[21:10] <Lancelot> hi everyone
[21:10] <shannonlucas> Howdy
[21:16] <Lancelot> how's it going?
[21:17] <shannonlucas> I'm writing some creative fiction
[21:17] <shannonlucas> (translation: project time estimates)
[21:18] <shannonlucas> You?
[21:21] <Lancelot> packing
[21:21] <Lancelot> I also proposed a talk for linuxfest
[21:21] <shannonlucas> The NW LinuxFest or a different one?
[21:21] <Lancelot> NW
[21:22] <shannonlucas> Cool. I'm going to try to make it this year.
[21:25] <shannonlucas> What's your talk on?
[21:25] <Lancelot> embedded hardware development in linux
[21:25] <Lancelot> so programming microcontrollers
[21:25] <shannonlucas> Ooooh
[21:25] <Lancelot> all I have right now are microchip brands stuff
[21:25] <Lancelot> I'm getting some atmel things
[21:26] <Lancelot> and if I can parallax as well
[21:26] <shannonlucas> Beagleboard?
[21:26] <Lancelot> I'm hoping for a 2 hour session so I can demo them
[21:26] <Lancelot> I don't wanna get too fancy
[21:26] <Lancelot> this is supposed to be a basic intro to using simple micros
[21:27] <shannonlucas> RaspberryPI then?
[21:27] <Lancelot> also, the beagleboard doesn't really count...
[21:27] <Lancelot> it's a computer, not a microcontroller
[21:27] <Lancelot> same thing
[21:28] <Lancelot> not a microcontroller >.>
[21:28] <Lancelot> it's a computer
[21:28] <Lancelot> the talk is focusing on microcontrollers
[21:28] <shannonlucas> Oh, you're doing system on a chip
[21:29] <Lancelot> yes
[21:29] <Lancelot> like this stuff: http://www.microchip.com/ParamChartSearch/chart.aspx?branchID=8181&mid=14&lang=en&pageId=75
[21:31] <shannonlucas> So actually running Linux on the SoC, or just using Linux as the dev environment for them?
[21:31] <shannonlucas> Either way, that'd be worth the drive.
[21:32] <Lancelot> using linux as a dev envrionment
[21:32] <Lancelot> microcontrollers don't run operating systems
[21:33] <shannonlucas> What? You can't shoehorn one in? :p
[21:33] <Lancelot> usually
[21:33] <shannonlucas> 8-bit Linux for the win! :p
[21:33] <Lancelot> I don't see that ending well...
[21:33] <shannonlucas> hehehe
[21:33] <Lancelot> micros aren't really meant for that
[21:34] <shannonlucas> When are they going to announce the session selection?
[21:34] <Lancelot> in february I think?
[21:34] <Lancelot> that's when they open up the voting


[16:09] <teward|pc> do LP builders for utopic exist yet?
[16:11] <teward|pc> s/LP builders/PPA builders/
[16:51] <tsimpson> teward|pc: yes, going off the table on the right of https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ppas
[16:52] <teward|pc> tsimpson: didn't know that page existed, thanks.
[17:11] <teward|pc> are the PPA publishers lagged out?  It's been sitting in a built-but-not-published state for about 15 minutes now...
[17:59] <_Groo_> hi/2 all
[17:59] <_Groo_> ppl, im having trouble compiling a big package in a ppa
[17:59] <_Groo_> although its the only package in the newly created ppa, after the compilation i get a failed build with the "not enough space on device" message
[17:59] <_Groo_> is there a workaround for this?
[18:00] <_Groo_> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/173957808/buildlog_ubuntu-trusty-amd64.llvm-toolchain-snapshot_1%3A3.5~svn207246-3~padoka4_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[18:01] <maxb> _Groo_: You're exceeding the available disk space on the builder machine, rather than the space in the PPA
[18:04] <_Groo_> hi maxb,is it possible to extend that disk space? llvm doesnt finish to compile because the amd64 build is aparently too big
[18:04] <_Groo_> and since im compiling the entire graphics stack (mesa, etc etc) i need the new llvm to be able to compile mesa git
[18:04] <_Groo_> so im stuck :P
[18:05] <maxb> I suppose you could talk to someone in Canonical and ask, but it strikes me as unlikely that they'll be able to increase the temporary disk space across the PPA build farm very quickly, if at all
[18:05] <maxb> Your build must be generating an insane amount of temporary files, is all I can think
[18:05] <_Groo_> so this cant be done for just one ppa? its a global limit then?
[18:06] <tsimpson> you could always try asking on https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
[18:06] <_Groo_> yeah its llvm + clang + lldb +polly
[18:06] <_Groo_> its an insane build allright
[18:06] <_Groo_> more of a nightmare
[18:06] <_Groo_> im gonna try spliting the package in half
[18:06] <_Groo_> llvm + clang then lldb + polly
[18:07] <_Groo_> see if it goes through
[18:07] <_Groo_> the ironic part is that the i386 build finishes, its the amd64 that is giving me trouble
[18:07] <maxb> The limit you're running into is the 'physical' size of the virtual disk of the PPA builder VM
[18:08] <maxb> It's entirely possible that those may not all be the same size, so results may vary depending on which builder the build ends up being dispatched to
[18:08] <_Groo_> its a 4 hour compile
[18:09] <_Groo_> i cant just keep asking for a rebuild and hope for the best :D
[18:09] <maxb> wgrant seems like a likely person to tell us more details, if he's around :-)
[18:10] <maxb> Ouch, that's beyond my comprehension. Surely that can sensibly be broken up a bit?
[18:10] <_Groo_> its the llvm stack
[18:10] <maxb> Which would in turn give advantages of not having to rebuild all of it for certain kinds of change
[18:10] <_Groo_> my idea was to make a recipe eventually with a weely build
[18:10] <_Groo_> +mesa + lopen source drivers + libdrm
[18:10] <_Groo_> weekly
[18:11] <_Groo_> llvm needs to be compiled with the right ducks aligned
[18:11] <_Groo_> if you are compiling llvm git you need clang git at least
[18:11] <_Groo_> its most likely the most complex package i ever did
[18:12] <_Groo_> the rules file looks like black voodoo magic
[18:43] <_Groo_> lamont: ping
[19:20] <lfaraone> Can I get https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/debian/sid/pithos/sid changed to an import of https://alioth.debian.org/scm/loggerhead/collab-maint/pithos , or is that not supported?
[19:23] <maxb> lfaraone: That would confuse things, as the UDD importer wants a branch it can write imported uploads to
[19:23] <lfaraone> maxb: ah, okay. hm :/
[19:27] <lfaraone> maxb: can I create a code import with a LP branch of lp:~lfaraone/debian/sid/pithos/foobar or something? https://code.launchpad.net/+code-imports/+new won't let me specify "debian" as a project
[19:28] <maxb> Oh, hmm, right
[19:29] <maxb> I imagine that's just the UI being deficient
[19:31] <maxb> I suspect you'd need to create the import on a project, and then retarget it to the debian/sid/pithos source_package
[19:33] <maxb> I created https://code.launchpad.net/~maxb/pithos/alioth ....
[19:35] <maxb> ... and moved it to https://code.launchpad.net/~maxb/debian/sid/pithos/alioth using the LP API
[19:36] <maxb> That was by entering this in lp-shell: lp.load("/~maxb/pithos/alioth").setTarget(source_package=lp.load("/debian/sid/+source/pithos"))
[19:37] <maxb> lfaraone: I have no way to gift you ownership of the branch, but if you're interested, I'll delete it and you can retrace my footsteps yourself
[19:38] <lfaraone> haha. Can you transfer that to, say, the ~contributor-agreement-canonical team and I can then transfer it to ~lfaraone?
[19:39] <lfaraone> (I was looking for a team that had somewhat restricted membership that we had mutual membership in)
[19:39] <maxb> Now at: https://code.launchpad.net/~contributor-agreement-canonical/debian/sid/pithos/alioth
[19:40] <lfaraone> Ty, now https://code.launchpad.net/~debiandevelopers/debian/sid/pithos/alioth
[19:40] <maxb> Import still hasn't started
[19:41]  * maxb exploits some minor URL hacking to push the invisible "Import ASAP really" button
[19:41] <maxb> And here it goes
[19:42] <maxb> Oh, and it's done already :-)
[19:43] <lfaraone> its a small repo :)
[19:44] <lfaraone> thanks!
[22:22] <comradekingu> why is "romany" listed as a language in Norway, it isnt
[22:39] <cjwatson> I don't know the history here (maybe it's a bug), but https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_and_Swedish_Travellers would appear to disagree
[22:41] <cjwatson> http://www.regjeringen.no/Rpub/STM/20002001/015/PDFA/STM200020010015000DDDPDFA.pdf appears to be a government publication and mentions "romanifolket"
[22:42] <knome> is it an official language? no, most probably not. is it used in norway? most definitely.
[22:42] <comradekingu> cjwatson: their presence is not officially acknowledged. Illegal russian immigrants far outnumber the romanis
[22:43] <cjwatson> That's none of Launchpad's business
[22:43] <comradekingu> Well you should add russian
[22:43] <comradekingu> Finnish, swedish, danish etc etc
[22:44] <comradekingu> I would add the 3 official languages missing, namely the lapmi languages
[22:44] <cjwatson> I'm not even sure where this is shown; I'd expect this to be up to the translator communities though
[22:44] <cjwatson> Ah, https://translations.launchpad.net/+languages/rom
[22:46] <comradekingu> That guy has an account with one translation, and doesnt even know where romanis hail to
[22:47] <wgrant> Does it matter?
[22:47] <comradekingu> Yes it does
[22:47] <wgrant> Most of this data was automatically imported a decade ago.
[22:47] <wgrant> I don't quite know from where.
[22:47] <wgrant> But why does it matter?
[22:47] <cjwatson> I wonder what it's used for in LP today
[22:48] <knome> if somebody with LP admin rights could look at bug 1305585, would appreciate :)
[22:48] <cjwatson> If not much, it might be more geopolitically sensible to just delete that whole class of data altogether
[22:48] <wgrant> knome: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+addquestion
[22:48] <wgrant> Also, you can delete teams yourself.
[22:49] <wgrant> and you'll need to delete that user yourself.
[22:49] <wgrant> But I can do the project if you do the question thing.
[22:49] <knome> right
[22:49] <knome> i'll do that in a minute
[22:49] <comradekingu> If you havent selected it, it suggests to use new-norwegian as a guide, when clicked it produces a list of languages spoken in norway
[22:49] <wgrant> When what is clicked?
[22:50] <knome> wgrant, question 247791
[22:51] <comradekingu> wgrant: the prompt to use other languages as a guide
[22:51] <wgrant> comradekingu: Can you describe exactly how to reproduce the undesirable behaviour that you see as arising from the arguably erroneous link?
[22:51] <knome> wgrant, how can we delete the user if we don't even know the email address used to register it?
[22:51] <wgrant> URLs, unexpected behaviour, expected behaviour.
[22:51] <comradekingu> Since ive already have norwegian bokmål set up, it suggests norwegian nynorsk and others
[22:51] <comradekingu> Of which romani should not be a listing
[22:52] <comradekingu> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rom_people
[22:52] <wgrant> knome: It's a gaweb.com address.
[22:52] <wgrant> Er, gawab.com
[22:52] <knome> wgrant, i have no access to any...
[22:52] <knome> wgrant, is there any process we can get it removed without access to such an email?
[22:53] <comradekingu> Recognised minority language in: czech republic. Nowhere else
[22:53] <cjwatson> It would be very dangerous for LP to start getting into the business of authenticating minority language status
[22:54] <cjwatson> It is of course hardly surprising that an oppressed group does not have recognised minority language status in many places
[22:54] <knome> well otoh, if they seem to be in the system, isn't it dangerous to specifically delete those?
[22:54] <cjwatson> Better not to be part of it at all, and delete *all* language/country associations, IMO
[22:54] <cjwatson> I find it pretty tenuous that Launchpad needs to model that
[22:55] <cjwatson> It's not like people need to have it suggested to them which languages they might be able to translate into
[22:57] <comradekingu> There are 300-400 rom in Norway with norwegian ID papers
[22:57] <wgrant> knome: Not exactly. Is the user causing a problem?
[22:57] <comradekingu> wgrant: the user is innacurately inputting language data
[22:58] <cjwatson> And it leads to nonsense like https://translations.launchpad.net/+languages/en which is probably imported from the glibc SUPPORTED file but is obviously a thoroughly incomplete record of where English is spoken
[22:58] <cjwatson> comradekingu: perhaps you should be aware that there are two parallel conversations going on here
[22:58] <comradekingu> Well well, feel free to ask questions if you want to know something about norwegian culture or history
[22:59] <knome> wgrant, not exactly problems, and the name is misleading; we're also potentially setting up something similar and would not like that to cause confusion
[22:59] <cjwatson> That is, you're replying to wgrant asking a question about a *completely different user* which has nothing to do with your conversation
[23:00] <knome> wgrant, s/and/but/
[23:06] <knome> wgrant, apparently there is no mail service in gawab.com altogether now, but the domain is still parked/owned, so would be nearly impossible to recover that inbox even for the original account creator
[23:07] <wgrant> Indeed, I can't even contact the domain's DNS servers.
[23:07]  * wgrant murders.
[23:08] <wgrant> knome: It's gone.
[23:09] <knome> wgrant, thanks!
[23:11] <infinity> comradekingu: So, as cjwatson says, it might be best for Launchpad to stop mapping languages and countries altogether.  But one is curious how this mapping is negatively impacting you as a human.
[23:12] <comradekingu> infinity: It is giving creedence to a culturual and historical aspect that is totally wrong
[23:13] <infinity> comradekingu: It's doing no such thing.  It's saying that some people in that geographical region speak that language.
[23:13] <infinity> comradekingu: That this (true) statement upsets you is, frankly, your issue.
[23:13] <comradekingu> Romani doesnt have official languagage status because its users are oppressed, its because it isnt an official language
[23:13] <infinity> comradekingu: That isn't a list of official languages.
[23:14] <infinity> comradekingu: The USA has exactly zero official languages (yes, really, though most assume it has at least one), but LP maps dozens to the region.
[23:14] <comradekingu> How is that even comparable?
[23:15] <comradekingu> infinity: Following the logic of romani being spoken in norway, Norwegian should be added to any number of countries
[23:15] <cjwatson> I think that would be fine, although I think it would be better to remove the entire class of data
[23:16] <comradekingu> The romani class, sure. It has 1 translation and a bunch of made up data
[23:17] <cjwatson> I mean the entire language<->country mapping.
[23:17] <cjwatson> I'm not going to victimise a language because you have a problem with it
[23:18] <comradekingu> 0.00007% of Norway speaks romani
[23:18] <knome> comradekingu, ignore it and move on
[23:19] <comradekingu> cjwatson: that is a strawman attack, i dont have any problems with the language, i have a problem with it being represented as one of only a handful languages spoken in Norway
[23:20] <comradekingu> Moreso, if you care about factual representation, the two countries where romani actually is spoken, missing on the list
[23:20] <wgrant> The dataset is incomplete, and the whole country<->language mapping should possibly be removed.
[23:20] <cjwatson> Then you should support removing the entire class of language<->country mapping, since maintaining this set of stuff in LP can never really be accurate and isn't a good idea
[23:20] <wgrant> But unless it's causing a technical problem, the linkage between Romani and Norway will not be removed.
[23:21] <cjwatson> Rather than spending your energy on specifically vilifying Romani
[23:21] <comradekingu> No, its of great use to help suggest language guide-strings
[23:21] <wgrant> "It is giving creedence to a culturual and historical aspect that is totally wrong" is not a useful technical argument.
[23:21] <comradekingu> cjwatson: im not vilifying romani, im asking for factual representation. The whole thing is in error, and you seem oblivious to the fact
[23:22] <comradekingu> wgrant: well it isnt an official language by any means, so it was akin to the matter of why is it there in the first place
[23:22] <cjwatson> I'm saying that this sort of data representation is bound to be wrong, and that focusing on a specific well-known oppressed group makes you look distinctly unpleasant.  Maybe you should pick a different one.
[23:23] <comradekingu> cjwatson: No, thats because you think i have a problem with the language or its users.
[23:24] <comradekingu> What i do have a problem with is inaccurate representation.
[23:25] <cjwatson> Yep, you sure appear to when you use statistics like possession of official papers for a group that naturally tends to avoid local registration
[23:25] <comradekingu> If it makes anyone feel better, add all oppressed languages everywhere, but at least do so on an even basis
[23:25] <comradekingu> cjwatson: that isnt true either
[23:25] <cjwatson> I'd have no problem with doing that but I think it's a waste of effort compared with nuking the table
[23:26] <comradekingu> So nuke the table, there was no valid data in it, speaking of course about the romani listing
[23:26] <cjwatson> Not that table, as I've already said.
[23:26] <cjwatson> (This isn't interesting any more)
[23:27] <comradekingu> Well the whole idea has a lot of merit, for reasons mentioned. Allowing junk data to be representated takes away from that point
[23:28] <comradekingu> I suppose adding Norwegian to places where over 0.00007% of people speak the language is welcomed?
[23:30] <comradekingu> Its not so much the idea of languages spoken in regions that is arbritrary, its this actual representation of it, romani being oppressed has nothing to do with it. I more than welcome having the whole section wiped and the two countries where it makes sense added
[23:32] <comradekingu> cjwatson: I said romani has no cultural or historical significance to Norway worthy of a listing because i thought that was the argument to be made, following rational logic, instead you made it about my person.
[23:34] <cjwatson> Right, when you spend energy having a go at an oppressed minority I think you'll find that will happen a lot.
[23:35] <comradekingu> How am i having a go?
[23:35] <comradekingu> That is something you invented about me in its entirety
[23:35] <cjwatson> *shrug*
[23:36] <cjwatson> It's all logged
[23:36] <cjwatson> I assume readers can make their own judgements
[23:37] <teward> can we all just take time to cool down, or drop this, before this turns into a larger argument...?  I see enough arguing on these kinds of things on other channels, so lets not make a huge deal over this please...
[23:37] <teward> (not that I have any power to ENFORCE that, but the point still stands.)
[23:37] <cjwatson> Like I say, I have no problem adding minority languages, although it's not a data set that's particularly easy to change (I don't think there's a UI or API for it, I believe it's direct SQL manipulation only) and so it doesn't seem worth spending time on
[23:38] <comradekingu> I sure hope applying to consensus is something that warrants actual insight rather than made up arguments
[23:38] <cjwatson> Better to not model something inherently controversial at all
[23:38] <cjwatson> There is data there for other language/country combinations that would be controversial and isn't really obviously fixable except by removing the modelling entirely
[23:40] <comradekingu> What exactly is controversial about it if the one suggesting it, me, points to factual evidence, delete it and remake it, possibly send the noncontributing user a message to relist it, or do so on his account
[23:40] <comradekingu> Discriminating the treatment of language because one deems the issue of its speakers to be controversial is at best counter-productive
[23:41] <wgrant> This whole argument is at best counter-productive. We will not be making this change. The discussion is over.
[23:41] <comradekingu> Well, nobody is going to do anything about it, that i respect, its your dataset, just dont blame me for reporting the issue
[23:41] <cjwatson> There are examples in the dataset today where either including or excluding a specific mapping would offend different sets of people (if they noticed, which fortunately they don't usually)
[23:42] <comradekingu> My example isnt one of those. Not doing anything because of it is bound to offend moreso than it fixes
[23:43] <comradekingu> As someone said, lp shouldnt make decisions on what languages are spoken where. Go with the wikipedia data like everyone else.
[23:44] <comradekingu> If all it takes is making one translation to list a language in totally arbritrary locations and not include it where it should be, then lp is effectivly doing what it tries not to. Offend users based on the opinion of small uninformed minorities.
[23:44] <cjwatson> The user listed on +languages/rom almost certainly did not list those countries.
[23:44] <cjwatson> I doubt they would have been able to.
[23:45] <comradekingu> I reported a listing that was in error, if that offends anyone then thats their problem
[23:45] <wgrant> Right, it is your problem, I agree.
[23:46] <cjwatson> I wonder if the data was imported from Ethnologue
[23:47] <cjwatson> Hm, no, don't think so
[23:47] <comradekingu> wgrant: im not offended, nor intending to offend. Nor do i think its controversial. That issue wasnt raised by me. I only speak for myself, i dont answer to what is made up about me
[23:51] <comradekingu> wgrant: btw, the data wasnt imported 10 years ago, because the name rom/any isnt that old.


[01:49] <rlameiro> ScottL: ping
[01:52] <rlameiro> holstein: how is your voice?
[01:53] <rlameiro> up for a dubbing session?
[01:54] <holstein> rlameiro: OH speaking
[01:54] <holstein> hmmm
[01:54] <holstein> Ricardus has a great radio voice
[01:54] <holstein> if you can talk him into it
[01:54] <holstein> im not saying no
[01:54] <rlameiro> well, i just recorded a video of the ubuntustudio install process
[01:54] <rlameiro> maybe you could do the audio part?
[01:55] <holstein> im just saying, i dont think im the best candidate
[01:55] <rlameiro> my english is not that perceptible....
[01:55] <holstein> rlameiro: i'll try it
[01:55] <holstein> you got a script?
[01:55] <rlameiro> nope
[01:55] <holstein> i mean, you can use it or not
[01:55] <rlameiro> :D
[01:55] <rlameiro> its al yours
[01:55] <holstein> hmmm
[01:55] <holstein> wheres the vid?
[01:55] <holstein> you want to email me?
[01:55] <holstein> mikeh789 at the gmail
[01:56] <rlameiro> holstein: its encodign from recordmydesktop
[01:56] <rlameiro> 9%
[01:56] <rlameiro> i need to edit it a bit
[01:56] <holstein> OH
[01:56] <holstein> let me know
[01:56] <holstein> i'll give it a go :)
[01:56] <rlameiro> take out the long boring parts :D
[01:56] <rlameiro> you know Xjadeo?
[01:57] <holstein> nah
[01:58] <rlameiro> holstein: its a video player, just video no audio, and it is conrolled via jack transport :D
[01:59] <rlameiro> so you can be recording it realtime on ardour. you pause in ardour, and the video pauses :D
[01:59] <holstein> i'll figure it out :)
[03:23] <ronj> hello abogani and everybody, I'm prepping my test machine for some kernel tests (generic and lowlatency/realtime from abogani's ppa --thanks!--) but linux-headers-lowlatency is not installable because it depends on linux-headers-<IP_ADDRESS>-lowlatency, which depends linux-headers-<IP_ADDRESS>, which seems to no longer be in the repos. Is this known / expected? Any alternative way to install this lowlatency kernel?
[03:25] <ronj> uh, correction: linux-headers-lowlatency seems to install even though the dependency isn't satisfied oÔ; but I doubt my lowlatency will work without the headers, will it?
[03:47] <persia> Should work fine: you just won't be able to compile kernel modules, so stuff like nvidia or fgrlx drivers won't work.
[03:49] <ronj> persia, should be ok indeed, I'm using an intel chip. thanks!
[05:10] <paultag> persia, roger
[05:12] <persia> paultag, In the very short term, chasing the status of highly-visible bugs would also help: holstein or rlameiro usually have a good handle on what is causing the most pain (from testing and user-support activities).  ScottL can probably give specific direction if you need, but he's already largely focused on strategy for the next release, expecting the rest of us to make sure this one is in great shape.
[05:13] <paultag> persia, OK, awesome. Well, I'll play the bar-back, I'll just try and find stuff to blast away thats just a pita and not a nested bug or anything like that
[05:13] <persia> Excellent
[05:17] <paultag> persia, is there a LP project that has all the ubuntu-studio bugs filed against ( as well as against Ubuntu ) ?
[05:17] <paultag> wait, found it
[05:17] <paultag> sorry :)
[05:18] <holstein> hey paultag :)
[05:18] <paultag> hey there holstein, how are you?
[05:18] <holstein> let me know if i can help at all with the bug-work
[05:18] <holstein> im good
[05:18] <paultag> holstein, for sure, I'll be sure to take you up on that
[05:18] <holstein> i joined the bug squad
[05:18] <holstein> but i got busy
[05:19] <holstein> and it ended up being a bit too much to take on
[05:19] <paultag> it happens :)
[05:19] <paultag> holstein, aye, you should avoid burnout at all costs :)
[05:19] <holstein> but i could tackle a few things with you if needed
[05:20] <paultag> holstein, for sure, thank you for the offer
[05:21] <persia> paultag, 95% of bugs are going to just be normal Ubuntu bugs.
[05:21] <paultag> persia, aye, well I'm on bug control / bug squad, so no harm no foul.
[05:22] <paultag> persia, is there a tag for "not our problem" ?
[05:22] <persia> What would fall into that category?  Do you have an example?
[05:23] <paultag> persia, well by definition a bug against ubuntu studio would also be a bug against ubuntu -- if it's not something that falls into ubuntu studio ( read: normal Ubuntu work ), is there a tag we can apply ( yes, it's valid in studio, but the Ubuntu community should look at this as well )
[05:24] <persia> We're *part* of the Ubuntu community :)
[05:24] <paultag> persia, well duh! :) -- but something that gets filed against Ubuntu Studio that has to do with something like binutils
[05:24] <persia> That said, I think we're primarily interested in bugs on packages that end up in our primary tasks.
[05:25] <persia> A cleanup of the UbuntuStudio project would be good: every bug there should have an Ubuntu task, if it's valid.
[05:25] <paultag> yes it's "valid", but it's really not something we should spend time on, that sort of thing
[05:25] <paultag> persia, OK, cool. I'll start with that
[05:26] <paultag> I'll start doing some work when it's not 12:30 AM :)
[05:26] <persia> Might even be safe to make the UbuntuStudio tasks "Invalid" with a comment saying "this affects all of Ubuntu, and is better tracked there" or similar.
[05:26] <persia> heh.
[05:26] <paultag> persia, yeah, I was thinking a tag, just because it's it's "valid"
[05:26] <paultag> persia, but you're right, it kinda seems silly to track it twice
[05:27] <persia> My concern is that I doubt anyone will go hunt for bugs closed in Ubuntu and still open in UbuntuStudio, and close them.  None of the other final statuses are correct.
[05:27] <paultag> persia, good point
[05:27] <persia> So, semantically, one can say "It's not a valid bug for UbuntuStudio, but it *is* valid for Ubuntu" by creating the Ubuntu task, and marking the ubuntustudio one invalid.
[05:27] <paultag> persia, OK, that sounds sensible to me
[05:28] <persia> If you come up with good comment text to inform the users, that may make it even smoother.  If you do that, I recommending adding the comment *before* adding the Ubuntu task, just to avoid sending lots of duplicate notices to e.g. the binutils developers.
[05:29] <paultag> persia, I'll be sure to come up with something sane and template it on the wiki for us :)
[05:30] <paultag> Righto, well I'm off. Got some work in six hours or so
[05:31] <paultag> persia, nice talking with you again, thanks :)
[05:31] <paultag> holstein, you too, we'll talk soon :)
[05:31] <paultag> night, all
[05:31] <holstein> GN
[12:50] <persia> rlameiro, Good day.  RC images are starting to get posted: dunno if ours are up yet, but ... :)
[12:50] <rlameiro> persia: did you look at the mailing list?
[12:51] <rlameiro> major fails on the iso building, says collin watson bot
[12:52] <astraljava> Uhh... damn, just as I got bandwidth for downloading. :D
[12:53] <rlameiro> well, you can use jidgo to download the iso, when is fixed just update :D
[12:55] <astraljava> I prefer to use zsync.
[12:57] <persia> rlameiro, I'm glad to hear you're on top of it: you probably know more than I.  I just saw you join IRC, and wanted to pass on stuff I saw in traffic whilst you were disconnected.
[12:58] <rlameiro> persia: I recorded a video yesterday, for the install. I will edit it today evening and send it to holstein for voice dubbing
[12:59] <rlameiro> try to make an "official" how to install Ubuntu studio
[12:59] <rlameiro> so people ca see how it works
[12:59] <persia> I'm looking forward to seeing that.  "How to install Ubuntu Studio: video produced on Ubuntu Studio"
[12:59] <rlameiro> it should be ready before the launch, I hope
[12:59] <persia> Cool!
[13:04] <abogani> really cool
[13:05] <rlameiro> I think we coudl do a series of little videos on different ways to configure jack
[13:05] <rlameiro> one for firewire devices
[13:05] <rlameiro> one for alsa, usb etc
[13:05] <rlameiro> and do some explanation of the latency and settings
[13:06] <rlameiro> so, everytime someone comes with questions on how to configure it, we forward him/her to the video
[13:09] <ScottL> rlameiro, that is an awesome idea!
[13:09] <rlameiro> thanks
[13:09] <rlameiro> well, need to go to works
[13:09] <rlameiro> cya later
[13:21] <astraljava> So wait, cdimage.u.c shows the list of files, but they're not accessible?
[13:21] <astraljava> Morning Scott!
[13:23] <astraljava> Meh, PEBKAC.
[13:26] <astraljava> Nice! 100.0% 1187.8 kBps DONE
[14:57] <scott-work> abogani: i read your email about the -lowlatency and -rt kernels
[14:57] <scott-work> abogani: i want to apologize because i did not realize that you had wanted testing done at this time
[14:57] <scott-work> abogani: i will certainly start testing them this week
[14:59] <abogani> scott-work: No you don't understand me. I want that someone else offers for the task and for this I'm doing some "fear" for see replies...
[15:00] <abogani> scott-work: We can't do the work if the tasks are always done by same two o three persons.
[15:02] <scott-work> abogani: ooohhhh, i see :)
[15:16] <astraljava> abogani: How many hours do you normally spend on a given kernel release, when you were preparing the -rt flavor?
[15:19] <abogani> astraljava: On wonderful Hardy release I spend 1/2 hours a day.
[15:20] <abogani> Since that I spend most of the time on burecrotic works.
[15:20] <abogani> scott-work: Could you read my last email and say me if it is understable?
[15:20] <astraljava> abogani: Half an hour, every day?
[15:21] <abogani> astraljava: No 1 or 2 hours every day. But since Hardy things are more easy probably 1/2 every three days should be enough.
[15:22] <astraljava> abogani: Okay. I'm trying to come up with an estimate of how long it would take me. Might be too much :-/
[15:22] <abogani> Test, Upload rights and alignment with the -generic one are the most critical issues.
[15:22] <abogani> astraljava: If aren't forced to do all the jobs.
[15:22] <abogani> astraljava: You can do be a part of it.
[15:22] <persia> Upload rights are the hard part, because only kernel folk tend to be happy sponsoring kernels, and there's only ~4 kernel folk who *can* upload.
[15:23] <persia> Might be best to have abogani continue to be the focal point for the uploads, sharing the coorindation, testing, patch hunting, etc. with others, just because the process is painful.
[15:23] <abogani> astraljava: Test for example is only made on new release arise.
[15:24] <abogani> persia: I really don't know if it is the right thing for the Studio project.
[15:26] <abogani> persia: As you know well I'm a lot unreliable  lately...
[15:26] <abogani> :-(
[15:41] <astraljava> abogani: Sure, I can participate in the process, and learn by doing.
[16:05] <astraljava> abogani: For the most part, at least in the beginning, I'd need you to organize, though. There's so much to learn, I'd work better if I were given "orders". :)
[22:45] <scott-work> ugh, we have RC ISO image ready to test but tonnes of applications apparently failed to build installable binaries this morning :(
[22:45] <holstein> :/
[22:46] <holstein> whens the deadline or whatever?
[22:46] <holstein> for testing?
[22:46]  * holstein will do the 64bit ones again
[22:46] <holstein> i just dont want to be doing it last minute like last time if possible
[22:50] <scott-work> holstein: i believe the thought is we have approximately two days to validate the ISO image before it is released
[22:53] <scott-work> or not released if we don't test it :P
[23:15] <ronj> is it normal to have to sudo /etc/init.d/networking restart in order to have my network, even after a clean restart ?
[23:17] <ronj> s/normal/expected/g: I mean is this known, or due to some misconfiguration?


[07:19] <Kangarooo> what is swap name? swapfile? grep swap /etc/fstab
[07:19] <Kangarooo> /dev/mapper/vgkubuntu-swap_1 none            swap    sw
[07:20] <Kangarooo> in on kubutnu 22.04.3
[07:20] <Kangarooo> ups wrong channel


[05:30] <pitti> Laney: yup, glib is now in; I'm still looking at the hanging udisks2, I can't reproduce that locally
[06:20] <pitti> ah, now I can actually, with the latest kernel/image
[06:24] <larsu> good morning!
[06:24] <pitti> hey larsu!
[06:25] <larsu> pitti: happy Monday! Wie geht's?
[06:25] <pitti> larsu: gut, danke! wir hatten ein schoenes WE in Dresden. und dir?
[06:28] <larsu> pitti: schön! Mir auch. Viel Familie dieses WE
[06:28] <larsu> und kaaaaaaalt
[06:34] <ochosi> larsu: in .at ists auch nicht viel besser (temperaturmäßig), falls dich das tröstet ;)
[06:35] <larsu> ochosi: ein bisschen :)
[07:02] <didrocks> good morning
[07:03] <pitti> bonjour didrocks, c,a va ?
[07:03] <pitti> oops -- where is my compose key??
[07:03] <larsu> lut didrocks!
[07:03] <didrocks> pitti: ça va bien, et toi ?
[07:03] <didrocks> hey larsu :)
[07:04] <pitti> didrocks: je vais bien aussi, merci ! nous avons eu un bon week-end a` Dresden
[07:04] <didrocks> pitti: pas trop court ?
[07:04] <pitti> didrocks: toujours :)
[07:04] <didrocks> héhé ;)
[07:05] <pitti> didrocks: mais pendant les vacances Noe:l nous allons avoir beaucoup de temps
[07:05] <didrocks> certes !
[07:06] <didrocks> nous, on a joué à des jeux de société vendredi soir dans une ONG
[07:06] <didrocks> nous sommes allés à un concert de musique classique samedi soir
[07:06] <didrocks> et j'ai terminé mass effect 3 hier :)
[07:07] <pitti> :-P c'est grand ! -- qu'est-ce que c'est "ONG" ?
[07:07] <didrocks> pitti: NPO
[07:07] <pitti> TLAs!
[07:07] <pitti> non-profit organization ?
[07:07] <didrocks> right ;)
[07:08] <didrocks> like a local group of people, you need to be a member to play in the local
[07:15] <didrocks> pitti: should I ping back on my systemd patch on upstream ML?
[07:15] <didrocks> maybe CCing Lennart
[07:15] <pitti> didrocks: perhaps try on IRC around noon/afternoon first?
[07:16] <didrocks> pitti: ok, will do then
[07:16] <pitti> didrocks: but sure, CC'ing him might help too, I don't know
[07:16] <didrocks> will try IRC first
[08:53] <willcooke> morning all
[08:57] <larsu> morning willcooke!
[08:57] <darkxst> hey larsu
[08:57] <larsu> hi darkxst
[08:57] <darkxst> any progress on gtk?
[08:58] <didrocks> hey willcooke
[08:58] <darkxst> hey didrocks
[08:58] <larsu> darkxst: progress for getting it in?
[08:58] <seb128> good morning desktopers
[08:59] <darkxst> larsu, well yes of course ;)
[08:59] <darkxst> hi seb128
[08:59] <larsu> darkxst: the theme should be good enough for a first upload, but there are a few other minor issues with 3.14
[09:00] <larsu> so ya, progress, but not done yet
[09:00] <seb128> the icons one is a bit annoying
[09:00] <larsu> next on my list :)
[09:01] <darkxst> seb128,  yes there are new icons
[09:01] <seb128> I don't speak about new or old icons
[09:01] <darkxst> what do you speak of then?
[09:01] <seb128> but thinks like indicators having wrongly scaled icons
[09:01] <seb128> or gvim in nautilus' context menu
[09:03] <didrocks> evening darkxst ;)
[09:06] <darkxst> seb128, perhaps a theme issue, I'
[09:06] <darkxst> I've not seen anything like that
[09:07] <seb128> no, not a theme issue, Debian has the same issue
[09:07] <ricotz> hello to all of you
[09:07] <seb128> with updated themes and using the upstream one
[09:07] <seb128> hey ricotz
[09:07] <ricotz> is there a plan/decision about splitting adwaita-icons-theme like it is done with gnome-icons-theme?
[09:08] <darkxst> hey ricotz
[09:08] <ricotz> seb128, hi, did darkxst mentioned this to you?
[09:08] <seb128> ricotz, he probably mentioned it before, no plan/decision that I know about
[09:08] <darkxst> I mentioned it a while back, never got an answer though
[09:08] <seb128> I guess whoever is interested in that new package needs to do the work
[09:08] <seb128> or I don't see an incensitive from changing from g-i-t as we have it atm
[09:09] <darkxst> seb128, we would be happy to keep the new package synced from debian
[09:09] <darkxst> but there are new icons needed for 3.14 that would need to be copied into g-i-t
[09:09] <seb128> well, as long as it's not installed and nothing in Unity depends on it
[09:09] <ricotz> seb128, did the ubuntu icon theme gained the needed bits?
[09:09] <seb128> no
[09:10] <seb128> what needed bits?
[09:10] <seb128> did anyone made a list/open a bug?
[09:10] <ricotz> like e.g. the arrows for combo-boxes
[09:10] <seb128> no idea what you are talking about
[09:10] <darkxst> ubuntu icon theme falls-back to gnome for like a 100icons
[09:11] <seb128> yeah, that's not going to change
[09:11] <ricotz> darkxst, keeping it in sync would be nice of course
[09:11] <darkxst> seb128,  have you not noticed missing icons in testing 3.14?
[09:11] <ricotz> i see, so it seems reasonable to switch depending on adwaita-icon-theme for 3.14
[09:11] <seb128> darkxst, no, but I didn't test much
[09:12] <seb128> ricotz, we are not switching anything to a-i-t until it gets the same split as g-i-t if that's the one supperseeding g-i-t
[09:13] <ricotz> seb128, this is what i am asking, and gnome3 ppa contains a splitted packages
[09:13] <ricotz> and yeah a-i-t is the replacement for g-i-t
[09:13] <seb128> do you have a sponsoring request with the changes?
[09:14] <ricotz> no, since as you said there is plan to pursue this while weirdly no problems occur with g-i-t and gtk 3.14 regarding missing icons
[09:15] <seb128> ?
[09:15] <seb128> no, I said I've no clue what issues you are talking about
[09:15] <ricotz> i mean "no plan"
[09:15] <seb128> but that if there is nothing buggy there is no need to change
[09:15] <seb128> if the gtk update is buggy we need to update the icon theme of course
[09:15] <ricotz> yeah, this is weird since things like arrows should not show up
[09:15] <seb128> and we need to do it in a way that doesn't regress what we have
[09:16] <seb128> what arrows?
[09:16] <ricotz> larsu, hi, did you not run into such issues ^
[09:17] <ricotz> seb128, the e.g. tiny "down-arrow" on combo-boxes!
[09:17] <darkxst> seb128, the list arrows in things like dconf editror
[09:18] <ricotz> anyhow, i need to go, bbl
[09:18] <larsu> ricotz: what issues? Arrows in list views having the wrong icons? (yes)
[09:19] <ricotz> larsu, if they are wrong or missing it is related to the icon-theme
[09:19] <larsu> ricotz: not sure what the issue is. Probably missing, yes
[09:21] <darkxst> larsu,  there are a number of icons definately missing from g-i-t!
[09:21] <larsu> I know. Not sure what your point is...
[09:21] <ricotz> https://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/commit/?h=gtk-3-14&id=9a127d364f9413f3e7c431c09ff4495f0ac88137
[09:22] <ricotz> "pan-down-symbolic"
[09:31] <Sweet5hark> moin
[09:31]  * Sweet5hark .oO( life isnt fair )
[09:32] <darkxst> larsu, the point is either need to split a-i-t or copy the missing icons across to g-i-t
[09:38] <Laney> I copied a couple of icons from a-i-d to <mumble> (humanity?) a while ago
[09:38] <Laney> -t
[09:39] <Laney> pan-something ones
[09:40] <seb128> hey Laney
[09:40] <Laney> hi ;-)
[09:40] <Laney> just sneaking through, nothing to see here
[09:42] <Laney> how's it going?
[09:42] <mlankhorst> morning
[09:43] <darkxst> Laney, I'm all for the copying thing, I would prefer to keep a-i-t in sync with debian
[09:43] <seb128> Laney, good, you? had a good w.e?
[09:46] <Laney> darkxst: alternatively we could not care about the size (~10mb) :-)
[09:46] <Laney> seb128: yeah was good, put all of our things in a van and drove them somewhere else and then removed them all
[09:47] <seb128> Laney, I don't want to go that path (stop carring about adding 10mb packages to the iso)
[09:48] <seb128> Laney, oh, right, moving ... you are not working this week?
[09:48] <seb128> what are you doing here?
[09:48] <darkxst> seb128, stop complaing, upstream was just a rename, you wouldnt add anything to the iso
[09:48] <seb128> darkxst, ?
[09:48] <seb128> darkxst, I'm not complaining
[09:49]  * larsu waves to Laney
[09:49] <seb128> darkxst, I'm just saying that we are not going to add another 10mb to the iso
[09:50] <darkxst> seb128, and we need to know if you want to split a-i-t or stick with g-i-t
[09:51] <seb128> darkxst, I don't care either way, either we copy the missing icons over or we split a-i-t and transition to that
[09:51] <seb128> up to who does the work I guess
[09:51] <seb128> it probably makes more sense to split a-i-t
[09:52] <willcooke> mlankhorst, hey!  I'm going to try and get your Xmir work running today. I might be bothering you with questions :)
[09:52] <darkxst> seb128, except g-i-t contains a (manual?) list of missing icons
[09:53] <seb128> darkxst, can't we transition that list to a-i-t?
[09:54] <mlankhorst> willcooke: ok :P
[09:56] <darkxst> seb128, sure, but you still need to work out the missing icons either way
[09:56] <willcooke> mlankhorst, first question - how do I find out what version of Mir I'm running?  I'm using the desktop next image
[09:57] <mlankhorst> apt-cache policy libmirserver.*; look for the installed one
[09:59] <willcooke> ok, I'm on 0.8, so that's job #1
[09:59] <mlankhorst> the archive has the correct versions
[10:00]  * willcooke upgrades
[10:00] <willcooke> mlankhorst, and then I use your PPA from LP?  https://launchpad.net/~mlankhorst/+archive/ubuntu/ppa
[10:00] <mlankhorst> yeah
[10:00] <willcooke> cool, thanks mlankhorst
[10:00] <mlankhorst> install mir-demos after updating
[10:00] <willcooke> kk
[10:02] <mlankhorst> after that and installing xserver-xorg-xmir from the ppa switch to vt1 with ctrl alt f1, log in and: sudo stop lightdm; sudo mir_demo_server_shell & sudo Xmir & .. wait a few seconds then run COMPIZ_CONFIG_PROFILE=ubuntu compiz
[10:04] <willcooke> \o/
[10:04] <willcooke> mlankhorst, is compiz being used here as a benchmark, as a way of poking all the bits of XMir/Mir to find gaps?
[10:05] <mlankhorst> sort of, but in reality it should just spawn a full ubuntu desktop
[10:05] <willcooke> erk:
[10:05] <willcooke> dpkg: cycle found while processing triggers:
[10:05] <willcooke>  chain of packages whose triggers are or may be responsible:
[10:05] <willcooke>   ureadahead -> ureadahead
[10:05] <willcooke>  packages' pending triggers which are or may be unresolvable:
[10:05] <willcooke>   dbus: /etc/dbus-1/system.d
[10:05] <willcooke>   ureadahead: /etc/init.d: /etc/init
[10:05] <willcooke> dpkg: error processing package dbus (--configure):
[10:06] <willcooke>  triggers looping, abandoned
[10:06] <willcooke> dpkg: ../../src/packages.c:226: process_queue: Assertion `dependtry <= 4' failed.
[10:06] <willcooke> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg exited unexpectedly
[10:06] <mlankhorst> remove ureadahead I guess ?
[10:06] <willcooke> meh - fixed
[10:06] <willcooke> did dpkg --configure -a
[10:06] <mlankhorst> ok
[10:07] <Laney> what were you doing?
[10:07] <willcooke> Laney, apt-get upgrade on my desktop next machine
[10:07] <Laney> vivid to vivid?
[10:07] <willcooke> yeah
[10:07] <Laney> what version of ureadahead?
[10:07] <Laney> apt-cache policy ureadahead
[10:07] <Laney> seb128: (splitting is probably reasonable I guess)
[10:08] <willcooke> ureadahead:
[10:08] <willcooke>   Installed: 0.100.0-16
[10:08] <willcooke>   Candidate: 0.100.0-17
[10:08] <willcooke>   Version table:
[10:08] <willcooke>      0.100.0-17 0
[10:08] <willcooke>         500 http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ vivid/main amd64 Packages
[10:08] <willcooke>  *** 0.100.0-16 0
[10:08] <willcooke>         100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
[10:08] <Laney> yeah I thought so
[10:08] <Laney> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ureadahead/0.100.0-17 ;-)
[10:08] <willcooke> :)
[10:09] <Laney> although we may need to SRU that too, I think
[10:09] <mlankhorst> won't that break everyone who has ureadahead installed? :p
[10:09] <Laney> why?
[10:09] <mlankhorst> if they upgrade
[10:10] <Laney> why?
[10:10] <mlankhorst> ironically to fix that bug :P
[10:10] <mlankhorst> dno
[10:10] <willcooke> if they have the "broken" version installed, then in order to install the fixed version, dpkg will bail out first
[10:10] <willcooke> ?
[10:11] <willcooke> (after doing a --configure -a and re-runnng upgrade it's all ok)
[10:12] <Laney> It doesn't happen on every upgrade
[10:12] <Laney> I think we should SRU it though because there's a decent chance release upgrade paths will invoke the old trigger
[10:12] <mlankhorst> ok
[10:13] <Laney> maybe someone could look at that this week (/me nominates the bug)
[10:13] <Laney> otherwise I'll look at it next
[10:13] <Laney> speaking of which, got to go buy a coffee table, laters
[10:14] <Laney> seb128: I think splitting and migrating to a-i-t is probably the way to go btw
[10:14] <Laney> sorry darkxst if we can't keep it in sync, you know it pains me too :'(
[10:14] <seb128> Laney, +1
[10:14] <Laney> bye!
[10:14] <willcooke> cya Laney
[10:14] <seb128> Laney, have fun, see you later
[10:18] <darkxst> Laney, for the sake of a few icons, and a list that still needs to be maintained? seems just as easy to copy them over
[11:13] <didrocks> seb128: if you run nautilus <dir> from the terminal, do you have it appearing behind it?
[12:45] <seb128> didrocks, yes
[12:50] <willcooke> balls.  Run out of space on my machine
[12:53] <willcooke> popey, did you buy a new SDD for your Thinkpad?
[12:54] <popey> not recently
[12:54] <popey> creative have one on offer right now
[12:54]  * willcooke googles
[12:54] <popey> http://uk.crucial.com/gbr/en/store-ssd-factory-recertified?cm_mmc=affiliation-_-null-_-null-_-null
[12:54] <willcooke> thanks popey
[12:54] <popey> i have two in mine
[12:55] <willcooke> blimes - thats cheap
[12:55] <popey> if you want lots of space you could put an mSATA SSA in (I have a 240GB one of those in) and some spinning rust
[12:55] <popey> then you get the best of both worlds
[12:55] <willcooke> I think 240GB will be enough for now (I hope)
[12:55] <popey> yeah, i have 2x240 in mine
[12:55] <popey> still run low
[12:55] <popey> <- hoarder
[12:56] <willcooke> is one of those an mSATA?
[12:56] <willcooke> yes
[12:56] <popey> yes
[12:56] <willcooke> you just said it was, :/
[12:56] <willcooke> sorz
[12:58] <willcooke> hm - it says that disk isnt compatible with my X220
[12:59]  * willcooke remembers something about 7mm drives not fitting
[13:00] <willcooke> no, 7mm drives should fit fine
[13:08] <didrocks> willcooke: those are the ones which fits: http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-830-Series-MZ-7PC256N-Internal/dp/B005T3GPXY
[13:08] <willcooke> 500 USD ?!?!?!?!?!?
[13:09] <didrocks> willcooke: I just picked the one I bought 2 years ago (but it was way cheaper at the time :p)
[13:09] <didrocks> willcooke: at least, you can have the correct size now
[13:09] <willcooke> :)
[13:09] <willcooke> thx didrocks
[13:09] <didrocks> yw
[13:10] <didrocks> I remember having spent some times as well on the size to ensure it's fitting the x220 :)
[13:11]  * didrocks goes for a run
[13:49] <pitti> didrocks: hah, j'ai vu la premie`re episode de Doctor Who :)
[13:49] <pitti> ou -- le docteur qui :)
[13:53] <Trevinho> ricotz: hi, why mir support in xorg edgers mesa is disabled? It doesn't look to fail here (patch and compilation)...
[13:54] <ricotz> Trevinho, hi, historical reason to avoind maintaining this patch
[13:54] <Trevinho> ricotz: isn't it quite stable now?
[13:55] <ricotz> Trevinho, not sure, i am not very fond about mir
[13:56] <ricotz> will try to enable it again next time
[13:56] <Trevinho> thanks
[14:21] <desrt> Laney: you (temporarily?) assigned a bug to me... was that a mistake?
[14:24] <larsu> desrt: morning :)
[14:24] <desrt> good morning
[14:25] <larsu> remember your PrimaryConnectionType thing? Looks like it's not being used
[14:26] <desrt> ya.  someone closed my bug on the dash as 'opinion'
[14:26] <didrocks> pitti: oh? from the new series I guess, did you like it?
[14:27] <desrt> as in, it's only my opinion that doing 400 dbus calls and a bunch of signal subscriptsions to bring up an entire network manager tree worth of devices and monitor it in order to determine a single boolean value is overkill
[14:27] <pitti> didrocks: yes, and yes I did :)
[14:27] <larsu> desrt: bug #1386109 ?
[14:27] <didrocks> pitti: sweet! You will see, it's getting better and better (especially after the 6th episod)
[14:27] <larsu> desrt: there's a new thing called com.ubuntu.connectivity1...
[14:27] <desrt> fwiw, i think the property added to NM is wrong
[14:27] <larsu> supplied by indicator-network
[14:27] <desrt> i don't know if the connectivity thing is right
[14:28] <desrt> but they're not using that either :(
[14:28] <larsu> and according to that bug, it always tells apps its online
[14:28] <larsu> desrt: why?
[14:28] <desrt> they're treating the issue as strictly a qt bug
[14:28] <desrt> ie: fix the race/deadlock in qt and the problem is 'solved'
[14:28] <desrt> fine by me.... *shrug*
[14:29] <desrt> fwiw, though, i think my patch in NM is bogus
[14:29] <desrt> i should maybe discuss that with dcbw
[14:29] <larsu> why?
[14:29] <desrt> i found out something really neat the other day: android sends a field in its dhcp reply to people who tether: ANDROID_METERED
[14:29] <larsu> if you fix the deadlock in qt, you still have the dash talking to nm directly
[14:29] <larsu> rendering all of indicator-network pointless
[14:30] <desrt> ie: treating a "802-11-wireless" or whatever device type as being "not on 3g" is a bad heuristic
[14:30] <desrt> since we have more information -- we're just not using it
[14:31] <larsu> desrt: that is _seriously_ nice. `apt-get update` ran in the background and used my monthly data allowence the other day
[14:31] <desrt> i'm gonna file the upstream NM bug now, in fact
[14:31]  * desrt noticed that field in debugging output of NM the other day while hacking bluetooth stuff
[14:31] <larsu> what kind of property do you propose?
[14:31] <larsu> ConnectedToSomethingFast?
[14:32] <desrt> IsMetered?
[14:32] <larsu> not every 3g connection is metered...
[14:32] <desrt> well that's android's problem
[14:32] <desrt> i don't know why my phone sends ANDROID_METERED
[14:33] <larsu> but ya, that's a much better heuristic than is-wifi?
[14:33] <desrt> maybe there is a switch somewhere to control that
[14:33] <desrt> since i have an unlimited plan...
[14:33] <larsu> it's definitely very cool
[14:33] <desrt> (although, strictly speaking it is metered.... they slow me down after 10GB of usage)
[14:33] <desrt> so probably i still prefer that it doesn't do updates...
[14:33] <larsu> desrt: there's a setting for warning you once you cross some treshold
[14:33] <larsu> *threshold
[14:40] <desrt> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=740982
[14:40] <desrt> i heard some crackrock about building a list of known wifi mac addresses of phones in order to deal with this problem
[14:40] <desrt> this is clearly going to be a better approach....
[14:40] <larsu> wouldn't that be kind of a big list.......
[15:08] <cyphermox> seb128: hey
[15:09] <desrt> cyphermox: remember that primaryconnectiontype property?  starting to have second thoughts there....
[15:09] <desrt> and apparently nobody in ubuntu will use it anyway...
[15:10] <desrt> i just filed #740982 upstream -- let's see how that goes.... but maybe it's worth dropping that patch in ubuntu
[15:10] <seb128> cyphermox, hey
[15:12] <cyphermox> seb128: can I subscribe desktop team (or desktop-bugs?) to the new build-depends from NM?  it's libteam, libndp, and jansson for their MIRs
[15:13] <seb128> cyphermox, desktop-bugs yes
[15:13] <cyphermox> seb128: ack
[15:13] <seb128> that's the team we use for packages bugs
[15:14] <cyphermox> oops
[15:14] <cyphermox> seems I don't have that kind of access
[15:15] <seb128> cyphermox, done it for you
[15:15] <cyphermox> seb128: thanks
[15:16] <seb128> yw
[16:32] <seb128> dpm, pitti, hey, vivid translations are open/active, who can/should enable the langpack cron job?
[16:35] <dpm> seb128, I generally ping wgrant to enable the exports, and then pitti sets up the langpacks
[16:36] <seb128> dpm, let me ping wgrant then ;-)
[16:37] <seb128> dpm, or do you know where to check if those are already enabled?
[16:44] <didrocks> seb128: do you know what is used nowdays for mime types association, I don't see mimeapps.list anymore
[16:45] <seb128> didrocks, you mean?
[16:45] <didrocks> seb128: IIRC in the past (but didn't check since 2010), mime types association were defined in a mimeapps.list file
[16:46] <didrocks> (which was compiled from the available apps)
[16:46] <seb128> didrocks, /usr/share/applications/defaults;list
[16:46] <seb128> .list
[16:46] <seb128> if you mean our default list
[16:46] <seb128> or do you mean user ones?
[16:46] <didrocks> oh right, that one
[16:46] <didrocks> thanks seb128 :)
[16:46] <seb128> yw
[16:47] <seb128> didrocks, user config is ~/.local/share/applications/mimeapps.list though
[16:47] <seb128> those are changes over the defaults
[16:47] <didrocks> seb128: yeah, hence the confusion :)
[16:47] <seb128> with added/removed sections
[16:48] <seb128> dpm, I guess it's on https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/vivid/+language-packs ?
[16:51] <dpm> seb128, sorry, I was otp. Yeah. Generally I keep the schedule here and I file an RT to get the exports going: https://dev.launchpad.net/Translations/LanguagePackSchedule
[16:52] <seb128> dpm, thanks, I pinged wgrant on #ubuntu-devel, I can file a rt if you want/that's preferred though
[16:53] <dpm> seb128, if pinging works, that works well for me
[16:53] <seb128> let's see what he replies
[16:54] <dpm> I guess we cannot drop any released off the schedule, so we should probably do the exports on the Friday
[16:55] <dpm> or actually on the Tuesday and move the utopic ones around
[17:40] <pitti> dpm: making a note, I'll build them tomorrow
[18:08] <dpm> pitti, yeah, let's sync up to see if we can get the exports on the schedule first
[18:20]  * willcooke_ -> EOD.
[18:20] <willcooke_> o/
[19:32] <Laney> desrt: I assigned that to the canonical-desktop-team, you probably got mailed through that
[19:32] <desrt> ahh
[19:32] <desrt> launchpad writes bad email :)
[20:37] <popey> seb128: would you say bug 1298297 is assigned to the right place?
[20:37] <popey> or is it in fact unity as ali1234 suggests?
[20:37] <ali1234> it's both really
[20:38] <ali1234> i mean they both want to lock the screen
[20:38] <ali1234> you;re presumably disabling the unity lock screen but the lightdm one is still there, and you no longer have a control panel for it
[20:38] <ali1234> we had this exact same problem in xubuntu with lightdm + light-locker
[21:06] <seb128> popey, ali1234, is that still an issue? it's likely unity-settings-daemon and a bug like that was fixed on friday
[21:06] <ali1234> no idea, i use xubuntu...
[21:08] <seb128> well, by default logind/systemd suspend on lid close
[21:08] <seb128> then it's up to something to set an inhibitor
[21:08] <seb128> in unity/gnome it's unity/gnome-settings-daemon
[21:08] <seb128> not sure in xubuntu
[21:09] <seb128> then the locking is up to e.g unity/gnome-screensaver
[21:09] <ali1234> yes in xubuntu we had to add a patch to inhibit logind
[21:09] <larsu> add a patch to what?
[21:09] <ali1234> to light-locker
[21:10] <ali1234> bug 1303736
[21:10] <ali1234> actually i think it was patched in xfce4-power-manager
[21:12] <ochosi> yup, it was xfpm
[21:14] <popey> seb128: fixed already? yay!
[21:18] <seb128> popey, well, feel free to test/confirm if the fix works
[21:28] <larsu> seb128: any known bugs about mouse input events not being sent to apps?
[21:28]  * larsu is just seeing that...
[21:29] <larsu> anything in the shell works (launcher, dash, panel), but not in the windows itself. window management doesn't work either
[22:04] <seb128> larsu, not that I know no
[23:25] <WhiteIntel> Hello can anyone tel mel a remote desktop solution that is working out of the box with user session handling, good performance, easy to install?
[23:43] <RAOF> WhiteIntel: AFAIK, ‘Desktop Sharing Preferences’ is installed by default, works, and is reasonable.
[23:43] <RAOF> WhiteIntel: Together with ‘Remote desktop viewer’ (aka vinagre)