[05:33] <Kilos> morning geeks
[05:55] <Kilos> hi Tonberry
[05:56] <Kilos> hi Squirm
[05:56] <Squirm> hello
[06:03] <mazal> Môre almal , morning all
[06:03] <Kilos> dag mazal
[06:03] <mazal> Gaanit oom Kilos ?
[06:04] <Kilos> goed dankie en daar?
[06:04] <Kilos> hi SmilyBorg
[06:04] <mazal> Raasie baie nie , maar net besig :P
[06:04] <SmilyBorg> Morning :-)
[06:04] <mazal> Morning SmilyBorg
[06:04] <Kilos> :-)>
[06:04] <Kilos> hard work making smiley things
[06:08] <mazal> I have a question re /var/cache/apt/archives
[06:08] <mazal> Scenario:
[06:08] <Kilos> what about them
[06:08] <mazal> Fully updated 12.04 with loads of 3rd party apps installed
[06:08] <Kilos> ok
[06:08] <mazal> All .debs in that folder backed up
[06:08] <mazal> Now
[06:09] <mazal> If I format and install a 12.10 pc
[06:09] <mazal> Copy that debs to that location
[06:09] <mazal> And run all my install commands
[06:09] <mazal> Will it install everything from that cache ?
[06:09] <Kilos> no good. packs are release related if im not mistaken
[06:09] <mazal> The 12.10 pc is not on internet
[06:10] <Kilos> oh
[06:10] <Kilos> you mean the 12.10 archives
[06:10] <mazal> I can't see any release info in the packages
[06:10] <Kilos> you need to get the first apt-get-update
[06:10] <mazal> I thought it might work
[06:10] <Kilos> that also looks whats in archives to see what you got
[06:11] <mazal> I think I need to try this
[06:11] <Kilos> you can use a cell to connect just for the first update
[06:12] <mazal> You see , because off all the time and data it takes for a new build I only use LTS and this keeps me away from always using the latest version
[06:12] <mazal> I am trying to get past this issue with Ubuntu
[06:12] <Kilos> every release has its own packages
[06:12] <mazal> I have way over 1gig of apt-get's to do on a new install
[06:12] <mazal> And it takes too long and too much data
[06:13] <Kilos> yip i know the feeling
[06:13] <mazal> So you think it won't work Kilos ?
[06:13] <Kilos> if your archives are for 12.04 they wont work on 12.10
[06:13] <mazal> :-(
[06:13]  * Kilos cries as well
[06:15] <mazal> But won't the 3rd party apps at least work ?
[06:15] <Kilos> even synaptic and software centre and update manager need the apt-get update or a reload from themselves to see whats available and whats in archives
[06:15] <mazal> For example , things like Thunderbird , Firefox , Handbrake etc. is the same version in 12.04 and 12.10 ?
[06:16] <superfly> morning people
[06:16] <Kilos> hi superfly am i right here?
[06:16] <superfly> Kilos: yes, you are.
[06:17] <Kilos> mazal, what mobile service are you using?
[06:18] <Kilos> 8ta has a 2gB+1gB bundle for R149 and only deduct R146
[06:18] <mazal> I am om ADSL Kilos , but only 384k
[06:18] <Kilos> 1gB is after 23.00
[06:19] <mazal> I literaly takes me up to 3 nights just for a install
[06:19] <Kilos> wow
[06:19] <mazal> I'm trying to get past the time factor
[06:19] <mazal> Yeah , just the multimedia is 400mb , and 384k that takes hours
[06:20] <mazal> Then I only did multimedia support and haven't even started with other apps I use
[06:20] <superfly> mazal: hasn't yours been upgraded to 1Mbps yet? I though Telkom was done with those upgrades
[06:20] <Kilos> i never get over 400kB/s but install from scratch and it only takes a few hours to get upgraded
[06:20] <mazal> Nope , we still on 384k , they are lying
[06:21] <mazal> as usual
[06:21] <sakhi> Morning
[06:21] <Kilos> hi sakhi
[06:21] <Kilos> mazal, complain to their CEO
[06:22] <Kilos> they fixed my 8ta in 3 days if i member right
[06:22] <mazal> I wonder if there is an email adres or something that I can send mail and enquire
[06:22] <Kilos> yes i found one somewhere
[06:23] <mazal> Back when I was on 4mb I also did a machine in a few hours. But now , oi
[06:23] <Kilos> their ceo is also on twitter
[06:24] <Kilos> http://my.8ta.com/mobile-web/
[06:24] <mazal> 8ta not an option for me , no signal
[06:24] <mazal> Same with 3g
[06:24] <Kilos> eish
[06:25] <Kilos> http://www.ceoemail.com/african-companies.php
[06:25] <mazal> I tested a friends 8ta at my house and it was so slow that it couldn't even open speedtest to test LOL
[06:25] <Kilos> look in there for telkoms ceo mail addy
[06:25] <mazal> Ta Kilos
[06:25] <Kilos> yw
[06:25] <Kilos> hi psydroid
[06:26] <Kilos> http://www.telkom.co.za/about_us/mediacentre/press_release/articles/2011/article_1036.html
[06:27] <Kilos> http://www.telkom.co.za/emailcontact/home.htm
[06:27] <psydroid> hi Kilos
[06:27] <Kilos> hopefully one of them has his addy
[06:28] <Kilos> oh mazal on 8ta you actually have to fone them and they activate your sim card to do 3g
[06:29] <Kilos> sims not active by default
[06:29] <mazal> M friends 8ta was fully functional Kilos
[06:29] <mazal> At his house it runs fast , so the problem is signal at my place
[06:29] <Kilos> eish
[06:30] <mazal> Ek bly in 'n klein plekkie jong :P
[06:30] <Kilos> then you have 2 options with them. one is to ask for them to upgrade the closest tower or build another one closer
[06:30] <mazal> Cullinan
[06:30] <Kilos> they are actually very helpful
[06:31] <Kilos> yeah but cullinan must see a tower if there are any on the hills surrounding pta
[06:34] <Kilos> yo kodez
[06:36] <kodez> uncle Kilos
[06:37] <mazal> I got a page that you can send a "product enquiry"
[06:37] <mazal> So I send an enquiry there. Will see what they reply. In my experience Telkom doesn't have good customer service at all.  Rock up with your mugs with the correct amount of sugar added already
[09:41] <Banlam> sugar, pfft
[09:42] <inetpro> good mornings everyone and Kilos
[09:43] <Kilos> you allergic to sugar Banlam ?
[09:43] <Banlam> lol no
[09:43] <Banlam> i like sugar
[09:43] <Banlam> just not in my coffee
[09:44] <Kilos> oh my bitter coffee sucks
[09:44] <Kilos> i use double the sugar in coffee i use in tea
[09:45] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for Kilos!
[09:45] <Kilos> Maaz, ty
[09:45] <Maaz> You are welcome Kilos
[09:45] <Kilos> Maaz, with sugar
[09:45] <Maaz> Help yourself outa the sugar pot
[09:45] <Kilos> see Banlam he doesnt put sugar in
[09:45] <Banlam> i know :) he said we must come with the correct amount of sugar
[09:46] <Banlam> so i said "pfft sugar"
[09:46] <Kilos> thats in tea man
[09:46] <Kilos> oh my
[09:46] <Kilos> sorry i just read
[09:46] <Banlam> :)
[09:47] <Kilos> ai old age
[09:48] <Kilos> or just plain stupidity could also be the prob
[09:49] <charlvn> good morning
[09:49] <charlvn> Maaz: coffee on
[09:49]  * Maaz starts grinding coffee
[09:50] <charlvn> i can't believe this is actually in the wiktionary: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/googlewhore
[09:50] <Kilos> lo charlvn
[09:50] <charlvn> hi Kilos
[09:51] <Kilos> haha should have googlepimp as well
[09:51] <Kilos> those that always tell me google is my friend
[09:53] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for charlvn!
[09:59] <charlvn> Maaz: thanks
[09:59] <Maaz> charlvn: No problem
[10:14] <mazal> Lo charlvn
[10:22] <mazal> Maaz: Start frying steak
[10:22] <Maaz> mazal: What?
[10:22] <mazal> Maaz: Put on chips
[10:22] <Maaz> mazal: Sorry...
[10:22] <mazal> oi
[10:38] <charlvn> hi mazal
[11:08] <zeref> hmmm
[11:21] <zeref> anybody's ubuntu just log off without any error messages?
[11:22] <SmilyBorg> it's happened to me once or twice in the past. never found the cause though
[11:35] <zeref> :-(
[11:35] <zeref> I used to get gnome-seesion errors about memory unavaliable
[11:35] <Kilos> lol i like to believe thats when a virus or hacker tried to get in
[11:35] <zeref> but now nothing
[11:36] <Kilos> so it cuts them off
[11:36] <zeref> have to restart start to computer a couple of time before it's stable
[11:36] <zeref> Kilos: lol
[11:36] <Kilos> hehe
[11:36] <SmilyBorg> that sounds more like a hardware issue to me
[11:36] <Kilos> i had it often when using msn on pidgin
[11:37] <zeref> SmilyBorg: I was thinking the same, but When I upgraded my hardware still got the same
[11:37] <SmilyBorg> ouch
[11:38] <SmilyBorg> when you say upgrade. what hardware was changed?
[11:38] <zeref> mother and graphics
[11:39] <SmilyBorg> so you used your old ram?
[11:39] <zeref> oh and ram was changed to DDR3
[11:40] <SmilyBorg> k
[11:40] <SmilyBorg> odd that
[11:40] <zeref> got a good deal 4GB DDR3 for R200 :)
[11:41] <SmilyBorg> maybe bad power? minor power fluctuations can cause weird issues. Do you have a UPS?
[11:41] <Kilos> yeah ddr3 seems the way to go
[11:41] <Kilos> only mb and cpu cost
[11:41] <zeref> SmilyBorg: nope
[11:42] <SmilyBorg> looking forward to getting my new laptop on Friday. will just need to max out the ram with an extra 4GB dimm
[11:42] <SmilyBorg> ram is so cheep these days
[11:42] <zeref> one thing i did notice is that when i boot into windows, I get nvidia kernel error, with old and new GPU
[11:42] <zeref> sooo.....
[11:43] <SmilyBorg> hmm. tried a fresh install since upgrade?
[11:43] <zeref> yep
[11:43] <zeref> do you thinnk that another distro make a diff?
[11:43] <zeref> *difference
[11:44] <zeref> oh, still on 12.04 btw
[11:45] <SmilyBorg> no. shouldn't make a difference. if you are seeing issues in windows and linux, it really points to hardware in my mind
[11:46] <Kilos> zeref, maybe try upgrade the nvidia drivers on both systems
[11:46] <tonberry352_> sounds like xorg crashing
[11:47] <zeref> Kilos: for nvidia i use current
[11:47] <zeref> dont like the current-latest
[11:47] <Kilos> current didnt work here on 12.04
[11:48] <zeref> tonberry352_: I suspected that, but when no errors are shown
[11:48] <Kilos> had to use proprietry driver
[11:48] <zeref> kind of hard to pinpoint
[11:48] <zeref> Kilos: nvidia drivers are propriety
[11:49] <Kilos> dont you see aditional drivers in dash
[11:49] <Kilos> it shows what you need to do
[11:49] <zeref> yebo oom :)
[11:49] <Kilos> hehe
[11:51] <zeref> just to check, error messages can be found in dmesg, syslog, and xsessions?
[11:52] <zeref> seems stable now.....
[12:42] <Symmetria> whoa, rodriguez is coming back to south africa
[12:46] <mazal> Bye everyone
[12:46] <mazal> God bless
[12:46] <Kilos> cheers amz
[12:46] <Kilos> you too
[12:46] <Kilos> ty
[12:57] <charlvn> mtnbusiness - that is the former verizon which was the former uunet right?
[13:28] <Squirm> our internet is so slow today
[13:28] <Squirm> :/
[13:29] <SmilyBorg> charlvn: yeah, that sounds about right if memory serves me correctly
[13:43] <charlvn> Squirm: what's up?
[13:43] <charlvn> SmilyBorg: a long time ago i used to work for one of the service agents of mweb, back when they used the uunet backbone, the network was extremely stable
[13:43] <charlvn> then they decided to move to IS and it pretty-much went down the drain :(
[13:44] <charlvn> i think they decided to just build their own network after that
[13:44] <SmilyBorg> sounds familiar
[13:45] <charlvn> later in time i worked as a consultant for a different company and the manager of the company used to do consulting work for IS
[13:45] <charlvn> he told me that IS had a culture of pushing their hardware and their network to the absolute limits
[13:45] <charlvn> i never had much involvement with IS myself (at least not directly) but he wanted to avoid IS at all costs
[13:46] <charlvn> we ended up using hetzner because they also used the verizon backbone (at the time)
[13:47] <inetpro> eish!
[13:47] <charlvn> there was one particular verizon router though, i think it was somewhere in johannesburg, and that one often introduced huge latency, it showed up clearly on traceroutes
[13:47] <charlvn> not sure if it was a faulty router or network congestion problems but it took them months to sort out, and it was a core router
[13:48]  * inetpro struggling today with users who think it should be normal to send messages with 600+ addresses in the TO field
[13:49] <SmilyBorg> eish. I hate that
[13:50] <inetpro> and when the PC gives a memory error when saving the message for record purposes it's the end of the world
[13:50] <charlvn> inetpro: i have seen people do this quite often internally in companies but when the mail goes external (with all the addresses) it's quite ugly
[13:50] <charlvn> that's strange, it shouldn't cause a memory error, should it?
[13:50] <inetpro> well in Outlook it does
[13:50] <charlvn> ah interesting
[13:51] <inetpro> and I'm actually glad it does because somewhere this has to stop
[13:51] <inetpro> simply crazy!
[13:51] <charlvn> but exchange has mailing lists / groups of some kind that can be configured right?
[13:52] <charlvn> most companies have those
[13:53] <inetpro> but exchange groups is still not a mailing list type solution
[13:53] <charlvn> no that's true
[13:54] <inetpro> I say do it the proper way with a mailing list and allow users to subscribe and unsubscribe themselves
[13:55] <charlvn> well it depends on the use case... for company-wide mails, exchange groups are perfect, but if subscription is optional, then a mailing list is the way to go
[13:55] <inetpro> I think it depends on the number of users
[13:55] <inetpro> groups are fine for small numbers
[13:56] <inetpro> groups are also fine for internal only
[13:56] <charlvn> well, i've seen exchange groups with hundreds or even thousands of members perform perfectly fine
[13:56] <charlvn> but yeah it's meant for internal only, definitely
[13:57] <inetpro> maintaining a database of users manually is fraught with human error
[14:01] <charlvn> well, if you can, you definitely want to automate it
[14:08] <Squirm> damn tired today
[14:16] <Kilos> wb magespawn
[14:37] <magespawn> hey Kilos
[14:39] <Kilos> you ok magespawn ?
[14:39] <magespawn> just slightly busy, and shop assistant-less
[14:41] <magespawn> got to go again see you later
[14:46] <Kilos> ok be well
[15:05] <Kilos> Maaz, seen sflr
[15:05] <Maaz> Kilos: sflr was last seen 1 month, 17 days, 6 hours, 35 minutes and 8 seconds ago in #ubuntu-za on freenode [2012-09-14 01:30:09 PDT], and has been offline on freenode since 2012-09-14 01:41:39 PDT
[15:05] <Kilos> the sh1t
[15:05] <superfly> Kilos: haai, oom! Sies!
[15:05] <Kilos> skuus man superfly
[15:06] <Kilos> 1 1/2 months
[15:06] <Kilos> hope hes still alive
[15:06] <superfly> magespawn: you ever come right with that work query?
[15:13] <Kilos> hi nlsthzn
[15:14] <nlsthzn> hi uncle Kilos
[15:19] <nlsthzn> all well, cold better?
[15:19] <Kilos> yes ty was a bad one
[15:19] <Kilos> still a bit weak feels like
[16:01] <nlsthzn> well glad you are feeling better uncle Kilos
[16:02] <Kilos> ty nlsthzn
[16:02] <Kilos> hi Cantide
[16:08] <Cantide> hello '-'
[16:13]  * nlsthzn goes to play a game before bed... night
[16:31] <Kilos> wbb
[17:14] <smile> :)
[18:08] <smile> brb :p
[18:09] <KilosK> evening all
[18:11] <KilosK> hi smileE17
[18:11] <smileE17> you are in KDE ;)
[18:12] <KilosK> ya but now alert sound in xchat so gotta watch the screen
[18:12] <KilosK> hehe
[18:12] <KilosK> and i got it auto connection 3g
[18:24] <KilosK> nuvimob, hoe gaan dit
[18:24] <KilosK> jy is maar skaars ne
[18:25] <smileE17> :P
[18:25] <nuvimob> o/ hi oom
[18:25] <nuvimob> ja nee,  nou is ons sonder water ook
[18:25] <smileE17> I always hate 3G on my cellphone :p so i would really hate it on my main computer
[18:25] <smileE17> 3g is really too slow :p
[18:26] <nuvimob> wetter het my fiets gesteel om weg te kom met al die koper krane buitekant asook die koper pype
[18:26] <KilosK> eish nuvimob het jy al geskyf of nog selle plek
[18:26] <inetpro> nuvimob: sorry about your mongoose
[18:26] <inetpro> good evening
[18:26] <KilosK> lo inetpro
[18:27] <nuvimob> :-/ thanks inetpro
[18:27] <KilosK> eish nuvimob dis sleg
[18:27] <inetpro> nuvimob: did you report it yet?
[18:28] <nuvimob> so now we're without water, any water, because the geyser ran out too
[18:28] <inetpro> eish!
[18:28] <KilosK> eish
[18:28] <nuvimob> inetpro yeah, the police left now now
[18:28] <KilosK> hope geyser was switched off
[18:28] <inetpro> nuvimob: I know the feeling
[18:29] <nuvimob> geyser wasn't off oom kilos
[18:29] <inetpro> nuvimob: now please make sure they put a plastic meter in there, otherwise it won't be long until the next one is gone
[18:29] <KilosK> oh my then element will be blown too
[18:30] <nuvimob> no,  they didn't steal the meter,  as it is a plastic one already
[18:30] <inetpro> ahh
[18:30] <inetpro> unbelievable how desperate these thugs are behind copper
[18:31] <nuvimob> moere :-(
[18:31] <KilosK> sorry to hear ugly news like this nuvimob
[18:31] <nuvimob> oh well
[18:31] <inetpro> even at church they stole a very small piece of copper gas pipes
[18:33] <KilosK> ai
[18:35] <inetpro> luckily it didn't result in a big bang
[18:36] <KilosK> we need some big bangs to blow these thieves to kingdom come
[18:39]  * inetpro is poegaai
[18:39] <inetpro> today went way to quickly
[18:40] <KilosK> go have an early sleep
[18:40] <inetpro> good idea
[18:40] <inetpro> but way to early still
[18:40] <KilosK> lol
[18:54] <nuvimob> at least here is some wine left :P
[18:56] <KilosK> lol
[18:57] <KilosK> bath in it
[19:00] <nuvimob> Ongelukkig is daar nie só baie nie oom kilos
[19:06] <KilosK> ai
[19:08] <KilosK> inetpro, gaan slaap nou
[19:09] <inetpro> KilosK: hoekom?
[19:09] <KilosK> sodat jy more goed voel
[19:09] <KilosK> jy word oud nou
[19:12] <inetpro> lol
[19:13] <inetpro> KilosK: stadig maar seker is ek besig om weer asem te vang
[19:13] <inetpro> maar geen stress, ek sal vroeg slaap
[19:14] <KilosK> jy is amper by die ouderdom waar jy langs die bed n suurstof bottel aan hou
[19:14] <KilosK> ek is darem daar verby
[19:15] <KilosK> superfly, all good there?
[19:24] <KilosK> night all. i go crash now so pc can rest
[19:24] <KilosK> see you morrow
[19:24] <KilosK> nag nuvimob moed hou seun
[19:36] <smileE17> bye
[19:36] <Kerbero> o/
[20:34] <charlvn> good evening
[20:34] <charlvn> hi Kerbero
[20:34] <Kerbero> bonsoir
[20:35] <charlvn> konbanwa minasan
[21:03] <charlvn> nn all


[00:15] <fagan> hmmmm what package do I report the new notification area thing against?
[00:17] <rickspencer3> fagan, what's the bug?
[00:17] <fagan> we talked about a few things on the ayatana mailing list a few months back and we thought it would be good to remove the vpn item from that
[00:17] <rickspencer3> fagan, I would suggest just logging it against Unity, then let them assign it to the correct package
[00:17] <fagan> cool
[00:45] <lifeless> whats the right place to seek assistance with a 3g modem issue
[00:47] <fagan> lifeless: thats a good question
[00:47] <fagan> it depends on what kind of issue it is really
[00:55] <lifeless> fagan: vodafone prepay modem, bought today, k3571-Z
[00:55] <lifeless> reports 'error code 3: no carrier' when attempting to connect
[00:56] <lifeless> debug trace shows that its getting NO CARRIER in response to ATD*99***2# (or something like that - and that that is referencing the right APN in the APN array on the sim/modem)
[00:57] <fagan> interesting
[00:57] <lifeless> I don't know enough to guess if this is a provider issue, interaction-with-phone-issue, bug, or what have you.
[00:58] <fagan> hmmmm well id say the best person to ask would be the maintainer of that package
[00:58]  * fagan checks
[01:00] <fagan> Bhavani Shankar maintains it in ubuntu
[01:01] <fagan> he could point you to the upstream and they can help
[01:01] <fagan> we dont maintain that list in ubuntu so I dont think anyone around here would know about it
[01:02] <ajmitch> lifeless: I think some people discussed this on the ubuntu-nz list awhile back
[01:04] <lifeless> ajmitch: linky link?
[01:05] <ajmitch> looking for it, otherwise someone in #ubuntu-nz might know better
[01:07] <ajmitch> sigh, can't find it now
[01:08] <ajmitch> best I can find is http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1569910 talking about needing to use usb-modeswitch
[01:12] <lifeless> ajmitch: its detected
[01:12] <lifeless> mm chats with it happily
[01:13] <lifeless> fagan: do you know their irc nick?
[01:29] <fagan> lifeless: on launchpad it says coolbhavi
[01:29] <fagan> but if I remember right he goes between that and bhavi
[01:30] <fagan> id say the best chance is to email him<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[01:40] <james_w> lifeless, cyphermox might be able to help you debug, he's one of the Ubuntu NM maintainers
[01:41] <james_w> lifeless, will likely be your AM when you are next both on though
[01:42] <ajmitch> so confusing seeing NM & AM together & not have them refer to debian
[01:43] <fagan> yeah the entire thing is confusing in terms of ownership I think
[02:14] <rickspencer3> lifeless, not confusing on the desktop
[02:14] <rickspencer3> it is definetly cyphermox !
[03:11] <fta> hm, got 2 regressions after today's upgrade. 1/ when starting with metacity, there's no panel anymore. 2/ when using a launcher on the panel, the app appears on workspace 1 instead of the current workspace
[03:28] <lifeless> rickspencer3: thanks
[03:28] <lifeless> cyphermox: ping
[03:29] <lifeless> cyphermox: see backlog re: modemmanager
[03:29] <cyphermox> lifeless, I'm afrait I don't have that backlog
[03:30] <micahg> cyphermox: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/12/02/%23ubuntu-desktop.html#t00:45
[03:31] <lifeless> micahg: thanks!
[03:31] <cyphermox> yeah, I just got to it, I'm reading
[03:31] <micahg> lifeless: np
[03:38] <cyphermox> lifeless, from the logs I assume you already ran MM in debug mode, could you point me to the logs?
[03:39] <lifeless> cyphermox: I did, I didn't save them.
[03:39] <lifeless> I'll redo.
[03:41] <cyphermox> please, that should give something useful to start with... do you use this with a separate sim card or the same as for your phone, if you have one?
[03:42] <lifeless> its a new prepaid sim
[03:42] <lifeless> single pack at the vodafone store contained modem and sim
[03:42] <lifeless> they activated it for me
[03:43] <lifeless> hang on
[03:45] <cyphermox> lifeless, I'm just asking because sharing a sim leads to fun issues like pin2 and stuff that might not work well with MM, at least that has been an issue in the past
[03:46] <lifeless> cyphermox: do you want me to try connecting with these debug logs open ?
[03:47] <lifeless> https://pastebin.canonical.com/40373/
[03:48] <lifeless> https://pastebin.canonical.com/40374/
[03:48] <lifeless> https://pastebin.canonical.com/40375/
[03:48] <lifeless> (I'm connected on wifi simultaneously to tal to you
[03:50] <cyphermox> lifeless, had you been connected to wired we could have tried to stop MM and NM and pass commands to the modem manually, but I don't know what yet, I need to look at your pastes
[03:50] <lifeless> cyphermox: I can be on wired
[03:50] <lifeless> cyphermox: should I ?
[03:50] <cyphermox> lifeless, no need for now
[04:01] <cyphermox> very weird
[04:01] <cyphermox> you bought it today?
[04:02] <lifeless> yes
[04:02] <lifeless> perhaps its not activated correctly; I can ring their helpdesk if that seems likely.
[04:05] <Sarvatt> lifeless: Vodafone (UK) K3570-Z TopUp And Go ?
[04:05] <Sarvatt> you aren't the only one according to google if so https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=623950
[04:05] <lifeless> Sarvatt: no, .au
[04:05] <ubot2> bugzilla.redhat.com bug 623950 in ModemManager "Vodafone (UK) K3570-Z TopUp And Go mobile broadband dongle won't connect" [Medium,New]
[04:06] <lifeless> k3571-z
[04:10] <lifeless> Sarvatt: It may be the same issue of course, I don't know what the 0->1 change means hw or s.w wise.
[04:11] <lifeless> Sarvatt: it looks different
[04:11] <lifeless> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/attachment.cgi?id=438796
[04:11] <lifeless> they don't get NO CARRIER
[04:12] <cyphermox> lifeless, fwiw, I recall being told activation could take up to a few hours
[04:12] <lifeless> cyphermox: yah, let me un plug and replug.
[04:12] <lifeless> it was, uhm, 6 hours back
[04:13] <cyphermox> I don't see why you'd be able to properly register on the network but get a no carrier error like this, unless it was that there really was low signal, but afair 13,99 is not that bad
[04:14] <cyphermox> trying to re-download the spec now to check ;)
[04:24] <lifeless> cyphermox: unplugged, plugged in, still no go:
[04:24] <lifeless> Dec  2 17:23:43 lifeless-64 modem-manager: Modem /org/freedesktop/ModemManager/Modems/1: state changed (registered -> connecting)
[04:24] <lifeless> Dec  2 17:23:43 lifeless-64 modem-manager: Got failure code 3: No carrier
[04:24] <lifeless> Dec  2 17:23:43 lifeless-64 modem-manager: Modem /org/freedesktop/ModemManager/Modems/1: state changed (connecting -> registered)
[04:26] <cyphermox> yeah best I can think of is wait or call their helpdesk, all I see right now looks fine to me
[04:28] <cyphermox> unless it needs some special command magic that I'm not aware of. but then I'll have to share with dcbw to see if he knows about it
[04:34] <cyphermox> lifeless, can you tell me the usb id for your modem so I can speak to dcbw later?
[04:35] <lifeless> sure, its not in the logs?
[04:37] <lifeless> cyphermox: they say 'definitely activated'
[04:37] <lifeless> Bus 002 Device 005: ID 19d2:1010 ONDA Communication S.p.A.
[04:37] <cyphermox> ah
[04:38] <lifeless> is betavine useful, or likely to trash my system?
[04:38] <cyphermox> betavine?
[04:38] <lifeless> https://forge.betavine.net/
[04:39] <lifeless> https://forge.betavine.net/frs/?group_id=76&release_id=282
[04:41] <cyphermox> usb_modeswitch_data you may want to try. it's not hugely damageable, maybe they switch the mode slightly differently and that will allow your modem to work
[04:41] <cyphermox> to know, check the contained files that would get installed in /etc/modeswitch.d for the usb ID
[04:42] <lifeless> bah, its not in it
[04:43] <lifeless> https://forge.betavine.net/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/trunk/src/vodafone-mobile-connect/resources/platform/ubuntu/etc/udev/rules.d/45-vmc-zte.rules?rev=1086&root=vodafonemobilec&view=auto
[04:43] <lifeless> covers it though
[04:44] <cyphermox> that was fixed some time ago
[04:45] <cyphermox> anyway, the file in the usb_modeswitch package they have is the same we ship in maverick and natty
[04:45] <cyphermox> I'll brb, need to reboot into a live session
[04:52] <lifeless> .
[04:54] <cyphermox> all I see is a dot, did I miss something?
[04:58] <lifeless_> cyphermox: I'm on wired now, nm killed off
[05:00] <cyphermox> ok
[05:00] <cyphermox> I still have no clear clue what to check though
[05:00] <lifeless_> helpdesk said *99# right number, or *99***1# / *99***2#
[05:01] <cyphermox> I'd be tempted to get at least at+clac? to know what commands the modem accepts, and maybe at+rssi? to know the signal level
[05:01] <cyphermox> yeah
[05:01] <lifeless_> I'm on ttyUSB1 in minicom
[05:01] <lifeless_> is that suitable
[05:01] <cyphermox> yep
[05:01] <cyphermox> I was going to suggest screen, but minicom works as well
[05:01] <cyphermox> speed is 115200, or whatever that number is for the highest setting
[05:02] <lifeless> https://pastebin.canonical.com/40376/
[05:03] <lifeless> AT+RSSI
[05:03] <lifeless> ERROR
[05:04] <cyphermox> duh, i'm being dumb, that one is called different on zte modems
[05:04] <lifeless> AT+ZRSSI
[05:04] <lifeless> +ZRSSI: 82,16,180
[05:04] <lifeless> OK
[05:04] <lifeless> ?
[05:04] <cyphermox> yep
[05:04] <cyphermox> thanks ;)
[05:05] <lifeless> so, perhaps we shouldn't be doing ATD on USB1?
[05:06] <lifeless> theres like 4 ports
[05:06] <cyphermox> that's very plausible
[05:07] <cyphermox> let's check something -- using wvdial and plain ppp
[05:07] <bratsche> Is lp:eog the bzr import of upstream which we're using for Natty?  Does anyone know?
[05:08] <lifeless> cyphermox: ready when you are
[05:10] <lifeless> cyphermox: bingo
[05:10] <lifeless> usb3:
[05:10] <lifeless> at
[05:10] <lifeless> OK
[05:10] <lifeless> atd*99***2#
[05:10] <lifeless> CONNECT 3600000
[05:14] <lifeless> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/modemmanager/+bug/683996
[05:14] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 683996 in modemmanager (Ubuntu) "NO CARRIER error vodafone K3571-Z ZTE 3g modem (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New]
[05:15] <cyphermox> sorry dude, I'm doing multiple things at once and it's getting really late here :/
[05:15] <lifeless> thats ok
[05:15] <lifeless> I'm looking for the control file now to tell mm what to do
[05:15] <cyphermox> cool, with this bug I'll be able to look at it tomorrow at worst
[05:18] <lifeless> in /lib/udev/rules.d/77-mm-zte-port-types.rules
[05:18] <lifeless> what are the two lines
[05:18] <lifeless> and what are the defaults?
[05:19] <cyphermox> err, give me 2 min to get back to a non-live session where I can actually do stuff and I' ll look in the code to know ;)
[05:19] <lifeless> kk
[05:19] <lifeless> I'll WAG it for now
[05:27] <lifeless> found it I think
[05:27] <lifeless> https://forge.betavine.net/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/trunk/src/core/resources/udev/77-vmc-zte.rules?root=bcm&rev=608&r1=584&r2=608
[05:28] <Sarvatt> ATTRS{idProduct}=="1010", ENV{.MM_USBIFNUM}=="03", ENV{ID_MM_ZTE_PORT_TYPE_MODEM}="1"
[05:28] <Sarvatt> ATTRS{idProduct}=="1010", ENV{.MM_USBIFNUM}=="01", ENV{ID_MM_ZTE_PORT_TYPE_AUX}="1"
[05:28] <Sarvatt>  maybe?
[05:29] <Sarvatt> yep there it is
[05:33] <lifeless_> win
[05:34] <lifeless_> cyphermox: any diagnostics you want done ?
[05:37] <lifeless> cyphermox: there are other models there that may need snarfing and including upstream
[05:41] <cyphermox> cool, if you feel like it, go ahead and propose changes, we use this branch for packaging MM: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~modemmanager/modemmanager/ubuntu
[05:41] <cyphermox> otherwise I'll do it tomorrow (it's almost 1am here)
[05:49] <lifeless> cyphermox: tomorrow is fine, I have other fish to fry!
[05:50] <pitti> Good morning
[05:50] <lifeless> http://rbtcollins.wordpress.com/2010/12/02/justworks-hardware-vendors/
[05:50] <lifeless> cyphermox: ^ fy entertainment
[05:51] <cyphermox> lifeless, cool :)
[05:51] <lifeless> thanks for your help, was wonderful.
[05:51] <cyphermox> pitti, good morning ;)
[05:52] <pitti> hey cyphermox
[05:58] <lifeless> Sarvatt: that uk user
[05:58] <lifeless> Sarvatt: I think his modem will be fixed by the same patch as mine - he has the ...0 variant
[05:58]  * Sarvatt nods
[05:59] <lifeless> the patch I found, and referenced has both.
[06:15] <rickspencer3> hey pitti good morning
[06:15] <pitti> hey rickspencer3, how are you?
[06:15] <rickspencer3> well
[06:15] <rickspencer3> listening to some music before I turn in
[06:16] <rickspencer3> pitti, seems the Alpha 1 image is working reasonably well
[06:16] <pitti> nice to hear
[06:16] <rickspencer3> indeed
[06:16]  * pitti just rsyncing the latest one
[06:16] <pitti> kvm is still acting up for me, but on real iron the live system comes up quite nicely
[06:17] <rickspencer3> mmm
[06:17] <rickspencer3> for an A1, well, seems quite suitable for early feedback
[06:17] <rickspencer3> and the Unity launcher is surprisingly usable, at least for me with my Intel graphics
[06:34] <pitti> robert_ancell: hey
[06:35] <pitti> robert_ancell: I uploaded the new glade because (1) it was going to stick in binary NEW, and (2) glade-3 isn't on our CDs, so it couldn't break the images
[06:35] <pitti> robert_ancell: apparently it got binNEWed, so indeed we need to rebuild gnome-media now; I see that you already prepared it in bzr, do you want to upload, or want me to?
[06:36] <pitti> robert_ancell: I'll respond to your second question via mail
[06:37] <robert_ancell> pitti, you can upload, I'm about to leave.  I was just waiting for A1 to be released
[06:37] <pitti> robert_ancell: ok, will do; have a good night!
[07:41] <didrocks> good morning
[07:45] <micahg> if there's no rush, I can take the gnome-shell gir-repository-dev build-dep drop
[07:47] <didrocks> hey pitti
[07:48] <didrocks> pitti: robert uploaded unity it seems, I'm not sure about his patch, do you think it's in the iso?
[08:09] <pitti> hey didrocks, good morning
[08:09] <pitti> micahg: thanks
[08:09] <pitti> micahg: no, it's not that urgent
[08:10] <pitti> didrocks: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/20101202/natty-desktop-i386.manifest
[08:10] <pitti> didrocks: which version do we expect?
[08:10] <pitti> didrocks: it seems to be the current one (3.2.2-0ubuntu2)
[08:11] <didrocks> pitti: hey
[08:11] <didrocks> yeah…
[08:11] <didrocks> don't know why people upload hacks without upstream review :/
[08:11] <didrocks> well… that's ok, we'll see
[08:13] <didrocks> pitti: btw, it seems that apport doesn't trigger on crashes when there is no notification area. I think it's related to update-notifier, isn't it?
[08:13] <pitti> didrocks: correct
[08:13] <didrocks> (it seems it tries to launch it, then stop, tries, stop…)
[08:13] <didrocks> ok, I'll have a look there if you don't mind
[08:13] <pitti> we need update-notifier for this
[08:14] <pitti> if u-n isn't running, apport crashes won't be shown
[08:14] <didrocks> that will be better for unity :)
[08:14] <pitti> (it still catches them, though, at least in the live system)
[08:14] <didrocks> less bugs \o/
[08:14] <didrocks> yeah
[08:14] <pitti> didrocks: I figure u-n will move to an appindicator?
[08:15] <didrocks> pitti: seems logical, I have to look at what's it displaying
[08:15] <didrocks> rather than having a dummy menu, maybe we can build one with "crash on app1", "crash on app2"…
[08:15] <didrocks> so that when you click on it, you only report one crash
[08:16] <didrocks> (I guess it's calling apport-bug)
[08:33] <rodrigo_> morning
[08:34] <didrocks> hey rodrigo_
[08:36] <seb128> hey
[08:36] <didrocks> salut seb128
[08:36] <seb128> lut didrocks
[08:36] <seb128> didrocks, how are you?
[08:37] <seb128> didrocks, sorry about the unity upload not compliant to your rules
[08:37] <seb128> I was on a maverick box and couldn't do build and testing yesterday and we needed to get that fix out
[08:37] <didrocks> especially in freeze and with a patch without upstream review
[08:37] <seb128> well, a1 was crashing on the livecd for everyone
[08:37] <seb128> and you were not around
[08:37] <didrocks> oh really?
[08:37] <seb128> the patch is coming from jay
[08:38] <seb128> didrocks, yes, your import code imports examples.desktop
[08:38] <didrocks> ok, then :) I was afraid about the patch rather the upload :)
[08:38] <seb128> which is not an application desktop
[08:38] <seb128> the launcher go "what?"
[08:38] <seb128> and crash
[08:38] <didrocks> ok, I imported that because the launcher was supposed to deal with those desktop files
[08:38] <seb128> well it doesn't
[08:39] <seb128> it was just crashing on the live session
[08:39] <didrocks> ok, then, it's ok if upstream reviewed the patch :)
[08:39] <seb128> it's not reviewed
[08:39] <didrocks> can you make sure that it's in trunk as well?
[08:39] <seb128> I could get hold of anybody but jay
[08:39] <didrocks> wel, jay did it
[08:39] <didrocks> ok
[08:39] <seb128> couldn't
[08:39] <seb128> brb getting coffee
[08:39] <didrocks> is there an upstream bug about it?
[08:39] <rodrigo_> hi didrocks, seb128
[08:39] <seb128> the bug has the reference and the vcs from jay
[08:39] <didrocks> (still not at the end of the 50+ bugs email related to unity)
[08:42] <seb128> hey rodrigo_
[08:43] <seb128> didrocks, so robert didn't know about bzr merging some revision to backport the fix
[08:43] <seb128> didrocks, he switched to v3 because that was easier that to add a patch system
[08:43] <didrocks> seb128: well, let's no worry about that, I'll just revert the v3 source
[08:43] <geser> does someone have an idea why gnome-panel doesn't autostart anymore for me (natty)?
[08:43] <seb128> I guess you only want to merge the changelog entry and backport the commit once in trunk
[08:43] <didrocks> seb128: I was just worried about the patch not being blessed by anyone :)
[08:44] <didrocks> seb128: right, I'm not sure about that commit or to add proper support
[08:44] <seb128> didrocks, it has been made by jay and confirmed to work by several people
[08:44] <seb128> it's just a workaround for a1
[08:44] <didrocks> seb128: sure, it's totally fine, no worry :)
[08:47] <seb128> didrocks, the side effect is a launcher without text or icon
[08:47] <didrocks> RAOF: does emacs23.dekstop or whatever has a path to icon=/ ?
[08:47] <didrocks> seb128: yeah, for those, the nautilus icon makes sense, doesn't it?
[08:47] <seb128> well the .desktop has an Icon= line
[08:47] <didrocks> (well, if the launcher is supposed to support them)
[08:48] <seb128> the launcher code probably just fail to parse it
[08:48] <didrocks> ok, I know there are some failing when Icon=/absolute/path
[08:48] <seb128> I blame it on njpatel ;-)
[08:48] <didrocks> but it doesn't crash, you have the ?
[08:48] <seb128> didrocks, in this case it's "Icon=folder"
[08:48] <didrocks> well, it didn't
[08:48] <didrocks> hum, ok :)
[08:48] <didrocks> so unknown icon
[08:48] <seb128> didrocks, it's just that the desktop type is no application
[08:48] <seb128> it's a directory
[08:48] <didrocks> yeah… I'll fix that, sounds small and easy :)
[08:49] <seb128> ;-)
[08:49] <seb128> great!
[08:49] <RAOF> didrocks: Yeah, it does - I found the relevant unity bug and duped it against it.
[08:49] <didrocks> I have that + the other case
[08:49] <seb128> didrocks, is there any sort of tests for the launcher?
[08:49] <didrocks> RAOF: yeah, I have it with a wine app (monkey island2, special edition) :)
[08:49] <seb128> seems a case to add to the tests
[08:49] <didrocks> seb128: there are a lot
[08:49] <didrocks> seb128: not enough apparently :)
[08:49] <didrocks> but yeah, there are
[08:49] <seb128> ok
[08:49] <didrocks> not sure about corrupted .desktop file though
[08:50]  * didrocks adds to his TODO
[08:50] <seb128> well that one is not corrupted
[08:50] <seb128> do you want me to try to debug the issue?
[08:50] <didrocks> well, corrupted/not as expected/ :)
[08:50] <seb128> would be a nice way to get around the unity code
[08:50] <didrocks> seb128: no, it's fine, I just finish catching up on my email and then I have time for that
[08:50] <seb128> ok
[08:50] <seb128> I need to find another bug
[08:50] <didrocks> "it's mine, it's mine" :)
[08:50] <seb128> I want to start getting familiat wirh unity
[08:51] <seb128> t->r
[08:51] <didrocks> seb128: do you want bitesize-like bug? I'm afraid the one you reported aren't easy
[08:52] <didrocks> seb128: for instance, the animation "too quick" is a workaround for the launcher not being clickable on "urgent" state
[08:52] <seb128> didrocks, right, I don't want to get close from compiz (yet)
[08:52] <seb128> like no work on focus issues
[08:52] <seb128> that launcher one seems something easy to start with
[08:52] <seb128> but I will find another one
[08:52] <seb128> don't worry ;-)
[08:52] <seb128> I'm subscribed to the unity bugs and they are supposed to build lists for people like me every week
[08:53] <didrocks> ok :)
[08:53] <seb128> so we know on what we can help a bit ;-)
[08:53] <didrocks> yeah, there are another bitesize one IIRC
[08:59] <rodrigo_> seb128, looking at your comment at https://code.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/ubuntu/natty/gnome-control-center/2_91_3_release/+merge/42134 -> indeed I forgot to add some removed patches to debian/changelog, but debian/patches/01_remove_debian_default_applications.patch hasn't been deleted
[09:00] <rodrigo_> seb128, pushing my fixed changelog
[09:00] <seb128> rodrigo_, oh right, I saw only red lines for it
[09:00] <seb128> though it seemed to be code deleted rather than updated
[09:00] <seb128> rodrigo_, sorry about that ;-)
[09:00] <seb128> I guess upstream dropped the debian entry from the list?
[09:00] <rodrigo_> seb128, no problem, there's indeed code removed
[09:01] <rodrigo_> seb128, no, just the list of web browsers
[09:01] <rodrigo_> we use g_app_info_* now instead of a fixed list of browsers
[09:01] <rodrigo_> ditto for mail readers
[09:02] <rodrigo_> seb128, there's still the part of the patch which removes the debian terminal
[09:02] <seb128> ok
[09:02] <rodrigo_> seb128, ok, pushed
[09:02] <seb128> great
[09:02] <seb128> brb
[09:17] <GunnarHj> pitti: Good Morning! Thought I'd try to catch you before they wake up over there... Fresh patches and merge proposals, hopefully ready for a more 'sharp' review. See also comment #70, 73 and 74 at https://launchpad.net/bugs/553162
[09:17] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 553162 in language-selector (Ubuntu) (and 3 other projects) "Set $LANGUAGE if the user picks a different locale in gdm, so that language-selector and gdm stop disagreeing (affects: 30) (dups: 10) (heat: 192)" [Undecided,In progress]
[09:18] <pitti> GunnarHj: I saw the responses, thanks!
[09:18] <seb128> re
[09:18] <seb128>  sorry I compiz crashes really screwed my xorg
[09:18] <seb128>  I had to restart
[09:20]  * seb128 does some config changes
[09:20] <seb128> let's remove IRC from my autostart softwares
[09:20] <GunnarHj> pitti: Are we close to committing?
[09:21] <didrocks> seb128: hum? still crashes with latest compiz?
[09:21] <pitti> GunnarHj: I still have to catch up with all the recent comments
[09:21] <pitti> GunnarHj: but this should certainly land by a2 if we can get to an agreement how to juggle all the files :)
[09:24] <GunnarHj> pitti: Ok, I'll be patient. Logging out now; back in a few hours.
[09:36] <dpm> hey pitti, good morning. Have you had a chance to have a look at what happened with yesterday's maverick langpack build in the PPA?
[09:37] <pitti> dpm: not yet, sorry; I'm currently drowning in emails and external requests
[09:37] <pitti> but it's high on my list, promised
[09:37] <dpm> pitti, no worries, thanks!
[10:02] <seb128> kklimonda1, hi
[10:08] <Zdra> is there a way to remove a package from a ppa?
[10:08] <seb128> yes, go in the detailled view of the ppa
[10:09] <seb128> on the right of the page you have a delete page url
[10:09] <Zdra> I've uploaded an old broken gnome-keyring which generate a libgcr0 package, now I uploaded a fix that rename it to libgcr-3... but ppa still give the broken libgcr0 and override maverick's
[10:09] <Zdra> seb128, ^
[10:10] <seb128> what ppa is that?
[10:10] <Zdra> https://launchpad.net/~telepathy/+archive/telepathy-devel
[10:11] <seb128> Zdra, click on "view package details"
[10:11] <seb128> in the right corner
[10:11] <seb128> then on "delete packages"
[10:11] <seb128> you should have the old gnome-keyring in the list
[10:11] <seb128> select it and delete it
[10:13] <Zdra> seb128, oh sorry, didn't realize that delete package shows more packages than the normal view
[10:13] <Zdra> seb128, thanks :D
[10:13] <seb128> you're welcome
[10:13] <seb128> it's a bit confusing indded
[10:13] <seb128> indeed
[10:14] <rodrigo_> Zdra, that's already available in the gnome3 ppa
[10:14] <Zdra> rodrigo_, I know, I copied your package ;)
[10:14] <Zdra> thanks :)
[10:15] <rodrigo_> Zdra, ah, ok
[10:15] <rodrigo_> Zdra, working on the telepathy stack for gtk3?
[10:16] <Zdra> yep
[10:16] <Zdra> we got everything
[10:16] <rodrigo_> cool
[10:17] <rodrigo_> and are you keeping stuff in that PPA, or do you plan to put it on the gnome3 one?
[10:20] <cassidy> our telepathy-devel PPA should contain everything
[10:20] <Zdra> rodrigo_, I don't want to use gnome3 ppa, it contains too much things
[10:20] <Zdra> rodrigo_, I prefer keeping the minimum to havem empathy3 running
[10:21] <seb128> will empathy run fine on GNOME 2.32?
[10:21] <seb128> out of the gtk3 depends
[10:22] <Zdra> seb128, yes
[10:22] <seb128> well, like will it required other GNOME3 desktop components to integrate correctly?
[10:22] <Zdra> seb128, I have it here
[10:23] <Zdra> seb128, but GTK theme does not work :(
[10:23] <seb128> right, it does, but is it going to stay this way?
[10:23] <Zdra> seb128, it also need keyring/canberra/notify
[10:23] <seb128> well I guess you don't get the nautilus-sendto integration to work for example
[10:23] <seb128> since nautilus is still on gtk2
[10:24] <Zdra> seb128, that's optional at build-time
[10:24] <Zdra> but indeed, I don't think it works
[10:39] <seb128> didrocks, dbarth: bug #683797
[10:39] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 683797 in apport "apport should work without the systray (affects: 1) (heat: 10)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/683797
[10:39] <seb128> could you give details?
[10:39] <seb128> I've a GNOME session without systray and it works fine there...
[10:41] <didrocks> seb128: even if you get a crash?
[10:41] <seb128> didrocks, yes
[10:41] <didrocks> seb128: ubuntu-bug works and apport-bug as well
[10:41] <seb128> I just sig11 gconf-editor to try
[10:42] <seb128> with update-notifier running on a command line
[10:42] <seb128> it notices the .crash and fire apport
[10:42] <didrocks> weird, it's not working there and pitti confirmed that update-notifier needs porting for it working
[10:42] <didrocks> it went in a loop cycle for me
[10:42] <seb128> hum, "porting"?
[10:42] <seb128> to what?
[10:42] <didrocks> (yesterday)
[10:42] <didrocks> seb128: to indicator, not systray
[10:42] <seb128> it's a service
[10:42] <didrocks> ad the bug title infered
[10:42] <seb128> why does it need any ui to run apport?
[10:42] <didrocks> as*
[10:43] <didrocks> don't ask me… I just reported what I saw yesterday
[10:43] <didrocks> but my session was maybe broken, let me try today
[10:43] <seb128> ok, weird
[10:43] <seb128> I tried again works fine
[10:43] <didrocks> so, I started with unity, no gnome-panel
[10:43] <didrocks> I have update-notifier launched
[10:43] <seb128> but I'm running update-notifier manually on a command line to see the output
[10:44] <seb128> I cleaned /var/crash
[10:44] <didrocks> here, it was runned by the system
[10:44] <seb128> because I had issues where it didn't notice new crashes for some reason otherwise
[10:44] <didrocks> run*
[10:44] <didrocks> let's try to triger a segv
[10:44] <didrocks> trigger*
[10:44] <seb128> I just send a -11 to gconf-editor there to try
[10:44] <pitti> didrocks: bash -c 'kill -SEGV $$'
[10:44] <didrocks> (that's what I did yesterday)
[10:45] <pitti> ^ triggers an easy crash
[10:45] <seb128> checking for valid crashreport now
[10:45] <seb128> gconf-editor
[10:45] <seb128> ** (update-notifier:26767): DEBUG: fire up the crashreport tool
[10:45] <seb128> that's what update-notifier does
[10:45] <didrocks> ok, nothing with gconf-editor
[10:45] <seb128> and I get the apport "restart" "report" "ignore"
[10:45] <didrocks> let's see with killing the current terminal
[10:46] <didrocks> nothing as well
[10:46] <seb128> ok, weird
[10:46] <seb128> I will try in an unity session later
[10:46] <didrocks> if I ps aux | grep apport
[10:46] <didrocks> I see apport is launched
[10:46] <seb128> didrocks, update-notifier doesn't print anything?
[10:46] <didrocks> stopped, launched
[10:46] <seb128> hum
[10:46] <didrocks> seb128: well, I don't run it by hand, are there logs?
[10:46] <seb128> seems an apport bug then?
[10:47] <seb128> didrocks, .xsession-errors
[10:47] <rodrigo_> Zdra, right, but we still want your packages in the gnome3 ppa, so how can we do it so that it's easy for you?
[10:48] <rodrigo_> Zdra, would it work if you packaged stuff in a lp:~ubuntu-desktop/$package/ubuntugtk3 branch, as we do with other gnome3 ppa stuff?
[10:48] <rodrigo_> Zdra, that is, if you submitted merge proposals to that branch?
[10:49] <Zdra> rodrigo_, we don't have empathy3 package yet
[10:49] <Zdra> we only collected all its dep
[10:49] <rodrigo_> Zdra, right, but we want all the deps also :)
[10:49] <Zdra> and we just copied packages from you, or from debian experimental
[10:49] <rodrigo_> oh
[10:49] <pitti> dpm: currently the maverick updates run on Saturdays; is that wrong?
[10:50] <pitti> dpm: lucid updates shold run today
[10:50] <pitti> dpm: sorry, yesterday
[10:50] <Zdra> rodrigo_, so there is not much you can benefit from that ppa actually, it's just an help for empathy devs
[10:50] <dpm> pitti, that does not seem to be correct: https://dev.launchpad.net/Translations/LanguagePackSchedule
[10:50] <rodrigo_> Zdra, ok, so you don't plan to be doing lots of changes in the packages, apart from copying them from our ppa and debian?
[10:50] <didrocks> seb128: nothing, let me try running update-notifier manually
[10:50] <pitti> dpm: hm, seems that I got that the wrong way around then
[10:51] <didrocks> seb128: my .xsession-errors is spammed by unity warning
[10:51] <Zdra> rodrigo_, we are doing no change at all ;)
[10:51] <dpm> pitti, ah. Is that easily fixable? Is it just a matter of updating the cron tab?
[10:51] <Zdra> rodrigo_, we are not packagers, only devs ;)
[10:51] <rodrigo_> Zdra, ok then, I guess I'll copy your packages then to ubuntugtk3 branches
[10:51] <pitti> dpm: sure, already done
[10:52] <pitti> dpm: at least lucid ran through just fine
[10:52] <dpm> pitti, awesome, thanks. Is there a way to trigger a PPA build for maverick today and copy it to -proposed when finished, so that we can start with the testing?
[10:52] <rodrigo_> seb128, do you agree on that? (copying the packages from Zdra's ppa to ubuntugtk3 branches, with a merge proposal from me first, of course :-)
[10:53] <pitti> dpm: it will run automatically
[10:53] <seb128> rodrigo_, they shouldn't have anything we don't have, but sure
[10:53] <pitti> dpm: it shold run in about 3 hours
[10:53] <rodrigo_> seb128, well, they have the new telepathy, built with gtk3, right Zdra?
[10:53] <seb128> rodrigo_, telepathy doesn't use gtk
[10:53] <pitti> dpm: argh, sorry; Thu today; yes, I'll run it manualy now
[10:53] <Zdra> rodrigo_, seb128: afaik the only things not coming from gnome3 ppa is telepathy-* which are in debian
[10:53] <rodrigo_> ok
[10:54] <Zdra> rodrigo_, telepathy-* packages does not depend on gtk
[10:54] <seb128> we get the telepathy updates from debian
[10:54] <didrocks> seb128: I have no log in update-notifier, even if I kill the system one and launch by hand
[10:54] <rodrigo_> ok, then we just need empathy from them, when they build it :-)
[10:54] <pitti> dpm: running now, let's see how it holds up
[10:54] <dpm> pitti, ok, so maverick: manual run today and then the next run will be automatic on Wed at 14:00 UTC, right?
[10:54] <pitti> dpm: correct
[10:54] <dpm> great.
[10:54] <pitti> dpm: well, 14:00 british time, to be precise
[10:55] <pitti> i. e. an hour later in the summer
[10:55] <dpm> :-)
[10:55] <and471> hey mvo & mpt
[10:55] <mpt> Good morning
[10:55] <mvo> hey and
[10:55] <mvo> and471:
[10:55] <mvo> good morning
[10:55] <and471> mvo, mpt, college is closed :)
[10:56] <mpt> aha
[10:56] <seb128> didrocks, ok, thanks, I will try under unity later on
[10:56] <dpm> pitti, ok, could we also activate the Natty langpacks uploads just after A1, so that we can start testing them? We're about to open translations in LP (should have done already a few days ago, it's been blocking on me)
[10:56] <cdbs> echo "hey" | all
[10:56] <rodrigo_> seb128, and when/how do we get updates from debian? (for telepathy-*)
[10:56] <and471> hey bilal
[10:56] <seb128> rodrigo_, we do syncs on debian almost daily when we are not in freeze for alpha
[10:56] <seb128> like that's the case this week
[10:56] <pitti> dpm: yes, we can do that
[10:57] <cdbs> seb128: We sync daily?
[10:57] <cdbs> I thought once in 3-4 days!
[10:57] <rodrigo_> seb128, hmm, ok
[10:57] <seb128> rodrigo_, why? is there an issue?
[10:57] <rodrigo_> seb128, no, was just wondering
[10:57] <dpm> pitti, great, thanks again
[10:57] <rodrigo_> and also, where's a list of packages we get from debian? so that we don't update them?
[10:58] <seb128> rodrigo_, everything which has a revision without ubuntu in it
[10:58] <rodrigo_> ah, ok
[10:58] <and471> mpt, do you get in on the train?
[10:58] <mpt> and471, no, I walk
[10:58] <and471> ah
[10:58] <and471> mpt, trains were very delayed today...
[10:58] <didrocks> seb128: ok, if I clean /var/crash/ it's working with or without systray… It seems that I had something in /var/crash now spawning it (and dbarth too)
[10:58] <Zdra> rodrigo_, tbh we are waiting for you/debian to package empathy
[10:59] <Zdra> rodrigo_, as I said, we are not packagers ;)
[10:59] <seb128> didrocks, ok, what I said before
[10:59] <didrocks> seb128: well, to be confirmed, I relaunch update-notifier manually
[10:59] <seb128> I cleaned /var/crash
[10:59] <seb128> because I had issues where it didn't notice new crashes for some reason otherwise
[10:59] <seb128> didrocks, ^
[10:59] <didrocks> seb128: so, the ping is rather that there are invalid /var/crash or some logic there preventing to present new crashes?
[10:59] <seb128> that was like 10 minutes ago
[10:59] <rodrigo_> Zdra, ok, I'll try empathy packaging, as soon as I finish a couple other packages I'm working on
[11:00] <seb128> didrocks, I didn't debug that so not sure
[11:00] <seb128> rodrigo_, btw before going for new packages could you try sorting the patches you commented
[11:00] <didrocks> I'll update the bug report, in any case, we need indicator support for that
[11:00] <rodrigo_> seb128, yes
[11:00] <seb128> you did comment a bunch in different sources IIRC
[11:00] <Zdra> rodrigo_, cool thanks :D
[11:00] <seb128> didrocks, why?
[11:00] <seb128> didrocks, we don't use the systray for like 2 years?
[11:01] <rodrigo_> seb128, yes, I'm waiting for the upstream code to stabilize a bit, to not have to be rebasing the patches all the time
[11:01] <seb128> ok
[11:01] <didrocks> seb128: apport is showing in the systray to report bugs, isn't it?
[11:01] <rodrigo_> seb128, but yes, sure, I'll try rebasing some
[11:01] <seb128> didrocks, not for 2 years
[11:01] <didrocks> seb128: ? why do I get an icon there?
[11:01] <seb128> didrocks, we autospawn the apport dialog
[11:01] <didrocks> the ?
[11:01] <seb128> didrocks, because you tweaked the gconf key back then?
[11:01] <didrocks> hum, my config isn't so old IIRC, but maybe…
[11:02] <seb128> didrocks, /apps/update-notifier/auto_launch
[11:02] <didrocks> seb128: true
[11:02] <seb128> hum
[11:02] <seb128> so dunno why you get the systray icon
[11:02] <didrocks> and yes, it's launching automatically (apart with the previous bug)
[11:02] <seb128> I've not seen it on any of my boxes for years
[11:02] <didrocks> but I get the systray icon as well
[11:02] <dbarth> didrocks: so the bug is invalid then?
[11:03] <didrocks> dbarth: well, it seems there were some crash file confusing apport, do you still have your /var/crash?
[11:03] <seb128> dbarth, there is a bug but it's not due to the systray
[11:03] <didrocks> but still, let me see in a clean box
[11:03]  * didrocks update-iso
[11:04] <didrocks> I don't remember to have tweaked anything for the icon
[11:04] <didrocks> and my config is recent
[11:05] <seb128> didrocks, you get a systray icon on crash?
[11:05] <didrocks> /apps/update-notifier/hide_reboot_notification
[11:05] <didrocks> seb128: right
[11:05] <seb128> that's different
[11:05] <didrocks> hum?
[11:05] <didrocks> you told it doesn't use the systray, there is no icon
 /apps/update-notifier/hide_reboot_notification
[11:05] <seb128> that's different from the systray
[11:05] <dbarth> didrocks: i cleaned it, but i do have a new gvfsd crash that was present yesterday; it may be the cause of the issue; i'll retest in a moment
[11:05] <seb128> I think
[11:06] <didrocks> seb128: oh yeah, sorry, didn't look close enough
[11:06] <didrocks> trying to see if there is a key for that
[11:06] <didrocks> /apps/update-notifier/show_apport_crashes ?
[11:06] <didrocks> (that's the right paste)
[11:06] <didrocks> seems to be that from the description
[11:07] <didrocks> seb128: after unsetting the key, I still have true
[11:07] <didrocks> seems that *you* tweaked it :)
[11:07] <rodrigo_> so, any idea why patches might not be being applied when building a package?
[11:07] <rodrigo_> I've been looking, but really can't find why they're not applied
[11:08] <seb128> $ gconftool-2 --get /apps/update-notifier/show_apport_crashes
[11:08] <seb128> true
[11:08] <seb128> didrocks, ^
[11:08] <didrocks> and you don't get the icon?
[11:08] <seb128> no
[11:08] <didrocks> waow :)
[11:08] <seb128>         <long>If this is disabled, the user will not be notified about pending apport crash reports.</long>
[11:09] <didrocks> right "pending crash" == icon notification for me?
[11:09] <didrocks> as when you click on it, you process all previous crashes in /var/crash
[11:09] <didrocks> or do I understand that wrongly?
[11:10] <seb128> well, I get the apport dialog and no systray icon there
[11:10] <seb128> which I think is the intend
[11:10] <didrocks> I've always seen the systray icon, still downloading the iso, I'll keep you posted
[11:10] <seb128> mvo, ^
[11:10] <didrocks> then, we can refine if we need the port to indicator or not
[11:10] <kklimonda1> seb128: hi, sorry for disappearing - I got a flu or something similar and spent last few days in my bed.
[11:11] <didrocks> (still think that reporting easily previous crash is needed)
[11:11] <mvo> seb128: that is still there for crashes that happend for root, we don't want to throw a gksu widnow into the face of people
[11:11] <mvo> seb128: its apport really
[11:11] <didrocks> mvo: so, the icon showing for me in the systray is intended?
[11:12] <seb128> mvo, oh ok
[11:12] <seb128> didrocks, so it seems it's only when you get non user crashes
[11:12] <seb128> that's why I don't get it when crashing my gconf-editor
[11:12] <didrocks> yeah… seems that I have a lot of couchdb process crashing (not desktopcouch)
[11:13] <didrocks> so maybe that's why I took it for normal
[11:13] <didrocks> let me still have a test in a clean livecd
[11:13] <rodrigo_> hey kklimonda1
[11:13] <rodrigo_> kklimonda1, feeling better now?
[11:14] <kklimonda1> rodrigo_: yes, still not not fully recovered but at least I can focus on my computer again ;)
[11:14] <rodrigo_> :)
[11:15] <kklimonda1> at least for a while - looks like I'm getting a headache already. and the weather is getting better and better..
[11:15] <kklimonda1> seb128: I can push gtkmm packaging once I recall how to do that.. ;)
[11:16] <mvo> seb128, didrocks: yep, happy to discuss about improving that at some point. its a bit of a corner case I guess
[11:17] <seb128> kklimonda1, hey, ok, no hurry
[11:18] <seb128> kklimonda1, get better!
[11:18] <seb128> mvo, well in any case no systray support in unity
[11:18] <seb128> mvo, I will port if to appindicator
[11:19] <seb128> didrocks, do you still work on bug #656325?
[11:19] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 656325 in update-notifier (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "should use gsettings rather than gconf (affects: 1) (heat: 67)" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/656325
[11:19] <didrocks> seb128: well, it was my "free week hacking day", I wanted to tackle that today or tomorrow
[11:20] <seb128> ok
[11:20] <seb128> stop stealing all the fun tasks :p
[11:20] <didrocks> seb128: do it then, I've done enough gsettings porting :)
[11:20] <seb128> ok, thanks
[11:20] <seb128> I've done none yet
[11:20] <didrocks> thanks to you :)
[11:20] <seb128> I want to do one at least
[11:20] <didrocks> seb128: it's fun and easy!
[11:20]  * seb128 hugs didrocks
[11:20]  * didrocks hugs seb128
[11:28] <pitti> is anyone here on current natty i386?
[11:28] <seb128> pitti, sort of
[11:29] <seb128> I'm missing some updates but it's mostly "current"
[11:29] <seb128> I can updates missing bits if required ;-)
[11:29] <pitti> seb128: can you please run this:
[11:29] <didrocks> some here, apart from grub
[11:29] <pitti> python2.7 -c 'from gi.repository import Gdk, Gtk; Gtk.require_version("3.0"); print type(Gdk.WMFunction.MOVE), type(Gdk.WMFunction.MOVE|Gdk.WMFunction.RESIZE)'
[11:29] <pitti> seb128: and give me the output?
[11:29] <seb128> <class 'gi.repository.Gdk.Enum'> <type 'int'>
[11:29] <pitti> seb128: thanks
[11:29] <seb128> yw
[11:30] <pitti> so it's not an arch specific bug
[11:46] <didrocks> seb128: ok, so I triggered a crash on today's livecd. in unity session: you get an additional launcher item corresponding to the apport window.
[11:46] <seb128> didrocks, great
[11:47] <didrocks> seb128: but in the gnome-classic session, I have an empty /var/crash, send a segv to bash as a user, and I can the systray icon
[11:47] <didrocks> so, it seems to not be only for "root" apps, it's the general rule
[11:47] <seb128> weird, I can't confirm that here
[11:47] <seb128> ls /var/crash?
[11:47] <didrocks> _bin_bash.999.crash and .lock
[11:47] <didrocks> mvo: ^^
[11:48] <seb128> where 999 is your user?
[11:48] <didrocks> yeah, the ubuntu user in the live session
[11:48] <pitti> 999 is the ubuntu live system user, FTR
[11:48] <didrocks> so, I think there is a check id < 1000
[11:49] <mvo> right
[11:49] <seb128> could be
[11:49] <mvo> iirc that is the case, it checks for system users
[11:49] <seb128> in any case I will port to the indicator
[11:49] <didrocks> ok, make sense then :)
[11:50] <didrocks> seb128: you never have couchdb crashing for the last release to not have seen the icon? :)
[11:50] <seb128> no
[11:50] <seb128> but I don't have an u1 account
[11:50] <seb128> well I don't use u1 rather
[11:51] <seb128> I share nothing and sync nothing
[11:51] <didrocks> make sense then :)
[11:52] <didrocks> thanks for the confirmation seb128 and mvo!
[11:52] <seb128> didrocks, thank you for investigating and helping to figure what's going on ;-)
[11:52] <seb128> there is still a bug where it doesn't notice new .crashes though
[11:52] <didrocks> maybe we should < 999 then for the live session
[11:52] <seb128> but at least it's not buggy in the default install
[11:52] <didrocks> seb128: right, next time, I'll back up my /var/crash
[11:52] <didrocks> and remove one by one
[11:52] <seb128> so unity crashes should be notified
[11:52] <didrocks> yeah
[11:56] <pitti> ah, our gtk+3.0 gir is broken; /me debugs
[13:52] <seb128> mvo, do we still need restart notification is update-notifier?
[13:52] <seb128> since indicator-session and update-manager handle those nowadays
[13:54] <mvo> seb128: please keep it for now, its useful for e.g. xfce and similar derivates
[13:54] <mvo> seb128: but ideally the old u-n would just get forked and a new one based on just a bunch of scrips created, the goal was to have a session upstart instead of update-notifier
[13:54] <mvo> seb128: not sure how the future looks like here
[13:57] <seb128> mvo, well, one thing at the time, the current issue is that unity has no systray support
[13:57] <mvo> yes
[13:57] <mvo> sure :)
[13:57] <seb128> mvo, ideally we would drop notification icon use for restart, or buggy apt state
[13:57] <mvo> I was just outlining what I would like to see in the far future
[13:58] <mvo> basicly old update-notifier without autolaunch for projects that want it
[13:58] <seb128> the only case where I can see useful now is for apport bugs which are not from the current user
[13:58] <mvo> and a new session-daemon that does all the autolaunching
[13:58] <mvo> right
[13:58] <mvo> in our current model it does not make that much sense
[13:58] <pitti> we also currnetly abuse it to launch jockey on missing firmware
[13:58] <seb128> I'm not sure what to do now
[13:59] <pitti> but I agree that neither the apport nor jockey case are truly fitting into u-n
[13:59] <seb128> things like the broken update status icon don't fit in the indicator
[13:59] <seb128> or the restart icon
[13:59] <seb128> I'm pondering not bothering and let those this way
[13:59] <seb128> they will just not show up on unity
[14:00] <mvo> I had a plan about this last cycle
[14:00] <seb128> which was?
[14:00] <mvo> but then the idea to use upstart in session mode came up
[14:00] <seb128> or is? ;-)
[14:00] <mvo> to split update-notifier into the old notification icon stuff
[14:00] <pitti> mvo: does that already work?
[14:00] <mvo> and a new one
[14:01] <mvo> pitti: no, I talked to scott and he said its striaghtforward
[14:01] <seb128> pitti, did upstart change last cycle?
[14:01] <mvo> and he has some ideas
[14:01] <pitti> seb128: not really
[14:01] <seb128> pitti, so I guess "no"
[14:01] <seb128> that was discuss in brussels but nothing happened
[14:01] <seb128> discussed
[14:01] <pitti> seb128: yeah, I meant "in that secret branch that Keybuk mentioned", or "newer version" or so
[14:01] <mvo> well …
[14:01] <seb128> pitti, I would like Keybuk to reply to your email for that
[14:02] <mvo> anyway, I decided not to waste time working on it on the basis that upstart would replace my work anyway
[14:02] <pitti> mvo: but upstart also doesn't have file based triggers yet, AFAIK
[14:02] <mvo> but in the current circumstance I may reconsider
[14:02] <mvo> right
[14:02] <seb128> mvo, ok, so what do you want me to do
[14:02] <pitti> i. e. we cannot run an action if /var/crash or /var/run/reboot-required changes, etc.
[14:02] <seb128> I was going to port it to appindicator
[14:03] <seb128> but it doesn't really fit for some of the things
[14:03] <mvo> seb128: maybe just auto-launch a dialog ?
[14:03] <mvo> so that there is no "give me your password" in your face dialog
[14:03] <seb128> hum
[14:03] <seb128> but we don't want that on Ubuntu though
[14:03] <seb128> mvo, well I can port the apport case to appindicator
[14:04] <seb128> I'm just not sure what to do with the warning about apt being in a weird state
[14:04] <seb128> or the restart case
[14:04] <mvo> don't worry about those
[14:04] <mvo> the restart one is handled inline anyway
[14:04] <seb128> well they can't be easily ported to appindicator
[14:04] <mvo> and the "apt is odd" we should handle via autolaunch
[14:04] <seb128> you don't want to drop those because if xubuntu
[14:04] <seb128> if -> og
[14:04] <mvo> well, they will just not appear :)
[14:04] <seb128> of
[14:04] <seb128> so you wan to have both a status icon and an indicator?
[14:05] <mvo> actually, let me just sit down and look at the code and I may actually just FDI, all I need is a bunch of inotiy hooks and some scripts
[14:05] <mvo> (famous last word ;)
[14:06] <seb128> lol
[14:06] <seb128> I didn't want to get you to do it
[14:06] <mvo> *arg* worst bug in unity evah! my clock is showing 3:05 instead of 15:05
[14:07] <seb128> seems texans and european can't agree on time format
[14:07] <mvo> right, that is fine, there LC_TIME for tihs
[14:07] <seb128> (there is a bug with discussion with pitti ted and some others about the issue)
[14:07] <seb128> well ted seems to think that's an hackish way to deal with it
[14:08] <mvo> I'm puzzled what there is to discuss "honor LC_TIME, kthnxbye"
[14:08] <seb128> I think the format is in the translations at the moment
[14:08] <pitti> (as if that wasn't a hack :) )
[14:08] <seb128> well the discussion is on how to do it so it doesn't rely on translators
[14:08] <pitti> unfortunately there is no truly clean way to ask the locale "do you use 24 or 12 hours?"
[14:08] <pitti> seb128: we already figured that out
[14:08] <seb128> pitti, so what was stopping proper support?
[14:08] <seb128> like asking the locale?
[14:09] <seb128> rather than using a translation
[14:09] <pitti> seb128: just that ted doesn't like the solution
[14:09] <seb128> distro patch it? :-)
[14:09] <mvo> isn't strftime() doing the right thing on its own?
[14:09]  * mvo looks at the manpage
[14:09] <seb128> mvo, well the issue comes when you want options to display seconds or not
[14:09] <pitti> mvo: only with seconds
[14:09] <seb128> mvo, or days or not
[14:10] <seb128> if that was just the time it would be fine
[14:10] <seb128> but some people want the day displayed, some don't want the seconds, etc
[14:10] <seb128> then you don't have an easy api to tell me "give the time in 24 hours format without the seconds"
[14:10] <mvo> geh, so what is gnome-panel doing then? it seems to be jsut fine
[14:11] <seb128> they use translations as well
[14:11] <mvo>  bää
[14:11] <pitti> mvo: bug 652976  FYI
[14:11] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 652976 in indicator-datetime (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Time format not taken from LC_TIME (affects: 2) (heat: 67)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/652976
[14:11] <seb128> they have the strftime options in a string
[14:11] <pitti> that explains how to detect this
[14:15] <bcurtiswx_> nautilus crash cured in 2.91.3 woo
[14:16] <seb128> great
[14:17] <bcurtiswx_> but
[14:17] <bcurtiswx_> now im seeing nautilus works, but when I try to double click my desktop from /home/bcurtis it temp crashes it
[14:18] <bcurtiswx_> also my ubuntu one shared/syncd folder
[14:19] <bcurtiswx_> oh nautilus, why must you hate me
[14:22] <seb128> it's likely because those still use gtk2 and install a .so for nautilus
[14:22] <seb128> which is on gtk3
[14:22] <seb128> there is a reason this work is in a ppa and not in natty ;-)
[14:22] <bcurtiswx_> ah OK, granted it would be a lot more frustrating if i didn't know how to navigate linux through a terminal...
[14:23] <bcurtiswx_> yeah, i was fully aware of the "fun" i'd have by using the PPA..
[14:28] <bcurtiswx_> autoremove has dkms, i would imagine removing this to be a no no
[14:29] <pitti> bcurtiswx_: why? if you don't have any nvidia/fglrx/wl drivers installed, you don't need it?
[14:29] <bcurtiswx_> pitti, ah since i'm using the open source versions i don't.. good point..
[14:30] <bcurtiswx_> safe assumption if i use them dkms will install itself
[14:30] <pitti> dependencies FTW :)
[14:30] <bcurtiswx_> survey says.. :) thx
[14:56] <rodrigo_> ugh, after updating gtk3, all my apps crash
[14:59] <pitti> rodrigo_: oh, are you preparing a new gtk+3.0 upload?
[14:59] <rodrigo_> pitti, no
[14:59] <rodrigo_> pitti, just updated this afternoon the package that was in natty
[14:59] <pitti> hm, works here
[14:59] <rodrigo_> but I guess we might need a new GTK?
[15:00] <rodrigo_> g-c-c crashes on size_request calls
[15:00] <pitti> but I have been tracking down why the Gdk gir is broken for the last 3 hours
[15:00] <pitti> (ugh)
[15:00] <pitti> and I'd like to fix that in the next upload
[15:00] <rodrigo_> well, gtk_widget_size_allocate
[15:00] <rodrigo_> oh, is it broken?
[15:01] <pitti> yes, it's missing all the glib:type-name attributes
[15:01] <pitti> gnome bug  636043
[15:01] <ubot2> Gnome bug 636043 in introspection "Combining multiple Gdk.WMFunction flags gives TypeError" [Minor,Resolved: invalid] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=636043
[15:01] <rodrigo_> ah
[15:01] <pitti> and it's a PITA to debug
[15:01] <rodrigo_> yeah
[15:01] <pitti> it works if I unpack the orig.tar.gz, configure, make
[15:02] <pitti> but is broken when I build the package
[15:02] <pitti> (i. e. same pygobject, gi, etc.)
[15:02] <rodrigo_> weird
[16:14] <pitti> \o/ I finally got it, and it only took 4 hours
[16:15]  * ari-tczew has leaved gnome for kde.
[16:15] <mterry> pitti, yay!
[16:30] <rodrigo_> pitti, the gir thing?
[16:32] <pitti> rodrigo_: right; fixes pushed to bzr now
[16:32] <pitti> will upload after a1
[16:32] <rodrigo_> pitti, so, what was it?
[16:32] <pitti> rodrigo_: I followed up in gnome bug 636043
[16:32] <ubot2> Gnome bug 636043 in general "When using a separate build tree, GIR has incomplete type information" [Minor,New] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=636043
[16:32] <pitti> apparently it's using the wrong gdkenumtypes.h
[16:33] <pitti> I still don't understand it fully
[16:33] <pitti> at least now I know where the root cause is, but not yet why
[16:33] <pitti> but I got half of the fix attached to the upstream bug
[16:33] <pitti> and a workaround in bzr now
[16:34] <rodrigo_> cool
[16:34] <seb128> it's likely due to build out of srcdir
[16:34] <seb128> (I didn't read the bug)
[16:35] <pitti> seb128: that was half of the problem, yes
[16:35] <pitti> which I attached a patch for
[16:35] <pitti> ok, good night everyone!
[16:36] <seb128> 'night pitti
[16:36] <seb128> pitti, you can probably upload, I guess we will not respin isos now
[16:36] <seb128> so it builds over night?
[16:36] <seb128> pitti, btw I've a day off tomorrow so don't worry if I'm not around
[16:36] <pitti> seb128: ok, sure
[16:37] <pitti> seb128: hm, well, I'll have another look at this tomorrow
[16:37] <pitti> I'd really like to figure out the root cause
[16:37] <seb128> ok
[16:37] <pitti> otherwise this could hit us with other packages as well
[16:38] <pitti> but my brain is steaming now
[16:38] <pitti> (and my wife returned from work, too :) )
[16:38] <seb128> pitti, enjoy your evening!
[16:38] <pitti> seb128: and you!
[16:38] <pitti> seb128: enjoy your holiday
[16:38] <seb128> thanks
[16:39]  * chrisccoulson really needs to book some holiday too
[16:39] <didrocks> have a good evening pitti
[16:39] <rodrigo_> bye pitti
[16:39] <rodrigo_> seb128, national holiday tomorrow, or just a day off?
[16:40] <seb128> rodrigo_, day off, I've quite some to take still before end of the year
[16:41] <rodrigo_> ah, right, you told me
[16:41] <rodrigo_> I'm off also tomorrow, and Monday, for national holidays :)
[16:42] <rodrigo_> I was wondering if France had the same # of national holidays as Spain, but I see you are still a productive country :-D
[16:43] <seb128> lol
[16:43] <seb128> rodrigo_, enjoy your days off then ;-)
[16:43] <rodrigo_> I will, yes :)
[16:45] <geser> what I'm missing that my gnome-panel doesn't get started anymore in natty?
[16:45] <seb128> it's not supposed to since unity has its own bar
[16:46] <seb128> bar and launcher
[16:46] <seb128> you can pick the GNOME classic session in gdm if you want a GNOME session
[16:46] <geser> what will auto-login pick?
[16:46] <seb128> whatever you selected in gdmsetup
[16:46] <seb128> default is unity
[16:46] <seb128> did you desactive unity in ccsm?
[16:47] <geser> I've no compiz or unity installed (I'm using the free radeon driver)
[16:47] <seb128> you are uptodate with compiz?
[16:48] <seb128> oh, it's not installed
[16:48] <seb128> hum, I guess that's a bug then
[16:48] <seb128> not sure we considered the case where it's not installed
[16:48] <didrocks> what unity with no compiz?
[16:48] <seb128> it does the fallbacking correctly when installed
[16:48]  * didrocks checks the package
[16:48] <seb128> didrocks, no, he doesn't have unity or compiz
[16:48] <didrocks> oh "or"
[16:49] <geser> would compiz or unity work without the non-free ATI driver?
[16:49] <didrocks> ok, yeah, that's written that won't work for A1
[16:49] <didrocks> in the TechnicalOverview
[16:49] <seb128> geser, they should
[16:49] <didrocks> will get fixed for A2
[16:49] <Sarvatt> geser: as long as you don't have a HD 6xxx series it would yeah
[16:50] <geser> then I'll try it out; I've an older HD 3870
[17:27] <lifeless> cyphermox: hi
[17:27] <lifeless> Sarvatt: and hi - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/modemmanager/+bug/683996 - sometimes it finds the right port, sometimes it doesn't : I've put a log showing the different probe activity in the bug.
[17:27] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 683996 in modemmanager (Ubuntu) "NO CARRIER error vodafone K3571-Z ZTE 3g modem (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New]
[17:27] <lifeless> sometimes is clearly better than never though :)
[17:34] <cyphermox> lifeless, thanks. I'll get to the fixes you need soon, right now I'm tackling some other issues in NM
[17:35] <cyphermox> definitely something I want to commit to the packaging branch today :)
[17:37] <cyphermox> if it's not always working there is probably another rule somewhere that break the detection
[17:37] <cyphermox> lifeless, ^
[17:37] <cyphermox> though it could be something straight in the zte / option plugin in MM code
[17:40] <lifeless> yeah
[17:40] <lifeless> the port != -1 assertion seems an interesting thing to poke into
[17:42] <cyphermox> yep
[18:00] <pitti> dpm: seems there wasn't actually a maverick export since a week -- https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/+language-packs has the most recent export on 1124, which is in the PPA already
[18:00]  * pitti -> off again (just a quick drive-by)
[18:01] <dpm> pitti, bummer - thanks for the heads up!, I'll talk to the Launchpad guys tomorrow
[18:03] <dpm> I'll request a full export
[18:17] <geser> does compiz work on a dual-screen setup (with fglrx)?
[18:20] <dobey> geser: youtube would suggest so, but i have a hard time getting it to work right on one screen right now :(
[18:30] <geser> that would match my expierence: I've been using the free radeon driver till now and wanted to try unity (with fglrx) but without much success; I'm back to the radeon driver for now
[18:46] <dobey> geser: i think compiz itself is having issues atm in narwhal. at least, it is simply segfaulting on me when i try to run it now. not sure if it's compiz or the drivers, but it is pain. i'm on nvidia though
[18:46] <cyphermox> lifeless, did you end up installing that bcm package from betavine?
[18:48] <geser> dobey: it segfaults for me too
[18:52] <lifeless> cyphermox: no
[18:52] <lifeless> cyphermox: hell no
[18:52] <lifeless> cyphermox: I just poked around at the code
[18:52] <cyphermox> hehe ;)
[18:52] <lifeless> cyphermox: there's other stuff in rev 608
[18:52] <cyphermox> alright, and when you added the udev rules, did you use MM_ZTE_PORT_TYPE or just MM_PORT_TYPE?
[18:53] <lifeless> I just copied their lines
[18:53] <lifeless> as I put in the bug description
[18:53] <cyphermox> ah, I misread then
[18:53] <lifeless> # K3570-Z
[18:53] <lifeless> ATTRS{idVendor}=="19d2", ATTRS{idProduct}=="1008", ENV{.MM_USBIFNUM}=="03", ENV{ID_MM_PORT_TYPE_MODEM}="1"
[18:53] <lifeless> ATTRS{idVendor}=="19d2", ATTRS{idProduct}=="1008", ENV{.MM_USBIFNUM}=="01", ENV{ID_MM_PORT_TYPE_AUX}="1"
[18:53] <lifeless> # K3571-Z
[18:53] <lifeless> ATTRS{idVendor}=="19d2", ATTRS{idProduct}=="1010", ENV{.MM_USBIFNUM}=="03", ENV{ID_MM_PORT_TYPE_MODEM}="1"
[18:53] <lifeless> ATTRS{idVendor}=="19d2", ATTRS{idProduct}=="1010", ENV{.MM_USBIFNUM}=="01", ENV{ID_MM_PORT_TYPE_AUX}="1"
[18:54] <lifeless> oh, I see - we have a tweaked name
[18:54] <lifeless> testing
[18:57] <lifeless> that worked
[18:58] <lifeless> I've noted that in the bug description - thanks.
[18:58] <cyphermox> lifeless, seems all good for now?
[18:59] <lifeless> yeah it didn't do all the crazy probing
[18:59] <lifeless> its still not perfect
[18:59] <lifeless> bit that may be mm in general
[19:01] <cyphermox> ok. I'll start to prepare these changes
[19:01] <lifeless> I've added a log with the _ZTE in the rules so you can see if there is anything odd remaining
[19:02] <cyphermox> ok, great
[19:47] <kiwinote> mvo: thanks for the merge - I pushed another fix a few seconds ago - it *should* work nicely, but it would be great if you could test it
[19:56] <mvo> kiwinote: thanks, will do
[19:57] <dobey> geser: hrmm, after latest updates to narwhal, compiz is back, though my settings got smashed AGAIN :-/
[20:00] <mvo> kiwinote: it looks fine
[20:00] <mvo> kiwinote: thanks :)
[20:00] <kiwinote> mvo: sweet, thanks :)
[20:05] <bcurtiswx_> i have a diff error of expected [ +-] at start of line 150 of diff
[20:05] <bcurtiswx_> what should I be looking for to fix that?
[20:08] <bcurtiswx_> patch: **** malformed patch at line 150: @@ -26,6 +28,7 @@
[20:08] <bcurtiswx_> that @@ section looks like the rest of them (as far as characters being in the right places
[20:09] <micahg> bcurtiswx_: are you manually editing the diff?
[20:11] <bcurtiswx_> yes
[20:11] <bcurtiswx_> micahg, ^^
[20:11] <micahg> bcurtiswx_: don't do that :P
[20:12] <micahg> bcurtiswx_: check to make sure the offsets add up including what's above the patch
[20:12] <bcurtiswx_> micahg, that confuses me
[20:13] <micahg> bcurtiswx_: if you have multiple patches for the same file (not in the same file), you need to make sure the later patches are offset based on changes you make in earlier patches
[20:14] <geser> bcurtiswx_: be carefull when editing patches, especially when adding or removing lines
[20:14] <bcurtiswx_> is there a better way to go about editing them.. it's just been adding and removing lines that are or aren't there anymore so far..
[20:15] <micahg> bcurtiswx_: edit-patch
[20:15] <micahg> if it's quilt based, use the quilt tools
[20:16] <geser> bcurtiswx_: removing whole chunks is safe; if you add or remove lines don't forget to also update the numbers in the @@ line for that chunk
[20:16] <bcurtiswx_> geser, the quilt push -f shows offsets and aftee i've fixed lines i refresh the patch
[20:16] <bcurtiswx_> after*
[20:17] <bcurtiswx_> i am using quilt
[20:17] <bcurtiswx_> thats how seb128 has taught me so far.. lol
[20:17] <geser> that the better way than manually editing patch files
[20:18] <bcurtiswx_> i quilt push -f until one fails.. go in and edit (add remove lines) until its fixed.. then refresh the patch
[20:18] <bcurtiswx_> are there more tools past that , that I should be using ?
[20:22] <hallyn_> I like the screen consolidation of having the terminal menubar up top.  However, with the new unity floating desktop, that can make it hard to get up to the terminal menubar, bc if the cursor goes over say a firefox on the way to the top of the screen, you lose the menubar at top.
[20:22] <hallyn_> just curious, has that been discussed?
[20:22] <bcurtiswx_> geser, so like @@ -26,6 +28,7 @@  what do each of those stand for
[20:23] <bcurtiswx_> 26 is the line number of where the patch _should_ start
[20:23] <bcurtiswx_> the ,6 i don't know
[20:23] <bcurtiswx_> column number?
[20:25] <geser> no, the chunk spans 6 lines (in the "original" file)
[20:25] <geser> and in the "patched" file the chunk starts at line 28 and covers 7 lines
[20:26] <bcurtiswx_> geser, much more understood now.. thx :)
[20:34] <bcurtiswx_> seb128, i can't install nautilus-sendto and i need it for the new empathy
[20:44] <bcurtiswx_> whats the command line call to bring up sound preferences.. the GUI isn't working
[20:47] <cyphermox> hallyn_, do you use mouse-over focus?
[20:47] <hallyn_> hm, yes i do
[20:47] <hallyn_> (though it mostly doesn't seem to work right now - i still have to click a window befor i can click its button)
[20:48] <cyphermox> hallyn_, that's probably why you're having issues, I don't think that has use case has been thought about so much.
[20:48] <cyphermox> hallyn_, please, open a bug about it, I'm sure there is some way to work around that
[20:50] <hallyn_> cyphermox: against what project?
[20:50] <cyphermox> hallyn_, I'd say unity. not too sure :/
[20:50] <hallyn_> thanks
[21:39] <KwikkSilva> hey all
[21:40] <KwikkSilva> I managed to get the ASUS N13 Wirless N adapter working on my machine - it only works at 54g though... any ideas? I'v ebeen al through the forums
[21:44] <cyphermox> KwikkSilva, you should ask on #ubuntu. that said, I suspect the driver may not support N yet.
[21:44] <KwikkSilva> thats what i thought.. is there any N-capable card you could recommend?
[21:46] <cyphermox> I don't have enough experience with N hardware to recommend any
[22:17] <jcastro> do we have a page that outlines the GNOME SRU process?
[22:17] <jcastro> or does the generic SRU page cover it?
[22:21] <robert_ancell> jcastro, I've never found a document that explicitly says it
[23:57] <andersk> oddentity points out in bug 336932 that you can reveal the contents of any Ubuntu user’s locked screen just by plugging in a USB memory stick.
[23:57] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 336932 in compiz (Ubuntu) "New windows cause panels to be raised above fullscreen applications (e.g. screensaver) (affects: 3) (dups: 1) (heat: 22)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/336932
[23:57] <andersk> This seems like a very serious privacy breach.