[00:15]  * redir eod
[00:15] <redir> thanks for the clue axw
[01:40] <menn0> thumper: http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/5404/ pls
[01:49] <thumper> menn0: done
[01:49] <menn0> thumper: thanks
[01:52] <menn0> thumper: dropped your issue (with an explanation)
[01:52] <thumper> ok
[02:13] <natefinch> axw: I couldn't tell, did you and William come up with a magic way to make (un)marshaling work nicely with jsonschema and our extra properties?  Seems like the least amount of work would be to define schemas in yaml strings and marshal into Schema, with helpers to get metadata out of the "extras".  Not elegant, but a lot less work than making our own custom jsonschema struct.
[02:17] <axw> natefinch: we did not
[02:18] <natefinch> axw: any preference?
[02:20] <axw> natefinch: I'd prefer if it wasn't just a blob of text, but I'm unsure of how it'd look in the end. I guess you would have to duplicate the entire Schema type
[02:20] <axw> and SchemaList etc.
[02:20] <natefinch> I think forking that schema package and adding our properties would also be easy enough... just sort of a maintenance burden to keep up with upstream (which looking at gojsconschema, we usually just don't do).
[02:20] <axw> natefinch: I'd prefer if we didn't fork
[02:20] <axw> for that reason
[02:22] <natefinch> it sucks that there's no nice way to make recursive data structures easily extensible
[02:24] <natefinch> axw: so... you're saying we're boned :)
[02:25] <axw> natefinch: I don't think so? I think we can duplicate the *types* from the jsonschema package, and then introduce functions to extract/inject the from/into the Extras field
[02:26] <axw> natefinch: we would still rely on the jsonschema package for all of the standard parsing and validation
[02:28] <natefinch> axw: interesting, ok.
[02:34] <natefinch> axw: the tricky thing is that unmarshaling into the Schema type is all hand coded in that go-jsschema package, I think mostly because the rules for jsonschema are really wacky (values that can be a boolean or a list of strings, for example).  Some of it may be overengineered... but I'm guessing we might want to copy a lot of the logic in how to unmarshal... which might make it better to just fork the package outright.
[02:34] <natefinch> Note that the validation is actually in a subpackage, the main package is just the types and unmarshalling.
[02:40] <axw> natefinch: I'll have a poke and see if I can come up with something that looks workable
[03:19] <axw> natefinch: https://gist.github.com/axw/0d395b86aa5ac9ee0c4f18a3ca81cb68
[03:19] <axw> natefinch: you would need to have a "toInternal" to do the opposite, putting the juju bits back into the Extras map
[03:20] <menn0> axw or thumper: fairly easy one: http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/5405/
[03:20] <axw> natefinch: I dropped all of the json tags from the cloned struct. instead of having tags, you'd have a MarshalJSON and UnmarshalJSON that use from/toInternal
[03:20] <axw> menn0: looking
[03:21] <natefinch> axw: right
[03:21] <natefinch> axw: it's funny, the jsschema thing has custom json (un)marshaling too, so the json tags aren't really used.
[03:22] <natefinch> axw: that looks pretty good. Reusing as much as possible from the internal type, just replacing the recursive part.  Very nice.
[03:25] <axw> menn0: LGTM
[04:33] <menn0> axw: (delayed) tyvm
[04:33] <axw> np
[05:04]  * thumper waits for the featuretest package to run tests...
[05:04] <thumper> should have used -check.v
[05:04] <thumper> hmm...
[05:04] <thumper> how long to wait...
[05:05] <thumper> killed it
[05:05] <thumper> PASS: dblog_test.go:149: debugLogDbSuite.TestLogsAPI	0.005s
[05:05] <thumper> OK: 1 passed
[05:05] <thumper> PASS
[05:05] <thumper> ok  	github.com/juju/juju/featuretests	7.662s
[05:05] <thumper> 5ms to run the test, the rest of 7.6 seconds for setup / teardown
[05:06] <thumper> w00t
[05:46] <jam> menn0: are you still around?
[05:55] <menn0> jam: yes, for a few more minutes
[07:54] <jam> menn0: sorry I ended up missing you, I'll see you at the tech board if you can make it
[08:00] <rogpeppe> balloons: the best way is to migrate all the leaf repositories first, then juju-core itself
[08:22] <babbageclunk> menn0: ping?
[08:27] <menn0> babbageclunk: hi, in tech board call atm
[08:27] <babbageclunk> menn0: ok
[09:13] <menn0> babbageclunk: done!
[09:14] <menn0> babbageclunk: I imagine you're bugging me about the email you sent which I didn't reply to?
[09:14] <babbageclunk> menn0: Hi! Yes!
[09:14] <menn0> babbageclunk: sorry... I was trying to staying focussed on migrations so email took a back seat today
[09:15] <menn0> babbageclunk: I'll reply now but the short answer is that you don't need to worry about migrations for what you're working on
[09:15] <menn0> babbageclunk: a migration will abort early if there's any dying/dead machines or units
[09:16] <babbageclunk> menn0: Ok - so I can ditch that commit then?
[09:17] <babbageclunk> menn0: No need to reply right now if that's the takeaway.
[09:17] <menn0> babbageclunk: yep, you can ditch that... there will be a higher level check for dying machines
[09:18] <babbageclunk> menn0: Sweet, thanks!
[09:18] <menn0> babbageclunk: should be working on prechecks this week
[09:51] <fwereade> menn0, if you're still around... the nsWhatever thing
[09:51] <babbageclunk> fwereade: I can't see any way of testing apiHandler.ConnectedModel without either adding the test to a suite based on JujuConnSuite (so I can call TestingApiHandler) or adding another TestingApiHandler* func to apiserver/export_test (so I can specify a UUID directly).
[09:52] <fwereade> menn0, I feel like I want *some* way to visibly distinguish these (basically) static/stateless types
[09:52] <fwereade> babbageclunk, hmm
[09:52] <babbageclunk> fwereade: I'm aware that both are eyebrow-provoking.
[09:52] <fwereade> babbageclunk, let me look
[09:52] <fwereade> babbageclunk, wouldn't surprise me if the use-existing-JujuConnSuite were the pragmatic approach
[09:53] <babbageclunk> fwereade: ok, I'll put my test in one of those for now.
[09:55] <fwereade> perrito666, ping re Authorizer.HasPermission
[10:00] <fwereade> perrito666, ehh, don't worry about it
[10:01]  * fwereade needs someone to talk to about structuring/naming some things in state, is off for a ciggie, would be delighted if someone were willing to chat in a few minutes
[10:01] <perrito666> fwereade: i am just waking up, if you want I can ping you in a moment?
[10:13] <fwereade> perrito666, ofc
[10:19] <fwereade> jam, dimitern, babbageclunk: I am going to waffle vaguely about the ns* types I've been adding to state, please jump in if anything springs to mind
[10:19] <fwereade> so
[10:19] <dimitern> fwereade: sure ;)
[10:19] <fwereade> in the payloads work, we made a stab at separating persistence from business logic
[10:20] <fwereade> and it wasn't entirely successful, but when I moved the necessary payloads bits into state, I tried to preserve the distinction
[10:21] <fwereade> and I ended up with an exported Payloads type that clients use, and an unexported `type nsPayloads_ struct{}` to hold all the internal methods that actually implement the persistence side
[10:22] <fwereade> (and an unexported `var nsPayloads nsPayloads_` to actually call methods on)
[10:24] <fwereade> and it's nice that it's entirely stateless, and it has methods like `untrackOp(coll mongo.Collection, docID string) (txn.Op, error)`
[10:24] <fwereade> so I'm pretty happy with the *structure*
[10:24] <fwereade> but the "nsFoo" naming style has raised many eyebrows
[10:25] <fwereade> so the *easy* thing to do is just to drop the ns stuff
[10:25] <fwereade> and just have refcounts.CreateOrIncRefOp, and life.notDeadOp, and so on
[10:26] <fwereade> but
[10:26] <fwereade> the style, while I think it is good, is somewhat at odds with the stateful-model-type approach we're currently using almost everywhere
[10:27] <fwereade> and I can't help but feel it needs *something* to clearly and visibly distinguish it from... all the other code
[10:27] <fwereade> am I overthinking this? from a certain perspective the prefix tells you very little, whatever it might be
[10:27] <dimitern> fwereade: so you separate the external interface of Payloads from the low-level ops, which go in the ns* internal type?
[10:27] <fwereade> dimitern, yeah
[10:29] <dimitern> fwereade: ns for namespace.. I could say it's not quite obvious at first
[10:29] <dimitern> fwereade: I mean namespaces vs entities
[10:29] <fwereade> dimitern, (and in payloads, because it uses that mechanism exclusively, I can implement the Payloads thing largely in terms of distinct Change types which themselves use the ns type)
[10:29] <dimitern> fwereade: things we store
[10:29] <fwereade> dimitern, yeah, indeed
[10:29] <fwereade> dimitern, it is evidently not obvious
[10:30] <dimitern> fwereade: how about persistence ? too long I guess..
[10:30]  * xnox is failing to bootstrap localhost provider with 2.0 beta14 on xenial =(
[10:30] <fwereade> dimitern, yeah, I guess that's the obvious one, but I rue all the characters it costs every time you want to use it
[10:31] <dimitern> fwereade: backing is shorter, and already used here and there
[10:31] <dimitern> it's not perfect though..
[10:32] <dimitern> xnox: about lxdbr0?
[10:32] <fwereade> dimitern, the other solution is to pull them out into their own packages, which is clearly what they *want* to be, but I don't think I can do it non-invasively
[10:32] <fwereade> dimitern, state/persistence/life etc
[10:32] <xnox> dimitern, tools info mismatch
[10:33] <fwereade> dimitern, you know, the more I talk, the less I care about having any prefix at all
[10:33] <dimitern> xnox: oh..
[10:33] <fwereade> dimitern, if they ever make it into packages it'll just be `life.notDeadOp(...)` anyway
[10:33] <dimitern> fwereade: having the prefix is fine I think
[10:34] <fwereade> dimitern, that's seemed to be the major sticking point for people though
[10:34] <dimitern> fwereade: the underscore suffix is making me wince a little
[10:34] <xnox> does 2.0 need agent-stream: devel ?
[10:35] <xnox> ERROR failed to bootstrap model: cannot start bootstrap instance: tools info mismatch ({2.0-alpha1-xenial-amd64  b67c1484745bd58e7fac6ad672a7f6e45042ebef7a1e0e995f3f0f3c2baa7d33 18556414}, {2.0-alpha2-xenial-amd64  ceb165a45206eddadc06a7c986b44a3f76195c71a317d0c87810727c71bcc0f8 18073871})
[10:36] <xnox> $ juju bootstrap --config agent-stream=devel localhost localhost
[10:36] <xnox> seems to work better,
[10:36] <xnox> however specifying --config cancels "interactive" mode of juju bootstrap
[10:36] <dimitern> xnox: nice! I usually always bootstrap from src with --upload-tools
[10:37] <dimitern> xnox: yeah any args do that
[10:40] <dimitern> fwereade: if not ns how about stored? e.g. storedPayloads
[10:40] <dimitern> fwereade: saved ?
[10:42] <dimitern> fwereade: dbPayloads even :D
[10:43] <fwereade> dimitern, yeah, if you can see a way around the suffix that'd be nice, but you only see that when you're implementing it
[10:43] <fwereade> dimitern, hmm
[10:43] <fwereade> dimitern, dbPayloads
[10:43] <fwereade> dimitern, I think maybe I like that
[10:43] <dimitern> db is short and more obvious yeah
[10:43] <fwereade> dimitern, awesome, tyvm
[10:44] <dimitern> :) np
[10:44] <fwereade> jam, babbageclunk: any thoughts? ^^ or anyone else? :)
[10:47]  * dimitern as usual has a lot of things needing attention.. sinks back to bugs
[11:04] <perrito666> ok, this is completely new to me: alarm notification buffer full
[11:10] <babbageclunk> fwereade: Sorry, was following but didn't have much to add. I definitely like db better than ns. I don't think the suffix is a problem, since you only have to look at it in the implementation.
[11:11] <fwereade> babbageclunk, cheers :)
[11:12] <babbageclunk> fwereade: Also, ns is used a lot in iOS objective-C development (from NextStep), so it's weird seeing it in Go code. :)
[11:12] <babbageclunk> Oops NeXTSTEP apparently.
[11:13] <fwereade> babbageclunk, a sense of happy familiarity with the NS prefix did sort of come into it, even if it's ultimately unhelpful
[11:16] <dimitern> fwereade: m_lpszDataSource evokes that sort of familiarity for me, but with the opposite sign :)
[11:17] <fwereade> dimitern, hahaha
[11:17] <babbageclunk> dimitern: lol
[11:17] <fwereade> dimitern, I wish they'd done hungarian notation right
[11:17] <dimitern> oh MFC days...
[11:17] <dimitern> :)
[11:25] <perrito666> does anyone know if the clock interface recently changed?
[11:26] <dimitern> perrito666: rogpeppe was talking about changing something there recently IIRC
[11:26] <rogpeppe> dimitern, perrito666: i haven't actually changed anything recently AFAIR
[11:27] <rogpeppe> dimitern, perrito666: though I have an unfinished PR that revamps the testing clock stuff and the interface
[11:27] <dimitern> rogpeppe: ah ok - wasn't the discussing around alarms though? timers?
[11:27] <rogpeppe> dimitern, perrito666: i just need to find time to write some tests for it
[11:27] <rogpeppe> dimitern: i wanted NewTimer
[11:27] <dimitern> rogpeppe: that's it
[11:28] <rogpeppe> dimitern, perrito666: FWIW this is the PR in question: https://github.com/juju/testing/pull/108/files
[11:29] <perrito666> rogpeppe: I am getting a strange panic in tests (pastebining now)
[11:30] <perrito666> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/22902510/
[11:30] <perrito666> Ill now go see how in the universe I triggered that without even going near it
[11:31] <rogpeppe> perrito666: you can fix that by reading from the clock.Alarms channel
[11:32] <perrito666> rogpeppe: I am curious on how I originally broke that (more than the actual fix) :)
[11:32] <rogpeppe> perrito666: tbh i think that that clock code shouldn't panic in that case
[11:33] <perrito666> I mean, I know what I changed, I agree with you that this thing should definitely not panic
[11:35] <dimitern> perrito666: I suspect you're using juju/testing/clock whereas before you used juju/juju/testing/clock
[11:35] <perrito666> dimitern: I suspect someone made that change and I made a change and we both clashed :p
[11:35] <rogpeppe> dimitern, perrito666: please, please can we change everything to use juju/testing/clock and remove juju/juju/testing/clock ?
[11:36] <perrito666> rogpeppe: sure you can, ill review the PR :p
[11:36] <rogpeppe> dimitern, perrito666: there's no need for both to exist
[11:36] <dimitern> rogpeppe: I don't mind that :)
[11:36] <rogpeppe> perrito666: most of what i do these days seems to be juju-core code cleanups
[11:37] <perrito666> rogpeppe: and we love you for it
[11:37] <dimitern> rogpeppe: indeed <3 :)
[11:38] <rogpeppe> perrito666: speaking of which... did you see this? https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1611379
[11:38] <mup> Bug #1611379: api/backups: restore code needs improvement <juju-core:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1611379>
[11:38] <perrito666> "needs improvement" is perhaps the bigest understatement in history of mankind
[11:38] <dimitern> lol
[11:39] <rogpeppe> perrito666: well, i thought i might be out of order to say "this code is fucking shit" :)
[11:39] <rogpeppe> perrito666: in a bug report
[11:39] <rogpeppe> perrito666: anyway, i rewrote it, but didn't have time to write the tests (the current code has no tests)
[12:43] <rick_h_> macgreagoir: can you review https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/5747 please, I did the QA to make sure it worked when you get a sec
[13:01] <macgreagoir> rick_h_: ack
[13:02] <macgreagoir> dimitern: Ready for HO when you are.
[13:02] <dimitern> macgreagoir: ok, let's use the standup HO I guess?
[13:09] <voidspace> babbageclunk: ping
[13:15] <babbageclunk> voidspace: pong, sorry!
[13:19] <niedbalski> dimitern, https://pastebin.canonical.com/162703/ latest run
[13:19] <niedbalski> dimitern, after this the boot gets stuck.
[13:31] <mup> Bug #1611764 opened: upgraderSuite.SetUpTest An existing connection was forcibly closed <ci> <intermittent-failure> <regression> <unit-tests> <windows> <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1611764>
[13:31] <mup> Bug #1611766 opened: upgradeSuite.TearDownTest sockets in a dirty state <ci> <intermittent-failure> <regression> <unit-tests> <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1611766>
[13:32] <rick_h_> voidspace: time to sync?
[13:33] <voidspace> rick_h_: yep
[13:34] <balloons> rogpeppe, so I worked with Nate and perrito666 yesterday to get everything settled to do the changeover to the git version of gnuflag, but I've hit a snag. juju/romulus and juju/juju both reference each other. It's a circular dependency.
[13:34]  * fwereade has a problem; is anyone up to date with the details of charm migrations?
[13:34] <fwereade> babbageclunk, voidspace perhaps? ^^
[13:34] <rogpeppe> balloons: that is annoying
[13:34] <rogpeppe> balloons: but
[13:34] <rogpeppe> balloons: there's a way around it
[13:35] <balloons> I guess my thought is does juju/romulus really need to depend on juju/juju? And if so, we have to land without attempting to build for the first commit of one of them -- unless you know something cooler we can do
[13:35] <rogpeppe> balloons: make a feature branch of either juju-core or romulus that uses only the github gnuflag
[13:36] <rogpeppe> balloons: unfortunately it does
[13:36] <rogpeppe> balloons: it's ok (temporarily) for a project to depend on a commit in a feature branch
[13:37] <rogpeppe> balloons: once you've landed romulus depending on the juju feature branch, you can make juju depend on that just-landed romulus branch
[13:38] <rogpeppe> balloons: then you can update romulus to depend on juju master again and delete the juju feature branch
[13:38] <rogpeppe> balloons: or you can do it the other way, making a feature branch in romulus
[13:39] <balloons> this sounds educational
[13:39] <balloons> I think a feature branch in romulus would be preferred perhaps -- avoid invoking a CI run for instance
[13:42] <rogpeppe> balloons: good point
[13:45] <babbageclunk> fwereade: sorry, not me - voidspace has been doing a fair bit on migrations though.
[13:45] <voidspace> fwereade: babbageclunk: not charm migrations, no
[13:47] <fwereade> babbageclunk, voidspace: not to worry
[13:50] <fwereade> babbageclunk, voidspace: (fun fact: the data model *never* actually checked that a given charm existed before creating an application that used it)
[13:51] <voidspace> nice
[13:51] <fwereade> babbageclunk, voidspace: (which is somewhat cramping my style re refcounting charms, there are a number of state tests that add apps without charms... and *all* migrated apps are added without charms, which are then filled in later)
[13:54] <natefinch> sinzui, mgz: the CI scripts ask for an environment... how do I pass a cloud and credentials?
[13:55] <natefinch> (running deploy_job.py)
[13:58] <babbageclunk> fwereade: doh
[14:01] <rick_h_> voidspace: natefinch dimitern standup ping
[14:01] <dimitern> omw
[14:10] <mup> Bug # changed: 1502130, 1523608, 1556961, 1586197
[14:15] <sinzui> natefinch: the ci script only take an env. uses the clouds.yaml and credentials.yaml in cloud-city ($JUJU_HOME). the env is still needed to provide the config.
[14:36] <natefinch> sinzui: so, the thing is, I need to be able to inspect the broken machine, and I thought we had established that I can't rdp into the machines brought up by the cloud-city creds
[14:37] <mup> Bug #1611463 changed: GUI: test_upgrade_gui failed KeyError: 'bootstrap-config' <ci> <juju-gui> <regression> <unit-tests> <juju-core:Invalid by jcsackett> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1611463>
[14:37] <mup> Bug #1611789 opened: GUI: test_upgrade_gui failed KeyError: 'cloud' <ci> <juju-gui> <regression> <unit-tests> <juju-core:Triaged by jcsackett> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1611789>
[14:40] <sinzui> natefinch: I don't know how to do that with azure. Can we open rdp using the azure portal?
[14:41] <natefinch> sinzui: yes.  If I can log into azure with the right credentials
[14:41] <sinzui> natefinch: ah. with azure you login as yourself. I can add you to the subscription
[14:42] <natefinch> sinzui: cool
[14:44] <sinzui> natefinch: Register with azure with your canonical address. When Azure knows it, I can add you
[15:03] <arosales> any work arounds folks know to kill a controller
[15:03]  * arosales getting http://paste.ubuntu.com/22918062/
[15:03] <arosales> I destroyed all the models separately
[15:10] <natefinch> sinzui: oh, can you just use my current azure account? it's<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[15:10] <sinzui> natefinch: no, this is a canonical account
[15:14] <natefinch> sinzui: is that a can't or won't?  I really don't want to have to keep track of multiple microsoft accounts if I can avoid it
[15:14] <sinzui> natefinch: I wont. and I understand the pain
[15:15] <natefinch> sinzui: I guess I don't understand why it matters what email address I used to sign up with
[15:15] <sinzui> natefinch: this isn't my account. it is canonicals and it gets audited
[15:15] <natefinch> sinzui: ahh.  OK, I get it.
[15:20] <natefinch> sinzui: ok, I have a<EMAIL_ADDRESS>azure account now
[15:20] <sinzui> natefinch: reload the page in azure, I think you can see all the resource groups and vms
[15:22] <natefinch> sinzui: ahh yes, once I switch to your directory
[15:45] <natefinch> perrito666: works for me
[15:50] <mgz> balloons: you're not on the other network...
[15:51] <mgz> balloons: see lp:~juju-qa/ubuntu/yakkety/juju/juju-1.25.6 for the base branch without bug fixes or the per-series versions
[15:55] <perrito666> aghh 4 hours chasing an isolation problem
[15:57] <balloons> mgz, ty
[15:58] <mgz> balloons: there are some existing lintian warnings that I didn't fix
[16:00] <balloons> mgz, sorry can you link me again.. I bounced my bouncer
[16:01] <mgz> balloons: lp:~juju-qa/ubuntu/yakkety/juju/juju-1.25.6
[16:05] <redir> morning
[16:34] <balloons> natefinch, sadly looks like updating a dependency perhaps is causing a unit test failure? What do you make of http://juju-ci.vapour.ws:8080/job/github-merge-juju/8699/artifact/artifacts/trusty-out.log/*view*/?
[16:34] <balloons> natefinch, I'm still trying to land that gnuflags update from yesterday :-)
[16:36] <mgz> balloons: did fail the same way both times
[16:36] <balloons> yes it did
[16:37] <mgz> what's the diff between the gnuflag packages before and after updaye?
[16:38] <balloons> nothing. it was merely a move from bzr to git and lp to github
[16:38] <balloons> but I pulled forward some outdated depends in a few other places
[16:39] <natefinch> balloons: looking
[16:40] <natefinch> balloons: just a spurious failure... retry
[16:41] <balloons> what's our opinions on these spurious failures -- Are we proactively fixing these / filing bugs / disabling?
[16:41] <mgz> natefinch: I haven't seen the uniter tests fail like that before
[16:42] <mgz> cannot set invalid status "rebooting" seems... not good
[16:43] <natefinch> yeah I was just looking at that line
[16:43] <natefinch> but that's obviously nothing to do with gnuflags
[16:44] <natefinch> the reboot tests have always been a little flaky
[16:44] <mgz> we've not had that test fail in CI since May
[16:44] <mgz> and then it was a catacomb race
[16:44] <mgz> not this error
[16:44] <natefinch> ERROR juju.apiserver Unable to prime /mnt/tmp/check-2402074302189717898/174/logsink.log (proceeding anyway): chown /mnt/tmp/check-2402074302189717898/174/logsink.log: operation not permitted
[16:45] <mgz> ...also interesting, though likely not fatal
[16:45] <katco> natefinch: mgz: i've seen that before
[16:45] <mgz> katco: which?
[16:46] <katco> mgz: the error message natefinch just posted
[16:46] <mgz> seems like we need to file at least two bugs...
[16:47] <mgz> and I still think balloons' branch is causing this test to fail somehow
[16:47] <katco> mgz: i assumed it was something to do with the test environment
[16:47] <mgz> though I don't have a good guess remaining on why
[16:48] <mgz> katco: yeah, I think it probably is, and likely is just fine in general because the tests probably don't care about logsink
[16:48] <mgz> but the code is obviously expecting to be root when running but happening as a normal user when called from a unit test
[16:48] <mgz> really it's an isolation escape...
[16:49] <mgz> anyway, not causing this failure, just visible as the log is shown
[16:52] <mgz> balloons: so, I don't think it will hurt to try landing again, but I bet it will fail again
[16:53] <balloons> it got conflicted again
[16:53] <balloons> i'll have to fix
[16:53] <mgz> yeah, joy for mass renaming
[16:53] <mgz> balloons: can you split out the bits?
[16:53] <mgz> just do one branch with one dep change
[16:53] <natefinch> balloons: gah, sorry... that's one of the reasons I was trying to rush with LGTMs last night, because I knew it had to go in quick or get conflicted to death
[16:53] <mgz> get that landed
[16:53] <mgz> then do the next
[16:53] <mgz> then do the snapcraft bits?
[16:53] <balloons> I don't mind the conflicts, it's fine
[16:54] <mgz> well, it adds another point of failure
[16:54] <balloons> and I had to make a feature branch this morning to depend on it
[16:54] <mgz> if you misresolve after review
[16:54] <balloons> impossible to conflict with snapcraft almost -- it's new
[17:08] <ionutbalutoiu> Hello, guys! How are the upstream juju tools for 2.0 beta are generated for Windows ? I tried generating them myself and got this weird error when running the juju service on Nano Server: http://paste.ubuntu.com/22928687/. But on the other side, if use the upstream ones, they work on Nano without a problem.
[17:13] <natefinch> ionutbalutoiu: that's a weird error
[17:14] <ionutbalutoiu> Wondering if when generating the tools you guys pass any extra parameters or something. I just pull the sources, do godeps and go install.
[17:15] <natefinch> you're sure the ones we build on nano work?  because I see some Go bugs about not running on nano
[17:15] <alexisb> redir, ping
[17:15] <redir> pong
[17:15] <alexisb> redir, can you please get this in your review q: http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/5403/
[17:15] <redir> yup
[17:16] <alexisb> thanks
[17:16] <ionutbalutoiu> natefinch: Even today I bootstrapped Nano with beta14 and upstream tools and Nano worked.
[17:16] <ionutbalutoiu> natefinch: bootstrapped an env and deployed Nano **
[17:18] <redir> do I need to setup mass to test the proposed change? uh
[17:18]  * redir has no maas
[17:18] <natefinch> ionutbalutoiu: oh, looks like it's maybe not a bug in 1.6.0
[17:19] <natefinch> sinzui: what version of Go do we build our windows tools with?
[17:19] <ionutbalutoiu> natefinch: 1.6.3
[17:31] <natefinch> ionutbalutoiu: there's a bug on this issue for the Go language: https://github.com/golang/go/issues/15286  it seems to indicate that building with 1.6.0 should work.  I'd recommend trying that.
[17:31] <redir> I am seeing http://paste.ubuntu.com/22931893/ this locally, but don't think it should be related to my current branch. Does anyone know what it is?
[17:32] <sinzui> natefinch: 1.6-0 from Ubuntu trusty. it is cross-compiled
[17:34] <ionutbalutoiu> natefinch: Thanks! I'll give it a shot right now and see if it works.
[17:50] <natefinch> sinzui: is there a reason we're not building the tools with a newer version of Go?  There are some security fixes in 1.6.1 and bug fixes in general in .2 and .3
[17:50] <natefinch> (aside from the fact that it'll evidently break windows nano)
[17:51] <sinzui> natefinch: we use what Ubuntu provides. It is possible to use a newer version if the work is scheduled.
[17:52] <ionutbalutoiu> natefinch: Go 1.6.0 worked. :)
[17:53] <natefinch> sinzui: I guess I was just thinking that we control what's in streams, so we can build with whatever version we like, as long as the code also builds with what's in Ubuntu
[17:53] <natefinch> ionutbalutoiu: awesome
[17:57] <sinzui> natefinch: well I am not too keen on arbitray Gos. That is what got us into a mess with utopic. vivid, and wily. I want one go version to do everything. We do want to control the go version. I don't want yakkety's Go 1.7 without using it every where.
[17:58] <sinzui> natefinch: balloons and I want to make CI build all agents separate from ubuntu. Our packages will onyl contain the client. Te client will be buillt with the Go Ubuntu chooses, but the agents use the best Go we can use everywhere
[17:59] <natefinch> sinzui: that sounds awesome
[17:59] <sinzui> natefinch: yeah, I wish the plan was a priority
[18:04] <natefinch> ahh ffs... OSError: [Errno 17] File exists: './logs/controller'
[18:06] <natefinch> there goes 10 minutes of my day :/
[18:19] <redir> natefinch: I think that twice every time I run the test suite
[18:19] <natefinch> yeah
[18:29] <natefinch> sinzui:  I keep seeing this: Provisioning failed. Shrinking a disk from<PHONE_NUMBER>12 bytes to<PHONE_NUMBER>0 bytes is not supported.. ResizeDiskError
[18:30] <sinzui> natefinch: on the bootstrap machine?
[18:30] <natefinch> sinzui: this is using origin/master
[18:30] <natefinch> sinzui: no, looks like only on the non-controller model
[18:31] <natefinch> so, windows
[18:31] <sinzui> natefinch: ah, that is interesting. We cannot get logs from the windows machines so we cannot see what is going wrong
[18:33] <natefinch> sinzui: looks like we're not even successfully starting the vm
[18:33] <sinzui> :/
[18:54] <natefinch> sinzui: I'm going to go write some code and poke axw when he comes on.  Maybe he'll have an idea what's going on.  Google hasn't been much help
[18:55] <sinzui> natefinch: ack
[18:56] <mup> Bug #1606278 changed: juju (2.0) deploy <charm-name>/<revision#> fails <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1606278>
[19:03] <mbruzek> I am having some problems with the "charm publish" command, I got this : ERROR cannot publish charm or bundle: cannot publish charm or bundle: cannot update base entity for "cs:~containers/kubernetes-6": Field name duplication not allowed with modifiers
[19:03] <balloons> sinzui, do you think there is a risk in removing jujud from 1.25 packages?
[19:03] <mbruzek> oh sorry, wrong channel.
[19:03] <mbruzek> forgive me
[19:03] <sinzui> balloons: from our packages or ubuntus?
[19:04] <balloons> sinzui, ubuntu's really, but I suppose our stable ppa's too
[19:04] <balloons> sinzui, my thought is it's not a kosher change, and we should seek to do it in 2.0 only
[19:04] <sinzui> balloons: you cannot remove jujud from our packages until you change CI to make all the agents and change the rlease scripts to retrieve them instead of getting from the the debs
[19:05] <balloons> sinzui, right, apart from that
[19:06] <balloons> I feel like 1.25 workflows might use it (who knows what some folks are doing), while since 2.0 isn't released yet, and --upload-tools is dying, we can feel better about removing it
[19:06] <natefinch> manual provider needs it
[19:06] <natefinch> doesn't it?
[19:06] <balloons> well, our adt tests will break without it for instance, :-)
[19:06]  * natefinch forgets
[19:07] <sinzui> balloons: by removing jujud from ubuntu's packages, we ensure no bad jujuds get into production. This prevents uses from using --upload-tools. Users need to ise sync-tools and bootstrap --metadata-source to use a closed network
[19:08] <sinzui> natefinch: manual does not need it because manual works across arch
[19:08] <natefinch> sinzui: good point
[19:08] <balloons> sinzui, I agree but I guess I'm saying removing a binary isn't really a bugfix SRU, and I think it's saner just to leave it packaged for 1.x series
[19:09] <sinzui> natefinch: I wish add-machine worked with windows. We could start a win2012r2, then add-machine to prove the agent works if the machine comes up
[19:12] <natefinch> sinzui: is there a bug filed for that?  I didn't realize add-machine didn't work for windows.
[19:14] <sinzui> natefinch: i thought there was. I brought it up many times in the past. windows doesn't come with ssh and juju doesn't support winrm.
[19:19] <natefinch> sinzui: I don't understand why that matters.  We obviously have the ability to bring up a windows machine using juju during deploy.  There's no reason we can't reuse that code and just not deploy anything.
[19:20] <sinzui> natefinch: with the azure provider, it should not matter. add-machine will ask azure to bring up a machine.
[19:20] <rick_h_> perrito666: heads up that macgreagoir looked at the pr, I qa'd it and he's got a question before it can land in case we want to get it into the beta tomorrow https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/5747
[19:21] <perrito666> rick_h_: yup its on my today queue
[19:21] <rick_h_> perrito666: coolio
[19:22] <perrito666> rick_h_: no need to throw bad 90s music at me ill do it
[19:22] <rick_h_> perrito666: :P
[19:24]  * perrito666 sees there is an upgrade for the fortran library... what in the univers is using fortran in my computer
[19:25] <natefinch> lol
[19:56] <mup> Bug #1611789 changed: GUI: test_upgrade_gui failed KeyError: 'cloud' <ci> <juju-gui> <regression> <unit-tests> <juju-core:Invalid by jcsackett> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1611789>
[21:18] <balloons> natefinch, 3 runs, 3 fails all on that uniter test
[21:19] <balloons> I have to believe it's something in the diff
[21:20] <mgz> balloons: can you land just the tomb change or just the gnuflag change?
[21:21] <balloons> it may be possible to land just the tomb change. But I'm lockstep now. it's already landed in the underlying repos; it can't be split now
[21:25] <balloons> I guess I was hoping for understanding why the test is failing -- gnuflag and tomb did NOT change at all
[21:26] <balloons> so mgz, the only possible source of difference is in juju/utils: https://github.com/juju/utils/pull/230/files
[21:26] <balloons> But to be fair, that's landed, so in theory that should affect everyone's builds right? So there is no reason I can think of why it's failing
[21:27] <balloons> ohh right.. they aren't using it, so indeed, I can say that's the issue :-)
[21:28] <mgz> balloons: so, that utils rev hasn't changed anything, but you mean there are other interveening changes?
[21:28] <balloons> mgz, that utils rev pulls newer versions of other dependencies. newer commits
[21:28] <mgz> balloons: that's actually unimportant
[21:29] <balloons> that's the only place code could have actually changed though.. nothing else has changed
[21:29] <mgz> as when juju itself builds, it goes off its dependencies.tsv which overrides the one in any deps
[21:29] <balloons> true.. I just am at a loss as to what the issue could be
[21:31] <mgz> balloons: run our build tarball script for before and after
[21:31] <mgz> and do a diff on the whole tree, and send me that
[21:32] <mgz> it's possible there's actually no code change and this is compiler oddness, but I bet we do have a functional change hidden in there
[21:32] <anastasiamac> alexisb: rick_h_: release call :)
[21:32] <alexisb> anastasiamac, be there soon
[21:36] <mup> Bug #1418139 changed: Can't reprovision a machine with manual provider <bootstrap> <destroy-environment> <manual-provider> <manual-story> <juju-core:Fix Released by natefinch> <juju-core 1.25:Fix Released by natefinch> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1418139>
[22:12] <balloons> mgz, pulling the source tarball shows only the expected changes
[22:12] <balloons> I'm giving.. I'll split it tomorrow as you suggest and don't land it together
[22:12] <balloons> perhaps we can piecemeal the problem out
[22:13] <mgz> balloons: I see changes in utils exec code and changes in arg parsing
[22:13] <mgz> the uniter tests are unfortunately a twisty mess so it's unclear why it's now unhappy
[22:13] <mgz> probably just want to bug william (or maybe horacio?) to have a look at the test output vs diff
[22:33] <mup> Bug #1520571 changed: Juju destroy-environment stacktraces on local provider. <landscape> <juju-core:Invalid> <juju-core 1.25:Won't Fix> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1520571>
[22:34] <mgz> balloons: this is perfectly reproducable locally
[22:45] <mgz> balloons: it fails because of the utils exec change
[22:46] <mgz> juju/utils pr #203
[22:46] <mgz> presumably because the test framework is somewhat bogus and doesn't expect the error right away, which it should
[22:51] <mup> Bug #1610037 changed: Juju2 beta14, missing network stanzas. <sts-needs-review> <juju-core:Invalid> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1610037>
[22:51] <mup> Bug #1611981 opened: LXD guests not configured due to the lack of DHCP on the interface selected as eth0 <sts> <juju-core:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1611981>
[23:19] <menn0> wallyworld, alexisb: no hangout?
[23:19] <menn0> standup even
[23:20] <wallyworld> menn0: yeah, we are here
[23:20] <wallyworld> https://hangouts.google.com/hangouts/_/canonical.com/a-team-standup?authuser=1
[23:20] <perrito666> menn0: you are in the old one
[23:33] <mup> Bug #1611990 opened: maas bootstrap fails if maasrc is missing <bootstrap> <maas-provider> <juju-core:In Progress by wallyworld> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1611990>
[23:50] <alexisb> axw, I need a few minutes of your time
[23:50] <alexisb> if you dont mind
[23:50] <axw> alexisb: sure, gtg help with kids soon though
[23:50] <alexisb> it should be quick
[23:50] <alexisb> https://hangouts.google.com/hangouts/_/canonical.com/alexis-bruemmer


[09:22] <New_User> Hi everyone, i just have a question. Is it planned to add system-monitor extension on ubuntu budgie 17.04 or next versions? It look like that http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6217/6391212177_5db2cac9c3_b.jpg
[09:48] <fossfreedom_> New_User: No plans upstream for something like that.  This would need a nice project for an enterprising developer to-do.
[09:51] <fossfreedom_> New_User: you could just use a normal appindicator in Ubuntu Budgie that presents this information - quite a few around - for example https://sysads.co.uk/2014/06/16/install-system-load-indicator-0-4-in-ubuntu-14-04/
[09:52] <New_User> Thank you so much for the link, seems interesting. Have a good day.


[12:30] <caribou> Hello everyone, did someone report issues with cloud-init cloud-config & cloud-final services being blocked by snapd in recent ubuntu cloud images ?
[12:31] <caribou> All I can find is a recent discussion in linuxcontainers.org reporting similar issues
[12:36] <caribou> well looks like it's more of a snapd problem than cloud-init
[12:50] <caribou> ok, it IS snapd's fault; removing the package release the cloud-config & cloud-final jobs
[12:50] <caribou> any snapd IRC channel around ?
[12:57] <caribou> FYI : https://bugs.launchpad.net/snapd/+bug/1874249
[13:33] <Odd_Bloke> caribou: I haven't seen that particular failure.  BTW, it looks like you have truncated lines in your journal output there, which might make it harder for the snapd folks to debug.
[13:35] <caribou> just got it today with the new cloudimg
[13:35] <caribou> ok, I'll check the logs & add a new set
[17:55] <blackboxsw> Odd_Bloke: I see the same issue I'm seeing over on ua-client repo. no travis links to jobs that are in progress. https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/323  have you  noticed this before?
[17:56] <blackboxsw> I'm finding as well on ua-client that even completed travis jobs are not firing a status response back to the source PR, so it remains unmergeable
[17:56] <Odd_Bloke> It happens from time-to-time, yeah.
[17:57] <Odd_Bloke> Migrating to travis-ci.com should also fix this, I believe.
[17:57] <Odd_Bloke> (Because AIUI .org uses an older, now-deprecated GitHub API.)
[17:59] <blackboxsw> similar to intermittent probs like this I think https://github.com/travis-ci/travis-ci/issues/7363
[17:59] <blackboxsw> gotcha
[18:00] <blackboxsw> yeah I can see your travis run has completed with success https://travis-ci.org/github/canonical/cloud-init/builds/678274876 but no status update on your PR yet https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/323
[18:00] <Odd_Bloke> Yep.
[18:03] <blackboxsw> https://www.githubstatus.com/ github issue:  Update - We have implemented a fix and are processing a backlog of notifications.
[18:03] <blackboxsw> Apr 22, 01:26 UTC
[18:03] <Odd_Bloke> Travis reported they were operational after that.
[18:04] <Odd_Bloke> Oh, not after that, but I think notifications are probably user-facing notifications?
[18:04] <Odd_Bloke> https://www.traviscistatus.com/incidents/bj882gcyxh9v corresponded to https://www.githubstatus.com/incidents/dsf2qtzh4jpz
[20:06] <AnhVoMSFT> if I want cloudinit to write netplan yml file into /run/netplan, where is the right place to change the netplan_path?
[20:07] <AnhVoMSFT> I changed it in the datasource's __init__ (distro.renderer_configs['netplan']['netplan_path']) but I don't think it's being picked up
[20:27] <Odd_Bloke> AnhVoMSFT: I don't know off the top of my head.  What are you trying to achieve by doing this?
[20:30] <AnhVoMSFT> cloud-init, once disabled/removed leaves behind the /etc/netplan/50-...yml configuration file that has a mac address hardcoded in it. This causes problem for customers who snapshots the VHD and wants to boot them up as a separate VM.
[20:31] <AnhVoMSFT> since network configuration is re-generated upon every boot on Azure anyway, it makes more sense to write the netplan configuration file in /run where it does not persist across boot
[20:32] <AnhVoMSFT> I'm trying to change the path of the netplan config from within the datasource so that it writes to /run/netplan instead
[20:34] <Odd_Bloke> Shouldn't cloud-init run on those VMs and regenerate the correct configuration (with the appropriate MACs for that VM)?
[20:38] <AnhVoMSFT> A couple scenarios where that does not work: 1) Customers already disabled/removed cloud-init, 2) In some scenarios, the metadata source isn't available when booting these VHDs
[20:42] <AnhVoMSFT> So I changed the distro's renderer_config that was passed to the datasource, but when I print it out from distros/__init__.py's _supported_write_network_config, it does not seem like the change was picked up
[20:51] <Odd_Bloke> And what would happen to an instance that was rebooted and had cloud-init fail for some reason?  I think it would fall off the network if its networking config was all in /run?
[20:56] <AnhVoMSFT> That is a good point. I think it would depend on when/where cloud-init fails. Let me think about it a bit
[21:00] <Odd_Bloke> In fact, (1) is a case where storing the network config in /run would fail too, isn't it?  `apt remove cloud-init; reboot` -> no network config
[21:02] <AnhVoMSFT> indeed. Would writing a netplan file into /etc/netplan without a mac address, then write one with mac-address into /run work? thinking out loud
[21:03] <AnhVoMSFT> although that is probably as good as not writing mac address into /etc in the first place
[21:05] <Odd_Bloke> AnhVoMSFT: This feels quite complex, and I'm worried that we will miss/forget stuff if we discuss it in IRC.  Do you think you could file a bug for it so that we can make sure we all understand the requirements/problem statement?
[21:06] <AnhVoMSFT> let me see if we had an existing bug on it
[21:07] <AnhVoMSFT> we did talk about this with Ryan and Josh in one of our sync meetings and at the time the /run approach seemed reasonable, but you pointed out a pretty big gap
[21:07] <AnhVoMSFT> I guess the main problem is cloud-init is leaving behind the netplan file with a hardcoded mac address in it
[21:08] <Odd_Bloke> Well, it's "leaving it behind" so that it can apply network configuration correctly on the next boot, so it's not entirely a "problem". :)
[21:09] <AnhVoMSFT> I think what I meant was when it gets removed/uninstalled, etc...
[21:09] <AnhVoMSFT> but the problem isn't so much of leaving it behind, the problem is it hardcodes the mac address in it, which potentially can become stale and if there isn't an entity that updates it
[21:12] <Odd_Bloke> Right, but I think hardcoding the MAC address is the correct thing to do in the general case.  Because if we don't do it then, potentially, on future boots, interfaces can be presented to userspace with different names (this can happen due to races in the kernel, so it's not platform-specific, or it can be the platform presenting them at different PCI addresses), and we'll apply incorrect configuration.
[21:13] <Odd_Bloke> (Do you already have a deprovisioning process that these customers are expected to follow?  Could that be expanded to include a step which calls cloud-init somehow?)
[21:14] <AnhVoMSFT> if there is only one nic there's no need for hardcoding mac. Or do we still need to hardcode it?
[21:14] <AnhVoMSFT> the trouble is the backup/restore scenario where the customer takes snapshot or backups the OSDisk, then later restore it (as a different VM)
[21:15] <AnhVoMSFT> although backup/restore might not be as big of a problem if they provision it again as a normal VM, because cloud-init will run and perform network config
[21:15] <Odd_Bloke> And boots of those restored VMs don't run cloud-init?
[21:15] <Odd_Bloke> Aha, we raced on the question and answer there. :)
[21:15] <AnhVoMSFT> only if they attach OS Disk as specialize VM (which is the only way to boot up from a vhd today)
[21:16] <AnhVoMSFT> so there're some limitation of the platform there - when attaching disk as specialize vhd there isn't provisioning information being made available and cloud-init fails at some point earlier on and doesn't really do network config if I remember correctly
[21:17] <AnhVoMSFT> (it would fail to find Azure datasource, because there's no provisioning ISO attached)
[21:18] <Odd_Bloke> To answer a slightly earlier question: we wouldn't need to hardcode the MAC if we were sure there would only _ever_ be one NIC.  But instances could have NICs attached, or disk images could be restored to systems with multiple NICs, so we can't assume that.
[21:19] <Odd_Bloke> (Obviously the restore case would break with a hardcoded MAC, so perhaps that wasn't the best example.  Still, the attach case is valid.)
[21:19] <AnhVoMSFT> yeah, customers can add new NIC, reboot, and probably lose network :-)
[21:20] <AnhVoMSFT> actually in that case no, because when they reboot they will get new config with 2 NICs and we'll be writing network config correctly (hopefully)
[21:21] <Odd_Bloke> Right, this would be the case where cloud-init had been disabled, I guess.
[21:22] <Odd_Bloke> Instance booted with a single NIC, cloud-init persists MAC address, cloud-init is removed, NIC added, reboot -> the cloud-init generated config will still reliably apply to the original NIC
[21:22] <Odd_Bloke> (Right?)
[21:22] <AnhVoMSFT> right
[21:22] <AnhVoMSFT> this is tricky...
[21:23] <Odd_Bloke> Agreed.
[21:23] <Odd_Bloke> :p
[21:23] <AnhVoMSFT> let me look into the scenario where we boot up vhd and no provisioning ISO attached
[21:24] <Odd_Bloke> Yeah, this definitely feels like we need to understand the exact requirements driving the change, because that could make a substantial difference to the solution.
[21:24] <AnhVoMSFT> perhaps we can do something there
[21:25] <AnhVoMSFT> yeah, we have these support cases from backup/restore customers who now fail to boot up VM due to mac address in netplan. I will take a closer look and perhaps file a bug with better details so we can discuss
[21:25] <Odd_Bloke> OK, cool, thank you!
[21:26] <AnhVoMSFT> thanks Odd_Bloke


[12:14] <jbailey> Ahahah.  Someone went through the effort of registering ubuntu.suxx? =)
[12:15] <bluefoxicy> suxx.pl with a subdomain ubuntu
[12:16] <jbailey> I just think it's funny. =)
[12:16] <jbailey> Some people like us, some people hate us. =)
[12:16] <bluefoxicy> watch this.
[12:16] <bluefoxicy> gimme 2 minutes.
[12:19] <bluefoxicy> jbailey: ubuntu-dapper.kicks-ass.net
[12:19] <bluefoxicy> :>
[12:19] <jbailey> =)
[12:24] <zyga> bluefoxicy: suxx.pl is my domain
[12:24] <zyga> ubuntu is just a topic subdomain
[12:24] <zyga> I had a bad day when I registered suxx.pl but now it's just history :)
[12:25] <zyga> I like ubuntu alot :D
[12:25] <zyga> jbailey: do you happen to use itanium?
[12:31] <jbailey> zyga: FSVO 'use'
[12:32] <zyga> great, do you happen to need a dual CPU daughterboard for free?
[12:32] <zyga> for itanium 1 :/
[12:32] <jbailey> Nope.  Mine's a dual 900mhz itanium 2.
[12:32] <zyga> I've got two itanium 2 cpus as well but I plan to use them as soon as I find a mobo :)
[12:32] <zyga> eh :)
[12:32] <zyga> those things are pricey :)
[12:33] <jbailey> I got a bit lucky with that particular hardware acquisition.
[12:33] <zyga> well so did I, I guess
[12:34] <zyga> both cpu's cost about 20$
[12:34] <zyga> 10$ / cpu
[12:34] <zyga> even less than that useless daugtherboard :)
[12:35] <infinity> zyga: You could mail me the daughterboard and I could use it to decorate my house.
[12:35] <infinity> zyga: I suspect you'll have a hard time finding someone who will actually USE it, though.
[12:36] <zyga> if you cover the shipping I might ;]  I also posted it on to the debian-hw-donations project
[12:36] <zyga> I might end up buys the remaining bits to assemble an itanium 1 box
[12:36] <zyga> it's brand new you know :)
[12:37] <zyga> I kind of like the connector :)
[12:37] <zyga> looks like some ancient computer card :D
[01:14] <bluefoxicy> oh holy shit it works!
[01:18] <jbailey> bluefoxicy: it?
[01:23] <bluefoxicy> jbailey:  http://rafb.net/paste/results/VkXzkF11.html paxtest on ubuntu
[01:24] <bluefoxicy> I wrote a small kernel patch, and then booted the new kernel with stack_random_bits=22 mmap_random_bits=16
[01:24] <bluefoxicy> http://rafb.net/paste/results/gI4UFC11.html
[01:25] <jbailey> bluefoxicy: I was reading drepper's blog on the lock downs that they did.  Neat stuff.
[01:25] <jbailey> I hope we can do that for edgy.
[01:25] <bluefoxicy> on what?
[01:25] <jbailey> Lemme find the posting for you
[01:25] <bluefoxicy> jbailey:  yeah.  I want to try to get this patch into mainline, but I'm hoping maybe I can get ubuntu behind me?
[01:26] <bluefoxicy> It lets you adjust mmap() and stack randomization at boot time
[01:26] <bluefoxicy> the stack by default shifts around in 8 megs, mmap() base in 1 meg
[01:27] <jbailey> http://udrepper.livejournal.com/9666.html
[01:27] <jbailey> bluefoxicy: Dunno.  I'm not involved in the kernel at all.
[01:27] <bluefoxicy> this gives (to granularity of 16 bytes) 524288 positions in 128 pages for stack; and (to granularity of 4096 bytes) 256 positions for the mmap() base (libraries etc)
[01:27] <jbailey> I just show up here to  harass Ben. =)
[01:28] <bluefoxicy> Of course the stack you might throw 4096 bytes of stuffing into and make that 128 ranges your attack works in...
[01:29] <bluefoxicy> in such a case, imagine we have say 1000 users who get attacked on a vulnerability protected by this.  That's 1/128 success, maybe 10 fall to it? (gaim has an executable stack, x86 tends to have an executable stack...)
[01:29] <bluefoxicy> worst case scenario.
[01:31] <bluefoxicy> ah
[01:31] <bluefoxicy> that's nice, yes
[01:31] <jbailey> Right.  I'd like us to follow this if we could for edgy.
[01:31] <jbailey> I think it would be very hard.
[01:31] <jbailey> Third party programs are likely to also cause troubles.
[01:31] <bluefoxicy> I know nvidia glx breaks due to that stuff (because PAX BROKE NVIDIA GLX AND WE BITCHED AT THEM FOR 3 YEARS BEFORE GIVING UP)
[01:31] <bluefoxicy> nVIdia will never care.
[01:31] <bluefoxicy> they'll just say, "Well turn the security off."
[01:32] <bluefoxicy> Really, it's not a matter of negotiating, 3 years of negotiation did nothing.    And he could then go write scary makefiles instead?
[01:36] <jbailey> Joy.
[01:36] <bluefoxicy> but he hates open source stuff.
[01:36] <bluefoxicy> it's an egoism thing
[01:36] <jbailey> lifeless: Eh, didn't know you trakced this channel. =)
[01:36] <bluefoxicy> but the guy picked up a game cube and started writing stuff to control its hardware
[01:37] <bluefoxicy> could reverse engineer shit
[01:37] <infinity> jbailey: Well, he's an X hacker, so probably already know scary Imake. :)
[01:37] <bluefoxicy> it didn't seem like a big deal to him, he was just really smart
[02:03] <mjg59> There are people working on an open nvidia driver
[02:09] <bluefoxicy> hey mj
[02:10] <bluefoxicy> http://rafb.net/paste/results/1GRXs654.html about to send this to lkml to see what I get.
[02:47] <zul> hey
[02:58] <zul> how was you guys day off?
[03:02] <bluefoxicy> WTF?
[03:02] <bluefoxicy> Thunderbird suggests "testatrix" in place of "paxtest"
[03:02] <bluefoxicy> ubotu... dammit wrong channel
[04:02] <bluefoxicy> http://lkml.org/lkml/2006/5/19/219  And there it goes.
[05:12] <dilinger> mm.  people aren't going to like that hardcoded page size
[05:12] <bluefoxicy> mm.
[05:12] <bluefoxicy> I did note as a FIXME to replace 4096 with PAGE_SIZE
[05:12] <dilinger> yep
[05:13] <bluefoxicy> I will have to rewrite some of the logic for that of course.
[05:13] <bluefoxicy> the semantics of stack_random_bits for example means the stack can take on 2^stack_random_bits different values.
[05:14] <bluefoxicy> if you lose the ability to shift by 16 bytes at a time then 16 bits of stack randomization is 256M; otherwise 24 bits is 256M
[05:15] <bluefoxicy> similarly, if your pages are 8KiB instead of 4KiB you have to use the first 9 bits for intra-page randomization and the rest for page randomization.
[05:15] <bluefoxicy> and of course mmap() randomization is straight randomization * PAGE_SIZE, which is easy
[05:15] <bluefoxicy> the stack stuff however requires log base 2 calculations.
[05:18] <bluefoxicy> dilinger:  to be fair, the original shifted around by 8192 (2 pages) for sub-page stack randomization.
[05:32] <bluefoxicy> Anyone know how to log(2,n) something?
[07:12] <bluefoxicy> dilinger:  fixed.
[10:05] <kimo> why does the topic still say -22 ! duh, I'm on -23 now
[02:01] <BenC> dpkg-deb: building package `linux-image-2.6.17-1-powerpc' in `../linux-image-2.6.17-1-powerpc_2.6.17-1.1_powerpc.deb'.
[02:01] <BenC> yummy
[02:41] <BenC> sweet, full build of 2.6.17-git for edgy on powerpc
[02:52] <BenC> Linux colorless 2.6.17-1-powerpc #1 Sat May 20 01:39:11 EDT 2006 ppc GNU/Linux
[02:58] <bluefoxicy> aye ben.
[03:02] <bluefoxicy> http://rafb.net/paste/results/b1eCH937.html  Think I got a shot at getting this one into Edgy as per https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDownUnder/BOFs/ProactiveSecurityRoadmap ?
[03:02] <bluefoxicy> I'm still working on it, gotta handle some logic for x86-64 with IA-32 emulation specifically.
[03:03] <bluefoxicy> (wouldn't want randomization over 1TiB of VA space and suddenly an IA-32 process tries to put stuff at 0x001C000000000000 and finds VMA isn't that long)
[03:06] <BenC> cool
[03:29] <bluefoxicy> aha, got it
[03:29] <bluefoxicy> I used TASK_SIZE / 6 as my random interval
[03:30] <bluefoxicy> so IA-32 code should let you tell it to randomize mmap() by 512M and stack by 512M; x86-64 assuming VMA space is 192TiB (of the 48 bit 256TiB space the CPU gives us) would give 32TiB max
[03:30] <bluefoxicy> but if you don't specify on the kernel command line, it'll just do 1MiB mmap() and 8MiB stack, as it does now :)
[03:30] <bluefoxicy> I should probably cut that back to TASK_SIZE/12
[03:31] <bluefoxicy> since I know /6 will have issues on IA-32
[03:33] <bluefoxicy> anyway gotta go for about an hour, be back in a bit.
[03:35] <bluefoxicy> (what I really need is a guaranteed TASK_STACK_ALIGN, which should always be 16, to determine how much alignment the stack needs for randomization)
[06:33] <bluefoxicy> yay
[06:33] <zul> heylo
[06:33] <bluefoxicy> my patch looks nice now, and it still patches to the dapper one ;)
[06:33] <bluefoxicy> hey zul
[06:33] <zul> hey bluefoxicy
[06:34] <bluefoxicy> http://rafb.net/paste/results/VblFVp66.html  :>
[06:35] <bluefoxicy> hmm.  Build fails.
[06:36] <bluefoxicy> didn't define a long I used in one function.
[06:41] <bluefoxicy> now it works.
[06:42] <bluefoxicy> http://rafb.net/paste/results/pOP53u33.html  :)
[06:44] <bluefoxicy> shit.
[08:33] <holden> hi. does anyone know what /lib/modules/2.6.15-23-amd64-k8/volatile is for?
[08:34] <mjg59> For linking non-free modules
[08:35] <holden> mount reports:  lrm on /lib/modules/2.6.15-23-amd64-k8/volatile type tmpfs (rw)
[08:35] <holden> do I need it? how can i disable it?


[00:52] <Venim> hey, anyone know hwo to get a wallpaper stretched across 2 screens?
[02:00] <n0-n4m3> how do you customize the applications menu in xubuntu?
[02:42] <jroc> hey guys
[02:45] <jroc> want command is to see what runs on what levels
[03:15] <Jp82191> hello all
[03:32] <n2diy>  My landlord needs a computer, and I offered to sell him my test box. The test box is my backup box, so I need to clean it up before I sell it. This is a first for me, I have a couple of boxes in the wild, but they were clean installs, how should I prep./clean my test box before letting it loose?
[03:59] <jung_> hallo
[03:59] <jung_> i'm new to xubutu
[03:59] <jung_> i just installed it and i have problem with cd-rom
[04:00] <jung_> it won't detact my cd-rom
[04:00] <jung_> help
[04:41] <oorah> well, i tried out moblin, and hated it
[04:42] <oorah> i felt like i had almost no control of the system lol
[04:42] <oorah> and it doesn't boot up much faster
[05:22] <Balsaq> good morning to all of you who reside here in the land of xubuntu
[05:35] <Balsaq> haluta käsittää itunes kotona lähinnä xubuntu ohjelmoida ilmaista koodikielellä polveutua Suomi!
[05:51] <petsounds> Balsaq, itunes program?
[05:51] <Balsaq> yes it seems to be in great demand
[08:45] <jst> Does anyone know if there's a gadget that can interface with parole (the multimedia player?
[12:33] <FelpsJ> How can I create a shortcut for terminal on my panel?
[12:35] <Ov3rf10w> right click on the panel
[12:35] <Ov3rf10w> add item
[12:35] <Ov3rf10w> launcher
[12:35] <Ov3rf10w> command
[12:35] <Ov3rf10w> xfce4-terminal
[12:35] <Ov3rf10w> you can select icon for terminal
[15:12] <sim642> would pentium II 450mhz 128mb ram be enough for xubuntu?
[15:17] <Ov3rf10w> hmm...
[15:17] <Ov3rf10w> no
[15:19] <Ov3rf10w> sim642 maybe for linux without X :D
[15:33] <lighta> I need some help to install libpcap and ttfmscorefront librairie from an archive
[15:58] <s_> Hello, in xubuntu is gdm resposible for  the close/minimize bar?
[15:58] <vinnl> s_, no, that's xfwm4
[15:58] <s_> vinnl, thanks!
[16:06] <jarnos> Why is shutdown behind a password in Karmic?
[16:07] <vinnl> Probably has to do with preventing people from shutting down from a remote connection
[16:09] <oorah> i recently installed a distro i didn't like, and the only disc i have is Ubuntu 9.04. I use Xubuntu so what I did was install the disc, upgrade to 9.10, and then removed all gnome packages by the command in this link. http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/purexfce is this just as good as making a Xubuntu 9.10 disc and installing? any cons?
[16:10] <vinnl> oorah, that should be good enough, you might have some stuff left from 9.04 but nothing terrible
[16:10] <oorah> vinnl, oh ok thanks. just didn't feel like making a disc so i just installed 9.04, upgraded, left home and came back, then applied that command
[16:11] <vinnl> Yeah, if you do happen to experience serious issues you might still consider burning another disk, of course, but I strongly don't expect any issues to come up
[16:13] <oorah> what i did, did it upgrade the grub also?
[16:13] <vinnl> No I don't think it did
[16:13] <oorah> how do i update the grub?
[16:14] <vinnl> !grub1
[16:14] <vinnl> !grub2
[16:14] <vinnl> oorah, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Grub2#Installing%20/%20Upgrading
[16:32] <oorah> vinnl, it says sudo-upgrade-from-grub-legacy command not found
[16:34] <vinnl> oorah, you did do sudo apt-get install grub2?
[16:35] <oorah> vinnl, yes thats the first thing i did
[16:36] <vinnl> oorah, and that installed successfully?
[16:37] <oorah> sudo apt-get install grub2
[16:37] <oorah> Reading package lists... Done
[16:37] <oorah> Building dependency tree
[16:37] <oorah> Reading state information... Done
[16:37] <oorah> The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required:
[16:37] <oorah>   libicu40 python-evince python-gtksourceview binutils-static unixodbc
[16:37] <oorah>   python-gnomedesktop odbcinst1debian1 python-gnomeprint libpt2.6.4-plugins
[16:37] <oorah>   python-bugbuddy libpt2.6.4 python-totem-plparser xfce4-power-manager-data
[16:37] <oorah>   python-wnck python-nautilusburn python-gtop
[16:37] <oorah> Use 'apt-get autoremove' to remove them.
[16:37] <oorah> The following extra packages will be installed:
[16:37] <oorah>   grub-pc
[16:37] <oorah> Suggested packages:
[16:37] <vinnl> !paste | oorah
[16:37] <oorah>   desktop-base
[16:37] <oorah> The following packages will be REMOVED:
[16:37] <oorah>   grub
[16:37] <oorah> The following NEW packages will be installed:
[16:37] <oorah>   grub-pc grub2
[16:37] <oorah> 0 upgraded, 2 newly installed, 1 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
[16:37] <oorah> E: Could not get lock /var/cache/apt/archives/lock - open (11: Resource temporarily unavailable)
[16:37] <oorah> E: Unable to lock the download directory
[16:37] <oorah> did it?
[16:37] <oorah> well, not a lot of chatter, its not like i was intruding lol
[16:37] <vinnl> A lot of lines, I got ~20 beeps in a row because of that :S
[16:37] <vinnl> Anyway
[16:38] <vinnl> Do you happen to have Synaptic, Update Manager or something like that open?
[16:39] <oorah> vinnl, yes i do
[16:39] <vinnl> You have to close them first, or install grub2 through that :)
[16:40] <oorah> E: Could not get lock /var/cache/apt/archives/lock - open (11: Resource temporarily unavailable)
[16:40] <oorah> E: Unable to lock the download directory
[16:41] <oorah> vinnl, you get beeps?
[16:41] <vinnl> oorah, yes for every message in the channel. Anyway, have you closed the other package management applications?
[16:41] <oorah> terminal?
[16:42] <oorah> closed it and still says the same thing
[16:44] <vinnl> No Synaptic and whatever
[16:45] <oorah> well, synaptic is open of course, thats how i'm trying to install
[16:45] <vinnl> oorah, oh and Synaptic gives you that error message?
[16:46] <oorah> vinnl, yep
[16:46] <oorah> i think i should just do a fresh install
[16:46] <vinnl> oorah, no
[16:46] <oorah> i had the download goin while i was tryin to figure it out lol
[16:46] <oorah> is there a fix?
[16:46] <jurek_> Hello
[16:46] <vinnl> oorah, you were doing something concerning software installation that crashed, or something. Have you rebooted the computer since the upgrade?
[16:46] <vinnl> !hello | jurek_
[16:47] <jurek_> hello
[16:47] <oorah> vinnl, not since i got the error
[16:47] <jurek_> I got a problem...I cant seem to get my mic working...
[16:47] <oorah> i'll try that brb
[16:47] <vinnl> !microphone
[16:47] <vinnl> !mic
[16:48] <jurek_> in the terminal?
[16:49] <vinnl> No sorry
[16:49] <vinnl> I was trying to see if ubottu knew anything about mics
[16:49] <vinnl> ...because I don't
[16:49] <jurek_> ah
[16:51] <oorah> back it worked thanks
[16:51] <oorah> i didn't know what to put for chain load menu list so i left it blank
[16:52] <oorah> vinnl, it worked thanks
[16:53] <vinnl> oorah, great :)
[16:56] <oorah> might as well make a startup disc with the iso i downloaded. i wonder why unetbootin isn't default? the official one is a lot more buggy
[17:02] <jurek_> ok solved it :-)
[17:08] <dbdii407> Excuse me for asking this question (once again) What's that app that shows the windows borders in xUbuntu?
[17:08] <jurek_> compiz fusion?
[17:08] <dbdii407> Cause it never launched
[17:09] <dbdii407> No. Nothing with effects
[17:09] <dbdii407> It's comes with xfce
[17:09] <jurek_> hmm I dunno
[17:09] <jurek_> maybe in the settings?
[17:10]  * dbdii407 needs his window borders. D:
[17:10] <jurek_> hehe
[17:10] <dbdii407> I made a fresh install of this just now, logged in. No borders. I always have this issue
[17:11] <dbdii407> So now all new windows are stacked upon another in the top left
[17:11] <jurek_> I see I never had that
[17:12] <vinnl> dbdii407, xfwm4 by default
[17:13] <dbdii407> I'll try. I have to close this to check
[17:15] <dbdii407> Yep. That's it. Ty
[17:15] <vinnl> yw :)
[17:19] <dbdii407> Now to add all my regular Freenode channels to xChat
[17:21] <Dracco> Hello everybody. I have basicly 2 problems with my xubuntu, one with sound and other one with dual monitor. Anybody got a moment? ^^
[17:21] <vinnl> !sound
[17:21] <vinnl> Dracco, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SoundTroubleshooting should already help a lot
[17:21] <vinnl> Also:
[17:21] <vinnl> !ask
[17:21] <vinnl> :)
[17:22] <Dracco> uhm ok so:
[17:22] <Dracco> my sound problem is that i hear it, its perfect, music from exaile or vlc plays, got sound in browser, but TS, mangler and cvoicecontrol do not detect sound card
[17:23] <Dracco> dual monitor problem: when i plug additional monitor to my laptop, it just does not detect it
[17:23] <vinnl> Hmm, sounds like you can better ask in their channels
[17:23] <vinnl> !xrandr
[17:23] <Dracco> thanks :)
[17:25] <vinnl> That's all I know about it, though, I only have one screen and no sound problems ;-)
[17:25] <Dracco> going to get no sound problem too :P
[17:25] <vinnl> Haha, I hope so :)
[17:26] <Dracco> ok switching to my ubuntu, cya and once again thanks :)
[18:30] <Xfact> can I take support of xubuntu from Ubuntu because both are much same...
[18:30] <likemindead> Eh?
[18:31] <likemindead> They are similar, but there are many differences between Xfce & GNOME.
[19:10] <charlie-tca> bottom line is yes, you can take support from ubuntu as long it is for non-xfce specific items
[19:42] <Balsaq> Sysi? Sysi? where are you Sysi?
[20:14] <javatexan> anyone using touchfreeze with xubuntu 9.10?
[20:15] <simple_> selam hepinize.
[20:27] <simple_> how can i edit txt files on xubuntu
[20:27] <simple_> Can't open file to write
[20:28] <Ov3rf10w> simple_  with mousepad
[20:28] <simple_> it says that
[20:28] <Ov3rf10w> oh
[20:28] <Sysi> from where you are opening that?
[20:28] <Ov3rf10w> you need to be root for some files
[20:28] <charlie-tca> If it is not in your /home, use Alt+F2, gksu mousepad FILENAME
[20:28] <simple_> nautilus doesnt work on xubuntu ?
[20:29] <Ov3rf10w> xubuntu have thunar
[20:29] <charlie-tca> Nautilus should work, if you install it.
[20:29] <charlie-tca> Nautilus is part of Gnome, which Xubuntu does not use.
[20:30] <simple_> oh i did it thanks
[20:30] <simple_> it works great :)
[20:30] <charlie-tca> You are welcome
[20:30] <simple_> thnks
[20:30] <simple_> i had some sound from the speakers
[20:30] <simple_> "cat - cut - cat"
[20:31] <simple_> i thinks its power save problem
[20:31] <simple_> i changed powersave from 10 to 0
[20:31] <simple_> and it works now
[20:31] <simple_> hmm
[20:32] <simple_> im a newbie on xubuntu
[20:32] <simple_> what must i install after format
[20:32] <simple_> codecs
[20:32] <simple_> ?
[20:32] <charlie-tca> It just takes time to learn
[20:32] <charlie-tca> codecs if you need them.
[20:32] <simple_> yeap
[20:32] <simple_> i cant play mp3 files
[20:32] <simple_> what can i install
[20:35] <charlie-tca> make sure lame is installed
[20:35] <simple_> lame ?
[20:35] <simple_> all ubuntu commans are working on xubuntu ?
[20:35] <charlie-tca> in a terminal, apt-get install lame
[20:35] <simple_> sudo apt- ...
[20:36] <charlie-tca> oh yeah, sudo...
[20:36] <charlie-tca> yes, all ubuntu commands should work
[20:36] <simple_> yeap lame is installing now
[20:36] <simple_> then ?
[20:37] <charlie-tca> I don't know. I don't use mp3
[20:37] <simple_> :)
[20:37] <simple_> thnks for help
[20:37] <charlie-tca> no problem
[20:37] <charlie-tca> hopefully, they will work after lame installs
[20:37] <simple_> but i like xubi :)
[20:38] <Sysi> install xubunru-restricted-extras
[20:38] <Sysi> *xubuntu
[20:39] <simple_> yeap im installing now
[20:40]  * charlie-tca never thinks of xubuntu-restricted-extras
[20:41]  * Ov3rf10w P53uD0-C0D3 tatatatira xD
[21:47] <jung_> i'm new to xubuntu and i eed help...plz..
[21:47] <charlie-tca> !hi | jung
[21:47] <Sysi> what's the matter?
[21:47] <charlie-tca> Please ask your question, all on one line, and anybody that can will try to help you
[21:48] <jung_> i have problem with cd-rom it won't read on xubuntu
[21:48] <Sysi> music, software, video?
[21:49] <jung_> all fo them
[21:49] <jung_> i mean all of them
[21:49] <jung_> i insert cd and  notthing happened
[21:49] <jung_> it read flash drive and floppy but not cd-rom
[21:50] <simple_> i cant install xmms on xfce
[21:50] <simple_> can u help me
[21:51] <charlie-tca> jung_: for music, put the cd in, go to Applications -> Multimedia -> Exaile
[21:51] <charlie-tca> Then on the left side in exaile, choose audio disk
[21:51] <simple_> i want to install xmms2 on xfce
[21:51] <simple_> i asked it
[21:51] <simple_> not "how can i play sounds"
[21:51] <jung_> what about data file???
[21:51] <charlie-tca> click on the big PLUS sign, and it should add the audio files to be played
[21:52] <charlie-tca> for data, go to /media/cdrom0 and look for them
[21:52] <Sysi> filemanager don't show cd?
[21:52] <charlie-tca> If they are not there, you will need to mount the cd
[21:52] <charlie-tca> not always, Sysi
[21:52] <charlie-tca> for some reason, they don't always mount
[21:53] <jung_> i found infomation for sudo command  and try to mount  and  didn't work also my slave drive is  gone after i ran command
[21:53] <Sysi> charlie-tca: but in current case, question for simple_
[21:53] <charlie-tca> simple_: go into Synaptic Package Manager, search for xmms, and install it there
[21:53] <Sysi> it doesn't exist
[21:53] <simple_> there is not
[21:53] <charlie-tca> what command did you give, jung_
[21:53] <Sysi> audacious replaced it
[21:54] <charlie-tca> If xmms is not there, it is not available any longer. Installing it would be futile
 sudo mount /dev/cd-rom /media/cdrom
[21:55] <charlie-tca> Try sudo mount /dev/cdrom /media/cdrom0
[21:55] <charlie-tca> note the no dashes after /dev
[21:56] <charlie-tca> simple, I would use vlc instead
[21:57] <jung_>  so should type in like this sudo mount /dev cdrom media cdrom
[21:57] <charlie-tca> no, just remove the - in cd-rom that you had
[21:57] <charlie-tca> sudo mount /dev/cdrom /media/cdrom0
[21:57] <jung_>  i don't how to to remove
[21:58] <jung_> i stat using this yesterday
[21:58] <jung_> i was using widnow
[21:58] <jung_> xp
[21:58] <charlie-tca> It's okay, you will do fine
[21:58] <jung_> so everyting is new to me
[21:58] <jung_> i iave 2 cd-rom
[21:58] <jung_> is that matter
[21:59] <charlie-tca> you can use "sudo umount /dev/cd-rom /media/cdrom" without the quotes to fix it
[21:59] <charlie-tca> yes, it matters. one should show up as /media/cdrom0 and the other as /media/cdrom1
[22:00] <charlie-tca> We are mounting the master drive.
[22:00] <jung_> i have to prob;em it said  "/media/cdrom: not mounted"
[22:00] <charlie-tca> which command?
[22:00] <charlie-tca> the umount?
[22:00] <jung_> yup
[22:01] <charlie-tca> okay, now do the other one "sudo mount /dev/cdrom /media/cdrom0
[22:01] <charlie-tca> You do have the data disc in the drive, right?
[22:01] <jung_> yup
[22:03] <jung_> do i hsve to wait  ??
[22:03] <charlie-tca> no, if it is done, try to open /media/cdrom0
[22:04] <charlie-tca> sorry, I am running a backtrace now
[22:04] <jung_> messge said "/dev/sr1: unknown device
[22:04] <jung_> "
[22:05] <jung_> and i won't eject
[22:05] <charlie-tca> type eject in the terminal and hit enter
[22:05] <charlie-tca> but it might be reading the disc, too
[22:06] <charlie-tca> Was that message in terminal?
[22:06] <jung_> it open slave cd-rom
[22:06] <jung_> not master
[22:07] <charlie-tca> do you have /media/cdrom0 and /media/cdrom1 ?
[22:07] <jung_> cdrom0 and 1
[22:07] <jung_> yes
[22:08] <charlie-tca> in the terminal, type "cd /media/cdrom0" and hit enter
[22:08] <charlie-tca> then type "ls" and hit enter
[22:09] <jung_> i did
[22:09] <charlie-tca> anything?
[22:09] <jung_> notthing
[22:10] <jung_> just blinking on cd-rom one that i insert cd
[22:10] <charlie-tca> type "cd /media/cdrom1" and hit enter
[22:10] <charlie-tca> give it a minute
[22:10] <charlie-tca> If the light is blinking, it is trying to read the cd
[22:11] <jung_> still blinking
[22:11] <charlie-tca> it is still trying then
[22:11] <charlie-tca> wait for the light to quit
[22:12] <jung_> this happened yesterday  i had to reboot  so i can take cd out
[22:12] <charlie-tca> type cd /media and hit enter
[22:12] <jung_> hold on it eject
[22:12] <Ov3rf10w> jung_ you cant't eject cd rom?
[22:12] <charlie-tca> it can't read the cd then
[22:13] <jung_> it just eject t self
[22:13] <charlie-tca> because we told it too way back when you typed 'eject'
[22:13] <jung_> maybe my  master cd-rom is bad
[22:13] <charlie-tca> But it can not read the disc, for some reason
[22:13] <charlie-tca> put it in the other drive, let's find out
[22:14] <jung_> i just insert cd
[22:14] <charlie-tca> okay, is the light blinking?
[22:15] <jung_> light
[22:15] <jung_> and eject again
[22:15] <jung_> it self
[22:15] <charlie-tca> What kind of data cd is that?
[22:16] <jung_> gq
[22:16] <jung_> i got this cd from fry's
[22:16] <jung_> u want me to try differnt cd
[22:16] <charlie-tca> you have recorded it or they did?
[22:23] <jji> i try other disk
[22:23] <jji> it show blank
[22:24] <charlie-tca> it shows the disc is blank?
[22:24] <charlie-tca> What data is this? Is it windows data on the disc?
[22:28] <jji> it was avi file
[22:29] <charlie-tca> and it shows blank on both drives?
[22:29] <jji> yes
[22:30] <charlie-tca> Do you have a Xubuntu cd?
[22:30] <Ov3rf10w> jji what version of xubuntu you have?
[22:31] <charlie-tca> your turn, Ov3rf10w. Maybe a xubuntu cd will show up.
[22:31] <Ov3rf10w> :D
[22:31] <jji> mount: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/sr1,
[22:31] <jji>        missing codepage or helper program, or other error
[22:31] <jji>        In some cases useful info is found in syslog - try
[22:31] <jji>        dmesg | tail  or so
[22:31] <Ov3rf10w> if use karmic i'm out xD
[22:31] <jji> it's 9.10
[22:31] <Ov3rf10w> bump
[22:31] <charlie-tca> should be the same
[22:32] <Ov3rf10w> i hate 9.10
[22:32] <Sysi> i mostly works on my laptop
[22:32] <Sysi> *it
[22:32] <charlie-tca> Wonder what the file system is?
[22:33] <Carnophage> is ureadahead installed by default in xubuntu 9.10?
[22:33] <charlie-tca> let me look
[22:34] <charlie-tca> I think so
[22:35] <Sysi> !ureadahead
[22:35] <Sysi> bot don't know
[22:36] <charlie-tca> I show it installed from main, it should be default installed
[22:36] <jji> sman
[22:36] <jji> /dev/sr0': No medium found
[22:36] <Carnophage> charlie-tca: thx, just added it to my xubuntu, now it's time to see if it changes anything ;-)
[22:37] <jji> when i tried to mount with (by-path)
[22:37] <charlie-tca> jji: I don't know  why it won't read the discs. /dev/sr0 is not able to read the discs at all
[22:37] <jji> ls /dev
[22:37] <charlie-tca> which drive was that?
[22:37] <charlie-tca> sr0 won't do a direct read.
[22:38] <charlie-tca> Try cdrom or dvd in /dev
[22:40] <Ov3rf10w> i can't figureout what he do with cdrom xD
[22:41] <Ov3rf10w> figure out*
[22:41] <charlie-tca> He has two drives, and they are not reading the avi files on the disc
[22:41] <Ov3rf10w> ok
[22:42] <Carnophage> nice, 20 sec quicker, I wonder why ureadahead wasn't installed while upgrading to 9.10
[22:42] <charlie-tca> but he seems to be trying to read them directly in /dev, and I think that is causing issues
[22:42] <Ov3rf10w> maybe have a bad cd xD
[22:43] <charlie-tca> Carnophage: don't know  why, let me look in a clean install
[22:43] <charlie-tca> mine is a little past that point
[22:44] <Carnophage> charlie-tca: my xubuntu is upgraded since 7.10, and 9.10 was the first one not to install all the software I don't use (default image viewer etc)
[22:44] <jji> solved it
[22:45] <jji> my friend helped me
[22:45] <charlie-tca> did you upgrade after the final came out?
[22:45] <charlie-tca> jji: what was it?
[22:45] <jji> had to guess hte right device in /dev
[22:45] <charlie-tca> okay
[22:45] <jji> cdrom was sr0
[22:45] <jji> partitions were sda1, sda5
[22:45] <jji> thx
[22:45] <charlie-tca> That's different.
[22:47] <charlie-tca> Carnophage: I do show ureadahead installed by default in 9.10
[23:15] <jroc> hey guys
[23:59] <Sysi> np: Aerosmith - Beyond Beautiful
[23:59] <Sysi> olipa hyvä kaakau


[17:41] <PeGaSuS> what am I doing wrong here: https://pastebin.pixelizez.com/view/1a1359dd
[17:55] <santi> PeGaSuS: I believe it should be right after the wifis
[17:55] <santi> sorry, after the wifi interface
[17:56] <santi> PeGaSuS: you're adding it inside the `access-points` configuration.
[17:56] <PeGaSuS> santi: oh. let me test it quickly.
[17:57] <santi> Probably the access point object does not expect a "dhcp4" key, so it throws an error.
[17:57] <PeGaSuS> oh, right. I see I can't set `addresses` inside each access point either?
[18:00] <santi> PeGaSuS: probably, I guess it is a property of the interface.
[18:01] <santi> If you type `man netplan` and search for access-points, it says:
[18:01] <santi> This provides pre-configured connections to NetworkManager.  Note that users can of course  select  other
[18:01] <santi>               access points/SSIDs.  The keys of the mapping are the SSIDs, and the values are mappings with the follow‐
[18:01] <santi>               ing supported propertiesYyes
[18:01] <santi> y
[18:02] <santi> So you have, in json `{SSIDNAME:{key:val1,key2:val2...}}` and neither addresses nor dhcp4 are properties of that object
[18:02] <santi> PeGaSuS:
[18:05] <santi> Does it make sense PeGaSuS ?
[18:06] <PeGaSuS> kind of, yes
[18:13] <PeGaSuS> thanks!
[18:14] <santi> you're welcome, ask any question =) PeGaSuS


[22:28] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::OMG!Ubuntu:: Black Box (GTK4 Terminal App) Adds Transparency, Sixel Support @ https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2023/01/black-box-gtk4-terminal-app-adds-transparency-experimental-sixel-support (by Joey Sneddon)
[22:28] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::OMG!Ubuntu:: ‘Burn My Windows’ & ‘Desktop Clock’ GNOME Extensions Updated @ https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2023/01/updated-burn-my-windows-desktop-clock-gnome-extension-updates (by Joey Sneddon)
[22:32] <Bashing-om> UWN: Issue770 up for review and final edits: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue770 :D


[00:55] <Guest59132> hgghg-
[00:56] <Guest59132> INVITE
[03:24] <odinpe> hi people
[12:32] <NoteOn> jp?
[12:33] <cfhowlett> !jp
[12:33] <NoteOn> ic
[12:55] <Danne261> hi
[12:56] <Danne261> i need some help too get in externt soundcard in ubuntustudio
[14:39] <studio-user264> Hi
[14:39] <studio-user264> anobody here???
[14:40] <studio-user264> i assume not....
[14:40] <studio-user264> bye
[22:40] <EriC^^> hi, i don't have any sound in lmms, any idea?


[00:50] <thumper-lunch> wallyworld: can't use UserHomeDir because I don't have an 'ubuntu' user
[00:50]  * thumper forgot to reset nick
[00:51]  * thumper looks at how to mock differently
[00:51] <wallyworld> you create a fake home dir, add the dir for unbuntu
[00:52] <wallyworld> oh ok
[00:52] <wallyworld> UserHomeDir won't work
[00:52] <thumper> right
[00:52] <thumper> nm, I'll think of something
[00:53] <wallyworld> but NormaliseFile or something like that will
[00:53] <wallyworld> i can't recall exactly
[00:53] <thumper> nah
[00:53] <thumper> normalise calls UserHomeDir
[00:54] <thumper> wallyworld: may mock that out with an interface :-)
[00:54] <thumper> the package call
[00:54] <wallyworld> whatever works :-)
[00:55] <wallyworld> thumper: why not replace /home/ubuntu with NormaliseFile("~/ubuntu")
[00:55] <wallyworld> or something like that
[00:55] <thumper> because that still looks for the ubuntu user
[00:56] <wallyworld> no, the ~ will be replaced
[00:56] <thumper> oh, you mean ~/../ubuntu
[00:56] <wallyworld> by the fake home
[00:56] <thumper> because that's awful
[00:56] <wallyworld> why?
[00:56] <thumper> it is also wrong
[00:56] <thumper> we need it to be /home/ubuntu
[00:56] <thumper> ~/ubuntu -> /root/ubuntu
[00:56] <thumper> by the agent
[00:56] <wallyworld> oh agent runs as different user
[00:57] <thumper> yeah
[00:57] <thumper> if it was the ubuntu user
[00:57] <thumper> it would still be /home/ubuntu/ubuntu
[00:57] <thumper> which is also wrong
[00:57] <thumper> I think you mean ~
[00:57] <wallyworld> sorry, i meant ~unbuntu
[00:57] <thumper> but still wrong
[00:57] <thumper> ~ubuntu looks for the ubuntu user
[00:57] <thumper> I'm going to mock out that looking bit
[00:57] <wallyworld> so why hard code /home/ubuntu - have a helper function and override in tests
[00:58] <thumper> well, we have to mock out one of two things
[00:58] <thumper> either the dir to use
[00:58] <wallyworld> extend the ~ idea which we already handle
[00:58] <thumper> of the thing that maps the dir
[00:58] <wallyworld> the dir to use i reckon is better
[00:58] <thumper> I was going to do the latter
[00:59] <thumper> I have no strong preference
[00:59] <wallyworld> cause we already have the concept of FakeHome, seems like a more natural fit to extend that
[00:59] <wallyworld> to allow for a fake /home
[00:59] <thumper> this will have nothing to do with the home
[00:59] <wallyworld> i mean /home
[01:00] <thumper> it'll just be a dir
[01:00] <wallyworld> yes
[01:00] <thumper> nah, that is getting too complicated
[01:00]  * thumper sticks with easy
[01:00] <wallyworld> i just dislike anything that can touch your real /home
[01:00] <wallyworld> i think that's bad test imppementation
[01:01] <wallyworld> what happens if a test is buggy and it deletes stuff
[01:01] <thumper> we can continue this in the hangout :)
[01:01] <wallyworld> think of stubbing out /home as like stubbing out the charm store url
[01:51] <wallyworld> thumper: pull your finger out cause i need the new agent config stuff on context
[01:51]  * wallyworld taps fingers impatiently
[01:52] <thumper> yeah yeah
[03:37] <_thumper_> wallyworld__: test created for the upgrade
[03:38] <wallyworld__> \o/
[03:38] <_thumper_> proposal being updated now
[03:38]  * _thumper_ has to go make dinner
[03:39] <wallyworld__> ok ta
[03:51] <axw> gtg out for a while, seeing my brother off at the airport
[04:02] <bradm> anyone got any suggestions on how to debug why a juju 1.17.2 environment will bootstrap, but not deploy an instance?
[04:03] <bradm> as in, I'm trying to juju deploy a local charm and its just sitting there
[04:03] <bradm> https://pastebin.canonical.com/104754/ <- been sitting there for a good minute or more
[04:04] <thumper> axw: ack
[04:05] <thumper> bradm: it could be downloading the lxc template
[04:05] <bradm> thumper: this is on a juju deployed openstack using maas
[04:06] <thumper> oh..
[04:06] <thumper> maybe not then...
[04:06] <bradm> thumper: as in, on openstack deployed using juju on top of maas
[04:06] <thumper> sorry, not sure
[04:06] <bradm> I just can't see anything going on
[04:07] <bradm> thumper-afk: no worries
[04:44] <bradm> nobody else has any suggestions for debugging why juju deploy is hanging?
[04:49] <bradm> wallyworld__: ^^ ? :)
[04:50] <wallyworld__> um
[04:50] <wallyworld__> bradm: i've not deployed any local charms before, all i can think of is perhaps an issue uploading the charm to cloud storage
[04:51] <bradm> best I can tell it doesn't matter where the charm comes from, it just hangs
[04:52] <wallyworld__> it still has to copy the charm to cloud storage though
[04:53] <bradm> hmm, I guess
[04:53] <wallyworld__> maybe you can ssh into the machine and see if the charm has been unpacked
[04:53] <bradm> it hasn't spawned a 2nd machine yet, I only have the bootstrap node up
[04:54] <wallyworld__> what does juju debug-log say?
[05:01] <bradm> oddly, not a real lot
[05:01] <bradm> let me try all this again
[05:05] <bradm> yeah, this is weird, its like too much network traffic and it drops
[05:06] <bradm> doesn't seem like a juju thing if thats the case
[07:50] <axw> wallyworld__: terse review, squashed my finger in the car door :\
[09:27] <rogpeppe2> wallyworld: you just got a review of https://codereview.appspot.com/61510049/
[10:05] <dimitern> wallyworld, meeting?
[10:05] <dimitern> mgz, ^^
[10:06] <mgz> dimitern: ta
[13:25] <dimitern> mgz, if you can take some time to look, i've updated the networking document to include a preliminary list of needed changes to goose
[13:46] <TheMue> dimitern: one short question. how do configuration values come into the environ config?
[13:47] <dimitern> TheMue, what do you mean?
[13:47] <dimitern> TheMue, from env.yaml ?
[13:47] <dimitern> TheMue, or from CLI juju set/etc. ?
[13:48] <TheMue> dimitern: when a system is bootstraped the environment has a config (EnvironConfig() *config.Config)
[13:48] <TheMue> dimitern: somehow the initial values have to be written into it
[13:49] <dimitern> TheMue, yes, so the env.yaml settings + some other things get validated and created at prepare time, then stored in the .jenv file
[13:49] <TheMue> dimitern: and when does this jenv file gets into the database?
[13:50] <dimitern> TheMue, and the actual *config.Config gets stored in mongo in the settings collection
[13:50] <mgz> dimitern: sure, I'll have a look
[13:50] <dimitern> mgz, ta
[13:51] <TheMue> dimitern: hmm, still have to find the flow where this all happens. reason is that I need to write another value into this config
[13:51] <dimitern> TheMue, take a look what happens in environs.Prepare
[13:52] <dimitern> TheMue, ah, for that you just need to add it in environs/config's schema
[13:54] <TheMue> dimitern: yip, detected that already, only the writing is missing. but the prepare hint is good. thx.
[13:54] <dimitern> TheMue, and add some get methods, etc. look a recent CL of mine that does that: https://codereview.appspot.com/58170045/
[13:55] <TheMue> dimitern: ah, nice, having somebody doing the same is very helpful
[13:57] <dimitern> TheMue, np :)
[14:33] <sinzui> abentley, jcsackett thedac, I am double booked through the morning
[14:33]  * sinzui has announcements for the standup
[14:33] <sinzui> too
[14:33] <abentley> sinzui: I see.  Should we postpone the standup or go on without you?
[14:34] <sinzui> abentley, might as well
[14:45] <abentley> sinzui: what are those announcements?
[14:45] <abentley> sinzui: I guess just email them to us.
[14:46] <sinzui> abentley, yeah, that will be best
[14:46] <rogpeppe2> fwereade, natefinch, wallyworld, dimitern, thumper: updated errgo names as discussed: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6925794/
[14:47] <dimitern> rogpeppe2, looking
[14:47] <rogpeppe2> natefinch: how does that feel to you?
[14:47] <rogpeppe> dimitern: we're going with Cause instead of Diagnosis, and Underlying instead of Cause.
[14:48] <rogpeppe> dimitern: and Mask instead of Wrap
[14:48] <rogpeppe> dimitern: and Notef instead of Wrapf
[14:48] <dimitern> rogpeppe, i'm +1 on all but last two - i liked wrap, what's wrong with it?
[14:49] <rogpeppe> dimitern: i liked it too, but this is the way we decided to paint the shed :-)
[14:50] <dimitern> rogpeppe, and how's mask/note better?
[14:50] <rogpeppe> dimitern: the thought is that it's a good idea to make it clear that we're masking the underlying cause
[14:50] <natefinch> rogpeppe: can you drop location from the public API?  It's not really necessary
[14:51] <rogpeppe> natefinch: you mean, make it a private field in Err?
[14:51] <rogpeppe> dimitern: and everyone seemed to like Note, so we went with that
[14:52] <rogpeppe> dimitern: (better than Annotate anyway, i think)
[14:52] <dimitern> rogpeppe, hmm..
[14:52] <natefinch> rogpeppe: Yeah, so the way I did it was instead of Locationer I had Detailed (Detailer if you must)  and that way you don't dictate a specific set of info from a sub-error, you just call Details() on the sub error and it formats how it wishes
[14:53] <dimitern> well, meh, it's just an api and it just needs getting used to
[14:53] <rogpeppe> dimitern: yeah, that's my thought
[14:53] <rogpeppe> dimitern: as long as the semantics are right, i'll get used to most names
[14:53] <natefinch> rogpeppe: I'm just trying to narrow the public API so there's less to grok.  There's a ton of stuff to ingest in your public API
[14:54] <dimitern> rogpeppe, yep
[14:55] <rogpeppe> natefinch: yeah, the public interface that we'd like people to see most of the time looks like this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6925836/
[14:58] <rogpeppe> natefinch: it is useful to have each error responsible only for returning data and not for actually formatting things
[14:59] <rogpeppe> natefinch: it means that we can potentially provide different views on the same data
[14:59] <rogpeppe> natefinch: for example, a web interface might implement an alternative version of Details that formats the errors as html with source code links.
[15:00] <natefinch> rogpeppe: that's true
[15:01] <rogpeppe> natefinch: it is arguable, i suppose, whether Locationer, Wrapper and Causer should all be separate interfaces, but i think it could make sense to provide some and not others.
[15:01] <natefinch> rogpeppe: yeah I think that's fine.  small interfaces are nice.
[15:02] <rogpeppe> natefinch: Details should document how the interfaces are used though.
[15:02] <natefinch> rogpeppe: it's honestly the func(error)bool stuff that really complicates the API.... which is unfortunate given that they're likely not to be used except in limited cases
[15:02] <natefinch> rogpeppe: yep
[15:03] <rogpeppe> natefinch: they're used a fair amount actually (about 10% of the time)
[15:03] <natefinch> rogpeppe: what's the use for Any?  Isn't that the same as note?
[15:04] <rogpeppe> natefinch: no, Note masks the cause
[15:04] <rogpeppe> natefinch: Any allows any cause through
[15:04] <natefinch> rogpeppe: cause is now what you used to call diagnosis, right?
[15:05] <rogpeppe> natefinch: yes
[15:05] <rogpeppe> natefinch: Notef is basically equivalent to fmt.Errorf except that it adds source line info
[15:06] <natefinch> rogpeppe: how do you note and let the error type pass through?  Or is that only doable through mask(err, Any)?
[15:07] <rogpeppe> natefinch: you can use NoteMask
[15:07] <rogpeppe> natefinch: (which may well be better named MaskNote; i can't quite decide)
[15:08] <rogpeppe> natefinch: NoteMask is actually the underlying wrap primitive, used by all the other wrapping functions except WithCausef
[15:09] <natefinch> rogpeppe: I wish there was a function that didn't require the function argument that just always let the underlying error become the cause
[15:09] <rogpeppe> natefinch: var mask = errors.MaskFunc(errors.Any)
[15:10] <rogpeppe> natefinch: but, as i keep on asserting, that case is actually pretty rare
[15:10] <natefinch> rogpeppe: yeah, should be
[15:11] <rogpeppe> natefinch: because returned errors are part of *your* contract, and you should be responsible for knowing what they are
[15:11] <natefinch> rogpeppe: right
[15:12] <natefinch> rogpeppe: So mask(err) is effectively the same as just notef(err, "")
[15:13] <rogpeppe> natefinch: yes
[15:13] <rogpeppe> natefinch: those two are identical
[15:21] <abentley> rogpeppe: The current unit test against amd-64-precise got some panics: http://<IP_ADDRESS>:8080/job/run-unit-tests-amd64-precise/66/console
[15:22] <rogpeppe> abentley: looking
[15:23] <rogpeppe> abentley: hmm, i haven't seen this before
[15:23] <rogpeppe> ... Panic: unauthorized db:presence ns:presence.presence.beings lock type:0 client:<IP_ADDRESS> (PC=0x414311)
[15:23] <abentley> rogpeppe: Just telling you because you said you were interested in panics.
[15:23] <abentley> rogpeppe: previous run did not panic this way (but also failed)
[15:24] <rogpeppe> abentley: yes, thanks - that's very interesting to see
[15:26] <rogpeppe> looks like the presence watcher panicked at some point, probably because of the permission changes going on the the db underneath
[15:28] <rogpeppe> natefinch: one potential way of simplifying things a little is to accept only a single function argument rather than a slice.
[15:28] <rogpeppe> natefinch: but then you'd always have to pass it, so the most common case becomes harder.
[15:28] <rogpeppe> natefinch: (the most common case being "return mask(err)" of course)
[15:29] <natefinch> rogpeppe: yeah.,.. I don't think that's a big deal, I think it's the fact that Note sounds like it doesn't mask the error, because it's obviously named differently than Mask...
[15:30] <rogpeppe> natefinch: yeah, i quite liked Wrap and Wrapf. but i can accept that and move on, i think.
[15:30] <natefinch> rogpeppe: Mask and Maskf?
[15:31] <rogpeppe> natefinch: people said they particularly liked "Note". so Note we have.
[15:31] <rogpeppe> natefinch: (as agreed)
[15:31] <sinzui> fwereade, I think we can denominate https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1255242 . This change in behaviour is a problem, I am not convinced juju is a fault
[15:31] <_mup_> Bug #1255242: HP cloud requires 4G to do what AWS does in 2G mem <ci> <hp-cloud> <intermittent-failure> <regression> <upgrade-juju> <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1255242>
[15:34] <natefinch> rogpeppe:  I guess if you start from the assumption that everything gets masked, except for things that pass a mask function, or when using WithCausef, that makes it easier to understand,
[15:34] <rogpeppe> natefinch: yeah
[15:36] <fwereade> sinzui, +1, although it would be nice if we can figure out what's at fault... something the image does differently?
[15:36] <natefinch> rogpeppe: ok, enough bikeshedding for me.  I'm sure we'll get used to it, and if not, we can always find and replace the names if we think of something better.
[15:37] <sinzui> fwereade, The image is my own suspicion. One day Hp will use our images
[15:37] <rogpeppe> natefinch: thanks
[15:42] <rogpeppe> ha, 9889 lines of diffs in 5 seconds. gofmt -r FTW! http://paste.ubuntu.com/6926047/
[15:43] <natefinch> rogpeppe: nice
[15:43] <natefinch> rogpeppe: gofmt is pretty awesome
[15:43] <rogpeppe> natefinch: it would be nice to be able to do statements and declarations as well as expressions, but yeah, it's great
[15:44] <natefinch> rogpeppe: yeah, I wish it could do more, too.  But for what it can do it's great
[15:47] <sinzui> fwereade, mgz: are these bugs backportable? Can I tartget them to 1.16.7? https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1241674 and https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju/+bug/1188126
[15:47] <_mup_> Bug #1241674: juju-core broken with OpenStack Havana for tenants with multiple networks <cts-cloud-review> <openstack-provider> <juju-core:Fix Released by gz> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1241674>
[15:47] <_mup_> Bug #1188126: Juju unable to interact consistently with an openstack deployment where tenant has multiple networks configured <canonistack> <cts-cloud-review> <openstack-provider> <serverstack> <pyjuju:Triaged> <juju-core:Triaged by gz> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1188126>
[15:48] <fwereade> sinzui, mgz is fuguring out if we should be hotfixing them for cts instead
[15:48] <fwereade> sinzui, they involve a config change
[15:48] <fwereade> sinzui, but we could handwave them to be "this config setting doesn't work properly in old 1.16s" I suppose
[15:49] <fwereade> sinzui, so it's just a bugfix ;p
[15:51] <mgz> sinzui: it's ugly, but possible
[15:52] <sinzui> mgz, I am happy to not release 1.16.7
[15:52] <mgz> I would much prefer we get an earlier 1.18
[17:08] <rogpeppe> natefinch: any chance you're going to merge that voyeur branch some time?
[17:19] <natefinch> rogpeppe: oh crap, sorry, yeah
[17:30] <natefinch> rogpeppe: I added the tests you suggested, not sure if there's anything else that needed to be done: https://codereview.appspot.com/57700044
[17:31] <rogpeppe> natefinch: i think it's good as is. one more test though: we never test what happens when NewValue is called with a non-nil arg
[17:31] <rogpeppe> natefinch: with that in, LGTM
[17:32] <natefinch> rogpeppe: cool
[17:32] <natefinch> rogpeppe: will do that right now
[17:32] <rogpeppe> natefinch: when you've submitted it, i'll be adding a patch that makes the zero Value ok to use, which i found useful elsewhere.
[17:33] <natefinch> rogpeppe: nice
[17:37] <natefinch> rogpeppe: actually there is a test for a non-nil arg, TestValueInitial, it's near the top of the file
[17:37] <rogpeppe> natefinch: oh yes, i missed it
[17:37] <rogpeppe> natefinch: LGTM then
[17:38] <natefinch> rogpeppe: oh ok, I missed your new lgtm, thanks
[17:39] <natefinch> rogpeppe: it's merging (in theory)
[17:39] <rogpeppe> natefinch: cool
[18:18] <TheMue> awsome, my new way of debug-log works even with the local provider via api w/o passing infos during the call
[18:19] <natefinch> rogpeppe, mgz, fwereade: anyone know what the minimum version of mongo is that we support?
[18:19] <TheMue> rogpeppe: have to do a bit cleanup, but I think you'll like it
[18:19] <rogpeppe> TheMue: cool
[18:19] <rogpeppe> natefinch: no i don't, sorry
[18:19] <rogpeppe> TheMue: how did you end up doing it?
[18:20] <TheMue> rogpeppe: I extended the environ config. default log location in there is the standard one, but the local provider sets the local one
[18:21] <TheMue> rogpeppe: then I can do logLocation = state.EnvironConfig().LogLocation() (a bit more due to returned error of ErrorConfig)
[18:22] <rogpeppe> TheMue: that seems like a reasonable solution, thanks
[18:22] <TheMue> rogpeppe: the local provider already sets the location as /var/log/juju-<user>-<envname>/all-machines.log. but it forgets the value after creating the dirs
[18:23] <rogpeppe> TheMue: you'll need to make sure that it's not a value that the user can set with set-environment
[18:23] <TheMue> rogpeppe: yeah, it definitely feels better. also the UI needs only to pass lines and filter during the call. how shall the UI installed in a container know about the local user?
[18:24] <rogpeppe> TheMue: yeah, it was definitely wrong to pass the log location as an arg to the API call
[18:24] <TheMue> rogpeppe: full agree now
[18:25] <rogpeppe> TheMue: putting the location in the env config feels a *little* bit like a hack, but i can't currently think of a better idea
[18:25] <TheMue> rogpeppe: the ensuring of not overwriting it is done where?
[18:25] <rogpeppe> TheMue: in EnvironProvider.ValidateConfig i think
[18:26] <rogpeppe> TheMue: just Valid actually
[18:26] <TheMue> rogpeppe: not in config.go immutableAttributes?
[18:26] <rogpeppe> TheMue: ah, perhaps there. let me check.
[18:27] <rogpeppe> TheMue: yes, that'll be the place
[18:28] <TheMue> rogpeppe: fine, then I've got it right
[18:43] <rogpeppe> mgz: ping
[18:43] <rogpeppe> mgz: scratch that, i don't expect you to be around at this time of the evening :-)
[18:44] <rogpeppe> a bzr question for anyone: i've got a load of commits with a merge from trunk in the middle them. what's the best way to undo the merge and pretend i never did it?
[18:45] <rogpeppe> s/them/of them/
[18:53] <natefinch> rogpeppe: make a new branch and cherry pick everything but that branch?  I don't know if there's a better way.  I'm not a bzr expert
[18:53] <natefinch> s/branch/merge/
[18:53] <rogpeppe> natefinch: yeah, i've done that, but it's not ideal
[18:54] <rogpeppe> natefinch: i always feel that whenever i use patch(1) i've failed
[18:58] <natefinch> rogpeppe: wow, I don't think I ever tried bzr help commands before... that is a friggin' huge UI
[18:58] <rogpeppe> natefinch: it's minute compared to git...
[18:58] <rogpeppe> natefinch: vcs's are like OS's before unix came along
[18:59] <natefinch> rogpeppe: yeah, git looks even bigger.  Man.  I sorta miss SVN.
[19:08] <hatch> whaaaaa??
[19:08]  * hatch pinches
[19:09] <hatch> natefinch you can probably rebase the merge out
[19:09] <hatch> ohh bzr.....yeah no idea
[19:09] <hatch> sorry :)
[19:16] <natefinch> hatch: heh, yeah, same here :)
[20:08] <thumper> natefinch: ping
[20:09] <natefinch> thumper: howdy
[20:37]  * thumper reboots