[01:57] <Unit193> juliank: Downside to Ubuntu's command-not-found is that it doesn't have update-command-not-found. :/
[05:11] <teward> rbasak: infinity: did we ever figure out the issue?  (Yesterday was a crazy hellish day, I apparently was not straight-thinking on a regular basis...)
[08:00] <cpaelzer> niedbalski: see question by bdmurray above - and if possible ack in the bug so the SRU Team sees it
[08:38] <rbasak> teward: I think LocutusOfBorg pointed out what to cherry-pick from a different package to you or something?
[08:39] <LocutusOfBorg> yes
[08:39] <LocutusOfBorg> on the bug report, I uploaded the patch in my ppa
[08:40] <LocutusOfBorg> btw completely not a luajit fault
[08:40] <LocutusOfBorg> and please don't force me to look at that hell again
[08:52] <didrocks> cpaelzer: rbasak: hey! I have a small question for you: how do we request some packages to get autoimported in your git machinery? and how long will it take to get the first import done? I have 3 potential packages which can help us on our new community theme effort (only autoimport, we won't push to them yet as we discussed during the Rally)
[09:11] <cpaelzer> didrocks: https://git.launchpad.net/usd-importer/tree/gitubuntu/source-package-whitelist.txt
[09:12] <cpaelzer> didrocks: this should mostly be it for the sense of auto-importing
[09:12] <didrocks> cpaelzer: excellent, let me do a MP against it
[09:12] <cpaelzer> didrocks: but nacc / rbasak work on getting everything imported so a lot of things might (have) change
[09:12] <cpaelzer> for now that should be it AFAIK
[09:13] <cpaelzer> yeah worst case it is a simple MP and you'll get told in the review of it
[09:13] <didrocks> how long is the first import taking approx, once this is merged? (so that I can give some timeline for the community)
[09:13] <cpaelzer> didrocks: would a single manual import help you?
[09:13] <didrocks> doing immediately :)
[09:13] <didrocks> yes!
[09:13] <didrocks> just to get them started
[09:13] <cpaelzer> let me take a look then at a manual import
[09:13] <didrocks> ah, excellent :)
[09:13] <cpaelzer> didrocks: list of packages?
[09:14] <didrocks> cpaelzer: gnome-shell, gtk+3.0, gnome-themes-standard
[09:17] <cpaelzer> didrocks: all three imports are running - no commit ment on duration or success chance
[09:17] <cpaelzer> didrocks: will let you know
[09:17] <didrocks> cpaelzer: haha, no worry, thanks a lot! :)
[09:22] <cpaelzer> didrocks: gz to your spotlight btw!
[09:25] <didrocks> cpaelzer: thanks ;)
[09:46] <cpaelzer> didrocks: sorry - had to abort for a shrotage on storage, but looked good so far - rerun after some cleanup
[09:47] <didrocks> cpaelzer: thx for keeping me posted (and good luck!)
[09:48] <rbasak> cpaelzer: thanks :)
[09:49] <rbasak> didrocks: please note that we expect to rebase the world still.
[09:50] <didrocks> rbasak: yeah, not a biggie, I just need a way for the community to git clone and get easily the current content from ubuntu, they won't branch from it
[09:56] <rbasak> OK great. The whitelist should be sufficient for that I think.
[10:33] <juliank> Unit193: Well, if we merge it would have both the static db and update-command-not-found :D
[10:35] <juliank> I'm not sure if the local one should take precedent or if they should be merged somehow
[10:35] <juliank> u-c-n-f is far less effective than the ones shipped in the package.
[10:36] <juliank> like, no alternatives
[10:50] <doko> ginggs: the autopkg test are far by complete, but could you have a look at the ones triggered by gdal?
[11:00] <doko> cpaelzer, rbasak: rdma-core now builds libibverbs*, which wants to promote to main. server team was subcribed to it. please can you file a MIR for that?
[11:03] <cpaelzer> I was following rdma-core for dpdk reasons
[11:03] <cpaelzer> yes I can file the MIR
[11:04] <cpaelzer> did id now complete in Debian?
[11:04] <rbasak> rdma-core is in universe though?
[11:04] <cpaelzer> IIRC on wednesday it wasn't
[11:04] <cpaelzer> rbasak: it is meant to replace  libibverbs1 (and many more)
[11:04] <cpaelzer> which is in main
[11:04] <rbasak> Ah
[11:04] <cpaelzer> transition from many (MANY++) sources to one source
[11:05] <cpaelzer> which means many source pkg -> rdma-core
[11:05] <rbasak> I see
[11:05] <cpaelzer> doko: let me just infishe the debdiff here and then I'll file one
[11:06] <ginggs> doko: i will look
[11:07] <rbasak> Looks like it's pulled in by libvirt, ceph and boost.
[11:08] <rbasak> Also tgt
[11:26] <cpaelzer> doko: rbasak: filed 1732892
[11:26] <cpaelzer> doko: it is a bit of a special case as it is a reorg of the source packages - so for all in main before this is kind of clear but as the source now contains more ...
[11:26] <cpaelzer> e.g. the security POV on the case might be different now
[11:26] <cpaelzer> anyway the bug to process it now exists - thanks for the ping doko
[11:28] <cpaelzer> didrocks: gnome-themes-standard complete (https://code.launchpad.net/~usd-import-team/ubuntu/+source/gnome-themes-standard/+git/gnome-themes-standard), others still running
[12:34] <doko> rbasak: one more thing ... who could look at the postgresql-10 triggered autopkg test failures?
[12:35] <doko> citus, postgresql-plproxy, psqlodbc
[12:37] <xnox> doko, some of these were due to out-of-date postgresql-common and just need retry with like all-proposed. let me double check things.
[12:38] <xnox> doko, the thing to grep is "supported-versions: WARNING: Unknown Ubuntu release: 18.04"
[12:38] <Laney> you can trigger with just pg-common from proposed if it's that
[12:39] <xnox> citrus pg-repack postgresql-plproxy psqlodbc look retriable
[12:40] <xnox> pglogical looks like a perl/postgresql regression?
[12:43] <xnox> Laney, hmmmm imho pglogical/armhf should be bad tested.... it is always failed everywhere else.
[12:43] <cpaelzer> didrocks: gnome-shell complete as well, one more to go ...
[13:42] <ginggs> doko: these look good now http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/packages/p/pdal/bionic/armhf http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/packages/o/otb/bionic/armhf
[13:55] <doko> ginggs: nice, thanks
[13:55] <abeato> sil2100, hey, I've noticed that ubuntu-image is pulled when installing livecd-rootfs now, why is that? It clobbers ubuntu-image from the snap
[15:37] <nacc> cpaelzer: which version of the snap did you use to import (thi sis important)
[15:42] <didrocks> cpaelzer: seems gtk+3.0 is taking a lot more time (just checked and not here yet), thanks a lot for the 2 others! I will use that opportunity to get familiar with the repo layout as well
[17:08] <nacc> cpaelzer: did you a skip-applied import?
[17:08] <nacc> cpaelzer: also, i guess i didn't tell you this before, but please update the whitelist ifyou manually import packages
[17:08] <nacc> cpaelzer: otherwiset the repo will immediately fall out of date
[17:41] <BlessJah> is AWS image naming convention ducumented anywhere?
[17:54] <Faux> There's https://bugs.launchpad.net/cloud-images/+bug/1458825 (opened by me, over two years ago).
[17:58] <nacc> BlessJah: Faux: wrong channel?
[17:58] <nacc> probably want #ubuntu-server
[17:59] <Faux> I was replying to BlessJah.
[17:59] <Faux> Oh my, you saw that.
[17:59]  * Faux -> coffee.
[17:59] <nacc> Faux: :)
[18:07] <Unit193> juliank: But if someone adds an external repo with working contents, Debian gets them whereas Ubuntu won't.
[18:14] <BlessJah> nacc: you're right, thanks
[18:15] <juliank> Unit193: Yes, that's why I'd want to merge that stuff
[18:16] <BlessJah> Faux: I'll try to get answer on #ubuntu-server
[18:18] <Unit193> Thanks for that.
[18:43] <mitya57> mardy: Hi, do you know if cordova-ubuntu is still a living thing, or can be removed from archive? The latest commit in https://github.com/apache/cordova-ubuntu was >1 year ago.
[18:43] <mitya57> I am asking because it is the only reverse dependency of qtsystems-opensource-src, which I would like to remove.
[18:44] <mardy> mitya57: there are repos in github, let me check if they have seen some activity lately...
[18:47] <mardy> mitya57: yep, last commit is from 1 year ago there too, so my guess is that you can remove them; I didn't contribute much to them so I'm not 100% sure whether anyone is still using them, but given that they are unmaintained...
[18:49] <mitya57> mardy: thanks for confirmation! You were the only one of last committers whom I found on IRC ;)
[18:50] <mardy> mitya57: yep. BTW, any plans for QtPim? I recently updated it to the latest git, the patch delta is considerably smaller now: https://github.com/ubports/qtpim-opensource-src-packaging/pull/1/commits/c41708bcde351ebbdd7d3e4fedbc4d48c399d24b
[18:56] <mitya57> mardy: its rdeps are cordova-ubuntu-3.4 and messaging-framework. If the former is removed and the latter is compatible with the new version, then it makes sense to update it to Ubuntu.
[18:56] <mardy> mitya57: kde is not using it?
[18:56] <mardy> they are probably using some stuff of their own
[18:57] <mitya57> According to reverse-depends, they are not using it.
[18:57] <mardy> ok
[18:57] <mitya57> mardy: Let's wait for the current Qt transition to migrate, then I'll maybe take your packaging and upload it.
[19:48] <BlessJah> Faux: could you join #ubuntu-server to discuss you bug report?
[20:04] <nacc> cyphermox: doko: i'm about to be out on vacatio, and am a bit hesitant anyways to process a MIR I filed; LP: #1687454. Is it possible one of you can look so we can get that in this cycle? I think based upon c#2, it should be approved since we have the security ack?
[20:05] <nacc> dpb1: --^ if you could help keep track of that
[20:06] <cyphermox> nacc: yes I'll review it
[20:07] <nacc> cyphermox: thanks!
[20:11] <dpb1> nacc: will do.
[20:11] <nacc> dpb1: thanks
[20:12] <nacc> dpb1: anyone on the squad should be able to cherry-pick the necessary change from the history (as I uploaded a version with the depenency changed during the last cycle) and upload it (or request it be sponsored)
[20:13] <nacc> dpb1: necessary change = build mod_http2 for apache2, if MIR is approved
[20:15] <nacc> cpaelzer: fwiw, i would really rather folks not use skip-applied except when testing the importer (purely for speed of import). If you are pushing to the repo, no special options should be passed (unless there is a very good reason, e.g. patches-applied fails)
[21:13] <niedbalski> cpaelzer, bdmurray I think you can proceed with the SRU.
[21:14] <bdmurray> niedbalski: which one was that again?
[21:15] <bdmurray> niedbalski: And how much confidence do you have in "I think"
[21:15] <niedbalski> bdmurray, cpaelzer I am seeing a problem on the upgrade with virtlogd not being properly started after upgrade, but the problem isn't reproducible with exception of this particular environment.
[21:15] <niedbalski> so I can't hold this because of a single case.


[15:38] <drcce2001[m]> .
[15:43] <drcce2001[m]> I am just composing a post in a thread in an electric guitar forum devoted to DAWs and music tech. I want to encourage people to explore Ubuntu Studio and am looking for a YouTube video that would be a good intro for musicians who are not necessarily clued up about let FOSS. Anyone recommend one?
[17:30] <Eickmeyer> drcce2001[m]: That's a good question for #freenode_#opensourcemusicians:matrix.org. There's a guitarist in there that could probably give you a few pointers by the name of holstein.
[17:35] <oerheks> good friend Daniel?
[17:36] <oerheks> oh, the other one, Mike :-)


[02:29] <darkxst> jbicha, backported fixes for bugs 1064022, 1077546
[02:29] <darkxst> can you upload them before freeze, if no one else gets to them!
[02:31] <jbicha> darkxst: yes I'll do it tomorrow before freeze
[02:39] <darkxst> thanks
[02:45] <darkxst> meh, screenshield is still failing sometimes, with what looks like https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=689106
[02:45] <darkxst> but that was meant to be fixed
[09:14] <slinnky> Hey, are the 13.04 betas signed for UEFI Secure Boot? Are all the flavor betas signed (K-,X-,L-,ubuntu,-Gnome)?
[09:31] <darkxst> slinnky, I don't know about all the flavours, but ours are
[09:32] <slinnky> Ah okay
[09:32] <slinnky> Good to know darkxst, thanks
[12:19] <nazgul_> how do I upgrade from (regular) Ubuntu 12.10 to Ubuntu Gnome 13.04 (beta) ? "upgrade-manager -c -d" and later on install the ubuntu-gnome-desktop package?
[12:27] <tommie-lie> nazgul_: yep, should work
[12:28] <nazgul_> tommie-lie: thanks
[14:03] <petrus_> hi
[14:06] <petrus_> i have a poor performance on ubuntu gnome 13.04
[14:07] <petrus_> my laptop uses optimus graphics
[14:08] <petrus_> installed nvidia bumbleebee but did't reconized nvidia
[14:20] <atrus> petrus_5: are you getting bad performance from gnome-shell, or from some application/game?
[14:23] <petrus_5> from gnome-shell
[14:24] <petrus_5> its the graphics performance that is poor
[14:25] <petrus_5> maybe it has something to do with the support for intel hd4000 and nvidia gt540
[14:27] <petrus_5> iam in the kitchen right now, so ill be answering later
[15:12] <darkxst> petrus_5, poor performance of gnome-shell or something else?
[15:15] <darkxst> if you want gnome-shell to run on nvidia card you probably need to edit the session file to add an optirun in there
[15:15] <darkxst> or you can try the new 319 drivers with optimus support, but they don't exactly appear to work out of the box currently
[15:48] <darkxst> jbicha, oh btw, was chatting with seb and Gunnar last night, we may have some work cutout to make sure that 3.8 lands in S
[15:51] <jbicha> darkxst: I think the stuff in the GNOME3 PPA is safe enough to land in S next month
[15:52] <jbicha> there's a few bugs with like Software Center & Nautilus and GTK 3.8 in general but there's plenty of time for those to be fixed
[15:52] <jbicha> gnome-control-center and settings-daemon on the other hand is far from ready
[15:54] <tommie-lie> wouldn't it be possible to have a seperate repository with the 3.9 stuff that updates together with the gnome development and have that go into S like it was done before unity?
[15:54] <jbicha> tommie-lie: basically no
[15:55] <tommie-lie> aw :-(
[15:55] <jbicha> GNOME changes so much so fast it's difficult for the Ubuntu developers to keep up
[15:56] <darkxst> and its also difficult to get mis-mashing packages from different versions!
[15:56] <tommie-lie> but often there are packages available right after the Gnome release
[15:56] <jbicha> it might be fixed if Unity makes it own apps for everything but I seriously doubt that the Ubuntu devs have sufficient manpower to do that in the next year
[15:57] <tommie-lie> who does the real maintaining for the gnome related packages in Ubuntu? you/other ubuntu-gnome people?
[15:58] <jbicha> yes but responsibility for half of the packages is shared with the Ubuntu Desktop team
[15:58] <tommie-lie> ah, ok, so that's the problem...
[15:59] <darkxst> tommie-lie, no the problem is that ubuntu heavily patch core parts of gnome
[15:59] <jbicha> for instance, external panels in gnome-control-center are a core part of Ubuntu's design but GNOME broke them in the 3.8 cycle
[16:00] <tommie-lie> darkxst: yes, that's what I meant, Ubuntu Desktop sees things differently than Gnome and that's part of the problem
[16:00] <jbicha> Canonical's desktop team is undermanned because much of the team is working on the Ubuntu phone platform too
[16:00] <darkxst> well yes, but the real problem comes from sharing the same stack
[16:01] <jbicha> and now that Ubuntu is a mature product, Ubuntu doesn't want the risk of regressions (and additional work) just to have a few more features
[16:02] <tommie-lie> darkxst: yep, having "Unity applications" instead of using half of the Gnome stuff and modifying them to their needs would help, I think
[16:02] <tommie-lie> but sure resources are limited
[16:34] <camelinahat> jbicha, So does that mean that eventually, Unity Next will actually make it easier for keeping up with Gnome releases?
[16:35] <jbicha> possibly, it depends on whether Unity for traditional computers will use the same apps as the phone or not
[16:38] <darkxst> I don't see how it will help
[16:39] <darkxst> not in the near future atleast
[16:39] <petrus_5> i have ubuntu 13.04 gnome 3.8.019 installed, ive got slow performance on gnome-shell
[16:43] <camelinahat> I thought that was the point, that Unity on the desktop goes QT as well as that on the phones etc. But no that would be at least a year away
[16:44] <darkxst> petrus_5, gnome-shell should run fine on intel 4000
[16:45] <darkxst> but I have to go now
[16:47] <petrus_5> no, slow perfomance when switching applications
[17:02] <jbicha> camelinahat: well that's one way they could do, the other is that if you use Ubuntu on a desktop you get access to more powerful (gnome) apps
[17:11] <spazmando> hello
[18:59] <camelinahat> :( Since updating this morning I notice pulseaudio using up every spare bit of cpu usage after startup.


[05:07] <crimsun> holy, 8 am tomorrow?
[05:07] <jsgotangco> meeting?
[05:07] <jsgotangco> heh
[05:07] <crimsun> yeah
[05:07] <jsgotangco> its always that time
[05:07] <ajmitch_> fun
[05:08] <jsgotangco> its not so bad for me that's 8pm
[05:08] <crimsun> jsgotangco: I've just joined this channel, so I'm not familiar with the routine
[05:08] <jsgotangco> oh the meetings are always every wednesday around 12-14UTC
[05:08] <ajmitch_> it'd be 1AM for me
[05:08] <ajmitch_> so don't feel bad about 8am
[05:09] <crimsun> oh I don't, ajmitch_ :)
[05:09] <crimsun> I'm just trying to work out my sleep schedule so I can make these meetings
[05:09] <ajmitch_> hah
[05:10] <jsgotangco> the TBs are worse for me its usually around 4am
[08:06] <jinty> morning all
[08:07] <magnon> morning
[08:30] <JaneW> morning
[08:31] <jsgotangco> afternoon
[08:31] <jsgotangco> hehe
[08:34] <ajmitch_> morning
[09:33] <JaneW> highvoltage: what were you asking about Fear Factor?
[09:38] <highvoltage> JaneW: i heard from someone who heard from someone else who heard from someone else that you might be going on Fear Factor.
[09:39] <jsgotangco> wow
[09:39] <highvoltage> strange that i'm on this channel. all our international bandwidth is supposedly down :/
[09:39] <highvoltage> or eating horseguts
[09:39] <jsgotangco> pig brains
[09:40] <highvoltage> or lying in a pool of worms, with lasers attached to their heads
[09:43] <JaneW> YUM
[09:43] <JaneW> no I am not doing it
[09:43] <JaneW> I entered
[09:43] <JaneW> and I was selected
[09:43] <JaneW> BUT
[09:43] <JaneW> the filming is the exact time that I'll be away in Canada
[09:44] <JaneW> so I had to sadly step-down
[09:44] <JaneW> SHEW!
[09:44] <JaneW> would have been fun though
[09:44] <JaneW> thing is I either would have been out in the first round (if it was one of those killer strength tasks) and been pathetic
[09:45] <JaneW> or if it was a balance/height, actual fear thing I could have done well, but you never know what you are going to get...
[09:48] <jsgotangco> i'd still prefer seeing you do the yummy gourmet challenge
[09:48] <JaneW> heh
[09:48] <JaneW> my concern with that is not so much what they have to eat but the VOLUME of it
[09:48] <JaneW> I couldn't eat a delicious meal of that size!
[09:49] <JaneW> I would rather do a lie in something yucky task than have to eat it though...
[09:50] <jsgotangco> some of the things they make contestants eat are just normal food over here
[09:50] <JaneW> nod
[09:50] <jsgotangco> lol
[09:51] <JaneW> I count down the last minute and yell 'chew and swallow!'
[09:51] <JaneW> if they get it diwn in time they get a treat ;)
[09:51] <JaneW> in fact we get lots of stuff done based on reality TV
[09:51] <JaneW> the Bed Time routine is the Amazing Race
[09:52] <jsgotangco> ahh where does Tempation Island fit in?
[09:54] <JaneW> lol
[09:54] <JaneW> we haven;t watched that!
[09:54] <JaneW> we do Survivor, Amazing Race, Fear Factor and the Apprentice
[09:55] <jsgotangco> well of course the kids aren't going be involved in temptation island for sure
[10:10] <ajmitch_> JaneW: a real shame we won't get to see you on fear factor then :)
[10:11] <JaneW> ajmitch_: indeed :)
[10:11] <JaneW> jsgotangco: I hope not!
[10:19] <JaneW> is ogra up yet?
[10:35] <jsgotangco> it would be nice if the next conference would be somewhere in asia
[10:36] <JaneW> jsgotangco: work on sabdfl for that
[10:36] <jsgotangco> china perhaps
[10:37] <jsgotangco> japan would be too expensive
[10:37] <JaneW> THAILAND!!!!!!
[10:38] <jsgotangco> no not in phuket =) people won't work
[10:38] <ajmitch_> how about a bit further south, somewhere more exotic
[10:38] <ajmitch_> like New Zealand
[10:38] <jsgotangco> we've been in australia already
[10:39] <ajmitch_> :P
[10:39] <jsgotangco> ajmitch_, or probably a few hundred kilometers near the antartic in the south island?
[10:40] <ajmitch_> sounds good
[10:40] <jsgotangco> it would be like Ubuntu in permafrost
[10:40] <ajmitch_> at only 45 degrees south
[10:41] <jsgotangco> we might actually get real penguins as participants
[10:41] <ajmitch_> we have penguins near here :)
[10:41] <jsgotangco> wow
[10:41] <ajmitch_> I'm sure some people will go to look at them for LCA
[10:42] <ogra> JaneW, yes, sorry, was reading my new bugs frist
[10:42] <ajmitch_> ogra!
[10:42] <ogra> JaneW, nice news from mark :)
[10:42] <ajmitch_> news?
[10:42] <jsgotangco> ajmitch_, or some place really hot like in the middle east
[10:42] <ajmitch_> mm
[10:42] <ajmitch_> far too hot for me
[10:44] <jsgotangco> ajmitch_, by chance did you sign my key? i don't think i've seen your email at all...
[10:44] <ajmitch_> I probably did
[10:45] <ajmitch_> whether I remembered to send it is another matter
[10:45] <jsgotangco> ahh
[10:45] <jsgotangco> i still receive emails from lamont every now and then
[10:45] <ajmitch_> yeah
[10:52] <JaneW> ogra: yes
[10:53] <JaneW> ogra: now we need to not stuff it up! ;)
[10:53] <jsgotangco> stuff?
[10:55] <ogra> JaneW, yup
[10:56] <ogra> lets send a mail to the ML
[10:57] <JaneW> ogra: yes, and we'll discuss later at meeting
[10:57] <JaneW> ogra: mhz already offered to handle artwork
[10:57] <jsgotangco> errr???
[10:57] <JaneW> I asked silbs to show my ubuntu breezy artwork
[10:57] <JaneW> s/my/me the
[10:57] <JaneW> she sasy it will be on the wiki in a day or so
[10:58] <ogra> great
[10:58] <jsgotangco> errr???
[10:58] <ogra> i dont thin we're in a hurry... as i said before... pressing can go on past release
[10:59] <JaneW> ogra: I'll start loook for printing and oressing options, but yes lets wait till we are READY rather than rushing
[10:59] <JaneW> nod
[10:59] <JaneW> jsgotangco: ?
[10:59] <jsgotangco> ?
[10:59] <JaneW> ogra: do you want to look at options in germany?
[10:59] <JaneW> ?
[11:00] <ogra> JaneW, hmm...
[11:00] <ogra> we'll get pressed CDs if we can prove they are needed
[11:00] <jsgotangco> oh that's rather hard people love free stuff
[11:00] <ogra> 500 max to each country
[11:01] <ogra> and it needs to be documented in detail where they went
[11:01] <jsgotangco> including the vatican???
[11:01] <ogra> if the vatican asks :p
[11:01] <ajmitch_> jsgotangco: sure, I know some people in the Vatican who might be interested :)
[11:01] <ogra> ajmitch_, serious ?
[11:01] <jsgotangco> ajmitch_, catholic priests/nuns as hackers can be scary
[11:02] <ajmitch_> ogra: probably not about edubuntu.. but I do have contacts with web stuff :)
[11:02] <ajmitch_> jsgotangco: oh I know
[11:02] <ogra> hey we have gnomesword in universe... its perfect for them to teach the bible
[11:03] <ajmitch_> :)
[11:04] <ajmitch_> jsgotangco: like I've got a copy of the catechism marked up in XML, other zope/plone stuff that I'm working on with friends in .au :)
[11:04] <ajmitch_> but that's probably getting OT even for here ;)
[11:05] <jsgotangco> sure next time we'll have our cover CD models as a christian priest, a buddhist monk and a muslim imam doing the ubuntu pose
[11:05] <ajmitch_> haha
[11:05] <jsgotangco> at least they won't refer as as LinuXXX again
[11:06] <JaneW> guys this is not religubuntu! ;)
[11:07] <JaneW> jsgotangco: but I like your photo op idea ;)
[11:07] <jsgotangco> JaneW, face it you like the idea
[11:08] <jsgotangco> ok test new updates
[11:08] <jsgotangco> brb
[11:38] <JaneW> does the calculator on edubuntu have graphing functionality?
[11:42] <ogra> JaneW, nope, we have kig for that
[11:42] <JaneW> ok so kig does graphing of mathematical functions?
[11:43] <JaneW> I have a Dr asking
[11:43] <ogra> (or probably drgeo fro next release)
[11:43] <ogra> drgeo is the gnome equivalent to kig
[11:44] <ogra> oh, and kmplot as a smaller graphing app...
[11:44] <ogra> i gess the latter is what he's looking for
[11:44] <JaneW> ogra: also did you read the review at http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/2619/ ?
[11:44] <ogra> oh, no, didnt know it
[11:44] <JaneW> I think the guys has some valid points
[11:44] <JaneW> re menus etc
[11:45] <JaneW> (which we do know about and have discussed)
[11:45] <ogra> phew
[11:45] <ogra> they didnt read the install instructions
[11:45] <ogra> and they used a *very* old snaphot (no wallpaper)
[11:46] <JaneW> nod
[11:46] <JaneW> should we contact him and ask him to try again?
[11:46] <ogra> not before the dhcp.conf generation bug is fixed...
[11:50] <JaneW> ok
[11:59] <JaneW> **Reminder** 2 hours to Edubuntu Update Meeting in #ubuntu-meeting
[12:08] <jsgotangco> i have nothing to update
[12:08] <ogra> i have a long list :/
[12:12] <JaneW> ajmitch_: night
[12:12] <JaneW> ogra: see e-mail please - re WSIS
[12:16] <jsgotangco> im still waiting for people to actually collaborate on the wiki pages :/
[12:17] <jsgotangco> (and the release notes for ubuntu itself)
[01:14] <JaneW> **Reminder** 45 mins to Edubuntu Update Meeting in #ubuntu-meeting
[01:54] <JaneW> **Reminder** 5 mins to Edubuntu Update Meeting in #ubuntu-meeting
[02:01] <JaneW> **Reminder** Edubuntu Update Meeting in #ubuntu-meeting NOW
[05:25] <highvoltage> ogra: how would I know that my rt request is being processed? is there a place i can check?
[05:25] <ogra> highvoltage, i dont think thats public....
[05:26] <ogra> and i dont think rt is right for usage by non canonical people...
[05:26] <ogra> but you'll certainly get answer if it was right or not
[05:26] <highvoltage> ok. we use rt at tsf too, so i know what you mean :)
[05:28] <highvoltage> ok, have a good evening. relax a bit too, ogra. i think you also need to take a nice long vacation after release :)
[05:28] <ogra> no time to relax now :)
[05:28] <ogra> but later i will
[05:28] <highvoltage> cool. cheers!
[06:56] <jelkner> ogra: hi Oliver, are you here?
[06:57] <ogra> jelkner, yup
[07:02] <jelkner> i wanted to ask you about two things:
[07:02] <jelkner> 1. eclipse
[07:02] <jelkner> 2. the "sreen blanking bug"
[07:03] <jelkner> today's update of eclipse broke it
[07:03] <ogra> i have never used it
[07:03] <jelkner> it can no longer find the blackdown java sdk installed on the system
[07:04] <jelkner> i depend on it for my apcsc classes
[07:04] <jelkner> so i want to file a bug report
[07:04] <jelkner> that would go in malone, yes?
[07:05] <ogra> j2sdk1.4 and j2re1.4 are both installed from multiverse... eclipse is in universe, so yesd
[07:05] <ogra> -d
[07:06] <ogra> but what do you mean with "it can no longer find the blackdown java sdk installed on the system" ?
[07:06] <ogra> theer was no cange since weeks...
[07:06] <ogra> eek
[07:06] <ogra> there was no change
[07:07] <ogra> so if you didnt uninstall it, it shouldnt vanish
[07:09] <jelkner> hmm...
[07:09] <jelkner> when i did the "apt-get dist-upgrade" today
[07:10] <jelkner> there was a dependency issue with one of the eclipse packages
[07:10] <jelkner> so in uninstalled it
[07:10] <jelkner> finished the dist-upgrade
[07:10] <jelkner> and reinstalled
[07:10] <jelkner> (only eclipse, not the j2sdk1.4)
[07:11] <ogra> never do dist-upgrade in unstable releases
[07:11] <jelkner> now when we start eclipse, it won't start, saying "can not find a java runtime environment"
[07:11] <ogra> dist-upgrade means you allow the system to uninstall packages, even if they are essential to fulfill the dependencys
[07:11] <jelkner> ok, only "upgrade" then?
[07:11] <ogra> only use upgrade
[07:11] <ogra> yes
[07:11] <jelkner> ok
[07:12] <ogra> it does only upgrade...
[07:12] <jelkner> i need to go help a student, brb...
[07:12] <ogra> but dist-upgrade asks you if its ok with you to uninstall stuff...
[07:22] <jelkner> bell rang, student left, i'm back..
[07:22] <jelkner> is malone the place to report the bug?
[07:22] <ogra> for eclipse ? yes
[07:22] <jelkner> ok, great
[07:23] <jelkner> i'll do that
[07:23] <ogra> but really read if apt asks you questions ;)
[07:23] <crimsun> (eclipse should just work with breezy's gcj, correct?)
[07:23] <ogra> it wouldnt just uninstall stuff wihout confirmation normally
[07:23] <ogra> yup
[07:24] <jelkner> the java stuff is very confusing
[07:24] <jelkner> gcj isn't quite ready for the ap course
[07:24] <ogra> crimsun, but gjc neither brings you the ff plugin, nor does it match the sun tutorials i think
[07:25] <ogra> its ok to run specifically adjusted stuff though
[07:25] <jelkner> when you look up "java" on synaptic you get many confusing choices
[07:26] <jelkner> one of the things i'm hoping to ask for "Dapper" is if we could create an "APCSC" meta package that would install everything needed to teach java on Edubuntu
[07:26] <ogra> rather look for blackdown
[07:26] <ogra> sure we can :)
[07:26] <jelkner> cool!
[07:27] <jelkner> anyway, the other bug, and then i'm off to my other school...
[07:27] <jelkner> has anyone mentioned the "screen blanking" bug?
[07:27] <ogra> screen blanking ?
[07:27] <jelkner> Edubuntu clients routinely have their screens go blank for a second or 3
[07:28] <jelkner> it happens randomly
[07:28] <ogra> erm
[07:28] <jelkner> and the screen always comes back
[07:28] <ogra> that shouldnt happen
[07:28] <jelkner> it does
[07:28] <jelkner> my students are used to it
[07:28] <ogra> are you sure you dont have gnome-screensaver installed or something like that ?
[07:28] <jelkner> it is not frequent enough to be a huge problem
[07:28] <jelkner> only an anoyance
[07:29] <jelkner> no, it isn't anything like that
[07:29] <ogra> we temporarily switched to gnome-screensaver, please check if its still there
[07:29] <jelkner> when was that?
[07:29] <ogra> if not please file a bugzilla bug with component UNKNOWN
[07:29] <jelkner> i've been dealing with this all along
[07:29] <ogra> a bit more than two weeks ago
[07:29] <jelkner> hmm...
[07:29] <ogra> or even 2 ...
[07:30] <ogra> err 3
[07:30] <jelkner> i'll file the bugzilla report later today then...
[07:30] <ogra> if thats the case, just uninstall gnome-screensaver
[07:30] <ogra> please check for it first
[07:31] <crimsun> in a Terminal, dpkg -l gnome-screensaver|grep ^ii
[07:31] <jelkner> i just removed it
[07:31] <ogra> ah, it was there ?
[07:31] <ogra> great...
[07:31] <jelkner> yup
[07:31] <jelkner> i'll watch over the next few days and see what happens
[07:31] <jelkner> well, i gotta run...
[07:31] <ogra> just make sure xscreensaver is installed now, if you want to use a screensaver :)
[07:32] <ogra> but it should be anyway, its a dependency of edubuntu-desktop ;)
[07:32] <ogra> have fun :)
[07:32] <jelkner> it is there
[07:32] <jelkner> thanks!
[09:15] <mhz> hey
[09:15] <mhz> ogra: ping
[09:15] <ogra> pong
[09:15] <mhz> coll
[09:15] <mhz> ogra: I was finishing edubutu install and we suffered a powercut
[09:16] <ogra> ouch
[09:16] <mhz> what's the command to restart dpkg reconfiguration of all pending software???
[09:16] <mhz> I got up to 68%
[09:17] <mhz> after having the reboot part, of course.
[09:17] <ogra> base-config
[09:17] <mhz> si dpkg was actualli configuring packages
[09:17] <ogra> and dpkg --configure -a
[09:17] <mhz> diff?
[09:17] <ogra> base-config is what starts after reboot
[09:17] <mhz> and the other?
[09:18] <ogra> it calls dpkg --configure -a at some point
[09:18] <mhz> ah, so I should only start with base-config ?
[09:18] <ogra> but dpkg --configure -a only configures packages, if not all were installed at this time, you might have to reinstall
[09:18] <mhz> thx
[09:19] <ogra> good luck
[09:20] <mhz> base config started from clock setting.
[09:20] <mhz> is that allright?
[09:22] <mhz> weel, base-config asked me to set apt, so I decided to manually run dpkg --configure -a
[09:22] <mhz> anyways, thx.
[09:22] <mhz> and I f you happen to have any more suggestions I'll be available via mail to mhz AT tecnocimiento DOT cl
[09:22] <mhz> c ya!


[23:55] <technopeasant> I have a question I hope someone can answer. I am a total novice but, I have decided to use LINUX I have tried to load the last three versions UBUNTU and MINT every one ended up at the end of the instillation with an unsuccessful installation due to GRUB not loading. Then of course the install asks if I want to abort install go on without a loader or try again. Tried all three with obvious results Can anyone suggest a solution to
[23:56] <DarthExpeditor> So my dropbox install barfed and messed up my apt-get
[23:56] <wilee-nilee> technopeasant, You running W8 per-chance?
[23:57] <technopeasant> No Iam running an older AMD 64 with a Nvidia 4 chipset.
[23:57] <wilee-nilee> DarthExpeditor, You have to be careful with the software center, it is easy to close it without making sure stuff is finished, may have had a problem though.
[23:58] <DarthExpeditor> kk
[23:58] <technopeasant> I think the Nvidia is the problem because my wife has another brand board with an Nvida and it does the same thing.
[23:58] <wilee-nilee> technopeasant, You using a install to disc or manual install, and how old is the HD?


[02:18] <Eickmeyer[m]> I'm having trouble understanding why ubuntustudio-meta isn't migrating. Literally metapackages, and there's nothing in update-excuses that tells anything.
[02:22] <vorlon> Eickmeyer[m]: when update_excuses doesn't explain, you have to look to https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_output.txt ; which shows that the new version becomes uninstallable on riscv64
[06:41] <cpaelzer> ok, second round of cleanups for DPDK now that OVS/netplan is resolved
[06:41] <cpaelzer> asking for ubuntu-archive again for some more binary main->universe movements
[06:41] <cpaelzer> now that the other dust has settled it seems what is left is this list
[06:41] <cpaelzer> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/KmbrMBzVHw/
[06:42] <cpaelzer> which is librte-meta-* out of the report at https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches-proposed.html
[07:00] <RAOF> cpaelzer: Done.
[07:00] <cpaelzer> thank you
[09:45] <Laney> vorlon or sil2100: what do you know about the cowboy on ancientminister:/srv/cdimage.ubuntu.com/production/trigger-mirrors ?
[09:56] <sil2100> Laney: uh, I know nothing about it, not sure if I ever touched that part
[09:57] <sil2100> So we probably need to wait for vorlon to be up
[09:57] <Laney> np
[09:57] <Laney> and hey and happy new year!
[10:02] <sil2100> Happy new year to you too! :)
[10:02] <sil2100> Fingers crossed for 2021
[10:02] <LocutusOfBorg> :)
[10:04] <sil2100> hm, queuebot seems awfully quiet
[10:25] <RikMills> sil2100: could you release the focal SRU for LP: #1901609
[10:25] <RikMills> the ppc64el build was fixed on a simple retry
[10:46] <sil2100> RikMills: sure! Switched it back to Fix Committed and now re-looking
[10:47] <sil2100> Done o/
[10:50] <RikMills> sil2100: ty :)
[11:11] <sil2100> yw!
 doko: any idea what regressed that dh_strip now fails on mingw binaries in both libassuan/amd64 and npth/amd64 ?
[12:05] <LocutusOfBorg> also libmaus2 on ppc64el?
[12:10] <doko> these are archives with .o files not having any code in the object files. I'll need to look at these, if the check is too strict, or if it's better to fix the builds
[12:20] <doko> but I don't want to change that now, as long as the lto archive rebuild is running on arm64. that should be the complete list: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/Qr6Njf5K2m/
[14:29] <coreycb> sil2100: hello, if you happen to have any sru cycles we have a new openvswitch in bionic unapproved that we'd really like to get into proposed and start testing.
[14:53] <sil2100> coreycb: o/
[14:55] <coreycb> sil2100: o/
[15:08] <tseliot> tjaalton, hey, can you reject nvidia-prime from groovy, focal, and bionic, please?
[15:09] <tjaalton> tseliot: sure
[15:11] <tseliot> tjaalton, thanks
[15:12] <tjaalton> and done
[15:32] <xnox> sil2100: would you be able to do a trivial sru accept on https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/groovy/+queue?queue_state=1&queue_text=opensbi and https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/focal/+queue?queue_state=1&queue_text=opensbi ?
[15:32] <xnox> sil2100: that would make it easier to prepare the u-boot srus.
[15:35] <sil2100> Looking
[15:37] <sil2100> Ok, let me handle those quickly and then get back to OVS
[15:59] <LocutusOfBorg> can any ubuntu-archive please NBS-proposed cleanup digikam?
[15:59] <LocutusOfBorg> NBS on ppc64el riscv64 s390x anymore
[16:40] <vorlon> Laney, sil2100: sorry, I don't know teh source of that trigger-mirrors cowboy either, I don't believe it was me
[16:41] <Laney> should we just make the repo look like that?
[16:46] <vorlon> I suppose so
[16:58] <tseliot> vorlon, hey, can you accept nvidia-graphics-drivers-460 in hirsute NEW, please?
[17:06] <tseliot> vorlon, I didn't mention in the changelog that it replaces the 455 series. If it's a problem, I'll reupload
[19:38] <bdmurray> sil2100: The tzdata verification for bug 1909698 is all verified.
[20:52] <LocutusOfBorg> vorlon, python-fabio i386 hint please?
[20:56] <vorlon> LocutusOfBorg: done
[21:35] <bdmurray> vorlon: Do you want to release the tzdata SRUs? The python3.9 tzdata triggered autopkgtest has passed now too.
[22:00] <LocutusOfBorg> thanks
[23:13] <vorlon> tseliot: accepted
[23:13] <vorlon> bdmurray: ok, looking
[23:15] <bdmurray> Thanks
[23:17] <bdmurray> vorlon: I'm sure you don't need reminding but don't forget -security.
[23:33] <tseliot> vorlon, thanks
[23:40] <sergiodj> hm, is it possible for some AA to retrigger some armhf rebuilds?  I missed the fact that net-snmp's armhf build hadn't been published yet, and uploaded a bunch of no-change uploads related to its transition
[23:41] <sergiodj> almost everything is fine, but the armhf builds used the previous libsnmp35 library :-/
[23:42] <sergiodj> I don't want to do another round of no-change uploads just because of this, so I thought I'd ask here if it's possible to retrigger the armhf builds of the affected packages


[08:50] <bjp> so i decided to try to install 10.10 on my old laptop, and in the start of the install it gives me:
[08:51] <bjp> "this partitioner doesn't have information about the default type of the partition tables on your architecture. please send an e-maile message to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>with information"
[08:51] <bjp> but it doesn't say what information....
[08:51] <bjp> or anything else helpful
[09:04] <ara> bjp, what flavour? the live cd or the alternate?
[09:05] <bjp> actually i copied the netboot/ stuff from the ubuntu servers and booted via pxe
[09:05] <bjp> standard ubuntu
[09:31] <bjp> i guess i could try installing from the iso...
[09:31] <bjp> maybe tomorrow
[11:00] <davmor2> morning all
[11:00] <davmor2> ara: you running une maverick on anything?
[11:01] <ara> davmor2, yes, but I haven't upgraded today
[11:01] <ara> davmor2, is it broken?
[11:01] <davmor2> ara: it is here yes white screen with a white arrow I was just about to chase up on it
[11:02] <ara> davmor2, I will upgrade and will let you know
[11:08] <davmor2> ara: known issue according to gord on -devel
[11:09] <bjp> i booted into livecd and the mouse cursor is invisible
[11:10] <ara> davmor2, do you have a bug report?
[11:11] <davmor2> ara: just asked gord
[11:22] <ara> davmor2, can you file a bug report, please? so we can have a place where to track the status
[11:22] <davmor2> will do
[12:52] <davmor2> ara: temp bug till I can upload extra details is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/638878
[12:52] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 638878 in ubuntu "Unity displays only a white desktop on 20100915's updates (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New]
[12:54] <ara> davmor2, thanks
[13:41] <davmor2> ara: had to file a new bug in the end and apport only gave the dependencies and general info then :(  Meh! new bug is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/638921
[13:41] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 638921 in unity (Ubuntu) "Unity displays only a white desktop on 20100915's updates (affects: 1) (dups: 1) (heat: 12)" [Undecided,New]
[13:41] <davmor2> I've dupe the old one to it
[13:41] <ara> davmor2, OK, thanks
[19:58] <ara> QA meeting at #ubuntu-quality in 2 min!


[11:17] <fritz09> hello!
[11:17] <fritz09> peace and love!
[11:23] <rsc-> hola.
[11:36] <fritz09> hola rsc
[11:36] <kwwii> hrm, where is thorwil
[11:43] <rsc-> kwwii, whens the deadline for community themes for Intrepid?
[11:43] <rsc-> i.e., till when can I polish dust :p
[11:52] <kwwii> rsc-: if you have fixes for specific issues/bugs I can still include them today
[11:52] <kwwii> after today things will get harder to change
[11:52] <kwwii> but bug fixing is always possible up the end
[11:52] <rsc-> okay
[11:52] <rsc-> "bzr branch lp:dusttheme" should be good.
[11:52] <rsc-> :)
[12:03] <kwwii> cool, I will look into a bit later
[12:03] <rsc-> great!
[13:09] <thorwil> kwwii: thanks for the nice blog post. views are up to 406, where 84 was the top before
[13:10] <thorwil> now if only this would translate into input/feedback :)
[13:11] <thorwil> also posted on the ubuntu artwork forum. no reply after 22 hours, hard at work proving its uselessness :>
[13:11] <kwwii> hehe, cool
[13:11] <kwwii> people probably don't know how to start the conversation, I think
[13:12] <thorwil> perhaps
[13:13] <thorwil> i will try it with the briefing/goals mail on that forum. and hit the community cafe for input on what ubuntu is all about, as experiment
[13:17] <thorwil> oh, forums have database error :(
[13:23] <kwwii> lol
[13:23] <kwwii> popey: hey man! did the human-theme update fix your problem?
[13:26] <kwwii> sooo many people complained about the new wallpaper that the server started smoking
[13:28] <thorwil> heh
[13:30] <thorwil> _MMA_: good morning. Ken's blog-post brought us 406 views. my forum post about kyudo has no single reply after 22 hours. and i'm going for coffee now that you arrive ^^
[13:30] <_MMA_> :)
[13:31] <_MMA_> I saw the blog post. I have some things to do this morning but Im generally round.
[13:39] <popey> hi kwwii just rebooting to test
[13:47] <rsc-> thorwil, what forum?
[13:47] <popey> kwwii: still seems broken here
[13:47] <popey> kwwii: i may be missing something - I am using the NewHuman theme
[13:48] <rsc-> also, how do you check for pageviews on the ubuntu wiki? :p
[13:50] <_MMA_> rsc-: It's generally accepted in #ubuntu channels that any mention of a forum is meant to refer to the Ubuntu Forums. Unless otherwise noted.
[13:51] <rsc-> is there some sort of ubuntu art sub-forum in the ubuntu forums?
[13:52] <kwwii> popey: argh...suckage
[13:52] <kwwii> I know exactly how to fix it and I did so already...this makes no sense
[13:52] <_MMA_> rsc-: Yes.
[13:53] <rsc-> oh wow.
[13:53] <rsc-> i certainly haven't been too involved in the ocmmunity to not know about this
[13:54] <kwwii> popey: is the version you have installed the same as this: http://sinecera.de/human-theme_0.26_all.deb ?
[13:55] <kwwii> hrm, and make sure that you do not have a NewHuman theme in your .themes dir, of course
[13:56] <kwwii> and make sure that the window decoration settings are really on NewHuman and not something else like Human-Murrine or such
[13:56] <popey> ok.. checking
[13:57] <kwwii> I moved the unfocused text down one pixel, I swear I did :-)
[13:58] <rsc-> thorwil, I replied on the forum thread to help bump it up, heh :)
[13:58] <popey> hmm, i just did a wget on that deb and diffed with my local cached copy in /var/cache/apt/archives and they are _not_ the same
[13:59]  * popey does an apt-get install human-theme --reinstall
[13:59] <thorwil> rsc-: page views are on one of the sub pages, if you follow the Info link on wiki pages
[14:00] <popey> kwwii: even if i remove the deb and reinstall - it redownloads and the deb in the repo is _not_ the same as that one on sinecera
[14:01] <popey> yours is 44020 bytes, the one from the repo is 43514 bytes dated 24/9/08
[14:01] <popey> (from gb.archive.ubuntu.com which as I understand it _is_ archive.ubuntu.com
[14:01] <thorwil> rsc-: heh, thanks for the bump :)
[14:06] <kwwii> popey: hrm, ok...that means that pitti uploaded the wrong one
[14:06] <kwwii> at least now I understand how it happened
[14:07] <popey> woot
[14:08] <popey> have updated the bug report btw
[14:10] <kwwii> popey: are you using my ppa?
[14:10] <popey> no
[14:10] <popey> should I?
[14:11] <kwwii> well, it always has the newest stuff first
[14:11]  * popey likes the newest crack
[14:11] <kwwii> and I was wondering if the package up there is also borked
[14:11] <popey> will try
[14:11]  * thorwil has to cut some ivy
[14:11]  * _MMA_ hands Alan a pipe.
[14:13] <popey> \o/ pie
[14:13] <_MMA_> Do you really need more? :P
[14:13]  * _MMA_ runs.
[14:14] <popey> _MMA_: http://meow.popey.com/
[14:15]  * _MMA_ cautiously clicks.
[14:15] <kwwii> lol, just knowing that you had that ready scares me
[14:15] <_MMA_> :)
[14:15] <popey> :)
[14:22] <_MMA_> thorwil: My availability after the 4th of Oct, and for the 5 weeks or so after will limited. I got a CAD job and will be going to Mexico for a bit. I should be able to attend to anything that needs my direct attention but extra stuff, like chatting here, won't happen much. When I return, things should be back to somewhat normal. Though, I'll be chatting from work and that can be tricky. :)
[14:22] <popey> kwwii: oddly.. i add your repo, and when i try to reinstall human-theme it gets the one from ubuntu.com not your ppa..
[14:23] <kwwii> because the official source comes before the other probably
[14:23] <kwwii> they are at the same version number
[14:23] <kwwii> or launchpad knows it somehow
[14:24] <_MMA_> kwwii: Isnt your package supposed to have "PPA" in it or something? And those supersede repo packages?
[14:25]  * _MMA_ is kinda pullin' that one out of his ass but it sounds right.
[14:25] <kwwii> no idea
[14:26] <popey> \o/ we three clueless dudes
[14:26]  * _MMA_ does a dance.
[14:26]  * popey takes pictures
[14:39] <popey> ooo, like the new gdm theme
[15:14] <kwwii> I bet baby jesus didn't like meetings either
[15:21] <Cimi> kwwii, if you have some requests/mockups before I will be unreachable, those are the right days
[15:21] <Cimi> *these
[15:31] <kwwii> popey: lol, there was an error in it...it had one ) too many in the metacity file, there should be a 0.27 within minutes on my PPA and coming soon in Intrepid
[15:32] <kwwii> Cimi: if I get time to work on anything you will be the first to know
[15:32] <kwwii> I am typing my fingers off trying to get things ready for the beta
[15:48] <_MMA_> Uhh... WTF? Has the highlight color been removed from tabs in Murrine or something?
[15:49] <_MMA_> My little blue stripe has been taken off tabs on the Studio theme. :(
[15:54] <popey> kwwii: yup fixed in 027 from your ppa, ta!
[16:02] <_MMA_> Cimi kwwii: See my last post. ^^^
[16:13] <Nece228> does human-murrine theme is faster?
[16:15] <kwwii> popey: excellent, thanks for the help
[16:15] <popey> np
[16:17] <aantn> thorwil: ping
[16:21] <thorwil> aantn: pong
[16:21] <aantn> thorwil: have you ever used Cool Iris?
[16:22] <thorwil> aantn: no, don't even know what it is
[16:23] <aantn> thorwil: it's a nifty little extension for firefox that displays bookmark thumbnails on a 3d wall
[16:23] <thorwil> _MMA_: think you will have the icon process finished by then? i could run with it in the 5 weeks and insist on the results when you come back ;)
[16:23] <aantn> thorwil: however, it gave me an idea related to our discussion about icons
[16:23] <aantn> thorwil: have you used iPhoto?
[16:23] <thorwil> aantn: no
[16:24] <aantn> thorwil: what the two have in common is zooming interfaces, either for pictures or websites
[16:25] <aantn> thorwil: I'm playing around with the idea of doing something similar with file browsing
[16:25] <thorwil> Nece228: would you please stop dropping in here and asking the same shit without any explanation again and again?
[16:25] <aantn> thorwil: you can compare it to the google maps interface
[16:26] <aantn> thorwil: if you zoom in on a folder (or city) you see individual files (or roads)
[16:27] <thorwil> aantn: if you want to do anything in the area of zooming interfaces, do a little research. there is huge pile of work about this in the hci field
[16:27] <_MMA_> thorwil: Yeah, I should have the templates finished and a call for submissions for a base set of 5 icons.
[16:27] <_MMA_> So it will be just waiting on submissions at that point.
[16:27] <_MMA_> s/5/6
[16:27] <aantn> thorwil: I didn't know that
[16:27] <DannyKing> hello
[16:28] <aantn> thorwil: I'll definitely look into it
[16:28] <thorwil> hi DannyKing
[16:28] <thorwil> aantn: "zooming interface" should be a good search term
[16:28] <Nece228> thorwil: isnt this a good explanations?
[16:29] <aantn> thorwil: yeah, I'll begin googling
[16:29] <Nece228> thorwil: i mean which has better performance
[16:30] <thorwil> Nece228: i think you already had a chat with Cimi about that. if he can't give you a satisfying answer, nobody here can
[16:30] <aantn> thorwil: also, can I display the mockup from your blog in a post; it'll link right back to you
[16:30] <Nece228> thorwil: i just wanna test results
[16:31] <thorwil> aantn: sure. most of my creations can be assumed to only require attribution
[16:32] <aantn> thorwil: ok
[16:32] <thorwil> Nece228: ok. you can be quite sure by now that nobody here has test results. also, when i asked if you notice a difference, you said no. if a user doesn't fell a difference, it doen't matter
[16:33] <Nece228> thorwil: why not? maybe at some things i can see results?
[16:34] <_MMA_> Nece228: thorwil knows what he's talking about.  I think I shot that down pretty quick though.
[16:37]  * _MMA_ hands Nece228 a tissue. Oh well.
[16:37] <Nece228> and ill say: oh man ubuntu is doing same way as windwos
[16:37] <DannyKing> I'm working on a wooden icon theme, just for fun. Anyone want to see the early prototype? http://flickr.com/photos/danny-king/2866286095/
[16:37] <thorwil> DannyKing: seems a bit stiff and grainy ;)
[16:38] <_MMA_> Nece228: *sigh* This really isn't the place to complain. We've heard it all before. If you can offer solutions, we really don't care to hear the opinion.
[16:38] <Nece228> so ubuntu 8.10 will not have brand new theme, but it will have tweaked theme?
[16:38] <Nece228> _MMA_ dont try to escape from true
[16:39] <_MMA_> Nece228: True for you. It's an opinion we don't care to hear for the 1000th time.
[16:40] <_MMA_> DannyKing: I've seen it on GNOME-Look. I agree with some of the comments there about some things being hard to see at smaller resolutions. I do think it's a fun idea though.
[16:40] <Nece228> _MMA_ oh yeah? first ubuntu hardy theme was deffered, but now they are still too lazy to create new theme, they even dont have new icons
[16:41] <DannyKing> _MMA_: are you sure it was gnome look? I've not submitted it there. It's been on inkscapeforum.com though. thanks :)
[16:41] <popey> _MMA_: is it like this all the time in here? :(
[16:41] <thorwil> Nece228: please go and read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/KyudoGuidelines/Mindset. don't annoy productive people who actually _do_ stuff
[16:41] <_MMA_> popey: Only with people who are new, young and can't speak English well.
[16:42] <_MMA_> DannyKing: Oh hell! That was it. :P Duh.
[16:42] <thorwil> oh, those who can, can be as annoying
[16:43] <Nece228> _MMA_ hmm are you sure that beta will have new theme and icons?
[16:43] <_MMA_> It will not. Only tweaks. A new wallpaper at the least.
[16:44] <Nece228> _MMA_ "There's a lack of skilled and trained artists and designers in the Free Software world"
[16:44] <Nece228> _MMA_ "i didnt know that, sorry
[16:45] <Nece228> _MMA_ but theres many ideas, why they dont use one of that?
[16:45] <_MMA_> DannyKing: Sorry. I interact with so many people I forgot you from Inkscape. :)
[16:45] <DannyKing> Don't worry, I'm pretty new to the chanel :)
[16:46] <DannyKing> channel *
[16:46] <_MMA_> I knew the name, just not where from. Though it was only a couple of days ago. :)
[16:49] <_MMA_> DannyKing: You might be interested in this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/BreatheIconSet
[16:49] <_MMA_> Start of a new effort.
[16:49] <DannyKing> Thanks, I'll take a look
[16:50] <DannyKing> That looks really interesting, thanks :)
[16:52] <Nece228> _MMA_ but i think that ubuntu will lose many users
[16:55] <Nece228> world is getting worse and worse
[17:03] <thorwil> DannyKing: your monitor and tablet images are rather impressive. ubuntu-art is in dire need of skill such as yours
[17:03] <thorwil> http://flickr.com/photos/danny-king/2215444392/in/photostream/
[17:03] <thorwil> http://flickr.com/photos/danny-king/2215422492/in/photostream/
[17:04] <DannyKing> Thanks, very kind words :) It's just a hobby really, but I'm very interested in contributing to ubuntu if I can find the time. (I'm starting university in 10 days so I'm unsure of my workload)
[17:05] <DannyKing> But hopefully I'll get a theme done soon and I'll release it with a free licence
[17:05] <_MMA_> DannyKing: Sure. Stick around. Please join our mailing list. Most official things are done there.
[17:05] <thorwil> DannyKing: in that case, i have to recommend to you to wait until things have settled in for you there ;)
[17:05] <DannyKing> Will do :)
[17:07] <_MMA_> DannyKing: The Breathe icon set should fit limited schedules well and icons can be bite-sized. And the set will take some time to complete. We're in no rush.
[17:08] <DannyKing> Great, sounds fun
[17:09] <_MMA_> Should be. I'll have an official "call for help" soon for these icons. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/BreatheIconSet/Icons I gotta wrap up a couple of technicals 1st.
[17:10] <DannyKing> I really like that CD icon
[17:10] <DannyKing> Fantastic colours
[17:10] <_MMA_> We'll focus on a group of them at a time, but that should not limit what anyone wants to tackle. Just gives a bit of focus.
[17:11] <_MMA_> DannyKing: Well, do a bit of reading. Those are from an existing set we're trying to mix.
[17:12] <_MMA_> Oxygen (KDE set) with Ubuntu's Human.
[17:12] <DannyKing> Great. I'm definitely interested in helping out. I'm sure I'll have the time in a month or so
[17:12] <_MMA_> cool
[17:12] <DannyKing> I've gotta go, nice chatting to you all
[17:12] <_MMA_> later
[17:12]  * DannyKing is afk
[17:13] <Nece228> i dont understand some things
[17:13] <thorwil> same here
[17:13] <Nece228> murrine has glass look, but you can do absolutely same with clearlooks engine
[17:14] <Nece228> *absolutely same look
[17:15] <_MMA_> Nece228: Asking a question is a better way to get an answer.
[17:15] <Nece228> so why theres murrine?
[17:15] <Nece228> if you can have absolutely same thing with other engines
[17:16] <_MMA_> Nece228: Cimi is the author of Murrine and maintainer of Clearlooks. If he has time, he can reply.
[17:17] <Nece228> but i understand why theres developing version murrine transparency
[17:18] <Nece228> because it will be transparent
[17:19] <Nece228> i think ubuntu 8.10 should have more graphic
[17:19] <Nece228> more colors, everythink should be filled
[17:21] <Nece228> but i should say that human murrine looks very nice, its a great theme but wrong theme
[17:21] <_MMA_> Nece228: We all eagerly await you contribution to the future look and feel of Ubuntu. Look to the topic for how to get involved.
[17:22] <Nece228> when everythink will be filled, then you can say WOW!
[17:22] <Nece228> :P
[17:22] <thorwil> Nece228: how old are you?
[17:22] <Nece228> is this very important?
[17:22] <thorwil> yes
[17:23] <Nece228> thorwil: why you need to care about this?
[17:23] <thorwil> Nece228: because you sound and argue like a 12 year old
[17:24] <Nece228> thorwil: maybe but im not 12 years old
[17:24] <_MMA_> Nece228: Because you opinions show a lack of experience often associated with age.
[17:24] <Nece228> yeah, i know that i suck and im acting like a kid
[17:24] <Nece228> but im not
[17:26] <thorwil> welcome rsc-
[17:26] <rsc-> hey thorwil.
[17:27] <Nece228> thorwil: is this a good answer?
[17:27] <rsc-> whats going on? :)
[17:27] <thorwil> Nece228: only if you try to behave better now
[17:27] <_MMA_> rsc-: Babysitting. :)
[17:27] <thorwil> rsc-: writing forum posts
[17:27] <rsc-> babysitting what?
[17:28] <Nece228> thorwil: yeah sure, sometimes i just suck so you should ignore these posts
[17:28] <thorwil> rsc-: did you see that _MMA_ will be busy otherwise soon, for 5 weeks?
[17:28] <_MMA_> Nece228: Or I can kick/ban you instead? :)
[17:28] <rsc-> ah, yeah.
[17:28] <Nece228> _MMA_ you can ban me for a day
[17:29] <Nece228> _MMA_ :)
[17:29] <_MMA_> Nece228: It would be best if you exercise self control.
[17:29] <_MMA_> thorwil: So you were fine with the Breathe template as-is?
[17:31] <Cimi> _MMA_, yes
[17:31] <thorwil> rsc-: i'm wondering if we should specifically search for free software using talent, especially with Inkscape, make compliments and invite people
[17:31] <_MMA_> Cimi: Boooooooooo on you. :(
[17:31] <thorwil> rsc-: though this of course only after knowing a bit better how things go
[17:31]  * _MMA_ kicks Cimi in the butt and runs.
[17:31] <thorwil> _MMA_: i think you still need to update the text to explain how it works now
[17:31] <Cimi> :)
[17:32] <_MMA_> :)
[17:32] <_MMA_> thorwil: Ok. But the color swatches are fine?
[17:32] <Cimi> believe in me, they works better. Upgrade to the latest svn and adjust the lighborder ratio
[17:32] <rsc-> thorwil, i.e., target Inkscape/Gimp/Blender artists?
[17:32] <rsc-> yeah, why not. :)
[17:33] <Cimi> you won't have the blur but it will look more consistent
[17:33]  * Cimi is away, bb in a hour
[17:33] <rsc-> thorwil, i'm thinking there must be some sort of incentive for people to participate.
[17:33] <thorwil> _MMA_: i guess. if i actually start to work on the set, things might develop differently ... :)
[17:33] <rsc-> especially with "no default themes" out of the window.
[17:34] <rsc-> most people contribute to FLOSS projects because they use it, and want to improve something they don't like (just an assumption here).
[17:35] <_MMA_> thorwil: Well once we start to generate work it will become increasingly hard to make changes. I'll update the text. and make the "call for help" announcement.
[17:35] <thorwil> rsc-: a little sweet talk, being asked personally ... maybe also the idea of being part of an elite
[17:35] <thorwil> rsc-: though the later could also hurt us
[17:35] <rsc-> haha, there's an idea.
[17:36] <_MMA_> DannyKing: Looking through your screenshots, Are you using Ubuntu Studio, or just the theme? (a question for when you return)
[17:36] <rsc-> I think the best time to recruit is when there's some initial groundwork done that defines the direction.
[17:36] <thorwil> rsc-: agreed
[17:37] <thorwil> _MMA_: yes. i bet we will need iterations, anyway
[17:37] <_MMA_> thorwil: Sure. I'm just trying to take care of what I can now. You know.
[17:38] <rsc-> thorwil, whatcha think will have to be done first?
[17:38] <thorwil> rsc-: if this was a project with students, i would perhaps ask them to create mood pictures about ubuntu. an to create portraits of memebers of our target audience
[17:38] <rsc-> my idea would be a wallpaper or some slightly-unrelated artwork (in that example, a wallpaper will not directly define the desktop theme, the packaging of the ubuntu cd, whatever)
[17:38] <rsc-> there, yeah. eactly. :)
[17:39] <rsc-> something to set the mood, but not necessarily a part of the actual output.
[17:40] <rsc-> btw, here's some silly concept I was working at awhile ago: http://dump.ambiescent.com/i/bamboo.png (no specific direction, just "lets try some junk out and see if something isnpiring can come out of it")
[17:40] <rsc-> oopsie, http://dump.ambiescent.com/i/bamboo.jpg
[17:40] <thorwil> rsc-: maybe we should roughly pre-define the message and then indeed ask for moods and portraits. of course i'm worried about low participation
[17:41] <rsc-> :P of course, participation
[17:41] <rsc-> I would say, recruit with bite-sized tasks.
[17:42] <rsc-> i.e., not "come and be a part of the collosal project kyudo", but "come and create mood portraits with us"
[17:42] <_MMA_> rsc-: Slick. That might actually be pretty close to possible.
[17:42] <rsc-> _MMA_, a little silly-looking though.
[17:42] <rsc-> :)
[17:43] <thorwil> rsc-: bamboo might have quite much of what we will be looking for :)
[17:43]  * thorwil -> dinner
[17:43] <rsc-> thorwil, yeah, but maybe not that overbearingly woody (with wood grain all over the gtk!)
[17:43] <rsc-> :)
[17:43] <_MMA_> rsc-: I don't think so actually. Maybe a different choice for wood textures, but has a nice feel overall.
[17:44] <_MMA_> rsc-: Maybe just remove the texture on what would be the toolbar icons background.
[17:44] <rsc-> hehe, thanks.
[17:44] <rsc-> I was also thinking maybe replace the wood with something like metal, inspired by the look of softsynth programs (mac/win/vst/etc). something for ubuntu studio, perhaps. :)
[17:45] <_MMA_> Possible. The direction is open for Jaunty. But I fear the metal thing would draw a direct comparison to Mac.
[17:46] <rsc-> was thinking more along the lines of http://www.harmony-central.com/Synth/Data/Propellerhead/Docs/ReBirth-RB-338/ReBirth.jpg
[17:46] <rsc-> ;)
[17:46] <rsc-> but i dont know. just ideas for now :)
[17:46] <_MMA_> rsc-: I love the bamboo wallpaper you have. I could see this as inspiration for our communities effort for Jaunty.
[17:47] <rsc-> _MMA_, oh yeah. I thought so too when I found it.
[17:47] <_MMA_> rsc-: How big is the wallpaper and is it under a free license?
[17:47] <_MMA_> CC or something.
[17:47] <Nece228> gta san andreas lags with wine, i disabled pixel shade but the problem didnt gone, my video card is radeon 9600 pro 256 im using fglrx. in windows everythinks fine
[17:48] <_MMA_> Nece228: Wrong channel?
[17:48] <Nece228> _MMA_ im sorry i did a mistake
[17:48] <Nece228> _MMA_ i wanted to paste it to winehq lol
[17:48] <rsc-> _MMA_, its 4.5mb. I got it from a wallpack from DA and i recolored it, hold on
[17:49] <_MMA_> rsc-: Sure.
[17:50] <_MMA_> Cimi: My slight spacing between tabs has gone as well. Intentional?
[17:51]  * _MMA_ is around but must go make lunch.
[17:51] <DannyKing> _MMA_: On that screenshot I'm running Ubuntu (vanilla) hardy with the studio theme, although I run studio on my laptop
[17:52] <rsc-> _MMA_, I think it's from here: www.deviantart.com/deviation/90409241
[17:52] <rsc-> if not there, then one of her other submissions.
[17:52] <rsc-> not sure on the licensing details, though
[17:52] <_MMA_> DannyKing: Cool. It's always nice to see it being used. I'm sure Studio has given me some gray. :)
[17:53] <rsc-> _MMA_, http://customize.org/screenshots/57766
[17:53] <rsc-> here's another take on the wood grain idea.
[17:53] <_MMA_> rsc-: Looks like the author has retained the rights. Ill look further in 10 mins or so.
[17:53] <_MMA_> brb
[17:55] <rsc-> what do you need the open license for?
[17:56] <rsc-> it's not like it'll be a wallpaper.
[17:56] <rsc-> i mean, submitted as a community wallpaper
[17:56] <rsc-> ...if the intent is just to inspire the mood. :)
[17:56] <rsc-> anyway, maybe it's time we setup our own wiki for the effort.
[18:01] <Cimi> _MMA_, this is not specified by murrine, but from the gtkrc
[18:01] <Cimi> anyway firefox overrides the gtkrc removing the spacing
[18:01] <Cimi> taboverlap is the int value
[18:01] <Cimi> GtkNotebook:: taboverlap =
[18:01] <Cimi> IIRC
[18:05] <_MMA_> Cimi: On FF sure, I see this in Pidgin. The spacing between tabs has changed, I think I had it set to 1px. Ill look again in a sec. Maybe Im missing something.
[18:06] <_MMA_> rsc-: Inspiration sure. It's a nice wallpaper and we *might* want to use it. :) We can always make our own I guess.
[18:08] <_MMA_> rsc-: And Ive seen the customize.org pic. Looks nice. I like the softer look to the GTK theme.
[18:10] <_MMA_> rsc-: Is the GTK/Metacity real?
[18:23] <rsc-> _MMA_, any thoughts on getting Kyudo's own wiki (or something similar)? :)
[18:24] <_MMA_> rsc-: As this is still an effort within the Ubuntu community, where it is is fine.
[18:24] <_MMA_> Or did you mean something else?
[18:25] <rsc-> _MMA_, well, would it be fine to start 50+ new pages for the effort on the ubuntu wiki?
[18:25] <_MMA_> For?
[18:25] <rsc-> I mean, for Kyudo
[18:26] <_MMA_> But for what aspects of it?
[18:26] <rsc-> well, as it grows, there's gotta be some repository for people to submit their entries and such.
[18:26] <_MMA_> Generally, there's nothing we cant have alot of pages. I jsut cant think why we would need to have 'em.
[18:26] <rsc-> okay
[18:27] <_MMA_> Kyudo is just guidelines.
[18:27] <rsc-> mm, alright.
[18:27] <rsc-> hehe, sorry, i'm not sure on the structure of the wiki yet.
[18:27] <_MMA_> np
[18:28] <rsc-> for a moment there I thought the /Artwork area is just for posting artworks for the releases, etc
[18:28] <_MMA_> Any effort we as a community rallies around will simply use them. The effort will get it's own page. Like: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/BambooTheme or something.
[18:28] <rsc-> oh, alright
[18:29] <_MMA_> But this is only for focused efforts. Anyone is still free to create however they like.
[18:30] <rsc-> okay.
[18:34] <thorwil> _MMA_, rsc- Kyudo is not meant to be just guidelines from my site. it should flow into process into results
[18:35] <thorwil> so there could be artwork subpages there.
[18:36] <thorwil> rsc-: the only reasons for a standalone wiki i can think of is a nice url and custom theme. not worth the trouble, cost and disassociation from ubuntu
[18:36] <thorwil> rsc-: even for inspirational material, we better have the right to distribute ...
[18:45] <Cimi> _MMA_, I haven't changed anything in the code to justify your issue
[18:45] <Cimi> it could just be a setting inside the gtkrc
[18:56] <rsc-> thorwil, so how soon can we see the first volley for Kyudo?
[18:56] <rsc-> i.e., an invitation for the community to participate with some visuals
[18:57] <thorwil> rsc-: i am thinking about doing that right now :)
[18:57] <rsc-> lovely :)
[18:57] <thorwil> rsc-: you may make that announcment, too, if you like ^^
[18:58] <Nece228> what do you think this mockup? http://www.linuxloop.com/news/2008/06/28/interesting-early-artwork-for-intrepid-ibex/
[18:58] <rsc-> thorwil, haha im not sure what to announce :)
[18:58] <Nece228> i like first one theme
[18:58] <rsc-> nece: "Early"? more like "late" :P
[18:58] <rsc-> kidding
[18:59] <Nece228> its colorful, simple, and it looks modern
[18:59] <rsc-> oh, they are early
[18:59] <rsc-> im personally not a big fan of any of the latter 3.
[18:59] <Nece228> rsc- well its pretty old mockup but i think its great
[18:59] <Nece228> but still i think gelatin theme would be best choice
[19:00] <rsc-> Kith Intrepid was made into Didymous, if i remember right
[19:00] <thorwil> rsc-: i think i will ask for mood boards and paintings about what ubuntu means and the associated feeling. plus portraits of target audience members.
[19:00] <rsc-> i wasn't really sure about the color. perhaps it's an assumption based on my tastes, but it seems like a color that people would want to change right away
[19:01] <rsc-> thorwil, ah. I think you're looking for personas.
[19:01] <rsc-> while I have a bit of a marketing background, I'm still clueless as to how to draw the persona for the target audience. bummer
[19:01] <thorwil> rsc-: i considered to set some size, but maybe i better leave that open, excpet saying that it should be reasonable for online viewing
[19:02] <thorwil> rsc-: i do know the term personas and yes. now if i should use that term now? rather not :)
[19:03] <rsc-> why not? :) haha
[19:04] <rsc-> too much marketing stigma associated with it?
[19:04] <thorwil> ok then, term and explanation
[19:04] <rsc-> but anyway, I've worked with making some of these http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/8031/screenshot1uc8.png but I'm *so* not sure on how to make one for Ubuntu (sigh)
[19:04] <rsc-> but either way, there must be *some* way to describe the audience.
[19:04] <rsc-> whether with that sort of illustration or not.
[19:04] <thorwil> rsc-: this is kinda fitting http://www.lifeclever.com/5-reasons-to-design-with-mood-boards/
[19:06] <rsc-> and I'm afraid of ending up with "Tim is a 22 year old guy with a job as GeekSquad living in his mother's basement" :p
[19:06] <thorwil> rsc-: i had more artistic takes in mind, not text. visual ideas about people with environment and what they do and like
[19:07] <rsc-> http://www.flickr.com/groups/inspirationboards/pool/ that's nice.
[19:07] <rsc-> thorwil, that's nice.
[19:07] <rsc-> i'd be very curious as to how that can turn out. :)
[19:08] <thorwil> rsc-: i have to admit that i have no clue how to get at that myself. but i can pretend that i hold it back to not set a direction or to intimidate others ;)
[19:11] <rsc-> haha.
[19:13] <rsc-> anyway, with the personas example awhile ago, I just sparked a little thought for one persona:
[19:14] <rsc-> college student in early 20s / uses computer in his dorm to do his school paper work, surf the 'net / his laptop doubles has his entertainment center, he watches movies with it / needs to be around a lot, with many of his fellow students looking at his PC wherever he is
[19:15] <rsc-> I just thought of that now, it sorta fits the guidelines you defined in the  Foundation document.
[19:16] <thorwil> rsc-: yes. actually ubuntu should have personas
[19:16] <rsc-> how about a personas brainstorming page?
[19:16] <thorwil> rsc-: however, i have a feeling that they would carry quite a bit that does nothing for us right now :)
[19:17] <thorwil> rsc-: i'd be fine with that
[19:17] <rsc-> hehe, okay.
[19:17] <rsc-> somethign like Artwork/KyudoGuidelines/Personas ? (or /Audience)
[19:18] <thorwil> rsc-: yes, no  :)
[19:18] <rsc-> or would that be stepping on your territory? :)
[19:18] <rsc-> cool.
[19:18] <thorwil> rsc-: no. i need some people to take territory away! ;)
[19:18] <_MMA_> #rockbox
[19:18] <_MMA_> gah
[19:19] <rsc-> on an artwork-unrelated bit, will an iPod Touch be compatible with libgpod and the apps that use it? :P I'm thinking of getting one :p
[19:19] <thorwil> rsc-: so far this has been my baby, but it can't stay that way if it shall succeed. at some point it must be possible that i can pull back without things stopping. i do expect that to take months, though
[19:20] <rsc-> okay.
[19:20] <thorwil> rsc-: so Artwork/KyudoGuidelines/Personas is fine. add a link to the main page if you do that
[19:22] <Cimi> thorwil, your mockup could be implemented in murrine quite easily
[19:23] <rsc-> ooh what mockup?
[19:23] <rsc-> i wanna see
[19:23] <rsc-> :)
[19:23] <Cimi> even though I'm not in love with everything
[19:23] <thorwil> Cimi: hmm? which mockup?
[19:24] <Cimi> thorwil, something you posted days ago
[19:25]  * Cimi dinner
[19:25] <thorwil> Cimi: the only theme mockup i posted myself here is http://thorwil.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/ubuntu_theme_32.jpg
[19:26] <Cimi> thorwil, that one
[19:26] <thorwil> except for all the changes to Nautilus, then :)
[19:27] <Cimi> I mean buttons and similar
[19:27] <thorwil> ok
[19:27] <rsc-> Cimi, tabs?
[19:27] <Cimi> not centered
[19:27] <rsc-> those are some nice looking tabs.
[19:27] <rsc-> oh.
[19:27] <rsc-> bummer.
[19:27] <rsc-> :)
[19:27] <Cimi> but they works
[19:30] <rsc-> what about the checkboxes?
[19:35] <thorwil> rsc-: the idea behind those checkboxes was to make them look less like buttons / widgets by themselves, to improve the connection to the label
[19:36] <thorwil> rsc-: because the whole label is used as target area, but people tend to aim at that little part
[19:36] <rsc-> thorwil, would it be possible without pixmaps? :)
[19:37] <thorwil> later on spawned a different take on these widgets
[19:37] <thorwil> rsc-: pixmaps or custom code, i would think
[19:41] <thorwil> rsc-: pixmaps or custom code, i would think (just in case you missed that)
[19:51] <Nece228> ubuntu ibex should have these icons
[19:51] <Nece228> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Intrepid/Intrepid_Ibex_Icons_-_Art_Team
[19:51] <thorwil> oh wow, we now have a "new design still not implemented" bug in LP
[19:52] <rsc-> thorwil, cute. link :)
[19:52] <thorwil> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bugs/272832
[19:53] <_MMA_> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/human-theme/+bug/272832
[19:53] <rsc-> nvm. found it
[19:53] <rsc-> oh there it is
[19:53]  * _MMA_ was just looking as well.
[19:53] <Nece228> oh man why i dont know so much :/
[19:54] <_MMA_> Nece228: Because you don't ask questions 1st. ;)
[19:55] <rsc-> Nece228, they're not ready for the new release, unfortunately.
[19:55] <Nece228> _MMA_ i dont have much time for questions
[19:56] <_MMA_> Nece228: Then you are doomed to be uninformed,
[19:57] <Nece228> so newhuman will be default
[19:57] <rsc-> no, human will be
[19:57] <kwwii> you don't know that for certain, things can still change
[19:58] <kwwii> but I doubt it
[19:59] <thorwil> _MMA_, kwwii: any input regading a call for mood boards / drawing and persona portraits?
[19:59] <Nece228> i have to go sleep
[19:59] <Nece228> tommorow hard day
[19:59] <Nece228> good night
[19:59] <kwwii> thorwil: not as such
[20:00] <_MMA_> Thank Jeebus. Damn kids.
[20:00] <_MMA_> (in my best old cranky man voice)
[20:01]  * thorwil tries voodoo to change Nece's timezone to one where he will sleep when thorwil's here
[20:01] <_MMA_> thorwil: I'm sorry. I'm still wrapping my head around the concept as I deal with my own stuff here.
[20:02] <thorwil> _MMA_: np. just trying to keep you in :)
[20:02] <_MMA_> :)
[20:03] <rsc-> who's nece anyway
[20:03] <rsc-> ?
[20:03] <rsc-> and why's he being such a sourpuss?
[20:03] <thorwil> rsc-: how would we know?
[20:03] <rsc-> heh :)
[20:06] <zniavre> hello can i ask a critic about a gdm try  (im quite sure you can ) ?  :-D
[20:06] <thorwil> zniavre: don't ask to ask, just ask, please :)
[20:07] <zniavre> http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/187396/screenshot12.png    i just asked  to show ...
[20:08] <thorwil> zniavre: the symbols on the right, power-off and reboot are reasonably clear (for a technical audience), but what is the arrow?
[20:09] <zniavre> session options
[20:10] <thorwil> zniavre: the 3d circle of friends seems unnecessary. its perspective works against the impression of a smooth rounded surface below it
[20:10] <_MMA_> zniavre: It's interesting. I wouldn't use the wood background if you plan to make this public. There's no license to it and the source author has been disputed.
[20:10]  * _MMA_ agrees with thorwil's last post.
[20:12] <zniavre> ok i see for the logo's
[20:12] <thorwil> zniavre: the strong orange pulls attention to the sides, but that's not the important part. also, color perspective works against you, as if you jsut place orange and blue next to each other, the orange will seem to stand in front of the blue
[20:13] <thorwil> zniavre: the basic shapes and the idea of penetration do have potential
[20:15] <zniavre> thank you i will try to improve it if i can
[20:16] <thorwil> zniavre: np. i thank you for asking :)
[20:17] <zniavre> this license on background is difficult for me to understand
[20:18] <thorwil> zniavre: if you are not told otherwise by the author or rights-holder of a work, you do not have the right/permission to redistribute it
[20:18] <zniavre> even resized ?
[20:19] <zniavre> silly question forget it
[20:19] <zniavre> :o)
[20:19] <thorwil> doesn't matter. there's a grey area in thumbnailing like google does it
[20:20] <_MMA_> I really don't know why someone hasn't just made a new one. It would be easy enough to do.
[20:20] <zniavre> wich license should be used to be as free as possible?
[20:21] <zniavre> if someone want to make another wood wall
[20:21] <thorwil> zniavre: freeest of all is public domain, it means giving up all rights / granting all right to everyone
[20:21] <_MMA_> zniavre: Public Domain I guess?
[20:22] <zniavre> ok  thank you
[20:22] <thorwil> zniavre: then if you want to be given credit, you can use Creative Commons Attribution
[20:31] <thorwil> rsc-: just send out the mail. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/KyudoGuidelines/Portraits  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/KyudoGuidelines/Mood
[20:39] <thorwil> idiotic thread of the day: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=929828
[20:39] <thorwil> must be our friend Nece-something
[20:41] <_MMA_> No doubt.
[20:42] <thorwil> how long until troll article on digg? ^^
[20:46]  * _MMA_ shrugs.
[20:50] <rsc-> sigh
[20:50] <rsc-> i can see that thread growing to have a lot of whiners
[20:50] <thorwil> yeah. they can whine to each other, though :)
[20:51] <_MMA_> thorwil: Though not perfect, this: http://mma.users.ubuntustudio.org/floor_gray.png from this: http://www.hometownimprovements.net/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/DSCF1354.JPG
[20:51] <_MMA_> Should be altered and obscure enough to not matter
[20:51] <_MMA_> Just a quicky in any case.
[20:52] <thorwil> _MMA_: i would have to underline the not perfect, but i'm not hot on that wood floor thing, anyway ;)
[20:54] <_MMA_> I'm just thinking of making a free replacement all the kids can use . ;)
[20:54] <thorwil> _MMA_: you're too kind :)
[20:55] <_MMA_> I tend to like specific, bite-sized things I can quickly tackle.
[20:57] <thorwil> as do i, as you can clearly see from my latest undertakings ;)
[20:57] <rsc-> _MMA_: http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/9936/bg2el1.jpg
[20:57] <rsc-> like that?
[20:57] <rsc-> :p
[20:57] <rsc-> oh wait
[20:57] <rsc-> that is the same thing
[20:57] <rsc-> oops.
[20:57] <rsc-> err
[20:57] <rsc-> damn, nevermind
[20:58] <_MMA_> ;)
[20:58] <thorwil> rsc-: lost a color channel? :)
[20:59] <_MMA_> thorwil: In the end Ill most likely make something up in SVG and put it out there.
[21:00] <rsc-> thorwil, i dont kow, i just found it somewhere :)
[21:00] <thorwil> i wonder if i should add some more help on the Portrait and Mood pages, but i'll be gone in a few minutes
[21:00] <thorwil> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=5855162#post5855162
[21:01]  * thorwil waves to aantn
[21:01] <thorwil> pingback pingpong
[21:03] <aantn> hey thorwil!
[21:06] <rsc-> thorwil, yeah, i think it needs a little more explanation.
[21:06] <rsc-> im not sure everyone knows what a mood board is.
[21:06] <rsc-> and how it can be useful
[21:07] <thorwil> rsc-: would be glad if you could jump in there
[21:07] <rsc-> unfortunately ive gotta go as well
[21:07] <rsc-> :)
[21:07] <rsc-> 4am here
[21:08] <thorwil> heh
[21:12] <thorwil> good night! :)
[21:25] <kwwii> _MMA_: you will be happy to know that I am working on the human icon theme atm and just touched up your version of the human-computer icon
[21:25] <kwwii> I will now include it...thanks for your contribution :-)
[21:26] <_MMA_> :D
[21:26] <_MMA_> I contribute!!
[21:26] <kwwii> I will put your name in the authors file :D now you are famous!
[21:26] <kwwii> now that you are a real member of the team, take a look at the bug list, it is quite long :-)
[21:27] <_MMA_> Free software rockstar.
[21:27] <rsc-> LOL
[21:40]  * _MMA_ heads off for a bit to play with his kids.