[10:30] <danilos> henninge, a lovely branch for you in the queue
[10:30]  * henninge already loves it ...
[10:30] <danilos> henninge, still waiting for MP to hit LP though
[10:35] <danilos> henninge, https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~danilo/launchpad/bug-408718/+merge/11682
[10:36] <danilos> henninge, btw, I couldn't see what you said with /me, it seems it's a bug in xchat
[10:36] <henninge> not important
[10:36] <henninge> danilos: can you never see it? like here:
[10:36]  * henninge thinks maybe its danilo and not xchat thats broken ...
[10:37] <danilos> henninge, exactly right there
[10:37] <adeuring> henninge: could you please review this mp: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~adeuring/launchpad/hwdb-submissions-with-udev-data/+merge/11683 ?
[10:37] <henninge> danilos: so is it a bug in my xchat or yours.
[10:37] <henninge> adeuring: sure, put it in the queue, please.
[10:38] <danilos> henninge, mine, it's probably a translations bug
[10:38] <adeuring> henninge: thanks!
[10:38] <henninge> I see
[10:38] <danilos> henninge, I've seen it before, a bad translation on messages with no c-format flag (or someone just cuts off %s)
[10:38] <henninge> mp page has a double title ...
[10:41] <danilos> henninge, heh, no wonder it's a translations bug, just look at msgids: https://pastebin.canonical.com/22063/
[10:42] <henninge> what in the world ...
[10:44]  * danilos tests the non working version
[10:45] <danilo_> ok, it doesn't
[10:46] <henninge_> danilo_: doesn't what?
[10:46] <danilo_> henninge: don't worry, I am testing the bug in xchat-gnome; I'll move that to some other place, sorry :)
[10:50] <allenap> intellectronica: Fancy a pretty trivial ui conversion review? https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~allenap/launchpad/ui-convert-bugtarget-x-3.0-bug-427755/+merge/11685
[10:50] <intellectronica> allenap: sure
[10:51] <intellectronica> allenap: which pages should i look at?
[10:51] <allenap> intellectronica: Doh, I forgot to put that in. Sorry. I'll add a comment and ping you back.
[11:00] <henninge_> danilo_: I  do not see where the query is executed a second time after being aborted. Why return an empty result set?
[11:00] <danilos> henninge: I don't want to execute it a second time
[11:00] <danilos> henninge: as the cover letter explains, this is an optimization we can do without
[11:01] <danilos> henninge: if it fails, just do not do super-fast-imports but process that one pofile slowly
[11:01] <danilos> henninge: which brings up a good point: I should reset the statement_timeout to default after the query :)
[11:07] <henninge> danilos: I must be missing some understanding of how superfast imports work ...
[11:07] <danilos> henninge, you might, but it's quite simple
[11:08] <danilos> henninge, basically, what they do is: fetch the entire pofile into ExistingPOFileInDatabase... if an identical message is already imported, don't run updateTranslation on it, and just skip over it
[11:09] <danilos> henninge, by disabling them in this way, it will be much slower when it happens, because updateTranslation will be called on each of the messages; however, updateTranslation is able to cope with identical messages anyway, so no harm done
[11:09] <danilos> henninge, and, if this keeps happening once a month on every file, no big deal either
[11:10] <henninge> danilos: so the rows fetched by _fetchDBRows are used for the check of what's already there
[11:10] <danilos> henninge, if we have time, we can log the query plan later this week (so stub has something to look at when it happens again)
[11:10] <danilos> henninge, exactly
[11:10] <allenap> intellectronica: I've added a comment. In most cases there's not a lot to see, except to see that it's sane.
[11:10] <henninge> danilos: ok, got it.
[11:11] <danilos> henninge, in essence, this is avoiding what is most likely a PG bug (the query that caused DB disk space to be eated returned ~1500 rows)
[11:12] <danilos> s/eated/eaten
[11:12] <intellectronica> allenap: sure, i just want to load the page, really, since we've seen in previous conversions that stuff got broken which wasn't covered by tests
[11:12] <intellectronica> allenap: thanks for adding the info
[11:20] <henninge> danilos: review sent.
[11:22] <henninge> danilos: forgot to sign it ...
[11:26] <danilos> henninge, about EmptyResultSet, note that this is SelectResults (from SQLObject emulation layer), so I went with the simplest thing possible (I don't know if there's EmptySelectResults emulation in Storm)
[11:27] <danilos> henninge, also, since this will set the statement_timeout to 5 minutes only for this run of the script (which should not be longer than 10 minutes), I won't touch that in order to keep the patch as simple as possible
[11:27] <henninge> danilos: I have used it lately, I think ...
[11:27] <danilos> henninge, with SQLObject code?
[11:27] <henninge> not sure ...
[11:27] <danilos> henninge, i.e. are you certain it has fetchall()?
[11:28] <henninge> danilos: no, I am not.
[11:28] <danilos> henninge, so, http://paste.ubuntu.com/270800/
[11:29] <henninge> danilos: I see. Too bad.
[11:29] <henninge> danilos: leave it as it is, then.
[11:30] <danilos> henninge, well, the alternative is to port the query to Storm, but I ain't doing that to re-enable poimport :)
[11:30] <henninge> no!
[11:30] <henninge> just get that done quickly ... ;)
[11:30] <beuno> intellectronica, care to take an easy-peasy review from me?
[11:31] <intellectronica> beuno: sure, let me just finish allenap's first
[11:31] <beuno> sure
[11:31] <beuno> intellectronica, https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~beuno/launchpad/margin-tweaks/+merge/11689
[11:50] <jtv> beuno, are you back already?  Hope you enjoyed it!  Just ran into your colon-lleno-de-galletitas translation while showing LP to a friend.
[11:51] <jtv> henninge, intellectronica: can I chuck a tiny little branch onto your queue?
[11:51] <beuno> jtv, I am, although I will be off again wed-fri  :)
[11:51] <jtv> beuno: good for you!
[11:52]  * jtv prepares to see "ui designer did not run from wed to sun" emails on the list
[11:52] <intellectronica> jtv: sure, add yourself to the queue. i'm just finishing allenap's and then there's a patchli from beuno and by then i'm sure one of us can pick up yours
[11:53] <jtv> intellectronica: thanks... patchli?  I like that...  been to Switzerland recently?
[11:54] <intellectronica> jtv: no, it's been too long. i miss the cheese
[11:54] <jtv> intellectronica: of the country's 3 main exports—clocks, cheese & banking—this is the only one with holes.
[11:55] <intellectronica> huh :)
[11:56] <intellectronica> allenap: r=me ui=me. let's take care of those two XXXs and please, give me back that sane human-readable formatting
[11:57] <allenap> intellectronica: Thanks :)
[11:59] <intellectronica> beuno: r=me
[12:00] <intellectronica> jtv: 429272 ?
[12:00] <beuno> intellectronica, thanks. Do you know how sending through EC2 works now that it's part of the tree?
[12:01] <intellectronica> beuno: i didn't even know it's part of the tree. i use the same command i've always been using
[12:01] <jtv> intellectronica: yup
[12:01] <beuno> will do the same then
[12:01] <jtv> wooowww... a cloud just started falling down here
[12:02] <jtv> diagonally
[12:02] <intellectronica> jtv: can you give me some sample URLs to look at?
[12:03] <jtv> intellectronica: whoops yes, of course.  Try 1) https://translations.launchpad.{dev,net}/+imports
[12:03] <jtv> 2) /~intellectronica/+imports
[12:03] <jtv> 3) uh...
[12:04] <jtv> https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/colon-full-of-cookie/trunk/+pots/colon-full-of-cookie/de/+filter?person=barry
[12:04] <jtv> vs local example:
[12:04] <jtv> https://translations.launchpad.dev/alsa-utils/trunk/+pots/alsa-utils/es/+filter?person=carlos
[12:07] <danilos> intellectronica, thanks for skipping on my review request :(
[12:08] <intellectronica> omg, i never saw this project before, bizarre
[12:08] <intellectronica> danilos: you requested a review from me?
[12:08] <danilos> intellectronica, not from you, I've put it in the queue
[12:09] <danilos> intellectronica, for either of the two OCRs to pick it up (if it was only one person, I'd probably ping you, but with two?)
[12:09] <intellectronica> danilos: sorry, allenap, beuno and jtv personally asked me for a review and i took on their reviews in the order i promised them
[12:10] <intellectronica> danilos: in the future i recommend pinging as many people as you can. try to sound desperate and blonde. it helps
[12:10] <danilos> intellectronica, ok, I'll make a note to self to be much more "aggressive" in the future
[12:10] <intellectronica> but i'll also follow the queue more closely
[12:10] <danilos> intellectronica, thank you
[12:10] <henninge> adeuring: do you care to quickly explain to me where the files in your branch are used? I have no clue about what hwdb about.
[12:10] <henninge> I may have a guess, but ...
[12:11] <adeuring> henninge: the schema is used in l/c/l/scripts/hwdbsubmissions.py
[12:12] <henninge> adeuring: what does it do?
[12:12] <adeuring> henninge: it is used to ensure that data submitted by the HWDB client has "sane" data
[12:13] <adeuring> henninge: so that the processing script can make some aussptions that some data exists
[12:13] <henninge> adeuring: got your headset ready?
[12:13] <henninge> ;-)
[12:13] <adeuring> henninge: yes
[12:14] <intellectronica> jtv: r=me ui=me good stuff
[12:14] <jtv> intellectronica: thx
[12:15] <intellectronica> jtv: i wonder how we can discover more pages like this. the test suite is unlikely to help, because it tests for the presence of the first title, not the absence of the second
[12:16] <jtv> intellectronica: we could have an automatic pagetest for double/omitted h1s I guess
[12:16] <intellectronica> danilos: 428440 ?
[12:17] <intellectronica> yeah, maybe that's something we should. there will be more pages like this
[12:17] <danilos> intellectronica, yep
[12:18] <intellectronica> let's talk to barry when he gets in
[12:20] <intellectronica> danilos: please add a comment between the condition and the then-clause of the if statement to distinguish them
[12:20] <danilos> intellectronica, sure
[12:21] <intellectronica> danilos: the indentation on line 27/28 is a bit off
[12:22] <stub> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~stub/launchpad/kill-harder/+merge/11517
[12:22] <intellectronica> danilos: other than that it's all nice and good and r=me
[12:23] <danilos> intellectronica, I don't see the problem with the indentation, what do you mean? (this is the default emacs python-mode does, and I never had complaints about it)
[12:23] <danilos> intellectronica, thanks for the review!
[12:23] <intellectronica> danilos: can't you see the the selves don't align?
[12:24] <danilos> intellectronica, they do for me (both on MP page and in my editor)
[12:24] <intellectronica> danilos: best is if you break immediately after the parenthesis
[12:24] <intellectronica> danilos: really?!
[12:24] <danilos> intellectronica, yeah
[12:25] <intellectronica> danilos: wow, looking with a text editor it indeed looks fine, but not in the mp. strange
[12:25] <intellectronica> maybe a chromium-related bug or something
[12:25] <danilos> intellectronica, perhaps some font issue then?
[12:25] <intellectronica> stub: so, is that a branch you want reviewed, or you were just testing your keyboard?
[12:25] <stub> That is a branch I'd like reviewed
[12:26] <intellectronica> danilos: yeah, but still, it's fixed-width, what could possibly go wrong
[12:26] <danilos> intellectronica, I've seen "fixed-width" fonts which aren't really (a slight mistake in metrics, and...)
[12:29] <henninge> intellectronica: wow, you are quick ... ;-)
[12:30] <intellectronica> yeah, looks just fine in FF too
[12:31] <intellectronica> henninge: yeah, the trick is to only accept very small patches
[12:33] <intellectronica> stub: in line 117 it will be easier to read if you don't rely on coercion of the empty list to false and instead check for length
[12:34] <intellectronica> stub: what's the deal with the unspecified slice? is that your way of saying you want to clone the list so that you can modify it while iterating over the existing copy?
[12:35] <stub> yes - copy to be explicit I'm not modifying the source list.
[12:36]  * stub fixes line 117
[12:36] <intellectronica> stub: cool. r=me
[12:37] <stub> ta :-)
[12:37]  * stub adds a comment that pids is getting mutated.
[12:38]  * henninge lunches
[14:07] <adeuring> henninge: could you do a follow-up review of my previous MP: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~adeuring/launchpad/hwdb-submissions-with-udev-data-2/+merge/11691 ?
[14:09] <henninge> yes, put it in the queue, I have something else to finish first.
[14:10] <henninge> intellectronica: do you know of any random behavior of extract_text when used in a doc test (as opposed to pagetest)?
[14:11] <henninge> intellectronica: Ursinha observed that
[14:11] <intellectronica> no, what's the random behaviour?
[14:11] <intellectronica> and what's the input?
[14:11] <henninge> Ursinha: ^
[14:12] <henninge> intellectronica: oh no, sorry. that is a pagetest
[14:13] <henninge> intellectronica: http://paste.ubuntu.com/270891/
[14:13] <henninge> Ursinha: how does it fail?
[14:14] <henninge> intellectronica: She said she needed lines 11 to 19 to get it to work.
[14:15] <henninge> intellectronica: but i just tried it without those lines and it works just fine.
[14:16] <intellectronica> what's the point of that complicated setup? can you not simply import extract_text?
[14:16] <intellectronica> heh, i should have asked about a million dollar
[14:17] <intellectronica> so what is it that doesn't work?
[14:17] <henninge> Ursinha: how did you come to know about this setup anyway? I didn't even know that was needed.
[14:17] <henninge> intellectronica: She seems to be no responding atm.
[14:17] <henninge> not
[14:28] <Ursinha> henninge, bad connection, sorry
[14:29] <Ursinha> I said, I saw that in page-helpers.txt
[14:29]  * Ursinha checks the name of the file
[14:30] <Ursinha> henninge, actually that file didn't tell me to do that, but I tried to use it without importing stuff and it didn't work, so I looked in that file to see where did it come from
[14:31] <henninge> Ursinha: but extract_text is used all over Launchpad page tests so it should work.
[14:31] <henninge> Ursinha: how did it fail exactly?
[14:32] <bac> hey barry would you have time to do a 2nd UI review on some mailling list pages?  i've got pretty screenshots!
[14:32] <Ursinha> henninge, it said it couldn't find it
[14:32] <henninge> Ursinha: have you tried it again, just now?
[14:33] <Ursinha> henninge, running this moment
[14:33] <henninge> Ursinha: without the setup?
[14:33] <Ursinha> henninge, yes
[14:34] <Ursinha> henninge, and about the random behaviour, wasn
[14:35] <barry> bac: i would!  my stack is a bit deep right now, but i'm starting to pop items.  sign me up
[14:35] <Ursinha> wasn't'just with extract_text, but in simple output text, as I mentioned that happened with whitespaces it wanted me to put
[14:35] <Ursinha> henninge, now it ran without errors
[14:36] <bac> barry: i'll look around.  maybe post-vacation, wonderfully refreshed beuno has a spare moment for a UI review.  if not i'll hound you later.
[14:36] <henninge> Ursinha: ok, I'd say that was some confusion.
[14:36] <henninge> Ursinha: are you aware why it is better to use extract_text?
[14:37] <Ursinha> henninge, I don't think so
[14:37] <beuno> bac, I can take it!
[14:38] <henninge> henninge: First: If some-one decides in the future to put a link on one word in the test, you'd have to add extra ... for the test to pass.
[14:38] <henninge> with extract text, extra html is just filtered out.
[14:38] <henninge> Ursinha: ^
[14:38] <bac> beuno: intellectronica has already done a first UI review, so you're just mentoring:  https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~bac/launchpad/bug-421986-team-list-pages/+merge/11672
[14:38] <Ursinha> henninge, right
[14:39] <Ursinha> indeed
[14:39] <henninge> Ursinha: Second: If the test fails it outputs *all* text that is saw instead.
[14:39] <Ursinha> hmm
[14:39] <henninge> Ursinha: with html this can be *a lot* of text.
[14:40] <henninge> that makes reading the failure output of the text very, very hard.
[14:40] <henninge> I had that once ...
[14:40] <henninge> Ursinha: but with extract_text that html will get filtered out, too.
[14:42] <intellectronica> sinzui: i find the quoted "codename" in a column header a bit funny
[14:42] <sinzui> intellectronica: it is consistent
[14:42] <intellectronica> sinzui: really? where else does it appear?
[14:42] <intellectronica> beuno: what do you think of it?
[14:43] <Ursinha> henninge, http://paste.ubuntu.com/270911/
[14:43] <sinzui> We show the "codename" in quotes on several pages, series +index, +series,
[14:44] <henninge> Ursinha: wonderful!
[14:44] <Ursinha> henninge, :)
[14:44] <henninge> Ursinha: saves me some typing I was just doing ... ;-)
[14:45] <henninge> Ursinha: r=me
[14:45] <beuno> intellectronica, I'm not crazy about it, although it is consistent, and I can't think of a much better way of doing it off the bat
[14:45] <Ursinha> henninge, many thanks
[14:45] <intellectronica> sinzui: i'd say we can remove the quotes, or just call the thing 'Version name'. i'm curious to hear what beuno and other people think about this
[14:46] <intellectronica> when i saw it, i thought the version is called 'codename', and it made it hard to understand what's going on. if it wasn't quoted it would have been better
[14:46] <beuno> intellectronica, is there a screenshot to look at?
[14:47] <intellectronica> these quotes are a literary device indicating irony, or other cases where the obvious meaning is not the correct parsing. i don't think it should be used in user interface much
[14:47] <intellectronica> beuno: let me prepare one for you
[14:48] <abentley> sinzui: It would be nice not to show the quotes when there's no codename.
[14:49] <intellectronica> beuno: https://devpad.canonical.com/~tom/version-codename-screenshot.png
[14:49] <adeuring> henninge: I'll leave quite soon -- if you have questions about my branch, can you ask them via mail?
[14:50] <sinzui> beuno: https://edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-registry/3.1
[14:50] <beuno> I don't feel the quotes are needed in the column header
[14:50] <sinzui> ^ abentley I do not see quotes being used
[14:50] <intellectronica> sinzui: in https://launchpad.dev/firefox/trunk/+milestones the table is screwed. there's one th missing, it seems
[14:50] <henninge> adeuring: I will, np.
[14:51]  * sinzui looks
[14:51] <abentley> sinzui: Neither do I.  Perhaps that's been fixed.
[14:51] <sinzui> abentley: the phantom quotes that appeared a few months ago was an ajax issue
[14:51] <intellectronica> sinzui: other than that ui=me
[14:53] <intellectronica> sinzui: and r=me as well
[14:54] <sinzui> I see the series column is missing.
[14:55] <beuno> bac, ball is in your court
[14:56] <bac> beuno: thanks!
[14:56]  * bac looks
[15:12] <Ursinha> henninge, the test suite run caused my notebook to freeze again
[15:13] <henninge> Ursinha: wow
[15:13] <henninge> Ursinha: Really the full suite or just this one page test?
[15:13] <Ursinha> henninge, it happens about 50% times I run it
[15:14] <Ursinha> henninge, I did bin/test -vvt lp.translations.*
[15:14] <henninge> Ursinha: interesting ...
[15:15] <henninge> Ursinha: what about running it in EC2?
[15:15] <Ursinha> henninge, that's ok, I just do that before submitting
[15:15] <henninge> Ursinha: ?
[15:15] <Ursinha> I mean, I run the translations tests
[15:16] <henninge> Ursinha: That must be a more general problem, though ...
[15:17] <Ursinha> henninge, I think so, will try to do more research on it later
[15:18] <henninge> Ursinha: yeah, run it through ec2test for now ...
[15:18] <danilos> henninge, intellectronica, abentley: another branch in the queue, when you feel like it, I'd be more than happy to have it reviewed :)
[15:20] <abentley> intellectronica: Which sinzui are you reviewing?
[15:20] <Ursinha> henninge, yeah... the freezing tests aren't stopping me to land my branch, I just wanted to report
[15:22] <intellectronica> abentley: the one i claimed :)
[15:26] <abentley> sinzui: In lib/lp/registry/templates/product-distros.pt, you have "distrribution-series" instead of "distribution-series".
[15:26] <sinzui> yuck
[15:31] <barry> henninge, intellectronica, abentley do any of you have time for a 178 line review?
[15:31] <abentley> barry: Sure.
[15:32] <barry> abentley: awesome, thanks.  will mp it now
[15:34] <henninge> bigjools: now you even got two reviews for one line ;-)
[15:35] <bigjools> henninge: I feel lucky
[15:37] <intellectronica> sinzui, beuno: so, any decision on the "codename"?
[15:38] <sinzui> I believe we remove quotes, we never show it is quotes
[15:38] <sinzui> s/is/in/
[15:40] <intellectronica> sinzui: i'm not sure i understand. you're going to remove the quotes from the column header?
[15:40] <sinzui> I am removing it form the column header
[15:41] <sinzui> beuno: I don't feel the quotes are needed in the column header
[15:41] <sinzui> ^ beuno has spoken
[15:41] <sinzui> sorry, that quote does not look like a quote, but it is a quote
[15:44] <barry> abentley: mp sent
[15:45] <abentley> barry: Did you specify me as a reviewer?
[15:45] <barry> abentley: i did
[15:45] <abentley> barry: Okay, I'll review it when I get the email.
[15:46] <barry> abentley: thanks. it should be easy
[15:51] <bac> beuno: re: your question about breadcrumbs...  the url https://launchpad.dev/~testing-spanish-team/+invitation/hwdb-team only has as single breadcrumb for the testing-spanish-team.  the rest of the traversal does not generate any.  if the breadcrumb list only has one element they are not displayed.
[15:52] <bac> beuno: so that's the explanation of the current behavior.  what do you think the breadcrumb for that URL should be?
[15:52] <beuno> bac, good question
[15:52] <beuno> I'm in a call, waiting to go into another call
[15:52] <beuno> so I'd say land it for now  :)
[15:52] <bac> ok, i'll answer in the MP.  we can revisit as necessary.
[15:53] <abentley> barry: You know that you can run lint anytime, right?
[15:53] <barry> abentley: i always remember that after bzr send tells me there are lint problems ;)
[15:53] <abentley> barry: Ah, okay.
[15:54] <barry> abentley: if we didn't have so many fp's i'd say bzr send should barf if there are lint problems
[15:55] <abentley> barry: I know the feeling.  Does your comment somewhat mean "I wish lint showed up earlier in the email"?
[15:55] <bac> beuno:  when you get a chance, please update your vote on https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~bac/launchpad/bug-421986-team-list-pages/+merge/11672
[15:56] <sinzui> barry: when you landed you title branch, did you write tests that verified titles like `+series : Mozilla Firefox`?
[15:56] <beuno> bac, sure. As soon as I get DNS back
[15:56] <barry> abentley: that would partly help because i wouldn't spend so much time writing the cover letter if i know i had lint to pick.  maybe also it could print the lint problems and then ask to continue or abort?
[15:56] <barry> sinzui: there are a billion tests for that.  every story prints browser.title.
[15:57] <abentley> barry: We could do that on the commandline, sure.  I think we'd have to display the lint, so folks would know if it was fp's.
[15:57] <sinzui> barry: okay, I will not let this block me form landing branches
[15:57] <barry> sinzui: fixing all those is what took so damn long for that branch
[15:57] <barry> abentley: +1
[16:40] <bigjools> got a complicated-ish one when LP sees my MP mail, I'll be around to guide you through it whoever can look at it
[16:47] <barry> abentley: thanks!
[16:47] <abentley> barry: np
[17:25] <intellectronica> abentley: if it's ok with you i'm going off call. it's getting late and i still want to do some hacking this evening
[17:27] <intellectronica> i'll take that to be the good old silent affirmative
[17:54] <cprov> abentley: would you have time for another review ?
[17:55] <abentley> cprov: I expect so.
[17:55] <cprov> abentley: okay, thanks -> https://code.launchpad.net/~cprov/launchpad/bug-417159-build-ui-tweaks/+merge/11703
[18:00] <abentley> bigjools: Could you please document the parameters of newBinaryPublication and newSourcePublication?
[18:01] <bigjools> abentley: yep
[18:01] <bigjools> I have to run out for a bit, I'll be back in an hour
[18:03] <abentley> bigjools: Why does newBinaryPublication ignore the status parameter?
[18:03] <abentley> bigjools: (newSourcePublication too)
[18:06] <cprov> abentley: ignoring the status seems to be the right thing to do, publishing records should always be created as PENDING. 'status' shouldn't be an argument.
[18:06] <abentley> cprov: That sounds fine to me.
[18:06] <cprov> abentley: callsites that need a different status should update the record explicitly (only needed by tests, IIRC)
[18:08] <abentley> cprov: It looks like you're duplicating the functionality of canonical.launchpad.scripts.tests.run_script.  If possible, use run_script instead.
[18:10] <cprov> abentley: I've not checked the diff, but yes, run_script() should be used instead of local subprocess call.
[18:10] <abentley> cprov: I meant bigjools.
[18:10] <abentley> bigjools: It looks like you're duplicating the functionality of canonical.launchpad.scripts.tests.run_script.  If possible, use run_script instead.
[18:11] <cprov> abentley: no worries, it wasn't an offense ;)
[18:27] <abentley> cprov: I've approved the code.  Whether you think it needs UI review is up to you.
[18:27] <cprov> abentley: thank you.
[18:28] <cprov> abentley: I will go with ui=rs, probably, unless beuno has time ...
[19:44] <sinzui> beuno: I need a UI review as well as a code review for https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~sinzui/launchpad/source-package-ui/+merge/11718
[19:46] <beuno> sinzui, sure
[19:46] <beuno> no h1?
[19:46] <sinzui> hmm
[19:46] <beuno> in general, it's nice
[19:46] <sinzui> your right. there is no onw
[19:47] <beuno> what is alsa-utils-blah?
[19:47] <beuno> binary? diff?
[19:47] <beuno> deb?
[19:47] <sinzui> OMG
[19:49] <sinzui> beuno: the <h1> would be: alsa-utils
[19:49] <beuno> also, empty relationships are kinda sucky
[19:49] <beuno> Urgency: Low Urgency
[19:49] <beuno> can we drop the extra urgency?
[19:49] <beuno> branch, can we have a bzr icon for "trunk"?
[19:50] <sinzui> beuno: I really do not know the answers to these questions. No one on my teams knows sourcepackages. And we have no time to do real design
[19:50] <beuno> ok, I'll just throw it out there
[19:50] <beuno> you do whatever you can  :)
[19:51] <beuno> edit icon next to the project instead of "change upstream link"?
[19:51] <sinzui> beuno: That would be an error
[19:52] <sinzui> beuno: Having looked at the link, I think you mean Branch, which is actually a productseries
[19:52] <beuno> sinzui, yes
[19:53] <beuno> sinzui, ui=me is yours
[19:53] <beuno> I'll take whatever you manage to change
[19:53] <sinzui> beuno: I don't think I can drop the redundant Urgency, it is in the Enum
[19:54] <beuno> sinzui, I suspected as much
[19:55] <sinzui> beuno: Should I really put a bzr icon next to a product series...maybe I should change the label to say series
[19:57] <abentley> sinzui: "The HTML page title" seems ambiguous to me.  It could be an HTML fragment which is a page title, or it could be the text to use in the HTML title element.
[19:58] <sinzui> abentley: yes, it is now ambiguous since barry's branch
[19:58] <sinzui> abentley: it is still required though. (I reported a bu)
[19:58] <sinzui> g
[19:58] <abentley> sinzui: No, I mean that the docstring is ambiguous.
[19:59] <sinzui> abentley: oh yes, that was true when I started the branch
[19:59] <beuno> sinzui, change the label
[19:59] <sinzui> abentley: It was designed to be <title>
[20:00] <sinzui> beuno: NO the page will fail. barry did not remove the page_title requirement
[20:00] <abentley> sinzui: All the instances of that docstring are in code that you added.
[20:00] <barry> that is a bug
[20:00] <sinzui> abentley: I'll remove them
[20:01] <barry> i may get to fixing that today, but we'll see
[20:01] <abentley> sinzui: Okay.
[20:03] <sinzui> abentley: I am making them simple attrs
[20:03] <sinzui>     page_title = 'Upstream links'
[20:03] <sinzui> which I hope will become the breadcrumb when salgado gets his branch finished
[20:04] <abentley> sinzui: Makes sense.  I did wonder why they were properties.
[20:04] <sinzui> They use to put the object's displayname in them but that disappears yetsterday
[20:07] <sinzui> beuno: story I was not saying no to your suggestion to change the label. I am bad at juggling conversations. I changed Branch => Series
[20:38] <danilos> abentley, another UI branch up if you've got time
[20:38] <abentley> danilo: sure.
[20:39] <abentley> danilo: Where?
[20:40] <danilos> abentley, waiting for MP to show up
[20:41] <abentley> danilos: Okay
[20:41] <danilos> abentley, https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~danilo/launchpad/bug-429414/+merge/11729
[20:45] <danilos> abentley, apparently, my last branch got some test breakages (my local copy didn't have the latest code by barry when I did a full test), so this one fixes a few of the failing tests from that branch as well
[20:45] <danilos> abentley, mostly page titles
[20:45] <abentley> danilos: Cool.
[20:45] <abentley> danilos: r=me
[20:46] <danilos> abentley, thanks
[20:46] <abentley> danilos: np
[20:47] <barry> sinzui, beuno wanna take a quick look at the new ~team/+invitations page?
[20:47] <sinzui> barry: sure
[20:48] <barry> sinzui: http://people.canonical.com/~barry/invite.png and http://people.canonical.com/~barry/noinvites.png
[20:49] <sinzui> barry: what do you think about the edit icon in the last column
[20:50] <barry> sinzui: i don't like it much.  that's the way the page currently is, and i couldn't think of anything brilliant to put there.  have any ideas?
[20:50] <sinzui> no
[20:51] <barry> yeah.  that's why i left it that way ;)
[20:51] <sinzui> I presume the edit is the accept/decline edit page
[20:51] <barry> yep
[20:52]  * sinzui looks for bugs users may have reported
[20:55] <sinzui> barry: our 15 minutes are up, and no user has reported an issue about it. The page fine
[20:57] <barry> sinzui: fab, thanks
[21:23] <bac> beuno: since we can ui=rs for mechanical changes can we also seek a single UI review from a non-beuno if we want a second pair of eyes?  the full mentored UI review is a killer for simple changes.
[22:04] <bac> sinzui: would you have time to do a code review on my branch?
[22:04] <sinzui> I do
[22:05] <bac> cool.  i'll add you to the MP
[22:14] <Ursinha> hi sinzui
[22:14] <sinzui> Hi Ursinha
[22:14] <Ursinha> (wrong channel :)
[22:16] <bac> sinzui: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~bac/launchpad/bug-429455-team-pages/+merge/11739
[22:16] <bac> hi Ursinha
[22:16] <Ursinha> hi bac
[22:19] <bac> sinzui: i'm going to step out for a bit and will answer when i return.
[22:39] <bac> sinzui: thanks for the comments


[15:56] <daker> godbyk, are you around ?
[17:43] <daker> thorwil, hi
[17:43] <thorwil> hi!
[17:44] <daker> i need n° 4
[17:45] <daker> if yoy have time!!!
[17:45] <daker> s/yoy/you
[17:45] <thorwil> daker: number 4 form the morocco set got the loco vote?
[17:46] <daker> yes
[17:46] <thorwil> good choice
[17:49] <daker> thanks
[17:55] <thorwil> daker: do you want "ma" or "morocco" in there?
[17:56] <thorwil> when i created the set, the ubuntu font wasn't in beta. so now it's simple to do
[18:01] <daker> 1 - with the logo like the then n°4
[18:02] <daker> and one with "ubuntu-ma the Moroccan Team"+ the logo
[18:02] <daker> wait our leader is here
[18:02] <daker> i'll talk to him
[18:04] <thorwil> daker: in a just a few minutes, i will have it with no addition, with "ma" and with "morocco"
[18:04] <daker> oki
[18:05] <thorwil> actually, gonna a bit later, dinner time :)
[18:05] <daker> take your time
[19:10] <thorwil> daker: mail send. note that the SVGs are in the same rather large scale as the official ubuntu logo file. are you comfortable with exporting PNGs yourself?
[19:16] <daker> thorwil, inkscape is hard for me
[19:20] <thorwil> daker: you only need to open the file, go File -> Export Bitmap. "Drawing" should be pre-selected. then just define the desired size, path and hit export
[19:20] <daker> oki
[19:23] <daker> Well it works
[19:23] <daker> thank you very very much
[19:23] <daker> :D
[19:25] <thorwil> daker: you're welcome :)
[20:41] <thorwil> daker: mainly as backup: https://code.launchpad.net/~t-w-/+junk/ubuntu_morocco
[20:41] <daker> cool thanks
[23:00] <ChrisWoollard> Hello all.
[23:04] <ChrisWoollard> It is really annoying. Somebody has editted a bunch to tex files and spelt application wrong. So now it doesn't compile again.
[23:05] <daker> hi ChrisWoollard
[23:05] <daker> somebody, Who ?
[23:05] <ChrisWoollard> Hello
[23:05] <ChrisWoollard> No idea
[23:05] <ChrisWoollard> I am trying to fix it.
[23:10] <daker> it's appear on rev 138 line 130
[23:11] <dutchie> bzr blame will tell you
[23:14] <godbyk> It is annoying when people put syntax errors in the doc.
[23:14] <ChrisWoollard> Ok. I have fixed it.
[23:14] <ChrisWoollard> I have pushed the changes back
[23:14] <godbyk> Not just because it breaks the build, but also because it makes me trust them not to have added other errors that don't break the build.  (Spelling and grammar errors in the text, for instance.)
[23:15] <godbyk> If it becomes too much of a problem, we may have to restrict who can commit.
[23:15] <daker> godbyk, +1
[23:15] <ChrisWoollard> +1
[23:16] <ChrisWoollard> I always thought that procedure was to test comile before commiting
[23:20] <ChrisWoollard> It had to either be Jason Cook or Luke Jenning. They are the only people to have commited since I last did. I know it worked then.
[23:23] <godbyk> It is a best practice / proper procedure.  But there's no way to enforce it.
[23:23] <ChrisWoollard> Never mind.
[23:29] <ChrisWoollard> question.
[23:29] <ChrisWoollard> Should toolbar be tool-bar or toolbar?
[23:30] <dutchie> one word
[23:30] <dutchie> no hyphens
[23:30] <ChrisWoollard> lovely
[23:30] <ChrisWoollard> tnx
[23:35] <daker> godbyk, is the decision is taken about the format ?
[23:36] <daker> i didn't see anything about the example
[23:36] <daker> s
[23:39] <godbyk> ChrisWoollard: This is pretty helpful for those types of questions: http://library.gnome.org/devel/gdp-style-guide/stable/wordlist.html.en
[23:39] <godbyk> I've agreed with their style choices on the ones I've glanced at.
[23:40] <godbyk> daker: No decision yet. I think we're still waiting for people to create examples in the various formats so we can compare them.
[23:40] <ChrisWoollard> That was what I was looking for the other day but couldn't find it
[23:40] <godbyk> Personally, I'm leaning toward docbook at the moment.
[23:40] <godbyk> ChrisWoollard: yeah, it's buried pretty deep.  I ended up Googling for it.
[23:40] <godbyk> We should incorporate a lot of that into our own style guide some day.
[23:43] <daker> godbyk, thanks


[15:54] <savio> thanks for approving my request
[16:24] <hggdh> er, which request?
[16:26]  * TheLordOfTime yawns
[16:27] <TheLordOfTime> hello, bug peoples
[16:32] <penguin42> hey
[17:21] <hggdh> heyo
[18:42] <exodus> Is anyone having the Gtk-Qt freeze issue?
[18:42] <exodus> I need some help reporting this bug
[18:43] <exodus> Would be great if someone was having any issues opening Apps that use Qt4 libs under Unity, which then freezes Xorg
[18:53] <penguin42> does it free up a few seconds later?
[18:54] <exodus> penguin42, well, not for me. At least not for 30 sec which is what I usually wait
[18:55] <exodus> penguin42, I'm noticed that when it happens, I can press ctrl + alt + f1 like crazy, and at some point it will go to the vt1
[18:55] <penguin42> exodus: ok, it's just I'm having frequent Unity crashes; it's restarting itself though
[18:55] <exodus> I noticed that 1) Xorg is consuming 100% cpu
[18:55] <exodus> One time it just restarted my Xorg
[18:55] <exodus> and 2) the apps causing it are loading Qt4 libraries
[18:56] <exodus> opening them in the console show a lot of GTK debug errors
[18:56] <exodus> I'm currently testing Quantal to report bugs and such
[18:56] <exodus> penguin42, are you in 12.10?
[18:56] <penguin42> exodus: If it's killing X file a bug against xserver-xorg - the app should never be able to do that, irrespective of which lib it uses
[18:57] <exodus> It doesn't actually kill Xorg, but it puts it at 100% cpu usage and makes the system unusable. I can barely ctrl-alt-f1 when the problem starts.
[18:57] <exodus> But I see what you mean, the bug is with Xorg
[18:58] <penguin42> hmm well X using 100% cpu could be a library/unity bug
[18:58] <exodus> I was wondering if anyone is testing quantal so I can get some feedback
[18:58] <penguin42> exodus: I'm mostly running quantal kde, but I've just installed a VM with unity
[18:58] <Logan_> If there is a bug that could block release, who could I speak to so that the importance is bumped and someone from Canonical is looking at it?
[18:59] <penguin42> Logan_: Bug-control members can set importance
[18:59] <exodus> Logan_, anyone in the ubuntu bug squad control team
[18:59] <penguin42> Logan_: I can do that - what's the bug?
[18:59] <Logan_> Bug 1029648 specifically
[18:59] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1029648 in gnome-control-center "Gnome System Settings -- User Account Crash" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1029648
[18:59] <Logan_> gnome-control-center goes crazy when trying to edit a username - the text gets really big, and then metacity crashes
[19:00] <Logan_> and so does gnome-control-center
[19:00] <exodus> woaaah
[19:00] <exodus> just reproduced it
[19:01] <penguin42> fun
[19:01] <Logan_> did metacity crash for you as well?
[19:02] <exodus> Text got all crazy, and it crashed the window
[19:02] <exodus> Although gnome-control-center was still in memory
[19:02] <penguin42> Logan_: Just set it 'High'
[19:02] <Logan_> I'd call it critical...
[19:02] <Logan_> but thanks!
[19:02] <penguin42> Logan_: It doesn't brick the machine, lose your data or stop the machine being installable or upgradable
[19:03] <Logan_> true
[19:03] <Logan_> and how do we get a developer on this? :P
[19:03] <penguin42> Logan_: I guess that depend how many other evil nasty bugs they're fighting through
[19:04] <Logan_> true
[19:05] <Logan_> I'm going to apport-collect as well
[19:05] <penguin42> Logan_:I've also tagged a nominate-for-quantal on it, (not sure if that's actually needed) but the release managers I think see that
[19:05] <Logan_> awesome
[19:06] <penguin42> Logan_: But to put it in context, it's not anywhere near the worst quantal bug out there!
[19:06] <Logan_> this is true :)
[19:06] <Logan_> I feel like there are a lot of issues in Quantal, even though it's already in Beta
[19:06] <penguin42> Logan_: But on the plus side, it's trivially repeatable
[19:06] <Logan_> compared to prior releases
[19:07] <Logan_> penguin42: should I apport-collect for that bug, or is it unnecessary?
[19:08] <penguin42> Logan_: How did you report it - directly or using ubuntu-bug ?
[19:08] <Logan_> someone else reported it
[19:08] <Logan_> directly
[19:08] <penguin42> generally best not to apport for someone elses bug
[19:08] <Logan_> ok
[19:10] <penguin42> Logan_: Out of interest what graphics card are you on?
[19:10] <Logan_> I'm running in VBox
[19:11] <Logan_> believe it's Gallium on LLVMpipe
[19:11] <Logan_> yup, Gallium 0.4 on LLVMpipe
[19:11] <penguin42> Logan_: Hmm I'm running in kvm with llvmpipe; I wonder if anyone on real graphics sees it
[19:12] <Logan_> hmm
[19:12] <penguin42> Logan_: llvmpipe is a nice idea, but it's currently as stable as a warm jelly(jello)
[19:12] <Logan_> exodus: Are you running in a VM as well?
[19:12] <Logan_> penguin42: I agree with you - I was really happy with Unity2D. :(
[19:12] <penguin42> gah - and now it won't let me login
[19:12] <Logan_> oh wonderful
[19:13] <exodus> Logan_, no, I'm running directly on my hardware
[19:14] <exodus> Nvidia proprietary driver
[19:14] <Logan_> penguin42: ^
[19:14] <Logan_> and he was able to reproduce as well
[19:15] <penguin42> Logan_: Right, I've moved it to triaged since it's trivially repeatable - most I can do
[19:15] <Logan_> aight


[11:17] <bac> morning gmb
[11:17]  * bac typed 'mor<TAB>' and for some reason thought word completion would work.
[11:29] <gmb> Hi bac.
[11:32] <bac> gmb: looks like we may be it for the day, based on the emails
[11:33] <gmb> Yep, looks that way.
[11:34] <bac> gmb: i'll follow up on benji's request this morning
[11:34] <gmb> Cool.
[12:10] <bac> gmb, benji: chat?
[12:11] <benji> bac: firing up the horde-o-matic
[12:11]  * gmb waits for firefox
[13:57] <bac``> benji, gmb: what is the relation between our charm and the official adopted one?  i.e. bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~yellow/charms/oneiric/buildbot-master/trunk/  vs. bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/+branch/charms/buildbot-master ?  do we maintain our version and periocially the juju-ers promote it to the other?
[13:57] <benji> no idea
[13:58] <gmb> Erm. Not a clue. I didn't even know that our charm had been officially adopted, but then I havne't had cause to look at it in weeks.
[13:59] <bac``> aren't we a well-informed bunch?
[14:35]  * gmb -> errand; bbiab
[18:48] <bac> benji: if you're around, and alive, could you have a look at https://code.launchpad.net/~bac/charms/oneiric/buildbot-master/fix-apt-sources/+merge/100853
[18:48] <benji> bac: sure
[18:48] <bac> if you agree with the approach it'll be applied to the slave using the finest in cut-n-paste technologies
[18:48] <bac> benji: how's the head?
[18:49] <benji> It's holding steady.
[18:59] <benji> bac: looks good
[19:00] <bac> thanks. not much there.  i'll send you the link to the slave MP when it is ready if you don't mind
[19:01] <bac> yes, it is a shame.  but it is more of a shame to have to do it manually everytime you spin up an ec2 instance...
[19:02] <bac> perhaps i should put a config setting around it?
[19:02] <bac> i think i will
[19:02] <bac> benji: ^
[19:03] <benji> bac: that sounds like a good idea
[19:33] <benji> bac: do you have a minute for an lpbuildbot review? https://code.launchpad.net/~benji/lpbuildbot/subunit-stats/+merge/100858
[19:33] <bac> sure
[19:35] <bac> benji, when you push your branch to LP, if you specify the --stacked-on it'll not create private branches.  this MP seems to be based on the wrong branch (2000+ line diff)
[19:36] <benji> bac: ooh! that's not good; I think I can fix that
[19:45] <benji> bac: here you go: https://code.launchpad.net/~benji/lpbuildbot/subunit-stats/+merge/100860
[19:46] <bac> 185 << 2200 !
[19:47] <benji> :)
[19:50] <benji> bac: I'm knocking off.  I think I'll survive to be back tomorrow.
[19:51] <bac> benji: ok.
[19:51] <bac> hope you feel better


[18:09] <mdeslaur> jdstrand, sbeattie, jjohansen, micahg, tyhicks: meeting?
[18:09] <jjohansen> \o
[18:09] <tyhicks> Hello
[18:09]  * sbeattie waves
[18:09] <micahg> o/
[18:14] <kees> \o
[18:14] <jdstrand> oh yes
[18:14] <jdstrand> (sorry)
[18:15] <jdstrand> I adjusted the clendar and everything, and then still got confused
[18:15]  * jdstrand hates DST
[18:15] <jdstrand> mdeslaur, sbeattie, micahg, tyhicks, jjohansen: I'm here for the meeting now
[18:15] <jjohansen> \o/
[18:15] <jjohansen> :)
[18:15] <jdstrand> I apologize for being late
[18:16] <micahg> ok, we only have 45 minutes :)
[18:16] <jdstrand> #startmeeting
[18:16] <meetingology> Meeting started Mon Nov  7 18:16:28 2011 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
[18:16] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[18:16] <jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
[18:16] <jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
[18:17] <jdstrand> [TOPIC] Announcements
[18:17] <jdstrand> Team attended UDS last week. It was a very busy week and we have a lot to do. For details, see http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-p and our blueprints at https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu?searchtext=security-p
[18:17] <jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
[18:17] <jdstrand> I'll go first
[18:18] <jdstrand> I have a bunch of updates I am working on, so will continue with those
[18:18] <jdstrand> I've got a bit of an email backlog that I need to tend to
[18:18] <jdstrand> I'm also going through my merges today, and getting to some of them
[18:18] <jdstrand> I will be patch piloting this week
[18:18] <jdstrand> and then there is UDS aftermath (eg, discussing work items, prioritizing, etc)
[18:19] <jdstrand> that's it from me
[18:19] <jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
[18:19] <mdeslaur> I'm currently testing tomcat6 updates, hopefully I'll get them out today or tomorrow morning.
[18:19] <mdeslaur> I'm also working on some embargoed issues
[18:19] <mdeslaur> and have a few more packages to test that are ready to publish
[18:20] <mdeslaur> This week, we'll be going through the blueprints and assigning and prioritizing work items...We'll talk more about that once everyone has done their status report
[18:20] <mdeslaur> that's it from me. sbeattie, you're up
[18:20] <sbeattie> I'm on triage this week
[18:21] <sbeattie> I've got updates for openjdk, apache, and squid that I need to test and publish, with more in the pipeline.
[18:22] <sbeattie> I also need to a bit of post UDS cleanup
[18:22] <sbeattie> I think that's it for me
[18:22] <sbeattie> micahg: poke
[18:24] <micahg> I've got Mozilla updates, short week (off Wed and Thu), have to look into the DigiCert issue that Mozilla posted to see if we need other updates for it, some Chromium testing, that's it for me
[18:25] <jjohansen> I guess thats me up them
[18:25] <jjohansen> I have some kernel work flow (2 kernels), an email backlog, UDS aftermath (work item priorities, and apparmor ml follow on discussions), bug #810270, and starting on policy stacking
[18:26] <jjohansen> ah gah, wrong bug#
[18:26] <jjohansen> now /me has to dig through the bugs instead of notes
[18:27] <sbeattie> hehe
[18:27] <jjohansen> anyways its the alias bug cboltz brought up
[18:27]  * sbeattie marks jjohansen down for post-UDS organizational cleanup, too.
[18:28] <jjohansen> hehe, yeah
[18:28] <jdstrand> tyhicks: you're next
[18:29] <tyhicks> ack
[18:29] <tyhicks> I'm in the happy place this week
[18:29] <tyhicks> I've got a little bit of a start on a freetype update. I'll finish up that one before moving onto the rest of my security update queue
[18:29] <tyhicks> I need to finish testing a couple eCryptfs fixes and get them applied upstream A
[18:29] <tyhicks> ASAP*
[18:29] <tyhicks> I've got an ubuntu-security-sponsors update that spilled over from last week, while at UDS, that I want to get to before mdeslaur does
[18:29] <tyhicks> jdstrand: that's it
[18:29] <mdeslaur> oh! yeah, I'm on community this week also
[18:30] <jdstrand> cool, thanks
[18:30] <jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
[18:30] <jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Securi
[18:30] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/lastfm.html
[18:30] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/yaws.html
[18:30] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libmojolicious-perl.html
[18:31] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/tinyproxy.html
[18:31] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/gromacs.html
[18:31] <jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
[18:31] <mdeslaur> jdstrand: your blurb got truncated there ^
[18:31] <jdstrand> meh
[18:31] <jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
[18:31] <jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
[18:31] <jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
[18:32] <mdeslaur> jdstrand: shall we discuss blueprints/work items now?
[18:32] <jdstrand> mdeslaur: sure, go for it
[18:32]  * jdstrand hands the mic to mdeslaur
[18:32] <mdeslaur> is this on? <tap><tap>
[18:33] <jdstrand> hehe
[18:33]  * jdstrand actually heard the tap in his head. kinda weird
[18:33] <mdeslaur> so, this week we'll be going through the blueprints to 1- assign work items, 2- prioritize work items
[18:34] <mdeslaur> jdstrand, sbeattie, micahg, tyhicks, jjohansen: could you please go through your blueprints and create work items for the ones that currently don't have any? This needs to be done before wednesday so we can then prioritize them
[18:34] <mdeslaur> also, if you see work items you would like, please mark your named next to them to make it easier once we go down the list
[18:34] <micahg> mdeslaur: not before Wed, I can do it Friday
[18:35] <jdstrand> jdstrand: ack
[18:35] <jjohansen> mdeslaur: ack
[18:35] <tyhicks> mdeslaur: ack
[18:35] <jjohansen> jdstrand: perhaps you meant mdeslaur?
[18:35] <jjohansen> :)
[18:35] <jdstrand> hah
[18:35] <jdstrand> mdeslaur: ack
[18:35] <tyhicks> jjohansen: No, he's talking to himself again :)
[18:35] <mdeslaur> in particular, the following don't currently have work items: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/security-p-ecryptfs , https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/security-p-mozilla-lts , https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/security-p-apparmor-ubuntu
[18:35] <jdstrand> jjohansen: ;)
[18:36] <jdstrand> I've got the last one
[18:36] <micahg> I have the middle one :)
[18:36] <tyhicks> I've got the eCryptfs one
[18:36] <mdeslaur> no fistfights, how nice :)
[18:36] <sbeattie> mdeslaur: okay
[18:36] <jdstrand> micahg: can you at least do a quick first pass on that bp? I don't think there is a ton and it will help mdeslaur
[18:37] <jdstrand> (friday is too late for the release status meeting)
[18:37] <micahg> ACK, will try
[18:37] <jdstrand> micahg: if not, we can do a first pass
[18:37] <mdeslaur> so, on wed, we'll be going down the list and making sure they're assigned to the right people, and prioritizing them
[18:38] <mdeslaur> micahg: that's why firefox and chromium are written in C, to give you time to do other stuff while they are compiling... :)
[18:38] <mdeslaur> ok, that's it for me
[18:38]  * mdeslaur hands mike back to jdstrand
[18:39] <jdstrand> mdeslaur: thanks!
[18:39] <jdstrand> anything else?
[18:39] <micahg> md5 stuff?
[18:39] <micahg> or we can save it for next week
[18:40] <mdeslaur> micahg: what would you like to talk about md5 stuff?
[18:41] <micahg> about the possibility of enabling a warning in certain libraries that md5 is being used and that it might be insecure if that's in a security context for the duration of the alphas in precise
[18:43] <jdstrand> micahg: that is a work item in the catch-all. we left it that it would be prioritized with the others, and depending on how it is prioritized, go from there
[18:43] <micahg> ok
[18:44] <broder> o/ re: backports stuff
[18:44] <jdstrand> broder: go ahead
[18:44] <jdstrand> broder: and hello :)
[18:44]  * broder waves
[18:45] <broder> we're now generating a report of backports that have been superseded by security or stable updates: http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~broder/rebackporter/rebackports.json
[18:45] <broder> (code in lp:~broder/+junk/rebackporter)
[18:45] <broder> (html-friendly report to come as soon as harvest starts importing again)
[18:45] <mdeslaur> broder: cool!
[18:45] <jdstrand> broder: excellent! thanks :)
[18:46] <broder> state of things looks mostly good. i'm going to be following up with the backports team to try and establish policies for security/SRU backports going forward
[18:46] <jdstrand> broder: sounds awesome. thanks to you, tumbleweed and the other backporters on following up on this. we'll adjust that work item accordingly
[18:46] <broder> for the ones where the source release of the backport is deprecated, we don't have the manpower to test replacing them with a backport from a current release, so my proposal is to use the deprecated release as a being strictly better than what's in backports now
[18:47] <broder> and for all of them, i'm going to advocate reducing the testing requirements from our usual backports requirements so we can try and reduce the friction of getting them in
[18:48] <jdstrand> broder: I wonder if removing these types of backports would make sense, so others won't get them (since, by your admission, they aren't really maintainable any more)
[18:48] <broder> hmm...yeah, that seems like it could be a reasonable option as well
[18:49] <mdeslaur> hrm, at least having them there allows the possibility of them being manually patched for security issues
[18:49] <jdstrand> nothing saying someone can't still provide said update at a later date
[18:49] <micahg> if they're not there and someone wants them, they can request a backport from a supported release
[18:50] <jdstrand> (or do what micahg said)
[18:50] <broder> right, though for most of these (e.g. libvirt) the burden of backporting them (and testing reverse-dependencies) from a stable release is much higher than just cherry-picking updates
[18:51] <jdstrand> yep. I gave tumbleweed some pointers on trying to get the lucid libvirt going on hardy, but that is going to be a hairy update
[18:52] <jdstrand> but that is a corner case-- most aren't like that
[18:53] <jdstrand> are there any other items to discuss with the security team?
[18:56] <jdstrand> mdeslaur, sbeattie, micahg, tyhicks, jjohansen: (and broder) thanks!
[18:56] <jdstrand> #endmeeting
[18:56] <meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Nov  7 18:56:20 2011 UTC.
[18:56] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-11-07-18.16.moin.txt
[18:56] <mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand!
[18:56] <sbeattie> jdstrand: thank you
[18:56] <tyhicks> jdstrand: thank you
[18:56] <jjohansen> jdstrand: thanks
[18:56] <broder> jdstrand: thanks :)
[18:58] <bdrung> !dmb
[18:58] <bdrung> !dmb-ping meeting in a few minutes
[18:59] <bdrung> !dmb-ping
[18:59] <micahg> hehe, wrong factoid :)
[18:59]  * stgraber waves
[18:59] <tumbleweed> o/
[19:00] <tumbleweed> [OT] jdstrand: err, I recall no discussion of libvirt on hardy. Was that really me?
[19:01] <broder> tumbleweed, jdstrand: uh, i think that was me :)
[19:02] <bdrung> cody-somerville and Laney won't attend the meeting
[19:03] <micahg> well, we still have quorum so we're good i think
[19:03] <bdrung> #startmeeting
[19:03] <meetingology> Meeting started Mon Nov  7 19:03:47 2011 UTC.  The chair is bdrung. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
[19:03] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[19:04] <bdrung> [TOPIC] Review of previous action items
[19:04] <bdrung> cody-somerville isn't here. so we probably can skip the review of his items.
[19:05] <bdrung> [TOPIC] Continue discussion about our package set management workflows (review TB feedback)
[19:05] <bdrung> i haven't found the time to catch up the mails from the last few days
[19:06] <bdrung> should we move this point to the end?
[19:07] <stgraber> sure
[19:07] <tumbleweed> IIRC the only response was from sabdfl
[19:07] <bdrung> [TOPIC] Creation of new desktop-extra package set
[19:07] <stgraber> tumbleweed: well, it was discussed at the TB meeting, then sabdfl commented by e-mail after the meeting
[19:08] <bdrung> [LINK] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-desktop/2011-October/003374.html
[19:08] <tumbleweed> stgraber: ah, I was in the plenaries... Anyway, we can discuss it later
[19:09] <bdrung> do we have a sufficient package set description?
[19:10] <micahg> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-desktop/2011-November/003391.html
[19:10] <bdrung> micahg: where is the description for ubuntu-desktop?
[19:11] <micahg> the only thing that looks funny in there is ekiga, the rest is fine
[19:11] <micahg> bdrung: it's a seed, no description needed
[19:12] <bdrung> micahg: but desktop-extra wouldn't be a seed, would it?
[19:12] <micahg> ubuntu-desktop packageset = basically anything in ubuntu-desktop excluding stuff in desktop-core and core
[19:12] <micahg> bdrung: correct, so seb128 gave a rough description
[19:13] <micahg> NOT IN ubuntu-desktop, but needed for a vanilla GNOME
[19:13] <bdrung> is this precise enough? how sharp is "vanilla GNOME" defined?
[19:14] <micahg> idk, perhaps an upstream GNOME link with their base components would be enough?
[19:15]  * micahg hunts for a SME
[19:15] <bdrung> SME?
[19:15] <micahg> subject matter expert
[19:17] <micahg> bdrung: maybe we should table until someone pops up that can give us more info
[19:18] <bdrung> k
[19:18] <tumbleweed> or if that fails, invite a desktop person to the next meeting
[19:18] <micahg> ideally the person who requested the packageset should be here, but maybe we didn't make that clear
[19:19] <bdrung> [TOPIC] Serge Hallyn's application for upload rights for the Ubuntu Server package set.
[19:19] <hallyn> \o
[19:19] <bdrung> [TOPIC] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SergeHallyn/ServerDeveloperApplication
[19:19] <bdrung> hallyn: can you introduce yourself?
[19:20] <hallyn> Sure - I'm Serge Hallyn, member of server team.  I mainly watch the virtualization stack, libvirt, lxc, qemu-kvm, etc
[19:22] <hallyn> I rarely make any changes without discussing them with someone else first, but sponsoring is much more work to ask of someone, so it seemed best to ask for server set upload rights
[19:23] <bdrung> hallyn: how good is the relation between the server team and debian?
[19:23] <bdrung> hallyn: IIRC e.g. qemu-kvm has big difference in both distributions
[19:23] <hallyn> I like to think it's pretty good.  (getting ready to submit a bug back to debian from an ubuntu one right now)
[19:23]  * ajmitch had thought that hallyn was core dev already, tbh :)
[19:24] <hallyn> yes, qemu-kvm is ac ompletely different package in ubuntu
[19:24] <hallyn> after this next TLS I want to think about merging back
[19:24] <hallyn> but not for LTS
[19:24] <hallyn> (s/TLS/LTS :)
[19:24] <stgraber> As I said on hallyn's wiki page, I've been sponsoring quite a few of his uploads (last being an lxc SRU last week), most were good to upload as-is, the few I changed were mostly to add some stuff that I wanted to bundle in the upload ;)
[19:24]  * micahg wonders if there will be a new TLS after the LTS
[19:24] <bdrung> :)
[19:25] <hallyn> (better than a TPS report i guess)
[19:25] <bdrung> hallyn: is there something like a server team on the debian side or are you just working with a bunch of different maintainers?
[19:26] <hallyn> bdrung, different maintainers, though mostly I just work through the debian bug system.  (i do sit on the mailing lists)
[19:26] <bdrung> do the other dmb members have questions in the pipe?
[19:26] <stgraber> I don't
[19:26] <hallyn> I've said this before, but am intending to seek a sponsor soon to get debian DD so I can feel more closely involved
[19:27] <micahg> hallyn: do you have an interest in any of the other packages in the server packageset besides the few you've uploaded?
[19:27] <hallyn> (thank you for not pointing out redundancy)
[19:27] <hallyn> micahg, yes.  For general helping out in early-release syncs for instance
[19:28] <bdrung> ready to vote?
[19:28] <micahg> yep
[19:28] <stgraber> yep
[19:28] <tumbleweed> sure
[19:29] <bdrung> [VOTE] Should Serge Hallyn get upload rights for the Ubuntu Server package set?
[19:29] <meetingology> Please vote on: Should Serge Hallyn get upload rights for the Ubuntu Server package set?
[19:29] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
[19:29] <bdrung> +1
[19:29] <meetingology> +1 received from bdrung
[19:29] <stgraber> +1
[19:29] <meetingology> +1 received from stgraber
[19:29] <tumbleweed> +1
[19:29] <meetingology> +1 received from tumbleweed
[19:29] <geser> +1
[19:29] <meetingology> +1 received from geser
[19:29] <micahg> +1
[19:29] <meetingology> +1 received from micahg
[19:30] <bdrung> [ENDVOTE]
[19:30] <meetingology> Voting ended on: Should Serge Hallyn get upload rights for the Ubuntu Server package set?
[19:30] <meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
[19:30] <meetingology> Motion carried
[19:30] <bdrung> hallyn: congrats
[19:30] <hallyn> thanks :)
[19:30] <micahg> bdrung: jbicha is here if you want to go back to the desktop-extra packageset
[19:31] <stgraber> hallyn: congrats!
[19:31] <micahg> at least I think he is
[19:31] <jbicha> hi, sorry for missing the beginning of the conversation
[19:31] <micahg> congrats hallyn
[19:31] <bdrung> [TOPIC] Creation of new desktop-extra package set
[19:31] <jbicha> http://git.gnome.org/browse/jhbuild/tree/modulesets
[19:31] <jbicha> we could use whatever is not in main from gnome-suites-core, gnome-suites-core-deps, and gnome-apps
[19:33] <bdrung> jbicha: does a script/tool exist to format the .modules file nicely for our usecase?
[19:34] <bdrung> micahg: ekiga is listed in gnome-apps
[19:35] <jbicha> I don't know what format you need it in, and I don't know if it comes in a simpler format
[19:35] <micahg> yeah, I see, I'm just wondering how related it is, but I guess that's fine
[19:36] <bdrung> a plain list of package instead of an xml file would be easier to read, but the xml is sufficient
[19:36] <jbicha> there's also http://git.gnome.org/browse/jhbuild/plain/modulesets/ but it's the same thing
[19:38] <bdrung> The description of desktop-extra would be then: "Every package that is NOT in ubuntu-desktop, but needed for a vanilla GNOME. Vanilla GNOME is defined by upstream in gnome-suites-core, gnome-suites-core-deps, and gnome-apps http://git.gnome.org/browse/jhbuild/tree/modulesets"
[19:38] <bdrung> this sound precise enough for me. thought?
[19:39] <bdrung> s/thought/thoughts/
[19:39] <jbicha> that's fine, how about "NOT in main" instead?
[19:39] <micahg> I wish I could see a textual list of those files before voting
[19:39] <micahg> yes, this would be a universe only packageset I think
[19:40] <stgraber> I also would like to see an actual list matching this criteria before voting. The description is fine to review additions afterwards though
[19:40] <stgraber> (especially as I'll likely be the one who needs to implement the package set, having a list makes it easier ;))
[19:40] <bdrung> the current list is posted here: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-desktop/2011-October/003374.html
[19:40] <jbicha> bdrung: that list wasn't compiled straight from the jhbuild list though
[19:41] <bdrung> we could decide on that list and modify it later using the package description
[19:41] <jbicha> I could make a list and email it to the DMB list
[19:42] <micahg> well, still, I'd prefer a textual list of those .module files before agreeing to use them as criteria for future additions
[19:42] <bdrung> jbicha: can i give you that action item?
[19:42] <jbicha> bdrung: yes
[19:43] <bdrung> jbicha: if you write a script, you could share that with us
[19:43] <bdrung> [ACTION] jbicha to create a list of packages from the .modules files
[19:43] <meetingology> ACTION: jbicha to create a list of packages from the .modules files
[19:44] <bdrung> then let's way with voting after getting the list
[19:44] <bdrung> [TOPIC] Herton Ronaldo Krzesinski's application for upload rights for linux-* packages.
[19:44] <herton> o/
[19:45] <bdrung> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HertonKrzesinski/PerPackageUploaderApplication
[19:45] <bdrung> herton: can you introduce yourself?
[19:45] <herton> I'm Herton R. Krzesinski, I work with ubuntu kernel stable team, looking at the stable updates, tracking regressions, etc.
[19:47] <herton> I'm doing a lot of stable updates lately, so it seemed a good thing to get upload rights, instead of bugging Steve Conklin or Brad Figg to sponsor them (they also work/worked on the stable kernel stuff)
[19:48] <sconklin> +1 - sponsoring Herton's uploads has become very boring in the last six months
[19:49] <bdrung> herton: are you involved in the community outside of the kernel area?
[19:51] <herton> not at the moment. I have been in UDS, talked with some people, but my are of expertise is more kernel, so I'm more interacting with community in the bug reports about it
[19:51] <micahg> herton: the earliest upload I see is at the beginning of June, is there evidence of earlier uploads?
[19:52] <bdrung> herton: you criticise the political structure inside the project. Does this criticism applies only for getting upload rights or are there other places, too?
[19:52] <herton> micahg: that sounds right, June is when I started pushing the ubuntu kernel updates
[19:54] <herton> bdrung: for a newcomer it's not very easy to understand everything at the start I think how to get involved, may be there is some improvements that could be done
[19:54] <micahg> herton: were you aware that we generally require 6 months of sustained contributions before granting upload rights?
[19:55] <bdrung> herton: did you started with contributing to the kernel package?
[19:56] <sconklin> Herton has been preparing kernels for longer than six months, and making contributions during that time. It's only that he's started actually doing uploads in the last 6 months
[19:57] <micahg> sconklin: in the Ubuntu kernel git tree?
[19:57] <sconklin> yes.
[19:57] <sconklin> looking for dates now
[19:57] <micahg> sconklin: I figured as much since he joined the team 10 months ago, but just wanted to be sure
[19:58] <micahg> er...9 months
[19:58] <cnd> micahg, I didn't know of any specific 6 months of work for PPU uploads
[19:58] <cnd> I thought that was for motu or more expansive sets
[19:58] <micahg> cnd: it's for membership in general not upload rights specifically
[19:59]  * micahg is worried bdrung's question got lost above
[19:59] <cnd> ok, maybe this is butting up against the ppu vs ubuntu membership thing mentioned last week
[19:59] <apw> i will point out that herton has been contributing to the kernle since 2009 though outside of ubuntu
[20:00] <bdrung> sconklin: do you have a link handy to one commit as prove?
[20:00] <herton> my first contribution to the ubuntu kernel was to bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/636091
[20:00] <tumbleweed> herton: I'm also interested in your comments about bureaucracy. I remember thinking that it was very bureaucratic before I got involved. But I can't remember quite where, and I wouldn't know what documentation needs changing
[20:00] <micahg> yep, noted in changelog for March
[20:01] <micahg> herton: thanks
[20:01] <sconklin> bdrung: no, I can't find it. Maybe I'm mistaken, but I can tell you he has contributed going back some time, as apw pointed out
[20:02] <bdrung> k
[20:02] <ogasawara> http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git?p=ubuntu/ubuntu-oneiric.git;a=commit;h=41d202d80e829c0a489119ad63d7ece08a9786da
[20:02] <ogasawara> ^^ he's actually been contributing since 2007
[20:02] <micahg> the bug that herton linked shows an upload where he was included in the changelog in March which IMHO is sufficient here
[20:03] <tgardner> commit 41d202d80e829c0a489119ad63d7ece08a9786da is July of 2007, the first of many
[20:03] <bdrung> herton: one of my questions got lost: did you start contributing to ubuntu by contributing to the kernel?
[20:03] <herton> tumbleweed: the wiki has a lot information scattered, it takes some time to read and understand all the membership process. May be a better description in one page of all memberships, a organization structure or picture could help
[20:03] <micahg> ogasawara: yes, but not to Ubuntu :), we were wondering about Ubuntu specific contributions
[20:03] <bdrung> e.g. can the bureaucracy come from the kernel package bureaucracy?
[20:04] <herton> bdrung: yes. In ubuntu I'm started contributing only with the kernel
[20:04] <tumbleweed> herton: yeah, we are planning on revamping that page
[20:05] <ogasawara> micahg: hrm, I'd consider a contribution to the upstream kernel a contribution to ubuntu as well since we do base all our bits on upstream
[20:05] <tumbleweed> ogasawara: sure, but that isn't related to Ubuntu membership
[20:06] <micahg> ogasawara: it's irrelevant in this case anyways, since he does have 6+ months of Ubuntu contribution
[20:06] <bdrung> ogasawara: contributing to an upstream project (here the kernel) doesn't grant you ubuntu membership
[20:07] <bdrung> i am wondering if we should have an other format for presenting the information than using a wiki
[20:08] <bdrung> a wiki tend to be not structured enough
[20:08] <geser> like?
[20:08] <tumbleweed> the packaging guide?
[20:09] <bdrung> that's the question.
[20:09] <stgraber> we're already past our allocated time for the DMB meeting, should we vote?
[20:09] <bdrung> k, let's vote.
[20:09] <bdrung> before vote: do we have a package set for the kernel?
[20:09] <apw> yes
[20:09] <micahg> http://people.canonical.com/~stgraber/package_sets/precise/kernel
[20:10] <stgraber> yes, we have a package set and associated team for the kernel
[20:10] <geser> IIRC they are the only one who can upload kernels (not sure if core-devs can do it or not)
[20:10] <stgraber> ouch, the uploaders part is a mess, yeah for LP bugs... /me goes to poke #launchpad to fix that one too
[20:11] <stgraber> geser: ubuntu-core-dev is part of ubuntu-kernel-uploaders
[20:11] <bdrung> [VOTE] Should Herton Ronaldo Krzesinski get upload rights for the kernel package set?
[20:11] <meetingology> Please vote on: Should Herton Ronaldo Krzesinski get upload rights for the kernel package set?
[20:11] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
[20:11] <geser> +1
[20:11] <meetingology> +1 received from geser
[20:11] <tumbleweed> +1
[20:11] <meetingology> +1 received from tumbleweed
[20:11] <stgraber> +1
[20:11] <meetingology> +1 received from stgraber
[20:12] <bdrung> +1
[20:12] <meetingology> +1 received from bdrung
[20:12] <micahg> +0 I'm reluctant to give a +1 w/out a dev release sponsored upload
[20:12] <meetingology> +0 I'm reluctant to give a +1 w/out a dev release sponsored upload received from micahg
[20:12] <bdrung> [ENDVOTE]
[20:12] <meetingology> Voting ended on: Should Herton Ronaldo Krzesinski get upload rights for the kernel package set?
[20:12] <meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:1
[20:12] <meetingology> Motion carried
[20:13] <bdrung> herton: congrats
[20:13] <herton> thanks!
[20:13] <bdrung> should we end this meeting now and defer the remaining application to the next meeting?
[20:14] <tumbleweed> micahg: in the case of kernel packages, that doesn't concern me too much
[20:15] <micahg> tumbleweed: if not for the dev release, why are upload rights required?  kernel packages go through a PPA anyways
[20:15] <bdrung> SRUs need more care than -dev uploads
[20:15] <micahg> indeed
[20:16] <bdrung> anyone not having time to process the last applicant?
[20:16]  * tumbleweed has time
[20:16] <Laney> I don't think you should be considering components for packagesets
[20:17] <micahg> Laney: in this case where it's shadowing a seed based packageset, it makes sense IMHO
[20:17] <stgraber> bdrung: yeah, I think I have time for one more
[20:17] <Laney> no, it makes sense in relation to the other set
[20:18] <bdrung> [TOPIC] Stephen M. Webb's application for upload rights for the uTouch package set
[20:19] <bdrung> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StephenMWebb/DeveloperApplication
[20:19] <bdrung> bregma: can you introduce yourself?
[20:19] <bregma> sure
[20:20] <bregma> I'm a software developer, a member of the uTouch team developing touch-based sofwtare for Ubuntu
[20:20] <bregma> I also occasionally fix other unrelated bugs, for Ubuntu and Debian
[20:21] <bregma> I have also spent the better part of a decade packaging all kinds of software for other Debian-based distros
[20:23] <micahg> bregma: what makes you want to join a "cabal of cliquish members"
[20:23] <bdrung> bregma: do you have a debian qa page?
[20:23] <bregma> micahg, cliques are only a problem when you're not a member
[20:25] <micahg> well, some would say that just their existence would be problematic which I think "cliques" is something we try to shy away from in Ubuntu
[20:25] <bdrung> bregma: are you active on the ubuntu devel irc channels?
[20:25] <bregma> bdrung, from time to time
[20:26] <bregma> I mean, I'm usually on the channel, but rarely can answer anything before someone better able can
[20:26] <jbicha> if Ubuntu development appears to be "a very closed cabal of cliquish members", then we're doing something very wrong
[20:27] <bregma> yes
[20:27] <bdrung> bregma: can you give an example in which the ubuntu development appeared as a "closed cabal of cliquish members"
[20:27] <bregma> but I wrote that on a day I was frustrated
[20:28] <bregma> well, I asked on #ubuntu-devel what the best format to submit a bug was
[20:28] <bregma> and the answer was "it doesn't matter" from several responses
[20:28] <bregma> so I submitted a merge request to the ubuntu source package
[20:29] <bregma> and the immediate response from a maintainer was 'we don't do things that way"
[20:29] <bregma> I guess I should have gone back to change my develop application when i was less annoyed but I got busy with UDS and I forgot
[20:29] <bdrung> some prefer patches and other merge proposals
[20:30] <tumbleweed> naah, it's good to shed light on problems, that's why that's in the t emplate
[20:30] <bregma> I understand, but it does not mean it' does not appear like a shibboleth
[20:30] <bdrung> it's important to talk about problem.
[20:30]  * tumbleweed is guessing desktop team (which uses non-UDD bzr branches, but plans to migrate, from what I heard at UDS)
[20:30] <bregma> the docs and wiki are stymying
[20:30] <micahg> debcheckout can be your friend sometimes :-/
[20:31] <tumbleweed> and probably an enemy too :P
[20:31] <tumbleweed> bregma: hrm, how didyou get an @ubuntu.com address without membership?
[20:31]  * ajmitch still gets confused as to the 'right' way to do things as well, it's not like you're alone in that
[20:32] <bregma> I've since seen all the changes proposed to the developer application process and other processes, so I realize it's just hard to know what's not easy to learn if you're already on the inside
[20:32] <bregma> tumbleweed, the guys at Canonical gave it to me, I assume so uploads don;t balk
[20:33] <bdrung> are there other problematic areas beside getting the correct format of your contribution?
[20:33] <bregma> just the problem of trying to figure out how the whole system works... I am not a fan of wikis for finding information
[20:34] <bregma> I didn;t intend to sound like a grouch or anything
[20:35] <bregma> but a lot of my experience with figuring out how things works ends up with a "well, you just gotta know"
[20:35] <bdrung> you are not the only one who finds wikis sub-optimal for presenting information
[20:35] <micahg> bregma: any address is fine for a changelog entry (ubuntu.com preferred once earned)
[20:36] <bregma> as a long-time Unix developer, I'm used to having to know what the command is before I can find which command to use, c'est la vie
[20:36] <cnd> micahg, it's a lintian warning if it's not @ubuntu.com, IIRC
[20:36] <micahg> cnd: only if DEBEMAIL is set to an ubuntu dot come address
[20:36] <micahg> oops..ubuntu.com
[20:37] <cnd> hmm? DEBEMAIL is used for the changelog entry
[20:37] <bdrung> yes if you use dch
[20:37] <bregma> I do not believe I've used my ubuntu.com mail address for anything except mailing list subscriptions any way
[20:37] <bdrung> every question asked?
[20:38] <tumbleweed> bregma: I see you've touched packages outside the packageset you are applying for
[20:38] <tumbleweed> are you intending to apply for MOTU at some point?
[20:38] <bregma> some day
[20:38] <micahg> bregma: is there a reason you've only had one sponsor and therefore one endoresement?
[20:39] <micahg> *for the utouch stuff at least
[20:39] <tumbleweed> micahg: I've sponsored uploads for bregma too
[20:39] <micahg> tumbleweed: yes, but you haven't commented on the APP
[20:39] <micahg> even as a character witness
[20:39]  * tumbleweed tends to comment when asked. I was replying to "one sponsor"
[20:39] <cnd> micahg, for the utouch package set, the number of people available to sponsor is small
[20:40] <micahg> cnd: core devs can sponsor as can MOTUs depending on the package
[20:40] <bregma> I've had several sponsors, I just feel really uncomfortable asking for an endorsement
[20:40] <cnd> yes, I understand, it just seems like the criteria should be lower for ppu
[20:41] <bregma> there's room in Ubuntu for the less social, too
[20:41] <tumbleweed> heh
[20:41] <cnd> tbh, I'm tired of sponsoring bregma's uploads :)
[20:41] <cnd> he's quite capable
[20:42] <micahg> indeed, for one package I might agree, but for a set, I would think that there should be multiple people reviewing their work before agreeing
[20:42]  * tumbleweed sees that he had no problem's with bregma's uploads either (2 sponsorships). They were in perfect shape
[20:42] <tumbleweed> but I wouldn't endorse from two uploads
[20:42] <cnd> there's only one person who uploads utouch packages outside of abnormal cases
[20:42] <bdrung> tumbleweed: even for a package set?
[20:43] <micahg> bregma: right, but part of uploading is knowing when to ask others and being able to ask others is important
[20:43] <cnd> and that person endorses bregma to add to the pool :)
[20:45] <tumbleweed> bdrung: yeah, I'd probably have left a comment
[20:45] <bdrung> are we are ready to vote or do we need more time to discuss this topic?
[20:45] <tumbleweed> ready
[20:45]  * stgraber too
[20:45] <micahg> ready
[20:46] <bdrung> [VOTE] Should Stephen M. Webb get upload rights for the uTouch package set?
[20:46] <meetingology> Please vote on: Should Stephen M. Webb get upload rights for the uTouch package set?
[20:46] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
[20:47] <tumbleweed> +1
[20:47] <meetingology> +1 received from tumbleweed
[20:48] <bdrung> +1 but more than one endorsement would be better
[20:48] <meetingology> +1 but more than one endorsement would be better received from bdrung
[20:48] <stgraber> +1
[20:48] <meetingology> +1 received from stgraber
[20:48] <geser> +1
[20:48] <meetingology> +1 received from geser
[20:48] <micahg> +0 the work itself seems fine and there have been no quick uploads subsequently to fix issues, but I'm concerned about communication with others, it's not just about being social, but about peer review as well, even comments by other sponsors would have been helpful
[20:48] <meetingology> +0 the work itself seems fine and there have been no quick uploads subsequently to fix issues, but I'm concerned about communication with others, it's not just about being social, but about peer review as well, even comments by other sponsors would have been helpful received from micahg
[20:49] <bdrung> [ENDVOTE]
[20:49] <meetingology> Voting ended on: Should Stephen M. Webb get upload rights for the uTouch package set?
[20:49] <meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:1
[20:49] <meetingology> Motion carried
[20:49] <bdrung> bregma: congrats.
[20:49] <micahg> bregma: congrats
[20:49] <cnd> thanks all!
[20:50] <bdrung> bregma: for your next application i recommend to take micahg's voting comment to heart
[20:50] <bregma> thank you
[20:50] <bdrung> #endmeeting
[20:50] <meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Nov  7 20:50:24 2011 UTC.
[20:50] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-11-07-19.03.moin.txt
[20:50] <tumbleweed> welcome to the clique (hopefully) :)
[20:50] <tumbleweed> next chair?
[20:51] <bdrung> ups
[20:51] <micahg> alphabetical order :)
[20:51] <micahg> cody-somerville: wins
[20:51] <tumbleweed> I guess we also need to get some of our UDS discussion points into the agenda