[03:16] <lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/Ubuntu-Touch-RTM-Officially-Released-Screenshot-Tour-459170.shtml
[03:16] <lotuspsychje> here some news
[03:56] <lotuspsychje> can i update devel version to rtm?
[03:57] <lotuspsychje> or will devel version get all stability as rtm?
[04:01] <duflu> lotuspsychje: If you have the option then devel will continue to get more enhancements for longer (as part of the Ubuntu 14.10 cycle)
[04:02] <lotuspsychje> duflu: i have the devel version on n7 right now
[04:02] <lotuspsychje> duflu: would i stay on devel or change to rtm?
[04:03] <duflu> lotuspsychje: We're seeing visible improvements regularly so if you want to continue with that then stay on devel. "rtm" will of course not change as much. That doesn't mean it's any more stable, but could become so.
[04:04] <lotuspsychje> duflu: well im reading rtm version has been improved on touch interaction
[04:04] <lotuspsychje> my devel version still little laggy
[04:05] <lotuspsychje> so i was curious about if rtm updates also come fro devel verion?
[04:05] <lotuspsychje> and will rtm have its own updates seperate?
[04:06] <duflu> lotuspsychje: For minimum lag, stay on devel. Otherwise you won't get any of the latest improvements.
[04:06] <lotuspsychje> okay tnx for info
[04:06] <lotuspsychje> you guys doing a great job!
[04:06] <duflu> lotuspsychje: But if stability concerns you, then certainly choose a more stable channel
[04:06] <duflu> lotuspsychje: Which N7? flo? (2013 model)
[04:07] <lotuspsychje> i wanna get updates
[04:07] <lotuspsychje> yes nexus7 wifi 2013
[04:07] <duflu> lotuspsychje: OK, that should still get the latest code. The original N7 model will not.
[04:08] <lotuspsychje> duflu: you know what happens with the new 'set phone back to factory settings'?
[04:08] <lotuspsychje> will that reset ubuntu devel to original state?
[04:08] <duflu> lotuspsychje: Sorry, I'm not familiar with that option
[04:08] <lotuspsychje> ok
[04:09] <lotuspsychje> maybe ill try to clean out oldest stuff
[04:25] <lotuspsychje> duflu: just reset my nexus to ubuntu devel default
[04:25] <lotuspsychje> looking just nice
[06:12] <shuduo> when i try to flash rtm/14.09 channel image to my flo, i get the error 'Failed to locate latest image information'. can anyone cofirm if it's expected? thx!
[07:21] <dholbach> good morning
[08:48] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday, and happy Elephant Appreciation Day! :-D
[08:55] <mardy> cjwatson, mvo: when a click package gets removed, does ~/.config/<package>/ get removed?
[08:56] <mardy> oops, I meant s/config/cache/, of course
[08:57] <mvo> mardy: there is a open bug about this, hold on a sec
[08:58] <mvo> mardy: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/click/+bug/1358294
[08:59] <mvo> mardy: and lp:~mvo/click/lp1358294-config-removal that implements it
[09:00] <mvo> mardy: why do you ask?
[09:01] <mardy> mvo: the webapp-container is currently storing its data (such as browser cookies) under ~/.local/share/, which IMHO is wrong
[09:02] <mardy> mvo: I think it should use ~/.cache for cookies and temporary data
[09:02] <mvo> mardy: right
[09:02] <mardy> mvo: if click clears ~/.cache when a webapp gets uninstalled, that would one very strong reason to use this dir
[09:03] <mardy> oSoMoN: hi! Do you agree? (from ~10 lines above ^)
[09:06] <mardy> mvo: anyway, I understand that there is consensus at least to delete ~/.cache and ~/.config, so maybe you should land your branch? :-)
[09:07] <oSoMoN> mardy, that sounds reasonable to me
[09:08] <mardy> oSoMoN: do you what me to change how "dataLocation" is exported by the Ubuntu.Web module, or only change it in webapp-container?
[09:11] <oSoMoN> mardy: we probably need to export an additional "cacheLocation" property, as dataLocation is used in other places
[09:12] <mardy> oSoMoN: OK, so I'll add cacheLocation in Ubuntu.Web, and then use that in the webapp container
[09:13] <oSoMoN> mardy, sounds like a plan, thanks!
[09:18] <mardy> oSoMoN: or actually, I should probably change the dataPath in UbuntuWebContext to be cacheLocation, I guess
[09:20] <oSoMoN> mardy, probably, indeed
[09:23] <chrisc> on a nexus 4 top in cyanogenmod shows 4 cpus but with ubuntu it only shows 2 cpus
[09:23] <chrisc> actually it only shows 1
[09:24] <chrisc> cat /proc/cpuinfo # shows 4 on both
[09:43] <vitimiti> hi
[10:11] <bufan1228> hi
[10:14] <bufan1228> hello
[10:33] <chrisc> oh, that's off, top sometimes shows 1 cpu, sometimes 2 cpus and soemtimes 4, i guess this is a feature not a bug :-)
[10:33] <chrisc> s/off/odd/
[11:39] <dbarth_> ogra_: hey; we are missing a package in the seed
[11:39] <dbarth_> ogra_: signon-apparmor-extension
[11:39] <dbarth_> i guess it takes an MR against ubuntu-seeds, right?
[11:51] <ogra_> dbarth_, yup
[11:58] <cwayne> jdstrand: i guess starting on click-system-hooks still isn't early enough :(
[12:04] <dbarth_> ogra_: ok
[12:04] <nerochiaro> mzanetti: do you remember how setting metadata when taking a picture was done ?
[12:05] <mzanetti> nerochiaro: uh... no... I don't think I've ever done that
[12:24] <jdstrand> cwayne: what are you talking about?
[12:24] <cwayne> jdstrand: cache's still aren't being properly copied over from /custom on first boot
[12:27] <jdstrand> cwayne: that seem odd. did krillin get the new kernel?
[12:27] <cwayne> jdstrand: not that i know of
[12:27] <nerochiaro> bfiller:  do you know who's responsible for the android camera code ? no matter how I set the correct datetime metadata in qtubuntu before capture, it always gets overwritten with the UTC version when capturing
[12:28] <jdstrand> cwayne: is this on the rtm branch or something else?
[12:28] <nerochiaro> bfiller: so i need to ask someone who is more familiar with that code to see what i am missing
[12:29] <cwayne> jdstrand: rtm
[12:29] <jdstrand> cwayne: this is an upgrade or a first boot?
[12:30] <cwayne> jdstrand: first boot
[12:32] <jdstrand> cwayne: and you're sure the .features files, apparmor and appparmor-easyprof-ubuntu all match?
[12:32] <dholbach> dbarth_, alex-abreu: can you help shuduo? in #ubuntu-app-devel he just asked the following:
 dholbach: hi, i have a web app has published to app store and be updated with using webapp-container instead of webbrowser-app as your comment. but i just found the server side detects the webapp-container is a mobile version browser but it serves desktop version only. do you have any advice how to deal with it? I can't see how to set UA to webapp-container. thanks
[12:32] <jdstrand> file*
[12:32] <cwayne> jdstrand: as far as I know yes
[12:33] <dbarth_> dholbach: joining
[12:34] <jdstrand> cwayne: can copy your current one aside as a backup and regenerate a new one, verifying apparmor is 2.8.96~2652-0ubuntu3, apparmor-easyprof-ubuntu is 1.2.22 and the features file matches?
[12:40] <jdstrand> cwayne: so after verifying that, I think I may know what is happening
[12:43] <nerochiaro> zbenjamin_: if you check out gallery-app from trunk, can you build it out of the box in qtcreator now ?
[12:43] <nerochiaro> zbenjamin_: i'm trying but it seems to fail on the po files
[12:43] <cwayne> jdstrand: verifying it locally then need to do the same on jenkins
[12:43] <cwayne> maybe the jenkins utopic pbuilder is out of date
[12:44] <cwayne> jdstrand: how do i tell that the features file matches?
[12:46] <jdstrand> cwayne: look at /etc/apparmor.d/cache/.features on a booted system
[12:47] <cwayne> jdstrand: ah ok, so those match
[12:47] <jdstrand> cwayne: so everything matches?
[12:47] <cwayne> jdstrand: still running a local build to be sure, then need to run on jenkins
[12:48] <cwayne> but the features file at least does
[12:48] <cwayne> jdstrand: i've got 2.8.96~2652-0ubuntu4 of apparmor installed
[12:48] <cwayne> and 1.2.25 of apparmor-easyprof-ubuntu
[12:49] <jdstrand> yeah, that's wrong
[12:49] <jdstrand> the rtm branch as different versions
[12:49] <nerochiaro> zbenjamin_: nevermind, for some reason intltool wasn't installed in the chroot and cmake wasn't telling me about it
[12:50] <cwayne> jdstrand: ah, shit... im doing all this from within a pbuilder, i wonder if we have rtm pbuilders...
[12:53] <mpt> System Settings is taking forever (about two minutes so far) to launch. Is there any way I can collect useful data to report a bug?
[12:53] <Wellark> MacSlow: now that saviq is on holiday
[12:54] <MacSlow> Wellark, hey there
[12:54] <Wellark> we need to schedule the sessions for Unity Dialogs and Unity Notifications
[12:54] <Wellark> will I do it or do you want the honor?
[12:54] <Wellark> these are the "burn snap decisions with fire"
[13:01] <cwayne> jdstrand: theoretically I could just force a pbuilder to install those versions by giving it a sources.list i guess, right?
[13:08] <bfiller> nerochiaro: rsalveti or jhodapp would be best to ask
[13:09] <bfiller> nerochiaro: maybe that is intentional behavior to always store the timestamp in UTC
[13:09] <bfiller> nerochiaro: but seems like it's UTC + 2 which would not be correct
[13:10] <bfiller> nerochiaro: maybe it's the gallery-app that needs to change to convert the UTC timestamp to local time before adding to the event timeline
[13:12] <nerochiaro> bfiller: i'm on UTC+2 and the timestamps recorded by camera are two hours behind, so that seems correct from my perspective
[13:13] <bfiller> nerochiaro: try taking a photo on Android or another camera and see if it stores with UTC timestamp
[13:14] <nerochiaro> bfiller: good idea
[13:14] <bfiller> nerochiaro: it probably does make sense, otherwises apps would need to know what TZ the encoding was done in and convert to local time
[13:15] <nerochiaro> bfiller: which would not be possible since the EXIF standard doesn't have any official provision for storing timezone tags or timezones in the timestamps
[13:16] <bfiller> nerochiaro: right ok
[13:16] <bfiller> nerochiaro: so instead lets fix gallery to convert timestamp from UTC to local time
[13:18] <nerochiaro> bfiller: but i just tried and android saves the picture with the local time in the metadata
[13:18] <bfiller> nerochiaro: hmnn
[13:19] <bfiller> nerochiaro: is there any indication in the metadata what tz it used?
[13:20] <nerochiaro> bfiller: no, because as i said EXIF have no notion of time zones, it's not part of the standard tags.
[13:20] <bfiller> nerochiaro: no custom tags used?
[13:21] <nerochiaro> bfiller: a non standard tag for storing timezone information exists, but we are not using it, and it is now widely used in general
[13:22] <nerochiaro> er, not widely used
[13:23] <mpt> …30 minutes later, System Settings is still trying to launch
[13:23] <nerochiaro> bfiller: i guess if I manage to write that I might as well fix the date to be in local time
[13:24] <bfiller> nerochiaro: I would say lets leave the TZ in UTC and in gallery-app do the conversion. It will at least be correct for pictures taken with our camera
[13:24] <bfiller> nerochiaro: don't want to get into non-standard tags, etc
[13:25] <jdstrand> cwayne: I'm not a pbuilder expert (I use sbuild). you should be able adjust it fro ubuntu-rtm. there may be a facility to allow installing applications in it. you may want to talk to dholbach-- I think he is quite adept with pbuilder
[13:25] <nerochiaro> bfiller: what about fixing it to be in local time, so we don't have to do any conversion and all apps can use it, and if I can't figure out how to do that by asking fix gallery ?
[13:25] <cwayne> jdstrand: i think i've got it (at least locally) I was able to force installation of the correct versions of apparmor/apparmor-easyprof-ubuntu
[13:26] <cwayne> jdstrand: so im going to build it on jenkins, then try an install from there and keep my fingers crossed :)
[13:26] <dholbach> jdstrand, thanks for your confidence, but in the last 4 years I haven't had to use anything but pbuilder-dist {create,update,build} :)
[13:27] <matv1> Regarding adb access to my device: Am I correct in understanding that adb push pull is now restricted to /home?
[13:27] <bfiller> nerochiaro: let me check what iphone does
[13:27] <jdstrand> heh
[13:30] <bfiller> nerochiaro: iphone does the same thing, stores the local time. So yes I guess that is the correct thing to do then to fix it such that local tz being stored in the metadata
[13:33] <nerochiaro> bfiller: it won't be storing the tz in the metadata. it will write in the metadata the local time without any tz information
[13:33] <nerochiaro> bfiller: which is what android and i suppose ios do as well
[13:33] <bfiller> nerochiaro: yes
[13:33] <bfiller> nerochiaro: lets do that
[13:34] <nerochiaro> bfiller: ok
[13:36] <nerochiaro> rsalveti: jhodapp: does any of you know how to tell android what to put in the DateTimeOriginal and DateTimeDigitized EXIF tags when taking a picture ? I'm trying using AalMetaDataWriterControl::writeMetadata in qtubuntu-camera but it doesn't seem to respect what I set there
[13:39] <jhodapp> nerochiaro, let me check the other side of that function call to see what it's doing
[13:44] <nerochiaro> jhodapp: there is no other side, as far as i can see it just stores the metadata in an hash
[13:45] <cwayne> blargh,  apparmor : Depends: libapparmor-perl but it is not going to be installed
[13:45] <nerochiaro> jhodapp: and i was assuming that android would pick that up when asked to capture
[13:45] <jhodapp> nerochiaro, you looked at the Android side?
[13:45] <nerochiaro> jhodapp: no, i've never looked into hybris. the function i thought would pick up the metadata is android_camera_take_snapshot
[13:46] <jhodapp> nerochiaro, that's what I mean by the other side, let's look to see what Android does with the metadata
[13:46] <Wellark> MacSlow: so, how do you want to do this?
[13:46] <Wellark> I have like 20 sessions to file
[13:47] <MacSlow> Wellark, ?
[13:47] <Wellark> I don't mind filing the notifications and dialogs as well
[13:47] <MacSlow> Wellark, some context please :)
[13:47] <Wellark> MacSlow: it's in the backlog! :)
[13:47] <Wellark> MacSlow: from my "ping"
[13:48] <Wellark> MacSlow: you replied 15:54 < MacSlow> Wellark, hey there
[13:48] <MacSlow> Wellark, saw it... bugs got the better of me again in between :)
[13:49] <MacSlow> Wellark, I can only do a "why snap-decisions must burn in hell"
[13:49] <Wellark> MacSlow: I can enter them both
[13:50] <Wellark> MacSlow: if that's easier
[13:50] <Wellark> so it's a session of Unity Dialogs and Notifications
[13:50] <Wellark> where we look into how we implement proper dialogs and purify notifications
[13:50] <MacSlow> Wellark, I'll hardly find time to work up a proposal for "unity dialogs" considering all the stuff I still have to fix/land
[13:50] <Wellark> MacSlow: np. we have it covered
[13:51] <Wellark> and the plan is to discuss them in washington
[13:51] <Wellark> so no preparations needed
[13:51] <MacSlow> Wellark, if you've a session in mind for that I gladly help out (and/or do the talk with you)
[13:51] <Wellark> MacSlow: ok. great!
[13:51] <MacSlow> Wellark, just put it anywhere and I'll be there
[13:52] <Wellark> MacSlow: ack. :)
[13:52] <MacSlow> Wellark, so far I'm only there to work :)
[13:52] <Wellark> MacSlow: lucky you
[13:53] <Wellark> MacSlow: I'm pretty sure I'm just leading a meeting after meeting
[13:53] <Wellark> as I said I have a list of around 20 right now
[13:53] <Wellark> to fix all the "lessons learned" from the past two years
[13:53] <Wellark> snap decisions being just one of them :)
[13:53] <Wellark> or let's say
[13:54] <Wellark> "to fix all the lessons learned that have made my life miserable" :)
[13:54] <MacSlow> Wellark, add "and MacSlow's" :)
[13:57] <jdstrand> cwayne: there was a perl transition after we branched from rtm
[13:57] <jdstrand> ie, utopic has perl 5.20, rtm does not
[13:57] <ogra_> yay
[13:57] <ogra_> consistency
[13:59] <jhodapp> nerochiaro, I don't see the function AalMetaDataWriterControl::writeMetadata in the qtubuntu-camera source
[14:00] <jhodapp> nerochiaro, do you mean setMetaData()?
[14:01] <cwayne> jdstrand: ah, just curious why it worked on my local pbuilder, but not on jenkins.. trying now to explicitly install libapparmor-perl, will see how that goes...
[14:03] <nerochiaro> jhodapp: yes, sorry, setMetadata
[14:04] <jhodapp> nerochiaro, yeah, that only sets orientation for our implementation if you look at the source
[14:04] <jhodapp> nerochiaro, you'd need to implement setting timestamp if you want it to be changeable
[14:07] <nerochiaro> jhodapp: well, ok, in the metadata class i can add a member like there is for the orientation, but who will pick that up ?
[14:07] <nerochiaro> jhodapp: hybris ?
[14:07] <jhodapp> nerochiaro, what do you want to do exactly with the timestamp?
[14:08] <nerochiaro> jhodapp: setting them to the current local time. android saves UTC time by default
[14:08] <jhodapp> nerochiaro, what is the timestamp used for though?
[14:10] <nerochiaro> jhodapp: ordering the pictures in gallery
[14:10] <jhodapp> nerochiaro, so this is for the EXIF data?
[14:10] <nerochiaro> jhodapp: yes
[14:11] <jhodapp> nerochiaro, ok, I would guess that there is a way to set this on the Android side...I'm not sure if we have the hybris code in place or not but my guess is we do have it by using the same code as setting the orientation
[14:12] <jhodapp> nerochiaro, I think you'd just need to find the right key name for the timestamp metadata
[14:12] <nerochiaro> jhodapp: ok. what is the branch of hybris that i should use ? i tried lp:libhybris but it does not seem to be the same as what is used by qtubuntu-camera trunk
[14:17] <jhodapp> nerochiaro, it's in our git repo...let me get you a link
[14:18] <jhodapp> nerochiaro, take a look online here: https://code-review.phablet.ubuntu.com/gitweb?p=aosp/ubuntu/libhybris.git;a=tree;h=refs/heads/master;hb=refs/heads/master
[14:18] <nerochiaro> jhodapp: can i build that code on the device ?
[14:18] <jhodapp> nerochiaro, you can build the code that's in the hybris directory on the device
[14:19] <jhodapp> nerochiaro, the other code is part of the Android tree, so it must be built locally
[14:19] <jhodapp> nerochiaro, you can get the entire tree by doing "phablet-dev-bootstrap"
[14:21] <nerochiaro> jhodapp: ok, i'm giving it a shot in a few minutes. i'll poke you if i have problems
[14:21] <jhodapp> nerochiaro, ok awesome, good luck
[14:21] <nerochiaro> jhodapp: i assume once i rebuild the lib i can just overwrite the system one with it and it will work
[14:22] <jhodapp> nerochiaro, yes indeed
[14:35] <bfiller> jamesh_:  thanks for the comments on https://bugs.launchpad.net/gallery-app/+bug/1369652
[14:35] <bfiller> jamesh_: do you know who is working on integrating the My Photos scope with the mediascanner?
[14:36] <cwayne> bfiller: it's kyleN
[14:36] <jamesh_> bfiller: The scope already uses mediascanner: it just isn't being maintained as part of the same source tree as the other mediascanner-using scopes
[14:37] <bfiller> cwayne: thansk
[14:37] <kyleN> bfiller, I wrote it and it is an open question as to whether it will be integrated with mediascanner
[14:38] <bfiller> kyleN: trying to figure out what is needed to make it use photo:// urls that we adding into the gallery-app
[14:38] <bfiller> kyleN: seems like it should work like all the other scopes
[14:38] <bfiller> I mean in terms of integrating with mediascanner
[14:39] <kyleN> yes, it should use the same url (photos://... or whatever) for certain. currently is uses a file:// url
[14:39] <cwayne> kyleN: huh? since when is that an open question
[14:39] <jamesh> bfiller: It's really just the scope that needs to make sure its action button uses a photo:// URI
[14:39] <kyleN> photo:// that is
[14:40] <jamesh> bfiller: mediascanner itself only deals with files and doesn't know about these URI schemes
[14:40] <bfiller> jamesh: got it, ok
[14:40] <bfiller> jamesh: so I should probably remove that bug task for mediascanner then?
[15:02] <nik90> charles: ping
[15:04] <charles> nik90: pong
[15:04] <charles> :)
[15:07] <jdstrand> pete-woods: hey, so usermetrics hasn't been working for a while. I am guessing it is because the /var/lib/usermetrics directory and its contents are owned by 'messagebus'
[15:07] <jdstrand> pete-woods: this may be related to bug #1363129
[15:08] <jdstrand> pete-woods: in that rsyslog stopped working around the same time because /var/log/syslog was owned by usermetrics
[15:11] <jdstrand> ogra_: fyi, it's possible bug 1359022 and bug 1372502 are related
[15:12] <jdstrand> ogra_: meh
[15:12] <ogra_> o is so close to p :)
[15:12] <jdstrand> ogra_: sorry, it is possible bug 1363129 and bug 1372502 are related
[15:12] <ogra_> jdstrand, thats a duplicate
[15:13] <jdstrand> ogra_: I am not being clear
[15:13] <ogra_> but i know what you want to tell :)
[15:13] <ogra_> the UIDs change underneath
[15:13] <jdstrand> ogra_: the rsyslog bug is because /var/log/syslog was owned by usermetrics. usermetrics not working is because /var/lib/usermetrics/* is owned by messagebus
[15:13] <jdstrand> yes
[15:18] <nik90> ogra_: in http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/touch-image-stats/rtm/ I notice that 52 is the latest rtm image. But on mako, I have image 49 from rtm/devel-proposed which seems to be the latest. What's going on here?
[15:19]  * nik90 hopes there is a different image number based on the device it is produced for
[15:19] <nik90> isn't*
[15:24] <vitimiti> hi
[15:26] <ogra_> jdstrand, sorry, took me a while to find it, duplicated properly now
[15:26] <ogra_> nik90, stop judging images by the image number :) they are no expected to be in sync anymore
[15:27] <nik90> ogra_: how do I then find the image changelogs at your website if not with the image number?
[15:27] <nik90> ogra_: I am trying to find where a regression started appearing (alarms not working anymore)
[15:27] <ogra_> nik90, http://ci.ubuntu.com/smokeng/utopic/touch ... take a look at the "build number" column
[15:28] <nik90> ok
[15:28] <ogra_> you see three bits separated by columnns ...
[15:28] <ogra_> the second is the rootfs
[15:28] <ogra_> the changelogs for non rtm are all based on mako builds
[15:28] <ogra_> the rtm ones are based on krillin builds
[15:29] <nik90> hmm the link is not opening for me
[15:29] <ogra_> the only safe way to compare two images is by the rootfs
[15:29] <nik90> ok
[15:29] <ogra_> well, a version string looks like:  48:20140921:20140919.1
[15:30] <ogra_> this would be rtm image 48 for mako ... it uses the 20140921 rootfs from http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-touch/ubuntu-rtm/14.09/daily-preinstalled/ and the device tarball from the 20140919.1 build
[15:31] <ogra_> nik90, and you are right, looks like the testing dashboard is down ...
[15:40] <pete-woods> jdstrand: that sounds plausible, I hadn't realised that libusermetrics had stopped working, though
[15:42] <ogra_> pete-woods, bug 1332538
[15:43] <ogra_> stgraber, whats the status on that one btw ? we need it before thu.
[15:44] <stgraber> ogra_: I'm working fulltime on non-phone stuff
[15:44] <stgraber> slangasek: ^
[15:44] <ogra_> hmm, thats pretty bad
[15:44] <ogra_> it seems to bite us more often recently
[15:46] <stgraber> let's see if I can come up with a prototype in a couple of minutes
[15:46] <jdstrand> note, this isn't a new bug for me, just newly reported. I've lived with it for a little while
[15:46] <slangasek> stgraber: this is a pretty important fix; if you can take care of it quickly that would be appreciated
[15:47] <stgraber> slangasek: I'm not very familiar with live-build, so trying to figure out how to get a hook executed right after debootstrap and before anything else
[15:48] <slangasek> hmm, I can't say I know either
[15:49] <ogra_> stgraber, why do you have to do it at that early point ?
[15:49] <ogra_> touch has hoos for "after build, before tarball is produced"
[15:49] <ogra_> shipped in livecd-rootfs
[15:49] <ogra_> *hooks as well
[15:50] <ogra_> wouldnt that be sufficient ?
[15:50] <stgraber> no
[15:50] <stgraber> the idea is to create all the users and groups in the right order before the packages are installed
[15:51] <stgraber> that way we guarantee their uids/gids. We also compare that list of initial users and groups with what we have at the end, if that differs, we fail the build.
[15:54] <tedg> nik90, Looks like clock icon broke: https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/bf60f656677183c4c5f4b017d94a3cb690c0ea7b
[15:55] <nik90> tedg: I do not have permission to see the data
[15:56] <tedg> nik90, Hmm, okay. It's just a UAL error saying it can't find the icon in the click package.
[15:56] <tedg> nik90, clock 3.1.109
[15:56] <nik90> tedg: hmm I did see that warning in the click-reviewers tool, but when I installed the click the icon appeared fine
[16:00] <tedg> mpt, I've got a couple "bad url" errors because the app is not installed that they're trying to switch to.
[16:01] <tedg> mpt, I think as we discuss dialogs for url-dispatcher on conflicts, perhaps we should add one to install apps as well. Or go to the click scope with a search.
[16:01] <jgdx> kenvandine, I now have a precommit hook that runs the pep/flake test. Sorry that it took me months to get here. :p
[16:04] <kenvandine> jgdx, no worries
[16:05] <cwayne> jdstrand: so I made sure to have the right versions of apparmor and apparmor-easyprof-ubuntu, but it still seems to be compiling on first boot :/
[16:06] <popey> tedg: mzanetti do you know if we have a bug filed / tracked for the fact that if an app (for example browser) is suspended by lifecycle then you can't restart it from another app (for example clicking a link in an ebook reader).
[16:07] <jdstrand> cwayne: when the system boots, does the custom tarball rely on the click system hooks to be run or are they already in place?
[16:07] <tedg> popey, That should work, url-dispatcher should resume it.
[16:07] <mzanetti> popey: not that I'm aware of
[16:07]  * mzanetti tries
[16:07] <tedg> popey, Well, it sends a focus event to unity8
[16:08] <mzanetti> popey: have an easy test case handy?
[16:08] <cwayne> jdstrand: well when it first boots, the caches are in /custom, and then we copy them to /var/cache/apparmor before system hooks are run
[16:08] <popey> its easy to reproduce, just open browser, then open something else with links in it
[16:08] <cwayne> jdstrand: do we need system hooks for anything else?
[16:08] <popey> twitter, beru (ebook with urls in it)
[16:08]  * mzanetti generates a qr code with url in it
[16:08] <popey> then scroll through twitter for a while, wait for browser to get killed/suspended, and then click a link in twitter
[16:09] <tedg> Hmm, if that's broken I'm going to have a hard time with this URL Dispatcher landing, that's part of it's acceptance tests :-)
[16:09] <popey> oh, also, is there a bug for the low-quality screenshots you see when an app is suspended?
[16:09] <popey> hah
[16:09] <popey> soz
[16:09] <jjohansen> cwayne: are you making sure to preserve the time stamps, otherwise copy order is important
[16:09] <mzanetti> ah... hmm.. then its not suspended, but stopped
[16:09] <mzanetti> tedg: ^
[16:09] <greyback_> popey: I don't think so. It was a deliberate choice, but design may disapprove
[16:09] <jjohansen> the compiled profile must be newer than the profile and all its includes
[16:09] <popey> greyback_: looks pretty awful, blurry.
[16:10] <jdstrand> cwayne: the apparmor hook will look at the symlinks in /var/lib/apparmor/clicks. it will then see if there is a profile for it in /var/lib/apparmor/profiles. if not, it will generate one
[16:10] <cwayne> jdstrand: and will then recompile because the profile is newer?
[16:10] <greyback_> popey: we did it to save memory, and see if anyone really noticed. You're the first to comment ;)
[16:10] <popey> ʘ‿ಠ
[16:11] <jdstrand> cwayne: that is probably what is happening-- the click apparmor hook is generating the profile in /var/lib/apparmor/profiles new, and then apparmor_parser is called and sees the timestamp is newer
[16:11] <jdstrand> that was a detail I forgot to consider initially
[16:12] <jdstrand> so, you'll need to ship both the cache file and the profile
[16:13] <jdstrand> cwayne: does that make sense?
[16:14] <jdstrand> let me check something
[16:14] <stgraber> ogra_: what are those system and radio users and why are they regular users with a login shell and a >1000 uid/gid?
[16:15] <ogra_> stgraber, they can be /bin/false (i never noticed they have a shell)
[16:15] <cwayne> jdstrand: yeah, so i'd have to alter the upstart job to cp -nu the profiles into /var/lib/apparmor/profiles
[16:15] <ogra_> stgraber, they are driver or daemon users that the binary bits need to exist to work right
[16:15] <jdstrand> cwayne: actually, that is likely not enough. there are 3 pieces
[16:16] <jdstrand> cwayne: there is the click security manifest in /var/lib/apparmor/clicks, there is the profile in /var/lib/apparmor/profiles and there is the cache file in /var/cache/apparmor
[16:16] <stgraber> ogra_: ok, and do the uid/gid of those matter? because based on what you're seeing, they really ought to be system users with a < 1000 uid/gid
[16:16] <jdstrand> if the click manifest is newer than the apparmor profile, the profile will be regenerated and so will the cache
[16:17] <jdstrand> if the profile is newer thatn the manifest, but also newer than the cache, the cache will be recompiled
[16:18] <cwayne> jdstrand: so i should copy manifest, then profile, then cache?
[16:18] <mzanetti> popey: yeah... confirmed... doesn't work when the browser is stopped
[16:18] <jdstrand> so, you need to have the mtime of the file in /var/lib/apparmor/clicks < the mtime of the file in /var/lib/apparmor/profiles < the mtime of the file in /var/cache/apparmor
[16:18] <ogra_> stgraber, yes, UID and GID are as essential as the name
[16:19] <cwayne> jdstrand: man, this has ended up being a lot more complicated than just copying one dir from /custom :)
[16:19] <jdstrand> cwayne: yes that is the idea, however, you need to make sure the security manifest file gets handled correctly-- it is a symlink
[16:19] <ogra_> stgraber, UID and GID are hardcoded in android all over the place (there is a header file that acts as /etc/password)
[16:20] <ogra_> so we need to use the right numbers and names
[16:22] <jdstrand> cwayne: I think you should verify with cjwatson the best method for dealing with the symlinks in /var/lib/apparmor/clicks. I think the click database is actually the filesystem contents, so as long as they end up as symlinks, it should be ok
[16:23] <cwayne> cjwatson: ^
[16:23] <jdstrand> cjwatson: (you can read backscroll approximately to 6 minutes back for context
[16:24] <jdstrand> cwayne: note: for the file in /va/lib/apparmor/clicks, I am talking about the mtime of the symlink itself, not the mtime of the file it points at
[16:29] <popey> mzanetti: yay, need a bug filing?
[16:29] <mzanetti> popey: please
[16:30] <popey> unity8?
[16:30] <mzanetti> popey: qtmir I think
[16:30] <popey> k
[16:30] <mzanetti> popey: note: suspended == sleeping (ctrl+z)
[16:30] <mzanetti> popey: stopped == process ended, just fake screenshot in spread
[16:30] <popey> ok
[16:31] <popey> mzanetti: lolz, already filed it 2 weeks ago ㋛ https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qtmir/+bug/1368101
[16:33] <mzanetti> popey: interesting...
[16:33] <mzanetti> I really thought we wouldn't do so bad with at least looking at bugs
[16:33] <mzanetti> popey: sorry for that
[16:34] <popey> no problem
[16:50] <stgraber> ogra_: so we want http://paste.ubuntu.com/8404456/ right after debootstrap and http://paste.ubuntu.com/8404457/ at the end of the build
[16:50] <stgraber> that obviously expects proper behaviour from all the preinst/postinst scripts which is that they shouldn't fail if their user and group already exists
[16:52] <stgraber> that should ensure ordering and successfuly detect any uid/gid change coming from either the base system or from added/changed packages
[16:53] <ogra_> stgraber, what is lxc-andsmasq (and why do we have it on the phone) :)
[16:54] <ogra_> uuh
[16:54] <ogra_> and why do we have www-daat
[16:54] <ogra_> *data
[16:55] <ogra_> stgraber, the code looks fine to me
[16:56] <robotfuel> jgdx: ping https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-system-settings/+bug/1371810 who can I ask to triage this bug?
[16:57] <jgdx> robotfuel, gatox would be my best guess
[16:59] <pmcgowan> jgdx, robotfuel I can look at that, kenvandine just rewrote a pile of relevant code
[16:59] <robotfuel> pmcgowan: thanks
[17:01] <pmcgowan> robotfuel, does that happen with other multi-level panels do you know? and do you have to visit the OS page first?
[17:01] <pmcgowan> there was a similar bug triggere by OS page a while ago that seemed to disappear
[17:01] <robotfuel> pmcgowan: yes I have to visit the os page first.
[17:03] <pmcgowan> robotfuel, ok so that bug is not gone completely, it used to happen 100% of the time
[17:04] <robotfuel> pmcgowan: it doesn't happen every time, it's racy. some times it happens the 1st time some times I have to do it 3 times before it hangs or crashes.
[17:04] <pmcgowan> robotfuel, ok
[17:12] <pmcgowan> robotfuel, can you add the build and device info to that bug, unable to reproduce it yet anywhere
[17:14] <robotfuel> pmcgowan: done, leo was able to reproduce on rtm image #1
[17:15] <pmcgowan> robotfuel, ok, may be tricky to find
[17:15] <robotfuel> pmcgowan: I found that late friday, I am in the middle of an update and will try with todays image.
[17:17] <stgraber> ogra_: lxc-dnsmasq comes with lxc, that's the user used to run lxc's dnsmasq server when it's used (it's not on the phone)
[17:17] <ogra_> sh
[17:17] <stgraber> ogra_: www-data is now part of the base groups that you get after a debootstrap
[17:17] <ogra_> err
[17:17] <ogra_> ah
[17:18] <ogra_> oh, really ?
[17:18] <ogra_> wow
[17:18] <ogra_> crazy decision
[17:20] <stgraber> I guess that was simpler than have a dozen web servers all try to create/remove it, possibly with disastreous effects :)
[17:22] <robotfuel> pmcgowan: the crash is still there in today's image version_detail: ubuntu=20140922,device=20140919-1b3e670,custom=1411084873,version=54
[17:22] <stgraber> ogra_: ok, so after lunch I'll try to figure out how to get live-build to run that code
[17:27] <pmcgowan> robotfuel, thats rtmproposed on a krillin?
[17:27] <robotfuel> pmcgowan: I had to re-try 5 times to get the crash, I actually have a crash file now, which I was not getting on friday. I'll upload that to the bug.
[17:27] <pmcgowan> robotfuel, might be more to reproducing it
[17:27] <robotfuel> pmcgowan: yes
[17:27] <pmcgowan> robotfuel, ok, I tried 10 times on both devices no luck
[17:31] <kenvandine> robotfuel, the log you posted to the bug has a bunch of alarming warnings related to incomingCallSound
[17:33] <kenvandine> robotfuel, PlaybackStatusChanged signals, unable to set incomingCallSound warning then looks like it checks for whoopsie
[17:34] <kenvandine> robotfuel, maybe the white screen is really related to failures in the media playback sample, just delayed?
[17:34] <robotfuel> kenvandine: I don't think so that was stuff I tried first but couldn't get the app to crash.
[17:35] <robotfuel> kenvandine: I uploaded a new log file with today's crash reproduction just now.
[18:18] <kenvandine> robotfuel, pmcgowan: i've reproduced it, but not easily
[18:19] <kenvandine> you have to hit back very quickly, before the page finishes
[18:19] <pmcgowan> hmmm
[18:19] <kenvandine> i'm guessing it's the call to system-image-dbus to get the info
[18:19] <kenvandine> if it hasn't completed and you back out
[18:19] <kenvandine> and go in again
[18:20] <kenvandine> i don't think it's directly related to anything in the update panel
[18:20] <kenvandine> just racy when calling s-i-d to get the OS info
[18:20] <kenvandine> like maybe you back out and go back in, it gets the async results
[18:20] <kenvandine> then gets them again
[18:20] <kenvandine> hard to get debugging info though...
[18:21] <pmcgowan> did it crash going into updates or os
[18:21] <kenvandine> i got it to crash without ever going into updates
[18:21] <pmcgowan> right
[18:21] <kenvandine> just back and forth in OS
[18:21] <pmcgowan> yep
[18:21] <kenvandine> but the about plugin uses the updates plugin to call s-i-d
[18:22] <kenvandine> just to call information() to get the OS info
[18:24] <kenvandine> pmcgowan, i reproduced it on utopic-proposed too
[18:24] <kenvandine> no crash files for me though
[18:26] <pmcgowan> kenvandine, whats next? seems it may not be as critical if its this hard to repro
[18:26] <kenvandine> we should definately fix it, but maybe high instead of critical
[18:27] <kenvandine> it seems you have to really try to reproduce it
[18:27] <pmcgowan> I sure cant get it
[18:28] <kenvandine> you have to move very quickly :)
[18:28] <kenvandine> it might be easy to fix though, looking
[18:28] <pmcgowan> sounds like a challenge
[18:28] <pmcgowan> maye if we can tell a request s outstanding
[18:28] <pmcgowan> or somehow ignore the first one
[18:31] <pmcgowan> mterry, is this waiting on you for a fix or just needs review? https://code.launchpad.net/~mterry/ubuntu-system-settings/flickable-passwd-page/+merge/235117
[18:39] <taiebot> Hey all getting a bug on unity8 on r250 with the login to youtube button in the video scope and the youtube scope. After the account window opening if i cancel the creation of the account unity8 uses 100% cpu and hangs.
[18:40] <cwayne> jdstrand: this + updates to the tarball seems to work: http://paste.ubuntu.com/8405146/
[18:42] <kenvandine> pmcgowan, robotfuel: i might have a fix, but I need to wait for debs to actually test
[18:47] <mterry> pmcgowan, waiting for review
[18:48] <kenvandine> mterry, i'll get that reviewed
[18:48] <mterry> kenvandine, I'm working on a big wizard ui refresh, fixing the password screen finally
[18:48] <mterry> fyi
[18:48] <kenvandine> woot
[18:51] <pmcgowan> mterry, are you taking out the **** on the PIN entry screen?
[18:52] <mterry> pmcgowan, wasn't planning to for the systems settings screen, but will for the wizard
[18:52] <jdstrand> cwayne: sorry, was in a meeting
[18:52] <elopio> charles: ping. Do you have the number for the orientation lock bug? I see it mentioned here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Process/Merges/TestPlan/indicator-display
[18:53] <jdstrand> cwayne: nice!
[18:53] <jdstrand> cwayne: can you adjust the if to be:
[18:53] <jdstrand> cwayne: actually, nm
[18:54] <jdstrand> cwayne: I was thinking it might be nice to check for the existence of /custom/lib/apparmor/profiles and /custom/lib/apparmor/clicks
[18:54] <greyback_> taiebot: hey, I can't find a bug about that. Please report https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity8
[18:54] <greyback_> thanks very much :)
[18:54] <jdstrand> cwayne: rather than just /custom/lib/apparmor. I guess if your tools make sure those exists, than it is fine
[18:55] <elopio> seb128 or jgdx: you may know about that. The orientation lock doesn't seem to work. Is there a bug for it?
[18:55] <cwayne> jdstrand: i can certainly add those in to be extra robust
[18:55] <elopio> or maybe ubuntu-qa ^
[18:55] <seb128> elopio, yes, unity8 doesn't implement it yet
[18:55] <pmcgowan> mterry, its kinda odd, as that generally indicates chars already entered
[18:55] <pmcgowan> very non-std ui
[18:55] <seb128> elopio, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-system-settings/+bug/1288332
[18:56] <mterry> pmcgowan, that was there when I got there!  :)  I haven't seen a visual design for that 'change password' screen ever
[18:56] <cwayne> jdstrand: so btw to emulate first-boot as much as i could, i removed all related files from /var/lib/apparmor/profiles, /var/lib/apparmor/clicks,/var/cache/apparmor/, and then rm -rf'd /custom and applied a new tarball
[18:56] <greyback_> elopio: code is in silo to fix orientation lock
[18:56] <cwayne> jdstrand: do you think that's sufficient?
[18:56] <elopio> thanks seb128, greyback_. On the display indicator test plan it says there's a command to do it and make the indicator appear, but that doesn't seem to work either.
[18:57] <elopio> greyback_: does your fix make the indicator appear?
[18:57] <greyback_> elopio: test plan a bit premature, the backend code for it is not there yet (silo will add)
[18:57] <greyback_> elopio: no, I've not made the indicator
[18:58] <pmcgowan> mterry, let me dig one up, I think its a suability issue
[18:58] <elopio> greyback_: ok, it seems we should just not run that test plan yet.
[18:59] <pmcgowan> mterry, kenvandine  the design shows it blank, who added those ****?
[19:00] <pmcgowan> mterry, kenvandine  we should also plan to support the new solution for echoing just the latest entry
[19:00] <mterry> pmcgowan, yeah... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityAndPrivacySettings#Phone doesn't have any chars
[19:00] <kenvandine> pmcgowan, i think that's a toolkit bug
[19:00] <kenvandine> we just set the mask
[19:00] <mterry> kenvandine, the * chars?  naw
[19:00] <kenvandine> iirc
[19:00] <mterry> kenvandine, I think that's on us
[19:00] <pmcgowan> kenvandine, kindof, it need a fix in qtubuntu to use what qt provides
[19:01] <pmcgowan> but I think you may need to set the delay desired
[19:01] <taiebot> greyback: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity8/+bug/1372611
[19:02] <greyback_> taiebot: many thanks
[19:02] <pmcgowan> kenvandine, mterry its this bug, see comment 12 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/+bug/1237614
[19:03] <pmcgowan> kenvandine, but the field should not start with * in it
[19:04] <kenvandine> at least in LockSecurity.qml we just set inputMask on TextField
[19:04] <kenvandine> no *
[19:06] <kenvandine> inputMask: 9999
[19:06] <kenvandine> seems to give you the ****
[19:06] <kenvandine> because it's a password
[19:06] <kenvandine> but the mask shouldn't actually populate it, afaik
[19:07] <kenvandine> but mterry probably knows best, i just copied his code for that :)
[19:08] <taiebot> greyback: where do you report scopes bug? In the video scope clicking on the bottom left video launches the log in to Youtube account
[19:08] <mterry> kenvandine, no I didn't invent that inputMask code -- that was before my time
[19:08] <mterry> kenvandine, can we not do something besides inputMask?  Can't we just cap the field at 4 characters and tell it to not show the chars?
[19:14] <jdstrand> cwayne: it does sound like it yes. I am not super-familiar with first boot, however, I did not consider that the click security manifests would not be present
[19:15] <jdstrand> cwayne: this accounts for all of that. there is nothing more involved with click apparmor policy cache than those 3 directories
[19:16] <cwayne> jdstrand: great, i think we may finally have it then :)
[19:16] <kenvandine> mterry, the inputMask doesn't just limit the length, it's for validation
[19:17] <mterry> kenvandine, but I thought InputFields had another way to do that
[19:17] <kenvandine> so 0-9
[19:17] <kenvandine> oh... maybe :)
[19:18] <mterry> kenvandine, I think we can set validator: IntValidator{bottom: 0; top: 9999;} or something like that
[19:18] <mterry> kenvandine, I'd have to dig through the options
[19:18] <cwayne> jdstrand: would you care to comment on the MP?  i added checks for those dirs btw
[19:18] <cwayne> https://code.launchpad.net/~cwayne18/ubuntu-touch-customization-hooks/more-apparmor-copy/+merge/235519
[19:18] <kenvandine> mterry, either way, i wouldn't expect seeing the inputMask should make it display the echo characters
[19:18] <kenvandine> s/seeing/setting/
[19:19] <kenvandine> probably easy to work around with our own validator
[19:20] <mterry> kenvandine, hrm yah.  I'm looking at http://qt-project.org/doc/qt-5/qlineedit.html#inputMask-prop (which is what qml ends up setting), and it doesn't mention the chars being visible
[19:20] <mterry> just seems like a shortcut to doing our own validating
[19:27] <stgraber> slangasek, ogra_: live-build is such a mess...
[19:29] <jikote> Hello guys
[19:29] <jikote> I really need a ubuntu-phone
[19:30] <jikote> It seems we will be able to buy one really late so... I'm considering to buy a jiayu to install ubuntu
[19:30] <jikote> is this possible?
[19:31] <mhall119> jiayu?
[19:31] <popey> WHOOOOOO!?
[19:31] <mhall119> !devices > jikote
[19:32] <mhall119> bah, I can never remember which goes to PM
[19:32] <mhall119> !devices | jikote
[19:32] <jikote> Thank you
[19:32] <jikote> It not appears there
[19:32] <jikote> so... Is not possible?
[19:34] <popey> someone would need to port it
[19:35] <jikote> popey: is it difficult?
[19:39] <mhall119> jikote: it depends on whether or not you know how to port Android
[19:39] <mhall119> for somebody who's made a Cyanogenmod port it shouldn't be too difficult
[19:39] <jikote> oops...
[19:39] <jikote> And tell me, do you know when will be BQ and Meizu devices available?
[19:39] <popey> no
[19:39] <popey> that's up to them
[19:40] <jikote> Do you guys have ubuntu on your phones?
[19:41] <popey> yes
[19:48] <jdstrand> cwayne: commented
[19:53] <stgraber> slangasek, ogra_: does either of you know how to do an image build using a PPA so I can attempt to build a test touch image using a PPA with a custom live-build and livecd-rootfs (I had to patch live-build to add a hook point...)
[19:57] <pmcgowan> mterry, while you are in there, need some feedback on the finish the wizrd button
[19:58] <mterry> pmcgowan, k..
[19:59] <pindonga> hi jdstrand dholbach approved this, but it looks like it needs to be manually merged?
[19:59] <cwayne> jdstrand: thanks, pushed an update
[19:59] <pindonga> https://code.launchpad.net/~ricardokirkner/click-reviewers-tools/frameworks-from-api/+merge/235029
[20:00] <ogra_> stgraber, no, i kno wthat colin did it once and that it is technically possible now ... but i have no idea how
[20:01] <stgraber> ogra_: yeah, same thing here, I know it's possible but I have no idea how and I'd rather not break both live-build and livecd-rootfs in the archive :)
[20:01] <ogra_> stgraber, dont patch live build :) your changes need to go into livecd-rootfs ...
[20:02] <jdstrand> pindonga: committed. thanks!
[20:02] <pindonga> ty
[20:02] <slangasek> stgraber: mmm no, I don't know how the ppa builds work... I think you have to configure that when setting up a livefs build in launchpad?
[20:02] <stgraber> ogra_: I had to introduce a new live-build hook type
[20:02] <ogra_> ouch
[20:02] <stgraber> yeah...
[20:07] <jdstrand> cwayne: one inline comment
[20:07] <cwayne> jdstrand: i wanted to keep the shortcircuit just to bail out and not do 3 unnecessary if's if those dirs didn't exist
[20:08] <popey> bfiller: who owns this? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/account-polld/+bug/1365206 - the wording makes my skin itch whenever I see a notification! ☻
[20:08] <jdstrand> cwayne: that's fine. fixing the whitespace would be nice
[20:08] <popey> I made a patch, but I think it needs some i18n magic?
[20:08] <jdstrand> popey: fyi, I tried your forecast webapp over the weekend. it is pretty nice
[20:09] <jdstrand> popey: I also noticed and apparmor denial with the location service. did location work right for you?
[20:09] <cwayne> jdstrand: fixed and pushed :)
[20:10] <popey> jdstrand: it shows my home town, so I guess location must have worked somehow
[20:10] <stgraber> ogra_, slangasek: ok, so I've posted the two patches in the bug report. Now what do you want me to do? upload those and hope for the best (I estimate the chance of a touch build failure around 80% with 75% of that not being my fault but random packages not liking what I'm doing to them) or wait for cjwatson to tell us how to do a test build using a PPA?
[20:10] <jdstrand> popey: cool. it didn't here, but I adjusted apparmor-easyprof-ubuntu 1.2.25 for it, so now it will work for me :)
[20:10] <popey> ooh yes, i see lots of denials
[20:10] <popey> haha
[20:10] <popey> do I need to modify anything?
[20:10] <ogra_> stgraber, how long is colin out ?
[20:10] <jdstrand> popey: the denials that are there now I think is cause it wants 'audio'
[20:11] <stgraber> ogra_: he should be back tomorrow I think
[20:11] <popey> ok
[20:11] <jdstrand> popey: (other than the one location one I mentioned)
[20:11] <jdstrand> cwayne: done. thanks!
[20:11] <ogra_> stgraber, then lets wait i'd say ... as long as we get it in before thu all is fine i think ...
[20:11] <ogra_> slangasek, ?
[20:11] <jdstrand> cwayne: thrid times the charm? :)
[20:11] <popey> wonder why it wants audio
[20:11] <jdstrand> third*
[20:11] <cwayne> jdstrand: thanks for all the help (i really think this one will work :P)
[20:11] <cwayne> ha, yeah :)
[20:12] <jdstrand> cwayne: yes, your test case and our further discussion I think finally got everything needed
[20:12] <stgraber> ogra_: getting the change before thursday should be reasonably easy (assuming I can get someone to follow-up on any crazy train stuff that needs to happen as I've got other things to do), what I'm worried about is all the potential packages that will need fixing as a result of this
[20:12] <stgraber> if all maintainer scripts were properly written, we wouldn't have any problem, but I somehow suspect that's not the case and we'll see a bunch of them blowing up
[20:13] <ogra_> stgraber, i doubt the train makes sense at all here ... many eyes and if possible a test build
[20:13] <ogra_> (hmm, i dont even know if rtm uses an rtm live-build/livecd-rootfs)
[20:14] <stgraber> live-build at least is identical everywhere since trusty
[20:14] <stgraber> live-cdrootfs in rtm appears to be two uploads behind
[20:14] <ogra_> right, but the builders upgrade their livecd-rootfs before the build starts
[20:14] <bfiller> popey: not sure
[20:14] <ogra_> and i dont know from which repo that comes for rtm
[20:15] <ogra_> another thing that only colin knows i guess (or perhaps IS)
[20:15] <stgraber> would be easy to check if we had the build logs
[20:16] <stgraber> but I'm not finding the ubuntu-rtm livefs build logs at the usual place
[20:16] <ogra_> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-cdimage/+livefs/ubuntu/utopic/ubuntu-touch/
[20:17] <stgraber> that's the non-rtm one though?
[20:17] <ogra_> and https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-cdimage/+livefs/ubuntu-rtm/14.09/ubuntu-touch/
[20:17] <stgraber> ah, there we go
[20:19] <stgraber> ogra_: it's pulling from the derived archive, so that confirms rtm is running with an old livecd-rootfs then
[20:19] <ogra_> yeah
[20:19] <ogra_> not sure how we will have to solve that
[20:20] <stgraber> ogra_: anyway, I'll get back to doing the work I'm supposed to do now. If you can catch cjwatson tomorrow morning, ask him if he can trigger a touch build with ppa:stgraber/experimental added to it. I've got the updated live-build and livecd-rootfs in there.
[20:20] <jikote> popey: what mobile phone do you have?
[20:20] <ogra_> stgraber, willl do, and thanks !
[20:20] <stgraber> if by some kind of miracle nothing blows up, then feel free to copy over to the archive
[20:20] <popey> jikote: nexus 4
[20:20] <jikote> popey: thanks
[20:25] <pmcgowan> kenvandine, did your branch for the OS panel crash work
[20:28] <kenvandine> pmcgowan, i think so
[20:30] <tedg> charles, Trying to figure out this non-split-greeter stuff for sound.
[20:30] <tedg> charles, We have one player action that has the track info. (makes sense)
[20:31] <tedg> charles, but the problem becomes how to split it out
[20:31] <tedg> charles, Which do you think is less ugly: handling it at the UI level or making a player action for greeter/non-greeter?
[20:32] <doneill> does Mir work on the Mali400 with GLES2 acceleration?
[20:32] <tedg> doneill, Folks in #ubuntu-mir would probably know better
[20:33] <kenvandine> robotfuel, can you try my branch and see if you can still reproduce that crash?
[20:34] <kenvandine> robotfuel, http://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/generic-mediumtests-builder-utopic-armhf/6320/artifact/work/output/*zip*/output.zip
[20:34] <kenvandine> robotfuel, i'm pretty sure that should fix it
[20:46] <swordfish> Hello everyone. Tonight I've updated the qtcreator-ubuntu-plugin and the emulator, but it it not detected. Qt creator keeps telling me that the device is booting (no matter how many time I refresh it) and adb devices shows it as offline. Do you have any idea? (I'm running Ubuntu 14.04 with the ubuntu-sdk ppa)
[21:11] <robotfuel> kenvandine: trying your branch now
[21:32] <bodegam> hi all, i just cloned messaging-app..   got "Could not find a package configuration file provided by "Qt5Versit" with". i cant see any qt5 versit dev package.. any help?
[21:33] <dobey> bodegam: apt-get build-dep messaging-app doesn't work?
[21:42] <bodegam> hi dobey, no
[21:43] <bodegam> for playing with ubuntu-touch rtm apps, ubuntu 14.10 is mandatory?
[21:46] <dobey> bodegam: yes, the in-development version is 14.10
[21:50] <bodegam> ah ok.. not sure if it's better to wait beta for update or not..
[21:52] <dobey> bodegam: you can run it in a vm, lxc container, or chroot
[21:53] <dobey> or just wait if you want
[21:53] <dobey> anyway, time for me to go
[21:53] <bodegam> ok, and bye bye
[21:54] <bodegam> thk you


[06:02] <fabbione> morning
[09:52] <chmj> morning
[01:36] <zul> heylo...
[01:36] <zul> im offically un-employed again ;)
[01:37] <fabbione> ehhe
[01:37] <chmj> hmmm ?
[01:37] <fabbione> zul: congratulation
[01:37] <zul> thanks :)
[01:38] <zul> ....and i have accepted the position
[01:39] <fabbione> ehhe
[01:40] <zul> chmj: i recently started a new job and got an offer and accepted it for a higher paying job somewhere else...hence im un-employed again
[01:41] <zul> in theory
[01:42] <chmj> oh I see
[01:42] <zul> fun isnt it
[01:42] <chmj> zul: in that case congratulations !
[01:42] <zul> thanks :)
[01:43] <fabbione> zul: when you start at the new place?
[01:43] <zul> monday
[01:43] <zul> ...long weekend for me ;)
[01:43] <zul> but i have another doctor's appointment tomorrow
[01:43] <fabbione> ehhe
[01:51] <zul> world domination is mine....ahahaha
[02:54] <zul> hey jeffarino
[02:56] <jbailey> Heya Chuck!
[02:57] <zul> how goes it?
[03:00] <jbailey> Good.  The place still looks like it was hit by a bomb. =)
[03:00] <jbailey> Plugged in the IP phone a couple minutes ago, so we have phone service again.
[03:00] <jbailey> Can't find the wireless router, so I'm limited to one computer at a time (it's also my switch)
[04:34] <fabbione> hey jeff
[04:34] <fabbione> fix glibc double simbols for sparc otherwise i can't compile gnome. kthxbye :)
[04:35] <fabbione> oh he is not here
[04:35] <fabbione> crap
[04:45] <fabbione> hey jeff
[04:45] <fabbione> fix glibc double simbols for sparc otherwise i can't compile gnome. kthxbye :)
[04:47] <doko> fabbione: the unionfs ice tarball lacks the .i file and the command line used to compile
[04:47] <jbailey> double symbols?
[04:47] <jbailey> AKA, bugzilla #?
[04:47] <jbailey> or other text of error?
[04:47] <fabbione> doko: i told you before.. there was no .i
[04:47] <fabbione> doko: and the log is in the tarball
[04:48] <fabbione> jbailey: i did send you an email
[04:48] <doko> hmm
[04:48] <fabbione> according to doko it's a symbol exported twice in glibc
[04:48] <fabbione> doko: let me check again the build dir
[04:48] <fabbione> i didn't trash it
[04:48] <fabbione> but the command line is there
[04:49] <jbailey> Eh?  HTF did you wind up with two PLTs?
[04:50] <jbailey> And why can you compile anything else?
[04:50] <fabbione> jbailey: dunno...
[04:50] <fabbione> me idea has none
[04:51] <fabbione> doko:
[04:51] <fabbione> find . -name "*.i"
[04:51] <fabbione> ./null.i
[04:51] <fabbione> ./asm-offsets.i
[04:51] <fabbione> that's all
[05:02] <doko> ugly
[05:09] <fabbione> doko: i can try to rerun...
[05:09] <fabbione> no idea why..
[05:09] <fabbione> did you find the build log in there?
[05:11] <jbailey> Oy, Fabio.  Is 2.6.12 the default now?
[05:11] <fabbione> jbailey: yes
[05:11] <ogra> jbailey, bah, you are far behind
[05:11] <fabbione> since a while
[05:11] <ivoks> hi
[05:11] <ivoks> we have a nasty bug
[05:11] <jbailey> ogra: This is my first working day in the past 5 or 6 =)
[05:11] <fabbione> doko: ok.. cleaned all *.i and *.s
[05:11] <fabbione> ivoks: bugzilla please
[05:12] <ivoks> fabbione: i did
[05:12] <fabbione> we only discuss development here
[05:12] <doko> I'm away now, back at 22:00 UTC
[05:12] <fabbione> ivoks: than it will be processed with all the other
[05:12] <fabbione> s
[05:12] <fabbione> doko: just ONE sec..
[05:12] <ogra> jbailey, you didnt use a wlan equipped moving van ? tsk
[05:12] <fabbione> it doesn't take long
[05:12] <ivoks>  Opened: 2005-04-17
[05:12] <ivoks> and it's dos
[05:12] <ivoks> by user
[05:12] <jbailey> ogra: No, and sadly, I can't find my WAP either.  Buried in a box somewhere.
[05:13] <ogra> meh
[05:13] <ogra> moving is odd
[05:13] <fabbione> doko: i confirm.. there is NO .i
[05:14] <fabbione> ivoks: bug number+
[05:14] <ivoks> 9830
[05:15] <ivoks> it seems it is a kernel bug, despite my comment
[05:16] <ivoks> or isn't :)
[05:16] <ivoks> confused :)
[05:16] <fabbione> it's not a kernel bug.. there is even an extra reference to the debian bts
[05:17] <ivoks> did you read it?
[05:17] <ivoks> i referenced
[05:17] <ivoks> The kernels 2.4.28+ and 2.6.9+ with IPv4 and ATM-CLIP enabled have bugs
[05:17] <fabbione> it's not a kernel bug....
[05:17] <ivoks> ok
[05:17] <fabbione> you cannot run these commands as user
[05:17] <fabbione> and if the userland is fool enough NOT to do the proper uid checks.. well...
[05:17] <ivoks> you can
[05:18] <fabbione> ain't a kernel problem ;)
[05:18] <ivoks> i agree
[05:18] <fabbione> no you can't
[05:18] <fabbione> 'ip addr flush dev eth0' enters an endless loop
[05:18] <fabbione> this is an admin command
[05:18] <ivoks> yes
[05:18] <fabbione> you need sudo
[05:18] <ogra> fabbione, you cann, they just dont do what they should
[05:18] <ivoks> sorry, it isn't a kernel bug
[05:18] <ogra> (i.e. failing gracefully)
[05:18] <fabbione> ogra: exactly.. it's a non command if you are not root
[05:18] <ivoks> but it is a bug, nasy one...
[05:19] <fabbione> and if it fails in a loop.. it's a bug
[05:19] <fabbione> definetely not in the kernel
[05:19] <ogra> ivoks, its just wrong exectutable rights ;)
[05:19] <ivoks> in breezy there is no bug
[05:19] <fabbione> ivoks: ip has been updated in breezy iirc
[05:19] <ivoks> i know
[05:19] <ivoks> that's why there isn't a bug :)
[05:20] <ivoks> ok, my comment was right on bug, it isn't a kernel bug... sorry for bringing alarm to this channel :)
[05:21] <ogra> ivoks, now that you are here, fix some kernel bugs ;)
[05:23] <ivoks> :))
[05:24] <ivoks> i have exam tomorrow
[05:24] <ivoks> i should be looking at notes and books :)
[05:24] <ogra> so fixing kernel bugs is a good excus then *g*
[05:25] <ivoks> well, profesor uses linux :)
[05:25] <ogra> you see :)
[05:25] <ivoks> if i tell him i spent all my time fixing linux, maybe i'll pass :)
[05:26] <ivoks> sorry... this class is very important, human lives depend on it, no passing here if you aren't brilliant :/
[05:27] <ivoks> next wed i'll work all time on bugs
[08:22] <jbailey> Dammit, no fridge in hand.
[08:22] <jbailey> It took 2 hours to return the u-haul.
[08:27] <lamont> ew
[10:08] <jbailey> The new udev wants a kernel >2.6.10.  How do we force kernel upgrades to go first?
[10:08] <jbailey> I could use preinst love...
[10:08] <jbailey> Not a terribly good test, but it's worked so far for glibc.
[10:49] <jbailey> Feh.  Can we just make a generic "linux" package, which is the minimum guarnateed version to be on the system?
[10:49] <jbailey> It can be from the same family as linux-power* and depend on a sane working one for a given arch.
[10:50] <jbailey> If the user happens to replace it and point his bootloader to something else, then fine, but we don't support them in those cases anyway.


[02:37] <marco__> hola
[02:37] <marco__> alguien habla español?
[02:37] <yoyo> !es
[02:38] <marco__> Ok, gracias
[03:29] <FacuArmo> Hi guys
[03:29] <FacuArmo> Is there someone online?
[04:08] <relic> Is there anyway of creating 2 seperate Xscreens with 16.10?
[04:08] <relic> not mirrored, and not one single screen on two monitors
[05:33] <FireStriker> hi guys whats the system specs for kubuntu
[05:36] <valorie> FireStriker: system specs?
[05:36] <valorie> also not all of us here are guys
[05:37] <FireStriker> well i use guys for everyone
[05:38] <FireStriker> so im not just talking to all the men lol
[05:38] <FireStriker> yea the system specs
[05:51] <valorie> FireStriker: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/SystemRequirements
[05:52] <valorie> "guys" doesn't feel very inclusive to me (female) -- I try to use people or folks
[07:39] <user|89794> Hi. How to switch my second display to duplicate mode?
[07:42] <hateball> user|89794: Do you mean you have an external display connected to a laptop and want to mirror?
[07:42] <hateball> or 2 monitors on a desktop?
[07:44] <user|89794> I have PC and 2 monitors
[07:45] <hateball> user|89794: arranging your monitors on top of each other in the screen configuration should make them cloned iirc
[07:45] <hateball> if you set them to same size
[07:45] <hateball> If you are using an nvidia card with nvidia blob you probably want to use nvidia-settings to change this
[07:55] <user|89794> Thank. I did it. I set same resolution for all and it work
[07:56] <hateball> :)
[08:41] <ChetManly> is the baloo broken in neon?
[08:51] <user|243> hi
[09:13] <hateball> ChetManly: elaborate
[09:13] <ChetManly> hateball: what
[09:14] <hateball> ChetManly: ugh, nevermind I didnt even read the last bit about neon
[09:14] <hateball> !neon
[09:16] <ChetManly> hateball: I hadnt realized I asked the question in the wrong channel
[09:17] <ChetManly> new colors in client
[09:49] <genetron> Hi
[09:49] <genetron> How to have virtual desktop grid like Ubuntu? Any help?
[09:52] <genetron> Anyone on?
[09:54] <genetron> Hey
[09:54] <hateball> !patience | genetron
[09:55] <hateball> genetron: do you mean to present all virtual desktops in a grid?
[09:55] <genetron> Ok thanks. Yes hateball.
[09:55] <genetron> Sorry for repeating.
[09:55] <hateball> genetron: open krunner (alt+f2) search for effects
[09:56] <genetron> Ok. Thanks.
[09:57] <hateball> genetron: It should be in the bottom, window managment
[10:03] <hateball> hmmm, the preview video function seems broken for me
[10:04] <hateball> heh... videos are in mp4 and it appears this uses gstreamer... why isnt it ogg/theora or something :|
[10:08] <hateball> Yep, that is indeed ugly.
[10:08] <hateball> genetron: So the effects thing has preview videos, but you need to "sudo apt install gstreamer1.0-plugins-ugly" to be able to play them
[10:09] <hateball> It should be a dependency I think, or even better have the videos in a free format like ogg/theora
[10:09] <genetron> That was something new. I will try for sure.
[10:09] <hateball> genetron: once you have that installed, you can click the little red film reel thing
[10:09] <hateball> easier to see if it's really that effect you want :)
[10:10] <hateball> Now this is on 16.04 with backports ppa... can anyone running 16.10 confirm if it is the same there?
[10:11] <genetron> Lots of stuff there.. m still exploring. I was talking about preview all virtual desktops in 2*2 Grid.
[10:11] <genetron> Like ctrl+s in Ubuntu
[10:11] <hateball> genetron: yeah I know what you mean, I dont recall which one it is tho
[10:11] <hateball> atm I only use multimonitor without virtual desktops myself
[10:11] <hateball> I think the effect is called "Exposé" or so?
[10:11] <genetron> That's cool
[10:14] <genetron> Okay. Since i don't have access currently, i will see soon. Thanks for suggestion hateball
[10:31] <maxac> Hey, anyone there? I need help about migration KMail data.
[10:32] <hateball> !details
[10:36] <maxac> Ok, I upgraded Kubuntu 14.04 to 16.04 but that did not work very well - KMail could be used, but that was it, not Kaddressbook, no Korganizer and, among other problems that are of no concern here and now, KWallet only worked for 2 days and then could be started, but not used
[10:38] <maxac> So now I deleted my /home date to set up a fresh and uncompromised system, and what I intend to do is to re-migrate my former user-data into this fresh set-up. Starting with PIM and later, my browser, cause I need KMail and Korganizer for work
[10:40] <maxac> Problem is that I found out that I cannot simply paste the KDE4 config data into the KDE directories
[10:42] <BluesKaj> Hey folks
[10:42] <beelthazad> heyhey
[10:43] <BluesKaj> what's up ?
[10:43] <maxac> The KDEUserWiki FAQs say that that can't be done unless you change the references in the config files, but I am simply lost with that: Which of those config files, which lines, which information ... HELL! I am quite feed up since somehow KWallet disappeared - with all the data in it.
[10:45] <maxac> So, what I hope for is that there might be someone willing to coach me through these steps and helping me to avoid f***ing up the whole set up again.
[10:46] <BluesKaj> maxac, system settings>account details>Kwallet , not available?
[10:47] <maxac> In the past I got round with similar issues ... somehow managed them, but after years of using KDE Kontact, I must have stuffed my system with a lot of erroneous data
[10:48] <maxac> Well, KWallet is fine now, on the fresh set up.
[10:49]  * BluesKaj never bothered with Kwallet, or PIM, being a home user
[10:49] <maxac> So I'll be able to use it - it offers itself for configuration - no problem. But how could the 'old wallet' disappear just like that? It had been working alright for two day ...
[10:52] <maxac> Well ... no silver streak on the horizon for me??
[10:52] <acheronuk> BluesKaj: me neither. although shoudl be pointed out that 14.04 -> 16.04 upgrade is not supported/advised against. sadly kubuntu can't turn of the upgrade notification as that is ubuntu controlled
[10:54] <maxac> Anyway, I am past that upgrade problem. But I need to do a proper job in migrating my 'old' home data. Anybody got an idea where to get help?
[10:56] <BluesKaj> acheronuk, my 14.04 to16.04 went well enough, but I wouldn't have noticed any problems with kwallet etc, anyway
[10:56] <BluesKaj> maxac, separate / and /home partitions?
[10:56] <maxac> Sure
[10:58] <maxac> Too bad that it seems I must have made some mistake while backing up (which took nearly 4 days). No trace of my old wallet.
[11:08] <Dr_Coke> Is anybody fully cooked in here?a
[11:10] <hateball> maxac: I had the same issue when migrating
[11:10] <hateball> maxac: the wallet itself should still be in like... ~/.kde/kwallet/ or so
[11:11] <hateball> maxac: but you need kwalletd4 installed to open it iirc, to be able to export to kwallet5
[11:11] <hateball> I just flipped a table and started fresh
[11:12] <BluesKaj> Dr_Coke, do you have a support question or are you here to help ?
[11:36] <maxac> Sorry, hateball, I am not with you. I can find various Wallet files, but the one with the old date cannot be found anywhere. Do I get you right that that problem is about Kwallet4 and 5?? What do I have to do to fix this, I mean, is it not too late?
[11:40] <maxac> I can't  .... Ah. I just discover that libpam-kwallet4 and 5 are BOTH installed on my system. Is there a conflict or is it right?
[11:40] <hateball> as I remember you need v4 of stuff to open old wallet, that can then be migrated to v5
[11:41] <hateball> libpam-kwallet is just used to unlock the wallet when you login tho, you need other packages as well
[11:42] <hateball> maxac: anyhow, the old stuff *should* be in ~/.kde/share/apps/kwallet
[11:42] <maxac> It is not.
[11:43] <hateball> I can however see in my case that the wallet gets touched at bootup, possibly by libpam-kwallet4. however the wallet file itself cant be opened by the actual libkf5wallet5
[11:44] <hateball> maxac: so what do you get from "find ~/ -name kwallet" ?
[11:44] <hateball> ugh, it's kdewallet
[11:45] <hateball> also my find syntax is wrong xD
[11:45] <hateball> I have to go get coffee.
[11:50] <maxac> Anyway, thank you for you help. But I have to go back to overdue work and must make another pass at this later. Enjoy your coffee, hateball.
[15:01] <SpeCon> hello all
[15:01] <SpeCon> i have a problem with my kubuntu / libreoffice
[15:01] <SpeCon> is there any website like paste bin to show a screenshot
[15:01] <SpeCon> because my english is not so good and i don't know how to explain my problem
[15:02] <SpeCon> there is something wrong with the items / menu in libreoffice it shows me the background of my desktop background
[15:02] <SpeCon> wich is pink
[15:04] <BluesKaj> !paste
[15:04] <SpeCon> ok
[15:04] <SpeCon> hold on
[15:05] <SpeCon> hmm i need to signup on imgur first
[15:08] <SpeCon> http://imgur.com/gallery/TkBKh
[15:09] <SpeCon> i think thats my upload can you check?
[15:21] <marco-parillo> There is the pink background, but do you also have fuzzy icons?
[15:22] <marco-parillo> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg/+bug/1625595
[15:32] <dbrom> Anyone ising 16.04
[15:32] <dbrom> using
[16:08] <marco-parillo> I would guess most are. It is the latest LTS version. Are you having a problem?
[16:11] <[Relic]> k16.10, is there any way to stop task manager from sorting alphabetically?  sorting settings are currently "by desktop" and "do not group" yet, everytime I open a 2nd or 3rd FF window from the same instance of FF it sorts them alphabetically rather than simply placing them to the right as it should.
[16:51] <flo__> hello
[16:52] <flo__> does anyone know a Volume Indexer To Index CD/DVD, USB and Local Drives?
[16:52] <flo__> except Basenji
[18:35] <plaked> hi
[18:35] <plaked> hola
[18:35] <plaked> alguien puede ayudarme
[18:35] <plaked> can someone help me
[18:35] <plaked> ?
[18:39] <marco-parillo> Help you with what problem?
[18:40] <plaked> i cant set up the led lights from my intuos  wacom
[18:41] <plaked> actually im new to linux im trying and so far i like it, its hard to understand how konsole works but i think im doing fine so far
[18:42] <genii> !cli
[18:42]  * genii smacks the bot
[18:42] <plaked> but i cant set up the leds from my intuos tablet and i cant find where to customize it
[18:43] <plaked> also i dont know or i cant install cryengine in kubuntu, im running kubuntu 17.04
[18:45] <plaked> so can someone help me please, im just trying to switch to GNU/Linux for real
[18:46] <plaked> but i dont understand it as i wish right now, i mean i have just 1 week with it
[18:46] <genii> Zesty ( 17.04) is not in official release until April 2017. Support for it will begin after it is released
[18:47] <plaked> ok so it means i wont have my tablet functionallity 100 until next year?
[18:48] <genii> plaked: You should probably install 16.04.1 instead ( Xenial ) and then return with specific questions we can help with under that release instead ( which is also a Long Term Support release and will be good to use for 5 years )
[18:49] <plaked> everything else work fine, just i cant instal cryengine and i can make my tablet leds work or make it customize
[18:50] <plaked> i cant downgrade kubuntu right?
[18:50] <genii> plaked: If you want to keep 17.04 then you'll have to wait until April next year for help on any issues you're having with it.
[18:50] <plaked> so that mean i need to reinstal it?
[18:51] <genii> That's correct, there is no rollback or downgrade. a clean install is the only way to go to a lower version that what you have
[18:52] <plaked> ok
[18:53] <plaked> do you know where i can find some help to learn or understand linux
[18:53] <plaked> ?
[18:53] <plaked> better if its in spanish
[18:54] <genii> plaked: For a general overview of linux, The Linux Documentation Project is  decent. For Ubuntu specific , the online user manual is suggested
[18:54] <plaked> because some words or computer thecnisisms are hard some times
[18:56] <genii> plaked: TLDP http://www.tldp.org/  For Ubuntu, try https://help.ubuntu.com/  and see if it offers the manual in the language of your web browser
[18:59] <plaked> omg thank you so much
[18:59] <plaked> i like kubuntu so far i hope i can stay in it from now on
[19:00] <plaked> with out getting back to other OS
[19:00] <plaked> thanx genii
[19:00] <genii> Glad to assist :)
[19:00] <plaked> :)
[19:01] <genii> Also, Kubuntu-specific but likely only in English http://docs.kubuntu.org/
[19:01] <plaked> i have a question
[19:02] <plaked> is kubuntu same thing as ubuntu just with another desktop theme?
[19:02] <plaked> cuz i cant find much things in the web but everything i red for ubuntu works in kubuntu
[19:03] <genii> plaked: For the most part, yes. So underneath all of the *buntu ( Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Lubuntu, Xubuntu, etc)  all the same commands you can type in will be the same
[19:04] <plaked> so just desk themes make the diferent
[19:05] <genii> plaked: There are some differences between some of the *buntu because the Desktop Environment ( which you called desktop theme, but not really a theme) use different systems underneath. Like XFCE for Xubuntu, Qt for Kubuntu, etc
[19:05] <plaked> i mean i am pretty sure they have their diferences but to understand when im looking for something in the web
[19:05] <plaked> but most of softwares and commands are the same?
[19:06] <plaked> also the way to install pakages?
[19:08] <genii> plaked: Yes, you can use any package manager from any *buntu to install applications. Ubuntu uses Software Centre, Kubuntu uses Muon Discover. Underneath they are both using apt and dpkg
[19:09] <plaked> another thing
[19:09] <plaked> when i get .tar
[19:10] <plaked> and when i go to the folder after unzipping them
[19:10] <plaked> most of the time ./configure command, make, and make install
[19:10] <plaked> never work
[19:10] <plaked> why?
[19:13] <genii> plaked: I will address your questions as i can, but please know I am at my work also, so some answers may be delayed
[19:14] <genii> plaked: Whenever possible, avoid downloading the source code for some application which you want to install. The usual procedure is: search first in the package manager for it, install it from there.
[19:14] <plaked> yes i understand, i am at work too, but i have some time while i wait for a rnder to come out
[19:14] <plaked> so its better to look for them as an ppa?
[19:15] <genii> plaked: If not available there, next, search Launchpad for a PPA ( Personal Package Archive ) from a reputable source, which is updated regularly
[19:16] <genii> plaked: 1) Muon Discover/Software Centre if possible. These are already ported to *buntu and considered stable versions. 2) PPAs
[19:18] <plaked> ok, thanx so much
[19:19] <genii> If 1)  and 2) still does not have what you need, then you can find the source code and build it, but it should be compiled into a package which then apt and dpkg can install and deinstall if required. For this, it's best to read the Packaging Guide, which is not for the faint of heart
[19:20] <genii> Packaging Guide: http://packaging.ubuntu.com/html/
[19:22] <plaked> ok
[19:22] <plaked> im glad i can found you today
[19:22] <plaked> luv u <3
[19:23] <[Relic]> Is it possible to get a plasma desktop on each seperate xscreen?
[19:23] <genii> plaked: If you have other questions later, i am usually here on weekdays during work. I'm sure you can also find other knowledgable people here to help with specific questions or issues.
[19:25] <plaked> thank you so much genii
[19:25] <[Relic]> 16.10; I seem to be able to get nvidia to give me 2 xscreens, the mouse can go to the second screen and different wall paper, but can't seem to get the monitors to work independantly ever
[19:25] <genii> [Relic]: By xscreen, please clarify. More than one X session ?
[19:26] <genii> plaked: No problem
[19:26] <genii> work, afk
[19:27] <[Relic]> xscreen0 (one monitor) xscreen1 (other monitor) but sddm seems to create only 1 plasma interface and odd effects (click on one screen and the pop up creates in the other) if I don't just use xscreen0 for both monitors
[19:29] <[Relic]> basically I don't use the 2nd monitor much but want it there seperately controlled for when I need it; worked in 14.04; but not since 15.x have I ever been able to figure out how to do it again
[19:40] <[Relic]> I've looked at so many things about screen config, but can't see to figure out if there is any way to pull off 2 seperately functioning screens anymore
[19:40] <plaked>  l
[20:01] <dbrom> Hello all I am trying to use nomachine on 16.04 and it logs my computer out each time I try to use nomachine
[21:32] <Yaiyan> How do I reset the X settings?
[21:32] <Yaiyan> After trying to make my third screen actually work on KDE, I now get no more than a black screen on /any/ monitor if I try logging in
[21:33] <Yaiyan> CTRL ALT F1 brings up a terminal still, so that's pretty much all I can play with to try and fix this
[21:35] <Yaiyan> As an aside, is plasma still simply just to unstable for me to try and carry on using it with multiple displays like this?
[21:35] <Yaiyan> Seems like every single time I unsuspend then something decides to not work
[21:40] <teledyn> Yaiyan: you could try sudo dpkg-reconfigure -plow xserver-xorg
[21:41] <teledyn> Yaiyan: also if kscreen is causing issue you could try to stop it: sudo systemclt stop kscreen
[21:44] <Yaiyan> teledyn, I"m trying that right now, cheers
[21:45] <Yaiyan> teledyn, I can't try the latter command
[21:46] <teledyn> it might not be a service.
[21:46] <Yaiyan> After the first, I at least have a single display open; but I alt space doesn't work, neither does opening the menu (pressing on the K on the panel)
[21:46] <Yaiyan> hmm
[21:46] <teledyn> on one of my systems i just uninstalled kscreen
[21:47] <teledyn> try removing kscreen  i think that's similar to issue i had
[21:47] <teledyn> also look in /var/log/syslog to see if any error msg from kscreen
[21:49] <Yaiyan> Nah, no errors in that logfile at all
[21:49] <Yaiyan> At least, no recent ones
[22:01] <Yaiyan> Well, this has somehow started working now
[22:01] <Yaiyan> Unplugged two screens so I could open the nvidia settings
[22:47] <greenrun> Is VirtualBox stable on Kubuntu 16 or are there persistent issues?
[22:47] <valorie> works for me
[22:48] <greenrun> Which versions are running?
[22:49] <valorie> !vbox
[22:49] <valorie> !info virtualbox
[22:50] <valorie> I have the extension pack which lets you enlarge the window
[22:51] <greenrun> Thx!