[09:55] <yann2> Hello! I am trying to use cloud-init with FOG and rackspace, but am failing miserably. It seems that my  mime encoded cloudinit script is properly copied to /var/lib/cloud/seed/nocloud-net/user-data  , but it doesnt appear to be run... not sure where I should look to see whats wrong... any idea? the rackspace examples I found on the web didnt work
[14:23] <smoser> SpamapS, yeah, i have creds to that private key.
[14:23] <smoser> but it is separate by design from my private key.
[14:23] <smoser> i'll sign it and upload
[14:26] <jclift> yann2: Does the script work when it's not mime encoded?
[14:27] <jclift> yann2: Also, there's a log file in /var/log/cloud-init.log
[14:27] <yann2> jclift, yes, actually I got it to run using nova client
[14:28] <jclift> k, so it sounds like the mime encoding is busting it somehow
[14:28] <jclift> yann2: I've not tried using mime encoded version
[14:28] <jclift> yann2: At a guess, you'll probably need to look through /var/log/cloud-init.log to see if there's anything there
[14:29] <yann2> trying this now http://pastealacon.com/34262  - I think the problem is that rackspace only tries to get cloud init files from config disks by default and not from /var
[14:30] <yann2> jclift, the only error seem to be unrelated and linked to a "ubuntu" user that is not found.. the rest seems to be rackspace stuf
[14:31] <yann2> 2014-04-07 14:27:13,937 - __init__.py[WARNING]: Unhandled non-multipart userdata '   < maybe that
[14:31] <jclift> yann2: Hmmm, I don't use Ubuntu so no idea there
[14:31] <jclift> Yeah, that warning could be significant
[14:32] <jclift> yann2: Are you able to put your proper #cloud-config file on a webserver somewhere, and then point to it using an #include?
[14:32] <jclift> yann2: This is what I use as a #cloud-config file: https://forge.gluster.org/glusterfs-rackspace-regression-tester/glusterfs-rackspace-regression-tester/blobs/raw/master/remote_centos6.cfg
[14:32] <yann2> There is also this file in /etc/cloud/cloud.cfg.d/90_dpkg.cfg that contains this datasource_list: [ ConfigDrive ]
[14:33] <yann2> so I assume my only way to include additional cloud init config would be via the configdrive...
[14:33] <jclift> yann2: I pass that remote_centos6.cfg in to the local VM via config drive, and then cloud-init goes and retrieves the external URLs itself
[14:34] <jclift> yann2: Is the mime-encoded script showing up in /var/lib/cloud/instance/user_data ?
[14:34] <jclift> Or /var/lib/cloud/instance/user_data.i ?
[14:35] <yann2> jclift, cf my last paste, I am now trying to see if I can pass the cloud init file directly to the config file, a bit like the nova client does here  http://developer.rackspace.com/blog/using-cloud-init-with-rackspace-cloud.html
[14:37] <jclift> yann2: I'm using cloud-init with Pyrax in rackspace
[14:37] <yann2> but otherwise, yeah, when i used to copy files using personality, the file showed up mime encoded at the right place ('/var/lib/cloud/seed/nocloud-net/user-data' ) but I think cloud init is not configured to read it
[14:38] <yann2> jclift, and where do you put the cloud init configuration?
[14:38] <jclift> Unfortunately, it's not documented (so I should write up some docs for it to help the next guy)
[14:39] <jclift> yann2: Are you ok with Python?
[14:39] <yann2> I can read, yes, but I need ruby
[14:40] <jclift> k.  This might be helpful for reading then.  It's kind of spagetti code atm though... I need to clean it up.  But it works. https://forge.gluster.org/glusterfs-rackspace-regression-tester/glusterfs-rackspace-regression-tester/blobs/master/create_servers.py
[14:40] <jclift> yann2: Line 179 is where the new server instance is created
[14:41] <jclift> yann2: One of the parameters to the call which creates the new server is "userdata".
[14:41] <yann2> thanks a lot for your help, I ll read this :)
[14:41] <jclift> yann2: I provide the #cloud-config file to that, which passes it automatically to cloud-init using config drive
[14:41] <jclift> (note that I have config_drive=True as another parameter)
[14:42] <jclift> yann2: The #cloud-config file I use, is that "remote-centos6.cfg" thing
[14:42] <jclift> So, when cloud-init starts up, it gets given that remote-centos6.cfg file.  It reads that, noticing it starts with #include, then goes and gets the URLs on the next two lines.
[14:43] <jclift> Those URL contain what actually needs to be done
[14:43] <jclift> The first is a proper #cloud-config thing
[14:43] <jclift> The seconds is a script to execute after the #cloud-config thing has fully run
[14:43] <jclift> s/seconds/second/
[14:44] <yann2> so you use config_drive as well
[14:44] <yann2> and userdata = ci_config... should be very similar to what I m doig...
[14:45] <jclift> yann2: As a thought, when I was getting my head around cloud-init for the first time last week, I spun up the various VM's remotely (like you), then logged into them to try and figure out wtf was happening
[14:45] <jclift> yann2: Yeah, it sounds similar
[14:45] <yann2> so ci_config is not mime encoded, nor base64 encoded
[14:46] <jclift> Correct. Have you logged into a VM, and mounted /dev/xvde to a temp spot to see what's being passed via config_drive?
[14:46] <jclift> yann2: The userdata= argument here can actually be just a newly opened file handle.  You don't even need to read in the contents.
[14:46] <yann2> nope, good idea
[14:47] <jclift> yann2: Yeah, mount /dev/xvde to a temp spot, and take a look through it's structure
[14:47] <jclift> yann2: Helps to get a better conceptual understanding of wtf is going on :)
[14:47] <yann2> indeed.. its xvdd here, where would my userdata be?
[14:48] <jclift> Ahh yeah. xvdd is right
[14:48] <jclift> xvde is the data drive
[14:48] <jclift> Sorry
[14:48] <jclift> Been using xvde a lot over the weekend :)
[14:49] <yann2> mhhh
[14:49] <yann2> so I have a xvdd with bunch of jsons, and no xvde
[14:49] <jclift> That just means you're using a VM type without an additional data disk
[14:49] <jclift> eg 512 Standard or 1GB Performance
[14:50] <jclift> Don't get hung up on xvde thing.  That was my mistage
[14:50] <jclift> mistake
[14:50] <yann2> ok
[14:50] <jclift> My typing sucketh today ;)
[14:50] <yann2> cant see my config copied anywhere on the config disk though
[14:50] <jclift> yann2: Is this similar to what you're seeing? http://fpaste.org/92259/96882152/
[14:51] <yann2> yep
[14:52] <yann2> is my  user_data supposed to be copied somewhere there?
[14:52] <jclift> yeah
[14:52] <jclift> New paste: http://fpaste.org/92262/13968823/
[14:53] <jclift> That shows the same mount, but also shows the user_data file that was pulled in by the userdata= parameter in my Pyrax call
[14:54] <jclift> That file gets placed into /var/lib/cloud/instance/user_data
[14:54] <jclift> After the remote urls are grabbed, the result is /var/lib/cloud/instance/user_data.i, which is then run/processed/whatever
[14:54] <yann2> yeah your ci_config variable actually contains the content of the file
[14:54] <jclift> Yeah
[14:54] <yann2> so this file is a cloud init config file
[14:55] <jclift> Yeah
[14:55] <yann2> and if i read it right you do not base64encode it nor is it mime encoded
[14:55] <jclift> Correct
[14:55] <yann2> I ll show you my script give me a sec
[14:55] <jclift> I don't base64 or otherwise touch it
[14:55] <jclift> k
[14:57] <yann2> http://pastealacon.com/34263
[14:58] <jclift> Does it work like that?
[14:58] <yann2> I dont have a user_data in openstack/latest though
[14:58] <yann2> nope
[14:59] <yann2> I mean it runs and creates the vm, but no userdata in the config disk
[14:59] <yann2> maybe its a question for fog...
[14:59] <jclift> What happens if you try "userdata" instead of "user_data" ?
[14:59]  * jclift noticed some inconsistency in naming around user_data and userdata
[15:00] <jclift> Some parts of Nova require "user_data"
[15:00] <jclift> But Pyrax definitely needs it as userdata
[15:00] <yann2> https://github.com/fog/fog/blob/f531f0bdd715e6f0e3008b35535834ad8e854ec1/lib/fog/cloudstack/models/compute/server.rb
[15:00] <yann2> seems to be an alias, lets try it..
[15:10] <yann2> still no success :'(
[15:10] <jclift> Damn
[15:10] <jclift> Hmmm, maybe time to ask the Fog guys then
[15:10] <yann2> yep..
[15:10] <jclift> Do they have an example of working Fog code with userdata you could copy to experiment with?
[15:12] <yann2> dont know, I just asked on #ruby-fog
[15:15] <yann2> found this, but its old http://pastebin.com/n6fRuF0C  :D
[15:18] <jclift> yann2: Heh, well "Good Luck" I guess.  I'm not into Ruby... hopefully the Fog guys can help. :)
[15:19] <yann2> yeah thanks, I think it's supported by the openstack compute but not the rackspace one...
[15:20] <yann2> I ll try my luck with a bug report
[15:25] <yann2> opened a bug there https://github.com/fog/fog/issues/2824  let's wait and see
[15:53] <yann2> jclift, trying my luck patching fog, wish me luck ;)
[15:58] <jclift> :)
[15:58] <jclift> Definitely good luck!
[16:00] <yann2> yeah man, epic skills here :) I ll do a pull request this evening
[16:11] <jclift> :)
[16:35] <sauce> i am using cloud-init for the first time. using it with EC2. i created a very simple user-data #cloud-config file (see here http://pastebin.com/gE8C0M1d).  i am using centos6.4 AMI's from cloudmarket.com that say "with cloud-init installed".  when I do "ec2-run-instances -f myuserdata.yaml", it boots up fine, i can see cloud-init is installed, but my user-data file was not taken into consideration. anyone know why?
[16:55] <smoser> sauce, what is the version of cloud-init ?
[16:57] <yann2> https://github.com/yannh/fog/commit/e335084b200e88263f739a867366afd97fc6b0cb  jclift , for what its worth
[16:57] <yann2> testing a bit more before sending my pull request :)
[16:57] <harlowja> smoser so when we switching cloud-init to git? ;)
[16:59] <smoser> harlowja, i try to avoid flamewars.
[16:59] <harlowja> lol
[17:04] <SpamapS> smoser: cool. I just fetched the key from keyserver.ubuntu.com and it does not have your signature on it.
[17:04] <SpamapS> really any signatures on it
[17:05] <yann2> https://github.com/fog/fog/pull/2826/files now just need a nice soul to merge it and I should be good
[17:06] <smoser> SpamapS, i can sign it. thats fine. the thing i didn't know is what i should sign.
[17:06] <smoser> its a subkey
[17:08] <yann2> alright, off for today, thanks a lot for all your help jclift that was immensely useful
[17:08] <yann2> have a nice day/evening
[17:20] <smoser> SpamapS, i signed now. and put onto keyserver.ubuntu.com .
[17:29] <SpamapS> smoser: sign the main key. The point is to allow downloaders to verify the key without prayer. ;)
[17:30] <smoser> SpamapS, yeah. i did, right?
[17:38] <SpamapS> smoser: indeed, well done :)
[17:45] <sauce> smoser cloud-init-0.5.15-68.el6_bashton1.noarch
[17:47] <sauce> smoser nevermind, cloud-init did run. i tried it with some low level stuff like touch /tmp/file1 and it did.  now i gotta figure out why the puppet module didnt work
[17:47] <sauce> while i am here, whats the best way to add a host to /etc/hosts with cloud-init?
[17:50] <smoser> sauce, that is old
[17:51] <smoser> i really dont know what support there would be in something called that version.
[17:51] <smoser> without looking. so that i'd be my first guess.
[17:51] <smoser> wrt /etc/hosts, you can modify the apprpriate template file with a boothook.
[17:52] <SpamapS> smoser: note that it would be quite useful now if you started either signing the images, or producing SHA256SUMS
[17:52] <SpamapS> smoser: MD5 is broken
[17:53] <smoser> i am signing the images.
[17:53] <smoser> http://cloud-images.ubuntu.com/releases/streams/v1/com.ubuntu.cloud:released:download.sjson
[17:53] <smoser> thats the preferred way.
[17:53] <SpamapS> preferred by who?
[17:54] <harlowja> 0.5.15, woah
[17:54] <smoser> err.. wait. bad link.
[17:54] <SpamapS> I can use jq to grab those sha256sums tho .. so that works
[17:54] <harlowja> sauce u are on rhel6?
[17:54] <smoser> http://download.cirros-cloud.net/streams/v1/net.cirros-cloud:devel:download.sjson
[17:54] <sauce> 6.4, about 1 year old
[17:54] <harlowja> http://repos.fedorapeople.org/repos/openstack/cloud-init/ should be newer :)
[17:55] <harlowja> although i thought u could install a newer one
[17:55] <harlowja> 0.7.2 is much better ;)
[17:55] <SpamapS> smoser: color me old fashioned.. but a .asc file for each image would be um.. a bazillion times preferrable to that for scripting. :-P
[17:55] <SpamapS> smoser: but I can work with it. :-P
[17:56] <smoser> i agree that having FILE.asc is simpler for scripting.
[17:57] <SpamapS> jq has at least made json available to bash
[17:59] <SpamapS> smoser: would be quite helpful if this format actually had a _list_ for the products. :-P
[18:00] <smoser> list ?
[18:00] <smoser> its a dict
[18:00] <smoser> because the products is a key
[18:01] <SpamapS> smoser: so to find latest version, I should still use /version/released ?
[18:01] <SpamapS> smoser: Yeah, but I have to sort the keys to find the latest. :-P
[18:01]  * SpamapS will call the whambulance
[18:01] <SpamapS> smoser: just whining. :)
[18:02] <jclift> sauce: There's modern cloud-init in EPEL isn't there?
[18:03] <sauce> jclift im just being lazy and using someone elses AMI
[18:03] <sauce> rather than create my own
[18:03] <smoser> SpamapS, http://paste.ubuntu.com/7218123/
[18:03] <jclift> Heh.  Doesn't seem to be working for you in this instance. :(
[18:03] <smoser> that is secure and allows you to easily point it at a mirror if you want.
[18:03] <smoser> and '--max=1' does the sorting for you.
[18:04] <harlowja> sauce i'd recommend at least upgrading the AMI cloud-init version :)
[18:04] <SpamapS> $ sstream-query
[18:04] <SpamapS> sstream-query: command not found
[18:04] <SpamapS> smoser: no package suggestion. :(
[18:05] <SpamapS> smoser: also I have a really giant set of Fedora users so I have to be mindful of hard it will be for them to use.
[18:05] <smoser> $ dpkg -S `which sstream-query`
[18:05] <smoser> simplestreams: /usr/bin/sstream-query
[18:05] <smoser> SpamapS, that giant set of users installs random garbage from pip all the time.
[18:06] <smoser> so... not being packaged isn't a *huge* thing.
[18:06] <harlowja> bad users
[18:06] <SpamapS> smoser: oh we're quite happy to abuse pip :)
[18:06] <smoser> so i should get a simpelstreams into pip.
[18:07] <sauce> ubuntu's official EC2 ami's use: 0.6.3-0ubuntu1.10
[18:08] <SpamapS> smoser: yes. but for now, jq will suffice
[18:08] <smoser> jq ?
[18:10] <harlowja> http://stedolan.github.io/jq/
[18:10] <harlowja> those bash people
[18:10] <harlowja> lol
[18:11] <SpamapS> --[18:11] <harlowja> lol
[18:11] <smoser> its C ?
[18:11] <SpamapS> smoser: also, you have files that are '.gpg' but they have .asc content in them
[18:11] <SpamapS> smoser: yeah tiny little utility, we use it everywhere to process json
[18:12] <smoser> thats nice.
[18:14] <smoser> SpamapS, i dont think i started that.
[18:14] <smoser> the little i know came from modelling ubuntu
[18:14] <smoser> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-server/daily/current/MD5SUMS.gpg
[18:14] <SpamapS> sure
[18:14] <SpamapS> they did it wrong too :)
[18:15] <SpamapS> it confuses gpg, you have to tell it that it is ascii armored detached
[18:16] <harlowja> i left my ascii armor at home :-/
[18:17] <smoser> SpamapS, well that sucks.
[18:17] <smoser> my damned ignorance keeps getting in the way.
[18:17] <smoser> the sstreams code only really handles the inline signed anyway.
[18:28] <SpamapS> smoser: Yeah, and the inlined signed is kind of hard to use w/ jq.. as I have to strip off the signature.. :-P
[18:29] <smoser> right. so we need to improve jq for inline signed json
[18:31] <SpamapS> smoser: jq example:
[18:31] <SpamapS> $ jq '.["products"]["net.cirros-cloud:standard:0.3:i386"]["versions"] | keys | sort | max' net.cirros-cloud\:released\:download.json
[18:31] <SpamapS> "20140317"
[18:32] <SpamapS> see how hard that is. :-P
[18:33] <SpamapS> $ jq '.["products"]["net.cirros-cloud:standard:0.3:i386"]["versions"]["20140317"]["items"]["disk.img"]["sha256"]' net.cirros-cloud\:released\:download.json
[18:33] <SpamapS> "f0803c2d179c8a02d029239d35fc3e752cc81ad3436ea52b757e11685ca7c074"
[18:34] <smoser> see how much easier it was with the tool i gave you ?
[18:35] <SpamapS> smoser: is it on pypi yet?
[18:35] <smoser> its not. i can put it there, although i've never done that before.
[18:36] <smoser> so again with the damned ignorance getting in my way.
[18:39] <SpamapS> smoser: I've got a jq solution. It's not horrible. But if/when you do get it on pypi, please let me know so I can switch.
[18:39] <smoser> SpamapS, are you looking to put that into devstack ?
[18:39] <smoser> or elsewhere
[18:42] <SpamapS> devstack is dead to me :)
[18:42] <SpamapS> but it should go there too yes
[18:42] <SpamapS> smoser: TripleO devtest yes
[18:42] <SpamapS> smoser: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/83347/
[18:44] <smoser> well, its interesting actually. both of them are.
[18:44] <smoser> from the "continuous integration" perspective.
[18:45] <smoser> in that I can randomly change / break things.
[19:00] <sauce> where can i get full cloud-init docs other than http://cloudinit.readthedocs.org/en/latest/?  the Modules section is empty, and i feel that the examples don't list everything.
[19:01] <sauce> i.e. it's not clear how to add a 3rd party apt repo
[19:02] <sauce> i would even settle for code to look through.  where are the modules stored?
[19:08] <smoser> sauce, you get docs for the version you'r using in the package you're using.
[19:09] <smoser> the config modules are stored in cloudinit/modules/cc_*
[19:09] <smoser> (except they might be different in 0.5.x)
[19:09] <smoser> to add a 3rd party apt repo is trivial
[19:09] <smoser> and is shown at http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~cloud-init-dev/cloud-init/trunk/view/head:/doc/examples/cloud-config.txt#L21
[19:10] <harlowja> SpamapS u say devstack is dead??
[19:10] <harlowja> intersting
[19:16] <harlowja> SpamapS u know u want to use anvil, lol
[19:23] <SpamapS> harlowja: I say that devstack is dead _to me_
[19:24] <SpamapS> harlowja: we use devtest.. because multi-node matters. :)
[19:24] <harlowja> lol
[19:24] <harlowja> ya
[19:34] <sauce> thanks smoser !
[19:34] <sauce> smoser you say the docs come with the package, i have no man cloud-init though
[19:36] <smoser> sauce, in ubuntu they're in /usr/share
[19:37] <smoser> in centos or whatever, id' rpm -qa | grep -i doc
[19:42] <sauce> thanks sir
[19:43] <sauce> i switched to ubuntu for now. i want to learn cloud-init in ubuntu first, then i'll go to centos
[19:48] <smoser> or just stay on a sane OS :)
[19:49] <smoser> although, to be fair, 2.6.18 was a good kernel.
[20:07] <smoser> sauce, i was making fun of centos.
[20:07] <sauce> i know i know
[20:07] <smoser> :)
[20:07] <sauce> we are working on building a new app at work, and i have the opportunity to choose the linux distro
[20:08] <sauce> i want to use ubuntu, but that's just the kid in me talking
[20:25] <sauce> hey smoser, i'm gonna paste somethin in chan, forgive me
[20:25] <sauce> apt_sources: - source: deb http://apt.puppetlabs.com $RELEASE main dependencies
[20:25] <sauce>    keyid: 4BD6EC30    # GPG key ID published on a key server
[20:25] <sauce>    filename: puppetlabs.list
[20:26] <sauce> i can't get that to work. i troubleshooted down to the "keyid" line. if i comment it out, cloud-init works
[20:32] <smoser> sauce, indentation is important.
[20:32] <smoser> youc an see that what you're going to get is sane by just doing somethin glike:
[20:33] <smoser> python -c 'import yaml, pprint, sys; pprint.pprint(yaml.load(open(sys.argv[0])))' my.file
[20:33] <sauce> also maybe yamllint.com ?
[20:34] <smoser> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7218786/
[20:34] <smoser> sure.
[20:36] <sauce> yamllint.com says the yaml is OK but outputs it vastly different than it appears in examples
[20:36] <sauce> lemme try python
[20:39] <sauce> i don't think indentation is the problem here
[20:44] <smoser> sauce, its not that its valid or not.
[20:44] <smoser> its that the result is int he right format
[20:44] <sauce> i hear ya
[20:44] <smoser> apt_sources is a list of dictionaries
[20:44] <sauce> i don't see how i can be messing up the indentation
[20:44] <sauce> its just a few spaces, everything is lined up
[20:44] <sauce> i deleted the line and rewrote it char by char
[20:45] <sauce> "filename" works with the same indentation
[20:45] <sauce> keyid doesn't
[20:45] <smoser> hm.
[20:45] <sauce> i know right
[20:45] <smoser> pastebin /var/log/cloud-init.log ?
[20:46] <sauce> absolutely hang on
[20:47] <sauce> welp there ya go: Apr  7 20:42:26 ip-10-30-4-54 [CLOUDINIT] cc_apt_update_upgrade.py[WARNING]: Source Error: deb http://apt.puppetlabs.com precise main dependencies:failed to get key from keyserver.ubuntu.com
[20:49] <smoser> sauce, its actuall preferable from both security and reliability perspective to insert the full key
[20:49] <sauce> running this again, lemme check
[20:50] <sauce> smoser ok i will try that
[20:50] <smoser> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~cloud-init-dev/cloud-init/trunk/view/head:/doc/examples/cloud-config.txt#L120
[20:50] <smoser> hte example there.
[20:50] <smoser> its more reliable because you dont depend on the keyserver
[20:51] <smoser> and int his case all you're really using it for is a object store to map <short_key_id> to <public key>
[20:56] <sauce> i gotcha.  i pasted the key block and it validated as yaml. running it now.
[20:57] <sauce> many ec2 instances have died at my hand stoday
[20:57] <sauce> hands today
[20:58] <smoser> sauce, for playing, you can use lxc or kvm
[20:58] <smoser> lxc you can use quite performantly inside a ec2 instance
[20:58] <smoser> see example here: http://ubuntu-smoser.blogspot.com/2013/08/lxc-with-fast-cloning-via-overlayfs-and.html
[20:58] <sauce> while this is running i have another question: can i specify the order that things are run? i.e. i want to install puppetlabs repo, then use the puppet module
[20:59] <sauce> nice the key worked!!
[20:59] <sauce> and it installed in the right order, that was a 50/50 chance probably right?
[20:59] <smoser> well, no. :)
[20:59] <smoser> puppet module runs after apt_config
[20:59] <smoser> and that is by design
[20:59] <smoser> you can specify the order of things
[21:00] <smoser> just define the list in your user-data
[21:00] <smoser> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~cloud-init-dev/cloud-init/trunk/view/head:/config/cloud.cfg
[21:00] <smoser> the easiest thing to do is just re-define the whole list
[21:00] <smoser> cloud_init_modules runs first, then cloud_config_modules, then cloud_final_modules
[21:01] <smoser> nd the listst there in order.
[21:01] <smoser> you really should take a look at that blog post, it makes testing this stuff really easy and much faste rthan waiting on instances in amazon
[21:02] <sauce> awesome smoser
[21:03] <sauce> just awesome
[21:06] <smoser> thanks.
[21:22] <sauce> why do i even need puppet, if i have cloud-init?


[04:23] <SergioMeneses> philballew, hey hey man!
[04:23] <SergioMeneses> good evening
[04:32] <epikvision> hey SergioMeneses! Hello philballew!
[04:33] <epikvision> good evening everyone
[04:33] <SergioMeneses> epikvision, hey hey
[04:33] <SergioMeneses> whats up?
[04:33] <epikvision> I'm fine. and you?
[04:37] <epikvision> :-)
[04:39] <SergioMeneses> epikvision, fine working but happy
[04:39] <epikvision> Me too.  Thanksgiving feels great here.  Had the entire week off!
[04:39] <epikvision> Still 4 more days to relax


[23:34] <j_clbrt> sqweek, i think u could probably change to permissions on it
[23:34] <djabbour> sqweek, No, that's impossible. I have to be able to fix this. Any ideas what I could do to the application code?
[23:34] <johnnny> i have a problem: I just installed ubuntu 8.04 LTS, all good, but when I go in VI to edit a file, and use the arrows, it gives me the letters : A B C and D on new lines :(    ... any clues ?
[23:34] <superfirelord42> j_clbrt, i guess that means i am wrong
[23:34] <djabbour> sqweek, or any resources you recommend I read to get a better understanding
[23:34] <luke_> Izinucs, Alright
[23:34] <sqweek> djabbour: work out what VT_ACTIVATE does
[23:34] <Izinucs> luke_: go to applications>accessories>terminal and in the terminal type ( sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade ).. this will update you system then check the previous location again for nvidia drivers available.
[23:35] <j_clbrt> ro: did you boot off the CD or did you do it from within windows?
[23:35] <ro> j_clbrt,  how do install grub and what happened to my windows
[23:35] <Izinucs> luke_: without the "(" or ")"
[23:35] <LEX_WELL> Does anybody can help me I'm  a noob?
[23:35] <j_clbrt> well first tell me ro did you install ubuntu from inside windows
[23:35] <j_clbrt> or did you boot off the live CD
[23:35] <ortsvorsteher> !anyone | LEX_WELL
[23:35] <ro> j_clbrt,  form inside windows
[23:35] <j_clbrt> oh
[23:35] <j_clbrt> shit
[23:35] <superfirelord42> LEX_WELL, you have to be more specific, what do you need help with, what is wrong, etc.
[23:35] <Izinucs> !ask | LEX_WELL
[23:35] <ortsvorsteher> !details | LEX_WELL
[23:35] <j_clbrt> this is gonna be a lot harder to fix then
[23:35] <El> hey how can i use microsoft office on ubuntu
[23:36] <Izinucs> El: why when you have Open Office.?
[23:36] <j_clbrt> i think u may have accidentally deleted windows when messing with the partitions
[23:36] <_Vi_> El: i don tthink you can
[23:36] <superfirelord42> ro, just out of curiosity, do you have any backups?
 mainly for school the docs are templates that work on MS pluss its better
[23:36] <ro> j_clbrt,  i just learnt to reboot in cd thru the bios options so i installed linux thru windows
[23:37]  * johnnny needs help :P
[23:37] <ro> superfirelord42, my windows is baked up already
[23:37] <superfirelord42> j_clbrt, if its just a partition table, there are tools to fix it, or did he mess up the partition itself?
 i wassnt sure if i could i heard about somthing called crossover
[23:37] <_Vi_> johnnny: if you open that using vim instead of vi does that help?
[23:37] <johnnny> _Vi_: checking
[23:37] <_Vi_> El: isnt crossover for mac?
[23:37] <j_clbrt> superfirelord42, unfortunately he used Wubi, which does not create a seperate partition for windows
[23:38] <johnnny> _Vi_: it's beautiful!!!
[23:38] <johnnny> but.. :O
[23:38] <johnnny> i type vi :P
[23:38] <ro> j_clbrt, yes i installed linux thru windows but everything was working fine until now
[23:38] <LEX_WELL> I'm trying to install a driver for my Intel  945gm video card
[23:38] <Izinucs> El: templates might work in Open Office and you can also save in MS format.. Better? that's very subjective .. for the vast majority of people it doesn't make one hoot of difference..
[23:38] <j_clbrt> so it seems that in order to fix it he is gonna need to restore windows then reboot off the Live CD and create a seperate ext3 partition for ubuntu
[23:38] <superfirelord42> j_clbrt, yeah, but his issue origionally was windows was being detected as ext3, so did he accidently mess up the tables, or did he corrupt the partition
[23:38] <j_clbrt> ro: what were u doing before it broke?
[23:38] <_Vi_> johnnny: theres also gvim too or vim -g
[23:38] <LEX_WELL> I got the files from the http://intellinuxgraphics.org/testing.html
[23:39] <j_clbrt> oh wiat..... u mean it said windows was installed on an ext3 partition superfirelord42 ?
[23:39] <LEX_WELL> I belive that the files are fine
[23:39] <johnnny> _Vi_: i only run in console (im in server-mode)
[23:39] <j_clbrt> he cnt do that
[23:39] <j_clbrt> it needs to be ntfs or FAT32
[23:39] <superfirelord42> j_clbrt, yeah, i belive thats what he came in here to fix
[23:39] <ro> j_clbrt,  i was in livecd trying to merge the unallocated part into my sda2 ext
[23:39] <j_clbrt> preferably NTFS
[23:39] <superfirelord42> it was being detected as that
[23:39] <johnnny> _Vi_: I'm guessing gvim is a gnome X thingny ?
[23:39] <_Vi_> johnnny: ah use vim then if you can
[23:40] <j_clbrt> ro: do you have Gparted by chance
[23:40] <LEX_WELL> but I don't know how to use a install.sh
[23:40] <Ketrel> If I want to make a cron job that would affect a file not owned by me (that I need to use sudo to change) how would I do that?
[23:40] <_Vi_> johnnny: gvim is GUI point and clicky yeah
[23:40] <johnnny> _Vi_: is there aparticular reason for this variation between "vi" and "vim" with arrows ?
[23:40] <ro> j_clbrt, Yes that is what i was using
[23:40] <j_clbrt> ok... when you are in linux can you see your windows partition right now?
[23:40] <_Vi_> johnnny: that im not sure why its doing that to you.. try google maybe for an answer
[23:40] <johnnny> _Vi_: just wondering, cuz I'll fix it if i can
[23:40] <ortsvorsteher> LEX_WELL: just got to install.sh location in terminal, but btw, why you are use foreign drivers? which ubuntu version you use?
[23:41] <Neremor> hm i have another curl problem
[23:41] <Neremor> it is about the loggin with curl
[23:41] <j_clbrt> ro: when you are in linux can you see your windows partition right now?
[23:41] <jsfoxton> hi peeps
[23:41] <jsfoxton> sorry but it says its still there
[23:41] <ro> j_clbrt, i couldn't for some reason or another thru the livecd merge my part
[23:41] <Gerinych> is there some way i can make ubuntu turn on numlock when i start it?
[23:41] <johnnny> _Vi_: I found something like: http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-286434.html    Or   http://www.workhabit.com/labs/fixing-broken-arrow-keys-vim-ubuntu    ... but not sure what is the real reason
[23:41] <Neremor> for special security, the form i want to login with uses a key that is submited like a normal form-field
[23:41] <nbeebo> how to install latest qt 4,1?
[23:42] <superfirelord42> j_clbrt, could this help? http://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/TestDisk
[23:42] <_Vi_> johnnny: theres like 10 different VI's, it can get very confusing , and some distros modify it and stuff, so it's hard to tell whats really going on
[23:42] <johnnny> _Vi_: some talk about : :set nocompatible
[23:42] <Neremor> the key is a random compilation of 26 numbers
[23:42] <_Vi_> johnnny: that might work
[23:42] <mib_blrp9y> im extracting a file something.txt.gz so i do gunzip -f /path/where/i/want/it/something.txt /path/of/compressed/file/something.txt.gz and it says something.txt.gz not found but it unzips it into its current dir, how can i get it to do that into the dir i want?
[23:42] <ro> j_clbrt, yes it's called /dev/sda1
[23:42] <johnnny> _Vi_: i just freshly installed Ubuntu 8.04 server
[23:42] <Izinucs> El:  if you absolutely have to it is typically possible with wine.. you should check the winehq site first to see what versions and how well it's supported..
[23:42] <Neremor> how can i get this key and submit it so the system thinks it is a valid form-entry?
[23:42] <fonzarelli> Gerinych: a lot of times that is a setting in your bios, boot up numlock status
[23:43] <Izinucs> !pgp | Neremor
[23:43] <johnnny> _Vi__: i'll figure it out :)
[23:43] <ortsvorsteher> LEX_WELL: are you able to read what i am writing to you?
[23:43] <On0bi> does anyone know where i can play D&D over irc?
[23:43] <johnnny> _Vi_: think the first link will solve the issue.
[23:43] <j_clbrt> ok.. ro how many partitions do you have on your computer right now?
[23:43] <_Vi_> johnnny: yeah sorry i couldnt be of more assistance :)
[23:43] <johnnny> _Vi_: creating a file: .vimrc in my home dir.
[23:43] <johnnny> _Vi_: with set nocompatible   in it.
[23:43] <gbear14275>  I hate vi...
[23:44] <ortsvorsteher> gbear14275: i love vi
[23:44] <El> allright thank you both
[23:44] <_Vi_> johnnny: yeah that file is for custom options
[23:44] <superfirelord42> gbear14275, nano?
[23:44]  * _Vi_ smacks gbear14275 hey now
[23:44] <gbear14275> ortsvorsteher: I'm stuck in it
[23:44] <ro> j_clbrt, when i couldn't merge the unallocated part into my sda2 i moved it back into ext 3 and i changed the ios to boot in harddrive and i went ack to my windows option at boot up and now i get an error message saying something aout format
[23:44] <johnnny> k, well thanks for now :)
[23:44] <johnnny> i might be back
[23:44] <ro> j_clbrt, /dev/sda1
[23:44] <_Vi_> ok johnnny
[23:44] <gbear14275> lol not you _Vi_, but vi the editor...
[23:44] <On0bi> does anyone know where i can play D&D over irc?
[23:44] <hephasteus> I'm trying to find whether my 1.5 TB Seagate FreeAgent external HDD can be found..  can someone help me at least find out if it is seen by the OS?
[23:44] <_Vi_> vi pwnz, once you get used to it
[23:44] <ro> j_clbrt, 4
[23:44] <ortsvorsteher> gbear14275: i have now 10 years experience with vi, take your time ;)
[23:45] <j_clbrt> well make sure that the partition that has windows is in the NTFS format
[23:45] <draeday> hey is there a utility to check the cpu fan and to control it? because my fan in my laptop no blowing the air out
[23:45] <_Vi_> gbear14275: i knew what you meant, i adore vi hence my nick ;)
[23:45] <RusBoy> guys i decided to swith from debian to ubuntu , any place for syntax from debian to ubuntu ?
[23:45] <j_clbrt> u should be able to do that from the live CD
[23:45] <sycho> cwillu: SO pastebinit timed out, but the error its giving stopping on in the logs is no screens found.
[23:45] <gbear14275> ortsvorsteher: yeah I know about that whole keyboard mode type thing better argument... but all I know is I svn commit and get stuck in VI... and I ... get frustrated
[23:45] <j_clbrt> the only problem is that it may erase windows (i am not sure it can format a drive and keep the contents but it may be able to)
[23:45] <Gerinych> fonzarelli: windows remembers what locks i turned on before and turns them on automatically
[23:45] <hephasteus> it doesn't show up in fdisk -a and I'm using a USB 2.0 cable
[23:46] <hephasteus> -l
[23:46] <gbear14275> so... vi lovers... how the heck do i get out of this thing... I did the whole press esc, then Q! but its just beeping mockingly at me
[23:46] <ortsvorsteher> its off topic... gbear14275 but, the first year in vi was not easy for me too ;)
[23:46] <ro> j_clbrt,  /dev/sad1,/dev/sda2./dev/sda5 and /dev/sda6
[23:46] <fonzarelli> Gerinych: here you go:  https://help.ubuntu.com/community/NumLock
[23:46] <gbear14275> ortsvorsteher: I'm sure I'll get it eventually... but for now... not happy
[23:46] <holyguyver> Baughn, I am back from my nap with the report
[23:46] <j_clbrt> ro: ok... which one has windows on it tho
[23:46] <Gerinych> fonzarelli: ill look at it, thanks
[23:46] <gbear14275> ortsvorsteher: its on my todo list (learn vi)
[23:47] <ro> j_clbrt, the first one /dev/sda1
[23:47] <cwillu> sycho, it's the lines above it that are relevant :p
[23:47] <hephasteus> Is there a specific module I need to load for the Seagate external drive ?
[23:47] <holyguyver> Baughn, are you there?
[23:47] <cwillu> sycho, wired or wireless network?
[23:47] <j_clbrt> ro: what format is sda1 in?
[23:47] <ortsvorsteher> gbear14275: just press one time ESC. after that type :set showmode
[23:47] <ia6303v> where does one find b43load in intrepid?
[23:47] <j_clbrt> i cnt stand vi
[23:47] <j_clbrt> all the stupid keys you need to press
[23:47] <ro> j_clbrt, how do i tell that
[23:48] <_Vi_> gbear14275: once you  press ESC you have to type :q! to exit,, or to save/exit :wq
[23:48] <gbear14275> ok i got out... thanks ort for the help
[23:48] <_Vi_> or :qall
[23:49] <gbear14275> now to look up how to change the default text editor
[23:49] <j_clbrt> ro: I'm not sure... but u could tell from the LiveCD partition manager
[23:49] <gbear14275> that or uninstall vi
[23:49] <ortsvorsteher> gbear14275: now in showmode, you are able to see if you are in insert mode or in navigate mode
[23:49] <gbear14275> >:)
[23:49] <cwillu> sycho, ?
[23:49] <zumz> offtopic: telia users experience lags with american hosts ATM?
[23:49] <ro> j_clbrt, i'm not in the livecd right now
[23:49] <_Vi_> gbear14275: for setting default applications Preferences>Prefered applications
[23:49] <holyguyver> Well anyway I then need someone else who can tell me what this means. Baughn gave me a command to use badblock to find out how much dammahed one of my harddrives had & if it was trustable, but I had to sleep well it obtained the results. I will now give you guys the resaults.
[23:50] <ia6303v> does some one understand BCM wireless drivers...done thie fwcutter, etc...now in intrepid do not see the infamous b43load command...where do I find that?
[23:50] <j_clbrt> i know ro, u may need to boot into to find out tho
[23:50] <godtvisken> hmm..i have no discs to burn! is there a way to install ubuntu virtually? i am on win vista. i was thinking of installing vmware and somehow partitioning the disc, then from vmware installing ubuntu on an empty partition. then i'd need a bootloader too.. hm!
[23:50] <johnnny> _Vi_: my backspace doesn't seem to work and my delete button won't delete new lines.  (any clues ? hehe)
[23:50] <j_clbrt> cwillu, how can ro list the format of the drives in his computer
[23:50] <johnnny> _Vi_: in vi and vim
[23:50] <ro> what do you mean exactly by format
[23:50] <j_clbrt> ro the type of filesystem
[23:51] <cwillu> j_clbrt, live cd, gparted
[23:51] <iamelite> So, I install 8.10 x86 onto an HP P-4 ATI based Desktop, i throw in "noapic" to get it to boot, it seems to die as soon as it tried to boot X
[23:51] <ro> j_clbrt, the file system says ext3
[23:51] <cwillu> should pick up the partition type correctly, but it won't when booted under wubi
[23:51] <j_clbrt> well ro that would be the problem
[23:51] <j_clbrt> windows needs to be on NTFS
[23:51] <hephasteus> ok I loaded the ntfs.ko module, will it load after I restart? in order to see my seagate external drive?
[23:51] <j_clbrt> so u need to go back into gparted and change that to NTFS
[23:51] <jsfoxton> hi ppl.. i've removed wine from my system but office is still showing on my apps menu??
[23:51] <ro> j_clbrt, probally ecause i installed linux in windows
[23:51] <joljam> ActionParsnip1:  I have updated xorg.conf . should I restart now
[23:51] <iamelite> And i can tell it it froze because the num-caps lock wouldnt even register
[23:51] <holyguyver> Actgionally I can't because it is still spitting them out
[23:52] <j_clbrt> thats not why ro
[23:52] <leefmc> Question: How do you ssh copy from one computer to another?
[23:52] <ro> j_clbrt, why dan't i boot into windowsa
[23:52] <leefmc> via cmd line, ofcourse
[23:52] <j_clbrt> cuz windows doesnt work with the ext3 format
[23:52]  * johnnny is back with another problem :P
[23:52] <j_clbrt> it needs to be ntfs
[23:52] <ortsvorsteher> leefmc: you need to install ssh server on both boxes
[23:52] <j_clbrt> when u were editing ur partitions u may have accidentally changed it
[23:52] <gbear14275> there a command that finds a file in the fs without using grep?  or is grep what I would use? (wondering cause doesn't grep search inside files as well?, looking for the .bashrc file)
[23:52] <rww> leefmc: using scp. See "man scp", and no, you don't need ssh server on both boxes
[23:53] <rww> leefmc: there's also sftp, which also has a manpage
[23:53] <ro> j_clbrt, so how do i change that and how do i get back to boot into windows
[23:53] <ortsvorsteher> leefmc: to copy a file between two hosts just host1: scp file aim_host:/path/where/file/has/to/be/
[23:53] <ia6303v> quit
[23:53] <j_clbrt> ro: i just told u
[23:53] <TrentonH> Hello
[23:53] <j_clbrt> go back to the Gparted
[23:53] <leefmc> thanks all
[23:53] <ro> j_clbrt,  i forget the error message ut it something pertaining to format
[23:53] <wesolek> hello, is anybody up for a challenge to help me out installing drivers for my touch screen on my hp tx2000 laptop?
[23:53] <leefmc> wesolek: Ooo
[23:53] <ortsvorsteher> !anyone | wesolek
[23:53] <TrentonH> Why doesn't it show the users on the list?
[23:54] <j_clbrt> ro: i need to know the whole error message
[23:54] <j_clbrt> that doesnt help
[23:54] <TrentonH> I only have 2 people in the room.
[23:54] <joljam> after updating xorg.conf should I restart
[23:54] <holyguyver> Here is a small peice of the list from badblock http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/109171/
[23:54] <TrentonH> Can somebody help me?
[23:54] <ro> j_clbrt,  i will have to reoot and how do i change that into ntfs
[23:54] <j_clbrt> TrentonH, what is wrong
[23:54] <eurorail> greeting ubuntu people...  my first time... newbie... are there multiple "rooms" or is this the place?  sorry, but i am new
[23:54] <jsfoxton> can anyone help me get rid of office even though wine has been unistalled?
[23:54] <rww> !irc | eurorail
[23:54] <j_clbrt> well look around on the disk it will make it obvious
[23:54] <j_clbrt> ro
[23:55] <cwillu> jsfoxton, right click the menu, 'edit menus', and remove them
[23:55] <j_clbrt> i dnt really know gparted that well
[23:55] <Kano> hi, how to reboot to grub menu and not just reboot into linux?
[23:55] <j_clbrt> i havent used it in awhule
[23:55] <jsfoxton> cwillu: but what about the actual files???
[23:55] <j_clbrt> kano hit esc
[23:55] <heatmzzr> eurorail: plenty of "rooms" here
[23:55] <_Vi_> johnnny: you might only have tiny-vim installed, you might try to install the full package 'sudo apt-get install vim'  not sure if this will solve the issues or not though
[23:55] <ro> j_clbrt, in gparted i found out i can change the ext3 into ntfs
[23:55] <eurorail> thanks ubotto
[23:55] <j_clbrt> before it starts up
[23:55] <holyguyver> eurorail, there are other rooms for off-topic discussion & kubuntu & xubuntu & other language discussions
[23:55] <j_clbrt> yes ro
[23:55] <wesolek> ortsvorsteher, I have asked my question right there, no need for "anyone" command
[23:55] <cwillu> jsfoxton, in ~/.wine probably
[23:55] <TrentH> j_clbrt: Pidgin only displays 10 people in the room. You're not one of them.
[23:55] <johnnny> _Vi_: for the backspace and delete keys ? :)
[23:56] <j_clbrt> TrentH, not sure i dnt use pidgin for irc
[23:56] <ro> j_clbrt, do that now
[23:56] <cwillu> jsfoxton, uninstalling never removes configuration files, unless you also purge.  And even then, it won't affect stuff in your home directory generally
[23:56] <_Vi_> johnnny: worth a try ?
[23:56] <j_clbrt> TrentH, try xchat
[23:56] <j_clbrt> ro yea
[23:56] <jsfoxton> cwillu: ~/.wine is ~ root?
[23:56] <johnnny> _Vi_: try to do the less changes :)
[23:56] <Kano> there is no grub displayed at all to press esc
[23:56] <j_clbrt> but are u booted from CD
[23:56] <johnnny> _Vi_: but it should be Ok :)
[23:56] <TrentH> Their we go!
[23:56] <cwillu> ~ is /home/<username> (automatically)
[23:56] <j_clbrt> ro: u need to be booted on CD
[23:56] <wesolek> leefmc, is that a big problem? I've tried to follow some directions I found on one the forums, but it lead me nowhere
[23:56] <ro> j_clbrt, it's domne now what
[23:56] <TrentH> Ah, my nickname is changed as well.
[23:56] <ro> j_clbrt, it did it now
[23:56] <TrentH> My nickname does say TrentH correct?
[23:57] <j_clbrt> well ro reboot and see if windows works
[23:57] <wesolek> leefmc, or at least I wasn't able to install it properly
[23:57] <holyguyver> So is no one going to tell me what that pastebin I put up means?
[23:57] <ro> j_clbrt, ok thanks
[23:57] <jsfoxton> cwillu: .wine has never been there unless it is hidden?? how do i find it?
[23:57] <KenBW2> TrentH: yup
[23:57] <j_clbrt> i gotta go bbl
[23:57] <gordonjcp> jsfoxton: the . means it's hidden
[23:57] <TrentH> Holyguyver, what is the link?
[23:57] <ro> j_clbrt, i'll be back later
[23:57] <eurorail> so let me get this right... this is a place that gurus hang out to exchange ideas and help newbies like me?
[23:57] <holyguyver> TrentH,  http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/109171/
[23:57] <gordonjcp> jsfoxton: type "ls .wi<TAB>"
[23:57] <KenBW2> eurorail: yup
[23:58] <redvamp128> jsfoxton:  open up a prompt and type  ( cd .wine then cd_drive_c ) that is the default location of your c: for the wine install
[23:58] <ro> j_clbrt, how do i solve the moving the remaining harddrive space over to my linux side
[23:58] <On0bi> does anyone know where i can play D&D over irc?
[23:58] <TrentH> holyguyver, can you tell me more about what this pastebin may be?
[23:58] <cwillu> jsalisbury, ctrl-h
[23:58] <eurorail> thx ken... i have already run into some snags trying to get ubyntu alternate installed on my win98 era sony vaio with no bootable cd or floppy drive... got stuck after 5 hours on loadlin!
[23:58] <cwillu> jsfoxton, ctrl-h
[23:59] <cwillu> jsfoxton, anything starting with a '.' is a hidden file in unix
[23:59] <KenBW2> eurorail: you need the alternate install cd
[23:59] <eurorail> i got loadlin to work, but the kerel would panic and crash because i didnt have the root= syntax right.... being a newbie to linux
[23:59] <jsfoxton> cwillu: yay no .wine
[23:59] <TrentH> Can somebody tell me how to adjust my screen resolution?


[00:01] <sarnold> Guest5210: heh, that's not great :(
[00:02] <Guest5210> Honestly even setting the device as managed doesn’t set the device as managed :/
[00:03] <Guest5210> And there is no /etc/network/interfaces file which could interfere
[00:04] <sarnold> OH NO :(
[00:05] <sarnold> if guest5210 returns, could someone paste this along? https://askubuntu.com/a/1075112/33812 :)
[00:07] <sarnold> Guest5210: YAY you're back
[00:07] <sarnold> Guest5210: https://askubuntu.com/a/1075112/33812
[00:07] <sarnold> Guest5210: I don't actually understand this answer
[00:07] <sarnold> Guest5210: all I know is that it masks the /usr/lib/NetworkManager/conf.d/10-globally-managed-devices.conf file that includes some gibberish about managing devices
[00:09] <Guest5210> Yeah i found it myself a second ago and it worked. But wth, why is it set as default that nm doesn’t manage _any_ device
[00:09] <sarnold> oh good ;)
[00:09] <sarnold> that might be worth a bug report
[00:11] <Guest5210> Hm, lol now snap doesn’t have completion :/  I guess that’s an issue for another day
[00:13] <sarnold> I wonder if that's one that'll Just Work after yet another reboot
[00:13] <Guest5210> Let’s see ^^
[00:14] <Guest5210> Sarnold yes you are right
[00:14] <sarnold> woot
[00:26] <Guest5210> !eol 20.10
[00:26] <Guest5210> !eol
[01:29] <Guest5210> sarnold did I understand you correctly that you are running lxd?
[01:31] <sarnold> Guest5210: yeah; I mainly use it to have easy access to a bunch of different ubuntu versions, not in any real application hosting sort of way
[01:32] <Guest5210> sarnold that's fine, i use multipass for ubuntu and lxd for every other distro. I was trying to figure out what is going on with my autocompletion.
[01:33] <Guest5210> as I use this https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/RWQYjTqThc/ and when I start a gnome-terminal I get _have command not found and as I said earlier i need to resource my .bashrc
[01:38] <sarnold> Guest5210: _have is defined in /usr/share/bash-completion/bash_completion
[01:39] <Guest5210> sarnold: I also have that default
[01:39] <Guest5210> which doesn't enable lxd autocomplete
[01:40] <sarnold> Guest5210: okay, how about an /etc/bash_completion that sources /usr/share/bash-completion/bash_completion?
[01:42] <Guest5210> here is my whole .bashrc, which only adds multipass and lxd for bash_completion (at the bottom where .bash_aliases gets sourced) https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/gKCC6J2cxp/
[01:44] <Saxle> Is there a benefit to using a newer kernel from https://kernel.ubuntu.com ? I'm on 20.04 LTS HWE and want to try it.
[01:45] <Guest5210> Saxle they are mostly only recommended if you have issues with your kernel
[01:45] <sarnold> Guest5210: move lines 117 through 126 to line 108 and see how it goes
[01:45] <Saxle> Guest5210 Thanks.
[01:46] <leftyfb> Guest5210: /usr/share/bash-completion/completions/lxd.lxc -> /snap/snapd/current/usr/lib/snapd/complete.sh
[01:47] <Guest5210> sarnold: oO it's working now
[01:48] <Guest5210> leftyfb: what does /snap/snapd/current/usr/lib/snapd/complete.sh do? is it autocompletion for all snaps?
[01:49] <leftyfb> Guest5210: I assume so. Either way, I think that is what's required for it to work. Regardless, that's what I have on my 20.04 install by default and completion works for me without me having to write my own
[01:50] <sarnold> Guest5210: hmm I don't have a /snap/snapd/current/usr/lib/snapd/complete.sh ... what's in it?
[01:51] <Guest5210> leftyfb: hm, on my system the link is set, but still didn't work
[01:51] <leftyfb> sarnold: https://termbin.com/vtzh
[01:54] <leftyfb> sarnold: that's on a pretty simple 20.04 server which mainly just hosts containers
[01:54] <sarnold> thanks leftyfb
[01:55] <sarnold> cripes I've read it and I'm still not sure :)
[01:56] <sarnold> I think it scrapes the snap --help ... output for each command to figure out what options are available
[01:58] <leftyfb> I don't think so. I think it ends up translating the snap name(lxd) down to /snap/lxd/current/etc/bash_completion.d/snap.lxd.lxc
[01:58] <leftyfb> which is the actual bash completion file
[02:16] <Guest5210> where can I ~~rant~~ talk about enhancement of phased updates?
[02:17] <leftyfb> Guest5210: #ubuntu-offtopic maybe
[02:18] <Guest5210> leftyfb: i had the idea to give them an idea to improve on that idea, as the way the implemented it right now, can hinder new installs (while there is a phased update)
[02:19] <leftyfb> Guest5210: https://discourse.ubuntu.com/
[02:19] <Guest5210> thanks :)
[02:19] <sarnold> Guest5210: or perhaps even a bug report! :) installing things should work imho
[02:20] <Guest5210> yeah on my other pc, i had issues getting wine installed as mesa-vulkan-drivers had the new version, but mesa-vulkan-drivers:i386 had the old one :/
[02:22] <sarnold> I would have expected all the binaries from one source package to be phased identically
[02:22] <sarnold> I've seen variations on this for years and never figured out that phasing might be involved
[02:23] <Guest5210> sarnold this is what I figured, but seems like they didn't think about i386 packages (i mean it's already a bit of a backburner nowadays)
[02:25] <sarnold> and installing both i386 and amd64 packages at once isn't very common
[02:25] <sarnold> it's mostly if you've got steam games that haven't rebuilt yet..
[02:27] <Guest5210> I don't use steam, so no idea, I only noticed it because I was installing lutris, wine and my printer drivers (which are i386)
[02:31] <sarnold> aha
[02:35] <chown> Hello
[02:35] <chown> I am trying to update my repo manager but it is yelling at me about yarn not having a sighned GPG key
[02:35] <chown> How do I allow un verified repos to be installed?
[02:37] <Guest5210> chown easiest would be to get the gpg key to verify the repo+packages
[02:40] <sarnold> chown: I think replacing 'deb' with 'deb [trusted=yes]' in your sources will do the trick
[02:42] <chown> I tried that and that is giving me more errors
[02:43] <chown> Guest5210: How would I go about doing that?
[02:44] <Guest5210> chown about which version are we talking about?
[02:44] <chown> offf ubuntu?
[02:44] <chown> I am using ubuntu server 20.4
[02:44] <Guest5210> huh? okay wait, I thought you added the outdated official yarn repo
[02:45] <chown> https://docs.joinmastodon.org/admin/install/
[02:45] <chown> I am following this manual
[02:45] <chown> I am actually in the middle of trying to set up a mastodon instance
[02:46] <chown> So I installed whatever yarn file this one is pulling
[02:46] <Guest5210> ahh so it is yarn classic
[02:46] <sarnold> hah, they've got a command to curl | apt-key the key..
[02:46] <Guest5210> yup curl -sS https://dl.yarnpkg.com/debian/pubkey.gpg | sudo apt-key add -
[02:46] <chown> I did that t.t
[02:47] <sarnold> did you get any error messages from it?
[02:47] <chown> nu uh
[02:47] <chown> Hang on
[02:47] <chown> ok wtf
[02:47] <chown> I ran it again and it
[02:47] <chown> it's working now***
[02:47] <chown> -.-
[02:47] <sarnold> heh
[02:47] <chown> Sorry that was weird
[02:47] <sarnold> :)
[02:48] <Guest5210> ^^
[02:48] <chown> I mean, you think they would have me install it and then curl the keys
[02:48] <sarnold> curling the keys is how you know bits weren't flipped in transit
[02:50] <chown> well now I need python-certbot-nginx and it says there's no package for it
[02:51] <Guest5210> chown python3-certbot-nginx
[02:53] <chown> based thanks Guest5210
[02:53] <Guest5210> hm, is there a way to tell ubuntu dock to show on another display? as of right now, it's showing up on my non-primary display
[02:55] <Guest5210> my preferred monitor is already set to primary :/
[02:56] <GSMarquis> Does anyone know how to change window scroll bar widths in Ubuntu?
[02:58] <Guest5210> GSMarquis idk if this helps https://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?t=286908
[03:06] <chown> Can you sudo with a user who doesn't have a password? o.o
[03:06] <chown> Do I need to edit the sudoers file?
[03:07] <soreau> chown: if you have root access, you can use `su - user`
[03:07] <chown> and then the command?
[03:08] <soreau> yes and then `exit` to get back to the root prompt
[03:08] <chown> ok
[03:09] <chown> ok, lol, now I am getting "unrecognized option --no-document"
[03:09] <chown> For gem
[03:09] <chown> gem install bundler --no-document is what it is telling me to install
[03:19] <GSMarquis> Thanks, I will check it out. I just cant seem to land my mouse on the bars.
[04:04] <phablet> bdzhshtšs
[04:18] <chown> w e w
[04:18] <chown> My user avccount is "not in the sudoers file"
[04:18] <chown> reeeee
[04:51] <chown> sfljgndf
[05:07] <Guest99> hi
[05:08] <Guest99> I have my 20gb partition root already full, may I erase swap partition and add to root partitio? I use Ubuntu 20.04
[05:57] <rowz> hi i just installed guest additions on xubuntu 20.4.2 but it didn't work, i tried reinstalling then i found it says system currently not set up to build kernal modules please install gcc make perl packages, how can i fix this?
[06:12] <ruga> ..
[06:19] <ducasse> rowz: try 'sudo apt install build-essential'
[06:19] <ducasse> Guest5210: how much ram do you have?
[07:03] <rowz> thanks
[08:10] <loganlee> guys you know how ubuntu's dock used to have icons get stacked towards the bottom? do you know how to enable that in ubuntu 20.4?
[08:14] <tomreyn> loganlee: i think this was a feature of the unity (launcher) feature (which you can still install). but maybe you'll find a gnome shell extension doing this as well.
[08:16] <tomreyn> searching for "stack" on https://extensions.gnome.org/ doesn't yield results, though
[08:32] <newhoa> Ubuntu package servers are very slow the last day. Is this happening for anyone else?
[08:33] <newhoa> To download package data it is estimating over an hour at 26Kb/s and failing to download many package lists.
[08:34] <jailbreak> newhoa, it's fine here. have you tried restarting your router?
[08:36] <newhoa> I can try that but speed tests put me at 30Mbps and everything else is playing/downloading fine.
[08:38] <newhoa> If I select a mirror in Software & Updates it works fine. It's just the Main server. Yesterday it downloaded the package lists fine but the actual downloads were crazy slow or failed.
[08:38] <sixwheeledbeast> yesterday it did seem to take longer than usual when I tried but seems temporary.
[08:39] <sixwheeledbeast> nothing failed or errored.
[08:39] <tomreyn> newhoa: what's the "main server"? they conveniently have hostnames assigned to them. ;-)
[08:39] <tomreyn> domain names even
[08:40] <newhoa> security.ubuntu.com, us.archive.ubuntu.com sorry, in Software & Updates it just says Main Server
[08:40] <tomreyn> ah, then i'm sorry, too, i wasn't aware it said that.
[08:41] <tomreyn> !mirrors
[08:41] <tomreyn> hmm not exactly what i was looking for
[08:42] <tomreyn> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archivemirrors is a list of mirrors and their update states, click on them to see the update state for a specific ubuntu release
[08:43] <tomreyn> i guess a mirror in eastern or central U.S. would be best for you
[08:44] <newhoa> Thanks. The mirrors are working fine. I just didn't know if others were having a problem or if there was a place to check status of the official servers.
[08:44] <newhoa> Finally got the package list to update but if I try to update (Firefox for example) I get "404 Not Found"
[08:45] <tomreyn> hmm, this hints on a different issue, though. can you run   sudo apt update    and then pos tthe full output to    https://paste.ubuntu.com
[08:49] <tomreyn> newhoa: or, you could run all of this, which would gather some useful info and post it online, and just return a url for you to post here. but don't do it if you don't understand what it does (don't trust strangers on the internet handing out commands to you to run):
[08:50] <tomreyn> sudo /bin/true && cat &>/tmp/aptlog < <(sudo grep -hEv '^([ ]*#.*)?$' /etc/apt/sources.list{,.d/*.list} 2>&1; sudo apt-get -y update 2>&1; apt-cache policy 2>&1; sudo apt-get -syV full-upgrade 2>&1;); nc termbin.com 9999 </tmp/aptlog && rm /tmp/aptlog
[08:53] <newhoa> Will do (after the estimated 4 hours it's giving me lol, I'm sure it'll just abort on some lists here soon)
[08:58] <tomreyn> newhoa: you could meanwhile run this in a separate terminal, just to check how well you can reach one of the security.ubuntu.com servers:    ping -c3 security.ubuntu.com 2>&1 | nc termbin.com 9999
[08:58] <tomreyn> it should not noticibly impact the other transfer
[09:09] <newhoa> tomreyn here are termbins for security.ubuntu and us.archive.ubuntu
[09:09] <newhoa> https://termbin.com/u3iju and https://termbin.com/q37g4
[09:09] <arch_user> hi all.I have a question. How to dispaly [add] of the bottom of terminal color code?
[09:10] <tomreyn> newhoa: hmm those are looking fine
[09:11] <newhoa> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/5sY8TqYP7v/
[09:12] <newhoa> I'm going to restart and see if that does anything. Then I'll try the full set of commands you asked.
[09:13] <tomreyn> newhoa: <IP_ADDRESS> just looks broken right now, i don't think it's you. just use a different mirror server.
[09:18] <tomreyn> newhoa: banjo (this server you were connecting to) had an archive update going. this was probably the cause (though it should not normally be the cause of such issues, it's a mirror server problem). but the server update is done for now, so it may be working well for you again.
[09:20] <newhoa> Cool. Is there a way I can check for stuff like that in the future (so I don't needlessly bother people lol)?
[09:22] <tomreyn> newhoa: if you *can* still access the server(s), you can load http://us.archive.ubuntu.com and see whether there is a file there saying that an upgrade is in progress.
[09:22] <tomreyn> (it should have a recent modification time, too)
[09:25] <newhoa> Ah okay. Sorry for any trouble. Hopefully it'll get back to normal soon. Thanks for the help!
[09:27] <tomreyn> you're welcome, newhoa. your best option is to just wiat some 5 or 10 minutes when it happens next time, or to temporarily switch to a different mirror server.
[12:13] <mint> hi
[12:13] <lotuspsychje> welcome mint
[12:16] <Mekaneck> probably in the wrong channel and on the wrong server mint?
[12:20] <mint> I am using chat application for the first time.. i use linux mint xfce. live cd
[12:20] <cbreak> and you want to switch to ubuntu? Good choice :D
[12:20] <Mekaneck> mint: impossible since Hexchat in Mint points to Spotchat #linuxmint-help
[12:21] <Mekaneck> by default
[12:25] <Mekaneck> mint: so if you seek support with Mint you'll have to switch to Spotchat and the channel i mentioned
[12:26] <Mekaneck> here is only Ubuntu support
[12:26] <kinosa> hi
[12:26] <Mekaneck> hi kinosa
[12:27] <kinosa> how are you?
[12:27] <Mekaneck> need support with Ubuntu kinosa?
[12:27] <Mekaneck> if not join #ubuntu-offtopic for casual talk
[12:28] <kinosa> ok
[13:38] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[13:39] <coz_> BluesKaj, hey guy %)
[13:39] <BluesKaj> hi coz_
[13:39] <coz_> %)
[16:04] <FreeBDSM> hi, what's current linux version in ubuntu 20.04?
[16:04] <quadrat> FreeBDSM hwe or not?
[16:04] <quadrat> 5.4 for normal, hwe 5.8
[16:04] <quadrat> edge 5.11
[16:04] <FreeBDSM> quadrat: what's hwe?
[16:04] <quadrat> hardware enablement
[16:05] <quadrat> desktops use hwe per default
[16:05] <Mekaneck> FreeBDSM: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/LTSEnablementStack
[16:05] <Mekaneck> google is your friend ;)
[16:07] <FreeBDSM> thanks, quadrat and Mekaneck
[16:07] <Mekaneck> yw :)
[16:07] <FreeBDSM> I hoped for >=5.10
[16:08] <quadrat> well if you install the edge kernel you can have >=5.11
[16:08] <quadrat> ah 5.10
[16:09] <FreeBDSM> quadrat: how's that? LTS version of OS but with edge version of kernel?
[16:10] <quadrat> eh, edge  (which is based on 20.10 in this cycle) is just the release which will be the next "normal" hwe stack, which gets released in fall this year.
[16:11] <quadrat> oops i meant 21.04
[16:11] <quadrat> the hwe stack we have right now is 20.10
[16:12] <FreeBDSM> 21.04 is not LTS
[16:13] <quadrat> FreeBDSM the hwe stack is based upon the interim releases, that's why I talk about other nonLTS releases.
[16:13] <quadrat> and they get backported to LTS releases
[16:13] <FreeBDSM> I don't get. So will 5.10 be backported to LTS 20.04?
[16:14] <quadrat> no 5.11 will get backported
[16:14] <quadrat> as 5.11 is being used in 21.04
[16:14] <FreeBDSM> oh, it's probably fine then
[16:14] <lotuspsychje> FreeBDSM: do you have a bug/feature that you need thats not in the current kernel versions?
[16:17] <FreeBDSM> lotuspsychje: yeah, I'm thinking about buying a new device, but it's supported only was added to 5.10. I'm currently on 18.04 w/ 4.15. I'm trying to figure out how to plan the update properly. Given ubuntu doesn't really support major version updates the current dilemma is whether it's worth to wait for 22.04 LTS and switch to that version or to use 20.04 with those backports stuff
[16:17] <FreeBDSM> or even just install the necessary driver as a kernel module for now
[16:18] <quadrat> FreeBDSM wouldn't be using 21.04 also an option? or only LTS releases (if yes i guess you install edge, or wait till 20.04.3)
[16:18] <FreeBDSM> quadrat: definitely no
[16:18] <lotuspsychje> 'its'? wich chipset are we talking about specific?
[16:20] <FreeBDSM> lotuspsychje: https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Linux-5.10-Nintendo-Switch
[16:21] <lotuspsychje> interesting FreeBDSM got a bug ID for that?
[16:24] <webchat36> Hello.  I need a bit of help connecting to the internet with KDE
[16:24] <FreeBDSM> https://www.google.com/search?q=linux+nintendo+switch+inurl%3Agithub.com%2Ftorvalds%2Flinux
[16:24] <webchat36> I installed Ubuntu Server as I need it for a program I need to run.  I then installed KDE as an environment.  It does not see my wired internet connection, so it won't download any packages
[16:25] <webchat36> it will allow me to chat here.
[16:25] <webchat36> I'
[16:25] <oerheks> webchat36, were you in #kubuntu before?
[16:25] <webchat36> earlier yes
[16:25] <oerheks> weird, no updates, and you can irc...
[16:25] <webchat36> No updates but I can irc.
[16:25] <webchat36> it says I have no network.
[16:25] <webchat36> I don't know how to manually configure the network
[16:25] <quadrat> webchat36 what happens if you try to download packages?
[16:25] <webchat36> although I figured out how to add a wired network
[16:26] <webchat36> it says no network can't download
[16:26] <oerheks> one better install Kubuntu solely.
[16:26] <Mekaneck> way too weird
[16:26] <Mekaneck> oerheks: already suggested to install kubuntu and then add a server
[16:26] <webchat36> I can't use Kubuntu.  I need root access to use Drupal.  You can't root access from Kubuntu
[16:26] <oerheks> Mekaneck, i do not believe it either..
[16:26] <webchat36> And I need a server version
[16:26] <webchat36> trust me...it's what it is doing
[16:27] <oerheks> sure you can be root, with sudo
[16:27] <oerheks> good luck!
[16:27] <Mekaneck> use server without gui
[16:27] <webchat36> No, I can't use Sudo
[16:27] <FreeBDSM> drupal with root access
[16:27] <webchat36> I could use without GUI.  But I wanted to be able to cut and paste command line commands.  That requires firefox or a graphical browser.  Can you install that in command line
[16:27] <webchat36> ?
[16:27] <FreeBDSM> loool
[16:27] <Mekaneck> search for "enable root access in kubuntu" webchat36
[16:27] <Gadget[m]> Server without a GUI is preferred. Les code running less resources needed.
[16:27] <FreeBDSM> that's a recipe for a catastrophe to happen
[16:27] <Mekaneck> topics enough to be found
[16:28] <webchat36> why catastrophe waiting to happen?
[16:28] <webchat36> I just want to write my web page in drupal
[16:28] <Gadget[m]> Use SSH client from another computer
[16:28] <FreeBDSM> because of the quality of drupal as a product
[16:28] <webchat36> How would I use SSH from another computer?
[16:28] <Gadget[m]> SCP can move files.
[16:28] <webchat36> I can use apt get
[16:29] <webchat36> I wanted to use synaptic package manager
[16:29] <Mekaneck> webchat36: also guides on the web to be found on how to SSH
[16:29] <webchat36> I don't know what SSH is
[16:29] <Mekaneck> look it up
[16:29] <webchat36> I used linux a lot but it was seven years ago
[16:29] <webchat36> So look up SSH
[16:30] <Mekaneck> sure, not much has changed on how to to basic stuff in those 7 years
[16:30] <Gadget[m]> SSH is very useful for doing what you want.
[16:30] <webchat36> Also if using drupal with root is a problem, why do all the instructions for installing require root
[16:30] <Gadget[m]> Root to install user to run
[16:30] <webchat36> I couldn't install drupal without root
[16:30] <webchat36> Ah, yes, I just needed an account of root that I could access
[16:31] <webchat36> to configure the server
[16:31] <webchat36> I've also got no wifi card in this computer so it needs to be a hotwire or ethernet connection
[16:31] <oerheks> 1st account created has sudo (=root) rights
[16:32] <webchat36> yes.  Sudo wouldn't work for some of the programs
[16:32] <webchat36> Basically I have the system I think will work.  If I can connect it to the internet
[16:32] <oerheks> one should be carefull with programs running as root.
[16:32] <webchat36> I'm just using this computer to write a web page.  Nothing private on it
[16:32] <oerheks> make sure you use an UBUNTU howto for drupal
[16:33] <webchat36> Yes, I found an ubuntu how to.  It doesn't explain how to connect your network card when the computer won't let you use it
[16:33] <Gadget[m]> That’s not a reason to run a service as root, that is very dangerous
[16:33] <webchat36> I just needed to be able to set a root password.  I did that, now I'm logged on as a user
[16:34] <Gadget[m]> Can you open terminal an do
[16:34] <Gadget[m]> ‘’’
[16:34] <Gadget[m]> ip addr
[16:34] <Gadget[m]> ‘’’
[16:34] <webchat36> I can open a terminal
[16:34] <Gadget[m]> * Can you open terminal an do
[16:34] <Gadget[m]> ip addr
[16:35] <oerheks> if the server does not allow networking, irc should not be possible too.
[16:35] <webchat36> well it is
[16:35] <Gadget[m]> True
[16:35] <Mekaneck> exactly
[16:35] <webchat36> 1: lo: <LOOPBACK,UP,LOWER_UP> mtu 65536 qdisc noqueue state UNKNOWN group default qlen 1000
[16:35] <webchat36>     link/loopback 00:00:00:00:00:00 brd 00:00:00:00:00:00
[16:35] <webchat36>     inet <IP_ADDRESS>/8 scope host lo
[16:35] <webchat36>        valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever
[16:35] <webchat36>     inet6 ::1/128 scope host
[16:35] <webchat36>        valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever
[16:35] <webchat36> 2: eno1: <BROADCAST,MULTICAST,UP,LOWER_UP> mtu 1500 qdisc fq_codel state UP group default qlen 1000
[16:35] <webchat36>     link/ether 90:b1:1c:7d:2e:2e brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff
[16:35] <webchat36>     inet <IP_ADDRESS>/24 brd <IP_ADDRESS> scope global dynamic eno1
[16:35] <webchat36>        valid_lft 171845sec preferred_lft 171845sec
[16:35] <webchat36>     inet6 2607:fea8:bcdd:3d00::f6f6/128 scope global dynamic noprefixroute
[16:35] <webchat36>        valid_lft 603842sec preferred_lft 603842sec
[16:35] <webchat36>     inet6 2607:fea8:bcdd:3d00:92b1:1cff:fe7d:2e2e/64 scope global dynamic mngtmpaddr noprefixroute
[16:35] <webchat36>        valid_lft 300sec preferred_lft 300sec
[16:35] <webchat36>     inet6 fe80::92b1:1cff:fe7d:2e2e/64 scope link
[16:35] <webchat36>        valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever
[16:35] <coconut> !paste
[16:35] <Mekaneck> sigh
[16:36] <webchat36> Oh, sorry
[16:36] <Mekaneck> they never learn LOL
[16:36] <webchat36> It's been 7 years.  I'll use it next time
[16:36] <Mekaneck> use it now
[16:37] <webchat36> Ok. I used it
[16:37] <webchat36> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/ZqbPffHMGT/
[16:38] <webchat36> If someone could just help me get my internet "connected" I think I could take it from there
[16:38] <webchat36> Same thing happened when I tried to install Kubuntu on top of the Ubuntu server
[16:38] <Mekaneck> your internet is working since you're chatting
[16:38] <webchat36> Yes, but it says it isn't working and won't let the package manager work
[16:39] <oerheks> https://ubuntu.com/server/docs/network-configuration
[16:40] <Mekaneck> why don't you just do as i said, install kubuntu first THEN add a server for your needs
[16:40] <webchat36> I tried installing Kubuntu and then following Drupal instructions.  It didn't work
[16:40] <webchat36> It also wouldn't let me install synaptic.  I like synaptic.
[16:40] <webchat36> something about weyland being active
[16:41] <Mekaneck> wayland... switch to xorg instead then
[16:41] <webchat36> If I install Kubuntu and then I get stuck when I can't access the root command would you help then or tell me not to use the root command?
[16:42] <webchat36> All the instructions for Drupal come with installing a system the way I've installed it, except that I wanted a graphic interface.  So I installed one.  But it won't see the internet
[16:42] <webchat36> I looked at the connection suggestions posted.  I have no idea what all of that is about.
[16:42] <webchat36> I usually use DHCP when I install linux
[16:43] <Mekaneck> if i had a solution i'd provide it
[16:43] <alkisg> webchat36: the server version installs netplan, while you want to use the network-manager GUI. It's indeed simpler to start with kubuntu and then install drupal, than to remove all the server bits that you don't like
[16:43] <webchat36> So I
[16:44] <webchat36> I'll try Kubuntu and come back here if it tells me I can't install Drupal again.
[16:44] <alkisg> Right
[16:44] <webchat36> But how do I get synaptic on Drupal.  It wouldn't let me add that. and I want synaptic.
[16:44] <alkisg> Note the message and paste it here when it happens
[16:44] <webchat36> Kept on going about Wayland
[16:44] <alkisg> sudo apt install synaptic
[16:44] <webchat36> I was a mepis user.
[16:44] <alkisg> synaptic isn't related to drupal though
[16:44] <Mekaneck> you can't get synaptic on Drupal
[16:44] <webchat36> No, it's related to how I use linux
[16:44] <alkisg> It's a package manager, like discover
[16:45] <webchat36> So I can download other stuff I like, to get a working system
[16:45] <alkisg> Sure
[16:45] <webchat36> OK.  I'll try that.  Thank you.
[16:45] <alkisg> 👍
[16:46] <webchat36> Thank you.  Hopefully this will solve the problem.
[16:48] <webchat36> Problem: there appears to be no program for writing an ISO. Back to the Windows computer
[16:49] <LadyCailin> dd
[16:49] <alkisg> webchat54: writing an iso to cd or stick?
[16:49] <alkisg> ...ok he left :)
[17:14] <SupremeKai> Hey guys, I have ubuntu 20.04 and when I do an ssh login with root I would like to have the default folder as / instead of /root/ - how can I do it? I already changed .bashrc with cd / but it doesn't work
[17:20] <oerheks> SupremeKai, which .bashrc ? the root one i hope ...
[17:20] <oerheks> = /root/.bashrc
[17:30] <leftyfb> SupremeKai: why on earth do you think you need to login as root?
[17:40] <SupremeKai> leftyfb, why not?
[17:40] <Gadget[m]> Eclairs it’s bad practice
[17:40] <Gadget[m]> * Because it’s bad practice
[17:41] <SupremeKai> I'm an anarchist
[17:41] <SupremeKai> lulz
[17:41] <leftyfb> SupremeKai: is this machine accessible via the internet?
[17:43] <SupremeKai> yup
[17:43] <SupremeKai> it's a vps
[17:44] <Gadget[m]> Logging in as root remotely directly is really bad.
[17:45] <oerheks> vps as root... interesting
[17:46] <SupremeKai> oerheks, nothing new, has been around for more than a decade :P
[17:46] <SupremeKai> Now really guys, leftyfb , Gadget[m] , oerheks - i know about the "good practices" n' stuff.... but who really follows them?
[17:46] <Gadget[m]> Do you at least force ssh keys?
[17:47] <cbreak> logging in as root isn't significantly different from logging in as non-root and then privilege escalating
[17:47] <cbreak> you end up as root either way
[17:47] <SupremeKai> Gadget[m], not really, I do not have the sys of a bank at this vps
[17:47] <SupremeKai> it's just a vps
[17:47] <leftyfb> lol
[17:47] <cbreak> but logging in via passwords? Bad practice, no matter the account name.
[17:47] <leftyfb> it's compromised and they don't even know it
[17:47] <leftyfb> some "anarchist"
[17:47] <SupremeKai> Gadget[m], do u know how to protect yourself as far as this SSH login is concerned? change the default ssh port from 22 to 84724
[17:48] <cbreak> password authentication should be disabled.
[17:48] <SupremeKai> no more bruteforce
[17:48] <leftyfb> lol
[17:48] <SupremeKai> no more fingerprinting at shodan.io and censys
[17:48] <leftyfb> security through obscurity
[17:48] <cbreak> changing ports is quite pointless, sooner or later the alternate port will be found
[17:48] <SupremeKai> change the default ssh port and that's it
[17:48] <SupremeKai> cbreak, and when it does, I change it to 69696969
[17:48] <cbreak> no, you won't
[17:48] <SupremeKai> *6969
[17:48] <cbreak> ports only go up to 65535
[17:49] <SupremeKai> ^
[17:49] <SupremeKai> i was *excited*
[17:49] <alkisg> "changing ports is quite pointless, sooner or later the alternate port will be found" > that's not true, some bots have only a few hardcoded ports, so you avoid these
[17:49] <SupremeKai> no pun intended (i guess=
[17:49] <Gadget[m]> SupremeKai:  my VPSs don’t have SSH exposed out side of the VPN I Run
[17:49] <SupremeKai> alkisg, i go with you
[17:49] <SupremeKai> those bots are dumb as fck
[17:50] <SupremeKai> i got some honeypots, these chinese guys are really gettin into the market
[17:50] <SupremeKai> to mine monero
[17:50] <SupremeKai> Gadget[m], how come?
[17:50] <oerheks> lets get back to ubuntu support, please
[17:51] <SupremeKai> ok, boss
[17:51] <SupremeKai> 8-)
[17:51] <SupremeKai> so, how can I change the default folder when I ssh in the server?
[17:52] <cbreak> sure. Change the home directory
[17:52] <SupremeKai> usermod?
[17:53] <SupremeKai> usermod -d / root?
[17:53] <SupremeKai> I may also have an option using .ssh config or so, or even .profile?
[17:55] <cbreak> if you disable passwords, which you totally should, maybe you can force something via a forced command via .authorized_keys
[18:08] <alkisg> Setting a different home isn't really a good idea ,that would mean that your ssh keys would be in /.ssh
[18:10] <SupremeKai> yup, I also think that alkisg
[18:37] <alkisg> SupremeKai: putting `cd /` at the end of ~/.bashrc works for me
[18:37] <alkisg> (for interactive sessions, of course)
[18:42] <Gadget[m]> 🤔 I am going to have to try this on a host. Would make it convenient.
[18:43] <webchat83> make --no-print-directory -C /root/svmp -f build/core/config.mk dumpvar-TARGET_DEVICE
[18:43] <webchat83> build/envsetup.sh: line 43: 30251 Segmentation fault      (core dumped) CALLED_FROM_SETUP=true BUILD_SYSTEM=build/core make --no-print-directory -C "$T" -f build/core/config.mk dumpvar-$1
[18:44] <webchat83> can help me to fix segmentation fault caused by make?
[18:45] <SupremeKai> alkisg, do I need to restart ssh? or reboot?
[18:45] <SupremeKai> or does the system updates the .bashrc?
[18:45] <SupremeKai> (something along those lines)
[18:45] <oerheks> restart ssh.service indeed
[18:50] <SupremeKai> oerheks, but it is a vps, that way I will get disconnected
[18:50] <oerheks> well, there is just one way to test if it works :-D
[18:50] <SupremeKai> fck it, i'm being too perfectionist lulz
[18:50] <oerheks> go anarchist !
[18:51] <SupremeKai> i'm the anarchy, thus fck .bashrc and the cd / :D
[18:51] <oerheks> hahaha have fun!
[18:51] <SupremeKai> I can edit the sftp address at the top bar anyway lulz
[18:51] <SupremeKai> this was st00pid, but thnks for the confirmation great sir alkisg
[18:57] <leftyfb> I hope I can be a antichris when I grow up. Then I can r00t all the puterz n B da l33tz with awl the lulz
[19:16] <SupremeKai> leftyfb, lulz get 'em like Phineas Fisher did
[21:25] <edlou> Did they fix ubuntu yet?
[21:25] <mybalzitch> fix what
[21:25] <cbreak> edlou: many years ago
[21:27] <pasiz> is ubuntu broken
[21:37] <geirha> bug #1 is still not fixed
[21:39] <cbreak> its fixed now
[21:39] <cbreak> android has the majority market share nowadays
[21:43] <geirha> not for desktops and laptops though
[21:49] <leftyfb> Chrome OS is at 17% market share. That's linux
[22:25] <Guest6210> is there a way to get the "widget" in the notification center back?
[22:40] <toddc> Guest6210: yes what os version and distro will help to find a answer
[23:00] <pepperoni> anyone know how to reset Settings->Displays. Each time I plug my second monitor in, the laptop display goes blank as well as the 2nd monitor
[23:07] <zEneeergy> Hi
[23:12] <pasiz> Hi
[23:49] <Guest6210> toddc sorry for the late response, i am on ubuntu 20.04


[03:42] <kwadroke> I miss anything?
[03:49] <kwadroke> I'm guessing not
[03:50] <module000> you miseed it all
[03:50] <module000> there was a furious 10 minutes of chat; life, the universe, and everything - was deduced
[03:52] <kwadroke> figured as much :)
[03:59] <module000> slow night though ;]
[04:00] <module000> kwadroke: did you take rhce on rhel6 yet?
[04:07] <module000> was going over prep guide for it and wondering how it stacked up to the rhel5 test, work is bugging me to renew early
[04:10] <kwadroke> no I haven't
[04:10] <kwadroke> work hasn't offered to pay for it yet
[04:24] <module000> i think my work is only offering because the end of the year budget doesn't have enough junk,b ut i'll take what i can get i suppose
[04:37] <kwadroke> I'm hoping work will do something soon so I can get mine


[14:58] <sinzui> To the tune of _Doe a deer_:
[14:58] <sinzui> Dough, the thing that buys my beer
[14:58] <sinzui> Ray, the guy that pours my beer
[14:58] <sinzui> Me, the guy that drink my beer
[14:59] <barry> Fa, the sound i make when i drink too much beer
[15:00] <sinzui> So, I'll have another beer
[15:00] <sinzui> Tea? No thanks I'll have a beer
[15:00] <barry> #startmeeting
[15:00] <intellectronica> me
[15:01] <barry> mootbot's pushing up daisies so we're kicking this old school
[15:01] <barry> who's here today?
[15:01] <statik> me
[15:01] <gmb> me
[15:01] <bac> me
[15:01] <sinzui> me
[15:01] <schwuk> me
[15:01] <flacoste> me
[15:01] <BjornT> me
[15:01] <allenap> me
[15:02] <barry> salgado: ping
[15:02] <barry> bigjools: ping
[15:03] <barry> == Agenda ==
[15:03] <barry>  * Roll call
[15:03] <barry>  * Next meeting
[15:03] <barry>  * Action items
[15:03] <barry>  * Queue status
[15:03] <barry>  * Mentoring update
[15:03] <barry>  * Review process
[15:03] <barry>    * How to manage workload of reviewing (intellectronica, sinzui? gmb?)
[15:03] <barry>    * comparing strings with `is` (stevea)
[15:03] <barry>    * overly broad `KeyError`s (stevea)
[15:03] <barry>    * adding lpreview to sourcecode?
[15:03] <barry>    * People should be updating sampledata when they add columns to tables (gmb). All too often I find myself running make newsampledata only to discover a bunch of changes that are nothing to do with me and which merely do things like setting new fields to NULL. This inflates the linecount of a diff and, worse, makes sampledata harder to debug. People should be running make newsampledata on their DB patch branches, or at least on the c
[15:03] <barry> ode branches that descend from the DB patches.
[15:03] <barry>      * Perhaps add a check to the lint report? -- GavinPanella
[15:03] <barry>  * Next meeting
[15:03] <barry> today += weeks(1) ?
[15:04] <barry> anybody know you'll be missing?
[15:04] <statik> wouldn't miss it for anything
[15:04] <barry> great!
[15:04] <barry>  * Action items
[15:04] <barry>  * barry drive to decision about multiline sequences
[15:05] <barry> i suck, but i will do this today or tomorrow
[15:05] <barry>  * gmb to add lpreview to sourcecode and hack rf-setup to link it in
[15:05] <gmb> Haven't touched this since last week what with roll-out coming up
[15:06] <gmb> But mthaddon was having trouble branching it for sourcecode.
[15:06] <gmb> I'll tackle this once rollout is complete.
[15:06] <barry> gmb: sounds great, thanks
[15:06] <barry>  * bigjools to email list about cleaning up after branches land
[15:06] <salgado> me
[15:06] <barry> bigjools is mia, but i /think/ this was done, wasn't it?
[15:06] <salgado> sorry for being late
[15:06] <barry> salgado: no worries
[15:07] <sinzui> barry: It was done
[15:07] <barry> sinzui: ok, thanks
[15:07] <barry>  * gmb to prod mwh again about the 800-line limit patch
[15:07] <gmb> FAIL.
[15:07] <gmb> Will do it today.
[15:07] <barry> we'll just continue this one
[15:08] <barry>  * intellectronica to add js style guide link to TipsForReviewers
[15:08] <intellectronica> i'm pretty sure i did this last week, let me check
[15:08] <intellectronica> i did
[15:09] <barry> intellectronica: thanks!
[15:09] <barry>  * sinzui to update js style guide page with helpful resources
[15:09] <sinzui> Not Done
[15:09] <barry> no worries, we'll just continue this one
[15:09] <barry>  * Queue status
[15:10]  * barry can't get to the PR wiki
[15:11] <intellectronica> my sincere apologies for not doing any PR reviews (and rejecting a few on irc). i must finish some stuff before the release
[15:11] <barry> ah there it is
[15:11] <barry> intellectronica: it happens
[15:11] <bac> leonard's is the only one in the general queue.  i didn't have time to get to it yesterday
[15:11] <bac> and he just added it to the GQ
[15:12] <barry> maybe we should just assign leonard's branch to someone?
[15:12] <barry> anybody have time to review it?
[15:13] <gmb> barry: I will after today.
[15:13] <barry> gmb: great, thanks
[15:14] <barry> gmb: can i put it in your queue?
[15:14] <gmb> sure
[15:14] <barry> cool
[15:14] <barry> anything else on the queue?
[15:14] <barry>  * Mentoring update
[15:14] <barry> bac: wanna do the honors?
[15:15] <bac> yes
[15:15] <bac> Today we're graduating Gavin.  Well done and hoorah.
[15:15]  * gmb applauds
[15:15]  * allenap does \o/
[15:15] <sinzui> \o/
[15:15] <intellectronica> go allenap!
[15:15] <flacoste> congratulations allenap!
[15:15] <allenap> Thanks bac :)
[15:15] <schwuk> \o/
[15:16] <bac> it was my pleasure
[15:16] <barry> allenap: congrats!
[15:16] <allenap> Thanks everyone.
[15:17] <barry> now that we have an open slot and EdwinGrubbs has been nominated for recruitment,  we need a mentor for him though
[15:17] <barry> salgado: do you think you can mentor him?
[15:18] <salgado> barry, I was thinking about that
[15:18] <barry> salgado: you don't have to answer right now.  just let me know
[15:18] <barry> salgado: if you can't that's cool, we'll find another mentor for him
[15:18] <salgado> if I mentor him, what happens with my on-call term?
[15:18] <statik> while mentoring is important, I think we should also feel comfortable taking a month off from mentoring, to avoid burnout
[15:19] <salgado> can EdwinGrubbs take it over and I only mentor him during that day?
[15:19] <barry> salgado: EdwinGrubbs would be oncall with you and he would do most if not all of the reviews.  you would mentor his reviews, but hopefully not do too many of your own
[15:19] <barry> statik: do you think we should do that team-wide, or just for a particular mentor?
[15:19] <sinzui> salgado: That is essentially what I have done working with schwuk
[15:20] <statik> barry: I just wanted to mention it, we all sometimes need to hear that it is ok to say no :)
[15:20] <salgado> okay, I can do it, then
[15:20] <barry> statik: right you are
[15:20] <barry> just like rejecting branches, it is okay to say no!
[15:20] <barry> salgado: awesome, thanks
[15:20] <intellectronica> no
[15:21] <barry> intellectronica: not you though
[15:21] <barry> :)
[15:21] <salgado> EdwinGrubbs, you start tomorrow. ;)
[15:21] <barry> :)
[15:21] <barry> anything else on mentoring?
[15:21] <barry> moving on...
[15:22] <barry>  * Review process
[15:22] <barry>    * How to manage workload of reviewing (intellectronica, sinzui? gmb?)
[15:22] <barry> i apologize for not remembering who wanted to talk about this
[15:22] <barry> the floor is open (just let me know when you're done)
[15:22] <intellectronica> i think it isn't really about work load
[15:22] <intellectronica> more about work scheduling
[15:22] <intellectronica> the work load is not something we can influence, anyway
[15:23] <sinzui> I have concluded that schwuk reads 1.5 faster than I do, so he can easily over whelm me. I'm not taking reviews while he is reviewing.
[15:23] <intellectronica> the problem i identified, is that having a whole day dedicated to reviewing in the middle of the week is often too distracting for me
[15:24] <bigjools> me - late, sorry :(
[15:24] <intellectronica> it means that i have to drop whatever i was doing on the days before that, and can't respond to anything other than reviews
[15:24] <intellectronica> i was wondering if anybody has any thoughts about this, or ideas for managing it better
[15:24] <flacoste> how others who are on-call middle-of-week feels about that?
[15:25] <barry> intellectronica: would it make sense to rotate ocr days every now and then?  i find mondays are nicely segmented, but when it rains, they can be triply depressing :)
[15:25] <intellectronica> :)
[15:25] <intellectronica> yes, i can imagine mondays and firdays are a bit better
[15:25] <schwuk> Friday works well for being on call, but I can see what intellectronica is talking about.
[15:25] <bac> my problem is my on-call day spills over and eats most of the next morning, which sinzui has discussed before.
[15:26] <salgado> I prefer to have one day in which I concentrate on reviews than to do reviews for a couple hours every day
[15:26] <bac> tuesday has not been a problem
[15:26] <intellectronica> salgado: right, so it's a matter of personal preference. not really something we can generalise
[15:26] <barry> my biggest fear is that we'll burn out on doing reviews.  maybe we need a reviewer's vacation?
[15:27] <sinzui> bac: I would stop early if I felt I had too many needs-reply
[15:27] <bac> sinzui: yes.  it gets more difficult when you're working with a mentee.  i just need to manage the time better.
[15:28] <intellectronica> barry: that's a nice option, but with the current work load, it risks only increasing the work for other reviewers
[15:28] <sinzui> intellectronica: Europe is now filled with on-call reviewers, so it is possible for one to take a week off
[15:28] <bigjools> maybe we can fast-track extra reviewers?
[15:28] <statik> do we have enough reviewers now for people to be on call every two weeks instead of every week?
[15:28] <barry> i'll note that if someone is really swamped, we've done one-time skips of ocr or switch days
[15:29] <intellectronica> sinzui: well, i'm pretty much doing this today
[15:29] <gmb> I did that last week.
[15:29] <bac> statik: i don't think that is feasible yet
[15:29] <sinzui> allenap: You will be sharing a slot I think
[15:29] <allenap> sinzui: Fine with me.
[15:29]  * sinzui is looking at https://launchpad.canonical.com/OnCallReviewers
[15:29] <bac> allenap: what slot are you taking?
[15:29] <statik> bac: you're right, because of timezones
[15:30]  * intellectronica notices that he's got the only slot that doesn't have anyone before or after it
[15:30] <sinzui> intellectronica: right!
[15:30] <intellectronica> it could be that this contributes to my workload, and that other shifts are not as problematic
[15:30] <allenap> bac: I guess I could do Thursday with intellectronica.
[15:30] <barry> intellectronica: maybe allenap can share or overlap with you?
[15:31] <intellectronica> allenap: what do you say? i'd like that
[15:31] <allenap> intellectronica: Me too :) Done deal.
[15:31] <bac> allenap: or even wednesday with intellectronica
[15:31] <allenap> bac: Oh yeah, doh :)
[15:31] <sinzui> intellectronica: rockstar_: and abentley would have to emigrate to fill those AsiaPac slots
[15:31] <barry> allenap: great, please update OnCallReviewers
[15:31] <allenap> barry: Done.
[15:32] <salgado> maybe we should keep track of how many reviews are done in each term
[15:32] <barry> allenap: you're not keeping your tuesday slot though, right?
[15:32] <allenap> barry: No, I just deleted that. I'm not doing well today.
[15:32] <salgado> that could help balancing the workload
[15:33] <barry> allenap: thanks
[15:33] <barry> salgado: that came up in asiapac.  i know i keep track of my review time (using gtimelog) but we're not gathering those statistics any more
[15:34] <salgado> right, that's why I suggested number of reviews, which is way easier to track
[15:34] <salgado> maybe just filling a googledocs spreadsheet would do for now
[15:35] <barry> let's do this: if you have a suggestion for improving the review process, email me or the list.  i'll try to put together a couple of concrete proposals and we can try them out for a cycle or two and see what we like
[15:35] <salgado> I mean, it's better than nothing and we don't have to go through launchpad-reviews counting email messages
[15:36] <barry> we've got two more issues, hopefully quick ones
[15:36] <barry>  * comparing strings with `is` (stevea)
[15:36] <barry>    * overly broad `KeyError`s (stevea)
[15:37] <barry> these were things steve saw in a branch he was rc'ing and he wanted me to just mention them here so you all are aware of them
[15:37] <barry> first, nobody should ever compare strings with 'is' or 'is not'
[15:37] <barry> i think the code example was: if foo is 'bar':
[15:37] <barry> always use == and != to compare strings
[15:38] <barry> any questions about that one?
[15:38] <barry> cool
[15:39] <barry> second one is really about putting too much code in the try clause of a try/except
[15:39] <barry> there was a case where inside the try, it wasn't clear which line of code the KeyError was trying to catch, so it would be possible to mask bugs
[15:40] <barry> so watch out for too much stuff inside the try and encourage coders to use an else clause or to put the success code outside the try/except (as appropriate)
[15:40] <barry> does that make sense/
[15:40] <barry> er, sense?
[15:40]  * sinzui mutters Py 2.5
[15:40] <flacoste> how 2.5 affects this?
[15:41] <sinzui> No, not specifically. I recall see nested trys because of else and finally
[15:41] <intellectronica> and it will be great to have conditional expressions
[15:42] <barry> yes, you can get rid of most of your nested try/finally try/excepts
[15:42] <barry> intellectronica: and with statements!
[15:42] <rockstar_> sinzui, I wouldn't mind.  I've been instructed by the other half to think real estate in NZ next week.
[15:42] <barry> anyway.  that's all i have today.  we've got 3 more minutes, so i'll open the floor
[15:42] <gmb> barry: sampledata
[15:42] <barry> gmb: dang, right
[15:42] <barry> gmb: take it
[15:43] <gmb> It's on the agenda, but it's pretty self explanatory.
[15:43] <sinzui> rockstar_: really? I thought the antipodeans only accepted full reviewers.
[15:43] <gmb> If you see a branch that hangs off a DB patch can you check that the developer has updated sampledata appropriately?
[15:43]  * barry was looking at the wrong tab
[15:43] <gmb> Many of these will be fixed in the DB review anyway.
[15:43]  * sinzui notes that they traded mpt for mwhudson
[15:43] <gmb> BUt if a new field can be NULL and defaults there to then developers don't always make newsampledata
[15:44] <gmb> Which makes it hard work for the poor schmuck that does.
[15:44] <gmb> (And his reviewer, not incidentally).
[15:44] <intellectronica> right, so that needs to be part of the review 'checklist', i guess
[15:44] <gmb> Yes.
[15:44] <gmb> barry: I'll update that.
[15:45] <flacoste> it could even be automated
[15:45] <barry> gmb: thanks
[15:45] <flacoste> make newsampledata and no changes should appear
[15:45] <flacoste> with the previous one
[15:45] <gmb> flacoste: I'm not sure I understand you.
[15:45] <salgado> yeah, that'd do a nice test
[15:45] <barry> flacoste: as part of make lint?
[15:45] <flacoste> yes
[15:45] <flacoste> or another test by review-submit
[15:46] <gmb> It'd be nice to make it part of make lint.
[15:46] <sinzui> flacoste: That's a clever idea
[15:46] <barry> +1
[15:46] <barry> flacoste: wanna take a crack at it?
[15:46] <BjornT> i don't think we should enforce creating new sample data when submitting the branch for review
[15:46]  * flacoste looks at sinzui - another good reason to replace jamesh lint
[15:47] <BjornT> if it's not needed, it will produce a much larger diff, and the branch will be prone for conflicts
[15:47] <gmb> Why do we need to replace jamesh?
[15:47] <gmb> Oh, wait.
[15:47] <gmb> screen was being silly.
[15:47] <BjornT> much better to generate the sample data just before submitting the branch to pqm
[15:47] <gmb> Carry on.
[15:47] <flacoste> BjornT: problem is that we delay the price
[15:47] <flacoste> BjornT: that's also good
[15:47] <flacoste> i thought you were suggesting not updating sampledata at all
[15:47] <flacoste> unless absolutely needed
[15:48] <salgado> if that's what we want we can make the test suggested by flacoste part of our test suite
[15:48] <rockstar_> sinzui, I don't really get that joke...  :(
[15:49] <barry> okay, sorry, we're 3 minutes over now.  let's think about the sampledata test and i'll put it on the list for next week
[15:49] <barry> #endmeeting
[15:49] <barry> thanks everyone!
[15:49] <statik> thanks everybuddy
[15:49] <flacoste> thanks barry
[15:49] <intellectronica> thanks barry
[15:49] <barry> (everyone except mootbot)
[15:49] <sinzui> rockstar_: the only person who was ANZ not a review was mpt, He moved to UK. mwhudson who became a reviewer moved to NZ
[15:50] <rockstar_> Ah, I see.
[15:50] <sinzui> rockstar_: The antipodeans seem to prefer, for lack of a better word, 'rockstars'
[15:50]  * rockstar_ goes to learn the reviewer secret handshakes...  :)
[15:50] <Hobbsee> rockstar_: don't forget to sacrifice the goat first.
[15:50] <rockstar_> sinzui, perfect!  The only problem now is that I've only been around for a week and a half now.
[15:50] <sinzui> I think ibex is the animal of choice
[15:51] <Hobbsee> sinzui: oh, i thought we were keeping them for ubuntu sacrifices.
[15:52] <sinzui> Hobbsee: We like Ubunut
[15:52] <sinzui> Hobbsee: We like Ubuntu
[15:52] <rockstar_> sinzui, our move would be solely based upon U.S. politics.  :)
[15:52] <Hobbsee> sinzui: so you should sacrifice things to make it work properly, no?
[15:52] <Hobbsee> apparently we're out of zebras.
[15:53] <rockstar_> Shit!  Who do we talk to in order to get more?
[15:54] <sinzui> rockstar_: I've been thinking on Montreal for similar reasons
[15:54] <rockstar_> sinzui, you're in AsiaPac?
[15:56] <sinzui> rockstar_: No. I loved living in Australia as a child. I work on the Foundations team so I should be stay on the East coast of North America, Caribbean, or South American
[15:57] <rockstar_> Oh crap, I would totall be down in the Carribean...
[15:58] <rockstar_> I lived there for a while.  I'd think about going back, but that'd be a step in the wrong direction...
[15:58] <sinzui> rockstar_: Consider Hawaii. Fiji has some bad politics
[15:58] <rockstar_> Hawaii is still the U.S.
[15:58] <sinzui> Half is owned by Nippon
[15:59] <rockstar_> Hawaii?
[15:59] <sinzui> yeah? 50% of land and business is owned by Japanese investors I believe
[16:00] <rockstar_> So it's not U.S. soil>
[16:00]  * rockstar_ grumbles and the things the U.S. "fails to mention" in public school...
[16:01] <sinzui> rockstar_: I learned to study a nation's history in another nation.
[16:02] <rockstar_> sinzui, good idea.  Living in Texas 'til I was 11, I only ever learned Texas history.  No U.S. history even.
[16:02] <sinzui> rockstar_: France has little to say about Napoleon. The US does not mentioned Native Americans and genocide very often
[16:02] <sinzui> rockstar_: Texas is it's own state of mind.
[16:03] <rockstar_> Yea, we killed a lot of Mexicans...
[16:03] <sinzui> And stole a lot of land
[16:03]  * rockstar_ redacts the "we" and adds "they"
[16:06] <sinzui> rockstar_: Australia just officially apologised for taking generations of children from their families. NZ is in rights disputes with the Maori. There is a lot of crime to redact 'we' with 'they'
[16:08] <rockstar_> sinzui, well, problems are problems.  It's more about the "looking forward" solution.  At least the Australians apologized...
[16:09] <sinzui> rockstar_: I agree.