[04:29] <Chauncellor> would someone be kind enough to point me to directions on reporting a needs-packaging bug? I can't for the life of me find any instruction
[04:30] <micahg> Chauncellor: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages/ExamplePackageRequest
[04:31] <Chauncellor> micahg, thanks. Sorry, I truly had been looking around. Will remember this.... Thank you!
[05:32] <greg-g> bdmurray: hggdh: mind extending my membership in ubuntu-bugcontrol? Thanks! :)
[05:58] <v1z__> u guys are aware of https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/scilab/+bug/876195
[05:58] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 876195 in scilab (Ubuntu) "scilab graphics doesn't work in Oneiric (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New]
[05:58] <bkerensa> Proxy Settings dont work on 11.10
[05:58] <v1z__> very grave bug..
[05:59] <v1z__> If theres anything I can do to help out
[05:59] <v1z__> it seems to be related to libgl1-mesa
[05:59] <v1z__> the scilab package is basically broken
[06:00] <v1z__> in 11.10
[07:03] <bkerensa> Update Manager is not providing changelog info for any updates
[07:51] <perscitus> When ubuntu crashes, she crashes hard
[08:02] <perscitus> Anyone see this bug? https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/TrcdMvUyIN4o2-nA1OJXhw?feat=directlink
[08:05] <AlexzAK> Hi all! Can anyone test my bug #877191?
[08:05] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 877191 in indicator-appmenu (Ubuntu) "Unity 2d shows Aptana Studio 3 main menu incorrect (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/877191
[08:05] <AlexzAK> I'll need latest kate, unity 2d and 11.10...
[10:52] <jibel> mvo, I've seen a couple of bugs where the upgrade to oneiric fails because nspluginwrapper fails to upgrade on amd64
[10:52] <jibel> mvo, eg bug 874625
[10:52] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 874625 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "Update from 11.04 to 11.10 fails (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/874625
[10:52] <jibel> mvo, bug 874713
[10:52] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 874713 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "Could not calculate the upgrade 11.04 to 11.10 (affects: 2) (heat: 12)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/874713
[10:53] <jibel> mvo, I can't figure what's wrong and how to reproduce it, any idea?
[10:53] <jibel> looks like a multiarch issue somewhere
[11:01] <jibel> mvo, and also bug 877194 is uncommon.
[11:01] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 877194 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "do-release-upgrade in console to oneric fails: SystemError: E:Could not perform immediate configuration on 'multiarch-support'. Please see man 5 apt.conf under APT::Immediate-Configure for details. (2) (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/877194
[11:06] <cdavis> I assisted with bug 876699 and turned out to be a configuration issue. Do I mark this as invalid?
[11:06] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 876699 in totem (Ubuntu) "totem "Could not determine type of stream" (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/876699
[11:11] <iceroot> cdavis: yes, please post to the bug that it is a configuration issue (maye also what is the correct configuration) and then mark the bug as invalid
[11:13] <AlexzAK> Can anyone try to reproduce me bug #877191? You'll need kate+unity2d+11.10
[11:13] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 877191 in indicator-appmenu (Ubuntu) "Unity 2d shows Aptana Studio 3 main menu incorrect (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/877191
[11:13] <mvo> jibel: bug #877194 is common or uncommon?
[11:13] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 877194 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "do-release-upgrade in console to oneric fails: SystemError: E:Could not perform immediate configuration on 'multiarch-support'. Please see man 5 apt.conf under APT::Immediate-Configure for details. (2) (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/877194
[11:14] <mvo> jibel: I check the other one about nspluginwrapper/downloader now
[11:14] <cdavis> iceroot: Will do and thanks for your help.
[11:15] <jibel> mvo, uncommon. I found only one occurrence.
[11:18] <mvo> ok, great
[12:04] <jibel> mvo, it looks like something pulled libcups2:i386 and  libgtk2.0-0:i386 on amd64 systems which in turn blocks the upgrade of ia32libs and nspluginwrapper as a consequence
[12:05] <penguin42> I think the answer on OO is to remove ia32-libs
[12:06] <mvo> jibel: I traced one of the issues down to "libcupsys2" being installed still on the system
[12:07] <mvo> jibel: that caused issues, removing that fixed it
[12:07] <mvo> jibel: I meant to debug it monday, but then a high profile issue keep me occupied all day monday and most of today :/
[12:13] <jibel> mvo, yep, I tracked it down to the same package on 4 different reports. I think it's there because users try to install i386 printer drivers on amd64.
[12:14] <mvo> jibel: oh, thats interessting!
[12:51] <penguin42> talking of printing, I heard there is a known kernel printing bug - which bug number is it, and what should merge with it
[13:29] <iceroot> what steps ae needed that a package from "proposed" is going into the main-repos? is it time-based? must someone do a test of it?
[13:41] <yofel> iceroot: it has to be tested and the tag changed to verification done, and at least a week must have passed
[13:49] <iceroot> yofel: ah who can test it and change the status? everyone?
[13:50] <iceroot> so for some learning/supporting i can search all bugs which have an upload pending in proposed and give feedback about it? or is this useless because someone from canocial/dev-team has to do it?
[13:53] <hggdh> iceroot: you can test and *tag* it, either verification-done or verification-failed
[13:54] <iceroot> hggdh: great, now i know what i will do the next days :)
[13:54] <hggdh> iceroot: all packages in -proposed are waiting to be tested
[13:54] <iceroot> so the best would be to enable proposed, use apt-pinning so that nothing is installed from that repo and use explicit commands to install something from there?
[13:55] <hggdh> yes, this is a way indeed
[13:55] <iceroot> any other usefull ways?
[14:10] <hggdh> iceroot: this is good enough; another way would be to explicitly download the packages from the archive (by going to the /pool/ directory
[16:20] <lilrubyprog> Hey
[16:25] <greg-g> hi
[16:27] <lilrubyprog> What's up?
[16:28] <ikt> nm you lilrubyprog :)
[16:29] <lilrubyprog> Same same =)
[16:29] <ikt> a little bug fixing here, a little bug triage there :D
[16:30] <lilrubyprog> Nice
[16:32] <lilrubyprog> How would I help?
[16:34] <ikt> lilrubyprog: bug triage?
[16:34] <lilrubyprog> yea
[16:36] <ikt> the bugsquad wiki i'd say
[16:36] <ikt> has a jillion articles in it
[16:36] <ikt> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/KnowledgeBase
[16:36] <ikt> also got a g+ ?
[16:40] <ikt> lilrubyprog: any luck?
[16:41] <lilrubyprog> Oh, I haven't checked yet sorry
[16:46] <ikt> :M
[16:46] <ikt> :<&
[16:47] <lilrubyprog> lol
[22:49] <sroecker> hi, can someone check bug 877791?
[22:49] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 877791 in appmenu-qt (Ubuntu) "appmenu crashes on AppMenuPlatformMenuBar::setAltPressed (affects: 14) (dups: 3) (heat: 44)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/877791
[22:51]  * penguin42 looks
[22:54] <sroecker> I've never programmed with qt but the workaround let's me use calibre again
[22:55]  * penguin42 hasn't done qt either - but the backtraces in the other bugs look consistent
[22:55] <penguin42> sroecker: I suppose the question is whether m_exporter should be null and that routine being called
[22:56] <penguin42> i.e. are you curing the cause or the symptom
[22:59] <sroecker> penguin42: True, just wanted to make sure someone with qt knowledge can fix this bug now, i.e I reported it correctly
[22:59] <penguin42> sroecker: You certainly have, and they always like a fix!
[23:00]  * penguin42 has just poked ubuntu-dev to see if there are any Qt people around and suggested it's appropriate for an update
[23:01] <sroecker> penguin42: thanks
[23:01] <penguin42> no problem
[23:08] <taowa> how do i access bugs that i filed
[23:10] <ashams> taowa:  go here: https://launchpad.net/~/+reportedbugs
[23:10] <arand> Is it not listed in the bugs section in your LP profile?


[20:02] <thomi> hey barry, how's it going?
[20:17] <barry> thomi: hiya!  good, and you?
[20:17] <thomi> barry: excellent - just got back from Kiwi PyCon, which was awesome
[20:17] <thomi> met Nick Coghlan, who I assume you know
[20:18] <barry> yep! :)  glad it was fun
[20:18] <thomi> I also realise I've completely missed the submission deadline for pycon US as well :(
[20:18] <thomi> ahh well
[20:19] <barry> thomi: um, i think today (it's still monday here in us/eastern) is the deadline.  i got two submissions in late last week, but i think you could probably get them in now
[20:19] <thomi> barry: yeah, but I have nothing prepared, and they want a lot of information
[20:19] <thomi> but... maybe I should cram today and sort something out
[20:20] <barry> thomi: i pulled something out of my ass in about an hour :)
[20:20] <thomi> heh
[20:20] <barry> yeah, definitely go for it
[20:21] <barry> thomi: i submitted one on packaging for debian, and another on python dbus
[20:21] <thomi> wow... feeling masochistic huh?
[20:21] <thomi> python dbus
[20:21] <thomi> .... needs to die
[20:22] <barry> yeah, i definitely know more about it than i should admit to in public
[20:22] <thomi> heh
[20:22] <thomi> I was thinking of submitting something outlining the 'Robert Collins' testing stack: testtools, subunit, testscenarios, testr.... and why it rocks. What do you think?
[20:23] <thomi> *or* I could recycle the autopilot talk I gave at KPC last year
[20:23] <barry> i like them both.  once you do one, it's easy to submit another.  doesn't have to be perfect afaict
[20:23] <thomi> cool
[20:23] <thomi> will do that today then
[20:23] <thomi> anway, I wanted to ask you...
[20:24] <thomi> *anyway
[20:24] <thomi> I want to get trv (launchpad.net/trv) into Ubuntu and *maybe* Debian - I think I should start acting like a 'proper' upstream - i.e.- doing real upstream release tarballs, without an embedded debian/ dir
[20:24] <thomi> I've started by separating my packaging branch out from trunk
[20:25] <thomi> but now I'm wondering: what's the best place to put a pure-python application release? Pypi doesn't seem like a great fit (since it's an app)... launchpad? somewhere else?
[20:26] <barry> there are applications on pypi (gtimelog comes to mind), so it's not crazy.  lp is certainly appropriate too
[20:26] <thomi> and I guess, since I'm packaging for debian I can't upload a universal wheel, right?
[20:26] <barry> you could of course upload the wheel to pypi, but no, we strictly limit the wheels allowed in debian
[20:30] <thomi> oh, in case you're interested - photos from the weekend: https://secure.flickr.com/photos/4nitsirk/sets/72157647422343846
[20:34] <barry> hmm, i think the secure bit is messing with me.  guess i have to log in :/
[20:51] <cgoldberg> thomi, there's plenty of apps on PyPI.. not just libraries.... I think that's the appropriate place to upload pure-python packages.  It also makes pip install hella easy
[20:51] <thomi> ok
[23:28] <thomi> barry: two talks submitted. Now I need to keep my fingers crossed for a while I guess :)
[23:29] <thomi> barry: or, maybe find someone who's plugged into the paper reviewers to give my talk submissions some extra mojo *winks*
[23:37] <barry> +1!


[04:28] <godbyk> Fresh builds are up at http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/.
[05:11] <humphreybc> http://twitpic.com/1w0ni3/full
[05:16] <godbyk> nice
[05:16] <godbyk> maybe offer some common destinations, too. (in addition to your search box note)
[05:17] <humphreybc> I was going to, but then I realised there are big fat links up above, and below
[05:17] <humphreybc> I'll keep thinking about it
[05:17] <godbyk> yeah, I considered that, too.
[05:18] <godbyk> ideally, I'd like it to analyze the url you're trying to get to and figure out where you're trying to go and link you there.
[05:18] <godbyk> (easier said than done.)
[05:18] <humphreybc> haha
[09:05] <ubuntujenkins> morning
[09:09] <thorwil> morning!
[09:09] <ubuntujenkins> hey thorwil o/
[09:11] <thorwil> hmm, i will have only a few minutes at the start of today's meeting
[09:13] <ubuntujenkins> I will be busy revising and not pay loads of attention
[10:33] <ubuntujenkins> c7p: how is the release of your translation going?
[10:35] <c7p> ubuntujenkins: godbyk is working on the tex files, checking that everything is fine in there. In the same time he is making a list of everything that needs to be done before the release of a translated edition.
[10:36] <c7p> I'm waiting today's meeting to learn the actual date :)
[10:37] <ubuntujenkins> yea i have the link to the list of stuff. I am hoping to give godbyk  a hand with some of the next ones as I think we will have 4 at once soon
[10:38] <c7p> ubuntujenkins: are you working going to work on this link: http://typewith.me/rE4pCABOXs or another ?
[10:40] <ubuntujenkins> I do have that link I am going to try and speak with godby-k about what needs doing etc.
[10:41] <c7p> ok if you need another hand I can always help ;)
[10:41] <ubuntujenkins> cool I will let you know
[10:41] <c7p> nice
[11:30] <dns53> is there a server edition of the manual being worked on?
[11:30] <ubuntujenkins> no there is not I am afraid
[11:31] <ubuntujenkins> dns53: this might be of interest https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-docs/+bug/497834
[11:31] <manualbot> Launchpad bug 497834 in ubuntu-docs "Ubuntu Server Guide isn't aesthetically appealing." [Wishlist,Confirmed]
[11:31] <ubuntujenkins> also the current server guide is https://help.ubuntu.com/10.04/serverguide/C/index.html
[11:34] <dns53> thx
[11:35] <ubuntujenkins> no problem :)
[16:01] <ubuntujenkins> godbyk / godbyk-sagan ping
[18:26] <godbyk-sagan> ubuntujenkins: I just got back home. Let me fix something for lunch and then I'll be right with you.
[18:27] <ubuntujenkins> godbyk-sagan: cool no rush
[18:29] <dutchie> godbyk-sagan: btw, you going down in RSA
[18:29] <dutchie> :P
[18:29] <ubuntujenkins> ras?
[18:29] <dutchie> Republic of South Africa ;)
[18:29] <ubuntujenkins> o yea your going down godbyk-sagan :P
[18:30] <ubuntujenkins> \join #england
[18:38] <godbyk> Uh-oh, what'd I do to the South Africans now?
[18:38] <ubuntujenkins> usa vs england in the world cup
[18:38] <godbyk> Aha
[18:39] <godbyk> So you're talking about soccer? <evil grin>
[18:39] <dutchie> no, real football
[18:39] <dutchie> where you actually use your foot
[18:39] <ubuntujenkins> no we are talking about football :P
[18:40] <Zeike> they are talking about watching silly people run around a grass field kicking a ball around =P
[18:47] <ubuntujenkins> godbyk I would like to discuss the process that the manual goes through after the translations are complete and what i can do to help.
[18:48] <ubuntujenkins> when you have finished eating :)
[19:29] <godbyk> Hey, ubuntujenkins. I'm back now.
[19:31] <ubuntujenkins> hey godbyk
[19:32] <godbyk> So I don't have a formal checklist yet. It's something that c7p and I have been taking notes on as we go along.
[19:32] <godbyk> But we should create an actual checklist so we don't forget things.
[19:32] <ubuntujenkins> cool I have the check list book marked.
[19:33] <ubuntujenkins> is \ldots with a lower case l or i becasue in launchpad they look the same
[19:33] <dutchie> l for line
[19:33] <godbyk> It's a lowercase L.
[19:33] <ubuntujenkins> thats what i thought allot of people are putting i
[19:33] <godbyk> Yeah, they're wrong. :)
[19:34] <dutchie> right
[19:34] <dutchie> i'm watching the football
[19:34] <ubuntujenkins> hmm the pad link i have does not work
[19:34] <dutchie> bye
[19:34] <ubuntujenkins> bye dutchie
[19:34] <godbyk> See ya, dutchie.
[19:34] <dutchie> 1-0 england \o/
[19:34] <dutchie> within 4 mins
[19:34] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: Let me find my link to it again.
[19:35] <ubuntujenkins> also the first {} in \newglossaryentry is often translated
[19:35] <godbyk> Yeah, it shouldn't be.
[19:35] <godbyk> Nor should the \gls and \glspl commands be translated.
[19:36] <ubuntujenkins> I think those are the most commom mistakes that are not on the list already
[19:36] <godbyk> Nor should the \label, \ref, pageref, \chaplink, \seclink, etc. commands be translated.
[19:36] <ubuntujenkins> can we add it to the pad?
[19:36] <godbyk> Sure, if you like.
[19:36] <godbyk> Do you have the pad link?
[19:37] <ubuntujenkins> I do but it doesn't work
[19:37] <ubuntujenkins> http://www.typewith.me/rE4pCABOXs
[19:38] <ubuntujenkins> acording to http://downorisitjustme.com/ the site is down
[19:38] <godbyk> nice.
[19:38] <godbyk> I thought I had one on Etherpad, but perhaps not.
[19:39] <ubuntujenkins> do you have a local copy?
[19:39] <godbyk> Nope.
[19:39] <godbyk> Let's just create a new one.
[19:39] <godbyk> We can update it with typewith.me comes back online.
[19:40] <ubuntujenkins> yea cool , so apart from that list what else gets done.
[19:40] <ubuntujenkins> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/translationtodo
[19:53] <ubuntujenkins> that list looks good
[19:53] <godbyk> That covers a lot of it.
[19:53] <godbyk> I'm sure I'll add more things as I encounter them.
[19:54] <godbyk> It'd be nice if we have a web page where the translator editors could go to see where they're at on the checklist or something.
[19:54] <godbyk> So we can see how far along things are.
[19:54] <ubuntujenkins> good idea we need to respond to surst's e-mail about the german on
[19:56] <godbyk> I'll email him right now.
[19:56] <ubuntujenkins> cool, I am just looking for stuff I don't know how to do in latex
[19:57] <ubuntujenkins> how do you change the paper size?
[19:57] <ubuntujenkins> I will be back in 5 to 10 mins
[19:57] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: the paper size gets changed automatically based on the language.
[19:58] <godbyk> (if it doesn't, then I need to edit the .cls file to set it properly.)
[20:02] <godbyk> Okay, email sent.
[20:07] <ubuntujenkins> cool as far as the small caps formating where would that be changed?
[20:08] <godbyk> Well, it depends.
[20:08] <godbyk> So with the German translation, for instance, he wanted the running heads to be different.
[20:09] <godbyk> With other translations, we have to use fonts that don't have small-caps.
[20:09] <godbyk> So it depends on the situation.
[20:09] <ubuntujenkins> running heads being ....
[20:09] <ubuntujenkins> to ask a silly question :)
[20:09] <godbyk> Running heads are the bits at the top of the page with the page number and the book title and chapter title.
[20:09] <godbyk> Nope, it's not a silly question at all.  I'm guessing the vast majority of the people in the world have absolutely no idea what a running head is. :)
[20:09] <ubuntujenkins> ok cool
[20:10] <ubuntujenkins> whilst i don't forget shrini asked me to ask you about the japanise caracters on the side of evince they should be tamil
[20:11] <godbyk> Uh...
[20:11] <godbyk> No clue on that one.
[20:11] <ubuntujenkins> I had no clue where to look at all
[20:11] <ubuntujenkins> o we will have to look into it
[20:11] <godbyk> I'll have to ask him when I see him next.
[20:12] <godbyk> I'm not sure where Japanese characters would be coming from.
[20:12] <ubuntujenkins> if you look at it its really obvious that they are not tamil
[20:12] <godbyk> So previously, I was building 2 PDFs at a time when I built all the translations.
[20:12] <godbyk> When my new computer I'm doing 8 at a time. It's a lot faster. :)
[20:12] <ubuntujenkins> eight what are your specs?
[20:13] <thorwil> way more people have an idea of a running nose than of a running head
[20:13] <godbyk> Where am I looking for the Japanese characters, ubuntujenkins?
[20:13] <godbyk> thorwil: I bet!
[20:14] <godbyk> thorwil: It looks like we may have to whip up a Tamil title page soon.
[20:14] <ubuntujenkins> godbyk: on the index pain of evince
[20:14] <godbyk> thorwil: After I find a font that isn't horrible.
[20:14] <godbyk> (Not many Tamil fonts out there, it seems.)
[20:15] <godbyk> I just grabbed the Tamil PDF from the builds page.  And the index pane on mine (which shows the chapters, etc.) has Tamil and English text there.
[20:15] <thorwil> godbyk: oh, Tamil has been very low of my list based on a snapshot of translations status way back
[20:15] <godbyk> thorwil: I know.  They spiked up this past week.  A lot!
[20:16] <ubuntujenkins> ok then its an issue with ones built on my computer, the tamil text works but not the index appantly
[20:16] <godbyk> They're in 7th place right now.
[20:16] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: Oh, that could be. I'm not building the index right now.
[20:17] <ubuntujenkins> godbyk: I need to redo the index rules they work but they way I did it is not 100% the correct way. I need to get my exam on tuesday out the way first
[20:17] <godbyk> No worries.
[20:18] <godbyk> We should write up instructions for ourselves on how to do the indexing, too.
[20:18] <godbyk> We'll also need to take a look at hyphenation patterns.
[20:18] <ubuntujenkins> they are really easy once you know how. I will do instructions. A lot depends on the language.
[20:18] <ubuntujenkins> hyphenation patterns in what sense?
[20:18] <godbyk> If they're not in LaTeX already, I think we can steal them from OpenOffice.org.
[20:19] <godbyk> Hyphenation patterns tell LaTeX where it's okay to break a word at the end of the line (hyphenate it).
[20:19] <ubuntujenkins> http://ubuntuone.com/p/6kf/ is tamil built on my computer .
[20:19] <godbyk> Without being able to hyphenate words, the spacing isn't nearly as good (lines run too long or too short).
[20:19] <ubuntujenkins> ok that make sense
[20:20] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: weird.  yeah, something barfed there. we'll have to look into it.
[20:20] <ubuntujenkins> once i get the index correct then we know its not that
[20:20] <godbyk> right
[20:20] <ubuntujenkins> also there is a two page gap before the index
[20:21] <godbyk> Yeah, I recall having to fix that manually with the English edition, too.
[20:21] <godbyk> Let's add that to the checklist.
[20:21] <thorwil> godbyk: regarding hyphenation, seen http://code.google.com/p/hyphenator/ ?
[20:22] <godbyk> thorwil: Cool!
[20:22] <godbyk> I think browsers should have built-in hyphenation (and CSS should support H&J rules)
[20:23] <thorwil> godbyk: that's what i have been thinking, too. but what can you expect from people who think it's alright to draw underlines right through descenders? ;)
[20:24] <thorwil> godbyk: seeing how adding lots of  the hard way is not practical at all, this script is the best available solution
[20:25] <godbyk> I s'pose.  It just seems like they're coming at it from the wrong direction.
[20:25] <godbyk> Hyphenation shouldn't be some post-hoc decoration, y'know?
[20:29] <thorwil> no doubt browsers doing it themselves would beat this
[20:29] <thorwil> but it is a relief to see this in action. text on the web starts to suck less quite a bit :)
[20:29] <godbyk> Hey, thorwil, you have a nice, large collection of typefaces, right?
[20:29] <godbyk> Definitely.
[20:30] <ubuntujenkins> ok thanks godbyk I think i can help translators with most of the list
[20:30] <thorwil> godbyk: not here on my lucid install
[20:30] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: cool.  If there are things you can't help with let me know and I'll try to teach you.
[20:30] <godbyk> It's always best if multiple people know how something works.
[20:30] <godbyk> thorwil: Ah, bummer. I wrote a script that scans the fonts on your system and lists all of the fonts that support a particular script.
[20:30] <godbyk> Was hoping you had a nice Tamil font that I didn't have.
[20:31] <godbyk> I'm not terribly thrilled with the one we're using right now.
[20:31] <ubuntujenkins> godbyk:  I would like to learn as well :) . with item 10 where do the translated items go in the .tex file?
[20:31] <ubuntujenkins> I find tamil looks better if you increase the font size
[20:31] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: They go in the um-LANGUAGE.clo file.
[20:31] <thorwil> godbyk: if the "on your system" can be stretched a bit, i could check the font dir on my other partition
[20:31] <ubuntujenkins> I have to in gedit when working with it for the index
[20:31] <godbyk> (I need to update the um-template.clo file to be more comprehensive.)
[20:31] <ubuntujenkins> thanks godbyk
[20:32] <godbyk> thorwil: Sure. You just edit the file and change the list of paths it searches.
[20:32] <godbyk> thorwil: I'll email it to you.
[20:33] <ubuntujenkins> I ment to send a meeting reminder to the list and sent it to ben!
[20:34] <godbyk> lol
[20:34] <godbyk> he probably needs one, too! :)
[20:35] <c7p> godbyk the list that we are working on is http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/translationtodo ?
[20:35] <godbyk> c7p: At the moment.  Your site was down, so we started recreating the list.
[20:35] <ubuntujenkins> I wondered why the mail wasn't on the list sent it now
[20:37] <c7p> who is chairing the meeting ?
[20:37] <ubuntujenkins> ben i guess
[20:37] <godbyk> If he shows up. :)
[20:37] <ubuntujenkins> :)
[20:39]  * ubuntujenkins learns more about three phase generators
[20:52] <shrini> team: do we have any meeting now?
[20:52] <ubuntujenkins> in 8 mins shrini
[20:52] <shrini> ubuntujenkins: thanks
[20:52] <dutchie> oh no
[20:52] <dutchie> can we delay it half an hour or so?
[20:52] <ubuntujenkins> what dutchie ?
[20:53] <ubuntujenkins> the football is not that important
[20:53] <dutchie> i can't watch the match and do a meeting at the same time
[20:53] <dutchie> ubuntujenkins: USA equalised :(
[20:53] <dutchie> nearly took the lead just then
[20:53] <ubuntujenkins> put it on head phones I am listening as i have no tv licence
[20:53] <ubuntujenkins> raido 5 :)
[20:54] <dutchie> probably better than the ITV coverage
[20:54] <dutchie> their HD channel went to adverts for the first goal
[20:54] <ubuntujenkins> what that sucks
[20:54] <godbyk> Look, you know we're going to win, so you probably don't really want to watch anyway.
[20:55] <dutchie> you stick to playing sports that nobody else bothers with
[20:55] <ubuntujenkins> lol
[20:55] <godbyk> You couldn't handle real football. :)
[20:55] <dutchie> i have actually played american football
[20:56] <dutchie> so :P
[20:56] <ubuntujenkins> yes we could a real footbal os round
[20:56] <ubuntujenkins> *is
[20:56] <godbyk> dutchie: Just once, eh?   So I don't pay any attention to them.
[20:57] <ubuntujenkins> I have only really palyed rugby which is much better as there is no padding
[20:57] <dutchie> not a massive fan of playing rugby
[20:58] <ubuntujenkins> I don't play it much
[20:58] <dutchie> aren't you obligated to play sport at loughborough anyway? ;)
[20:58] <ubuntujenkins> no, only if you do a course that is sport
[20:59] <ubuntujenkins> loughbrough is good at engineering as well
[21:00]  * dutchie wonders what godbyk's attempt at pronouncing "loughborough" is like
[21:00] <ubuntujenkins> minutes for people to read whilst we wait https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/Meetings
[21:01] <ubuntujenkins> I ment agenda
[21:01] <godbyk> I saw your previous discussions on the 'proper' pronunciation.
[21:01] <flan> Hi.
[21:01] <semioticrobotic> greetings
[21:01] <godbyk> Hey, guys.
[21:01]  * flan needs to stop getting distracted.
[21:01] <c7p> hi
[21:02] <dutchie> godbyk: bet you can't pronounce my city
[21:02] <ubuntujenkins> hello everyone
[21:02] <ubuntujenkins> hmm no ben yet
[21:02] <godbyk> Well, shall we get started or wait for more stragglers?
[21:02] <flan> I'm gonna start beinging my Eee with me on the train.
[21:03] <semioticrobotic> godbyk: Are we missing anyone you'r expecting (besides benjamin)?
[21:04] <thorwil> godbyk: i'm about to disappear, actually
[21:04] <ubuntujenkins> semioticrobotic: also ilya
[21:04] <godbyk> I'm not sure if Ilya was planning to be here or not.
[21:04] <godbyk> We'll get started then.
[21:04] <semioticrobotic> ubuntujenkins: Ah!  Yes, of course.
[21:04] <godbyk> I may go through the agenda in a different order in case Ilya or Ben pops in late.
[21:04] <ubuntujenkins> yea we should get started
[21:05] <semioticrobotic> good plan
[21:05] <godbyk> Okay, so first up, let's talk about the Lucid first edition translations.
[21:05] <ubuntujenkins> don't for get the meeting bot
[21:05] <godbyk> As you can see from here: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual
[21:05] <godbyk> a number of translations have been completed.
[21:05] <godbyk> Many of them are currently in the editing/proofreading phase.
[21:06] <godbyk> I think the German and Greek translations have progressed just beyond that.
[21:06] <dutchie> godbyk: not going to do a #startmeeting?
[21:06] <ubuntujenkins> well done to the translators
[21:06] <godbyk> #startmeeting
[21:06] <MootBot> Meeting started at 15:06. The chair is godbyk.
[21:06] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[21:06] <godbyk> just for dutchie
[21:06] <dutchie> \o/
[21:06] <semioticrobotic> agreed.  well done translation teams!
[21:06] <godbyk> [TOPIC] Lucid first-edition translations
[21:06] <MootBot> New Topic:  Lucid first-edition translations
[21:07] <godbyk> So with the help of c7p and ubuntujenkins, we have a rough check-list of items that need to be completed for each translation:  http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/translationtodo
[21:07] <godbyk> We will probably continue adding to this as we encounter new issues.
[21:08] <godbyk> Each translation team has an assigned translation editor: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/TranslationEditors
[21:08] <godbyk> The translation editor is in charge of communicating with the rest of the Ubuntu Manual team to ensure that each of the steps on that checklist is completed
[21:08] <thorwil> godbyk: maybe mention the lulu cover, too?
[21:09] <godbyk> and will have the final say on when we publish that translation.
[21:09] <godbyk> thorwil: Good idea. Add that in there someplace.
[21:09] <semioticrobotic> gotcha
[21:09] <ubuntujenkins> can people add irc nicks in another column to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/TranslationEditors
[21:09] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: sure.
[21:09] <ChrisWoollard> Hello All, Sorry I am late.
[21:09] <godbyk> Does anyone have any questions about the general process for releasing the first edition translations?
[21:10] <godbyk> Hey, ChrisWoollard. No worries. We're just getting started.
[21:10] <ChrisWoollard> :)
[21:10] <godbyk> Okay, if there's nothing else to add, we'll move on to the next topic.
[21:11] <godbyk> [TOPIC] Lucid second edition release schedule
[21:11] <MootBot> New Topic:  Lucid second edition release schedule
[21:11] <godbyk> Currently, the release date for the second edition of the Lucid manual is 29 July.
[21:11] <dutchie> (5 days after my birthday \o/)
[21:11] <dutchie> aha
[21:11] <godbyk> We don't have any particular alpha/beta/etc. release dates scheduled, but we can add them in if we feel the need.
[21:12] <semioticrobotic> ok
[21:12] <humphreybc-mini> hi
[21:12] <godbyk> The second edition will contain all the bug fixes and last minute material that we didn't have time to clean up for the first edition.
[21:12] <godbyk> Hey, humphreybc-mini.
[21:12] <semioticrobotic> hi humphreybc-mini
[21:12] <godbyk> I think we've fixed a pretty large number of bugs in the second edition already.
[21:12] <godbyk> But we should continue doing read-throughs to find more bugs.
[21:13] <semioticrobotic> It sure seems like it
[21:13] <godbyk> The second edition will be the manual that hangs around with the LTS release, so it may be used for some years yet.
[21:13] <ubuntujenkins> humphreybc-mini: has the winner of the competion be told that they won?
[21:13] <semioticrobotic> good point
[21:13] <ubuntujenkins> bug comp^
[21:13] <humphreybc-mini> ubuntujenkins: Well, I have to actually figure out who won
[21:13] <humphreybc-mini> I've only had one person tell me they have done 10 buigs
[21:13] <humphreybc-mini> bugs*
[21:13] <ChrisWoollard> Just out of interest. Are specifica people responsible for checking  different chapters or anything like that
[21:13] <godbyk> Are they supposed to notify you, or do they expect you to tally up the results?
[21:14] <ubuntujenkins> I think about 3-4 people at a guess i have not actually looked .
[21:14] <daker> hi
[21:14] <humphreybc-mini> godbyk: I didn'
[21:14] <ubuntujenkins> hey daker
[21:14] <godbyk> ChrisWoollard: Nope. It's a free-for-all.
[21:14] <humphreybc-mini> I didnt say, but I expect the latter
[21:14] <ChrisWoollard> There was one guy that logged a good hundred bugs
[21:14] <humphreybc-mini> I need to tally em up
[21:14] <godbyk> Is there an end date to the competition?
[21:14] <humphreybc-mini> nope
[21:15] <humphreybc-mini> oh
[21:15] <humphreybc-mini> well
[21:15] <humphreybc-mini> 2nd edition release I guess
[21:15] <godbyk> humphreybc-mini: We should set an end date so we have time to get the contributor names in the second edition of the manual.
[21:15] <humphreybc-mini> true
[21:15] <humphreybc-mini> I'll get onto all that at the end of next week
[21:15] <godbyk> Okay.
[21:15] <godbyk> Any other questions about the release of the second edition?
[21:15] <ChrisWoollard> I think this guy logged a lot of bugs
[21:15] <c7p> what about the bug tracking of the translated edition?
[21:15] <ChrisWoollard> https://edge.launchpad.net/~marc.stewart
[21:16] <ubuntujenkins> when is it? or did i miss that?
[21:16] <semioticrobotic> I have a quick question
[21:16] <ubuntujenkins> found it 29th july
[21:16] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: The second edition will be released 29 July.
[21:16] <dutchie> (5 days after my birthday \o/)
[21:16] <ubuntujenkins> semioticrobotic: ask away
[21:17] <semioticrobotic> Could someone clarify the syntax for linking specific fixed bugs in bzr commit anotations?
[21:17] <semioticrobotic> I see people have been doing that; it's very cool, and I want to do it
[21:17] <dutchie> bzr commit --fixes lp:<number>
[21:17] <semioticrobotic> does that automatically mark the bug as fixed?
[21:17] <dutchie> don't think so
[21:17]  * humphreybc-mini confesses that he hasn't looked at the branch in two months
[21:18] <semioticrobotic> ok
[21:18] <dutchie> i think it will do if the branch ends up in the main line
[21:18] <godbyk> semioticrobotic: Running 'bzr help bugs' will show you some examples, too.
[21:18] <semioticrobotic> so after committing and pushing, manually mark the bug
[21:18] <semioticrobotic> thanks, godbyk
[21:18] <godbyk> semioticrobotic: Yeah, that's what I've been doing: fix, push, mark the bug manually.
[21:18] <ChrisWoollard> I thought the procedure was to mark the bug as fix commited until the release.
[21:19] <godbyk> ChrisWoollard: It is.
[21:19] <ChrisWoollard> :)
[21:19] <semioticrobotic> ... but I didn't know if that had to happen manually
[21:19] <godbyk> Once the bug has been fixed and commit, mark it as 'Fix Committed'
[21:19] <semioticrobotic> yes
[21:19] <semioticrobotic> gotcha
[21:19] <semioticrobotic> thanks for the clarification
[21:19] <godbyk> 'Fix released' will be what we set those bugs to after the final PDF and book have been released.
[21:19] <semioticrobotic> ok
[21:19] <humphreybc-mini> Which basically means it's in the branch, ready for a release
[21:19] <godbyk> Right.
[21:20] <godbyk> Okay, any other questions about the second edition release?
[21:20] <c7p> question: What about the bug tracking of the translated editions? The http://bugs.ubuntu-manual.org/ isn't working.
[21:20] <humphreybc-mini> Of course, since this is a book, our releases aren't super defined because we're always releasing things... it's really a rolling release
[21:20] <godbyk> c7p: You can file them in Launchpad, if you like.
[21:20] <dutchie> c7p: tell me asap about bugs.u-m.o outages
[21:20] <dutchie> i'll sort in a moment
[21:20] <humphreybc-mini> c7p: Yeah, Launchpad is the best until we get the new site design up with new bug form
[21:20] <godbyk> c7p: Also, you can pester dutchie about the bugs page.
[21:21] <godbyk> Any other questions?
[21:21] <humphreybc-mini> are we winning?
[21:21] <godbyk> Okay, since humphreybc-mini's here, we'll move on to some of his agenda items.
[21:21] <godbyk> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Manual Project Philosophy
[21:21] <MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu Manual Project Philosophy
[21:21] <humphreybc-mini> ah
[21:21] <humphreybc-mini> yes
[21:21] <humphreybc-mini> I have been working on this
[21:21] <humphreybc-mini> sort of
[21:22] <humphreybc-mini> So basically, here's more or less the near final version of this thing
[21:22] <humphreybc-mini> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/axMP6X6TIq
[21:22] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/axMP6X6TIq
[21:23] <dutchie> how embarrassing
[21:23] <dutchie> (the football)
[21:23] <humphreybc-mini> lol
[21:23] <ChrisWoollard> Why
[21:23] <dutchie> 1-1 draw
[21:23] <ChrisWoollard> which game
[21:24] <dutchie> england v usa
[21:24] <ubuntujenkins> shocking game
[21:24] <daker> haha
[21:24] <ChrisWoollard> Oh dear
[21:24] <ChrisWoollard> I should know that
[21:24] <godbyk> dutchie: We'll take that as a win, then.
[21:24]  * ChrisWoollard pretends he cares
[21:24] <c7p> haha :P
[21:24] <humphreybc-mini> That is tragic
[21:24] <dutchie> godbyk: your lack of understanding of the game is obvious
[21:24] <humphreybc-mini> Hilarious
[21:24] <humphreybc-mini> but tragic
[21:24] <dutchie> straneg
[21:25] <godbyk> humphreybc-mini: Do we have anything we need to discuss about the mission statement / philosophy, or are we just reading through it?
[21:25] <dutchie> i don't see NZ at the world cup
[21:25] <humphreybc-mini> godbyk Just reading through. If you have any suggestions, make some comments on the pad
[21:25] <godbyk> dutchie: Amusingly, despite our obvious lack of understand, we've managed to keep you at bay.  Oh, superiority!
[21:25] <godbyk> Okay.
[21:26] <dutchie> let's get through the meeting, then godbyk can gloat
[21:26] <humphreybc-mini> yep
[21:26] <godbyk> Does anyone have any questions, comments, suggestions, criticisms, etc. about the philosophy/mission statement stuff?  (It'll take a bit of time to read through, so you can pester us on the list or in here later if you like.)
[21:26] <humphreybc-mini> Stephen Fry didn't predict a draw: http://twitter.com/stephenfry/status/15995140379
[21:26] <godbyk> Okay, moving along then. :)
[21:27] <godbyk> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Support and Learning Center
[21:27] <MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu Support and Learning Center
[21:27] <godbyk> humphreybc-mini: Do you want to take this topic, too?
[21:27] <humphreybc-mini> ah
[21:27] <humphreybc-mini> well
[21:27] <humphreybc-mini> this is fairly broad
[21:27] <godbyk> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-support-and-learning-center
[21:27] <humphreybc-mini> What should we write it in? Python? Okay, settled.
[21:28] <semioticrobotic> just finished reading, humphreybc-mini.  it's come a long way!  I like the new mission statement
[21:28] <godbyk> I'm not sure that humphreybc-mini knows enough Python yet. :-P
[21:28] <humphreybc-mini> lol
[21:28] <dutchie> well, if it's an online jobbie, it'll end up being HTML/Javascript...
[21:28] <humphreybc-mini> I was looking at things like Zope
[21:28] <flan> Doesn't change the fact that Python's the best language in use today.
[21:28]  * ubuntujenkins is not sure he knows enough python either
[21:28] <godbyk> dutchie: Looks like your bug report got filed okay.
[21:28] <humphreybc-mini> I think the majority of the thing should be python
[21:28] <dutchie> godbyk: from the bugs page?
[21:28] <godbyk> dutchie: yeah.
[21:29] <humphreybc-mini> Launchpad uses python, everyone uses python
[21:29] <shrini> what to do with python for support center?
[21:29] <godbyk> humphreybc-mini: I think we need to establish another meeting with the docs team and learning team to get some details out of the way.
[21:29] <humphreybc-mini> It seems to offer the most flexibility when it comes to doing stuff like this, I was talking to thump er about it a couple of weeks ago
[21:29] <shrini> I am new to this concept
[21:29] <humphreybc-mini> godbyk, yeah
[21:30] <humphreybc-mini> but we need to make some decisions soon
[21:30] <godbyk> Is everyone here familiar with this Ubuntu Support and Learning Center concept that we've started working on?
[21:30] <semioticrobotic> humphreybc-mini, could you perhaps summarize the current state of our collaboration wth those teams?
[21:30] <ChrisWoollard> That would be good
[21:30] <humphreybc-mini> coz after my exams I'm going to market it like crazy to get some developers... and we need to know who we're trying to entice :)O
[21:30] <humphreybc-mini> semioticrobotic: Well, the learning team love us, the docs team love us except for Matthew East.
[21:31] <ubuntujenkins> am i correct in thinking that we have not had the colaberation meeting yet or did i miss it?
[21:31] <humphreybc-mini> He hates us :)
[21:31] <ChrisWoollard> why
[21:31] <flan> And I need to be smacked on weekdays so I'll actually focus on Quickshot so I can hel you get started on USLC.
[21:31] <daker> hahaa
[21:31] <shrini> if you need some python code, count me in
[21:31] <humphreybc-mini> I think it was called off coz no one showed up from their side
[21:31] <godbyk> So the short version is that we'd like to merge our work with the work of the doc team and learning team so that we're sharing a huge pool of documentation.  Any team can pull docs from the pool and organize them however they'd like.
[21:31] <semioticrobotic> ubuntujenkins, it was canceled but is being rescheduled
[21:31]  * flan is strangely unmotivated right now.
[21:31] <godbyk> So we can pull our docs from the pool to create PDFs and online manuals.
[21:31] <ubuntujenkins> semioticrobotic: thats what i thought
[21:31] <godbyk> The learning team can produce handouts, textbooks, lesson plans, etc.
[21:31] <ubuntujenkins> flan: i am starting on quickshot this tueday after my exam
[21:32] <dutchie> have we got around to working out how all this will work yet?
[21:32] <godbyk> We're going to integrate translations and editing via the website.
[21:32] <shrini> great
[21:32] <flan> That'll probably help, ubuntujenkins.
[21:32] <humphreybc-mini> The original plan was to get the infrastructure in place using our content as a proof of concept first
[21:32] <godbyk> You won't have to use LaTeX directly anymore as we'll have a web-based editor.
[21:32] <ChrisWoollard> There is also the developer manual. Were we going to have anything to do with that as well?
[21:32] <semioticrobotic> okay
[21:32] <semioticrobotic> so I remember humphreybc-mini's clusterfl0ck of a flow chart
[21:32] <godbyk> ChrisWoollard: We're working with that team a bit, too.
[21:32] <humphreybc-mini> ChrisWoollard: Sort of. Rick and Didier and a couple of other guys are making that, we're just offering advice and letting them use our channel
[21:33] <semioticrobotic> how exactly does that translate into concrete work on the ground?  Which groups will be responsible for what kinds of production/action?
[21:33] <ubuntujenkins> flan: cool, I will need some help with understanding some stuff you wrote
[21:33] <ChrisWoollard> So, pretty much if they ask for help..... then maybe
[21:33] <humphreybc-mini> ChrisWoollard: oh no, sure we'll help them
[21:33] <ChrisWoollard> :)
[21:33] <humphreybc-mini> Mainly with technical stuff though
[21:34] <humphreybc-mini> The idea is that they get the projects to write their own code, or grab shit from existing project help
[21:34] <humphreybc-mini> own code/text
[21:34] <godbyk> Our next steps are to reschedule the collaboration meeting when folks from the other two teams can attend so we can hash out a few technical details.
[21:34] <godbyk> Then we'll be busy designing and coding.
[21:35] <godbyk> But for the Maverick release, along with the usual PDF and printed manuals, we'll have an online version of the manual.
[21:35] <humphreybc-mini> yarp
[21:35] <semioticrobotic> ok
[21:35] <humphreybc-mini> the online version will be our text in USLC as a proof of concept
[21:35] <godbyk> With the online version of the manual, people can report bugs right from the page as they're reading the manual.
[21:35] <godbyk> They'll be able to link directly to a paragraph or section of the manual (handy for providing pointers in emails, forums, and IRC channels).
[21:35] <ubuntujenkins> godbyk: we better get started on the site we need more coders
[21:35] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: Agreed.
[21:36] <humphreybc-mini> But the whole awesome edited backend, paragraph at a time, suggestion based moderated wiki and online editor magical content pool etc might not be in place till next year ;)
[21:36] <semioticrobotic> and the giant content pool will be ... a repository?  a code branch?
[21:36] <godbyk> semioticrobotic: A bit of a hybrid.
[21:36] <humphreybc-mini> semioticrobotic: Not sure
[21:36] <semioticrobotic> ok
[21:36] <semioticrobotic> just trying to envision it all :)
[21:36] <c7p> How will the translation of that online manual stuff be done? Through launchpad ?
[21:36] <godbyk> semioticrobotic: Right now, we're thinking it'll be stored in a database with regular (nightly? hourly?) exports to a bzr branch.
[21:36] <semioticrobotic> ok
[21:36] <godbyk> semioticrobotic: We're pushing off any bzr import stuff until much, much later, though.
[21:37] <humphreybc-mini> godbyk, ahh, that would work
[21:37] <semioticrobotic> so contributing won't even require knowledge of bzr, launchpad, or anything like that
[21:37] <semioticrobotic> ok
[21:37] <godbyk> c7p: We'll probably have our own translation system if Launchpad's doesn't improve sufficiently.
[21:37] <humphreybc-mini> semioticrobotic: correct
[21:37] <humphreybc-mini> it will be awesome
[21:37] <semioticrobotic> ok
[21:37] <semioticrobotic> everything's starting to come together for me now
[21:37] <godbyk> So as you can see, we're fairly ambitious and have a lot of work ahead of us.
[21:37] <semioticrobotic> yes, I can see that!
[21:37] <c7p> ok it sound pretty good, I'm looking forward to it
[21:37] <humphreybc-mini> yar
[21:37] <dutchie> godbyk: that makes a change
[21:37] <ChrisWoollard> It will  take a lot of effort
[21:38] <godbyk> We're going to try to meet with the other teams in the next week or two to work out a few of the underlying technical details and then we'll start designing and coding.
[21:38] <godbyk> dutchie: What makes a change?
[21:38] <daker> godbyk, a lot of work :)
[21:38] <humphreybc-mini> So if we can get some more details hammered out in the next couple of weeks, I'll start working on the specification and marketing for it so we can get some people to help us
[21:38] <godbyk> You've all probably seen some traffic on the Ubuntu Manual mailing list a few weeks ago about this.  You'll probably see some more traffic soon.
[21:38] <semioticrobotic> okay, sounds goos
[21:38] <semioticrobotic> good*
[21:39] <semioticrobotic> we're going to need lots of help :)
[21:39] <godbyk> Okay, any other questions, comments, etc. on this topic?
[21:39] <ChrisWoollard> What lanaguages were we talking about again?
[21:39] <ChrisWoollard> I missed that bit. I think.
[21:40] <ChrisWoollard> for the development
[21:40] <daker> python (django) or PHP
[21:40] <godbyk> ChrisWoollard: We haven't pinned that down yet.
[21:40] <dutchie> django \o/
[21:40] <humphreybc-mini> all of the cool languages
[21:40] <ChrisWoollard> Shame I don't know Python.
[21:40] <ChrisWoollard> But i know Perl
[21:40] <humphreybc-mini> you'd better learn quick :P
[21:40] <ChrisWoollard> that is cool :P
[21:40] <flan> I've kinda been sold on Pylons. It didn't take much effort to set up and it seems quite scalable and flexible.
[21:41] <godbyk> [TOPIC] Research on manual usability
[21:41] <MootBot> New Topic:  Research on manual usability
[21:41] <godbyk> https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/msg01941.html
[21:41] <semioticrobotic> yeah ... when it comes to programming languages, I'm of no help.  But when you're generating content ... well, THAT I can edit
[21:41] <godbyk> So Ilya's worked up a plan for running some studies on how people use our manual and what problems they encounter.
[21:41] <humphreybc-mini> he's not here though, bummer
[21:42] <godbyk> If you have any feedback or questions about his study designs, you can respond to the thread on the mailing list.
[21:42] <ubuntujenkins> I think it is really good :)
[21:42] <semioticrobotic> the information will certainly be useful, that's for sure
[21:43] <godbyk> I agree.
[21:43] <godbyk> Okay, next up:
[21:43] <godbyk> [TOPIC] Cleaning up the instructions on the website
[21:43] <MootBot> New Topic:  Cleaning up the instructions on the website
[21:43] <c7p> godbyk: I have submitted one but I am still waiting an answer
[21:43] <semioticrobotic> plus, it'll be cool to say I was involved in something that required a Kickstarter campaign  :)
[21:43] <godbyk> Some of the instructions on our website are a bit short.
[21:43] <humphreybc-mini> and others are way too long
[21:43] <ubuntujenkins> the latex ppa should go on
[21:43] <godbyk> For example, http://ubuntu-manual.org/getinvolved/editors stops just short of explaining how to edit the .tex files, commit them back, etc.
[21:43] <ChrisWoollard> i think so
[21:43] <humphreybc-mini> I was thinking we could fix these up for the site redesign
[21:44] <ChrisWoollard> the ppa is useful
[21:44] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: Absolutely. If the PPA is working, then that will simplify the TeX stuff, I think.
[21:44] <humphreybc-mini> What do you guys think about having help overlays pop up more often on our site, like on launchpad?
[21:44] <godbyk> humphreybc-mini: Can you give me an example of where that would be useful?
[21:44]  * humphreybc-mini thinks
[21:45] <humphreybc-mini> Well I'm just trying to figure out whether the approach we have now (giving instructions based on roles) is the best
[21:45]  * godbyk takes that as a 'nope'.
[21:45] <godbyk> :)
[21:45] <ubuntujenkins> godbyk: It works and i can update it now i know how to make the packages my self
[21:45] <humphreybc-mini> I think it is
[21:45] <humphreybc-mini> but
[21:45] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: awesome.
[21:45] <humphreybc-mini> still open to other options
[21:45] <humphreybc-mini> I want to make the instructions as coooooooooooooool as possible
[21:46] <godbyk> So we need to update the instructions to ensure they're still accurate and reflect our current development efforts (make sure people are using the right branch, etc.).
[21:46] <humphreybc-mini> (also, helpful)
[21:46] <semioticrobotic> that cool, huh?
[21:46] <godbyk> We need to extend the instructions to include how to edit files, provide a link to the style guide, and so forth.
[21:46] <ChrisWoollard> simplicity
[21:46] <humphreybc-mini> godbyk, for example, where we tell people to set up an SSH key for Launchpad. We could just have that stuff in an overlay
[21:46] <godbyk> Would anyone like to volunteer to work on the instructions?
[21:47] <humphreybc-mini> Well I think I was going to do some
[21:47] <godbyk> You won't have to do all of them yourself. If you only know the translation side, that's great.  Ditto for authors/editors.
[21:47] <c7p> godbyk: I think I can help with the instructions
[21:47] <godbyk> humphreybc-mini: Okay.
[21:47] <godbyk> c7p: Great!
[21:47] <godbyk> I'll let c7p and humphreybc-mini work together on the instructions then.
[21:48] <humphreybc-mini> yarp
[21:48] <humphreybc-mini> sounds groovy
[21:48] <godbyk> You guys should be able to cover all the bases there, I think.
[21:48] <godbyk> Last item on the agenda:
[21:48] <godbyk> [TOPIC] Goals for Maverick
[21:48] <MootBot> New Topic:  Goals for Maverick
[21:48] <godbyk> humphreybc-mini: Do you want to field this topic, too?
[21:48] <humphreybc-mini> ah
[21:48] <humphreybc-mini> okay
[21:48] <humphreybc-mini> well
[21:49] <humphreybc-mini> Major things are of course, new edition of the manual, quickstart booklet(s), first release of USLC and a new look for the team
[21:49] <godbyk> Let's take those one at a time, then.
[21:49] <ChrisWoollard> What did USLC stand for?
[21:49] <godbyk> [TOPIC] Maverick edition of the manual
[21:49] <MootBot> New Topic:  Maverick edition of the manual
[21:50] <godbyk> ChrisWoollard: USLC: Ubuntu Support and Learning Center.
[21:50] <shrini> is it possible to have different layout?
[21:50] <godbyk> ChrisWoollard: (the new website we were talking about before)
[21:50] <shrini> for the book?
[21:50] <ubuntujenkins> ?mppa > humphreybc-mini
[21:50] <semioticrobotic> so ... will the Maverick edition be comprised of material from the giant content pool?
[21:50] <quickshotdevs> ubuntujenkins: Error: "mppa" is not a valid command.
[21:50] <quickshotdevs> humphreybc-mini, please see my private message
[21:50] <godbyk> shrini: Possibly. What're you thinking?
[21:50] <ChrisWoollard> Godbyk: Thanks. I just didn't link it to the learning centre
[21:50] <shrini> godbyk: the paper a4 is not good for a book to read
[21:51] <godbyk> shrini: True, but it's good for printing the book yourself.
[21:51] <shrini> check out other normal books
[21:51] <shrini> godbyk: you are right
[21:51] <shrini> :-)
[21:51] <shrini> ok. agree
[21:51] <godbyk> So we're kind of compromising a bit there.
[21:51] <godbyk> Normally the problem with larger format books is that the lines are too long and the book is too heavy.
[21:51] <shrini> thats fine
[21:52] <godbyk> In our case, the lines are shorter since we leave plenty of room for sidenotes, and the book isn't too heavy as we're too lazy to write so much material.
[21:52] <godbyk> (Okay, the real reason is because we're trying to keep it fairly short.)
[21:52] <shrini> :-)
[21:52] <humphreybc-mini> so maverick will get a lot of stuff cut out
[21:52] <godbyk> shrini: But we can look into different paper formats down the road.  Remind me again in a couple months! :)
[21:52] <semioticrobotic> we're going even shorter?
[21:52] <humphreybc-mini> and some more stuff added in that's more applicable to our target audience
[21:52] <ChrisWoollard> Having bucket loads of text doesn't make easy reading
[21:53] <humphreybc-mini> semioticrobotic: yep
[21:53] <semioticrobotic> ok
[21:53] <humphreybc-mini> No terminal stuff in Maverick
[21:53] <c7p> so the maverick edition's text won't be composed from the start, right?
[21:53] <shrini> godbyk: sure. will remind you
[21:53] <humphreybc-mini> It will truly become a "Getting Started" guide, and readers will be directed to USLC for further learning
[21:53] <godbyk> c7p: We'll be reusing whatever we can from the Lucid editions.
[21:53] <semioticrobotic> now ... will the giant content pool be generated BEFORE the Maverick release, or after?
[21:53] <humphreybc-mini> semioticrobotic: after most likely
[21:53] <semioticrobotic> ok
[21:54] <ChrisWoollard> When is the Maverick manual planned for release?
[21:54] <semioticrobotic> so Maverick writing will be our springboard into the pool
[21:54] <humphreybc-mini> semioticrobotic: ya
[21:54] <humphreybc-mini> ChrisWoollard: Not sure, it will be a day before Maverick is released. Which will October 9th.
[21:55] <godbyk> ChrisWoollard: We had a nice release schedule, but then they moved the date on is and we haven't revised our schedule yet.
[21:55] <ChrisWoollard> Ok. So not much time to write it then
[21:55] <humphreybc-mini> nope
[21:55] <semioticrobotic> humphreybc-mini: In that case, the docs team and the manual team will most likely be collaborating during the writing and editing process?
[21:55] <humphreybc-mini> semioticrobotic: I bloody well hope so :)
[21:55] <godbyk> Here's what our original release schedule looked like: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/MaiZTb4Fjd
[21:55]  * semioticrobotic laughs
[21:55] <semioticrobotic> yes, me too
[21:56] <humphreybc-mini> oh, and the persona
[21:56] <humphreybc-mini> forgot about that
[21:56] <semioticrobotic> not doing it?
[21:56] <humphreybc-mini> hopefully we are
[21:56] <godbyk> The persona will be kind of a big deal, I think.
[21:56] <humphreybc-mini> we'll just see
[21:57] <semioticrobotic> but not the persona touted in the first (and, er, only) episode of Ubuntuesday?
[21:57] <humphreybc-mini> priorities are something like manual > USLC > quickshot > persona > our website > quickstart booklets
[21:57] <godbyk> Shall we move on to the booklets real quick?
[21:57] <humphreybc-mini> semioticrobotic: Ubuntuesday is going to make a stellar return soon
[21:57] <ChrisWoollard> Whatever the case, I am happy to help write if required.
[21:57] <godbyk> [TOPIC] Quick-start booklet(s)
[21:57] <MootBot> New Topic:  Quick-start booklet(s)
[21:58] <semioticrobotic> humphreybc-mini:  Gotcha.  That's actually a very helpful, seeing a hierarchical list of items
[21:58] <humphreybc-mini> so we can test the water with one for installation I think
[21:58] <ubuntujenkins> I think we should also do an about ubuntu one
[21:58] <humphreybc-mini> ubuntujenkins: ah, that could be good too
[21:58] <ubuntujenkins> and leave it at two. They are like the first two in a series
[21:59] <humphreybc-mini> thorwil and I will be working on the design at some point
[21:59] <ChrisWoollard> Ubuntu One (inc. music store).
[21:59] <godbyk> The quick-start bookets will be really short guides (how-to's) that focus on just one task, procedure, or small application.
[21:59] <humphreybc-mini> Then we just need to make it a latex template or something, and shove the text in
[21:59] <semioticrobotic> I think a Quick Start guide that has Ubuntu equivalents of popular Winows programs (for switchers) would be good
[21:59] <ubuntujenkins> i think there will be a set eventully
[21:59] <humphreybc-mini> yeah, think about the size of an Ubuntu CD sleeve, although slightly taller
[21:59] <ubuntujenkins> what about a three fold leaflet?
[21:59] <ubuntujenkins> a4
[22:00] <humphreybc-mini> I was just thinking about that
[22:00] <semioticrobotic> that'd certainly be nice for LoCos
[22:00]  * ubuntujenkins thinks great minds think a like :P
[22:00] <humphreybc-mini> A4 would be good for locos to print off themselves
[22:00] <humphreybc-mini> ;)
[22:00] <daker> really i need to go, i'll read the log ASAP
[22:00] <humphreybc-mini> daker: no worries, chow!
[22:00] <ubuntujenkins> se ya daker
[22:00] <godbyk> daker: No problem.  Thanks for coming!
[22:00]  * semioticrobotic thinks these are all great minds
[22:00] <daker> thanks
[22:00] <godbyk> [TOPIC] First release of Ubuntu Support and Learning Center (USLC)
[22:00] <MootBot> New Topic:  First release of Ubuntu Support and Learning Center (USLC)
[22:01] <godbyk> I think we've already discussed this item, but if there's anything anyone wants to add...
[22:01] <humphreybc-mini> pyyyyyyyyyyyython
[22:01] <godbyk> lol
[22:01] <godbyk> Okay, then. :)
[22:01] <humphreybc-mini> Anyway
[22:01] <shrini> Php ?
[22:01] <godbyk> And finally:
[22:01] <godbyk> [TOPIC] New look for the team
[22:01] <MootBot> New Topic:  New look for the team
[22:01] <humphreybc-mini> So this new look will be
[22:01] <ubuntujenkins> o do i get new clothes?
[22:01] <c7p> haha
[22:01] <godbyk> Makeovers for everyone!
[22:01] <shrini> hair style?
[22:01] <ubuntujenkins> I need some shirts
[22:01] <semioticrobotic> is this like another reboot of Power Rangers or something?
[22:01] <humphreybc-mini> new website, new slogan, new philosophy, new marketing materials, new website instructions, new collaboration with other teams
[22:01] <ChrisWoollard> Do i have to wear a bowtie
[22:02] <humphreybc-mini> LOL
[22:02] <shrini> good idea
[22:02] <semioticrobotic> okay
[22:02] <humphreybc-mini> My last exam is this friday
[22:02] <semioticrobotic> that's ... quite a makeover!
[22:02] <humphreybc-mini> after that I have two weeks holiday where I will be working 9 - 5 on Ubuntu :P
[22:02] <ubuntujenkins> on the new philosophy/colaberation  it would be nice if we hung out in #ubuntu-doc as well as here
[22:02] <humphreybc-mini> So I'll get a mega shit tonne of designs and specs out
[22:03] <humphreybc-mini> ubuntujenkins: Yeah, good point
[22:03] <daker> humphreybc-mini, i need perfection for the website
[22:03]  * ubuntujenkins hints everyone to join
[22:03] <humphreybc-mini> haha
[22:03] <humphreybc-mini> daker: I know :P
[22:03] <humphreybc-mini> daker: It's coming along good
[22:03] <daker> we will see
[22:03] <humphreybc-mini> daker: http://twitpic.com/1w0ni3
[22:04] <shrini> good
[22:04] <daker> http://bobbo.me.uk/index.php/planet-ubuntu/operation-cleansweep-day-four-update
[22:04] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://bobbo.me.uk/index.php/planet-ubuntu/operation-cleansweep-day-four-update
[22:04] <daker> GOOD
[22:04] <humphreybc-mini> nice daker!
[22:05] <ChrisWoollard> That progress bar is nice
[22:05] <semioticrobotic> good stuff
[22:05] <zleap> hi
[22:05] <godbyk> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous/other business and open questions
[22:05] <semioticrobotic> operation cleansweep seems like a huge undertaking
[22:05] <MootBot> New Topic:  Miscellaneous/other business and open questions
[22:05] <dutchie> hi zleap
[22:05] <godbyk> Okay, does anyone have any other topics we should discuss?
[22:05] <godbyk> Any questions?
[22:06] <daker> good night
[22:06] <zleap> just downloaded the UK english manual, according to the properties its in US letter
[22:06] <godbyk> G'night, daker
[22:06] <zleap> this is properties of the file,  so the properties dialog says US letter
[22:06] <dutchie> godbyk: this is your area
[22:06] <godbyk> zleap: It says A4 here.
[22:06] <humphreybc-mini> hrmmmmm
[22:06] <semioticrobotic> humphreybc-mini: I'll be moving soon ... a pretty significant relocation so I can start my doctoral studies
[22:07] <godbyk> zleap: I just downloaded it from http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/builds/ubuntu-manual-en_GB.pdf
[22:07] <humphreybc-mini> semioticrobotic: where are you off to?
[22:07] <semioticrobotic> unfortunately, during that time, I'll be MIA
[22:07] <godbyk> semioticrobotic: Awesome! What're you studying?
[22:07] <semioticrobotic> Moving to another state, North Carolina
[22:07] <shrini> team: alpha version of ubuntu manual is released in the ubuntu release party http://kanchilug.wordpress.com/2010/06/07/ubuntu-10-04-release-party-at-kanchipuram/
[22:07]  * humphreybc-mini though semioticrobotic lived in Germany
[22:07] <shrini> http://kanchilug.wordpress.com/2010/06/11/alpha-version-of-ubuntu-manual-in-tamil-released/
[22:07] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://kanchilug.wordpress.com/2010/06/11/alpha-version-of-ubuntu-manual-in-tamil-released/
[22:07] <semioticrobotic> ha!
[22:07] <dutchie> humphreybc-mini: that's thorwil
[22:07] <shrini> thanks a lot your help
[22:07] <semioticrobotic> humphreybc-mini: Most people assume this, because of my last name
[22:08] <shrini> screwed godby and ubuntujenkins a lot
[22:08] <godbyk> shrini: Congratulations! Awesome job on the translation.
[22:08] <dutchie> lots of people assume i come from the netherlands, due to my nick
[22:08] <shrini> thanks godbyk.
[22:08]  * godbyk doesn't know what people make of him.
[22:08] <semioticrobotic> godbyk: I'll be studying in the Department of Communication Studies
[22:08] <semioticrobotic> working on cultural studies, critical theory, and media studies
[22:08] <humphreybc-mini> my UK PDf from that link reckons it's A4
[22:09] <ChrisWoollard> on builds.ubuntu-manual.org. Why are the two English (American) entries?
[22:09] <zleap> thanks
[22:09] <zleap> ChrisWoollard, maybe one is print the other is screen
[22:09] <godbyk> ChrisWoollard: I think I started the script, then stopped it and restarted it (without wiping out the half-written html file).
[22:09] <ChrisWoollard> Ok. Thanks
[22:10] <godbyk> ChrisWoollard: Or: Because American English is so incredibly awesome, it's worthy of two entries.
[22:10] <godbyk> Take your pick. :)
[22:10] <ChrisWoollard> I am really pleased the UK edition only has 2 warnings/
[22:10] <ChrisWoollard> godbyk: Whatever.
[22:10] <humphreybc-mini> shrini: that release party looked awesome
[22:10] <shrini> humphreybc-mini: :-)
[22:11]  * humphreybc-mini is tempted to do an OMG! Ubuntu! post on release parties now
[22:11] <godbyk> ChrisWoollard: I think that those warnings can be ignored, too. I'll look into them.
[22:11] <shrini> OMG post is a good idea
[22:11] <godbyk> Okay, does anyone have anything else for the meeting, or shall I release MootBot from his duties?
[22:11] <humphreybc-mini> hey so godbyk, what's the story on translations?
[22:12] <humphreybc-mini> When can I announce that we have some more released?
[22:12] <godbyk> humphreybc-mini: You should've been here about 10 minutes earlier. :)
[22:12] <ChrisWoollard> I am sure that one was a image. which is fine because the US english cover is good for UK
[22:12] <godbyk> humphreybc-mini: Short answer: When I tell you. :)
[22:12] <humphreybc-mini> boo
[22:12] <godbyk> humphreybc-mini: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/translationtodo
[22:12] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins and c7p and I have been working on a checklist.
[22:13] <godbyk> #endmeeting
[22:13] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 16:13.
[22:13] <godbyk> Thanks, MootBot!
[22:13] <c7p> very informative meeting :D. Godbyk what else remains for the greek edition?
[22:13] <semioticrobotic> Good ol' MootBot
[22:14] <semioticrobotic> good meeting everyone
[22:14] <dutchie> so what am i supposed to do?
[22:14] <humphreybc-mini> godbyk how awfully complicated
[22:14] <semioticrobotic> I'm off
[22:14] <humphreybc-mini> dutchie: start working on USLC :P
[22:14] <godbyk> humphreybc-mini: tell me about it!
[22:14] <godbyk> c7p: I'm not sure yet.  Do you have everything on that checklist done already?
[22:14] <semioticrobotic> bye everyone
[22:15] <ubuntujenkins> semioticrobotic: bye
[22:15] <shrini> team: thanks all
[22:15] <c7p> I think yes, but I'm not 100% sure. Let me check the list
[22:15] <godbyk> c7p: Okay.
[22:16] <ubuntujenkins> shrini: we will have to work on the final version of tamil when the translations are finished
[22:16] <dutchie> humphreybc-mini: I have 5 more exams, and nobody has told me anything about the backend infrastructure :P
[22:16] <humphreybc-mini> dutchie: When is your last exam?
[22:16] <shrini> ubuntujenkins: yes. will finish it up as soon as possible
[22:16] <dutchie> humphreybc-mini: ages
[22:16] <humphreybc-mini> ....
[22:16] <ubuntujenkins> shrini: no rush I look forward to seeing it finished
[22:16] <dutchie> 28th of June
[22:16] <godbyk> Seems everyone busy with exams these days.
[22:16] <humphreybc-mini> no worries
[22:16] <humphreybc-mini> you concentrate on exams
[22:17] <humphreybc-mini> when you're finished I guarantee you there will be work :)
[22:17] <dutchie> yay
[22:17] <shrini> ubuntujenkins: sure.
[22:17] <shrini> thanks
[22:17] <shrini> okey friens
[22:17] <shrini> leaving now
[22:17]  * ubuntujenkins shouts at gwibber
[22:17]  * humphreybc-mini is hoping that once USLC work commences, Canonical might hire a dev or two to work on it
[22:18] <humphreybc-mini> Like they did with Zeitgeist and a few other things
[22:18] <shrini> catch  you later
[22:18] <ubuntujenkins> humphreybc-mini: keep dreaming
[22:18] <ubuntujenkins> see ya shrini
[22:18] <shrini> bye
[22:18] <dutchie> maybe they could pay me to work on it
[22:18] <humphreybc-mini> maybe dutchie
[22:18] <ChrisWoollard> ubuntujenkins: Did you run through http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/translationtodo on en_GB?
[22:19] <ubuntujenkins> ChrisWoollard: no I just checked it for build errors
[22:19] <ChrisWoollard> Ok. I'll try to do that this week.
[22:20] <ubuntujenkins> i did about 5 langauges and recorded the common mistakes. I will have a look if i have time after my exams
[22:21]  * humphreybc-mini has to get out of bed and start studying
[22:22] <humphreybc-mini> I have two big exams this week so don't expect to see me around till next weekend
[22:22] <dutchie> humphreybc-mini: have you finally got OOP/Python?
[22:22] <humphreybc-mini> ya I think so
[22:22] <c7p> godbyk Is it possible to make a simple program/script checking that everything is fine on the tex file? (e.g Idots ans so on)
[22:22] <humphreybc-mini> Had an exam on that on friday
[22:23] <humphreybc-mini> went fairly well
[22:23] <dutchie> wish i could have an exam on python
[22:23] <ubuntujenkins> I wish i could have an exam on ubuntu.
[22:23] <dutchie> actually, most I wish that my eyes/nose would learn how to deal with pollen
[22:23] <humphreybc-mini> lol
[22:24] <godbyk> c7p: Well, it's really hard to parse LaTeX code properly, but I would like to have a script that checks a lot of the simple/common errors.
[22:24] <dutchie> i did put that on my todo list once
[22:24] <dutchie> it didn't get very far
[22:25] <godbyk> I could write up a whole list of simple checks to make, if someone wants to take a shot at coding it up.
[22:25] <dutchie> I think i got as far as "#!/usr/bin/perl; use strict; use warnings;"
[22:25] <godbyk> I wrote a script before that checked for common English errors.
[22:25] <godbyk> That needs to be updated/expanded, too.
[22:25] <godbyk> And Ilya wrote a script that runs spellcheck against the .tex files.
[22:25] <godbyk> We should probably wrap all those functions into once place.  Maybe with a simple GUI frontend, too.
[22:26] <ubuntujenkins> don't mention a gui :P
[22:26] <godbyk> dutchie: Ilya's and my scripts were in Python.
[22:26] <godbyk> GUI isn't required by any means.
[22:26] <humphreybc-mini> just glade
[22:26] <humphreybc-mini> hack it all together :P
[22:27] <godbyk> But yeah, I think we should have an Ubuntu Manual lint program. :)
[22:27] <ubuntujenkins> "lint" ?
[22:27] <godbyk> If anyone gets some free time (or feels like procrastinating) and wants to take it on, give me a holler.
[22:27]  * ubuntujenkins hides at the mention of glade
[22:28] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: yeah. there are lots of *lint programs that check the format of code or other nit-picky details.
[22:28] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: see "apt-get search lint" for examples.
[22:28] <godbyk> (including lots of 'em for python.. like pyflakes.)
[22:28] <ubuntujenkins> I see
[22:28] <c7p> many things to be done, we have still long way
[22:28] <ubuntujenkins> why will facebook not add in gwibber
[22:29] <godbyk> c7p: For the project in general, or for the Greek translation in particular?
[22:29] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: check your username.
[22:29] <c7p> the project in general :)
[22:29] <c7p> RTL stands for ?
[22:29] <godbyk> c7p: definitely true
[22:29] <ubuntujenkins> godbyk: it authorises it jsut will not do anything after clicking all
[22:30] <ubuntujenkins> c7p: right to left
[22:30] <c7p> ubuntujenkins: thank you :)
[22:30] <ubuntujenkins> *add not all
[22:30] <ubuntujenkins> c7p: I did not know untill daker told me :)
[22:30] <ubuntujenkins> yey giwbber works!
[22:32] <humphreybc-mini> right
[22:32] <humphreybc-mini> im off
[22:32] <humphreybc-mini> catchya later
[22:32] <ubuntujenkins> seya humphreybc-mini
[22:34] <c7p> godbyk: At http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/ I see that the greek pdf has 4 warnings, and 2 errors
[22:35] <c7p> godbyk: the last time I checked it had 4 warnings 0 errors :/
[22:35] <godbyk> c7p: Yeah, the errors are my bad.
[22:36] <godbyk> c7p: I rewrote the code for the revision info translation stuff and screwed up the Greek version.
[22:36] <godbyk> c7p: I just committed a fix.
[22:36] <c7p> godbyk: ok, no worries :)
[22:36] <c7p> godbyk: I there any way I can find and "fix" those 4 warnings
[22:36] <godbyk> I'm going to update all of the builds again soon.
[22:37] <godbyk> c7p: Hm.. let me see what they are.
[22:41] <godbyk> c7p: It looks like they're fontspec warnings. It's complaining that there's no Greek language for the Greek script.
[22:41] <godbyk> I'm not quite sure what it's on about there. I'll have to look into it.
[22:41] <godbyk> c7p: Can you check the page number references in the glossary and see if they're correct?
[22:41] <godbyk> The English ones weren't.
[22:41] <godbyk> If I continue to have problems with them, I will just disable them.
[22:42] <godbyk> I'll be back in just a bit.
[22:43] <ubuntujenkins> night all
[22:43] <dutchie> night
[22:43] <c7p> godbyk: sure
[22:43] <c7p> night ubuntujenkins
[22:46] <c7p> godbyk: hm, by "page number references: you mean the (translated) word(s) that it should have?
[23:01] <godbyk> c7p: At the end of each glossary entry, there are page numbers that link to the page(s) that the word appears on.
[23:01] <godbyk> In the English version, the page numbers were off by one, sometimes.
[23:02] <godbyk> For example, it may say the word appeared on page 47 when it was actually on page 48.
[23:02] <c7p> godbyk: ok I'll check the number references
[23:08] <c7p> godbyk: On ISP entry the page 168 isn't correct, I've also other bugs should I mail them to you or report them one by one on channel ?
[23:11] <godbyk> Probably best to email them to me.
[23:11] <godbyk> That way if I don't get them fixed immediately, they can stay in my inbox and visually harass me until I do fix them. :)
[23:15] <c7p> godbyk: lol :p ok
[23:45] <c7p> godbyk: message send, 7 bugged glossary entries tracked


[11:00] <enoch8592> Hi guys!
[11:00] <enoch8592> I have an issue that's been bugging me for days
[11:01] <enoch8592> make that weeks btw*
[11:02] <enoch8592> Running Ubuntu Mate 18.04 as a server for LTSP with dual screens (one VGA and one DP) on kernel 4.10 from mainline.
[11:03] <enoch8592> The DP screen is forced in ltsp.conf to be shown to the client, without it it's not comping online at all. The clients run HP T5745
[11:03] <enoch8592> Problem is that when moving the mouse in between the screens, the DP screen flickers for like 1-2 seconds and then comes back. This happens randomly.
[11:04] <enoch8592> I've been talking alot in #ltsp about this and they sent me here
[11:04] <enoch8592> I've read in many places that editing this would help: https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=1533863#p1533863
[11:04] <enoch8592> I've also tried 12 different DP cables, from different brands and the issue presists
[11:05] <enoch8592> Other than that I've tried with the latest kernel (5.0) and using that makes the screen disappear completely, not even possible to force it. Only 4.10 works afai have tested
[11:06] <enoch8592> Do you have any trick in your sleeve that I could try to sort this out, or is the next step to file a bug report with intel?
[11:06] <enoch8592> Thanks!
[16:05] <tjaalton> 5.0 is hardly latest
[16:05] <tjaalton> oh he's gone'
[16:32] <ricotz> tjaalton, 5.0 is the lastest supported hwe kernel in bionic ;)
[16:35] <tjaalton> still pointless to file bugs about it to intel


[05:31] <superprower> Hi, i'm using x64 version of ubuntu, and i want to install wine, but when i try to do this, aptitude says that wine wants to remove my nvidia driver and install mesa instead, i tried wine1.5, wine1.6-amd64 both of them doing the same, how do i install wine on x64 system? ty for answer in advance
[05:33] <superprower> *xubuntu
[11:57] <Reptilia> I am having problems with the hibernate / suspend options on my laptop. When i am on AC and i close the lid, the laptop won't hibernate but will just only turn off the screen. On the contrary, when i am on battery power, the laptop will suspend when i close the lid. In both cases i am getting the following message: "Power Manager - not authorized" accompanied with an icon with "Z z" written on it. Any ideas on how to fix this? Thanks in advance.
[11:57] <Reptilia> This started happening after an update which i made approx. a week ago
[12:06] <Reptilia> I am having problems with the hibernate / suspend options on my laptop. When i am on AC and i close the lid, the laptop won't hibernate but will just only turn off the screen. On the contrary, when i am on battery power, the laptop will suspend when i close the lid. In both cases i am getting the following message: "Power Manager - not authorized" accompanied with an icon with "Z z" written on it. Any ideas on how to fix this? Thanks in advance.
[12:16] <brainwash> Reptilia: which xubuntu release? first thing to test would be to disable screen locking and then try again
[12:19] <Reptilia> brainwash:14.04.2
[12:21] <Reptilia> brainwash:The thing is, everything was fine till a week ago
[12:21] <brainwash> you mentioned this
[12:22] <Reptilia> brainwash:Light locker is off
[12:22] <Reptilia> brainwash:So, screen locking is disabled
[12:23] <brainwash> did you enable the Xfce 4.12 PPA?
[12:24] <Reptilia> brainwash:Nope, to be frank, i don't know what is the usage of enabling that repo
[12:25] <brainwash> mmh
[12:25] <brainwash> so the amount of updates should be rather low
[12:25] <Reptilia> brainwash:To make it clear (the initial explanation of the problem may not be explained well), the laptop is working as it's supposed to while on battery (it does suspend). The problem is when it's on AC
[12:25] <brainwash> check the log files in /var/log/apt/
[12:26] <Reptilia> okay
[12:26] <brainwash> right. I think we should first figure out which updates have been installed in the past days
[12:26] <Reptilia> Okay. There are 5 log files here
[12:26] <Reptilia> 6*
[12:27] <Reptilia> Which one should i open?
[12:27] <Reptilia> Oh no, sorry
[12:27] <brainwash> the history one
[12:27] <Reptilia> 2 log files only
[12:27] <Reptilia> my bad.
[12:28] <Reptilia> brainwash:http://pastebin.com/q3wAwivD
[12:28] <Reptilia> brainwash: http://pastebin.com/q3wAwivD
[12:29] <brainwash> well, is there no older history file? a .gz one?
[12:30] <Reptilia> brainwash:I have "Put the computer to sleep when inactive for" set to "Never". Could this cause problems?
[12:31] <brainwash> that's screen locking when idle
[12:31] <Reptilia> brainwash:Yeah, but just to re-assure :)
[12:31] <Reptilia> brainwash:There are
[12:32] <Reptilia> brainwash:2 older history files, with .gz extension
[12:36] <brainwash> will you upload the content of these files too?
[12:37] <brainwash> the newer one should contain the specific time frame I guess
[12:38] <Reptilia> brainwash:Sure
[12:45] <Reptilia> brainwash:I will do that for a few minutes, but tell me, why isn't hibernation an option while on battery, when it's more battery-friendly than suspend (sleep)?
[12:46] <brainwash> I don't know. hibernation is disabled by default in x/ubuntu
[12:46] <Reptilia> brainwash:Btw, the laptop suspends successfully while on AC
[12:48] <brainwash> so, are you trying to say that something other than a system update is the cause? we still trying to check which packages have been updated
[12:49] <brainwash> did you change any settings (system files) or Xfce related ones?
[12:50] <Reptilia> brainwash:I am just trying to remember if i have played with some of the power settings, but i recalled now that i did not modify the laptop lid settings, so, we (you :)) can see the log files
[12:50] <Reptilia> just a sec
[12:51] <brainwash> one thing you could (and should) check is whether a second or new user account is affected too by this problem
[13:01] <Reptilia> brainwash:Weird. I logged in into a guest account as you said. The laptop did suspend / hibernated (not sure about the practical difference between those and the time it takes for the pc to be usable again after opening the lid), but in the Power Options, both on battery and AC, the "When laptop lid is closed" option was set to: "Lock screen".
[13:02] <Reptilia> brainwash:I guess it was a suspend, because it was relatively fast booted up again (~ 3.5 seconds)
[13:03] <brainwash> so, it did work, but the power manager settings were ignored
[13:04] <Reptilia> brainwash:Yeah, it turns out that the settings were ignored
[13:05] <brainwash> can you test with a new user account too? the guest session may behave differently
[13:05] <Reptilia> brainwash:Sure
[13:05] <brainwash> some special rules may apply to it
[13:10] <Reptiliah> brainwash:I tried reversing to the initial laptop lid settings (AC:Lock screen, Battery:Lock screen). While on AC, i closed the laptop display, the laptop did shutdown, when i opened it up again, it did ask me for my user password (previously it didn't), and after that the laptop screen went solid black, and no output was shown on it. I had to reboot, and here i am.
[13:13] <Reptiliah> brainwash:Brb, ~ 15 mins
[13:15] <Reptiliah> brainwash:It turns out that everything works fine, except the hibernate (which you said that is disabled by default in Xubuntu)
[13:16] <Reptiliah> brainwash:now brb
[13:16] <brainwash> that's confusing. I mean to keep track of what works and what does not :)
[13:17] <brainwash> 'lock screen' should only lock the screen, the system should keep running
[13:44] <Reptiliah> brainwash:Pencil and paper
[13:44] <Reptiliah> brainwash: :)
[13:45] <Reptiliah> brainwash:And about the 'lock screen' option
[13:45] <Reptiliah> brainwash:Idk..
[13:45] <Reptiliah> brainwash:I will link you the history log files now, just tell me how to decompress them
[14:14] <Nairwolf> hi, could you tell me if I use the lock screen, does it put the system in sleep mode ?
[14:21] <Reptiliah> Nairwolf:In my case, yes
[14:21] <Reptiliah> Nairwolf:Waiting for brainwash, so we can try to fix that :)
[14:21] <Nairwolf> is it possible to disable this ?
[14:22] <Reptiliah> Nairwolf:I don't know
[14:22] <Nairwolf> because I would like to lock out my system without put it in sleep mode
[14:23] <Nairwolf> (because on sleep mode, for example, I must to quit IRC
[14:48] <Nairwolf> someone know how to lock the screen without put the system in sleep mode ?
[14:49] <Reptiliah> Nairwolf:True, let's wait for brainwash, he seem to know a lot :)
[14:50] <Nairwolf> okay, do you know when I could find him ?
[14:57] <Reptiliah> Nairwolf:Nope, we will just wait for him to show, haha
[15:09] <Nairwolf> and how to have different virtual desktop ?
[18:05] <linnov> Hi. Can someone help me? After installing Xubuntu and "sudo ufw enable" there is no access to Internet... ISP gives the access to WAN through VPN-PPTP (vpn.isp.net).
[18:07] <linnov> The problem is in ufw (no changes in rule were made), cause after "sudo ufw disable" the access to Internet appears.
[18:18] <brainwash_> linnov: install gufw (graphical frontend) and configure ufw properly
[18:19] <brainwash_> linnov: if you still have questions, I suggest that you ask in #ubuntu
[18:19] <brainwash_> !ufw
[18:19] <brainwash_> and read this ^
[18:22] <linnov> brainwash: Thanks. Bun I was in #ubuntu and there is nothing. How can I understand this: Default: deny (incoming), allow (outgoing), disabled (routed)? No connection with default settings of ufw...
[18:23] <brainwash_> there is nothing?
[18:24] <brainwash_> I strongly recommends that you read the linked wiki article
[18:24] <brainwash_> recommend
[18:25] <brainwash_> + https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Gufw
[18:25] <brainwash_> you have to understand the basics
[18:35] <linnov> brainwash: Thanks for advice but... there is no nothing about pptp-vpn for home PC (not NAT-server), nothing about 1723 port of vpn-server of ISP... I did all that mentioned in above article... "Fail to connect to VPN"... incoming drop, outcoming accept - nothing work by default... I am out of mind. I read "Iptables manual 1.2.2" but it takes time. Thanks for trying to help.
[18:49] <JeZxLee> I have a question - how can I specify an icon in a makefile?
[19:49] <msev_> I'm getting  a "boot error" when I tried to boot the xubuntu 14.04.2 liveusb (created with unetbootin)
[19:50] <msev_> anything I can do?
[19:51] <ObrienDave> keep trying until it takes. did you check the ISO with md5?
[19:52] <msev_> no, but its the first time that it happened to me, I'm trying now various distros :)
[19:53] <ObrienDave> consider yourself lucky it's the first time :)
[19:53] <ObrienDave> i have much better luck burning ISO to DVD
[19:53] <msev_> I had a minty xfce variant before, now I put ubuntu mate on and I fell its not as snappy as xfce
[19:54] <msev_> so I want to try dual booting with xubuntu :)
[19:54] <msev_> I'll try again
[19:54] <ObrienDave> wait....
[19:55] <ObrienDave> you only need to install the different DEs. dual boot is not necessary for *buntus
[19:55] <Nairwolf> you should use mkusb, it seems more reliable thant unetbootin
[19:56] <ObrienDave> all *buntus share same core system. the flavors just use different desktop environments
[19:56] <ObrienDave> you can select which DE you want at the logon screen
[19:57] <msev_> yeah but for example when I mixed xfce and cinnamon it borked some settings
[19:57] <msev_> and that annoys me, that it for example changes the theme or something like that
[19:57] <ObrienDave> well, this is true. i tried cinnamon once, really screwed up my system
[19:58] <msev_> lolz is it just the case with cinnamon hehe
[19:58] <msev_> should mate and xfce be compatible :D
[19:58] <ObrienDave> i have both mate and xfce
[19:58] <msev_> and no problems?
[19:58] <ObrienDave> doesn't seem to be. ymmv
[19:59] <msev_> yeah then I might do it that way
[20:00] <msev_> now I need to join some other irc channel also since on another computer I'm going with ubuntu gnome :)
[20:00] <ObrienDave> #ubuntu handles gnome
[20:01] <ObrienDave> iirc
[20:01] <ObrienDave> there's 10x as many people in #ubuntu anyway. this is mostly for xubuntu specific issues
[20:01] <msev_> the partitioning thing always gets me when installing distros along side eachother and windows for example, I always need to go to some support channel :)
[20:02] <msev_> I'm happy with xfce 4.12 :)
[20:02] <msev_> no issues hehe
[20:02] <ObrienDave> cool
[20:02] <ObrienDave> partitioning is fairly easy, and fairly easy to bork the whole drive ;P
[20:03] <msev_> yeah :) thats why I always ask you guys the experts :)
[20:05] <ObrienDave> just remember, under MFT, you can have 4 partitions max. one can be an extended partition with many sub-partitions under it. i don't know the limit of that
[20:05] <ObrienDave> under GPT, you can have 128 partitions max
[20:06] <msev_> yeah won't go crazy with it :)
[20:09] <ObrienDave> i could not afford a HD anywhere near the drive capacity for GPT. lol
[23:57] <RJ45> After upgrading to 14.04, in the Sound Settings, none of the sound level meters are working (blue strips that bounce with sound), how do I fix this?
[23:57] <RJ45> Just to clarify, my sound is working, but the sound level indicators are not.
[23:59] <ObrienDave> which utility/package are you referring to?


[07:35] <jelmer> Hi stellarpower1
[07:42] <jelmer> stellarpower1: I'd recommend just using the git format if you're working against a remote repository that uses git
[07:42] <jelmer> You can push back to the git repository but you'll have to use --lossy, since git can't represent all the data that 2a has
[07:42] <jelmer> Breezy should tell you about this when you try to push to a git repository
[07:42] <jelmer> Not sure if Bazaar already did that
[15:13] <stellarpower1> It does yeah, even on the 2a format it warns me.
[15:13] <stellarpower1> Tell you what I'll try to see if it reproduces using the git format, I didn't think to see.
[15:13] <stellarpower1> Still would kinda like to know why it happens, but if it goes away then a bit moot. Thanks!