[07:51] <mup> PR snapd#12543 opened: many: reinstate vendored apparmor <Created by alexmurray> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/12543>
[09:22] <mup> PR snapd#12537 closed: boot: do not include `base=` in modeenv for classic+modes installs <Squash-merge> <Run nested> <cherry-picked> <Created by mvo5> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/12537>
[09:27] <mup> PR snapd#12544 opened: cmd/snap: enhance inhibit graphical flow unit tests <Simple 😃> <Skip spread> <Created by ernestl> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/12544>
[15:43] <mup> PR snapd#12454 closed: gadget: return error if offset is less than 17408 bytes in gpt schema <Squash-merge> <Created by AristoChen> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/12454>
[15:43] <mup> PR snapd#12496 closed: interfaces: bluez: allow file descriptors to be shared via dbus <Created by dilyn-corner> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/12496>
[19:06] <mup> PR snapcraft#4027 opened: requirements: update craft-parts to 1.18.1 <Created by cmatsuoka> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/4027>
[21:01] <mup> PR snapcraft#4028 opened: linters: add linter check for unused libraries <Created by mr-cal> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/4028>
[21:36] <mup> PR snapcraft#4029 opened: lint: reformat for black 23.1.0 <Created by mr-cal> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/4029>


[13:36] <AndroiDoughBoy> I am new to Ubuntu and am trying to mount my windows partition in linux so I can copy over some files.  I used the wubi installer to install ubuntu while in windows. How do I now mount the windows partition.  I can not find it in /dev.


[21:14] <simtris> Chousuke:Intel Corporation Mobile GM965/GL960 Integrated Graphics Controller
[21:15] <Chousuke> I suppose X would grab a few dozen megabytes for video from main RAM
[21:15] <simtris> Chousuke:it didn't in the lastest stable release
[21:16] <Chousuke> then something is broken :)
[21:16] <simtris> Chousuke: it's ... quite heavy for a light system
[21:16] <Chousuke> I don't really know how to debug X memory usage though
[21:16] <void^> it's a difficult science
[21:16] <simtris> I see :)
[21:17] <simtris> and someone there have this science ?
[21:17] <simtris> or is there anyway to downgrade this part
[21:22] <GibbaTheHutt> hiya, is network-manager hidden away somewhere, or is it a case of you get network-manager only if already connected to the network
[21:26] <ripps> It still seems like Firefox is using too many resources, even without Flash.
[21:27] <simtris> ripps : hey I dont read the start of your issue but I have same problem
[21:27] <simtris> ripps: and for me it seem to be linked with Xorg
[21:28] <ripps> More of a comment than an issue.
[21:29] <simtris> ripps: how much memory does this two soft are taking ?
[21:29] <ripps> Depends, sometimes it's running fine, other times it grinds my desktop to a halt.
[21:29] <simtris> ripps: (lets say the cold launch with 2 tabs without flash)
[21:31] <ripps> Well, right now mine is at 63mb with 4 tabs open. I found things work a little nicer with script-blocker installed
[21:32] <simtris> ripps: U find that expensive ? It's quite normal I think. I have around 110 M
[21:33] <ripps> simtris: No, not at all. I think that is perfect. I think the slowness comes from some kind of processing problem, not memory.
[21:33] <KRF> eh? how can i get the german language pack in kde4 in intrepid? i thought installing kde-l10n-de is enough?
[21:33] <KRF> strings are only partly translated
[21:33] <ripps> Do the ubuntu devs compile firefox with Profile-Guided Optimization? I hear that really speeds up things like javascript.
[21:34] <antoranz> I didn't use a moduleload to load the bdb.la file
[21:39] <BrianFreytag> wb jemark
[21:40] <jemark> BrianFreytag: thanks
[21:41] <jemark> BrianFreytag: just downgraded to a lower kernel...
[21:41] <jemark> BrianFreytag: the 2.6.24-19-generic
[21:42] <BrianFreytag> jemark... and?
[21:42] <BrianFreytag> jemark... did that do anything for you graphics card wise?
[21:42] <jemark> BrianFreytag: the 2.6.24-21 gave a kernel panic with me iwl3945 driver... the backport which would solve this  is not yet released...
[21:43] <jemark> BrianFreytag: no, nothing for my graphics card... ;)
[21:43] <BrianFreytag> jemark... booo :)
[21:44] <jemark> BrianFreytag: yep... in intrepid there is still the same problem for the 3945 driver, so went back to the hardy kernel + backports
[21:45] <cliechti> i have upgraded my eeepc. good news is that suspend worked :-) the bad news is that it's still using the VESA driver.. and glxinfo crashes (segfault) on ctrl+c
[21:45] <jemark> BrianFreytag: i was just trying..
[21:46] <omni> I'm trying to set up a web-only kiosk. I've used debian as the base, and I need a way to make the system reboot when X dies for a certain user (or when firefox dies for that user). I notice that ubuntu automatically reboots when you end your X session - can anyone explain how I can emulate this?
[21:47] <jemark> omni: maybe use ubuntu?
[21:47] <cliechti> omni: use ubunti with the new "guest" account feature ;-)  sorry i have no answer for your question
[21:48] <omni> the machines this will be installed onto won't handle ubu, only 256mb ram
[21:48] <jemark> cliechti: i: the guest feature is not for kiosk use...
[21:49] <jemark> omni: i see, maybe xubunt works?
[21:49] <cliechti> jemark: yeah. i have not yet tried it. just read about it on the features page. but not storing anytthing sounds useful for kiosk usage
[21:50] <BrianFreytag> brb
[21:50] <jemark> cliechti: but you have the login a user first before you can go to a guest space...
[21:50] <cliechti> hm. whats the replacement for /etc/inittab?
[21:50] <omni> jemark: too sluggish, I need to use a raw deb with x-window-system-core and kdebase (not even full kde)
[21:51] <cliechti> omni: you can also install ubuntu that way. there is the server installation where you start with a text console only, and grab what you want later
[21:52] <ripps> I'm trying the new Swiftweasel 3.0.3 PGO build to see if it's faster than the Firefox
[21:52] <jemark> ripps: good luck
[21:53] <jemark> cliechti: i wish yo best of luck. i have to go... sorry that i couldn't help u further
[21:54] <jemark> omni:  i wish yo best of luck. i have to go... sorry that i couldn't help u further
[21:54] <cliechti> :-)
[21:54] <jemark> hehe :)
[22:08] <ripps> So far it looks like Swiftweasel is working great. I just symlinked ~/.mozilla/firefox to ~/.sw3/swiftweasel, and all my firefox settings are shared.
[22:10] <cliechti> how do i find out what X took for a driver?
[22:11] <RAOF> cliechti: grep -i driver /var/log/Xorg.0.log
[22:12] <cliechti> RAOF: thanks. hm it looks like it correctly detecting i810. but it fails to load glx
[22:13] <RAOF> cliechti: Want to pastebin the file?
[22:15] <cliechti> RAOF: hm, skimming through it. there is not much useful. the line with the error says "failed to init GLX (nvidia x driver not found)".. thats right its not nvidia, its i810
[22:16] <cliechti> setting the size to 211x126 is also funny... but that no problem as in the end it's getting the correct resolution :-)
[22:20] <hardy> Hi, I just updated my system and now when I boot I have black screen. No login manager, what can I do please?
[22:22] <hardy> any one here faced the same problem?
[22:22] <tanath> i just updated & rebooted, and the network manager says i have no connection
[22:22] <tanath> also says i have an eth1, which i don't
[22:22] <moreati> A slightly out one. Running Intrepid beta, is gnome-terminal meant to be slightly translucent, or have I configured something and forgotten?
[22:23] <hardy> tanath: at least you can login to your X ;)
[22:23] <tanath> hardy, heh
[22:23] <cliechti> hardy: not the same, but 3D isnt working anymore here.  and you don't get a text mode error message?
[22:23] <hardy> any one here with an ati card?
[22:23] <tanath> me...
[22:23] <hardy> cliechti: no I am getting nothing just a black screen
[22:24] <hardy> tanath: and you updated and still can log to your X?
[22:24] <cliechti> tanath: statically configured in /etc/network/interfaces?
[22:24] <tanath> hardy, yeah. you getting nothing but a black screen when booting?
[22:24] <cliechti> hardy: ctrl+alt+1 doesnt give you a text console?
[22:24] <hardy> tanath: yes
[22:24] <tanath> cliechti, shouldn't be
[22:24] <hardy> cliechti: yes it gives me a text console from which I am speaking to you now
[22:24] <tanath> hardy, does the login screen come up if you leave it to fully boot?
[22:24] <hardy> tanath: no
[22:25] <cliechti> hardy: less /var/log/Xorg.0.log :-)
[22:25] <hardy> tanath: in F7 no but I can go to Alt+F1 e.g
[22:25] <hardy> cliechti: I did but what can I look for?
[22:25] <giucav79> hi who had the character problem with intrepid kubuntu ?
[22:26] <tanath> hardy, hardy this may work anyway. install v86d
[22:26] <cliechti> tanath: i just read in the beta info, that statically configured entries could be a problem. i myself had a problem that the network manager was removed on upgrade.. but now it works fine
[22:26] <ripps> cliechti: I had this problem too. I simply removed any mention of vga=xxx from config.
[22:26] <tanath> cliechti, i'm using dhcp
[22:26] <ripps> cliechti: by config, i mean /boot/grub/menu.lst
[22:27] <tanath> hardy, i had a similar prob, and someone told me to install that, and it fixed it. should be a dependency, but isn't
[22:27] <cliechti> tanath: yeah, but my /etc/network/interfaces has just "lo" in it, no other interface
[22:28] <cliechti> ripps: for the GLX error? (3 topics at the same time now :-)
[22:28] <tanath> cliechti, http://pastebin.ca/1222131
[22:29] <RAOF> cliechti: Has anyone helped you yet?  That means you've accidentally installed a nvidia-glx- package, probably nvidia-glx-173 (which got pulled in by mistake at some point).
[22:29] <hardy> ripps: I don't have that line
[22:29] <RAOF> cliechti: Remove all the nvidia-glx-* packages, and 3d will work again.
[22:29] <cliechti> tanath: try to comment out the iface lines for eth0 and eth1, as well as the auto line at the end. the network manager should find these interfaces by its own
[22:29] <hardy> tanath: I installed it now. can I try it without booting?
[22:30] <tanath> hardy, i think you need to reboot for v86d to work
[22:30] <hardy> tanath: ok I will do and see you again soon ... thanks for your care
[22:30] <tanath> cliechti, it's weird. there shouldn't be a line there for eth1. it doesn't exist
[22:31] <tanath> but i'll figure this out later. gotta go. thanks
[22:31] <cliechti> RAOF: i found someone with a similar problem where that helped too. well... the nvidia packages must have been installed with the dist-upgrade from 8.04 to 8.10. it was working fine bfore the upgrade. anyway.. trying..
[22:32] <cliechti> weird, synaptics shows no hit when searching for nvidia..
[22:33] <cliechti> ok, that was some weird feature of normal search + quicksearch
[22:35] <bardyr> has anybody experienced bug #271911 or where changing virtual tty resolution works?
[22:36] <noelferreira> do you know when propritary drivers from nvidia will work?
[22:37] <RAOF> noelferreira: Right now, assuming you've got a card newer than a geforce 4.
[22:38] <RAOF> If you've got a GF4 or lower, who knows?  I certainly don't.  You'd need to ask nVidia.
[22:38] <noelferreira> :)
[22:39] <noelferreira>  nVidia Corporation NV20 [GeForce3 Ti 200] (rev a3) RAOF
[22:39] <RAOF> Ba baw.
[22:39] <RAOF> So, indeed, no idea.
[22:41] <cliechti> RAOF: ok, 3D is back again. removing the package helped. but the visual style also changed (from dark to light blue)
[22:41] <cliechti> and when starting the "themes" settings it restores the theme even before i selected something
[22:42] <cliechti> but jockey-gtk is crashed.. whatever that is
[22:46] <Pici> jockey-gtk is the "restricted drivers manager"
[22:47] <edgy> Hi, who was helping me 3 mins ago regarding my X not working and suggested v86d or something
[22:48] <edgy> sorry I rebooted and didn't remember the nick
[22:49] <cliechti> Pici: thanks. it crashed for the 1st time here. and starting the settings->hardware driver works fine. hm. anyway
[22:51] <edgy> cliechti: it's you who suggested the v86d trick for me?
[22:51] <cliechti> edgy: nope
	hardy, hardy this may work anyway. install v86d
[22:51] <edgy> cliechti: aha! thanks
[22:52] <edgy> cliechti: it seems he got out now
[22:52] <edgy> any way if any one faced my problem that X is not working and no login manager and he has ati card after the last update. removing xserver-xorg-radeonhd fixed it for me
[22:53] <kane77> hi, did anyone notice suspend stopped working? it worked flawlessly in alpha, now it does not work anymore..
[22:54] <cliechti> kane77: au contraire, it worked for the 1st time on the eeepc. several times and without problems :-)
[22:55] <kane77> hmm.. weird, for me it worked almost good in hardy (if I pressed keys for few seconds then it did wake up) in intrepid it worked like magic..
[22:56] <fabio> hi, anyone else having problem with network-manager? when i boot up nm-applet just shows me "no network devices available", but i know that there is eth0 and wlan0
[22:56] <kane77> fabio, do they show with ifconfig?
[22:57] <fabio> yes they do
[22:57] <antoranz> fabio: i don't know if this is important to you, but the network manager is now a service... and will make noise with the old networking service
[22:57] <fabio> i can get an ip adress for them from my router using dhclient
[22:57] <cliechti> fabio: the link in the topic has a note in "known issues". do you have entries in /etc/network/interfaces?
[22:57] <antoranz> I disabled the network manager and allowed the old service to take over
[22:58] <fabio> auto lo
[22:58] <fabio> iface lo inet loopback
[22:58] <fabio> all i have in interfaces
[22:58] <fabio> this is a freshly installed intrepid beta
[22:58] <cliechti> mee to. that is  fine
[22:59] <fsufitch> hey guys, i'm having a major issue with my upgrade from 8.04 to 8.10. Gnome won't start unless it's failsafe mode, but I can't figure out what's killing it. The only thing that happens when I log in to regular Gnome is the mouse appears. No nautilus, gnome-panel, metacity/compiz, etc. In failsafe mode, it works perfectly, as if it were regular gnome. Any ideas?
[23:00] <fabio> when i do /etc/init.d/NetworkManager restart
[23:00] <fabio> the applet crashes
[23:00] <fabio> once i click on it my whole desktop is frozen
[23:01] <edgy> any one knows what control which driver is used e.g radeon or radeonhd depending on what?
[23:02] <perlluver> I have a question about NFS in Intrepid
[23:03] <kane77> I have not updated for few days and today it suggested package uswsusp, will try that and see if it fixes suspend again
[23:04] <fsufitch> edgy: i woudl recommend the restricted driver for radeon, if they provide one
[23:04] <fsufitch> i work on nvidia, so i dont know too much about radeon ;)
[23:05] <edgy> fsufitch: it's not available yest
[23:05] <edgy> s/yest/yet
[23:05] <fsufitch> ah
[23:05] <fsufitch> well, i worked with radeon before i got my new computer, and i'm trying to remember what drivers i used to get it working
[23:07] <edgy> fsufitch: I tried dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg and it didn't ask me for drivers to choose from
[23:08] <fsufitch> edgy: ubuntuforums seems to point to radeon/radeonhd, but those are installed by default
[23:08] <edgy> what's the recommended way to switch X drivers without editing xorg.conf
[23:08] <edgy> fsufitch: yes but even if they are installed how you control which one is used?
[23:08] <fsufitch> xorg is supposed to select its own drivers ;)
[23:09] <fsufitch> editing xorg.conf is the only way to force a driver on it
[23:09] <fsufitch> that, or using the blacklist
[23:12] <fsufitch> edgy: i really think xorg.conf is the way to go here though
[23:12] <fsufitch> i dunno, somebody more knowledgeable than me on X with radeon can help
[23:12] <fabio> hmm it seems like network-manager itself is working, just the applet is borken
[23:13] <edgy> fsufitch: np, thanks a lot for the hints
[23:13] <fsufitch> edgy: no prob
[23:13] <ninjafury> Guys, what sound server does Kubuntu Ibex use by default?
[23:18] <motz> what modes must i write in xorg.conf for display
[23:18] <motz> wont start wo
[23:18] <cliechti> none, normally
[23:19] <motz> hmm solved problem with hybrid ati
[23:19] <motz> maybe because of vesa mode?
[23:19] <ninjafury> has anyone been using pulseAudio? How stable is it?
[23:19] <motz> xserver gives error because of no modes in conf and starts in shell   no gui
[23:20] <wgrant> edgy: radeonhd will be used if it is installed. It's a bug that it's installed by default, and it is being fixed.
[23:20] <cliechti> ninjafury: me has no problem with pulse audio on hardy
[23:20] <wgrant> motz: What happens if you move your xorg.conf somewhere else?
[23:20] <wgrant> ninjafury: Hardy and Intrepid use it by default.
[23:20] <edgy> wgrant: it's not fixed
[23:20] <wgrant> edgy: It is being fixed. A fix is in git.
[23:20] <wgrant> edgy: Just remove xserver-xorg-video-radeonhd
[23:20] <ninjafury> wgrant: even when using KDE4?
[23:21] <wgrant> ninjafury: No - wouldn't that use Phonon?
[23:21] <wgrant> I'm not a KDE person any more, however.
[23:21] <ninjafury> wgrant: thats what I thought. Is there an advantage to switching from Phonon to Pulse?
[23:21] <RAOF> EINVALID
[23:21] <wgrant> ninjafury: Yes - avoiding NIH
[23:22] <wgrant> RAOF: Hm?
[23:22] <motz> think then he makes an  new empty default ones
[23:22] <RAOF> Well, you don't "switch" from Phonon to Pulse - Phonon is an extra layer over the top of everything else.
[23:22] <wgrant> motz: No.
[23:22] <RAOF> As I undersand it, at least.
[23:22] <edgy> wgrant: yes I did and it solved my problem but I didn't understand the issue because xorg install all those drivers whether needed or not and choose one depending on what?
[23:22] <wgrant> Ampelbein: I thought it was like a horrible combination of GStreamer and PulseAudio.
[23:22] <ninjafury> wgrant: sorry, what is NIH?
[23:22] <RAOF> It's not actually a sound server - it's an abstraction of a multimedia framework :)
[23:22] <wgrant> ninjafury: Not Invented Here syndrome.
[23:23] <motz> should i try?
[23:23] <wgrant> motz: You should.
[23:23] <RAOF> I don't _think_ it contains a sound server :)
[23:23] <motz> move to root ?
[23:23] <wgrant> edgy: There is an order in which drivers are tried if there are multiple available.
[23:23] <wgrant> motz: move it to xorg.conf.old or similar.
[23:23] <motz> OK
[23:23] <edgy> wgrant: exactly my question is where is this order?
[23:24] <motz> dunno how to   , with chmod gg
[23:24] <wgrant> edgy: radeonhd is greater than radeon.
[23:24] <motz> -rename ?
[23:24] <wgrant> I don't quite know where it is all defined.
[23:25] <edgy> wgrant: is this hard coded?
[23:25] <wgrant> motz: sudo mv /etc/X11/xorg.conf{,old}
[23:25] <wgrant> edgy: Likely.
[23:25] <motz> ok
[23:25] <edgy> wgrant: ok thanks
[23:26] <cliechti> wgrant: you missed a "." in that command line ;-) -- nice, did not know that trick
[23:27] <wgrant> cliechti: So I did, though it won't break anything.
[23:27] <cliechti> i know
[23:27] <cliechti> :-)
[23:32] <KenBW2> is Intrepid a compelling upgrade?
[23:32] <BrianFreytag> KenBW2: depends on what you consider compelling... if you're not afraid that some things will inevitably break, I'd definitely go for it
[23:33] <gregor> totem is freezed when opening with and without specific file(s), how can i help you, to solve the problem?
[23:33] <KenBW2> well, im a tad upset about the lack of new theme,, but i mean will i notice a few good things changed (i wasnt overamazed by Hardy)
[23:35] <Memo_> I was a little upset that Hardy didn't learn how to take my trash out for pick-up.
[23:35] <KenBW2> youre saying im expecting too much from a 6-monthly upgrade?
[23:35] <BrianFreytag> KenBW2: eh... wait till Ubuntu 9.  It will shock and awe.  This is just an upgrade
[23:36] <motz> wgrant why cant i just put in the modes?
[23:36] <wgrant> gregor: That's due to the BBC plugin - you can disable it for now, but it's being worked on.
[23:36] <wgrant> motz: Because we need to work out why it doesn't work by default.
[23:37] <KenBW2> wgrant: i read about the BBC plugin - is it to do with iPlayer?
[23:37] <motz> is it normal that they new conf is so empty`?
[23:37] <wgrant> motz: Yes - you don't need a conf at all.
[23:37] <wgrant> motz: X is meant to autodetect everything.
[23:37] <motz> normaly ;)
[23:37] <wgrant> KenBW2: I think it might be related, but I've just glanced at it.
[23:38] <wgrant> motz: And if it doesn't, we need a bug filed so we can fix it.
[23:38] <motz> ok
[23:38] <motz> intrpid was first confust about ati hybrid crossfire ;)
[23:38] <motz> donno  witch is primary...
[23:40] <gregor> wgrant: /home/<username>/.gconf/apps/totem/plugins/bbc/%gconf.xml changed from true to false, but totem is freezing again..
[23:41] <BrianFreytag> use VLC
[23:42] <wgrant> gregor: It should unfreeze after a few minutes - disable it using the GUI and see if that works.
[23:42] <wgrant> BrianFreytag: Not a solution.
[23:45] <gregor> wgrant, works, thanks :)
[23:47] <linny> is it possible to install virtual box ose on ibes or dont we have the correct kernel modules yet ? i tried the regular way i did on hardy to no avail
[23:48] <linny> ibes = ibex :)
[23:48] <jaysonsantos> Hello people, My webcam in intrepid is showing a green screen, howto solve ?
[23:49] <Memo_> buy other colors of spray paint
[23:49] <jaysonsantos> Memo_> Sorry my english, I don't know how to explain that.
[23:50] <cliechti> jaysonsantos: your english is fine
[23:51] <BrianFreytag> Memo_: you are cruel :)
[23:52] <linny> is it possible to install virtual box ose on ibes or dont we have the correct kernel modules yet ? i tried the regular way i did on hardy to no avail.. anyone ?
[23:53] <cliechti> linny: what's regualr? apt-get?
[23:53] <linny> yes and no
[23:53] <linny> sudo apt-get install virtualbox-ose virtualbox-ose-source
[23:53] <linny> sudo apt-get install module-assistant
[23:53] <linny> sudo m-a prepare
[23:53] <linny> sudo m-a a-i virtualbox-ose
[23:53] <linny> sudo modprobe vboxdrv
[23:53] <linny> thats how i did it on hardy
[23:54] <cliechti> ah. i downloaded the package from the website, that upgrades the kernel module automatically
[23:54] <linny> module assitant
[23:55] <Memo_> that seems like the long way of doing it manually
[23:56] <cliechti> jaysonsantos: hm, i just plugged in my webacm and tested using "cheese-website", works here. what application did you use?
[23:56] <Memo_> ive always just run /etc/init.d/vboxdrv
[23:56] <jaysonsantos> cliechti> I tried with camorama and xawtv
[23:57] <linny> Memo_: pls tell me another way to try then pls
[23:57] <cliechti> jaysonsantos: xawtv can be tricky, it can get settings wrong sometimes. i dont know the other one. did you check the output of dmesg for errors?
[23:58] <tonyyarusso> So, my system has apparently decided that it's going to suspend after 15 minutes of inactivity, even though I don't have such a directive configured.  Anyone know why and how to prevent this?  (I'm talking about a laptop but while on AC power, btw.)
[23:58] <Memo_> linny, what's the error or actual problem?
[23:59] <jaysonsantos> cliechti> dmesg don't show any errors about webcam
[23:59] <linny> when i make with sudo m-a a-i virtualbox-ose, it fails and the log file just has the date and time on it its empty


[11:40] <age6racer> hi all, I want to start firefox at the start of a session and I need it to respawn if it is closed. Will the following jobfile work? http://pastebin.com/meee0801 (I am on Ubuntu Gutsy)
[15:01] <matteo> hi
[15:02] <matteo> Md: what a surprise!
[15:04] <sadmac_> Keybuk: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=437379
[15:04] <sadmac_> ^^thoughts?
[15:22] <Keybuk> sadmac_: there is no runlevel syntax in 0.3
[15:22] <Keybuk> err, I mean && syntax
[15:23] <Keybuk> the best thing I can think of is to make sure that the serial-console-available events aren't emitted until you want them
[15:23] <sadmac_> Keybuk: I figured. What's the next workaround?
[15:23] <sadmac_> hmm. that might involve doing nasty nasty things to udev.
[15:23] <Keybuk> yeah
[15:23] <Keybuk> you're encountering a lot of problems with your gettys :)
[15:23] <sadmac_> yep
[15:24] <Keybuk> you really can't do what you're trying to do with 0.3 :-/
[15:25] <sadmac_> I'm thinking about adding a wait-for command to initctl that will just block until a given event is recieved.
[15:26] <sadmac_> then we can hack this into pre-start
[15:26] <Keybuk> you could do that
[15:26] <Keybuk> though that's inherently racy :)
[15:26] <Keybuk> since what happens if the event has already been received?
[15:26] <sadmac_> true.
[15:26] <sadmac_> I also need to add telinit u
[15:29] <Keybuk> what does that one do?
[15:38] <Keybuk> isn't that just kill -TERM 1 ?
[15:39] <Keybuk> which version of Fedora are you targetting upstart for?
[16:40] <sadmac_> Keybuk: upstart will be appearing in F9
[16:40] <sadmac_> Keybuk: and yes, telinit u does just kill -TERM 1. we already have a 3-liner patch that implements it by doing exactly that.
[16:41] <Keybuk> F9 is out on Halloween?
[16:42] <Keybuk> You do seem to be trying to do more with Upstart than you were doing with sysvinit
[16:43] <Keybuk> but I guess that's inherent for you because you have to justify using it instead of sysvinit?
[16:43] <Keybuk> whereas in Ubuntu, the justification for using Upstart with the exact same feature set *as* sysvinit is simply testing and debugging
[16:43] <Keybuk> you've pretty much hit every single reason that I stopped developing 0.3 and focussed on 0.5 instead
[16:43] <Keybuk> they weren't trivial patches, but some major redesigns that needed to happen to the core
[16:44] <sadmac_> The sysvinit stuff was kinda brokenish. Upstart features are often easier to do than preserving our own precarious setups.
[16:45] <sadmac_> What we're replacing here is stuff that's legacy from red hat linux 6 and earlier. Its hackish.
[16:45] <Keybuk> *nods*
[16:47] <sadmac_> If all goes well and we get 0.5 for F10, then F10 might nearly qualify as a new distro :)
[16:48] <AlexExtreme> I haven't noticed any change at all in the startup process and the way the sysv scripts are managed since RH6
[16:48]  * AlexExtreme wonders if he still has his boxed copy of RH6
[16:51] <Keybuk> I think that was about the last version I used
[16:51] <ion_> Same here
[16:55] <sadmac_> I'll have to mail out install media to everyone
[16:56] <sadmac_> :)
[16:56]  * AlexExtreme currently uses an RH-based distro on all his boxes, so doesn't need it ;)
[16:57] <sadmac_> AlexExtreme: which one? Or does it vary?
[16:57] <AlexExtreme> varies
[16:57] <AlexExtreme> main box F8, test box rawhide, my VPS CentOS
[16:57] <AlexExtreme> and CentOS on the router
[16:58] <ion_> sadmac: Btw, i found another use for wait-for-file: http://gitweb.heh.fi/?p=ion/ubuntu/compcache.git;a=blob;f=debian/compcache-utils.init;hb=ubuntu :-)
[16:58] <sadmac_> nice
[16:59] <sadmac_> ion_: nice
[16:59]  * sadmac_ goes to class
[16:59] <ion_> I learned that /dev/compcache0 might appear just a little while after modprobe has returned.
[17:00] <Keybuk> heh
[17:00] <Keybuk> that would split that job in two though, right?
[17:01] <Keybuk>   start on <something>
[17:01] <Keybuk>   exec modprobe compcache
[17:01] <Keybuk> --
[17:01] <Keybuk>   start on modprobe-compcache and file-exists /dev/compcache0
[17:01] <ion_> Yeah
[17:01] <Keybuk>   exec swapon -p 100 /dev/compcache0
[17:01] <Keybuk> ?
[18:15] <jdong> Amaranth: and yeah, full upstart boot
[18:15] <Amaranth> jdong: sweet
[18:15] <Keybuk> jdong: hi :)
[18:15] <Amaranth> is it faster? :)
[18:15] <jdong> Keybuk: hi :)
[18:16] <Keybuk> back up a bit, it's less insane here
[18:16] <Keybuk> what's the problem and question?
[18:16] <jdong> Amaranth: around 15s
[18:16] <Amaranth> jdong: damn
[18:16] <ion_> Neat
[18:16] <jdong> Keybuk: a lot of my upstart rules are hackish "states", as in a pre-start script /etc/init.d/foobar start
[18:16] <jdong> Keybuk: google told me to use the "service" keyword for that
[18:17] <jdong> Keybuk: my question is, does this in any way prevent parallelized service startups?
[18:17] <jdong> Amaranth: right now I'm mostly IO bound -- I'm sure my readahead is wasteful and incomplete at the same time
[18:18] <jdong> Amaranth: I'm thinking about disabling or drastically lowering pdflush during bootup
[18:18] <Keybuk> ok
[18:18] <Amaranth> disable the page cache during boot?
[18:18] <Keybuk> the difference between "service" and not specifying it is the difference between a service and a task
[18:18] <Keybuk> (ie. those with "service" are services, those with tasks are not)
[18:19] <jdong> Amaranth: disable the periodic writeback flush
[18:19] <Amaranth> ah, right
[18:19] <Amaranth> that sounds dangerous :P
[18:19] <Keybuk> a task is expected to complete before it has deemed to have been successful, or to have failed
[18:19] <Keybuk> a service is only expected to have become running
[18:19] <Keybuk> Amaranth: ironically maybe less dangerous - since the next boot will be the same as the current one in cases of crash
[18:20] <Keybuk> this affects how events and commands block
[18:20] <jdong> Keybuk: ah, that makes sense
[18:20] <Keybuk> "start task" will block until the task actually finishes
[18:20] <Keybuk> (ie. you'll see the pre-start, post-start, main, pre-stop and post-stop scripts in the output)
[18:20] <Keybuk> "start service" will only block until the task is running
[18:20] <Amaranth> jdong: gimme :)
[18:20] <jdong> Keybuk: so with a service, what does the "pre-start" script block?
[18:20] <Keybuk> (ie. you'll see the pre-start, post-start and main scripts in the output)
[18:21] <Keybuk> jdong: life cycle of the job itself is unchanged
[18:21] <Keybuk> it only affects the things that change the job
[18:21] <Keybuk> ie. if you use the "start" command or "emit" command anywhere
[18:21] <jdong> Keybuk: ah, so during bootup can multiple services be "starting up" if they don't depend on each other?
[18:21] <Keybuk> yeah
[18:21] <jdong> Keybuk: sweet
[18:21] <Keybuk> though note that if you do
[18:21] <Keybuk>   start apache
[18:21] <Keybuk>   start dbus
[18:22] <Keybuk> and apache is a task (no "service" stanza), then dbus won't be started until apache *stops*
[18:22] <jdong> Keybuk: ok, that makes sense
[18:22] <Keybuk> so service is probably far closely to what you want for all of these things
[18:22] <jdong> Keybuk: so it's reasonable to wrap an init script into an upstart job using service?
[18:22] <Keybuk> (a long standing issue is that service probably should be the default, and task require the stanza)
[18:22] <Keybuk> very reasonable
[18:23] <Keybuk> all init scripts in rc2 are generally services
[18:23] <jdong> Keybuk: also, are compound start conditions supposed to work?
[18:23] <Keybuk> whereas all init scripts in rcS are generally tasks
[18:23] <Keybuk> jdong: only in trunk
[18:23] <jdong> Keybuk: well that explains a lot! :)
[18:23] <Keybuk> the reason that task is the default is that respawning tasks makes no sense
[18:23] <Keybuk> so it'd have to be an error to give both respawn *and* task
[18:24] <Keybuk> and the code didn't have the ability to emit that kind of parsing error for a long time ;)
[18:24] <jdong> Keybuk: also, what's the shutdown event?
[18:24] <Keybuk> jdong: whatever you define it as
[18:24] <Keybuk> upstart has no specific notion of shutdown
[18:24] <Keybuk> (though it probably needs one, to disable respawning of services)
[18:24] <jdong> Keybuk: oh, so I need to do that :)
[18:25] <jdong> Amaranth: http://jdong.mit.edu/~jdong/event.d.tar.gz
[18:25] <jdong> Amaranth: warning: I didn't port S20nvidia-kernel as I don't have nvidia stuff
[18:25] <jdong> Amaranth: warning 2: usplash must be off. I'll look into that $eventually
[18:25] <Amaranth> heh
[18:25] <Amaranth> hmm, really fast boot or nvidia and usplash? :P
[18:27] <jdong> Amaranth: :) the decision is so difficult
[18:27] <Keybuk> nvidia-kernel is evil
[18:27] <jdong> Amaranth: Note that I also hackishly knocked out rcS/rc2's actually spawning of init.d/rc :)
[18:27] <Keybuk> it wouldn't be necessary if the nvidia kernel module was ported to udev
[18:28] <Amaranth> good luck there
[18:29] <Keybuk> nouveau ftw
[18:29] <Amaranth> some year
[18:29] <Amaranth> actually probably end of the year for me
[18:43] <Amaranth> jdong: interesting, so all this does is wrap the existing init scripts in upstart jobs so you can do an event driven boot
[18:44] <AlexExtreme> not fully native?
[18:44] <Amaranth> no
[18:45] <Amaranth> it just wraps the init scripts so they can be started in parallel and in an event driven way
[18:45] <AlexExtreme> fair enough
[18:45] <Amaranth> i don't see how that would break usplash
[18:45] <AlexExtreme> it possibly could
[18:46] <AlexExtreme> was it faster than normal?
[18:46] <Amaranth> jdong can apparently boot in 15 seconds now?
[18:47] <Amaranth> but i think last time i asked him he was booting in 21 seconds anyway
[18:47] <AlexExtreme> i got around that when I did a fully native boot quite a while ago
[18:47] <AlexExtreme> possibly less, can't quite remember
[18:47] <AlexExtreme> haven't got the bootcharts to hand atm
[19:13] <jdong> Amaranth: I just got bootchart hooked in and when all activity stops, it's around 22s
[19:14] <jdong> Amaranth: but stopwatch time is around 15s to the point I can log in
[19:14] <jdong> Amaranth: bootchart has exposed a few bottlenecks that I'll work on :)
[19:14] <Amaranth> cool
[19:15] <Amaranth> jdong: and what was your times before using upstart?
[19:16] <jdong> a bit over 30 I bleieve
[19:16] <jdong> Amaranth: I've got a backup of /etc, I will time a "before" afterwards :)
[19:25] <sadmac_> Keybuk: can you explain the speed reports we've gotten?
[19:26] <ion_> sadmac: What speed reports?
[19:26] <sadmac_> ion_: people are claiming fedora boots faster and shuts down MUCH faster with upstart, even though at the moment upstart is doing exactly what sysv did.
[19:27] <ion_> I think Ubuntu got those reports as well and it was 100% subjective. :-)
[19:27] <ion_> A placebo effect.
[19:27] <AlexExtreme> probably people *think* there's a speed improvement :P
[19:27] <ion_> Unless someone has actually measured a difference?
[19:27] <jdong> ion_: yeah indeed I've seen such reports with Ubuntu
[19:27] <sadmac_> ion_: I remember seeing that one person had measured. a couple seconds faster on either side.
[19:28] <jdong> I'm going to have some upstart vs upstart-sysv-compat bootcharts ready in 30s
[19:28] <jdong> on Ubuntu at least :)
[19:30] <sadmac_> Fedora is definitely going to be faster. Only because we'll need to rewrite a bunch of things that are overdue for it.
[19:33] <mbiebl_> sadmac_: what are your plans for fedora? do you want to switch to a completely upstartified boot process in fc9+1.
[19:33] <mbiebl_> Or will move over gradually
[19:33] <mbiebl_> supporting both old sysvinit+upstart jobs
[19:34] <mbiebl_> in parallel
[19:34] <sadmac_> mbiebl_: all the sysinit and lower level stuff will be upstart. Getting things like apache etc. to use upstart depends on how long it takes me to force the maintainers to do it.
[19:34] <sadmac_> so both will be present, though ideally sysvinit won't be used for anything.
[19:34] <ion_> Could use a BFDL? :-)
[19:35] <ion_> DF
[19:35] <jdong> http://jdong.mit.edu/~jdong/macbook/bootchart-sysv.png
[19:35] <jdong> http://jdong.mit.edu/~jdong/macbook/bootchart-upstart.png
[19:35] <jdong> upstart vs sysv bootchart
[19:35] <jdong> but that doesn't tell the whole story -- with upstart g
[19:35] <jdong> with upstart GDM is up and waiting to log in almost 10s earlier
[19:36] <mbiebl_> sadmac_: will do define a state like "multiuser"
[19:36] <mbiebl_> when certain upstart jobs are running you enter this stage and from that on you will run the sysv scripts?
[19:36] <jdong> note the period from 20-25s and how much more fully upstart was able to utilize system resources...
[19:36] <sadmac_> ion_: where benevolence toward the project and malevolance toward its contributors are not necessarily mutually exclusive, yes.
[19:37] <sadmac_> mbiebl_: hard to say.
[19:38] <sadmac_> jdong: looks like 8s improvement
[19:38] <jdong> sadmac_: indeed
[19:39] <jdong> sadmac_: but considering that initramfs->readahead->udevtrigger is really not improvable by ANY init system.... remove those from the times
[19:39] <mbiebl_> sadmac: I'd be interested if you plan to convert the scripts bottom-up or top-down.
[19:39] <jdong> sadmac_: and as far as actually starting up of services, it's a much bigger improvement factor.
[19:39] <ion_> Would be nice to replace readahead with filesystem block rearranging. :-)
[19:39] <jdong> look at the compactness of the area from about 12s on, when readahead finishes
[19:40] <jdong> ion_: indeed :)
[19:40] <jdong> also note my slow-arse macbook hard drive
[19:40] <sadmac_> mbiebl_: my first desire for the F10 cycle is that rc.sysinit disappear completely.
[19:40] <jdong> had I NOT had a 12MB/s max IO limit...
[19:42] <mbiebl_> sadmac when will f9 be released?
[19:43] <sadmac_> mbiebl_: Some time in May.
[19:45] <sadmac_> mbiebl_: 29 April by current schedule
[20:44]  * jdong now plans writing all these init scripts in native upstart....
[20:50] <jdong> Keybuk: so with a service where pre-start could take a while, does the service count as "started" after the pre-start script exits?
[20:51] <jdong> i.e. if foo "starts on started bar", and bar just sleeps 30 in its pre-start, will upstart wait out that 30s before starting foo?
[22:49] <jdong> does upstart ignore any types of files in event.d? dotfiles maybe?
[23:33] <Keybuk> jdong: started yes
[23:33]  * Keybuk sets mode +v
[23:33] <Keybuk> that is to say, a service does not count as started until pre-start finishes
[23:33] <Keybuk> (actually later, but that's close enough for your kinds of service)
[23:34] <Keybuk> if you want to know if it has simply "been started", use starting instead
[23:44] <Amaranth> jdong: 5 lousy seconds?
[23:44] <Amaranth> that's painful
[23:44] <Amaranth> then again your boot is tweaked to hell anyway :P
[23:47] <Keybuk> 5s is pretty good
[23:47] <Keybuk> as long as the boot doesn't slow down, I'd be happy
[23:47] <ion_> Yeah
[23:49] <Keybuk> actually, right now, I'd be happy if I could stop procrastinating about this damned dbus bindings tool
[23:49] <Amaranth> Keybuk: I want me computer to be on before I even think to hit the power button :P
[23:49] <Amaranth> s/me/my/
[23:49] <Keybuk> Amaranth: that's when we get reliable suspend and resume
[23:50] <Keybuk>   stop on suspend
[23:50] <Keybuk>   start on resume
[23:50] <Amaranth> eh?
[23:50] <Keybuk> "wake on esp"
[23:50] <Amaranth> hehe
[23:51] <Amaranth> can a service stop on suspend like that though?
[23:51] <ion_> I was amazed when the suspend feature on this laptop i recently got (ye olde Compaq with whopping 64 MiB of RAM and a faulty monitor) actually worked on the first try. :-)
[23:51] <Amaranth> would be nicer than editing /etc/default/acpi-support to stop/start stuff
[23:51] <ion_> Sure it can.
[23:51] <Keybuk> why not?
[23:51] <Amaranth> cool
[23:52] <Keybuk> HAL/GnomePowerManager would just need to send a dbus message to Upstart before actually initiating the syspend
[23:52] <Amaranth> although then you'll be blamed for slowing down the suspend/resume even more :P
[23:52] <Keybuk> gets rid of all the hacky scripts and stuff that do it right now
[23:52] <Amaranth> yeah, that's true
[23:53] <Amaranth> upstart - removes the nasty hacks made to keep sysvinit working


[02:34] <mup> PR operator#655 opened: Exec test fixes <Created by benhoyt> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/655>
[09:15] <mup> PR operator#656 opened: Document the 'containers' attribute of ops.charm.CharmMeta <Created by mmanciop> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/656>


[17:43] <Ekushey> hello xxmate
[17:43] <xxmate> hi :)
[17:43] <xxmate> Ekushey, i'm using a arch based linux distro
[17:43] <Ekushey> first time here?
[17:43] <xxmate> Manjaro Linux
[17:43] <xxmate> yeah
[17:44] <xxmate> can i use probhat keyboard on arch?
[17:44] <Ekushey> not seeing a reason why can't use it
[17:44] <xxmate> how?
[17:44] <xxmate> i don't have any idea acutually
[17:44] <xxmate> i'm new on linux
[17:45] <Ekushey> since this is a non ubuntu related issue, please join #bangladesh
[17:45] <xxmate> okay :) r u on #bangladesh now?
[17:45] <xxmate> yes i've got u :)
[17:45] <xxmate> can u reply me on there?


[00:11] <kc2bez> wxl: ignore my previous comment, that was unrelated. The bug does look to be fixed in the CI build from my quick test however.
 Git bisect time :D
 @tsimonq2 [But @HMollerCl can], This is the pcmanfm in lxde I thought wxl had an idea of the problem
 @tsimonq2 [Git bisect time :D], Was that in reply to me?
 @kc2bez [Was that in reply to me?], Yes
 Oh, crazy replied to wxl in IRC. :) Do you want a patch?
 Oh, sure
 Ok. I can work on it tomorrow night if that is good.
 Sure!
 Thanks
[05:16] <guiverc> Thanks & Sorry wxl,  I'm not with it enough today so giving up.  I'll test & try again (& correct comments on 1822249 & 1823569) tomorrow
[05:17] <wxl> no problem guiverc
[05:46] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T40: Cala segfault when performing action with no selection] wxl (Walter Lapchynski) just created this task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T40
[12:39] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T40: Cala segfault when performing action with no selection] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) commented on the task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T40#414
[12:54] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T2: Fix EFI encryption] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) commented on the task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T2#418
[13:04] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T36: Fix full disk encryption on BIOS systems] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) commented on the task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T36#420
[13:06] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T41: Lubuntu 19.10] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) just created this task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T41
[13:10] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T3: Provide complete mimeapps.list] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) commented on the task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T3#431
[13:14] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T36: Fix full disk encryption on BIOS systems] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) commented on the task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T36#433
[14:03] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T2: Fix EFI encryption] apt-ghetto (apt-ghetto) commented on the task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T2#434
[14:17] <wxl[m]> @teward001 I just realized we don't have inbound emails set up on phab. Please fix? https://secure.phabricator.com/book/phabricator/article/configuring_inbound_email/
 wxl[m] already on the list of things to fix.  it's more tricky than just that, I have to set up a postfix relay on the host to properly hand messages to proper backends if we end up having more than one backend that needs email
[14:20] <wxl[m]> K
[14:20] <teward> also need to coordinate with Canonical SA because *all* @lubuntu.me mail flows through seviper.u.c
[14:21] <teward> and i'll have to remember exactly what types of address needs redirected
[14:24] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T3: Provide complete mimeapps.list] wxl (Walter Lapchynski) commented on the task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T3#443
[14:33] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T3: Provide complete mimeapps.list] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) commented on the task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T3#446
[14:42] <apt-ghetto> What's about the minimum requirements set to 1 GB RAM? Will this be dropped for 19.04?
 @apt-ghetto [<apt-ghetto> What's about the minimum requirements set to 1 GB RAM? Will this be …], Fresh installation is not much more than 300mb
[14:48] <apt-ghetto> Yes, but in calamares there is some setting that prevent the installation with =< 1 GiB RAM and 8 GiB disk space
[14:49] <apt-ghetto> At the moment I don't find it
 ^ I think it might actually be 1G free
[15:14] <apt-ghetto> It is hidden in https://phab.lubuntu.me/file/data/735jekuin7miys7tvsr3/PHID-FILE-gbi53fcgldahgy3dx2by/welcome.conf
 Test it before you commit it, but I'm ack on trying lower values
 Whatever you find is best, commit it and make a changelog entry and I'll review/upload.
[15:17] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T3: Provide complete mimeapps.list] The_LoudSpeaker (Raman Sarda) commented on the task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T3#447
[15:33] <apt-ghetto> Ok, I will have a look
[15:34] <apt-ghetto> Will the packaging tutorial be available again?
 @apt-ghetto [<apt-ghetto> Will the packaging tutorial be available again?], Soon, I have an archived copy on my computer I can just send you when I get home for lunch in about an hour
 @HMollerCl might have it too
 And maybe wxl could upload it too, since he has upload access to Lubuntu packages ;)
[15:35] <apt-ghetto> Don't hurry, I am not sure, if I will have time this evening
 Ok :)
 I'm setting a soft deadline for Lubuntu uploads on Thursday. After that, a considerable amount of effort will be required to get stuff in.
 That goes for mimeapps.list and this
 Anything non-RC
 *inserts ufw into the requisite packages to install but not configure during installation time*
 *shot*
 :P
 @teward001 [*inserts ufw into the requisite packages to install but not configure during ins …], Where's your diff for me to review? :P
[15:40] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T43: Add `ufw` to default-installed packages list] teward (Thomas Ward) just created this task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T43
 @tsimonq2 it's actually a task you self-assigned after inquiring with me, walter, and Seth about whether to include `ufw` ;)
 task is there to track now though 😛
 "Assigned to: none"
 Hmmm
 :P
[15:42] <teward> that's fixed
[15:42] <teward> odd creating the task wouldn't let me assign it to you :/
[15:42] <teward> must be a Phab glitch
[15:42] <teward> *kicks workplace internet*
 @tsimonq2 [@HMollerCl might have it too], apt-ghetto: https://github.com/hmollercl/lubuntuPhab/tree/master/Lubuntu-Wiki here tou can find it
[17:00] <wxl> @teward001 NICE avi on phab
 heh
[17:13] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T3: Provide complete mimeapps.list] wxl (Walter Lapchynski) commented on the task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T3#457
 Hey wxl. I am ready with both 18.04 and disco installs for T3 Can you message me in pm? Let's fix this today
[17:17] <wxl> @The_LoudSpeaker i don't think i can pm you because i'm not on telegram but if you're on irc ok XD or we can just do it here. no reason to pm. plus, you have more people to help
 Okay. So what do I do?
[17:20] <wxl> all that needs to be done is to make a change to lubuntu-default-settings so that that mimeapps.list file is at /etc/xdg/xdg-Lubuntu/mimeapps.list
 Okay. I will ping back in a while.
[17:21] <wxl> as you can see we already have one but it's incomplete https://phab.lubuntu.me/source/lubuntu-default-settings/browse/ubuntu%252Fdisco/src/etc/xdg/xdg-Lubuntu/mimeapps.list
[17:22] <wxl> man i love dark mode in phabricator but it's so messed up
[17:24] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T44: add python3-launchpadlib to live seed] wxl (Walter Lapchynski) just created this task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T44
 @wxl [<wxl> man i love dark mode in phabricator but it's so messed up], Oh geez, how did I not see that before now.
[17:25] <wxl> because it sucks sometimes? XD
 Still easier on my eyes though.
[17:26] <wxl> indeed
[17:26] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T43: Add `ufw` to default-installed packages list] wxl (Walter Lapchynski) commented on the task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T43#468
 @wxl [<wxl> man i love dark mode in phabricator but it's so messed up], Dark mode is louuv <3
 wxl I am double checking but it looks like UFW is already installed, I don't think I added it.
 @wxl [<wxl> man i love dark mode in phabricator but it's so messed up], WOAH there's a dark mode?!?
[17:42] <wxl> don't you check your settings? :)
 I will now XD
 @wxl [<wxl> as you can see we already have one but it's incomplete https://phab.lubunt …], But it needs huge development. I can't read anything in this file in dark mode.
 @kc2bez [wxl I am double checking but it looks like UFW is already installed, I don't thi …], I just booted up a daily live and it is there.
[17:54] <wxl> @kc2bez remember what's on live can different from what's on the installed version, so check there, too before calling it good
 ok, will finish up the install and let you know.
 I just installed a fresh disco build
 It's not there
 @kc2bez
 weird, do we remove it somewhere? My install is almost done, just need to reboot.
[18:08] <teward> unless it's included in the lubuntu packages installed (metapackage or such) I don't think it's kept.
[18:08] <teward> but not 100% sure
 Uh, it looks to be there on mine. https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/5sXPJN66Fb/
 Opps! just ran sudo ufw enable and it worked. Mybad.
 gufw is not installed by default
[18:14] <wxl> which it wouldn't be
[18:14] <wxl> in general we'd be avoiding any gtk stuff
 @The_LoudSpeaker [It's not there], When I said this I had looked for gufw.
 @wxl [<wxl> in general we'd be avoiding any gtk stuff], k. Noted
[18:17] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T43: Add `ufw` to default-installed packages list] kc2bez (Dan Simmons) commented on the task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T43#479
[18:18] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T43: Add `ufw` to default-installed packages list] wxl (Walter Lapchynski) commented on the task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T43#481
 @wxl [<wxl> as you can see we already have one but it's incomplete https://phab.lubunt …], Hey wxl, I got a file named defaults.list in /etc/xdg/lubuntu/applications in 18.04 Is it the one I should refer to fill this file?
[19:48] <wxl> @The_LoudSpeaker no. look at the task for the one we need
[19:50] <wxl> oh well. maybe we should look into how to do an unencrypted /boot, @tsimonq2
 @wxl [<wxl> as you can see we already have one but it's incomplete https://phab.lubunt …], I don't understand. As far as I understand, we have to complete this file isn't it?  The file having simillar content and which does the same job in 18.04 is /etc/xdg/lubuntu/applications/defaults.list In my opinion, if we copy the conte
 wxl
[20:16] <wxl> @tsimonq2: why don't you try talking with philmanjaro?
 Maybe.
 I'm not giving up yet though.
[20:18] <wxl> might want to hit it both directions
[20:30] <wxl> @The_LoudSpeaker we currently have this https://phab.lubuntu.me/source/lubuntu-default-settings/browse/ubuntu%252Fdisco/src/etc/xdg/xdg-Lubuntu/mimeapps.list but it needs to be complete like https://phab.lubuntu.me/source/lubuntu-default-settings/browse/ubuntu%252Fbionic/src/etc/xdg/lubuntu/applications/defaults.list but not with those apps because they're old lxde apps
[20:31] <wxl> @The_LoudSpeaker and no we do not want defaults.list -- it doesn't follow the spec https://specifications.freedesktop.org/mime-apps-spec/latest/ar01s02.html and from what i can surmise is some weird gnome thing
 Yup! that's what I am trying to say! I am right now editing the app names in the defaults.list. I will ask if I cannot find name of some app
[20:41] <wxl> @The_LoudSpeaker in case it's not obvious the app names are actually calls to the desktop files in /usr/share/applications
 Thanks! But I already knew that.
[20:42] <wxl> just wanted to be sure!
[20:42] <wxl> they don't ALWAYS follow expectations
[20:45] <wxl> for example discover is not discover.desktop but org.kde.discover.desktop
 @wxl [<wxl> for example discover is not discover.desktop but org.kde.discover.desktop], 'ls -a' in that folder showed me this
 Also, for .deb files default app in 19.04 is ___?
 Also, vlc is provided by default right? @kc2bez ?
[21:05] <wxl> this might be helpful for other things but let me look https://phab.lubuntu.me/w/bugs/
[21:05] <wxl> yes vlc is the one
 @The_LoudSpeaker [Also, for .deb files default app in 19.04 is ___?], ? also which app replaces roller in 19.04 for compressed files?
[21:07] <wxl> ark if i remember correctly.. see the above page.. it has almost everything
 @wxl [<wxl> ark if i remember correctly.. see the above page.. it has almost everythin …], k.
[21:11] <wxl> @The_LoudSpeaker discover opens .debs
 @wxl [<wxl> @The_LoudSpeaker discover opens .debs], thought so. already edited
[21:14] <wxl> @The_LoudSpeaker if you find anything not on that list, let me know and i'll add it
 yeah. sure.
[21:17] <wxl> @The_LoudSpeaker btw all i had to do was `touch foo.deb` and then try to open it with stuff to figure that out X''D
 @wxl [<wxl> @The_LoudSpeaker btw all i had to do was `touch foo.deb` and then try to o …], whaaaaat!! Noice.
 Any idea what was glade-2.desktop in 18.04 for? and it's replacement in 19.04?
 Lite. figured it out. It's not present in 19.04. Am I right wxl?
[21:20] <wxl> is that the gtk ui builder?
 yes
[21:21] <wxl> i'm pretty sure we don't have the qt ui builder installed so yeah nevermind that
 also same question for totem.desktop?
[21:21] <wxl> like i said that defaults.list is most likely a gnome thing that we (well, this was when gilir was the primary developer) tweaked for lubuntu
[21:22] <wxl> vlc
 @wxl [<wxl> vlc], k.
[21:22] <wxl> i thought we had removed that in lieu of mplayer a long time ago, so that's strange
[21:22] <wxl> and then we switched to gnome-mpv
[21:22] <wxl> but again that's a gnome thing
[21:23] <wxl> misc/ultravox might not actually work in vlc
[21:23] <wxl> we might want to leave that out of mimeapps.list
 @wxl [<wxl> we might want to leave that out of mimeapps.list], okay
 last time, same question for apturl.desktop
[21:23] <wxl> correction, it looks like vlc can handle it
 @wxl [<wxl> correction, it looks like vlc can handle it], noted.
 @The_LoudSpeaker [last time, same question for apturl.desktop], ?
[21:25] <wxl> i think nothing, really
[21:25] <wxl> apturl is gtk-specific
 @wxl [<wxl> i think nothing, really], Okay after this I am done for the file. checked every one of 180 lines. How should I save it and package it?
 More Importantly, how do I check if it worked?
 Should I replace it with mimeapps.list in my running build and try 'touch foo.pdf' and open it?
[21:28] <wxl> well you can install it on a virtual machine, reboot and click on some things and see if they open with the right thing
[21:30] <wxl> yeah you could create or download example files (or search the drive for one) and then open it up in the file manager
 I replaced the original mimeapps.list in my running disco installation. Don't have a vm ready now. I downloaded a couple of .deb and .pptx files from cms. Worked!
 pdf also working.
 I hope all's good. wxl. Now how do I push this change up? do I directly edit the mimeapps.list in the cloned git repo of lubuntu-default-settings and use git push?
 please reply fast anyone. i have a test in less than 5 hours at 8 in morning! Quantum mechanics is gonna kill me today ;-;
[21:40] <wxl> i'm working on editing the instructions so go study for a bit :)
 Thanks!
 Bye. Have a nice day!
[21:48] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T3: Provide complete mimeapps.list] The_LoudSpeaker (Raman Sarda) commented on the task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T3#483
[21:49] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T43: Add `ufw` to default-installed packages list] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) commented on the task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T43#484
 Just mention me wxl when you want me to push the file.
[21:50] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T3: Provide complete mimeapps.list] wxl (Walter Lapchynski) commented on the task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T3#485
[21:52] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T36: Fix full disk encryption on BIOS systems] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) commented on the task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T36#486
 @wxl [<wxl> @The_LoudSpeaker discover opens .debs], but we we added qpt-deb-installer for .deb
 better than discovery
[22:13] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T3: Provide complete mimeapps.list] The_LoudSpeaker (Raman Sarda) commented on the task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T3#487
[22:15] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T3: Provide complete mimeapps.list] hmollercl (Hans P. Möller) commented on the task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T3#488
[23:02] <tsimonq2> wxl: Thoughts on bug 1823683?
[23:15] <wxl> @tsimonq2: probably true
[23:39] <lynorian> HmollerCL great a new app for the manual?
[23:41] <wxl> ok that took forever
[23:41] <wxl> here you go @The_LoudSpeaker https://phab.lubuntu.me/w/packaging/packagingtutorial/
 @wxl [<wxl> here you go @The_LoudSpeaker https://phab.lubuntu.me/w/packaging/packaging …], Will look it up.
[23:42] <wxl> there's a fair amount of reading there
[23:42] <wxl> make sure to do it or it won't make sense :)


[06:11] <volvoguy> hey all.
[06:12] <volvoguy> ogra, i don't know how to change the topic in here. can you add that we have irc logs at http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/
[03:07] <kafeine> sweet