[13:26] <glen> i don't understand how to use break lock
[13:26] <glen> help does not give any clues
[13:26] <glen> http://sprunge.us/SRfi
[13:26] <glen> wtf i'm supposed to add as argument?!
[13:27] <glen> what is the definition of LOCATION?
[13:30] <glen> fine. created bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/1511372
[13:54] <Peng> glen: LOCATION is bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~glen666/eventum/po/ :-\
[13:55] <Peng> > Using saved push location: bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~glen666/eventum/po/
[13:55] <Peng> $ bzr help push | head
[13:55] <Peng> Purpose: Update a mirror of this branch.
[13:55] <Peng> Usage:   bzr push [LOCATION]
[13:59] <Peng> In this case, you could also use `bzr break-lock :push` (see `bzr help location-aliases`).
[13:59] <Peng> I'm assuming breaking the lock is actually a good idea in your situation, ~shrug~
[14:00] <Peng> Which is a large assumption, but whatever.
[14:00] <Peng> Is this a case of... what's that bash.org quote.
[14:00] <Peng> http://bash.org/?152037
[14:01] <Peng> (urgh, is there a version of that quote without any slurs?)
[14:20] <glen> Peng: haha


[00:04] <shqlqlqlq> i removed it
[00:04] <shqlqlqlq> will have to look for something else
[00:04] <shqlqlqlq> looks like wxl couldn't make it run too :)
[00:05] <kc2bez> Oh yeah, I just tried to run it and it segfaulted.
[00:06] <shqlqlqlq> I guess lubuntu doesn't like ebook readers
[00:06] <shqlqlqlq> :)
[00:10] <kc2bez> I'm not sure what format you are looking for but Okular supports EPub
[00:10] <shqlqlqlq> epub
[00:10] <shqlqlqlq> read that they removed the epub support
[00:10] <shqlqlqlq> will check it
[00:12] <kc2bez> Here is a chart of supported formats: https://okular.kde.org/formats.php
[01:11] <hawkedracorr> hello.
[01:18] <guiverc> hawkedracorr, Hi, if you have a lubuntu support question, please just ask it (try and keep to a single line, and be patient as people will respond if & when they can)
[10:59] <zap0> i have bionic,  how do i upgrade it  to dog?
[11:07] <kc2bez> zap0: While it is technically possible to upgrade we recommend a fresh install. That being said, if you wish to upgrade please see this section of our manual as it should help guide you through the process: https://manual.lubuntu.me/D/upgrading.html
[11:16] <zap0> how do i get to this  `Software & Updates` dialog?
[11:21] <kc2bez> menu --> preferences --> Software and Updates
[11:21] <zap0> preferences  has no   Software and Updates
[11:22] <kc2bez> I don't have a bionic install up right now, standby I will see if I can get one spun up.
[11:22] <zap0> the last thing in alpha order is   screen saver
[11:24] <zap0> update-manager -d   does it's thing,  but on completion there is no [Settings]  button.
[11:24] <zap0> sudo update-manager -d   the same.
[11:25] <zap0> i'm a little suspisicios of badly rendered menu..... there is piles of overhead screen space.... yet the menu for preferences  only renders text to  alpha order 'Screen Saver'
[11:25] <kc2bez> Please open a terminal and issue the following command `lsb_release -a`
[11:25] <zap0> are there more entires post 'sc..'
[11:25] <zap0> are there more entires past 'sc..'
[11:26] <zap0> 18.04.2 LTS,  18.04, bionic
[11:26] <kc2bez> ok, your menu seems different than mine.
[11:27] <zap0> i see about 16/20  items....  B, C, D, D, D, F, I, K..  last one is screen saver
[11:27] <kc2bez> If I click on the menu then go under preferences I see software & updates at the bottom.
[11:28] <zap0> if i cursor keys past the screensaver (off screen) it wraps to the 1st one.. so the UI code obvious only thinks it's got entries upto screen saver
[11:28] <kc2bez> from the terminal if you issue a `software-properties-gtk` it should bring up the screen you are looking for.
[11:29] <zap0> that's not installed,  but apt suggestinos says i can install it
[11:32] <kc2bez> This is a Lubuntu install right?
[11:32] <zap0> fairly sure
[11:33] <zap0> what identifies it as Lubuntu?
[11:34] <zap0> i apt-'d it.  it's running now
[11:36] <kc2bez> In the terminal issue a `echo $DESKTOP_SESSION`
[11:37] <zap0> Lubuntu
[11:37] <zap0> ok, now i've changed the : tell me about all updates (not just LTS).
[11:37] <kc2bez> ok thanks.
[11:38] <zap0> i think i have to reboot it, and then update again
[11:38] <kc2bez> The manual should get you through from here I think. Please let us know if you have any further questions.
[11:39] <zap0> ok, thanks!
[17:56] <isabellecruz> hey
[17:56] <diogenes_> hi
[17:58] <isabellecruz> it's okay ?
[18:03] <ulyssefardin> Hello
[18:03] <ulyssefardin> How are you the World
[18:04] <jollydutchman> How can I use QtCurve themes?
[18:04] <isabellecruz> i'm here
 @jollydutchman [<jollydutchman> How can I use QtCurve themes?], which QtCurve themes?
 sudo apt install qtcurve
[18:13] <jollydutchman> https://www.opendesktop.org/p/1102652/
[18:13] <jollydutchman> https://github.com/KaOSx/midna
 you are in lubuntu 19.04?
[18:15] <isabellecruz> i have
 I've bee trying to understand how qt themes work, but I haven't go far
[18:16] <jollydutchman> I can make applications use the qtcurve engine by setting the QT_STYLE_OVERRIDE=qtcurve environment variable, but the style is not applied. It looks very Windows 95-ish
 did yuu: sudo apt install qtcurve
 ?
[18:17] <jollydutchman> I thought I was supposed to copy-paste the contents of the .qtcurve file for the theme I want into ~/.config/qtcurve/stylerc, but that doesn't seem to be working for me
 you can also instal qt-style-kvantum
[18:17] <jollydutchman> Right, well, frankly I don't want kvantum.
 sorry qt5-style-kvantum
 have you install qtcurve?
 after installing qtcurve I can select it
 is not big change from breeze though
[18:20] <jollydutchman> Are you being serious
 you could also play with qt5ct
[18:20] <jollydutchman> You want to know if I have qtcurve installed
[18:20] <jollydutchman> Yeah, qt5ct gives me the same problem
[18:20] <jollydutchman> I can set qtcurve as the theme engine with qt5ct, but the style isn't applied
[18:21] <jollydutchman> No matter what goes into my ~/.config/qtcurve/stylerc, applications look the same
 have you solved the "The QT_QPA_PLATFORMTHEME environment variable is not set correctly (current value: lxqt, required value: qt5ct)."
[18:22] <jollydutchman> Yes, I have set QT_QPA_PLATFORMTHEME to qt5ct
 I'm out of ideas, I can olvy give you some info to read: https://github.com/lxqt/lxqt/wiki/Themes
 https://github.com/lxqt/lxqt/issues/572
[18:24] <ulyssefardin> Who have pick D3
[18:24] <ulyssefardin> ?
[18:24] <ulyssefardin> ?
[18:26] <ulyssefardin> isabellecruz hello
[18:27] <isabellecruz> hello
[18:29] <ulyssefardin> hello who have ubuntu 19.04 disc repository on iso
[18:44] <teward> ulyssefardin: I would think "nobody".
[18:44] <ulyssefardin> teward ok
[18:45] <ulyssefardin> teward how can i install full software of synaptic
[18:53] <ulyssefardin> nobody speal
[18:53] <ulyssefardin> speak
[18:53] <isabellecruz> how can i install full software of synaptic teward?
[18:55] <kc2bez> isabellecruz: You want to install synaptic? or software from synaptic?
[18:56] <ulyssefardin> kc2bez she wants install full software on synaptic
[19:01] <isabellecruz> I need to install all the synaptic packages
[19:03] <teward> isabellecruz: as in the synaptic package manager, or the Synaptics Touchpad driver?
[19:03] <teward> (ERR: Unclear.  Also I do have a job so I'm not here 24/7)
[19:04] <isabellecruz>  teward manager
[19:04] <teward> NORMALLY it would be `sudo apt install synaptic` on the command line
[19:04] <teward> and it'd fetch its deps too
[19:05] <isabellecruz>  i need all package of synaptic manager listed
[19:06] <isabellecruz> because it's for my OS ubuntu
[19:15] <ulyssefardin> nobody are there ?
[19:15] <ulyssefardin> Allo
[19:15] <isabellecruz> a person who speacks ?
[19:15] <kc2bez> I don't think anyone has an answer to your question.
[19:15] <kc2bez> !patience
 i think it's a little unclear what you're trying to accomplish as well
[19:17] <isabellecruz> okau thanks
[23:00] <david__> hola


[12:06] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[22:38] <dscassel> Meeting in 30 minutes!
[22:38] <dscassel> (give or take)
[22:39] <dscassel> Probably should've given more warning...
[22:41] <genii-around> dscassel: In here?
[22:41]  * genii-around makes a fresh pot of coffee
[22:45] <dscassel> genii-around: Yup.
[22:45] <genii-around> OK. Guess I can hang at work for a while :)
[22:49] <dscassel> Woo!
[22:50]  * dscassel is hanging out at Kwartzlab, waiting for things to start.
[22:50] <genii-around> Making a Timmies run, back in 5-7
[22:55] <BobJonkman> Meeting!?  I'm supposed to be making dinner!
[22:55] <genii-around> Microwave!
[22:55] <genii-around> j/k
[22:57] <dscassel> Meeting in 3!
[22:57] <dscassel> BobJonkman: Microwave! :D
[22:57] <BobJonkman> Supposed to be fresh veggies with dip
[22:58] <BobJonkman> I need to slice and dice and dip
[23:00] <dscassel> All right, let's get this thing underway.
[23:01] <genii-around> Anyone to ping or so on?
[23:02] <dscassel> Mass call! DavidLevin james_w KombuchaKip oracology Jeruvy Kulag rgreening willwh bregma FiReSTaRT Kamondelious lborda ryanakca zeroedout cdbs kavurt sipherdee cyphermox IdleOne kenjy MagicFab starcraftman DarwinSurvivor jaguar khoover MylesBraithwaite txwikinger
[23:02] <dscassel> Ubuntu Canada Meeting starting now!
[23:02] <txwikinger> hey
[23:03] <dscassel> Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CanadianTeam/Meetings/2011-10-04
[23:03] <dscassel> hey txwikinger :)
[23:03] <dscassel> Feel free to introduce yourselves.
[23:03] <dscassel> I'm Darcy, LoCo Contact for Ubuntu Canada and I'll be chairing the meeting today.
[23:04] <genii-around> I'm Mike, from Toronto
[23:04] <BobJonkman> Hi all!  I'm Bob Jonkman from Elmira ON, just north of Waterloo - Ubuntu Enthusiast
[23:05] <dscassel> (If anybody else wants to chair future meetings, I'm looking for new volunteers. It's pretty easy, but I need to start delegating more. :)
[23:05] <dscassel> Hi BobJonkman, genii-around :)
[23:06] <DarwinSurvivor> Doug from Surrey (vancouver)
[23:07]  * genii-around slides DarwinSurvivor a coffee
[23:08] <dscassel> Welcome to the meeting, DarwinSurvivor :)
[23:08] <dscassel> That's everybody?
[23:09] <genii-around> Seems so
[23:09] <dscassel> Release parties!
[23:10] <dscassel> I guess we've just got the two.
[23:10] <genii-around> dscassel: -qc is not having one?
[23:10] <dscassel> I'll be throwing one Saturday, October 15 at Kwartzlab in Kitchener.
[23:10] <dscassel> genii-around: Probably!
[23:11] <dscassel> MagicFab: Are you guys hosting a release party?  We should get it in our calendar.
[23:11] <genii-around> The Toronto party is on release day, October 13
[23:11] <dscassel> Vancouver's probably doing one too, but they're usually much later after release.
[23:11] <BobJonkman> Toronto apparently has one next Thursday
[23:12]  * BobJonkman needs to read faster and type slower
[23:12] <dscassel> (Quebec and Vancouver are independent of Ubuntu Canada, but it's nice to know what's going on)
[23:13] <willwh> HI GUYS
[23:13] <willwh> late to the party as usual ;)
[23:13] <dscassel> Hi, willwh :D
[23:13]  * genii-around slides willwh a beverage of their choice
[23:13] <willwh> you know fine well it's coffee ;D
[23:13] <genii-around> Hehe
[23:13]  * willwh sips
[23:13] <dscassel> DarwinSurvivor: Have you ever been to Ubuntu Vancouver's parties?
[23:14]  * bregma shows up fashionable late and dressed in black
[23:14] <bregma> hey all
[23:14] <DarwinSurvivor> dscassel: haven't been to any of there stuff in person
[23:14] <DarwinSurvivor> just constributed virtually a bit
[23:15] <willwh> oi bregma :)
[23:15] <willwh> I'm just running through the agenda notes, brb
[23:15] <dscassel> bregma: Ever considered running a release party? :D
[23:15] <bregma> I live in the back woods, I can party by myself but....
[23:16] <willwh> I live in Victoria, and I should probably run one
[23:16] <bregma> maybe get my daughter's boyfriend from up the line, he run Ubuntu
[23:16] <dscassel> DarwinSurvivor: Cool.  They're pretty enthusiastic about their parties.
[23:16] <IdleOne> dscassel: cyphermox is handling arrangements for the -qc release and I believe he will announce an "official" date tomorrow.
[23:17] <dscassel> IdleOne: Excellent. :D
[23:17] <genii-around> bregma: Blueskaj is up around Espanola, he might go
[23:17] <dscassel> willwh: Yes. Yes you should.
[23:17] <willwh> life is so busy atm - work, contract work, 3 month old... ;)
[23:17] <willwh> I will see what I can do
[23:17] <dscassel> Babies. Yeah.
[23:18] <genii-around> bregma: ( assuming Ontario, sorry if not )
[23:18] <willwh> I do have the perfect venue; http://moonunderwater.ca
[23:18] <willwh> I know the owners well :)
[23:18] <genii-around> Cool.
[23:18] <dscassel> willwh: Do it! :D
[23:19] <dscassel> Corey and Brian Burger are in Victoria.  You should invite them.
[23:19] <willwh> funnny oyu mentioned that - I just IM'd corey
[23:19] <willwh> he's probably stuck in a tree, or, mapping something, and very afk.
[23:19] <dscassel> Heh.
[23:20] <BobJonkman> Post URP announcements on the mailing list too, and make sure to get them on the Ubuntu calendar
[23:21] <willwh> I will - as soon as I confirm with Moon.
[23:21] <dscassel> Yeah, getting them up on the LoCo directory is nice, but I can do that if details are posted to the mailing list.
[23:21] <willwh> great dscassel.
[23:22] <BobJonkman> psema4 and I never did have our September Ubuntu Hour; I should ask him about turning into a URP in Hamilton
[23:22] <genii-around> Confirmations from LoCo directory are way down for me from last year. One "openiduser" with a guest or two possibly.
[23:22] <dscassel> BobJonkman: That'd be awesome.
[23:23] <dscassel> genii-around: Nobody every RSVPs for me. Except BobJonkman and txwikinger of course.
[23:23] <BobJonkman> It'll be at least a week after the KW URP, maybe I can scoop some laser CDs ?
[23:23] <dscassel> BobJonkman: Sure.
[23:23] <BobJonkman> Yay!
[23:24] <dscassel> I don't have an ocelot design yet.  Holly may get her 11th grade art class to make one. ^^;
[23:26] <genii-around> dscassel: I still have 8-10 official Natty remaining from when you were down last, I'm putting those on display as well. I'm not going to make a lot of new ones this time, got stuck with them, ended up putting them liberally on the corkboards and flyer counters around neighbourhood.
[23:26] <genii-around> Probably make them on the fly this time
[23:27]  * starcraftman comes back to life after a long public transit ride.
[23:27]  * genii-around slides starcraftman a coffee
[23:28] <dscassel> genii-around: Yeah, makes sense.
[23:28]  * starcraftman hopes its strong.
[23:29] <genii-around> starcraftman: Yes :)
[23:29] <dscassel> My todo is list is: design and print CD labels (need to start soon, since they take a while to print), order cake.
[23:29] <dscassel> I don't have time for posters, I don't think.
[23:30] <BobJonkman> I'm not sure anyone ever comes because of a poster.
[23:30] <BobJonkman> But they make good reminders for people who were planning on coming anyway
[23:31] <genii-around> dscassel: I wanted to use this pic for cd art: http://fr3ak.deviantart.com/art/ocelot-76784799  but the artist has not gotten back to me yet about using it
[23:31] <dscassel> I need to send out reminders to the usual mailing lists too.
[23:31] <dscassel> genii-around: That's awesome.
[23:31] <dscassel> I'd have to test it to see how it turns out in lightscribe.
[23:32] <genii-around> I'll bug him again soon
[23:32] <starcraftman> genii-around: damn, now that's some cool stuff. Can you ask him to put it forward for Ubuntu wallpaper, now that's something to get people interested!
[23:34] <dscassel> Also, local reddits. Kwartzlab got some good uptake from using the waterloo reddit to publicize stuff.
[23:34] <dscassel> I'll need to post a blog post announcement too.
[23:35] <starcraftman> dscassel: proven fact, anyone nerdy enough to use Linux has to be on reddit :)
[23:36] <dscassel> starcraftman: I'm not, but as generalizations go, probably accurate enough. :)
[23:37] <starcraftman> dscassel: ya, I guess reddit has gotten a bit less popular among techies,  not like back when everyone migrated from digg. Feels weird hasn't been a new site like that to replace reddit yet.
[23:37]  * BobJonkman is a non-reddit, non-digg luddite
[23:37] <dscassel> I think a lot of UW students use the local reddit.
[23:37] <genii-around> Sorry for lag, since I'm still here at work late, someone came by I had to talk to. 1 minute please
[23:38] <dscassel> genii-around: Sure.
[23:38]  * dscassel is periodically distracted by people here at Kwartzlab open night.
[23:38] <dscassel> BobJonkman: Do you have any free cycles over the next week? Can I offload any of my TODO list on you?
[23:39] <genii-around> starcraftman: I'll put it in my next message to him
[23:39] <BobJonkman> Busy every night into the weekend; next week should be somewhat better
[23:39]  * starcraftman has little to no time, full course load and interviews for coop. Sorry. :/
[23:39] <BobJonkman> Send me your list, I'll cherry-pick the most lucrative deals
[23:40] <dscassel> BobJonkman: Sure. :)
[23:41] <willwh> starcraftman: news.ycombinator.com && slashdot.org - what else do you need?
[23:41] <willwh> follow the folk you like on g+ ;]
[23:42] <starcraftman> willwh: no thanks on g+, google knows enough without me just giving them my personal data.
[23:42] <genii-around> dscassel: I never heard back if the Toronto video feed last time was good/bad/etc. Since it was something experimental I was wondering whether to repeat or not. Since the parties are all different days maybe not this time though.
[23:43] <dscassel> genii-around: I checked in a couple times. Cool idea, but I couldn't make out much of what was going on.
[23:44] <dscassel> genii-around: I've got a Kwartzlab board meeting next Thurs. so I can't really check on it this time.
[23:45] <genii-around> Yeah that room is dimly lit and we didn't really have some focal point like speakers or displays, etc. Maybe for next LTS
[23:47] <dscassel> Any other thoughts on release parties?
[23:48] <dscassel> Okay.. FSOSS!
[23:49] <genii-around> You need help with booth or so on?
[23:49] <dscassel> If you're in Toronto or vicinity, you should seriously consider coming to the Free Software and Open Source Symposium slash Toronto Linuxfest October 27-29
[23:49] <dscassel> genii-around: Apparently you need to pay for booths so we're not getting one.
[23:50] <genii-around> Ah, OK. I think the FreeGeek gang is down there already
[23:50] <dscassel> *grumble*
[23:50] <dscassel> genii-around: Yeah, I heard this from Sammy.
[23:50] <rugbeeprop> hello
[23:50] <dscassel> I'm hoping I'll have CDs in time. Although I'm not going to blow my whole shipment on them.
[23:50]  * genii-around slides rugbeeprop a coffee
[23:50] <dscassel> rugbeeprop: Hi! Welcome the the Ubuntu Canada IRC meeting.  Where you from?
[23:51]  * starcraftman wish they held more linux events like FSOSS in montrealish area.
[23:51] <dscassel> genii-around: Otherwise I'd order a conference pack.
[23:51] <rugbeeprop> hi Darcy, Tek here, Oshawa
[23:51] <dscassel> starcraftman: I wish they had more stuff like this in Toronto too. :)
[23:52]  * BobJonkman is sad that FSOSS/Linuxfest conflicts severely with unmissable family obligations
[23:52] <dscassel> I've skipped FSOSS in the past, mostly because it's a "symposium"
[23:52] <dscassel> rugbeeprop: Hey, Tek!
[23:52] <dscassel> How do you feel about running a release party in Oshawa? :D
[23:52] <rugbeeprop> lol
[23:52] <starcraftman> dscassel: but symposiums are epic, they were on Futurama!
[23:52] <rugbeeprop> great... who is organising it?
[23:53] <dscassel> rugbeeprop: Although genii-around will be hosting one in Toronto if you'd rather commute.
[23:53] <genii-around> Or failing Oshawa release party, coming to Toronto!
[23:53] <dscassel> rugbeeprop: That'd be you. :)
[23:53] <rugbeeprop> lol who else is from around Durham region?
[23:54] <dscassel> rugbeeprop: I'm sure I've heard of someone else, but nobody on my list.
[23:54]  * dscassel keeps a list
[23:54] <genii-around> dscassel: I'll get in touch with the FreeGeek guys and try to coordinate
[23:55] <rugbeeprop> what does it involved? I have never been to any release party before
[23:55] <genii-around> I might also be able to raise a few Toronto FreeNet people
[23:56] <dscassel> genii-around: That'd be cool. I'll need to know ASAP if I should order a conference pack.
[23:56] <genii-around> OK
[23:56] <dscassel> (brokerage fees cost a bunch of money, so I'd prefer not to if there's no use for it)
[23:57] <BobJonkman> What's in a conference pack?
[23:58] <BobJonkman> If we're slowing down, I just want to mention @chaslinux's Ubuntu Hour in Kitchener on Friday.
[23:59] <dscassel> http://www.lczajkowski.com/2010/08/24/new-conference-packs-for-loco-teams/
[23:59] <dscassel> (sorry, got distracted by Kwartzlab people)
[23:59] <dscassel> BobJonkman: Great! Of course, I'll be out of town. Again.


[11:36] <Aison`> It looks like I have some kind of ddos attack to my DNS servers
[11:37] <Aison`> both ubuntu bind9 servers keep segfaulting after many thousend of requests
[11:37] <Aison`> see here: https://dpaste.org/SX29#L16
[11:37] <Aison`> maybe I can block the IP with fail2ban somehow?
[11:37] <Aison`> BIND 9.16.1-Ubuntu (Stable Release) <id:d497c32>
[11:41] <sdeziel> Aison`: are you using the latest bind9 version: 1:9.16.1-0ubuntu2.2
[11:42] <Aison`> yes
[11:44] <sdeziel> Aison`: OK good. Could you run a tcpdump capture of the traffic leading to a crash? If you could attach it along with the crash dump to a LP bug, I'm sure it could help having the problem fixed
[11:48] <Aison`> :( now it stopped crashing
[11:48] <sdeziel> https://bind9.readthedocs.io/en/v9_16_5/notes.html#notes-for-bind-9-16-5 show a few assertion failures were fixed since the 9.16.1 release
[11:55] <Aison`> I can not reproduce the sefault
[11:56] <Aison`> it's just "luck" when it happens
[12:45] <RoyK> Aison`: IIRC, installing the -dbg package will allow the crash to be dumped through gdb, but not sure if everyhing is automatic
[13:30] <Aison`> RoyK, there is not dbg for bind
[13:31] <Aison`> sdeziel, how can I tcpdump the whole udp53 traffic to a file? I can not google it right now ;)
[13:33] <RoyK> tshark tshark -f "udp and port 53"
[13:34] <RoyK> without the first tshark ;)
[13:34] <RoyK> tshark is the new tcpdump
[13:35] <sdeziel> Aison`: otherwise: tcpdump -w /tmp/dns.pcap -ni $iface port 53
[13:36] <sdeziel> Aison`: DNS also happens on TCP/53 so I'd capture both
[18:26] <Ussat> OK, so this is on Ubuntu 18.04, andone want to take a look and lend a hand with a syslog-ng issue ? https://pastebin.com/EV7km0QW\
[18:27] <oerheks> Page not found.
[18:27] <oerheks> use paste.ubuntu.com :-D
[18:28] <sarnold> it's https://pastebin.com/EV7km0QW
[18:29] <sarnold> and it requires rather more syslog knowledge than I've got
[18:32] <oerheks> oh i see, hit the enter+\
[18:34] <sarnold> hehe, yeah, I saw the contents just a few minutes earlier from another shared channel earlier and knew that it worked :) hehe
[18:34] <oerheks> i'll remember that ..
[19:50] <RoyK> just don't use pastebin dot com - it's a spmmer - there are several places that are better to use. I stick to paste.debian.net, but that's just me
[19:58] <Ussat> ...fine whatever
[19:58] <Ussat> I have never had an issue with pastebin
[20:00] <RoyK> it's just that it sucks and it dumps ads on you if you mention it to a stranger
[20:04] <Aison> hello i'm still fighting with my ISC DHCP Server who tries to access LDAP for name resolving
[20:05] <Aison> sadly apparmor is blocking this call
[20:05] <sarnold> Aison: pastebin your DENIED lines?
[20:06] <Aison> this is dmesg: [2946488.790491] audit: type=1400 audit(1597781143.428:28280): apparmor="DENIED" operation="connect" info="Failed name lookup - disconnected path" error=-13 profile="/usr/sbin/dhcpd" name="run/slapd-inetserv.socket" pid=1121070 comm="isc-worker0000" requested_mask="wr" denied_mask="wr" fsuid=110 ouid=0
[20:07] <sarnold> Aison: you'll need to add 'flags=(attach_disconnected)' to your profile, check /etc/apparmor.d/ for a few examples
[20:07] <Aison> here the profile from apparmor dhcp: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/Gkv4jsxcjx/
[20:08] <Aison> I added lines beginning at 29
[20:08] <Aison> sarnold, ok
[20:22] <Aison> and dhcpd tries to access also /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_local_port_range?
[20:26] <sdeziel> sounds reasonable to me


[00:01] <sidi> that seems like a super mega painful way of installing music players man
[00:01] <bluesabre> painful, but effective ;)
[01:05] <knome> this is still a bit blown out, but
[01:05] <knome> http://wiki.xubuntu.org/
[01:14] <bluesabre> knome: yay!
[01:18] <genii> Looks alittle spartan but nice
[01:21] <knome> you would totally not figure out i'm thinking i might integrate it with the tracker.
[01:34] <bluesabre> whaaaaaaaaaa
[01:34] <bluesabre> x.x
[01:35] <knome> wut?
[01:35] <knome> not liking it? :P
[01:46] <bluesabre> :)
[01:46] <bluesabre> in other news, https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~catfish-search/catfish-search/trunk/revision/430
[01:46] <bluesabre> :D
[01:47] <knome> heh, yay
[01:53] <knome> http://wiki.xubuntu.org/doku.php?id=marketing:start
[01:53] <knome> hacky-hack
[01:53] <knome> (see the cool title)
[01:53] <knome> (and compare to the path in the URL)
[01:54] <knome> (or the file path in the page footer)
[01:55] <bluesabre> faaaaancy
[01:57] <Unit193> You're going to want to restrict those registrations...
[01:57] <knome> also, http://wiki.xubuntu.org/doku.php?id=marketing:licenses
[01:57] <knome> Unit193, likely,.
[01:57] <knome> anybody want to create an account before i do so? :P
[02:05] <knome> i'm off to bed
[02:06] <knome> will let you register and stuff
[02:06] <knome> ttyl and good night!
[02:07] <bluesabre> nighty knome
[02:09] <bluesabre> it's okay, looks like the email did not send, or @ubuntu.com redirect failed
[06:25] <flocculant> knome: gvfs updates yesterday - thunar is now reverting to type and crashing here :D
[10:01] <knome> flocculant, hooray
[10:01] <knome> btw, is mousepad crashing for you too?
[10:03] <knome> bluesabre, re: email, talking to me?
[11:36] <bluesabre> flocculant: woohoo
[11:37] <bluesabre> knome: yes, registered with bluesabre@ubuntu, didn't get an email... somebody want to send me a test email?
[11:39] <Akxwi-dave> to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>?   :-)
[11:39] <knome> bluesabre, done
[11:39] <Akxwi-dave> and morning bluesabre
[11:39] <knome> for me, the dokuwiki mail went straight to spam
[11:39] <Akxwi-dave> and knome
[11:39] <knome> hey Akxwi-dave :)
[11:40] <knome> bluesabre, was from email "www-data@xubuntu-dev"
[11:40] <knome> bluesabre, that might not ringing the trust bells for your email provider :P
[11:40] <bluesabre> knome: doesn't seem to be in my spam or anything
[11:40] <knome> weird
[11:40] <knome> let me do the following
[11:40] <knome> remove your account
[11:41] <knome> change the from to something sensible
[11:41] <knome> then you can register again
[11:41] <bluesabre> k
[11:43] <knome> bluesabre, so i also sent you a regular email
[11:43] <knome> and the above is done, feel free to re-register
[11:43] <bluesabre> knome: yes, responded to it
[11:43] <knome> should be<EMAIL_ADDRESS>now
[11:43] <knome> oh yes
[11:46] <bluesabre> still not seeing one
[11:46] <bluesabre> maybe I should try my non ubuntu one
[11:47] <bluesabre> ok, using my gmail worked
[11:47] <bluesabre> weird
[11:49] <knome> let me remove 1 and then rename 2 to 1
[11:49] <knome> ok?
[11:50] <knome> or actually
[12:01] <knome> do we need the last modified date to be visible on the wiki at all times?
[12:01] <knome> or tbe, do we want to?
[12:02] <knome> or is it mostly moot, and we trust that people know how to look at the history
[12:07] <bluesabre> I don't think it's bad to display
[12:07] <bluesabre> makes it clear when something has not been updated
[12:08] <knome> right
[12:09] <knome> i'll figure out a place for it then
[12:16] <flocculant> knome: mousepad hasn't been crashing no - but I'm using whatever ppa one we have currently ofc
[12:16] <knome> mm
[12:18] <flocculant> and no way to register at wiki.xubuntu.org here
[12:18] <knome> you mean there is no registration link?
[12:18] <flocculant> nope
[12:19] <knome> lies!
[12:19] <flocculant> there was this morning - but at 6 am not something I was going to be doing ...
[12:19] <knome> =;)
[12:19] <knome> O;) too
[12:19] <knome> or, refresh
[12:19] <flocculant> http://i.imgur.com/kN85QPC.png
[12:19] <knome> refresh
[12:20] <flocculant> oh it turned up now on the other side of the page ...
[12:20] <knome> ;)
[12:20] <knome> cleaning up as i go...
[12:22] <flocculant> not very quick sending e-mail is it
[12:22] <knome> it is
[12:22] <knome> but it's probably in your poop folder
[12:22] <knome> wait a second
[12:23] <flocculant> nope - they turn up quick too :)
[12:34] <knome> ok, so:
[12:34] <knome> currently, anybody can read and edit
[12:35] <knome> everybody in @team (eg. the xubuntu team) can do anything
[12:35] <knome> also, there is a namespace team:*
[12:35] <bluesabre> flocculant: are you using your ubuntu email?
[12:35] <bluesabre> ubuntu for me never sent, gmail was instant
[12:35] <knome> in which team members can do everything, but others can't do anything
[12:35] <knome> bluesabre, he doesn't
[12:36] <knome> ;)
[12:36] <bluesabre> k
[12:36] <flocculant> bluesabre: I don't have one of those - only ubuntu members do ;)
[12:37] <bluesabre> flocculant: gotcha
[12:38] <knome> ok, another thing
[12:38] <knome> the reason why we are seeing those nice titles is because i've set "use first heading as title" on
[12:38] <knome> basically, it does what it says it does
[12:38] <knome> but i'm also hiding all <h5> elements
[12:38] <knome> so you can do == Any title ==
[12:38] <knome> and it doesn't show up in the page
[12:39] <knome> but it's used as the title if it's the first heading
[18:12] <flocculant> knome: new qa page for x.org drafted at https://xubuntu.org/?p=3670&preview=true
[18:32] <knome> flocculant, will look today, ta
[18:38] <flocculant> knome: yep - no mad rush - and I'm not too concerned what changes you make as long as you don't add urls, once you're ok just change it :)
[18:38] <knome> ok, will do
[19:24] <knome> flocculant, reviewed, changed some formatting (mostly adding <strong> and removed some low-level headings) and pushed to production
[19:25] <knome> looks good now, great work!
[19:47] <flocculant> knome: cheers
[19:48] <flocculant> I'll mail the list and let those interested in qa know about the docs page soon :)
[20:05] <akxwi-dave> ooohh more emails to read.. :-)
[20:11] <knome> flocculant, i haven't copied the qa stuff from the old ubuntu wiki over to the xubuntu wiki yet, but i will be doing that soon
[20:12] <knome> flocculant, fwiw, there are few syntax differences between moinmoin and dokuwiki, but they are minor once converted
[20:13] <knome> flocculant, i've tried to remove stuff we don't need from http://wiki.xubuntu.org/wiki/syntax thus making it easier to read
[20:17] <flocculant> ack
[20:17] <flocculant> hey akxwi-dave didn't know you were about - http://docs.xubuntu.org/contributors/qa-team.html is live now, the x.org/cont/qa stuff is basic with a pointer to the new stuff
[20:19] <flocculant> knome: re the new wiki - I assume we're not using that for 'everything' eg roadmap specs ? and the like
[20:20] <flocculant> talking of the like - what are we actually going to do about 'team can do posts about what they use instead of gmb' ?
[20:20] <knome> flocculant, for the first question, the goal is to use the new wiki for everything, but i'm not sure if we will move all the archive over yet
[20:20] <flocculant> mmm
[20:20] <knome> flocculant, for the latter, i'll need to set that up, and as long as i have time, we'll do that
[20:21] <flocculant> not completely sold on that then
[20:21] <knome> oh?
[20:21] <akxwi-dave> hi flocculant , that looks really nice
[20:21] <flocculant> knome: yea - things that are effectively ephemeral like roadmap - I'd say current loc is best
[20:22] <knome> well practically we don't HAVE a roadmap for xenial in the wiki
[20:22] <knome> it's just the tracker now
[20:22] <flocculant> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/W/DefaultMediaPlayer for instance
[20:23] <flocculant> 'our' wiki is the wrong place imo - let canonical hold dead stuff :)
[20:23] <knome> well as i said, i don't know about moving the archive
[20:23] <flocculant> inxi - that's be better on our wiki than the x.org
[20:23] <knome> what's the difference between our wiki and x.org? ;)
[20:23] <flocculant> knome: yea ... but y,z , 1,2,3 cycle ...
[20:24]  * knome shrugs
[20:24] <knome> the new wiki is FASTER
[20:24] <flocculant> knome: oh my ...
[20:24] <knome> and we have total control over it
[20:24] <flocculant> right
[20:24] <knome> literally
[20:24] <knome> no canonical involced
[20:24] <knome> *involved
[20:24] <knome> so...
[20:24] <knome> yeah
[20:24] <flocculant> just let me run for a moment ;)
[20:24] <knome> there are many benefits for using it, even for temporary/short-lived stuff
[20:25] <flocculant> I don't see that
[20:25] <knome> see what? :D
[20:25] <flocculant> what is the benefit in having something like a spec lying dead on our wiki for years?
[20:25] <knome> you can ask pleia2 about why archiving is important
[20:25] <flocculant> I see a benefit in having things like the x.org inxi on our wiki
[20:26] <flocculant> oh nvm - whatever
[20:26] <knome> i mean, i don't mind archiving myself
[20:26] <knome> sometimes i think it's more useful to just delete
[20:26] <knome> but specs that actually happened are useful IMO at least
[20:26] <flocculant> really - not interested that much - just think that we should keep our wiki for useful things
[20:26] <knome> specs that were just babble... not so much
[20:27] <flocculant> being able to see what happened 10 years ago - really who cares ?
[20:27] <knome> it serves as a refresher as to why things were done how they were
[20:27] <knome> that might be useful when we are figuring out something else later
[20:27] <flocculant> yea - see half a dozen lines up
[20:28] <knome> sure, some specs are more useful than others...
[20:28] <knome> but seriously, pleia2 is the archiving zealot here;)
[20:37] <flocculant> yea I understand
[20:38] <knome> our irc channel is logged, our mailing list is logged
[20:38] <knome> why the specifications wouldn't?
[20:38] <flocculant> I just think that just because we CAN do something with OUR wiki doesn't mean we should - there is a perfectly useful archiving medium available - the current wiki
[20:38] <flocculant> oh I give up
[20:38] <flocculant> don't care enough to worry - hardly likely to be something I bother with anyway
[20:38] <knome> what's the difference if we create the new spec in the new or old wiki?
[20:39] <knome> it's more work to remove it than to leave it
[20:39] <knome> and there's no damage being done if it's available even if nobody uses it
[20:39] <flocculant> why fill our one up wioth dead stuff? what do we gain by changing it?
[20:39] <knome> i said i don't know about existing stuff
[20:40] <knome> but new stuff is different
[20:40] <flocculant> no it isn't
[20:40] <knome> if we write new specs, then it makes sense to have them in the same place as all other information
[20:40] <knome> or do you rather use 6 tools than one?
[20:40] <flocculant> *shrug* you and pleia2 decide what we should do
[20:41] <knome> my shoulder hurts from shrugging so i won't shrug
[20:41] <flocculant> make sure the xpl listens to all sides of the argument before he decides though please
[20:42] <knome> ochosi, ping ^, if you want to bother reading the backlog
[20:42] <flocculant> I'll be back tomorrow anyway
[20:42] <knome> have a nice evening :)
[20:58] <pleia2> I like history, it's nice to be able to point new people to why and when we made a decision long ago
[20:58] <pleia2> and I don't see what it hurts to keep things around
[21:00] <pleia2> also nice to point to people that we've had a discussion before (like the DefaultMediaPlayer), good historical information'
[21:01] <pleia2> maybe not current, but when someone comes along and says "you should totally use $x" we can look back at why we didn't before, and if it has the features we need now
[21:05] <ochosi> evening all
[21:06] <ochosi> humm, so much backlog
[21:06] <ochosi> well anyway, starting to read..
[21:10] <ochosi> alright, so whenever one of you guys is around, feel free to ping me
[21:10] <ochosi> personally i think it's a good thing to port over the things we consider valuable from the old wiki, but yeah, i wouldn't bother removing it from there
[21:11] <ochosi> apart from having a big link on the frontpage of the old wiki maybe, saying that this is just "a fridge" or something and that the cool kids are someplace else now
[21:14] <ochosi> humm, gotta admit that it sucks a bit that our shimmer-themes package which was once a source for various artwork will likely be cut down to just greybird in 16.04...
[21:14] <ochosi> but yeah, gtk theme maintenance wears people out
[21:16] <flocculant> pleia2: I've no problem with keeping things about - but given that things like specs are ephemeral or even completely ignored during a cycle - why fill up a clean pristine wiki that we can use to give people real and useful information with it - why not just carry on putting that stuff on canonical's servers
[21:17] <flocculant> that's the main issue imo - other than that - it's wiki, I have no real interest, I hate writing that stuff in various arcane syntax's :)
[21:17] <pleia2> flocculant: I don't really care where it's kept, as long as we don't delete it forever
[21:18] <flocculant> pleia2: welcome to the impending ice age where no-one cares about that stuff :p
[21:18] <pleia2> flocculant: but it is worth noting, I don't share your opinion about the problem with filling up a clean pristine wiki, what exactly are we "filling up"? We have plenty of space, etc etc
[21:18] <flocculant> personally if we've got a server we can use - an irc bouncer that team can use would be more useful imo :)
[21:19] <pleia2> it really is helpful for new contributors to have access to history, I know I like it when I join a project, helps me feel like I can figure out things myself without asking why we do everything all the time
[21:19] <pleia2> I don't really see how irc bouncers and wikis impact each other
[21:20] <flocculant> pleia2: well  - personally I wouldn't be that worried about something that happened 20 years ago being in one place, if it's on the net somewhere it's on the net
[21:20] <pleia2> we're not talking 20 years :) so far maybe 5
[21:20] <flocculant> and unless there's going to be some sort of usable index on 'our' wiki - in time it will be as much a pita as the ubuntu ones
[21:20] <pleia2> that wiki link you shared earlier was only a few months old
[21:21] <flocculant> pleia2: yea ofc - because it was just an example, forget the date of it - why would anyone want to know in 10 years that in 6 months of 1 year people thought about doing something - then didn't ?
[21:21] <flocculant> history is great - but pointless history is pointless :)
[21:22] <ochosi> pleia2: +1
[21:22] <pleia2> flocculant: when we hit 10 years, we can talk about this again :)
[21:22] <flocculant> yea
[21:22] <flocculant> of course
[21:22] <ochosi> i think this is pretty much a non-issue
[21:23] <flocculant> ochosi: to a certain extent it is yes
[21:23] <ochosi> first of all it's awesome that we have our own wiki and that it is under our control (finally). so go us! (or knome and pleia2)
[21:23] <flocculant> but can anyone anywhere at anytime write a spec for Xubuntu - or do they have to come and ask if they can?
[21:24] <ochosi> wait, that seems like a different subject
[21:24] <flocculant> ochosi: yea - totally agree, love that we have our space
[21:24] <ochosi> and yes, ofc everyone can write specs, if they want to share those with us they *should* come here and talk about it
[21:24] <flocculant> not really - just an extrapolation of where we are
[21:24] <ochosi> that was always the same
[21:25] <flocculant> ochosi: no - anyone can edit an ubuntu wiki page if they have sso or whatver
[21:25] <ochosi> yeah, if they have sso, fine
[21:25] <flocculant> doesn't mean we take any notice of it
[21:25] <ochosi> still, if they don't talk to us and just add a page/spec to the wiki that's not very useful
[21:25] <flocculant> ok
[21:26] <flocculant> whatever, nvm
[21:26] <ochosi> so personally i don't think that dramatically increases the threshold of contributing (if that's what you're aiming at)
[21:26] <flocculant> someone coming here cap in hand saying can I do this isn't a dramtic increase?
[21:26] <flocculant> I think you'll find that it is ;)
[21:26] <flocculant> but whatever
[21:27] <flocculant> really back tomorrow :)
[21:27] <knome> anybody can still come and write a spec in the xubuntu wiki
[21:27] <ochosi> ok, ttyl
[21:27] <knome> only some pages are blocked from non-team "contributions"
[21:27] <knome> and of course i want to make sure we have a useful index for the wiki
[21:28] <knome> http://wiki.xubuntu.org/?do=index is already quite good, even if no "extra work" was done to make it happen
[21:28] <knome> ochosi, i see you don't have an account yet
[21:29] <ochosi> yeah, just came in a few mins ago ;)
[21:29] <ochosi> but that was on my agenda for tonight
[21:29] <knome> ochosi, maybe you should create one so i could appoint you to the @team team
[21:29] <knome> or you can tell which email you like and i can do that for you
[21:29] <ochosi> done
[21:30] <ochosi> nono, you're already doing a lot with this web setup
[21:30] <ochosi> really kudos on that!
[21:30] <knome> ok, you're now in the @team team
[21:30]  * knome bows
[21:30] <knome> and np
[21:30] <knome> i want this myself too...
[21:30] <knome> so a short recap:
[21:30] <ochosi> cool cool
[21:30] <knome> there is a team: namespace
[21:30] <knome> that is only readable by the team
[21:31] <knome> i don't know what we're using it for (yet), but i'm sure there is need at some point, so i've went ahead and set it up already
[21:31] <knome> the start page and the contact page are also protected from non-team member edits
[21:32] <knome> also, i don't mind maintainin the wiki and making sure the launch is smooth, but at some point, we might want somebody else to be an admin as well - if i'm away for whatever reason etc.
[21:33] <ochosi> sure, that all makes perfect sense
[21:33] <knome> my knee jerk reaction is bluesabre, because he's administrating other dokuwiki wikis and knows a bit or two about the admin
[21:33] <ochosi> yeah
[21:33] <knome> but it's a simple web UI trigger, so we don't need to do that now
[21:33] <ochosi> if he's fine with it, i'm fine with it
[21:34] <knome> or in other words it doesn't require careful planning
[21:34] <knome> just do it when we've decided
[21:34] <ochosi> fwiw, that thunar/gvfs rename bug/crash doesn't seem to be there in xenial (just tested)
[21:34] <knome> ok, nice
[21:34] <knome> what about the mousepad one?
[21:34] <ochosi> hmm, which one was that?
[21:34] <knome> it crashes randomly
[21:35] <knome> i think it's usually related to moving tabs from another window to other
[21:35] <ochosi> aha
[21:35] <ochosi> hadn't noticed
[21:35] <knome> but i'm not completely sure because i haven't logged it too much
[21:35] <ochosi> doesn't sound like something i can reproduce quickly and reliably
[21:35] <ochosi> i'll focus on other stuff for starters
[21:35] <knome> one thing it also could have to do with is that i often have many files over sshfs open
[21:36] <ochosi> well, i noticed that having around 10+ mousepad instances open makes it crash
[21:36] <ochosi> (in wily)
[21:36] <knome> yeah...
[21:36] <knome> today i had a weird crash
[21:36] <knome> apparently mousepad started writing to HDD a lot
[21:36] <knome> because it made a lot of noise
[21:36] <knome> then it crashed
[21:36] <ochosi> but yeah, for the moment i'd prefer to focus on greybird bugs
[21:37] <knome> but not like disappeared, i had the usual xfce dialog saying it's not responding
[21:37] <ochosi> cause mousepad can be fixed by somebody else, but i presume greybird will remain my responsibility
[21:37] <knome> usually the windows just disappear
[21:37] <knome> ala thunar
[21:37] <knome> yeah, probably so
[21:37] <knome> i'll try to get some more useful information out of the bug before i whine about it the next time
[21:37] <knome> now,
[21:37] <knome> bbiab/bbl
[21:50] <flocculant> knome: I rarely have more than a couple of 'pad's or 'pad and tabs at one time - I'll see if I can reproduce with more
[21:52] <ochosi> flocculant: since you're one of the folks using xenial the most, please let me know when you see visual oddities
[21:52] <ochosi> i gotta fix up greybird for it
[21:52] <flocculant> knome pleia2 - and just for the record, and history, I do appreciate the new stuff we have going :)
[21:52] <ochosi> just started with a first commit fixing the sidebars in the open file dialog (e.g. in evince)
[21:54] <flocculant> ochosi: yep - I know, only oddity I know of right now is an issue with icon/icon+text/text in something
[21:54] <ochosi> a-ha?
[21:54] <flocculant> and if people use ubuntu fonts it all goes wrong
[21:54] <ochosi> got an example?
[21:54] <ochosi> oh
[21:54] <ochosi> not sure that is greybird's fault
[21:54] <ochosi> but yeah, still let me know
[21:54] <flocculant> hang on - bug reported on tracker
[21:55] <flocculant> font thing is a font thing - not us
[21:55] <flocculant> bug 1510540
[21:56] <flocculant> the mousepad search higlight one is really a pain for someone not young like you lot :D
[21:57] <flocculant> ochosi: generally I'm not seeing anything stand out eww theme wise, but I'm also trying to get fonts etc to look nice with a new monitor - not easy seemingly
[21:57] <ochosi> ok, i'll take a look at that one
[21:58] <ochosi> mousepad search highlight is knome's department (or actually last i remember it was mousepad not really applying all highlight classes or something)
[21:58] <flocculant> ochosi: let me just double check that after a bunch of updates
[21:58] <flocculant> ochosi: yea - but arty so I told you :)
[21:58] <ochosi> example of a visual glitch:
[21:59] <ochosi> catfish's location selector combobox has a double border
[21:59] <ochosi> and i have no clue as to why
[21:59] <flocculant> rounded in square ?
[22:00] <knome> mousepad doesn't "get" all syntax
[22:00] <knome> and i still have the highlight issue on my TODO
[22:01] <flocculant> knome: yep - pretty important imo, people with older hardware more likely to be older with old eyes :)
[22:01] <knome> not disagreeing with that
[22:03] <flocculant> :)
[22:03] <flocculant> ochosi: http://i.imgur.com/f50lRX6.png and http://i.imgur.com/0pYMVOS.png
[22:04] <flocculant> ochosi: and re numix, if no-one can maintain that, then imo we should drop it for lts
[22:05] <knome> text under icons looks okay to me
[22:05] <flocculant> just so people know I do actually check the backlog in here :D
[22:05] <knome> the dialog padding doesn't :X
[22:05] <ochosi> yeah, that dialog is terrible
[22:06] <flocculant> text under is fine - text next is completely transparent ...
[22:06] <ochosi> flocculant: yeah, i'd give satya some time, but ultimately we might have to drop it
[22:06] <ochosi> re: text next, doesn't it work in all apps?
[22:06] <ochosi> maybe some just don't implement toolbars correctly/fully
[22:06] <flocculant> knome: don't forget I'm fighting fonts and stuff with this new monitor for some reason :(
[22:06] <knome> oh right, text next
[22:06] <knome> :D
[22:06] <knome> flocculant, i didn't forget, i didn't know you were
[22:07] <flocculant> knome: only because you didn't read the backlog :p
[22:08] <knome> yes....
[22:08] <flocculant> ochosi: not sure - it took a while to find some 'app' that affected anyway - globaltime prefs was the first one I found :D
[22:09] <flocculant> ochosi: and the double border I'm sure I saw mentioned in -desktop so just assumed that would get done
[22:11] <flocculant> knome: flocculant> ochosi: generally I'm not seeing anything stand out eww theme wise, but I'm also trying to get fonts etc to look nice with a new monitor - not easy seemingly
[22:11] <flocculant> that :)
[22:11] <ochosi> flocculant: debugged toolbar issue and commented
[22:11] <ochosi> guess that is not a bug, so nothing to worry about for us there
[22:12] <flocculant> ochosi: cool :)
[22:12] <flocculant> marked it as such then
[22:12] <ochosi> yup, also i guess nobody cared enough before you came along ;)
[22:12] <ochosi> i for one never tried that setting
[22:13] <flocculant> well it was actually akxwi found it :)
[22:13] <flocculant> not me - totally missed it twice
[22:13] <ochosi> ok, so i pushed some fixes to greybird for xenial, so if you test please use the shimmer daily PPA or ask bluesabre to update the pkg ;)
[22:13] <ochosi> i don't see any other obvious glitches in our default apps for now
[22:13] <ochosi> but i'll keep looking
[22:14] <flocculant> knome pleia2 - can you perhaps bump the irc package session media things a bit for us
[22:14] <flocculant> ochosi: I've been running with the 3 main ppa's since November or so
[22:14] <flocculant> but not the best person to notice either ;)
[22:15] <ochosi> wow, not cool: http://i.imgur.com/z7y2die.png
[22:15] <ochosi> (look at the username with focus)
[22:15] <ochosi> flocculant: that's ok
[22:15] <flocculant> seems that those sessions get better responses from the social stuff
[22:16] <flocculant> ochosi: might just be vbox issue, hardware doesn't look like that
[22:16] <flocculant> nope I lied - should have looked first, didn't see that - never change user
[22:17] <knome> flocculant, just redo essentially the same, or is there something new?
[22:17] <flocculant> same on hardware
[22:17] <knome> flocculant, re: irc session...
[22:17] <flocculant> that's confused me :)
[22:18] <knome> flocculant, you asekd social media bump for irc session; do you want to repeat the same message or do you have something else to say?
[22:18] <ochosi> flocculant: no worries, fixed it already
[22:19] <ochosi> wow, indicator-sound looks really boring without any apps there
[22:19] <knome> flocculant, the earlier message being https://twitter.com/Xubuntu/status/679446515472052224
[22:19] <flocculant> knome: oh sorry, nothing new - still not got a date set
[22:19] <knome> oki
[22:20] <ochosi> bluesabre: we should add parole to indicator-sound by default, since that's our only *media* player now (currently it's empty, used to be gmusicbrowser)
[22:20] <flocculant> currently we have 'some team' and 4 people with 2 time sets
[22:20] <flocculant> knome: ^^
[22:20] <flocculant> ochosi: so should we move to the xfce one instead ?
[22:21] <flocculant> ochosi: on the other hand - once people add a media tool, it populates
[22:21] <ochosi> i think the xfce plugin isn't really ready yet
[22:21] <flocculant> mine has clementine, banshee,r'box, exaile and gmb in it
[22:21] <ochosi> although it works ok, but it's not yet a full replacement
[22:22] <ochosi> as long as indicator-sound works and doesn't break, i'd keep it for nw
[22:22] <flocculant> ochosi: ok - not had too many issues here when I used it
[22:22] <flocculant> ochosi: probably for the best for 16.04 I guess :)
[22:23] <knome> flocculant, https://twitter.com/Xubuntu/status/685587460454232064
[22:23] <flocculant> \o/
[22:23] <flocculant> that's just about perfect :)
[22:23] <knome> good
[22:23] <ochosi> bluesabre: i guess it's all about enabling parole's MPRIS2 plugin by default (i'd +1 that). for now i'll just drop gmb from the interested players...
[22:26] <ochosi> bluesabre: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/xubuntu-default-settings/trunk/revision/587
[22:30] <flocculant> ochosi: fixed the odd login username focus thing?
[22:30] <ochosi> bluesabre: ok, and another x-d-s commit enabling the MPRIS2 plugin (i hope this works on all archs, the property seems fairly specific...)
[22:30] <ochosi> flocculant: sure sure
[22:31] <ochosi> long time ago already
[22:31] <ochosi> approx 1 min after i discovered it ;)
[22:31] <flocculant> ha ha ha
[22:31] <ochosi> alright, i think i fixed enough bugs for tonight
[22:31] <ochosi> strolling off to the couch to watch some tv
[22:31] <ochosi> if you discover other issues lemme know
[22:31] <knome> lol
[22:31] <knome> night
[22:31] <flocculant> ochosi: what fixed in? I'll look for the thing dropping here?
[22:32] <flocculant> yep - night night ochosi :)
[22:32] <ochosi> i just pushed some fixes to greybird, so you'll see it on the next daily build ;)
[22:32]  * flocculant will just watch for random arty package updates :p
[22:33] <ochosi> i'll prolly return in an hour or so to see whether bluesabre is around
[22:33] <ochosi> and answers at least half of my random pings
[22:33] <flocculant> ochosi: yea - guessed, will ping if I see something odd now I know it's there as an issue  :)
[22:34] <ochosi> ok cool
[22:34] <ochosi> bluesabre: meh, for some reason those buttons in xfpanel-switch's toolbar are not linked, hence they look awful :/
[22:36] <ochosi> bluesabre: plus the app name in alt-tab says "xfpanel switch py"
[22:36] <ochosi> booh
[22:37] <flocculant> ochosi: so didn't think about it ^^, but if text next to icon is not completely supported - the test asks people to look, so should we ditch that bit of the test?
[22:37] <flocculant> just to forestall pointless bug reports
[22:37] <ochosi> yes
[22:37] <ochosi> we should
[22:38] <ochosi> doesn't make sense to test that
[22:39] <bluesabre> ochosi: they should be linked
[22:39] <bluesabre> ochosi: the other issue, I can confirm
[22:40] <bluesabre> still catching up on backlog
[22:40] <flocculant> bluesabre: hf :p
[22:40] <ochosi> bluesabre: crap, just noticed this is another greybird 3.18 issue
[22:40] <flocculant> ochosi: ok - report that now so I catch it later
[22:42] <ochosi> bluesabre: same problem in menulibre
[22:42] <bluesabre> with the unlinked or alt-tab?
[22:43] <ochosi> unlinked
[22:43] <ochosi> alt-tab is definitely a code issue
[22:43] <ochosi> app name isn't set in the appp
[22:43] <bluesabre> yeah
[22:43] <ochosi> menulibre does it right
[22:44] <bluesabre> catfish should too, its a dumb property that really should be set automatically, but catfish and menulibre have the code for that
[22:44] <ochosi> yup
[22:44] <ochosi> should be a one-liner
[22:44] <bluesabre> mpris I'd +1
[22:45] <flocculant> can I do that as well :)
[22:45] <flocculant> mpris I'd +1
[22:45] <ochosi> sure sure :)
[22:45] <bluesabre> go for it
[22:45] <bluesabre> :D
[22:45] <flocculant> :)
[22:45] <ochosi> i already pushed it, but thanks for the support ;)
[22:45] <bluesabre> oh goodie
[22:45] <ochosi> so yeah, greybird needs a pkg update and x-d-s does too
[22:46] <ochosi> although i still need to fix those darn toolbar buttons
[22:46] <bluesabre> I'm going to work on a number of small tasks tonight and this weekend, trying to fix bugs here and there
[22:46] <ochosi> nice
[22:46] <bluesabre> so, xfpm, greybird, x-d-s package updates
[22:46] <bluesabre> what else?
[22:46] <ochosi> i had a quiet hour too tonight to get stuff done
[22:46] <ochosi> well, the icon updates are not very crucial i suppose
[22:47] <ochosi> but they should be uploaded at some point with a x-artwork package
[22:47] <flocculant> ochosi: I saw you had but I thought I would support you anyway :)
[22:47] <bluesabre> expecting to do any more of those soon?  might be good to get us up to speed this cycle
[22:47] <bluesabre> all sorts of package updates this weekend in that regard
[22:47] <ochosi> flocculant: yup, thanks :)
[22:47] <flocculant> :)
[22:47] <ochosi> bluesabre: yeah, not sure what else we need
[22:48] <flocculant> ochosi bluesabre - so while we are all here, nix a2 and wait for b1 ?
[22:48] <Unit193> Uhh, really bluesabre?
[22:48] <bluesabre> hey Unit193
[22:48] <bluesabre> huh?
[22:49] <Unit193> <property name="plugins" type="string" value="/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/parole-0/parole-mpris2.so"/>  ?
[22:49] <ochosi> bluesabre: there are a few more icons to fix yeah, and i wanted to push the distroo specific stuff to a separate branch, not sure when i get to that
[22:49] <bluesabre> flocculant: may as well
[22:49] <ochosi> Unit193: yeah, that's what i meant before
[22:49] <bluesabre> Unit193: ah, yes, that won't work
[22:49] <Unit193> Oooh, Simon is drunk.
[22:49] <ochosi> not really
[22:50] <flocculant> bluesabre: ack then - unless something changes in the near future - all it takes is a mail in time to -release list
[22:50] <bluesabre> flocculant: we've had some good testing so far (right?) and plenty of bug reports, so I think skipping a2 should be good and we can work hard for b1
[22:50] <Unit193> (Kidding, kidding.)  Usually it looks like the format used is 'parole-mpris2', and the one used of course won't work on anything apart from Amd64.
[22:51] <bluesabre> a2 is jan 28, b1 is feb 25
[22:51] <flocculant> bluesabre: I *think* so - all I can see is what I have done and tracker reports, and I do try and check bugs out too
[22:51] <flocculant> but pretty much,
[22:51] <flocculant> as wily is xenial
[22:52] <bluesabre> with plenty of gtk bugs
[22:52] <flocculant> mmm
[22:53] <bluesabre> er, xenial is wily with plenty of gtk bugs
[22:53] <flocculant> I think we should use qt
[22:53] <flocculant> can we have clementine now?
[22:53] <flocculant> :D
[22:53] <bluesabre> i think you're thinking of qubuntu
[22:53] <flocculant> bluesabre ha ha ha
[22:54] <bluesabre> I'd say lubuntu... but lxqt is still not on the map
[22:54] <bluesabre> :)
[22:54] <flocculant> no don't say that
[22:55] <bluesabre> ;)
[23:04] <ochosi> bluesabre: oh man, that fix for the linked buttons won't be much fun
[23:16] <ochosi> ok, pushed the parole mpris plugin fix fix
[23:48] <ochosi> meh, so the linked buttons in inline-toolbars are broken in light-themes as well (as always, only adwaita works)
[23:49] <flocculant> so
[23:49] <flocculant> we should just remove numix and adwaita and then go for a dose of hope :)
[23:50] <flocculant> or love
[23:51] <ochosi> yeah i guess
[23:51] <flocculant> ochosi: see the trouble is I'll not see anything arty until you say 'what about that?' then it's just a house of cards :)
[23:51] <ochosi> well actually this means i will have to rebase greybird on adwaita for >16.04
[23:51] <flocculant> :(
[23:52] <ochosi> lots and lotsa work considering xfce won't be gtk3 by then
[23:52] <flocculant> rebasing is just pita I assume, cos a bunch of versions
[23:52] <flocculant> yea - what I assumed
[23:52] <ochosi> well, it basically means i'll have to start from scratch
[23:53] <ochosi> cause it's not just rebasing, but CSS -> SASS
[23:53] <flocculant> oh that's really crud
[23:53] <ochosi> anyhow, enough rambling
[23:53] <ochosi> night y'all, i need some sleep
[23:53] <flocculant> for april?
[23:53] <ochosi> that one i don't get
[23:54] <flocculant> for 16.04 then?
[23:54] <flocculant> oh nvm >16.04 :)
[23:54] <flocculant> sleep well ochosi :)
[23:55] <ochosi> thanks, night!
[23:55] <flocculant> :)


[08:45] <mzanetti> pstolowski, hey ho
[08:45] <pstolowski> mzanetti, hi!
[08:46] <mzanetti> pstolowski, before our holidays, alecu said something that you were reworking some bits in the scopes middleware
[08:46] <mzanetti> pstolowski, to allow updating single entries, or add/remove stuff without doing a full refresh
[08:46] <mzanetti> did I understand that correctly?
[08:48] <pstolowski> mzanetti, yes. i've a rotting branch to do that for results (for in-card +1 actions that were paused for a while); i've fresh branch that does that for preview widgets - it's MP'ed
[08:49] <mzanetti> pstolowski, cool. just saw a mail on the ubuntu-phone list. people asking if we could update the calendar/clock icons to reflect current date/time
[08:49] <mzanetti> wondering what else is missing
[08:49] <pstolowski> mzanetti, what calendar/clock icons?
[08:49] <mzanetti> in the apps scope
[08:50] <pstolowski> mzanetti, what i implemented is meant for updates triggered by user activity
[08:51] <pstolowski> mzanetti, e.g. user hits a button in the preview, scope does something and updates that button or another widget in the preview
[08:51] <pstolowski> mzanetti, or user taps a small +1 button in the card (result), and we update this result
[08:52] <pstolowski> mzanetti, for continuous updates we would need some sort of backend that triggers them
[08:54] <mzanetti> yeah...
[08:54] <mzanetti> pstolowski, can we then also remove a single app when uninstalling (without refreshing the whole scope)?
[08:55] <pstolowski> mzanetti, nope, the protocol for this enhancement allows updates only. should be relatively easy to support delete, but is it worth it?
[08:56] <mzanetti> pstolowski, definitely... also for adding
[08:56] <mzanetti> the fact that the full scope refreshes all the time is hugely annoying
[08:57] <pstolowski> mzanetti, i think adding is a bit tricky for scope author. he would need to specify where to insert the new item
[08:57] <mzanetti> we should try to diff the content as much as possible and only do full refreshes when there's really no other way out
[08:58] <pstolowski> mzanetti, you're right.. update/add should be handled by model diffs
[08:58] <pstolowski> mzanetti, sorry - del/add
[08:59] <pstolowski> mzanetti, update too though. the update mechanism i implemented is for very specific use case (actions), not for general search
[12:35] <ChrisTownsend> greyback_: Hey!  Is qtmir-desktop a part of the gcc5 transition?  I ask because the Unity 8 desktop is crashing when trying to start with the following: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/12107481/
[12:35] <ChrisTownsend> greyback_: And qtmir-desktop looks like the only package that has not been updated.
[12:55] <yecril71pl> Nautilus caches the user name that it displays in Permissions.
[12:56] <yecril71pl> The cache is not cleared after I have deleted the user.
[15:20] <Saviq> andyrock, hey, do you remember if there's a bug filed about changing screens when suspended? very often when I resume after having connected my external screen, the lockscreen seems to get stuck mid-way when applying the change and I can't unlock
[15:20] <Saviq> it doesn't crash, but it deadlocks
[15:27] <ChrisTownsend> greyback_: I updated that bug with the requested info:)
[15:27] <greyback_> ChrisTownsend: thanks
[15:28] <ChrisTownsend> greyback_: Sure and thank you
[15:42] <andyrock> Saviq: please fill a bug
[15:43] <Saviq> andyrock, think SIGABRTing it in that case might get you anything useful?
[15:43] <Saviq> through apport?
[15:44] <andyrock> nope
[15:52] <ChrisTownsend> greyback_: I'm pretty sure qtmir needs rebuilding due to the recent gcc5 rebuild for Mir.
[15:53] <greyback_> ChrisTownsend: I thought it was already done tho
[15:54] <ChrisTownsend> greyback_: This is what is on my system:
[15:54] <ChrisTownsend> $ dpkg -l | grep qtmir
[15:54] <ChrisTownsend> ii  qtdeclarative5-qtmir-plugin:amd64                    0.4.5+15.10.20150728-0ubuntu1                         amd64        Qt plugin for Unity specific Mir APIs
[15:54] <ChrisTownsend> ii  qtmir-desktop:amd64                                  0.4.5+15.10.20150728-0ubuntu1                         amd64        Qt platform abstraction (QPA) plugin for a Mir server (desktop)
[15:54] <ChrisTownsend> Old versions.  And I looked at wily-proposed and did not see any qtmir packages there, although I might have overlooked it.
[15:56] <greyback_> ChrisTownsend: I see a newer version of qtmir released in wily:  0.4.5+15.10.20150804.1-0ubuntu1
[15:56] <greyback_> https://launchpad.net/qtmir/+packages
[15:57] <greyback_> sure you've updated? Is something holding back qtmir update maybe?
[15:58] <ChrisTownsend> greyback_: wtf?  I updated a few hours ago.  I'll try it again right now.
[15:59] <ChrisTownsend> greyback_: Ok, still no update to it.  It must be something holding it back.  I wonder what though...
[15:59] <Saviq> andyrock, fyi: bug #1485662
[15:59] <greyback_> ChrisTownsend: you tried dist-upgrade?
[15:59] <ChrisTownsend> greyback_: Yep:)
[16:00] <greyback_> ChrisTownsend: apt install qtmir-desktop=0.4.5+15.10.20150804.1-0ubuntu1
[16:00] <ChrisTownsend> greyback_: It doesn't find that version.
[16:01] <greyback_> ChrisTownsend: well LP thinks there's a newer version available. Lemme try my wily box
[16:01] <ChrisTownsend> greyback_: Ok.
[16:02] <ChrisTownsend> greyback_: It's still stuck in the proposed pocket for some reason: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qtmir/0.4.5+15.10.20150804.1-0ubuntu1
[16:02] <greyback_> aha
[16:03] <ChrisTownsend> greyback_: I wonder what's keeping it there though?
[16:03] <greyback_> ChrisTownsend: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html#qtmir
[16:04] <greyback_> boottest fail
[16:04] <ChrisTownsend> greyback_: Great, so how it that get fixed/addressed?
[16:05] <andyrock> Saviq: maybe you can try to debug it using gdb
[16:05] <greyback_> ChrisTownsend: dunno, will have to poke train people
[16:06] <andyrock> just attach gdb to compiz
[16:06] <andyrock> then try to reproduce the bug
[16:06] <andyrock> and see what's going on more or less
[16:06] <greyback_> ChrisTownsend: if wily phone failing to boot, that'll hold qtmir up
[16:06] <andyrock> should be better than SIGABRTing compiz
[16:07] <ChrisTownsend> greyback_: Ok, thanks.  So you'll follow up on that>
[16:07] <ChrisTownsend> greyback_: If you haven't guessed already, I'm kind of needing a Unity 8 desktop session:)
[16:08] <greyback_> ChrisTownsend: sure, but I'm not really focused on wily these days
[16:08] <greyback_> I'll try get things moving there
[16:08] <ChrisTownsend> greyback_: Ok.  I guess Vivid+overlay is not affected by this.
[16:08] <greyback_> ChrisTownsend: correct
[16:09] <ChrisTownsend> greyback_: Ok.  The thing is, I need to test some ubuntu-app-launch changes in a silo that are going to be needed for Vivid+overlay.
[16:10] <ChrisTownsend> And the silo is wily based of course.
[16:10] <greyback_> ChrisTownsend: I imagine this will happen again & again! My solution: 2 machines :)
[16:11] <ChrisTownsend> greyback_: So any help you can give to get the wily qtmir unblocked would be great.
[16:11] <ChrisTownsend> greyback_: Thanks again for looking at this.
[17:00] <dandrader> mzanetti, what's Qt::Key_Backtab?
[17:00] <mzanetti> dandrader, shift+tab
[17:00] <dandrader> mzanetti, weird. is this documented anywhere?
[17:01] <dandrader> don't go!
[17:01] <mzanetti> why is that weird?
[17:02] <dandrader> mzanetti, I find it weird that a key is actually a key combination
[17:02] <mzanetti> dandrader, I think there have been typewriters with this key some 20 years ago :D
[17:03] <mzanetti> and some keyboards actually still print the icon for backtab
[17:03] <mzanetti> http://doc.qt.io/qt-5/qt.html#Key-enum
[17:03] <mzanetti> if you search for backtab in that page it is mentioned quite often (focus-reason etc)
[17:04] <davmor2> dandrader: alt+ ` is the key that flick between instances of applications just press the windows key and view the keyboard layout for documentation ;)
[17:06] <mzanetti> dandrader, also, if you watch "xev" while pressing keys, you'll notice that for instance "ctrl+tab" prints "Control_L and Tab"
[17:06] <mzanetti> dandrader, while pressing shift+tab prints "ISO_Left_Tab" instead of Tab
[17:06] <dandrader> mzanetti, interesting.
[18:54] <dandrader> mzanetti, slight change of channel
[18:54] <dandrader> mzanetti, do you think we should be fowarding key events to the app while you're on the desktop spread?
[18:54] <mzanetti> hmm... probably not...
[18:54] <dandrader> mzanetti, eg: tab key presses, arrow presses
[18:55] <mzanetti> dandrader, are they forwarded right now?
[18:55] <mzanetti> I don't think that makes sense
[18:55] <dandrader> mzanetti, yeah. doing a bigger clean up / refactoring in https://code.launchpad.net/~dandrader/unity8/removeForceActiveFocus/+merge/267020
[18:55] <dandrader> mzanetti, will poke you for a review once it's updated
[18:56] <mzanetti> dandrader, thanks a lot
[19:35] <dandrader> mzanetti, https://code.launchpad.net/~dandrader/unity8/removeForceActiveFocus/+merge/267020 should be good to go now. will give it final look tomorrow morning to make sure
[20:30] <kgunn> ted: hey i was just reading thru bug 1478853 again
[20:30] <kgunn> ted: is gerry correct in that we use "default kernel OOM killer"
[20:31] <ted> kgunn, I believe that it is the "android default" which is slightly different than "linux kernel default" bug generally yes.
[20:31] <ted> kgunn, I think that ogra had some tuning ideas for that though.
[20:32] <kgunn> ted: ok, i think gerry's question/statement isn't quite accurate then
[20:33] <ted> kgunn, So I think that we can make it better, but what we probably need is to look at finding someone to build our own OOM killer that understands our apps.
[20:33] <kgunn> :) sounds simple
[20:33] <ted> kgunn, As we move to systemd they'll be very much the same as systemd apps, so we might find friends there.
[20:33] <ted> kgunn, I'm sure they'll want the same thing.
[20:35] <ted> It isn't generally hard, it's just all heuristic based. So it'll never be perfect. Tests for the cases you care about and be happy :-)
[20:37] <greyback> well my source was https://lwn.net/Articles/317814/ which says android has a "lowmemory" driver. Since the usual oom knobs work, I assumed we weren't using lowmemory
[20:43] <ted> Wonder if it's different based on the different kernels as well.
[20:45] <ted> For instance krillin vs. arale is 3.4 vs. 3.10. Probably wildly different.
[20:45] <greyback> this immediate line of questioninng justifies my comments on the bug! We need somebody to understand this
[20:46] <greyback> I think rumour had it that ricmm or rsalveti was looking into the custom oom killer
[20:46] <greyback> but I do think something wrong with our current OOM killing technique
[20:47] <greyback> if I set something compiling on the device, when memory runs low, dash (foreground app) gets killed first! Why not my thing being compiled? Then unity8 gets killed. My compile continues
[20:48] <ted> Silly greyback phones are not for compiling ;-)
[20:48] <ted> That's because the thing being compiled is a 0
[20:48] <ted> If we want to worry about that we should really pull unity and others < 0
[20:49] <greyback> and we don't do that because?
[20:49] <ted> No reason. Apps on the command line haven't really been a use-case.
[20:49] <ted> But as we go for personal that could make more sense.
[20:50] <ted> Shift everything so that the focused app is 0
[21:02] <greyback> ted: so that means, if any background process (i.e. not in container) has a memory leak, apps & shell are the first to die
[21:04] <greyback> ted: it does appear that the android lowmemory oom killer is on the arale at least, I see it in /sys/module/lowmemorykiller
[21:05] <greyback> I wonder if that's "helping"
[21:11] <ted> greyback, It won't kill the shell as it is zero, it's that their memory sizes will be ranked the same. So if it leaked less memory than the size of the shell but was causing OOM killer to reach the shell could be killed. So it'd have to be a very specific leak. If they went crazy that process would get killed.
[21:12] <ted> greyback, I see the bug on arale, not sure if it is better or worse than on krillin.
[23:57] <a1fa> hello, is there a way to rotate the launcher to the bottom?