[00:00] <joejaxx> s1024kb: are you on feisty?
[00:00] <s1024kb> i typed  sudo debootstrap --variant=buildd --arch i386 gusty /var/chroot/ http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/
[00:00] <s1024kb> gusty
[00:00] <joejaxx> wth?
[00:00] <joejaxx> that is interesting
[00:01] <Fujitsu> s1024kb: You can't spell gutsy.
[00:01] <joejaxx> ahh
[00:01] <joejaxx> right
[00:01] <joejaxx> gu*tsy*
[00:02] <rexbron> hmm
[00:02] <rexbron> is it allowed to have a python-<foo>-dev package?
[00:02] <s1024kb> sorry, thank you all.  i mistyped the word...now, okay
[00:03] <rexbron> for python extentions
[00:03] <joejaxx> s1024kb: :)
[00:03] <rexbron> s/is/are/
[00:08] <s1024kb> excuse me, last night i wanted to build my first package "hello" according to the packing guide basic scratch, i made the changlog, control, copyright and rules in the debian folder, and type dpkg-buildpackage -S -rfakeroot, but it did not work...
[00:09] <somerville32> do: dpkg -S -sa
[00:11] <LaserJock> ok people, I need to identify a cable
[00:11] <s1024kb> excuse me, where to find the postinst and prerm files?
[00:11] <Fujitsu> s1024kb: In debian/?
[00:11] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: What do you mean identify? What kind it is?
[00:12] <s1024kb> Fujistu: no? because the debian folder was made by myself...
[00:12] <Fujitsu> s1024kb: Then you need to write them..
[00:12] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: ok, so it's got one end that 9pin with |O|O| on it
[00:12] <LaserJock> and the other end looks like cat5
[00:12] <LaserJock> but maybe wider
[00:12] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: Probably a rollover cable.
[00:12] <rexbron> D-SUB to ethernet?
[00:13] <Fujitsu> For connecting to router console ports and the like.
[00:13] <s1024kb> Fujitsu: could you please tell me where i can find them?
[00:13] <s1024kb> Fujitsu: i mean the template
[00:13] <Fujitsu> s1024kb: What do you mean? If you're writing a package, you need to write them.
[00:13] <Fujitsu> I don't know of one.
[00:13] <Fujitsu> But there may be one.
[00:14] <LaserJock> dh-make I think creates some templates
[00:14] <azeem> debhelper might create them just as well if needed
[00:14] <azeem> not sure
[00:14] <Fujitsu> azeem: If they don't exist, it will.
[00:14] <Fujitsu> s1024kb: For what do you need them?
[00:14] <azeem> ok
[00:15] <LaserJock> ok, I've got another adapter that looks like parallel port -> 9pin
[00:15] <s1024kb> Fujitsu: just according to the guide... i don't know...
[00:15] <LaserJock> does that sound right?
[00:15] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: That's just DB25 serial to DB9 serial.
[00:16] <LaserJock> hmm
[00:22] <somerville32> TheMuso, uploaded
[00:22] <TheMuso> somerville32: To revu? Ok just a sec.
[00:22] <somerville32> TheMuso, WIll be a few secs before it appears
[00:22] <LaserJock> woot, I found a serial mouse
[00:23] <LaserJock> but I can't find a keyboard cable :(
[00:26] <zul> hah there is a hockey game on tonight so i wont be around much
[00:27] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: A keyboard cable? Aren't they normally built into the keyboard?
[00:27] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: well, yes and no
[00:27] <LaserJock> :-)
[00:27] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: I found a Sun keyboard, but without the cable
[00:27] <Fujitsu> Ah.
[00:28] <LaserJock> at least it's got a VGA out
[00:28] <LaserJock> so I don't have to find an adapter for that
[00:34] <LaserJock> hmm, interesting
[00:35] <LaserJock> I was looking in the lab next door for a keyboard and found a sparc ultra 5
[00:37] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: YOu just have old sparcs lying around?
[00:37] <LaserJock> well, kinda yeah
[00:38] <LaserJock> and an alpha somewhere
[00:38] <LaserJock> but I think maybe it got thrown out
[00:39] <LaserJock> I don't suppose you can just unplug a sun keyboard and plug it back in and have it work?
[00:40] <Fujitsu> No idea.
[00:40] <LaserJock> I just found another sparc across the hall
[00:40] <Fujitsu> I haven't been near a sparc in a decade.
[00:40] <LaserJock> with keyboard+mouse
[00:40] <LaserJock> but it's currently running
[00:41] <somerville32> TheMuso, How goes it?
[00:42] <TheMuso> somerville32: Sorry on something else atm, will get to it as my next task.
[00:42] <LaserJock> hmm, firefox 1.04, this thing is a tad old
[00:56] <ajmitch> hello Hobbsee
[00:56] <TheMuso> Heya Hobbsee.
[00:56] <Hobbsee> greetings!
[00:59] <tonyyarusso> ah, better place
[00:59] <tonyyarusso> Are there any licenses approved by the FSF and not by the OSI?
[00:59] <ajmitch> you'd probably have to compare lists to see
[01:00] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: did you have to kill anyone at work?
[01:02] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: no, surprsingly.  the girl called in sick.
[01:02] <ajmitch> that's a surprise
[01:03] <LaserJock> oh man, I hope this is an email typo: https://launchpad.net/disrtos/ubuntu/+source/update-manager/+filebug
[01:03] <Hobbsee> not really :)
[01:03] <ajmitch> LaserJock: why, where do you see that link?
[01:03] <LaserJock> ajmitch: in an email to launchpad-users about somebody having a problem upgrading Kubuntu
[01:03]  * ajmitch imagines that it is just a simple typo
[01:03] <LaserJock> well, they got an oops
[01:04] <ajmitch> given how many bugs were filed against that package anyway
[01:04] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: 404s OOPS.
[01:04] <LaserJock> right
[01:04] <rexbron> Question: A python package includes <foo>.so, .la. .so.0 and .so.0.0.5 . Do you split it into a -dev package like a normal lib?
[01:04] <LaserJock> so if it's a 404 then that's really bad
[01:04] <rexbron> s/package/extention/g
[01:05] <ajmitch> LaserJock: given how many other typos were in his email, I'd say it was typed in, and he misspelt it
[01:05] <LaserJock> but then why would he get an OOPS
[01:05] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: Because 404s are OOPSes too.
[01:05] <LaserJock> or does he have to manually type that address in to report the bug
[01:05] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: I know!
[01:05] <Fujitsu> Oh, I see.
[01:06] <ajmitch> he probably manually typed it in to file the bug
[01:06] <ajmitch> everyone else managed to flood launchpad with upgrade failures
[01:06] <LaserJock> what I'm saying is if he's OOPSed because of an incorrect URL given by update-manger then that's bad
[01:06] <ajmitch> we know what you mean
[01:06]  * Fujitsu gets it now.
[01:06] <LaserJock> ajmitch: no everybody ;-)
[01:07] <ajmitch> well, not *everybody*, but there were more than enough bugs filed successfully
[01:07] <ajmitch> from ubuntu & kubuntu alike
[01:07]  * rexbron is sad that noone has an idea
[01:08] <LaserJock> rexbron: so it must not be a pure python package
[01:08] <ajmitch> rexbron: if it's building shared libs like that, and sticking them into /usr/lib, it's not a normal python extension
[01:10] <rexbron> err, debian python policy defines a "module" as pure python, where an extention is written in C or C++
[01:10] <ajmitch> yes
[01:10] <rexbron> I just need to know if I need to seperate it into its own -dev package or whether it should ship all the files
[01:10] <Fujitsu> A normal python extension just has a single .so lurking in a python directory in /usr/lib, doesn't it?
[01:10] <ajmitch> Fujitsu: correct, and usually prefixed with a _
[01:10] <Fujitsu> Yep.
[01:10] <joejaxx> hmm
[01:11] <ajmitch> eg python-mysqldb has /usr/lib/python-support/python-mysqldb/python2.5/_mysql.so
[01:11] <rexbron> Fujitsu: currently I am linking the so into python-support
[01:11] <Fujitsu> Though that's not a requirement, is it?
[01:11] <joejaxx> anyone here have a 4965AGN?
[01:11] <ajmitch> Fujitsu: unknown
[01:11] <joejaxx> ipw4965AGN that is
[01:11] <rexbron> ajmitch: that is what I am doing as of now
[01:11] <ajmitch> but I've seen no python extension that builds with a SONAME like that
[01:11] <Fujitsu> They shouldn't even have SONAMEs...
[01:11] <Fujitsu> Yeah.
[01:11] <rexbron> meh, smack upstream
[01:12] <joejaxx> http://www.intel.com/support/wireless/wlan/sb/CS-025330.htm << nice
[01:13] <ajmitch> joejaxx: sorry, I'm not rich enough
[01:14] <joejaxx> ajmitch: ? :\
[01:14]  * ajmitch would need to get a new laptop to use that
[01:14] <ajmitch> and I don't have money to burn on a new laptop
[01:16] <rexbron> If some one would be kind enough to review Genpo, I'd appreciate it. http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=genpo
[01:25] <jdong> LaserJock: hey, you in the mood for another braindead (easier than last time by far) chem question?
[01:26] <LaserJock> jdong: what's up?
[01:26] <jdong> LaserJock: ok, for a weak base strong acid titration....
[01:26] <jdong> LaserJock: I am past the equivalence point, and adding another mL of acid
[01:27] <jdong> LaserJock: is it safe at that point to ignore the effects of the conjugate acid?
[01:27] <jdong> or must I do one of them silly ICE thingies?
[01:29] <LaserJock> sorry, one sec, cleaning some optics
[01:32] <LaserJock> man, that mirror did not want to go back in
[01:32] <somerville32> TheMuso, moogle? :]
[01:35] <LaserJock> jdong: well, so will the conjugate acid of the weak base be strong or weak?
[01:35] <TheMuso> somerville32: Just doing an install/remove test of cheese, but it looks good.
[01:36] <somerville32> TheMuso, Awesome.
[01:36] <jdong> LaserJock: NH3 titrated with HCL, I wouldn't expect NH4+ to be that big of a deal compared to HCL, right? :)
[01:36] <LaserJock> jdong: I wouldn't think so
[01:37] <jdong> LaserJock: ok I'll just make that assumption for now.
[01:38] <somerville32> There should be some documentation on the QA that should take place before uploading.
[01:38] <LaserJock> what QA? ;-)
[01:38] <somerville32> lol
[01:39] <rexbron> If someone has some spare time and is looking for a review, take a peek at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=openlibraries . Just don't do a debdiff with the previous versions, its a new svn checkout
[01:39] <somerville32> rexbron, Maybe give us a diff of the debian/ directory on pastebin?
[01:40] <rexbron> sure
[01:40] <somerville32> I'm thinking of trying a new web browser
[01:40] <somerville32> I want something light, fast, but powerful
[01:40] <somerville32> Suggestions?
[01:40] <TheMuso> somerville32: Successfully uploaded packages.
[01:41] <rexbron> somerville32: pick two, :)
[01:41] <somerville32> TheMuso, Thanks a bunch.
[01:41] <somerville32> lol
[01:41] <somerville32> fast and powerful
[01:41] <rexbron> Where'd ma memoriz go?
[01:41] <TheMuso> somerville32: You're welcome.
[01:42] <jdong> LaserJock: mmmkay I calculated both ways just for fun, [H+] thanks to NH4+ is like smaller by 10^9 thanks to HCl shoving its equilibrium over to NH4+ state :)
[01:42] <jdong> silly for me to have even worried in the first place.
[01:46] <Fujitsu> Yay, Gutsy CDs arrived.
[01:46] <somerville32> What?!
[01:46] <somerville32> I didn't get mine yet.
[01:46] <jdong> that fast?
[01:49] <Fujitsu> jdong: Yeah.
[01:49] <Fujitsu> A friend nearby got his yesterday.
[01:50] <jdong> awesome
[01:51] <rexbron> Anyone who is interested in reviewing OpenLibraries, have a look at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/43619/ for a diff of the debian directories.
[01:51] <rexbron> somerville32: ^
[01:52] <somerville32> rexbron, Erm. Is this a diff against the debian directory of the last package release?
[01:52] <rexbron> somerville32: new package
[01:52] <somerville32> So where is the diff?
[01:53] <somerville32> (*from)
[01:53] <rexbron> the previous package on revu
[01:53] <somerville32> Ahmuck, okay.
[01:54]  * rexbron is beat, the packages are uploaded to revu. Sleep time
[01:56] <TheMuso> somerville32: What were you referring to re moogle earlier?
[01:57] <somerville32> TheMuso, It is a meaningless word. I forget the technical term for meaningless words - does anyone know?
[01:57] <TheMuso> somerville32: Ah ok.
[01:57] <somerville32> I suppose it could be an example of onomatopoeia
[02:00]  * RAOF thought 'moogle' was a critter from Final Fantasy :)
[02:06] <pwnguin> moot
[02:06] <somerville32> Where isth the ubuntu-science thinger?
[02:06] <somerville32> with the packages comparison between ubuntu and debian
[02:07]  * persia thinks somerville32 should bookmark http://people.ubuntu.org.au/~fujitsu/motuscience/versions/universe.html
[02:08]  * somerville32 will be this time.
[02:08]  * Hobbsee thinks it should all be shoved onto one place.
[02:08] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: 'it'?
[02:09] <Hobbsee> all the scripts
[02:10] <Hobbsee> and an ajmitch.  he can go in teh cupboard
[02:10] <persia> Hobbsee: Yeah, well, that's on my list for the upcoming weekend.  I'm hoping we'll have one or two other things in good shaps as well (updated rcbugs, updated ftbfs tracker)
[02:10] <ajmitch> :(
[02:10]  * ajmitch is cupboarded
[02:11] <somerville32> persia is a smart cookie.
[02:11] <ajmitch> persia: I take it we don't need an updated mdt thingy then
[02:11] <persia> ajmitch: If you can produce something different and more useful by this weekend, you'll get pride of place in my updates to the wiki :)
[02:12] <persia> (I'd like comments, better removal detection, watch file check, and more, but I'm probably dreaming)
[02:12] <ajmitch> so if I don't do it soon, I may as well not bother?
[02:12] <ajmitch> ok
[02:12] <Fujitsu> Removal detection should be OK, except for ftp-master being toast.
[02:13] <somerville32> Now that I'm down with cheese, it is time to do banana
[02:13] <persia> ajmitch: Well, if you don't do it soon, I won't help you with marketing until mid-December.
[02:13] <persia> Fujitsu: It gets a little odd when e.g. things are only in stable, or only in oldstable & experimental, etc.
[02:13] <ajmitch> 'marketing' shoudl not be needed
[02:14] <Fujitsu> persia: It should only track removals from unstable now, which is what we should be tracking.
[02:14] <persia> ajmitch: Well then, there's no need for you to not bother if you don't do it soon :)
[02:15] <ajmitch> persia: it's more if other people are doing something anyway
[02:15] <ajmitch> since we have enough duplication here
[02:15] <persia> Fujitsu: Well, most of the time.  I've had to draft two transition plans this week where we wanted a removal, but need to do a transition because we release more often than Debian: It would be nice to know where Debian has the package for removals, to differentiate packages that never released (for which we need a local transition) from packages that did release (for which we can usually use a Debian transition)
[02:16] <Fujitsu> Ah..
[02:16]  * ajmitch is having lots of fun playing with dojo today
[02:16] <persia> ajmitch: I don't know of anyone reimplementing mdt, and I'm actually more looking forward to an updated rcbugs come DIF than a new mdt.
[02:17] <bddebian> Heya gang
[02:17] <LaserJock> persia: reimplementing?
[02:17] <persia> LaserJock: ajmitch has a 90% complete tool that is very similar to mdt, but not released.
[02:17] <LaserJock> oh
[02:17] <LaserJock> I thought it was more different
[02:18] <LaserJock> mdt has some nice stuff
[02:19] <persia> LaserJock: It may be more different: I only mean it compares package versions and exports the results.  I believe rcbugs relies on part of it for backend processing.
[02:19] <somerville32> Heya bddebian :)
[02:19] <LaserJock> persia: ah, mdt has quite a few other scripts that are nice
[02:19] <LaserJock> for making lists and such
[02:20] <bddebian> Hi somerville32
[02:20] <persia> LaserJock: Perhaps: I'm more looking at it from the perspective of generating task lists for all the people who don't want to do bitesize anymore, but haven't been caught by a specific interest.
[02:20] <bddebian> persia: Fix conquest yet? ;-P
[02:20] <persia> (oh, and people like me)
[02:20] <somerville32> bddebian, conquest the game?
[02:20] <bddebian> yeah
[02:20] <somerville32> I love that game!
[02:21] <somerville32> I'm on the ml for it
[02:21] <bddebian> somerville32: Good, test it for me will ya? :-)
[02:21] <persia> bddebian: No, but I've not looked at it since I told you I wanted to spend time :P
[02:21] <bddebian> Bah, you're fired ;-P
[02:22]  * bddebian is getting like 0 Ubuntu work done since I joined this freakin' team
[02:22]  * persia . pink slip firmly in hand, considers deleting the conquest directory
[02:22] <bddebian> Doh
[02:22] <Fujitsu> bddebian: Which? Debian Games?
[02:22] <bddebian> Aye
[02:22] <ajmitch> LaserJock: well, what I had predated mdt
[02:22] <persia> bddebian: I disagee.  You're doing excellent Ubuntu work: we just have to rely on the autosync to upload.
[02:22] <bddebian> :-)
[02:23] <bddebian> Well that was my intent but tbh, I didn't expect to get this deep into it so fast :-)
[02:23] <ajmitch> so it's not as much reinventing the wheel as it is reviving something ancient
[02:23] <LaserJock> ajmitch: heh
[02:23] <persia> bddebian: You did say "I wish I had time to work on games", it just required giving up on everything else :)
[02:23] <bddebian> heh
[02:23] <Fujitsu> Yay, mass bug-filing for missing debian/watches in Debian!
[02:24] <bddebian> Yeah, wtf is that
[02:24] <persia> ¥o/
[02:24] <Fujitsu> It has actually been done now.
[02:24] <bddebian> I got one for my colorgcc package and upstream is dead
[02:24] <LaserJock> what do they do for svn checkouts and stuff like that?
[02:24] <LaserJock> and what bddebian said
[02:24] <persia> LaserJock: get-orig-source
[02:24] <LaserJock> you use a watch file for that?
[02:25] <somerville32> What is the current standards version?
[02:25]  * Fujitsu thinks <IP_ADDRESS>
[02:25] <LaserJock> 3.7.2
[02:25] <bddebian> Yeah 3.7.2.something
[02:25] <persia> LaserJock: No, but it is the acceptable variance from watch files.  On the other hand, submitting a patch to uscan to check CVS, SVN, BZR, and GIT to see if there is a new revision since the last snapshot would likely be welcome...
[02:26]  * persia thinks that checking one's apt-cache for the debian-standards package is the best way to answer the question
[02:27] <LaserJock> geeze, I can never make these MOTU meetings :/
[02:27] <Fujitsu> When's the next one? I forget..
[02:27] <Fujitsu> Oh, there's a reminder.
[02:27]  * LaserJock thinks he might have to learn Java
[02:27] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: Ew, why?
[02:27] <ajmitch> LaserJock: please, don't do it
[02:28] <LaserJock> well, it's cross-platform
[02:28] <RAOF> So is C.
[02:28] <LaserJock> and it works
[02:28] <persia> LaserJock: What time (UTC) on Friday is good for you?  We'll schedule the 23rd to match your schedule.
[02:28] <RAOF> And Python
[02:28] <Fujitsu> So is Python, and everything.
[02:28] <LaserJock> no
[02:28] <Fujitsu> Java is foul.
[02:28] <LaserJock> not in that sense
[02:28] <bddebian> Java is just Evil(tm)
[02:28] <RAOF> And C++, and C#, and ....
[02:28] <bddebian> JavaScript
[02:28] <Fujitsu> And CLR is general.
[02:28] <bddebian> perl
[02:28] <Fujitsu> And Ruby, and POSIX shell.
[02:28] <LaserJock> my friend was just showing me how we wrote a presentation using a Java app and HTML
[02:28] <Fujitsu> O_o
[02:28] <Fujitsu> That sounds so evil.
[02:28] <LaserJock> the point is he can fairly safely run it on anything
[02:29] <LaserJock> and it works
[02:29] <Fujitsu> JavaScript!
[02:29] <LaserJock> yep
[02:29] <LaserJock> javascript runs a java app
[02:29] <Fujitsu> .... what?
[02:29] <ajmitch> mmm
[02:29] <LaserJock> well, maybe you guys aren't familiar with the pain of chemistry presentations
[02:29]  * Fujitsu admits he probably isn't.
[02:30] <Fujitsu> Java is never the solution, however.
[02:30] <ajmitch> I presume this is using applets or java webstart stuff?
[02:30] <bddebian> I'm not but I can't imagine there's not a better tool than Java though
[02:30] <LaserJock> ajmitch: I don't think so but I honestly don't know for sure
[02:30] <LaserJock> we have a molecular visualization program called Jmol
[02:31] <LaserJock> and so what he's actually done is this (don't choke):
[02:31] <Fujitsu> I love the way the VCAA (educational assessment authority in Victoria) writes their webapps.
[02:31] <LaserJock> 1) us Illustrator to make slides
[02:31] <LaserJock> *use
[02:31] <LaserJock> 2) export those as pngs
[02:31] <Fujitsu> The one to register uni preferences starts off with HTML forms, but then quickly degrades into this Java thing with warnings all over warning you from using browser history functionality.
[02:32] <LaserJock> 3) create a simple HTML file that inserts the .pngs with some fancy CSS
[02:32] <LaserJock> 4) use Javascript to run Jmol with the molecule files
[02:32] <LaserJock> and that's his presentation
[02:32] <LaserJock> now he just carries a USB stick with portable opera and his files
[02:33] <LaserJock> and it "Just Works"
[02:33] <LaserJock> now I would say a huge percentage of chemistry software is written in Java
[02:33] <Fujitsu> If you're using an existing application, why must you learn Java yourself?
[02:33] <LaserJock> because I'm considering building new programs
[02:33] <LaserJock> or working on existing ones
[02:33] <ajmitch> how does it run jmol? does it have to be on the system he's doing the presentation on?
[02:34] <LaserJock> yes
[02:34] <LaserJock> so as long as there is a JVM he's fine, as I understand it
[02:34]  * ajmitch wonders how it's getting around the various security restrictions
[02:34] <ajmitch> it must be doing something like java web start if all you need is a JVM
[02:35] <LaserJock> I don't know
[02:35] <ajmitch> but I don't know java well enough
[02:35] <LaserJock> it could be Jmol has a browser plugin that handles it, I'm not sure
[02:35] <ajmitch> possibly
[02:35] <LaserJock> but he showed me briefly the javascript and it was loading a .jar
[02:35]  * ajmitch gets back to fighting javascript
[02:35]  * Hobbsee fights ajmitch
[02:35] <Fujitsu> ajmitch: What's said JavaScript meant to do?
[02:36] <ajmitch> :(
[02:36] <ajmitch> Fujitsu: just some layout stuff for work
[02:36] <LaserJock> well, the other thing he's thinking of doing is using Flash
[02:36] <LaserJock> so Illustrator, Java, and Flash :-)
[02:37] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: what did I ever do to you?
[02:37] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: try to throw me in the pool.
[02:37] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: he didn't!?!
[02:37] <ajmitch> I would never
[02:37] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: he did too.
[02:38] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: did he make it?
[02:38] <ajmitch> LaserJock: sadly not
[02:38] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: no.  he got speared with a death stare.
[02:38] <Hobbsee> as did his partner in crime.
[02:38] <LaserJock> ajmitch: why not? you've got *cough* a mass advantage *cough* ;-)
[02:39]  * tonyyarusso would be amused by such things - needs UDS tickets
[02:39] <ajmitch> LaserJock: Hobbsee must hold a grudge for years
[02:39] <tonyyarusso> LaserJock: and there were TWO of them
[02:39]  * ajmitch decides to skip LCA
[02:41] <somerville32> :]
[02:41] <tonyyarusso> LCA?
[02:41] <ajmitch> linux.conf.au
[02:41] <ajmitch> Hobbsee will most likely kill me if I turn up
[02:41] <Hobbsee> nah...
[02:41] <Hobbsee> not kill you...
[02:41] <ajmitch> worse?
[02:41]  * Fujitsu should probably go.
[02:42] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: yes, you shoudl.
[02:42] <ScottK> Fujitsu: To watch Hobbsee kill (maim or other) ajmitch?
[02:42] <Fujitsu> ScottK: Probably.
[02:42] <LaserJock> yeah
[02:42] <Fujitsu> Plus it's in Melbourne.
[02:42] <TheMuso> Hobbsee will most likely not turn up.
[02:42] <LaserJock> I'd pay for that
[02:42] <LaserJock> ;-)
[02:42] <Hobbsee> heh
[02:42] <Hobbsee> it depends.  we'll see
[02:42] <Hobbsee> TheMuso: are you coming?
[02:42] <TheMuso> Hobbsee: Not at this point, I can't garentee I'll have the funds to get there.
[02:43] <TheMuso> So very likely not.
[02:43] <TheMuso> unfortunately, as LCA07 was a blast.
[02:43]  * ajmitch feels picked on
[02:43] <Hobbsee> TheMuso: :(
[02:43]  * Fujitsu throws some stones at ajmitch.
[02:44]  * ajmitch gives up & goes back to doing work
[02:44] <TheMuso> Hobbsee: And then theres a fact that I may have a job that I can't take time off from.
[02:44] <Hobbsee> this is true
[02:44] <Hobbsee> someone should offer me a job.  that would be nice.
[02:45] <Hobbsee> </wishful thinking>
[02:45]  * persia offers Hobbsee the job of global fisheries omsbudman
[02:45] <Hobbsee> the what now?
[02:45] <TheMuso> lol
[02:46] <persia> Hobbsee: There's a current market gap in listening to the problems of people who fish in international waters.  There are grants available, someone just has to promise to listen to everyone and propose possibilities for dispute resolution.
[02:47] <Hobbsee> ah.
[02:48]  * ajmitch can't imagine Hobbsee doing dispute resolution
[02:48] <bddebian> I can
[02:48] <somerville32> Me too
[02:48] <bddebian> I'd like to have her and her pointystick at my office ;-)
[02:48] <ScottK> bddebian: I saw you paid a visit to #debian-python.  How'd that work out for you?
[02:48] <somerville32> XD
[02:48] <bddebian> ScottK: Actually very well thanks
[02:49]  * somerville32 goes for an apple juice break.
[02:49] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: really now?
[02:49] <ScottK> bddebian: Cool.  They're usually pretty reasonable.
[02:49] <bigon> does someone have any objection if I upload a new git snapshot for xcompmgr?
[02:50] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: not in any way that doesn't involve beating people up
[02:50] <persia> bigon: Are there actual releases?  Alternately, can something useful be cherrypicked instead?  If the answer to both is no, I don't
[02:51] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: you'd be surprised.
[02:52] <RAOF> bigon: What?  Work has been done on xcompmgr?
[02:52] <bigon> persia: I dont find any stable release (the only release I found on fd.o are 3years old)
[02:52] <bigon> RAOF: http://gitweb.freedesktop.org/?p=xorg/app/xcompmgr.git;a=summary
[02:53] <bigon> there was a commit yesterday :o
[02:53] <RAOF> But nothing interesting for 7 months.
[02:54] <RAOF> bigon: Incidentally, please remind me to push my branch of libgnome-keyring-cil with a get-orig-source target when I get home :)
[02:54] <bddebian> Damn OFTC is quiet
[02:55] <bigon> RAOF: it's 4 am here so it will be for tomorrow
[02:55] <RAOF> :)
[02:56] <bigon> persia: I will upload my version, it fix bug with gnome-terminal (the true transparency doesn't work with gnome-terminal)
[02:56] <RAOF> So, there are a couple of actual bugfixes since our last git snapshot.  I'd be happy with a new snapshot.
[03:16] <somerville32> Is it my duty to clean up debian/rules when I update a package to a new release?
[03:17] <bddebian> somerville32: Ideally, yes
[03:17] <bddebian> At least that's my philosophy
[03:17] <somerville32> Some of them I'm scarred to touch they're such a mess :P
[03:17] <bddebian> You should see conquest ;-)
[03:18] <somerville32> And I have no idea how some of these packages even got into the archives :/
[03:18] <bddebian> I hear ya.    The middle name is in the GPG key too?
[03:27] <chillywilly> happy late release day...boy where did Oct. go?
[03:27] <chillywilly> months are just flying by for me...
[03:28]  * chillywilly dist-upgrade's
[03:33] <somerville32> Is a debian/patches/00list thing needed?
[03:33] <bddebian> If you use dpatch, yes
[03:33] <somerville32> In a debian package, I just saw series
[03:33] <bddebian> That's for quilt
[03:34] <somerville32> okay :)
[03:35] <chillywilly> wow, ~9Mbit down from the ubuntu mirror
[03:35] <chillywilly> weeeeeeeeeee
[03:39] <chillywilly> what does it mean if you have 400MB of irc logs?
[03:39] <bigon> gn
[03:57] <somerville32> I wonder if my 333 could manage building two packages at once
[03:57] <TheMuso> Depends on how big the packages are.
[03:57] <ScottK> somerville32: Sure.  Just a question of how long it takes and if the OOM killer gets you.
[03:58] <persia> somerville32: It can, but it will be slow.  If you can convince it to build off two different physical discs simultaneously, it will do better (package construction is often I/O bound on slower machines)
[04:04] <somerville32> I love how this package just compiles a windows application and than runs it with mono.
[04:04] <somerville32> Pretty nifty.
[04:04] <persia> somerville32: mingw?
[04:04] <somerville32> youtranslate
[04:04] <somerville32> err.. I don't think it uses mingw
[04:05] <persia> Ah.  Windows-targeted mono app?  Sounds like Java
[04:06] <somerville32> The debian/rules was a mess
[04:07] <somerville32> ogmz.
[04:07] <somerville32> I did it again.
[04:07]  * somerville32 slams his head into... a pike.
[04:07]  * persia gently suggests that impalement is never a solution to a lintian warning
[04:07] <somerville32> No, my build failed
[04:08] <somerville32> I put dh_installman notecase.1
[04:08] <somerville32> When it should have been dh_installman debian/notecase.1
[04:08]  * persia likes debian/notecase.manpages
[04:08]  * LaserJock makes a pizza sacrifice and dances around a boxed set of the Sopranos to summon nixternal
[04:08] <somerville32> persia, I'm going to start doing that because this is the second time
[04:08] <somerville32> And building takes for ever on this box
[04:09] <somerville32> It would be super nice if imbrandon let me have shell access to one of his servers :P
[04:09] <persia> somerville32: Warning: you're starting down the road towards the dangerous dark magic that is CDBS...
[04:09] <bddebian> LaserJock: hehe
[04:09] <somerville32> lol
[04:09] <superm1_> somerville32, i just returned
[04:10] <superm1_> somerville32, do you still need some help?
[04:10] <somerville32> superm1_, I'm not sure what I asked for. However, I'm about to upload a package to revu :)
[04:10] <superm1_> somerville32, okay
[04:12] <somerville32> superm1_, Actually, it'll most likely be 15-20 minutes depending if it is lintian clean
[04:12]  * somerville32 has a slow box.
[04:13] <somerville32> What is the upgrade path for Hoary?
[04:14] <StevenK> Via Breezy
[04:14] <StevenK> Which is also EOL'd
[04:14] <persia> somerville32: You missed it: reinstall
[04:14] <LaserJock> I'm honestly a bit unsure of what "upgrade path" means
[04:14] <TheMuso> lol
[04:14] <LaserJock> I always hear about making sure there's an upgrade path, etc.
[04:14] <somerville32> persia, The person is remote
[04:15] <somerville32> StevenK, The repository is still available though, right?
[04:15] <persia> LaserJock: Theoretically it means that we've taken the time to set the maintainer scripts to support a direct upgrade from X to Y, and that every package that suffered a transition has the correct depends, conflicts, and replaces to upgrade smoothly and maintain system functionality.
[04:15] <StevenK> Right
[04:16] <LaserJock> persia: basically that an upgrade will work
[04:16] <somerville32> imbrandon, Hey.
[04:16] <somerville32> imbrandon, Do you think you could let me have access to a bug to build on?
[04:17] <imbrandon> ello
[04:17] <bddebian> Heya imbrandon
[04:17] <imbrandon> heya bddebian
[04:17] <imbrandon> somerville32, huh?
[04:17] <somerville32> lmao
[04:17]  * somerville32 dies.
[04:17] <somerville32> box
[04:17] <persia> LaserJock: Right.  An example might be lckdo, which was merged into moreutils:we want a transition package for lockdo that depends on moreutils, and for moreutils to have versioend conflicts / replaces on lockdo for any release which is an upgrade target for gutsy
[04:18] <imbrandon> somerville32, not atm, we're still working on some auth stuff and such, i dont have the resources to just yet
[04:18] <imbrandon> somerville32, sorry
[04:18] <somerville32> imbrandon, :( My resources are limited to 333mhz
[04:18] <LaserJock> how many "community machines" do we have?
[04:18] <persia> ScottK: I think my second agenda item and your agenda item are addressing the same issue.
[04:19] <persia> LaserJock: we're a little scattered, there are at least three clusters of hosts with restricted access of various sorts.
[04:19] <imbrandon> LaserJock, as in ubuntuwire? 2 atm
[04:19] <LaserJock> imbrandon: sparky and?
[04:19] <imbrandon> an un-named one
[04:20] <LaserJock> we should get things sort of documented or something
[04:20] <LaserJock> imbrandon: but what's the arch
[04:20] <imbrandon> LaserJock, we had planned on it, siretart and myself are working out the nss-db login stuff and scaleability and then it will be very well =documented
[04:20] <imbrandon> LaserJock, sparc and ppc atm'
[04:21] <imbrandon> arm and x86 and x86_64 will all come also but this time arround lots of planning etc is going into the management of them
[04:21] <Megaqwerty> Could anyone point me to a manual or tutorial on .install files as they pertain to the "debian" directory?
[04:21] <imbrandon> thus taking a bit longer
[04:22] <persia> Megaqwerty: man dh_install
[04:22] <TheMuso> have you thought of having more than one box per arch?
[04:22] <RAOF> somerville32: If you really like, I can give you access to an x86-64 box.
[04:22] <Megaqwerty> persia: thanks!
[04:22] <somerville32> RAOF, Is it fast? :)
[04:22] <imbrandon> TheMuso, definately, we just want to work on the mgmt first and get it 100% dead to rights THEN we'll add multi machines per arch
[04:23] <imbrandon> in multi locations etc
[04:23] <TheMuso> imbrandon: Right. In that case, I may offer some CPU time when my file server is built.
[04:23] <imbrandon> cool
[04:23] <RAOF> somerville32: Yes.
[04:23] <TheMuso> Dual PIII 1Ghz. at least 2GB RAM, and heaps of disk space.
[04:23] <imbrandon> :)
[04:23] <somerville32> RAOF, is it ready for building?
[04:24] <RAOF> somerville32: Yes.  All I need is an ssh key.  Your launchpad page is...
[04:24] <persia> I think Luca also as a couple build servers up, it might be worth asking him as well if you're looking for cycles.
[04:24] <RAOF> If it's easy enough, my x86-64 server is also not doing anything interesting.
[04:25] <RAOF> (Stupid aerial stupid digital tv :()
[04:25] <LaserJock> imbrandon: I don't know but I might be able to contribute a sparc
[04:25] <RAOF> somerville32: Ok, maybe that's a lie.  Maybe I need to restart this box before schroot will work again :)
[04:25] <imbrandon> killer , yea , we'll make a general announcement when we have the system in place
[04:25] <imbrandon> to accept new machines
[04:26] <persia> LaserJock: That reminds me, depending on the contents of NVRAM, pulling the keyboard can stop the OS...
[04:26] <somerville32> RAOF, launchpad.net/~cody-somerville
[04:26] <somerville32> RAOF, I have three. Not sure which one this box is.
[04:32] <LaserJock> anybody know if Debian has any good references on their vast army of machines/services?
[04:33] <StevenK> db.debian.org/machines.cgi
[04:34] <LaserJock> StevenK: was thinking more on management but that's good too
[04:34] <imbrandon> whats all , developer , restricted ?
[04:34] <StevenK> It's access patterns
[04:35] <StevenK> all == DD + man & dog, developer = DD only and restricted is DSA and team only
[04:36] <imbrandon> man & dog ? lol
[04:37] <somerville32>  failed in buffer_read(fd): files list for package `libxosd2': Input/output error ?
[04:44] <imbrandon> StevenK, so whom falls into the "man + dog" category ?
[04:44] <imbrandon> lol
[04:45] <StevenK> imbrandon: Anyone who can justify an account to the DSA, like for porting work
[04:45] <imbrandon> ahh cool
[04:46] <LaserJock> I haven't really understood the recent DSA "thing" going on
[04:47] <imbrandon> i wonder if i could get a ubuntu chroot going on this 200mhz mipsel fon
[04:47] <imbrandon> it has dd-wrt .... /me ssh's in and pokes arround
[04:48] <persia> imbrandon: The main obstacles there are probably 1) storage space, and 2) RAM
[04:48] <somerville32> Where are the file lists for packages kept?
[04:48] <imbrandon> yea ram will be an issue, but the storage has access to 100+GB on NFS
[04:48] <LaserJock> geeze, ries.debian.org is a nice server
[04:49] <imbrandon> thats the ftp-master iirc isnt it
[04:49] <persia> somerville32: Contents.gz, but I don't know they have been generated for hardy
[04:49] <StevenK> LaserJock: Compare to merkel
[04:50] <LaserJock> imbrandon: yeah, 1.3TB of disk space and 16GB of RAM
[04:50] <somerville32> persia, I'm looking for local on hoary
[04:50] <somerville32> And can I safely delete it? lol
[04:50] <LaserJock> StevenK: 48GB of RAM!?!
[04:50] <LaserJock> wow
[04:50] <persia> somerville32: Look in /var/lib/dpkg and /var/lib/apt, and if you delete things, you may find the package managers don't expect as you'd think
[04:51] <StevenK> Heh heh. Everybody says that.
[04:51] <persia> s/expect/act/
[04:51] <persia> LaserJock: It's easy to use, just compile eclipse in tmpfs for several different targets
[04:52] <imbrandon> or load oo.o
[04:52] <imbrandon> :)
[04:53] <LaserJock> hehe, bruckner the ppc port machine is a bit wimpy in comparision 128MB RAM and 18GB storage
[04:54]  * ajmitch wonders what the power bill is like for merkel
[04:56] <LaserJock> hmm, does Canonical/Ubuntu sponsor any Debian machines?
[04:56] <ajmitch> not that I'm aware of
[04:57] <Burgundavia> I know they sponsor at least one GNOME one
[04:57] <LaserJock> we should
[04:57] <LaserJock> looking at the machines and who sponsors them
[04:57] <LaserJock> Sun, Xandros, etc.
[05:09] <somerville32>  Maybe we should get some non-canonical sponsors for Ubuntu?
[05:11] <persia> somerville32: We have a few who donate 20-80 hours/week of development time.  It jus needs a business case where it's 1) easier to use Ubuntu than something else, 2) there's clear value to making changes to Ubuntu rather that maintaining a diff, and 3) There aren't any policy conflicts.
[05:13] <Megaqwerty> If I wanted to make a package that would place a few files on the system (i.e. a few nautilus scripts) does anyone know where I could learn to do that?
[05:15] <persia> Megaqwery.  I'd suggest you first prepare a tar.gz of the scripts and what not in an editable layout, and a Makefile to install them in the right place.  You could then use this as a base of for a package.
[05:15] <persia> On the other hand, you might want to look at one of the existing nautilus script type packages to see how someone else did it.
[05:23] <Megaqwerty> persia: thanks. Could you point me to a good makefile guide? (I'll check out existing packages as well)
[05:25] <persia> Megaqwerty: http://www.gnu.org/software/make/manual/make.html
[05:25] <persia> !packaging | Megaqwerty
[05:25] <Megaqwerty> thanks persia
[05:25] <ubotu> Megaqwerty: The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources - See also !backports
[05:26] <persia> Grrr...  Not there.  Visit https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide  It's a work-in-progress, but it's not nearly as out of date.
[05:42] <Hobbsee>  /me pokes persia
[05:42]  * Hobbsee pokes persia
[05:42]  * persia steals all of Hobbsee's spaces
[05:43] <Hobbsee> heh :)
[05:50] <somerville32> joejaxx, update the stats :P
[05:57]  * TheMuso ponders filing a request to get his ISP to mirror lpia, but doesn't think its worth the bother since he rarely touches it anyway.
[05:58] <persia> TheMuso: I thought you were looking at a local mirror anyway
[05:59] <TheMuso> persia: My local mirror would be using my ISP's mirror as a base.
[05:59] <TheMuso> I don't have that much quota to spare.
[06:00] <persia> Ah.  I didn't realise the quota was based on access beyond the ISP, rather than access over the local link.
[06:01] <TheMuso> persia: Yeah. My ISP has a quota free mirror, that only mirrors i386, sparc, amd64, and powerpc.
[06:02] <persia> TheMuso: Source as well, I'd hope.  Still, if you plan to run lpia, you'll want to bug them about it.
[06:02] <TheMuso> persia: Yes source as well.
[06:03] <TheMuso> persia: Well I was thinking only to help fix lpia universe ftbfs bugs, but I guess at this point its not that important.
[06:03] <persia> TheMuso: Hmmm....  It's a worthwhile thing to do, although I think we've still lots of FTBFS on your mirrored architectures.
[06:08] <somerville32> Developing ubuntu is going to kill my old hard drive :/
[06:08] <persia> somerville32: Just get more RAM.  Once you go above 4GB, pbuilder/sbuild IO goes down to almost nothing.
[06:09] <somerville32> I doubt the bio can handle more than 256mb or 512mb
[06:09] <persia> somerville32: Check your motherboard against one of the free bios implementations: if it's that old, it might be supported.
[06:10] <somerville32> persia, My build-dep depends on a package in universe
[06:10] <somerville32> persia, But my pbuilder doesn't seem to be bringing it in
[06:10] <persia> does your pbuilder have universe in sources.list?
[06:10] <somerville32> If i edit my sources.list while logged in, will that fix it?
[06:10] <somerville32> persia, I thought I had it that way.
[06:10] <persia> somerville32: No idea: I don't use pbuilder
[06:29]  * somerville32 finds a solution.
[06:37] <somerville32> Can someone please sponsor my package on revu? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=notecase
[06:38] <persia> somerville32: You're asking for REVU sponsorship.  What is the history of the package?
[06:39] <somerville32> persia, In what way?
[06:39] <somerville32> I don't think I can describe anymore more than whats in the changelog
[06:40] <persia> somerville32: Well, if it's a new package, and it has already been advocated, then it makes sense.  If it's an updated package, why REVU?
[06:40] <somerville32> persia, New release
[06:40] <persia> somerville32: OK.  In that case, you probably want to put an interdiff somewhere for review of the work.
[06:41] <somerville32> okay.
[06:42] <persia> somerville32: The procedure is currently documented several different ways, but my personal preference is to only have the interdiff in an upgrade bug subscribed to the sponsors queue.
[06:43] <somerville32> :/
[06:43] <TheMuso> persia: How exactly is interdiff useful for that?
[06:43]  * TheMuso is reading the manpage.
[06:44] <TheMuso> And can't work out how interdiff comes into play...
[06:44] <persia> TheMuso: It shows differences in the packaging (contents of diff.gz).  debdiff is bad for new upstreams,, because if conflates the changes made in packaging and upstream changes.
[06:45] <TheMuso> persia: Ah of course. Yep I knew about the debdiff for new upstreams, but I see where you're coming from now, compare the two diff.gz files.
[06:45] <persia> Since the md5sum has to be verified against the upstream download anyway, it's easier to only download orig.tar.gz once, to construct, sign, and upload the package: saves attachment space on LP.
[06:46] <TheMuso> Yep.
[06:46] <persia> somerville32: As I said, it's documented lots of different ways.  Come to the next MOTU meeting, when at least two proposals for the right way to do it will be proposed and discussed.
[06:53]  * persia wonders what happened to kibi's repo, and why notecase never went into Debian
[06:53] <persia> somerville32: A few other minor things:
[06:53] <persia> 1) would you mind adding a description to the dpatch files, explaining what they do?
[06:54] <somerville32> persia, sure
[06:55] <persia> 2) could you add a watch file so we can automatically detect a need to upgrade in the future?
[06:55] <somerville32> sure
[06:56] <persia> 3) I don't really understand the confusion between upstream and kibi regarding debianisation.  It seems odd to carry the dispute in the diff.gz unless we understand it.
[06:56] <persia> 4) Why are we moving from debhelper v5 to debhelperv4?  Isn't v5 easier to use?
[06:57] <persia> somerville32: I'm sure not all of those are yours, and haven't looked at the interdiff, but they all seem like annoying outstanding issues for an Ubuntu-native package :)
[06:57] <somerville32> persia: I copied over debian from the last release
[06:58] <somerville32> However, I didn't know .orig ships with debian/
[06:58] <persia> somerville32: Ah.  Looks like upstream is shipping one.  Perhaps worth deeper investigation: you may end up finding the new debhelper --ignore option helpful :)
[06:58] <somerville32> persia, I'm moving to cdbs too :P
[06:58]  * somerville32 shivers.
[06:59] <persia> somerville32: If upstream is shipping debian/ and we are smiliar to their packaging style, it works.  Attempting to migrate to CDBS will definitely cause an issue, as you can't use debhelper --ignore in CDBS easily.
[07:00] <somerville32> They used CDBS upstream
[07:01] <persia> Ah.  Well then. you can use either debhelper of CDBS, as you prefer.  It's just not a good idea to move in the other direction, as the more magic one uses, the less deterministic the solution appears
[07:01] <somerville32> persia, Good learning experience  form e.
[07:01] <somerville32> *e
[07:01] <somerville32> gah
[07:02] <persia> somerville32: You might also want to ping kibi to see what's been happening on that side.
[07:04] <somerville32> persia, I'm not using the packaging from upstream
[07:04] <somerville32> so that takes care of the copyright issue
[07:05] <persia> somerville32: Hrm?  I didn't only mean about copyright: if there's a package in perfect shape sitting on mentors or something, you'll have a more productive day if you check that for upload suitability instead of chasing the current one.
[07:05] <persia> (assuming quick response: for slow response, just proceed)
[07:06] <somerville32> You want me to check debian mentors to see if someone is attempting to package it there?
[07:07] <persia> somerville32: No, I want 1) there to be a perfect package, 2) you to have a satifying, enjoyable, and educational experience, and 3) you to spend as little time to achieve that so you can get more work done.
[07:08]  * somerville32 blinks.
[07:08] <persia> I just thought that since there was someone looking at maintaining it for debian before, you might try sending them a note or catching them on oftc to see if they had alreaady done a bunch of it to save time.
[07:08] <somerville32> persia, I was unaware someone was attempting to do that.
[07:08] <somerville32> persia, And I don't see where you started that.
[07:09] <persia> somerville32: Well, from the changelog I saw, it doesn't look like we've sync'd in at least two years, but I don't know if work has been done in another branch.
[07:09] <somerville32> persia, This package doesn't exist in debian.
[07:09] <persia> somerville32: No, it doesn't.  From the changelog it looked to me like kibi tried to get it in a couple years ago: that's all the data I have.
[07:10]  * TheMuso kills some more uus bugs.
[07:10] <somerville32> Who is "kibi"?
[07:10]  * persia cheers and especially asks for external focus on merge bugs due to an internal phobia of forgetting -v before uploading
[07:11] <warp10> Hi all!
[07:11] <persia> somerville32: Cyril Brulebois
[07:11] <somerville32> persia, How did you expect me to know that?
[07:11] <persia> somerville32: Sorry.  That's my fault.  Apologies.
[07:12] <somerville32> Upstream's debian directory is useless. We're not using it so the copyright belongs to kibi.
[07:15] <TheMuso> persia: Forgetting before uploading?
[07:15] <TheMuso> persia: I've added an agenda item for the meeting. I am going to propose that we have uus queue days, like we do for REVU etc.
[07:15] <persia> TheMuso: I very frequently generate an incorrect .changes file for merges, and have to repeat.  As a result, I'm much happier with bugfixes, new upstreams, and syncs.
[07:16] <TheMuso> As that queue can often be more than a single person's workload for a day.
[07:16] <TheMuso> persia: How do you manage to do that?
[07:17] <persia> OK.  Sounds like a sane proposal, although I've seen steady decline in size over the past week, and expect we'll catch up (~5-15 bugs in queue) in another week or so.  I think I'd prefer a big call for cleanup now, and then get an idea of the delta before it becomes a regular thing.
[07:17] <persia> Regarding changes, I forget to add the -v(last version actually in Ubuntu) when building the package, so I truncate the changelog variance that shows in the various tools.
[07:18] <TheMuso> Well, we'll see. Its partly to try and get other MOTUs motivated to actually help out with it, rather than focus on their own work. It means that those of us who take care of it, don't get a chance to do any of our own work.
[07:18] <persia> This is annoying because then the Debian changelog updates don't show in e.g. apt-listchanges
[07:18] <TheMuso> persia: right.
[07:19] <persia> TheMuso: Well, I guess that makes sense.  I just think it's better to try to get a core group of people to sponsor a bug or two every day rather than making it a once-weekly event.
[07:19] <persia> (e.g. I tend to sponsor a couple first thing in the morning, and last thing in the evening, with more only when I'm not doing anything else)
[07:20] <TheMuso> persia: Yes I agree. I'm just trying to think of ways that we can clear a backlog, if ever there gets to be one.
[07:20] <somerville32> persia, What do you mean about the move from v5 to v4
[07:20] <somerville32> persia, They all use v4
[07:20] <TheMuso> persia: Well since I have a lot of time on my hands at this moment, I'm doing more uus than anything else, which I'd rather not do, but since I'm an admin, I feel responsible for it.
[07:21] <persia> somerville32: Are you sure?  I see '5' in debian/compat in orig.tar.gz, and '4' in debian/compat in your candidate revision.
[07:21] <somerville32> oh
[07:21] <somerville32> okay.
[07:22] <somerville32> Ok
[07:22] <somerville32> All points addressed
[07:22] <somerville32> rebuilding
[07:22] <persia> TheMuso: For backlog (like now), we just need a big stick.  This is merge season combined with ~3 weeks of rare to light sponsorship.  For most of gutsy I saw (beginning and end), it was usually around 10-30 bugs after we did the initial big triage push.
[07:23] <persia> somerville32: Thanks for the quick response to all my points.
[07:24] <somerville32> persia, I'm getting a weird warning.
[07:24] <somerville32> W: notecase source: maintainer-script-lacks-debhelper-token debian/postinst
[07:24] <persia> somerville32: Which one?
[07:24] <somerville32> But there is no debian/postinst
[07:25] <TheMuso> persia: Yeah I know, but as I said earlier, it would be nice to have more MOTUs who help out with it.
[07:26] <persia> heh.  Welcome to the magic of upstream debian directories.  I suspect you've a 0-byte file floating about in the autobuild environment.  Check if I'm correct by looking in the upstream directory: if I'm right, you'll need --ignore.  If not, I suggest looking at the lintian check that generates that error to determine the cause.
[07:26] <somerville32> dpkg-source: warning: ignoring deletion of file debian/postinst
[07:26] <somerville32> postinst is included in the upstream debian
[07:26] <somerville32> so I suppose I should include it
[07:27] <persia> TheMuso: I think we're looking at two different sides of the same thing.  We both want more people (I don't think we really have 47), and you think Sponsor Day might help, whereas I think bug-a-day might help.  Let's try both and see what happens.
[07:27] <persia> somerville32: You don't need to include it.  Try the debhelper --ignore function, new in hardy, just to solve that problem.
[07:28] <somerville32> persia, Why don't I need it?
[07:28] <TheMuso> persia: Well it can be discussed at the meeting.
[07:28] <persia> somerville32: If you have no postinst, you'll end up with a pure debhelper postinst.  If you want manual features from upstream postinst, you'll want to include that.  I'm not looking at the files, so am not in a good position to make a determination.
[07:28]  * TheMuso ponders revising his agenda item.
[07:29] <somerville32> It just reloads stuff
[07:29] <persia> TheMuso: Sure.  I'm happy as long as we don't end up with something like ("You can't sponsor on alternate Tuesdays")
[07:29] <somerville32> persia, I think you're right.
[07:29] <persia> somerville32: Most of that is likely already done by debhelper :)
[07:29] <TheMuso> persia: Yeah.
[07:29] <somerville32> persia, So, how do I do the ignore?
[07:30] <persia> somerville32: I haven't had a chance yet.  look at the debhelper changelog for a quick blurb, which should point you to some docs.
[07:30] <somerville32> Would it tell me how to do it with CDBS?
[07:31] <persia> Erm.  Maybe.  I'm guessing it's a flag you need to pass to individual debhelper calls, and that CDBS doesn't support it yet, but if you read the docs you'll know more than I :)
[07:32] <TheMuso> One more down.
[07:33]  * persia glances to see if there are any more that can be easily knocked down from here
[07:34] <somerville32> persia, Why not just ignore it? It is only a warning.
[07:35] <persia> somerville32: Because 1) we'd like to get everything linda & lintian clean, and 2) an empty postinst in source forces an empty postinst in binary which prevents any of the debhelper calls, so that your menu items won't get stuck in the menus when you install: they'll wait for something else to get installed.  This may be confusing or annoying to users.
[07:36] <somerville32> persia, is this feature something thats new in debhelper 5?
[07:36] <persia> somerville32: It's even new in 5.0.54 or something: very, very, very recent
[07:36] <persia> (only in hardy)
[07:37] <somerville32> I'll try something else first.
[07:38] <somerville32> hmm
[07:41] <TheMuso> Another one down, which was incorrectly subscribed, as the package is in main.
[07:41]  * TheMuso -> dinner.
[07:47] <somerville32> Ok
[07:47]  * somerville32 takes a deep breath.
[07:50] <pkern> persia: I didn't follow everything but inserting #!/bin/sh\n#DEBHELPER# would fix that, too, I'd assume?
[07:50] <persia> pkern: Yes it would.
[07:59] <somerville32> pkern, Thats what I did.
[08:00] <pkern> Aye.
[08:31] <BugMaN> hi all
[08:45] <white> dumdidum
[08:45] <white> i reckon that you guys do not get a few free days, when ftp-master is down :)
[08:46] <persia> white: Nope.  Are you bored?
[08:46] <white> well i have one or two more bugs to fill, but then there is nothing to do as uploads are not really possible atm
[08:47] <white> and the damn buildds are also affected by ftp-master being down :/
[08:47] <white> so security uploads are also sort of pointless :(
[08:47] <persia> How long are you stuck?
[08:48] <white> until DSA fixes ftp-master or new TODOs are coming in for testing-security :)
[08:48] <white> watching movies is probably the time killer :)
[08:48] <persia> Ah.  Too bad.  I was hoping to sell you on updating new versions :)
[08:49]  * Fujitsu wonders how it can take so long to restore it.
[08:49] <white> persia: well uploads are not possible, so no updates :)
[08:49] <white> Fujitsu: good question
[08:49] <persia> white: You're assuming I was thinking about uploads to ftp-master :P
[08:49] <white> Fujitsu: i would suspect that there is a backup and an alternative host, so everything should be switched in a few hours
[08:49] <pwnguin> hmm. i can find a converter from xpm to .ico
[08:50] <pwnguin> but not a .ico to anything else
[08:50] <Fujitsu> white: Hasn't it been almost 48 hours now?
[08:50] <white> yes
[08:50] <persia> Fujitsu: It's often a matter of physical access for someone: not necessarily DSA, but someone who has access to the host.
[08:50] <white> and after we realised that the buildds for testing-security are affected, we stipped working on DTSAs
[08:50] <Fujitsu> Surely it would have taken a couple at maximum to diagnose it, then fix or restore from backups.
[08:50] <Fujitsu> persia: True.
[08:51] <persia> pwnguin: imagemagick does .ico -> .xpm and .ico -> .png
[08:51] <white> Fujitsu: well for the main machine for debian, i would expect to have an alternative host in place and just change the address and use another host than ries
[08:51] <Fujitsu> white: One would presume so, as it's fairly important..
[08:51] <persia> white: I think there are synchronisation concerns (not that DSA has lots of extra time to discuss concerns or anything)
[08:52] <white> persia: what do you mean?
[08:52] <white> i am sure that ries had a backup
[08:52]  * Fujitsu grumbles at PHP for being stupid.
[08:52] <white> and having another host ready as ftp-master2 is sort of the way to go, if the project relies on it, isn't it?
[08:53] <Fujitsu> Half of the 2.0.2 to 2.0.11 WordPress diff is casting things to ints.
[08:53] <white> Fujitsu: drop wordpress
[08:53] <lucas> white: have you ever dealt with redundancy of complex systems?
[08:53] <persia> white: I don't think the backup is a mirror, so there's roll-forward to do on restore, etc.  On the other hand, I've not paid much attention to ftp-master in the past couple years.
[08:53] <white> lucas: to some extent, yes
[08:53] <minghua> I am not so sure that ftp-master has a full up-to-date backup...
[08:53] <lucas> usually, it's very hard, and it's easier to say: "be ready, so that when it breaks, we can fix it in a timely manner"
[08:53] <persia> Fujitsu: ints?  Erm.  Not casting pointers to ints surely...
[08:54] <Fujitsu> persia: Pointers in PHP?
[08:54] <persia> minghua: At least last-day (or it did before)
[08:54] <somerville32> persia, okay. It should be all good for review now.
[08:54] <pwnguin> wordpress was written in a language that has pointers?
[08:54] <persia> Fujitsu: Ah.  Good.  I get worried when people cast to ints, but perhaps I have to narrow the set of things that raise alarms.
[08:54] <lucas> minghua: most of the important stuff is mirrored on merkel anyway
[08:55] <white> lucas: please enlightne me
[08:55] <white> lucas: having dak on another host and the whole database, plus the archive
[08:55] <lucas> but some things are never backuped up (like home dirs)
[08:55] <persia> somerville32: Excellent.  I don't have time for a review now, but will definitely look at it later.
[08:55] <somerville32> Ok.
[08:55] <somerville32> Fujitsu, Are you a motu?
[08:55] <Fujitsu> somerville32: I am.
[08:55] <lucas> white: then you have to deal with synchronization between ries and ries2, and between ries2 and ries when ries comes back
[08:55] <somerville32> Fujitsu, Want to do a review? :)
[08:56] <persia> somerville32: Stop bugging individual MOTUs for sponsorship.  We have a sponsors queue for that.
[08:56] <lucas> often, it's easier to just say: "ok, it's down for 2 days, it's not a huge problem anyway"
[08:56] <Fujitsu> somerville32: Not particularly, as I have very restricted network access where I am now.
[08:56] <white> lucas: if you have a full backup and you decide to change ries2 to ries, what would be the problem?
[08:56] <somerville32> Fujitsu, I'll give you a cookie :)
[08:56] <white> lucas: then you have enough time to investigate ries (now ries2)
[08:56] <white> s/you have/you would have/
[08:57] <lucas> that usually, ries2 is simply a backup solution, and that you want to go back to ries at some point
[08:57] <white> lucas: i do not want a fully automatic solution, but something which can be switched manually in a couple of hours
[08:57] <lucas> let's say you sync every 2 hours.
[08:57] <white> yes
[08:57] <lucas> is it better to say "let's go back to the last backup"
[08:58] <lucas> on ries2
[08:58] <lucas> or to say "wait on ries to come back"
[08:58] <lucas> in one case, you lose maybe 1h30 of changes
[08:58] <lucas> in the other case, you just cant upload for some time, but no work is loss / has to be redone
[08:58] <minghua> lucas: Ah, good to know.  But do you know any more news?  Is the "harddisk problem" confirmed?
[08:58] <lucas> minghua: according to rt.d.o, yes
[08:59] <white> lucas: so you prefer not having any migration to testing (holding a lot of sec updates from testing), having problems with builds for DTSAs and not being able to do any uploads to the main archive for two days (and probably more), than just lossing let's say 10 new package versions in incoming?
[08:59] <white> and that could be announced in an email to reupload them
[08:59] <lucas> white: depends :-)
[08:59] <white> lucas: well, I tend to disagree ;)
[08:59] <lucas> I think I just got 3 security updates
[09:00] <lucas> Get:1 http://localhost testing/updates/main libpcre3-dev 6.7+7.4-2+lenny1 [246kB]
[09:00] <white> lucas: that was the last lucky one, which came through
[09:00] <lucas> ah ok
[09:00] <white> atm, there are two more DTSAs in the queue, which fail on a few buildds due to incoming.d.o. unreachable :/
[09:01] <white> and there would probably one or two more, if it would make sense to upload them at all :)
[09:01] <minghua> I also remember today's perl security update says there are arches with no packages available, which I assume is partly due to this problem.
[09:02] <white> lucas: don't get me wrong, i am sure that DSA does a hell of a job, i was just wondering, because the impact is quite huge (with no personal criticism intended)
[09:04] <lucas> system administration in volunteer projects is often a problem
[09:04] <lucas> debian's is not perfect
[09:04] <lucas> but other projects have similar issues (see freedesktop.org for example)
[09:04] <white> as said, i was just wondering about the backup plans (and alternative plans) for one of the major debian machines :)
[09:05] <white> lucas: and the "lack of manpower" is not an argument ;)
[09:05] <lucas> no, but you can't just add 10 people to such teams
[09:05] <lucas> it won't help
[09:05] <white> lucas: i am not suggesting that
[09:05]  * persia suggests that anyone with a good plan for building a distributed redundant model that doesn't need a signficant manual kick document it and send it to the appropriate mailing list for consideration.  Such plan should include arrangements for staffing.
[09:05] <lucas> + some members of DSA have other employers ;)
[09:05] <white> lucas: but saying that there are no trustworthy people in debian capable of doing this job is a lie
[09:06] <lucas> yes, of course
[09:06] <lucas> where's a lot of work being done behind the scene to improve the DSA staffing issue
[09:06] <white> lucas: and having other employers is not a problem. People do not need to get kicked out of teams, just because their commitment rate only contains half of the time :)
[09:06] <lucas> (being a french DD, I have access to direct information channels, believe me ;)
[09:07] <white> lucas: i am not saying anything against the current improvements or sam's plans
[09:07] <white> lucas: or the french cabal intervention ;)
[09:07]  * persia encourages further discussion of ftp-master administration be conducted in another forum
[09:08] <white> lucas: see my statements just as some personal thoughts, which i like to discuss with fellow DDs or other people ;)
[09:08] <lucas> well, for example, some people are annoyed by the fact that 20+ future developers are simply waiting for a canonical employee to create their accounts :)
[09:08] <white> persia: spoilsport ;)
[09:08] <pwnguin> persia: so it appears that xpm is favorable over png for diff reasons...
[09:08] <white> lucas: in my opinion, that is bullshit
[09:08] <persia> pwnguin: Well, yes.  You can uuencode pngs
[09:09] <persia> !ohmy | white
[09:09] <ubotu> white: Please watch your language and topic, and keep this channel family friendly.
[09:09] <somerville32> :p
[09:09] <white> persia: ?
[09:09] <persia> pwnguin: ... If you want, but .xpm is certainly smaller.  It is also supported by the debian menu system, which many users (like fluxbuntu) appreciate.
[09:09] <Fujitsu> Is elmo the only DAM?
[09:10] <lucas> no, but he is the only one able to create accounts
[09:10] <white> lucas: i might do windows administration here at university next year. Are people concerned that a windows admin uploads DTSAs to the debian pool?
[09:10] <lucas> the other DAM only reviews apps
[09:10] <Fujitsu> That seems silly.
[09:10] <pwnguin> persia: good to know. i originally picked .png because it looked the same and was a bit smaller
[09:11] <persia> Ummm...  I really don't think this is the forum.  Further, I suggest that those looking at DAM issues read archives from the years prior to he existence of Ubuntu.
[09:11] <white> lucas: (personal note. not because i like the job, but because it is an opportunity to pay for my tuition)
[09:11] <persia> pwnguin: I usually try to include both: a 32x32 xpm and a 48x48 or 64x64 png.
[09:11]  * Fujitsu finds the discussion rather interesting, but agrees that this probably not the right place.
[09:12] <lucas> white: not at all. but if you were the only one able to upload DTSA, and wouldn't have enough bandwidth, people would be annoyed
[09:14] <white> lucas: maybe. Not sure how to handle the NM stuff, I am just a small AM :)
[09:21] <somerville32> Could someone review my page on revu? New upstream release (1 advocate needed). http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=notecase
[09:22]  * Fujitsu wonders why we don't just use interdiffs attached to bugs like normal.
[09:22] <somerville32> Could someone review my page on revu? New upstream release (1 advocate needed). http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=youtranslate
[09:23] <somerville32> Fujitsu, I can provide interdiffs for you if you'd like.
[09:24] <Fujitsu> somerville32: I'm just wondering why that isn't the documented process.
[09:24] <somerville32> Fujitsu, Yeah for the next MOTU meeting!
[09:24]  * Fujitsu checks the agenda.
[09:24] <somerville32> Fujitsu, Do you want an interdiff or just a diff of debian/ ?
[09:24] <Fujitsu> Ah, I see.
[09:24] <Fujitsu> somerville32: interdiff of the .diff.gz.
[09:26] <pkern> somerville32: When?
[09:26] <Fujitsu> pkern: The meeting?
[09:26] <pkern> Aye.
[09:26] <Fujitsu> 2000UTC this Friday.
[09:27] <pkern> Aye.
[09:27] <somerville32> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/43645/ <-- youtranslate
[09:29] <Fujitsu> somerville32: I suspect you want -p1 or so.
[09:29] <minghua> That's a broken interdiff.
[09:29] <Fujitsu> minghua: No, it's fine, just the directories are named differently.
[09:30] <somerville32> oh
[09:30] <Fujitsu> somerville32: You might want to check diffs for saneness before advertising them.
[09:30] <Fujitsu> Anyway, I need to go home now, I will return in about 20 minutes.
[09:31] <somerville32> With p1, it fails
[09:31] <minghua> Fujitsu: Yeah, I should have said "useless".
[09:34] <somerville32> What do I do if interdiff dies?
[09:42] <minghua> somerville32: The changes to Makefile.youtranslate and youtranslate.exe.config are no longer needed?
[09:43] <minghua> somerville32: "binary now placed in /usr/share/youtranslate".  Why?
[09:43] <somerville32> minghua, Because the package is any
[09:43] <DaveMorris> Hi, I'm reading the REVU guide on the wiki and it says I need to ask you kinda amins to re-sync the REVU uploaders keyring now that I've joined the Contributors of packages for ubuntu universe team.
[09:43] <somerville32> (the arch that is)
[09:44] <minghua> somerville32: But all other mono packages put their .exe files in /usr/lib.
[09:44] <s1024kb> Hello everyone, how to use "sudo sed -i s/dapper/breezy/g /var/chroot/etc/apt/sources.list" when i am using gutsy?
[09:44] <somerville32> minghua, linda complained so I changed it.
[09:45] <minghua> s1024kb: What exactly do you want to achieve?
[09:46] <s1024kb> minghua: i am setting up my chroot following the guide...
[09:47] <s1024kb> minghua: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DebootstrapChroot
[09:47] <minghua> somerville32: Did you test building and using the new package?  I think your debian/install file is wrong.
[09:48] <minghua> s1024kb: So you want to set up a hardy chroot?
[09:49] <somerville32> minghua, I've detected some more problems with it.
[09:49] <s1024kb> minghua: thanks for your help. actually i am still carrying on the "hello" in packing guide. Last night i had build the 4 files such as changelog myself with vim in the /debian folder, but don't know what next...
[09:49] <somerville32> minghua, I'll make the changes.
[09:50] <s1024kb> minghua: i am setting up my Debootstrap according to the guide now because only now i can be online. Later i will continue the "hello" practice at home.
[09:50] <minghua> somerville32: I suggest you always use "dh_install --fail-missing" when using debhelper.
[09:51] <somerville32> minghua, When I try installing the binary deb, I get all kinds of dependency errors.
[09:51] <somerville32> minghua, I assume it is because I built for hardy?
[09:51] <somerville32> And they've already updated the mono stuff?
[09:52] <minghua> s1024kb: I don't understand why you need a chroot for building the "hello" package, does the guide tell you to create a debootstraped chroot first?
[09:53] <s1024kb> minghua: no... other Ubuntu friends told me that...
[09:53] <s1024kb> minghua: they sent me the link of the document and i am following it...
[09:53] <somerville32> minghua, nvm. I'm stupid.
[09:53] <minghua> somerville32: No idea, but if you can't test on hardy, test it on gutsy.  Don't ask for reviews before building and testing the package.
[09:53] <somerville32> minghua, How do I get it to download the depends?
[09:54] <minghua> s1024kb: Well, I guess you'll have to ask the other friends.  I don't quite know what you are trying to do here, and you don't seem to know either.
[09:55] <minghua> somerville32: Doesn't gdebi (or whatever the .deb package installer is named) pull in dependency automatically?
[09:55] <somerville32> minghua, okay.
[09:56] <s1024kb> minghua: anyway, i want to try to set up my chroot, maybe for future use. shall i type sudo sed -i s/gutsy/g /var/chroot/etc/apt/sources.list ?
[09:56] <minghua> s1024kb: No.  My *guess* is that you can safely skip that step.
[09:59] <s1024kb> minghua: i feel that it's not easy to follow the packing guide "basic scratch". now i had built the 4 files (for example changlog) in the /debian folder. what shall i do next? compile the package from the source code folder? Just want to finish the first test...
[10:00] <minghua> ! packagingguide
[10:00] <ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources - See also !backports
[10:00] <DaveMorris> DaveMorris: Hi, I'm reading the REVU guide on the wiki and it says I need to ask you kind admins to re-sync the REVU uploaders keyring now that I've joined the Contributors of packages for ubuntu universe team.
[10:02] <somerville32> DaveMorris, None are around at the moment :)
[10:02] <DaveMorris> somerville32: do you know who they are?
[10:02] <somerville32> DaveMorris, ajmitch is one
[10:02] <DaveMorris> or what timezone they predominately are in?
[10:03] <minghua> s1024kb: Four files?  Do you have debian/postinst and debian/postrm now?
[10:03]  * Fujitsu returns.
[10:03] <Fujitsu> somerville32: I don't think he is, any more.
[10:03] <s1024kb> minghua: no, just don't have them.
[10:03] <minghua> DaveMorris: As far as I know the keyring is automatically synced, so waiting works too.
[10:04] <s1024kb> minghua: where i can get them - even the template?
[10:04] <minghua> s1024kb: Then you didn't follow the whole guide, I assume.  There is a "postinst and prerm" section.
[10:05] <DaveMorris> minghua: every night it says via cron if you don't get a reply (not sure the timezone for it though)
[10:05] <minghua> Fujitsu: Can you confirm that REVU keyring is still auto-synced?
[10:06] <s1024kb> minghua: thanks, i will check it later.
[10:07] <s1024kb> minghua: if i can place the postinst and prerm files, i can get my package done?
[10:07] <Fujitsu> minghua: I don't believe it is.
[10:08] <DaveMorris> Fujitsu: do you know who I need to ask to get it synced up then, since i've just joined the Contributors of packages for ubuntu universe team on LP
[10:08] <minghua> s1024kb: Then you should follow the next section, "Building the Source Package", and then sections after that.
[10:08] <Fujitsu> DaveMorris: Sure, sec.
[10:09]  * minghua sighs.  Common MOTU problems -- the doc and reality doesn't match. :-(
[10:09] <Fujitsu> minghua: Since tiber died, yeah.
[10:09] <Fujitsu> DaveMorris: Hobbsee, siretart, pkern, sistpoty.
[10:10] <DaveMorris> thanks
[10:11] <minghua> Fujitsu: I vaguely remember that the keyring needed to be manually synced -- I didn't know it's still not fixed.
[10:11] <minghua> Anyway, my rant is not going to help either.
[10:11] <DaveMorris> thnaks for the info, I'll contact them in a moment
[10:12] <s1024kb> minghua: so you mean that the next chapters explain the things in "basic scratch"?
[10:12] <siretart> minghua: the keyring is synced via cronjob again
[10:12] <siretart> every 24h
[10:13] <minghua> s1024kb: No, next "sections", in the same "Packaging from Scratch" chapter.
[10:13] <DaveMorris> siretart: could you do a manual sync for me?
[10:13] <Fujitsu> siretart: Ah, thanks for clarifying.
[10:13] <minghua> siretart: Aha, good to know.  Blame Fujitsu for the misinformation then. :-P
[10:14] <siretart> DaveMorris: update running now, give it 30min to complete
[10:15] <DaveMorris> do I get a mail to say my key has been added, or how cna I check?
[10:16] <s1024kb> minghua: could you please explain to me does the command "sudo sed -i s/dapper/breezy/g /var/chroot/etc/apt/sources.list" seems right? shall i replace somewhere when i am using gutsy?
[10:17] <minghua> s1024kb: That page assumes you are using dapper.  So the chroot you created will have dapper in the sources.list.  That command change dapper to breezy.
[10:19] <s1024kb> minghua: but i want to use the sources.list in the fakeroot. justnow i was there, but seems that the sources.list i was using was wrong. i need to modified it but don't know how to do.
[10:19] <minghua> s1024kb: You can not use a sources.list in fakeroot.
[10:21] <s1024kb> minghua: but how can i use "apt-get" there in fakeroot?
[10:21] <s1024kb> minghua: is it fakeroot like a small Ubuntu system running in a virtual machine?
[10:21] <minghua> s1024kb: You can't use "apt-get" with fakeroot, and you shouldn't.
[10:22] <s1024kb> minghua: why?
[10:22] <persia> (unless you are calling apt-get source, and you really really wanted to do that)
[10:22] <minghua> s1024kb: No.  Read fakeroot(1) man page to see what fakeroot is.
[10:23] <minghua> I suspect s1024kb is confusing fakeroot with pbuilder or chroot, but oh well.
[10:24] <s1024kb> minghua: but in the DebootstrapChroot.htm, in the "Setting up your chroot with debootstrap", they said we can enter fakeroot and type "apt-get install wget debconf devscripts gnupg nano"... i was confused...
[10:25] <minghua> s1024kb: It doesn't say that.  fakeroot is not mentioned on that page at all.
[10:26] <s1024kb> minghua: oh, so it's chroot. i guess i am confused with chroot and fakeroot.
[10:27] <s1024kb> minghua: so, just now i was in "chroot"?
[10:27] <minghua> s1024kb: I have no idea where you are.  But as I've said, you don't need a chroot to following the packaging guide.
[10:29] <s1024kb> minghua: okay... so i read the packaging guide again first this evening... but could you explain to me in a few words what is fakeroot and what is chroot, when to use them? Sorry, a tough question...
[10:32] <minghua> s1024kb: fakeroot is a command to "pretend" that you are root.  chroot is a different ubuntu system running in your current system (like virtual machine, but not quite).
[10:33] <s1024kb> minghua: haha, so just now i was in that virtual machine. but the source.list was not correct in that machine, shall i copy a right one there for "apt-get"? :-)
[10:34] <minghua> s1024kb: I don't think your sources.list would be "not correct" in chroot.
[10:35] <s1024kb> minghua: but i had view that file, couldn't find any sources of gutsy (almost an empty file), no wonder i type "apt-get" there in chroot and could not get anything back... :-)
[10:38] <minghua> s1024kb: In that case you have a bigger problem...  Is your /etc/apt/sources.list is almost empty too?
[10:38] <s1024kb> minghua: fortunately not... i view it just now. so i copy it there to the virtual machine?
[10:39] <s1024kb> minghua: i guess that i had typed a wrong command and caused the problem...
[10:40] <minghua> s1024kb: I don't know what you've been doing.  Just above the line with sed, it says "sudo cp /etc/apt/sources.list /var/chroot/etc/apt/", so the two files should be identical.
[10:41] <s1024kb> minghua: thank you very much.
[10:43]  * persia invokes Dktrkranz
[10:49] <s1024kb> minghua: thank you, my virtual machine works. i go home now, bye.
[10:51] <minghua> It's not a virtual machine...
[11:00] <persia> minghua: terminology doesn't always translate well: it's especially tricky for those new to the terminology, and practicing the language...
[11:03] <minghua> persia: Right.  I'm only saying (half to myself) after she left.
[11:04] <minghua> I am generally bitter about wild inaccuracy of computer-related terminology in Chinese language.
[11:04]  * Fujitsu grumbles that sbuild's build-depend resolution algorithm is inefficient and takes an insane amount of time in qemu.
[11:05] <persia> minghua: I'm glad to hear it: most of the people I've worked with (either mainland or Formosa) seem to feel it doesn't matter.
[11:05] <persia> Fujitsu: Could you suggest a better one?
[11:06] <Fujitsu> persia: dpkg's doesn't seem to terribly slow.
[11:06] <Fujitsu> s/to/to be/
[11:06]  * persia decides to compare the code after finishing the sponsors queue
[11:06] <persia> "to be"?  I read it as "too" :)
[11:07] <Fujitsu> Could be either, I guess.
[11:07]  * persia is amused by grammatical ambiguity
[11:07] <Fujitsu> Silly English.
[11:08]  * persia seeks advice and guidance from fbond re: bug #27833
[11:08] <minghua> persia: I would like to ask you please not to use the "Formosa" name, at least not in conversations with me.
[11:08] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 27833 in midisport-firmware "Add support for MidiSport USB midi interfaces" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/27833
[11:08] <persia> minghua: OK.  I shan't again.
[11:09] <minghua> persia: As for terminology, I am also a grammar/spelling nazi, so my opinion is probably not a popular one.
[11:09] <persia> minghua: A spelling nazi for Hanzi?  I didn't know that was possible :)
[11:10] <Tm_T> minghua: you use word nazi quite lightly
[11:10] <somerville32> <.< >.>
[11:11] <minghua> Tm_T: Sorry if that offense you, but I thought "spelling nazi" is a sort-of general expression.
[11:11] <Tm_T> it is
[11:11] <Tm_T> but I dont find it appropriate
[11:11] <minghua> persia: Oh yes it's possible, and I'm (in)famous for that among my friends.
[11:11] <Tm_T> just like "stfu" is general expression
[11:12] <minghua> Tm_T: Can you recommend an alternative for me?
[11:12] <Tm_T> minghua: police? as in "grammar-police" ?
[11:13] <Tm_T> or whatever is your meaning
[11:13] <Tm_T> hoora: hello
[11:14] <Tm_T> anyone seen hoora saying something ever?
[11:14] <somerville32> lol
[11:14]  * Fujitsu greps.
[11:14] <Tm_T> somerville32: no, I'm not kidding on this
[11:15] <minghua> Tm_T: I'll use police from no on, thanks.
[11:15] <Fujitsu> Tm_T: My logs seem to support your suggestion.
[11:15] <Tm_T> Fujitsu: and behind tor, two things making me suspicios when together
[11:15] <Fujitsu> A lot of people never say anything, however.
[11:16] <Tm_T> minghua: I thank you
[11:16] <somerville32> Tm_T, Maybe it is a US spy?
[11:16] <Tm_T> anyway, thats offtopic
[11:17] <elkbuntu> minghua, 'perfectionist' is probably a nicer term :)
[11:18] <Tm_T> that too
[11:18] <Tm_T> though perfectionist watches himself, police others ;)
[11:18] <Tm_T> but maybe I'm missing the point so I'm silent
[11:20] <broonie> elkbuntu: Half the point of the '-nazi' term is that it's not particularly nice.
[11:20] <minghua> elkbuntu: I always feel that "perfectionist" is used for the attitude to one's own work, not to others. :-P
[11:20] <minghua> But English is my second language, so...
[11:20] <elkbuntu> broonie, it's also an overly misused word.
[11:20] <persia> Tm_T: Depends on usage.  One can be externally perfectionist (usually whilst a hypocrite), or police oneself, but ...
[11:21] <broonie> elkbuntu: Not particularly defending the usage, it's just one reason why choosing a "nice" term to replace it might not fit.
[11:22] <Tm_T> also, "grammar-whiner" might show the not-so-nice tone ?
[11:25]  * persia hunts huats
[11:30] <Fujitsu> tepsipakki: Can you please do something about bug #160629? It doesn't seem to have had ubuntu-archive subscribed or anything.
[11:30] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 160629 in xfonts-ay "please sync from Debian unstable" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/160629
[11:31] <knights> Marnin!
[11:31] <knights> Hmmm- no Fujitsu?
[11:31]  * Fujitsu doesn't exist.
[11:31] <knights> Who was that then?
[11:32] <knights> I mean whats Fs normal nick?
[11:32] <knights> or e-mail?
[11:33] <knights> Ho Hobbsee!
[11:33] <Fujitsu> Evening Hobbsee.
[11:34] <knights> Sorry Fujitsu- I must've just not seen your nick in the list :)
[11:34] <knights> Have you got to trying xdtv out yet?
[11:35] <Hobbsee> hiya knights, Fujitsu
[11:35] <knights> Hi Hobbsa!
[11:35] <Fujitsu> knights: No, sorry, been busy with exams.
[11:36] <knights> My other q of the day is- does the 7.10 desktop installer support resizing ntfs partitions?
[11:36] <Hobbsee> of course.
[11:36] <knights> gut gut
[11:36] <Hobbsee> afaik, anyway
[11:36] <Hobbsee> heck, the last few releases heave
[11:36] <Hobbsee> -e
[11:36] <Fujitsu> AFAIK we have since the start.
[11:36] <knights> You'd think so now that it imports the desktop settings too!
[11:38] <persia> Fujitsu: resizing?  I thought we didn't get that until Breezy or Dapper.
[11:38] <knights> Well, I'll give the 7.10 desktop installer a go on another machine but it totally froze, twice over, on me on my last attempt when it was just about to star copying files over- I think it was when it was detecting partitions. I installed 7.10 alt on that same machine fine and both discs were checked.
[11:39] <knights> so I'm just a bit wary about that desktop installer y'see
[11:39] <Fujitsu> persia: I'm pretty sure we had it in Breezy.
[11:39] <Fujitsu> And I thought Hoary, but maybe not.
[11:40] <persia> Fujitsu: Whenever we integrated Colin's new installer.  In the beginning there was another installer.
[11:40] <fernando> moin all
[11:40] <knights> Have freezes using the 7.10 desktop installer been commonly reported. This PC in question was put together for Linux- all the hardware works 100% with most distros
[11:41] <Hobbsee> knights: was it 7.10 final?
[11:41] <knights> yes
[11:41] <Hobbsee> not the RC?
[11:41] <Fujitsu> persia: Didn't d-i do resizing?
[11:41] <Hobbsee> i dont know of the *final* having issues - but the RC certainly did.
[11:41] <knights> Not irc and I checked both the MD5 and the disc using the install tool
[11:41] <persia> Fujitsu: For FAT
[11:41] <knights> Not rc sorry
[11:42] <Hobbsee> hm.  check for bugs on it.  if it's reproducible, report it with running gksudo ubiquity --debug
[11:42] <persia> (I believe d-i resizes NTFS now as well)
[11:42] <knights> alt installed without a hitch on that PC tho
[11:42] <Hobbsee> persia: that long has.
[11:42] <persia> Hobbsee: define long.  I remember when it didn't exist :)
[11:43] <Fujitsu> Thanks, bug #160303
[11:43] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 160303 in dosemu-freedos "Dependency problems" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/160303
[11:43]  * Fujitsu opens up a gutsy chroot.
[11:43] <Hobbsee> persia: right, but i rmemeber resizing in breezy at least - hoary did support it, except i didnt realise what i was doing
[11:43] <knights> Fujitsu: Any other MOTUs you know who might be interested in a video capture, streaming and DVR app like xdtv?
[11:45] <Fujitsu> knights: No idea.
[11:45] <knights> who packages mplayer, xine, devede?
[11:45]  * Fujitsu does a bit of mplayer.
[11:46] <knights> Its as important as those apps to linux video- cinelerra and KDEnlive too of course
[11:46] <Hobbsee> xine is done by siretart
[11:46]  * knights can't believe its new to boontoo!
[11:46] <knights> Aha!
[11:47] <knights> is his e-mail on the wiki / launchpad?
[11:47] <persia> knights: If you want new apps, you'll do a lot better just to jump in and work on things than to email people.
[11:48] <Hobbsee> bluefoxicy: did you do exaile yet, btw?
[11:48] <Hobbsee> er, no, bluekuja
[11:49] <knights> persia: Well I've uploaded xdtv to REVU and mu understanding was that I now need 2 MOTUs to review and approve my package so I'm just fishing for MOTUs who'd be up for it
[11:50] <knights> Fujitsu might try it soon so thats 1
[11:50] <persia> knights: The next REVU day is very likely scheduled for the 12th (although this will be confirmed on the 9th).  In the meantime, if you think your package is ready, you may advertise the REVU url not more than once each 24 hours in this channel, and if someone has time, they will review it.
[11:51] <persia> On REVU day, you may advertise more often, and are much more likely to get a review.
[11:51] <knights> Oh right! I had no idea about any of this!
[11:52] <persia> knights: That's why you've come here: ask anything (on topic), and we'll try to get you an answer.
[11:53] <knights> indeed, thanks p
[11:55]  * Hobbsee sends a "please upgrade me" bug to debian.
[11:55] <persia> Hobbsee: which package?
[11:55] <Hobbsee> persia: exaile
[11:55] <Hobbsee> it's actually a decent amarok replacement - woot!
[11:56] <persia> Why is amarok bad?
[11:56] <Hobbsee> on gnome?
[11:56] <Hobbsee> multimedia keys dont work without a script, and the script tends to unload itself at random
[11:56] <Hobbsee> and the visualisations dont work well with compiz, if you keep it open
[11:56] <persia> Ah.  It's the "on GNOME" part I missed.  Yes, amarok isn't ideal.
[11:57] <Hobbsee> amarok's awesome on kde, and mostly awesome on gnome.
[11:57]  * persia further notes that hardy amarok needs a xine-lib transition
[11:57] <Hobbsee> mmm, it does.
[11:59]  * persia wonders about the relationship between libqalculate and qalculate-kde
[12:00] <wraund> can anyone mentor me on making a debian package, fixing a bug, or doing a patch/upgrade?
[12:00] <Hobbsee> persia: both of them can be NMU'd in debian.
[12:01]  * Hobbsee got an email back from the maintainer, saying he had no time, but hoped to in the future, so to go ahead with packaigng
[12:01] <ScottK> persia: Agreed (at least in part).
[12:01] <persia> Hobbsee: ftp-master wasn't working last I heard.  What should I do about the bug in queue?
[12:01] <Hobbsee> persia: huh?
[12:01] <persia> re: bug #102328 & http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=libqalculate
[12:01] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 102328 in qalculate-gtk "New upstream release available" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/102328
[12:02] <Hobbsee> and this relates to ftp-master how?
[12:02] <Hobbsee> oh, as in, debian's not recieving uploads?
[12:02] <persia> Hobbsee: Blocks the NMU tonight and sync later solution.
[12:02] <Hobbsee> ahhh
[12:03] <Hobbsee> if it's fine, feel ree to stick it in ubuntu, and then shove it back to debian later
[12:03] <persia> ScottK: Are you getting back to me about backscroll, or commenting on the current item?
[12:03] <persia> Hobbsee: Ummm...  I'll forget, but I suspect it'll flag on the KDE team's lists: would I be wrong?
[12:04] <Hobbsee> persia: now, there's a good point.
[12:07] <persia> Hobbsee: In that case, shall I assign the bug to you to remember later as part of your coordination with the Debian maintainer?
[12:07] <Hobbsee> persia: mmm kay.
[12:08] <Hobbsee> but that means i actually have to *do* something about it :P
[12:08]  * persia thanks Hobbsee and owes her a bug
[12:08] <Hobbsee> :P
[12:08] <Hobbsee> hm, guess i should deactivate myself, too
[12:12] <knights> persia send I can pimp my package url once today so I'm not turning him down
[12:12] <knights> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=xdtv
[12:12] <knights> xdtv - by far the best v4l2 capture tool for Linux!
[12:12] <knights> :D
[12:13] <persia> knights: When advertising, I recommend mentioning the number of advocates you have, and if you've responded to the last comment (if there was one).
[12:13] <knights> No comments yet but my own
[12:13] <knights> multimedia on Linux is still highly occult it seems
[12:14] <knights> I've just mailed siretart tho, maybe he'll pull through?
[12:15] <persia> knights: Maybe.  Many developers don't prefer to receive unsolicited mail for things better handled through bugs or REVU entries, although most try to respond.
[12:16] <knights> fair enough. Multimedia production, I should've said. Most Linux wants want movie playback. Capture...?
[12:18] <persia> knights: Also, you can save yourself the most painful parts of a review by running lintian and linda with the flags listed in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing against your .dsc and (binary) .changes file.
[12:19] <persia> DrKranz: I was looking for you: there's a bunch of SRUs pending, and I wanted some comments to understand what went where, when, and why.
[12:20] <DrKranz> persia, sure. IIRC, there are three or four
[12:20] <pkern> Fujitsu: pong ;)
[12:20] <persia> DrKranz: I'll be about for another hour or so: let me know when is best for you for anything targeted for gutsy
[12:27] <DrKranz> persia, I quicly checked SRU request which I subscribed. It seems there's no gutsy related stuff to provide, just Feisty and Edgy, but I will look at them more carefully, especially to dapper -> hardy upgrades
[12:28] <persia> DrKranz: Thanks.  I hadn't looked at them carefully after seeing your name, figuring that you were probably watching the process fairly closely anyway.  Now we just need someone with more chroots available to upload :)
[12:29] <DrKranz> hehe, or wait for you to free some space :)
[12:30] <persia> DrKranz: Well, maybe, although me upgrading to hardy will likely happen first (and then I only need one hardy chroot instead of two, and can install feisty)
[12:31] <DrKranz> Do you need an account to run pbuilder chroots? It's not a problem to set up it
[12:32] <persia> DrKranz: I believe you already gave me one :)  The problem is more that I can't as easily test the behaviour on a chroot on your server (or would have to think more about it).
[12:33] <DrKranz> Ok, if you'll ever need some, just ask
[12:34] <DrKranz> now, let's improve my FTBFS script
[12:39] <persia> DrKranz: Another question: is Debian bug #448439 the same as Bug #88595 ?
[12:39] <ubotu> Debian bug 448439 in util-vserver "Config file not consistent" [Minor,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/448439
[12:39] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 88595 in util-vserver "[apport] vserver-info crashed with SIGSEGV" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/88595
[12:40] <joumetal> persia: qalculate-kde and qalculate-gtk both depends libqalculate.
[12:40] <persia> (or did you put something else in there that you want)
[12:41] <persia> joumetal: Yes.  As I understand things, there is an ongoing plan to take the work from REVU & the bug, tweak it for Debian, and send it up, syncing the results.
[12:42] <DrKranz> persia, I need to verify since I checked that for 0.30.214-4, but it doesn't seem the same issue for me
[12:43] <persia> DrKranz: Thanks.  I'll unsassign me and assign you then.  No rush: it looks to be fixed in hardy, but I don't know enough about the tools to be sure that we can link the bugs and have done with it.
[12:45] <persia> DrKranz: Wait: I misread.  "doesn't seem the same issue"?
[12:46] <DrKranz> Yes. I think they are two separate fixes
[12:46] <persia> DrKranz: Ah.  I see.  Both uploads have two fixes, and one is common, but the other isn't.  I'll just do a merge then.  Thanks.
[12:47] <DrKranz> persia, wait just a bit
[12:47]  * persia is always happy to wait
[12:47] <DrKranz> I would like to check it before and try to solve it another way (by fixing dietlibc)
[12:48] <DrKranz> since several packages suffers from segfaults during build time or at runtime, I think it's because of dietlibc being compiled with stack protector
[12:48] <DrKranz> or without it
[12:48] <persia> DrKranz: Ah.  That'd be even better, but I suspect it won't happen quick.  I'll just wait for it to come back in queue then.
[12:50] <DrKranz> this issue does not touch Debian since I think they do not do use of stack protector (correct me if I'm wrong)
[12:50] <persia> DrKranz: I don't believe they use a stack protector, but I'm not sure I understand the issue well enough to know that is the cause of the segfaults.
[12:52] <zul> morning
[12:53] <rexbron> persia: hey, I got the get-orig-source rule to work for genpo :)
[12:53] <DrKranz> It's three asm opcodes, IIRC. since dietlibc currently FTBFS if compiled with stack protector enabled, every package built against them should be instructed to disable it as well or by using gcc-3.4, even it's a workaround, not a fix
[12:53] <rexbron> little mistakes like forgetting to set variables outside the make target....
[12:53] <persia> rexbron: Excellent work!  I think that was the last issue, wasn't it?
[12:53] <rexbron> persia: other than the icon
[12:53] <rexbron> i think so
[12:54] <persia> DrKranz: Ah.  That makes sense.  I agree that dietlibc is the place to solve it.
[12:54] <persia> somerville32: Where's the "notecase" bug I was expecting?
[12:54] <DrKranz> I will look at it carefully, I just need time to discover *how* and eventually managing rebuilds/givebacks
[12:55] <persia> DrKranz: No rush.  I'm just trying to get the UUS queue back into shape so that people don't have to wait a few days to get uploaded.
[12:55] <proppy> hi
[12:56] <DrKranz> for now, you can safely remove it from the queue, since I'm focusing on the real source of the matter :)
[12:56] <rexbron> persia: also, I have switched to a versioned -dev package with a Provides: openlibraries-dev as per the debian library packaging guide and completely revamped the package structure to comply with policy
[12:57] <persia> rexbron: Excellent.  Monday will be a good day :)
[12:57] <RainCT> hi
[12:57] <rexbron> Is that when the next review day is?
[12:57] <DrKranz> see you later
[12:57] <rexbron> persia: I have also contacted upstream regarding setting -rpath on the libs, and they said they will look into it
[12:58]  * Hobbsee wonders if there's a way to see how far tracker is thru indexing.
[12:58] <persia> rexbron: Not officially, but likely.  Monday seems to be the least likely to conflict with anything else, but we confirm every MOTU Meeting.
[12:58] <rexbron> !schedual
[12:58] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about schedual - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[12:58] <rexbron> ...
[12:58] <rexbron> spelling
[12:58] <persia> Hobbsee: You can see current status, but don't be surprised if it gets confused.
[12:59] <Hobbsee> persia: right, so i tcan be indexing forever, with no way of knowing if it's actually done or not
[12:59] <persia> Hobbsee: Right.  Last week someone mentioned it had indexed the same static, unchanging file 472 times :)
[13:02] <Hobbsee> persia: keybuk likes cursing it.  wouldnt surprise me
[13:02] <persia> Hobbsee: That would be the source...
[13:03] <Hobbsee> hrm.  i wonder why it wont let me tell it to do thunderbird email indexing
[13:06]  * persia is impressed that submissions to the U-U-S queue are keeping even pace with removals: thank you for the contributions!
[13:15] <frafu> Hello, I am planning to submit an application to revu that is called mousetweaks and that adds accessibility functions to the pointer. It comes with a gui for the settings and a manual for yelp. It is also possible to enable the different features by cli and "mousetweaks --help" is available. But it does not have any man page. My Question: Are man pages required for the submission to revu?
[13:16] <rexbron> frafu: They are strongly recommended and having one will assist in getting the app into the archives
[13:17] <persia> frafu: They aren't required for submission, but they are almost always required for approval.  You may as well do it before you submit.
[13:18] <frafu> ok; thanks. Consequently, I have to look up how to create them...
[13:21] <persia> norsetto: Please stop blocking merge requests just because someone forget to set the status to "Confirmed"
[13:21] <persia> ls
[13:21] <norsetto> persia: its not stopping, is asking people to respect the procedures
[13:22] <norsetto> persia: it could be a good idea for you to remember them actually
[13:22] <persia> norsetto: Erm.  OK.  I'll go for that.
[13:22] <persia> norsetto: which ones?
[13:23] <norsetto> persia: an email to ubuntu-motu and ubuntu-motu-mentors for instance
[13:23] <persia> email about?
[13:23] <mok0> I
[13:23] <norsetto> persia: about setting the status and assignee correctly
[13:24]  * persia looks
[13:25] <mok0> I've had to make changes in aclocal.m4, so in debian/rules I need to patch, then run aclocal et al., then configure etc. Can this be accomplished using cdbs?
[13:25] <persia> norsetto: Any guidance on dates?  I'm not finding anything matching "assignee" and "ubuntu-motu" in my spool.
[13:25] <RainCT> norsetto: hi. why did you set bug 157992 to incomplete?
[13:25] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 157992 in bip "Please merge bip 0.6.1-1 from Debian unstable main" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/157992
[13:26] <norsetto> RainCT: because I ask you a question
[13:27] <norsetto> persia: I'm talking about SENDING an email to remember people, not about one that was sent already
[13:28] <geser> are we now that pedantic about the status in the u-u-s queue?
[13:28] <persia> norsetto: Sending an email to remind people about procedures?  Ah: I'm waiting until after the meeting, as the current agenda is filled with sponsoring procedure items, and I want to wait until we have a new consensus.
[13:29] <norsetto> geser: I would expect better from a member of the council; procedures are there for good reasons, for instance to make it easier for sponsors to work on the real bugs instead of sifting through them
[13:29] <persia> geser: At least I'm not currently, but norsetto raises a good point that people should be encouraged to follow the procedure.  I'm not taking a stance either way right now,
[13:31] <persia> norsetto: The easy way to achieve that is to have all triaged bugs uploaded or unsubscribed as documented at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Sponsorship/SponsorsQueue
[13:31] <norsetto> persia: thats right, but I wanted to be polite and ask the people, not just unsubscribe u-u-s
[13:32] <persia> norsetto: Right, but when it's not unsubscribed, someone else needs to look at it.
[13:32] <norsetto> persia: indeed
[13:37] <RainCT> norsetto: ah. well, a comment «merges awaiting sponsorship should be set to confirmed» would have been more useful ;P
[13:37] <geser> norsetto: I'm also for following procedures but I'm not to punish contributors because of a wrongly set status (unless that contributor got reminded about it)
[13:37] <norsetto> geser: nobody is punished. People is aksed why their bug is set fix-committed or new, is that a punishment? I consider this an help....
[13:37] <geser> especially when we have to difference between New and Confirmed (it's ok for using In Progress wrongly)
[13:38] <norsetto> gser: and yes, some contributors have been remineded not once, neither twice but several times already
[13:39] <persia> norsetto: Those contributors deserve a special purgatory.  I tend to unsubscribe and delay sponsoring until they have met my satisfaction in email or IRC.
[13:39] <norsetto> rainct: I don't know what you want to do with it, so asking is more approproiate than presuming I know
[13:40] <norsetto> persia: well, I'm not much for punishing (contrary to what some people presume)
[13:41] <RainCT> norsetto: ah, good point.
[13:42] <persia> norsetto: I guess it depends on the number of transgressions, and the nature thereof.
[13:43] <geser> norsetto: perhaps "punish" was to strong but setting a bug to incomplete is "there is something wrong/missing" on sponsoring request for me and I usually don't look at those bugs and ignore them
[13:44]  * persia also tends to ignore "Incomplete" except when the queue gets messy
[13:44] <norsetto> geser: yes, thats what I wanted to avoid "don't look at those bugs and ignore them", so, I aksed the people to correct and sponsor it afterwards (I know, I guess I'm pretty naif in believing that this will make them learn)
[13:46] <norsetto> huats: is the last patch agreed with pkern?
[13:46] <persia> norsetto: Not necessarily naive, perhaps optimistic.
[13:47] <norsetto> persia: as we say in my country: "hope is the last one to die" (you are good at hoping when you are at the bottom ;-))
[13:48] <geser> norsetto: it very optimistic in case of bug #157160
[13:48] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 157160 in ddclient "Please merge ddclient 3.7.3-4 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/157160
[13:51] <persia> geser: That's a somewhat special case though (and showing (slight and slow) improvement)
[13:52] <persia> geser: Just as a counterexample (not that I think UUS needs the extra subscribed bug traffic), bug #137513 is doing well.
[13:52] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 137513 in torbutton "[UNMETDEPS] torbutton: auto-synced, depends on iceweasel" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/137513
[13:55] <persia> Grr,  LLP should support approve / decline for release on a per-task basis!
[13:55] <RainCT> what do I need to do to create a pbuilder hardy environment (it says: « No such script: /usr/lib/debootstrap/scripts/hardy»)? install package debootstrap from hardy?
[13:55] <persia> RainCT: Just dist-upgrade from gutsy
[13:56] <geser> RainCT: yes, install debootstrap from hardy and it should work
[13:56] <persia> RainCT: As a general note, this is easiest to do the day the archive opens, as not much has changed.  Alternately, one can wait until there is a new working debootstrap, but this usually waits until the versions of the core software are somewhat stable.
[13:56] <persia> geser: it's already fixed?  It seems soon.
[13:57] <geser> the debootstrap package from hardy has a hardy script already
[13:57] <geser> there is no backport of it but it can be installed without problems on gutsy
[13:57] <RainCT> ok, thanks
[13:57] <geser> that's what I did to build a hardy pbuilder on gutsy
[13:58] <norsetto> yes,the debootstrap in hardy is ok, I used it several weeks ago already
[14:00] <pkern> norsetto: Hm?
[14:02] <norsetto> pkern: I was wondering if the last patch from huats for bug 137513 was discussed with you
[14:02] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 137513 in torbutton "[UNMETDEPS] torbutton: auto-synced, depends on iceweasel" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/137513
[14:16] <\sh> moins
[14:17] <\sh> can someone review bug #160733 and push it to the archive admins, pls? :)
[14:17] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 160733 in apertium "[MoM Sync] please sync apertium 3.0.4-1 from debian unstable" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/160733
[14:17] <pkern> norsetto: ACK'ed.
[14:18] <norsetto> pkern: thanks
[14:18] <persia> \sh: Thanks for catching that.
[14:18] <\sh> persia, I'm starting to work on my merges...so please be alarmed ,-)
[14:19] <persia> \sh: If you're starting your merges, I hope you're considering team applications again, or we'll be overwhelmed :)
[14:20] <\sh> persia, I'm rushing over the list of MoM with my name on it first...it looks like that's a lot again ,-)
[14:20] <persia> \sh: It can get that way if you're not careful...
[14:20]  * persia wonders why sbuild has suddenly decided not to work, only for apertium
[14:24] <huats> norsetto: no...
[14:24] <\sh> persia, well,grabmerge and checking the changelog first, building the debian package first, when the bugs are already fixed debian upstream...so I think most of them will result in syncs
[14:24] <huats> it was just myself who is an idiot...
[14:24] <norsetto> huats: well, you did now ;-)
[14:24] <norsetto> huats: oh come on!
[14:25] <persia> \sh: Excellent.  That makes chasing RC bugs later *much* easier.
[14:25] <huats> I did the same mistake twice "putting it the status to fix committed" once I have put a patch....
[14:26] <\sh> persia, the latest uploads with my name on it were CVE bug fixes or FTBFS source fixes...most reported to debian already
[14:26] <persia> \sh: That makes it extra easy.  I should really start doing the hard stuff, instead of the little things that don't matter and sit in the BTS for six to eight months...
[14:27] <huats> norsetto: but it has been discussed with pkern and (I don't remember his name) (a guy who is "charge" with firefox in ubuntu...)
[14:27] <norsetto> huats: asac ....
[14:27] <huats> norsetto: exactly
[14:27] <persia> norsetto: Thanks for the catch.  I was reviewing the bug, and failed to adequately review the patch.
[14:27] <huats> (it was some weeks ago)
[14:27] <geser> how long does it currently take to get an universe package build?
[14:28] <persia> geser: About a week.
[14:28] <\sh> persia, would it be better to tag those sync reports with hardy-mom-sync or something like that?
[14:28] <norsetto> persia: no need to thank, we are all in the same boat :-)
[14:28] <persia> \sh: Doesn't really make a difference.  I use the sync tag, but neither UUS nor UA sorts by tag
[14:28] <persia> Errr  "sync" tag
[14:29] <\sh> persia, ok...so I just subscribe uus
[14:30] <persia> \sh: Depends on your preferred workflow.  Some people use requestsync, some create a bug.  If you're doing the bug by hand, I find it easier to use the "complicated bug filing form", in which case the tag field is easy to enter.
[14:30] <\sh> persia, I have a script for that ,-)
[14:31] <persia> \sh: Bug generally, yes, just subscribe the team.  We hit single digits today, so I expect processing for hardy-targeted patches to happen within 24 hours for the next few weeks.
[14:31] <persia> That explains your interestingly formatted bug :)
[14:39] <norsetto> huats: still around?
[14:39] <huats> norsetto: yep
[14:40] <norsetto> huats: you patch is for gutsy ....
[14:40] <huats> norsetto: it was done during gutsy...
[14:40] <huats> and never reviewed since...
[14:40] <norsetto> huats: because somebody used the wrong status most probably ....
[14:41] <huats> (probably because I did a mistake in the status)
[14:41] <huats> exactly
[14:41] <huats> I am faulty
[14:41] <huats> ...
[14:41] <norsetto> huats: anyhow, is this needed for hardy?
[14:41] <huats> it is
[14:41] <huats> I think
[14:41] <huats> let me chack
[14:41] <huats> check
[14:44] <huats> norsetto: since it is the same package in gutsy and hardy...
[14:44] <huats> it is still needed for hardy...
[14:44] <norsetto> huats: right, do you think an sru is justified?
[14:44] <pkern> It delivers a completely new, untested package.
[14:44] <huats> well, right now without that, the package is unsuable
[14:45] <huats> so without it there is a unmetdependency pb with it...
[14:45] <norsetto> pkern, huats: what is the lesser evil, removing it from gutsy or fixing it?
[14:47] <norsetto> pkern, huats: or, we fix it in hardy (which we do anyhow) and ask for a backport
[14:48] <huats> from my point of view, the modifications are very little... depenences on firefox/thunderbird were added.... and thus creation of new single package that has every link possible (once for FF, one for TB, one for icedove and one for iceweasel) instead of having 2 identicals packages (1 for icedove/1for 1iceweasel)
[14:53] <geser> Hi bddebian
[14:53] <\sh> moins barry
[14:53] <bddebian> Heya gang
[14:53] <bddebian> Hi geser, \sh
[14:54] <norsetto> huats: what is the short description?
[14:55] <huats> norsetto: short description?
[14:55] <norsetto> huats: yes, the one in /control
[14:55] <huats> oh
[14:56] <huats> let me check again...
[14:58] <\sh> ok..time to go home :)
[14:58] <\sh> cu tomorrow :)
[14:58] <huats> norsetto: I have reflect in the description that right now the package deals with FF/TB/icedove/iceweasel
[14:58] <huats> \sh: good night
[14:59] <\sh> huats, a good night is far away for me :)
[14:59] <norsetto> huats: right now it seems that the short description is spilling over to the long one?
[14:59] <\sh> if someone wants to do something, I filed some sync reqs...some are already acked by persia the others are in the sponsors queue
[14:59] <\sh> thx
[14:59] <Nafallo> meeh
[15:00] <huats> norsetto: rrrrggggg
[15:00] <huats> norsetto: it was with myself...
[15:00] <norsetto> huats: np, I'm working on it in real time
[15:00] <huats> ok
[15:01] <huats> norsetto: I am booting my personal computer where I still have all the fileS...
[15:01] <norsetto> huats: if we add all the programs its too long, so either we omit them all, or we simply say "browser"
[15:02] <huats> norsetto: browser is not really an option
[15:02] <huats> since there is Thunderbird/Icedove
[15:03] <norsetto> huats: what about "1 click Tor extension" and we add all of those in the long one?
[15:04] <norsetto> huats: the alternative is to use the name Mozilla somewhere
[15:04] <norsetto> huats: right now the long description only talk of iceweasel
[15:05] <norsetto> huats: ok, what about "Description: iceweasel/firefox/icedove/thunderbird 1-click Tor extension" for the short (sic) one
[15:06] <huats> norsetto: great
[15:06] <norsetto> huats: ok, I'm adding the whole plethora to the long one too
[15:06] <huats> ok
[15:07] <norsetto> first line: Torbutton is a 1-click way for iceweasel/firefox/icedove/thunderbird users to
[15:07] <norsetto> second line: enable or disable the browser's use of Tor (an anynomous communication system).
[15:08] <norsetto> huats: hmmm, browser should go too
[15:08] <huats> norsetto: I think so
[15:09] <huats> but since it was the original text (from the Debian Package) I haven't modified it a lot...
[15:09] <norsetto> huats: what is the criteria for the versions in Depends?
[15:09] <huats> none
[15:09] <huats> I just took the one in the current ones
[15:09] <huats> at the moment...
[15:10] <huats> (that is regarding FF and TB)
[15:10] <huats> for Ice* I took the versions in the Debian Package
[15:13] <norsetto> huats: you tested it only with FF or with all?
[15:13] <huats> norsetto: with FF/TB
[15:13] <huats> since I don't have a debian it is not possible for testing  with Ice*
[15:14] <norsetto> huats: thats not a problem, you can most probably install the debian package
[15:14]  * norsetto wonders why we keep the icedove then
[15:15] <huats> norsetto: like for the iceweasel
[15:15] <norsetto> huats: I mean, asac and pkern told you to add icedove and iceweasel even if we don't have them in ubuntu?
[15:15] <huats> since we hope to send it to debian I think... (that was the idea of asac I think)
[15:16] <norsetto> huats: you want to be surprised? Do an apt-cache search iceweasel
[15:17] <huats> yeah I know
[15:17] <huats> it is the one in the name
[15:17] <huats> that is why asac told me to rename it...
[15:18] <norsetto> huats: ok, let me build and test it, if ok I may upload it to hardy
[15:18] <huats> ok
[15:18] <norsetto> huats: but for gutsy its either an sru or backport
[15:18] <norsetto> huats: or a removal ....
[15:18] <huats> I know....
[15:18] <huats> I think the removal will be a bit silly
[15:19] <huats> since the work is done
[15:19] <huats> but I understand that the backport may not be simple.... and I am not even talking about the SRU
[15:22] <norsetto> huats: I can't sponsor the sru anyhow, since I can't test it (I have neither ff nor tb and don't want to install them for this....)
[15:23] <huats> norsetto: I was not asking that
[15:23] <norsetto> huats: I know, but I would have gladly done it if ff or tb were not involved
[15:24] <huats> norsetto: I know
[15:25] <norsetto> huats: is this tor thingie really working?
[15:25] <huats> norsetto: honnestly I don't know
[15:25] <huats> :-)
[15:25] <norsetto> huats: I imagined ;-)
[15:29] <norsetto> huats: I need to test this, so let me log out and install the bloated FF in another partition
[15:29] <huats> ok
[15:30] <huats> or send me your .deb...
[15:44] <norsetto> huats: looks good with FF. I trust that you tested it with TB succesfully?
[15:44] <huats> I did
[15:44] <huats> but I'll understood if you want to test it by yourself...
[15:47] <norsetto> huats: uploaded it, I also unsubscribed u-u-s, please subscribe again once decided what to do for gutsy
[15:47] <huats> norsetto: because i am the one who should decide ?
[15:47] <huats> norsetto: what is your opinion ?
[15:48] <norsetto> huats: you are the one working on it, its up to you and/or the bug reporter
[15:48] <huats> ok
[15:48] <huats> so I have to see that with pkern
[15:49] <norsetto> huats: my personal opinion is to try a backport now that it is in hardy
[15:49] <huats> ok
[15:49] <pkern> What.
[15:49] <pkern> You highlight me all the time.
[15:49] <huats> :-)
[15:49] <huats> you are the bug reporter....
[15:49] <pkern> Oh, right.
[15:49] <huats> so your opinion is highly valuable
[15:49] <huats> :D
[15:49] <pkern> *cough*
[15:50] <huats> it is still regarding  bug 137513
[15:50] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 137513 in torbutton "[UNMETDEPS] torbutton: auto-synced, depends on iceweasel" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/137513
[15:50] <pkern> I don't see much harm in a backport.
[15:50] <pkern> But I'm against a SRU.
[15:50] <mok0> How can I get pbuilder to include multiverse, other than creating a new one?
[15:50] <huats> great
[15:50] <pkern> It should have been removed from gutsy, though.
[15:50] <pkern> From gutsy proper.
[15:50] <huats> I understand
[15:51] <huats> is it possible to remove it right now, and do a backport ?
[15:52] <pkern> For the former the archive admins are responsible, for the latter the backports team
[15:54] <huats> but I mean, doing both actions... will it makes  sense ?
[15:54] <huats> I think it will...
[15:54] <huats> but I am not confortable with that procedures...
[15:56] <Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: can I ask you a thinh ?
[15:56] <Rospo_Zoppo> *thing
[15:56] <ScottK> Removals after release are almost never done.  Usually it has to be something like it's illegal not to remove it.
[15:57] <huats> ScottK: it is an unmet dep...
[15:57] <ScottK> huats: They won't remove it for that.
[15:57] <huats> ScottK: ok
[15:58] <huats> thanks
[15:59] <pkern> ScottK: I really dislike this attitude.
[16:00] <ScottK> pkern: I'm not an archive admin, so I can't affect it.
[16:00] <Hobbsee> gutsy is frozen, they wont remove anything.
[16:00] <Hobbsee> (unless illegal or something)
[16:00] <ScottK> Hobbsee: Maybe you could weigh in on the best way to solve the unmet deps problem that huats is working on?
[16:01] <huats> ScottK and Hobbsee  : we (I mean with norsetto) have uploaded to hardy
[16:01] <Hobbsee> huats: good
[16:01] <norsetto> Rospo_Zoppo: shoot :-)
[16:01] <huats> and we were thinking of a backport for gutsy...
[16:01] <bluekuja> Hobbsee, not yet, just went home. I'll look at it now in few minutes
[16:02] <bluekuja> :)
[16:02] <Hobbsee> bluekuja: i filed a wishlist bug in debian abotu it, FYI
[16:02] <Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: ehm, too late :)
[16:02] <Hobbsee> ScottK: hm.  fix in hardy, anything before that is a bonus.
[16:02] <ScottK> RIght.
[16:02] <Hobbsee> (ther'es much bigger stuff to fix, and other stuff to do)
[16:02] <bluekuja> Hobbsee, want me to update it anyway?
[16:02] <ScottK> So the question is can we put a new package in Updates
[16:02] <bluekuja> Hobbsee, or we wait debian?
[16:02] <bluekuja> (hoping to have ries again working)
[16:02] <Hobbsee> bluekuja: no idea how responsive debian are.
[16:02] <Hobbsee> ries?
[16:03] <Hobbsee> ScottK: if you do a SRU, yes.
[16:03] <norsetto> Rospo_Zoppo: oh well ... next time don't ask to ask, ask :-)
[16:03] <bluekuja> Hobbsee, ries.debian.org aka ftp-master
[16:03] <Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: ok :)
[16:03] <bluekuja> currently down
[16:03] <bluekuja> for some hard-drive problems
[16:03] <bluekuja> I think
[16:03] <Hobbsee> bluekuja: oh, right.  i find it hard enough to remember the codenames of the canonical machines, let alone the debian machine names, in most cases
[16:03] <Hobbsee> yeah, multiple hard drive failure.
[16:03] <ScottK> norsetto and huats: I'd take what Hobbsee said and think SRU rather than backports.  A backport wouldn't be a proper solution anyway
[16:03] <bluekuja> yep :/
[16:04] <Hobbsee> if you'd said ftp-master... :)
[16:04] <Hobbsee> i would have got it
[16:04] <bluekuja> yeah, sorry
[16:04] <bluekuja> :)
[16:04] <Hobbsee> no problem
[16:04] <bluekuja> it's faster to say ries
[16:04] <bluekuja> you know
[16:04] <bluekuja> :)
[16:04] <Hobbsee> indeed
[16:04] <bluekuja> so less words
[16:04] <bluekuja> :P
[16:04] <Hobbsee> type faster :P
[16:04] <bluekuja> hehe :D
[16:04] <Hobbsee> problem solved.
[16:04] <bluekuja> true :)
[16:04] <norsetto> scottK: whatever you guys decide, I call me out for an sru
[16:05] <bluekuja> Hobbsee, anyway if you want me to do it, it's fine
[16:05] <bluekuja> if not we wait debian
[16:05] <bluekuja> same for me
[16:05] <Hobbsee> bluekuja: go ahead :)
[16:05] <bluekuja> oki :)
[16:06] <bluekuja> Hobbsee, you may open a wishlist for ubuntu as well
[16:06] <ScottK> norsetto: I don't decide anything.
[16:06] <bluekuja> and assign to me
[16:06] <Hobbsee> bluekuja: that would require effort, and i doubt anyone else will touch it anyway
[16:06] <norsetto> scottk: whatever you guys who partecipate in the decison making process concord
[16:06] <Hobbsee> (seeing as it's not shown on mom, etc)
[16:07] <ScottK> norsetto: For SRU it's up to the MOTU uploading.  I'm just suggesting the archive would take and SRU, but not a removal.  It's advice, not a decison.
[16:07] <bluekuja> Hobbsee, yeah, fine then
[16:09] <norsetto> scottk: on the sru bit, I actually had a chat with martin yesterday
[16:09] <ScottK> OK.
[16:09] <ScottK> What did he say?
[16:10] <norsetto> scottk: he is apparently not very happy about the decision to disactivate motu-sru
[16:10] <ScottK> OK.  Well that was done quite some time ago.
[16:11] <norsetto> scottk: right, but he is of the opinion that this policy should be changed (or something to that effect, don't remember the exact words)
[16:12] <ScottK> OK.  Well for now it is what it is.  He can argue at a MOTU meeting if he thinks it should be different (I'm inclined to agree with him though).
[16:13] <norsetto> scottK: in principle I also think he is right, in practice adding another layer to a procedure which is already very long (months right now) will not make things easier
[16:14] <bluekuja> Hobbsee, for versioning should I continue the +debian tag?
[16:14] <bluekuja> or I use default versioning
[16:15] <Hobbsee> i'm not sure why the +debian is there at all, tbh.  it seems to have been there from the original release - so i'm not sure if they've repackaged it, or what
[16:15] <bluekuja> yeah, I don't understand why they use that tag as well
[16:16] <bluekuja> plus there is a debian dir inside as well
[16:16] <bluekuja> (inside orig)
[16:17] <bluekuja> Hobbsee, plus debian package is 1.8 MB
[16:17] <bluekuja> upstream now is 6.8
[16:18] <bluekuja> bzr folder inside....removed...and now we have 2.8
[16:19] <norsetto> huats: what do you make of this: "Programme pour créer des cartes mentales"
[16:21] <norsetto> huats: Seems like something out of a mental asylum to me. In English is "Program to create mind maps"
[16:21] <bluekuja> Hobbsee, I'll use default versioning then
[16:21] <bluekuja> until we wait debian
[16:22] <Hobbsee> ok
[16:24] <pkern> Hobbsee: Of course it's frozen.  It should have been removed pre-release, of course.
[16:25] <Hobbsee> of course, yes.
[16:26] <DaveMorris> Hi, I've packaged up OpenSG and put it on REVU, can someone take a look at it for me please : http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=opensg-dev
[16:31] <bear> hello folks
[16:32] <pkern> Hobbsee: But people are against removing early.  Maybe a morgue will be implemented.
[16:32] <bear> looking to start the process to get some python packages into universe, basically to become a MOTU
[16:33] <bear> started with the package builder guide - working thru it - is there a FAQ for what I need to setup on launchpad - kinda a "best practices" guide?
[16:33] <Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: sebastien suggested me not to traslate the .desktop file at all and to get it translated upstream
[16:33] <ScottK> norsetto: It doesn't have to be months.  I've gotten them out in a week.  It's mostly a question of testing.  If we had a dedicated motu-sru team that was actually responsive, it wouldn't have to add a lot of time.
[16:33] <norsetto> scottk: agreed
[16:34] <pkern> ScottK: Those need manpower?  I thought stuff is done by MOTUs all by themselves?
[16:34] <norsetto> scottk: my personal experience right now is unfortunately in the order of months, so much so that I'm personally thinking to not bother anymore
[16:34] <ScottK> pkern: Sure, but we do have stuff like motu-uvf where they have some extra role.
[16:34] <pkern> ScottK: i.e. upload, verification-motu-needed and -done, and intervention of the archive admins?  Or is the task of motu-sru to ACK uploads?
[16:35] <norsetto> Rospo_Zoppo: well, I agree in principle with sebastien, in this case its a desktop in debian though
[16:35]  * pkern needs an Ubuntu env again, but Ubuntu makes it hard.
[16:35] <norsetto> rospo_zoppo: so, what you are doing is correct, passing over the .desktop to debian and asking them
[16:35] <Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: yep I didn't consider that :)
[16:36] <Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: so let's do as you said
[16:36] <ScottK> pkern: I think (and we need to discuss) that motu-sru would pass on should something be an SRU (is it SRU worthy and is the approach reasonable for an SRU).
[16:36] <norsetto> Rospo_Zoppo: if debian is not responsive (which doesn't seem to be the case in this case) we might need to do differently of course
[16:38] <Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: do you know someone here who knows french or german ? :)
[16:38] <norsetto> bear: have you checked the packaging guide?
[16:39] <norsetto> Rospo_Zoppo: geser is german and huats french, sebastien too ;-)
[16:39] <Rospo_Zoppo> ok
[16:39] <bear> norsetto, yep - saw it was under-going change so just wanted to double check I was in the right spot
[16:40] <Rospo_Zoppo> geser: can you tell me how would you translate "create mind maps" in german ?
[16:40] <huats> norsetto: can you replace the context ?
[16:40] <norsetto> bear: it is indeed being worked on, so you may find soime duplications here and there and some "work in progress" stuff
[16:40] <huats> Rospo_Zoppo: I am french indeed
[16:41] <norsetto> bear: if thats a problem, you can use the old one, let me fetch a link for you
[16:41] <bear> norsetto, cool - I'll get to the point where I have one of the python packages with a deb setup
[16:41] <Rospo_Zoppo> huats: ok, can you tell me how would it be in french ?
[16:41] <bear> norsetto, not a problem at all - just making sure I hit the ground running and don't wander down a wrong path
[16:41] <Rospo_Zoppo> huats: I mean "Create mind maps"
[16:42] <norsetto> bear: here: http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html but you won't find much about packaging for python there
[16:42] <azeem> .
[16:42] <azeem> eh, oops
[16:42] <huats> Rospo_Zoppo: can you explain me the context a bit ?
[16:42] <azeem> EWIN
[16:42] <bear> norsetto, yea, saw that - was going to find a recent package and see how they did it
[16:42] <Nightrose> Rospo_Zoppo: "Mindmap erstellen" vor the German one :)
[16:43] <Nightrose> *for
[16:43] <Rospo_Zoppo> huats: it is a comment for a .desktop file
[16:43] <norsetto> bear: you can check joekosher, its one of our reference packages for python
[16:43] <norsetto> bear: jokosher even
[16:44] <bear> norsetto, oh sweet - that is perfect
[16:44] <Rospo_Zoppo> Nightrose: thanks, but is the verb the first word ? if not, is it possible to have that ?
[16:44]  * bear goes to write that down
[16:44] <huats> Rospo_Zoppo: what package is it ?
[16:44] <Rospo_Zoppo> huats: it's vym
[16:44] <huats> Rospo_Zoppo: let me check this package
[16:44] <huats> and I come with the sentence
[16:44] <RainCT> Rospo_Zoppo: (I can Catalan and Spanish, if you want them :))
[16:44] <huats> :-)
[16:44] <Rospo_Zoppo> huats: thank you
[16:44] <Nightrose> Rospo_Zoppo: the verb is "erstellen" - can't think of one where the verb is at the beginning
[16:45] <norsetto> bear: I cal also suggest you look at this: http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/python-policy/ and this: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy, at least to have things in a context
[16:45] <norsetto> nightrose: imperative?
[16:46] <Rospo_Zoppo> RainCT: there is no spanish entry at all at the moment, but we can add it :)
[16:46] <Nightrose> norsetto: possible but sounds strange: "erstelle eine Mindmap"
[16:46] <norsetto> Rospo_Zoppo: try and tell rainCT that catalan is not a language and watch for his reaction :-)
[16:46] <Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: lol
[16:46] <huats> :D
[16:47] <Rospo_Zoppo> Nightrose: does it sound ugly ?
[16:47] <RainCT> Rospo_Zoppo: I don't mind about the Spanish one, having the Catalan translation would be nice (if it isn't already there) :). what package is it, btw? :P
[16:47] <Nightrose> Rospo_Zoppo: I think so
[16:47] <Rospo_Zoppo> RainCT: vym
[16:47]  * RainCT slaps norsetto
[16:48] <Rospo_Zoppo> lol
[16:48] <norsetto> Rospo_Zoppo: see?  I was lucky he was half my size .....
[16:50] <RainCT> ah you said it to Rospo, didn't read your first msg well lol
[16:50] <RainCT> haha
[17:05] <Rospo_Zoppo> huats: the previous string was Programme pour créer des cartes mentales
[17:06] <huats> Rospo_Zoppo: oui j'ai vu
[17:06] <huats> Rospo_Zoppo: oups
[17:06] <huats> Rospo_Zoppo: yeah I saw
[17:06] <Rospo_Zoppo> huats: :D
[17:06] <huats> :-)
[17:07] <Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: do you think that even the name string should be translated ?
[17:07] <norsetto> Rospo_Zoppo: can you remember it for me?
[17:08] <Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: the name of the package ?
[17:08] <norsetto> Rospo_Zoppo: no, what the name string was? And how you changed it?
[17:08] <huats> Rospo_Zoppo: so we need a sentence that starts with an imperativ verb right ?
[17:08] <Rospo_Zoppo> huats: yep
[17:08] <Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: VYM - View Your Mind
[17:09] <Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: I don't know if we have to translate this because there is VYM
[17:09] <Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: and we should find three words with VYM in each language
[17:10] <norsetto> Rospo_Zoppo: yes, leave it like this, catalans are intelligent enough to understand it anyhow
[17:10] <RainCT> lol
[17:10] <Rospo_Zoppo> lol
[17:11]  * norsetto is surprised he has not been splapped again!? SO he slaps himself
[17:11] <Rospo_Zoppo> lol
[17:12] <RainCT> XD
[17:12] <RainCT> norsetto: I'll take it as a compliment :P
[17:12] <norsetto> rainct : it was :-)
[17:13] <huats> Rospo_Zoppo: "Créez vos propres représentations mentales" would be ok I think
[17:14] <Rospo_Zoppo> huats: thank you very much
[17:14] <Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: now the .desktop file is complete
[17:14] <huats> Rospo_Zoppo: no pb
[17:15] <norsetto> Rospo_Zoppo: cool, send it to the debian bug report then
[17:15] <Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: yes
[17:15] <Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: if you want to check, here is the debdiff http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1791/
[17:16] <norsetto> Rospo_Zoppo: I don't remember, was this the one where you added the .xpm icon?
[17:17] <Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: no, that was njam :)
[17:17]  * norsetto is becoming older each day that passes
[17:17] <Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: bug number 159313
[17:17] <Rospo_Zoppo> lol
[17:18] <norsetto> Rospo_Zoppo: looks ok, I think that sending the .desktop is enough isn't?
[17:18] <Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: just sent it
[17:19] <Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: is it necessary for me to attach that debdiff in lp ?
[17:19] <norsetto> bug 159313
[17:19] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 159313 in vym "Please merge vym 1.10.0 from Debian unstable " [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/159313
[17:20] <Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: have you read what I wrote in the debian bug report
[17:20] <Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: Vym .desktop file is ok
[17:20] <Rospo_Zoppo> :D
[17:22] <norsetto> Rospo_Zoppo: yes pls, but don't subscribe yet u-u-s, lets wait to see what debian is doing and then we decide. If debian is not doing anything in a reasonable amount of timealso re-subscribe u-u-s, ok?
[17:22] <norsetto> Rospo_Zoppo: you may also leave a remark in DaD about the bug number so that other people is warned about the merge