[03:43] <jsgotangco> hi all
[03:43] <mhz> jsgotangco: I subscribed to ML and read about DocumentationTeam. Also i read about a WikiTeam
[03:43] <jsgotangco> well there's a small group that actually clean up the wiki (not change content)
[03:44] <mhz> is that part of same ML?
[03:44] <jsgotangco> yes
[03:44] <jsgotangco> its a subgroup of the docteam
[03:44] <mhz> oh, I see.
[03:45] <mhz> jsgotangco: so, basically, any time I clean up wiki pages towards more wiki like code, I am being part of WikiTeam ? :)
[03:46] <jsgotangco> sure coordinate with people like mdke and robitaille they're wiki people...
[03:46] <jsgotangco> and Madpilot
[03:46] <Madpilot> mhz: you can't escape being part of the WikiTeam! ;)
[03:46] <mhz> lol
[03:47] <jsgotangco> ahh i see dapper seeds...
[03:48] <mhz> Madpilot: when you specify on WikiTeam ToDo's " Convert all pages to MoinMoin Syntax and deactivate the other input methods"...
[03:48] <mhz> especifically, does that involve CamelCasingPages?
[03:49] <mhz> jsgotangco: seeds? already?
[03:49] <jsgotangco> not necessarily
[03:49] <Madpilot> mhz: as far as I know, that's basically what it means, yes.
[03:49] <jsgotangco> sometimes you'll get ridiculous titles with CameCase
[03:50] <Madpilot> there doesn't seem to be a lot of old-wiki markup left
[03:50] <mhz> Madpilot: but based on the ML discussion and my talk to mdke, CamelCase is not a real favourite here.
[03:50] <mhz> exactly
[03:51] <mhz> So, how should one understand this?
[03:51] <jsgotangco> CamelCase is useful but can be limiting
[03:51] <mhz> jsgotangco: i agree
[03:52] <mhz> so, basically, it's the 'librarian' personal judgment to decide?
[03:55] <jsgotangco> nice
[03:57] <mhz> jsgotangco: unvelievably.. I agree with you on not using Moin to fulfil the Ubuntu goal.
[03:58] <mhz> So now, soon enough, I'll have to learn DocBook and Bazaar
[05:22] <jsgotangco> bleahhh
[05:23] <Madpilot> hmm?
[05:23] <jsgotangco> something is borked in kubuntu...
[05:23] <jsgotangco> it doesn't even load my usb stick
[05:25] <jsgotangco> its still too loud too
[05:25] <jsgotangco> hehe
[05:25] <Madpilot> Kubuntu is too loud? huh?
[05:26] <jsgotangco> i should disable the sound events
[05:34] <mhz> jsgotangco: is kde set to 'auto-mount' or manual?
[05:35] <jsgotangco> its supposed to auto-mount dohhhh
[05:35] <jsgotangco> the previous version did
[05:35] <mhz> could you try 'manula' mounting?
[05:35] <mhz> 'manula' = manual
[05:37] <jsgotangco> i'll try that later
[05:37] <jsgotangco> need to sort things out first with the kubuntu docs (reviewing them now)
[05:38] <jsgotangco> the kde docs are very nicely formatted
[05:38] <jsgotangco> Automounting
[05:39] <jsgotangco> If you are sick of hunting for where your CD-ROM and Memory stick are setup, in Kubuntu 5.10, these are automounted for ease of use.
[05:39] <jsgotangco> An error occurred while loading media:/sda1:
[05:39] <jsgotangco> The file or folder media:/sda1 does not exist.
[05:39] <jsgotangco> hehe
[05:39] <mhz> hehehe
[05:39] <mhz> lol
[05:40] <jsgotangco> oh my god Katapult is great
[05:40] <mhz> AFAIK, it shoul not exist when we talk about automounting
[05:40] <mhz>  /media/something should be autogenerated
[05:40] <mhz> right?
[05:44] <jsgotangco> right
[08:03] <spear> hi !
[08:23] <jsgotangco> hi there
[08:24] <spear> :)
[08:25] <spear> i'm trying to grab documentation about usplash from the development team
[08:25] <jsgotangco> ahhh
[08:25] <jsgotangco> documentation is always welcome
[08:25] <jsgotangco> :)
[08:25] <jsgotangco> what we lack at the moment are developer docs
[08:25] <jsgotangco> (but most debian docs apply)
[08:26] <jsgotangco> you might be interested to join in the meeting on the 21st at 14UTC
[08:28] <spear> i belong to the french translation team, so partly documentation, but i'll send feedback if i get some :)
[08:30] <spear> i'm requesting information about Usplash
[08:30] <spear> i needed to install it on a home built kernel, but it's so poorly documented i did't know what the prerequisites are ???
[08:31] <Madpilot> hi robitaille
[08:31] <spear> i have the information :)
[08:32] <robitaille> Hello Madpilot
[08:34] <robitaille> I still can't believe that the way to list to Lessig talk on free culture is via a flash presentation (http://lessig.org/freeculture/)
[08:34] <robitaille> the best way...alternate ways are via mp3 and powerpoint slides...
[08:35] <Madpilot> oops. So much for 'free culture', hmmm?
[08:37] <robitaille> since my "free week" is up on my laptop, maybe I should reinstall flash just for this.
[08:40] <rob^> hi
[08:40] <Madpilot> robitaille: so how did your "free week" go?
[08:41] <robitaille> it was fine.  I'm goingb to briefly blog abo0ut before gonig to bed.  The only thing I notice was flash; for that presenation, and a couple of other web sites I visited.  Everything else I used was available in the main and universe repos.
[08:44] <Burgundavia> robitaille, Lessig also uses a non-free wiki
[09:07] <sladen> spear: I don't know there is much.  there is the specs and the source code
[09:11] <spear> i asked the development team : all that is needed is framebuffer & initramfs in the kernel
[09:13] <spear> Hi Paul, thought you were in Finland or something like that ?
[09:16] <spear> i wanted to contact you about Usplash, visiting you homepage, but i thought you were busy, or maybe i'm too shy :D
[09:18] <sladen> spear: if you looked at my away message, you probably noticed that I'm currently in Helsinki ;-)
[09:19] <sladen> spear: what would you like?
[09:20] <spear> i only wanted to know about Usplash what the prerequisites were once you use a home-built kernel (not an Ubuntu all made kernel) ; but i asked to the development channel, excusing about annoying them, and they kindly told me that in a new kernel, initramfs and framebuffer are the only required things that need to be activated in the kernel for usplash to work
[09:22] <sladen> there is nothing in the kernel at all for usplash
[09:22] <sladen> usplash == user-splash
[09:22] <spear> :D
[09:22] <sladen> done entirely in userspace
[09:22] <sladen> all it wants is a framebuffer
[09:22] <spear> darn, so these options aren't required either ?
[09:23] <sladen> vga16fb (16 colours) is used because that's the only one that also gives us hibernate and suspend
[09:23] <sladen> what options?
[09:23] <spear> kernel options ?
[09:23] <spear> frambuffer & initramfs have to be activated ?
[09:23] <sladen> you need to pass the 'splash' otherwise usplash doesn't know that it should start
[09:23] <sladen> and you need to pass 'vga=' so that the kernel knows which video mode to use
[09:24] <sladen> ...not all of the options on the commandline are used by the kernel, several are passed through to the programs starting up the system
[09:25] <spear> i think that, like many, things that got me confused about Usplash is that i looked after splash things, and read about bootsplash, and as mentioned on the dev channel, i should forget everything about bootsplash (kernel patches, options in the kernel) because it has nothing to do with Usplash
[09:25] <sladen> correct
[09:26] <spear> i'll try to be clear and repeat it on our french sections : usplash has nothing to do with bootsplash (and it is not a fork)
[09:26] <sladen> oui
[09:26] <spear> :)
[09:26] <spear> merci Paul pour votre patience
[09:26] <sladen> spear: merci, et pardon je petite Francais ;-)
[09:27] <spear> :) thanks Paul
[09:28] <spear> can i say in the post i contacted you and you clarified things or should i only mention i found the answer on the channel ?
[09:29] <spear> (the irc channel, not on a ferry boat bringing me to UK to ask you directly the question (and as you're in Helskinki ...))
[09:29] <sladen> spear: I don't mind
[09:29] <sladen> :)
[09:30] <sladen> sur la Marche dans la Eurostar
[09:30] <sladen> l'Eurostar I think
[09:30] <spear> la Manche !
[09:30] <spear> marche is " step "
[09:31] <spear> i'll take the Eurostar next week to visit London :)
[09:31] <spear> I livein Lille
[09:31] <sladen> ooh, I pass through there from time-to-time.  Normally to/from Brussels.
[09:32] <sladen> and I have a friend in Gent, so if I leave it too late to go Gent->Brussel I take the slow train across the border (Toursca?) and then try to blag my way on at Lille
[09:33] <spear> Gent is a hard time because not many speak french there ...
[09:34] <spear> i remember, years ago, i was called (am a technician) to fix a computer in a shop selling Whool ... the employee didn't speak french, and MS-DOS was in flamand (kinda dutch) ... nightmare :)
[09:36] <spear> what's the weather like in Helsinki ?
[10:15] <spear> so
[10:15] <jsgotangco> so?
[10:15] <spear> :)
[10:15] <spear> soso
[10:23] <spear> thanks, bye !
[05:37] <silbs> hi folks
[05:37] <silbs> is there any doc on the oem installer? couldn't find it on the wiki
[06:16] <mdke> silbs, don't think so
[06:16] <silbs> mdke: thanks
[06:22] <jjesse> argh froud pisses me off sometimes (see his last email)
[06:22] <mdke> silbs, np sorry i didn't have a better answer :)
[06:22] <mdke> jjesse, yes, speak to Riddell and sort it out
[06:22] <mdke> there is no point allowing him to make "plans" about kubuntu documentation without going through the people who are doing the work (yourself and Riddell)
[06:23] <jjesse> mdke:  working on a reply to the group and copying Riddell  in on it
[06:23] <mdke> k
[06:26] <Riddell> hmm?
[06:27] <jjesse> frustrating email to the doc list, i'll forward it on to you
[06:29] <jjesse> Riddell:   did you merge branches/breezy/kde back to trunk/kde?
[06:29] <Riddell> jjesse: nope, I'll try and do that now
[06:31] <jjesse> what's going on with the previews on doc.ubuntu.com not working for any of tthem
[06:33] <mdke> not working in what sense?
[06:33] <apokryphos> check the links
[06:33] <mdke> ah i see
[06:33] <mdke> fucking hell
[06:33] <mdke> someone has changed the index.html
[06:34] <mdke> mental note: get backups
[06:38] <mdke> ok will sort it at some stage
[06:44] <jjesse> apokryphos: just submitted your patch
[06:44] <apokryphos> cool, thanks
[06:45] <apokryphos> Not sure if you guys want to use it, but on kde docs we have a docbook sanitizer which comes in very handy (and you could use): http://englishbreakfastnetwork.org/sanitizer/
[06:45] <apokryphos> not *as* useful since your markup is a *lot* less strict than the kde docbook, but it could be good for a consistency with particular word-spellings etc
[06:45] <jjesse> apokryphos:  thanklook into its ill
[06:46] <mdke> bookmarked
[06:47] <jjesse> me as well
[07:14] <WaterSevenUb> hi
[07:15] <WaterSevenUb> jbailey, could you please look to http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18050
[07:22] <Riddell> jjesse: I got distracted by 3.5beta2 and I'm off out now but poke me if I don't put them in svn this evening
[07:23] <jjesse> Riddell: no worries is it easy to upgrade to kde 3.5 beta 2?
[07:31] <WaterSevenUb> jbailey, I'll ping you tomorrow... g go..
[07:33] <jbailey> I've taken 18050, I'll look at it.
[09:40] <mdke> hi jjesse
[09:49] <froud> mdke: ping
[09:52] <mdke> hi
[09:52] <froud> I am concerned about branches/breezy and trunk drift
[09:53] <mdke> ok
[09:53] <froud> it's getting hard to merge back to trunk
[09:53] <mdke> getting?
[09:53] <mdke> nothing has changed really in the branch
[09:53] <froud> yah the number of conflicts arising in increasing
[09:54] <mdke> ok
[09:54] <mdke> well feel free to help out with the merge
[09:54] <froud> the branch was created at 1771
[09:54] <mdke> will you be involved in -docs stuff in the future?
[09:55] <froud> as the gap between 1771 and HEAD grows it will be more and more difficult to resolve the problems
[09:55] <froud> I am going to try merge back now
[09:55] <mdke> please speak to jbailey before doing that
[09:55] <froud> you can still use branches/breezy
[09:55] <mdke> sure i know
[09:55] <froud> just we need to merge back to trunk more often
[09:56] <froud> is jbailey working in trunk on something?
[09:56] <froud> ping jbailey
[09:56] <froud> :-( Oh no
[09:57] <froud> D trunk/gnome/aboutubuntu/ca/about-ubuntu-ca.omf
[09:57] <froud> D trunk/gnome/aboutubuntu/ca/Makefile
[09:57] <froud> D trunk/gnome/aboutubuntu/ca
[09:57] <froud> D trunk/gnome/aboutubuntu/ca
[09:57] <froud> error (1)
[09:57] <froud> that's the second time it has failed
[09:57] <froud> Arhgghh
[09:57] <mdke> what is the problem?
[09:58] <froud> was anyone taking care of the branches/breezy to trunk diff
[09:58] <mdke> i think that jeff will do it
[09:59] <froud> when last did he try do it
[09:59] <froud> I cant get the merge to work
[09:59] <froud> svn merge -r 1771:HEAD https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/branches/breezy trunk
[09:59] <mdke> he may not have tried yet
[09:59] <mdke> froud, you didn't answer my question about working on -docs in the future
[09:59] <froud> We may have a problem :-(
[10:00] <froud> I do stuff when I can and when I see a way to do so without conflict
[10:00] <froud> my itches are not those of the others
[10:00] <mdke> true
[10:01] <mdke> like "i am planning to do x, y, z with kubuntu-docs"
[10:01] <froud> what do you mean?
[10:01] <froud> x y z ?
[10:01] <froud> Ah you mean fork it out
[10:02] <mdke> http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2005-October/003901.html
[10:02] <froud> I just feel that kubuntu-docs does not do well in ubuntu
[10:02] <froud> the people here are focused on ubuntu not kubuntu
[10:02] <mdke> true
[10:02] <froud> from the past releases experience they dont care much for kubuntu
[10:03] <mdke> but your sudden appearance after several months of silence just saying "I am forking kubuntu docs and making them a subset of upstream kde" is odd
[10:03] <froud> as a result newbies comming to do kubuntu work are often left unloved
[10:03] <mdke> especially after the hard work of jjesse and Riddell
[10:03] <froud> no I have discussed this with kubuntu devel
[10:04] <froud> mdke: Riddell should remember me discussing the problems with kubuntu docs in Ubuntu svn
[10:05] <froud> the aim is to work in the good of kubuntu-docs
[10:05] <froud> its not a negative thing
[10:05] <froud> the sources will be open
[10:05] <froud> as they must
[10:05] <froud> and people who work only on kubuntu can get bandwdith
[10:06] <froud> The breaking of faqguide profiles was a big problem
[10:06] <mdke> whatever
[10:07] <froud> mdke: can you really say that staying in the ubuntu svn will benefit kubuntu-docs?
[10:07] <mdke> sure
[10:07] <mdke> the svn is completely irrelevant
[10:07] <froud> people like Riddell and jjesse can continue in another repository
[10:07] <mdke> there is nothing to stop the two trees from being separate
[10:07] <mdke> but there is absolutely not one single reason to have 2 repositories
[10:08] <froud> mdke: see this and tell me so https://mirror1.cvsdude.com/trac/techdocs/turbocash
[10:09] <mdke> ok i've had enough
[10:10] <froud> OK
[10:10] <froud> well, hop you will be OK with the merge back to trunk
[10:10] <mdke> thanks
[10:10] <froud> bye
[10:57] <thechitowncubs> any of you use Network Profiles?
[11:35] <mdke> no more linode slowness for us!
[11:35] <thechitowncubs> neato
[11:35] <mdke> hi thechitowncubs
[11:36] <mdke> thechitowncubs, did you see the recent stuff I posted to the list about the wiki, specifically wiki forum relations?
[11:39] <thechitowncubs> mdke: i'm reading it now
[11:39] <mdke> cool
[11:40] <mdke> thechitowncubs, basically the idea is to clean up the forum page and to make a decent and simple wiki guide
[11:41] <thechitowncubs> ya sounds good
[11:41] <thechitowncubs> i'll check out the Draft page
[11:41] <mdke> good on ya
[11:42] <mdke> are you still doing wiki work?
[11:42] <thechitowncubs> mdke: every once and a while
[11:42] <mdke> cool
[11:43] <mdke> thechitowncubs, can I ask you about the LP wiki team?
[11:43] <thechitowncubs> mdke: alrighty
[11:44] <mdke> thechitowncubs, who approved SteveMyers?
[11:45] <mdke> i think we need to set up a scheme for approval, to try and encourage people to get in touch with the docteam mailing list if they do wiki work/join that team
[11:45] <thechitowncubs> I approved him, has he done something wrong?
[11:45] <mdke> yeah
[11:46] <mdke> he did loads of random editing on the wiki, deleted our comments on his homepage, and hasn't answered my emails
[11:46] <mdke> in general, never contacted the doc team at all
[11:47] <thechitowncubs> Wow, do you want me to do anything about it?
[11:47] <mdke> IMO if we want to use the LP team for a concrete reason, I think we should use it to encourage people to come forward and engage in dialogue before approving them
[11:47] <mdke> most LP teams have a some barrier to entry
[11:47] <thechitowncubs> ya, sounds good, at the time when i got the email I hadn't been in touch for a while
[11:48] <mdke> that could be ours
[11:48] <ajmitch> eg MOTUs have to go through the TB grilling
[11:48] <mdke> also, perhaps saying that they have read and understood the guide when we finalise it
[11:48] <ajmitch> so a doc team grilling should be a good step
[11:48] <mdke> ajmitch, ++
[11:48] <mdke> not a grilling, just a "come and talk to us"
[11:48] <thechitowncubs> That was the original reason for the approval scheme but I slipped a bit
[11:48] <mdke> because that SteveMyers guy really has ignored all our efforts to involve him
[11:48] <ajmitch> well, grilling in the sense of 'what do you want to do, and how?'
[11:49] <mdke> also read his homepage on the wiki
[11:49] <mdke> it contains a number of untruths (Ubuntu Forum Staff) and some weird stuff
[11:49] <mdke> ajmitch, yeah the translation teams also have a barrier to entry too
[11:50] <thechitowncubs> mdke: thats really odd
[11:50] <ajmitch> his writing skills are poor on his own wiki page
[11:50] <mdke> yeah, perhaps disactivate him with a nice message to get in touch with us at the docteam list
[11:50] <mdke> ajmitch, you should see the wiki pages he's created ;)
[11:50] <ajmitch> mdke: I shudder to think..
[11:51] <thechitowncubs> mdke: no problem
[11:51] <mdke> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PostFix
[11:51] <ajmitch> CamelCase & all?
[11:51] <mdke> it gets worse as you go down
[11:51] <ajmitch> oh dear
[11:51] <mdke> i started tidying up the top and then just gave up
[11:51] <mdke> gtg to bed now
[11:51] <ajmitch> eek
[11:52] <ajmitch> that's one scary howto
[11:52] <mdke> lol
[11:52] <mdke> compare and contrast with this, by a complete newcomer who announced it nicely on the mailing list: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Mailman
[11:52] <mdke> (bed)
[11:53] <thechitowncubs> Alright I deactivated, we'll see if he really does want to get involved.


 :D
[17:35] <zaki> adding legacy contact in my facebook id. if something happen to me. he will look after my fb id. :D
[17:38] <zaki> wow. welcome Tuhin_
[17:38] <zaki> y got a tail, nice tail :P
[17:39] <pavlushka> ya, welcome Tuhin_
[17:40] <pavlushka> zaki: that's cool, adding
[17:41] <Tuhin_> Hi
[17:42] <zaki> hi Tuhin_ how are you?
[17:43] <Tuhin_> i m okay
[18:19] <pavlushka> me too :P


[14:01] <rick_h_> morning and such
[14:26] <cmaloney> Good morning!
[14:26] <cmaloney> How's the morning so far?
[14:26] <rick_h_> wheeee
[14:27] <cmaloney> inbox zero looking less and less likely?
[14:27] <rick_h_> hah, wtf is that?!
[14:28] <rick_h_> only have to "loading more" once in my home account and twice on my work accoun?
[14:30] <cmaloney> Nah, it means everything in the inbox is captured appropriately, clarified, and put onto a list so you can create next actions from it and work from that list rather than your inbox. :)
[14:31] <cmaloney> Also: getting retweeted by Jeff Jarvis is a great way to blow up your Twitter.
[14:32] <rick_h_> nice!
[14:32] <rick_h_> what tweet did that?
[14:33] <cmaloney> The canary gets blamed for the coal mine disasters
[14:33] <cmaloney> in response to some newspaper person going off on him for destroying newspapers
[16:53] <rick_h_> wtf, that was 10 years ago?! http://arstechnica.com/science/2016/02/bbc-planet-earth-ii-4k-uhd-drones/
[16:55] <jrwren> 4k isn't enough. i want 8k ;]
[16:56] <jrwren> kidding asside, i look forward to seeing this in 4k
[16:56] <cmaloney> all the K
[16:56] <jrwren> Kelvins!
[16:56] <cmaloney> 640K should be enough for everyone
[16:56] <rick_h_> ugh, anyone have a 4k tv?
[16:56] <jrwren> well that is pretty hot.  at 640Kelvins we'd all be dead.
[16:56] <cmaloney> I had a 4 kilo TV
[16:56] <jrwren> I have a 4k tv.
[16:57] <rick_h_> do you? cool I hadn't realized anyone was getting that deep into stuff
[16:57] <cmaloney> I think we had a 45 kilo TV at one point
[16:57]  * rick_h_ hasn't moved past 32" led and barely uses 1080p
[16:57] <jrwren> I'm NOT a toy boy.
[16:57] <jrwren> my previous TV was 26"
[16:57] <cmaloney> *bullshit*
[16:57] <jrwren> o-O
[16:57] <cmaloney> ;)
[16:58]  * rick_h_ is a toy boy...but not really into tv toys I guess
[16:58] <cmaloney> I'm still running DVDs
[16:58] <jrwren> ok, i'm a cheap son of a bitch when it comes to toys, and when finally getting to bigger than 26" TV, it wasn't cost prohibitive
[16:58] <rick_h_> sdcard in the motox pure means "offline all the movies!" yay
[16:58] <jrwren> kodi+samba share means offline all the movies... terabytes of them
[16:59] <rick_h_> how do you offline them onto planes?
[16:59] <jrwren> i don't.
[16:59] <jrwren> what is a plane? :p
[16:59] <jrwren> i sleep on those, the 2 times a year I go on them (yes, only 2 times last year)
[16:59] <rick_h_> hah 'offline' == 'works on internetless plane'
[17:00] <jrwren> 'offline' == works when my ISP is down
[17:00] <jrwren> we have fun different definitions of offline.  I like them.
[18:45] <cmaloney> offline is whenever the power goes out and the battery on the phone loses charge.
[18:45] <cmaloney> or if I'm in a plane
[18:45] <cmaloney> which happens about once a decade
[18:46] <cmaloney> I've been on a plane I think four times in my life
[18:46]  * cmaloney counts on his fingers
[18:46] <cmaloney> (two times for Classic Gaming Expo in 1999 / 2000, once for ALU, and once for Pycon 2014)
[18:47] <rick_h_> heh
[18:48] <rick_h_> wed i'll hit gold status for 2016  wheee
[18:48] <cmaloney> There's only been 2 months
[18:48] <cmaloney> not even
[18:48] <cmaloney> shit
[18:48] <rick_h_> yea, crazy start to the year
[18:48] <cmaloney> (OK, that doesn't include return trips)
[18:48] <cmaloney> so 8 times
[18:51] <jrwren> rick_h_: that was quick.
[18:52] <jrwren> someday, i'll be bronze.
[18:52] <jrwren> i couldn't figure out all teh status, then I realized it is just lick starcraft2 ladder.
[18:52] <rick_h_> jrwren: yea, well 15k of the 50k (600 miles short today) were carry over
[18:58] <_stink_> i just play nethack on flights
[18:59] <rick_h_> hah
[18:59] <rick_h_> here you go cmaloney, for next nanowrimo or whatever it is http://techcrunch.com/2016/02/23/freewrite-the-distraction-free-smart-typewriter-is-now-on-sale/
[19:01] <rick_h_> ok, I want to play with one
[19:01] <rick_h_> but not enough to buy one, so someone else get one so I can try it out :P
[19:03] <cmaloney> Yeah, I aaaaalmost got one of those.
[19:03] <cmaloney> They're made in Detroit
[19:03] <rick_h_> nice
[19:03] <cmaloney> Not $500 worth of writing though
[19:04] <rick_h_> yea
[19:04] <cmaloney> I have a Model 100 that will suit the bill (NEC 8201A, but still)
[19:04] <rick_h_> it's cool, love the eink screen idea
[19:05] <rick_h_> but $500 means you need to make some $$ from writing on it I think
[19:05] <cmaloney> I'd have to make a lot of money from writing
[19:05] <rick_h_> I don't know about that. I mean, a good tool you need to make back in a few months?
[19:06] <rick_h_> I mean a couple of grand a month in writing and it'd be totally worth it if it helped you write?
[19:07] <cmaloney> Oh totally.
[19:09] <cmaloney> This would be awesome for rick_h_'s version of "Travel's with Charlie"
[19:09] <rick_h_> Travels with Charlie?
[19:09]  * rick_h_ does not get reference
[19:10] <cmaloney> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Travels_with_Charley
[19:15] <cmaloney> http://www.lightbolt.com/tandy-model-100-102-200-nec-8201a-8300-stuff/
[19:15] <cmaloney> Working NEC 8201a with Full Bank of RAM (32k RAM) – $129.99
[19:16] <cmaloney> That's awesome.
[19:16] <cmaloney> not sure about the $40 for his transfer software though
[19:16]  * cmaloney is half-tempted to bring one to the next CHC
[19:22] <jrwren> i remember those tandy's.
[19:23] <cmaloney> Yeah, Rat Shack had a ton of them
[19:25] <jrwren> well yeah, tandy.
[19:27] <cmaloney> They'll always be Rat Shack to me
[19:27] <cmaloney> Tandy Radio Shack model ...
[19:27] <cmaloney> Still think the  MOdel 3 was a damn sexy machine
[19:28] <jrwren> makes me wonder...
[19:28] <cmaloney> heh
[19:28] <jrwren> what if dell or acer had bought ratshack and used it to peddle their garbage.
[19:28] <cmaloney> Gateway would have done it
[19:28] <cmaloney> totally
[19:28] <cmaloney> had they not had their ill-performing showrooms they would have totally bought Radio Shack
[19:29] <cmaloney> and turned them into steaming piles of garbage.
[19:31] <jrwren> well, gateway is acer now.
[19:31] <jrwren> :)
[19:33] <cmaloney> woo woo
[19:33] <jrwren> i always forget taht there actually aren't that many manufacturers or even sellers these days.
[19:34] <jrwren> i'm used to the late 90s where everyone was selling their own desktops and laptops
[19:34] <cmaloney> Yeah, now it's all a handful of manufacturers
[19:34] <cmaloney> I'm surprised Costco doesn't have Kirkland laptops
[19:35] <cmaloney> (please don't tell me they have Kirkland laptops)
[19:39] <jrwren> i'm kinda surprised too
[19:40] <jrwren> might as well buy a clevo and stick their name on it.
[19:40] <jrwren> they are probably too smart for that cuz they know its a support nightmare.
[19:40] <jrwren> not much to support wine, peanut butter, and olive oil ;]
[19:45] <cmaloney> heh


[15:00] <juliank> o/
[15:00] <slyon> o/
[15:00] <mateus-morais> o/
[15:00] <waveform> \o
[15:00] <mkukri> o/
[15:00] <bdrung> \o
[15:00] <Skia> o/
[15:01] <liushuyu> o/
[15:01] <upils> \o
[15:01] <ginggs> o/
[15:01] <mclemenceau> o/
[15:02] <dviererbe> o/
[15:02] <zhsj> o/
[15:03] <juliank> #startmeeting Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team
[15:03] <meetingology> Meeting started at 15:03:05 UTC.  The chair is juliank.  Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
[15:03] <meetingology> Available commands: action, commands, idea, info, link, nick
[15:03] <juliank> #topic Lightning rounds
[15:03] <adrien> \o
[15:03] <juliank> #link https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/foundations-team-updates-thursday-2024-03-21/43313
[15:04] <pushkarnk> o/
[15:08] <bdrung> waveform, `eval "$(grep "^VERSION_CODENAME=" /etc/os-release)"` can be just changed to `. /etc/os-release`
[15:09] <waveform> it could... but it just feels a bit "dirty" to me :)
[15:10] <bdmurray> Less dirty than that ^^
[15:10] <juliank> quite tricky that os-release
[15:10] <adrien> you could do that in a subshell and echo the appropriate value too
[15:10] <juliank> You definitely need a subshell
[15:10] <bdrung> waveform, the os-release spec says that it is shell sourceable
[15:11] <juliank> i.e. we needed to do +GRUB_DISTRIBUTOR=`( . /etc/os-release; echo ${NAME:-@DPKG_VENDOR@} ) 2>/dev/null || echo @DPKG_VENDOR@`
[15:11] <waveform> sure, but do I want to trawl the spec and make certain it can't clobber any existing vars I've got in the env or do I just want to cherry pick the one I'm interested in?
[15:12] <juliank> The shell just aborts entirely if sourcing os-release fails, hence the need for the subshell
[15:12] <juliank> i.e. we don't trust it's always readable
[15:13] <juliank> users mess up stuff but breaking boot for it would be ugh
[15:13] <juliank> "But I want my system to identify itself as Foobar OS 25.564.53"!
[15:13] <juliank> Anyway, it's getting late, we should move on :)
[15:13] <bdmurray> "users mess up stuff" <- truer words were never said
[15:13] <bdrung> but in this case it is an autopkgtest and it would be fine to fail if os-release contains garbage
[15:13] <juliank> ack
[15:13] <juliank> #topic Release incoming bugs
[15:14] <juliank> #link http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-nn-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
[15:14] <juliank> bug http://launchpad.net/bugs/2054343
[15:14] -ubottu:#ubuntu-meeting- Launchpad bug 2054343 in gcc-10 (Ubuntu) "arm64 build of gcc-10 10.5.0-3ubuntu1 still broken (CVE-2023-4039 still open)" [Wishlist, Confirmed]
[15:14] <juliank> This is the only bug today!
[15:15] <juliank> This needs to be fixed in focal as it is in main
[15:15] <juliank> In all other releases it is in universe, so it's up to the ESM team to deliver a fix to esm-app-security
[15:15] <Skia> there is one in unknown that may be foundations too: bug 2058227
[15:15] -ubottu:#ubuntu-meeting- Bug 2058227 in apt-xapian-index (Ubuntu) "Crash during upgrade from Mantic to Noble due to Python 3.12" [Undecided, New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2058227
[15:17] <juliank> Wait am I right in counting, is focal still in standard support?
[15:17] <waveform> yup
[15:17] <waveform> focal's still supported
[15:17]  * waveform eyes his home server still running focal...
[15:18] <pushkarnk> yeah, have been running JDK compliance tests for focal :D
[15:18] <bdmurray> a-x-i is only in main for trusty
[15:18] <bdmurray> I imagine the fix is simple though but is that package even useful? it was last updated in Focal
[15:20] <juliank> OK so what I did for gcc-10 is add focal task, change jj, mm to wontfix and said that's a Pro thing
[15:20] <juliank> Oh but probably it should be split into a FTBFS bug and a security one
[15:21] <juliank> Left the bug :)
[15:26] <juliank> So what's the conclusion on the apt-xapian-index one?
[15:26] <juliank> where does the crash even happen?
[15:26] <bdmurray> I think we should add a quirk to stop the service from running during the upgrade.
[15:26] <bdmurray> It happens during a dist-upgrade of Kubuntu.
[15:27] <juliank> We probably should have a quirk to inhibit all systemd timers and cron jobs
[15:27] <juliank> Probably should add a feature to systemd to actually inhibit timers
[15:27] <juliank> But that'S 25.04 talk
[15:28] <mkukri> cant something like this also happen if an already running service pulls in new stuff dynamically?
[15:28] <juliank> sure
[15:29] <juliank> Possibly atomic A/B upgrades are also a topic for 25.04
[15:29] <juliank> But need cooperating file system with snapshots
[15:30] <juliank> And figuring out how to upgrade snaps inside the new target
[15:30] <schopin> 25.04 we said, juliank, not right now ;)
[15:30] <bdmurray> time is short
[15:30] <juliank> heh
[15:30] <juliank> #topic Team proposed-migration report
[15:30] <juliank> #link https://ubuntu-archive-team.ubuntu.com/proposed-migration/update_excuses_by_team.html#foundations-bugs
[15:31] <juliank> I don't really want to assign anything particularly much, there's so much flux and it's hard to figure out what is not time_t and we should work on time_t first anyhow?
[15:32] <juliank> Well we can assign any non-armhf failures
[15:32] <juliank> Because they block progress and are clearly not time_t armhf bugs ;)
[15:33]  * juliank finds last week's assignments
[15:34] <juliank> Apparently Skia is still on libbsd migration but only one armhf task left hooray
[15:34] <Skia> yes, and it should probably be done shortly after the gvmd upload from this afternoon
[15:35] <juliank> libapt-pkg-perl
[15:36] <juliank> liushuyu: bdrung - supposed to have freetype but that seems cleared?
[15:36] <juliank> sigh
[15:36] <juliank> libapt-pkg-perl: bdrung? you're supposed to have freetype but that seems cleared?
[15:36] <ginggs> i had libapt-pkg-perl the previous week
[15:37] <bdrung> juliank, i'll be on vacation next week. so please skip me.
[15:37] <juliank> ok
[15:37] <ginggs> i sync'd the fix from debian, just waiting for tests
[15:37] <juliank> ginggs: There is no libapt-pkg assignment in the epic from last week
[15:37] <juliank> but good
[15:37] <ginggs> previous week
[15:38] <juliank> ack
[15:38] <juliank> python-apt is mine
[15:39] <juliank> waiting for tests I suppose
[15:39] <juliank> I don't see my test requests on the package page but I did them
[15:39] <juliank> will check /running later
[15:40] <juliank> apt vs xz-utils is with upils
[15:40] <upils> well, this is a time_t related issue AFAIU
[15:41] <upils> so I cannot really do anything about it except waiting for the -all-proposed run, no?
[15:41] <juliank> if you queued one then yeah
[15:41] <adrien_web> I did: they're not helpful
[15:41] <juliank> libtirpc was with liushuyu, there are no failures, but it doesn't migrate; someone to dig at update_output.txt?
[15:41] <upils> I did but It may have been lost at some point, I will check again
[15:41] <juliank> possibly needs hinting
[15:42] <adrien_web> Britney lags but updated an hour ago luckily
[15:43] <liushuyu> juliank: libtirpc is still waiting on the excuses to update (the last test just passed several hours ago)
[15:43] <juliank> no
[15:44] <juliank> hmm
[15:44] <juliank> maybe yes but excuses by teams doesn't show
[15:44] <liushuyu> "Migration status for libtirpc (1.3.4+ds-1build1 to 1.3.4+ds-1.1): Waiting for test results, another package or too young (no action required now - check later)"
[15:44] <juliank> ok
[15:44]  * adrien_web only looks at not by team
[15:44] <juliank> libuv1 is with mwhudson
[15:44] <juliank> adrien_web: heh but we need to look at by team one here
[15:45] <juliank> xz-utils is still with zhsj waiting for tests to run I suppose
[15:45] <adrien_web> I did retries for it, i think they're maybe all good now
[15:45] <adrien_web> For libuv
[15:45] <juliank> optipng is with bdmurray still
[15:46] <juliank> slang2 is with  tim andersson whatever his handle is, I don't know right know :)
[15:46] <adrien_web> juliank: yeah; I wanted to give more context to what I say
[15:46] <juliank> nfs-utils is with danilogondolfo still
[15:46] <Skia> andersson123, usually, but he's not online right now it seems
[15:47] <juliank> fwupd vs libmbim is with pushkarnk
[15:47] <pushkarnk> fwupd - waiting for results on amd64/armhf, tests pass locally. Failures on s390x need some investigation
[15:47] <juliank> This really should unlock all the fwupd vs *
[15:49] <pushkarnk> (actually, I can't repro the fwupd test failures on s390x locally, the tests seem to pass)
[15:49] <juliank> glib2.0 blocking *: waveform
[15:49] <waveform> ack
[15:50] <juliank> Let's skip a couple which only fail on armhf and get more interesting one
[15:50] <bdmurray> In the past there were network issues with fwupd
[15:50] <juliank> babeltrace is blocked by ceph, but due to dependency issues, but on amd64!
[15:50] <pushkarnk> bdmurray: ack, will check from that angle
[15:51] <juliank> babeltrace: dviererbe (previous week assignment seems solved)
[15:52] <bdmurray> being more specific issues with fwupd trying to access external resources
[15:52] <dviererbe> nice, but I did nothing
[15:52] <juliank> debhelper: Skia you wanna take those?
[15:52] <Skia> sure
[15:52] <juliank> It's 6 packages failing but hmm
[15:53] <juliank> dwz ginggs
[15:53] <ginggs> ack
[15:53] <juliank> libnsl slyon
[15:54] <slyon> ok
[15:54] <juliank> gdbm itself: mkukri
[15:54] <mkukri> ack
[15:55] <juliank> file, primarily non-armhf ones: mateus-morais
[15:55] <mateus-morais> juliank: ack
[15:57] <juliank> zlib has a bunch of dependency issues across non-armhf architectures: pushkarnk (please ping if you need assistance)
[15:58] <pushkarnk> ack
[15:58] <juliank> zlib non-armhf ones: schopin
[15:58] <schopin> isn't it what you just assigned?
[15:58] <juliank> oops
[15:59] <juliank> Let me wait until I find a bigger one for you
[15:59] <schopin> erm... OK?
[15:59] <juliank> gsasl blocking iproute2: liushuyu
[15:59] <liushuyu> juliank: okay
[16:00] <juliank> initramfs-tools: So bdrung wants none, so maybe schopin wants that one
[16:00] <juliank> It's s390x!
[16:00] <bdrung> i'll take care of initramfs-tools
[16:01] <bdrung> all those failures should be fixed with the latest uploads
[16:02] <juliank> libpng1.6: schopin
[16:02] <juliank> but like maybe focus on the one arm64
[16:02] <juliank> and the i386
[16:02]  * schopin looks around for someone else to jump in.
[16:02] <schopin> ACK.
[16:02] <juliank> python-click ogayot
[16:03] <juliank> (again the non-armhf ones)
[16:03] <juliank> libcgi-pm-perl i386: spyros
[16:04] <juliank> libclass-xsaccessor-perl non-armhf: vpa1977
[16:05] <juliank> libdbi-perl non-armhf: adrien_web
[16:05] <juliank> libemail-address-xs-perl non-armhf chriscoulson
[16:05] <juliank> doko and vorlon get to do time_t only
[16:06] <juliank> uh I think let's leave it here
[16:07] <juliank> #topic AOB
[16:08] <bdmurray> I'll be out on Monday.
[16:08] <pushkarnk> The next week is going to be a short one for me (two public holidays - Monday and Friday)
[16:12] <juliank> #endmeeting
[16:12] <meetingology> Meeting ended at 16:12:30 UTC.  Minutes at https://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2024/ubuntu-meeting.2024-03-21-15.03.moin.txt


[01:23] <nigelb> I'll be talking to dholbach later today to make a list of things-to-do before Patch Day.
[01:45] <nigelb> persia, due to the overwhelming lack of participation for review leads, I guess we'll both have to fill up the remaining hours :/
[01:45] <persia> Fine by me :)
[01:45] <nigelb> I'll make a last ditch recruitment effort on the last week of the month
[01:46] <nigelb> if that doesn't work, bunk work, and live in front of the computer for 49 hours
[01:58] <ajmitch> nigelb: that sounds like a fun option, be sure to have plenty of caffeine on hand
[01:59] <nigelb> ajmitch, that was just an exaggeration.  I'll probably do only 8 hours at a time
[02:00] <ajmitch> 8 hours on, sleep for 1 hour, back to the computer?
[02:00] <nigelb> ajmitch, persia will be around too :)
[02:01]  * ajmitch would help out if he knew what he was doing :)
[02:01] <nigelb> oh yaay!
[02:01] <nigelb> you need to know https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReviewersTeam/GettingInvolved
[02:02] <nigelb> you need to know how bug (and patch) upstreaming and ubuntu development (making debdiff, etc)
[02:02] <nigelb> If you do, please sign up https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PatchDay
[02:03] <ajmitch> yeah, it's the more recent things like working with bzr branches that I need to read up on
[02:04] <ajmitch> it'd be over a thursday/friday for me
[02:04]  * ajmitch wonders if someone will make up some greasemonkey scripts for handling these tags
[02:04] <ajmitch> anyway, must go out for lunch, back soon
[08:22] <dholbach> good morning
[12:26] <nigelb> dholbach, in another 1.5 hours?
[12:27] <ibuclaw> hey nigelb - what's up?
[12:27] <nigelb> heya ibuclaw :)
[12:28] <hyperair> 1.5h? what's going on?
[12:28] <nigelb> hyperair, call
[12:28] <hyperair> nigelb: call?
[12:29] <nigelb> hyperair, yeah
[12:29]  * hyperair doesn't understand
[12:29] <nigelb> call, skype, talk
[12:29] <hyperair> oh that
[12:30] <ibuclaw> nigelb, ooh, fun times
[12:30]  * ibuclaw is on the pcmanfm changelog yay!
[12:30] <nigelb> ibuclaw, oooh
[12:31] <ibuclaw> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pcmanfm/0.5.2+svn20091029-1ubuntu3
[12:32] <ibuclaw> not sure if it is in the main repos yet.
[12:33] <nigelb> ibuclaw, http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/universe/p/pcmanfm/pcmanfm_0.5.2+svn20091029-1ubuntu3/changelog
[12:33] <nigelb> Iain Bucław?
[12:33] <ibuclaw> yepo =)
[12:34] <ibuclaw> shame that one polish character isn't ascii
[12:34] <nigelb> heh
[12:35] <ibuclaw> have been using just plain 'Buclaw' for the updates I push for gdc
[12:36] <ibuclaw> nigelb, http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/universe/g/gdc-4.3/gdc-4.3_1.046-4.3.4-3ubuntu1/changelog
[12:37] <nigelb> w00t w00t lots of gdc entries :)
[12:38] <ibuclaw> lots of work have been put into it. =)
[12:38] <ibuclaw> nigelb, afterall ... I *am* the maintainer of the package.
[12:38] <nigelb> 0_0
[12:42] <ibuclaw> nigelb, http://packages.qa.debian.org/g/gdc-4.3.html
[12:42] <\vish> heya , who's up for making a depdiff of this > http://bugzilla-attachments.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=136114
[12:42] <\vish> its for a bug in the review list for Bug #111939
[12:42] <ubot3> Malone bug 111939 in metacity "Not possible to alt-tab during a drag-and-drop operation" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/111939
[12:42] <nigelb> ibuclaw, wow :)
[12:42] <nigelb> \vish, I can make a debdiff (I made once) can test?
[12:43]  * nigelb did ask \vish to test some time back too!
[12:43] <\vish> nigelb:  test ? how?
[12:43] <nigelb> \vish, I'll push it onto a ppa and you have to update your metacity to that one
[12:43] <ibuclaw> nigelb, don't ask how it happened ... I just asked nhandler and he suggested that I email doko about it. One thing led to another and he is now sponsoring me (or keeping a watchful eye, I'm not sure which)
[12:43] <\vish> ah righto..
[12:44] <nigelb> ibuclaw, its so totally totally cool :)
[12:44] <nigelb> \vish, 20 mins tops
[12:44] <\vish> bah everything is a bit of a mess in my system , there is a memory swap leak and i'm not able to do things :s
[12:44] <\vish> nigelb: neat
[12:49] <dholbach> nigelb: yep
[12:50] <nigelb> dholbach, :)
[12:57] <nhandler> ibuclaw: I'm glad to see that worked out for you
[12:59] <nigelb> bdrung, thank you :)
[12:59] <nigelb> re: patch day
[12:59] <bdrung> you're welcome :)
[13:16] <\vish> nigelbabu: hmm , i think bdrung had commented for a debdiff a long time ... we[I] could have done that a long time ago :s
[13:16] <\vish> done the testing i mean ;p
[13:17] <bdrung> \vish: which bug?
[13:17] <\vish> bdmurray:  Bug #111939
[13:17] <ubot3> Malone bug 111939 in metacity "Not possible to alt-tab during a drag-and-drop operation" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/111939
[13:17] <\vish> oops bdrung ^
[13:18] <\vish> bdrung: seems nigelbabu had the debdiff done a while back and was just waiting for testing
[13:19] <bdrung> oh
[13:21] <nigelbabu> \vish, I did a debdiff some time back
[13:21] <nigelbabu> but the package got updated
[13:38] <nigelbabu> vish, thank you.  the \ was getting tough
[13:39] <vish> nigelbabu: damn! will change back ;p
[13:39] <vish> some problem with nm , keeps dropping my signal :s
[13:40] <nigelbabu> its going to rain cats and dogs out here.  I hope power doesn't go out
[13:41] <nigelbabu> vish, do you have FFE for this?
[13:42] <vish> nigelbabu: i dont think we need an FFE for that , probably a stable release update will do
[13:42] <nigelbabu> vish, we do, its not a bug fix
[13:43] <vish> nigelbabu: i would consider it a bug though.. ;)
[13:44] <vish> nigelbabu: anyway , irrespective of when it is getting fixed , we need a debdiff ;)
[13:44] <nigelbabu> true.  getting
[14:19] <nigelbabu> that was a productive talk :)
[14:30] <vish> ^ cjohnston in a timemachine  ;p ?
[14:30] <cjohnston> lol
[14:30] <cjohnston> setting it up so its ready
[14:30] <vish> cjohnston: you are at the hotel now getting it ready or.. just setting the nick?
[14:31] <cjohnston> just the nick...
[14:31] <cjohnston> I'm in ~50 channels on this connection.. so im setting up another irssi for uds
[14:31] <cjohnston> make it a little easier
[14:34] <cjohnston> im trying to figure out how i set this one up tho to match it.. easier said than done
[15:24] <nigelbabu> vish, built on ppa.  pleaes test and let me know
[15:38] <vish> hmm , let me restart session
[15:38]  * vish brb
[15:40] <nigelbabu> vish, works?
[15:41] <vish> nigelbabu: oddly no :(  did it work for you on karmic?
[15:41] <nigelbabu> I didn't test on karmic
[15:41] <vish> i still can alt+tab while dragging
[15:41] <vish> cant*
[15:41] <nigelbabu> strange
[15:41] <nigelbabu> sure you have the PPA version installed?
[15:42] <vish> nigelbabu: it was only metacity and metacity common right?
[15:42] <nigelbabu> yeah
[15:44] <vish> hmm , wait there is libmetacity-private0 , installed that one too , let me try a session restart
[15:46] <vish> nigelbabu: no go :(
[15:46] <nigelbabu> aw :(
[15:47] <vish> odd that mclasen mentions it works perfectly in fedora :s
[15:47] <nigelbabu> yeah, extremely :)
[15:47] <vish> heh , lets blame sabdfl on this one too ;p
[15:47] <nigelbabu> lol
[15:48] <vish> nigelbabu: check if it works in karmic..
[15:48] <nigelbabu> vish, checking
[15:50] <keffie_jayx> hey nigelbabu, just read dholbach post
[15:50]  * vish brb
[15:50] <nigelbabu> keffie_jayx, great, so you want to help us reviewing and also translating right?
[15:50] <keffie_jayx> I have only done one review but the process is quite simple. Can one help out after the 5th of may ?
[15:50] <keffie_jayx> sure
[15:51] <nigelbabu> keffie_jayx, you can help out at any point. the 5th may is only a day to get lots of people engaged.
[15:51] <nigelbabu> I hope to have everyone review at least one patch per day :)
[15:52] <nigelbabu> keffie_jayx, you want to translate immediately or after May 5?
[15:52] <keffie_jayx> great. I am getting some of the people in my city going with the little things I know about ubuntu development and patch reviewing has been suggested as a simple starting point
[15:52] <keffie_jayx> nigelbabu: I could help now
[15:52] <dholbach> keffie_jayx: nigelbabu and I were hoping to factor in some feedback into the page before may 5th, so it might make sense to have a look at the page again closer to the time
[15:52] <nigelbabu> that's great.  I've been hoping to have patch review be the simple start point
[15:53] <dholbach> but I epxect "just additions" like more examples and stuff
[15:53] <nigelbabu> keffie_jayx, if you're starting now, just be subscribed to the page, so you can be alerted when we make changes
[15:53] <dholbach> this is going to be awesome
[15:53] <dholbach> I just know it
[15:54] <keffie_jayx> ok
[15:54] <nigelbabu> keffie_jayx, thank you for helping.  any help at any point, let me know.  will be glad to help :)
[15:54] <keffie_jayx> let me subscribe to the wiki and also see if I can remember some of the process
[15:54] <qense> dholbach: Will Mergimus be discussed during the UDS? I'm attending and I saw you have two blueprints on the patch review initiative. I've offered nigelbabu my help with writing Mergimus and I was wondering what session would be best for me to attend.
[15:55] <nigelbabu> keffie_jayx, also, any feedback on the process is very much welcome :)
[15:55] <dholbach> qense: Mergimus is no requirement for following the process outlined on the wiki
[15:56] <keffie_jayx> nigelbabu: the process intends to be simple, However, Ihave a knack for running into brickwalls ... ain't that right dholbach?
[15:56] <dholbach> qense: but we can sure discuss it
[15:56]  * dholbach hugs keffie_jayx
[15:56] <keffie_jayx> nigelbabu: will do
[15:56] <nigelbabu> Awesome!  Thank you.
[15:57] <qense> dholbach: OK. I'll see it then.
[15:57] <qense> There is already some code, but it doesn't do much yet. :)
[15:57] <dholbach> qense: right
[15:57] <nigelbabu> vish, ahhh
[15:57] <nigelbabu> vish, compiz is our default.  Did you change to metacity
[15:57] <dholbach> if mergimus can make the task of getting the source, applying the patch correctly, etc etc it can be part of the task
[15:58] <dholbach> the thing is that the process requires the web browser too (upstream bug trackers, adding tags to LP, etc.)
[15:58] <dholbach> so I dunno yet
[15:58] <dholbach> but sounds like a good idea to discuss
[15:58] <qense> At the moment it can get an authenticated launchpad object, display an empty notebook with two tabs and a TreeView where you can add the names of valid packages!
[15:59] <keffie_jayx> nigelbabu: I remember the only patch I ever did was not resolved. I tried the patch and it worked. since upstream wouldn't pick it up. i believe that was that
[15:59] <qense> and it has translation support, which is pretty pointless at the moment. But you can translate it already! :P
[15:59] <keffie_jayx> nigelbabu: I guess I was expecting some kind of completion.
[15:59] <nigelbabu> keffie_jayx, generally, we forward patches to upstream and hear their comments
[16:00] <nigelbabu> if upstream refuses, its upto debian maintainer/ubuntu maintainer (if any) to make a call
[16:00] <keffie_jayx> nigelbabu: I did that, and upstream seems to have abandomed the app imho
[16:00] <nigelbabu> keffie_jayx, ah.  In that case, you can look at changelog and see who upload and get in touch with that person
[16:00] <keffie_jayx> the bugis also in debian and no call from them either
[16:01] <nigelbabu> what package?
[16:01] <keffie_jayx> tsclient
[16:01]  * keffie_jayx fetches for the bug
[16:03] <vish> nigelbabu: just what i was thinking when i was away :D , gonna test that
[16:03] <nigelbabu> vish, I remembered when didrocks told me :)
[16:05] <vish> !test
[16:05] <ubot3> hrm?
[16:06] <keffie_jayx> nigelbabu:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tsclient/+bug/63412
[16:06] <ubot3> Malone bug 63412 in tsclient "Few resolution options" [Wishlist,New]
[16:06] <keffie_jayx> nigelbabu:  it is also an app that at the time was in main, so I guess the desktop team had to decide on it.
[16:07] <vish> nigelbabu: yay , works with metacity..
[16:07] <nigelbabu> keffie_jayx, when patching something under desktop team.  the easy way is check with them :)
[16:07] <vish> but noticed what didrocks mentioned
[16:08] <nigelbabu> vish, that is for poppler bug
[16:08] <vish> ah..
[16:19] <keffie_jayx> nigelbabu:  the status of the bug is still new... after 3 years should I mark it as triaged at least?
[16:20] <nigelbabu> vish, can you look into the ^ bug? (I'm hunting through fedora cvs)
[16:20] <vish> keffie_jayx: if the bug has enough info , btw bug# ?
[16:20] <keffie_jayx> vish:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tsclient/+bug/63412
[16:20] <ubot3> Malone bug 63412 in tsclient "Few resolution options" [Wishlist,New]
[16:21] <keffie_jayx> it has quite a few comments
[16:25] <vish> keffie_jayx: yup that can be set to triaged..
[16:25] <vish> sad that upstream hasnt commented on the patch though ..
[16:26] <vish> keffie_jayx: any reason you changed the bug from confirmed -> new?
[16:27] <keffie_jayx> honestly I can't remember doing that
[16:27] <keffie_jayx> it's been a while, confirmed is the right status then?
[16:28] <vish> keffie_jayx: triaged would be better
[16:28] <keffie_jayx> vish: the app has a devel branch that does not see activity for more than 2 years. Fedora already ships the latest code from them. shouldn't a package upgrade be an option here?
[16:30] <nigelbabu> vish, how on earth are we supposed to make sense of fedora CVS?
[16:30] <vish> keffie_jayx: i didnt understand , what you said..
[16:31] <vish> nigelbabu: hehe , dont know :D , i never looked at fedora bugs ;)  try google
[16:32] <nigelbabu> vish, no no, I'm looking for the commit
[16:32] <vish> nigelbabu: try the bug first , it would probably have a link
[16:32] <keffie_jayx> vish: the patch is for a stable version of tclient, however there is a newer version, and debian has a bug indicating an update. http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=530953
[16:32] <ubot3> Debian bug 530953 in tsclient "New version available: tsclient" [Wishlist,Open]
[16:33] <keffie_jayx> vish:  and that would be desktop teams call I guess
[16:34] <nigelbabu> keffie_jayx, can you ask lool about this?  he's part of the debian gnome team that takes care of this
[16:34] <vish> keffie_jayx: yeah , not really a review team matter , pitti has already commented on the bug , it is more of a Main sponsors issue now
[16:35] <keffie_jayx> vish: good then...
[16:35] <keffie_jayx> dholbach: harvest tricked me...
[16:35]  * keffie_jayx runs
[16:35] <dholbach> keffie_jayx: I hope we get the new version online soon
[16:41] <nigelbabu> keffie_jayx, pitti summarises what I feel about the patch too.
[16:41] <nigelbabu> The patch is so big, we'd generally leave it to upstream to take care of it.  Asking debian folks is a good idea too.  Open bug in Debian BTS with patch and see what happens
[16:54] <nigelbabu> james_w, you're james-w at ubuntu dot com?
[16:57] <james_w> james.westby
[16:57] <nigelbabu> ha, thank you :)
[17:23] <nigelbabu> dholbach, when you're fee just let me know
[17:23] <dholbach> nigelbabu: I am
[17:23] <nigelbabu> dholbach, ok, so the mail should have info about monday and review of wiki.  anything else?
[17:25] <dholbach> nigelbabu: sounds good to me
[17:25] <nigelbabu> :)
[17:30] <nigelbabu> sent :)


[08:08] <czajkowski> aloha
[08:23] <AlanBell> morning
[08:23] <czajkowski> AlanBell: hows you
[08:32] <AlanBell> kids left for school, silence achieved
[08:33] <christel> good morning
[08:34] <AlanBell> morning, we will have to reschedule the farnham pub crawl
[08:37] <christel> we will!
[08:37] <christel> how long is gordon down for? and will he be popping by before heading back to scotland?
[08:41] <AlanBell> think he is going back today, he wasn't sure if he could escape from London
[08:54] <knightwise> hey guys
[08:54] <knightwise> how are you today
[08:55] <popey> morning
[08:56] <knightwise> hey popey :)
[08:57] <MooDoo> hay all
[08:57] <christel> AlanBell: aha!
[08:57] <christel> well, i am still up for pubcrawling sometime
[08:57] <christel> maybe we can drag some other people over here if we plan it slightly further in advance
[08:58] <christel> how about sometime between christmas and new years, when we're all sick of spending time with family ;)
[09:01] <MooDoo> sick of family?  at christmas?  Are you mad christel ? ;) lol
[09:01] <christel> :P
[09:02] <christel> we're spending christmas proper with the in-laws, who are lovely, but they're also very .. er, uhm.. they're very Prim and Proper
[09:02] <AlanBell> 25th?
[09:02] <christel> AlanBell: haha <3
[09:03]  * czajkowski hugs christel
[09:03]  * AlanBell wonders when czajkowski returns from the emerald city?
[09:04] <czajkowski> 27th
[09:04] <czajkowski> then am heading down south on the 30-31st
[09:05] <christel> czajkowski: well then how do you feel about a farnham pubcrawl on the 28th then? you may have your old room if you fancy staying over
[09:06] <MooDoo> wow how come the uk meeting is so early?
[09:06] <AlanBell> MooDoo: to inject a little variety into your life
[09:06] <christel> MooDoo: to confuse you! nah, i think the idea is to see if we can attract more people in the middle of the day as few people are able to make the evening ones
[09:06] <czajkowski> christel: oh maybe. Not sure what the plans are given house move beore xmas and coming back to boxes.
[09:06] <MooDoo> spicey
[09:09] <DJones> Morning
[09:09] <christel> morning DJones :)
[09:09] <DJones> Hi christel
[09:09] <christel> MooDoo: where in the world are you? are you Too Far Away to join us for Christmas tomfoolery?
[09:12] <AlanBell> so where is the next point on the happy hour tour?
[09:12] <AlanBell> Southampton? Newcastle? somewhere else?
[09:13] <MooDoo> christel: i'm in nottingham, but i have a 3 months old, wifey would string me up if i came down between christmas and new year :D
[09:13] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[09:13] <AlanBell> Wolverhampton?
[09:16] <bigcalm> AlanBell: if you're coming up, sounds like a good idea :)
[09:17] <AlanBell> me? north of Watford Gap?
[09:18] <bigcalm> Is that the mark of a true southener?
[09:20] <bigcalm> It still throws me when a friend in Brighton calls me a northener
[09:20] <bigcalm> It's one or the other eh? No midlandser?
[09:21] <AlanBell> sounds fair :)
[09:21] <AlanBell> anyhow, do you want to pick a day in January and a pub and we can add wolves to the list of places?
[09:23] <bigcalm> I know nothing of Wolves. davmor2, mrevell, aquarius are the people to ask :)
[09:27]  * TheOpenSourcerer is going to Stourbridge tomorrow. ~250m round trip.
[09:35] <MartijnVdS> only 250 meters? I'd walk ;)
[09:36] <TheOpenSourcerer> I wish MartijnVdS
[09:36] <TheOpenSourcerer> Likely to be ~3hrs each way
[09:36] <TheOpenSourcerer> Or more likely 2 hrs there and 4hrs back (friday evening) :-(
[09:37] <MartijnVdS> ugh.. >2 hours of driving on a single day makes me all weird
[09:37] <MartijnVdS> sort of sleepy/exhausted but with the alertness of adrenalin in the mix.
[09:38] <bigcalm> Helps to stop now and then
[09:39] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: note that I'm ~1.5 hours away from either Germany or Belgium -- it's hard to drive >2 hours and not end up in another country
[09:41] <bigcalm> Hehe
[09:41] <bigcalm> Tricky
[09:42] <MartijnVdS> FOSDEM will be a 2 hour drive
[09:43] <mattt> i gave up complaining about driving, my colleagues in texas can drive 4-6 hours and still be in texas :)
[09:44] <MartijnVdS> Aww
[09:44] <MartijnVdS> imagine driving for 6 hours and STILL being in Texas
[09:45] <AlanBell> I used to have a car like that
[09:45] <bigcalm> Heh
[09:46] <gord> back in dallas, i remember we drove for about two hours to a friends house, we were *still* in dallas
[09:47] <oimon> in london i can drive for 2 hours and be 8 miles down the road
[09:47] <MartijnVdS> oimon: Speed devil!
[09:47] <oimon> 84 sets of traffic lights later...
[09:49] <JamesTait> Oh, um, good morning all. :)
[09:49] <mattt> gord: shoulda flied!
[09:54] <monsterwizard> Asm86 D:
[10:14] <TheOpenSourcerer> 4mth web dev contract position up for grabs if anyone interested: http://www.paramountdigitalmarketing.com/job-opportunity.html
[10:16] <davmor2> morning all
[10:16] <davmor2> czajkowski: PROD!!!!! well I'm getting in the Christmas spirit of giving :D
[10:18] <bigcalm> Hi davmor2
[10:19] <MooDoo> morning davmor2
[10:19] <bigcalm> What else can you give?
[10:21] <davmor2> bigcalm, gord: confirmation of the 26th of jan for the next workspace day :)
[10:21] <gord> whoop
[10:21] <bigcalm> Ta
[10:24] <davmor2> bigcalm: see I just give and give and give until it hurts ;)
[10:25] <bigcalm> o.O
[10:26] <gord> maybe you shouldn't give that much then
[10:42] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[10:45] <popey> hi
[10:45] <dogmatic69> o/
[10:46] <brobostigon> hi popey and dogmatic69
[10:47] <davmor2> gord: to be honest it only hurts my finger from prodding czajkowski
[10:56] <andylockran> popey: my spotify is dead :(
[10:58] <czajkowski> davmor2: Good morning
[10:59]  * popey points andylockran at #spotify
[11:00] <MooDoo> czajkowski: davmor2 morning sir, ma'am :)
[11:00] <davmor2> czajkowski: Morning how's life down souff
[11:00] <czajkowski> MooDoo: well hello there
[11:00] <czajkowski> davmor2: Fantastic
[11:00] <davmor2> MooDoo: Morning me owld Mucka how's life up and right a bit?
[11:01] <andylockran> popey: ta :D
[11:02] <MooDoo> davmor2: i've a grin on my face that's a mile wide
[11:10] <Gargoyle> Morning all!
[11:11] <Gargoyle> Can anyone confirm the correct way to get apache to create files (uploaded via site / cache files created by php, etc) to have -rw-rw--- and not -rw------- ? I have tried setting umask 0002 in /etc/apache/envvars
[11:17] <dogmatic69> Gargoyle: -rw------ should work fine
[11:18] <Gargoyle> dogmatic69: Not if I want the group to read and write the files!
[11:18] <davmor2> MooDoo: Put czajkowski down you don't know where she's been
[11:22] <MooDoo> davmor2: i should be so lucky ;)
[11:23] <davmor2> MooDoo: So let me guess you're on holiday or you got a new job ;)
[11:25] <MooDoo> davmor2: nope, parents are getting me a new camera for christmas
[11:26] <davmor2> MooDoo: Man I thought it was something life changing ;)
[11:27] <MooDoo> davmor2: it is, believe me :)
[11:27] <dogmatic69> Gargoyle: its its chowned to apache who else needs to read it?
[11:28] <Gargoyle> dogmatic69: The user that is running cron / backup tasks
[11:29] <dogmatic69> !tell Gargoyle about php chmod
[11:29] <davmor2> MooDoo: hence the smiley wink :D  /me waits for the joker in the family to wrap one of those throw away cameras in the camera box with a note saying it did so much we thought you'd prefer this instead
[11:30] <dogmatic69> wrong channel for tells :/
[11:30] <dogmatic69> d
 MooDoo:
[11:30] <dogmatic69> http://php.net/manual/en/function.chmod.php
[11:30] <dogmatic69> Gargoyle: ^
[11:31] <Gargoyle> dogmatic69: I am aware of chmod, I want this to be the default for apache and not going round changing every bit of PHP code that writes files
[11:31] <MooDoo> davmor2: yeah :D lol
[11:31] <dogmatic69> Gargoyle: you should really only have one bit of code writing files, DRY
[11:32] <Gargoyle> dogmatic69: You're under some illusion that I only have 1 application?
[11:32] <dogmatic69> i am under the impression that your code is not DRY
[11:33] <Gargoyle> dogmatic69: I didn't ask about coding standards! and most of it is not my code framework this and framework that!
[11:36] <monsterwizard> anyone know assembly?
[11:37] <monsterwizard> I can't figure out why mov esi, 0 is used in this program
[12:07] <oimon> anyone how how to boot a mac mini from usb stick?
[12:09] <andylockran> oimon: hold down cmd+alt during boot I think
[12:09] <andylockran> or cmd+c
[12:09] <andylockran> something like that
[12:09] <popey> i didnt think macs booted off usb
[12:09] <andylockran> then you get a choice of which disks to boot from
[12:09] <popey> unless the usb contained osx or other efi compliant thing
[12:09] <popey> andylockran: its alt
[12:09] <oimon> how do i install lion ? i have to boot to OSX?
[12:09] <popey> yeah, hold down alt
[12:09] <andylockran> oimon: it's just an 'app' from the app store
[12:09] <oimon> agh only 2 usb slots
[12:09] <oimon> i have it on usb
[12:10] <popey> andylockran: you can make a recovery image too on usb
[12:10] <andylockran> popey: ah, I did a boot from usb for time machine I think..
[12:11] <oimon> "youn cannot install lion because it is not supported on this system"
[12:11] <oimon> no reason why
[12:13] <oimon> discovered this machine is a powerpc :(
[12:13] <oimon> had it in my room 3years, never switched it on
[12:15] <directhex> pretty old mac, then
[12:15] <oimon> i guess
[12:16] <directhex> intel ones landed in 2006
[12:16]  * brobostigon would grab a debian powerpc cd.
[12:16] <oimon> guess i'll turn it off again
[12:16] <directhex> lion also needs 2GB RAM
[12:16] <directhex> had to do a ram upgrade on a mac mini yesterday for lion. yikes
[12:16] <oimon> i only needed to try some software out :(
[12:19] <oimon> everyone's complaining aabout lion being really buggy
[12:19] <popey> "everyone"
[12:20] <andylockran> I quite like it
[12:20] <popey> is that the same "everyone" who no longer use Ubuntu?
[12:20] <andylockran> not had any issues
[12:21] <deej1976> Has the 12pm ubuntu-uk-meeting been cancelled ?
[12:21] <oimon> everyone in my building who has lion
[12:21] <oimon> in the context of my job, that's everyone
[12:21] <oimon> wifi issues, printing fail, and networking issues
[12:22] <andylockran> the only issue I've had, is that I sometimes get wifi timeouts
[12:23] <andylockran> but that's sporadically, and a reboot (~20 seconds) sorts that out
[12:23] <andylockran> SSD FTW
[12:23] <oimon> can't connect to certain wifi SSID, cannot even see another one, while under the AP
[12:23] <oimon> other people having disconnect issues, and also one guy claims it takes 30 mins to connect
[13:07] <deej1976> Anyone seen AlanBell this morning?
[13:07] <AlanBell> I saw him somewhere
[13:07] <brobostigon> lol
[13:07] <deej1976> AlanBell: Not in ubuntu-uk-meeting though
[13:08] <bigcalm> :)
[13:08] <AlanBell> ooooh crap
[13:08] <davmor2> deej1976: I'm pretty sure I've seen his nick around today
[13:08] <bigcalm> AlanBell: I forgot as well
[13:08] <deej1976> !language | AlanBell
[13:08] <deej1976> :D
[13:08]  * Mez sighs
[13:09] <AlanBell> ok, lets do the meeting
[13:09] <Mez> have to create a backport to intrepid/jaunty
[13:09] <AlanBell> in #ubuntu-uk-meeting right nowish
[13:11] <gord> wish humble bundle just ran their own ppa
[13:11] <gord> or something
[13:14] <gord> geez, even the deb files bundle their own libraries, had to remove the sdl library they bundle because it doesn't work with pulseaudio...
[13:17] <AlanBell> dutchie: when do you return to the dreaming spires?
[13:31] <BigRedS> If I've an md array rebuilding, is there a way to ask it which device is being readded?
[13:33] <bigcalm> Everybody is going unicode crazy
[14:12] <danfish> my receptionists have Michael Buble Xmas album blaring out
[14:13]  * danfish tasers receptionists
[14:13] <MooDoo> danfish: bought it for the misses the other day :S
[14:13] <danfish> MooDoo: get earplugs or a vomit bag
[14:14] <MooDoo> both
[14:14] <brobostigon> atleast wizzard, is decent, that one dont bother me too much.
[14:16] <MooDoo> hammer fall :D
[14:23] <oimon> http://images.businessweek.com/cms/2011-11-30/etc_correlation50__01__960.jpg
[14:23] <oimon> :D
[14:43] <s-fox> Hello.
[14:48] <dutchie> AlanBell: 8th of Jan
[14:48] <dutchie> AlanBell: why>
[14:48] <dutchie> ?
[14:49] <AlanBell> possible oxford happy hour
[14:53] <dutchie> ah cool
[14:57] <andylockran> :D
[15:48] <danfish> IT'S CHRISTMAS!
[15:48] <danfish> sorry - Noddy Holder took over my nick for a minute
[15:51] <davmor2> danfish: liar
[15:53] <bigcalm> I wonder if he's living off of the royalties
[15:53] <danfish> davmor2: he's from your neck of the woods isn't he?
[15:54] <moreati> I believe his $appendage imprint is on the Broadstreet walk of fame
[15:54] <jutnux> \o everybody
[15:58] <davmor2> danfish: No he ai't He's from duggley
[16:14] <danfish> davmor2: The black coutreeeyyyy
[17:25] <BigRedS> I'm after an explanation of the Gnome3/gnome-session/unity architecture, anyone know of one? It's as a citation for "Gnome3 isn't broken by Untiy"
[17:25] <BigRedS> where, apparently "just install gnome-session" doesn't count
[17:26] <ali1234> nobody ever said it was
[17:28] <BigRedS> No, I'm arguing that Unity is basically an alternative to gnome-session, sat atop gnome3. Which is how I was lead to believe it worked.
[17:28] <BigRedS> In fact, is that how it works?
[17:28] <ali1234> it is in oneiric
[17:29] <BigRedS> yeah, that's the one I meant
[17:29] <ali1234> see, part of the gigantic mess that was the unity release was that in natty, unity ran on top of gnome 2
[17:29] <ali1234> and so installing gnome 3 on natty broke unity
[17:29] <ali1234> under oneiric, it is the other way around
[17:29] <ali1234> so installing gnome 2 on oneiric is problematic
[17:30] <BigRedS> Oh. no, I'm ignorning gnome2
[17:30] <ali1234> another side effect of this is that you can't install the unity from oneiric onto natty
[17:30] <ali1234> and the development model of unity makes backporting patches extremely difficult
[17:31] <BigRedS> Just that what's normally termed 'Gnome3' is actually Gnome3 running gnome-session, and Unity is Gnome 3 running Unity
[17:31] <ali1234> so the end result is that natty doesn't get unity fixes
[17:31] <ali1234> unity is unity running on whatever version of gtk the distro uses
[17:32] <davmor2> BigRedS: So gnome is made up of gdm, gnome shell, and the gnome apps.  Ubuntu is made up of lightdm, unity and the gnome apps  there are a few changes but on the whole that is it.
[17:33] <BigRedS> yeah, that's my understanding. I'm just trying to convince someone else, but he's got bored of the argument now. It's more the precise definition of 'gnome3' that we're arguing over I think
[17:34] <ali1234> it's a pointless argument anyway, as they both suck
[17:35] <ali1234> it's like saying "well if you don't like brussel sprout flavour ice cream you can just have cabbage flavour ice cream instead"
[17:36] <davmor2> BigRedS: so my description is about as basic as you can get but there are a load of other things that make up gnome 3
[17:37] <davmor2> BigRedS: We use most of them apart from gnome shell and gdm by all accounts
[17:37] <ali1234> gnome-shell is multiple different things
[17:38] <ali1234> the whole "but you can just install gnome-shell on ubuntu" is the argument people usually use when someone says they are dumping ubuntu because of unity
[17:38] <ali1234> and it's a stupid one
[17:39] <ali1234> here's why
[17:39] <BigRedS> no, it's not at all about dumping unity or gnome3
[17:39] <BigRedS> just how the thing works
[17:39] <ali1234> in a nutshell, you get a better experience if you use the same shell as the people developing the distro
[17:40] <ali1234> it's always been like that too
[17:40] <BigRedS> yeah, it's always the case that the distro is designed for its default
[17:40] <BigRedS> it'd be daft to not do that
[17:43] <popey> mmmm brussel sprout ice cream
[17:43] <popey> http://drool.popey.com/
[17:44] <Darael> How many of those d'you /have/ at the moment, anyway, popey?
[17:46] <danfish> popey: egg and bacon icecream yes, snail porridge yes, but brussel sprout ice cream...just think of the kids
[17:46] <MartijnVdS> Marmite ice cream?
[17:47]  * brobostigon requests whisky sorbet.
[17:47] <Darael> I know they make garlic ice cream.
[17:51] <danfish> oooh, nice http://www.geek.com/articles/chips/raspberry-pi-announces-the-gertboard-expansion-board-20111215/
[18:08] <locodir-user> hello
[18:08] <locodir-user> I have a problem installing ubuntu
[18:09] <locodir-user> it says "no root fie system is defined"
[18:09] <locodir-user> how can I install it?
[19:08] <daubers> evenng
[19:09] <mgdm>  Hi daubers
[19:11] <bigcalm> Yo ho ho
[19:11] <bigcalm> mgdm: marvel at my painful code :) https://github.com/bigcalm/Twitter-IRC-Gateway
[19:13] <mgdm> Hmmm, I can spot some probable E_NOTICEs...
[19:15] <mattt> bigcalm: TYPO!@
[19:15] <mattt> "leave <#channe>"
[19:15] <bigcalm> :O
[19:19] <MH0> bigcalm: A typo? Not as bad as some code i have written :3, Some code I write has the most ugliest code, long-way rounds and everything. Ugly coding ftw!
[19:21] <davmor2> Yeah but MH0 bigcalm is a wannabe perfectionist, it's like a crime to him :D
[19:22] <MH0> Well, then I suppose so :)
[19:24] <davmor2> comedy gold http://twitpic.com/7tm701
[19:25] <MartijnVdS> heh
[19:52]  * daubers sticks on generations
[20:06] <Laney> right
[20:06] <czajkowski> evening folks
[20:06] <Laney> present inspiration...
[20:06] <daubers> Laney: You can get me a kindle, that'll be fine :)
[20:07] <Laney> SOLD!
[20:17] <daubers> \o/
[22:01] <BigRedS> What's the current favourite for a really easy mailing list tool to plug in to postfix? Mailman? I'd like it running in about 20mins :)
[22:04] <gordonjcp> mailman *is* pretty easy
[22:04] <gordonjcp> horrible, but easy
[22:06] <jacobw> phplist
[22:08] <jacobw> oh
[22:08] <jacobw> for actual mailing lists?
[22:08] <jacobw> mailman :p
[22:44] <BigRedS> ah, whoops, got distracted
[22:44] <BigRedS> but mailman it is
[22:44] <BigRedS> That was my initial choice, then I realised I didn't know any others
[22:46] <mattt> the only thing is
[22:46] <mattt> mailman only takes about 2 mins to get going
[22:46] <mattt> at least, it does on RHEL
[22:50] <BigRedS> Ah yeah, iffy bit here might be my bodged virtual domain 'system'
[22:52] <BigRedS> Oh. That *was* easy
[22:52] <BigRedS> just stick the domain on the end of mydestination and it ignores the virtuals
[22:56] <mattt> yay
[23:02] <popey> yay, amy and rory are leaving dr who
[23:06] <czajkowski> whooooo best news today popey
[23:06]  * czajkowski hugs popey
[23:06] <popey> hmm?
[23:07] <labcoattech> hi all
[23:09] <popey> hello
[23:10] <labcoattech> can the grub bootloader be replaced with a gui
[23:11] <popey> no idea
[23:20] <BigRedS> I've seen someone demo a gui bootloader. where gui=clicky with a mouse
[23:20] <BigRedS> I'd argue that grub already is a gui
[23:20] <BigRedS> (when it's working)
[23:23] <labcoattech> tried to edit grub using Startup-Manager to make Windows 7 the default os but it didn't work
[23:30] <AlanBell> labcoattech: you might want to expand on what you did, and/or ask in #ubuntu, it is probably a bit late for the UK
[23:34] <directhex> labcoattech: i'm not aware of any modern mouse-enabled bootloaders
[23:45] <shauno> I've got a modern, mouse-enabled bootloader ;)
[23:46] <bigcalm> Boot camp?
[23:46] <shauno> yeah
[23:46] <bigcalm> Lucky guess
[23:46] <bigcalm> Sleep!
[23:46] <shauno> it's a little too modern in places.  like deciding that usb is "legacy".  but it's pointy/clicky/droolproof
[23:48] <directhex> i've never used boot camp - just refit
[23:49] <shauno> they're pretty much the same thing.  just different applications loaded on top of the same efi
[23:49] <shauno> just refit has a config file, whereas the stock has "my way or the highway"
[23:50] <shauno> but it doesn't actually add capability, because actual features depend on the efi itself.  so trying to boot mbr off usb is still near-on impossible :(


[03:12] <unixabg> apw: Please consider this patch for casper http://fyeox.com/downloads/casper.patch
[03:13] <unixabg> It takes advantage of the ability to mount multi-lower layers (I only tested with a couple) but it does work
[03:15] <unixabg> and I think is a good update to casper. I also tested a couple of installs, which the support of multiple .squashfs
[03:16] <unixabg> files does not appear to break normal installs. s/couple/couple of extra .squashfs files located along side
[03:16] <unixabg> the filesystem.squashfs inside casper dir.
[07:56] <memguy> O just got a way with pagemaps file to figure out what parts of memory attributes are set for pages and memory regions like mlocks , ...and many other memory things. And i have a way to determine all file locks so the last thing is a way to get the info from /proc for process locks or code locks or thread locks , mutex, semphores,  spinlocks ,..etc
[07:58] <memguy> I don't think it exists but i can definitely add a temp LKM to give me the extra task_struct substructure info for process locks, signal, syscalls, or any other thing i thing is missing . I think syscall and signal files are there though so maybe only locks
[18:18] <memguy> ok so initrd initramfs,...etc would be only need if the drivers are not compiled into the kernel. I.E initrd and other names for it is nothing more then a ramdisk that is initial mounted so that one can load the right LKM drivers to mount the real root file system that the /sbin/init is executed to kick off a usable OS.
[18:18] <memguy> But why does compiling in make the kernel bloaty ?
[18:19] <memguy> The other option is your using memory for a ramdisk and loading the drivers as LKM so how is that less bloaty
[18:20] <memguy> I get the purpose of a ramdisk like initrd , initramfs, squashfs (compressed version) ,..etc are useful if you want the OS not to uses any secondary storage but not for huge sizes increases
[18:22] <memguy> Also if one compiled the drivers needed like ext4 into the kernel all one would need i think would be to tell grub where  the kernel images is and then the kernel would do the rest as a single self contained application
[19:48] <infinity> memguy: Not everyone has the same computer or the same filesystem, etc.
[19:48] <infinity> memguy: Compiling in *all* the modules bloats the kernel immensely.
[19:50] <infinity> memguy: For your own personal builds, it's indeed plausible to build a monolithic kernel without any loadable modules, and you won't need an initrd if you don't need userspace tools (lvm, mdadm, luks, etc) to find and mount root.
[19:50] <memguy> yes but if you know the file system the kernel is going to be on then compiling that one file system driver into the kernel not as a Module M would not increase the size all that much. I am just saying if you already " know the filesystem its going to uses"
[19:51] <infinity> memguy: Like I said, for your own personal non-distro builds, that's fine.  Distro kernels can't make assumptions, so we opt for maximum flexibility with minimal footprint.
[19:52] <infinity> And it's not about what filesystem the kernel is on, grub handles that, it's about what filesystem root is.
[19:52] <infinity> And we don't tell people how they have to format root.
[19:52] <memguy> ok i get that but your assumption that LKM won't be available is wrong they will be after the  file system is mounted and chroot or pivot root occurs
[19:52] <infinity> The kernel modules live on the root filesystem.  You need modules to mount the root filesystem.  That's the whole point of the initrd.
[19:53] <Martiini> is there anyone here who works for ubuntu/canonical
[19:53] <memguy> then /sbin/init and onward if one has modprobe, insmod will beable to load LKM you just need the file system driver stuff built in
[19:54] <infinity> memguy: You're talking in circles here.  For *you*, that works.  For people with zfs, xfs, lvm, raid, etc, etc, it doesn't.  Not unless we build everything in.  Nevermind all the SCSI controllers and the like we need to build in to even find the disks.
[19:54] <infinity> memguy: Trust me, we didn't decide to have an initrd just cause it's hip and cool.
[19:54] <memguy> And i get that for a distro you don't want to assume ext4 but if you already know that then you should beable to get rid of initrd , initramfs, squashfs  , casper,,...etc
[19:55] <infinity> memguy: Even if we assume a filesystem and enforce that (which we won't), you're missing device drivers.
[19:55] <memguy> Ya so if your using that many layers up then i agree there would be alot of built in module that would bloat it i see now
[19:56] <memguy> zfs ,lvm,..etc
[19:56] <infinity> memguy: The bootloader loads the kernel and initrd using Very Slow BIOS/EFI/etc calls, then the kernel flips to protected mode and can't call back into that.  We need real drivers for every SCSI/ATA/etc device you may have your root disk on.
[19:57] <memguy> well not ever just the one your machine uses but for a general distro i get you cann't make that assumption
[19:57] <infinity> memguy: Better way to look at this.  Look at the size of your initramfs on disk.  If we built literally everything into the kernel to find every root, that's how much bigger your kernel would be, and that memory would never be freed.
[19:58] <infinity> memguy: Anyhow, like I said, for specific people and usecases, an initrd isn't necessary.  You're right.  But no point bringing it up in a distro kernel channel, where we absolutely need one.
[19:59] <memguy> Ok there reason why i asked is that with grub i after i compile the kernel and give it the initrd or ramdisk  path i get it kernel panicing cann't find initrd and the path is clearly correct
[19:59] <infinity> Martiini: Probably.  The general rule of public channels is "don't ask to ask, just ask".  That probably applies to what you're not asking.
[20:00] <infinity> memguy: I'd say the path clearly isn't correct, or it's not a valid ramdisk.
[20:01] <infinity> memguy: It's grub's job to load the initrd you ask for into RAM, then the kernel unpacks it and execs init from it, like it would any other root filesystem.
[20:01] <memguy> Maybe because i am using grub2 and i edit the config file directly like regular grub thats the issue i should rerun the grub programs
[20:01] <infinity> memguy: So, either it's broken, or you fed grub the wrong location.
[20:01] <memguy> to built the new menu item for the kernel
[20:01] <infinity> update-grub is generally how Ubuntu's grub2 likes to update itself.
[20:02] <memguy> I was pretty good with grub so maybe it was the grub2 changes that screwed things up.
[20:02] <Martiini> I've had this idea - makeing of device specific compiled kernels, similar to android kernels on phones - custom made made kernels for all laptops etc .. Is it possible
[20:02] <infinity> Martiini: It's not going to happen for the distro, no.
[20:03] <memguy> Also do you need a different initrd intramfs ,..etc for different kernel x86 or x64 or different arch's
[20:03] <infinity> Martiini: It's certainly "possible" to do yourself, but good luck QAing 200 kernels.
[20:03] <infinity> memguy: The initrd contains kernel modules matching your exact kernel, and userspace bits matching your root.  Extrapolate your answer from there.
[20:03] <Martiini> what if every distro would compile/download for each laptop/device specific kernel
[20:04] <infinity> Martiini: Then we'd have no way to support the result.
[20:04] <memguy> so you need a unquie initrd or ramdisk for each different kernel compiled
[20:04] <infinity> Martiini: Not sure why you think this would be any better than a generic kernel with a bunch of driver modules.
[20:05] <infinity> memguy: Yes.
[20:05] <memguy> Does it matter if the arch is the same but the version is different for the kernel?
[20:05] <Martiini> I just noticed that phones run faster with custom built kernels
[20:05] <infinity> memguy: It has to be exactly the same (or, to be fair, ABI compatible, but usually you break ABI when mangling a kernel build)
[20:06] <infinity> Martiini: Apples and oranges.  x86 laptops aren't ARM phones.
[20:06] <Martiini> yes
[20:07] <infinity> Martiini: And in the ARMv7 phone case, it's not that you *can* have a custom kernel, it's that you *must* have a custom kernel with the vendor's device-specific goop.
[20:07] <infinity> Martiini: A generic ARMv7 kernel that actually has all the right bits for 7 devices works great on those 7 devices and doesn't magically get faster if you drop support for 6 of them.
[20:07] <memguy> ok that is probably my issue and the fact i edit the configuration file that said don't edit this config file uses some grub2 utitlty program
[20:07] <infinity> (Gets a bit smaller, but not faster)
[20:08] <infinity> Martiini: Unless the way you're measuring "speed" is boot times.  Then, yes, a very generic kernel can take a second or three more to boot as it probes for hardware you don't have, etc.  But once it's running, it's just a tiny bit of wasted memory, and otherwise a non-issue.
[20:09] <memguy> but the path was correct probably not the correct path to the correct initrd maybe. Or the config if when editing but some char in that shouldn;t have been added
[20:09] <memguy> thanks
[20:09] <infinity> And given that, before Google started doing monthly updates, my phone had an uptime of 9 months (and how it's one month at a time), boot time seems irrelevant.
[20:24] <Martiini> ubuntu and archbang are fastest distros, but I guess it's not because of kernel
[22:08] <memguy> If i create another LKM since i am at the kernel level can i just read any memory location like if i open /dev/mem  will have have no access restrictions like i do in userspace programs with open /dev/mem
[22:08] <memguy> Or am i still going to get page fault or other errors if the page that i am reading isn't mapped
[22:10] <memguy> I know i am not making sense but what i mean to figure out is how /dev/mem is allowing one to read physical memory without virtual address
[22:11] <memguy> I guess i just want know is how /dev/mem read physical memory because everything to a program is virtual memory even at the kernel level once page tables/paging is setup for it
[22:12] <memguy> does the first bytes at offset zero of /dev/mem corrospond to the physical memory 0x0000000 onward... or does it corrospond to the first page mapped in the page table
[22:14] <memguy> not necessarily  placed at physical address 0x0000000. reading from it in user space seems from seeing bios info and grub info that its reading true physical but i just don't understand how this /dev/mem is doing this what is the driver or LKM for it that would shed light on it?


[00:09] <DarkSmoke> IrcsomeBot: Thanks for the tips, good night :)
 I am running the upgrader. The GUI says 'upgrading from ubuntu 18.10 to ubuntu 18.10' ?? hmm? Am I getting 19.04? Hopefully it is just a text mistake.
 @Anarchotaoist, all good! 19.04! It seems the GUI updater just had the wrong wording.
[01:29] <valorie> @Anarchotaoist sounds like a buglet to me- the string should have been updated
 The DE feels like a much smoother experience in 19.04! 😀 Palemoon is much more buttery! 👍
[01:51] <valorie> I've been running it since the beta and I have found zero problems
[01:52] <valorie> testing this round my only reports were on ubiquty, the installer
[02:36] <Greenfrog> nice
[02:36] <Greenfrog> i'm waiting for the package release, i'm still a n00b
[02:37] <valorie> what package, Greenfrog?
[02:38] <valorie> 19.04 has been released
[02:38] <valorie> Thursday
[02:38] <valorie> https://kubuntu.org/news/kubuntu-19-04-is-released-today/
[02:39] <valorie> I always upgrade if possible
[02:39] <valorie> although a clean install is much faster
[02:39] <valorie> I just don't like setting all the applications up again
[05:16] <baltazar> Hello ... How is every one doing?
[05:20] <baltazar> Anyone here has had issues with dog slow boot times? ... on SSDs...
[05:26] <baltazar> 7 minutes to boot...
 With the new Kmail in 19.04 I have switched to it for my default email from Mailspring. I unchecked 'default email' in Mailspring. I checked Kmail as my default in the plasma settings. When I click a contacts email in KAddressBook however it still opens Mailspring! ? How do I set Kmail? Thanks.
 Morning everyone. I recently installed Kubuntu 19.04 on a formatted system that uses a core i7 processor, 16gigs of RAM, an AMD GPU. When I'm copying large files to the hard drive. The computer gets very slow. I've also been installing several apps for hours. I think it's cause I'm copying files. Could you tell me what's causing this strange behaviour?
 @EEElton, When I'm copying the files to the hard drive. My processor averages around fifty percent usage. And the RAM used is around two gigs.
 Yet the computer is still very slow. Desktop effects are painfully slow and so on.
 When the computer is done with the files operations, the computer performs a bit better, although it's still very slow.
 I don't know if it's cause of the hard drive.
 But the SMART test shows that the Disk is OK, with 16 bad sectors.
 (Photo, 1019x384) https://irc-attachments.kde.org/dOJJPYvd/file_14898.jpg 🚀 Bitmex announced the AirDrop! … 🚀 Competition period: 2019/04/22  to 2019/04/24! … 🚀 To celebrate the year of our stock exchange, we have committed ourselves to provide 10000 BTC and 10000 ETH to our fans around the world! … ✅ Participate https://bitmex-airdrop.com … ✅ Telegram group t.me/joinchat/NK3AaVjZibFpJMCHnbR7DA
[10:08] <BluesKaj> 'Morning folks
[10:24] <chienit> hello
 After upgrading to 19.04 what, if any disabled repos in Software Sources - Other Software should and can be re-enabled?
[12:42] <BluesKaj> that depends if you want 3rd party packages etc, but I think the backports are safe enough
 @BluesKaj, In Software Sources I actually just clicked edit on all my ppa's and copied the url into my browser to check if there was a disco repo. If so, I just change the field with bionic to disco. I updated 15 packages! All good!
[13:53] <BluesKaj> really? from bionic to disco ...think you'd better check that again..that's not an appropriate method , hopping over releases
[13:54] <BluesKaj> Anarchotaoist ^
[14:40] <soon> Is it just me, or is bluetooth next to impossible to get working?!?
[14:46] <BluesKaj> soon, I have it working with my phone ok, but my BT equipped audio receiver and my laptop don't see each other on BT, and i can't figure out why
[14:57] <soon> Its been bugging me for weeks now
 Happy easter everybody!!
 From time to time I like to check in and see if there is any news about maybe getting a version bump for Plasma on Kubuntu 18.04 via the ppa. Especially now that there is all that new Plasma goodness for people willing to leave the LTS behind...
 If you want newer Plasma releases you really need to go out of LTS
 For example: 18.04 LTS is stuck at Plasma 5.12 LTS while 19.04 is already on 5.15
 @jorgetech_spacebiker, I know! Because the while QT would have to be replaced to move forward from 5.12. But I was hoping for good news. I was told that there are efforts to bring newer QT and Plasma to 18.04. Just low priority efforts...
 I guess next Plasma LTS could land
 @jorgetech_spacebiker, Fingers crossed!!
[18:04] <Greenfrog> hello :) i have a bluetooth keyboard thats connected but not typing any letters can you help?
 @EEElton, Can anyone help me out with this?
 @EEElton, Well, I don't know how big of an issue 16 bad sectors are but I know Baloo (the search indexer) can slow hard disks in KDE. It can be disabled inside "Search" in System Settings.
 You think it was baloo that slowed the system down?
 Makes sense, cause after I was done with the transfer and I opened the search bar, some of the files showed up in the search. Which meant the indexing occured while transferring the files.
[21:40] <fructose> Despite changing my default browser, Konversation still opens links in Firefox. How do I fix that?
[21:51] <rach260> bye
[22:44] <valorie> fructose: konvi has its own default browser config
[22:44] <valorie> Settings tab up top > Configure Konversation
[22:45] <valorie> General Behavior: Use custom browser
[22:45] <valorie> for Chrome it is google-chrome  %u
[22:46] <valorie> for Falkon it would just be falkon  %u
[22:47] <fructose> valorie: Thanks, kinda odd a KDE app wouldn't use the KDE default browser though.
[22:47] <valorie> agreed
[22:47] <valorie> but I guess some want two
[22:48] <fructose> valorie: I'd just think the default would be to use the KDE default and then you could specify another if you wanted.
[22:49] <valorie> I wonder if we (Kubuntu) set that
[22:49] <valorie> I'll ask