[12:06] <segfault> jordi: pong
[12:07] <lifeless> LarstiQ: dunno
[12:09] <LarstiQ> lifeless: ok, I'll see if I can find some documentation
[12:14] <LarstiQ> https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/BranchActivityVisualization is the closest I get to having activity explained
[12:26] <lifeless> LarstiQ: yah, but thats not per product :)
[12:27] <LarstiQ> lifeless: right, and I also found activity reports on https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/LaunchpadTeamFAQ. Completely different, although interesting.
[12:27] <lifeless> :)
[12:27] <lifeless> you can see one of those in the bzr list archives
[12:28] <LarstiQ> lifeless: yes, I remember that one
[12:28] <LarstiQ> and Martin's reaction to it ;)
[12:42] <jordi> segfault: we need to talk. There are way too many split files. Maybe we can do something.
[12:51] <segfault> jordi: sure! can you tell me how? :)
[12:59] <carlos> jordi, yes, one potemplate can be moved from the +admin page but only by you or any Rosetta admin
[01:01] <carlos> night!
[01:01] <Kinnison> night carlos
[01:07] <Kinnison> What's the right way to flush the sqlobject cache?
[01:07] <Kinnison> and subsequently what's the right way to get python to GC the objects?
[01:08] <Kinnison> This is actually kinda important I think
[01:10] <spiv> Kinnison: flush_database_caches from canonical.database.sqlbase
[01:11] <spiv> Kinnison: Although, can you explain a little more about why you need this?
[01:11] <spiv> And why do you care about when objects are GCed?
[01:11] <Kinnison> spiv: because the domination in the publisher uses ca. 900M *per distrorelease*
[01:11] <Kinnison> 900M of sodding sqlobjects
[01:12] <Kinnison> hmm, perhaps 600M
[01:12] <Kinnison> No, 900
[01:12] <spiv> Ok.  To get Python to GC objects, just make sure you don't have any references to objects you don't need.
[01:12] <spiv> And don't define __del__ :)
[01:12] <Kinnison> so flushing the db cache should do the trick?
[01:12] <Kinnison> and python will gc merrily from there?
[01:12] <spiv> Perhaps.
[01:12] <spiv> Depends on if you have any other references to them :)
[01:13] <Kinnison> well, I'm not keeping 'em around
[01:13] <Kinnison> if there are cycles what will python do?
[01:13] <spiv> It will merrily collect them.
[01:13] <Kinnison> good, I know perl won't
[01:13] <Kinnison> because it's shit
[01:13] <spiv> *Unless* you have __del__, in which case they'll probably end up in gc.garbage instead.
[01:13] <Kinnison> do sqlobjects have __del__ ?
[01:14] <spiv> Nope.
[01:15] <spiv> SQLObject does define it on connections iirc, but that shouldn't matter.
[01:15] <spiv> Btw, how do you know that that 900MB is sqlobjects?
[01:16] <Kinnison> Well, I'm assuming it is
[01:16] <spiv> Ah :)
[01:16] <spiv> You're probably right.
[01:16] <Kinnison> because if it's not, I don't see what it can be
[01:16] <Kinnison> since the code is essentially
[01:16] <spiv> But just to make sure, take a look at http://twistedmatrix.com/users/spiv/countrefs.py
[01:16] <Kinnison> for some_sql_object in gigantic_select_result:
[01:16] <Kinnison>    do_stuff(some_sql_object)
[01:17] <SteveA> spiv: we'd need to totally stop the sqlobject cache from running i think
[01:17] <Kinnison> it's too scary
[01:17] <spiv> SteveA: That may be possible.
[01:18] <spiv> Kinnison: Also, if flushing the cache is inadequate, gc.get_referrers(some_object_I_thought_should_be_gced) may be helpful.
[01:18] <Kinnison> spiv: doesn't that kinda imply keeping a reference to it to check?
[01:18] <spiv> Kinnison: Well, that's the trick ;)
[01:19] <spiv> Kinnison: Either find the object the same way countrefs.py does (by crawling over gc.get_objects()), or keep a weakref to an object you suspect isn't gc'd.
[01:20] <spiv> You can force a gc run with gc.collect(), btw, but that's almost certain to make no difference -- by default it runs pretty frequently already.
[01:22] <Kinnison> Okay, a distrorelease is actually taking closer to 1.2G
[01:27] <Kinnison> b
[01:28] <Nafallo> Kinnison: tired? :-)
[01:29] <Kinnison> annoyed with sqlobject mostly
[01:29] <Nafallo> oki
[01:29] <Kinnison> takes it ages to flush its cache and that in itself doesn't appear to have helped a great deal
[01:30] <Kinnison> In fact, regardless of how much sqlobjects there are, it really seems to hammer the cache
[01:30] <Kinnison> I.E. taking upwards of 30 CPU seconds to empty a cache of the security pocket's sources
[01:30] <Kinnison> this is bad
[01:31] <spiv> Kinnison: in theory adding cache=False to the connectionURI for the database should help.
[01:31] <Nafallo> that does not sound healthy indeed
[01:31] <Kinnison> spiv: how do I do that?
[01:31] <spiv> But that code appears to be buggy.  Hmm.
[01:31] <Kinnison> txn = initZopeless( dbuser='lucille' )
[01:31] <spiv> Kinnison: by abusing dbname ;)
[01:31] <spiv> But let's not do that.
[01:32] <Kinnison> Why would flushing the cache take so long?
[01:32] <Kinnison> unless it's not really flushing the cache and is just calling .sync() on all the objects in it
[01:33] <Kinnison> argh
[01:33] <Kinnison> that's exactly what it's doing
[01:33] <Kinnison> useless
[01:34] <spiv> Kinnison: try "Person._connection.cache.kw['cache']  = False" at the very start of your transaction.
[01:35] <spiv> (s/Person/any convenient sqlobject/ if you like)
[01:35] <Kinnison> AttributeError: 'NullCache' object has no attribute 'kw'
[01:36] <spiv> Hah.
[01:38] <Kinnison> very odd
[01:43] <spiv> Kinnison: Hmm.
[01:43] <spiv> Kinnison: If you're seeing a NullCache, you must be doing that too soon.
[01:44] <spiv> Kinnison: Are you using zopeless? with or without implicitBegin?
[01:46] <user__> Ahoy
[01:46] <Kinnison> zopeless with
[01:48] <spiv> Kinnison: Odd.   And yet Person._connection is a NullConnection?
[01:50] <Kinnison> spiv: not entirely sure
[01:50] <Kinnison> I think .cache was a NullCache
[01:50] <Kinnison> calling SQLBase.flush_database_updates()
[01:50] <Kinnison> then SQLBase._clearCache()
[01:50] <Kinnison> then gc.collect()
[01:50] <Kinnison> keeps the RAM usage at a steady half-gig
[01:50] <spiv> Which is still huge.
[01:50] <Kinnison> instead of climbing into the 3.5g range
[01:51] <Kinnison> each gc.collect() is collecting ca 200,000 objects
[01:51] <spiv> Also, _clearCache is always called when you start a new transaction.
[01:51] <Kinnison> this is mid-transaction
[01:51] <spiv> Ah.
[01:51] <Kinnison> I already had some txn.commit()s in there
[01:51] <Kinnison> which reduced it from >4G==explode to 3.5G==goslow
[01:52] <Kinnison> DEBUG:Dominator:Performing domination across hoary/Release (i386)
[01:52] <Kinnison> DEBUG:Dominator:Sorting binaries...
[01:52] <Kinnison> DEBUG:Dominator:Dominating binaries...
[01:52] <Kinnison> DEBUG:Dominator:Flushing SQLObject cache.
[01:52] <Kinnison> DEBUG:Dominator:GC.Collect()
[01:52] <Kinnison> DEBUG:Dominator:Returned: 244005
[01:52] <Kinnison> yay for sqlobject
[01:52] <spiv> The right answer is to set the cache=False on the Cache.
[01:52] <Kinnison> but that'll make each domination much slower
[01:52] <Kinnison> won't it?
[01:52] <spiv> Well, maybe.
[01:52] <spiv> Maybe not.
[01:52] <spiv> It still keeps weakrefs.
[01:53] <spiv> So depending on other code, it may still be able to return the objects.
[01:53] <spiv> And how often are your queries returning the same object, anyway?
[01:53] <Kinnison> foo.bar
[01:54] <spiv> But it's very weird that you're getting a NullCache, but that _clearCache works.
[01:54] <spiv> Because they're accessing the same attribute.
[01:54] <spiv> I guess try s/Person/SQLBase/ to narrow it down.
[01:55] <spiv> Hmm, or do an explicit txn.begin(), perhaps...
[01:56] <Kinnison> for now
[01:56] <Kinnison> we can look at it together in montreal
[01:58] <spiv> Ok.
[01:58] <spiv> I would like to understand what's going on here.
[01:59] <spiv> So I'll corner you in Montreal.
[02:00] <Kinnison> cool
[02:00] <Kinnison> in the meantime, for the first time in days, a publisher run on staging will complete
[02:00] <spiv> 500MB is still huge, though.
[02:01] <spiv> We'll figure it out in Montreal... there are a couple too many mysteries here :)
[02:01] <Kinnison> aye
[02:01] <Kinnison> almost certainly all my fault
[02:31] <Kinnison> Hmm, 11 minutes to do a full publishing run now
[02:31] <Kinnison> much better than before
[02:57] <Kinnison> hey stubbaroony
[03:46] <Kinnison> ciao all
[10:14] <BjornT> stub: is production running a baz branch? that is, if i want you to cherry pick something, should i branch off the production branch?
[10:14] <stub> BjornT: production is currently running a baz branch
[10:15] <BjornT> stub: which branch?
[10:15] <stub> launchpad--production--1.38
[10:41] <BjornT> stub: when adding some sample data and running make newsampledata, i get >1Mb diff... any ideas of what could be wrong?
[10:42] <stub> I've seen that happen before. No idea why it does that. IIRC newsampledata is supposed to be doing some sorting to minimize that sort of stuff.
[10:43] <carlos> BjornT, usually it implies new fields additions
[10:43] <carlos> BjornT, someone added new fields but no new sampledata was added so with your export you update those tables
[10:45] <BjornT> carlos: no, that's not it
[10:46] <carlos> BjornT, then there are two more options
[10:46] <BjornT> it seems like make newsampledata decided that all tables should be in alphabetical order, which wasn't the case before
[10:46] <carlos> 1.- If the diff has case changes, someone did a manual addition to the sampledata (IMHO is a bad way to add it)
[10:46] <carlos> oh
[10:46] <carlos> that's new
[11:30] <zyga> carlos: hi
[11:30] <zyga> carlos: I've created #ubuntu-hardware, who should I contact to put this into topic line at #ubuntu
[11:30] <carlos> zyga, don't know, perhaps jdub
[11:31] <zyga> carlos: thanks, I'll try
[12:04] <cprov> morning guys
[12:35] <Kinnison> Who here is going to UBZ flying tomorrow on BA95 from LHR->YUL 17:25 -> 19:25 ?
[01:00] <BjornT> stub: sent you a cherry pick request
[01:06] <matsubara> good morning!
[01:09] <Kinnison> Okay, so I have a bzr branch of launchpad
[01:09] <Kinnison> I've done some work in it
[01:09] <Kinnison> and I want to push those changes to chinstrap
[01:09] <Kinnison> how do I do that?
[01:12] <siretart> hi
[01:13] <siretart> I've sent a feature request for being able to close malone bugs via debian/changelog, but havn't heard any response yet :( - did you overlook me or is this way to hard to implement or way to low priority?
[01:14] <Kinnison> It's currently low priority I imagine
[01:14] <Kinnison> We'll certainly be looking into that though
[01:14] <siretart> okay. thanks for considering
[01:38] <LarstiQ> Kinnison: does something like 'bzr push chinstrap:/home/warthogs/archives/$yourusername/launchpad/branch-name' work?
[01:38] <LarstiQ> Kinnison: (shamelessly stolen from https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/MoveToBazNG)
[01:39] <LarstiQ> ssh chinstrap mkdir -p /home/warthogs/archives/$yourusername/launchpad
[01:39] <LarstiQ> ;)
[01:41] <Kinnison> aye
[01:41] <LarstiQ> Kinnison: did you get it to work now?
[01:42] <Kinnison> aye
[01:42] <LarstiQ> sweet
[02:42] <lifeless> stub: ping
[02:47] <stub> lifeless: pong
[02:48] <lifeless> stub: why did you need to use trunk? I used the rollouts stuff with jamesh successfully yesterday
[02:50] <stub> lifeless: Mirroring branches with rsync to make branches locally
[02:53] <stub> lifeless: I was about to commit a modern refuel script that creates local mirrors of branches using rsync, allowing you to update and build trees much quicker.
[02:54] <lifeless> stub: well, three thoughts
[02:54] <lifeless> stub: firstly, make sure .bzr/parent is set correctly.
[02:55] <lifeless> stub: secondly, tree *building* should be a once per developer and install activity. After that it should be pull/merge/pull --overwrite.
[02:56] <stub> lifeless: I have several trees open at a time in general and find I'm building trees quite often
[02:57] <lifeless> stub: so, cp -a between them - thats fully supported
[02:57] <stub> lifeless: Yup. But update is painful
[02:57] <lifeless> stub: but there should be no need for full builds, in general.
[02:57] <lifeless> stub: update of the nested trees ?
[02:58] <stub> rsynced trees seem quite servicable to me. What is the issue?
[02:58] <lifeless> its doable, no particular issue. But you need to run revert in every tree, as I explained. in email.
[02:59] <lifeless> also it seems ugly that rsync is needed, martin and I hope to make non rsync performance as good or better for 0.7
[03:01] <stub> lifeless: Sure. This is just a temporary measure.
[03:02] <stub> lifeless: But until then building a tree remotely is just impractical
[03:02] <lifeless> stub: note that I have not said 'dont do it'
[03:02] <lifeless> just raised some thoughts
[03:03] <stub> Any hints on how to use bzrlib to do a revert?
[03:03] <lifeless> yah, look in bzrlib/builtins.py and cargo cult from cmd_revert
[03:04] <lifeless> SteveA: comign down ?
[03:05] <SteveA> sure.  have you had breakfast yet?
[03:05] <lifeless> yes
[03:05] <lifeless> we're starting work :)
[03:05] <SteveA> successfully?
[03:05] <stub> Ahh.... bzrlib.branch.Branch.revert might be a start
[03:05] <lifeless> no
[03:17] <kiko> SteveA, coming down too
[03:42] <SteveA> hi stub.
[03:42] <stub> SteveA: hi
[03:42] <SteveA> lifeless / stub: the 'trivial, steve's spec hacks in production' email from pqm seemed to include a LOT of stuff
[03:43] <SteveA> stub: do you know what the problem with your address and shipit is?
[03:44] <stub> Too many lines, lines too long. I got it in my abusing the organization field. But the issues outlined remain.
[03:45] <SteveA> i don't think "we're losing orders because of this" is a convincing enough argument on its own
[03:45] <SteveA> is there a way we can ask people "are you having problems entering your address into our system?"
[03:46] <SteveA> salgado /  mpt: what do you think?
[03:47] <mpt> Something like "If you think ShipIt should accept addresses like this, __report this as a bug__"?
[03:48] <mpt> where the link automagically squirts the address into the Description field of the bug report? :-)
[03:48] <stub> Oh. My main issue would be why the hell are we bending over backwards to meet the demands of a company we are pumping millions of euros through when they should be the ones meeting our requirements and asking if we would like a blow job with that?
[03:50] <stub> ASCII only, no commas, very restrictive fields. I recall the encoding issues gave mako a lot of headaches, and the ascii names have already given us grief.
[03:51] <mpt> so the company's using CSV, huh
[03:51] <SteveA> using *shitty* csv
[03:52] <mpt> We could convert commas to semicolons behind the scenes, I don't think anyone would mind
[03:52] <salgado> mpt, I already do that
[03:52] <SteveA> i thought we already did that
[03:52] <mpt> so did I
[03:52] <SteveA> so stub is saying, why can't the shippiing company
[03:52] <mpt> ok
[03:52] <lifeless> SteveA: yes, and to add insult, pqm died after sending the email, before completing the push
[03:53] <SteveA> whither transactions?
[03:53] <lifeless> the failure was during sending the mail
[03:54] <lifeless> 'mail' considered the pipe closing to be 'please send.'
[03:54] <SteveA> ah
[03:54] <lifeless> ascii codec, failure to encode, ordinal not in range.
[03:57] <SteveA> stub: jdub wants to hassle you
[03:57] <jdub> HEY STUB!
[03:58] <jdub> SteveA said i should bug you about me being JeffWaugh2 on the wiki
[03:58] <SteveA> screw you hippy
[03:58] <SteveA> i'm channeling stub here
[03:59] <SteveA> spiv: hello
[03:59] <SteveA> spiv: can we talk about some minor moin integration stuff?
[04:00] <stub> jdub: What do you log in as? The DB says username jdub's wikiname is JeffWaugh
[04:01] <SteveA> lifeless: the load on chinstrap goes up to 11
[04:01] <lifeless> actually, it goes up to 200
[04:01] <lifeless> but we're being nice to it right now
[04:01] <SteveA> but 11 is louder
[04:01] <stub> And JeffWaugh2 is owned by an atavism from an account merge
[04:06] <elmo> kiko, you slack jawed hippy, what's your launchpad ID?
[04:07] <lifeless> kiko
[04:07] <jdub> stub: but on the wiki, i'm logged in as JeffWaugh2
[04:07] <elmo> no, numerically
[04:07] <uws> heya jdub sign my gpg key! :P
[04:07] <stub> (21:00:24) stub: jdub: What do you log in as? The DB says username jdub's wikiname is JeffWaugh
[04:08] <lifeless> elmo: numerically, he wont know, its in person.id
[04:09] <lifeless> elmo: you have db access ?
[04:09] <elmo> I have root, that doesn't mean I go around running SQL queries on the production DB for giggles
[04:10] <stub> 1387, although I'd love to know what that is being used for apart from an internal database key?
[04:10] <jdub> stub: yes, in launchpad, it just says JeffWaugh. when i log in to the wiki as<EMAIL_ADDRESS>the wiki user is JeffWaugh2
[04:11] <lifeless> elmo: well, you could ask 'staging' the query, which is where stub does most of his adhoc stuff, IRRC>
[04:11] <stub> jdub: That is very wierd. That email address is linked to JeffWaugh
[04:11] <elmo> stub: moin
[04:12] <stub> elmo: oh... the perferences cache? I see.
[04:13] <elmo> well not so much a cache as a data store, but yeah
[04:13] <stub> jdub: The database is correct. I think you need to hassle spiv, or maybe those files elmo is poking in right now have the answer.
[04:14] <stub> (Jeff is 6727)
[04:16] <LarstiQ> uws: tsk
[04:23] <elmo> I think you want spiv first, as it's not obvious how id maps to name, and the code to do it is square in the middle of stuff he patched
[04:23] <elmo> kiko: as for yours, your account doesn't say disabled...
[04:25] <elmo> kiko: as for yours, your account doesn't say disabled...
[04:26] <kiko> elmo, that's odd, but it is disabled. I can't log in at least.
[04:38] <spiv> elmo: The file name in moin for a user should be the launchpad ID, I think.
[04:39] <elmo> spiv: yes, it is
[04:39] <elmo> spiv: I more meant the mapping of launchpad ID -> wiki User Name
[04:40] <spiv> Oh, right.
[04:40] <spiv> That's from the database -- the query stub would have done earlier would be right.
[04:41] <spiv> i.e. select wikiname from wikiname where person = X and wiki = 'http://whatever';
[04:42] <stub> Which gives JeffWaugh, not JeffWaugh2
[04:42] <spiv> Moin asks the authserver for that info, and it does (essentially) that query.
[04:43] <spiv> The authserver says<EMAIL_ADDRESS>has a wikiname of JeffWaugh.
[04:44] <kiko> spiv, mine is ChristianReis, right?
[04:45] <spiv> kiko: right
[04:46] <mpt> Who's<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[04:46] <kiko> mpt, someone who used to work with us
[04:46] <spiv> jdub: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JeffWaugh?action=info shows "JeffWaugh" in the edit history.
[04:47] <spiv> jdub: Where are you seeing the string JeffWaugh2?
[04:47] <mpt> They're the ancestor of all my branches
[04:47] <jdub> spiv: moin
[04:47] <jdub> oh, hold on
[04:47] <spiv> jdub: Be more specific, please :P
[04:47] <kiko> mpt, have you asked lifeless?
[04:47] <mpt> kiko, it seems to be working fine, I was just wondering
[04:48] <jdub> spiv: yeah, sec :)
[04:48] <jdub> spiv: hrm, i'll bug you when i see it
[04:49] <spiv> Heh.
[04:49] <kiko> mpt, sounds like a bug to me but..
[04:50] <spiv> I'll just assume that means jdub can't reproduce his problem ;)
[04:50] <mpt> ok, lifeless: ping
[04:51] <kiko> I can however, spiv :)
[04:51] <spiv> kiko: Does that mean you have a URL for me? :)
[04:53] <LarstiQ> mpt: Lalo Martins?
[05:00] <jamesh> spiv: pending-reviews/ doesn't currently URL-decode the %2F in your branch name
[05:01] <spiv> jamesh: I wondered about that... I couldn't remember if the @ confused it or not.
[05:02] <spiv> jamesh: Although, %2f is slightly more correct, isn't it?
[05:04] <jamesh> spiv: the '@' did confuse it at one point, but doesn't now
[05:07] <kiko> spiv, well, I can' t log in to the wiki, period.
[05:07] <jamesh> spiv: if you're done with your baz branches, you can move the contents of the<EMAIL_ADDRESS>directory up one level too
[05:07] <LarstiQ> kiko: do you get an error?
[05:08] <spiv> kiko: Using your launchpad login?
[05:08] <kiko> spiv, yep
[05:08] <spiv> (i.e. logging in as "kiko" not "ChristianReis")
[05:08] <spiv> (or with your email address)
[05:08] <kiko> spiv, as<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[05:09] <spiv> That should work.
[05:09] <spiv> Do you have access to macquarie?
[05:09] <kiko> spiv, I /think/ I once clicked on "disable my account forever"  because a user had done it and I wanted to reproduce
[05:09] <kiko> spiv, no, I don't
[05:09] <spiv> Oh.
[05:09] <kiko> and in fact I lost it forever
[05:09] <spiv> Heh.
[05:10] <jamesh> kiko: create a new launchpad account, merge your existing one into it, and use that ...
[05:10] <spiv> That option probably needs to die.
[05:10] <jamesh> that'll get a new user ID
[05:10] <kiko> no
[05:10] <jamesh> no?
[05:11] <kiko> that option should be nuked AND all disabled accounts should be reenabled
[05:11] <spiv> kiko: re-enabling that needs elmo or someone else with direct access to wiki files.
[05:11] <kiko> spiv, elmo is a step away from me
[05:12] <elmo> it's not disabled
[05:12] <kiko> but he apparently said that my account isn' t disabled
[05:12] <kiko> right
[05:12] <jamesh> kiko: he might have been looking at your pre-launchpad user ID
[05:13] <spiv> elmo: you checked file 1387?
[05:14] <elmo> root@palmer:/srv/wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/www/data/user # grep disabled 1387
[05:14] <elmo> disabled=0
[05:14] <spiv> Hmm.
[05:14] <kiko> hmmm
[05:15] <kiko> hey stub, did you get my email?
[05:15] <spiv> kiko: Hmm.
[05:15] <stub> eh?
[05:17] <kiko> stub, the one I sent yesterday, on gina?
[05:17] <spiv> kiko: On chinstrap, could you fire up a python prompt, and do: >>> import xmlrpclib; s = xmlrpclib.Server('http://macquarie:8999/v2'); print<EMAIL_ADDRESS>'xxx')
[05:17] <stub> i rolled out a patch of yours on staging and fired off a gina run
[05:17] <spiv> kiko: Only, with your actual password ;)
[05:17] <spiv> And tell me if it returns an empty dictionary or not.
[05:18] <kiko> stub, you /rock/
[05:18] <kiko> whee
[05:18] <kiko> spiv, let me try.
[05:19] <kiko> spiv, it returns my data correctly.
[05:19] <kiko> {'wikiname': 'ChristianReis', 'emailaddresses'<EMAIL_ADDRESS><EMAIL_ADDRESS>, 'displayname': 'Christian Reis', 'id': 1387, 'teams': [{'displayname': 'Ubuntu Drivers', 'id': 322877, 'name': 'ubuntu-drivers'}, {'displayname': 'Christian Reis', 'id': 1387, 'name': 'kiko'}, {'displayname': 'Launchpad Developers', 'id': 15158, 'name': 'launchpad'}, {'displayname': 'Launchpad Administrators', 'id': 2794, 'name': 'admins'}, {'displayname': 'ShipIt
[05:19] <kiko> Administrators', 'id': 243601, 'name': 'shipit-admins'}] }
[05:19] <spiv> Ok, so the authserver end is working just fine.
[05:19] <spiv> So the problem must be in moin somewhere.
[05:20] <kiko> yeah, I knew it was because I can log in to any other wiki
[05:21] <kiko> I think the issue is related to what I suggested before
[05:21] <kiko> but.. I don't know for sure.
[05:21] <spiv> Weird.
[05:21] <spiv> I didn't realise it was just the one moin.  That's doubly weird.
[05:21] <spiv> elmo: maybe diff kiko's moin user file from a working wiki?
[05:21] <spiv> kiko: You're seeing "Sorry, wrong password", or something else?
[05:22] <kiko> Sorry, wrong password.
[05:23] <spiv> elmo: is there a "valid=0" in kiko's user file?  (there should be no valid=foo line at all, but who knows...)
[05:29] <elmo> spiv: no, valid=0, and diff to a random other ID looks sane
[05:29] <elmo> http://people.ubuntu.com/~james/tmp/1387
[05:30] <spiv> elmo: thanks
[05:31] <spiv> Yeah, certainly looks sane.
[05:31] <spiv> kiko: I've got *no* idea.  Must be a browser bug ;)
[05:31] <spiv> The user code in moin is pretty horrible, but I can't see how it's horrible enough to muck that up.
[05:32] <kiko> spiv, you are very funny
[05:32] <spiv> Well, it is considerably past my bedtime :)
[05:32] <jamesh> kiko: maybe you shouldn't have logged out forever
[05:36] <kiko> jamesh, maybe not. I was trying to help verify a problem a user reported.
[05:37] <spiv> Anyway, the patch to remove that option should be a simple one-liner (delete the obvious line from MoinMoin/user.py:User._checkbox_fields), but I'm not going to trust my testing of that at this time of night.
[05:43] <lifeless> SteveA: ping
[05:43] <lifeless> SteveA: can we get the lp test runner to not buffer everything until the end ?
[05:44] <lifeless> SteveA: for pqm.
[05:47] <Kinnison> my merge was "Terminated"
[05:47] <Kinnison> I assume by pqm
[05:47] <lifeless> I dont know what that means
[05:48] <Kinnison> Well, I sent off a merge
[05:48] <Kinnison> it failed
[05:48] <SteveA> lifeless: the point of that originally was to give no output on success, and only output on failure, because the test suite was too darn noisy.
[05:48] <SteveA> now it is much less noisy
[05:48] <Kinnison> The end of the log was :
[05:48] <Kinnison> make: *** [check_merge]  Terminated
[05:48] <lifeless> oh, I stomped on a merge
[05:49] <lifeless> there was a bug I needed to correct that would have cuased a later failure.
[05:49] <Kinnison> Oh
[05:50] <kiko> stub, where are the logs going?
[05:50] <stub> kiko: Same place as always
[05:50] <Kinnison> certainly speeds up the subsequent push
[05:50] <lifeless> Kinnison: read the MoveToBazNG page
[05:50] <Keybuk> ...hmm, my Karma has been stuck on 69 for ages
[05:50] <Keybuk> why do I think someone's hardcoded that
[05:50] <kiko> stub, /srv... right?
[05:50] <Kinnison> lifeless: erm, perdon?
[05:51] <lifeless> Kinnison: its documented
[05:51] <Kinnison> oh right
[05:51] <LarstiQ> Kinnison: no reason, no reason at all
[05:51] <stub>  /srv/launchpad.ubuntu.com/gina-logs
[05:51] <Kinnison> LarstiQ: whowhat?!
[05:52] <LarstiQ> argh
[05:52] <LarstiQ> s/Kinnison/Keybuk/
[05:52] <LarstiQ> Kinnison: sorry!
[05:57] <SteveA> lifeless: https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/AssertionsInLaunchpad  btw
[05:59] <lifeless> yah
[06:00] <lifeless> I had read that
[06:00] <lifeless> and it doth not say 'in tests, do /donot'
[06:00] <SteveA> yes
[06:01] <SteveA> you should update it, or get someone else to do so, when this is all agreed
[06:17] <stub> lifeless: Will brads merge fail? The pqm message is different to the others (no sftp)
[06:17] <stub> I just documented 'setting the parent' in the rsync recipe
[06:29] <salgado> how big is a launchpad tree with all dependencies in bzr?
[06:31] <lifeless> stub: yes, it will fail
[06:31] <lifeless> bradb: ^^^
[06:37] <stub> bzr: ERROR: 'ascii' codec can't encode characters in position 25-26: ordinal not in range(128)
[06:37] <stub>   command: '/usr/bin/bzr' 're-sign' '-r' '1681..'
[06:37] <stub>       pwd: u'/home/stub/tmp/da'
[06:37] <stub>     error: exceptions.UnicodeEncodeError
[06:37] <stub>   at /usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/bzrlib/testament.py line 168, in as_short_text()
[06:37] <stub>   see ~/.bzr.log for debug information
[06:37] <stub> lifeless: Trying to resign one of my branches
[06:39] <lifeless> stub: grah
[06:39] <lifeless> stub: what bzr are you running ?
[06:39] <stub> 23:39:21~/lp/da $ bzr --version
[06:39] <stub> bzr (bazaar-ng) 0.6pre
[06:39] <stub> jbaileys
[06:40] <stub> I can reinstall integration from source easily enough
[06:40] <lifeless> stub: can you file a bug, with the backtrace from bzr.log
[06:40] <stub> Where are bugs filed? Launchpad?
[06:40] <lifeless> bzr - malone
[07:02] <lifeless> stub: so, please try with integration
[07:05] <lifeless> stub: also, what was the problem with rollouts ?
[07:05] <stub> rollouts?
[07:05] <lifeless> you emailed saying you could not use the rollouts bzr
[07:05] <SteveA> mpt: ping
[07:06] <stub> Oh. Erm. I forget :-(
[07:06] <stub> cm.py was hanging trying to get the first bzr branch (hct I think). Using the head of the integration branch fixed it.
[07:18] <stub> lifeless: dies at the same place
[07:40] <salgado> lifeless, ping
[07:41] <salgado> so, I was running "cm.py build configs/configs/canonical.com/launchpad/development
[07:41] <salgado> " for more than 20 hours when we had a power outage. how can I resume that?
[07:42] <bradb> salgado: dude, run that on chinstrap
[07:42] <bradb> it'll be done in under an hour, IIRC (like, a lot under an hour IIRC)
[07:44] <salgado> bradb, thanks dude. I thought I've seen someone saying some requirement for that wasn't installed on chinstrap
[07:45] <salgado> looks like I got it wrong. :-(
[07:45] <bradb> yeah, that was me :) lifeless installed bzr
[07:45] <bradb> so, the instructions for doing it remotely should work fine now
[07:46] <salgado> bradb, not really. :-(
[07:46] <salgado> cm.py build configs/configs/canonical.com/launchpad/development
[07:46] <salgado> Traceback (most recent call last):
[07:46] <salgado>   File "/usr/local/bin/cm.py", line 21, in ?
[07:46] <salgado>     from config_manager import main
[07:46] <salgado> ImportError: No module named config_manager
[07:46] <salgado> did you run it there?
[07:46] <bradb> i ran the instructions verbatim
[07:47] <salgado> oh, okay. the instructions on MoveToBazNG are different
[07:47] <bradb> salgado: just follow the instructions word-for-word in "Using bzr remotelly and rsyncing locally" on that page
[07:47] <bradb> s/lly/ly/
[07:50] <bradb> no prob
[07:54] <salgado> bradb, do you know why the hell we need to configure a greedy revision library?
[07:55] <bradb> not really, no. I've already removed baz from my machine though, and I'd rather not think too much more about the way it "works". :)
[08:14] <lifeless> salgado: see 'MoveToBazNG'
[08:15] <lifeless> stub: I'll try getting hct with integration
[08:43] <kiko> bradb?
[08:43] <bradb> yo
[08:43] <kiko> how goes it duderino
[08:43] <bradb> pretty good, you?
[08:44] <kiko> bradb, not entirely ungood
[08:44] <kiko> bradb, privmsg alert ;)
[08:44] <bradb> good thing you told me! colloquy is teh suck for privmsg's
[08:47] <kiko> I've since learned
[08:47] <kiko> hey sabdfl, how's the other hemisphere?
[08:50] <SteveA> salgado: seen mpt?
[08:53] <matsubara> SteveA: I think he's on portuguese class
[09:22] <lifeless> SteveA: ping
[09:22] <SteveA> yes
[09:22] <lifeless> 19:02:56 INFO    Applying comments.sql
[09:22] <lifeless> createdb: database creation failed: ERROR:  source database "launchpad_ftest_template" is being accessed by other users
[09:22] <lifeless> Traceback (most recent call last):
[09:22] <lifeless> ...
[09:22] <lifeless>   File "/home/pqm/arch/queue/workdir/home/---devel/launchpad/database/schema/../../lib/canonical/database/sqlbase.py", line 577, in connect
[09:22] <lifeless>     return psycopg.connect(con_str)
[09:22] <lifeless> psycopg.OperationalError: FATAL:  database "launchpad_empty" does not exist
[09:22] <SteveA> any processes sitting around?
[09:22] <lifeless> no, its not the normal.
[09:23] <lifeless> rather than 'in use', its 'missing'
[09:23] <SteveA> full disks?
[09:23] <SteveA> let's ask elmo to look into it, from a sysadmin level
[09:23] <lifeless> Filesystem            Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
[09:23] <lifeless> /dev/sda3             537G  263G  247G  52% /
[09:23] <lifeless> elmo: ping
[09:23] <SteveA> hmm
[09:25] <sabdfl> stub around at all?
[09:26] <lifeless> hes asleep I think
[09:26] <sabdfl> lifeless: in montreal? or in thailand still?
[09:27] <lifeless> AFAIK, thailand.
[09:27] <bradb> lifeless: did you try running the command more than once?
[09:27] <bradb> sometimes it works the second time
[09:27] <SteveA> SteveA:
[09:27] <lifeless> bradb: thats pqm
[09:27] <SteveA> sabdfl: according to the wiki, stub arrives on 1 nov
[09:27] <SteveA> so, still in thailand
[09:27] <bradb> lifeless: oh
[09:28] <sabdfl> SteveA: i have a baz branch that contains last nights work. should i merge latest baz rocketfuel?
[09:28] <sabdfl> it has a db patch that is good but needs a numberfrom stub.
[09:28] <sabdfl> if you could merge it, morving the db patch to the official place, it will give you the Not for us bits and quite a bit of general cleanup
[09:29] <sabdfl> it specifically needs a review from you, though
[09:29] <sabdfl> because i was inspired finally to sort out the generalform infrastructure i created
[09:29] <sabdfl> it now supports zcml directives
[09:29] <SteveA> does that make it clearer?
[09:29] <sabdfl> its really a much simpler form infrastructure for the non-trivial add/edit cases
[09:30] <sabdfl> SteveA: yes, besides, it just feels proper
[09:30] <sabdfl> but, there's some cargo culting of zope magic
[09:30] <SteveA> i'm very keen to move as much as possible out of the zcml
[09:30] <sabdfl> so a review would be welcomed
[09:30] <SteveA> ok
[09:30] <sabdfl> i'll mirror up the current branch, which passes tests
[09:30] <SteveA> please add the details to the PendingReviews page so james' script can pick it up
[09:31] <sabdfl> then i'll merge rocketfuel, and if that passes tests, will mirror it up too so a landing will be conflict-free
[09:31] <sabdfl> i haven't done the bzr switcheroo
[09:31] <SteveA> it takes a while
[09:31] <SteveA> to convert your branches
[09:31] <SteveA> a long while
[09:32] <bradb> the baz -> bzr branch conversions will be running all next week, at this pace
[09:32] <SteveA> yes
[09:32] <SteveA> but, they also make pqm really slow
[09:32] <bradb> yep :/
[09:32] <SteveA> because it is all running on chinstrap
[09:32] <SteveA> the load was about 12 earlier
[09:33] <sabdfl><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[09:33] <sabdfl> elmo: is that integration box ready for lifeless love?
[09:33] <sabdfl> sounds a bit like dating an english chick
[09:34] <sabdfl> SteveA: plan is to move pqm to a dedicated fast box
[09:34] <SteveA> yep
[09:34] <SteveA> but i don't know what the ETA for that is
[09:42] <mpt> lifeless: ping
[09:42] <lifeless> pong
[09:43] <mpt> lifeless: For every branch that's baz-imported, it gets to nearly finished, then says "ancestor of<EMAIL_ADDRESS>is<EMAIL_ADDRESS>then begins the next one
[09:43] <mpt> Is that any cause for concern?
[09:43] <lifeless> nope
[09:44] <mpt> good good
[09:44] <lifeless> its just that the emission of the debug statement there means you do not see the end of the scroll bar
[09:44] <mpt> ok
[09:44] <mpt> I reported that as a bug, I just wanted to know whether the import was still being useful
[09:46] <lifeless> very much so
[09:46] <lifeless> thank you
[09:56] <sabdfl> SteveA: mail from jamesh sais baz branches are being ignored by his script
[09:57] <kiko> that is true
[10:01] <jamesh> sabdfl: yeah.  since they can't be landed.
[10:02] <sabdfl> jamesh: np
[10:02] <sabdfl> SteveA: you could tag from mine, fix db patch number, review, and land
[10:02] <sabdfl> however
[10:02] <sabdfl> i'm worried that it would make my work tonight behave weirdly w.t.o. conflicts etc
[10:04] <SteveA> sabdfl: okay.  i can review etc. without using james' script
[10:06] <SteveA> do you have any idea what you will work on during the flight back?
[10:07] <sabdfl> SteveA: privmsg todo list
[10:31] <SteveA> mpt: how do you specify a minimum table cell height?
[10:32] <mpt> SteveA: min-height: whatever;
[10:33] <SteveA> thanks
[10:33] <elmo> can you safely modify a list you're iterating over?
[10:33] <SteveA> no
[10:33] <SteveA> well
[10:33] <elmo> bother
[10:36] <lifeless> elmo: new_list = list(old); for member in old:
[10:36] <elmo> is that more idiomatic than copy.copy() ?
[10:36] <SteveA> yes
[10:37] <lifeless> its easier :)
[10:37] <SteveA> copy.copy() attempts a deep copy
[10:37] <SteveA> or does it
[10:37] <lifeless> err no
[10:37] <SteveA> whatever
[10:37] <SteveA> it's all CRACK anywya
[10:37] <elmo> copy.deepcopy() does a deep copy, copy.copy() is shallow
[10:37] <lifeless> Help on function copy in copy:
[10:37] <lifeless> copy.copy = copy(x)
[10:37] <lifeless>     Shallow copy operation on arbitrary Python objects.
[10:37] <lifeless>
[10:37] <SteveA> elmo: if you're iterating over the list, you can modify its members.
[10:37] <lifeless> elmo: list(foo) is nice in that it ensure you have a list
[10:37] <lifeless> copy.copy is nice in that it preserves the type
[10:38] <SteveA> but you can't add to or remove elements from the list
[10:38] <elmo> SteveA: sorry, by "modify", I mean use .remove()
[10:38] <SteveA> yeah, don't
[10:38] <SteveA> use a copy
[10:38] <LarstiQ> for item in old[:] : is also iodmatic, but list(old) is nicer
[10:38] <elmo> yeah, I'd done that by 'bother' :)
[10:39] <bradb> elmo: you might want to use something like "newlist = [foo for foo in bar if foo == something] " to filter items out of a list.
[10:55] <TylerM> anyone here got a geographic data or mapping project on the go via launchpad?
[10:56] <kiko> not yet, TylerM!
[11:06] <bradb> hm, by the time one writes an interface, a content class, a dbschema vocab, a *Set utility (and a doctest for that), and hooks it all up in ZCML, it seems to take about 150-200 lines of code/doctest/config to expose a new domain object in LP (of course, that's not counting any extra logic beyond the minimum CRUD APIs)
[11:09] <SteveA> why do you need a *Set ?
[11:09] <SteveA> shuldn't need that
[11:09] <lifeless> because he is writing stars!
[11:09] <bradb> SteveA: to create the object
[11:09] <SteveA> we generally create objects in the context of something
[11:10] <SteveA> you're probably not creating a new context object
[11:10] <SteveA> don't create unnecessary content sets
[11:12] <bradb> SteveA: that's interesting that you say we "generally" do that, because we have already 79 *Set interfaces
[11:13] <bradb> and it often seems like 1-to-1 domain object to *Set
[11:14] <SteveA> we should get rid of most of them
[11:14] <bradb> indeed :)
[11:15] <bradb> i hope we can trim down to under 10,000 lines of XML config too :)
[11:15] <SteveA> i'm going to be getting rid of much of the zcml in time
[11:15] <bradb> it sounds like you want less of that. simplicity is the new black.
[11:16] <bradb> so, in this case, I'll do the create in IDistributionSourcePackage.subscribe
[11:19] <TylerM> kiko: thanks :)
[11:19] <kiko> sounds interesting though
[11:26] <TylerM> it's what I really care about :)  http://oreillynet.com/pub/au/1898
[11:26] <TylerM> the commercial realm is quite monopolised and the open source geospatial realm is exhilirating...
[11:33] <jdub> spiv: ping
[11:35] <jdub> spiv: that 'JeffWaugh2' user is now 'MrPantless'
[11:35] <jdub> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBelowZero/LoveDay?action=info


[00:05] <sebsebseb> hi
[06:17] <knightwise> good morning everyone
[06:20] <swattor_> MORNING
[06:20] <swattor_> oops, my bad
[06:20] <knightwise> wel .. we are up now !
[06:20] <knightwise> :p
[06:24] <AlanBell> morning ringtails
[06:25]  * jussi fires AlanBell
[06:26] <knightwise> hey popey !
[06:26] <knightwise> mornin AlanBell
[06:27] <popey> morning
[06:27] <popey> enjoying your nexus 7 AlanBell :) ?
[06:27] <popey> 32gb version comes out on 18th nov apparently
[06:30]  * knightwise has the 8 gig
[06:30] <knightwise> i consider it one of my external organs
[06:31] <knightwise> since I always have it with me
[06:31] <AlanBell> yes, it is nice
[06:31] <knightwise> popey: does the 32 gig come with 3G ?
[06:31] <knightwise> AlanBell: did you do the latest OS upgrade ?
[06:31] <popey> dunno
[06:31]  * knightwise stares fondly at the landschape mode lockscreen
[06:32] <AlanBell> so will there be a rooting and flashing party at UDS?
[06:32] <popey> i think so
[06:32] <AlanBell> ooh that sounds a bit wrong
[06:32] <popey> a Raring one
[06:33] <knightwise> http://mashable.com/2012/09/03/google-nexus-7-3g-rumor/
[06:34] <knightwise> does anybody know if 12.04 can read and write to Exfat ?
[06:34] <knightwise> I want to create a shared partition on my dualboot OSX-12.04 macbook air
[06:34] <knightwise> and I would love something that could handle big files and be readable and writable for both systems
[06:40] <dwatkins> fat32?
[06:43] <knightwise> but is the file limit there 4 gig or 2 gig ?
[06:44] <dwatkins> don't thnk so, wikipedia has a big table
[06:44] <dwatkins> sorry, making breakfast
[06:45] <shauno> 4
[06:45] <dwatkins> i stand corrected
[06:48] <knightwise> hmm .. should be big enough
[06:49] <knightwise> the only thing that would make it incompable would be when I would be using vms
[06:50] <dwatkins> i assume exfat isn't supported yet, might be tho
[06:50] <knightwise> there is a fuse package i mean to remember
[07:04] <diplo> Morning all
[07:04] <knightwise> hey diplo
[07:15] <shauno> I only tend to hit 4GB for movies.  vmware has an option to create vmdk split into 2GB chunks, and virtualbox sort of can with a workaround
[07:17] <knightwise> shauno: might be a good idea
[07:18] <knightwise> the only reason I would need to park a VM on it is for tutorials
[07:18] <shauno> last I tried virtualbox won't create split disks, but has no problems using the chunked vmdk vmware created
[07:21] <knightwise> hmm. ok ,  but i think a 4 gig install just to "show' something is managable
[07:25] <knightwise> popey: did you manage to listen to the interview ?
[07:33] <popey> not all of it
[07:45] <TheOpenSourcerer> Just ordered some new bits to upgrade wifey's desktop PC. I went for the new core i3 3225 (has the HD4000 GPU!).
[07:45] <TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.ebuyer.com/393556-intel-core-i3-3225-3-30ghz-skt1155-3mb-cache-boxed-bx80637i33225
[07:45] <TheOpenSourcerer> Kids have the 3125 and that is working very nicely so this should be better!
[07:47] <TheOpenSourcerer> meant the 2125, not 3125
[08:25] <gord> 30ghz seems like a lot
[08:30] <livingdaylight> is this our current [12.10] mascot - the quetzal bird ? http://www.mayanmajix.com/quetzal.html
[08:30] <Myrtti> where can I change the layout of my workspaces in Unity2D?
[08:31] <AlanBell> Myrtti: in ccsm
[08:31] <Myrtti> I want the four to be on the same row and wrap around like in the cube, not two aside in two rows
[08:31] <Myrtti> AlanBell: in Unity2D?
[08:31] <AlanBell> general options, desktop size
[08:31] <AlanBell> ooh, unity 2d
[08:31] <AlanBell> errr, no clue, sorry
[08:32] <Myrtti> I know how to get it in the normal Unity, but I was hoping the graphical glitches would go away if I use Unity2D
[08:32] <AlanBell> grid of workspaces doesn't work for me either, I prefer linear horizontal or vertical like in Gnome Shell
[08:33] <SuperMatt> good luck today guys!
[08:34] <popey> Myrtti, http://askubuntu.com/questions/52396/how-can-i-make-the-workspace-switcher-in-unity-2d-show-more-than-one-row-of-work
[08:35] <Myrtti> funny thing is I appear to be able to screenshot the glitch
[08:35] <Myrtti> popey: I was just about to google for it when Chromium glitched, I got a screenshot, and it crashed
[08:36] <bigcalm> !isitoutyet
[08:36] <ali1234> is it release day alreday?
[08:36] <JamesTait> Good morning all! :-D
[08:36] <AlanBell> it is
[08:38] <AlanBell> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/2006/detail lots of people coming to the party later
[08:38] <JamesTait> Is something important happening today? :-P
[08:39] <SuperMatt> I've just added my girlfriend as +1
[08:39] <SuperMatt> I'm looking forward to it
[08:39] <SuperMatt> are you bringing the free CDs, AlanBell ?
[08:40] <Laney> yeah, 90 years since the BBC was founded
[08:41] <SuperMatt> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82LCKBdjywQ < wow, ghostbusters gangnam style
[08:44] <Myrtti> popey: that actually doesn't help at all - I managed to change the workspaces to a layout I want but none of the methods for changing from one to another reflect that change
[08:45] <popey> SuperMatt, the CDs aren't pressed yet
[08:45] <popey> :(
[08:46] <SuperMatt> awww :(
[08:46] <SuperMatt> oh well, I'll order one
[08:47] <Myrtti> do I have to go using XFCE4 now? awww
[08:51] <jacobw> morning
[08:52]  * Myrtti raises hand in a slight wave of panic
[08:53] <Myrtti> can I not read my synchronized tomboy notes from Ubuntu One website anymore?
[08:53] <popey> yeah, the web ui went some while back
[08:54] <Myrtti> oh dear god
[08:54] <Myrtti> http://u1.to/notes/ phew
[08:56] <Myrtti> almost got a heart attack
[08:57] <popey> eh?
[09:01] <czajkowski> aloha
[09:02] <jacobw> if you love something rsync it to several hosts :)
[09:03] <Myrtti> I've got some of the less important passwords on Tomboy and needed one
[09:05] <Myrtti> sister seems to be happy with XFCE4
[09:06] <Myrtti> in the end I didn't install the whole Xubuntu stuff because she'll use the apps she used in Ubuntu 10.04 anyway
[09:06] <Myrtti> jacobw: sure, if all the machines are on at the same time
[09:07] <gord> if you love something, sign up for every cloud service under the sun and have them all sync each other
[09:17] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[09:17] <knightwise> hey brobostigon
[09:18] <brobostigon> hey knightwise
[09:20] <bigcalm> A member of our LUG is so despondent about Unity, that he has been looking at lots of other distros. Last night I showed him my laptop running 12.04 and xubuntu-desktop. He liked it so much that he's coming back to Ubuntu
[09:21] <bigcalm> Why do people think that a DE is the be-all end-all of a distro? It's depressing when people change their whole distro when the UI changes
[09:21] <popey> people are funny
[09:23] <smittix> Morning people.
[09:23] <smittix> long time no see
[09:23] <smittix> or speak even.
[09:24] <popey> hello
[09:24]  * bigcalm is always watching - always
[09:26] <DJones> bigcalm is big brother
[09:27]  * knightwise wonders if bigcalm has binders full of women
[09:28] <smittix> How is everyone?
[09:30] <Myrtti> so it appears I get Netflix free for the rest of the year because I pay for Spotify
[09:30] <Myrtti> nice. Thanks Netflix Nordic ♥
[09:31] <popey> AlanBell, where did you get your nexus 7?
[09:33] <ali1234> bigcalm: i've explained it many times. if you want to use gnome, fedora puts a lot more effort into polishing it than ubuntu does. if you want KDE, opensuse is a million times better than kubuntu
[09:35] <SuperMatt> I'd go mageia for kde these days
[09:35] <ali1234> unfortunately nobody really puts any effort into xfce, and it shows
[09:35] <ali1234> and by effort i mean money
[09:38] <popey> oops, i appear to have bought a nexus 7
[09:38] <knightwise> lol popey :) 16 or 8 gig ?
[09:38] <Mez> popey: accidental entering of CC and clicking a few things?
[09:39] <AlanBell> popey: PC world guildford
[09:39] <AlanBell> I went in to get a bluetooth sound receive and accidentally the nexus
[09:39] <SuperMatt> oh, is anyone going to be at the party before 7 today?
[09:40] <AlanBell> SuperMatt: I might be
[09:40] <popey> 16
[09:40]  * popey bought two :S
[09:40] <popey> I can't buy one of anything
[09:41] <SuperMatt> AlanBell: what time?
[09:41] <AlanBell> dunno really, but I am in Canary Wharf area
[09:46] <SuperMatt> fair enough
[09:47] <SuperMatt> well when you decide to go over there, prod me cos I'm none too far away myself
[09:50] <Myrtti> oh gods I hate printers
[09:50] <SuperMatt> who doesn't?
[09:51] <Myrtti> /usr/lib/cups/backend/hp failed
[09:51] <gord> how would you scp a file that requires root privalages from remote machine A to local machine B, when you can only scp from machine B?
[09:51] <Myrtti> :-(
[09:51] <gord> like root to read
[09:52] <AlanBell> gord: can you ssh, or just scp?
[09:53] <gord> i can ssh
[09:54] <AlanBell> so, you can copy it on machine A to somewhere and change permissions so your scp user can read it
[09:54] <gord> good point
[09:54] <mattt> SCPASROOT
[09:54] <mattt> problem solved
[09:54] <AlanBell> !root
[09:55] <mattt> bollox
[09:55]  * jacobw sets the root password too
[09:55]  * AlanBell does not
[09:55] <mattt> i use root
[09:55] <mattt> tho i disallow root ssh logins :P
[09:59] <bigcalm> Keys \o/
[10:12] <danfish> happy releasings day!
[10:13] <danfish> what are people using to keep track of the IP's of machine's on their LAN's? hosts files or something more DNS-y?
[10:14] <bigcalm> danfish: if there are a lot of machines, then DNS in the router
[10:19] <popey> mine just seems to work by magic
[10:19] <danfish> the router's running dd-wrt so DNS should be easy set up.
[10:19] <Seeker`> magic \o/
[10:19] <popey> yeah, mine is dd-wrt
[10:19] <Seeker`> local DNS on my router doesn't work
[10:19] <popey> host.local seems to just work
[10:20]  * danfish suspects voodoo ;)
[10:23] <danfish> just logged into my router for the first time in yonks...needs a little housekeeping :(
[10:30] <davmor2> Morning all
[10:32] <SuperMatt> anyone else upset that 13.04 isn't going to be called radiant robin? :(
[10:33]  * popey wanted Rolling Rabbit
[10:33] <davmor2> popey: rancid rat didn't get picked I'm really upset ;)
[10:35] <danfish> I think Randy Rabbit was also taken...
[10:35] <mattt> haha
[10:35] <mattt> randy rabbit
[10:37] <davmor2> I really wanted EEEEEEEE KEVIN
[10:38] <Seeker`> DJones: or rampant rabbit?
[10:39] <Seeker`> err
[10:39] <Seeker`> meant to be for danfish
[10:39]  * Seeker` kicks his tab key
[10:41] <bigcalm> davmor2: I convinced Amo to come back to Ubuntu by showing him xubuntu-desktop
[10:41] <bigcalm> davmor2: he blames you for hiding it from him
[10:42] <davmor2> bigcalm: I told him about it repeatedly and showed him pictures the lying git
[10:42] <bigcalm> :D
[10:42] <bigcalm> Pictures are one thing, using it yourself is another
[10:43] <bigcalm> Even Chris was surprised by how it's come along
[10:45] <bigcalm> !isitoutyet
[10:45] <bigcalm> Boo
[10:46] <davmor2> bigcalm: Don't make me come over there and slap you  into the middle of december :D
[10:46] <bigcalm> :P
[10:47] <davmor2> by the way HAPPY RELEASE DAY EVERYONE
[10:49] <czajkowski> AlanBell: I spy you on latitude around the corner from J
[10:50] <AlanBell> :)
[10:50] <AlanBell> stalker!
[10:50]  * AlanBell goes to stalk czajkowski
[10:50] <popey> AlanBell, how do you mount the camera? upside down?
[10:50] <popey> doesnt the picture come out the wrong way up?
[10:51] <AlanBell> there are clicky flicky buttons in the gui to fix that
[10:51] <popey> ahh
[10:51] <bigcalm> Easy enough to flip it
[10:51] <czajkowski> hmm I need to find the page with what's new in 12.10
[10:51] <AlanBell> click both for upside down
[10:51] <czajkowski> and write a talk all by 4pm today as then I've a call, dinner and then drive to talk then give talk
[10:52] <czajkowski> so didnt think this one through
[10:52] <bigcalm> Wing it ;)
[10:52] <popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/ReleaseNotes
[10:52] <bigcalm> Talk about rugby
[10:52] <czajkowski> bigcalm: there is always that :)
[10:52] <czajkowski> it's in Limerick after all :D
[10:53] <czajkowski> popey: thanks
[11:00] <shauno> anyone know any 'network theory' crashcourse type things?  (I have to write a training that goes all the way up the stack from ARP resolution to smtp/http/dns specifics.  I'm losing my mind)
[11:00] <daubers> shauno: CCENT?
[11:00] <daubers> Or CCNA even
[11:00] <mattt> network+ ?
[11:01] <bigcalm> LUNCH!
[11:03] <shauno> okay, now I'm more concerned that that is actually the scope of what I'm being asked to deliver via powerpoint.  This may require a rethink
[11:03] <bittin^work> Raring Ringtail o;:
[11:03] <bittin^work> http://search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0oG7nEK4n9QRiwAI.dXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE1cGU4amhhBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMQRjb2xvA2FjMgR2dGlkA1ZJUDA5OV8xNTU-/SIG=13207qa6l/EXP=1350587018/**http%3a//news.softpedia.com/news/Ubuntu-13-04-a-k-a-Raring-Ringtail-300211.shtml
[11:09] <czajkowski> popey: you going to release party later on?
[11:09] <popey> no
[11:09] <czajkowski> Fab and Chris from H-online are going
[11:09] <popey> awww
[11:09] <popey> can't justify it given I'll be away for 2 weeks
[11:09] <czajkowski> oh yes indeed
[11:09] <bittin^work> somone knows when .iso is uploaded?
[11:09] <czajkowski> bigcalm: later on
[11:09] <popey> we don't usually have sprint+UDS the week immediately after release
[11:10] <czajkowski> bittin^work: later on
[11:10] <czajkowski> popey: release is also very early as well
[11:10] <czajkowski> :/
[11:10] <bigcalm> !party
[11:10] <bittin^work> ah hope iam able to update my PC when i get home from work
[11:10] <popey> update it now :)
[11:10] <bittin^work> my box at home is turned off and Ubuntu is borked :(
[11:10] <bittin^work> so thinking of reinstalling it really
[11:10] <popey> ah
[11:11] <bittin^work> installed some kernel from a PPA that screwed up Wubi whoops :p
[11:11] <gord> can you not make a replacement popey out of straw?
[11:11] <bittin^work> don't even remember what i got on the Ubuntu side of things
[11:11] <gord> and then put him on the bonfire?
[11:11] <gord> no wait thats next month
[11:11] <popey> :)
[11:12] <czajkowski> gord: lets not burn the man shall we
[11:12] <czajkowski> he's useful!
[11:12] <bittin^work> but my Windows 7 is mostly a bootloader for Battlefield 3 anyways :p
[11:12] <czajkowski> gord: TEA BAGs - your final reminder
[11:12] <bittin^work> got a GTX 660 from work yesterday so now i can play it at ultra
[11:12] <gord> noted, i'll make a google callender alarm to remind me to remind you to bring me some teabags
[11:12] <bittin^work> with around 50-70 FPS
[11:12] <czajkowski> I am not bringing tea bags mister
[11:13] <czajkowski> shall have flown from .ie and not unpacking when I'm in the UK for less than 24hrs
[11:13] <czajkowski> *48hs
[11:13] <bittin^work> i has le tickets to UK but nowhere to stay, not sure if i will go or not :p
[11:13] <bittin^work> but they are for 2-5th December so have time to think still
[11:14] <gord> ah yes, the dead of winter, the best time to enjoy the cold miserable english weather
[11:14] <bittin^work> was about to meet a friend, but plans changed, and my other friend was away in .ie
[11:15] <bittin^work> and think iam to lazy to get a new passport and find a hotel so think i might ditch it
[11:59] <s-fox> hello.
[11:59] <bittin^work> hi
[12:03] <davmor2> popey: I see czajkowski is trying to get you to fix https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/1067803 then
[12:03] <davmor2> popey:  at least I'm assuming that is why czajkowski is being nice to you ;)
[12:04] <czajkowski> oi I'm always nice to popey he makes things work
[12:07] <davmor2> czajkowski: so your are annoying him to fix that issue then :D
[12:10] <czajkowski> nope :s
[12:10] <czajkowski> it's not gonna get fixed today and folks are busy
[12:11] <davmor2> czajkowski: no really, it's almost as if it is release day or something
[12:11]  * Dave2 should really figure out why he can no longer use his sound card with pulseaudio
[12:11] <czajkowski> I;m just waiting on someone looking for a build increase today :)
[12:12] <Dave2> It just...stopped at some point during 12.04. (It also coincides with pulseaudio not automatically starting.) But I'm willing to bet that it probably has something to do with being a 4 year old install.
[12:13] <davmor2> Dave2: if pulseaudio isn't starting then that might be why too :D
[12:14] <Dave2> I can start pulseaudio manually, that gives me the option for S/PDIF output on my main soundcard, or other outputs on my old one
[12:14] <Dave2> (I also get some messages about how there are too many channels and it can't handle it, but hardly anyone else seems to have this issue so I have no idea.)
[12:15] <livingdaylight> The Quetzal bird of Central America ( Ket-zal) and the rattle snake shared the position of most reviered creatures by the ancient Maya. The feathers of the irradencent Quetzal were used in Royal costume and ceremonial garb for kings and priests. The Quetzal symboloized the movement of Creation and the will of the Creator come to earth. As the Serpent moves side to side on the ground, the Quetzal flaps and gl
[12:15] <livingdaylight> ides through the jungle. That is it moves up and down in it progression. The Maya knew that Creation moves from Day to Night or Creation to Destruction in a wave like pattern.
[12:15] <livingdaylight> http://www.mayanmajix.com/lab_F1.html
[12:20] <Dave2> Searching for the error message "That's too much! I can't handle that!" appears to have a mixture of pulseaudio errors and, er, fan fiction.
[12:23] <CaMason> anyone know how to hide empty folders when doing a folder comparison in meld?
[12:25] <mungojerry> yay i can crash google chrome at will :)
[12:27] <diplo> Dave2: haven't read the rest but my sound doesn't work on 12.10
[12:27] <diplo> Was 10.10 previously, ICH7 Intel card
[12:28] <diplo> Module loaded for it, but only dummy output showing
[12:28] <diplo> Was going to harass the channel this evening
[12:28] <Dave2> diplo: I have a Xonar D2X, so completely different module. I'm now reading package changelogs to try to figure out what broke it.
[12:29] <Dave2> diplo: try using ALSA output directly, see if that works
[12:29] <Dave2> (e.g. configure VLC to use ALSA and your sound card)
[12:29] <diplo> Will do that tonight
[12:32] <_serial_> hi all, you guys are probs sick of people asking but does any one have a clue when 12.10 is getting released?  daily builds are still on the 17/10 :(
[12:33] <AlanBell> _serial_: join #ubuntu-release-party to find out
[12:33] <_serial_> thank you AlanBell :)
[12:33] <popey> later
[12:33] <AlanBell> Mark Shuttleworth and the release manager Kate Stuart are there and will announce it when they announce it
[12:35] <_serial_> I didnt know that :)
[12:36]  * daubers will update this evening
[12:41] <JamesTait> !isitoutyet
[13:17] <diplo> Anyone good with strace output ?
[13:18] <diplo> If in the file there is something saying unlink by the time it's gone on to the next line and = 0 should that action have been completed ?
[13:18] <einonm> diplo: depends if unlink is async or not, I suppose. = 0 is the return value
[13:20] <einonm> also unlink only deletes the file if no other processes has it open
[13:20] <diplo> yeah it is useradd, opens passwd, reads it and makes a passwd.lock and then unlinks it after
[13:21] <diplo> Except the lock file is not going then the server crashes, I was thinking that if it was succesful the lock should disappear
[13:21] <diplo> But maybe not
[13:21] <einonm> depends where the crash happens in that sequence
[13:22] <diplo> Right at the end, says it was succesful in create /home/<user> but the dir hasn't been created, the entries to passwd/group have been made
[13:22] <diplo> and /var/spool/mail/ has been created
[13:23] <diplo> I'm trying to find the cause of the crash but failing miserably
[13:23] <einonm> the changes may not be written to disk by the time the crash occurs, so could be lost - is the crash a kernel panic?
[13:24] <diplo> I believe so, on a remote site many miles away. Trying to get a definite answer is causing me a headache
[13:24] <diplo> :)
[13:24] <einonm> :/ got any trace?
[13:25] <diplo> Only trace I've got is of running the useradd program ( this isn't ubuntu mind you ) that's why I am trying to being general :)
[13:25] <diplo> Centos, but they suck and I just want ideas to point me in the right direction
[13:25] <diplo> Nothing shows up in any logs
[13:26] <einonm> An oops message would be most helpful
[13:26] <diplo> I've created a vm locally and can't replicate and the strace finishes just before exit_group(0) on the broken server
[13:27] <diplo> then the server crashes
[13:27] <czajkowski> hmmmm I can seem to find my menu options when I max LO out
[13:27] <einonm> I think with no logs and no kernel oops, you're a bit sharfted
[13:27] <czajkowski> need to change my header/footer
[13:27] <czajkowski> gah
[13:28] <diplo> One thing though, useradd from the GUI works fine ( don't ask me why they have a gui )
[13:28] <diplo> I'm guessing it uses it's own program
[13:28] <einonm> are you using strace with the -f option?
[13:28] <diplo> Nope
[13:28]  * diplo looks
[13:29] <diplo> I'll add that and crash again now :)
[13:29] <einonm> Try that. Gives the strace of any child processes
[13:32] <diplo> Well it's crashed, tried outputting to a file this time, a few mins and hopefully it'll be back up either by a phone call or on it's own
[13:33] <einonm> a local file, or remote? You may find it's not there if it's a local file...
[13:34] <einonm> if the crash occurs and there's still data cached and waiting to get written to disk
[13:34] <diplo> I thought about that after hitting enter, did it to screen last time
[13:34] <diplo> HGave to wait for now
[13:35] <einonm> no worries  :)
[13:37] <diplo> I hate working like this :(
[13:46] <einonm> diplo: welcome to my world :)
[13:46] <MartijnVdS> popey: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19760006
[13:46] <diplo> heh, I do a fair bit of it, but I prefer to replicate locally but the company I work for suck at giving you the tools you need :(
[13:47] <popey> :)
[13:47] <diplo> Came back up, but the strace finished earlier than the last one
[13:49] <einonm> sounds like you need to store the trace in a file that has O_DIRECT / O_SYNC so there's no buffering
[13:50] <einonm> ..may be a bit tricky...
[13:50] <MartijnVdS> do it over ssh, so it's always piped out of the machine first?
[13:51] <diplo> yeah I am, think I'll just do it screen again this time
[13:51] <einonm> then you're at the mercy of any caching in the network code...it may give you more though
[13:51] <diplo> Yep crashes at the exact same place
[13:52] <diplo> Rright at the end, so basically I'm screwed :)
[13:52] <diplo> Spent a few hours on this already, be quicker / cheaper to go to site I think
[13:54] <einonm> there's always something like kdump you could use, if possible
[13:59] <diplo> Will look into that thanks, will leave the boss an email and let him decide wha tto do
[13:59] <diplo> thanks very much for your input
[14:01] <einonm> no probs
[14:31] <dubac0_> Hi i need to transfer files via email, they are classified, how to use gpg/pgp to encrypt the email - i have made a key its the publishing of the key i am finding hard
[14:33] <einonm> dubac0_: pgp -a --export <your email> > mykey.asc
[14:35] <einonm> ...actually that should be 'gpg' not 'pgp' sorry
[14:36] <einonm> based on the other person using your key to encrypt the file, and sending the encrypted file to you. mykey.asc is the public part of the key
[14:38] <dubac0_> that just gives the file
[14:38] <dubac0_> i want to publish it to a remote server
[14:43] <einonm> Try gpg --send-keys <KeyID> --keyserver <keyserver>
[14:46]  * Mez huggles Daviey
[14:52] <dubac0_> just with the pubkey ' gpg --send-keys keyid123 --keyserver ftp://keyserversareus.com'
[14:52] <dubac0_> Something like that?
[14:52] <dubac0_> @einonm
[14:54] <dubac0_> @ iahmad  to publish the pub key to a server should i type this:  'gpg --send-keys keyid123 --keyserver ftp://keyserversareus.com'
[14:54] <einonm> looks about right, where the keyID is an 8 digit hex as shown in gpg --list-secret-keys
[14:55] <dubac0_> so 2048R/365F875
[14:55] <dubac0_> thats not a real one
[14:56] <einonm> no, just the last 8 after the / the first set of chars just identifies the algo used
[14:56] <dubac0_> so 365F875
[14:56] <einonm> yup
[14:57] <dubac0_> 'gpg --send-keys 365F875 --keyserver ftp://keyserversareus.com'
[14:58] <dubac0_> I am so new but this is really important so need to check
[14:58] <popey> wb Daviey
[14:59] <dubac0_> what's ubuntu's keyserver ip? popey
[14:59] <dubac0_> ip address*
[14:59] <popey> no idea, dig/nslookup would know I'm sure
[15:01] <dubac0_> popey, so can i use <IP_ADDRESS> (ubuntu's ipaddress to publish the key?
[15:02] <popey> i have no idea
[15:03] <dubac0_> really? did you poke them in the eyes to blind them? **chuckles... no eye deer**
[15:05] <einonm> dubac0_: Try this: gpg --send-keys --keyserver keyserver.ubuntu.com <keyID>
[15:05] <dubac0_> that uses dns doesnt it?
[15:05] <einonm> keyID at end, not middle
[15:05] <einonm> it will do
[15:06] <dubac0_> so how to avoid dns use for this?
[15:06] <dubac0_> ie how to avoid dns spoofing
[15:07] <einonm> use the IP, perhaps - but I'm not sure if that URL redirects at all. And wear a foil hat?
[15:07] <BigRedS> stick the right ip in /etc/hosts
[15:08] <popey> surely if you've just used dig/nslookup to resolve keyserver.ubuntu.com to <IP_ADDRESS> this is moot?
[15:08] <dubac0_> moot?
[15:08] <einonm> good point.
[15:08] <popey> yes, moot.
[15:08] <BigRedS> yeah, obviously you use a more reliable means of getting the IP address
[15:08] <dubac0_> popey, does not compute, define moot
[15:08] <popey> i.e. how did you get the ip for keyserver.ubuntu.com
[15:08] <bashrc> When is Ubuntu D-day?  Must be some time this month.
[15:08] <popey> today
[15:09] <BigRedS> but I'd have expected ssl-style host authentication
[15:09] <bashrc> today?
[15:09] <popey> yes, today
[15:09] <bashrc> wow, that's quicker than I was expecting
[15:09] <einonm> dubac0_: Do you really care if you send your public key to the wrong place?
[15:09] <dubac0_> good point
[15:11] <einonm> and the redirect thing I mentioned is codswallop - I guess it's not HTTP so doesn't redirect
[15:11] <einonm> so publish and be dammed
[15:25] <isleofmandan> Today is 12.10 release day?  I'm not seeing anywhere to download it....
[15:25] <d0od> isleofmandan: It is release day, yes. It's not "officially" out yet
[15:26] <isleofmandan> Thanks. Was hoping to do a clean install on my laptop to take to our release party
[15:26] <bashrc> last time there was some humourous "is it out?" "it is not out"
[15:26] <isleofmandan> It'll have to be Beta 2 instead if they don't hurry up :)
[15:26] <diplo> !party
[15:26] <diplo> :)
[15:26] <diplo> !isitoutyet
[15:27] <isleofmandan> Thanks diplo
[15:27] <diplo> bashrc / isleofmandan
[15:27] <diplo> :)
[15:27] <diplo> I'm running the betas, perfectly fine
[15:28] <isleofmandan> That's good to know. I know there will be 2 people visiting tonight who are *thinking* of ditching Windows for Ubuntu. I'd hate to show them a buggy mess!
[15:28] <popey> 12.04 is still well supported
[15:28] <popey> and will be supported longer than 12.10
[15:28] <diplo> For me I found clean install better than upgrade though
[15:29] <diplo> popey: Are/will all these improvements on .10 go back into 04 ?
[15:29] <isleofmandan> Indeed. No problems with 12.04, but tonight's trip to the pub was to celebrate someting new :)
[15:30] <isleofmandan> I'm running 12.10 here now, upgraded from 12.04.  A few crashes along the way, but that always happens when I upgrade early.
[15:32] <isleofmandan> Seeing as how there's nothing to download yet, I'm off to take the dogs out. There appears to be a small gap in the Isle of Man's torrential rain too. Bonus!
[15:32] <isleofmandan> Bye for now
[15:35] <bigcalm> Is 1204 out yet?
[15:36] <JamesTait> bigcalm: Only for about 6 months. ;)
[15:37] <popey> diplo, not all, some
[15:37] <popey> some already have
[15:37] <davmor2> bigcalm: no 12.04 isn't out however 12.04.1 is :P
[15:56] <bigcalm> Is it 2012 yet?
[15:58] <MartijnVdS> davmor2: 12.04 is ALSO out ;) it's just obsolete already ;)
[15:59] <shauno> I'm still on lucid :/
[15:59] <zleap> 12.04 is lts release
[16:00] <zleap> so if you want to get the newest 12.04 you need 12.04.1
[16:03] <davmor2> zleap: 12.04.1 is the default iso for 12.04 now
[16:04] <MartijnVdS> zleap: or get 12.04 and upgrade :)
[16:25] <directhe`> mgdm, check the last 2 tweets by @nickgriffinmep
[16:26] <MartijnVdS> wut
[16:26] <mgdm> Oh, it's him
[16:26] <MartijnVdS> you still have people like that in the UK!?
[16:27] <directhe`> we elect them!
[16:27] <MartijnVdS> ಠ_ಠ
[16:27] <MartijnVdS> directhe`: your x fell off btw
[16:27] <directhe`> because rah rah rah europe rah rah rah bulldogs rah rah british beef rah
[16:27] <SuperMatt> right, who here is pubbing?
[16:27] <AlanBell> ugh /o\
[16:27] <d0od> I feel like I need to wash myself clean after looking at his feed
[16:27] <MartijnVdS> directhe`: We just get the "rah rah muslims rah rah poor elderly rah rah" types
[16:27] <SuperMatt> I'm going to aim for 6.30
[16:28] <MartijnVdS> directhe`: https://twitter.com/geertwilderspvv + google Translate
[16:28] <directhe`> so how many of nick's 14000 skinhead followers will use the home addresses of "bullying 'gay' activists" for good?
[16:29] <MartijnVdS> not too many, I'd guess
[16:29] <popey> what a horrible man
[16:29] <MartijnVdS> wouldn't he be (partially) liable though? he knows what kind of people follow him..
[16:29] <directhe`> MartijnVdS, he's 100% liable.
[16:29] <directhe`> under criminal justice & immigration act 2008
[16:30] <d0od> "British Justice team" - o_0
[16:30] <AlanBell> incitement to riot
[16:30] <mgdm> I'd have thought based on recent events we could arrest the cockwomble just for what he said
[16:30] <popey> heh
[16:31] <AlanBell> word of the week award goes to mgdm
[16:31] <mgdm> sadly it's not mine, originally
[16:31] <popey> +1
[16:32] <popey> i do hope the local plod are aware
[17:37] <dogmatic69> anyone into these 3D printers?
[17:37] <dogmatic69> thinking of getting one
[17:40] <popey> dogmatic69, i have some friends who are passionate about them
[17:40] <popey> me less so :)
[17:43] <dogmatic69> It just seems like the CAD side of it is ridiculous. My brain has a spasm every time I open FreeCAD or similar.
[17:48] <davmor2> dogmatic69: have you had a look at gcad3d iirc it was voted highest but that was a while ago http://www.gcad3d.org/
[17:49] <dogmatic69> ta, trying that now
[17:51] <davmor2> dogmatic69: failing that I believe you can use blender for 3d printer but then you need a master degree in quantum physics and astrology to navigate it :D
[17:52] <dogmatic69> gcad3d seems to be simlar to autocad
[17:52] <davmor2> astronomy even
[17:52] <davmor2> dogmatic69: yeap that's why it got such high marks I believe
[17:55] <davmor2> dogmatic69: was that the kinda thing you were after?
[18:42] <ali1234> dogmatic69: you need volumetric geometry for CAD. polygons won't really do.
[18:43] <ali1234> that usually means CSG
[18:43] <ali1234> nurbs and so on
[18:50] <hikari_> con
[18:57] <ali1234> you know something occurred to me the other day. if you can have boxing matches, why can't you make it a team sport and just have international brawling? i think this would solve a lot of the world's problems.
[18:59] <davmor2> ali1234: It's called WAR, what is it good for hu-ar
[19:00] <ali1234> not really. that's like saying boxing is the same thing as getting killed by muggers
[19:01] <davmor2> ali1234: if you got in the ring with a boxer it would be :P
[19:01] <ali1234> yes but i wouldn't, that's the point
[19:02] <ali1234> anyway, it's not a serious suggestion... or is it
[19:11] <stuphi> 12.10 One machine down, two to go!
[19:11] <MartijnVdS> but.. if it's down.. that's not good
[19:11] <MartijnVdS> is it
[19:11] <stuphi> :-)
[19:12] <stuphi> Not that sort of down, or I would not be here.
[19:15] <MartijnVdS> cools!
[19:15] <MartijnVdS> http://chrome.blogspot.nl/2012/10/the-new-chromebook-for-everyone.html
[19:16] <MartijnVdS> I might just buy one, just to see
[19:17] <MartijnVdS> hmm
[19:17] <MartijnVdS> need a UK address
[19:17] <MartijnVdS> popey: Are you here? :)
[19:19] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: or you? :)
[19:19] <MartijnVdS> christel: or you? :)
[19:20] <ali1234> i bet azelphur would ship you one if you pay him in bitcoins :P
[19:20] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: I have 0.0000001 bitcoins
[19:20] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: or something like that :)
[19:21] <ali1234> shocking
[19:21] <popey> yes MartijnVdS
[19:21] <MartijnVdS> popey: Are you willing to play mail/package relay? :)
[19:21] <popey> sure
[19:21] <popey> I'm away for 2 weeks as of Sunday tho
[19:22] <MartijnVdS> hmm
[19:22] <MartijnVdS> oh UDS + Canonical stuff?
[19:22] <popey> ya
[19:22] <MartijnVdS> hmm
[19:23] <popey> AlanBell & christel are in a pub in london right now
[19:23] <MartijnVdS> popey: I'll ask them tomorrow then :)
[19:23] <popey> whats the uk address for?
[19:23] <MartijnVdS> popey: http://www.pcworld.co.uk/gbuk/samsung-series-3-xe303c12-wifi-chromebook-silver-19273050-pdt.html
[19:23] <MartijnVdS> popey: they don't ship to .nl
[19:24] <popey> one mo
[19:24] <popey> they only do home delivery, no in-store :(
[19:25] <MartijnVdS> there's no rush
[19:25] <MartijnVdS> it's just another toy to me :)
[19:34] <popey> hang on MartijnVdS is that arm based?
[19:35] <ali1234> looks like it
[19:35] <popey> interesting
[19:36] <ali1234> do chromebooks use UEFI?
[19:36] <ali1234> i know they have a physical switch to unlock the bootloader
[19:36] <ali1234> and i know that basically just disables the signature check
[19:37] <ali1234> it would be interesting to know that there's UEFI hardware out there that is completely clean of MS keys
[19:37] <ali1234> but i suspect google made their own
[19:40] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: these are arm
[19:40] <MartijnVdS> I don't think many ARMs do UEFI
[19:43] <Myrtti> I really dislike the "avoid the headache of Windows 8" quip
[19:43] <MartijnVdS> Myrtti: it does make clear what they're betting on
[19:44] <Myrtti> all it makes clear that it's not trying to excel on being better but putting Windows 8 down. And things aren't straightforward enough to promise that everyone can have smoother experience than Windows.
[19:45] <Myrtti> sure, majority perhaps, but still
[19:45] <MartijnVdS> Windows 8 is known
[19:45] <MartijnVdS> and people expect it to be Vista-ish
[19:46] <MartijnVdS> At least, the people I've heard about it weren't very positive
[19:46] <MartijnVdS> so anything to get market share... I would love to see an evenly divided market :)
[19:46] <MartijnVdS> Ubuntu/Mac/Windows/Chrome
[19:49] <andylockran> hey all
[19:49] <MartijnVdS> \o andylockran
[19:49] <andylockran> Just got sky fibre installed; very happy with it 40Mb/2Mb
[19:50] <andylockran> however, having issues trying to set my ubuntu machine as the dmz
[19:52] <stuphi> Oops.  Now Unity has gone.
[19:55] <MartijnVdS> stuphi: Some haters^Wpeople would call that a feature :)
[19:56] <stuphi> I did think that, but no WM at all, is like going outside without trousers
[19:56] <stuphi> I feel naked!
[19:57] <MartijnVdS> ok that's just a bad image
[19:57]  * andylockran now has ubuntu working in the bathroom :)
[19:57] <stuphi> Sorry about that.
[19:58] <MartijnVdS> andylockran: speaking of "without trousers" you mean? :)
[19:58] <stuphi> andylockran: why?
[19:58] <andylockran> Really really chuffed
[19:58] <andylockran> got a control4 system setup at home; put my ubuntu box plugged into it too
[19:58] <MartijnVdS> andylockran: http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=19980603
[19:58] <MartijnVdS> 14 years old.. wow
[20:09] <andylockran> mythbuntu or xbmc for casual use of a pvr thingy?
[20:09] <MartijnVdS> xbmc
[20:10] <MartijnVdS> I don't know if xbmc does recording"?
[20:11] <andylockran> I'm using get-iplayer to download the programmes
[20:11] <MartijnVdS> xbmc then :)
[20:12] <popey> +1
[20:13] <popey> i use xbmc as a frontend for stuff i obtained elsewhere
[20:13] <MartijnVdS> like the U1MS
[20:20] <stuphi> I thought XBMC were starting to include PVR now.
[20:26] <czajkowski> evening folks
[20:27] <stuphi> Second machine just completed update to 12.10 Just need to reboot....
[20:27] <MartijnVdS> \o czajkowski
[20:27] <mgdm> 'lo czajkowski
[20:28] <andylockran> heya czajkowski
[20:28] <stuphi> Now for the hardest part of an Ubuntu update. Choosing a new wallpaper.
[20:28] <mgdm> hehe
[20:28] <MartijnVdS> stuphi: http://www.flickr.com/photos/treenaks/6816260055/in/set-72157629167894627
[20:30] <bigcalm> Taking the plung and upgrading my laptop. Can't risk my work station just yet
[20:31] <andylockran> I do love the ubuntu upgrades
[20:31] <andylockran> they're so seamless in comparison to CentOS
[20:31] <stuphi> MartijnVdS: I don't need more choice. I like to pick one of the standard supplied images, and keep it for six months.
[20:34] <stuphi> I also need to change the wallpaper so that I can see that the machine has been updated. May not notice the difference otherwise. :-)
[20:40] <czajkowski> popey: know how is behind http://www.youtube.com/user/celebrateubuntu  account ?
[20:40] <popey> yes, comms team
[20:40] <popey> why?
[20:41] <czajkowski> my new favourite video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUTNxi6b-hw&feature=youtu.be
[20:41] <czajkowski> and alo is in it :)
[20:42] <popey> he left :(
[20:42] <czajkowski> oh
[20:42] <czajkowski> wonder why it had been so quiet
[20:42] <czajkowski> showed it this evening at the talk
[20:43] <czajkowski> lotta folks going oooooh nice now I understand
[20:43] <czajkowski> so hard to get things from a blog post
[20:47] <Myrtti> oh man
[20:47] <Myrtti> I think my compiz just crashed mid-upgrade, taking the upgrade programme with it
[20:48] <MartijnVdS> Myrtti: stuphi had the same issue
[20:49] <Myrtti> judging from htop something is still running
[20:50] <Myrtti> dpkg, dpkg-deb and such
[20:50] <popey> tail the upgrade log?
[20:50] <popey> so you know what its doing
[20:51] <czajkowski> oh deja vu of my upgade day with BigRedS and Laney and things going horribly wrong
[20:52] <Myrtti> popey: where's that?
[20:52] <popey>  /var/log
[20:52] <popey> look for most recently written file
[20:53] <popey> dpkg.log perhaps
[20:54]  * czajkowski goes off to tickle ken
[20:54] <bigcalm> Have I made a mistake upgrading my laptop on release day?
[20:54] <czajkowski> maybe I need to bribe him
[20:54] <Myrtti> well it's still installing
[20:54] <Myrtti> I wonder what happens when it wants me to answer a question
[20:55] <Myrtti> Netflix on Nexus 7 while upgrade is going on ♥
[20:59] <popey> kill it, restart it, it will ask the same question
[20:59] <popey> my nexus 7's have been shipped!
[20:59] <popey> \o/
[20:59] <MartijnVdS> multiple?
[20:59] <MartijnVdS> Christmas tree tablets? :)
[20:59] <andylockran> can anyone help me with setting vdpau on my acer revo for mythtv playback of HD?
[21:00] <MartijnVdS> andylockran: vdpau? not libva?
[21:00] <popey> 2
[21:00] <MartijnVdS> (there's a libva-vdpau, but most things seem to use libva these days.. yay)
[21:02] <andylockran> Oct 18 22:01:24 media mythfrontend[3350]: E CoreContext mythrender_vdpau.cpp:603 (CreateOutputSurface) VDPAU: Error at mythrender_vdpau.cpp:603 (#25, A catch-all error, used when no other error code applies.)
[21:02] <andylockran> MartijnVdS: any clue?
[21:02] <popey> mythtv uses mplayer doesnt it?
[21:02] <MartijnVdS> andylockran: shouldn't vdpau "just work" if you use the nvidia naughty driver?
[21:02] <andylockran> MartijnVdS: I don't know
[21:02] <popey> http://askubuntu.com/questions/63682/how-do-i-configure-mplayer-to-always-use-vdpau
[21:03] <andylockran> ta popey
[21:03] <popey> np
[21:03] <andylockran> popey: does that apply to mythtv?
[21:03] <popey> myth uses mplayer AIUI
[21:03] <popey> so yes
[21:03] <andylockran> excellent, will try that now
[21:04] <popey> worked for me IIRC
[21:04] <MartijnVdS> hmm
[21:04] <MartijnVdS> 3 more nights to book for next year's week in cornwall
[21:04] <directhex> nick griffin's twitter account suspended.
[21:05] <andylockran> popey: would it require a mythtv restart?
[21:05] <MartijnVdS> andylockran: likely
[21:07] <popey> haha directhex excellent
[21:07] <christel> 4/7
[21:07] <popey> yes christel
[21:08] <christel> oops
[21:09] <andylockran> ah, mplayer isn't installed :p
[21:12] <czajkowski> christel: how's the little man ?
[21:18] <andylockran> gah, this is frustrating
[21:19] <andylockran> no idea why it's not working; and have a 'catch all' error code :(
[21:27] <bigcalm> Well this is weird. Since upgrading, my screen res is wrong but I can't see where to correct it
[21:30] <czajkowski> bigcalm: pressed super key and typed resoltion, display comes up
[21:31] <bigcalm> czajkowski: Unity isn't working for me :) xubuntu-desktop is though
[21:31] <bigcalm> Ah, finally found where to change the res. Doesn't list what my laptop can do
[21:31] <czajkowski> no idea so
[21:31] <bigcalm> I wonder if restricted extras was removed
[21:31] <czajkowski> folks in #xubuntu might :)
[21:32] <stuphi> bigcalm: xorg.conf Those were the good old days :-)
[21:32] <zleap> i am sure they get disabled when you upgrade, adn you need to re-enable them in software sources
[21:37] <Myrtti> woot
[21:37] <Myrtti> I got Unity back, it's upgraded while the rest of the system is still doing it
[21:53] <Myrtti> I wonder where the messaging indicator has vanished
[21:57] <bigcalm> Oh, and my laptop's fan is now at 100% all the time
[22:08] <MartijnVdS> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=c8ZSps-2sM8