Post Punk vs. New Wave
Can someone help explain to me if there is any difference between post punk and new wave? I don't think there is.

Now, I know that the both terms...
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Steve Hoffman Music Forums
Can someone help explain to me if there is any difference between post punk and new wave? I don't think there is.

Now, I know that the both terms could be considered meaningless since they've both been used as a catch-all in the past. And I also know some of these genre labels, if not all, were invented by the press or record executives who wanted to call the music something else so they could sell more. Finally, I also know that genres are essentially arbitrary for the purpose of organization but I'm interested in the differences, if there are any, as movements. Here's how I understand it:

Punk was a movement with its height in the mid seventies (around 76-77). Musically, it was largely a reaction against the elitism of rock and roll at the time and big indulgent rockstars playing stadiums and prog rock with virtuoso solos. So, it used the tradition of 1960's garage rock to emphasize simple stripped down music. However, as a movement, the idea was that you could reinvent yourself and thereby society in order to create something unique and artistic. At a certain point along that process though, there is an inherent existentialism where you ask questions like what's the point of all this (which is where you get songs like Richard Hell's who says it's good to be alive?). However, as a result, the music became very nihilistic and defeatist, thus marketing punk music to the audience a certain way and all the artists' creativity became stifled since they were essentially just self parodies at that point. And this is what led to the rise of post punk and/or new wave.

Therefore, post punk and/or new wave was in the punk tradition but was a reaction against being pigeon-holed into a certain image (hence Johnny Rotton leaves the sex pistols, goes back to his real name, and forms a band called public image ltd.)

But are post punk and new wave really different? If so, what was new wave really about? I've heard bands like PiL be labeled as new wave but everyone seems to use it as a term for the synthpop, new pop, and new romantic music that came out of the 1980's such as duran duran, the human league, etc. However, i just don't see the human league and PiL being in the same boat.

Any help is appreciated. Please feel free to discuss and correct me if I'm wrong about anything

Yes, you're right I know there is never going to be a clear cut answer. I just thought that I'd get some opinions to help make it clearer, especially from those who lived through it so thank you for your input

I don't think the B52s were packaged and molded, especially at the time of the first few albums. They may have been party music, but they were genuine and unique. I think their guitar player was as creative and influential as any of the post punk guitarists. I'd give those first couple of albums a good listen.

Post-punk was a term that was applied well after the fact by music writers to describe groups that were inspired by punk's burst of energy, but that had a more artistic edge. These bands were small "p" progressive in nature, generally not impressed with virtuosity, but wanting to take rock music to places it had not been before.

Maybe they weren't to the extent that I make it sound but I think that the B52s or even someone like Blondie weren't necessarily interested in the same things someone like PiL was and therefore shouldn't be categorized as such. I'm not saying they weren't genuine or unique, I just think that there should be a greater distinction. I'm also not saying that it can't be pop oriented or upbeat because I think someone like Elvis Costello would fit the bill with a song like "Radio Radio"

Correct. But a big part of that defeatism stemmed from the fact that fo example the UK had become a pretty grim place in the seventies, with stagflation and sky-high unemployment. Punk wasn’t just a reaction against overblown prog, but against everything that was wrong with Britain at the time. So the early punk bands put up the middle finger , both lyrically and musically. But you can only do that for so long before it gets boring. Hence the more creative bands started expanding their horizons.