[00:00] <webchat54> I'm grateful for the community. This is part of the reason I ditched Windows.
[00:57] <roberte> hi all
[00:57] <matsaman> hi
[01:05] <ash_worksi> hi
[02:59] <seninha> do ubuntu still has the minimal installation media (mini.iso) for 20.04?
[03:00] <kb79> Hi, I am on Kubuntu 20.04 with encrypted LVM. The system cannot boot - instead, I get messages like 'Volume group "vgkubuntu" not found'. I am not prompted for my luks password, and I am dropped to initramfs shell
[03:00] <kb79> I can chroot into the system from a USB boot, but I don't know how to fix the bootloader
[03:01] <kb79> I tried update-grub && update-initramfs -c -k all, but that doesn't help
[03:02] <kb79> seninha, looks like the answer is yes. There is a link here: https://askubuntu.com/questions/1233746/download-ubuntu-minimal-iso-20-04lts
[03:04] <seninha> kb79: nice, thanks.
[03:04] <kb79> no problem, seninha
[03:12] <lord_daemon> I have two lists, I want as a result the names that were in both, regardless of being in uppercase or lowercase
[03:18] <rabbitnightmare> hello I am trying to install Ubuntu and for some reason it doesn't see my nvme drive
[03:19] <rabbitnightmare> lsblk doesn't even show it
[03:19] <rabbitnightmare> arch sees it
[03:19] <rabbitnightmare> even if I format it using cfdisk and format everything to ext4 etc it will not show up at all on Ubuntu
[03:20] <rabbitnightmare> please help :(
[03:20] <rabbitnightmare> I am trying to switch to 22.04
[03:21] <rabbitnightmare> I can't do an in place upgrade over the previous LTS
[03:21] <rabbitnightmare> "an in place upgrade is impossible, you will need to do a clean installation to use 22.04"
[03:21] <rabbitnightmare> earlier versions of Ubuntu see the nvme drive
[03:22] <rabbitnightmare> maybe it didn't work in 21.10 but I assumed that it would be fixed by the latest LTS release
[03:22] <rabbitnightmare> please help
[03:23] <rabbitnightmare> why did you break Ubuntu???
[03:23] <Crucifyy> what version are you on currently
[03:24] <rabbitnightmare> USB 22.04
[03:24] <rabbitnightmare> live image
[03:24] <rabbitnightmare> uname -a states 5.15
[03:25] <Crucifyy> i didnt have any issues with it seeing my NvME drives.
[03:25] <Crucifyy> but i upgraded from 20.04
[03:25] <rabbitnightmare> 20.04 is the version installed
[03:25] <rabbitnightmare> for some reason the upgrade stated it couldnt be updated
[03:25] <rabbitnightmare> when I did a dist upgrade
[03:25] <Crucifyy> what command did you use
[03:25] <rabbitnightmare> sudo apt dist upgrade
[03:26] <Crucifyy> sudo do-release-upgrade -d is what you need
[03:26] <rabbitnightmare> I used to upgrade every 6 months but lately I just stay lts
[03:26] <rabbitnightmare> yes I did that one and thats the one that told me I needed to do a clean install
[03:27] <rabbitnightmare> "an in place upgrade is impossible, please do a clean installation"
[03:28] <Crucifyy> hmmmph, don't think ill be of help any further than that. Sorry.. Hopefully one of the resident ubuntu gods chime in for ya soon
[03:28] <rabbitnightmare> thanks for trying
[03:28] <Crucifyy> hope it gets worked out!
[03:28] <rabbitnightmare> I mean 20.04 didnt stop working
[03:28] <rabbitnightmare> its a dell laptop that came with Ubuntu
[03:28] <rabbitnightmare> thats whats kind of funny about this
[03:28] <Crucifyy> yea thats just weird that 20.04 saw the drive just fine and 22 doesnt
[03:29] <rabbitnightmare> I wonder if its a bug
[03:29] <rabbitnightmare> I will wait for 22.04.1
[03:30] <Crucifyy> i know there are quite a few thus far
[03:30] <Crucifyy> although ive been pretty lucky
[03:30] <rabbitnightmare> good enough reason to wait
[03:30] <rabbitnightmare> it was wierd, I tried to reinstall 20.04 and that worked fine
[03:31] <rabbitnightmare> then doing the upgrade commands etc tell me it cant be upgraded
[03:31] <rabbitnightmare> I wonder if they didn't put the drivers in, like someone forgot
[03:32] <rabbitnightmare> its set to ahci
[03:32] <rabbitnightmare> arch sees the drive
[03:32] <rabbitnightmare> formats it etc
[03:32] <rabbitnightmare> 99% of my apps are snaps, so I just use Ubuntu, and pacman is horrible
[03:33] <Crucifyy> the snaps are all i am having issues with
[03:33] <Crucifyy> a few of mine are having horrendous launch times
[03:33] <Bashing-om> rabbitnightmare: A thought - what shows for "Prompt=" --- ' less /etc/update-manager/release-upgrades '.
[03:33] <rabbitnightmare> might be worth it for us to just stick to 20.04.whatever
[03:33] <rabbitnightmare> idk yet I am still on the live iso
[03:34] <rabbitnightmare> its amazing how much you just get used to things being super stable and just working then BAM issue
[03:34] <rabbitnightmare> lolz
[03:34] <rabbitnightmare> I just want to know why the 22.04 iso wont show my nvme drive
[03:35] <rabbitnightmare> like at all
[03:35] <rabbitnightmare> fdisk -l nor lsblk shows it at all
[03:35] <Bashing-om> rabbitnightmare: ack - what is needed there to go from 20,04 (LTS) to 22.04 (LTS) is "Prompt=lts".
[03:35] <rabbitnightmare> Bashing-om at this point I will stick to 20.04
[03:36] <rabbitnightmare> let yall work out the kinks
[03:36] <rabbitnightmare> strange
[03:36] <Bashing-om> rabbitnightmare: But that has nothing to do with the nvme drive :(
[03:36] <rabbitnightmare> I have never had Ubuntu not show a drive
[03:36] <rabbitnightmare> ever
[03:38] <xmetal> well if 20.04 works then go back to that for now maybe? ... "use what works"
[03:38] <rabbitnightmare> lsblk NAME   MAJ:MIN RM  SIZE RO TYPE MOUNTPOINT loop0    7:0    0  1.8G  1 loop /rofssdb      8:16   1 14.5G  0 disk ├─sdb1   8:17   1  1.9G  0 part├─sdb2   8:18   1  3.5M  0 part└─sdb3   8:19   1 12.6G  0 part /var/log
[03:38] <rabbitnightmare> its not showing up at all lol
[03:39] <rabbitnightmare> I feel that I may not be the only one after some googling, others are having this issue
[03:41] <xmetal> i am troubleshooting an issue with 22.04 (I admit not stock ubuntu) where grub/os-prober doesn't "complete" the initrd line for my arch install (causing a kernel panic when i try to boot that distro)
[03:42] <rabbitnightmare> oh boy it seems it may not be worth my time to mess with 22.04 until they figure it out
[03:42] <rabbitnightmare> not trolling, just an observation
[03:43] <rabbitnightmare> anyhow I am going to bed
[03:43] <rabbitnightmare> take care
[03:59] <rabbitnightmare> ok update, upon rebooting the live image sees the nvme drive, its the installer
[03:59] <rabbitnightmare> launching the installer unloads the drive somehow
[04:00] <rabbitnightmare> figured yall would want to know
[05:22] <sams> how do i get wine systray into the desktop systray?
[05:24] <lotuspsychje> sams: whats your endgoal exactly?
[05:27] <sams> i have a small wine sytray window that i want apps running in wine to show in dDE sytray?
[05:28] <lotuspsychje> can you make a screenshot plz sa
[05:28] <lotuspsychje> sams: ^
[05:31] <sams> sec, only just started using linux again a week+ ago having trouble taking screenshot and editing it
[05:36] <sams> https://imgur.com/wzr4R9r
[05:36] <sams> if i minimise the app it goes in there.
[05:38] <sams> And that Wine System Window floats
[05:38] <lotuspsychje> thats a bit small screenshot sams we cant see your ubuntu release nor DE you are using
[06:14] <ravanan> How do I manually get a directory listing of an APT repo through a browser? I want to examine the contents of "https://brave-browser-apt-release.s3.brave.com/ stable main" but a simple GET request to "/stable", "/stable/main", "/stable/main/Release" doesn't seem to suffice. I'm getting an XML error response "NoSuchKey"
[06:43] <alkisg> ravanan: https://brave-browser-apt-release.s3.brave.com/dists/stable/main/binary-amd64/Packages
[06:44] <alkisg> If the repository web server doesn't allow directory listing, you need to add the full path for the files that apt would ask, one by one; contents, packages etc; and then manually process them
[06:48] <ravanan> Thanks alkisg
[07:14] <ga_sk8er> i just upgraded from  18  to  20  & cant get programs to  show on my desktop
[07:17] <ga_sk8er> i tried the copy & paste thing to  the desktop  folder but i get nothing. if i  right click  & choose "copy" the desktop  screen  doesnt give an  option for "paste"
[07:38] <ga_sk8er> Stettler85
[10:53] <qqz> I have deleted an old package and now I want to upload a newer version.
[10:54] <qqz> The newer version bundsteg-1.2-3 has the same .src.tar.gz as bundsteg-1.2-2
[10:54] <qqz> Ubuntu does not allow me to re-upload the deleted file:
[10:54] <qqz> https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/UploadErrors
[10:55] <qqz> "Launchpad never permits reusing version numbers in the same archive, even if they have been deleted."
[10:55] <qqz> This is a bug
[10:59] <qqz> how can I file a bug for Launchpad?
[11:08] <tomreyn> qqz: /join #launchpad and see its /topic
[11:30] <towser> can you safely install ubuntu alongside windows 11. without upsetting windows? (windows is already installed)
[11:31] <descent1> yes
[11:32] <towser> what is the best flavour of ubuntu I have mint, normal, cinnamon or kubuntu on isos
[11:33] <descent1> i like regular old ubuntu version. basically its gnome
[11:34] <towser> yes you got gnome and kde as the top desktop environments I've used
[11:39] <tomreyn> !flavors
[11:58] <WeeBey> So, I'm reading a thread mentioning that the window sizing behaviour of gnome in 22.04 changed quite a bit. ANd this may be causing quite a few weird issues and behaviours that I'm seeing with window sizing.
[12:00] <tomreyn> sorry to hear this. do you have an ubuntu support question, though?
[12:01] <WeeBey> tomreyn, I was troubleshooting here with some assistance yesterday evening. It's a follow up from that, but I apologize for lack of context.
[12:02] <tomreyn> oh, i didn't realize that WeeBey
[12:02] <WeeBey> If you have 22.04, perhaps you could verify if when you click "properties" in nautilus (File) for different files of different filename length, does your properties window change to awkward wide rectangles?
[12:03] <tomreyn> i have it in a VM, if that helps
[12:04] <tomreyn> actually no, i no longer do, the disk ran full and i need to fix that first
[12:04] <ravage> and it would be helpful if you can make it reproduceable with 2 filenames for example
[12:04] <WeeBey> :-)
[12:05] <WeeBey> I'm testing with multiple files. It seems that it only makes a weird wide rectangle when using PDF files. It may be the preview image generated.
[12:05] <ravage> my longest filenames are the ubuntu isos. they work just fine
[12:05] <transhumanist> I don't have many complaints about Ubuntu, but I have one complaint, nautilus seems to be broken when copying files across users, how about 2 features 1) a dialog box should appear when there is permissions issues involved that prompts for username and password 2) some sort of progress bar
[12:06] <WeeBey> Hm. JPGs show normally. It's not that I use the "properties" window that much, but I am having odd issues throughout with the file manager and windowing sizes. So I was seeing it as a symptom.
[12:06] <WeeBey> transhumanist, the progress wheel at the top doesn't work?
[12:07] <ravage> there is even a bar when you click the wheel :)
[12:07] <WeeBey> :D
[12:09] <WeeBey> I used dconf-editor to enable session saving and that seemed to help. Before the "save file" dialogue was full screen every time. And I could only change it with Super + 2 finger click and drag.
[12:09] <WeeBey> But it would revert back.
[12:09] <ravage> and for the permissions part. maybe thats a point for the launchpad wishlist.
[12:11] <ravage> WeeBey, maybe it helps if you install a fresh version in a VM and try to reproduce it from there
[12:11] <WeeBey> ravage, Yeah. I could give that a try. I did, indeed, upgrade.
[12:12] <WeeBey> But I have so many VMs now, that.. ugh. I had 5 VMs in VirtualBox and a course made me buy Workstation last week so I can load their 150gb of VMs.
[12:12] <ravage> you could also create a new user and see if it happens there too
[12:12] <WeeBey> :D
[12:13] <towser> if you install ubuntu alongside windows can you easily remove ubuntu again if you change your mind later on?
[12:13] <ravage> yes
[12:13] <ravage> well. you would have to define "easy"
[12:13] <ravage> there is no uninstaller
[12:14] <ravage> looks like there is :D https://help.ubuntu.com/community/OS-Uninstaller
[12:15] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[12:15] <gry> hi
[12:17] <transhumanist> WeeBey: when copying across users it just  generates an error
[12:17] <transhumanist> as for the spin wheel, I never noticed it
[12:17] <transhumanist> will have to look to see if I see one when copying within a user
[12:17] <gry> towser you need to install windows first, ubuntu second
[12:18] <gry> towser otherwise the boot may be messed up
[12:18] <ravage> it works ok with UEFI
[12:19] <towser> yes windows is installed first, then ubunut it's just if I want to remove ubuntu after that it might mess up
[12:19] <WeeBey> I got my new laptop and installed Ubuntu before even booting windows. big mistake! I should have at least upgraded the bios first.
[12:20] <ravage> you can usually upgrade the bios from som live ISO. but there are some bad laptops that require a windows tool
[12:21] <respawn> if it is uefi bios laptop you need usb drive formated to fat 32 and bios file and you can do it from uefi bios
[12:25] <transhumanist> towser you may find that windows boot option doesn't appear when that happens I recommend using boot-repair  https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Boot-Repair
[12:28] <transhumanist> anyone aware of compete directions for compiling your own custom kernel? I found only directions that were quite lacking, missing things like signing and stuff like that when using TPMv2 and all that kind of crap
[12:29] <oerheks> tmp2 ? interesting..
[12:33] <tomreyn> WeeBey: journalctl -b | grep DMI:    tells you what your alptop model and bios version are
[12:50] <WeeBey> tomreyn, thanks. Yes, I'm a version behind. It woul be great if i could suspend this laptop.
[12:55] <tomreyn> WeeBey: see whether there's a "changelog" on the manufacturer website, and instrcutions on how to upgrade. "optimized (system) performance" could be a hint that bad acpi tables were fixed.
[12:57] <WeeBey> I'll look for the change log. It's hard to find. This is a Razer so I need windows to update the bios. I have searched and searched and cannot find another way.
[13:45] <lotuspsychje> !biosupdate | WeeBey
[14:14] <lousiF> Jellyfish ftw
[14:14] <lousiF> ~$ uname -a
[14:14] <lousiF> Linux kerbuntu 5.15.0-28-generic #29-Ubuntu SMP Wed Apr 27 12:58:00 UTC 2022 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
[14:17] <lousiF> only issue I've had so far is the FF snap. Uninstalled it, then just got the source tar.gz from mozilla
[14:20] <oerheks> systemsettings > applications > firefox gives snap permissions
[14:22] <isene> I run courier-imap with mail stored in ~/Maildir. I would like to move my maildir to the hidden location ~/.Maildir. What do I need to do to achieve this?
[14:23] <lousiF> I have FF Dev Edition on here too, was unaffected. Same method, source *.tar.gz
[14:23] <lousiF> Self updates
[14:23] <BluesKaj> the FF snap version had problems with some stream sites so i swotched to the mozilla deb version
[14:24] <BluesKaj> *switched
[14:24] <isene> lousiF:Ypu could also do this; https://fostips.com/ubuntu-21-10-two-firefox-remove-snap/
[14:25] <lousiF> I'm on 22.04
[14:28] <joris> I just upgraded to jammy and have problems with one package that is kept back. libsnmp40:i386 any idea how to fix it? sudo apt install -f does not fix it
[14:28] <isene> lousiF: I know. So am I. The article covers that as well.
[14:28] <BluesKaj> I just added this ppa to the /etc/apt/sources.list.d, deb https://ppa.launchpadcontent.net/mozillateam/ppa/ubuntu/ jammy main
[14:29] <lotuspsychje> joris: can you pastebin the whole apt logs you get?
[14:29] <joris> yeah I can
[14:30] <lousiF> I just got the regular release source tar.gz from mozilla, it self updates like my developer edition always has
[14:31]  * ogra notes that the PPA will likely just stop being updated eventually ...
[14:31] <BluesKaj> yeah, I'm aware of that
[14:34] <ogra> in that light using the tarball is realyl the only sane option if you have actual blocking issues with the snap (though please file them so they can get fixed)
[14:36] <joris> lotuspsychje, https://www.toptal.com/developers/hastebin/ojuheziyug.apache
[14:37] <lousiF> I have Waterfox too, it updates the same way. Help -> About
[14:40] <lousiF> about:about
[14:40] <lousiF> hehe
[14:45] <freakyy85> lousiF wahts waterfox? oO
[14:45] <lousiF> freakyy85, https://www.waterfox.net/
[14:46] <Maik> lousiF: something that's offtopic here
[14:46] <lousiF> Maik, gotcha
[14:47] <Maik> :)
[14:47] <lousiF> everything is offtopic somewhere
[14:47] <Maik> lousiF: please keep thing Ubuntu support related
[14:47] <Maik> things/things
[14:48] <lousiF> :cool_emoji:
[14:53] <lotuspsychje> joris: sudo apt autoremove
[14:53] <lotuspsychje> joris: then sudo apt update && sudo apt full-upgrade
[14:55] <oerheks> !info gnome-mpv
[14:56] <lotuspsychje> !info libsnmp40
[15:00] <joris> thanks lotuspsychje but that does not fix it
[15:00] <lotuspsychje> joris: what does apt spit out now?
[15:01] <joris> The following packages have been kept back:
[15:01] <joris>   libsnmp40:i386
[15:01] <joris> same message as befor
[15:02] <tomreyn> joris: what does this print?   apt list --installed | grep ',local\]$' | nc termbin.com 9999
[15:03] <joris> https://termbin.com/r0nk
[15:04] <tomreyn> joris: those are packages / package versions which are not available from any of the apt repositories you currently have configured.
[15:04] <joris> tomreyn, ah ok
[15:04] <tomreyn> meaning they have no upgrade path, may introduce incompatibiliteis and unresolveable dependencies
[15:04] <tomreyn> no upgrade path means also no security updates
[15:05] <tomreyn> try to replace them by packages / versions which are available from official apt sources
[15:05] <joris> hmmm ok weird that thunderbird is in that
[15:06] <tomreyn> the package version there suggests it was built for ubuntu 21.10
[15:07] <joris> hmmm so it didn't get updated when I upgraded to 22.04
[15:07] <joris> that's weird isn't it
[15:09] <lucas-arg> any one had issues while up grade from 20.04 to 22.04 ? I mean not clean install...
[15:09] <lucas-arg> like real upgrade
[15:09] <lucas-arg> from terminal or GUI
[15:09] <lucas-arg> with ubuntu I cant never do so
[15:09] <lotuspsychje> whats the issue you have lucas-arg
[15:10] <jhutchins> lucas-arg: Have you read the errata?
[15:10] <lucas-arg> after upgrade system was useless... had to reinstall all form zero
[15:10] <lucas-arg> clean install
[15:11] <jhutchins> lucas-arg: Let's put it this way: Lots of people have NOT had issues.
[15:11] <lucas-arg> it broke...
[15:11] <lotuspsychje> lucas-arg: in some cases early upgrades can be tricky, also depending what you choose at upgrade stage
[15:11] <lotuspsychje> !ltsupgrade | lucas-arg
[15:12] <joris> tomreyn, I started with removing wine-stable and that seems to have fixed it...
[15:12] <lotuspsychje> !yay | joris
[15:13] <joris> yeah that's cool, now I just wonder if I have a problem with thunderbird. I use it a lot, so I don't want to run into trouble
[15:14] <cengiz_io> Hello. I'm running jammy on an old macbook pro (11,2) which has Crystal Lake chipset. Whenever I connect an HDMI display and switch to HDMI as default sound device, I can't get any sound on HDMI and Chrome video playback stops until I unplug.
[15:14] <cengiz_io> Does this ring any bells to anyone?
[15:14] <tomreyn> !info thunderbird jammy
[15:14] <joris> hmmm thunderbird -v
[15:14] <joris>  Thunderbird 91.8.1
[15:14] <lucas-arg> lotuspsychje, thanks... next time ill wait a litle then... i did sudo apt update && sudo apt dist-upgrade -y && sudo do-release-upgrade -d
[15:15] <tomreyn> joris: you could downgrade to the version in jammy
[15:15] <lotuspsychje> cengiz_io: you could check if your graphics driver is loaded correctly; sudo lshw -C video
[15:15] <tomreyn> apt policy thunderbird   will list it
[15:16] <lotuspsychje> lucas-arg: would be interesting to know at wich stage your upgrade broke, did you notice anything special?
[15:17] <lucas-arg> lotuspsychje, mmm not really... i was on gnome probably would have been better for instance if i did the upgrade offline like fedora does...
[15:18] <lucas-arg> i dont now if when you upgrade packages are downloaded first and then aplayed
[15:18] <lotuspsychje> lucas-arg: another advice we can give is, before upgrading is making !backup and read the !jammy releasenotes to see the current bugs
[15:18] <lousiF> rygel and mx-extract are using the most RAM now
[15:18] <lucas-arg> I have a separate /home disk... so i really dont mind if system crash... i just reinstall / and /boot/efi and im done
[15:18] <cengiz_io> @lotuspsychje hello! it seems so.  https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/78dCm6wB/lshw-C-video.txt
[15:18] <tomreyn> joris: i.e. you could run    sudo apt install thunderbird=1:91.8.0+build2-0ubuntu1 thunderbird-gnome-support=1:91.8.0+build2-0ubuntu1
[15:20] <cengiz_io> lotuspsychje: not sure if should state something else. xserver-xorg-video-intel seems to be installed. (although there's this modesetting driver as well. I'm sorry I'm not good with intel drivers)
[15:21] <lotuspsychje> cengiz_io: seems like your intel driver is there, could you try journalctl -f and plug your hdmi, see what kinf of output you get
[15:21] <joris> tomreyn, ok thanks did that and seems to work!
[15:22] <tomreyn> joris: good, plus you'll get security updates for it now
[15:22] <tomreyn> note there's also a snap
[15:29] <lotuspsychje> !paste | cengiz_io if you like the volunteers to take a look for you
[15:29] <cengiz_io> lotuspsychje: interestingly nothing on journal or dmesg. display is piped thru hdmi, there is an audio device which is marked as "plugged" and selected, but no dice. `speaker-test` also produces no sound. hmm
[15:30] <lotuspsychje> cengiz_io: sudo lshw -C sound
[15:30] <cengiz_io> lotuspsychje: ok will use our paste service next time :)
[15:31] <lotuspsychje> cengiz_io: your previous paste was ok too
[15:31] <cengiz_io> lshw -C sound: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/gXtyxZXP2n/
[15:33] <lotuspsychje> cengiz_io: can we see your full dmesg to plz?
[15:33] <cengiz_io> lotuspsychje: sure. let me anonymize it a little.
[15:40] <cengiz_io> lotuspsychje: I did reboot to get a clean ring buffer log, and you know what, it suddenly started routing sound as well. previous reboots didn't work. I wonder if there's a race condition somewhere. for the record, here's my dmesg with working audio over hdmi https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/5FZNgWKsTr/
[15:42] <cengiz_io> lotuspsychje: and while I was typing you this, it stopped working again. might be a powersaving thing maybe?
[15:42] <lotuspsychje> cengiz_io: reading
[15:44] <cengiz_io> thx
[15:45] <lotuspsychje> cengiz_io: i see some weird things on your facetimehd, could it be that this conflicts with your audio somehow?
[15:46] <cengiz_io> that's possible. it's an oot driver.
[15:46] <cengiz_io> I'll try blaclisting it
[15:46] <lotuspsychje> is that an external device or?
[15:46] <cengiz_io> it's the pcie webcam of macbook pro
[15:49] <lotuspsychje> facetimehd: module verification failed: signature and/or required key missing - tainting kernel
[15:50] <lotuspsychje> not sure yet whats going on cengiz_io the rest of your dmesg looks rather sane to me, besides a few acpi warnings
[15:50] <cengiz_io> those acpi warnings have been there for many many years :)
[15:50] <lotuspsychje> cengiz_io: you have that on local sound vlc, FF, chromium too?
[15:51] <cengiz_io> yep. audio output is completely frozen in all apps.
[15:51] <cengiz_io> seems like a pulseaudio issue. I don't know for sure
[15:51] <lotuspsychje> cengiz_io: whas that an upgrade, or clean install?
[15:51] <cengiz_io> clean
[15:54] <lotuspsychje> cengiz_io: you could also do a test with pavucontrol
[15:54] <i-garrison> cengiz_io: pastebin your 'pa-info' output
[15:55] <cengiz_io> lotuspsychje: pavucontrol test is silent as well
[15:57] <lotuspsychje> cengiz_io: from a wiki; Also, if you are using PulseAudio, sometimes it thinks HDMI is the default sound card; to solve this problem, install pavucontrol and set Analog Stereo as the fallback device.
[15:59] <i-garrison> cengiz_io: how do you test? pavucontrol is a control ui, not a test tool
[15:59] <cengiz_io> I was talking about the gnome audio settings panel actually.
[16:00] <i-garrison> aha
[16:01] <i-garrison> pastebin the info if you do not mind, that usually gives all you need about pulseaudio layer (run it as ordinary user, not root)
[16:08] <lotuspsychje> cengiz_io: macs always have some parts to investigate like this wiki; https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/MacBookPro11,x#Getting_the_integrated_intel_card_to_work_on_11,3
[16:09] <lotuspsychje> not an ubuntu wiki, but still can investigate what lacks
[16:11] <cengiz_io> yeah. arch wiki is very well crafted. I've fixed so much stuff with that page actually.
[16:11] <lotuspsychje> yeah
[16:11] <cengiz_io> let me get this pa-info to pastebin
[16:44] <Usem> #python
[18:31] <en11gma> im testing with ubuntu 22.04 in live only mode (amd64desktop). i have two 4TB 3.5" hard drives i want to test in a raid 0. bios raid or a linux raid. how do i do each one so i can benchmark the results
[18:32] <en11gma> i know how to create a bios raid but after that i do not know how to tell ubuntu to recognize the drive and if i want to keep the bios just in ahci mode i do not know how to tell the ubuntu live to create a raid0 from the two drives once i get to desktop
[18:34] <oerheks> tons of guides for software raid, https://kifarunix.com/setup-software-raid-on-ubuntu-20-04/
[18:34] <oerheks> but i doubt a live environment works, you might need to reboot?
[18:36] <en11gma> oerheks thats what i was wondering about. the live enviroment
[18:36] <jhutchins> en11gma: The overhead of RAID will overcome any performance benefit from having two drives, regardless of the configuration.
[18:37] <en11gma> an ubuntu live (persistent) just destroyed my 8tb raid0
[18:37] <en11gma> it was awesome
[18:38] <en11gma> i have been downloading game in windows 11 from steam, uplay, origin and battlenet. over 1.2TB and had went through each game and set all settings and everything
[18:38] <en11gma> then i plugged in an ubuntu live persistent and it got me. went into bios and it said i had a failed drive in the stripe
[18:39] <en11gma> so now im starting all over from scratch. just wanting to test some speeds. in the end i will probably put 1 4TB in each of my systems
[18:39] <jhutchins> en11gma: You do understand that the whole idea of "persistent" is that it writes transient data to the disks, right?
[18:40] <en11gma> no. the whole idea since even before ubuntu was using persistence was to write data to the usb stick only
[18:40] <en11gma> its not supposed to touch the other drives at all
[18:40] <jhutchins> en11gma: And then there's reality, as you found out.
[18:41] <en11gma> yea. and im so stupid. i always check back and think it has improved only to repeat the same mistake everytime
[18:41] <en11gma> im an idiot
[18:41] <en11gma> i mean it
[18:42] <en11gma> linux (not even ubuntu) just plain old linux does not like raid0 that was created with windows
[18:42] <jhutchins> http://pendrivelinux.com has some good background info and instructions on manually building your own persistent system
[18:42] <en11gma> jhutchins it works better then rufus?
[18:43] <jhutchins> en11gma: It's very common that a raid configured with one system (OS. controller, disks) will not be usable by a different system (even if it's the same hardware.
[18:43] <en11gma> jhutchins i understand that. i just want linux to leave it alone and not touch it when im using a live usb
[18:44] <en11gma> or even live usb with persistence
[18:44] <en11gma> i dont want it to be used i just want it left alone :)
[18:44] <en11gma> right now i want to use it because its all fresh and formatted and nothing on it and i figure i could do some benchmarks or maybe see what is going wrong
[18:46] <en11gma> i think the persistence live probably would have worked better if my main windows boot drive was a single non raid drive and the bios raid0 was non boot drive.
[18:46] <en11gma> my main boot drive was the bios raid0 with windows on it and there was no single drive
[18:47] <en11gma> i think ubuntu/linux looks (osprober) for other os and tries to add entry to grub when it does the update grub command or init command
[18:48] <oerheks> no, osprober is disabled.
[18:49] <en11gma> crap. i cant figure out why it wants to use the physical disk in anyway. with a live usb (persistence) i would think it should leave all other forms of media alone.
[18:49] <en11gma> i love using ubuntu live usb but when it comes to persistence its pretty much a no no.
[18:50] <oerheks> if it said ' a failed drive in the stripe'  then i think it just noticed, not wrote anything at all
[18:51] <en11gma> it said that actually when i booted into the bios
[18:51] <en11gma> i think i took a pic of the actual ubuntu shutdown screen though. not sure i have to check
[18:52] <en11gma> it did happen when i was shutting down after i did a 'sudo apt update && sudo apt upgrade'
[19:18] <ravage> delete some old kernels manually and retry
[19:18] <ravage> wrong channel
[19:19] <oerheks> yeah, in ubuntu your old kernels are removed with the next update run
[19:19] <ravage> nope. not always. but as i said. wrong channel
[19:19] <oerheks> ' not always'  ?
[19:19] <oerheks> normally they would.
[19:37] <ioria> oerheks, if you install a kernel manually (e.g. from mainline), that wont be added to the remove list
[21:04] <ketiv> Hi
[21:04] <arraybolt3> @ketiv Hello!
[21:04] <ketiv> o/
[21:08] <arraybolt3> @ketiv How can we help you this fine day?
[21:09] <ketiv> How about a nice cup of coffee arraybolt3 ?
[21:09] <ketiv> Americano, medium roast please.
[21:10] <arraybolt3> @ketiv LOL I take it you're not here to fix an Ubuntu problem (you're probably a problem-fixer). Sorry, was trying to be proactive in offering help.
[21:10]  * arraybolt3 attempts to teleport coffee and spills it all over keyboard
[21:11] <jhutchins> arraybolt3: Careful there.  If you do that on an A300 you'll short out the engines.
[21:12] <ketiv> That's all right, thanks anyway. That's cool you're welcoming people with attitude to help. Keep doing a good job.
[21:12] <ketiv> arraybolt3: ^^
[21:12] <arraybolt3> @ketiv Thanks!
[21:12] <arraybolt3> @jhutchins Lost 12TB of data with that stunt... /s
[21:16] <ketiv> Anyway because I've being asked already, how are your experiences with new Ubuntu release Guys? I'm on 21.10 Xubuntu, also with KDE and had a PopUp with a question if I woud like to upgrade to new 22.04. I'm kinda happy with present I've got one.
[21:16] <ketiv> arraybolt3: Have you being upgrading to 22.04?
[21:17] <Bashing-om> !21.10 | ketiv
[21:18] <arraybolt3> @ketiv I've been using Lubuntu 22.04 in a VM and on a repurposed Chromebook, and so far I've not hit any serious problems. There's good workarounds for those problems so far. I've not done a lot with the other Ubuntu 22.04 variants (though I'm about to dive into Ubuntu Studio probably in a few days or so here).
[21:19] <Bashing-om> ketiv: 21.10 goes EOL: supported July 2022. Not too soon to start making upgrade plans. :D
[21:19] <arraybolt3> @Bashing-om No kidding. Plus, there's a graphics glitch that messes with some Intel iGPUs in recent 21.10 kernels, and my system got struck the other day. It's not bad, the system is still quite usable, but it's a bit disturbing and annoying.
[21:20] <ketiv> I'm planning to get a new machine next month, I will wait till so thought.
[21:21] <ketiv> I was hit by a car few months ago, had a laptop in a backpack, I'm scared to play with HDD.
[21:22] <arraybolt3> The graphics glitch might not only affect some Intel iGPUs, I just don't know if it affects them all or not. Xeon 3rd or 4th gen seems to be affected (not sure if my system is 3rd or 4th gen)
[21:23] <arraybolt3> @ketiv Oy! Yeah, that's a possible danger. Someone I know dropped a laptop HDD once, and it never did work after that. (Not sure if it worked before or not, but it most certainly didn't work after.) I've dropped an SSD on the floor and it survived unscathed.
[21:24] <ketiv> Are you testing them or you've got just batter fingers arraybolt3 ?
[21:24] <arraybolt3> Butter fingers + fiddly = thump
[21:25] <ketiv> :-)
[21:25] <ketiv> First thing I've done when stand up from the ground was to check the laptop.
[21:26] <ketiv> I was so happy when saw it working and penguin happy running.
[21:27] <arraybolt3> @ketiv Glad you weren't messed up! You might try a "badblocks -n" test on the HDD (from a live environment, of course) to make sure your disk is still in good working order.
[21:29] <ketiv> Nah, I'm backingup everything quite often. I'll get new machine then sell this one as second hand ;-)
[21:30] <arraybolt3> @ketiv 👍
[21:59] <jhutchins> How is 21.10 current if 22.04 is out?
[21:59] <jhutchins> Are they both current?
[22:01] <arraybolt3> @jhutchins I think they're "current" because they're still supported. But 21.10 goes out of support in two or three months, so it's not recommended for new installs (unless you want to have to install again or upgrade really soon)
[22:19] <jhutchins> arraybolt3: Thanks.  BTW: Prepending "@" to a name will prevent it from being highlighted or alerted by most IRC clients.  Just the name, followed by a colon (:) will trigger highlighter/alerts.
[22:20] <arraybolt3> jhutchins: Argh, for Telegram (at least with _lubot) it's needed, and WeeChat seems to work well with @ (though I don't know if Konversation does). I guess I'll just have to adjust depending on whether someone's in Telegram or not...
[22:21] <jhutchins> arraybolt3: I think it's a standard for IRC networks, other media have different conventions.
[22:21] <jhutchins> (The absence is an IRC standard.)
[22:21] <arraybolt3> jhutchins: OK. Good to know.
[22:29] <arraybolt3> jhutchins: Thank you for your help. I just learned that my @ wasn't even doing what I thought it was for Telegram users. I'll switch to always using the : at the end.
[22:35] <Elw3> Why is it that when i run out of memory i dont get the program OOM killed but instead a 100% cpu usage?
[22:36] <arraybolt3> @Elw3 You're running into what's called "thrashing." Linux is designed to keep from having to kill anything at all costs, so it does everything in its power to juggle stuff around to see if the high memory usage will pass.
[22:37] <arraybolt3> @Elw3 The best way to avoid this is to create a swapfile if you don't have one already, or create a bigger one if you have one but it's small.
[22:37] <arraybolt3> Elw3: Pinging.
[22:37] <oerheks> how do you tell you run out of memory??
[22:37] <Elw3> But what i want is the program to get killed. How do i set that?
[22:38] <oerheks> pkill <something>
[22:38] <arraybolt3> Elw3: Does your keyboard happen to have a Print Screen button? If so, you can configure a keyboard shortcut that should do the trick.
[22:38] <arraybolt3> oerheks: When a system thrashes, it might not be possible to even get to a terminal. The keyboard shortcut I'm talking about (Magic SysRq) should get through no matter what, since it goes straight to the kernel.
[22:39] <Elw3> By itself oerheks, i cant really type if the entire cpu is used for a kernel process.
[22:39] <tomreyn> actually not having swap should result in the oom killer killing *some* process(es). not neccessarily the ones you're hoping for.
[22:39] <Elw3> Thats what i thought tomreyn, but its not the case. Is this an ubuntu thing or have i misconfigured something?
[22:40] <tomreyn> it can depend on what the actual memory situation is, i guess
[22:40] <arraybolt3> tomreyn: True. But not having swap might not do the trick if a process *just* maxes out memory so that the kernel can stay alive by juggling but never gets free. (Firefox on low memory systems is particularly good at doing this...)
[22:40] <tomreyn> and how you have configured the kernel to handle the situation
[22:41] <Elw3> How do i turn these shortcuts on arraybolt3 ? i recon they are turned off by default.
[22:41] <tomreyn> arraybolt3: i agree on that.
[22:41] <arraybolt3> Elw3: To enable Magic SysRq so that you can call the OOM killer at will, open a terminal "Ctrl+Alt+T", and type the following command:
[22:41] <arraybolt3> sudo su -
[22:41] <arraybolt3> Enter your password, then press Enter.
[22:42] <arraybolt3> Next, type "echo 64 > /proc/sys/kernel/sysrq".
[22:42] <arraybolt3> That should enable just the feature you need without opening up all the scary parts of Magic SysRq.
[22:42] <tomreyn> note this should only be done on asingle user system that is under your exclusive physical control
[22:42] <Battaglin> https://i.imgur.com/pa4sqkJ.png  can anyone point me in the right direction as to expand root partition here... using lvm ? Thank you
[22:43] <arraybolt3> Elw3: Once you've done that, you can exit the terminal (type "exit" twice).
[22:43] <Battaglin> I've added 20GB more
[22:43] <Elw3> Mkey, so what combo is "kill the memomy taking process"? And if i have a custom keyboard layout, which key applies?
[22:44] <arraybolt3> Elw3: The next time you run out of memory, press and hold "Alt". Hit the "Print Screen" key (don't hold it), and then press "f".
[22:44] <arraybolt3> Elw3: Not sure how to handle a custom keyboard layout - I **think** this should work despite the custom keyboard, but I'm not totally sure, others may know.
[22:44] <tomreyn> Battaglin: so 38.3G is the new size after resizing the LV?
[22:44] <oerheks> Battaglin, fdisk -l  would show sectors, if they match and/or show free blocks
[22:45] <Battaglin> tomreyn: the 38.3 is the one I want to expand
[22:45] <oerheks> oh, lvm
[22:45] <tomreyn> Battaglin: oh you added 20 G to the (virtual) disk
[22:45] <Battaglin> I've tried various things lvextend etc. but havent succeed correctly yet
[22:46] <Battaglin> yeah.. I have backup
[22:46] <tomreyn> you'll need to redo the partition table then
[22:46] <Elw3> SHould this work already?
[22:46] <tomreyn> thenresize the sda5 PV
[22:46] <Elw3> Doesnt do anything right now.
[22:46] <tomreyn> then resize the vg/root LV
[22:46] <tomreyn> then resize the filesystem on it
[22:47] <Battaglin> tomreyn: you have any reference as to how ?
[22:47] <arraybolt3> Elw3: Dunno. You can try maxing out your memory and then do it - the key is supposed to kill a memory hog process, but not panic if nothing can be killed.
[22:47] <Battaglin> thnx
[22:48] <Battaglin> damn Im just a noob to linux file stuff.. still
[22:49] <tomreyn> Battaglin: not really. but you can certainly find documentation and how-to's on each of these steps online.
[22:50] <tomreyn> Battaglin: since this is a somewhat common use case you could also try looking for a solution that is specific to your virtualization software
[22:50] <Elw3> Hah!!! Instead gimp this killed a chromium tab
[22:50] <Battaglin> tomreyn: ugh :D its hyper-v _D
[22:50] <Battaglin> tomreyn: thnx tho
[22:51] <Elw3> Yes i think that will do for now, thanks arraybolt3
[22:51] <arraybolt3> Elw3: Glad to be of service!
[22:51] <arraybolt3> Elw3: And sorry you lost a Chromium tab...
[22:51] <Elw3> *shrug*
[22:52] <tomreyn> Battaglin: https://askubuntu.com/questions/646183/expanding-disk-inside-hyper-v-using-lvm
[22:53] <Elw3> Years ago it used to kill instead to juggle, that i know for sure. Ultimately i wand do get that setting back. Juggling is pretty useless without having a swap.
[22:53] <Elw3> Ah btw: Custom keyboards are ignored so i have to press E instead of F.
[22:54] <tomreyn> Battaglin: you *are* using LVM, in case this question should come up.
[22:55] <arraybolt3> Elw3: Good to know! Thank you!
[22:56] <Battaglin> tomreyn: looking at that now in fact thnx
[22:59] <arraybolt3> Elw3: Oh, by the way, when you reboot, this feature will probably stop working and you'll have to do the "sudo su -" followed by "echo 64 > /proc/sys/kernel/sysrq" again.
[22:59] <Elw3> of to rc local it goes
[23:01] <Elw3> But for the sake of learning: How would i set this permanently without this tinkersolution?
[23:02] <arraybolt3> Elw3: The best way I know is to make a shell script, slap it in /usr/local/bin, then make a custom systemd OneShot unit to execute the script on startup. There may be a more elegant solution, but that's what I do for my "autostart but needs to run as root" stuff.
[23:02] <arraybolt3> Elw3: (And really, I put my script in /usr/bin, but I think you're not supposed to do that...)
[23:02] <tomreyn> or you could edit /etc/sysctl.d/10-magic-sysrq.conf
[23:03] <Battaglin> ok.. now the root shows as about 63 gigs
[23:03] <Elw3> Running scripts to set it is not exactly what i call permaset.
[23:04] <tomreyn> Battaglin: congrats
[23:05] <arraybolt3> Elw3: Hey, try "nano /etc/sysctl.conf". On my system, at the very end, there's a setting for Magic SysRq (the feature that, among other things, lets you do the OOM killer thing).
[23:05] <Battaglin> tomreyn: yeah.. but pvresize is not doing what article says
[23:05] <Battaglin> from what I can see from output
[23:05] <arraybolt3> Elw3: I *believe* you can probably set the kernel.sysrq value to 64 and be happy.
[23:06] <tomreyn> Battaglin: well, based on what you said it did resize it?
[23:06] <tomreyn> or at least you got there by other means
[23:06] <Battaglin> tomreyn: https://i.imgur.com/lglLoCj.png I tink so yeah
[23:06] <tomreyn> arraybolt3: that would disable the other functions, though
[23:07] <Elw3> that file is compeletly commented, the file tomreyn mentioned, 10-magic was set to kernel.sysrq = 176 tho. That means some stuff was already enabled, no?
[23:07] <arraybolt3> tomreyn: Are there any features enabled by default? (I was purposefully leaving the others off for security.)
[23:08] <arraybolt3> Elw3: I believe you'd need to uncomment the line to work. If it's set to 176... let me see what that works out to as far as what features are enabled so far.
[23:08] <tomreyn> Battaglin: oh in your case you need to resize partition 5, not just 2
[23:08] <Elw3> It IS uncommented.
[23:09] <tomreyn> Elw3: just add 64 to the existing value, maybe keep a commented out copy of the original line for reference
[23:09] <arraybolt3> Elw3: Sounds like you're in a different file (by the file name it sounds like it controls Magic SysRq though.)
[23:09] <Elw3> So either this file is not used or ubuntu has them enabled by default...
[23:09] <arraybolt3> tomreyn: Oh yeah huh... Elw3: Follow tomreyn's advice.
[23:10] <tomreyn> arraybolt3: i suspect you missed <tomreyn> or you could edit /etc/sysctl.d/10-magic-sysrq.conf
[23:10] <tomreyn> arraybolt3: sorry for getting in the way ;)
[23:11] <arraybolt3> tomreyn: Yep. I'm so focused typing I keep missing messages that are elsewhere. (Don't be sorry, you were able to get to the solution, whereas I was going to dissect the existing value... :facepalm:)
[23:11] <Elw3> But are all these conf files actually used on boot?
[23:12] <arraybolt3> Elw3: I believe so. Usually stuff like that is used on boot. If you're in the mood for experimenting, do tomreyn's tweak (add 64 to the existing value), then reboot, max out your memory, and try the shortcut to see what happens.
[23:13] <arraybolt3> (But don't have anything important open when you do the shortcut...)
[23:13] <tomreyn> Elw3: there's a systemd service which reads and interprets these configuration files after the sysfs file system has been brought up
[23:14] <tomreyn> systemd-sysctl.service
[23:15] <Elw3> I wonder, if i delete these, i get the kernel defaults, presumably the ones compiled in?
[23:15] <tomreyn> (which is just a virtual file system provided by the kernel)
[23:15] <tomreyn> don't delete, comment out, but yes, you should
[23:16] <tomreyn> i mean you should get kernel build defaults then. i don't mean that you should do this.
[23:16] <arraybolt3> Elw3: Generally, if you're thinking, "Hey, I wonder what happens if I delete xyz...", don't do it. If you must satisfy your curiosity, spin up a VM and try it there. (If you want to do that, do "sudo apt install virt-manager" and be happy.)
[23:16] <Bashing-om> elw
[23:16] <Elw3> Maybe one time in the future i gonna try minimize out boot times and space usage, so finding out what to delete is helpful.
[23:16] <Bashing-om> Elw3: See too: https://linuxconfig.org/how-to-enable-all-sysrq-functions-on-linux .
[23:17] <arraybolt3> Elw3: VM's are SO AWESOME for doing experimental tweaks like that.  (Are you sure that KVM acceleration is working on your system? I guess if you don't do VMs, it doesn't matter, but that might explain the lag.)
[23:23] <Elw3> I used qemu in the past to load isos on a some very old 500mhz laptop, that worked great. But my current working maschine? Nope.
[23:24] <arraybolt3> Elw3: You probably don't have hardware virtualization enabled on your system. You can do that from within the BIOS setup. Also you need to launch QEMU with the "-accel kvm" option (though virt-manager does that automatically).
[23:24] <arraybolt3> My machine can run VMs quite fast, and I do much of my work in them.
[23:25] <arraybolt3> s/do that/enable that
[23:26] <Elw3> I was already looking for that but i cant find options for that in the bios.
[23:27] <arraybolt3> Elw3: Try looking under stuff like "Security". I believe that's where I usually find the setting.
[23:28] <ravage> it is a CPU feature. so i would look there
[23:28] <arraybolt3> Yeah, if you're using QEMU without KVM, no wonder you hate VMs. QEMU without KVM is... truly awful.
[23:30] <Elw3> I dont think that existed 15 years ago yet quemu worked great then...
[23:31] <arraybolt3> Elw3: There used to be other ways of accelerating VMs that are now obsolete - hardware virt is considered the way to go most of the time. I'd guess your old system probably was using one of the old ways of making a faster VM.
[23:32] <Elw3> ay
[23:32] <Elw3> i want that back :D
[23:32] <arraybolt3> Elw3: How old is your system?
[23:33] <Elw3> from 2009 i think
[23:33] <arraybolt3> Elw3: Yeah, it sounds good. VirtualBox used to be able to do it (but only for 32-bit VMs), but recently even they got rid of that. (VirtualBox was junk anyway, but it was unique in that it didn't always need hardware virt - oh well.)
[23:34] <arraybolt3> Elw3: Your system should support hardware virt. What brand and model is your system?
[23:35] <Elw3> I really dont want to use something that needs bios settings.
[23:36] <arraybolt3> Elw3: Sadly, all major hypervisors require enabled hardware virtualization, which usually needs a bios setting change to enable it.
[23:37] <Battaglin> darn.. didnt think this would be difficult
[23:37] <Battaglin> grr
[23:37] <ravage> arraybolt3, maybe continue this in the offtopic channel. this channel is for Ubuntu support questions
[23:38] <Elw3> there is nothing to add i guess.
[23:38] <arraybolt3> ravage: Sorry, thought I was helping get QEMU working in Ubuntu, which I thought was on-topic. I'll stop and move there.
[23:39] <ravage> i dont think he ever asked for that ;) he does not like VMs
[23:39] <Elw3> ay
[23:40] <arraybolt3> ravage: He said "I want that back", so... Byt, still, Elw3: I'm happy to continue in @ubuntu-offtopic if that's better for everyone.
[23:41] <arraybolt3> Argh, I meant #ubuntu-offtopic...


[19:21] <ibeardslee> morning
[21:20] <mwhudson> morning
[21:33] <atamira> morning
[23:32] <hads_> morning


[12:22] <daftykins> *sigh* push the openssl update to hosts yesterday, handle some reboots... then this morning spot a new kernel
[12:22] <daftykins> it's so frustrating, the drip-feed of updates :/
[12:28] <popey> Patch tuesday!
[12:28] <daftykins> yep so much more sane and scheduled :)
[13:23] <davef> Not when you have a fleet of 150 Windows computers to manage.
[22:18] <daftykins> https://i.imgur.com/l2PS4mK.png
[22:47] <zxmpi>  i start to worry about them after 10
[22:48] <daftykins> :)
[22:49] <zxmpi> of course my psion is 26 this year. have a few other bits and bobs that are ancient and in fine working order
[22:51] <zxmpi> if i ever win the lottery i've promised myself a real vt100 as a primary terminal :-D