[00:01] <ali1234> so i htink i figured out how the atrix actually works
[00:01] <ali1234> it's not chroot or anything like that
[00:01] <ali1234> i believe it's a full hypervisor with a virtualized usb connection between the two devices
[00:02] <ali1234> and then all the integration is done the same way as if you had a separate phone and computer connected by usb
[00:02] <ali1234> note that you can access the desktop of an android phone with debug bridge over usb or wireless
[00:02] <ali1234> and also query number of messages etc
[00:03] <ali1234> so the question then is, will i be able to get this fancy integration when i plug a real android phone into an ubuntu computer?
[00:06] <BigRedS> Oh, I'd assumed containers or something
[00:07] <BigRedS> I say 'or something', but I mean exactly containers
[00:07] <ali1234> vmware were running demos of android and ubuntu on pandaboard at one point
[00:07] <ali1234> or some arm board
[00:08] <penguin42> ali1234: Oh I see, I'd assumed it wasn't virtualised
[00:09] <ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsyh5_4Dz2c
[00:10] <penguin42> ali1234: No, I mean I'd assumed the ubuntu thing wasn't
[00:10] <ali1234> hypervisor doesn't care what you run :)
[00:11] <ali1234> ah here's the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNo6pn-dnSQ
[00:12] <ali1234> windows CE and android running on N800
[00:13] <BigRedS> ah yeah, I remember that
[00:17] <ali1234> ah supposedly it uses this http://www.ok-labs.com/
[00:20] <ali1234> http://wiki.ok-labs.com/ hey i recognise that guy on the frnt page
[00:21] <ali1234> oh my bad, different guy
[00:55] <ball> I feel deprived. I didn't get to eat any pancakes today.
[00:55] <ball> Hello webpigeon
[01:30] <Azelphur> I really love my advertising company lol
[01:30] <Azelphur> "We <3 patches" *Submit bugfix* "Thanks for the help, have a CS:GO beta key"
[01:32] <ali1234> your advertising company?
[01:32] <ali1234> also what's CS:GO?
[01:32] <Azelphur> ali1234: the company that pays me to show their adverts, CS:GO is an upcoming valve title I plan on hosting for
[01:34] <ali1234> yeah, but what is it?
[01:34] <Azelphur> ali1234: http://pinion.gg
[01:35] <ali1234> no, CS:GO?
[01:35] <ali1234> i assume it's a FPS?
[01:35] <Azelphur> yea
[01:35] <Azelphur> counter strike: global offensive
[01:36] <Azelphur> I would play it, but steams down as usual :D
[01:37] <ali1234> heh
[01:37] <ali1234> you should branch out into games that aren't FPS games
[01:38] <Azelphur> like minecraft, we've got a nice minecraft server about to go public :P
[01:38] <ali1234> i thought it was already public
[01:38] <Azelphur> it was, everything broke with 1.8 and Bukkit was so slow releasing the 1.0 update that it just died
[01:38] <ali1234> i was thinking more like yahoo games type stuff
[01:38] <ali1234> you can stuff way more advertising into web games
[01:39] <Azelphur> so now we've redone the whole thing and are planning to get it back out again, but it's /hugely/ improved :p
[01:39] <Azelphur> ali1234: yea, but those games are boring :(
[01:39] <ali1234> you don't have to play them
[01:41] <Azelphur> ali1234: perhaps, but I'm mostly valueadded atm
[01:43] <ali1234> what does that mean?
[01:44] <Azelphur> ali1234: I take the games, add cool things to them, decent support and quality hosting, tada.
[01:45] <Azelphur> our unmodified TF2 server receives the least traffic by far, compared to our modified one
[01:46] <ali1234> "homework help" forum. lol
[01:53] <Azelphur> ali1234: agree'd on the terrible forum layout >.>
[01:54] <Azelphur> and the terrible website in general
[01:54] <Azelphur> It's all being replaced
[02:26]  * penguin42 wonders if this is the whole reason for the package name     Unpacking replacement cheese ...
[07:17] <czajkowski> aloha
[07:38] <TheOpenSourcerer> !python-psycopg2
[07:39] <TheOpenSourcerer> !info python-psycopg2
[07:39] <TheOpenSourcerer> !info python-psycopg2 lucid
[07:40] <TheOpenSourcerer> !info python-psycopg2 +1
[07:40] <TheOpenSourcerer> !info python-psycopg2 precise
[07:41] <czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: having fun there?
[07:41] <TheOpenSourcerer> :-D
[07:45] <mattt> morning
[07:52] <DJones> Morning all
[07:52] <Myrtti> mmmöh.
[07:58] <TheOpenSourcerer> Good Morning my fine feathered friends... How are we all today then?
[08:00] <czajkowski> fandiddlytastic
[08:08] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu for Android: The Response - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/02/22/ubuntu-for-android-the-response/
[08:17] <diplo> Morning all
[08:25] <daubers> Morning
[08:34] <BigRedS> good morning!
[08:35] <Myrtti> I'm feeling a bit sad now for not getting a puzzle piece cookie cutter printed on Saturday
[08:35] <Myrtti> could have made puzzle donuts today
[08:37] <TheOpenSourcerer> Anyone fancy helping me think about doing redirects (apache or nginx - not really product specific) for a few minutes?
[08:37] <mattt> that ubuntu on the phone w/ docking station is very nice
[08:37]  * mattt wants
[08:54] <BigRedS> TheOpenSourcerer: think about doing redirects, or actually do redirects? :)
[08:54] <BigRedS> but, yeah, I can offer Apache flavoured suggestions
[08:54] <TheOpenSourcerer> Cool - Thanks BigRedS. Hang on.
[08:56] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[08:57] <BigRedS> no worries.
[08:57] <BigRedS> good morning!
[08:58] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps of irc :)
[08:58] <brobostigon> good morning BigRedS and bigcalm
[08:59] <bigcalm> Hi brobostigon
[09:08]  * dwatkins finds it amusing that when he went to google for a fourier transform application he discovered that it's Heinrich Rudolf Hertz's birthday
[09:09] <bigcalm> That is a fun animation
[09:21] <dwatkins> indeed it is
[09:38]  * gord has the pancake regrets
[09:41] <czajkowski> gord: that'll learn you
[09:41] <gord> seeing as i get the pancake regrets every year, i don't think it will
[09:41] <mattt> regretting you didn't eat enough pancakes?
[09:41] <bigcalm> Has anybody told the Canonical design team that they now endorse goatse?
[09:42] <bigcalm> My regret is that we didn't have any :(
[09:42]  * AlanBell regrets that not enough batter was made
[09:42] <AlanBell> bigcalm: yes, I believe it has been noted
[09:42] <mattt> bigcalm: goatse, where?
[09:42] <gord> they displayed that logo on a giant banner at last uds
[09:42] <bigcalm> I know it's been noted by the community, but still...
[09:43] <bigcalm> gord: and thus were commited?
[09:43] <czajkowski> bigcalm: aye jon said the exact same thing last night when he saw the image
[09:43] <AlanBell> http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/android ready to talk
[09:44] <AlanBell> I don't really get what the image is supposed to represent
[09:45] <AlanBell> "get in touch" perhaps. If you are E.T.
[09:47] <mattt> heh, i don't even recognize that image
[09:47]  * mattt needs more 4chan
[09:47] <czajkowski> http://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/q08zm/the_internet_has_ruined_me_seen_on_ubuntu_site/
[09:48] <JamesTait> Good morning all!
[09:49] <czajkowski> JamesTait: herrrro how were the lemons
[09:49] <JamesTait> czajkowski: Lemony. :)
[09:51] <JamesTait> czajkowski: I was quite chuffed with the experiment actually. The LED was actually lit, although it doesn't show up well on the photo.
[09:51] <czajkowski> JamesTait: oh didnt realise that
[09:53] <JamesTait> czajkowski: Connagh asked me the other day how batteries are made, so when we needed to get a lemon for the pancakes I said "Get a bag full, I've got a plan."
[09:55] <czajkowski> JamesTait: how do you say Connagh ?
[09:55] <JamesTait> czajkowski: Same way as Connor. ;)
[09:55] <JamesTait> czajkowski: Or Conor.
[09:56] <czajkowski> so what kind of spelling or variation is that ?
[09:56] <JamesTait> czajkowski: We thought the world needed another way to spell it. :-P
[09:56] <czajkowski> right
[09:56] <czajkowski> :)
[09:57] <JamesTait> czajkowski: It's an embarrassing mistake. :)
[09:57] <czajkowski> there are reasons my sister and I do not have Irish names :) besides the obvious of them not really going with the surname
[09:57] <czajkowski> JamesTait: too late to change, or is he always going to get asked why it is spelt that way
[09:57] <JamesTait> czajkowski: I saw Connah's Quay pass by on the football scores, and I could have sworn it had a 'g' in it.
[09:57] <AlanBell> lol
[09:58] <AlanBell> my kids have Irish middle names
[09:59] <JamesTait> czajkowski: We could change it, but why bother? He's always spelled it that way and people don't usually bat an eyelid when we correct their misspelling. :-P
[09:59] <czajkowski> JamesTait: they're not misspelling it :)
[09:59] <AlanBell> Aoife, Catriona, Cormac
[09:59] <czajkowski> but he will be unique :)
[09:59] <TheOpenSourcerer> Gosh.
[09:59] <JamesTait> czajkowski: Yeah, OK, I'll give you that. ;)
[09:59]  * TheOpenSourcerer just found out what goatse is :-(
[10:00] <JamesTait> TheOpenSourcerer: NSFW. :-P
[10:00] <AlanBell> now un-see it
[10:00] <TheOpenSourcerer> Indeed.
[10:00]  * JamesTait is bored of waiting for the insurance company.
[10:01] <mattt> JamesTait: reminds me of first time i saw siobahn :-/
[10:01] <TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: That is impossible. a bit like TGOC
[10:02] <JamesTait> mattt: Well at least Connagh kind of looks like how it often gets pronounced: Conn-AAAAAAGGGGGHHHHH!
[10:02] <czajkowski> mattt: aye Siobhan pretty name
[10:05] <mattt> czajkowski: nearly had a facepalm moment w/ that one tho
[10:06] <czajkowski> we used to find it odd listening to correnation st the way they said deidre
[10:06] <czajkowski> gah so help me am gonna start to get royally peeved off now when I alt tab on irc all my window goes white or transparent
[10:06] <czajkowski> so flipping annoying
[10:07]  * gord puts off doing that review for another day ;)
[10:07]  * czajkowski kicks gord
[10:07] <czajkowski> no more bickies or tea ever for you
[10:08] <drhodesmumby> I walk in to find violence against gord? D:
[10:08] <drhodesmumby> What's he done to deserve such treatment?
[10:12] <AlanBell> he let some code escape the safety of his laptop
[10:30] <drhodesmumby> Seems a bit harsh AlanBell, unless said code was a nuclear launch code.
[10:31] <drhodesmumby> In which case I would find the question of why he possesses them considerably more interesting!
[10:31] <AlanBell> he is in your alt key breaking your screenshots
[10:33] <drhodesmumby> Not mah screenshots!
[10:33] <drhodesmumby> Oh teh noes!
[10:40] <bigcalm> Has anybody seen my motivation this morning?
[10:42] <czajkowski> bigcalm: hows the lighthouse?
[10:42] <bigcalm> czajkowski: that's tomorrow
[10:42] <czajkowski> ahh
[10:42] <bigcalm> Hopefully warmer than last week
[10:42] <bigcalm> Tonight will be my 1st attendance of Wolves LUG though
[10:43] <bigcalm> So I get an extra dose of mrevell and davmor2
[10:43] <bigcalm> mrevell: are you attending tonight and do you want a lift?
[10:47] <bigcalm> I shall use the A41/A5 and save myself a LOT of stress :)
[10:47] <mrevell> bigcalm, Hello! I'm unlikely to attend tonight. I have a work call at 20.00. Thanks for the lift offer; I'd have to drive myself if I were coming as I can't say when I'd be ready.
[10:48] <bigcalm> mrevell: ok
[10:50] <mattt> bigcalm: lighthouse?
[10:51] <Azelphur> hmm, ssh-copy-id has stopped working for me, it says it worked and that I should try sshing the machine, but when I do so it prompts me for the password again \o/
[10:51] <diplo> Really must get round to trying ssh-copy at some point
[10:51]  * diplo is still manual atm
[10:52] <AlanBell> I think it only works on the standard port
[10:52] <AlanBell> but it normally works well for me
[10:52] <Azelphur> yea it normally works well for me it just seems to have gone sideways
[10:52] <bigcalm> mattt: The Lighthouse media centre in Wolverhampton. Home workers such as mrevell, davmor2, myself and occasional others turn up every 2 weeks on a Thursday to do work.
[11:02] <davmor2> morning all
[11:02] <popey> that
[11:02] <bigcalm> Ah, davmor2, just the person. Good morning
[11:02]  * davmor2 runs away
[11:02] <bigcalm> Bwuhaha
[11:02] <davmor2> bigcalm: what, what?
[11:03] <bigcalm> davmor2: tonight's LUG meeting. The pub serves food I believe. Do LUG attendees actually eat there or would I be the only one?
[11:03] <davmor2> no most people eat there
[11:03] <bigcalm> Ah, cool
[11:04] <bigcalm> Means that I can have me a pint as well (not drinking on an empty tum)
[11:05] <davmor2> OI czajkowski PROD! morning
[11:05] <davmor2> MooDoo: me owld mukka
[11:06] <czajkowski> davmor2: herrrro greetings from millbank
[11:06] <davmor2> czajkowski: oh get you working from across the river
[11:06] <czajkowski> aye go me
[11:16] <s-fox> Hello.
[11:25]  * bigcalm considers parking at Fold St car park: a) it's free after 6pm, b) the walk across town will do me good
[11:25] <bigcalm> c) I know how to get to it ;)
[11:25] <Azelphur> Is it safe to pastebin the output from ssh -vv?
[11:25] <Azelphur> or does it contain lots of bad things
[11:26] <bigcalm> Azelphur: you might want to mask public IP addresses
[11:26] <Azelphur> *shrug* local connection \o/
[11:26] <bigcalm> Passwords shouldn't be shown
[11:27] <Azelphur> So here's the ssh -vv if anyone has any idea about my ssh-copy-id issue http://pastebin.com/aehQ5s4S
[11:27] <Azelphur> I get automatic login, but only if I already have an ssh session open with the remote host, besides that it doesn't connect
[11:32] <diplo> ebug1: Trying private key: /home/azelphur/.ssh/id_dsa
[11:32] <diplo> debug1: Trying private key: /home/azelphur/.ssh/id_ecdsa
[11:32] <diplo> debug2: we did not send a packet, disable method
[11:32] <Azelphur> so why's it not sending it? :(
[11:32] <diplo> Only issues I've had before are permissions on .ssh dir on remote host
[11:33] <diplo> It's kinda strict about that
[11:33] <Azelphur> http://paste.ubuntu.com/852527/
[11:33] <Azelphur> pretty sure it's fine :(
[11:33] <diplo> the dir itself
[11:34] <Azelphur> drwx------  2 bitcoin bitcoin     4096 2011-06-02 01:30 .ssh
[11:35] <diplo> http://www.noah.org/wiki/SSH_public_keys
[11:35] <diplo> Looks fine tbh
[11:35] <Azelphur> \o/
[11:35] <Azelphur> my keys are working fine for other servers
[11:35] <Azelphur> it's just this one specific box
[11:36] <diplo> yeah it's the .ssh dir on remote sites that I always have issues with, our staff seem to screw with the companies users profile everytime :(
[11:36] <Azelphur> \o/
[11:36] <diplo> Only other issue I have is that the rsa srting isn't one string
[11:37] <diplo> So hasn't been copied correctly
[11:37] <Azelphur> if I remove .ssh/authorized_keys on the remote is that likely to fix it?
[11:37] <Azelphur> I'm the only person accessing it anyway
[11:37] <diplo> yeah it will just stop auto login which doesn't work anyway
[11:37] <diplo> :)
[11:38] <Azelphur> yep, that fixed it \o/
[11:38] <Azelphur> ty :)
[11:38] <ali1234> do you have multiple key pairs?
[11:38] <Azelphur> wat
[11:38] <ali1234> it's a fairly simple question :/
[11:39] <Azelphur> haha, but I don't know hardly anything about ssh \o/
[11:40] <ali1234> when you run ssh-copy-id it uploads your public key to the remote host
[11:40] <Azelphur> ali1234: nah I only have the one
[11:41] <ali1234> if you have multiple keys it sometimes causes problems if ssh picks the wrong one
[11:42] <ali1234> like if you have two keys and only one has been put on the server
[11:42] <Azelphur> ali1234: I have reloaded a couple times and had my keys change, looks like the server had a bunch of old keys in it, could be the case
[11:43] <ali1234> that could do it, maybe if you had the same name for the key
[11:43] <Azelphur> :'( it's prompting for password again
[11:43] <Azelphur> and I only have one entry in the remote .ssh/authorized_keys
[11:44] <directhex> you're putting the contents of id_rsa.pub, not id_rsa?
[11:44] <directhex> it's not line wrapped?
[11:44] <Azelphur> I'm not touching any files
[11:44] <Azelphur> I'm just doing ssh-copy-id user@remote, it's saying it all went well, but I'm still getting a password prompt
[11:45] <popey> is the target user home directory /home/<user>/ ?
[11:45] <popey> and not some other random path?
[11:46] <diplo> Also not rsa2
[11:46] <ali1234> ~/.ssh/authorized_keys on the remote should be exactly the same file as ~/.ssh/id_<whatever>.pub on the local
[11:46] <Azelphur> popey: yes
[11:47] <andyloughran> howdy :)
[11:47] <Azelphur> ali1234: it is :)
[11:47] <ali1234> hmm actually there might be an extra trailing newline on one of them
[11:47] <andyloughran> guys, is there a build of andrubuntu that I can put on my S2 using odin ?
[11:47] <ali1234> but other than that
[11:47] <ali1234> andyloughran: NO
[11:47] <andyloughran> ali :p
[11:47] <andyloughran> I guess I'm not the first to ask
[11:47] <andyloughran> only saw jono's post this morning
[11:48] <ali1234> actually, you are
[11:48] <popey> heh
[11:48] <popey> the first _here_
[11:48] <ali1234> Azelphur: how many id_*.pub files do you have in ~/.ssh/ on local machine?
[11:48] <andyloughran> wahey!
[11:49] <Azelphur> ali1234: 1
[11:49] <ali1234> Azelphur: hmm :/
[11:49] <ali1234> andyloughran: odin is the samsung flashing tool right?
[11:49] <andyloughran> what about hacking the firmware on my Samsung LCD to add ubuntu TV
[11:49] <andyloughran> ali1234: yeah
[11:49] <andyloughran> :p
[11:50] <ali1234> well, the thing is..... the whole thing relies on the phone already having a hypervisor
[11:51] <ali1234> and the necessary drivers of course
[11:51] <AlanBell> which is just that obscure motorola thing
[11:51] <AlanBell> well might not be obscure, just I never heard of it before yesterday
[11:51] <ali1234> the hypervisor is't motorola actually, it's made by open labs
[11:52] <andyloughran> hmm, I have the Samsung TV that was used for the demo
[11:52] <andyloughran> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTA0MDc
[11:52] <ali1234> see okl4.org
[11:52] <ali1234> i don't know anything about the TV demo
[11:54] <AlanBell> what is the difference between a TV and an HDMI monitor?
[11:54] <ali1234> AlanBell: a TV has a tuner?
[11:54] <popey> and a remote contorl
[11:54] <popey> *control
[11:54] <AlanBell> so I didn't get that part of the demo with the phone
[11:54] <ali1234> and if it's a decent TV, a lot of deinterlacing and motion compensation hardware
[11:54] <seeker> Generally more processing in a TV
[11:54] <popey> it was easier to just show you with one screen
[11:55] <AlanBell> they unplugged it from what looked like a TV, then plugged it into what looked like a TV
[11:55] <AlanBell> and announced now, this is a TV
[11:55] <popey> what don't you get?
[11:55] <AlanBell> the phone demo
[11:55] <popey> what don't you get?
[11:55]  * Myrtti facepalms at Finnish media publishing a story based on Canonical press release on "how Android phones will soon have Linux"
[11:56] <popey> haha
[11:56] <ali1234> wrong on so many levels
[11:56] <Myrtti> it's not even the only mistake
[11:56] <bigcalm> Awww
[11:56] <ali1234> but hey
[11:56] <AlanBell> I don't get how you get a different experience from a monitor to a TV, which was implied in the demo
[11:56] <ali1234> the announcement was pretty misleading to start with
[11:56] <Myrtti> "version of Ubunta"
[11:56] <popey> ok, here's a scenario
[11:57] <awilkins> They were running Ubuntu TV on the phone as well as Ubuntu Desktop... I think there may be some smoke and mirrors there concerning how it knows what's a TV and whats a monitor - it must be preconfigured depending on the device identifier
[11:57] <popey> on the way to work, phone in pocket, catching up with email, using phone as a phone
[11:57] <Myrtti> "smart phone docked to the desktop computer works beside the phone" WHUT
[11:57] <popey> get to work, plug into dock, phone says "A dock! I will switch to 'Desktop mode'"
[11:57] <popey> pull phone out of dock, phone says "No dock, time to be a phone again"
[11:57] <ali1234> popey: we understand the idea
[11:57] <ali1234> the point is, the video didn't make it very clear
[11:58] <AlanBell> so dock=desktop, cable=tv?
[11:58] <popey> ok, I'll stop
[11:58] <ali1234> AlanBell: the dock can say "i'm a TV" or "i'm a desktop workstation"
[11:58] <awilkins> AlanBell,  You could probably infer that you wanted to be a desktop or TV from the lack of keyboard
[11:58] <ali1234> because it's just a USB device
[11:58] <popey> or the existence of a remote contorl
[11:58] <awilkins> Or from the device identifier of the screen
[11:58] <popey> *control
[11:58] <awilkins> Or whatever
[11:58] <ali1234> exactly
[11:59] <AlanBell> ok, I see now
[11:59] <popey> which is what I was getting to
[11:59] <popey> hey ho
[11:59] <andyloughran> I like it
[11:59] <ali1234> andyloughran: why didn't you buy it a year ago when it was released then?
[11:59] <awilkins> I like it. I like that I've not seen them trying the same thing with Windows
[11:59] <andyloughran> I like the android app for turning my S2 into a remote control for my Samsung TV
[11:59] <andyloughran> ali1234: why didn't i buy what?
[11:59] <AlanBell> ali1234: because nobody marketed it at me a year ago when I was buying phones
[12:00] <ali1234> you can't tell me you never heard about it
[12:00] <AlanBell> I never heard about it
[12:00] <AlanBell> until yesterday
[12:00]  * bigcalm hugs popey
[12:00] <ali1234> it won the "best most amazing phone ever" award at MWC
[12:00] <ali1234> and it was all over engadget and etc
[12:01] <andyloughran> I don't have such a sophisticated setup - I once setup my phone (sony ericsson w100 I think) to have ubuntu run in live mode on it's SD card, so when I plugged the phone in via usb it booted up into ubuntu
[12:01] <andyloughran> ali1234: I've not heard of it
[12:02] <andyloughran> and lack of funds :p
[12:02] <awilkins> I reckon this sort of thing is probably good for management types
[12:02] <ali1234> yeah
[12:03] <awilkins> Esp. the ones who travel a lot
[12:03] <popey> corporates is exactly who its good for
[12:03] <ali1234> i know a few people this would be perfect for
[12:03] <bigcalm> Early lunch \o/
[12:03] <ali1234> except for the fact they need to run windows
[12:03] <awilkins> Depends how deep the need to run Windows is
[12:04] <awilkins> I do agree that some people have that need
[12:04] <ali1234> they need to run office and have it actually work properly
[12:05] <ali1234> and you can try to claim it runs in wine but that a) won't work on arm and b) is incredibly buggy
[12:05] <awilkins> I'm willing to bet that LibreOffice probably isn't up to it yet either
[12:05] <ali1234> lol
[12:05] <ali1234> ok so they work on charts and reports a lot
[12:06] <ali1234> these are reports for clients
[12:06] <ali1234> so they need to know that the client can open it and what it will look like when they do open it
[12:07] <ali1234> also they heavily use outlook as their "cloud"
[12:08] <ali1234> rather than a dropbox or something, everything goes on the outlook folders
[12:09] <ali1234> how is ubuntu one for corporate use btw?
[12:10] <awilkins> My assessment would be "poor"
[12:10] <ali1234> is there anything like the google thing for corps?
[12:10] <ali1234> can't remember if it's apps or domains or apps for domains
[12:10] <awilkins> The last I look it still had bad proxy support
[12:10] <ali1234> what i mean is, is there a way you can set up some kind of "group" on it?
[12:11] <ali1234> and have a folder shared by default company wide
[12:11] <ali1234> and automatically have your contacts sync company wide
[12:12] <ali1234> so when you hire a new guy and add them to the group, they appear on everyone's contacts
[12:12] <awilkins> ali1234, I'm not sure it supports that at all ...   If I were the admin at DirectGov I would take a VERY dim view of that
[12:33]  * bigcalm heads off to shop
[12:34] <awilkins> Unless it's a shameless attempt to knock "Drop the NHS Bill" off the top spot on the ePetitions list
[12:34] <gord> i don't really see anything wrong with it
[12:35] <hoover> hi folks
[12:35] <hoover> I've just switched to KDE 4.8... after a short stint with WindowMaker ;-)
[12:35] <hoover> on Lucid, that is (10.4)
[12:54] <diplo> Anyone use Xchat here ?
[12:55] <davmor2> diplo: yes
[12:55] <diplo> So have lot's of favourites
[12:55] <diplo> Auth with nickserv
[12:56] <diplo> One channel always chucks me to unregistered because i join quicker than it auths
[12:56] <diplo> Know of a way round it, had a quick googly, but nothing straight away
[12:56] <Azelphur> are you using xchat or xchat-gnome?
[12:56] <diplo> Vanilla Xchat
[12:56] <diplo> Don't like the Gnome version
[12:57] <Azelphur> nobody does :P
[12:57] <diplo> heh
[12:57] <Azelphur> it should do auth before joining channels, that's highly likely to be a bug or something weird going on
[12:57] <diplo> Will go back to irssi at some point but not there yet
[12:57] <diplo> It's not the be all for me, it's only CentOS channel
[12:57] <diplo> :)
[12:58] <Azelphur> workaround you could use a bouncer, then the bouncer does it properly for you :P
[12:58] <diplo> Think I'll probably go back to Irssi, only had one issue with it
[12:58] <diplo> And that was if I was downloading something on my connection at home it lagged to much
[12:58] <diplo> :P
[12:58] <diplo> So going to stick on vps when i get it
[12:59] <Azelphur> hehe
[12:59] <Azelphur> yea depends what you like really, some people prefer irssi on a VPS
[12:59] <Azelphur> other people prefer native clients for whatever platform they are using, and a bouncer
[12:59] <davmor2> diplo: have a look on their site they have a load of plugins and scripts for doing pretty much everything
[13:00] <diplo> Cheers will take a look
[13:01] <diplo> In my gaming days I used to run a bouncer for everyone on my game server
[13:01] <diplo> pysbnc or something from memory
[13:01] <diplo> loooooonnnnnnggggggg time ago
[13:01] <diplo> :)
[13:04] <davmor2> diplo: there are a few answers here http://askubuntu.com/questions/6332/prevent-xchat-from-trying-to-join-channels-until-i-have-been-authenticated
[13:05] <diplo> I forgot askubuntu last night!
[13:05]  * diplo looks
[13:05] <diplo> cheers
[13:10] <diplo> Set a delay, see if that works
[13:11] <diplo> That'll do it \o/
[13:11] <diplo> Cheers davmor2
[13:51] <bigcalm> I have returned!
[13:52] <davmor2> bigcalm: No you haven't
[13:52] <bigcalm> ;
[13:52] <bigcalm> return true;
[13:52] <bigcalm> I have returned
[13:53] <davmor2> ;
[13:53] <davmor2> return true == false;
[13:54] <bigcalm> Bah
[13:55] <bigcalm> That's still returning a value
[14:00] <czajkowski> ubuntu UK ml where on top replies or snips away the entire thread so you don't know what the person is replying back to exactly
[14:00] <czajkowski> :/
[14:00]  * BigRedS tries to decipher that
[14:01] <AlanBell> sandwich posting \o/
[14:01] <bigcalm> bigcalm: ubuntu-uk mailing list people are replying to emails incorrectly
[14:01] <gord> i think i am going to have to make a new home partition that uses a HDD, then symlink in the SSD for certain folders... all because ubuntu one won't let me sync things that are outside my home directory and i'm running out of space :(
[14:01] <popey> wow, big wall of text from kris there
[14:01] <popey> did he establish what version they had before asking them to use the applicayion menu?
[14:01] <popey> i was going to reply but the references to mint make me not want to
[14:01] <bigcalm> Mmmm, minty
[14:02] <gord> i pretty much don't read mailing lists anymore, its just a place for people to rant on mostly
[14:03] <TheOpenSourcerer> There's a lot of ranting going - that's for sure.
[14:04] <TheOpenSourcerer> Although I'm very happy with Ubuntu 10.10 ;-)
[14:04] <czajkowski> all the ohh Mint is more popular, dear gods how many times do folks have to be told what downloads mean
[14:14] <penguin42> The mint guys do seem to have done a nice job
[14:15] <bigcalm> popey: short on patients today I see :)
[14:17] <bigcalm> I do believe that it is time for a cuppa tea
[14:18] <BigRedS> Is that cinnamon?
[14:18] <BigRedS> I had a go on that at fosdem. It was like 2003 but with rounded corners.
[14:18] <BigRedS> I'm sure people like it and all, but it feels very old-for-the-sake-of-it
[14:24] <penguin42> BigRedS: I like it, didn't feel old to me
[14:25] <BigRedS> I've been using Gnome3 for a year or so now, menus feel *so* clunky and convoluted now
[14:25] <penguin42> http://tech.slashdot.org/story/12/02/22/1323204/adobe-makes-flash-on-gnulinux-chrome-only     ouch
[14:27] <bigcalm> Another reason not to use it?
[14:27] <penguin42> like we have a choice
[14:27] <bigcalm> Yes, I choose not to use it
[14:32] <gord> i'll just keep using the current flash version
[14:33] <penguin42> gord: Which will just gain more and more known vulnerabilities
[14:34] <gord> if you actually read the article and not slashdot because slashdot is terrible "Adobe will continue to provide security updates to non-Pepper distributions of Flash Player 11.2 on Linux for five years from its release."
[14:35] <penguin42> hmm ok, thanks - I guess that's not too bad - with any luck 5 years might let us finally bury most of Flash
[14:35] <gord> or mozilla will support that other api
[14:36] <gord> its not like i'm aching for new features in flash 12 or whatever
[14:36] <penguin42> gord: Oh agreed, it's just pages that already exist - there are a couple I use I know don't work in Chrome for example
[14:44]  * penguin42 moves this <--- machine to sid
[14:49] <aquarius> gord, you could bind-mount external folders into your home folder and sync them with U1 that way... but... there be dragons, so you need to be careful.
[14:50] <gord> aquarius, yeah tried things like that before, didn't really end well. so i figure going the other way and having a large hard drive and symlinking files/directories in from the fast ssd when i need to makes more sense in the long run
[14:57] <DJones> popey: What app are/where you using for your webcam, I was looking at webcam-server but sounds like thats no longer available, is your blog at http://popey.com/blog/2010/12/20/my-ubuntu-webcam-setup/ still the same as the current setup
[14:58] <popey> yup
[14:58] <popey> http://popey.com/~alan/webcamrc.txt
[14:58] <popey> sommat like that
[14:58] <DJones> Thanks, I'll have a look at that
[14:59] <DJones> Last time I had it running, I was using "Motion" as the webcam app
[15:07] <daubers> Afternoon
[15:07] <daubers> Has anyone got an audio captcha plugin for asterisk yet?
[15:09] <popey> "Say BANANA"
[15:09] <gord> BANANA
[15:10] <gord> why?
[15:10] <gord> oooh
[15:11] <MooDoo> hello all
[15:17] <davmor2> gord: "say BANANA PHONE"
[15:31] <penguin42> hmm they've street view'd moscow - nice to look around
[15:33] <awilkins> In Soviet Russia, street views you
[15:35] <jpds> penguin42: Saint Petersburg's fair nicer.
[15:35] <jpds> far*
[15:36] <penguin42> thanks - I'll have a look
[15:46] <AlanBell> Bug #938764
[15:46] <AlanBell> naught HUD, don't do that.
[15:51] <ahayzen> AlanBell: which mode is VBox in when this is happening?... I usually use 'seamless mode'...and am just curious ;)
[15:52] <AlanBell> full screen
[15:52] <ahayzen> AlanBell: does it happen in the other modes?
[15:53] <AlanBell> yes, but that is probably a good thing in seamless mode
[15:54] <ahayzen> yeah probably
[15:54] <AlanBell> of course it *should* do magic to pick up the menu content of the guest windows and reparent them into the global menu and hud
[15:55] <AlanBell> cross operating systems
[15:55] <ahayzen> that would be cool
[15:56] <ahayzen> Wish i didn't have coursework so I could help with the unity bugs :(
[16:03] <gord> smarter peoples than me: if i cp my home directory to another partition, keeping permissions/timestamps intact, then mount that partition in /home, will everything work as normal?
[16:05] <BigRedS> yes
[16:05] <BigRedS> as long as you do everything
[16:06] <BigRedS> do cp -a /home/gord /new/home/partition   or otherwise make sure all the dotfiles come with
[16:06] <gord> BigRedS, does that handle symlinks gracefully?
[16:07] <AlanBell> when you are not logged in and lightdm changes your wallpaper, where does it store the wallpapers it changes to? does it cache them somewhere or really pull them out of your home directory (and how does it do that with encrypted home?)
[16:07] <BigRedS> gord: yeah. -a does --preserve=all
[16:07] <BigRedS> so you'll have a new link with the same destination
[16:08] <gord> neat
[16:08] <gord> if everything breaks i'll come back and blame you
[16:08] <AlanBell> consider rsync if /home/gord is more than a few 10s of GB
[16:08] <gord> i mean. uh, thanks :)
[16:08] <BigRedS> haha
[16:09] <gord> AlanBell, whys that?
[16:09] <BigRedS> I've not noticed much difference in speed
[16:09] <BigRedS> well, I've not noticed any
[16:09] <BigRedS> but I've not been very scientific
[16:09] <AlanBell> it does checksums and is restartable
[16:09] <gord> speed i could care less about, but i think rsync does progress in certain configurations which would be handy
[16:09] <BigRedS> yeah
[16:10] <BigRedS> I do cp -a and if that fails I resume it with an rsync
[16:10] <AlanBell> interesting
[16:10] <BigRedS> I think it's force of habit. Always rsync for remote, cp for local
[16:10] <BigRedS> fewer characters, probably
[16:10] <gord> AlanBell, anything special i need to do with rsync to get the same deal as cp -a?
[16:11] <AlanBell> -avz I think, something like that
[16:11] <BigRedS> yeah
[16:11] <BigRedS> -a is the same as -a on cp, -v is verbose so you get a list of files and -z zips them which it doesn't do local-to-local anyway
[16:11] <gord> -r for recursion too?
[16:12] <BigRedS> -a includes a -r
[16:12] <gord> neat
[16:12] <BigRedS> -a is recursive preserving permissions, links, ownership, timestamps etc
[16:13] <TheOpenSourcerer> man cp
[16:13] <TheOpenSourcerer> :-)
[16:13] <gord> it is rather more easier and less error prone to ask #u-uk than it is to rtfm ;)
[16:14] <BigRedS> yeah, and I feel like I've just justified all the questions I've asked now :)
[16:19] <gord> this is going much faster than my remote rsyncs, obviously the high speeds are faster, but the lots of small files case seems to be faster too
[16:21] <BigRedS> that's one thing rsync's less good at - it spends a while stating files at the beginning
[16:21] <BigRedS> if there's billions of tiny ones it's definitely not-ideal but I don't know if anything's better
[16:22] <penguin42> and tends to eat about 100bytes/file - can get a problem if you have a HUGE directory
[16:24] <gord> rsync error: some files/attrs were not transferred (see previous errors) (code 23) at main.c(1070) [sender=3.0.9]
[16:24] <gord> i blame AlanBell!
[16:24]  * AlanBell hides
[16:25] <gord> sure would be nice if you could grep the previous commands output
[16:26] <kaushal> Hi
[16:27] <kaushal> is there a way to know the type of hard disk and rpm speed on ubuntu 11.10 ?
[16:27] <BigRedS> smartctl -a /dev/sda   will give you a bunch of data
[16:27] <BigRedS> not sure on rpm
[16:27] <kaushal> i mean is it scsi or sata or ssd ?
[16:30] <diplo> hdparm -i /dev/sda etc ?
[16:31] <diplo> Or capitol I
[16:32] <ahayzen> kaushal: You can get alot of info from the 'Disk Utility'
[16:32] <gord> huh, it actually seems to have worked
[16:34] <BigRedS> haha
[16:37] <buzz> one annoying thing with rsyn c(I have more than one actually), is that some stuff is not intuitive, like when restoring from a backup where xattrs were used to store ownership etc, you have to do something like "rsync -a --numeric-ids --rsync-path="rsync --fake-super" XX@localhost:/ dest"
[16:37] <buzz> also it never had fully implemented working rename detection, although there was a patch at some point that sometimes worked
[16:41] <dwatkins> I imagine it's difficult to implement without a stateful sync tool.
[18:17] <popey> http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2012/02/22/s05e00-season-5-is-coming/
[18:25] <AlanBell> topic needs updating
[18:48] <BigRedS> There really should be a diff printed out when the topic's changed
[18:48] <MartijnVdS> BigRedS: there's an irssi script/plugin
[18:49] <MartijnVdS> in the irssi-scripts package
[18:49] <BigRedS> ah yeah, there would be
[18:52]  * bigcalm sets off to find out how weird the folk are that attend Woves LUG
[18:52] <bigcalm> Wolves LUG even
[19:11] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Ubuntu UK Podcast] S05E00  Season 5 is coming! - http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2012/02/22/s05e00-season-5-is-coming/
[19:28] <jacobw> evening
[20:21] <djbenny> evening
[21:11] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Testing Ubuntu Accomplishments - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/02/22/testing-ubuntu-accomplishments/
[21:32] <AlanBell> how would you add an audio commentary to a screencast?
[21:33] <AlanBell> if for example you did a 5 minute screencast with the microphone muted for example
[21:33] <ali1234> i would use openshot
[21:34] <AlanBell> yeah, I like it for editing, but I don't see a "playback and record sound as a new track" option
[21:34] <ali1234> er
[21:34] <ali1234> play video in mplayer while recording audio
[21:34] <ali1234> drop audio file in openshot
[21:34] <ali1234> drag it to the timeline
[21:34] <ali1234> export
[21:35] <AlanBell> ok, that works :)
[21:36] <ali1234> if you are feeling really lazy and your computer is powerful enough, just record a new screencast of the video playing in mplayer while yu talk, this time remembering to enable the mic
[21:36] <popey> hello
[21:36] <popey> choo choo
[21:36]  * brobostigon joins in with making choochoo sounds.
[21:37]  * popey is at Waterloo
[21:37] <ali1234> you can also "audioswap" with ffmpeg if you don't want to reencode the video
[21:37] <ali1234> but that's a command line hassle
[21:37] <popey> AlanBell: see lp:ffscreencast for how you can extract audio and add different audio
[21:37] <popey> at the end of the script
[21:37] <popey> but yeah, a gui is "better"
[21:38]  * czajkowski waves at popey
[21:38] <popey> hullo
[21:39] <popey> eek, moving
[21:39] <ali1234> i found the compiz plugin for drawing on the screen
[21:39] <ali1234> usefu for screencasting
[21:39] <ali1234> can you guess what the default shortcut is for it?
[21:39] <popey> does it need 8 fingers?
[21:39] <ali1234> no
[21:39] <AlanBell> does it bring up the HUD?
[21:39] <ali1234> only 2
[21:39] <popey> alt+super?
[21:39] <ali1234> right
[21:40] <popey> haha
[21:40] <popey> brilliant
[21:40] <AlanBell> fail
[21:40] <ali1234> i unbound those two keys from unity
[21:40] <popey> i had some very interesting discussions with the designers today
[21:40] <SuperEngineer> alt-super... did somebody call ? .... ;)
[21:40] <popey> about unity, window management
[21:40] <popey> 14.04 is going to be a great release :D
[21:40] <ali1234> lolz
[21:41] <popey> had fun with the numbers on the launcher 'stick' on
[21:41] <popey> which was useful for determining at any time how many icons i had in the launcher
[21:41] <popey> unless i had more than 10
[21:42] <ali1234> i've said all along that unity will be good when it stops being "experimental" and starting being sensible :)
[21:42] <ali1234> same goes for gnome-shell
[21:43] <ali1234> gnome has already been through that cycle once
[21:43] <popey> i cant help but smile that i am on a train using a brand new laptop and a leading mobile phone to talk on irc ☺
[21:43] <popey> thats a fair assesment
[21:43] <KrimZon> I think the main thing I want from unity right now before I use it lots is to only show icons for what's in the current workspace
[21:44] <ali1234> KrimZon: the new version half does that, actually
[21:44]  * AlanBell figures out you start recording audio first, then hit play in mplayer
[21:44] <ali1234> KrimZon: by default
[21:44] <ali1234> if there are windows of the app on the current workspace it will only show those windows if you click the launcher twice
[21:44] <ali1234> if there aren't, it takes you to another workspace still
[21:44] <ali1234> but you can tell by looking at the little arrow now, what will happen when you click it
[21:45] <ali1234> so all in all, an improvement
[21:45] <popey> time for some train based emulation fun
[21:45] <ali1234> this is actually a compiz setting btw, only the default was changed
[21:45] <popey> ttfn
[21:47] <KrimZon> it's just that in gnome2 i had everything organized based on whether it was dealing with already running programs or with starting new ones
[21:47] <KrimZon> have, rather, because I'm still on 10.04
[21:48] <ali1234> yeah i don't like docks much because of the way they blur that line
[21:48] <ali1234> but that's never going to change
[21:49] <ali1234> anyway the new setting is much better, try it
[21:49] <AlanBell> yeah, I took everything out of the launcher
[21:50] <AlanBell> I have pinned a few things again, but it really confused me to begin with having stuff that wasn't running in the launcher that I didn't know how to close
[21:50] <ali1234> seriously?
[21:50]  * directhex moos
[21:50] <ali1234> the launcher itself never confused me. annoyed me, yes....
[21:51] <AlanBell> ali1234: well not for very long, but I was a bit perplexed by it
[21:51] <ali1234> now, the old "all desktops" window switching thing... that really confused me
[21:51] <KrimZon> I'd call it confusion, albeit momentary, when I want to open a new window and end up with the existing one on another workspace
[21:51] <ali1234> i could never know which desktop i was on and which desktops my windows were on
[21:51] <ali1234> so i just used 1 desktop all the time
[21:52] <AlanBell> I have only used a mac a few times and I didn't get where applications came and went from in the dock, having used unity I now understand the mac dock I think
[21:52] <ali1234> KrimZon: yeah exactly. that can still happen, but it is now possible to tell from the graphical hints whether it is going to happen or not
[21:52] <ali1234> before it was impossible to tell
[21:53] <KrimZon> but the behaviour of the icon is still inconsistent
[21:53] <KrimZon> dependant upon whether there's already an instance running
[21:53] <ali1234> yes
[21:53] <KrimZon> I would've loved it if they just added dock-style launcher icons to gnome 2
[21:53] <ali1234> ugh
[21:53] <ali1234> i would not have loved that
[21:54] <KrimZon> as an extra feature, rather than replacement
[21:54] <ali1234> they would all move around every time i log in, no thanks
[21:54] <KrimZon> well, by that I mean they start the app if it's not open else they switch to it
[21:54] <KrimZon> for stuff like pidgin and x-chat
[21:55] <ali1234> if i'm gonna run gnome 2, i won't be having any dock functions
[21:55] <KrimZon> pidgin handles 2 instances by itself, but x-chat embarrasses me by logging in twice :p
[21:55] <ali1234> if you don't like inconsistent icons, why do you want to put that design into gnome 2?
[21:55] <ali1234> just so you'd be able to turn it off?
[21:56] <KrimZon> well... maybe turning it off was my first reaction when I heard the feature discussed
[21:56] <ali1234> anyway, point is, once you;ve got a terminal window open on all workspaces, unity will now never warp you to another workspace when clicking the launcher like it used to do
[21:56] <KrimZon> I still think there's some stuff it's just handy to have a button to launch that won't run it if it's already running
[21:56] <ali1234> which was my main problem with it really
[21:57] <KrimZon> yeah, terminal windows are the opposite end - if you press terminal you generally want a new one, not the one that's doing something else already
[21:57] <ali1234> not really
[21:57]  * AlanBell wonders what to do about window quicklists
[21:57] <ali1234> i normally want "the terminal on this workspace" - not the last one i touched on any workspace
[21:58] <ali1234> because i have about 5 terminals open on every workspace
[21:58] <ali1234> so i go to the workspace related to the task first, then i look for the temrinal i want
[21:58] <ali1234> same goes for firefox windows
[21:58] <KrimZon> hmm
[21:58] <AlanBell> indeed, and raising every single terminal is not helpful
[21:58] <ali1234> cos i need my API reference as well
[21:58] <ali1234> and text editor
[21:58] <ali1234> and i'm usually working on three things at once
[21:59] <ali1234> so each workspace has a gedit, a firefox, and a bunch of terminals
[21:59] <ali1234> then i'll also probably have minecraft or eve running on another workspace
[21:59] <AlanBell> yup
[21:59] <ali1234> and of course i need another firefox window for that open on monitor 2 for reference
[22:00] <ali1234> we finally got the ability to loaunch programs on monitor 2 while something is running fullscreen on monitor 1
[22:00] <ali1234> previously i had to move to aother workspace with keyboard shortcut, open firefox, drag it to second monitor, "send to workspace" then switch back to the game
[22:00] <ali1234> such a faff
[22:01] <sagaci> alt+`
[22:01] <KrimZon> I don't use multi-monitor configurations at home
[22:01] <ali1234> alt+`?
[22:01] <ali1234> ow does that help me?
[22:02] <ali1234> eve is a game that caters to the type of players that all other mmorpgs hate
[22:03] <ali1234> you are basically expected to play it with a guide open at all times, otherwise you will get utterly destroyed
[22:03] <ali1234> the in game browser sucks though
[22:03] <AlanBell> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=MoXhfnmODbk#! nice fix to a silly fail
[22:04] <ali1234> what how does that work?!
[22:05] <AlanBell> move to the side of the window, scroll thumb leaps to the mouse, click the thumb and drag sideways to resize the window, rather than trying to sneak up on it from the right and resize when it isn't looking
[22:05] <ali1234> nice
[22:20] <popey> \o/ home
[22:21] <KrimZon> I played eve for a while
[22:21] <KrimZon> some time ago, until it started feeling too much like work
[22:22] <ali1234> yeah the trick is to never join a corp :)
[22:22] <KrimZon> I didn't, I used to just try to find decent trade routes that would make some kind of profit
[22:23] <andylockran> howdy
[22:23] <andylockran> I left my charger for the lappy at work today - absolute bummmer.
[22:23] <ali1234> jita -> anywhere makes you a profit on any widely used t2 modules
[22:24] <ali1234> i log in once every two weeks and do an orca trip, that's enough to cover my plex
[22:26] <ali1234> also, the eve UI is now a blatant rip-off of unity
[22:26] <KrimZon> haha
[22:26] <ali1234> they even have progress bars on their launcher
[22:26] <ali1234> for skill training
[22:26] <ali1234> and you can move the icons around
[22:26] <ali1234> it was similar before but they've obviously taken a lot of inspiration :)
[22:27] <zleap> how do i search for a file in ubuntu 11.10
[22:28] <ali1234> through the dash
[22:28] <KrimZon> I must confess I quit searching for files when I switched to linux
[22:28] <zleap> it finds the files but how do i get it to tell me where the file is
[22:28] <ali1234> hahaha
[22:28] <zleap> as in path to file, so i can navigate to it
[22:28] <ali1234> you're not supposed to care where it is
[22:28] <zleap> grrr
[22:28] <ali1234> just always open it through the dash
[22:29] <ali1234> if you want to know where it is, open nautilus and hit ctrl-f
[22:29] <zleap> ok
[22:29] <ali1234> or just use find in a terminal
[22:30] <ali1234> zleap: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Guwvwp0uSU8
[22:31] <zleap> i got it
[22:31] <zleap> just that dash needs to display more info, perhaps hover over the file and it displays path,  creation date so you can manage multiple copies of the same document
[22:32] <ali1234> well the 12.04 has a filtering thing where you can sort by date etc
[22:32] <ali1234> you have to go to the file lens
[22:32] <ali1234> dunno how any of it works on older versions... can't remember
[22:33] <zleap> well that sounds better to me, at least then when it is searching across multiple file systems,  and say drop box folder users can find the oldest version and maybe delete
[22:36] <zleap> ali1234, thanks
[22:37] <zleap> in 11.10 it just displaysd icons for the files and filename
[22:39] <KrimZon> I'll have to install 12.04 in a vm for a while
[22:40] <zleap> k
[22:53] <Azelphur> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-kbMF1GF2A&hd=1 \o/
[23:11] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Alan Lord] How to install OpenERP 6.1 on Ubuntu 10.04 LTS - http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2012/02/22/how-to-install-openerp-6-1-on-ubuntu-10-04-lts/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=how-to-install-openerp-6-1-on-ubuntu-10-04-lts


[00:00] <poolie> Odd_Bloke: i'll look for your mail and reply then
[00:01] <Odd_Bloke> poolie: Sure, just grabbing your key to encrypt it now.
[00:01] <Odd_Bloke> GPG - fun for all the family.
[00:02] <GaryvdM> Hi - How can I revert changes made by a revision in my wt?
[00:02] <GaryvdM> Not revert to a revision
[00:02] <poolie> undo just some of the changes?
[00:03] <GaryvdM> Undo the changes by a revisions, but the the changes by subsequent revisions
[00:03] <GaryvdM> *Undo the changes by a revision
[00:03] <poolie> try something like 'bzr merge -r 10..9'
[00:03] <GaryvdM> ok
[00:05] <GaryvdM> Thanks poolie - That worked.
[00:05] <Odd_Bloke> poolie: Sent.
[00:09] <bpierre_> well, that little conversation about switch was a real eye opener, I can't beleive I skipped this section in the manual... thanks for your answers
[00:09] <bpierre_> bye
[00:25] <markh> jam: any hope still of getting the plugin localizations included with 1.7?
[00:30] <poolie> abentley, bb seems to be down...
[00:30] <abentley> poolie: restarted
[00:30] <poolie> thanks very much
[00:31] <GaryvdM> ping lifeless
[00:32] <jam> markh: I suppose I could force it. Though it would be nice if we could get poolie or spiv to review it and also approve.
[00:32] <jam> It is small enough that I would be okay with bringing it in post rc2
[00:35] <GaryvdM> jam: could you give me any pointers to try figure out why get_parent_map is slower when passing all revisions in one go?
[00:36] <lifeless> GaryvdM: hmm?
[00:36] <lifeless> call to all devs: please give my readdir branch a spin
[00:37] <GaryvdM> lifeless: same question as jam :-)
[00:37] <lifeless> GaryvdM: lsprof
[00:37] <GaryvdM> ok
[00:38] <lifeless> also try a btree based repo and see if that handles it more gracefully
[00:38] <poolie> jam, i'll try to look
[00:39] <GaryvdM> ok
[00:51] <GaryvdM> lifeless: Sorry - how do I create a btree based repo?  None of the formats in "bzr help init" mention btree?
[00:59] <markh> lifeless: recall how you suggested I set sys.platform to "win32" so linux can run the same tests?  The problem is that osutils, and probably others, do win32 specific things at *import* time - eg, osutils.abspath is set to a linux or windows specific version as osutils is imported.  Thus, as Ian noticed, the tests fail on Linux.  What do you suggest?
[01:07] <lifeless> markh: oh
[01:07] <lifeless> markh: bummer :P, I guess, disable it then
[01:08] <markh> ok cool
[01:08] <lifeless> GaryvdM: the index2 plugin has the code, though its a little bitrotted;
[01:08] <jelmer> markh: hi!
[01:08] <markh> jelmer: hi!
[01:08] <markh> jelmer: you get a build related patch from me?  I *think* I remembered to send one...
[01:09] <jelmer> markh: No, what was it about?
[01:09] <jelmer> markh: bzr-svn on Windows? (-:
[01:09] <markh> bummer.  libsasl.dll needs to be included for 1.5
[01:09] <markh> svn 1.5
[01:09]  * markh looks
[01:09] <jelmer> markh: what address did you send it to?
[01:10] <markh> jelmer at samba.org, sent tuesday
[01:10] <markh> try again to that addy?
[01:11] <igc> hi all
[01:11] <markh> g'day ian!
[01:11] <igc> markh: hi
[01:11] <igc> markh: re your win32utils patch, it needs a tweak too
[01:11] <markh> igc: thanks for the review of that patch - but that lifeless character led me astray ;)
[01:11] <beuno> hi igc!
[01:11] <igc> hi beuno
[01:12] <markh> igc: you referring to the transport abspath patch?
[01:12] <lifeless> markh: well the altered code path should be testable; its a nuisance that its not
[01:12] <markh> lifeless: yeah, I understand and agree with your motivations
[01:12] <igc> so markh, TestlocationCtypes needs some more protection as it runs (and fails) on Linux
[01:12] <igc> the os.environ["APPDATA"] bit causes a KeyError
[01:13] <jelmer> markh: let me just check whether I didn't accidently skip over it
[01:13] <jelmer> markh: nope - please resend
[01:13] <igc> markh: get_local_appdata_location() patch
[01:14] <jelmer> 'morning Ian!
[01:14] <igc> hi jelmer. How are you?
[01:14] <markh> igc: right, bummer.  I must remember that my test ubuntu installation is only a couple of clicks away...
[01:14] <igc> :-)
[01:14] <markh> I'll quickly fix the transport abspath to simply disable the tests on windows first
[01:15] <markh> jelmer: sent
[01:16] <jelmer> markh: also, I was wondering if you could run the testsuite against my IPv6 patch on windows.
[01:16] <markh> jelmer: why not :)  where is it?
[01:16] <jelmer> http://bundlebuggy.aaronbentley.com/project/bzr/request/%3C20080830185330.GA22976%40vernstok.nl%3E
[01:17] <jelmer> igc: Good, thanks!
[01:17] <jelmer> igc: How are you? It's good to see you around here again.
[01:17] <markh> jelmer: is there a nice subset of tests I can run to reduce the noise caused by the full suite?
[01:18] <jelmer> markh: Just the smart server tests should be sufficient
[01:19] <igc> jelmer: I'm better thanks.
[01:21] <markh> jelmer: socket module has no attribute AI_ADDRCONFIG on windows :(
[01:22] <jelmer> markh: does it work ok if you exclude AI_ADDRCONFIG?
[01:24] <markh> jelmer: "smart.*server" runs 27 tests and they all pass now.  How to remove that flag from server.py and medium.py
[01:24] <markh> s/How/Had/
[01:25] <jelmer> markh: Cool, thanks.
[01:26] <markh> just "selftest server" runs 42 and they all pass too :)
[01:37] <markh> igc: I resubmitted the transport_abspath patch which skips the test on non-windows.
[01:38] <igc> markh: thanks
[01:42] <GaryvdM> Hi lifeless. I unfortunately get the following error: http://pastebin.com/d78fe14ad
[01:42] <GaryvdM> I attached a debugger, and format_registry.register_metadir is being called twice
[01:43] <lifeless> interesting
[01:43] <lifeless> is the plugin loading correctly?
[01:43] <GaryvdM> no
[01:44] <lifeless> well, thats probably the cause of the double-registration
[01:44] <GaryvdM> It seems that that error is being thrown when the plugin is loading
[01:44] <lifeless> I'll see if I can peek later today, but trying with bzr 1.6 might let it load properly
[01:44] <GaryvdM> ok
[01:45] <lifeless> no, that error is during arg processing
[01:47] <lifeless> oh cool - http://www.datadictionary.nhs.uk/  uses bzr
[01:47] <lifeless> awilkins: do you know more about them ?
[01:48] <mwhudson> blink
[01:48] <GaryvdM> lifeless: It's because I don't have pybloom installed :-)
[01:49] <lifeless> if you hack the plugin up a bit
[01:49] <lifeless> you can use the btree implementation in bzr.dev
[01:50] <lifeless> (rather than the one in the plugins btree_index module
[01:52] <jelmer> lifeless: from what I understand, awilkins works for NHS :-)
[01:52] <lifeless> jelmer: ah
[01:54] <markh> igc: thanks for the review, and I should try to proof-read better :(  I'm still confused by the 'tweak' thing though - who will/should fix that typo in the comments?
[01:55] <igc> markh: I will when I merge it to pqm
[01:55] <lifeless> markh: tweak technically means 'ok to merge with no more review but the changes done'
[01:56] <markh> lifeless: yeah - but sometimes I'm not sure if I'm being asked to make the tweak and resubmit, or someone else will...
[01:56] <lifeless> markh: if you don't have merge access, then I'd say you still should make the changes yourself, but you could just ping someone on IRC to land it (or send it in again with a note saying 'all reviewed this is the tweaks')
[01:56] <markh> especially as the person saying 'tweak' might not be the person submitting it to PQM IIUC
[01:56] <lifeless> right
[01:57] <igc> markh: we do overload tweak to mean two things ...
[01:57] <markh> lifeless: yeah, I don't have merge access, so I think I'll assume I should resubmit with the tweaks unless I can convince a sucker to tweak and land for me :)
[01:57] <igc> 1) another review not required
[01:57] <igc> 2) small changes needed before merging
[01:58] <lifeless> igc: I don't see that as overloading :). We have could represent it as multiple bits in a bitfield, but symbolic names are easier :P
[01:59] <igc> markh: if I ever vote tweak but ask you to do the tweaks, it's my polite way of saying you can probably tweak it better than I can
[02:00] <igc> markh: in the case of fixing a comment, I'm sure I have the intellect to manage that myself :-)
[02:01] <igc> lifeless: if you're ok with markh's resubmitted patch, I'll tweak and land it
[02:02] <mwhudson> jam: yay for figuring out https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/242510
[02:03] <markh> so now all we need is a story for the LockContention failure noise on Windows and the test suite there will be looking good!
[02:03] <lifeless> igc: poolie has acked I think
[02:03] <lifeless> markh: if I vote tweak, I expect the author to tweak
[02:03] <markh> igc: good to see you back again :)  How are things?
[02:04] <lifeless> markh: which FWIW is the safe default for you to assume :P
[02:04] <markh> lifeless: so I hope you understand my slight confusion ;)
[02:04] <lifeless> markh: I think its due to igc being helpful
[02:04] <igc> markh: I'm better today. Still some pain but nothing like before
[02:04] <markh> damn helpful people!
[02:05] <markh> igc: good.  the treatment getting easier?
[02:05] <igc> markh: treatment stopped for now; surgery in early Oct is next; recovery before then
[02:07] <poolie> hello igc
[02:07] <igc> hi poolie!
[02:09] <markh> jelmer: that mail arrive?
[02:17] <jelmer> yep, thanks
[02:17] <jelmer> markh: I've merged it
[02:28] <markh> jam: that patch for the plugin l10n files has actually got 2 approve votes already.
[03:15] <markh> 1.7rc2 binaries for windows are now up on launchpad
[03:18] <markh> Also FYI, http://bazaar-vcs.org/TortoiseBzr has some recent Tortoise screen-shots from Vista and is looking quite pretty :)
[03:26] <thumper> markh: OMG, the UI refers to creating a stacked branch
[03:27] <thumper> markh: I do question the (possible) default of making a checkout
[03:27] <markh> thumper: is the stacked branch thing good or bad? :)
[03:27] <thumper> markh: is the revno really 0.0.1dev?
[03:27] <thumper> markh: surely we could have a bigger number :)
[03:27] <markh> yep :)  Probably should be 0.0.2.dev now ;)
[03:27] <thumper> markh: kinda good
[03:28] <thumper> markh: but more to explain to the users :)
[03:28] <thumper> markh: looks very pretty though
[03:28] <thumper> markh: good work
[03:28] <markh> thanks!
[03:28] <thumper> blog now please :)
[03:28] <markh> lots of the prettiness is qbzr
[03:29]  * markh needs to get one of those new-fangled blog thingies...
[03:29] <GaryvdM> Nice markh!
[03:31] <markh> I just recently landed a nice change so we can easily have those 'links' on the form display a popup help window with any bzr topic formatted as reasonable html, which is nice.  All 'revision number' boxes can have a link that explain the revision number formats, for example.
[03:33] <markh> ack - but I just noticed the binaries don't have docutils so things aren't as pretty as they could be :(
[03:34] <GaryvdM> markh - just want to nudge you to Bug #271983
[03:36] <markh> GaryvdM: ack - I must have missed that.  Do you have any idea what it does mean?  I'm guessing localizations?
[03:36] <markh> WFM obviously
[03:37] <GaryvdM> I was hoping it was something you missed. I'll debug.
[03:37]  * markh just twigges GaryvdM is qbzr's Gary - hi!
[03:37] <markh> twigged
[03:37] <GaryvdM> Hi!
[03:38] <markh> GaryvdM: what do you think in principle of those large changed I recently mailed about?
[03:39] <GaryvdM> I haven't got my head around them yet :-(
[03:40] <GaryvdM> I did pull the branch and gave it a test run - And I could not see any problems :-)
[03:40] <markh> fair enough :)  I think being able to use the signal/slot editor is a nice feature, as is the abaility to have the form at runtime look much more likje it does in qtdesigner.  I'm happy to negotiate the actual impl obviously though :)
[03:41] <markh> its very nice to have a checkbox connected to a radio button, so magically the checkbox is only enabled when the radio is - all with zero code :)
[03:41] <GaryvdM> Oh - Thats cool
[03:42] <markh> similarly with links - you could add a new help link to any of our forms with zero code.
[03:42] <markh> just connect the signal with the slot in the editor
[03:42] <markh> I'm quite impressed with qt
[03:43] <GaryvdM> That bug is weird. I get it when I run from the command line, but not when I run from Komodo
[03:45] <markh> the code I copied from blindly indexed via 'foo[0][1]' - ie, had no regard for the fact there might be more than 1.  So that's probably a good option :)  I'll have a look after I eat...
[03:52] <GaryvdM> It's get 2 help topics because I have the bzrtools plugin installed, which has a command called branches.
[04:06] <markh> hrm - I have bzrtools 1.7.0 installed too
[04:07] <GaryvdM> I think we can safely just display the first topic.
[04:07] <markh> sounds fine to me
[04:07] <GaryvdM> Ok I'm pushing a fix now.
[04:08] <markh> thanks
[04:20]  * igc unch
[05:52] <stefanlsd> I am playing around with bzr and the merging, and when i merge it gives me a file.moved. How do i get the launchpad / ubuntu functionality where it generated the conflict markers in the same file?
[05:53] <RAOF> stefanlsd: It's my understanding that what you're seeing happens when you've independently added the same file in different branches, and so bzr doesn't know that they're the same file.
[05:56] <stefanlsd> RAOF: yeah, i did that.  let me try and modify the contents of the same file after i've merged then...
[05:56] <spiv> stefanlsd: RAOF is right.  You get foo.moved files when it's a conflict of two different files at the same path.  You get conflict markers within a file when there's a conflict of the contents of one file.
[05:58] <stefanlsd> RAOF, spiv:  thanks, yeah. i see that now.
[07:02] <vila> hi all
[08:24]  * vila off to renew passport
[08:46] <ngnp> hi ... is there document about combining cvs and bazaar ... my project is in cvs ... doing a cvs 'switch-branch' my .bzr was deleted
[08:46] <ngnp> do I need a shared repo to prevent this or are there other ways.
[08:53]  * vila 's back
[09:04] <matkor> Hi ! I upgraded bzr 1.5 -> 1.6.1, during bzr update bzr suggested doing upgrade I did , now I during bzr update I get: bzr: ERROR: The branch format Bazaar-NG meta directory, format 1 is already at the most recent format. ?
[09:06] <matkor> ah
[09:06] <matkor> sorry
[09:06] <matkor> upgrade vs update confusion :)
[09:20] <bignose> if I don't see a command in the 'bzrlib' package, but I know it's provided by core Bazaar (not a plug-in), how do I find out how to run it programmatically?
[09:20] <bignose> e.g. 'version-info'
[09:21] <LarstiQ> bignose: I always start by `vim bzrlib/builtins.py`
[09:22] <LarstiQ> bignose: version-info specifically is in bzrlib/cmd_version_info.py
[09:23] <bignose> hmm. so I should 'import bzrlib.cmd_version_info' to get it?
[09:24] <LarstiQ> bignose: well, it is possible to rund the cmd objects, but often that is not exactly what you want
[09:24] <bignose> indeed.
[09:25] <LarstiQ> bignose: depends on what you're doing ofcourse
[09:25] <bignose> I'm hoping there's a better API to get the output of the command, and specify its inputs
[09:25] <bignose> (so now I guess my question is specifically about the 'version-info' command)
[09:25] <bignose> that module exports only the Command class
[09:26] <bignose> s/class/subclass/
[09:26] <LarstiQ> bignose: I'd forego the cmd object and directly do builder=format...
[09:27] <LarstiQ> bignose: are you thinking of specifying a tempate in a file instead of as an argument?
[09:27] <LarstiQ> template, even
[09:28] <bignose> yes, potentially
[09:29] <LarstiQ> bignose: then I request you submit a patch, because I want that too ;)
[09:30] <LarstiQ> bignose: are these enough pointers for now? If so, I'm going afk for the day
[09:30] <bignose> LarstiQ: thanks very much, yes
[09:34] <LarstiQ> cool
[09:34] <LarstiQ> *runs*
[09:46] <lifeless> bignose: you _can_ do cmd_class().run_argv(argv), but thats a pretty crude way to reuse code
[10:28] <bignose> bzrlib.export.export(workingtree.branch, export_dir_path, format="dir")
[10:29] <bignose> File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/bzrlib/export/dir_exporter.py", line 38, in dir_exporter inv = tree.inventory
[10:29] <bignose> AttributeError: 'BzrBranch6' object has no attribute 'inventory'
[10:30] <bignose> what API should I be using for export? the above doesn't seem to work on a branch as referenced by 'bzrlib.workingtree.WorkingTree.branch'
[10:31] <james_w> branch.repository.revision_tree(branch.last_revision())
[10:31] <james_w> that will get you the last committed revision on the branch as a revision tree, and export works on trees
[10:32] <bignose> hmm. so I know how to get from "arbitrary path somewhere in the working tree" to a WorkingTree instance
[10:32] <bignose> how do I get a repository?
[10:32] <jelmer> bignose: WorkingTree.open_containing(path)
[10:32] <bignose> jelmer: yes, that's the part I know.
[10:32] <jelmer> that'll return a workingtree instance and path relative to the path in the working tree
[10:33] <jelmer> bignose: workingtree.branch.repository
[10:34] <bignose> so I need to do 'branch = workingtree.branch', then 'tree = branch.repository.revision_tree(branch.last_revision())', then 'bzrlib.export.export(tree)'
[10:34] <bignose> yes?
[10:35] <jelmer> bignose: yep
[10:35] <jelmer> bignose: branch.basis_tree() is a shortcut for branch.repository.revision_tree(branch.last_revision()) btw
[10:36] <bignose> jelmer: excellent, thanks
[10:42] <bignose> from a branch instance, how can I get the branch root?
[10:43] <jelmer> bignose: the URL of the branch you mean? branch.base IIRC
[10:43] <bignose> no, the filesystem path as output by 'bzr root'
[10:44] <spiv> That's the .basedir of the workingtree.
[10:44] <bignose> spiv: thanks
[10:45] <spiv> (Which may be the same as the osutils.local_path_from_url(branch.base) a lot of the time)
[10:48] <lifeless> or
[10:48] <lifeless> tree.basis_tree()
[10:48] <lifeless> if you want the wt's parent rather than the branch tip, which could be different
[12:47] <awilkins> markh: Ping?
[12:49] <matkor> Hmmm I upgraded to bzr 1.6.1, done bzr upgrade now, when starting olive (bzr-gtk) bzrlib.errors.NoSuchRevision: KnitPackRepository('file:///home/users/matkor/.bzr/repository/') has no revision ('matkor@laptop-hp-20080918151249-q38r0dgg95jsnhqi',) .. any suggestions ?
[13:05] <matkor> Hm I had to get back to old (Knit) version of repo ... should I fill bug somehow ?
[13:06] <matkor> by repo has 119 MB and contains data I do not want make public ...
[13:10] <gnomefreak> ok something is really wrong with bzr bd :( on first build using -S -sa everything goes into build-area (that is good) now without doing anything to build-area i build without -S -sa and everything gets pulled from build-area and goes into work/ except for source.changes file
[13:12] <james_w> gnomefreak: -sa isn't a valid option to bd, could you be more specific in what you are doing please?
[13:16] <gnomefreak> james_w: first build (source or binaries) everything goes into build-area   2nd build (source or bins) everything gets removed from build-area except sources.changes and put into work
[13:16] <gnomefreak> dir
[13:16] <gnomefreak> james_w: that is what is causing the cheksum mismatch i showed you earlier
[13:17] <james_w> gnomefreak: yes, I understand
[13:17] <james_w> I'm trying to find out where the bug is, are you now saying that it doesn't matter whether the second is without "-S -sa", everything still gets moved?
[13:18] <gnomefreak> james_w: right that is why ~jjv worked and other one failed
[13:18] <gnomefreak> failed -- errored on lintian
[13:18] <james_w> can you give me the transcripts of this happening then please?
[13:21] <gnomefreak> james_w: i got rid of the build clutter http://pastebin.mozilla.org/539840
[13:22] <james_w> thanks
[13:22] <gnomefreak> james_w: np
[13:23] <james_w> ->mozillateam
[13:23] <gnomefreak> ok
[13:23] <gnomefreak> you mean try that command?
[16:09] <jelmer> join #samba-technical
[16:09] <jelmer> argh
[16:10] <beuno> tsk tsk, look at jelmer trying to get people to join his channel...
[16:11] <james_w> hey jelmer
[16:11] <james_w> hey beuno
[16:11] <jelmer> :-)
[16:11] <beuno> hey james_w!
[16:11] <james_w> how you guys doing?
[16:11] <jelmer> Hey beuno, james_w
[16:11] <beuno> howdy jelmer
[16:11]  * Jc2k resists jelmers demands
[16:11]  * beuno is getting ready to go to NZ for a week
[16:12] <jelmer> beuno, lucky bastard.
[16:12] <beuno> well, it's 24h flight plus 16h timezone shift
[16:13] <beuno> I'm not sure how that's going to pan out
[16:13] <jelmer> a week is not a very long time though  - where are you going there?
[16:13] <beuno> Dunedin, to visit thumper
[16:14] <jelmer> ah, Dunedin is nice
[16:14] <beuno> you've been there?
[16:14] <jelmer> yeah, a couple of years ago
[16:15] <jelmer> a friend of mine lives near Dunedin at the coast
[16:15]  * beuno is impressed
[16:17] <beuno> brb
[17:52] <Leonidas> is there a way to create ghost revisions on purpose via the command line?
[17:55] <jelmer> Leonidas, nope, API only afaik
[17:55] <Leonidas> jelmer: ok, thanks, so I'll write myself a small helper which does that.
[18:02] <bialix> jam: hi
[18:03] <jam> hi bialix
[18:38] <abentley> bialix: I'm closing down the server you have a unix account on.  If you need anything off it, it's at old.aaronbentley.com.
[18:39] <bialix> abentley: thank you, but I don;t have there anything. If there still my files, you can delete it
[18:39] <abentley> bialix: Cool.
[18:39] <bialix> thanks for the fish
[18:40] <abentley> bialix: I tried to let you know by email, but your server dropped the message: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/48368/
[18:41] <bialix> ukr.net is a free mail server
[18:44] <abentley> bialix: Okay.  Just letting you know.
[18:44] <bialix> thx
[19:53] <abeaumont> hi, i've a svn repo mirror as explained in user guide's 8.2.3 section, which are the commands to have the bazaar mirror synchronized with subversion repo?
[20:01] <tvainika> Do you know about gnome's bzr mirror (bzr-playground.gnome.org), does it sync changes bi directionally? Can I commit with bzr to bzr-playground, or should I commit my changes with bzr-svn to normal svn.gnome.org?
[20:02] <beuno> jelmer, do you know?  ^
[20:03] <jdobrien> i need some assistance resolving a simple conflict with bzr merge
[20:03] <jdobrien> it's a one line conflict and i know what i want in my new branch
[20:04] <beuno> jdobrien, so what's the problem?
[20:04] <jdobrien> the new branch as the proper line it it
[20:05] <jdobrien> but when ever i remove the <<< >>> and try to commit, it says Conflicts detected ...
[20:05] <beuno> jdobrien, so, you removed all the >>>, <<<<, and  [20:05] <beuno> run "bzr resolve"
[20:05] <jdobrien> ahh!
[20:06] <jdobrien> bueno: thanks
[20:06] <beuno> welcome'
[20:07] <beuno> my turn!
[20:07] <beuno> anyone know how I can push a branch to a remote server, and create the working tree automatically?
[20:14] <jdobrien> beuno: can't you just scp the whole folder?
[20:14] <LarstiQ> jdobrien: bad idea
[20:15] <jelmer> tvainika, afaik it's one way - pushing to svn.gnome.org should work
[20:15] <LarstiQ> beuno: push-and-update is not sufficient I presume?
[20:16] <beuno> LarstiQ, it would, but I'm not sure it creates the working tree the first time?
[20:18] <LarstiQ> beuno: good question
[20:19] <beuno> my feeling is no, since the plugin just does the push and updates
[20:19] <beuno> which will error
[20:27] <jdobrien> LarstiQ: thanks, i didn't realize all the capabilities of bzr push
[20:30] <beuno> ok, so next question
[20:31] <beuno> which I've seen answered a billion times, but can never remember
[20:31] <beuno> how do I create a working tree from the pushed branch?
[20:32] <Peng_> beuno: "bzr co"?
[20:33] <LarstiQ> beuno: what Peng_ said
[20:33] <beuno> marianom, what Peng_ and LarstiQ said  :)
[20:33] <beuno> thanks guys
[20:33] <beuno> that's why I never remember
[20:33] <beuno> it doesn't make sense to me
[20:35] <tvainika> beuno: co = checkout just like in svn, cvs or any other "old fashion" vcs, why it doesn't make sense?
[20:36] <beuno> because I'm within a branch, and I'm checking it out into itself
[20:36] <beuno> blows my mind for some reason
[20:37] <fullermd> Sure; you're making a working tree for a branch.  That's what checkout does   :)
[20:37] <LarstiQ> beuno: this is the other sense
[20:37] <Peng_> hg uses "hg update" both to change the working tree to an arbitrary revision and to delete the working tree ("hg up null", since it treats no tree and a tree set to the null revision identically). More intuitive, IMO.
[20:37] <Peng_> Also one command vs. three.
[20:37] <fullermd> Wow, that sounds utterly insanely bizarre.
[20:38] <Peng_> Haha.
[20:38] <Peng_> Both are slightly odd, with "hg up null" and "bzr co", so whatever.
[20:38]  * Peng_ shrugs.
[20:38] <LarstiQ> bzr co corresponds to .bzr/checkout/, which is the metadata for the working tree
[20:38] <fullermd> bzr co never seems odd in the slightest to me.  In CVS, you use 'cvs co' to create a working tree.  In SVN, you use 'svn co' to create a working tree.  In bzr, you use 'bzr co' to create a working tree.
[20:38] <fullermd> Heck, in RCS you use 'co' to create a working file...
[20:39] <fullermd> In SCCS, you just kill yourself.
[20:39] <LarstiQ> :)
[20:39] <beuno> ah, that makes more sense
[20:39] <jdobrien> In VSS you kill everyone else...and then yourself
[20:39] <beuno> "bzr co corresponds to .bzr/checkout/, which is the metadata for the working tree" is what I was looking for
[20:39] <beuno> thanks LarstiQ
[20:39] <fullermd> But you fail at killing yourself, because your weapon corrupted itself from being used too many times.
[20:40] <Peng_> That does make sense, but it still bothers me.
[20:40]  * fullermd still thinks it bothers you because you had the misfortune to hear the phrase 'bound branch'.
[20:40] <Peng_> fullermd: Right.
[20:40] <fullermd> Knowing too much about the underpinings of lightweight and heavyweight and whatnot muddles the issue severely.
[20:41]  * LarstiQ nods
[20:41] <fullermd> If you just stick with 'checkout creates a working tree for a branch', and ignore the lower level stuff as trivial implementation issues that don't affect anything else, it's much easier to work with.
[20:42] <fullermd> I'm a firm believer that overcommunication of that causes a LOT of unnecessary trouble in the user-base.
[20:42] <fullermd> Doubled and tripled the moment somebody mentions 'commit --local'.
[20:43] <jdobrien> fullermd: probably better than complete ignorance, such as mine
[20:44] <fullermd> I'm not sure of that, really.  You don't _need_ to know any of the difference, until you reach below the covers with something like ci --local and unmask it.
[20:44] <jdobrien> you must have missed my suggestion :-)
[20:47] <GaryvdM> Hi - We sometimes see a problem in qlog, where the following error is written to the console:
[20:47] <GaryvdM> UserWarning: LockableFiles(<bzrlib.transport.local.LocalTransport url=file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/Gary/My%20Documents/bzr/.bzr/repository/>) was gc'd while locked
[20:47] <GaryvdM>   warnings.warn("%r was gc'd while locked" % self)
[20:47] <GaryvdM> What can I do to debug this
[20:48] <GaryvdM> I've checked that all our lock_read()'s have try: finally: unlock()
[20:49] <LarstiQ> hmm, no bpierre
[20:50] <LarstiQ> GaryvdM: all I know is to direct you to spiv ;)
[20:50] <GaryvdM> Ok
[20:51] <beuno> and, it's saturday for spiv, so he probably won't be here for a couple of days  :)
[20:52] <LarstiQ> GaryvdM: only qlog has that?
[20:52] <GaryvdM> yes
[20:52] <LarstiQ> GaryvdM: it also happens in bzr selftest runs btw
[20:53] <LarstiQ> GaryvdM: based on that summier knowledge, I'd say it's either something tests and qlog do the same, or it is a bzrlib problem.
[20:53] <LarstiQ> GaryvdM: can you reproduce it reliably?
[20:53] <GaryvdM> Currently
[20:54] <GaryvdM> In fact I've just realised that it happens when you click Refresh\
[20:54] <GaryvdM> Which reopens the branch.
[20:55] <GaryvdM> Now that I realized that - it should be easy to fix :-)
[20:58] <LarstiQ> GaryvdM: aah :)
[21:02] <LarstiQ> does anyknow how I can reach bpierre_ other than waiting till he shows up here again?
[21:06] <jelmer> join #ctrlproxy
[21:06] <jelmer> argh
[21:06] <jelmer> not my best day
[21:08] <beuno> twice, you're borderline spamming!  :p
[21:09] <emmajane> beuno: You're around. :) I have a question for you...
[21:09] <emmajane> How did you tag your web site files in terms of release information.
[21:10] <emmajane> for example: I have just uploaded a series of files for a client to look at. I should probably take a snapshot now so that I can roll back to this point. I don't think I want a branch... but I'm not sure what I want.
[21:10] <Odd_Bloke> kick jelmer Spamming.
[21:11] <LarstiQ> Odd_Bloke: I haven't had time to look at testing bisect yet
[21:11] <jelmer> Odd_Bloke, :-)
[21:12]  * jelmer waves at beuno, emmajane, Odd_Bloke and LarstiQ
[21:12]  * emmajane waves
[21:12]  * LarstiQ waves at jelmer
[21:13] <emmajane> (and that was an open question if anyone else has suggestions :) )
[21:13]  * fullermd waggles.
[21:13] <beuno> emmajane, you want to tag the uploaded set of files?
[21:13] <beuno> the revid is uploaded to a hidden file
[21:13] <fullermd> I dunno.  Tags are easy and cheap.
[21:13] <beuno> if you add a tag to the branch
[21:13] <beuno> you can easily map those two later on if needed
[21:14] <LarstiQ> emmajane: a tag sounds reasonable
[21:14] <fullermd> And after all, you can always create a branch from that rev later if you turn out to need a branch.
[21:14] <beuno> and/or push that specific revision
[21:14] <emmajane> beuno: I'm just "manually" uploading files at this point because I'm lazy (at least I remembered to bzr init though *grin*). I think it makes sense to have some kind of history that I can roll back to. Normally I rely on my memory and my commit messages. But there must be something more efficient...
[21:14]  * emmajane nods.
[21:14] <emmajane> tags are like flags, right?
[21:14] <emmajane> just sort of a "hello!! over here!" note?
[21:14] <beuno> emmajane, you mean you didn't use bzr-upload?
[21:14] <LarstiQ> emmajane: "manual" sounds like more work than I'm willing to do ;)
[21:15] <emmajane> beuno: I know, I know. :/
[21:15] <beuno> heh
[21:15] <beuno> well
[21:15] <beuno> if you *do* use bzr-upload, the plugin uploads a file with the revid
[21:15] <emmajane> beuno: I'm already a day late on delivering the specs so I'm amazed I remembered to even think about revision control. It's a start. :)
[21:15] <beuno> so you know what revision was uploaded
[21:15] <Odd_Bloke> beuno: Presumably that's overwritten next time the upload happens?
[21:15]  * Odd_Bloke hasn't even looked at bzr-upload.
[21:15] <LarstiQ> GaryvdM: you're not going to be in .nl somewhere this year perchance?
[21:16] <beuno> Odd_Bloke, yeap
[21:16]  * fullermd has lost count of how many days late he'd be for things if he WEREN'T thinking about revision control   :p
[21:16] <beuno> there's no history of uploads
[21:16] <beuno> we'd need to develop a revision control system on top of a plugin for revision control
[21:16] <emmajane> fullermd: heh
[21:17] <beuno> (or, just keep on adding the uploaded revs to the current file, which is very cheap and easy, but no fun at all)
[21:17] <beuno> emmajane, anyway, if you've just uploaded manually
[21:17] <LarstiQ> beuno: ah, but think about the scalability!
[21:17] <emmajane> at this point I've uploaded it to /client_name/v1-layout/files.html so that they know they're looking only at the "general layout" .. once they've approved that I'll give them sub-nav.
[21:17] <beuno> just do:  bzr tag something_to_rmemeber_it_by
[21:17] <Odd_Bloke> We should write it in C, and really obfuscate the UI.
[21:17] <Odd_Bloke> Then it'll be _fast_.
[21:17]  * emmajane nods.
[21:17] <beuno> and you can come back to that later on
[21:17] <beuno> bzr tags
[21:17] <emmajane> Yeah. I think that's what I want.
[21:17] <beuno> will show you all the tags
[21:18] <emmajane> for example: bzr tag v1_upload
[21:18] <fullermd> Odd_Bloke: Obfuscated UI is nice and all, but C is a pain, and fast is overrated.  If you just wrote it in Haskell...
[21:18]  * LarstiQ cringes at the nested-trees/bzr.dev diff
[21:18] <emmajane> PS I hate IE...
[21:18]  * jelmer cheers on LarstiQ
[21:18] <beuno> emmajane, we all do  :)
[21:19] <emmajane> Just thought I'd throw that in there.
[21:19]  * emmajane grins.
[21:19] <Odd_Bloke> fullermd: :D
[21:19] <emmajane> thanks for the suggestions, everyone. :)
[21:19] <beuno> welcome'
[21:20] <beuno> and, hurray for LarstiQ finishing nested tree support!
[21:22] <LarstiQ> hah, that's a bit premature :)
[21:23] <beuno> :)
[21:24] <NfNitLoop> ooh, nested tree support.
[21:24] <emmajane> a tag applies to all files, not just the files in that sub-directory, right?
[21:24] <NfNitLoop> What sort of support is that?  :)
[21:24] <LarstiQ> NfNitLoop: lp:~larstiq/bzr/nested-trees
[21:24] <jelmer> emmajane, yep
[21:25] <LarstiQ> emmajane: it applies to a revision, so the versions of all files in the tree at that point
[21:25]  * emmajane nods
[21:25] <emmajane> and I assume I have to commit after adding a tag?
[21:26] <beuno> nope
[21:26] <emmajane> interesting.
[21:26] <beuno> that's one way of putting it, yes  :)
[21:26] <emmajane> what happens if there are changed files ... does the tag apply itself to the last commit?
[21:26] <LarstiQ> beuno: it's a 97k diff, so this will take a while. And then there is fixing the outstanding problems off course. But if you want to help stress test whay I do, please!
[21:27] <fullermd> The tag points at whatever revision you tell it to point at (which is the last commit if you don't say something else)
[21:27]  * emmajane nods
[21:27] <emmajane> again.. "interesting"
[21:27] <emmajane> tags == flags == bookmarks.
[21:28] <beuno> LarstiQ, ah, 97k sounds like fun. Another reason to finish the implementation ASAP  :)
[21:28] <beuno> I'll branch and start poking at it
[21:28] <beuno> what repo format do I need to use it?
[21:29] <LarstiQ> beuno: --development-subtree
[21:29] <beuno> LarstiQ, Format <RepositoryFormatKnit1> for lp-140342092:///~larstiq/bzr/nested-trees/.bzr is deprecated - please use 'bzr upgrade' to get better performance
[21:30] <LarstiQ> beuno: bpierre was trying it out yesterday, and didn't get it to work. I got the same thing. But today I tried afresh, and it works. Difference: using a repository or entirely standalone (the latter works)
[21:30] <LarstiQ> beuno: so be warned of that
[21:30] <LarstiQ> beuno: yeah, I know :)
[21:30] <LarstiQ> beuno: and nested-trees is probably one of the trees with funky revisions, so I'll need to reconcile it.
[21:31] <GaryvdM> LarstiQ: No - I live in South Africa
[21:31]  * LarstiQ nods at GaryvdM
[21:31] <LarstiQ> GaryvdM: but that in itself doesn't prevent you from visiting :)
[21:31] <GaryvdM> Yes
[21:31] <GaryvdM> I don't think so.
[21:32] <GaryvdM> I'm not working in IT atm.
[21:32] <LarstiQ> GaryvdM: ah, ok.
[21:32] <GaryvdM> Do you know me?
[21:32] <beuno> LarstiQ, note, need a standalone
[21:32] <LarstiQ> GaryvdM: nope!
[21:33] <LarstiQ> GaryvdM: other than from qbzr
[21:34] <GaryvdM> Ok - was just wondering - cause I worked in Maastricht for a while.
[21:35] <LarstiQ> GaryvdM: most people from South Africa I know live/work in the Delft area. And the StoneThree people.
[21:36] <GaryvdM> That is interesting.
[22:20] <danielfolsom> whenever i try to do bzr launchpad-login Danielfolsom, an error comes up: " https://launchpad.net/%7EDanielfolsom/%2Bsshkeys is permanently redirected to https://launchpad.net/~danielfolsom/+sshkeys "
[22:20] <danielfolsom> any ideas?
[22:21] <LarstiQ> danielfolsom: try with daniefolsom instead of Danielfolsom?
[22:21] <LarstiQ> modulo the l
[22:21] <LarstiQ> danielfolsom: the point being upper -> lower case
[22:21] <danielfolsom> omg that did it
[22:21] <danielfolsom> i'm so sorry
[22:21] <LarstiQ> danielfolsom: that's ok :)
[22:21] <danielfolsom> thanks very much!
[22:28] <LaserJock> I've got a perhaps stupid bzr repo question
[22:29] <LaserJock> if I've got a repo, and then two branches that are similar, but different depths, will they still share history?
[22:29] <danielfolsom> does anyone who uses bzr on a mac know if there's a way to update it? And also, would anyone know why bzr would keep freezing up (very consistently)?
[22:29] <LaserJock> my use case is using bzr svn to get different depths of a SVN repo
[22:29] <LarstiQ> LaserJock: yes
[22:30] <LarstiQ> LaserJock: what do you mean with 'different depths' of an SVN repo?
[22:30] <LarstiQ> danielfolsom: get a newer version of bzr? I'm not a mac user, but doesn't bazaar-vcs.org carry .dmgs?
[22:30] <LaserJock> what I mean is, the svn repo has a trunk/<project>/ structure
[22:30] <LarstiQ> danielfolsom: and could you describe the freezing in more detail?
[22:31] <LaserJock> if I branch both trunk/ and trunk/project/ will the repo know that they share history?
[22:31] <LarstiQ> LaserJock: bzr init-repo repo; cd repo; bzr branch foo; mkdir deeper; cd deeper; bzr branch bar;
[22:31] <danielfolsom> LarstiQ: oh ok - and then just another random question - is there any way to uninstall? (just so i know for future reference)
[22:31] <LarstiQ> LaserJock: foo and bar share history
[22:31] <danielfolsom> LarstiQ: it just stops about 1/4 of the way through
[22:31] <LarstiQ> LaserJock: specifically in the case of svn though, they might not have any revisions in common, possibly
[22:32] <LarstiQ> danielfolsom: on mac? No clue. For me it would be apt-get remove bzr.
[22:32] <LarstiQ> danielfolsom: I think it's not freezing, but rather taking a long time.
[22:33] <danielfolsom> LarstiQ: possibly - i'll get back to you after i update - it does say it has to redirect
[22:37] <danielfolsom> BasicOSX: i assume you use bzr with a mac
[22:38] <BasicOSX> danielfolsom:  hourly
[22:38] <danielfolsom> do you know how to uninstall (I'd like to know for the future)
[22:38] <BasicOSX> I pull from bzr.dev repo
[22:38] <BasicOSX> I don't use a package or anything like that
[22:38] <danielfolsom> ahh ok - thanks
[22:39] <danielfolsom> so just bzr pull bzr.dev repo - and that's it?
[22:39] <BasicOSX> Look at appzapper, it will do what you want
[22:39] <BasicOSX> in ~/projects/bzr.dev
[22:39] <LarstiQ> going out on a limb here, but don't .dmgs have their own uninstall facilities?
[22:39] <BasicOSX> then I symlink ~/bin/bzr to ~/projects/bzr.dev/bzr
[22:39] <BasicOSX> and make sure ~/bin/ is first in my path
[22:40] <BasicOSX> just drag the app into trash that does what you want
[22:40] <BasicOSX> appzapper will kill all conf files and whatnot
[22:40] <danielfolsom> haha - that's all a bit over my head
[22:40] <BasicOSX> osx != windows
[22:41] <danielfolsom> and i can't actually find the bzr app, so i don't think appzapper will work
[22:41] <BasicOSX> if installed via dmg should be in /Applications
[22:41] <danielfolsom> yeah - i can't seem to find it
[22:41] <danielfolsom> so i guess that means i didn't install via dmg
[22:42] <LarstiQ> danielfolsom: darwin ports or similar?
[22:42] <danielfolsom> side question: the way you know that bzr is frozen is if the line stops spinning, right?
[22:43] <danielfolsom> LarstiQ: idk, sorry - i've never used darwin before i don't think though
[22:43] <danielfolsom> possibly via svn ... for some reason i just can't find anything
[22:43] <LarstiQ> danielfolsom: no, the line can spin so slowly that you don't see it moving
[22:43] <danielfolsom> o ok
[22:43] <BasicOSX> there is a darwin port, but I haven't used it
[22:44] <danielfolsom> when i put bzr in the search box i get README.txt, bzr.rb, bzlib.h, and bzlib.h - i don't know why there are two
[22:44] <LarstiQ> bzlib.h is bz2 compression, nor bzr
[22:48] <danielfolsom> that's weird - it's still saying i need to update the server to bazaar 1.2, but usng bzr branch http://bazaar-vcs.org/bzr/bzr.dev bzr.dev - i thought i just upgraded to 1.5
[22:48] <Peng_> danielfolsom: Known issue. An RPC was removed in 1.6, so older clients assume the server is older than 1.2.
[22:49]  * Peng_ just walked in on this conversation.
[22:49] <danielfolsom> haha no worries
[22:50] <danielfolsom> actually my real problem is  bzr isn't downloading successfully - it did what i said correctly, but when i do bzr branch lp:getting-down-with - it stops 1/4 of the way through
[22:50] <danielfolsom> and i don't think that it's that huge of a file
[22:51] <LarstiQ> /home/larstiq/bin/bzr get lp:getting-down-with  2.39s user 0.40s system 10% cpu 26.783 total
[22:51] <LarstiQ> it isn't that huge
[22:52] <LarstiQ> danielfolsom: do you have strace or somesuch?
[22:52] <danielfolsom> strace? no
[22:53] <danielfolsom> oh wait! Wow, well it took 10 minutes (13 minutes to be exact), but it finally got it
[22:53] <danielfolsom> thanks for all your help!
[22:54] <LarstiQ> danielfolsom: np.
[23:01] <LaserJock> huh, fascinating
[23:01] <LaserJock> bzr is really smart
[23:01] <LaserJock> or maybe I'm just a tad slow ;-)
[23:02] <LaserJock> but it amazes me that I could create a shared repo, bzr branch trunk/ from an LP code import, and then bzr branch trunk/<project/ from the SVN repo directly
[23:03] <danielfolsom> ok i have one more question (sorry to keep coming back): is there a way to see what someone did in a specific diff?
[23:04] <LaserJock> and I lose nothing, each branch only costs me 40KB
[23:07] <danielfolsom> anyone know?
[23:07] <fullermd> danielfolsom: What, you mean just from bzr diff?
[23:08] <danielfolsom> can you use diff to see what someone did in a certain revision? Say revision 177?
[23:08] <fullermd> bzr diff -c177
[23:08] <danielfolsom> o sweet - i never knew about that
[23:09] <danielfolsom> thank you!
[23:09] <LaserJock> bzr help diff has lots of neat things you can do :-)
[23:10] <LarstiQ> danielfolsom: you're welcome to stay around, no need to quit :)
[23:11] <danielfolsom> sweet :)
[23:12] <LaserJock> LarstiQ: do you know if either possible or done already to have bzr remove unneeded revisions from a shared repo
[23:14] <LarstiQ> LaserJock: one way is branching to a new repository
[23:14] <LarstiQ> LaserJock: sorry, I'm falling asleep right now
[23:15] <LarstiQ> LaserJock: also look at the plugins page
[23:15] <jfroy|work> w00t
[23:15] <jfroy|work> I completed Brian de Alwis's work and did the small bit of work left in bzr-svn's ra.c file to enable keychain authentication on Mac OS X
[23:16] <LarstiQ> jfroy|work: cool!
[23:16]  * LarstiQ detaches, be back tomorrow