[00:01] <elisiano> I see
[00:25] <mhb> good evening.
[00:28] <CheGuevara> evening
[00:34] <CheGuevara> Accepted: linux 2.6.24-2.3 (source)
[00:52] <iRon> trying to build kdebase-3.5.8 from hardy src, and got an error "*** No rule to make target `decryptdialog.ui' in kioslave/media/mounthelper"
[00:53] <iRon> and there is no such file at all in kdebase-3.5.8 src archive..
[00:56] <cheguevara> hmm so then how did it build? :P
[00:56] <cheguevara> iRon, which version exactly is it
[00:57] <cheguevara> decryptdialog.ui is not in standard kde
[00:57] <cheguevara> its the encrypted drivers addition from novell
[00:57] <iRon> cheguevara: 3.5.8-2ubuntu4
[00:59] <cheguevara>  hardy i386   Successfully built  (DONE)
[01:02] <iRon> i'm looking at kdebase_3.5.8-2ubuntu4.diff.gz,
[01:03] <cheguevara> yeah that should include the crypt drive changes
[01:03] <iRon> yes
[01:04] <iRon> and it only contains changes for Makefile's.. but doesn't contains decryptdialog.ui ..
[01:04] <iRon> i need to get it from somewhere else?
[01:05] <cheguevara> kubuntu_9912_enable_crypto.diff
[01:05] <cheguevara> is that the one?
[01:07] <cheguevara> you can probably get it somewhere from suse, but ping Riddell tomorrow about it
[01:08] <iRon> cheguevara: thanks, i will :)
[01:11] <nixternal> vorian: are you having issues with kdebase at all tonight?
[01:11] <vorian> yes
[01:11] <nixternal> kwin3_oxygen?
[01:11] <vorian> nixternal, aye
[01:11] <nixternal> ok
[01:11]  * nixternal checks my svn checkout
[01:11] <vorian> svn was not pulling an external svn
[01:12] <nixternal> is that what it is
[01:12] <nixternal> did you figure it out/get it fixed?
[01:13] <nixternal> ahh
[01:13] <nixternal> dude, it Just got it with an svn up
[01:13] <cheguevara> arrgh first COPYING file missing, now 2 .c files missing headers
[01:14] <cheguevara> damn ppl :P
[01:14] <nixternal> hey, I am a moron!!!
[01:15] <nixternal> I mucked up the .orig.tar.gz somehow and had the archive spit back soprano calling me an idiot :)
[01:15] <cheguevara> lol
[01:15] <vorian> nixternal, did you just svn up?
[01:15] <nixternal> vorian: ya
[01:15] <vorian> kewl
[01:15]  * vorian retries
[01:16] <cheguevara> nixternal, is hardy main still broken?
[01:16] <nixternal> no, it is working
[01:17] <cheguevara> oh nice
[01:17] <nixternal> it was a choke on apt
[01:17] <nixternal> not even 5 minutes after I cried about it, it started working again :)
[01:17] <cheguevara> lol
[01:17] <cheguevara> time to go try out pbuilder then
[01:18] <vorian> w00t oxygen
[01:18] <cheguevara> adept needs bumping though
[01:18] <cheguevara> no dist-upgrade for now :P
[01:19] <nixternal> I feel like I am in my slackware days here running ubuntu server and installing kde4 on it :)
[01:19] <cheguevara> :P
[01:23] <blizzzek> bye
[01:25] <nixternal> damn, now a strigi error
[01:25] <vorian> how far into the build?
[01:26] <nixternal> 18%
[01:26] <nixternal> there is a new strigi as well
[01:26] <vorian> crap
[01:26]  * nixternal goes and creates and updated package
[01:26] <cheguevara> lol
[01:26] <vorian> i'm 14%
[01:26] <nixternal> derr, you are on hardy, I am on gutsy
[01:26] <vorian> i'm 15%
[01:26] <nixternal> call me stupid, kthxbye :)
[01:26] <vorian> lol
[01:26] <nixternal> you are fine on hardy
[01:27] <vorian> good
[01:27] <vorian> :)
[01:27] <cheguevara> wtf do u need 2 authors in an 8 line C file
[01:27] <nixternal> hahahaha
[01:27] <nixternal> one guy to talk, one guy to type
[01:27] <cheguevara> lol
[01:27] <vorian> hehe
[01:28] <cheguevara> honestly this is so crap, 2 authors and 3 years so all of the files have all the different copyright combinations possible between those
[01:29] <nixternal> bah, it is in the gutsy backports already :)
[01:29] <vorian> lol
[01:30] <vorian> 20%
[01:30] <vorian> :)
[01:31] <nixternal> and now we are back and running :)
[01:31] <vorian> its a race
[01:31] <nixternal> ya it is...I keep forgetting I am using that old stable junk :)
[01:31] <vorian> is yours amd64?
[01:31] <nixternal> ya
[01:32] <vorian> hmm /me thinks you will win then
[01:32] <nixternal> I want to run KDE 4 on a better system than my laptop
[01:32] <cheguevara> nixternal, what laptop you got
[01:32] <nixternal> although, my laptop runs it pretty damn good with composite enabled
[01:32] <nixternal> compaq c304nr (the greatest free software laptop in the world)
[01:33] <nixternal> celeron m 1.6ghz, 1.5gb ram, intel all the way through :)
[01:33] <cheguevara> upgraded the ram yourself?  I thought KDE was based on QT?
[01:55] <nosrednaekim> hey Tm_T
[01:55] <nosrednaekim> wolfger: the theme :D
[01:56] <nosrednaekim> wolfger: oxygen looks way better than platique (default QT theme)
[01:56] <vorian> :(
[01:57] <wolfger> In tutorial today, we used Qt Designer... is that the same tool for doing a KDE4 app, or is there a separate tool better used for that?
[01:57] <vorian> never mind, found it
[01:58] <nosrednaekim> wolfger: same tool
[02:03] <cheguevara> http://pastebin.ca/raw/815450
[02:04] <cheguevara> is this looking ok so far or am i doing too much work
[02:04] <cheguevara> ignore the / lines
[02:04] <nosrednaekim> cheguevara: learned packagin in a day? XD
[02:04] <cheguevara> got inspired enough to try it :P
[02:05] <cheguevara> any comments?
[02:06] <nosrednaekim> nah, I don't know w athing about it :D
[02:06] <cheguevara> lol
[02:07] <cheguevara> nixternal, could u take a quick look please
[03:02] <litdream> hi.
[03:04] <cheguevara> hi
[03:04] <DaSkreech> hey
[03:04] <cheguevara> whats up
[03:04] <litdream> Is it possible to see the kubuntu-tutorial conversation?
[03:05] <red_team316> yes i want to too
[03:05] <DaSkreech> litdream: Yes!
[03:05] <litdream> I wanted to attend, but it conflicts with my work.
[03:05] <DaSkreech> You program .NET?
[03:06] <litdream> DaSkreech: I used to write some earlier version of C#, not any more.
[03:06] <claydoh> w00t
[03:06] <red_team316> C/C++/learning python
[03:07]  * claydoh hits the tutorial logs, should be some good reading
[03:07] <cheguevara> logs are at https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuTutorialsDay
[03:07] <red_team316> awesome
[03:15] <vorian> man, my fonts are all messed up now :(
[03:15] <nixternal> gutsy + kde4 == nightmare
[03:15] <hads> Yes
[03:15] <nixternal> dist-upgrade to hardy and then retry
[03:15] <vorian> nixternal, did yours finish?
[03:15] <nixternal> kept dying at 18%
[03:15] <vorian> that sucks
[03:15] <nosrednaekim> nixternal: yeah.... its looking to be a pain... especcially since I have to do download scripts.
[03:15] <nixternal> dropping that gutsy garbage and goin' with the hardy
[03:15] <hads> I was contemplating going to hardy on my laptop actually.
[03:16] <nixternal> I use hardy on my laptop
[03:16] <nixternal> just be careful when you do daily updates and you will typically be fne
[03:16] <nixternal> fine
[03:16] <hads> I usually wait until about 3 months then dist-upgrade
[03:16] <vorian> yes, like the xorg-xserver that just came down :)
[03:17] <nixternal> did that mess stuff up?
[03:17] <vorian> no
[03:17] <cheguevara> oh yeah new git snapshot of xserver
[03:17] <vorian> I always keep an ear out for crying
[03:17] <nixternal> I haven't upgraded in a few days because for some reason, oo.o hasn't been rebuilt against the new libopenexr
[03:18] <nixternal> oh ya, I just seen that in ubuntu-devel
[03:19]  * nosrednaekim contemplates doing hardy
[03:19] <cheguevara> linux 2.6.24-2.3 built on i386 and amd64
[03:19] <cheguevara> too bad we dont' have modules yet...
[03:19] <nixternal> ya
[03:19] <nixternal> actually, I don't need the modules I don't think..I haven't had any problems yet
[03:19] <cheguevara> got intel wifi, need the ucode
[03:20] <cheguevara> though might as well just dl it myself
[03:20] <nixternal> I have broadcrap
[03:20] <cheguevara> heh
[03:20]  * nosrednaekim hugs his atheros
[03:20] <nixternal> and the kernel drivers for broadcom cards suck so bad..they make ndiswrapper look like a god send
[03:20] <cheguevara> lol
[03:20] <cheguevara> even in .24 ?
[03:20] <nixternal> but, if you blacklist bcm now with the new kernel, you won't have wireless even with ndiswrapper
[03:20] <nixternal> ya, the latest kernel for hardy
[03:21] <Tm_T> nixternal: also watching our newest hero?
[03:21] <nixternal> you will get a ton of dmesg errors about wifi and all that junk
[03:21] <nixternal> newest hero?
[03:21] <Tm_T> nixternal: in ops :-P
[03:21] <vorian> Crash0rz!
[03:22] <vorian> evil Tm_T
[03:22]  * vorian hides
[03:22] <Tm_T> how I'm evil?
[03:23] <vorian> evil genius
[03:24] <vorian> that's what i meant :)
[03:24] <ardchoille> I am currently reading the Kubuntu Tutorials Day logs wrt bug triage. I'd like to do some triaging. What do I need to be able to do that?
[03:25] <nixternal> hahahahahaha
[03:26] <nixternal> ardchoille: a keyboard, a mouse, a grasp of at least 4 english words :)
[03:26] <ardchoille> nixternal: I think I can muster those :)
[03:26] <nosrednaekim> "PEBK"
[03:26] <nosrednaekim> only one work needed ^^
[03:26] <nosrednaekim> *word
[03:26] <nixternal> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/BugSquad
[03:26] <nixternal> that should have some decent info there
[03:27] <ardchoille> ty
[03:27] <vorian> hug day date needs `updating`
[03:28] <nixternal> dist-upgrade complete
[03:28] <nixternal> lets try this again
[03:28] <cheguevara> is it ok to use "plugins/scanfolder/*.cpp" in copyright
[03:28] <cheguevara> or is that being lazy :P
[03:28] <nixternal> being lazy, and something I have done in the past
[03:28] <nixternal> cheguevara: are all of the files gpl?
[03:29] <cheguevara> yeah
[03:29] <nixternal> are all of the people in the copyrights listed in the COPYING file?
[03:29] <cheguevara> sec
[03:30] <nixternal> I was lookin' at your ktorrent copyright file and it looks...ummm..insane :)
[03:30] <cheguevara> i am gonna cry if i am analysing each single .c and .h file for nothing
[03:30] <nixternal> what does the current ktorrent copyright look like?
[03:30] <nixternal> cheguevara: you should still analyze...however I don't go balistic on the copyright like that...some people do though
[03:30] <cheguevara> http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/extragear/network/ktorrent/COPYING?revision=748233&view=markup
[03:30] <nixternal> if it is GPL, I let it be known, and if all of the authors are in the COPYING file, I add them to the copyright file and call it a day
[03:31] <cheguevara> its just a usually gpl template, not even modified...
[03:31] <cheguevara> nixternal, do u wanna see what i have for copyright so far?
[03:32] <nixternal> I seen it in motu chan
[03:32] <cheguevara> oh kk
[03:32] <nixternal> ya, insane :)
[03:32] <cheguevara> just wanna get it done now lol
[03:32] <vorian> shmat!
[03:32] <cheguevara> nixternal, but do u think i am doing extra work or is it fine?
[03:32] <nixternal> cheguevara: according to the current ktorren copyright file in kubuntu, you are actually making it look similar
[03:33] <cheguevara> yeah apachelogger told me to :P
[03:33] <nixternal> ya, go figure..he is a copyright nut :)
[03:33] <cheguevara> lol
[03:33] <cheguevara> so what about wildcards then
[03:33] <nixternal> but I am guessing that jdong did teh original ktorrent packaging
[03:33] <cheguevara> if all files in a folder got exactly same header
[03:34] <nixternal> I don't think wildcards are the way to go
[03:34] <cheguevara> kk
[03:34] <cheguevara> its not that many files anyway :P
[03:34] <nixternal> ls >> copyright :)
[03:34] <vorian> hmm
[03:35] <nixternal> ahh, libstreamanalyzer-dev == 0.5.6-0ubuntu1
[03:35] <nixternal> I found the damn culprit I think
[03:35]  * nixternal chokes the dog
[03:36] <vorian> poor dog
[03:36] <vorian> hmm
[03:37] <vorian> extragear/plasma
[03:38] <cheguevara> nixternal, and thats excluding the fact that 4 files so far have the copyright header completely missing :P
[03:38] <nixternal> oh I love those
[03:38] <cheguevara> lol
[03:38] <nixternal> vorian: I would recommend you install it
[03:39] <vorian> yeah
[03:39] <cheguevara> emailed upstream
[03:39] <vorian> i did, then noticed they were absent from the rc2 list
[03:42] <cheguevara> statsplugin.cc
[03:42] <cheguevara> jesus
[03:42] <cheguevara> who uses .cc
[03:43] <nixternal> that is either some old code, or someone used netbeans to write that
[03:43] <cheguevara> Copyright © 2007 by Krzysztof Kundzicz
[03:43] <cheguevara> not really old :P
[03:43] <nixternal> that is odd
[04:02] <cheguevara> ... and done
[04:02] <cheguevara> copyright file 308 lines...
[04:06] <nixternal> Absolutely. Either GNOME catches up or Kubuntu 8.10 will become mainstream Ubuntu.
[04:06] <nixternal> that rocks!
[04:06] <nixternal> I am actually reading /. while compiling kde4..I am such a loser :p
[04:10] <nixternal> Not a massively market researched project that everyone accepts but nobody really loves, but something genuinely stylish. Make KDE 4 the Alfa Romeo to Gnome's Camaro. Dammit, where are the Italians when you need them?!
[04:10] <nixternal> hahahahah, there are some pretty funny comments on the kde4 less memory post on /.
[04:11] <vorian> lol
[04:11] <vorian> it's building fast now
[04:12] <vorian> i'm to kdebindings
[04:15] <DaSkreech> nixternal: Pfft ./ says that kubuntu will replace ubuntu in a year?
[04:15] <nixternal> don't know why it hasn't yet
[04:16] <nixternal> :)
[04:16] <nixternal> imagine Kubuntu 8.10 rocking KDE 4.1
[04:16] <nixternal> and Ubuntu 8.10 rocking Gnome 2.old
[04:16] <DaSkreech> well 2.new
[04:16] <DaSkreech> by definition
[04:16] <nixternal> whatevah
[04:16] <nixternal> nothing has changed
[04:17] <DaSkreech> Sure
[04:17] <DaSkreech> it has less options
[04:17] <DaSkreech>  and has webkit :)
[04:17] <cheguevara> lol
[04:17] <cheguevara> is less options even still possible?
[04:17] <vorian> lol
[04:18] <DaSkreech> cheguevara: yes there is
[04:18] <DaSkreech> apt-get install gnome will  conflict iwth your keyboard and remove it
[04:18] <nixternal> DaSkreech: and KDE 4 will have it for 4.1, and webkit is in our repos if you would like to play with it and konqi :)
[04:21] <DaSkreech> man I want KDE 4.3
[04:21] <nixternal> interesting..Gnome 2.x and KDE 3.x came out about the same exact time
[04:21] <DaSkreech> nixternal: doesn't make a difference :)
[04:22] <cheguevara> doesn't gnome have redhat sponsord devs
[04:22] <nixternal> sure it does...KDE is making changes, and Gnome isn't
[04:22] <cheguevara> are they that useless :P
[04:22] <nixternal> and KDE has Mandrake, Novell/openSUSE, Kubuntu, and more sponsored devs :)
[04:22] <cheguevara> true
[04:22] <DaSkreech> desktop environments seem to bump versions with the toolkits
[04:22] <DaSkreech>  and gtk doesn't seem in any mood to jump to a 3.0
[04:23] <cheguevara> not in our life time at least :P
[04:23] <nixternal> haha, so true
[04:23] <DaSkreech> cheguevara: don't plan on living long?
[04:23] <cheguevara> the best die young
[04:23] <cheguevara> ;)
[04:24] <nixternal> nice one
[04:24] <DaSkreech> not as told by those still alive :)
[04:24] <DaSkreech> I'm making a note here
[04:24] <cheguevara> lol
[04:25] <nixternal> the US sucks!   The pointy-clicky Vista lover has arrived!  He's rumoured to be giving out free money, too!
[04:32]  * DaSkreech whistles :)
[04:38]  * cheguevara tries to find a pic of Hobbsee
[04:38] <DaSkreech> I have one
[04:39] <cheguevara> lets see
[04:40] <DaSkreech> http://tinyurl.com/nz4tm
[04:41]  * dthacker dances the I finally finished the fscking tutorial!!! dance
[04:42] <DaSkreech> dthacker: sudo fsck /dev/device
[04:42] <DaSkreech> can I join you? :)
[04:42] <cheguevara> DaSkreech, sexy
[04:42] <DaSkreech> cheguevara: yep :)
[04:43] <DaSkreech> I think she gave me another one but I don't recall where that one is
[04:43] <dthacker> Ok, now that I have built one package (today's tutorial) where should I go for real work?
[04:44] <DaSkreech> package Heros of alcrost
[04:44] <cheguevara> dthacker, join me in packaging kde 4 extragear packages :P
[04:46] <dthacker> cheguevara: yeah, you have me a link, but my ff was borked at the time.  Where are they
[04:46] <cheguevara> sec, i lost it myself lol
[04:46] <dthacker> and what libs do I need to install
[04:47] <cheguevara> dthacker, do u have kde4 installed?
[04:47] <cheguevara> ftp://ftp.mirrorservice.org/sites/ftp.kde.org/pub/kde/unstable/3.97/src/extragear
[04:48] <dthacker> cheguevara: nope
[04:48] <cheguevara> hmm actually u don't really have to
[04:48] <cheguevara> can run kde 4 apps on kde 3
[04:50] <dthacker> cheguevara: how many of these are you building a day?
[04:50] <cheguevara> well since i only learnt basics of packaging today
[04:50] <cheguevara> :P
[04:51] <cheguevara> just finished with ktorrent
[04:51] <dthacker> you give me hope!
[04:51] <cheguevara> and actually using it
[04:51] <cheguevara> no idea how good my package is though
[04:51] <cheguevara> gonna bug someone to review it tomorow
[04:52] <dthacker> I think I'll start with kphotoalbum
[04:53] <cheguevara> plasma-extra is in hardy repos
[04:53] <cheguevara> and since thats from extragear its a good example
[04:53] <cheguevara> i used it
[04:54] <cheguevara> jesus
[04:54] <cheguevara> its 5 am
[04:55] <cheguevara> i think sleep might be in order
[04:56] <dthacker> yeah,  I think so!   grab some!
[04:57] <cheguevara> heh good night
[05:30] <nixternal> argh, libxine1 is a mess
[05:33] <DaSkreech> libxine4.0
[06:51] <ubiq> Hi
[06:51] <ubiq> Can anyone help me with packaging?
[06:51] <ubiq> I've been following the guide at https://wiki.kubuntu.org/PackagingGuide/Basic
[06:52] <ubiq> but I keep getting an error :(
[06:55] <nixternal> ubiq: can you pastebin your error?
[06:55] <nixternal> !pastebin
[06:55] <ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
[06:57] <ubiq> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/48174/
[06:57] <ubiq> I get that error after running "sudo pbuilder build ../*.dsc"
[06:59] <nixternal> is there a debian/tmp/usr/share/man? from the looks of it, it isn't there
[07:00] <ubiq> no, but i was under the impression the debian/rules file built that
[07:01] <nixternal> ubiq: ya, it does...I forgot you probably didn't run debuild -nc. so that is why you wouldn't see it
[07:01] <nixternal> did you make changes to the hello app? if not I can grab the source and take a look at it
[07:01] <ubiq> Just changed it to my email and name in the debian/* files
[07:02] <nixternal> k
[07:06] <nixternal> ubiq: that is odd...I just built it w/o any problems
[07:06] <nixternal> did you make any changes to debian/rules?
[07:06] <ubiq> I did at first, but after getting the error I cut and copied it fresh from the wiki
[07:09] <nixternal> ubiq: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/48175/
[07:09] <nixternal> ya, that is an old rules file with some stuff that has been removed and/or added
[07:09] <nixternal> the one I just pasted is the current and correct one
[07:09] <ubiq> ok, I will try it. Thanks.
[07:11] <ubiq> Still getting the same error with that debian/rules. :(
[07:12] <nixternal> hrmm
[07:12] <nixternal> did you rebuild the .dsc file?
[07:12] <nixternal> debuild -S -sa
[07:12] <nixternal> or whatever you are using
[07:14] <ubiq> no
[07:15] <nixternal> ya, you need to debuild it before you can pbuild it so it gets the changes
[07:16] <ubiq> ok, thank you so much for your help!
[07:17] <nixternal> no problem ubiq...welcome to just one of the "gotchas" yet to come with packaging :)
[07:17] <nixternal> patience will pay in the end big time...plus you will eventually get addicted and we won't be able to shake you off of a package :)
[07:17] <ubiq> :)
[08:12] <INFOEXCLUDED> has it started yet ?
[08:45] <sebastian^> good morning folks
[08:49] <INFOEXCLUDED> how are you ?
[08:49] <INFOEXCLUDED> PEEP
[09:07] <sebastian^> hmm
[09:07] <sebastian^> fine thanks, and you :)?
[09:13] <txwikinger2> Morning folks
[09:14] <ardchoille> hi txwikinger2
[09:15] <txwikinger2> Hi ardchoille
[09:16] <mhb> rise and shine!
[09:26] <sebastian^> boring day :-(
[09:30] <apache|mobile> indeed
[09:30]  * apache|mobile got a well heated class room though ;-)
[09:30] <apache|mobile> it's like 30 °C in here
[10:08] <apache|mobile> cheguevara: no ktorrent-kde4 in revu yet?
[11:31] <txwikinger2> Should I create a specification for bug 156177 ?
[11:31] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 156177 in ubiquity "offer to create a separate /home partition" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/156177
[11:34] <DarkMageZ> hi guys. i've put together a amarok 2 source package (based on prior kubuntu dev work) that successfully builds and even runs reasonably well on hardy. if anyone wants to hack on it or bring it into the hardy repository then feel free :P http://mirror.randumb.org/darkmagez/amarok2/
[11:34] <Riddell> txwikinger2: that has been discussed, the plan is to make it able to reinstall over an existing /home without touching it
[11:34] <Riddell> DarkMageZ: goodness
[11:35] <Riddell> apachelogger__: got any comment on that?
[11:35] <txwikinger2> Riddell: Just found it
[11:35] <txwikinger2> I make it wishlist and put th elink to the spec to it
[11:36] <DarkMageZ> Riddell, if i'm not mistaken. it's based off your work :P
[11:36] <iRon> Riddell: I've got a problem compiling kdebase-3.5.8-2ubuntu4
[11:37] <Riddell> iRon: what's that?
[11:37] <iRon> it fails on making kioslave/media/mounthelper..
[11:37] <iRon> because decryptdialog.ui not exists
[11:38] <iRon> kdebase_3.5.8-2ubuntu4.diff.gz doesn't included it
[11:38] <iRon> it only contains diffs for Makefiles
[11:38] <Riddell> iRon: it's in debian/patches/kubuntu_9913_kiomedialuks.diff
[11:39] <Riddell> iRon: are you compiling this as a debian package or with ./configure;make?
[11:39] <iRon> configure;make
[11:39] <Riddell> iRon: try `fakeroot make -f debian/rules apply-patches`
[11:40] <iRon> i was thought that patches were applyed automaticaly after apt-get finished downloading..
[11:41] <Riddell> no, not usually
[11:42] <iRon> not everything looks fine.. thanks Riddell!
[11:42] <iRon> *now
[11:42] <Riddell> yay
[11:43] <ardchoille> Riddell: I wanted to say a few words about Kubuntu Tutorials Day
[11:43] <ardchoille> I had to miss it but thankfully I had irssi logging.
[11:44] <ardchoille> Very informative and instructional sessions, I learned quite a bit.
[11:44] <Riddell> ardchoille: glad it was useful
[11:44] <ardchoille> I"m hoping that these types of things will happen more often in the future.
[11:48] <Riddell> ardchoille: what sessions were most useful?
[11:48] <ardchoille> Bog triaging
[11:48] <ardchoille> Bug
[11:49] <Riddell> ah, bog triaging, reminds me of my Duke of Edinburgh Awards hikes :)
[11:49] <ardchoille> hehe
[11:49] <Riddell> hug txwikinger2 for that one
[11:49] <ardchoille> txwikinger2: Oustanding job, kudos
[11:50] <ardchoille> It prompted me to go in and update my own bug reports.. but I plan to do some triage too
[11:50] <Riddell> yay
[11:51] <iRon> What "yay" means? I'm new to irc ;-)
[11:52] <iRon> is it some acronym ?
[11:55] <Riddell> iRon: short form of "hooray"
[11:55] <iRon> i see :)
[11:56] <Riddell> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=define%3Ahooray
[11:58] <iRon> Riddell: to link kdebase from hardy, i need kdelibs from hardy to ? because now compilating failed on konsole..
[11:59] <iRon> because jpatrick yesterday told me to download only kdebase from hardy..
[11:59] <Riddell> iRon: hmm, it shouldn't do but it's possible it does
[12:03] <dthacker> Riddell: thanks again for the help yeseterday.  I got the tutorial package built last night (UTC -6) after I generated a proper key.
[12:03] <Riddell> dthacker: excellent
[12:20] <iRon> Riddell: have patched to compile konsole, now it failes on konqueror/keditbookmarks.. i'll better download kdelibs sources too.. :)
[12:20] <Riddell> iRon: good luck
[12:21] <Riddell> you can run debuild (from devscripts) to have it compile in the debian packaging way
[12:21] <iRon> i'll try.. but with kdelibs.
[12:39] <Revorm-> is there any way to control network-manager via solid in kde4?
[12:39] <sigma_kubuntu> why can speedcrunch not be displayed with the arial font?
[12:40] <Riddell> Revorm-: -> #kde4-devel  sigma_kubuntu: -> #kubuntu
[12:41] <Revorm-> Riddell: thanks
[12:48] <apachelogger__> Riddell: well, I vote against an Amarok2 package until upstream (which would be me again :P) releases an alpha
[12:48] <apachelogger__> Amarok2 is currently anything but useable
[12:48] <cheguevara> morning
[12:49] <Riddell> but but, want blingness!
[12:49] <ardchoille> :)
[12:49] <cheguevara> lol
[12:49] <Hobbsee> mmm....bling
[12:50] <apachelogger__> good point :P
[12:50] <cheguevara> apachelogger__, last i tried yesterday my packages still disappeared from revu incoming into /dev/null :P
[12:51] <apachelogger__> but the blingness isn't as awesome if the app crashes regulary and got only 30% of it's features
[12:51] <apachelogger__> ...talking about basic implimentations ;-) ...
[12:51] <ardchoille> But.. but.. it crashes with more style!
[12:51] <apachelogger__> cheguevara: talk to siretart in #ubuntu-motu
[12:51] <apachelogger__> ardchoille: nah, does not :P
[12:52] <cheguevara> i'll try again first then i will
[12:52] <apachelogger__> first thing: it freezes most systems with gdb
[12:52] <apachelogger__> second thing: usually you can nuke your configs and database after a crash ;-)
[12:53] <DarkMageZ> apachelogger__, have you tried a recent svn checkout?
[12:53]  * apachelogger__ notes that release managers tend to run recent svn/cvs/git of almost everything envolved with the app :P
[12:54] <cheguevara> lol
[12:54] <DarkMageZ> sure it could kill your database & amarok configs but that's why it's called pre-alpha :P
[12:55] <DarkMageZ> then you just rebuild your config & database
[12:55] <apachelogger__> DarkMageZ: now, why would we ship a pre-alpha?
[12:55] <apachelogger__> why should Amarok release any version at all... distros could just get the whatever is recent and tag it accordingly
[12:55] <DarkMageZ> apachelogger__, because people want it, and the people who want it know it's pre-alpha and to expect it.
[12:55] <apachelogger__> make it a stable there, a beta there or maybe just svn#
[12:55] <apachelogger__> DarkMageZ: no, they don't
[12:56] <dholbach> MOTU Q&A session in 4 minutes in #ubuntu-classroom
[12:56] <apachelogger__> remember the user focus of (k)ubuntu
[12:56] <apachelogger__> _user_ focus
[12:56] <apachelogger__> not _geek_ focus :P
[12:56] <DarkMageZ> apachelogger__, that's why amarok 2 shouldn't be shipped as a default installed item... and the package should have a good description :P
[12:57] <apachelogger__> DarkMageZ: _users_ don't read descriptions :P
[12:57] <Nightrose> DarkMageZ: enough people don´t read them
[12:57] <apachelogger__> they see amarok and amarok2
[12:57] <apachelogger__> logically amarok2 is better
[12:57] <apachelogger__> hence they install and their system goes wocka
[12:58] <cheguevara> iRon, did you ever sort out that compile error
[12:58] <Nightrose> which is neither good for kubuntu nor amarok
[12:58] <DarkMageZ> well then throw the source package up on launchpad then, but don't throw it into the repositories.
[12:58] <DarkMageZ> then those who want it bad enough can find it
[12:59] <cheguevara> ppa
[12:59] <iRon> cheguevara: yes.. i was need to apply patches
[12:59]  * apachelogger__ is getting a coffe for motu q&a
[12:59] <DarkMageZ> i'm not setting up a ppa. someone else can if they want.
[12:59] <cheguevara> heh i was gonna ask if you did that, should've :P
[13:00] <DarkMageZ> anyways. it's late. night all.
[13:00] <Riddell> Hobbsee: so um kdepimlibs failed again
[13:00] <Riddell> but it won't this time!
[13:00] <Riddell> could you raise the priority again?
[13:00] <Hobbsee> Riddell: *sigh*
[13:00] <Hobbsee> Riddell: i thougth you test built...
[13:01] <Riddell> oh it builds fine, it just has a dozen things that break in the mean time
[13:02] <Hobbsee> ahh
[13:03] <cheguevara> lol
[13:03] <Riddell> first libopenexr, then hal, yesterday kdelibs5 was out of sync
[13:04] <cheguevara> did adept get bumped for new apt
[13:05] <Riddell> it would need a rebuild
[13:05] <Riddell> I assume mvo did it
[13:06]  * cheguevara checks
[13:07] <cheguevara> he didn't yet
[13:07] <Riddell> cheguevara: he might be waiting on libept to compile
[13:07] <Riddell> adept is a twisty turny maze of depencencies
[13:08] <cheguevara>  hardy i386   Failed to build
[13:09]  * apachelogger doesn't like adept :|
[13:09] <cheguevara> that explains some things :P
[13:10] <cheguevara> failed on all platforms in fact
[13:10] <cheguevara> libept that is
[13:13] <mikkael> is it possible that gtk applications started in kde 3 on hardy dont respect the settings in the .gtkrc-2.0-kde file ?
[13:14] <Riddell> mikkael: yes, if ~/.kde/env/gtk-qt-engine.rc.sh isn't run
[13:15] <cheguevara> anyone tried kynaptic
[13:15] <mikkael> isnt this unmaintained/outdated ?
[13:15] <Riddell> we used that in hoary
[13:15] <Riddell> won the prize for worst name for an app :)
[13:16] <cheguevara> lol not surprise
[13:16] <cheguevara> d
[13:16] <cheguevara> but adept is quiet horible tbh
[13:16] <cheguevara> i end up using synaptic most of the time
[13:16] <mikkael> Riddell: i did that: michael@blackbox:~/.kde/env$ ./gtk-qt-engine.rc.sh
[13:17] <mikkael> then i started firefox, and it doenst has the settings of my gtkrc-2.0-kde
[13:17] <Riddell> apachelogger: "The Amarok 2 user interface has a lot of nice little aesthetic flourishes and is easily the most polished of the KDE 4 applications." someone likes it
[13:19] <mikkael> does kubuntu have support for gtk-apps, or are any problems here irrelevant ?
[13:19] <apachelogger> Riddell: Oo lol @ most polished
[13:20] <Riddell> they're not irrelevant, but it's not our top priority
[13:20] <apachelogger> the artwork is like made by 3 different people and totally not going well with each other ;-)
[13:24] <mikkael> well i think i have found some problems with gtk apps in kubuntu hardy and thought its a good thing for a quality bug ? when i finished reading the log of the bug tutorial yesterday ..:)
[13:24] <mikkael> *quality bug report
[13:24] <apachelogger> mikkael: probably
[13:34] <cheguevara> right
[13:34] <cheguevara> apachelogger, http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=ktorrent-kde4
[13:35] <cheguevara> damn copyright file is like 280 lines :(
[13:36] <apachelogger> wow
[13:36] <apachelogger> cheguevara: Depends: ${shlibs:Depends} is taking care of the dependencies
[13:36] <apachelogger> no need to list them all manually
[13:37] <apachelogger> in fact I'd suspect problems in case it needs a specific version
[13:37] <cheguevara> hmm
[13:37] <cheguevara> that was stupid
[13:37] <apachelogger> like for kdelibs5
[13:37] <cheguevara> oh crap i remembered to do that
[13:37] <cheguevara> and forgot
[13:37] <apachelogger> cheguevara: debian/control: line 22, trailing white space
[13:38] <apachelogger> cheguevara: also line 6+7 have trailing white spaces
[13:39] <cheguevara> right, fixed
[13:40] <apachelogger> cheguevara: debian/copyright: line 8, please bump the copyright year to 2005-2007
[13:41] <cheguevara> those that are copyrighted 2005-2007 in the header are listed separately
[13:41] <apachelogger> well
[13:41] <apachelogger> he has major copyright not only for 2005 ;-)
[13:42] <apachelogger> cheguevara: also please include the short version of gpl in the license section (as seen in that example: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/2741/)
[13:42] <apachelogger> line 282-283 is redundant with line 279-280
[13:43] <cheguevara> so i should just keep 279-280, the GPL 2 lines?
[13:43] <apachelogger> yes
[13:43] <cheguevara> kk
[13:43] <apachelogger> unless the source includes GPL1 code as well
[13:43] <apachelogger> which is not the case I guess ;-)
[13:44] <apachelogger> cheguevara: please state the version of gpl under which the packaging is licensed (2+ I'd say ;-)
[13:44] <cheguevara> The Ubuntu packaging is (C) 2007, Ilya Eremin<EMAIL_ADDRESS>and
[13:44] <cheguevara> is licensed under the GPL 2, see above.
[13:44] <cheguevara> like that?
[13:46] <cheguevara> so if i change the first copyright to Copyright 2005 - 2007 Joris Guisson<EMAIL_ADDRESS>unless otherwise indicated below
[13:46] <cheguevara> means
[13:46] <cheguevara> the section Copyright (C) 2007 by Joris Guisson<EMAIL_ADDRESS>and Copyright (C) 2005 - 2007 by Joris Guisson<EMAIL_ADDRESS>can go?
[13:47] <apachelogger> well
[13:47] <apachelogger> IMHO you should note Ivan Vasic<EMAIL_ADDRESS>also as main copyright holder
[13:47] <apachelogger> hence remove all references where both or only one of them holds a copyright
[13:47] <apachelogger> reduces the size
[13:48] <cheguevara> you just destroyed about 3 hours of last night's work with that one sentence
[13:48] <cheguevara> lol
[13:49] <apachelogger> cheguevara: about the package license: ...is licensed under the GPL 2, or (at your option) any later version, see above.
[13:49] <apachelogger> cheguevara: hehe, sorry ;-)
[13:50] <apachelogger> cheguevara: you can of course leave it the way it is, but I think it's better to keep the list small (in terms of maintaining and reviewing ;-)
[13:51] <cheguevara> heh yeah with every new version i (or someone else) will have to check all the files again, so i see your point
[13:53] <cheguevara> apachelogger, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/2742/
[13:54] <apachelogger> cheguevara: also for now you can do the plugins like 'plugins/stats/*'  if they only have one copyright holder
[13:54] <apachelogger> which is the case for most of them
[13:54] <apachelogger> or all
[13:55] <apachelogger> cheguevara: Krysztof is also having copyright on plugins/stats/drawer/*
[13:55] <cheguevara> nixternal, said yesterday I can't use wildcards :(
[13:55] <apachelogger> he did? Oo
[13:55] <apachelogger> well
[13:55] <apachelogger> ok, so don't do that :P
[13:55] <jpatrick> I do
[13:55]  * jpatrick hides
[13:55] <cheguevara> heh
[13:55] <apachelogger> you might write 'all files in plugins/stats are...'
[13:56] <cheguevara> whoa didn't notice there was a drawer folder in there
[13:57] <apachelogger> cheguevara: well if you write as I stated just some seconds ago this doesn't matter much since Krzysztof is having copyright on everything on plugins/stats anway
[13:58] <cheguevara> aha
[13:58] <apachelogger> cheguevara: plugins/infowidget/geoip/GeoIP-LICENSE.txt:Copyright (c) 2003 MaxMind LLC.  All Rights Reserved.
[13:58] <apachelogger> also take a look at that file in case it is not GPL
[13:58] <apachelogger> plugins/infowidget/GeoIP.* is also (C) 2003 MaxMind
[13:59] <cheguevara> Copyright (C) 2003 by MaxMind LLC
[13:59] <cheguevara> 	plugins/infowidget/GeoIP.c
[13:59] <cheguevara> 	plugins/infowidget/GeoIP.h
[13:59] <cheguevara> its in the copyright
[13:59] <apachelogger> ah, didn't see it, sorry
[14:00] <apachelogger> but infowidget/geoip/* is missing
[14:00] <cheguevara> OPEN DATA LICENSE (GeoIP Standard Edition Database)
[14:00] <cheguevara> ffs lol
[14:00] <apachelogger> ok, please mention this in the copyright file, and add the license text
[14:00] <cheguevara> kk
[14:00] <apachelogger> plugins/webinterface/www/* has some more copyright holders
[14:01] <apachelogger> that's it
[14:01]  * apachelogger is booting his laptop
[14:02] <apachelogger> omg, compiz like snow outside :D
[14:03] <txwikinger2> No snow here.. send some up
[14:03] <apachelogger> nah, all mine :P
[14:03] <txwikinger2> Preferable Sunday night, then they close everything on Monday
[14:03] <apachelogger> lol
[14:04] <apachelogger> cheguevara: I assume you already did a test-build?
[14:06] <cheguevara> apachelogger, i am actually using the program right now :P
[14:06] <jpatrick> woah, copyright file of doom..
[14:06] <bddebian> Heya
[14:06] <apachelogger> cheguevara: ok ;-)
[14:07] <cheguevara> seems to download torrents just fine :)
[14:07] <apachelogger> cheguevara: please upload as soon as you're done with the changes, so I can build
[14:07] <apachelogger> cheguevara: yeah, I'm using it for quite some time
[14:07]  * apachelogger is running kde4 for 1 month now
[14:09] <cheguevara> the php files in www
[14:09] <cheguevara> don't have a copyright header
[14:09] <cheguevara> should they?
[14:09] <apachelogger> plugins/webinterface/www/default/wz_tooltip.js:Copyright (c) 2002-2005 Walter Zorn. All rights reserved.
[14:09] <apachelogger> plugins/webinterface/www/coldmilk/rest.php: *   Copyright (C) 2007 by Dagur Valberg Johannsson                        *
[14:09] <apachelogger> plugins/webinterface/www/coldmilk/page_update.js: *   Copyright (C) 2007 by Dagur Valberg Johannsson                        *
[14:10] <cheguevara> aka grep pwns
[14:10] <cheguevara> :P
[14:11] <cheguevara> hmm i just realised i am using kde3's kate on kde 3
[14:15] <jpatrick> lo claydoh
[14:16] <cheguevara> apachelogger, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/2743/
[14:16] <cheguevara> what do you think
[14:31] <cheguevara> ok where's kate in kde 4
[14:31] <jpatrick> ./usr/lib/kde4/bin/kate
[14:31] <jpatrick> I think..
[14:32] <cheguevara> well its not installed
[14:32] <cheguevara> do you have it?
[14:33] <apachelogger> ehm
[14:33] <apachelogger> cheguevara: kdesdk-kde4 should be the package you need
[14:33] <cheguevara> thx
[14:33] <apachelogger> kate got moved to kdesdk since it is so advanced ;-)
[14:33] <cheguevara> so hows the copyright looking then
[14:34] <cheguevara> kdesdk-kde4 is at 3.96 :(
[14:34] <jpatrick> nop, haven't got round to installing kde4 yet
[14:34] <apachelogger> cheguevara: the package copyright please at the very end of debian/copyright
[14:34] <apachelogger> so one can find it easily
[14:34] <cheguevara> oh yeah
[14:35] <cheguevara> its gonna say see above and straight above will be the other license
[14:35] <apachelogger> other than that: looks good tome
[14:35] <cheguevara> is that ok
[14:35] <apachelogger> cheguevara: IMO above can be anywhere above ;-)
[14:36] <cheguevara> lol yeah
[14:36] <cheguevara> just checking :P
[14:36] <apachelogger> I personally mention the complete URL to GPL again there
[14:36] <apachelogger> so everyone gets it right ;-)
[14:38] <cheguevara> The Ubuntu packaging is (C) 2007, Ilya Eremin<EMAIL_ADDRESS>and
[14:38] <cheguevara> is licensed under the GPL 2, or (at your option) any later version, see
[14:38] <cheguevara> `/usr/share/common-licenses/GPL-2' for the complete version of GPL 2.
[14:38] <cheguevara> like that?
[14:39] <apachelogger> yes
[14:39] <apachelogger> cheguevara: though you have a ` and a ' ;-)
[14:40] <cheguevara> yeah lol
[14:46] <cheguevara> apachelogger, building
[15:06] <doilgheas> hi
[15:11] <cheguevara> apachelogger, http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=ktorrent-kde4
[15:14] <jpatrick> cheguevara: why all the deps?
[15:18] <voonte> Will/does kubuntu provide split packages of KDE4?
[15:18] <jpatrick> voonte: we do
[15:19] <cheguevara> jpatrick, which ones
[15:19] <jpatrick> cheguevara: in the Depends: line
[15:19] <cheguevara> Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}
[15:19] <apachelogger> jpatrick: look at the current upload :P
[15:20] <jpatrick> cheguevara: ahh, you removed with the last upload sorry
[15:20] <voonte> jpatrick, cool. Is there a package list (or similar) which packages are available?
[15:20] <cheguevara> :P
[15:23] <apachelogger> meh
[15:23] <apachelogger> cheguevara: that is still ubuntu1
[15:23] <apachelogger> in fact you can remove the whole ubuntu2 section ;-)
[15:23] <apachelogger> cheguevara: only increase the version for actual uploads to ubuntu
[15:23] <cheguevara> oh right
[15:24] <apachelogger> cheguevara: please close a needs-packaging bug
[15:25] <cheguevara> is there one?
[15:25] <apachelogger> "When you start to work on a new package, assign the needs-packaging bug to yourself and set it In Progress (if there is no needs-packaging bug, file one)."
[15:25] <apachelogger> cheguevara: don't think so
[15:25] <cheguevara> you mean open one then
[15:25] <apachelogger> cheguevara: please have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages
[15:26] <apachelogger> cheguevara: this way everyone can possibly know you're working on it, plus it increases your LP karma once the package got uploaded ;-)
[15:26] <cheguevara> yeah i know what you saying
[15:27] <cheguevara> just when you said close a bug, i thought there was one open :P
[15:27] <apachelogger> well, I dunno :P
[15:27] <apachelogger> maybe there is
[15:27] <apachelogger> but I doubt it
[15:27] <cheguevara> ditto
[15:28] <apachelogger> cheguevara: I think short description shouldn't end with a . -> Description: KTorrent is a BitTorrent program for KDE.
[15:29] <jpatrick> cheguevara: and pinch the description from apt-cache show ktorrent
[15:29] <cheguevara> aha, noted
[15:33] <cheguevara> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/176372
[15:33] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 176372 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] ktorrent-kde4 from extragear" [Undecided,In progress]
[15:35] <jpatrick> cheguevara: now you can add: "(LP: #176372)" your "* Initial release." line :)
[15:36] <cheguevara> yep :P
[15:36] <jpatrick> and it'll close your bug automagically when it hits the archives
[15:36] <cheguevara> nice
[15:37] <apachelogger> meh
[15:37] <apachelogger> one of my routers just exploded -.-
[15:37] <apachelogger> blew up
[15:37] <apachelogger> died
[15:38] <apachelogger> hum
[15:38]  * apachelogger is wondering why ktorrent's binaries got an rparth
[15:38] <apachelogger> is that normal for current kde4 packages?
[15:39] <apachelogger> stdin: kfax debian/control: line 4, typo: packge
[15:39] <apachelogger> stdin: please close a needs-packaging bug
[15:40] <apachelogger> stdin: current Standards-Version is 3.7.3
[15:41] <apachelogger> stdin: debian/copyright is missing some detail IMHO, line 15-16 is redundant with 12-13, please state the version of gpl the package is licensed under
[15:44] <apachelogger> stdin: binary's "Section" is redudant with source's "Section" in debian/control
[15:44] <Hobbsee> apachelogger: you have n orevu account?
[15:44] <apachelogger> yes :P
[15:44] <cheguevara> lol
[15:44] <stdin> apachelogger: what typo on line 4?
[15:44] <apachelogger> Hobbsee: are you annoyed?
[15:44] <Hobbsee> lazy :P
[15:44] <Hobbsee> apachelogger: no, just surprised :)
[15:44] <apachelogger> stdin: packge isn't a word IMO :P
[15:45] <stdin> apachelogger: line 4 of debian/control: "Maintainer: Ubuntu MOTU Developers<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[15:45] <apachelogger> oh
[15:45] <apachelogger> sorry
[15:45] <apachelogger> stdin: changelog
[15:45] <stdin> that's more like it :)
[15:45] <apachelogger> Hobbsee: I prefer IRC if the uploader is around, much faster for discussions and such ;-)
[15:46] <Hobbsee> apachelogger: this is indeed true
[15:46] <stdin> you think "This package is licenced under the GNU/GPL version 2" is enough to add to the copyright?
[15:46] <Hobbsee> stdin: 2 only, or 2 and later?
[15:46] <stdin> +later
[15:47] <Hobbsee> right, then you need to say that
[15:47] <apachelogger> so you should note that ;-)
[15:47] <stdin> just added that
[15:47] <apachelogger> stdin: please check the source for different copyrights/licenses
[15:47] <apachelogger> and add the short version of GPL
[15:47] <cheguevara> damn i wish this compiled with -j3
[15:47] <apachelogger> ^_^
[15:48] <cheguevara> takes too long :P
[15:48] <apachelogger> indeed
[15:48] <jpatrick> cheguevara: I recommend a good book for pbuilder
[15:49]  * cheguevara reminisces about gentoo
[15:49] <cheguevara> jpatrick, which one
[15:49] <jpatrick> any
[15:49] <cheguevara> kk
[15:49] <cheguevara> my learning patch is usually not RTFM, but "do it and see what happenes" :P
[15:50] <cheguevara> not patch
[15:50] <cheguevara> path
[15:50] <jpatrick> cheguevara: no, I mean a reading to pass the time
[15:50] <jpatrick> book*
[15:51] <cheguevara> oooh i get it now
[15:51] <cheguevara> sorry
[15:51] <apachelogger> sweet lord jesus
[15:51] <cheguevara> english not exactly native language :P
[15:51] <cheguevara> apachelogger ?
[15:51] <apachelogger> cheguevara: there is also a FLAGS_LICENCE
[15:51] <jpatrick> don't worry ;)
[15:51] <apachelogger> please have a look at it
[15:51] <cheguevara> oh ffs
[15:52] <cheguevara> Hobbsee, can i borrow the Long Pointy Stick to "talk" to ktorrent devs
[15:53] <Hobbsee> hehe
[15:53] <apachelogger> lol
[15:54] <apachelogger> Riddell: should the extragear apps have 4:3.97.0-0ubuntu1 or 3.97.0-0ubuntu1?
[15:54] <cheguevara> "All sets provided by us are free to use to anyone, for commercial or non-commercial websites."
[15:54]  * apachelogger notes: ktorrent is not a website :P
[15:54] <apachelogger> but I think we can interpret this as free to use for everything
[15:55] <cheguevara> should i put it in copyright?
[15:55] <Riddell> apachelogger: I'm err on without the epoch until debian picks a versioning scheme
[15:55] <Riddell> cheguevara: that the ktorrent flags?
[15:55] <cheguevara> yar
[15:55] <Riddell> there's an extra licence somewhere
[15:55] <cheguevara> "All sets provided by us are free to use to anyone, for commercial or non-commercial websites."
[15:55] <cheguevara> thats what it says
[15:55] <Riddell> jpatrick I think it was
[15:55] <apachelogger> stdin: please change version to 3.97.0-0ubuntu1
[15:55] <Riddell> e-mail the author and got it under CC
[15:56] <Riddell> I forget for which package now
[15:56] <stdin> apachelogger: already done, uploading when I give it another look over
[15:56] <apachelogger> ok
[15:57] <stdin> does it matter that 3 of the files don't have the "or (at your option) any later version." ?
[15:57] <jpatrick> cheguevara: those flags are under this Creative Commons license: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.0/de/
[15:58] <cheguevara> ah
[15:58] <cheguevara> thanks
[15:58]  * Hobbsee wonders why people wanted pictures of her.
[15:58] <jpatrick> I asked the author when I packaged tork
[15:58]  * cheguevara hides
[15:58] <Hobbsee> nixternal_: thanks :)
[15:59] <cheguevara> http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.0/legalcode
[15:59] <apachelogger> stdin: Riddell will know
[15:59] <cheguevara> should i add a copy of this then
[16:01] <jpatrick> cheguevara: this is how I did it for tork: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/2747/
[16:01] <apachelogger> cheguevara: from tork's debian/copyright: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/2746/
[16:01] <jpatrick> apachelogger: hmmm
[16:02] <cheguevara> jpatrick, why the german version
[16:02] <apachelogger> because tha author is german :P
[16:02] <jpatrick> cheguevara: that's the link he gave me
[16:02] <cheguevara> lol kk
[16:02] <Riddell> Hobbsee: could you give back kdebase-runtime/4:3.97.0-1ubuntu4
[16:02] <Riddell> and up the priority
[16:03] <stdin> Riddell: do you kow if it matter that 3 of the files don't have the "or (at your option) any later version." in the copyright ?
[16:03] <stdin> *matters
[16:03] <Riddell> stdin: yes, it defaults to being GPL 2 only
[16:03] <stdin> ok
[16:04] <Riddell> stdin: what is it?
[16:04] <Hobbsee> Riddell: done
[16:04] <apachelogger> Riddell: kfax-kde4
[16:04] <stdin> Riddell: kfax from extragear
[16:04] <apachelogger> meh
[16:04] <apachelogger> rsibreak coming up -.-
[16:04] <apachelogger> afk
[16:05] <cheguevara> bbiab, gotta go town
[16:05] <Riddell> you might want to e-mail the copyright holder and ask them to sign up for http://techbase.kde.org/Projects/KDE_Relicensing
[16:28] <xRaich[o]2x> hi i'm searching for the kde4 qt4-designer plugin. is this already included in the PPA kde4 rc2 packages?
[16:29] <Riddell> xRaich[o]2x: /usr/lib/qt4/plugins/designer/kdewidgets.so
[16:29] <xRaich[o]2x> ah thanks :)
[16:29] <Riddell> it might have problems with our KDE 4 path though
[16:34] <xRaich[o]2x> Riddell: no actually i was pretty stupid asking that question ^^ it was already installed and working
[16:36] <Riddell> goodness
[16:43] <Riddell> mhb: about?
[16:52] <mhb> Riddell: I'm wanted? wow!
[16:52] <mhb> Riddell: yup, I'm here.
[16:52] <Riddell> mhb: hi
[16:52] <Riddell> mhb: what do you think is wrong with bug 132141?
[16:52] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 132141 in dolphin "desktop_dolphin translations missing in the source package" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/132141
[16:54] <mhb> one moment.
[16:54] <Riddell> mhb: the translations for the .desktop files are in the .desktop files themselves
[16:54] <Riddell> launchpad can add .po files
[16:55] <iRon> Riddell: 'v found how to implement user disk mounting.. i believe that it could be done in a couple of days :)
[16:55] <Riddell> but it looks like the build isn't adding the bits needed to the .desktop files for launchpad to pick them up
[16:55] <Riddell> iRon: you're a genius!
[16:55] <Riddell> iRon: what do you think needs doing?
[16:55] <mhb> Riddell: in the d3lphin branch I rewrote D3lphin to use konqueror's .desktop files.
[16:56] <mhb> Riddell: that should be a better solution, because most of the apps (krename etc.) add only konqi's .desktop files.
[16:56] <Riddell> yeah, that seems sensible#
[16:58] <iRon> Riddell: i've found where i need to patch code.. so i'm working on it now. whom i need to send a patch?
[16:58] <Riddell> iRon: here
[16:58] <iRon> Riddell: ok
[16:59] <mhb> Riddell: entschuldigung, I have thought d3lphin has no translation files with it, but I was wrong.
[17:00] <nareshov> Riddell: have the kde4-rc2 extragear been packaged?
[17:01] <mhb> Riddell: funktioniert gut in German. By the way, do you plan to synchronize the Dolphin default bookmarks, the open file dialog bookmarks and the kicker button bookmarks?
[17:02] <Riddell> nareshov: people have started on bits of it
[17:03] <Riddell> mhb: I've not looked into that at all
[17:05] <mhb> might be a good idea.
[17:05] <Riddell> possibly not that easy
[17:06] <Riddell> if only we had an elite c++ programmer about
[17:06]  * Riddell eyes up iRon
[17:06] <iRon> :-)
[17:06] <mhb> we can just set it to be same as default.
[17:06] <mhb> no need to bother elite programmers before KDE4.
[17:08] <Riddell> ah, not keep them synced
[17:08] <nareshov> Riddell: give me an extragear to package :)
[17:08] <mhb> right, no need to invest precious time into KDE3.
[17:14] <Riddell> nareshov: apachelogger may be keeping track of what's being worked on better than me
[17:14] <Riddell> nareshov: kphotoalbum maybe? ftp://ftp.kde.org/pub/kde/unstable/3.97/src/extragear/
[17:15] <Riddell> you can use kdetoys-kde4 as a template
[17:15] <nareshov> okay
[17:23] <cheguevara> corrected ktorrent-kde4 uploading
[17:23] <cheguevara> am off to do some shopping
[17:27] <Mez> Riddell, your KDE4 PPA thing - it gives me a "cannot locate kdestartupconfig4" and crashes
[17:29] <Riddell> Mez: what actually are you running?
[17:29] <Mez> Riddell, gutsy ... used the instructions from http://kubuntu.org/announcements/kde4-rc2.php
[17:29] <Mez> tried to login for first time and got that error (looked like an X error)
[17:29] <Mez> it's the line kstartupconfig4
[17:30] <Mez> kstartupconfig4
[17:30] <Mez> if test $? -ne 0; then
[17:30] <Mez>     xmessage -geometry 500x100 "Could not start kstartupconfig4. Check your installation."
[17:30] <Mez>     exit 1
[17:30] <Mez> fi
[17:30] <Mez> those lines - I'm getting that come out...
[17:31] <Mez> Riddell, it's obv not being added to my path
[17:31] <Riddell> Mez: install kdebase-workspace-bin
[17:32] <Mez> Riddell, it's installed, just found out kstartupconfig4 is exiting with the error
[17:32] <Mez> kstartupconfig4: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/libQtDBus.so.4: undefined symbol: _ZN14QObjectPrivate15checkWindowRoleEv
[17:33] <Mez> seems like I need the -updates package, but it's not getting it
[17:34] <Mez> oh, nope - I gots it
[17:38] <Mez> Riddell, any ideas?
[17:38] <Riddell> fdoving: I've uploaded the patch in bug 162233, please follow it through the SRU process
[17:38] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 162233 in kdelibs "KIO FTP is shortening the URL" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/162233
[17:38] <Riddell> Mez: can't say I do
[17:39] <Mez> Riddell... hmm :(
[17:39] <Riddell> Mez: do other apps work?
[17:39] <Mez> pretty much all except skype
[17:40] <Mez> Riddell - want an strace ?
[17:40] <Riddell> what version of kdebase-workspace-bin do you have installed?
[17:41] <Mez> Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold
[17:41] <Mez> | Status=Not/Installed/Config-f/Unpacked/Failed-cfg/Half-inst/t-aWait/T-pend
[17:41] <Mez> |/ Err?=(none)/Hold/Reinst-required/X=both-problems (Status,Err: uppercase=bad)
[17:41] <Mez> ||/ Name                  Version                       Description
[17:41] <Mez> +++-[17:41] <Mez> ii  kdebase-workspace-bin 4:3.97.0-1ubuntu4~gutsy1~ppa1 core binaries for the KDE base module
[17:42] <Mez> oops, I shoulda just copied and pasted
[17:42] <Riddell> fdoving: did you get a chance to test those flash patches?
[17:42] <stdin> Mez: with libqt4-core 4.3.2-0ubuntu3.1 ?
[17:42] <Mez> stdin, yup
[17:42] <Mez> dpkg: need an action option
[17:42] <Mez> Type dpkg --help for help about installing and deinstalling packages [*];
[17:42] <Mez> Use `dselect' or `aptitude' for user-friendly package management;
[17:42] <Mez> Type dpkg -Dhelp for a list of dpkg debug flag values;
[17:42] <Mez> Type dpkg --force-help for a list of forcing options;
[17:42] <Mez> Type dpkg-deb --help for help about manipulating *.deb files;
[17:42] <stdin> hmm, I have the same and kstartupconfig4 works fine here
[17:42] <Mez> Type dpkg --license|--licence for copyright licence and lack of warranty (GNU GPL) [*].
[17:42] <Mez> Options marked [*] produce a lot of output - pipe it through `less' or `more' !
[17:42] <Mez> ii  libqt4-core                                4.3.2-0ubuntu3.1                     Qt 4 core non-GUI functionality runtime libr
[17:43] <stdin> stdin@goten:~$ kstartupconfig4 ;echo $?
[17:43] <stdin> 0
[17:44] <Mez> stdin, mez@coma % /usr/lib/kde4/bin/kstartupconfig4; echo $?                                                                                /home/mez  5:44PM
[17:44] <Mez> /usr/lib/kde4/bin/kstartupconfig4: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/libQtDBus.so.4: undefined symbol: _ZN14QObjectPrivate15checkWindowRoleEv
[17:44] <Mez> 127
[17:45] <stdin> hmm, even from a normal session (without the kde4 env) it works here
[17:45] <Mez> hmmles... https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qt4-qtruby/+bug/128797
[17:45] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 128797 in qt4-qtruby "[Gutsy] qtsvg.so.4 has undefined symbol" [Undecided,Fix committed]
[17:47] <elisiano> stdin: u know that u can have the exit status in the bash prompt, right? (I'm telling you because I see that u use it a lot)
[17:47] <elisiano> http://blog.gnist.org/article.php?story=BashPromptWithExitStatus
[17:48] <stdin> elisiano: yes I know, I'm actually using zsh more now and have it in the prompt there :)
[17:48] <stdin> elisiano: it's just that "command;echo $?" is more clear
[17:49] <elisiano> I see
[17:49] <elisiano> zsh is really nice, especially for the right prompt :D
[17:50] <stdin> I'm just getting used to it, I've used bash for so long it's takes a while adjust
[17:50] <stdin> and my default shell is still bash for now
[17:51] <elisiano> I'm back to bash because I'd have to install zsh in all my servers and that's annoying
[17:53] <Mez> stdin, riddell... *sighs* I've no clue what it is
[17:53] <Mez> I'm not the only one getting the issue
[17:54] <stdin> Mez: have you tried reinstalling libqt4-core? (I don't see why it would work exactly but worth a shot)
[17:54] <Mez> thrice ;)
[17:54] <Mez> stdin, am not the only one
[17:54] <Mez> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=3940940
[17:57] <stdin> I'm struggling to think of a reason of how that could happen when it works fine for others...
[18:03] <apachelogger> cheguevara: please remove the trailing full stop from short description in control
[18:04] <nareshov> apachelogger: what do I put in the Uploaders: field ?
[18:05] <apachelogger> nareshov: are you creating a package?
[18:05] <nareshov> yeah, kphotoalbum
[18:05] <apachelogger> nothing
[18:05] <nareshov> ok
[18:05] <apachelogger> we don't use the uploaders field
[18:05] <nareshov> ahh
[18:06] <ScottK> Don't even include the field.
[18:06] <nareshov> ok
[18:31] <nareshov> CMake Error: ERROR: Could not find KDE4 kde4-config
[18:31] <nareshov> kde4-config exists at /usr/lib/kde4/bin/kde4-config
[18:31] <nareshov> using dh
[18:32] <stdin> make sure you tell cmake to use the right prefix
[18:32] <nareshov> the CMAKE_INSTALL_PREFIX ?
[18:32] <stdin> yes
[18:33] <nareshov> currently it's at /usr
[18:33] <stdin> that's not right then ;) it needs to be /usr/lib/kde4
[18:33] <nareshov> should it be /usr/lib/kde4 ?
[18:33] <nareshov> ok
[18:34] <stdin> you may find it easier to use cdbs and use  debian/cdbs/kde.mk
[18:34] <stdin> it set's all the right variables for cmake
[18:34] <nareshov> oh
[18:34] <stdin> and then debian/rules is just one line (generally) "include debian/cdbs/kde.mk"
[18:35] <stdin> you can find the file in the source of kdebase-kde (and others, but that's the smallest download)
[18:35] <nareshov>  /usr/share/cdbs/1/class/kde.mk
[18:36] <Riddell> nareshov: no, that's for kde 3
[18:36] <ilia> hi, guys
[18:36] <stdin> no, we need a slightly modified one (or so I believe)
[18:36] <Riddell> hi ilia!
[18:36] <nareshov> oh
[18:37] <ilia> I've installed kde4 packages from PPA and now I want to report several issues to launchpad
[18:37] <stdin> nareshov: yeah, the one in /usr/share/cdbs/1/class/kde.mk is for kde3
[18:37] <nareshov> I got an "E: unable to find a source package for kdebase-kde4" :
[18:37] <nareshov> |
[18:37] <ilia> but how do I report kubuntu specific issues (like wrong dependencies)?
[18:38] <stdin> nareshov: you'll have to add the deb-src line from the PPA, same as the normal line but replace "deb" with "deb-src"
[18:38] <nareshov> ah
[18:39] <Riddell> ilia: what's the issue?
[18:40] <ilia> no TLS support in kopete due to missing "QCA TLS plugin"
[18:40] <nareshov> oh, I got that one
[18:44] <ilia> Riddell: I've tried to connect to google talk vie SSL and got this message: SSL support could not be initialized for account <...> This is most likely because the QCA TLS plugin is not installed on your system.
[18:44] <cheguevara> apachelogger, which one I don't see it
[18:45] <cheguevara> ilia, sudo apt-get libqca2
[18:46] <ilia> dpkg -l |grep qca
[18:46] <ilia> ii  libqca2                                    2.0.0-3~gutsy1~ppa1                       Qt Cryptographic Architecture - shared libra
[18:46] <ilia> ii  qca-tls                                    1.0-3build1                               TLS plugin for the Qt Cryptographic Architec
[18:46] <ilia> I already have these
[18:47] <Riddell> ilia: what version of libqt4-core do you have?
[18:47] <ilia> 4.3.2-0ubuntu3.1
[18:47] <nareshov> same here
[18:48] <cheguevara> lets try on hardy
[18:48] <stdin> I don't think it's built on hardy
[18:48] <cheguevara> meh
[18:49] <cheguevara> kopete 4:3.97.0-0ubuntu2
[18:49] <cheguevara> aint that the one
[18:50] <ilia> kopete-kde4                                4:3.97.0-0ubuntu1~gutsy1~ppa1
[18:50] <cheguevara> meh can't install it atm my wifi is messed up
[18:50] <cheguevara> existing connections work, but new ones don't connect
[18:50] <cheguevara> go figure
[18:50] <stdin> cheguevara: ahh yes it is, it just isn't built on anything but i386
[18:51] <cheguevara> ah :)
[18:51] <cheguevara> as in failed, or just still building?
[18:51] <stdin> cheguevara: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+source/kdenetwork-kde4/+builds < as in failed
[18:52] <cheguevara> can't view it anyway :P
[18:52] <stdin> oh, take off the edgy part
[18:52] <stdin> *edge
[18:52] <cheguevara> no as in my intetnet don't work :P
[18:52] <cheguevara> *internet
[18:52] <stdin> you're communicating telepathically then? :p
 existing connections work, but new ones don't connect
[18:53] <cheguevara> as weird as it is
[18:54] <cheguevara> too afraid to reconnect or i'll end up with no internet at all lol
[18:55] <stdin> ilia: I just logged into my gtalk account with kopete-kde4, works here
[18:56] <stdin> ii  kopete-kde4                                4:3.97.0-0ubuntu1~gutsy1~ppa1
[18:56] <nareshov> I got a login failed with unknown reason :\
[18:58] <apachelogger> cheguevara: oh, didn't showup in the diff
[18:58] <apachelogger> I'm away for a meeting
[18:58] <apachelogger> cheguevara: will have another look when I'm back, should probably be advocatable now ;-)
[18:58] <cheguevara> apachelogger, nice, should i bug someone else to take a look?
[18:59] <apachelogger> yep
[18:59] <apachelogger> nixternal for example
[18:59] <ilia> stdin: I don't think the problem is in Kopete, but in the absense of some library/plugin
[18:59] <cheguevara> too bad jpatrick is gonem since he did ktorrent before
[19:09] <ilia> I've found a PPA team at https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members-kde4 Now how do I report a bug, so this team will see it? Or is there a better place to report kubuntu specific KDE4 bugs?
[19:12] <Riddell> ilia: you can report it at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdenetwork-kde4/+filebug if you want
[19:12] <Riddell> but you've already told me and stdin who are the two people involved
[19:12] <Riddell> I'll try and look out for it when I get a chance
[19:14] <ilia> I think it's better to fill a bug report, so not only you and stdin will know about it.
[19:15] <ilia> Anyone can google about the same problem and find a solution or help to find one
[19:16] <ilia> another issue is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kde4base/+bug/176135
[19:16] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 176135 in kde4base "kde4 startupconfig missing" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[19:16] <ilia> It's trivial to fix, but a right guy should look at this
[19:17] <ilia> I mean, someone who have permissions to change PPA sources
[19:18] <stdin> ilia: kde4base is an old package, the one you want to use is kdebase-kde4
[19:21] <cheguevara> ilia: русский?
[19:22] <ilia> stdin: I know, and I've wrote, that the problematic script belongs to kdebase-workspace-bin. But the bug was already openned so why open another one?
[19:22] <ilia> cheguevara: да
[19:23] <cheguevara> stdin: that but is definitely true btw
[19:23] <cheguevara> i've had the same problem
[19:24] <stdin> ilia: I meant change the source package, but I've done that for you
[19:25] <ilia> stdin: how can I change a package?
[19:25] <cheguevara> stdin: can the interpreter be changed to bash? since all systems should have bash installed anyway
[19:26] <stdin> ilia: well I've already done it, but it's the 2nd link by "Also affects:"
[19:26] <stdin> cheguevara: interpreter for what?
[19:27] <cheguevara> startkde
[19:27] <ilia> stdin: for startkde script, I gues he talks about this bug
[19:27] <cheguevara> sh to bash
[19:27] <cheguevara> this is an upstream not an ubuntu issue though
[19:27] <stdin> what would be the point?
[19:28] <stdin> it's would be better to fix the bash script to be sh compliant
[19:28] <cheguevara> yeah true
[19:28] <stdin> not all systems use bash as the default shell
[19:28] <ilia> so I proposed in bug report
[19:28] <stdin> and not all bash implementations are the same
[19:28] <ilia> [ -e THE_SCRIPT ] && . THE_SCRIPT
[19:28] <cheguevara> http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/KDE/kdebase/workspace/startkde.cmake?revision=742191&view=markup
[19:28] <ilia> it's easy
[19:29] <nixternal> startkde works fine for me, but I don't use dash
[19:29] <cheguevara> nixternal, does it work fine for you if you rm -rf ~/.kde4
[19:29] <nixternal> I rm -rf ~/.kde4 after every update
[19:29] <nixternal> every svn update that is
[19:29] <cheguevara> oh you don't use dash
[19:30] <cheguevara> skipped that
[19:30] <cheguevara> yeah if you sh = bash then it works
[19:30] <nixternal> heck no, dash didn't work with scripts I created when using dapper, so I changed to bash again so it would work
[19:30] <cheguevara> basically this should be taken upstream
[19:31] <ilia> so are somebody here going to report it to KDE guys?
[19:32] <stdin> nothing stopping you from doing it ;)
[19:32] <cheguevara> gonna do it now
[19:33] <ilia> thanks, cheguevara
[19:34] <cheguevara> ilia, незачто
[19:34] <cheguevara> :)
[19:34] <ilia> cheguevara: :)
[19:35] <ilia> So anyone can suggest me yet, what to do with kopete and broken SSL/TLS?
[19:35] <cheguevara> nixternal, btw i was told to bug you about reviewing my revu upload :P
[19:35] <ilia> It seems like missed dependency
[19:35] <cheguevara> ilia, let me try it on hardy quickly
[19:35] <nixternal> link me homeskillet
[19:36] <cheguevara> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=ktorrent-kde4
[19:36]  * Mez hopes KDE4 works for him at home
[19:37] <nixternal> cheguevara: W: ktorrent-kde4 source: newer-standards-version 3.7.3 (current is 3.7.2)
[19:37] <nixternal> bump debian/control standards to 3.7.3
[19:37] <cheguevara> it is 3.7.3
[19:37] <cheguevara> but revu dont' know about 3.7.3
[19:37] <cheguevara> :P
[19:37] <nixternal> ahh, ya
[19:37] <nixternal> sorry about that
[19:40] <Mez> nixternal, having one of those days ?
[19:40] <nixternal> ya
[19:40] <nixternal> I usually don't look at what revu has to say, but being lazy I did, and it bit me in the ass :)
[19:41] <cheguevara> lol
[19:41] <Mez> lol - just as long as you dont turn out like me and have one of those days every day
[19:41] <nixternal> nah, just every other day right now :)
[19:42] <Mez> it's a slippy slope
[19:42] <nixternal> stupid java jdbc crap doesn't play nice with postgre
[19:43] <nixternal> hahahahahhaa...it is one of those days
[19:43] <cheguevara> ilia, whats the server for google talk
[19:43] <nosrednaekim> cheguevara: talk.google.com
[19:43] <cheguevara> thx
[19:44] <nixternal> selct rx from patient where bd < 1940
[19:44] <nixternal> selct? I hate typos in code
[19:44] <cheguevara> yep ilia don't work in hardy either
[19:45] <Riddell> Lure: don't suppose you've any idea on bug 140555 ?
[19:45] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 140555 in ubuntu "keyboard suddenly unresponsive / weird mouse state" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/140555
[19:45] <Mez> brb, hopegfully on KDE4
[19:45] <ilia> cheguevara: so what do you think we can do with it?
[19:46] <Lure> Riddell: no idea , very strange issue...
[19:47] <nixternal> Riddell: that is compiz causing that
[19:47] <cheguevara> ilia, let me investigate a bit, hang around
[19:47] <Mez> ew, gnome apps look horrid
[19:47] <nixternal> I have witnessed that only with compiz...and notice him having to try kwin --replace and the amarok icon in the top left
[19:47] <nosrednaekim> Mez: ya....
[19:48] <nixternal> Mez: gnome apps always look horrid :p
[19:48] <nosrednaekim> nixternal: yup, had that happen to me before
[19:48] <cheguevara> Riddell, do you think you can push that startkde fix upstream, ppl on #kde4-devel seem to be ignoring me :P
[19:49] <nixternal> should that fix go upstream, or should we just include a patch in our package?
[19:49] <Mez> nixternal, not in gnome, and not within KDE3 on kubuntu
[19:49] <Mez> I mean UBER horrid
[19:49] <nixternal> ya, gimp looks all 1990s netscape
[19:49] <cheguevara> nixternal, unless upstream expects everyone to use bash...
[19:49] <nosrednaekim> Mez: its because the qt style is not being applied to the gtk app.
[19:50] <nosrednaekim> like it is in kde3
[19:50] <Mez> nosrednaekim, I know
[19:50] <nixternal> and I am sure they do, seeing as a majority of the distros that release a kde version uses bash
[19:50] <nixternal> or the groovy zsh
[19:50] <cheguevara> yeah but it doesn't hurt bash either
[19:50] <cheguevara> it doesn't hurt anything really, just fixes :P
[19:50] <nixternal> they need to create the uber shell where all scripts will work
[19:51] <Mez> and pidgin doesnt run correctly
[19:53] <Mez> hmmles... that's weird
[19:53] <Mez> Xchat doesn't appear if desktop effects are on
[19:54] <cheguevara> at least desktop effects work for you :P
[19:59] <nixternal> let me guess, kopete isn't work in our RC packages?
[19:59] <nixternal> s/work/working
[19:59] <cheguevara> depends what you wanna use
[19:59] <cheguevara> gtalk isnt
[19:59] <cheguevara> am actually working on fixing that now though to save stdin some work :P
[19:59] <nixternal> interesting, seeing as decibel FTBS
[19:59] <nosrednaekim> nixternal: AIM is working for me
[20:00] <nixternal> test building and then going to reupload
[20:00] <cheguevara> its not built with decibel support
[20:00] <cheguevara> since its optional
[20:02] <cheguevara> E: pbuilder-satisfydepends failed.
[20:02] <cheguevara> ok wtf
[20:03] <nixternal> pbuilder-hardy is broke again
[20:03] <nixternal> did you just do a pbuilder-hardy update?
[20:03] <nixternal> I have one pbuilder session running fine, and the other just crashed out with that same error
[20:03] <cheguevara> no got yesterdays
[20:03] <dthacker-laptop> cheguevara: did they review your package yet?
[20:03] <cheguevara> didn't update today
[20:04] <cheguevara> dthacker, waiting for nixternal and apachelogger to do it
[20:04] <cheguevara> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[20:04] <cheguevara>   kdebase-runtime-bin: Depends: libxine1 (>= 1.1.4) but it is not installable
[20:04] <cheguevara> let me do an update
[20:05] <dthacker-laptop> cheguevara: good luck!  gotta run.
[20:05] <cheguevara> kk
[20:05] <nixternal> ktorrent-kde4 is currently building
[20:05] <cheguevara> nice :)
[20:06] <nixternal> what are they doing to the repos...now I can't build any packages :(
[20:07] <cheguevara> damn xine
[20:08] <cheguevara> and noone rebuilt adept yet
[20:08] <nixternal> xine should be fixed now
[20:08] <nixternal> libxine1 has been replaced by libxine1-bin
[20:09] <cheguevara> 0 packages upgraded, 303 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
[20:10] <cheguevara> ok thats gonna take a while :P
[20:13] <cheguevara> hmm udev update
[20:13] <cheguevara> that got potential to break something
[20:16] <nosrednaekim> lol
[20:16] <nosrednaekim> hardy?
[20:17] <smcintyre> Hello
[20:17] <nosrednaekim> helo
[20:17] <smcintyre> kdenlive is not available for Kubuntu?
[20:18] <nixternal> smcintyre: you are everywhere aren't ya :)
[20:18] <nosrednaekim> smcintyre: I think it is actually.
[20:18] <nixternal> and from Jamaica? do you know DaSkreach (Roger)?
[20:18]  * smcintyre is Roger
[20:18] <nixternal> figured as much
[20:18] <nixternal> why are you hiding?
[20:18] <smcintyre> :-P
[20:18] <smcintyre> I'm not I'm fixing someone's machine and waiting on files to copy
[20:18] <nixternal> I was wondering why you said hi to me in #katapult, as I had no clue who you were
[20:18] <nosrednaekim> !info kdenlive
[20:18] <ubotu> kdenlive: A Non-Linear Video Editing Suite for KDE. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.5-0.0ubuntu1 (gutsy), package size 648 kB, installed size 1992 kB
[20:19] <smcintyre> What?
[20:19] <smcintyre> !info kdenlive feisty
[20:19] <ubotu> Package kdenlive does not exist in feisty
[20:19] <smcintyre> >_<
[20:19] <smcintyre> they are a version behind
[20:19] <nixternal> after seeing the jamaica though, I kind of had the idea it was you...I mean, how many people in Jamaica would actually come on IRC?
[20:19] <nixternal> hehe
[20:19] <smcintyre> I'm trying to wean them off of Premiere
[20:19] <cheguevara> nosrednaekim, yeah hardy
[20:19] <smcintyre> nixternal: My entire company?
[20:20] <smcintyre> nixternal: only one on katapult though :)
[20:20] <smcintyre> hi cheguevara.  Informer!
[20:26] <nixternal> hahahahahhahaha
[20:26] <nixternal> he was from Canada, and people thought he was the real deal
[20:26] <smcintyre> Yeah he still does some good stuff
[20:26] <cheguevara> lol
[20:26] <imbrandon> gah i thought i was here already ScottK
[20:26] <imbrandon> lol
[20:26] <smcintyre> he releases mixes down here with people
[20:27] <ScottK> Yeah.  So it's gnash or flash, but not both?  Did I understand that right imbrandon?
[20:27] <imbrandon> is Riddell arround this $time-of-day ?
[20:28] <cheguevara> he was active a bit ago
[20:28] <imbrandon> ScottK: yea, well not really its more like !flash peroid or konq+XEmbed
[20:28] <nixternal> depends on the amount of money you have imbrandon
[20:28] <imbrandon> nixternal: we have an issue
[20:28] <imbrandon> hehe
[20:28] <nixternal> imbrandon: if it is flash, we know that
[20:28] <imbrandon> ok let me re-cap for everyone
[20:28] <nixternal> gotta love konq :)
[20:28] <cheguevara> :P
[20:28] <imbrandon> nixternal: yea but the thing is, i have it in the SRU queue now
[20:28] <imbrandon> for dapper on up to gutsy
[20:28] <imbrandon> sooooo
[20:28] <nixternal> doh
[20:28] <imbrandon> do we fix it for everyone or
[20:29] <imbrandon> knowingly break konqueror
[20:29] <imbrandon> it works in others
[20:29] <smcintyre> nixternal: But let me know when next we have a UDS and we will convince the powers to have it here :)
[20:29] <nixternal> don't break konqi :(
[20:29] <nixternal> although, I don't use anything < Hardy :)
[20:29] <nixternal> but the rest of the Kubuntu users do
[20:29] <nixternal> and my god that would be one hell of a poopstorm
[20:29] <cheguevara> yeah firefox is not installed by default in kubuntu, so...
[20:29] <imbrandon> nixternal: the only alternative i can see is flashplugin-nonfree conflicts with konq
[20:29] <nixternal> I can see the OSNews, /., and Digg FUD already
[20:30] <imbrandon> as XEmbed wont be SRU worthy ( new feature )
[20:30] <cheguevara> ...
[20:30] <nixternal> well, if you SRU flash nonfree, then it will go from new feature to must have bug fix
[20:30] <ScottK> imbrandon: It depends on how you look at it.  From the perspective of the user, no Flash is a regression that is SRU worthy.
[20:31] <imbrandon> true
[20:31] <imbrandon> hrm
[20:31] <imbrandon> i wish pitti was on
[20:31] <ScottK> If it takes SRUing multiple packages to get there, that's a developer's detail.
[20:31] <ScottK> imbrandon: In any case it needs fixing in Hardy, so the work has to be done either way.
[20:31] <imbrandon> ScottK: very true, the next thing would actualy getting XEmbed working though
[20:31] <cheguevara> but then is the available patch gonna work on all version of kdebase (as in from dapper to gutsy)
[20:31] <cheguevara> yeah
[20:31] <nixternal> which I think is being worked on iirc
[20:32] <ScottK> nixternal: For KDE3?
[20:32] <nixternal> so I thought I heard, yes
[20:32] <imbrandon> ScottK: right but the SRU for dapper --> gutsy will have us burned if its not pushed soon, how quick can we make this happen ?
[20:32] <ScottK> Dunno.
[20:32] <nixternal> ScottK: always great to ask the Mandriva devs or the openSUSE devs
[20:32]  * ScottK knows zip about programming KDE stuff, I just package some of it.
[20:32] <imbrandon> cheguevara: it could be adapted
[20:32] <nixternal> they typically work on that hardcore stuff anyways...as I am sure openSUSE is facing it with their dev release right now
[20:33] <cheguevara> i've seen a novell bug about it
[20:33] <imbrandon> nixternal / ScottK : can you all keep an eye out for a upstream konq patch ( as isolated as possible so it can go all the way to dapper )
[20:33] <imbrandon> cheguevara: yes there is even upstream kde bugs for it
[20:34] <cheguevara> the patch is quiet huge
[20:34] <imbrandon> nixternal / ScottK : and let me know if you find something , i'll check other alternatives
[20:34] <imbrandon> cheguevara: there is no patch as of yet iirc, i just looked 10 minutes ago
[20:34] <cheguevara> huh
[20:34] <nixternal> imbrandon: I will check around today and see if I can get something for you
[20:34] <cheguevara> i've seen it
[20:35] <cheguevara> unless i was on crack :P
[20:35] <imbrandon> cheguevara: http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=153832
[20:35] <ubotu> KDE bug 153832 in nspluginviewer "nspluginviewer crash in konqueror with adobe flash 9.0 r115" [Crash,New]
[20:35] <imbrandon> no patch
[20:36] <cheguevara> yeah not there
[20:36] <cheguevara> hold on
[20:36] <imbrandon> cheguevara: if its from elsewhere its likely not trimed down to only the needed code
[20:37] <lovre> hi al
[20:38] <cheguevara> fount it
[20:38] <imbrandon> linky?
[20:38] <cheguevara> http://pastebin.ca/raw/816481
[20:38] <cheguevara> as i sai
[20:38] <lovre> i was just doing an update in adept manager, when my X suddenly restarted. I couldnt log in after that. When i type in my password the screen goes black for a second but then goes back to login screen again. So i cant login atm. (on win atm)
[20:38] <cheguevara> *said
[20:38] <cheguevara> its not trivial
[20:39] <imbrandon> where did that pastbin come from ?
[20:39] <cheguevara> novell
[20:39] <imbrandon> link please
[20:39] <cheguevara> https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=348088
[20:39] <ubotu> Novell bug 348088 in KDE "[Fix_is_Ready:10.1,10.2,10.3]Support for latest Flash plugin" [Major,New]
[20:39] <imbrandon> thanks
[20:39] <cheguevara> no idea why i put it in pastebin lol
[20:39] <nixternal> heh, told ya novell/suse had a fix :)
[20:40] <nixternal> it was either them or Mandrake who fixed the last flash plugin/ndisviewer issues
[20:42] <nixternal> why does kdelibs5-dev have to install kde4base, kcontrol and more? are their some messed up deps in the package?
[20:43] <ScottK> cheguevara: Thanks for finding that.
[20:43] <cheguevara> ScottK, np
[20:44] <imbrandon> cool, ok i'll build up some packages and such with this , this evening
[20:44] <cheguevara> depending if you have time you may want to wait a day or 2 to see if the patch is deff final
[20:44] <imbrandon> thanks cheguevara for the legwork
[20:45] <imbrandon> cheguevara: this is a few days long process so i'll keep an eye on it
[20:45] <cheguevara> kk :P
[20:46] <cheguevara> nixternal, did ktorrent build fine?
[20:47] <nixternal> yes
[20:47] <nixternal> but I can't debuild the damn thing cuz the stupid chroot has issues with dbus, and kdelibs5 wants to depend on kdebase stuff, which totally blows my mind
[20:48] <cheguevara> oh i see you acked it
[20:48] <cheguevara> nice :P
[20:48] <cheguevara> need one more now
[20:49] <cheguevara> i think i'll start working on the next one for now
[20:49] <cheguevara> kmldonkey-3.97.0.tar.bz2
[20:49] <smcintyre> Ok
[20:49] <cheguevara> yes i love p2p :P
[20:49] <smcintyre> rebooting to windows
[20:50] <smcintyre>  and trying to figure out why Kubuntu can't shut down the computer
[21:43] <cheguevara> http://ktown.kde.org/~coolo/yast.png
[21:43] <cheguevara> meow
[21:43] <cheguevara> that looks nice
[21:58] <iRon> cheguevara: this diagonal stripes tilt my head :)
[22:01] <smcintyre> anyone ever had failed to reset NO_REBOOT flag, reboot disabled by hardware ?
[22:02] <cheguevara> iRon :)
[22:03] <cheguevara> iRon, hows the coding going :P
[22:03] <iRon> cheguevara: in a day-two i'll give you a patch :)
[22:03] <cheguevara> oh nice
[22:04] <iRon> cheguevara: now i'm playing with IDE tools.. i've imported all kdebase in NetBeans :-)
[22:04]  * smcintyre jumps on Hobbsee
[22:04] <iRon> cheguevara: looks good
[22:04] <apachelogger> re
[22:04] <cheguevara> wb apachelogger
[22:04] <apachelogger> cheguevara: lets get to work :P
[22:04] <apachelogger> thx
[22:04] <cheguevara> lets :P
[22:04] <cheguevara> i got an ack from nixternal
[22:05] <Hobbsee> hiya here too!
[22:05] <smcintyre> :-)
[22:05]  * smcintyre swarms
[22:05]  * apachelogger fires up amarok
[22:05] <cheguevara> amarok 2?
[22:05] <cheguevara> :P
[22:05] <apachelogger> of course :P
[22:16] <apachelogger> cheguevara: New: ktorrent-kde4 3.97.0-0ubuntu1 (source)
[22:16] <apachelogger> :D
[22:16] <apachelogger> cheguevara: thanks for packaging
[22:16] <cheguevara> w00t
[22:16] <cheguevara> next :P
[22:21] <apachelogger> cheguevara: well, aren't there any other extragear apps? ;-)
[22:21] <apachelogger> also kde-apps might be a good idea to have a look at
[22:21] <apachelogger> and of course the needs-packaging bugs
[22:21] <cheguevara> yeah i am doing kmldonkey now
[22:21] <cheguevara> meant next as in, i am moving on, not as in give me :P
[22:21] <apachelogger> ^_^
[22:23]  * apachelogger does upgrade tastymenu
[22:23] <nixternal> jeesh, getting kdm4 setup by building from svn is a pita
[22:25] <cheguevara> :P
[22:27] <cheguevara> hmmm i wonder why the current ubuntu mldonkey recomends mldonkey and not depends
[22:27] <cheguevara> *ubuntu kmldonkey
[22:27] <cheguevara> whats the point of having the interface without the backend
[22:28] <apachelogger> maybe kmldonkey does more than just mldonkey
[22:28] <cheguevara> Description: KDE GUI for MLDonkey
[22:28] <cheguevara>  This package provides a GUI for MLDonkey and integrates MLDonkey into
[22:28] <cheguevara>  the KDE framework.
[22:28] <apachelogger> *shrug*
[22:28] <cheguevara> i mean you can start the GUI without mldonkey yeah
[22:28] <cheguevara> but it'll be so useless :P
[22:30] <cheguevara> hmm how come ark-kde4 is still 3.96
[22:35] <nixternal> w00t!
[22:35] <nixternal> kde4 full fledged system up and running
[22:36] <cheguevara> nice :)
[22:38] <nixternal> it is a pain taking an ubuntu headless/server box and installing everything you need in order for this to work
[22:39] <nosrednaekim> nixternal: same here:D
[22:42] <nixternal> nosrednaekim: did you get kdm working for kde4 on a headless box yet? it was a pain to track, but easy once I was done
[22:42] <Riddell> Hobbsee: could you up the priority of kdebase-kde4/4:3.97.0-1ubuntu4
[22:42] <apachelogger> nixternal: you have time to revu a new upstream release?
[22:42] <nixternal> apachelogger: sure
[22:42] <nosrednaekim> nixternal: oh.. not :D
[22:42] <apachelogger> nixternal: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=tastymenu
[22:42] <nixternal> I can't believe nobody has packaged that yet for us
[22:43] <Riddell> cheguevara: do you have a patch for startkde?
[22:43] <nixternal> tastymenu rocks...way better than kickwelooklikevistasstartmenu
[22:43] <Riddell> imbrandon: you asked after me?
[22:43] <apachelogger> ^_^
[22:43] <apachelogger> nixternal: I find it kinda geeky ;-)
[22:43] <cheguevara> Riddell, i know what lines to replace :P, do you want me to get you a diff -u though
[22:43] <nixternal> apachelogger: I use it on my foresight dev box...it is nice
[22:43] <apachelogger> but really, I don't use menus enough that I would care
[22:43] <Riddell> cheguevara: that would be best
[22:43] <cheguevara> kk give me 5
[22:44] <nixternal> oops, accidentally removed kdesdk-scripts :)
[22:45] <nixternal> gimme back my makeobj
[22:45] <apachelogger> hm
[22:45] <apachelogger> cheguevara: patch for using startkde(4)?
[22:46] <cheguevara> yar
[22:46] <cheguevara> to make it work on sh != bash
[22:46] <apachelogger> ah, okay :)
[22:46] <cheguevara> like most of ubuntu users will have
[22:47] <nixternal> oh, btw
[22:47] <nixternal> I am using the startkde script from kdesvn on a box that is using bash
[22:47] <nixternal> what issue am I supposed to see
[22:47] <nixternal> on my new kde4 box, I didn't switch to bash
[22:47] <nixternal> so it is still ubuntu default (dash)
[22:48] <cheguevara> if you don't have ~/.kde4
[22:48] <cheguevara> startkde will attempt to source a file
[22:48] <cheguevara> that doesn't exist without testing if it exists first
[22:48] <cheguevara> since it doesn't the script dies
[22:48] <cheguevara> .kde/share/config/startupconfig
[22:48] <cheguevara> is the file
[22:48] <nixternal> hrmm...i didn't have that problem, and I just nixed my ~/.kde4
[22:49] <cheguevara> i did and 2 other users in the lp bug report
[22:49] <nixternal> hrmm
[22:51] <cheguevara> Riddell: http://pastebin.ca/816715
[22:55] <nixternal> apachelogger: added comment, there is a lot of missing items that need to be installed that aren't
[22:55] <apachelogger> actually
[22:55] <apachelogger> I think your system is b0rked
[22:55] <apachelogger> that are _all_ files
[22:55] <cheguevara> :P
[22:56] <apachelogger> hm
[22:56] <apachelogger> nixternal: apparently dh_install doesn't work that well if cdbs is used
[22:56] <nixternal> always works for me
[22:57] <nixternal> I use nothing but cdbs
[22:57] <apachelogger> have a look at the deb, all files that are claimed to not being installed are actually in there -.-
[22:57] <apachelogger> nixternal: so we are back at 'your system is b0rked' :-P
[22:58] <nixternal> ya
[22:58] <nixternal> cuz it installed and I am using it
[22:59] <apachelogger> well, something very strange is going on with tastymenu, cdbs and dh_install's --list-missing
[23:01] <nixternal> it is something funky...but the package is otherwise good, it builds fine, and it works as it should
[23:01] <cheguevara> brb shop
[23:01] <apachelogger> nixternal: ok, I'll upload, thanks for revuing :)
[23:11] <mhb> have you ever had the feeling that desktop-environment distros are really limited in some ways?
[23:11] <mhb> what I mean is - we're doing a KDE distro, which is great and cool and stuff, but we're pretty much stuck with their software even if there was a better alternative.
[23:12] <Hobbsee> Riddell: done.  and btw, i don't need the version number, the script just uses the latest one
[23:12]  * Hobbsee just needs to know what, and where it is.
[23:12] <mhb> Example: Firefox is very well known by the common users, but we cannot ship it, because it's not KDE.
[23:12] <Hobbsee> mhb: yes, often.  firefox vs konq.
[23:12] <mhb> Or another one: KDM is kind of too slow to my liking, but we're stuck with it, there's no other KDE desktop manager.
[23:13] <nosrednaekim> and KDM doesn't have the bullet-proof X capability
[23:14] <mhb> I think by inspiring with the "monolitic" structure of other, well-known operating systems, we have moved from some of the UNIX principles.
[23:15] <mhb> having simple, fast tools that can be replaced easily.
[23:16] <mhb> because only a fool would believe that KDE tools are always the best.
[23:16] <mhb> they aren't. Many of them are great, though.
[23:18] <mhb> it's bad practice when an application depends on so many libraries that it's impossible to install it without downloading 100MBs of dependencies.
[23:20] <mhb> man, I so dislike it when there's noone around to disagree with me :o)
[23:22] <ardchoille> lol
[23:22] <ardchoille> mhb: I disagree, I quite like it when no one's around to disagree
[23:27] <apachelogger> mhb: meh, all wrong
[23:27] <apachelogger> we need heavily integrated solution
[23:27] <apachelogger> since that is what usability is all about
[23:27] <apachelogger> control appearance in one place, so everything looks similiar
[23:28] <apachelogger> get applications to interact
[23:28] <apachelogger> fast and relieable
[23:29] <apachelogger> that's why the originial unix concept is not 100% applieable to today's graphical bling bling desktop systems
[23:29] <apachelogger> of course for certain tasks you don't need that
[23:29] <apachelogger> like playing a video
[23:29] <apachelogger> you can't do very much with videos beside watching them
[23:30] <apachelogger> so a video player can just be a video playback area some playback control buttons and some kind of dialog to open files
[23:30] <mhb> apachelogger: do you need it for writing in a console?
[23:30] <apachelogger> mhb: enought disagreeness? :P
[23:30] <mhb> apachelogger: for logging in?
[23:31] <apachelogger> a user does not write in a console
[23:31] <apachelogger> and
[23:31] <apachelogger> usability starts at the login
[23:31] <nosrednaekim> usability starts before the login
[23:31] <apachelogger> some people say at the pc case, but really, not much to be done there :P
[23:31] <nosrednaekim> it starts at the pressing of the power button
[23:32] <mhb> apachelogger: so you think there should even be some "kusplash" with KDE dependencies? Or "Kgrub"? :D
[23:32] <apachelogger> nosrednaekim: now, you don't need kdelibs for booting probably :P
[23:32] <nosrednaekim> apachelogger: we should!
[23:32] <apachelogger> mhb: nope
[23:32] <nosrednaekim> XD
[23:32] <apachelogger> a user doesn't want to see a boot manager
[23:32] <apachelogger> in fact
[23:32] <apachelogger> a user doesn't want to see a machine booting
[23:33] <apachelogger> a user wants it to be -> power -> light -> desktop
[23:33] <mhb> indeed
[23:33] <mhb> I don't see a point where KDE could achieve that.
[23:33] <apachelogger> that's why no boot app depends on kde :P
[23:34] <mhb> it's too bloated at this point... perhaps GNOME is more memory intensive, but Kubuntu wins the award of "slowest loading time of any Ubuntu".
[23:34] <apachelogger> well
[23:34] <apachelogger> kdm is dead slow
[23:34] <apachelogger> no doubt on that
[23:34] <cheguevara> kde 4 loads quiet quick
[23:34] <mhb> even the startup is real slow.
[23:34] <nosrednaekim> mhb: I bypass KDM, auto login.
[23:34] <apachelogger> nosrednaekim: that still loads kdm
[23:35] <nosrednaekim> well, I have a usable desktop in 45 seconds, on a laptop.
[23:35] <mhb> nosrednaekim: which is 42 more than I'd want from a good system.
[23:36] <nixternal> ya, KDE 4 loads instantly for me
[23:37] <mhb> it sure doesn't here.
[23:37] <nixternal> I know what mhb means about KDE 3 loading slow though..it is really all of the start up apps
[23:37] <nixternal> I hit the power button, and in less than 15 seconds I am at the desktop
[23:37] <nixternal> unless of course I am not paying attention when kdm pops up :)
[23:38] <mhb> but I didn't want to start a heated discussion about KDE's speed.
[23:39] <mhb> apachelogger: I am using Firefox in Kubuntu, and I don't think it looks out of place.
[23:39] <mhb> apachelogger: I am sure you can't dcop from it or have kparts in it, but who needs that?
[23:39] <apachelogger> hm
[23:39] <apachelogger> what happens if you click a pdf?
[23:39] <mhb> I sure don't, and I have more requirements on my browser than my 10-year-old sister.
[23:39] <apachelogger> will it star tkdpf?
[23:40] <mhb> apachelogger: no, I guess because I also have the whole ubuntu-desktop here.
[23:41] <mhb> apachelogger: you're saying that the control settings of all apps should be centralized.
[23:41] <mhb> is that a conflict with having totally independent apps?
[23:41] <apachelogger> nope
[23:41] <apachelogger> but
[23:41] <mhb> we can just write a control center that parses configuration files, and make the apps understand the text files. that's kind of UNIX-like to me.
[23:41] <apachelogger> on the one hand you're complaining about KDE being slow on the other hand you're saying kubuntu should ship with firefox as default browser which starts deadly slow due to the loading of gtk libs
[23:42] <mhb> apachelogger: did you notice my comment that I do NOT want to raise the discussion about speed?
[23:42] <mhb> 00:38 < mhb> but I didn't want to start a heated discussion about KDE's speed.
[23:42] <apachelogger> mhb: well, it is about speed :P
[23:42] <cheguevara> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=639243
[23:42] <apachelogger> as I sayd a user expects instant (re)action
[23:42] <cheguevara> meh gnome is copying ke
[23:42] <cheguevara> *kde
[23:42] <mhb> no, it's about being able to replace things.
[23:43] <apachelogger> the longer it takes the worse it appears to the user
[23:43] <mhb> by having one pack of libs we effectively eliminate competition.
[23:43] <nosrednaekim> cheguevara: nothin new about that.
[23:43] <mhb> in a competitive world, when someone is offering you a better service, you take it.
[23:44] <mhb> but now, you cannot, because that service is not KDE enough.
[23:44] <mhb> so you stick with your slow kdm.
[23:44] <mhb> just for the sake of it being KDE.
[23:44] <apachelogger> well
[23:44] <apachelogger> so we use gdm
[23:44] <apachelogger> which uses gtklibs
[23:44] <apachelogger> so we need to qt on kde startup
[23:44] <apachelogger> which takes ages again
[23:44] <nixternal> mhb: you are correct about a better service and taking it...but are there any better services out there?
[23:44] <mhb> apachelogger: GTK/GNOME is the same PITA as Qt/KDE.
[23:44] <apachelogger> so, we can have slow-fast or fast-slow
[23:45] <nixternal> firefox isn't better imho, I actually hate everything Mozilla
[23:45] <apachelogger> webkit ftw :D
[23:45] <nixternal> yay webkit!
[23:45] <nixternal> hehe
[23:45] <mhb> konqueror's not the worst situation, but you have to admit Firefox is well known and almost everyone I know uses it.
[23:45] <mhb> by everyone I mean Windows users.
[23:46] <apachelogger> so?
[23:46] <nixternal> I use IE7 on Windows, it is faster than FF on Windows (mainly because of the integration)
[23:46] <apachelogger> we should do a ready to go emulation wizard for ms office
[23:46] <nixternal> or I use safari
[23:46] <apachelogger> everyone I know is using that one
[23:47] <mhb> apachelogger: the problem is, when we stick to one big desktop environment, we are eliminating competition
[23:47] <mhb> you don't have that with say shells
[23:47] <mhb> you can run bash, dash, csh, ksh, whatever you like.
[23:47] <mhb> and you don't have to add a 50MB library for each one, at least I think so.
[23:48] <apachelogger> ehm
[23:48] <apachelogger> you can't really compare an DE to a shell
[23:49] <mhb> apachelogger: well, I kind of can
[23:49] <mhb> apachelogger: we're not choosing apps because they're good, but because they're KDE.
[23:49] <mhb> and I find that incorrect.
[23:50] <txwikinger> browser wars?
[23:51] <mhb> txwikinger: not browser.
[23:51] <mhb> txwikinger: desktop manager, other apps, too.
[23:51] <apachelogger> mhb: because kubuntu is supposed to be KDE :P
[23:51]  * txwikinger has a 60's flashback... make peace not war ;)
[23:51] <apachelogger> kinda the purpose
[23:52] <nixternal> if shells were so great, we wouldn't have to patch startkde for kde4 because we use dash
[23:54] <mhb> apachelogger: right, that's the fault of having KDE and GNOME.
[23:54] <mhb> apachelogger: we're not doing a distribution that is good, but that which is KDE.
[23:54] <nixternal> it is still impressive though that with KDE or Gnome, you not only get an OS and a DE, but you all of the software as well, on a single CD, and not a DVD like our competitors
[23:54] <txwikinger> The only thing I am missing in Konqueror is the wysiwyg editor for html etc.
[23:54] <apachelogger> I think we should just all use mono/gtk
[23:55] <daskreech> Wheee
[23:55] <nixternal> mono hell no
[23:55] <daskreech> KubuntuDE4
[23:55] <apachelogger> defined by MS, hence nothing to discuss about
[23:55] <apachelogger> and totally fixed
[23:55] <mhb> nixternal: right, and distros that don't use a DE and focus on having separate apps usually fit in 300MBs.
[23:55] <apachelogger> relieable
[23:55] <daskreech> apachelogger: like Samba?
[23:55] <apachelogger> and everyone can use it then
[23:55] <nixternal> mhb: umm, Slax with KDE is around 200MB and DSL fits on a 128MB stick and has flux :)
[23:55] <nixternal> now that rawks
[23:55] <apachelogger> daskreech: smb is defined by MS, not MS fault if none gets it implemented right
[23:56] <txwikinger> well.. m$ is violating court order to publish the protocol
[23:56] <mhb> I understand that we *have to* use KDE apps because we're a KDE distro.
[23:58] <nixternal> we use OO.o and not KOffice...so that argument doesn't really stand tall
[23:58] <mhb> the problem was made in the beginning. Instead of having a huge set of small, fast, lightweight single-purpose apps, we have a KDE app and a GNOME app for everything.
[23:59] <nixternal> and that would be gnome's fault, letting the fsf get their panties in a bundle
[23:59] <daskreech> mhb: Who says we don't have a huge set of small lightweight apps?
[23:59] <mhb> daskreech: in Kubuntu? I do.


[20:31] <net0ver> selamlar
[21:48] <net0ver> Current Style: Simplified Light — Environment: Light mode in Textual, system wide aqua, and light mode on macOS Sierra
[21:48] <net0ver> Current Style: Simplified Light — Environment: Light mode in Textual, system wide aqua, and light mode on macOS Sierra


[07:20] <tjaalton> chrisccoulson: so we are not sticking to the LTM-versions of firefox/tbird?
[07:20] <tjaalton> for precise
[07:50] <jbicha> tjaalton: last time I talked to chrisccoulson he said no, everyone's on the Rapid Release train
[07:51] <jbicha> I'm sure it makes managing the updates easier
[08:02] <BigWhale> suddenly icons in Launcher are big again and I can't make them smaller... :'(
[08:06] <BigWhale> oh, I know why ... I'm running unity-2d!
[08:09] <BigWhale> because unity didn't install!
[08:09] <BigWhale> oooh
[08:17] <tjaalton> jbicha: ok.. it's just that I've lost all the plugins _again_
[08:17] <tjaalton> enigmail, lightning etc
[08:18] <tjaalton> was fun being able to use them for a week :)