Andrei Kirilenko
steelevt
Ok so your argument saying we can get top notch free agents is vlade divac?  Ok I will let that simmer in itself for a bit.  Either way ak not coming.  If...
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I don't know about this. How many options does he REALLY have? How many contenders have the cap room to sign him AND a starting SF spot... or a starting anything spot. He wants to start, right?

In the east, Chicago, Miami, Indiana, Boston, New York, and Philly all have SF locked up. That leaves .. Orlando, Milwaukee, Atlanta, and a bunch of other garbage teams as options for him. Orlando MIGHT have some cap room if they deal Dwight Howard, but then they would have less talent then we do. Atlanta doesn't have any cap room. I suppose the Bucks could be a threat. I'll just keep going .. Toronto won't have any room if they sign Nash. The Pistons have no room and they have Prince. The Nets have room, but they are up to other stuff. Cleveland could be an option. Washington just traded for a similar player in Ariza.

East options: Bucks, Orlando (if they deal Howard), Atlanta (if they deal Johnson), Nets (if they don't do anything they are reportedly trying to do), and Cleveland.

In the West, Spurs will have no room once they sign Duncan, and they have Leonard. OKC is a no. Lakers have no cap room. Memphis has Gay and no room. Clippers just traded for Odom and have Butler. Denver has Chander and Gallo. Utah has Hayward and not enough cap room, but I'll give them a maybe. I'll give Houston a maybe, but they have Parsons. Phoenix is possible, but they have Dudley on a good contract. Portland is possible if they lose Batum AND don't get Hibbert. Minni just traded for Budinger, and have offered Batum a big deal. Golden State is a no, and New Orleans is possible.

West Options: Utah (maybe), Houston (maybe), Phoenix, Portland (maybe), and New Orleans.

I think we have a good chance IF we put the money up AND we go after him early. A lot of these 'maybe' teams have a lot of other stuff going on that are making cap holds, where if we went after AK before the dust settles we may have an advantage.

That's the thing, we didn't have all this money in Dec which we don't now, and we were in discussions with AK then. In Dec the entire league could ahve gone after him yet it doesn't look like many did, and if reports are to be believed, it was down to us, NY and Russia. Well, he's now leaving CSKA, and NJ just signed a SF to a 40M deal, and are hard after Joe Johnson and Luis Scola, not to mention resigning Brooks, offering a max to DWill and targeting Eric Gordon.

People can say well a contender will just swoop in and offer him a decent deal, yet they could have done that 6 months ago, and none did. This sign and trade scenario is interesting with Utah as well as it could be less of a cap hit if we did trade with them and sent some pieces back. They also just got Mo Williams, extended Tinsley, and have 4 PG's on their roster, meaning it's pretty likely they're looking for someone to take Devin Harris off their books, and he might not be that bad of a fit for us. So sign and trade AK to us and get rid of Harris as well, and maybe they can get a guy like MT out of it. Add in Jimmer who I think they'd take the risk with due to marketing purposes. Who knows. There's a number of trade which have happened in this league which make you scratch your head. I never thought Atl would be able to move Joe Johnsons contract yet it seems they will, to NJ.

It's not likely obviously, but would it have been likely in Dec when looking at the landscape of the league that us and NJ would have been AK's final choices? No, and yet there we were.

Yes yes and Jimmer is going to light up the league. Heard it before. But my point was simply that Robinson will not rebound any better than Boozer...because Boozer was one of the best rebounders in the entire league, and basically an 11 reb a game guy during his time in Utah. TRob would do well to even get into that ballpark, and being paired with Cousins makes it virtually impossible he would do any better unless he's Rodman.

Oh come on. You know an elite rebounder in a major college conference is much different than a dynamite scorer in a much lesser conference. Rebounding is one of the skills that transfers the best from college to the NBA. No one expected Jimmer to light up the league. That is simply not a good comparison. Looking back at it, Boozer had been a bit of a better rebounder than I remembered. Still, you have to remember he was rebounding next to Mehmet freaking Okur, a 7 rebound per game guy. The amount of rebounds you get doesn't determine exactly how good of a rebounder you are. Next to Cousins, T-Rob likely won't put up 11-12 rpg averages. If he was playing next to Okur, I am positive he would at least be able to get to Boozer's averages and likely eclipse them. Again, the amount of rebounds you get doesn't necessarily determine how good of a rebounder you are.

Next to Cousins, T-Rob likely won't put up 11-12 rpg averages. If he was playing next to Okur, I am positive[/red] he would at least be able to get to Boozer's averages and likely eclipse them.

Yes, and probably leap tall buildings while he's at it. The normal wild enthusiasms around here going at it again. We drafted a strong college rebounder. Not a revolutionary one, but a very strong one. Historically that gives the guy a good chance to be a good NBA rebounder. But no, our somewhat undersized strong college rebounder is now guaranteed of being better than this:

Here was Boozer during that stretch:

09-10: Rebs: Rebs/48: 15.7 NBA rank: 5th (Howard, Camby, Dalembert, Blair)

08-09: Rebs: Rebs/48: 15.4 NBA rank: 7th (Howard, Pryzbilla, Love, Murphy, Dalembert, Lee)

07-08: Rebs: Rebs/48: 14.3 NBA rank: 20th (numerous)

06-07: Rebs: Rebs/48: 16.3 NBA rank: 5th (Mutumbo, Chandler, Foster, Camby)

Utah btw was one of the best rebounding teams of that era, ranking in reb differential 06-07: 1st; 07-08: t3rd; 08-09: t12th; 09-10: 5th. Meaning Boozer wasn't scooping up loose rebounds left laying there by weakling teammates. He was basically the best PF rebounder in the league before Love emerged.

So I stand by my statement. Good rebounder or not, TRob is not going to be better than Boozer was over those years with AK, and the general point of that statement was that even if we got AK to back up our non-shotblocking frontline, its an imperfect solution that still did not result in a great defensive team even under a hardnosed coach like Sloan.

Yes, and probably leap tall buildings while he's at it. The normal wild enthusiasms around here going at it again. We drafted a strong college rebounder. Not a revolutionary one, but a strong one. Historically that gives the guy a good chance to be a good NBA rebounder. But no, our somewhat undersized strong college rebounder is now guaranteed of being better than this:

Here was Boozer during that stretch:

09-10: Rebs: Rebs/48: 15.7 NBA rank: 5th (Howard, Camby, Dalembert, Blair)

08-09: Rebs: Rebs/48: 15.4 NBA rank: 7th (Howard, Pryzbilla, Love, Murphy, Dalembert, Lee)

07-08: Rebs: Rebs/48: 14.3 NBA rank: 20th (numerous)

06-07: Rebs: Rebs/48: 16.3 NBA rank: 5th (Mutumbo, Chandler, Foster, Camby)

Utah btw was one of the best rebounding teams of that era, ranking in reb differential 06-07: 1st; 07-08: t3rd; 08-09: t12th; 09-10: 5th. Meaning Boozer wasn't scooping up loose rebounds left laying there by weakling teammates.

So I stand by my statement. Good rebounder or not, TRob is not going to be better than Boozer was over those years with AK, and the general point of that statement was that even if we got AK to back up our non-shotblocking frontline, its an imperfect solution that still did not result in a great defensive team even under a hardnosed coach like Sloan.

Alright, well we will have to agree to disagree here then. I think Robinson will be at the level of Boozer in terms of rebounding and possibly better. Obviously, you think that is his ceiling.

Robinson put up better rebounding #s in college for sure. In his junior year, Boozer put up 14.7 rebounds/48. Robinson put up 18 rebounds/48 his junior year. Sophomore year, Boozer put up 12.2/48 while Robinson put up 21/48. You really think it is that surprising to think that he can move on to be a better rebounder considering he was definitely a better rebounder in college?

I'm not sure what "somewhat undersized" has to do with rebounding considering many of the top rebounders that have been around the league are at least "somewhat undersized". Being slightly undersized can be beneficial with rebounding, ESPECIALLY when you have a freakish 7'4" wingspan to go along with it that rivals players who are over 7 feet.

Also, if you think I am one of the people who would have "the normal wild enthusiasm", you don't know me well enough.

Alright, well we will have to agree to disagree here then. I think Robinson will be at the level of Boozer in terms of rebounding and possibly better. Obviously, you think that is his ceiling.

Robinson put up better rebounding #s in college for sure. In his junior year, Boozer put up 14.7 rebounds/48. Robinson put up 18 rebounds/48 his junior year. Sophomore year, Boozer put up 12.2/48 while Robinson put up 21/48. You really think it is that surprising to think that he can move on to be a better rebounder considering he was definitely a better rebounder in college?

I'm not sure what "somewhat undersized" has to do with rebounding considering many of the top rebounders that have been around the league are at least "somewhat undersized". Being slightly undersized can be beneficial with rebounding, ESPECIALLY when you have a freakish 7'4" wingspan to go along with it that rivals players who are over 7 feet.

Also, if you think I am one of the people who would have "the normal wild enthusiasm", you don't know me well enough.

He's just saying that Boozer in his prime was an elite rebounder. Saying Robinson is going to be a better than elite rebounder is pushing it. If he can just duplicate Boozer's prime rebounding numbers, he'll be one of the best rebounders in the league. I believe Robinson can be a 10RPG guy, but lets not go overboard before his first game.

It's going to be fun watching Cousins rack up all the offensive rebounds and Robinson rack up all the defensive rebounds. If we can resign JT, we're going to be one of the best rebounding teams out there. Hayes is no slouch on the boards either. I just hope this translates into more buckets for us and less for opposing teams. Hopefully its not just some empty stat we can hang our hat on after another crappy year.

Alright, well we will have to agree to disagree here then. I think Robinson will be at the level of Boozer in terms of rebounding and possibly better. Obviously, you think that is his ceiling.

Robinson put up better rebounding #s in college for sure. In his junior year, Boozer put up 14.7 rebounds/48. Robinson put up 18 rebounds/48 his junior year. Sophomore year, Boozer put up 12.2/48 while Robinson put up 21/48. You really think it is that surprising to think that he can move on to be a better rebounder considering he was definitely a better rebounder in college?

I'm not sure what "somewhat undersized" has to do with rebounding considering many of the top rebounders that have been around the league are at least "somewhat undersized". Being slightly undersized can be beneficial with rebounding, ESPECIALLY when you have a freakish 7'4" wingspan to go along with it that rivals players who are over 7 feet.

Also, if you think I am one of the people who would have "the normal wild enthusiasm", you don't know me well enough.

Boozer and Robinson are exactly the same size in their bare feet. I can't speak for the thickness of the shoes they each wear, but I would assume that their height is very similiar in shoes. Both have excellent standing reach, with Robinson having an advantage in max reach with his vertical max at 35" as opposed to Boozers 28".

He's just saying that Boozer in his prime was an elite rebounder. Saying Robinson is going to be a better than elite rebounder is pushing it. If he can just duplicate Boozer's prime rebounding numbers, he'll be one of the best rebounders in the league. I believe Robinson can be a 10RPG guy, but lets not go overboard before his first game.

It's going to be fun watching Cousins rack up all the offensive rebounds and Robinson rack up all the defensive rebounds. If we can resign JT, we're going to be one of the best rebounding teams out there. Hayes is no slouch on the boards either. I just hope this translates into more buckets for us and less for opposing teams. Hopefully its not just some empty stat we can hang our hat on after another crappy year.

Robinson was the best defensive rebounder in college, and there were plenty of defensive rebounds to be had if you remember all the second chance points other teams had against us. Improving in the defensive rebound part of the game could mean the difference of 4 to 6 pt's a game that other team didn't get, and perhaps 2 to 4 pt's that we did get. That alone could be a swing of 4 to 8 pts a game in our favor, and could mean the difference in winning games we lost last season. Stop giving the other team extra possessions, and your points allowed should go down.

With everything going on in NJ where they can't even offer AK the mid level anymore, and in Utah where they just added Marvin Williams and are very high on Haywood, it'd really be great if we turned all our attention to AK. We were apparently close in Dec, and our two main competitors don't seem to have a real chance right now. We've already made our offer to JT so all we can really do is sit and wait, and I'd also think if JT saw us going after a SF in AK instead of another PF in Anderson it increases the chances he might resign.

Still hopeful. To me it seems there's an opportunity there waiting to be jumped on and both AK and Anderson are probably looking for similar money, so if we're talking to Anderson and willing to pay the 8M+ it would most likely take to get him(with the threat Orl matches), why not just instead concentrate on a player who could help us more than either Anderson or JT imo? And I have no problem meeting with Anderson, just hope we also are hard after AK.