 Ask me "How" and I will introduce you to a mining platform that offers at least $1000 every 4Days with just one deposit of $500, Inbox me privately for more info
[16:22] <Chunkyz> haha, oh dear.
 Banned in Telegram
[16:23] <Chunkyz> nice one. :-)


[12:36] <lizardking> troy_s: Wonderful, btw I have some problem because the meeting is on the 26 Feb. It's Monday. I have basketball training at 23 pm UTC
[12:37] <lizardking> troy_s: damn! Perhpas I have just finshed the oransoda portin to oransun ;) now the theme is absolutly free yeah :D
[12:42] <troy_s> good stuff.
[02:30] <joejaxx> Hello All
[03:17] <joejaxx> anyone about/non-idle?
[03:43] <troy_s> joejaxx: go?
[03:43] <joejaxx> ?
[03:47] <joejaxx> troy_s: well i can here to see if anyone wanted to volunteer there time and help with the Fluxbuntu artwork :P
[03:47] <joejaxx> s/there/their/g
[04:01] <troy_s> what is your position in it?
[04:01] <troy_s> joe?
[04:01] <troy_s> joejaxx: ?
[04:02] <joejaxx> oh
[04:02] <joejaxx> i created the project
[04:04] <troy_s> ah cool
[04:05] <troy_s> joejaxx: How is the team going then?>
[04:05] <joejaxx> it is going well
[04:06] <joejaxx> there are about 5 people developing it
[04:06] <joejaxx> and only two people doing artwork including myself
[04:06] <troy_s> what are your ideas for it?
[04:06] <joejaxx> we are going with a leaf theme for the artwork
[04:07] <troy_s> ahh nifty... ideas in snapshots?
[04:07] <troy_s> do you have a motivating image etc?
[04:07] <joejaxx> sure hold on
[04:11] <joejaxx> i am trying to find a screenshot with without something in the way of the background
[04:11] <joejaxx> http://fluxbuntu.org/fluxbuntu_jaxx.png
[04:11] <joejaxx> that is the default background
[04:12] <joejaxx> there is a login theme too but it needs work
[04:12] <joejaxx> we have not even touched the usplash
[04:13] <joejaxx> http://fluxbuntu.org/fluxbuntu_login3.png that is the login theme
[04:13] <joejaxx> it needs work though
[04:17] <troy_s> joejaxx: Sorry, i was in the bathroom
[04:17] <troy_s> let me catch up
[04:18] <joejaxx> it is quite alright :)
[04:18] <troy_s> joejaxx: Who's photo is the wallpaper?
[04:18] <troy_s> Because if you are going to do a set, it would be nice to have custom components for all of them.
[04:18] <joejaxx> i forget the name of the photographer
[04:18] <troy_s> The leaf is a great starting point for a motif though.
[04:18] <troy_s> Are there license issues with it?>
[04:19] <joejaxx> it might now ship default though because the photographer has yet to return my email
[04:19] <troy_s> Well you should get some imagery that you know is licensed
[04:20] <joejaxx> yeah
[04:23] <joejaxx> for the usplash i was thinking of having a leaf animation
[04:24] <joejaxx> mimicking a leaf in the wind
[04:24] <joejaxx> but of course on the usplash it would just be going back and forth
[04:24] <troy_s> it would need to be endless though...
[04:25] <joejaxx> across the ends of the word fluxbuntu
[04:25] <joejaxx> troy_s: is there not a way to repeat the animation?
[04:25] <troy_s> well yes, that is what i mean
[04:25] <troy_s> it repeats endlessly
[04:25] <joejaxx> ah ok
[04:25] <troy_s> so floating from one to the other won't work
[04:26] <troy_s> it becomes problematic with a floating leaf back to forth ...
[04:26] <joejaxx> it would not?
[04:26] <troy_s> well it just will look kooky in all likelihood.
[04:26] <troy_s> you would need something a little more cyclical.
[04:26] <joejaxx> oh ok
[04:26] <troy_s> otherwise it ends up 'pacing'
[04:26] <troy_s> which looks odd.
[04:27] <joejaxx> yeah
[04:27] <joejaxx> i was going to say have it float like a sine wave :P
[04:27] <joejaxx> which is pacing lol
[04:27] <troy_s> a little more 'american beauty' ish
[04:28] <joejaxx> i never saw that film :\
[04:59] <troy_s> ack
[04:59] <troy_s> joejaxx: Go rent it.
[04:59] <troy_s> joejaxx: It is a very impressive piece of work.
[05:00] <troy_s> joejaxx: And when I chat you tomorrow, you will know _exactly_ what I mean.
[05:01] <joejaxx> ok
[05:09] <troy_s> joejaxx: I'd offer my help for Flux, but I am already quite swamped with standard life, u2, and several other elements.
[05:09] <troy_s> joejaxx: I could very well, assuming I find some time, generate a series of photos for you.
[05:09] <joejaxx> it is quite alright
[05:09] <troy_s> Then we could work out what direction you want them to head etc... it might give you some ideas for the GDM etc.
[05:09] <joejaxx> i would appreciate that
[05:10] <joejaxx> troy_s: yeah
[05:10] <troy_s> Let me see how my schedule works out over the next short bit.  Photography is a little easier than actual art and design as I don't need to go through the draw/scan/tweak cycle.
[05:10] <joejaxx> ok
[05:16] <troy_s> joejaxx: Can you handle large raw files?
[05:18] <joejaxx> i have not really tried before
[05:18] <joejaxx> is a pentium 1.6ghz with 1.25gb of ram enough?
[05:19] <troy_s> yeah should be fine... they aren't hard to manage with, just a little large on the space
[05:20] <joejaxx> oh ok
[05:21] <joejaxx> yeah it should be fine then
[05:41] <troy_s> kwwii I know you are not in right now, but check this link and let's see what we can do from the art end...
[05:41] <troy_s> http://digg.com/linux_unix/Ubuntu_Human_Icons_for_OpenOffice
[07:21] <BHSPitMonkey> yo
[07:36] <klepas> moin
[12:47] <pmjdebruijn> lo
[12:48] <pmjdebruijn> say I could arrange for some great background photo's, how would they need to be licensed to be included in Ubuntu by default?
[12:49] <pmjdebruijn> is CreativeCommons acceptable?
[12:49] <pmjdebruijn> or does it need to be DFSG?
[12:51] <pmjdebruijn> I can get the photos at 1920x1440
[12:51] <pmjdebruijn> for example:
[12:51] <pmjdebruijn> http://www.jasperfotografeert.com/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=0&pos=16
[12:53] <pmjdebruijn> and even if other licenses are acceptable, what license if preferable?
[12:53] <pmjdebruijn> I still need to negotiate the exact term with the author
[12:59] <elkbuntu> pmjdebruijn, GFDL would work too, afaik
[01:01] <pmjdebruijn> and how do you feel about Creative Commons?
[01:02] <pmjdebruijn> that might be the authors preference?
[01:02] <darkmatter> mornin all
[01:04] <pmjdebruijn> for example: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.5/
[01:04] <elkbuntu> pmjdebruijn, that one is gpl compatible, afaik, so it is fine.
[01:05] <pmjdebruijn> elkbuntu, you mean without the NonCommercial clause?
[01:06] <elkbuntu> yes. the nc would prevent someone from making a commercial deritive, which the gpl maintains ones right to do
[01:06] <elkbuntu> iirc
[01:06] <pmjdebruijn> ok
[01:12] <pmjdebruijn> I'll talk to the author
[01:12] <pmjdebruijn> but as a sidenote
[01:13] <pmjdebruijn> if I were to assemble a pack of 3-10 great background, would they stand a chance of being included in Ubuntu?
[01:13] <pmjdebruijn> I'm not talking about Ubuntu themed backgrounds, but generic ones
[01:19] <elkbuntu> pmjdebruijn, providing they are of good quality and properly packaged, im sure they'd hit at least universe
[01:27] <pmjdebruijn> that won't be a problem
[01:27] <pmjdebruijn> though I'm aiming for inclusion into the LiveCD
[01:27] <pmjdebruijn> (at least ideally)
[01:28] <elkbuntu> probably not likely, since space is a premium on it
[01:28] <elkbuntu> better to aim for the dvd
[01:28] <elkbuntu> but then, not guaranteed
[01:37] <pmjdebruijn> ofcourse
[01:41] <vdepizzol> will openoffice in feisty come with tango and human icon theme?
[01:41] <elkbuntu> vdepizzol, no clue, but im sure someone will take a look at them
[01:47] <darkmatter> hmmm... http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=396546646&size=o <--- opinions?
[01:50] <pmjdebruijn> what about it?
[01:50] <pmjdebruijn> darkmatter, using a third party font?
[01:51] <darkmatter> pmjdebruijn, yes I am... and recompiled cairo n freetype with the patches for improved rendering
[01:52] <pmjdebruijn> it's hard to compare with another font :p
[01:53] <darkmatter> lol... I was just looking for input on the theme progress...sheesh :P
[01:53] <pmjdebruijn> is it a modified industrial?
[01:55] <darkmatter> nope.... its currently just a "live mockup" using the bugfest pixmap engine... just easier to work out the look n feel that way... but soon it'll start getting cairo love as its own engine
[01:56] <darkmatter> but yeah... its kind of a "neo industrial"... that was one of the sources of inspiration
[03:21] <arnason> Any one here?
[03:27] <kwwii> I'm here
[03:34] <arnason> ok... Where should I report an anoying "bug" in the new Launchpad BETA UI ? is there an IRC channel for the Beta testers?
[03:39] <darkmatter> morning kwwii :)
[03:41] <darkmatter> http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=397661996&context=set-72157594488098254&size=o <--- appreciate any input you could give an the scroll troughs fella's.. they dont quite seem "right" to me
[03:52] <kwwii> arnason: not that I know of
[03:53] <kwwii> arnason: I guess reporting a bug would be the best
[03:54] <kwwii> darkmatter: wow, that looks awesome
[03:54] <arnason> kwwii: well... thanks anyway...
[03:54] <kwwii> darkmatter: perhaps if you made them shallower
[03:54] <kwwii> ie. less dark gradient on the left
[03:55] <darkmatter> kwwii, yeah... was thinking they were a bit dark
[03:56] <kwwii> one thing that i notice is the selection in the menus
[03:56] <kwwii> I think it looks too 3d-is for me
[03:58] <darkmatter> kwwii, yeah... was going to flatten, darken/saturate it slightly.. maybe indent it slightly *shrug*. save the actual "3d" for the buttons
[03:59] <darkmatter> the 3d doesnt quite fit with the perforated paper menu thingy
[03:59] <kwwii> exactly, the menus seems very light, which is nice
[05:54] <troy_s> kwwii did you get that post with the work that fellow did on the oo icons?
[06:12] <troy_s> kwwii ping me when you are in.
[06:12] <troy_s> pmjdebruijn: Just to give you a heads up, photos are pretty out of scope regarding sabdfl.
[06:13] <troy_s> He spent a good deal of money on a photo set once and was burned.  As a result, he is currently in a state of 'avoid all communication' with the design pattern (inferred)
[06:13] <pmjdebruijn> avoid all communication?
[06:13] <pmjdebruijn> why weren't the photos published?
[06:14] <pmjdebruijn> I can understand not including them
[06:14] <troy_s> google.
[06:14] <troy_s> you can find them
[06:15] <troy_s> there are a few professional photographers in our midst
[06:15] <troy_s> i don't think the issue is a lack of content
[06:15] <troy_s> ;)
[06:16] <pmjdebruijn> if it's not easily accessible people won't find it :)
[06:16] <troy_s> the point is that there are no photos for a reason
[06:16] <troy_s> it has nothing to do with the desire to have photos (aside from the functional issues regarding wallpapers of course)
[06:49] <troy_s> I think I loosely described why
[06:50] <pmjdebruijn> maybe I'm not getting the first sentence?
[06:51] <pmjdebruijn> your point being that the SAPDFL doesn't want anything in without being Ubuntu related?
[06:52] <troy_s> No
[06:53] <pmjdebruijn> ok
[06:53] <pmjdebruijn> then I definately don't understand. sorry
[06:55] <troy_s> All of art and design is entirely about communication ultimately -- much like any of the other forms of language.  When you choose a photo / image / etc., you are going to communicate in the destination audience's mind -- it is unavoidable.
[06:55] <troy_s> that said
[06:55] <troy_s> he got burned once on a poorly planned implementation
[06:56] <troy_s> and the overall result was to avoid all forms of communcation
[06:57] <troy_s> (or at least try -- and if you look at the current trend in default wallpaper / gdm, the results would bear that notion out)
[06:59] <pmjdebruijn> ah
[06:59] <pmjdebruijn> understandable, but a shame...
[07:00] <troy_s> Indeed.
[07:00] <troy_s> Of course, once you resign yourself to the fact that effective art and design is going to communicate, and choose to follow that out, you need to decide overall what you intend to communicate and to whom.
[07:00] <pmjdebruijn> I understand the problem
[07:01] <troy_s> If we start attempting to really direct art and design without considering those very real effects, the pattern is no better than where it currently is.
[07:01] <pmjdebruijn> but that requires immense knowledge of different cultures
[07:01] <pmjdebruijn> which I severely lack
[07:01] <troy_s> Yes.  That is one of the more fascinating issues regarding the nature of this situation.
[07:02] <pmjdebruijn> my point being that Microsoft and Apple both supply out of the box cool wallpapers, and thus so should Ubuntu, to be at least on par with them...
[07:03] <troy_s> Have you read Diana Fong's blog?
[07:03] <troy_s> Well the wallpapers in BOTH of those
[07:03] <troy_s> are examined and evaluated by a very well educated set of artists.
[07:03] <pmjdebruijn> she's from RedHat right?
[07:03] <troy_s> Yes... there is an interesting post regarding her wallpaper (which is amazing) and contrast.
[07:04] <troy_s> It is loosely the belief that I have for wallpapers too -- that a wallpaper isn't something like a picture.
[07:04] <pmjdebruijn> oh those are really sweet
[07:05] <troy_s> It should be more like the wallpaper in your house -- not overwhelming -- enough to smatter all over your house or -- in the case of desktop wallpaper -- stare at for long periods without becoming too gaudy.
[07:05] <pmjdebruijn> indeed
[07:06] <kwwii> troy_s: pong
[07:07] <kwwii> troy_s: can
[07:07] <kwwii> 't see the screenshot on the OO icons
[07:07] <kwwii> I'll install them later and check them out
[07:10] <troy_s> kwwii yeah... it would be a sin if we found a community contribution that greatly
[07:10] <troy_s> smoothed out human for gnome
[07:10] <troy_s> (as the long silly diatribe in that desktop effects thread explains)
[07:11] <kwwii> hehe
[07:12] <kwwii> if they are decent tango icons for OO then we should probably take 'em
[07:24] <troy_s> i think they are Human
[07:24] <troy_s> not tango
[07:24] <troy_s> as tango and human, in my eyes, are pretty far apart -- what's your thinking on it kwwii?
[07:25] <kwwii> troy_s: yes, quite different in certain aspects
[07:26] <troy_s> not to mention colour tones being possibly the most recognizable
[07:26] <troy_s> human is quite vibrant in Dave's choice of the default orange
[07:34] <troy_s> kwwii you have a screenshot of the newer gdm?
[07:36] <troy_s> kwwii?
[07:37] <kwwii> troy_s: still working on things, have one in a bit
[07:40] <kwwii> unfortunately inksacpe takes half an hour to render the bg
[07:40] <kwwii> but that is much better than the desktop wallpaper ;-)
[07:41] <troy_s> That is completely strange.
[07:41] <troy_s> Oh I found out the source of your 2 != 1.995334999 SVG issue...
[07:41] <troy_s> It is an option in Inkscape
[07:42] <troy_s> Ship me your sources and let me try a render on my box -- I am running native 64 bit and I swear I have never seen rendering times that are like that.
[07:43] <kwwii> I build it one or twice a week
[07:43] <troy_s> Yeah, but you are running 32 bit yes?
[07:43] <kwwii> yepp
[07:43] <troy_s> I would be interested to benchmark it against a 64 bit render.
[07:43] <troy_s> And see how much difference there is...
[07:44] <troy_s> We could do an 'unofficial' benchmark based on your wallpaper.
[07:47] <kwwii> yeah
[07:47] <troy_s> is your source in the wallpaper push?
[07:47] <kwwii> here is the gdm: http://sinecera.de/ubuntu_feisty_screen17.png
[07:48] <kwwii> nope, no sources yet
[07:48] <kwwii> wanted to clean things up first
[07:50] <kwwii> here it is, if you want to play with it: http://sinecera.de/drawing1a.png
[07:50] <kwwii> erm make that svg
[07:50] <troy_s> Uh that's the png though
[07:50] <troy_s> you have the svg there kwwii?
[07:50] <troy_s> I just want to test render speeds.
[07:50] <kwwii> replace the png with svg in that link
[07:51] <troy_s> and that link gives 404
[07:51] <troy_s> okie
[07:51] <troy_s> Now where are you getting those times from?
[07:51] <troy_s> Export
[07:52] <kwwii> export as bitmap
[07:52] <kwwii> page at 1600x1200
[07:52] <kwwii> I also did one 1920x1280 (or whatever the res is)
[07:52] <kwwii> if you get times much less than 2 hours let me know
[07:53] <troy_s> give me a second
[07:58] <troy_s> 2 hours?
[07:58] <troy_s> it is approximately 1/3rd done now.
[07:58] <troy_s> so far about 1:30 has expired.
[07:58] <troy_s> kwwii?
[07:58] <troy_s> now its half
[07:58] <troy_s> 1:40
[07:58] <troy_s> just over half
[07:59] <troy_s> done
[07:59] <troy_s> at 1920x1440
[07:59] <troy_s> under 2 mins.
[07:59] <troy_s> kwwii?
[08:01] <kwwii> lol
[08:01] <kwwii> I wonder why that is
[08:01] <troy_s> Ok i am now timing it
[08:01] <kwwii> which version are you using?
[08:01] <troy_s> just a recent cvs pull
[08:01] <troy_s> compiled on the 20th
[08:02] <troy_s> but i have NEVER had render times like yous
[08:02] <troy_s> yours
[08:02] <kwwii> maybe they fixed it, it was a known bug
[08:02] <troy_s> 30 seconds.
[08:02] <troy_s> elapsed...
[08:02] <troy_s> hold tight
[08:02] <troy_s> i am also rendering it in the 1920 format
[08:02] <troy_s> so my times will be a little higher.
[08:02] <troy_s> 1 minute elapsed
[08:04] <troy_s> Ok so at 1920x1280
[08:04] <troy_s> final render time is
[08:05] <troy_s> 2 minutes 48 seconds.
[08:05] <kwwii> lol
[08:05] <kwwii> a bit quicker
[08:05] <troy_s> kwwii try a recompile, and if it still happens, but as I said
[08:05] <kwwii> yeah, I will
[08:05] <troy_s> mine has always blazed
[08:05] <troy_s> even editing in standard resolution blurs/ etc
[08:05] <troy_s> has been quite manageable with quite a few layers.
[08:06] <troy_s> (although I have found I can decrease the complexity by providing custom shapes to blur as opposed to layers of objects)
[08:06] <troy_s> You need several more layers in there to make editing that thing a little more manageable.
[08:07] <troy_s> Its a bit of a pig right now... lol.
[08:07] <troy_s> kwwii -- you could probably reduce it a helluva lot by creating a custom shape for the tan blur portions and integrating them into one layer.
[08:08] <kwwii> troy_s: yepp, like I said, I hadn't cleaned it up yet :-)
[08:14] <troy_s> kwwii are you doing a recompile?
[08:15] <troy_s> even with a recompile, the differences shouldn't be 2 hours.
[08:15] <troy_s> that is bloody ridiculous.
[08:21] <kwwii> trying it out now
[08:27] <kwwii> it is much faster
[08:27] <kwwii> about 3 min
[08:27] <kwwii> much better than about 3 hours
[08:28] <troy_s> lol
[08:28] <troy_s> Yeah, that seemed a bit silly.
[08:30] <kwwii> ok, tired of gdm...doing the kubuntu logo a bit
[08:33] <kwwii> pretty soon we can call this all kwubuntu
[08:33] <kwwii> :p
[08:39] <troy_s> yeah it will blur into a big strange hybrid of gradients.
[08:39] <troy_s> lol
[10:36] <kwwii> ok, one last change for gdm tonight
[10:36] <kwwii> now I am done with it for a few days


[17:50] <Towkir> anyone free to help ??
[17:51] <teward> Towkir: ask your real question
[17:52] <Towkir> specially better if kubuntu user
[17:52] <Towkir> thanks teward
[17:52] <Towkir> I was trying to generate fingerprint on my kubuntu
[17:52] <Towkir> but gpg --fingerprint is not doing anything
[17:52] <teward> Towkir: general support in the given channel for the release - #kubuntu for Kubuntu for instance
[17:53] <teward> start there, since this is bug triage and bug questions primarily.
[17:53] <Towkir> thanks


[03:40] <sbalneav> Evening all
[04:01] <LaserJock> sbalneav: around still?
[04:02] <sbalneav> I surely am
[04:03] <sbalneav> Want me on pidgin?
[04:03] <LaserJock> sbalneav: no, that's fine
[04:04] <LaserJock> sbalneav: I need a script
[04:04] <sbalneav> Whatcha need?
[04:04] <LaserJock> sbalneav: just something that will s/foo/bar/ in all the files in a directory (that has several directories)
[04:04] <sbalneav> Recursive find and replace?
[04:05] <LaserJock> yep
[04:05] <sbalneav> That should be a one-liner.
[04:05] <LaserJock> sbalneav: also look what I did this evening: http://paste.ubuntu.com/293624/
[04:05] <LaserJock> sbalneav: I know, but .... I'm a chemist
[04:05] <sbalneav> Holy crap
[04:06] <sbalneav> lemme just test, but it should be:
[04:06] <sbalneav> find . -exec sed -i -e 's/foo/bar/g' {} \;
[04:06] <sbalneav> but lemme test that.
[04:08] <sbalneav> find . -type f -exec sed -i -e 's/bar/hhhhh/g' {} \;
[04:08] <sbalneav> to explain:
[04:10] <sbalneav> find, in the current directory (.) recursively, all regular files (-type f) and execute on them the command "sed -i (edit file in place) -e (expression) " on the file you found ({}) and \; terminates the find.
[04:10] <sbalneav> howzzat?
[04:10] <LaserJock> ahh
[04:10] <LaserJock> I was close
[04:11] <LaserJock> I missed the -i and -e on sed
[04:11] <sbalneav> Just in case you MIGHT want to take a backup of all the files in the hierarchy.
[04:11] <LaserJock> I pretty much had the find part ok
[04:11] <sbalneav> 'cuz you can never have enough backups.
[04:13] <sbalneav> So, that's all the wiki pages you've touched tonight?
[04:15] <LaserJock> sbalneav: not hardly
[04:15] <LaserJock> sbalneav: that's the list of wiki pages we have
[04:15] <LaserJock> somewhat organized
[04:16] <sbalneav> Ah
[04:16] <sbalneav> Well, thats great.
[04:16] <sbalneav> I could start poking about.
[04:17] <sbalneav> Nah.
[04:17] <sbalneav> My time's better spent packaging.
[04:17] <sbalneav> and bug fixing
[04:17] <sbalneav> and getting the ldap tools written.
[04:18] <LaserJock> I did delete a bunch of pages tonight
[04:19] <LaserJock> woot \o/
[04:19] <LaserJock> the DVD works again
[05:05] <jsgotangco> LaserJock: should i download the latest?
[05:06] <LaserJock> jsgotangco: yes!
[05:06] <jsgotangco> okay
[07:38] <daya> ogra, hi just a quick question, for ltsp shall I install alternate cd (9.04) only for both desktop ver and it
[07:39] <daya> I mean do I need to install desktop ver and then alternate cd or only alternate cd
[07:53] <alkisg_work> daya: only the alternate
[07:53] <alkisg_work> Press F4 when it starts and select "install an ltsp server"
[08:04] <daya> alkisg_work, ok thanks a lot
[08:39] <alkisg_work> stgraber: Hello! I'm on a "free day" on the school lab, so I got much time to experiment. For the italc bug (didn't try gdb yet): on most clients I'm getting "<unknown>: Fatal IO error 14 (Bad address) on X server :0.0" which doesn't help much, but on one particular client I got a more specific "*** glibc detected *** ica: corrupted double-linked list: 0x0a3abe30 ***" bug: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/293711/
[08:45] <alkisg_work> I tried running `gdb ica` on one client, and after 1 minute of demo mode it crashed with the same "Fatal IO" error, but gdb didn't report any additional info except for a [Thread xxx exited].
[09:18] <alkisg_work> !italc-client
[09:18] <alkisg_work> !info italc-client
[09:28]  * alkisg_work downloads the italc .ddeb to try to get a usable backtrace...
[09:45]  * alkisg_work sees that running the previous version of the program with gdb made the problem disappear! Arghhh :(
[14:57] <sbalneav> Morning LaserJock
[14:58] <LaserJock> morning sbalneav
[14:58] <LaserJock> I managed to upload edubuntu-docs last night
[14:58] <LaserJock> hopefully that is the last upload we need for Karmic
[15:01] <sbalneav> ok
[15:02] <LaserJock> but it looks like we're missing some essential pieces on the DVD
[15:02] <LaserJock> no LTSP and no edubuntu-desktop tasks in tasksel :(
[15:05] <alkisg> no LTSP is indeed a big loss
[15:06] <jbicha> good morning
[15:07] <jbicha> finally got the new DVD downloaded, I had trouble with zsync earlier and had to use rsync
[15:07] <sbalneav> LaserJock: That just a bug we can patch, or a larger issue?
[15:09] <LaserJock> it's just a seed issue
[15:09] <LaserJock> I need to figure out what the magic incantation is to get it back on :-)
[15:10] <LaserJock> for a task to show up all the packages needed for the task must be included
[15:10] <LaserJock> so I must have cut out something they needed
[15:10] <LaserJock> it shouldn't require an upload
[15:10] <LaserJock> just a seed change and rebuild of the .iso
[15:11] <sbalneav> I'm just chatting now with some folks in debian-edu about ldap stuff, and how they handle pre-conf of ldap.
[15:12] <LaserJock> ah, excellent
[15:15] <sbalneav> Here's what I'd like to accomplish: maybe someone (LaserJock) can tell me if this is possible.
[15:15] <sbalneav> package called edubuntu-ldap-conf
[15:15] <sbalneav> pre-depends on slapd
[15:16] <sbalneav> somehow manages to pre-seed some of the debconf questions that the slapd package asks
[15:16] <sbalneav> is that possible?
[15:16] <alkisg> Wouldn't that be "post-depends"?
[15:16] <alkisg> (I don't know if such a thing exists...)
[15:16] <LaserJock> no
[15:16] <LaserJock> it'd have to be pre-depends
[15:16] <LaserJock> but even then I don't know if you can pre-seed debconf like that
[15:17] <sbalneav> eurgh
[15:17] <sbalneav> slapd asks lots of nasty questions
[15:17] <sbalneav> like
[15:17] <LaserJock> well, we can preseed on install
[15:17] <sbalneav> "What do you want to use for your back end database? HDB or DBD?"
[15:18] <LaserJock> that's why I like having a DVD
[15:18] <alkisg> How about this one: pre-depends "sbalneav's-slapd-helper", and depends "slapd" => this way wouldn't the helper run before the slapd, and get a chance to seed it?
[15:18] <LaserJock> we lost a lot of flexibility
[15:18] <sbalneav> Can task-sel's preseed?
[15:19] <LaserJock> not sure, I don't think so though
[15:19] <LaserJock> but I know you can preseed in the text-based installer
[15:23] <LaserJock> stgraber: ping
[15:28] <LaserJock> darn it, I think I'm going to have to make the DVD huge again
[15:31] <sbalneav> Well, define huge? :) less than 4.7 gigs I hope :)
[15:31] <LaserJock> yes
[15:31] <LaserJock> but maybe adding another GB
[15:32] <LaserJock> right now you can't install edubuntu-desktop off of the text-based installer
[15:32] <LaserJock> also, I've narrowed down the included languages to like the top 5 or so
[15:33] <sbalneav> We don't have enough room for all of 'em?
[15:33] <LaserJock> we could just not have edubuntu-desktop installable via d-i
[15:33] <LaserJock> well, technically yeah
[15:34] <LaserJock> but I'm afraid if we load up the DVD the first round 1) it doesn't leave a lot of room for future expansion and 2) might scare off a lot of people with a huge download just to try it out
[15:36] <LaserJock> I just add on greek and finnish
[15:36] <alkisg> :)
[15:37] <alkisg> LaserJock: how much MB do the additional languages "cost"?
[15:37] <LaserJock> I don't know
[15:37] <LaserJock> I'm trying to figure that out
[15:37] <ogra> LaserJock, pitti has a table with that
[15:37] <ogra> language by size
[15:38] <LaserJock> ogra: is it on people.canonical.com you think?
[15:39] <ogra> yes, but i dont know the exact url
[15:39] <jbicha> LaserJock: it looks like ltsp-server-standalone is part of edubuntu-server because it's being installed right now on my text-based install
[15:39] <LaserJock> jbicha: hmm, it should be
[15:40] <jbicha> but I thought you said earlier it wasn't
[15:42] <LaserJock> sorry
[15:42] <LaserJock> *shouldn't be
[15:42]  * LaserJock is doing a million things and his typing is suffering
[15:43] <LaserJock> so it looks like the languages run something like 10-20MB/language
[15:44] <LaserJock> there are a total of 135 language
[15:44] <LaserJock> so yeah, including all of them will be ~ 1GB
[15:45] <jbicha> well we don't need 135 languages by default
[15:48] <LaserJock> jbicha: right, but the question is what ones do we need
[15:49] <LaserJock> I have a list of like the top 10 most spoken languages
[15:54] <alkisg> Well if you could get your hands on the previous edubuntu download stats...
[15:55] <LaserJock> hmm
[15:59] <LaserJock> ok, well, that's the lang pack issue
[16:00] <LaserJock> edubuntu-desktop doesn't show up because the edubuntu-desktop.deb isn't on the DVD
[16:00] <LaserJock> the question is if we want to have it possible for people to install Edubuntu standalone in the text-based installer
[16:02] <alkisg> Is a text-based installer necessary?
[16:04] <stgraber> LaserJock: pong
[16:04] <LaserJock> stgraber: do you know if there is supposed to be a LTSP task?
[16:04] <LaserJock> in tasksel?
[16:05] <LaserJock> alkisg: it is for anything other than Edubuntu standalone
[16:05] <jbicha> alkisg: if the graphics card is not out-of-the-box supported by Ubuntu, then yes; for instance I need to use the alternate Ubuntu Karmic CD for most of my home computers
[16:05] <LaserJock> alkisg: but it could also be useful for people doing RAID/LVM or low memory, or yeah, graphics card problems
[16:05] <alkisg> jbicha: doesn't the "safe graphics mode" work for you?
[16:05] <LaserJock> it could be useful but I'm wondering if it's worth an extra ~500MB
[16:06] <jbicha> no, it did in Jaunty but xforcevesa seems broken for me on Karmic
[16:07] <jbicha> I've tried complaining about it but haven't got any feedback
[16:08] <alkisg> LaserJock, "it is for anything other than Edubuntu standalone" ==> what do you mean by that?
[16:08] <LaserJock> alkisg: I mean that an Edubuntu "workstation" (i.e. no server bits, just edu apps) can be installed via the live part of the DVD
[16:09] <LaserJock> nothing else, like LTSP, Edubuntu Server, etc. can be installed that way, only via the text-based installer
[16:09] <alkisg> LTSP is too big to be contained in the dvd - except if someone packages the chroot
[16:10] <ogra> alkisg, the live installer only copies the squashfs to the target device
[16:10] <alkisg> ogra, sure, but couldn't the CD also contain some packages outside of the squashfs image?
[16:10] <ogra> if you would want different flavours you would need a full squashfs setup for each of them
[16:11] <LaserJock> alkisg: LTSP fits fine on the DVD
[16:11] <ogra> alkisg, for ltsp you could work out a way to hook the udeb scripts into the live installer and make it build the chroot/image at the end of the install from CD
[16:11] <LaserJock> but not as a live installation currently
[16:11] <alkisg> ogra, it would still need to download 200 Mb from the internet
[16:11] <ogra> it simply requires someone to write the code :)
[16:11] <ogra> no, it wouldnt
[16:12] <ogra> since you have all packages on DVD already
[16:12] <alkisg> What I'm saying is that do we need those packages?
[16:12] <ogra> it will indeed only work in that setup
[16:12] <LaserJock> ogra: we wouldn't have then on the squashfs though would we?
[16:13] <ogra> LaserJock, nope, but ubiquity can use hook scripts
[16:13] <alkisg> Do we really need a text installer? Even if it costs 500 mb?
[16:13] <ogra> you can install additional stuff to the squashfs, but you need to explicitly code that
[16:13] <LaserJock> well, wait
[16:13] <ogra> alkisg, ??
[16:13] <ogra> alkisg, i think you understand the design wrong :)
[16:14] <alkisg> OK /me will stop talking, finish downloading the dvd, and talk again later :)
[16:14] <ogra> what costs you extra 500MB is the live installer :)
[16:14] <LaserJock> what's costing 500MB would be if we want to have edubuntu-desktop to be installable *both* from the Live part and the text-based part
[16:14] <LaserJock> i.e. you can install it from either installer
[16:14] <ogra> you need to
[16:14] <ogra> else ltsp wont work
[16:14] <LaserJock> no
[16:14] <LaserJock> ltsp just works on ubuntu-desktop
[16:14] <LaserJock> right?
[16:15] <ogra> well, yes, but then you dont have an edubuntu ltsp server
[16:15] <LaserJock> I'm saying if we don't put edubuntu-desktop on that we don't have to have the KDE stuff, gcompris, etc.
[16:15] <LaserJock> right
[16:16] <LaserJock> so I'm wondering how necessarily is it that it be an "Edubuntu" LTSP server
[16:16] <jbicha> moodle doesn't work right if I select mysql-server
[16:16] <LaserJock> darn it
[16:16] <LaserJock> stupid moodle
[16:16] <ogra> so you have no text based workstation install anymore (like it used to be) ?
[16:16] <LaserJock> I hate that thing
[16:16] <LaserJock> ogra: right now no
[16:16] <ogra> yeah, moodle is a pain
[16:17] <LaserJock> ogra: I sort of accidentally dropped edubuntu-desktop from the seed
[16:17] <ogra> ah
[16:17] <jbicha> I presume it works if I select the default postgresql
[16:17] <LaserJock> so I'm wondering if I should put it back in
[16:17] <ogra> if you have the space
[16:17] <LaserJock> jbicha: I doubt it
[16:17] <LaserJock> ogra: well, I have 4.2GB :-)
[16:17] <ogra> i think it works better with pgsql
[16:17] <LaserJock> ogra: I just don't like making everybody download that much
[16:18] <ogra> i know moquist put some effort into getting the default work
[16:18] <LaserJock> we're going from a 300 MB download (well, really 700+300MB)
[16:18] <ogra> so pgsql might work where mysql doesnt
[16:18] <jbicha> moodle allows me to pick mysql or postgre but doesn't check to see if mysql was installed first
[16:18] <LaserJock> yeah, but something with pgsql got messed up
[16:18] <ogra> ah
[16:18] <LaserJock> at least people have reported that it no longer works
[16:18] <ogra> well, my info is two years old :)
[16:18] <LaserJock> I think the moodle part might be ok
[16:19] <LaserJock> but something with pgsql has changed
[16:19] <ogra> not completely
[16:19] <ogra> it should have a pre-depends
[16:19] <ogra> but then you have to select a DB server and hardcode it
[16:19] <LaserJock> well
[16:19] <LaserJock> "ok" as in, it was working if you selected pgsql
[16:19] <ogra> which probably breaks existing setups with mysql
[16:20] <ogra> damned choice in linux :P
[16:20] <LaserJock> I really should make edubuntu-server dep on LTSP and edubuntu-desktop
[16:20] <LaserJock> and drop moodle until we figure out how to make it work right
[16:20] <ogra> ++
[16:20] <ogra> better than to ship something broken
[16:21] <LaserJock> especially since it comes up in the task list
[16:21] <ogra> and kick alkisg's butt for lucid so he ports ltsp-client-builder.udeb to ubiquity ;)
[16:21] <jbicha> it's too bad schooltool doesn't work Karmic's new zope yet either
[16:21] <alkisg> Trying to understand, take #2: the dvd contains a live image *and* some .deb files. The live image contains approximately what's gonna be installed in a workstation. The *.deb files could contain only the added features for a server installation, i.e. apache, moodle etc. On the other hand, LTSP needs a full set of packages in order to be installed. Why would we put those as *.deb files?
[16:21] <alkisg> ogra: right! :)
[16:22] <ogra> alkisg, because the build system does only support that atm
[16:22] <ogra> as well as the installers
[16:22] <jbicha> and it's not possible for the text-installer to apply the live image if we want to install "edubuntu-desktop"?
[16:22] <ogra> right
[16:22] <ogra> they work completely differently
[16:23] <alkisg> So we keep all those packages for the case that someone wants to use the text installer? Couldn't we just tell that guy to use plain ubuntu and install edubuntu-desktop later on? :D
[16:24] <ogra> the text installer gives you biggest flexibility ... you surely have 100s of different install variants with it ... the live installer only supports a single way of installation
[16:24] <alkisg> Sure, but that's what edubuntu is about: LESS options :D
[16:24] <ogra> alkisg, no, you keep all these packages for any other install than live
[16:24] <alkisg> (=to make it easier for teachers)
[16:25] <ogra> the live install (from a tech POV) is the actual wart here ... not the text install
[16:26] <alkisg> ogra: ok, try to see it from the teacher POV, who isn't really interested about the text installer...
[16:26] <alkisg> I.e. if he sees xforcevesa problems, he'll call the tech
[16:26] <alkisg> The tech may as well use the standard ubuntu cd/dvd, and install edubuntu-desktop later on
[16:26] <ogra>  alkisg so teachers are not intrested in anything but edubuntu dekstops ?
[16:26] <ogra> i doubt that
[16:26] <alkisg> So why keep the text installer in the edubuntu dvd? (from the teacher POV)
[16:27] <ogra> ogra@osiris:~$ grep -c ^Task /usr/share/tasksel/ubuntu-tasks.desc
[16:27] <ogra> 46
[16:27] <ogra> the text installer offers 46 preselected install variants plus any you can imagine if you intevene manually
[16:27] <ogra> the live installer offers exactly one
[16:28] <alkisg> Sure. As an sysadmin, I totally agree with you
[16:28] <alkisg> As a teacher, I don't understand what are you saying
[16:28] <sbalneav> Personally, I'd prefer to see us ditch the graphical installer, and go purely with an alternative install disk.
[16:28] <alkisg> :)
[16:28] <ogra> alkisg, *you* were the one pushing for LTSP installs from the edubuntu media
[16:28] <alkisg> ogra: sure, from within ubuquity
[16:28] <alkisg> Not from a text installer...
[16:28] <sbalneav> that way, people can use the dvd for ltsp installs.
[16:28] <ogra> if you think it's to compilcated for teahers, you should consider dropping it
[16:29] <ogra> alkisg, so where is the port of ltsp-client-builder to ubiquity ? :P
[16:29] <alkisg> Right! Now we're talking... :D
[16:29] <ogra> why didnt you port it yet
[16:29] <ogra> slacker  !!!
[16:29] <ogra> :P
[16:30] <alkisg> Because I'm stilll struggling with the ldap stuff, and waiting for sbalneav to give me his divine click-and-have-ldap-ready packages..
[16:30] <ogra> i think it's a good target to support it in lucid ..., i'm happy to give a hand with it
[16:30] <ogra> for karmic i think its simply over now
[16:30] <ogra> we're in final freeze
[16:30] <alkisg> ogra, well, whenever you got some time, I'd like your advice on how to do that
[16:30] <ogra> nothing but bugs marked critical will be touched anymore
[16:31] <ogra> alkisg, look at flash-kernel, it uses an udeb thats been originally written for the text installer ...
[16:31] <alkisg> E.g. me, highvoltage and LaserJock exchanged some thoughts about it, but don't have enough experience to select one method over the other...
[16:31] <ogra> this udeb (or it's postinst) is used by ubiquity
[16:32] <ogra> you can use ltsp-client-builder the same way
[16:32] <alkisg> OK, I'll have a look into that and try to see if we can have something for lucid
[16:32] <sbalneav> alkisg: what, are you expecting me to do this NOW? I was expecting to hopefully have something for 10.04
[16:33] <alkisg> sbalneav: nah, just joking man :)
[16:33] <alkisg> Take your time
[16:33] <sbalneav> Whew.
[16:33]  * alkisg wants to look at the virtual-users thing first
[16:33] <alkisg> I think it'll be even better than ldap/nfs
[16:34] <sbalneav> Remind me.   This makes it difficult to manage user accounts
[16:36] <alkisg> E.g. I name an account 'name1name2' from the names of the 2 students sitting on 1 pc
[16:36] <alkisg> Then, in the middle of the year, those 2 students take a fight, and don't want to sit together anymore
[16:36] <alkisg> I have to change the username, the path etc
[16:36] <alkisg> Then they always forget their passwords
[16:37] <alkisg> So "normal" user accounts don't mean much to teachers with multiple students per pc
[16:38] <alkisg> I thought this: what if only 1 user account existed per pc? named "user"?
[16:38] <alkisg> ...and all the home folders were "under" the teacher's "Documents"?
[16:38] <alkisg> ...and were mounted with sshfs on the clients?
[16:39] <alkisg> This way I could even move exercises around not concerning myself with ACLs etc,
[16:39] <alkisg> All the users would have /home/user as their home path making settings migration easier,
[16:39] <sbalneav> 200 megs of child porn show up under the home dir "user" on one of the machines.  Which of the 6 kids who log in on that machine did it?
[16:40] <alkisg> (that also helps with wine...)
[16:40] <sbalneav> One person, one account.
[16:40] <alkisg> All the student PCs have gdm set to autologon
[16:40] <sbalneav> Bad idea.
[16:40] <sbalneav> have them log in.
[16:40] <alkisg> The teacher preselects which class he wants to have
[16:41] <alkisg> So pc1/home/user maps to 'name1' with sshfs
[16:41] <alkisg> pc2/home/user maps to 'name2'
[16:41] <alkisg> When the class finishes, the teacher selects another set of users to autologon
[16:41] <alkisg> so pc1/home/user now maps to 'name15'
[16:41] <sbalneav> That's a HUGE change to how unix normally works.
[16:41] <alkisg> Right
[16:42] <sbalneav> you will run into MULTIPLE problems with many programs not liking that behaviour.
[16:42] <alkisg> Why? All that program will see is ONE user, with his path at /home/usr
[16:42] <alkisg> user
[16:42] <sbalneav> If you'd like to implement yourself that personally on your site, be my guest.
[16:42] <alkisg> If they can work with sshfs, they won't see any other users...
[16:43] <alkisg> Remember some people that come up to #ltsp and were asking to logon all the clients with the same user account?
[16:43] <sbalneav> But it's not going to be anything that I'm going to spend one iota of time on for edubuntu.
[16:43] <alkisg> Right
[16:43] <sbalneav> And we tell them: use multiple accounts.  The way you should.
[16:43] <alkisg> I'm not saying that this should be something for #edubuntu
[16:44] <alkisg> But I think it'll make things a lot easier for schools here in Greece, and maybe for those other people that asked the same thing in #ltsp
[16:44] <alkisg> Sure, until it's tried and working for several years, I'm not going to suggest to put such a thing upstream...
[16:45] <sbalneav> I say this with all respect and niceness, but it's a stupid idea.  drop it.  If you have ANY sort of trouble, there's NO way you're going to be able to PROVE who did what when.
[16:45] <sbalneav> Trust me: I work in the legal field.
[16:45] <alkisg> Why are you saying that? Each user still has his own home dir
[16:46] <alkisg> It's just symlinked to /home/user before the user logs in
[16:46] <sbalneav> but they *haven't authenticated themselves*
[16:46] <sbalneav> Like I say, porn shows up.  Kid says "I didn't do it.  Prove I did"
[16:46] <sbalneav> you cant.
[16:46] <alkisg> Sure i can
[16:46] <sbalneav> How?
[16:47] <alkisg> It's in his home folder
[16:47] <alkisg> in .mozilla
[16:47] <sbalneav> Yeah?  Who selected the home folder for him?
[16:47] <alkisg> You mean the act of entering a password?
[16:47] <sbalneav> You said the teacher selects the class, right?
[16:48] <alkisg> Yes, and has written down the names of the users and where they sit
[16:48] <alkisg> So he knows that students 1, 2 and 3 sit on PC1
[16:48] <sbalneav> And teachers *NEVER EVER EVER* make mistakes, and select the WRONG class, right?
[16:48] <sbalneav> Won't stand up in a court of law.
[16:49] <sbalneav> Won't even stand up to an angry parent.
[16:49] <alkisg> But 2 or 3 students are sitting on the same PC, you can't prove which of them started the porn thing
[16:49] <alkisg> You've already lost your case, even with normal user accounts
[16:49] <sbalneav> Sure you can.
[16:50] <sbalneav> If they log in AS THEMSELVES
[16:50] <sbalneav> That's why you HAVE to have 1 login per student, and force them to log in.
[16:50] <alkisg> They can't; the 2 or 3 of them need to have a shared account
[16:50] <sbalneav> Why?
[16:50] <alkisg> Because we only have 10 PCs for 20 students
[16:50] <alkisg> (or for 30 students)
[16:51] <alkisg> You can't tell them "you sit and logon, and the others just watch"
[16:51] <sbalneav> So, what, one types, one moves the mouse, and one watches the screen?
[16:51] <alkisg> Yes, and after 10 minutes they switch
[16:51] <alkisg> They even get a common degree (more or less)
[16:52] <sbalneav> Why can't one use it for 10 minutes, switch to another user, they use it for 10 minutes, etc?
[16:52] <alkisg> Because you'd loose all the time with user switching
[16:52] <alkisg> Imagine:
[16:52] <alkisg> Guys we start an exercise with gimp
[16:53] <alkisg> First student draws 1/3 of the image. Saves, logs off
[16:53] <alkisg> Second student logs on. Copies the exercise from the first student. Draws another 3rd, saves, logs off
[16:53] <alkisg> Third students logs on... etc
[16:53] <sbalneav> Oh, please, logging out and in takes less than 30 seconds!
[16:53] <sbalneav> and you put the image in a shared area.
[16:53] <sbalneav> they don't HAVE to copy it around.
[16:53] <alkisg> Tell a 10 y.o. student to copy a file from another home folder :)
[16:54] <sbalneav> I've had shared folders for YEARS.
[16:54] <alkisg> For kids < 10 y.o., the teacher put their password himself
[16:54] <alkisg> Do that for 30 students...
[16:55]  * sbalneav shrugs
[16:55] <sbalneav> Like I say, you've got absolutely NO way to say who's done what.
[16:55] <sbalneav> None.
[16:56] <alkisg> Sure I have... one of those 3 guys :) That's the best I can do.
[16:56] <alkisg> sbalneav: I've tried to have seperate accounts per students. It just isn't feasible in my situation...
[16:57] <sbalneav> alkisg: "one of those 3 guys" don't stand up in court.
[16:57] <sbalneav> and trust me
[16:58] <sbalneav> sooner or later, you're going to HAVE to narrow it down to "one of those 3 guys"
[16:58] <sbalneav> and since you CANT
[16:58] <sbalneav> it means you've got nothing :)
[16:58] <sbalneav> Just sayin' is all :)
[16:58] <alkisg> sbalneav: I've been burned by the law before for silly beurocracy things, I totally share your concern. It's just isn't possible.
[16:59] <LaserJock> can I interject some reality?
[16:59] <sbalneav> OK, well, that's fine, so long as you go into it with eyes open
[16:59] <LaserJock> we still haven't decided what to do for karmic
[17:00] <alkisg> sbalneav: currently, about 90% of greek teachers have one user per pc. Just one user per pc, not one user per class per pc. :)
[17:00]  * sbalneav scrolls back
[17:00]  * alkisg stops talking :)
[17:00] <sbalneav> LaserJock: Which, the ltsp tasksel we talking here?
[17:01] <LaserJock> well
[17:02] <LaserJock> 1) do we ship edubuntu-desktop in the text-based installer?
[17:02] <sbalneav> I'd say yes, if possible.
[17:02] <sbalneav> As I preferr the text based installer.
[17:03] <LaserJock> ok
[17:04] <LaserJock> 2) should we ship edubuntu-server (currently a broken moodle installer)?
[17:07] <stgraber> LaserJock: sorry for the delay
[17:07] <stgraber> LaserJock: it's not a task, it's a d-i component that you use by passing a custom .seed file
[17:07] <stgraber> going for some food, later all
[17:07] <LaserJock> hmm
[17:08] <LaserJock> this is confusing
[17:08] <jbicha> there's something ironic about children downloading child porn though
[17:08] <sbalneav> LaserJock: Hmm, if moodle's broken...
[17:08] <LaserJock> I swear there was a tasksel item for it
[17:08] <sbalneav> can we just dump moodle from edubuntu-server until we get it fixed?
[17:08] <alkisg> jbicha: lol! :D
[17:08] <LaserJock> sbalneav: well, all edubuntu-server is right now is a moodle installer
[17:09] <jbicha> & an LTSP server installer, right?
[17:09] <LaserJock> no
[17:09] <LaserJock> edubuntu-server shouldn't do anything with LTSP
[17:09] <jbicha> then how'd it get on my computer?
[17:10] <LaserJock> I don't know
[17:10] <jbicha> text install: I only selected edubuntu-server openssh-server and Ubuntu Desktop
[17:13] <ogra> jbicha, ise f4
[17:13] <LaserJock> man I hate this seed stuff
[17:13] <ogra> *use
[17:13] <LaserJock> f4 doesn't have any LTSP option for us
[17:13] <ogra> you select an edubuntu-server and use F4 to switch on the LTSP installation
[17:13] <ogra> oh
[17:13] <ogra> why is that ?
[17:13] <LaserJock> I have no idea
[17:14] <LaserJock> my guess is that maybe it's using an outdated file somewhere in the build script
[17:14] <ogra> well, seems it wasnt properly switched to the DVD
[17:14] <LaserJock> ok
[17:14] <ogra> it needs some preseed values and an entry in gfxboot
[17:14] <LaserJock> so what *should* happen
[17:15] <ogra> it should show you "Install an LTSP Server" in the F4 menu
[17:15] <LaserJock> is you hit F4 select LTSP, then go to the text-based installer
[17:15] <ogra> and that applies to *all* text based installs
[17:15] <LaserJock> and in there get the tasksel thing to fine-tune the non-LTSP components?
[17:18] <ogra> well, you get dropped into tasksel anyway in the text installer
[17:19] <ogra> the F4 option just triggers that the ltep env gets build at some point during install
[17:19] <ogra> *ltsp
[17:23] <LaserJock> so maybe it's just automatic on our DVD?
[17:23] <LaserJock> we already have it preseeded
[17:23] <alkisg> ogra, so if we press "Esc" on the installer to see the installer menu, we'd see the ltsp option on the edubuntu dvd?>:o=-Ohhsut47htrtfg
[17:23] <alkisg> g66yyt
[17:24] <alkisg> uu
[17:24] <alkisg> yhyty
[17:24] <alkisg> tytggyhuhugyydssazrefgrefgh;'p;kll'lk
[17:24] <alkisg> 4dasrdgdf4t4r
[17:24] <alkisg> awfd54tg
[17:24] <alkisg> er64t5gyhm
[17:25] <alkisg> (sorry my kid got the keyboard and I was away :))
[17:25]  * ogra tries severeal decipher mechanisms ...
[17:25] <ogra> ah, kid-cypher works :)
[17:25] <ogra> i dont know abour esc
[17:25] <ogra> *about
[17:25] <ogra> doesnt the gfxboot screen come up by default ?
[17:26] <alkisg> No no I mean after that, in the d-i
[17:26] <ogra> oh, esc wont do anything there
[17:26] <ogra> i think you need "go back"
[17:26] <alkisg> Right
[17:26] <alkisg> So ltsp will be there in the list of tasks?
[17:26] <ogra> and yes, there you should have an LTSP option to manually select
[17:27] <ogra> which is very uncomfortable :)
[17:27] <ogra> and the reason why i added the F4 option that autoselects the LTSP udeb
[17:30] <LaserJock> grrr
[17:30] <LaserJock> so perhaps it's the preseeds we're using
[17:31] <LaserJock> ubuntu has an ltsp.preseed
[17:32] <LaserJock> ubuntu has a cli, ltsp, and ubuntu preseed file
[17:33] <LaserJock> edubuntu has cli, cloud, edubuntu, ubuntu server, ubuntu-server-minimal, ubuntu-server-minimalvm, and workstation
[17:34] <ogra> yeah, you need the ltsp one too
[17:36] <LaserJock> so should I modify the edubuntu seed to take out the ltsp bits?
[17:36] <LaserJock> edubuntu preseed rather
[17:37] <ogra> no, you should just add the ltsp one
[17:39] <LaserJock> hmm
[17:39] <LaserJock> but wouldn't that still mean that no matter what you choose you'll get LTSP?
[17:49] <jbicha> so I tried moodle with postgre and I get the lovely PGSQL.5342 error which completely stops the installation
[17:50] <jbicha> which is prob worse than the failed mysql attempt which doesn't tell you it is broken
[17:53] <LaserJock> yeah, something's messed up
[17:54] <LaserJock> ogra: so you think just dropping the ltsp.preseed in there should work?
[17:55] <ogra> i think so, but it's years ago i touched that area of d-i so better confirm with someone from the installer team
[18:06] <Ahmuck> http://blogs.zdnet.com/perlow/?p=11197
[18:07] <Ahmuck> it's a good read
[18:07] <Ahmuck> Like my CEO example, these people may generate “soft” work products (word processing documents, spreadsheets, presentations, PDFs) that are going to be printed hardcopy, are usually not of a complex nature and/or do not need to be exchanged or originate from Windows/MS Office environments. The majority of home users fit into this category, as do high school and college students.
[18:11] <jbicha> I don't think mysql is even available on the edubuntu dvd
[18:12] <LaserJock> jbicha: that's entirely possible
[18:12] <LaserJock> jbicha: edubuntu-server is meant to use pgsql
[18:12] <jbicha> I've never used pgsql; are you supposed to setup a root password first like you do for mysql?
[18:13] <Ahmuck> edubuntu-server ?
[18:13] <Ahmuck> i've been here a while, but never heard of edubuntu-server
[18:14] <LaserJock> jbicha: I can't remember, I think it asks fewer questions though
[18:15] <LaserJock> Ahmuck: yeah, well ... you ain't missing much right now ;-)
[18:15] <Ahmuck> what is it?
[18:15] <Ahmuck> there are advantages/disadvantages either way.
[18:16] <LaserJock> the idea was to pull together useful server software for educational institutions
[18:16] <Ahmuck> any way of making it database neutral?
[18:16] <ogra> thats the prob
[18:16] <LaserJock> moodle, mediawiki maybe, schooltool perhaps
[18:16] <ogra> it *is* database neutral
[18:16] <Ahmuck> so pgsql is not used for writing?
[18:16] <ogra> which causes tons of failures
[18:16] <Ahmuck> as in hard writing, but simply as a storage mechanism?
[18:16] <LaserJock> the only thing we actually got into Main was moodle
[18:17] <Ahmuck> my understanding is that for reading, mysql is very good, and very easy to use/configure
[18:18] <LaserJock> you mean for reading the database?
[18:18] <Ahmuck> yes
[18:19] <LaserJock> well moodle will be doing both
[18:19] <LaserJock> mysql is pretty large
[18:19] <LaserJock> some people consider it sort of "bloat" for the purposes of an educational server
[18:19] <ogra> less bloat than oracle though :P
[18:20] <Ahmuck> i think you need to consider your user base
[18:21] <ogra> Ahmuck, hmm ?
[18:21] <Ahmuck> i've found pgsql more complex for new users
[18:21] <ogra> what has the user base to do with technical  packaging probs ?
[18:21] <Ahmuck> and unless your doing a large percentage of writes, i've found mysql to be very usable
[18:21] <ogra> a user will never touch any database directly
[18:21] <Ahmuck> never have to configure, setup, etc.?
[18:21] <LaserJock> hopefully not
[18:22] <Ahmuck> ur user is not the final end user, but the instructor that is setting the @#$%# up
[18:22] <ogra> the point is that moodle as it is in debian (and as we get it from them) runs on single standalone servers as wellas on 100 server clusters
[18:22] <ogra> so it is highly configurable and has a ton of options
[18:23] <ogra> what we attempted to do years ago when i created edubuntu-server was to have an out of the box setup that you can manage directly after install through the moodle admin interface
[18:23] <ogra> no user or admin should ever touch a database
[18:23] <ogra> the prob is the high configurability of the debian package here
[18:24] <ogra> and to find a proper setup for edubuntu without breaking that high configurability
[18:24] <ogra> so far all attempts failed
[18:24] <Ahmuck> k, makes sense.
[18:25] <Ahmuck> i'm back to lurking now
[18:25] <ogra> an enduser/admin should just select edubuntu-server at install time and get a properly working setup
[18:25] <ogra> that's been the ubuntu philosophy since the beginning ... its just not easy to achieve if you want to retain the debian flexibility
[18:41] <jbicha> is "No Interface for LTSP dhcpd configuration found" a normal error because I get it every time on the text-based installer
[19:07] <alkisg> That's because you don't have 2 ethernet cards... /me wishes the ltsp installer would install dnsmasq in that case ;)
[19:09] <jbicha> does dnsmasq work so it doesn't require 2 ethernet cards? I've never used ltsp
[19:10] <alkisg> Well there are 2 main cases with 1 card: either the ltsp server is also the dhcp server, or it isn't. dnsmasq can work in both of those cases, but mainly helps in the second case.
[20:05] <highvoltage> hi
[20:08] <LaserJock> hi
[20:12] <jbicha> ah, I think I finally figured out how to get moodle working
[20:20] <jbicha> I chose to "deny all except localhost" during installation, well it looks like apache2 was registering me as ::1 instead of <IP_ADDRESS>
[20:21] <jbicha> I created a page with the issues I've found, I don't know if you want bug reports for any of them https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/KarmicKnownIssues
[20:21] <jbicha> highvoltage: you were in Bahrain once, right?
[20:23] <highvoltage> jbicha: yep
[20:24] <jbicha> highvoltage: I believe you're famous in our Linux group
[20:25] <highvoltage> jbicha: heh! I *almost* went to a meeting of yours once, but otherwise I can't imaging why :)
[20:26] <jbicha> yeah, we were expecting you
[20:26] <highvoltage> well, tonight a random guy sitting next to me on a plane recognised me from planet ubuntu, so that was a bit weird.
[20:26] <jbicha> next time you're in Bahrain, be sure to stop by
[20:26] <highvoltage> jbicha: will do. I have some good friends there, perhaps next year
[20:27] <sbalneav> Hmmm, looks like debian-edu's using cipux for handling admin tasks.
[20:27] <sbalneav> http://wiki.debian.org/CipUX?action=show&redirect=DebianEdu%2FCipUX
[20:27] <jbicha> looks like Bahrain gets to open next Formula 1 season, look forward to meeting you if it works out
[20:36] <jbicha> what does the "unattended operation" checkbox do when setting up Moodle?
[20:40] <LaserJock> sbalneav: does CipUX look useful?
[20:54] <jbicha> at least part of cipux is in the Karmic repos
[21:34] <chang-li> hi , can ltsp-server & edubuntu work with the xfce install?
[21:34] <LaserJock> yeah
[21:35] <LaserJock> you might end up having to install a lot of packages, but it should work fine
[21:35] <chang-li> I am install via pxe & tftpboot  xubuntu.
[21:36] <chang-li> Then I guess, will install ltsp-server.
[21:37] <dgroos> Good afternoon.
[21:38] <chang-li> hi
[21:39] <dgroos> chang-li: howdy
[21:40] <dgroos> my ltsp clients can't boot :(
[21:42] <chang-li> i'm not there yet. just doing a net install via tftboot of xubuntu.
[21:44] <dgroos> not sure how to address this.  They seem to load an image, but then give an error just as the loading splash screen starts to show.
[21:51] <sbalneav> LaserJock: Looks... interesting anyway.
[21:51] <sbalneav> I'll have to start playing with it.
[21:51] <chang-li> dgroos: could be default video setting
[21:51] <sbalneav> The debian-edu people are stoked that someone from edubuntu's in there talking to them.
[21:52] <dgroos> chang-li: thanks.
[21:52] <LaserJock> sbalneav: well, we've always been here :-)
[21:52] <dgroos> is that something that would just change?
[21:54] <dgroos> I'm thinking it might be a network setting.  After it doesn't boot successfully, it says a few things about address and gateway etc.. then:
[21:55] <dgroos> Error: Connect: Connection refused
[21:56] <dgroos> I don't get why it says (just a little before the previous message I just posted): rootserver: <IP_ADDRESS>
[21:58] <GJ> Look in your /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf file
[21:58] <dgroos> GJ: thanks, I'll check it out!  what am I looking for?
[22:00] <GJ> The option routers xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx should point at the server.
[22:00] <GJ> I got in on this conversation late, so I'm assuming your LTSP server is not at the ip address you gave above.
[22:01] <dgroos> hmmm... it points to <IP_ADDRESS>, not the building nic, <IP_ADDRESS>  is that right?
[22:02] <GJ> Is <IP_ADDRESS> the address of the server on which the ltsp chroot is located?
[22:04] <dgroos> well, <IP_ADDRESS> has always been the ip I would get on the nic pointing toward the switch which goes to my thin client lan, if that's what you mean?
[22:04] <dgroos> I'd see this when I did an ifconfig, for example.
[22:05] <GJ> Well, that's configured correctly then.
[22:05] <GJ> I had that same message and finally got past that yesterday. Let me try to remember what I did.
[22:06] <GJ> I tried so many different things to resolve the issue that I cant remember what finally fixed it.
[22:07] <dgroos> :)  I've been there many times...
[22:08] <dgroos> On the TC screen where the failure is occurring, it says:
[22:11] <dgroos> dns0 : <IP_ADDRESS> (seems fine) dns1 :     <IP_ADDRESS>   domain : example.com  rootserver: <IP_ADDRESS>   rootpath: /opt/ltsp/i386  filename :  /ltsp/i386/nbi.img   Error:  Connect:  Connection refused (this all, from the <IP_ADDRESS> seems strange)
[22:13] <GJ> I know I removed the /opt directory and the /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp directory and then ran "sudo ltsp-build-client --arch i386.
[22:17] <LaserJock> phew
[22:17] <LaserJock> well
[22:18] <LaserJock> I think I fixed the DVD
[22:19] <LaserJock> it turns out the DVD was 1) using the old preseed file from the "good ole days" of the 2 CD installer and 2) we weren't in the list of projects to include the LTSP option
[22:22] <LaserJock> I also added several more of the top used languages and greek and finnish for our friends ;-)
[22:22] <sbalneav> \o/
[22:22] <GJ> dgroos, is your server 32 or 64 bit?
[22:23] <dgroos> 32 AFAIK
[22:24] <GJ> So your chroot environment is i386 then, right? and /opt/ltsp/i386 exists?
[22:25] <GJ> rather than /opt/ltsp/amd64?
[22:25] <dgroos> hmmm... I just tried to reboot again (done this a few times) on the client and it got further this time, almost seemed to make it all the way but went back to the same screen :(
[22:25] <dgroos> yes it does...
[22:26] <GJ> what OS are you using?
[22:26] <dgroos> Another part of the error message that shows up is, "target filesystem doesn't have /sbin/init.  No init found.  Try passing init-bootarg.  Does this mean anything?
[22:26] <dgroos> I'm using Jaunty...
[22:26] <GJ> No doubt because the volumes aren't mounting properly.
[22:27] <dgroos> I see, that's what it means, yes, it says that...
[22:28] <GJ> You are experiencing exactly the same situation I struggled with for 3 days.
[22:28] <dgroos> seems like the strange thing is the rootserver: <IP_ADDRESS>...
[22:28] <dgroos> Had you been doing anything with iTALC?
[22:29] <dgroos> Had your system been working fine for a good while?
[22:29] <GJ> I just installed Jaunty on a server with a new hard drive Sunday and finally resolved the last of the LTSP issues this morning.
[22:29] <GJ> No iTALC
[22:29] <dgroos> Congratulations :D  It sure is great when it works!
[22:30] <dgroos> I've been running successfully for almost a month in my class.
[22:30] <GJ> Are there any other DHCP servers on your network? I just can't figure out why your rootserver address is wrong
[22:31] <dgroos> And then this just popped up as I'm now expanding: adding another teacher and his classes.  And, his hardware.
[22:31] <dgroos> When you say network, do you mean the thin client side or the building side?
[22:31] <GJ> Can you ping this <IP_ADDRESS> address?
[22:32] <dgroos> it says, ping: icmp open socket: Operation not permitted
[22:32] <dgroos> not sure what that means.
[22:32] <GJ> Did you ping from the server?
[22:33] <dgroos> I'm ssh'ed into the server and ran it from there... but I can use NXclient and get onto the server and run from that desktop... I'll try that!
[22:34] <GJ> I always kick myself for not recording every step I take to resolve issues, but I'm always in such a hurry that I dont want to "waste time" writing things down.
[22:36] <dgroos> :)
[22:36] <dgroos> so what does: ping: icmp open socket: Operation not permitted, mean?
[22:37] <GJ> Your guess is as good as mine!
[22:37] <Ahmuck> it means icmp is closed
[22:39] <dgroos> Hi Ahmuck
[22:39] <GJ> Did you try removing /opt and /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp and rebuilding your chroot?
[22:40] <GJ> Or is that working for existing clients and only the ones you just added are having problems?
[22:41] <dgroos> Well, true.  for the client that had been signed on, things were working just fine.  The problem occured for a client trying to log on.
[22:42] <dgroos> I haven't done this yet, I've got a lot of customization in the chroot...
[22:44] <GJ> So let me get this straight. Existing client machines can connect and students can log on, but the recently added client machines have the Connection Refused error?
[22:45] <dgroos> No.  what I meant is that, I was logged in to a thin client and was using it all afternoon, but found out that if one tried to sit at another TC and reboot, it wouldn't work.
[22:47] <GJ> So you have no idea where a machine with an ip address of <IP_ADDRESS> is located?
[22:47] <dgroos> ... it couldn't boot, but if it had already loaded in image it could continue to work.
[22:47] <GJ> Clearly.
[22:47] <dgroos> No...
[22:47] <dgroos> right.
[22:49] <GJ> And clearly that rootserver ip address is the culprit. Find the rogue DHCP server on your network!
[22:50] <dgroos> Right.  Now would that be inside the internal LAN, my thin client LAN or would it be outside of it on the building?
[22:51] <dgroos> *building side of the LAN?
[22:52] <dgroos> Think I might have found it!
[22:54] <GJ> Did you "sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys" to make sure the server and clients machines are on the same page, so to speak?
[22:55] <jbicha> does anyone know what the "unattended operation" checkbox does when setting up Moodle?
[22:56] <dgroos> :D  You were right!  "Find the rogue DHCP server on your network" The teacher next door had plugged in an old windows computer to our ltsp LAN and it was doing just that--conflicting.
[22:56] <dgroos> We unplugged that computer and things worked again :)
[22:57] <GJ> Great!
[22:57] <dgroos> Thanks for your help in tracking this down!!!
[22:57] <GJ> You're welcome!
[23:00] <GJ> Now here's a question that should be easy for someone to answer for me...
[23:00] <dgroos> Now I can return to my many hours of trying to debug my plone installation...  you never know when you will hit upon a solution... just gotta keep trudging on...
[23:03] <GJ> I just used the Edubuntu 9.04 addon cd to install some classroom software. When I tried to add the software it went to Internet for the software rather than the cd. Now that's a problem when you're operating over a satellite connection with a limit on the amount of downstream total in a 24 hour period. Why didn't add/remove just use the cd?
[23:05] <dgroos> I'll try--not sure why it did it, but I think you could go to sources and make sure that CD is checked, and maybe that the other ones are unchecked.  Should limit choices of updating to the CD.
[23:06] <GJ> I'll check that. But you would think that would be the default behavior when you pop a cd into the server and select "start addon installer"
[23:07] <dgroos> I'd think so.  Where are you working out of?
[23:07] <GJ> especially when they call the cd the Edubuntu addon cd!
[23:08] <dgroos> There's some interesting history there, though not sure of the details.
[23:08] <GJ> ?
[23:09] <dgroos> Where are you that you have a satellite connection?
[23:09] <GJ> Apache Indian reservation in Arizona
[23:09] <dgroos> cool.
[23:09] <GJ> DSL is too slow here and no cable at all
[23:10] <dgroos> I find it quite interesting to see where people are working/where they are at.
[23:10] <GJ> satellite and t1 are the only choices
[23:11] <GJ> t1 is way too expensive.
[23:11] <dgroos> Indeed.
[23:11] <GJ> This satellite connection is costing us more than $200 a month as it is.
[23:11] <GJ> But we have to have the bandwidth
[23:12] <dgroos> ouch!
[23:13] <dgroos> I see the need for the CD approach.  I just checked: System/Administration/Software Sources
[23:15] <dgroos> and under the first pane it shows the first 4 boxes checked (downloadable from the internet) and then the 2 boxes in the section, "Installable from CD-ROM/DVD" are unchecked.  Reversing that checking might work.
[23:17] <GJ> And under the Third-Party Software tab only the Edubuntu cd is checked but it doesn't mention "addon" there at all
[23:19] <dgroos> I think Edubuntu CD and addon are one and the same for Jaunty.
[23:25] <GJ> Apparently. Right now I'm trying to sort through the stuff on the CD to see what might be usable here at our K-8 school.
[23:25] <GJ> I'll just have to make sure any more installs do NOT access the internet.
[23:26] <dgroos> I think you'll get some good opinions if you ask that question on the edubuntu-users list server though it has been asked in various ways a few times so you may want to access the archives.  Best of luck!
[23:27] <dgroos> heading home, have a good evening GJ
[23:30] <GJ> G'bye


[00:01] <tnkhanh> help! my kubuntu 15.04 cannot shut down after installation
[00:06] <vinny> have you tryed from the command line
[00:07] <vinny> IE: sudo shutdown -h now
[00:11] <vinny> if I'm remembering right my 15.04 install is doing this as well,,,,,, and I half to switch to a tty (ctrl+alt+F6) and run it from their
[00:12] <vinny> as once you try to shutdown and it dose not you cant pull up a konsole
[00:14] <vinny> remember 15.04 is not a relece yet ,,,,,,,and their will still be querks/brakeage untill it is
[01:04] <hilocurado> hola muchachos!
[01:09] <vinny> hola :)
[01:22] <kairox87> hello everyone can someone help about how to make partition in kubuntu 14.10 alongside windows 8 on installation please.
[01:46] <vinny> you want to dual boot win8 and kubuntu
[01:56] <kairox87> yes i want to shrink the partition first in kubuntu but this is the probleme i didn't find a way to do it on installation
[01:58] <vinny> you can do it from the live medea ,,,,,, with kdepartition manager in kickoff>system ,,,,,,,,BUT I would use the win8 partition utilaty to do the shrinking
[01:59] <kairox87> yes i would do it from windows 8 but he tel me that there is an error in the parition so i say maybe i should do it from kbuntu
[02:00] <vinny> shrink in windows ,,, run CHKDSK  then think of instaling ,,,,,,,,,+ you have UEFI to think of and the secure boot thing
[02:00] <vinny> if you have an error in windows ,,,,do the CHKDSK thing first
[02:01] <kairox87> yes i have a dell laptop
[02:01] <kairox87> yes i already did the test but i think because i don't have a origine version of windows that's why he don't le me but i'm note sure
[02:03] <vinny> you half to scedule the disk check for a reboot ,,,,it cant check and repare the runing system
[02:03] <kairox87> can you explain how to do it more please
[02:06] <vinny> lets see ,,,,,havent been in windows in a wile ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, hummmmm ,,, my computer>right click C:drive>properties>tools tab > check disk for errors check auto fix ,,,click ok/apply ,,,,it will have a popup to do it on a reboot ,,,click OK and reboot
[02:07] <kairox87> think's that's exactely what i did but i just  start to hate that win 8 when he reboot nothing happen he doesn't repair anything
[02:08] <vinny> ya you should see it hapening ,,,,,,,,,,terminal text and all
[02:10] <kairox87> think's for the help i think that's wher i'am right now i'am some kind of blocked.
[02:10] <vinny> you can allso try booting to safe moad ,,,,,,,F8 wile starting the box ,,,,,select comand prompt and do CHKDSK -h
[02:10] <vinny> or -help
[02:10] <vinny> to see what the repare switch is
[02:11] <vinny> I think it may be /p or /f
[02:11] <vinny> or \p or \f
[02:11] <vinny> cant remember
[02:12] <kairox87> think's i will try it right now i don't have other choice
[02:12] <vinny> K
[02:13] <kairox87> i will leave you think's you very much for the help god bye.
[02:13] <vinny> welcom hope it helps
[02:49] <Finetundra> where would I ask questions about lxqt on kubuntu?
[03:55] <Mneuro> What is the best way to cleanly replace Kubuntu with Ubuntu mate desktop?
[03:56] <Mneuro> I am worried that if i remove kubuntu-desktop after i install mate-desktop that it will be messy
[05:01] <Viperisthebest> I'm trying to install the nvidia drivers with the .run file from the nvidia website but I get the error "The Distributions pre-install script has failed."
[05:03] <Viperisthebest> Why does the pre-install script fail?
[05:09] <Viperisthebest> Anyone here?
[05:10] <qdata> been a very long time since I did the .run thing with the nvidia
[05:11] <qdata> my guess is either it is looking at your distro version and not recognizing it
[05:12] <qdata> such might be the case if you were trying this with the 15.04 beta, wild guess on my part
[05:13] <qdata> the other common reasons are you don't have the build tools and/or the correct kernel headers. But these usually give a better descriptive error
[05:17] <Viperisthebest> on this one website it says to install build-essential, linux-source, and linux-headers-generic before installing the driver
[05:17] <qdata> and the headers need to match your running kernel
[05:18] <Viperisthebest> they will if I install the linux headers i guess
[05:18] <qdata> why not just install the package?
[05:18] <kk> hello
[05:19] <Viperisthebest> What package qdata?
[05:19] <qdata> the nvidia driver
[05:19] <Viperisthebest> I would be but that other stuff needs installed first
[05:20] <qdata> I use Muon Package Manager myself
[05:20] <Viperisthebest> I'm using Kubuntu 14.10 stable
[05:20] <kk> I have installed kubunutu x64 on windows 8 laptop, UEFI mode, but I selected either "/" partition, or bios_grub partiotion(don't remember). I am able to load from usb. How can I add ubuntu to UEFI boot menu
[05:20] <qdata> the driver through the package manager is already built - you don't need the other stuff
[05:21] <Viperisthebest> You mean the muon package manager lets you install the nvidia graphics driver?
[05:21] <qdata> yes
[05:22] <qdata> these are prebuilt, already compiled
[05:22] <qdata> I use 14.10 too
[05:22] <qdata> running nvidia-331
[05:23] <Viperisthebest> I use virtualbox, it has hardware and 3d acceleration now
[05:23] <qdata> so is your 14.10 install the host or is it a guest?
[05:23] <Viperisthebest> a guest
[05:24] <Viperisthebest> guest is the virtual machine right
[05:24] <qdata> then you can't install the nvidia driver because it is not seeing the nvidia hardware, but rather the synthetic artificial vbox one
[05:25] <Viperisthebest> What is the artificial one called?
[05:25] <qdata> on some hardware and cpu combinations and later versions of virtualbox there is PCI passthrough. This would allow for you to "see" the nvidia hardware card directly
[05:27] <qdata> VirtualBox Graphics Adapter
[05:27] <qdata> is how it shows in a WinXP VM
[05:28] <Viperisthebest> How do you activate the PCI passthrough
[05:28] <qdata> the PCI passthrough thing would really be for using a second video card so it could be attached to a guest  while the host OS used the first one
[05:30] <qdata> your cpu and motherboard hardwares have to support certain virtualization extensions for it to work. You would need to research this first.
[05:30] <Viperisthebest> Why couldn't I install the graphics drivers on it? Does virtualization have to be enabled in my bios?
[05:31] <qdata> I tried it once with only one video card in the machine and it hard locked, trashed some of the file system in the process so I never tried it again
[05:31] <qdata> because the entire point of virtualization is to create a "logical" machine
[05:32] <qdata> you should probably spend a little quality time with the virtualbox docs
[05:33] <qdata> what virtualbox "presents" to a guest machine is NOT the hardware on your motherboard
[05:45] <Viperisthebest> I could just install kubuntu on a different harddrive and boot it when I want to play linux games
[05:46] <Viperisthebest> if I did that I wouldn't get the error when using the .run file
[05:47] <qdata> true - but I know next to nothing about gaming
[05:48] <qdata> but if a game is expecting the binary blob drivers for performance reasons running it in a VM guest isn't going to cut it
[05:49] <qdata> and the only reason for messing with the .run is if your game requires a newer version of driver which isn't packaged
[05:49] <qdata> otherwise just install the package
[05:49] <Viperisthebest> from muon right
[05:50] <qdata> or CLI even, apt-get
[05:50] <qdata> whichever package manager you like best, Muon and the like are simply GUI front-ends for apt-get
[05:51] <qdata> do man apt-get and look at what it says
[05:54] <Viperisthebest> If a game is ported to Linux with the Eon wrapper is it the same as running it native?
[05:55] <qdata> that I do not know
[05:57] <Viperisthebest> I'm saving up to build a 4k res gaming pc, Do you think it is worth it?
[05:58] <qdata> probably not quite yet
[05:58] <Viperisthebest> Why do you think so?
[05:58] <qdata> just read about google trying out some 4k streaming video stuff and the jist was it's not quite ready for prime time yet
[05:59] <qdata> but my feeling is we are right around the corner for it real soon now
[05:59] <Viperisthebest> worth it to build one next year then?
[05:59] <qdata> 4k res gaming is going to be expensive hardware
[06:01] <qdata> my own feeling is to wait a year or two, let the really rich shake out the problems, then when companies negin to mass market maybe the teething pains might be somewhat ironed out
[06:02] <qdata> if you are rich and have lots of money I'd say splurge but most can't really afford it
[06:02] <Viperisthebest> If I ever decide to build one I'm getting the Geforce GTX Titan X SLI
[06:03] <qdata> better use of money to wait until 4k becomes a commodity, prices will come down to the 'everyman' range and kinks will be ironed out before spending
[06:03] <qdata> yeah - stuff 4 of those bad boys in a box and it'll heat the room in winter  :-)
[06:04] <qdata> I'm just saying I can't pretend to have that kind of money, I just have to make do with what I can afford but since I'm not a gamer that's relatively easy
[06:05] <Viperisthebest> 4 would be overkill but of course I would get plenty of cooling before doing it
[08:58] <lordievader> Good morning.
[08:58] <MoonUnit`> morning
[08:59] <lordievader> Hey MoonUnit`
[09:04] <MoonUnit`> my wallet is crying this morning, ordered the samsung galaxy s6 edge (64GB green).
[09:52] <yossarianuk> made a bug report about the ubuntu-bug bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apport/+bug/1437803
[09:52] <lordievader> \o/
[09:53] <lordievader> !cookies | yossarianuk
[09:53] <lordievader> !cookies yossarianuk
[09:53] <lordievader> Hmm, how did that thing work.
[09:57] <lordievader> !helpersnack | yossarianuk
[09:57] <lordievader> Ha!
[10:03] <yossarianuk> oddly cookie monster is on tv right now.....
[10:03] <lordievader> Hihi
[12:14] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[12:14] <MoonUnit`> hi
[12:15] <BluesKaj> hi MoonUnit`
[12:24] <lordievader> o/
[12:26] <Graf_Westerholt> lordievader
[12:28] <lordievader> Hey Graf_Westerholt
[15:44] <patarok> hi!
[15:46] <patarok> Please tell me how do i connect two external displays to my HP Pavillion g series notebook which is running Kubuntu Utopic. I have both external displays connected. One is an old low resolution TFT with a VGA(D-Sub) connector and the other one is a merely new samsung TV with HDMI in.
[15:47] <patarok> xrandr shows both of the external displays connected and the values for each.
[15:50] <patarok> in Kubuntus(respectively KDE 4's) System Preferences in the section Display configuration i can see all 3 Displays. But when i check the box on the HDMI connected Samsung Flatscreen TV  the HDMI Display in "Display Configuration" gets greyed out.
[15:50] <patarok> VGA and internal both seem to work properly.
[15:51] <patarok> HDMI connected TV worked flawlessly until one connects the low-res VGA Display
[15:51] <patarok> any ideas?
[15:52] <patarok> the only idea i had until now was to reboot.
[15:53] <patarok> any display pros in here?
[16:08] <lordievader> patarok: Do I read it correctly that you cannot have all of them enabled at the same time?
[16:40] <travnewmatic> need help, attemtpting to multiboot on one hd windows 7, utopic, and vivid, with the linux distros each having their own / partition, but sharing /boot and /home and swap
[16:40] <travnewmatic> os-prober does indeed see windows and vivid from utopic
[16:41] <travnewmatic> but when i do grub-install /dev/sda the menu generated still only includes Windows and Utopic
[16:45] <travnewmatic> http://pastebin.com/ARB5G4H1
[16:46] <Felishia> chrome crashes KDE :<
[16:46] <Felishia> but works fine on fluxbox
[16:46] <Felishia> it's like the whole lightdm that crashes
[16:46] <Felishia> I tried restarting it but it doesn't even work
[16:46] <Felishia> I have to restart my pc
[17:53] <travnewmatic> neeed gruuuub haaaaalpz
[17:53] <travnewmatic> http://pastebin.com/NaU3NwPW
[17:54] <travnewmatic> its not putting a vivid entry in grub.cfg, despite it showing up in the output of those commands
[17:55] <Unit193> travnewmatic: No need to crosspost.
[17:55] <lordievader> travnewmatic: Could you post your grub config? (/boot/grub/grub.cfg)
[17:55] <travnewmatic> i'd be happy to
[17:56] <lordievader> Ah. yes. Lets continue in #ubuntu+1
[17:56] <Unit193> lordievader: Since you are also in #ubuntu+1, you may want to join in there?
[17:56] <Unit193> Bah.
[18:01] <vinny> travnewmatic - you dont half to run os-prober as a separet command with update-grub ,,,,,,,,,,,,,unless you have it turned off in /etc/default/grub
[18:07] <travnewmatic> vinny, that makes sense, also this discussion has continued in #ubuntu+1 if you are interested :)
[18:16] <GhostOfLegends> Hello
[18:17] <GhostOfLegends> I am new to the Ubuntu OS. What resources are there available I can use to learn more about Ubuntu features and commands
[18:23] <Nushif> Heya quicklike and specific question ... I am trying to disable a 3g transceiver on a netbook via software, but can't find where to do that.
[18:24] <Nushif> And the FAQ doesn't really talk about disabling specific system components. 8(
[22:44] <Guest9619> hey
[22:50] <jedrek_> hi! I've just installed Kubuntu and I can't login from login screen - after typing password and clicking enter it turns black and then comes back to original state, can you help me?
[22:51] <jedrek_> switching to console, logging in there and starting x server works
[23:24] <jedrek_> anybody here?
[23:25] <ahoneybun> yep
[23:27] <jedrek_> I'll paste my previous messages
[23:27] <jedrek_> I've just installed Kubuntu and I can't login from login screen - after typing password and clicking enter it turns black and then comes back to original state, can you help me?
[23:27] <jedrek_> switching to console, logging in there and starting x server works
[23:29] <jedrek_> any ideas?