[00:03] <JohnRobert> I remember dodgy
[00:03] <JohnRobert> mind you, I'm almost 30
[00:04] <JohnRobert> and my hair is falling out
[00:20] <daftykins> JohnRobert: thank you! that's ok, i'm 26 but i know them
[02:59] <ball> What is it now, 4am?
[05:20] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Keeping The Feedback Train Rolling - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/10/11/keeping-the-feedback-train-rolling/
[05:48] <czajkowski> aloha
[06:02] <GirlyGirl> Morning
[06:04] <ball> Hello GirlyGirl
[06:05] <ball> Hey, is anyone here from Somerset, or at least somewhat familiar with it?
[06:36] <BigRedS> ball, what's the actual question?
[06:40] <danfish> morning - who broke twitter?
[06:44] <BigRedS> works for me :)
[06:50] <danfish> working here now. #blameczajkowski ;)
[06:51] <czajkowski> oi
[06:51] <popey> morning
[06:52] <danfish> czajkowski: just checking that irc wasn't bust as well
[06:52] <popey> M3 is broken this morning
[06:52] <popey> http://maps.google.co.uk/?ll=51.338334,-0.777283&spn=0.183596,0.425377&t=h&z=12&vpsrc=6&layer=t
[06:52] <danfish> ouch - you caught in it?
[06:55] <MooDoo> hello all
[06:56] <popey> no
[06:57] <popey> working from home with a sick child
[06:58] <MooDoo> :(
[07:09] <vibhav> Queens english!
[07:26] <diplo> Morning all
[07:27] <MooDoo> mornin
[07:35] <BigRedS> g'morning!
[07:39] <dwatkins> Myrtti: you should have an extra gig on spideroak now.
[07:40] <dwatkins> also, good morning all
[07:41] <Myrtti> dwatkins: ooh, wow, thank you
[07:42] <dwatkins> thank you, Myrtti - your referral was what did it :) I just mailed them to ask they add it after I'd set my account up.
[07:42] <dwatkins> They were quite responsive, considering I only have a free account.
[07:45] <AlanBell> morning all
[07:45] <dwatkins> hi AlanBell
[07:45] <shauno> the referral bonus is 1GB?   A 5.3" screen?
[07:57]  * Joeb454 thinks 4.x" is a little too big for a phone, but that's just ridiculous
[07:57] <TheOpenSourcerer> My current phone is 5.0"
[07:58] <Joeb454> TheOpenSourcerer: I guess you'd be hard pushed to forget it was in your pocket
[07:58] <TheOpenSourcerer> :-)
[07:58] <TheOpenSourcerer> Ask AlanBell about that.
[07:59] <TheOpenSourcerer> They keep saying how unique a form factor it is, but it is very similar to my Dell Streak - Just made by a better company and newer technology.
[08:00] <popey> er
[08:00] <popey> it has a pointing device
[08:01] <TheOpenSourcerer> it has an [optional] pointing device
[08:01] <TheOpenSourcerer> It's use is not necessary, but seems like a nice idea to scribble notes etc.
[08:03] <Joeb454> It's like it's trying to be a tablet, but trying to make sure it doesn't compete with the tablet market
[08:03] <Joeb454> so basically, trying to fill a gap that never really existed
[08:03]  * popey expects there will be a good market for new pointers
[08:03] <hoover> morning all
[08:03] <popey> because people lose them
[08:04] <TheOpenSourcerer> The form factor is about right for me - I use data services more than voice. But I still need voice and would like it in the same device.
[08:05] <TheOpenSourcerer> The Samsung is significantly lighter than my current Streak, yet has a bigger and much higher res screen.
[08:05] <TheOpenSourcerer> And a bigger battery ;-)
[08:07] <bigcalm> Hi peeps :)
[08:08] <popey> lo
[08:08] <popey> my new phone arrives this week ☺
[08:10] <TheOpenSourcerer> Let's have a sweepstake to guess what it will be. ;-)
[08:10] <diplo> I need a phone :( - Can't afford one and don't want to go contract so 6230i it is again :(
[08:10] <popey> heh
[08:11] <popey> I'd go back to Android if anyone made a decent phone :D
[08:12] <diplo> Galaxy S2 is decent imo, everyone I know who has one is very happy
[08:12] <Joeb454> popey: I take it you ordered a 4S?
[08:12] <diplo> couple of them prefer to iphone
[08:12] <popey> yup
[08:13] <diplo> S3 specs supposedly leaked yesterday
[08:13] <diplo> dual core 1.8ghz proc!!!! jeesh
[08:13] <popey> I have yet to hold an android phone that didnt feel like cheap plastic rubbish
[08:13] <MartijnVdS> popey: Nexus One
[08:13] <MartijnVdS> it's metal! :)
[08:13] <popey> observe 'feel'
[08:14]  * BigRedS just proved his observation that if you need coffee you're in no fit state to make it :(
[08:14] <popey> spillage?
[08:14] <MartijnVdS> popey: it feels very metal to me, compared to my previous phone (HTC Magic), which was pure plastic
[08:14] <BigRedS> hah, yeah. I just plonked the cafetiere lid on and go coffee all over the place
[08:14] <BigRedS> not on me, which is fine
[08:14] <popey> ah
[08:14] <BigRedS> though that might have woken me up somewhat
[08:17] <selinuxium> diplo, I have the S2 and it is fabulous...
[08:18] <DJones> diplo: 1.8ghz proc, sheesh, I thought the Nexus Prime was looking good with a 1.5Ghz
[08:18] <diplo> I want an s2 :/
[08:18] <MartijnVdS> I'm waiting for the Prime
[08:18] <TheOpenSourcerer> The Note is actually somewhat shorter than the Streak and is almost the in same sq mm.
[08:18] <TheOpenSourcerer> Note:
[08:18] <TheOpenSourcerer> 146.85 x 82.95 x 9.65 mm, 178g
[08:18] <TheOpenSourcerer> Streak
[08:18] <TheOpenSourcerer> 152.4 x 78.74 x 10.16 mm, 218g
[08:18] <MartijnVdS> I can't stand the "customizations"  on other phones
[08:19] <selinuxium> diplo, http://www.metro.co.uk/tech/878154-samsung-galaxy-s-ii-beats-apple-iphone-to-best-phone-at-t3-awards
[08:19] <TheOpenSourcerer> selinuxium: popey will ignore this and state categorically that the iPhone is better ;-)
[08:19] <popey> wow, thats heavy
[08:19] <popey> feel free to ignore the truth :D
[08:19] <popey> iphone is 140g
[08:20] <MartijnVdS> no it's 4g
[08:20] <MartijnVdS> :P
[08:20] <popey> wakka wakka
[08:20] <DJones> Question to always ask, does it do what you want? If Yes, its the best phone for you :)
[08:20] <MartijnVdS> Hah, but my phone can make calls.
[08:20] <TheOpenSourcerer> popey: I'm able to carry 218g around without an issue. 178g is amazing for a device of that size.
[08:21] <TheOpenSourcerer> 4 what?
[08:21] <popey> yeah, i am not that bothered by weight
[08:21] <shauno> making calls is pretty much an optional extra on mine.  I used 47 seconds out of my 300 minutes last month
[08:21] <popey> i thought the iphone 4 was considered 'heavy' though
[08:21] <diplo> DJones, I totally agree, I like the iphone
[08:21] <diplo> Itunes was a big bug bear with me
[08:22] <popey> yeah, no need for that anymore
[08:22] <popey> finally!
[08:23] <shauno> heh, it's free of itunes assuming your sole source of tunes is itms :/
[08:23] <popey> no
[08:23] <MartijnVdS> u1ms?
[08:23] <popey> spotify
[08:24] <MartijnVdS> I still can't get used to that myself
[08:24]  * gord still buys music like a smuck
[08:24] <MartijnVdS> But then, I still buy CDs
[08:24] <diplo> gord, Me to :)
[08:24] <Joeb454> +1 for spotify, though it doesn't have everything I want to listen to, it has a lot of it
[08:24] <MartijnVdS> Joeb454: youtube has the rest? :P
[08:24] <oimon> have apple removed the requirement for itunes now?
[08:24] <shauno> spotify isn't available in ireland yet :(
[08:25] <oimon> shauno: grooveshark?
[08:25] <diplo> think so oimon
[08:25] <Joeb454> MartijnVdS: awkward to listen to youtube on the go though :P
[08:25] <Joeb454> oimon: they have for the setup, and you could back-up to icloud if you didn't want to sync with itunes
[08:25] <popey> oimon: yes
[08:25] <MartijnVdS> Joeb454: Spotify on the go is iffy as well over here
[08:25] <MartijnVdS> Joeb454: you can't get "unlimited" mobile data anymore, only up to 1GB
[08:25] <Joeb454> MartijnVdS: I sync the playlists I want on the go locally to the phone
[08:25] <MartijnVdS> Joeb454: (the Netherlands)
[08:26] <Joeb454> MartijnVdS: can't get unlimited here either :(
[08:26] <popey> MartijnVdS: i sync the music to device
[08:26] <MartijnVdS> popey: I thought Spotify was all streaming?
[08:26] <popey> no
[08:26] <bigcalm> Nope
[08:26] <bigcalm> :)
[08:26] <popey> you can download
[08:26] <popey> i have thousands of tracks on my phone
[08:26] <bigcalm> But you still have to be able to login to access the content you have downloaded
[08:27] <popey> no you dont
[08:27] <popey> you can go fully offline
[08:27] <popey> you just have to go online again within a month or so
[08:27] <bigcalm> Oh, news to me :)
[08:27] <bigcalm> Ah
[08:27] <Joeb454> MartijnVdS: I believe you need spotify premium to sync locally though
[08:27] <oimon> if you unsubscribe from spotify you lose all your offline stuff i suppose?
[08:27] <bigcalm> Yes, the mobile app won't work without a premium account
[08:28] <popey> wonder if anyone has decrypted the spotify tracks :D
[08:28] <selinuxium> popey, for some reason my Spotify now requests that it is online when you start it up, making it useless for me if I want to turn it on on the tube.. Is that just me or do you have issue switching the app on while it is in force offline or the data is unavailable?
[08:28] <popey> no
[08:28] <bigcalm> ARGH!
[08:29] <bigcalm> Why is Absolute 80s playing non-80s music?
[08:29] <selinuxium> popey, no to which part?  :)
[08:29] <popey> no to having any issues with it
[08:30] <oimon> bigcalm: what song?
[08:30] <Joeb454> bigcalm: do they have a 'give or take 3 years' policy?
[08:30] <GirlyGirl> bigcalm: Maybe time machines existed in the 80's
[08:30] <bigcalm> It was a track from 2000+ era
[08:31] <bigcalm> Humm, 80s, 90s and Absolute radio all playing the same stream
[08:31] <selinuxium> popey: also, my desktop app (Native Linux) always ask for the T&Cs to be accepted on each start up. DO you use it? Is that apparent in your setup?
[08:31] <JamesTait> Good morning all!
[08:32] <oimon> bigcalm: anyone from the 80s knows you shouldn't cross the streams!
[08:32] <bigcalm> I couldn't take it. Switched to 6 music for a bit
[08:33] <oimon> Q music is quite good too
[08:33] <Joeb454> selinuxium: I've not come across that, it does tell me there was an error each time I start up, and that I'm running on an unsupported platform though
[08:34] <MartijnVdS> http://www.pinguinradio.nl/
[08:35] <popey> selinuxium: no
[08:42] <BigRedS> selinuxium: is that Spotify? I got that until I upgraded to the version that complains that I'm on an unsupported platform
[08:43] <BigRedS> This is a relatively unobtrusive bug, though, so I'm loathe to upgrde and see what's broken next
[08:55] <selinuxium> BigRedS, Hey fella, Maybe there is an update out there I haven't got... :)
[09:01] <BigRedS> selinuxium: perhaps. I've definitely not had that 'agree to the T&Cs' thing pop up since I got the unsupported platform thing
[09:01] <BigRedS> I can't remember if there was an upgrade in between, though
[09:02] <popey> selinuxium: coming out to play on thursday?
[09:03] <oimon> beefy miracle is actually the new fedora name? fantastic!
[09:03] <bigcalm> popey: got a moment free?
[09:03] <popey> ya
[09:03] <bigcalm> Cool
[09:04] <MooDoo> oimon: it took ages to get that name, we tried it for F15 but it got beat
[09:04] <oimon> i would use it in tribute
[09:04] <oimon> for one cycle only :)
[09:04] <oimon> on my test box :)
[09:04] <MooDoo> oimon: http://beefymiracle.org/
[09:05] <oimon> i want the t-shirt
[09:07] <andylockran> howdy all
[09:09] <BigRedS> If anything's going to get me to use yum again, it's that codename
[09:11] <AlanBell> MooDoo: so how did they get from Verne to Beefy Miracle?
[09:13] <MooDoo> AlanBell: Beefy Miracle is a name suggested for Fedora 16. Verne is also a name suggested for Fedora 16
[09:14] <AlanBell> how delightfully meta
[09:14] <danfish> Jules Verne invented marmite, hence the beefy reference
[09:15] <popey> wut
[09:15] <popey> marmite isnt made from beef
[09:15] <bigcalm> It's made from beer
[09:15] <AlanBell> danfish: the naming convention is "X+1 is a $foo, X is also a $foo"
[09:15] <DJones> Vegemite -> Marmite :)
[09:16] <danfish> s/marmite/bovril/taste-hell ;)
[09:16] <popey> weirdo
[09:17] <danfish> :)
[09:17]  * gord had a good giggle at everyone thinking marmite is made from cows
[09:18] <DJones> That would be "moomite"
[09:20] <bigcalm> Even bovril is made of vegetarians
[09:20] <bigcalm> s/of/for
[09:21] <BigRedS> is it?
[09:21] <BigRedS> oh, there'a a vegetarian form of it
[09:21] <DJones> To make all the ipad owners who really, really, really need an app for it, you can now get a facebook app :)
[09:21] <popey> yeah, i tried it last night
[09:22] <popey> wish google would do the same for G+
[09:22] <popey> The ipad Twitter app is hands down the best twitter app on any platform
[09:22] <DJones> There's an android app for G+ I thought they'd done an ipad app
[09:22] <popey> there's an iphone app, but not an ipad one
[09:23] <DJones> Right, that must be what I'd seen
[09:23] <BigRedS> I just want to make G+ talk or listen to Twitter
[09:24] <popey> DJones: it scales up on ipad, and looks like arse ☺
[09:24] <BigRedS> I (briefly) tried c+ping posts, and I've decided that's more hassle than I can be bothered with
[09:24] <bigcalm> You can't just use iPhone apps on an iPad?
[09:24] <bigcalm> Ah
[09:25] <popey> thats what I do bigcalm
[09:25] <popey> unless I am in a hurry
[09:25] <popey> I'll generally compose on twitter and paste over
[09:25] <popey> and even download from twitpic and re-upload to g+ and fb
[09:25] <popey> ☹
[09:25] <DJones> I think my next target for a phone is either the S3 or Nexus Prime, and a Motorola Xoom as a tablet
[09:27] <DJones> Since when does BBC official twitter accounts have adverts?
[09:28] <bigcalm> Maybe it's run like the RadioTimes
[09:30] <DJones> Wierd, even stranger is that I don't have that BBc account on my "follow" list
[09:31] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[09:31] <bigcalm> Retweeted by somebody else then
[09:31] <bigcalm> Hi brobostigon
[09:32] <brobostigon> morning DJones
[09:32] <brobostigon> morning bigcalm
[09:32] <brobostigon> sorry DJones
[09:32] <DJones> Ah, sorted, somebody sent a personal tweet advertising giffgaf from their bbc twitter account by mistake
[09:33] <oimon> i like it when the official account of big companies sent pocket tweets Xisjods,cfsd that don't get deleted
[09:53] <oimon> wow, libreoffice up to 3.4 already. http://www.libreoffice.org/download/3-4-new-features-and-fixes/
[09:55] <davmor2> morning all
[09:55] <MooDoo> morning davmor2
[09:56] <davmor2> MooDoo: I'm so happy your back dude :)  So czajkowski she said so, and so's gord cause now czajkowski isn't picking on him in your stead :)
[09:57]  * czajkowski sends davmor2 and MooDoo to the naughty step
[09:57] <czajkowski> brats
[09:57] <BigRedS> me really wishes people would take advantage of sensible defaults
[09:57]  * MooDoo has a crush on czajkowski :)
[09:57] <BigRedS> er. /me
[09:58] <davmor2> czajkowski: we're there already just waiting on you're arrival shouldn't take long
[09:58] <czajkowski> MooDoo: lack of sleep is showing there lad
[09:58] <AlanBell> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1283/detail/ loadsa people
[09:58] <MooDoo> czajkowski: yeah i think so, but it was a compliment as well :D
[09:59] <davmor2> MooDoo: how was your lens have you done it yet?
[09:59] <MooDoo> 22nd oct
[10:20] <davmor2> hahaha I like thisisthecountdown.com today
[10:20] <andylockran> I'm just massively confused by it.
[10:21] <Joeb454> andylockran: me too
[10:21] <AlanBell> http://askubuntu.com/questions/64284/what-does-thisisthecountdown-com-count-down-to
[10:21] <andylockran> AlanBell: that doesn't help :p
[10:22] <AlanBell> the hex codes of the colours in those vertical bars are a clue
[10:22] <AlanBell> they can be decoded to a URL
[10:22] <Joeb454> AlanBell: what about the error code?
[10:22] <AlanBell> 0x575341 is HEX for WSA
[10:24] <AlanBell> 484558 is hex for hex
[10:24] <AlanBell> which is pointing you to decode the colour bars
[10:25] <bigcalm> #4A2E6D #702F61 #65726F #737061 #636572
[10:25] <oimon> i think there's a irc room for this
[10:26] <AlanBell> #awholenewworld
[10:26] <bigcalm> Nothing else going on in here ;)
[10:27] <AlanBell> bigcalm: now put that in the hex box here http://home2.paulschou.net/tools/xlate/ and decode
[10:27] <AlanBell> J.mp/aerospacer which is a URL
[10:28] <bigcalm> Haha
[10:28] <bigcalm> No flash, time to download
[10:29] <oimon> does anyone know why i can't "telnet mailserver 25" from a windows server? the firewall is off
[10:29] <andylockran> oimon: probably isp blocking port 25?
[10:29] <oimon> on my internal network, all other linux clients can do it
[10:30] <MooDoo> what's the error?
[10:30] <oimon> oh, i disabled mcafee on access protection and it works
[10:31] <oimon> there's some hidden configs that are to stop mass emailing worms
[10:32] <AlanBell> really pleased at 34-59 people signed up to the release party on Thursday
[10:32] <bigcalm> I won't be able to make it :(
[10:33] <bigcalm> Plugging my headphones into my android tablet is giving some seriously good sounds. Better than having them plugged into my work station
[10:33] <bigcalm> Most strange
[10:34] <bigcalm> Nice music, I could see it being used in tv adverts or a film presentation
[10:35] <davmor2> AlanBell: all that for that I depressed now
[10:36] <AlanBell> davmor2: that is just the next clue, not the end of the game
[10:37] <davmor2> AlanBell: oh man there's more....../me needs to deaf it out now and go do some work
[10:37]  * czajkowski kicks davmor2
[10:39] <MooDoo> that wasn't nice czajkowski
[10:41] <monsterrr> OK I need to know my history
[10:41] <monsterrr> on the british side of computing
[10:41] <monsterrr> any recommeded sites, books, articles ?
[10:41] <MooDoo> wikipedia ;)
[10:41] <monsterrr> meh
[10:41] <oimon> monsterr  watch micromen , a bbc programme
[10:42] <oimon> acorn vs sinclair
[10:42] <MooDoo> how about reading up on blechly park :)
[10:42] <oimon> and read register articles on acorn and psion
[10:42] <oimon> plus the world's first stored instruction  computer at Manchester
[10:43] <brobostigon> do i need to logout/login for update-alternatives changes to kick in?
[10:44] <monsterrr> I'm on it :)
[10:45] <oimon> have fun monsterrr, those were great days :D
[10:45] <bigcalm> Maybe they are going to shoot sabofl into space?
[10:46] <bigcalm> sabdfl
[10:46] <GirlyGirl> AlanBell: Is your experience on 11.10 good? All GTK 3 apps have a laggy UI for me
[10:46] <brobostigon> sabdfl*
[10:46] <directhex> micro men is split into bits on youtube, fwiw
[10:46] <AlanBell> GirlyGirl: working fine so far
[10:46] <davmor2> monsterrr: Goto Bletchley Park!
[10:47] <monsterrr> I live near it I think
[10:47] <bigcalm> I like to go, not sure if Hayley would be that interested though
[10:47] <davmor2> bigcalm: My wife a non tech loved it,  the tour guides really bring it to life
[10:48] <oimon> how much does it cost?
[10:48] <bigcalm> Aha, cool
[10:48] <oimon> is it ok to take toddlers to?
[10:48] <monsterrr> can you actually go in the buliding
[10:48] <DJones> My wife would be totally bored, if it doesn't run facebook or 2nd life, she's not interested
[10:49] <AlanBell> bletchly is cool
[10:49] <brobostigon> :)
[10:50] <oimon> adults  £12.00, parking £3
[10:50] <oimon> All tickets for Bletchley Park are now valid for as many visits you would like during the 12 month period from time of purchase
[10:50] <directhex> bletchley is cool, yeah
[10:50] <directhex> well, as cool as it can be given it's in milton keynes now
[10:51] <brobostigon> directhex: do i have to logout/login for update-alternatives to take affect?
[10:51] <oimon> i need to read the enigma book first to get the most out of it. i'm on page 1 :-\
[10:51] <directhex> brobostigon, no. update-laternatives just changes symlinks in /usr/bin
[10:52] <brobostigon> directhex: ok, thank you.
[10:53] <brobostigon> issue being, when i try and open a url, from terminal, it isnt obaying, what i set in update-alternatives.
[10:53] <directhex> opening it with what?
[10:54] <brobostigon> it open with iceweasel, insted of inside chromium, that i have it set to.
[10:54] <directhex> there are five places the default browser might be read from.
[10:54] <brobostigon> ok.
[10:55] <directhex> x-www-browser alternative, www-browser alternative, $BROWSER environment, gnome default applications widget, and the kde equivalent
[10:55] <directhex> gnome-default-applications-properties
[10:55] <brobostigon> www-browser is set to w3m.
[10:55] <directhex> run that, check which browser it's set to
[10:56] <brobostigon> i checked that one, quickly.
[10:56] <brobostigon> $browser, that in bash config, minute.
[10:56] <andylockran> guys, I want to receive an email, each time /usr/bin/convert is run
[10:57] <andylockran> if I create a /usr/local/bin/convert - can I get that to email me, then run /usr/bin/convert on what was passed to the command?
[10:57] <andylockran> or is there a more 'elegant' way ?
[10:58] <brobostigon> directhex: there is no $BROWSER set, in bashrc that i can see.
[10:58] <directhex> nope, that's the normal way
[10:58] <directhex> brobostigon, dunno then. might be set in another place
[10:58] <directhex> linux is fun!
[10:58] <brobostigon> directhex: i am just checking gnomes default settings.
[11:00] <brobostigon> weird, in gnome's default applications thingie, all other options are chooseable, other than web browser, which is blanked out.
[11:03] <oimon> brobostigon: probably a new feature :D 20% of users didn't use it or something
[11:04] <brobostigon> oimon: that is not logical, as the other default options, are there, and changable. if you logic is right, then why show the option at all, blanked out or otherwise.
[11:04] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: probably because you don't have multiple browsers installed?
[11:04] <oimon> i was joking , based on the other silly gnome choices
[11:05] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i stripped everything back to a single browser. also there is only one mail client installed, mutt, and it is giving me a dropdown, as if there is more than one option. not blanked out.
[11:05] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: hm, strange
[11:06] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: quite, yes.
[11:07] <andylockran> or is there a more 'elegant' way ?
[11:08] <oimon> when i ask users "have you changed your password in the last 3 years", i wish they wouldn't lie if they aren't sure :-\
[11:10] <MartijnVdS> oimon: it's a shame thing -- they know they SHOULD say "yes, I have"
[11:10] <AlanBell> !info tsclient
[11:11] <AlanBell> !info tsclient oneiric
[11:11] <AlanBell> E: Package 'tsclient' has no installation candidate
[11:13] <AlanBell> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tsclient
[11:30] <MooDoo> bloomin eck what a day so far
[11:33] <bigcalm> In PHP, you can set the local timezone to be UTC (or whatever) so that all time manipulation functions make sense no matter where they are done in the world. Is it possible to do the same with JavaScript?
[11:36] <diplo> bigcalm, afaik you can't
[11:37] <diplo> But there is a file called php.js that implements php functions in js
[11:37] <diplo> Just found after a quick look round
[11:37] <bigcalm> Found http://stackoverflow.com/questions/439630/how-do-you-create-a-javascript-date-object-with-a-set-timezone-without-using-a-st
[11:37] <bigcalm> Wondering if the top answer will help
[11:38] <bigcalm> Yeah, php.js is great. Not sure about setting of local timezones though
[11:38] <diplo> I've never used it, or had this issue so far, so not the best answer
[11:39] <diplo> Seems others wouldn't touchphp.js with a barge pole
[11:39] <bigcalm> :)
[11:41] <gord> huh, pm got major isp's to make pornography websites opt in, scary times.
[11:42] <gord> wonder what will get blocked next
[11:43] <brobostigon> social networking?
[11:43] <brobostigon> using the recent riots as an excuse,
[11:45] <oimon> drains?
[11:46] <brobostigon> beer?
[11:51] <czajkowski> AlanBell: the nice gatwick flight is gone for the winter :(
[11:52] <AlanBell> oh noes
[11:57]  * AlanBell wonders if czajkowski will be coming round for turkey
[11:57] <czajkowski> AlanBell: so getting the boat
[11:57] <czajkowski> have warned the mothership
[11:57] <czajkowski> not going through that flight lark again
[11:57] <AlanBell> which boat?
[11:58] <czajkowski> ferry from hollyhead to dublin
[11:58] <AlanBell> probably best that time of year, Cork is a long crossing
[12:00] <shauno> curious, flight lark?  never had a problem getting in & out myself
[12:01] <AlanBell> never follow czajkowski to an airport
[12:01] <shauno> heh.  gotcha
[12:01] <Pendulum> shauno: you missed the saga of czajkowski flying home in the snow
[12:01] <Pendulum> which turned into czajkowski taking the boat in the snow
[12:01] <czajkowski> look that saga haunts me
[12:01] <czajkowski> reason I will not fly out of heathrow!
[12:01] <Pendulum> it was an epic tale ;-)
[12:02] <czajkowski> http://www.lczajkowski.com/2010/12/21/
[12:02] <shauno> it is a shame they've all but given up on Shannon tho.  that always made my life much easier
[12:02]  * MartijnVdS now has the ubuntu monospace font in his terminals
[12:02] <czajkowski> http://www.lczajkowski.com/2010/12/22/
[12:02] <czajkowski> I can go via stansted
[12:02] <czajkowski> but that's a 6am flight
[12:03] <MooDoo> czajkowski: was going to say sounds like you're having fun until i read the date :)
[12:06] <shauno> good lord, that does read like an epic trip.  luckily they don't get snowed in /that/ often
[12:07] <shauno> reminds me, I really should try to figure out how I'm going to get home this christmas, since aer arann have stopped flying to newcastle :(
[12:08] <czajkowski> shauno: aye the kicker was dublin, 3 carriage train and it broke down no reaso given what so ever then it started
[12:09] <czajkowski> mum greated with trains planes and automobiles....... too soon, went to bed
[12:09] <czajkowski> than feck I had twitter to let off steam
[12:09] <czajkowski> it was an entertaining few days
[12:10] <shauno> trains here are odd.  they're either completely fine, or completely catastrophic.  never anywhere in between
[12:10] <shauno> (besides the fact they're only any use if you're going to dublin.  otherwise it's a bus)
[12:11] <czajkowski> well sister had me booked on that train
[12:11] <czajkowski> as there was a snow storm
[12:11] <czajkowski> I dont want to relive that ever again
[12:11] <czajkowski> saying that I got offers from people via twitter of places to stay for xmas if I stayed over
[12:11] <czajkowski> my dad at one point said stay over here
[12:11] <czajkowski> at which point I'm pretty sure I heard a shrill cry from the mothership
[12:15] <shauno> mother keeps asking when I'm going to visit :/  unfortunately the answer is "when you don't live in alaska"
[12:27] <gordonjcp> shauno: heh
[12:54] <dwatkins> my mother keeps threatening to drive 400 miles and visit me. She'll have to stay in a hotel, though, as we have no spare bed anymore and pet rats in the lounge ;)
[13:02] <shauno> what's stopping her?  400 miles is nothing!
[13:34] <czajkowski> pet rats.........
[13:35] <MooDoo> yuck
[13:41] <popey> pet rats are cute
[13:41] <oimon> neither cute nor tasty
[13:42] <oimon> and they eat your clothes
[13:42] <MooDoo> rat burger
[13:43] <czajkowski> http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/04_03/pygmyhedgWEB1504_468x549.jpg
[13:43] <czajkowski> that#s cute
[13:43] <czajkowski> a rat is not cute and is not a pet have shivers gone down my back
[13:43] <oimon> latest humble bundle doesn't work with intel gfx cards :-\
[13:43] <oimon> hedgehogs have fleas and ticks
[13:44] <oimon> and it is showing you its bum
[13:44] <MooDoo> czajkowski: you're nuts
[13:45]  * GirlyGirl thinks oimon is criticising her pet hedgehog
[13:45] <MooDoo> czajkowski: oops sorry missread that
[13:45]  * MooDoo needs sleep as today he's being an ass
[14:01] <TheOpenSourcerer> Oooh - Don't think Spotify's model is sustainable like this: http://www.forbes.com/sites/parmyolson/2011/10/11/spotify-loses-42-million-on-licensing-costs/
[14:02] <gord> well thats interesting, i remember reading something the other day that claimed artists were getting next to nothing from spotify
[14:02] <gord> hugely popular songs getting maybe a few hundred dollars or some such
[14:08] <ali1234> just because the licensing fees are huge doesn't mean any of it goes to the artists
[14:18] <AlanBell> nice to have a business that pays money for people to listen to music
[14:21] <oimon> hmm thames water "upgraded" their pipes and broke my water meter
[14:21] <oimon> they don't know how much water i've used
[14:22] <diplo> Will probably estimate it on last few months usage then oimon ?
[14:22] <oimon> diplo: yeah, they broke it in april
[14:23] <diplo> :/
[14:23] <oimon> could have had free water all summer
[14:23] <diplo> You know with a company like that it won't be writ off :P
[14:23] <oimon> :(
[14:23] <oimon> they broke it too
[14:23] <diplo> Who knows, you may be lucky
[14:24] <oimon> no..they will estimate...except they never read my meter, it is always estimated
[14:24] <ali1234> united utilities claimed i used £1000 of water in like 6 months
[14:24] <oimon> so the estimates will be based on estimates
[14:24] <ali1234> i challenged them to show me the meter
[14:25] <ali1234> after about a year of failing to do so they wrote it off
[14:25] <oimon> i was able to take a photo of my meter because it was completely unattached to any pipe
[14:25] <oimon> and my neighbours one was sitting in my front garden
[14:28] <oimon> does anyone know what an oystercard statement is?
[14:29] <ali1234> yeah
[14:29] <ali1234> it's a statement ... for your oystercard
[14:29] <oimon> except they don't exist, although i'm being asked for one :-\
[14:31]  * oimon munches on licorice to cheer himself up when dealing with customer service
[14:31] <diplo> Dont use Oyster, but can you retrieve it online
[14:31] <oimon> maybe cos i have a season ticket, it doesn't actually tell me anything
[14:33] <AlanBell> if you register your card you can get a statement
[14:34] <oimon> it's definitely registered. no journeys appear on my history either (not a bad thing)
[14:47] <shauno> that bugged me; I couldn't register my oyster card without a UK address
[14:48] <oimon> oyster is a bit flawed really
[14:48] <shauno> you'd think London of all places would realize that not everyone's a lcoal
[14:49] <oimon> no photocards either now with oyster
[14:50] <shauno> photocards?
[14:50] <oimon> if you have a season ticket, there is nothing on the ticket to identify the owner
[14:50] <shauno> ah
[14:50] <shauno> that would seem ripe for abuse
[14:50] <oimon> therefore if you put the oystercards in a drawer, you don't know if you are picking up a PAYG or season ticket
[14:51] <shauno> grab a sharpie: fix it!
[14:51] <oimon> any whether they care about family members sharing? maybe the non-transferable thing was to avoid resale in the old days
[14:51] <funkyHat> They are fine with sharing your oyster card with anyone
[14:51] <oimon> funkyHat: PAYG they are, but prob not season tickets
[14:52] <oimon> although a weekly pass does not have to be registered
[14:52] <funkyHat> I think they say you can't use it on the same day someone else has or something, but I see no way they would possibly bother to check up on that
[14:52] <popey> i thought weekly didnt need a photo but monthly and above does
[14:52] <oimon> red ken probably set up a spooks-style monitoring centre
[14:52] <popey> has that changed?
[14:52] <oimon> popey: i have a yearly, no photo on mine
[14:53] <funkyHat> I cycle mostly so season tickets don't make sense for me
[14:53] <oimon> student and discount cards require a photo
[14:53] <shauno> payg makes sense for me, since I don't live on the same island :p
[14:54] <oimon> i will deregister my card if ken got back in
[14:54] <shauno> I only have one because it saves me trying to find change in the right currency the minute I land
[14:55] <popey> oimon: the photo isnt on the card, there's a number which refers to the photo card
[14:55] <popey> oh, you talking oyster or rail?
[14:55] <oimon> both
[14:55] <oimon> popey: oyster annual
[14:55] <oimon> not the old school rail card
[14:56] <oimon> i travel by rail but use my oyster to do it
[14:59] <oimon> interesting article on slashdot re: german govt spyware
[15:15] <andylockran> hey guys
[15:15] <andylockran> anyone know if there's an ubuntu preferred technology similar to gluster?
[15:18] <bigcalm> Weird. The Linux Spotify client just told me I was using an unsupported platform
[15:19] <andylockran> bigcalm: moi aussi, yesterday
[15:19] <bigcalm> Say what?
[15:20] <diplo> bigcalm, "me to"
[15:20] <diplo> = moi aussi
[15:20] <bigcalm> I see
[15:20] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Kwabena Aning] Web frameworks for Scala - http://blog.kaning.co.uk/archives/316
[15:20] <bigcalm> Not sure which language that was
[15:20] <diplo> Or me also probably better
[15:20] <diplo> French
[15:21] <diplo> Just been teaching my 5 year old some french
[15:21]  * bigcalm shrinks away
[15:21] <diplo> I'm limited so he isn't going to learn much :D
[15:21] <AlanBell> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1340/detail/  <- installfest
[15:25] <ball> diplo: I think fork knows more Spanish than I do.
[15:29] <diplo> :D
[15:30] <diplo> I can understand spoken french, it's me speaking it that lacks
[15:30] <diplo> Can even read it to some degree
[15:30] <oimon> i managed to pick up french while working in a french company
[15:30] <oimon> by osmosis
[15:31] <popey> ball: Too much Dora?
[15:31] <ball> popey: Si!
[15:31] <popey> :D
[15:32] <shauno> I can read french without feeling like a complete idiot.  anything spoken just goes straight past me tho :/
[15:32] <BigRedS> I'm still amazed every time I install Ubuntu and it's done in about five minutes
[15:32] <BigRedS> it's almost quicker than cping a vm image
[15:32] <gord> if you are not speaking english to me, i will just be louder. it is all i know
[15:33] <shauno> I used to hate that, until I started dealing with singapore on a regular basis.  They seem to speak faster if I didn't catch them the first time around.  Now I think louder would actually be preferable
[15:34] <BigRedS> haha
[15:34] <BigRedS> I just switch to WWII film quotes
[15:34] <BigRedS> that _never_ goes down well
[15:34] <BigRedS> surprisingly, it's worse in France than it is in Germany, though.
[15:35] <andylockran> sorry, back to the pre-French question - any preference on ubntu clustered filesystems - or should I just invest in a SAN ?
[15:36]  * BigRedS votes san
[15:36] <BigRedS> I argue too much with ocfs/drbd to wish it upon anybody else
[15:36] <diplo> Only experience I have had is a SAN I'm afriad, so can't compare
[15:36] <BigRedS> I've never used a san, but the concept seems a lot more sound
[15:38] <oimon> i use a iscsi SAN for my VM farm
[15:38] <oimon> performance is excellent
[15:39] <andylockran> ah, ok
[15:39] <diplo> EMC talked us out of iSCSI when we bought ours, wish we had gone down that route as well
[15:39] <oimon> depends on your budget
[15:39] <oimon> i use equallogic
[15:39] <andylockran> ok, I'm looking at around £500-£1000 I think
[15:40] <oimon> rather than the 15-20k i had :P
[15:40] <andylockran> :P
[15:40] <diplo> Ours was 120k well for that and the secondary :)
[15:41] <oimon> diplo: i think EMC ripped you off :)
[15:41] <oimon> was it before the days that Dell owned EQL?
[15:41] <diplo> I think so yeah
[15:41] <Azelphur> woo, latest oneiric really breaks sound for me
[15:42] <oimon> my old company managed to get 3 SANs for almost nothing in a deal similar to selling eggs in Catch 22
[15:42] <BigRedS> haha
[15:43] <diplo> Was a CX3-20 and a CX3-10
[15:43] <diplo> Arefurbished part for one ( controller is going for £1200 ) let a lone the drives and rest of the equipment
[15:44] <oimon> anyone have experience with samba locking and XLS spreadsheets ? a spreasheet gets getting set read-only and i'm not sure if it's user misoperation or samba options
[15:45] <Azelphur> might actually be latest wines fault, looks like they've made some huge sound changes o.O
[16:03] <oimon> just looked in the mirror for the first time today and discovered i've had really bad hair all day
[16:04] <andylockran> dmesg
[16:05]  * andylockran has bad hair also
[16:05] <DJones> That reminds me, I need a haircut
[16:11] <Azelphur> Anyone else on wine 1.3.30 confirm that wine now requires a lock on sound?
[16:16] <MartijnVdS> it seems to\
[16:16] <MartijnVdS> well not require
[16:16] <MartijnVdS> it just takes it if it can
[16:16] <MartijnVdS> and won't play sound if it can't
[16:16] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: haha, and if not no sound?
[16:16] <Azelphur> yea
[16:16] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: 1.3.28-0ubuntu1 btw
[16:17] <MartijnVdS> oneiric-current
[16:17] <Azelphur> 1.3.28 doesn't have the issue, it's 1.3.30 that I have problems with
[16:17] <MartijnVdS> Then my windows app is teh suck ;)
[16:17] <Azelphur> maybe :D
[16:39] <MartijnVdS> heh https://twitter.com/#!/qikipedia/status/123786909699944448
[16:40] <shauno> heh .. I liked https://twitter.com/#!/Queen_UK/status/123438349569630208
[16:40] <MartijnVdS> 8-)
[16:47] <HazRPG> shauno:  xD @ Queen_UK's status
[17:29] <shauno> I'm wondering if this rain's going to stop any time soon, or if I should be building an ark.  5 days constant.  ugh.
[17:34] <jacobw> i think 5 days is when you should start building a ark
[18:01] <dwatkins> whereabouts are you, shauno?
[18:01] <shauno> the atlantic coast of ireland
[18:02] <shauno> it's pretty much the Hebrides with less snow, weather-wise
[18:02] <danfish> I went there once for a week and it only rained twice...once for 3 days and again for 4 days :/
[18:03] <shauno> it's just wearing a bit thin because it's not even mixing it up a bit.  just the same *cough* day in, day out
[18:04] <shauno> I don't even mind when it decides to throw the furniture around the garden.   just mix it up a bit
[18:12] <danfish> sounds grim
[18:38] <MartijnVdS> m
[18:39] <MartijnVdS> I did _something_ that made arrows show up on all corners of the window
[18:39] <MartijnVdS> (resizing arrows)
[18:39] <MartijnVdS> and in the middle of all sides
[18:40] <shauno> like the indicators you get when you mouseover?  or like drag handles
[18:40] <MartijnVdS> no bigger
[18:40] <MartijnVdS> Purple circles, 1cm across with arrows in them
[18:40] <MartijnVdS> on all sides at once
[18:40] <MartijnVdS> *aubergine
[18:41] <shauno> interesting.  let me know when you figure out what you fat-fingered, might make it easier to resize Terminal :)
[18:41] <MartijnVdS> three-finger move on touchpad maybe?
[18:41] <MartijnVdS> that seems to be it
[19:02] <AlanBell> wow, I have three finger window dragging
[19:04] <SuprEngr> sounds pornographic
[19:04] <Azelphur> do want
[19:04] <AlanBell> SuprEngr: I can assure you I am not dragging porn :)
[19:05] <SuprEngr> AlanBell, ;D
[19:05] <AlanBell> or dressed in drag
[19:06] <AlanBell> ooh, even more interesting, it is window dragging without moving focus
[19:07] <AlanBell> or raising the dragged window
[19:08] <AlanBell> and after drag is initiated you can take two fingers off
[19:08]  * SuprEngr has tried this - worked out it would be better *with* a touch screen
[19:09] <AlanBell> true
[19:09]  * SuprEngr giggles
[19:11] <czajkowski> bleugh soooo full
[19:13] <SuprEngr> thinks... touch screens need a utility for degreasing - like degaussing for CRTs
[19:13] <SuprEngr> boing!.... grease gone
[19:15] <MartijnVdS> SuprEngr++
[19:15] <AlanBell> it could double as a remote electric shock device
[19:15] <SuprEngr> podcast in 15  :)
[19:16] <SuprEngr> - discussion tonight - electric shock
[19:18] <SuprEngr> any foul ups - touch the screen - boooiinnnngg! - shock!
[19:30]  * gord just wasted far too much of his life playing with the new cheese in oneiric, far too much fun http://ubuntuone.com/5LUF76R0Zaw3mQ1txk5Al5
[19:30] <Azelphur> gord looking good XD
[19:31] <gord> seriously, there are so many filters, i could waste hours playing in this thing
[19:36] <gord> http://ubuntuone.com/1Ny01x8UDt7wPdKH2otESN :D
[19:37] <smittix> evening all
[19:38] <smittix> Don't suppose anyone is interested in a Power Mac G5, Quad Core Xeon 2.66?
[19:38] <smittix> evening all
[19:38] <smittix> Don't suppose anyone is interested in a Power Mac G5, Quad Core Xeon 2.66?
[19:39] <mgdm> two machines?
[19:39] <mgdm> two machines?
[19:39] <mgdm> it's either a G5 or a Xeon :)
[19:39] <mgdm> it's either a G5 or a Xeon :)
[19:41] <smittix> mgdm: Just pulled the info from system information :/
[19:41] <smittix> Say's Quad Core Xeon Processor?
[19:42] <mgdm> Then it's not a PowerMac G5, it's an Intel Mac Pro
[19:42] <shauno> 	he's right, and calling it a mac pro will do you wonders trying to sell it
[19:42] <smittix> heh
[19:42] <smittix> Sorry about that
[19:42] <mgdm> G5s are PPC CPUs
[19:43] <mgdm> They got rid of those a few years ago - if it's an Intel, it's probably still worth a fair chunk
[19:43] <smittix> look similar too.
[19:43] <smittix> I was going to sell it for 200 quid :/
[19:43] <mgdm> duuuude
[19:43] <mgdm> check eBay out and get the real price :)
[19:43] <shauno> G5 are politely described as "legacy".  xeon is a whole 'nother story
[19:43] <mgdm> (though I'll have it for 200 quid ;)
[19:44] <shauno> hah.  I'd have it for 200.  the case sells for more than that.
[19:44] <smittix> To be honest, I just want to get rid of it.
[19:44] <smittix> Suck it on swapz.co.uk
[19:44] <mgdm> might as well get its proper value
[19:45] <shauno> aye.  moving it's one thing.  cheating yourself is quite another.  macs defy the norm when it comes to resale value
[19:45] <mgdm> smittix: try "quad core mac pro" in a search on eBay. You're looking at the best part of a grand.
[19:46] <mgdm> possibly more.
[19:46] <smittix> woah
[19:47] <smittix> Just looked on ebay..
[19:47] <mgdm> Now you see? :)
[19:47] <smittix> Indeed!
[19:49] <smittix> so, anyone interested in a Intel Mac Pro Quad? ;)
[19:49] <smittix> heh
[19:49] <mgdm> Not now that you know what it's worth ;)
[19:49] <shauno> you ruined it for everyone :(
[19:49] <shauno> I'll still give you 200 quid for it   lol
[19:50] <smittix> lol
[19:50] <smittix> The hassle of ebay and such puts me off.
[19:52] <bkerensa> 32-bit is better
[19:52] <bkerensa> :D
[19:52] <mgdm> smittix: perhaps, but...
[19:57] <ali1234> how can you confuse a G5 for a mac pro
[19:58] <Azelphur> ali1234: did you find a good g15 applet for testing with?
[19:58] <ali1234> no
[19:59] <Azelphur> lol
[19:59] <Azelphur> also how do you set the button states?
[19:59]  * Myrtti stabs the local DSLAM
[19:59] <Myrtti> http://bit.ly/od4EhT
[20:02] <ali1234> i dunno what "button states" means
[20:03] <Azelphur> ali1234: how do I press a button in the dll library
[20:04] <smittix> mgdm: Yeah, I will stick it on see what I get. Id be happy with a swap for a decent laptop.
[20:04] <bkerensa> :(
[20:06] <Azelphur> ah, found it in the header file
[20:06] <bigcalm> Just tried Unity (11.04) on my 3 screen setup. Didn't work so well. Wonder if 11.10 will work any better
[20:18] <silner> I've still not got used to Unity bigcalm and it has crashed once or twice, the first crashes I've ever had with Ubuntu actually
[20:21] <bigcalm> Really regretting having just tried Unity now
[20:21] <bigcalm> It's messed with my window manager settings
[20:21] <bigcalm> Nothing has window controls on the 2nd and 3rd screens
[20:23] <bigcalm> argh
[20:26] <bigcalm> All fixed by using "Ubuntu classic without effects"
[20:28] <AlanBell> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15260534 sound advice
[20:30] <bigcalm> Think I'll work from home during the games
[20:30] <MartijnVdS> I think I might skip London next year, and visit some other part of the country :)
[20:32] <bigcalm> Time for a 3rd play of the recent DJ Shadow album
[20:43] <jacobw> MartijnVdS: have you looked at where else yet?
[21:52] <_janen> #edinhacklab
[23:36] <AlanBell> #ubuntu-release-party is open
[23:40] <ali1234> is it scrolling 3 lines per second yet?
[23:59] <shauno> AlanBell: if you're still curious, http://oneil.me.uk/Voiceover.mov .. that's capital vee, lower case all else.  that's me babbling thru an a11y install of osx-client


[08:17] <surfzoid> Hi
[08:18] <surfzoid> since yesterday, no build started, there is a start command from my local machine?
[10:14] <RikMills> surfzoid: no email confirming the PPA upload?
[10:15] <RikMills> if not, then maybe you did not debsign with your gpg key registered in launchpad
 "if not, then maybe you did not..." <- yes that's was another key from another machine, it should be nice to have a error message!!
[10:41] <RikMills> it would :/
[10:46] <surfzoid> RikMills: but not, after a lot of hours of reshearch i find a bug report about that
[10:48] <surfzoid> RikMills: https://askubuntu.com/questions/26129/upload-to-ppa-succeeded-but-packages-doesnt-appear
[10:48] <surfzoid> i waited from yesterday and could be many years
[14:42] <surfzoid> after day and day i got qt 5.15 build, but it take an amazing time to be published!https://launchpad.net/~surfzoid/+archive/ubuntu/qt515-arm64/+packages
[15:25] <surfzoid> again crazy, i got the debs : https://ppa.launchpadcontent.net/surfzoid/qt515-arm64/ubuntu/pool/main/q/qtmultimedia-opensource-src/ i added my qt5 ppa, but launchpad canot find the deb : https://launchpadlibrarian.net/667264625/buildlog_ubuntu-focal-arm64.qtvsplayer_1.0.41~202305211502~ubuntu20.04.1_BUILDING.txt.gz


[07:44] <xnox> ScottK: sure. I understand that. But it should be possible to select a combination of sessions on the Qt front end. Cause we must have X, wayland, xmir, mir, at the least.


 It is a very handy utility available with the windows drivers for this mouse pad
[10:03] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Gareth France] Business Biscotti Slough West  10th April 2012 - http://cliftonts.co.uk/cubuntu/?p=149
[10:29] <Myrtti> scramble on toast and tea... mmm.
[10:30] <Myrtti> Finland has an egg shortage :-(
[10:30] <gordonjcp> get some hens
[10:30] <gordonjcp> AlanBell: will post you some
[10:30]  * AlanBell has a poorly hen :(
[10:31] <AlanBell> Myrtti: you can pop round to get some eggs any time you like
[10:31] <Myrtti> gordonjcp: a) I live in an apartment block here b) they wouldn't survive the winter
[10:31] <gordonjcp> of course they would
[10:32] <Myrtti> AlanBell: if we end up attending the BBQ our glorious leader has planned, I might!
[10:32] <gordonjcp> you'd just need to make sure their henhouse was reasonably insulated
[10:32] <Myrtti> gordonjcp: which returns us to point a)
[10:32] <AlanBell> which BBQ is that? the Debian one?
[10:33] <Myrtti> the 21st birthday I assume you've been invited to
[10:33] <Myrtti> and you are
[10:33] <gordonjcp> Myrtti: ah, they don't need a lot of space
[10:34] <Myrtti> gordonjcp: I think it might be against the housing rules and the rules laid out by my landlord
[10:34] <Myrtti> anyway
[10:35] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[10:35] <gordonjcp> Myrtti: not allowed pets?
[10:36] <Myrtti> gordonjcp: I had guinea pigs, but they're quiet. Besides there aren't any chicken sold as pets here.
[10:36] <AlanBell> start a trend
[10:37] <AlanBell> business opportunity for a modified Finnish Eglu
[10:40] <gordonjcp> genius
[10:41] <AlanBell> it is the macbook pro of chicken houses
[10:42] <Myrtti> awww, they have a picture of a guinea pig at omlets website...
[10:42] <AlanBell> pretty, desireable, expensive and unmodifiable
[10:42] <Myrtti> awwwwwwww.
[10:42]  * brobostigon imagines, warm day, SPlAT, dead chicken.
[10:42] <ali1234> guinea pig omlette?
[10:42] <AlanBell> I want a beehaus
[10:42] <gordonjcp> brobostigon: ?
[10:43] <brobostigon> gordonjcp: eglu, ice.
[10:43] <gordonjcp> ah
[10:43] <AlanBell> brobostigon: eglu is plastic
[10:43] <brobostigon> AlanBell: ah, ok, sorry.
[10:43] <AlanBell> http://www.omlet.co.uk/shop/shop.php?cat=Eglu
[10:43] <gordonjcp> brobostigon: it's why eskimos don't have housewarming parties though
[10:43] <brobostigon> gordonjcp: haha :)
[10:45] <AlanBell> 14 ladies Tshirts and 1 mens tshirt
[10:46] <AlanBell> and it is small only
[10:47] <brobostigon> i see, they do look, interesting.
[10:49] <Myrtti> the hampster house looks nice too
[10:52] <AlanBell> oh noes, I am going to miss the BBQ Myrtti, I will be at UDS
[10:52] <Myrtti> aw.
[10:52] <AlanBell> or hanging out in San Francisco
[10:52] <Myrtti> D will be returning from SF few days before
[10:52] <Myrtti> that's why we're "maybe" going, not "yes" going
[11:00] <Myrtti> and yeah, http://www.bhwt.org.uk/cms/enriched-cages-and-colony-eggs/ this is the reason why we have egg shortage
[11:08] <Myrtti> guinea pig egg cup ;___;
[11:17]  * AlanBell is off to see Hunger Games later
[11:23] <dogmatic69> nothing like starting the day with 40+ errors
[11:23] <dogmatic69> this apport thing is so much like windows
[11:24] <penguin42> dogmatic69: Oh don't blame apport - it's just the messenger
[11:24] <dogmatic69> its like that windows 'please wait while we find a solution'
[11:24] <dogmatic69> and then the error thing crashes
[11:25] <ali1234> apport does crash a lot
[11:25] <ali1234> for a crash reported
[11:25] <ali1234> pretty much every time apport appears, i immediately get another one, because the first one crashed
[11:25] <popey> I tend to rm -rf /var/crash/* periodically to do a clean start
[11:26] <popey> apparently in Slovenia the word for Eggs is the same as the word for Testicles. Apparently easter time is fun there.
[11:26] <popey> Especially when painting eggs is concerned
[11:27] <penguin42> popey: that's in a few languages apparently
[11:27] <popey> learn something new each day here
[11:28] <penguin42> popey: I doubt it's actually the same word as Testicles, more that they use eggs as slang in the same way we use balls
[11:29] <dogmatic69> my morning so far http://i.imgur.com/sNsda.png
[11:29] <dogmatic69> its like pokemon... got to get them all
[11:30] <ali1234> to catch them is your real test
[11:30] <penguin42> yeh something when something like the window manager or something gets upset a load of other stuff falls over at the same time
[11:30] <popey> ☺
[11:31] <Myrtti> I've got the vanilla kernel oopsing all the time, but I don't want to reboot in case the libnux bug trashes the whole system
[11:32] <penguin42> Myrtti: pastebin the oops ?
[11:32] <bigcalm> Good afternoon peeps :)
[11:32] <Myrtti> I would if I knew how :-P
[11:33] <Myrtti> I suppose it's in varlog somewhere
[11:33] <penguin42> should be in dmesg
[11:36] <dogmatic69> sup bigcalm o/
[11:39] <Myrtti> http://paste.ubuntu.com/929320/ dmesg - http://paste.ubuntu.com/929328/ kern.log for yesterday
[11:43] <penguin42> Myrtti: Well there aren't any actual oops's - in the first one ecryptfs seems to be rather upset, and in both tour wireless isn't happy - the scariest bit is probably the Bad rss-counter state - but I'm just looking that up
[11:44] <Myrtti> penguin42: well I got apport screaming at me out of a sudden like five times last night, it usually has been kerneloops and apport telling me to report it to kernel.org
[11:44] <penguin42> Myrtti: Hmm maybe they're in /var/log/kern.log
[11:44] <Myrtti> after five times of that you kinda start losing interest since there isn't much you can do apart from reporting, and it doesn't seem to be affecting anything
[12:27] <daubers> lo
[13:16] <popey> daubers: !
[13:16] <popey> daubers: managed to get my intensity pro working and then it broke again
[13:36] <daubers> popey: How did you break it this time?
[13:38] <daubers> Woooo! I can focus on text again
[13:43] <daftykins> so many ports on the router here open via UPnP from my own laptop yet i have nfi why :S
[13:45] <hamitron> infected ;)
[13:47] <daftykins> i did wonder
[13:47] <daftykins> but i don't think so
[13:49] <daftykins> bbl
[13:53] <Myrtti> ok, I have a weird question...
[13:54] <Myrtti> does anyone know a font that has really round zeroes, or should I just replace the zeroes with an o as round as possible?
[13:54] <Myrtti> or should I just make my own font with the three characters I need...
[13:54] <Myrtti> hmmm...
[13:55] <penguin42> I'd guess there is a really round thing somewhere in the font
[13:56]  * AlanBell gives Myrtti an 
[13:57] <Myrtti> oooo
[13:57] <Myrtti> that would work
[13:58] <Myrtti> stupid utf doesn't do spacing right on my console :-/
[13:59] <Myrtti> ah but it looks good in Gimp anyway
[13:59] <Myrtti> brilliant
[13:59] <Myrtti> <3
[13:59] <Myrtti> and that reminds me
[14:00] <Myrtti> ♥
[14:00] <Myrtti> :-D
[14:00] <Myrtti> sorry for the noise, /me slinks back to gimping
[14:01] <penguin42> or one of these parhaps      ⃝
[14:03] <sagaci> ⃝
[14:03] <sagaci> damn
[14:03] <penguin42> it's got weird alignment that one
[14:04] <penguin42> ◯ is better
[14:05] <AlanBell> the alignment issues are because it isn't in the font you are using  which is probably monospace, so it picks the glyph from a font that does have it, but keeps the spacing as it is from the monospace font
[14:08] <penguin42> AlanBell: Incidentally, do you know how missing symbols in fonts in general should be reported - there was someone the other day who couldn't find some vietnamese symbols
[14:11] <AlanBell> in the Ubuntu font?
[14:11] <AlanBell> generally the font server picks the symbol from some other font that does have the glyph
[14:12] <penguin42> AlanBell: We couldn't find any font that had it
[14:12]  * penguin42 can't actually find the example now
[14:14] <AlanBell> bug 629622 has some info on font substitutions
[14:17] <ali1234> why does rhythmbox get stuck?
[14:17] <penguin42> ali1234: Blocking on a device?
[14:17] <ali1234> maybe
[14:18] <ali1234> all running aplications are using pulse
[14:18] <ali1234> seeking in the track or skipping to next track fixes it
[14:18] <ali1234> it happens roughly every third track
[14:19] <penguin42> AlanBell: Hmm, not sure that answers it
[14:22] <AlanBell> fun bug though :)
[14:23] <penguin42> AlanBell: Yes, a wonderful composition of font encoding, multiple languages and licensing
[14:24] <penguin42> we really should have a language set that uses all unicode and geeky language just to find untranslated stuff - perhaps all fliptext?
[14:47] <daftykins> i was transcoding a FLAC album the other day for my portable MP3-only player, the decoder got stuck on the file names containing UTF ¬_¬ had to rename the artist in each file >_<
[14:54] <daftykins> turns out my shifty ports opening up were just Windows 7's IPv6 over 4 tunneling service, Teredo
[15:21] <SuperEngineer> o/
[15:22] <Myrtti> AlanBell: which circle was that?
[15:22] <SuperEngineer> g'afternoon folks
[15:22] <Myrtti> I just realised I need a filled one
[15:22] <Myrtti> as well
[15:22] <Myrtti> SuperEngineer: hiya
[15:22] <SuperEngineer> hiyaz Myrtti
[15:23] <penguin42> Myrtti: The character map lets you search for things like that
[15:26] <Myrtti> ok, lets see if this works
[15:35] <directhex> huge curtain success
[15:40] <SuperEngineer> darn! just spent 2 1/2 hours bug hunting on 12.04 -couldn't find one [new] bug - i must be slipping somewhere!
[15:45] <daubers> Hmmm.. getting through to the xbox live support line is surprisingly easy
[16:01] <directhex> daubers: "dear microsoft, that guy I played against online was a douche, can you do something to his mom for me?"
[16:04] <dwatkins> SuperEngineer: do you have an NVidia gfx card? I'm curious because I've heard issues playing youtube videos with flash on 12.04
[16:05] <SuperEngineer> dwatkins: I have an nVidia - installed a *while* back  - just checking which one....
[16:07] <ali1234> dwatkins: what kind of issues? smurfs everywhere?
[16:08] <SuperEngineer> dwatkins: geForce 210 pci
[16:09] <SuperEngineer> dwatkins:  are the probs you refere to the "blue taint" talked about on the mail list
[16:10] <ali1234> it's getting bad when i don't even notice it any more
[16:14] <SuperEngineer> ali1234: ifit's no longer noticed it surely can't be a bug!
[16:15]  * SuperEngineer grins as not affected by it - yet
[16:16] <daubers> directhex: More along the lines of "Dear microsoft, some bum broke into my account and spent lots of my money. Can I have it back please"
[16:16] <daubers> Within 5 minutes, I have it back
[16:16] <directhex> daubers: oh. :/ and :) in that order
[16:17] <SuperEngineer> ...in fact if you'll excuse me, I'll go bbs and switch to 12.04 to see if I can encounter it.
[16:18] <dwatkins> SuperEngineer is fortunate.
[16:20] <ali1234> i found loads of bugs :(
[16:21] <dwatkins> boo hiss for bugs
[18:15] <Azelphur> does anyone know if bitfolk publishes their sales stats?
[18:15] <Azelphur> <random question>
[18:19] <ali1234> why do you want to know?
[18:21] <Azelphur> ali1234: considering buying part of a vps company
[18:21] <ali1234> so how would that information be relevant?
[18:21] <ali1234> assuming said company is not bitfolk?
[18:22] <Azelphur> indeed it's not, was just interested to see how other vps companies do
[18:22] <ali1234> why buy a vps company when you can just set up your own?
[18:22] <Azelphur> because setting up my own requires work
[18:22] <Azelphur> and I have a buttload of bitcoins sitting around doing nothing
[18:22] <ali1234> hire someone to do it for you
[18:23] <ali1234> also, buttcoins lol
[18:23] <Azelphur> :P
[18:23] <Azelphur> buttcoins all you want I'm getting 15%/mo
[18:23] <Azelphur> although not on this vps company, it seems bad
[18:23] <ali1234> wat
[18:24] <Azelphur> ali1234: I've been playing the bitcoin stock market :P
[18:24] <ali1234> the GLBSE?
[18:24] <Azelphur> yea
[18:25] <ali1234>  /facepalm
[18:25] <Azelphur> why? :P
[18:27] <ali1234> it doesn't exactly have a good reputation
[18:28] <Azelphur> *shrug*
[18:29] <ali1234> make a TF2 hat exchange
[18:30] <popey> evening
[18:30] <ali1234> IPO's - IPO's what?
[18:31] <Azelphur> ali1234: initial public offering
[18:31] <Azelphur> think I'mma avoid the bitvps deal though, offering seems crap
[18:32] <popey> Azelphur: they do publish some numbers yes
[18:32] <Azelphur> yea, some numbers
[18:32] <ali1234> get a dedi, put open stack on it, sell super micro VPS instances for bitcoins
[18:32] <Azelphur> and from what I can see...the numbers are bad :D
[18:32] <Azelphur> http://www.bitvps.com/investor-relations/bitvps-march-earnings/
[18:32] <Azelphur> 62B/mo profits...works out at me getting about £9/mo for a £1000 investment, lol
[18:33] <Azelphur> unless the company grows significantly, it's a crap deal xD
[18:33] <ali1234> how much does their vps cost?
[18:34] <Azelphur> quite good really, like 1B (~£3)/mo for the cheapest ones
[18:34] <ali1234> thats not too bad
[18:34] <ali1234> openvz though
[18:34] <Azelphur> openvz and kvm
[18:36] <ali1234> i still think you should expand your gaming offering :)
[18:37] <Myrtti> penguin42, AlanBell: http://myrtti.fi/wbackground.png
[18:37] <Azelphur> ali1234: hehe
[18:37] <ali1234> is that some kind of code?
[18:39] <penguin42> ?
[18:39] <Myrtti> that's what I needed the circle for :-)
[18:40] <Myrtti> eventually didn't need the white circle but anyway, thanks to your input I looked in the right direction
[18:40] <Myrtti> ali1234: binary for ♥
[18:41] <ali1234> 32 bit code?
[18:42] <Myrtti> no, just 16, I doubled it for pretty, might still do another version where it's more obvious
[18:42] <Myrtti> no hold on
[18:43] <Myrtti> yeah, 16
[18:43] <Myrtti> I should eat something, brain is getting slower
[18:43] <ali1234> can't make sense of it :/
[18:44] <Myrtti> 0010 0110 0110 0101?
[18:44] <ali1234> yeah i got that much
[18:44] <Myrtti> >>> u'♥'
[18:45] <Myrtti> u'\u2665'
[18:45] <ali1234> so what's the rest of it?
[18:46] <Myrtti> repetition?
[18:47] <ali1234> but the second line is<PHONE_NUMBER>010010 - http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/6652/index.htm
[18:47] <ali1234> "dry in sun, expose to sun"
[18:48] <Myrtti> now you're just being pedantic and ruining my fun :-(
[18:48] <ali1234> sorry
[18:48] <AlanBell> maybe that is the honeymoon
[18:49] <ali1234> maybe it's some kind of weird recipe?
[18:50] <Myrtti> meh, if I make it tile normally it looks too repetetive :-(
[18:51] <ali1234> oh it's supposed to tile? ok
[18:55] <Myrtti> perhaps I should've added the heart on it too
[18:55] <ali1234> why not used ♥ instead of circle?
[18:59] <AlanBell> gosh, dad is posting pictures to facebook from Shotwell
[19:09] <ali1234> "brogrammers"
[19:13] <Laney> filleting a fish is hard work
[19:13] <Laney> when do I get to be grown up?
[19:14] <AlanBell> I am going straight to Old
[19:14] <AlanBell> and "brogrammers" is a dreadful word that should never have been uttered
[19:15] <ali1234> i agree
[19:15] <jacobw> 'blowgrammers'
[19:15] <jacobw> that seems worse
[19:16] <gordonjcp> people who program only in iambic pentameter
[19:16] <gordonjcp> "flowgrammers"
[19:16]  * jacobw thinks of lisp
[19:19] <jacobw> o/ SuperEngineer
[19:20] <arsen> beers with daftykins \o/
[19:21] <jacobw> yum
[19:26] <SuperEngineer> o/  jacobw
[19:27] <SuperEngineer> dwatkins: was it your good self asking re blue tint in youtube?
[19:28] <SuperEngineer> because the answer is most definitely - yes
[19:29] <dwatkins> SuperEngineer: yes, it was me. Do you mean you have experienced it?
[19:30] <SuperEngineer> in 10.04 - no
[19:31] <SuperEngineer> in 12.04... well have you have you wver heard a person of African decent state that they're proud to be BLUE!?
[19:31] <SuperEngineer> - talk of "tint" - that is overpoweringly blue!
[19:33] <SuperEngineer> ...and also found [for other reasons] Minitube in 12.04 to be a complete fail... & that's today's bug reported ;)
[19:33] <dwatkins> I gather the tint issue is due to the graphics card. If you're running the same flash version in 10.04 and 12.04, that would seem to strengthen that supposition.
[19:35] <ali1234> the smurf bug is caused by flash player sending swapped planes to the nvidia hardware video decoder
[19:36] <ali1234> versions of flash prior to 11.2 didn't use hardware decoding
[19:36] <dwatkins> oh ok, so it is a flash issue
[19:36] <ali1234> so basically, their last ever version they'll make has a brand new, completely untested and broken feature
[19:36] <dwatkins> I assume the workaround is to disable hardware acceleration, then, ali1234
[19:36] <ali1234> that's one of them
[19:36] <dwatkins> I suspect there will be bug fixes.
[19:36] <ali1234> there's actually two stages to hardware decoding
[19:37] <ali1234> the decoding, and the rendering
[19:37] <dwatkins> makes sense, yeah
[19:37] <ali1234> flash plugin can use both
[19:37] <ali1234> but the rendering stage is really buggy and constantly crashes
[19:37] <ali1234> so by default it decodes in hardware, then copies back to memory and software blits the result
[19:37] <dwatkins> what's buggy, flash's implementation or the NVidia driver's?
[19:37] <ali1234> that's where the bug happens
[19:37] <ali1234> if you enable both stages in hardware, the bug goes away
[19:37] <ali1234> bug then it crashes
[19:38] <ali1234> likewise if you disable both stages the bug goes away, but then fullscreen video goes at about 2 fps
[19:39] <ali1234> the reason this is all known is because a nvidia engineer reverse engineered the bug and made a patched version of libvdpau which manually swaps the planes given from flash player
[19:39] <ali1234> so it's absolutely a bug in flash player
[19:39] <dwatkins> the rendering stage of what is buggy, NVidia driver or flash player?
[19:40] <ali1234> also the bug has been reported several times on adobe bug tracker and they are all closed as wont fix, unsupported
[19:40] <dwatkins> yeah, that's not good
[19:41] <dwatkins> suffice to say although I'm not involved, I may be able to find out more and pass information on to the relevant people, ali1234
[19:41] <ali1234> relevant people?
[19:41] <dwatkins> the department in question, or product manager
[19:41] <ali1234> at which company?
[19:41] <dwatkins> Adobe
[19:42] <SuperEngineer> lol
[19:42] <dwatkins> ali1234: di I have you on G+?
[19:42] <ali1234> yes
[19:42] <SuperEngineer> ..now rthat's trhew position to be in to fix this!
[19:47] <SuperEngineer> ...and just appearing on slashdor - http://linux.slashdot.org/story/12/03/31/1417245/adobe-releases-last-linux-version-of-flash-player?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Slashdot%2Fslashdot+%28Slashdot%29
[19:47] <SuperEngineer> *slashdot
[19:47] <dwatkins> thanks SuperEngineer
[19:48] <SuperEngineer> ;)
[19:48] <dwatkins> ah right, that's from a couple weeks ago
[19:48] <SuperEngineer> ah well - just tryin to be helpful
[19:49] <dwatkins> cheers :)
[19:49] <ali1234> yeah that was from before we found out that the last ever version is unusable
[19:50] <dwatkins> I gather there will probably be security fixes, so bug fixes are also likely to be provided, especially if there's a large impact (all users with NVidia cards, for example)
[19:51] <ali1234> like the fullscreen bugs, i doubt it
[19:51] <ali1234> it's really lame when we tell them exactly what is wrong down to the point of exactly which function they are using incorrectly and how to fix it, and they still can't manage it after several years
[19:51] <ali1234> and instead, they write blog posts about how linux is too hard for them
[19:52] <ali1234> if we can work around it without the source code, then their developers are seriously incompetent
[19:52] <dwatkins> I am not aware of these issues, so cannot comment.
[19:52] <ali1234> in fact i would say grossly neglegent to the point where they are lying by describing themselves as developers
[19:56] <SuperEngineer> on the bright side - if all the wprld is blue.... discrimination could be a thing long gong ;)
[19:57] <ali1234> it only turns white people blue
[19:58] <dwatkins> ali1234: I'll see what I can do.
[19:59] <SuperEngineer> nope - it turns other skins blu as well - /I recognised the face of the blue-african-american!
[19:59] <dwatkins> Is it an issue with all NVidia cards/drivers? Just wondering if my Macbook Pro would be affected if I were to install Ubuntu locally.
[19:59] <ali1234> it affects any nvidia card that supports vdpau?
[20:00] <dwatkins> I'm not familiar with particular capabilities of cards, but I'll just work on the assumption it affects all recent cards, I guess.
[20:00] <ali1234> yeah
[20:00] <ali1234> thing is, you can just disable the hardware acceleration and go back to the sucky slow 10.x behaviour
[20:01] <dwatkins> yeah, that's far from ideal, though
[20:01] <ali1234> but it's such a trivial bug i can't see how it ever got beyond the developer's local build
[20:01] <dwatkins> again, not being involved, I would only be speculating if I commented :)
[20:01] <ali1234> it should have been caught long before QA
[20:01] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: haha local build
[20:02] <ali1234> the only way this could have happened is nobody at all tested the feature before it was released
[20:02] <ali1234> the workaround is literally 3 lines of code which catches and swaps the arguments to a single function
[20:02] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: sounds like Ubuntu
[20:02]  * SuperEngineer thinks developet hated jazz... but lu=oved blues
[20:03] <SuperEngineer> *developer
[20:03] <ali1234> i've never seen such a trivial bug in ubuntu
[20:03] <ali1234> it's trivial to reproduce and trivial to fix
[20:04] <ali1234> and it's a huge advert for why proprietary software is so terrible
[20:06] <dwatkins> ali1234: are you on a system that exhibits the colour swap issue right now and would you mind confirming it happens on a video of mine?
[20:06] <ali1234> i'll try
[20:06] <dwatkins> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foJ6EAk7_Wk
[20:06] <ali1234> i can provide hundreds of youtube videos where it happens
[20:06] <ali1234> it does not happen on all though
[20:06] <dwatkins> yeah, I need one that I own ;)
[20:06] <ali1234> depends on uploaded format i think
[20:06] <ali1234> yeah that video doesn't do it
[20:06] <dwatkins> ok, that was from my phone
[20:06] <ali1234> that video plays in html5 player for me
[20:06] <dwatkins> yeah I suspected it might
[20:07] <ali1234> with html5 trial disabled -> blue hands
[20:07] <dwatkins> aha ok, thanks
[20:09] <daftykins> i hadn't heard Adobe were running away from Linux again
[20:09] <daftykins> didn't seem all that long ago that flash 64-bit finally reared its' head properly
[20:09] <ali1234> they are slowly killing off flash
[20:09] <MartijnVdS> they should do it quickly
[20:10] <daftykins> ah they've given in, good good
[20:10] <ali1234> can you guess who sold it to them?
[20:10] <ali1234> clue: he's currently running a respected mobile phone manufacturer into the ground
[20:10] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: The guy who runs Nokia?
[20:10] <AlanBell> anyone know what I could use to generate something a bit like this: http://doc.openerp.com/v5.0/_images/pom_3_0_3.png
[20:10] <ali1234> right.
[20:10] <daftykins> sold what?
[20:11] <ali1234> macromedia. to adobe.
[20:11] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: generate or make?
[20:11] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: I'd use graphviz
[20:11] <AlanBell> MartijnVdS: fairly dynamic
[20:11] <daftykins> ali1234: oic
[20:11] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: you generate a graphviz source file, and it generates the picture for you
[20:12] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: it comes with several programs (for several kinds of graph)
[20:12] <AlanBell> ah right, I had seen some, but not anything appropriate
[20:12] <AlanBell> http://www.graphviz.org/content/datastruct that looks like it might do the job
[20:12] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: http://www.graphviz.org/Documentation/dotguide.pdf
[20:13] <penguin42> yeh, it takes a little practice to persuade graphviz/dot to produce what you want - but it's pretty much the defacto for wrangling graphs
[20:17] <dwatkins> ali1234: okay to PM you?
[20:17] <ali1234> sure
[20:18] <ali1234> i've said pretty much everything there is to say though :)
[21:01] <daubers> Evening
[21:01]  * daubers is slightly amused that the wiring regs has a whole section on labels
[21:02] <popey> bug  981891
[21:12] <ali1234> popey: i think that bug needs a screenshot
[21:13] <ali1234> oh wait, you didn't report it
[21:14] <ali1234> sounds like the whole UI disappeared including top panel? never seen anything like that here...
[21:15] <popey> i saw it today
[21:15] <popey> i also had an interesting multiscreen bug today
[21:16] <popey> after plugging external screen in and playing about a bit, it thought the internal resolution was the 32px wide launcher
[21:16] <popey> so all windows got pushed into that space
[21:16] <popey> unplug external screen and it fixed itself
[21:16] <popey> plug screen back in, and it went wonky again
[21:19] <ali1234> i never change the monitors, and in fact i have to hardcode everything in xorg.conf to stop it from spazzing out whenever i reboot
[21:21]  * jacobw is still scared from gnome-panel's problems with changing resolutions
[21:21] <ali1234> yeah
[21:21] <AlanBell> everyone in the design team and desktop team should be issued with two monitors of assorted sizes
[21:22] <AlanBell> and then someone should move them about every couple of days
[21:22] <ali1234> meh
[21:22] <ali1234> i don't think multimonitor is that bad
[21:22] <AlanBell> it is getting better, but everything doesn't support it from day 1 and then it gets tacked on
[21:23] <ali1234> what they should actually do is give them all a mouse set to minimum sensitivity, a mouse mat that's 10cm square, and a keyboard with no windows key
[21:24] <popey> it was high priority from day one of the P cycle
[21:24] <popey> haha ali1234
[21:24] <gordonjcp> oh the windows key thing is annoying
[21:24] <ali1234> i've seen a lot of the bugs getting fixed
[21:24] <popey> my toshiba laptop has a windows key where you would find a printscreen key
[21:24] <ali1234> closing windows from wrong monitor fix just went in today i think
[21:24] <popey> yet another reason I'll never buy a toshiba again ☺
[21:25] <gordonjcp> what, I'm meant to ditch my IBM Model M because some twat decides that it should have a silly pointless button for an OS I don't use?
[21:25] <AlanBell> there has been a lot of focus on multimonitor this cycle, this is true
[21:25] <ali1234> gordonjcp: i thought you only used command line anyway?
[21:25] <gordonjcp> ali1234: an X desktop is a handy way to run lots of terminals
[21:26] <ali1234> i disabled the windows and alt keys in ccsm and i like it that way
[21:27] <ali1234> that effectively disabled the hud and any kind of keyboard interaction with the launcher
[21:28] <ali1234> also you can remap them like any other compiz key
[21:29] <AlanBell> yeah, I set my HUD to super+alt
[21:29] <AlanBell> lots safer
[21:29] <dwatkins> I wonder if doing that will allow me to switch away from virtualbox
[21:29] <ali1234> while attempting to remap the windows key to something else, i've somehow got the launcher stuck out
[21:29] <ali1234> dwatkins: install guest utils :/
[21:30] <AlanBell> dwatkins: virtualbox was the reason I changed it, the HUD was stealing the keyboard
[21:30] <ali1234> then no need to press host key - you can remap that in vbox too
[21:30] <dwatkins> ali1234: I think I did that, but will check - it might be that I had it fullscreened, also
[21:31] <ali1234> yeah fullscreen is hit and miss
[21:31] <ali1234> i prefer to just maximize the window
[21:31] <AlanBell> and I turn off the shortcuts overlay because I use super+mousewheel for enhanced zoom
[21:31] <AlanBell> I submitted a patch to turn that on by default actually, but I don't think it ever got reviewed
[21:32] <ali1234> me too
[21:32] <ali1234> i just disabled super entirely, that kills the shortcuts thing too
[21:32] <AlanBell> Bug #975029
[21:32] <ali1234> subbed
[21:32] <ali1234> and voted
[21:33] <ali1234> remember to vote for bugs!
[21:33] <AlanBell> it was discussed on the unity-design mailing list, everyone liked the idea, I filed a bug, added a patch, emailed the list to say I had done it. Not sure what happens next.
[21:35] <popey> possibly too late now
[21:35] <AlanBell> the muzzling of compiz does make me sad, we turn off so much good stuff
[21:35] <popey> but ask didrocks in #ubuntu-unity on mondau
[21:35] <ali1234> why was it even turned off? it was working 2 months ago
[21:35] <ali1234> oh wait, they pushed that package that reset everything to defaults....
[21:35] <popey> I _think_ because like workspaces, people get "stuck" in it
[21:35] <ali1234> i must have had an old config
[21:36] <ali1234> ezoom used to be bugged and you could get stuck
[21:36] <AlanBell> it does expose the badly implemented and annoying top bar shadow as being badly implemented and annoying
[21:36] <ali1234> with dual monitor... the mouse would hop to the other screen
[21:36] <ali1234> and yo couldn't zoom out of move it (cos it was grabbed)
[21:36] <ali1234> but now it works *perfectly*
[21:36] <AlanBell> the shadow is part of the real screen and zooms, the top panel is in nux and doesn't
[21:36] <ali1234> yeah i like that a lot
[21:36] <ali1234> the launcher also stays
[21:37] <ali1234> the top bar shadow can just die for all  care :)
[21:37] <popey> +1
[21:38] <ali1234> i should acually close that ezoom bug i opened
[21:38] <ali1234> since it's fixed
[21:39] <ali1234> if i can even find it
[21:41] <silner> AlanBell: Yeah I'm a bit disappointed about compiz. I never used it but, I respected the achievement. We should have been prouder
[21:41] <dogmatic69> I have added my self to the group www-data and done chown -R www-data:www-data ./ && chmod -R g+rw ./
[21:41] <dogmatic69> still cant do anything to the files :(
[21:41] <ali1234> you might need X as well
[21:41] <dogmatic69> ah
[21:41] <dogmatic69> thought so, just g+x ?
[21:41] <ali1234> as in chmod -R g+X
[21:41] <ali1234> NOT x
[21:41] <ali1234> X
[21:41] <ali1234> uper case
[21:41] <dogmatic69> ow, what is the diff?
[21:42] <ali1234> X sets recursively on directories only
[21:42] <ali1234> x bit on directory = you can list contents
[21:42] <ali1234> if you specified lower case it would make all files executable as well
[21:42] <dogmatic69> ah, so x == * and X == folders
[21:42] <ali1234> yeah
[21:43] <dogmatic69> cool, thanks.
[21:43] <ali1234> it's a special case for the x bit
[21:43] <ali1234> see man chmod
[21:43] <dogmatic69> ye, you cant really execute a folder
[21:43] <AlanBell> it means you can cd into it
[21:43] <AlanBell> (roughly)
[21:44] <jacobw> s/folder/directory/g
[21:44] <ali1234> well...
[21:44] <dogmatic69> that will explain why git did not want to init
[21:44] <dogmatic69> still though :/
[21:44] <dogmatic69> drwxrwxr-x  8 www-data   www-data  4096
[21:44] <dogmatic69> that is ls -al
[21:44] <dogmatic69> they all like that (folders)
[21:44] <dogmatic69> -rw-rw-r--  1 www-data   www-data <- files
[21:45] <ali1234> seems reasonable
[21:45] <dogmatic69> `groups dogmatic69` == dogmatic69 : users www-data
[21:45] <dogmatic69> so i am in users and www-data
[21:45] <dogmatic69> just tried editing a random file and no dice
[21:46] <dogmatic69> :O
[21:46] <dogmatic69> closed terminal and started over, works now
[21:46] <ali1234> when you add yourself to a group, it doesn't happen immediately
[21:46] <dogmatic69> ah
[21:47] <dogmatic69> that would be why then. so the chmod would have been fine, just the group stuff needed a new session
[21:47] <ali1234> you can either start a new session or there's some command you can use that i can never remember
[21:47] <dogmatic69> easy enough to exit and start over. would be handy to know with that screen thing though
[21:48] <dogmatic69> I am up to 8 tabs open on my other server and would be a pain having to close them all :D
[21:48] <ali1234> newgrp i think
[21:48] <dogmatic69> found out something about my hibernate bug today
[21:48] <ali1234> note you have to run it in every session anyway
[21:48] <dogmatic69> ye
[21:48] <ali1234> ssh localhost also works :)
[21:48] <dogmatic69> figured as much, its like changing the .bashrc files
[21:49] <dogmatic69> bug 976276
[21:49] <dogmatic69> apparently this is not a bug...
[21:50] <ali1234> suspend to disk is disabled i think
[21:50] <ali1234> didn't i say that last time?
[21:50] <dogmatic69> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/policykit-desktop-privileges/+bug/812394
[21:50] <dogmatic69> ye
[21:50] <dogmatic69> that is *LAME*
[21:50] <ali1234> meh
[21:50] <ali1234> i've never used it
[21:50] <ali1234> un-hibernate takes longer than rebooting
[21:51] <silner> Wasn't it disabled because it wouldn't wake on some systems and lost data ali1234 ?
[21:51] <AlanBell> dogmatic69: why doesn't your computer just suspend?
[21:52] <dogmatic69> AlanBell: it just kicks to the login screen / restarts
[21:52] <AlanBell> suspend should probably work, hibernate isn't a feature any more
[21:52] <AlanBell> laptop or desktop?
[21:52] <dogmatic69> desktop
[21:52] <dogmatic69> it worked on this pc with 10.10 x64
[21:52] <AlanBell> newish or oldish?
[21:53] <AlanBell> did suspend work or hibernate?
[21:53] <dogmatic69> oldis, asus P5N-D + Q6600 intel
[21:53] <dogmatic69> suspend
[21:53] <AlanBell> so you would see a pulsating power light or something when it is asleep, press it and it wakes up?
[21:54] <popey> ooh, i have same mobo
[21:54] <ali1234> i think i have a P5N around here somewhere
[21:55] <dogmatic69> was pretty high tech back in the day :P
[21:55] <hamitron> indeed, I still want one ;)
[21:56] <dogmatic69> no SATA 3, was just before that
[21:56] <dogmatic69> dual SLI, 8gigs ram
[21:56] <popey> mine doesnt have a Q6600 in, which is the highest spec I think that mobo will take
[21:56] <dogmatic69> not fantastic for OC'ing but ok
[21:57] <dogmatic69> popey: i think so, there was only about two or three other CPU's better that the Q6600 at the time but were +- 3x the price
[21:58] <dogmatic69> had this pc 5 years or so now. only just replaced the ram and got SSD. apart from that its all museum pieces
[21:59] <dogmatic69> I will try the suspend when I got to bed again. Last time I am sure it just restarted
[22:00] <AlanBell> http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1537742
[22:01] <AlanBell> Bug #362752
[22:02] <dogmatic69> AlanBell: ha, thing you found everything related to this
[22:04] <dogmatic69> the bug is a bit different, mine is not crashing (that I know of)
[22:04] <AlanBell> yeah, might be different, but might point to some real problem with that mobo
[22:05] <ali1234> it might be crashing right before it suspends, so that it just looks like a normal reboot
[22:05] <ali1234> very hard to catch that
[22:05] <AlanBell> anyhow, you might have a valid bug relating to suspend, however hibernate is the feature that got dropped so don't mention that in the bug report!
[22:05] <dogmatic69> possibly. I think that forum is on to something, but its windows config. I did have a good fiddle with the bios when I replaced the SSD, obviously
[22:08] <dogmatic69> this is nice http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=nouveau_linux_stable&num=1
[22:08] <ali1234> nouveau doesn't work at all on my card
[22:08] <ali1234> crashes within 5 minutes every time
[22:09] <dogmatic69> what you got?
[22:09] <ali1234> gt240
[22:09] <dogmatic69> dont say a GT9800
[22:09] <dogmatic69> ah
[22:09] <dogmatic69> little newer than mine
[22:10] <hamitron> is the driver that bad?
[22:10] <dogmatic69> that article says its stable and being considered for linux kernel
[22:11] <hamitron> if nouveau is bad, I will have to give up the idea of using a modern distro :/
[22:12] <hamitron> like a fool, I bought all the same hardware ages ago, to make video setup "easier"
[22:12] <hamitron> ;)
[22:12]  * hamitron headbutts nvidia
[22:22] <Myrtti> meh
[22:22] <Myrtti> I'm not sure if this version is any improvement to the original
[23:17] <Myrtti> oh well, apparently it is, so - http://myrtti.fi/wbackground_heart.png
[23:18] <AlanBell> very nice Myrtti
[23:18] <Myrtti> yeah, it's got the approval of the other half ;-)
[23:18] <gordonjcp> looks good
[23:18] <gordonjcp> very subtle
[23:19] <mgdm> evening
[23:19] <Myrtti> I'm not overly fond of the pink heart but it didn't look good in any other colour either
[23:19] <Myrtti> I've got the xcf's saved in case I ever change the colours.
[23:20] <gordonjcp> Myrtti: it might be better if it was very slightly darker so it matches the darker grey dots?
[23:21] <mgdm> how's things?
[23:26] <Myrtti> gordonjcp: might give it a whirl at some point
[23:26] <Myrtti> thanks for the input everyone
[23:27] <gordonjcp> Myrtti: looks good
[23:27] <gordonjcp> although I've spent five minutes trying to see if it's got something encoded in it
[23:27] <Myrtti> nothing but the ♥
[23:28] <Myrtti> if you're wondering of the darkness, it's just to break the repetition a bit
[23:28] <Myrtti> s/darkness/dark spots/
[23:29] <Myrtti> and to highlight the fact that that particular one is different from the rest on the binary