[06:15] <dholbach> good morning
[15:04] <dpm> hi everyone
[15:05] <dpm> o/
[15:05] <belkinsa> o/
[15:05] <Ubuntu-Fan> hello every one im just trying to see if this works
[15:05] <rpadovani> o/
[15:05] <dpm> bear with us, we're starting in a minute
[15:05] <dbtmro> Hi :-)
[15:05] <Ubuntu-Fan> :D sure
[15:07] <belkinsa> I see you!
[15:07] <Ubuntu-Fan> i cant wait :P this is my first time to watch a live stream
[15:07] <mhall119> welcome Ubuntu-Fan :)
[15:07]  * balloons waves
[15:08] <dholbach> if you have any questions, let us know!
[15:08] <jose> hey, Ubuntu-Fan! welcome to Ubuntu on Air! :)
[15:08] <dholbach> prefix them with QUESTION:
[15:08] <rpadovani> i see you too :D
[15:08] <Ubuntu-Fan> wooohooo :D
[15:08] <dholbach> ask whatever question you have about Ubuntu
[15:08] <Spartacurse> what was the topic this time again please?
[15:08] <dholbach> or whatever else you want to talk about
[15:08] <belkinsa> Community Team Q&A.
[15:08] <mhall119> Spartacurse: not specific topic, we're just here to answer your questions
[15:09] <Ubuntu-Fan> what about the ubuntu phone? is it gonna happen?
[15:09] <Spartacurse> Aww shucks, was just going to ask about that. :)
[15:09] <belkinsa> Please use QUESTION: Ubuntu-Fan
[15:09] <balloons> Ubuntu-Fan, remember to prefex with QUESTION: so it it's easier to see
[15:09] <mhall119> Ubuntu-Fan: yes! Do you wnt to know about it?
[15:10] <Ubuntu-Fan> ok
[15:10] <Ubuntu-Fan> I would love to know about it
[15:10] <belkinsa> I like that idea, dholbach.
[15:10] <rpadovani> QUESTION: Lot of LoCo websites are based on Drupal. Canonical is releasing a framework to create themes similar the international one. Do you also plan to release a complete theme for Drupal?
[15:11] <nik90> that's a nice idea.
[15:12] <Kaii_> hi guys
[15:12] <Kaii_> Godd evening from here
[15:12] <balloons> hello all!
[15:12] <belkinsa> o/ Kaii_
[15:13] <ki7yy> QUESTION: What is the status of systemd implementation?
[15:13] <Ubuntu-Fan> Thank you for answering my Question :)
[15:14] <balloons> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-community-webthemes
[15:14] <rpadovani> http://design.ubuntu.com/web-style-guide
[15:14] <rpadovani> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-web-style-guide
[15:14] <balloons> ohh.. interesting rpadovani
[15:15] <dpm> http://design.canonical.com/2014/06/making-ubuntu-com-responsive-our-sass-architecture/
[15:15] <rpadovani> it's a SASS framework that themes some bases elements, like buttons, footer, links and so on
[15:16] <ninja> i am a ninja, i must be invisible :D
[15:16] <Spartacurse> QUESTION: I may be misunderstanding who's who here, but the valve/ubuntu thing that kickstarted last year with the Steam for Linux. How is the future looking there? My feeling is that the whole "linux will be the future of gaming" claims are fading out more and more looking at titles released on steam for linux. Are ubuntu still putting effort into gaming or is that on low prio now?
[15:16] <rpadovani> ok, thanks guys
[15:16] <dholbach> ki7yy, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=systemd-boot
[15:17] <ki7yy> mhall119: Thank you for the answer! dholbach Thank you for the link!
[15:18] <ninja> Spartacurse: I am not an expert in this regard but I feel gaming is not given much priority by the community
[15:19] <maokei> spartacurse I don't think caninical has any big drift in gaming it's basically valve pushing the gaming front onto linux
[15:19] <belkinsa> dholbach and mhall119 , nice room that you are in.
[15:19] <rpadovani> ahaha
[15:19] <ki7yy> I'm developing some ham radio apps for myself that will depend on systemd
[15:19] <nik90> dholbach: ^^
[15:19] <marshall> hello all
[15:19] <mhall119> hello marshall
[15:20] <belkinsa> Remember that there is a delay between video and IRC.
[15:20] <dholbach> ki7yy, ah ok... good to hear - I was just interested to hear which features people are waiting for :)
[15:20] <ki7yy> dholbach: our local ham radio club is developing an HSMM mesh network. I'm trying to make mine autostart in systemd with required services. Working well on Archlinux but I want to deploy it on Ubuntu
[15:21] <dholbach> awesome
[15:21] <ki7yy> :D
[15:21] <dholbach> is it going to be hard to get this specific autostarting right? does it work with upstart and old sysvinit already?
[15:22] <dholbach> thanks belkinsa - it's a coworking space I'm in
[15:22] <Binary-fuel> I am being more advance with the department of networking. Is there any thing thing that could use a networker in the attempt to further development abuntu?
[15:22] <ki7yy> I haven't even tried. Seeing systemd is the future I'm just coding for it
[15:22] <dholbach> Binary-fuel, networking in which sense? what would you like to do?
[15:22] <ninja> belkinsa: video? which video?
[15:22] <dholbach> ki7yy, ah I see
[15:22] <dholbach> ninja, http://ubuntuonair.com
[15:23] <belkinsa> QUESTION: Will the Evernote Client for Ubuntu have the full features (such as hand-written notes, voice notes, ect.) as the Windows/Web Client?
[15:23] <ninja> thankx dholbach
[15:24] <Binary-fuel> Well designing basic protocols is pretty much where I am heading. But in general sense I am a open book. I want to aid in the advance of abuntu so in a networking sense what is abuntu development jobs needing?
[15:24] <Ubuntu-Fan> QUESTION: i recently started studying software engineering, and i'm still ignorant in all of the developing of ubuntu, but i really love ubuntu and the way its free and open source, and i really want to contribute to it, with my mind but i dont know how can i support ubuntu.. any ideas?
[15:24] <belkinsa> Binary-fuel, is this a question for them?  If so, please use QUESTION:
[15:25] <nakanut> QUESTION: On the Ubuntu phone/tablet, how readily available is the released memory from closed apps?  And have there been instances in development where the memory has been accessible?
[15:25] <dholbach> Binary-fuel, you could ask on<EMAIL_ADDRESS>om
[15:25] <mhall119> nakanut: what do you mean by "memory"?
[15:25] <mhall119> RAM?
[15:25] <nakanut> yes, sorry
[15:25] <belkinsa> Ubuntu-Fan, you don't need to be a developer to get involved!  Look at community.ubuntu.com for help.
[15:25] <mhall119> or local files?
[15:26] <belkinsa> help = ideas, Ubuntu-Fan, in this case.
[15:26] <Spartacurse> Those are reassuring replies. I want to be able to migrate to linux completely and gaming is the biggest reason for me not to take that leap. Maybe I am expecting too much too soon? :) Thank you for your answers.
[15:27] <Ubuntu-Fan> @belkinsa ill do my best :)
[15:27] <Kaii_> hello just recently upgrade to version 14.04 and experiencing frequenlty freezing of my gui. how could i trace its cause?
[15:27] <belkinsa> I understand Ubuntu-Fan.
[15:27]  * belkinsa is not a developer herself
[15:27] <mhall119> Spartacurse: it's the old 80/20 rule, 80% of the work takes 20% of the time, I think Steam is now into the last 20% of the work, which will take the other 80% of the time :)
[15:27] <Zero-x101> Question, I have been deciding to go linux for my web server and I just wanted to know how secure is abuntu server, like in sense of a hackers point of view. Will I expect to have security issues when dealing with transactions?
[15:28] <justCarakas> QUESTION will the background in the app be customizable again ? it used to be before 14.04 but now that setting doesn't work and the white origami background stays
[15:28] <justCarakas> on the phone I mean
[15:29] <dholbach> Ubuntu-Fan, check out http://community.ubuntu.com
[15:30] <belkinsa> Ubuntu-Fan,: http://loco.ubuntu.com/ For Local COmmunities
[15:32] <ki7yy> Ubuntu can be made as secure as any other distro
[15:33] <Ubuntu-Fan> Thank you so much guys :D im so excited to start contributing :D, and ill work hard to give my best to ubuntu :D  thank you guys, you rock woohoo
[15:33] <belkinsa> Not a problem.
[15:33] <belkinsa> Maybe Ubuntu does need the Recruiting team.  :)
[15:33] <belkinsa> Or comms or promo if those are better names
[15:34] <ki7yy> excellent popey
[15:34] <popey> ki7yy: thanks
[15:34] <dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Specifications/ApplicationConfinement/ might be interesting as well
[15:34] <justCarakas> QUESTION does state saver also work for HTML5 apps ?
[15:36] <nakanut> @dholbach thx for the link
[15:37] <Zero-x101> I was installing a linux abuntu server a week ago and i'm new to some commands. The document I downloaded from the correct website had giving me the most updated manual out there. With the correct environment created for some code to work, most of the code contain sudo dose not exists or other main commands which stated the same. I have installed alot of packages but still nothing, Is there a place where errors in the docu
[15:38]  * belkinsa really likes the idea of doing a Community Q&A in this style with different guests every week
[15:39] <dholbach> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Linux_adopters
[15:39] <nik90> belkinsa: +1
[15:39]  * Spartacurse thinks Blizzard should fall in love with linux, and specifially ubuntu.
[15:40] <dholbach> :-)
[15:40] <Spartacurse> Kinda annoyed with all the workarounds for their games. It works since 13.xx but would love some native versions.
[15:41] <Zero-x101> Well yes but I think linux needs a distro that makes developing game easy for them. I have tried to get grand theft over to linux but it became complex within the engine its self due to the delivery system linux uses to communicate with hardware. That the drivers, wish there was supported drivers as well.
[15:41] <alfa_> hi there
[15:41] <Na3iL> hey alfa_
[15:41] <popey> hi
[15:41] <dholbach> any more questions? keep them coming
[15:41] <justCarakas> would be nice if it is posible
[15:42] <mhall119> Zero-x101: if you can run your server in a cloud that has juju support it would make it much easier, the charms install services in an optimal way with no intervention needed from you
[15:42] <belkinsa> I see the screen!
[15:43] <belkinsa> Thanks for the demo dpm.
[15:43] <dholbach> :)
[15:44] <mhall119> dholbach: troll
[15:44] <Spartacurse> QUESTION: What would be the smartest/quickest way to get involved as a dev for ubuntu phone apps? Is learning HTML5 enough or would one need more, if so, what?
[15:44] <dholbach> mhall119, SCNR
[15:44] <belkinsa> dpm do you use x-chat?
[15:44] <popey> looks like it
[15:46] <Sboss>  /quit
[15:46] <Zero-x101> I was thinking of making a cloud bank with beta tests of linux programs but linux and my cloud ability haven't mixed in together yet. I have a little bit of command lines to work through with concepts and how to correctly use it. But I will love some information with linux and network clouding abuntu server together tho
[15:47] <dholbach> any more questions?
[15:47] <marshall> support for hardware seems like a major issue, not just about GPUs but even my printer doesn't work well :(
[15:48] <dholbach> marshall, did you file a bug report for it?
[15:48] <belkinsa> Evernote Developer Sandbox Sever, not Evernote.
[15:48] <marshall> how do I do that?
[15:48] <dholbach> printers and GPUs have been working great for me in the last 7-8 years all the time
[15:49] <balloons> if you want to use the emulator, check out dpm's guide: http://developer.ubuntu.com/apps/sdk/tutorials/using-the-ubuntu-emulator/ http://davidplanella.org/ubuntu-emulator-quickstart-guide/
[15:49] <dholbach> marshall, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs
[15:50] <mhall119> http://developer.ubuntu.com/apps/
[15:50] <belkinsa> QUESTION: The Reminders app uses the Evernote Developer Sandbox not the Evernote sever that Evernote uses, when will it move to the Evernote sever?  When the first release comes?
[15:51] <balloons> app dev community https://plus.google.com/communities/111350780270925540549
[15:51] <marshall> All right. perhaps why I didn't consider filing a bug earlier is because I saw on the Internet several people having the same problem with same printer
[15:51] <Spartacurse> Cheers!
[15:51] <marshall> may be its specific to that printer, coz my old printer worked fine
[15:52] <balloons> marshall, if the printer does things it's own way, and the vendor doesn't support linux in some way it gets hard
[15:53] <balloons> a printer that supports standards generally should just work
[15:53] <belkinsa> \o/ because I have two accounts, the sandbox and the normal one that I use more than the sandbox
[15:53] <chris1992> hp is the best way to go since they officially support linux
[15:53] <dholbach> which printer is it?
[15:53] <marshall> thats the major problem, I don't understand why vendors don't support Linux
[15:53] <dholbach> a question on askubuntu.com should be able to help as well
[15:53] <Zero-x101> QUESTION,  what would be a good skill/certificate be to learn so I may contribute my time to the development of ubuntu server?
[15:53] <marshall> Canon LBP2900B
[15:54] <Kaii_> QUESTION hello just recently upgrade to version 14.04 and experiencing frequenlty freezing of my gui. how could i trace its cause?
[15:55] <dholbach> Kaii_, try asking on askubuntu.com as well
[15:55] <Zero-x101> marshall the main reason why a lot of vendors don't support linux is a lot of reason 1) Being low market level and 2) The cost to code and support their product to work with linux. It is mainly the market they care about tho
[15:55] <balloons> Kaii_, if there is a crash; https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProgramCrash
[15:56] <Kaii_> thanks
[15:56] <belkinsa> Maybe we can get a sever guy next time?
[15:56] <belkinsa> (not a question for them, just an idea)
[15:56] <balloons> Kaii_, otherwise try different drivers for your graphics card, check things out in a guest session or boot from the live cd and see if the problem still happens. If it doesn't you have something on your account that is causing the issue
[15:57] <dpm> Kaii_, yes, we don't tend to answer tech support questions here, as the forums and askubuntu are more suited for that
[15:57] <dholbach> grrrrrrrrr, network :-(
[15:57] <marshall> thats disappointing. I really like Linux and promote it where ever I can but I am really disappointed to see that people don't use it
[15:57] <dholbach> Zero-x101, I'd suggest to get started with a package or piece of software you know well
[15:57] <dholbach> take a bug report that looks easy to fix to you and get started with that
[15:58] <dholbach> even if it's just a small typo fix or something
[15:58] <balloons> Zero-x101, packages you care about as well :-)
[15:58] <ki7yy> dholbach: is back!
[15:58] <jose> cloud.ubuntu.com and juju.ubuntu.com, #juju on irc.freenode.net
[15:58] <dholbach> then get somebody from the server team to help you
[15:58] <belkinsa> cloud.ubuntu.com and juju.ubuntu.com
[15:59] <Kaii_> thanks guys
[15:59] <Zero-x101> Thanks for the information and links
[15:59] <belkinsa> Thanks for this!
[15:59] <dholbach> rock on everyone :-)
[16:00] <Spartacurse> Thank you for your time, answers and hard work.
[16:00] <chris1992> saying hello from fedora  :)
[16:00] <Alvaro> Thanks!
[16:00] <mhall119> ignore the children in the background
[16:00] <balloons> thanks guys!
[16:01] <nik90> thnx for the session
[16:01] <Zero-x101> I will try to gain my knowledge in abuntu server So I may add answers and not just ask questions so next time is good.
[16:07] <marshall> thanks to all for their answers
[16:23] <nRgy> Hello :D
[16:59] <brandex> Hi
[21:04] <matthew0045> .
[21:30] <ptidav38090> DRDY is connectivity fault?
[21:30] <ptidav38090> {}
[21:31] <ptidav38090> i think yes
[21:31] <ptidav38090> *mean
[21:32] <ptidav38090> 2 western digial 10000 rpm
[21:32] <ptidav38090> and 1 tera 7200 rpm maybe death


[05:20] <keshava> $JUJU_HOME/bin/juju bootstrap -v --debug --upload-tools would return 2014-02-13 00:35:41 ERROR juju.cmd supercommand.go:294 failed to enable bootstrap storage: failed to create storage dir: exit status 255 (Permission denied (publickey,password).)
[05:21] <keshava> anyone knows reasons/solution for this ?
[05:24] <keshava> ERROR juju.cmd supercommand.go:294 failed to enable bootstrap storage: failed to create storage dir: exit status 255 (Permission denied (publickey,password).) - how to workaround this?
[05:29] <bradm> keshava: sounsd like you're using the wrong public key?
[06:42] <stub> Can anyone point me to a charm which streams data (in my case, a log file) to another service? netcat would work but doesn't have the security I'd want.
[06:42] <sarnold> stub: there are rsyslog charms
[06:43] <sarnold> stub: http://manage.jujucharms.com/charms/precise/rsyslog
[06:44] <stub> Ta.
[06:44]  * stub wonders about serializing his logs and using syslog as the transport
[09:03] <vila> marcoceppi: hi there, I'm trying to understand what https://pypi.python.org/pypi/amulet/1.2.1 is lp:amulet where there is no 1.2.1 tag, can you help ?
[10:12] <stub> Gah, I've got logging backwards
[10:13] <stub> My charm needs to 'require' syslog in order to emit log messages to a receiver that 'provides' syslog
[10:15] <stub> I think the rsyslog charm was written from the POV of syslog being a service, when I'm thinking of it as a protocol
[10:17] <stub> But I guess that way makes sense if we start running hooks in a better defined order, provider side hooks first
[11:30] <marcoceppi> vila: amulet is mirrored on launchpad, but hosted on github
[11:30] <marcoceppi> vila: https://github.com/marcoceppi/amulet/releases
[11:40] <vila> marcoceppi: but https://github.com/marcoceppi/amulet.git/ doesn't have the 1.2.1 tag either ... what am I doing wrong >-/
[11:40] <marcoceppi> vila: it's there, hard refresh?
[11:43] <vila> marcoceppi: that made it, glitch since yesterday evening I suppose... Anyway,
[11:43] <vila> marcoceppi: thsnks
[11:43] <marcoceppi> vila: np
[11:43] <vila> hehe, thanks (damn fingers)
[11:46] <vila> marcoceppi: I'm also trying to find where I can get an ubuntu packaged version for that, I'm using ppa:juju/devel but amulet is not there (and I need support for precise, saucy, trusty, /me sighs, life is complicated sometimes... ;)
[11:46] <marcoceppi> vila: tools are in juju:ppa/stable :)
[11:46] <marcoceppi> and it's built for precise, saucy and trusty
[11:46] <vila> \o/
[11:47] <vila> marcoceppi: can I mix ppa/stable with juju 1.17.2 ?
[11:47] <marcoceppi> vila: yes, so if you have devel ppa, you'll always get the lastest juju as juju 1.17.2 > 1.16.6
[11:48] <marcoceppi> but when the next stable release comes out, 1.18.0 it'll get installed over 1.17.2
[11:48] <marcoceppi> since we do devel and stable releases differently
[11:48] <marcoceppi> evens are stable, odds are devel
[11:48] <vila> marcoceppi: cool, thanks for the tip about juju/stable, I could find it on lp from lp:amulet :-/
[11:48] <marcoceppi> as such, having both ppa won't break anything
[11:48] <marcoceppi> vila: I'll update the project page, thanks for the feedback!
[11:48] <vila> marcoceppi: oh, ok, good to know (I hope I will remember that odd/even in this context...)
[12:00] <cargill> when joining the db-admin relation with postgres, the user does not get the right to create new databases?
[12:05] <marcoceppi> cargill: uh, the user /should/
[12:06] <cargill> when I do "SELECT rolcreatedb from pg_roles where rolname like 'db_admin%';", all are flase
[12:06] <cargill> *false
[12:07] <marcoceppi> cargill: give me a few mins to spin up the latest postgres charm and check
[12:08] <cargill> sure, mine says 'cs:precise/postgresql-61'
[12:08] <cargill> just in case it matters
[12:09] <marcoceppi> cargill: that appears to be the latest
[12:14] <cargill> ok, that's interesting, it might be the pg_hba.conf interaction with the local environment again, as trying to create it in psql works now
[12:16] <cargill> and he does have rolsuper, that should give the user right to do anything?
[12:23] <marcoceppi> cargill: yeah, db-admin gives you superuser permissions
[12:23] <marcoceppi> so you should be able to romp around and create a database, etc
[12:24] <cargill> marcoceppi: thanks, and sorry for the false alarm, it was caused by postgresql restoring my changes to pg_hba.conf after a while
[12:27] <cargill> if doing deployment from local: and I've fixed bugs in the charm, how do I get them to be picked up? do I have to update revision? just removing the service and redeploying it again still uses the old version and there is nothing in .juju/charmcache
[12:58] <marcoceppi> cargill: yeah, from local, run juju deploy -u --repository... local:...
[12:59] <marcoceppi> the -u will update the cache
[13:34] <rick_h_> marcoceppi: doc your way with working dual local lxc environments
[13:34] <marcoceppi> rick_h_: \o/
[13:35] <rick_h_> now that I've got this I want cross env relations :P
[13:38] <cargill> marcoceppi: so the proper way is changing the revision, thanks
[13:40] <marcoceppi> rick_h_: dont' we all :)
[14:44] <cargill> when generating default passwords, is there a way to communicate them to the user?
[15:00] <marcoceppi> cargill: no, we strongly recommend you not auto-generate passwords and have users set it via config.yaml
[15:01] <marcoceppi> cargill: you can juju-log it, or place it in a file on the server and tell the user to ssh + cat that file though, again not recommended
[15:01] <cargill> but what if they do not set it?
[15:02] <marcoceppi> cargill: you can have the config-changed hook exit 1, to alert the user of an error, or have it exit 0 while it waits for the user to change/set the password
[15:25] <jcastro_> marcoceppi, so at the sprint people were making fun of me because I had to keep blowing away .jenv files
[15:25] <jcastro_> http://joshstrobl.blogspot.com/2014/02/developing-ubuntu-juju-charm.html
[15:25] <jcastro_> I feel vindicated knowing I wasn't the only one with broken local provider
[15:26] <JoshStrobl> Thanks jcastro_, I'll go ahead and sign up in the juju mailing list and take part in the discussion!
[15:26] <marcoceppi> JoshStrobl: its not local either
[15:26] <marcoceppi> err jcastro_^
[15:26] <jcastro_> we should name this script thumper.sh: http://pastebin.com/UMeZdH0Y
[15:26] <marcoceppi> jcastro_: ha!
[15:26] <jcastro_> JoshStrobl, this is sweet feedback dude
[15:27] <marcoceppi> jcastro_: HOLY CRAP DUDE
[15:27] <lazyPower_> niceeee
[15:27] <JoshStrobl> jcastro_: Just figured I'd share my experience writing a charm =)
[15:27] <marcoceppi> jcastro_: please don't recommend that script
[15:27] <marcoceppi> jcastro_: great way to loose your entire environments.yaml
[15:27] <lazyPower_> its pretty destructive without any kind of warning
[15:27] <JoshStrobl> But yea, it was a bit of a pain setting up the environment, destroying it, etc.
[15:27] <JoshStrobl> marcoceppi and lazyPower_ that is the point
[15:28] <lazyPower> JoshStrobl: oh i'm aware of that, but some people just run scripts blindly
[15:28] <marcoceppi> JoshStrobl: some of us have more than one environment in environments.yaml :)
[15:28] <lazyPower> ^
[15:28] <JoshStrobl> I did it because whenever my charm failed to be installed properly and I went to kill the service, it would just put the state as "dying" the entire time, I couldn't kill it without destroying the environment.
[15:28] <jcastro_> my point was mostly "we suck at cleanup so badly someone had to write a script."
[15:28] <marcoceppi> jcastro_: yeah, I agree
[15:28] <jcastro_> lazyPower, actually, weren't you writing a "nuke it from orbit" plugin?
[15:28]  * marcoceppi makes a cleanup plugin
[15:28] <lazyPower> jcastro_: i dubbed it "The Atom Bomb"
[15:29] <timrc> Are there best practices for accessing private bzr branches from LP from a service node?  The most obvious strategy seems to be to create a bot user and copy around a private ssh key but that thought alone I suspect makes kittens cry
[15:29] <JoshStrobl> I couldn't even use destroy-machine because the charm was stuck as dying.
[15:29] <lazyPower> and yeah - Its still in my slack task listing
[15:29] <marcoceppi> JoshStrobl: there's a force flag for that
[15:29] <marcoceppi> JoshStrobl: juju terminate-machine --force #
[15:30] <JoshStrobl> marcoceppi: I'd trying that out, but thanks to you being so helpful (bad marcoceppi, bad!), my charm works.
[15:30] <JoshStrobl> So I'll need to intentionally break the charm to test if that works :P
[15:30] <JoshStrobl> marcoceppi and jcastro_ I'll update my blog with the update you provided, provide some warnings about the script, and join the juju mailing list. My fiancee and I are going to a dance however, so I'll be afk!
[15:31] <JoshStrobl> *with the update, as in the quickstart stuff.
[15:34] <marcoceppi> JoshStrobl[afk]: enjoy!
[15:39] <marcoceppi> jcastro_: here's pretty much all you need for a clean up: https://gist.github.com/marcoceppi/8977344
[15:40] <lazyPower> marcoceppi: not sure about recent revisions of juju as i haven't had any issues, but with 1.17.0 i had to nuke ~/.juju/$env in the case of local as well. just removing the .jenv wasn't enough.
[15:41] <marcoceppi> lazyPower: OHH, yeah, good point
[15:41] <marcoceppi> lazyPower: https://gist.github.com/marcoceppi/8977344
[15:41] <lazyPower> marcoceppi: and then there's the case where it wasn't destorying the lxc containers...
[15:41] <marcoceppi> lazyPower: well, that's been fixed in 1.17
[15:41] <lazyPower> you've basically just written the nuke plugin once you've done that. parse the env name out of the lxc-ls --fancy and bam.
[15:41] <lazyPower> yeah, i agree, its no longer really required.
[15:42] <lazyPower> someone was dilligent in getting that patched, and i send them all the <3 in the world for that.
[15:42] <marcoceppi> lazyPower: probably thumper, at least that's who I always blame the lxc stuff on ;)
[15:53] <marcoceppi> So, I'm about to make a juju-plugin plugin which downloads...plugins
[15:53] <marcoceppi> much like npm, but for juju, because that seems the sanest way to package plugins
[15:55] <lazyPower> +1
[15:56] <lazyPower> Are you going to be hosting the API that powers this?
[15:56] <lazyPower> or just parse launchpad data?
[15:56] <marcoceppi> lazyPower: free for all
[15:57] <marcoceppi> lazyPower: so you can host it on github, gist, lp, where ever
[15:57] <marcoceppi> lazyPower: hosted
[15:57] <lazyPower> brilliant
[15:57] <marcoceppi> open source, etc
[15:58] <marcoceppi> just going to have the plugin create a $JUJU_HOME/plugins directory, and have it added to the users path
[16:11] <jcastro_> marcoceppi, do you know if we still support firing off a specific AMI for the AWS provider?
[16:11] <jcastro_> we used to iirc.
[16:12] <marcoceppi> jcastro_: I don't think we've supported that since the goland rewrite, let me check the source doe
[16:12] <marcoceppi> code*
[16:21] <marcoceppi> jcastro_: so you /could/ if you created simplestream data and overwrote the canonical stream data
[16:21] <marcoceppi> then you could have it use another AMI
[16:21] <mbruzek> marcoceppi, Are the machine logs for hp cloud stored on my local machine?
[16:21] <marcoceppi> mbruzek: no, they're in the bootstrap node
[16:22] <marcoceppi> mbruzek: the only reason machine logs are stored on your machine is if you're using the local provider because your laptop/desktop becomes the bootstrap node
[16:22] <mbruzek> OK
[16:23] <mbruzek> all-machines.log?
[16:24] <tomixxx4> hi, when i try to deploy a service on a machine with "juju deploy mysql --to lxc:0" it says "container creation template for juju-machine-0-lxc-0 failed"
[16:24] <mbruzek> in /var/log/juju/ ?
[16:24] <tomixxx4> the output, of "juju status" in detail is: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6926247
[16:25] <jcastro_> marcoceppi, excellent
[16:26] <marcoceppi> jcastro_: haven't tested that, but it shoudl work
[16:26] <marcoceppi> tomixxx4: which provider?
[16:26] <jcastro_> ok so not impossible
[16:26] <marcoceppi> mbruzek: machine-# is where the machine logs are
[16:27] <marcoceppi> tomixxx4: nvm, I see you're on maas
[16:27] <tomixxx4> marcoceppi: what do you mean "which provider" please have a look at the output of "juju status":  http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6926247
[16:27] <marcoceppi> tomixxx4: does this machine have outside network accecss?
[16:28] <marcoceppi> machine being cloud1.master
[16:28] <tomixxx4> marcoceppi: yes
[16:28] <marcoceppi> tomixxx4: well, the error states "failed to get https://cloud-images.ubuntu.com/query/precise/server/released-dl.current.txt"
[16:29] <tomixxx4> marcoceppi: that should be fixed with help from #maas because the nodes were able to resolve all packages while booting after i executed a bash script to do some NAT
[16:29] <marcoceppi> tomixxx4: so, ssh in to that machine and try to wget that URL
[16:29] <tomixxx4> so i should enter this command on the bootstrap node?
[16:29] <marcoceppi> tomixxx4: yup
[16:30] <tomixxx4> or any other url?
[16:30] <marcoceppi> tomixxx4: that cloud-images url
[16:32] <tomixxx4> it answers with "password:"
[16:32] <marcoceppi> tomixxx4: that's...what?
[16:33] <tomixxx4> i have to type this command on the console of the juju bootstrap node, right?
[16:33] <tomixxx4> so, i typed this command in and the response of the console is "Password: "
[16:33] <marcoceppi> tomixxx4: so, you should just be able to type juju ssh 0 from wherever you ran juju bootstrap
[16:33] <marcoceppi> that should SSH you into the node
[16:33] <marcoceppi> then you should just type `wget  https://cloud-images.ubuntu.com/query/precise/server/released-dl.current.txt`
[16:33] <tomixxx4> aha
[16:33] <tomixxx4> ok
[16:35] <tomixxx4> because i have the physcial node beside me, so i typed this command with node's keyboard ;)
[16:37] <marcoceppi> tomixxx4: right, and maas removes the passwords, so you can't just log in
[16:37] <tomixxx4> ok, i have tried ssh now it prints<EMAIL_ADDRESS>password: " on maas-server console
[16:37] <marcoceppi> tomixxx4: did you add your ssh key to maas?
[16:37] <tomixxx4> yes
[16:38] <tomixxx4> so i have to add sth to "ssh cloud1.master" ?
[16:38] <marcoceppi> tomixxx4: well `juju ssh 0` should try to ssh<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[16:38] <marcoceppi> not sure why it says<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[16:38] <tomixxx4> it says master because i use DNS resolving
[16:38] <tomixxx4> provided by maas server
[16:39] <marcoceppi> tomixxx4: not sure why it says thomas instead of ubuntu
[16:39] <tomixxx4> OK
[16:39] <marcoceppi> it should be using the ubuntu user to ssh you in when you run `juju ssh 0`, could you run `juju ssh --show-log --debug 0` ?
[16:39] <marcoceppi> and paste the output
[16:39] <tomixxx4> kk
[16:40] <tomixxx4> k, i tried "juju ssh 0" it says "permission denied (publickey, password)
[16:40] <marcoceppi> tomixxx4: yeah, so it doesn't have your ssh keys on there
[16:41] <tomixxx4> i have followed the installation guide... i have created an ssh key
[16:41] <tomixxx4> andd added with "+ add ssh key" to preferences of root
[16:41] <marcoceppi> tomixxx4: can you run `ssh -vvv<EMAIL_ADDRESS>and pastebin the output
[16:42] <marcoceppi> tomixxx4: and the ssh key is on the machine you're running the juju command from, correct?
[16:42] <tomixxx4> yes, its on the maas-server-node
[16:42] <marcoceppi> tomixxx4: cool, so you're running these commands from the maas-master
[16:43] <tomixxx4> yes
[16:43] <tomixxx4> output: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6926349
[16:44] <tomixxx4> oh
[16:44] <tomixxx4> this id_rsa.pub... is this the ssh key which should come into maas-dashboard?
[16:45] <tomixxx4> because i have another ssh key created some time ago, and its file name is different and its location too...
[16:45] <marcoceppi> tomixxx4: so, yeah, the ssh id_rsa.pub file that's on this machine in the thomas user should be the one in the dashboard
[16:46] <tomixxx4> ok, s***
[16:46] <marcoceppi> add it, juju destroy-environment maas, rebootstrap, then try to deploy --to lxc:0 again
[16:46] <marcoceppi> tomixxx4: if it fails, again, then do the ssh and check to make sure you can get that url
[16:46] <tomixxx4> ok
[16:46] <marcoceppi> tomixxx4: no worries man! you would have hit this issue sooner or later ;)
[16:48] <tomixxx4> iam such an idiot, if this is the cause of the issue, i have wasted lots of hours. xP
[16:48] <tomixxx4> but Thank You so far !!!
[16:51] <marcoceppi> tomixxx4: np, feel free to ping me when you get going again. I don't think that's why the lxc container failed, but it's hard to troubleshoot if you can't get to the node
[16:51] <tomixxx4> marcoceppi: ok ty
[17:16] <tomixxx4> marcoceppi: hmm, i have changed that ssh, destroyed juju and rebootstrapped but there is still sth wrong: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6926519
[17:45] <tomixxx4> ok, last try for today, i have deleted all keys in .ssh and created a new one with the command "ssh-keygen -t rsa", rebootstraping now...
[18:07] <tomixxx4> marcoceppi: ok, i could login now to the node and i tried wget but i get "failed: no route ho host"
[18:07] <marcoceppi> tomixxx4: ah, I know this issue!
[18:07] <marcoceppi> tomixxx4: you need to configure your DNS server to foward requests
[18:07] <marcoceppi> quick fix, on the maas-master
[18:08] <marcoceppi> tomixxx4: open /etc/bind/named.conf.options on maas-master
[18:08] <tomixxx4> kk!
[18:08] <marcoceppi> and add the following bit
[18:09] <marcoceppi> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6926815/
[18:09] <marcoceppi> tomixxx4: you should see it commented out currently
[18:09] <marcoceppi> just uncomment and set the dns server to something, lik <IP_ADDRESS>
[18:09] <tomixxx4> marcoceppi: no its not uncommented, its <IP_ADDRESS>
[18:09] <tomixxx4> i told u from a bashscript to NAT right?
[18:09] <tomixxx4> i guess the NAT script has caused to set this IP as DNS
[18:09] <marcoceppi> tomixxx4: you're using the micro-cluster scripts?
[18:10] <tomixxx4> gimme a sec plz
[18:10] <tomixxx4> i have executed this script on maas-server: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6926827/
[18:11] <tomixxx4> there is a line: dnsserver="<IP_ADDRESS>"
[18:12] <marcoceppi> tomixxx4: yeah, that's from the micro-cluster scripts
[18:12] <marcoceppi> tomixxx4: can you actually dig @ that address?
[18:12] <marcoceppi> tomixxx4: ie, `dig @<IP_ADDRESS> google.com` from the maas-master
[18:13] <tomixxx4> yes, i guess, "query time: 1022 msec"
[18:13] <tomixxx4> 1 server found
[18:14] <tomixxx4> but a question: is the dns-server of the node not simply the maas-dns-server?
[18:14] <tomixxx4> so <IP_ADDRESS> ?
[18:14] <tomixxx4> because i have set "manage dhcp + dns"
[18:14] <tomixxx4> instead of <IP_ADDRESS>, which is dns-server from the maas-server
[18:15] <marcoceppi> tomixxx4: right, so basically the nodes will use your maas-master as DNS, but that DNS server needs to forward requests that it dosn't know about to an outside DNS server
[18:15] <marcoceppi> otherwise you'll get no route to host
[18:16] <tomixxx4> hmm ok , what does this mean? do i have to edit resolvconf on ssh node and add <IP_ADDRESS> (maas-server) as dns-nameserver=
[18:16] <tomixxx4> ?
[18:18] <tomixxx4> aaaahhh <IP_ADDRESS> is already written in resolv.conf of the node
[18:19] <tomixxx4> hmm
[18:20] <tomixxx4> this is, what my "interfaces" file on the maas-server looks like: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6926866
[18:20] <tomixxx4> dns-nameservers: <IP_ADDRESS> seems wrong, not?
[18:20] <tomixxx4> (eth0 connects the server to the nodes, eth1 connects the server to the i-net)
[18:21] <marcoceppi> tomixxx4: yeah, that dns-server should be the outward facing dns-server
[18:21] <marcoceppi> dns-nameserver*
[18:22] <tomixxx4> kk
[18:22] <marcoceppi> tomixxx4: then you'll have to restart networking
[18:22] <tomixxx4> k
[18:25] <tomixxx4> hmm still no route to host
[18:41] <tomixxx4> whe i start bootstrapping, i have to manually power on the node which is allocated in maas
[18:41] <tomixxx4> so, when i power off the node, and power on it again, does juju still work on that node?
[18:41] <tomixxx4> (i have also rebooted maas-server in meantime xP)
[18:42] <marcoceppi> tomixxx4: it should, unless the node has been set to stopped in maas
[18:42] <tomixxx4> kk
[18:43] <tomixxx4> but now, i see on the nodes console "cloud1 login:" but it seems it is not finishing...
[18:43] <tomixxx4> u know what i mean?
[18:43] <tomixxx4> normally, after this line, the node goes on and at the end it prints "cloud init" or sth like that
[18:43] <marcoceppi> tomixxx4: is this after a bootstrap or just a powercycle post bootstrap?
[18:44] <tomixxx4> just powerxycle
[18:44] <marcoceppi> tomixxx4: that's noraml
[18:44] <tomixxx4> ok, but when i hit "juju status" i get no answer in maas-server...
[18:44] <tomixxx4> it seems to stuck some way
[18:44] <tomixxx4> i cant even login too
[18:44] <marcoceppi> tomixxx4: so, you see cloudinit the first time because it's provisioning juju and installing a bunch of stuff, however, it's already done that so it just boots up and runs
[18:45] <marcoceppi> tomixxx4: can you ssh<EMAIL_ADDRESS>?
[18:45]  * JoshStrobl thinks he may have been a bit overkill in the length of his response on the Juju mailing list :S
[18:45] <tomixxx4> no it says "could not resolve hostname cloud1.master: Name or service not known"
[18:45]  * marcoceppi goes to review the overkill
[18:46] <marcoceppi> tomixxx4: so, can you run ssh -vvv<EMAIL_ADDRESS>and pastebin the output?
[18:46] <tomixxx4> "interfaces" on master: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6927005
[18:46] <tomixxx4> maybe i have to add "master" in search line?
[18:47] <tomixxx4> ah...
[18:47] <marcoceppi> JoshStrobl: fantastic feedback!
[18:48] <JoshStrobl> Thanks
[18:48] <marcoceppi> thank you!
[18:50] <tomixxx4> it should spelled "dns-search" and "dns-nameservers" and not "search" and "nameserver" ... xP
[18:50] <JoshStrobl> marcoceppi: In case you didn't get the notice on G+, I went ahead and updated the blog post to suggest your script as well. I described mine as an atom bomb to a problem that can be solved with a screwdriver :P
[18:51] <marcoceppi> JoshStrobl: cool, I'm taking a few mins to work on making installing plugins for juju a lot easier too, as well as addressing some of the documentation concerns you brought up
[18:51] <marcoceppi> Unfortuantely our copywriter is out, so things like quickstart which are relatively new haven't been documented yet
[18:52] <JoshStrobl> marcoceppi: That's understandable. Better to know now then never I suppose! :P
[18:56] <tomixxx4> marcoceppi: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6927050
[18:57] <marcoceppi> tomixxx4: what does dig cloud1.master present?
[18:57] <tomixxx4> marcoceppi: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6927064
[18:59] <marcoceppi> tomixxx4: what does /etc/resolve.conf look like on maas-master?
[19:00] <tomixxx4> marcoceppi: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6927078 and "interfaces": http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6927082
[19:01] <marcoceppi> tomixxx4: move <IP_ADDRESS> to the first line
[19:01] <marcoceppi> also, which DNS server is the one you actually use?
[19:01] <marcoceppi> 140.21 or 176.16 ?
[19:02] <tomixxx4> dont know
[19:02] <marcoceppi> whichever it is, that's the one that needs to be in /etc/bind/named.local.options
[19:02] <marcoceppi> as it'll be the one that forwards requests, I'm guessing <IP_ADDRESS> considering the output of dig
[19:04] <tomixxx4> ok its <IP_ADDRESS> , i did "dig www.google.com | grep SERVER"
[19:04] <tomixxx4> can i simply edit resolv.conf?
[19:05] <marcoceppi> tomixxx4: you can, but it'll eventually get re-generated
[19:05] <tomixxx4> re-generated, but only after reboot?
[19:06] <marcoceppi> tomixxx4: and other certain times
[19:06] <tomixxx4> oh ok...
[19:06] <marcoceppi> tomixxx4: the best way is to edit /etc/resolvconf/...
[19:06] <marcoceppi> uh, I forget the file name, one second
[19:06] <tomixxx4> head?
[19:06] <marcoceppi> tomixxx4: yeah, /etc/resolvconf/resolv.conf.d/head
[19:07] <marcoceppi> that's a good one to start with
[19:09] <tomixxx4> and then reboot :-)
[19:11] <tomixxx4> yep
[19:11] <tomixxx4> working
[19:12] <tomixxx4> can login again :-)
[19:12] <tomixxx4> but no route to host :(
[19:15] <marcoceppi> tomixxx4: yeah, so you'll need to update the forwarders rule in the /etc/bind/named.local.optoins to the right dns server
[19:15] <marcoceppi> restart bind, then try again
[19:16] <tomixxx4> good point, but the ip is already correct
[19:16] <tomixxx4> <IP_ADDRESS>
[19:16] <marcoceppi> well, something's messed up along the line there
[19:17] <tomixxx4> u meand named.conf.options?
[19:17] <marcoceppi> tomixxx4: for the sake of, something or another, from maas-master run `dig @<IP_ADDRESS> google.com`
[19:17] <tomixxx4> btw, i have to run the bash script again it seems, because nat table iptables is empty ^^
[19:18] <tomixxx4> i always have to run it, if i reboot the maas-server tbh
[19:18] <tomixxx4> has sth to do with my old server version i guess
[19:19] <tomixxx4> when i execute this bash script, do i have to reboot, restart network service or sth like that?
[19:19] <marcoceppi> tomixxx4: nope, it should do all that for you
[19:19] <tomixxx4> kk
[19:19] <marcoceppi> tomixxx4: so, dig @<IP_ADDRESS> google.com; did that work?
[19:20] <tomixxx4> "dig @<IP_ADDRESS> google.com" > connection timed out; no servers could be reached
[19:20] <marcoceppi> darn, okay
[19:21] <tomixxx4> ?
[19:21] <marcoceppi> tomixxx4: well I was going to say you could just use another DNS server, but you can't because of your network location
[19:22] <tomixxx4> but i can connect to i-net on my maas-server
[19:23] <marcoceppi> tomixxx4: right, but some networks block exterior nameserver lookups
[19:23] <marcoceppi> which is happening in your case
[19:23] <tomixxx4> interesting: when i try "ping <IP_ADDRESS>" on my node, it says "destination host unreachable"
[19:23] <marcoceppi> tomixxx4: it might not be listening to pings
[19:24] <tomixxx4> but "ping <IP_ADDRESS>" works
[19:24] <tomixxx4> and "ping <IP_ADDRESS>" works also from maas-server
[19:24] <marcoceppi> tomixxx4: right, because your bind instance isn't configured to not respond to pings
[19:24] <marcoceppi> OH, on your node
[19:25] <tomixxx4> yes, on the maas-server, i can ping <IP_ADDRESS> and <IP_ADDRESS>
[19:25] <tomixxx4> from the juju-bootstrap-node, i can only ping <IP_ADDRESS>
[19:25] <tomixxx4> so it seems there is some NAT problem?
[19:27] <tomixxx4> in the bash-script, eth0 and eth1 are not confused or sth like that? iam not that familiar with iptables-statements
[19:27] <tomixxx4> eth0 = connects the server to the nodes via switch, eth1 = connects the server with internet
[19:32] <marcoceppi> tomixxx4: oh, maybe that's what's up
[19:32] <marcoceppi> the script assumes something else
[19:33] <tomixxx4> kk
[19:40] <tomixxx4> so, i guess i need other NAT- and forwarding statements?
[19:41] <marcoceppi> tomixxx4: one sec, link the script you're using again?
[19:42] <tomixxx4> marcoceppi: kk, link is: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/69227311
[19:43] <tomixxx4> marcoceppi: sorry, wrong address.... correct: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6927311
[19:44] <marcoceppi> tomixxx4: you should uncomment sysctl --system
[19:44] <marcoceppi> also, you should install iptables-persist
[19:44] <marcoceppi> and write the rules to it, so they survite restarts
[19:46] <marcoceppi> so, install iptables-persist, then run the nat script, then run `iptables-save > /etc/iptables/rules.v4`
[19:47] <tomixxx4> marcoceppi: but sysctl --system does not work with my ubuntu server edition
[19:47] <marcoceppi> tomixxx4: what...version are you running?
[19:48] <tomixxx4> ubuntu server 12.04.3 LTS
[19:53] <thumper> rick_h_: if I have an environment running, with a gui installed, will 'juju quickstart' just log me in to it?
[19:54] <rick_h_> thumper: yes
[19:54] <thumper> ok
[19:54] <rick_h_> thumper: it's a much faster way thank finding your admin secret
[19:54] <rick_h_> thank/than
[19:54] <thumper> true that
[19:55] <marcoceppi> can we just make juju quickstart juju deploy?
[19:55] <marcoceppi> err boostrap
[19:55] <rick_h_> not a fan, in this case it's not bootstrapping. It's using the existing env
[19:55] <rick_h_> and it's used for: juju quickstart bundle:xxxx
[19:56] <rick_h_> which can reuse an env, that's not 'bootstrap' really.
[19:56] <marcoceppi> rick_h_: it will bootstrap if the env doesn't exist already
[19:56] <marcoceppi> atleast, I'm pretty sure it will
[19:58] <tomixxx4> marcoceppi: so, the content of the bash script is ok?
[20:00] <marcoceppi> tomixxx4: seems about right
[20:02] <tomixxx4> marcoceppi: but dns resolving works
[20:02] <tomixxx4> marcoceppi: see the output of the wget command: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6927432
[20:19] <tomixxx4> marcoceppi: so, do u have any other idea what the reason for the problem could be ? :(
[20:43] <tomixxx4> marcoceppi: ok, i have to go now. but i will be here next week, maybe there is a chance to get things work on another day ;)
[20:44] <marcoceppi> tomixxx4: cheers, sorry we couldnt' get this figured out today!
[20:46] <tomixxx4> marcoceppi: np! thank you for all your help and hints so far ;-) All these things helped me to get stepwise closer to openstack!
[20:46] <tomixxx4> gn8
[20:53] <marcoceppi> jcastro: https://github.com/juju/plugins
[20:53] <jcastro> I saw, I am subbed to the juju org
[20:53] <jcastro> <3
[20:54] <marcoceppi> I'll add more as I clean up plugins
[20:54] <marcoceppi> jcastro: could you test my install instructions when you get a chance?
[20:55] <marcoceppi> lazyPower: you probably wrote a few plugins too ^^
[20:55] <jcastro> sure
[20:56] <jcastro> marcoceppi, git is in `git` now, not `git-core`
[20:56] <lazyPower> jcastro: so git is no longer a metapackage?
[20:58] <jcastro> no it's a package package
[20:58] <jcastro> but it's git, not git-core
[20:58] <jcastro> marcoceppi, the rest of the instructions work
[20:58] <marcoceppi> jcastro: cool, thanks
[20:58] <marcoceppi> docs updated
[20:59] <jcastro> marcoceppi, http://paste.ubuntu.com/6927700/
[20:59] <jcastro> something is wrong with the backup one I think?
[20:59] <marcoceppi> jcastro: backup isn't a plugin in the plugin repo
[20:59] <jcastro> marcoceppi, also it's Verify not Veify
[20:59] <marcoceppi> jcastro: that's something in your path
[20:59] <jcastro> oh!
[21:00] <lazyPower> marcoceppi: the only juju plugin i wrote you replaced with clean
[21:00] <lazyPower> +1 on instructions working
[21:00] <jcastro> marcoceppi, all you need is an "updating" section and you should be good
[21:00] <marcoceppi> jcastro: something I just realized, it'd be nice if in () after the description juju showed you the path to the plugin
[21:00] <jcastro> just cd'ing in there and git pull should do it right?
[21:00] <marcoceppi> jcastro: ah, good catch
[21:00] <marcoceppi> jcastro: ack
[21:00] <jcastro> o/
[21:01] <marcoceppi> thumper: you up?
[21:01] <thumper> marcoceppi: yeah man
[21:01] <thumper> pfft
[21:01] <thumper> been up for hours
[21:01] <marcoceppi> thumper: hey, how hard would it be to display the path of a plugin in the juju help plugins output?
[21:02] <marcoceppi> like `PLUGIN      --description output    PATH`
[21:02] <jcastro> man, I really want the docs on github
[21:02] <thumper> you mean where we found th eplugin?
[21:02] <jcastro> but I don't want to go down that rabbit hole
[21:02] <marcoceppi> jcastro: oh, you mean with like markdown ;)
[21:02] <thumper> jcastro: do it :-)
[21:02] <marcoceppi> +1 from me ;)
[21:02] <jcastro> marcoceppi, yeah, then you could inline edit docs ON THE FLY
[21:02] <thumper> jcastro: ask for forgiveness
[21:02] <marcoceppi> thumper: yeah, where the plugin is located
[21:03] <jcastro> thumper, yeah but we build the docs out of bzr, so like, we'd need to update cron jobs etc.
[21:03] <marcoceppi> like /usr/bin or is it ~/.juju-plugins, etc
[21:03] <thumper> marcoceppi: pretty easy
[21:03] <jcastro> hmmmm
[21:03] <marcoceppi> thumper: cool, I'll file a bug for it then try to hack it myself for the next 10 mins, then leave it to the experts
[21:03] <jcastro> hey rick_h_, how did you import the gui history into github and so on?
[21:03] <thumper> marcoceppi: heh, ok
[21:04] <thumper> rick_h_: also, re: github, do you squash the commits when merging?
[21:05] <jcastro> https://github.com/kfish/git-bzr
[21:05] <jcastro> seems useful
[21:05] <marcoceppi> jcastro: there's like a million git-bzr plugins out there
[21:05] <jcastro> yeah I just want to know which one works
[21:06] <marcoceppi> they all kind of suck, are you talking about just moving the docs branch to github?
[21:06] <marcoceppi> I can do a one time export -> import to github
[21:06] <marcoceppi> #thingstodowhennickisaway
[21:07] <jcastro> yeah
[21:08] <marcoceppi> was that yeah do that, or...?
[21:08] <marcoceppi> I mean, we should make sure no other merges exist against the docs branch, then once we move it we'll need to basically not accept merges to the docs branch anymore on lp
[21:09] <marcoceppi> then setup lp to import from gh so that we don't break auto-doc generation
[21:10] <jcastro> I was thinking of filing to make the auto-doc scripts update to pull from gh instead
[21:12] <jcastro> marcoceppi, I don't see any active MPs for docs.
[21:13] <marcoceppi> jcastro: we could do that too, file to use gh, not sure how much IS will like that, but I can do an initial import to gh
[21:13] <jcastro> -core is moving to github
[21:13] <jcastro> let's go all in!
[21:13] <marcoceppi> jcastro: cool, will set up in a few seconds
[21:16] <rick_h_> thumper: notes, scripts, and docs in here: https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~rharding/juju-gui-lander/trunk/files
[21:16] <rick_h_> thumper: hazmat says that to squash commits from bzr over to the new git repo it's a one line change to bzr-fastimport
[21:16] <marcoceppi> jcastro: https://github.com/juju/docs
[21:17] <jcastro> marcoceppi, nice, I'll send the mail to nick
[21:17] <rick_h_> thumper: yes, we squash when marging currently. https://github.com/juju/juju-gui/blob/develop/HACKING.rst#typical-github-workflow is what we're doing atm with some warts
[21:17] <lazyPower> marcoceppi: can i get an invite to the juju group?
[21:18] <marcoceppi> I don't think I'm an admin?
[21:18] <rick_h_> lazyPower: github username?
[21:18] <lazyPower> rick_h_: chuckbutler
[21:19] <marcoceppi> I do have the power
[21:19] <rick_h_> lazyPower: added as charmer like marco/jcastro
[21:19] <lazyPower> ty rick_h_
[21:19] <rick_h_> hmm, and did owners as well. looks like everyone is an owner
[21:19] <marcoceppi> lazyPower: we should make sure that we don't ever push master, but use merge proposals instead
[21:19] <marcoceppi> psa
[21:20] <lazyPower> marcoceppi: i'll follow the fork-repository pattern.
[21:20] <marcoceppi> lazyPower: <3
[21:20] <lazyPower> :)
[21:20] <rick_h_> marcoceppi: lazyPower yea, we make everyone fork off of juju owned repo into their own space and use pull requests
[21:20] <marcoceppi> I guess it's about time I moved amulet from my namespace
[21:21] <hatch> there might be a better way to do the merging so we don't need people to rebase before merging into the develop branch....but untested
[21:21] <hatch> pr's accepted.....right rick_h_ ? :)
[21:21] <rick_h_> hatch: yea, hopefully I can hack at it some this weekend.
[21:21] <hatch> oh that would be awesome
[21:21] <rick_h_> hatch: well I missed the no rebasing bit
[21:22] <hatch> there is git merge --squash
[21:22] <rick_h_> some of those ways just always end up as one commit which I'm not a fan of
[21:22] <hatch> and git merge --squash --ff
[21:22]  * marcoceppi stops pushing master to plugins now
[21:22] <rick_h_> hatch: oh hmm, well we just use the github api for the merge bit
[21:23] <rick_h_> hatch: so I don't have a way to tell it how to do it like that. I guess we could have the script try to do it and then close the pull request as a follow up step
[21:23] <rick_h_> I want to see how we get into these merge conflict issues. I don't run into them but seems everyone else does so I must be missing something in my workflow.
[21:23] <hatch> I don't....it only happens when you merge develop into your current workflow then modify it and another branch lands
[21:24] <hatch> it's pretty rare
[21:24] <hatch> but the conflicts make sense
[21:24] <rick_h_> I think the trick is to fix the way we merge develop in mid-branch
[21:24] <rick_h_> just git merge develop isn't good. I think a git rebase develop will work
[21:24] <rick_h_> but need to setup branches in the right state and try it out this weekend
[21:30] <marcoceppi> rick_h_: so is juju-core on gh or should I be using bzr still?
[21:31] <rick_h_> marcoceppi: I'm not up on what core is up to. They're moving at some point but don't know timing/state of that.
[21:31] <rick_h_> marcoceppi: I'm assuming since thumper asked for info they're still working on it
[21:31] <marcoceppi> makes sense, ta
[21:31] <thumper> marcoceppi: core moving soon
[21:31] <thumper> FSVO soon
[21:32] <rick_h_> hah
[21:33] <marcoceppi> jcastro: are you going to announce plugins to the list or should I?
[21:33] <jcastro> I can if you'd like!
[21:33] <jcastro> I am at your service
[21:34] <marcoceppi> jcastro: you're more...wordsmity than I, I can't seem to get veify right ;)
[21:34] <jcastro> on it
[21:34] <marcoceppi> ta!
[21:39] <jcastro> marcoceppi, is juju clean the only one we have right now?
[21:40] <marcoceppi> it's the only one I've put in there, I'm trolling through my gists to find others
[21:40] <jcastro> ack
[21:40] <marcoceppi> I've created a ton of them, but they're pretty hyper specific
[21:41] <jcastro> wouldn't hurt to have them in there
[21:41] <jcastro> if anything as examples
[21:42] <hatch> jcastro quickstart is a plugin..no?
[21:42] <jcastro> hatch, yessir it is!
[21:42] <hatch> or is that leveled up too much? :)
[21:43] <jcastro> though tbh I think it should just be reimplemented in core
[21:43] <jcastro> that should just be the way to use juju IMO
[21:44] <marcoceppi> hatch: well, is juju-quickstart just a single file? IMO plugins should graduate to packages, like deployer charm-tools and quickstart
[21:44] <marcoceppi> but a ton of them, like juju-clean, address gaps in juju released versions
[21:45] <hatch> marcoceppi no it's quite a bit of work :)
[21:45] <marcoceppi> or one off simplifications, like juju-setall
[21:45] <marcoceppi> which just runs juju set key=val on all services wether it exists or not as a valid config
[21:45] <hatch> https://code.launchpad.net/~juju-gui/juju-quickstart/trunk
[21:47] <hatch> it seems like there should be a juju-plugins org and then each plugin has it's own repo
[21:47] <hatch> else you have to pull down everything to patch one plugin
[21:47] <hatch> but I mean, unless there are quite a few it's probably not a problem :)
[21:47] <marcoceppi> hatch: that was my plan, but jorge was like "start small"
[21:48] <hatch> I hate to say it.....but he is probably right ;)
[21:48] <marcoceppi> yeah, I registered jujuplugins.com but unless get a cascade of plugins I think this will suffice
[21:51] <hatch> yup yup
[22:10]  * marcoceppi shames jcastro for cowboying on the docs branch
[22:15] <dannf> he shalt be punished by eating only beans from a can and dark coffee for a week!
[22:20] <thomi> Hi - I wonder who I should talk to about issues I'm having in juju-quickstart? Specifically: https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-quickstart/+bug/1280005
[22:20] <_mup_> Bug #1280005: juju-quickstart cannot bootstrap local environemtn with sudo <juju-quickstart:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1280005>
[22:45] <marcoceppi> thomi: as of 1.17.2 you no longer need sudo to bootstrap (it'll instead prompt for password) so when 1.18.0 is released that bug won't be relevant anymore
[22:45] <thomi> marcoceppi: in the mean time, what can I do?
[22:45] <marcoceppi> thomi: run sudo juju quickstart ?
[22:45]  * thomi tries
[22:48] <rick_h_> thomi: howdy, yea for now I cheat and bootstrap with juju and then run quickstart to get the Gui and bundles deployed
[22:48] <thomi> rick_h_: ok, I'll try that
[22:48] <rick_h_> thomi: we're in between releases. Right now it checks if the version is < 1.18 and if so it throws the message
[22:48] <rick_h_> thomi: once 1.18 hits it'll 'just work' and it's a pain point during the dev 1.17 cycle
[22:48] <thomi> rick_h_: perhaps on trusty it shouldn't install the PPA?
[22:49] <thomi> rick_h_:  any idea when the 1.18 release is happening?
[22:49] <rick_h_> thomi: I think the aim is within 2wk?
[22:49] <thomi> awesome, thanks
[22:49] <rick_h_> thomi: no promises, but soon so should get over this bump
[22:49] <thomi> :)
[22:57] <JoshStrobl> @marcoceppi - I don't think individual repositories are necessarily for juju plugins. I've contibuted to DefinitelyTyped (a repository of definitions and tests for Typescript stuff - https://github.com/borisyankov/DefinitelyTyped) and having each "definition" (in the case of Juju plugins it'd be a folder for each plugin) works out pretty well.
[22:57] <marcoceppi> JoshStrobl: well, this is one repository, that has a file per plugin
[22:57] <marcoceppi> same concept
[22:58] <marcoceppi> JoshStrobl: I'm about to add more, I just put the one in there, but others are welcome
[22:58] <thomi> rick_h_: probably a dumb question, but 'juju generate-config' does not set 'admin-secret' in the local environemnt config stanza, which then causes other things to fail. Any ideas what I'm missing?
[22:58] <JoshStrobl> marcoceppi: Essentially, although you could easily divide each plugin into it's own folder and accompany each plugin with it's own Markdown page that'd be similar to man pages so people could easily understand (in a human readable fashion) the plugin's use-case, flags/ args, etc.
[22:58] <marcoceppi> JoshStrobl: since plugins work by path, we'd have to add /each/ folder to path, which is tedious
[22:59] <JoshStrobl> true
[22:59] <marcoceppi> JoshStrobl: yeah, that's why I enforce all plugins accepting a --help flag
[22:59] <marcoceppi> since juju will automatically run the -help flag if you do `juju help <plugin>`
[23:00] <marcoceppi> much like the other juju help topics
[23:00] <rick_h_> thomi: I think they changed that it's in the jenv file now. The gui mentions it when you install it and load it now
[23:00] <JoshStrobl> marcoceppi: Awesome.
[23:00] <rick_h_> thomi: so check the .juju/environments/xxxx.jenv
[23:01] <thomi> rick_h_: yes, I see it there, but after doing a manual bootstrap, 'juju-quickstart -e local' complains about it being missing from the environments.yaml file - should I copy it over, or is there a better way?
[23:01] <rick_h_> thomi: if you juju quickstart it should find it and load the gui and auto log you in
[23:02] <rick_h_> thomi: juju-quickstart --version
[23:02] <thomi> juju-quickstart 1.0.0
[23:03] <rick_h_> hmm, can you file a bug then that lists the error you get from quickstart with it complaining. Note that you generated the config via generate-config
[23:03] <rick_h_> thomi: ^
[23:03] <thomi> rick_h_: sure thing
[23:03] <rick_h_> thomi: for the moment yes, you can copy it over
[23:03] <marcoceppi> lazyPower: you around?
[23:03] <rick_h_> thomi: but I thought it should *just work* in either location
[23:04] <marcoceppi> lazyPower: could you review and merge this plz https://github.com/juju/plugins/pull/2
[23:09] <thomi> rick_h_: https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-quickstart/+bug/1280019
[23:09] <_mup_> Bug #1280019: juju-quickstart does not find admin-secret <juju-quickstart:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1280019>
[23:10] <rick_h_> thomi: thanks, will put this on the radar to check into
[23:11] <rick_h_> thomi: I'm wondering if this is another case where "juju < 1.18 look in environments.yaml" and otherwise look in .jenc
[23:11] <rick_h_> .jenv
[23:11] <thomi> sounds like it
[23:12] <rick_h_> thomi: I'll verify tomorrow and update the bug.


[00:53] <snail> mwhudson: on the bright side, there are much more unpleasant things they could have spend the weekend sending you...
[00:53] <mwhudson> snail: i guess that's true
[03:44] <ibeardslee> ohhh 3.0
[03:52] <snail> 3.0 ?
[03:53] <ajmitch> linux
[03:53] <ajmitch> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=OTUwMg
[03:55] <mwhudson> ah, the voices in linus' head won?
[03:56] <ajmitch> apparantly so
[04:03] <snail> nice
[12:23] <Bacta> Hai all
[20:41] <ibeardslee> morning
[20:47] <snail> morning all
[20:55] <ajmitch> morning
[22:59] <hads> 3 working days for a reply to a sales enquiry doesn't inspire confidence in a hosting provider. Especially when at the bottom of the response it has "Ticket Priority: 24 Hour Response"
[23:01] <ibeardslee> ouch .. who is that?
[23:02] <hads> Digiweb
[23:34] <ajmitch> they're in christchurch, aren't they?
[23:39] <hads> They are
[23:39] <hads> Run DiscountDomains and SecurePayTech
[23:40] <hads> Page load speed on nicegear has gone from 6-8 seconds back down to <1 second
[23:40] <hads> Since replacing that hard drive
[23:41] <ajmitch> quite a difference, that hard drive must have been a bit toast
[23:42] <ajmitch> I wonder how much sector remapping it was having to do


[14:12] <Pendulum> so did all of the documentation/outreach stuff just kinda get dropped from UDS?
[14:13] <Pendulum> (sorry, vaguely online now, but not really here, just looking at the session notes from Tuesday finally)
[14:13] <Cheri703> we did talk about outreach a bit...
[14:13] <Cheri703> (also, glad you traveled safely :) )
[14:14] <Pendulum> okay, just no notes on the etherpad...
[14:14] <AlanBell> hi Pendulum
[14:14]  * Cheri703 was taking notes, did a crappy job, sorry
[14:14] <AlanBell> Pendulum: there is audio too
[14:14] <Pendulum> or very little
[14:14] <AlanBell> http://mirrors.tumbleweed.org.za/uds-o/
[14:14] <Pendulum> AlanBell: bad auditory processing so listening without the discussion won't help me :-/
[14:15] <Pendulum> Cheri703: no worries!
[14:15] <Cheri703> Pendulum: there weren't necessarily specifics about it, just "we should probably do more outreach" I think
[14:15] <Pendulum> I guess the documentation/outreach stuff that was on the etherpad from our last meeting just never made it onto the UDS etherpad :-/
[14:15] <Pendulum> (so didn't get discussed)
[14:16] <Cheri703> well, I think some of the testing classes charlie-tca and I were talking about would be outreach at least to a degree
[14:16] <Pendulum> yes
[14:16] <Pendulum> true
[14:16] <Pendulum> I was mostly thinking personas and that side of stuff
[14:16] <Cheri703> yeah, we didn't talk much about that
[14:17] <Pendulum> and the fact that we need to look at what documentation needs updating/overhauling/to be created
[14:18] <Cheri703> we did talk about creating a document that would explain exactly what accessibility things exist and how they fit together (I think that was in the meeting you're talking about)
[14:26] <UndiFineD> but there has been done a lot of outreach onto various sessions regarding a11y and docu
[14:26] <Pendulum> cool :)
[14:26] <UndiFineD> where appropiate I dropped achecker.ca
[14:27] <UndiFineD> so they themselves can test for it
[14:27] <UndiFineD> which is better then no attention to it at all
[15:12] <fregl> feedback appreciated: https://live.gnome.org/Hackfests/ATK2011/Agenda/EnablingAccessibilityProposal
[15:13] <fregl> maco: ^
[15:15] <maco> fregl: i don't know anything about dbus, but in #kde-accessibility someone wondered whether the reason QT_ACCESSIBILITY had to be set first is that the widgets have to be created post-ATK-startup.. not the case?
[15:15] <fregl> right, I can also post in kde-accessibility ... too many channels :p
[15:15] <fregl> widgets created post atk startup?
[15:15] <fregl> I don't understand
 jpwhiting: dbus signal would work, but I wonder if the qt-bridge assumes its loaded at the start of execution
 ah, as in it only creates accessible objects for widgets as they are created? maybe
 but maybe not, it seems to work right on windows where a signal turns on accessibility (I think from fregl's email)
 jpwhiting: yeah, its cetainly a possibility, I just mean that it might take some work on the bridge to make it work
[15:16] <fregl> well, if I am going to implement this inside Qt, then it's going to work (I hope at least :p)
[15:16] <fregl> no, I can create everything at any time, it just needs a bit of work. but that is required no matter what
[15:17] <maco> cool


[02:04] <duflu> RAOF, are you in WA or were just working late?
[02:04] <RAOF> duflu: I was just on my phone.
[02:05] <duflu> Ooh, right. IRC/matrix/whatever
[05:35] <didrocks> good morning
[06:10] <oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
[06:13] <duflu> Morning didrocks and oSoMoN
[06:15] <oSoMoN> hey duflu, salut didrocks
[06:22] <didrocks> how goes duflu, oSoMoN?
[06:22] <duflu> Going well, didrocks. You?
[06:27] <oSoMoN> doing fine, it's gonna be another beautiful and warm spring day, and hopefully productive, too
[06:28] <duflu> Saturday will be the first day of winter, and 26 degrees :)
[06:49] <didrocks> duflu: I'm good, thanks ;) (Sorry, was busy trello-github-carding)
[06:59] <marcustomlinson> morning all
[06:59] <marcustomlinson> or just didrocks oSoMoN and duflu :)
[07:04] <duflu> Hi marcustomlinson
[07:05] <didrocks> hey marcustomlinson, we are "all" ;)
[07:06] <marcustomlinson> didrocks: ah, there's a public holiday somewhere today hey?
[07:06] <didrocks> marcustomlinson: yes, France & Germany at least
[07:07] <marcustomlinson> didrocks: oh yes, and you opted for tomorrow instead. Nice one
[07:07] <didrocks> yep ;)
[07:17] <seb128> good morning desktopers
[07:17] <duflu> Morning seb128
[07:18] <seb128> hey duflu
[07:18] <marcustomlinson> hey seb128
[07:18] <seb128> hey marcustomlinson
[07:18] <marcustomlinson> you're allowed to take a break hey ;p
[07:25] <seb128> yeah, I'm going to swap it for tomorrow
[07:25] <seb128> I didn't finish things I wanted to get done yesterday
[07:25] <seb128> so better to not cut context and have a long w.e
[08:01] <Laney> morning!
[08:02] <didrocks> good morning Laney
[08:02] <duflu> Morning Laney
[08:02] <Laney> moin didrocks duflu
[08:10] <seb128> hey Laney, how are you?
[08:11] <Laney> yo seb128
[08:15] <Laney> sorry, got distracted *cough*
[08:15] <Laney> i'm good, we saw a nice band at the folk club last night, so i'm happy about that
[08:15] <Laney> you?
[08:30] <seb128> I'm good!
[08:31] <seb128> we were supposed to go out for dinner but the baby sitter was stucked at another place where the parents had to come back some hours later for some reasons
[08:31] <seb128> so we ended up to not do that and I went to tennis instead, which was nice :)
[08:34] <seb128> brb, changing location
[08:49] <seb128> k, back!
[08:50] <Wimpress> o/
[08:51] <duflu>      \o
[08:51] <oSoMoN>    \o/
[08:52] <seb128> :-)
[08:52] <didrocks> good morning Wimpress
[09:20] <seb128> Laney, Trevinho, duflu, do you have any idea about how https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gjs/issues/248 could be done technically?
[09:20] <gitbot> GNOME issue 248 in gjs "gnome-shell JS errors don't trigger report tools" [1. Enhancement, 2. Needs Information, Closed]
[09:21] <duflu> seb128, I think you need to dump core. So abort() etc
[09:22] <duflu> Or if we are after just a JS stack then maybe exit(1) ??
[09:22] <seb128> duflu, see the comments, upstream rejected that idea because it would bypass proper JS engine shutdown
[09:22] <duflu> seb128, yes I know. It's meant to bypass shutdown :S
[09:22] <duflu> Sounds like the job for a distro patch
[09:23] <seb128> well, the way we do it for python we get the backtrace without having to bail out/exit
[09:23] <seb128> I don't know how it's done and if the same thing would be possible in JS though
[09:23] <Laney> there's some kind of way to hook into the exception handler
[09:23] <Laney> for python
[09:23] <seb128> do you know if a similar mechanism exists for js?
[09:24] <Laney> nope, but that is presumably something that "could" be done by gjs
[09:24] <duflu> That sounds desirable. gnome-shell logs stack traces all the time without exiting
[09:24] <Laney> nope I don't know (sorry)
[09:24] <seb128> no worry, I asked in case :)
[09:24] <xnox> oSoMoN:  jamesh: do you know how snap dependencies work, and if this is the right thing to do https://code.launchpad.net/~ken-vandine/ubuntu-seeds/+git/ubuntu/+merge/368102  ? cause like desktop isos should be offline snap seedable. or something like that.
[09:24] <Laney> (not nope there isn't)
[09:25] <duflu> I don't yet buy Phillip's reasoning though. We are only talking about replacing exit() with abort(). If you see leaks in either case you should ignore them
[09:25] <duflu> Or Philip's
[09:25] <seb128> duflu, ah good point, feel free to comment about that on the gitlab issue
[09:25] <duflu> I mean in the latter case at least
[09:26] <duflu> Valgrind can only detect leaks properly using exit()
[09:26] <jamesh> xnox: as I understand it, snapd's seeding process is offline: it expects the set of seeded snaps to fulfil all dependencies
[09:26] <duflu> And to worry about leaking on exceptions only matters for caught exceptions. Uncaught exceptions don't leak because the whole process is gone
[09:27] <xnox> jamesh:  yeah, but i don't know how to check which deps are needed. i guess i should download an iso and check?
[09:27] <Laney> I wouldn't get into that kind of discussion in #ubuntu-desktop
[09:28] <Laney> and actually personally I wouldn't push back on ptomato either unless there's someone who is actually going to work on it
[09:28] <jamesh> xnox: I guess you'd need to download all the snaps in the seed, and check that (a) anything referenced as a base snap is included, and (b) anything referenced by a content interface plug is included
[09:28] <Laney> it's not likely to result in the problem being addressed
[09:28] <duflu> Sounds simple enough. But I'm not starting on another tangent for now
[09:28] <seb128> k, well let's keep it this way for now then
[09:29] <seb128> we might get back to it if someone finds cycles/interest to poke at the problem
[09:29] <seb128> duflu, Laney, thx for the input
[09:29] <Laney> the core dump you'd get from abort() might not even be very useful btw
[09:30] <Laney> i.e. you might actually want to do something from the js side
[09:32] <duflu> Laney, yeah it's not to use the core dump, but to actually get a problem report
[09:32] <duflu> If there's another way to that then great
[09:32] <duflu> Different topic (almost) - I wonder if we could get problem reports for ALL JavaScript stack traces that don't terminate gnome-shell
[09:33] <duflu> That might be very useful for statistical analysis
[09:34] <Laney> something like what we have with https://docs.python.org/3/library/sys.html#sys.excepthook
[09:34] <seb128> I don't think we want to pop an apport dialog every time we have one of those, at least not today
[09:34] <Laney> that's what apport uses for python
[09:34] <duflu> Fair point. We may drown out crashes and not prioritise them
[09:34] <Laney> and it's what Philip was hinting towards with "Is there some API that could be used to trigger the reporting tool that doesn't shut down the program without cleanup?"
[09:34] <oSoMoN> xnox, what james_h said, base snaps and content interfaces, not sure if snapd exposes this information somehow, without requesting an actual install
[09:35] <Laney> I'll comment with a link to the Python thing
[09:35] <duflu> +1
[09:35] <seb128> Laney, thx
[09:37] <xnox> jamesh:  oSoMoN: so i used the snap download tool from livecd-rootfs, and mounted the snap by hand, and I see inside the snap, meta/snap.yaml has things like:
[09:37] <xnox>   gnome-3-28-1804:
[09:37] <xnox>     default-provider: gnome-3-28-1804
[09:37] <xnox>     interface: content
[09:37] <xnox>     target: $SNAP/gnome-platform
[09:37] <xnox> so i guess i will check all of these manually
[09:38] <jamesh> xnox: the default-provider: line is the important part, yeah.  also base: at the top level (but that should only reference "core" or "core18")
[09:39] <oSoMoN> xnox, right, unfortunately it’s still very much a manual process, it'd be nice if snapd offered a way to query for "dependencies"
[09:39] <xnox> yeah
[09:40] <xnox> but it's interesting how i can use the plug mechanism to probably provide prebuilt initrds for the kernel snaps
[09:40] <xnox> hmmmmmm
[09:49] <xnox> kenvandine:  jamesh: oSoMoN: it looks like gtk-common-themes is the only snap that doesn't declare "base: core18"
[09:49] <xnox> if it did, we would be able to build images with just: snapd core18
[09:50] <xnox> but because of gtk-common-themes it looks like we will end up with: core core18
[09:50] <xnox> as the required bases.
[09:51] <jamesh> xnox: it could probably be switched to "base: bare".  While that is one extra base snap, it is 4K
[09:52] <xnox> oooooh
[09:52] <xnox> i like "base: bare"
[09:52] <jamesh> I guess it would also depend on whether snapd is ready to run on classic systems without "core"
[09:52] <xnox> never heard of it.
[09:52] <xnox> i believe it is.
[09:53] <xnox> jamesh:  i guess we should experiment with like stable/ubuntu-19.10 channel first (i.e. switch gtk-common-themes to base:bare and check if we can drop dual-core)
[09:54] <jamesh> or just test on edge.
[09:55] <xnox> eoan dailies are built with stable/ubuntu-19.10 but i think we can request livefs build with an alternative channel.
[09:55] <xnox> (to do a one off edge build)
[10:18] <oSoMoN> GunnarHj, I sponsored {,ibus-}libpinyin for bionic and they're in the unapproved queue, gonna handle cosmic now
[10:32] <oSoMoN> and sponsored to cosmic too
[12:01] <kenvandine> xnox, jamesh: that is intentional.  We need something to ensure core gets installed.  At least at the time 19.04 shipped we still needed that.
[12:06] <seb128> hey kenvandine, how are you?
[12:09] <kenvandine> Hey seb128
[12:10] <kenvandine> I'll check with mvo to see if we can drop that yet
[12:38] <xnox> kenvandine:  snap-tool seeds core/core18 as needed in livecd-rootfs..... ditto snapd. can you explain why it is intentional to pull in core?
[12:39] <kenvandine> The snapd snap wasn't quite ready to work without core installed
[12:39] <kenvandine> They thought it was, but there was a bug
[12:39] <kenvandine> Might be fixed now
[12:40] <kenvandine> When we switched all the snaps to core18 it broke the images
[12:41] <kenvandine> So we switched the themes to core just as a work around to get 19.04 out the door
[12:41] <kenvandine> The themes snap doesn't actually need any base
[12:41] <kenvandine> So that was a workaround
[12:53] <xnox> ah
[12:53] <xnox> thanks!
[13:28] <GunnarHj> Thanks oSoMoN!
[13:55] <xnox> seb128:  i'm sorry, can't reply to your email i'm stuck in a loop-one singing and dancing spice girls songs, because your email had trigger words
[13:55] <seb128> xnox, no worry, it's almost friday then you will be able to get some rest and recover!
[14:00] <xnox> seb128:  seriously my facebook is impossible. their spice world tour is on now, and i'm just flooded with girl power
[14:02] <seb128> click on the "X" button in the corner and be happy!
[14:42] <Laney> JUJUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
[14:43] <Laney> ERROR profile "default": juju does not support IPv6. Disable IPv6 in LXD via:
[14:43] <Laney> 	lxc network set lxdbr0 ipv6.address none
[14:43] <Laney> /o\
[14:49] <seb128> :-(
[14:49] <seb128> k, so in case that's interesting to someone, I hacked a sort of bionic/desktop version report mostly for GNOME components
[14:50] <seb128> it's not a proper service and there are weird things like Debian version forced to 0, but it can help to see where we potentially have GNOME components that have a stable update that could be SRUed
[14:50] <seb128> so mentioning it in case it's useful to others, https://people.canonical.com/~platform/desktop/bionic/versions.html
[14:50] <seb128> or https://people.canonical.com/~platform/desktop/bionic/desktop.html for our set
[15:54] <Trevinho> morning!
[15:54] <oSoMoN> good morning Trevinho
[15:59] <Trevinho> oSoMoN: hey
[17:09] <Laney> moin and bye Trevinho
[17:09] <Laney> seb128: sorry forgot to say earlier, nice one
[17:09]  * Laney has been trying to understand the crowd
[17:10] <Laney> <insert that "i have no idea what i'm doing" meme?
[17:10] <Laney> >
[17:10] <Laney> byeeee
[18:21] <seb128> Laney, :-)
[18:21] <seb128> k, calling it a day
[18:22] <seb128> which means a week since I'm off tomorrow, have a nice evening/w.e desktopers! see you on monday
[18:27] <sarnold> bye seb128, enjoy :)
[19:35] <oSoMoN> enjoy the long week-end seb128
[19:35] <oSoMoN> good night all


[15:23] <charlie-tca> Good morning
[15:36] <cody-somerville> Morning.
[17:28] <charlie-tca> OUCH! Have you seen the wiki now?
[17:31] <charlie-tca> Take a look at http://imagebin.org/122811
[17:32] <davmor2> charlie-tca: click on your name and see if you have the option to change from Ubuntu theme to another?
[17:32] <charlie-tca> And that does ??? for new people?
[17:33] <pleia2> yeah, looks like they rolled out the new wiki version today
[17:34] <charlie-tca> Since I use the old Ubuntu theme, I can read it if I log in, but why should not I be able to read it anyway?
[17:34] <charlie-tca> The new orange links blur bad in the blue header
[17:35] <pleia2> yeah :\
[17:35] <davmor2> charlie-tca: bug it :)
[17:36] <charlie-tca> yeah! I have tried that. last bug I filed, was for not being able to print a page. RESPONSE: Why would you want to print any page?
[17:36] <charlie-tca> bug sits incomplete waiting because they don't like the answer
[17:36] <pleia2> I do suspect the response to this would be "don't use a blue background"
[17:37] <pleia2> does wiki syntax allow for changing the color of links?
[17:37] <charlie-tca> Selecting a different theme in user preferences does
[17:37] <charlie-tca> I don't think syntax allows it, though
[17:38] <charlie-tca> I can change background, text, highlight, tables, etc. As far as I know, not links
[17:38]  * pleia2 nods
[17:43] <cody-somerville> charlie-tca, whats the bug # for not being able to print a page?
[17:45] <charlie-tca> It is referring to www.ubuntu.com - bug 670927
[17:45] <charlie-tca> But I am done fighting that one, cody-somerville


[15:00] <bdrung> \o
[15:00] <dviererbe> o/
[15:01] <liushuyu> o/
[15:01] <dbungert> o/
[15:02] <zhsj> o/
[15:02] <mateus-morais> o/
[15:02] <ogayot-> o/
[15:02] <juliank> #startmeeting Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team
[15:02] <meetingology> Meeting started at 15:02:52 UTC.  The chair is juliank.  Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
[15:02] <meetingology> Available commands: action, commands, idea, info, link, nick
[15:02] <juliank> #topic Lightning rounds
[15:03] <juliank> #link https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/foundations-team-updates-thursday-31-aug-2023/
[15:03] <juliank> I realize I didn't actually write anything yet, /o\
[15:03] <mclemenceau_> o/
[15:05] <vorlon> 'mermaid' what a weird name for a daemon
[15:05] <xypron> o/
[15:16] <juliank> o
[15:16] <juliank> I got a bit distracted sorry
[15:16] <juliank> #topic Release incoming bugs
[15:16] <juliank> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-mm-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
[15:16] <juliank> 5 bugs!
[15:17] <juliank> bug 2033129
[15:17] -ubottu:#ubuntu-meeting- Bug 2033129 in ubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "hplip is in universe and was dropped from Recommends" [Critical, Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2033129
[15:18] <juliank> hplip was dropped to universe as part of cups snap change
[15:18] <juliank> I'm not sure what should be done here
[15:19] <juliank> should we leave that with desktop? but they asked for help
[15:19] <vorlon> this was originally a foundations MIR
[15:19] <vorlon> I was going to ask slyon but I think he's not around at the moment
[15:20] <vorlon> LP: #2028054
[15:20] -ubottu:#ubuntu-meeting- Launchpad bug 2028054 in python-rlpycairo (Ubuntu) "[MIR] python-rlpycairo" [Undecided, Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2028054
[15:20] <juliank> I think we're not sure we need that package in main anymore?
[15:21] <juliank> Should we mark it Incomplete and ask for more information?
[15:21] <vorlon> the comment history in that bug is misleading and appears to be based on an analysis when the plan was to demote this in favor of the snap stack
[15:21] <vorlon> we need someone to actually drive this MIR
[15:21] <juliank> OK, I don't know what the current plan is wrt cups
[15:21] <vorlon> there is no GUI for it - we are shipping the debs for mantic
[15:22] <vorlon> that's why this is back in component-mismatches
[15:22] <vorlon> I had to force-demote hplip because of the universe dep causing image build failures
[15:22] <vorlon> this needs to be re-repromoted before beta, or users are going to get wrong installs at beta time because hplip is a recommends
[15:22] <juliank> Why does it need an MIR process if it was in main and wrongly demoted?
[15:23] <vorlon> (unsatisfied recommends of ubuntu-desktop on the image -> nothing will pull it in later when hplip is promoted to main)
[15:23] <vorlon> juliank: *hplip* was in main.  python-rlpycairo was a new dep of python-reportlab, this is why this MIR was opened
[15:23] <juliank> oh
[15:23] <vorlon> when hplip was demoted, python-reportlab was also demoted, so the new version snuck into the release pocket
[15:23] <juliank> Now I understand
[15:24] <vorlon> I can demote it to proposed, but there are a bunch of other packages that also depend on new python-reportlab so it's a fairly complicated surgery
[15:24] <vorlon> or I can pre-promote the packages to main while the MIR is still open
[15:24] <vorlon> but any which way, the MIR needs followed through on
[15:25] <juliank> My preference would be to demote to python-reportlab depends to suggests and making sure the eroror handling is reasonable
[15:25] <vorlon> it's not
[15:25] <vorlon> I already talked to Till about this
[15:25] <juliank> anyhow how to proceed?
[15:26] <vorlon> (in private messages, so of course none of it is in the bug log)
[15:26] <juliank> leave the bug
[15:26] <juliank> sigh
[15:26] <juliank> leave the bug as is?
[15:26] <vorlon> yes, someone needs to drive the MIR :)
[15:26] <vorlon> and it's a foundations-owned package
[15:27] <vorlon> if I demote packages to -proposed, it's still an open MIR
[15:27] <vorlon> if I pre-promote packages to main before the MIR is done, it's still an open MIR
[15:27] <juliank> We are going a bit in circles here
[15:27] <vorlon> so foundations needs to pick this MIR up and drive it to completion (even if "completion" means "find a way to drop the dep")
[15:28] <vorlon> I don't see why it's a circle, we've identified work that needs to happen and we should just commit to doing it
[15:28] <vorlon> and assign it, and not discuss it further in a plenary meeting :)
[15:28] <juliank> So we should remove the tag, mark it invalid, and mark the mir as foundations-todo
[15:29] <vorlon> sounds good
[15:30] <juliank> bug 2030788
[15:30] -ubottu:#ubuntu-meeting- Bug 2030788 in systemd (Ubuntu) "Usability: 'localectl set-x11-keymap' doesn't work in mantic" [Medium, Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2030788
[15:30] <juliank> enr0n is already assigned
[15:30] <juliank> but it's still incoming, not todo
[15:31] <enr0n> juliank: vorlon tagged it though, I think I had assigned it to myself to keep track of it
[15:31] <juliank> is there anything to do right now?
[15:31] <juliank> I think the bug is fixed in cloud-init?
[15:31] <juliank> Certainly dropping the tag seems right
[15:31] <waveform> correct, cloud-init is now fixed
[15:31] <adrien> ah, that seems to explain my layout issues :P
[15:32] <juliank> I don't think this is foundations-todo right now
[15:33] <juliank> vorlon: do you have another opinion?
[15:33] <vorlon> if cloud-init has succeeded in working around it, then I'm ok with us working around it; the need here was to support cloud-init
[15:33] <juliank> CPC wants to talk further if they think they need more
[15:33] <juliank> ok
[15:33] <juliank> let's keep it open though in case
[15:34] <juliank> because they want to to talk about it more and quoted "'fix'" :D
[15:34] <vorlon> (I am looking askance at Debian for having mangled the systemd interface in this way, but that doesn't per se make it a priority for us)
[15:34] <juliank> bug 2033112
[15:34] -ubottu:#ubuntu-meeting- Bug 2033112 in livecd-rootfs (Ubuntu) "/run in squashfs is not empty" [Undecided, New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2033112
[15:34] <juliank> let's just tag that
[15:35] <juliank> bug 2017401 - we had our meeting but didn't update the bug with the summary
[15:35] -ubottu:#ubuntu-meeting- Bug 2017401 in unattended-upgrades (Ubuntu) "Unexpected / unwanted unattended-upgrades behaviour after kernel upgrade when Livepatch enabled" [Undecided, Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2017401
[15:36] <juliank> vorlon: do you have meeting notes or a better memory than me and can update the bug with the outcomes?
[15:36] <vorlon> right - conclusion was that we're deferring this for now in favor of improved information from canonical-livepatch in the nn cycle
[15:36] <vorlon> I'll update the bug
[15:36] <juliank> and then tag it incoming-nn I guess
[15:36] <juliank> bug 2029148
[15:37] -ubottu:#ubuntu-meeting- Bug 2029148 in ubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "cups snap - can't add printer" [Undecided, In Progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2029148
[15:37] <juliank> the cups snap is still in main though, this is still fix released
[15:37] <juliank> and we have enough bugs to track the MIR
[15:37] <juliank> let's mark it back as Fix Released
[15:38] <vorlon> what do you mean, the snap is in main :)
[15:38] <juliank> The cups deb
[15:38] <vorlon> ok
[15:39] <juliank> https://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ll-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs is empty
[15:39] <juliank> #link https://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-jj-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
[15:39] <juliank> bug 1990798
[15:39] -ubottu:#ubuntu-meeting- Bug 1990798 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "do-release-upgrade fails if ESM enabled" [Critical, Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1990798
[15:40] <juliank> pro team is engaging with that and it's incomplete right now, so let's give a bit more time I guess
[15:41] <juliank> https://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ff-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs only has the same livepatch issue we discussed already
[15:41] <juliank> #topic Team proposed-migration report
[15:41] <juliank> #link https://ubuntu-archive-team.ubuntu.com/proposed-migration/update_excuses_by_team.html#foundations-bugs
[15:41] <juliank> vorlon:
[15:41] <juliank> Can we remove the time-daemon package again?
[15:41] <vorlon> yes
[15:42] <vorlon> has the germinate change landed? :)
[15:42] <juliank> Not yet, cjwatson hasn't gotten around to reviewing it yet
[15:42] <juliank> But we also don't need to wait for the server side as the syntax is ignored by older germinate
[15:42] <juliank> We could just update the deb
[15:43] <juliank> Either way, the package being present is confusing people as I've seen earlier today
[15:43] <vorlon> juliank: last week you had forgotten to start working on tzdata, is it on your radar now?
[15:43] <juliank> sadly not
[15:43] <bdrung> I'll take care of dask
[15:43] <juliank> It eluded the pulse
[15:44] <cjwatson> I'm reviewing the germinate change at the moment, amid the other N things
[15:44] <bdrung> then only gnustep-base remains blocking tzdata
[15:44] <cjwatson> vorlon: you currently have a Needs Fixing vote on that germinate MP - could you look at it again?
[15:44] <vorlon> juliank: so will you put it in the pulse?  these are supposed to be committed on a weekly basis
[15:44] <juliank> when I find it
[15:45] <vorlon> cjwatson: I was just asking for a test case, which I'm not going to second-guess - marked approved now
[15:45] <juliank> I think the problem is its not in the pulse view because it's not triaged
[15:45] <juliank> Hmm it is triaged, but it simply doesn't pop up in JIRA backlog view
[15:45] <vorlon> ubiquity - I said this was back with mwhudson but he's quite busy with work on newer installers
[15:45] <vorlon> bdrung: any chance you want to follow up on ubiquity?
[15:46] <cjwatson> vorlon: yeah, that's fine, I just didn't want to merge it over your head
[15:46] <bdrung> vorlon, it's on my todo list for next week (spending all the time this week for +1)
[15:46] <vorlon> bdrung: ok thanks
[15:47] <vorlon> s390-tools is blocked on an MIR which is tagged foundations-todo but not assigned; LP: #2030482.  Do we need to find an owner for this?
[15:47] -ubottu:#ubuntu-meeting- Launchpad bug 2030482 in s390-tools (Ubuntu) "[MIR] s390-tools Rust dependencies (vendored)" [Undecided, Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2030482
[15:47] <schopin> s390-tools is blocked by an MIR.
[15:47] <schopin> vorlon: I'm the owner :)
[15:47] <vorlon> schopin: should I assign the bug to you?
[15:47] <schopin> I'm just waiting on some details from fheimes.
[15:47] <schopin> Sure.
[15:48] <vorlon> and new from last week is tpm2-tss
[15:48]  * vorlon shakes the dice bag
[15:48] <vorlon> liushuyu: can you take this?
[15:48] <liushuyu> vorlon: okay
[15:49] <vorlon> and that's all for now
[15:49] <cjwatson> juliank: germinate change merged and uploaded to unstable.  feel free to sync it into mantic once Debian publishing and the LP import catch up.  I also updated<EMAIL_ADDRESS>local copy of it for good measure.
[15:49] <juliank> cjwatson: thanks!
[15:51] <vorlon> juliank: back to you
[15:52] <juliank> #topic AOB
[15:52] <schopin> https://bugs.launchpad.net/subiquity/+bug/2029479 was tagged by fheimes but since it's on subiquity it never made it into the report.
[15:52] -ubottu:#ubuntu-meeting- Launchpad bug 2029479 in Ubuntu on IBM z Systems "mantic daily (on s390x) does not reboot (post-install) from correct disk" [Undecided, New]
[15:54] <dbungert> this one is strange, there is a claim that the chirep tool is not being used correctly but it hasn't changed.  at any rate we need to investigate this subiquity side, yes.
[15:54] <juliank> tagging it foundations-todo
[15:54] <dbungert> thanks
[15:54] <juliank> with a typo lol
[15:56] <juliank> more aob?
[15:56] <mclemenceau_> Monday is public holiday in the US
[15:57] <vorlon> I'm out for the Monday holiday, and then again Wed/Thu next week for a medical thing, so not here for the next meeting
[15:57] <juliank> :(
[15:58] <schopin> I'm out on a short 1-week vacation starting tonight :)
[15:59] <juliank> I think that wraps up the IRC meeting! Thanks everyone!
[15:59] <juliank> #endmeeting
[15:59] <meetingology> Meeting ended at 15:59:07 UTC.  Minutes at https://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2023/ubuntu-meeting.2023-08-31-15.02.moin.txt


[12:48] <brendand> BuildYourOwnKernel suggests I use apt-get source linux-image-$(uname -r) to get the source for my kernel, but when I do that I end up with the source for linux-image-3.0.0-12-generic, but I had linux-image-3.0.0-13-generic installed?
[14:05] <brendand> what are the config options that enable gcov?
[17:29] <Q-FUNK> I seem to have missed the kernel falavor session. is there a wiki page summarizing what was discussed or decided?
[17:29] <Q-FUNK> flavor, even