[01:18] <DM|> Anyone else install hardy into VM have trouble with virtual kernel?
[01:19] <DM|> im testing things out in a VM, :)
[01:27] <choudesh> anyone run gotomypc with the icedtea-java7-plugin?
[02:03] <mrAshley> Just out of curiosity.. is Hardy making it such that you can't ctrl+alt+f1(f2...etc) to a text-based virtual terminal?
[02:05] <Toma-> i hope not
[02:06] <mrAshley> (cause right now that's the case)
[02:10] <DM|> Anyone else experiencing X server restarts every time you click on gnome panel?
[02:10] <cps1966> dont use gnome
[02:10] <DM|> cps1966: then obviously that question wasnt for you then
[02:10] <cps1966> kde nis fine on my eee pc
[02:11] <DM|> eee pc runs ubuntu ? nice
[02:11] <cps1966> well kubuntu anyway
[02:11] <DM|> same thing
[02:11] <DM|> just different DE's
[02:12] <cps1966> pick 1440x900 for screen
[02:12] <DM|> 243 updates to install, so seeing if that fixes before i gather data for a bug
[02:12] <h3sp4wn> mrAshley: I cannot ctrl+alt+f1
[02:13] <h3sp4wn> mrAshley: just goes back to X
[02:13] <jgoss> bug #131751
[02:13] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 131751 in xorg-server "Unable to switch Virtual Terminal with C-A-F[1-6] on Intel-based new laptop" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/131751
[02:13] <jgoss> i suffer from that bug too :(
[02:14] <cps1966> hmm this has intell guts vid anyway
[02:15] <cps1966> works just fine with todays updates
[02:18] <mrAshley> mine is an i810, so is intel too. i thought it was rather a feature - though maybe inconvenient for power users
[02:19] <jgoss> it's not specific to intel. it seems to be a consolekit problem.
[02:19] <mrAshley> oic. :-)
[02:19] <cps1966> well mine works just fine
[02:20] <cps1966> i915 here
[02:21] <mrAshley> cps1966: you're missing out! ;)
[02:21] <pwnguin> anyone using iwl3945 with the .24 kernel?
[02:21] <Hobbsee> yeah.  not working.
[02:21] <pwnguin> ideas why?
[02:21] <Hobbsee> no l-u-m
[02:22] <Hobbsee> but i'm not sure what they're doing with that now, they've been changing around the source packages
[02:22] <pwnguin> is that a seperate source upload from the kernel source package?
[02:23] <Hobbsee> pwnguin: it was prior to .24.  linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.22
[02:23] <Hobbsee> unsure what it is now
[02:24] <pwnguin> i kinda wish someone would write on the planet what the hell the kernel team is up to
[02:24] <cps1966> all i know is this is the only distro besides xandros that will see my lan
[02:25] <Hobbsee> pwnguin: why?
[02:25] <Hobbsee> lurk in #ubuntu-kernel and see what happens.  *shrug*
[02:25] <pwnguin> Hobbsee: because curious minds want to know
[02:25] <cps1966> even gutsy wont work
[02:25] <pwnguin> #ubuntu-kernel is a wasteland of inactivity
[02:25] <Hobbsee> besides, it's not like most people are running hardy, so it's kinda inappropriate for planet
[02:25] <Hobbsee> during this sort of time, yeah
[02:26] <pwnguin> well, that doesn't stop anyone from writing about their new favorite spec
[02:26] <Hobbsee> sure, but users
[02:26] <Hobbsee> != devs
[02:26] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about devs - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[02:26] <pwnguin> that == "most people not running hardy"
[02:26] <Hobbsee> and the people tend to know who the users are :)
[02:26] <Hobbsee> er, teh devs are
[02:26] <pwnguin> Hobbsee: by chance, do you have a TI sdcard reader?
[02:26] <Toma-> Id love to see some kernel team attention go towards https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.22/+bug/31857
[02:27] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 31857 in linux-source-2.6.22 "r818x driver freezes randomly" [Medium,Confirmed]
[02:27] <Hobbsee> pwnguin: a TI sdcard...no, i don't think so
[02:27] <Hobbsee> mine's a ricoh
[02:27] <pwnguin> ah
[02:27] <Hobbsee> Toma-: seeing as they're not here...
[02:27] <pwnguin> Toma-: i think partly, there arent many members on the team
[02:27] <Toma-> :(
[02:27] <Toma-> its been in the last 3 releases
[02:28] <cps1966> i have sd card reader in this eee pc  and it works just fine
[02:28]  * pwnguin also thinks writing about the ubuntu kernel to user/developers might attract people towards kernel development
[02:28] <pwnguin> think of writing like recruitment
[02:28] <Hobbsee> pwnguin: you'd need to recruit users with skill in kernel-areas - and i suspect a generic "come help us" post won't get that.
[02:28] <Hobbsee> erm, devs
[02:28] <pwnguin> of course not
[02:29] <Toma-> its getting worked on upstream
[02:29] <pwnguin> but if you write about interesting things, at least people will read, and a few people may try to dive in
[02:29] <Toma-> just needs newer updates to the main kernel tree i thinks
[02:29]  * Hobbsee is not on the kernel team
[02:29] <cps1966> hope not to many divers
[02:30] <mrAshley> Hey for hardy is the UI being redeveloped? Are we going to maybe rethink the two-tool bars idea?
[02:31] <cps1966> i hope so its a hassel going from one to the other
[02:31] <Toma-> the art team is a little stale, imho, so no.
[02:31] <Hobbsee> they seemed pretty active during their meeting
[02:31] <cafuego> two tool bars?
[02:31] <Toma-> in terms of fresh ideas
[02:32] <Toma-> theres alot of talk
[02:32] <Hobbsee> cafuego: 2 panels
[02:32] <Toma-> theres going to be just 1 panel in ubuntustudio hardy
[02:32] <mrAshley> Toma-: It's more of a UI thing than an art thing. My roommate has a book on good UI design and it's gotten me thinking that there are a number of things that I'd like to address, but I can't program my way out of a wet paper bag.
[02:32] <cafuego> Heh
[02:32] <cafuego> Not on my machine there isn't.
[02:33] <Toma-> mrAshley➔ art team handles the UI aswell
[02:33] <mrAshley> cafuego: naturally it can be edited, which is lovely, but default install should be as user-friendly as possible.
[02:33] <hydrogen> see
[02:34]  * Hobbsee likes 2 panels.  *shrug*
[02:34] <hydrogen> the thing with ui's
[02:34] <mrAshley> Toma-: oic. (how'd you get that swish "->" arrow after my name?)
[02:34] <Toma-> mrAshley➔ magic :)
[02:34] <hydrogen> is its almost completely a "what I like better"
[02:34] <mrAshley> Toma-: show me show me show me!
[02:35] <cafuego> mrAshley: friendly for which user? ;-)
[02:36] <mrAshley> cafuego: friendly for someone who's never used it before. an example: a door with a panel means push, a door with a sticky outy handle means pull.
[02:37] <cafuego> But that's no reason to make the UI be Windows (or MacOS) though?
[02:38] <Toma-> 2 panels is slightly original
[02:38] <cps1966> make it beos
[02:38] <cafuego> mrAshley: Case in point: Sugar (on the olpc)
[02:38] <mrAshley> there are certain natural expectations that happen before higher-level comprehension. (like a sign which says pull)
[02:39] <mrAshley> cafuego: it shouldn't be different just to be different. Like imagine a door that opens from the bottom. Sure it's neat, but you have to bend all the way down to pull it up. Why do that just to be different?
[02:39]  * hydrogen doesn't understand wtf doors have to do with panels
[02:39] <hydrogen> unless
[02:39] <hydrogen> of course
[02:39] <hydrogen> you are suggesting installing automatic panels
[02:39] <hydrogen> like automatic doors
[02:39] <cps1966> KISS
[02:39] <hydrogen> which I'm sure would be really cool
[02:39] <hydrogen> and impressive
[02:40] <hydrogen> and make digg
[02:40]  * Hobbsee vaguely watches the bikeshedding
[02:40] <hydrogen> which means they are great
[02:40]  * mrAshley is trying to compare two items which someone use.
[02:40] <mrAshley> someone >might< use.
[02:40] <Toma-> some butt ugly mockup made digg front page for heron. doesnt mean its going to be used
[02:41] <hydrogen> Hobbsee: transluctent I think.
[02:41]  * mrAshley sighs at digg(, despite being a slave to it.)
[02:41] <Hobbsee> hydrogen: *g*
[02:41] <cafuego> mrAshley: As I understand it the two panels in Gnome offer additional functionality without filling one panel with icons to the point of uselessness.
[02:41] <Hobbsee> hydrogen: i'd prefer rainbow
[02:41] <hydrogen> Hobbsee: rainbow is so 90's :/
[02:41] <hydrogen> translucency is the new buzz
[02:42] <Hobbsee> mmm...shiny
[02:42] <cafuego> mrAshley: If I had to move mine into a single panel it would certainly become an ugly heap of icons
[02:42] <hydrogen> of course
[02:42] <Hobbsee> speaking of which, there's a nice panel glass thing on the artwork wiki
[02:42] <hydrogen> you all could solve your panel problems
[02:42] <Hobbsee> only works for bright themes, though
[02:42] <hydrogen> by switching to the only useful DE
[02:42] <hydrogen> kde, that is
[02:42]  * Hobbsee was using kde
[02:42] <hydrogen> kicker++
[02:42]  * Hobbsee switched :P
[02:43]  * hydrogen is going to stay away from kde4 for a while
[02:44] <cps1966> why
[02:44]  * FunnyLookinHat would love to test KDE4 right now, but no easy way to do it
[02:44] <mrAshley> cafuego: sure, but consider, for example, that in order for me to close a program I might click the [x] in the top right of a window, and on a maximized window that is right beside the shutdown button. It's easy for someone to accidentally click on the wrong one.
[02:44] <FunnyLookinHat> Unless...  is there an easy way to test KDE4 now rather than compiling from source?
[02:44] <hydrogen> because the desktop is about one hundred steps back
[02:45] <hydrogen> and yes, there are packages for kubuntu (so for ubuntu as well) gutsy
[02:45] <cps1966> FunnyLookinHat:  mandriva-cooker has it installed in opt
[02:45] <cafuego> mrAshley: So move the window control buttons to the left, like on a Mac :-)
[02:45] <hydrogen> http://kubuntu.org/announcements/kde4-rc1.php
[02:45] <FunnyLookinHat> cps1966, so...  I'd have to run mandriva    gross.
[02:46] <mrAshley> in which case they're now near the application/places/system menus.
[02:46] <Hobbsee> there are hardy packages too
[02:46] <FunnyLookinHat> yeah, those packages are more of a sandbox though
[02:47] <FunnyLookinHat> not a usable environment last time I checked
[02:47] <cps1966> i have 3.97 here
[02:48] <mrAshley> I'm no apple-fanboy (quite the opposite) but I don't see why not shamlessly steal a good idea if it comes along!? ;)
[02:48] <hydrogen> because I've yet to see proof that it is a good idea
[02:48] <hydrogen> other than "I like it"
[02:48] <hydrogen> it got bikeshedded about for kde4 as well
[02:51] <cps1966> not crazy about kde4 menu layout though
[02:51] <mrAshley> well I don't know about "proof" other than using design study information, but common sense and a bit of ingenuity could help put commonly used items in better places.
[02:54]  * cafuego notes that is possibly the philosophy that made microsoft end up with the mess that is the vista start/shutdown item
[02:56] <cps1966> if you shut it down you cant catch all the viruses
[03:41] <pwnguin> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReportingPage
[03:42] <pwnguin> even the page that the KernelTeam started to report to the community was over before it even started
[04:18] <underwatercow> Was there an update the removed the games? :p
[04:19] <mrAshley> yes, and the office.
[04:19] <mrAshley> *open office
[04:19] <RAOF> Not if you were careful :)
[04:19] <underwatercow> lol
[04:19] <underwatercow> looks like writer is still installed
[04:21] <mrAshley> RAOF: does "careful" include putting back Gutsy? ;)
[04:23] <RAOF> mrAshley: No, just checking what aptitude wants to remove when you run "sudo aptitude full-upgrade", and hitting "no" until it does'nt want to remove anything you care about :)
[04:24] <mrAshley> RAOF: I used synaptic.. :P I've never upgraded to a fully alpha release before. :) I just assumed it would be sane-ish..
[04:25] <underwatercow> what was the reason the games disappeared?
[04:25] <underwatercow> lol
[04:25] <underwatercow> not that I played many of them anyway
[04:26] <RAOF> mrAshley: That's an incorrect assumption :)
[04:26] <RAOF> It's quite likely that ubuntu-desktop will be uninstallable at least a couple more times before we hit stable.
[04:26] <mrAshley> RAOF: That's a redundant claim, at this point. ;)  But thank you for it regardless.
[04:26] <RAOF> Each one of those times synaptic will remove programs if you hit 'upgrade'.
[04:27] <underwatercow> will it install them back on its own eventually? lol
[04:27] <RAOF> underwatercow: Only if you re-install ubuntu-desktop, or the particular program yourself.
[04:27] <RAOF> It's not automatic.
[04:27] <underwatercow> well then why did they remove?
[04:27] <underwatercow> lol
[04:28] <underwatercow> was a dependency changed?
[04:28] <RAOF> Yup.  Or a new package was uploaded that breaks older versions of some other package, or a name change, or...
[04:29] <underwatercow> lol
[04:29] <underwatercow> I guess that'll teach me to pay more attention to updates
[04:29] <RAOF> Ding!
[12:37] <Jeeves_> Hi there!
[12:38] <Jeeves_> The X-breakage, is that still the case?
[12:38] <IdleOne> guess if we have any questions we can ask you
[12:38] <IdleOne> what x breakage?
[12:38] <Jeeves_> IdleOne: See the topic :)
[12:38] <Jeeves_> Welcome to #ubuntu+1 "Home of the Hardy Heron" and X breakage
[12:39] <Jeeves_> I can work with bugs, but I prefer to use X :)
[12:39] <IdleOne> x works fine here
[12:40] <Jeeves_> IdleOne: In that, case... I'll give it a try. :)
[12:45] <Jeeves_> 'Installing the upgrades'
[12:45] <Jeeves_> !fast mirror++
[12:45] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about fast mirror++ - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[12:49] <dholbach> MOTU Q&A session in 11 minutes in #ubuntu-classroom
[14:39] <sharpie> i can't install mp3 codecs
[14:42] <bazhang> in Hardy sharpie?
[14:42] <sharpie> yeah, that's why i'm here =o
[14:42] <bazhang> ok--just wanted to make sure you weren't in the wrong channel
[14:42] <sharpie> np
[14:43] <bazhang> is vlc available? haven't checked the repos lately
[14:43] <Jeeves_> I just upgraded
[14:44] <Jeeves_> Some weird error with sudo not being able to resolve my hostname
[14:44] <sharpie> i just press the search codecs btn, it shows the small window with the progress bar and then the window disappears and nothing happens
[14:44] <Jeeves_> And some slocate stuff, but other than that it was ok
[14:46] <sharpie> is anyone even able to install mp3 codecs?
[14:46] <Jeeves_> sharpie: Which package should that be ?
[14:46] <sharpie> i have no idea
[14:47] <bazhang> sharpie: I'll boot up my machine and give it a try
[14:47] <sharpie> Jeeves_: i just press the search button when the codecs unavailable button appears
[14:47] <sharpie> dialog*
[14:47] <sharpie> that's how i installed in gutsy
[14:48] <Aondo> the fscheck at the 24th boot freezes at about 70-85%, is there a way to interrupt it befor it freeze? :P
[14:51] <bazhang> is anyone running as their day to day system?
[14:52] <sharpie> i got my mp3 working
[14:52] <bazhang> sharpie: How?
[14:52] <sharpie> i installed gstreamer-fluendo-mp3 (or something similar)
[14:52] <bazhang> gnome?
[14:52] <sharpie> manually installed from aptitude
[14:52] <bazhang> ok i'm using kde
[14:53] <sharpie> bazhang: shouldn't you be in #kubuntu then? :o
[14:53] <bazhang> xine iirc in my case
[14:53] <bazhang> sharpie: haha well kde users don't have a #kubuntu+1 channel
[14:54] <sharpie> bazhang: cause KDE sucks =D
[14:54] <hydrogen> yes
[14:54] <hydrogen> thats obviously the reason
[14:54] <bazhang> haha opinions differ on that one
[14:54] <sharpie> bazhand
[14:54] <hydrogen> there isn't a ubuntu channel for gutsy + kde on irc because the kde desktop sucks
[14:54] <bazhang> I like them all
[14:54] <sharpie> who do you think will win in a fight between RMS and linux torvalds?
[14:54] <hydrogen> that makes perfect sense logically
[14:55] <hydrogen> why didn't I ever make that connection before
[14:55] <sharpie> linus*
[14:55] <bazhang> he should change his name haha
[14:55] <sharpie> stallman's huge, and he's cool and stuff
[14:55] <hydrogen> stallman cool?
[14:55] <sharpie> and linus is skinny and lame =o
[14:55] <hydrogen> if you go for the zealotty type
[14:55] <hydrogen> sure
[14:55] <hydrogen> FREEDOM OR I'LL CUT MY WRISTS
[14:55] <sharpie> hydrogen: he lectured in Yale uni wearing a T-shirt
[14:56] <sharpie> while being bearfoot
[14:56] <sharpie> if that's not cool i dunno what is
[14:56] <hydrogen> hmm
[14:56] <sharpie> +he was attacked by ninjas there :P
[14:56] <hydrogen> that doesn't change his zealot status
[14:56] <hydrogen> which is quite riddiculous
[14:57] <hydrogen> allz I need to say is that every "new" feature in gnome over the last four or five releases has already been in kde for a while
[14:57] <sharpie> yeah but gnome pwns so much that even linus made patches to it :P
[14:58] <hydrogen> and usually has a lot more features in kde
[14:58] <sharpie> but kde is ugly :\
[14:58] <bazhang> this system (hardy) feels noticeably faster on the same hardware than Gutsy
[14:58] <bazhang> sharpie: they are the same except for one package
[14:58] <sharpie> actually, funny thing is, hardy boots in 20 seconds on VBox
[14:59] <sharpie> which is the exact same amount of time gutsy takes to boot
[14:59] <Lunks> actually afaik Linus consider gnome as not so good desktop enviroment
[14:59] <bazhang> on my install its like 5 seconds or something crazy like that :}
[14:59] <sharpie> bazhang: did you like...cancel all the processes and boot to a terminal?
[15:00] <WorkingOnWise> is Compiz Settings Manager and the cf tray icon broke for the time being?
[15:01] <bazhang> sharpie: nope the usual kde login
[15:01] <bazhang> this release will rock the linux world--seriously
[15:01] <sharpie> bazhang: does kde really boot that much faster than gnome? :S
[15:02] <bazhang> sharpie: they both boot faster; I may go for a dual boot of kubuntu and ubuntu to compare though :}
[15:02] <sharpie> bazhang: what's ur system specs?
[15:03] <bazhang> sharpie: core duo thinkpad intel 945 video gma 2 gb ram
[15:03] <sharpie> bazhang: hm
[15:03] <sharpie> bazhang: you shouldn't boot THAT much faster than me
[15:03] <bazhang> sharpie: kubuntu gutsy was much slower on this machine
[15:04] <bazhang> maybe ten seconds plus you are in vm
[15:04] <WorkingOnWise> bazhang: do u boot off a SSD?
[15:04] <sharpie> bazhang: i have an amd athlon X2 4800+, 2gb CL4 ram, geforce 8600GT+
[15:04] <sharpie> not the best on the market but certainly reasonable
[15:04] <bazhang> no, just a regular hdd WorkingOnWise
[15:04] <bazhang> sharpie: but this in a vm for you right?
[15:05] <Lunks> may I ask, what's 'CL4'?
[15:05] <sharpie> bazhang: um, it's some kind of latency, the lower the CL the faster
[15:05] <sharpie> oops, Lunks
[15:05] <bazhang> does medibuntu have hardy repos yet?
[15:06] <sharpie> Lunks: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAS_latency
[15:06] <dr_evil2> I updated hardy and now the GUI deadlocks after about 5 minutes of useage, ctrl+alt+bs doesn't work, numlock doesn't work anymore, but mouse cursor still does mode
[15:07] <dr_evil2> any idea on that?
[15:07] <sharpie> um, does anyone know how to move from GNOME to KDE?
[15:07] <sharpie> i wanna try KDE on my VM
[15:08] <bazhang> install kubuntu-desktop
[15:08] <sharpie> bazhang: no, i wanna move on my existing installation
[15:08] <sharpie> bazhang: i know it's possible, i just dunno how =o
[15:08] <bazhang> sharpie: kde only?
[15:09] <sharpie> bazhang: what do u mean kde only :S
[15:09] <bazhang> sharpie: download the kubuntu iso or use gnome and kde in the same vm? choose by session that is
[15:10] <sharpie> bazhang: no, i mean, use kde instead of gnome
[15:10] <sharpie> bazhang: i'll google a bit =o
[15:10] <bazhang> sharpie: install kubuntu-desktop, then in the login window under session choose kde
[15:10] <sharpie> bazhang: i don't wanna download the entire OS again
[15:11] <bazhang> sharpie: kubuntu-desktop is a big amount of packages though :}
[15:11] <bazhang> sharpie: no need to install a new system
[15:11] <sharpie> bazhang: yeah, well, i might do it later
[15:11] <sharpie> bazhang: downloading from BT atm..not much bandwidth to spare
[15:11] <bazhang> hehe
[15:12] <WorkingOnWise> sharpie: afaik, if u install kubuntu desktop, you get all of kubuntu, and ubuntu too. the only diff between them is kubuntu is ubuntu on the kde Destop Enviroment. the kernel and adrivers, all non gui code is the same for both
[15:12] <sharpie> WorkingOnWise: yeah i know =o
[15:12] <WorkingOnWise> so I musta missed something..
[15:13] <sharpie> how about if i install kde?
[15:13] <sharpie> like, aptitude install kde
[15:14] <WorkingOnWise> sharpie: are u asking if that gives u kubuntu?
[15:14] <bazhang> sharpie: kubuntu-desktop
[15:14] <sharpie> bazhang: but what about kde >_<
[15:14] <bazhang> no medibuntu repos right now for hardy :{
[15:15] <Lunks> bazhang: just use gutsy ones, no problem on it
[15:15] <bazhang> sharpie: you want to use the kde desktop?
[15:15] <bazhang> Lunks: cheers!
[15:15] <sharpie> bazhang: yes
[15:15] <sharpie> bazhang: damnit i'll install kubuntu-desktop then >.<
[15:15] <bazhang> then that's the way sharpie want a link to confirm it?
[15:16] <sharpie> bazhang: nah, no need
[15:16] <WorkingOnWise> sharpie: think Camaro/Firebird
[15:16] <WorkingOnWise> same chassis, engine, drive train...
[15:17] <sharpie> WorkingOnWise: WHAT?! :|
[15:17] <WorkingOnWise> changer to the body and trim make the m unique
[15:17] <sharpie> are you talking about cars? :|
[15:17] <bazhang> http://www.watchingthenet.com/switch-between-gnome-and-kde-desktops-in-ubuntu-or-kubuntu.html sharpie
[15:17] <WorkingOnWise> bazhang: yeah...thats what I said  :)
[15:18] <bazhang> WorkingOnWise: you are wise indeed :}
[15:19] <bazhang> sharpie: and make sure to choose 'make kde default' :}
[15:19] <sharpie> bazhang: lol, only going to try it on hardy
[15:20] <h3sp4wn> They are unique but not really in any useful way
[15:20] <bazhang> true
[15:23] <sharpie> irssi is so much better than xchat :D
[15:29] <avatar_> sharpie: you know /disco voor disco colours in irssi?
[15:31] <sharpie> avatar_: i have no idea what you just said
[15:32] <avatar_>  /disco gives nice colors in irssi :)
[15:32] <sharpie> avatar_: before i try it, how do i cancel it? \:
[15:35] <Lunks> lol
[15:35] <sharpie> ok, thx
[15:35] <sharpie> it disconnects
[15:35] <sharpie> checked it on another terminal >_>
[15:35] <sharpie> u suck >_>
[15:35] <sharpie> i hate ppl who do that crap in irc :/
[15:36] <sharpie> like the ppl who tell you to do /server accept
[15:36] <Lunks> the only funny one's "Press ALT+F4 to see my photo"
[15:36] <sharpie> never seen that one
[15:37] <sharpie> people are much more likely to fall for /server accept than alt+F4
[15:38] <bazhang> so will using the medibuntu repos now in hardy (the ones for gutsy) create problems down the line? I just want the one package--so no real need to even enable the repos I suppose
[15:39] <bazhang> libdvdcss2
[16:02] <LimCore> hello devels
[16:02] <LimCore> how about make ubuntu to include some good jabber client
[16:03] <Tm_T> erm?
[16:03] <Tm_T> what's wrong with Kopete?
[16:03] <LimCore> instead including sucky clients, how about including one really comfortable
[16:03] <Tm_T> LimCore: like?
[16:03] <LimCore> kopete is bug ridden;
[16:04] <LimCore> pidgin would be ok, but obvious thing like gnutifications are 1) not enabled   2) used brain dead skin that do not present the message   by default
[16:04] <LimCore> just fix the default and it will be close to commerciall solutions in terms of beeing comfortable, imho
[16:04] <Tm_T> .
[16:05] <Tm_T> LimCore: anyway, file a bug if there's not one already
[16:05] <Tm_T> bug/wish
[16:05] <LimCore> Tm_T: kopete likes to crashes now and then,  try GPG encryption and it shows encrypted text and/or HTML in some parts;  administrating groups have issues, simmilar marking chats
[16:06] <Tm_T> LimCore: I have no issues
[16:06] <LimCore> Tm_T: I'm excelent beta tester
[16:06] <Tm_T> LimCore: then please provide bug reports thanks
[16:06] <LimCore> give me any version of any program, I will find bugs in it, unless its hello world
[16:07] <Tm_T> I know
[16:07] <jgoss> the pidgin issues should be filed upstream. since i think ubuntu just uses the default settings.
[16:07] <LimCore> Tm_T: where exacly to report them, to have them fixed in next ubuntu?  if upstream will be too bussy
[16:07] <Tm_T> LimCore: upstream and/or bugs.ubuntu.com ?
[16:07] <LimCore> jgoss: upstream people are usually too lazy
[16:07] <Tm_T> LimCore: anyway, finding bugs is only lesser half of beta testing
[16:08] <Tm_T> they need to be properly reported
[16:08] <jgoss> i don't think they are lazy. they just don't place much value on the libnotify/guification part.
[16:08] <LimCore> if you want to have something fix you usually have to just do it... I can perhaps be devel of say ubuntu,  but not devel in 100 different projectws right? :)  and ubuntu pathces can be given to upstream
[16:08] <LimCore> jgoss: I was talking in general here;   and ignoring user needs is 2nd popular problem
[16:09] <LimCore> jgoss: there probably is reason why most programs have bubble popups (from Skype to Kadu/Gadu-Gadu)
[16:09] <jgoss> i don't use it often. i'm just saying it would probably have to be dealt upstream.
[16:09]  * dr_evil is happy with ubunut as long as X doesn't freeze
[16:10] <dr_evil> and perhaps when keystrokes arent lost ;)
[16:10] <Tm_T> LimCore: anyway, thanks for your interest :)
[16:10] <Tm_T> LimCore: usability is one of biggest things in Ubuntu
[16:10] <LimCore> jgoss: it is so cool that I have to stop programming, move mouse, and click, to see what someone is writting to me. If only the corporations now, but they keep taking that fun away from users ;)
[16:10] <jgoss> i don't argue against that.
[16:11] <LimCore> or alt tab away from my pressious code, its just wrong
[16:11] <jgoss> i would prefer notifications also.
[16:11] <LimCore> ubuntu pollicy is to apply patches (both code and settings) to apps right?
[16:11] <Lunks> I've been hanging around on #pidgin and most likely no notifier will ever be on pidgin by default
[16:12] <LimCore> jgoss: even more, default skins are useless in gnutifications... they show only "Foo messages you" .. but do not show the most imporatnt part - body of message
[16:12] <Lunks> at least that's what devs state
[16:12] <LimCore> Lunks: yes, that is why I written that most devels are laz^H too bussy, and not caring so much about users needs
[16:12] <LimCore> is ubutnu a distro that can be fixing such things for itself at least?
[16:12] <jgoss> i preferred libnotify when i used pidgin.
[16:13] <Lunks> even if I disagree, I don't believe this is really about being lazy/not caring about users needs
[16:13] <LimCore> jgoss: well, having it working in either tehcnical way would be good
[16:13] <Tomcat_> libnotify is cool. :)
[16:13] <dr_evil> LimCore why don't ou just install your prefered messenger app?
[16:13] <LimCore> dr_evil: I couldn't find any _good_ jabber or multi client
[16:14] <LimCore> and it's irritating that commerciall/propertiary apps are ahead, so I would like to change it, since we are so close in some places its matter of few options
[16:14] <Tomcat_> LimCore: I'm perfectly happy with Pidgin/libnotify... I'm even installing it for my Windows friends. :-)
[16:15] <Lunks> bad thing about pidgin is its slow developing, not lazyness. I'm not a coder, but I was chatting about it recently. I'm an ex-windows user (like almost everyone else) and used Miranda IM, which is like Pidgin/Trillian. It's open-source also and amazes me on how Pidgin/Miranda relates when comes to new code/new stuff
[16:15] <Tomcat_> LimCore: I guess the problem is rather that people might not agree with your decision. I know a lot of people that like pidgin.
[16:15] <LimCore> Tomcat_: it didnt work on debian afair... how to use it? install libnotify plugin, and then what? to have popups, WITH message, when certail (selected) people are writting to me
[16:15] <Lunks> No matter what, Pidgin is always behind, in philosophy or code itself
[16:15] <LimCore> Tomcat_: again, 99% of users of biggest messangers have this type of notifications active, and I guess most like it
[16:15] <dr_evil> LimCore I see. I usually use my win2k notebook for ICQ/MSN, and linux just as fileserver and for coding
[16:16] <Tomcat_> LimCore: Install pidgin-libnotify, enable the plugin. No advanced things like "only selected people" though.
[16:16] <LimCore> Tomcat_: so I will be annoyed with "foo gone online/offline" for each of my 100 contacts instead of 10 important
[16:16] <Tomcat_> LimCore: Yes, and I agree with you that libnotify should be installed and enabled by default, which is easy. However, I don't agree that the default free software messengers are bad.
[16:17] <LimCore> and message from my lover will instantly popup on my desktop?    Sorry for that. :-) I got 50 buddies and it works out quite well.
[16:18] <LimCore> for me the above solutions suck, what can I do about it?
[16:18] <jgoss> maybe make a spec about it.
[16:18] <LimCore> how/where to do it exacly?
[16:18] <Tomcat_> LimCore: Install another program... suggest your features to the developers of the app and/or write out bounties (offering money).
[16:19]  * LimCore blackmails some devels
[16:19] <Tomcat_> I agree that the free software suggestions process is not ideal, but that's what we have. :o
[16:19] <LimCore> Tomcat_: which program fully supports advanced notifications?
[16:19] <LimCore> no, I think it totally sucks, and here is why:
[16:19] <Tomcat_> LimCore: No idea. Didn't you say you know commercial solutions?
[16:20] <LimCore> yeah skype... but I prefer jabb
[16:20] <LimCore> Kadu (open verion of gadu-gadu) have awesome notifications
[16:20] <jgoss> LimCore,  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ you can create a new spec there.
[16:20] <LimCore> among with about 50 configuration options for all subsystems, now that is a good code
[16:20] <LimCore> it was done like 3 years ago
[16:21] <Tomcat_> 50 conf options is really not my idea of good. :-)
[16:21] <LimCore> Tomcat_: with [x] advanced
[16:21] <Tomcat_> Oh, alright then. :D
[16:21] <LimCore> and other programs are so behind this small polish application Kadu, wtf
[16:21] <LimCore> jgoss: ok
[16:22] <Tomcat_> I think the problem is that you think free software development works like commercial development (or should work like it), while that's far from the truth.
[16:22] <LimCore> yeap, it lacks quality therefore
[16:22] <Tomcat_> We're not always competing with anyone, neither with commercial apps nor with other free software apps.
[16:22] <Tomcat_> We're not trying to gain market share.
[16:23] <LimCore> what is the end result for users?
[16:23] <Tomcat_> We're not trying to be best, but also experiment.
[16:23] <Tomcat_> The goal is to create free software the way the developers see fit.
[16:23] <LimCore> instead users
[16:23] <Tomcat_> The end result are applications that some people like and some people don't like.
[16:23] <LimCore> because it's make for devels, not users
[16:23] <LimCore> I hoped ubutnu tried to overcome this?
[16:24] <jgoss> developers are users also. but there always room for improvement.
[16:24] <Tomcat_> Yes, but Ubuntu are not the ones developing instant messengers.
[16:24] <jgoss> just a lack of resources for a lot of projects.
[16:24] <Tomcat_> Everybody in free software has their own personal goals.
[16:24]  * LimCore puts a resource tag on self
[16:24] <Tomcat_> Some people will develop awesome applications.
[16:24] <skyfalcon866> when alpha 2 comes will i have to download a new cd image or could i upgrade to it?
[16:24] <Lunks> I believe that's what's all about. :P
[16:24] <Tomcat_> But some people will just develop something that works and is horrible to use.
[16:24] <Lunks> Pidgin doesn't feel like being up to commercial apps.
[16:24] <Lunks> Unlike Miranda, for example.
[16:24] <LimCore> if there are resouces to fix an IM to be usable, then what?  assume there is a .patch to do it.  How it is easy to give that to  a) all ubuntu users  b) all linux users
[16:25] <Tomcat_> If people stop using bad free software (like you suggest), the developers have the freedom to continue developing bad software, or they can change course. But nobody forces them to.
[16:25] <Lunks> It's free, but it intends to go against pidgin/trillian as a multi im
[16:25] <LimCore> ok, so which jabber client is _good_ then
[16:25] <Tomcat_> LimCore: Add the patch to the software, package it, put it into a repository or try to get it into universe.
[16:26] <LimCore> advanced notifcations, filtering, logging, and shit
[16:26] <Tomcat_> LimCore: That's a total subjective question. I love pidgin as my jabber client.
[16:26] <jgoss> watch the language =]
[16:26] <LimCore> oh btw reason to not use kopete: it takes 10 minutes (?!?!?!?!!!!) to open the log, on dual core 2ghz
[16:26] <skyfalcon866> when alpha 2 comes will i have to download a new cd image or could i upgrade to it?
[16:26] <Tomcat_> skyfalcon866: You can just update... no big difference for alpha 2.
[16:27] <skyfalcon866> is it safe to dual boot alpha with stable ubuntu
[16:27] <Tomcat_> skyfalcon866: Yes.
[16:27] <skyfalcon866> ok
[16:27] <skyfalcon866> 10gigs of space enough for alpha ?
[16:27] <hydrogen> unless hardy comes with a broken version of grub!
[16:28] <Tomcat_> skyfalcon866: Yep. Depends on your usage though.. 5 GB should be enough for a basic version and no data. :)
[16:28] <skyfalcon866> ok will use jfs to minimize usage
[16:28] <Tomcat_> hydrogen: Yeah, I just hope that won't happen. :D
[16:28] <skyfalcon866> less overhead than ext3
[16:30] <skyfalcon866> where do i report bugs in kubuntu
[16:31] <hydrogen> !bugs
[16:31] <ubotu> If you find a bug in Ubuntu or any of its derivatives, please file a bug report at: http://bugs.ubuntu.com/  -  Bugs in/wishes for the bots can be filed at http://launchpad.net/products/ubuntu-bots
[16:31] <Tomcat_> LimCore: If you really want to change something, my suggestion is to discuss changes on the project mailing lists (asking devs & users about their thoughts) or offer a bounty (with some money). A bounty could also initiate a totally new messenger project...
[16:31] <LimCore> Tomcat_: perhaps a business model would be good to get funds for development?
[16:32] <Tomcat_> LimCore: The business model of most IT companies makes less sense than the free software development model. ;)
[16:33] <LimCore> that must be why everyone uses wengopone or crashable ekiga, instead skype
[16:33] <Tomcat_> LimCore: Also, free software projects need leadership and management... so you might just as well try to become leader of such a project. Problem is that most people won't do what you want if you don't do coding yourself... because that's still a big amount of work.
[16:34] <skyfalcon866> where would i upload a new version of a program?
[16:34] <Tomcat_> LimCore: I know how to code, and I would gladly help in creating an "uber messenger" (if I had the time). But there's no project aiming to do this, and I personally don't see a need for this anyway, because I like pidgin. :D
[16:35] <LimCore> Tomcat_: how to have popups, for given people, showing me what they written
[16:35] <LimCore> *baloon popups
[16:35] <Tomcat_> LimCore: I completely understand your problems here, but the thing is that you try to apply commercial development to free software projects, and that won't work. If you don't like free software, you are free not to use it.
[16:35] <dr_evil> and again, GUI is completely frozen. I'm logged in with telnet, and compiz.real is using 100% CPU. any one can help me?
[16:35] <LimCore> Tomcat_: is there at least a payable solution, on linux
[16:36] <LimCore> if not, then I guess something is wrong... no good free apps nor payable ones even
[16:36] <Tomcat_> LimCore: As I said, I don't know about most messengers... I use pidgin and I'm quite happy.
[16:36] <jgoss> dr_evil, can you killall compiz.real over telnet?
[16:36] <LimCore> Tomcat_: what if someone would code patches to make thoes parts mentioned more user friendly
[16:37] <Tomcat_> LimCore: ... then you could create packages out of it and make them available to the Ubuntu users. Good solution imho.
[16:37] <h3sp4wn> LimCore: You can use BitlBee
[16:37] <dr_evil> jgoss no it keeps running
[16:37] <h3sp4wn> Then everything just goes into your irc client (I would say that is perfectly user friendly)
[16:37] <LimCore> ok cool
[16:37] <LimCore> see u later
[16:37] <LimCore> :)
[16:37] <Tomcat_> LimCore: It has actually happened sometimes... if a project doesn't work the way most people would like, it forks = there are two versions going into seperate directions.
[16:37] <jgoss> dr_evil, does killall -9 compiz.real work?
[16:38] <dr_evil> yes that killed it
[16:38] <LimCore> Tomcat_: but can it be made default easly for ubutnu users, or are there tons of bureucracy and incopetence to block it
[16:38] <h3sp4wn> LimCore: people have different definitions of easy
[16:39] <Tomcat_> LimCore: No, it's quite straightforward... find (or create) a solution, present it as a specification (see link from jgoss), then discuss with Ubuntu devs to include it.
[16:39] <LimCore> h3sp4wn: so ask user at installation:   [x] enable nice notifications (Skype/gtalk style)    Note: you can change that in configuration->plugins
[16:40] <h3sp4wn> LimCore: nice is not defined either
[16:40] <dr_evil> jgoss GUI works again, anything I should report as bugreport?
[16:41] <h3sp4wn> for me nice is the settings somewhere in ~/.* that I can find with grep and change - I can never remember where anything is in gui's
[16:41] <Tomcat_> LimCore: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/usb-connect-notification <--- See this spec... it's about popups when a user connects a USB device. This way you could get messenger popups into Ubuntu.
[16:41] <LimCore> Tomcat_: ok, so just lets make pidgin use that
[16:41] <LimCore> with advanced config options
[16:41] <jgoss> dr_evil,  check if it's been reported first. there are a lot of compiz bugs.
[16:42] <LimCore> or include sender to notifiy event and filter notif-server side
[16:42] <Tomcat_> LimCore: Problem is that there's no (coded) solution for what you want... libnotify popups have no advanced settings.
[16:42] <dr_evil> why is compiz even running? the system is running in vesa mode anyway
[16:42] <LimCore> omg libnotify is also not developed O_o ?
[16:42]  * LimCore bangs head
[16:42] <h3sp4wn> Tomcat_: I dunno why the popups are good - If it just add's it to /media/foo and adds an icon to the desktop I don't see what the popup achieves
[16:43] <Tomcat_> h3sp4wn: I just took that as an example, not because I support it. ;)
[16:43] <Tomcat_> h3sp4wn: I wouldn't like too many popups either... if I plug in a USB device, it starts working... if I plug it in, why should I be notified that I just plugged it in? ;D
[16:44] <Tomcat_> h3sp4wn: No need to go all the way XP ;D
[16:44] <h3sp4wn> Tomcat_: Exactly (Solaris does this quite well and still has gnome)
[16:44] <Tomcat_> "Info: You just put something in the trash!" ;P
[16:44] <LimCore> http://www.galago-project.org/docs/api/libnotify/annotated.html  huh not very advanced...?
[16:44] <Tomcat_> "Info: You just copied a file"
[16:45] <LimCore> http://www.galago-project.org/docs/api/libgalago/annotated.php  also not very good
[16:45] <Tomcat_> LimCore: That's libnotify... it's the pidgin plugin that's not advanced.
[16:45] <h3sp4wn> Tomcat_: I am more interested in the telepathy spec but to me that is just a super advanced zshrc
[16:45] <LimCore> this above are the fremeworks you mentionned?
[16:45] <dr_evil> "Info: dev/sda1 is almost full"
[16:45] <Tomcat_> LimCore: libnotify is a library for popups, yes.
[16:45] <h3sp4wn> (Getting closer to it bit by bit)
[16:46] <Tomcat_> h3sp4wn: Any good ones you can suggest? I like the telepathy stuff, but I haven't seen much progress the last 6 months.
[16:46] <Tomcat_> LimCore: libnotify can display *anything*... the question is: What should pidgin send to libnotify. And that's where an advanced config has to be.
[16:47] <h3sp4wn> zstyle ':completion:*:*:kill:*' menu yes select \n zstyle ':completion:*:kill:*'   force-list always (I haven't got it working with sudo yet though but it lets you tab complete kill)
[16:48] <Tomcat_> h3sp4wn: Where's the connection to telepathy? :o
[16:48] <h3sp4wn> I only spend short bits of time messing with it - but if it was done properly then the commandline should just autocomplete all the time
[16:48] <h3sp4wn> Tomcat_: The shell knowing what you want
[16:48] <h3sp4wn> and presenting it in a nice way
[16:48] <Tomcat_> h3sp4wn: Oh you mean telepathy like "thought transfer"... I thought you were talking about the telepathy technology (zero configuration service detection or something)
[16:49] <Tomcat_> h3sp4wn: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telepathy_%28software%29 ;)
[16:51] <Tomcat_> LimCore: Btw, that's the page of the pidgin plugin... http://sourceforge.net/projects/gaim-libnotify
[16:52] <LimCore> firefox flash is broken btw
[16:52] <LimCore> thx Tomcat_
[16:53] <bazhang> would it be advisable to check medibuntu for updates every so often for packages installed from there, or do they remain fairly static? the packages in question are libdvdcss2 and win32codecs
[16:54] <h3sp4wn> bazhang: Debian-multimedia updates win32codecs every so often
[16:54] <h3sp4wn> Sometimes the available ones recommended by ubuntu are older (but I just wget the deb from debian-multimedia)
[16:54] <bazhang> h3sp4wn: cheers! will check every so often then--not that I will be playing many dvds on this machine--nice to know nonetheless :}
[17:05] <h3sp4wn> bazhang: I take it you got your ee working right now ?
[17:12] <bazhang> h3sp4wn: sure do; perhaps a custom version of hardy would be nice for it--trying a pclinuxos remaster on it atm :}
[17:14] <h3sp4wn> bazhang: Only problem with that patch for madwifi is it breaks all non x86 targets so it won't be added
[17:15] <bazhang> h3sp4wn: well there is that :] I actually tried gutsy on it a while back and apart from wireless it was very nice
[17:15] <h3sp4wn> bazhang: I doubt they are willing to have a whole new version of madwifi just for the eepc in the default kernel
[17:16] <h3sp4wn> (Unless they sell an obscene amount)
[17:16] <bazhang> h3sp4wn: that's true--though some debian devs are cooking something up right (a private project hehe)
[17:16] <bazhang> err right now
[17:40] <LimCore> where the hell is mount in ubuntu?
[17:40] <LimCore> the reall mount, with -C -S options
[17:40] <Tm_T> not in hell atleast
[17:40] <LimCore> (erm, losetup actually)
[17:41] <LimCore> hmm how about installing loop-aes-utils by default? it's triny anyway
[17:41] <h3sp4wn> LimCore: the "real" mount ? is the ubuntu one imaginary
[17:42] <LimCore> h3sp4wn: default one is encryptions challanged
[17:43] <roe> what is the name of the package comes pre-installed in ubuntu that manages photo libraries?
[17:44] <LimCore> the default ubuntu kernel seems to provide only one loop /dev/loop0 ?  how to spawn more loops?
[17:44] <roe> sorry wrong channel
[17:45] <LimCore> sorry never mind... there are 8 loops
[17:47]  * LimCore slaps self
[17:52] <LimCore> losetup -T -e aes-256 /dev/loop7 -C 1000 -Sfoo ./data.img   --->  ioctl: LOOP_SET_STATUS: Invalid argument, requested cipher or key length (256 bits) not supported by kernel
[17:52] <LimCore> any idea?
[17:53] <LimCore>  /proc/crypto   shows  aes  with max keysize  : 32
[17:58] <LimCore> launchpad.net is quite pretty :)
[18:02] <sharpie> uh, i installed kubuntu-desktop and all its dependencies (around 250mbs) and now i removed kubuntu-desktop but it only removed that single package, how can i remove all the other KDE programs that came with it? :/
[18:02] <Tm_T> sharpie: see topic
[18:03] <sharpie> ...Also, I did that on hardy heron.
[18:03] <sharpie> happy now Tm_T ?
[18:03] <Tm_T> sharpie: nah, you ask "newbie" support for something in (pre)alpha state, I'm far from happy
[18:04] <Tm_T> sharpie: anyway, you'll have better luck in #kubuntu or #ubuntu
[18:04] <sharpie> well, i'd ask in #ubuntu but i did it in hardy, different repos and all =o
[18:04] <Tm_T> false
[18:05] <Tm_T> sharpie: also small recommendation, if you can't handle simple package management, reconsider using unreleased alpha/beta software
[18:05] <Tm_T> sharpie: anyway, I hope you get help to your problem, good luck
[18:06] <sharpie> Tm_T: if it's so simple why can't you just tell me the solution?
[18:06] <Tm_T> off ->
[18:06] <h3sp4wn> sharpie: Just use aptitude
[18:06] <sharpie> h3sp4wn: yes, but how do i know which packages it installed :/
[18:06] <sharpie> h3sp4wn: i don't wanna go 1 package at a time
[18:07] <h3sp4wn> sharpie: aptitude purge kdelibs-data kdelibs4c2a
[18:08] <sharpie> h3sp4wn: thanks.
[18:17] <LimCore> is loopaes broken in amd64 version?
[18:23] <h3sp4wn> You tell us
[18:23] <Lunks> h3sp4wn: hey, looks like it was all my ram's fault
[18:23] <Lunks> not hardy kernel.
[18:23] <h3sp4wn> Lunks: I had recently some subtle ram errors
[18:23] <Lunks> I booted to windows and after using it for sometime, it started rebooting. :P
[18:24] <h3sp4wn> Massively irritating as because it was only in 1500-2000Mb range and I was using xfce at the time - it corrupted tons of stuff
[18:24] <h3sp4wn> (including the backups)
[18:26] <Lunks> too bad =P
[18:28] <h3sp4wn> Lunks: I will never buy anything other than corsair (for workstations) and whatever the recommended ECC for the board is for a server
[18:28] <Lunks> I've got a kingston
[18:29] <Lunks> 2x512mb kingston ddr 400
[18:29] <Lunks> I switched one of them to a generic 512mb one
[18:29] <Lunks> and it's working great now, which is kinda ironic. :P
[18:36] <h3sp4wn> Lunks: Did memtest86 find the error ?
[18:40] <Lunks> h3sp4wn: never used it. :P Should I? =P
[18:40] <h3sp4wn> Lunks: Well thats what its for
[18:41] <Lunks> haha ok, I'll try it
[18:53] <LimCore> is it just me, or loop aes do not work in amd64 ubuntu?
[19:29] <cps1966> anyone got eee pc kubuntu works just fine on them hardy does
[19:35] <LimCore> anyone here have amd64 ubuntu 7.10 please?    Neither nvidia nor ATI (fglrx) will compile with it.
[22:07] <DanaG> I just went back to 2.6.22.
[22:08] <bernier> 2.6.22-14-generic
[22:08] <bernier> supposed to work?
[22:08] <DanaG> I don't have ATI, so I can't help beyond there, unfortunately.
[22:08] <bernier> ok
[22:08] <DanaG> And I'm going to go to lunch.
[22:09] <bernier> good appetite