[14:09] <twayneprice> wrst: Are you ready to enlist? :)   http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2013/04/tennessee-georgia-war/all/
[14:12] <wrst> ha ha twayneprice never did care for georgia ;)


 arraybolt3: 365days+ uptime without reboot
 it happens
[03:24] <arraybolt3> #GoodGrief
[03:24] <arraybolt3> Guess you get that luxury when you have Livepatch :P
 yup
 Remember that one time when our entire infra was accidentally wiped? :P (re @kc2bez: Chaotic Evil)
 full ack thank you for doing this (re @teward001: I will be shutting down and rebooting the server that runs Discourse and a bunch of our sites and services.  This is a requisite reboot because we are at 99% swap usage, which is never a Good Thing(TM) so, gonna fix it.)
 zzzZzzZzz
 looking and providing ack too, ta (re @Eickmeyer: @tsimonq2 Uploaded. Covers 2 SRUs. LP: #2039497 and LP: #2039492)
[03:44] -ubottu:#lubuntu-devel- Launchpad bug 2039497 in plasma-distro-release-notifier (Ubuntu) "[SRU] plasma-distro-release-notifier looks at incorrect release" [High, In Progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2039497
[03:44] -ubottu:#lubuntu-devel- Launchpad bug 2039492 in plasma-distro-release-notifier (Ubuntu) "[SRU] plasma-distro-release-notifier gets EOL data from git.launchpad.net" [High, In Progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2039492
 https://matterbridge.lubuntu.me/207bd934/file_10008.jpg
 Add that to a Lubuntu t-shirt, throw my hackergotchi on top 🤣
 /me opens lubuntu spreadshirt shop 😂
 @tsimonq2 We'll get the DEP-3 headers on the next upload in nn. I'm not too concerned about stuff that's going to EOL in 2024.
[04:18] <arraybolt3> btw when does the nn archive open?
[04:20] <Eickmeyer> A week or two?  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[04:20] <Eickmeyer> Usually needs a name first.
 Cool cool (re @Eickmeyer: @tsimonq2 We'll get the DEP-3 headers on the next upload in nn. I'm not too concerned about stuff that's going to EOL in 2024.)
 Oh boy. That was some fun times. XD (re @tsimonq2: Remember that one time when our entire infra was accidentally wiped? :P)
 @Eickmeyer pump the breaks on your SRU there if you can
 I woke up to like a dozen code comments from sitter :)
 And they're *good* ones too! I'm really impressed (and thankful for the opportunity to learn from him)
 Just woke up, but pumping brakes? Everything is uploaded and in queue.
 That is why I added sitter as reviewer :) (re @tsimonq2: And they're *good* ones too! I'm really impressed (and thankful for the opportunity to learn from him))
 So, pumping the breaks means asking them to reject it in favor of a better patch ;) (re @Eickmeyer: Just woke up, but pumping brakes? Everything is uploaded and in queue.)
 Also, Version Numbers Are Cheap ™
 I'll have that done today, along with l-u-n. Stuff happens, precaution is the default with that stuff anyway :)
 Plus, @RikMills made some good points about Neon-specific goodies
 They were never accepted, so reject request done.
 Thank you very much Erich, sorry for the churn :)
 The neon-specific stuff was patched?
 (long ago)
 Not that specifically :) the code comments from Neon about them using neon.csv
 Oh.
 https://invent.kde.org/system/distro-release-notifier/-/merge_requests/6
[14:14] -ubottu:#lubuntu-devel- Merge 6 in system/distro-release-notifier "Instead of using a remote service, query distro-info-data" [Opened]
 Ah.
 Well, for their purposes, IDC.
 He doesn't have a high opinion of me after the Flatpak debacle.
 So, with regards to https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/ubuntu-merchandise-store/39324/ I was going through each flavor's stores and noticed that https://lubuntu.creator-spring.com/ is completely empty?
[18:17] <arraybolt3> Noticed that last cycle (maybe even the one before that?).
 I think I removed that from the website, hopefully you aren't seeing it there. (re @Eickmeyer: So, with regards to https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/ubuntu-merchandise-store/39324/ I was going through each flavor's stores and noticed that https://lubuntu.creator-spring.com/ is completely empty?)
 Sadly, that's how I got the link. (re @kc2bez: I think I removed that from the website, hopefully you aren't seeing it there.)
 Ah, I guess I have to look into that. It would be nice if someone took the mantle on the merchant stuff but I am not sure anyone has the bandwidth for that right now.
 Yeah. The merch stuff for Ubuntu Studio and Edubuntu is relatively easy for me without too much hassle, but the initial setup took hours.
 Which store are you using?
 Spreadshirt
 Thanks, that is good information.
 No prob.


[04:29] <rockhopper> Hi, how can i add a device in my ubuntu one account?
[04:30] <rockhopper> I can't find the add this device button on one.ubuntu.com/account page
[04:31] <rockhopper> anyone?
[04:46] <AJenbo> rockhopper, is it a phone?
[04:47] <rockhopper> No, Its a netbook!
[04:47] <AJenbo> then you add it from the netbook it self
[04:47] <rockhopper> I already got account on ubuntu, when i login, i can't find the add this compter button
[04:47] <rockhopper> How to do that?
[04:47] <AJenbo> Open Ubuntu one on it and login, that all you need to do.
[04:48] <AJenbo> What version of Ubuntu do you have installed on the netbook?
[04:48] <rockhopper> UNR 10.04
[04:48] <rockhopper> I don't have a login link it the ubuntu one app
[04:48] <AJenbo> System-settings-ubuntu one
[04:48] <AJenbo> manage account
[04:49] <rockhopper> when i click manage account, a webpage opens
[04:49] <AJenbo> yes
[04:50] <AJenbo> log in to it
[04:50] <rockhopper> But there's no add this device button in that page
[04:50] <AJenbo> well you don't need to press a add this button
[04:50] <rockhopper> Yes, I've logged in
[04:50] <rockhopper> then?
[04:51] <AJenbo> Some times the login process can mess up, try rebooting and then optning the U1 client again
[04:51] <AJenbo> I have had computeres where i had to do it 3 times because it failed the frist time.
[04:52] <AJenbo> *first
[04:52] <rockhopper> Oh!
[04:52] <rockhopper> ok brb I'll try rebooting
[04:52] <AJenbo> The login process should be a lot better in the next version, it will be released in 20 dayes
[04:59] <rockhopper> ok thanks AJenbo, i got it workind
[08:43] <mandel_> morning!
[10:49] <lubuntu_userrrr> Hi. Why the ubuntu_one developers chose the client to depend on erlang, rather than drop such kind of dependency?
[11:26] <rye> lubuntu_userrrr, erlang is brought by couchdb which is used by desktopcouch to provide contacts and bookmarks synchronization (when servers are brought up again after the team makes sure that it won't stop a) crashing (fixed), b) working oauth at all times (fixed) c) proper SSL connection (hangs now)
[11:31] <lubuntu_userrrr> rye: 10z for the answer. Erlang is a powerful choice, but wouldn't creating simpler straight-for-the-job solution a) boost the performance as of memory and cpu usage; b) save spce on the livecd; c) make the ubuntu-one client more portable?
[11:32] <jan____> lubuntu_userrrr: a) sync is hard, reimplementing is not at all trivial b) erlang is very lightweight, we run it on android phones in CPU/RAM/Disk requirements. c) it is very portable already
[11:34] <lubuntu_userrrr> rye: I am asking such questions because I am making a research for deploying ubuntu into my company (really-really small company) and ubuntu-one seems useful since there are no privacy and trade secrets involved.
[11:35] <jan____> lubuntu_userrrr: sounds cool, if you have any questions on the CouchDB-related part, I can help
[11:37] <duanedesign> morning all
[11:37] <lubuntu_userrrr> jan____: Since natty goals are going to be decided a few months from would it be a lie if I write that desktopcouch (=>couchdb) solution for backing up system and certain programs' settings (mainly interested in firefox and openoffice) is planned for ubuntu-one in 11.04?
[11:39] <duanedesign> lubuntu_userrrr: their are apps available now that cah do such things. I have an application Stipple which uses plugins to backup application settings to couchdb
[11:39] <jan____> lubuntu_userrrr: I can't comment on the plans of Ubuntu itself, I just work on CouchDB
[11:39] <lubuntu_userrrr> jan____: I think about recommending ubuntu_one as a real alternative for backing up non-priovate and non-trade-secrets like information and cutting down the costs for second backup company.
[11:40] <duanedesign> lubuntu_userrrr: the plugins are trivial to write. Meaning adding new applications are easy to add
[11:40] <jan____> lubuntu_userrrr: oh yeah, that sounds like a good idea
[11:41] <duanedesign> lubuntu_userrrr: https://launchpad.net/stipple <--we willl have a deb for it when couch replication gets going again
[11:44] <lubuntu_userrrr> duanedesign, jan____ : As far az i have read, ubuntu_one plugins for backup purposes are considered relative easy to write (and relatively cheap :-) ), but the support from a company that has good reputation (like Canonical or the Apache foundation for ex.) is considered a definite plus by the management.
[11:45] <duanedesign> lubuntu_userrrr: writing plugins for Stipple are easy to do.
[11:46] <duanedesign> lubuntu_userrrr: not that writing an application to take advantage of Ubuntu One and Couch are hard
[11:47] <lubuntu_userrrr> duanedesign: I am definitely going to propose "Striple" integration as a good alternative.
[11:47] <jan____> lubuntu_userrrr: sounds sensible
[11:48] <duanedesign> lubuntu_userrrr: I know Ubuntu has plans for an addition to maverick called OneConf. At the moment though the only concrete plans are syncing list of installed applications. I think at this UDS they might be discussing further additions
[11:51] <lubuntu_userrrr> duanedesign, jan____ : What is your opinion - are there any possible benefits from ubuntu_one besides the backing up of contacts, documents, system and programs' settings?
[11:51] <kklimonda> it doesn't brew coffee if that's what you are asking :/
[11:52] <kklimonda> good morning
[11:52] <duanedesign> lubuntu_userrrr: the integration with the Ubuntu desktop, I think, is a big plus U1 has that other soltions dont.
[11:52] <lubuntu_userrrr> :-D
[11:52] <jan____> yeah, I really wish it'd brew coffee
[11:52] <duanedesign> +1
[11:52] <kklimonda> duanedesign:any idea who is responsible for the OneConf?
[11:52] <duanedesign> yes
[11:52] <lubuntu_userrrr> If U1 brew coffee and made cakes, I would have married her :-D
[11:53] <kklimonda> lol
[11:53] <duanedesign> kklimonda: [d]idrocks is who I have been corresponding with on that project
[11:54] <kklimonda> ok, I'll ping him when i have time. thanks.
[11:54] <lubuntu_userrrr> duanedesign: jan____ : 10x for the answers.
[13:13] <j0nr> hi all. I am displaying some info from a mysql db by querying and echo'ing it into some html. What I intend to do, server side, is use html2fpdf to convert he html page into a downloadable pdf. The way I thought I could tackle this is by wget'ing the html page to get the html code. My problem is that I have a password protection on the pages, so unless I have logged in I just wget the 'you need to log in page'
[13:16] <duanedesign> hello j0nr
[13:18] <j0nr> hello duanedesign
[13:19] <duanedesign> their are --user and --password options for wget
[13:21] <duanedesign> j0nr: so maybe something like: wget --http-user=vivek --http-password=Secrete http://website.com
[13:22] <j0nr> duanedesign: hmm ill try
[13:27] <rye> j0nr, that will work only if it is HTTP authorization, if you have some session-based auth then you will need to look at the cookie you've got (e.g. by using firebug) and then supply it as --header "Cookie:  ..." value
[13:55] <j0nr> rye: that is what I have, a session based simple php script
[13:56] <j0nr> amlooking at just creating a temp file of the output of the php function, so it generates html for the browser and writes it to file, which I can then process
[13:58] <j0nr> I seem to be going wrong somewhere with my HEREDOC syntax: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/264855/
[14:02] <j0nr> oh bugger...I'm sorry I've been posting in the wrong channel!
[14:02]  * popey thought this
[14:02] <popey> :)
[14:02] <rye> j0nr, :)
[14:03] <j0nr> :)
[14:05]  * rye has just read the original question
[18:28] <duanedesign> off for a bit, everyone have a great afternoon
[22:31] <j0nr> I bought some music in the ubuntuone music store. it is in my rythymbox library, but where is it on my hard drive? Its not in my ubuntuone folder
[22:31] <kklimonda> j0nr: $HOME/.ubuntuone afair
[22:32] <j0nr> why .ubuntuone not just ubuntuone
[22:32] <duffydack> thats one feature I can live without..it should be in your designated music folder, complete with artist/album name from id tags,
[22:33] <duffydack> but thats just me.
[22:33] <kklimonda> duffydack: it's impossible to do that right now
[22:33] <duffydack> thats fair enough.. just wish it wasnt so .hidden though.
[22:34] <kklimonda> what I'd like to be able to do is edit music metadata without U1 deciding I have removed file. Or maybe it's rename?
[22:35] <rye> duffydack, basically it is UDF and since all UDF have to be at the same place everywhere to be synced without hacks it was created as a hidden folder to let you disable that UDF if you don't need that on some of your machines


[12:17] <nixternal> mdke, if you are still awake, i have done the aboutkubuntu translation, up to last step under "step 3", the makefile. there are 7 new dir/files (ku, ms, be, he, hi, ta, is) listed with ?, which in this case means they aren't in svn yet, and I fixed a simple error with the "it" translation .xml
[12:19] <nixternal> mdke: i see the "Makefile" for about:  ../build/kubuntu/about-kubuntu/ and so on, this is where I add the new translations..now once all this is done, do i create a diff and email it?
[12:29] <nixternal> mdke: http://buntudot.org/people/~nixternal/docs/aboutkubuntu_translation.xml.diff
[01:12] <Burgwork> mdke, you still up?
[01:54] <LaserJock> Burgwork: I think it might be a little late (or early) for him yet
[01:55] <Burgwork> LaserJock, it is just on midnight there
[01:55] <Burgwork> am I going to see you at ubucon?
[01:57] <LaserJock> yes
[01:57] <LaserJock> I'm up for 2 talks perhaps
[01:57] <LaserJock> one on contributing to Ubuntu and the other on Launchpad and other Ubuntu tools
[01:58] <LaserJock> I'm hoping they actually find somebody qualified (like a LP dev) to do the second one :-)
[01:59] <Burgwork> right
[01:59] <Burgwork> so far I have escaped giving any talks
[02:00] <LaserJock> well, I went to the organizational meeting
[02:00] <LaserJock> heh
[02:00] <LaserJock> so they were looking around for MOTUs and I was the only one present :-)
[02:00] <Burgwork> right, that was the one I missed
[02:01] <Burgwork> I miss most meetings, as I hate them
[02:01] <bimberi> @now london
[02:01] <Ubugtu> Current time in Europe/London: August 10 2006, 01:01:49
[02:03] <bimberi> fact of life: if you turn up to meetings you find leave with tasks :)
[02:04] <bimberi> s/find //
[02:04] <LaserJock> sure, I kinda figured
[04:08] <jsgotangco> interesting freespire has codecs
[04:08] <jsgotangco> seems to be more of a knee jerk reaction to say hey we got more and we're giving it free now
[04:10] <nixternal> heh
[04:11] <nixternal> jsgotangco: are you familiar with doing doc translations, dl'n them from Rosetta, running translate.sh on them and what not?
[04:11] <jsgotangco> there was an email on that no?
[04:11] <nixternal> ya, i was working with mdke on it..as i have the kubuntu docs completed, well as far as i can tell
[04:12] <nixternal> actually, i have a lot of manual fixes yet to do for the desktop guide, but i complete the aboutkubuntu ones
[04:12] <nixternal> i received 7 or so ? when i did svn status.   the ? are referenced to new translation directories that aren't on svn
[04:13] <jsgotangco> ahh i dont delve too much on the translations, i have too much stuff to do already
[04:13] <nixternal> hehe
[04:13] <nixternal> didn't know if you did them in the past or not..im anxious to see if i did them right
[04:13] <jsgotangco> mdke is the current authority for that
[04:13] <nixternal> i got all of the xml validation errors fixed, and created the patch
[04:13] <jsgotangco> you dont have svn access yet?
[04:13] <nixternal> not yet
[04:14] <nixternal> i want to make sure what i did is correct first
[04:14] <nixternal> http://buntudot.org/people/~nixternal/docs/
[04:14] <nixternal> aboutkubuntu_translations.xml.patch is what i created
[04:15] <nixternal> svn diff > blahfdlajfda.xml.patch after doing the fixes and what not, and fixed the makefile as well
[04:15] <nixternal> just have to be patient for about another 5 hours ;)
[04:15] <nixternal> mdke will be on by then
[05:03] <bluefoxicy> Hello.
[05:03] <bluefoxicy> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PortKnocking
[05:04] <bluefoxicy> I would like to point out that Example 1 is sub-optimal.
[05:04] <Burgundavia> bluefoxicy: it is a wiki. Please fix as needed
[05:04] <bluefoxicy> Burgundavia: oh, I didn't see the edit link.
[05:04] <Burgundavia> you need to login
[05:04] <bluefoxicy> I'm also not sure how i should rewrite it.
[05:05] <bluefoxicy> since I don't want to just cut out information, but i don't want to make the page twice as long either
[05:05] <Burgundavia> that part I leave up to you
[05:06] <bluefoxicy> (the first example shows blocking port 22 completely; but you can block SYN packets, open for an IP, then close for that IP and established connections will keep running; TCP itself has a lot of anti-spoofing measures for existing connections)
[05:06] <bluefoxicy> Burgundavia:  Eh.  Then I'm going to put an endnote and let someone else make it flow right if they want.
[05:07] <bluefoxicy> oh wait nm
[05:08] <bluefoxicy> what the heck
[05:08] <bluefoxicy> "Then, edit the configuration file. We will present two different approches. One that is more adapted to connections with no keep-alive (http for example !), another mode adapted to permenant connections (SSH, IRC...)."
[05:09] <bluefoxicy> screw this, I have no idea what I'm reading.
[05:15] <nixternal> lol
[05:15] <Burgundavia> right
[05:21] <Burgundavia> Madpilot: just redirect https://wiki.ubuntu.com/newbe_to_newbe_guide_to_linux_commands_-_a_documentation_of_a_learning_proccess
[05:22] <Madpilot> meh. Inclined to just delete it, but that wouldn't help
[05:22] <Burgundavia> don't do that
[05:23] <Burgundavia> the redirected pages need to say "Redirecting..."
[05:23] <Burgundavia> because if the help wiki is slow, people are not catching it
[05:24] <Madpilot> Mediawiki does internal redirects better than MoinMoin...
[05:24] <Burgundavia> yes it does
[05:24] <Burgundavia> although is technically an external one
[05:25] <Burgundavia> you can set the refresh to anypage
[05:28] <Burgundavia> Madpilot: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CanadianTeam/Website
[05:28] <Madpilot> heh. Cool trick, if a bit pointless :)
[05:28] <Burgundavia> hey, life happens
[06:32] <nixternal> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/20168
[06:33] <nixternal> take a look at that docbook guys
[06:33] <nixternal> i know the error is with the , choisissez after </guimenu> when validating xml
[06:33] <nixternal> i can remove that and it works fine, however it would mess up the translation..
[09:13] (dsas/#ubuntu-doc) https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DemocracyPlayer ?
[09:14] (fyrestrtr/#ubuntu-doc) wth why don't they stick with wiki.ubuntu.com
[09:14] (dsas/#ubuntu-doc) documentation goes on the documentation wiki at help.ubuntu.com/community
[09:15] <fyrestrtr> so what's the difference between that, and wiki.ubuntu.com
[09:15] <dsas> see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BetterWikiDocs for details
[09:15] <dsas> wiki.ubuntu.com is being used for specifications, team pages, development stuff etc.
[09:16] <Madpilot> fyrestrtr, I moved it
[09:17] <Madpilot> actually, no, I didn't move DemocracyPlayer - but someone else did
[09:17] <Madpilot> I've moved a bunch of other pages in the last couple of days :)
[09:35] <nixternal> http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/display?content=5789
[09:40] <Burgundavia> lloydinho: can you please merge ContributetoUbuntu with HelpingUbuntu?
[09:41] <lloydinho> on the wiki?
[09:41] <lloydinho> Sure.
[09:41] <Burgundavia> yes
[09:41] <Burgundavia> note that HelpingUbuntu is going to go the ubuntu website RSN
[09:42] <Burgundavia> it also strikes me that people cannot effectively contribute to Ubuntu without a web connection (of some kind) and thus it does not make sense to have an offline document
[09:42] <lloydinho> is Helping Ubuntu going on the Ubuntu website?
[09:42] <Burgundavia> yes, at /community/contribute
[09:42] <Burgundavia> it still needs some work and I want jono to look over it
[09:43] <lloydinho> Well, I based most of the contributetoUbuntu on HelpingUbuntu and the old participate page, so my idea of a merge would be replacing most of it...
[09:43] <lloydinho> What did you have in mind with a merge, exactly?
[09:44] <Burgundavia> I want one document, how we get there is kind of immaterial to me
[09:44] <lloydinho> okay. I'll put them together, and you can have a look at it afterwards.
[09:44] <Burgundavia> the high level goals of HelpingUbuntu are to describe the major projects of ubuntu and shuffle people off to those projects, without bogging down in lots of details
[09:45] <Burgundavia> for instance, I find both particiapte and your page way too wordy
[09:45] <Burgundavia> mine is probably a little too far, but I think we can find a good compromise
[09:46] <lloydinho> Yeah, both mine and the participate page offer people specific tasks that they can do without having to look further.
[09:47] <lloydinho> Most of the team pages are very detailed and presume that people are in for the long haul.
[09:47] <Burgundavia> right, I don't think that is write way
[09:47] <Burgundavia> right way, rather
[09:47] <Burgundavia> we can fix the team pages
[09:47] <Burgundavia> we should describe what the teams do, rather than what they are doing right now
[09:47] <lloydinho> Yes. Well, that was the idea of the TeamPageTemplates.
[09:47] <Burgundavia> yes
[09:48] <Burgundavia> I only care that teams at least have a /projects and a /getinvolved page
[09:57] <lloydinho> the more I look at this HelpingUbuntu page, the less I like it. Explaining each team and its tasks in one or two sentences is simply not enough for people who have little experience with F/OSS community work.
[09:57] <Burgundavia> right, like I said, mine is probably a little too sparse
[09:57] <Burgundavia> I also haven't worked on it for a long while
[09:58] <lloydinho> Hmm. I suppose we'll have to find something in between.
[09:58] <Burgundavia> yes
[09:58] <Burgundavia> go nuts, edit like a wild man
[09:58] <lloydinho> heh
[10:08] <Burgundavia> mdke: do you have fop on doc.ubuntu.com?
[10:08] <mdke> Burgundavia: yes, but building pdfs doesn't work on there
[10:09] <Burgundavia> from svg?
[10:09] <Burgundavia> bugger
[10:09] <mdke> I dunno about from svg. probably not
[10:09] <mdke> I've only tries from xml
[10:10] <mdke> but unlikely that it will work, it was the images that cause the problem - the particular imaging library it uses requires X, or something crazy like that
[10:10] <Burgundavia> right
[10:10] <Burgundavia> I am trying to get this bloody svg into pdf form
[10:11] <Madpilot> Burgundavia, who's doing the printing?
[10:12] <Burgundavia> fast print, near the bay st. bridge
[10:12] <mdke> nixternal: can you post me that link again?
[10:12] <nixternal> sure
[10:12] <nixternal> http://buntudot.org/people/~nixternal/docs/translations/diffs/
[10:12] <mdke> thanks
[10:12] <Madpilot> Burgundavia, best case scenario: they take SVG. Worst: Export as bitmap->huge PNG->Scribus or GIMP->PDF
[10:13] <Burgundavia> I will try that tomorrow
[10:13] <nixternal> http://buntudot.org/people/~nixternal/docs/translations/    <-- this has the .tar.gz files of the aboutkubuntu/ and desktopguide/
[10:13] <mdke> nixternal: do those include completely new translations?
[10:13] <nixternal> there are a few yes
[10:13] <mdke> in the diffs?
[10:14] <nixternal> yes
[10:14] <mdke> great
[10:14] <mdke> it's the diffs I want so I'll grab those
[10:14] <nixternal> ok
[10:16] <mdke> nixternal: no new translations for aboutkubuntu?
[10:18] <nixternal> there were a few
[10:18] <mdke> nixternal: they aren't in your patch
[10:19] <nixternal> hmmm
[10:19] <nixternal> let me check it here
[10:20] <nixternal> ku/ ms/ be/ he/ hi/ ta/ is/   are all new for about kubuntu...so doing svn diff doesn't pick up the new stuff
[10:20] <mdke> ok
[10:20] <mdke> do "svn add *" then "svn diff" again
[10:20] <mdke> that way you'll get them in the diff
[10:21] <nixternal> yup
[10:21] <nixternal> lemme patch and up really quick
[10:24] <nixternal> diff rather ;)
[10:25] <nixternal> one sec..almost done
[10:25] <nixternal> desktopguide.diff is a biggie
[10:25] <mdke> ok, i'll just look at aboutkubuntu for now
[10:26] <nixternal> ok, they are done...refresh that page
[10:29] <mdke> that's better!
[10:29] <mdke> ok, who knows a bit of bash scripting?
[10:31] <nixternal> don't everyone speak up at once ;)
[10:31] <Burgundavia> some, what do you need?
[10:32] <mdke> I need to do: for x in *, do ../../validate.sh x/aboutkubuntu.xml
[10:32] <mdke> as it were
[10:33] <Burgundavia> hmm, that is loops, never really got those to work, plus it is 1am here
[10:35] <mdke> ok, sorted, I think
[10:36] <mdke> nixternal: aboutkubuntu looks good to me
[10:36] <nixternal> cool
[10:37] <nixternal> about kubuntu was the easier one, as the edits were all pretty easy
[10:37] <mdke> ok, let's try desktopguide now
[10:37] <nixternal> validate.sh was my friend
[10:37] <nixternal> i would make an edit, save, validate..just so i wasn't stepping on my own toes
[10:38] <nixternal> plus Kate has built in XML validation which goes a step further
[10:38] <mdke> oh great, so you validated every file before moving on to the next one?
[10:38] <nixternal> oh ya
[10:39] <nixternal> ../../validate.sh desktopguide.xml   in the respected directory..and that would spit out all the errors
[10:39] <mdke> excellent
[10:39] <nixternal> then i would make edits to respected file, save it, and then run validation again, to make sure i didn't miss anything
[10:39] <nixternal> and to make sure i didn't break anything
[10:40] <mdke> perfect
[10:43] <mdke> ah, ms/preface.xml is missing
[10:43] <nixternal> let me look
[10:43] <mdke> no, not your fault
[10:44] <nixternal> oh
[10:44] <mdke> otherwise, everything good with desktopguide too, nice work
[10:44] <nixternal> thank you!
[10:44] <mdke> how did you fix the id errors?
[10:44] <nixternal> i would open them up with Kate, as well as the same file under C/ and reference back and forth
[10:45] <nixternal> most of the id errors were spelling mistakes anyways
[10:45] <nixternal> dan instead of and
[10:45] <mdke> excellent
[10:45] <mdke> it's a good way to get familiar with xml this :)
 were the majority though
[10:45] <nixternal> oh, i am familiar with xml, as i have done docbook work int he past
[10:46] <mdke> gotcha
[10:46] <nixternal> plus i have been playing around with the "Switching" guides as well with jjesse
[10:47] <mdke> ok. So you changed kubuntu/Makefile too?
[10:47] <nixternal> yes
[10:47] <nixternal> i added the new directories in for html build and pdf build
[10:48] <nixternal> i didn't mess with the LuLu stuff though, as it seemed there were only a few listed there
[10:48] <nixternal> plus if need be, they can be added very easily
[10:48] <mdke> that's absolutely fine.
[10:49] <mdke> one thing though on the pdfs, you've used some of the specific parameters that were korean only as your template
[10:50] <mdke> so I'm going to remove this bit: "--stringparam body.font.family "batang" --stringparam monospace.font.family "dotum""
[10:50] <nixternal> ahhh
[10:50] <nixternal> ya, because i copied/pasted
[10:51] <mdke> korean and some other languages need special fonts, that is why that bit is there.
[10:57] <mdke> nixternal: splendid, thanks a lot for that.
[10:58] <mdke> just doing a test build of everything now
[10:58] <nixternal> no problem, just a token of my appreciation for letting me hang out around here ;)
[10:59] <mdke> argh!
[10:59] <nixternal> uh oh
[10:59] <nixternal> how bad?
[11:00] <nixternal> whew
[11:00] <nixternal> you had me sweatin' on that one
[11:00] <mdke> my bad, I've updated and he has fixed it
[11:01] <mdke> excellent, excellent
[11:01] <nixternal> lol
[11:02] <lloydinho> Burgundavia, have a look at the page now: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingUbuntu
[11:03] <Burgundavia> looks good
[11:03] <Burgundavia> I am about to crash
[11:03] <Burgundavia> night all
[11:03] <mdke> lloydinho: you're not giving up on the contributing article for the help system, right?
[11:03] <lloydinho> No, Burgundavia just wanted me to update the HelpingUbuntu page as well.
[11:04] <Burgundavia> mdke: tbh, I just don't see the point of having an offline version
[11:04] <nixternal> lloydinho: for "Hardware Testing" there is now a PDA Testing Team as well
[11:04] <Burgundavia> to contribute meaningfullly to the ubuntu community, you really need a web connection of some kind, even if just at the library
[11:04] <Burgundavia> hence, lets just maintain the web one
[11:04] <mdke> Burgundavia: for a start, it's central to the inclusion of the packaging guide in the help system
[11:04] <lloydinho> nixternal,  then please add it ;-)
[11:05] <nixternal> how did i know that was coming ;)
[11:05] <mdke> and we've also hacked the contribute sections out of about-ubuntu and desktopguide in favour of using that
[11:05] <lloydinho> heh :)
[11:05] <Burgundavia> I don't really understand why the packaging guide should be shipped either
[11:05] <Burgundavia> as a supplemental package, maybe, but not shipping
[11:05] <nixternal> it is all apart of recruiting i think Burgundavia
[11:05] <nixternal> packaging is exciting and fun
[11:06] <Burgundavia> right, but again, can you contribute to the ubuntu community without some sorf of web connection, no
[11:06] <lloydinho> You can make packages without being on-line.
[11:06] <nixternal> nothing like debdiffs, pbuilder, chroot's, and what not
[11:06] <Burgundavia> and then what are you going to do with them?
[11:06] <mdke> for example, the Ubuntu build system makes packages without being on-line
[11:06] <Burgundavia> plus, packaging is going to be done by such a tiny minority
[11:06] <Burgundavia> to use pbuilder, you need bandwdith
[11:06] <Burgundavia> lots and lots of it
[11:06] <Burgundavia> there are plenty of debian people who don't use it for that very reason
[11:07] <Burgundavia> plus a shipped document is just likely to lead to frustration, as things change, projects change and people change
[11:07] <mdke> that's a nothing argument too, because the document has to change with them too
[11:07] <lloydinho> Burgundavia, you have a point - that is why the document I'm writing is generally more intended for people who have little experience with F/OSS and will be needing a little more hand-holding.
[11:07] <Burgundavia> plus the maintainence of two seperate docs, in two sperate places
[11:08] <mdke> it's not being maintained in two separate places
[11:08] <Burgundavia> they have a one para in about ubuntu and url
[11:08] <Burgundavia> to /community/participate
[11:08] <nixternal> you want to know the truth...only the past month or so i have actually read over the docs that come installed..and only because i wanted to learn the kde help center, so i could help out iwth the kubuntu documentation
[11:08] <Burgundavia> So you want to help, thats great. Please go here!
[11:08] <nixternal> other than that, i never looked at system documentation..not even when i used other distros as well
[11:08] <Burgundavia> right documentation is rarely used
[11:08] <nixternal> i read the KDE docs for the first time just recently
[11:09] <lloydinho> uh, well, we _are_ trying to get people to use the system docs more often.
[11:09] <Burgundavia> yes, we are
[11:09] <nixternal> however Burgundavia, i think that can also be contributed to the fact that i am somewhat tech savvy, and can usually fix my way out of an issue and what not..or i know where to go directly for my help
[11:09] <Burgundavia> the packaging guide and a contributing guide are really not going to help that
[11:09] <Burgundavia> nixternal: regular users rarely turn to docs either. It is well documented
[11:10] <Burgundavia> to me, the packaging guide is like dive in python (which is also no longer shipped)
[11:10] <Burgundavia> plus that space is small but meaningful
[11:11] <Burgundavia> anyway, I really need to sleep
[11:11] <Burgundavia> night
[11:11] <nixternal> nite
[11:11] <lloydinho> night.. :-)
[11:11] <lloydinho> wow, a little grumpy at the end there.
[11:12] <lloydinho> I still think that having off-line documentation makes very good sense.
[11:12] <nixternal> i agree, however i think there needs to be a better system to feed that documentation
[11:12] <nixternal> as it is right now, i don't see any reason for me to click "Help"
[11:12] <lloydinho> no, that's true.
[11:13] <mvirkkil> lloydinho: hi
[11:13] <lloydinho> Well, we've discussed having a top-level help menu as well...
[11:13] <mvirkkil> lloydinho: you sent me some mail
[11:13] <lloydinho> mvirkkil! Hi!
[11:13] <lloydinho> So you did get my mail. Sorry for pestering you! :-)
[11:13] <mvirkkil> lloydinho: I'm sorry I haven't been more active. I was organizing assembly2006 last week
[11:14] <mvirkkil> lloydinho: Yeah I did. You have to pester a bit more yet, because I haven't done what you asked.
[11:14] <nixternal> i think people tend to view "Help" as super beginner information. like how to type or something...i think taking info that is on wiki pages and the wiki forums thing, turning them into documentation..that is a good idea, just need to find that way to feed the user the info
[11:14] <lloydinho> no problem. I'll do that if I have to.. :)
[11:14] <lloydinho> mvirkkil, but do you think it would be easy to do?
[11:15] <mvirkkil> lloydinho: yes, I think it shouldn't be a problem.
[11:15] <mvirkkil> lloydinho: Not super easy, but certainly doable.
[11:15] <lloydinho> mvirkkil, cool! It would be really great to have that feature as well. I'm sure we would make great use of it
[11:16] <mdke> what was the feature?
[11:16] <mvirkkil> lloydinho: I keep the whole docbook in memory, so at somepoint one could walk it and add the necessary stuff, before serializing it to txt
[11:16] <mvirkkil> mdke: "See this page on the wiki" or something.
[11:17] <lloydinho> mdke: yes the wiki referral links on the exported wiki2docbook pages
[11:17] <mdke> I don't get it
[11:17] <mdke> when you export a wikipage to docbook, you want a link which points back to the same wikipage?
[11:18] <lloydinho> so that people can edit it and add comments.
[11:18] <lloydinho> To make it easy to improve and add suggestions.
[11:18] <mvirkkil> mdke: I suppose the idea is that if someone reads our docs and wants to make a contribution somewhere, it's a click (and a login) away.
[11:18] <lloydinho> That was the idea, anyway.
[11:18] <mvirkkil> or your docs :=
[11:18] <mvirkkil> :)
[11:20] <lloydinho> mdke, I thought it was basically your idea to begin with. Having an easily editable wiki will make it easier to involve people in the documentation.
[11:20] <nixternal> mdke: so would you like me to tackle the xubuntu translations as well?
[11:20] <mdke> right I see where you're going. "Read this page on the wiki" wouldn't be an appropriate link though
[11:21] <mdke> it was the "read" bit that confused me... I thought, "but, they've just read it"
[11:21] <mdke> nixternal: if you fancy it, sure thing! There is a problem with those afaik, the validate script spits out the images, just ignore that
[11:22] <nixternal> ok..i will take a look at them in a few hours..im going to head off to sleepy land
[11:22] <nixternal> g'nite everyone!
[11:22] <mvirkkil> lloydinho: Where on a page should it be placed? Top or bottom?
[11:22] <lloydinho> good nite!
[11:22] <lloydinho> mvirkkil, at the bottom, I think.
[11:23] <mdke> "Contribute to this document"?
[11:23] <lloydinho> mdke, I think the original phrase was "Does this work for you? Share your experiences, tips and tricks and improve the Ubuntu documentation >> to wiki page"
[11:23] <mvirkkil> ok. Please keep bugging me about it so I won't forget it.
[11:23] <lloydinho> mvirkkil, cool! Will do! :-)
[11:24] <lloydinho> ( >> = link)
[11:25] <mdke> i think it needs to be something that makes it clear that "wiki page" equates to a place that the user can work directly on the document
[11:26] <mdke> but anyhow, this can be tinkering with later
[11:27] <lloydinho> I think Mikko will make it so the exact text can be decided upon by the administrator exporting the doc
[11:29] <mdke> manicka: how do you feel about the way the team is looking? any issues that you want to sort out?
[11:31] <manicka> I like the direction it is taking. I guess we've pushed it a little into the doc-teams corner but that's ok with me
[11:32] <manicka> also, I'm happy to get things kicked off but we desperately need more team members to make it a reality in the long run
[11:32] <mdke> sure thing
[11:32] <manicka> I've worked in a team before where only one or two people did the work... it's not healthy
[11:33] <mdke> well, I think that if the right infrastructure is there for a team, and people are out there, and the team is visible enough, it will work
[11:33] <manicka> yes, i hope so :)
[11:33] <manicka> the fridge posting etc will help
[11:34] <manicka> i haven't looked at planet ubuntu yet, did you put one there as well?
[11:35] <mdke> yes
[11:35] <manicka> :)
[11:42] <manicka> I'd also like  a clearer idea of how we will keep the import page maintained. Do we need someone to oversee the posts that are added to it or for that matter need someone who regularly reviews the how-to forum for likely posts to add to the list
[11:43] <mdke> manicka: what do you think? I think it's the job of the whole team to use that page
[11:43] <manicka> I keep an eye on what the udsf adds to their threads to doc page but they have slowed down their work rate considerably of late
[11:43] <manicka> yes, I'd like the whole team to do it
[11:43] <manicka> I'd like that made clear somewhere
[11:44] <mdke> use the forum page for everything, feel free to edit it
[11:45] <manicka> ok
[11:49] <mdke> holy crap that is an unbelievable amount of new KDG translations
[11:50] <mdke> oh no, /me was looking at the wrong thing
[02:36] <mpt> mdke, did you get my mail?
[03:18] <mdke> mpt: yes, I take it you didn't get my reply
[03:21] <mpt> mdke, no
[03:22] <mdke> mpt: I'll resend it now
[03:22] <mpt> thanks
[03:22] <mdke> mpt: gone
[03:27] <lloydinho> mdke, did you see Corey's argument against having two separate Contribute docs above?
[03:27] <mdke> lloydinho: I saw his argument against shipping the contribute doc in the distribution anyway.
[03:27] <mdke> dunno about two separate docs
[03:28] <lloydinho> Yeah, well - same thing, really
[03:28] <lloydinho> I was just wondering what the best course of action on this would be.
[03:28] <mdke> we could ship the same doc in the help system as on the website...
[03:29] <lloydinho> Because Corey wants the succinct version of the Contribute doc. Just the basic "These are the teams. Here's how you can get in touch with them"
[03:30] <lloydinho> And I've been doing the verbose hand-holding "If you're unsure how to contribute, you can do this and that, and you can contact the team for more details"
[03:30] <lloydinho> I think they may have different audiences in mind.
[03:30] <mdke> ok, I can see that
[03:31] <lloydinho> I'm interested in appealing to new users who aren't familiar with F/OSS to any great extent
[03:31] <lloydinho> And give them a good introduction of how the Ubuntu community works.
[03:32] <lloydinho> That introduction would necessarily be different from the one that F/OSS veterans would want.
[03:32] <mdke> I think that sounds very good.
[03:32] <mdke> but again, I can also see why that approach would work for the website too
[03:34] <lloydinho> yes, we could well put the extended version on the website as well.
[03:34] <lloydinho> But I would very much like to just have one Contribute doc to maintain, too.
[03:35] <lloydinho> Would it be possible to have one extended document that you can "fold" into a shorter one?
[03:36] <lloydinho> I've seen that done with VIM, but it would be a neat trick to pull off on a webpage..
[03:37] <mdke> nothing springs to mind
[03:39] <lloydinho> I wouldn't think there would be any such solution readily available
[03:40] <mdke> shall we discuss further on the Mailing List, I need to go now
[03:40] <lloydinho> Yes. I would like that, too.
[03:40] <mdke> cool
[03:40] <lloydinho> Cool, I'll send a mail out. See ya.
[05:48] <nixternal> good mornin'
[06:20] <nixternal> LaserJock: class tonight!! i am definitely interested in that..and, what do you file a ubuntu.com bug against?
[06:23] <mdke> ubuntu-website
[06:28] <LaserJock> lloydinho: ping?
[06:29] <nixternal> ty mdke ;)
[06:29] <LaserJock> nixternal: I've just got to figure out how to do it :-)
[06:30] <nixternal> uh oh ;)
[06:33] <LaserJock> well, I started writing last night, and it just got huge
[06:35] <nixternal> ya, i expect it to be
[06:41] <nixternal> mdke:  xubuntu/desktopguide/am/desktopguide.xml   <xi:include.......... href="../../../common/am/preface.xml"/>    <- the error is becase there is no such directory or file under /common...easy fix?
[06:42] <mdke> nixternal: yes, do "svn mkdir common/am && svn cp common/C/preface.xml common/am/preface.xml"
[06:42] <nixternal> sweet, thanks
[06:42] <mdke> thanks again
[06:43] <nixternal> you the man mdke!
[07:35] <nixternal> mdke: xubuntu/desktopguide/sv/*.xml   all the files are empty...should the directory be removed, or just leave it as is and forget the errors due to the files being empty?
[08:11] <nixternal> mdke: http://buntudot.org/people/~nixternal/docs/translations/diffs/             xubuntu_translations.diff is complete, and 5.8mb, 25 new translations/directories, 1 with empty .xml files, and the Makefile has been edited to create the new pdf's
[08:24] <mdke> nixternal: the empty xml file might be due to a bug in rosetta, I'll take a look tomorrow
[08:24] <mdke> nixternal: thanks for doing that, I'll deal tomorrow and upload
[08:27] <Burgwork> !time london
[08:27] <Burgwork> hmm, how do I activate that bloody bot again
[08:27] <mdke> it's 19.27
[08:27] <Burgwork> ah, ok
[08:27] <Burgwork> trying to get a hold of malcolm yates
[08:28] <Burgwork> +44 (0) 7769 703709 <-- is the zero part of the number
[08:28] <mdke> mobile
[08:29] <mdke> cellular, or whatever you guys call it
[08:29] <Burgwork> yep, but I am getting a "this number doens't work" when I dial it
[08:29] <mdke> have you tried ommitting the 0?
[08:29] <mdke> oh, that was a question
[08:29] <Burgwork> yep
[08:29] <mdke> i think generally it should be omitted
[08:29] <mdke> hmm
[08:37] <Burgwork> ok, got through
[08:45] <nixternal> np mdke, the xubuntu ones were easier, as the only mistakes was mispelling <sudo-and-root> as <sudo-dan-root> again. and <emphasis> being <emphasys>
[09:03] <jjesse> hmmm did we need to update our docs for 6.06.1 ?
[09:04] <jjesse> i'm referencing bug 55913
[09:04] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 55913 in ubuntu-docs "Firefox default Homepage should now reffer to 6.06.1" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/55913
[09:08] <nixternal> firefox default homepage..is that really doc related?  that is setup in the DE-default-settings isn't it?
[09:09] <nixternal> as for 6.06.1, nothing new and exciting really except for bug fixes..however, i think that maybe the "Release Notes" should have been updated to reflect version&
[09:09] <jjesse> probablly should have been communicated better w/ the doc team for expectations
[09:10] <nixternal> +1
[09:10] <nixternal> kubuntu meeting today as well jjesse, i have added a blurb to the agenda concerning "knot release" information
[09:11] <jjesse> nixternal: i know, though can't make it
[09:11] <jjesse> the time is not good
[09:11] <jjesse> for me
[09:11] <nixternal> as the knots come out, the releases need to start selling Edgy..as of right now, i have yet to see anything "bleeding edge" from any of the releases
[09:11] <nixternal> ya, 5 o'clock is traffic time for you
[09:12] <nixternal> sabdfl announced Edgy as bleeding edge, new technologies, you name it, to create a foundation for future releases of *ubuntu.
[09:12] <nixternal> time we get edgy then ;)
[09:18] <jjesse> did you read his post in regards to communicating ggoals on his blgo?
[09:18] <jjesse> blog
[09:19] <nixternal> ya..im going to re-read it as well...that way there i can communicate well when it comes to the edgy stuff ;)
[09:19] <nixternal> right now im just a bumbling fool


[03:31] <KGB-X> gnome-terminal signed tags 7b0470b Jeremy Bicha upstream/3.51.90 * Upstream version 3.51.90 * https://deb.li/hALh
[03:32] <KGB-X> gnome-terminal upstream/latest d265790 Jeremy Bicha * pushed 25 commits (first 5 follow) * https://deb.li/3obGe
[03:32] <KGB-X> gnome-terminal upstream/latest 181516d Christian Persch meson.build * build: Update glib max allowed version to 2.68 * https://deb.li/SziD
[03:32] <KGB-X> gnome-terminal upstream/latest 917c5d6 Hugo Carvalho po/pt.po * Update Portuguese translation * https://deb.li/3bncz
[03:32] <KGB-X> gnome-terminal upstream/latest f6b34f9 Egmont Koblinger src/terminal-options.cc * client: legacy: Fix error in --wait option processing * https://deb.li/3gAhR
[03:32] <KGB-X> gnome-terminal upstream/latest eff1a7c Christian Persch meson.build * build: Post branch version bump * https://deb.li/iO2yv
[03:32] <KGB-X> gnome-terminal upstream/latest 258c1dc Andre Klapper help/C/ adv-custom-colors.page.stub introduction.page * help: Consistently use "Terminal" instead of "GNOME Terminal" * https://deb.li/on8C
[03:33] <KGB-X> gnome-terminal pristine-tar 54bc564 Jeremy Bícha gnome-terminal_3.51.90.orig.tar.bz2.delta gnome-terminal_3.51.90.orig.tar.bz2.id * pristine-tar data for gnome-terminal_3.51.90.orig.tar.bz2 * https://deb.li/kzwV
[03:57] <KGB-X> mutter Kai-Heng Feng 466539 * commented merge request !117 * https://deb.li/pr8d
[04:23] <KGB-X> mutter Kai-Heng Feng 466546 * commented merge request !118 * https://deb.li/3QAtV
[07:19] <KGB-X> mutter ubuntu/jammy 3168e2a Kai-Heng Feng debian/ changelog patches/series patches/gen_default_modes-Consider-reduced-blanking-with-lower-pi.patch * Fix mirror mode on reduced blanking panel. (LP: #2051074) * https://deb.li/3n2oC
[07:19] -ubottu:#ubuntu-desktop- Launchpad bug 2051074 in mutter (Ubuntu Mantic) "Mirror mode doesn't work when panel only supports one refresh rate with reduced blanking" [Undecided, New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2051074
[07:24] <KGB-X> mutter ubuntu/jammy 6c6c784 Daniel van Vugt debian/patches/ series compositor-x11-Sync-again-at-the-end-of-before_paint.patch * Add compositor-x11-Sync-again-at-the-end-of-before_paint.patch * https://deb.li/cQWU
[07:27] <KGB-X> mutter ubuntu/jammy 8bc6733 Daniel van Vugt debian/changelog * changelog: Mention the fix for LP: #2054510 * https://deb.li/3Gb8F
[07:27] -ubottu:#ubuntu-desktop- Launchpad bug 2054510 in mutter (Ubuntu Jammy) "Incomplete screen redraws in virtual machines running Xorg" [Medium, In Progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2054510
[07:29] <KGB-X> mutter ubuntu/mantic dc6af4f Kai-Heng Feng debian/ changelog patches/series patches/gen_default_modes-Consider-reduced-blanking-with-lower-pi.patch * Fix mirror mode on reduced blanking panel. (LP: #2051074) * https://deb.li/3wrL7
[07:29] -ubottu:#ubuntu-desktop- Launchpad bug 2051074 in mutter (Ubuntu Mantic) "Mirror mode doesn't work when panel only supports one refresh rate with reduced blanking" [Undecided, New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2051074
[08:00] <KGB-X> mutter ubuntu/jammy 3cbeddf Daniel van Vugt debian/control * debian/control: The Uploaders list changed in 42.9-0ubuntu5 * https://deb.li/3t1Mj
[08:00] <KGB-X> mutter ubuntu/jammy 2049272 Kai-Heng Feng debian/ changelog patches/series patches/gen_default_modes-Consider-reduced-blanking-with-lower-pi.patch * Fix mirror mode on reduced blanking panel. (LP: #2051074) * https://deb.li/GCG4
[08:00] -ubottu:#ubuntu-desktop- Launchpad bug 2051074 in mutter (Ubuntu Mantic) "Mirror mode doesn't work when panel only supports one refresh rate with reduced blanking" [Undecided, In Progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2051074
[08:01] <KGB-X> mutter ubuntu/jammy 6c7ed0f Daniel van Vugt debian/patches/ series compositor-x11-Sync-again-at-the-end-of-before_paint.patch * Add compositor-x11-Sync-again-at-the-end-of-before_paint.patch * https://deb.li/3y5jD
[08:01] <KGB-X> mutter ubuntu/jammy 07293a3 Daniel van Vugt debian/changelog * changelog: Mention the fix for LP: #2054510 * https://deb.li/E5cg
[08:01] -ubottu:#ubuntu-desktop- Launchpad bug 2054510 in mutter (Ubuntu Jammy) "Incomplete screen redraws in virtual machines running Xorg" [Medium, In Progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2054510
[08:01] <KGB-X> mutter tags 3cbeddf Daniel van Vugt ubuntu/42.9-0ubuntu5 * https://deb.li/fYfc
[08:15] <KGB-X> mutter ubuntu/jammy 0b75ecb Daniel van Vugt debian/ changelog control.in * debian/control.in: Stop automatically reverting to the old uploaders * https://deb.li/iUCDE
[08:38] <KGB-X> mutter ubuntu/mantic 595c9c8 Daniel van Vugt debian/ changelog patches/series patches/compositor-x11-Sync-again-at-the-end-of-before_paint.patch * Add compositor-x11-Sync-again-at-the-end-of-before_paint.patch * https://deb.li/3ECf7
[09:57] <KGB-X> gtk3 Simon McVittie 466592 * commented merge request !21 * https://deb.li/Mu1g
[10:01] <KGB-X> gtk3 Simon McVittie 466593 * commented merge request !21 * https://deb.li/ikDxl
[13:08] <KGB-X> gnome-builder signed tags 0f1fbf2 Jeremy Bicha upstream/46_beta * Upstream version 46~beta * https://deb.li/3tZT2
[13:08] <KGB-X> gnome-builder upstream/latest fccd375 Jeremy Bicha * pushed 198 commits (first 5 follow) * https://deb.li/tVuM
[13:08] <KGB-X> gnome-builder upstream/latest d9121c8 Ekaterine Papava po/ka.po * Update Georgian translation * https://deb.li/3EORj
[13:08] <KGB-X> gnome-builder upstream/latest fd09165 Danial Behzadi po/fa.po * Update Persian translation * https://deb.li/yXj4
[13:09] <KGB-X> gnome-builder upstream/latest f98486a Yuri Chornoivan po/uk.po * Update Ukrainian translation * https://deb.li/3XZvD
[13:09] <KGB-X> gnome-builder upstream/latest 7af0fcc Sabri Ünal data/appdata/ (8 files) * appdata: Update screenshots * https://deb.li/JF4g
[13:09] <KGB-X> gnome-builder upstream/latest 6575d56 Christian Hergert data/appdata/ (8 files) * Merge branch 'update-screenshots' into 'main' * https://deb.li/3mVzl
[13:09] <KGB-X> gnome-builder pristine-tar aa70cdf Jeremy Bícha gnome-builder_46~beta.orig.tar.xz.delta gnome-builder_46~beta.orig.tar.xz.id * pristine-tar data for gnome-builder_46~beta.orig.tar.xz * https://deb.li/3UcDx
[16:29] <bdrung> jbicha, can you have a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-control-center/+bug/2045493 please?
[16:29] -ubottu:#ubuntu-desktop- Launchpad bug 2045493 in unity-control-center (Ubuntu) "unity-control-center crashed with signal 5 in ???()" [Medium, Confirmed]
[19:21] <KGB-X> gnome-maps tags ae91aea Amin Bandali upstream/45.4 * Upstream version 45.4 * https://deb.li/ijqu1
[19:21] <KGB-X> gnome-maps upstream/latest e249131 Amin Bandali * pushed 6 commits (first 5 follow) * https://deb.li/TWR4
[19:21] <KGB-X> gnome-maps upstream/latest 6796a22 Marcus Lundblad (via Amin Bandali) meson.build * Post-release version bump * https://deb.li/32yzx
[19:22] <KGB-X> gnome-maps upstream/latest ef6edc5 Milo Casagrande (via Amin Bandali) po/it.po * Update Italian translation * https://deb.li/q1Dg
[19:22] <KGB-X> gnome-maps upstream/latest 4c19c42 James Westman (via Amin Bandali) src/ mapMarker.js placeBar.js * placeBar: Fix place bar not appearing * https://deb.li/3Vgsl
[19:22] <KGB-X> gnome-maps upstream/latest 7c5e0b3 James Westman (via Amin Bandali) data/ui/place-bar.ui src/placeBar.js * placeBar: Fix UI * https://deb.li/D3QM
[19:22] <KGB-X> gnome-maps upstream/latest dd77603 Marcus Lundblad (via Amin Bandali) NEWS data/org.gnome.Maps.appdata.xml.in.in * Release 45.4 * https://deb.li/3RPvj
[19:22] <KGB-X> gnome-maps pristine-tar 987ae12 Amin Bandali gnome-maps_45.4.orig.tar.xz.delta gnome-maps_45.4.orig.tar.xz.id * pristine-tar data for gnome-maps_45.4.orig.tar.xz * https://deb.li/i3qnD


[00:25] <menn0> ericsnow: ping?
[00:25] <ericsnow> menn0: hey
[00:26] <menn0> ericsnow: quick question... why is the vsphere provider set up to not build under gccgo or go 1.2?
[00:27] <ericsnow> menn0: dependencies
[00:27] <menn0> ericsnow: i'm reviewing the rackspace provider PR and the sshclient from vsphere has been moved and generalised to support it and the build tags came along
[00:27] <ericsnow> menn0: (govmomi requires 1.3+)
[00:27] <menn0> ericsnow: but the ssh client should work fine?
[00:27] <ericsnow> menn0: yep
[00:27] <menn0> ericsnow: ok, i'll mention that the build tag should go
[00:27] <ericsnow> menn0: it's just the Go bindings to the vsphere API that were the problem
[00:28] <menn0> ericsnow: thanks
[00:28] <ericsnow> menn0: np
[00:28] <menn0> ericsnow: actually, one more thing, the sshclient code assumes the host is Linux so won't work with windows hosts. is this ok/expected? (i know nothing about vsphere)
[00:29] <ericsnow> menn0: for vsphere I expect it's okay
[00:29] <menn0> ericsnow: any idea when it comes to rackspace? this PR is using the same code there.
[00:30] <ericsnow> menn0: rackspace is openstack under the hood
[00:32] <menn0> ericsnow: and openstack does appear to support windows hosts, but I don't know about rackspace
[00:32] <menn0> ericsnow: i'l raise it as a possible issue. thanks.
[00:32] <ericsnow> menn0: k, cool
[01:08] <natefinch> katco, ericsnow, wwitzel3: evening
[01:09] <katco> natefinch: o/
[01:09] <katco> natefinch: i'm in moonstone. eric and wayne are taking a break
[02:20] <wallyworld> thumper: have you forward ported bug 1468581?
[02:20] <mup> Bug #1468581: juju bootstrap fails - Waiting for API to become available ERROR cannot get all blocks: EOF <api> <bootstrap> <oil> <juju-core:In Progress by thumper> <juju-core 1.24:Fix Released by thumper> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1468581>
[02:20] <thumper> I think so...
[02:20] <thumper> let me check
[02:20] <wallyworld> axw: and bug 1474614
[02:20] <mup> Bug #1474614: rsyslog connections fail with certificate verification errors after upgrade to 1.24.2 <regression> <juju-core:Triaged by axwalk> <juju-core 1.24:Fix Released by axwalk> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1474614>
[02:20] <wallyworld> and there's a few from menno as well
[02:21] <wallyworld> menn0 even
[02:21] <axw> wallyworld: from the bug, "Forward-porting fix to 1.25 is currently blocked on other changes to the rsyslog worker being forward ported (i.e. the change that the upgrade step is concerned with)."
[02:21] <wallyworld> ah ok
[02:21] <wallyworld> didn't read the bug :-)
[02:21] <axw> wallyworld: I'll look at doing that after I finish up what I'm working on
[02:22] <wallyworld> just the milestone page
[02:22] <wallyworld> ty
[02:22] <wallyworld> we're aiming to cut 1.25 alpha 1 real soon
[02:22] <wallyworld> hence the follow up
[02:22] <menn0> wallyworld: i'm planning on doing the forward port for bug 1474195 this afternoon
[02:22] <mup> Bug #1474195: juju 1.24 memory leakage <cpec> <deployer> <performance> <regression> <juju-core:In Progress by menno.smits> <juju-core 1.24:Fix Released by menno.smits> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1474195>
[02:23] <wallyworld> awesome tyvm
[02:23] <menn0> wallyworld: actually, I lie. I have the PR ready for that but want Will's review (have emailed him)
[02:23] <thumper> wallyworld: no
[02:23] <menn0> wallyworld: i'm doing bug 1474606 this afternoon
[02:23] <wallyworld> menn0: and the other 2 against you?
[02:23] <mup> Bug #1474606: $set updates may clear out the env-uuid field <juju-core:In Progress by menno.smits> <juju-core 1.24:Fix Released by menno.smits> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1474606>
[02:23] <thumper> wallyworld: I must have forgotten
[02:23] <thumper> bad me
[02:23]  * wallyworld spanks thumper
[02:24] <thumper> oi
[02:24] <thumper> none of that
[02:24] <menn0> wallyworld: bug 1474588 is nowhere near investigated let alone fixed
[02:24] <mup> Bug #1474588: Many hook failures after upgrade <regression> <juju-core:Triaged by menno.smits> <juju-core 1.24:Triaged by menno.smits> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1474588>
[02:25] <wallyworld> menn0: the othr one i was refering to in marked in progress bug 1457225
[02:26] <wallyworld> wake up mup bug 1457225
[02:27] <wallyworld> oh right, you answer that
[02:27] <wallyworld> sorry
[02:51] <menn0> wallyworld: mup knew that :)
[02:52] <mup> Bug #1476895 opened: ec2: auto-created EBS volumes are not tagged <ec2-provider> <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1476895>
[02:58] <mup> Bug #1476895 changed: ec2: auto-created EBS volumes are not tagged <ec2-provider> <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1476895>
[03:16] <mup> Bug #1476895 opened: ec2: auto-created EBS volumes are not tagged <ec2-provider> <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1476895>
[03:34] <katco> ericsnow: wwitzel3: if by any chance you're lurking around, natefinch and i are in moonstone
[03:37] <thumper> menn0: ignore http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/2234/
[03:37] <axw> wallyworld: would you PTAL at https://github.com/go-goose/goose/pull/12
[03:38] <wallyworld> sure
[03:38] <menn0> thumper: happily ignoring :)
[03:39] <wallyworld> axw: +1
[03:40] <axw> wallyworld: ta
[03:59] <menn0> wallyworld: cherry picking the fixes for bug 1474606 is proving difficult because it depends the fixes for bug 1474195 (which i'm waiting on a review from will on)
[03:59] <mup> Bug #1474606: $set updates may clear out the env-uuid field <juju-core:In Progress by menno.smits> <juju-core 1.24:Fix Released by menno.smits> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1474606>
[03:59] <mup> Bug #1474195: juju 1.24 memory leakage <cpec> <deployer> <performance> <regression> <juju-core:In Progress by menno.smits> <juju-core 1.24:Fix Released by menno.smits> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1474195>
[03:59] <menn0> wallyworld: can it wait until tomorrow?
[04:03] <wallyworld> menn0: for both? can wait if necessary
[04:04] <wallyworld> i ping william later to make sure he reviews
[04:13] <menn0> wallyworld: thanks. the second one doesn't need will's review, just the one that's up.
[04:13] <menn0> wallyworld: i've emailed him about it as well.
[04:18] <wallyworld> ty
[04:25] <mup> Bug #1457797 changed: Juju bootstrap doesn't work behind proxy <bootstrap> <juju> <juju-core:Expired> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1457797>
[04:40] <mup> Bug #1457797 opened: Juju bootstrap doesn't work behind proxy <bootstrap> <juju> <juju-core:Expired> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1457797>
[04:46] <mup> Bug #1457797 changed: Juju bootstrap doesn't work behind proxy <bootstrap> <juju> <juju-core:Expired> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1457797>
[04:46] <mup> Bug #1476918 opened: juju switch doesn't work without an environments.yaml file <cli> <jes> <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1476918>
[04:59] <axw> wallyworld: another small review if you don't mind: https://github.com/go-amz/amz/pull/56
[04:59] <wallyworld> sure
[05:18] <wallyworld> jam: morning, would you have time soonish to talk about resources? in maybe 15 minutes when anastasia gets back from school pickup?
[05:40] <jam> wallyworld: sure, are you available now?
[05:41] <wallyworld> jam: almost, just waiting to hear back from anastasia who is caught in traffic. may have to defer if it gets to close to my school pickup time
[05:41] <jam> k
[06:06] <wallyworld> jam: you free now?
[06:06] <jam> wallyworld: sure
[06:06] <wallyworld> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/canonical.com/tanzanite-stand
[06:09]  * thumper looks around for urulama
[08:11] <mup> Bug #1476996 opened: Network communication failed during juju bootstrap <juju-core:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1476996>
[08:47] <mup> Bug #1477010 opened: provider/openstack: volumes may not attach if instance takes a long time to provision <openstack-provider> <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1477010>
[09:00] <dooferlad> fwereade: hangout?
[09:38] <frankban_> ocr: quick deps update http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/2238/ thanks!
[10:15] <fwereade> wallyworld, you still around?
[10:17] <fwereade> wallyworld, I'm wondering whether we need to read the whole previous status doc every time we set
[10:18] <fwereade> wallyworld, could we just write the same data to both the watched and the raw collections every time?
[10:18] <fwereade> wallyworld, (and fwiw I think it might be more reliable?)
[10:38]  * fwereade was doing some python the other day and just spent *far* too long wondering why gofmt didn't like "def"
[10:41] <natefinch> lol
[10:44] <bogdanteleaga> wallyworld: https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1287949
[10:44] <mup> Bug #1287949: {image,tools}-metadata-url not usable w/ ec2 provider <arm64> <config> <hs-arm64> <ppc64el> <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1287949>
[10:57] <wallyworld> bogdanteleaga: by design, we currently only allow signed image metadata for ec2. i don't know the reason for that decision
[10:58] <wallyworld> the the metadata were to be signed, it would work
[10:58] <wallyworld> if
[10:58] <bogdanteleaga> yes, but as per the guy above me in the bug report
[10:59] <bogdanteleaga> there's no way of specifying a key
[10:59] <bogdanteleaga> so it has to be official?
[10:59] <fwereade> wallyworld, bogdanteleaga: nor do I, but it crosses my mind that we want to be sure that anything we think is the official source is signed with our key
[11:00] <wallyworld> fwereade: that is true, but for ec2 it currently requires user specified image metadata to be signed
[11:00] <bogdanteleaga> definitely makes sense, but then there's no way of specifying custom images
[11:00] <fwereade> wallyworld, bogdanteleaga: I can't see any reason not to allow either additional keys or to allow unsigned -- so long as we check our source
[11:00] <wallyworld> and i don't know why
[11:00] <fwereade> wallyworld, nor do I but I strongly suspect it was an all-we-had-time-for deal
[11:01] <wallyworld> maybe because - can people add custom images to ec2?
[11:01] <fwereade> wallyworld, yes, and IMO that's a good thing
[11:01] <wallyworld> maybe the reasoning was, well if you can't add cutom images....
[11:01] <bogdanteleaga> no, but there's no way of using a ec2 AMI that's not specified on cloud-images.ubuntu.com
[11:01] <bogdanteleaga> i.e. a windows ami
[11:01] <wallyworld> this was all done prior to windows :-)
[11:02] <wallyworld> so the code needs changing for windows
[11:02] <bogdanteleaga> yeah, I'm aware and I do understand
[11:02] <fwereade> wallyworld, bogdanteleaga: I strongly agree that is a bug and it's symptomatic of a wider one -- we have metadata generate-image, but a cloud configured to never work with it?
[11:02] <bogdanteleaga> was just signaling it's an actual bug and it's getting more important
[11:02] <wallyworld> fwereade: ec2 was configured to only use signed metadatsa before genetate metatdata came along
[11:03] <wallyworld> generate metadata was only for openstack
[11:03] <wallyworld> for private clouds
[11:03] <bogdanteleaga> and I wasn't aware it was a design decision until now
[11:03] <wallyworld> where there were no official images
[11:03] <wallyworld> bogdanteleaga: it made sense at the time because there were no unofficial images possible
[11:03] <fwereade> wallyworld, heh, not in my mind, I always thought that the ability to specify custom images was important, just that the way we were originally doing it was badwrongevil
[11:04] <wallyworld> fwereade: at the time, everything was based on simplestreams - that was our language
[11:04] <wallyworld> and only openstack had the need for custom images
[11:05] <wallyworld> and ec2 i think deliberately precluded them
[11:05] <fwereade> wallyworld, custom images are super-cool all over the place
[11:05] <bogdanteleaga> ok, so for a fix: do we want to allow unsigned or to allow specifying a key?
[11:05] <fwereade> wallyworld, if we *just* let people do this we can have the big data folks deploying an image with their JVM already in place
[11:05] <fwereade> wallyworld, and cut their deployment times like anything
[11:05] <wallyworld> fwereade: i agree, but at the time it was impossible to have custom images for aws
[11:06] <wallyworld> so why support something impossibe
[11:06] <fwereade> wallyworld, I am certain that I was building custom images for aws before even ensemble was a thing
[11:06] <wallyworld> i'm guessing - maybe it was a policy deciison
[11:06] <wallyworld> not sure now
[11:06] <wallyworld> bogdanteleaga: allow unsigned i think
[11:07] <wallyworld> to be consistent with ec2
[11:07] <wallyworld> openstack
[11:07] <wallyworld> i meant
[11:07] <bogdanteleaga> wallyworld: so I'm guessing ec2 is asking for signed only right? I was disabling it for everything for testing
[11:07] <wallyworld> fwereade: to answer your other question - i'm not sure why whole status record written each time - histerical reaosns?
[11:07] <wallyworld> bogdanteleaga: from memory there's a bool constant
[11:08] <fwereade> wallyworld, no, read each time, for copying into hysterical statues
[11:08] <fwereade> wallyworld, bogdanteleaga: it *would* IMO be best to allow specification of acceptable keys as well
[11:08] <wallyworld> fwereade: that's a bigger change, but sure
[11:09] <wallyworld> but do we really need that straight up?
[11:09] <fwereade> wallyworld, bogdanteleaga: and that feels like something that shouldn't take too much per-env configuration
[11:10] <fwereade> wallyworld, I am encouraging bogdanteleaga to do it, because apart from anything else I think security-conscious people *will* want to use signed simplestreams, and we're not going to sign the metadata for every OS we can deploy
[11:11] <wallyworld> i agree, just ensuring it's the right time to do it
[11:11] <bogdanteleaga> how about I enable the unsigned one, and add a todo+bug report for doing signed with key
[11:11] <fwereade> wallyworld, bogdanteleaga: that sgtm
[11:11] <wallyworld> that's what i was expecting to hapen
[11:11] <fwereade> wallyworld, bogdanteleaga: indeed
[11:12] <fwereade> bogdanteleaga, please talk it through with gsamfira_ though, I think it will be relevant if we expect Serious People to deploy a bunch of different OSs with juju
[11:13] <fwereade> wallyworld, anyway re status
[11:13] <fwereade> wallyworld, what I really want to do
[11:13] <fwereade> wallyworld, is have every setstatus method be
[11:14] <fwereade> go setHistoricalStatus(key, doc) // logs but ignore errors
[11:14] <fwereade> ...and then to just set txnal status as usual
[11:15] <fwereade> wallyworld, if I *just* do that, we'll miss one hostirical value around an upgrade
[11:15] <wallyworld> fwereade: looking at the code, it seems that it is excluing the actual current status from the history?
[11:15] <fwereade> wallyworld, and if I take on an upgrade step as well I will feel I've strayed too far from "enable leadership"
[11:16] <fwereade> wallyworld, hmm, hadn't looked there
[11:16] <fwereade> wallyworld, any particular reason?
[11:16] <fwereade> wallyworld, seems surprising
[11:16] <wallyworld> maybe "history" was taken as lieterally meaning in the past
[11:16] <wallyworld> but yeah surprising
[11:16] <fwereade> wallyworld, <pedant>latest know status is still part of history because it was set in the past
[11:17] <wallyworld> fwereade: i can't see a reason not to make the change you suggest
[11:17] <fwereade> wallyworld, cool, thanks
[11:19] <fwereade> wallyworld, oh hell, status history is still txnal in 1.24
[11:19] <fwereade> wallyworld, shouldn't it be backported?
[11:19] <wallyworld> damn, i'll ask horatio to backport - i thought it was done there
[11:20] <fwereade> wallyworld, no worries, thanks
[11:20] <wallyworld> sorry
[11:20] <fwereade> wallyworld, that's the trouble with branches, so many exciting opportunities to miss stuff
[11:21] <wallyworld> yeah
[11:21] <wallyworld> and we branched 1.24 off too early
[11:21] <wallyworld> way too early
[11:44] <fwereade> wallyworld, that too
[11:45] <fwereade> wallyworld, if you're still here: if I were to make SetStatus accept a StatusInfo, and apiserver responsible for setting the time, would that be a Bad Thing?
[11:46] <fwereade> wallyworld, I probably won't either way, am trying not to distract myself
[11:46] <wallyworld> i'd rather apiserver not contain any business logic
[11:46] <wallyworld> business logic should be in a separate service layer
[11:47] <wallyworld> other services may call the status service to set the status
[11:47] <wallyworld> and we'd want the status service to set the time
[11:48] <fwereade> wallyworld, so, apiserver->model->persistence, and the rules in model?
[11:48] <wallyworld> those other services may be co-located, hence the network layer would be short circuited
[11:48] <wallyworld> yes
[11:49] <wallyworld> i'd characterise it as apiserver->business_services->domain_model->persistence
[11:49] <wallyworld> business services sit on an enterprise bus
[11:50] <fwereade> well, that implies the model knowing about persistence rather than vice versa, but that's an aside
[11:50] <wallyworld> they operate on a domain model, the model is independent of persistence
[11:50] <fwereade> right
[11:50] <wallyworld> yea, the linear representation doesn't work
[11:50] <wallyworld> and the enterprise bus would provide pubsub, rpc, service discovery etc
[11:51] <fwereade> wallyworld, so something akin to https://blog.8thlight.com/uncle-bob/2012/08/13/the-clean-architecture.html
[11:51] <fwereade> wallyworld, or not?
[11:51] <wallyworld> looking
[11:51] <fwereade> wallyworld, because the representation as services doesn't *necessarily* fit
[11:52] <wallyworld> yeah, my concept doesn't quite fit that particular model
[11:53] <fwereade> wallyworld, and my current background thoughts are directed towards extracting an in-memory model layer, and moving business-rule responsibilities into there from state (but state still referencing the model)
[11:53] <fwereade> wallyworld, the main driver for this is the uncommitted-state/transactionality stuff
[11:53] <wallyworld> agree with the above, need to think about the bit in brackets
[11:54] <wallyworld> by state, do you mean "persistence"?
[11:54] <fwereade> wallyworld, in which I contend that having a dependency-free model representation, with a *single* and authoritative implementation of the business rules, is critical for composing and checking sanity of large logical operations without reference to db state
[11:54] <fwereade> wallyworld, yeah
[11:55] <fwereade> wallyworld, although it's sorta tricky because it's still going to have a bunch of consistency concerns that are hard enough to deserve thought
[11:55] <fwereade> wallyworld, so, "state" as shorthand for "what's in state today, referencing business rules defined elsewhere"
[11:55] <fwereade> state without the business rules
[11:55] <wallyworld> +1 for getting business rules right out of state
[11:56] <wallyworld> that would be a big win
[11:56] <wallyworld> for not that much effort in the big cheme of things
[11:56] <wallyworld> ideally, persistence would be abstracted so it were pluggable
[11:56] <wallyworld> that would help ensure a clean design
[11:57] <fwereade> wallyworld, well, if you have insights, I want you to share them, because... *all* our business rules are encoded in dynamically generated strings of transaction operations
[11:57] <wallyworld> fwereade: that's an artifact of out current implementation, and sadly ties us to mongo, and sadly weaves separate concerns together
[11:57] <fwereade> wallyworld, and I need a sane and comprehensible model of the world, its changes, and the conditions those changes require -- that I can effectively render down into txn operations
[11:58] <wallyworld> fwereade: we should be able to hand off model changes to a persistence layer, over a well defined interface boundary
[11:59] <wallyworld> we should nut this out next week
[11:59] <wallyworld> when i am less tired
[11:59] <fwereade> wallyworld, sgtm :)
[11:59] <wallyworld> flagging a bit atm
[11:59] <fwereade> wallyworld, sorry to keep you up
[11:59] <wallyworld> np, only 10pm but i'm tired
[11:59] <wallyworld> brain needs rest
[12:00] <wallyworld> hard to give decent answers and think deeply about complex issues
[12:00] <wwitzel3> it's best to just avoid it ;)
[12:26] <perrito666> morning
[12:31] <TheMue> heya perrito666
[12:41] <jam> fwereade: did I completely miss you guys on actions?
[12:41] <jam> jw4: ^^
[12:42] <jam> I realize I'm late coming out of the last meeting.
[12:42] <fwereade> jam, heyhey, jw4 is having mic troubles
[12:42] <jam> ah
[12:51] <natefinch-afk> nick natefinch
[12:51] <natefinch> heh
[12:51] <TheMue> *lol*
[12:57] <natefinch> man, I *love* that we made workload processes use plugins and not hardcoded stuff from juju-core.  It makes it trivial to produce specific fake technology plugins that mimic real ones without having to muddy juju-core codebase
[13:44] <mgz> mattyw: bug 1477157
[13:44] <mup> Bug #1477157: Broken windows dependencies <blocker> <ci> <regression> <windows> <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1477157>
[13:44] <mup> Bug #1477157 opened: Broken windows dependencies <blocker> <ci> <regression> <windows> <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1477157>
[13:45] <mattyw> mgz, ah crap, ack, I'll fix it
[13:45] <mgz> ta!
[13:52] <mattyw> mgz, https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/2860
[13:56] <dooferlad> TheMue: This is what I have so far for CreateSpace: https://github.com/juju/juju/compare/net-cli...dooferlad:net-cli-api-spaces-create?expand=1
[13:57] <mgz> mattyw: shipit
[13:57] <TheMue> dooferlad: one moment, will take a look in a few secs
[13:58] <dooferlad> TheMue: I am not doing any param checking in CreateSpace on the client side since the CLI already does that. This is also the case in api/action/client.go, but I wanted to start that conversation early.
[13:59] <TheMue> dooferlad: spaces.go line 34 has a typo
[14:00] <dooferlad> TheMue: wasn't expecting a full code review, I just want to discuss client side params checking.
[14:00] <TheMue> dooferlad: only seen it while flying over the code, eagle eyes *cough* *cough*
[14:02] <TheMue> dooferlad: what do you think, could it make sense to rename the params type now, from add to create? simply using the opportunity
[14:02] <dooferlad> TheMue: sure
[14:03] <TheMue> dooferlad: and when adding the subnetIds as tags into the params, don't work with append but make it with the right length and use the index
[14:06] <TheMue> dooferlad: rest looks fine so far, I maybe would move testCreateSpace as a closure into TestCreateSpace.
[14:06] <fwereade> perrito666, did wallyworld mention backporting status-history txnality to 1.24?
[14:07] <TheMue> dooferlad: a very good example for the while testing is dimiterns instancepoller
[14:07] <fwereade> perrito666, should be simple, 1.24 has state.Database now
[14:07] <perrito666> fwereade: yup. already assigned me a card :)
[14:07] <fwereade> perrito666, cool
[14:07] <fwereade> perrito666, would you ping me when it's ready to review, I will at some stage become blocked on it
[14:07] <perrito666> fwereade: sure
[14:08] <perrito666> fwereade: want to tell me more?
[14:08] <fwereade> perrito666, cheers
[14:08] <fwereade> perrito666, I have to do gated service.SetStatus
[14:09] <fwereade> perrito666, which means I need to at least touch the status-history storage
[14:09] <fwereade> perrito666, and I would rather someone else had that change in place before I got involved in the details
[14:10] <perrito666> fwereade: ill do as fast as possible :)
[14:10] <fwereade> perrito666, oh, and if you're doing that, would you please make the updateStatusHistory signature match all the other similar funcs? (st, globalkey, doc)
[14:11] <perrito666> fwereade: k
[14:12] <dooferlad> TheMue: http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/2241/
[14:22] <TheMue> dooferlad: reviewed
[14:22] <dooferlad> TheMue: Thanks!
[14:23] <TheMue> dooferlad: yw
[15:30] <mattyw> mgz, can we close this yet? https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1477157
[15:30] <mup> Bug #1477157: Broken windows dependencies <blocker> <ci> <regression> <windows> <juju-core:In Progress by mattyw> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1477157>
[15:31] <mattyw> bogdanteleaga, yeah - totally forgot to do the GOOS=windows thing
[15:31] <mattyw> bogdanteleaga, copied and pasted an old script :(
[15:31] <mgz> mattyw: really the process is let ci bless the branhc and close the bug itself
[15:32] <mattyw> mgz, ack
[15:34] <bogdanteleaga> mattyw: heh, I remember doing that a few times, but I got scared when I did git diff :)
[15:39] <mattyw> bogdanteleaga, I saw it in the diff, and got over excited by deps being removed
[15:49] <bogdanteleaga> mattyw: haha
[16:15] <dooferlad> TheMue: could you take a look again at that review?
[16:26] <mgz> okay, new run on 1.24 branch has started
[16:34] <perrito666> if you ever feel bad about a hack https://twitter.com/adrianchm/status/623485623538712576
[16:47] <natefinch> perrito666: lol, that's amazing
[17:24] <mup> Bug #1476996 changed: Network communication failed during juju bootstrap <bootstrap> <mongodb> <juju-core:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1476996>
[18:29] <mgz> juju upgrade on windows just passed for the first time.
[18:29]  * perrito666 cries
[18:48] <wwitzel3> ericsnow: ping
[18:49] <ericsnow> wwitzel3: hey
[18:49] <wwitzel3> ericsnow: never mind, I'm going ot look at the board
[18:49] <ericsnow> wwitzel3: k
[18:50] <wwitzel3> ericsnow: we have an issue with the charm in that without having destroy available .. we can't really do much other than add-relattion
[18:50] <wwitzel3> katco: ^
[18:51] <katco> wwitzel3: ah, because docker containers are static and need to be torn down anytime something changes?
[18:51] <wwitzel3> katco: right
[18:51] <ericsnow> wwitzel3: you could add a basic proc-destroy script to the charm that calls juju-process-docker destroy...
[18:54] <ericsnow> wwitzel3: in case you missed it, I didn't merge that --extends patch (we didn't get it quite right)
[18:54] <katco> wwitzel3: ericsnow: natefinch: wondering how critical it is to get that right just for the demo. we probably only need the container to spin up once, yeah?
[18:55] <katco> wwitzel3: ericsnow: natefinch: i.e. i don't know if it's worth the time to write a destroy script
[18:56] <ericsnow> katco: well, the script would just be a one-liner call to the plugin
[18:56] <wwitzel3> I don't even have to make a script
[18:56] <wwitzel3> I can just call it directly from the charm
[18:56] <wwitzel3> which I just tested, it works
[18:56] <ericsnow> wwitzel3: true
[18:57] <katco> wwitzel3: pft. over achiever
[18:58] <wwitzel3> I'm going a end to end of the latest charm now, no intervention, will see how it goes
[18:58]  * katco crosses fingers
[19:00] <wwitzel3> katco: it worked here, so please give it a try
[19:00] <wwitzel3> ericsnow: how did we get the parseUpdates wrong? ..
[19:00] <wwitzel3> ericsnow: nvm I'll look at the reivew
[19:00] <katco> wwitzel3: cool, pull from gh?
[19:00] <wwitzel3> katco: yep
[19:01] <ericsnow> wwitzel3: we weren't supposed to apply the updates to c.info
[19:01] <ericsnow> wwitzel3: I left a review comment
[19:06] <mup> Bug #1477263 opened: Enabling allow-lxc-loop-mounts can cause error when destroying an environment <juju-core:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1477263>
[19:16] <wwitzel3> ericsnow: so when I implement the changes you suggested, our test suite fails all over the place :(
[19:17] <ericsnow> wwitzel3: :(
[19:17] <ericsnow> wwitzel3: likely due to s.setMetadata calls
[19:18] <ericsnow> wwitzel3: I can take over that patch if you need to work on the charm
[19:18] <wwitzel3> ericsnow: that would be great
[19:18] <ericsnow> wwitzel3: k
[19:36] <katco> wwitzel3: hm. i think i'm doing something wrong
[19:36] <katco> wwitzel3: i deploy wordpress-wpm, i deploy mysql
[19:36] <katco> wwitzel3: i relate them
[19:36] <katco> wwitzel3: but wordpress-wpm is stuck in the install hook
[19:36] <wwitzel3> katco: the install can take a while .. since we pull the image down
[19:36] <wwitzel3> katco: how long has it been stuck?
[19:39] <katco> wwitzel3: most likely longer than it should be
[19:39] <katco> wwitzel3: like... 15m maybe? i dunno i'm hopping around a lot
[19:39] <katco> wwitzel3: actually more like 25 doing some timestamp math
[19:40] <katco> wwitzel3: what order do you do things in?
[19:40] <wwitzel3> katco: it shouldn't matter :)
[19:40] <katco> wwitzel3: very true :)
[19:40] <wwitzel3> katco: sounds like the install hook is getting hungup on the pull
[19:40] <katco> wwitzel3: debug-log just spams: unit-wordpress-wpm-0[2980]: 2015-07-22 19:40:44 INFO unit.wordpress-wpm/0.install logger.go:40
[19:41] <katco> wwitzel3: empty log message
[19:41] <katco> wwitzel3: so i'm not missing any steps? just need to relate the two, yeah?
[19:42] <wwitzel3> yep
[19:43] <wwitzel3> katco: I'm doing a fresh deploy, see if I get that same install hook hanging issue
[19:43] <katco> wwitzel3: k, i'm retrying as well
[19:48] <katco> wwitzel3: weird... docker.io is consuming most of the cpu
[19:48] <katco> wwitzel3: but the image isn't listed
[19:51] <katco> wwitzel3: any ideas why docker.io would be spinning? never seen that
[20:02] <wwitzel3> katco: no idea, my install hook is spinning as well
[20:03] <wwitzel3> katco: I am wondering if there is just not enough time between installing the docker.io service and starting it and issuing the pull
[20:03] <wwitzel3> katco: going to try it with a sleep, see if that helps
[20:03] <katco> wwitzel3: doesn't apt-get install docker.io start the docker.io service already?
[20:03] <katco> wwitzel3: instead of a sleep, query the status of the service
[20:06] <mup> Bug #1477281 opened: machine#0 jujud using ~100% cpu, slow to update units state <canonical-bootstack> <canonical-is> <juju-core:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1477281>
[20:07] <katco> running into bug 1168154 too
[20:07] <mup> Bug #1168154: Destroying a service in error state fails silently <destroy-service> <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1168154>
[20:08] <natefinch> ericsnow: process.Info.Id()'s comment states "ID composes a unique ID for the process" .... does that mean that we don't expect the process name to be unique?
[20:09] <ericsnow> natefinch: potentially
[20:09] <natefinch> ericsnow: the reason I ask is that the status output as stated in the spec is using the process name as the key to a map, so if there's a collision.... badness
[20:09] <ericsnow> natefinch: we had discussed support for launching multiple copies of a proc
[20:10] <ericsnow> natefinch: I suppose we can cross the bridge later
[20:11] <natefinch> we seem to be doing a lot of "let's worry about that later" with this feature, which makes me worry about it now.
[20:12] <ericsnow> natefinch: well, currently we don't support multiple copies of a proc (and we may never)
[20:13] <natefinch> ericsnow: fair enough
[20:13] <natefinch> ericsnow: I'm all good with YAGNI, so long as it's not YAGNIUNW  (You ain't gonna need it ... until next week)
[20:14] <ericsnow> natefinch: :)
[20:22] <bogdanteleaga> mgz: yay!
[20:22] <bogdanteleaga> perrito666: tears of joy? :p
[20:23] <perrito666> bogdanteleaga: ??
 juju upgrade on windows just passed for the first time.
[20:24] <bogdanteleaga> * perrito666 cries
[20:25] <perrito666> ah si
[20:25] <perrito666> yes
[20:26] <wwitzel3> katco: looks like there is an issue with the registry
[20:26] <wwitzel3> katco: I can't pull the wp container at all, atm
[20:26] <katco> wwitzel3: as in the official docker registry?
[20:26] <wwitzel3> katco: yeah
[20:26] <katco> wwitzel3: well that explains things lol. do they have a status page or something?
[20:27] <natefinch> oh great, one more thing to break
[20:28] <katco> wwitzel3: https://status.docker.com/
[20:28] <wwitzel3> katco: nope, but after running it 4 or 5 times it started working :)
[20:28] <wwitzel3> 2015/07/22 20:19:45 Could not find repository on any of the indexed registries.
[20:28] <wwitzel3> Pulling repository wordpress
[20:28] <wwitzel3> 48e924db07d1: Pulling dependent layers
[20:28] <wwitzel3> so now it works, lol
[20:30] <wwitzel3> aaaand now it doesn't work again, wtf
[20:31] <katco> wwitzel3: i wonder if there's a route issue b/t ec2 <-> registry?
[20:34] <wwitzel3> katco: something weird for sure, it is working locally jsut fine
[20:34] <katco> wwitzel3: again, top shows docker.io is spinning
[20:35] <katco> wwitzel3: i'll try pulling it manually, but yeah something odd is happening
[20:36] <katco> wwitzel3: whoa: $ docker pull wordpress
[20:36] <katco> 2015/07/22 20:35:39 Post http:///var/run/docker.sock/images/create?fromImage=wordpress&tag=: dial unix /var/run/doc
[20:36] <katco> ker.sock: permission denied
[20:36] <katco> wwitzel3: does it have to be sudo pull?
[20:37] <katco> wwitzel3: says job is already started. log doesn't have anything interesting
[20:41] <wwitzel3> katco: you have to be in the group or you have to be sudo, yes
[20:45] <katco> wwitzel3: cycled docker.io service, now: Could not find repository on any of the indexed registries.
[20:45] <katco> [a0bad6af] -job pull(wordpress, latest) = ERR (1)
[20:48] <wwitzel3> katco: yeah, something odd is going on since it was working with out incident the dozen other times I did it today
[20:48] <wwitzel3> and yesterday
[21:00] <mup> Bug #1477293 opened: Bootstrap attempts to use a private network address instead of the public address <bootstrap> <ec2-provider> <network> <juju-core:Triaged> <juju-core jes-cli:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1477293>
[21:03] <mup> Bug #1477293 changed: Bootstrap attempts to use a private network address instead of the public address <bootstrap> <ec2-provider> <network> <juju-core:Triaged> <juju-core jes-cli:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1477293>
[21:04] <katco> wwitzel3: so i'm pulling this manually from the ec instance, and it's doing "stuff", but it keeps returning to a header "pulling fs layer"
[21:05] <wwitzel3> katco: yeah, it should do that for a while
[21:05] <wwitzel3> katco: and download little bits and fs layers
[21:05] <katco> wwitzel3: just seems to be taking a long, long time
[21:05] <wwitzel3> katco: yeah, the registry isn't fast
[21:05] <wwitzel3> katco: I've had it take 20 minuites or longer to get an image
[21:05] <katco> wwitzel3: k
[21:09] <wwitzel3> katco: once I get another copy of it downloaded successfully
[21:09] <wwitzel3> katco: I'll put it in the charm and we can just load it locally
[21:09] <wwitzel3> katco: so we won't have to worry about network for it
[21:09] <katco> wwitzel3: good idea. or i wonder if we have a docker repo charmed up :)
[21:09] <mup> Bug #1477293 opened: Bootstrap attempts to use a private network address instead of the public address <bootstrap> <ec2-provider> <network> <juju-core:Triaged> <juju-core jes-cli:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1477293>
[21:19] <perrito666> katco: can I get an amen http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/2244/ ?
[21:20] <katco> perrito666: tal
[21:21]  * perrito666 brain makes an odd connection and its taken back to the past to the zope template attribute language
[21:23] <katco> perrito666: did we address fwereade's concern in the todo there?
[21:23] <perrito666> yup, that is what the pr does :D removing all trace of txn in status history
[21:23] <perrito666> pure raw metal.. err mongo insertion :p
[21:25] <katco> perrito666: i recall him disagreeing with that approach pretty strongly. i can't remember if it was ever resolved. hm
[21:26] <perrito666> katco: he did disagree with a previous patch, which led to uncovering an issue in envuuid automatic patching
[21:26] <perrito666> I recalled that pr and made this new one
[21:26] <katco> perrito666: well not just the patch, but the idea of doing "raw" mongo ops w/o txns
[21:27] <perrito666> katco: in this particular case it was his idea to completely remove, history works much like logs
[21:27] <perrito666> we push on the top and remove on the bottom
[21:28] <katco> perrito666: yeah i recall the counter-argument, i guess i never saw it get resolved
[21:28] <katco> perrito666: i have a meeting now, ian is in it, so i'll talk to him too
[21:28] <perrito666> fantastic :)
[21:33] <katco> perrito666: you're good! :D
[21:34] <cmars> waigani or menn0, could one of you review http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/2167/?
[21:37] <perrito666> oh, blocked again, it was good while it lasted
[21:40] <menn0> cmars: i'll take a look
[21:40] <cmars> menn0, thanks!
[21:48] <ericsnow> wwitzel3: http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/2245/
[21:50] <perrito666> bbl
[21:51] <menn0> cmars: done. just a few little things.
[21:53] <menn0> cmars: fwereade is right though: this will need to change soon when env destruction is done properly. But this is fine for now.
[21:54] <sinzui> katco: https://launchpad.net/juju-core/1.26 exists. I as does https://launchpad.net/juju-core/+milestone/1.26.0
[21:54] <katco> sinzui: ty sir!
[21:56] <cmars> menn0, ok, we'll have to watch out for that .. any advance notice would be helpful, we're ready to make whatever changes necessary
[22:00] <menn0> cmars: you guys might not need to worry about it. we just have to move when the last ditch metric sending happens to somewhere else.
[22:00] <cmars> menn0, gotcha
[22:01] <menn0> cmars: the plan is to have a state server worker that manages environment life cycle instead of doing env destruction synchronously in the api call
[22:02] <menn0> cmars: b/c as it stands if anything goes wrong (e.g. machine destruction get stuck) the user has very little visibility
[22:02] <menn0> cmars: we also need to shut down things like storage in a more controlled fashion
[22:03] <menn0> cmars: all this will happen "soon". we'll keep you in the loop but you don't need to worry too much about it.
[22:03] <cmars> menn0, ack. cool stuff. the env lifecycle mgmt sounds especially interesting
[22:04] <katco> sinzui: i proposed a blueprint for 1.26... who does that approval go to?
[22:04] <menn0> cmars: interesting/necessary whatever :)
[22:05] <sinzui> katco: I think mramm, the driver of the project
[22:05] <katco> sinzui: ah ok
[22:05] <sinzui> wallyworld: abentley my go1.4 juju on vivid is succeeding
[22:05] <wallyworld> oh interesting
[22:06] <wallyworld> can we drop the bug then :-)
[22:07] <katco> sinzui: what is feature-proc-mgmt in this context? https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/feature-proc-mgmt
[22:09] <sinzui> katco: There is/was a branch in github that was tested and failed. We registered the series to report bugs against it
[22:10] <katco> sinzui: ah ok. i just created a blueprint... would it make more sense to report bugs against that? or is series considered a branch in lp parlance?
[22:11] <sinzui> katco: I wish the later part of your statement was 100% true. A series should be assocated with a branch. A line of development that changes will be made too. Lp doesn't enforce the branch
[22:12] <katco> sinzui: would it be an imposition to ask you to target bugs against the blueprint instead?
[22:13] <sinzui> katco: Thate is difficult to do
[22:13] <katco> sinzui: in an automated fashion, or just in general?
[22:13] <sinzui> katco: bugs can be linked ot a blueprint, but since the blueprint feasture is broken in many places, I cannot do it
[22:14] <katco> sinzui: oh, it's a permissions/lacking feature thing?
[22:14] <sinzui> also the blueprints cannot be managed by the team. You for example could make the milkestone and series, but blueprints don't have sane ownership
[22:15] <katco> sinzui: not sure what you mean? i am the starter, drafter, and assignee, and i can link bugs... do you mean no one BUT the starter can assign bugs?
[22:17] <sinzui> katco I am not writing software to use blueprints, you are free to link issues you want fixes in blueprints. CI is not concerned with feature planning
[23:24] <thumper> wallyworld: menno said he'd look at the go 1.3 on vivid issue
[23:44] <menn0> sinzui: ping?
[23:45] <menn0> sinzui, wallyworld: i'm trying to be sure what the aws-deploy-trusty-amd64-on-vivid-amd64 CI job does
[23:45] <menn0> I think it means, deploy an EC2 env using trusty instances, with the client running on vivid
[23:45] <menn0> sinzui, wallyworld, mgz: is that right?
[23:47] <mgz> menn0: that's correct
[23:47] <mgz> menn0: it's mostly just exercising the vivid client
[23:48] <mgz> menn0: unrelated, I added some comments to the rackspace provider review
[23:48] <menn0> mgz: ok cool. i only managed to look at some of it.
[23:49] <menn0> mgz: i'm currently looking at bug 1477293
[23:49] <mup> Bug #1477293: Bootstrap fails to connect on vivid/go 1.3 <blocker> <bootstrap> <ci> <ec2-provider> <network> <vivid> <juju-core:Triaged> <juju-core 1.24:Triaged by menno.smits> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1477293>
[23:49] <menn0> mgz: I can only see one CI run where bootstrap failed due to not being able to connect
[23:49] <mgz> menn0: on the ssh bug, I feel like it's just as likely to be another manifestation of ssh config screwing up juju as anything else
[23:49] <menn0> mgz: and it works for me
[23:49] <menn0> mgz: the other failed runs with the same rev seem to be something else
[23:50] <menn0> mgz: so i'm looking at that
[23:50] <mgz> juju 1.24 makes ssh generally dodgy in the presence of any existing ssh setup
[23:50] <menn0> mgz: what do you mean by "any existing ssh setup"?
[23:50] <mgz> eg, I have ~/.ssh/config with stuff in it and an agent and several keys
[23:51] <mgz> juju doesn't like me much.
[23:51] <wallyworld> thumper: menn0: sorry, just got out of meeting, reading backscroll
[23:51] <menn0> mgz: hmmm, I have that too and it works for me. but of course it might something specific in your config.
[23:51] <mgz> menn0: the other failed runs at the same rev look like job setup debugging
[23:52] <menn0> mgz: the bootstrap is failing: "Bootstrap failed, destroying environment"
[23:52] <menn0> mgz: but i'm not sure why
[23:52] <wallyworld> menn0: mgz: sinzui switched to go 1.4 and said it worked
[23:52] <mgz> nah, he tried the same thing via osx which happens to use go 1.4 and it works
[23:52] <menn0> Juju cannot bootstrap because no tools are available for your environment.
[23:52] <wallyworld> if it is a go 1.3 issue, then i say we don't fix anything
[23:52] <menn0> mgz: there it is
[23:53] <wallyworld> mgz: oh, i thought we were going to use everything the exact same, but just switck go verson
[23:53] <menn0> so the earlier CI failures were due to missing tools
[23:54] <mgz> oh, he did also use go 1.4 on ubuntu, but wily
[23:54] <mgz> but that's still proxuing through a different machine
[23:54] <wallyworld> but we want a controlled experiement
[23:54] <mgz> so it's hard to make it identical
[23:54] <wallyworld> only changde one thing
[23:55] <wallyworld> can't we switch go version on the vivid machine
[23:56] <mgz> we could download and build go 1.4 on that machine and make the job use it maybe
[23:57] <katco> wwitzel3: /entrypoint.sh apach   19 minutes ago      Exited (1)
[23:57] <katco> wwitzel3: 2015/07/22 23:36:38 Stopping proxy on tcp/[::]:8080 for tcp/<IP_ADDRESS>:80 (accept tcp [::]:8080: use of closed network connection)
[23:59] <mgz> I think going through the workspace runner just tickles ssh issues


[18:07] <Unit193> belkinsa: While we shouldn't rush into things, it'd be good to respond.
[18:07] <belkinsa> Right, on it!
[18:08] <Unit193> Erm, the thing about not rushing into it?  Good to respond was just my opinion, no need to rush into it.
[18:09] <belkinsa> I knew what you meant.  I was going to just write a status update to her since we had a meeting and you and I tried to get talk ideas down.
[18:23] <belkinsa> And done.
[18:24] <belkinsa> I also asked her for help also to see if there is a difference if she asks.
[21:49] <thafreak> jrgifford: you still running the cleveland lug?
[21:50] <belkinsa> Speaking of LUGs (and UH), is the one for Cincy and Butler gone?
[21:50] <belkinsa> Ones*
[22:09] <thafreak> Is anyone in here from cincy or butler?
[22:09]  * belkinsa me
[22:09]  * belkinsa is*
[22:10] <belkinsa> Maybe it's just me now from the area
[22:10] <thafreak> I know there used to be others...but haven't heard from them in a while
[22:10] <thafreak> int0x80 moved to california
[22:11] <belkinsa> Using the mailing-list might be pointless since no one really replies.
[22:16] <thafreak> well, the mailling list used to be fun
[22:16] <thafreak> but anytime it got even a little bit silly, there would be mass unsubscription
[22:17] <belkinsa> And it looks like we had two, LP and the Lists one


[11:44] <enyc> Mekaneck: =) thankyou for arranging that.
[11:44] <enyc> freenode scandals continue unabated...
[14:21] <Mekaneck> enyc: you're welcome :)
[14:24] <enyc> Mekaneck: raises interesting questions  what irc-clients  installed with (or installable on)  ubuntu-MATE  set default irc-server to point to freenode...
[14:24] <Mekaneck> hmmm... that i don't know
[14:33] <enyc> Mekaneck: can you check?  probably simple bug reports to create as-needbe
[14:38] <Mekaneck> i'm not using Ubuntu Mate
[14:41] <enyc> I'm suspecting ubuntu-mate somewhat falling out of fashion
[14:42] <enyc> linuxmint-mate seems more popular mate-variant  and then  machines changed and so on  so less needde niche if i'm not mistaken but there we go
[14:42] <Mekaneck> But iirc Hexchat is pointing towards freenode, maybe they'll change it to Libera for the 21.10 release
[14:43] <enyc> Mekaneck: hrrm not clear what files it uses to do that may need invistigcaiton ;p
[14:55] <alkisg> The welcome screen "chat room" button links to "wimpy's world on discord"
[14:55] <alkisg> hexchat doesn't seem preinstalled anymore, in 21.04
[15:13] <enyc> alkisg: ok but was in 20.04 LTS and 18.04 LTS installs?
[15:19] <alkisg> # mount -o loop,ro ubuntu-mate-16.04.6-desktop-amd64.iso /mnt
[15:19] <alkisg> # mount -o ro /mnt/casper/filesystem.squashfs /mnt
[15:19] <alkisg>  # chroot /mnt dpkg -l | grep hexchat
[15:19] <alkisg> ii  hexchat                                2.10.2-1ubuntu3                              amd64        IRC client for X based on X-Chat 2
[15:19] <alkisg> It's there in 16.04, not in 18.04 or 20.04
[15:19] <alkisg> (meh matrix thinks # is "header")
[15:20] <alkisg> Same result via seeds: https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/seeds/ubuntu-mate.xenial/desktop
[15:20] <alkisg> There in xenial, not in focal