[05:06] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, I get the fun "hang on login"
[05:10] <jsgotangco> hehe
[05:10] <jsgotangco> jeezz
[05:10] <jsgotangco> interesting days
[05:11] <Burgundavia> X breakage is coming soon
[05:11] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, you got atheros in your laptop?
[05:12] <Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserContributedDebs <-- nuke?
[05:12] <Burgundavia> links are dead
[05:12] <jsgotangco> nope i have a happy ipw2200
[05:12] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia, did anyone from freesoftwaremagazine email you?
[05:12] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, nope, why?
[05:13] <jsgotangco> i received email from them
[05:13] <Burgundavia> what abouts?
[05:13] <jsgotangco> writing articles
[05:13] <Burgundavia> cool
[05:14] <Burgundavia> j #ubuntu-artwork
[05:17] <Burgundavia> oh, sorry jsgotangco, you thought I wanted you to join -artwork
[05:17] <Burgundavia> I didn't, merely a typo
[05:19] <jsgotangco> ahhh
[05:19] <jsgotangco> i thought something was cooking heh
[05:24] <jsgotangco> are you able to update OOo properly?
[05:24] <jsgotangco> it seems my dpkg is broken
[05:34] <jsgotangco> hmm maybe a daily build should work
[07:08] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, known bug, should be fixed already
[09:00] <haykel> Hi everybody
[09:01] <haykel> Just found a Typo in the Ubuntu Pckaging guide
[09:01] <haykel> didn't know where to report it, so i'll do it here
[09:01] <Burgundavia> haykel, you need to talk to LaserJock, who si currently not here
[09:01] <haykel> Chapter 2. chroot Environment
[09:02] <Burgundavia> haykel, send an email to the list is another otion
[09:02] <Burgundavia> option
[09:02] <jsgotangco>  haykel and the document is pretty outdated at the moment, needs lots of love
[09:02] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia, xorg love!!!!
[09:03] <haykel> aha! So should I anyway try to follow the steps to create a new package??
[09:03] <haykel> Or is it too outdated!
[09:03] <jsgotangco> well it actually works
[09:03] <jsgotangco> but its quite terse...
[09:03] <jsgotangco> but feel free to try out the methodology presented
[09:04] <Burgundavia> unexpected ubuntu --> http://elver.cellosoft.com/2006/01/04/project-post-mortem-the-apotheosis-engine/
[09:05] <jsgotangco> hey that's ubuntu
[09:05] <haykel> Would you suggest another tutorial for creating packages from source? I want to learn it the right way (and not the old way;))
[09:07] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia, interseting blog
[09:21] <Burgundavia> night all
[06:33] <Burgwork> is the css on planet broked for anybody else?
[09:19] <flujan> hi all
[09:19] <flujan> I want to help the Ubuntu community
[09:20] <flujan> daniel holbach point this group
[09:20] <flujan> are you in need of some help?
[09:20] <Burgwork> flujan, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingUbuntu
[09:20] <flujan> BurgWork, I already take a look in this page
[09:20] <Burgwork> and?
[09:21] <flujan> I just want to know who keep the ubuntu-doc project and how I could help. :)
[09:21] <Burgwork> we all do
[09:21] <Burgwork> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamGettingStarted
[09:23] <flujan> good to Know... I'm willing to join your group our the Motu one...
[09:24] <flujan> Since I used slackware and just know I'm switching to Kubuntu... I prefer to work with some doc first
[09:25] <Burgwork> currently we are looking for people to help with the docs for installation and packaging new debs
[09:26] <flujan> I can help with the instalation doc.
[09:27] <flujan> In fact, I'm reading the Debian New Maintainers' Guide... ;)
[09:27] <Burgwork> we also chat on the ubuntu-doc mailing list
[09:27] <flujan> Yeap, Daniel post me this... I already join it. ;)
[09:30] <flujan> So, did you have same conventions or format which I must follow?
[09:34] <flujan> Burgwork?
[09:34] <flujan> well.. now I must leave, tomorrow I will enter here again so we could discuss better..
[09:35] <LaserJock> flujan: I believe the docteam wiki has info on that
[09:35] <flujan> see you all
[09:35] <flujan> ok!
[09:35] <flujan> thanks LaserJock, see you later guys!
[09:35] <LaserJock> cya
[09:39] <mdke> hiya LaserJock
[09:39] <mdke> any progress on the packaging guide?
[09:39] <LaserJock> hi mdke
[09:40] <LaserJock> nothing in the last two weeks, I was at my in-laws and parents for Christmas
[09:40] <LaserJock> I just got back last night
[09:40] <mdke> ah right, if you need anything, just shout
[09:40] <LaserJock> I am going to work on it now
[09:40] <LaserJock> well, I still don't have svn commit access yet
[09:41] <LaserJock> at least I don't think so
[09:41] <mdke> did we apply for it?
[09:41] <LaserJock> I thought so but I honestly don't know if it got done
[09:42] <LaserJock> I emailed elmo about it (and my @ubuntu.com address) a while ago but haven't heard from him
[09:42] <mdke> did you open an rt request?
[09:42] <LaserJock> no
[09:42] <Burgwork> LaserJock, Ubuntu.com comes with being a member, automagically
[09:43] <LaserJock> Burgwork: apparently not
[09:43] <mdke> Burgwork, it's been broken for a while
[09:43] <Burgwork> mdke, ah
[09:43] <LaserJock> yeah and I wasn't at the last CC meeting to bug him about it
[09:43] <mdke> LaserJock, open an rt request about adding you for membership and cc the list
[09:43] <mdke> s/membership/svn
[09:44] <LaserJock> mdke: where?
[09:44] <mdke> you do it by email
[09:45] <mdke> send to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[09:45] <LaserJock> so I should say that I'm and Ubuntu member and would like to have svn access?
[09:46] <mdke> actually, perhaps best if one of us does it
[09:46] <mdke> i'll do it tomorrow, if you give me your LP username
[09:47] <mdke> you'll need your gpg key on it too
[09:47] <LaserJock> my LP id is mantha and my gpg key is there
[09:47] <mdke> rocking
[09:48] <LaserJock> that would really help because I am going to get busy with the Packaging Guide ;-)
[09:48] <mdke> look forward to that
[09:50] <mdke> OgMaciel, ping?
[09:51] <mdke> OgMaciel, there is a guy translating https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WikiTips-pt-BR, please tell him not to bother, because it is about 12 months out of date. I've just eliminated the english page. his name is FRNSantos
[10:02] <mdke> afk


[05:06] <magespawn> good morning
[05:43] <mazal> Morning all
[06:37] <theblazehen> hi magespawn,mazal
[06:39] <mazal> Hey theblazehen
[06:46] <mazal> How can I wake up an external drive in a script ?
[06:46] <mazal> My external is one of those that powers down when not busy , so in a script that copy to it , how can I wake it up before the copy start ?
[06:47] <mazal> Would touch work ? touch /media/username/drivename ?
[07:37] <magespawn> mazal: are you just trying to wake it up? does it not wake up when there is a request for it?
[07:38] <mazal> magespawn, it does , but takes a few seconds to wake up. I'm just worried that the copy process itself might loose data , I dunno if the cp process waits till it fully started up before starting to copy
[07:38] <Kilos> morning all
[07:38] <mazal> Môre oom
[07:38] <magespawn> hi Kilos
[07:39] <Kilos> mazal how do i find the brightness control on kde
[07:39] <mazal> magespawn, so I was thinking wake it up sleep 40 , start copy
[07:39] <magespawn> i think it should, the wake up might make the copy quicker though
[07:39] <mazal> Kilos, I dunno sorry
[07:39] <Kilos> power just came on and screen so dark i cant see much
[07:40] <mazal> Laptop ?
[07:40] <Kilos> yes
[07:40] <magespawn> you would have to run the script or auto run before every copy though
[07:40] <mazal> Isn't that under power savings somewhere ?
[07:40] <Kilos> used to be
[07:40] <magespawn> there is usually physical keys on the keyboard for that
[07:41] <mazal> magespawn, currently it's a backup script that starts with cron , so to that same script I just anted to add something that wakes up the drive
[07:42] <Kilos> yay ty, was in startup and shutdown
[07:42] <Kilos> power thing  was unticked
[07:42] <mazal> That's a strange place to put that
[07:42] <Kilos> bad things happen when power dies and i havent shutdown before battery dies
[07:43] <Kilos> battery last 2 mins hehe
[07:43] <mazal> Kilos, my new install is finished btw
[07:43] <Kilos> and?
[07:43] <mazal> Have none of the bugs I had on KDE. Unity has a big system breaking bug though
[07:43] <Kilos> report it
[07:44] <mazal> After pc is on for a while nautilus stops working completely. Yet another very basic thing not working
[07:44] <mazal> Google was no help with that one
[07:44] <mazal> I am forced to use a different file manager :(
[07:45] <Kilos> learn how to use the syslogs and see if you can find what happens when it stopped
[07:45] <mazal> When running it from cli it gives bunch of errors , but I don't understand them
[07:47] <Kilos> i gotta go let sheep out
[07:47] <mazal> https://bin.snyman.info/mmmy8tf6
[07:48] <Kilos> let one one the clever guys see that and theyll tell you what to do
[07:48] <Kilos> did you use tail and cat
[07:48] <mazal> nope
[07:48] <Kilos> i forget which does what
[07:48] <Kilos> try them
[07:49] <Kilos> you can teach me
[07:49] <mazal> Can also not remember how to use it hehehehe
[07:49] <Kilos> tail /var/log/syslog
[07:49] <Kilos> and cat it too
[07:49] <Kilos> Maaz seen thatgraemeguy
[07:49] <Maaz> Kilos: thatgraemeguy was last seen 15 days, 46 minutes and 42 seconds ago in #ubuntu-za on freenode [2016-05-23 00:03:15 PDT], and has been offline on freenode since 2016-05-23 09:30:57 PDT
[07:50] <mazal> Simple thing like a file manager really does not need this issues
[07:50] <mazal> Loosing a lot of faith in Ubuntu
[07:50] <Kilos> dont start
[07:50] <Kilos> use plan c
[07:51] <mazal> *sigh*
[07:51] <Kilos> i must go lewt sheep out man
[07:51] <mazal> only thing I could find re this issue is that 16.04 shipped with an old version of nautilus due to bugs
[07:51] <Kilos> do an aptitude reinstall nautilus and see if it fetches a patch
[07:52] <mazal> It didn't help though , is still broken
[07:52] <mazal> Go to sheep oom :)
[07:52] <mazal> We talk later ;)
[07:52] <Kilos> ok
[07:52] <Kilos> wbb
[07:52] <mazal> Bring iets lekker saam
[08:23] <theblazehen> mazal: Check out hdparm
[08:23] <theblazehen> Can disable power down there I think
[08:29] <magespawn> theblazehen: will that stop the hard drive powering down?
[08:29] <theblazehen> Yes. Set timeout period really high or something. Don't remember exact command, but have done it before
[08:30] <theblazehen> Or just disbable
[08:40] <Kilos> mazal baie bokdrolletjies maar nie daai wat beacon maak nie
[08:44] <theblazehen> Wow, accidentally used spice rather than vnc, it's actually fast with centos 7 vm
[08:44] <theblazehen> Got a 1 mbit connection to the host
[08:44] <theblazehen> vnc is faster with rhel5 and windows
[08:49] <magespawn> theblazehen: spice?
[08:50] <theblazehen> magespawn: http://www.linux-kvm.org/page/SPICE - supposed to be faster
[08:50] <magespawn> ty
[08:50] <theblazehen> Was *way* slower with win server 2012. I'm talking 10-20 second display latency
[08:51] <theblazehen> Down to ~0.5 s with vnc
[08:51] <theblazehen> Getting ~0.2 maybe with spice on centos 7
[08:51] <theblazehen> Actually less than that. Maybe 50 ms
[09:06] <mazal> theblazehen, it looks like hdparm -S0 /dev/sdx
[09:07] <mazal> But I am unsure if that is correct
[09:07] <theblazehen> mazal: That looks familiar, yes
[09:07] <mazal> That's from reading man , something I am not good with
[09:12] <theblazehen> What's the worst that can happen?
[09:13] <mazal> I break the drive lol
[09:15] <theblazehen> Except, you know "his is EXTREMELY DANGEROUS  and will  very  likely  cause massive loss of data.  DO NOT USE THIS COMMAND." or "VERY  DANGEROUS,  DON'T  EVEN THINK ABOUT USING IT" or "VERY DANGEROUS, DO NOT USE!!" or "This  command  is  EXTREMELY  DANGEROUS" or "EXCEPTIONALLY  DANGEROUS. DO NOT USE THIS OPTION!!" or "VERY  DANGEROUS" or "EXCEPTIONALLY DANGEROUS. DO  NOT USE THIS OPTION!!" or "USE AT YOUR OWN RISK." or "THIS  FEATURE
[09:15] <theblazehen>   IS  EXPERIMENTAL AND NOT WELL TESTED. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK."
[09:15] <mazal> Oh oom Kilos I forgot to tell you. I tried that aptitude reinstall nautilus
[09:15] <Kilos> yes mazal ?
[09:15] <mazal> It dl'ed 2 small files to quick for me too see what it was
[09:16] <Kilos> did it fetch anything
[09:16] <mazal> yeah , 2 small files
[09:16] <Kilos> and you have a pause button
[09:17] <Kilos> i dont know what cli shows after
[09:17] <mazal> Will see in time if nautilus freeze up again
[09:17] <Kilos> somewhere must be a record of what it did
[09:17] <Kilos> oh is it working now
[09:17] <mazal> For now yes. But is always working after reboot , and then after a while stops working
[09:18] <Kilos> ok lets hope its been patched
[09:18] <mazal> Will see in about 2 hours if it still responds
[09:18] <mazal> I have a question though
[09:19] <mazal> Why did aptitude pull in more files after I already did an update ? Does uptitude fetch updates that normal apt update doesn't fetch ?
[09:19] <Kilos> i have found that update/upgrade leaves out many updates
[09:19] <mazal> why ?
[09:19] <Kilos> pro and fly argue with me
[09:20] <Kilos> i think they not classed as important enough to add in to auto update
[09:21] <Kilos> but a reinstall of many packages fetches new stuff
[09:22] <Kilos> right back in 10.10 i said if i use synaptic and right click reinstall everything thats already installed then it fetches lotsa data
[09:24] <mazal> hmmm
[09:25] <mazal> Must be a reason for that
[09:28] <theblazehen> I hate openshit
[09:29] <mazal> Kilos, if you don't disable the automatic cleaning of the apt-cache then it will have to fetch data again as auto cleaning would have deleted a lot of packages
[09:29] <mazal> theblazehen, hey ?
[09:29] <Kilos> i have save all packages ticked
[09:30] <theblazehen> Install issues, networking issues, too much docker for my liking ...
[09:30] <Kilos> i dont often clean
[09:32] <mazal> Kilos does that tick you mentioned modify /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/20archive though ?
[09:32] <Kilos> i have no idea
[09:32] <mazal> That's the config file that normally determines the auto cleaning
[09:35] <Kilos> dont ask me such involved questions
[09:36] <mazal> hehehehe
[09:39] <Kilos> Maaz coffee on
[09:39]  * Maaz flips the salt-timer
[09:43] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for Kilos!
[09:43] <Kilos> Maaz danke
[09:43] <Maaz> Bitteschön
[09:58]  * mazal fiddles
[10:34] <mazal> Kilos, nautilus still working. By now it usually frozen
[10:35] <mazal> I wonder though , hmm , lemme test something
[10:45] <superfly> https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-most-complex-line-of-C-code-you-have-created-or-encountered
[10:57] <theblazehen> superfly: Didn't check the link. Have you seen the Underhanded C contest? Or or ioccc?
[10:58] <theblazehen> I wonder what happens if your swap partition just vanishes.. I probably shouldn't add a sd card as swap, even if it *does* have okay iops
[11:01] <MaNI> depends if it is in use at the time or not :)
[11:02] <theblazehen> MaNI: Well, because it'll sometimes evict ram to use more ram as disk cache, it will normally always have a bit used
[11:02] <theblazehen> Oh well. `sudo swapon /dev/mmcblk0`
[11:02] <theblazehen> Lets find out
[11:03] <theblazehen> Or if I use it as a bcache writeback cache..
[11:03] <MaNI> well that depends on how much ram you have - my box only touches swap in very rare circumstances - if programs were using the swap then I'd expect them to segfault (crash) when they try to access any memory that was swapped
[11:04] <theblazehen> 8 GB on laptop. Used to run a bunch of VMs, but now run it on vm host at home
[11:05] <theblazehen> Currently using 4.5 GB
[11:05] <theblazehen> Using 12/18 GB on desktop
[11:05] <theblazehen> and 1.7/32 GB on VM host
[11:06] <theblazehen> s/GB/GiB/
[11:08] <MaNI> zram can be a good option for that
[11:08] <MaNI> if using lots of VMs then enabling KSM is also a huge plus
[11:14] <theblazehen> Yeah. Well, I do everything on vm host now. I used to use zram with my netbook. 512 MB normal memory, 1536 MB (I think) for the compressed swap
[11:15] <theblazehen> 2 GB swap on usb hdd
[11:15] <theblazehen> another 2 gb on internal hdd
[11:15] <theblazehen> s/usb hdd/flash disk/
[11:15] <theblazehen> Running vms were slow without VT-x :(
[11:15] <theblazehen> And dual monitor was painful
[11:16] <theblazehen> I'd idle at ~30% cpu load (both hyperthreaded cores) on the xfce desktop with pulseaudio and conky running
[11:16] <theblazehen> Around 80-90% with chromium (firefox was too slow :()
[11:20] <Kilos> ai!
[11:20] <Kilos> power again
[11:22] <MaNI> cable theft or maintenance?
[11:22] <theblazehen> 4.9 MB swap used. Lets find out what happens at the end of day
[11:22] <mazal> Oom Kilos , I *think* I found what is making nautilus crash
[11:23] <Kilos> must be repairs, because they not supposed to steal aluminium cables
[11:23] <Kilos> what is it mazal
[11:23] <mazal> Kilos, I retraced everything I did this morning and did the same
[11:23] <mazal> all stayed stable , until I wrote an iso to usb stick
[11:23] <mazal> Boom nautilus broken
[11:23] <Kilos> wow
[11:24] <mazal> Particularly though , it was systamback writing
[11:24] <Kilos> what are you using to do that
[11:24] <Kilos> aha
[11:24] <mazal> systemback *
[11:24] <mazal> It mos has a build-in app
[11:25] <Kilos> yes
[11:25] <mazal> So tomorrow , I will test iso writing with different app and see if it's that specific app
[11:25] <Kilos> is there a systemback group on irc
[11:25] <Kilos> ask them
[11:25] <mazal> I see though that boot disc creator has also been removed from Ubuntu , so will try unetbootin
[11:26] <theblazehen> `dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/null status=progress bs=1M` 16 GB/s on vm host. How much do you guys get?
[11:26] <mazal> Wonder why they removed it ?
[11:27] <mazal> nvm found it " startup disk creator "
[11:28] <mazal> Will test now , too curious to wait for tomorrow
[11:28] <Kilos> lol
[11:29] <theblazehen><PHONE_NUMBER>208 bytes (3.1 TB, 2.8 TiB) copied, 191.489 s, 16.0 GB/s
[11:29] <theblazehen> nice
[11:30] <theblazehen> !sudo nice -n -20 !!` gives extra 300 MB/s
[11:39] <mazal> Kilos, written with startup disk creator done. Nautilus still stable
[11:40] <Kilos> so you have the culprit
[11:40] <Kilos> mine worked ok whe n i did it i think
[11:40] <Kilos> will try again sometime
[11:42] <mazal> So that's 1 bug squashed
[11:42] <Kilos> lol
[11:42] <mazal> Won't use systemback to write
[11:43] <mazal> Now this install has only 1 other bug...so far
[11:44] <mazal> Software centre won't open
[11:45] <Kilos> use synaptic
[11:45] <Kilos> i dont like software centre at the best of times
[11:46] <Kilos> wbb
[11:46] <mazal> Yeah I never use it , wanted to go in just to check it out and saw it doesn't launch
[12:52] <Kilos> hmm...
[15:52]  * Kilos reboots to get sound working again
[16:06] <magespawn> home time chat later all
[17:25] <Kilos> hmm...
[17:41] <inetpro> ..mmh
[17:44] <Kilos> inetpro wb
[17:45] <Kilos> you didnt fixit yet
[17:45] <inetpro> you broke it?
[17:47] <Kilos> yes
[17:47] <Kilos> hehe
[17:47] <Kilos> weird prob
[17:48] <Kilos> sound intermittently disappears
[17:48] <Kilos> and i dunno how to see where what switches off
[17:49] <Kilos> seems to be a common thing on t410 but this one was fine till a couple of weeks ago
[17:49] <inetpro> just leave it off
[17:50] <Kilos> it doesnt show its muted
[17:50] <Kilos> nono man
[17:50] <Kilos> i need to hear things happen
[17:50] <inetpro> you can learn to go without sound
[17:50] <Kilos> no
[17:51] <Kilos> i even looked at man sox
[17:51] <Kilos> but thats a major man page
[17:51] <Kilos> a reboot fixes the sound
[17:53] <Kilos> and
[17:53] <Kilos> when sound goes its only from internal speakers
[17:53] <Kilos> headfones still work
[17:54] <Kilos> now dont say wear headfones
[17:54] <Kilos> thats not an option
[18:00] <Kilos> gremble still studying?
[18:01] <Kilos> have you worked out where you went wrong last time?
[18:21] <magespawn> good evening
[18:22] <Kilos> hi magespawn
[18:22] <magespawn> hey Kilos, so whats up?
[18:23] <Kilos> definitely not the temperatures
[18:23] <Kilos> gonna be cold the weekend if the coming cold front doesnt go down south more
[18:23] <magespawn> never that at this time of year
[18:24] <Kilos> looks like snow coming on the mountain rangres
[18:24] <Kilos> ranges
[18:24] <Kilos> so get a heater
[18:25] <magespawn> i think i should be able to manage
[18:25] <magespawn> there is a panel heater in the flat i rent
[18:25] <Kilos> sjoe tough guy hey
[18:25] <Kilos> ah that can help
[18:26] <Kilos> im very sad
[18:27] <Kilos> mr fixit wont help me fix my sound, says i must get used to having no sound
[18:27] <magespawn> who is mr fixit?
[18:28] <Kilos> i have been abandoned in the desert
[18:28] <Kilos> the pro
[18:28] <Kilos> have you forgotten
[18:28] <Kilos> oh my
[18:28] <magespawn> and what is wrong with your sound?
[18:29] <Kilos> works from booting and then randomly disappears
[18:29] <Kilos> common t410 prob i see
[18:29] <magespawn> ahh well, is there a bug for it?
[18:29] <gremble> Hey Kilos It is my life for the next two week
[18:29] <magespawn> hey gremble
[18:30] <Kilos> good man gremble , get all your ducks inna row
[18:30] <Kilos> then one shot kills many
[18:30] <Kilos> there have been a few unsuccessful ones magespawn since 12.04
[18:31] <gremble> Hey magespawn
[18:31] <Kilos> lenovo have even replaced some motherboards
[18:31] <magespawn> wow, i thought maybe is was a software problem
[18:32] <Kilos> yeah the guys trying to help have tried lots of things
[18:32] <magespawn> so, gremble, what is your life for the next two weeks?
[18:32] <Kilos> some commands restart it
[18:32] <Kilos> then other times no luck
[18:32] <Kilos> studies!!!!!!
[18:37] <gremble> Exams started. So This week study, and the week after I am writing all of them
[18:37] <magespawn> ah well, that usually leads to better things
[18:37] <magespawn> like the end of the exams
[18:42] <Kilos> night all. i got soak inna hot tub then crash
[18:42] <Kilos> see you tomorrow
[18:42] <magespawn> good night Kilos
[18:49] <magespawn> i am also off, good night all
[19:11] <qwebirc87600> Hello
[19:15] <qwebirc87600> Is there a support channel for ...Cape Town users !
[19:30] <qwebirc87600> Is there a support channel for ...Cape Town users !
[19:33] <Felconian> Hi all
[19:34] <Felconian> Anyone home !
[19:34] <paddatrapper> Hey Felconian
[19:35] <Felconian> hi ..i am looking for a support group for Ubuntu 16.04 ... not sure if i am at the right place
[19:35] <paddatrapper> We can try help. A couple of us are running 16.04
[19:35] <paddatrapper> What issues are you having?
[19:36] <Felconian> i am new to Linux ..so forgive my ignorance if i miss small things
[19:36] <paddatrapper> Welcome to the true OS :)
[19:37] <Felconian> I have been battling to setup my box as a Gateway firewall
[19:37] <paddatrapper> What's the issue you're having with that?
[19:37] <Felconian> I have gone through alot of how too on the net and i still am haveing issues with getting traffic (internet) to pass through the box
[19:37] <paddatrapper> gremble: I write my last exam tomorrow!!
[19:38] <Felconian> good luck padd
[19:38] <paddatrapper> Felconian: As far as I'm aware you need two nicks and to place it into the lan before switches, etc
[19:38] <paddatrapper> Thanks
[19:39] <Felconian> Router <-> Firewall <-> Switch
[19:39] <Felconian> i have them installed ..
[19:39] <paddatrapper> That way you can use IP tables on passthrough traffic to manage your rules
[19:40] <Felconian> Kernel IP routing table Destination     Gateway         Genmask         Flags Metric Ref    Use Iface <IP_ADDRESS>         <IP_ADDRESS>        <IP_ADDRESS>         UG    100    0        0 enp3s0 <IP_ADDRESS>        <IP_ADDRESS>         <IP_ADDRESS>   U     100    0        0 enp3s0 <IP_ADDRESS>     <IP_ADDRESS>         <IP_ADDRESS>     U     1000   0        0 enp3s0
[19:40] <Felconian> well that did not work ?
[19:40] <paddatrapper> With it setup can you connect to the internet?
[19:41] <paddatrapper> Can you pastbin/similar that? Formatting on IRC messages sucks
[19:41] <Felconian> i can ping both NIC's in the UBUNTU box from the switch .... side
[19:42] <paddatrapper> Hmm...
[19:43] <paddatrapper> theblazehen: inetpro Got any suggestions?
[19:46] <Felconian> i am just creating an account on past bin
[19:46] <paddatrapper> You can use gist.github.com if you want to do it annonomously
[19:47] <paddatrapper> s/annonomously/annonomously
[19:51] <theblazehen> Ip forwarding is enabled right?
[19:51] <theblazehen> Can't really think now
[19:51] <theblazehen> Maaz coffee on
[19:51]  * Maaz washes some mugs
[19:52] <Felconian> http://pastebin.com/EHZVW0Dz
[19:52] <Felconian> thats a bit of stuff from 3 locations
[19:53] <Felconian> sorry the other NIC was not plugged in ... so i am doing now and running the route -n
[19:54] <paddatrapper> Maaz: coffee please
[19:54] <Maaz> paddatrapper: Done
[19:55] <Felconian> http://pastebin.com/WWfzj13D
[19:55] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for theblazehen and paddatrapper!
[19:55] <paddatrapper> Maaz: thanks
[19:55] <Maaz> paddatrapper: Okay :-)
[19:55] <Felconian> funny thing is i can ping all the IP's ... on both sides of the box
[19:56] <paddatrapper> Pretty sure the point is for that not to be possible
[19:56] <Felconian> From the So i can ping the Router ... through the Ubuntu 16.04 box .... from the internal network
[19:57] <Felconian> Is there anyhting elso i can show you
[19:57] <theblazehen> Felconian: Can you get a tcpdump on the firewall, both nics, and from the internal network, upload to pixeldra.in? I;ll see if I see anything tomorrow. Otherwise hopefully someone else here can help
[19:57] <Felconian> How ?
[20:00] <Felconian> We got hacked ... our telkom router  ... from somone is the US ... they planted ... ransom ware on 2 PC's but could not get to the AD server ... they had the audsity to call us as well
[20:01] <Felconian> I keep backups of everyhting so i lost 2 days work ...
[20:01] <Felconian> so now i am taking internet security ... seriousely
[20:03] <Felconian> Is anyone in Cape T?own
[20:03] <Felconian> Is anyone in Cape Town  ?
[20:05] <paddatrapper> Felconian: I am
[20:06] <Felconian> i am willing pay you to show me how to setthis up correctly !
[20:07] <Felconian> Can bring the Box to you if you like !
[20:07] <paddatrapper> Unfortunately I've never really done it before, but I'd be happy to give it a try
[20:09] <paddatrapper> I'd be happy to take a look at it next week and try get it up and running. It'd be fun to work with I reckon
[20:09] <Felconian> Thing is i have gone through every possible tutorial ..even reinstalled Ubuntu 16.04  ..and started from scrath ... I tried Bridging ... the two NIC's that did not work ... and once that happens ..the Linux BOX ...stops connectecting to the internet
[20:11] <Felconian> Step by Step ... so i am sure i am missing somthing realy simple ..because of my inexperience
[20:11] <theblazehen> maaz seen andrewlsd
[20:11] <Maaz> theblazehen: andrewlsd was last seen 12 days, 12 hours, 39 minutes and 59 seconds ago in #ubuntu-za on freenode [2016-05-26 00:31:53 PDT], and has been offline on freenode since 2016-05-26 01:59:37 PDT
[20:15] <paddatrapper> Felconian: Well let's see what the tcpdumps have to say and we can take it from there
[20:15] <Felconian> How do i dump that info ?
[20:15] <paddatrapper> https://danielmiessler.com/study/tcpdump/
[20:17] <Felconian> WoW ..this is epic!
[20:18] <Felconian> just reading that first page is INSPARATIONAL !
[20:22] <Felconian> do i specify the IP address or the adpter ?
[20:23] <theblazehen> Felconian: adaptor
[20:23] <paddatrapper> I'd say the interface you are wanting to monitor
[20:24] <theblazehen> yeah
[20:25] <Felconian> https://pixeldra.in/u/y1qD35
[20:27] <theblazehen> Felconian: do `-w somefile.pcap` to save to a file, that way it can be opened in wireshark
[20:27] <paddatrapper> Alright I'm off. Night everyone
[20:27] <Felconian> nn
[20:27] <theblazehen> night paddatrapper
[20:27] <Felconian> Thnaks
[20:28] <theblazehen> Felconian: Have you looked at something like pfSense, or shorewall or ipcop?
[20:28] <theblazehen> Running pfSense myself
[20:29] <Felconian> nope ...
[20:30] <Felconian> I have only been using Linux for 72 hours
[20:30] <theblazehen> Check pfsense out. Has the wonderful pf firewall :) And gui config
[20:30] <theblazehen> Based on freebsd
[20:30] <theblazehen> Easy setup
[20:30] <Felconian> Everything i know is what i read ... good or bad ?
[20:31] <theblazehen> Very good IMO
[20:31] <Felconian> looking at it now
[20:32] <theblazehen> Felconian: http://i.imgur.com/bvnlCjA.png
[20:32] <theblazehen> My rules, pretty simple
[20:33] <Felconian> are you running this on your own box ...or theres?
[20:34] <theblazehen> Own box
[20:34] <theblazehen> Felconian: http://i.imgur.com/HDnsvMm.png main interface :)
[20:35] <Felconian> i dont see any prices for the software ?
[20:35] <theblazehen> It's free
[20:35] <theblazehen> But optional paid support afaik?
[20:36] <Felconian> thats ok
[20:36] <Felconian> Better than bying an Window 2012R server licnece for the firewall ... pc
[20:37] <Felconian> because thats where i was going ... !
[20:37] <Felconian> if this did not work out!
[20:37] <Felconian> i will try this ... Thank you ...
[20:38] <theblazehen> Cool! Let me know if you have issues
[20:38] <theblazehen> This runs on basically any hardware too. Used to run on an old 600MHz celeron with 128 MB RAM
[20:40] <theblazehen> Also, just to note, make sure that if you use a usb to install get the usb image. Unlike linux isos, pfsense iso's can't be dd'd to a usb directly. They give an img.bz2 or something like that
[20:41] <Felconian> cool thanks ... its going on a  AMD 965 Phoem II  .... 4G Ram
[20:42] <theblazehen> Yeah, more than good enough. I'm now on a Petnium something with 2 GB RAM
[20:42] <theblazehen> With that much ram look into snort as an IDS, and perhaps a transparent squid proxy for bandwidht saving
[20:43] <theblazehen> Can't type any more :/ And just treated a line conatining `<?php` as an empty line, and deleted it
[20:43] <Felconian> lol
[20:43] <theblazehen> I guess it's time for bed
[20:43] <theblazehen> Night
[20:43] <Felconian> Thank you
[20:43] <Felconian> I am going to pay Total war ....


[12:12] <Saviq> mooore spammers: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity8/+bug/1324071
[12:13] <cjwatson> Saviq: dealing
[12:13] <Saviq> cjwatson, thanks
[12:13] <cjwatson> done
[14:25] <ki7mt> Is this the right channel to discuss PPA's on Launchpad and such?
[14:27] <davmor2> ki7mt: ask your question.  Most of the devs are in the Australian/New Zealand timezone so you might not get a response immediately
[14:27] <cjwatson> Well, not this week they aren't
[14:27] <davmor2> cjwatson: oh
[14:28] <davmor2> cjwatson: buy them beer then they deserve it :)
[14:31] <wgrant> Yeah, we're all in Malta this week.
[14:31] <ki7mt> davmor2, Ok, understand, I'm working on several applications, though related, separate repo branches.  Is the best practice to create one PPA for each application or set up a team PPA or something?
[14:35] <dobey> it's up to you how to deal with it. but best practice is to do the thing that best suits how you want your users to get our apps from a PPA
[14:35] <dobey> doesn't need to be a team PPA unless you need multiple people to upload to it
[14:36] <dobey> you can have one PPA and just upload the source packages for all the apps to the one ppa?
[14:36] <cjwatson> it's certainly entirely reasonable to put multiple packages in one PPA, if they'll be used by roughly the same set of people
[14:36] <cjwatson> you'd use multiple PPAs when they have radically different audiences, require different access control for uploads, and/or have conflicting packages in the different archives
[14:39] <ki7mt> Ok, they are all very close is use, just different parts of the radio spectrum. Sounds like one PPA, then add the packages to that is a reasonable approach.
[14:41] <wgrant> Yep
[14:41] <wgrant> If they're new packages, rather than changes to packages in Ubuntu, users can add your PPA and then just choose which packages to install.
[14:42] <ki7mt> Thanks for the info. I'm sure I'll be back with more questions when things fall over :-)
[14:44] <ki7mt> Yes, I'm new to packaging for Debian/Ubuntu .. I have the first package building on sid 32/64 and trust 32/64 with pbuilder, lintian is ok also.
[14:44] <ki7mt> trusty 32/64 .. ..
[14:47] <ki7mt> And yes, 3 of the apps are not in Debian or Ubuntu, then two others are but they need to be brought up to date for py3 and numpy 1.8 etc etc.,
[15:41] <tgm4883> dobey: so... 12.10 was marked as supported again?  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/quantal
[15:56] <cjwatson> see #ubuntu-release
[18:37] <ki7mt> Hello all, I have a package, not currently in Debian/Ubuntu, that I've create the PPA page, tested builds etc,  and I'm ready to dput, but I'm a bit confused on the version / naming conversion. Program name is WSPR, version is 4.0. How should I name this for uploading to LP
[18:56] <TheWaterOnFire> Is there any reason I should get a "Missing build dependency" for a package that is part of the PPA I am building in?
[18:57] <TheWaterOnFire> i.e., building umockdev, need valac (>= 0.16.1); so added vala 0.16.1 to the PPA, but umockdev still won't build.
[18:59] <maxb> Check the package actually got published before you started the build?
[18:59] <TheWaterOnFire> It did. And I also restarted the build once afterward, just to be sure.
[19:00] <maxb> It could be a component issue, if "Use the same components used for each source in the Ubuntu primary archive." is the selected option for that PPA
[19:01] <TheWaterOnFire> It's set to "Use all Ubuntu components available"
[19:05] <maxb> You'd better give a link to the PPA and build, then
[19:06] <TheWaterOnFire> https://launchpad.net/~dwink/+archive/gstreamer/+build/6048534
[19:10] <maxb> TheWaterOnFire: I see no package called 'valac' in that PPA
[19:11] <maxb> I see one called 'valac-0.16', but that's hardly the same thing
[19:13] <TheWaterOnFire> maxb: Aha. That makes some sense. The vala packaging is strange that way. Thanks!
[21:53] <cjwatson> ki7mt: I would probably use 4.0-0ppa1 or something like that, in order that any future upload to Ubuntu will supersede it
[21:53] <cjwatson> ki7mt: and convert the program name to lower case
[22:02] <ki7mt> cjwatson, Thanks, the .org is all lower case, iv'e got the front half sorted out .. wspr-4..0~r4155 .. now I just need to figure out the 0ubuntu1 part, it's not clear on the site how that is assigned I guess it's done with the dput command.
[22:03] <ki7mt> whoops wspr-4.0~r4155 .. ..
[22:07] <cjwatson> ki7mt: you don't need that if it isn't in Ubuntu
[22:07] <cjwatson> And dput does not change version numbers
[22:08] <ki7mt> Oh, ok, thanks. so i can simply put: wspr-4.0~r4155_source.changes and away it goes?
[22:08] <cjwatson> don't need that> that is, "-0ubuntu1" indicates specifically a version of a package modified in Ubuntu - something like -0ppa1 would be better probably
[22:08] <cjwatson> You put the version number in the top line of debian/changelog
[22:09] <ki7mt> Yes, thats there already
[22:09] <cjwatson> If the package has a separate upstream existence (that is, there's already a wspr tarball released, or similar) then it should probably be 4.0~r4155-0ppa1 or something like that
[22:09] <ki7mt> wspr (4.0~r4155) UNRELEASED; urgency=lo
[22:09] <ki7mt> low
[22:10] <cjwatson> 4.0~r4155 with no -<something> indicates that the package in question *only* exists as a package - this is usually only appropriate if you're working on something quite core to the distribution itself, so for example dpkg doesn't have a -<revision> part
[22:11] <ki7mt> Ok, so I need to change the tarball name and changelog to add-<somthing> as well.
[22:11] <cjwatson> no
[22:11] <cjwatson> just the changelog
[22:11] <cjwatson> So I would usually do "wspr (4.0~r4155-0ppa1) UNRELEASED; urgency=low" (and of course set "UNRELEASED" to the actual target release (using dch -r) before actually uploading)
[22:12] <cjwatson> if I made a change to the packaging that would become 4.0~r4155-0ppa2
[22:12] <cjwatson> if I took a new upstream snapshot that would become 4.0~r4156-0ppa1 (or whatever)
[22:12] <cjwatson> if upstream made a proper release then that would become 4.0-0ppa1
[22:12] <cjwatson> something like that
[22:13] <cjwatson> as I say, assuming that WSPR is a thing that has an upstream maintainer
[22:13] <ki7mt> That what this is, a snapshot, as we're in the process of getting tar's generated on releases, jsut not there yet.
[22:13] <cjwatson> sure, I get that
[22:13] <ki7mt> Im part of that upstream helper croud :-)
[22:14] <cjwatson> if it exists in some manner other than a package, though, which it sounds like it does, you should have a -<revision>, e.g. 4.0~r4155-0ppa1
[22:14] <cjwatson> even if you are part of the upstream maintenance crew
[22:14] <cjwatson> otherwise there will sooner or later be some confusion between the version numbers you release in your packages and the upstream versions
[22:14] <ki7mt> It does, but it's in Windows, a few of us are converting things to *Nix thus the 4.0, that's the actual release version.
[22:15] <cjwatson> sure, I don't need to know :)
[22:15] <cjwatson> anyway, running out of battery and need sleep, night
[22:15] <ki7mt> Ok, thanks.
[22:42] <santa> hello
[22:43] <santa> I have started recently trying to get some changes in the kubuntu kde framworks 5 packaging, so I made some personal bzr branches with my changes
[22:43] <santa> however, I don't see the "merge request" button in the web interface, why is that?
[22:47] <santa> for instance http://derp.co.uk/73999
[23:30] <dobey> santa: +junk branches are not part of a project or distribution. you need to push your branch to a location under a project or distribution, to propose it.
[23:39] <santa> dobey: thanks. well the idea would be able to merge them here https://code.launchpad.net/kubuntu-packaging how do you suggest me to proceed? the person willing to review my changes told me it would be better - and I agree - if I could use the "merge request" thing (in order to avoid poking on irc)
[23:46] <dobey> push them to lp:~yourusername/kubuntu-packaging/whatever-you-want-to-name-the-branch
[23:46] <dobey> like lp:~foo/kubuntu-packaging/fix-readme or whatever
[23:49] <santa> ok, I'm not sure if I will have permissions to do that. I guess I don't so I will discuss it with the kubuntu guys tomorrow
[23:49] <santa> thank you for the help
[23:49] <dobey> yes you do
[23:49] <dobey> anyone can push any branch under a project like that
[23:49] <santa> oh
[23:50] <santa> let me check
[23:50] <dobey> the part that deterines the owner of the branch is your username
[23:50] <dobey> anyway, i have to go
[23:50] <santa> ah, ok
[23:50] <santa> see you


[15:01] <rbasak> o/
[15:01] <bdmurray> o/
[15:01] <cyphermox> o/
[15:01] <BenC> o/
[15:01] <cyphermox> do we have quorum? I'll chair instead of sil2100
[15:02] <cyphermox> looks like we do
[15:02] <cyphermox> #startmeeting DMB meeting
[15:02] <meetingology> Meeting started Mon Sep 26 15:02:08 2016 UTC.  The chair is cyphermox. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[15:02] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[15:02] <cyphermox> #topic Review of previous action items
[15:02] <cyphermox> sil2100 asked me to chair, since he was going to be on a uncertain connection
[15:02] <BenC> Has it reall been two weeks since the last meeting? My internal clock is misrepresenting terribly.
[15:03]  * rbasak is also on an uncertain connection
[15:03] <cyphermox> BenC: it has
[15:03] <BenC> And on that note, I must appologize for not updating the agenda.
[15:03] <cyphermox> no infinity here, but I'll poke him to do his PPU stuff for Gunnar.
[15:03] <rbasak> That's done actually.
[15:03] <cyphermox> oh
[15:03] <rbasak> slangasek took care of it for us.
[15:03] <cyphermox> good
[15:03] <cyphermox> what about the PPU acces for Otto?
[15:04] <rbasak> That I didn't have in my mind when I asked him, sorry.
[15:04] <cyphermox> ok, I will then
[15:04] <rbasak> If someone wants to prepare the edit-acl command for slangasek, I'm sure he'd be happy to oblige.
[15:04] <cyphermox> my tasks were done
[15:04] <cyphermox> yup
[15:04] <cyphermox> sil2100's tasks were done (libdumbnet and zerofree for ubuntu-cloud)
[15:05] <cyphermox> and finally mine (nacc to add to core-dev and annoucing results) are done too -- so looks like we just need to cover Otto's PPU now
[15:05] <cyphermox> I see no applications on the agenda...
[15:06] <cyphermox> BenC: was there anything that should be on today's agenda?
[15:06] <BenC> We pushed “Nicholas Skaggs and (Juju Delegated Team) (September 12th)” to this meeting.
[15:06] <cyphermox> balloons: are you around?
[15:07] <balloons> o/
[15:07] <balloons> Happy Monday to you all
[15:08] <cyphermox> #topic Juju Delegated Team
[15:08] <rbasak> o/
[15:08] <rbasak> I wasn't expecting to be available today, but I happen to be free and with a connection available right now.
[15:09] <cyphermox> ok!
[15:09] <cyphermox> well, we have an email thread describing the request for a Juju PPU team.
[15:10] <cyphermox> is everyone familiar with that thread or with last meeting's discussion so we can skip right to voting on the team creation? is there anything we need to discuss on that regard? (or was the voting done already?)
[15:11] <BenC> I’m good
[15:12] <bdmurray> I'm not caught up on the thread
[15:13] <cyphermox> rbasak had concerns with the complexity of the packages, and whether they shouldn't just require core-dev
[15:13] <cyphermox> the thing is, we should usually consider PPU uploader teams separate from who asked to have that access .. can we sufficiently well define the packageset?
[15:14] <rbasak> I believe that all the packages currently requested have the property that they are only dependencies of Juju and nothing else.
[15:14] <rbasak> So "Juju and supporting packages that aren't dependencies for anything other than Juju" or a more concise form of that maybe?
[15:16] <BenC> Yeah, let’s get the package set out of the way. I think that’s fairly well defined.
[15:16] <BenC> And uncontested, for the most part.
[15:17] <rbasak> If we were to decide that Juju can only be uploaded to by core devs, then there would be no point in having a packageset.
[15:18] <rbasak> I realise that it's a bit circular though. I don't mind which way round we do it.
[15:18] <rbasak> As you say, I think everyone agrees what the packageset should be.
[15:19] <cyphermox> well, I don't think it has to only be core developers. people can show interest in only juju and show that they can handle these special packages correctly without necessarily qualifying or willing to be core-dev
[15:19] <micahg> cyphermox: that's a point of contention
[15:19] <BenC> I agree. I think it’s actually more likely that some one would work on juju and not want or need core, than the other way around.
[15:20] <cyphermox> micahg: could you elaborate?
[15:20] <BenC> micahg: Is it contended because there’s an opinion that you need to be at the level of a core-dev to work on it correcly, or because you should be a core dev to do it?
[15:20] <micahg> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2016-September/000979.html
[15:22] <BenC> I agree, there needs to be a higher level of expertise for anyone working on juju, but I don’t agree that you should need core-dev permissions to do so.
[15:22] <cyphermox> uploads are uploads, we're not here to check if someone uploading is doing a bugfix or not
[15:23] <rbasak> What if we ask all DMB members here to express their opinion on my questions A-E in that email? Would that help? Are there any further distinctions or nuances in opinion that this would miss?
[15:23] <cyphermox> AFAIK we've worked the same way for other packages for which uploads have consequences -- that's why we look at the packageset and who requests access separately
[15:23] <micahg> I agree on that point, I'm still not sure about whether or not someone should be core-dev for juju, I'm leaning towards it's plumbing for package management, so people should have a decent understand of how things work
[15:24] <BenC> A) Yes, B) No
[15:25] <BenC> Given that, I move that we define juju as a package set and to allow PPU access to it on a case-by-case basis.
[15:27] <cyphermox> seems to be like "bugfix-only uploads for the PPU" is unenforceable, and arguably something that goes beyond the scope of the DMB
[15:28] <BenC> Yeah, and most of these points can easily bog us down to the point of hindering progress rather than enabling.
[15:28] <BenC> Which I think is our main goal.
[15:28] <cyphermox> perhaps we could vote on the packageset, then vote on rbasak's points and bring this up to the next TB meeting?
[15:28] <cyphermox> BenC: err, what? :)
[15:29] <BenC> We should be enabling progress and development rather than hindering it :)
[15:29] <cyphermox> oh, ok :)
[15:29] <BenC> Order of gramatical operations failure on my part.
[15:30] <rbasak> I think that given it's within the scope of the DMB to deny an application for PPU, it's also within the scope of the DMB to permit a limited PPU only. Whether or not we choose to do it, or whether or not it's a good idea, is a separate matter.
[15:30] <cyphermox> #vote for the creation of a juju packageset defined as "Juju and supporting packages that aren't dependencies for anything other than Juju"
[15:30] <meetingology> Please vote on: for the creation of a juju packageset defined as "Juju and supporting packages that aren't dependencies for anything other than Juju"
[15:30] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
[15:31] <rbasak> +1
[15:31] <meetingology> +1 received from rbasak
[15:31] <BenC> +1
[15:31] <meetingology> +1 received from BenC
[15:31] <bdmurray> +1
[15:31] <meetingology> +1 received from bdmurray
[15:31] <cyphermox> +1
[15:31] <meetingology> +1 received from cyphermox
[15:31] <micahg> +0
[15:31] <meetingology> +0 received from micahg
[15:32] <cyphermox> #endvote
[15:32] <meetingology> Voting ended on: for the creation of a juju packageset defined as "Juju and supporting packages that aren't dependencies for anything other than Juju"
[15:32] <meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:1
[15:32] <meetingology> Motion carried
[15:32] <rbasak> I'm not sure we need to send this to the TB, unless we're hung or really unsure or something. We can still decide to our best ability and allow balloons (or anyone else) to take it to the TB if unhappy still though.
[15:33] <cyphermox> rbasak: that's not what I meant though
[15:33] <rbasak> No?
[15:33] <cyphermox> I think we ought to proceed as usual to do the vote for the packageset, vote on the applicants, and then bring up this discussion on ubuntu-devel perhaps?
[15:33] <cyphermox> and if need be, have a decision made by the TB
[15:34] <cyphermox> even if juju is complicated, I don't think it qualifies as stuff that only core-devs should ever upload
[15:34] <cyphermox> I think very few such packages exist
[15:35] <cyphermox> even boot stuff typically has bad consequences if you do stuff wrong, but we can have very knowledgeable uploaders ready to do such uploads
[15:36] <cyphermox> #topic Nicholas Skaggs for juju packageset upload rights
[15:36] <rbasak> I have no objection to bring it up on ubuntu-devel if you would like to do that.
[15:36] <cyphermox> balloons: could you tell us more about what changed since last meeting?
[15:36]  * cyphermox kicks Launchpad, would be nice to see upload history right about now
[15:37] <balloons> cyphermox, you can at least still see http://ubuntu-dev.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/ubuntu-sponsorships.cgi?render=html&sponsor=*&sponsor_search=name&sponsoree=*Skaggs*&sponsoree_search=name
[15:37] <balloons> but yea :-(
[15:37] <balloons> Anyways, I sent along an email about juju packaging history as I knew it, and my invovlement with it
[15:37] <micahg> yes, but boot loaders are very focused, yes, results can be disastrous, but there's specific knowledge involved, packaging plumbing would seemingly require knowledge of how other packages interact and can potentially interact with each other, which implies archive-wide understanding
[15:38] <balloons> There's also an on-going debate about 32-bit uploads, and work on getting an RC into the archive
[15:38] <cyphermox> micahg: juju doesn't affect the archive, only the system on which you run it
[15:38] <balloons> cyphermox, did you have anything specific you want an update on?
[15:39] <cyphermox> balloons: not necessarily, but I wasn't at the last meeting, so trying to catch up with approximate resources
[15:39] <balloons> here's my mail btw https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2016-September/000965.html
[15:39] <BenC> balloons: I have a single question: How do you plan ro help resolve some of the packaging issues being raised?
[15:40] <BenC> Speficially, without vague things like “I’m going to make juju great again” :)
[15:40] <micahg> cyphermox: right, but isn't the idea to be a layer on top of the package manager to make it even easier to install groups of packages?
[15:40] <balloons> BenC, :-). Are you speaking about issues like the 32-bit issue?
[15:41] <cyphermox> micahg: following specific rules which aren't part of juju itself, and those recipes are reviewed differently, etc.
[15:41] <cyphermox> micahg: it's not very different from chef/puppet, etc.
[15:41] <BenC> Well, there seems to be a huge discussion on how best to move forward with juju packaging to satisfy some current problems. Things raised last DMB meeting.
[15:41] <cyphermox> ie. you're always free to destroy your computer, or your datacenter, if you so choose.
[15:41] <balloons> My goal in general has been to try and make juju a better upstream partner. I've sought to do that by addressing the various packaging issues raised before I started working on the package. This included things like breaking out dependencies and doing regular uploads
[15:42] <BenC> As juju PPU #1, how would you lead that movement?
[15:43] <BenC> balloons: Sorry to come across as pushy, but not past. What are your future plans?
[15:43] <balloons> I push for open discussions on hard issues and seek resolution. It's not ok to just stop doing things once they get hard.
[15:44] <balloons> My future plans are to beef up the autopkgtests a bit more, and make the juju ci packaging mirror what goes into the archive
[15:44] <balloons> I want to reduce the release timing for pushing something into a ppa to into the devel archive to nil
[15:46] <micahg> balloons: not to open up a can of worms, but is there a reason that juju isn't part of the CI train?
[15:46] <cjwatson> wut
[15:46] <cjwatson> most packages aren't
[15:47] <micahg> even the canonical developed ones
[15:47] <balloons> micahg, the CI train for phone images?
[15:47] <balloons> if so, the answer is simply that it doesn't ship on those images
[15:47] <micahg> for the archive
[15:47] <cjwatson> right, bileto (formerly called the CI train) mainly focuses on the code used on the phone; it's certainly possible to use it for other things, but might well be an impedance mismatch in a lot of cases, and is in no way a requirement
[15:47] <cyphermox> the CI train isn't meant just for phone images though
[15:48] <rbasak> Juju does have autopkgtests, assuming they're still there. I wrote a couple.
[15:48] <cjwatson> and in particular most server packages don't use bileto
[15:48] <cyphermox> otoh, cjwatson is right, and we shouldn't use it as a crutch to make it easier to do uploads
[15:48] <balloons> rbasak, absolutely, and they are still there. Specifically, I'm going to try and stamp out archive issues with LXD, cloud-init, or snaps breaking us (or vice versa)
[15:48] <micahg> it was one potential solution to the "we want point releases quickly"
[15:49] <balloons> as an aside, who does the manual qa on a silo if it's not going on the phone?
[15:50] <cyphermox> you, or some other person designated for these uploads.
[15:50] <sil2100> o/ Sorry for being late, on mobile but around
[15:50] <balloons> micahg, my solution for that has been to integrate autopkgtesting into our CI, along with running things like lint, and checking for copyrights, etc
[15:50] <sil2100> The QA process is only for vivid and phone stuff, so other series just get released as is
[15:51] <balloons> cyphermox, ahh interesting. So I do an upload, get a silo, then I do the signoff?
[15:51] <sil2100> Bileto, in this regard, can be used for any package anywhere - if, of course, it fits the project needs
[15:51] <cyphermox> we're drifting away from the subject though, should we go on to vote?
[15:52] <sil2100> Since as cjwatson mentioned, bileto might 'get in the way' if you dont have autopkgtest or follow some specific release process
[15:52] <sil2100> Yeah, sorry about that
[15:54] <cyphermox> #vote for Nicholas Skaggs to get uploads rights for the juju packageset
[15:54] <meetingology> Please vote on: for Nicholas Skaggs to get uploads rights for the juju packageset
[15:54] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
[15:54] <balloons> so rbasak, when I say "beef up autopkgtests", I mean adding tests to ensure uploads to lxd, cloud-init, snap-confine don't break our juju packaging or vice versa. We've struggled with catching LXD breakages before they hit the archive
[15:55] <rbasak> balloons: that wasn't my question :-)
[15:56] <rbasak> -1 for reasons I explained at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2016-September/000979.html
[15:56] <meetingology> -1 for reasons I explained at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2016-September/000979.html received from rbasak
[15:57] <cyphermox> +0, I see some uploads, but I can't look at a few, and I would prefer to see more uploads of other packages that will be on the package set.
[15:57] <meetingology> +0, I see some uploads, but I can't look at a few, and I would prefer to see more uploads of other packages that will be on the package set. received from cyphermox
[15:58] <BenC> +0
[15:58] <meetingology> +0 received from BenC
[15:58] <sil2100> +0
[15:58] <meetingology> +0 received from sil2100
[15:59] <micahg> -1  I agree with most of what rbasak said
[15:59] <meetingology> -1  I agree with most of what rbasak said received from micahg
[15:59] <BenC> I trust baloons capability, but I think the first person on juju PPU needs more of a leadership role than a technical one.
[16:00] <cyphermox> #endvote
[16:00] <meetingology> Voting ended on: for Nicholas Skaggs to get uploads rights for the juju packageset
[16:00] <meetingology> Votes for:0 Votes against:2 Abstentions:3
[16:00] <meetingology> Motion denied
[16:01] <balloons> Thanks for your consideration all. On rbasak's comments, as I told him, I do hope to see some wider discussion as I think he brought up some interesting points around packages and ppu permissions
[16:01] <sil2100> I think we all would prefer you to do a few more uploads through sponsoring for now, and certainly re-try in a bit
[16:01] <BenC> Agreed on that.
[16:02] <balloons> yea, my uploads for things like mongodb never showed up in the miner
[16:02] <balloons> I can work to make sure my name gets attached to things more; it'll happen naturally anyway
[16:02] <rbasak> It's OK if they don't show up on the sponsorship miner - just point to them in your (re-)application and explain your involvement.
[16:02] <rbasak> (with an endorsement from the uploader also describing/confirming your involvement, etc)
[16:03] <cyphermox> #topic Any other business
[16:03] <bdmurray> Is there a bug in the sponsorship miner then?
[16:04] <balloons> bdmurray, seems unlikely. More likely is that my sponser uploaded and it has there name (probably very few if any of these). And for the other things, it likely carries someone else who I colloborated with as the uploader
[16:07] <cyphermox> so, no AOB
[16:07] <sil2100> Not from me
[16:08] <cyphermox> but I did forget to write down the ACTION for creating the packageset.. who wants to do it?
[16:08] <sil2100> I could try
[16:08] <sil2100> The juju packageset, right?
[16:08] <cyphermox> yes
[16:08] <rbasak> Is there any point doing it now?
[16:09] <sil2100> I would get on it when Im back or tomorrow then if that's needed
[16:09] <cyphermox> well, you don't have to DO it, just own the action so that we eventually have it done
[16:09] <rbasak> I suppose it would make it easy to add someone to when it's ready.
[16:09] <cyphermox> rbasak: not now, but let's not forget.
[16:09] <cyphermox> ACTION: sil2100 to deal with the juju packageset creation
[16:09] <cyphermox> #endmeeting
[16:09] <meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Sep 26 16:09:44 2016 UTC.
[16:09] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-09-26-15.02.moin.txt
[16:09] <rbasak> The person who gets the future action to add someone to the packageset won't forget :-)
[16:09] <cyphermox> hehe
[16:09] <rbasak> But sure, do it now if desired, because it's a TB action so will take longer.
[16:10] <rbasak> Then adding will be quick in future.
[16:10] <sil2100> Thanks cyphermox for chairing!
[16:10] <cyphermox> sil2100: you're up next ;)
[16:10] <rbasak> Thanks all!
[16:10] <sil2100> Ill take the next meeting in this case ;)
[16:10] <sil2100> Yeah ;)
[16:31] <tyhicks> hello
[16:31] <mdeslaur> \o
[16:31] <tyhicks> #startmeeting
[16:31] <meetingology> Meeting started Mon Sep 26 16:31:30 2016 UTC.  The chair is tyhicks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[16:31] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[16:31] <tyhicks> The meeting agenda can be found at:
[16:31] <tyhicks> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
[16:31] <tyhicks> [TOPIC] Announcements
[16:31] <tyhicks> Otto Kekäläinen (otto) provided updates for trusty and xenial for mariadb (LP: #1605493)
[16:31] <tyhicks> Thank you for your assistance in keeping Ubuntu users secure! :)
[16:31] <tyhicks> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
[16:31] <tyhicks> jdstrand: you're up
[16:32] <jdstrand> hey
[16:32] <jdstrand> last week I focused a lot on the docker interface, ancillary interface/backend reviews and getting the docker snap to work on classic. The interface is merged and I syncd with stakeholders to get an updated docker in the store.
[16:32] <jdstrand> Also did a lot of PR reviews, updated the dbus-app interface and discussed the unity8 interface with ted
[16:33] <jdstrand> snap-declaration assertions in the review tools and other review tools updates
[16:33] <jdstrand> iterate on the dbus-app interface (hopefully, waiting for PR feedback)
[16:33] <jdstrand> PR reviews, especially wrt /run/media and udisks2
[16:33] <jdstrand> continue to investigate what a 'network-namespace' interface might look like
[16:33] <jdstrand> few more policy updates and policy bugs to look at
[16:33] <jdstrand> snap-declaration assertions in the review tools and other review tools updates
[16:33] <jdstrand> oh, I repeated one of those. it's that important :)
[16:33] <jdstrand> that's it from me
[16:33] <jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
[16:33] <mdeslaur> I'm on triage this week
[16:33] <mdeslaur> I'm currently working on an embargoed issue
[16:33] <mdeslaur> and I have samba and clamav updates ready for testing
[16:34] <mdeslaur> that's about it, sbeattie, you're up
[16:34] <sbeattie> I'm in the happy place this week
[16:34] <sbeattie> I made progress on some apparmor reviews last week, and will finish those up
[16:34] <sbeattie> I have kernel signoffs to get through today
[16:35] <sbeattie> I'll try to pick up an update from the list as well
[16:35] <sbeattie> that's it for me, tyhicks?
[16:36] <tyhicks> I'm in the happy place this week
[16:36] <tyhicks> I'm trying to do SRU verification (LP: #1580463) (LP: #1614215)
[16:36] <tyhicks> jdstrand: it looks like im-config was removed from xenial-proposed :/
[16:36] <tyhicks> jdstrand: could you re-upload and I'll handle the SRU verification?
[16:37] <tyhicks> after that, I'll be back on trying to bring AppArmor UNIX domain socket mediation back to 14.04 + hardware enablement kernel
[16:37] <tyhicks> I hit a blocker last week and I'm now taking a different approach
[16:37] <tyhicks> I have some packaging changes to make today so that we continue to ship the 14.04 policy in the backported 16.04 package
[16:37] <tyhicks> then I'll be testing
[16:37] <tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
[16:38] <tyhicks> sbeattie: either you or I need to look at bug #1627304 this week
[16:39] <sbeattie> tyhicks: okay
[16:39] <tyhicks> sbeattie: I can get to it mid-week and will let you know if/when I start working on it
[16:39] <tyhicks> I think jj isn't around just yet
[16:39] <tyhicks> sarnold: are you here?
[16:40] <tyhicks> chrisccoulson: go ahead
[16:40] <chrisccoulson> I've got a minor Oxide update to do this week. There aren't any planned Mozilla updates
[16:41] <chrisccoulson> I've got a few Oxide code reviews to get through too
[16:41] <chrisccoulson> Also, Firefox and Thunderbird fail to build on various architectures in yakkety, so I need to spend some time on that
[16:41] <chrisccoulson> Other than that, I'll be working through Oxide bugs as usual
[16:42] <tyhicks> thanks chrisccoulson
[16:42] <tyhicks> ratliff: you're up
[16:42] <ratliff> I'm on bug triage this week
[16:42] <ratliff> I'm finalizing the pillow update
[16:43] <ratliff> Design doc review and other internal tasks to complete
[16:43] <ratliff> back to you, tyhicks
[16:44] <tyhicks> thanks!
[16:44] <tyhicks> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
[16:44] <tyhicks> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
[16:44] <tyhicks> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
[16:44] <tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/k4dirstat.html
[16:44] <tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/iscsitarget.html
[16:44] <tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/zeroinstall-injector.html
[16:44] <tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/w3af.html
[16:44] <tyhicks> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
[16:44] <tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/minizip.html
[16:44] <tyhicks> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
[16:45] <sarnold> hey, sorry I'm late
[16:46] <sarnold> MIRs this week, not sure which ones to start next
[16:46] <sbeattie> tyhicks: ^
[16:46] <sarnold> and I'm on community
[16:46] <ratliff> ubuntu-terminal-app
[16:46] <sarnold> thanks ratliff :)
[16:46] <tyhicks> yep
[16:46] <tyhicks> and zmqpp after that
[16:47] <sarnold> lets hope lukasz fixes the ftbfs :)
[16:47] <sarnold> it sounded promising but he mentioned silos and I lost track
[16:47] <tyhicks> sarnold: a fixed upload is in the unapproved queue
[16:47] <tyhicks> sarnold: see the bug report
[16:48] <tyhicks> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/zmqpp/+bug/1617005/comments/4
[16:48] <tyhicks> sarnold: might be worth kicking that build off while looking at ubuntu-terminal-app :)
[16:48] <tyhicks> does anyone have anything else?
[16:49] <sarnold> heh, ubuntu-terminal-app doesn't even show up in umt search :/
[16:49] <tyhicks> I'm confused by that one
[16:49] <tyhicks> maybe ratliff can get you more info?
[16:49] <ratliff> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-terminal-app/+bug/1625074
[16:50] <tyhicks> ratliff: it isn't in Ubuntu: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-terminal-app
[16:50] <ratliff> the code is in launchpad and linked to off of that MIR
[16:51] <tyhicks> lets discuss this outside of the meeting so that everyone else can go about their day
[16:51] <tyhicks> jdstrand, mdeslaur, sbeattie, jjohansen, sarnold, ChrisCoulson, ratliff: Thanks!
[16:51] <tyhicks> #endmeeting
[16:51] <meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Sep 26 16:51:40 2016 UTC.
[16:51] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-09-26-16.31.moin.txt
[16:51] <mdeslaur> thanks tyhicks
[16:51] <ratliff> thanks, tyhicks!
[16:51] <sbeattie> tyhicks: thanks!
[16:53] <sarnold> thanks tyhicks!
[16:55] <jdstrand> thanks tyhicks :)