[06:00] <sgo11> hi, I am running ubuntu gnome 14.04. how can I switch to lubuntu? thanks.
[06:08] <sgo11> anyway, I think I simply apt-get install lubuntu-desktop package.
[06:11] <ianorlin> apt-get install lubuntu-desktop will get all lubuntu desktop stuff on top of gnome
[06:12] <sgo11> ianorlin, what to do after installing lubuntu-desktop? will simply reboot be enough?
[06:12] <ianorlin> log out and log in will be enough
[06:12] <ianorlin> then you can choose lubuntu as your session
[06:13] <sgo11> ianorlin, logout will continue to use gdm.
[06:13] <ianorlin> ah then reboot will be needed
[06:14] <sgo11> ianorlin, let me reboot. brb. thanks.
[06:26] <sgo11> ianorlin, FYI, I have to run `sudo dpkg-reconfigure gdm` manually.
[06:37] <sgo11> I have connected an external VGA display. How can I enable it and rotate it 90 degree in lubuntu? In gnome, I simply use the "Display" setting UI tool. thanks.
[06:48] <sgo11> I tried "Preferences" --> "Monitor Settings", it can not achieve my goal. can anyone help, please?
[07:00] <sgo11> I tried this command "xrandr --output LVDS1 --mode 1366x768 --pos 0x1080 --rotate normal --output VGA1 --mode 1920x1080 --pos 0x0 --rotate left". It has a problem. my LVDS1 is not in the right of my VGA1. they overlap each other. why?
[07:02] <yz3pD> use arandr it's easier
[07:04] <sgo11> yz3pD, just saw your reply. which channel should I reply you? thanks. how to use arandr? just replace xrandr by arandr in the above command I used? thanks.
[07:05] <sgo11> yz3pD, installing arandr. it seems it's a GUI tool. i don't need to use command line then. thanks.
[07:07] <sgo11> yz3pD, arandr works very well. thanks a lot.
[12:51] <sgo11> hi, I use arandr to configure two monitors. one is built-in LVDS1 1366x768 with normal rotation and another one is VGA1 1920x1080 with left rotation. after the change is made by arandr, pcmanfm uses up 100% cpu. I tried "killall -9 pcmanfm" one time. it does not solve the issue. pcmanfm is auto-restarted after the kill. Then I issued "killall -9 pcmanfm" about 10 times. after about 10 times kill, the issue is resolved. do anyone have any ideas why? how to a
[12:51] <sgo11> void this later? thanks.
[13:02] <sgo11> when pcmanfm eats up 100% of cpu, the wallpaper looks fine. when the issue is resolved by killing pcmanfm many times, the wallpaper looks weird. not sure if this info helps or not.
[13:09] <sgo11> yz3pD, hi, you told me to use arandr. I got one problem and just asked here before you join the channel. can I post the question again if you can help? my pcmanfm eats up 100% cpu core. the issue is resolved after killing pcmanfm many times. any ideas? thanks.
[13:11] <yz3pD> maybe i can help you but not sure, but please pot your question again
[13:11] <yz3pD> *post
[13:12] <sgo11> yz3pD, I got two monitors. one is LVDS1 1366x768 with normal rotation and another one is VGA1 1920x1080 with left rotation. after the change is made by arandr, pcmanfm uses up 100% cpu. I tried "killall -9 pcmanfm" one time. it does not solve the issue. pcmanfm is auto-restarted after the kill. Then I issued "killall -9 pcmanfm" about 10 times. after about 10 times kill, the issue is resolved.
[13:13] <sgo11> when pcmanfm eats up 100% of cpu, the wallpaper looks fine. when the issue is resolved by killing pcmanfm many times, the wallpaper looks weird. not sure if this info helps or not.
[13:14] <yz3pD> if pcmanfm doesn't work fine then try thunar (or spacefm)
[13:14] <yz3pD> wallpaper is drawn by pcmanfm
[13:15] <yz3pD> i never had problems with pcmanfm, sure that it is pcmanfm who uses 100% cpu?
[13:16] <sgo11> yz3pD, ok. I never heard thunar. I will google it now. yeah, I checked with htop. pcmanfm uses 100% cpu of one core. after killing it about 10 times, the problem is gone.
[13:16] <yz3pD> how many core do you have?
[13:16] <yz3pD> do you have installed additional drivers (i had slow graphics, installed these proprietary drivers and graphics works fine for me)
[13:17] <yz3pD> *how many cores?
[13:18] <yz3pD> thunar is the fm of xfce
[13:18] <sgo11> yz3pD, I don't have any additional drivers. my laptop is optimus which has both intel and nvidia card. I think I am using intel card right now. I have 4 cpu cores.
[13:19] <sgo11> the problem is gone after killing pcmanfm many times. I don't have slow graphics. everything works fine after kills.
[13:24] <yz3pD> so you are sure that there are no additional drivers aviable for your pc?
[13:24] <yz3pD> did you installed thunar?
[13:26] <yz3pD> sgo11, after installing thunar you can change default filemanager in "Default applications for LXSession" under launching applications
[13:29] <sgo11> yz3pD, I am doing work in that laptop now. I will try thunar later. I can not end my session yet. Since I have both intel card and nvidia card, nvidia driver is available for my nvidia card. but right now, nvidia optimus driver is broken for my laptop. thanks.
[13:30] <yz3pD> ok then fix it and reboot, see later :)
[13:33] <sgo11> yz3pD, thanks. :)
[14:14] <sgo11> hi, can anyone tell me why Alt+F2 does not work in lubuntu 14.04? thanks.
[14:15] <yz3pD> lubuntu problem... just use ctrl+alt+t to open terminal
[14:15] <sgo11> I saw <keybind key="A-F2"><action name="Execute"> in ~/.config/openbox/lubuntu-rc.xml
[14:15] <sgo11> yz3pD, what causes it? how to work around it? I used to running all programs in Run.
[14:16] <yz3pD> yes but it doensn't works in lubuntu 14.04
[14:16] <yz3pD> sgo11, use terminal to see output, or create a starter
[14:16] <sgo11> yz3pD, ok, thanks. is there a bug for it?
[14:17] <yz3pD> i don't know why it doesn't works, it's a bug
[14:17] <yz3pD> maybe be fixed in lubuntu 14.10
[14:18] <sgo11> yz3pD, I found this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lubuntu-default-settings/+bug/1313355
[14:18] <sgo11> what does "fix committed" mean?
[14:18] <yz3pD> i don't know
[14:19] <yz3pD> is english your native language?
[14:19] <sgo11> yz3pD, no. why? I think my english sounds weird. haha. :)
[14:20] <yz3pD> i'm from germany and also think my english sounds weird ;)
[14:20] <yz3pD> but your english is really ok
[14:20] <sgo11> yz3pD, i am from China. :)
[14:20] <yz3pD> lol
[14:21] <sgo11> english is very hard for me.
[14:21] <yz3pD> but the workaround works!
[14:21] <yz3pD> lxpanelctl run
[14:22] <sgo11> yeah, it works. cool.
[14:24] <yz3pD> google translator also doesn't know what "conmitted" means
[14:25] <yz3pD> *committed
[14:25] <yz3pD> 承诺
[14:25] <yz3pD> does that helps you? ;)
[14:26] <sgo11> oh. I know what "committed" mean. it means the code is uploaded and committed to the code base. but what I don't understand is what it means in that bug system and when I am going to get that fix package in the official repo.
[14:28] <yz3pD> i think that it means that you have to do this fix
[14:28] <anarkhos> is it necessary to have a swap partition in order for hibernation to work?
[14:28] <sgo11> yz3pD, ok. :)
[14:29] <yz3pD> yes for hibernation you need swap
[14:29] <anarkhos> ok that explains
[14:29] <yz3pD> but with slow hard drive it can take some time ... some very long time
[14:29] <anarkhos> suppose i should create one. i just created a 20gb ext4 for lubuntu, nothing else
[14:30] <anarkhos> slow harddrive... well the computer got 2gb ram and 1.3ghz cpu
[14:30] <anarkhos> so, given there is 2gb ram, what's a good swap partition size? 4gb?
[14:31] <yz3pD> i'm running an lubuntu without swap, because i don't need hibernate, and when my system starts using swap parti the system hangs up
[14:31] <anarkhos> o
[14:31] <yz3pD> so i don't use swap any more
[14:31] <anarkhos> ok hibernation is not crucial rally, but i dislike that it doesn't work
[14:31] <anarkhos> really
[14:32] <yz3pD> what means crucial?
[14:32] <anarkhos> very important
[14:32] <yz3pD> ok
[14:33] <anarkhos> i just dislike bugs
[14:33] <anarkhos> ok...
[14:33] <anarkhos> "As a base minimum, it's highly recommended that the swap space should be equal to the amount of physical memory (RAM)."
[14:33] <yz3pD> i also
[14:33] <anarkhos> so at least 2gb
[14:33] <yz3pD> yes
[14:34] <yz3pD> but when swap is bigger than ram systems slows down
[14:34] <yz3pD> so max. 2gb
[14:35] <yz3pD> and lubuntu is a minimalistic os, so you have to deal with that some things doesn't work
[14:35] <anarkhos> no
[14:35] <sgo11> from my experience, if you are not using ssd, swap is kinda useless. when the ram is full and swap is used, the system becomes extremely slow.
[14:35] <anarkhos> min. 2gb according to ubuntu.com
[14:35] <anarkhos> minimum the same amount of swap as the amount of ram
[14:36] <yz3pD> sgo11, that is exactly my experience
[14:36] <anarkhos> hmm
[14:36] <anarkhos> " Also, it's recommended that the swap space is twice the amount of physical memory (RAM) depending upon the amount of hard disk space available for the system"
[14:37] <sgo11> swap is really useless. you don't need to give too much. the same amount of ram is enough. but most articles will suggest double size of ram. doesn't really matter. when swap is used, you system will become very slow unless you are using ssd.
[14:37] <anarkhos> useless? hibernation doesn't work without a swap partition it seems
[14:38] <sgo11> useless when you don't use hibernation. :)
[14:38] <anarkhos> haha
[14:38] <yz3pD> anarkhos, you have to see if you wanna use swap and if you wanna, then your experience will show how big it should be
[14:38] <anarkhos> so is it most common to just don't create swap partitions these days? is it a relic from the past?
[14:39] <yz3pD> no
[14:39] <anarkhos> if so then maybe i should just not care about hibernation
[14:40] <yz3pD> on big systems with fast processor i also use swap but not on small systems with less ram , slow cpu, small hdd (on which i use lubuntu)
[14:41] <yz3pD> i don't
[14:41] <anarkhos> does it sound like a bad idea to use swap on a computer with 2gb ram and a 1.3ghz cpu?
[14:41] <sgo11> I just create swap partition with the same size of ram for safe. if disk space is not an issue for you, you can create one with double size of ram. most articles will suggest to use double size of ram.
[14:41] <anarkhos> right
[14:42] <sgo11> hard drive is cheap. I got 1 TB in my laptop. 2gb or 4gb are the same thing.
[14:43] <yz3pD> for me swap doesn't make sence under lubuntu but maybe for you it does
[14:43] <yz3pD> try it out
[14:44] <sgo11> I got 6gb ram. I think my swap will never be used in lubuntu (which is a good thing).
[14:45] <anarkhos> yz3pD: no i think your suggestions are good
[14:45] <anarkhos> hibernation isn't very important
[14:51] <yz3pD> anarkhos, some time ago i also wanted to use hibernation feature, but it doesn't worked good with my pc and it took so long because of slow hard disk
[14:51] <yz3pD> so i never used spaw
[14:51] <yz3pD> *swap
[14:53] <yz3pD> but maybe your hd is faster and hibernate works for you, than it makes sence ;)
[14:58] <anarkhos> we'll see. i think i will just wait and see if more important problems appear soon. there aren't any at the moment. im very satisfied with lubuntu. if i have no problems for a long time, maybe ill then look into this swap/hibernation issue
[14:58] <anarkhos> wait, i think i noticed a bug yesterday...
[14:59] <anarkhos> i typed "sudo shutdown now", but i don't think it really shut down. the screen got black, but the green light by the power button was still there
[14:59] <anarkhos> so i had to hit the power button to shutdown
[14:59] <anarkhos> is this common?
[15:00] <anarkhos> but normal shutdown via the menu works fine
[15:03] <anarkhos> also, apart from swap, do you create many partitions? one for boot, one for home etc.? i have everything on one partition as it is now
[15:21] <yz3pD> anarkhos, i have only 1 partition
[15:21] <yz3pD> anarkhos, try "init 0" in place of "shutdown now"
[15:23] <anarkhos> hmm
[15:23] <anarkhos> ok
[15:23] <anarkhos> yes, "init 0" worked. thanks a lot
[15:24] <anarkhos> so it's not always bugs i see. it's me not using the right commands
[16:06] <yz3pD> sgo1
[21:36] <patarr> anyone know where pcmanfm is started? It starts mine with some crappy arguments that break my wallpapers.
[21:36] <patarr> if i kill the process and it restarts, it works great.
[21:36] <patarr> Where can I modify this?
[21:38] <phillw> patarr: Menu --> Preferences --> Default applications for LXSession --> Autostart tab is where I'd suggest starting.
[21:39] <holstein> i might try as a different user, and see if the issue is with my user's session


[00:01] <lifeless> jml: hi
[00:07]  * jml waves hello
[00:08] <jml> lifeless: are you waiting on anything from me for the testresources merge?
[00:09] <lifeless> no
[00:09] <lifeless> just time
[00:09] <jml> ok.
[00:14] <lifeless> jam: ping
[00:23] <poolie> re.search(r'^(?!Bazaar)', 'Bazaar')
[00:24] <lifeless> poolie: ?
[00:24] <poolie> is for jam. not for you.
[00:24] <poolie> In [11]: re.search(r'^(?!.*\[merge\])', 'Subject: [merge]taheout')
[00:24] <poolie> In [12]: re.search(r'^(?!.*\[merge\])', 'Subject: [mer]taheout')
[00:24] <poolie> Out[12]: <_sre.SRE_Match object at 0x8a2dfa8>
[00:24] <jam> lifeless: hi
[00:24] <jam> I should be heading out soon
[00:24] <lifeless> oh, on the call? didn't see a invite..
[00:24] <lifeless> jam: I want to talk per file log
[00:25] <jam> we can chat briefly
[00:25] <poolie> In [14]: re.search(r'^Subject: (?!.*\[merge\])', 'Subject: re: re: [merge]taheout')
[00:25] <lifeless> irc or voice? either is fine for me
[00:25] <jam> ATM, I'm thinking we could add a flag to switch between "only the things in the per-file graph" and "also include merges"
[00:27] <lifeless> so
[00:28] <lifeless> IIUC what we have at the moment is roughly 'when log -v would mention the file' union (per-file graph nodes) with containing commits listed to give an organisation sense
[00:30] <jam> lifeless: I'm not sure how you are defining "containing commits", as I'm pretty sure it is just when "bzr log -v" would mention the file
[00:30] <jam> (is what we have now)
[00:30] <lifeless> say we have a triangle
[00:30] <lifeless> A
[00:30] <lifeless>  B
[00:30] <lifeless> C
[00:31] <lifeless> A<->C doesn't alter FOO
[00:31] <lifeless> B<->C does
[00:31] <lifeless> and A<->B does
[00:31] <jam> lifeless: so you modify B and then revert it to C
[00:31] <lifeless> (e.g. b makes a change, but its rejected when merged to A
[00:31] <jam> ?
[00:31] <lifeless> yrd
[00:31] <lifeless> yes
[00:31] <lifeless> meh, not complex enough to show
[00:31] <lifeless> anyhow
[00:31] <jam> right, we'll show C
[00:32] <jam> I think, because it is different from a merge parent, but I'm not 100% sure
[00:32] <jam> however, that should also show up in the per-file log
[00:32] <jam> sorry, per-file graph
[00:32] <lifeless> thats what I mean by not complex enough to show the point
[00:33] <jam> I should really get going. Perhaps we can phone-chat later?
[00:33] <lifeless> so one benefit of showing the file where log -v would show it, is that its unsurprising to users
[00:33] <lifeless> please, ping me
[00:33] <lifeless> poolie: have you done the daily chat?
[00:33] <poolie> yes
[00:34] <poolie> i pinged you on irc just beforehand
[00:34] <poolie> if we call from inside the call everyone has to talk over the ring tone
[00:34] <lifeless> poolie: yes, I saw, but didn't see a skype prompt pop up
[00:34] <lifeless> poolie: I'm not stressed, was just confirming
[01:18] <lifeless> chore to run, brb
[01:25] <abentley> poolie: Do you want to talk about reivews now?
[01:35] <jam> lifeless: ping for great justice
[01:43] <poolie> abentley, sure, if you want to
[01:43] <abentley> poolie: I think this is the day we planned to.  So let's.
[01:44] <lifeless> jam: I've replied in mail
[01:44] <jam> lifeless: yeah. It sure looks like you wanted to vote in there :)
[01:45] <jam> lifeless: I replied to you. And basically I think we are in agreement.
[01:47] <lifeless> jam: ok, cool then
[01:47] <lifeless> I'd approved previously, consider it reinstated
[03:11] <lifeless> igc: you should upgrade http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Eian-clatworthy/bzr-usertest/trunk/.
[03:36] <lifeless> abentley: around ? I'd like to run an idea past you
[03:37] <abentley> lifeless: okay
[03:37] <lifeless> this is about rich roots.
[03:38] <lifeless> I'm thinking to remove the watershed event by writing a rich-root->non-rich-root-with-root-in-rev-property->rich-root-by-reading-rev-property set of code
[03:39] <lifeless> abentley: What I want to ask you is two-fold; do you think this is a reasonable thing to do, and do you think I can avoid a new rich-root-format to enable this (I don't think I can)
[03:40] <lifeless> abentley: uhm, various little details that might matter are - I'm not suggesting to add rich-root capabilities to non-rich-root formats, just allow pulling from rich to non-rich
[03:40] <abentley> lifeless: So, roundtripping?
[03:41] <lifeless> abentley: yes
[03:41] <lifeless> abentley: I think its 1-2 days work tops, and if it gets rid of the watershed it may allow more motion on this
[03:42] <abentley> lifeless: The lack of round-tripping is not the biggest issue for me.  The biggest issue for me is the whole "let's add a new serializer as a condom" thing.
[03:43] <lifeless> abentley: uhm, wasn't that your idea though?
[03:45] <abentley> kinda originally.  But then when I realized that we had to mutate the sha1s for existing rich-root formats, I didn't see much point in it.
[03:45] <abentley> But then you wanted it as a "condom" to ensure that sha1s were correct.
[03:46] <lifeless> abentley: I think we must have talked past each other then; I want the sha1 chain to be intact regardless of repo format and serializer.
[03:46] <lifeless> abentley: thats my primary issue, so that 'check' can actually do its job
[03:47] <abentley> So would you have any hesitation about making 1.6-rich-root our next default format?
[03:48] <lifeless> abentley: my set of concerns is ([has-the-sha1-thing-been-fixed, how-will-users-find-the-change])
[03:49] <lifeless> abentley: I admit to some trepidation that the one-way nature of the change will burn some users that want to interoperate, as 'init' 'init-repo' etc will all suddenly make them unable to interoperate with bzr's more than 2 months old
[03:49] <lifeless> abentley: the sha1 is a MUST for me; I'll happily follow consensus on the other
[03:49] <abentley> So has the sha1 thing been fixed?
[03:50] <lifeless> abentley: there is an outstanding patch of yours; I'll poke around at the sha1 code in the near future and see
[03:51] <abentley> Right, so I believe that's the last piece.
[03:51] <abentley> And the problem with that patch is that it's overbroad.
[03:53] <abentley> I think the interoperability situation is quite good.  bzr 1.0 supported "rich-root", so anything in 1.6-rich-root can be converted into a 1.0 compatible format.
[03:53] <lifeless> abentley: oh true
[03:54] <lifeless> a possibly useful test would be a script to mass-convert everything on lp to rich root, to see if it all works
[03:54] <lifeless> (s/convert/branch and do a convert locally|branch-into-a-rich-root-branch/)
[03:54] <abentley> lifeless: Why do you think it would be useful for mthaddon to kill me? :-)
[03:54] <lifeless> tom would love it
[03:55] <lifeless> we have that shiny new machien
[03:58] <abentley> So possibly a torture-test would be useful.  Bazaar itself was pretty tortuous.
[03:59] <abentley> My patch handles weaves repos and their predecessor format.  You said you thought it should only cover knits and packs, IIRC.
[03:59] <abentley> We land that, and reconcile will fix sha1s.
[04:01] <abentley> This doesn't prevent revisions with bad sha1s from being fetched, of course.
[04:03] <abentley> Does that remove your concerns about correctness?
[04:03] <abentley> lifeless: ^^^
[04:11] <lifeless> abentley: I thought it should only cover the cases where we know that fetch creates broken sha1s
[04:11] <lifeless> abentley: not-fetching-bad-sha1s will come in after this because I can actually land my patch to do that without breaking every rich root user :)
[04:33] <abentley> lifeless: I think that TreeTransform should be able to set the SHA1 of a file.  Do you agree?
[04:33] <lifeless> abentley: with a caveat - the stat cache cutoff time
[04:34] <lifeless> abentley: which basically means that any file we write we usually can't put in the stat cache
[04:35] <abentley> lifeless: do renames update the stat values used?
[04:36] <abentley> Actually, even if they did, only a few files are actually renamed.
[04:36] <lifeless> abentley: I don't know for windows; for unix no - the directories inode changes, not the files
[04:36] <lifeless> IIRC doing a hard link invalidates the stat cache
[04:37] <abentley> lifeless: Pity that.
[04:37] <abentley> But I think many tree constructions would take long enough that we could use the stat values.
[04:38] <abentley> So for those files, at least, we'd be able to avoid the initial SHA.
[04:38] <lifeless> abentley: we can use the stat value if we write the dirstate outside the cutoff time AND noone-else could have touched the file inside that period either
[04:39] <abentley> lifeless: So if the file is inside .bzr/workingtree/limbo, is that safe enough?
[04:39] <lifeless> abentley: so pragmatically, I think that if the cutoff time is passed while its in limbo, then its safe
[04:39] <lifeless> abentley: yes, if someone fucks with limbo they can keep both pieces
[04:41] <abentley> So for TT to update this data, should we update apply_inventory_delta, or introduce a new function?
[04:41] <lifeless> abentley: I have a branch up for review that adds a function to tree- _observed_sha1
[04:41] <abentley> lifeless: Yeah, I saw it.
[04:41] <lifeless> abentley: its the commit-updates-sha patch; is that function suitable for you ?
[04:42] <abentley> lifeless: I thought it might be better to do the operation on a list.  But I could also use _observed_sha1.
[04:42] <lifeless> abentley: I think a new function, that takes a list form of the parameters for _observed_sha1 would be fine
[04:43] <lifeless> abentley: possibly just make _observed_sha1 take a list of tuples
[05:15] <ReachingFarr> I'm new to Bazaar so please bear with me.  I have started a project on my local machine and now I want to move it to a centralized location (hopefully with full history).  Am I correct in thinking that `put` is the command I'm looking for?
[05:15] <fullermd> ReachingFarr: push.
[05:15] <fullermd> I don't think 'put' _is_ a command...
[05:15] <ReachingFarr> Hehe ya, sorry.  Push.
[05:16] <Peng_> ReachingFarr: That's exactly what the "push" command is for.
[05:16] <Peng_> ReachingFarr: Have you been reading a tutorial?
[05:17] <ReachingFarr> OK, second problem then is why does my Bazaar install not deal with authentication over http.  From what I have seen while Googleing it is supported but when I try pushing it just errors out on 401.
[05:18] <fullermd> At one time, it would only even try auth if you put the username in the URL.  Not sure when/if that changed.
[05:18] <ReachingFarr> Peng_: I did a while ago then started using Bazaar locally.  I thought `push` was the correct command and have been trying to use it as such.  But the authentication issue is why I'm really here and thought I would make sure I was using the correct command first.
[05:20] <ReachingFarr> Part of the problem here is that Fedora only has 1.5 in the repo.  I guess I better update to something recent before I start asking for help.
[05:24] <fullermd> 1.5 isn't that old.  I'm not sure much has changed in auth since then.
[05:25] <fullermd> (updating is a good idea in general, of course.  But I don't think it'll fix this)
[05:27] <Peng_> ReachingFarr: Do you have FTP or SFTP access to your server? That might be easier to use than HTTP auth.
[05:28] <ReachingFarr> Peng_: I don't think so.  We are using my friends Dreamhost account and I'm not entirely sure how things are set up on it.
[05:29] <fullermd> Dreamhost?  You can set up the smart server on Dreamhost?
[05:29] <Peng_> fullermd: I wouldn't recommend it due to procwatch.
[05:30] <Peng_> ReachingFarr: Well, DH offers SFTP access, but your user may not be configured to allow it. Try it, or ask your friend.
[05:31] <fullermd> Well, that was somewhat my point...
[05:32] <ReachingFarr> Whenever I put the username in the address<EMAIL_ADDRESS>bzr crashes on me.  And this is after I installed 1.7.
[05:38] <fullermd> Crash how?  Pastebin it.
[05:38] <seb_kuzminsky> i have to work with an svn repo...  I'd like to use bzr & loom to do it.  Am I crazy?
[05:40] <seb_kuzminsky> what i mean is, is it possible?
[05:45] <Peng_> seb_kuzminsky: Check out the bzr-svn plugin. But yes, you're probably crazy. :P
[05:46] <seb_kuzminsky> i got that installed, (0.4.11, from intrepid), and i branched my svn repo to a local shared repo, that was slow but it worked :-)
[05:47] <Peng_> Sounds about right.
[05:47] <seb_kuzminsky> i branched locally, checked out, and loomified and we'll see what happens next ...
[05:50] <ReachingFarr> fullermd: http://pastebin.com/d5317e471
[05:51] <fullermd> Well, that's pretty wacky.
[05:51] <fullermd> vila: ^^^
[05:52] <fullermd> vila's the http guy; he'll know better what to look at.
[05:52] <fullermd> You have the fgci/mod_python smart server all setup and working on it?
[05:52] <fullermd> Er, fcgi that is.
[05:56] <seb_kuzminsky> what does 'bzr record' do?  i dont understand the --help message
[05:59] <seb_kuzminsky> a thread has a "tip", but what does that mean?
[06:01] <lifeless> seb_kuzminsky: the tip of a thread is just like the tip of a branch; its a pointer into the revision graph
[06:01] <seb_kuzminsky> that makes sense...
[06:03] <seb_kuzminsky> if i 'bzr push' from a thread, will it also push all the threads below it?
[06:04] <lifeless> two cases; pushing from a loom to an existing normal branch; this pushes the current thread into that branch
[06:04] <lifeless> the threads below it are included if you have merged them into that thread (which is what happens when you 'up-thread')
[06:05] <lifeless> second case; pushing from a loom to a new branch (or to an existing loom)
[06:05] <lifeless> this will push the last recorded loom (much like 'push' from a normal branch pushes the last commit from that branch)
[06:06] <seb_kuzminsky> lifeless: thanks!
[06:06] <seb_kuzminsky> is there something like 'bzr log' for 'record'?
[06:08] <seb_kuzminsky> or is that the wrong way of thinking of it?
[06:08] <lifeless> seb_kuzminsky: there should be; I haven't written it yet :(
[06:09] <seb_kuzminsky> wow, you wrote loom?!  I love it!  (though i'm having a bit of a hard time learning to use it)
[06:09] <seb_kuzminsky> thanks for some sweet software :-)
[06:09] <lifeless> thanks, I'm glad you like it
[06:10] <seb_kuzminsky> hm, i think it just ate my changes (or i'm misunderstanding how to use it)
[06:11] <lifeless> it shouldn't have any bugs of that nature; what were the last few things you did?
[06:11] <Peng_> How do you think I should set up logging for the HTTP smart server?
[06:12] <Peng_> Just a couple lines with the logging module? Something in bzrlib?
[06:12] <lifeless> spiv: ^ your public awaits
[06:12]  * Peng_ reads trace.py
[06:13] <lifeless> Peng_: it probably already logs to ~/.bzr.log
[06:13] <seb_kuzminsky> lifeless: i just tried it again and it did the same thing
[06:13] <seb_kuzminsky> bzr loomify; bzr create-thread test
[06:13] <seb_kuzminsky> # hack, hack
[06:13] <seb_kuzminsky> bzr commit
[06:14] <seb_kuzminsky> bzr combine-thread
[06:14] <lifeless> ah, yes, you misunderstand :P
[06:14] <seb_kuzminsky> now my loom has just the original thread, and it doesnt have the change from the test thread
[06:14] <seb_kuzminsky> oh good :-)
[06:14] <lifeless> combine-thread is used to remove a thread from the list :P
[06:14] <seb_kuzminsky> ah
[06:14] <lifeless>   Use combine-thread to remove a thread which has been merged into upstream.
[06:14] <seb_kuzminsky> hm, just like the --help says...
[06:14] <seb_kuzminsky> right
[06:14] <lifeless> (the help describes exactly what it does)
[06:15] <seb_kuzminsky> so i should bzr push before i combine-thread?
[06:15] <seb_kuzminsky> then up in the bottom thread?
[06:15] <Peng_> lifeless: Why do you think it would use ~/.bzr.log? I mean, it isn't normally used when you "import bzrlib", is it?
[06:15] <lifeless> seb_kuzminsky: so, the general use case would be
[06:15] <lifeless> Peng_: oh, hmm, gues snot
[06:15] <seb_kuzminsky> (my branch is bound to an svn repo)
[06:15] <lifeless> seb_kuzminsky: a trunk, at URL $TRUNK (your svn repo in this case)
[06:15] <seb_kuzminsky> sorry, unbound but parent is an svn repo
[06:16] <lifeless> seb_kuzminsky: a developer with a loom, containing a bottom thread 'trunk' (or similar)
[06:16] <lifeless> seb_kuzminsky: then you create threads and hack. when a particular thread is accepted by upstream, doing a pull in the 'trunk' thread will bring in changes you already have higher up in your stack.
[06:17] <lifeless> seb_kuzminsky: when you (up-thread & commit) those changes, the difference the thread contains will go away, and you would then combine thread
[06:17] <Peng_> Hmm, I could change the location by setting os.environ['BZR_LOG'[, right?
[06:17] <Peng_> Err, minus the syntax error. :P
[06:17] <seb_kuzminsky> lifeless: i see
[06:17] <lifeless> seb_kuzminsky: so yes, you should push the thread you've finished into svn before removing it :P
[06:18] <seb_kuzminsky> heh, that might help :-)
[06:18] <lifeless> seb_kuzminsky: or have the person that will accept and commit the patch do so,a nd then you get it back via your trunk thread
[06:18] <seb_kuzminsky> i think the "combine" in combine-thread threw me off
[06:18] <seb_kuzminsky> if i'd read your docs i would have understood
[06:19] <seb_kuzminsky> thanks for teaching me :-)
[06:19] <lifeless> seb_kuzminsky: theres been some talk of renaming it
[06:19] <lifeless> this is evidence towards doing that
[06:19] <seb_kuzminsky> drop-thread or delete-thread maybe?
[06:19] <lifeless> yah
[06:19] <seb_kuzminsky> or evidence i should read tfm
[06:19] <lifeless> :P
[06:19] <fullermd> drop-thread is a fast version of down-thread   :p
[06:19] <lifeless> knowing the tool is good; reducing the learning curve is also good
[06:20] <Peng_> If I do "from bzrlib import trace; trace.push_log_file(...)", will anything have been logged yet?
[06:22] <seb_kuzminsky> lifeless: when should i record?
[06:22] <spiv> Peng_: there was a patch about this to the list recently
[06:24] <spiv> Peng_: http://bundlebuggy.aaronbentley.com/project/bzr/request/%3C418c22640809141502o187ee0det95166e025836aba%40mail.gmail.com%3E
[06:24] <lifeless> seb_kuzminsky: whenever you like; the main reason for record is to allow collaboration on a loom-scale between loom-users
[06:24] <spiv> (Which oddly was approved by John, but not merged...)
[06:25] <lifeless> seb_kuzminsky: if you're just managing your own patches via loom, and are not publishing your loom anywhere, you don't need to push at all.
[06:25] <seb_kuzminsky> dont need to record at all?
[06:25] <lifeless> seb_kuzminsky: otherwise, if you are sharing them, or are publishing your loom, record before you push
[06:25] <lifeless> seb_kuzminsky: yes, I made a typo :)
[06:25] <seb_kuzminsky> ok i get it :-)
[06:26] <seb_kuzminsky> i got a backtrace just now
[06:26] <seb_kuzminsky> i'll pastebin it
[06:26] <lifeless> seb_kuzminsky: (before you push the /loom/ as opposed to pushing a thread into svn or something similar)
[06:26] <lifeless> seb_kuzminsky: thanks
[06:27] <seb_kuzminsky> http://pastebin.ca/1210326
[06:28] <spiv> Peng_: I suspect that patch probably isn't as flexible enough yet; I'm guessing you'd like to be able do something like "make_app(..., logfile='/foo/bar')" ?
[06:28] <seb_kuzminsky> i tried to change the nick of a loomified branch
[06:28] <seb_kuzminsky> afterwards (now), show-loom shows no active thread, and it keeps leaving the lock around
[06:28] <markh> does bzr attempt to perform 'globbing' on its cmdline args on windows?  I'm surprised to find 'bzr revert foo*.py' not work...
[06:28] <lifeless> seb_kuzminsky: oh, put the nick back to the name of the thread you were on
[06:28] <spiv> Peng_: if you do get logging set up to your satisfaction, please mail the list with details of how you did it :)
[06:29] <lifeless> seb_kuzminsky: the nickname is managed by loom automatically when you switch threads (bzr up-thread, bzr down-thread, bzr switch)
[06:29] <lifeless> markh: yes, see cmd_add for example, for instance
[06:29] <seb_kuzminsky> indeed!  thanks!
[06:30] <igc> lifeless: usertest is upgraded now as requested
[06:30] <lifeless> igc: thanks :P
[06:30] <seb_kuzminsky> i'm gettin me all kinds of learning tonight :-)
[06:33] <seb_kuzminsky> thanks lifeless, see you later
[06:35] <markh> lifeless: revert, status and diff seem not to - is that a bug?
[06:36]  * beuno stabs beuno_
[06:36] <markh> dir
[06:36] <markh> heh
[06:38] <lifeless> markh: I'd say its a bug, yes
[06:41] <Peng_> spiv: I've got it set up, but not to my satisfaction. I just used bzrlib.trace.push_log_file(), so it doesn't show the date, time, PID or any sort of contextual information. (At least for the messages I've been able to get it to generate so far: warnings about a knit repo.)
[06:42] <spiv> Peng_: ah, crummy.
[06:42] <Peng_> Hmm. Using enable_default_logging would make it output that information, but it would also set up a stderr logger, which I don't want.
[06:44] <spiv> Yeah, the stderr handler doesn't sound like a good idea :)
[06:44] <markh> so, there is an existing bug that 'commit' doesn't glob on windows.  Should I just 'adopt' that bug and broaden it for all commands known to need that support added?
[06:45] <Peng_> I might just copy parts of enable_default_logging().
[06:45] <lifeless> markh: I don't like broadening bugs
[06:45] <markh> so add 4 new bugs all identical except for the specific command?
[06:45] <lifeless> markh: because it marks it harder to ever actually close it; unless you think there is a simple fix-for-all-commands
[06:46] <markh> well yeah, the same fix would be used for all, but possibly need to be applied for each commaand
[06:46] <spiv> markh: it's easier to combine separate bugs (by marking as dupes) than it is to separate an existing bug into multiple bugs.
[06:46] <lifeless> markh: what would be ideal is a simple way to test globbing-on-windows-on-commands, so we can tell if things regress etc
[06:46] <spiv> markh: so when in doubt it's probably best to default to filing multiple bugs.
[06:46] <markh> even easier to avoid it if possible, hence my question ;)
[06:46] <spiv> Well, true :)
[06:46] <spiv> Unless you count asking questions as hard work ;)
[06:47] <lifeless> markh: put it this way, if you're writing code to fix it for all commands you know of, why bother touching the bug :P
[06:47] <markh> :) less work than re-touching 4 bugs that are effectively dupes if that isn't what was wanted.  But as it is, I'll do it.
[06:47] <lifeless> markh: just wrte the code, tell the bug you have a branch, and bingo its done :)
[06:47] <markh> I'm not proposing to fix it ;)
[06:47] <markh> heh
[06:47] <markh> then we spend 5 weeks debating the style, remember ;)
[06:48] <lifeless> mmmm, I don't think we do. But YMMV
[06:49] <markh> the bug actually notes a fix was previously submitted but resubmission was requested multiple times, according to the bug anyway
[06:49] <Peng_> No, someone sends one "bb:tweak" suggesting the style be changed, and then everybody forgets about the branch for a few months until someone reminds them to check the BB queue.
[06:49]  * Peng_ ducks
[06:49] <markh> ditto for my "update -r" bug I must get back to
[06:50] <Peng_> markh: I think someone sent a patch for that. Was it you?
[06:50] <markh> "update -r" - yeah
[06:51] <markh> I picked up old work that I thought was quite close, so I merged it and updated it for 2 years worth of changes, but it turns out a number of other things still need doing, and I really can't justify spending any more personal time on it :(  I asked for help landing it in the bug...
[07:06] <vila> hi all !
[07:07] <vila> fullermd, ReachingFarr (actually he seems to be gone :-/): on that particular one (65 data rewind), I think spiv knows more than me
[07:09] <vila> I've never reproduced it so I don't know where to lookt at
[07:11] <Peng_> spiv: OK, I've got it set up to my satisfcation (as far as I can tell)
[07:43] <pysquared> Hi all.  Does anyone know if possible to do a partial checkout?  I have a big tree of related sub-projects, and usually only want to work on one or two, and do not want a complete working tree.
[07:44] <beuno> pysquared, you can't currently, no
[07:44] <pysquared> Shame
[07:45] <pysquared> Any plugins to do this that you know of?
[07:45] <pysquared> Is there a feature request for this (that I have not found yet), or shall I add one?
[07:45] <beuno> no, I don't think you can do that currently
[07:46] <beuno> feel free to add it
[07:48] <Peng_> I'm thinking about making a certain branch public, so I was just reading through the log to see if it's appropriate. One message includes a declaration of love for one of bzr's developers. Whoops.
[07:49] <beuno> that's very appropriate
[07:49] <pysquared> Ah, just found a note about it on jam's blog - http://jam-bazaar.blogspot.com/2007/10/bazaar-vs-subversion.html
[07:49] <pysquared> Should I file a feature request anyway?
[07:49] <beuno> pysquared, yeap, go for it
[07:52] <LarstiQ> if there isn't already one
[07:54] <pysquared> Ahah, I spent ages searching for something before.  Found this: http://bazaar-vcs.org/FilteredViews
[07:54] <pysquared> It was linked from http://www.infoq.com/articles/dvcs-guide
[07:54] <lifeless> night all
[07:55] <beuno> g'night lifeless
[07:55] <beuno> AFAIK filtered views still bring in the full repo
[07:55] <beuno> I may be wrong
[07:55] <beuno> igc is working on it
[07:55] <lifeless> they always will in the current designs
[07:56] <lifeless> anyhow, /gone
[08:08] <tvainika> jelmer: did you notice that debian experimental now has bzr-svn 0.4.13 which depends on bzr (<< 1.7~) so it cannot be installed with bzr 1.7 from debian experimental after your yesterday uploads?
[08:41] <beuno> mwhudson, I'm cleaning up bugs in LH: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/loggerhead/+bugs?search=Search&field.status=New&field.status=Incomplete&field.status=Confirmed&field.status=Triaged&field.status=In+Progress&field.status=Fix+Committed
[08:41] <beuno> the last two NEW have your name on it  :)
[09:10] <Peng_> spiv: There's a typo in your -Eallow_debug patch. It should be "sanitisation", not "santisation".
[09:11] <fullermd> That hardly sounds sanitized   :p
[09:11] <Peng_> Oh, my email client unfroze now.
[09:11] <spiv> Peng_: d'oh, thanks.
[09:12] <Peng_> :)
[09:14] <spiv> vila: how's your patch to remove SmartClientMedium from RemoteTransport's set of base classes doing?
[09:15] <vila> waiting review :)
[09:15] <spiv> vila: My -Dhpss patch on the list reminded me just how many SmartClientMedium instances we're currently creating, and it's a bit nuts...
[09:15] <spiv> Hmm, I don't see it in my bundle buggy queue.
[09:16] <vila> my fault wrong subject it appears
[09:16] <vila> it's part of the python-2.6 compatibility RFC
[09:17] <vila> the patch includes caching the medium created so that should address your concern
[09:17] <vila> The controversial bit is that I use weakref to avoid a circular dependency
[09:18] <spiv> Huh, interesting.
[09:18] <spiv> What's wrong with a circular reference?
[09:19] <spiv> Because the medium has a __del__ it causes uncollectable cycles?
[09:19] <vila> no more gc ?
[09:19] <vila> __del__ will never be called if the ref never reach zero, the medium references the transport
[09:20] <vila> and is an attribute of the transport
[09:21] <vila> so I made the transport attribute a weak ref in the medium
[09:21] <vila> all of the above applies to SmartClientHTTPMedium only of course
[09:21] <spiv> I suspect it's possible to find a more elegant solution.
[09:21] <spiv> But I don't think it's worth wasting the effort to find it :)
[09:22] <spiv> Thanks for the update.
[09:22]  * spiv goes swimming
[09:22] <spiv> (idea: maybe the HTTP transport and HTTP medium could share a reference to an HTTP channel, rather than to each other?)
[09:23] <vila> spiv: the root problem is that both the transport and the medium have a 'base' attribute with isn't related to the http channel
[09:24] <vila> so while the http 'channel' can be shared between transport/medium pairs, the base must be shared by each pair
[09:25] <vila> and this sounds is a bit complicated for what we want to achieve
[09:25] <vila> I don't have problems with weakref per se but I'm not sure this is view shared by everyone
[09:27] <vila> spib: Anyway, I'd like to rework my python-2.6 branch into a loom so I can more easily extract that smart medium part if you think it's worth merging sooner
[09:27] <vila> spiv (grr): Anyway, I'd like to rework my python-2.6 branch into a loom so I can more easily extract that smart medium part if you think it's worth merging sooner
[09:40] <poolie> vila, hi
[09:40] <poolie> how are you going?
[10:46] <strk> so, I have these two branches on two machines being both parented to the online one
[10:47] <strk> how can I avoid a double network activity to bring them both in sync with the online one ?
[10:47] <strk> ie: can I have hostA pull from hostB on a case-by-case basis ?
[10:48] <strk> case-by-case means: sometime I want hostB to pull from hostA
[10:54] <Peng_> strk: I guess you could keep a copy of the parent on one of the machines, then have the other pull from it.
[11:17] <jonnydee> hi, i need help: "bzr revert" returns 'bzr: ERROR: Could not acquire lock "D:/duscher/docs/ProjektM/dev/.bzr/checkout/dirstate"'
[11:17] <jonnydee> I am using bzr.dev on windows
[11:17] <jonnydee> break-lock does not help
[11:21] <jonnydee> re-checkingout the branch produces the same error in the new branch
[11:31] <jonnydee> does anyone have a clue how to recover from this state? I have a presentation in 2 hours and I would like to be able to revert...
[11:39] <Peng_> jonnydee: Sorry, but I don't know. My only two ideas are 1.) Are you using the most recent version of bzr?, and 2.) did something get marked read-only?
[11:53] <poolie> night all
[11:53] <poolie> jonnydee: probably there is still a bzr process running somewhere
[11:53] <poolie> kill it off and you should be ok
[11:53] <poolie> if all else fails :-( reboot
[11:54] <poolie> hth
[14:04] <pysquare1> Hello.  Is there a way to reconfigure a shared repository to have the --no-trees option?
[14:06] <spiv> pysquare1: touch .bzr/repository/no-working-trees
[14:06] <spiv> I don't think there's a nice way to do it with the 'bzr' command line, although there ought to be.
[14:08] <pysquare1> Thanks spiv, I just did; bzr init-repo t1; bzr init-repo --no-trees t2; diff -r t1 t2; and got "Only in t2/.bzr/repository: no-working-trees" -- cool.
[14:32] <_dereine> hi, are there any private bazaar hosting services?
[14:32] <LeoNerd> Anything with a webserver I should think
[14:32] <LeoNerd> You don't need a special server.. anything you can (s)ftp to and http from is sufficient
[15:29] <Lo-lan-do> Hi all
[15:29] <Lo-lan-do> I apologise in advance for being rude, but is there work done on performance these days?
[15:29] <Lo-lan-do> Specifically, start-up time?
[15:30] <james_w> hey Lo-lan-do
[15:30] <james_w> there was a discussion on the list just recently about that very topic, discussing where and how to reduce start-up time
[15:30] <Lo-lan-do> Goody :-)
[15:31] <Lo-lan-do> Has it been suggested that maybe not all of bzr needs to be loaded and initialized for each invocation?
[15:32] <Lo-lan-do> I understand lots of code has to be loaded for complex operations, but maybe "bzr info" could do without it (and come below 2 seconds)...
[15:34] <Lo-lan-do> I have a large root+lots of feature branches+integration branch setup, with a script to merge all feature branches back into the integration branch, and it seems like a shame to spend so much time waiting for bzr nick to answer.
[15:34] <siretart> Lo-lan-do: if that script is in python, you could use bzrlib directly
[15:35] <Lo-lan-do> It's shell so far.
[15:35] <Lo-lan-do> Maybe "bzr shell" could help?
[15:38] <siretart> maybe, but I'm not familiar with 'bzr shell'
[15:39] <siretart> I meant when your script needs to iterate over a lot of branches, it might make sense to do that in python with bzrlib directly to avoid loading bzrlib for every branch but just once at startup of that script
[15:39] <Lo-lan-do> Yes, and I think bzr shell does approximately that.
[15:40] <Lo-lan-do> Except it behaves as a shell, with extra (or overridden) commands such as status, merge, cat, info, nick and so on.
[15:40] <siretart> is your script for package maintenance?
[15:40] <Lo-lan-do> More or less.  I use it to prepare packages of patched apps for clients.
[15:41] <siretart> hm. in that case, you could perhaps add some more magic into the bzr-builddeb plugin
[15:41] <Lo-lan-do> I'd rather keep it generic.
[15:42] <Lo-lan-do> I mean, the patches I do are not Debian-related, they just happen to be on source trees that will eventually be turned into debs.
[15:43] <thrope> is there any documentation for bzr-svn? I have having trouble finding anything except the faw
[15:47] <thrope> also is there any way to get a graphical log like hg glog? (I am just trying out dvcs and found that quite helpful)
[15:47] <Lo-lan-do> Besides, I would honestly prefer keeping my shell script and have it run faster :-)
[15:47] <Lo-lan-do> thrope: bzr viz, in the gtk plugin
[15:48] <Lo-lan-do> As for bzr-svn, it's supposed to be "transparent"
[15:48] <thrope> Lo-lan-do: ah - how to i 'activate' the plugin (I installed it but get error with bzr viz)
[15:48] <thrope> Lo-lan-do: for bzr-svn it is owkring ok but I expect bzr push to update the svn repository but it said no location known
[15:49] <bob2> bzr push svn//url
[15:49] <thrope> oh - it won't store it anywhere?
[15:49] <bob2> push doesn't default the url the branch was branched from
[15:49] <bob2> it will once you specify it once
[15:49] <thrope> oh
[15:49] <thrope> right
[15:49] <bob2> (this is a debated feature)
[15:49] <Lo-lan-do> I use a checkout (bound branch) for that.
[15:50] <Lo-lan-do> But that's nothing to do with svn :-)
[15:50] <thrope> any idea what this means? http://pastebin.com/m646013ae
[15:51] <thrope> and how can I activate bzr viz?
[15:52] <bob2> you don't activate plugins
[15:52] <bob2> just install them
[15:53] <bob2> (ie put or symlink the dir into ~/.bazaar/plugins)
[15:54] <thrope> ah - i thought it was in bzrtools package but its in bzr-gtk... I'm on a mac so it's kind of a pain to install all of gtk - is there no console tool?
[15:55] <thrope> re: the error - when I try and rebase it says "no revisions to rebase"
[15:56] <bob2> did you find the bz-svn page on the wiki?
[15:56] <thrope> bob2: yes but it doesn't have much info - just about installation
[15:58] <awilkins> bzr-curses might be welcomed by some, I suppose
[15:59] <awilkins> How about qbzr, thrope?
[15:59] <awilkins> Is Qt4 hard to get on Mac?
[15:59] <awilkins> qlog is arguably much nicer than viz
[15:59] <thrope> its easy enough to get stuff through macports - it just takes ages to compile
[16:00] <Verterok> heya
[16:00] <awilkins> Isn't there a mpkg for qt though ?
[16:00]  * awilkins has no mac
[16:00] <Verterok> thrope: there is no need to compile Qt4
[16:01] <thrope> anyway it doesn't really matter if I can't use it with svn - I'm just playing to try it out but can't seem to commit anyc hanges made in bazaar to a svn repo
[16:02] <thrope> no one has any idea what that error means?
[16:02] <awilkins> jelmer is the expert
[16:03] <thrope> i just made a toy repo for testing - checked out in bazaar, made some changes, meanwhile made some changes in svn and commited - and now I'm stuck
[16:04] <awilkins> I think it's probably the "toy" nature of the repo - is all the content in the root?
[16:04] <awilkins> I think it works best with a project/trunk;tags;branches layout
[16:04] <thrope> yeah
[16:04] <thrope> all content in root
[16:06] <Verterok> thrope: did you tried with dpush?
[16:06] <thrope> no - what is dpush
[16:06] <thrope> rats i just deleted the dir to try with trunk/tags/branch etc
[16:07]  * Verterok is not an bzr-svn expert :)
[16:07] <Verterok> thrope: a command provided by vzr-svn
[16:07] <Verterok> bzr-svn
[16:09] <quicksilver> Would be nice if you could re-merge into an uncommited merge
[16:09] <quicksilver> (to merge another revision)
[16:11] <thrope> seemed to work now - don't know what went wrong the first time
[16:11] <thrope> maybe it was being the root of the repo
[18:06] <seb_kuzminsky> what did i just do to my svn repo...
[18:06] <seb_kuzminsky> i'm using bzr, bzr-svn, and loom, all on intrepid
[18:06] <seb_kuzminsky> i've branched a big svn repo into a local bzr repo
[18:07] <seb_kuzminsky> i loomified my local branch and hacked for a while
[18:07] <seb_kuzminsky> meanwhile others were committing to the svn repo
[18:07] <seb_kuzminsky> finally i went down to my bottom thread and ran bzr pull to get their commits
[18:08] <seb_kuzminsky> then i went up on thread, and it showed all their commits as M - modified files (ie, it looks like a merge, not a pull)
[18:08] <seb_kuzminsky> i committed in the next-to-bottom thread and pushed....
[18:08] <rockstar> seb_kuzminsky, yea, so you'll have to merge those into your thread.
[18:09] <seb_kuzminsky> now when i look at the svn repo (with the svn program, not bzr), it looks like all the other peoples' commits are gone, and instead is the merge i did in my thread...
[18:10] <seb_kuzminsky> all their commits replaced by one commit of mine, with the log message "merge"...
[18:15] <seb_kuzminsky> svn thinks /trunk got replaced (svn log shows "R /trunk") at the place where my first thread-commit went in
[18:18] <seb_kuzminsky> guess i'll open a bug report
[19:22] <bpierre> hi
[22:26] <lifeless> jelmer: there is a thread on list you should read :P - 'lost commits in our repo' (its bzr-svn w/ bzr-loom)
[22:30] <seb_kuzminsky> i'm the OP on that thread, i'm here and i can answer questions about the problem for the next few minutes before i have to leave
[22:31] <seb_kuzminsky> lifeless: you didnt think you were rid of me did you :-P
[22:36] <lifeless> seb_kuzminsky: I hoped not :>
[22:36] <lifeless> jam: btw the pyrex iter_changes merge blocks the other too
[22:36] <lifeless> s/too/two/
[22:36] <lifeless> jam: do you want to review the __next__, or would you rather I nag someone to review that part?
[22:38] <jam> lifeless: yeah, I know that. I just got to the easy ones. My son has an ear infection so I got little sleep and I'm maybe 50% time working today
[22:38] <jam> depends when he sleeps
[22:38] <jam> I do have it on my TODO
[22:38] <lifeless> jam: thanks; I'm not meaning to pressure, just didn't want to be nagged about the approved ones either :P
[22:40] <jam> spiv: if you are interested, my personal vote on "thing to do next" is "bzr up" over bzr+ssh. Even when it is a no-op it takes like 10s here to Launchpad.
[22:40] <jam> which is a bit of a pain for the packaging. It could just be LP handshaking being slow
[22:47] <jam> uh-oh.... something we did recently broke "bzr revert" on win32
[22:47] <jam> I now *always* get "Could not acquire lock"
[22:48] <jam> And I can't reallly revert to find out when that happened :)
[22:49] <AfC> jam: not to worry. There's always reformatting the drive... :)
[22:49] <jam> AfC: I have about 10 copies of bzr on this machine, I can just switch :)
[22:50] <jam> not to mention "bzr branch" still works
[22:50] <jam> just odd
[22:51] <jam> ok, weird. Doing plain "bzr revert" fails, but "bzr revert -r -1" works, at least that gives me somewhere to point to
[22:54] <lifeless> jam: bet you its taking out a lock earlier
[22:54] <jam> luks: It seems to be your fault :)
[22:54] <jam> lifeless: yeah, rev 3733: fix bzr st -rbranch:path-to-branch (Lukas Lalinsky)
[22:55] <spm> is there a way to do a 'bzr cp'? Like 'bzr mv', but end up with two files that at some point in history were one?
[22:56] <lifeless> spm: 'bzr branch'
[22:56] <jam> lifeless: the problem is that "bzr revert" no args, is not using "tree.basis_tree()" and probably that is a DirStateRevisionTree, which is then getting ".lock_read()"
[22:56] <lifeless> spm: (no, its a desired feature, see under TIME)
[22:56] <jam> before the actual working tree is getting .lock_write()
[22:57] <spm> lifeless: ta (again :-) ). isn't a major issue, but would have been a nice touch of sugar.
[23:08] <AfC> spm: I ran into wanting that not too long ago myself.
[23:25] <jam> lifeless: best help ever: http://docs.python.org/dist/module-distutils.extension.html
[23:25] <jam> So much information there, I don't know what to do :)
[23:31] <lifeless> jam: :>
[23:31] <lifeless> jam: what are you working on?
[23:37] <abadger1999> jam: If you're not being sarcastic, that would make that the only distutils page that's helpful :-)
[23:38]  * abadger1999 is migrating all his code to paver
[23:41] <jam> abadger1999: considering it is a single line of documentation, I'm probably being sarcastic :)
[23:41] <jam> lifeless: I'm trying to review your patch, and I figured getting it *compiling* on win32 might be a good first step
[23:42] <AfC> Compile-driven development. It's the latest vogue in testing.
[23:42] <abadger1999> heh.  That figures
[23:43] <lifeless> jam: sweet
[23:44] <jam> AfC: there are some that feel if your code is statically typed enough, compiling *is* correctness :)
[23:44] <lifeless> they are wrong :P
[23:45] <jam> typedef one int; typedef two int; ...
[23:45] <jam> :)
[23:47] <poolie> hello all
[23:48] <jam> Isn't  Verterok == Guillermo Gonzales?
[23:48] <jam> I'm trying to answer https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/bzr/+question/46326
[23:48] <lifeless> jam: yes
[23:48] <jam> And ISTR that it was supposed to be fixed in xmloutput
[23:48] <jam> poolie: morning


[09:14] <lifeless> wgrant: haskell lp auth working
[09:15] <lifeless> wgrant: next release of authenticate-oauth will be usable out of the box
[09:16] <wgrant> lifeless: Just needed the body -> header tweak?
[09:17] <lifeless> yeah and just on +access-token
[09:17] <wgrant> Yep.
[09:17] <lifeless> https://plus.google.com/+RobertCollins/posts/JByEJs1dJJv
[09:17] <wgrant> Haskell hasn't melted your mind yet?
[09:17] <lifeless> nope
[09:18] <lifeless> there's some initial get-to-grips on how monads compose to burn through
[09:18] <lifeless> I nabbed a little of erikd's time to help be bootstrap on that
[09:18] <wgrant> :)
[09:18] <lifeless> and now I'm terrorising ghc happily
[09:19] <lifeless> I'm not superproductive yet
[09:50] <lifeless> I don't think I'm going to tackle wadl processing at this sstage though :)
[09:53] <mwhudson> heh, my first (and only) ghc bug report was nearly 15 years ago: http://code.haskell.org/~dons/haskell-1990-2000/msg06263.html
[09:54] <lifeless> mwhudson: what was your 'real' thing ?
[09:55] <mwhudson> lifeless: undergraduate computational maths project
[09:56] <mwhudson> modular arithmetic iirc
[09:56] <mwhudson> hm, i still had the code a while ago
[09:58] <mwhudson> there were lectures on pascal for people who hadn't programmed before
[09:58] <mwhudson> but i implemented my projects in common lisp, python, haskell and bash...
[09:59] <cjwatson> we had lectures on ML, on the basis that that way nobody knew WTF they were doing even if they'd been self-taught programmers for >10y
[09:59] <cjwatson> (explicitly so!)
[09:59] <mwhudson> cjwatson: a pretty sound approach!
[10:00] <mwhudson> oh heh, iirc the haskell was cracking rsa
[10:00] <mwhudson> for super exciting key lengths like 32 bits
[10:01] <cjwatson> we had an end-of-first-term assignment to decrypt RSA with some tiny key length using pencil and paper
[10:01] <cjwatson> when deciphered, the plaintext was "ONLY EIGHT MORE TERMS"
[10:01] <lifeless> nice!
[10:07] <mwhudson> :)
[10:07]  * mwhudson zzz
[16:43] <cjwatson> blr: OK, I finally have your turnip charm deploying with the local provider now that I've figured out WTF was up with HTTP proxies.
[16:45] <cjwatson> blr: I had to apply http://paste.ubuntu.com/10207023/ - does that make sense?  check-rev isn't a command, I don't believe you can "juju set turnip" before you "juju deploy", and it doesn't look like the charm takes a revision config option anyway
[16:45] <cjwatson> (if that makes sense, I'll send an MP, but with doc updates as well)
[16:54] <cjwatson> blr: I probably can't sanely hook it up to a local LP until we make turnipserver much less hacky and actually driven by the juju config, though
[16:56] <cjwatson> blr: would it make more sense perhaps, rather than running turnipserver, to (write and?) run separate processes for each element of the stack?  turnipserver is a reasonable stopgap when developing, but this would fit better with longer-term scalability needs
[18:36] <cjwatson> wgrant: https://code.launchpad.net/~cjwatson/launchpad/git-basic-model/+merge/248976, https://code.launchpad.net/~cjwatson/turnip/auto-create-repository/+merge/249058, and https://code.launchpad.net/~cjwatson/launchpad/git-namespace/+merge/248995 should all be ready for re-review now.
[18:47] <cjwatson> and I think that's a reasonable point to declare EOW
[21:34] <blr> cjwatson: I think we want to be careful there, CI ran into difficulties coupling their code to juju.
[21:35] <blr> cjwatson: ah quite right, an error in the makefile which I think is corrected in one of the more recent revisions of the charm
[21:39] <blr> cjwatson: and yes, I think we're going to want to run the processs independently, absolutely.
[21:39] <blr> cjwatson: how revisions are managed still needs work, might return to that after I have the block storage sorted.
[21:40] <blr> regarding the first point, I think it would really hinder development to have to rely on juju in any way in development.
[21:42] <blr> ugh, the word 'development' is a bit overloaded, but hopefully that makes sense.
[23:56] <cjwatson> blr: I'm definitely not suggesting coupling development of turnip itself to juju - what did you read as suggesting that?


 Libertine update: gThumb is now working way better since the "flatten all windows" quick fix made it to RC channel - for those looking for an alternative gallery app that has a number of useful photo editing functions
[01:14] <ubptgbot> Kenny Pavan was added by: Kenny Pavan
[01:25] <ubptgbot> <Kenny P> Hello There! … Total newb here and I'm excited to try Ubuntu Touch for the first time. I've just picked up a OnePlus One, but I'm having an issue with the install. Anyone around that I can ping with a few questions to help with install? I'm using the latest ubports installer on Ubuntu 18.04 and it appears to be stuck saying "Please reboot
[01:25] <ubptgbot>  to bootloader". The phone appears to be in Bootloader mode with the text "Fastboot Mode" on the screen while connected to computer; however, it's been here stuck for around 30 minutes, and I've tried several times. I've done some duckduckgoing, but couldn't find a straight forward solution for a first timer like myself. Anyone have any suggestions
[01:25] <ubptgbot>  or resources I can follow for next steps?  Thanks in advance!
 Why yes! we have a room dedicated.
[01:26] <ubptgbot> <Kenny P> Wonderful! Sorry if this is the wrong room :-/
 take a minute and go through this: … https://ubports.com/meet-the-community
 No worries. It's not
 and welcome!
[01:30] <ubptgbot> <Kenny P> Thank you for the pointer @wayneoutthere. Sliding over to the UB Welcome & Install group.
 enjoy the slide!
[08:43] <ubptgbot> <mark alexa> Is file sharing via bluetooth working for anyone here on Nexus 5 ?
 There is an App in the Openstore named ”Bluetooth File Transfer“, but I have newer used this App
 *never
 @mark alexa [Is file sharing via bluetooth working for anyone here on Nexus 5 ?], I've used the app that Julius mentioned and it works fine.
[09:31] <ubptgbot> <mark alexa> @imraniqbal [I've used the app that Julius mentioned and it works fine.], I'm gonna give it a try. Cheers.
 @mark alexa [I'm gonna give it a try. Cheers.], Be aware that the files get transferred to this folder: … * `/home/phablet/.cache/ubtd.fourloop2002/`
 That's if you're using this app: https://open-store.io/app/ubtd.fourloop2002.
 (Sticker, 512x512) https://irc.ubports.com/jWRghE9L.webp
 (Sticker, 512x512) https://irc.ubports.com/m3jGUPze.webp
[10:35] <ubptgbot> <mark alexa> @imraniqbal [Be aware that the files get transferred to this folder: … * /home/phablet/.cache/ …], Works like a magic !
 @mark alexa [Works like a magic !], Excellent, glad it worked out for you.
[11:19] <ubptgbot> <mark alexa> @imraniqbal [Excellent, glad it worked out for you.], Will be absolutely awesome when making calls through bluetooth headset will work as well (reliably) asof now it works on and off. As of now you can listen to music only but every progress counts.
 In https://devices.ubuntu-touch.io/ "selfies rotated by 180°" is no more true
 And random reboots are very rare
 [Edit] And random reboots are very rare (for me at least)
 @Aury88 [<reply to media>], nice sticker! haha
 @Aury88 [<reply to media>], Hm? :3
 @Aury88 [<reply to media>], [Edit] Hm? Man the day teleports can send stickers
 @Aury88 [<reply to media>], [Edit] Hm? :3 what makes creepy is that yumi has no pupils, so uh- man the day teleports can send stickers
[13:42] <ubptgbot> solevizhe was added by: solevizhe
 @Fuseteam [Hm? :3 what makes creepy is that yumi has no pupils, so uh- man the day teleport …], sorry but I find more creepy the version with pupils😂
 @Aury88 [sorry but I find more creepy the version with pupils😂], 😂😂😂
 I was actually searching for an example that showcases what i mean but was side tracked 😂😂😂
[14:59] <ubptgbot> Unriell was added by: Unriell
 (Photo, 1024x670) https://irc.ubports.com/SjK3TQr1.png
 There we go :p
 will the bq x2 ever be compatible?
 Untill someone ports it no
 That someone can even be you my friend
 [Edit] Untill someone ports it, no
 [Edit] That someone can even be you, my friend
 I will take a look and if in case I can no longer carry out the project?
 If you publish what you have someone can always pick it up
 Okay thank you
 [Edit] If you publish what you have; someone, somewhere, can always pick it up
 Its not super hard to get a port started, just takes some patience and problem solving skills
[17:32] <ubptgbot> elagost was added by: elagost
 Hello all. I'd like to buy a device for Ubuntu Touch. I don't currently have any of the supported devices on the promoted page, and since I'm in the US I can't really get a fairphone. Would the Nexus 5 or Oneplus One be a better choice?
 yes. any of the devices you'd need to buy second hand anyway. nexus 5 is better if you want to use external display, as oneplus doesn't have wired display support.
 Thanks. Reading  up on it, looks like the Oneplus has better specs/battery but does that really matter?
 the extra ram can help depending on what you want to do, but the device is also a fair bit larger physically than nexus 5 is
 they both have a few known issues at the moment, so choosing between the two, depends on what you want to do with the device and how you feel about the issues affecting them currently
 or also you could just get both and then you can use one as a phone and other for testing/development stuff :P
 I don't do much - mostly messaging/calls, podcast listening, and USB tethering to laptops for anything heavier.
 Can you change the DNS Server of your wifi connection?
 Not currently, is there issue open for that?
 @LEOLEOSP [Can you change the DNS Server of your wifi connection?], from CLI yes, but there's no static network config UI yet, iirc
 Any place I could check to look at the issues effecting them to compare? I'd only like to get one to start with.
 Okay thanks 👍
 The ubuntu touch repo on github is a good place to start
 @elagost [Any place I could check to look at the issues effecting them to compare? I'd onl …], https://github.com/ubports/ubuntu-touch/issues
 ^^ that one
 @Fuseteam [Not currently, is there issue open for that?], yes, there's an open issue for static config of network
 @LEOLEOSP [Okay thanks 👍], see documentation for `nm-cli` for how to tweak the connection settings from terminal
 @dohbee [https://github.com/ubports/ubuntu-touch/issues], Thanks!
 @dohbee [yes, there's an open issue for static config of network], Cool what's its number :p
 @Fuseteam [Cool what's its number :p], the one that github gives back when you search and find the right one :P
 @dohbee [the one that github gives back when you search and find the right one :P], Github search on mobile is borked :p
 @elagost [Thanks. Reading  up on it, looks like the Oneplus has better specs/battery but d …], The OnePlus One has the definite advantages over the Nexus 5 of a faster cpu, more RAM, and better battery life.  The OnePlus One gives you a larger display, while the Nexus 5 fits easier for single handed use - which one of those is better i
[18:15] <ubptgbot> s a matter of personal preference.  The OnePlus One can send to an external display wirelessly via a Microsoft Wireless Display Adapter, where as the Nexus 5 can send to external display via a Slimport cable.  The OnePlus One has a 13 megapixel camera - but the zoom and flash currently do not work on it for Ubuntu Touch and a fix for this is unlike
[18:15] <ubptgbot> ly to come soon.  The Nexus has an 8 megapixel camera with working flash and zoom - but video playback on it is very buggy on it right now.
 @elagost [Hello all. I'd like to buy a device for Ubuntu Touch. I don't currently have any …], Another option to consider is the Meizu Pro 5 - which offers the best hardware specs of any of the current UT supported devices - but only gets up to 3G/HSPA in the USA (in Europe you are likely to be able to get 4G for it though)
 @TotalSonic [Another option to consider is the Meizu Pro 5 - which offers the best hardware s …], And its hard to get
 @Fuseteam [And its hard to get], there are some for a reasonable price here from a seller that has been verified to have shipped to a couple of UT users - but these require additional work to flash them to UT as they are not official Ubuntu versions.  I have a 4gb RAM / 64gb storage model myself that works great with UT on latest RC re
[18:25] <ubptgbot> lease - it is my daily driver.  … https://www.ebay.com/itm/90-new-Meizu-PRO-5-64GB-support-Ubuntu-4GB-RAM-Unlocked-DualSIM-NFC-FastCharge/273911840744?
 @Fuseteam [And its hard to get], [Edit] there are some for a reasonable price here from a seller that has been verified to have shipped to a couple of UT users - but these require additional work to flash them to UT as they are not official Ubuntu versions and they come with FlyMe Android on them.  I have a 4gb RAM / 64gb storage model
[18:26] <ubptgbot>  myself that works great with UT on latest RC release - it is my daily driver.  … https://www.ebay.com/itm/90-new-Meizu-PRO-5-64GB-support-Ubuntu-4GB-RAM-Unlocked-DualSIM-NFC-FastCharge/273911840744?
 Hmm someone could buy flash and sell those
 and it will likely never be fully supported, because it has some differences from the Ubuntu Edition pro 5, and i think the device/vendor trees were never published?
 @dohbee [and it will likely never be fully supported, because it has some differences fro …], Currently everything works on it with a few extra terminal commands - including front facing "home" button / finger print reader.  GPS has been more reliable with it than I ever got with my OnePlus One as well.  Saying this as someone with dir
[18:32] <ubptgbot> ect experience with both 3gb/32gb Ubuntu edition and the 4gb/64gb FlyMe version.
 modifying the rootfs is hardly as simple as "a few terminal commands"
 @dohbee [modifying the rootfs is hardly as simple as "a few terminal commands"], yet that is all it took me.
 @dohbee [modifying the rootfs is hardly as simple as "a few terminal commands"], [Edit] Yet that is all it took me in order to update the modem and get the fingerprint reader working.  I did purchase my Meizu Pro 5 with UT already flashed on it though
 @TotalSonic [Yet that is all it took me in order to update the modem and get the fingerprint …], but the statement oversimplifies the actions being done by those commands, and implies the support is trivial to include by default, when you know it is not.
 @Fuseteam [Hmm someone could buy flash and sell those], Hmm steven could do it xD
 @dohbee [but the statement oversimplifies the actions being done by those commands, and i …], Dunno - if someone wants to flash it and update it there are currently very good instructions readily available on the UT forum - and again are not hard at all for someone with a modicum of experience with Linux terminals to do.
 fingerprint reader isn't currently supported on either version of pro 5, either
 @dohbee [fingerprint reader isn't currently supported on either version of pro 5, either], yet - it is easy to get working - and works great
 Will it get broken by future versions of UT?  Possibly.  But by that time I expect even more up to date options with better hardware specs to be available for UT./
 @TotalSonic [Dunno - if someone wants to flash it and update it there are currently very good …], yes, there are, and it may be acceptable for them. but the way you stated it implies a level of support which is not there. and when someone buys a device based on this pre-conceived notion of "ease" due to your statements, and have problems,
[18:38] <ubptgbot> it can create annoying scenarios
 @dohbee [yes, there are, and it may be acceptable for them. but the way you stated it imp …], But those scenarios are not currently existing.  But you are very correct that people should be aware that these are currently "community" devices and not "official UBports" ones.
 @TotalSonic [Will it get broken by future versions of UT?  Possibly.  But by that time I expe …], none with working fingerprint readers, and no, they can't be enabled with a few terminal commands
 @dohbee [none with working fingerprint readers, and no, they can't be enabled with a few …], so - IF someone actually wants to run UT with a fingerprint reader unlocking - then they should get a Meizu Pro 5 ;)
 @TotalSonic [so - IF someone actually wants to run UT with a fingerprint reader unlocking - t …], they should not use UT currently, really, if what they want is decent biometric support
 @dohbee [they should not use UT currently, really, if what they want is decent biometric …], Not really - I already have it on my UT daily driver.
 and fwiw, i don't take issue that you did that and it works for you, or your sharing the details of how it was done; only that i think you should take more care in choosing the words when you make such suggesetions, as the words you chose this time implies  a level of simplicity and support that does not exist
 @TotalSonic [Not really - I already have it on my UT daily driver.], that's great for you, but if one is looking to buy a phone based on the requirement that they must have working fingerprint, then my suggestion must be to not use UT. because we cannot guarantee it won't get broken
 you got it working for you now with a little hacking, but it is not currently supported, and the hack that got it working could break in the future
 @dohbee [and fwiw, i don't take issue that you did that and it works for you, or your sha …], yup - anyone that wants to flash from FlyMe and/or update the modem firmware, or get their finger print reader working  - should absolutely make sure they are comfortable following the instructions detailed here - an be aware that there is pot
[18:47] <ubptgbot> ential for bricking their device in attempting these.  https://forums.ubports.com/topic/2755/meizu-pro-5-flyme-os-to-ubuntu-touch-modem-update-fingerprint-function
 Untill it can be upstreamed such that it's no longer neccesary to hack
 Although I will say - if you already have UT installed on your Meizu Pro 5 it is pretty darn easy to update the modem firmaware and get the finger print reader working.
 @Fuseteam [Untill it can be upstreamed such that it's no longer neccesary to hack], you are welcome to try to create an open source solution to get fingerprint working. the proprietary binary blob implementation cannot be "upstreamed" as such
 @TotalSonic [Although I will say - if you already have UT installed on your Meizu Pro 5 it is …], Haha and so the circle starts anew
 @dohbee [you are welcome to try to create an open source solution to get fingerprint work …], Yep but steven is also welcome to try as is anyone else with a meizu pro 5
 I'm already trying to upstream flick :p
 @TotalSonic [Although I will say - if you already have UT installed on your Meizu Pro 5 it is …], well, let me put it this way. to me, writing c++ is easy, but if kept saying it was so, and you kept failing to write c++ yourself, obviously you might feel the community has some issues with how things are presented. this same concept also ap
[18:52] <ubptgbot> plies to modifying the system image
 @Fuseteam [Haha and so the circle starts anew], I've noticed that it seems Rodney and I have different taste and approaches as far as these things goes.  But I am indeed very sympathetic to his position as someone deeply involved in Official UBports support - for which reasonable disclaimers and warnings regarding trying to "color outs
[18:52] <ubptgbot> ide the lines" makes a lot of sense.
 Yep xD
 @Fuseteam [Yep but steven is also welcome to try as is anyone else with a meizu pro 5], i didn't say they weren't free to do so if they wish. i'm simply saying that how "easy" it is, is very subjective, and presenting it as such is problematic
 @dohbee [i didn't say they weren't free to do so if they wish. i'm simply saying that how …], 👍
 I agree with ya both :p
[19:38] <ubptgbot> <Shikhar Khandelwal> https://youtu.be/X3rbWIbASKM
 spam above @dohbee
 👀
 Shikhar this group is about https://ubports.com and https://ubuntu-touch.io not for posting random youtube videos. I've deleted your post because it's off topic. If you post further, they may be reported as spam and result in you being banned from this group and possibly Telegram as well. Thanks.
 Hello, no one is working on anbox for nexus 7?
 Anbox isnt really a priority overall, you can certainly volunteer to work on it
[22:49] <ubptgbot> Zoe Moore was added by: Zoe Moore


[10:09] <alan_g> alf_: if a test core dumps is the core preserved somewhere we can get at it?
[10:14] <alf_> alan_g: Which run is this for?
[10:15] <alan_g> alf_: the most recent is https://mir-jenkins.ubuntu.com/job/device-runtests-mir/device_type=krillin/240/consoleFull
[10:18] <alf_> alan_g: we are pulling the crash files from the device, but we are not archiving them. We would need to change the device-runtests-mir job to archive 'results/**' or similar
[10:18] <alf_> alan_g: (archiving is a 'post-build' action)
[10:19] <alan_g> alf_: not urgent but might be a useful addition to the backlog.
[10:20] <alf_> alan_g: let me add quickly and you can retrigger a device-runtests-mir job
[10:20] <alan_g> I've found two intermittent failure modes in the smoke tests to investigate. That's the more common one, but I'll try to reproduce locally.
[10:25] <alf_> alan_g: I have added a post build action to archive results (including the crash files) our test runner scripts pull from the phone. Let me know if it gets the files you need..
[10:26] <alan_g> Where will I find them?
[10:31] <alf_> alan_g: you will need to trigger a new device-runtests-mir run, the results will be archived as artifacts accesible through the build page (https://mir-jenkins.ubuntu.com/job/device-runtests-mir/NNN/device_type=krillin/)
[10:31] <alf_> accessible
[10:33] <alan_g> thanks. (I guess it is good that the smoke tests are detecting smoke.)


[08:11] <dpm> good morning all
[08:12] <sagaci> hi
[08:16] <dpm> hey :)
[08:39] <andrejz> morning from me too :)
[09:54] <kelemengabor> good morning
[09:55] <kelemengabor> dpm: looks like we will hold the translation calls on Wednesdays: http://whenisgood.net/m53be8k/results/sg8tge
[09:57] <dpm> kelemengabor, ok, cool, we've got a winner. Let's do Wed 16:00 UTC
[09:58] <kelemengabor> I'll write a mail about it
[10:00] <dpm> thanks kelemengabor \o/
[10:14] <kelemengabor> dpm: I started to add content to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/Meetings/Next - any comment? :)
[10:22] <dpm> kelemengabor, looks good, thanks, just added an agenda item myself
[10:47] <dpm> kelemengabor, you did a translation sprint and you didn't say anything? There you go -> http://www.facebook.com/ubuntu.translators :-)
[10:48] <kelemengabor> :D
[10:48] <kelemengabor> well, it was a very tiny sprint :(
[10:54] <kelemengabor> only about 9 people came, and some stayed only for a short time... there were two IRL venues and online presence, I expected more
[10:59] <dpm> you can do a lot with 9 people
[11:00] <dpm> kelemengabor, next time let me know and we'll publish the announcement on the translators Facebook/g+ pages and the tweeter/identi.ca feeds, which should help you getting more visibility
[11:01] <dpm> in any case, good work!
[11:03] <kelemengabor> dpm: it was submitted to the team ML, to the Hungarian inter-project ML, ubuntu.hu, kde.hu - even on hup.hu, which is the most visible OS site
[11:03] <kelemengabor> so I guess every possible contributor could see it
[11:04] <kelemengabor> the main problem could be that the university exam season is starting these days :(
[11:05] <dpm> kelemengabor, cool. Yeah, I was just saying that some other channels in addition to your good coverage can also help
[11:05] <dpm> oh, I see
[11:32] <dpm> kelemengabor, I haven't had a look at how the new checkbox test descriptions are in Precise. Are they any better now, or are they still in text files?
[11:33] <kelemengabor> they are better, but still plaintext files
[11:34] <dpm> :/
[11:37] <kelemengabor> looks like this now: http://people.ubuntu.com/~kelemeng/pix/checkbox-precise.png
[11:46] <TLE> hey guys
[11:48] <TLE> do you know, just on the top of your head, if there has ever been made a bug report on the bad hyphenation in Unity?
[11:58] <dpm> TLE, I seem to remember there is one, but I'm telling you from memory, I haven't got a bug number
[11:58] <TLE> dpm: Ok, I'll start looking for it
[12:04] <TLE> The specific problem I have is this: http://dcwww.fysik.dtu.dk/~knielsen/files/unity-problem.png
[12:04] <TLE> So for these headlines apparently it just cuts of the word when there isn't room for anything more
[12:07] <trijntje> TLE: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/840470
[12:07] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 840470 in unity (Ubuntu) (and 2 other projects) "translated catogory names to wide for dash (affects: 2) (heat: 13)" [Medium,Triaged]
[12:08] <TLE> ahh thanks trijntje I actually couldn't find it
[12:10] <TLE> ahh, this is actually still in tht buttons on the left, and not in the center part, so maybe I should make a seperate bug
[12:10] <trijntje> TLE: yeah, I think that bug is slightly different
[12:11] <trijntje> however, from what I've heard they will remove that screen form unity, because it confuses users
[12:11] <TLE> and also the proposed solution. In stead of changing button sizes or fonts, I would propose letting the translator decide where the word should be devided
[12:12] <TLE> ahh ok, oh well, I'll make a bugreport anyway, then they have and can do with it what they want
[12:17] <kelemengabor> TLE: maybe bug #732261 is what you are looking for?
[12:17] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 732261 in unity-2d (Ubuntu) (and 5 other projects) "Long strings are not displayed properly in Dash (l10n) (affects: 8) (heat: 7)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/732261
[12:18] <TLE> kelemengabor: this is the same problem but a different behavior, wierd
[12:20] <TLE> in my Unity it does the same thing, but it no longer shows the ... in the next line
[14:30] <iceroot> i hope this procedure is ok because i dont know the needed steps https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt/+bug/900770
[14:30] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 900770 in apt (Ubuntu) "Typo in the german apt-get manpage (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New]
[14:41] <dpm> iceroot, that's fine. I've subscribed the Ubuntu German translation team to the bug, so that they are aware and can provide more info if necessary
[14:46] <iceroot> dpm: ah ok i choosed "ubuntu german loco" which seems something different
[14:48] <dpm> iceroot, that would have probably reached them too, but it's best to subscribe the translation team directly
[14:48] <iceroot> dpm: what is the difference? or what is a loco team?
[14:48] <andrejz> loco team is more general
[14:48] <andrejz> loco team does things like translation, promotion, local web page, events, ....
[14:49] <iceroot> more general like "just" german members?
[14:49] <andrejz> translation team is subgroup of a loco
[14:49] <iceroot> ah ok
[14:49] <dpm> iceroot, 'loco' is a short form of 'local community' team
[14:49] <dpm> which might have subgroups, for different activities, as Andrej is mentioning
[14:50] <iceroot> andrejz: dpm ok thank you for the info and the help
[14:50] <andrejz> dpm i have a short question. Do you happen to know if user gets karma for uploading translations to launchpad?
[14:50] <dpm> iceroot, no worries :) in general, translations bugs should be filed against the ubuntu-translations project, and then we take care of assigning them - but man pages are a bit of a special case, as we cannot translate them in Launchpad for technical reasons. In short, you did the right thing
[14:51] <iceroot> yes because of "manpage" i did that step, normally i am doing the translation directly in launchpad
[14:51] <dpm> andrejz, I seem to remember they do, but I'm not 100% certain. Would you mind asking on #launchpad to be sure?
[14:51] <andrejz> ok
[14:51] <iceroot> but because its also a upstreambug i guess launchpad-translation would be wrong (if it was not a manpage)
[14:52] <dpm> yes


[20:05] <maxolasersquad> DammitJim: https://www.ubuntu.com/info/release-end-of-life
[20:05] <maxolasersquad> Hardware and maintenance updates ended in 2016.
[20:05] <maxolasersquad> Full support for 14.04 falls off at the beginning of 2018.
[20:06] <maxolasersquad> The way I understand that, new hardware is no longer supported, but the other regulat package updates will keep coming through.
[20:06] <maxolasersquad> That should read that full support falls off in 2019.


[01:30] <anastasiamac> wallyworld: PTAL https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/10774 - update-cloud changes
[01:42] <thumper> https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/10763 updates for model log files on the controller
[01:43]  * wallyworld otp interviewing, soon
[01:45] <thumper> ack
[01:49] <babbageclunk> thumper: approved
[01:49] <thumper> babbageclunk: thanks
[01:59] <wallyworld> hpidcock: got a sec?
[02:00] <hpidcock> yep
[02:00] <wallyworld> standup
[02:08] <babbageclunk> thumper: super-simple review? https://github.com/juju/os/pull/14
[02:08] <thumper> sure
[02:09] <thumper> babbageclunk: all good
[02:09] <babbageclunk> to be followed by a dep update against 2.6 then a merge to 2.7
[02:24] <babbageclunk> thumper: looks like there was a backwards-incompatible change made to juju/os before mine (used in 2.7 but not 2.6). Should I just make the change to 2.7, or update 2.6 so that it can work without the removed function?
[02:24] <babbageclunk> just looking to see how the juju/juju code was changed
[02:42] <wallyworld> hpidcock: i left a few more thoughts. see what you think, especiallyu about the worker setup
[02:42] <wallyworld> i need to head out to 1:1 in about 5
[02:45] <babbageclunk> wallyworld: have you got 2 mins then?
[02:45] <babbageclunk> :))))
[02:46] <babbageclunk> bah looks like he already went
[02:48] <thumper> wallyworld: looks like an intermittent failure in apiserver/facades/client/action
[02:48] <babbageclunk> thumper: can I grab you for a moment - confused about the series stuff
[02:48] <thumper> babbageclunk: sure
[02:49] <babbageclunk> in 1:1
[02:49] <wallyworld> i'll look after 1:1 when i get back
[02:52] <thumper> wallyworld: ack
[02:57] <thumper> wallyworld: problem appears to be iterating over an unsorted set, using Values() rather than SortedValues() in action.go method Tasks
[03:04] <thumper> nope, just saw the swap in the test... that's gross
[03:07] <thumper> wallyworld: I'm on it
[03:15] <thumper> wallyworld: I have the fix
[03:15] <thumper> if my branch fails to merge again, I'll add it to mine and retry
[03:15] <thumper> if it merges I'll propose separately
[03:16] <thumper> we have a 50/50 chance either way
[03:16] <thumper> map ordering FTW
[03:17] <thumper> it failed again, so pushing fix to my branch
[03:17] <thumper> https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/10763/commits/4d6fee29f7e7614f5d546220f3c83cd208abeed1 FWIW
[03:21] <babbageclunk> I hate when a package has a directory that includes a broken symlink so they can test that it doesn't break them, and then it breaks any other tool that does stuff with that directory.
[03:30] <thumper> babbageclunk: like?
[03:31] <babbageclunk> make rebuild-dependencies is failing for me because of gopkg.in/juju/charmrepo.v2/internal/test-charm-repo/series/format2/hooks/symlink
[03:35] <thumper> stink
[03:37] <babbageclunk> it really is
[03:40] <babbageclunk> just blowing away the vendor dir fixes it.
[04:14] <wallyworld> hpidcock: back from 1:1 now if you need me to look at anything
[04:14] <hpidcock> wallyworld: just getting the worker together and fixing tests I just broke
[04:14] <hpidcock> probably 30min away
[04:14] <wallyworld> no worries, i reckon we can squeeze it in
[04:16] <hpidcock> hah let's hope so
[12:23] <hml> manadart:  do either of 10772 and 10773 (the small refactoring ones) require additional qa to land?
[12:25] <manadart> hml: Probably prudent to flex them some. We can contrive some steps and discuss and stand-up.
[12:25] <manadart> *at stand-up.
[12:26] <hml> manadart: agreed, just wasn’t sure if it’d been done already
[13:42] <nammn_de> rick_h: mind turning on github actions for juju/os? I can open PR with the workflow later
[13:42] <rick_h> nammn_de:  it's on
[13:42] <rick_h> "enable local & third party actions for this repository"
[13:42] <rick_h> nammn_de:  they have to land first though
[13:43] <nammn_de> rick_h: ta, go it
[13:43] <nammn_de> *got it
[14:37] <hml> simple review if someone is willing https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/10781
[14:51] <hml> achilleasa:  ping
[14:51] <rick_h> woooo! juju 2.7-beta available in the beta track now
[14:51] <rick_h> errr 2.7-beta1
[14:51] <achilleasa> hml: here
[14:51] <rick_h> ty stickupkid!!
[14:51] <rick_h> great stuff team!
[14:51]  * rick_h does a happy dance
[14:51] <rick_h> stickupkid:  hah, bug emails coming now
[14:52] <hml> achilleasa:  i’m not understanding WHY we validate the old default endpoint space when changing to a new one.
[14:53] <achilleasa> hml: we don't, we validate the new default if different than the old and not set to network.DefaultSpaceID
[14:54] <achilleasa> oh... I see what you mean. We can just always validate the new one right?
[14:54] <achilleasa> (so passing the old one through would not be needed)
[14:55] <hml> achilleasa perhaps? i was misreading and not connecting that the oldDefaultSpaceIDForApp was only used to see if the value changes.
[14:56] <hml> achilleasa:  either way is okay, now that i get what’s going on.  :-)
[14:56] <achilleasa> hml: you are right. Let me strip that out
[15:00] <achilleasa> hml: pushed a commit
[15:00] <hml> achilleasa: ty, looking
[15:03] <hml> achilleasa: nice, i think simplier easier to understand, and revalidating doesn’t hurt.
[15:03] <hml> achilleasa:  what are your thoughts around the Force values from the application and bind changes?
[15:04] <achilleasa> hml: did you see my comment in the other PR?
[15:04] <hml> achilleasa: just need to do qa on 10780
[15:04] <hml> achilleasa:  nope… will read now
[15:04] <achilleasa> hml: let me know if my reply makes sense :D
[15:07] <hml> achilleasa: yes, ty.  the corollary makes sense to me also.  put that in the pr.
[15:54] <hml> achilleasa: a question in 10780 before I approve.  it’s logged in the pr
[15:55] <achilleasa> hml: I don't understand... This was caused by "spaceNotFeasibleError" which should work now
[15:56] <achilleasa> hml: it should have been fixed by this: https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/10780/commits/7bfbaa36128734ad63f0ed2c4d0bb7309f293e2c#diff-3b940d8ae0b2e8e93eabd0ea62b619feR314-R340
[15:56] <hml> achilleasa:  hrm…  let me try again.
[15:57] <achilleasa> hml: is that on guimaas?
[15:57] <hml> achilleasa:  yes
[15:58] <achilleasa> hml: I will try next with a few log bits in there to see what's going on
[15:58] <hml> achilleasa:  let me check something first.
[15:59] <hml> achilleasa:  shit… sorry.  i think i know what’s going on.  damn release.  let me reproduce first
[15:59] <achilleasa> hml: I was about to suggest it's not running the right code :D
[16:00] <hml> checked my history and i didn’t use —build-agent during bootstrap
[16:00] <hml> probably picked up the wrong agents
[16:13] <nammn_de> stickupkid: os github actions and finally running on osx and windows https://github.com/juju/os/pull/15 :D
[16:18] <hml> achilleasa:  i had the wrong code.  qa from scratch now
[16:24] <stickupkid> nammn_de, CR'd
[16:27] <nammn_de> stickupkid: thanks man. The reason I changed the signature of the function is that people in future working on it don't get confused as I do. Actually I was hell of confused what the reason for the test was and why it failed. As I am not on windows this was a not fun debug session :D. The function only get's used for the test anyway.
[16:28] <stickupkid> nammn_de, it gets used in newDetectHardwareScript in winrmprovisioner.go
[16:28] <stickupkid> nammn_de, and we would throw that info away in that function
[16:28] <nammn_de> stickupkid: ahh, we use it on other repos
[16:29] <stickupkid> nammn_de, yarp
[16:29] <nammn_de> stickupkid: then let me change it on test level.
[16:29] <stickupkid> nammn_de, hence why i think we shouldn't change the signature
[16:29] <stickupkid> wicked
[16:29] <stickupkid> :D
[16:29] <stickupkid> or WICKED
[16:29] <stickupkid> GREAT WORK
[16:29] <nammn_de> stickupkid: dammnit, this function itself is SIMPLE but CONFUSING at once :D
[16:29] <stickupkid> nammn_de, yeah, global state SUCKS
[16:29] <nammn_de> as for someone without context
[16:29] <stickupkid> nammn_de, no no, that package is horrid
[16:30] <nammn_de> stickupkid: ha, thats true 😿
[16:31] <stickupkid> nammn_de, it should be take a inspector, which returns a host series as a dependency and then use the vistor pattern to walk over the series to ensure it's valid
[16:31] <stickupkid> nammn_de, that's what i'd do, but would cause pain to move to it
[16:37] <hml> achilleasa:  much better with the correct code!
[16:43] <nammn_de> stickupkid: yeah seems like we have a lot of places where we could add work. I guess takes quite some time no one is really willing to invest for some spaces :D
[16:58] <stickupkid> nammn_de, looks good to me
[16:59] <nammn_de> stickupkid: thanks
[17:00] <nammn_de> stickupkid: catalina support should already be merged, right? no more work to be done
[17:00] <nammn_de> ?
[20:26] <timClicks> this is a really interesting post https://discourse.jujucharms.com/t/any-advice-on-using-juju-for-regular-websites/2223/6
[20:27] <rick_h> timClicks:  yea, crazy post
[20:28] <timClicks> single engineer has supported over 2,000 deployments (most test/staging, I expect) each with their own version of php, magento/wordpress, mail, SSO, ...
[20:30] <rick_h> wheeeee
[20:30] <rick_h> "
[20:30] <rick_h> "part time"
[20:41] <rick_h> timClicks:  when you're free I'd love to catch up on how you'd like to go about the 2.7-beta1 release notes bit
[20:42] <rick_h> timClicks:  we didn't send anything out yet because of the debs we'll process tomorrow but wanted to sync on highest priority material. I tried to add some bits on the "to document" discourse post but I'm not sure if that's meant for beta1 release notes and such
[20:42] <timClicks> ah right
[20:43] <timClicks> I removed the non-snap instructions from the notes and pushed it love
[20:43] <timClicks> *live
[20:43] <timClicks> we can edit them back in once they're available
[20:44] <timClicks> rick_h: did you want to jump into a call?
[20:45] <rick_h> timClicks:  sure thing, omw to the cross team
[22:11] <admcleod> how is the lxd snap installer working with network restricted installs?
[22:13] <admcleod> i.e does the apt proxy get passed to snapd?
[22:15] <rick_h> admcleod:  so there's a snap proxy config I would expect to be set
[22:16] <admcleod> rick_h: in model-config?
[22:16] <rick_h> admcleod:  note this is 2.7 only as lxd is gotten from a deb before 2.7
[22:16] <admcleod> rick_h: riiiight ok
[22:16] <rick_h> admcleod:  and 2.7 has the updated code to handle lxd from a snap source and working in a better way
[22:16] <admcleod> rick_h: ok thanks. wont log a bug then
[22:23] <admcleod> rick_h: ad i seem to have wrked around it with 2.6.9 so \o/
[22:29] <rick_h> admcleod:  woot
[22:51] <anastasiamac> admcleod: would b awesome if u could document ur workaround in discourse \o/ well done!!
[22:52] <admcleod> anastasiamac: i can do that if you tell me which one specifically
[23:00] <anastasiamac> admcleod: I've create this for u using the wording in this conv... feel free to edit/comment
[23:00] <anastasiamac> admcleod: tyvm
[23:02] <anastasiamac> admcleod: https://discourse.jujucharms.com/t/pre-2-7-lxd-snap-installs-with-network-restrictions/2269
[23:05] <admcleod> anastasiamac: done
[23:06] <anastasiamac> admcleod: \o/
[23:13] <wallyworld> hpidcock: i have meetings for the next while soon, but i left a few comments to look at
[23:14] <hpidcock> thanks


[05:28] <bazhang> free pgp key?
[08:46] <vish> hehe , neat everytime i join +3   i get this :D  >   * You have been kicked from #ubuntu+3 by ChanServ (Invite only channel)
[08:50] <Mamarok> vish: and why would you want to join a non-exisitng channel?
[08:50] <vish> Mamarok: nah , just read the above ^backlog and tried it ;)
[08:58] <arand> vish: It's a conspiracy!