[00:05] <titeuf_87> code looks fairly simple to understand. What's currently being worked on and what could you use help with?
[00:06] <ubuntujenkins> currently we could do with help on the actual taking screenshots bit Red_HamsterX has had a look at is so best to ask him, not sure if he is here right now
[00:07] <ubuntujenkins> I am being stupid and I think it is because it it to late at night but I can't get the command os.system("gnome-session-save --kill --silent") to run when the countdown hits 0
[00:08] <ubuntujenkins> should be very easy but apparently not
[00:09] <titeuf_87> you would do something like if counter == 0: os.system("...") else: self.builder.get_object("...
[00:09] <titeuf_87> split over four lines
[00:11] <Red_HamsterX> I'm here. Just a bit busy.
[00:11] <Red_HamsterX> A primitive screenshot module has been added. I'll flesh it out tomorrow.
[00:11] <titeuf_87> ah ok
[00:12] <ubuntujenkins> sorry could you please explain the server stuff very quickly
[00:12] <Red_HamsterX> Sure.
[00:13] <ubuntujenkins> titeuf_87 has joined us if you hadn't gathered
[00:13] <titeuf_87> I think I got it: quickshot uses bzr to get the latest screenshots, looks what's missing, present those to the user, and uses bzr again to add those missing screenshots
[00:13] <Red_HamsterX> That was the old model.
[00:13] <Red_HamsterX> I'm working on implementing something HTTP-based.
[00:13] <titeuf_87> oh ok
[00:13] <ubuntujenkins> the varification of the user for bzr was to complex
[00:14] <Red_HamsterX> It'll use POST + meta-data + credentials to submit screenshots and GET to find out what needs to be screencapps and any parameters about what need to be collected.
[00:14] <Red_HamsterX> This decouples it from bzr and launchpad, which reduces the complexity of setup and deployment.
[00:15] <Red_HamsterX> It technically makes the quickshot user optional, too, but that may stick around since it's easier to do things liek change resolution and configuration settings in a throwaway account.
[00:15] <ubuntujenkins> also the quickshot user has the default lucid setup
[00:15] <Red_HamsterX> I'll be exposing a Python API for the HTTP stuff later tonight/early tomorrow, once I finish other obligations that have recently arisen.
[00:15] <Red_HamsterX> Yes, that, too.
[00:16] <Red_HamsterX> No weird themes.
[00:16] <Red_HamsterX> Nothing that might intimidate a user looking for colours and icons that are still alien.
[00:17] <Red_HamsterX> I just joined the project this week, so I haven't actually contributed much more than ideas yet.
[00:18] <Red_HamsterX> My one-hour screencap-and-upload hack is in quickshot/lib.
[00:18] <ubuntujenkins> which branch?
[00:18] <Red_HamsterX> Yours.
[00:18] <Red_HamsterX> I made a mistake when checking it out on my netbook.
[00:18] <Red_HamsterX> And then saved to the wrong place.
[00:19] <ubuntujenkins> i can't see it.
[00:19] <Red_HamsterX> Odd...
[00:19] <Red_HamsterX> Maybe it's in some sort of freakish limbo.
[00:20] <Red_HamsterX> Oh, well. It'll get to main somehow.
[00:20] <ubuntujenkins> I always check before i push branches as mine is low traffic I just check the web interface
[00:20] <Red_HamsterX> Worst-case, I just diff against a prior revision and patch.
[00:20] <Red_HamsterX> Got a link to this interface?
[00:20] <ubuntujenkins> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~quickshotdevs/quickshot/luke-quickshot/changes
[00:21] <ubuntujenkins> is where i check
[00:21] <ubuntujenkins> its only be open to all in the last 2 days
[00:21] <ubuntujenkins> since revison 40
[00:21] <Red_HamsterX> Yeah... I don't see it. Yet it--
[00:21] <Red_HamsterX> Oh...
[00:21] <Red_HamsterX> No, it's not in yours.
[00:21] <Red_HamsterX> I was sshed into my netbook when I thought I mangically found it.
[00:21] <Red_HamsterX> bzr is confusing. :(
[00:22] <ubuntujenkins> lol that makes sense
[00:23] <ubuntujenkins> add it to main if you can I am going to merge mine into main now
[00:23] <Red_HamsterX> Merge yours first. I'll just scp and add it.
[00:23] <Red_HamsterX> Like, here.
[00:23] <Red_HamsterX> I know my desktop is running main.
[00:24] <IlyaHaykinson> godbyk: is there an inline comment?
[00:24] <IlyaHaykinson> something like \comment{foo}
[00:24] <godbyk> IlyaHaykinson: nope.
[00:24] <godbyk> well, lemme check.. the comment package may have one.
[00:25] <IlyaHaykinson> it may help to have these inline comments that we can insert in places, and make them show up in some prominent color
[00:25] <IlyaHaykinson> during development
[00:25] <IlyaHaykinson> but then turn them off toward production.
[00:25] <ubuntujenkins> silly question but how do i merge it correctly? I only started using bzr at the start of this project
[00:25] <IlyaHaykinson> i'm thinking like the little [fact?] or [neutrality violation] supertitles in Wikipedia
[00:25] <Red_HamsterX> Wanna create a global 'settings.py' module with things like 'DEBUG = True'?
[00:26] <Red_HamsterX> Or do you mean for developers only?
[00:26] <godbyk> IlyaHaykinson: Nope. Just \begin{comment}...\end{comment} (which you can use inline, even though it's a bit bulky)
[00:26] <Red_HamsterX> If it's just for developers, #FIXME and #TODO usually get special treatment from editors.
[00:26] <godbyk> IlyaHaykinson: Ah, you want to insert comments that appear in the PDF?
[00:26] <Red_HamsterX> Oh, for the manual proper.
[00:26] <Red_HamsterX> Ignore me.
[00:27] <IlyaHaykinson> godbyk: yeah, that could be useful
[00:27] <IlyaHaykinson> that way it'll be very obvious in the compiled version
[00:27] <godbyk> IlyaHaykinson: yeah, I can do that. give me just a sec.
[00:27] <titeuf_87> ubuntujenkins, bzr push lp:quickshot ? Haven't used bazaar much yet myself so not sure if that's correct
[00:27] <Red_HamsterX> ubuntujenkins, I have no idea for sure, but I think it's either join or push.
[00:27] <godbyk> there's a really nice pkg for doing just that.
[00:28] <Red_HamsterX> I'm trying to push from my netbook.
[00:29] <ubuntujenkins> cool I will wait a moment
[00:29] <Red_HamsterX> Yeah, push seemed to work.
[00:29] <Red_HamsterX> I added rev 32 and my "dunno, lawl" rev 33.
[00:29] <manualbot> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/revision/32 | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual -r 32
[00:29] <manualbot> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/revision/33 | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual -r 33
[00:30] <Red_HamsterX> The bot needs to be just a little less aggressive...
[00:30] <ubuntujenkins> it is in main now https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~quickshotdevs/quickshot/quickshot
[00:31] <Red_HamsterX> Using 'bzr merge' now.
[00:31] <godbyk> IlyaHaykinson: does 'kpsewhich todonotes.sty' return anythingn for you?
[00:31] <Red_HamsterX> I got my changes...
[00:31] <Red_HamsterX> Hmmm...
[00:31] <godbyk> IlyaHaykinson: I'm going to finish updating the install-pkgs.sh script, then I'll push the changes and tell you how to do the notes.
[00:31] <Red_HamsterX> I don't see yours, ubuntujenkins.
[00:31] <ubuntujenkins> not merged yet
[00:31] <Red_HamsterX> Ah.
[00:32] <ubuntujenkins> trying now
[00:32] <Red_HamsterX> I should grab the Lucid ISO so I can do stuff in a real environment.
[00:32] <ubuntujenkins> how do I fix conflicts?
[00:32] <Red_HamsterX> bzr resolve <file>
[00:33] <Red_HamsterX> That part's the same as SVN.
[00:35] <ubuntujenkins> well I have pushed rev 34 lets hope I didn't break it
[00:35] <manualbot> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/revision/34 | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual -r 34
[00:35] <godbyk> IlyaHaykinson: I just pushed rev 431.
[00:35] <manualbot> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/revision/431 | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual -r 431
[00:36] <godbyk> IlyaHaykinson: It uses the todonotes package.
[00:36] <godbyk> IlyaHaykinson: Run the install-pkgs.sh script to make sure you have it installed.
[00:36] <Red_HamsterX> If you broke it, we can just roll back.
[00:36] <ubuntujenkins> it appears to work
[00:36] <ubuntujenkins> looks like it any way
[00:36] <godbyk> IlyaHaykinson: Then you can type \todo{Hey, someone fix this!} in the doc and it'll show up in the PDF as a margin note.
[00:37] <Red_HamsterX> bzr pull seems to have grabbed all of your new stuff.
[00:37] <godbyk> IlyaHaykinson: If you think we should have different classes of TODO notes, make a list and let me know and I can write some custom commands for them.
[00:37] <godbyk> IlyaHaykinson: (Give 'em different colors, etc.)
[00:38] <titeuf_87> same here, I got both of all your changes
[00:38] <ubuntujenkins> so titeuf_87 now main is up to date if you can get it actually caputing screenshots that would be great. the list of screen shots is  http://paste.ubuntu.com/389962/
[00:38] <Red_HamsterX> We are learning. :)
[00:39] <ubuntujenkins> I have a list of language codes somewhere that we haev to look for in the users setting I will look for it in the morning
[00:39] <Red_HamsterX> titeuf_87, while you could get it capturing screenshots, I know how to do that and should have a fairly robust collection of easy-to-use functions tomorrow/Monday.
[00:40] <ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX if you can find something for titeuf_87 to do I am going to go to bed as I have loads of uni work to do tomorrow
[00:40] <ubuntujenkins> night all
[00:40] <Red_HamsterX> Though you could like the timer and my grab-active-window function right now to make sure it wirtes a screenshot file to disk.
[00:40] <titeuf_87> night ubuntujenkins
[00:40] <Red_HamsterX> link*
[00:40] <ubuntujenkins> thanks all
[00:40] <Red_HamsterX> G'night and good luck~
[00:40] <titeuf_87> I can look into that :)
[00:40] <Red_HamsterX> What's your background with Python?
[00:41] <titeuf_87> ummm...been using it for a couple of years now for hobby stuff, although never really anything big as I never get motivated to finish my projects
[00:43] <Red_HamsterX> I've got some projects listed at http://uguu.ca/ and I contribute patches against open issues when I can.
[00:43] <ubuntujenkins> well main is broken I am actually off to bed now night :-)
[00:43] <Red_HamsterX> Broken's fine.
[00:43] <Red_HamsterX> It means titeuf_87 can fix bugs and make it un-broken.
[00:44] <titeuf_87> hehe
[00:44] <Red_HamsterX> (While I work on the non-GUI stuff)
[00:44] <titeuf_87> ok, I'll see what all works/doesn't work
[00:44] <Red_HamsterX> (After finally finishing these invoices)
[00:44] <Red_HamsterX> I'm still quite new to the project.
[00:45] <Red_HamsterX> I'm confident in my skills, but I'm not fully aware of the scope of what needs to be done.
[00:45] <Red_HamsterX> So I can't really delegate effectively.
[00:45] <Red_HamsterX> I've taken responsibility for the server communication and actual screencapping routines for now, though.
[00:46] <Red_HamsterX> With intent to deliver ASAP.
[00:46] <Red_HamsterX> I'll be coding in accordance with PEP-8, but I don't think the project's mature enough to require a convention from everyone. Just make sure your code, and any code you hack against, is consistent, I suppose.
[00:47] <titeuf_87> it's a bit of a mix already in there :)
[00:47] <Red_HamsterX> Yeah.
[00:48] <Red_HamsterX> I think the current goal is "make it work", not "make it publication-worthy".
[00:48] <Red_HamsterX> Which is fine.
[00:48] <Red_HamsterX> Things are more fun that way.
[00:48] <titeuf_87> yeah
[00:49]  * Red_HamsterX stops distracting himself and finishes invoicing people so he can get to work on what actually matters: this.
[00:49] <titeuf_87> heh, have fun!
[00:55] <IlyaHaykinson> godbyk: thx for the \todo command
[00:55] <godbyk> IlyaHaykinson: np. If you want, I can set up different types of \todo commands that have different colors.
[00:56] <IlyaHaykinson> let me try it out
[00:56] <godbyk> 'kay.
[00:57] <IlyaHaykinson> looks really good. thanks again! will make editing and review easier.
[00:58] <IlyaHaykinson> instead of just using %comments, this todo command will make it very obvious to every reader, instead of just people pulling up the latex source
[00:59] <godbyk> IlyaHaykinson: That's true. Just depends on who you want to see the comment. :)
[01:00] <IlyaHaykinson> yes. though at the moment i would say _everyone_.
[01:00] <godbyk> right.
[01:00] <godbyk> and it's a one-line edit to disable all the \todos.
[01:01] <godbyk> there's also a \listoftodos command I can add that'll give an index to the TODOs (say, after the table of contents)
[01:02] <IlyaHaykinson> hm, let's leave as-is for now.
[01:03] <IlyaHaykinson> alright, gotta go. l8r
[01:03] <godbyk> k
[01:04] <godbyk> see ya
[01:04] <semioticrobotic> Some folders in my music library have little "lock" icons in the upper righthand corner.  What does that mean?
[01:04] <Red_HamsterX> It means they're read-only.
[01:04] <semioticrobotic> ...and more importantly, how do I get rid of them?
[01:04] <semioticrobotic> ah
[01:04] <semioticrobotic> okay
[01:04] <Red_HamsterX> Are you comfortable with terminals?
[01:04] <semioticrobotic> well, that makes sense, since I last used the drive on a Mac
[01:04] <semioticrobotic> permissions are probably all messed up
[01:04] <semioticrobotic> I'm a novice with the terminal
[01:04] <semioticrobotic> getting more comfortable
[01:04] <Red_HamsterX> Yeah, probably.
[01:05] <Red_HamsterX> Chances are they belong to another user.
[01:05] <Red_HamsterX> OS X likes to start numbering users at 500.
[01:05] <semioticrobotic> makes total sense
[01:05] <Red_HamsterX> Ubuntu likes 1000.
[01:05] <semioticrobotic> oh, lovely
[01:05] <semioticrobotic> ok
[01:05] <Red_HamsterX> It's easy to fix by command-line, though.
[01:05] <semioticrobotic> alrighty
[01:05] <semioticrobotic> is it difficult to explain?
[01:05] <titeuf_87> you could right-click on it, open the properties and look at the permissions tab, can change owner/perms there too
[01:06] <Red_HamsterX> Open a terminal and move to the directory containing the files.
[01:06] <Red_HamsterX> titeuf_87, that'll probably fail without super-user access.
[01:06] <titeuf_87> ah good point!
[01:06] <Red_HamsterX> I'd be amazed (in horror) if you could say you're the owner of files without such access.
[01:07] <semioticrobotic> Looks like Red_HamsterX is right
[01:07] <semioticrobotic> :-/
[01:07] <Red_HamsterX> It's fine.
[01:07] <Red_HamsterX> Changing permissions is easy.
[01:07] <Red_HamsterX> Like, one-command easy.
[01:08] <semioticrobotic> okay
[01:08] <semioticrobotic> let me get my tea off the stove ... I'll be right back
[01:10] <semioticrobotic> okay, back
[01:10] <semioticrobotic> sorry to keep you waiting
[01:10] <semioticrobotic> i'll load a terminal
[01:11] <semioticrobotic> Red_HamsterX: Okay, I'm at a terminal
[01:12] <semioticrobotic> why are some folders highlighted green in the terminal?
[01:13] <Red_HamsterX> They should all be highlighted.
[01:13] <Red_HamsterX> It's just a niceity to make it more obvious what types of files you're dealing with.
[01:13] <Red_HamsterX> ls is aliased to 'ls --color' by default.
[01:14] <semioticrobotic> in the terminal, some folders are green, others aren't
[01:14] <semioticrobotic> ah, okay
[01:14] <semioticrobotic> well, then that's odd
[01:14] <semioticrobotic> because all the folders with music should be green ... but they're not
[01:14] <semioticrobotic> oh well
[01:14] <semioticrobotic> save that problem for later
[01:15] <Red_HamsterX> Maybe it's related to permissions...
[01:15] <semioticrobotic> could be
[01:15] <Red_HamsterX> Can you use 'ls -l' to see if anything's weird about them?
[01:15] <Red_HamsterX> By 'weird', I mean 'different from those you created youself'.
[01:15] <semioticrobotic> it's permissions
[01:15] <semioticrobotic> :)
[01:15] <semioticrobotic> you were right
[01:16] <Red_HamsterX> Ownership or access?
[01:16] <semioticrobotic> how can I tell?
[01:16] <semioticrobotic> all I can see is that the combinations of wxr stuff is different for different colors
[01:16] <Red_HamsterX> drwxr-xr-x 2 flan flan 4096 2010-03-06 16:25 lib
[01:17] <Red_HamsterX> Owner: user flan, group flan
[01:17] <Red_HamsterX> That's probably what we'll have to fix with the music files themselves.
[01:17] <semioticrobotic> drwxr-xr-x 1 99 99  4 2010-02-07 17:20 The Mighty Mighty Bosstones
[01:17] <semioticrobotic> drwxrwxrwx 1 99 99  5 2009-12-31 14:21 The Postal Service
[01:18] <Red_HamsterX> I think we just found the problem.
[01:18] <semioticrobotic> you can see the differences there
[01:18] <Red_HamsterX> '99 99'
[01:18] <semioticrobotic> okay
[01:18] <semioticrobotic> yeah
[01:18] <Red_HamsterX> 99 is Apple's generic "I dunno who you are" number.
[01:18] <semioticrobotic> ha!
[01:18] <semioticrobotic> every folder has 99 99
[01:18] <Red_HamsterX> You have nothing with uid or gid 99 on your Ubuntu system.
[01:18] <Red_HamsterX> So let's change that.
[01:19] <semioticrobotic> okay
[01:19] <Red_HamsterX> sudo chown -R flan:flan *
[01:19] <Red_HamsterX> Where 'flan' is your name.
[01:19] <Red_HamsterX> It's really mine.
[01:19] <Red_HamsterX> You can't have it.
[01:19] <semioticrobotic> will these changes prohibit me from using this disk on my Mac?
[01:19] <semioticrobotic> all my music is on an external drive that I swap between machines
[01:19] <Red_HamsterX> It'll flip the lock.
[01:19] <Red_HamsterX> Ooh...
[01:19] <Red_HamsterX> Okay, in that case, the problem may well be different.
[01:20] <semioticrobotic> okay
[01:20] <semioticrobotic> glad I mentioned that then!
[01:20] <semioticrobotic> :)
[01:20] <Red_HamsterX> I was under the impression that this was an HFS+ partition.
[01:20] <Red_HamsterX> Not FAT32.
[01:20] <Red_HamsterX> Which is likely the case if you carry it everywhere.
[01:20] <semioticrobotic> Actually, it's HFS
[01:21] <semioticrobotic> (non-jounaled, I believe)
[01:21] <Red_HamsterX> Oh. Then this change would flip the lock.
[01:21] <semioticrobotic> I just move the drive between Macs in the house, my Ubuntu machine, and my television
[01:21] <Red_HamsterX> The files would still be readable, but not writeable.
[01:21] <Red_HamsterX> ...You have a TV that understands HFS?
[01:22] <semioticrobotic> I have a Western Digital Media Center, which reads the HFS drive and sends files to the TV
[01:22] <semioticrobotic> :)
[01:22] <semioticrobotic> So now, the TV isn't doing the work
[01:22] <Red_HamsterX> Ah.
[01:22] <semioticrobotic> er, no
[01:22] <Red_HamsterX> Okay, then, I dunno what you should do...
[01:22] <Red_HamsterX> If you change ownership, it'll just go the other way.
[01:22] <semioticrobotic> I see
[01:22] <Red_HamsterX> The Macs will say "I can't write to this".
[01:23] <Red_HamsterX> But Ubuntu will be happy.
[01:23] <semioticrobotic> there isn't a way to make all the folders read/write from any platform?
[01:23] <semioticrobotic> ha!
[01:23] <Red_HamsterX> Probably best to leave ownership alone if the Macs are where your music comes from.
[01:23] <semioticrobotic> or, the other way around
[01:23] <semioticrobotic> okay, I gotcha
[01:23] <semioticrobotic> sounds fine
[01:23] <Red_HamsterX> There is a way, but it's implicitly insecure.
[01:23] <semioticrobotic> can I ask you another question?
[01:23] <semioticrobotic> okay
[01:24] <Red_HamsterX> From the current location, 'sudo chmod o=rwx *'
[01:24] <Red_HamsterX> If your directories are one layer deep, you'll then be able to write to them from anywhere.
[01:24] <semioticrobotic> I see
[01:24] <semioticrobotic> but it's my understanding that Ubuntu does not support HFS very well
[01:24] <semioticrobotic> is that true?
[01:24] <Red_HamsterX> The insecurity comes from the fact that, when the thing is connected, any user ont he system can write to them, too.
[01:25] <Red_HamsterX> I don't know.
[01:25] <Red_HamsterX> I'm not a Mac person.
[01:25] <semioticrobotic> ah, I see how that can be insecure, yes
[01:25] <semioticrobotic> well, I'm hoping the current Macbook will be my last Mac
[01:25] <semioticrobotic> my next primary computer will be running Ubuntu
[01:26] <semioticrobotic> and at that point
[01:26] <semioticrobotic> I'll probably reformat my media drive to something more universally acceptable
[01:28]  * Red_HamsterX sets up his Lucid system with only one partition.
[01:29] <Red_HamsterX> Stupidity, thy manifestation be me!
[01:29] <semioticrobotic> ha!
[01:29] <semioticrobotic> speaking of which
[01:29] <semioticrobotic> what do you recommend for backup software on Ubuntu?
[01:29] <Red_HamsterX> Oh, and automatic login, too.
[01:29] <Red_HamsterX> Dunno.
[01:29] <semioticrobotic> you don't make backups either?
[01:29] <Red_HamsterX> I have RAID-1 on everything and ten-minute rsync.
[01:30] <semioticrobotic> ah
[01:30] <semioticrobotic> well then
[01:30]  * semioticrobotic laughs
[01:30] <Red_HamsterX> All code is managed by subversion, with off-site backups.
[01:30] <semioticrobotic> don't see much need for a backup solution, then!
[01:30] <Red_HamsterX> Nope.
[01:30] <Red_HamsterX> I burn DVDs sometimes, but only for content that's archive-only.
[01:31] <semioticrobotic> makes sense
[01:31] <semioticrobotic> I am running Ubuntu on my ultraportable
[01:31] <semioticrobotic> and using that system to test various applications
[01:31] <Red_HamsterX> Oh. Well, I suppose my Eee isn't RAIDed.
[01:31] <Red_HamsterX> But it rsyncs locally to an SD card.
[01:31] <Red_HamsterX> And this system.
[01:31] <semioticrobotic> so I can make a smooth transition from my Mac when I finally ditch it for a new machine
[01:32] <semioticrobotic> rsyncing to an SD card is a great idea
[01:32] <Red_HamsterX> It's the offline fallback.
[01:32] <Red_HamsterX> If it can't connect to this thing, it goes there.
[01:33] <semioticrobotic> gotcha
[01:33] <semioticrobotic> well, the software center offers several solutions, so I'll just play with those
[01:33] <semioticrobotic> I think BackInTime is an rsync GUI.  I'll start with that.
[01:33] <Red_HamsterX> I'm primarily a Debian user, so I'm still kinda old-school in terms of scripting things.
[01:34] <semioticrobotic> thanks for your help Red_HamsterX
[01:34] <Red_HamsterX> Welcome.
[01:34] <semioticrobotic> I appreciate it
[01:34] <semioticrobotic> I'm off to make some manual edits now
[01:34] <semioticrobotic> thanks for helping a n00b with some pretty basic stuff :)
[01:34] <Red_HamsterX> Everyone has to start learning somewhere.
[01:35] <Red_HamsterX> And you've already got enoughe nthusiasm for the technology to compensate for any n00bish mistakes. :)
[01:35] <semioticrobotic> I try to learn one or two new Ubuntu things each day
[01:35] <semioticrobotic> ha!  well, that's true
[01:35] <semioticrobotic> I'm very willing to learn
[01:35] <semioticrobotic> just need some help along the way
[01:35] <Red_HamsterX> And to teach.
[01:35] <Red_HamsterX> Else you wouldn't be there.
[01:35] <Red_HamsterX> be here*
[01:36] <semioticrobotic> well, that's true, too
[01:36] <semioticrobotic> :)
[01:36] <semioticrobotic> take care
[01:36] <Red_HamsterX> You, too.
[01:45] <titeuf_87> Red_HamsterX, the list of screenshots that still needs to be taken is something you'll take care of?
[01:48] <Red_HamsterX> titeuf_87, no, it is not. I am not sure who is co-ordinating that, but godbyk may know.
[01:48] <Red_HamsterX> That's something you could probably look into, though.
[01:49] <Red_HamsterX> Planning how to prompt users for that stuff/building a workflow outline for each one.
[01:49] <godbyk> I don't know that anyone's really coordinating it yet.
[01:49] <godbyk> In the manual, we write \screenshotTODO{Description of screenshot.}
[01:49] <Red_HamsterX> I'm just focusing on the libraries that will manage the actual actions, not the actual business logic.
[01:49] <Red_HamsterX> Do we have a lit of programs?
[01:49] <Red_HamsterX> list*
[01:49] <godbyk> The descriptions of all the screenshots get added to a screenshots.log file when you compile the manual.
[01:50] <godbyk> But something more formal should be done with the descriptions, probably.
[01:50] <godbyk> Red_HamsterX: The list looks like this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/389997/
[01:51] <Red_HamsterX> I hope Lucid's login screen won't stay so barren...
[01:51] <Red_HamsterX> I like the session/language/action prompts.
[01:52] <Red_HamsterX> Wait... We're going into Launchpad?
[01:52] <Red_HamsterX> Why?
[01:52] <Red_HamsterX> (Line 28)
[01:56] <Red_HamsterX> I think I have another thing for humphrybc to complain about.
[01:56] <Red_HamsterX> Two, actually.
[02:10] <titeuf_87> Red_HamsterX, I've pushed my changes to a new branch on launchpad
[02:10] <titeuf_87> I'm going to work more on it tomorrow, bed time now. Night all
[10:43] <ubuntujenkins> hello everyone
[10:46] <ubuntujenkins> TommyBrunn the countdown now works thanks to titeuf_87 who has joined the team, main is broken but has been fixed in titeuf_87's branch.
[10:47] <TommyBrunn> Oh, nice!
[10:49] <TommyBrunn> He should really speak to Neil before starting hacking on taking screenshots, though.
[10:49] <TommyBrunn> He already has a lib ready for that.
[10:49] <TommyBrunn> brb
[10:51] <ubuntujenkins> thats cool neil and simon spoke last night
[10:53] <ubuntujenkins> brb just rebooting
[10:56] <ubuntujenkins> back
[12:51] <rudi> hey guys
[12:51] <rudi> re: the chapter on hardware-prefs etc
[12:52] <rudi> i've found a gui app to replace all the cli commands i wrote up yesterday and it is the repos
[12:52] <rudi> and seems  to work allright
[16:33] <ubuntujenkins> how is everyone at the moment?
[16:37] <titeuf_87> pretty good! And you?
[16:38] <ubuntujenkins> I am good thinking i shoudl do some coursework
[16:39] <ubuntujenkins> and not be on irc
[19:43] <vish> thorwil: i think we should stay away from using purple , since it is reserved for canonical
[19:43] <thorwil> vish: added manual title page tests to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/Artwork (look for 2010-03-07 a to e)
[19:43] <vish> we can use the orange shades
[19:44] <thorwil> vish: right. that's why the mockup wallpaper is full of it ;p
[19:45] <vish> thorwil: heh , it is a flaw it their standards.. or they could just say "Canonical did it" ;p
[19:45] <thorwil> vish: too much of that orange is just agressive, so we need something else
[19:46] <vish> thorwil: that was the first thing that struck me as very odd... but it might be the argument i assumed
[19:46] <vish>  true..
[19:46] <ubuntujenkins> I like option e, how is purple reserved for conical you can't patent a colour
[19:47] <thorwil> ubuntujenkins: vish thinks that because the ubuntu has orange and the canonical logo uses aubergine
[19:47] <vish> ubuntujenkins: not patent .. the purpose of the branding is anything having lot of purple means canonical
[19:47] <vish> thorwil: not me thinks.. that was what sabdfl blogged
[19:47] <vish> thorwil: but personally i like e :)
[19:48] <ubuntujenkins> I think that the fact that so much purple is in the theme and boot splash means we cn still use it I see vish's point though
[19:48] <thorwil> Mark wrote: "The use of Aubergine indicates Commercial involvement of one form or another, while Orange is a signal of community engagement", so based on that vish is right
[19:49] <vish> ubuntujenkins: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/308
[19:49] <thorwil> it really sucks hard that it's exactly the reverse of how i feel the colors :/
[19:49] <vish> :)
[19:50] <vish> thorwil: i was thinking we could incorporate the dots
[19:50] <ubuntujenkins> I think overall that vish is right but I like the desgins :-), keep up the good work.
[19:50] <ubuntujenkins> both of you
[19:50] <thorwil> ty
[19:56] <thorwil> vish: we could, but weren't the examples on dark ground, indicating corporate, too? should not force it anyway and i don't feel like trying, actually
[19:58] <vish> oh , was it.. i didnt understand the dots fully..
[19:58] <vish> thorwil: i think sabdfl missed a paragraph that was given to him ;p
[19:58] <thorwil> vish: why, where?
[19:59] <vish> thorwil: it just seemed the dots wasnt fully explained , or i didnt understand it fully.. anyways , just kidding ;)
[20:00] <vish> i got the engineered part.. but then it went over my head
[20:04] <vish> ah righto.. more space == user
[20:04] <vish> oops other way ;p
[20:06] <vish> thorwil: IMO , we use "e" without the top curve but with the band?
[20:07] <vish> or we can do the curve in dots with orange[which we have to make sure doesnt get too much]
[20:09] <thorwil> vish: dot grid emphasizes technical character, something i wanted to stay clear of
[20:09] <vish> ah ok, good..
[20:09] <thorwil> vish: also shouldn't be seen to enthusiastic about this new visual identity stuff ;)
[20:09] <vish> lol ;p
[20:10] <thorwil> vish: "e" with band but no top doesn't doi it for me
[20:11] <vish> hmm..
[20:12] <vish> thorwil: how about using orange for the curve and the logo , but we use grey for the icons?
[20:12] <thorwil> vish: added "f", just other color
[20:12] <thorwil> vish: trying
[20:13] <vish> hehe , i was doing the same.. /me lets you have the fun
[20:15] <thorwil> nah, too hard/dry
[20:17] <thorwil> gotta love inkscape: remove 664 unused definitions
[20:20] <vish> thorwil: after you mentioned the camera flash being close , i think we can use the fill for it and drop the stroke , looks good that way too
[20:20] <thorwil> vish: yes, the same thought occurred to me. otherwise the stroke would need to fixed, it's too thin
[20:21] <vish> yup
[20:21] <thorwil> vish: svg current state in https://code.launchpad.net/~t-w-/+junk/ubuntu_manual_cover
[20:22] <thorwil> lp doesn't let me get to the file online
[20:22] <vish> neat , ty
[20:28] <Red_HamsterX> ubuntujenkins, automated capture-and-upload test successful. :)
[20:28] <Red_HamsterX> I need to refactor, but it's simple and it works well.
[20:28] <Red_HamsterX> http://stellvia.uguu.ca/~flan/screencaps/data/
[20:29] <ubuntujenkins> sweet thats so cool thanks for sorting that.
[20:29] <ubuntujenkins> did it automatialy choos the window?
[20:29] <ubuntujenkins> *choose
[20:29] <Red_HamsterX> IT just grabs the active one right now.
[20:29] <Red_HamsterX> So the logical workflow is to set a timer.
[20:30] <titeuf_87> timer is in my branch, it waits three seconds, hides the window and take a screenshot
[20:30] <Red_HamsterX> Start timer; give user n seconds to give focus to the right window; capture; let user say "yes, this is what I want", then upload.
[20:31] <ubuntujenkins> cool sound good, is there a logical naming system in the upload? how does the focuse thing work when the user has focus follow mouse set?
[20:31] <titeuf_87> quickshot makes a new user, so the focus follow mouse won't be a problem there as that's not the default
[20:32] <Red_HamsterX> Nothing too logical right now. Just 'program-name<EMAIL_ADDRESS>for debugging purposes.
[20:32] <ubuntujenkins> good point silly me
[20:32] <Red_HamsterX> (Which will make it pretty easy to use thumbnail previews)
[20:32] <ubuntujenkins> that is a good naming system could be program-name-chapter at the start instead
[20:32] <Red_HamsterX> A simple script could be used to arrange these things into directories.
[20:33] <ubuntujenkins> sorry I am a slow at typing
[20:33] <ubuntujenkins> that good I have the driectories set up in this branch
[20:33] <Red_HamsterX> I'll need to discuss tagging meta-data with the writers when I have more of the API defined.
[20:33]  * ubuntujenkins looks for link
[20:33] <Red_HamsterX> It's easy to add stuff now, though.
[20:33] <Red_HamsterX> Just populate a dictionary and deconstruct an associative array.
[20:34] <Red_HamsterX> To go backwards, we should just need a regular expression and os.rename().
[20:34] <ubuntujenkins> bzr branch lp:ubuntu-manual-screenshots has a folder for each language as of 28/2/2010
[20:34] <ubuntujenkins> brb
[20:35] <Red_HamsterX> I'm going to focus on functionality before form. Once all the workflow logic is done, writing another layer to convert to the logical structure will be easy.
[20:36] <ubuntujenkins> functionality is definatley key
[20:37] <ubuntujenkins> godbyk I noticed on the to do list you are to be e-mailed on the addition of more language please can you let me know when we get more?
[20:38] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: Sure, if I hear anything, I'll pass it along.
[20:38] <ubuntujenkins> thanks
[20:38] <godbyk> Generally, they just show up.
[20:38] <godbyk> I think another was added in the last update.
[20:38] <ubuntujenkins> good to see more but hard to keep track, I will have a look for the missing one
[20:38] <godbyk> There are now 48 .po files.
[20:38] <ubuntujenkins> definalty one missing
[20:39] <godbyk> I think it was one of the Ms, but I don't recally.
[20:39] <godbyk> recall, rather.
[20:39] <ubuntujenkins> quickshot has come along so quickly in the last few days, how long untill we might have a fully functioning program titeuf_87 and Read_HamsterX?
[20:39] <ubuntujenkins> ok thanks godbyk have you got the link to the compiled manuals on your server?
[20:40] <titeuf_87> right now the next biggest missing feature is for it to get what screenshots still needs to be done in what languages
[20:41] <ubuntujenkins> every screen shot will be done in every language the list stands at ....
[20:41]  * ubuntujenkins finds it
[20:43] <ubuntujenkins> http://paste.ubuntu.com/390593/ is the screenshots list
[20:43] <ubuntujenkins> I will put an e-mail out to the list asking for people to add more screenshots in if they need them
[20:45] <ubuntujenkins> titeuf_87 are you member of https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual its an open team but its the project that we are doing quickshot for
[20:46] <Red_HamsterX> Everyone in Quickshot is part of that team.
[20:46] <Red_HamsterX> It's a sub-team.
[20:46] <titeuf_87> I am, cause I joined the quickshot dev team I'm in that one too
[20:46] <ubuntujenkins> cool I wasnt aware I joined quickshot later than the manual
[20:50] <titeuf_87> would using bzr to retrieve the already made screenshots be a good option to see what still needs to be done?
[20:51] <ubuntujenkins> there are no offically done screen shots already.
[20:52] <ubuntujenkins> The aim is to do them all with quickshot
[20:52] <ubuntujenkins> there are few very rough ones done by ben in lp:ubuntu-manual these were more to see what lucid looked like
[20:53] <titeuf_87> hmm, quickshot uses bzr to get the screenshots, see what's missing (for now that would be everything), propose those to the user. When the user takes the screenshot and uploads it, I guess they still need to be approved beforehand then? Whoever approves them could put them bazaar then
[20:55] <Red_HamsterX> The plan I'm working under transfers that responsibility to the upload-target server.
[20:55] <ubuntujenkins> It then relies on the manual to approve them and pop them in bzr.
[20:55] <Red_HamsterX> The client queries it for a list of yet-to-be finalized (and waiting-for-approval) screenshots.
[20:56] <titeuf_87> ah ok, I didn't know you would take care of that too
[20:56] <Red_HamsterX> Dunno.
[20:56] <Red_HamsterX> It's tentative.
[20:56] <ubuntujenkins> I plan to try and spend an hour a night approving
[20:56] <Red_HamsterX> It's just a couple of lists on my end.
[20:56] <Red_HamsterX> I could have it grab a signoff list from bzr.
[20:57] <Red_HamsterX> By using the web interface,
[20:57] <Red_HamsterX> Or by spidering the directories.
[20:57] <ubuntujenkins> but you haev to have an ssh key to get stuff from bzr so it would have to be done in the user and not the quickshot user
[20:57] <Red_HamsterX> If any images were moved there by someone, then it'll consider them final.
[20:58] <Red_HamsterX> Not quite.
[20:58] <Red_HamsterX> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~quickshotdevs/quickshot/quickshot/files
[20:58] <Red_HamsterX> I was thinking of spidering this view.
[20:58] <Red_HamsterX> Or grabing an individual file through it.
[20:59] <titeuf_87> ubuntujenkins, you don't need an ssh key if you just want to retrieve stuff from launchpad, but only when you want to upload anything I thought?
[20:59] <ubuntujenkins> If you can do it a long as it works I don't mind how you do it all the branches for the screenshots are here https://code.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-screenshots?field.lifecycle=ALL -: Red_HamsterX
[20:59] <godbyk> are you guys going with bzr for the screenshot stuff or the http/web route?  (or is it still undecided?)
[21:00] <Red_HamsterX> That's ocrrect. bzr export or bzr ls would be sufficient.
[21:00] <ubuntujenkins> titeuf_87 I think yesterday in the meeting we worked out that you do need an ssh key i wasn't 100% sure
[21:00] <Red_HamsterX> I've got the HTTP POST stuff working, godbyk.
[21:00] <Red_HamsterX> I think what we're working out now is how to migrate data.
[21:01] <godbyk> Oh, how to get it into the manual?
[21:01] <Red_HamsterX> How to get it into the hands of writers and keep track of which screenshots are done, yes.
[21:02] <godbyk> Gotcha.
[21:03] <ubuntujenkins> mmm... I see the problem
[21:05] <ubuntujenkins> if we can't get anything from bzr can we not have the server automatically update its self with the bzr branches?
[21:05] <ubuntujenkins> then they would be jsut like folders
[21:05] <godbyk> The server could periodically commit to the bzr branch.
[21:05] <Red_HamsterX> It could, yes. That's not a problem.
[21:05] <godbyk> I can have it log in as me, for instance and set a cronjob to run every so often to upload new screenshots.
[21:05] <Red_HamsterX> The problem is choosing images as 'final'.
[21:06] <Red_HamsterX> to mark as*
[21:06] <godbyk> Aha.
[21:06] <Red_HamsterX> Making it query bzr as the authoritative source would be easy, though.
[21:06] <Red_HamsterX> bzr ls <path>; don't ever ask users for any files already committed.
[21:07] <Red_HamsterX> (Or use the bzr-Python API)
[21:07] <Red_HamsterX> (Or something)
[21:07] <Red_HamsterX> Exporting files would also be quite easy.
[21:07] <Red_HamsterX> Writing an automated tar-and-serve script is simple.
[21:07] <ubuntujenkins> we will jsut have to aporve them as quickly as possible
[21:08] <Red_HamsterX> Well, there's no reason why the server can't consider itself half-authoritative.
[21:08] <Red_HamsterX> Prompting users only for files that have never been uploaded.
[21:08] <Red_HamsterX> But allowing re-uploads of anything at the user's request.
[21:09] <ubuntujenkins> we can tell the user which ones to re do right?
[21:09] <ubuntujenkins> through the server?
[21:09] <Red_HamsterX> Just take them out of bzr and remov ethem from the server and the client would start asking for the screenshot again.
[21:10] <ubuntujenkins> cool that would probably be the best way. I have a bash script to merge all 47 language branches into the main screenshots branch
[21:11] <Red_HamsterX> The logical flow would be 'client starts up and asks the server for a worklist', 'server queries bzr and determines what has already been approved', 'server queries local filesystem to determine what appears to have been completed', 'server sends client list of needed files and list of pending files'.
[21:11] <Red_HamsterX> pending-approval*
[21:11] <ubuntujenkins> that sounds good to me, I assume it is possible.
[21:12] <Red_HamsterX> The GUI would them step through the needed files automatically. Some option to let the user explicitly say "I need to redo this other screenshot!" would need to be provided, too.
[21:12] <Red_HamsterX> Perhaps a checklist or report view.
[21:12] <Red_HamsterX> Double-click anything to launch its prompt-and-grab script again.
[21:12] <Red_HamsterX> Or something.
[21:13] <Red_HamsterX> That's for the GUI people.
[21:13] <titeuf_87> that does sound good to me, and not too complicated either
[21:14] <ubuntujenkins> I can do gui, not sure i understand what bit needs to be clicked, do we need an extra window or just a button?
[21:14] <Red_HamsterX> Probably just a listbox or report view.
[21:14] <Red_HamsterX> With three states for each program/screenshot.
[21:15] <Red_HamsterX> "incomplete", "pending approval", and "complete".
[21:15] <ubuntujenkins> my programming before this was the odd bit of bash /sh scripting so the tecnical stuff goes over my head at times. I only joined as a tester but this is fun
[21:15] <ubuntujenkins> could it be added to the current screenshot window?
[21:16] <ubuntujenkins> *description window
[21:16] <titeuf_87> I would have a combobox to select the language, and when you select a language show that listbox correctly filled in
[21:16] <titeuf_87> yeah, I would remove the second combobox from there and put in that listbox instead
[21:17] <titeuf_87> then the user can click on a screenshot in the list and click on next to take it
[21:17] <Red_HamsterX> Either that or prompt the user for a language and access credentials (to avoid exposing the upload-server) on startup.
[21:17] <ubuntujenkins> the language can only be set for windows only the user has to log out and back in to do screenshots in other languages
[21:17] <Red_HamsterX> Users would only be capping a single language at a time, right?
[21:17] <Red_HamsterX> Language could probably be gathered from locale settings.
[21:18] <ubuntujenkins> yes but it is possible to launch windows in other langauges i used firefox in german the other day
[21:18] <Red_HamsterX> That sounds error-prone...
[21:18] <ubuntujenkins> it can be gatthered from local settings I have a list of language coes but I haev misplaced it
[21:18] <godbyk> EmperorDutchie?
[21:18] <godbyk> How do I get a promotion like that?
[21:18] <EmperorDutchie> godbyk: small joke in #ubuntu-uk :)
[21:19] <godbyk> :)
[21:19] <godbyk> I thought you lot had kings and queens.
[21:19]  * ubuntujenkins looks
[21:20] <ubuntujenkins> we could if we had time get quickshot to launch a program in another language this " LANG=fr_CA.utf8 cheese"  is an example of how to do it
[21:21] <Red_HamsterX> Yeah. Just export over the environment variables.
[21:22] <Red_HamsterX> But the problem is that X, and everything dependent on it, runs in a higher-level process.
[21:22] <ubuntujenkins> It would be safer to get the user to change their language themselves, the original thinking was that doing LANG=fr_CA.utf8 cheese menat the user could still log out easily. I struggled to log out in arabic the other day :-)
[21:22] <Red_HamsterX> So it'd fail for full-screen things and things that makes calls to non-child processes.
[21:23] <ubuntujenkins> yea it would fail for full screens but I am not sure there are many of them
[21:24] <titeuf_87> maybe best then to keep it simple and before making the new user ask for the language to use?
[21:24] <ubuntujenkins> I do agree it only there if we have time.
[21:25] <Red_HamsterX> Wow. ReactOS still isn't dead.
[21:26] <ubuntujenkins> Ok I will change the combobox to a list box sometime this week
[21:26] <komsas> who is responsible for writing manual in single style?
[21:27] <dutchie> komsas: the editors
[21:27] <ubuntujenkins> Is react os linux with a lot of wine use Red_HamsterX?
[21:28] <komsas> mm.. where I can find there names (nicks) ?
[21:28] <Red_HamsterX> No, it is not.
[21:28] <dutchie> in the editors section of the credits
[21:28] <Red_HamsterX> It's an attempt at reimplementing all of Windows natively.
[21:28] <Red_HamsterX> I figured it died, though.
[21:29] <Red_HamsterX> 'Cause I hadn't heard anything in years.
[21:29] <ubuntujenkins> wow I will have a look out of interest
[21:29] <titeuf_87> looking at their screenshots, they seem to have made a lot of progress since last time I checked
[21:30] <Red_HamsterX> Yeah.
[21:30] <Red_HamsterX> Of course, I have no reason ot use Windows, so I don't really care, but it's impressive all the same.
[21:31] <ubuntujenkins> Its always interesting none the less
[21:32] <komsas> dutchie: so if someone ask who is responsible for lithuanian translation you will show credits? Translators section is big in credits.
[21:32] <dutchie> you mean listing translators by language?
[21:33] <komsas> why not ;)
[21:33] <dutchie> it'd take up a lot of room
[21:33] <titeuf_87> Red_HamsterX, once your server implements the retrieving of screenshot lists, you'll let me know? I'll add it to quickshot's interface then together with the uploading of new ones
[21:34] <ubuntujenkins> but can't we have it in the langauage of that manual anyway dutchie? A page will not do much harm
[21:34] <dutchie> that'd be something for godbyk
[21:34]  * godbyk looks up
[21:34] <komsas> dutchie: so throw out all lisence ;))
[21:35] <dutchie> komsas: legal obligations :/
[21:35] <godbyk> One of the things I was thinking about doing was adding a colophon at the end of the manual.
[21:36] <Red_HamsterX> titeuf_87, of course. I'll be working on that next.
[21:36] <godbyk> I have thought it through completely yet, so I don't know if it'd work well, ...
[21:36] <godbyk> ... but it would contain the typefaces used and the translators who contributed to that particular translation.
[21:36] <titeuf_87> ok, thanks! I'm off to sleep, night all
[21:36] <Red_HamsterX> titeuf_87, I'll probably be implementing a stub for now, though. It won't actually query anything; it'll just return data in a likely-to-never-be-changed manner so you can start parsing it.
[21:37] <titeuf_87> Red_HamsterX, sure that works :)
[21:37] <ubuntujenkins> night I am off to I am so tired
[21:37] <dutchie> godbyk: cool idea
[21:37] <ubuntujenkins> thanks as always people
[21:37] <dutchie> although I should imagine your todo list is quite long ;)
[21:38] <godbyk> yeah.  I think I can do the typeface part automatically. I'd have to have the translators translate the paragraph and give me a list of translator names, of course.
[21:38] <godbyk> dutchie: Yeah.. I'm making progress though.  I just pushed some code to handle the glossary.
[21:38] <dutchie> cool
[21:39] <dutchie> it works too :)
[21:39] <godbyk> There are a ton of commands/variations that can be used for the glossary.
[21:39] <komsas> how you will know who contributed translating manual?
[21:39] <godbyk> It's gonna be interesting to see how it work in practice.
[21:39] <dutchie> perhaps don't reference the glossary words in the glossary
[21:39] <godbyk> The translators will hate me. :-)
[21:39] <komsas> Yeee we will ! :D
[21:39] <dutchie> komsas: I think the idea is the translators provide a list
[21:40] <godbyk> Yeah, I'll probably take those out.  They were there for testing purposes before I added entries from the manual proper. :)
[21:40] <godbyk> komsas: The translators will have to add their names to a list or something.
[21:42] <komsas> who will check that this name did something? :)
[21:42] <godbyk> I'll leave that up to the translation teams to figure out.
[21:45] <komsas> I found that some buttons in the content began with the capital letters others are lowercase, do you know what is main style of buttons?
[21:46] <godbyk> Usually the first letter is capitalized.
[21:46] <komsas> on my keyboard all letters ar lowercase.
[21:47] <godbyk> Really? What kind of keyboard?
[21:47] <komsas> HP laptop
[21:47] <godbyk> Interesting. All the keyboards I've seen have uppercase letters.
[21:48] <komsas> take a look to content there are a lot of buttons with lowercase.
[21:48] <godbyk> komsas: yeah, I've noticed that. I think it should be \keystroke{Enter}, not \keystroke{enter}.
[21:49] <godbyk> Similarly, the \keystroke{down arrows} should just be "down arrows" (without the quotes).
[21:51] <IlyaHaykinson> godbyk: hm, i think \keystroke{Down Arrow} is fine.
[21:51] <komsas> so you prefer uppercase?
[21:52] <IlyaHaykinson> i would also agree with \keystroke{Enter}
[21:54] <IlyaHaykinson> godbyk: should we use the \glspl{} for every term?
[21:54] <godbyk> IlyaHaykinson: Sorry.. brain fart.. the example from the manual was \keystroke{arrow keys}, which should just be 'arrow keys' (no \keystroke).
[21:54] <IlyaHaykinson> i use \emph{term} for various terms here and there
[21:54] <godbyk> IlyaHaykinson: \keystroke{Down arrow} is fine.
[21:56]  * IlyaHaykinson just checked the GNOME documentation help. should be down arrow, all lowercase
[21:59] <c7p> hello
[21:59] <c7p> i have to translate a string like "click \button{forward} to continue"
[21:59] <c7p> should i translate forward or not
[21:59] <dutchie> yes
[21:59] <c7p> ok thx
[21:59] <dutchie> but not button
[22:00] <komsas> forward in uppercase?
[22:01] <c7p> no
[22:01] <c7p> i copy n paste the string above
[22:01] <c7p> another question
[22:02] <IlyaHaykinson> if it's translated in the interface
[22:02] <IlyaHaykinson> (it may be, right?)
[22:02] <c7p> i have the "\screenshotTODO{Installation: first installation screen}" string, i have to translate the period inside the '{ }' ?
[22:02] <dutchie> dunno, ask godbyk
[22:04] <c7p> i think this have to with quickshot (?)
[22:05] <dutchie> that command is just to fill in the space and flag that we need one
[22:06] <c7p> nice :)
[22:06] <godbyk> c7p: You don't have to translate the \screenshotTODO stuff at the moment.
[22:06] <godbyk> That's just to give us an idea of what screenshots we'll need.
[22:06] <godbyk> (We may have you translate the screenshot descriptions at some point a bit later, though.)
[22:07] <c7p> thx for the information
[22:51] <Red_HamsterX> Anyone have any experience traversing a bzr branch using bzrlib?


[09:44] <JadedJacob> how can i add programs to the program menu?
[09:45] <Soojin> system tools -> main menu
[09:53] <JadedJacob> Soojin,
[09:54] <JadedJacob> i've opened system tools, but there is no program called 'main menu'
[10:31] <niubbo> hy, i need help about starting graphic desktop using lubuntu 11.04
[10:31] <niubbo> i installed lubuntu11.04 on Panasonic Toughbook CF-T2
[10:35] <kvarley> niubbo: It should start automatically, are you on a terminal (text based) screen?
[10:38] <niubbo> it should start... it seems to start but stay 'freezed'. I can use terminal [alt +f1] to use terminal.
[10:40] <kvarley> niubbo: Ok, try logging into the terminal session.
[10:40] <kvarley> niubbo: And then try and do: startx
[10:40] <niubbo> done
[10:42] <niubbo> it exit with errors: (EE) VESA Kernel modesetting driver in use, refusing to load
[10:43] <niubbo> (EE) FBDEV(0): Specified depth(24) is greater than the fbbpp (1)
[10:43] <niubbo> (EE) Screen(s) found, but none have a usable configuration.
[10:44] <niubbo> what it means? the graphic driver is an Intel 82852/855GM
[10:48] <kvarley>  niubbo: I'm not sure but you will be able to research it online now you have the errors. Try looking on the ubuntuforums for help or just do a web search and see what comes up. Sorry I can't be of more help!
[10:50] <niubbo> ok, thank you.
[11:50] <Gabriel_Salles> Hi, I have a question. Where I can see the bugs reported to Lubuntu 11.10 and where I can report new ones??
[13:22] <mirkolub1104> Hello!!
[13:23] <mirkolub1104> nobody online?
[17:05] <Soojin> anyone have any idea on how to insert a 30min timer switch in this script http://forum.lxde.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1475&p=4062#p4097
[17:06] <ralph_> Hi, am I right in thinking Lubuntu only targets i386 and amd64 at the moment?  No ARM?
[17:17] <bioterror> ralphcor, no ARM atm.
[17:18] <bioterror> AMD64 is so new to be honest ;)
[17:19] <bioterror> I emailed to rasberry pi foundation months ago and asked for a board
[17:19] <bioterror> but they never really replied
[17:20] <bioterror> but sure you can run ARM ubuntu and install LXDE stuff
[17:20] <bioterror> that's what people have done with the phones
[17:21] <bioterror> grab the theme files from lubuntu site ;)
[17:30] <ralphcor> Ah, OK, interesting.  Didn't realise that was possible.  It was the RPi that brought be here, actually.  I know Ubuntu ditched the ARMv6 architecture support a while back so RPi's ARM11 isn't supported.
[17:30] <ralphcor> Whereas Debian and others continue to support it.
[17:35] <ralphcor> I was wondering how much that's a toolchain configuration thing and how much it's actually patches to the [L]ubuntu source.
[17:36] <ralphcor> It would otherwise seem Lubuntu is a good fit for the RPi and would introduce a lot of new home computer users to the Ubuntu family.
[17:48] <bioterror> Arch Linux has ARM too
[17:50] <ralphcor> Yeah, a friend's mucking around trying to get it running on an ARM netbook he has.
[17:51] <rafaellaguna> Soojin: I missed mentioning you Transset
[18:38] <Soojin> rafaellaguna:
 anyone have any idea on how to insert a 30min timer switch in this script http://forum.lxde.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1475&p=4062#p4097
[18:38] <Soojin> I know nothing about coding or scripting so i just wanna know where he should put things for it to switch it:)
[18:41] <ralphcor> Soojin: What's meant to happen after 30 minutes?
[18:42] <Soojin> just change wallpaper from a folder I have pointed it to
[22:01] <silverarrow> hi
[22:01] <silverarrow> does anyone know if it's possible to dowload a live transmission, from livestream.com?
[22:05] <bioterror> maybe he should start to read books instead of watching streams ;)
[22:06] <Soojin> joining, question, qutting
[22:06] <Soojin> over and over:)
[22:07] <bioterror> and questions only about watching videos :(


[06:56] <Burgundavia> mdke: you up?
[08:47] <mdke> Burgundavia: si
[08:47] <Burgundavia> mdke: have you followed this whole caroline ford thingy
[08:47] <Burgundavia> ?
[08:50] <mdke> Burgundavia: no, I know who she is, and have read some of her posts to the -uk mailing list, that's about all
[08:50] <Burgundavia> ok
[08:50] <Burgundavia> just wondered, as I ran into it via a wiki edit earlier
[08:50] <mdke> where can I find out what the "thingy" is?
[08:51] <Burgundavia> it was the mailing list post about "women and newbs"
[08:53] <mdke> which list?
[08:54] <mdke> I'll read in #ubuntu-uk
[08:55] <Madpilot> Burgundavia, to -sounder, or where?
[08:56] <Burgundavia> to -uk
[08:57] <Burgundavia> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-uk/2007-March/003698.html
[08:57] <Burgundavia> see that and the followups
[08:58] <mdke> weird thread
[08:58] <Burgundavia> yes, very wierd
[08:59] <Burgundavia> it is not quite ted walther offensive, but it poorly thought out
[08:59] <Burgundavia> a bit saddened that nobody stood up and said anything construction
[08:59] <Burgundavia> constructive
[08:59] <mdke> the list can be a bit odd sometimes
[08:24] <LaserJock> anybody remember how to do a right arrow in docbook?
[08:30] <jjesse> nope sorry
[08:53] <LaserJock> nixternal: pingy pingy
[09:06] <nixternal> pongy pongy
[09:08] <nixternal> LaserJock: ^^
[09:08] <LaserJock> nixternal: ok, working more on edubuntu-docs
[09:08] <LaserJock> we seem to be missing some image files
[09:09] <LaserJock> do you have access to the old svn repo they were using for the handbook?
[09:21] <nixternal> LaserJock: that would be HedgeMage that would have that
[09:21] <nixternal> it seems she removed the svn server from the public
[09:22] <LaserJock> nixternal: you never got the images though?
[09:22] <LaserJock> there are some, but not all
[09:24] <nixternal> LaserJock: I got all of the ones that were there
[09:24] <LaserJock> hmm
[09:25] <LaserJock> it seems like people were using the repo after we merged it into the doc team repo
[09:25] <nixternal> well, I tried to keep up on it
[09:25] <LaserJock> but then it disappeared
[09:25] <nixternal> that server was hosted at the same place that HedgeMage's blog is hosted
[09:26] <nixternal> svn.binaryredneck.net I believe
[09:26] <LaserJock> yeah, but it's down I think
[09:26] <LaserJock> I'll email her and see if I can get the missing ones
[09:27] <LaserJock> I just  wondered if you happened to have them
[09:28] <nixternal> can't say that I do
[09:30] <LaserJock> fine
[09:30] <LaserJock> lotta help you are ;-p
[09:34] <nixternal> hehe


[14:42] <Plagman> Hi.
[14:44] <Plagman> I'm looking for someone who knows anything about 107_fedora_dont_backfill_bg_none.patch
[14:44] <Plagman> I suspect it's only there to help with Xgl, which is largely unused nowadays
[14:44] <Plagman> Pretty much every driver provides its own texture_from_pixmap implementation
[14:45] <Plagman> This patches introduces graphical corruption with compositing enabled; we've had quite a bit of users complaining about it
[14:46] <Plagman> s/patches/patch
[14:46] <superm1> Plagman, I can't comment on the patch particularly, but the people who would be responding to it later would probably ask, we being Ubuntu users?
[14:47] <tjaalton> Plagman: it's still shipped by fedora, and was added to the package a long time ago, so no-one here knows the details why it was added
[14:48] <Plagman> we equals NVIDIA X driver team
[14:49] <Plagman> People like to say it's our bug as well. :/
[14:50] <tjaalton> Plagman: any way to reproduce with 177.80?
[14:50] <Plagman> sure
[14:50] <Plagman> you'll need a compositing manager running
[14:50] <tjaalton> check
[14:51] <Plagman> basically, any newly created window should briefly flash black
[14:51] <Plagman> (or random colorful corruption if you're using InitialPixmapPlacement=2)
[14:51] <Plagman> if you start firefox, you should get a black square before the first expose
[14:51] <superm1> i've seen that particularly with bigger windows like FF on my nvidia cards but never thought much of it
[14:52] <tjaalton> right, me too with FF
[14:52] <Plagman> people don't usually complain about it with default IPP settings
[14:52] <Plagman> but with InitialPixmapPlacement=2, the graphics memory isn't initialized so they get whatever was there at the time
[14:53] <Plagman> whereas the contents of the backing pixmap should really be initialized to whatever is behind it
[14:53] <Plagman> using that block that's removed by the patch I'm talking about
[14:54] <tjaalton> it was added to the fedora xserver version <IP_ADDRESS>-1
[14:54] <tjaalton> by krh
[14:55] <Plagman> oh, okay
[14:55] <Plagman> I'll just email him then
[14:56] <superm1> tjaalton, but it didn't actually land upstream?
[14:56] <tjaalton> superm1: nope
[14:56] <Plagman> of course not :/
[14:56] <Plagman> it removes functionality
[14:56] <Plagman> as I see it, it's mostly an ugly hack to make Xgl faster at the cost of correctness
[14:56] <tjaalton> actually, I did drop it from 2:1.2.0-3ubuntu1, but re-enabled because people complained about performance regressions
[14:57] <superm1> with what drivers did they see regressions?
[14:57] <tjaalton> heh, can't remember.. it was 1,5 years ago
[14:58] <tjaalton> and the changelog entry doesn't help either
[14:59] <tjaalton> munckfish: hey, the daily ps3 image doesn't work :)
[14:59] <superm1> perhaps it will be worthwhile to test via an SRU for regressions against a handful of drivers then after Gold
[15:00] <munckfish> tjaalton: the desktop one doesn't nope - I just tested it this weekend
[15:00] <munckfish> but the alternate one does
[15:00] <superm1> and if perfromance regressions are still present just drop the SRU.
[15:00] <tjaalton> munckfish: damn, another 2h download it is then :)
[15:00] <Plagman> I'll contact Kristian about the original intent of the patch and its meaningfulness as of today
[15:00] <munckfish> usplash is knackered for some reason and the desktop installer didn't have it disabled
[15:00] <munckfish> last time it was built
[15:00] <tjaalton> Plagman: that would help
[15:00] <Plagman> If we agree that it doesn't make sense to keep it, who do I copy here to make what you said happen?
[15:01] <tjaalton> munckfish: but shouldn't "install" run the text-mode installer?
[15:01] <munckfish> tjaalton: other than that once it's up and running it's really quite nice
[15:01] <munckfish> tjaalton: no it runs ubiquity I think
[15:01] <tjaalton> Plagman: me and bryce for instance
[15:01] <tjaalton> munckfish: bah
[15:02] <Plagman> sounds good
[15:02] <Plagman> thanks for the quick feedback
[15:02] <tjaalton> np
[15:19] <Plagman> damn, krh is off on vacation
[15:23] <tjaalton> you could try ajax then
[15:24] <Plagman> I guess I could
[15:28] <Plagman> I'm not really familiar with the Ubuntu release/update management process; even if this patch was proved to be harmful, would there be a realistic hope of the X server in final 8.10 not having it? Or maybe in a subsequent update? I realize it's pretty late for that right now.
[15:29] <tjaalton> no chance to get in the final release
[15:29] <tjaalton> but an update is possible if dropping it doesn't break anything
[15:31] <Plagman> I see.
[15:31] <tjaalton> afk for 4h ->
[16:03] <bryce> heya
[16:12] <Plagman> well, ajax doesn't want the patch gone
[16:13] <Plagman> apparently most drivers suffer from this
[16:14] <Plagman> it's not a performance problem on our side, though; we'll discuss options internally
[16:14] <Plagman> thanks for the help
[18:41] <jcristau> tjaalton: welcome :)
[21:56] <wgrant> Hrmm. X doesn't like having key repeat settings set with HAL managing devices.
[22:27] <tjaalton> jcristau: thanks :)


[14:41] <sde> I need to override the search domain set through DHCP, but of course resolv.conf is generated by NetworkManager from /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-eth0, which in turn is generated by cloud-init. Been digging, but can't get cloud-init to alter ifcfg-eth0.
[14:41] <sde> This on a Redhat image in AWS
[14:47] <rharper> I don't think the RedHat AWS image has cloud-init new enough to generate networking config; it's likely the ifcfg-eth0 is baked into the image as-is (dhcp on eth0 was a common default in cloud-images).    It may be possible to have a dhcp hook script which can append/prepend DNS settings
[14:49] <sde> The image I'm working on is using cloud-init 0.7.9, which seems to tie with the docs I was looking at that suggested this was possible, and at the top of the ifcfg-eth0 it states it was generated by cloud-init.
[14:50] <sde> I've tried putting in cloud.cfg -
[14:50] <sde> manage_resolv_conf: true  resolv_conf:   searchdomains:     - vpc01.grn.poc.tbaws.com   domain: vpc01.grn.poc.tbaws.com
[14:50] <sde> (mangled format in cut-n-paste, sorry)
[14:50] <rharper> Ah, 0.7.9 is new enough
[14:52] <rharper> it maybe that the fallback network configuration doesn't look at those cloud-configs;  would you be able to file a bug against cloud-init on launchpad with details? https://bugs.launchpad.net/cloud-init/+filebug
[14:54] <sde> Sure, I can do that. Have I got the settings in the right location and format through? I've never looked at cloud-init before today, and I got confused reading the docs about exactly where I should be putting things
[14:58] <rharper> sde: w.r.t format, not quite sure since your paste didn't have newlines.  but I suspect you want it to look something like: http://paste.ubuntu.com/25376871/
[15:00] <sde> Yes, that's exactly what I've got. Directly in cloud.cfg is the correct/acceptable location for that, rather than as a separate file under cloud.cfg.d/ ?
[15:11] <sde> Need to step away, but thanks for your assist, appreciate the time. I'll get that bug raised later. Thanks
[15:11] <smoser> rharper, wrt "what image for development release on ec2"
[15:11] <smoser>  http://paste.ubuntu.com/25376930/
[15:14] <rharper> ah, search by ami number
[16:03] <smoser> image status is https://github.com/smoser/talk-simplestreams/blob/master/bin/image-status
[16:45] <smoser> rharper, blackboxsw fyi, the instance-data roadmap entry
[16:45] <smoser>  https://trello.com/c/AYaCdQyT
[16:48] <rharper> k
[19:54] <blackboxsw> rharper: /smoser trial run  ipv6 from AWS metadata :) https://us-east-2.console.aws.amazon.com/ec2/v2/home?region=us-east-2#Instances:sort=desc:statusChecks
[19:54] <blackboxsw> oops
[19:54] <blackboxsw> http://paste.ubuntu.com/25378444/
[19:55] <blackboxsw> looks like generating the network V1 worked
[19:55] <blackboxsw> I'm throwing together some unit test coverage
[19:55] <blackboxsw> ehem, I mean I'm all TDD and must already have the unit tests around some place