[01:20] <nixternal> alrighty, i have looked over the mallard stuff, the spec, but i have yet to see a working example..i would like to see an example first, because what i am reading is creating either a FAQ type doc, or doing close to what we do now
[01:30] <dsas> From what I understand it is to be more question and answer style.
[01:31] <nixternal> how do we select the questions though?
[01:31] <dsas> well, question is the wrong word. for example "I installed a program but now I cant find it"
[01:31] <nixternal> ya
[01:32] <nixternal> i don't think it is a good idea to get rid of the type of documentation we have as it is, but to do something extra like that as a help system is OK
[01:33] <nixternal> then again, topic-based help systems is what microsoft does, and i will admit their help is pretty damn nice ootb
[01:33] <nixternal> so for help, ok i like the idea, but for documentation i don't
[01:34] <nixternal> as you can see from the forums, #ubuntu, and other support areas, a lot of people like hand holding
[01:34] <dsas> It makes sense to me - who reads documentation? People who are experiencing problems, that and curious people.
[01:34] <nixternal> a lot of people actually
[01:34] <nixternal> if they didn't we wouldn't be getting all the bugs we do
[01:34] <dsas> nixternal: But _why_ are they reading it?
[01:35] <nixternal> for one, the documentation is really being read from help.ubuntu.com usually prior to them installing
[01:35] <nixternal> and if you ask a majority of the people where they go for helpo, they will say the forums
[01:36] <dsas> The forums are in a "question and answer" style rather than a manual though.
[01:36] <nixternal> see, we can't decide on something w/o input from a large user base, it could be dangerous
[01:37] <dsas> True, I guess it depends on how much you blindly trust mpt, upstream and a few others :)
[01:37] <nixternal> not many people go through the help locally either
[01:37] <nixternal> i don't use local help stuff or documentation, i just write it for kubuntu and kde
[01:38] <dsas> I just lurk in #ubuntu-doc and the list ;)
[01:39] <Burgwork> upstream is fairly smart
[01:39] <Burgwork> shaunm has been writing docs a long time
[01:40] <nixternal> im not saying they aren't fairly smart, but it seems they are taking their own ideas and opinions and pushing them into a project, instead of researching it first
[01:40] <nixternal> topic based is good, but how many people actually use the help system locally anyways? i don't know..i know i don't, but that doesn't mean millions of others don't
[01:40] <Burgwork> are we talkinga bout mallard?
[01:41] <Burgwork> mallard has been in plan mode for almost 2 years now
[01:42] <dsas> Isn't ubuntuguide.org, gwos, h.u.c and lots of other commonly used doc sources all topic/faq based too?
[01:42] <nixternal> is there any type of documentation for it, besides their rather blank web page that lightly goes over their ideas?
[01:42] <Burgwork> there is somewhere
[01:42] <Burgwork> ask shaunm
[01:42] <nixternal> dsas: you just hit my next point, we have a million help things out there already, is adding another the correct thing?
[01:42] <Burgwork> this is more a consolidation thing
[01:43] <nixternal> im not against this at all, i just want to understand it more so i can make a uniformed decision, and so if i think it is worth it, contact phil at kde about it, and present it to riddell as well
[01:43] <nixternal> so if my questions are rather ignorant, it is because i am towards the idea
[01:45] <tonyyarusso> What's mallard?
[01:45] <Burgwork> a docbook replacement
[01:45] <Burgwork> based around the idea of small, discrete, bits of help
[01:46] <Burgwork> linked, wiki style, together
[01:48] <dsas> nixternal: If this works out (and licensing issues are resolved) we can integrate more h.u.c/community stuff into the local help.
[01:48] <Burgwork> yes
[01:49] <nixternal> well, what was the reason with switching to the CC-by-SA 2.5 recently then?  because from what I read I thought I seen we would require multiple licenses
[01:52] <Burgwork> why do we require multiple licenses?
[01:52] <Burgwork> the two were chosen in the hopes that one would be declared non-free by debian
[01:52] <Burgwork> however, we have found that we interact little with the debian doc team
[01:52] <nixternal> well, according to the spec the CC-by-SA won't work for this
[01:53] <nixternal> the current GNU FDL and Creative Commons licenses have problems
[01:53] <nixternal> that is snipped
[01:54] <dsas> choosing cc-by-sa buggers up integrating with gnome upstream. but that's apparently out of scope at the minute
[01:58] <Burgwork> gnome is considering cc by sa as well
[01:58] <Burgwork> and remember, numbers don't matter with cc by sa
[01:58] <Burgwork> ie: if you license under 2.0, you have also licensed under 2.5 and 3.0
[01:59] <Burgwork> anyway, I need to go home
[01:59] <Burgwork> cya
[01:59] <dsas> that could theoretically suck one day
[05:18] <fumbalah> Evening guys
[05:22] <fumbalah> Hows everyone doing?
[05:26] <theCore> good, you?
[05:27] <fumbalah> Doing pretty well
[05:28] <theCore> have you taken a look to the docs?
[05:29] <fumbalah> theCore: I've edited a few wiki pages today, and basically rewritten another from scratch
[05:29] <theCore> oh, that's nice
[05:30] <theCore> do you have a copy of the docteam repository?
[05:30] <fumbalah> yea, I got one yesterday
[05:31] <fumbalah> I'm just starting with the wiki pages to get a feel
[05:33] <theCore> do you have some technical knowledge?
[05:33] <theCore> or you are mostly doing spell-checking?
[05:34] <fumbalah> both :)
[05:34] <fumbalah> I help maintain 900 or so machines at my school a few hours daily, so...
[05:36] <theCore> ah, that's good
[05:37] <fumbalah> yea, hoping to role out edbuntu in a mini lab by the end of the month
[05:41] <theCore> in a University?
[05:41] <fumbalah> High School
[05:41] <theCore> oh, that makes more sense... :)
[05:41] <fumbalah> yea...I want to try it in a few classrooms
[05:41] <theCore> those students will be lucky
[05:41] <fumbalah> Hopefully :)
[05:41] <fumbalah> theCore: Anything in specific you are working on at the moment?
[05:41] <theCore> well, nothing related to Ubuntu right now
[05:42] <fumbalah> I meant like, not right now, but like, in the coming weeks?
[05:43] <fumbalah> Whichc i guess it would have just been easier to say tha
[05:43] <theCore> oh, I'm probably continue doing some tech support and roll a graphical application for configuring GRUB
[05:44] <fumbalah> ah, nice
[05:44] <fumbalah> theCore: Are you the one applying for CC membership at the next meeting?
[05:44] <theCore> yes
[05:44] <fumbalah> Alright, I thought so
[05:45] <fumbalah> I may just watch that process, just to see how to go about it at some point
[05:45] <theCore> ah, it is not hard
[05:45] <theCore> just keep an history of what you have done
[05:46] <fumbalah> alright
[05:47] <fumbalah> I've just got to make sure to keep a fair balence between the wiki and actual docs
[05:47] <theCore> both are fairly important
[05:48] <theCore> a nice way of working on the "official" docs is the merge things from the wiki
[05:49] <fumbalah> ah, that makes good sense
[05:49] <theCore> Although, I am not saying that you should copy and paste.
[05:49] <theCore> even if the Wiki is public domain
[05:49] <fumbalah> I would only merge what I wrote anyway :-p
[05:50] <nixternal> im not sold on topic based help replacing documentation..and i know i have read that is the plan...
[05:51] <nixternal> i am banging my head on that topic here
[05:51] <fumbalah> nixternal: I figured you were gone for the night
[05:51] <nixternal> i have been working on some servers, and still am
[05:51] <nixternal> but during installs and what not, i am reading up on this spec
[05:51] <fumbalah> ah
[05:52] <nixternal> topic based help == the microsoft help center
[05:52] <nixternal> which is good
[05:52] <fumbalah> I think how it is works better
[05:52] <nixternal> but we can't replace our documents/handbook/manuals
[05:53] <nixternal> granted, KHelpCenter really doesn't provide help as much as it provides information, and yelp is the same way though...the help is nothing but manuals, not help
[05:53] <fumbalah> yea
[05:53] <theCore> ok, I am off
[05:53] <nixternal> so i can see a help system being very good, but not replacing documentation
[05:53] <nixternal> later theCore!
[05:53] <theCore> see ya all
[05:53] <nixternal> when is the next CC?
[05:54] <fumbalah> nixternal: Shouldnt you know those things :-p
[05:55] <nixternal> not really
[05:55] <nixternal> but it seems im part of some secret society of late, and maybe i should
[05:56] <fumbalah> nixternal: If you'll give me a minute i'll try and find out
[05:58] <nixternal> yoyo Madpilot!
[05:58] <Madpilot> hi nixternal
[05:59] <fumbalah> nixternal: No idea
[05:59] <fumbalah> cant'd find anythingg on it
[06:00] <fumbalah> nixternal: Did all my edits look ok?
[06:01] <nixternal> ya they were fine
[06:01] <fumbalah> alright, cool, thanks for lookin at em
[06:02] <nixternal> no problem
[06:02] <fumbalah> you all were really good at getting me started
[06:03] <nixternal> nah, you took it upon yourself to get started, we just jerked the steering wheel every now and again ;)
[06:04] <fumbalah> lol, that works too :)
[06:05] <fumbalah> I'm just going to work my way down the cleanup page at first
[06:07] <nixternal> exactly how i started
[06:09] <fumbalah> so how many emails do you average a day with all te wikipedia edits?
[06:10] <nixternal> not that many...couple hundred maybe
[06:11] <fumbalah> eww
[06:11] <fumbalah> Way too many for me
[06:11] <nixternal> well, bug emails are more that double that
[06:11] <fumbalah> wow
[06:11] <Madpilot> nixternal, are you one of the insane people subbed to the entire wiki? Both wikis?
[06:13] <nixternal> both wikis
[06:14] <nixternal> keeping an eye making sure everyone plays nice
[06:18] <fumbalah> Thats still alot of email
[06:19] <nixternal> ya, but filters and kmail rock
[06:22] <fumbalah> I prefer gmail and filters, but to each his own
[03:02] <fumbalah> good morning
[03:31] <fumbalah> hows everyone?
[05:11] <fumbalah> Good morning
[07:54] <fumbalah> Hi
[07:57] <nixternal> oy
[07:59] <fumbalah> Get all the server work done last night?
[08:04] <nixternal> nope
[08:04] <nixternal> man, today is starting out to be quite busy already
[08:06] <fumbalah> Need any help with anything?
[08:06] <nixternal> can you take my stuff to the cleaners today ;)
[08:06] <nixternal> hahaha
[08:06] <nixternal> today is my personal day
[08:07] <nixternal> i try not to work unless im hit up with some bug stuff
[08:07] <fumbalah> ah
[08:07] <fumbalah> *uses matter transporter to take your stuff where it needs to go*
[08:09] <fumbalah> I'm trying to get a couple new pages typed out today :)
[08:12] <nixternal> ya, i don't want to do much today, but rest, and maybe do some school work
[08:13] <fumbalah> Good call
[08:13] <nixternal> which im sure will be some goofy scripting stuff which i haven't looked at yet
[08:14] <fumbalah> Working on the irssi page :)
[08:16] <nixternal> irssi page
[08:17] <nixternal> oh lord..didn't even know there was one
[08:17] <fumbalah> there isnt, i was going to write it
[08:17] <nixternal> redirect it to irssi.org ;) it has everything there
[08:17] <fumbalah> Alrighty, that works too :), save me some writing
[08:18] <nixternal> it is hard writing a page that deals with settings, because of the bias that goes into it, some people may not like the ircii look, or liek the way bitchx works, and blah blah ;)
[08:18] <nixternal> the redirect thing was a joke, btw ;)
[08:19] <fumbalah> ah, alright..so i shouldnt really bother?
[08:27] <fumbalah> hmm...*ponders what to work on*
[08:43] <fumbalah> so bored
[09:02] <nixternal> food, done chicago style, fixes my bordom, back later ;)
[10:16] <fumbalah> hiya
[10:31] <fumbalah> Hows everyone?


 Special Announcement from Keith I Myers...
 I have cooked and it was good
 inspiring
 Beer battered fish and chips
 So I got the new system 76 lemur with i7 kaaby Lake
 @govatent, Sweet
 Jelly
 Found @AbMind
 Hi
 We're at the cool kids place
 Anyone up to see Dr Strange this weekend?
 +1
 Im game if it's a matinee at the cinebistro
 Mm
 Wow
 I'm busy until around 4 today, but I'm free after, @RazPi ?
 @Ivoriesablaze - That works. I was thinking later tonight for Dr Strange. If you can Kidnap @RazPi - that works as well
 @ahoneybun - were you able to check with the guy nextdoor about what he would charge for the EGR cleaninig?
 @AdamOutler - Trying to avoid malls this time of year. Was thining about Oakwood or another non-mall location
 @KMyers let me check on him
 Also, we don't want to go into any malls with geek shops
 I'm driving right now.
 And what about plans for star wars?
 I will pass on the Star wars part, not a Star Wars person to be honest
 @ahoneybun - any luck?
 Yea Eddy can do it
 @KMyers
 How much @ahoneybun and when is he free?
 @KMyers anytime after 9am on Tuesday
 And how much?
 He needs to look first
 He is fair
 Ok, what is his schedule on weekends?
 Well not this weekend for sure since he said tues
 I know, what about next weekend
 Next Saturday
 Is ok
 Ok, lets plan for next saturday
 @Ivoriesablaze - when are you free today?
 Alright @KMyers
 I can head to the tri rail in a couple hours
 I might be able to come. You guys seeing dr strange?
 Yes
 @ahoneybun / @AdamOutler - are you guys up to seeing Dr Strange
 I am but what time and where
 @RazPi I'm already in lake worth so just tell me when and I'll be there in 10 minutes
 Ok, I still need an hour or so, I thought you said a few hours xD
 *couple of hours
 Coordinate with @Ivoriesablaze so you guys can be sure you are ont he same train
 Mm I can't get Android pay to work
 What is wrong?
 @RazPi ill be hanging around lake worth, I want to try to catch the 5:15 train at Boynton
 The prompt is not coming up at all
 @ahoneybun - what happens if you just tap it?
 @Ivoriesablaze / @RazPi - it goes without saying that I will return you two if we miss the train
 Nothing @KMyers
 So it's a cm issue
 Are you rooted?
 @raz, i'm heading for your place in about 20 minutes, just an fyi... and i'm still in lake worth, so it won't take me long to get there
 @RazPi
 alright
 @KMyers I am but I'm hiding it so I could add a card
 @ahoneybun - I am sure Google has other tricks up its sleeve to prevent rooted users from accessing Android Pay
 Well I added my card so
 alright I'm dressed and ready
 just give me a note in telegram its up on my screen
 ok, on my way
 @RazPi here
 ok coming
 Let me know when you are on the Train
 some place picked out yet?
 Likely Oakwood, easy to get in and out of
 Will look for Showtimes as soon as they get here
 At the train station
 @govatent - are you up?
 @Ivoriesablaze - sweet. Let me know when you depart
 I'm awake. But I'm on my way to Miami airport to pickup my grandma who's visiting from Argentina
 Ok
 Departed
 Ok, Hollywood
 Let me know when you are in the Ft Lauderdale area
 @KMyers also let me know when to leave
 Will do
 At the airport station
 Okay. I'm heading out now
 We're going to Hollywood, right?
 Do we have enough time to get a pepperoni pizza before the movie I haven't had pizza in months
 That is correct.
 Thin crust string cheese good mozzarella
 Im almost to the point of fantasizing about it.
 I will trade system specs on that cvs scanner.
 Please get the pizza, I'm starting to worry about what he's going to be doing next to me
 Joel looks like a pizza margherite.
 And his jokes are so cheesy.
 XD
 DO IT!
 At Sheridan
 Here
 @ahoneybun head over to oakwood
 Omw
 We're you talking about dr strange next weekend?
 Or now?
 Not now for me.
 Today
 Pizzaaaaa... Hngh...
 Need.
 @ahoneybun Keith is going to bjs to get ticket voucher then regal to buy tickets then going to sals for pizza
 I'll see what is open to kill time then
 Wait in front of sals
 It's a full house in there
 A few tables outside
 @RazPi where did you go?
 @ahoneybun reserve a table outside for 4
 We'll be about 10 minutes, homes go buy the tickets then go over there
 Alright we might get a table inside since people are finishing up anyway
 10-15 min so pergect
 *perfect