[12:31] <Pupeno-> Hello.
[12:31] <crimsun> hi.
[12:35] <Pupeno-> Does anybody know what might be causing this error: http://paste.lisp.org/display/18522 ?
[12:37] <Pupeno-> I am currently uploading the package for all to see, but it'll take a while on my dialup.
[12:38] <crimsun> is emacs21 installed?
[12:38] <bddebian> The emacs lisp crap isn't installed?
[12:38] <crimsun> i.e., why dpkg -i ?
[12:39] <crimsun> is erlang-base installed?
[12:39] <Pupeno-> crimsun: emacs21 is installed.
[12:40] <Pupeno-> bddebian: the package didn't have a problem untill I upgraded so I supouse the emacs lisp *crap* is installed.
[12:40] <Pupeno-> crimsun: how else should I install a .deb ?
[12:40] <Pupeno-> crimsun: erlang-base is installed.
[12:40] <Pupeno-> Note: this is a package I am building (actually, upgrading).
[12:40] <crimsun> Pupeno-: I presume erlang is already installed, then.
[12:41] <crimsun> i.e., what are the differences in the postinsts?
[12:42] <Pupeno-> crimsun: I am installing erlang. Erlang is the package I am making.
[12:42] <Pupeno-> crimsun: none, I kept the debian directory as is. I only got rid of most of the patches to the rest of the tree (most were patched upstream).
[12:44] <crimsun> Pupeno-: dpkg -l erlang|grep ^ii
[12:44] <Pupeno-> $ dpkg -l erlang|grep ^ii
[12:44] <Pupeno-> ii  erlang         10.b.10        A real-time, concurrent and distributed functional language
[12:45] <crimsun> it installed just fine. You just need to check the emacs policy to make sure the site-locals are correct.
[12:45] <crimsun> (I'm not familiar w/ emacs policy)
[12:46] <Pupeno-> crimsun: I know it finishes installing, but emacs complaints, the original version didn't have that problem.
[12:46] <Pupeno-> ok.
[12:47] <crimsun> Pupeno-: then you should ask in an emacs-related channel; this one's not really appropriate.
[12:47] <crimsun> I don't know offhand who our emacs gurus are, so I can't point you to them readily
[12:48] <Pupeno-> but I'll try anyway.
[12:49] <bddebian> It certainly isn't me, I'm a nano fan.. :-)
[01:08] <crimsun> mm buildd screwage.
[01:08] <crimsun> http://librarian.launchpad.net/1834920/buildlog_ubuntu-dapper-i386.linuxdcpp_0.0.1.cvs20060116-1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[01:12] <bddebian> Nice
[01:12] <bddebian> better tell infinity :-)
[01:13] <crimsun> even worse, I spent 1 hour futzing with migrating pbuilder only to discover pmount's flags prevented that (nothing sudo mount -o remount,.. doesn't fix), and then I discover that linuxdcpp builds just fine.   I couldn't remember dpatch-edit-patch for some reason?? :-(  Thanks though~
[02:53] <bddebian> !
[02:55] <LaserJock> ah, yes, fun-n-games with dpatch ;-)
[03:17] <Toadstool> 'night here
[03:40] <bddebian> Ack what do I do with this piece of crap that doesn't have a dirs file?
[03:41] <LaserJock> something like install -d perhaps
[03:42] <bddebian> I was thinking that
[03:42] <bddebian> It creates the debian/usr/share/applications but doesn't install it.. :-(
[03:43] <LaserJock> you did install -d on the directory or file?
[03:45] <bddebian> Neither it was a patch on Malone.  He just added dh_install... and dh_desktop
[03:53] <bmonty> hi LaserJock, bddebian
[03:53] <LaserJock> hi bmonty!
[03:55] <bmonty> bddebian: are you working on packages again?
[03:55] <bmonty> LaserJock: how are things going?
[03:56] <LaserJock> bmonty: oh, very busy. Got tons of stuff to do. And you?
[03:56] <bmonty> very busy as well....seems like every day this week, by the time I get home I only feel like going to sleep :(
[03:59] <LaserJock> yep
[04:08] <bddebian> bmonty: Moi?  No never :-)
[04:33] <bmonty> hmm..I hope bluefoxicity comes back...I've got openldap+kerberos running on my network and I am thinking about writing a spec for dapper+1
[04:43] <dolson> bddebian: I am here now...
[04:46] <dolson> slomo__: ah yes, that was my doing. :D
[05:04] <crimsun> bddebian: pong
[05:04] <crimsun> bddebian: unpong
[05:08] <bddebian> Ugh?
[05:08] <bddebian> Oh
[05:16] <bddebian> Jesus, maelstroms rules file is a freakin' mess
[05:55] <rami> \q
[05:59] <dolson> bddebian: hey.. I was using diff. I never heard of debbdiff before
[06:02] <bddebian> dolson: Well it appears that you are diffing against an empty directory or something.  Everything looks like it's coming in as a new file.
[06:02] <bddebian> dolson: Check out debdiff.  After you build a package you can just debdiff the resulting .dsc or .deb against the original
[06:03] <dolson> that's weird... I made patches before that next had that problem
[06:04] <LaserJock> hi seth
[06:04] <bddebian> dolson: What do you use with diff?  -Nurp?
[06:04] <dolson> yeah
[06:04] <bddebian> Hmm
[06:04] <LaserJock> hmm, I usually use -Naur or -ruN (that one is easy to remember)
[06:06] <dolson> -purN is like porn, but with a u
[06:08] <LaserJock> hmm, ok I didn't really want that picture ("check out the diff pr0n")  ;-)
[06:08] <dolson> put that in your doc
[06:09] <bddebian> heh
[06:46] <truz24> LaserJock, So I got dapper installed by installing breezy and then upgrading to dapper... but now it says xorg won't start because xorg isn't setup correctly, is it because my video card is too new ( ati x700 )
[06:46] <LaserJock> hmm, not sure
[06:47] <LaserJock> did it work with breezy?
[06:47] <truz24> no
[06:48] <truz24> I was hoping it would be fixed in dapper :-)
[06:48] <hub> truz24: what if you force to ati driver?
[06:49] <LaserJock> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/?action=fullsearch&context=180&value=x700&fullsearch=Text might be promising
[06:49] <hub> truz24: the problem with video cards is that it is not simple
[06:51] <truz24> lspci |grep ati shows "ati tech ... Unknown device "
[06:51] <hub> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardwareSupportComponentsVideoCards?highlight=%28x700%29
[06:51] <hub> but you are out of luck
[06:51] <hub> kick ATI for that
[06:52] <truz24> how do i force it to use "ati"
[06:54] <hub> you need to edit the xorg.conf file
[06:55] <truz24> isn't there a dpkg-reconfigure way to do it ?
[06:55] <hub> see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BinaryDriverHowto
[06:55] <truz24> its been a looong time since i've had to configure x manually
[06:55] <hub> end https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BinaryDriverHowto/ATI
[06:55] <truz24> yeah, i saw the redirect too
[06:57] <truz24> sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg -- thats what i was thinking of :-)
[07:02] <truz24> hub, thanks, i am up and going in xorg now :-)
[07:03] <truz24> I just used the fglrx driver
[07:24] <persia> About .desktop bugs: some time ago I filed a bunch, and was uploading patches, but was asked to stop.  I've seen quite a few uploads with the new .desktop files in the past few days.  May I resume creating/fixing .desktop files & drafting patches to packages?
[07:24] <bddebian> persia: Hmm, uh oh, maybe that was my mistake.  Am I not supposed to be uploading them? :)
[07:26] <persia> I don't know.  I think they should be fixed, but the stated reason to avoid fixing them in Ubuntu was that it increased the load on those coordinating with Debian, and broke automatic sync from sid.
[07:27] <bddebian> Great, I'm probably in trouble again :-)
[07:28] <persia> bddebian: Maybe it's a timing question.  I started my mass effort before the freeze, and was only asked to stop after opening >40 bugs in a single day :)
[07:31] <bddebian> Well, shit.. :-(
[07:32] <truz24> lol
[07:38] <ajmitch__> hey Hobbsee
[07:39] <Hobbsee> hey ajmitch__
[07:40] <Kyral> Shower felt good :D
[07:40] <Kyral> lol
[07:40] <Hobbsee> off to fix the phone...
[07:41] <bddebian> persia: ajmitch__ might know, he knows everything :-)
[07:42] <Hobbsee> or not...woot!
[07:42] <Hobbsee> phone has to work - dad just called from teh US
[07:42] <persia> ajmitch_: Do you know if fixes for .desktop files for Dapper are welcome?
[07:42] <Kyral> lol
[07:42] <Kyral> talk about long distance :D
[07:42] <Kyral> oh that reminds me
[07:42] <Kyral> LaserJock: go ahead and upload that patch to EasyChem
[07:43] <Kyral> I cannot apply it right now for obvious reasons
[07:47] <LaserJock> persia: they are
[07:48] <persia> LaserJock: Thanks.  I'll make some more, and upload patches.  If bddebian is allowed out of his hole, he'll probably upload them :)
[07:49] <Kyral> LJ?
[07:50] <LaserJock> yeah
[07:50] <LaserJock> yeah, yeah, yeah ;-)
[07:51] <Kyral> 'cause yanno, its hard to build debpacks on ArchLinux :P
[07:51] <Kyral> I'll start using Kubuntu again when Dapper+1 opens :D
[07:51] <LaserJock> Kyral: it's called dual booting
[07:52] <Kyral> you should talk....
[07:53] <LaserJock> Kyral: heh, I'm versatile.
[07:53] <Kyral> and I'm curious....
[07:53] <Kyral> and that sounded sketchy
[07:53] <bddebian> persia: No, thank YOU :-)
[07:53] <bddebian> OK, it's 2am now with daylight savings.  Gnight folks
[07:53] <LaserJock> cya bddebian
[08:13] <Amaranth> crap, that's tonight
[08:13] <Amaranth> at 1am it jumps to 2am, right?
[08:13] <Kyral> huhwha?
[08:13] <Kyral> in the US?
[08:14] <ajmitch__> probably
[08:16] <Kyral> what time is it? UTC?
[08:17] <robitaille> yes, US is change time tonight
[08:17] <robitaille> s/change/changing
[08:18] <Kyral> someone just tell me what time it is Eastern so I can set my clock lol
[08:18] <Kyral> already screwed up my system clocl
[08:18] <robitaille> I think it should 2:18am in the east...with the time change already done
[08:24] <Kyral> meh I'll just let my computer take care of it...
[08:25] <Hobbsee> hehe
[08:25] <Hobbsee> just make sure you turn up to work/whatever at teh right time
[08:25] <Kyral> stupid DST
[08:25] <Kyral> only thing tomorrow is Church
[08:25] <Kyral> I mean my Cell hasn't "turned over" yet
[08:25] <Hobbsee> yeah, well it's worth being on time to that...
[08:27] <robitaille> I'm sure my kids will wake me up at the "wrong" time anyway tomorrow morning...
[08:27] <Kyral> maybe it takes affect at 2 AM?
[08:28] <ajmitch__> Kyral: it usually does
[08:28] <Kyral> MEH! Why did they even invent DST?!
[08:28] <ajmitch__> to confuse people like you
[08:28] <Kyral> ....
[08:28] <Kyral> are you calling me a simpleton
[08:28] <ajmitch__> Hobbsee: stalkers?
[08:29] <Hobbsee> ajmitch__: just idiots - doubt they'd stalk
[08:29] <Hobbsee> besides, i'm unfindable
[08:29] <ajmitch__> heh
[08:29] <Hobbsee> hehe
[08:29] <Hobbsee> well, mostly
[08:29] <Hobbsee> :P
[08:30] <Kyral> Screw it I'm going to bed
[08:30] <Hobbsee> well, when you visit up here, you can have a location, then i'll meet you.
[08:30] <Hobbsee> night Kyral...
[08:30] <ajmitch__> Hobbsee: most likely the airport, knowing me :)
[08:30] <ajmitch__> night Kyral
[08:30] <Hobbsee> ack...
[08:30] <ajmitch__> Hobbsee: it turns out that it'll probably be cheapest for me to fly to melbourne via sydney
[08:30] <Hobbsee> ah ok, yep
[08:30] <ajmitch__> yeah
[08:31] <Hobbsee> true
[08:31] <ajmitch__> since the train does stop right at the international & domestic terminals, iirc
[08:32] <Hobbsee> that is true
[08:33] <ajmitch__> though you'll probably get your key signed before then :)
[08:33] <Hobbsee> possibly...
[08:34] <StevenK> Hobbsee: I'll sign your key if you like.
[08:34] <Hobbsee> StevenK: oh goody, when?
[08:34] <StevenK> Hobbsee: Whenever we meet up for lunch or something
[08:38] <StevenK> Whee, Debian has built 91% of the amd64 archive.
[08:39] <ajmitch__> not bad
[08:39] <ajmitch__> it should be mostly usable now
[08:40] <StevenK> I'm waiting for the magical 95% mark before I build a sid-amd64 chroot.
[08:41] <ajmitch__> we just need bddebian to do hurd-amd64
[08:41] <StevenK> Ugh, hurd
[09:44] <Lathiat> anyone knwo any kernel patches to hdie user processes from each other?
[09:44] <Lathiat> no grsec for 2.6.15/16 :(
[09:45] <kelmo> i hear sony have done that before
[09:45] <Lathiat> haha
[09:45] <Lathiat> nahlike, so you can only see your own processes
[09:45] <Lathiat> and root can see all
[09:46] <crimsun> the /proc patch originally from openwall?
[09:46] <crimsun> SD/openwall
[12:58] <freeflying> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2232 --< looking for review
[01:12] <Toadstool> hi here
[02:56] <TomaszD> I'm probably the hundreth person to ask, but why isn't, for example, Wine 0.9.11 being UVF-exceptioned? It might do more good than harm to upload a newer version. I know you guys focus on bugfixing now, but still. Are there no UVF exceptions given in this period?
[03:23] <bmonty> TomaszD: it may be that nobody has had time to write up the exception
[03:25] <enyc> Hrrrm.... ? where are UVF-exception requests made/listed ?
[03:25] <bmonty> enyc: you create a new bug in malone with info on the new package, see https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2006-February/000545.html
[03:26] <Toadstool> enyc: https://launchpad.net/people/motu-uvf/+assignedbugs for the list
[03:31] <enyc> bmonty: thatnks ;-)
[03:31] <enyc> Toadstool: thanks ;-)
[03:32] <enyc> evidently the bug I filed whichi generated a reply sayintg they will request a UVF exception.... has not had the UVF requested yet ;-)
[03:49] <TomaszD> bmonty, I see that a mortal like me isn't really able to ask for an UVF exception, given that one needs to attach a "diffstat" and such. What can I do then, I'd really like to see a more up-to-date version of wine in Ubuntu's universe...
[03:49] <bmonty> TomaszD: do you know how to create debdiffs?
[03:50] <TomaszD> bmonty, if I knew what all this https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2006-February/000545.html means, then I wouldn't even ask about anything and went ahead to produce a correct uvf exception request :)
[03:50] <bmonty> TomaszD: does debian have the new version of wine packaged?
[03:51] <TomaszD> bmonty, will check.
[03:52] <Toadstool> nope, current debian version is 0.9.10-1
[03:52] <TomaszD> yeah
[03:52] <TomaszD> damn it
[03:52] <TomaszD> I have to go
[03:52] <TomaszD> bbl
[03:52] <bmonty> looks like our version of wine is from july
[03:52] <bmonty> hey bddebian
[03:53] <bddebian> Heya bmonty
[03:55] <bddebian> Are lamont's pages stil the place to look at the build logs?
[03:56] <bmonty> bddebian: its in launchpad now
[03:57] <bmonty> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu
[03:57] <bddebian> I'm already there.  Now what? :-)
[03:57] <bmonty> type the name of the source package
[03:57] <bddebian> Oh View Builds maybe? :-)
[03:58] <bmonty> that too
[03:58] <bmonty> there are several ways to get to the build logs for a package
[03:58] <bmonty> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+source/<source package name>
[03:59] <bddebian> Hmm, I think lamont's pages may actually have been more concise :-)
[03:59] <bmonty> bddebian: I agree
[04:00] <bddebian> You what would be awesome would be to have it e-mail the uploader back with the results for each arc :-)
[04:00] <bddebian> Err arch even
[04:03] <bmonty> bddebian: you could open a wishlist bug against malone for that...I'd add a +1 for it :)
[04:03] <bmonty> s/malone/launchpad
[04:04] <bddebian> :-)
[04:08] <bmonty> hmm...I think that it would be better to not ask for a UVF for wine and then use backports for new versions
[04:08] <bmonty> they release a new version almost every week it seems
[04:09] <bddebian> Gotta keep up with the Windows bugs ya know :-)
[04:10] <bmonty> :)
[04:14] <bddebian> Hmm look at more bugs or play Morrowind....
[04:14] <spacey> please don't use 0.9.10
[04:14] <spacey> it has some regressions
[04:14] <spacey> i'm more happy with 0.9.9
[04:14] <spacey> :)
[04:15] <spacey> 0.9.11 is already out btw
[04:17] <bddebian> bmonty: How are you using dolson's patches? (REVU)?
[04:19] <bddebian> Or do you grab the .dsc and such and build that way?
[04:22] <bmonty> bddebian: I usually grab the dapper packages and apply his patches to them
[04:22] <bmonty> a LOT of the patches in malone require you to figure out what they did and apply them manually
[04:23] <bddebian> bmonty: Ah, OK
[04:47] <bddebian> WTF, I upload a bunch of stuff and close bugs and my karma goes down? :'-(
[04:52] <bddebian> Heya Yagisan
[04:53] <bddebian> If these bugs are tagged as In Progress, does that mean someone is actually working on them?
[04:53] <Yagisan> bddebian: yes
[04:53] <Yagisan> bddebian: I'm having a shit weekend :(
[04:54] <bddebian> :-(
[04:54] <freeflying> anyone tell me how to write manpage
[04:54] <bddebian> freeflying: Try help2man first, it makes it much easier :-)
[04:54] <Yagisan> bddebian: my dvd burner has now stopped too
[04:54] <bddebian> Who is Jonathan Patrick?
[04:54] <bddebian> Yagisan: d00d :-(
[04:54] <Yagisan> freeflying: I did mine in xml
[04:55] <freeflying> Yagisan: I'm cofused which will be the easiest :)
[04:55] <Yagisan> freeflying: you'll need to look up deng on revu though. My system was fubared upgrading to dapper, so I don't have a handy link
[04:55] <Yagisan> bddebian: yeah, "only" 150GB more to go
[04:55] <freeflying> Yagisan: thx
[04:56] <freeflying> bddebian: thx
[04:57] <bddebian> NP
[04:59] <Yagisan> bddebian: have a dvd-burner ?
[05:00] <bmonty> Yagisan: what are you using to burn dvds?
[05:01] <Yagisan> k3b
[05:01] <bmonty> which is a frontend for growisofs, yes?
[05:06] <bmonty> anyone know what package generates the update applet in the notification area?
[05:07] <Yagisan> bmonty: probably. the physical burner itself is buggered though
[05:08] <Yagisan> bmonty: syslog is full of errors from it. and not reading anything is a dead give away
[05:11] <Yagisan> hmm. lite-on dvd burners - any good ?
[05:12] <pef> Yagisan: depends on what you mean by "good" :)
[05:13] <freeflying> I wonder if I must provide manpage for a library package
[05:13] <Yagisan> pef: no overheating issues, can read the disks they burn, can read disks burned in other machines, don't fill syslog with errors trying to read pressed cd's and dvds that work in other units fine
[05:14] <pef> Yagisan: do you care about cdrws burn quality ?
[05:16] <Yagisan> pef: I tend to use rewritables a lot, but to a certain extent yes.
[05:16] <pef> Yagisan: dvd burners tends to write bad quality cdrws :/
[05:17] <pef> Yagisan: you should check http://www.cdfreaks.com/, very good tests about burners
[05:17] <Yagisan> pef: I have a cdrw drive still. but yes, I noticed that too
[05:19] <bmonty> Yagisan: I have a lite-on
[05:19] <Yagisan> pef: thanks for link. checking now
[05:19] <bmonty> you can get them real cheap on newegg.com
[05:19] <Yagisan> bmonty: happy with it ?
[05:20] <bmonty> Yagisan: so far...I've used lite-on burners for years and never had a problem
[05:20] <Yagisan> bmonty: I'm in Aus, so I walk to my wholesalers
[05:20] <Yagisan> they are like 4km away. easy walk
[05:20] <bmonty> Yagisan: should be even cheaper for you then...less distance to ship it
[05:20] <Yagisan> bmonty: I wish that were true, but its not. after conversion it's about the same price
[05:21] <bmonty> you can get a lite-on DVD burner for <$40 US
[05:21] <bmonty> with shipping
[05:21] <Yagisan> bmonty: less quantity here. 20M in AUs, and that's what NYC ?
[05:22] <bmonty> heh, yeah maybe
[05:23] <Yagisan> bmonty: I can get a lite-on for about $58 AU.
[05:23] <bmonty> the only issue I have had is that dvdrecord refuses to work with the drive....growisofs works just fine though
[05:23] <bmonty> Yagisan: any idea what the conversion is?
[05:26] <Yagisan> bmonty: about $43-44 US
[05:26] <bmonty> Yagisan: like you said...the same price
[05:27] <Yagisan> bmonty: only place I found cheaper was Tokyo, but I need a burner now, so I'm not going to wait for shipping
[05:50] <paddy> hi
[06:12] <alon> hello world\
[06:39] <bddebian> Hmm, I haven't gotten an accept or reject message for xfonts-marumoji
[06:40] <ogra> bddebian, NEW ?
[06:40] <bddebian> ogra: No
[06:40] <bddebian> Malone #34217
[06:40] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 34217 in firestarter "Initscript does not use lsb-base functions" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/34217
[06:40] <bddebian> Whoops wrong one
[06:41] <ogra> :)
[06:42] <bddebian> Shit, now I can't find the bug #
[06:43] <ogra> no need for that :) wont solve LP issues if there are any ;)
[08:06] <wasabi> If anybody is curious: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GAptI   Just trying to generate interest/comments/etc.
[08:10] <nictuku> interesting
[08:11] <nictuku> will it install dependencies too?
[08:11] <ogra> how does that differ from gdebi ?
[08:15] <wasabi> ogra: jump to ThirdPartyApt
[08:15] <ogra> just read it, sorry for the unqualified question :)
[08:16] <wasabi> np.
[08:18] <wasabi> Just put a big [08:21] <nictuku> will dapper version still be 6.04?
[08:26] <truz24> no, 6.6
[08:26] <truz24> or maybe 6.06
[08:27] <wasabi> ogra: any furthur thoughts? :)
[10:27] <lifeless> moin moin
[10:40] <phanatic> hi people


[00:05] <michagogo> So what’s next? The Abnormal Abalone?
[00:05] <michagogo> (I guess there are a lot of “ab” adjectives, actually.
[00:05] <michagogo> )
[11:00] <juliank> slangasek: I just want to note again (I just sent a comment to the bug) that SuggestsImportant=true was not my idea, I just present the arguments for it. The compromise I just posted seems reasonable, but I'm not strongly opposed to setting it to false (DonKult may be), I just want everyone to have a complete view of the problem.
[11:00] <mardy> acheronuk: hi! GNOME certainly does not depend on signon-ui, but Unity should, if you want to have the Online Accounts panel in it
[11:01] <mardy> acheronuk: Unity8 does not require it, though
[11:03] <juliank> Oh, I see DonKult also replied.
[11:05] <juliank> Currently, you could basically run autoremove in a cron job and be safe.
[11:05] <juliank> With SuggestsImportant=false, that's not really the case :D
[11:29] <acheronuk> mardy: well, it's reverse depends seem to show nothing for unity 7
[11:29] <mardy> acheronuk: it's required by unity-control-center-signon, IIRC
[11:30] <acheronuk> mardy: anyway, at the moment it's completely broken for KDE, who are the only ones who will continue to use it
[11:30] <mardy> acheronuk: do you have links to any bugs?
[11:31] <acheronuk> mardy: https://gitlab.com/accounts-sso/signon-ui/issues/1
[11:32] <acheronuk> mardy: unity-control-center-signon was a removed in artful
[11:34] <acheronuk> mardy: trailing comments on bug #1070873
[11:35] <acheronuk> mardy: plus one or 2 others that are marked private at the moment, like #1723230
[11:37] <mardy> acheronuk: well, AFAIK gmail's chat has long been broken with XMPP, it has very little to do with signon-ui
[11:39] <acheronuk> mardy: well, at the moment only KDE used it. and it crashes. only solution I have is to re-upload 0.17+17.10.20170606-0ubuntu1
[11:40] <acheronuk> 0.17+17.10.20160406-0ubuntu1 I mean
[11:41] <acheronuk> mardy: I will make a new bug if required
[11:45] <acheronuk> mardy: will be getting kio-gdrive into 18.04 which requires a working version of signon-ui that doesn't crash when invoked by KDE's systemsettings, so need to fix this one way or another
[11:45] <mardy> acheronuk: let me comment on https://gitlab.com/accounts-sso/signon-ui/issues/1, I'm afraid I know what the problem is
[11:45] <acheronuk> anyway, will have to come back to this. Sunday lunch calls
[11:45] <acheronuk> mardy: ok
[12:00] <mardy> acheronuk:
[12:01] <mardy> acheronuk: ops, I meant to say: if I provide you with a signon-ui branch, will you be able to test it in KDE?
[12:07] <acheronuk> mardy: yep. really have to go now. will be around all the coming week
[16:49] <KeepItInside> !history launchpad test
[16:50] <KeepItInside> LP: #1714989
[16:50] <KeepItInside> sorry on my HTC desire :(
[16:56] <KeepItInside> ikonia hows xubuntu aardvark ?
[20:57] <slangasek> juliank: yeah; considering our stock Ubuntu package management stack does *not* call autoremove at any point except between release upgrades, and aptitude cli has a pathological resolver, I stand by my position here
[20:58] <slangasek> juliank: it's clear that we shouldn't change this setting in SRU, but we should get it fixed for 18.04 so that we can get everyone cleaned up on the next upgrade
[20:59] <juliank> slangasek: What about the compromise I proposed?
[21:01] <juliank> It would protect the careless users, and it also gives the careful users the control they want
[21:05] <juliank> Of course, apt autoremove could also ask: Do you also want to remove the packages still Suggested? or something. Then you have two bool prompts
[21:05] <juliank> kind of odd
[21:09] <slangasek> juliank: what I care about is what the Ubuntu system does by default; if this has to be implemented upstream by adding yet another knob to apt because no one wants to change the behavior of the existing interfaces, then that's acceptable, I just think it's a waste of effort
[21:12] <juliank> slangasek: I'd say: Removing packages with reverse suggests on a release upgrade should require confirmation with each package being listed with its reverse suggests. But I think people are already used to release upgrades breaking their system, so it's not that much of an issue there as it is with autoremove.
[21:13] <slangasek> I have a seriously hard time with any of this being termed "breaking the system"
[21:14] <slangasek> it's expected that the default behavior is different after a release upgrade and that the user might have to make adjustments
[21:14] <juliank> slangasek: It's just an overstatement :D
[21:14] <juliank> More accurate would be: Removing functionality they might be relying on that has been deprecated
[21:15] <slangasek> I also think that it would be appropriate to change the default behavior of apt autoremove in a new release, while definitely not SRUing it backwards
[21:15] <slangasek> because then you have gone through a release upgrade and dealt with the autoremoval once
[21:15] <slangasek> and either manually re-added those removed packages or not
[21:16] <slangasek> and once upgraded, package dependencies aren't going to change, so you're not going to have new autoremovals suggested as a result of changed deps within the release
[21:16] <slangasek> only as a result of you specifically removing something and then wanting to clean up
[21:17] <juliank> Oh, it would be appropriate. But I'd rather have two stages of autoremovals for the apt(-get) usage I think. The release upgrading code is free to run with suggestsimportant set to false
[21:19] <juliank> Imagine if we could reach a point where we can just do autoremove in unattended-upgrades. that's the goal, but we're not there yet.
[21:27] <slangasek> juliank: well, as the recent discussion on the other bug wrt auto-marking of metapackage deps, we seem to have moved quite far away from it being safe to run autoremove as part of unattended upgrades :/
[21:31] <juliank> slangasek: Not sure what you're referring to. The only thing I remember is that the metapackage handling improved so "remove metapackage" also keeps the dependencies auto, but if the metapackage is removed implicitly, then they're not. And that's really the best of both worlds.
[21:31] <juliank> So, yes, if you do apt remove ubuntu-desktop and then autoremove, ubuntu-desktop is completely gone.
[21:31] <juliank> But you just asked apt to remove ubuntu-desktop so ...
[21:36] <slangasek> juliank: well, I don't think it's the best of both worlds that you could 'apt remove ubuntu-desktop' and have it keep running, until the next time unattended upgrades runs :)
[21:36] <juliank> slangasek: So, let's automatically do autoremovals, like aptitude?
[21:37] <slangasek> maybe
[21:37] <slangasek> not sure that would make it SRUable still; and we do need to fix behavior in stable releases wrt lack of autoremoval of kernel packages
[21:38] <juliank> Well, autoremove removes kernel packages.
[21:39] <juliank> But unattended-upgrade has its own handling I think
[21:41] <juliank> slangasek: apt's next release cycle is starting *now*, BTW. Adds seccomp() sandboxing to methods, so I'd expect some breakage outside amd64.
[21:42] <juliank> I think the compressed index change has to move to 18.10, there's a security issue it would open up (or a regression in file:/ repositories not accessible by _apt)
[21:46] <slangasek> seccomp itself is well supported on !amd64, provided you don't wrongly encode an x86-specific list of syscalls :)
[21:48] <juliank> slangasek: I basically took a list of all syscalls on amd64, and a list of all syscalls that differ between architectures, and combined that.
[21:48] <juliank> libseccomp has some magic in there, so I hope it works out fine
[21:49] <juliank> And you can turn it off or allow or trap additional syscalls via config options :D
[21:49] <juliank> so, you could do apt -o APT::Sandbox::Secomp::Trap::=read and the read syscall causes SIGSYS :D
[21:53] <juliank> So for example, I have whitelisted both fchown and fchown32


[22:23] <lderan> ochosi & bluesabre i'll be about all day tomorrow & monday. so will poke you then to see what I can do to help if you're okay with that :)
[22:29] <knome> lderan, they usually hate when somebody tries to help them
[22:30] <lderan> curses
[22:31] <lderan> how about mildly inconvenient? :P
[22:31] <knome> mildy is an underestimation
[22:34] <lderan> oh dear
[22:36] <knome> ;)


 yown: and quite frankly I've never heard a good update story, all end in a reinstall, so you should likely stick with something for a good while
[05:29] <bazhang> jhc
[05:30] <bazhang> I have had upgrades that went from version 7 something to 11.04 (original 7.10 cd in sources.list, commented out)
[05:37] <IdleOne> clean installs are not a bad idea if you have a separate /home, but he is being a little too general there
[05:51] <bazhang> true
[05:52] <bazhang> though the newest installer I have seen lets you set aside /home if you wish
[05:52] <IdleOne> yup, for the past few releases at least
[05:52] <IdleOne> 3-4 releases
[14:51] <Dickstar> BUCK BUCK
[14:51] <Dickstar> WHY DID THE FLOOD BOT BAN ME MOTHER YAAR?
[14:51] <Dickstar> WHATS COMMON IN A NIGGER AND A UNIVERSE?? BOTH HAS BLACK HOLE
[14:51] <Dickstar> thats the question i asked
[14:52] <k1l> !guidelines | Dickstar
[14:52] <Dickstar> FUCK BITCH NIGGER
[14:52] <Dickstar> FLOODBOT SUCK MY DICK
[14:52] <k1l> your behaviour is not appropriate. read the guidelines and the CodeofConduct fi you want to talk about your ban
[14:53] <Dickstar> MOTHER FUCK UNBAN ME NOW NUGGAZZ
[14:53] <Tm_T> no point dragging it
[21:43] <Catalystic> wow so many ops
[21:44] <IRC-Cop> yes.
[21:44] <IdleOne> you can both leave
[21:45] <IdleOne> or I can ban you
[21:45] <IdleOne> whichever you prefer
[21:45] <IRC-Cop> wtf i just got banned from #ubuntu-women
[21:45] <IRC-Cop> i didnt do anything wrong
[21:45] <IRC-Cop> the op IdleOne was hostile the moment i joined that channel
[21:45] <IRC-Cop> telling me "to leave" the channel
[21:45] <IdleOne> I am still hostile towards the both of you in here
[21:45] <IRC-Cop> Who else is here?
[21:45] <IRC-Cop> ALanBell ikonia Pici
[21:46] <Catalystic> IdleOne:  loves so much being idle that he keeps banning people so he can go back being idle
[21:46] <IRC-Cop> hahaha
[21:46] <IRC-Cop> sersiouly who made that guy an op?
[21:46] <AlanBell> hmm, evening all
[21:46] <IRC-Cop> hi
[21:46] <IRC-Cop> can you pls read my lines above ? thnx
[21:47] <AlanBell> so yeah, I am aware of what was said in here, #freenode and #ubuntu-women and #ubuntu-women project
[21:47] <IRC-Cop> i didnt say anything in freenode channel
[21:47] <Catalystic> IRC-Cop: is my lawyer
[21:48] <IRC-Cop>  :/
[21:48] <AlanBell> I think those were all the channels you were talking in, anyhow, what is the issue we can help you with this evening?
[21:49] <IRC-Cop> no reason toget ban
[21:50] <Catalystic> i know women hate men listing yo theyr gossip and all but...
[21:51] <AlanBell> s/listing yo theyr/listening to their/ I assume
[21:52] <AlanBell> so, you did get banned, however we have lots of other lovely channels in which you can get support and advice for your Ubuntu system
[21:53] <IRC-Cop> i want to know the reason behind the ban
[21:54] <IRC-Cop> hello?
[21:57] <AlanBell> you did not appear to be making a constructive contribution to the channel, I am kinda surprised you didn't notice that yourself
[21:58] <Catalystic> constructive contributions can be so subjective
[21:59] <IRC-Cop> i was greeted in a hostile manner
[21:59] <AlanBell> they can indeed, and the judement is that of the team channel operators
[21:59] <Catalystic> lets say i meet a wonderfull women there i and she could give birth to the next richar stalman
[21:59] <Catalystic> humm ok nvm that
[22:00] <IRC-Cop>  wanted to chat to some females about ubunti, uniti or gnome classic etc
[22:00] <Catalystic> yes me to i wanted to talk about floral thems
[22:01] <Catalystic> maybe rhey arent familiar with lili usb installer
[22:02] <AlanBell> lovely, great topics of conversation for #ubuntu-offtopic, you can explain your floral theme plans there
[22:02] <IRC-Cop> i want to chat to females
[22:02] <IRC-Cop> and ubuntu-women is the place imo
[22:02] <AlanBell> you are banned from #ubuntu-women, that ban stands, feel free to return in a week or so to this channel and I am happy to discuss it again
[22:02] <AlanBell> night all o/
[22:02] <IRC-Cop> why was i banned?
[22:03] <IRC-Cop> alanbell
[22:03] <Catalystic> IRC-Cop: with any luck you would be chating with a gay men
[22:03] <IRC-Cop> ..
[22:03] <IRC-Cop> seems like that
[22:03] <IRC-Cop> or really fat bitches.


[11:43] <tomreyn> hi, is anyone awake there? we got this "notsoever" person in #ubuntu who is spamming for 2 hours now.
[12:01] <RikMills> same person who spammed #kubuntu the other day. sadly I can't OP in #ubuntu
[12:39] <RikMills> popey: thanks!
[12:39] <popey> np
[12:41] <tomreyn> ty p0pey, a pity no one with the relevant permissions was around for so long.
[14:32] <hggdh> @login
[14:32] <hggdh> @btlogin
[15:41] <pragmaticenigma> Good day ops... Could someone keep an eye on doug16k in #ubuntu... they appear to be on the attach/troll front while, and not providing any useful help to those in need at the moment.
[18:53] <jussi> Ive no idea how to deal with the external (telegram) ones
[18:56] <dax> i just don't
[18:57] <dax> i have #kubuntu +o so i'm assuming i could get admin on the telegram group if i cared enough, but i really don't care enough :s
[18:57] <dax> plus then i'd be using telegram more, and i'm trying to use it less instead
[19:21] <hggdh> eventually we will have to. Perhaps.
[19:28] <dax> another option would be changing bridging to go via the kde matrix server (i.e. telegram <-> kde.org matrix <-> irc), but that's way above my pay grade and i'm not sure how it looks on the telegram side
[19:28] <dax> but the upside there would be that individual telegram users are bannable on IRC
[19:29] <dax> disclaimer: i in general am quite biased about using matrix for anything, but figured i should throw the option out there
[19:31] <hggdh> dax: biased for, or against?
[19:32] <dax> against
[19:32] <hggdh> ack. Nevertheless, if we go one way, it would be nice to do the same for all.