[01:33] <koell> how do i logout from lubuntu from the terminal? so i get back to the login screen to choose a different user? i know about lubuntu-logout but i would like to do it via terminal (i need for a script=
[02:08] <phillw> koell: you'd have to ask someone with deep knowledge of the system that... It is not a normal function.
[02:10] <phillw> koell: have a read of http://forum.lxde.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=36264
[02:11] <phillw> nope.. that is not it...
[02:14] <phillw> koell: lxsession-logout will call the GUI, so you may be able to follow from there?
[07:04] <mikubuntu> help. my box is bugging out. can't even begin to list the places where it seems unresponsive to keystrokes, etc. decided i should do an update, and authentication will not even accept my password. anybody else having issues?
[13:34] <koell> phillw: yeah im already using lubuntu-logout, just thought there is a command for in lubuntu as well :/
[13:35] <phillw> koell: that GUI will have code behind it
[13:44] <phillw> koell: it is calling lxsession https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lxsession but I am not a coder, so that is as far as I can follow :)
[13:44] <koell> =)
[14:01] <Meris2> Using Lubuntu 14.04 64bit on a MacBook 2.1, I get the error message during linux startup that my iSight firmware cannot be loaded, even though I have run the proper installer with: sudo apt-get install isight-firmware-tools
[14:02] <Meris2> The MacBook 2.1 is not described in the tutorials for (L)ubuntu versions > 10.10
[14:02] <DrShade> Hello all! I have a question about uninstalling packages without removing the 'lubuntu-desktop' meta-package. I was trying to remove the 'xul-ext-ubufox' package. The link I paste says to mark 'lubuntu-desktop' as a manually installed package, yet it was already marked. It came marked as manually installed. So why are its dependencies still wanting to remove the meta-package? Source: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Lubuntu/Documentatio
[14:03] <phillw> DrShade: the meta package can safely be removed, it is a list of files to install during the initial install.
[14:06] <DrShade> phillw: Thanks for the quick response. Right, I understand its purpose, but I'd still like to keep it around. I'm just not understanding the mechanism of packages which are marked as manually installed. Since it is already marked, shouldn't dependencies not try and remove it? Is it because 'xul-ext-ubufox' is also marked as manually installed?
[14:06] <phillw> Meris2: the Mac team on lubuntu is quite small, wxl is your best bet. You can also head over to http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=328 which is an excellent resource.
[14:07] <Meris2> phillw, thanks for the forum link, could you please explain your reference to wxl?
[14:08] <phillw> DrShade: you can always re-install it. But once it has done its job, it would only be needed again for a system upgrade
[14:08] <phillw> Meris2: wxl is the TL of our testing team and the de-facto contact for Mac stuff
[14:09] <Meris2> Having installed support for 4 languages (English, Dutch, Swedish and Japanese), my apt-get install messages are in Japanese and my shutdown menu is in Swedish, this is not unique to my lubuntu install, my desktop running Ubuntu 14.04 runs into the same snag. $LANG registers as nl_NL_UTF8 which is to be expected
[14:10] <Meris2> The above occurs on a new install, no upgrade, no ppa's installed
[14:14] <Meris2> Correction, the $LANG environment variable is nl_NL.UTF-8 (minor details)^
[14:14] <phillw> I only have one language installed.
[14:19] <Meris2> I'm Dutch, I studied Swedish at the university and I'm currently learning Japanese
[14:20] <Meris2> That's why I have so many languages installed.
[14:20] <phillw> Meris2: stay on-line and await rafaellaguna to come on, he also does japanese so is used to multiple language packs. He's our TL for artwork and a really nice guy.
[14:22] <Meris2> phillw, thank you again for your kind words, around what time do you expect rafaellaguna to be online?
[14:23] <phillw> Meris2: he's usually on in the next couple of hours.
[14:23] <phillw> I've left a message for him :)
[14:24] <Meris2> phillw, Thanks! I have to catch a train to Amsterdam after 1 hour from now, but once I arrive, I can logon with Meris (the nick I use on my Desktop)
[14:25] <Meris2> The train ride will take abouth 30min.
[14:25] <Meris2> abouth => about
[14:26] <phillw> okies, just look for him coming on-line.
[14:26] <Meris2> At my desktop at home I run a mixture of Ubuntu and Lubuntu, but I can make sure to be logged on into the Lubuntu desktop
[14:29] <DrShade> phillw: Appreciate the responses. I had stepped away for a minute. Yeah you're right, I'm not going to worry about 'lubuntu-desktop'. Since like you said it's only needed for upgrades. I have some other questions if you don't mind?
[14:29] <phillw> !ask | DrShade
[14:36] <DrShade> Gotcha, thanks. It's about hibernation. I notice my system goes into hibernation/sleep after 10-15 minutes of inactivity. Debian does the same thing at the same time. I'd like to disable this. Is this handled by the kernel (swsusp)? Any aspects handled by LXDE/Openbox? There are options in the Power Manager app but I'm not sure if they affect kernel stuff. Simple way to disable this?
[14:44] <phillw> DrShade: it is a bug...
[14:46] <DrShade> Hibernate is a bug? Do you have more info?
[14:46] <phillw> DrShade: http://askubuntu.com/questions/291135/how-to-stop-screen-going-black-after-10-min
[14:51] <DrShade> phillw: Okay. Is hibernate/sleep not enabled by default? I had thought it was that because the screen doesn't just blank or go black, but monitor displays quick message like when it has no video signal, then goes into sleep mode. I just assumed the computer itself went to sleep.
[14:52] <phillw> the issue is that it cannot be disabled, the fix is in that link.
[14:53] <DrShade> phillw: It's not this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swsusp
[14:53] <koell> rafaellaguna :3
[15:02] <Meris2> phillw, I have to leave now, but I will be online at home @Amsterdam once I get there. Temperatures are a bit tropical right now and we are not used to this, so I expect some delays on the train.
[15:03] <Meris2> logging off... .. .
[15:03] <phillw> Meris2: no worries, it is a bit cooler in UK today.
[15:03] <Meris2> thanks again, leaving now
[15:55] <suncokret> hello, is somebody here? :)
[15:55] <ianorlin> suncokret what is your question?
[15:57] <suncokret> lubuntu 14.04 spend more ram when system is started than older versions... do you know how i can dissable some services or programs which maybe i don't need so i can have more free ram?
[15:58] <DrShade> phillw: You're right about the monitor going to sleep! It is just the 'xset' settings. 'xset s 0 0' solved the issue. Thanks so much! I feel so stupid, because I thought it was the whole system going to sleep. Apparently the old "screen blank" behavior now actually puts the monitor to sleep. Here's a good link with more info, if anybody else was wondering: http://www.shallowsky.com/linux/x-screen-blanking.html
[15:59] <DrShade> Goodbye all. Have a good day!
[15:59] <ianorlin> turn off stuff from autostart if you don't need it
[15:59] <suncokret> and where i can find autostart?
[15:59] <suncokret> :)
[15:59] <ianorlin> like if you don't use mutliple keyboard layouts no ibus
[15:59] <ianorlin> default apps for lxsession
[16:00] <suncokret> what is ibus?
[16:00] <suncokret> i use more keyboards
[16:00] <suncokret> but i don't need ibus
[16:01] <suncokret> and i had problem with double commander, when i use its text editor or make new directory, keyboard type two characters, or don't type nothing
[16:02] <suncokret> and i read somewhere that is problem in ibus
[16:02] <suncokret> and when ibus turn off problem is solved
[16:05] <phillw> DrShade: that setting is lost at each reboot.... to make it more permanent, insert a line with the same command at the start of the /home/username/.profile file.
[18:06] <user39202> How to solve problems with unity interface.    >>  http://www.img42.com/yqCBL+
[18:06] <ianorlin> user39202: how is that on topic to lubuntu and why are you cross posting to this and ubuntu-offtopic?
[18:09] <user39202> ianorlin:   You chat in parallel like me!
[20:41] <melodie> I'm here too
[20:41] <melodie> :)
[20:41] <rafaellaguna> me too :D
[20:41] <rafaellaguna> what's the problem?
[20:41] <melodie> there is no Meris2 here. phillw ?
[20:42] <rafaellaguna> nope


[09:02] <rick_h> cmaloney: <3 good to hear it went well.
[14:31] <cmaloney> rick_h: Thank you. :)
[14:38] <shakes808> morning
[14:38] <shakes808> cmaloney: So what is the verdict of your CA trip?
[14:42] <rick_h> was it as cool as it seemed from the outside once you got there cmaloney ?
[14:55] <cmaloney> rick_h: Um... I twas wet
[14:55] <cmaloney> it was
[14:55] <rick_h> lol
[14:55] <rick_h> well /me sends all kinds of good luck wishes your way for it
[14:55] <cmaloney> and the traffic was as horrible in a suburban area
[14:55] <cmaloney> I'd hate to see it in LA or San Fran
[14:55] <rick_h> yea, it's not fun
[14:55]  * rick_h could never live out there
[14:56] <cmaloney> I didn't see the Googleplex from where I was either. I thought it was like the eye of sauron or something
[14:58] <cmaloney> The sashimi out there was really good
[14:58] <cmaloney> WEnt to Pacific Catch and had poke
[14:58] <rick_h> yea, always love to get some sushi while out on the coast
[14:58] <rick_h> nice
[15:01] <cmaloney> when we were driving to Pacific Catch we went past a Chili's and for a moment I thought they were taking me to Chili's
[15:01] <cmaloney> not that it would have been bad, but we have three of them within a 30 minut edrive
[15:02] <rick_h> lol
[15:02] <jrwren> I haven't stepped foot in a chili's in at least 15yrs.
[15:02] <jrwren> I don't know why. It seems a reasonable alternative to applebees. :)
[15:03] <rick_h> yea, longhorn > chilis > applebees > wendys > McD
[15:03] <cmaloney> jrwren: depending on the location a chilis can beat applebees any day of the week
[15:04] <cmaloney> especially if you're just getting the tortilla-strip-chicken-thing
[15:04] <jrwren> is it? I'll remember this the next time my options are so limited.
[15:04] <jrwren> They were limited a few weeks ago in columbus and I ended up at applebees. it wasn't that bad.
[15:05] <cmaloney> We haven't been at Applebees in a long time. Last time we were in there was when it was within walking distance in Belleville
[15:05] <cmaloney> But then they opened up an O'Charley's (if I'm remembering the name correctly) and that was the end of Applebees for us
[15:05] <rick_h> yea, gave up on applebees like you did on chilis evidently
[15:07] <cmaloney> but it depends on the locations. There's a Chili's by us that we drive past to get to the one in Rochester
[15:10] <cmaloney> There's a Logans by us that goes up and down in quality as well. SOm times it's as good as Longhorn and other days where it's below Texas Roadhouse.
[15:17] <jrwren> oh, we had LONG given up on applebees, but... when the only ohter thing is mcdonalds... we give it a shot.
[15:18] <jrwren> I used to love Logans... I was young and foolish :) Not that its bad, its just... I liked it far beyond what it deserved.
[15:18] <cmaloney> jrwren: exactly
[15:19] <cmaloney> when you'r idea of steak is the chopped steak at Ponderosa then Logans is a step up
[15:19] <cmaloney> s/you'r/your/
[15:19] <jrwren> lol.
[15:20] <cmaloney> That's where I learned the trick of ordering medium rare so it would at least have some pink in the middle
[15:20] <rick_h> lol
[15:20] <rick_h> definitely have moved up tastes over time
[15:20] <cmaloney> and then when JoDee and I were on a date at Outback I (apologetically) had to send the sirloin back because it was too rare for me.
[15:21] <rick_h> I used to love Olive Garden as a "nice night out"
[15:21] <Zimdale> "too rare"?
[15:21] <rick_h> now it's basically italian themed applebees
[15:21] <cmaloney> We just went to Olive Garden. They've stepped p their game
[15:21] <rick_h> have they? it went bad for a while
[15:21] <cmaloney> Yeah, they were pretty terrible for a while
[15:22] <jrwren> i went ot olive garden a couple yrs ago with the kid. tomato sauce isn't supposed to be that color. i don't know what they are server.
[15:22] <jrwren> *serving
[15:22] <rick_h> yea, the bread wasn't any good, the salad was slop, I cut it out of the approved dining list a while ago
[15:22] <cmaloney> I had cappelini pomodoro from Olive Garden a while back that was literally cafeteria spaghetti with some tomatos thrown on it
[15:24] <cmaloney> But I think they realized that Maggianos and Carabbas have literally eaten their lunch
[15:25] <cmaloney> so I'd put it back in rotation, but a probationary one
[15:26] <cmaloney> the salad is still a head of lettuce drowned in dressing  with some cabbage thrown in for color.
[15:26] <jrwren> but... you can eat it forever.  its unlimited salad.
[15:26] <jrwren> "More salad?" "How about some freshly grated parmasean?"
[15:50] <brousch__> It's kind of interesting how my wife and I have moved from OG/Outback/Logans for date night to more local places too.
[15:50] <brousch__> PArt of that is more restaurants opening near us
[15:52] <jrwren> oh man... took me a good 10s to know what OG was, because OG is original gravity to me and I didn't think you were near original gravity :)
[16:02] <cmaloney> brousch__ is a timelord.
[16:03] <brousch__> I assumed that was universal
[16:06] <shakes808> on subject ( food ) and off subject: https://tinyurl.com/h3oe7f7
[16:09] <cmaloney> I doubt that will get that money
[16:10] <shakes808> i hope not.  and i hope that people aren't that stupid... but that is highly unlikely
[16:10] <cmaloney> I don't remember the exact way that works but I think there's a way for "joke" auctions like that to not have to pay
[16:11] <cmaloney> first off, it's foodstuffs, which I don't think are permitted on eBay (been a while since I was active there)
[16:11] <brousch__> Crap. I should have auctioned my Michigan-shaped fish nugget
[16:12] <cmaloney> second-off I think there was an escape-valve that folks could trigger to not have to pay or some shit.
[16:14] <shakes808> there was this a few years back: https://tinyurl.com/jn9tq76
[16:16] <shakes808> but if you want to be blessed EVERY TIME you eat a grilled sandwich: https://tinyurl.com/zyv77cb
[16:19] <cmaloney> http://hoaxes.org/weblog/comments/vmary_sandwich
[16:21] <cmaloney> I think the BBC had the best headline for that: made reference to the holy toast.
[16:26] <shakes808> interesting


[09:07] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Release 18.10.2 @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/?id=f2ea716759c0e4422d7a7ccb1e99ace26372bd05 (by Sean Davis)
[09:09] <bluesabre> brainwash, ondondil, ali1234, let me know if there are some concrete changes or if more adjustments need to be made... I went ahead and uploaded what we have in the hopes I can land it in the beta
[09:10] <bluesabre> not sure what freeze state the archive might actually be in, but we'll see
[09:10] <bluesabre> bbl
[10:57] <bluesabre> btw, this is a crazy busy week for me, so I probably won't be around much... but I'll still work on getting release notes together before Thursday
[11:00] <brainwash> bluesabre: all info should be in the remaining two x-d-s reports
[11:00] <brainwash> it's low priority, so it can be delayed
[11:03] <brainwash> bluesabre: do you think that bug 1550444 is a duplicate of bug 1374887?
[11:03] <brainwash> I asked this yesterday
[23:17] <bluesabre> brainwash: I think they're not duplicates


[00:50] <genupulas> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6461411/
[00:50] <genupulas> tumbleweed: ^^
[00:55] <tumbleweed> genupulas: if you want to build in pbuilder, you need to build a *source* package first
[00:55] <tumbleweed> then ask pbuilder to build that
[00:56] <tumbleweed> (at least that's where we left things last time)
[00:56] <genupulas> any example please ?
[00:56] <tumbleweed> right, now you need a .orig tarball
[00:56] <tumbleweed> bzr bd -S -- -uc -us
[00:56] <tumbleweed> I think I told you that before
[00:57] <genupulas> doing freshly again
[01:00] <genupulas> i already created that with dh_make here is the ls.
[01:00] <genupulas> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6461436/
[01:00] <genupulas> tumbleweed: ^^
[01:03] <tumbleweed> genupulas: that should work
[01:03] <tumbleweed> ah
[01:04] <tumbleweed> you were in the wrong directory when you ran bzr builddeb
[01:04] <genupulas> I ran the same in debian dir also and got same
[01:04] <Unit193> (Or, use pdebuild)
[01:06] <genupulas> tumbleweed: good news , I have got ot.
[01:07] <genupulas> actually the  tar have 1.1-1 but origh have 1.1 and change log have 1.1-1  . i went up there and cleared that. now its fine. Thank you. be here please. I will paste here if any problems i have got. Thank you.
[01:09] <tumbleweed> genupulas: the upstream version is 1.1, so it should be 1.1.orig.tar.whatever
[01:09] <tumbleweed> err whatever_1.1.orig.tar.whatever
[01:09] <genupulas> I have same issue that we got yesterday
[01:10] <genupulas> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6461465/
[01:10] <genupulas> dependecies
[01:11] <tumbleweed> -S remember?
[01:11] <tumbleweed> I've said this a few times now
[01:12] <genupulas> command please \
[01:12] <tumbleweed> bzr bd -S -- -uc -us
[01:14] <genupulas> No that was successful : http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6461474/
[01:15] <tumbleweed> no it was
[01:15] <tumbleweed> on line 32, you'd built a source package
[01:15] <genupulas> Cleaning build dir: /home/august/Dev/build-area/mplayer-1.1
[01:15] <tumbleweed> now you build that with pbuilder
[01:16] <genupulas> what you want me to do ? type pbuilder ?
[01:17] <genupulas> tumbleweed:  command please
[01:19] <tumbleweed> pbuilder-dist saucy foo.dsc
[01:21] <genupulas> what is the mistake i have done ?
[01:22] <tumbleweed> you're building it directly on your system, where you don't have your build-deps
[01:22] <genupulas> tumbleweed:  stream-client-dev{a} x11-common{a} x11proto-composite-dev{a}
[01:22] <genupulas>  here why everywhere {a} ?
[01:26] <tumbleweed> what's the context?
[01:26] <tumbleweed> I suspect that could mean arch-all. I haven't used pbuilder in forever
[01:51] <genupulas> current Ubuntu packaging some what different right ?
[02:29] <genupulas> tumbleweed: success . Thank you
[02:33] <genupulas> tumbleweed:  pbuilder-dist saucy *.dsc
[02:33] <genupulas>  will create .deb ?
[02:41] <genupulas> Please remember that the signature file (.sig or .asc)
[02:41] <genupulas> should be the first file given on the command line.
[16:45] <Laney> tumbleweed: excellent, ta


[01:40] <Amolith> Does anyone know how I can uninstall geary without also removing budgie-desktop-environment?
[03:25] <lafleurdubien> help please! how can I change screen orientation/rotation? typing this upside down!


[01:13] <jsgotangco> hey Burglaptop
[01:13] <mdke> that's a pretty active page i think
[01:13] <mdke> hello jerome
[01:14] <jsgotangco> hey mdke
[01:14] <jsgotangco> happy holidays! (if not too late)
[01:14] <mdke> same to you :)
[01:15] <jsgotangco> i did some doc updates but havent uploaded yet
[01:15] <mdke> cool, why not upload?
[01:15] <jsgotangco> i forgot my laptop
[01:16] <mdke> ah
[01:16] <mdke> which docs?
[01:16] <jsgotangco> kubuntu and server
[01:16] <mdke> oh wow
[01:16] <Burglaptop> mdke: it is pretty active, but a lot of the informatin is already known
[01:16] <mdke> Burglaptop, known or fixed?
[01:16] <Burglaptop> known, with LP specs to talk about each issue
[01:17] <jsgotangco> but theres no activity in svn at all, so i'll just upload when i get my laptop tommorow at my in laws
[01:17] <mdke> i guess you can note that, if you wish
[01:17] <mdke> jsgotangco, sounds good
[01:17] <Burglaptop> ugh, I will just leave it for now
[01:27] <Burglaptop> jsgotangco: do you have any objections if i nuke the various Koffice pages that have no useful help content on them?
[01:28] <jsgotangco> who uses KOffice anyways
[01:28] <Burglaptop> right, they shall die
[01:41] <Burglaptop> spanish? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SmartLinkModemDriverHowto?highlight=%28CategoryCleanup%29
[01:45] <Burglaptop> mdke: ^
[01:45] <mdke> why would you delete spanish pages?
[01:46] <jsgotangco> yeah
[01:46] <mdke> my spanish is very poor, but the page looks good to me
[01:47] <Burglaptop> I don't want to delete it
[01:47] <Burglaptop> I want to move it to -ES or something similar
[01:47] <mdke> my spanish isn't good enough to improve it
[01:48] <mdke> will you move all the spanish docs?
[01:48] <Burglaptop> no, just that one because it is an english namespace
[01:49] <mdke> the others seem to have "COMO" after them
[01:49] <mdke> i guess you could add that
[01:50] <mdke> ubuntu-es.org has a lot of documentation on there
[01:50] <mdke> you could ask them to migrate it i guess
[01:58] <mdke> gah, where is the mp3 help on the wiki??
[01:59] <Madpilot> mdke: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RestrictedFormats
[01:59] <mdke> Madpilot, nope
[01:59] <mdke> at least, I don't see it
[01:59] <Madpilot> that's the only mp3 page I know of...
[02:00] <Madpilot> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RestrictedFormats#head-98f0945855102afe97a542ae07168f3ddcc61124
[02:00] <mdke> ah ok, no separate section
[02:00] <mdke> i found this tho, which is what I was looking for: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CDRipping
[02:00] <Madpilot> no, it's lumped in with the rest of the non-free stuff
[02:01] <mdke> i think mp3 needs an entry in the TOC on RestrictedFormats, that was too hard to find :(
[02:01] <mdke> especially since the page "mp3" links there
[02:01] <mdke> links/redirects*
[02:01] <Madpilot> you want to do it, or should I?
[02:03] <mdke> i'll do it, sure
[02:11] <mdke> man that TOC is long and ugly :)
[02:12] <mdke> prime candidate for subpages :)
[02:14] <mdke> heya rob1
[02:14] <rob1> hi mdke
[02:15] <mdke> good christmas?
[02:15] <rob1> yeah, still tired
[02:15] <rob1> how about yourself?
[02:17] <mdke> good thanks
[02:28] <jsgotangco> i slept all day myself yesterday
[02:53] <mdke> hmm, the FAQ resources suck quite a lot
[03:18] <Burglaptop> mdke: yes, they do
[03:18] <Burglaptop> mdke: I almost wonder if we should redirect '
[03:18] <Burglaptop> FAQ to UserDoc
[03:52] <Burglaptop> what does everybody think of having all WindowsPrograms as a subpage of WindowsPrograms?
[03:56] <Madpilot> huh? all who as a subpage of what?
[04:01] <Burglaptop> move things like WorldofWarcraft to under WindowsPrograms
[04:02] <Madpilot> why?
[04:02] <Madpilot> we know they're windows apps, but wine & linux are the point, not Windows, right?
[04:02] <Burglaptop> put them under Wine then?
[04:03] <Madpilot> why move them at all?
[04:03] <Burglaptop> because they all require Wine or Cedega
[04:28] <jsgotangco> Burglaptop, ping?
[04:31] <Madpilot> he was here about half an hour ago, jsgotangco
[04:31] <jsgotangco> ahhh
[04:33] <Burglaptop> jsgotangco: yep?
[04:33] <jsgotangco> heh he's still online im pretty sure, wiki updates are still happening
[04:33] <jsgotangco> see?
[04:33] <jsgotangco> Burglaptop, do you know Mark Johnson, Debian upstream
[04:34] <Burglaptop> jsgotangco: for which package?
[04:34] <jsgotangco> Docbook
[04:35] <jsgotangco> he sent email to Jane a few weeks ago inquiring about doc work, but he hinted at compensation
[04:35] <jsgotangco> i told jane we're volunteers
[04:35] <jsgotangco> :)
[04:35] <Burglaptop> nope, never heard of him
[04:35] <jsgotangco> so jane told mark to contact us
[04:35] <jsgotangco> (Janew)
[04:36] <jsgotangco> well anyways, i invited him over he could probably help out on the technical aspects (that we're not very familiar with)
[04:37] <jsgotangco> i told him not to expect much, we're mostly writers not xml hackers anyways
[04:37] <jsgotangco> (fyi guys)
[04:41] <Burglaptop> jsgotangco: did you have any thoughts about moving Windows stuff under Wine?
[04:42] <jsgotangco> hmmm
[04:42] <jsgotangco> so that you can save the namespace?
[04:42] <Burglaptop> yes, and to clearly identify them
[04:42] <jsgotangco> seems ok but not all windows stuff are wine related
[04:43] <Burglaptop> whatever, I will leave them for now
[04:43] <Burglaptop> jsgotangco: can you try moving WorldofWarcraftHowto to WorldofWarcraft ?
[04:43] <jsgotangco> hold on
[04:44] <jsgotangco> why not just rename the page?
[04:45] <Burglaptop> I did, it fails
[04:45] <jsgotangco> well i created a new page
[04:45] <jsgotangco> purge the Howto?
[04:46] <Burglaptop> hmm?
[04:46] <jsgotangco> purge WorldofWarcraftHowto ?
[04:47] <Burglaptop> how do I do that?
[04:48] <jsgotangco> ummm
[04:48] <jsgotangco> More Actions - delete page ?
[04:49] <Burglaptop> I created and deleted WorldofWarcraft to try and clear that
[04:49] <Burglaptop> I suspect that it is a bug in Moin
[04:49] <jsgotangco> hmm
[04:50] <Burglaptop> a bloody hell, it has already been moved
[04:51] <jsgotangco> yay we still have pitti's christmas gift on locales and apt dumbness
[04:51] <Burglaptop> jsgotangco: there is a workaround
[04:52] <jsgotangco> how?
[04:52] <Burglaptop> remove locales
[04:52] <jsgotangco> the deb won't install
[04:52] <jsgotangco> hmm?
[04:52] <Burglaptop> reinstall the old 2.3.6 one
[04:52] <Burglaptop> upgrade to the 2.3.7 version
[04:52] <Burglaptop> then reinstall your locales
[04:52] <Burglaptop> that is what pitti was trying to say in the email
[04:52] <jsgotangco> how crackful is that?
[04:52] <Burglaptop> not
[04:53] <jsgotangco> ahh
[04:53] <Burglaptop> well, the wine stuff is pretty well in hand now
[05:15] <Burglaptop> well, that is first time I have blogged about doc work in ages
[05:16] <jsgotangco> you blogged about the wiki tsunami you caused this weekend?
[05:17] <Burglaptop> yep
[05:45] <Burglaptop> jsgotangco: what do you think about redirecting FAQ to UserDocumentation
[05:54] <jsgotangco> hmmm
[06:03] <jsgotangco> FAQ is hardly formal documentation
[06:03] <Burglaptop> but the information in it is very outdated
[06:07] <Burglaptop> FAQ has now been moved on to the website
[06:07] <Burglaptop> s/website/wii
[06:07] <Burglaptop> wiki, even
[06:07] <jsgotangco> most of it are still in zope methinks
[06:09] <Burglaptop> not the faq
[06:09] <Burglaptop> some of us should have edit privs on the website
[06:10] <jsgotangco> i have edit privs on art.ubuntu.com but its hardly usable at the moment
[06:11] <jsgotangco> upading the submitted artwork is cumbersome for starters
[06:12] <jsgotangco> bloody hell kubuntu flight 2 networking is borked
[06:15] <Burglaptop> kde is pretty borked right now
[06:15] <jsgotangco> *sigh*
[06:16] <crimsun> how is it borked?
[06:16] <Burglaptop> it is kde *grin*
[06:17] <Burglaptop> I understand there are some migration issues with recent changes
[06:17] <Burglaptop> gstreamer, etc.
[06:20] <jsgotangco> i like katapult though
[06:24] <jsgotangco> Burglaptop, i remove locales?
[06:25] <Burglaptop> jsgotangco: yes
[06:26] <jsgotangco> specifically?
[06:27] <Burglaptop> apt-get remove locales
[06:29] <jsgotangco> and next i install?
[06:29] <Burglaptop> install the old version of locales off the flight 2 cd
[06:29] <Burglaptop> then upgrade the locales package
[06:29] <Burglaptop> then use the language selector gui to reinstall the language packs
[06:30] <Burglaptop> and use it to set you default locale
[06:30] <jsgotangco> hmm so this is an apt issue right? not locales specifically
[06:33] <Burglaptop> there might be a bug in the locales package as well
[08:08] <jsgotangco> Burglaptop, ping?
[08:14] <Burglaptop> jsgotangco: pong
[08:15] <jsgotangco> have you tried http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/ch02.html
[08:16] <Burglaptop> nope
[08:16] <Burglaptop> do you think this wording a little strong? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FirefoxNewVersion
[08:16] <Burglaptop> the top note
[08:18] <jsgotangco> heh if it breaks stuff why install it in the first place
[08:18] <Burglaptop> some will demand the latest crack
[08:18] <Madpilot> ...because it's new and shiny!
[08:18] <jsgotangco> bah
[08:18] <robitaille> the top note is a bit strong, but that wiki page does some intrusive stuff to someone  setup...
[08:19] <jsgotangco> its like buying the first batch of broken xbox units
[08:20] <Burglaptop> anyway, I am rebooting for a bootchart
[08:20] <Burglaptop> brb
[08:25] <Burglaptop> hmm, 42 secs
[08:25] <jsgotangco> yeah
[08:25] <jsgotangco> average
[08:26] <jsgotangco> mine is similar
[08:26] <Burglaptop> wonder if a 686 kernel would shave any tiome off
[08:49] <Belutz> jdub, are you there?
[08:49] <jsgotangco> hey Belutz
[08:49] <Belutz> hi jsgotangco :D
[08:49] <Belutz> how are you?
[08:49] <jsgotangco> not bad what's up
[08:50] <Belutz> i'm still in sydney
[08:50] <Belutz> i'm coming home tommorow
[08:50] <jsgotangco> oh did you meet jdub at least?
[08:51] <Belutz> no :(
[08:51] <Belutz> i don't bring my laptop
[08:51] <jsgotangco> why did you spend christmas in sydney?
[08:51] <Belutz> because i didn't plan to stay this long
[08:51] <Belutz> because my friend's parents ask me to extend my stay in sydney
[08:52] <robitaille> Belutz,   jdub has been irc idle for the last 92 hours.
[08:52] <robitaille> I suspect he is not around
[08:53] <Belutz> i see
[08:53] <jsgotangco> why?
[08:53] <Belutz> this is my last day in sydney, i thought i could meet him
[08:54] <Belutz> why? hmm no reason :D
[08:54] <jsgotangco> i have his number but i don't like giving out numbers he might not like it even
[08:54] <Belutz> jsgotangco: http://belutz.blogspot.com
[08:54] <jsgotangco> he's probably out of town as well
[08:55] <Belutz> jsgotangco, that's ok :)
[08:55] <jsgotangco> hmm lifeless is in sydney i think
[08:55] <jsgotangco> or maybe not
[08:55] <Belutz> i like sydney...
[08:56] <Belutz> :D
[08:56] <jsgotangco> i didnt know you studied at wollongong
[08:56] <Belutz> jsgotangco, i studied in jakarta, but it's an overseas programme
[08:56] <jsgotangco> ahh right
[08:57] <jsgotangco> but you still have a degree from UoW right?
[08:57] <Belutz> yup
[08:57] <jsgotangco> maybe i should consider a homestudy for grad school
[08:57] <Belutz> i'm an alumni from UoW
[08:58] <Belutz> jsgotangco, yeah, maybe i'm going to apply for some scholarship
[08:58] <jsgotangco> hmm i'll shop around i'm going back to brisbane in 2 weeks after the new year
[08:59] <Belutz> waaa... you're going to brisbane?
[09:00] <jsgotangco> it should have been a few weeks ago but i decided to move it next year
[09:00] <Belutz> i see
[09:00] <Belutz> for work?
[09:00] <jsgotangco> yep
[09:01] <Belutz> :D
[12:59] <mdke> Burgwork, maybe ask about the warning to the firefox page on the forum thread, i can't see anyone complaining about that problem there
[06:06] <Burgwork> mdke, but people who bork their systems may not make it tothe forums
[06:22] <Burgwork> holy crap, that was a commit I just saw
[06:59] <Burgwork> hmm
[06:59] <Burgwork> http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_id=9155633&forum_id=43270
[07:25] <mdke> Burgwork, sure, i still think it's a good idea to ask the original author via that thread
[07:25] <mdke> also, I don't think people have borked their systems beyond going to the forum, because that thread has 31 pages of feedback
[07:36] <Burgwork> mdke, does the warning harm people
[07:36] <Burgwork> ?
[08:03] <mdke> Burgwork, i don't know, i haven't tried the guide. I'm just suggesting you ask the author about it, it's just common courtesy
[08:05] <mdke> if the forum thread shows a lot of satisfied customers, it would be nice to figure out when the problem is caused, and when it isn't
[08:18] <Burgwork> mdke, most of those users probably don't use some of those programs. But breaking help I consider fairly major
[08:18] <Burgwork> mdke, the problem is caused all the time, regardless
[08:19] <Burgwork> any time you upgrade FF, you must upgrade those apps or they will cease to work, period
[08:21] <mdke> it is a major problem if true, but I find it hard to understand why nothing appears on that thread
[08:21] <mdke> firefox is not upgraded anyhow, the old version is left intact iirc
[08:21] <Burgwork> because most of the forums people don't use those apps
[08:22] <mdke> ok, if you're not going to post, i'm happy to do it
[08:22] <Burgwork> sure, I am busy at work currently
[08:22] <mdke> i consider it simple courtesy
[08:22] <mdke> some info
[08:22] <mdke> where did you hear about the breakage?
[08:23] <mdke> -users?
[08:40] <Burgwork> hmm, rethinking this
[08:45] <Burgwork> I think I might be wrong, as much as it pains me to admit it
[08:45] <mdke> you haven't seen the breakage?
[08:46] <Burgwork> I think to change the note at the top
[08:46] <Burgwork> it should say "As long as you don
[08:46] <Burgwork> t remove  the existing copy of Firefox, ....
[08:47] <mdke> o.o
[08:48] <mdke> the guide doesn't say to remove it, afaics
[08:48] <Burgwork> no it doesn't, but people might think to do that anyway, because they "don
[08:48] <Burgwork> t need it"
[08:48] <Burgwork> grr, bloody enter key
[08:49] <mdke> a note about that would be fine yeah
[08:50] <Burgwork> I shall edit it
[08:51] <Burgwork> i will test that on a fresh breezy install sometime this week
[08:51] <mdke> good idea
[08:51] <mdke> hello BlackDesert
[08:51] <mdke> :)
[08:51] <BlackDesert> hi everybody
[08:51] <BlackDesert> ;-)
[08:52] <Burgwork> salut BlackDesert
[09:17] <Burgwork> mdke, I like your wording better
[09:17] <mdke> ;)
[09:19] <mdke> can we remove the links to the FAQs on UserDocumentation?
[09:19] <mdke> they suck balls
[09:19] <Burgwork> yep
[09:19] <Burgwork> I had though we should redirect FAQ to UserDocumentation
[09:20] <mdke> we really need to take anything useful from the faqs and integrate em with the rest of the wiki
[09:20] <mdke> I'll add that to WikiToDo
[09:20] <Burgwork> they are mostly done. I will do some of that today
[09:21] <mdke> rocking
[09:27] <mdke> blimey
[09:27] <mdke> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareManagement looks rather like a new attempt at UserDocumentation ;)
[09:28] <Burgwork> I really should tackle the big pages like that
[09:28] <mdke> i'm gonna wreak havoc on it
[09:29] <Burgwork> mdke, can some of us get edit rights to http://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/documentation/faq/faqfolder_view
[09:29] <mdke> not that I know of
[09:29] <Burgwork> ugh
[09:29] <mdke> the new website will be along soon I think
[09:29] <Burgwork> that badly needs updating
[09:29] <mdke> so that won't be a problem
[09:29] <mdke> i filed a bug about that yesterday tho, it really sucks
[09:35] <Burgwork> mdke, I was thinking about creating a category called  NeedsExpansion
[09:35] <Burgwork> pages that don't completely explain the topic
[09:36] <Burgwork> as opposed to pages that are badly written
[09:37] <mdke> hmm not sure
[09:37] <mdke> maybe simple is best
[09:37] <mdke> Burgwork, have we got a comprehensive list of games anywhere?
[09:38] <mdke> there is one on that SoftwareManagement page which I'm about to remove
[09:38] <Burgwork> mdke, there is no Games page
[09:38] <Burgwork> let me create one
[09:38] <Burgwork> I think FAQ is ready to be redirected UserDocumentatin
[09:38] <mdke> ok
[09:38] <Burgwork> do you think I should just do it or ask for futher input?
[09:38] <mdke> sounds fine
[09:39] <mdke> I'll do the Games page
[09:39] <Burgwork> redirection done
[09:40] <Burgwork> I can add things about Wine/Cedega to the games page later
[09:40] <mdke> fine
[09:43] <mdke> it's at "Games"
[09:43] <Burgwork> why don't we remove the main games from the UserDocumentation page and just have a link to the Games page on UserDocumentation
[09:43] <mdke> that's what I did
[09:44] <Burgwork> great minds think alike
[09:44] <Burgwork> hadn't seen the diffyet
[09:44] <mdke> :)
[09:49] <Burgwork> I think the wiki is really starting to come together as a good resource
[09:50] <mdke> me too
[09:50] <crimsun> it's certainly becoming more usable from a new user's perspective, thanks to everyone's work
[09:50] <mdke> it's high maintenance though
[09:50] <mdke> at the moment
[09:51] <crimsun> ultimately I'd love to see wiki integration into the distro
[09:51] <Burgwork> documentation is always high maintenacne
[09:51] <Burgwork> crimsun, where  that will come is through LP-integration
[09:51] <crimsun> Burgwork: yep
[09:51] <Burgwork> and LP-landing pages
[09:51] <mdke> Burgwork, well... a lot of the maintenance on the wiki is not based on the documentation
[09:51] <mdke> look at the time you've spent on those specs
[09:51] <Burgwork> mdke, yes, indeed
[09:51] <Burgwork> I hate that LP drives into our wiki
[09:51] <Burgwork> for people and specs
[09:52] <mdke> i don't
[09:52] <Burgwork> both of those should be exclusively on LP
[09:52] <mdke> we just need another wiki
[09:52] <mdke> ah, yeah ultimately
[09:52] <Burgwork> and yes, we also need another wiki
[09:52] <Burgwork> one that allows "publishing" of a sort
[09:52] <mdke> homepages and specs will ultimately be on LP, I'm sure
[09:52] <Burgwork> I am not so certain about the specs
[09:53] <Burgwork> the LP guys didn't see my POV when I was at UBZ
[09:54] <Burgwork> as a first step, we need to get off the ubuntu wiki onto our own
[09:54] <Burgwork> then we can start talking better wiki stuff
[09:55] <Burgwork> is the document storage facility down?
[09:56] <mdke> not sure, it goes down for a short period each day i believe
[09:56] <Burgwork> it was down yesterday for a quite sometime, and I can't get it now
[09:57] <mdke> try #gwos
[09:57] <Burgwork> negatory
[09:58] <mdke> i don't know that word
[09:59] <Burgwork> doesn't exist
[10:00] <mdke> oh, strange
[10:00] <mdke> ah
[10:00] <mdke> #ubuntu-gwos
[10:02] <Burgwork> if we migrate to our own wiki, should we migrate to Mediawiki at the same time?
[10:02] <Burgwork> having the same markup as the biggest wikis in the world will probably help us get contributers
[10:04] <mdke> is that a rhetorical question?
[10:05] <Burgwork> no
[10:05] <mdke> you know my answer ;)
[10:05] <mdke> different Ubuntu wikis with different markup would be so bad
[10:05] <mdke> not to mention different authserver hacks
[10:05] <Burgwork> yes, the authserv stuff is a breakign point
[10:05] <Burgwork> but LP is giong to have a gneeric api for that
[10:06] <Burgwork> because they are working to integrate with many different systems
[10:08] <Burgwork> dammit, I want to blog again but nobody has blogged
[10:08] <mdke> is that a problem?
[10:08] <Burgwork> yes, a self imposed rule, so it doesn't become Planet Corey
[10:08] <mdke> ah
[10:08] <mdke> i don't think that will happen ;)
[10:09] <Burgwork> with the amount of blogging I have been doign recently
[10:20] <Burgwork> ugh, forgot this page existed https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HowTos
[10:21] <Burgwork> and now we have someone adding to it
[10:21] <mdke> yeah henrik made it when porting the howtos from the website
[10:21] <Burgwork> check out RecentChanges
[10:21] <mdke> i see it
[10:22] <Burgwork> I have emailed that person and asked them to join us here
[10:22] <mdke> cool
[10:22] <Burgwork> we should probably merge that page into UserDoc as well
[10:22] <mdke> agreed
[10:22] <Burgwork> once he replys I will do that
[10:24] <Burgwork> desk, even
[10:24] <mdke> know that feeling
[10:25] <Burgwork> I didn't get to sleep until 2am this morning
[10:25] <Burgwork> ugh, moin needs a better method of uploads and attachments
[10:25] <Burgwork> per page is very very primitive
[10:32] <Burgwork> http://labix.org/irss
[10:33] <Burgwork> http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/SinglePageSlideShow
[10:34] <Burgwork> that second could be very cool for us
[10:38] <Burgwork> ok, so moin cannot allow users to edit one page and everybody to edit a talk page
[10:38] <Burgwork> which mediawiki can do, with a single switch
[10:39] <Burgwork> you can do it in moin, but you must configure on a page by page basis
[10:42] <mdke> although I'm not sure about such a feature
[10:42] <mdke> forums do that
[10:43] <Burgwork> that i what I got from #moin
[10:43] <mdke> what is?
[10:43] <Burgwork> the information about ACLs
[10:43] <Burgwork> which in my mind is a key part of a better wiki doc system
[10:44] <mdke> i'm not sure
[10:45] <mdke> i don't think we should shie away from the idea that wiki docs can be collaborative
[10:46] <Burgwork> yes, they can be collaborative
[10:47] <Burgwork> published help should only need typos being changed and minor things
[10:47] <Burgwork> web published I mean
[10:47] <Burgwork> my proposal involves having the in progress stuff as very much collobarative, exactly as today
[10:47] <Burgwork> but the published  stuff would be pushed onto a different wiki with slight different rules
[10:48] <mdke> why?
[10:49] <Burgwork> because the end user knows they are getting high qulality docs when they go to help.u.c.
[10:49] <mdke> the end user knows they are getting high quality information when they go to wikipedia.org
[10:49] <Burgwork> so all the end user sees in help.u.c unless they wish to help us
[10:50] <mdke> i'm not really convinced that the extra confusion that having more than one help wiki would put on the user is worth any possible benefit
[10:50] <Burgwork> but help is tied to a specific release
[10:50] <Burgwork> and after that release happens, the docs assoicated can be slushy frozen, ala the current svn stuff
[10:53] <Burgwork> we don't actually need a wiki
[10:53] <mdke> gtg now
[10:53] <Burgwork> cya


[06:24] <anuragh> can someone suggest me  best tutorials for snapcraft ?
[11:07] <mup> PR snapd#3077 closed: interfaces: convert systemd backend to new APIs <Created by zyga> <Merged by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3077>
[11:08] <Son_Goku> zyga: who do we talk to for getting Launchpad's Red Hat bug tracker integration fixed? https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/bugtrackers/redhat-bugs
[11:12] <mup> PR snapd#3072 closed: interfaces: use udev spec <Created by stolowski> <Merged by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3072>
[11:13] <zyga> Son_Goku: hey
[11:13] <zyga> Son_Goku: cjwatson I think
[11:13] <zyga> Son_Goku: those are pretty tiny and probably just neglected
[11:13] <zyga> Son_Goku: but should be easy to fix
[11:13] <Son_Goku> the bug tracking has been broken for a couple of years, and I think disabled for nearly as long
[11:14] <zyga> Son_Goku: yeah, niche feature
[11:14] <zyga> Son_Goku: I think we need to report a bug / talk to cjwatson
[11:15] <Son_Goku> well, I personally like being able to tie upstream and downstream bugs together and have them tracked and injected into the bug report
[11:15] <Son_Goku> it helps keep everyone in the loop, so to speak
[11:15] <zyga> Son_Goku: yeah, that's why this feature exists here but it doesn't work perfectly everywhere
[11:15] <zyga> Son_Goku: we had some issues and the github tracker was fixed
[11:16] <zyga> offtopic, I got some set of nylon screws and standoffs so that my boards don't just lay flat on the desk
[11:16] <zyga> but ... obviously... wrong size for everyone
[11:16] <Son_Goku> O.o
[11:16] <zyga> pi2, pi3, dragon, ci20
[11:16] <zyga> eh
[11:16] <zyga> why doesn't anyone think about consistency
[11:16] <zyga> especially for casual folks like us here, not mechanical engineers that love the 10s of marginally different screws they can use
[11:16] <zyga> or have easy and well-understood supply chain
[11:17] <zyga> dragon has smaller screws holes than anyone else, ci20 has huge holes :/
[11:17] <Son_Goku> it's super annoying
[11:17] <Son_Goku> had the same problem with the Pine vs the Pi3 vs Pi2
[11:18] <zyga> and no sata :D
[11:18] <zyga> oh, I have one more board
[11:18] <zyga> I forgot about it
[11:18] <zyga> I mean plenty of others but this runs linux
[11:18] <zyga> orange pi
[11:18] <zyga> one of the gazillion variants
[11:18] <Son_Goku> the ARM ecosystem just depresses me
[11:19] <Son_Goku> so much potential, but so bloody screwy
[11:19] <zyga> but we're stuck with it
[11:19] <zyga> wow
[11:19] <zyga> actually, this last board has sane screw holders
[11:19] <zyga> go figure...
[11:19] <Son_Goku> at least Red Hat and Linaro made the server ARM boards not stupid
[11:19] <Son_Goku> but goddamn
[11:19] <zyga> yes
[11:20] <zyga> no matter how I hate firmware
[11:20] <zyga> this is a good thing
[11:20] <zyga> (acpi and all that stuff)
[11:20] <zyga> btw, snapd for mageia?
[11:20] <Son_Goku> in 2017, over 85% (and I'm being generous here) of all ARM boards requires special snowflake firmware
[11:20] <zyga> sync from fedora or do we need a new package?
[11:20] <Son_Goku> zyga: mostly sync from Fedora
[11:20] <zyga> well, it's like a micro controller world really :)
[11:20] <Son_Goku> just need to disable mandatory installation of the selinux subpackage
[11:21] <Son_Goku> and since we still need AppArmor fixes upstreamed, still no confinement goodness
[11:21] <Son_Goku> technically, Mageia currently uses TOMOYO
[11:21] <Son_Goku> but nobody really supports it, so *shrugs*
[11:22] <zyga> isn't it a thing in some vertical market?
[11:22] <zyga> automotive/
[11:22] <Son_Goku> yes
[11:22] <zyga> or something like htat
[11:22] <zyga> it's a japanese invention
[11:22] <Son_Goku> yep
[11:23] <zyga> like ruby
[11:23] <zyga> :D
[11:23] <zyga> speaking of which
[11:23] <zyga> I want to do my own thing today
[11:23] <zyga> no work :)
[11:23] <zyga> so after I'm done with the boards
[11:23] <Son_Goku> well, the gratuitous use of capital letters is indicative of Japaneseness :)
[11:23] <zyga> I'll blog some more
[11:23] <zyga> and work on rob
[11:23] <Son_Goku> rob?
[11:23] <zyga> rob is my sandbox for creativity and just sheer NIH :D
[11:23] <zyga> rob = make
[11:23] <Son_Goku> ah right
[11:24] <zyga> rób :-)
[11:24] <zyga> (ó is pronounced exactly like u)
[11:24] <Son_Goku> so... like rub or rube?
[11:25] <zyga> not like US "r" (a-r) more like plain rrrr
[11:25] <zyga> rrrr-u-b (short u)
[11:25] <zyga> heh
[11:25] <zyga> I wanted to add a feature
[11:26] <zyga> rob --pronounce (or something)
[11:26] <zyga> that has a wave table inside
[11:26] <zyga> and just plays it
[11:26] <Son_Goku> haha
[11:27] <zyga> I was thinking about a new license as well
[11:27] <zyga> SSL (sustainable software license)
[11:27] <zyga> the name sucks :)
[11:27] <Son_Goku> :/
[11:27] <zyga> the idea is that it is proprietary with escrow so it turns to a pre-determined FOSS license if abandoned
[11:28] <zyga> so you'd be able to sell new copies
[11:28] <Son_Goku> please don't make custom licenses for the fucks
[11:28] <Son_Goku> you know what happens when you do
[11:28] <zyga> but would not die if I stop caring
[11:28] <zyga> well, I think it's a real problem for today FOSS software
[11:28] <zyga> it's hard to fund
[11:28] <zyga> it's just an idea
[11:28] <zyga> I don't need to put everything into one box
[11:29] <zyga> and rob is just a toy for now
[11:29] <zyga> but if one could really sell FOSS software (practically, not like today but not really) at low price in high volume I think world would be better
[11:31] <zyga> would you buy a program for $5 knowing that it becomes GPL if you don't get an update in 12 months?
[11:42] <zyga> Son_Goku: ah, sorry got disconnected
[11:42] <zyga> all the boards have stand offs now :)
[11:42] <Son_Goku> heh
[11:43] <Son_Goku> today is going to be the day where I spend most of my time playing Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild
[11:43] <Son_Goku> I have a Nintendo Switch and my god, it's amazing
[11:43] <zyga> Son_Goku: ooooooooh
[11:43] <zyga> Son_Goku: tell me
[11:43] <zyga> Son_Goku: I love zelda
[11:43] <zyga> Son_Goku: did you get the switch?
[11:43] <zyga> Son_Goku: or the wii u version?
[11:43] <Son_Goku> yes
[11:43] <Son_Goku> Switch version, ofc
[11:43] <zyga> Son_Goku: ohhh!
[11:43] <zyga> Son_Goku: tell me! how do you like it?
[11:43] <Son_Goku> it's awesome
[11:43] <zyga> Son_Goku: bot the console and the game
[11:43] <Son_Goku> the Joy-Cons are a literal joy to use
[11:44] <zyga> Son_Goku: ooooh :-( I don't have it yet
[11:44] <Son_Goku> 1-2-Switch game made it easy to really pick it up and get familiar
[11:44] <zyga> Son_Goku: I was thinking about buying horizon zero dawn as it's not as $$$ as a new game *and* a new device
[11:44] <Son_Goku> and they really did a good job emulating real-world feel with the haptics
[11:44] <zyga> Son_Goku: did you play on the go?
[11:44] <Son_Goku> I've done a bit of that, yes
[11:45] <zyga> Son_Goku: does it play equally well?
[11:45] <zyga> Son_Goku: is the framerate the same?
[11:45] <zyga> Son_Goku: and is the screen good?
[11:47] <Son_Goku> the screen is very nice, and the framerate is good, most of the time
[11:47] <Son_Goku> there's some moments where it slows down a bit, particularly when there's lots of actively moving things
[11:47] <Son_Goku> but it doesn't happen often enough to be concerning
[11:47] <zyga> Son_Goku: but does that happen only while on the go? I'm trying to understand if it's slower when on batter
[11:47] <zyga> battery
[11:48] <Son_Goku> when not connected to the TV, it's actually better
[11:48] <Son_Goku> less pixels to push
[11:48] <zyga> oh, curious :)
[11:49] <zyga> Son_Goku: and the actual game
[11:49] <Son_Goku> battery life is about 3.5~4 hours with Zelda
[11:49] <Son_Goku> supposedly the battery capacity lends itself well for 8 hours, but who knows?
[11:52] <zyga> Son_Goku: how far did you get into the game?
[11:53] <Son_Goku> I'm not too far in yet, I've only gotten to two shrines, and I have to get to two more before I get a paraglider to get further along
[11:53] <Son_Goku> but damn, the world is HUGE and somewhat challenging to navigate
[11:53] <zyga> Son_Goku: bring it to the next snappy sprint :)
[11:53] <Son_Goku> if there is one, I will :)
[11:53] <zyga> Son_Goku: my kids have nintendo 3DSes but they rarely game
[11:54] <zyga> Son_Goku: nowadays it's just the PS4
[11:54] <zyga> Son_Goku: star wars battlefront for my son and lots of gentle games for my daughter (she adores flower)
[11:54] <zyga> Son_Goku: they played zeldas but still too challenging for my son (he hates reading)
[11:54] <Son_Goku> I usually bring my 3DS with me wherever I go
[11:54] <Son_Goku> but this time around, I'll be able to bring a real console too :D
[11:55] <zyga> ha, indeed :)
[11:56] <zyga> Son_Goku: what do you plan to do after you finish zelda
[11:56] <zyga> Son_Goku: with each new console lack of games is a risk
[11:57] <Son_Goku> well, I have another game on the way, it just isn't here yet :)
[11:57] <zyga> Son_Goku: and nintendo and shun-3rd-party approach is an extra factor
[11:57] <Son_Goku> they've done the opposite this time
[11:57] <Son_Goku> even freaking Skyrim is going to be on the Switch
[11:57] <zyga> Son_Goku: well but skyrim is ooold
[11:57] <Son_Goku> that's not the point
[11:57] <zyga> Son_Goku: and I played it years ago after getting it for 10 euro
[11:57] <Son_Goku> it's a third party vendor who historically doesn't do Nintendo
[11:58] <zyga> Son_Goku: my point is that unless they bring *new* stuff 3rd party is not that fun (spend 60 to play skyrim)
[11:58] <zyga> Son_Goku: I hope you are right :)
[12:01] <Son_Goku> but regardless, there's still a huge catalog of Nintendo games to release too
[12:03] <zyga> Son_Goku: well, but for adults most are nooooot that fun
[12:03] <zyga> Son_Goku: I love mario
[12:03] <zyga> Son_Goku: but what else is there
[12:04] <Son_Goku> I'd like to consider myself an "Adult(TM)"
[12:04] <zyga> AFON
[12:04] <zyga> adult fan of nintendo
[12:04] <zyga> ;D
[12:04] <Son_Goku> I find the Donkey Kong stuff fun, the Sonic games coming are also looking to be quite good
[12:05] <Son_Goku> though Sonic is SEGA, not Nintendo
[12:05] <zyga> isn't sega done and a part of EA now?
[12:05] <Son_Goku> they're still owned by Sega-Sammy Holdings
[12:06] <Son_Goku> they acquired Technosoft last year
[12:07] <zyga> Son_Goku: I'd love to see some new IP show up, something fres
[12:07] <zyga> fresh*
[12:07] <zyga> not another mario/zelda/metroid spin
[12:07] <Son_Goku> oh, Splatoon is very fun
[12:07] <zyga> or open switch to indie games
[12:07] <Son_Goku> oh you didn't hear?
[12:08] <Son_Goku> Switch is actually going to be opening to indie games
[12:09] <Son_Goku> http://indieobscura.com/article/817/confirmed-nintendo-switch-indie-game-lineup
[12:10] <Son_Goku> I actually ordered Has-Been Heroes
[12:11] <zyga> mmm, interesting
[12:11] <Son_Goku> more details on the "Switch": http://www.theverge.com/2017/3/1/14777672/nintendo-switch-indie-games-releases
[12:11] <zyga> so back to licenses
[12:12] <Son_Goku> hm?
[12:12] <zyga> Son_Goku: would you pay for a game on Linux?
[12:12] <zyga> Son_Goku: (say inside a snap as that's the only format that is open for any publisher and has a payment system)
[12:13] <Son_Goku> I pay for Linux games quite often, actually
[12:13] <Son_Goku> but portability is a huge problem
[12:13] <Son_Goku> frankly, I would not today with snap
[12:13] <Son_Goku> and as a game dev, I don't even like snapping my game right now
[12:14] <Son_Goku> admittedly, my game is freely available and open source
[12:14] <Son_Goku> but still
[12:14] <zyga> Son_Goku: what risks or issues do you see?
[12:14] <Son_Goku> well, the main issue is that custom hardware and GL issues still plague it
[12:14] <Son_Goku> custom game pads are a pain to make work normally anyway
[12:14] <Son_Goku> but this adds another level of pain
[12:15] <zyga> Son_Goku: I think we know what the solution is
[12:15] <zyga> Son_Goku: but needs some focus to get there
[12:15] <zyga> Son_Goku: stuff like proprietary 3D stacks need to become snaps so there's no ABI issue
[12:15] <Son_Goku> one of my friends who works on a game engine project was approached about snapping it, and he didn't feel like it was worth it
[12:16] <Son_Goku> he had two big problems with it:
[12:16] <Son_Goku> 1. He despises developing on the Ubuntu platform
[12:16] <Son_Goku> 2. Most of the things he needs to work don't currently in snaps
[12:17] <zyga> Son_Goku: what are the 2. things that don't work?
[12:17] <Son_Goku> well, there didn't seem to be an easy or obvious way to link game content to the engine runtime snap
[12:17] <zyga> Son_Goku: (even in devmode?)
[12:18] <zyga> Son_Goku: ah so he wants a two-snap solution?
[12:18] <Son_Goku> and of course, custom hardware support is basically nil
[12:18] <Son_Goku> for developing games, that's absolutely critical to have
[12:18] <zyga> Son_Goku: any reason to pursue that today? one snap approach is far better for now
[12:18] <zyga> what custom hardware?
[12:18] <zyga> controllers?
[12:18] <zyga> or GPUs?
[12:18] <Son_Goku> controllers, GPUs, midi devices, etc.
[12:18] <zyga> Son_Goku: I'm surprised because I suspect that most things that people play would run in snaps without issues
[12:19] <Son_Goku> if you need a midi device, you're SOL
[12:19] <zyga> Son_Goku: controllers = USB interface and it's all solved (probably 5 controllers covers 99% of the planet)
[12:19] <zyga> Son_Goku: midi = dead (for gaming)
[12:19] <zyga> Son_Goku: and GPU is well known and solvable
[12:19] <Son_Goku> for music composition, it's not
[12:19] <zyga> Son_Goku: we're not talking about niche music making stuff but games
[12:19] <Son_Goku> game composers do it too
[12:19] <Son_Goku> especially for those "retro" games
[12:19] <Son_Goku> you know what I'm talking about
[12:20] <zyga> but those don't use midi to play it in the end
[12:20] <Son_Goku> no they don't
[12:20] <zyga> nobody has midi hardware in their device
[12:20] <zyga> so for game making
[12:20] <zyga> fine use whatever
[12:20] <zyga> after that there's no midi issue
[12:20] <zyga> so?
[12:20] <Son_Goku> the engine is a game development toolkit too
[12:20] <Son_Goku> engine includes runtime plus editor and manipulator
[12:20] <zyga> Son_Goku: fine, that can be shipped in whatever form
[12:20] <zyga> Son_Goku: after the game is done
[12:20] <Son_Goku> yes, yes
[12:21] <Son_Goku> but he was approached on making the engine tools snapped too
[12:21]  * Son_Goku shrugs
[12:21] <zyga> Son_Goku: is there an actual issue?
[12:21] <zyga> Son_Goku: what is the actual issue then?
[12:21] <zyga> Son_Goku: it's not midi
[12:21] <zyga> Son_Goku: ah, well, that's another story
[12:21] <zyga> Son_Goku: I think that's really phase 2
[12:21] <zyga> Son_Goku: phase one is a format for games to sell and play anywhere
[12:21] <Son_Goku> of course, when the engine tooling renders the output game, it's not using midi
[12:21] <Son_Goku> that would be stupid
[12:25] <zyga> Son_Goku: one thing gaming sucks about is cross-buy
[12:25] <zyga> Son_Goku: I got stardew valley on gog
[12:25] <zyga> Son_Goku: I dont want to re-buy on other platforms
[12:25] <Son_Goku> yeah
[12:26] <zyga> Son_Goku: gog<->steam connect is the step in that direction
[12:26] <zyga> Son_Goku: I'd love to see gog<->snap as well if they can do it
[12:27] <zyga> Son_Goku: I think it could be a boom for snaps
[12:27] <zyga> Son_Goku: seed your snap library with your gog games
[12:27] <zyga> Son_Goku: show that it works
[12:27] <Son_Goku> that'd be hard though
[12:27] <zyga> Son_Goku: show that it is convenient
[12:27] <zyga> Son_Goku: why?
[12:27] <Son_Goku> because the snap store API is unstable
[12:27] <zyga> Son_Goku: and who would be affected by that?
[12:28] <Son_Goku> gogs mainly
[12:28] <Son_Goku> no one wants to deal with that shit
[12:28] <zyga> Son_Goku: there's no api for something like connect, if there was anything like this happening that API would be stable
[12:28] <zyga> Son_Goku: besides, it is a specialized api that only two people would use
[12:28] <zyga> Son_Goku: (gog, humble bundle, maybe steam)
[12:28] <zyga> Son_Goku: as snap developer or user nobody would see that
[12:28] <zyga> Son_Goku: I think it's compelling
[12:29] <Son_Goku> it is compelling
[12:29] <Son_Goku> as long no one breaks it :)
[12:30] <zyga> Son_Goku: I think after you "own" it it's not going to be broken even if the connection part is disabled for some reason
[12:30] <zyga> Son_Goku: I should try to snap that doom game
[12:30] <zyga> Son_Goku: doom == dosbox + data
[12:30] <Son_Goku> that game would be relatively easy to do
[12:30] <zyga> but first...
[12:30] <zyga> spring cleaning
[17:38] <mup> PR snapd#3080 closed: interfaces: remove old API <Created by stolowski> <Merged by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3080>
[17:39] <mup> PR snapd#3068 closed: boot: log error in KernelOrOsRebootRequired <Created by zyga> <Merged by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3068>


[21:54] <belkinsa> Meeting in an hour!
[21:55] <Unit193> Oh, right.  jrgifford: Be alive! :P
[21:56] <belkinsa> Is everyone like not greyed out on the user's list here in this channel...weird.
[22:44] <Unit193> Geeeeez.  Russ Allbery, who is a ctte member, doesn't even like Drivers Licenses as a form of identification, mainly just passports.  I may be screwed after all. :/
[22:53]  * skellat takes a break before meeting time tonight
[22:53] <belkinsa> OMG, welcome back.
[22:53] <belkinsa> Do you have an introduction to give?
[22:53] <skellat> Are we already in the midst of meeting time?
[22:54] <skellat> Or have I gone beyond that long?
[22:54] <skellat> :-)
[22:54] <belkinsa> Lol, you have news to bring.
[22:55] <belkinsa> Less than five minutes befor ethe meeting!
[22:55] <belkinsa> before the*
[22:59] <belkinsa> Oh, skellat, I was reffering to the matter at hand.
[23:00] <belkinsa> Who is here for the meeting?
[23:00]  * belkinsa starts the meeting
[23:00] <skellat> o/
[23:01] <belkinsa> Anyone else, jrgifford, Unit193, drkokandy?
[23:02] <drkokandy> here
[23:02] <belkinsa> Alright, is three enough to start the meeting, skellat?
[23:03] <skellat> belkinsa: We can start but I highly advise taking this to the mailing list after our initial discussion
[23:03] <belkinsa> RIght, I was thinking the same.
[23:03] <belkinsa> Before I start, I believe we have some news from skellat.
[23:04] <belkinsa> I'm turning it over to skellat for the news.
[23:04] <skellat> My superiors at the Internal Revenue Service have informed me that my services are no longer required and that I will be placed on furlough as from the Close of Business on June 27th.  I will be able to play a much more active role in the community's life during furlough.
[23:06] <skellat> This will be especially the case as I won't be missing from 0530 to 1915 daily between work hours and round-trip commute to the work site after next Friday
[23:06] <skellat> Back to you, belkinsa
[23:06] <belkinsa> Alright.
[23:08] <belkinsa>  Beth Lynn Eicher one of the OLF organizers sent an e-mail to skellat, Unit193, jrgifford, and me saying that they are offering a table for free for the UbuCOn on Oct 24, 2014.  Since they are offering this, I think we need to plan for this and see if we can do this with inside and outside the LoCo help.
[23:09] <belkinsa> And our topics for this meeting are from that e-mail.
[23:10] <skellat> belkinsa: We got downgraded from a room to a table?
[23:10] <belkinsa> Yes.  But I didn't remember saying anything about a room.
[23:11] <belkinsa> No, space.  Sorry.
[23:12] <belkinsa> "> I am reaching out to you to see if there was interest from the Ohio
[23:12] <belkinsa> > Ubuntu LoCo in participating in the Ohio LinuxFest. We are prepared to
[23:12] <belkinsa> > gift the space to you, gratis, on the Friday of the conference:
[23:12] <belkinsa> > October 24, 2014."
[23:12] <Unit193> Biggest issue will be getting talks lined up.
[23:12] <belkinsa> So, I don't know as of yet what it is.
[23:12]  * skellat wipes sweat from his brow after worrying that OLF was having yet more money problems
[23:13] <skellat> Okay...as to space, we got a conference room type area at the convention center in Columbus
[23:13] <skellat> Seats about 100 people
[23:13] <belkinsa> Unit193, yeah, I forgot about the talks but that is Oct 25, right?
[23:14] <skellat> Lotsa chairs, space at the front to speak...and nothing said by OLF about A/V equipment yet again
[23:14] <skellat> UbuCon always falls on a FRIDAY
[23:14] <belkinsa> Alright
[23:14] <skellat> So it would fall on October 24th
[23:14] <belkinsa> Ah, I see now.
[23:14] <belkinsa> This will be my first one.
[23:15] <belkinsa> They said that they can provide speakers if needed.
[23:15] <belkinsa> That's the third item for this meeting
[23:16] <jrgifford> yup
[23:16] <belkinsa> But the first is will we commit to this.
[23:16] <jrgifford> (sorry, i'm late)
[23:16] <skellat> It is okay
[23:16] <belkinsa> It's cool.
[23:16] <jrgifford> well, we can only commit if we have speakers
[23:16] <belkinsa> Right.
[23:16] <jrgifford> or at least a idea of what we're going to want to have presented
[23:17] <belkinsa> Would be too late if we get some speakers from the other LoCo's within USA?
[23:17] <skellat> belkinsa: Not really
[23:17] <skellat> The now-leader of Colorado spoke at UbuCon last year
[23:17] <belkinsa> Perfect, we need to live up that LoCo contacts list anyways.
[23:18] <skellat> Could also ask if Elizabeth Krumbach Joseph is available from California team
[23:18] <belkinsa> She said that she can't/
[23:18] <skellat> I see you're exercising your initiative.  Excellent.
[23:19] <skellat> drkokandy, which speakers did you like last year?
[23:19] <belkinsa> Alright.
[23:19] <belkinsa> #ACTION Make a call for speakers for OLF 2014 on LoCo Contact ML
[23:19] <Unit193> Well Darkwing still idles here, means he must at least half like us. ;)
[23:19] <belkinsa> belkinsa's action Item
[23:20] <belkinsa> Didn't he say that he will in the last meeting?
[23:21]  * skellat casually reminds belkinsa that that the meeting bot isn't here and that minutes have to be kept manually :-)
[23:21] <belkinsa> I know.
[23:21] <belkinsa> I was in two meetings where the bot was missing.
[23:21] <drkokandy> that community computing session was really interesting, as well as the session by Jorge Castro
[23:21] <belkinsa> It's a habit.
[23:22] <drkokandy> I'm trying to remember what was Friday and what was Saturday
[23:22] <skellat> drkokandy: Friday was me playing showman, Saturday was me handing out business cards
[23:22] <skellat> Saturday was also iced tea from $GOOG
[23:22] <drkokandy> that doesn't really help me remember what day featured which speakers :)
[23:23] <belkinsa> There is a list message with the audio link to them...
[23:24] <drkokandy> Here's a list
[23:24] <drkokandy> https://archive.org/details/OhioLinuxfest2013
[23:24] <jenni> [ Ohio LinuxFest 2013 : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive ] - https://j.mp/UZS3wM
[23:24] <belkinsa> Thanks
[23:25] <drkokandy> The roundtable was good, although I feel like we could have gotten more people involved
[23:25] <skellat> The roundtable was me improvising
[23:25] <drkokandy> I was a little late, so I came in in the middle of Why Ubuntu
[23:25] <drkokandy> the BIOS/UEFI session was really informative, I remember
[23:25] <skellat> One of the scheduled presentations went way too short so the roundtable was me doing improvisation to keep things going
[23:26] <belkinsa> At what time was this on that day?
[23:26] <drkokandy> Ah, that's right
[23:26] <skellat> Right after lunch
[23:26] <Unit193> Keysigning on Friday too?
[23:26] <belkinsa> So a full day.  Okay, thanks.
[23:27] <skellat> I only ended up signing one key...drkokandy's
[23:27] <skellat> I did the Friday planning in hour blocks
[23:28] <Unit193> Well, it may be moot anywho. :)
[23:28] <skellat> Unit193: What may be moot?
[23:30] <skellat> Oh
[23:30] <skellat> You're being subtle
[23:31] <skellat> Remember, I work for the Treasury and not any entity based at Fort Meade
[23:31] <belkinsa> So...moving on?
[23:32] <skellat> OLF made their request of what they want as a session but what else do we want to show about *buntu?
[23:32] <belkinsa> Do you argee to hold some desktop basic content? If needed, we can provide the speakers for this component.   Here is one
[23:33] <Unit193> Thinking something short about flavors would be nice.
[23:33] <belkinsa> Maybe Ubuntu Touch runing a emi on the desktop?
[23:33] <belkinsa> Unit193, +1
[23:34]  * skellat notes that leadership of USA locos is shifting to Xubuntu users increasingly
[23:35] <Unit193> You, pleia, not sure who else.
[23:35] <skellat> Possibly soon to be Nebraska
[23:35] <skellat> There's a forced Change of Contact proceeding before LoCo Council right now
[23:35] <belkinsa> So, flavours and Ubuntu Touch and it's core apps?
[23:36] <belkinsa> Does it all have to be about the desktop?  Can there something about the Community>
[23:37] <skellat> Focus on the tech the first hour, Communitize The Community afterwards
[23:37] <Unit193> Or servers, or whatever.
[23:37] <belkinsa> That could work.
[23:37] <belkinsa> I have an idea for a Community based speech.
[23:39] <skellat> Canonical may or may not have appointed a new Community Manager by then too so as to replace Jono Bacon
[23:40] <belkinsa> Yeah, plus he said that he wasn't able to make it.
[23:41] <belkinsa> I asked him in one of is Q&A sessions.
[23:41] <skellat> belkinsa: Did you ask anybody at FSF?  Is paultag able to represent the Sunlight Foundation to talk about the F/LOSS stuff they do?
[23:41] <belkinsa> No, who are they?
[23:41] <belkinsa> FSF ^^^
[23:41] <skellat> FSF: Free Software Foundation
[23:42] <skellat> Richard M. Stallman's people
[23:42] <belkinsa> Ah, no.  Good idea though.
[23:45] <Unit193> We could sneak a Debian talk in...
[23:45] <skellat> I was thinking about the FSF campaign recently over "E-mail Self Defense" that might be worthwhile to bring up again
[23:46] <belkinsa> Sure.
[23:47] <belkinsa> It seems  that we can do the UbuCon after all if everything works.
[23:49] <belkinsa> And we can move to this over to the mailing list.
[23:49] <Unit193> paultag: Going to OLF right?
[23:50] <belkinsa> Unit193, it's Saturday, it's his day off.
[23:50] <belkinsa> ;)
[23:53] <skellat> Thank you everybody for making it today
[23:53] <skellat> s/today/tonight/
[23:53] <jenni> skellat probably meant to say: Thank you everybody for making it tonight
[23:53] <belkinsa> Indeed.  Thank you.
[23:54]  * skellat heads off to dinner
[23:54] <Unit193> On another note, lower turn out.


[14:28] <tsdgeos> Saviq: any chance you might have a stream with RST information?
[14:28] <Saviq> tsdgeos, nope :/
[14:29] <Saviq> tsdgeos, my dvb-t is... new
[14:29] <Saviq> young
[14:29] <tsdgeos> feed it so it grows :)
[14:34] <Saviq> I could try with DVB-S... actually let me dvbsnoop it
[14:40]  * tsdgeos wonders when he'll get his dvb-t caputre stuff
[14:40] <tsdgeos> ebay said it was sent a few days ago
[14:40] <tsdgeos> but...
[14:45] <Saviq> tsdgeos, I'll scan some of the suspects on HotBird, maybe someone does send nice stuff
[14:45] <tsdgeos> cool
[16:06] <tsdgeos> oh man
[16:06] <tsdgeos> the RCT is biiiig :D
[16:31] <Saviq> tsdgeos, I (think I) scanned all transponders on S13E... not one has anything on pid 0x13 (RST)
[16:31] <tsdgeos> :/
[16:33] <Saviq> trying Astra now
[16:33] <Saviq> gonna be difficult to grab RCT
[16:34] <Saviq> I'm not even sure where to expect it...
[16:35] <Saviq> ah ok, so PMT will hold info _whether_ RCT is being sent at all
[16:35] <Saviq> and then tell us where to expect it
[16:35] <Saviq> (it seems)
[16:37] <tsdgeos> i'm still a bit lost regarding RCT
[16:37] <tsdgeos> there's a few descriptor() mentions
[16:38] <tsdgeos> and i'm not sure which descriptor can appear there
[16:40] <Saviq> indeed
[16:44] <Saviq> tsdgeos, btw here's some more info http://www.ebu.ch/metadata/cs/tva/HowRelatedCS.xml
[16:44] <Saviq> the urn:metadata:cs... seem to reference those
[16:45] <tsdgeos> i see
[16:47] <Saviq> there's a "metadata pointer descriptor" mentioned
[16:51] <tsdgeos> leaving for the weekend now, will have a more through look on monday
[16:51] <tsdgeos> enjoy!
[17:01] <Saviq> oh! found a RST


[02:42] <cwayne> huh, so the messaging indicator is now green, but the LED is blue
[02:45] <cwayne> also holy shit departments in ubuntu store scope
[03:03] <liuxg> does anyone meet the following error when deploying to phone? :-1: error: Could not connect to host: No private key file given.Did the emulator fail to start?
[04:42] <lotuspsychje> morning
[04:42] <lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2014/07/ubuntu-touch-apps-pass-100k-downloads-ahead-first-hardware
[04:42] <lotuspsychje> nice work guys
[06:50] <dholbach> good morning
[08:16] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy US Independence Day! :-D
[11:04] <pignacio> Hi, was checking this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/DualBootInstallation , and there are some broken includes below the Requirements section
[11:25] <nik90_> rsalveti: ping
[11:45] <oSoMoN> didrocks, hey, I need a review for trivial packaging changes to webbrowser-app (adding a -doc package), would you have a moment sometime today to look at it? https://code.launchpad.net/~osomon/webbrowser-app/doc-package/+merge/225647
[11:53] <didrocks> oSoMoN: will have a look!
[11:53] <oSoMoN> thanks!
[12:25] <ogra_> mterry, note that i'm working on a change to adb to disaloow root login at all ... sudo will be required
[12:26] <mterry> ogra_, oh really?
[12:26] <ogra_> yes, thats part of developer mode
[12:26] <mterry> ogra_, what's the entry point?  Does 'adb shell' give you a phablet shell?
[12:26] <ogra_> adb will only drop you into phablet soon
[12:26] <ogra_> yes
[12:27] <mterry> ogra_, interesting.  So maybe phablet-shell isn't the right place to fix this
[12:29] <ogra_> mterry, dropping the password and sudo support isnt ...
[12:29] <mterry> ogra_, isn't what?
[12:29] <ogra_> mterry, developer mode with only be enableable if you have a lockscreen pw/number/pattern set
[12:30] <mterry> ogra_, oh really?  that's convenient
[12:30] <mterry> ogra_, then I guess I don't have to do anything
[12:30] <ogra_> so we can go with the default pw for automation imho ... then sergio doesnt need to override so much stuff if you flash with --developer-mode
[12:31] <mterry> ogra_, well I don't like considering the arbitrary string 'phablet' as the 'default password'
[12:32] <mterry> ogra_, so --developer-mode will give you adb without setting a password then...  OK
[12:32] <ogra_> we will need something that keeps automated testing working
[12:32] <ogra_> not sure how sergio planned to do that in ubuntu-device-flash
[12:32] <ogra_> rsalveti, ^^^ do you happen to knwo ?
[12:33] <mterry> ogra_, that's also interesting because we'd have to do it at flash time probably.  We can't modify the system to allow sudo unless we can get root access
[12:34] <ogra_> mterry, we cant disallow sudo
[12:34] <ogra_> that would break a lot of stuff i learned ... seems the security team binds a lot functionality to the sudo group
[12:34] <mterry> ogra_, I get that (and it's not disallowing, it's just sudo doesn't like empty passwords in remote shells)
[12:35] <ogra_> yes
[12:35] <mterry> ogra_, so we don't need to worry about normal user case -- developer mode only exists when a password is set
[12:35] <ogra_> right
[12:36] <mterry> ogra_, so just the testing case, which can be fixed if you do --developer-mode by dropping a sudoers file in place probably
[12:36] <ogra_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AboutThisDevice#developer-mode
[12:37] <mterry> ogra_, but yeah I'd like to see how sergio plans to change --developer-mode
[12:37] <ogra_> lets wait til he is around
[12:38] <ogra_> mterry, what are you doing here, shouldnt you burn fireworks, drink beer and eat barbecued sausage ?
[12:38] <mterry> ogra_, I should be yeah
[13:00] <oSoMoN> didrocks, thanks for the review! regarding the failing tests, this is not expected, do you have the output of the test run?
[13:01] <didrocks> oSoMoN: sure, you just want the stdout, nothing else?
[13:01] <oSoMoN> didrocks, that would be a good start
[13:01] <didrocks> one sec
[13:03] <didrocks> oSoMoN: here we go: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7747010/
[13:03] <didrocks> oSoMoN: I'm on trusty if that counts (or if a dep isn't bump appropriatly)
[13:04] <aquarius> I'd like to file a big about the "first run wizard" on the phone -- the one that makes you select a language, tells you that you don't have a SIM, and so on. Which project is it in?
[13:04] <aquarius> s/big/bug/ :)
[13:04] <didrocks> Cimi: it's unity8 or u-s-s (I know there is a little bit of code in both)? ^
[13:05] <aquarius> aha, so no I don't, slangasek filed it already :) https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-system-settings/+bug/1336181
[13:05] <oSoMoN> didrocks, right, the trunk doesn’t run on trusty, it requires a newer version of oxide which is in utopic only atm (but will hit trusty-updates soon)
[13:05] <didrocks> oSoMoN: please bump the dep/build-dep then ;)
[13:06] <oSoMoN> didrocks, ok, will do
[13:06] <didrocks> thanks!
[13:06] <Cimi> didrocks, u s s
[13:06] <didrocks> aquarius: I'm not surprised Steve filed that one for the record :p
[13:07] <didrocks> thanks Cimi
[13:27] <oSoMoN> didrocks, https://code.launchpad.net/~osomon/webbrowser-app/bump-oxide-dependency/+merge/225666 if you don’t mind approving
[13:28] <didrocks> oSoMoN: done!
[13:57] <charles> Cimi, ping
[13:57] <Cimi> charles, pong
[13:57] <charles> Cimi, thostr_ has silo 3 ready for the transfer indicator pieces
[13:57] <Cimi> charles, no independence day for you? :)
[13:58] <charles> Cimi, did you get a chance to review https://code.launchpad.net/~nick-dedekind/ubuntu-settings-components/transfer-menu/+merge/224672 ?
[13:58] <Cimi> rtying!
[13:58] <Cimi> go partying!
[13:58] <charles> Cimi, well, officially I'm not here... but I was online checking my mail / etc anyway
[13:58] <Cimi> ahah ok
[13:58] <charles> Cimi, so I made the mistake of checking my canonical mail too :)
[13:58] <Cimi> I started reviewing 5 mins ago
[13:59] <charles> Cimi, cool, thanks
[13:59] <charles> Cimi, could you ping thostr_ when you finish? He's eager
[14:00] <thostr_> charles: Cimi: https://ci-train.ubuntu.com/job/landing-004-1-build/114/console
[14:00] <thostr_> charles: Cimi: seems there is a merge conflict
[14:00] <charles> dednick: ^
[14:01] <dednick> charles: yes. dealing
[14:08] <dednick> charles, thostr_: fixed conflicts
[14:08] <thostr_> dednick: thanks. rebuilding...
[14:09] <dednick> Saviq: can we land https://code.launchpad.net/~nick-dedekind/ubuntu-settings-components/menu.plugin/+merge/224616 ?
[14:12] <Cimi> dednick, shall we set visible falt for the stateLabel when the text is empty?
[14:13] <Cimi> false
[14:14] <Saviq> dednick, sure we can
[14:14] <Saviq> dednick, do we want the transfer menu to go in as well?
[14:17] <dednick> Saviq: yup. it's dependent on the plugin one.
[14:17] <Saviq> dednick, reviewing now
[14:17] <dednick> Saviq: thanks.
[14:18] <dednick> Saviq: Cimi is doing the review now actually
[14:18] <dednick> Cimi: er, i'll take a quick look. cant remember what i did
[14:19] <Cimi> dednick, it's just visible: active
[14:19] <Cimi> I'd change to active && text != ""
[14:19] <Cimi> although being in a columnlayout probably won't change visually anything
[14:19] <dednick> Cimi: ah. meh. no need
[14:20] <dednick> Cimi: it always has some state anyway
[14:20] <dednick> in practical usage
[14:20] <Cimi> dednick, the text is always set?
[14:21] <Cimi> not in the menu item factory
[14:21] <dednick> Cimi: unless it's in an unknown state
[14:22] <dednick> Cimi: in which case it won't be active
[14:23] <Cimi> dednick, just asked a small test for active true or false
[14:23] <dednick> Cimi: ok
[14:28] <Cimi> Saviq, got more reviews for me?
[14:29] <Saviq> Cimi, not sure why here, but all the launcher ones are nice and small and I'd like to get rid of them ;)
[14:29] <Cimi> ok
[14:29] <Saviq> Cimi, and you could strong-arm mzanetti into fixing the icons on launcher
[14:29] <Cimi> ok
[14:29] <Cimi> sure
[14:29] <mzanetti> what?
[14:30] <mzanetti> what's wrong with the icons in the launcher?
[14:30] <mzanetti> Cimi: ^
[14:30] <Cimi> mzanetti, didn't test your branch yet
[14:30] <Cimi> mzanetti, but the highlights and inset around icons is wrong
[14:31] <Cimi> doesn't match ubuntushape
[14:31] <mzanetti> Cimi: yeah, review those launcher branches already :P
[14:31] <mzanetti> will fix it all :D
[14:31] <mzanetti> I hope
[14:31] <mzanetti> unless the switch to suru messed it up again
[14:34] <dednick> Cimi: test added
[15:14] <ultrabenosaurus> I'm thinking about flashing the latest Touch image to my Nexus 4 via ClockworkMod Recovery
[15:14] <ultrabenosaurus> which files do I need to flash from this directory? http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-touch/daily-preinstalled/current/
[15:25] <Wellark> Laney: could you take a new look at: https://code.launchpad.net/~unity-api-team/ubuntu-system-settings/hotspot/+merge/224399
[15:25] <Wellark> thanks.
[15:46] <Laney> Wellark: ok, hopefully soon, finishing up another fix atm
[15:47] <charles> dednick, Saviq, let's discuss it here so thostr_ can be kept in the loop
[15:47] <charles> dednick, do you want that change in this MP? it's trivial to make
[15:48] <dednick> charles: yes please. i can just update my branch quickly as well
[15:48] <charles> dednick, doing it now then
[15:49] <thostr_> na, don't keep me in this time... the match is about to start ;)
[15:49] <dednick> Saviq: how do i update the pot file?
[15:50] <Saviq> dednick, make pot_file
[15:50] <charles> lol
[15:50] <charles> thostr_, oh? I thought the world cup ended a couple of days ago ;)
[15:51] <thostr_> charles: that was only for US
[15:51] <thostr_> for germany I think it'll end today
[15:51] <ogra_> nah
[15:51] <ogra_> dont be so pessimistic ;)
[15:52] <charles> thatsthejoke.jpg
[15:52]  * thostr_ off for the match now...
[15:53]  * ogra_ too
[16:00] <charles> dednick, Saviq, pushed
[16:02] <Saviq> charles, thanks
[16:29] <faizanakram99> hi all
[16:30] <faizanakram99> anyone porting ubuntu touch for samsung galaxy s advance i9070
[16:50] <Tassadar> whoa, looks like the problems with sound on hammerhead were fixed, by the switch to pulseadio I assume
[16:52] <Tassadar> now it just won't turn off the screen for suspend :x
[16:53] <Tassadar> which is kinda weird, because the suspend happens according to dmesg Oo
[16:56] <dednick> Saviq: updated https://code.launchpad.net/~nick-dedekind/unity8/transfer-menu/+merge/224673
[16:57] <dednick> Saviq: oh hang on. havent done inline
[16:57] <Laney> Wellark: elopio: don't think I'll get to the reviews today, sorry - will do first thing monday
[16:57] <Laney> then we can do a landing monday morning if it's okay if you want
[17:01] <elopio> Laney: that's fine, don't worry.
[17:13] <peryt> z
[17:42] <rsalveti> nik90_: pon
[17:42] <rsalveti> pong
[17:55] <nik90_> rsalveti: hey do you have someone in your team working on unlocking the screen  when an alarm is triggered?
[17:58] <rsalveti> nik90_: well, we can't automatically unlock the screen as that would have security implications
[17:58] <rsalveti> all we can do is turning on the display so the user can see the alarm notification
[17:58] <nik90_> rsalveti: yeah but something similar to when receiving a call would be nice
[17:58] <rsalveti> with dismiss and accept
[17:59] <rsalveti> nik90_: right, that will happen, charles should probably be implementing that soon
[17:59] <rsalveti> basically the indicator now needs to hold a suspend blocker when an alarm is triggered
[17:59] <rsalveti> and also make sure the display is turned on so the user can see the alarm
[18:00] <nik90_> rsalveti: ah ok. I wasn't sure who was on it. I can coordinate with charles since I now know he is the one working on it
[18:02] <rsalveti> nik90_: sure :-)
[18:08] <ybon> wow, MMS in the new image? Thanks guys! :)
[18:09] <ybon> (and girls hopefully :) )
[18:11] <ybon> And aGPS working, that's a crazy good news
[18:11]  * ybon sends ♥ to the core team
[18:24] <mhall119> popey: is MMS actually working now?
[18:24] <mhall119> I tried to send and recieve an image from my wife and neither went through
[18:25] <mhall119> not sure if that's because of Ubuntu, or because of my pre-paid AT&T plan
[18:26] <mhall119> supposedly my plan allows it
[18:34] <popey> mhall119: not tried
[18:34] <popey> mhall119: i can't attach pictures to tweets, goes back to blank twitter window
[18:37] <nik90_> ybon: wait aGPS works?
[18:38]  * ybon just sent a MMS
[18:38] <ybon> but let me check it has arrived :p
[18:38] <ybon> nik90_: humm, let me check again
[18:39] <ybon> oh, in chat list page, the summary of my last message is null when this last message is a MMS, it seems
[18:43] <ybon> nik90_: humm, I was connected to the wifi, so my position was certainly coming from that :s
[18:43]  * ybon sends more ♥ to the team to make the aGPS land :)
[18:46] <nik90_> ybon: you raised my hope :P !
[18:47] <ybon> nik90_: mine too ;)
[18:47] <nik90_> :)
[18:50] <sergiusens> mhall119: sending, no; there's a udm bug and people have been distracting mandel with doc writing ;-)
[18:51] <sergiusens> mhall119: you should recv, and if it doesn't work, just send a bug my way (ubuntu-bug nuntium) and attached the nuntium upstart log and if you can .local/share/nuntium/store
[18:58] <ybon> SCANDAL, Ubuntu Touch does not prevent a Nexus 4 to broke when falling on the ground!
[18:59] <ybon> (My darling just let her phone fall :/ )
[18:59] <genii> Well, it can't do everything.
[18:59] <genii> ybon: I've now broke 4 screens on my N4. I don't think I'm going to replace it this time.
[19:00] <ybon> genii: it seems that touch is not active anymore on the bottom of the screen
[19:00] <ybon> only the back is physically broken by the way
[19:01] <genii> ybon: The digitizer and the screen are all one fused-together unit, so if the touch digitizer is kaput, the screen also has to be replaced
[19:02] <genii> ( here it used to be $180, down to $140 now, Canadian $)
[19:02] <ybon> ok
[19:02] <ybon> the price of the phone in second hands market
[19:04] <genii> ybon: Here? Between $225 to $275
[19:04] <genii> Or if you mean the broken one to sell for parts now, you might get $50
[19:05] <ybon> here it's €150 in good state
[19:05] <ybon> oh, good idea, I may find a broken one that has the touch and screen ok
[19:06] <ybon> €130 (but 8Gb) http://www.leboncoin.fr/telephonie/679866291.htm?ca=12_s
[20:28] <krabador> i really want to ask if some of the ubuntu touch porting on the wiki are really active
[20:40] <diclophis> heya all
[20:40] <diclophis> I have successfully gotten utopic-preinstalled-touch-armhf.tar.gz  booted onto a sony xperia z1
[20:41] <diclophis> however... nothing graphical is loading, nor does a text mode output appear on the device sreen
[20:41] <diclophis> however `adb shell` works perfectly fine!
[20:41] <diclophis> so, this i think is a pretty big win... I have some questions on where some things are though
[20:41] <diclophis> for instance, I don't have a /lib/modules directoy ...
[20:43] <diclophis> I should maybe preface this with, my build is a bit frankenstienian
[20:43] <diclophis> I am using the boot.img that resulted from the ubuntu/touch/port document, but then I am using a kernel build from the sony official OSS download
[20:44] <diclophis> so, from the ubuntu touch CM build output I have a wlan.ko file, and I adb-pushed it to the devices... and got this when I tried to modprobe it
[20:44] <diclophis> https://gist.github.com/diclophis/fa04ccdec40d346b9f7e
[20:45] <diclophis> i figure the screen and all is not working because the kernel module is not present
[20:47] <diclophis> this gist outlines how I was able to glue together the builds to make it boot: https://gist.github.com/diclophis/cc8775c7617b060ef8e3


[07:39] <Unit193> Storms! :D
[07:39] <Unit193> Yey!
[07:39] <Unit193> Booo.
[21:38] <Unit193> paultag: Actually, can you poke me before you sponsor?  I should bump the version before you sign+upload.
[22:52] <Unit193> Anyone going to OLF?  Anyone giving a talk? :D


[02:12] <bigbash> exit
[03:38] <lostson> enter
[03:40] <Buglouse> play
[03:52] <lostson> stop
[03:53] <Buglouse> s/stop/read
[03:54] <lostson> how i missed my dual screen setup and so glad to have it back
[03:59] <Buglouse> 1024 EEE ASUS (with cracks) 1015PEM. don't miss my 1440x1280 at all, just become better at screen management (using half a screen btw) :) :)
[03:59] <lostson> heh
[04:14] <lostson> little bit of thunder and lightning tonight
[04:18] <Buglouse> hehe, in #vim ?
[04:19] <lostson> no
[04:19] <Buglouse> T-storm on the way, watching light while reading channels [Smashing Pumpkins]. # VIM :)
[04:21] <lostson> already hit here looks like its over
[04:28] <lostson> raining pretty good though
[15:11] <Buglouse> Think im otta here, #WiLUG
[19:23]  * Cheesehead has returned from vacation
[19:23] <Cheesehead> Now to do a lot of laundry
[23:37] <Cheesehead> The 17 August meeting announcement: http://loco.ubuntu.com/meetings/ubuntu-us-wisconsin/172/detail/
[23:39] <Cheesehead> Wiki page updated for 17 Aug meeting: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WisconsinTeam


[03:32] <designbybeck__> Wacom Tablets aren't supported in Kubuntu 18.04!?!?!?
 @designbybeck__, Works for me straight up!
 @cyrano, I get that occasionally too.  Sometimes after installing a deb also.
[03:53] <designbybeck__> IrcsomeBot: but with an interface to change settings?
[03:53] <designbybeck__> It is set to screen and I want it to relevant
[07:20] <lordievader> Good morning
[12:00] <BluesKaj> Hey folks
[12:28] <_13LACK_> BluesKaj Hi! \o
[12:29] <BluesKaj> hey _13LACK_
[20:07] <coderphive> I thought the super key worked out of the box for 18.04
[20:08] <coderphive> Seems like you can only set it to a key combination
 Hi!
 I have a problem with the wifi connection. after connecting to the wifi network a window appears asking me the password of the wifi indefinitely. I can only disconnect myself and after some time reconnect and surf until it is not heard again. I don't know how to do. help me thanks
[22:03] <valorie> hmmm
[22:04] <valorie> there used to be a bug where you had to edit the connection to
[22:04] <valorie> sec
[22:05] <valorie> allow "All users can connect to this network"
[22:05] <valorie> it's been fixed, but if you are on an older system you might have to check or select that
[22:05] <valorie> @Andrea ^^^
 I have just allow "all user .."