[07:03] <fgimenez> good morning
[07:14] <davidcalle> Morning o/
[09:09] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday, and happy Miniature Golf Day! 😃
[09:16]  * ogra_ puts
[10:12] <sergiusens> Chipaca, around for a review?
[10:17] <biezpal> Hello all. We've updated our Snappy Ubuntu to the latest stable and now our package version after installation is some random string (like IBQKIEHAHMYG) instead of 0.0.1 for example. Is it a new feature or bug? Where we can read about it?
[10:18] <sergiusens> biezpal, it is a feature; for sideloaded apps; in order to have an upgrade path when iterating during development
[10:21] <biezpal> sergiusens, how can we access data at this location without specifying version?
[10:22] <sergiusens> biezpal, using SNAP_APP_DATA_PATH and other env vars
[10:23] <sergiusens> biezpal, if you are not familiar with the env vars, maybe install hello-world and run hello-world.env
[10:24] <biezpal> sergiusens, and what if we have build-in paths in executables?
[10:24] <biezpal> some external soft which we cannot rewrite
[10:24] <biezpal> lxc for example
[10:34] <asac> biezpal: do you build lxc on your own? Otherwise I cannot see how it could work with anyway.
[10:35] <biezpal> asac, yes, we are rebuilding lxc
[10:38] <biezpal> we are using lxc as a virtualization provider in our own project
[10:40] <ogra_> mvo, sergiusens, any idea how we can tackle bug 1497582 ? looks tricky given dget is involved
[10:41] <ogra_> (kind of blocked me to pacckage up my IMAP server snap on the weekend
[10:41] <ogra_> )
[10:41] <sergiusens> ogra_, oh, I need to massage an MP form mvo
[10:41] <sergiusens> ogra_, and we aren't using dget anymore
[10:41] <ogra_> ah, we have a fix ?
[10:41] <ogra_> neato :)
[10:41] <sergiusens> ogra_, we are using python3-apt
[10:42] <ogra_> cool, yeah, that should resolve the dep
[10:42] <sergiusens> ogra_, yeah, I need to tinker it a bit since it has been targetting one of tedg's internal branches
[10:42] <sergiusens> ogra_, I'll wait for tedg to see if he started or not to work on this; if not I'll get to it :-)
[10:43] <ogra_> yeah, if sometihing is in the pipe i'm happy
[10:43] <ogra_> after doing the irceproxy yesterday and ll the wrangling with the config stuff i guess the mailserver will rather be a multi day effort anyway
[10:44] <ogra_> *all
[10:44] <biezpal> asac, https://github.com/lxc/lxd-pkg-ubuntu/blob/snappy/build
[10:44] <biezpal> we are using versioning in the similar way as in the lxd, but now it's impossible
[10:46] <ogra_> longsleep, congrats to the release !
[10:51] <asac> stgraber: heya see biezpal challenge above with lxc/lxd and requiring known, fixed path during package-as-snap time... anyway to make this relocatable?
[10:56] <mvo> sergiusens: I thought this was part of ted MP? I can create a fresh MP and fix the outstanding issues, sorry, was not aware that the ball was in my court :)
[10:56] <sergiusens> mvo, it is, but I want to streamline it into trunk directly as that MP might take a bit :-)
[10:56] <asac> biezpal: so the problem really is that we plan to not enforce that you put a unique version into the version: field... but we will rather assign versions during upload. this means we will somehow also allow that two snaps with same version can be installed on same disk, which makes it impossible to use that version
[10:56] <ogra_> i was surprised to see the virtual dep ... i thought the debian policy forbids such deps
[10:57] <ogra_> but looking deeper it seems it is wildely used in perl packages
[10:57] <sergiusens> ogra_, might be a dep for something that was removed from the archive?
[10:57] <sergiusens> ah, perl; always doing dirty things ;-)
[10:57] <ogra_> no, perl-base provides the virtual api package dep
[10:58] <ogra_> and packages using perl base seem to all depend on it
[10:58] <biezpal> asac, why don't you create "current" link as in the /apps directory?
[10:59] <ogra_> how would that help with non-modifyable paths ?
[10:59] <ogra_> (upstream paths i mean)
[10:59] <asac> biezpal: we currently dont create current link for the sideloaded app?
[10:59] <ogra_> asac, we dont create it for any *_DATA_* dirs
[10:59] <ogra_> only for the package dir itself
[10:59] <asac> ogra_: why is that?
[11:00] <ogra_> no idea :)
[11:00] <asac> feels like a bug to me
[11:00] <ogra_> i know we used to have that link in the beginning
[11:00] <biezpal> ogra_, if there will be "current" link we'd use it to access data
[11:00] <ogra_> and for some reason it was decided to not have it anymore
[11:00] <asac> i could see that apps shouldnt accidentially write in the wrong data dir, but confinement would protect us from that risk, no?
[11:00] <ogra_> biezpal, well, use the env vars for that
[11:00] <sergiusens> asac, ogra_ current link for data breaks security
[11:01] <mvo> sergiusens: makes sense, I will get to it after lunch
[11:01] <ogra_> ah, that was it
[11:01] <asac> ogra_: well, lots of software has build time arguments like https://github.com/lxc/lxd-pkg-ubuntu/blob/snappy/build
[11:01] <asac> think the less we ask folks to patch code the better :)
[11:01] <asac> mvo: thoughts on current link for data?
[11:01] <ogra_> asac, right, so we need to find a fix for that ... but seems "current" isnt the right solution
[11:01] <asac> ogra_: why?
[11:01] <ogra_> see what sergiusens said
[11:02] <asac> sergiusens: that feels odd
[11:02] <asac> jdstrand: tyhicks: how does current link for data break security? doesnt apparmor look at realpath to enforce confinement?
[11:03] <asac> sergiusens: are you sure? when did we talk about this?
[11:03] <sergiusens> mvo, maybe review my code instead and I can rebase ;-)
[11:03] <ogra_> asac, it was removed after IOM iirc
[11:03] <mvo> sergiusens: already done
[11:03] <sergiusens> mvo, oh goodie, thanks
[11:04] <asac> mvo: do you remember the current link discussion for data?
[11:05]  * sergiusens gets started with breakfast
[11:05] <ogra_> oh, thats a good idea
[11:05] <sergiusens> asac, I am not sure; but we also wanted all symlinks killed
[11:05] <asac> i really dont buy this... if a link allows to fake a path within a subtree, then folks can create links in their data directory to whatever place they want to hack on
[11:06] <asac> unless we dont allow creation of symlinks at all ... which would surely be a big problem :)
[11:07] <asac> guess lets wait for security friends to wake up
[11:08] <mvo> asac: not much of it unfortunately, I will read backlog after lunch.
[11:08] <biezpal> thanks for response, waiting for security friends :)
[11:10] <soffokl> btw, apparmor confined path like "/var/lib/apps/foo/*/run/state r," anyway
[11:10] <soffokl> s/confined/confine
[11:39] <longsleep> ogra_: thanks ! Now that i have a release with firmware, i encountered several wifi related systemd services failing. I was planning to add a bug for each of them - do you think that makes sense?
[11:39] <ogra_> yeah
[11:40] <longsleep> i think wifi was not much tested with snappy yet. It works fine though, just scary error messages on boot.
[11:46] <ogra_> yeah, we need to fix that
[12:09] <jdstrand> asac: apparmor will resolve symlinks so /var/lib/apps/foo/current -> /var/lib/apps/foo/1.0, an app using current would evaluate to /var/lib/apps/foo/1.0 when rules are applied
[12:10] <jdstrand> we use current for install directory, we should be able to use it for data dir
[12:10] <ogra_> jdstrand, why did we remove it then ?
[12:10] <jdstrand> I have no idea. I have always wondered why it wasn't there
[12:11] <ogra_> well, all i remember is that it was removed after some discussion at the IOM sprint
[12:11] <ogra_> we used to have it in the beginning
[12:12] <jdstrand> I think it should be carefully tested, because the data dir has a bind mount for /tmp, but otoh I can't think of a reason why it wouldn't work
[12:12] <ogra_> probably due to overlayfs plans ?
[12:12] <jdstrand> istr (vaguely) it having to do with rollbacks
[12:13] <jdstrand> like, something about it being confusing
[12:13] <jdstrand> any decisions for current and security based on overlayfs would have been premature
[12:14] <jdstrand> since overlayfs isn't ready to be used in this context
[12:14] <asac> jdstrand: how is progress on that?
[12:14] <jdstrand> (doesn't play well with LSMs in general)
[12:14] <asac> thats really the golden bullet for everything
[12:14] <jdstrand> asac: it is deprioritized
[12:14] <asac> by whom?
[12:14] <asac> upstream?
[12:14] <jdstrand> it is our of our control
[12:14] <asac> can we take control through investment?
[12:14] <ogra_> by kernel versions :)
[12:15] <jdstrand> idk
[12:15] <jdstrand> we'd need a kernel developer to engage with them on the problems they have with LSMs
[12:16] <jdstrand> we looked at it quite a bit, and we can pick it up again, but not while we have to focus on stacked namespacing (lxd)
[12:16] <jdstrand> (which is why it is deprioritized on our board)
[12:17] <jdstrand> to be clear, we plan to pick it up again, but not particularly soon
[12:17] <jdstrand> I don't think investment is an option now that I think about it
[12:17] <ogra_> well and if we hard-depend on it it will massively reduce the ability to use BSP kernels
[12:17] <jdstrand> the principle author is a redhat employee and in tight control
[12:18] <jdstrand> perhaps tyhicks has more background information
[12:20] <dholbach> mvo, can you take a look at https://code.launchpad.net/~dholbach/snapcraft/1497582/+merge/271801?
[12:21] <jdstrand> asac: reading our trello card, it is high priority but below namespace stacking. however, tyhicks said he might be able to reengage with upstream this month (september). based on sprint timing and identity (which is taking longer than expected), this is more likely next month
[12:21] <jdstrand> asac: so, I slightly misremembered (sorry). it is deprioritized for one engineer, reassigned to another where it is only slightly deprioritized
[12:22] <jdstrand> but, we still don't have control of upstream-- we'll be interacting with them and talking about what apparmor needs
[12:23] <jdstrand> I don't know how overlayfs solves 'current' though
[12:23] <asac> jdstrand: i thought there is no problem with current
[12:23] <asac> or is there?
[12:24] <jdstrand> I don't think there is. I'm just wondering how we got to overlayfs (golden bullet comment) after talking about current
[12:25] <ogra_> well, it would be good to do some forensics why current was removed in the first place
[12:25] <jdstrand> unrelated question-- are we copying the data dir for apps on app upgrades or do apps have to do it themselves?
[12:25] <ogra_> i thinkwe do
[12:26] <ogra_> at least it happens for me
[12:26] <ogra_> (i.e. configs under /var/lib/apps move forward)
[12:29] <sergiusens> mvo, I grabbed the work for apt and fixing, we indeed need manifest.txt in there or the downloaded package list is a bit to long
[12:39] <mvo> sergiusens: oh, ok. I had hoped that we can get away with the priority
[12:39] <mvo> sergiusens: if we need it, just revet the change that removes it
[12:39] <mvo> sergiusens: or let me fix it, as you want
[12:40] <sergiusens> mvo, I'll push a branch to ~snappy-dev if I can't around it
[12:41] <sergiusens> mvo, building the examples is getting tricky with this pacakge set brought in
[12:41] <mvo> sergiusens: push it now, I will pick it up
[12:43]  * Chipaca waves hello from a train
[12:48] <sergiusens> mvo, lp:~snappy-dev/snapcraft/more-apt
[12:48] <mvo> sergiusens: ta
[12:49] <mvo> sergiusens: how nice do you want this to be? we could (trivially) use geoip to select the country mirror for example
[12:50] <mvo> sergiusens: looks very nice otherwise
[12:51] <sergiusens> mvo, if it is not too much work, would be good :-) but then again, I'm not sure how to solve a broken archive issue, so maybe more into the future?
[12:51] <ogra_> just enfoce usage of a stable archive ;)
[12:51] <ogra_> LTS only or some such
[12:51] <sergiusens> mvo, if only that branch worked, the examples (webcam-webdm) fails terribly; python3 goes on a CPU roll doing 'writing dependency_links to config.egg-info/dependency_links.txt'
[12:52] <mvo> sergiusens: oh? give me a minute to check. releated to the python-apt changes you think?
[12:53] <sergiusens> mvo, yeah, I can roll back to triple check
[12:53] <sergiusens> but I'm pretty sure I built all the examples before this change
[12:54] <mvo> sergiusens: at what point does it explode for you? I am just running it now and its downloading stuff
[12:55] <sergiusens> mvo, on python3 setup.py install for the config part
[12:57] <mvo> sergiusens: not sure whats going on, but webcam-webui_1_amd64_.snap was created succesfully for me
[12:58] <sergiusens> mvo, oh, heh; I just cleaned up the python build stuff and trying again (remove 'build', 'dist' and egg stuff)
[12:58] <ogra_> mvo, hmm, we didnt have dailies since friday on 15.04 edge
[12:59] <sergiusens> mvo, if it works I'll propose the MP; and I was thinking of using trusy instead of vivid but not sure that would break anything, in any case, starting 16.04 we should stick to that
[13:01] <ogra_> mvo, oh, i guess we trashed cdimage, seems one of us didnt put the proper linking in place when renaming the dirs
[13:09] <sergiusens> mvo, it gets stuck on writing manifest file 'config.egg-info/SOURCES.txt', very cpu intensive
[13:10] <mvo> sergiusens: if you don't mind I will commit geoip support
[13:11] <mvo> ogra_: meh, that was probably me, sorry for that. are you fixing it or shall I do that?
[13:11] <ogra_> well, still trying to find out why i only got one single failure mail
[13:11] <ogra_> it should still have attempted a build every day since friday, but it didnt
[13:12] <mvo> ogra_: ok, just let me know when I shall look at anything (don't want to duplicate effort)
[13:12] <mvo> sergiusens: commited as r187, just uncommit if you think its not a good fit
[13:13] <sergiusens> mvo, no worries; I'm still battling with this python issue
[13:28] <tedg> Could we just check if the base system has a mirror set?
[13:29] <tedg> grep /etc/apt/sources.list
[13:29] <ogra_> hmm
[13:29] <ogra_> is snapcraft shell supposed to work ?
[13:30] <ogra_> (and if so, how ? since the staging area doesnt actually have a full chroot)
[13:30] <ogra_> seems it installed a lot of crap into my host when i ran apt-get install under it
[13:33] <ogra_> not really what i would expect when reading the help
[13:34] <tedg> I'd guess it just sets up the env and cwd
[13:34] <ogra_> well, it doesnt really "enter" the env though
[13:35] <ogra_> apt-get install foobar after snapcraft shell will just happily install foobar on your host
[13:35] <tedg> Hmm, yeah. I don't think we'll ever change that.
[13:36] <ogra_> running snapcraft shell changes my prompt to green, thats the only difference i see :)
[13:36] <tedg> We'd have to set up a lot more complex setup to get that to work.
[13:36] <ogra_> well, then we should hit that in the help or some such
[13:36] <tedg> We're running apt in custom setup, not changing the environment.
[13:36] <ogra_> *hint
[13:36] <tedg> Yeah
[13:36] <ogra_> i can imagine a lot of people trashing their host with that
[13:37] <ogra_> help cureently says: "shell               enter staging environment"
[13:37] <ogra_> which makews me think of a protected chroot or container or some such
[13:39] <sergiusens> ogra_, we can do like we do on the device ;-)
[13:39] <sergiusens> mvo, btw, I reverted all changes, to trunk and it works fine now
[13:39] <ogra_> "like we do on the device" ?
[13:39] <sergiusens> mvo, I'm going mad as the package list is the same :-P
[13:40] <mvo> sergiusens: hmmm
[13:48] <dholbach> asac, I was wondering if we should set up milestones in LP for snapcraft and start targeting bugs, so it'll be easier to figure out what's planned next...
[13:51] <sergiusens> dholbach, replicate trello then?
[13:52] <dholbach> sergiusens, are the most important snapcraft bugs in trello?
[13:52] <sergiusens> dholbach, yes
[13:52] <ogra_> there are no bugs in snapcraft, just hidden features :)
[13:52] <sergiusens> dholbach, I don't mind using lp, but it would be a pain to track in two locations
[13:53] <sergiusens> ogra_, it is still unreleased ;-)
[13:53] <dholbach> we are already tracking things in two locations
[13:53] <ogra_> sergiusens, details :P
[13:53] <dholbach> but sure, I'm happy to use whatever is more convenient
[13:53] <tedg> sergiusens: Are you pulling the sources list specifying stuff into your branch? I had splitting that out on my todo.
[13:53] <sergiusens> dholbach, I'll bring it up during standup
[13:54] <sergiusens> tedg, yes, here lp:~snappy-dev/snapcraft/more-apt
[13:54] <sergiusens> tedg, team effort now ;-)
[13:54] <tedg> sergiusens: Heh, okay, I'll base off that branch.
[13:55] <dholbach> sergiusens, so you'd recommend to just look at the "Development Experience" list in Trello to see what's planned in the next days/weeks?
[13:55] <sergiusens> tedg, and mvo added geoip; I still have issues here with the branch building the examples though
[13:55] <sergiusens> dholbach, yeah
[13:55] <dholbach> ok
[13:55] <tedg> sergiusens: I tried to throw a snapcraft at maas and it needs that branch.
[13:55] <sergiusens> dholbach, if someone can, I'd integrate bug linking in trello somehow and moving columns change the status in lp ;-)
[13:57] <dholbach> mh
[14:00] <tyhicks> jdstrand, asac: I have no new information regarding better LSM support in overlayfs
[14:01] <tyhicks> jdstrand, asac: I haven't had a chance to keep up with the linux-security-module mailing list over the last few weeks so I'll skim it some time this week to see if there is anything new there
[14:05] <tedg> sergiusens: Why not have default sources be the one on the system?
[14:06] <tedg> sergiusens: It seems like that'd match what people are used to the best.
[14:06] <sergiusens> tedg, consistent base for the snap
[14:06] <tedg> sergiusens: Like if you're confused on a dep you'd do "apt-cache depends foo" to figure it out.
[14:07] <tedg> sergiusens: I think that we should allow people to set that, but we shouldn't choose it.
[14:07] <sergiusens> tedg, not even depending on the target snappy release?
[14:07] <tedg> sergiusens: No, I think that local machine makes sense. It's "my dev machine" — otherwise we're starting to do magic.
[14:08] <sergiusens> tedg, we already are ;-)
[14:08] <sergiusens> tedg, and then how do we solve jdstrand's bug in an easy transparent way?
[14:08] <tedg> I mean, I understand from the reproducable build perspective. But I think that it seperates the developer from what she is building.
[14:09] <ogra_> what i as developer want is to maintain my snapcraft dir in a branch and if the distro releases a security update to the package i user i just want to go into the branch and caall snapcraft again to get the update binary
[14:10] <tedg> sergiusens: I think that it's pretty unlikely that people will have a deb installed on their system that they can't get...
[14:10] <ogra_> thats my main purpose for using debs actually ... someone else does the maintenance of the binary for me
[14:11] <tedg> ogra_: Sure, the question is whether we choose one release for everyone to be based on.
[14:11] <ogra_> i would say LTS by default with the ability to override
[14:12] <tedg> ogra_: And sergiusens says 15.04 because that is the snappy we're releasing right now.
[14:12] <tedg> Fight!
[14:12] <tedg> ;-)
[14:13] <ogra_> if i'm after the stability and foreign maintenance above then non LTS doesnt make much sense for me
[14:13] <sergiusens> tedg, but you missed the part of my comment that once 16.04 is released; that should be the base
[14:13] <ogra_> if i'm after the latest and greatest it would be nice to have a --devel-distro switch
[14:14] <sergiusens> ogra_, tedg snapcraft.yaml is supposed to have a target field which says which release to build for
[14:14] <ogra_> buit effectively ... if you are after latest and greatest you should probably compile upstreams trunk
[14:14] <tedg> I think that we should be able to switch, but the default should be your current system.
[14:14] <tedg> It makes it easier to debug build failures.
[14:15] <sergiusens> mvo, so so, it works now; I wiped the branch and started from a clean checkout (maybe __pycache__ was going nuts)
[14:15] <ogra_> tedg, so i get 12.04 packages in a precise system ?
[14:15] <mvo> sergiusens: ok, cool. anything  else I can help with with that branch?
[14:15] <sergiusens> mvo, review, and maybe fight or side with tedg :-P
[14:17]  * ogra_ proposes a round of bullshit bingo during standup, who wins decides ...
[14:17] <sergiusens> mvo, tedg ogra_ MP is here fwiw https://code.launchpad.net/~snappy-dev/snapcraft/more-apt/+merge/271817
[14:18] <sergiusens> tedg, using local sources also may provide unsharable builds as it might depend on the ppa set you have
[14:19] <ogra_> well, you got vivid hardcoded there or do i read the code wrong ?
[14:19] <sergiusens> ogra_, yes; that will change once target lands in snapcraft.yaml
[14:20] <ogra_> right
[14:20] <tedg> sergiusens: Sure, but I think what we want first is to make it easy to use, not universally correct.
[14:20] <sergiusens> ogra_, targetting the right target
[14:20]  * ogra_ thinks thats fine for a start
[14:20] <ogra_> tedg, you mean like we did with all the rest of snappy that we are redesigning over and over now ?
[14:21] <ogra_> i think doing it correct from the start is the better approach :)
[14:21] <tedg> ogra_: I believe the modern, hip word is "pivoting"
[14:21] <ogra_> even if that means it isnt complete
[14:22] <tedg> I disagree that it is correct.
[14:22] <tedg> I think it's forcing someone to starting building a system that is correct from the start, it's okay if they don't make it perfect from the start.
[14:22] <ogra_> i only disagree that we should use vivid as default
[14:22] <tedg> We need it to be easier to play with from the start.
[14:23] <sergiusens> tedg, why is it hard to play with this way?
[14:24] <tedg> sergiusens: Because when it breaks you can't easily figure out why.
[14:24] <sergiusens> I really want to avoid the 'works for me' converstions
[14:24] <sergiusens> tedg, ah, but when it breaks and we get a bug report we can
[14:24] <tedg> sergiusens: No, it'll be "eh, doesn't work, I'll use Docker" ;-)
[14:24] <tedg> There'll be no bug report
[14:24] <sergiusens> tedg, in any case we can add a cli switch to use the local cache
[14:26] <sergiusens> tedg, well, we have 2 already
[14:30] <tedg> Hmm, I think I broke it.
[14:30] <tedg> Seems None is different than not a value.
[14:31] <asac> tyhicks: thx!
[14:46] <tedg> sergiusens: The exception test is failing, I'm not sure why.
[14:47] <sergiusens> tedg, oh, because I didn't run the tests :-/ The mp spiraled out of control and ended up in an mp to see the diff
[14:47] <sergiusens> let me fix those tests
[14:52] <stgraber> asac: not really. We hardcode those paths for security reasons as some of the LXC binaries are setuid and so using relative paths would allow for a user to root escalation
[14:54] <dholbach> fgimenez, good catch in your build-examples-test branch!
[14:54] <dholbach> fgimenez, do you know if we are planning to hook up the dep8 tests with tarmac somehow?
[14:56] <fgimenez> dholbach, thx :) no idea about the integration with tarmac, maybe elopio can help with that
[14:57] <dholbach> I think it'd be fantastic if we could run exercise the snapcraft test machinery whenever we want to land stuff - not sure though how much work that would be or if it's planned
[14:57] <ogra_> dholbach, isnt that the outstanding CI integration thing ?
[14:57] <dholbach> ogra_, I don't know :)
[14:58] <ogra_> :)
[15:11] <Chipaca> sergiusens: where does the yaml requirement come from? i don't see it in config itself
[15:11] <elopio> dholbach: tarmac is running ./runtests, which executes the integration tests.
[15:11] <Chipaca> sergiusens: coreconfig, yes, because it yaml decodes it into a struct, but generic config just passes a string?
[15:13] <jdstrand> tyhicks: re no new info> right that is fine and inline with our card priorities over the last few weeks. thanks! :)
[15:13] <sergiusens> Chipaca, right
[15:13] <sergiusens> Chipaca, you are right; I'm just talking spec wise
[15:13] <sergiusens> Chipaca, code wise we are a bit more broken :-)
[15:14] <Chipaca> ah, ok
[15:16] <jdstrand> ogra_: re snapcraft and security updates-- yes, that sounds nice
[15:17] <ogra_> :)
[15:17] <jdstrand> and yes, choosing the LTS as the default sounds sane to me, with some way to choose another release
[15:24] <dholbach> elopio, cool.... with the examples-test landing soon, can we add that too? :)
[15:24] <dholbach> right now the py2- and py3- examples are broken
[15:24] <dholbach> qml almost fixed
[15:38] <elopio> dholbach: we can. What we can't yet is to run the tests in qemu.
[15:38] <elopio> we need a bare metal machine for that.
[15:41] <dholbach> ok, I see
[15:41] <dholbach> thanks elopio
[15:48] <sergiusens> mvo, so mind reviewing https://code.launchpad.net/~snappy-dev/snapcraft/more-apt/+merge/271817 ?
[15:59] <sergiusens> Chipaca, in between RESTs ;-)
[15:59] <Chipaca> sergiusens: clearly
[15:59] <sergiusens> Chipaca, so never as you are always RESTing now ;-)
[16:13] <asac> biezpal: hey, can you file a bug please and give it to me?
[16:13] <asac> thanks
[16:25] <elopio> ev: can I deploy this is jenkins in a local lxc? That would make the requests to RT easier.
[16:27] <dholbach> all right my friends - I call it a day - see you all tomorrow!
[17:25] <tedg> sergiusens: So we may need a way to filter out packages... the ros stuff is pulling in the whole kitchen sink
[17:26] <tedg> sergiusens: Not sure if we should provide a way to basically say we already have some installed or provided
[17:26] <sergiusens> tedg, as in, extend the manifest.txt thing?
[17:26] <tedg> sergiusens: Or just provide a generic filter
[17:26] <sergiusens> tedg, is this using the ros debs you created?
[17:26] <tedg> sergiusens: Hmm, I guess I'm set for trusty, so that may be the problem.
[17:27] <tedg> sergiusens: No, ROS debs from their official archive
[17:42] <sergiusens> tedg, do most of these ros things need to be stage-packages contrary to build-packages?
[17:42]  * sergiusens is catching up with ros
[17:46] <tedg> sergiusens: Yeah, basically you're installing the RPC mechanism.
[17:46] <tedg> Well, really it's an RPC broker
[17:50] <jdstrand> zyga (though this may be a question for sergiusens/tedg): I tried to 'snapcraft' with this: https://git.launchpad.net/~zyga/+git/snap-example-hostapd/tree/snapcraft.yaml, and have:
[17:50] <jdstrand> Namespace(cmd='snap', force=False, func=<function assemble at 0x7f1af125e510>)
[17:50] <jdstrand> Unknown plugin: x-custom
[17:50] <jdstrand> Could not load part x-custom
[17:50] <jdstrand> I have the snapcraft from the tools-proposed ppa
[17:51] <jdstrand> where does one get that plugin?
[17:51] <tedg> jdstrand: There is an MR, but I doubt it'll be adopted.
[17:51] <tedg> jdstrand: It runs scripts, which we were trying to avoid.
[17:52] <ogra_> jdstrand, alsso the snapcraft.yaml format changed
[17:52] <ogra_> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~snappy-dev/snapcraft/core/view/head:/docs/your-first-snap.md
[17:52] <sergiusens> jdstrand, did you delete the 'parts' dir in there? that's where local plugins live
[17:52] <jdstrand> I didn't do anything
[17:52] <jdstrand> :)
[17:52] <jdstrand> zygo gave me this url at the beginning of last week
[17:52] <sergiusens> ogra_, he already has that ;-)
[17:52] <jdstrand> zyga*
[17:53] <jdstrand> so I just tried to use it. I guess it needs work
[17:53] <sergiusens> jdstrand, but yeah, that example won't work with trunk anymore
[17:53] <jdstrand> zyga: do you have an updated snapcraft.yaml for the new tools?
[17:53] <jdstrand> well, I don't really need it
[17:53] <jdstrand> I tested my network-admin cap in other ways and will just add more rules as needed
[17:53]  * zyga looks
[17:54] <sergiusens> jdstrand, this MP is pretty straight forward in explaining why https://code.launchpad.net/~sergiusens/snapcraft/mapnames/+merge/271799
[17:54] <zyga> jdstrand: no, that format works with trunk (it's already using the new format)
[17:55] <zyga> jdstrand: the issue of running scripts from snapcraft.yaml vs from makefile that that snapcraft.yaml points at is not a priority for me now, I'm working on a commercial project now and I won't have time to look at this for a while
[17:55] <zyga> jdstrand: it probably doesn't work with the version in the ppa but it does work with trunk
[17:55] <jdstrand> ok, that's fine
[17:56] <jdstrand> like I said, I tested what I'm doing in other ways
[17:56] <zyga> jdstrand: if you branch lp:snapcraft and build it it should be fine
[17:56] <jdstrand> zyga: thanks
[17:56] <zyga> jdstrand: ok, sorry this is not more friendly :/
[17:56] <jdstrand> zyga: ok, I was just going by what others said-- I have the branch from friday running here
[17:56] <jdstrand> anyhoo
[17:57]  * jdstrand tries to build a java one now
[17:58]  * tedg sends flowers to jdstrand's CPU
[17:58] <jdstrand> well, really, I have a jar file
[17:58] <jdstrand> I just need to snag openjdk and then I can script the rest
[18:01] <jdstrand> is there some easy way to say "give me these 5 debs and I'll provide 'services/binaries' that use them"?
[18:02] <zyga> jdstrand: you can use the stage-debs key AFAIR
[18:02]  * zyga looks
[18:02] <zyga>         stage-packages:
[18:02] <zyga> jdstrand: ^^
[18:02] <jdstrand> sergiusens mentioned something about that on friday (ie, grab ufw from the archive and use parts for it), but this is different. I want openjdk. I'll just show a jar in the snap and script the rest
[18:03] <ogra_> jdstrand, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ogra/+junk/ircproxy/view/head:/snapcraft.yaml
[18:03] <ogra_> stage-packages
[18:03] <jdstrand> ok, thanks
[18:03] <ogra_> (with dash in front)
[18:03] <zyga> is there a manual page for snapcraft.yaml?
[18:03] <jdstrand> s/show a/shove a/
[18:03] <zyga> plainbox has close to two dozen manual pages now and it's a lot easier for developers to use it now
[18:03] <ogra_> jdstrand, you want the copy plugin then
[18:03] <zyga> maybe I should write some for snapcraft
[18:04] <jdstrand> please note, I am a total newbie
[18:04] <ogra_> jdstrand, look at my snapcraft.yaml above ... you should be able to mostly copy it and change the values
[18:04] <zyga> jdstrand: that's why manual pages are great!
[18:04] <sergiusens> jdstrand, you can use the jdk plugin as well
[18:04] <jdstrand> I read the docs/* and a couple examples
[18:04]  * jdstrand <3s manpages
[18:04] <ogra_> sergiusens, will that copy a local jar in place ?
[18:05] <sergiusens> ogra_, no; I thought he said he wanted a jdk environment :-)
[18:05] <sergiusens> and grab a random jar
[18:05] <ogra_> he has a jar and wants the env around it
[18:05] <jdstrand> yes, what ogra_ said
[18:06] <sergiusens> jdstrand, maybe the easiest path is ogra's
[18:07] <jdstrand> ok
[18:07] <sergiusens> jdstrand, the canonical example from sources is http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~snappy-dev/snapcraft/core/files/head:/examples/java-hello-world/
[18:09] <jdstrand> sergiusens: yeah, I saw that. I just have a jar, so
[18:10] <ogra_> so put it next to your snapcraft.yaml and use the copy plugin like in mine ...
[18:10] <ogra_> for stage-packages you add your jdk then
[18:10] <ogra_> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ogra/+junk/ircproxy/files for reference
[18:11] <jdstrand> yeah, I have openjdk-7-jre-headless
[18:11] <sergiusens> zyga, is this fixed btw https://bugs.launchpad.net/snapcraft/+bug/1484596 ?
[18:11] <zyga> sergiusens: nope, not yet, though I did have a look at how to fix it and I think I can patch it in snapcraft directly without involving the more correct fix
[18:11]  * zyga looks
[18:12] <zyga> one logging call to silence
[18:23] <zyga> sergiusens: I have a fix, testing now
[18:23] <sergiusens> ack, ty
[18:24] <sergiusens> jdstrand, right, no need to add the jdk if not building
[18:24] <sergiusens> ogra_, btw, I just recalled; sources.list for armhf will be different (ports...)
[18:25] <ogra_> yeah
[18:25] <ogra_> and an /ubuntu-ports suffix
[18:25] <sergiusens> ogra_, and no geoip I guess
[18:26] <ogra_> no mirrors
[18:26] <sergiusens> right
[18:30]  * zyga adds some improvements for plainbox that snapcraft can use
[18:31] <zyga> sergiusens: can I assume you run unit tests with the daily development snapshots of plainbox?
[18:33] <jdstrand> ok, that seems to have worked, nice
[18:33] <jdstrand> ogra_: thanks!
[18:33] <sergiusens> zyga, whatever is in our readme
[18:34] <sergiusens> zyga, sudo add-apt-repository ppa:hardware-certification/public
[18:40] <zyga> sergiusens: excellent
[19:22] <sergiusens> elopio or Chipaca mind walking down the pipe for https://code.launchpad.net/~sergiusens/snapcraft/1498140/+merge/271860 ?
[19:27]  * guest42315 snappy <3
[19:30] <zyga> sergiusens: testing now, I'll sent the MR in a sec
[19:30] <zyga> sergiusens: wow, seing people crete new plainbox jobs is amazing
[19:33] <zyga> sergiusens: FYI: ttps://code.launchpad.net/~zyga/snapcraft/fix-1484596/+merge/271863
[19:34] <zyga> (still testing, give me one sec)
[19:35] <sergiusens> zyga, that's empty ;-)
[19:35] <zyga> ohh, sorry
[19:41] <zyga> sergiusens: fixed, I'll pastebin the way it runs for me now
[19:42] <zyga> (now with fixed merge conflict and typos)
[19:43] <zyga> snapcraft/normal/assemble-meta fails for me (new laptop, perhaps some deps missing)
[19:43] <sergiusens> zyga, strange
[19:44] <zyga> sergiusens: I'll pastebin in a sec
[19:46] <zyga> sergiusens: do I need snappy from the ppa or is wily fresh enough?
[19:48] <sergiusens> zyga, ah, the ppa isn't fresh enough
[19:48] <zyga> sergiusens: yes, but it won't prevent it from working
[19:48] <zyga> sergiusens: I'll merge the fix to the ppa in a sec
[19:48] <zyga> sergiusens: and fast-path to stable
[19:48] <zyga> sergiusens: (though tomorrow, I need to ack this with spineau)
[19:51] <sergiusens> zyga, tomorrow is fine
[19:52]  * zyga still runs tests for the pastebin
[19:55] <zyga> http://paste.ubuntu.com/12516689/
[19:56] <zyga> sergiusens: ^^ I think you can merge this, those are just flags
[19:57] <zyga> sergiusens: I'll write an article on the new feature and merge this into plainbox
[19:57] <zyga> sergiusens: afk for a sec
[19:57]  * zyga tests suspend
[19:57] <zyga> sergiusens: add those flags to new jobs that are coming in
[20:46] <sergiusens> ogra_, does this look ok to you?  https://code.launchpad.net/~sergiusens/snapcraft/1498157/+merge/271872
[21:18] <sergiusens> elopio, finish up the reviews! :-)
[22:24] <sergiusens> tedg, elopio https://code.launchpad.net/~sergiusens/snapcraft/1498212/+merge/271881
[22:25]  * sergiusens will be back later tonight
[22:25] <sergiusens> that fixes the broken setup.py's


[02:33] <hugomagic> hi
[02:38] <hugomagic> I was trying to install netflix and my terminal stop totally downloading firefox. I did a reboot, now I see that I have new updates so Im supossed to do a partial distribution upgrade but the terminal still showing trying to download firefox just trying and not doing it therefore I cant complete the updates.
[02:38] <holstein> !netflix
[02:38] <holstein> the terminal shouldnt be downloading firefox
[02:39] <hugomagic> supossedly is one of the steps
[02:39] <holstein> hugomagic: there are no "official" steps.. but, you can share what you are looking at
[02:40] <hugomagic> I wish I was able to copy and paste from the terminal but I dont know how
[02:41] <Unit193> Select with mouse, right click, copy.
[02:41] <hugomagic> I'll give it a try
[02:42] <holstein> hugomagic: you can share the link you are reffering to, that you are implying requires you to use the terminal to download firefox
[02:44] <Unit193> holstein: It's silverlight in wine, thus needs firefox in wine to use the silverlight extension.
[02:45] <hugomagic> exactly
[02:45] <Unit193> !pastebin
[02:45] <ball> !spleen
[02:49] <Unit193> hugomagic: Figured out how to copy from the terminal?
[02:50] <hugomagic> I will put a screenshot on the link above
[02:54] <hugomagic> I put the screenshot already on imagebin.org under the name distribution upgrade
[02:54] <hugomagic> http://imagebin.org/280439
[02:58] <Unit193> v22.0?
[03:01] <hugomagic> yes and there is where it stop totally and it does not continue with the next steps.
[03:02] <Unit193> I think that may be a bug perhaps, if it needs a newer version?  I do not know, isn't there a #netflix-desktop or something?
[03:05] <hugomagic> This is the page I went to get the info on how to get netflix http://www.iheartubuntu.com/2012/11/netflix-on-ubuntu-is-here.html
[03:05] <holstein> !netflix | hugomagic
[03:05] <hugomagic> Sorry I am very new to linux
[03:06] <holstein> that is the place i refer to
[03:08] <hugomagic> I was following the steps but I'm stuck there installing firefox
[03:09] <hugomagic> is there anything I can do to revert the process and go back to a stable state?
[03:09] <Unit193> Yeah, might be better to ask in #netflix-desktop
[03:09] <Unit193> You can purge it.
[03:09] <hugomagic> ohh
[03:10] <holstein> you should purge it
[03:10] <hugomagic> ok
[03:11] <hugomagic> is there a special command to do that? Do just write the word purge on the terminal?
[03:13] <hugomagic> I did write purge and then enter but nothing is happening.
[03:13] <Unit193> sudo apt-get purge netflix-desktop
[03:13] <hugomagic> oh cool
[04:10] <Poisoned_Dragon> grrr
[04:10] <Poisoned_Dragon> oops, wrong window
[10:38] <someguy80> has anyone here been able to install MS Office 2010 in xubuntu 13.01?
[10:39] <bazhang> check the appdb and then join #winehq
[10:40] <bazhang> !appdb | someguy80
[10:40] <someguy80> !appdb
[10:41] <baizon> someguy80: http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=18487
[10:41] <bazhang> http://appdb.winehq.org   <----- someguy80
[10:41] <bazhang> someguy80, after checking that link, then /join #winehq for support
[10:41] <someguy80> thank you. I was just wondering if there were any xubuntu specific issues in doing so.
[10:42] <baizon> someguy80: 32bit http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=17336
[10:42] <baizon> it seems the 32bit is working, the 64bit version not really
[10:43] <cfhowlett> someguy80, wine is pretty much distro agnostic
[10:43] <someguy80> thank you again
[10:43] <baizon> no problem
[10:43] <someguy80> the dr. pepper of software
[13:09] <Jaime-Xubuntu> hello
[13:10] <cfhowlett> Jaime-Xubuntu, greetings
[13:10] <Jaime-Xubuntu> im triying to use my hdmi sound but i have no audio
[13:10] <Jaime-Xubuntu> Thanks
[13:10] <Jaime-Xubuntu> i have aspire one 722
[13:10] <Jaime-Xubuntu> somebody can help me?
[13:11] <Jaime-Xubuntu> how to configure hmdi sound to aspire one 722 xubuntu 13.10
[13:11] <gr0nt> I absolutely cannot get libudev.so.1 to work
[13:11] <gr0nt> Im about to smash my rig
[13:12] <gr0nt> Sudo apt-get install libudev1 --- package not found
[13:12] <cfhowlett> gr0nt, wouldn't advise it
[13:12] <gr0nt> Nothing on google works
[13:12] <cfhowlett> gr0nt, I'm on 12.04, all repos enabled.  it ain't there.
[13:13] <cfhowlett> gr0nt, suggest you search for libudev*
[13:13] <Jaime-Xubuntu> how to configure hmdi sound to aspire one 722 xubuntu 13.10
[13:13] <gr0nt> Its installed cf
[13:15] <gr0nt> Im about to switch distro, wasted hours
[13:15] <PiiiRKO> gr0nt: xubuntu is best lightweight ubuntu distro.. but.. its up to you..
[13:16] <Jaime-Xubuntu> bye, some request on<EMAIL_ADDRESS><-
[13:17] <cfhowlett> gr0nt, free = free to choose what works
[13:17] <gr0nt> Good point.
[13:17] <krytarik> gr0nt: It's available on every version later than 12.04.
[13:18] <gr0nt> Im on 13.10
[13:19] <Sysi-> !info libudev1
[13:19] <cfhowlett> Sysi-, why doesn't this show up on apt-cache policy?
[13:19] <cfhowlett> d'0h!  later than 12.04
[13:20] <cfhowlett> !cookie|Sysi-,
[13:20] <Sysi-> on 12.04 you have just libudev0
[13:20] <Sysi-> gr0nt: you did sudo apt-get update of course?
[13:21] <gr0nt> Update and upgrade
[13:21] <Sysi-> if you're compiling you might need libudev-dev
[13:21] <gr0nt> Im pulling up the actual error message...
[13:22] <cfhowlett> gr0nt, sudo apt-get dist-upgrade might pull it iin
[13:22] <cfhowlett> in
[13:23] <gr0nt> Error while loading shared libraries: libudev.so.1: cannot open shared object file: no such file or directory
[13:23] <gr0nt> Most of the google results have me creating symlinks... Which didnt work
[13:24] <gr0nt> Gonna try that cfh
[13:30] <gr0nt> No luck, very sad :(
[13:31] <cfhowlett> gr0nt, sorry.  compile yourself? or get libudev-dev as Sysi suggested?
[13:32] <gr0nt> Not even sure where to get source
[13:32] <gr0nt> This thing is like vaporware
[13:33] <krytarik> gr0nt: You should find that it's installed already: "locate libudev.so.0".
[13:33] <krytarik> Oops, wrong version :)
[13:34] <gr0nt> Yes you are right
[13:35] <cfhowlett> gr0nt, apt-cache search libudeve will show you
[13:35] <cfhowlett> libudev
[13:35] <gr0nt> I mustve done so.0 and so.13.0
[13:35] <ObrienDave> https://github.com/rogerwang/node-webkit/wiki/The-solution-of-lacking-libudev.so.0
[13:35] <ObrienDave> did you see this?
[13:35] <gr0nt> Yes i did, dave
[13:36] <ObrienDave> k
[13:36] <gr0nt> Thank u very much
[13:37] <gr0nt> So the command is
[13:37] <gr0nt> # ln -s /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libudev.so.1 ./libudev.so.0
[13:37] <gr0nt> Symbolic link from my understanding
[13:37] <koegs> gr0nt: which ubuntu-version do you use? 13.10
[13:37] <gr0nt> Ive typed in what you suggested krytarik
[13:37] <gr0nt> Yes 13.10 64bit
[13:38] <koegs> and you need libudev.so.1 or libudev.so.0?
[13:38] <gr0nt> My error message is:
[13:38] <gr0nt> (gr0nt) Error while loading shared libraries: libudev.so.1: cannot open shared object file: no such file or directory
[13:39] <koegs> what was the result of "sudo apt-get install libudev1"?
[13:39] <gr0nt> Is my ln -s command backwards?
[13:40] <gr0nt> Unable to locate package.
[13:40] <krytarik> gr0nt: Wait, you got a result on the exact command I posted?
[13:41] <gr0nt> 'Locate libudev'
[13:41] <gr0nt> Yes i got some results, nothing so.1 though
[13:41] <krytarik> gr0nt: Because I missed to adapt the version the one you are looking for, as I mentioned there.
[13:42] <koegs> "locate libudev.so.1"
[13:42] <krytarik> gr0nt: That is, if you get a result for that there, you likely aren't on 13.10.
[13:42] <koegs> and also "sudo apt-get install libudev1" should work too, or you are not on ubuntu 13.10, as krytarik said :)
[13:42] <gr0nt> 0 results, koegs
[13:42] <gr0nt> Xubuntu
[13:43] <gr0nt> I promise it doesnt work :) lol
[13:43] <koegs> does not matter, please show the result of "lsb_release -a"
[13:43] <gr0nt> Simply says, package not found
[13:43] <gr0nt> One moment koegs
[13:44] <gr0nt> What the?!?!?!  12.04.3 LTS
[13:44] <gr0nt> }:(  oh lord...
[13:44] <krytarik> lol
[13:44] <cfhowlett> LOLOL!
[13:44] <koegs> QED :)
[13:44] <ObrienDave> that would explain a lot ;))
[13:44] <cfhowlett> gr0nt, not laughing at you, laughing with you ...
[13:45] <gr0nt> Sorry guys.    I think you owe your faithful machine an apology
[13:46] <cfhowlett> and a fresh 13.10
[13:46] <gr0nt> Yes i do...  * im sowwy guy *
[13:46] <ObrienDave> *your 'puter forgives you*
[13:47] <gr0nt> I have a secret, havent slept in 28 hours.  This is the problem i think
[13:47] <cfhowlett> gr0nt, best thing to do is get some shuteye.  Come back MUCH later and start over.  Your present condition is almost guaranteed to lead to disaster.
[13:49] <gr0nt> I ended up with isos for 12.04 and 12.10 my brain read that as 13.10... Over and over and over.... Sorry guys.
[13:50] <gr0nt> Thanks for the help, still laughing, smh.
[13:51] <gr0nt> Then i didnt even install the iso i thought was 13.10 ... Youre right cfh
[13:51] <gr0nt> Time for sleep :)
[13:51] <cfhowlett> gr0nt, go to bed
[13:52] <gr0nt> I appreciate the help
[13:53] <ObrienDave> wait until you get cfhowlett's bill ;)
[13:56] <cfhowlett> ObrienDave, paypal and bitcoin accepted.  conversion to Chinese yuan appreciated
[13:59] <ObrienDave> LOL
[14:01] <ObrienDave> i should bite my tongue about your bill, especially after last weeks fiasco ;P
[14:17] <someguy80> hello. i have  a dell inspiron mini 1012 with xubuntu 13.01 on it. i have the power options set to do nothing when i shut the lid for a/c and battery. but when i shut it it throws it into sleep or standby. can anyone help?
[14:17] <cfhowlett> someguy80, /swap?
[14:18] <someguy80> hello. i have  a dell inspiron mini 1012 with xubuntu 13.01 on it. i have the power options set to do nothing when i shut the lid for a/c
[14:18] <someguy80> for some reason that msg got split up
[14:18] <cfhowlett> someguy80, so ... no /swap?
[14:19] <someguy80> what do you mean? sorry still a noob
[14:21] <cfhowlett> !swap
[14:21] <GridCube> someguy80, http://askubuntu.com/questions/362667/xubuntu-13-10-disabling-suspend-on-lid-being-closed
[14:22] <cfhowlett> GridCube, thanks.  think you nailed it.
[14:22] <someguy80> well, i know what a swap file is, but i don't know what it has to do with this *feeling dumb*
[14:22] <someguy80> yea thanks gridcube
[14:22] <cfhowlett> someguy80, I may have misconspoke.  please see gridcube's suggestion
[14:23] <someguy80> and thank you as well cf
[14:26] <xubuntu522> what are Xubuntu 12.04 LTS specifications?
[14:27] <cfhowlett> xubuntu522, specs?  you mean ... what exactly?
[14:27] <cfhowlett> there are MANY specifications.
[14:28] <GridCube> xubuntu522, it depends on what you need to do
[14:29] <GridCube> but xubuntu "will" run in very low specs, like 5GB hd and 256MB ram, but that will be slooooooooooooow as a snail
[14:31] <xubuntu522> What I meant was how much ram,how big of a video card and what Ghz prossesor that it can run minimum.
[14:32] <GridCube> xubuntu522, any computed manufacturated in the last decade should run xubuntu 12.04, just not very well in some cases more than others
[14:33] <GridCube> a "recommendable" setting though is pentiun IV 1Ghz, 1GB ram, 8mb video
[14:34] <GridCube> the ram needs have grew a lot lately because of web browsers
[14:34] <xubuntu522> Well,my computer has only 448mb of ram,a 64mb video card and a 1.86Ghz prossesor.Would that work properly?
[14:34] <GridCube> it will run slow
[14:35] <GridCube> you can try other alternatives like lubuntu or slitaz
[14:35] <GridCube> the first is part of the *buntu family the second is not
[14:35] <cfhowlett> xubuntu522, lubuntu and xubuntu are optimized for older / lower spec machines like yours.
[14:35] <GridCube> cfhowlett, that is not completely true
[14:36]  * cfhowlett cocks a suspicious eyebrow.  eh?
[14:36] <cfhowlett> GridCube, did I misread the literature?
[14:37] <xubuntu522> I have already tried lubuntu but this is a old computer and it does not have a internal cd Drive and i cannot get it to boot from a cd,and Wubi always shows a error and downloads two files.
[14:37] <xubuntu522> aTwo lubuntu install files I mean.
[14:38] <cfhowlett> xubuntu522, wubi is a dying option.  it is possible to boot without cd ...
[14:39] <cfhowlett> !install
[14:41] <xubuntu522> I also cannot boot from a flash drive
[14:41] <GridCube> use plop
[14:41] <GridCube> !PLOP
[14:41] <cfhowlett> !plop
[14:41] <GridCube> mmm
[14:42] <GridCube> why is that not working
[14:42] <cfhowlett> what the hey is PLOP
[14:42] <slickymaster> !info PLOP
[14:42] <slickymaster> that's whi GridCube
[14:42] <cfhowlett> xubuntu522, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SmartBootManager
[14:42] <GridCube> www.google.com.ar/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CC4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fxubuntu.org%2Fnews%2Fbooting-the-xubuntu-usb-image-from-a-cd%2F&ei=Uj-fUvWyE5besATP3IKgBw&usg=AFQjCNFipl--JFkDD_cn6uADNAL7y2BaBQ&sig2=cBnTjqXYfZVcm6pfsUozVQ
[14:42] <GridCube> no
[14:42] <GridCube> http://xubuntu.org/news/booting-the-xubuntu-usb-image-from-a-cd/
[14:43] <GridCube> slickymaster, cfhowlett ^
[14:43] <GridCube> i dont know why the factoid doesnt work
[14:43] <slickymaster> yeah, it's strange
[14:43] <xubuntu522> I have Thought of Plop too,but I do not have a internal cd drive and cannot boot from usb.
[14:44] <GridCube> wubi would be worst with your specs
[14:44] <ObrienDave> ubottu is being finicky this morning
[14:44] <ObrienDave> sort of LOL
[14:44] <GridCube> xubuntu522, do you have a diskette?
[14:44]  * slickymaster slaps ubottu
[14:45] <ObrienDave> :P
[14:46] <GridCube> cfhowlett, respecting your previous question about the literature, please read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/StrategyDocument#The_Target
[14:46] <GridCube> :)
[14:46] <cfhowlett> GridCube, thanky
[14:47] <xubuntu522> Thank You for all your time.
[14:47] <cfhowlett> xubuntu522, best of luck.
[14:47] <GridCube> :)
[14:48] <cfhowlett> GridCube, it seems that running xubuntu on older / lower spec was just a happy accident then ...
[14:50] <GridCube> no, xubuntu is not "meant" to work on old computers, but on all the spectrum, its not optimized for old computers, like lubuntu is.
[14:50] <cfhowlett> GridCube, good to know.  I'll adjust my "valuable" advice in the future
[14:50] <GridCube> :)
[14:50] <GridCube> for example xubuntu doesnt provide nonPAE kernels anymore
[14:51] <GridCube> so all computers that run non PAE cpus are out of our lists
[15:43] <labyrinth00> hi to all anyone around?
[15:43] <ObrienDave> always
[15:43] <labyrinth00> great
[15:44] <labyrinth00> can you tell me what would stop rc.local from loading my start up commands?
[15:45] <koegs> labyrinth00: what did you add?
[15:46] <labyrinth00> should i paste it here?
[15:47] <holstein> if the startup command dont work, they wont work there either.. have you tested them outside the startup?
[15:47] <labyrinth00> yes if i use each command from terminal it works
[15:47] <labyrinth00> no error
[15:48] <labyrinth00> but last night it worked this morning it stopped
[15:48] <koegs> !paste
[15:49] <labyrinth00> i had a login loop issue with xubuntu and delete Xauthority then this happened
[15:49] <labyrinth00> ok
[15:51] <labyrinth00> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6520366/
[15:51] <holstein> what i would do is test as a different user.. make sure its not something with my user /home that is causing the problem
[15:52] <labyrinth00> ok ill try that
[15:55] <koegs> labyrinth00: please keep in mind, that in rc.local these commands are executed as root, not as your user
[16:01] <Labyrinth00> hi the new user didnt work for the auto start
[16:02] <Labyrinth00> hi the new user didnt work for the auto start
[16:03] <someguy80> so i tried the advice about the power options when the lid closes and it still suspends when i close the lid. any ideas?
[16:04] <krytarik> Labyrinth00: <koegs> labyrinth00: please keep in mind, that in rc.local these commands are executed as root, not as your user
[16:07] <Labyrinth00> yes i read that but another user suggested i try that
[16:08] <krytarik> Yeah, I know. :P
[16:08] <holstein> Labyrinth00: i would look into how/why you deleted xauthority..
[16:09] <krytarik> However, that would only help to check if it only works with your usual user, i.e. the other way around - and you just confirmed that.
[16:10] <someguy80> i have tried editing the /etc/systemd/logind.conf file with no luck.
[16:11] <krytarik> Labyrinth00: Actually, scratch the very last bit of that, you said you tried the autostart.
[16:11] <holstein> someguy80: its usually not ideal for the cooloing of the system to be running with the lid closed.. anyways, i have had a few systems that i just could not get that to work with..
[16:12] <someguy80> it works with other distros, just not 13.01
[16:12] <holstein> 13.10
[16:12] <someguy80> uhhh yea thats what i meant
[16:13] <someguy80> ...
[16:13] <someguy80> or not
[16:13] <someguy80> ther HAS to be a way
[16:13] <holstein> works with other distros? or other versions of ubuntu?
[16:13] <someguy80> both
[16:13] <someguy80> distros and other ubuntus
[16:13] <someguy80> its a dell inspiron mini 1012
[16:14] <Labyrinth00> krytarik: i delete it because i could not log into the system because of some loop after reading all around they said delete the Xauthority  and after that i got into the desktop
[16:15] <koegs> if you need vnc from start, i suggest using this guide http://seb.so/vnc-from-boot-without-logging-in-ubuntu-lubuntu-xubuntu-and-mint-lmde/
[16:15] <krytarik> Labyrinth00: It wasn't -me- asking that. :P holstein ^^
[16:15] <Labyrinth00> lol sorry im at work multi tasking
[16:16] <krytarik> No problem. :)
[16:21] <krytarik> Labyrinth00: So, to summarize, make sure that your script works when run as root.
[16:23] <Labyrinth00> something like sudo /etc/rc/local?
[16:23] <Labyrinth00> something like sudo /etc/rc.local?
[16:23] <krytarik> Nope, the script you are trying to run -from- it.
[16:25] <Labyrinth00> question if you have a bad command in the rc.local would that stop it from working?
[16:26] <koegs> it depends, most likely the system will still boot
[16:29] <krytarik> Labyrinth00: Yes - http://askubuntu.com/questions/239600/why-doesnt-rc-local-run-all-my-commands-and-what-can-i-do-about-it
[16:30] <krytarik> Labyrinth00: That is, it stops executing the commands where it fails first.
[16:31] <holstein> if they dont work, they wont work in there.. could be causing what you might have assumed was a boot loop
[16:36] <xubuntu040> anyone installed xubuntu on a stick?
[16:37] <ObrienDave> yep
[16:37] <xubuntu040> how big?
[16:37] <Labyrinth00_> holstein:  i removed the line with vino and the auto start works
[16:37] <ObrienDave> 8GB minimum
[16:37] <ObrienDave> am using a 16GB for Xubuntu 32 bit
[16:38] <koegs> 13.10 installer checks for 5.5GB free space minimum, so i would also recommend 8GB at least
[16:39] <xubuntu040> ext4?
[16:39] <ObrienDave> yes
[16:39] <holstein> you could install with the mini iso and build in just what you need to fit whatever
[16:39] <holstein> !mini
[16:43] <xubuntu040> thx, i´ll try
[17:39] <enrico__> hi guys, I'm trying to install a .bin file
[17:39] <enrico__> i did sudo chmod +x filename
[17:40] <enrico__> then ./filename
[17:40] <enrico__> also tried u+x
[17:40] <enrico__> Istallation starts, until I get this
[17:40] <enrico__> /tmp/install.dir.4553/Linux/resource/jre/jre/bin/java: 2: /tmp/install.dir.4553/Linux/resource/jre/jre/bin/java: Syntax error: "(" unexpected
[17:53] <baizon> enrico__: please post the whole error message
[17:53] <baizon> on paste.ubuntu.com
[17:56] <sku1d> hi. i just wanna idle and read a bit.
[17:58] <enrico__> in a sec
[17:58] <sku1d> itncsss0
[17:58] <sku1d> damn :)
[18:04] <enrico__> baizon,  http://paste.ubuntu.com/6520989/plain/
[18:05] <baizon> enrico__: which program is it?
[18:05] <enrico__> SPSS
[18:06] <baizon> enrico__: try this... http://searchinsleep.blogspot.de/2013/01/install-spss-20-onto-64-bit-ubuntu-1210.html
[18:07] <GridCube> !ot | sku1d
[18:07] <GridCube> :)
[18:07] <enrico__> mine is 32 bit
[18:09] <sku1d> how to change my password? :p
[18:10] <bazhang> !password | sku1d
[18:10] <sku1d> thx
[18:10] <bazhang> np
[18:15] <enrico__> I give up, I'll try an older version
[18:16] <ObrienDave> sudo password times out in 10 minutes
[18:25] <slickymaster> ObrienDave: actually by default sudo password timeout is 15 minutes
[18:25] <ObrienDave> hmmmm, ok, i'll take your word on that :)
[18:27] <slickymaster> ObrienDave: don't intended to be rude. Look here https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RootSudoTimeout
[18:28] <slickymaster> ;)
[18:29] <ObrienDave> I believe you, seeing how you're like, number 2 or 3 on the Xubuntu QA testing list :)
[18:31] <slickymaster> That means nothing really
[18:54] <Peyam> still no solution to 'Make new items in menu' issue?
[19:00] <ochosi> Peyam: what's the issue?
[19:01] <Peyam> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/alacarte/+bug/1244087
[19:01] <Peyam> http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CCoQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fubuntuforums.org%2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D2188020&ei=7HufUruHBOqH4ATHqYBA&usg=AFQjCNGbs51NWwzuPpettZXGRE9nlgJ1Sg&bvm=bv.57155469,d.bGE
[19:05] <Peyam> gotta play some HoN
[19:05] <Peyam> c y
[19:53]  * nikolam going crazy with this default focus in xfce
[19:59] <nikolam> I have Activate focus stealing prevention and Honor standard ICCCM focus hint selected. And again, with Alt+F2 per example new windows is not in focus (and with other new windows/apps 12.04 lts 32bit
[20:46] <neorpheus_> hi there everyone, i was hoping to get some help on a problem im having with skype. i have seen online where people will launch skype from terminal to be able to see the errors but the problem is that i get a different error everytime skype crashes.
[20:47] <neorpheus_> usually something to do with alsa though
[21:18] <sku1d> neorpheus: skype can be configured to use pulseaudio in it's settings. try that first. you can also try to start skype with padsp skype, which will simulate a /dev/dsp device, which might be required.
[21:22] <neorpheus_> ive noticed that i seem to get "ALSA lib pcm_dmix.c:1022:(snd_pcm_dmix_open) unable to open slave"  pretty often
[21:23] <hellpe> hello everyone
[21:24] <hellpe> I'm using Xubutu Saucy and since a few days, Software Updater has a very strange behavior
[21:26] <hellpe> it keeps launching, and crashing, then launching and crashing again
[21:27] <sku1d> neorpheus: http://en.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-12042013-102601pm.php
[21:28] <hellpe> (also, I have a 30-second lag when typing a message in Xchat right now, very annoying)
[21:28] <neorpheus_> sku1d, yeah i dont have pulse audio available
[21:28] <sku1d> neorpheus: okay. i c
[21:28] <hellpe> I tried to kill dpkg the run dpkg configure -a, but it's stuck on "runnong depmod"
[21:29] <neorpheus_> give me a few minutes and ill get a screencap of the available options
[21:31] <pavel_s_cz_> Hello there, anybody using lightdm and XDMCPServer? I have strange problem, when I run Xnest -query hostname... :1, where hostname is runing xubuntu 12.04.3 and host's lightdm has settings:[XDMCPServer] enabled=true, I am not able to connect to hostname... lightdm.log on hostname reports only "Connecting to XServer myip:1" .. any help or suggest is apreciated
[21:34] <pavel_s_cz_> The Xnest starts the black window.... when I close it after some while on host's lightdm.log is reported: "DEBUG: Error connecting to XServer myip:1; DEBUG: Send Failed(session_id=37387 status='Failed to connect to display :1'"
[21:35] <sku1d> neorpheus: i don't know alsa really, but from how i understand the message you posted it might be that your slave-slider is not called "pcm" in which case you must modify $HOME/.alsarc, i think
[21:37] <neorpheus_> skuld, yeah i have never had to tangle with alsa before so i really have no idea but if it tells you anything i opened up alsa mixer and i do see a slider called PCM
[21:41] <sku1d> neorpheus: try "sudo apt-get install libasound2-plugins:i386"
[21:44] <neorpheus_> well, thats a good sign. i actually got the login "swoosh-pop" sound from skype and no errors in the console yet
[21:46] <sku1d> neorpheus: skype is compiled for 32 bits in order to run on more platforms. so it is linked to 32bit libs as well. sadly it is statically linked and the libs are loaded by ld. otherwise you can use ldd to find that out.
[21:47] <neorpheus_> ok so it looks like it worked except that now i cannot select my usb audio device for a microphone anymore,
[21:48] <neorpheus_> ahh that makes sense i have has to get ia-32 libs before to get other programs working
[21:48] <sku1d> you might need something like libusb for 32bit as well
[21:49] <neorpheus_> well the microphone was selectable before but it was hit or miss as to whether it would actually work
[22:18] <charles720> hi, can someone pls explain me real quick how you "nowadays" configure or edit your graphiccard settings? I once did it in the xorg.conf, but i read since the graphicstuff is now done in the kernel you no longer need that
[22:18] <charles720> its been a while since i last confronted myself with linux systems
[22:19] <charles720> cause sadly my graphic adapter does not yet show his full 3d potential
[22:19] <charles720> tbh though if he even has really potential
[22:19] <charles720> should work but i have to say it is an via KN400 chipset
[22:20] <charles720> laptop graphic with shared memory
[22:20] <charles720> i read it can cause trouble.
[22:21] <holstein> charles720: you can add and edit an xorg.conf.. if you have one that used to work, you could use it to get started
[22:21] <holstein> however.. you probably want..
[22:21] <holstein> !ati | charles720
[22:22] <neorpheus_> haha "matrox cards" do those even exist anymore?
[22:22] <charles720> its neither nor
[22:22] <charles720> sadly
[22:23] <charles720> its VIA
[22:23] <charles720> but i read that there is a unichrome package that might work
[22:23] <holstein> charles720: i have never had much luck passing 3d to a via chip.. i did use an official driver from via for ubuntu 8.04 that worked well
[22:23] <neorpheus_> isnt via usually S3 unichrome
[22:23] <charles720> thing is, i am running i think 12.04 atm cause the 13.10 kept crashin
[22:23] <holstein> charles720: the driver is in the kernel AFAIK.. its working now, and is either meeting your needs or not
[22:24] <charles720> yeah read that somewhere
[22:24] <charles720> atm i am trying to get my head around this
[22:24] <holstein> charles720: you read it here.. its in the kernel. you dont need to add it
[22:24] <holstein> what did i do? i used the vesa driver and got rid of the hardware ASAP
[22:25] <charles720> its an old laptop i use to get used to linux. as i said, its been a while and i am getting curious again ^^
[22:25] <holstein> charles720: its really this simple.. VIA has not provided you a driver to use the linux operating system and support all the features.. you can ask them for one, or try some of the ones around the web, but its hit & miss
[22:25] <charles720> k
[22:26] <holstein> charles720: nothing is preventing you from using linux on it. you can use the vesa driver is the openchrome one is crashing on your hardware with 13.10
[22:26] <charles720> but how do i try them now that the graphic stuff in done in the kernel
[22:26] <holstein> !nomodeset
[22:26] <holstein> thats an easy way, from a live CD, to test
[22:26] <charles720> tried nomodeset, didnt work
[22:26] <holstein> charles720: try what? you can add an xorg.conf
[22:26] <charles720> might do that
[22:26] <charles720> atm its blank
[22:27] <holstein> charles720: that is the way to do what you are trying to do
[22:27] <charles720> on the 13.10 the x -configure did not work
[22:27] <charles720> cause it couldnt detect the screens proper and soforth
[22:27] <holstein> charles720: if nomodeset didnt address the issue, then, i would say its something else.. bad ISO.. etc
[22:27] <charles720> hmm
[22:27] <charles720> but the livecd is a good hint
[22:27] <charles720> the 13.10 didnt even let me try xubuntu
[22:27] <holstein> charles720: xconfigure wont work if the driver support is buggy.. but, with the vesa driver forced with an xorg.conf file, all should be wel
[22:27] <charles720> but the 12.04 worked straigth away
[22:28] <holstein> charles720: those are different kernels
[22:28] <charles720> yeah
[22:28] <charles720> thx guys
[22:28] <holstein> charles720: that is what im saying could legitimately be the cause of the black screen.. though, i would test the iso, since nomodeset should get 13.10 booting
[22:29] <charles720> was booting from usb
[22:29] <charles720> maybe it got corrupted when i converted from iso to img
[22:29] <holstein> charles720: liveCD = live USB.. same iso, i assume
[22:30] <holstein> charles720: test the media and make certain it works.. take it to well supported hardware and see if the stick boots
[22:30] <charles720> good point
[22:30] <holstein> charles720: should be no need to convert from iso to img
[22:30] <charles720> it said so in the ubuntu help i need to convert for bootable usb
[22:31] <charles720> wondered
[22:31] <holstein> charles720: i say so, right here.. this is xubuntu help.. no need to convert
[22:31] <holstein> !info unetbootin
[22:31] <charles720> must have slipt past my eyes
[22:31] <holstein> you can use that, or one of the tools that create a bootable stick
[22:31] <holstein> OR, AFAIK, these days *all* the iso's can be copied with dd straight to the stick
[22:31] <charles720> ah ok
[22:32] <holstein> !md5 | charles720 this is how to confirm the sum of the image
[22:32] <charles720> then i might give the 13.10 another shot with a stick
[22:32] <holstein> but, how you make the stick is up to you to sort out.. you can, as suggested, take it to a well supported machine and see that it boots
[22:33] <neorpheus_> yay, i finally got my skype fixed. turns out that pulse audio was looking at the wrong usb device for a microphone, thanks so much for the help skuld
[22:33] <holstein> pavucontrol is handy neorpheus_
[22:34] <neorpheus_> holstein,  isnt that the panel applet?
[22:34] <holstein> anyways.. you got skype "configured".. not "fixed"
[22:34] <holstein> !info pavucontrol
[22:36] <charles720> k thx, gotta run, later
[23:45] <oscalation> im having troubles with my hdd not working, does xubuntu have any tools on the live cd to inspect, manage, or do something with it to try and fix it?
[23:46] <neorpheus> sorry i cant be more help but im pretty sure theres stuff in USC to view the hdd smart data
[23:47] <neorpheus> as for fixing partitions and the like i would just say to use gparted, but i wouldnt recomend using it unless you are comfortable with the posibility of losing data
[23:48] <oscalation> neorpheus i dont think i can install anything as it cant read/write to the drive
[23:48] <oscalation> does xubuntu have disk utility that has the smart disk check like normal ubuntu?
[23:48] <neorpheus> im not certain if anything like that comes preinstalled, give me a second and ill check for you
[23:49] <oscalation> neorpheus ty so much
[23:50] <krytarik> oscalation: You -can- install stuff in a Live system too, just not endlessly much.
[23:51] <krytarik> oscalation: Regardless of that, you may be better of using something like this: http://www.sysresccd.org/
[23:51] <oscalation> krytarik: ah ok didnt knwo that
[23:51] <krytarik> *off
[23:51] <neorpheus> thanks krytarik i thought you could but i was unsure of myself
[23:58] <David-A> oscalation: if you don't have Disk Utility in the program menu in the live-cd session, try search for Disk Utility or palimpsest in the software center.
[23:58] <David-A> oscalation: or if you like the terminal, there is smartctl