[00:00] <secretlondon> interesting stuff in .xession-errors, nothing in Xorg.0.log
[00:00] <secretlondon> oh i think it's lost the sound too, but can't really tell
[00:00]  * secretlondon hopes there's a bug on this
[00:02] <secretlondon> maybe hal as it didn't mount my usb pen drive either
[00:03] <WorkingOnWise> if I boot of any 386 kernel, I get 1 core active and full 3d video on my AMD Turion x2/Nvidia Go 6100 laptop using Hardy 32bit, with all the updates. If I boot off any generic kernel, I get both cores but only basic vga graphics. I know that as of Hardy alpha5 on AMD64, I could boot from a generic kernel and get both cores and full 3d video support. Any ideas?
[00:04] <RAOF> secretlondon: That sounds like the screen-resolution tool is messing with xrandr for you.
[00:04] <Dr_Willis> reinstall the nvidia drivers, while you have the  generic kernel booted up.
[00:04] <RAOF> WorkingOnWise: Do you have linux-restricted-modules generic installed?
[00:04] <Dr_Willis> I had to twiddle with this the other day.
[00:04] <WorkingOnWise> RAOF: yup
[00:05] <Dr_Willis> had to reinstall some packages, and i removed the 386 kernel package.
[00:05] <secretlondon> ROAF: hmm. it was broken a few days ago and did nothing at all. It may be differently broken now ;)
[00:05] <WorkingOnWise> oh, yeah....if I remove the 386 kernel, apt also wants to remove VirtualBox OSE....
[00:06] <DanaG> Use aptitude.
[00:06] <WorkingOnWise> DanaG: me?
[00:10] <DanaG> Yup.  That'll let you see what's depending on what.
[00:14] <WorkingOnWise> DanaG: If I try to override dependency's, wont that cause a new set of troubles? I guess I am confused as to why VirtualBox OSE would be dependent on a 386 kernel exclusively...
[00:14] <DanaG> It does explicitly?  Odd.
[00:15] <DanaG> I use the non-OSE, so I don't use the packaged modules.
[00:15] <WorkingOnWise> yes...I know
[00:16] <WorkingOnWise> The PEUL broke a week ago. I couldn't compile the module for the new kernel, so I switched to the OSE since I dont really need anything from the PEUL
[00:16] <WorkingOnWise> we see how well that Idea has paid off for me....
[00:17] <user5>  hi there, after updating to karnel 12, don't work alsamixer in kmix, wath appening???
[00:17] <user5> some news about the problem??? thank you
[00:17] <WorkingOnWise> is there any harm in running the server kernel?
[00:18] <user5> nope server
[00:19] <WorkingOnWise> lol...I was asking the room in general user5...related to my trouble.
[00:20] <DanaG> Odd, lots of unknown symbols in alsa-modules built on 2.6.24-12.
[00:21] <user5> yes, confrim
[00:22] <user5> danag: I think will adgusting
[00:22] <user5> danag: tray updating again
[00:23] <DanaG> Updating what?
[00:23] <DanaG> Oh yeah, I'm compiling my own alsa-modules.
[00:25] <user5> danag: work alsa now?
[00:26] <setuid> Works great for me
[00:26] <DanaG> Update what?
[00:27] <DanaG> It seems like this new 'lum' headers package has changed something.
[00:27] <user5> setuid: in karnel 12 ?
[00:28] <Ng> DanaG: I got lots of missing symbols in alsa stuff too
[00:28] <setuid> Linux version 2.6.24-11-generic (buildd@rothera) (gcc version 4.2.3 (Ubuntu 4.2.3-2ubuntu1)) #1 SMP Fri Feb 29 22:08:31 UTC 2008
[00:29] <user5> setuid: wath is'it?
[00:30] <setuid> What is what?
[00:31] <user5> gcc version?
[00:31] <setuid> It says it right there
[00:31] <Ng> yeah alsa modules work fine in 2.6.24-11, but not in -12
[00:32] <setuid> oh? I'm about to build another one from Linus' git tree, so give me a minute
[00:32] <user5> Ng: it's ok
[00:32] <WorkingOnWise> rebooting using the server kernel, hoping to get both cores AND 3d video back...wish me luck!!
[00:32] <Ng> user5: ?
[00:32] <user5> Ng: in karnel 11?
[00:33] <Ng> user5: 2.6.24-11 is fine, -12 seems to have broken alsa
[00:33] <setuid> I doubt it, but let me see
[00:33] <user5> Ng: yes ok, I trai in kernel 11, one minute
[00:33] <DanaG> -12 has broken ALSA even when I build ALSA myself.
[00:34] <DanaG> Hmm, forgot depmod, maybe?
[00:34] <setuid> I'll bet it's not the kernel's fault
[00:34] <DanaG> Nope, still broken.
[00:34] <user5> Ng: maybe is alsa-formware misisng?
[00:35] <Ng> setuid: well that is quite likely to be true because we have alsa in l-u-m, not the kernel
[00:35] <setuid> What is l-u-m?
[00:35] <Ng> linux-ubuntu-modules
[00:35] <DanaG> Hmm, oddly enough, alsa-source builds fine.
[00:35] <Ng> I assume it's because we are using a newer alsa
[00:35] <DanaG> It just has approximately every single symbol missing.
[00:36] <DanaG> [ 1546.681288] snd: Unknown symbol unregister_sound_special
[00:36] <DanaG> [ 1546.681579] snd: Unknown symbol register_sound_special_device
[00:36] <DanaG> [ 1546.682387] snd: Unknown symbol sound_class
[00:37] <setuid> I'll figur eit out, give me a minute
[00:37] <setuid> I'm keen with these things
[00:37] <DanaG> And basically goes on and on and one with more things like that in every module.
[00:38]  * Ng tries to remember the jazz for stabbing SCIM in the face
[00:38] <mphill> did sound/gstreamer die with the latest update?
[00:38] <DanaG> ALSA itself seems to have broken.
[00:39] <Ng> yes, go back to the -11 kernel
[00:39] <user5> Ng: going work in -11?
[00:39] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> Ng, the latest isn't -11?
[00:40] <Ng> obviously not :)
[00:40] <Ng> the latest is -12
[00:40] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> um..
[00:41] <setuid> I hate how git makes every directory it creates, 4755 perms
[00:43] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> and alsa is broken
[00:44] <RAOF> Not here, but I've module-assistant'ed alsa-source.
[00:44] <setuid> If it's broken (which I doubt), then it will be fixed before April :D
[00:45] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> RAOF, sorry, what does that mean?
[00:45] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> setuid, it better be :D
[00:46] <Ng> of course it will
[00:46] <setuid> I'm nearly done pulling git again, give it a few minutes
[00:46] <Ng> setuid: what's to doubt? the symbols can't be resolved => it's broken
[00:46] <icesword> where can i download 8.04?
[00:46] <Ng> icesword: don't
[00:47] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> lol
[00:47] <Ng> if you need to ask these things, wait until april
[00:47] <icesword> why
[00:47] <icesword> no
[00:47] <icesword> i want the alpha one
[00:47] <user5> hello, in k -11, alsa it's all ok working
[00:47] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> icesword, becuz it's unstable?
[00:47] <setuid> Ng, I'm skeptical of the claim
[00:47] <Ng> setuid: see bug #200338
[00:47] <icesword> hmmm,i like unstable
[00:47] <ubotwo> Launchpad bug 200338 in linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.24 "no sound hardy kernel 2.6.24-12 " [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/200338
[00:48] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> ubotwo?..
[00:48] <user5> ubotwo: thank you
[00:48] <icesword> Ng, hmm,can you tell some new features about 8.04.i just cannot wait
[00:49] <LjL> !hardy
[00:49] <ubotwo> Hardy Heron is the code name for the next release of Ubuntu (8.04-LTS), due April 2008 - For more info, see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyHeron - CONSIDER IT TO BE PRE BETA (ALPHA) SOFTWARE - Discussion and support in #ubuntu+1, NOT #ubuntu
[00:49] <LjL> click link, see features
[00:49] <icesword> k
[00:50] <secretlondon> my sound is broken too, think after -12 update. dmesg full of error messages from audio drivers for handware I don't have
[00:50] <Ng> secretlondon: drop back to -11
[00:51] <Ng> I suspect that basically everyone's sound is going to be broken with -12, so there's little point confirming it at this point
[00:51] <secretlondon> Ng: as X is broken too I'm writing this from gutsy ;)
[00:51] <Ng> especially given how many people have AOL'd the bug
[00:51] <secretlondon> ah! ME TOOs are silly when there is 100 of them
[00:52] <user5> hi, there, I'm just going out goodnight
[00:53] <amx109> hi. using hardy alpha 6, it seems to mount vfat/ntfs partitions incorrectly, despite me explicitly specifying them in /etc/fstab. a manual sudo umount<dir> && sudo mount <dir> fixes it. am i doing something wrong ref fstab or is there a diff way to handle those fs's now eg with fuse?
[00:53] <WorkingOnWise> no joy. Still have to pich either both cores or 3d video....
[00:54] <WorkingOnWise> pich=pick
[00:54] <DanaG> Dang, pulseaudio doesn't work with oss.
[00:54] <DanaG> WorkingOnWise: can't you just install the restricted-modules package for that kernel?
[00:55] <DanaG> They should pull -12 from the mirrors, perhaps.
[00:55] <alanbshepard70> I tried running hardy and when the boot process gets to starting gnome my monitor starts flickering and never comes back on. What should I look for in my logs to determine the cause? When Running off of the live cd everything works perfect out of the box where previous version didn't like dell computers with a PCI video card.
[00:56] <igorgue> no sound in hardy :(
[00:56] <DanaG> Oh, and on PulseAudio bugtracker:
[00:56] <DanaG> " PA perfectly supports surround sound these days and does a simple but automatic up and downmixing. Closing this bug. "
[00:56] <DanaG> Bull.  It doesn't support surround on my emu10k1-based card!
[00:57] <igorgue> jeje lol, and the cpu bip is enabled, I have never heard it :D
[00:57] <amx109> DanaG, i concur!
[00:57] <igorgue> pretty cool
[00:58] <FelipeS> I'm on Hardy. I just did some updates which required me to reboot my PC. Now my sound device is not detected by Ubuntu. The device does show under lspci however,
[00:58] <igorgue> dudes do you know what's the problem right now with sound?
[00:58] <Ng> DanaG: no, they shouldn't pull it from the mirrors
[00:58] <FelipeS> So I guess it's not just me?
[00:58] <igorgue> I have an intel chipset
[00:58] <Ng> FelipeS: igorgue: go back to -11 kernel
[00:58] <FelipeS> me too
[00:58] <igorgue> ahh
[00:58] <DanaG> Thing to do now: add it to the channel topic.
[00:58] <WorkingOnWise> DanaG: the restricted-modules pkg is already installed for each kernel I have listed. I'll try reinstalling them...maybe that will help...
[00:58] <igorgue> ok, I guess some drivers are missing, thanks Ng
[00:58] <macogw> sound works for me
[00:59] <igorgue> bad update, bad update :D
[00:59] <DanaG> thing about pulseaudio:  http://www.pulseaudio.org/ticket/151
[00:59] <macogw> and i think it's louder than it was before...
[00:59] <DanaG> Not just drivers missing; all symbols are missing, too.
[00:59] <macogw> but then, i thought it was oddly quiet a couple days ago
[00:59] <igorgue> Ng: do you know which packages is going to fix it?
[00:59] <Ng> igorgue: no
[00:59] <igorgue> ok
[00:59] <igorgue> thanks
[00:59] <Ng> I imagine it'll be fixed in the next day or so with some new kernel jazz
[01:00] <Ng> but I wouldn't bet on it because hardy is UNSTABLE
[01:00] <igorgue> ok, I'll try later
[01:00] <Ng> you must accept that you get to keep all the pieces when it breaks ;)
[01:00] <igorgue> yes I know
[01:03] <macogw> oo wait there's been *another* kernel update
[01:03] <FelipeS> already?
[01:03] <amx109> that was quick
[01:03] <FelipeS> great
[01:03] <macogw> no not that one
[01:03] <macogw> i didnt update yet today
[01:03] <macogw> i have the gui update manager turned off
[01:04] <macogw> so once or twice a day i do an apt-get update && aptitude upgrade
[01:04] <secretlondon> does anyone has the privs to update the topic with the sound bug?
[01:04] <macogw> oh but the linux-image-generic is being held back
[01:05] <biggahed_> alsa broke in the last update, right?
[01:05] <FelipeS> huh?
[01:05] <FelipeS> You're the first person to say that
[01:05] <FelipeS> I'm kidding. It did.
[01:06] <secretlondon> alsa is broken for everybody
[01:06] <biggahed_> :)
[01:06] <biggahed_> np, just checking out
[01:08] <DanaG> I wish ALSA would allow me to use mic pin as output.
[01:09] <ethana2> hiyarr
[01:09] <ethana2> now my desktop will do nothing at all
[01:09] <ethana2> but at least I have output to both seat's monitors
[01:09] <ethana2> so I guess I've made progress
[01:10] <ethana2> ..but now I don't know how to turn userful /off/
[01:10] <ethana2> ...because gdm won't load on either monitor
[01:11] <ethana2> userful has ctrl+alt+backspace and ctr+alt+F2 off
[01:11] <ethana2> even ctr+alt+delete doesn't work
[01:11] <ethana2> ...is there still no IRC channel for userful support?
[01:11] <macogw> ok no, alsa's not broken for me
[01:11] <macogw> there's a kernel update available, but apt is holding it back
[01:12] <macogw> did you guys who have it broken force-install it while it was being held back?
[01:12] <ethana2> I reverted kernels 'cause my sound died
[01:12] <ethana2> nope
[01:12] <DanaG> Nope.  It wasn't held back for me.
[01:12] <ethana2> same
[01:12] <macogw> is a kernel being held back for you right now?
[01:12] <ethana2> but now that I can't even get to a gui on that machine it's looking somewhat trivial...
[01:12] <macogw> i did a big pile of updates this morning that went through fine and my sound's fine
[01:12] <DanaG> I'm going to forbid -12.
[01:13] <macogw> oh X just died for me
[01:13] <ethana2> yeah, 12 is messed up somehow
[01:13] <macogw> well i'm using 11, so 12 is being held back for me
[01:16] <justin123> i've just installed hardy alpha 6 for a friend.  when I installed nvidia-glx-new it didn't seem to configure xorg.conf
[01:17] <justin123> how do I configure it after the fact?
[01:17] <macogw> justin123: you dont
[01:17] <secretlondon> xorg.conf is done automatically
[01:17] <macogw> xorg.conf is supposed to be nearly empty
[01:17] <macogw> confused me too
[01:17] <secretlondon> however it may not do it right in which case you need to add stuff
[01:17] <frank23> justin123: did you enable the driver in Restricted Drivers
[01:18] <justin123> well glxgears fails with Xlib:  extension "GLX" missing on display ":0.0".
[01:18] <macogw> how do i debug the fact that suddenly X died and i couldnt get to a TTY or anything...all i could do is hold the power button
[01:18] <macogw> ?
[01:18] <secretlondon> debugging system crash?
[01:18] <justin123> yes i have restricted drivers enabled and installed : nvidia-glx-new
[01:18] <secretlondon> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingSystemCrash
[01:18] <frank23> justin123: did you restart X?
[01:18] <justin123> yes rebooted
[01:19] <justin123> xorg.conf doesn't even say nvidia. it says Device		"Configured Video Device"
[01:19] <secretlondon> justin123: yes they all do that now
[01:19] <frank23> justin123: yeah xorg.conf is pretty minimal now
[01:19] <macogw> secretlondon: is that considered a system crash? i was thinking it was an X crash... now i think about it, when it did this earlier today, it did respond to alt+sysrq+b to reboot, so the kernel still keeps listening
[01:19] <ethana2> ..i don't like it...
[01:19] <justin123> ya you were mentioning that. that's just strange
[01:19] <ethana2> I don't know what's going on by looking at it now
[01:19] <macogw> ethana2: agreed
[01:19] <ethana2> and as I said
[01:19] <ethana2> I have a dual seat system
[01:19] <secretlondon> macogw: if you can't get a terminal or restart X then treat it as a system crash I think
[01:20] <ethana2> so that can be pretty important
[01:20] <ethana2> 'course, it doesn't even use xorg.conf now
[01:20] <icesword> can i use alternate cd to upgrade to 8.04
[01:20] <justin123> so how would one indicate if they wanted the nv driver vs the nvidia binary
[01:20] <macogw> secretlondon: ok...so what do i do?
[01:20] <ethana2> it has its own with another name
[01:20] <macogw> icesword: yes
[01:20] <secretlondon> macogw: the link I posted has the debugging info
[01:20] <icesword> macogw, how
[01:20] <frank23> icesword: only if you haven't installed any packages which are not in the default install I think
[01:20] <macogw> icesword: should be able to. just disable your interweb repos, add the cd as a repo, and do the usual gsku "update-manger -d"
[01:20]  * secretlondon adds a ME TOO against the new minimal xorg.conf
[01:21] <macogw> secretlondon: oh right...link
[01:21] <icesword> macogw, hmmm,ok
[01:21] <secretlondon> macogw: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingSystemCrash
[01:21] <secretlondon> if the x autoconfig works then cool, but it doesn't when I've used it
[01:21] <icesword> macogw,the command is "gksu update-manager -d" right
[01:21] <secretlondon> thankfully you can still add stuff to xorg.conf if needed
[01:22] <macogw> icesword: yeah
[01:22] <icesword> k
[01:22] <macogw> my experience of the config tool for low graphics mode thing is that it breaks X worse
[01:23] <macogw> i could manually get 1024x768...that thing just got a black screen
[01:24] <secretlondon> the applet just crashes for me ( see bug #x) and the other one doesn't do anything
[01:24] <secretlondon> however it may be the reason why I'm getting 400x300
[01:24] <secretlondon> on a 1024x768 laptop
[01:25] <macogw> you have a 4:3 laptop? O_o
[01:26] <secretlondon> <- poor
[01:26] <macogw> tall screens are hard to find!
[01:26] <ethana2> I think I should just boot into recovery terminal...
[01:26] <ethana2> but I don't know how to stop userful from comandeering my machine when I boot with gui later
[01:29] <Ng> macogw: until very recently all laptops were 4:3, and lots of the best ones still are (thinkpad x series, for example)
[01:30] <icesword> ! dependencies
[01:30] <ubotwo> How should I know?
[01:30] <icesword> ! dependency
[01:31] <macogw> icesword: nospace
[01:31] <icesword> hmm
[01:31] <cyphase> Hardy isn't even out and i'm already looking forward to Intrepid :S
[01:31] <secretlondon> !dependency
[01:31] <ubotwo> How should I know?
[01:31]  * tonyyarusso is sad that it's Ibex instead of Impala
[01:31] <secretlondon> what do you want to know anyway?
[01:31] <cyphase> especially that "complete interface redesign"
[01:31] <secretlondon> Iguana
[01:32] <icesword> sometimes i messed up with dependency
[01:33] <RAOF> secretlondon: Yeah.  Iguanas are cool.
[01:33]  * secretlondon nods at ROAF
[01:33] <secretlondon> icesword: that's very broad, a bot couldn't answer that (and neither could I)
[01:33]  * RAOF doesn't understand why everyone wants to transpose the 'A' and the 'O' ;)-
[01:34] <icesword> macogw, what do you think of multi-thread download tools?
[01:34] <icesword> secretlondon, no problem
[01:34] <secretlondon> oa is a pattern in English, ao isn't really
[01:34] <Darkmystere> lol....imn still upgrading...
[01:35] <icesword> Darkmystere, hi
[01:35] <Darkmystere> im at sec...going to labtop it froze :/..
[01:35] <secretlondon> darkmystere: new kernel update breaks alsa
[01:35] <icesword> Darkmystere, i am downloading 8.04 alternate cd iso
[01:35] <Darkmystere> well its at 1372....
[01:35] <Darkmystere> thats pretty good...
[01:35] <icesword> i don't listen to music,i don't care
[01:36] <Darkmystere> my labtop froze has ATI Drivers... also i have oss on my labtop..
[01:36] <secretlondon> vorian: are you a channel op?
[01:37] <macogw> icesword: dont know what it means
[01:37] <Darkmystere> its not really froze i can watch the upgrade increase..
[01:37] <Darkmystere> just cant clikc or type..
[01:37] <icesword> macogw, it is a download tool that build multi connections to speed up download
[01:38] <Darkmystere> the upgrade thing..?
[01:38] <icesword> ...
[01:38] <macogw> torrenting?
[01:38] <icesword> no,it is just a download tool
[01:39] <icesword> but it brings much pressure to server
[01:39] <Darkmystere> so my one computer is pulling the server down..
[01:39] <icesword> hehe
[01:40] <Taso> why the hell is sshfs still 1.7 in hardy ?
[01:40] <Taso> you guys do realize you are TWO versions behind?
[01:40] <Taso> and 1.7 is insanely buggy
[01:40] <Taso> does anyone realize this?
[01:40] <secretlondon> if we don't then add to the bug tracker
[01:41] <secretlondon> or try one of the development channels
[01:41] <Darkmystere> 1.7...
[01:41] <Darkmystere> im lost..
[01:42] <secretlondon> darkmystere: apparently our version of sshfs sucks
[01:42] <macogw> Darkmystere: of sshfs
[01:42] <Darkmystere> oh]
[01:42] <Taso> well it sucks and you're behind
[01:43] <Taso> I thought even if it sucked you were supposed to be bleeding edge
[01:43] <cwillu> Taso, sshfs isn't really recommended for use in ubuntu afaik
[01:43] <Taso> LOL
[01:43] <Taso> wtf
[01:43] <Taso> alright, this convo has gotten retared
[01:43] <Taso> lata
[01:43] <secretlondon> it's an lts
[01:43]  * secretlondon shrugs
[01:43] <Mimi> Oh this convo is making my night.
[01:43] <cwillu> :)
[01:43] <cwillu> thank god
[01:43] <secretlondon> we don't do numberitis on an lts
[01:44] <macogw> sshfs isnt even in debian main
[01:44] <biggahed_> so much anger.
[01:44] <cwillu> I was about to suggest he package 1.9 if he needed it so bad :p
[01:44] <secretlondon> -> bug tracker that way
[01:44] <Darkmystere> lo,...
[01:45] <macogw> where's the thing for searching debian's repos anyway?
[01:45] <macogw> there's no link from debian.or
[01:45] <macogw> *.org
[01:45] <secretlondon> package.debina.org
[01:45] <secretlondon> package.debian.org
[01:45] <secretlondon> might be packages
[01:46] <secretlondon> ubuntu's is the same but with a .com
[01:46] <Darkmystere> everyone RUN biggahed_  Is gunna blow!!!
[01:46] <RAOF> http://packages.debian.org/sid/sshfs :)
[01:46] <RAOF> I'm not sure if that goes anywhere, but that'd be how to frame the query :)
[01:46] <RAOF> Oh, look.  1.9-1 :)
[01:46] <secretlondon> yes
[01:46] <cwillu> 1.9 only came out in december (granted that 1.8 came out in 2006)
[01:47] <cwillu> doesn't gvfs have a mount now?
[01:47] <towlie> i went to administration->language support and see the language i want to add but how do i actually add it  ? im on hardy heron
[01:47] <macogw> towlie: should just check the box
[01:48] <towlie> what do u mean ? theres no check box
[01:48] <cwillu> aka, gvfs obsoletes sshfs completely?
[01:48] <macogw> towlie: yes there is...
[01:48] <towlie> not for me
[01:48] <macogw> on the right
[01:48] <macogw> languages list down the left, checkboxes are to the right
[01:48] <towlie> nope dont have any
[01:49] <Jordan_U> cwillu, I don't know much ( read almost anything ) about gvfs, but does it allow you to actually mount (as in with a mount point) ?
[01:49] <Jordan_U> cwillu, Because if not then it doesn't obsolete sshfs
[01:50] <cwillu> Jordan_U, my impression was that they added a mount point in a hidden dircetory in the home folder so allow interoperability
[01:50] <cwillu> haven't played with it yet
[01:50] <Jordan_U> cwillu, Just wondering about the "virtual" in gvfs ( if that's even what the 'v' stands for :)
[01:50] <macogw> towlie: http://img442.imageshack.us/my.php?image=languagesdl6.png doesnt look like that?
[01:51] <towlie> no
[01:51] <biggahed_> actually, i was talking about that guy... anyway, off to sleep. bye
[01:51] <towlie> theres no checkbox after each language
[01:51] <RAOF> Yes, it is what the 'v' stands for.  And gvfs doesn't obsolete sshfs entirely, because not everyone has Gnome (or glib) ;)
[01:51] <macogw> towlie: try making the window wider...maybe it's getting cut off?
[01:51] <secretlondon> yes
[01:51] <cwillu> RAOF, well, for the purposes of a ubuntu desktop environment
[01:52] <towlie> macogw, ok that was it
[01:52] <macogw>  towlie haha i just noticed my screenshot thing was still visible on top
[01:53] <macogw> anyone else notice that the option for just the current window on the gnome screenshot thing doesnt do just the current window lately?  its been taking the whole desktop
[01:53] <RAOF> cwillu: Oh, yes.  Maybe not for KDE, though.  And gvfs is still a bit rough around the edges.
[01:53] <cwillu> RAOF, honestly, sshfs is pretty rough around the edges too
[01:54] <cwillu> I just think it's generally solving the wrong problem
[01:55] <WorkingOnWise> Well, this is interesting. I now have both cores active, and full 3d, but a plack desktop with nothing on it! Do we know yet where the problem lies?
[01:57] <DanaG> What's the whole point of gvfs over gnome-vfs, anyway?
[01:57] <Dr_Willis> weirdness.. smbfuse started working.. :)
[01:57] <cwillu> gvfs is a much cleaner design
[01:58] <RAOF> And is more desktop-agnostic.
[01:59] <RAOF> gio is in the glib layer, which any sensible C programmer includes reflexively.
[02:02] <hmuller> The last batch of kernel / modules updates just broke alsa.  Lots of errors recorded in dmesg.
[02:03] <DanaG> Known issue.
[02:03] <DanaG> Somebody should put it in the topic, if it isn't already there.
[02:05] <cwillu> funny, somebody was just telling me the other day that hardy was alpha only in name, it was really beta, and practically rc :)
[02:05] <cwillu> I laughed
[02:06] <cwillu> and started installing the update to unbreak network-manager that had just been released :)
[02:06] <DanaG> √♥ = ?
[02:07] <Jordan_U> DanaG, http://xkcd.com/55/
[02:08] <Jordan_U> Should I have the package openoffice.org-hyphenation-en-us installed?
[02:08] <ethana2> cwillu: I tell people that
[02:08] <ethana2> cwillu: ..and I use it like it's post release
[02:08] <ethana2> cwillu: ...then my sound broke
[02:08] <ethana2> should I feel bad?
[02:08] <cwillu> ethana2, only if you complain when it breaks :p
[02:08] <ethana2> no, but gutsy's drivers were so old
[02:09] <ethana2> nothing else would work
[02:09] <ethana2> I don't, I file bugs
[02:09] <cwillu> then you shouldn't feel bad
[02:09] <ethana2> hardy is more stable than gutsy on all of our hardware
[02:09] <ethana2> heck
[02:09] <ethana2> gutsy doesn't even /work/ on my desktop
[02:09] <cwillu> just don't recommend it to people based on your good experiences
[02:09] <ethana2> xorg bug
[02:09] <ethana2> oh, ok
[02:09] <cwillu> because it breaks on other people's machines, and nobody on #ubuntu will know how to fix it
[02:09] <ethana2> ah
[02:11] <Jordan_U> Should I have the package openoffice.org-hyphenation-en-us installed?
[02:11] <ethana2> just do what update manager tells you
[02:11] <cwillu> ethana2, think of it this way:  you're helping somebody on #ubuntu, that means they didn't really know where all the resources they need are.  And so you tell them to ugprade to hardy.  How will they help themselves?
[02:11] <ethana2> if it wants to remove stuff, let it
[02:12] <cwillu> Jordan_U, just do the partial upgrade when it mentions it (although right now is a bad time re: alsa breakage)
[02:12] <ethana2> well if they're asking why gutsy doesn't work on their latitude d830
[02:12] <ethana2> what am I to tell them?  'patch your x'
[02:13] <ethana2> I think ubuntu should get bi-monthly maintenance releases
[02:13] <ethana2> with new drivers and such but no overhauls
[02:13]  * ethana2 goes to eat dinner now
[02:13] <cwillu> that it's broken right now, but'll probably be working when hardy comes out; they're welcome to try it, but it may be more trouble than its worth right now
[02:13] <ethana2> oh, ok
[02:14] <Andre_Gondim> Jordan_U, http://en.andregondim.eti.br/?p=17
[02:16] <cwillu> ethana2, http://www.linlap.com/wiki/Dell+Latitude+D830 claims that the video works fine with the restricted driver, and the backported kernel modules should fix the sound
[02:16] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> Bug #200338
[02:16] <ubotwo> Launchpad bug 200338 in linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.24 "no sound hardy kernel 2.6.24-12 " [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/200338
[02:16] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> :(
[02:17] <cwillu> [Hardy]TuTUXG, reboot into an older kernel for now might work
[02:17] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> cwillu, ya, thanks
[02:18] <Raspberry> Anybody else use Xournal?
[02:19] <Raspberry> Seems as though the drawing functionality is broken
[02:19] <Raspberry> I wish they'd hurry up and release the new MESA drivers and fix my WINE problems :)
[02:20] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> Raspberry, wine still not working?
[02:20] <Raspberry> nope -- it's not Wine
[02:21] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> um?
[02:21] <Raspberry> or it is wine :P
[02:21] <Raspberry> it's MESA throwing something to WINE or visa versa
[02:21] <Jordan_U> Should I have the package openoffice.org-hyphenation-en-us installed?
[02:21] <cwillu> wine is running now
[02:21] <Raspberry> right it's not SegFaulting anymore :)
[02:21] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> cwillu, .9.57?
[02:21] <Raspberry> like it was in 0.9.55
[02:21] <cwillu> :)
[02:22] <cwillu> small victories :)
[02:22] <cwillu> !package wine
[02:22] <ubotwo> How should I know?
[02:22] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> lol
[02:22] <cwillu> yrou're the bot
[02:22] <Raspberry> yeah 0.9.57 works but you can't use 3d wine apps w/ an intel video card or any card that uses the MESA libaries
[02:22] <Raspberry> !pkg wine
[02:22] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> Raspberry, how about nv cards?
[02:22] <cwillu> thanks
[02:22] <Raspberry> [Hardy]TuTUXG: nvidia has their own gl library that they load -- so it's not an issue
[02:23] <RAOF> Raspberry: Is it any MESA card, or just the broken intel driver.  The related bug doesn't seem like it's necessarily MESA wide.
[02:23] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> Raspberry, cool
[02:23] <DanaG> Jordan_U: You're right about that xkcd comic... that's the one I was thinking of.
[02:24] <Raspberry> it's in MESA
[02:24] <Raspberry> from freedesktop
[02:24] <Raspberry> it's not a intel issue
[02:24] <Raspberry> tuxracer runs very poorly right now ... 2-3fps
[02:24] <Raspberry> tuxcart is much better but I'm having all kinds of texture issues
[02:24] <DanaG> Oh, so Wine is no longer segfaulting?  Good, then I can upgrade it.
[02:25] <cwillu> :)
[02:25] <RAOF> Oh, you didn't use forbid-version?  It's been fixed for a while :)
[02:26] <DanaG> I had locked it.  Also, update-manager ignores Forbids marked by aptitude.
[02:27] <DanaG> Currently I have 0.9.46-0ubuntu1 installed; the Hardy repos have 0.9.56-0ubuntu1.
[02:27] <icesword> hmm,i disabled all internet repos,and insert hardy cd iso,now it began automatically upgrade
[02:27] <Jordan_U> Should I have the package openoffice.org-hyphenation-en-us installed?
[02:28] <icesword> now at setting software channels ,hope nothing is wrong
[02:29] <cwillu> Jordan_U, why?
[02:30] <DanaG> Heh, HP has RTL versions of their wallpapers.
[02:31] <BaD_CrC> quick question... has there been a channel made yet for discussions on the adventures of Grumpy Groundhog?
[02:32] <cwillu> #ubuntu-offtopic?  or did you want something more specific? :p
[02:32] <BaD_CrC> news and info
[02:32] <BaD_CrC> i've searched the forums, google, and other places
[02:33] <Jordan_U> cwillu, It's being held back and I think I only had it because I hacked a solution to the open-office conflict a while ago, I think it would have been removed had I waited for the official fix
[02:33] <BaD_CrC> i run debian/sid (unstable) on 3 of my boxes and it's great, but i don't get the same love from the debian community that i get from the ubuntu community. :)
[02:34] <cwillu> Jordan_U, if you remove it, does it remove ubuntu-desktop?
[02:34] <cwillu> or anything else important looking?
[02:34] <cwillu> !pastebin
[02:34] <ubotwo> pastebin is a service to post multiple-lined texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic)
[02:35] <Jordan_U> cwillu, No
[02:35] <cwillu> @lart BaD_CrC
[02:35] <DanaG> @lart?
[02:35] <cwillu> bah
[02:35] <DanaG> l@rt
[02:35] <BaD_CrC> hah
[02:35] <cwillu> join #ubuntu-offtopic so I can @lart you :p
[02:36] <BaD_CrC> i auto-join -offtopic... :) and you were DENIED!
[02:36] <lime4x4> bluetooth disconnects after screen saver activates even installed the latest bluetooth packages from gluez.org still disconnects
[02:36] <cwillu> !ubotu
[02:36] <ubotwo> I am ubotu, all-knowing infobot. You can browse my brain at http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi - Usage info: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBots
[02:36] <cwillu> you are not
[02:37] <BaD_CrC> i haven't checked brainstorm yet. brb
[02:43] <DanaG> AAAAAAArgh!
[02:43] <DanaG> I am <expletive> sick and tired of my <expletive> keys getting stuck!
[02:44]  * DanaG calls that a CRITICAL issue, not just "High".
[02:44]  * BaD_CrC changes Urgency from CRITICAL -> Resolved
[02:45] <DanaG> On what?
[02:45]  * BaD_CrC bashes DanaG over the head with a MS ergonomic keyboard
[02:45] <ethana2> ...using the colemak keyboard layout
[02:45] <Jordan_U> DanaG, I think "CRITICAL" is when you loose files, or at least when you can't boot, inconvenience != "CRITICAL" :)
[02:45] <DanaG> ...and watches Xorg think DELETE is stuck, so it deletes all his documents.
[02:45] <ethana2> those ergonomic keys.. you can't just rearrange them...
[02:45] <DanaG> (That hasn't happened to me, but some people HAVE had it delete e-mails.)
[02:46] <DanaG> And try saving your work when shift-super gets stuck.
[02:46] <ethana2> ...not that the layout of a keyboard matters when you're getting hit over the head with it..
[02:46] <DanaG> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/124406
[02:47] <ubotwo> Launchpad bug 124406 in ubuntu "Keyboard keys get stuck and repeat (Feisty, Gutsy) (dup-of: 194214)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[02:47] <ubotwo> Launchpad bug 194214 in xorg-server "Keys get "stuck" down" [High,Confirmed]
[02:47] <DanaG> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/190934
[02:47] <ubotwo> Launchpad bug 190934 in libgnomekbd "[hardy] keyboard modifiers randomly forgotten" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[02:47] <DanaG> Both are related, but not marked as such.
[02:48] <DanaG> aaaaaayay, i just managed to get my delete key stuck by pressing it and scrolling at the same time.
[02:49] <DanaG> time to restart xorg, or i'll have my whole desktop emptied of files.
[02:50] <DanaG> Oh, and how do you make gvfs forget passwords?
[02:56] <DanaG> DAMNIT!
[02:56] <DanaG> Now my ctrl key got stuck.
[02:56] <teamcobra> hey everyone, just updated, and I love it ;)
[02:57] <DanaG> yes $F-WORD
[02:57] <Jordan_U> teamcobra, for now... :)
[02:57] <icesword> cannot finish alternate cd upgrade,main.log said you want to keep some file,but they crashed dependencies,upgrade cannot continue
[02:58] <teamcobra> well, the only thing that doesn't work is the conexant hsf crapware modem driver, ohwell
[02:58] <Jordan_U> icesword, Can you ask that question again, as multiple sentences?
[02:58] <icesword> hmm?
[02:59] <teamcobra> I do however, want to remaster it...... any pointers?
[03:00] <DanaG> There isn't even a developer comment that says "We're looking into it" for that bug.
[03:00] <RAOF> DanaG: Your keyboard seems to get stuck much, much more than mine.  I need to really work to stick my keyboard.
[03:01] <RAOF> DanaG: Or maybe you just use the mouse + keyboard simultaneously much more than me...
[03:01] <icesword> this is: ERROR Dist-upgrade failed: 'E cannot correct the error,because you want to keep some file,and it is they crashed dependencies
[03:01] <icesword> Jordan_U,
[03:01] <DanaG> Yeah.
[03:01] <DanaG> I use compiz with zoomy stuff and such.
[03:02] <DanaG> Also, I have the "wobble on beep" thing set, so that puts a bit of load on the system when pressing things like 'tab' in console.
[03:02] <icesword> Jordan_U, this is: ERROR Dist-upgrade failed: 'E cannot correct the error,because you want to keep some file,and it is they crashed dependencies
[03:02] <DanaG> It doesn't happen too much under "normal" usage such as browsing, but when I feel like doing things with Compiz, or such, then it does happen.
[03:04] <RAOF> What would really help is to be able to find what's actually wrong... there was kernel.org bug linked on one of the relavent bugs, it may well be that bug.
[03:06] <DanaG> http://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9448
[03:06] <ubotwo> bugzilla.kernel.org bug 9448 in Input Devices "Sometimes keys are not released" [High,New]
[03:07] <Andre_Gondim> in the last update my sound card disappear
[03:08] <Jordan_U> DanaG, Wow, I'm surprised that it's a kernel level problem
[03:08] <DanaG> Another two comments on the bug 124406:   "BTW. Whose bright idea was it to make this a dupe of a bug filed much later?  If it was due to additional/better information, it should be filed in the bug people are all subscribed to...        Heck.  All of us are commenting here because we searched for a bug and found this one and commented here instead.  The duping seems to be rewarding naughty behaviour."
[03:08] <ubotwo> Launchpad bug 124406 in ubuntu "Keyboard keys get stuck and repeat (Feisty, Gutsy) (dup-of: 194214)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/124406
[03:08] <ubotwo> Launchpad bug 194214 in xorg-server "Keys get "stuck" down" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/194214
[03:09] <DanaG> It does only seem to happen with mouse+keyboard, for some reason -- at least, it rarely happens with just keyboard.
[03:15] <secretlondon> arggh my very recent xbug has just been filed against the trident driver - this means it'll never get fixed :(
[03:15] <secretlondon> danaG the master bug sin't the earliest, it's th best
[03:17] <RAOF> DanaG: I can only reproduce with mouse+keyboard, which is one reason why I *didn't* attach to various bugs.
[03:18] <RAOF> It's also why I'm not certain that kernel bug isn't actually our bug.
[03:20] <DanaG> I also only get it with mouse+keyboard.
[03:22] <RAOF> The kernel bug was originally a guy who would lose keyup events just typing on the keyboard.
[03:24] <DanaG> Hmm.  Oh yeah, and the older bug on LP seemed to have more (quantity AND quality) comments
[03:24] <hmm> hmm
[03:27] <DanaG> WTF?  My system-monitor applet is gone!
[03:27] <DanaG> Aargh!
[03:29] <cwillu> transmission's throttling is, um, interesting :)
[03:30] <ethana2> ...does it use encryption as needed?
[03:30] <DanaG> Okay, now I definitely CAN cause it with just keyboard.
[03:30] <DanaG> Just hold ctrl-w in firefox.
[03:31] <DanaG> With a good number of tabs open, of course.
[03:31] <cwillu> DanaG, afaik, a duped bug puts everyone on the original on the new bug
[03:35] <yao_ziyuan> users of kubuntu 8.04 be aware: your default wallpaper may be in wrong aspect ratio (those curves should be circular). download a copy of "tend to zero" for your own screen resolution at vladstudio's website
[03:35]  * [Hardy]TuTUXG is wondering how to make gtk2 menubox with round corners
[03:35] <DanaG> tend to zero?
[03:35] <yao_ziyuan> yes
[03:36] <yao_ziyuan> that wallpaper is created by vladstudio, originally titled "Tend To Zero"
[03:36] <DanaG> aah, google images.
[03:37] <yao_ziyuan> the original copy is http://www.vladstudio.com/wallpaper/?288
[03:39] <yao_ziyuan> compare the aspect ratio of curves in the original copy and that of your current
[03:39] <yao_ziyuan> wallpaper
[03:40] <DanaG> I'm on Ubuntu so I don't have that wallpaper, but it is a nice one.
[03:44] <Darkmystere> Could Gusty -> Hardy Upgrade Make me not able to Use Kyeboard of click anything but able to watch stuff move
[03:44] <Darkmystere> and move the mouse..
[03:45] <hydrogen> you tell us
[03:45] <hydrogen> I'm sure the answer is yes
[03:45] <hydrogen> because you are asking the question
[03:45] <pen> hi
[03:46] <pen> I have something wrong with my sound.
[03:46] <ethana2> yes
[03:46] <ethana2> use the kernel before the last one
[03:46] <ethana2> in grub
[03:46] <pen> Once I upgrade from gusty
[03:46] <ethana2> reboot and hit the down arrow twice
[03:46] <ethana2> oh.
[03:46] <pen> it can't detect the sound device anymore
[03:46] <pen> so I have no sound right now
[03:46] <ethana2> so you just went straight from gutsy
[03:46] <ethana2> to the latest kernel
[03:46] <ethana2> I'm sorry
[03:46] <Pici> Anyone happen to know the bug # on the sound issue?
[03:46] <ethana2> because the last kernel broke sound
[03:46] <pen> how should I fix this?
[03:47] <Pici> pen: wait.
[03:47] <ethana2> and you don't have the one right before it
[03:47] <ethana2> just wait
[03:47] <ethana2> yes
[03:47] <DanaG> Use the Gutsy kernel, for now.
[03:47] <pen> but I upgrade this two days before
[03:47] <pen> it worked
[03:47] <ethana2> oh good
[03:47] <pen> I install this for the second time
[03:47] <ethana2> then use that kernel instead
[03:47] <ethana2> oh
[03:47] <DanaG> Oh, do you have the .24-11 kernel?
[03:47] <ethana2> crud
[03:47] <pen> then it's not working
[03:47] <ethana2> nevermind then
[03:47] <pen> yea
[03:47] <Pici> pen: Yes, Hardy is still in alpha. Things will break
[03:47] <DanaG> The 11 works fine.
[03:47] <pen> that's strange
[03:47] <pen> it detected device before now it doesn't
[03:47] <ethana2> right
[03:47] <pen> how should I fix this
[03:48] <pen> reinstall alsa?
[03:48] <ethana2> ...unless you can code
[03:48] <ethana2> you can't
[03:48] <ethana2> basically
[03:48] <ethana2> but it will be fixed soon
[03:48] <Pici> pen: Its a kernel issue, the latest update broke sound in some way.
[03:48] <Darkmystere> is there a way to pause the upgrade...?
[03:48] <ethana2> just use another kernel version
[03:48] <Pici> ethana2: do you have a bug #?
[03:48] <pen> well, the difference between these upgrades is that the later one has xp on the other partition
[03:48] <ethana2> nope
[03:48] <ethana2> I just ran into it
[03:48] <pen> Pici: ok
[03:48] <Pici> Me too... :)
[03:48] <pen> Pici: maybe xp partition break it?
[03:49] <Pici> pen: no.
[03:49] <pen> Pici: you sure?
[03:49] <Pici> pen: My sound isnt working either.
[03:49] <pen> Pici: strange
[03:50] <Darkmystere> it breaks alsa..
[03:50] <Darkmystere> Pici, Hardy Breaks alsa..
[03:50] <axisys> !qemu
[03:50] <secretlondon> loading the -11 kernel from grub should give you your sound back
[03:50] <ubotwo> qemu is an emulator you can use to run another operating system - see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WindowsXPUnderQemuHowTo
[03:50] <pen> can I use the old kernel and have my sound back?
[03:50] <secretlondon> pen: you should be able to - watch out for a message from grub when you boot
[03:50] <axisys> is there new method to install qemu + kqemu ?
[03:51] <pen> secretlondon: what do you mean?
[03:51] <pen> omg
[03:51] <pen> it's really the kernel
[03:51] <pen> is there a way to switch back to -11?
[03:51] <secretlondon> pen when you boot after the bios and before you get the splash screen there will be a message from grub which will say something like press escape for the menu
[03:52] <pen> secretlondon: well I have the menu displayed
[03:52] <secretlondon> press the key and choose the -11 kernel, otherwise it'll boot the -12 kernel
[03:52] <pen> secretlondon: cool
[03:52] <pen> ok
[03:52] <pen> I will boot back to 11
[03:52] <secretlondon> pen: and that should work
[03:52] <pen> k
[03:52] <pen> thx
[03:52] <DanaG> vladstudio has some awesome pictures.
[03:52] <DanaG> http://www.vladstudio.com/tr/wallpaper/?542
[03:52] <pen> cya
[03:52] <pen> brb
[03:56] <Darkmystere> should installing all 1506 Upgrades take long
[03:56] <Darkmystere> lol
[03:56] <Darkmystere> are there any guides to making patches..im not sure how to make one if i find a fix..
[03:57] <Pici> The sound issue is bug 200338  for those interested.
[03:57] <ubotwo> Launchpad bug 200338 in linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.24 "no sound hardy kernel 2.6.24-12 " [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/200338
[03:57] <secretlondon> darkmystere: packaging guide
[03:58] <secretlondon> darkmystere: they need to be debdiffs
[03:58] <pen> hi
[03:58] <pen> I'm back
[03:58] <Darkmystere> debdiffs..
[03:58] <pen> I don't have -11
[03:58] <pen> I have only 12
[03:58] <pen> I still have no sound in -12
[03:58] <secretlondon> pen: you have nothing else in the menu?
[03:58] <secretlondon> pen: nobody has sound in 12
[03:58] <pen> the old kernel is from gusty
[03:59] <secretlondon> so 12 is your first hardy kernel?
[03:59] <pen> yea
[03:59] <pen> I just installed it today
[03:59] <secretlondon> then you'll have to wait the 24 hours (if that) until they fix it
[03:59] <Pici> I personally am just going to wait until this is fixed, I can live without sound for a bit.,
[03:59] <secretlondon> it's alpha software, it does this!
[03:59] <pen> can't I go back to 11 from synaptics?
[03:59] <secretlondon> you can try
[04:00] <pen> I mean to install the 11 from synaptics
[04:00] <secretlondon> pen: try it
[04:00] <pen> what is the keyword?
[04:00] <pen> linux?
[04:00] <secretlondon> linux
[04:00] <pen> ok
[04:00] <pen> btw, the cdrom bug hasn't been fixed yet
[04:01] <Pici> What cdrom bug?
[04:01] <pen> if I leave my cdrom empty it will crash very oftem
[04:01] <pen> if I leave my cdrom empty it will crash very often
[04:01] <macogw> that sucks
[04:01] <pen> yea
[04:01] <macogw> that sucks
[04:01] <macogw> :)
[04:01] <Pici> pen: Is there a bug filed for that?
[04:01] <pen> I have no idea why that happens
[04:01] <pen> it has been filed for awhile
[04:02] <pen> in gusty i think
[04:02] <pen> feisty I dont' know
[04:02] <pen> maybe
[04:02] <pen> they just can't seem to fix it
[04:03] <pen> hey, how to check the exact number of the kernel I'm having right now?
[04:03] <Pici> pen: uname -a
[04:03] <pen> k
[04:03] <pen> thx
[04:03] <DanaG> Oooh: http://www.vladstudio.com/tr/wallpaper/?450
[04:03] <pen> <IP_ADDRESS>.11 is in the synaptics
[04:03] <pen> should I install that?
[04:04] <lunks> Apparently Transmission is not mapping port I chose correctly on my UPNP router.
[04:04] <thoreauputic> pen the update seems to come with a broken alsa as well, at the moment :)
[04:05] <lunks> I can confirm UPNP is enabled on my router as another machine is configuring it and shows on the log.
[04:05] <lunks> But looks like transmission is not. Can I somehow test UPNP on Ubuntu Hardy?
[04:05] <thoreauputic> lunks: does transmission do UPNP? I always just forward ports as needed, so I don't know
[04:06] <secretlondon> thoreauputic: its -12 that has the broken sound, pen is trying to get an earlier kernel
[04:06] <lunks> thoreauputic, check tooltip of 'automatically map ports'
[04:06] <pen> secretlondon: which one should I mark? and is there any other packages I need too? like the header...
[04:06] <thoreauputic> secretlondon: right, I missed that, thanks
[04:06] <lunks> NAT transversal uses either NAT-PMP or UPnP
[04:07] <secretlondon> pen: if you select one (not the header) then the rest should be pulled in as dependencies (I hope)
[04:07] <pen> what is the name? there are so many I'm confused
[04:07] <secretlondon> pen: the bug is on linux-ubuntu-modules
[04:08] <thoreauputic> *sigh* finally got the framebuffer to behave, so now there's a new kernel + broken sound... the joys of alpha software
[04:08] <thoreauputic> ;)
[04:09] <secretlondon> thoreauputic: I have 400x300 on my hardy box
[04:09] <secretlondon> from yesterday
[04:09] <thoreauputic> oops
[04:09] <secretlondon> they are saying it's an x bug, but x hasn't been updated since the 28th
[04:09]  * secretlondon thinks it is gnome as it dosn't do it on gdm
[04:10] <thoreauputic> I'm not actually running X on Hardy -  I'm making a Live cd without X
[04:10] <thoreauputic> a new one based on Hardy, hopefully
[04:11] <secretlondon> the kernel cd has no X, but that's not a live CD afaik
[04:11] <thoreauputic> secretlondon:  http://inx.maincontent.net  <-- the beta is based on feisty
[04:11] <thoreauputic> secretlondon: That one works OK :)
[04:12] <secretlondon> :)
[04:12] <pen> after I mark and install the packages, will it update the grub automatically?
[04:12] <thoreauputic> the hardy one is in development, obviously
[04:13] <pen> I mean the linux-* packages
[04:13] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> pen, ys
[04:13] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> yes*
[04:13] <thoreauputic> pen: normally a kernel install updates grub post install, yes
[04:13] <pen> ok
[04:14] <secretlondon> thoreauputic: I think the not shutting down properly thing is an acpi bug and hardware dependent
[04:14] <pen> I'm installing linux-headers-2.6.24-11, linux-headers-2.6.24-11-386, linux-image-2.6.24-11-386, linux-restricted-modules-2.6.24-11-386, linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.24-11-386
[04:15] <secretlondon> ok
[04:15] <pen> am I missing something?
[04:15] <secretlondon> looks ok
[04:15] <pen> ok
[04:15] <thoreauputic> secretlondon: ah, right - well interestingly the hardy version shuts down cleanly so far
[04:15] <thoreauputic> secretlondon: at least that works ;p
[04:15] <secretlondon> :P
[04:16] <thoreauputic> however, the new CD is nearly ten MB bigger with the same packages... bloat!
[04:16] <thoreauputic> heh
[04:18] <thoreauputic> secretlondon: give the INX beta a spin and mail me with bug reports, or just send cookies, or beer :)
[04:19]  * secretlondon buts in a request for beer, pizza and cookies
[04:19] <secretlondon> puts
[04:19] <thoreauputic> The SBAP protocol  ? (Send Beer and Pizza)
[04:29] <pen> hi
[04:29] <pen> I'm back
[04:29] <pen> I got my sound back
[04:29] <pen> :D
[04:29] <secretlondon> YAY!
[04:31] <pen> and seems like 386 fix my cdrom problem too :D
[04:31] <pen> I dont' know why ubuntu kernel always comes with generic...
[04:31] <pen> it's so buggy
[04:32] <RAOF> pen: Because the _other_ kernel is -386, which is crippled.
[04:32] <pen> RAOF: ??
[04:33] <pen> RAOF: 386 works with my laptop
[04:33] <pen> I think
[04:35] <RAOF> pen: Oh, it'll _work_.  But it'll be slower (no SMP, no optimisations, etc).
[04:35] <pen> RAOF: what are they?
[04:35] <DanaG> Woah, I haev 81,444 load cycles on my hard drive.
[04:36] <DanaG> Nothing works to stop load cycling.
[04:37] <Raspberry> how do you check that?
[04:37] <RAOF> pen: Optimisations?  Compiler tricks to make everything faster :)
[04:38] <Raspberry> no load cycles
[04:38] <Raspberry> brb going to see if -12 causes problems
[04:39] <DanaG> sudo smartctl --all /dev/sda | grep Cycle
[04:40] <DanaG> pdflush and kblockd severely abuse the hard drive by idling, un-idling, idling, un-idling, idling, un-idling, idling, un-idling, idling, un-idling, idling, un-idling, idling, un-idling, idling, un-idling, idling, un-idling, idling, un-idling, idling, un-idling, ... you get the point.
[04:41] <DanaG> I have "commit=300" set so it should let the drive idle for 5 minutes, but it doesn't!
[04:41] <DanaG> It seems to ignore the option.
[04:43] <Raspberry> so how do we get sound working again in kernel -12? :)
[04:43] <secretlondon> raspberry: go back to -11
[04:43] <secretlondon> or wait
[04:43] <Raspberry> "No volume control GStreamer plugins and/or devices found"
[04:43] <Pici> bug 200338
[04:43] <ubotwo> Launchpad bug 200338 in linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.24 "no sound hardy kernel 2.6.24-12 " [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/200338
[04:43] <Raspberry> sound quit working while I was in -11 which is why I rebooted into 12
[04:43] <Raspberry> :)
[04:44] <secretlondon> well the bug is in 12
[04:44] <Raspberry> since I performed the last alsa-base update earlier today
[04:44] <Raspberry> k
[04:44] <Raspberry> I'll reboot into 11
[04:44] <Raspberry> brb
[04:45] <Raspberry> bummer the laptop brightness issue isn't fixed in -12 either
[04:45] <Raspberry> that was caused when updating to -11 :P
[04:58] <ethana2> finally running working dual seat
[05:01] <ethana2> so userful works
[05:02] <ethana2> in fact, now that it has decided to work
[05:02] <ethana2> it seems to be working quite well
[05:02] <ethana2> ha. ha. ha.
[05:03] <tonyyarusso> hey, someone who actually uses that.
[05:03] <tonyyarusso> (a LoCo person I've interacted with on IRC in the past used to work there)
[05:04] <ethana2> yes
[05:04] <ethana2> and now that i finally got working dual seat
[05:04] <ethana2> i'm using one gpu for both
[05:04] <ethana2> not what i wanted, but closer than ever
[05:04] <ethana2> what else am i going to use?
[05:04] <ethana2> the terminal?
[05:05] <ethana2> i tried that.  torture.  Screens and Graphics?  it can take it down, but it can't do much else
[05:05] <ethana2> it needs to be part of the OS
[05:05] <ethana2> because it /can/ be
[05:05] <ethana2> all userful does is set config files
[05:06] <ethana2> ...correct?
[05:10] <DanaG> blktrace is odd -- it seems to build up a scrollFORWARD buffer, and only show the contents when you hit ctrl-c.
[05:14] <DanaG> Odd: my hard drive never seems to spin down, even when it's actually idle.
[05:17] <DanaG> Oddly enough, if I spin it down manually (with hdparm -y), it actually spins down.
[05:21] <steintr> Hi all -- just got forwarded here from #ubuntu...
[05:21] <steintr> I ran the hardy upgrade today, and somehow seem to have messed up my X server config.
[05:21] <Raspberry> sound is back in -11...
[05:22] <Raspberry> my brightness on my laptop LCD is set to the lowest setting and it won't change
[05:22] <Raspberry> any suggestions?
[05:22] <steintr> displayconfig-gtk doesn't seem to write a Driver line to xorg.conf --- is there somewhere else I can check what it's using?
[05:22] <macogw> -12 is still being held back for me
[05:22] <macogw> steintr: lsmod
[05:22] <Raspberry> macogw: don't go to 12 if you want sound
[05:22] <macogw> lsmod | grep "vesa\|fglrx\|ati\|radeon\|intel"
[05:22] <macogw> Raspberry: 12's not even available for me
[05:23] <macogw> maybe its because i'm doing safe-upgrade
[05:23] <macogw> but i can't full-upgrade
[05:23] <macogw> OOo is *still* broken
[05:24] <steintr> macogw: Ok, it's radeon.  Now if I wanted to change it?  Doesn't there still need to be a Driver line somewhere, or am I just misunderstanding new xorg?
[05:24] <macogw> new xorg has no driver line
[05:24] <macogw> do you need fgrlx?
[05:24] <macogw> if so, install the restricted driver from the restricted driver manager and it should automatically reconfigure
[05:25] <DanaG> WTF?  "[   26.036826] kjournald starting.  Commit interval 5 seconds"
[05:25] <steintr> For now, I just want something stable --- I've had three or four X crashes today, which is more than I had in the last year or so.
[05:25] <DanaG> I thought I set the thing to 300 seconds in fstab!
[05:25] <DanaG> And in rootflags!
[05:25] <macogw> my roommate's laptop offers fglrx on gutsy, but that's wrong because hers is supposed to use the radeon driver
[05:25] <DanaG> What the heck?    The first time it booted OK, but I fiddled with the screen resolution and think I may have broken it.
[05:27] <macogw> Raspberry: regarding OOo?  nah openoffice.org-writer2latex has just been in the build queue for 3 days now since they only finally synced it from debian 3 days ago after being broken for 3 days before that
[05:27] <Raspberry> steintr: what video card do you have?
[05:28] <Raspberry> macogw: well it doesn't seem to be broken to me
[05:28] <Darkmystere> And things connected to puython...
[05:28] <Raspberry> macogw: that package is mising, yes... but everything is working
[05:28] <Darkmystere> uh oh.... Could not install the upgrades...
[05:28] <macogw> Raspberry: right well i cant finish an upgrade because that package is missing.
[05:28] <macogw> Raspberry: i dont actually *use* OOo
[05:28] <macogw> that's what LaTeX is for, duh
[05:29] <steintr> Raspberry: ATI Technologies Inc. M52 [Mobility Radeon X1300] (in a Thinkpad T60).
[05:29] <Darkmystere> macogw, What you doing..
[05:29] <Raspberry> steintr: I have X restarts with my Thinkpad X61T but it has an intel x3100 card in it
[05:29] <DanaG> oh, and laptop_mode doesn't actually set /proc/sys/vm/laptop_mode!    It's disabled by default.
[05:30] <macogw> Darkmystere: what do you mean?
[05:31] <DanaG> I'm trying to get it to leave the drive down, actually.
[05:31] <Darkmystere> macogw, Well what question are you talking about..
[05:31] <DanaG> Neither 254 nor 255 stops the unload cycles.
[05:31] <DanaG> So, I figure I might as well let it stay idle for real.
[05:32] <macogw> Darkmystere: oh i said OOo was broken because a missing package is breaking my ability to install updates and Raspberry said it's not broken if OOo still works. i said i dont are if OOo works or not because i don't use OOo, since i have LaTeX, but it's breaking the updates
[05:32] <DanaG> Odd.  It didn't apply battery settings on boot!
[05:32] <DanaG> And I can't seem to change the kjournald interval in dmesg, for some reason -- neither fstab nor rootflags will do it.
[05:34] <Darkmystere> macogw, Oh...lol nice you upgrading to hardy too?
[05:34] <macogw> Darkmystere: ive been running hardy for a week
[05:34] <macogw> Darkmystere: er no...almost 2 weeks
[05:34] <Darkmystere> macogw, im having problems with the installations....lol...
[05:34] <Darkmystere> macogw, lol because its installing out of order..
[05:34] <macogw> Darkmystere: i did a clean install from CD to kill Windoze
[05:35] <Darkmystere> macogw, im thinking of replacing the one im upgrading with a clean install lol... i dont get how everything related to python and gnome-panel...are not being installed because the base of those two havent been configured yet.
[05:36] <steintr> Yet another X crash.  I actually think it might be close to repeatable --- when I accidentally press Shift - Backspace.  (No, not Ctrl-Alt-Backspace)  Weird.
[05:36] <DanaG> Odd: even if I set my spindown time to 5 seconds, the drive never ever spins down -- even if blktrace shows no activity for 30 seconds!
[05:36] <DanaG> That's broken.
[05:37]  * DanaG is at 81510 load cycles.  I wonder... is the click on head load, or on head unload?
[05:37] <macogw> isnt spinning down often a bad thing?
[05:37] <DanaG> The point is, spindown is broken entirely.
[05:38] <macogw> i thought continuing to move or not moving at all were good, but spinning up and down were both bad and the problem with ubuntu's laptop-mode was that it spins down too often
[05:38] <DanaG> Nope, spindown isn't the issue; it's head loading and unloading.
[05:38] <Darkmystere> whats spindown..
[05:38] <DanaG> and loading and unloading and loading and unloading and loading and unloading and loading and unloading and loading and unloading and loading and unloading
[05:38] <macogw> i thought they were the same thing
[05:38] <DanaG> Nope.  One just moves the heads to the side of the disk but leaves it spinning.
[05:39] <DanaG> Another odd thing: I'll do smartctl and see one number, then hear a click a while later, then do smartctl again, and get the same number, and then it'll go up by one if I then do smartctl a third time.
[05:41] <Darkmystere> UH oh..
[05:41] <Darkmystere> someone the upgrade thing just burned down..
[05:41] <macogw> Darkmystere: restart it
[05:41] <macogw> ?
[05:41] <DanaG> it's like Schrödinger's cat.
[05:42] <DanaG> Observing it changes it.
[05:42] <Darkmystere> i thought it was dang cant even thing of a word..
[05:42] <Darkmystere> macogw, when my wndows close i set em to burn..
[05:42]  * DanaG ponders doing 'killall pdflush kjournald'
[05:42] <macogw> Darkmystere: i know. so do mine.
[05:42] <DanaG> DIE, damn you hard drive killing kjournald and pdflush!
[05:43] <Darkmystere> Traceback (most recent call last):
[05:43] <Darkmystere>   File "/usr/bin/update-manager", line 28, in <module>
[05:43] <Darkmystere>     import gtk
[05:43] <Darkmystere> ImportError: No module named gtk
[05:43] <DanaG> I've actually set the commit time to 5 minutes in fstab, but it doesn't take effect!  What's up with that?
[05:43]  * RAOF suggests that the kernel is unlikely to allow you to kill the disc IO subsystem.
[05:43] <macogw> anyone ever heard of "init 5" responding "command not found"? a friend is trying to install gentoo and i'm going O_o because i thought the trouble was an empty /etc/rc5.d until she did that...because that just violates linux in general...
[05:43] <Darkmystere> err is there a terminal version of update-manager..
[05:44] <macogw> Darkmystere: dist-upgrade :P
[05:44] <RAOF> macogw: Maybe she hasn't installed init yet?
[05:44] <Darkmystere> macogw,huh...that says command not found..
[05:44] <macogw> RAOF: she's gonna emerge it now...thing is...im surprised it *turned on* without init
[05:45] <macogw> RAOF: i didnt think it could run at all without it
[05:45] <macogw> Darkmystere: thats not the whole thing...
[05:45] <macogw> Darkmystere: sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
[05:45] <macogw> Darkmystere: just like debian
[05:45] <RAOF> You don't _have_ to boot using init.  One of the easy ways to gain root on a box without a grub password is to tell the kernel to use "bash" as the init.
[05:46] <DanaG> Why the heck is my hard drive never spinning down?
[05:46] <Darkmystere> all them erros..
[05:46] <macogw> RAOF: at that point, why not just tell it "single"?
[05:47] <RAOF> Because you'll need to enter the root password on !Ubuntu?
[05:47] <macogw> no you dont
[05:48] <macogw> i did it yesterday to get a faster boot than waiting for gdm on an old bo
[05:48] <macogw> *box
[05:48] <macogw> recovery mode doesnt require a password
[05:48] <macogw> and all recovery mode says is "single" for the boot parameters
[05:48] <RAOF> What distro?  My understanding was that we _patched out_ the password check for single-user-mode.
[05:49] <macogw> oh that's a not !
[05:49] <macogw> i thought it was an ubotu thing
[05:49] <RAOF> No, no.  Unary boolean operator, there :)
[05:49] <Raspberry> I really don't think they should release Hardy until they fix all the laptop display brightness / sleep / backlight on / off issues
[05:51] <Raspberry> brightness was working and suspend resume backlight functionality was intermittently working prior to kernel -11 and now neither work
[05:51] <Raspberry> if my laptop sits longer than 20 minutes I can't get the backlight back on w/o a ALT+SysRq+K
[05:51] <RAOF> Raspberry: Bug filed?  The kernel team really tries to keep such regressions down.
[05:52] <Raspberry> yes -- everybody else says their issues are fixed when mine started :)
[05:52] <DanaG> Another annoying thing: blktrace is buggy.
[05:52] <DanaG> It'll be working and scrolling, and then randomly stall.
[05:52] <macogw> i think i need to go memorize the alt+sysrq+<letter> combos
[05:52] <DanaG> Then you'll hit ctrl-c and get a "scroll-FORWARD" buffer scrolling by.
[05:52] <macogw> you all seem to know all of them
[05:52] <DanaG> bug 121833
[05:52] <Raspberry> anybody else here use Xournal?  it hasn't worked since I moved to Hardy in Alpha 2
[05:52] <ubotwo> Launchpad bug 121833 in linux "LCD backlight turns off when between discrete levels, both from hotkeys and from dim-on-idle." [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/121833
[05:53] <Raspberry> works in gutsy
[05:54] <RAOF> DanaG: Heh, it's finally fixed for you?
[05:54] <DanaG> Yep.
[05:54] <DanaG> Though now I can't turn my backlight entirely off anymore.
[05:54] <Raspberry> mine just sits at the darkest setting now
[05:54] <DanaG> Though that "feature" is, admittedly, mostly pointless.
[05:55] <Raspberry> the OSD slider moves up and down when I use the Fuction keys, but it doesn't affect the brightness
[05:55] <Raspberry> My problem isn't that the backlight turns off
[05:55] <Raspberry> so 121833 doesn't apply to me
[05:55] <Raspberry> my backlight is on
[05:56] <Raspberry> just at the lowest level
[05:56] <Raspberry> although the last comment on that bug is mine
[05:59] <macogw> mine doesnt go off either
[05:59] <macogw> i just tried it
[05:59] <Adys> could someone with more than one user configured test a quick bug for me?
[05:59] <DanaG> Bad Magic Trace 0
[05:59] <Adys> go to the user switching applet, choose the other user, then when it asks for a password just click quit at the bottom
[06:00] <Adys> it displayed a blank screen, had to force restart x
[06:00] <Frijolie> can you install the weather applet in the date & time from hardy in gutsy?
[06:00] <macogw> Adys: there's no quit button
[06:00] <macogw> it just goes to gdm
[06:01] <Adys> eh?
[06:01] <Frijolie> sorry, did my question make sense? after reading it i'm thinking i didn't get my point across
[06:01] <macogw> Adys: if i choose the other user, it takes me to gdm
[06:01] <Adys> ummm
[06:01] <macogw> that's the only place it asks for the password
[06:01] <Adys> yeah, isnt there a switcher at the bottom left?
[06:01] <DanaG> Raspberry: try looking at the /proc/acpi/video stuff.
[06:01] <macogw> what?
[06:01] <Adys> Im using the default theme, so i dont know
[06:02] <Raspberry> DanaG: they're not using that anymore ... they're using /sys/ now
[06:02] <macogw> i just clicked on the "Guest" account and it went black then took me to gdm.  that just had username/password box
[06:02] <macogw> was it not supposed to take me to gdm?
[06:02] <DanaG> Well, it'll still give an idea of where some brokenness may be.
[06:02] <Adys> mac, one sec
[06:03] <DanaG> If /proc doesn't work either, then the "only use video objects that exist" patch might be the culprit.
[06:03] <leo_rockw> hello everyone
[06:04] <leo_rockw> i was considering updating. i'm in a test environment so i wouldn't mind if everything breaks. i am just looking for an opinion by someone who's already using hardy, how stable is it at this point?
[06:05] <Adys> macogw: At the gdm, you should have somewhere an option to quit
[06:05] <Frijolie> can i get the World Clock Applet from Hardy into Gutsy?
[06:05] <Adys> on the default ubuntu theme it's at the bottom left, but I dont know about the other ones
[06:05] <DanaG> Wow, using laptop_mode on AC actually DOES help the drive stay idle for longer.
[06:06] <macogw> Adys: oh. ok i didnt look there for that...you sure it doesnt mean shut down?
[06:06] <DanaG> Much, much longer, in fact.
[06:06] <Adys> i think its supposed to be shut down
[06:06] <Adys> but its certainly not supposed to mean blank screen for ten mins :)
[06:06] <Mark_Milliman> Has anyone done the latest updates of the kernel to -12?
[06:06] <DanaG> So much longer that I thought blktrace had died, actually.
[06:06] <Adys> Mark_Milliman:  for sound problems, downgrade to 11
[06:07] <Raspberry> !bug 199999
[06:07] <ubotwo> Launchpad bug 199999 in xournal "Cursor moves but does not show drawn line in real-time" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/199999
[06:07] <DanaG> !bug -3
[06:07] <Mark_Milliman> So you knew my next question
[06:07] <Mark_Milliman> must be a bug with AC-97?
[06:07] <DanaG> I wish it would yell at you amusingly, or something, if you gave it a negative number,
[06:07] <DanaG> All ALSA is entirely broken in -12.
[06:07] <Adys> !bug 3.14
[06:07] <Adys> :(
[06:07] <Mark_Milliman> Good thing grub allows multiple kernels
[06:08] <DanaG> !bug π
[06:08] <macogw> Adys: aww i dont wanna reproduce that...
[06:08] <Mark_Milliman> Maybe a new update will be there in the morning
[06:08] <Adys> macogw: if you happen to do just restart x
[06:08] <macogw> Adys: it just brought me back to my usual login
[06:08] <macogw> with my screen locked, though
[06:08] <Adys> hmm
[06:08] <macogw> so electric sheep was going and i had to type in my password
[06:09]  * Mark_Milliman was fat and happy with the -11 kernel
[06:09] <DanaG> Viva la Laptop Mode!
[06:09] <DanaG> It actually helps when on AC.
[06:09] <Raspberry> how can I flag bugs in launchpad as duplicates?
[06:09] <leo_rockw> DanaG: i see you didn't get affected by the "it's killing my HD!" FUD
[06:09] <Adys> need permissions i think
[06:10] <Raspberry> If I assign a bug to me, can I mark it as a duplicate?
[06:10] <RAOF> DanaG: Well, _my_ alsa is pottering along nicely on -12, thank you very much.
[06:10] <Raspberry> because nobody is maintaining this bug -- so it seems like it's just taking up space
[06:10] <Raspberry> duh...
[06:10] <DanaG> BLKTRACESETUP: No such file or directory
[06:10] <Raspberry> it's plain as day right on the LEFT side
[06:10] <DanaG> dang, apparently sigquit permanently breaks blktrace.
[06:11] <RAOF> Raspberry: You'd be after the "mark as duplicate" link down teh left hand side.
[06:13] <Raspberry> yeah I just saw that
[06:13] <Raspberry> thanks :)
[06:14] <Raspberry> the timezone data is all messed up
[06:14] <Raspberry> it has the northeast part of my state assigned to a different time zone because the canadian side of the border is in a different time zone
[06:15] <Raspberry> it's like they're picking timezones based on closest long / lat timezone section ... even if it doesn't match the proper time zone
[06:15] <Raspberry> I found it to be a problem with dozens of cities... and then I quit checking :)
[06:16] <Raspberry> !bug 199976
[06:16] <ubotwo> Launchpad bug 199976 in tzdata "Assumed Timezone is wrong for Hibbing Minnesota" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/199976
[06:16] <secretlondon> raspberry: there are a load of bugs on it
[06:16] <Frijolie> guess you can't...
[06:17] <ethana2> lol
[06:17] <ethana2> I don't know why.. I find that funny
[06:17] <ethana2> it's like 'so... can you find someone else in your hick town to confirm this bug or what?'
[06:17] <Raspberry> ?
[06:17] <ethana2> but i really have no idea how big hibbing is..  it could actually be quite large
[06:18] <ethana2> location specific bugs must be horrible.  that is all ^_^
[06:18] <Raspberry> well I just used that as an actual example so they can reproduce it
[06:18] <ethana2> oh
[06:18] <Raspberry> pick any city in the NE portion of Minnesota
[06:18] <ethana2> who's driving?
[06:18] <Raspberry> they all get assigned to Canada
[06:18] <ethana2> ahhh, ok
[06:18] <Raspberry> which is in a different time zone
[06:18] <ethana2> ...interesting
[06:19] <Raspberry> yeah so it's like the thing is just guessing
[06:19] <Raspberry> which could be messy if you're adding a city from across the globe and the time zone is off -- and you don't know that because you're not familiar with the tz info for that region
[06:19] <Raspberry> I'd rather have no information than blantently inaccurate info
[06:20] <Raspberry> maybe if they said it's just approximating
[06:20] <Raspberry> or something
[06:20] <Raspberry> or leave the timezone blank, but instead the World Clock applet just fills in the incorrect data automatically
[06:23] <Raspberry> ...  man, it's awesome -- I've been working with Adobe developers and patching WINE to make their apps work better :)  They're actually fixing stubs ... we've finally have code behind GetVolumePathNameW and GetMenuBarInfo in WINE!
[06:23] <Raspberry> hopefully it'll make it into 0.9.58
[06:24] <ethana2> WHAT
[06:24] <ethana2> Adobe is being friendly to the penguins?!
[06:24]  * leo_rockw cheers for Gimp
[06:24] <ethana2> I use the GIMP too
[06:24] <ethana2> but this will make those mac/adobe users stop mocking us for our /one/ weak point
[06:24] <ethana2> ha.  ha.  ha.
[06:25]  * leo_rockw changes his mind and cheers for Krita
[06:25] <ethana2> lol, nice
[06:25] <Raspberry> I know :)  I'm an appDB maintainer for Lightroom and I went into the Adobe Forums and was posting some comments requesting testers and troubleshooters and one of the Lightroom Developers contacted me :)
[06:25] <ethana2> Paint.NET in WINE FTW
[06:25] <ethana2> Raspberry: /very/ nice
[06:25] <ethana2> and I thank you
[06:25] <Raspberry> So this Adobe dev is a huge linux user -- that's all he uses at home ... so he's trying to see if they can get an actual build of Lightroom for Linux
[06:25] <Adys> MSPaint in wine !
[06:26] <Adys> All you need really
[06:26] <ethana2> i contacted BYU online and complained about optical disk drive paths not including /dev/cdrom
[06:26] <ethana2> we have our own paint
[06:26] <ethana2> and the GIMP rocks for GUI mockups.  alpha is a must
[06:26] <Adys> it was sarcasm from a hundred miles away
[06:26] <ethana2> ...anyway, we all do what we can; we exist
[06:26] <Raspberry> Lightroom is the best app I've used for sorting / editing / organizing thousands of photos
[06:26]  * secretlondon likes cinepaint an dkrita
[06:27] <ethana2> sweeeeet..  an adobe dev that uses linux exclusively at home
[06:27] <secretlondon> I have a deb in my ppa of gtk2 cinepaint for hardy
[06:27] <ethana2> that's amazing
[06:27] <Raspberry> yeah
[06:27] <Raspberry> I wish they'd hurry up and package iFolder
[06:28] <Raspberry> it's such a mess to build
[06:28] <ethana2> If Adobe makes all their apps native linux
[06:28] <ethana2> which is a huge 'if'
[06:28] <ethana2> ..but they could do like google with picasa..
[06:28] <ethana2> that would really make some people take two
[06:28] <Raspberry> with what Vista did to the Microsoft upgrade process... there are lots of people and companies looking for alternatives
[06:29] <Raspberry> they're talking 2011 release of Windows 7
[06:29] <ethana2> their market share will be dropping by then
[06:29] <secretlondon> ethana2: picasa isn't a native app - it's with wine
[06:29] <ethana2> i'm actually running into other ubuntu users now
[06:29] <ethana2> i know..
[06:29] <ethana2> but you don't have to worry about wine
[06:29] <ethana2> ...so it's /as if/ native
[06:30] <secretlondon> it's still ugly imo
[06:30] <leo_rockw> i wouldn't use photoshop even if it worked properly. i don't have the money to pay the license and i don't like closed source apps
[06:30] <ethana2> ubuntu?
[06:30] <ethana2> leo: same here
[06:30] <secretlondon> real native apps are better, you can tell picasa uses wine
[06:30] <ethana2> oh?
[06:30] <ethana2> feels bloated and buggy does it?
[06:31] <Raspberry> I use GIMP, but there's nothing for linux that compares with Lightroom
[06:31] <Raspberry> Lightzone is crap on linux .. unsupported, closed source, beta ... and it crashes all the time
[06:31] <secretlondon> ethana2: the fonts are wrong, it just doesn't look and feel right
[06:32] <ethana2> oh
[06:32] <ethana2> pathetic integration
[06:32] <ethana2> i can see how that would be ;)
[06:33] <Adys> leo_rockw: the problem is once you've worked with photoshop it's extremely hard to switch to the gimp or anything alike
[06:33] <leo_rockw> i use gimp and krita, but i don't have to feed my children working with those apps
[06:33] <leo_rockw> Adys: i used to use photoshop with winbugs
[06:34] <secretlondon> the gimp isn't that good if you've used anything else
[06:34] <ethana2> i have not
[06:34] <leo_rockw> but like i said, i don't work professionally with photoshop (or gimp or krita)
[06:34] <ethana2> so i think it's awesomely powerful
[06:34] <Adys> its not about being good
[06:34] <Adys> its about being way too different
[06:34] <ethana2> yes
[06:34] <ethana2> they need to abstract the GUI
[06:34] <leo_rockw> i think the gimp is an absolutely awesome app, and i could adapt to it
[06:34] <ethana2> and make one for native gimp people and photoshop people
[06:34] <leo_rockw> ethana2: gimpshop
[06:34] <Adys> theres this gimpshop project
[06:34] <ethana2> instead of making the gimpshop people fork everything
[06:34] <Adys> but its dead, ish
[06:35] <secretlondon> it feels like it was designed for engineers, the brushes and filters are gimmicky. cinepaint actually ships with useful brushes
[06:35] <fr500> !topic
[06:35] <ubotwo> Please read the channel topic whenever you enter, as it contains important information. To view it at any time after joining, simply type /topic
[06:36] <ethana2> fr500: got it, sorry
[06:36]  * leo_rockw secretly hates gimp for starting gtk
[06:36] <fr500> ethana2: it was for me i wanted to read the topic
[06:36] <ethana2> oh.
[06:37] <leo_rockw> lol
[06:37] <ethana2> I thought it was like !o4o
[06:38] <ethana2> leo: we need competition of our own
[06:38] <vega--> fr500: use /topic then? maybe everyone doesn't want to read it..
[06:38] <ethana2> it is because of metacity vs. compiz vs. kwin vs. xfwm vs. fluxbox that we see so much innovation
[06:38] <vega--> there's enough lines scrolling here anyway
[06:38] <fr500> vega yes it was a mistake
[06:39] <ethana2> vega--: that'd be my fault.. i'll try to not be as bothersome
[06:39] <leo_rockw> ethana2: yeah, i agree... it's just that i don't like how gtk looks
[06:40] <ethana2> ...themes?
[06:40] <leo_rockw> ethana2: still, it has that air to it... i can't explain it, it's just a matter of taste.
[06:41] <leo_rockw> ethana2: when i first installed my first linux i installed kde2 and gnome(1?), and i kept kde ever since
[06:41] <ethana2> i switch back and forth constantly
[06:41] <ethana2> now i have an idea that only plasma can actually do
[06:41] <ethana2> ...and that idea won't leave me alone until it sees the light of day
[06:42] <leo_rockw> ethana2: lol... plasma looks good indeed
[06:42] <ethana2> i want to dissect every window into plasmoids
[06:42] <ethana2> and reconfigure all of them
[06:42] <ethana2> merge menu and title and toolbars
[06:43] <ethana2> get rid of status bars, put all application tabs in one global desktop tab bar
[06:44] <leo_rockw> ethana2: do a mockup with gimp, and post it in brainstorm :-)
[06:44] <ethana2> actually
[06:44] <ethana2> i did both
[06:44] <ethana2> but they don't combine
[06:46] <ethana2> leo_rockw: would you like a mockup in progress?
[06:46] <ethana2> i would prefer to email it
[06:46] <leo_rockw> ethana2: def
[06:57] <prasanna> hmmmm i'm got a weird issue after a recent kernel update
[06:57] <prasanna> no audio
[06:57] <RAOF> Join the non-alsa-source using club :)
[06:57] <prasanna> lol was that for me?
[06:57] <secretlondon> prasanna sound is broken in the new kernel
[06:58] <prasanna> oh ok :)
[06:58] <RAOF> ...unless you build alsa-source using module-assistant :)
[06:58] <savvas> <IP_ADDRESS>.11 ?
[06:59] <prasanna> hopefully it gets resolved, tired as hell snowed like 30 cm past day and a half
[07:00] <RAOF> If you really want sound, it's pretty easy.  "sudo aptitude install module-assistant" followed by "sudo module-assistant auto-install alsa-source" should do it.
[07:00] <savvas> in the .11.11 kernel or .12.11?
[07:01] <RAOF> In the * kernel.
[07:01] <user5> again alsamixer is broken?
[07:02] <user5> alsa dont work
[07:02] <RAOF> savvas: If you're asking where it's *broken*, it seems to be the -12 kernel.  But I can't be sure, 'cause it's WorkedForMe(tm), and I had a module-assistant built alsa-source driver package.
[07:03] <savvas> ok
[07:03] <user5> alsa default crashing
[07:04] <user5> all progeam audio and video out e dont using
[07:04] <secretlondon> user5: alsa is broken in current hardy
[07:05] <user5> yes in k -12
[07:08] <Ayabara> When I log into my X session I get an error message about Gnome Settings Manager not being able to start
[07:09] <niklas> I ave screwed up with my install of ubuntu 8.04 alpha 6. I now have problem accessing my old Ubuntu installation that is inside a LVM based partition that also is encrypted. Anyway, encryption is solved. "luksOpen" and so on. Anyway...
[07:09] <niklas> How do I mount a LVM volume?
[07:12] <Raspberry> very carefully
[07:17] <savvas> do you know any network stack control apps/daemons?
[07:18] <savvas> something that limits kb/s that an app uses to a specific amount?
[07:20] <Ayabara> anyone? how can I debug/fix a gnome settings manager that will not start?
[07:20] <savvas> try run it from the terminal
[07:22] <Ayabara> first bad line: The program 'gnome-settings-daemon' received an X Window System error.
[07:23] <niklas> If anyone likes to know, the solution to be able to mount LVM volume is the command "vgchange -ay". Probably is included in the "lvm2" package.
[07:26] <Raspberry> Why can't openoffice open KWord documents
[07:26] <Raspberry> that doesn't make a lick of sense
[07:28] <Raspberry> I have to install Kword to open a document
[07:33] <Raspberry> and KWord won't open :P
[07:44] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> any1 tried lotus symphony beta4 on hardy?
[07:45] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> no one?
[07:47] <pwuertz> wow.. the latest update knocked out the sound drivers ^^
[07:48] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> pwuertz, go back to -11 kernel
[07:49] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> Bug #200338
[07:49] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> Bug 200338
[07:49] <ubotwo> Launchpad bug 200338 in linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.24 "no sound hardy kernel 2.6.24-12 " [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/200338
[07:53] <leo_rockw> gnite everyone
[08:14]  * oxigen installing new smp kernel ...24-12 rt, let's see if ubuntu magic work... reboot
[08:19] <oxigen> ok, im' alive! :)
[08:19] <RAOF> But without sound? :)
[08:20] <secretlondon> presumably
[08:20] <secretlondon> (although that is the question of the moment)
[08:20] <oxigen> with sound! and opengl!
[08:20] <zniavre> on last .rt kernel ?
[08:20] <secretlondon> omg!
[08:24] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> lol
[08:25] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> everybody is busy install the rt kernel?
[08:25] <zniavre> :o)
[08:26] <secretlondon> it wouldn't fix my gnome-session (I think) bug
[08:26]  * [Hardy]TuTUXG will wait for few more feedbacks ;P
[08:26]  * secretlondon is on her gutsy desktop
[08:27] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> oxigen, have u tried other kernels?
[08:27] <oxigen> i installed alpha 5 and now i'm on..
[08:29]  * oxigen doesn't fixing if it's not broken :)
[08:29] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> oxigen, so sounds didnt work with other -12 kernel?
[08:30] <oxigen> well i needed to install a few things first..
[08:30]  * oxigen is not total noob anyway
[08:30]  * [Hardy]TuTUXG is ..
[08:31] <oxigen> well, first check alsa site for your sound card info..
[08:31] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> lotus symphony b4 is wired
[08:31] <oxigen> and install drivers
[08:31] <secretlondon> yeah but it should work out of the box
[08:31] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> oxigen, im on -11 kernel and sound works
[08:31] <secretlondon> -12 is the broken one
[08:31] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> oxigen, just that ... yes
[08:32] <secretlondon> the kernel team will fix it soon, 24 hours max I'm sure
[08:32] <oxigen> secretlondon: i have m-audio card for that reason.. :)
[08:32] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> so i wondering if on the rt kernel sound works
[08:33] <oxigen> of course it works!
[08:33] <oxigen> even better if you have jack & co!
[08:33] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> Bug 200338
[08:33] <ubotwo> Launchpad bug 200338 in linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.24 "no sound hardy kernel 2.6.24-12 " [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/200338
[08:34] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> ok i will try the rt kernel then
[08:35] <oxigen> [Hardy]TuTUXG: yea, this bug is probably on some new exotic laptop with onboard exotic sound chip...
[08:35] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> oxigen, hm...
[08:36] <taggie> oxigen, i've got it on a 2 year old thinkpad
[08:36] <secretlondon> it affects everyone
[08:36] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> lotus is soooo slow
[08:37] <oxigen> taggie: dont use rt kernel if you dont have alsa tested sound card..
[08:38] <mwazny> can any1 help? I'm running Hardy Heron and ran the update manager and it totally hosed my system. I managed to get most of it back to normal but now it doesn't see my wireless adapter and it doesn't even show up in the Hardware Drivers program. I have a Broadcomm wireless driver.
[08:38] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> oxigen, can u give me some specific advantages of rt kernel?
[08:39] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> oxigen, i know i can read the wiki but just not really that clear about it
[08:40] <oxigen> [Hardy]TuTUXG: yes, if you use jack & ardour for audio recording... this will give you nice low latency results..
[08:40] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> oxigen, anything else?
[08:40] <oxigen> no
[08:40] <oxigen> well,..
[08:40] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> hm..
[08:41] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> k, i will try it and see
[08:41] <oxigen> dunno for other advantages..
[08:45] <mwazny> can any1 help with my Broadcomm wireless adapter that disappeared after the latest updates today?
[08:45] <macogw> is anyone else unable to press the backspace key inside a terminal?
[08:46] <macogw> if i hit backspace, it opens a new tab instead of backspacing
[08:46] <macogw> it's driving me insane
[08:46] <secretlondon> there will be another update soon as today's/yesterday's kernel update broke everyone's sound
[08:46] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> mwazny, try to boot with the previous kernel (-11)?
[08:46] <cordlesspayphone> is there any disadvantage to purging rdesktop?
[08:46] <mwazny> ya, when I do that it boots to a black screen
[08:46] <mwazny> lol
[08:47] <cordlesspayphone> if it's never used? any cons to upgrades or gnome performance?
[08:48] <mwazny> hmm o well, I'll try rebooting again, it's worked for stranger things before!
[08:50] <macogw> nvm i found out whats wrong
[08:50] <macogw> pressing a key while the menu is open apparently resets whatever's highlighted's keyboard shortcut to whatever you pressed
[08:50] <macogw> that's pretty annoying
[08:58] <oxigen> ah, & i can use blender & compiz together! that's  very cool too!
[09:03] <oxigen> jack DSP load is ~0.2% with jack as the only running audio device, with my previous audio cards that was sometimes 50% and even more :/
[09:04] <oxigen> well, and software too! :)
[09:05] <oxigen> dang, this is now already pro level! excellent guys, thank you!! :)
[09:08] <yao_ziyuan> kubuntu 8.04 alpha users: choose "Position: Scale & Crop" for your default wallpaper to get its aspect ratio right
[09:13] <h3sp4wn> Is kde4 mostly ok now ? (the fonts problem fixed at least)
[09:24] <oxigen> hmm, sensors show a bit high temp.. it's time for the manual dust sucking.. :)
[09:25] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> seems like sound does work with the rt kernel
[09:26] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> Linux FUNKY 2.6.24-12-rt #1 SMP PREEMPT RT Sat Mar 8 05:47:11 UTC 2008 i686 GNU/Linux
[09:32] <asdrubal> [Hardy]TuTUXG, how so?
[09:32] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> asdrubal, donno
[09:33] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> asdrubal, it just works
[09:34] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> is there a roadmap of how many kernel updates we gonna get from now to the final release?
[09:34] <user5> hi, dug alsamixer... some news about ?
[09:34] <mooboo1> help, my audio is broken
[09:34] <asdrubal> [Hardy]TuTUXG, do you have cx88 tv card?
[09:34] <mooboo1> i updated to kernel 2.6.24-12 and now it dont work :(
[09:35] <asdrubal> cx88_alsa kernel module doesn't load for me in 2.6.24
[09:35] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> asdrubal, no, im on a laptop ;P
[09:35] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> the new kernel breaks audio
[09:35] <asdrubal> yeah I know
[09:35] <asdrubal> they need to fix that
[09:35] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> it's a known bug and wait for a fix
[09:35] <asdrubal> maybe even revert back to the old alsa
[09:35] <user5> when it resolve?????
[09:35] <asdrubal> why did they update the core alsa anyway?
[09:36] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> user5, i really dont know
[09:36] <asdrubal> was something wrong with it
[09:36] <user5> lol
[09:36] <user5> I think you
[09:36] <asdrubal> Mainstream kernel doesn't even use it
[09:36] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> user5, im just a tester like u
[09:36] <user5> yes
[09:36] <user5> seing
[09:37] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> u can try the rt kernel
[09:37] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> it works for me
[09:37] <user5> yes in k -11 going well
[09:37]  * [Hardy]TuTUXG is wondering if he should encourage ppl to try the rt kernel
[09:38] <mooboo1> i cant listen my mp3 music :(
[09:38] <asdrubal> [Hardy]TuTUXG, I used to get alot of problems with my TV card and RT kernel
[09:38] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> oxigen, hi rt kernel does work great
[09:39] <mooboo1> rt kernel? what is good for?
[09:39] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> asdrubal, i c
[09:39] <user5> I hope soon it must resolve
[09:39] <oxigen> [Hardy]TuTUXG: :)
[09:39] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> mooboo1, it's the real time kernel
[09:39] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> mooboo1, that's all i know ;P
[09:39] <user5> bye bye peoples
[09:39] <user5> we will see soon
[09:40] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> just wait for a fix, it shouldnt take long
[09:40] <h3sp4wn> mooboo1: low latency multitracking
[09:40] <mooboo1> [Hardy]TuTUXG, i dont know where to get it, how to install or, or what its good for?
[09:40] <oxigen> mooboo1: mainly for audio, but probably is useful also for projects like is uni-verse, gled, etc..
[09:41] <mooboo1> oh
[09:41] <mooboo1> my audio playback skips when i scroll, its annoying
[09:41] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> mooboo1, it's in the universe repo if im not wrong
[09:41] <mooboo1> oh
[09:41] <KrimZon> when my wireless broke it was fixed again the same day
[09:41] <h3sp4wn> mooboo1: use amarok that won't happen
[09:41] <h3sp4wn> or use schedtool to increase the priority of your audio player
[09:42] <mooboo1> but amarok is KDE, and it seems dumb gui, they made the text vertical so you must tilt your head 90' to read it
[09:42] <h3sp4wn> Well all that matters to me is that it doesn't skip and sounds good
[09:42] <asdrubal> amarok is bloated as hell
[09:42] <mooboo1> i dont think people should have to use software like schedtool to change cpu priorieties just to listen to music without skips on a 2ghz dualcore machine with 4gb ram
[09:43] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> ...
[09:44] <h3sp4wn> mooboo1: well if you use well written software then you are ok
[09:44] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> mooboo1, does amarok do that?
[09:44] <h3sp4wn> asdrubal: probably but it has the audio in a different thread to the interface something no one else to my knowledge had the sense to do
[09:45] <h3sp4wn> (and the scheduler maintainer recommends it - and as you are now using his CFS then etc)
[09:45] <asdrubal> why would ingo molnar reccomend amarok
[09:46] <h3sp4wn> read the line above
[09:46] <mooboo1> i read that FreeBSD scheduler is better than CFS
[09:46] <mooboo1> and someone said that CFS is poor performance
[09:46] <asdrubal> probably isn't
[09:46] <h3sp4wn> The Solaris scheduler is the best
[09:46] <asdrubal> it's all subjective
[09:47] <h3sp4wn> (objectively)
[09:47] <asdrubal> uhm.. probably if you have 8 or more cpus
[09:47] <h3sp4wn> It scales to say 100 properly noone else seems to have this right yet
[09:48] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> is there a roadmap of how many kernel updates we gonna get from now to the final release?
[09:48] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> sorry for repeating myself
[09:48] <asdrubal> well that's pretty ridiculous... I'l start caring when I purchase an 8cpu core.. which probably won't happen for at least 10 years
[09:48] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> asdrubal, i do say 2 years
[09:49] <asdrubal> Naw... Why get 8 cpu... you will barely touch 4
[09:49] <h3sp4wn> (Amarok is an X apps that has a high-quality latency design - most other
[09:49] <h3sp4wn> X based players are affected by X communication latencies.)
[09:49] <h3sp4wn> quote from - http://www.ussg.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0707.2/3909.html
[09:49] <h3sp4wn> (But he has said it on a number of ocassions)
[09:49] <asdrubal> 4cpu is, I think, the best tradeoff....
[09:50] <mooboo1> well intel is planning an 8 core cpu, in some years probably games and apps will take better use of many core
[09:50] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> asdrubal, no offense, but don't be so sure
[09:50] <asdrubal> 8cpu is extremely difficult for a single app to make use of
[09:50] <asdrubal> unless it's an encoding app or something
[09:50] <asdrubal> like x264
[09:51] <mooboo1> well i guess the libraries should be better, so the app developer dont have to worry about that stuff
[09:51] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> how many apps take advantages from duel core anyway
[09:51] <asdrubal> mooboo1, doesn't matter... App developers still need to be worried about it... if the algorithm can't be paralellized then no library is going to help
[09:51] <mooboo1> well if none, they can still run on separate cores maybe
[09:52] <asdrubal> Dual core is about multitasking
[09:52] <asdrubal> so one process won't starve another as easily
[09:52] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> 8core virtualization would be awesome~
[09:52] <asdrubal> you can encode tv on one cpu and do whatever else on the other
[09:53] <mooboo1> ya in theory, but for me, i have dualcore and my audio skips in linux ! :(
[09:53] <mooboo1> how can it skip when i have dualcore?
[09:53] <asdrubal> mooboo1, you probably have a total crap sound card
[09:53] <h3sp4wn> won't save you from a crappy app
[09:54] <h3sp4wn> mooboo1: You could try OSS
[09:54] <asdrubal> 95% of people use a horrible motherboard sound chip and wonder why their sound is shitty...
[09:54] <asdrubal> get a real sound card.
[09:54] <asdrubal> my sblive! from 1997 is still better than 99% of motherboard sound
[09:55] <h3sp4wn> OSS makes those sound chips sound good that is the thing
[09:55] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> asdrubal, i use onboard sound card and my music doesnt skip
[09:55] <asdrubal> h3sp4wn, what?
[09:55] <asdrubal> Alsa is better than OSS
[09:55] <asdrubal> [Hardy]TuTUXG, good
[09:55] <h3sp4wn> asdrubal: In what universe
[09:55] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> and i dont use amarok
[09:55] <h3sp4wn> www.opensound.com
[09:55] <Ng> asdrubal: I do wish I could cram an emu10k1 into my laptop sometimes ;)
[09:55] <asdrubal> How does "Oss" make your "audio chip sound good"
[09:55] <anon000001> Why hasn't gutsy's openssl been updated? did no one read the security notice last year? http://www.openssl.org/news/secadv_20071012.txt
[09:56] <asdrubal> omg
[09:56] <asdrubal> h3sp4wn, stop trolling
[09:57] <h3sp4wn> asdrubal: Its more a question of alsa providing junk most of the time and 4front continually providing reliable high quality drivers
[09:57] <asdrubal> h3sp4wn, troll
[09:57] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> lol
[09:57] <h3sp4wn> with a sane api (so people don't have to add tons of abstraction)
[09:57] <StiveG> hi all.. is there any Hardy french channel or I should change my settings to have english error messages and discuss about bugs here?
[09:57] <h3sp4wn> asdrubal: case in question - ice1712 / ice1724
[09:57] <Ng> anon000001: if it has CVE you can guarantee that the security team have read it and dealt with it appropriately. http://www.ubuntulinux.org/usn/usn-534-1 (NB that's offtopic for this channel, yuo should be discussing hardy here)
[09:57] <mooboo1> asdrubal, my onboard audio works fine in windows without skips
[09:58] <h3sp4wn> alsa breaks it every other release
[09:58] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> StiveG, this is the only channel for hardy i believe
[09:58] <anon000001> Openssl: "We believe this flaw will permit remote code execution." "Versions Affected" "All releases of 0.9.8 prior to 0.9.8f." Gutsy is affected
[09:58] <StiveG> ok.. I will change my language setting then :)
[09:58] <h3sp4wn>  /ignore asdrubal
[09:58] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> ...
[09:58] <icesword> hello
[09:58] <icesword> i cannot change my resolution
[09:58] <oxigen> Lennart Poettering still use xmms afaik
[09:58] <anon000001> Ng, sorry, which channel to discuss this? tor users are banned from most ubuntu support chans
[09:58] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> anon000001, go to #ubuntu or #ubuntu-dev
[09:58] <h3sp4wn> sorry didn't mean that to be public
[09:58] <anon000001> [Hardy]TuTUXG, I can't, tor is blocked
[09:58] <Ng> anon000001: then don't use tor ;)
[09:59] <anon000001> Ng, not an option
[09:59] <icesword> i can only use 800X600
[09:59] <icesword> any ideas
[09:59] <h3sp4wn> Some people *have* to use tor
[09:59] <Ng> anon000001: then use a mailing list
[09:59] <anon000001> Ng, done, thank you
[09:59] <Ng> anon000001: or google, I found that USN in 5 seconds with the CVE number
[09:59] <icesword> when i tune it to 1024X768,refresh turn to 0
[09:59] <anon000001> Ng, link please?
[10:00] <icesword> hi
[10:00] <Ng> anon000001: www.google.com
[10:00] <icesword> i cannot change my resolution
[10:00] <anon000001> ..
[10:00] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> icesword, more info (vcard, driver...)
[10:00] <icesword> when i change my resolution,it said unknow
[10:00] <icesword> no G card
[10:01] <icesword> no graphic card
[10:01] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> u mean onboard gcard?
[10:01] <icesword> i use intel chip
[10:02] <Ng> oh well, I was going to tell anon000001 how obviously simple it was to find what he was looking for, but I guess he has to go and be anonymous somewhere else
[10:02] <icesword> [Hardy]TuTUXG, monitor resolution settings,beside it,it said unknow
[10:03] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> icesword, sorry, cant help
[10:03]  * [Hardy]TuTUXG is noooob
[10:03] <icesword> ahah
[10:03] <icesword> ohh
[10:03] <mooboo1> when will be an update to fix audio?
[10:03] <Ng> mooboo1: later
[10:03] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> mooboo1, it better be
[10:03] <mooboo1> Ng, when? i need listen mp3 music ;:(
[10:04] <icesword> audio is no problem,i can hear sound
[10:04] <Ng> mooboo1: 1) boot into the -11 kernel, 2) don't use hardy on important machines
[10:04] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> good
[10:04] <Ng> the kernel team is mostly in the US, and those timezones are mostly all asleep atm
[10:04] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> wake them up
[10:04] <mooboo1> they should get some kernel team in europe and africa too
[10:04] <mooboo1> and asia
[10:04] <Ng> you guys have this all wrong. there is no rush.
[10:04] <mooboo1> and some other continent if there is any
[10:04] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> wake them up
[10:05] <mooboo1> well my audio dont work, and i want it work
[10:05] <Ng> mooboo1: so reboot into the older kernel, or use gutsy
[10:05] <mooboo1> oh
[10:05] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> mooboo1, try rt kernel?
[10:05] <mooboo1> aff
[10:05] <h3sp4wn> mooboo1: build alsa-source
[10:05] <secretlondon> never use hardy for anything to rely on
[10:05] <mooboo1> well, im gonna go watch porno, i dont need audio for that, when i get back (2 mins approx), it better be fixed
[10:06] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> lol
[10:06] <h3sp4wn> or just get the deb from opensound.com
[10:06] <h3sp4wn> 2 mins ? seems a bit short
[10:06] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> gfu, mooboo1
[10:07] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> i like porno with sound tho
[10:07] <mooboo1> gfu?
[10:07] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> good for u
[10:07] <mooboo1> yeah, but i dont want anyone to hear i watch porno
[10:07] <mooboo1> so i always have the audio off
[10:07] <Ng> !ops
[10:07] <ubotwo> Help! Channel emergency! (ONLY use this trigger in emergencies) - Mez, LjL, elkbuntu, imbrandon, DBO, gnomefreak, Hobbsee, rob, ompaul, Madpilot, Seveas, CarlK, crimsun, ajmitch, tritium, Nalioth, thoreauputic, apokryphos, tonyyarusso, PriceChild, Amaranth, jrib, jenda, nixternal, Myrtti, mneptok, Pici, Jack_Sparrow or nickrud!
[10:07] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> ...
[10:07] <mooboo1> btw, the quality of my porno is crappy in ubuntu, because the video stream is pixelated and has bad colors
[10:08] <h3sp4wn> Just use mplayer I gues
[10:08] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> mooboo1, totem?
[10:08] <mooboo1> but when i use mplayer in firefox, i cant skip in the movie, cuz it only open the playback window not the controls
[10:08] <mooboo1> [Hardy]TuTUXG, yeah, totem and vlc gives bad quality
[10:09] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> mooboo1, switch the driver
[10:09] <icesword> i cannot change my resolution,i can only use 800X600.when i change to 1024X768,the refresh rate turn to 0 hz,so that is the thing,how to fix it,when i open monitor resolutions settings,it said unknown
[10:10] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> mooboo1, http://forum.compiz-fusion.org/showthread.php?t=1152&highlight=totem
[10:10] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> mooboo1, it's old but it helps
[10:10] <KrimZon> icesword, have you tried system->administration->hardware drivers?
[10:11] <icesword> yes,nothing in it
[10:11] <StiveG> Hi all, I have 2 bugs with the latest Hardy updates... First, I now have 2 ubuntu option in the grub load menu (kernel <IP_ADDRESS> and <IP_ADDRESS>). Second, my Intel sound card does not work anymore, I get "No volume control GStreamer plugins and/or devices found." when trying to access the volume control manager. I don't know if that can be related with the alsa drivers (I have a cx88 tv card...)
[10:11] <secretlondon> StiveG: sound is broken in the new kernel
[10:11] <StiveG> ok.. not alone then ;)
[10:11] <secretlondon> bug #200338
[10:11] <ubotwo> Launchpad bug 200338 in linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.24 "no sound hardy kernel 2.6.24-12 " [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/200338
[10:11] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> StiveG, choose 2.6.24 and it should work
[10:11] <StiveG> ok, thank you :)
[10:11] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> StiveG, choose <IP_ADDRESS> and it should work
[10:11] <secretlondon> 11 will give you sound
[10:12] <StiveG> and for the second boot entry?
[10:12] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> yes
[10:12] <h3sp4wn> or just build alsa-source with m-a
[10:12] <StiveG> ok, ty :)
[10:12] <secretlondon> you have 2 entries as you upgraded your kernel
[10:12] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> h3sp4wn, serious
[10:12] <h3sp4wn> that is logical - its possible its intentional and that they will provide alsa as part of ubuntu-modules
[10:12] <StiveG> ohhh I see... i'm new to this... everytimes I upgrade the kernel I get a new entry?
[10:12] <secretlondon> StiveG: yes
[10:12] <icesword> KrimZon, thank you,i got some other details for you,screen and graphics preferences say my screen model is plug and play
[10:12] <StiveG> I can remove them?
[10:12] <h3sp4wn> [Hardy]TuTUXG: Why wouldn't I be ?
[10:13] <secretlondon> StiveG yes, but I woudn't atm as -12 is a bit broken
[10:13] <StiveG> ok, ty :)
[10:13] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> h3sp4wn, okay
[10:13] <StiveG> so my bugs 1 is normal and my 2 is not a bug... ty ;)
[10:13] <secretlondon> yep :)
[10:13] <secretlondon> well 2 is a bug we know about :)
[10:13] <StiveG> yep ;)
[10:14] <StiveG> Is my cx88 card suppose to work with the latest alsa driver?
[10:14] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> my 1 and 2 are both normal
[10:14] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> no bugs
[10:14] <StiveG> tv-anywhere master
[10:14] <secretlondon> StiveG: try it with -11 and see ;0
[10:14] <icesword> KrimZon, hmm,thank you,i got it fixed,i changed the model
[10:14] <StiveG> ok ;)
[10:15] <StiveG> thnaks guys :)
[10:15] <secretlondon> np ;)
[10:15] <h3sp4wn> edit /etc/alsa/alsa-source.conf - put your card in and m-a a-i alsa
[10:15] <Daviey> secretlondon: I didn't think you used irc.
[10:16] <h3sp4wn> works fine (I only use oss on one box but its the only one with good speakers and +4dbu)
[10:16] <secretlondon> Daviey I'm doing so more now. My ISP blocked it for a while..
[10:16] <Daviey> yah
[10:19] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> my sound card is AD1984, anyone has the same card?
[10:20] <h3sp4wn> No that doesn't work - seems like a suitable time to switch the other to OSS as well
[10:22] <h3sp4wn> but the alsa modules are in linux-ubuntu-modules now looks like
[10:28] <icesword> hmm
[10:28] <icesword> 8.04 is good,i say it is stable
[10:29] <KrimZon> icesword: did you get it working?
[10:29] <icesword> yes
[10:29] <icesword> finaly
[10:29] <icesword> i changed screen model,and select the right one
[10:31] <oxigen> here is everything great so far, but mail server setup is almost always a pain in the...
[10:32] <oxigen> setup mail is still one of the most complicated things on the planet
[10:34] <oxigen> there is even hundreds of officially approved bugs, which must be there because of backward compatibility.. :/
[10:34] <icesword_> this is weird
[10:35] <oxigen> yeah, this was shock for me too!
[10:35] <oxigen> i wanted to setup mail relaying once for my friend... i mean, that was a nightmare!
[10:36] <oxigen> not only that wait for you thousands of spammers... to open your little doors.. & :/
[10:37] <oxigen> this is just a minor problem..
[10:37] <oxigen> :)
[10:45] <DanaG> What the heck?  I booted, and for some reason, my system is using snd-pcsp instead of snd-hda-intel.
[10:45] <secretlondon> DanaG sound is broken  in -12
[10:45] <DanaG> I'm using -11.
[10:48] <icesword> sound is broken?how come you said that,if you are refering to quality,then that is it
[10:48] <DanaG> -12 is missing a whole bunch of symbols that the ALSA modules use.
[10:53] <newbie> hey guys
[10:53] <icesword> newbie
[10:53] <icesword> hi
[10:54] <FreezeS> after the last updates my sound doesn't work at all
[10:54] <icesword> no sound?
[10:54] <FreezeS> not at all
[10:54] <icesword> ohhh,system>sys admin > sound
[10:55] <secretlondon> FreezeS sound is broken in -12
[10:55] <icesword> i am afraid you have to config it by hand,until sound comes out
[10:55] <bazhang> FreezeS: what kernel you have now?
[10:55] <FreezeS> 12 :(
[10:55] <FreezeS> so if I boot back to 11 it will work ?
[10:55] <bazhang> should do
[10:55] <FreezeS> and when will 13 be released ?
[10:55] <secretlondon> when they fix it ;0
[10:56] <secretlondon> it'll be soon, go back to -11 if you need sound
[10:56] <FreezeS> thanks
[10:58] <asdrubal> WHy is ubuntu messing with the sound so much?
[10:58] <asdrubal> Is it for that new per-app sound level adjustment
[10:58] <secretlondon> it's an alpha, it breaks
[10:58] <secretlondon> we have pulseaudio now of course
[10:58] <icesword> i use alpha 6 now, and it has sound
[10:58] <asdrubal> that sounds cool actually
[10:58] <asdrubal> I think 08.04 should be delayed if they want to get it right
[10:58] <asdrubal> 8.05
[10:58] <asdrubal> heh
[10:59] <asdrubal> secretlondon, do apps need to be compiled with pulse audio support?
[10:59] <asdrubal> secretlondon, for example... will xmms have pulse audio support?
[10:59] <secretlondon> asdrubal: no idea
[10:59] <asdrubal> ok
[11:02] <asdrubal> pulse audio sounds like it's going to really mess things up
[11:02] <secretlondon> I think it is just another layer
[11:03] <asdrubal> not exactly.. Check it: http://hg-mirror.alsa-project.org/alsa-plugins/file/14ac70da1259/doc/README-pulse
[11:03] <asdrubal> looks like ubuntu is going to have pulse audio as the default, using the alsa plugin
[11:03] <asdrubal> that's my guess.
[11:03] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> asdrubal, since fedora uses it, ubuntu has to use it as well
[11:03] <asdrubal> [Hardy]TuTUXG, that's a lame reason
[11:03] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> that's my guess
[11:03] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> sure
[11:04] <asdrubal> [Hardy]TuTUXG, instead of using pulse audio, why don't they work on alsa dmix
[11:04] <asdrubal> anyway....
[11:04] <asdrubal> I guess dmix is too simplistic
[11:05] <DanaG> PulseAudio can do some cool things with multiple devices and with networks.
[11:05] <asdrubal> none of this would even be a problem if sound cards didn't suck ass.
[11:05] <DanaG> However, when pulseaudio dies, bad stuff happens.  Namely, a media player app will start eating memory like crazy.
[11:05] <icesword> [Hardy]TuTUXG, my problem is fixed,i used the general one,don't know if it will damage hardware
[11:05] <asdrubal> network sound... that's like a theoretical use...
[11:06] <DanaG> What do you mean, "theoretical use"?
[11:06] <asdrubal> Not to many people are going to use it
[11:06] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> icesword, nothing from ubuntu can damage ur hardware
[11:06] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> icesword, afaik
[11:06] <icesword> hmmm
[11:07] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> asdrubal, i agree with u, i think they have more important and useful stuff to do than getting pulseaudio work
[11:08] <asdrubal> well it's their prerogative
[11:09] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> but that's the decision and everybody has to follow
[11:09] <asdrubal> you could switch to debian
[11:09] <asdrubal> heh
[11:09] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> i mean the devs
[11:10] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> the only distro i wanna try is gentoo now
[11:10] <asdrubal> I haven't been able to use a kernel since 2.6.24-4 because of cx88_alsa not working
[11:14] <piquadrat> Hi! I'm having a hard time getting the java plugin running in Firefox. I installed sun-java6-plugin, there's a symlink in /usr/lib/firefox/plugins which points to /etc/alternatives/firefox-javaplugin.so, which in turn points to /usr/lib/jvm/java-6-sun/jre/plugin/i386/ns7/libjavaplugin_oji.so. So all seems to be OK, but firefox fails to find the plugin
[11:15] <icesword> drag it to firefox
[11:16] <piquadrat> The plugin? When I drag and drop it into Firefox, it wants to download and save it
[11:18] <icesword> oh?then it is not java plugin for firefox
[11:21] <piquadrat> icesword: I'm pretty sure it's the right plugin. I'm not talking about extensions (which should be installed when dropped into the firefox window)
[11:21] <icesword> hmm
[11:21] <icesword> run your java configure file,i think there should be an option
[11:31] <Seeker`> does anyone else have problems with gnome-settings-daemon
[11:32] <virtuelv> is there any particular reason why SCIM is installed as default now?
[11:33] <henkjan> @#$ SCIM
[11:33] <henkjan> i hate
[11:33] <Seeker`> it keeps on crashing at startup, either while or after trying to load libxranr
[11:33] <Pici> Seeker`: I haven't had any issues with it.... yet.
[11:33] <henkjan> hitting ctrl-alt-space (very common used icm screen) gives me amharic :(
[11:34] <Seeker`> !paste
[11:34] <ubotwo> pastebin is a service to post multiple-lined texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic)
[11:34] <Pici> I kept hitting *something* yesterday that put me into Amaraic
[11:34] <Seeker`> Pici: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/59123/
[11:35] <Seeker`> Beofre I removed SCIM, i kept on hitting something that changed the input to egyptian
[11:35] <secretlondon> it's a known bug - it's too easy to trigger it now
[11:35]  * Dr_Willis imagines the text looking like Little Hygrlophics.
[11:35] <Dr_Willis> :)
[11:35] <virtuelv> henkjan: +1 -- I don't write ethiopian nearly often enough to justify having a keyboard shortcut
[11:36] <Pici> I didn't think that the Hyroglyphic unicode extensions were approved...
[11:37] <henkjan> rightclick on the icon, exit, and whoops its back
[11:39] <DanaG> That was odd... I randomly got an OOM kill of lots of stuff, even though nothing was using a particularly large amount of memory.
[11:41] <eifzon> anyone here tried new ubuntu 8.4?
[11:41] <Pici> 8.04, yes.
[11:41] <secretlondon> eifzon this is the channel for ubuntu 8.04
[11:41] <eifzon> is it working well:)
[11:41] <secretlondon> eifzon sound is currently broken
[11:42] <macogw> eifzon: it works well, not god
[11:42] <macogw> *not good
[11:42] <macogw> good isnt an adverb
[11:42] <Pici> well
[11:42] <macogw> since you asked with "good" in the other channel
[11:42] <macogw> and it's working well for me because i havent installed the kernel with the broken sound yet :P
[11:43] <vistakiller> hi i just upgrade to hardy
[11:43] <secretlondon> vistakiller: and your sound is broken?
[11:43] <vistakiller> i have kubuntu
[11:43] <vistakiller> yes :)
[11:43] <secretlondon> it's a known bug
[11:43] <vistakiller> i have and other problems
[11:43] <secretlondon> with the curretn -12 kernel
[11:44] <vistakiller> with the sound i use the 11 kernel
[11:44] <macogw> vistakiller: not the first thing i said when you joined the channel :P
[11:44] <vistakiller> it works there
[11:44] <vistakiller> take a look here pls
[11:44] <vistakiller> http://img512.imageshack.us/my.php?image=firestartercq8.png
[11:44] <vistakiller> why the gnome programmes look so ugly in hardy?
[11:44] <secretlondon> bah my isp blocks imageshack
[11:44] <vistakiller> where can i upload the pic?
[11:45] <DanaG> ISP blocks imageshack?  Why?
[11:45] <secretlondon> DanaG I don't know - to protect children
[11:45] <secretlondon> it blocks flickr too
[11:45]  * secretlondon curses Vodafone UK
[11:45] <DanaG> Call them and tell them you're not a child.
[11:45] <vistakiller> any idea why the gnome programmes looks so ugly in hardy?
[11:45] <vistakiller> in gutsy i dont have this problem
[11:45] <secretlondon> I need current photo ID, I've sent off for a new passport
[11:46] <Seeker`> vistakiller: what do you mean by ugly?
[11:46] <asdrubal> vistakiller, because they use the Miguel DeIcaza icons, which are known for ugliness
[11:46] <vistakiller> if you see the pic you will understanf
[11:46] <vistakiller> understand*
[11:46] <vistakiller> i use kubuntu from dapper
[11:46] <vistakiller> and i have never this problem
[11:47] <Pici> !enter | vistakiller
[11:47] <ubotwo> vistakiller: Please try to keep your questions/responses on one line - don't use the "Enter" key as punctuation!
[11:47] <vistakiller> ok
[11:47] <Seeker`> vistakiller: do you get any errors?
[11:47] <DanaG> dagblastit, tab-completion is broken.
[11:47] <vistakiller> no pls look the pic here http://img512.imageshack.us/my.php?image=firestartercq8.png
[11:48] <DanaG> Try cd'ing to various stuff in Program Files dir of a Windows partition .... you can't tab-complete.
[11:48] <Dr_Willis> Hmm.. i often have to single quote at the start of tab completion , when spaces are in the names/paths
[11:49] <Seeker`> DanaG: Works for me
[11:49] <vistakiller> and a pic here from synaptic http://img182.imageshack.us/my.php?image=synapticbj5.png
[11:50] <DanaG> vistakiller: sounds like you're using a theme that's not installed system-wide.
[11:50] <vistakiller> i think something have to do with gtk and kde
[11:50] <Seeker`> vistakiller: D oyu get an error when you log in related to gnome-settings-daemon
[11:50] <vistakiller> no
[11:51] <DanaG> Oh, kde4 makes gtk apps quite fugly.  I've seen that before.
[11:51] <vistakiller> i havent kde4
[11:52] <Pici> vistakiller: Do non sudo-ed applications look okay?
[11:52]  * secretlondon thanks Pici - no-one has had the privs to change it
[11:53] <Pici> secretlondon: Hopefully that'll stop some of the questions.. but we all know how many people actually read the topic
[11:53] <vistakiller> i think the problem is with gnome-gtk applications.In system setting i check the option use my kde style in gtk applications but nothing happens
[11:53] <Seeker`> Pici: approximately noone?
[11:53]  * secretlondon nods at Pici
[11:53] <FreezeS> I've upgraded from gutsy to hardy and now I can't unlock the user manager
[11:54] <DanaG> Do you have gtk-qt-engine installed?
[11:54] <DanaG> For gnome apps under kde.
[11:54] <vistakiller> Yes.I think is break the option to use kde style in gtk applications
[11:54] <vistakiller> i try to confirm it to do a bug report for that
[11:57] <vistakiller> the other problem i have is with fonts in system.I think this is the bug report for that https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/199557
[11:57] <ubotwo> Launchpad bug 199557 in language-selector "[hardy] fonts have had different proportions since update" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[11:57] <DanaG> language-selector?  That seems like an irrelevant package.
[11:58] <DanaG> I somehow like the new font rendering.
[11:59] <Pici> I haven't noticed a difference.
[11:59] <vistakiller> You cant work with fonts like that
[11:59] <DanaG> It's like I've gotten back the "legacy" subpixel hinting from Feisty.
[12:00] <vistakiller> have shadows and is very bad in the eyes.The gutsy,feisty,edgy fonts was very good but this...is not to work for many hours.
[12:00] <Keule> hi there - anyone german here?
[12:00] <Keule> i have a problem with my hardy - firefox3 - under gnome - i cant get a german language...
[12:01] <vistakiller> keule is general problem
[12:01] <DanaG> I liked Feisty, but disliked the change in Gutsy.
[12:01] <DanaG> Font change, that is.
[12:01] <Keule> vistakiller: really?
[12:01] <Keule> no chance to get it in german?
[12:01] <vistakiller> i have the same problem with green language it seem that they didnt upload the translation
[12:01] <vistakiller> greek*
[12:01] <Keule> my ff2 is although englisch....
[12:02] <Keule> i downloaded the de.xpi - but nothing happend
[12:02] <vistakiller> DanaG this the fonts tha we will use in hardy?
[12:02] <DanaG> Beats me.
[12:03] <DanaG> I just didn't like when they included the new "freetype lcd filter" that made everything look like ClearType.
[12:03] <vistakiller> i wish better not the fonts is worst and from windows xp :P
[12:04] <Keule> Another problem.. i get an error-message when i klick on "Places" file:// not found - or something like this
[12:06] <Keule> can someone tell me where i have to change the settings for Places?
[12:06] <Keule> in the panel - bytheway
[12:08] <vistakiller> finally the last problem was with nvidia driver.I have 8800gts and first i try to install the driver from the new kubuntu tool hardware manager.Nothing happens this tool dont work.Then i try to install it manual fronm pm but nothing happens the driver dont upload after restart. finally i install it with the old clasic system.Envy tool :P
[12:11] <BenderUnit22> Has something been said here about sound problems after the latest updates? :)
[12:11] <BenderUnit22> Scrolling up isn't feasible here.
[12:11] <Pici> BenderUnit22: /topic
[12:11] <secretlondon> BenderUnit22 yes we know it's broken
[12:12] <BenderUnit22> Oh. K. Thanks, both.
[12:12] <Pici> /alias sound /say Yes its broken
[12:12] <DanaG> Don't forget an apostrophe.
[12:14] <Dr_Willis> all sound is broken?
[12:14] <secretlondon> yes
[12:14] <Dr_Willis> glad i dident update recently. :)
[12:14] <coz_> oooo
[12:15] <ccooke> really? when did it break?
[12:15] <secretlondon> with -12
[12:15] <ccooke> ah, new kernel. Not got that, yet
[12:15] <secretlondon> kernel update
[12:15] <coz_> I guess it doesnt effect those of us who compiled a driver for their card then
[12:16] <DanaG> ACtually, it still does.
[12:17] <DanaG> Kernel symbols are missing, so even a manually compiled ALSA is broken.
[12:17] <coz_> DanaG, no my sound works here
[12:18] <coz_> the only sound that doesnt work is the system logon sound
[12:18] <coz_> DanaG, honest :)
[12:18] <DanaG> Under -12?
[12:19] <coz_> DanaG, well I have done all the updates  and everything is fine
[12:20] <vistakiller> i think the most serious problem in hardy is with the fonts
[12:20] <coz_> and the boxes around all the icon views :)
[12:21] <DanaG> Hmm, I manually set "legacy" hinting mode, and fonts look good to me.
[12:22] <vistakiller> DanaG i dont know why my fonts have this shadows
[12:22] <fenrig> hi
[12:23] <DanaG> Anyway, I'm going to bed now, for now.
[12:23] <fenrig> is there a sound breakage on ubuntu?
[12:23] <fenrig> hardy?
[12:23] <Pici> fenrig: /topic
[12:23] <secretlondon> DanaG night
[12:24] <fenrig> oh sorry i saw over it :D
[12:24] <coz_> fenrig, apparently  there is you cam in just after talking about it
[12:24] <fenrig> could you care to explain that again , because i don't understand :s sorry
[12:25] <secretlondon> fenrig: sound is broken in hardy with kernel -12
[12:26] <fenrig> could this be because the kernel was wrong compiled?
[12:26] <fenrig> or is it a kernel specific problem?
[12:27] <coz_> AH!   just checked uname -r ...apparenlty the updates didnt hit me yet  ...good thing ..  I would be really irritated :)
[12:27] <Keule> is it possible to edit the links in the panel? - i mean "places"
[12:27] <secretlondon> bug is listed as fix committed
[12:27] <hit> highlight highlight
[12:27] <hit> :P
[12:28] <coz_> Keule, you mean documents  photos etc
[12:28] <Keule> Computer and so
[12:28] <Keule> yess coz_
[12:29] <fenrig> is there going the be a beta soon?
[12:29] <coz_> Keule, well if you open the home directory  you should be able to right click the entries there and delet them or delete the folder however if you want to add another entry create a folder in the home directory  open that folder and hit   ctrl+d
[12:29] <hit`> fenrig,
[12:29] <hit`> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyReleaseSchedule
[12:30] <fenrig> hit: sorry i'm a fedora user actually, and i've switched to ubuntu
[12:30] <secretlondon> fenrig: we have released the last alpha, so the next release will be beta
[12:30] <hit`> no need to sorry :p
[12:30] <fenrig> i still have a question
[12:30] <fenrig> i don't know if i can ask her
[12:30] <fenrig> here
[12:31] <fenrig> but i'll try
[12:31] <fenrig> how can i configure nautilus to be like in fedora?
[12:31] <coz_> Keule, did you get that?
[12:31] <Keule> coz_:  no thats not what i wanted to do
[12:31] <fenrig> maybe with a command?
[12:31] <coz_> fenrig, what does it look like in fedora
[12:31] <Keule> i mean the Places thing in the panel
[12:31] <coz_> Keule, ok what is it you wanted to do?
[12:32] <Keule> when i click on places - desktop - than there is an error
[12:32] <Keule> the location is not found....
[12:32] <fenrig> its very small, almost everything is gone, file , locations, the browser bar, almost everything
[12:32] <coz_> oO
[12:32] <fenrig> except for the files and stuff
[12:32] <Dr_Willis> whats gone?
[12:33] <fenrig> its very small and it always opens a folder in a new window
[12:33] <Dr_Willis> fedora proberly added a lot of stuff to the  standard gonme.
[12:34] <fenrig> :s i think its a nautilus feature
[12:34] <pwuertz> after the latest upgrade.. my fonts are looking "fat"
[12:34] <coz_> fenrig, you may be able to regain them under the Edit menu let me check
[12:34] <pwuertz> anyone else too?
[12:34] <Dr_Willis> The open folder in new window - is a nautilus feature. the 'spatial' thing I recall..
[12:34] <coz_> fenrig, under the View menu there is a or should be a reset to defaults try that
[12:35] <Keule> so coz_ - do you have an idea?
[12:35] <Dr_Willis> Everyone hated it when ubuntu defaulted that way ages ago.. so they switched it back :)
[12:36] <coz_> Keule, not sure...  that seems like a pretty serious error...have you restarted x just to see if it returns to normal.?
[12:36] <fenrig> coz_: no sorry it doesn't work
[12:36] <Keule> 1000 times
[12:37] <fenrig> http://www.gnome.org/projects/nautilus/images/screenshot1.png
[12:37] <fenrig> thats an example but i can't find it
[12:38] <Dr_Willis> fenrig,  yes thats the gnome 'spatial' mode  method. looks like...
[12:38] <Dr_Willis> theres some setting in the gconf2 tool that enables that by default
[12:39] <Dr_Willis> http://www.linuxtopia.org/online_books/linux_desktop_guides/gnome_2.14_user_guide/nautilus-spatial-mode.html
[12:40] <fenrig> how do i enable this?
[12:41] <fenrig> the man command doesn't give me anything intresting
[12:41] <fenrig> so now i'm looking into the help files
[12:41] <fenrig> but i can't find anything about it
[12:41] <fenrig> i mean howto enable it offcourse
[12:42] <Dr_Willis> https://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/desktop-tips.html
[12:42] <Dr_Willis> google to the rescue
[12:42] <fenrig> yeah i found it
[12:42] <Dr_Willis> Most people HATE it. :)
[12:42] <Keule> coz_ or anybody... do you have an idea?
[12:43] <coz_> Keule, no  I dont  have you already restarted X
[12:43] <Keule> yes
[12:43] <Keule> 1000 times
[12:44] <coz_> Keule, sorry   no I dont have a solution for that    but am looking around
[12:44] <Keule> thanx
[12:44] <fenrig> whats the best innovating distro?
[12:45] <fenrig> fedora or ubuntu
[12:45] <fenrig> ?
[12:45] <rsk> fenrig: what do you specify innovation by
[12:45] <coz_> fenrig,  in my opinion  ubuntu with those two choices
[12:45] <coz_> fenrig,   if you want something more chalenging you may want to look into gentoo
[12:46] <fenrig> no i thing gentoo is far too strange for me
[12:46] <fenrig> think
[12:47] <coz_> fenrig, ubuntu is a real decent distribution... always moving ahead    simple to use  etc etc
[12:47] <fenrig> you know i still have my doubts with those two
[12:47] <fenrig> they seem both are great and fun to use
[12:48] <amx109> hi. using hardy alpha 6, it seems to mount vfat/ntfs partitions incorrectly, despite me explicitly specifying them in /etc/fstab. a manual sudo umount<dir> && sudo mount <dir> fixes it. am i doing something wrong ref fstab or is there a diff way to handle those fs's now eg with fuse?
[12:48] <coz_> Keule, I am not finding anything on that issue    did this just start happening and was it after an update?
[12:49] <Dr_Willis> ntfs-3g is normally used for ntfs, not sure  if theres been any changes with using vfat
[12:49] <Keule> i installed kubuntu - and updated later gnome
[12:50] <coz_> Keule, oh!! mm
[12:51] <Keule> does anybody know vistakiller? i have a solution for his greek problem
[12:51] <coz_> Keule,  that one I couldnt help you with . you may want to go to #gnome   and ask there
[12:51] <Keule> ok thanx!
[12:51] <coz_> Keule, I meant about the places menu problem not the vistakiller thing whatever that is :)
[12:52] <Keule> yeah right
[12:52] <coz_> guys I have noticed  a black lined box around the icon views undr /usr/share/icons   this is a real bad visual decision they all look like little splash screens  and it is difficutlt to determine if they have a backghround,  is it transparent etc etc
[12:54] <fenrig> coz_: i think it's better that way
[12:54] <fenrig> coz_: now i know whats a image what's not
[12:54] <coz_> fenrig,  ooo
[12:54] <coz_> :)
[12:55] <flipstar> can anyone confirm that bug #129910 is fixed ?
[12:55] <ubotwo> Launchpad bug 129910 in xserver-xorg-video-ati "Blank ttys when using vesafb (vga=xxx)" [Unknown,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/129910
[12:56] <fenrig> its fixed in debian and i guess ubuntu just imports it
[12:57] <fenrig> i think its fixed
[12:57] <fenrig> its a nvidia thing also right?
[12:58] <flipstar> also on ati reported and intel
[12:59] <flipstar> last time i tried it restarted my xserver..guess i will try a daily build..
[13:00] <fenrig> or just buy another monitor with a bigger resoluiton?
[13:00] <flipstar> :D its big enough 19" 1600x1200 ..
[13:03] <flipstar> btw is there a way to run a second xserver not as root ?
[13:06] <fenrig> transmission is so beautifull on ubuntu
[13:07] <fenrig> question does transmission has the features ktorrent has?
[13:08] <Keule> does anybody have language problems with firefox?
[13:08] <coz_> Keule, I have issues with firefox 3 but so far not language
[13:48] <mazzen> hi dudes! i know, this is not a very close to hardy related question, but it would be nice if someone could answer to it: i know that there is a daemon, which notices when a new file is created, or the name of a file is renamed. but i have forgotten the name of this service. any hint?
[13:48] <secretlondon> trackerd?
[13:49] <mazzen> no, thanks secretlondon, this service indicates the files
[13:50] <mazzen> and this server must get this information from the same daemon i would like to have
[13:50] <mazzen> but....hm... i'll take a look at the source
[13:50] <mazzen> thanks for the hint :)
[13:50] <lunaphyte_> hi
[13:52] <flipstar> mazzen: iwatch
[13:52] <lunaphyte_> i was just looking at the release schedule for hardy - does a green box mean that particular task is complete?
[13:53] <loa> where i can see it?
[13:53] <lunaphyte_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyReleaseSchedule
[13:53] <Pici> lunaphyte_: I think it just gets redder as we get closer to release
[13:54] <mazzen> flipstar: hey, thanks dude! i had something different in mind and would never get on iwatch
[13:54] <lunaphyte_> Pici: oh really?  i thought it would be the opposite.
[13:56] <henkjan> aargh @#$scim
[14:00] <mohbana> deos anyone know which version freetype ubuntu gusty uses?
[14:05] <l815> firefox 3 constantly crashes with flash, are there ways to fix this?
[14:07] <oxigen> probably you are not the only one who noticed this...
[14:07] <oxigen> ask #adobe :)
[14:10] <user5> helloooo
[14:10]  * J-_laptop wonders what happened to Hardy
[14:10] <user5> some good news of k -12 ?
[14:11] <J-_laptop> can't listen to tunes while I clean
[14:11] <J-_laptop> =(
[14:11] <slackern> ahh nice already new kernel on the way for sound issue :)
[14:11] <user5> also firefox 3 crashing
[14:11] <J-_laptop> hopefully it's fixed soooon. =)
[14:12] <user5> I hope
[14:12] <slackern> This bug was fixed in the package linux - 2.6.24-12.20 -   Launchpad Janitor  wrote 7 minutes ago:  (permalink)
[14:12] <slackern> guess it's just propagating out to all the mirrors
[14:12] <slackern> I just went back to -11 instead and it works fine
[14:13] <user5> yes k -11 it's cool
[14:14] <user5> also firefox in -12 not work good
[14:14] <user5> many pages crashing
[14:14] <orvokki> !info firefox
[14:14] <ubotwo> firefox: lightweight web browser based on Mozilla. In component main, is optional. Version <IP_ADDRESS>+2nobinonly-0ubuntu1 (gutsy), package size 8960 kB, installed size 26008 kB (Only available for None)
[14:14] <orvokki> Thank God.
[14:15] <orvokki> Erm, only gutsy?
[14:15]  * orvokki goes check via packages site
[14:15] <flipstar> im using 3.0b4 binary packages from mozilla..
[14:16] <secretlondon> sound bug is fixed in hardy 2.6.24-12.20
[14:16] <Oli```> Was there another milestone today/last night? I'm noticing a lot of updates today...
[14:16] <l815> do i need to have pre-released updates enabled to get these fixes?
[14:17] <orvokki> Right. So package firefox is still Firefox 3.0 but firefox-2 include Firefox <IP_ADDRESS>. Nice.
[14:17] <mohbana> deos anyone know which version freetype ubuntu gusty uses?
[14:19] <slackern> mohbana: http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=freetype&searchon=names&suite=gutsy&section=all
[14:24]  * J-_laptop cleans without the streamz.
[14:36] <UB`> Hi
[14:36] <UB`> could you try please to run: gnome-appearance-properties
[14:36] <UB`> I get a segmentation fault with Hardy
[14:37] <UB`> I opened a bug and I would like to know if there are someone else with same bug
[14:38] <rsk> sure
[14:38] <rsk> works for me UB`
[14:38] <UB`> mmm
[14:39] <UB`> strange
[14:39] <UB`> may be I have something installed which conflict with it
[14:40] <UB`> This is the bug I opened if someone occours in the same problem feel free to add comments (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-control-center/+bug/200106). Thank you
[14:41] <ubotwo> UB`: Error: This bug is private
[14:42] <stdin> UB`: did you mark that as a security bug?
[14:42] <UB`> uh no
[14:42] <UB`> why?
[14:42] <stdin> because it's a private bug, that normally means a security bug
[14:42] <UB`> mmm
[14:43] <stdin> ie: no normal users can view it
[14:43] <UB`> you are right it was marked as private
[14:43] <UB`> but I dont know why
[14:43] <Pici> Or someone marked it as private because it contained private data
[14:43] <UB`> now it should be right
[14:44] <UB`> Pici may be I had to check it
[14:46] <UB`> I don't see any sensible data
[14:51] <mohbana> any idea on how to reduce the icon sizes on the desktop?