[03:03] <klepas> hi all
[03:03] <jjesse> morning klepas
[03:03] <Madpilot> morning everyone
[03:03] <jsgotangco> morning
[03:04] <klepas> people not officially involved in the doc team can voice opinions and tag along, right?
[03:04] <jsgotangco> of course
[03:04] <jjesse> of course
[03:04] <Madpilot> ...still dark out here... barely morning at all... :)
[03:04] <jjesse> grin 9am here, beautiful snowy december morning
[03:04] <jjesse> 4 inches over night
[03:05] <jsgotangco> who's here?
[03:05] <jsgotangco> do we have the numbers to actually hold a meeting?
[03:06] <jjesse> i'm here
[03:06] <jsgotangco> ok let's wait a big just in case
[03:07] <jjesse> doing an OEM install of Dapper flight2 and have had no issues this monring
[03:07] <jjesse> of kubuntu
[03:07] <jsgotangco> wow
[03:07] <jsgotangco> mine in ubuntu is just borked
[03:07] <jsgotangco> i have yet to burn the image of kubuntu though
[03:07] <jjesse> i love the boot screen
[03:08] <jsgotangco> but i'll be doing a good number of updates on the quickguide
[03:08] <jjesse> though how do you do a screen shot of it to include in the doc?
[03:08] <jsgotangco> yeah
[03:08] <jsgotangco> it'll be great
[03:08] <Madpilot> jjesse: with an actual camera? :)
[03:08] <klepas> 01:08 here
[03:08] <klepas> AM :)
[03:08] <klepas> and 30 degrees
[03:09] <Madpilot> -1 C at 0609 here, and sunrise isn't until 0759... bleh
[03:10] <jsgotangco> hmm we don't seem to have the numbers
[03:10] <jsgotangco> Madpilot, -1 C isn't that cold
[03:10] <jjesse> where is everyone?
[03:10] <klepas> Canberra, Australia
[03:10] <jsgotangco> klepas, we meant the other team contributors :)
[03:11] <jsgotangco> hmm lots posted in the agenda but no one came :)
[03:12] <jjesse> jsgotangco: for release notes are we updatign just what has changed since the last release?
[03:12] <jsgotangco> have you seen DapperReleaseNotes?
[03:12] <jjesse> yeah
[03:12] <jsgotangco> there isn't that much but yeah i should update that this weekend
[03:13] <jjesse> have you seen DapperFlight2 ?
[03:13] <jsgotangco> it should get packaged by Flight 3
[03:13] <jsgotangco> yeah but thats more of a marketing doc :)
[03:13] <jjesse> if somoene lets me know in time i can do a kubuntuflight3 page
[03:13] <jsgotangco> but good nonetheless
[03:13] <jjesse> that would liook like that
[03:13] <jsgotangco> its awesome
[03:13] <jsgotangco> matt did good on that one
[03:13] <jsgotangco> actually the flight 2 docs are very VERY good
[03:14] <jjesse> yeah but it would have been cool to have a Kubuntu one ready as well :(
[03:14] <jsgotangco> yeah let's fix that
[03:14] <jsgotangco> mdke seems to have convered good on ubuntu
[03:14] <jsgotangco> DRAKE IS A DRAGON AND KUBUNTU HAS A KONQUI
[03:14] <jsgotangco> =)
[03:15] <jjesse> cackle
[03:15] <jjesse> klepas: did you have something you wanted to share?
[03:15] <jsgotangco> klepas, yeah dude good time to do so
[03:15] <jsgotangco> Madpilot, what happened to Burgy?
[03:15] <jsgotangco> work perhaps
[03:15] <jsgotangco> ?
[03:16] <Madpilot> jsgotangco: he's a lazy SOB? ;)
[03:16] <jsgotangco> haha
[03:16] <jsgotangco> Madpilot, how's docbook treating you?
[03:16] <jjesse> Madpilot: stupid question you are working on???
[03:16] <Madpilot> I'm not swearing at it quite as much
[03:17] <Madpilot> jjesse: I just did the BitTorrent entry for common-tasks.xml - not sure if that patch has been applied yet though
[03:17] <jsgotangco> yeah it can be a bitch sometimes
[03:17] <Madpilot> I posted it to the list last night
[03:17] <jjesse> Madpilot: i just get confused on who is working on what :)
[03:17] <jsgotangco> Madpilot, i'll patch it now
[03:17] <klepas> jsgotangco: sorry
[03:17] <klepas> multitasking
[03:18] <Madpilot> jjesse: you still available for Sunday's Desktop Guide meeting?
[03:19] <jsgotangco> we have a desktop meeting?
[03:19] <jsgotangco> WE'RE NOT IDIOTS UNLIKE YOU GUYS
[03:19] <jsgotangco> haha
[03:19] <jsgotangco> joke
[03:19] <Madpilot> we've been talking about one for Sunday - 1700 UTC I think
[03:20] <jjesse> i should be available
[03:20] <jjesse> hmm i'm -5 UTC so i should be out of church by then
[03:21] <jsgotangco> Madpilot, slobs didn't apply your patch =)
[03:22] <Madpilot> I didn't think it had gone in yet
[03:22] <jjesse> didn't see it come across
[03:22] <Madpilot> I sent the email about 8hrs ago now...
[03:23] <jsgotangco> no worries
[03:23] <jsgotangco> Madpilot, next time we'll guarantee your patch gets applied in 2 hours or your money back =)
[03:23] <Madpilot> :P
[03:24] <jjesse> i'll double your money if its not applied
[03:24] <jsgotangco> and will even topup a fresh commit account
[03:24] <jsgotangco> lol
[03:25] <Madpilot> hmmm... if we're not going to have an actual meeting, maybe we should stop filling the -meeting logs here and head back to -doc?
[03:26] <jsgotangco> speak of the devils
[03:26] <jsgotangco> holy diff errors Madpilot
[03:27] <Madpilot> jsgotangco: hmm? what's up?
[03:27] <mdke> hello all
[03:27] <jsgotangco> its been a while since i patched the docs here better let mdke do it :)
[03:28] <jsgotangco> lots of xref issues
[03:28] <mdke> jsgotangco, validate the desktopguide.xml
[03:28] <jsgotangco> ohhhh
[03:28] <jsgotangco> Madpilot, see?
[03:28] <jsgotangco> =)
[03:29] <jsgotangco> ahh
[03:29] <jsgotangco> no issue then =)
[03:29] <mdke> any meeting action?
[03:29] <jsgotangco> not so much we were waiting for the o great packager =)
[03:29] <Nafallo> what meeting? :-)
[03:30] <mdke> Nafallo, topic?
[03:30] <jsgotangco> mdke, we got lots in the agenda but no bhuvan
[03:31] <mdke> hmm
[03:31] <mdke> rob1?
[03:31] <Nafallo> ah
[03:31] <mdke> dholbach, around?
[03:32] <mdke> Riddell, around?
[03:32] <Riddell> always baby
[03:32] <mdke> heh, yeah true
[03:32] <jsgotangco> Madpilot, applied! 10 brownie points added =)
[03:32] <mdke> well how about we deal with a few agenda items?
[03:33] <mdke> the first two have been around way too long
[03:33] <Madpilot> jsgotangco: thanks
[03:33] <jjesse> back sorrry
[03:33] <mdke> dholbach, Riddell, has any progress been made on the "single source for (k)ubuntu-docs" issue?
[03:34] <Riddell> mdke: not to my knowledge
[03:34] <jsgotangco> jjesse, whoa that was fast
[03:35] <mdke> Riddell, any strong views either way?
[03:35] <mdke> it would be nice, but I have no feel for the difficulty/triviality of what it would take
[03:35] <Riddell> mdke: I think it would still be nice since it would stop us having to do externals to the generic documents in kubuntu, but it's not a major issue
[03:35] <Riddell> wouldn't be that difficult, just takes doing
[03:35] <jsgotangco> whaddaya mean single source?
[03:35] <Riddell> and I don't have time for it
[03:36] <mdke> jsgotangco, building both packages from the same source package
[03:36] <jsgotangco> right
[03:36] <mdke> Riddell, right, I suggest we remove this from the agenda and I'll take it up with Daniel when I next encounter him. If we can do it, we will. otherwise, in the meantime, shall we put the external back?
[03:37] <Riddell> yes, I'll probably do that today
[03:37] <mdke> great
[03:37] <mdke> ok that issue is dealt with
[03:38] <mdke> agenda item 1 is "toolchain for kubuntu docs". this was about using meinproc for building kubuntu docs
[03:38] <jjesse> i think we left that as undecided last time we tlaked about it on the mailing list
[03:38] <mdke> yeah
[03:39] <mdke> afaict I was the only one with an objection to this, so I'm happy to stand aside and for us to continue using meinproc, if no one else objects
[03:39] <Riddell> jsgotangco: it lacks xincludes is the problm
[03:39] <Riddell> problem
[03:39] <jsgotangco> ahhh
[03:39] <mdke> oh yeah crap forgot about that
[03:39] <Riddell> so it means that generic docs can't use xincludes
[03:39] <mdke> and the kubuntu docs can't either
[03:40] <Riddell> well nobody objects if edit kubuntu docs :)
[03:40] <Riddell> if I edit
[03:41] <mdke> no, but if people want to work on both, they'll have to get used to two different procedures, which is a shame
[03:41] <mdke> plus you've got the fact that include/excluding external things from translations is easier with xincludes
[03:42] <jjesse> if it is easier for translations will that make kubuntu docs more easily available in rosetta?
[03:43] <mdke> jjesse, we can make them available in rosetta anyway, but it is more difficult to specify what to include and what to exclude when you're dealing with entities rather than xincludes
[03:43] <jjesse> now i don't totally understand it, but wouldn't it be easier to just keep it simple?
[03:44] <mdke> well meinproc also has some advantages, as Riddell posted. So it's a question of balancing up.
[03:45] <Riddell> like working with KDE :)
[03:45] <mdke> Riddell, well i have few doubts that we can make the html docs built with the other tool work with kde too
[03:46] <mdke> the styling is certainly not a problem.
[03:47] <mdke> the issues were something to do with compression, right?
[03:48] <Riddell> compression and splitting up into .html files
[03:48] <mdke> xsltproc splits up into .html files too
[03:48] <mdke> can the compression be done manually, or not at all?
[03:52] <Riddell> it can be done manually
[03:52] <Riddell> it would just take a lot of hassle with the style sheets and scripting
[03:54] <mdke> Riddell, well I think it should be your call, but I'm really pretty against having to remove xincludes from the generic docs
[03:54] <mdke> is there literally no way meinproc will be happy with xincludes?
[03:55] <Riddell> I don't have time to do anything other than meinproc
[03:55] <Riddell> no, it doesn't support them
[03:55] <jjesse> Riddell or mdke is it somthing that one of you could teach me to do so i could take care of it?
[03:56] <jjesse> or is it just faster to do it your self?
[03:56] <Riddell> faster not to do it :)
[03:56] <mdke> well given that the breezy package didn't use meinproc, it wouldn't be very difficult to revert to that system
[03:57] <mdke> the question is, how bad are the breezy kubuntu docs?
[03:57] <jjesse> bad packaging wise?
[03:57] <mdke> yeah, obviously not content wise
[03:57] <mdke> are the stylesheets ok?
[03:57] <Riddell> you'd need to edit the KDE stylesheet to generate separate .html files then glue them all together with <FILENAME=foo> then compress them
[03:57] <Riddell> they're not valid HTML
[03:58] <mdke> why not?
[03:58] <mdke> how about we use the standard docbook-xsl stylesheets, and apply the kde css, like we do for ubuntu-docs?
[03:58] <mdke> would that help?
[03:58] <Riddell> all the <FILENAME=foo> stuff is in there
[03:59] <Riddell> no, the kde css is designed for the KDE xsl
[04:00] <mdke> Riddell, well it's not like it's complex css. It is basically just a few colours, I'm sure we can make any necessary tweaks
[04:00] <Riddell> go ahead, as I say I've no time for it :
[04:00] <Riddell> :)
[04:00] <mdke> again, ubuntu-docs looks ok (imo)
[04:00] <mdke> or if it doesn't, it will
[04:00] <jsgotangco> go go go mdke !
[04:01] <mdke> ?
[04:01] <mdke> tell you what
[04:01] <mdke> i'll try and knock something up, and we can see what it looks like
[04:04] <mdke> Riddell, is meinproc actively developed? can we bitch at someone about supporting xincludes?
[04:05] <Riddell> i don't think it's been developed for some time, hopefully it'll go away for kde 4
[04:06] <mdke> hmm
[04:06] <mdke> well the ubuntu-docs stuff is definitely valid (x)html, so I'll try and knock something up that you're happy with
[04:08] <Riddell> groovy
[04:09] <mdke> anyone else still here?
[04:09] <jjesse> i am
[04:10] <mdke> any agenda items you'd like to discuss?
[04:10] <jsgotangco> mmm
[04:10] <jjesse> not really, i know a group of us are getting together sunday for a desktop guide mtg
[04:10] <jsgotangco> we're going to update kubuntu doc soon
[04:10] <mdke> cool
[04:10] <jsgotangco> jjesse, but we're not part of *that* group =)
[04:11] <mdke> i'd definitely like to discuss the xml/html question. There has been almost no discussion on the list about this :(
[04:11] <mdke> proposal was http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2005-December/004486.html
[04:11] <jsgotangco> mdke, i really like the way you did for flight 2 packaging both
[04:11] <mdke> with the exception of a thumbs up from mpt, I've seen no real response
[04:11] <jsgotangco> because of that we can easily compare what is better or not
[04:12] <mdke> cool
[04:12] <mdke> any views?
[04:12] <mdke> I'm 100% in favour of html
[04:12] <jsgotangco> translation issues?
[04:12] <mdke> there are no translation issues
[04:12] <mdke> obviously we'd continue to write in xml
[04:12] <mdke> the translations would be fine
[04:13] <Madpilot> so we'd continue to write in Docbook XML, but ship the converted HTML?
[04:13] <mdke> that is the proposal yeah
[04:13] <jsgotangco> yes
[04:14] <Madpilot> I'm getting slightly more used to it :) but HTML is so much easier & less verbose
[04:14] <mhz> jsgotangco: offered to make my ODP into docbook for edubuntu, so I'll start docing finally
[04:14] <mhz> thx jsgotangco
[04:14] <mdke> Madpilot, but more inflexible :(
[04:14] <mdke> so any views on the proposal?
[04:14] <jjesse> i would prefer to continue to write in docbook, i've leared enough of it to continue using
[04:15] <jsgotangco> mhz, i dunno about translation the current doc that'll mean rewriting code
[04:15] <Madpilot> mdke: yeah, I know why Docbook is in use - there are actual good reasons
[04:15] <jsgotangco> mhz, it would be ok if its a new doc though
[04:15] <mdke> yep
[04:15] <jsgotangco> but not an existing one
[04:15] <mhz> jsgotangco: okis, no prob.
[04:15] <mhz> even easier then
[04:15] <jsgotangco> mhz, translating an existing work is much easier (go to rosetta)
[04:15] <mdke> Madpilot, jsgotangco, jjesse, any views on the proposal
[04:15] <mdke> ?
[04:15] <mhz> indeed
[04:16] <jsgotangco> i like the html css at the moment
[04:16] <mdke> me too, and the speed
[04:16] <jsgotangco> its basically moz rendering right?
[04:16] <mdke> yep
[04:16] <jsgotangco> even better
[04:16] <mdke> yelp renders in html anyway
[04:16] <mdke> but if we ship in xml, it has to do the conversion on-the-fly
[04:16] <mdke> whereas if we ship html, we do it at the build
[04:17] <mdke> hence the speed difference
[04:17] <jjesse> as i don't understand the packaging/rendering process the greatest yet, need to learn it, as long as i keep editing the docs in docbook format it shouldn't matter to me what we render in
[04:17] <jjesse> and i have never looked at the ubuntu-docs in gnome, haven't used ubuntu so i can't comment on how yelp loos
[04:17] <mdke> fair enough
[04:17] <jsgotangco> yeah but you have to admit, yelp has improved on speed, but still not good enough
[04:18] <mdke> yelp is fairly quick at displaying html, just slow with xml, understadably
[04:18] <Madpilot> any idea when Yelp is going to get search functions?
[04:18] <mdke> Madpilot, no, but it doesn't make a difference to this issue, because yelp will be the help viewer, regardless of what we decide
[04:18] <jsgotangco> i believe upstream already has it
[04:19] <jsgotangco> Madpilot, oh wait sorry, i meant Printing support
[04:19] <jsgotangco> RAD
[04:19] <mdke> o.o
[04:20] <mdke> as jjesse said the other day, printing support is the most basic function ever
[04:20] <mdke> it really should have had that ages ago ;)
[04:20] <Madpilot> mdke: that's the last major piece of functionality missing from Yelp, so I was just wondering - as for HTML/XML, shipping HTML = faster rendering, which is rarely a bad thing...
[04:20] <jjesse> and search
[04:20] <jsgotangco> khelpcenter had that years ago
[04:21] <mdke> Madpilot, yeah, i don't really see any advantage in shipping xml
[04:21] <jsgotangco> its l337!
[04:22] <mdke> also, the serverguide really has to be in html
[04:22] <mdke> because many servers won't have an xml viewer
[04:22] <jjesse> or viewable in text? if i don't have a gui installed :)
[04:22] <jsgotangco> bah! we only need vi!
[04:22] <jjesse> emacs
[04:22] <mdke> jjesse, yeah that's what I mean, html is viewable easily from the command line,  xml isn't
[04:23] <mdke> any more views on this item?
[04:23] <jjesse> nope
[04:23] <jsgotangco> bundle qemacs
[04:23] <jsgotangco> lol
[04:23] <jjesse> nano
[04:24] <jsgotangco> jjesse, qemacs renders docbook :P
[04:24] <jjesse> ah
[04:24] <mdke> some more agenda items?
[04:24] <mdke>  Cleaning unnecessary/unmaintained documents from svn repository (Bhuvan)
[04:24] <mdke> ?
[04:24] <jjesse> i think i took care of the kubuntu docs
[04:24] <jsgotangco> don't clean up too much yet :)
[04:24] <mdke> i have no objection to removing documents which are unmaintained and are no further use
[04:25] <mdke> jsgotangco, what about edubuntu, what shall we do with that?
[04:25] <jsgotangco> stay it for a while, i'm observing current work in bzr
[04:25] <jsgotangco> as well my upstream gnome doc
[04:25] <jsgotangco> promised mvo will update it next week
[04:25] <jsgotangco> before we move it to his rep
[04:25] <mdke> can't that be hosted in gnome cvs?
[04:26] <jsgotangco> because g-a-i will have a massive change
[04:26] <jsgotangco> sure
[04:26] <jsgotangco> let me piggyback for a week more =)
[04:26] <mdke> ok we'll leave ubuntu/upstream/gai
[04:26] <mdke> what about update-manager?
[04:26] <jsgotangco> not so sure if that is being updated
[04:26] <mdke> presumably this is upstream already?
[04:26] <jsgotangco> it was sean's doc
[04:26] <jsgotangco> can't say
[04:26] <jsgotangco> i could check
[04:27] <mdke> that would be good
[04:27] <jsgotangco> they don't eat that much space anyways
[04:27] <mdke> true
[04:27] <jsgotangco> until i verify i'll take responsibiility for the two
[04:27] <mdke> ok
[04:27] <mdke> i don't think saving space in there is a high priority
[04:27] <jsgotangco> nahh
[04:27] <mdke> daniel recently wrote a script to reduce the size of the source tarball by excluding anything that isn't used
[04:28] <mdke> that has cut it down from 30 to 10MB
[04:28] <jsgotangco> wow
[04:28] <jsgotangco> he can really conjure voodoo huh
[04:28] <mdke> :)
[04:28] <mdke> jsgotangco, what about your accessibility agenda item?
[04:32] <jsgotangco> well i haven't started that much on it yet but we decided to go wiki first
[04:32] <jsgotangco> once we clean it up, the a11y team can decide if its going in
[04:32] <mdke> ok
[04:32] <mdke> that was easy
[04:32] <jsgotangco> so far we're doing good on a11y
[04:32] <mdke> good
[04:33] <mdke> ok as for the 2 remaining items
[04:33] <mdke> the updating the status reports, I think just need to be worked on, we don't need to discuss it, unless anyone wants to
[04:33] <mdke> the sharing of prefaces, we can talk about on sunday IMO
[04:34] <mdke> since it is very much a faqguide issue
[04:34] <jsgotangco> whats on sunday?
[04:34] <mdke> faqguide/desktopguide
[04:34] <mdke> jsgotangco, a meeting about the desktopguide
[04:34] <jsgotangco> oh
[04:34] <mdke> too busy :)
[04:34] <jsgotangco> incredibly
[04:35] <mdke> oh
[04:35] <mdke> how about another agenda item
[04:35] <mdke> commit access for Madpilot?
[04:35] <mdke> gets the +1 from me
[04:35] <jsgotangco> me too
[04:35] <jsgotangco> mdke, www.iosn.net
[04:35] <Madpilot> I'm not a Member yet - planning on that for Jan.
[04:36] <mdke> oh god this bloody member rule
[04:36] <jsgotangco> Madpilot, you're a shoo-in
[04:36] <jsgotangco> mdke, =)
[04:36] <mdke> pah
[04:36] <mdke> i miss ONE meeting, and you guys make this stupid rule ;)
[04:36] <jsgotangco> bah we had good quorum and a majority of devs
[04:37] <Madpilot> the exact time still hasn't been annoucned for the the Dec. 20th CC meeting - if it's another 1400Z meeting, I can make that and put my name down beforehand
[04:38] <mdke> gah
[04:38] <Madpilot> if it's going to be 2200Z, I'll be at work, I'm afraid...
[04:38] <mdke> don't they do them at 2000?
[04:38] <jsgotangco> yikes!
[04:39] <mdke> it is much more difficult for doc team contributors to get membership without having commit access first :(
[04:39] <mdke> Madpilot is going to have to wait until february or so before we can add him...
[04:39] <jsgotangco> jdub's wife is also getting active in iosn
[04:40] <Madpilot> mdke: I'll just keep spamming the list with patches until then - and complaining about XML :P
[04:40] <mdke> Madpilot, ok, we'll keep applying em
[04:40] <mdke> meeting adjourned?
[04:41] <jsgotangco> sure
[04:41] <jsgotangco> we got good mileage really
[04:41] <mdke> ok
[04:41] <jsgotangco> why was the last meeting cancelled?
[04:41] <mdke> no one turned up
[04:41] <jsgotangco> eh?
[04:41] <jsgotangco> well i was in seoul...
[05:05] <seb128> where is herr holbach?
[05:08] <mvo> seb128: I talked to him some minutes ago, he should be here any minute
[05:08] <seb128> k
[05:09] <mvo> seb128: how is your reading going? what book are you? and where :) ?
[05:09] <seb128> I've not read, as usual when starting IRC, got stuff to do :p
[05:09] <Nafallo> dholbach says that he can't connect to freenode.
[05:09] <seb128> I was going to when I remembered the meeting was 20 min later
[05:10] <mvo> what is the nice of j5 on irc? is it j5 :) ?
[05:10] <seb128> yep
[05:11] <dholbach> hi
[05:11] <dholbach> sorry, i'm late
[05:11] <dholbach> just couldn't connect to freenode
[05:11] <Nafallo> welcome back dholbach :-)
[05:12] <jsgotangco> oh desktop meeting eh?
[05:13] <seb128> lol
[05:13] <dholbach> so who's here for the desktop team meeting :)
[05:13] <mvo> ahhhh
[05:14] <mvo> welcome dholbach !
[05:14] <dholbach> you were waiting for me?
[05:14] <dholbach> i'm so touched
[05:14] <seb128> yep
[05:14] <mvo> sure
[05:14] <dholbach> ok
[05:15] <dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/MeetingIdeas
[05:15] <dholbach> so what do we have achieved since the last time?
[05:15] <seb128> UDN
[05:15] <seb128> thanks vuntz :)
[05:15] <dholbach> yeah, that was a blast
[05:15] <seb128> now we have lot of new people on the list
[05:15] <seb128> time to have rocking ideas on make the list active :)
[05:16] <dholbach> we should really focus on getting our crazy ideas to the list asap
[05:16] <seb128> yep
[05:16] <dholbach> but it seems to hard to convert ourselves from the irc-centric approach we take, no? :)
[05:16] <dholbach> mvo for example could take the discussion about dbus/notify there
[05:17] <dholbach> because that will something that will affect huge parts and if we can discuss it and get people involved
[05:18] <mvo> we will need to recompile a bit for both main and universe, seb128 already prepared a list for main
[05:18] <seb128> 23 packages for main
[05:18] <seb128> let me run it on universe
[05:18] <dholbach> 62+46 all in all (-1-1 and glib-1-1)
[05:19] <seb128> 19 for universe
[05:19] <seb128> 23 for main
[05:19] <mvo> seb128: do you use grep-dctrl?
[05:19] <seb128> grep-available in fact
[05:19] <seb128> with some | | to get source packages instead of binary
[05:20] <dholbach> mvo: do you think there will be lots to patch?
[05:20] <mvo> so far everything compiled
[05:20] <mvo> but I'm not 100% sure
[05:21] <dholbach> cool
[05:21] <mvo> we may run into some issues
[05:21] <seb128> is there a way to remove '\n' ?
[05:21] <mvo> otoh gnome is going to depend on it for 2.14 anyway, no?
[05:21] <seb128> ie: for a file
[05:21] <seb128> 1
[05:21] <seb128> 2
[05:21] <seb128> to cat it | sed 's#\n##' or something
[05:24] <dholbach> seb128: sorry, dunno
[05:24] <dholbach> mvo: we could write a mail to u-d-a and just go with it in a big upload over a weekend, so there's no (too big) breakage :)
[05:26] <seb128> yeah, tr works for that :p
[05:26] <seb128> "avahi banshee gnome-power-manager gnome-screensaver gnome-user-share gpe-contacts gpsd libgalago libipoddevice liferea network-manager power-manager thoggen totem vlc xchat-gnome xfce4-terminal xfmedia xterminal"
[05:26] <seb128> for main
[05:26] <seb128> "bluez-pin bluez-utils dbus epiphany-browser evince evolution gnome-applets gnome-utils gnome-vfs2 gnome-volume-manager hal ivman k3b kdebase libgpod libnotify nautilus-cd-burner notification-daemon pmount rhythmbox screem totem update-notifier"
[05:26] <Amaranth> whoa
[05:26] <dholbach> that doesn't look too bad
[05:27] <dholbach> :)
[05:27] <seb128> those are the source rdepends of libdbus-1-1, 1 is universe, second is main
[05:27] <Amaranth> what is changing?
[05:27] <Amaranth> ah
[05:27] <mvo> nice!
[05:29] <dholbach> mvo: ok, so we try the breakage first locally and then shove it to the people?
[05:29] <mvo> good plan I think
[05:29] <dholbach> cool
[05:30] <seb128> mvo: but what happens when new dbus hit the archive?
[05:30] <seb128> apps are broken and need a rebuild NOW?
[05:30] <seb128> binary package name change?
[05:30] <mvo> binary package name changes
[05:30] <mvo> so when dbus hits the archive nothing happens
[05:30] <seb128> oh, nice
[05:30] <seb128> clean transition so
[05:31] <dholbach> seb128: we do it the doko way: do a million uploads at once :)
[05:31] <mvo> but once we start building the first apps we need to be quick :)
[05:31] <mvo> yes
[05:31] <dholbach> we can split up and do it over the weekend or over night :)
[05:31] <seb128> what happens if apps built with 2 different versions try to communicate?
[05:31] <mvo> of course we first need a building dbus *cough*
[05:31] <Nafallo> today!? :-D
[05:31] <raphink> slomo: could you advocate http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1163 again please?
[05:31] <mvo> shock and awe
[05:31] <seb128> we get 2 busses and they don't reach each other
[05:31] <seb128> or BUM?:)
[05:32] <slomo> raphink: wrong channel ;P
[05:32] <mvo> in theory it might work, but in reality -> bum
[05:32] <raphink> oops sorry
[05:32] <raphink> :(
[05:32] <raphink> hehe
[05:32] <seb128> mvo: bum like app crashing?
[05:32] <dholbach> seb128: isnt 'boum' the french way of crashing? ;)
[05:32] <seb128> or just dbus feature not working fine?
[05:32] <seb128> dholbach: yeah, but that's an english meeting :p
[05:32] <seb128> haha :)
[05:32] <dholbach> :)
[05:33] <mvo> I had panel freezes for examples
[05:33] <seb128> panel doesn't use dbus
[05:33] <dholbach> we'll see how it works out... a warning on u-d-a should be appropriate :)
[05:33] <seb128> see my list :p
[05:33] <mvo> but some applets do
[05:33] <seb128> applets should not be able to take the panel down
[05:33] <seb128> I blame vuntz
[05:33] <dholbach> "should" :)
[05:33] <seb128> vuntz|away: HERE, NOW :)
[05:34] <dholbach> haha
[05:34] <seb128> mvo: anyway, 20 package is no big deal, with 2-3 people on it, it's a matter of one hour
[05:34] <dholbach> yeah
[05:34] <sivang> desktop team meeting?
[05:34] <sivang> or doc-team ?
[05:34] <dholbach> desktop, still :)
[05:34] <seb128> guess?
[05:35] <Nafallo> those packages are only main? :-)
[05:35] <dholbach> Nafallo: universe uploads! :)
[05:35] <Nafallo> sivang: no, the docteam has to rebuild 20 packages :-)
[05:35] <seb128> Nafallo: quite the same number for universe
[05:35] <Nafallo> yay! something for me todo :-D
[05:35] <seb128> :)
[05:36] <dholbach> seb128: we'll set up a wiki page, where everybody can take his share of packages and we organize it, before we actually do it, does that sound smart?
[05:36] <Nafallo> dholbach: yes oh humble wikigod :-)
[05:36] <seb128> that sounds not required for me
[05:36] <dholbach> no?
[05:36] <seb128> 20 packages, I can give 7 to you, 7 to mvo and take 6
[05:36] <dholbach> yeah + universe
[05:36] <seb128> and we are done in one hour
[05:37] <seb128> the transition is small enough to be handled on IRC imho
[05:37] <Nafallo> seb128: do you have the list of packages somewhere? :-)
[05:37] <dholbach> *nod*
[05:37] <seb128> but that's because I don't like to wait for hours on wiki every time I do an upload
[05:37] <seb128> if you want to wiki stuff feel free
[05:37] <Nafallo> good point ;-)
[05:37] <seb128> I'll ping you on IRC to update my uploads :p
[05:37] <dholbach> no, but just to share it before we do it :)
[05:37] <dholbach> haha
[05:37] <seb128> Nafallo: I copied it like 20 lines up
[05:37] <dholbach> apart from dbus/notify we need to discuss how to get the pile of bugs managed - the situation is desparate since flight 2
[05:38] <\sh> seb128: send the universe packages to ubuntu-motu ML :)
[05:38] <doko> seb128: do these packages need changes?
[05:38] <seb128> hum, rather like 60 lines now :)
[05:38] <Amaranth> 11 minutes ago
[05:38] <seb128> doko: that's a good point, a few probably
[05:38] <seb128> Debian is like to have the patches ready though, sjoerd was working on that yesterday
[05:38] <Nafallo> oh, I've feed universe + screem to apt-get source now ;-)
[05:39] <seb128> GNOME is current dbus complient
[05:39] <sivang> what packages needs work this time nbesides merger etc?
[05:39] <dholbach> seb128: cool
[05:39] <seb128> mvo: have you tried to rebuild stuff with your new dbus?
[05:40] <mvo> seb128: yes, some stuff, hal, pmount, gnome-media, nautilus-cd-burner, evince
[05:40] <seb128> need patching?
[05:40] <mvo> no, build fine so far
[05:40] <seb128> good
[05:40] <seb128> I was expecting that for GNOME
[05:41] <seb128> brb
[05:41] <dholbach> cool
[05:41] <Nafallo> ehm, I get 404 on the dbus orig.tar.gz
[05:41] <dholbach> where?
[05:41] <Nafallo> (apt-proxy -> archive.u.c)
[05:41] <dholbach> hm, might be temporarily
[05:42] <dholbach> but all in all it seems quite straightforward
[05:43] <dholbach> as i said before, i'd really like to know, what you guys think about the bug matter
[05:44] <dholbach> i think that regular bug days are a good start, but what can we do apart from that?
[05:44] <sivang> dbus rebuild? seems fairly easy to do, where the package list? :)
[05:44] <dholbach> sivang: please read the backlog, seb posted it
[05:44] <seb128> dholbach: bug days like every week or every 2 weeks
[05:45] <seb128> but we need people available/responsive the whole day
[05:45] <seb128> tracking what people do
[05:45] <sivang> dholbach: ok, thanks
[05:45] <mvo> how many people (roughly) attend to bug days?
[05:45] <dholbach> i can't really tell
[05:45] <dholbach> since it's quite "new"
[05:45] <dholbach> last time there were like always 10 doing stuff actively at a time
[05:45] <seb128> mvo: 10-20
[05:46] <sivang> dholbach: what's the approach to not stepping on each ones toes when working on bugs? do you assign them to yourself for that?
[05:46] <seb128> sivang: read the backlog
[05:46] <dholbach> sivang: no, we don't do that
[05:46] <seb128> oh, not speaking about dbus
[05:46] <dholbach> we had categories of bugs mentioned on http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay
[05:46] <Nafallo> dholbach: I can start dropping build-deps on libxdmcp-dev now?
[05:46] <seb128> there is enough bug to not step on another one when picking one usually
[05:46] <dholbach> Nafallo: if libx11 has built, yes
[05:46] <seb128> Nafallo: yeah, was a bad idea to do that
[05:47] <dholbach> like UNCONFIRMED ones, NEEDINFO ones, ...
[05:47] <dholbach> and people told what they were looking at
[05:47] <seb128> Nafallo: fix the issue instead of workaround wrongly half of the world :)
[05:47] <dholbach> apart from that, there were people working on MOTU bugs (in malone), other on bugzilla, ...
[05:47] <Nafallo> seb128: indeed :-)
[05:47] <dholbach> i hope that our call for kubuntu folks, motu folks, other folks will get different people involved, so we can tackle bugs equally
[05:48] <dholbach> but surely, as a desktop team we'd love to see desktop-bugs@ fixed asap :)
[05:48] <dholbach> fixed/triaged
[05:49] <dholbach> it's a bit hard to get people working on bugs, they don't seem to have a special affiliation to it
[05:49] <seb128> yeah, especially distro bugs
[05:49] <seb128> we should make "specialized lists"
[05:49] <dholbach> seb128: the situation on universe bugs is even worse
[05:49] <dholbach> to be frank
[05:50] <seb128> like "GNOMish bugs", "KDEish bug", "installer bugs"
[05:50] <seb128> dholbach: I'm not quite convinced
[05:50] <dholbach> that might make sense, do you think we should have separate days for those?
[05:50] <seb128> maybe not
[05:50] <seb128> but have clear list during the bug day
[05:50] <dholbach> seb128: if i look at my universe bugs mail box that's the impression i get, they are assigned, but not triaged
[05:50] <seb128> so people can focus on what they are interested it
[05:50] <seb128> s/it/in/
[05:50] <dholbach> yeah
[05:51] <dholbach> that definitely sounds good
[05:51] <seb128> dholbach: malone generates a lot of noise
[05:51] <dholbach> :)
[05:51] <dholbach> yes
[05:51] <seb128> I read new bugs on malone quite often since there is no assignee by default
[05:51] <seb128> to figure where GNOME bugs are
[05:51] <seb128> and most of the flood are your syncs
[05:51] <dholbach> i always look at the unassigned list
[05:52] <dholbach> ... first
[05:52] <dholbach> i feel that we need a separate team, maybe we should get t-shirts out to members of the "Ubuntu Bug Squad" :)
[05:53] <dholbach> people in #ubuntu-bugs surely feel "lost" somehow
[05:53] <dholbach> i saw that in the days after the bug day
[05:53] <mvo> some sort of reward will certainly motivate
[05:53] <dholbach> people were getting in and thought "hello, anybody here?"
[05:53] <seb128> I was wondering if we should split bug days
[05:53] <dholbach> split in what way?
[05:54] <seb128> like have desktopish triagging on #ubuntu-desktop
[05:54] <dholbach> mvo: we should talk to mark about that
[05:54] <seb128> instead of #ubuntu-bugs
[05:54] <sivang> ok, so new dbus version?
[05:54] <sivang> :)
[05:54] <dholbach> but that way we will always have bugs not being touched
[05:54] <dholbach> sivang: do you have a big irc lag?
[05:55] <dholbach> not meant to be rude, but we're talking bugs atm :)
[05:55] <sivang> dholbach: erm , I don't think so - maybe, why?
[05:55] <sivang> eh!
[05:55] <sivang> no , it's ok - my brain is lagging, not irc
[05:55] <seb128> dholbach: right, but we can still have a part of the triage on #ubuntu-bugs
[05:56] <dholbach> it might sound stupid, but maybe we should talk bug discussions over there?
[05:56] <dholbach> mvo: any idea on those rewards?
[05:57] <dholbach> seb128: do you know of other bug teams around the open source world, apart from gnome?
[05:57] <mvo> t-shirts, a special thanks mail from leading comunity people (like dholbach)
[05:57] <mvo> that sort of thing
[05:57] <dholbach> haha
[05:57] <mvo> menitoning on a webpage
[05:57] <dholbach> that sounds cool yes
[05:57] <seb128> dholbach: nop
[05:57] <mvo> or a minutes from the bug-day
[05:57] <mvo> with special mentinoing etc
[05:58] <sivang> but people should not do it just for getting some reward or karma, as seb128 once noted. I think he's was right.
[05:58] <dholbach> we should raise more awareness of those people just getting involved
[05:58] <dholbach> like those "everybody look, seb128's first upload to the archive"-mails :)
[05:58] <seb128> I didn't say that
[05:59] <seb128> reward/karma can motivate people for sure
[05:59] <sivang> maybe we need to have a bugs day report, where people working were mentioned (even if they fixed bugs, of if they did not)
[05:59] <seb128> but that's not a reason to make useless stuff only to get karma
[05:59] <dholbach> sivang: sure not, but people willing to contribute usually have contributions of good quality
[05:59] <sivang> dholbach: agreed
[05:59] <sivang> seb128: true
[05:59] <sivang> but t-shirts would be nice :)
[06:00] <sivang> I think that if we care not to make too much distinction between epople the take part in this day, we'll eventually get a nice steady community of bug squad people
[06:00] <dholbach> guys, do bug triage!
[06:00] <dholbach> i will talk to mark for every t-shirt personally
[06:00] <sivang> jsgotangco: WWE?
[06:00] <dholbach> even if i have to buy them, i'll do it
[06:01] <jsgotangco> sivang, world wrestling entertainment heh
[06:01] <sivang> eh, :)
[06:01] <dholbach> seb128: we should do a nice t-shirt design session and i'll sent them out
[06:01] <dholbach> s/sent/send
[06:01] <Nafallo> jsgotangco: did he win against who? :-)
[06:02] <seb128> dholbach: I'm not the guy you want to ping about design stuff :p
[06:02] <dholbach> so who of you will get heavily busy with us next week (21st)? and who of you honestly noticed bug day on 21st?
[06:02] <dholbach> seb128: thanks... we'll do it just fine :)
[06:03] <dholbach> big silence... sure, i understand... "blah... christmas presents... blah...", sure :)
[06:04] <dholbach> if, so if nobody has to say anything, we should move to other topics
[06:04] <seb128> move
[06:05] <dholbach> what do you want to see in the desktop team next? :-)
[06:05] <dholbach> people seem to have high expectations in the team
[06:05] <dholbach> (hence the big amount of subscribers on the list)
[06:05] <dholbach> but it doesnt seem to be clear what people can do
[06:05] <dholbach> is that observation accurate?
[06:06] <jsgotangco> yes
[06:06] <seb128> use the wiki to put task
[06:06] <seb128> don't hesitate to use the list to raise discussion instead of IRC
[06:06] <seb128> to ask for new cool stuff, opinion on it, etc
[06:06] <seb128> maybe some weekly bug triaging stats
[06:06] <seb128> how many bug we got
[06:07] <seb128> how many we closed
[06:07] <dholbach> maybe i should do a day with s/#ubuntu-desktop/ubuntu-desktop@
[06:07] <seb128> the top 5 of bug closers
[06:07] <seb128> daily work discussion are not suitable for a list
[06:07] <seb128> I think this page is nice: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/reports/weekly-bug-summary.html
[06:08] <seb128> we should have a weekly summary for Ubuntu too
[06:08] <dholbach> i just thought about it, but maybe if we could take more of our usual workflow to the mailing list, people would have a "glimpse into what happens everyday"
[06:08] <seb128> people like to see how things are going/moving
[06:08] <sivang> dholbach++
[06:08] <dholbach> who are our bugzilla experts? jdub?
[06:08] <sivang> seb128: but also like to see them logged in a mailing list, when it's easy to go back
[06:08] <seb128> dholbach: we already said that, and I tried to mail the list
[06:08] <sivang> seb128: oh
[06:08] <seb128> I did for the session dialog, gconf changes, asking for the panel launchers and stuff
[06:09] <seb128> dholbach: yeah, jdub I guess
[06:09] <dholbach> yeah, maybe i didn't try hard enough
[06:09] <dholbach> i'll try harder
[06:09] <dholbach> new pages on the wiki, new things we're planning "at some stage", ...
[06:10] <sivang> dholbach: make sure you send it to the list as well, and try to create discussion there
[06:10] <dholbach> sivang: i was talking about the list
[06:10] <sivang> ah ok
[06:10] <dholbach> that sounds sound
[06:10] <dholbach> mvo: you mail to the list first... dbus / notify stuff! YAY :)
[06:10] <sivang> dholbach: you said "wiki pages.." , that's why I Was wondering.
[06:11] <dholbach> it was in context to what seb said before
[06:12] <dholbach> seb128: you think jdub will make such a weekly-bug-summary happen?
[06:12] <seb128> no
[06:12] <dholbach> *nod*
[06:12] <mvo> dholbach: I first need to make it build again
[06:12] <seb128> but it's easy to have some standard queries to get stats and to include that to a weekly mail
[06:12] <seb128> like UDN
[06:12] <dholbach> mvo: ok
[06:12] <dholbach> seb128: i'll look into it
[06:13] <dholbach> and set a big reminder every week :)
[06:13] <seb128> dholbach: ask vuntz about it, he already did some stat on bugzilla.ubuntu like that
[06:13] <dholbach> cool
[06:13] <dholbach> are there some other points somebody would like to raise?
[06:14] <dholbach> ok
[06:14] <dholbach> i think for a rather ad-hoc meeting this went quite well
[06:14] <dholbach> and it makes me happy to see, that there's always enough to discuss in ubuntu-dektop :)
[06:14] <dholbach> if nobody steps up to it, i'll write the minutes
[06:15] <jsgotangco> :D
[06:15] <dholbach> and send them to ubuntu-desktop@ :)
[06:15] <sivang> dholbach: also, make sure you send the stuff about what seb talked in the backlog :)
[06:15] <dholbach> hey vuntz
[06:15] <vuntz> hey
[06:15] <vuntz> :-)
[06:15] <dholbach> vuntz: any points you'd like to raise for the desktop meeting
[06:15] <dholbach> ?
[06:16] <Riddell> I have a brief question
[06:16] <dholbach> Riddell: fire away
[06:16] <Riddell> what's the status of gstreamer 0.10 support in apps?
[06:16] <dholbach> seb128: :-)
[06:17] <vuntz> dholbach: no special points
[06:17] <dholbach> vuntz: unspecial ones?
[06:17] <vuntz> err. don't think so :-)
[06:17] <seb128> Riddell: for GNOME most of them are ported
[06:17] <vuntz> ah
[06:18] <vuntz> don't forget to send new stuff on the list or to me so that it can be in UDN
[06:18] <seb128> Riddell: we will ship dapper with gst010 no gst08, is that an issue for KDE?
[06:18] <vuntz> seb128: we could ship both if necessary
[06:18] <seb128> vuntz: what do you think about doing weekly bug stats (how many new bugs, closed, forwarded, top 5 bug closers, etc) (like http://bugzilla.gnome.org/reports/weekly-bug-summary.html)?
[06:18] <vuntz> seb128: good idea
[06:18] <seb128> vuntz: no we can't
[06:19] <vuntz> I wanted to add a section like this in UDN, btw
[06:19] <vuntz> seb128: why can't we?
[06:19] <Riddell> seb128: amarok will probably be ported to gstreamer 0.10 soon, but there's no plans for kaffeine to be currently
[06:19] <seb128> vuntz: pitti will track me down :p
[06:19] <dholbach> vuntz: great!
[06:19] <seb128> vuntz: anti-duplication front :)
[06:19] <vuntz> seb128: if KDE needs it, we can
[06:19] <vuntz> it doesn't mean GNOME will use it :-)
[06:19] <seb128> vuntz: right, but better to not
[06:20] <dholbach> there's a bit of time until release :)
[06:20] <Riddell> yeah, I just need to persuade them that they'll look old-fashioned if they still use gstreamer0.8
[06:20] <seb128> vuntz: depending on what you mean "ship", we will not on the CD for sure
[06:20] <vuntz> seb128: not the Ubuntu CD, but if KDE needs it, it can be on the Kubuntu one. Can't it?
[06:20] <dholbach> Riddell: haha, that's the best point you can make, for sue :)
[06:20] <vuntz> but I agree it's better to have only 0.10
[06:20] <seb128> vuntz: yeah, no issue for that, it just has to be in main
[06:21] <seb128> but pitti would be happy if we can move 0.8 to universe
[06:21] <seb128> because main means we will have to support it for 3 years
[06:21] <vuntz> and everyone would be happy. Not just pitti :-)
[06:21] <seb128> and upstream already stopped supporting it
[06:21] <seb128> so that's like maintaining it for 3.5 years over upstream
[06:22] <dholbach> ouch :)
[06:23] <dholbach> if that gives answers to the question, we close the meeting, no? :)
[06:23] <dholbach> ok, meeting closed
[06:24] <dholbach> have a nice day
[06:24] <mvo> yep
[06:24] <dholbach> lunch, dinner, whatever
[06:25] <seb128> thanks dholbach
[06:25] <dholbach> thank YOU!
[06:25] <seb128> mvo: at 6pm? that's early! enjou :)
[06:26] <mvo> seb128: it only means I can have a late one too :)
[06:26] <vuntz> hungry german people
[06:56] <seb128> lamont: could you give a rebuild to evolution-data-server with the fixed libx11 (2:0.99.4-0ubuntu2)
[06:57] <lamont> seb128: kicked
[06:57] <seb128> thank you


[08:42] <tsdgeos> pstolowski: Saviq: should the unity-scope-tool package depend on pkg-config and libunity-scopes-dev ?
[08:42] <tsdgeos> tools/registry-tracker.cpp is invoking pkg-config
[08:42] <Saviq> tsdgeos, then sounds like it should
[08:43] <tsdgeos> k, will prepare a MR
[08:43] <Saviq> tsdgeos, but why on libunity-scopes-dev?
[08:43] <tsdgeos> Saviq: because it's the thing it's pkg-config'ing
[08:43] <tsdgeos>         arguments << "--variable=scopesdir";
[08:43] <tsdgeos>         arguments << "libunity-scopes";
[08:43] <tsdgeos>         pkg_config.start("pkg-config", arguments);
[08:45] <pstolowski> otp
[08:46] <Saviq> tsdgeos, ugh, shouldn't it be doing that build time?
[08:46] <tsdgeos> don't know :D
[08:49] <Mirv> Qt 5.4.1 breaking stuff!!11 ...not really, seems pretty smooth, but qtmir test is broken probably because a dummy qtsensors plugin went away bug #1427529
[08:49] <Saviq> Mirv, thanks
[08:49] <Mirv> tsdgeos: if you want to give a whirl, the PPA is now usable on phone
[08:50] <Mirv> Saviq: I've assumed you're in some sort of deadline limbo lately, but I guess now actually you can be reached possibly again :)
[08:51] <Saviq> Mirv, oh? nah, I was just in CPT the week before last
[08:57] <Mirv> Saviq: ok, good that you're available for my eternal Qt pings too!
[08:57] <Saviq> :)
[08:57] <Saviq> brb
[08:57] <Mirv> 5.4.1 should be smooth, of course, but you never know if we adjusted to some .0 bug already too hard.
[09:08] <Saviq> seb128, hey, have you tried running the unity8 session recently? it started locking up before I can log in here :/
[09:08] <Saviq> @unity ↑
[09:08]  * Saviq grabs dbg symbols
[09:08] <seb128> Saviq, hey
[09:08] <seb128> Saviq, likely https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity8/+bug/1422835
[09:08] <Saviq> hmm right
[09:09] <tsdgeos> didn't that land?
[09:09] <seb128> Saviq, there is an uitk fix in staging for 10 days, but uitk landings... no comment...
[09:09] <Saviq> tsdgeos, it got committed to staging, not released
[09:09] <seb128> tsdgeos, no, there has been no uitk landing since mid-feb
[09:09] <tsdgeos> Saviq: show the backtrace, that one is very disctintive
[09:12] <Saviq> tsdgeos, comin' right up
[09:15] <Saviq> tsdgeos, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/10513059/
[09:16] <tsdgeos> hmmm
[09:17] <tsdgeos> doens't look like it i'd say
[09:17] <Saviq> yeah
[09:17]  * Saviq gets more symbols
[09:18] <tsdgeos> Saviq: are we blocked on pam?
[09:18] <Saviq> tsdgeos, ah, there's a branch from mterry that might be helping there
[09:18] <Saviq> although that was a crash
[09:18] <Saviq> https://code.launchpad.net/~mterry/unity8/cancel-pam-harder/+merge/251174
[09:18]  * Saviq tries anyway
[09:19] <tsdgeos> don't know saw two threads in pam-like waits
[09:19] <Saviq> yeah
[09:43] <pstolowski> tsdgeos, +1 for adding these dependencies to unity-scope-tool; i can't find good explanation for the pkg-config invocation there, could very well be determined at build-time; perhaps mhr3 had a reason to do it that way back then
[10:16] <tsdgeos> Saviq: pstolowski: https://code.launchpad.net/~aacid/unity8/scope-tool-dependencies/+merge/251573
[10:25] <pstolowski> tsdgeos, looks good; is # comment allowed in debian/control?
[10:26] <tsdgeos> pstolowski: yep, there's others and it did build :D
[10:27] <pstolowski> cool :)
[10:47] <tsdgeos> greyback: did we release the fix for the startTimer in another thread thing?
[10:48] <tsdgeos> i think we did
[10:48] <tsdgeos> i'm getting some others when launching apps
[10:48] <greyback> tsdgeos: yep we did
[10:48] <tsdgeos> but on the app process not in unity8
[10:48] <tsdgeos> so may be different issue
[10:48] <greyback> yeah
[10:49] <greyback> I guess it wasn't just qtmir that was making that mistake
[11:05] <Saviq> dandrader, hey, here's the mirevent 2.0 silo http://people.canonical.com/~platform/citrain_dashboard/#?distro=ubuntu&q=landing-006
[11:06] <Saviq> dandrader, I had some doubts about package dependencies there, added comments to the relevant MPs
[11:07] <Saviq> /food
[11:10] <dandrader> Saviq, ok
[11:10] <dandrader> Saviq, I saw your comments yesterday. racarr solved them. Unless you made new ones today
[11:53] <tsdgeos> pete-woods: can you review/top-approve https://code.launchpad.net/~aacid/thumbnailer/fix_dbus_blocking/+merge/251065 ?
[11:54] <pete-woods> tsdgeos: it seems like a bunch of different people are trying to fix the same bug here
[11:54] <tsdgeos> well the bug is assigned to me :D
[11:54] <tsdgeos> pete-woods: who else do you know is trying to fix it?
[11:54] <pete-woods> tsdgeos: could you liaise with michi about this? he's not the owner of thumbnailer
[11:55] <pete-woods> tsdgeos: afaik kaleo is doing something funky with some new image provider codepath
[11:55] <tsdgeos> pete-woods: s/not/now ?
[11:55] <tsdgeos> pete-woods: oh yeah Kaleo patch is crazy :)
[11:55] <pete-woods> tsdgeos: correct :)
[11:55] <pete-woods> tsdgeos: also michi wants to fix this at a lower level inside the thumbnailer service
[11:56] <tsdgeos> and at the "wrong" level too imho, https://codereview.qt-project.org/#/c/107427/ is a better fix
[11:56] <tsdgeos> pete-woods: he can't fix that at the lower level
[11:56] <tsdgeos> at least not this bug
[11:56] <pete-woods> tsdgeos: I guess I'm just saying, I think we should talk to everyone involved
[11:56] <tsdgeos> i mean this bug is the provider is broken
[11:56] <pete-woods> so we get the right solution, which could well be yours
[11:56] <tsdgeos> so it blocks the main ui
[11:56] <tsdgeos> you can make it faster and what not
[11:56] <tsdgeos> but still should not block the main ui
[11:56] <pete-woods> tsdgeos: I'm not saying you're wrong. I just want only one person to fix this thing
[11:57] <pete-woods> instead of 3 competing and probably interfering patches
[11:57] <tsdgeos> sure
[11:57] <pete-woods> your fix is appealing to me, because I actually understand the code :)
[11:57] <tsdgeos> i added michi to https://code.launchpad.net/~aacid/thumbnailer/fix_dbus_blocking/+merge/251065
[11:58] <pete-woods> thanks!
[11:58] <pete-woods> if this is all that is required to fix the overall issue, that will save michi from diving down a large rabbit hole
[11:58] <tsdgeos> this fixes "a lot"
[11:59] <tsdgeos> of course doesn't fix the a slow thiumbnail "blocking" a quick one from appearing
[11:59] <tsdgeos> since there's still only one thread for thumbnails
[11:59] <tsdgeos> that'd be either Kaleo's or my patch
[11:59] <tsdgeos> but it's not "the bug" itself
[11:59] <pete-woods> right, so you don't paralellise, but at least you don't block
[11:59] <tsdgeos> it's just a way to make it better
[12:01] <pete-woods> I think it's really worth you having a conversation with michi to explain what exactly the main issue is, the details of how image providers work, etc. otherwise I worry he may do a load of complicated work with possibly little benefit
[12:01] <tsdgeos> pete-woods: do you think it's best if i mail him? not sure if he'll read the MR mail
[12:01] <pete-woods> tsdgeos: definitely
[12:01] <tsdgeos> and we hardly co-indicide in time, no?
[12:01] <pete-woods> probably the same as me
[12:01] <pete-woods> he's there in the mornings
[12:01] <pete-woods> but sure, it's hard
[12:02] <pete-woods> just you know like a million times more than me about the image provider stuff
[12:02] <pete-woods> I can only speculate, rather then know for certain
[12:02] <pete-woods> I think he's planning a super parallelised vision of the thumbnailer
[12:02] <tsdgeos> sure, i'll mail him
[12:02] <pete-woods> and I want to make sure it will expose an API that is actually usable by the QML image provider engine
[12:03] <pete-woods> and also that he doesn't waste 2 weeks of effort
[12:10] <Mirv> tsdgeos: Saviq: any possibility of looking at Qt 5.4.1? keyboard seems broken, maliit-framework crashing. any problem like this without a good explanation makes it a bit more unlikely to get 5.4.1 in with the schedule tight..
[12:10] <Mirv> crashes at QV4::ExecutionContext::setProperty()
[12:15] <tsdgeos> pete-woods: sent, hope i was clear enough :D
[12:16] <tsdgeos> Mirv: which silo is it on?
[12:20] <Mirv> tsdgeos: 012
[12:21] <Mirv> (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/QtTesting)
[12:21] <tsdgeos> i'll try to have a quick look after lunc
[12:21] <tsdgeos> h
[12:28] <dandrader> Saviq, installed silo 006 on my N4 and all seems fine to me
[12:40] <Saviq> dandrader, kk
[12:50] <pete-woods> tsdgeos: thanks for that! :)
[14:17] <tsdgeos> Mirv: the internal structures of qtdeclarative have changed in 5.4.1 vs 5.4.0, have we rebuilt everything that needs qtdeclarative5-private-dev to build?
[14:21] <Mirv> tsdgeos: we should have, since everything that uses qtdeclarative5-private-dev, meaning a symbol from there marked so in the .symbols file, should depend on qtdeclarative-abi-5-4-0. so, maliit-framework is one of them and was rebuilt.
[14:22] <Mirv> but with current knowledge that includes, in addition to Qt packages itself, only ciborium gsettings-qt maliit-framework qtmir qtubuntu ubuntu-ui-toolkit unity8
[14:23] <Mirv> I've tested browser, video and music playback, everything so far otherwise seems correct but the keyboard
[14:23] <tsdgeos> the crash is weird
[14:33] <tsdgeos> Mirv: how pressing is this?
[14:34] <Mirv> tsdgeos: not pressing if you don't want 5.4.1 to vivid-rtm. in that case I'd land it only after the branching has happened. I just thought https://qt.gitorious.org/qt/qtbase/source/69196b38c481610ef30bfe8ce8e7ba6826729ab8:dist/changes-5.4.1 sounds pretty good.
[14:35] <Mirv> tsdgeos: but also not pressing in the sense I'm gone Thu - Tue, ie back next Wed to see if 5.4.1 finalization can happen
[14:35] <Mirv> but if wanted to vivid-rtm it'd need to be non-regressions of course and also the fixed regressions should be understood that they are not a cause of any risky changes in 5.4.1
[14:35] <tsdgeos> Mirv: ok
[14:51] <Mirv> tsdgeos: filed bug #1427710 - and noted 5.4.0 -> 5.4.1 recompiles slight less than 5.3.2 -> 5.4.0. however, there are recompiles available in a separate PPA if paranoid, and I just upgraded eg ubuntu-keyboard without help
[16:20] <om26er> tsdgeos, Hi!
[16:20] <om26er> tsdgeos, can you tell how can i verify the fix for bug 1410131 ?
[16:21] <tsdgeos> om26er: i'm going to go with you can't :/
[16:21] <tsdgeos> not without editing the code
[16:21] <tsdgeos> to ouput some debug
[16:22] <om26er> tsdgeos, hm, need moar unit tests :)
[16:23] <om26er> tsdgeos, does it affect the phone or is it desktop specific ?
[16:25] <tsdgeos> om26er: it does totally affect the phone
[16:26] <tsdgeos> om26er: and yes, more unit tests there won't hurt
[16:26] <om26er> tsdgeos, I have to verify the fix before landing, I am willing to edit some files if needed
[16:27] <om26er> as long as its qml only (no compilation ;)
[16:30] <tsdgeos> om26er: is this a task you need to do now? and how much qml do you know? i can give you the point were adding some code needs to be added, if you can carry on from there nice, if i need to give you the whole of qml code to add, i'm a bit blocked somehwere else atm
[16:31] <Saviq> tsdgeos, this is QA validation of landings (as we have for RTM), enabled for vivid starting yesterday
[16:32] <tsdgeos> right, just don't land that one :D
[16:32] <tsdgeos> i honestly think it's still a bit risky and probably don't want to delay other landings because of this
[16:32] <Saviq> tsdgeos, well, I already tested it, would have to rebuild and retest ;P
[16:34] <Saviq> om26er, ultimately the validation is that you can't see the difference...
[16:35] <Saviq> you could compare that mem usage is lower, right tsdgeos?
[16:35] <Saviq> but it's not by a whole lot
[16:35] <tsdgeos> Saviq: yes mem should be a bit smaller
[16:35] <tsdgeos> for very long scopes
[16:37] <om26er> Saviq, tsdgeos ok hope it doesn't introduce regressions.
[16:37] <om26er> (and sorry for late response, the top indicator never blinked)
[16:37] <tsdgeos> for a definition of regression it will introduce regressions, it changes the caching behaviour, so we have much less stuff on memory now
[16:38] <tsdgeos> so it is possible that on fast flicks of long scopes the icons will have to be reloaded
[16:38] <tsdgeos> if that's a regression of not
[16:38] <tsdgeos> it's up to the definiion of a regression
[16:39] <om26er> we can call that a "trade-off"
[16:42] <tsdgeos> yep, and as Saviq now (and me tested back then when i made this)
[16:42] <tsdgeos> you should not even see it
[16:46] <om26er> tsdgeos, so need to confirm, are the qtmir changes in the silo only for desktop ?
[16:46] <tsdgeos> om26er: do not know
[16:46] <tsdgeos> Saviq: ↑↑
[16:46] <Saviq> om26er, qtmir isn't in the silo any more
[16:47] <Saviq> or well... *should* not be
[16:47] <Saviq> om26er, sorry, /me removes, but there is nothing in there affecting your testing
[17:26] <Cimi> do we need to protect from division by zero in qml properties?
[18:03] <dandrader> greyback, https://code.launchpad.net/~dandrader/qtubuntu/shellRotation/+merge/242215 is still on "needs fixing" from your side


[22:23] <techhero> mork calling orson, come in orson...
[22:29] <arraybolt3> techhero: >
[22:29] <arraybolt3> ?
[22:29] <arraybolt3> (hit the wrong key)
[23:50] <Eickmeyer> 👀 -- 👀
[23:50] <Eickmeyer>  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[23:50] <Eickmeyer> nannoo nannoo
[23:54] <arraybolt3> Eickmeyer: Your dog learned how to type?!
[23:54] <Eickmeyer> arraybolt3: "mork calling orson, come in orson" and "nannoo nannoo" are references to "Mork & Mindy", spin-offs of "Happy Days".
[23:54] <Eickmeyer> Rather, a spinoff.
[23:55] <techhero> Anyone know how I can set the 10/11th playback as default on my usb audio interface?
[23:56] <techhero> my egg ship has a lot of outputs
[23:56] <Eickmeyer> techhero: You can only set a whole device as default, and only the 1 & 2. You'll have to go manually to a patchbay and reroute everything to the 10/11.
[23:57] <Eickmeyer> techhero: What you want to do cannot be done.
[23:58] <techhero> hmm ok, I'll re think my setup then... Big annoying is if I do patch refox from patchance it resets whenever new audio
[23:58] <techhero> firefox*
[23:58] <Eickmeyer> techhero: In 24.04, new feature coming out: Dummy audio devices.
[23:58] <Eickmeyer> That will let you set that as default and route everything else however you want.
[23:58] <techhero> ah
[23:59] <techhero> I'll check it out, thanks
[23:59] <techhero> So that feature isn't out yet?


[01:03] <palhmbs> oi - why is it taking so long to install xulrunner with synaptic?
[01:03] <micahg> palhmbs: what release?
[01:04] <palhmbs> 10.10 --- with <IP_ADDRESS>+build1+nobinonly-0ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>
[01:05] <micahg> hmm, it shouldn't
[01:05] <micahg> or rather not any longer than any other time
[01:05] <palhmbs> it done this earlier to me too... I gave up that time and just installed it manually
[01:05] <micahg> palhmbs: what does ps afx show you
[01:05] <palhmbs> could it be a permissions problem?
[01:06] <palhmbs> 1 sec
[01:06] <palhmbs> 18019 pts/3    S+     0:00                              \_ /usr/lib/xulrunner-<IP_ADDRESS>/xulrunner-bin --gre-versio
[01:07] <palhmbs> that's the xulrunner process - what else am I supposed to be looking for? - I'm running synaptic under trickle...
[01:07] <palhmbs> not that that should make a difference....
[01:08] <micahg> yeah, that's not going to work, that's weird
[01:08] <palhmbs> this thing has been installing for over 1/2 hr...
[01:08] <palhmbs> it's very annoying that every time I have to install firefox this darned thing hangs
[01:08] <micahg> palhmbs: you don't need xulrunner for firefox
[01:09] <palhmbs> I suppose I should submit a bug, but I may be a operator error, I do mess with stuff on my machine quite a bit -- sorry.
[01:09] <micahg> palhmbs: can you pastebin the process tree above that?
[01:10] <palhmbs> micahg, sure, 2 secs.
[01:12] <palhmbs> micahg, -- here -- http://pastebin.com/YWvJTv9q
[01:13] <micahg> palhmbs: I'm not sure what trickle is
[01:13] <palhmbs> trickle is a bandwidth profiler...
[01:14] <palhmbs> http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=trickle&searchon=all&suite=maverick&section=all
[01:16] <palhmbs> as far as I can tell from the output of ps afg - the xulrunner is trying to modify my run-mozilla.sh --
[01:16] <micahg> palhmbs: run-mozilla.sh is a wrapper around xulrunner which handles certain env variables
[01:18] <palhmbs> well the permissions on run-mozilla.sh look good - rwx r-x r-x root root....
[01:19] <palhmbs> I have no idea, maybe I'll just kill synaptic then manually install it
[01:19] <palhmbs> it was easier that way, but wasn't fixing the error
[01:19] <micahg> palhmbs: I think that code is actually unnecessary, I'll look into removing it, but that would only happen in natty
[01:20] <palhmbs> 1 thing I have changed - and since it's only been happening since I installed a firefox extension for Ubuntu One, I thought it may be related.
[01:20] <micahg> ah, it's already been removed, so nothing for me to do, but I'm curious why you're stuck
[01:21] <micahg> can you run xulrunner-1.9.2 --gre-version from the command line?
[01:21] <palhmbs> yep - <IP_ADDRESS>
[01:21] <palhmbs> o.O
[01:22] <micahg> you might want to kill it and start it again
[01:22] <micahg> I wonder if there's a parallel job running
[01:22] <micahg> but even that shouldn't matter
[01:23] <micahg> er, it actually would...
[01:23] <palhmbs> it's weird, I just killed synaptic - did a apt-get update, it told me to do dpkg --configure -a - which install xulrunner fine....
[01:23] <palhmbs> go figure.
[01:24] <palhmbs> if this happens on any more xulrunner synaptic installs, I'll definitely be back to figure this one out - and submit a bug report
[01:24] <micahg> palhmbs: it actually looks like you had <IP_ADDRESS> and <IP_ADDRESS> running at the same time
[01:25] <palhmbs> but thanks for the help - 1 thing I did learn today... ps afg - cool
[01:25] <palhmbs> micahg, how the heck?
[01:26] <micahg> oh, neverming
[01:26] <micahg> *nevermind
[01:26] <micahg> I misread the flow chat :)
[01:27] <micahg> palhmbs: please, if you have more issues, do come back
[01:28] <palhmbs> micahg, np - and thanks again.
[01:32] <palhmbs> micahg, some additional info, which I doubt is very helpful -- ** (synaptic:15831): WARNING **: no statusfd changes/content updates in terminal for 120 seconds      ** (synaptic:15831): WARNING **: TerminalTimeout in step: Configuring xulrunner-1.9.2
[01:33] <palhmbs> I was running synaptic from the terminal, so it showed some error warnings...
[01:33] <micahg> palhmbs: well, it just seems like it hung, if that happens again, maybe attach gdb and try for a backtrace
[01:34] <palhmbs> right - gdb next time, thanks
[06:18] <RedSingularity> Under the "affects" column of a bug report, I assume that you cannot remove a wrong package completely?
[06:19] <ddecator> not that i know of. you can just mark it invalid
[06:20] <RedSingularity> ddecator: thats good too.  Thanks.
[07:04] <palhmbs> what is desktopcouchdb and why does it hog all of my resources so...
[14:09] <abhinav-> hggdh, thanks :-)
[14:10] <hggdh> abhinav-, welcome, and thank you for helping! :-)
[14:12] <abhinav-> hggdh, I have just started contributing, but I am enjoying it :)
[14:14] <hggdh> abhinav-, good! If you have doubts, please do not hesitate to ask, either here, or on the mailing list
[14:17] <abhinav-> hggdh, yes, sure, I will
[15:59] <patrickmw_> bdmurray:  have you had a chance to get through your bug notifications? I subscribed you to a few bugs yesterday
[16:00]  * bdmurray cries
[16:00] <bdmurray> patrickmw_: no not yet
[16:50] <micahg> bdmurray: are we having a meeting in 10 minutes?
[16:51] <bdmurray> micahg: That is when it is scheduled ....  I've been rather swamped lately.
[16:52]  * micahg wonders if others were planning on attending
[17:04] <bdmurray> jordan: you are all set sorry about not getting to it sooner
[17:05] <bdmurray> Anybody interested in a bug squad meeting?
[17:09] <JFo> bdmurray, I'd be interested in them. This time slot though is when I have team meetings usually though.
[17:09] <charlie-tca> calendar showed it at 11:00 UTC
[17:10] <JFo> -ETOOMANYTHOUGHS
[17:10] <charlie-tca> no
[17:10] <charlie-tca> 18:00 UTC, I think
[17:10] <JFo> hmmm, yeah I show it at 1PM EST on my cal
[17:11] <JFo> so in 50 minutes
[17:11] <charlie-tca> 11:0-0 MST
[17:11] <bdmurray> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/Meeting shows 1700 UTC
[17:13] <JFo> looks like the fridge calendar is wrong
[17:13] <JFo> at any rate, I am interested :)
[17:15] <bdmurray> JFo: is there something specific you wanted to discuss and does it require a large audience?
[17:16] <JFo> bdmurray, not really, was just interested in attending a bugsquad meeting since I have not yet
[17:17] <JFo> if there is nothing to discuss then we shouldn't do it just because I want to :)
[17:17] <bdmurray> ah in that case I think we should postpone until next Tuesday and send out an announcement
[17:17] <JFo> works for me
[17:17] <bdmurray> JFo: do you have the calendar url handy?
[17:18] <JFo> bdmurray, to the item itself?
[17:18]  * JFo goes to get it
[17:18] <bdmurray> JFo: the fridge one but I got it thanks
[17:19] <JFo> ah, np
[17:19]  * JFo goes to grab lunch then
[17:20] <bdmurray> micahg: the team meeting is on your calendar?
[17:21]  * micahg checks
[17:21] <micahg> bdmurray: I have it on my internal calendar
[17:22] <micahg> it's not on the fridge though
[17:22] <bdmurray> https://www.google.com/calendar/render?eid=YmxicnVpa2ZiOXNqa25hZ2NyY2Z2cTdpNjRfMjAxMTAzMDhUMTgwMDAwWiBqNXE4NW1taTZ1anZqdGlpNXMxbjNsaTVpb0Bn&ctz=Etc/GMT&gsessionid=OK&sf=true&output=xml ?
[17:24] <charlie-tca> http://www.ubuntu-news.org/calendars/fridge/
[17:25] <charlie-tca> 6 pm entry
[17:26] <micahg> oh, hmm, my fridge calendar isn't loading
[17:26] <charlie-tca> yeah, takes it a bit
[17:26] <charlie-tca> then you have to change to week view, to see the meeting as "ubuntu"
[17:48] <abhinav-> SpamapS, hi, I have pushed the changes to the tomcat6 branch for bug 707405 . take a look when you have time :)
[17:48] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 707405 in tomcat6 (Ubuntu) "tomcat6-instance-create should allow -c -1 (affects: 2) (heat: 14)" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/707405
[18:23] <nemo> http://m8y.org/tmp/temp.txt - maverick.   is this sort of thing (xorg using a bunch of memory) enough to warrant a bug?
[18:23] <nemo> I can't think of any good way to get more info out of it
[18:58] <BUGabundo> evening
[18:59] <erkan^> hello
[18:59] <erkan^> i have problem with thunderbird
[18:59] <erkan^> Inloggen op server imap.googlemail.com is mislukt.
[18:59] <erkan^> what must i do?
[18:59] <micahg> erkan^: english please?
[19:00] <erkan^> ok i try micahg
[19:00] <erkan^> that say "inlog on server imap.google.com is error
[19:00] <erkan^> but yesterday was it good inlog
[19:00] <erkan^> and i can inlog by www.gmail.com, no problem
[19:00] <micahg> erkan^: maybe it's a google issue?
[19:00] <erkan^> but in thunderbird problem now
[19:00] <micahg> my google IMAP is working in thunderbird...
[19:01] <erkan^> 3.1.8 or 3.1.9 ?
[19:01] <micahg> 3.1.9
[19:01] <erkan^> ow
[19:01] <erkan^> my is 3.1.8
[19:01] <micahg> right, I'm on natty
[19:02] <erkan^> did you download --> http://www.mozillamessaging.com ?
[19:02] <erkan^> thence...
[19:02] <erkan^> )-:
[19:02] <micahg> erkan^: no, I uploaded 3.1.9 to natty :)
[19:03] <erkan^> yes i see
[19:03] <micahg> erkan^: it's not a security update
[19:03] <erkan^> which?
[19:03] <micahg> that's why I didn't push it to the stable releases
[19:03] <micahg> 3.1.9
[19:03] <erkan^> but I have seen http://www.mozillamessaging.com/nl/thunderbird/ --> 3.1.9
[19:05] <micahg> erkan^: yep, I was going to upload it to the stable PPA, where is your 3.1.8 from?
[19:06] <erkan^> for security, i don't use PPA, micahg
[19:06] <micahg> erkan^: good policy :)
[19:07] <erkan^> Is PPA dangerous ?
[19:08] <micahg> erkan^: well, depends on the PPA, but they're not officially supported
[19:09] <erkan^> a wait
[19:11] <erkan^> that is my picture, micahg
[19:12] <erkan^> for setting - thunderbird
[19:35] <SpamapS> abhinav-: I saw that, and thanks for the fix with the * vs + .. I had been going a different direction w/ it when I was testing it and never did change the * back. :)
[19:41] <abhinav-> SpamapS,  :-) thank you, for the suggestion of using regex. it's a much better solution now
[19:49] <erkan^> micahg, is it possible thunderbird.deb 3.1.9 ?
[19:50] <micahg> erkan^: yeah, eventually, but it'll be in the thunderbird-stable PPA
[19:55] <erkan^> micahg, #debian is angry on me :/
[20:39] <yokto> hello im on i am running a natty 64 and it seems vim is broken  because it requires vim-runtime =2:7.3.035+hg~8fdc12103333-1ubuntu4 but only ... ubuntu3 is available
[20:40] <micahg> yokto: that's just waiting on it to build I think
[20:40] <yokto> ah ok
[20:59] <hggdh> actually, just available
[21:00] <hggdh> yokto, it is normal that some packages in natty will have missing dependencies; you have to be careful when upgrading
[21:12] <yokto> ok thanks
[21:39] <hggdh> brb, buying a replacement AC filter
[21:45] <JFo> I need to do that at some point as well
[21:46] <charlie-tca> must be rough to *need* an AC filter


[09:55] <Amoz> cjohnston, mobile web?
[09:56] <cjohnston> Amoz: mobile css... making the site work on a phone
[09:58] <Amoz> cjohnston, haven't done anything like that before
[09:58] <cjohnston> ok
[09:58] <Amoz> but basically, it's just a media-property, and doing some changes to layout?
[09:59] <cjohnston> ya.. We have a semi-working branch.. it just needs more work
[09:59] <Amoz> well I could see if I can do anything with it
[09:59] <Amoz> where is it?
[09:59] <cjohnston> lp:~chrisjohnston/summit/mobile-display
[10:22] <Amoz> cjohnston, looks like there's a lot of dup code in the html templates
[10:22] <Amoz> maybe we should put it in a separate mobile.css file? =)
[10:35] <Amoz> cjohnston, also, had to rebuild my tree, how can I add more stuff to the site? http://amoz.dyndns.org:8080/
[10:35] <Amoz> ie. the menu?
[12:09] <cjohnston> Amoz: http://ubuntuone.com/0P6jxsoVcGpuXeBcbsBsUK
[12:14] <cjohnston> steveedwards: ping
[12:23] <Amoz> cjohnston, ping
[12:23] <cjohnston> pong
[12:24] <Amoz> cjohnston, put all mobile css in a separate stylesheet?
[12:24] <cjohnston> no, we were putting it inline.. just do it the way that it currently is.. the stuff that's there just needs to be edited to work
[12:25] <Amoz> cjohnston, any special reason for that?
[12:25] <Amoz> it
[12:25] <cjohnston> I think its on the common/templates/common/index.html schedule/templates/schedule/summit.html schedule/templates/schedule/daily.html
[12:25] <cjohnston> IIRC there were a couple of changes based upon which page you were on
[12:26] <Amoz> yeah those could stay inline
[12:26] <Amoz> but the common stuff shouldn't be duped in every template
[12:26] <Amoz> that's just... horrible
[12:26] <cjohnston> bbl
[12:50] <steveedwards> cjohnston: Hey Chris.
[12:50] <steveedwards> cjohnston: You well?
[12:51] <cjohnston> yessir.. yourself?
[12:51] <steveedwards> cjohnston: Not too bad, thank you.
[12:52] <cjohnston> steveedwards:  the new theme is now live.. would you mind taking one more glance at it to see if you see any issues
[12:52] <steveedwards> cjohnston: Oh, fantastic! Great job. We'll take a look...
[12:53] <cjohnston> ty
[12:53] <cjohnston> the form still needing love is the only thing I know of, but you guys are the expert
[12:54] <steveedwards> cjohnston: This page looks weird to me...
[12:54] <steveedwards> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-q/track/cloudserver/
[12:55] <steveedwards> cjohnston: Flush left and very narrow. Do you see the same thing?
[12:57] <cjohnston> steveedwards: yes.. its due to being rendered by the same as the wide display... so to make the wide display look ok, that happened.. im not really sure what we could do to fix.
[12:58] <steveedwards> cjohnston: Hmm. Okay. We're working on a responsive design solution for the core sites right now. Once we have something concrete we'll document it and pass it over to you. Should make mobile rendering easier to cater for.
[12:59] <cjohnston> awesome
[13:15] <steveedwards> cjohnston: I'm collating the feedback from the team now. I'll send you an email shortly.
[13:18] <cjohnston> thanks
[14:00] <cjohnston> steveedwards: you want the footer wider than the header on one page?
[14:01] <steveedwards> cjohnston: Nah, there's a little margin either side of the footer on http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-q/tracks.
[14:02] <cjohnston> ok.. I'll look at it.. I'm gonna reply with questions
[14:02] <steveedwards> cjohnston: I think the footer's in the inner wrapper rather then outside of it.
[14:02] <steveedwards> cjohnston: Okay, cool. Thanks.
[14:38] <steveedwards> cjohnston: Cheers, Chris.
[14:48] <cjohnston> thanks steveedwards
[14:59] <mhall119> steveedwards: ping
[14:59] <steveedwards> mhall119: Hey Michael.
[15:00] <mhall119> steveedwards: http://unity.ubuntu.com/ is using a pretty old version of the community-developed WP theme, any chance you team would have some time to help up update it to the new one?
[15:01] <steveedwards> mhall119: We're flat out with the release updates at the minute. We could jump straight onto it post launch though. Does that work for you?
[15:02] <steveedwards> mhall119: FYI, we're redoing all the feature pages for release and updating the download and cloud sections of the site.
[15:02] <mhall119> steveedwards: that would be fine for me, thanks
[15:02] <steveedwards> mhall119: Awesome. I'll have a word with Ellen and make sure we schedule it in.
[15:02] <mhall119> steveedwards: no rush, nobody has asked for this yet, but it pains me everytime I see the wrong color orange
[15:02] <steveedwards> mhall119: Ha!  Fluorescent almost.
[15:08] <steveedwards> mhall119: Do you think there's a sound argument for moving the Unity content to Ubutnu.com? Do we need a sub domain in this case?
[15:09] <mhall119> steveedwards: it's really more of a portal, like developer.u.c and cloud.u.c
[15:09] <steveedwards> mhall119: Ah, I see. Gotcha.
[15:35] <cjohnston> steveedwards: so are you wanting the Ubuntu is a trademark .... part?
[15:37] <steveedwards> cjohnston: If possible. It's more about consistency between the sites rather than the actual content.
[15:37] <cjohnston> ok
[15:38] <daker> WTH http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57408608/cops-oakland-attack-suspect-upset-about-teasing/


[04:19] <MTecknology> Any of ya'll around?
[04:24] <MTecknology> aight, I'll ttyal
[05:37]  * svaksha scrolls and smiles @ joey nee Rinchen nee launchpad :P
[06:17] <MTecknology> svaksha: that was kinda funny
[06:17] <svaksha> MTecknology: who ? me or rinchen?
[06:17] <MTecknology> rinchen
[06:18] <svaksha> hehe
[06:18] <MTecknology> I was in #launchpad watching him do that
[06:18] <svaksha> ah rinchen trolls there too..
[06:18]  * svaksha will watchout :P
[06:18] <MTecknology> nah, he's pretty useful there ;)
[06:18]  * svaksha was kidding
[06:19] <MTecknology> i know
[06:19] <MTecknology> I have a question for you thought
[06:19] <MTecknology> anyone else watching in here too
[06:19] <svaksha> the chan is logged
[06:20] <svaksha> if that is what you mean by watching
[06:20] <MTecknology> Is there really any need for a wysiwyg editor in the fridge?
[06:20] <MTecknology> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/fridge/+bug/301388
[06:22] <MTecknology> svaksha: opinion
[06:22]  * svaksha has not thought so deeply about it, so others can answer that better than me :)
[06:23] <svaksha> i was chatting on another chan/server
[06:23] <MTecknology> ya know - nali should be the one to answer that.....
[06:23] <MTecknology> or tyche
[06:24] <MTecknology> tyche: ping?
[06:24] <MTecknology> wait.... nali isn't the one I'm thinking of
[06:24] <MTecknology> oh well....
[06:25] <MTecknology> joey: you around?


[00:21] <Minler> Anyone know if this fis here  http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=622828  will work for Win7?
[00:21] <Minler> Er, fix*
[01:28] <Raggs> evening all
[02:05] <noclof> hi
[03:02] <Adem> How can I edit the entries in my start menu?
[03:07] <totoro> hi, how can i hide what is shown in the applications menu?
[03:08] <Adem> you want to remove the aplications menu?
[03:08] <Adem> or remove single entrys
[03:08] <Adem> entries*
[03:08] <totoro> i just want to hide them from xfce
[03:08] <Adem> right click it> remove
[03:09] <totoro> no, not that
[03:09] <totoro> i want to hide the programs listed in the application menu
[03:09] <Adem> when you right click on the desktop?
[03:09] <totoro> uh, sure
[03:10] <Adem> right click desktop>desktop settings>menus tab
[03:10] <Adem> uncheck 'show applications menu on desktop right click'
[03:11] <totoro> um, not the answer i was looking for
[03:11] <totoro> it's like the Main Menu application gnome, where it's in system -> preferences -> main menu
[03:11] <Adem> Sorry, Im in here looking for help too lol :p just trying to help u
[03:11] <totoro> ah, okay
[03:11] <Adem> this channel is for xfce not gnome
[03:11] <totoro> yes, i know
[03:20] <Tedel> help, please
[03:21] <Tedel> I've just switched from Windows and I need some troubleshooting
[03:21] <Tedel> anyone here?
[03:23] <Tedel> hello, I need to install my new Nvidia driver but it requires to close X
[03:23] <Tedel> how do I close X?
[03:24] <Raggs> close or restart?
[03:24] <Tedel> I need to close it, I guess I will be able to restart it afterwards
[03:24] <Raggs> dont know
[03:25] <Tedel> the Nvidia driver says "You seem to be running an Xserver , please close Xserver to continue"
[03:25] <Adem> try install it in safemode
[03:45] <Tedel> does anybody know how to close xserver in xubuntu? I need to do that to install my Nvidia driver
[04:18] <Raggs> does wine work ok in xubuntu?
[04:59] <Adem> not letting me right click desktop
[05:01] <likemindead> Strange. What kind of hardware do you have?
[05:04] <Adem> define hardware
[05:05] <likemindead> Desktop or laptop, for starters?
[05:07] <Adem> desktop
[05:08] <likemindead> Fresh install or upgrade?
[05:08] <Adem> ive had it for a while, this has never happened befofe
[05:08] <Adem> before
[05:09] <likemindead> Is it just the desktop that won't let you right click? Can you do so inside a file browser or program?
[05:13] <sagar> does anyone know how to get iphone or ipodtouch running on xubuntu ??
[05:18] <Adem> it lets me right click in other stuff
[05:23] <Minler> Anyone know if this fis here  http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=622828  will work for Win7?
[05:23] <Minler> Er, fix
[08:03] <adammm> test
[08:06] <adammm> test
[08:06] <adammm> test
[08:09] <Adem> adammm:
[08:10] <Adem> adammm:
[08:10] <Adem> adammm:
[08:11] <adammm> n
[13:37] <slow-motion> hi
[14:36] <hlpp> can anyone tell me how to install monitor driver on Xubuntu 9.0
[14:36] <bazhang> hlpp, you don't need a monitor driver
[14:36] <hlpp> apparently I do
[14:36] <hlpp> I can't set a correct resolution
[14:36] <hlpp> on Samsung
[14:36] <bazhang> not for xubuntu/ubuntu/kubuntu etc
[14:36] <hlpp> and on iiyama it says "wrong frequency"
[14:37] <bazhang> hlpp, that would be your video card setting; nothing to do with monitor driver
[14:37] <hlpp> hmm thanks, I updated my video card drivers, 'll reboot and see what happens
[14:41] <hlpp> all ok now thx
[14:41] <bazhang> np
[14:42] <nicofs> i just installed xubuntu, used ubuntu before. but now i don't have sound. any ideas?
[14:50] <nicofs> i just installed xubuntu, used ubuntu before. but now i don't have sound. any ideas?
[14:59] <sabr> nicofs, Open xfce4-mixer. Select a sound card with management pulseaudio mixer.
[15:05] <nicofs> works. thx
[16:06] <slow-motion> brb
[17:56] <totoro> how can i hide applications in the applications menu
[17:59] <TheSheep> you can uninstall them if you don't want them
[18:00] <TheSheep> alternatively, you can copy the corresponding .desktop files from /usr/share/applications to you ~/.local/share/applications, then edit them and add hidden=true
[18:01] <TheSheep> *to your
[18:05] <totoro> thanks
[18:09] <Ichat> hi - i got a really nasty and strang problem,
[18:11] <Ichat> when i try to install  xubuntu  9.10  or  10.4  to a pata disk  (foramly used in a raid aray. ) -   the installer is  borking me  that its trying to install to    /dev/mapper/eeeffaabb1     rather than to  hd0   or   sd1
[18:12] <Ichat> regardless that i  allready destroyed its  parttion table  (with the installer,  and with  gparted    )     and also tryed  going from msdos to  GPT      but no luck stil
[18:13] <Ichat> in gpart i get to see booth,   dev/mapprer/abcdef1   and   dev/sda1    where as i only have 1 pata drive and a dvdrom drive
[18:24] <likemindead> Are you using the alternate .iso Ichat?
[18:27] <Ichat> likemindead:  - nope im not should i ?
[18:27] <likemindead> It's worth a shot.
[18:28] <likemindead> Are you doing a fresh install or trying to dual-boot?
[18:28] <Ichat> fresh install
[18:29] <likemindead> And even after formatting the disk first with GParted, you're having trouble?
[18:29] <Ichat> strange is that   in gparted  (on  10.4 ) i only see  sda -   yet in the installer   i see      dev/mapper/eaabbee(somthing)    linear raid device
[18:29] <Ichat> even stranger,  the installer  sais its sata rather than pata
[18:30] <Ichat> yes in recreated the  partition table  GPT (and  msdos - both tried) -  in  gparted
[18:31] <likemindead> Weird.
[18:31] <likemindead> You might try downloading the Parted Magic Live CD.
[18:31] <Ichat> maybe if i could start the installer   with some sort of  'force to sda  )  i could try and bypass this...
[18:32] <likemindead> http://partedmagic.com/
[18:32] <Ichat> i have used the 4.9 live
[18:32] <likemindead> It's more robust than just gparted.
[18:32] <likemindead> Ah.
[19:03] <judgen> howdy fellas n' gals, I am trying out xubuntu lucid atm, but i cant seem to get an volume control applet anywhere in the taskbar. Any suggestions is apprechiated.
[19:05] <TheSheep> judgen: try dragging it from the list
[19:05] <judgen> hmm it is not in the list...
[19:06] <TheSheep> judgen: then install it
[19:06] <judgen> TheSheep, know what package i should search for?
[19:07] <judgen> i mean, i can run kmix thus getting a icon in the tray that way, but i prefer a native xfce applet.
[19:07] <TheSheep> judgen: xfce4-mixer
[19:08] <judgen> oh yeah, it got it.. must have just missed it... but its grayed out though
[19:09] <TheSheep> configure it
[19:12] <judgen> seems to work rathger fine now, allthough i have quite some lower levels of output now, but that is no biggy.
[19:28] <likemindead> Anyone else have the rare hang on booting Xubuntu 10.04 to which you have to do a hard power-off?
[22:00] <kr4zy10> anynoe in here help a noobie?
[22:00] <Sysi> try
[22:01] <kr4zy10> tryin to install android sdk
[22:01] <kr4zy10> lil lost
[22:07] <TheSheep> I suppose #android would be a better place
[22:07] <TheSheep> it's pretty specific
[22:47] <Chaiwalla> hello
[22:47] <knome> !hi | Chaiwalla
[22:47] <Chaiwalla> whenever I open up "Ubuntu Software Center" it opens, then closes (or crashes) about a second later after I it opens
[22:47] <Chaiwalla> please help meee
[22:48] <knome> Chaiwalla, have you tried running it from terminal?
[22:48] <Chaiwalla> sorry
[22:48] <Chaiwalla> n00b
[22:48] <Chaiwalla> I dunno how to do that
[22:48] <knome> no problem
[22:48] <knome> go to applications » accessories and run "terminal
[22:48] <knome> +"
[22:49] <Chaiwalla> ok
[22:49] <Chaiwalla> i'm there
[22:49] <knome> then in the window, type "software-center" without the quotes
[22:49] <knome> and press enter
[22:50] <Chaiwalla> it opened and closed
[22:50] <knome> did you get any output on terminal?
[22:50] <Chaiwalla> the terminal said "/usr/share/software-center/softwarecenter/apt/aptcache.py:40: GtkWarning: gtk_container_add: assertion `GTK_IS_CONTAINER (container)' failed
[22:50] <Chaiwalla>   gtk.main_iteration()
[22:50] <Chaiwalla> Segmentation fault
[22:50] <Chaiwalla> "
[22:52] <Chaiwalla> what should I do?
[22:52] <knome> okay, try typing the next into the terminal, again without quotes: "sudo rm /var/cache/apt/*.bin"
[22:54] <Chaiwalla> ok, I did
[22:54] <Chaiwalla> and I typed my password
[22:54] <knome> yeah
[22:54] <knome> then try software-center again
[22:55] <Chaiwalla> yaaay! that worked
[22:55] <Chaiwalla> thanks man!
[22:55] <knome> great
[22:55] <knome> no problem
[22:55] <knome> enjoy xubuntu
[23:09] <judgen> is there a way of reversing the left and middle mouse buttons functions on the titlebars in xfwm?
[23:10] <knome> judgen, applications » settings » window manager » tab "style", see "button layout"
[23:10] <knome> oh
[23:10] <knome> mouse buttons
[23:10] <knome> sorry...
[23:10] <knome> no, i don't think that's possible
[23:10] <judgen> yeah the mouse buttons
[23:11] <judgen> ouch
[23:12] <knome> judgen, feel free to add a feature request in the xfce bugzilla so that can be discussed, but i'm not sure if the developers are willing to execute that
[23:13] <judgen> ok, i will.I found the feature very helpful for me back when i used to use kde3
[23:13] <schlaftier> judgen: I'd second this feature request, I just realised it would be nice to be able to map "maximise vertically" to a mouse button
[23:14] <judgen> yeah, that would be lovely
[23:14] <judgen> i like to have "lower window" on the second button.
[23:15] <schlaftier> You can define keyboard shortcut for all of these actions, so it shouldn't be hard to implement
[23:15] <knome> schlaftier, feel free to second the feature request on xfce bugzilla, two people requesting something is more than oen
[23:16] <schlaftier> knome: that's what I thought
[23:18] <siddhion_> hey. i have a Transmission connection that goes up and down. It says my port is closed. I went to the Transmission port forwarding guide and it says I should disable my firewall. I am using a router so it should be safe (as the guide says) but is that REALLY safe?
[23:20] <knome> siddhion_, just open the specific port
[23:21] <judgen> i cant find a feature request section. only bug reports..
[23:22] <knome> judgen, file a bug. there should be a way to mark it as a feature request and if not, just write what you want in the description, and it will be handled as a feature request
[23:23] <knome> judgen, you can additionally paste me the link and i can forward that to the developers just to be sure
[23:23] <siddhion_> knome: i see. so would i enter 'ufw allow tcp/51413' ?
[23:24] <slow-motion> n8
[23:24] <siddhion_> knome: or is 'ufw allow 51413' ok?
[23:24] <knome> siddhion_, i don't know tbh
[23:25] <siddhion_> knome: ok, thanks anyways.
[23:26] <judgen> knome, http://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6532
[23:27] <knome> judgen, cheers
[23:27] <schlaftier> judgen: Thanks judgen, I will comment on your request :)
[23:28] <judgen> nice
[23:28] <judgen> thanks
[23:38] <schlaftier> judgen: Thanks again for submitting, I wrote a comment
[23:39] <judgen> i saw =D


[08:44] <brendonjt> ibeardslee, hey there have you got any of them ubuntu inside stickers?
[08:46] <brendonjt> Atamira, hey there got ubuntu 10.10 installed on my machine tonight was a mission it locked up during the upgrade so had to do a full install
[08:53] <kcj> ibeardslee, I'm also interested in stickers if you have them.
[09:04] <ibeardslee> kcj: sure
[09:05] <ibeardslee> https://www.system76.com/community/stickers/
[09:06] <kcj> How many sticker do we get?
[09:07] <kcj> stickers*
[09:08] <kcj> Ah four.
[09:08] <kcj> imadope
[09:11] <ibeardslee> :)
[11:21]  * ojwb wonders why you'd install 10.10
[11:24] <kcj> ojwb, Stubbornness probably.
[23:11] <brendonjt> good morning all
[23:13] <stuartyeates> morning
[23:14] <brendonjt> how are you today?
[23:17] <kcj> morning
[23:24] <Atamira> gee your keen kcj
[23:24] <Atamira> rarely anyone comments in here on sundays
[23:25] <kcj> I'm keen?
[23:25]  * kcj shrugs
[23:46] <Atamira> not such a bad thing
[23:46] <Atamira> maybe we'll start a trent
[23:46] <Atamira> trend
[23:47] <stuartyeates> most people connect to irc at work and don't work weekends.


[16:32] <KillahHerb> Hi guys
[21:04] <locodir-user> Hi anyone here?
[21:06] <locodir-user> I am in Punta Gorda, Florida and am here to see if it is possible to get a boot loader CD locally?
[21:10] <maxolasersquad> locodir-user: There are people in your area here.
[21:10] <maxolasersquad> They just might not be actively viewing at this moment.
[21:11] <locodir-user> ty
[21:12] <locodir-user> Any suggestions on my 2nd ever linux install? im a newbie but its soo easy!


[14:39] <KGB-X> glib pipeline Simon McVittie 676181 * pending (extract-source: pending; build: created; build i386: created; build armhf: created; build arm64: created; build source: created; test-build-any: created; test-build-all: created; reprotest: created; lintian: created; autopkgtest: created; blhc: created; piuparts: created)
[14:41] <KGB-X> glib Simon McVittie 488860 * commented merge request !39 * https://salsa.debian.org/gnome-team/glib/-/merge_requests/39#note_488860
[14:41] -ubottu:#ubuntu-desktop- Merge 39 in gnome-team/glib "Draft: [buster] Fix CVE-2024-34397" [Opened]
[14:41] <KGB-X> glib pipeline Simon McVittie 676181 * running (extract-source: running; build: created; build i386: created; build armhf: created; build arm64: created; build source: created; test-build-any: created; test-build-all: created; reprotest: created; lintian: created; autopkgtest: created; blhc: created; piuparts: created)
[16:24] <KGB-X> glib Simon McVittie 488903 * commented merge request !39 * https://salsa.debian.org/gnome-team/glib/-/merge_requests/39#note_488903
[16:24] -ubottu:#ubuntu-desktop- Merge 39 in gnome-team/glib "Draft: [buster] Fix CVE-2024-34397" [Opened]
[22:00] <KGB-X> glib pipeline Simon McVittie 676181 * [1 hour, 23 minutes and 26 seconds] failed (extract-source: success; build: success; build i386: success; build armhf: failed; build arm64: failed; build source: success; test-build-any: skipped; test-build-all: skipped; reprotest: success; lintian: failed; autopkgtest: success; blhc: success; piuparts: failed)