[06:49] <dholbach> good morning
[07:29] <dpm> morning all
[08:35] <JamesTait> Good morning all, happy Friday and happy Blood Donor Day! :-D
[08:39] <dholbach> JamesTait, happy friday to you too
[08:39]  * dholbach hasn't donated blood in ages
[08:40]  * JamesTait neither.
[08:40] <JamesTait> I really should do something about that.
[08:40] <dholbach> yeah
[08:40]  * JamesTait looks up the next donor session locally.
[08:40] <dholbach> the last time was as a student :-P
[08:42] <JamesTait> Ah, next Sunday, less than a mile away.
[08:42] <JamesTait> That'll do.
[10:08] <Laney> I've been on a study donating every 8 weeks
[10:08] <Laney> the usual interval is 16
[10:08] <Laney> but last time (maybe the 5th 8-week donation) my iron was below the level so I got denied :(
[10:12] <gusch> om26er: would be nice if you could review this https://code.launchpad.net/~schwann/gallery-app/gallery-autopilot-toolbar-buttons-fix/+merge/169379
[10:17] <zsombi> dmp: just answered on your question: http://askubuntu.com/questions/306056/how-to-detect-whether-an-app-is-running-on-a-mobile-device-or-on-the-desktop/308096
[10:32] <aquarius> dpm, hrm, what are the differing behaviours?
[10:35] <aquarius> I am extremely sceptical of apps which want to know whether they're on a phone or not and act differently :)
[10:36] <dpm> aquarius, after a few days I've come to realize that they're mostly related to size, so when the support for different layouts lands on the SDK I think this should be sorted. Still, I'd like to open the app's window with a bigger size if it's started from the desktop, so I guess I'll still need to detect the screen size somehow
[10:36] <aquarius> right -- that's adapting based on screen size, not on device type :)
[10:37] <t1mp> dpm: you can set a fixed window size for desktop, on phone it automatically opens full-screen
[10:37] <t1mp> aquarius: +1
[10:37] <dpm> aha, I didn't know that!
[10:37] <aquarius> I *think* that if you set a window size, the phone just ignores it anyway, so a window size is only desktopish
[10:37] <aquarius> ha! t1mp is both a quicker typist and more knowledgeable than I :)
[10:38] <dpm> that's a very useful bit of wisdom, I'm glad I asked another question and I learnt that!
[10:38] <aquarius> note that deciding on your initial window size on a desktop is hard by itself, unless you're prepared to either be clever, screw high-dpi users, or screw netbook users :)
[10:38] <dpm> screw them all
[10:39] <t1mp> if our grid-unit size is different on high-dpi then using gu's to define the window dimensions should work
[10:39] <t1mp> note the 'if'
[10:39] <aquarius> t1mp, ya. the "if" is very very "if", there
[10:40] <aquarius> since I don't think we're adapting gu for desktop devices at all atm?
[10:41] <t1mp> aquarius: actually, we may be doing that http://developer.ubuntu.com/api/ubuntu-12.10/qml/mobile/resolution-independence.html
[10:41] <t1mp> it is explicitly mentioned there :)
[10:41] <t1mp> I never tested it though
[10:41] <t1mp> I don't have a high-dpi screen and phone is priority now for the sdk
[10:42] <aquarius> hm. I do believe that that list is guidance about what *should* be happening rather than what actually *is* happening ;)
[10:42] <aquarius> not that that's a complaint; as you say, phone is priority, and I don't have highdpi either :)
[10:42] <dpm> aquarius, btw, I've been doing some more work on the QR code scanner, and I've also come to realize that the JavaScript scanning library does indeed have a performance penalty when processing hi-res images (e.g. 20s to scan a code vs 1s in the C++ plugin). So I either scale all pictures taken from the phone to a lower resolution before sending them to the JS scanning library, or use the C++ plugin -> https://lists.launchpad.net/qreator-discuss/msg00
[10:42] <dpm> 088.html
[10:42] <t1mp> yeah, so in the future, high-dpi should automatically work fine ;)
[10:42] <aquarius> t1mp, yes :)
[10:42] <aquarius> dpm, interesting.
[10:43] <aquarius> dpm, me, personally, I'd downscale. Avoid C++ at all costs ;)
[10:43] <gusch> om26er: jnkins approved already ;)
[10:43] <t1mp> aquarius, dpm for image processing I'd use c++ instead of JS
[10:44] <t1mp> for performance
[10:44] <dpm> aquarius, on the other hand, I can consider the C++ plugin as a black box that does the magic. I'm really not interested in how the scanning is done if it works, most of the work I put in the code is in the UI/UX anyway, and that's QML
[10:44] <aquarius> t1mp, that's because you think that performing faster is more important than easy distribution. Which is a fair thing to think. I do not think it ;)
[10:44] <t1mp> a c++ plug-in for qml of course
[10:45] <dpm> t1mp, yeah, that's how I did it, with a plugin. I'm testing both options: pure JS or a separate package with a C++ plugin for qml
[10:45] <aquarius> "branch this and run it" is so much easier than "branch this, make sure you've got the dependencies, cmake, make, make install --prefix=build, run it as qmlscene ./build/exe/whatever"...
[10:45] <t1mp> aquarius: we *should* have an awesome packaging system that takes care of everything :)
[10:45] <dpm> https://launchpad.net/~qreator-hackers/+archive/qreator-experimental
[10:45] <aquarius> t1mp, indeed we should. Given that we currently do not... ;-)
[10:45] <t1mp> aquarius: that may be another thing that should work fine in the future :) I'm not an expert on packaging
[10:46] <om26er> gusch, approved. I used that approach for a core-app as well. But then I changed that to what you were doing in the gallery-app.. so I guess we really need that issue fixed in the SDK
[10:46] <t1mp> aquarius: I don't want to tell people to "branch" this, but "go to this website and click the button" or "apt-get install my-awesome-app"
[10:46] <aquarius> (also, I wonder if emscripten'ed and asm.js things are faster in qml's JS engine?)
[10:46] <gusch> om26er: thx - and yes ...
[10:47] <t1mp> aquarius: we have a "run on device" in qtcreator that automatically compiles c++ code and installs it.
[10:47] <aquarius> t1mp, absolutely. But then it'll be "go to this website and click the button *corresponding to your architecture*", which is dead annoying. (Agreed on "install it from the Dash" being easy, btu that's not up and running yet)
[10:48] <dpm> t1mp, do you have any idea why the issue mentioned in "Caveats" on https://lists.launchpad.net/qreator-discuss/msg00088.html is happening?
[10:48] <dpm> t1mp, the actual code is simply defining a toolbar action, not sure why it's not working: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~dpm/qreator/touch-scanner/view/head:/qreator-touch.qml#L95
[10:50] <aquarius> (also, anyone who wants to hack on qreator, even if they just want to tweak the UI, or replace a couple of images, needs to be able to compile it if bits are in C++. But... I've had this argument lots before :))
[10:51] <t1mp> dpm: I don't know, I never saw the issue before
[10:51] <t1mp> dpm: can you reproduce it in a simpler program?
[10:52] <dpm> t1mp, I can try, but probably not until the weekend
[10:52] <t1mp> ok
[10:56] <t1mp> dpm:
[10:56] <t1mp>             // FIXME: this property seems to have a weird effect: when set to
[10:56] <t1mp>             // true, the tab contents are always visible, also when other tabs
[10:56] <t1mp>             // are loaded
[10:56] <t1mp> yeah, Tab currently has visible: active
[10:56] <t1mp>             //visible: root.debugMode? true : false
[10:56] <t1mp> so if you override that, the automatic visibility of the Tab (and its page) breaks.
[10:57] <t1mp> visible: active && root.debugMode may do what you want
[10:57] <t1mp> hmm.. that will still have the tab listed in the header, so probably not what you want
[10:58] <t1mp> it may be nice to use Tab.visible to determine whether the tab appears in the header
[10:58] <dpm> t1mp, aha, yeah, that was something else I wanted to ask you. Is there any plan to make tabs "hideable", or is it simply something I should not do?
[10:59] <t1mp> no plans
[10:59] <t1mp> if you can think of a use case, file a bug report to request the feature. I don't mind having that feature
[10:59] <t1mp> whether you 'should not do' it is I think a question for design
[11:00] <dpm> t1mp, my use case is that I want to use the extra tab to output debug messages. Or is there an alternative to show debug messages when running on a device?
[11:01] <t1mp> I don't know
[11:01] <t1mp> jppiiroinen: ^ ?
[11:01] <t1mp> bzoltan1: ^
[11:02] <dpm> t1mp, ah, I see there is already a bug for it: bug 1161363
[11:02] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1161363 in Ubuntu UI Toolkit "[tabs] Tabs component visible property stopped working" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1161363
[11:05] <dpm> commented on that one with my use case
[11:05] <t1mp> dpm: no, that's different. that is about the visible of Tabs, not of an individual tab
[11:06] <dpm> t1mp, ah, I read that he mentioned individual tabs as well, but you're right, that would deserve a separate bug
[11:20] <Naga> how to find whether there is some ubuntu app already exists for some purpose?
[11:21] <bzoltan1> dpm: There is no output forwarding from the device to the QtC right now. It takes a little tweaking .. not impossible, but not done yet
[11:21] <dpm> bzoltan1, ok, thanks. I'll continue with my debug tab hack for now.
[11:27] <dpm> Naga, I'd recommend checking https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Collection
[11:28] <dpm> Naga, https://plus.google.com/communities/111350780270925540549 is also a good place to check for existing apps
[11:34] <Naga> dpm, the list seems to be small!! Is that updated one? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Collection
[11:35] <dpm> Naga, the list is growing and up to date. With your help we can make it bigger ;)
[11:35] <Naga> Sure..
[11:36] <Naga> am looking in ubuntu dvlpmnt for last 2 days. hopefully, let me make it bigger.. taller.. stronger... :p
[11:38] <dpm> :)
[11:39] <Naga> I saw it supports app in c++. So, can't it load the existing apps written in c++, straight away?
[12:06] <kalikiana> Kaleo, ping
[12:06] <kalikiana> weekly
[12:30] <gusch> victorp: can you please again check https://code.launchpad.net/~schwann/qtubuntu-camera/camera-torch-support/+merge/168468 ?
[12:31] <victorp> gusch, sure - I guess I need to flash first the latest image?
[12:31] <gusch> victorp: better to do so
[13:17] <AskUbuntu> Ubuntu for arm processor (Raspberry) | http://askubuntu.com/q/308164
[13:41] <om26er> boiko, Hi!
[13:42] <boiko> hey om26er
[13:42] <om26er> boiko, I fixed the tests, please review. https://code.launchpad.net/~om26er/phone-app/fix_autopilot_suite/+merge/169426
[13:42] <boiko> om26er: awesome! thanks a lot!
[13:43] <om26er> boiko, I am skipping one test there but I'll fix that after this branch gets in... Also I will test these on the phones so you should expect a second branch afterwards.
[13:44] <boiko> om26er: nice! ok, I'll give it a try in a couple minutes
[14:46] <om26er> gusch, hey! what is really up with the gallery tests I wonder. is that happening video recording branch ?
[14:47] <victorp_> gusch, /usr/lib/arm-linux-gnueabihf/qt5/bin/qmlscene: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/arm-linux-gnueabihf/qt5/plugins/mediaservice/libaalcamera.so: undefined symbol: _ZN12SharedSignal8instanceEv
[14:47] <victorp_> still not working
[14:48] <gusch> om26er: I did not update the autopilot tests for the changes in the code - now works
[14:48] <gusch> victorp_: strange - I'll test again - thx
[15:05] <nicolacorti> Hi
[15:08] <nicolacorti> Is there anyone?
[15:24] <dpm> hi nicolacorti, there is plenty of people. If you've got an actual question to ask and if someone can answer it, we'll be happy to help :)
[15:26] <nicolacorti> Yes i've got
[15:26] <nicolacorti> I'm looking for more information about PyGTK
[15:27] <nicolacorti> but i think that http://www.pygtk.org is down right now
[15:27] <nicolacorti> is it true?
[15:35] <t1mp> nicolacorti: www.pygtk.org doesn't work for me
[15:38] <t1mp> nicolacorti: for ubuntu app development there is a bunch of information on http://developer.ubuntu.com/, but no PyGTK
[15:39] <t1mp> dpm: on http://developer.ubuntu.com/ under (1), quickly is mentioned, but there is no quickly on the page that it links to.
[15:40] <t1mp> dpm: and the link to "quickly" at the bottom of the page under "resources" is broken
[15:45] <dpm> t1mp, thanks for the heads up, I'll fix that
[15:46] <nicolacorti> Thank you anyway, i've downloaded python-pygtk2-doc package
[15:48] <dpm> nicolacorti, if you want to develop for Ubuntu we recommend using the Ubuntu SDK at www.developer.ubuntu.com/get-started - but if you still want to use Python + GTK you can also go to http://python-gtk-3-tutorial.readthedocs.org/en/latest/
[15:49] <t1mp> nicolacorti: note that PyGTK is currently not supported for Ubuntu Touch
[15:52] <nicolacorti> Ok thank you
[16:48] <boiko> om26er: hey, just tried yoru branch, but tests are failing, it seems selecting a button of the toolbar is broken
[16:48] <boiko> om26er: but the tab switching is working fine
[16:49] <boiko> om26er: I guess the toolbar thing might be related to what gusch was telling earlier today
[16:49] <gusch> boiko om26er tim changed the toolbar implementation yesterday
[16:50] <om26er> ouch
[16:50] <om26er> boiko, can you pastebin the logs
[16:51] <boiko> om26er: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5765281/
[16:51] <om26er> gusch, how did you worked around that ?
[16:51] <om26er> boiko, yep that's what gusch was seeing
[16:53] <gusch> om26er boiko my fix is here https://code.launchpad.net/~schwann/gallery-app/gallery-autopilot-toolbar-buttons-fix/+merge/169379
[16:54] <gusch> I now use the select_many on a sub-tree
[16:54] <gusch> a new feature of autopilot since about 3 weeks
[16:54] <boiko> gusch: that's clever and probably more reliable
[16:55] <boiko> om26er: so, want me to approve that branch and fix the toolbar button problem in a separate MR?
[16:55] <om26er> boiko, yeah that sounds fare
[16:55] <boiko> om26er: ok, I'll approve your changes then
[16:55] <t1mp> boiko gusch om26er my changes shouldn't break anything
[16:56] <t1mp> what broke?
[16:56] <boiko> t1mp: autopilot tests
[16:56] <om26er> t1mp, though it would be really cool if we be able to assign objectNames to action items ;)
[16:57] <t1mp> om26er: you can assign an objectName to anything right?
[16:57] <om26er> t1mp, yep, works for pretty much everything
[16:57] <boiko> ... or to get the so called helper functions to interact with UITK components in autopilot
[16:58] <gusch> me wants this - relly wants this ^ ;)
[16:58] <boiko> :)
[16:58] <t1mp> I think jppiiroinen was working on that
[16:58] <gusch> was?!?
[16:59] <t1mp> jppiiroinen: ^ ?
[16:59] <t1mp> hmm its 8pm in finland, I guess it is eow for him
[17:01] <t1mp> bzoltan: ^ you know stuff :)
[17:01] <bzoltan> I am here
[17:01] <bzoltan> what is the question
[17:01] <t1mp> 18:57:33 < boiko> ... or to get the so called helper functions to interact with UITK components in autopilot
[17:02] <t1mp> is someone working on that?
[17:02] <bzoltan> dunno
[17:04] <gusch> maybe Kaleo knows about the helper functions to interact with UITK components in autopilot ?
[17:04] <t1mp> is it the "abstraction layer" mentioned in https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/sdk-qa ?
[17:11] <boiko> t1mp: I think it is
[17:12] <boiko> om26er: I'll fix the toolbar button thing
[17:20] <gusch> om26er: do you have some spare time?
[17:26] <om26er> gusch, what is it about ?
[17:26] <om26er> boiko, cool ;)
[17:27] <gusch> om26er: adding a test, that calls the "edit -> auto enhance" in the full view
[17:27] <gusch> om26er: no need to rush - but if you are busy for a while, I'll do that
[17:28] <om26er> gusch, about that, its  one of those tests which I remember a few months back when I was writing autopilot tests for the gallery, I didn't knew what change happened on auto enhance in the autopilot vis window
[17:29] <om26er> gusch, I'll do that
[17:30] <boiko> om26er: https://code.launchpad.net/~boiko/phone-app/fix_getting_tool_buttons/+merge/169507
[17:30] <Kaleo> gusch: I know that a few weeks ago I gave them to jppiiroinen to implement
[17:30] <Kaleo> gusch: no more
[17:30] <Kaleo> gusch: (just after the sprint in fact)
[17:30] <gusch> om26er: well - the ActiviIndicator will be visible, but only for a short time (not reliable to test)
[17:30] <Kaleo> sorry
[17:31] <gusch> om26er: maybe test if afterwads the undo is enabled
[17:32] <gusch> Kaleo: let's ask jppiiroinen next week
[17:32] <gusch> om26er: maybe test if afterwads the undo is enabled
[17:32] <om26er> ouch system crashed
[17:32] <om26er> *unity got new bugs*
[17:32] <gusch> there's a reason I use KDE :p
[17:32] <om26er> gusch, yes sure, I am heading out now but I'll have a branch ready in a few hours
[17:33] <gusch> om26er: I'll check it on monday - no need to rush
[17:33] <gusch> it's just a nice to have
[17:34] <om26er> gusch, there is one more, If there is only one photo in the gallery and you open the photo and you delete it, you kind of get stuck there, the back button won't work
[17:35] <om26er> too much "you" :D
[17:36] <gusch> om26er: https://bugs.launchpad.net/gallery-app/+bug/1131802
[17:36] <ubot2`> Ubuntu bug 1131802 in gallery-app "Deleting the last photo leaves a black gallery" [High,New]
[17:37] <gusch> om26er: and that's the reason I want the test https://bugs.launchpad.net/gallery-app/+bug/1180345
[17:37] <ubot2`> Ubuntu bug 1180345 in gallery-app "Auto enhance crashes gallery app and deletes photo" [Undecided,New]
[17:37] <gusch> om26er: but I wasn'
[17:38] <gusch> om26er: but I wasn't sure if that's really teh case (but now that I see the bug...)
[17:38] <gusch> om26er: seems like I'll have to fix a bug ;)
[17:38] <om26er> oh look I in the bug report as well
[17:38] <om26er> *I am
[17:38] <om26er> gusch, yep, you got a new one
[17:39] <om26er> gusch, is that something to be tested with autopilot so it doesn't regress in future ?
[17:40] <gusch> om26er: correct
[17:42] <gusch> om26er: if you want to push me, then add a test for https://bugs.launchpad.net/gallery-app/+bug/1131802 as well ;)
[17:42] <ubot2`> Ubuntu bug 1131802 in gallery-app "Deleting the last photo leaves a black gallery" [High,Confirmed]
[17:45] <om26er> gusch, sure...
[18:11] <gusch> boiko: you eagerly wanted to review? https://code.launchpad.net/~schwann/gallery-app/gallery-mediafactory-unittests/+merge/169514
[18:12] <boiko> gusch: yep, I can take that one :)
[20:07] <odra> Hello :D
[20:08] <om26er> Hey!
[20:49] <mhall119> http://www.jonobacon.org/2013/06/14/the-ubuntu-app-developer-cookbook-announced/ More goodies for App Developers being added to developer.ubuntu.com
[20:55] <AskUbuntu> Do you could use python in ubuntu phone? | http://askubuntu.com/q/308332
[22:51] <odra> Is it just me or this is a mobile only channel?
[23:23] <AskUbuntu> where to find Qt5 downloaded pack in my 13.04 | http://askubuntu.com/q/308373


[12:18] <Balaams_Miracle> I would like to translate Museeq to Dutch, but for that, i will need lupdate. Does anybody know in which (meta?)package i can find that? (assuming it exists in our repos)
[12:18] <Balaams_Miracle> !info lupdate
[12:18] <ubotu> Package lupdate does not exist in feisty, feisty-seveas
[12:20] <Riddell> if it's not in launchpad translations, you'd need to ask the developers of the app in question
[12:22] <Balaams_Miracle> Riddell, i only need lupdate, which is supposed to extract translatable strings from a source file, and dump those stings into a .tr file, making it possible to translate them using qt3-linguist
[12:22] <Balaams_Miracle> As i understand it, it should be part of some qt dev package, but the problem is finding out which one
[12:23] <Riddell> packages.ubuntu.com
[12:27] <Balaams_Miracle> No such luck, but i did manage to find something at LP, gotta figure out if that's really what i need because this one is called pylupdate, i have no idea if that would do the exact same thing as lupdate
[12:29] <Riddell> http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_contents.pl?word=lupdate&searchmode=searchfiles&case=insensitive&version=feisty&arch=i386
[12:29] <Riddell> libqt4-dev
[12:33] <Balaams_Miracle> I've been told by someone that qt4 stuff won't work with qt3 sources, but i do not know if that's true. But even if it is, do you recon this qt4-version of lupdate will create qt3-compatible .tr files?
[12:39] <Riddell> I've no idea I'm afraid, I've never used qt's translation format
[12:41] <Balaams_Miracle> I'd rather us .po myself, but i can't choose for dealstorm (the museek/nicotine dev)
[12:52] <mhb> Riddell: splendid, restricted-manager-kde hit the archives
[12:52] <Riddell> blamo
[12:52] <mhb> Riddell: thanks for the help and mentoring! :o) and now let me be the first to welcome the bugreports
[12:53] <Riddell> thanks for coding!
[12:56] <mhb> Riddell: a docstring from onboard: """ Very messy class holds the keyboard widget. (...)"""
[12:57] <Riddell> encouraging
[12:59] <mhb> Riddell: indeed. I am still not convinced which solution is the best...
[01:03] <Riddell> mhb: out of which options?
[01:06] <mhb> Riddell: improve kvkbd (perhaps port to Qt4), build a simple kcontrol module for it OR restructure onboard to have a separate common/gnome part and then write a kde frontend
[01:07] <mhb> Riddell: what are the features that you like on onboard that much?
[01:07] <Riddell> macros, one button keyboard
[01:08] <Riddell> plus it looks better
[01:10] <mhb> Riddell: on the other hand, kvkbd loads the localised keyboard on first startup, whereas onboard segfaults on first startup (it could be me, or my locale, I dunno)
[01:10] <mhb> and the appearance of kvkbd can be changed
[01:14] <Riddell> I'm sure a bug in onboard can be fixed
[01:14] <Riddell> the appearane on kvkdb can't really be changed, it just uses qbuttons, onboard uses svgs
[01:17] <mhb> Riddell: also, the time is running out ... FF in 9 days
[01:18] <mhb> I really don't know...
[01:20] <Riddell> there's not actually a lot of code in onboard, it shouldn't be hard to port
[01:23] <mhb> 2000 gtk-ridden badly documented messy lines ... the number's not that high, but those multipliers are scary :o)
[01:23] <mhb> we'll see in the morning, goodnight all
[01:24] <Riddell> sleep well
[01:55] <jjesse> night mhb
[03:14] <bddebian> Heya
[03:20] <innovati> hey there
[03:20] <bddebian> Hello innovati
[03:20] <innovati> what's shakin tonight?
[03:21] <bddebian> Nuttin' You?
[03:21] <innovati> hahah not too much
[03:21] <innovati> listening to LoveStoned......that's about it
[03:25] <ScottK> Hi there bddebian.
[03:26] <bddebian> Heya ScottK
[03:26] <bddebian> What the hell is LoveStoned?
[03:28] <innovati> oh uh......deinitely *not* Justin Timberlake........
[03:28] <bddebian> Titney Spews?
[03:28] <innovati> I like from ~2:40 onward: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgu9tUmUYfo
[03:28] <bddebian> err Brittany Spears? :-)
[05:07] <ScottK> Why is restricted manager IN restricted?  Surely it's FOSS
[05:08] <robotgeek> ScottK: maybe it contains restricted firmware etc?
[05:08] <ScottK> Don't think it does.
[05:08] <ScottK> It just manages what you have.
[05:10] <robotgeek> well, it is all .py files :)
[05:10] <ScottK> Yeah.
[05:10] <ScottK> mhb: Why is restricted-manager IN restricted?
[05:10] <ScottK> He wrote the KDE one.
[05:10] <ScottK> He's also sleeping.
[05:10] <robotgeek> well, it is kinda useless without the restricted files, maybe if someone did not have restricted in there, it might not work (dependency management)
[05:11] <robotgeek> apt-get enabling foo not required
[05:11] <ScottK> I'm be curious why.
[05:39] <nixternal> OK, who here has been doing PyQt4 work extensively? :)
[05:43] <ScottK> You
[05:44] <ScottK> 'cause I know you've been working really hard on pinentry-qt4.
[05:51] <nixternal> bah pinentry-qt4 and its mess
[05:53] <ScottK> You're gonna want it for kde4.
[05:58] <nixternal> I am switching to windows
[05:58] <nixternal> heh, I tried to come up with another DE, but I couldn't
[05:58] <nixternal> Gnome and Xfce just hit my head, and I brain dumped
[05:59] <robotgeek> i am about to try the kde4 live cd (suse, though)
[06:05] <nixternal> well I was going to tell robotgeek, that I heard it was kind of bad right now
[06:09] <ScottK> I'm guessing he'll know for himself shortly.
[06:30] <robotgeek> no gutsy tribe 3 for ppc? (i know it is not supported :) )
[06:33] <robotgeek> nvm, found here: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/ports/daily/current/
[06:35] <nixternal> is there a tribe 3 for ppc?
[06:36] <nixternal> I have a ppc sittng here that I decided not to get up and running because we were supposedly dropping support
[06:37] <ScottK> Dropping "Support", but not support.
[06:37] <nixternal> hey, thanks!
[06:37] <nixternal> for confusing me :)
[06:38] <ScottK> It's there, AFAIK, but if it's broken, they aren't going to lift a finger over it.
[06:38] <robotgeek> sigh, nobody is seeding, even.
[06:39] <nixternal> ahhh
[06:39] <nixternal> ya, nobody hardly ever seeds the .torrents
[06:39] <nixternal> I just download from the local uni now at like 2mbs
[06:39] <robotgeek> nixternal: well, it is the daily current, so i would guess its okay
[06:40] <robotgeek> nixternal: lucky, i only got 700 K/s
[06:40] <nixternal> I haven't heard of it breaking anything just yet
[06:40] <nixternal> 700k/s from ubuntu.com?
[06:40] <nixternal> I am jealous!
[06:40] <robotgeek> yeah
[06:40] <robotgeek> 750K/s even . /me is happy for once
[06:41] <nixternal> ya, anything from *buntu.* would kill my machine if I got more than 200k/s
[06:41] <robotgeek> i was so happy with my univ net :) used to download iso's in about 6 minutes or so
[06:41] <robotgeek> and we did not even have a local mirror
[06:42] <robotgeek> they support(ed) redhat on campus, and i think were planning to dual boot
[06:42] <robotgeek> my upload sucks though
[06:43] <nixternal> ya, mine too
[06:45] <robotgeek> damn, all i want to do is try out kde4 :)
[06:45] <nixternal> hehe
[06:53] <nixternal> ooh, IBM now going to start selling Linux laptops..nice
[07:11] <nixternal> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIk4qTKmKzE
[07:11] <nixternal> haha
[10:26] <_StefanS_> kwwii_: nice suse colors in that background wallpaper 8-)
[10:54] <apachelogger> Oo
[10:54] <apachelogger> why keeps everyone thinking these are suse colors?
[10:55] <apachelogger> _StefanS_: I guess thoose are colors from the kubuntu logo
[10:55] <apachelogger> so you bascially said we have a suse logo :P
[11:00] <_StefanS_> apachelogger: yea, I know, i have joked with kwii before on that :)
[11:00] <_StefanS_> apachelogger: just thought they looked very alike
[11:00] <apachelogger> hm
[11:01] <apachelogger> maybe I should checkout suse some time
[11:01] <_StefanS_> apachelogger: I do occasionally, but it never work in a vm.
[11:01] <apachelogger> poor suse
[11:01] <_StefanS_> apachelogger: either the harddisks cannot be found, or it crashes later during boot.
[11:02] <_StefanS_> apachelogger: there's always something. Even on physical hardware using a VIA<EMAIL_ADDRESS>with epia ex board it still didn't work. Couldn't find my sata disk.
[11:04] <_StefanS_> so.. yes. Poor suse.
[11:20] <_StefanS_> apachelogger: what are you committing to KDE?
[11:20] <apachelogger> just some www patches
[11:23] <_StefanS_> uhm for konqy?
[11:28] <Duloup> Hello ! I'd like to know what is the recommended way to request a package update (kmymoney 0.8.6 in Gutsy and 0.8.7 in Debian unstable) ? Here on IRC or opening a bug in launchpad ?
[11:29] <Hobbsee> Duloup: greetings
[11:31] <Duloup> greetings Hobbsee (not a native english speaker not sure what to answer to this ;-) )
[11:31] <Hobbsee> :)
[11:31] <Hobbsee> greetings == hello
[11:32] <Hobbsee> Duloup: sync requested.  should be done in a few days :)
[11:32] <Duloup> thank you very much Hobbsee !
[11:33] <Hobbsee> no problem :
[11:33] <Hobbsee> )
[11:33] <Hobbsee> Duloup: here's always a good start, if people are talking.  they can always ask you to file a bug instead, if it'll take a bunch of work to do, or something
[11:35] <Duloup> ok
[11:39] <apachelogger> _StefanS_: for the websites
[11:39] <apachelogger> everyone always forgets the websites :(
[11:39] <apachelogger> poor kde-www
[11:42] <_StefanS_> oh :)
[11:42] <_StefanS_> true indeed
[11:44] <Riddell> kde.org needs a new hotspot for example
[11:46] <apachelogger> just, what is hotspot worthy right now?
[11:47] <Riddell> I was thinking kde patronship
[11:47] <Riddell> which does already have a logo
[11:48] <apachelogger> yeah, probably a good idea
[11:48] <apachelogger> omg
[01:25] <mhb> ScottK: it's completely free software, but I guess they are keeping it in restricted because some handlers contain links on proprietary firmware
[01:26] <mhb> ScottK: for example, the bcm43xx class wireless cards need a firmware file and the code contains an URL where you can download it
[03:37] <OculusAquilae> hi
[03:38] <ScottK> Hello.
[03:46] <OculusAquilae> Is bug #6306 still unfixed in gutsy. There seems to be a patch.
[03:47] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 6306 in kiosktool "Kiosk admin tool tries to login with root account " [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/6306
[03:48] <Riddell> OculusAquilae: it's fixed
[04:50] <bddebian> Heya
[04:57] <icefox> Are thier plans to package xdg-user-dirs (http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/xdg-user-dirs)?
[04:59] <icefox> it would be nice to have/use in kde4
[05:00] <apachelogger> nixternal: [ 25%]  Generating amarokconfig.h, amarokconfig.cpp
[05:01] <Hobbsee> mhb: i'm getting http://rafb.net/p/Giz8ba34.html in running r-m-kde, in the console.  the app doesnt seem to crash
[05:03] <mhb> Hobbsee: ah, yes. it's because you click where there's nothing defined. I forgot to catch it.
[05:04] <Hobbsee> :)
[05:04] <mhb> Hobbsee: it shouldn't be critical, though
[05:05] <Hobbsee> no, doesnt seem to be
[05:05] <Hobbsee> just thought it might be useful
[05:07] <mhb> Hobbsee: sure! Thanks for reporting it, I remember seeing it, I must have forgotten to fix it. I'll fix it soonish.
[05:07] <Hobbsee> :)
[05:22] <nosrednaekim> hey, what packages do I have to install to get kde4 working?
[05:24] <nosrednaekim> like which kde4 packages? I just have KDE4base installed (and -dev as well)
[05:24] <Hobbsee> kde4base, as said on kubuntu.org, i believe
[05:26] <nosrednaekim> hmm ok...
[05:27] <nosrednaekim> its says to install kde4base-dev (which I have installed)... but it still doesn't work.I'll try to see whats keeping it from running. I had alpha1 running fine.
[05:32] <nosrednaekim> ah I figured it out.. I had to have Xephyr export to display 2
[05:50] <apachelogger> dpkg-deb: building package `amarok2' in `../amarok2_2.0.0+svn693037-0ubuntu1_i386.deb'.
[05:51] <Riddell> awooga
[05:51] <Riddell> s/+/~/ in the version number
[05:51] <apachelogger> k
[06:05] <nixternal> Hobbsee: that guy will give you a headache
[06:10] <Hobbsee> nixternal: yeah.  he'll get a +q soon, i expect
[06:27] <Hobbsee> !grub
[06:27] <ubotu> grub is the default Ubuntu boot manager. Lost grub after installing windows: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RecoveringUbuntuAfterInstallingWindows - Making GRUB floppies & other GRUB howtos: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GrubHowto
[06:27] <serzholino> what is lpia?
[06:28] <serzholino> from topic
[06:28] <Riddell> new intel mobile architecture
[06:28] <serzholino> ah :)
[06:29] <serzholino> btw, threre were some topics in kde-core-devel about supporting qt/embedded in kdelibs
[06:30] <serzholino> and some preliminary support is alredy in kdelibs trunk
[06:30] <Riddell> this just needs someone who knows a bit about packaging and a lot of patience
[06:31] <nixternal> Riddell: what is that?
[06:32] <nixternal> ahh, I have been seeing a lot of the lpia uploads of late in gutsy
[06:32] <nixternal> now I know what it is :)
[06:33] <serzholino> Riddell: so, for lpia qt/x11 will be used?
[06:34] <Riddell> not by default, but it's nice to have it available
[06:34] <serzholino> yep
[06:35] <serzholino> i meant qt/x11 as opposed to qt/embedded
[06:37] <Riddell> yes
[06:52] <nixternal> Riddell: I take it you did the MIR for kvkbd?
[06:53] <Riddell> nixternal: no, I put it into universe
[06:53] <nixternal> I just got the "Accepted into Main" message
[06:53] <Riddell> (and only accepted it because of a bad command)
[06:53] <Riddell> it's in universe now
[07:22] <apachelogger> Riddell: master, master, what shall I do with the monster?
[07:22] <apachelogger> toss it up on revu?
[07:23] <Riddell> revu is down
[07:23] <Riddell> toss it up elsewhere
[07:25] <apachelogger> anything to obliqe!
[07:28] <mhb> oh my, why can't people write code with portability in mind :o)
[07:28] <mhb> also with basic sense of documentation
[07:38] <jjesse> but documentation is hard :)
[07:40] <mhb> jjesse: well, I meant the in-code documentation
[07:41] <mhb> jjesse: it wouldn't hurt the dev to describe in five words what the function does and where it is used
[07:43] <mhb> nixternal: around?
[07:43] <apachelogger> Riddell, nixternal: http://aplg.kollide.net/kubuntu/amarok2/
[07:44] <jjesse> mhb: grin that would be too difficult to actually say what something does
[07:47] <nixternal> wasabi mhb
[07:54] <mhb> nixternal: I'm starting a port of onboard to Qt4
[07:55] <mhb> nixternal: onboard is an on-screen keyboard
[07:56] <mhb> nixternal: if I don't fail (and I'm not planning to) one of the duo (kvkbd, onboard-qt) won't be necessary in main
[07:57] <mhb> nixternal: therefore, one of us will have his time wasted
[07:57] <nixternal> that is up to Riddell
[07:59] <mhb> nixternal: indeed. I just wanted to inform you about my task, so you don't feel bad about it
[08:00] <mhb> nixternal: I hope you're not angry at me.
[08:03] <nixternal> not at all..whatever the better solution is
[08:26] <Riddell> apachelogger: amarok 2 needs a copy of the LGPL
[08:26] <apachelogger> Riddell: for?
[08:26] <Riddell> for the files which are LGPL :)
[08:27] <apachelogger> we have lgpl files? Oo
[08:27] <Riddell> http://kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tmp/amarok-lgpl
[08:28] <apachelogger> omg!
[08:28] <apachelogger> so letz fix that
[08:28] <Riddell> apachelogger: git?
[08:29] <apachelogger> Riddell: I'm using git-svn
[08:29] <apachelogger> <-- browsing a lot in the logs to find a revision which caused a certain b0rkage
[08:29] <apachelogger> git is just awesome for this :D
[08:47] <pedahzur> Porting to LPIA?  Louisiana Private Investigator Association? Libertarian Party of Iowa? Label Printing Industries of America? Low Probability of Intercept Altimeter? Or would it be, as I assume, Low Power on Intel Architecture?  How about adding this link to that question: http://www.intel.com/technology/systems/lpia/ :)
[08:48] <apachelogger> Riddell: fixed
[08:48] <pedahzur> Cool.
[09:04] <Riddell> apachelogger: that seems to quite reliably freeze my computer
[09:05] <apachelogger> Riddell: the building or amarok?
[09:05] <Riddell> although I don't have any sound on this computer
[09:05] <Riddell> apachelogger: running amarok 2
[09:05] <apachelogger> well
[09:05] <apachelogger> there are 2 issues I made up which can freeze amarok
[09:06] <apachelogger> using phonon without hardware mixing
[09:06] <apachelogger> because dmix + phonon only works with recent alsa
[09:06] <Riddell> well as I say I don't have any sound
[09:06] <apachelogger> and running the intel driver (like me) crashes at least this snapshot
[09:06] <apachelogger> Riddell: a guy in #kubuntu-de is running it quite well
[09:06] <apachelogger> can even play mp3s
[09:10] <Riddell> apachelogger: want me to upload?
[09:13] <apachelogger> well, if nixternal got no objections
[09:13] <Riddell> why might nixternal object?
[09:13] <apachelogger> no idea, he asked for the package ^_^
[09:13] <apachelogger> Riddell: maybe we should mention that this snapshot is not supported by upstream in anyway?
[09:14] <apachelogger> ...in the long description
[09:14] <Riddell> it does
[09:14] <Riddell> well, close enough, I can add it
[09:14] <Riddell> hi Lure
[09:15] <apachelogger> Riddell: yeah, please
[09:15] <apachelogger> then it's ready for upload I think
[09:16] <mhb> Riddell: remember when we were solving the "guidance apps are not translated in systemsettings" bug? It seems to be back.
[09:16] <Riddell> grump
[09:16] <Riddell> mhb: remind me again after feature freeze
[09:40] <hunger> Will kubuntu use tracker?
[09:40] <hunger> ubuntu seems to be doing so... and it would be kind of strange to have to seperate systems.
[09:41] <stdin> hunger: it will use strigi
[09:41] <stdin> afaik
[09:41] <hunger> stdin: That is what I heared as well. Too bad:-(
[09:41] <hunger> So I'll probably end up indexing everything twice:-(
[09:42] <Riddell> yes, it's a bad situation
[09:42] <stdin> all ubuntu needs is a strigi client and problem solved :p
[09:42] <Riddell> it has one
[09:42] <hunger> stdin: Yeap, but strigi is from KDE, they can't have that in gnome:-(
[09:42] <stdin> dose it have the same functions too?
[09:42] <hunger> stdin: The other way round is true as well of course.
[09:42] <stdin> hunger: why?
[09:43] <hunger> stdin: NIH syndrom:-(
[09:43] <hunger> stdin: plus the two desktops have widely different architectures and goals. What works well for one usually does not for the other.
[09:43] <stdin> as long as the daemon doesn't depend on any kde/qt libs and it has a client that is written in gtk, then that would work great
[09:44] <stdin> true
[09:44] <mhb> hunger: kubuntu and ubuntu doesn't have different goals, AFAIK
[09:44] <stdin> we need a nice unified indexer
[09:44] <hunger> mhb: Yeap, but gnome and kde does.
[09:44] <ScottK> Based on the discussion on #ubuntu-devel, I don't think tracker is that indexer.
[09:45] <Riddell> not notably, there's no reason why kde and gnome can't share the same search engine
[09:45] <Riddell> ScottK: in which way?
[09:45] <ScottK> Lots of complaining it seems to me about how it bogs down your system
[09:45] <ScottK> And how it automatically makes copies of pictures and such.
[09:46] <Riddell> all indexers do
[09:46] <ScottK> OK.
[09:46] <hunger> Riddell: They should not duplicate the contents of the files IMHO.
[09:46] <ScottK> It just seemed to me that there wasn't a lot of positive said about it.
[09:46] <hunger> Riddell: Strigi does, that sucks.
[09:46] <Riddell> hunger: yes, both strigi and tracker are looking to stop that
[09:48] <hunger> Riddell: jos said space optimization was not even considered yet:-(
[09:49] <Riddell> hmm, he told me it was on the todo, but not for a few releases
[09:50] <hunger> Riddell: Yes, he said he'll start to think about once more important stuff is done.
[09:56] <ScottK> Strigi isn't going to be installed by default is it?
[09:58] <Riddell> it is at the moment
[09:58] <Riddell> but it's really unstable
[10:01] <mhb> you're not going to like me for the new kubuntu-meta bug, I'm afraid


[02:01] <asac> @time
[02:04] <fta> asac, still there?
[02:04] <fta> asac, 9 patches already for openkomodo :(
[02:47] <asac> fta: 9 patches?
[02:47] <fta> asac, yes, just to make the custom xul build
[02:47] <asac> you mean --with-libxul-sdk=... ?
[02:48] <fta> nope, not even that
[02:48] <asac> why are you trying to a do a custom xul build?
[02:48] <fta> because it's not possible otherwise
[02:49] <asac> make install alone doesnt work?
[02:49] <asac> i mean, building firefox without a system xul is possible too ;)
[02:49] <fta> they don't even have a confvar.sh
[02:50] <fta> they patched configure
[02:50] <asac> directly?
[02:50] <asac> or at least configure.in ;)?
[02:50] <fta> .in
[02:50] <asac> heh
[02:51] <asac> where is the openkomodo source?
[02:52] <fta> http://svn.openkomodo.com/repos/openkomodo/trunk/
[02:53] <asac> fta: what patches get applied?
[02:54] <fta> all
[02:54] <asac> all in patches-new and patches-official?
[02:54] <asac> well, http://svn.openkomodo.com/repos/openkomodo/trunk/mozilla/patches-new/
[02:54] <asac> there are patches
[02:54] <asac> and there are branch directories;)
[02:54] <fta> patches-new/ + patches-new/MOZILLA_1_9_1
[02:54] <asac> and patches-official?
[02:54] <fta> no
[02:54] <asac> thats garbage?
[02:55] <fta>         --official
[02:55] <fta>             build a clean unpatched mozilla or firefox
[02:55] <fta>             (Note: I don't trust that this is what you get. --TM)
[02:55] <asac> fta: doesnt it work with the fixed 1.9.1 xulrunner?
[02:55] <asac> i mean the one with the proper pyxpcom?
[02:56] <asac> let me get the full tree ;)
[02:57] <fta> no idea yet. i just want that thing to build & run before i try to break it with our xul
[02:57] <asac> fta: well. if thats just .py files i would go straight trying to run that with our xul ;)
[02:58] <asac> ok seems that they have native stuff though ;)
[02:58] <asac> a good first step would be to know what is supposed to come out of if
[02:58] <asac> ;)
[02:59] <fta> yes, that's why i'm doing it this way, i need a base
[02:59] <asac> i will download http://downloads.activestate.com/Komodo/releases/5.0.3/Komodo-Edit-5.0.3-2767-linux-libcpp6-x86.tar.gz now ;)
[03:00] <asac> 37m
[03:00] <asac> quite heavy weight ;) for the binary
[03:02] <asac> http://paste.ubuntu.com/109218/
[03:03] <asac> seems to have some chrom additions
[03:03] <asac> (and based on 1.8?)
[03:03] <asac> komodo.jar
[03:03] <asac> komodo.manifest
[03:03] <asac> xtk.jar
[03:03] <asac> xtk.manifest
[03:03] <asac> user-skins.rdf
[03:04] <asac> komododoc
[03:04] <asac> komododoc.manifest
[03:04] <asac> defaults/pref/komodo.js
[03:04] <asac> ;)
[03:05] <fta> d'oh: http://paste.ubuntu.com/109220/
[03:07] <asac> well on top the mozilla build failed
[03:07] <asac> that would explain the rest
[03:25] <fta> that stupid thing is rebuild everything
[03:25] <asac> nasty
[03:26] <asac> heh
[03:26] <asac> http://paste.ubuntu.com/109222/
[03:26] <asac> look at laste 3 lines ;)
[03:27] <asac> 0.3
[03:27] <asac> ;)
[03:27] <fta> lol
[03:27] <asac> the magic time
[03:27] <asac> to sleep before exit
[03:49] <fta> holly s*t, they run something like make -f Makefile.ref clean all distbin BUILD_OPT=1 MOZ_OBJDIR=/src/bzr/build-area/openkomodo-5.1.0~a1~svn20090124r2851/build-tree/openkomodo/mozilla/build/moz1.9.1/mozilla/ko-rel-gtk2-ns-tools
[04:06] <fta> asac, how do i fix that: http://paste.ubuntu.com/109238/ ? headers from xpcom/glue/
[08:49] <heikki> hi, could someone review/sponsor my patch on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mozvoikko/+bug/297169 ?
[12:46] <fta> asac, help ):
[14:07] <asac> fta: on what?
[14:07] <asac> ;)
[14:08] <fta> asac, <fta> asac, how do i fix that: http://paste.ubuntu.com/109238/ ? headers from xpcom/glue/
[14:08] <fta> http://svn.openkomodo.com/repos/openkomodo/trunk/mozilla/patches-new/komodo_app/komodo/app/nsKomodoApp.cpp
[14:08] <asac> fta: for mit seems like the headesr didnt get installed properly
[14:08] <asac> fta: have you tried to run make in xpcom/glue explicitly?
[14:08] <asac> or even xpcom/
[14:09] <fta> those headers are not in dist
[14:09] <asac> fta: yes. thats what i am saying
[14:10] <asac> fta: yesterday your first built failed .... i suspected that it aborted and never installed a bunch of headers
[14:11] <asac> fta: they are supposed to be in dist/inclue/xpcom/
[14:11] <asac> cd xpcom/; make ... should do the trick
[14:11] <fta> i should probably retry from scratch, as i fixed a bunch of issues since
[14:11] <asac> fta: or that yes. but for this issue just make there should be enough
[14:11] <asac> fta: or try to run make in mozilla/
[14:12] <fta> it rebuilds everything
[14:12] <asac> fta: if you run make in mozilla/`?
[14:12] <fta> yes
[14:12] <asac> openkomodo/mozilla/build/moz1.9.1/mozilla/
[14:12] <fta> it has an objdir
[14:12] <asac> fta: usually make in mozilla/ rm -rf dist/ ... and builds there
[14:13] <asac> fta: mozilla build system removes all the dist files on make in top level
[14:13] <asac> but not the objects
[14:13] <asac> so while it takes a bit longer it shouldnt take the full rebuild cycle
[14:13] <fta> usually, i know how to fix that but here, i don't understand what's wrong
[14:15] <asac> i think that mozilla/ tree build failed ;)
[14:15] <asac> (still the same idea)
[14:16] <fta> hm, now this is different. a make in xpcom: http://paste.ubuntu.com/109391/
[14:17] <fta> I'd say i'd better restart from scratch
[17:12] <fta> asac, http://paste.ubuntu.com/109476/  xul builds fine, the re-run in komodo too (seems it's not even needed), but they build js separately and it fails there
[17:15] <asac> cool ... next: try to eliminate the need for mozilla/ tree ;)
[17:15] <fta> why do they need to do that ? http://paste.ubuntu.com/109478/
[17:17] <asac> sorry... all is slow here ... i am currently scanning all my home dirs for cruft
[17:17] <fta> http://paste.ubuntu.com/109481/
[17:17] <asac> fta: the js standalone interpreter wasnt built in 1.89
[17:17] <fta> seems i'm not done yet
[17:17] <asac> 1.8
[17:18] <asac> do we ship that?
[17:18] <asac> its a binary called "js"
[17:18] <fta> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root<PHONE_NUMBER>-01-23 01:26 /usr/lib/xulrunner-1.9.1b3pre/js*
[17:18] <asac> fta: yeah. dont build the standalone interpreter if you are on >= 1.9
[17:18] <asac> or was it 1.9.1?
[17:18] <asac> not srue
[17:19] <asac> right
[17:19] <asac> so 1.9 doesnt need it
[17:19] <asac> err
[17:19] <asac> hmm
[17:19] <asac> well. afaik its built by default on 1.9.1
[17:19] <asac> maybe its not pumped into dist/bin though
[17:19] <fta> yep, i remember i had to run configure there since 1.9.1
[17:20] <asac> you mean in js/src?
[17:20] <fta> yes
[17:20] <asac> might be that they build it since that refactoring
[17:20] <asac> but i dont think that
[17:20] <asac> previously js/src got auto build
[17:20] <asac> now it has its own build system
[17:21] <asac> but still the js is build by default according to stransky ;)
[17:21] <asac> i havent verified
[17:21] <asac> let me check
[17:21] <asac> i have /var/builddir/asac/moz_objdir/obj-3.2.pre/dist/bin/js
[17:21] <asac> and also /var/builddir/asac/moz_objdir/obj-xul1.9.1/dist/bin/js
[17:22] <asac> so either packages-static lacks that file or we forget it
[17:22] <asac> (given that its not in)
[17:22] <asac> dump me
[17:22] <asac> hehe
[17:22] <asac> saw that you found it
[17:22] <asac> yeah. so not needed on 1.9.1
[17:22] <asac> (and me typing for nothing - again ;))
[17:25] <fta> oh my! http://paste.ubuntu.com/109485/
[17:26] <fta> asac, silo_python !
[17:26] <asac> hehe
[17:26] <asac> one should really forbid using python for building
[17:26] <asac> even outlaw ;)
[17:28] <fta> what is target_regmozbuild() doing?
[17:28] <fta> regmozbuild.register_build(gConfigFileName) ???
[17:28] <asac> do we really care? ;)
[17:29] <asac> not sure where is regmozbuild defined ;)?
[17:58] <fta> asac, why no memory cache ?
[17:59] <asac> leaktest ;)
[17:59] <asac> i ended up with ffox 3 consuming 50% of mem
[17:59] <asac> now i am checking how well it works with mem cache disabled
[17:59] <asac> actually i even saw firefox releasing memory already
[18:00] <asac> think was the first time i recognized it ;)
[18:00] <asac> so far mem usage seems not to grow
[18:00] <asac> even though i have tinderbox reloading constantlyx
[18:00] <asac> when closing tab the mem goes down ;)
[18:01] <asac> and performance isnt really worth either
[18:01] <asac> guess its fast enough to get content from disk
[18:01] <asac> problem with memory cache is that in code you can see that there is no memory pressure implemented ;)
[18:01] <asac> so cache will grow endlessly
[18:01] <asac> even taking swap at some point from what i can tell
[18:05] <fta> hm
[18:06] <asac> there are still leaks :(
[18:06] <asac> i am up to 7% from 6%
[18:07] <asac> with the same tabs open that i had in the beginning
[18:07] <asac> even forced garbage collection just in case
[18:11]  * fta blames Mozilla
[18:13] <fta> lol
[18:13] <fta> siloing `/usr' to `build/moz1.9.1/mozilla/ko-rel-gtk2-ns-tools/dist/python'
[18:13] <fta> running 'cp -R "/usr" "build/moz1.9.1/mozilla/ko-rel-gtk2-ns-tools/dist/python"'
[18:13] <fta> so much for --python=/usr/bin/python
[18:14] <asac> err
[18:14] <asac> they copy the whole /usr/ tree?
[18:14] <asac> whats that?
[18:15] <fta> they want their private copy of python :(
[18:15] <asac> well ... but why copy whole /usr  then?
[18:15] <asac> doenst sound minimal ;)
[18:15] <fta> i assume i'm not supposed to use --python=/usr/bin/python
[18:16] <asac> we cnanot distribute it with in pkg copy ;)
[18:16] <asac> really :)
[18:16] <asac> thats too dump
[18:16] <fta> i wanted it use our system python
[18:16] <asac> you have to
[18:16] <fta> i know
[18:17] <asac> hehe
[18:17] <asac> yeah. kick them
[18:17] <asac> i mean file upstream bugs
[18:17] <asac> first
[18:17] <asac> and when they start to become desparate, you become the hero by submitting the patches :)
[18:20] <asac> fta: ever heard anything about when we get subPPAs`
[18:20] <asac> ?
[18:22] <fta> asac, no
[18:23] <asac> fta: when did you do the last snapshot?
[18:23] <asac> nm. i upgrade ;)
[18:24] <fta> this silo thing is seriously getting on my nerves
[18:25] <asac> hehe
[18:25] <asac> i dont understand why folks use python
[18:25] <asac> they could use C ;)
[18:26] <asac> would make things much more complicated
[18:46] <asac> fta: did you figure ubiquity?
[18:46] <asac> and how that could use build-system?
[19:08] <fta> Jan 16 17:45:13 <fta>   Jazzva, i think ubiquity needs to be patched. it wants access to $(OBJDIR)/dist/bin (at least to run xpcshell) which should not be needed for us as we have that in our xul package.
[19:08] <fta> Jan 16 17:45:13 <fta>   Jazzva, so an installed xul + the build system should be enough.
[19:08] <fta> so it's not very difficult
[19:09] <fta> but i'd like to finish o-k first
[19:09] <asac> have you talked to ok upstream about pkging?
[19:12] <fta> nope
[19:13] <fta> just wanted to use it myself for a long while, and no one is working on it
[19:21] <asac> this memory cache disabling seems to be the cure
[19:21] <asac> i mean without doing anything i ended up at the same mem where i started
[19:22] <asac> e.g. whatever i do i move between 5% and 7.5% ;)
[19:22] <asac> well ... not more than a bunch of tabs
[19:22] <asac> but seems to be ok
[19:22] <asac> good crack
[19:24] <[reed]> crack?
[19:25] <asac> yes its so cool that i feel high ;)
[19:29] <asac> but seems that 3.2 doesnt have similar issues as 3.0 even with memory cache
[19:29] <asac> even better ;)
[19:58] <fta> asac, i'm stuck with http://paste.ubuntu.com/109542/  the python tests are obviously failing (i disabled the silo-ification), and now that.
[20:01] <fta> everything depends on the siloed python :(
[20:19] <asac> have you checked whether this stuff builds at all if you dont modify it?
[20:49] <fta> asac, i give up for now. https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~fta/+junk/openkomodo.head
[22:53] <fta> asac, how do i know what kind of connectivity i have with my 3G key ? (3G, edge, gsm, ...)
[22:54] <asac> fta: you shouldnt need to know
[22:54] <fta> it's primitive :( no info about anything
[22:55] <fta> not even connection time (elapsed time)
[22:55] <fta> it says "automobile broadband (gsm) connection"
[22:55] <fta> is that 3G?
[22:56] <asac> fta: do you have libmbca0 installed?
[22:56] <asac> yes. support for 3G is quite basic in NM 0.7 ... modemmanager will bring some relief to that
[22:57] <fta> no libmbca* installed, should I ?
[23:00] <fta2> http://paste.ubuntu.com/109592/
[23:02] <fta> i should disable update-manager
[23:02] <fta> there was a blueprint about doing all that iirc
[23:06] <fta2> 00:05:26 (181 KB/s) for 40MB.
[23:08] <fta> with 238 KB/s peaks
[23:40] <asac> fta: networkchanging spec that is
[23:41] <fta> people are complaining about the noise in !ubuntu, that was my 1st fear when joining.
[23:43] <fta> asac, ff is worse with mem cache disabled. 370M -> 530M
[23:44] <fta> but VSZ 1200M -> 990M
[23:44] <asac> heh
[23:46] <fta> that's after a reboot
[23:46] <asac> odd


[13:20] <elfy> balloons: hi - any idea when the trackers will have things on them?
[14:17] <elopio> good morning qa team.
[14:18] <dkessel> hey elopio :)
[18:08] <dkessel> balloons: did you get yesterday's pings?
[18:10] <elfy> or today's ;)
[18:58] <elfy> infinity: hi - so now it all starts again, with balloons being afk - not really sure who to ask, but how do we get vivid images up on tracker - or is it all in hand - in which case I'll let it just all turn up
[18:58] <elfy> sorry for picking you - wasn't sure who else to ask :)
[19:00] <elfy> thought I was in -release as well ...
[19:04] <infinity> elfy: It'll happen when it happens, nothing you need to do.
[19:04] <infinity> elfy: Colin and are are taking a day or two off post-release, but we'll get the build going soon.
[19:04] <elfy> okey doke - I thought as much, just though I would I check that's all
[19:04] <elfy> infinity: and a well earned break too :)
[23:46] <Nothing_Much> I can't find any cases for 15.04 yet..


[16:50] <whitenhiemer> hey guys, i'm new to ec2 instances
[16:51] <whitenhiemer> is there anything specific that I need to do to make port 80 publicly accessible
[16:51] <whitenhiemer> I'm not running iptables rules yet
[16:51] <TeTeT> whitenhiemer: probably ec2-authorize to open the port
[16:52] <whitenhiemer> is that in the control panel?
[16:56] <TeTeT> whitenhiemer: let me check
[17:00] <whitenhiemer> i disassociated my elastic IP and lost my shared ip, i think its just time to relaunch and start over, fun toy, maybe have some use for this
[22:55] <erichammond> Which Ubuntu releases on EC2 use a root disk label of "cloudimg-rootfs" and which use a rood disk label of "uec-rootfs"?


[01:14] <FireRabb1t> hey... i just accidently uploaded a packge to upload.ubuntu.come that REALLY should not have been uploaded
[01:14] <FireRabb1t> where do these files go / how can I get this deleted?
[01:22] <FireRabb1t> alright according to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment, anything with an unknown key is just silently ignored.. is there anyone here from Canonical that can confirm this?
[01:23] <azeem> that's the case, yes
[01:23] <FireRabb1t> do the files get deleted?
[01:23] <azeem> I don't know about that
[01:23] <azeem> I assume at some point they will
[01:24] <FireRabb1t> azeem: do you know who in here would know?
[01:25] <azeem> if they know, they will answer
[01:25] <FireRabb1t> fair enough, thanks :)
[02:21] <asac> FireRabb1t: should be no problem if your key hasn't the power to upload
[02:22] <asac> FireRabb1t: of course only if its an accident ;)
[02:23] <FireRabb1t> yea, it was. forgot the 'local' on 'dput'. :)
[04:00] <mekius> hey, working on a custom live cd here and have a few questions
[04:01] <mekius> does the live cd get copied to the hard drive upon install or does the installer use dpkg to install packages?
[04:01] <LaserJock> the squashfs gets copied
[04:02] <LaserJock> there aren't any .debs on the live cd
[04:02] <mekius> ok, i thought so
[04:02] <mekius> so whatever is on the live cd is pretty much what will be on the installed system?
[04:02] <mekius> obviously with a different init
[04:03] <LaserJock> some packages are removed after it's copied
[04:03] <mekius> ah ok
[04:04] <mekius> are there any plans to make customization any easier, or any advice on being able to see changes without having to rebuild an iso and load it up in qemu each time?
[04:04] <LaserJock> mekius: well, there is Reconstructor and Ubuntu Customization Kit GUIs for it
[04:05] <LaserJock> mekius: and for sure there are some people that would like to make it easier
[04:05] <LaserJock> but I don't think there is anything specifically in the works right now
[04:05] <mekius> yeah, but they require rebuilding the iso everytime and testing with qemu, then doing it all over again heh
[04:05] <LaserJock> well
[04:05] <mekius> ok
[04:05] <LaserJock> you don't know exactly what you're going to get until you built the .iso
[04:05] <mekius> i did see a wiki entry about some people with suggestions, but don't know if anyone started anything
[04:06] <LaserJock> we even do that for Ubuntu disks
[04:06] <mekius> well i know with archie, an arch based live cd, they offer a tool that will take a partition and make a live cd out of it
[04:06] <LaserJock> we build the .isos and test, and if there's a bug or something we rebuild new ones
[04:06] <mekius> so you can just customize it while it runs and then just pack up an iso
[04:06] <LaserJock> well, you can kinda do that
[04:07] <LaserJock> you mount the .iso loopback
[04:07] <LaserJock> and chroot in
[04:07] <LaserJock> and you can make changes
[04:07] <LaserJock> and then get out and repack the squashfs and .iso
[04:07] <mekius> yeah, right now i've got it unpacked
[04:08] <mekius> and i chroot in and do some karate and kick shit around, then exit and build a new iso
[04:08] <mekius> run it in qemu to test it, then rinse and repeat
[04:08] <LaserJock> yep, sound about right
[04:09] <mekius> alright, just sucks cause i can't see the effect of alot of my changes until i boot the iso and see something is screwed heh
[04:09] <mekius> i know it's not easy :)
[04:09] <mekius> sorry for the rant here heh
[04:09] <LaserJock> yep, that's pretty much how the Ubuntu devs do it too
[04:10] <mekius> jumped on to a project and found this method very time consuming :)
[04:10] <LaserJock> that's about the most easy going rant we've had in here fore a while ;-)
[04:10] <mekius> :)
[04:10] <LaserJock> I do know there are other people interested in that kind of thing
[04:10] <mekius> i try not to completely bash anyone for what they do, i'm sure this works fine for doing small updates, especially when you know the system well
[04:10] <LaserJock> it's just getting time and resources together to get something put together
[04:10] <mekius> just hard for someone starting out trying to do things quickly :)
[04:11] <mekius> yep, i hear ya
[04:11] <mekius> resources are always an issue in open source :)
[04:12] <mekius> how many people here work for Canonical?
[04:13] <LaserJock> I think there's gotta be like 20 or so people for Ubuntu development
[04:13] <mekius> k
[04:13] <LaserJock> total
[04:13] <mekius> thats a pretty good amount :)
[04:13] <LaserJock> well, depends
[04:14] <LaserJock> I think it's much smaller than say Red Hat or Novell
[04:14] <LaserJock> but having paid people definitely helps
[04:14] <mekius> oh sure
[04:14] <LaserJock> we have around 80-100 total devs
[04:15] <mekius> red hat and novell are alot more dug in
[04:15] <mekius> they have a lot of contracts to take care of
[04:16] <mekius> LaserJock: you do alot of dev?
[04:16] <LaserJock> mekius: I do what I can, which unfortunately isn't as much as I'd like :-)
[04:17] <mekius> yeah :)
[04:17] <LaserJock> I work mostly on Edubuntu these days
[04:17] <mekius> ah ok
[04:17] <mekius> good project, get em while their young :)
[04:18] <LaserJock> heh, yeah
[04:18] <mneptok> LaserJock: it's >20 on the distro team
[04:18] <LaserJock> mneptok: >30?
[04:18] <LaserJock> I remember when there was 15, but they keep adding people
[04:19] <mneptok> LaserJock: dunno. i can't keep track of new employees, either.
[04:19] <mneptok> but i know it's >20
[04:19] <LaserJock> LP gets the lions-share
[04:20] <LaserJock> but still, Debian's got ~1000 devs
[04:20] <LaserJock> gentoo's got 300+
[04:20] <LaserJock> I'd love to see numbers for RH and Novel
[04:20] <kylem> redhat has more people working on their kernel than canonical has engineers
[04:20] <kylem> (exaggeration, but still)
[04:21] <mneptok> kylem: but none of them have your scintillating criminal record.
[04:22] <LaserJock> there must be something about "bad boy" kernel hackers ;-)
[04:22] <kylem> mneptok, shh, i had that pardoned.
[04:25] <mneptok> pardoned != expunged
[04:25] <mneptok> you was robbed
[04:50] <whiprush_> LaserJock: ping
[04:51] <LaserJock> whiprush_: pong!
[04:51] <whiprush_> LaserJock: dude, you on im?
[04:51] <LaserJock> whiprush_: how are you?!
[04:51] <whiprush_> let's chat
[04:52] <LaserJock> IRC or jabber?
[04:52] <whiprush_> jabber
[04:52] <whiprush_><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[06:10] <mike>  I am a Vista 64bit Ultimate user, and I would like to transfer over to linux, but so far in 7.04 64bit and 32 dont mesh.  What do you guys recommend?
[06:11] <desrt> mike; you're in the wrong channel for this type of question
[06:12] <mike> Which channel then?
[06:12] <desrt> mike; but if i had to make a recommendation it would be to just run 32bit.  there are not enough compelling reasons to use 64bit for normal situations
[06:12] <mike> I just figure I ask developers straight up.
[06:12] <desrt> #ubuntu
[06:12] <desrt> see topic ^^.  no support question :)
[06:12] <mike> desrt, who is 64 bit for at this time?
[06:13] <desrt> mike; people who don't mind the disadvantages of running 64bit
[06:13] <desrt> basically, anything that comes in binary form (flash player, some video codecs, etc) won't work at all
[06:13] <desrt> since there are only 32bit versions of these binaries around
[06:13] <mjg59> flash can be made to work with minimal difficulty
[06:14] <mjg59> And most of the interesting video codecs are supported by ffmpeg
[06:14] <desrt> out of process linked against 32bit libc?
[06:14] <mjg59> desrt: Yeah
[06:14] <desrt> interesting
[06:14] <mjg59> nspluginwrapper
[06:14] <mike> except mpeg avc encoding!
[06:14] <mjg59> Has the handy side effect that it's out of process
[06:14] <desrt> mjg59; are there any good reasons to actually use 64bit, though?
[06:14] <desrt> mjg59; i find flash doesn't usually cause me trouble.  java is another story.
[06:15] <mjg59> desrt: You can use it to out of process stuff on the same architecture, too
[06:15] <mjg59> mike: If you want to use stuff where there's no 64-bit codec, then right now 32-bit is a much easier choice
[06:15] <ScottK> desrt: If you are doing CPU intensive processing using software optimized for 64 bit.
[06:15] <desrt> mjg59; i'd have imagined that to be the case :p
[06:15] <mjg59> desrt: Mildly better performance, access to more than 3GB of RAM
[06:16] <desrt> i'd imagine performance to be mildly worse under common workloads
[06:16] <mjg59> Nothing especially compelling.   But in my Vista Ultimate I can still run 32bit apps on the fly with no hiccups.    I know you probably can't easily answer this.   But why cant my 32bit linux apps play nice inside a 64bit nix OS?
[06:16] <desrt> are they benchmarking integer math performance or something?
[06:17] <desrt> mike; they absolutely can
[06:17] <mjg59> mike: They can, but we don't have the infrastructure to make this easy
[06:17] <desrt> mike; you can run 32bit linux apps out of the box on ubuntu amd64
[06:17] <mjg59> desrt: The extra registers help
[06:17] <desrt> mike; but you need to have 32bit libraries to go with them.... and those don't currently ship as part of the 64bit version of ubuntu
[06:17] <desrt> mjg59; ahh.  good call.
[06:17] <mike> I got Intel CD2 at 3.2ghz with 64 bit Ubunut currenlty instaleld.
[06:17] <desrt> mjg59; i imagine the ip-relative addressing speeds up shared libraries too
[06:18] <desrt> no more bx-setting thunk
[06:18] <mjg59> mike: The difficulty in running 32-bit applications on 64-bit ubuntu is a failure on our part
[06:19] <mjg59> But I don't think anyone's actively working on it right now
[06:19] <desrt> the best solution is going to involve changes to apt/dpkg
[06:19] <mjg59> It's all been architected, just not implemented
[06:19] <mjg59> Tollef wrote his thesis on it, IIRC
[06:19] <desrt> i guess there would need to be two different sorts of dependencies
[06:20] <desrt> same-arch (for libraries) and any-arch (for stuff that is merely shelled out to)
[06:20] <mjg59> We already have that, effectively
[06:20] <desrt> do tell?
[06:20] <mjg59> Oh, I see what you mean
[06:20] <mjg59> Yeah, it would only special case libraries
[06:21] <desrt> on the other hand you could probably do it in the build infrastructure
[06:21] <desrt> and generate 3264 versions of all libraries
[06:22] <desrt> for arch "amd64" but containing 32bit code installed to /lib32
[06:23] <mike> So apt/dpkg    is only set up currently for one or the other?
[06:23] <desrt> with some very rare exceptions, yes
[06:23] <desrt> you either have a x86 system or an amd64 system
[06:23] <Amaranth> looking for a kubuntu person :)
[06:23] <desrt> amd64 has some very rare "32bit version" packages like libc
[06:24] <Amaranth> need to get the patch from http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=147557 in
[06:24] <ubotu> KDE bug 147557 in general "When using compiz, the "Server List" window widgets do not appear, and the window cannot be closed..." [Crash,Resolved: fixed]
[06:24] <desrt> you can build and install more of them yourself but you're basically on your own for it
[06:24] <mike> How come in Synpatic after adding the repository for something like Skype, how come and wont let me download and install it?
[06:25] <desrt> because skype is a binary for which only a 32bit version is available
[06:25] <desrt> these are all the reasons you should use 32bit :)
[06:25] <mike> but mjg59 said that 32bit apps work out of the box in 64bit.
[06:25] <desrt> mjg59; do you know if there is some way to run the CPU in 64bit mode with the exception of pointer-size?
[06:26] <mjg59> desrt: Not to the best of my knowledge
[06:26] <desrt> so you can get access to extra instructions/registers...
[06:26] <mjg59> mike: No, I said they didn't
[06:26] <desrt> mike; actually, i said that.  and it's true.  but the way debian packaging works won't allow you to do it.
[06:26] <mike> my ba
[06:26] <mike> Do you guys use 64 or 32?
[06:26] <xtknight> 32bit does work on all amd64 CPUs.  the 32bit apps dont necessarily right off, since they need to look for their 32lib libs.  sometimes "linux32 prog" will help.
[06:26] <desrt> mike; and if you wanted to install skype for yourself (outside of the packaging) you'd have to build a lot of libraries for it first
[06:27] <xtknight> otherwise put libs from i386.deb into (use "mc" to get files out of a deb) /usr/lib32/
[06:27] <desrt> i use 32bit because i don't feel like dealing with the hassles.  mjg59 uses 64bit because it's his job to fix the hassles. :)
[06:27] <desrt> (for a rather loosely defined meaning of "job", admittedly...)
[06:28] <mike> Are you guys the actually developers ofr Ubuntu?
[06:28] <desrt> some of us more than others.  me, not so much :)
[06:28] <xtknight> i'm only a user
[06:29] <mike> what about mjg59?
[06:29] <desrt> oh.  he's elite.
[06:29] <desrt> if you have a laptop, he's the reason that it works
[06:29] <mike> He is the man?
[06:29] <desrt> no
[06:29] <desrt> he's actually three men
[06:29] <mike> wow
[06:29] <desrt> ya.  seriously.
[06:29] <mneptok> and a baby
[06:29] <mike> props to you mjg59
[06:30] <mneptok> and a hydra
[06:30] <LaserJock> mike: he's on the Ubuntu Technical Board ;-)
[06:30] <LaserJock> or at least I think he still is
[06:30] <mike> Now tell me the truth do you guys use Vista or OSX?
[06:30] <mike> or true nix users?
[06:30] <LaserJock> I use OS X a lot, never even seen Vista
[06:30] <desrt> (apple doesn't release a firmware upgrader for linux...)
[06:30] <desrt> other than that i never use either
[06:31] <desrt> well, actually... i use macos when i'm trying to fix my sister's broken computer...
[06:31] <mneptok> +n
[06:32] <mike> Vista is nice eyecandy that is bloated out the wazooo
[06:32] <desrt> i've heard the eyecandy isn't even that nice :p
[06:32] <mike> better than xp then lol
[06:32] <desrt> ya... but not as good as macos from 4 years ago
[06:32] <mike> I really appreciate you guys taking the time to talk to me.
[06:33] <ScottK> IMO Windows peaked at Win2K.
[06:33] <ScottK> I will confess to mostly care about reliability, so my perspective is a bit unusual.
[06:33] <desrt> before they started changing the visual style with every release to make you think that it was new and shiny? :)
[06:33] <mike> So I guess I should but my 32bit Ubunut and reinstall over my current 64bit one?
[06:34] <desrt> mike; running a 32bit system is, without a doubt, easier
[06:34] <mike> I swear the only reason I use M$ is cause of games
[06:34] <desrt> mike; particularly if you're gonna be putting in stuff like skype
[06:34] <desrt> mike; get a wii.  i hear they're fantastic :)
[06:35] <mike> x360 for halo 3!    Nice WYSIWG alternative.      Premier, Macromodia ?
[06:36] <desrt> nothing yet, unfortunately
[06:37] <desrt> but i think we'll be seeing a shift from adobe in the coming years..
[06:37] <desrt> fortunately, most "home users" don't use that stuff
[06:37] <ScottK> For PDF the tools are actually, IMO, better on Linux.
[06:37] <mike> I just like having the ability to do anything
[06:37] <desrt> ya.  evince is fantastic.
[06:37] <LaserJock> ScottK: yes, way better
[06:37] <desrt> has windows got a pdf viewer yet?
[06:37] <desrt> or do you still have to install the adobe crap?
[06:38] <mike> Windows doesnt even have a native dual pane file manager, errr
[06:38] <desrt> what happened to fileman.exe?
[06:39] <mike> Is there a WIKI for the next Gusty release?
[06:39] <mike> I would like to see what it offers
[06:39] <desrt> you can probably get a good idea by reading the release notes for the tribe releases
[06:40] <LaserJock> it's a bit tough to see, even at this point a lot can change
[06:40] <desrt> start here: http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/tribe5
[06:40] <desrt> then read backward tribe4, tribe3, ...
[06:40] <desrt> it'll give you a good overview of the new stuff that has gone in so far
[06:41] <mike> Better dual monitor support, sweet.
[06:42] <desrt> Smooth shutdown splash
[06:42] <desrt> The splash screen displayed on shutdown no longer flickers briefly to a black screen during the shutdown process. A[A[A
[06:42] <desrt> thank god :p
[06:42] <ScottK> There is also https://wiki.kubuntu.org/GutsyGibbon/Tribe5/Kubuntu to consider too.
[06:42] <mike> Do you test in VMserver are do you do a real install?
[06:42] <desrt> kubuntu is for chumps :)
[06:43] <mike> agree
[06:43] <desrt> mike; to be honest, it's probably reasonably safe at this point to install gutsy tribe on your normal machine
[06:43] <ScottK> Kubuntu is for people who actually like to have choices ;-)
[06:43] <desrt> there may be some bumps, of course.... and there will be lots of updates to download every day... but it probably works OK
[06:43] <mike> So now if I go back to 32bit, i cause I need to ditch a gb of memory or two that wont be used
[06:43] <desrt> how much ram do you have in there? :p
[06:43] <ScottK> How much memory do you have?
[06:44] <mike> Like I said I got all the power toys
[06:44] <desrt> you can run 32bit ubuntu with PAE and get access to up to about 64GB
[06:44] <mike> Was going to build another Quadcore and overclock it, but holding off the see these new 45nm CPUs coming out.
[06:44] <desrt> i doubt you have more than that :)
[06:45] <desrt> the limitation is on the amount of memory that a single process can use -- that's 3GB
[06:45] <desrt> the system as a whole can use more
[06:46] <desrt> without PAE the most memory that it makes sense to have is 4GB
[06:46] <desrt> (but a bit of it will be wasted due to memory-mapped buffers of devices)
[06:47] <kylem> no, you will get the full 4G per process on all our kernels.
[06:48] <desrt> kylem; on 32bit?  i doubt it.
[06:48] <mike> Now does linux have a MPEG AVC encoder?   FFMPEG only decodes.       Gnome hands down right?
[06:50] <desrt> mike; i'm biased.
[06:50] <mike> I notice a couple KDE apps look funny i gnome.   I think I tried k3b, just looked a bit off.
[06:50] <mike> *in
[06:51] <desrt> kde and gnome use different toolkits for drawing and different themes...
[06:51] <desrt> on top of that they have rather different design philosophy and artwork
[06:51] <desrt> so it can be a bit jarring :)
[06:51] <RAOF> mike: You'd be after "x264" on the MPEG4 AVC encoding front.  You can build it into ffmpeg, if you want.
[06:53] <mike> So should I wait until october of stable Gutsy or put 7.04 32bit back on?
[06:54] <desrt> kylem; erm.... you're someone who should probably know a bit about virtual memory...
[06:54] <kylem> indeed.
[06:54] <desrt> so i don't believe you when you say you don't know anything about it
[06:55] <kylem> it was sarcasm.
[06:55] <desrt> so correct me
[06:55] <dobey> kylem: he's canadian. they don't have sarcasm there.
[06:56] <kylem> as it happens, i know a lot about virtual memory...
[06:56] <desrt> do you have some sort of a kernel-entry trampoline these days?
[06:56] <kylem> eh? we invalidate the tlb, it costs us a bit, but it's not a big deal.
[06:56] <desrt> so you _do_ have a trampoline?
[06:57] <mike> DL gutsy tribe 5 now.  Great DL speed
[06:57] <desrt> is that upstream or a patch?
[06:58] <kylem> upstream. see CONFIG_HIGHMEM4G
[06:58] <mike> Why doesnt torrent become main stream to DL large files?
[06:59] <dobey> mike: it has become maintstream
[06:59] <mike> 600 KB/s and climbing
[06:59] <LaserJock> mike: cause torrents suck :-)
[06:59] <LaserJock> at least for some people I guess
[06:59] <mike> Well I got the download page for trribe 5 and by default it sends me to http link
[06:59] <dobey> mike: gunzonline.com uses it. blizzard uses it for world of warcraft. etc...
[06:59] <dobey> it's a pain in the ass though
[07:00] <LaserJock> it always seems like torrents are soooo much slower than just using http/ftp for me
[07:01] <mike> If it is main stream then by defualt download link shouldnt link me to the torrent?
[07:02] <dobey> mike: mainstream doesn't mean everyone uses it by default
[07:02] <dobey> mainstream merely means "in widespread use"
[07:02] <minghua> Also less people downloads Tribe releases than final downloads.
[07:02] <dobey> i think numerous online games using it, pretty much classifies it as "mainstream"
[07:03] <dobey> especially with world of warcraft being one of those
[07:03] <minghua> So even if bittorrent is the default link for final release, it makes sense to go back to http/ftp for tribe.
[07:03] <mike> But does it make sense for the server?
[07:04] <dobey> the server?
[07:04] <mike> bandwith placed on server
[07:04] <LaserJock> like every time we release and the Canonical servers and mirrors get absolutely hammered :-)
[07:05] <dobey> if you're using bittorrent, there is virtually no bandwidth being used by the server for the download
[07:05] <LaserJock> yep
[07:05] <mike> bandwith cost money so I was just wondering about 'mainstream'
[07:05] <LaserJock> that's why torrents are available
[07:05] <ion_> Its a pity multicasting hasnt been more popular.
[07:05] <dobey> bandwisth ~= cost of water, at least in the US :)
[07:06] <desrt> kylem; everything i'm reading about this HIGHMEM4G tells me that it has nothing to do with virtual address space layout
[07:06] <desrt> kylem; nothing to do with the kernel/user split, anyway....
[07:06] <ion_> Id like to order twenty liters of bandwidth.
[07:06] <dobey> that'll be $0.05
[07:07] <hile> so how many bits does it fit to one liter
[07:08] <dobey> depends on what counts as a bit i guess
[07:08] <dobey> is a molecule a bit or a byte?
[07:09] <hile> a byte, I'd say
[07:09] <mike> random question.  What is the  i386 name used for 32 bit desktop edition?    I though 386 was a reference back to 1985 with the 80386 processor
[07:09] <dobey> hile: so each atom is a bit?
[07:09] <hile> not so sure
[07:09] <dobey> or are electrons bits?
[07:10] <LaserJock> the spin on the electron  is a bit
[07:12] <RAOF> Hm.  Is there any easy way to install *all* the dbgsym packages for all the packages I have installed?
[07:13] <mike> randome question #2 how come ntfs-3g made me copy the files over to ext3 partiion before being able to execute/process ?
[07:14] <kylem> huh, i thought x86 might have joined the 20th century. guess not. loss.
[07:24] <mike> About to check out tribe 5 here.   Umm.  I got a dilema.   1 blacnk HDD,   2 HDD  has two OS on it;   64 7.04 and Vista Ultimate.      I want to install Gutsy to blank hdd.    But then I would have 3 OS.   i want to get rid of 64bit 7.04
[07:26] <desrt> kylem; seems not to be the case, in fact :/
[07:26] <desrt> kylem; i like my syscalls fast anyway :)
[11:16] <Riddell> calc: congratulations
[11:22] <Amaranth> anyone know how to make apt show it's reasoning for upgrading a package?
[11:22] <Amaranth> for why it thinks an upgrade is available, i mean
[11:28] <Amaranth> i have a feeling i need mvo for that one :)
[11:38] <zasf> cjwatson: goog morning
[11:38] <geser> Amaranth: apt-cache policy pkgname
[11:38] <zasf> cjwatson: how do I know if bcm43xx-fwcutter will be in main/restricted and thus shipped with gutsy cd?
[11:38] <Amaranth> geser: no
[11:39] <Amaranth> geser: that just shows the weights
[11:39] <Amaranth> i want to know why it thinks two packages are different and one has a higher weight than the other
[11:39] <geser> ah
[11:39] <Amaranth> i've got what i'm pretty sure is a PPA bug
[11:39] <Amaranth> well, or apt
[11:40] <Amaranth> need to figure out why it always thinks the remote version is newer than the local version
[11:40] <Amaranth> no matter how many times you do the 'upgrade'
[11:40] <geser> ah, that problem
[11:40] <Amaranth> different than the original, that was fixed
[11:41] <Amaranth> this is a completely different problem that apparently only i have
[11:41] <geser> have you checked that the package with that version is only in one repo?
[11:41] <Amaranth> but it doesn't happen with the same package in the actual archive
[11:41] <Amaranth> geser: there is an older version of the package available in regular feisty
[11:41] <Amaranth> otherwise there is nothing else
[11:42] <Amaranth> apt-cache policy shows 3, 2 dupes of the new one and the old one
[11:42] <Amaranth> (one is remote the other is local)
[11:43] <Amaranth> the only thing i can think of is the ~ppa1 bit
[11:43] <Amaranth> but that doesn't do anything to the other packages i have in there
[11:45] <geser> wait for mvo or dig in the source code
[11:45] <Amaranth> i think i'll wait for mvo :)
[11:46] <Amaranth> my dig into nautilus/libeel turned me off looking at other people's code for awhile
[11:46] <stgraber> asac: ping
[12:18] <stgraber> asac: I have spent some more minutes on that open network problem with ipw3945+NM, I checked with ipw3945 without NM and the no-automatic-association (default module parameter) seems to work fine but as soon as I start the NM, it connects to my wired LAN (so it shouldn't do anything with the WLAN card) but also associate to the first open wlan it finds ...
[12:18] <stgraber> which is I'm pretty sure not a wanted behaviour at all
[12:33] <Treenaks> same with ipw2200 -- that associates to the first AP it can the moment you load the driver
[12:34] <Treenaks> (which might be illegal in some places...)
[12:34] <Amaranth> Treenaks: dude, that is no annoying
[12:35] <Treenaks> Amaranth: 'no' -> 'so' or 'not'?
[12:35] <Amaranth> so :)
[12:36] <Amaranth> before i login i'm on the neighbor's 'linksys' network
[12:36] <Amaranth> that is illegal here :)
[12:37] <Treenaks> Amaranth: here it's only illegal if there's a "no access" sign (meaning "it's encrypted" or "the ssid contains words that can be interpreted as such")
[12:37] <Treenaks> "linksys" and "default" are the new "Welcome" signs :)
[12:39] <Amaranth> hehe
[01:14] <Kopfgeldjaeger> hi
[03:26] <jc-denton> hi all
[03:27] <jc-denton> in never ubuntu distros disks are always called /dev/sdx
[03:27] <jc-denton> is that correct
[03:27] <jc-denton> how can i figure out if the disk behind is ata, sata or scsi
[03:27] <jc-denton> because i can't enable 32bit io and dma so far
[04:16] <Nafallo> !weekend
[04:16] <ubotu> It's a weekend.  Often on weekends, the paid developers, and a lot of the community, may not be around to answer your question.  Please be patient, wait longer than you normally would, or try again during the working week.
[04:21] <pkern> jc-denton: hdparm -I <dev>
[04:21] <pkern> jc-denton: That won't tell you the type of disk, but the capabilities.
[04:22] <pkern> jc-denton: It will also show you which DMA mode is currently used (asterisk). But I don't think that you have to mess with that nowadays.
[05:26] <cjwatson> whoopsie. sorry for breaking hibernate for everyone. fixed in powermanagement-interface 0.3.17
[05:35] <whiprush_> meffie: hi
[06:01] <IntuitiveNipple> cjwatson: Thanks for that :)
[06:37] <DoctorMO> prod: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PimSyncPlan
[06:37] <DoctorMO> I'd like to get feedback on my ideas, something other than 'wow you'd be my hero'
[06:40] <pygi> DoctorMO, :P
[06:43] <LaserJock> yes
[06:43] <LaserJock> we are full of good ideas that never get implemented :-)
[06:44] <bluefoxicy> so it looks like Gutsy has totally destroyed the separation of privileges security model on ssh :D
[06:44] <bluefoxicy> is anyone here running feisty still that can snag me something?
[06:45] <LaserJock> bluefoxicy: depends on what it is ;-)
[06:45] <bluefoxicy> LaserJock:  find a pid of sshd, cat /proc/$pid/status | grep CapEff
[06:45] <bluefoxicy> actually, just grep Cap
[06:46] <LaserJock> CapInh:<PHONE_NUMBER>000000
[06:46] <LaserJock> CapPrm: 00000000fffffeff
[06:46] <LaserJock> CapEff: 00000000fffffeff
[06:46] <bluefoxicy> hmm.
[06:47] <bluefoxicy> LaserJock:  check dmesg and see if you see something like "Capability LSM initialized as secondary" twice, one late in the boot process (30 seconds or so)
[06:47] <bluefoxicy> this may not be a gutsy thing (I'm thinking it's the way AppArmor is done right now, but perhaps not...)
[06:48] <IntuitiveNipple> I only see the one in Fiesty 32-bit "[    2.467828]  Capability LSM initialized"
[06:48] <LaserJock> [   20.021888]  Capability LSM initialized
[06:48] <LaserJock> same here, only 1
[06:48] <bluefoxicy> LaserJock:  that's probably way too late.
[06:49] <bluefoxicy> when caps are initialized that late in the boot process, any process before them gets full caps (i.e. the whole separation of privileges model used by things like ssh or anything else that drops caps is destroyed)
[06:49] <bluefoxicy> IntuitiveNipple:  can YOU check to see the CapEff on sshd?  Yours is probably running under something less permissive, I'm guessing...
[06:50] <IntuitiveNipple> bluefoxicy: The same as LaserJock's
[06:50] <IntuitiveNipple> CapInh:<PHONE_NUMBER>000000
[06:50] <IntuitiveNipple> CapPrm: 00000000fffffeff
[06:50] <IntuitiveNipple> CapEff: 00000000fffffeff
[06:51] <bluefoxicy> hmm.  I'm getting the same string after restarting ssh.  Maybe I'm wrong on how this works.
[06:53] <bluefoxicy> LJ, IN:  thanks.
[06:53] <LaserJock> np
[06:55] <cjwatson> bluefoxicy: ssh doesn't use capabilities as such, just seteuid etc.
[06:58] <cjwatson> bluefoxicy: I suspect you'll find the sshd network child process still drops its privileges just fine
[06:58] <bluefoxicy> cjwatson: hmm.  Theo gave a presentation touting the capabilities sep.. oh ok
[06:58] <bluefoxicy> that's probably working then, since the child process will exec() angd get caps.
[06:59] <cjwatson> bluefoxicy: you misunderstood the word "capabilities". also OpenSSH people always talk about "privilege separation" not "capability separation".
[06:59] <bluefoxicy> cjwatson:  they talk about privilege separation using capabilites IIRC
[06:59] <cjwatson> wrong.
[07:00] <cjwatson> sshd forks a child which chroots to an empty jail, does setgroups+setregid+setreuid, listens to network communication, and passes sanitised versions of that communication over a simple protocol to the parent.
[07:00] <cjwatson> so parsing bugs can do much less damage
[07:01] <cjwatson> that's what sshd privsep means
[07:01] <bluefoxicy> hmm o.o
[07:01] <bluefoxicy> I need to research this more.  That seems sane though.
[07:02] <cjwatson> oh and that process is only used during authentication, so you won't see it hanging around afterwards.
[07:03] <cjwatson> i.e. no amount of grep Cap /proc/*/status will show anything interesting unless you nobble sshd to hang around during authentication a bit longer
[07:05] <cjwatson> (after auth, the child with user privileges is perfectly good for parsing network data)
[07:07] <zul> heylo
[07:07] <ion_> hiho
[07:12] <ion_> Really nice that xubuntu-desktop switched to gnome-screensaver.
[07:16] <DoctorMO> LaserJock: yea
[07:46] <jdong> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DevelopmentCodeNames
[07:46] <jdong> "Hard Heron with 5 years of support!"
[07:47] <IntuitiveNipple> You just wait for Grumpy!
[07:49] <IntuitiveNipple> is that a flavour of hog? :p
[07:53] <IntuitiveNipple> For "I", I'd love to see 'Inquisitive Imp' :)
[08:24] <alesan> re
[08:26] <alesan> do you have any idea what is the package for the "logout" button? gnome people told me it is ubuntu-patched
[08:33] <LaserJock> alesan: boy, I have no idea
[08:35] <alesan> any idea how to find out? I would very much like to disable the "fading" thing
[08:36] <ScottK> If I were to guess it would be in gdm, but no promises.
[08:40] <alesan> ok thanks
[08:40] <alesan> bye
[08:43] <gnomefreak> ski would think either gdm or gnome-session
[08:43] <gnomefreak> gnome-session-manager if not gnome-session
[09:17] <mike> desrt you here?
[09:22] <mike> desrt told me to use 7.10 tribe 5, but my monitor res is acting up big time
[10:56] <asac> stgraber: there?
[10:59] <stgraber> asac: yep
[10:59] <asac> cool
[10:59] <asac> sorry been out for the day ;)
[11:00] <asac> stgraber: are you still in the same environment (where nm associates with the open-network?)
[11:00] <stgraber> yes
[11:01] <stgraber> any idea why NM would associate with the first network it finds even if it's connected to wired and then shouldn't do anything with vlan ?
[11:01] <asac> good what does sudo iwlist scan give you?
[11:01] <asac> stgraber: does network-manager know about the first network?
[11:02] <asac> stgraber: e.g. is it displayed as connected ... or did you find out with ifconfig et al
[11:03] <stgraber> it's not marked as connected but I can see the associate using iwconfig
[11:03] <asac> yes ok that makes sense then
[11:04] <stgraber> my current test is : connect to wired LAN, then kill ipw3945d and unload ipw3945, then reload it
[11:04] <asac> stgraber: can you explicitly switch back to wired after that?
[11:04] <stgraber> NM is still connected to the wired LAN but iwconfig shows the association to the open net
[11:04] <mjg59> asac: I can't associate my ipw3945 with an open network. It seems the driver never sends the association event.
[11:04] <asac> mjg59: yes for open networks its probably a driver bug
[11:04] <stgraber> doing the same with NM turned off doesn't automatically associate
[11:05] <asac> mjg59: however it appears to work better with wpa supplicant ... no idea why its different
[11:06] <stgraber> asac: what do you mean by "after that", at this point I never disconnect from wired LAN nor asked NM to connect to a WLAN
[11:17] <asac> stgraber: so you are just associated without ip?
[11:17] <stgraber> yes
[11:18] <asac> stgraber: ok then nm didn't receive the association event
[11:18] <stgraber> I'm connected on my wired network, then load the ipw3945 driver and a few seconds after iwconfig shows an association
[11:18] <stgraber> but I never asked NM to connect to a wifi network :)
[11:18] <asac> stgraber: what do you see in logs?
[11:19] <asac> does nm officially try to bring up the interface?
[11:19] <stgraber> no
[11:20] <stgraber> http://paste.stgraber.org/3263
[11:20] <asac> the logs don't even mention the device?
[11:20] <stgraber> ^ What happens after the "modprobe ipw3945"
[11:21] <asac> stgraber: ok ... can you try to explicitly reconnect to the wired network
[11:21] <asac> then do the driver reload?
[11:23] <stgraber> exactly the same behaviour, I load the driver, the second after it's connect to an open wlan
[11:38] <deadchip> is Scott Tankard around maybe?
[11:39] <deadchip> i've got something for the automated-testing proposals
[11:39] <deadchip> i'm the upstream maintainer of BMP, and the old XMMS based BMP is proposed for the automated testing stuff, but it's an deprecated app
[11:39] <deadchip> BMPx has replaced it since a good while from our side, and it would be much better if it would receive the testing instead
[11:40] <deadchip> it's available in Debian and thus to ubuntu users at the moment through Debian
[11:40] <deadchip> however I don't want to just change this in the wiki
[11:40] <deadchip> anyone knows whom i can contact about this?
[11:41] <deadchip> ermm Scott T. is just the last editor of the page i don't know if he's the guy responsible for this
[11:44] <ScottK> A link to the page you are discussing wouldn't hurt.
[11:44] <mhb> yes
[11:44] <mhb> ScottK: I thought the same thing :o)
[11:45] <asac> stgraber:
[11:45] <asac>         /* Device must be up before we can scan */
[11:45] <asac>         if (nm_device_bring_up_wait (NM_DEVICE (self), 1))
[11:47] <stgraber> asac: yes, but doing : modprobe ipw3945 + ifconfig eth1 up doesn't associate without NM
[11:47] <crimsun> deadchip: to which URL are you referring?
[11:47] <deadchip> crimsun: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Suite/Desktop
[11:48] <deadchip> well i've changed it now, as the edit history showed other people added their apps there, etc
[11:48] <deadchip> it's really no use at all to add BMP to the testing because upstream (we) won't be making any changes to it
[11:48] <crimsun> right, that's fine.
[11:48] <geser> doko: you forgot to change the maintainer field for your last upload of gcc-snapshot to Debian unstable
[11:48] <deadchip> so everything that would be a potential fix would end with ubuntu developers
[11:48] <deadchip> ok
[11:54] <asac> stgraber: what network manager does from what i see is just unsetting the essid to "" ... then scanning
[11:54] <asac> maybe you get an association if you just do that?
[11:56] <stgraber> asac: ok, just tried and indeed doing : iwconfig eth1 essid "" makes the card to associate
[11:57] <asac> ok then its either a feature or a driver bug
[11:57] <asac> so what issue is left?
[11:57] <asac> you cannot connect to open networks right?
[11:59] <stgraber> asac: yes
[11:59] <asac> ok
[11:59] <asac> you have nm sources?
[12:00] <stgraber> asac: and I think that automatic association might be the problem (as it shouldn't be associated and asking NM to connect to a public WLAN doesn't make it associate to the selected one)
[12:00] <asac> stgraber: nm-device-802-11-wireless.c line 531 533
[12:00] <stgraber> I think so but I'll have to update them anyway (didn't pull for a while)
[12:00] <stgraber> asac: ubuntu.0.6.x ?
[12:00] <asac> there is are association / disassociation event cases there that appear to be not processed
[12:01] <asac> stgraber: yes
[12:01] <asac> stgraber: maybe add nm_info("wireless_event_helper - associated event");
[12:02] <asac> stgraber: and nm_info("wireless_event_helper - disassociated event");
[12:02] <asac> to see if you get those events
[12:02] <stgraber> k
[12:04] <asac> stgraber: while you build ... can you post a log of a connect attempt to open network?
[12:05] <stgraber> I'm updating my pbuilder, as soon as I no longer need the network I'll
[12:05] <asac> k
[12:08] <stgraber> asac: http://paste.stgraber.org/3288
[12:09] <asac> stgraber: what does iwconfig show you?
[12:09] <asac> stgraber: are you associated?
[12:09] <asac> when it hangs in stage 1
[12:10] <stgraber> yes I'm asociated but I also was before asking NM to connect
[12:11] <stgraber> s/also/already/
[12:11] <asac> yes right
[12:15] <asac> stgraber: its starnge that you only see "DevicePrepare ) scheduled" ... but not *started*
[12:15] <stgraber> asac: http://paste.stgraber.org/3289
[12:15] <asac> its not much that could go wrong ... its basically just an idle timeout
[12:15] <stgraber> with the two nm_info lines
[12:16] <asac> stgraber: ok can you do a connect attempt now
[12:16] <asac> and wait till nm gives up ... at best note which time that is in log :)
[12:17] <stgraber> I doubt it'll give up, I always had to kill it as I wasn't even able to select wired connection :)
[12:17] <asac> huh?
[12:17] <asac> hmm
[12:17] <asac> sounds reasonable
[12:17] <asac> maybe a dead log?
[12:18] <asac> i mean i wondered why preparation is not started for you ... its basically just attaching and idle source
[12:18] <asac> so not much that could go wrong
[12:18] <asac> s/dead log/deadlock/
[12:21] <stgraber> this try seems a bit better (which is strange as nothing is different except the two nm_info ...) : http://paste.stgraber.org/3290
[12:21] <stgraber> and I was able to switch back to wired LAN
[12:21] <stgraber> but no disassociated/associated event line shown :(
[12:22] <asac> stgraber: i don't see any association event now
[12:22] <asac> didn't you reload driver?
[12:25] <stgraber> this log start just before I click on the open wlan name in NM, the NM auto-association was before I think
[12:25] <asac> but you are associated to another network? or the right one?
[12:25] <stgraber> I only have one open network here, so it's the same network I'm automatically associated to and I'm trying to connect
[12:26] <asac> stgraber: ok now switching rflink ?
[12:26] <asac> what happens then?
[12:27] <stgraber> switching rflink ?
[12:27] <asac> well turn radio off and on
[12:27] <asac> there should be something :)
[12:27] <stgraber> a ok, let me try
[12:30] <stgraber> works
[12:30] <asac> what did yousee in log?
[12:30] <asac> did you just get an assocaited event?
[12:31] <stgraber> if I do it while it's at stage 1 or just before it doesn't work (iwconfig shows unassociated), if it's at stage 2 or after it just works fine


[05:08] <guiverc2> fyi:  I just had a second /var/crash/_sbin/plymouthd.0.crash report on first boot (post 18.04.3 install i386); I've not submitted lp.bug.report; just noted in comments; yell now if you want bug report (sudo ubuntu-bug doesn't open firefox so I assume duplicate..)
[19:49] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin 2.3.3 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin-2-3-3-released-tp55119.html (by Graeme Gott)