[06:43] <luna_work> any chance to get this: https://github.com/ubuntu/app-center/pull/1452 https://github.com/ubuntu/app-center/issues/1453 merged in before Thursday?
[06:43] -ubottu:#ubuntu-desktop- Pull 1452 in ubuntu/app-center "Translations update from Hosted Weblate" [Open]
[06:43] -ubottu:#ubuntu-desktop- Issue 1453 in ubuntu/app-center "Swedish translation done for 23.10" [Open]
[07:53] <seb128> goood morning desktopers
[09:38] <nteodosio> Hey seb128 good morning! How was the weekend?
[09:38] <seb128> nteodosio, hey, quite good and relaxing, nice weather for the season! How was yours?
[09:40] <nteodosio> Indeed, likewise! Seems that the next one won't have the same good weather so I've made sure to enjoy it. (:
[09:40] <seb128> indeed, well it's about time for summer to be over, it's almost mid-octobre!
[09:41] <nteodosio> I'll miss it nonetheless. :P
[16:17] <Eickmeyer> jbicha: RE: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-meta/+bug/2033440/comments/4 : It might be worth having conversations in Riga with Filipe Coelho and Robin Gareus at Summit in Riga on their opinions regarding that as they would be the leading experts (Filipe is the main developer on JACK these days).... (cont'd)
[16:17] -ubottu:#ubuntu-desktop- Launchpad bug 2033440 in ubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "ubuntu-desktop: unnecessary hard 'Depends: pipewire-audio'" [Undecided, New]
[16:18] <Eickmeyer> and their opinions are why the switching was developed in the first place.
[16:18] <Eickmeyer> Whether or not it will be ready for professional audio kindof requires spherical glass insight, afaiac. :)
[16:19] <Eickmeyer> However, they're the ones that have more insight. falktx (Filipe) and x42 (Robin) if you want to discuss in #lad (Linux Audio Developers) ever, and even wtay (Wim Taymans, PipeWire Lead) can be found there too.


[09:48] <Tonio_> morning everyone
[03:49] <icefox> ping _Sime
[04:03] <_Sime> icefox: twang! (I might be available later tonight)
[04:39] <icefox> ok, buzz me when you are around
[04:39] <icefox> I was curious what you ment by the fact that the keyboard was hard to find in the system settings
[04:41] <Riddell> icefox: oh, that part might have been me
[04:41] <Riddell> sime wants a new keyboard module thingy
[04:41] <icefox> a new keyboard module thingy?
[04:42] <icefox> something with system settings or in the os?
[04:42] <Riddell> icefox: but the finding the keyboard is a problem because there's a "keyboard" module with nothg very useful and there's the "regional" module with all the useful keyboard stuff
[04:42] <Riddell> icefox: sime wants a new guidance kcontrol module
[04:42] <Riddell> but that's a separate issue
[04:45] <Drakeson> is the sudo issue still there? (just create another user, add it to adm, and sudo groups, and there we are: login using that new user, sudo smothing, and note that no one asks for the password!)
[04:46] <icefox> Riddell: yah the keyboard stuff is a mess
[04:47] <hunger> icefox: I think the shortcuts stuff is even worse...
[04:47] <icefox> ok, just making sure we were on the same page, I'll see if I can't do the same work for 3.5 and 4
[04:47] <icefox> hunger: do you mean the application keyboard shortcuts?
[04:47] <icefox> or shortcuts in general?
[04:47] <hunger> icefox: Botd.
[04:47] <icefox> botd?
[04:48] <icefox> both?
[04:48] <Riddell> Drakeson: "admin" group
[04:48] <Drakeson> Riddell: yeah that one as well
[04:48] <Riddell> Drakeson: does it work on the command line?
[04:49] <hunger> icefox: There are "Global shortcuts", "Shortcut sequences" and "Application Shortcuts" in the control center.
[04:49] <icefox> yah
[04:49] <icefox> I want to clean that up
[04:49] <Drakeson> Riddell: not sure, but told it to someone in #ubuntu, he checked it and approved the bug, but I didn't notice what happened next
[04:49] <hunger> icefox: Then there are more shortcuts to be configured in the apps.
[04:50] <icefox> http://wiki.kde.org/?page=System+Settings
[04:50] <hunger> icefox: And you can set Shortcuts in the menu editor, too. Plus khotkeys (or whatever that gesture/stuff thingy is called).
[04:50] <hunger> icefox: kate even has several inner-app shortcut pages.
[04:51] <icefox> every kde app should have a shortcut configure dialog, but yes kate takes it one more level
[04:51] <Drakeson> Riddell: it was really scary for me, because it kills security badly. just imagine someone publish ascript that does bad things and contains a sudo line, and you don't even notice what happened.
[04:51] <hunger> icefox: It is a pita to try to find out what a key actually does;-)
[04:52] <icefox> yes
[04:56] <Drakeson> hunger, icefox: I think it should be possible for the search bar to search through "Shortcut" col as well as the "Action" col there. And also there should be a way to put "Global Shortcuts" some apps define by themselves into keyboard shortcuts module.
[04:56] <hunger> Drakeson: That would help!
[04:56] <icefox> col?
[04:56] <icefox> column?
[04:56] <Drakeson> column
[04:57] <hunger> Drakeson: Then I only need to find out which config dialog I need to open;-)
[04:57] <icefox> well right now it uses the strings in the desktop file, so if they don't have shortcut we should add them
[04:59] <Drakeson> what's wrong with some apps like say kopete, which have global shortcuts, without any trace in the module we are talking about. (while some apps like klipper have their shortcuts there)
[05:00] <icefox> desktop applications should have shortcuts there (i.e what goes in kdebase)
[05:01] <Drakeson> if an app defines global shortcuts I think it must go there as well.
[05:04] <Drakeson> Riddell: can you check the sudo issue please :D
[05:05] <Riddell> Drakeson: what is the issue?
[05:06] <Drakeson> create a new user, add it to sudo, adm, admin, and login using it. now sudo ls. does it ask for a password?
[05:06] <Drakeson> for me it doesn't
[05:09] <Drakeson> Riddell: another thing: I am really sorry I couldn't manage to find a suitable image for the CD sleeve/cover.
[05:15] <Riddell> Drakeson: do you have SVGs of yor stuff?
[05:15] <Drakeson> yeah, at the same place, just a moment
[05:16] <Riddell> Drakeson: if you get me an SVG of the sort of design you were showing a few days ago I can slap a konqi or kubuntu-girl on it and finish it off
[05:16] <seaLne> can kubuntu-girl get a blue background this time?
[05:17] <Riddell> seaLne: yes defaintly, I was trying to move away from just using blue with the purple but it doesn't work very well
[05:17] <Riddell> well, actually it should have Drakeson's backgrounds
[05:18] <seaLne> i like the idea of a breezy cd having a picture of someone looking at a hoary cd on it :)
[05:18] <apokryphos> seaLne: breezy CD cover hadn't been made yet ;-)
[05:19] <Riddell> of course I'll need a kubuntu-boy for dapper
[05:19] <seaLne> although if you changed it so that she was holding a breezy cd that would be a very nice recursive image :)
[05:19] <Drakeson> Riddell: http://gazor3.ece.queensu.ca/~hon/Drakeson/
[05:20] <Riddell> Drakeson: wonderful
[05:20] <apokryphos> very very sweet
[05:21] <apokryphos> 64 bits, or 64-bit?
[05:22] <Drakeson> that's not final ( or even close to final) because it is not possible to print it for cover, so yes I need to spell check :)
[05:22] <seaLne> not normally plural i'd have said
[05:23] <Drakeson> (and sorry for my never ending missssspellings ;) )
[05:23] <apokryphos> might also be a good idea to have an indication on the Install CD (that it is the Install CD). But it's very n ice; good stuff! :)
[05:24] <apokryphos> Drakeson: more just an unconventional way of writing it; not really a seplling mistake ;-)
[05:25] <Drakeson> anyway, we still need to have something to put on the sleeve, or we can settle on konqi/kubuntu-girl
[05:26] <Drakeson> I was thinking of a computer lab with lot's of computer running kubuntu, but I couldn't find such a lab yet ;)
[05:51] <Drakeson> what do you think of adding something like this (just the concept, the current one is crap) for the cd cover/sleeve?
[05:51] <Drakeson> http://gazor3.ece.queensu.ca/~hon/Drakeson/lab1.png
[05:53] <Riddell> Drakeson: that could work but it would have to be a real photo I think
[05:54] <Riddell> we just need seaLne to install it in a lab at his university quietly one evening
[05:56] <Drakeson> ;) it would be nice if it is a dense, modern computer lab.
[05:56] <Drakeson> I couldn't find a picture of a better computer lab in ggi: yet ;)
[05:59] <Drakeson> I don't have a good camera at the moment. Another idea is something like this: http://gazor3.ece.queensu.ca/~hon/Drakeson/achive.jpg
[06:00] <Riddell> Drakeson: hmm, interesting
[06:01] <Drakeson> honestly I think the current konqi is not good looking enough, but I cannot change it now.
[06:43] <pef_aw> Riddell: hello, how can I know packages which will be auto mass synced from debian ? like kdissert, I've uploaded a sync from debian to revu, useless work :/
[06:44] <Riddell> pef: everything is synced from debian at start of release cycle unless there is a version number with "ubuntu" in it
[06:44] <pef> Riddell: ok, and where can I see sync progression ?
[06:44] <Riddell> this is fun, kubuntu-girl just got a job working with badgers
[06:45] <Riddell> pef: dapper-changes
[06:45] <DrakeSon> what job?
[06:45] <Riddell> pef: you can also ask for a sync from debian fo -ubuntu packages if you don't mind the ubuntu history being wiped out
[06:45] <pef> Riddell: yes, for already done packages, but what about remaining packages ?
[06:45] <Riddell> Drakeson: vetinary
[06:46] <Riddell> Drakeson: I presume they will be breezy badgers once she has fixed all their illnesses :)
[06:46] <Drakeson> cooool :)
[06:47] <Drakeson> can we have cool/crazy badger image? :D ;)
[06:48] <Riddell> pef: dunno, are there packages still to be done?
[06:48] <Drakeson> or even a silhouette of a real badger may be useful
[06:49] <Riddell> not soon, she's not starting yet
[06:52] <pef> Riddell: I've added a problem with kmail from kde3.5 beta2 to wikipage
[06:53] <Riddell> pef: URL?
[06:54] <pef> Riddell: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuKDE35BetaKnownProblems
[06:55] <Riddell> gosh, lots on that page.
[06:55] <Riddell> will be very useful for things to look out for when I make proper KDE 3.5 packages
[06:56] <pef> Riddell: I'm working on this bug :)
[06:59] <tvo> speaking about KubuntuKDE35BetaKnownProblems, does anyone else have the problem that "Create Folder" is grayed-out on my usbpen?
[06:59] <tvo> (pasting a new folder works, mkdir works)
[06:59] <hunger> tvo: No, but then I do not have access to your usb pen:-)
[07:00] <hunger> tvo: let me check with mine.
[07:00] <tvo> well, any usbpen :)
[07:01] <hunger> tvo: "Create New" is greyed out here, too.
[07:01] <tvo> oh, sorry, "Create New" was what I meant yeah
[07:02] <tvo> I'll add it to KubuntuKDE35BetaKnownProblems then
[07:02] <hunger> Anyone else having problems with kdesktop?
[07:02] <hunger> It crashes here whenever I click on anything in the background.
[07:13] <tvo> hunger: I think I had that 10 times or so just after upgrading to beta2, but it the problem disappeared..
[07:14] <hunger> tvo: Stays persistent here:-(
[07:14] <Riddell> sebas: your MWG story talks about an "initial charter", that needs to be available online
[07:32] <allee> pef, Riddell: FWIW debian pkger plan to start pkg 3.5 rc1 next weekend.  Maybe keep an eye on #debian-qt-kde?
[07:34] <allee> you want post wikipage url KubuntuKDE35BetaKnownProblems on?  Should I?
[07:35] <pef> allee: please post it, I have t go on a few minutes :)
[07:35] <allee> 'k
[07:36] <allee> pef have a nice internet free evening ;)
[07:37] <pef> allee: thank you :)
[07:37] <pef> bye !
[07:37] <allee> bye pef
[07:38] <Riddell> allee: cool, thanks for the notice
[07:58] <_Sime> icefox: ping
[08:57] <icefox> _Sime|afk: pong
[10:31] <Riddell> Drakeson_away: is there a licence on that artwork?
[11:02] <_Sime> icefox: hey


[05:24] <thatgraemeguy> morning
[06:07] <Kilos> hi thatgraemeguy
[06:07] <Kilos> morning everyone else
[06:07] <Kilos> Maaz tell superfly Wke up sleepy head
[06:07] <Maaz> Kilos: Okay, I'll tell superfly on freenode
[06:09] <Kilos> hi Cryterion inetpro dude42 MaNL paddatrapper theblazehen Xethron
[06:09] <Kilos> ohi confluency welcome back
[06:10] <paddatrapper> Morning oom Kilos
[06:10] <paddatrapper> Kilos: superfly has been in Joburg for about an hour already
[06:10] <Kilos> oh my
[06:11] <Kilos> oh yes interview today
[06:11] <Kilos> hope  all goes well
[06:18] <confluency> Hi, everyone.
[06:19] <MaNL> hi
[06:20] <Cryterion> Mornings
[06:23] <inetpro> Guten Morgen
[07:34] <theblazehen> hi Kilos
[09:46] <Langjan> Hi Kilos als wel? Nuus van Oz?
[10:43] <Kilos> ek is hier Langjan
[10:43] <Kilos> ek praat daagliks met hulle
[10:44] <Kilos> warm weer hier
[10:52] <Kilos> weer as in again
[10:52] <Kilos> i think we gonna suffer in february
[10:58] <paddatrapper> Kilos: if it's like this already Feb is going to kill us
[10:58] <Kilos> yip or try to anyway
[11:02] <Kilos> weatherman says 34°c here but feels warmer
[11:02] <Kilos> barable though
[11:02] <Kilos> bareable
[11:02] <Kilos> Maaz spell bareable
[11:02] <Maaz> Kilos: That doesn't seem correct, but I can't find anything to suggest
[11:02] <Kilos> ai!
[11:03] <Kilos> bot getting old like me
[11:03] <Maaz> Kilos: Huh?
[11:03] <Kilos> Maaz botsnack
[11:03] <Maaz> YAY someone cares about me too!
[11:26] <paddatrapper> Only 23 here at the moment
[12:06] <Langjan> Bearable
[12:07] <Langjan> Where are you located paddatrapper ?
[12:08] <Kilos> capetown Langjan
[12:08] <Langjan> OK makes sense, thats near the south pole
[12:08] <Kilos> lol
[12:08] <Kilos> and melbourne even closer
[12:09] <Langjan> ja
[12:09] <Langjan> wb Kilos?
[12:09] <Kilos> ty sir
[12:10] <Kilos> just slep for a while
[12:10] <Langjan> me too lmga
[12:10] <Kilos> but i answered you long ago before sleeping
[12:10] <Langjan> I saw that, suppose you were chasin sheep
[12:11] <Kilos> lol
[12:11] <Kilos> no man working on ians car on and off in the hot sun and also killing ants all around the house here
[12:11] <Langjan> 16.04 running very well
[12:12] <Langjan> ok gotta go for lunch chat later
[12:12] <Kilos> some vrek easy with dyant others just get fewer
[12:12] <Kilos> enjoy
[12:12] <Kilos> im glad 16.04 going good there
[12:12] <Kilos> seems they sorted all the bugs
[12:12] <Kilos> or most that make it functional anyway
[12:32] <Langjan> Looks like
[12:32] <Langjan> ok gotta go try config gmail on somebody's win xp
[12:33] <Langjan> mooi bly
[12:33] <Kilos> enjoy
[12:33] <Langjan> on win? Lmga
[12:33] <Kilos> hahaha
[12:33] <Langjan> but thks
[12:33] <Kilos> convert them
[12:34] <Langjan> wife is converted man is hardegat as usual
[12:34] <Kilos> lol
[12:34] <Langjan> but he will come around as he sees she is not battling
[12:34] <Kilos> hahaha
[12:41] <superfly> Kilos: I got my visa!
[12:41] <Maaz> superfly: By the way, Kilos on freenode told me "tell superfly Wke up sleepy head" 6 hours, 33 minutes and 13 seconds ago
[12:41] <Kilos> wonderful superfly well done
[12:41] <superfly> Kilos: I was awake at 5:30
[12:41] <Kilos> im happy for you
[12:41] <Kilos> when do you fly
[12:41] <Kilos> lotsa hugging to catch up on
[12:41] <superfly> Will be booking tickets this evening
[12:42] <Kilos> great news my friend
[12:42] <Kilos> God bless
[12:45] <paddatrapper> Maaz: Tell Langjan I'm in Cape Town
[12:45] <Maaz> paddatrapper: Got it, I'll tell Langjan on freenode
[12:45] <paddatrapper> superfly: Great news!!
[12:50]  * Kilos happy for the fly but sad to lose him amongst us
[12:56] <Kilos> we just have to stay up later
[12:56] <Kilos> or let maaz spam him
[13:01] <superfly> :-P
[13:58] <Kilos> wbb
[15:01] <Kilos> hmm... topic not updated as usual
[16:34] <paddatrapper> Kilos: Which part is out of date?
[16:34]  * paddatrapper can't see all of it
[16:34] <paddatrapper> and is too lazy to check...
[17:05] <Kilos> sorry paddatrapper busy in another room. installing 16.04 onto ssd
[17:06] <Kilos> the next meeting part the pro hasnt done yet
[17:06] <Kilos> internet dicey here
[17:06] <paddatrapper> Kilos: No worries
[17:07] <Kilos> but leave messages and ill get them because desktop runninmg
[17:07] <Kilos> might just take a while
[18:00] <superfly> Bye bye Jozi, I probably won't see you again.
[18:15] <MaNI> don't be so sure, once trump becomes dicatator for life he might deport you :p
[18:15] <MaNI> *dictator


[12:29]  * popey waves at kim0
[12:29] <popey> http://foss-boss.blogspot.com/2010/11/ubuntu-cloud-screencasts-volunteers.html <- what you after?
[12:29] <kim0> popey: hey there
[12:29] <kim0> the screencast master
[12:29] <kim0> hehe
[12:30] <kim0> I'd like to intro how easy it is to run Ubuntu in the cloud is
[12:30] <popey> ok
[12:31] <kim0> If anyone is interested in contributing casts .. ping me
[12:31]  * kim0 waves
[14:54] <madtimber> anyone awake?
[14:54] <TeTeT> madtimber: yep, what's up?
[14:55] <madtimber> what would be the benefit of running one of Amazon's Elastic Load Balancers in front of my servers, AND having nginx running on each web server?
[15:02] <TeTeT> sorry, no idea
[15:04] <madtimber> no problem
[15:31] <jmgalloway> anyone here good with security groups?
[15:35] <jmgalloway> I need to know how to open ports with no names attached to them
[15:56] <smoser> jmgalloway, you can specify ports by number
[15:56] <smoser> is that what you meant ?
[16:02] <jmgalloway> I figured it out, thanks though.  yeah..that's what I meant
[16:02] <jmgalloway> well I was going to open ports by a range say like 1000-1020, but that is not necessary now
[16:33] <smoser> jmgalloway, well, ec2-authorize <group_name> --port-range 1-65534
[18:08] <jmgalloway> can someone show me the command of how to launch an instance with a specific security group?
[18:08] <jmgalloway> or does it only rely on the key that is generated when the user is created?
[18:31] <jmgalloway> anyone?
[18:36] <jmgalloway> nm...I figured it out
[20:01] <jmgalloway> so when i create a new user, a key is generated. where is this key stored on the server?
[20:30] <flaccid> how did you create this user?
[20:40] <jmgalloway> through the web interface
[20:42] <flaccid> what web interface
[20:46] <jmgalloway> uec web interface that runs on the cloud controller
[20:46] <flaccid> oh right, i don't use uec, sorry
[20:46] <flaccid> well not yet :)
[20:46] <jmgalloway> what do you use?
[20:47] <flaccid> rightscale and APIs
[20:47] <jmgalloway> basically I need to know where the key pair is stored on the cloud controller when a user is created.  I am developing an interface that generates a vm through a gui.
[20:48] <jmgalloway> using php-cli...so it seems that the user doesnt need to do a key download, or needs it at all if I do it this way.
[21:46] <jturek> kim0: yo!


[00:04] <Sarvatt> dang, forcing it into the initrd gives me a high resolution text renderer splash now
[00:24] <Sarvatt> hmm vga16fb doesn't load at all if i put all the gpu modules in the initrd actually
[04:30] <Sarvatt> lol oops, KMS wiki page said to echo blacklist nouveau > /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist.conf ....
[04:30] <Sarvatt> hope noone actually did that :D
[06:00] <Sarvatt> what to do about this sisimedia driver..
[06:01] <Sarvatt> i've been working on it for awhile not but it's a pain in the butt. they patched the heck out of a *really* old sis release and it needs a ton of fixes for xserver 1.7
[06:43] <tjaalton> Sarvatt: don't bother, it should be merged with sis
[06:43] <tjaalton> some distro has done that, but can't remember which one
[06:45] <Sarvatt> mandriva
[06:45] <tjaalton> right
[06:45] <tjaalton> they should push it upstream
[06:45] <Sarvatt> and it doesnt work in cooker there either
[06:46] <tjaalton> though it doesn't matter who does the work, so go for it ;)
[07:00] <Sarvatt> huh
[07:00] <Sarvatt> #6  0x0816848c in RRScreenSizeSet (pScreen=0x8965720, width=1280, height=28864, mmWidth=169,  mmHeight=126) at ../../randr/rrscreen.c:185
[07:00] <Sarvatt> thats some height
[07:24] <Sarvatt> yeeeep bug 535640 happens on all generations for sure
[07:24] <superm1> and it's annoying as heck too :)
[07:24] <Sarvatt> yep!
[07:24] <Sarvatt> fix will be in *soon*
[07:25] <Sarvatt> kernel team thought it was still applied but it wasn't
[07:25] <superm1> every time it's happened to me i've been stuck behind proxies and unable to upload a report, so i'm glad to hear it's more commo
[07:25] <superm1> n
[07:26] <Sarvatt> you can disable turning off the display in power management and not blank the screen with a screensaver for now to fix it
[07:26] <superm1> cool, thanks
[07:29] <superm1> there's one other big one i keep seeing on my intel boxes.  the bottom of the display turns all jittery whenever i type and gets worse as i type more.  if i vt switch or restart X it appears to go away for a bit though
[07:29] <Sarvatt> that one i just saw reported for the first time today
[07:29] <Sarvatt> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/549989
[07:29] <superm1> yup
[07:30] <Sarvatt> does it only happen with gnome-terminal for you?
[07:30] <superm1> come to think of it, that's the only time i've ever noticed it
[07:30] <superm1> let me grab it and see if it's acting up right now
[07:30] <Sarvatt> yeah i dont think thats a problem in intel, i only get something similar in gnome-terminal
[07:31] <Sarvatt> moving the mouse up to gnome panel clears it
[07:31] <Sarvatt> it started when the CSD stuff was added to gtk+ but that was backed out and i still have it
[07:32] <superm1> of course it's stable right now
[07:32] <superm1> it's only when i'm doing important things that it likes to happen
[07:33] <Sarvatt> yeah same here :D
[07:33] <Sarvatt> i get it like once a week or so, but sometimes it gets real bad and i get it like 10 times in a day
[07:33] <superm1> it's usually hourly for me
[07:34] <Sarvatt> it makes my whole screen black except for a sliver up at the panel and moving the cursor up to the panel fixes it. really weird
[07:34] <superm1> if i dont vt switch or log out / in i'm sure to get some kind of black out on the screen when it starts happening
[07:34] <superm1> i'll keep that in mind next time it happens to see if i'm as lucky
[07:34] <Sarvatt> it usually happens when I pageup or pagedown in nano
[07:35] <Sarvatt> wish i could figure that one out
[07:36] <Sarvatt> happens on 2.6.31-2.6.34, with or without compiz, and on intel 2.9.1 through 2.10.903
[07:36] <Sarvatt> and only in gnome-terminal..
[07:36] <Sarvatt> actually when the CSD stuff was in it happened in xchat too
[07:36] <Sarvatt> scrolling up and down the screen there too
[07:37] <superm1> can't seem to induce it with a pg up/down here
[07:41] <Sarvatt> asking in ubuntu-desktop if anyone has any idea where to start digging into it :)
[07:49] <superm1> lshw -c video corrupted it in a much more fun and colorful way
[07:57] <Sarvatt> ok on 945 the error state looks like this instead of the easily recognizable 965+ ones even though its the same bug - http://launchpadlibrarian.net/41715185/i915_error_state.txt
[07:57] <Sarvatt> i just enabled screen blanking and such and I get that same error state, there goes another 50 intel bugs to be duped :)
[07:58] <Sarvatt> well thats what 915-945 look like i should say, not just 945
[08:25] <Sarvatt> superm1: the lshw thing is fixed in 2.6.32-18 thats built just doesnt have a linux-meta yet
[08:25] <Sarvatt> can blacklist vga16fb to fix that for now too otherwise :D
[08:25] <Sarvatt> should be fixed I should say, I haven't tested it yet
[08:28] <Sarvatt> sheesh the more I close intel bugs the more nouveau bugs go up
[09:19] <Duke`> I feel a little performance regression in latest mesa/dri/i945
[09:19] <Duke`> well, it's just glxgears, so maybe there is no real regression, but...
[09:23] <Sarvatt> are you using a 2.6.32+ kernel?
[09:30] <Duke`> 2.6.33
[09:31] <Duke`> at glxgears, I experience a drop from 1200 to 900 fps
[16:24] <Sarvatt> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-graphics-drivers/+bug/549318
[16:24] <Sarvatt> is that even supposed to work?
[16:30] <BUGabundo> I had one of those Sarvatt
[16:30] <BUGabundo> seems fixed now
[16:31]  * BUGabundo reads the bug details
[16:31] <BUGabundo> ok, not multicard nor multi monitor
[17:48] <Sarvatt> BUGabundo: still hitting any of your old bugs with the blob?
[17:48] <Sarvatt> suspend/resume working? can ya vt switch?
[17:49] <BUGabundo> Sarvatt: all fine so far
[17:49] <BUGabundo> suspend works, TTYs too
[17:49] <BUGabundo> need to test hibernate
[17:49] <BUGabundo> haven't in a while, last few times I tested it was broken.... and it takes SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO darn long, I rather not use it anymore
[17:50] <Sarvatt> sweet, mind closing those bugs you had open? i asked in the bugs if it was still happening and marked incomplete but dont have them handy :D
[17:50] <BUGabundo> will have to search the email
[17:50] <BUGabundo> were those comments recent?
[17:51] <Sarvatt> yeah hibernate makes no sense to me anymore, not when a normal boot is faster..
[17:51] <BUGabundo> I'm up to date until last night
[17:51] <BUGabundo> Sarvatt: there are two use cases for it:
[17:51] <Sarvatt> oh i'll get it off your launchpad page
[17:51] <BUGabundo> one is where you really need to keep an work flow of open docs
[17:51] <Sarvatt> it was when nvidia-current was updated last right after beta 1
[17:51] <BUGabundo> two when you want to turn of a machine to move around
[17:52] <BUGabundo> no idea
[17:52] <BUGabundo> haven't correlated dates
[17:52] <Sarvatt> session management in the text editor! :D
[17:52] <Sarvatt> chrome/firefox remembering tabs, gedit and geany remembering docs open, thats all i need
[17:54] <BUGabundo> ahh
[17:54] <BUGabundo> kenvandine: FYI increasing gwibber timeout, seems to help me connect to brainbird.net (statusnet) without probs
[17:54] <Sarvatt> oh sweet you have alot of bug reports that are fixed on your reported bug page :)
[17:55] <BUGabundo> o...k...
[18:16] <Sioux-33> hi anyone here?
[18:17] <BUGabundo> no
[18:17] <BUGabundo> we all ran cause of the splits
[18:17] <Sioux-33> hahaha
[18:17] <Sioux-33> hi, ubuntu 9.10 i updated kernel to version <IP_ADDRESS> and mousse cursor is gone dont know what happen any ideas?
[18:23] <Sarvatt> Sioux-33: usb mouse or touchpad?
[18:24] <Sioux-33> touchpad
[18:24] <Sarvatt> sudo apt-get install pastebinit && cat /var/log/Xorg.0.log | pastebinit
[18:24] <Sarvatt> ^ paste that in a terminal and paste the pastebin link it gives if you dont mind :)
[18:26] <Sioux-33> my dear <Sarvatt> u want me to use pastebin now? cos at the moment im using kernel <IP_ADDRESS> and the mousse cursor is working fine. if u want me to boot up to <IP_ADDRESS> then there will be diffucult to use anything cos of no moussse cursor so what do u want me to do?
[18:27] <Sarvatt> did you boot to the non working cursor situation last?
[18:27] <Sarvatt> if so /var/log/Xorg.0.log.old will have the info in it
 one sec yes i booted <IP_ADDRESS>  last let me see if i can find anything
[18:31] <Sarvatt> /var/log/dmesg.1 would be handy too
[18:31] <Sarvatt> for that one use
[18:31] <Sarvatt> zcat /var/log/dmesg.1.gz | pastebini
[18:33] <Sarvatt> actually I would recommend filing a bug with ubuntu-bug linux after booting where you dont have the mouse working, you can press alt+f2 to run the command. do you have an external mouse you can use just to file it?
[18:33] <Sioux-33> nope i dont
[18:33] <Sioux-33> u want me to zcat /var/log/dmesg.1.gz | pastebinit?
[18:33] <Sarvatt> please
[18:35] <Sioux-33> i did zcat /var/log/dmesg.1.gz | pastebinit and then got http://pastebin.com thats all
[18:35] <Sarvatt> darn :(
[18:35] <Sioux-33> what do u want me to do?
[18:36] <Sarvatt> the karmic one must be messed up
[18:36] <Sarvatt> well, run ubuntu-bug linux and attach /var/log/dmesg.1.gz and /var/log/Xorg.0.log.old to it if you dont mind, that would be alot more helpful anyway
[18:37] <Sarvatt> just mention the touchpad doesn't work with 2.6.31-21 but does with 2.6.31-20
[18:38] <Sioux-33> it doesnt with <IP_ADDRESS> generic it doesnt with <IP_ADDRESS> pae it doesnt with <IP_ADDRESS> pae
 can be that it doesnt work cos of graphic card for example?
[18:41] <Sarvatt> i doubt it very much, it would be appreciated if you could file that bug though because thats a pretty nasty problem and that kernel is still in proposed so best to figure it out before it gets moved over to karmic-updates
[18:42] <Sioux-33> ok i will report a bug
[18:42] <Sarvatt> it will automatically fill in almost all of the info, only thing you need to mention is what kernels it works on and which it doesnt and attach those extra logs after if you dont mind
[18:44] <Sarvatt> i'm guessing its going to be http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git?p=ubuntu/ubuntu-karmic.git;a=commit;h=a36ea9e4ead28b3836ba4bd3abaab39fdf16f423 but wont know until I see the bug
[18:46] <Sioux-33> i type in the terminal ubuntu-bug and then what ? i should use ubuntu-bug something
[18:46] <BenHoltz> I need help with ubuntu 10.04 w/integrated intel gfx so that i can use my flat screen TV via VGA. I have tried disabling kms with grub, and no luck. I tried setting it via the wiki suggestions and upon echoing to the i915-kms.conf get permission denied.  any ideas?
[18:47] <Sarvatt> BenHoltz: sudo -i first, then do the echo command
[18:48] <BenHoltz> Sarvatt: I'll try that...  how can we add that to the wiki?
[18:50] <BenHoltz> Sarvatt: Still no dice, after grub it goes out of sync.
[18:55] <BenHoltz> anyone have any clues/suggestions?
[19:05] <BenHoltz> I need help with ubuntu 10.04 w/integrated intel gfx so that i can use my flat screen TV via VGA. I have tried disabling kms with grub, and no luck. I tried setting it via the wiki suggestions and echoing to the i915-kms.conf with no luck .  any ideas?
[19:14]  * BenHoltz wishes for some x expert to magically fall into the room
[19:14] <jcristau> why would you disable kms?
[19:15] <BenHoltz> thats what everyone suggested
[19:15] <BenHoltz> :(
[19:16] <Sarvatt> BenHoltz: file a bug with ubuntu-bug xserver-xorg-video-intel, we dont even know what the problem is and its probably apparent in your logs
[19:17] <jcristau> i don't know who everyone is, and they're usually wrong anyway :)
[19:18] <BenHoltz> jcristau: I agree!
[19:18] <BenHoltz> Sarvatt: via Help>Report a problem?
[19:18] <Sarvatt> press alt+f2 and type ubuntu-bug xserver-xorg-video-intel
[19:19] <BenHoltz> Sarvatt: 10-4.  Thanks!
[19:19] <Sarvatt> be more descriptive of what the problem is outside of it doesn't work if you can :)
[19:20] <BenHoltz> Sarvatt: I will do so.
[19:21] <Sarvatt> thanks, will get the email when it shows up and take a look, hopefully its just something easy
[19:21]  * BenHoltz hopes!
 its done take look at it Bug #550396
[19:25] <Sarvatt> thanks Sioux-33, can you attach /var/log/Xorg.0.log.old to it too?
 how?
[19:28] <Sarvatt> click attach a file at the bottom and navigate to /var/log and pick Xorg.0.log.old
[19:29] <BenHoltz> Sarvatt: submitted Bug #550405
[19:29] <Sarvatt> hmm it is detecting your trackpad as a ImExPS/2 Generic Explorer Mouse
[19:30] <Sarvatt> Sioux-33: looks like you booted with the non working touchpad setup this boot where you filed the bug?
[19:30] <Sioux-33> yes
[19:30] <Sioux-33> i booted <IP_ADDRESS> pae
[19:31] <Sioux-33> and i attached the xorg old
[19:31] <Sioux-33> just now
[19:32] <Sarvatt> thanks, you're booted to a working setup now right? can you also attach /var/log/dmesg and note its from a working setup as well? sorry to be a pain
[19:32] <Sioux-33> ok one sec
[19:33] <Sarvatt> huh, wait a sec, this could very well be a graphics problem..
[19:33] <Sarvatt> you dont have the proprietary drivers installed for the other kernels
 i use ati card ati hd 4850 and i installed ati catalyst in kernel <IP_ADDRESS> so i should if i update kernel the same driver in <IP_ADDRESS>?
[19:35] <Sarvatt> did you install it outside of the package manager system Sioux-33?
[19:35] <Sarvatt> thats what it looks like
[19:35] <Sarvatt> when you do that you need to update it manually every time you install a new kernel
 i updated kernel from synaptic and the driver was from ati website
[19:36] <Sioux-33> so i should boot up <IP_ADDRESS> and then install ati driver again?
[19:36] <Sarvatt> yeah thats the problem here, its *really* not recommended to install it from the ati website by yourself because it doesn't automatically update when you update your kernel
[19:37] <Sarvatt> yeah, that or uninstall it completely and install the ati driver through system - administration - hardware drivers
[19:37] <Sarvatt> i'd really recommend the latter because that way you wont have to manually update it every time you install a new kernel
[19:37] <Sioux-33> the problem is that in synaptic is just open source driver for ati
[19:37] <Sioux-33> so thats why i downloaded the one from ati web
[19:38] <Sioux-33> let me try boot up again to <IP_ADDRESS> and install ati driver ok?
[19:38] <Sarvatt> synaptic isn't what you want, you should have the proprietary drivers available (they're called fglrx) when you go to system - preferences - hardware drivers
[19:38] <Sarvatt> you need to update it for every kernel, switching from generic to generic-pae counts as a new kernel too
[19:39] <Sioux-33> ok brb 3 min
[19:40] <Sarvatt> that will quickly get old if you switch between generic and generic-pae alot and have karmic-proposed enabled :D
[19:40] <BenHoltz> :)
[19:41] <Sarvatt> BenHoltz: okie taking a look at yours..
[19:41] <BenHoltz> Sarvatt: I appreciate your help. :)
[19:42] <Sarvatt> well first thing i noticed is we need to backport http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/driver/xf86-video-intel/commit/?id=3d4b3f257fbbb69c6f236d9803abe54a90d7d434 to 2.9.1 (makes note)
[19:46] <Sarvatt> [   15.576747] [drm:drm_fill_in_dev] *ERROR* Cannot initialize the agpgart module.
[19:46] <Sarvatt> [   15.576793] DRM: Fill_in_dev failed.
[19:47] <BenHoltz> also found a similar message to that in the GdmLog.txt
[19:48] <BenHoltz> No such file or Directory
[19:49] <Sarvatt> ok BenHoltz can you try removing your i915-kms.conf, then edit /etc/initramfs-tools/modules and add these lines (in this order)
[19:50] <BenHoltz> 10-4
[19:50] <Sarvatt> agpgart
[19:50] <Sarvatt> intel_agp
[19:50] <Sarvatt> drm
[19:50] <Sarvatt> i915
[19:50] <Sarvatt> then sudo update-initramfs -u after
[19:51] <jcristau> that sounds wrong
 i dont know who u are but one thing im sure u are the best man:) i been asking on ubuntu forum then ubuntu channel ubuntu bugs no one know what happen with mousse cursor u should change your nick to albert einstein u are the best man tnx very much i updated driver in <IP_ADDRESS> pae and everything is working fine
[19:51] <jcristau> i915 should be loaded automatically, not from /etc/modules
[19:52] <Sarvatt> jcristau: its loading agp then drm then intel_agp then i915 for him and intel_agp needs to be loaded before, trying to get this commit in the lucid kernel because alot of people are having this problem  - http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux-2.6.git;a=commit;h=1f7a6e372e9cb4d749f34c0738d832e6cadb4071
[19:52] <BenHoltz> Sarvatt: that is done. i'll give it a spin
[19:53] <BenHoltz> Sarvatt: what do you need me to do now?
[19:54] <Sarvatt> no worries Sioux-33, best to file a bug when you have problems like that because we really need to see logs :D
[19:54] <jcristau> Sarvatt: right, i'm just saying drm and i915 don't need to be there
[19:54] <Sarvatt> well reboot and see if its any different, thats just one issue i noticed you having still checking over your logs
[19:55] <jcristau> (the debian kernel has all agp drivers builtin now for that sort of reason)
[19:55] <Sarvatt> not having any luck convincing the kernel guys of that here :D
[19:56] <Sarvatt> gpu modules arent even getting put into the initrd at the moment, boot looks so ugly
[19:56] <jcristau> *shrug* gpu modules don't belong in the initrd
[19:57] <BenHoltz> Sarvatt: still not working on the TV, but it loads on the dell monitor.
[19:57] <BenHoltz> still
[19:59] <Sarvatt> BenHoltz: can you install pastebinit and dmesg | pastebinit now?
[20:00] <BenHoltz> Sarvatt: sorry kinda a noob with the commands...
[20:01] <Sarvatt> sudo apt-get install pastebinit && dmesg | pastebinit
[20:01] <Sarvatt> paste that into a terminal
[20:01] <Sarvatt> it'll give you a link to paste here
[20:02] <BenHoltz> sudo apt-get install pastebinit && dmesg | pastebinit  ok 1 sec
[20:02] <Sarvatt> do you have compiz enabled BenHoltz? does it work if you disable compiz?
[20:03] <BenHoltz> i belive it is enabled, i'll try disabling
[20:03] <benholtz_broken_> http://pastebin.com/NJjieabs
[20:05] <BenHoltz> still not working with compiz disabled.
[20:06] <BenHoltz> ok so here's my feeling, i think its starting in a resolution/refresh rate my tv doesnt like...
[20:06] <Sarvatt> oh its out of sync during boot even, sorry
[20:07] <BenHoltz> i just have no clue how to fix
[20:07] <BenHoltz> yes
[20:07] <BenHoltz> i should have been more clear. ;)
[20:09] <BenHoltz> when i start it with my monitor plugged in, then change the cords to have the tv plugged in it seems to now work, but when i have it start with the tv and plug it into the monitor it is waay huge on the monitor.
[20:09] <Sarvatt> hmm what drm debug level is for mode set logging..
[20:09] <BenHoltz> ??
[20:10] <jcristau> drm.debug=6 should work iirc
[20:11] <Sarvatt> BenHoltz: with the connector setup that is being screwy for you, try holding shift while booting, scrolling down to where you see quiet splash written and add drm.debug=0x04 to it, then do the dmesg | pastebinit again
[20:12] <BenHoltz> ok 1 sec
[20:13] <Sarvatt> or drm.debug=0x06 even, sorry :D
[20:14] <BenHoltz> no dice with holding shift it just reboots just past grub
[20:14] <Sarvatt> 0x06 is DRM_DEBUG_KMS + DRM_DEBUG_DRIVER, driver has hotplug events but i think that might spam too much from the other things
[20:14] <BenHoltz> i'm just in a loop when i hold shift
[20:15] <Sarvatt> oh? well do a sudo nano /etc/default/grub and add the drm.debug=0x06 after quiet splash and sudo update-grub after, just remove it after all of this
[20:15] <BenHoltz> ok 1 min
[20:15] <BenHoltz> i could press esc to edit the grub?
[20:16] <Sarvatt> if that works :D
[20:16] <Sarvatt> you using grub1 or something?
[20:16] <BenHoltz> i'll try that 1 sec
[20:16] <BenHoltz> ??? how do i know?
[20:16] <Sarvatt> how did you edit grub before like you said in the bug? just do it the same way
[20:17] <BenHoltz> i pressed esc then e ten edited that way
[20:17] <Sarvatt> yep just do that then
[20:17] <BenHoltz> add it to the kernel line?
[20:18] <Sarvatt> yep
[20:18] <BenHoltz> ok started up with fail.
[20:19] <BenHoltz> now going to go and get the patebin brb
[20:19] <Sarvatt> wonder why mode sets dont show up in dmesg anymore, could swear they used to
[20:21] <benholtz_broken> http://pastebin.com/WmwCinWy
[20:22] <Sarvatt> it didnt take your extra option
[20:22] <Sarvatt> no drm.debug there
[20:23] <BenHoltz> hmmm... i'll try adding it to the .cfg
[20:26] <BenHoltz> Sarvatt: i dont see the quiet flash in /etc/default/grub
[20:26] <BenHoltz> splash*
[20:26] <BenHoltz> wait i see it now
[20:28] <BenHoltz> trying again
[20:32] <BenHoltz> Sarvatt: upon looking in grub before its loading it doesnt loook like it took, pastebining now
[20:33] <benholtz_broken> http://pastebin.com/B87g47Qr
[20:37] <BenHoltz> ok i think i might have done it right... lets see here. >_<
[20:39] <Sarvatt> nope :(
[20:39] <BenHoltz> how long does the dmesg stay?
[20:43] <BenHoltz> is it persistant through reboots?
[20:47] <benholtz_broken> Sarvatt: try this one http://pastebin.com/vpyHk10K
[20:49] <BenHoltz> it has stuff that was not befoee.. ;)
[21:01] <BenHoltz> Sarvatt: any clues?
[21:04] <BenHoltz> jcristau: any ideas?
[21:06]  * BenHoltz points gun @ self
[21:11] <BenHoltz> can someone help me?
[21:27] <BenHoltz> ok, i give up....
[21:31] <BUGabundo> :(
[22:15] <Sarvatt> none of those dmesg's had drm.debug set.. couldn't sit here all night :(
[22:27] <Sarvatt> ok so we need some *serious* testing of this xorg.conf.d stuff, tjaalton have you documented every change you've done somewhere? we should set up a wiki page about it to collaborate
[22:32]  * Sarvatt tries to break things
[22:55] <Sarvatt> ok xorg.conf.d stuff installed on 5 machines, lets see how this works out.
[23:21] <Sarvatt> tjaalton: 10-synaptics.conf isn't getting installed, xorg.conf.d is located at /usr/lib/X11/, and the old udev rules are still getting installed in those packages and not removed on upgrade
[23:22] <Sarvatt> only problems I've noticed so far
[23:23] <jcristau> 2 is not a "problem"
[23:23] <Sarvatt> yeah not really, I just thought it was supposed to be in /etc
[23:26] <Sarvatt> other than that it's working like a charm. need to fix up the wacom udev rules and try that out
[23:26] <jcristau> i think it's a bad idea to have the default input config in /etc
[23:26] <jcristau> people can still tweak stuff in xorg.conf
[23:29] <Sarvatt> would be nice if you could add snippets in /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/ as well as the stock ones in /usr/lib/X11
[23:29] <jcristau> that needs more code.
[23:29] <jcristau> but, yes.
[23:29] <Sarvatt> this is a *heck* of a lot better than asking people to do udev rules though
[23:30] <Sarvatt> evtouch probably actually works now! :D
[23:30] <jcristau> that's why i'm telling people to use the gnome dialogs instead, not udev rules.
[23:43] <Sarvatt> if we do pick this up i'll volunteer to go through and translate a ton of old fdi stuff into snippets
[23:44] <jcristau> sigh.  you're shipping a ton of fdi stuff for x config?
[23:47] <Sarvatt> more like I'm trying to be helpful in any way I can, if its not wanted no sweat off my back :)
[23:48] <jcristau> heh ok


[06:21] <Guest22> Hi all. My google-fu isn't up to the task this morning trying to find out if Kubuntu 21.04 comes with snaps enabled out of the box like Ubuntu?
[06:25] <alkisg> Guest22: afaik yes, although with no snaps installed
[06:25] <alkisg> So `snap list` would run, and show 0 packages
[06:26] <alkisg> (I purge snap immediately after every installation so I'm not sure about it though :))
[06:32] <Guest22> Thanks for the answer, much appreciated.
[13:36] <BluesKaj> Hi folks


[00:52] <blizzkid> what's the naming convention for different Distributions? I mean I have cwibber-0.1 for karmic, should I use cwibber-0.1-jaunty or another form?
[00:53] <lifeless> if the package is the same just copy the source to the other ppa and it will build
[00:54] <blizzkid> lifeless: the package is the same, but in debian/changelog I had karmic, so it only built for karmic
[00:55] <wgrant> lifeless: That doesn't work if you want multiple series in the one PPA...
[00:55] <wgrant> blizzkid: I normally use X.Y.Z-0ppa1 for karmic, X.Y.Z-0ppa1~jaunty1, etc.
[00:55] <lifeless> wgrant: oh
[00:55] <lifeless> so when is the multitarget coming active
[00:56] <wgrant> It's difficult.
[00:56] <wgrant> The semantics of it are very unclear.
[00:57] <blizzkid> wgrant: ok I'll try that approach, but will my source.list lines then still be "deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/mcielen/ppa/ubuntu karmic main" or will they autmotically change?
[00:57] <lifeless> ugh, 90% of http://launchpadlibrarian.net/30994534/buildlog_ubuntu-karmic-i386.subunit_0.0.2%7Ebzr78-0ubuntu3_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz is 'reading database'
[00:58] <wgrant> lifeless: Yes. karmic's dpkg sucks like that.
[00:58] <wgrant> blizzkid: What do you mean? If you want karmic, that's right.
[00:58]  * wgrant thwacks pkg-create-dbgsym a few times.
[00:59] <blizzkid> wgrant: when you look at my ppa https://edge.launchpad.net/~mcielen/+archive/ppa it gives you the line I gave, but now when I upload jaunty and intrepid to that ppa, will it change those lines?
[00:59] <lifeless> wgrant: have you run into '/usr/bin/install: will not overwrite just-created `/build/buildd/subunit-0.0.2~bzr78/debian/tmp/usr/bin/subunit2gtk' with `filters/subunit2gtk'
[00:59] <lifeless> '
[01:00] <wgrant> blizzkid: It will just add extra options to select jaunty or intrepid.
[01:00] <wgrant> blizzkid: The karmic one will not chnage.
[01:00] <wgrant> lifeless: I haven't, but I can guess what it means.
[01:01] <blizzkid> hmmz, I'll check what it does
[01:01] <wgrant> blizzkid: eg. look at https://launchpad.net/~wgrant/+archive/ppa
[01:02] <lifeless> wgrant: I can guess too, but AFAICT it means 'dh7 is borked', so far.
[01:02] <wgrant> lifeless: Sounds more like your .install file is contradicting itself.
[01:02] <blizzkid> I see you have "select sources.list entries", so I guess these get created?
[01:03] <wgrant> blizzkid: Right. There's an option for any series that's active in the PPA.
[01:03] <lifeless> wgrant:
[01:03] <lifeless> :!ls debian/*install
[01:03] <lifeless> debian/python-subunit.install  debian/subunit.install
[01:03] <lifeless> :!cat debian/*install
[01:03] <lifeless> usr/lib/python*
[01:03] <lifeless> usr/bin
[01:03] <lifeless> wgrant: e.g., 'no'.
[01:03] <blizzkid> hmmz, I must still be doing something wrong
[01:04] <wgrant> blizzkid: Why?
[01:04] <wgrant> lifeless: Intriguing. I've not used dh7 much.
[01:04] <wgrant> Yay, PPA debug symbol extraction working.
[01:04] <blizzkid> wgrant: I created 3 folders now, cwibber-0.1 cwibber-0.1~intrepid and cwibber-0.1~jaunty
[01:04] <blizzkid> content is the same
[01:05] <blizzkid> but when I dpkg-buildpackage in jaunty and then in intrepid the second overwrites the first
[01:05] <wgrant> blizzkid: The version is controlled by the changelog, not the directory name.
[01:06] <blizzkid> wgrant: so instead of cwibber (0.1-1) it should read cwibber (0.1-1~jaunty) ?
[01:07] <wgrant> blizzkid: Except that the '-1' bit there is a lie, yes.
[01:07] <lifeless> wgrant: upstream breakage
[01:07] <wgrant> lifeless: Aren't *you* upstream?
[01:07] <lifeless> yes
[01:08] <lifeless> I'm allowed to break things too :P
[01:08] <blizzkid> wgrant: what do you mean with a lie? should I remove that -1?
[01:08] <wgrant> blizzkid: It's not in Debian, so it should be -0. Some people use -0ubuntu1~ppa1, or -0ubuntu1~username1, or -0username1, or -0ppa1, or...
[01:08] <blizzkid> oh, I see
[01:09] <blizzkid> and can I re-upload my karmic version with just that change? Or do I have to delete my packages first?
[01:10] <wgrant> blizzkid: Now, that is awkward. Because you've used 0.1-1, you can never upload anything less than that to karmic.
[01:10] <lifeless> blizzkid: do you mean 'karmic official' or 'karmic in my ppa'
[01:10] <lifeless> wgrant: question all assumptions.
[01:11] <blizzkid> ppa
[01:11] <wgrant> lifeless: Indeed.
[01:12] <blizzkid> I requested deletion
[01:12] <lifeless> wgrant: in the fuckage here.
[01:12] <lifeless> it was bzr (again, I'm upstream :P) doing a silent bad merg.e
[01:12] <lifeless> so it got duplicated lines
[01:13] <wgrant> lifeless: Aha. Lovely.
[01:13] <lifeless> subunit2gtk was being installed twice
[01:13] <wgrant> blizzkid: That won't help.
[01:13] <blizzkid> wgrant: why not?
[01:13] <wgrant> blizzkid: Because the version will be remembered.
[01:13] <lifeless> when delete doesn't mean delete
[01:14] <wgrant> It's delete in an archive context. It deletes it from the on-disk archive.
[01:15] <blizzkid> hmmz
[01:16] <blizzkid> wgrant: cwibber 0.1-0ppa1 (Accepted) so it worked (that's the changed one for karmic)
[01:19] <wgrant> blizzkid: That can't always be relied upon to work.
[01:19] <wgrant> But it looks like it has this time.
[01:19] <lifeless> \o/ success
[01:19] <blizzkid> good enough for me for now ;)
[01:21] <blizzkid> yay, there all there now
[01:22] <blizzkid> if you guys want to try it out and comment, be my guest :)
[01:22] <lifeless> I actually meant my package :P
[01:27] <lifeless> wgrant: so you're working on ppas
[01:27] <wgrant> lifeless: I am.
[01:27] <lifeless> wgrant: are you planning to tackle the 'web page says published, apt-get update says fail' skew?
[01:28] <wgrant> lifeless: There shouldn't be more than a few seconds of that (except in primary/partner)
[01:28] <lifeless> wgrant: just had 5 minutes
[01:28] <wgrant> lifeless: Or do you mean source publishing status vs. binary publishing status?
[01:28] <wgrant> Binary status is the far right column.
[01:28] <lifeless> So the web page can claim that [say] amd64 is published
[01:28] <lifeless> but apt-get doesn't see it
[01:29] <wgrant> How does it say that it's published?
[01:29] <lifeless> expand the table, list of builds with green ticks
[01:29] <lifeless> and ones that aren't published it adds '- not published' [or something like that]
[01:29] <lifeless> it follows that those with green ticks and without the warning are published and downloadable
[01:29] <wgrant> lifeless: Right. So this appears with a green tick but without the '- not yet published' warning?
[01:29] <wgrant> That seems odd.
[01:30] <wgrant> They should be, within seconds of that being set.
[01:30] <blizzkid> anyone has any suggestions for a better name than cwibber btw?
[01:31] <lifeless> charles wanted indigo bracers but expectation rejected?
[01:32] <wgrant> Plausible.
[01:41] <wgrant> I do wish that pkg-create-dbgsym would avoid failing in obscure ways, unrelated to what I'm doing to it.
[01:42] <lifeless> you're getting auto debug debs for ppas
[01:42] <wgrant> Yes.
[01:42] <wgrant> And all my changes work.
[01:42] <wgrant> But it fails for other reasons.
[01:43] <wgrant> It did in my previous Soyuz setup too, but started working after a while.
[01:43] <lifeless> Yak Shave.
[01:43] <blizzkid> anyway, I'm off to bed
[02:45] <wgrant> Hrmph. It the umask being set to 077, which I traced back to twisted, and indeed overriding it in twisted works. But why, then, does this not happen on the real buildds? Hmmmmm.
[02:50] <lifeless> root?
[02:51] <wgrant> lifeless: What do you mean?
[02:51] <lifeless> is there a difference in the account running the code on the real buildds
[02:52] <wgrant> Ah, right. I don't know, but I think they should be set up similarly (the package does all that).
[02:52] <wgrant> (the 'buildd' user runs the daemon, which then sudos to do stuff)
[04:07] <lifeless> Success bzrlib.tests.blackbox.test_log.TestLogMerges.test_merges_are_indented_by_level
[04:07] <lifeless> Success bzrlib.tests.blackbox.test_log.TestLogMerges.test_merges_partial_range
[04:07] <lifeless> Running [ 2% 387 test(s) ] Current test: None
[04:07] <lifeless>     *
[04:07] <lifeless> wgrant: ^ new pqm output coming soon :)
[04:08] <wgrant> lifeless: Not bad.
[04:09] <lifeless> by which you mean bloody brilliant.
[04:09] <lifeless> :)
[04:09] <wgrant> Only if it works for buildbot too.
[04:12] <wgrant> Wow, the chromium-daily PPA is rather massive.
[04:13] <lifeless> http://buildbot.net/trac/ticket/610
[04:14] <wgrant> OK, bloody brilliant, then!
[04:16] <lifeless> its not implemented yet; but they are aware of it, and its a matter of deciding what you want the UI to look like rather than anything else
[04:21] <lifeless> and pushed
[04:23] <wgrant> lifeless: I'm amused that PQM isn't self-hosting.
[04:25] <lifeless> wgrant: its a PITA
[04:26] <lifeless> I've taken some steps towards that yesterday and today with the improvements to its dependency chain
[04:26] <lifeless> the problem is that it wasn't TDD'd up, the core is still only integration tested, and not comprehensively at that.
[04:26] <spiv> lifeless: shiny
[04:27] <lifeless> spiv: \o/
[04:28] <idnar> "This site is running pre-release code. Please report all bugs."
[04:28] <idnar> heh
[04:29] <idnar> that's ironic
[04:30] <lifeless> and a bly
[04:30] <wgrant> There are threeish bugs on that already.
[04:30] <wgrant> And it's going to be replaced soon.
[04:32] <lifeless> Success bzrlib.tests.per_branch.test_branch.TestBranch.test_revision_ids_are_utf8(RemoteBranchFormat-default)
[04:32]  * micahg was just going to report the same thing :)
[04:32] <lifeless> Running [ 7% 1437 test(s) 4 failure(s) 5 errors(s) ] Current test: bzrlib.tests.per_branch.test_branch.TestBranch.test_revision_ids_are_utf8(RemoteBranchFormat-v2)
[04:32] <lifeless> right, all stuff tested, pushed and blocked.
[04:33] <lifeless> s/blocked/blogged
[04:40] <lifeless> and RT ticket sent too.
[04:52] <lifeless> cool
[04:52] <lifeless> http://slork.stanford.edu/
[06:18] <kamalnandan> on this page:
[06:18] <kamalnandan> https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA/InstallingSoftware
[06:18] <kamalnandan> whats the meaning of "Step 1: Copy the first line from the apt sources.list entries section of the PPA overview page. For example:"
[06:19] <kamalnandan> infact..i am new to lanchpad as well as packaging..
[06:19] <kamalnandan> and i have just registered my openPGP keys with launchpad..
[06:19] <wgrant> kamalnandan: I answered precisely this question when you asked a week ago. Do you need more explanation?
[06:21] <wgrant> kamalnandan: You might have better luck looking at the instructions on the page for the PPA you want to install from.
[06:21] <kamalnandan> wgrant: thanks for response..infact..i had got stuck with the key creation..the earlier one was lost somewhere..so i created again and registered today..ok..let me check the last week's log(infact i work on this project only on weekends, so tend to forget...:-)..sorry for that)
[06:22] <wgrant> < wgrant> kamalnandan: The two 'deb' and 'deb-src' lines in a box on a page like https://edge.launchpad.net/~wgrant/+archive/ppa
[06:24] <kamalnandan> wgrant: thanks for this..i will just go thru this..and probably will ask more questions..:-)
[06:24] <wgrant> kamalnandan: Sure.
[06:29] <kamalnandan> wgrant: well...but i havnt uploaded any package yet..i do have an example (hello world) package on my local machine...do i need to upload that first? if yes...do i need to go thru the further pages of the launchpad packaging tutorial?(https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA/InstallingSoftware)
[06:30] <kamalnandan> or lets say..why not i should try to install your experimantal package that is lying in your PPA??
[06:31] <kamalnandan> wgrant: does it sound good?
[06:32] <kamalnandan> just for learning and experimental purposes?
[06:32] <kamalnandan> just for learning and experimental purposes..
[06:34] <spiv> kamalnandan: well, it does seem a bit hard to follow an "Install Software" tutorial without some software to install.
[06:35] <spiv> So sure, if you want to learn/practice doing that, I'd find some software to install.
[06:37] <kamalnandan> spiv: thanks for that...I will appreciate that ...i am in learning phase and i want to install some example package and learn..
[06:47] <kamalnandan> while adding the experimental package from Wgrant's page i get the following error:
[06:49] <kamalnandan> "The following keys couldn't be verified because the public key is not available<some signature>"
[06:49] <wgrant> kamalnandan: Exactly which PPA were you attempting to use, and how were you trying to add it?
[06:51] <kamalnandan> wgrant: the experimental PPA on your page(https://edge.launchpad.net/~wgrant/+archive/experimental)..and i followed the same procedure as mentioned on this page(https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA/InstallingSoftware)
[06:52] <wgrant> kamalnandan: I might remind you to read the description of that PPA.
[06:52] <wgrant> And try the '(Read about installing)' installing link on my PPA page, rather than the one on the help wiki.
[06:55] <kamalnandan> wgrant: yes..thats what I am going thru...though i dont see any other description on your PPA page apart from the comment ("This site is running pre-release code. Please report all bugs.")
[06:56] <wgrant> "Dangerous stuff that you probably really, really don't want in your sources.list."
[06:56] <wgrant> At the top.
[06:59] <kamalnandan> wgrant: Oops...i had just moved away from that page and thats why i want able to see that description..:-(..
[07:00] <kamalnandan> however, can you plz direct me to some simple package which i can install and see how it works..
[07:01] <wgrant> kamalnandan: There's some stuff in https://edge.launchpad.net/~wgrant/+archive/ppa that isn't very likely to blow up in your face.
[07:02] <kamalnandan> wgrant: thanks..i will try this one..:-)
[07:12] <kamalnandan> need to go somewhere right now..have been able to do "sudo apt-key adv --keyserver keyserver.ubuntu.com --recv-keys "
[07:12] <kamalnandan> and also "sudo apt-get update"
[07:12] <kamalnandan> will work further ahead in the evening..
[07:13] <kamalnandan> thanks wgrant for your help..
[07:13] <kamalnandan> bye for now..
[07:32] <realbadapple> hey whats up with the server timing out constantly?
[07:33] <wgrant> realbadapple: Which server? bazaar.launchpad.net?
[07:34] <realbadapple> launchpad in general
[07:34] <realbadapple> I just signed up and it keeps timing out
[07:34] <wgrant> Any particular URLs?
[07:34] <realbadapple> I was filling a bug report for gnome-do
[07:35] <realbadapple> and confirming my user name and pass word for registration
[07:35] <wgrant> Ah. That can be a bit of a problem at the moment for some projects with lots of bugs. To work around that immediately, use a shorter summary to start with. You can correct it on the second page.
[07:35] <wgrant> That confirmation one I haven't heard of before.
[07:36] <realbadapple> pretty much any link on launchpad times out
[07:36]  * wgrant tries.
[07:36] <realbadapple> does not seem to be project specific
[07:37] <realbadapple> just thought I'd let you guys know so it can be look into and fixed
[07:37] <wgrant> realbadapple: What kind of error page was it?
[07:37] <realbadapple> I know you guys are doing some beta testing right now
[07:37] <wgrant> "Please try again", or "Timeout error" with an OOPS number?
[07:38] <wgrant> A.
[07:38] <wgrant> +h
[07:38] <wgrant> Indeed, there is a problem with one of the servers.
[07:39] <realbadapple> the page that I get reads 'Sorry, there was a problem connecting to launchpad server. \n try reloading this page in a minute or two. if the problem persists ... ' it says to tell you guys here
[07:39] <wgrant> Yep, that basically means that a server has become angry and run away.
[07:40] <realbadapple> oh I just notice that you did find out that one of the servers is disgruntled
[07:41] <realbadapple> hey do you guys support svn or cvs or just bazaar?
[07:42] <wgrant> Only bzr natively, but svn, cvs and git can be imported.
[07:43] <realbadapple> ya thats what I thought
[07:45] <realbadapple> do you now of any Eclipse plugins for bazaar support?
[07:46] <wgrant> realbadapple: There's bzr-eclipse, but I've no idea how good it is. I'm not a fan of IDEs.
[07:47] <realbadapple> thanks and is that the official name?
[09:51] <Ddorda> hello. i want to upload my .deb to PPA, is it possible or i must upload the source code?
[09:53] <wgrant> Ddorda: You must upload a source package (.dsc). While that may technically just contain binaries that are put into the .deb at build-time, that would likely be in violation of the PPA Terms of Use.
[09:55] <wgrant> Ddorda: Have you read https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA and associated pages?
[09:56] <Ddorda> indeed
[09:57] <wgrant> Ddorda: Any particular reason you want to upload a binary package directly?
[09:58] <Ddorda> i thought "source" meant to the source code of the project. the problem is that i have setting in the deb, so it will ask for some packages to be installed
[09:58] <Ddorda> i guess the .dsc has it too, right?
[09:58] <lfaraone> In bug 419478 , Jelmer recommended that my import be "nuked and retried". How do I go about doing that?
[09:59] <wgrant> lfaraone: Ask a question at https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad-code/+addquestion.
[09:59] <wgrant> Ddorda: There should be documentation linked from that page about how to create source packages.
[09:59] <wgrant> Ddorda: Everything that you can do in a binary package is possible to do in a source package.
[09:59] <wgrant> Ddorda: It's normally easier, too.
[10:00] <Ddorda> i see, i will search for the documentation
[10:06] <Ddorda> wgrant: thanks for your help
[10:06] <wgrant> Ddorda: np
[10:06] <Ddorda> bye :D
[10:06] <lifeless> lfaraone: open a question on answers.launchpad.net/launchpad-code
[15:58] <MTeck> What causes point versions?
[15:58] <MTeck> Like 105.1.1
[16:44] <natureshadow> hi there!
[16:45] <natureshadow> I'm somehow stuck - I have a package in my PPA for karmic and want it to be also available for jaunty. How do I approach that?
[16:46] <natureshadow> I know I can upload for jaunty, then increase the revision and upload for karmic
[16:46] <natureshadow> But what if the package is already uploaded for karmic?
[17:14] <Yop69> Hi everybody
[17:18] <Yop69> I would help to translate Amarok but I don't knwo How I do that.... can you help me please ?
[17:20] <Yop69> nobody here ??? :'(
[17:20] <mzz> well, I'm not really here, and I have no idea about how to translate things.
[17:23] <Yop69> thx mzz, another one ? :D
[17:25] <natureshadow> Yop69: If someone is here and has an answer to your question, (s)he will most likely say so
[17:25] <Yop69> natureshadow : oki !
[17:26] <natureshadow> Yop69: Did you look for information on amaroks project website?
[17:26] <Yop69> euh not yet
[17:29] <natureshadow> Yop69: Then that'd probably be a place to start
[17:29] <Yop69> hm i don't understand
[17:30] <Yop69> :/
[17:36] <Yop69> Oki i sent a email to the translate team :)
[17:44] <natureshadow> Yop69: http://amarok.kde.org/wiki/Support_amaroK
[17:44] <natureshadow> Yop69: third paragraph
[17:45] <Yop69> natureshadow : yes, very nice ;)


[05:02] <cpyarger> Who can help a guy with integration of Gstreamer into an app in the ubuntu SDK?
[05:02] <cpyarger> I cant figure out why it can't find the qtgstreamer, or or gstreamer libraries
[05:26] <valorie> cpyarger: how did you install gst and/or the libraries?
[05:27] <valorie> oops, so you are working on an app -- are you using cmake, qmake, or what?
[05:27] <cpyarger> valorie:  initially with apt recently redid it using the git for qtgstreamer
[05:27] <cpyarger> I believe its using cmake but let me check
[05:27] <valorie> I'm thinking that there is a chan where you are more likely to get help
[05:28] <valorie> probably #ubuntu-devel
[05:28] <valorie> no one here hacks on the Ubuntu SDK that I recall
[05:28] <valorie> there is also #cmake
[05:29] <cpyarger> ok
[05:31] <valorie> also it's 5:30 or so in Europe where most of the kubuntu devels live
[05:31] <valorie> in the am
[05:31] <cpyarger> valorie: Thank you, if you want to take a closer look at the project, the code is currently here https://github.com/cpyarger/kast
[05:32] <valorie> interesting, thanks
[05:33] <cpyarger> Thanks for the advice, Maybe in a few hours I will get somewhere, I figured out the includes issue, now I am having a few more lol
[09:09] <soee> ping
[09:24] <soee> with todays updates kwon to 5.1.95 window decorations are back :)
[09:24] <soee> *kwin
[09:42] <lordievader> Good morning.
[11:10] <sheytan> sitter: hey! Any iso with plasma 5.2 for me yet?
[11:20] <soee> :)
[11:21] <soee> sheytan: what exactly are you looking for ?
[11:21] <sheytan> kubuntu build with plasma 5.2
[11:21] <sheytan> to test ;)
[11:22] <soee> sheytan: try daily build, http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/daily-live/current/ Plasma 5.2 beta is in archive now, last packages were added last night
[11:22] <soee> im running it atm without bigger problems
[11:23] <sheytan> soee: but they are from 14th jan, so they don't have plasma 5.2 yet
[11:23] <sheytan> or am i wrong?
[11:23] <soee> ah we have 17th already :D
[11:23] <sheytan> sure we do :D
[11:25] <soee> ok than, im not sure abut current images, but you can download the one from 14 and just dist-upgrade
[11:26] <sheytan> i'll wait ;)
[11:26] <sheytan> but thank you, sir :D
[11:51] <soee> someone on Plasma 5.2 beta and QT 5.4 ?
[12:20] <BluesKaj> 'Morning all
[12:46] <soee> hiho BluesKaj
[12:46] <BluesKaj> hey soee
[16:48] <soee> woho nvidia 346.35 released
[16:48] <soee> sadly propriety drivers does not work now at all with current kernel and nvidia-prime
[16:48] <soee> *dont
[18:12] <mparillo> Whoo-Hoo. Vivid is now usable for me in a VM: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/open-vm-tools/+bug/1362631 The Plasma Next desktop now scales up to the full display of the virtual window. Anybody have an idea of why the wallpaper does not? Are more Plasma 5.2 beta updates coming, or should I open another bug report? Against bugs.kde.org, I suppose?
[18:15] <Riddell> mparillo: I'm not sure what you're describing, maybe a screenshot would help, but there's no more beta's due so worth filing the bug
[18:16] <Riddell> bug 1362631
[18:20] <soee> mparillo: running 5.2beta ? can you check one thing for me ?
[18:20] <Riddell> hi Don
[18:22] <mparilloVividOnV> Riddell:  http://imgur.com/MeW2tGN I set the wallpaper to tile to see if it improved things, but it did not. P.S.  I noticed Quassel was replaced by konversation. Is that locked in for 15.04?
[18:23] <Riddell> now that looks broken
[18:23] <Riddell> mparilloVividOnV: it's not locked in no, but konversation is a kde project so that's our natural preference
[18:25] <ovidiu-florin> mparilloVividOnV: multi screen?
[18:25] <ovidiu-florin> multiple monitors?
[18:25] <mparillo> soee: I can try. Running back upstairs to my work computer.
[18:26] <soee> mparillo: simple thing, i think that in System Settings -> Display & Monitor there were 3 subsections to configure now i see only 2, do you have 2 also ?
[18:27] <mparillo> ovidiu-florin: Yes, my practice is to run Win7 on my work laptop, connect an external monitor, and run Kubuntu in a VMware Player VM on that. In that environment, Fedora 20 was and 21 is a dog, especially with rekonq, and Netrunner was not much better.
[18:27] <mparillo> soee: checking ...
[18:29] <ovidiu-florin> mparillo:  so you're using multiple monitors on the VM?
[18:29] <mparilloVividOnV> soee: Two sub-sections. Display configuration and Compositor
[18:29] <soee> mparilloVividOnV: ok, thank you
[18:30] <soee> mparilloVividOnV: also one bug to confirm if you can https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7REkihYu3A8
[18:30] <mparilloVividOnV> ovidiu-florin: No, sorry I was unclear, a maximized window on a single physical monitor. There is a button on VMware Player that maximizes it and removes what I think are called decorations. Title bar, scroll bar, etc.
[18:32] <mparillo_> D'oh. Youtube crashed Firefox. Will go back downstairs to look at the video on Chrome.
[18:32] <soee_> uhm i was disconnected
[18:33] <ovidiu-florin> the Desktop layout module and the screen resolution get updated separately
[18:33] <ovidiu-florin> so you most likely need to restart it to read teh new resolution
[18:34] <ovidiu-florin> this usually happens with plasma (not 5) when working withmultiple monitors
[18:38] <mparillo_> I watched the youtube video. It was unclear to me whether he was trying to click on the hamburger or move it. In my case, it starts at the upper left, and I can move it to any edge of my wallpaper, but not to any edge of my virtual desktop.
[18:39] <ovidiu-florin> mparillo_:  that's the Desktop module or plasma
[18:39] <ovidiu-florin> it didn't get the new resolution
[18:39] <ovidiu-florin> restart it
[18:39] <ahoneybun> Riddell, if you need a new banner for the 15.04 release just let me know :)
[18:40] <mparillo_> ovidiu-florin: My small wallpaper didn't get the new resolution?
[18:40] <ovidiu-florin> the wallpaper is just a background of the Desktop module of Plasma
[18:41] <ovidiu-florin> think of it this way: your screen is the size of your wallpaper, then you add another screen next to it
[18:41] <ovidiu-florin> plasma get's notified about it
[18:41] <ovidiu-florin> but sometimes, the Dektop module fails to update
[18:41] <mparillo_> Ok. so I can certainly try to re-boot my VM, and will do that before opening any bugs.
[18:41] <ovidiu-florin> and to stretch to the next screen
[18:42] <ovidiu-florin> you can just log out and back in
[18:42] <ovidiu-florin> if that doesn't work, then reboot
[18:48] <Riddell> hi ahoneybun
[18:48] <Riddell> ahoneybun: ideally we'd move over to the new website for the 15.04 release
[18:49] <Riddell> ahoneybun: although that'll still need a new banner
[18:49] <ahoneybun> yea I'm just letting you know Riddell
[18:53] <ovidiu-florin> jose: are you around?
[18:54] <mparillo_> A complete start of the VM did not change the wallpaper scaling nor the ability to move the hamburger outside the wallpaper.
[18:56] <jose> ovidiu-florin: I am, what's up?
[18:56] <ovidiu-florin> have yu told anyone about our plan to rule the world?
[19:01] <ovidiu-florin> jose: ^
[19:01] <jose> ovidiu-florin: lol, not yet
[19:01] <jose> but the trello cards are created
[19:01] <ovidiu-florin> I guess their not in Kubuntu promotion, right?
[19:02] <ovidiu-florin> oh
[19:02] <ovidiu-florin> a new list in there
[19:02] <ovidiu-florin> nice
[19:04] <mparillo_> https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=342978
[19:04] <mparillo_> I assume no need for a Launchpad bug?
[19:04] <ovidiu-florin> no
[19:07] <soee> ergh, someone can reproduce: open dolphin add new entry to Places, reboot and the entry is gone
[19:08] <ovidiu-florin> mparillo: that's because Kwin knows about the new resolution and PLasma doesn't
[19:08] <ovidiu-florin> at  least not entirely
[19:09] <ovidiu-florin> mparillo_: please add steps to reproduce to the bug report
[19:11] <mparillo> ovidiu-florin: I do not think I took any steps at all.
[19:11] <ovidiu-florin> mparillo: just write exactly what you did to do that
[19:12] <ovidiu-florin> try to reproduce it
[19:12] <ovidiu-florin> from scratch
[19:12] <ovidiu-florin> it it's unreproduceble, how can someone debug it, in order to fix it
[19:12] <mparillo> All I did was maximize my screen.
[19:12] <ovidiu-florin> mparillo: mparillo_ please choose one nick and stick to it
[19:14] <mparillo> I will log off my Plasma 5 session
[19:44] <soee> Someone on Plasma 5.2 can check if double click on window decoration maximisez it ?
[19:45] <soee> s/maximisez/maximizes
[19:45] <soee> !s/maximisez/maximizes
[19:52] <yofel> firefox just got maximized here
[19:56] <Riddell> this new breeze window theme does look a lot like unity to me
[19:56] <yofel> now that you mention it..
[20:15] <soee> so probably something wrok here  with mine conf :/
[20:23] <mparillo> soee: Yes, Every app I could test (even Libre Office) seems to maximize when I double click on the window decoration (if that is the same thing as the title bar) in Plasma 5.
[20:24] <soee> mparillo: thank you. not sure why but it doesnt work for me, even though its configured
[20:24] <soee> anyay have to report nvidia-prime bug
[20:35] <soee> what kernel version do you have atm ?
[20:47] <mparillo> soee: me? Is that uname -a ?
[20:49] <cpyarger> A framework for bash scripting -- http://git.io/DV5eow
[21:36] <soee> gusy if someone can confirm, please update https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-prime/+bug/1412057


[21:08] <sadmac2> Keybuk: ping
[21:08] <Keybuk> evening
[21:08] <sadmac2> evening
[21:09] <sadmac2> Keybuk: when you said you weren't planning to start working on Upstart again until "Next Year," was that the next year that starts 2 weeks from now or the one 365 days away?
[21:10] <Keybuk> 2009
[21:10] <sadmac2> Keybuk: somewhere between the two then?
[21:11] <Keybuk> right
[21:12] <Keybuk> releasable version of 0.10 targeted for ~October next year
[21:12] <Keybuk> which pretty much aligns it with DeviceKit as well
[21:12] <sadmac2> nice
[21:13] <sadmac2> Keybuk: I think I'm going to re-prototype the state machine. I can do it in python (which you can read) or I can do it in C (which can not only be read, but serve as copy-pasta for the actual system).
[21:13] <Keybuk> being able to read it would be handy
[21:14] <Keybuk> I don't really want to have to learn ruby just so I can see what you're doing differently to me (if anything)
[21:14] <sadmac2> yes :)
[21:15] <sadmac2> ruby is fairly easy to read usually, but the state machine I wrote is kinda asshole-ish
[21:15] <sadmac2> it does scary things.
[21:15] <Keybuk> ruby is only easy to read if you know ruby ;)
[21:16] <sadmac2> plus in describing the state machine I actually ended up improving it, so it isn't quite an accurate example anyway
[21:16] <sadmac2> its a subset of what I described, but its missing some properties
[21:17] <sadmac2> (and it will actually be simpler to implement taking those ideas into account)
[22:11] <geiseri> is anyone here versed in upstart?  i am trying to migrate a inittab line to upstart and it flat out wont work.
[22:23] <geiseri> x:23:once:/bin/su root -l -c "/bin/bash --login -c startx >/dev/null 2>&1" <- this is the exact line
[22:28] <sadmac> geiseri: what do you have so far?
[22:29] <geiseri> one sec, let me copy it into pastebin
[22:31] <geiseri> http://paste.ubuntu.com/88079/
[22:31] <geiseri> it just seems to fail silently
[22:31] <geiseri> is there a place to look and debug it?
[22:32] <sadmac> geiseri: silent failure is often due to a syntax error.
[22:32] <sadmac> geiseri: I believe it will show up in /var/log/messages
[22:32] <geiseri> ah, okay let me check there
[22:34] <geiseri> what should i be looking for, i cant really see anything there
[22:35] <geiseri> does my syntax i pasted look remotely correct?
[22:36] <sadmac> geiseri: it looks about right
[22:37] <sadmac> geiseri: you can try init=/sbin/init -v on your kernel command line to get lots of noisy output
[22:37] <geiseri> sure, its an embedded box, so its a bit sluggish on startup :D
[22:38] <sadmac> heh
[22:41] <geiseri> that is interesting, i saw the ttys startup via the screen output, but my Xorg one was not started.
[22:42] <geiseri> do i have to set the mode on it to a specific value?
[22:43] <geiseri> oh wait syslog as something
[22:44] <mbiebl> Keybuk: what are your plans regarding upstart 0.5.x and the next ubuntu release?
[22:45] <geiseri> sadmac: here is the output http://paste.ubuntu.com/88088/
[22:45] <geiseri> it looks like it keeps starting and stopping Xorg because its exiting?
[22:47] <ion_> Redirect the script’s output to a log.
[22:48] <geiseri> just do a exec /bin/su detos -l -c "/usr/bin/startx" 2>&1 >> logfile?
[22:48] <ion_> Seems about right.
[22:48] <geiseri> k
[22:49] <ion_> The 2>&1 probably should be after the >>
[23:01] <geiseri> okay this is strange... it cannot seem to write the log file
[23:05] <geiseri> ah, typo :P
[23:09] <geiseri> http://paste.ubuntu.com/88110/ <- here is the log.. .its strange its identical to when i start it up manually except for line #48
[23:09] <geiseri> it looks like something it killing the server before it gets out of the gate
[23:10] <ion_> Did you try the entire script manually, including the su invocation?
[23:11] <geiseri> yes, it works
[23:11] <ion_> Try setting PATH manually in the script.
[23:12] <ion_> Hm. Was there a stanza for path in Upstart?
[23:12] <geiseri> did i miss that?
[23:14] <geiseri> i still think its strange that it starts but then exits right away... you think if it was a failed library or something it would scream.
[23:17] <ion_> Also try startx -- -verbose 10 -logverbose 10
[23:17] <ion_> (i pulled the 10 out of my ass)
[23:19] <geiseri> http://paste.ubuntu.com/88117/ <- okay this looks interesting...
[23:20] <geiseri> could not get file descriptor of the console?
[23:23] <ion_> Try adding ‘console owner’ to the job file.
[23:25] <geiseri> just at the top of the job file?
[23:25] <ion_> Yeah, at any line.
[23:25] <geiseri> okay testing it again :)
[23:26] <Keybuk> mbiebl: I don't think I have any
[23:27] <mbiebl> Keybuk: so no further "upstartification" of init scripts for jaunty?
[23:27] <mbiebl> What bits do you consider missing, for doing so?
[23:28] <Keybuk> mbiebl: indeed
[23:28] <Keybuk> well, the fact that upstart 0.5 doesn't work?
[23:28] <geiseri> ion_: okay this is really strange, i can startx via the console as the detos user, but i get the "X: user not authorized to run the X server, aborting." message
[23:30] <mbiebl> Keybuk: could you be more specific?
[23:30] <Keybuk> mbiebl: it doesn't solve the problems that need to be solved to move init scripts to upstart
[23:30] <Keybuk> it's still a pain in the arse to express when they should be running
[23:31] <Keybuk> and common problems are almost impossible without changes
[23:31] <mbiebl> Even if you started with a top-down approach?
[23:32] <mbiebl> I don't think services like smartd, hald etc, need a complex start dependency
[23:33] <mbiebl> i.e. rc2 could be implemented using native upstart jobs imo
[23:34] <Keybuk> hal needs to be started by d-bus activiation but only while dbus is running
[23:34] <Keybuk> (and brought up automatically)
[23:36] <geiseri> ion_: now if i set the Xwrapper.conf to allow anyone to start X it now works... why could that be?
[23:36] <ion_> I have no idea.
[23:36] <mbiebl> maybe hal was a bad example.
[23:36] <geiseri> ion_: what  was the console owner line suppose to do?
[23:37] <sadmac> mbiebl: there is a bit more that could be done with it, but why?
[23:37]  * geiseri wonders if he needs to run something like mingetty to get a console before X starts.
[23:37] <sadmac> mbiebl: its all going to have to be redone again once we fix the model
[23:37] <mbiebl> sadmac: service monitoring?
[23:37] <mbiebl> seeing, which service is running?
[23:37] <Keybuk> most init scripts have a "status" option
[23:38] <sadmac> mbiebl: its a pretty high cost to convert any large number of scripts
[23:38] <mbiebl> Keybuk: but that is a hack, imho
[23:38] <Keybuk> sure, but it works okish
[23:38] <Keybuk> I can spend my time doing useful work to make Ubuntu boot faster, and improve upstart
[23:38] <Keybuk> or I can spend it converting things to upstart now
[23:38] <mbiebl> sadmac: what would we have to change (for a service like smartd)?
[23:39] <mbiebl> do you have plans to completely change the config format?
[23:39] <sadmac> mbiebl: yes
[23:39] <mbiebl> oh
[23:39] <sadmac> mbiebl: the changes will make upstart semantically different. the config format won't even be expressing the same meaning
[23:40] <Keybuk> well, that depends
[23:40] <mbiebl> sadmac: is there a summary / roadmap, what the current plans are?
[23:40] <Keybuk> not yet
[23:41] <mbiebl> I'm quite surprised by what you say
[23:41] <sadmac> mbiebl: http://screwyouenterpriseedition.blogspot.com has some (still controvertial) details on things I've been thinking about (top 4 posts)
[23:41] <Keybuk> (you get an award if you can understand his blog posts
[23:41] <Keybuk>  lit. you get to explain them to the rest of us :p)
[23:41] <sadmac> Keybuk: take a look at the most recent of those. Events shouldn't have any surprises in store, but still.
[23:42] <mbiebl> ;-)
[23:42] <Keybuk> mbiebl: the summary of the change is actually quite simple
[23:42] <Keybuk> right now jobs are:
[23:42] <Keybuk>   start on <some event expression>
[23:42] <Keybuk>   stop on <some event expression>
[23:42] <Keybuk> this will change to:
[23:43] <Keybuk>   while <some state expression>
[23:43] <ion_> geiseri: It opens /dev/console instead of /dev/null as std{in,out,err} for the job and does a magic TIOCSCTTY ioctl (not sure if it’s needed here). :-)
[23:43] <Keybuk> a good, simple, example would be a dbus apache service
[23:43] <Keybuk>   start on started dbus and started apache
[23:43] <Keybuk>   stop on stopping dbus or stopping apache
[23:43] <Keybuk> vs.
[23:43] <Keybuk>   while dbus and apache
[23:43] <Keybuk> except, the big difference is that if you restart apache, your service will actually be restarted
[23:44] <Keybuk> with the start on/stop on model, your service would simply be stopped
[23:44] <geiseri> ion_: it looks like really what i need to do is edit the XWrapper.config file... its an embedded system with no ttys so it shouldnt be a problem.
[23:44] <mbiebl> hm, right, as you would be waiting for the dbus started event
[23:44] <Keybuk> exactly
[23:45] <mbiebl> so, the new mantra is "states" not events anymore
[23:46] <Keybuk> well
[23:46] <Keybuk> states are still based on events
[23:46] <Keybuk> you'll get states for jobs for free
[23:46] <Keybuk> and you can define states based off other states
[23:46] <Keybuk> or off events
[23:46] <Keybuk> you can combine them in jobs too
[23:46] <Keybuk>   on control-alt-delete
[23:46] <Keybuk>   while multi-user
[23:47] <Keybuk> --
[23:47] <Keybuk>   on battery-low
[23:47] <Keybuk>   while docked
[23:47] <Keybuk> etc.
[23:47] <Keybuk> jobs can't be started if their while clause is not true
[23:47] <mbiebl> any roadmap for this kind stuff?
[23:47] <Keybuk>   or if their while clause cannot be made to be true
[23:48] <Keybuk> the latter gives us dependency behaviour
[23:48] <Keybuk>   while apache and mysql
[23:48] <Keybuk> start foo
[23:48] <Keybuk> will start apache and mysql as well
[23:48] <geiseri> ion_: thanks for the help anyway.
[23:53] <sadmac> Keybuk: I think for the conf file format we should use a sort of python-style syntax
[23:53] <sadmac> foostate(arg1: %arg):
[23:53] <sadmac>      while bar
[23:53] <sadmac>      on baz
[23:54] <sadmac> Keybuk: this means we can do the break a state across files thing, and keeping states in one file only adds 1 line to the file
[23:54] <sadmac> Keybuk: so it pushes the decision to distro maintainers
[23:56] <Keybuk> but I don't want to break a state across files
[23:56] <sadmac> Keybuk: /you/ don't
[23:56] <Keybuk> that's the advantage of being the author :p
[23:56] <sadmac> Keybuk: and this doesn't hurt you much if you choose not to
[23:57] <Keybuk> it hurts compatibility between distributions
[23:57] <sadmac> there's no such thing
[23:57] <Keybuk> there should be
[23:57] <Keybuk> brb
[23:58] <Keybuk> distributions shouldn't *need* different upstart job files for the same service
[23:58] <Keybuk> upstream authors should feel confident in shipping them in their own tarballs
[23:58] <sadmac> but they'll have them anyway
[23:59] <sadmac> no two distributions even install apache in the same folder
[23:59] <sadmac> (and oh dear lord help us if anyone put it where upstream says you should)
[23:59] <Keybuk> I thought we all put it in /usr
[23:59] <Keybuk> with the config in /etc/apache2 ? :)
[23:59] <Keybuk> you'd be surprised how much commonality there actually is these days
[23:59] <sadmac> Keybuk: its in /etc/httpd here


[05:13] <locodir-user> How to register my Local Ubuntu team?
[23:24] <pleia2> skellat: btw, the LoCo Logo contest was never announced to loco-contacts
[23:25] <pleia2> a lot of folks in locos don't read planet because it's english only, so probably worth doing
[23:31] <skellat> pleia2: Thanks for the heads up
[23:34] <skellat> pleia2: Done


[17:57] <psusi> where should a bug be assigned to when it has to do with how the iso images are built rather than an individual software package?
[19:41] <saqib_> hi
[19:43] <saqib_> hi
[19:44] <saqib_> can any one help me
[19:44] <saqib_> my ubuntu 14.04 has many bugs


[01:19] <`mOOse`> any you guys run ident?
[02:37] <robertzaccour> where can i get 64 bit version of xubuntu?
[02:37] <`mOOse`> same place you get the 32 bit
[02:38] <robertzaccour> i don't see it on the download page
[02:42] <`mOOse`> so...did you find them yet?
[02:42] <robertzaccour> not yet
[02:43] <`mOOse`> @@
[02:43] <robertzaccour> maybe i should just install ubuntu 64 and do the pure xfce command
[02:43] <`mOOse`> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/9.10/release/
[02:43] <`mOOse`> no, don't do that
[02:43] <robertzaccour> thanks. is there one for 10.04?
[02:44] <robertzaccour> hey it says amd
[02:44] <robertzaccour> mine is intel
[02:44] <robertzaccour> will it still work?
[02:44] <`mOOse`> it says...core 2
[02:44] <`mOOse`> now I'm not gonna babysit you
[02:44] <robertzaccour> oh i see that thanks
[02:44] <`mOOse`> 10.4 - you want an experimental alpha distro?
[03:33] <zerothis> I'm having trouble with the at command. in a terminal running on the desktop, I typed "a 7:12" then <enter> then "ksnapshot" then <control>+<d>. 7:12 went by & nothing happened.
[04:37] <Legendre> Evening..
[04:38] <Legendre> or morning/afternoon as it were.. I have a simple question. Is there a (gui) util that shows disk usage, how much space is being used by various files / dirs etc?
[04:39] <Legendre> so like, when a partition fills up, you can figure out what's using all the space, target files for deletion / relocation and so forth?
[04:54] <nikolam> http://www.linuxrsp.ru/win-lin-soft/table-eng.html
[05:12] <robert__> are there any transparent themes for xfce?
[05:12] <robert__> that won't slow me down?
[05:29] <robert__> ?
[06:29] <Balsaq> all is well in the land of Xubuntu....
[06:32] <genii> For now.
[06:32] <Balsaq> good morning genii
[06:33]  * genii slides Balsaq a coffee
[06:34]  * Balsaq hides his negro modelo he has been nursing and accepts the warm beverage....
[06:37] <Balsaq> welcome to xubuntu titan_ark
[08:30] <titan_ark> Balsaq, sorry saw your message just now.
[08:49] <Balsaq> cold out there
[13:14] <kushalsejwal> hello everyone, what can I install as an alternative to PowerPoint or OOo Impress in Xubuntu?
[13:19] <pleia2> I just use Impress, but the KDE office suite also has "kpresenter"
[13:20] <pleia2> if you're looking to write a presentation, there are other options aside from doing it in one of these programs, I've used the html/css based "s5" system before
[13:20] <kushalsejwal> pleia2: me too use and love impress but I was installing Xubuntu on a system which has very less ram so thought if there is some lighter alternative like abiword
[13:20] <pleia2> unfortunately not
[13:22] <kushalsejwal> pleia2: yes you are right, I think I have to settle for OOo impress only
[13:23] <kushalsejwal> pleia2: will xubuntu 9.10 work fine on a system with 256 mb ram?
[13:24] <pleia2> kushalsejwal: 256 is the *minimum* requirement
[13:24] <pleia2> "Once installed, Xubuntu can run with starting from 192 (or even just 128) MB RAM, but it is strongly recommended to have at least 256 MB RAM."
[13:24] <pleia2> it won't be fast, but it should be ok
[13:24] <kushalsejwal> okay
[13:25] <kushalsejwal> I hope better than ubuntu, because I tried running ubuntu on the same system and it was very slow
[13:25] <pleia2> yeah
[13:25] <pleia2> you might also consider installing fluxbox, which is a lighter weight window manager
[13:26] <kushalsejwal> okay
[13:27] <kushalsejwal> thanks pleia2 for all the suggestions :)
[13:27] <pleia2> you're welcome :)
[13:30] <kushalsejwal> I am complete Gnome lover and therefore always stick to ubuntu... but there is only one DE which attracts me after GNOME i.e XFCE
[13:31] <kushalsejwal> its nice and simple
[15:04] <mcqr> Hi, can anyone tell me why a user is not listet in Users and groups? I have also problems wiht login screen, where no user picture (not even default) is shown.
[15:04] <TheSheep> mcqr: is it listed in /etc/passwd?
[15:06] <mcqr> TheSheep, yes it is "matic:x:500:500:Matic,,,:/home/matic:/bin/bash"
[15:07] <TheSheep> mcqr: its pid should be 1000 or larger
[15:08] <TheSheep> mcqr: how did you create that user?
[15:08] <mcqr> TheSheep, This is the user created during installation.
[15:09] <TheSheep> mcqr: version?
[15:09] <mcqr> TheSheep, 9.10
[15:10] <TheSheep> strange, mine has pid 1000, also user created during install
[15:10] <TheSheep> mcqr: which cd? desktop or alternate?
[15:10] <mcqr> TheSheep, desktop
[15:10] <TheSheep> :/
[15:11] <TheSheep> same here
[15:11] <mcqr> TheSheep, can this be because I used the home partition before in fedora and didn't formated it?
[15:12] <TheSheep> no, I don't think so
[15:12] <TheSheep> can you create  new user and see what pid it has?
[15:14] <mcqr> TheSheep, the pid of new created user is 1000 and is listed in "users and groups"
[15:16] <TheSheep> mcqr: why don't you just use that user?
[15:17] <mcqr> TheSheep: I'll log out and see if the user is listed in login screen
[15:23] <mcqr> TheSheep: The new user is listed in login screen, so I'll use this one. Thak you for your support.
[15:35] <mhall119> okay, so I added a file in /etc/X11/Xsession.d/71something to set XDG_CONFIG_HOME to $HOME/.qimo
[15:35] <mhall119> which makes my new Qimo session work right
[15:35] <mhall119> but then logging out, gdm freezes up
[15:37] <mhall119> any ideas?
[15:43] <alienkid10> any of you use persistence?
[15:45] <TheSheep> alienkid10: persistence of what?
[15:46] <TheSheep> hehe, aparently his persistence was a little poor :)
[15:55] <onaogh> is there anyway to fix the size and dimensions of Thunar
[15:55] <onaogh> so that everytime i start Thunar file manager, it starts at that specific coords
[16:01] <TheSheep> onaogh: I think it remembers the last size an position
[16:02] <onaogh> it doesn't
[16:02] <onaogh> always opens at far top left
[16:02] <TheSheep> onaogh: works for me, it always opens where there is free space on my screen
[16:02] <TheSheep> onaogh: with the last size
[16:03] <onaogh> do you think it is because of my small screen 12" 1280x800
[16:05] <TheSheep> same screen size here
[16:29] <Dark_Dragon> anyone here now??
[16:30] <eXpl0i7> .
[16:30] <Dark_Dragon> anyone know where I can get the mp3el codec?
[16:30] <Dark_Dragon> google gives me spanish sites having nothing to do with the linux mp3el package
[16:30] <eXpl0i7> what is mp3el?
[16:31] <Dark_Dragon> its a codec for broadwave internet radio server
[16:31] <Dark_Dragon> I installed lame enc & lame acm but its still missing
[16:31] <eXpl0i7> !mp3el
[16:31] <eXpl0i7> xD
[16:31] <eXpl0i7> i don't know
[16:32] <Dark_Dragon> yeah I am also trying to get broadwave configured using linux ....
[16:32] <Dark_Dragon> not sure what to edit to get it to allow the ports & upnp ports & port 1088 avalible
[16:40] <Soul_Shadow> ok back, that was odd
[17:11] <donata> hello
[17:11] <donata> anyone can help me with wireless activation on dell laptop with xubuntu 9.10?
[17:21] <onaogh> xubuntu have got much better than last time i used it
[17:26] <TheSheep> dowhat's wireless activation?
[18:22] <donata> hello
[18:22] <donata> does anyone know how to activate wireless connection on xubuntu 9.10 which runs on dell laptop?
[18:28] <Balsaq> prolly have to use ndswrapper donata
[18:40] <Psilocybin_Elf> Does anyone know of a good command line program for torrents.....something like wget but for..well, torrents!?
[18:45] <eXpl0i7> why command line?
[18:45] <onaogh> i never heard of cl torrent client
[18:45] <eXpl0i7> you don't have X?
[18:45] <eXpl0i7> or something else?
[18:46] <onaogh> anyways, what does this line in ~/.config/Thunar/thurarrc mean: LastSeparatorPosition=118
[18:46] <onaogh> actually, i am looking for a way to let Thunar always start in a fixed position
[18:46] <onaogh> right now, it starts in random positions
[18:51] <eXpl0i7> onaogh: hmm....
[18:53] <onaogh> eXpl0i7, hmmm... dont tell me google it, because google didnt return anything regarding this
[18:54] <eXpl0i7> i'm try to find something on google, but no luck
[18:55] <onaogh> :) already googling for hours
[18:56] <eXpl0i7> :)
[18:56] <onaogh> some dudes here told me that he is fine with Thunar positioning, he says thunar remember last position
[18:56] <onaogh> but in mycase, it doesn't, i am using ubuntu 9.10
[18:56] <onaogh> maybe because my screen is small, it is X61 12"
[18:58] <eXpl0i7> i'm using 9.04 but thunar not remember position
[18:58] <eXpl0i7> xD
[18:59] <onaogh> i checked the Thunar configuration file, there is nothing mentioning the last position, rather than that, there is a line about last saved dimensions
[19:00] <onaogh> ~/.config/Thunar/thunarrc
[19:13] <mhall119> onaogh, it's the window manager that positions it
[19:13] <mhall119> I don't know if you can set xfwm rules to place it in the same place every time
[19:14] <mhall119> devilspie is a program that lets you do it though, you might try that
[19:24] <Psilocybin_Elf> I do have X, I use Vuze for torrents....I just prefer smaller, cl programs to save memory...
[19:28] <eXpl0i7> Psilocybin_Elf: Deluge is a good torrent client
[19:41] <Psilocybin_Elf> Cheers, I'll check it out :-)
[19:41] <onaogh> good hint mhall119, thanks
[19:59] <eXpl0i7> how to set numlock auto on at boot
[19:59] <eXpl0i7> ?
[20:14] <Soul^Dragon> hello ppl
[21:09] <rooligan> hey guys