[00:49] <elky> just dropped a heap of more-than-weeks-old dynamic ones. there will be more, but I'm at work.
[00:57] <IdleOne> removed some old bans also.
[01:18] <elky> There's lots from like May in there, and I don't know how long since the floodbot lists were scoured, but anything that doesn't have a stupid hostmask that the floodbots have booted before october can really go too
[01:23] <h00k> @login
[01:23] <h00k> @btlogin
[01:29] <h00k> Pici: are you around?
[01:29] <h00k> I want to remove some bans, I want to make sure I run this unban.sh properly ;)
[01:31] <h00k> yeah, I didn't.
[01:32] <h00k> anyone else use unban.sh?
[01:32] <h00k> I did it once.
[01:34] <IdleOne> never even heard of it
[01:35] <h00k> for irssi, unbanning a list of people
[03:23] <nhandler> h00k: Just do /bans to see a list of bans. Then '/unban 22 57 45' to remove bans 22, 57 and 45
[03:26] <h00k> nhandler: Pici has a nice shell script that works really easily, I tracked down my bans on the backtracker, I have them separated by line in a file, and unban.sh does it's magics
[03:27] <nhandler> h00k: So you have a list of the ban strings?
[03:28] <h00k> nhandler: http://paste.ubuntu.com/517167/
[03:28] <h00k> nhandler: yep
[03:28] <nhandler> h00k: If you have the ban strings, you can pass them to unban '/unban foo!*@* bar!*@* test!*@* *!*@gate/web/*'
[03:29] <h00k> that would work
[03:31] <nhandler> And that script has a lot of extra unnecessary code. If you try and adjust too many modes in one command, irssi will take care of splitting it up properly
[03:31] <h00k> yeah, that works. One day I'd like to remember how to use the unban.sh, but it's taken care of.
[03:31] <h00k> Thanks :)
[03:31]  * nhandler is also wondering why the irssi script is in bash and not perl
[03:32] <IdleOne> that same script could be used for xchat I assume?
[03:32] <nhandler> IdleOne: Probably. It just looks like it echos the commands to run, it doesn't actually run it (although I'm sure there is a way to have the clients execute STDOUT)
[03:33] <tonyyarusso> nhandler: Because some people like the non-melted parts of their brains
[03:33]  * nhandler slaps tonyyarusso around a bit
[03:33] <IdleOne> nhandler: could you write something for xchat that does the same as /bans in irssi?
[03:33]  * IdleOne hands nhandler a Narwhal to slap tonyyarusso with
[03:34] <tonyyarusso> Tusk fight!
[03:34] <nhandler> IdleOne: /bans doesn't do much, /unban is what you probably want
[03:34] <nhandler> You can get a list of bans fairly easily with /mode #channel +b
[03:35] <IdleOne> yeah I was hoping for something that can read the ban list, return only the bans set by me and then let me /unban #,#,#
[03:35] <tonyyarusso> IdleOne: That would be useless because Freenode splits so much, so everythings just set by some server.
[03:37] <IdleOne> or maybe a script that remembers locally the bans I set. I hate having to scroll the ban list lol
[03:37]  * IdleOne is looking for the easiest/laziest way out as possible
[03:39] <IdleOne> I think I just need to learn me perl
[03:41] <jrib> have your script fetch your bans from the ban tracker
[03:41] <IdleOne> jrib: I know no perl :(
[03:42]  * IdleOne needs to learn to script before scripting
[03:42] <jrib> IdleOne: if you know some sort of scripting it shouldn't be hard to learn enough perl to do it
[03:43] <IdleOne> you're gonna make me say it, aren't you?! OK I don't know any programming language
[03:43] <elky> ♪♫...narwhals narwhals swimming in the ocean, causing a commotion, 'cuz they are so awesome...♫♪
[03:43] <tonyyarusso> Just write it in a sane language like python, take all of the keywords out and replace them with curly braces, and put "my" and the beginning of every other line.  Voila, perl!
[03:43] <IdleOne> you made it so simple
[03:43] <IdleOne> thanks :)
[03:44] <jrib> ah well, a programming language is easy to learn if you have a project you are interested in imo.  Just start and don't be afraid of having ugly/bad code.  It's more important to just play and then improve it imo
[03:45] <jrib> irssi-python probably still works
[03:45] <jrib> or you could move on to weechat :)
[03:45] <jrib> then you could write it in C, perl, python, ruby, or tcl
[03:46] <IdleOne> xchat supports tcl also
[03:46] <IdleOne> I think
[03:47] <jrib> oh I assumed you used irssi because you wanted to learn perl :P
[03:47] <IdleOne> ok, what do you experts suggest for a first time language?
[03:47] <jrib> python
[03:47] <nhandler> jrib: You are 100% that the best way to learn is to have a project. I learned Perl probably 7 years ago when I made a chat bot for AOL Instant Messenger
[03:48] <IdleOne> I just shed a tear
[03:48] <IdleOne> nhandler: say it ain't so :(
[03:49] <nhandler> Sadly, it is. It was actually a very good learning project, as I got to learn about all the important features of Perl
[03:50] <IdleOne> Well I guess, my wanting/need of certain features is a good reason to learn
[03:52] <IdleOne> less features and more specific functionality catered to my want
[03:52] <IdleOne> s*
[07:56] <ikonia> looks like spaceghost found #debian-offtopic as his new #ubuntu-offtopic
[07:57] <Madpilot> lucky them
[07:57] <Madpilot> spaceghost... hasn't he been a years-long troll? the name rings bells far back in my skull
[07:59] <elky> ikonia, they can keep him
[07:59] <elky> they will, however, not give him the grace we did.
[08:08] <ikonia> they have a lot loser set of guidelines so it may work out for him
[08:09] <elky> not necessarily. "Being obnoxious" will fall foul really quickly.
[08:24] <ikonia> we'll see
[09:08] <rww> hola. see peyman in #ubuntu.
[09:11] <rww> alrighty, I guess I'll ping you all instead.
[09:12] <rww> jpds: thanks
[09:12] <jpds> Well, if hell is true, so is heaven.
[11:25] <elky> jpds, no, heaven is caek.
[11:35] <ikonia> I could use cake right now
[11:36] <jpds> ikonia: Indeed.
[11:45] <elky> griefcake!
[11:53] <jrib> cake isn't all that great
[11:53] <jrib> chocolate mousse is where it's at
[11:53] <elky> Tiramisu
[11:54]  * popey might have to make some cake in a cup
[12:07] <jussi> yeah, but the cake is a lie!
[12:46] <Pici> ikonia: puppet is lots to configure and landscape is commercial.
[12:46] <Pici> ikonia: unless I'm less familiar with puppet than I thought.
[12:47] <ikonia> Pici: puppet does have setup work involved sure, but setup work against non-functionaing product, there must be a tradeoff
[12:47] <ikonia> and I thought landscape had a free cut down version
[12:47] <Pici> h00k: still need me?
[12:48] <Pici> h00k: oh, read the sb.  Its ./unban.sh filethathasthehostmasks
[12:56]  * nhandler still finds /unban easier
[12:57] <Pici> I was using this originally for mass un-exempting.  I'd pull the +e list down, play around with grep and cut, and then have a nice set of mode commands that I could just paste back in irssi.
[12:58] <nhandler> Pici: Ah. Normally, I just go through the list and as I see hosts that need to be -e'ed, I add them to my /modeset command
[13:34] <gnomefreak> why didnt the floodbat tell us about the flood of users /quiting
[13:34] <gnomefreak> welcome bazhang :)
[13:38] <bazhang> ubuntu_<EMAIL_ADDRESS> looks like idoru took someone out who was flooding but not spamming (just in Russian is all) in #ubuntu
[13:44] <gnomefreak> what happened to me
[13:44] <jpds> gnomefreak: Very philosophical question.
[13:45] <gnomefreak> ok that was very odd
[13:45] <gnomefreak> i didnt lose a connection
[13:45] <jussi> [15:43:17] <-- gnomefreak76 (~gnomefrea@ubuntu/member/gnomefreak) has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[13:45] <gnomefreak> trust me apt would have hit me over the head if idid
[13:46] <gnomefreak> jussi: that would mean i changed my nick? since i only have been logged in under this name
[13:46] <jussi> gnomefreak: no idea, thats all I see here...
[13:47] <gnomefreak> could it be someone tried using that name and it auto gave me it?
[13:48] <gnomefreak> that was odd
[13:50] <elky> I dunno, I've had apt hang on during connection burps before
[13:52] <gnomefreak> 1 good think about natty is gcc4.5 is breaking xulrunner :)
[13:53] <gnomefreak> s/think/thing
[14:04] <gnomefreak> i think that was when i hit the wrong icon
[15:58] <Pici> maco: We really shouldn't be encouraging conversations about spam in #ubuntu, Its usually best to tell them that its already been handled.
[15:59] <maco> k taking it to pm
[15:59] <Pici> :)
[16:00] <IdleOne> Morning
[16:00] <Pici> ugh
[16:00] <Pici> IdleOne: hi
[16:01] <jpds> Hmm.
[16:09] <IdleOne> his client sucks at identifying and the channel is at fault
[16:09] <IdleOne> heh
[16:10] <Pici> Is 'kubuntu plasma netbook system' in Software Center kubuntu-desktop?
[16:10] <jussi> I dont think so
[16:11] <Pici> Someone else suggested that. :/
[16:11] <IdleOne> kubuntu-desktop is kubuntu-desktop
[16:12] <Pici> Whats this other thing then?
[16:12] <IdleOne> probably a mish mash of package names and confusion
[16:12] <IdleOne> maco: ^^
[16:13] <maco> kde-plasma-netbook is the plasma netbook package
[16:13] <Pici> Oh.  kubuntu-netbook - Kubuntu Plasma Netbook system
[16:13] <maco> though theres also kubuntu-netbook wihch should be transitional...
[16:13] <maco> and plasma-netbook
[16:13]  * Pici shrugs
[16:15] <Pici> I don't remember typing that.
[16:16] <jacekowski> i want to dispute recent actions of #ubuntu-uk op popey
[16:16] <jacekowski> he banned me for saying that i don't like him
[16:17] <IdleOne> jacekowski: You will have to take that up in #ubuntu-irc
[16:17] <jussi> right. popey, care to comment?
[16:17] <IdleOne> or here
[16:17] <jussi> IdleOne: lets do it here for now
[16:17] <IdleOne> okie
[16:17] <popey> I have warned jacekowski on numerous occasions about his attitude to supporting people in -uk
[16:17] <jussi> jacekowski: in future though, #ubuntu-irc is the places
[16:17] <jacekowski> jussi: ok
[16:18] <jussi> can someone point me to logs?
[16:18] <popey> he's been removed from the channel before now after being inappropriate and being deliberately unhelpful
[16:18] <jacekowski> popey: i copied and pasted ready answer
[16:18] <popey> http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/freenode/2010/10/21/%23ubuntu-uk.html
[16:18] <popey> you just told them to google
[16:19] <jacekowski> with ready search query
[16:19] <popey> and gave a phrase which results (for me at least) in an answer only appropriate for a release of Ubuntu 5 years ago
[16:19] <jacekowski> and later before you kicked me i copied and pasted ready answer
 ubuntu change splash -> google.com -> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1307450
[16:20] <popey> As I said, I've mentiond to you in the past that your attitude is often deliberately unhelpful
[16:20] <popey> 16:11:37 < jacekowski> i refuse to give him ready answer
[16:20] <popey> thats not the way we like to help people who come in asking for help
[16:20] <jacekowski> but i gave him search terms for google
[16:21] <jacekowski> little bit of initiative from his side should be expected
[16:21] <popey> which fail, as I pointed out, the search term you used resulted in a duff result.
[16:21] <jussi> hrm
[16:21] <popey> this is not the first time I've spoken to you about this kind of support
[16:22] <jacekowski> hmm, i just tried google.co.uk and result i pasted is still at 1st page
[16:22] <jussi> jacekowski: we have a guideline "when helping, be helpful". - have you read the guidelines yet?
[16:22] <jacekowski> jussi: yes
[16:23] <jussi> jacekowski: part of that is when giving support, you need to know that the support you give is helpful, or give a caveat that you found it in $place, and it may be incorrect.
[16:24] <jussi> jacekowski: it seems you have a history of not checking, which is a valid reason to ban.
[16:24] <jacekowski> jussi: i looked at it and it was correct on my google
[16:24] <jussi> jacekowski: correct on google, != correct.
[16:24] <jacekowski> jussi: it's always popey that has a problem, and it happened very often that many hours later i got a warning from him on query
[16:24] <jacekowski> for something i said hours before
[16:24] <jacekowski> like he's just picking on me
[16:25] <popey> I am not awake 24x7
[16:25] <popey> contrary to popular opinion
[16:25] <jacekowski> and reading all i said in past 24h
[16:25] <jussi> jacekowski: popeycannot be present every minute, and I applaud him for reading back and letting you know you were incorrect
[16:25] <popey> brb bio break
[16:25] <jacekowski> well, i don't belive he's reading hours worth of backlog
[16:25] <jussi> jacekowski: ops are taught to read back and check on how things are going
[16:25] <jussi> I do it, as do many others.
[16:25] <IdleOne> Also there is no time limit on breaking channel policy, it does not expire.
[16:26] <jacekowski> thing is that he's only op that told me anything
[16:26] <jacekowski> even that other ops were present at the time
[16:26] <IdleOne> well, that is something that popey might chose to discuss with the other channel ops.
[16:26]  * Daviey pipes in.... jacekowski, i have seen you be less than helpful in the past.  I haven't read the logs for this occasion
[16:27] <jussi> jacekowski: perhaps he is the only op with the rquired knowledge. however, the point is moot, as if you are consistently giving out poor advice, that needs to be sorted
[16:27] <Daviey> but it's not the first time you have been banned for similar
[16:27] <jacekowski> Daviey: only by popey
[16:27] <Daviey> jacekowski: popey often notices this before the rest of the ops, because he is the most active op in -uk.
[16:27] <Daviey> infact, most active person i believe.
[16:28] <jussi> jacekowski: the point remains, if you are giving out poor advice, this needs to be sorted.
[16:28] <popey> 16:25:36 < jacekowski> well, i don't belive he's reading hours worth of backlog
[16:28] <popey> for the record, I do
[16:28] <maco> so do i
[16:29] <jussi> Lets try keep this to the relevant people please.
[16:30] <popey> on the recent occasion when I warned you some hours after the last incident, I got absolutely no response whatsoever.
[16:30] <jussi> jacekowski: so in this case, the ban seems entirely correct. However, If you can show that you are willing to reconsider how you give advice, I am sure that popey and the other UK ops would reconsider your ban.
[16:30] <popey> on the time before that I asked if you'd change your attitude, and you were pretty evasive about doing anything to change you behaviour
[16:34] <jussi> jacekowski: So if you will, please take it up again with Daviey and popey and the other UK ops (in #ubuntu-irc) and if you still feel that the decision is wrong, take a look at !appeals
[16:35] <jussi> jacekowski: is there anything else you need from us?
[16:36] <jacekowski> not at the moment
[16:37] <jacekowski> thanks for a time
[16:41] <jussi> Hopefully that came across as fair and considered.
[16:42] <IdleOne> I think he may have left feeling the decision is still wrong.
[16:42] <IdleOne> doesn't mean it was
[16:43] <popey> thing is he does help some people who as deep technical questions about subjects he's interested in
[16:44] <popey> but in the next breath calls someone who replies to ubuntu bug reports with boilerplate text a "cunt"
[16:44] <Pici> jpds: you around?
[16:44] <jpds> Pici: Hey.
[16:45] <Pici> jpds: quidnunc in #ubuntu is asking about archive mirror rsync frequencies.  I suggested the +archivemirrors page, but hes looking for something more specific, is that information shared?
[16:45] <jpds> Pici: Completely depends on the mirror adm's decision.
[16:47] <jpds> Pici: Sorted.
[16:47] <Pici> jpds: Thanks!
[16:57] <IdleOne> I wonder what bit perlsyntax
[16:58] <Pici> He has a history of doing things like that.
[16:58] <IdleOne> oh I see
[16:58] <IdleOne> he didn't like the answer/help being given
[17:00] <jpds> IdleOne: Didn't we already ban that guy?
[17:01] <IdleOne> I +q earlier and talked a little with him
[17:01] <IdleOne> seems he forgot the message
[17:01] <IdleOne> now he is banned
[17:01] <Pici> Good.
[17:02] <IdleOne> I told him that sort of talk was unacceptable and he said he understood.
[17:02] <IdleOne> guess he didn't
[17:02] <jpds> Some people.
[17:03]  * topyli rolls eyes
[17:06] <IdleOne> 9.04 is EOL?
[17:06] <IdleOne> !9.04
[17:06] <IdleOne> need to update the factoid
[17:07] <Pici> On the 23rd iirc.
[17:07] <tsimpson_> 18 months is the non-LTS support period iirc
[17:08] <jussi> Jaunty eol... lovely
[17:08] <IdleOne> ubottu: 9.04 is Ubuntu 9.04 (Jaunty Jackalope) was the tenth release of Ubuntu. End Of Life: October 23, 2010. See !eol and !upgrade for more details.
[17:09] <IdleOne> see this is why I run +1 all the time. no worrying about eol
[17:09] <IdleOne> :)
[17:09] <Pici> !no jaunty is <reply> Ubuntu 9.04 (Jaunty Jackalope) was the tenth release of Ubuntu. End Of Life: October 23, 2010. See !eol and !upgrade for more details.
[17:10] <Pici> ( https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2010-September/000137.html )
[17:10] <popey> IdleOne: you on natty now!?
[17:10] <IdleOne> yup
[17:10] <IdleOne> since the 14th
[17:10] <popey> crikey, I am never that brave/foolhardy
[17:10] <popey> :)
[17:10] <IdleOne> night before the email went out :P
[17:11] <IdleOne> did the same with maverick
[17:13] <popey> Octohedra in #u ?
[17:13] <popey> gone
[17:21] <IdleOne> !guidelines > Octohedra
[17:21] <Pici> good catch
[17:22] <IdleOne> thank you. I noticed that keeping my eyes open is a lot more effective
[17:28] <MichealH> Hi I have noticed that in #x the topic is: The topic for #xubuntu is: topic
[17:28] <MichealH> Is it intentional?
[17:28] <charlie-tca> #x
[17:29] <MichealH> #xubuntu
[17:29] <ikonia> it's not :topic
[17:29] <charlie-tca> something is wrong with your client, then. the topic is bigger than that
[17:29] <ikonia> its was set on the 11th october and is a complete topic
[17:29] <MichealH> I know that was a example
[17:29] <ikonia> what was an example
[17:29] <MichealH> the topic
[17:30] <MichealH> It really shows up al
[17:30] <ikonia> MichealH: what is the problem you are reporting ?
[17:30] <MichealH> One sec
[17:30] <charlie-tca> I show it to be 4 lines in Xchat
[17:30] <ikonia> #join #xubuntu
[17:30] <ikonia> oops
[17:30] <MichealH> 16:30 -!- Topic for #xubuntu: Topic for #xubuntu is: Official Xubuntu Support Channel | Xubuntu 10.10 is out! http://xubuntu.org/news/10.10-release Download, Share it, Seed it!
[17:30] <MichealH>           Please read the release notes at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/MaverickMeerkat/Final | Pastes to http://paste.ubuntu.com | Offtopic: #xubuntu-offtopic | Regular
[17:30] <MichealH>           helpers: #ubuntu-irc-helpers
[17:30] <MichealH> That the issue
[17:30] <ikonia> MichealH: then there is a problem with your client
[17:30] <ikonia> MichealH: stretch the window
[17:31] <MichealH> I used /topic?
[17:31] <MichealH> Its irssi also.
[17:31] <ikonia> so?
[17:31] <ikonia> it's not
[17:31] <ikonia> MichealH: what client are you using
[17:31] <ikonia> I'm using irssi
[17:31] <ikonia> and it formats fine
[17:31] <popey> looks fine in irssi here
[17:31] <ikonia> MichealH: try expanding the size of your windows
[17:31] <ikonia> MichealH: make them a little bigger to allow you to display formatting better
[17:31] <charlie-tca> looks right in xchat, too
[17:32] <knome> fixed.
[17:32] <MichealH> See how it says "Topic for #xubuntu: Topic for #xubuntu is:"
[17:32] <knome> topic started with "Topic for #xubuntu is"
[17:32] <MichealH> Thanks knome
[17:32] <knome> no problem.
[17:32] <MichealH> Anyway... See you!
[17:32] <ikonia> what's wrong with the word The topic for xubuntu is?
[17:33] <ikonia> why is that a problem ?
[17:33] <knome> ikonia, that read in the topic
[17:33]  * charlie-tca shrugs
[17:33] <ikonia> knome: sorry, I'm not seeing it
[17:33] <knome> ikonia, i fixed it already
[17:33] <ikonia> knome: no, I'm looking at charlie-tca topic and it reads finr
[17:33] <ikonia> fine
[17:34] <ikonia> "the topic for Xubuntu is blah blah blah"
[17:34] <ikonia> rather than just "blah blah blah"
[17:34] <ikonia> not a problem
[17:34] <ikonia> it's just words
[17:34] <popey> :)
[17:35] <knome> well, imo it's better that there is no useless words in the beginning of the topic, just because eg. irssi windows are usually small
[17:36] <ikonia> dreamtraveler: hi there, how can we help
[17:36] <dreamtraveler> i am not in need of something
[17:37] <dreamtraveler> reboot:p
[17:37] <IdleOne> dreamtraveler: Can you please part the channel in that case. There is a no idleing rule here
[17:37] <IdleOne> idling*
[17:39] <MichealH> Also What do does this topic mean by IRCC nominations?
[17:39] <ikonia> nominations for the IRCC community council
[17:39] <MichealH> Okay
[17:40] <MichealH> I will see the ML
[17:40] <MichealH> See you!
[17:40] <ikonia> ?
[17:40] <ikonia> $1000000 says he nominate himself
[17:40] <knome> nominating himself is allowed.
[17:40] <ikonia> didn't say it wasn't
[17:41] <ikonia> just betting $1000000 he does
[17:41] <ikonia> any takes ?
[17:41] <IdleOne> and he will get a nicely worded email explaining why he is not yet qualified.
[17:41]  * charlie-tca thinks ikonia is correct
[17:42] <IdleOne> do you have $1000000?
[17:42] <ikonia> it's a safe bet
[17:42] <knome> is it really our business to think about if he does or not?
[17:42] <IdleOne> if you do, can I be your son :)
[17:42] <ikonia> knome: I'm allowed to comment
[17:42] <IdleOne> knome: not really
[17:42] <ikonia> the nominations are open, so yes, it is anyones business
[17:43] <ikonia> if you want I'll move my comments on it to #ubuntu-offtopic
[17:43] <knome> ikonia, sorry to say, but i'm not sensing a very positive tone on the comments
[17:43] <ikonia> it's not positive
[17:43] <knome> so it's okay to throw negative comments about people in the ops channel?
[17:44] <ikonia> no, it's ok to say I think he's going to nominate himself, and I don't think that is a good thing
[17:44] <knome> does that leave the ops neutral regarding future bans and issues?
[17:44] <ikonia> not being a good candidate for the council doesn't effect any judgment on bans
[17:44] <ikonia> if you want I'll discuss this in #ubuntu-offtopic
[17:45] <knome> this is not really about the nominations stuff.
[17:45] <ikonia> I felt it appropriate in here as the operators have an interest in who applies and suceeds on the application
[17:45] <ikonia> knome: what is it about then ?
[17:45] <IdleOne> asked neurochrome in PM to keep the language family friendly. he agreed without issue.
[17:46] <knome> ikonia, about the negative tone of the comments ops throw about people who leave the channel
[17:46] <ikonia> ok, I'll make myself crystal clear
[17:47] <ikonia> I think michaelh would be a poor nomination to the IRC community council, and I think it would be unwise for him to nominiate himself, but I believe he will anyway
[17:47] <jussi> what is this IRC community council you are all on about?
[17:47] <jussi> ikonia: everybody is free to apply though ;)
[17:47] <IdleOne> jussi: nothing for you to worry your pretty little head about :P
[17:48] <ikonia> jussi: exactly, just as everyone is free to comment
[17:48] <jussi> IRC Council last time I checked ;)
[17:48] <ikonia> however, if the operators channel is not appropriate I will take it to #ubuntu-offtopic
[17:48] <knome> ikonia, nvm.
[17:49] <jussi> ikonia: however it likely reflects badly on us if we have lots of negative comments in here
[17:49] <ikonia> knome: not at all, heaven forbid I have an opinion on the subject based on my experiences with the user
[17:49] <ikonia> jussi: don't talk nosnese
[17:49] <ikonia> my individual opinions do not reflect bad on the channel
[17:49] <ikonia> if you feel it does I'll discuss this in #ubuntu-offtopic
[17:49] <knome> jussi, exactly what i was thinking.
[17:50] <jussi> ikonia: that may be more appropriate.
[17:51] <ikonia> jussi: ok - then lets remove all negative views about any users situation from the channel
[17:51] <ikonia> jussi: and you can rest assured, I'll be watching
[17:53] <ikonia> and the same goes for any positive comments, as that can be seen as favourtism
[17:54] <knome> imo if the negative or positive comments is relevant to resolving an issue, that's fine, but if it's thrown after the user left the channel just out of pure annoyance or whatever, it's really unnecessary
[17:55] <knome> s/comments/comment/
[17:55] <ikonia> knome: you can sleep easy - I'll make sure I say it to the users face next time
[17:56] <ikonia> but I'll also not do it in this channel
[17:56] <ikonia> lets keep it for official business only
[17:57] <knome> oh well..
[17:58] <ikonia> knome: I'm curious, would you have comaplined if I said I hope michael applies to the IRCC I think he'd be a good edition ?
[17:59] <knome> no, because i don't think trying to create a positive athmosphere would be bad.
[17:59] <ikonia> why is ok to publicly support someone, but not publicly say not good
[18:00] <ikonia> that is showing a bias for bans in the future as your initial comment claimed
[18:00] <ikonia> eg: I favour him
[18:00] <knome> well again, i am not talking about the IRCC nominations but negative comments/tone in the channel generally
[18:00] <ikonia> but postive ones are gine ?#
[18:00] <ikonia> fine ?
[18:01] <knome> do you think trying to keep the mood cheerful is bad?
[18:01] <ikonia> cheerful isn't what I you complained about
[18:01] <ikonia> you said it showed a bias
[18:02] <knome> please.
[18:02] <ikonia> (bad typing there)
[18:02] <ikonia> ?
[18:02] <ikonia> please what
[18:02] <knome> it's not about the nominations
[18:02] <ikonia> err it was
[18:02] <knome> no.
[18:02] <ikonia> that's why I said $10000 he nominates himself
[18:02] <knome> i was, and am talking about the negative tones of the comments about users after they've left the channel
[18:03] <knome> not about nominations
[18:03] <ikonia> yes, about his potential nomination
[18:03] <ikonia> I believe it would be a negative thing if he nominated himself
[18:03] <tsimpson_> can we stop this now please?
[18:03] <knome> as you don't seem to understand what i'm trying to say, please let's stop it
[18:04] <ikonia> tsimpson_: why ? it's discussion about how to use this channel
[18:04] <IdleOne> ikonia: why do you think it would be a negative thing if he nominated himself?
[18:04] <ikonia> IdleOne: because he has a poor understanding of irc and ubuntu in general, he's young and too eager to make decisions off the fly
[18:04] <knome> tsimpson_, i suppose there isn't #ubuntu-ops-offtopic :)
[18:05] <tsimpson_> there is /msg ;)
[18:05] <ikonia> tsimpson_: publicly logged and transparant
[18:05] <knome> tsimpson_, too bad irc does not support 2+ user /msg's
[18:06] <IdleOne> ikonia: his lack of experience would be a major obstacle to getting voted in I agree but the feedback he gets from the CC would be positive I would hope.
[18:06] <seeker> And ops can't create a private channel to discuss stuff together in, otherwise it isn't transparent
[18:06] <ikonia> IdleOne: I agree, but hopefully realistic rather than wrapped in sunshine
[18:06] <tsimpson_> then the mailing list would be a more appropriate medium
[18:06] <seeker> And who knows what sort of comments we might make in there about users!
[18:06] <ikonia> tsimpson_: why ?
[18:07] <ikonia> tsimpson_: (genuinly)
[18:07] <IdleOne> ikonia: I would hope so also.
[18:07] <IdleOne> anyway I strayed from the subject
[18:07] <ikonia> IdleOne: it's a valid question,
[18:08] <tsimpson_> ikonia: just because -ops is mostly for admining the channels, if we are discussing the purpose of -ops, it's probably better to not have it in -ops
[18:08] <seeker> tsimpson_: There is Boone needing support right now, and it is a matter pertaining to -ops
[18:08] <ikonia> tsimpson_: it's discussing -ops behaviour
[18:08] <seeker> *Boone
[18:08] <seeker> Gag
[18:08] <seeker> *noone
[18:08] <seeker> *gah
[18:08] <tsimpson_> ikonia: yeah, that would probably be better on the ML
[18:08] <ikonia> fair enough
[18:09] <tsimpson_> more people get to read/reply than right here
[18:09] <tsimpson_> and it feel more of an "offical" comment when sent to the ML
[18:09] <seeker> All Ikonia said was " I bet $XXX that he nominates himself"
[18:10] <seeker> He didn't make any comments about his thoughts on that until he was asked about it
[18:10]  * tsimpson_ is not taking sides and doesn't have the full backlog
[18:10] <ikonia> no sides needed, it's just a difference of opinion
[18:10] <tsimpson_> give me an hour for irclogs.u.c to update and I'll comment ;)
[18:11] <seeker> And I agree in the assessment that he would be likely to nominate himself
[18:12] <seeker> It was knome that stated that we shouldn't discuss who nonminates themselves (which I disagree with - it is important to the running of this channel)
[18:12] <knome> seeker, incorrect.
[18:13] <knome> seeker, once again, i was not talking about nominations.
[18:13] <knome> as i seem to be misunderstood here tonight, i'll just shut my mouth.
[18:20] <ikonia> knome: nope, you're bang on, I fully take the point your making, so it's not lost on my, I just disagree with it
[18:21] <seeker> Sorry, my phone battery died
[18:22] <knome> ikonia, sorry if you feel like it was an attack towards you - definitely was not - but really, unnecessary negative comments about users, even if they were long-time banned are imo not really acceptable.
[18:22] <ikonia> lost on "me"
[18:23] <ikonia> knome: I take the point, but if you live by that, then you can't make positive comments about users either
[18:23] <ikonia> I find it better to be personally honest, but that doesn't mean it effects judgment
[18:23] <ikonia> I still hold the views I hold even if I say them outloud or not
[18:24] <knome> ikonia, i partly agree. this is about more than just what happened today - calling people names etc.
[18:24] <seeker> Whether or not we here in -ops like someone has little beating
[18:24] <ikonia> I didn't call anyone a name
[18:24] <knome> ikonia, you didn't.
[18:24] <seeker> *bearing on whether they are banned/unbanned
[18:24] <ikonia> knome: ooh, good, I thought you where suggesting I had then, if so I'd totally missed the part where I called someone a name
[18:24] <knome> ikonia, i didn't say you did, but calling people names is not nonexistent
[18:24] <ikonia> what is the name calling all abou t?
[18:25] <knome> umm
[18:25] <ikonia> ooh, I see what your saying
[18:25] <ikonia> never mind, re-read what you said
[18:25] <knome> i mean, calling people names happen
[18:25] <ikonia> does it ?
[18:25] <ikonia> I've not seen that beyond things like " a known troll "
[18:25] <seeker> knome: Examples?
[18:25] <ikonia> or that sort of thing
[18:25] <knome> 10:17 +Flannel: freaking idiot.
[18:25] <knome> 12:41 +ikonia: being an idiot in #freenode too
[18:25] <knome> from my lastlog
[18:26] <knome> just the two last comments with "idiot"
[18:26] <ikonia> ok, so I'll make sure I'll say "idiotic behaviour in freenode also"
[18:26] <seeker> Not really insults
[18:26] <ikonia> thats fine, if saying someone is being an idiot is unacceptable, then that stops
[18:26] <seeker> You generally find people behaving idiotically on irc,
[18:27] <knome> seeker, would you feel neutral if someone said you're an idiot?
[18:27] <seeker> Or there wouldn't be a need for this channel
[18:27] <seeker> "feel natural"?
[18:27] <ikonia> if you where behaving like one flooding the channel with spam/insults, then yes, I'd feel ok
[18:27]  * maco tosses in http://disabledfeminists.com/2009/10/11/ableist-word-profile-idiot/
[18:27] <knome> seeker, neutral i said
[18:27] <seeker> Sorry, on a phone
[18:28] <Pici> Words change meaning.
[18:28] <seeker> They are entitled to their opinion
[18:28] <IdleOne> seeker: neutral as in no feelings about being called an idiot
[18:28] <Pici> But thats neither here nor there.
[18:28] <seeker> Like I said, they are
[18:29] <knome> it's not really about the words, it's about the tone. i agree it's bad to just take some examples from lastlog, but the audience wanted examples
[18:29] <seeker> Entitled to their opinion. I may not go out of my way to help them
[18:29] <seeker> But I won't ban for it on it's own
[18:29] <ikonia> knome: so all you would like to see is "that user is also being a problem in #freenode too" rather than "they are being idiots in #freenode too"
[18:29] <seeker> See paladine in -uk for an example
[18:30] <knome> ikonia, don't you think the former has a better/more neutral tone in it's comment?
[18:31] <maco> i agree with knome
[18:31] <ikonia> knome: if I had said something like "they are being dick heads in #freenode too" I would totally agreee, however behaving like idiots, when they are I don't see a problem with
[18:31] <ikonia> knome: but if thats something you feel passionatly about, I'm happy to make sure the word idiots is not used
[18:32] <ikonia> (and other similar examples)
[18:32] <knome> ikonia, sounds good :)
[18:32] <knome> it's hard to catch exact tones in irc
[18:32] <knome> so better to use neutral words if possible
[18:33] <ikonia> it's not, you caught both the inteded ones I used - yes, I think they are behaving like idiots (negative) and I bet $100000 he applies (negative) you saw them just fine, as they where intended
[18:33] <knome> ok, let's say that sometimes it's hard to catch them ;)
[20:41] <jussi> ikonia: you about?


[10:03] <NerdTheThird> hey, can anyone tell me what's the default font in xubuntu? i fucked something up
[10:20] <ondondil> Noto Sans
[10:47] <NerdTheThird> tnx
[12:43] <odanoburu> hi! what's the best way to swap the Ctrl and Caps Lock keys in xubuntu 18.04?
[19:54] <Kangarooo> where to find Xubuntu core how looks when installed? Here mentioned fisrt time i hear such and youtube not showing 18.04 video. https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2391262&p=13765487#post13765487
[19:54] <Kangarooo> Wanted to see video how install goes and how it all looks. https://xubuntu.org/news/introducing-xubuntu-core/
[20:04] <kangarooo> i got internet off for second and didnt see if got answer


[00:03] <Dienonymous> In my channel please do not want intruders or people that cause me problems I have ideas and conversations to talk if I pass the link ern my channel grateful
[00:11] <Dienonymous> Censorship and freedom of expression do not have laws here look that is condemnable and discrimination but I do not want to confuse a kind request with supplication
[00:17] <Dienonymous> Look that laws are egalitarian
[00:20] <Dienonymous> I do not want a problem but do not believe that having an operating system irc or chat or software will escape the laws censorship and discrimination are already coming far
[00:23] <Dienonymous> Remember I am in a problematic and the people must find out who scensuran the town
[00:29] <Dienonymous> I do not seek to involve everyone but those who before a judge should express their problem with a mentally disabled and as they are the operative system they have my ip and you can easily find out that I am not joking I have to make a trial barely covers the money and I do not I would like to siten to a fair if we go to dog face can stop committing crimes
[00:55] <Dienonymous> Greetings new mind could tell me where I can get the link to my channel for friends
[01:15] <Dienonymous> si mis amigos los 0+0 discriminados
[02:23] <Dienonymous> LINUXMINT WILL HAVE TO INTRODUCE ITS HEADS AND OWNERS TO AN APPLICATION FOR DISCRIMINATION TO A DISABLED PERSON WITH MY LEGAL DEFENDER AND MY PROTECTIVE COURT AND MY PROTECTIVE ATTORNEY
[02:50] <ozzo> hi all
[02:50] <ozzo> i am newbie in ubuntu pleace teach me
[02:51] <ozzo> how i can serch all chanell in irc
[13:15] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[13:18] <AceKing> Hi BluesKaj
[13:19] <AceKing> Quick question. I hope... LOL I have a secondary hard drive in my PC. For some reason I can't save, or move files to that drive. I get a "Cannot write to" error. How can I fix that?
[13:21] <BluesKaj> AceKing, do you have the drive's UUID entry listed in /etc/fstab?
[13:22] <BluesKaj> AceKing, run lasblk to see the drives on tour system then run sudo blkid to see their UUID identifiers
[13:23] <BluesKaj> lsblk, eather
[13:23] <AceKing> BluesKaj: OK
[13:25] <AceKing> BluesKaj: OK, I do see it
[13:31] <AceKing> BluesKaj: I have the UUID Identifier
[13:31] <BluesKaj> copy the UUID with long string of numbers and letter to /etc/fstab with as kdesudo kate in the run command , leave out the quotes, then give the drive a path like /media/your username or some such , use the spacebar tp move across the entry use the same entry settings as your /home or / dir
[13:32] <AceKing> BluesKaj: Thank you!
[13:33] <BluesKaj> AceKing, it should look something like this: UUID=f35ea143-55cd-497d-8a4e-4fcd255dd4f3 /media/kaj      ext4    defaults       0      2
[13:33] <AceKing> BluesKaj: OK
[13:35] <BluesKaj> you'll need to reboot
[18:06] <jubo2> y0
[18:06] <jubo2> I'm experiencing some problems with K16.10
[18:08] <jubo2> I had to boot to Win10 to fix an NTFS formatted USB3.0 stick, sometimes the system freezes except cursor motion, FireFox not opening up all the windows of the previous session and such
[18:08] <jubo2> the freeze is temporary and the system does the clicks and focuses and such in rapid succession once freeze is over
[18:09] <jubo2> If I need to keep on recreating my 2nd FF window every now and then that is really annoying
[18:10] <jubo2> in K16.04 it would just say "Ooops. This is embarracing. Failed to close all windows. Restore?" to which I always answer yes and thus have my both browser windows that I need to do my stuff
[18:11] <jubo2> So .. wait for bugfixes or move back to K16.04? Opinions, advice, anyone?
[18:20] <BluesKaj> jubo2, you don't need to use windows to fix ntfs , you can use gparted check to do that
[18:24] <jubo2> History -> Recently Closed Windows got the FF window back *WHEEW*
[18:25] <jubo2> BluesKaj: Before fixing it with booting to windows, inserting the USB card, it autodetects there is a problem and asks me if I want it fixed
[18:25] <jubo2> BluesKaj: In Kubuntu16.10 it would just show 30GB empty space, no files, no nothing
[18:25] <jubo2> now it runs fine
[18:26] <jubo2> I got 2 of these Leef sticks.. they were suspiciously cheap
[18:51] <beerbbqman> Kubuntu 16.10 new install from 16.04, NO WIFI, tried dozens of internet konsole commands, still not turning on wlp3s0, using BCM 43142
[19:08] <Elsni> Hi, I have a stringe problem on kubuntu with second screen. The loading bar stays on the second screen after log in. I can drag a window to the screen but the background does not get updated so I can "paint" the whole background with the window when dragging. Compositor is disabled. How can I start to solve this problem?
[20:34] <gaetano> hello
[20:52] <AnthonyMalczanek> Hello! I'd like to disable automatic updates and desktop indexing. I can no longer find the option for the former (even with Google's help), and would like to know if there's a better way to do it than manually murdering the indexer. Also, is KMail any better these days? Opinions welcome.
[22:23] <efeciftci> AnthonyMalczanek: you should be able to disable automatic updates by executing "kdesudo software-properties-kde" and changing the settings in updates tab
[22:24] <efeciftci> and for file indexer, the option is available at system settings -> search -> file search
[22:24] <AnthonyMalczanek> Thank you!
[22:24] <efeciftci> you're welcome :)
[22:25] <AnthonyMalczanek> is there a good way to find software-properties-kde through the GUI?
[22:26] <efeciftci> well if it is installed, muon package manager has it in the menus
[22:26] <AnthonyMalczanek> what happened to muon being default-installed?
[22:26] <efeciftci> plasma discover has it as well
[22:27] <AnthonyMalczanek> nope
[22:27] <AnthonyMalczanek> what happened to Muon Discover?
[22:28] <efeciftci> I don't know, I can't follow with the package managers anymore :) I've seen so many in 8-9 years... kpackagekit, apper, muon... now plasma discover...
[22:29] <efeciftci> "apt-cache search muon" ----> muon-discover - Transitional package (muon-discover -> plasma-discover)
[22:30] <AnthonyMalczanek> lol
[22:30] <AnthonyMalczanek> thank you, again!


[15:55] <Sven__> Hi Folks, happy new year
[15:57] <Sven__> I don't get audacity to start up. It hangs on startup. Can somebody help to debug and solve the problem?
[20:18] <Saynos> hi :)
[21:01] <Saynos> bye


[00:46] <RetardedOnion> Hi there! I couldn't find a list of changes of Ubuntu-Kernel vs Mainline. Is there a list for someone who is not interested in studying the source?
[07:10] <apw> RetardedOnion (N,BFTL), that info is most broadly represented in the changelog for the package
[18:29] <s10gopal> jsalisbury, can i test the SRU ?
[18:32] <jsalisbury> s10gopal, I'll check if the fix made it to proposed yet.
[18:33] <jsalisbury> s10gopal, so the fix is now in proposed.  The bug will automatically get updated asking you to test.
[18:34] <jsalisbury> s10gopal, however, it you want to test before you can enabled -proposed
[18:34] <jsalisbury> s10gopal, let me get a link to show you how to do that.
[18:34] <jsalisbury> s10gopal, See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/EnableProposed for documentation how to enable and use -proposed.
[18:43] <s10gopal> jsalisbury, what is the package name to test ?
[18:44] <jsalisbury> s10gopal, the kernel, so linux-image-generic
[18:47] <s10gopal> jsalisbury, http://kernel.ubuntu.com/sru/kernel-sru-workflow.html dont have any package named linux-image-generic
[18:48] <jsalisbury> s10gopal, I wouldn't use that web page.  Use the page I posted to enable -proposed or follow the testing request comment when it's added to the bug.
[18:49] <s10gopal> jsalisbury, i have enabled -proposed
[18:49] <jsalisbury> s10gopal, great, so now just update the kernel and reboot.
[18:49] <jsalisbury> s10gopal, you shoudl get kernel version:
[18:50] <jsalisbury> s10gopal,  4.15.0-23.25 for bionic
[18:50] <jsalisbury> s10gopal, or 4.13.0-44.49 for artful
[19:03] <s10gopal> jsalisbury, no update  available
[19:04] <jsalisbury> s10gopal, Oh, it looks like that kernel hasn't been promoted to proposed yet.  You just have to wait a little longer.
[19:05] <jsalisbury> s10gopal, You should get an update in the bug when it's ready for testing.


[09:39] -queuebot:#edubuntu- Builds: Edubuntu Desktop amd64 [Lunar Beta] has been updated (20230329)


[09:35] <Fudge> amoma  what do you mean
[18:24] <robotfuel> is there a list of accessibility packages installed by default?
[23:37] <Fudge> robotfuel  such as speech dispatcher gnome orca etc?
[23:37] <robotfuel> yes
[23:37] <robotfuel> Fudge: ^
[23:38] <Fudge> well yes they are installed out of the box
[23:38] <Fudge> are you new to ubuntu
[23:39] <robotfuel> no I want to know what they are so I have a list. I want to make sure I haven't missed any.
[23:41] <Fudge> by default you would probably have to ask themuso or AlanBell
[23:41] <Fudge> let me think though, speakup modules are in the kernel, orca is part of ubuntu-desktop meta package
[23:41] <Fudge> check ubuntu-desktop apt-cache show
[23:43] <robotfuel> If I start with this https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Core, I want to make sure that all the default accessibility  apps are added back in.
[23:56] <Fudge> for a project robotfuel ?
[23:57] <robotfuel> yes
[23:58] <Fudge> there wont be any accessibility support in core I doubt
[23:59] <Fudge> you would need to more than likely figure out your target audience and decide on a desktop from that


[19:44] <bkerensa> https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~music-app-dev/music-app/trunk/view/head:/tests/autopilot/music_app/tests/test_music.py
[19:44] <bkerensa> :s
[23:13] <slangasek> blkperl, nibalizer: so it seems that we've been having a hard time getting Tamarack's attention through the facilities / SHC side of PSU... can CAT help us get his attention, so kees can talk to him about network requirements for DebConf next year? :)
[23:22] <nibalizer> unsure, that would be a blkperl question
[23:22] <nibalizer> dave (our network guy) has a pretty good relationship with tamarark tho
[23:27] <slangasek> hmm, well
[23:27] <slangasek> is he on IRC? :)
[23:46] <kees> nibalizer: any foot hold would be nice :)
[23:53]  * shirgall is glad he hardly ever said anything online when he worked for Canonical, since people love taking things outa context lately


[00:11] <cjwatson> ^- kexec-tools is on the Kubuntu DVD (no other images, according to seeded-in-ubuntu), but that's awaiting the python2.7 fix, and this is the right fix for one of the entries on http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/testing/precise_outdate_all.txt with no run-time source change; can we squeeze this in?
[00:24] <slangasek> makes sense to me
[00:25] <skaet> cjwatson, ok,  we've got the window and its low impact.
[00:25] <skaet> s/impact/risk/
[00:27] <slangasek> accepted
[00:43] <skaet> hggdh, slangasek - looks like i386 and amd64 have published for https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python2.7/2.7.3-0ubuntu3.
[00:43] <skaet> hggdh, can we trigger the autotesting off, without waiting for the built in delay?
[00:44] <slangasek> that was the intent, yes
[00:49] <doko_> slangasek, pong (for 15min online)
[00:50] <slangasek> doko_: hey - the python2.7 change was never tested for oneiric->precise upgrades, there was a critical regression there
[00:50] <slangasek> doko_: I've sorted it in the archive (I think), you'll want to pick up the changes from their for your bzr branch
[00:50] <doko_> ouch, looking
[00:51] <slangasek> doko_: as a general rule, please don't use Conflicts in essential packages - this kind of problem is exactly what you get :)
[00:52] <doko_> slangasek, yeah, we discussed that on the channel, and didn't want the circlular dependency. and just a breaks wouldn't help
[00:58] <slangasek> Conflicts are almost universally worse than circular deps
[00:59] <slangasek> in this case, we probably could have kept the Conflicts with a lower version number that didn't break o->p
[00:59] <slangasek> (and if any problems show up with the circular deps, that'll be my next step)
[00:59] <doko_> right, not conflicting with the oneiric version sounds much better
[01:01] <doko_> anyway, afk now, will check updates from lucide and from oeneiric tomorrow
[01:02] <slangasek> ok - the QA team will also be testing that out ASAP
[01:02] <slangasek> so there's probably no need for you to worry about it
[01:02] <slangasek> anyway - g'night :)
[01:26] <cjwatson> slangasek: do you think the qemu-linaro/powerpc build failure might be fixable by release?  it last built in only the previous upload, and its effects on precise_outdate_all are a little tricky to unwind with simple removals since there are some dependencies on its binaries
[01:51] <slangasek> cjwatson: last time I looked at the build failure there, I couldn't work out how to fix it
[01:51] <ScottK> Is netbook a seed we need to worry about for accepting packages (I'm guessing it's obsolete, but someone please tell me)?
[01:51] <GridCube> im having an issue with today's release and i dont know if its a bug or not, if starting a sentence with sudo on a terminal, when trying to tab to complete the options, like with sudo apt-get i[tab] doesnt do anything, it used to complete the install, and then when writing the first letters of package, say exa[tab] doesnt complete exaile, or even gives option
[01:51] <GridCube> it looks like tab to complete is broken to me
[01:51] <GridCube> :/
[01:53] <ScottK> GridCube: Try in #ubuntu-testing or #ubuntu+1.
[01:53] <GridCube> ok
[01:53] <ScottK> infinity: What do you think about syncing csound for http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=661197
[01:53] <ubot2> Debian bug 661197 in csound "multiple vulnerabilities in csound" [Grave,Fixed]
[02:00] <slangasek> ScottK: netbook is obsolete TTBOMK
[02:07] <ScottK> slangasek: Thanks.
[02:18] <ScottK> AIUI, the security team declined to support cobbler in Main, which is why maas-provision exists (to be the supported subset of cobbler in Main so maas can be in Main).  The upload that fixes the dependencies so cobbler can go back to Universe is in the queue, but the diff is (due to other reasons) not insignificant.
[02:18] <ScottK> I think someone (not me) should either review the diff or we should reject it and ask for one that just does the dependency swap.
[02:30] <skaet> ScottK,  ^ that was an error that proved I got the syntax wrong on some timing runs I was doing and didn't want to publish.   I'll revert it manually to the earlier image.
[02:31] <hggdh> skaet, slangasek: testing upgrade from Lucid to Precise, AMD64, server
[02:32] <ScottK> skaet: OK.  I hope I just downloaded the right one.
[02:33] <ScottK> skaet: There's no testing on the current images, so it doesn't hurt to switch to a different one.
[02:33] <skaet> unless you can download in 3 minutes,  I think you're safe.  :0
[02:33] <hggdh> skaet, slangasek: this run (server) should take less than 20 min
[02:33] <skaet> :)
[02:33] <ScottK> I got 20120420.1
[02:34] <skaet> ScottK,  yup that's the one I'll revert the tracker back to so you can record results against the right image
[02:36] <skaet> hggdh,   Thanks for the estimate.  :)   we'll also need Lucid to Precise, desktop;   Oneiric to Precise, server;   Oneiric to Precise, desktop upgrade runs done as well.
[02:36] <skaet> can they be started in parallel?
[02:39] <hggdh> skaet: I started with (lucid|oneiric)->precise, server. If these pass, then I will start the others. It will delay just around 20min the full results, but it does not make sense to start all at the same time (not enough resources)
[02:40] <skaet> hggdh,  coolio.  Makes sense.  Thanks!  :)
[02:40] <hggdh> skaet: YW
[02:47] <skaet> ScottK,  which upload are you commenting on in unapproved?    maas?
[02:47] <ScottK> skaet: mass
[02:47] <ScottK> err maas
[02:47] <skaet> Daviey's agreed to review it.
[02:48] <ScottK> It seems like we're kind of running out of time.
[02:48] <skaet> however he's been traveling - so as soon as he surfaces, it should get resolved.
[02:48] <ScottK> I'd suggest you set a deadline after which we just swap the dependencies and they can do the other stuff in an SRU if they want.
[02:49] <ScottK> Does stuff in the ubuntu-server: daily seed end up on the server ISO?
[02:49] <ScottK> Because maas is seeded in that seed.
[02:50] <skaet> ScottK,  it needs to be resolved by Monday morning.
[02:50] <skaet> hmm.  Let me go check what's in the latest published image...
[02:51] <ScottK> BBIAB, need to reboot into a live session with this machine.
[02:53] <skaet> ScottK,  yes it does.
[02:54] <skaet> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-server/daily/20120419/precise-server-amd64.list
[02:54] <hggdh> skaet: oneiric-precise, server upgrade successful
[02:55] <skaet> \o/
[02:55] <hggdh> skaet: lucid-precise, server, AMD64 successful, i386 still going
[02:55] <skaet> :)
[02:56] <skaet> in the .list file is /pool/main/m/maas/maas_0.1+bzr462+dfsg-0ubuntu1_all.deb
[02:56] <skaet> ScottK, ^
[02:57] <hggdh> I will bite the bullet, and start the desktop upgrades; oneiric-precise takes ~ 20 min, lucid-precise takes ~ 40 min
[02:58] <hggdh> the real heavy-weights, upgrades of all main and universe, for both ludic and oneiric will take ~ 8 hours to run
[03:00] <skaet> hggdh,  thanks for that info,  ok,   looks like we'll need to let the main and universe run overnight then.
[03:00] <hggdh> skaet: indeed :-)
[03:00] <hggdh> desktop upgrades have started. All server upgrades are successful
[03:00] <skaet> when slangasek gets back from dinner,   hopefully all of the targetted upgrades will be done,  and if all is well,  we can figure out a game plan.
[03:01] <skaet> Thank you hggdh, :)    Will be looking forward to the data in ~40 minutes on the desktop.   (and then decide on bed time ;) )
[03:04] <hggdh> bed time? What is bed time? ;-)
[03:04] <hggdh> skaet: you can follow results here: https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Precise%20Upgrade%20Testing%20Dashboard/
[03:04] <hggdh> it may take a bit for them to be published (some stuck jobs, and we can only clean them up *after* release)
[03:05] <skaet> Thanks hggdh. :)
[03:10] <skaet> ScottK,   the unity-greeter fix looks targetted to kubuntu - can you review it if you want it in this next set of respins?
[03:10] <ScottK> Back.
[03:10] <ScottK> OK.
[03:11] <skaet>  * debian/patches/recognize-kde-plasma.patch:
[03:11] <skaet> +    - Recognize the "kde-plasma" session as "kde" so it gets a properly
[03:11] <skaet> +      branded icon in the greeter.  LP: #986339
[03:18] <ScottK> skaet: It seems like something one would want, but it's a unity fix, so it won't affect the Kubuntu images.  I'd say yes, but I'm not the one that has to retest stuff.
[03:19] <skaet> ScottK,  ok,   it seems something that can be SRU'd easily enough,  so that may be option to take at this point.
[03:22] <ScottK> I agree.
[03:46] <ScottK> skaet: I expect a postfix upload from lamont sometime over the weekend that fixes an important bug.  It's not a regression and it's not essential for the CD, but it isn't something we want to leave laying around any longer than we have to.  I'd like to get it into precise-proposed and then, once it's tested, opportunistically copy to -release if there's a respin.
[03:46] <ScottK> If not, it can go to -updates at release.
[03:46] <infinity> ScottK: If it doesn't break anything, I don't have huge issues with acking the csound sync.
[03:47] <ScottK> infinity: That's the if.  My view would be sync and get the security fixes and then if someone cares about breakage we can work on an SRU.
[03:47] <ScottK> (breakage, if any)
[03:48] <ScottK> Is the python-minimal upgrade loop fixed yet?
[03:50] <infinity> ScottK: If by fixed, you mean "did we add a loop to fix the conflict breakage?", then yes.
[03:50] <infinity> And the loop seems to be working.
[03:51] <ScottK> OK.  I just saw mail on devel-discuss about it and I wasn't sure if that was just lag or not.
[03:51] <infinity> ScottK: As for the sync, if you're willing to follow up on potential fallout, go for it.  Though, my guess is that it'll be fine, who knows...
[03:51] <ScottK> Thanks.
[03:51] <infinity> ScottK: It at least built on all the Debian buildds, so that's promising.
[03:51] <ScottK> Yep.
[03:52] <ScottK> I'll be all radical and test build on Ubuntu first.
[03:59] <skaet> :)
[03:59] <hggdh> skaet: all upgrade tests are queued. So far, so good
[04:00] <skaet> thanks hggdh.  :)
[04:06] <ScottK> OK.  DOne.
[04:06] <ScottK> (csound)
[04:12] <ScottK> infinity: I'm thinking flumotion might deserve similar treatment.  http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=660553 - Looking at the Ubuntu bugs, I think it is extraordinarily unlikely we'll make it work.
[04:12] <ubot2> Debian bug 660553 in flumotion "flumotion fails to start" [Grave,Fixed]
[04:15] <ScottK> Is syncpackage "A new OAuth token consumer" in Launchapdspeak?
[04:16]  * hggdh calls it a day, and goes to bed.
[04:16] <skaet> thanks hggdh!   have a good evening.
[04:16] <skaet> I'll continue to monitor the site, until I do as well.  :)
[04:16] <hggdh> skaet: see you tomorrow, shabbat or not :-)
[04:17] <skaet> :)
[04:17] <ScottK> infinity: It builds fine.
[04:36] <ScottK> FWIW, I just updated a system I hadn't touched since either precise Alpha 2 or Beta 1 and it upgraded just fine (took a VERY long time though).
[04:38] <skaet> :)  nice to hear.
[04:54] <skaet> infinity, slangasek, cjwatson, pitti - if one of you is awake when the python2.7 testing on the iso tracker completes, and the results look reasonable,  please start off the rebuilds.   Otherwise,  I'll start them when I wake up tomorrow (if testing ends up looking ok ;) before heading to airport.
[04:54] <skaet> https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Precise%20Upgrade%20Testing%20Dashboard/
[04:54] <skaet> ^ site to check status of runs on.
[04:55] <skaet> ScottK,  I've updated the pad, and think I've caught the issues you've raised this evening,  please correct anything I may have misinterpreted.  (also,  is there a bug number for lamont's upload?)
[04:55]  * skaet --> zzz
[05:14]  * ScottK looks
[05:14] <ScottK> There is.  I'll find it.
[05:20] <ScottK> skaet: The bug for postfix is Bug #980682.
[05:20] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 980682 in postfix "postconf can't open main.cf with the result that /etc/resolvconf/update-libc.d/postfix fails trying to copy /etc/resolv.conf onto itself" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/980682
[05:20] <ScottK> If by pad you mean the wiki page in /topic then I don't see the changes.
[06:15] <slangasek> so given the impact this python2.7 issue also has on upgrades in the wild, and given that we have evidence now that it fixes the oneiric->precise upgrade for at least the minimal case, I think we should probably copy it to -release now
[06:15] <slangasek> and let the tests continue running overnight before kicking off the respins
[06:16] <slangasek> ScottK, infinity: ^^ that sound right to you?
[06:17] <ScottK> OK.
[06:17] <ScottK> I have another respin worthy upload I'm about to make in any case.
[06:18] <slangasek> python2.7 copied
[06:18] <slangasek> so hopefully that will help the users
[06:18] <slangasek> ScottK: what's the other upload?
[06:19] <ScottK> Fix for Bug #986475
[06:19] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 986475 in bcmwl "Jockey-kde failed to install broadcom STA wifi drivers from Kubuntu Desktop ISO" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/986475
[06:19] <slangasek> aha
[06:19] <ScottK> (you'll see in the bug it turns out to be bcmwl's fault.
[06:20]  * slangasek nods
[06:20] <slangasek> so that's obviously a "can't use the CD" issue that's worthy of a respin, yes
[06:20] <ScottK> dput.
[06:21] <ScottK> Please stare hard at the dependency change I made to make sure it work for upgraders that still have the non-pae kernel.
[06:21] <slangasek> ack
[06:21] <ScottK> I'm as certain as I can be at 2:21AM it's right.
[06:25] <ScottK> At least the Groklaw Oracle vs Google day 5 summary is up so I have something to do while I wait to make sure it appears.
[06:26] <slangasek> looks right to me, accepting
[06:33] <ScottK> Thanks.
[06:33] <ScottK> And good night.
[06:35] <slangasek> 'night
[07:02] <slangasek> skaet: ok, given that the lucid-main and oneiric-main upgrade tests have been running for 4 hours now without kicking out a failure, that gives me enough confidence to start the image respins; doing now
[07:07] <jibel> oneiric and lucid main passed the upgrade calculation phase and is upgrading. other tests are back to normal.
[08:44] <ogra_> hmm, could someone accept my compiz upload to proposed from yesterday so my testers can actually test it ?
[13:18] <skaet> ScottK,  Thanks for tracking down the bug number.   pad I was referncing was: http://pad.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-release
[13:18] <skaet> now that we're spinning images,  we're using it to track image respins/bugs.
[13:19] <knome> is there a status of the adopt a iso -project somewhere? where do i know if xubuntu iso's are adopted or not?
[13:22] <skaet> knome,  http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/reports/subscriptions shows the testcase that folks have subscribed to (and if you mouseover,  who has subscribed)
[13:24] <skaet> just scan down to your product.   (there may be other mechanisms available)
[13:24] <skaet> (that the testing team is using as well - but the one on the iso tracker is what I look at.
[13:24] <skaet> ) :)
[13:47] <ogra_> skaet, is there a reason the compiz upload wasnt accepted so we can actually have binaries for testing in precise-proposed ?
[13:47] <cjwatson> I'm respinning server powerpc with a seed change to get it back undersized; it's had no tests as yet, so I assume nobody will much care
[13:49] <cjwatson> ogra_: should be no problem with that - I'm looking into it now
[13:50] <ogra_> thx
[13:51]  * cjwatson peers at LP's bonkers idea of which diff to display
[13:54] <ogra_> great, thanks a lot !
[13:55] <skaet> ogra_,  state of what needed to and someone comfortable reviewing it didn't seem to happen.   It wasn't recorded on either https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/FrozenArchiveStatus or on pad.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-release,  sigh.  That's fixed now at least.
[13:55] <skaet> Thanks cjwatson for reviewing and accepting.
[13:55] <ogra_> oh, should i have it noted there ?
[13:56] <skaet> ogra_ yes.  There are so many variables in flight,  IRC only traffic for important things results in process fail.  (as illustrated ;) )
[13:56] <ogra_> k, next time, sorry, my fault then
[13:57] <cjwatson> skaet: FWIW the compiz change no longer qualifies as "pervasive change" as in [15], IMO
[13:58] <cjwatson> one fglrx fix, and syncing up the gles patch
[13:58] <skaet> cjwatson,  affects more hardware than just fglrx
[13:58] <ogra_> yup
[13:58] <cjwatson> though I agree it needs testing, it's just not as crazy as stated
[13:58] <ogra_> needs testing on all non fglrx cards
[13:58] <cjwatson> certainly
[13:58] <ogra_> (and on arm indeed :) )
[13:59] <cjwatson> but "pervasive change on tree" suggested to me that everything was totally rearranged, which isn't the case :)
[13:59] <skaet> cjwatson,  not worries about the gles patch (localized scope) there.  but the other fix that's tangled in, in the tree needs much wider testing.
[13:59] <skaet> cjwatson,  feel free to edit.  :)
[13:59] <cjwatson> I've reworded the pad to be a bit more accurate
[13:59] <skaet> :)  yup.  Thanks.
[14:00] <cjwatson> hah, finally, daily-checks says "No problems found!"
[14:01] <skaet> WOOT!!!!!
[14:03] <knome> skaet, are those subscriptions reliable?
[14:04] <knome> skaet, or can somebody subscribe but rarely ever do a test?
[14:04] <skaet> knome,  anyone can subscribe but not test.   However they are getting emails when new images arrive,  if they have subscribed so...
[14:04] <knome> skaet, ok, thanks
[14:05] <knome> that's a good pieve of information altogether :)
[14:05] <skaet> cjwatson,  am seeing /pool/restricted/b/bcmwl/bcmwl-kernel-source_<IP_ADDRESS>+bdcom-0ubuntu6_amd64.deb in the latest builds (or at least ubuntu-desktop)
[14:05] <knome> btw, there's a small technical glitch
[14:06] <knome> scroll all the way down to xubuntu,and try to see the whole list of 12 subscriptors to desktop i386 install (man part)
[14:06] <knome> (second to last item)
[14:06] <skaet> so I think bcmwl made it in.   Haven't looked at all the affected images though so we may have some with,  and without.
[14:07] <skaet> (just a risk,  not sure this is the case,  will try to check later if I get some online time at airport)
[14:11] <skaet> strgaber, ^ see knome's comments.   Is there a project now for it - or should bugs be filed against https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-qa-website with [ISO TRACKER] in the subject?
[14:12] <knome> skaet, thanks
[14:12] <knome> stgraber, sorry ;)
[14:15] <knome> bbl
[14:16] <cjwatson> accepting gnome-games under SRU rules
[14:16] <cjwatson> skaet: yes, is that wrong?
[14:16] <cjwatson> skaet: that's needed to enable broadcom network cards in jockey
[14:17] <skaet> cjwatson,  not wrong,  just wasn't sure about the timing of it landing by reading through the backscroll.
[14:17] <skaet> ie.  did it make it in the builds or not,  timing wise
[14:17] <cjwatson> sorry, I don't think I understand - you're talking about the version?
[14:17] <skaet> it seems to have made it into one,  so likely all,   but risk is there until checked.
[14:17] <cjwatson> ah, I see, timestamped this morning
[14:18] <skaet> re: version.  right one should be:
[14:18] <skaet> bcmwl-kernel-source_<IP_ADDRESS>+bdcom-0ubuntu6_amd64.deb
[14:18] <skaet> will just make a note of it,  as I clean up the pad
[14:18] <skaet> (and remove note when, have had a chance to review the other affected images
[14:18] <skaet> )
[14:19]  * cjwatson greps
[14:19] <cjwatson> all current images have the newest version
[14:19] <skaet> yeah that's what I was doing on ubuntu-desktop.   Feel free to educate on more efficient way to see widely.  ;)
[14:19] <cjwatson> cdimage@nusakan:~/cdimage/www/full$ find -L -path \*/current/\*.list 2>/dev/null | xargs grep bcmwl-kernel-source | egrep -v '/(lucid|maverick|natty|oneiric)/'
[14:19] <cjwatson> (not elegant, I couldn't be bothered to think of a neater way)
[14:20] <skaet> looks good to me.  :)
[14:20] <stgraber> skaet, knome: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-qa-website/+filebug and tag with qa-tracker
[14:20] <skaet> thank you.  :)
[14:20] <cjwatson> right, sorry for previous misunderstanding, juggling family stuff
[14:21]  * ogra_ now has a weird picture of cjwatson sitting on his desk jugglin babies
[14:21] <skaet> cjwatson,  no worries.
[14:21] <cjwatson> not a million miles from the truth
[14:21] <ogra_> heh
[14:22] <ogra_> i hope you dont throw them in the air though :)
[14:22] <stgraber> knome: I need to investigate a replacement code for the tooltip stuff, it's currently CSS only and so isn't terribly flexible. I also have some code around that allows you to click on the number of subscribers and navigate to a page showing you the list of subscribers and some more stats, that should fix the issue for images with a lot of subscribers
[14:22] <skaet> jibel, hggdh,  can the auto update tester be kicked off again now (point it back to release)  - I'm wondering if some of the fails were due to package being copied from -proposed to -released before run was done?
[14:22] <skaet> Anyhow,  would like to get auto test runs done on these latest images so we can understand the status.
[14:23] <stgraber> skaet: I'm checking the status on flavour upgrades now, if it doesn't look good. I'll cancel and restart the test from scratch to get accurate results
[14:24] <cjwatson> ogra_: it's OK as long as you catch them :)
[14:24] <cjwatson> (and don't throw them too high ...)
[14:24] <cjwatson> my children are going to grow up to be rollercoaster fans, I'm pretty sure
[14:25] <skaet> stgraber,  not sure edubuntu should be affected.  It was just an ubuntu run for universe based off of -proposed last night to check all lucid, oneirc -> precise was sane.
[14:25] <skaet> but if there are problems,  certainly want to hear about them.   :)
[14:26] <jibel> skaet, 'main' and 'universe' are still running, that's why status is not updated. I'll remove proposed once it is finished.
[14:26]  * skaet giggling at the images that cjwatson and ogra_  have just put in my head.   lol
[14:27] <skaet> thanks jibel.     If you can kick off a clean set from the latest images that just got published,  would be helpful to have solid data tomorrow.
[14:27] <stgraber> skaet: well, all past upgrades failed because of the python2.7 breakage, so the current run will at least confirm that we're no worse than we were before that
[14:28] <skaet> stgraber,  oh definitely.  :)  Not saying not to do it,  just that the fails on the board may not have been relevant to you.
[14:29] <jibel> skaet, tests are scheduled to start at 1700UTC
[14:29] <skaet> jibel,  that will work.  :)  Thank you.
[14:31] <skaet> http://pad.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-release has been updated.
[14:34] <skaet> reenabling update testing on the tracker now as well...
[15:28] <ScottK> skaet: Thanks.  Would you please put that in /topic then.
[15:32] <ScottK> skaet: re bcmwl, it's availability was one of the things slangasek was tracking before he hit the respin button last night.
[15:38] <ScottK> stgraber: Could you have a look at Bug #974667.  It seems to have come up again in ISO testing today.
[15:38] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 974667 in dnsmasq "dnsmasq does not bind to a port" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/974667
[15:40] <stgraber> ScottK: commented. It might be some kind of race condition, hopefully having the syslog will clarify the problem a bit. cyphermox might be interested too
[15:44] <ScottK> Thanks.
[15:48] <ScottK> Sigh.  It looks like my bcmwl fix wasn't sufficient.
[16:17] <ScottK> Laney: Since I know you're out there uploading stuff: What would you think about me syncing flumotion.  Looking at the RC bug fix it would bring (doesn't start) and the long list of Ubuntu bugs with the current package, it would seem unlikely to make things worse.
[16:21] <Laney> ScottK: if it tests out, go for it
[16:21] <ScottK> It builds.
[16:22] <ScottK> I'll take that as a yes.
[16:22] <Laney> I'd like it to at least have been run, but yes.
[16:23] <ScottK> OK.
[16:24] <ScottK> starts
[16:25] <hggdh> I do not think it is a big deal, but server amd64 JeOS install uses 680M, the test states <= 500M
[16:25] <hggdh> I tend to pass it, and open a bug to update the test
[16:25] <skaet> hggdh,  sounds ok,  thanks.
[16:26] <Laney> back to the pad again?
[16:27] <skaet> Laney,  yes,  as soon as we start working with images, back using the release pad.
[16:27] <Laney> righto
[16:29] <ScottK> Done.
[16:29] <ScottK> skaet: It looks like the bcmwl change I did lastnight (while correct) was not sufficient to induce the with linux-source package onto the ISO.
[16:31] <skaet> ScottK,  will you be working on something to queue up if we end up doing another respin?
[16:31] <ScottK> skaet: Yes.
[16:32] <ScottK> I think this is respin material all by itself as it can prevent you from getting online.
[16:33] <skaet> Thanks for explanation.   Ok,  please keep the status of your efforts updated on the pad as you go.
[16:35] <ScottK> I fixed it by adding the right package to the seed directly for Kubuntu (so I'm about to ask you to respin Kubuntu Desktop i386), but this likely means that any flavor that wants this fix will have to fix their own ship-live seed.
[16:35] <ScottK> cjwatson or slangasek: If you're about, I have a question or so about the above problem and how to fix it.
[16:36] <ScottK> Or infinity.
[16:36] <skaet> I'm going to be offline for a bit now (traveling to London).    Colin Watson and NCommander have agreed to keep an eye on things,  as backup.
[16:37] <NCommander> cya later
[16:37] <skaet> infinity's also traveling to London this weekend.
[16:37] <skaet> slangasek is reachable by phone in emergencies.
[16:39] <ScottK> skaet: I don't suppose you could respin Kubuntu Desktop i386 before you go?
[16:39] <cjwatson> hggdh: oversized jeos install has been a bug for most of this cycle
[16:40] <hggdh> cjwatson: I agree. I think it is time to reconsider this limit
[16:40] <skaet> ScottK,  just about to shut the computer off before heading to airport.   Is it all ready to build?
[16:40] <ScottK> Yes.
[16:40] <cjwatson> ScottK: I'm entertaining the children right now, but give me an hour or so
[16:40]  * skaet doing.
[16:40] <ScottK> It was just a seed change and it's done.
[16:40] <ScottK> cjwatson: Thanks.
[16:40] <cjwatson> question for me still outstanding?
[16:41] <skaet> cjwatson, am handling now.   Then powering off.
[16:41] <skaet> :)
[16:41] <cjwatson> safe travels
[16:41]  * skaet likes Screen ;)
[16:41] <skaet> Thanks!   see you in London.
[16:44] <Laney> are we still using ubuntu-release-notes?
[16:48] <skaet> ScottK,   building now.
[16:48] <ScottK> Thanks.
[16:50] <ScottK> skaet: Also I've now discovered this only affects Kubuntu because (apparently) we ship linux headers differently than the other flavors, so it's more contained than I thought it was.
[16:51] <skaet> ScottK,  that's good news.  Could you put the details of the package, and fix on the pad,  and mark that Kubuntu DVD will need respinning,  if this sorts it then?
[16:51] <ScottK> It won't affect the DVD.
[16:51] <ScottK> Will do.
[16:51] <skaet> Thanks!
[16:51]  * skaet --> airport
[17:55] <ScottK> That took care of it.
[18:03] <ScottK> cjwatson: (for when you get around to it): Unlike other flavors, Kubuntu doesn't have linux-headers-foo in the livefs, it's in the pool via live-ship.  Yesterday I changed bcmwl-kernel-source to properly depends on linux-headers-generic-pae [i386], but Kubuntu still had the wrong linux-headers-generic package on i386.  The other flavors where correct before.
[18:04] <ScottK> I've directly seeded linux-headers-generic-pae [i386] in Kubuntu live-ship, but it seems like I shouldn't have had to.
[18:05] <ScottK> The bcmwl-kernel-source depends on linux-headers-generic-pae [i386] | linux-headers-generic [amd64] | linux-headers should have been enough I'd have thought.
[18:05] <ScottK> so that's what the question was.
[18:05] <ScottK> (less urgent now that I've worked around it)
[18:12] <slangasek> jibel, hggdh: thanks for all the support on retesting python2.7 yesterday; I'm happy to see green and yellow on jenkins today, so looks like we're good
[18:13] <slangasek> ScottK: I'm not sure I understand exactly what the problem is currently.  You mention linux-source, which should never be required for a driver build; did you mean linux-headers?
[18:13] <ScottK> Yes.
[18:13] <ScottK> Sorry.
[18:14] <ScottK> After the bcmwl fix last night, the respin still had the wrong header package on it.
[18:14] <slangasek> ScottK: ah, you've already taken care of this, I see
[18:14] <ScottK> I seeded it directly to work around whatever the source of that was.
[18:14] <ScottK> Yes.
[18:14] <slangasek> right, because of the seed being picked up and satisfying the dep wrongly
[18:14] <slangasek> do you need a kubuntu respin for that?
[18:15] <slangasek> happy to kick one off now if it's ready
[18:15] <slangasek> (otherwise, I'm afk for the next 2h)
[18:15] <ScottK> No, skaet already did it.
[18:15] <slangasek> ok
[18:15] <ScottK> I just downloaded the updated image and confirmed it's correct.
[18:15] <ScottK> Thanks.
[18:15] <slangasek> sure
[18:15] <cjwatson> ScottK: I've only had time for a very quick investigation, but I think that germinate probably happened to follow the recommends of dkms first which permits linux-headers-generic, and then when it got to bcmwl-kernel-source it already had that disjunctive dep satisfied so didn't proceed further
[18:16] <ScottK> cjwatson: That would make sense.
[18:16] <cjwatson> A manual seed entry is a reasonable workaround, although it's slightly awkward that dkms doesn't have a preferred alternative matching the preferred kernel
[18:16] <cjwatson> but the whole business of deps on kernel headers is a mess anyway *shrug*
[18:16] <cjwatson> afk
[18:17] <ScottK> Thanks.
[18:17] <slangasek> yep - we need conditional depends ;P
[18:20] <ScottK> Any thoughts on uploading a dkms to -proposed with the recommends fixed up to DTRT?  It could be there as a target of opportunity if we do a global respin or an SRU for 12.04.1?
[18:24] <hggdh> slangasek: you are welcome :-)
[18:31] <kklimonda> ^ this is a simple fix to the debian/rules so the package installs libraries in the proper (multiarch) location. Without it people have to create symlinks manually to get it to work
[18:46]  * ScottK looks
[18:47] <cjwatson> ScottK: I'm not opposed, although I think it's slightly rearranging-the-deckchairs; but it might reduce chance of error in image building, yes
[18:47] <ScottK> kklimonda: Done.
[18:48] <kklimonda> thanks
[18:48] <ScottK> cjwatson: I'll take a shot at it then.
[18:48] <ScottK> (I agree about the deckchairs)
[20:16] <slangasek> ScottK: what's the impact of the dkms recommends being off?
[20:54]  * Daviey checks in
[21:05]  * slangasek waves to Daviey
[21:08] <ScottK> slangasek: No immediate impact as I've worked around it in seeds.
[21:09] <slangasek> is there a longer-term impact?  not understanding why it would even be SRU-worthy
[21:09] <ScottK> slangasek: I think it'd be nice to get it in, at least for the point release, in aid of overall correctness and surprise avoidance.
[21:09] <ScottK> I know I've worked around the case in seeds of which I was aware.
[21:09] <ScottK> I can't promise there might not be some other case.
[21:09]  * slangasek nods
[21:09] <slangasek> I would tend towards wait-and-see
[21:10] <ScottK> OK.
[21:11] <ScottK> My view was that it's a low risk, obvious step towards correctness, so get it in if we have an opportunity for it.
[21:11] <ScottK> But I'm the one playing normal developer here and you're the one playing release team, so wait and see it is.
[21:11] <slangasek> :)
[21:12] <slangasek> I can't see the downside to caution here, as any further issues that could arise would seem to be non-CD-affecting so an SRU would be just as good
[21:14] <ScottK> I agree SRU is fine.
[23:35] <slangasek> bjf: would be nice if http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/kernel-bugs/reports/rls-p-tracking-bugs.html knew about the 12.04.1 milestone now that it exists


[06:59] <dholbach> good morning
[09:10] <jokerdino> finally, ted gould lays the golden egg - http://askubuntu.com/q/98692/25798
[09:20] <dpm> jokerdino, \o/ awesome :)
[09:21] <jokerdino> i had to resort to "harassing" him on Twitter though :P
[09:22] <dpm> jokerdino, it was for a good cause :)
[09:22] <jokerdino> dpm: yeah.. it is good that we have some sort of a guideline for future app developers
[09:23] <dpm> that's the idea, really pleased to see the growing activity on the application-development tag recently!
[09:24] <dpm> we really need to make people aware of app development in Ubuntu and promote AU's 'application-development' as a great means to get help
[09:25] <jokerdino> i think we are making decent progress towards that.
[09:26] <jokerdino> which is a good thing
[09:27] <jokerdino> there is also an experimental twobottux doing the RSS feed for that tag. it should post the new questions in this room.
[09:27] <dpm> jokerdino, oh wow, so is that already running?
[09:27] <jokerdino> it is working yes.
[09:28] <dpm> that is really awesome, good work!
[09:28] <jokerdino> amithkk did the work :)
[09:31] <dpm> jokerdino, I'm sure you had something to do with it too, and thanks amithkk!
[11:11] <amithkk> Always happy to help dpm
[11:12] <amithkk> That should have a comma if there are grammer nazi's heer
[11:12] <amithkk> *here
[11:15] <dpm> no such people in here :)
[11:15] <dpm> thanks amithkk :)
[11:16] <amithkk> So, any feature requests heer?
[11:16] <amithkk> *here
[11:29] <dpm> amithkk, you mean feature requests for the bot? Let me check when I see the first question popping up - otherwise, has anyone got an idea for a good question to ask on AU to test it? :)
[12:01] <jokerdino> amithkk: does it post older questions edited up?
[14:48] <dpm> \o/ nice, the bot is working :)
[23:59] <pavolzetor> hi, do you know some easy method to test signals in GObject?