[01:08] <rww> Pici: yes. no idea how. it is now fixed.
[01:27] <Pici> rww: thanks, I was wondering if it was on purpose or not. methinks not.
[05:32] <Unit193> !isitout
[16:28] <DJones> Is WUBI still included in the desktop iso?
[16:33] <DJones> Just downloading one to have a look at 14.04,but multiple times we get people saying don't use it, its junk and won't be supported, but if its still included, #ubuntu users need tobe aware that it is included and can be supported, even if the majority of people do think its rubbish
[16:33] <DJones> And if it doesn't work reliably, why is it still included
[16:34] <k1l_> wubi should just be nuked, imho. if its working its still bundled to windows. it was concept as an easy testing but people tend to use it instead a native install and it will break an it will be ubuntus fault.
[16:35] <DJones> Couldn''t agree more with the nuke idea, but if Canonical & devs keep including it, users need to be aware that it supported
[16:36] <k1l_> its still included. at least in the ubuntu next (mir and unity8) iso i got lying here
[17:53] <PottyTheShitter> YOU ARE ONLY ONE HEARTBEAT AWAY FROM ETERNAL TORMENT
[17:53] <PottyTheShitter> Luke 12:4-5; Luke 13:3
[17:55] <PottyTheShitter> YOU ARE ONLY ONE HEARTBEAT AWAY FROM ETERNAL TORMENT LUKE 12:4-5; LUKE 13:3
[17:55] <DJones> I'm sure God will forgive you your sins, although I suspect you'll need to say multiple Hail Mary's to atone for your own sin
[17:55] <DJones> After all, you're taught to love your neighbour, not abuse the,
[17:56] <DJones> them
[17:56] <PottyTheShitter> DJones, sorry i am not a catholic
[17:56] <DJones> You don't appear to be Christian either given the abuse you give out
[17:57] <PottyTheShitter> did jesus look "christian" for giving his woes outin matthew 23? or how about cursing a fig tree? or how about paul when he wishes that some people would cut there nuts off?
[17:58] <PottyTheShitter> most christians are false
[17:58] <DJones> But all Christians are called to love their neighbour, and to love their enemy, you can't do that by abusing people you don't like
[17:59] <PottyTheShitter> im not abusing
[17:59] <PottyTheShitter> Therefore, go and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.
[17:59] <PottyTheShitter>  Teach these new disciples to obey all the commands I have given you. And be sure of this: I am with you always, even to the end of the age."
[17:59] <PottyTheShitter>  Matthew 28:19-20
[18:00] <elky> i thought i already told you that we're over
[18:01] <DJones> John 13:34 Enough said
[18:01] <DJones> But, you won't know that as you're not a Christian
[18:01] <PottyTheShitter> yes and its showing love that if you dont repent you will go to hell
[18:02] <PottyTheShitter> DJones, you must be an athiest anyways
[18:02] <DJones> PottyTheShitter: You couldn't be further from the truth
[18:02] <PottyTheShitter> DJones, show me where i am wrong
[18:03] <PottyTheShitter> do you hail judge not?
[18:04] <DJones> Thats easy, you don't show love to neighbours or enemies, you just abuse them, your method may have worked for the old testemant before Christ's birth, but after that, you've lost the message
[18:04] <PottyTheShitter> that is showing love
[20:04] <genii> @comment 644565 expire 3M
[20:04] <genii> @comment 64465 expire 3M
[20:04] <genii> Meh
[20:05]  * genii makes more coffee
[20:06] <Unit193> genii: If you aren't setting a comment too, @duration banid time
[20:06] <genii> Unit193: Aaah, thanks
[20:07] <genii> @duration 64465 3M
[20:07] <Unit193> Sure.
[20:07] <genii> Tired and day seems to never end
[20:30] <Jordan_U> @comment 64568 Probably a spam bot that makes autogenerated comments to avoid automated spam filtering. Made nonsense comments with words veguely related to #ubuntu's topic, and linked to some website seemingly trying to sell artificial sweeteners, 30 days
[20:35] <genii> What a weird thing to try and flog off on IRC
[20:36] <Jordan_U> Indeed.
[22:07] <k1l_> Jordan_U: i already kicked him and gave him the guidelines. he is trolling on purpose
[22:07] <Jordan_U> k1l_: Understood.
[23:05] <Freen0deAdmin> whats up homies
[23:05] <rww> evening Freen0deAdmin
[23:05] <Freen0deAdmin> how we all doing tonight?
[23:05] <rww> Pretty well. You?
[23:06] <Freen0deAdmin> fineeeee
[23:06] <rww> good good
[23:39] <Freen0deAdmin> hello everyone
[23:53] <Jordan_U> Lakers_business: Hi. How can we help you?
[23:54] <Freen0deAdmin> Lakers_business, yes what can we help you with?
[23:54] <Freen0deAdmin> tomaw, anything we can help you with?
[23:55] <Freen0deAdmin> ha
[23:55] <tomaw> let's try a bigger stick


[03:35] <geser> keescook: could you sponsor bug #138149? It includes a fix for CVE-2007-1888.
[03:35] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 138149 in sqlite "[Fake sync]  sqlite (2.8.17-2.1build1) from Debian unstable" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/138149
[07:53] <cjwatson> aquo: you don't need to install either manually; just use whichever the g++ version you're using depends on
[10:12] <Amaranth> wow i never knew the upgrade tool told you about packages that have moved to universe
[10:12] <Amaranth> that's a nice touch
[11:02] <Kopfgeldjaeger> hi!
[11:36] <stdin> hmm, I need some advice: how would you split a source-package in to more than one binary-package when each binary-package is just compiled differently. ie: the only difference is the libs they are compiled against
[11:37] <stdin> not sure how well I explained it there :p
[11:40] <Fujitsu> stdin: Is this about the Qt[34] /KDE variants bug that I saw earlier?
[11:40] <stdin> it is :)
[11:41] <Fujitsu> I ran away quickly.
[11:42] <Amaranth> stdin: look at totem
[11:43] <Amaranth> stdin: it builds twice, once against xine, once against gstreamer
[11:43] <stdin> hmm, I'll go have a look. thanks
[11:45] <geser> doko: something got wrong with your vectormath package: libvectormath-dev depends on libvectormath1 which doesn't exist
[01:30] <Hobbsee> hmmm.   sabdfl is emailing us all again.  scary.
[01:31] <sabdfl> watching quietly here, too ;-)
[01:31] <sabdfl> how are you, Hobbsee?
[01:32] <Hobbsee> arg!  he's here!
[01:32] <geser> Hi Hobbsee, sabdfl
[01:32] <sabdfl> hey geser, glad to hear it Hobbsee!
[01:32] <Hobbsee> sabdfl: i didnt even kill anyone :P
[01:33] <sabdfl> my kind of gal
[01:33] <pygi> Hobbsee, your not that scary, you just pretend to be =)
[01:33] <zul_> Hobbsee is always scarey
[01:33] <Hobbsee> pygi: oh, i can be scary.
[01:33] <pygi> Hobbsee, nop :)
[01:34] <Hobbsee> sabdfl: it seems to be teh weekend, why are you here?
[01:34] <asisak> Hobbsee: What do you work that eventually involves killing people?
[01:34] <Hobbsee> asisak: killing customers.  not staff.  usually.
[01:34] <jdstrand> mdz: are you seeing odd behavior with your brightness controls and defaults on your laptop?  (I believe we have the same laptop)
[01:34] <Hobbsee> asisak: at a supermarket
[01:35] <Hobbsee> oh yay, cprov is back!
[01:36] <sabdfl> jdstrand: i see that on my X60
[01:36] <jdstrand> I saw #81407, but it is all over the place (people talking about different symptoms, etc)
[01:37] <jdstrand> sabdfl: I have a T42
[01:37] <jdstrand> bug 81407
[01:37] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 81407 in gnome-power-manager "[Feisty]  Thinkpad (all models) LCD brightness control cycles between lowest settings only" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/81407
[01:37] <mjg59> I'm working on it
[01:37] <sabdfl> hey mjg59
[01:37] <mjg59> hal is just broken here
[01:37] <jdstrand> mjg59: this is for gutsy?
[01:38] <\sh> nice...I thought my t43 is broken, so I replaced it with a new one *lol*
[01:38] <mjg59> Yes
[01:38] <jdstrand> mjg59: cool
[01:40] <jdstrand> mjg59: another symptom I have is on login it defaults to the lowest brightness.  after a little while things 'settle down' and I can adjust it properly (that is, until g-p-m kicks in, and its reset to the lowest)
[01:40] <jdstrand> mjg59: I'm guessing its all related?
[01:41] <sladen> somewhere I was in the middle of killing thinkpad-keys and replacing it with acpi-support events
[01:41] <jdstrand> mjg59: note that gdm displays the proper brightness
[01:41] <sladen> which should do with the CPU issue and may deal with the brightness weirdness at 100%
[01:42] <mjg59> jdstrand: Pretty much
[01:43] <mjg59> gpm is getting bogus answers from hal because it's not standardised whether stuff sends uints or ints
[01:43] <jdstrand> hey cool, it just went to its lowest brightness as I read your response
[01:43] <jdstrand> mjg59: ah.  is there a bug I can subscribe to?
[01:43] <jdstrand> if its convenient
[01:49] <jdstrand> I ask cause there are a bunch of seemingly related reports, and I don't know which you are actively updating
[01:53] <mjg59> I was mostly ignoring them because a huge number of people have started reporting entirely unrelated issues in the same bugs
[01:53] <mjg59> I'll get it to the point where it should work, then see whether there's still anyone complaining :)
[01:53] <jdstrand> yes-- I saw that too.  Well knowing someone is working on it is ok by me.  Thanks!
[02:15] <Amaranth> mjg59: dude that happens to a lot of the compiz bugs
[02:15] <Amaranth> someone reports a problem and 5 people leave comments with completely different problems
[02:18] <StevenK> Amaranth: I hate that. "Oh, that isn't my problem at all - this is my problem" in a bug report.
[02:19] <lucky_lucas> Hi, every one, I just read that the backlight issue is on the track (happy), I would like to konw what is the state of the compiz/X crash ?
[02:19] <lucky_lucas> I reported a bug but it was somehow unusable
[02:20] <lucky_lucas> bryce seems to be aware and I saw on the xorg maiing list they know that xorg 7.3 crashes with compiz but don't know if any fixes is planned
[02:34] <Amaranth> lucky_lucas: nvidia?
[02:51] <lucky_lucas> Amaranth: both of them
[02:52] <lucky_lucas> I experience a total freeze on my t43p ati firegl with ati 6.7.192 driver and on the  desktop with nvidia driver
[02:52] <Amaranth> oh, the only known problem is the nvidia one, afaik
[02:53] <lucky_lucas> I've read on the xorg mailing list that they are aware of crashes with compiz and x
[02:54] <lucky_lucas> I don't know if it's a "cross driver " issue
[02:56] <lucky_lucas> Therre is something I don't understand in the doc for debbuging xorg, I'm connected through ssh but once I attach gdb to X, it freeze the desktop
[02:56] <lucky_lucas> so I type cont and X goes ok, but I don't have any feedback
[04:05] <Hobbsee> greetings, jono
[04:06] <jono> heya Hobbsee
[04:07] <Hobbsee> bah.
[05:45] <jdstrand> mjg59: I just upgraded the new hal and rebooted.  _very_ preliminary testing shows the screen brightness on my laptop is working fine again
[05:48] <jdstrand> gdm still good, login has no brightness changing, brightness comes back to normal after screen blank
[05:48] <jdstrand> great job!  thanks :)
[05:55] <bSON> hi
[05:56] <bSON> will the dodge effect stay the default for ubuntu gutsy's compiz? it is annoying after a short while, way too much movement IMO
[05:57] <bSON> not the subtleness the default settings should have
[06:59] <bhale> on batter
[07:05] <jdong> is it just me, or is tracker a LOT more disk-intensive than beagle?
[07:13] <geser> I've seen other reporting it too
[07:15] <jdong> it causes like 5x the midnight-thrashing that I'd see with updatedb...
[07:33] <siretart> yes, it really drains notebook batteries like nothing
[07:34] <mekius> hey, after you login with gdm, somehow the X root window is being set to a brown color, what is controlling this?
[07:34] <mekius> before gdm starts up it is using the color i defined in the gdm.conf
[07:34] <mekius> but after the login and before the session starts i see brown
[07:38] <_StefanS_> hi there..
[07:39] <Amaranth> geser, jdong: Are you guys talking about tracker?
[07:39] <_StefanS_> I would appreciate if someone in here could review this comment fra Rizlaw : https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdebase/+bug/103401, it seems to be related some session stuff in gnome.
[07:39] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 103401 in kdebase "Reboot-Restart Button with classic LogOut Dialog (doUbuntuLogout=0) doesn't work" [Undecided,Fix released]
[07:39] <_StefanS_> it was reported wrong into a KDE related ticket.
[07:42] <Amaranth> _StefanS_: looks like he had a session saved or something
[07:42] <Amaranth> i dunno, i've never used that stuff because it basically never works right
[07:42] <_StefanS_> Amaranth: yes something like it, is it something you could comment on from a ubuntu kind of view ?
[07:42] <_StefanS_> Amaranth: oh. ok
[07:43] <_StefanS_> Amaranth: well it just seems odd to use ctrl+alt+backspace, doesn't it kill the X-server?
[07:43] <jdong> Amaranth: yeah, I'm talking about tracker
[07:43] <jdong> Amaranth: its memory/CPU footprint is impressive, but disk intensity leaves a lot to be desired.
[07:44] <jdong> Amaranth: if I didn't have good quality drives in this thing, I'd be concerned about life reduction.
[07:46] <Amaranth> jdong: oh?
[07:46] <Amaranth> it seems fine here
[07:47] <Amaranth> it stops trying to index if something is writing to the file it's indexing
[07:47] <jdong> Amaranth: hmm I might just have too much (several multi-GB bzr repos) in my home dir then... because it does about 25 minutes of thrashing per night.
[07:47] <Amaranth> per night?
[07:47] <jdong> yes.
[07:47] <jdong> per night
[07:47] <Amaranth> oh, i know why
[07:47] <Amaranth> it ran out of inotify watches
[07:47] <jdong> eep...
[07:48] <Amaranth> so it periodically crawls your filesystem manually
[07:48] <Amaranth> i thought it only did it when it first started
[07:48] <Amaranth> if you, say, triple the allowed inotify watches... :)
[07:49] <Amaranth> hopefully that's not a compile time thing but i have a feeling it is
[07:49] <jdong> what are the downsides of doing that, and how do I go about it?
[07:49] <Amaranth> (kernel compile time)
[07:49] <Amaranth> it's a possible DoS or something
[07:49] <Amaranth> i have no idea how to do that
[07:49] <jdong> ah
[07:49] <jdong> oh well minor issue....
[07:49] <Amaranth> i know rlove pushed really hard to get a high number in there
[07:50] <Amaranth> but didn't succeed, dunno if ubuntu changes it
[08:07] <tonyyarusso> cjwatson, pitti, keybuk: I see that https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/dm-crypt (solution to bug #39326) is still marked as Undefined/Drafting/Unknown, even though the technology has been available upstream for quite a while now.  Why is that, and do you have any estimate of a revised timeline for implementation?
[08:07] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 39326 in debian-installer "installer: dm-crypt support missing" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/39326
[10:41] <Kopfgeldjaeger> N8
[11:01] <stgraber> Seveas: Can you move ubotu from #ubuntu-iso to #ubuntu-testing ?
[11:03] <Seveas> @part #ubuntu-iso
[11:03] <ubotu> OK
[11:03] <Seveas> @join #ubuntu-testing
[11:03] <Seveas> stgraber, done :)
[11:04] <stgraber> Seveas: thanks


[00:57] <doctormo> Buuntu: Volunteers can only do so much and most of the people here already bare responsibilities with other groups. We've been trying to build structure and people slowly so we can grow.
[00:57] <doctormo> Buuntu: Would you like to help get the desktop course put together?
[00:58] <Buuntu> i'm not even on the team yet
[00:58] <Buuntu> i'm just eager to learn :)
[00:58] <Buuntu> doctormo: and what are the server courses?
[00:59] <Buuntu> doctormo: could i see some?  they might be useful to me
[00:59] <doctormo> Buuntu: Contributors need not be blessed or onointed, We're a pretty open group and if you want to learn you first have to decide which.
[00:59] <Buuntu> doctormo: which what?  group?
[00:59] <doctormo> pleia2: btw the full desktop plan is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/UbuntuDesktopTopics
[01:01] <Buuntu> doctormo: could i see the link to the server courses?
[01:01] <Buuntu> doctormo: or are they not ready?
[01:01] <Buuntu> doctormo: i could probably use some of that info.
[01:03] <doctormo> Buuntu: Sure, I've made 4 out of 10 of the classes so far.
[01:04] <Buuntu> doctormo: cool, are there any like advanced/intermediate level?
[01:04] <Buuntu> or are all of them mostly beginner
[01:04] <doctormo> http://doctormo.wordpress.com/2009/07/15/ubuntu-system-admin-class-command-line-basics/ http://doctormo.wordpress.com/2009/07/22/ubuntu-system-admin-class-local-computer/ http://doctormo.wordpress.com/2009/07/27/systems-administration-networking/ http://doctormo.wordpress.com/2009/08/06/systems-administration-package-management/
[01:05] <doctormo> Buuntu: So far, the first three are background material, but I don't skimp on details, so I push my student pretty hard with learning everything.
[01:07] <Buuntu> are they only supposed to be one page?
[01:08] <doctormo> Buuntu: No, their each an entire teaching resource.
[01:08] <Buuntu> doctormo: ah so they're for teaching, not learning?
[01:10] <doctormo> Buuntu: Well, technially they're for both. But providing resource for teachers is what each of those pages do, you _can_ learn from them too by following along the overview and then moving onto the practical.
[01:11] <doctormo> http://doctormo.wordpress.com/2009/07/07/ubuntu-loco-systems-admin-lessons-in-massachusetts/ <- I decided to add all the links to one page
[21:50] <pleia2> oh yeah, our meeting is in ~3 hours
[23:23] <Vantrax> hi all


[10:00] <xnox> mpt: do you want to be dialed into the session?!
[10:01] <mpt> xnox, does it involve me? I don't know anything about this redesign
[10:03] <xnox> mpt: ack. we got ivanka covering here =)
[10:04] <mpt> ok


[00:17] <wxl> jose, can i bug you again please? if you're tired of me i understand :)
[00:17] <wxl> i have too many damn accounts :)
[00:18] <wxl> aw jeez wrong channel on that last one. request for jose still stands :(
[00:19] <skellat> wxl: I am able to assist?
[00:19] <wxl> skellat: you may be able to. i've had this rt ticket lingering FOREVER to get us hosting for our loco. jose's helped a couple times to try to push it forward but nothing seems to be happening.
[00:20] <skellat> What's the number for it?
[00:20] <wxl> 1sa
[00:20] <wxl> 1s i mean
[00:20] <skellat> :-)
[00:20] <wxl> 25072
[00:21] <skellat> Okay
[00:21] <skellat> Let me see here
[00:21] <skellat> There's no vanguard at present
[00:21] <wxl> when i first started the ticket i didn't exactly realize it was a ticket system and included too many things in one mail so it's kind of a mess
[00:21] <wxl> tl;dr really all i need is oregon.ubuntu-us.org set up
[00:22] <wxl> skellat: vanguard?
[00:22] <wxl> i.e. owner?
[00:23] <skellat> Nobody is on watch duty over in the sysadmin channel
[00:23] <wxl> ah
[00:23] <wxl> well if you or anyone could do anything to facilitate this it would be great
[00:23] <wxl> i know that i'm going to get hounded by people at our irc meeting about how rt takes forever to respond
[00:24] <wxl> i've had people bugging me to set up hosting elsewhere and frankly i'd really like to keep it in the family as it were
[00:26] <skellat> Found the ticket and reading through it
[00:26]  * skellat is up to August and is trying to digest the stream of actions
[00:28] <wxl> it's really disgusting, skellat. and it's my fault. unfortunately there's a lot of confusion.
[00:28] <skellat> No problem
[00:28] <wxl> if i would have only known it was a ticket system :(
[00:29] <skellat> You may not be able to get an empty site
[00:29] <skellat> You may get a Drupal install to fiddle with
[00:29] <wxl> if that's what i'm forced with i can live i guess
[00:30] <wxl> i would like wordpress in there somehow, that's the only thing i'll say
[00:30] <skellat> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoHosting
[00:30] <skellat> Forum, wiki, or Drupal with oregon.ubuntu-us.org
[00:31] <skellat> I'd go with the Drupal option
[00:31] <wxl> indeed
[00:32] <skellat> Drupal isn't so bad
[00:32] <wxl> i don't know drupal all that well but as long as i can have people contribute to a "blog" of some kind and make an rss feed out of it, that's all i care about
[00:32] <skellat> After all, the White House uses it on www.whitehouse.gov
[00:32] <skellat> :-)
[00:32] <wxl> oh well, gee. :)
[00:32] <skellat> For what you're wanting, take a look at www.lisnews.org
[00:32] <skellat> That's probably what you want operationally
[00:33] <wxl> well any blog engine really
[00:33] <wxl> i *THINK* there is a such a thing in drupal
[00:33] <wxl> this is drupal?
[00:34] <skellat> www.lisnews.org is not as pretty as www.whitehouse.gov
[00:34] <skellat> But both utilize Drupal
[00:35] <wxl> ahh cool
[00:35] <wxl> that's what i want. i'll live
[00:35] <skellat> Okay
[00:35] <wxl> we have our own wiki and forum so no need for that garbage
[00:35] <wxl> so administration is all taken care of by canonical then?
[00:36] <skellat> You'll have things to play with on the Drupal site
[00:36] <skellat> It isn't that bad
[00:37] <wxl> well, do i handle updates and things like that?
[00:37] <skellat> They do stuff on the back-end
[00:37] <skellat> You get to fiddle with presentation stuff
[00:37] <wxl> great
[00:37] <wxl> that's a boon in my opinion
[00:38] <skellat> What was the old vanity domain for your LoCo?
[00:39] <wxl> ubuntu-oregon.org
[00:39] <wxl> which would be nice to have but someone's squatting on it now
[00:40] <wxl> bkerensa suggested i ask to have canonical do a cease and desist order which i kind of suggested in that ticket
[00:40] <wxl> but if we don't get that, i can live
[00:40] <nhaines> I suspect that is something that can be handled separately.
[00:41] <wxl> i agree but jose said if i made a separate ticket it would just inevitably get merged with that one
[00:41]  * wxl shrugs
[00:41] <wxl> i'll just make a new ticket and we'll see what happens
[00:41] <skellat> Please don't make a new ticket
[00:41] <wxl> oh ok
[00:41] <skellat> Wait for the spammage to show up in your inbox
[00:41] <wxl> hahah ok
[00:42] <skellat> I updated it to have actionable things that can be driven forward
[00:42] <skellat> However, come to think of it, we don't have a policy on vanity URLs for teams
[00:42] <skellat> Just small-c canonical URLs
[00:42] <wxl> yeah i hear you
[00:42] <wxl> i'm not too concerned about it
[00:43] <wxl> if it CAN happen, great. if it DOESN'T, oh well. :)
[00:43] <wxl> just as long as we have *A* website that we can control that will make a big difference
[00:44] <wxl> thank you much for the help
[00:44] <skellat> No problem
[00:44] <skellat> I'll leave further poking and prodding to jose
[00:44] <wxl> hehehe ok :)
[01:02] <jose> wxl: do not make a new ticket
[01:03] <jose> wxl: IS's got a lot of work right now, but I'll see what an I do
[01:03] <jose> can*
[01:06] <wxl> jose: will do
[01:06] <wxl> jose: i mean thank you sorry XD
[01:06] <jose> :P
[07:07] <dholbach> good morning


[02:35] <AngerOn> Howdy
[15:52] <emma_System76> Hey everyone!
[15:53] <pleia2> hi emma_System76, can you switch your nick to System76Chick so the bot knows who you are?
[15:53] <pleia2> and you'll also want to join #ubuntu-classroom-chat :)
[15:55] <pleia2> great
[15:58] <ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/04/18/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
[16:00] <System76Chick> Thank you for having me!
[16:00] <Cheri703> Welcome to our Career Days session!
[16:01] <Cheri703> I'm a bit early, sorry
[16:01] <Cheri703> Ok, now welcome! :D
[16:01] <Cheri703> bah, freenode clock =/= my clock :)
[16:01] <Cheri703> Alright, Thank you to System76Chick for her patience while we got this scheduled!
[16:02] <Cheri703> Today we have Emma, she is a media liaison for System76, and she's going to tell us about that and her experiences that brought her to the FOSS World.
[16:02] <Cheri703> Take it away!
[16:02] <System76Chick> Thank you for giving me the opportunity :)
[16:03] <System76Chick> I can start by talking about my background and what brought me into social media and open-source
[16:04] <System76Chick> I've been a journalist since I was 14, working for school and local newspapers throughout high school and college. After watching the decline of print journalism firsthand, I became interested in social media and reporting events on the internet. I joined every social network I could and began using the social networks to report and promote local businesses that I encountered while working for the newspaper
[16:04] <System76Chick> s. I established great relationships and became addicted to this new kind of reporting and staying connected with the businesses. I stayed with the newspaper industry for a few months after college, as a managing editor of a local paper. While I was working for the paper, I did promotional work for a company called Apex Movement, and it was the first time I witnessed viral growth through social media promot
[16:04] <System76Chick> ion. So I transitioned from the newspaper industry into marketing and social media. It was the best choice I ever made because I now I have the best of both worlds- reporting and social media.
[16:05] <System76Chick> I discovered the power of FOSS by using Wordpress.org, beginning in 2010. I developed the company intranet for a large corporation and created a place for the employees to come together as a community to share their daily work experiences. I produced 60 videos in a year and was acting as a reporter within the company, sharing laughs and positivity with the employees. It was all centered around a T-shirt. Th
[16:05] <System76Chick> e community I created as a result of bringing employees together on wordpress.org fueled the internal viral marketing campaign, which led to a Guinness World Record. Since we had to keep our intranet private for proprietary reasons, I had to do something that would get people talking. Guinness World Records and employee pranks became the motivation to spread the word of my “SMaffection” campaign, which
[16:05] <System76Chick> encouraged nearly every department in the company to purchase the T-shirt I designed. After accomplishing the campaign, I went on an adventure to work for a company operating on the foundation of open-source software. The strength of community truly appealed to me and I wanted to make it my career with no restrictions. The restrictions and guidelines I had to follow at the previous company I worked for put
[16:05] <System76Chick> limits to my success and I'm a total “sky is the limit” type of individual. I guess you could say that my work using Wordpress.org was what Jane Silber mentioned as a “stretch job.” So I had to keep going with the open-source pursuit where I wasn't limited to proprietary restrictions.
[16:06] <Cheri703> Forgot to mention!
[16:07] <Cheri703> Any questions that folks have, please ask in #ubuntu-classroom-chat with QUESTION: and we'll take them as we go or at the end. Thanks!
[16:09] <System76Chick> Discovering System76 and Ubuntu was the best thing that ever happened to me.
[16:09] <System76Chick> The strength of community to promote Ubuntu and the excitement within each subgroup sucked me in and I was hooked. I found System76 first, but the community page on System76.com and description of Ubuntu led me to  The Fridge, Ubuntu Planet, The wiki and my personal favorite- the Ubuntu-Women Project. I felt like I stumbled onto the world's best kept secret. Now I want to tell it to the world about it.
[16:10] <System76Chick> My daily work involves a lot of Ubuntu promotion, especially with our Loco efforts. We offer free stickers, which takes time to manage and coordinate all the other groups who send them out in other countries. After learning the ropes, Carl put me in charge of all the social networks and routed all the press inquiries my way. My day is full of diversity and adventure. It's AWESOME.
[16:11] <System76Chick> Carl is our CEO, by the way
[16:12] <System76Chick> He allows me to work on different computers every month and allows me to take time in the hardware room to learn more about computers in one day than I've learned throughout my whole life. It's a really fun place to be and I work with a great team of geeks. I just love it.
[16:14] <ClassBot> Cheri703 asked: Is there a particular "technical" area you're most interested in pursuing?
[16:15] <System76Chick> I mainly stick to the social media efforts but I'm starting to get back into video production for some of our new projects
[16:16] <System76Chick> I'm working on a series of how-to videos for 12.04 to help people transition from different OS
[16:17] <System76Chick> 12.04 is incredible. I'm using the keyboard less and I feel like I'm doing more work in a day
[16:18] <ClassBot> Cheri703 asked: How do you find the energy to maintain social media? I find it to be a different way of communicating that I haven't gotten the handle on yet.
[16:19] <System76Chick> I maintain my excitement for Ubuntu and System76 with every interaction, and people share their excitement with me every day so it's easy to keep up with it
[16:19] <System76Chick> I start my day by opening letters from fans, and it sets my mood for the whole day
[16:20] <System76Chick> People REALLY LOVE Ubuntu and they write all these cute little notes
[16:20] <System76Chick> It's great motivation
[16:22] <ClassBot> pleia2 asked: How many requests from LoCos for fliers and stickers would you say you get in a 6 month cycle? (I always forget you offer that!)
[16:23] <System76Chick> Probably 500-600. When I promote the offer online, we get a huge wave
[16:23] <ClassBot> sebsebseb asked: Have you got any tips for people who would like to promote/market a opensource/freesoftware project or opensource/freesoftware company?
[16:23] <System76Chick> We have a number of loco groups posted on our free stickers offer page, and I prepare all the inserts and stickers and ship them out as they need it
[16:24] <System76Chick> Join as many social media groups as you can and let your excitement shine through every post
[16:25] <System76Chick> The more excited you are, the more excited other people will get!
[16:26] <System76Chick> Also, if you help promote others, they will help promote you :)
[16:26] <ClassBot> Cheri703 asked: Do you post to each site individually or do you use an aggregator of some sort? like tweetdeck or something?
[16:27] <System76Chick> I post to each site individually, because every audience has different users and the content they want to see is different. We don't have anything set up to auto post
[16:29] <ClassBot> sebsebseb asked: Do you use Identica as well for example, (the open Twitter alternative with mainly Linux users it seems,) or do you stick to main streame  sites such as Twitter and Facebook?
[16:29] <System76Chick> Sometimes it's hard to keep up with, but time management is key
[16:29] <ClassBot> pleia2 asked: In starting to get involved in FOSS, have you felt your level of expertise to be acceptable, or is there a lot of pressure to keep becoming more "techie"?
[16:29] <Cheri703> ah, sorry if that was too quick
[16:30] <System76Chick> I haven't been keeping up with identi.ca lately, but I have my daily management set for Twitter, facebook, google+, system76chick.wordpress.com and now identi.ca
[16:31] <System76Chick> I definitely feel pressure to be more techie, the guys always make fun of my attempts at "speaking geek" but I take it as a challenge and make them teach me hands on in the hardware room
[16:32] <System76Chick> I learn a lot every day and their excitement when they are engineering draws me into their projects too. This guy Ian is an excellent teacher
[16:34] <System76Chick> He taught me how to build a computer and all the major in components in one day. It was pretty sweet. That was the day we built the first Leopard Extreme
[16:35] <ClassBot> pleia2 asked: Do you have any tips for other folks who are just getting started in the Ubuntu world? (join a loco team? read a certain news site?)
[16:38] <System76Chick> I think being willing and excited to learn new things is something that everyone could benefit from. Definitely join a loco group. Look for places where you are passionate and start by joining groups related to your passion. OMG Ubuntu is my fav news site for Ubuntu news, following it has helped me stay informed, reading the Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter each week is very informative
[16:38] <ClassBot> sebsebseb asked: Maybe a bit off topic from your session, but why does System76 only seem to support Ubuntu, and not any of the other distro's as well?
[16:40] <System76Chick> Because we share the same mission and values, and do all of our testing with Ubuntu and can fully offer support with all our products
[16:40] <ClassBot> JanC asked: do you get involved in the decision process of what hardware System 76 will sell (e.g. by following social media, maybe you get different input)?
[16:41] <System76Chick> I offer suggestions based on input I receive from social media, and Carl takes every suggestion seriously and offers explanations if it isn't possible to offer something specific
[16:42] <System76Chick> I always ask why, and his passion answers effectively
[16:43] <System76Chick> We definitely like to provide what the audience wants to receive
[16:46] <System76Chick> Are there any other questions?
[16:46] <ClassBot> sebsebseb asked: Unless it's changed as far as I know System76 only sells to USA and Canada, why's that?
[16:47] <System76Chick> We ship to 25 countries
[16:48] <System76Chick> Here's our list https://www.system76.com/home/shippinginformation
[16:48] <System76Chick> It really depends on UPS
[16:48] <ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
[16:49] <ClassBot> JanC asked: (related to sebsebseb's) does System76 think about branches/joint-ventures/etc. in other countries? (as shipping & payment might be easier & cheaper then)
[16:50] <ClassBot> Cheri703 asked: Is there a particular email address at system76 that more specific questions should go to?
[16:51] <System76Chick> Joint-ventures are something to explore, but not in the near future. We meet with UPS regularly to discuss more countries to ship to. They were here yesterday, in fact.
[16:51] <System76Chick> More specific questions can be sent to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[16:52] <Cheri703> QUESTION: do you feel that your time spent with small businesses is what helped shape your drive for the grass-roots/community involvement?
[16:52] <Cheri703> bah
[16:53] <System76Chick> Yes, I have worked for larger corporations and see more community involvement and opportunity for smaller businesses
[16:53] <ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
[16:54] <Cheri703> Ok, last call for questions *specifically* for Emma!
[16:55] <System76Chick> The strength of a community is an interesting phenomenon. I think Ubuntu really captures how powerful a community can truly be. I am excited to be a part of the project and the community.
[16:55] <ClassBot> pleia2 asked: How have you found getting used to the tools that the FOSS world uses? (mailing lists, IRC)
[16:56] <System76Chick> It has been a quick transition and I've had good teachers helping me along. I'm still learning, but loving every second of it.
[16:58] <ClassBot> sebsebseb asked: Does System76 have a pressence on Diaspora at all? No probably not, and it's a sort of open Facebook alternative with mainly Linux users or something like that.
[16:58] <ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/04/18/%23ubuntu-classroom.html
[16:59] <pleia2> thanks System76Chick! :)
[16:59] <System76Chick> I appreciate this opportunity to share with you guys! Thank you :)
[16:59] <Cheri703> If anyone has follow-up questions related to this session, you can contact Emma at emma@system76.com


[01:05] <DDR> Hello, all. I have a small problem. My KDE wigets are is missing, and I can't get them back.
[01:05] <DDR> The desktop background is just black. :(
[01:06] <DDR> I have access to a terminal, but I can't run anything with alt-f2 or anything.
[01:09] <DDR> Oh; I tried starting it, but it segfaulted. http://www.pasteall.org/59790
[01:12] <DDR> Tried sudo plasmashell, that worked.
[01:12] <DDR> But it had to be run in foreground; backgrounding it with & didn't work.
[01:13] <DDR> Now alt-f2 is broken. :(
[01:13] <DDR> But seriously, how do I kill KDE mounting a /disk drive/?
[01:14] <DDR> Weird. It restarted with chunkier text.
[01:15] <DDR> This is weird.
[01:23] <DDR> Made it into a keyboard shortcut. It loaded plasma with a different colour scheme.
[01:23] <DDR> _why_.
[01:23] <DDR> Oh, it started it as root. :|
[01:23] <Benjx> anyone know easy way to replace kde with gnome ?
[01:24] <DDR> Install gnome, uninstall kde in package manager?
[01:24] <Benjx> it's so easy ?
[01:25] <DDR> I /think/ so. But keep in mind the last half-hour has been me complaining that my computer doesn't work, so I might not have the creds to say so atm.
[01:25] <DDR> I installed KDE that way once.
[01:25] <DDR> My advice is to install gnome, /then/ once that's working uninstall KDE.
[01:25] <Benjx> ok thanks you
[01:26] <mparillo> A bunch of tutorials are here: http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/pureubuntu
[01:26] <Benjx> nice !
[01:26] <Benjx> thanks you
[01:28] <DDR> Weird. I can't log out.
[01:31] <Benjx> DDR: I had similar problem with my dual screen
[01:31] <Benjx> KDE is bugged when I launch kodi with fullscreen
[01:35] <DDR> Benjx: I'm running with one screen, here, but it's a large one... how did you fix it?
[01:36] <Benjx> install prop drives
[01:36] <Benjx> install prop drivers *
[01:36] <DDR> As far as I know, I have those.
[01:36] <Benjx> you have nvidia card ?
[01:38] <DDR> AMD or ATI or something.
[01:39] <Benjx> ha ok
[01:39] <Benjx> killall plasmashell ?
[01:39] <DDR> "VGA compatible controller: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] Tahiti PRO [Radeon HD 7950/8950 OEM / R9 280]"
[01:40] <DDR> Done. Plasmashell, however, doesn't do the inverse.
[01:40] <DDR> Just says Containment graphic object not valid twice, then... nothing.
[01:41] <DDR> If I mouse over where the bottom bar would normally be, it segfaults.
[01:41] <Benjx> oO I don't know how help you
[01:46] <DDR> Thanks, though.
[01:46] <DDR> I have no idea either, this install of KDE is just giving me /problems/.
[01:47] <Benjx> I leave from KDE to gnome because KDE is buggy
[01:47] <DDR> Yeah, I'm probably going to do that too. Much as I like the customization and feel of KDE, if it don't run, it don't run.
[01:48] <Benjx> yes I like it too
[06:32] <lordievader> Good morning.
[08:43] <Ryoma721> hi
[08:46] <Ryoma721> sometimes with Kubuntu 15.04 it does not work the keyboard after the computer has left the suspension screen ...
[08:47] <Ryoma721> not blinking cursor
[08:47] <Ryoma721> i can't write the password
[10:41] <nshiell> Hello all
[11:19] <maison> salut
[11:25] <echo1> Hi guys, I have problems setting up the language to german in kubuntu 14.04: 1) I have tried to set up through system settings and this what I get http://pastebin.com/Hyj3gMkM 2) I have tried to install also kde-l10n-de but nothing happens, even after rebooting 3) When I cat ~/.kde/env/setlocale.sh , I get this http://pastebin.com/UCuFu9HH which is strange
[11:30] <echo1> ping
[12:05] <DrJ> anyone know why VNC on kubuntu is so darn slow?
[12:05] <DrJ> I mean it is absolutely unusable
[12:05] <DrJ> doesn't matter if I connect to it locally or over the internet
[13:08] <Taggnostr> when 15.04 came out I upgraded my laptop from a working 14.10, and got a black screen after login.  Several other people had similar problems.  Do you know if it eventually got fixed?
[13:30] <BluesKaj> Hey folks
[13:42] <rom1504> Taggnostr: try reinstalling bumblebee
[13:43] <rom1504> also check your /etc/modprobe.d/bumblebee.conf
[13:43] <Taggnostr> rom1504, never heard of bumblebee, is it something new?
[13:44] <Taggnostr> last time the problem appeared to be related to nvidia drivers/noveau
[13:44] <rom1504> does your laptop have 2 graphic card ?
[13:44] <Taggnostr> anyway now I'm reinstalling everything from scratch
[13:44] <rom1504> intel + nvidia for example
[13:44] <Taggnostr> no, it's a really old laptop with only an nvidia card
[13:45] <rom1504> can you check with lspci | grep VGA ?
[13:45] <rom1504> 15.05 introduced nvidia-prime
[13:45] <rom1504> *15.04
[13:45] <rom1504> which is broken on some laptop (mine for example)
[13:46] <Taggnostr> I'll check as soon as I reinstalled it
[13:46] <rom1504> oh right ok
[13:46] <Taggnostr> last time I spent a week trying to make it work, but I had no luck
[13:46] <rom1504> hopefully reinstalling also solves the pb
[13:47] <rom1504> oh really ? when X doesn't start I usually ctrl+alt+f1 and check X related conf
[13:47] <Taggnostr> first the upgrade from 14.10 failed, then I tried to format and install 15.04 from scratch and that also failed, then I reverted to 14.10 and that failed as well
[13:47] <Taggnostr> failed == black screen after the login
[13:47] <rom1504> yes
[13:47] <Taggnostr> ctrl+alt+f1 was working
[13:48] <rom1504> so you can try to change some stuff from there
[13:48] <Taggnostr> I also managed to get borderless windows at some point
[13:48] <Taggnostr> but none of the things I tried fixed the problem
[13:48] <rom1504> oh and I found I need to use sddm and not lightdm
[13:48] <Taggnostr> I think I changed that as well at some point
[13:48] <BluesKaj> Taggnostr,  in the VT/TTY run update and upgrade
[13:49] <Taggnostr> BluesKaj, that's my plan, I hope it will just magically work
[13:49] <rom1504> that would be better yeah
[13:49] <Taggnostr> when I had problems 15.04 just came out
[13:49] <BluesKaj> it will help
[15:47] <Schalla> Hello folks! Got a real quick question, is Plasma 5 yet the default on Kubuntu?
[15:47] <s_20> 14.10, no. 15.04, yes
[15:47] <Schalla> Thank you, just saw the news.
[15:47] <Schalla> Well, then lets give it a shot today. Thanks. :)
[16:10] <naftilos76> Hi, does anybody know what the proper value range for a 1920x1080 IPS LCD regarding horizontal and vertical frequencies. I needto define that explicitly in xorg.conf. I have various flickering issues both on kubuntu and ubuntu. I tried the get_edid command and all i got was trash. The info returned contained nothing readable. Has anybody had any similar issues?
[16:11] <TBotNik> All: I keep getting errors from my FireFox browser and know it is related to "keytracker viruses" that are now being stored via the HTML5 cache. Where do I find help to located and delete these?
[16:12] <BluesKaj> naftilos76,  which gpu?
[16:12] <naftilos76> The gpu is a new one GeForce 840M
[16:13] <naftilos76> i have had problems with the nvidia drivers but i suspect that defining the correct range of horizontal and vertical freqs could solve the issue
[16:13] <murthy> TBotNik: Is it a latest virus?
[16:15] <naftilos76> BluesKaj: i used the get_edid and here is what i got:
[16:15] <naftilos76> https://gist.github.com/anonymous/e66540f6bc3ee3d20893
[16:15] <BluesKaj> naftilos76,  which driver ?
[16:15] <naftilos76> 346 from the official repos
[16:18] <TBotNik> murthy: No Idea!  Any page that links a Google API installs 25+ KT viruses and minimum # of KT viruses on a Win box is 200 not counting others.  That's why I don't do Winduhs!!!
[16:19] <BluesKaj> naftilos76, recommended driver ?
[16:19] <naftilos76> Yes this is the recommended in the drivers manager. I used sudo nvidia-xconfig --no-use-edid-dpi
[16:20] <murthy> TBotNik: have you tried clearing the history completely and then run a virus scan using clamav?
[16:20] <naftilos76> to generate a xorg
[16:20] <BluesKaj> naftilos76,  btw lspci is a command to find PCI hardware
[16:20] <naftilos76> i know what the gpu is
[16:20] <naftilos76> let me give you the exact line
[16:21] <naftilos76> 04:00.0 3D controller: NVIDIA Corporation GM108M [GeForce 840M] (rev a2)
[16:21] <BluesKaj> naftilos76,  run sudo nvidia-xconfig , but dunno if that will help
[16:21] <naftilos76> but dunno ?
[16:21] <naftilos76> what is that?
[16:22] <naftilos76> run plain sudo nvidia-xconfig?
[16:22] <BluesKaj> yes
[16:23] <naftilos76> I concluded that i have to explicitly define DPI as well in Device or Screen sections
[16:23] <naftilos76> otherwise the login screen fonts are tiny
[16:23] <BluesKaj> never seen that in nvidia gui
[16:25] <BluesKaj> or heard of such a setting either
[16:26] <naftilos76> BluesKaj: i have  seen that in a few links.
[16:26] <naftilos76> http://www.techytalk.info/lubuntu-change-fonts-dpi-when-using-proprietary-nvidia-driver/
[16:27] <naftilos76> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2150662
[16:27] <naftilos76> BluesKaj: i will try the driver and will get back
[16:28] <BluesKaj> naftilos76,  you set the dpi in system settings>applicatios appearance> force dpi settings
[16:28] <Ryoma721> hi
[16:28] <naftilos76> i have done that but in this case the dpi applies only when i login the x session
[16:29] <naftilos76> the login screen is still problematic
[16:29] <murthy> Ryoma721: hi
[16:29] <naftilos76> BluesKaj: doing that in xorg solves the problem in both cases
[16:29] <naftilos76> i will see you in a minute
[16:29] <Ryoma721> sometimes with Kubuntu 15.04 it does not work the keyboard after the computer has left the suspension screen ...
[16:29] <Ryoma721> [10:47] <Ryoma721> not blinking cursor
[16:30] <Ryoma721> i cant write password
[16:30] <BluesKaj> naftilos76,  xserver-xorg is not needed if you use nsysem settings in the newer kubuntus
[16:31] <murthy> Ryoma721: but are you able to open a tty?
[16:31] <TBotNik> murthy: That finds nothing, but the slowdowns and lockups of the computer only happen when either or both Firefox and Thunderbird are open, so know some virus in the HTML5 cache.  Not sure if there any tools out there to find those.
[16:31] <Ryoma721> no
[16:31] <Ryoma721> i cant write password
[16:31] <naftilos76> BluesKaj:  i am sorry i do not know what nsysem is but saw that changing things in xorg.conf affects the behavior of the lcd
[16:32] <Ryoma721> I expect a new suspension of the screen and then starts to run
[16:32] <murthy> TBotNik: do you have anyother browser installed? also how much ram do you have in your system?
[16:33] <Ryoma721> itty i think no
[16:33] <murthy> Ryoma721: using any graphics card?
[16:33] <Ryoma721> yes
[16:33] <murthy> Ryoma721: are you new to linux?
[16:33] <Ryoma721> no
[16:34] <Ryoma721> i have a10-7800
[16:34] <murthy> Ryoma721: are you able to login from a tty?
[16:34] <Ryoma721> kernel 4.20
[16:34] <murthy> Ryoma721: using ubuntu 15.10?
[16:35] <Ryoma721> kubuntu 15.04
[16:35] <Ryoma721> kernel 4.20
[16:35] <Ryoma721> same problem kernel 4.19
[16:36] <murthy> Ryoma721: do you have any kernel of series 3.19.0-X
[16:37] <Ryoma721> yes
[16:37] <murthy> Ryoma721: does this problem happen when using that kernel?
[16:38] <Ryoma721> I try 'in the next few days
[16:39] <murthy> Ryoma721: ok do that. If the problem is only in kernel 4 series, file a bug
[16:39] <Ryoma721> with the kernel 4.19 for many weeks worked regularly
[16:39] <Ryoma721> bug kernel???
[16:39] <murthy> ya
[16:39] <murthy> may be
[16:39] <Ryoma721> as freezer pc
[16:39] <Ryoma721> write password....
[16:40] <Ryoma721> and after 10 minuts the pc work good
[16:40] <murthy> Ryoma721: if you like to debug, you can get guidance in kubuntu-devel
[16:40] <murthy> I mean #kubuntu-devel channel
[16:41] <Ryoma721> try kernel 4.19
[16:41] <Ryoma721> i like last kernel because update driver radeon....
[16:42] <Ryoma721> 3.19
[16:43] <murthy> Ryoma721: newer kernel are bound to bugs. You could check the kernel log for errors
[16:43] <prillian5> how can I enable messages on Boot-Process to see, why the new 15.04 are such damn slow on startub?
[16:43] <prillian5> startup
[16:43] <Ryoma721> okkk
[16:43] <Ryoma721> log kernel
[16:45] <murthy> prillian5: you need to remove the quit splash boot parameters from the grub menu and add debug and then boot. You will see the boot messages. do you know how to do that?
[16:46] <murthy> Ryoma721: do you know where the kernel log is?
[16:46] <prillian5> is there a gui in kubuntu, or have i to edit /boot/grub/grub.cnf
[16:46] <murthy> prillian5: no
[16:46] <murthy> prillian5: you just want to see the error messages temporally right?
[16:47] <prillian5> right.
[16:47] <prillian5> so enter the grub-menu and do the setting there?
[16:47] <murthy> prillian5: then you can do it from the grub menu that is show during the boot
[16:48] <prillian5> ok, what exactly to do there?
[16:48] <prillian5> remove "quite" and?
[16:48] <murthy> prillian5: I will tell you
[16:49] <prillian5> Ryoma721: should i pastebin the Kernel-Log?
[16:50] <Ryoma721> mmmm
[16:50] <Ryoma721> 18.18
[16:50] <murthy> prillian5: during boot when the grub menu show up. at the bottom it will show you which key has to be pressed to edit the grub menu press that, now you will be able to edit the grub menu. remove the words quite and splash and then add debug and then press f10 key to boot. This is temporary and so you will have to do it every time you  boot if you want to see the debug messages
[16:51] <Ryoma721> prilian
[16:51] <Ryoma721> quesry
[16:51] <Ryoma721> query
[16:51] <BluesKaj> remove quiet and splash
[16:52] <murthy> ya
[16:53] <murthy> Ryoma721: The kernel log is in /var/log/
[16:53] <Ryoma721> murphi
[16:53] <Ryoma721> can query???
[16:54] <Ryoma721> i have log kernel
[16:54] <murthy> Ryoma721: do you see any error messages in it?
[16:55] <prillian5> murthy:  BluesKaj: If I look into kernel.log. does the numbers inside of the [  .... ] are seconds to show, when the entry was loaded at boottime?
[16:55] <Ryoma721> no
[16:55] <Ryoma721> restart kernel
[16:55] <Voyage_> Hi
[16:56] <Ryoma721> murphy reload kernel....
[16:56] <Ryoma721> murthy
[16:56] <murthy> prillian5: Ya, but I am not suere
[16:56] <murthy> *sure
[16:57] <prillian5> Ok, here is my kern.log: https://paste.kde.org/pycdhdge6
[16:57] <prillian5> The most needed Time is on Line 957
[16:58] <prillian5> between apparmor_parser and bbswitch
[16:58] <prillian5> Any Idea, why the bootup elapsed so much time here?
[16:58] <prillian5> mean "waist so much time here"
[16:58] <murthy> !paste
[16:58] <murthy> !paste | Ryoma721
[16:59] <Ryoma721> !paste
[16:59] <prillian5> Does the problem cause of appamor, or bbswitch on my kernel-log?
[17:00] <murthy> prillian5: so your problem is slow booting ?
[17:01] <prillian5> yes, since I upgrade from 14.04
[17:01] <prillian5> takes more than three time as before
[17:02] <murthy> prillian5: try this command  systemd-analyze blame
[17:02] <murthy> prillian5: it will show you which process takes  how much time
[17:02] <Ryoma721> okkk
[17:02] <Ryoma721> where write ???
[17:03] <prillian5> murthy: thank you. I've checked this before. But seems not show the real Problem. But anyway, here is the pasetbin of the result
[17:03] <prillian5> https://paste.kde.org/pxki0d215
[17:03] <Ryoma721> http://paste.ubuntu.com/11931121/
[17:03] <murthy> prillian5: you were talking about this to someone yesterday?
[17:04] <murthy> Ryoma721: seems your disks are corrupted
[17:04] <prillian5> yes.
[17:05] <murthy> Ryoma721: try this command    sudo touch /forcefsck
[17:05] <murthy> Ryoma721: and then reboot
[17:06] <prillian5> murthy: so if I look at the top 10 of the systemd-analyze-Result, I have nearly "15 Seconds". But the System is now much slower thas this.
[17:06] <murthy> Ryoma721: system will run a disk check on the root partition
[17:06] <prillian5> before it takes nearly 50 seconds to boot (i7, SSD), now it takes more than 2 minutes to login-screen of kde
[17:06] <Ryoma721> i format
[17:06] <Ryoma721> sda2....
[17:07] <murthy> prillian5: ok did you try the thing I told you
[17:07] <Ryoma721> sda2 swap
[17:07] <murthy> prillian5: about how to see the debug messages?
[17:07] <Ryoma721> deactivate swap
[17:07] <Ryoma721> format
[17:07] <Ryoma721> attivate swap
[17:07] <prillian5> murthy: If I deactivate mysql and apache, the bootup is not really faster (not noticeable)
[17:08] <prillian5> Wait, in the logs, where the big jump is... bbswitch... isn't it the nvidia bumblebee driver
[17:08] <prillian5> maybe there are problems at boottime. Maybe I should try to remove manufacturer drivers for nvidia?
[17:09] <prillian5> I normaly use the smaller "intel" Graphics-Card. So no really need for nvidia
[17:10] <murthy> Ryoma721: you better go to #kubuntu-devel for help.
[17:10] <Alf> Hi, anyone can point me how to install kubuntu on a usb drive?
[17:11] <murthy> prillian5: ya, you can try removing the driver and see if that helps. but take care. see if the nouveau driver is blacklisted
[17:12] <prillian5> ok, sounds like a good plan. what are the steps to do this?
[17:13] <prillian5> murthy: you think I should try first to use the nouveau driver and see if the boot-process speed ub?
[17:13] <prillian5> up?
[17:14] <Ryoma721> Thank you, I try to see if now is not problems
[17:14] <murthy> Ryoma721: ok
[17:14] <Ryoma721> sudo touch /forcefsck
[17:14] <Ryoma721> now and restart
[17:14] <prillian5> on KDE-GUI for "Driver ManagementSoftware" I cant remove the Nvidia, only choose another one
[17:15] <Ryoma721> thanks for help
[17:15] <murthy> prillian5: you need to remove the nvidia driver first and then remove nouuveau from the black list
[17:15] <prillian5> where do i found the blacklist?
[17:15] <murthy> prillian5: can you see the option xorg.... in the driver manager?
[17:15] <prillian5> murthy: yes
[17:16] <murthy> prillian5: the blacklist is in /etc/modprobe.d
[17:16] <murthy> prillian5: the xorg.. one is the default one that you have to activate to use nouveau driver
[17:17] <murthy> Alf: I forgot a webpage that explains how to install kubuntu on usb drive, let me search
[17:18] <prillian5> ok. A grep in /etc/modprobe.d/ gives me bubelbee.conf and nvidia-331_hyprid.conf which have nouveau as text inside
[17:18] <prillian5> Alf, murthy: Maybe try http://unetbootin.sourceforge.net/
[17:19] <prillian5> This installs the Distribution you like on your usb-stick.
[17:19] <prillian5> with 2 Clicks
[17:19] <murthy> prillian5: he want to install on pendrive, not a live one
[17:19] <Ryoma721> hiii
[17:19] <murthy> Alf: did you mean you what to create a live usb?
[17:19] <Ryoma721> check complete hard disk
[17:19] <murthy> Ryoma721: hi
[17:19] <murthy> Ryoma721: good
[17:19] <Ryoma721> thanks
[17:20] <prillian5> murthy: I first try now the alternate nvidia drivers. If they not faster on boottime, I comment out the blacklist, like you told.
[17:20] <murthy> Ryoma721: problem still there?
[17:20] <prillian5> Be back in some minutes.
[17:20] <prillian5> murthy: thanks so far for your hints
[17:20] <murthy> prillian5: no
[17:20] <murthy> prillian5: wait
[17:20] <prillian5> yes
[17:20] <Ryoma721> I have to wait for the suspension of the monitor
[17:20] <Ryoma721> after keyboard not works
[17:20] <murthy> prillian5: the alternate driver to nvidia is the nouveau driver
[17:21] <murthy> prillian5: so after you activate the xorg option in the driver manager make sure that nouveau driver is not in the blacklist else you will have display trouble in the next boot
[17:22] <prillian5> This are my options: http://i.imgur.com/VVvHTHB.jpg
[17:22] <prillian5> I mean first try 304, or 346
[17:23] <murthy> prillian5: you need to use the last option xorg-x-server
[17:23] <prillian5> as last option I would try xorg-driver, and comment out the blacklist ot nouveau?!
[17:23] <prillian5> murthy: ok, you mean, the other ones makes no different?
[17:23] <murthy> prillian5: and when it says the selected option is activated, check if the nouveau driver is removed from the blacklist
[17:23] <murthy> prillian5: ya
[17:23] <prillian5> ok.
[17:24] <prillian5> one moment, i activate it now
[17:24] <murthy> p`no
[17:24] <murthy> prillian5: no
[17:24] <murthy> prillian5: the latest driver may solve the problem. but first lets see if the driver is the issue here
[17:25] <prillian5> ok. How?
[17:25] <murthy> prillian5: so active the xorg-x-server and then check for the nouveau blacklist removal. I will tell you how
[17:26] <prillian5> ok, I have choose the radio-button and change the driver now to xorg.-One.
[17:26] <prillian5> how to check now the blacklist-entry?
[17:26] <prillian5> I'm in /etc/modprobe.d/ now
[17:27] <murthy> prillian5:run the following command and paste the output.   grep "nouveau" /etc/modprobe.d/*
[17:28] <prillian5> murthy: https://paste.kde.org/poclhy0wo
[17:28] <murthy> Ryoma721: did you ask people in #kubuntu-devel?
[17:30] <murthy> prillian5: need to go, will be back in 5 mins
[17:30] <Ryoma721> no
[17:31] <Ryoma721> try my pc after check disk
[17:31] <Ryoma721> and if i have same problem ask
[17:32] <prillian5> murthy: ok. Thanks so far.  Have i to comment out the blacklist nouveau of each files?
[17:33] <murthy> prillian5: ya, comment out the lines that says blacklist nouveau
[17:34] <prillian5> ok
[17:36] <murthy> bbl
[17:40] <murthy> Alf: http://askubuntu.com/questions/16988/how-do-i-install-ubuntu-to-a-usb-key-without-using-startup-disk-creator
[17:40] <murthy> Alf: try that
[17:40] <murthy> good night all
[17:51] <Alf> Hi guys, thanks a lot!! I'll take a look at your links
[17:53] <Ryoma721> murthy yet the bug
[17:53] <Ryoma721> kernel log no problem
[17:54] <Alf> murthy: Thanks!
[18:06] <naftilos76> BluesKaj: Do you know why would my bluetooth adapter works fne in ubuntu but not in kubuntu (not even recognized as a physical adapter h/w) ?
[18:08] <BluesKaj> naftilos76, sorry I don't know, I've never used any bluetooth devices
[18:10] <naftilos76> Thanks man.
[18:27] <prillian5> I have no found the problem why my pc start so slow. On boottime I got a message like.... : A start job is running for dev-disk-by\x2duuid.....
[18:28] <prillian5> how can I found out, which device this is?
[18:32] <prillian5> Ok, solved my problem now. It was a swap-entry for a not existing partition in fstab.
[18:32] <prillian5> Now the System boots in 20 seconds again.
[18:33] <prillian5> Thank you murthy for your help.
[18:36] <Voyage_> Theremy laptop LCD is broken, I need to get things urgently from my pc, I can ssh from another pc to it. I plan to attach an external LCD to VGA port and via ssh, change the display monitor in the settings> monitor of KDE. How can I do that?
[18:42] <krise> what might be the problem why my laptop is overheating . Samsung chronos 7 about 2 years old. started to get hot about 6 months ago
[18:44] <krise> 75 C at the moment, started up about 30 min ago
[18:44] <krise> well cleaned regulary
[18:51] <krise> 80
[18:53] <Schalla> Voyage: What you need? Files?
[18:54] <Schalla> * Voyage_
[18:54] <Voyage_> Schalla,  not files.
[18:54] <Voyage_> some browser cache data that needs a GUI
[18:55] <Voyage_> some other things. All depend on GUI
[18:55] <Schalla> Ah, I see. Hm, I am sadly a noob in every regard to graphic configuration, but just to bring up another idea might be to install a vnc server.
[18:59] <Voyage_> how to open kde settings page via command line?
[19:02] <anditosan> Hey team, do you know who is working on the Kubuntu builds right nwo?
[19:49] <Voyage_> Question: In kubuntu, how to change things by config files that are change via settings> monitor/display ?
[19:54] <lordievader> Voyage_: Likely in kscreenrc.
[19:54] <Voyage_> hm
[19:55] <Voyage_> lordievader,  no such file there
[19:58] <Voyage_> etc/X11$ ls
[19:58] <Voyage_> app-defaults  core  cursors  default-display-manager  fonts  rgb.txt  X  xinit  xkb  Xreset  Xreset.d  Xresources  Xsession  Xsession.d  Xsession.options  xsm  Xwrapper.config
[19:58] <Voyage_> helps ^?
[19:58] <lordievader> Voyage_: What version of Kubuntu are you running?
[19:58] <Voyage_> 14 lts
[19:59] <lordievader> Kwinrc has some display definitions.
[20:00] <lordievader> Perhaps it is in there.
[20:01] <Voyage_> lordievader,  http://pastie.org/10310361
[20:03] <Voyage_> http://pastie.org/10310361 found the file, which line do I need to change?
[20:08] <Voyage_> lordievader, ?
[20:10] <DrJ> anyone know why VNC on kubuntu is so darn slow?
[20:10] <DrJ> doesn't matter if I connect to it locally or over the internet
[20:10] <DrJ> I mean it is absolutely unusable
[20:15] <lordievader> Voyage_: I am not sure why you are trying to do this via files...?
[20:15] <lordievader> DrJ: Its VNC, VNC is slow.
[20:15] <lordievader> Even turbo vnc with effects disabled is slow.
[20:16] <DrJ> is there any other good remote access options then?
[20:17] <Voyage_> lordievader,  <Voyage_> Question: In kubuntu, how to change things by config files that are change via settings> monitor/display ?
[20:18] <Voyage_> laptop LCD is broken, I need to get things urgently from my pc, I can ssh from another pc to it. I plan to attach an external LCD to VGA port and via ssh, change the display monitor in the settings> monitor of KDE. How can I do that?
[20:18] <lordievader> DrJ: xrdp is slightly better but can still be quite frustrating.
[20:18] <DrJ> I probably use my computer remotely more than I do sitting in front of it
[20:18] <lordievader> Voyage_: It is easier to set the resolution via xrandr.
[20:18] <DrJ> recently switched from windows to kubuntu
[20:18] <DrJ> but I'm about to switch back
[20:18] <DrJ> because I just can't do without good remote access
[20:18] <lordievader> DrJ: Windows is much better at the whole remote desktop thing.
[20:19] <DrJ> yea, RDP is the best
[20:19] <lordievader> Perhaps, and hopefully, this will change with Wayland.
[20:19] <DrJ> what's Wayland?
[20:19] <lordievader> A new display server.
[20:19] <DrJ> ah
[20:19] <lordievader> DrJ: http://wayland.freedesktop.org/
[20:19] <DrJ> already there :)
[20:20] <DrJ> so probably not something we'll be seeing in the near future
[20:20] <lordievader> Not likely.
[20:21] <DrJ> well, right now I'm sort of getting around my problem by running windows vms
[20:21] <DrJ> and having the stuff I access remotely most inside them
[20:21] <DrJ> but that defeats my purpose of switching to kubuntu at the same time
[20:22] <DrJ> lordievader: would this X11 forwarding possibly be a solution?
[20:23] <DrJ> through putty
[20:27] <lordievader> For individual applications, perhaps. For the whole desktop, no.
[21:32] <The_Fireplace> Hey guys
[21:40] <The_Fireplace> I just installed Kubuntu, I am having an issue on it(I also saw it in Ubuntu when I tried it) involving the resolution. I have 2 monitors hooked up to my computer, one is a monitor, the other is a tv, and they each have different resolutions. The actual monitor works fine, but edges of the screen on the tv go a little out of the boundries of the tv, still clickable, but not visible. In the settings, I have it set to the same
[21:40] <The_Fireplace> resolution I set the tv to on windows, and on windows it didn't ever do this. Anyone know how to fix it?
[21:40] <The_Fireplace> And if my issue wasn't clear, I can draw up a visual example real quick and post the link
[21:54] <The_Fireplace> I believe the term for what is happening is "overscan"
[22:06] <glenn> How can I get nvidia drivers to work and not hang my system on reboot? I believe that X.Org is causing random freezing for me
[22:07] <The_Fireplace> I have an nVidia and I am not having issues with that. Which GPU do you have?
[22:07] <glenn> 670
[22:07] <glenn> which driver are you using?
[22:08] <The_Fireplace> I switched it from X.org to another one. One sec, I will open my settings and tell you which one
[22:10] <The_Fireplace> Ok, in System Settings>Driver Manager, I switched it to NVIDIA binary driver - version 346.59 from nvidia - 346 (Recommended Driver)
[22:10] <The_Fireplace> I have a gt 620
[22:12] <The_Fireplace> Let me know if that fixed your issue
[22:24] <gtronick> Hello


[19:18] <fluvvell_> I haved recovered a drive on the myth server, but all the file names are changed. Can I find what the file names should be from the database?
[19:19] <fluvvell_> that is, photorec assigns names of its own. I can play the files with VLC and work out what they are but not the dates or names
[21:05] <fluvvell_> how and where are recordings filenames stored in mythconverge?
[21:10] <tgm4883> fluvvell_: probably in the recordings table


[03:46] <cmaloney> Uploading the latest Open Metalcast
[12:15] <rick_h> http://i.imgur.com/hINj1xf.png lol of the day
[12:15] <rick_h> and morning
[12:21] <brousch> nice
[13:40] <cmaloney> Good morning
[13:42] <rick_h> http://blogs.atlassian.com/2013/08/atlassian-kids-scratch-their-programming-itch-shipit-style/
[13:46] <cmaloney> http://openmetalcast.com/2013/08/19/open-metalcast-episode-78-sportball-surprise/
[13:47] <cmaloney> I really wish more blogs supported urls that if truncated will not 404
[13:47] <cmaloney> case in point: the atlassian link
[13:53] <rick_h> ugh, I'm going to get into trouble, but my new response to anything about women in programming is going to be "why don't you pick up the sword for equality in lawn-mowing services?" "Why are there so few women showing up at my house offering to mow my lawn...just think about it!"
[13:54] <cmaloney> Actually I've seen women mowing lawns
[13:54] <rick_h> well there are 5 services on this street and I've not seen one
[13:54] <rick_h> so there must not be any
[13:54] <cmaloney> riiiiight.
[13:55] <brousch> LAwn mowing is physically taxing. Men are larger than women. Are you saying a similar situation applies in programming?
[13:55] <rick_h> http://farukat.es/journal/2013/08/692-why-are-there-so-few-good-men-programmers for the ugh of the day
[13:55] <cmaloney> But yeah, I'm a little tired of feeling like I'm somehow responsible for the lack of something in my interests
[14:10] <brousch> I just ignore it
[14:11] <jrwren> i also just ignore it. I'm tired, plus i'm a white male, i'm not allowed to talk about i.
[14:11] <cmaloney> jrwren: And that's the other thing
[15:08] <greg-g> rick_h: one of my current roommates is/was a gardener (she's now 7 months pregnant, so yeah)
[15:08] <greg-g> just a fancy lawn mower ;)
[15:14] <greg-g> wait, groklaw is shutting down because... email is insecure?
[15:14] <greg-g> have they not heard of gpg?
[15:16] <brousch> greg-g: I can't say it makes much sense to me either
[15:22] <rick_h> greg-g: yea, that one seemed more of a "you all have killed the idealism of the internet for me" vs a "there's no way we can continue with current available tech"
[15:22] <rick_h> jcastro: you ever end up getting a fitbit? Get it working ok and such?
[15:23] <jcastro> yeah
[15:23] <jcastro> works awesome
[15:23] <jcastro> got the scale too
[15:24] <rick_h> jcastro: which one did you get?
[15:24] <jcastro> the flex, the wristband one
[15:25] <rick_h> jcastro: cool, thanks
[15:25] <greg-g> rick_h: yeah, that's probably more the feeling
[15:26] <jcastro> rick_h: supposedly the clip on ones are more accurate
[15:26] <jcastro> but when I had that I lost it
[15:26] <jcastro> actually, I washed it.
[15:26] <rick_h> greg-g: which I understand. If something causes you to lose your passion for the thing and all. but the internet blow up is focused as if it's tech related
[15:26] <jcastro> the flex is somewhat waterproof
[15:26] <rick_h> jcastro: yea, I've kept putting it off reading reviews and such
[15:27] <rick_h> and none of them seem to do well with biking
[15:27] <rick_h> jcastro: but I think it's time to just do *something* and figure out how to supplement the info with the extra bits
[15:27] <jcastro> yeah I think you'd just go back into the web UI and mark the time off as "biking"
[15:28] <jcastro> and then that would do what you want
[15:28] <jcastro> the nice thing I love about the flex isn't even the fitbit part
[15:28] <jcastro> it has a silent alarm
[15:28] <jcastro> so like, my wristband vibrates so I can wakeup without waking jill up
[15:28] <rick_h> hah, that's cool.
[15:29] <rick_h> I've done that with my pebble once but don't like sleeping with my watch on.
[15:30] <jcastro> yeah
[15:30] <jcastro> the only bummer about the flex is it was backordered and I had to wait like a month
[15:30] <jcastro> and the other-color wristbands are backordered too
[15:30] <rick_h> ah, they're in on AMZ
[15:30] <jcastro> so I can't wear the ubuntu orange band. :-/
[15:30] <rick_h> well the flex is, didn't check the bands
[15:31] <greg-g> I have this huge "shake n' wake" thingy that is a cheap-ass no-name brand (literally, there is no brand name anywhere on it) thing that does that. worked pretty well when I was getting up at 5:30 to commute to Mountain View without waking Rowan/Carrie
[15:31] <jcastro> rick_h: the scale is badass
[15:31] <jcastro> you get like badges when you lose weight
[15:31] <jcastro> "10 pound club" and stuff
[15:31] <rick_h> heh
[15:31] <greg-g> you only weight 10 pounds?
[15:31] <jcastro> http://www.amazon.com/Fitbit-Flex-Wristband-Accessory-Large/dp/B00BGO0QBM/ref=sr_1_8?s=hpc&ie=UTF8&qid=1377012662&sr=1-8
[15:31] <greg-g> -t
[15:31] <jcastro> lol seriously
[15:32] <jcastro> way to play to the market there
[15:35] <rick_h> wtf is with the complete 'world fail!' lately? http://r.bmark.us/u/7b7adddc073674
[15:35]  * rick_h just goes back to bed...screw this place
[15:36] <brousch> The End Times are almost here
[15:36] <greg-g> all your fancy hard drive encryption won't save you from... LOCUSTS!
[15:37] <greg-g> btw, yesterday was my 6 month anniversary at WMF :)
[15:37] <rick_h> greg-g: woot!
[15:37] <greg-g> I got my WMF messenger bag :)
[15:37] <brousch> Don't locusts just eat all the food? Surely we can deter them with chemicals or technology
[15:38] <greg-g> but then.... THE PLAGUE!
[15:38] <brousch> I've had my shots
[15:39] <greg-g> and then...  OF COURSE NOT! THIS IS GOING TO SUCK!
[15:40]  * greg-g may have failed any bible related tests in his life
[16:01] <jrwren> really?
[16:01] <jrwren> i was raised in sunday school. I know lots of bible stories.
[16:30] <cmaloney> Same here
[16:30] <cmaloney> Let us divide some babies, yo.
[16:31] <jrwren> only a king can do that
[16:33] <cmaloney> OK, this is cool / messed up
[16:33] <cmaloney> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etWxm4GXfpE
[16:33] <cmaloney> Someone is uploading my episodes to Youtube
[16:33] <jrwren> send 'em a "thanks" ?
[16:34] <jrwren> wait, you are CC NC  right?
[16:34] <cmaloney> I am
[16:34] <cmaloney> Is there an ad on it?
[16:34] <jrwren> if they run ads on the YT vid, its a violation of the NC part
[16:34] <jrwren> nope, no ad
[16:36] <cmaloney> I mean, I'd prefer they link back to the show page (archive.org or omc), but I find it interesting that someone is going through the trouble of even uploading these things
[16:40] <rick_h> OMC on my chromecast!
[17:00] <cmaloney> w000t
[17:14] <jrwren> my brain is broken.
[17:15] <cmaloney> http://arstechnica.com/business/2013/08/barnes-noble-not-giving-up-on-nook-tablets-after-all/
[17:15] <rick_h> same here, so took a half day sick day.
[17:15] <rick_h> cmaloney: heh, avoided linking that.
[17:17] <rick_h> jrwren: ah, ugh
[17:18] <cmaloney> Yeah, that's not going to happen unless your name is Nokia
[17:18] <jrwren> "that thing that lets me type activate and deactivate"
[17:18] <cmaloney> And God knows why that is
[17:22] <jrwren> pyenv-virtualenv is weird
[19:03] <cmaloney> http://wsgiwar.com/
[19:48] <rick_h> so http://benjaminkerensa.com/2013/08/14/firefox-to-remain-default-very-nice makes a lot more sense now http://benjaminkerensa.com/2013/08/20/north-america-mozilla-reps-meetup
[19:58] <rick_h> geeze, http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/08/uk-home-office-defends-nine-hour-interrogation-of-journalists-partner/
[19:58] <rick_h> I love this line "The official reason for destroying The Guardian's hard drives is also related to public safety. The thinking was that the newspaper could have been hacked, and the secret information could have been acquired by those who would do harm to the nation."
[19:58] <rick_h> your computer could have been hacked, and data exposed...so we went in and destroyed it for you. You'll get a bill in the mail kthx.
[21:19] <cmaloney> Pretty sure my bad days start with "There's a report we'd like you to generate"
[21:20] <trevlar> that request sounds very familiar
[21:21] <cmaloney> If it weren't for meaningless reports, tehre'd be no need for computer professionals in business
[21:39] <jrwren> a web page is just a meaningless report.
[21:39] <jrwren> wordpress automates meaningless report creation of the blog variety.


[21:14] <warp10> "canceled" or "cancelled", that is the question! (cit.) We had a sort of philological discussion here! Looks like both are fine, but the discussion lead us to say that we want to use "canceled" consistently across the whole program.
[21:15] <warp10> You could fix this bug with `apt-get source update-manager` and than following the workflow we saw in the previous bug, but Daniel Polehn decided to do Ubuntu Development on steroids, using bzr.
[21:15] <warp10> Downloading the source branch is very simple: `bzr branch ubuntu:update-manager`. This command will download the branch, ready for development, with debian/ directory included and applied already.
[21:16] <warp10> The inconsistency is in DistUpgrade/DistUpgradeView.py, so we patch that file, then we add the usual entry in debian/changelog. You can see Daniel'swork in the branch he proposed for merging here: https://code.launchpad.net/~dpolehn-gmail/update-manager/fix-918302
[21:16] <warp10> We are almost done! Enough we commit the patch with the usual `bzr commit` and then upload our new branch and open the merge proposal.
[21:17] <warp10> This can be easily done with bzr lp-done, which will guide through the process within your browser. More information about uploading and sponsoring of merge proposal here: http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/udd-working.html
[21:17] <warp10> Of course, don't forget to test your work! bzr builddeb will help you generating both the source and debian package.
[21:17] <warp10> Any question so far?
[21:18] <warp10> Next bug will allow us to talk about a very important topic: working with upstream.
[21:18] <warp10> As you all know, Ubuntu is built upon Debian, and very often we import both the packages and bugs from there :)
[21:18] <warp10> Therefore, it's often a good thing to send back our patches to Debian. There are a lot of good reasons to do this, someone of them were discussed by Daniel in the first session of UDW.
[21:19] <warp10> Let's see an example of good cooperation with Debian: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xemacs21/+bug/4883
[21:19] <ClassBot> PaoloRotolo asked: How I can find the FTBFS bugs on Launchpad? There is a list?
[21:20] <warp10> PaoloRotolo: very good question
[21:20] <warp10> PaoloRotolo: ubuntuwire is plenty of resources about QA and FTBFS
[21:20] <ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
[21:20] <warp10> PaoloRotolo: point your browser to http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ annd especially to http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/
[21:20] <warp10> so, back to the bug above
[21:20] <warp10> We have a problem with xemacs21 info pages here, and debian has the very same issue. This is a very ancient bug, but don't care, we are interested more to the "spirit" of this bugfix rather than to technical aspects.
[21:21] <warp10> Scroll through the discussion in this bug report and go to comment #9. Ralph Janke proposed a debdiff here (generated in a very similar way to how we saw in the first bug). After attaching the patch, Ralph answered to the debian bug too (http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=330253), informing the debian maintainer that a patch was available in ubuntu.
[21:21] <warp10> Actually, the debdiff got improved in the following days, and eventually arrived to an optimal version. This debdiff was used by the debian maintainer to upload a fixed package in Debian. Later, the package was synced from Debian, and the fix arrived in Ubuntu as well.
[21:21] <warp10> Don't you think this is a great way of working with bugs? This way we avoid adding a useless delta from debian, give back something to debian, improve our relationships with our upstream, allow other debian derivatives to take advantage, and even more.
[21:22] <warp10> Actually, we can even go more far away, suggesting patches to the upstreams of our immediate upstream Debian, like we did in this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-power-manager/+bug/397248
[21:22] <warp10> The problem here involves GNOME, so it's worth sending a patch to GNOME itself, rather than sending it to Debian only.
[21:23] <ClassBot> kelemengabor asked: what should I do if I want to hack on a particular package, but its bzr branch is outdated? like, Transmission in Precise.
[21:23] <warp10> kelemengabor: Just stick to the good old apt-get source and grab it straight from archive
[21:23] <warp10> So, back to the bug. IT is a little bit nasty here, and involves some advanced knwoledge about gdb, but we don't care this so much: the Internt is plenty of resources about debugging with gdb.
[21:24] <warp10> As you can see from the debdiff at comment #14, the patch is so small, but involved a little bit of work to get there and to understand what was going wrong. Don't worry, you absolutely don't need to be a gdb master to be a great MOTU.
[21:24] <warp10> You need good communication skills, instead, and Scott Howard reported the bug to the GNOME bug tracker (https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=588259) and added his findings too, giving a great help to the upstream developer to write a patch.
[21:24] <warp10> This way, the patch got integrated from GNOME and in a few days flowed downstream to Debian and Ubuntu. That's great!
[21:25] <warp10> So, all in all, what we learn from all of this? A lot of things:
[21:25] <ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
[21:25] <warp10> 1- fixing bugs in Ubuntu is easy and makes lot of people happy! :)
[21:25] <warp10> 2- it's not a matter of a being a great programmer. You rather need good communcation and detective skills
[21:26] <warp10> 3- you are not alone! Your fellow ubuntu developers and sponsors are there to help, teach you and give great hints to improve your work. Don't hesitate to ask in #ubuntu-motu or ubuntu-motu@ if you are in trouble!
[21:26] <warp10> 4- upstreams matter. Don't add useless deltas from debian, rather cooperate with debian developers to get the best for both worlds.
[21:27] <warp10> For more information about Bug triaging, please refer to: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs
[21:27] <warp10> Another interesting wiki page about bugfixing is: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToFix
[21:28] <warp10> And of course, the main entry point for everything about Ubuntu Development: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment
[21:28] <warp10> Ok, guys, this ends our travel across the bugfixing world
[21:28] <ClassBot> pawel_st_ asked: kelemengabor realized that a package was outdated in bzr branch. Why is that, do you always have to check if apt-get source provides newer version?
[21:29] <warp10> pawel_st_: you will be warned by bzr if bzr source branch is outdated
[21:29] <warp10> pawel_st_: sop, no need to apt-get source just to check it
[21:29] <warp10> Ok, hope you got eager to fix bugs, guys!
[21:30] <warp10> And now, everybody stand here to listen cprofitt who will tell us great things about life-cycle of bug reports in Ubuntu.
[21:30]  * warp10 says "Ciao a tutti!"
[21:30] <ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/02/02/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
[21:30]  * cprofitt says hello
[21:31] <cprofitt> Welcome to Problem Lifecycle in Ubuntu.
[21:31] <cprofitt> Let me introduce myself. I am Charles Profitt and have been an Ubuntu Member since January of 2009 and involved Loco Community.
[21:31] <cprofitt> This session is a result of a UDS-O I led on improving the community involvement with Bugs. That session was focused on the end users, not the developer or QA groups.
[21:31] <cprofitt> In this session I will try to focus this on the developer and QA part of the Ubuntu community. I encourage questions to be asked at any time.
[21:32] <cprofitt> To ask a question, you need to be in #ubuntu-classroom-chat and ask your question in the following format:
[21:32] <cprofitt> QUESTION: <your question here>
[21:32] <cprofitt> note: If you do not begin the line with QUESTION:, ClassBot will not recognize it, and your question will most likely not get answered.
[21:32] <cprofitt> the previous session was on fighting bugs,... but this session will focus on 'problems'
[21:32] <cprofitt> The first thing to remember is that a problem and a bug are not the same. While bugs to cause problems they are not the sole cause.
[21:32] <cprofitt> The next important part is to remember that we have three distinct groups in our community.
[21:33] <cprofitt> 1 - Users
[21:33] <cprofitt> 2 - Technical Users - Systems Administrators or More Advanced Users
[21:33] <cprofitt> 3 - Developers - app developers, packagers, patchers, etc
[21:33] <cprofitt> the users group is and will continue to be the largest group
[21:34] <cprofitt> when Ubuntu started that group was very technical, but as the ease of use has increased the groups has increasingly become composed of less technical users
[21:34] <cprofitt> this is a good thing!!
[21:34] <cprofitt> The final general piece is that bugs are best resolved in development releases and not in stable releases. Once a release is stable there is a much more detailed and stringent process that has to be followed for an update to be released (SRU - Stable Release Update). This is due to the requirement to not cause a cascade of 'bugs'.
[21:34] <cprofitt> This creates a bit of a problem because most, if not all, of the people that fall in the 'users' group will not be running the development release. In fact, many of the technical users will only run the development release on spare equipment.
[21:34] <cprofitt> As our community grows the percentage of Ubuntu users will largely be in the users group and with the developers ending up as the smallest group. To sustain growth it is essential for the entire community to understand the Problem Life Cycle in brief.
[21:35] <cprofitt> Why do I call it the Problem Life Cycle?
[21:35] <cprofitt> Because all bugs start with a problem. A problem might be resolved by a configuration being corrected or it could truly be a bug.
[21:35] <cprofitt> The resolutions of problems start prior to bug reports; bug reporting is for when a problem can be identified as being caused by a bug.
[21:35] <cprofitt> Here is a link to the diagram about the Ubuntu Problem Cycle.
[21:35] <cprofitt> http://ftbeowulf.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/ubuntu-problem2.png
[21:36] <cprofitt> the diagram was just translated this week as well...
[21:36] <cprofitt> and I would appreaciate anyone willing to translate it in to their language
[21:36] <cprofitt> The Ubuntu Community has several resources for users seeking help with a problem; they are:
[21:36] <cprofitt> Ubuntu Forums - ubuntuforums.org
[21:36] <cprofitt> Ask Ubuntu - askubuntu.com
[21:36] <cprofitt> IRC - multiple channels on freenode
[21:36] <cprofitt> Ubuntu Wiki - help.ubuntu.com/community (community) or help.ubuntu.com (official)
[21:37] <cprofitt> Local Community Teams - as my friend Randal says -- boots on the ground
[21:37] <cprofitt> You see this in the first set of boxes in the diagram. If a problem is solved here it is due to a misconfiguration or a mis-understanding of what a piece of software does. I do not consider a work-a-round a solution.
[21:37] <cprofitt> if you are a developer it can help that you are familiar with these areas
[21:37] <cprofitt> it might help expose items that are not bugs, but that are causing users difficulty
[21:37] <cprofitt> for application developers looking to have their applications grow in popularity this can be crucial
[21:38] <cprofitt> You see this in the first set of boxes in the diagram. If a problem is solved here it is due to a misconfiguration or a mis-understanding of what a piece of software does. I do not consider a work-a-round a solution.
[21:38] <cprofitt> If a problem in a stable release is not solved then a user can either wait for the next release or embark on a process that in the past usually ends in frustration for them. That frustration stems from a misperception of the lifecycle.
[21:38] <cprofitt> this misundertanding is important...
[21:39] <cprofitt> and we can not, as a community, respond with phrases like RTFM
[21:39] <cprofitt> regardless of stable or development release; the most important part of bug resolution is in the triage process. Reports must be complete and accurate.
[21:39] <cprofitt> A great resource for reporting bugs can be found here:
[21:39] <cprofitt> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs
[21:40] <cprofitt> Realize that some bugs are not crashes, but unexpected behavior. As a very simple example imagine a calculator that gave a result of 5 for 2+2. It would not crash, but it would still have a bug that results in unexpected, and inaccurate, results.
[21:40] <cprofitt> For crashes application developers should strive to write error handling code that can provide the end user with meaninful data that can be reported back to the developer.
[21:41] <cprofitt> As a person who supports proprietary sofware in my day job I am very used to errors that tell me nothing more than what I already know --
[21:41] <cprofitt> like -- your app crashed
[21:41] <cprofitt> try to add information that you, as a developer, will need to find the bug
[21:41] <cprofitt> not always easy; I know
[21:42] <cprofitt> On the chart app developers would fall in the 'upstream' category. You should ensure that you have a process for bugs to be filed against your application.
[21:42] <cprofitt> App Developers also have to understand that Ubuntu will not usually push your 'patches' in to a stable release.
[21:42] <cprofitt> If you are involved in bug triage you really need to strive to be friendly and helpful to the user reporting the bug if you wish to keep them engaged. I understand that some reports are a 'waste of time', but take those as an opportunity to help the person reporting the bug learn how to complete better reports.
[21:42] <cprofitt> We also have to understand that waiting for the next release is not a 'bad' thing. Many users are coming from the Microsoft world and are used to new releases being three to five years apart. Remind yourself, and the users, that Ubuntu will put out six releases in a three year period of time. A potential six month wait is a small price to pay for the stability of the release.
[21:43] <cprofitt> so to summarize so far
[21:43] <cprofitt> Users will experience a problem (may or may not be a bug)
[21:43] <cprofitt> they will use any of the several community support resources to seek a solution
[21:43] <cprofitt> the solution could be a configuration change or a work-a-round
[21:44] <cprofitt> after that if their problem is not resolved they may choose to submit a bug report
[21:45] <cprofitt> if that bug report is against a stable release it will have to go through a stringent process before having an SRU update
[21:45] <cprofitt> if it is in a development release the liklihood of getting it fixed is much higher
[21:45] <cprofitt> and the payback for the community that much greater
[21:46] <cprofitt> this process is captured at a high level here:
[21:46] <cprofitt> http://ftbeowulf.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/ubuntu-problem2.png
[21:46] <cprofitt> any questions?
[21:48] <cprofitt> I understand this process has been very abstract...
[21:49] <cprofitt> more of a high level over-view
[21:49] <cprofitt> one thing to keep in mind is some of the potential end points for bugs
[21:50] <cprofitt> when a developer marks a bug 'will not fix' it might be a case of 'can not fix'
[21:50] <ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
[21:50] <cprofitt> consider the case of xubuntu which depends on upstream
[21:51] <cprofitt> there may be times when the upstream has decided a specific version is no longer supported
[21:51] <cprofitt> but Ubuntu promises support for an LTS beyond that point
[21:51] <ClassBot> pawel_st_ asked: One of the common complaints about ubuntu bug tracking and fixing is that there are bugs that span multiple releases and don't seem to be taken care of properly (sorry, can't give you an example from top of my head). What would you say to that critique?
[21:52] <cprofitt> properly is potentially a result of not understanding the lifecycle
[21:52] <cprofitt> once the bug is in a stable release it may not get fixed if there is the potential of it causing stability issues
[21:52] <cprofitt> in other cases, like the LTS
[21:53] <cprofitt> upstreams may not be supporting the version of the product included
[21:53] <cprofitt> the other issue is even with +1 or +2 bugs the fix might depend on an upstream developer
[21:54] <cprofitt> this is one area triagers can help
[21:54] <cprofitt> by learning how to report bugs upstream properly
[21:54] <cprofitt> or guiding the reporting end user how to report it upstream
[21:55] <cprofitt> I agree completely that the process can be frustrating when you report a bug and it does not get fixed
[21:55] <ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
[21:55] <cprofitt> I have reported bugs for four years and only twice had updates released for my reports
[21:56] <cprofitt> I think the key is really helping bug reporters have proper expectations as to how things get fixed
[21:56] <cprofitt> bugs in an SRU will rarely get fixed
[21:56] <cprofitt> bugs in +1 or +2 that are upstream will only get attention if they go upstream properly
[21:57] <cprofitt> My hope is that we can build a process of ensuring that our entire community has a overview of the process so that they have a reasonable set of expectations
[21:58] <cprofitt> to avoid the 'rage' I see in bug reports on occassion
[21:58] <cprofitt> and to avoid triager and developer burn out
[21:58] <ClassBot> kanliot asked: what is an SRU
[21:58] <cprofitt> and SRU is a Stable Release Update
[21:59] <cprofitt> when a part of the Stable Release gets a patch.... it is called an SRU
[21:59] <cprofitt> thank you to everyone who attended
[21:59] <cprofitt> I hope that this session can spark community discussion about this so we can move forward and manage our communities growth
[22:00] <ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/02/02/%23ubuntu-classroom.html