[05:42] <kamilnadeem> Hi Everyone.
[06:56] <Tm_T> I'm currently doing 11.10 -> 12.04 upgrade
[06:57] <Tm_T> will report any conflicts
[08:36] <fredg-netrunner> Hi all
[08:37] <fredg-netrunner> I have some questions about the firefox-kde-support, is there someone here who can answer ?
[08:39] <starbuck> he fredg
[08:39] <fredg-netrunner> hi starbuck
[08:46] <clefebvre> hi fredg-netrunner, starbuck, Darkwing
[12:48] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[13:24] <jussi> agateau: ping
[13:24] <agateau> jussi: pong
[13:30] <rbelem> agateau, :-)
[13:30] <rbelem> agateau, the kcm filesharing is on the way
[13:31] <agateau> rbelem: I like the smiley, but I am not sure what it stands for...
[13:31] <rbelem> agateau, do you want take a look on it?
[13:31] <agateau> rbelem: sure
[13:32] <rbelem> agateau, but kdenetwork is in subversion, and it is a little bit hard to publish the changes
[13:33] <rbelem> agateau, i would like to move at least the filesharing stuff to git
[13:33] <agateau> rbelem:  damn those kdenetworkers
[13:33] <agateau> rbelem: you can use git-svn
[13:33] <rbelem> agateau, do you know who should i talk to move it to quickgit.kde.org?
[13:34] <rbelem> agateau, i'm using it right now
[13:34] <agateau> rbelem: moving kdenetwork to git, or just your part?
[13:35] <rbelem> agateau, just filesharing
[13:36] <agateau> rbelem: not sure the kde admins would agree on that: iirc all modules have moved at once in the past, but the best person to ask is Ben Cooksley (bcooksley on #kde-devel)
[13:37] <agateau> rbelem: if you want to share your work meanwhile, you can push your git-svn repo to some public git server (kde git developer scratch dir, github or gitorious)
[13:38] <rbelem> agateau, i will ping him
[13:38] <rbelem> agateau, what is the url for the kde git developer scratch dir?
[13:39] <agateau> rbelem: let me check
[13:41] <agateau> rbelem: http://community.kde.org/Sysadmin/GitKdeOrgManual#Personal_scratch_repositories
[13:41] <rbelem> agateau, nice :-)
[13:41] <rbelem> thanks agateau
[13:42] <rbelem> agateau, i will push the changes in some minutes
[13:42] <rbelem> agateau, then i ping you
[13:42] <agateau> rbelem: ok
[13:46] <jussi> Quantal Quetzal!
[14:11] <ScottK> Need to get retesting on ISOs as they had to be respun.
[15:37] <Darkwing> agateau: ping
[15:37] <agateau> Darkwing: pong
[15:38] <Darkwing> agateau: care for a PM?
[15:38] <agateau> Darkwing: no problem
[15:48] <rbelem> /wc/win 29
[15:48] <rbelem> oops
[15:48] <rbelem> irssi cmd fail
[17:56] <claydoh> Riddell:  ScottK: re: minimum spec for Kubuntu: is 384 mb ram accurate? Do we need to bump that up perhaps?
[18:27] <rbelem> agateau, ping
[18:30] <rbelem> Riddell, ping
[18:33] <ScottK> claydoh: I suspect so, but I'm not sure how that's done officially.
[18:34] <claydoh> Schttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseNotes/Kubuntu#System_RequirementsottK:
[18:34] <claydoh> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseNotes/Kubuntu#System_Requirements
[18:34] <claydoh> that was a bad paste
[18:35] <claydoh> Who are the Kubuntu Active gurus?
[18:35] <yofel> rbelem and bulldog98
[18:36] <rbelem> claydoh, o/
[18:37] <bulldog98> yofel: ExoPc is supported, but multitouch does not work
[18:37] <bulldog98> s/is supported/works/
[18:38] <claydoh> rbelem: I am looking for features screenshots and some basic install info or urls :)
[18:38] <rbelem> claydoh, when is the deadline?
[18:39] <yofel> bulldog98: got the tapping issue worked out?
[18:39] <bulldog98> yofel: not really, me has to do lot of university stuff
[18:40] <claydoh> asap :) before release day, I don't need a lot of info, I need to be able to show it and describe it so I am looking for infos
[18:40] <claydoh> rbelem: hardware supported, etc
[18:41] <bulldog98> claydoh: rbelem has no hardware to test on
[18:41] <ScottK> claydoh: Could you join #ubuntu-release please?
[18:42] <claydoh> ScottK:  ok
[18:42] <bulldog98> claydoh: only hardware I tested is the ExoPc and multitouch doesnot work there
[18:42] <rbelem> claydoh, i provide some text and screenshots only around 1:00 am UTC
[18:42] <rbelem> * i can
[18:44] <claydoh> rbelem: its ok, I am looking on my own as well, I am working at that time
[18:50] <claydoh> rbelem: I am working odd shifts lately, I think I will ask questions if I need any claifications perhaps
[18:50] <rbelem> claydoh, :-D
[18:50] <rbelem> claydoh, oki
[18:51] <rbelem> agateau, afiestas, filesharing is in kde:scratch/belem/filesharing
[19:05] <ScottK> claydoh: You probably ought to hang out in #ubuntu-release so you'll know if anything else of interest comes up.
[19:06] <claydoh> ScottK:  ok
[19:18] <Riddell> good evening
[19:18] <Riddell> did you miss me?
[19:22] <vprints> in a good way
[19:23] <Riddell> claydoh: you're doing a release announcement?
[19:24] <claydoh> Riddell: I am working on them,
[19:25] <claydoh> dang I really wanted 12.10 to be Quantitative Quahog
[19:26] <jussi> I was so waiting for Quality Quokka :P
[19:28] <Riddell> claydoh: great thanks
[19:28] <Riddell> what is it?
[19:29] <claydoh> Riddell: Quantal Quetzal
[19:29] <Riddell> oh of course, one of them, I should have guessed
[21:42] <mikecb> there's going to be lots of q.q jokes


[00:10] <RAOF> Dear pulseaudio.  When I ask you for debug output, I'd ideally like it on stdout, not stderr.  kthxbye.
[00:12] <slangasek> is that conventional?
[00:13] <RAOF> I'd generally expect "pulseaudio -vvv | tee ~/pulselog" to have some output in ~/pulselog, yes.
[00:13] <seb128> wrong expectation then
[00:14] <RAOF> Maybe I don't do this often enough, then.
[00:15] <LaserJock> debug output is generally considered error output isn't it?
[00:16] <slangasek> I would be inclined to expect it on stderr, myself
[00:18] <RAOF> Hm.  My expectations are obvously wrong, then.
[00:34] <LaserJock> RAOF: don't worry, I always expect | to catch stderr :-)
[00:43] <seb128> NCommander: oh, you are there
[00:44] <seb128> NCommander: I though you didn't manage to reboot ;-) did you read my comments about the gtkmm update before?
[00:47] <slangasek> asac: is bug #229745 still in progress?
[00:49] <seb128> NCommander: the configure.in requires new libglib, libgtk, etc versions and you didn't upgrade the build-depends
[00:49] <seb128> anyway time to go to bed, you can work on fixing that until tomorrow ;-)
[01:15] <kees> asac: so, I'm still trying to figure out why n-m tries to DHCP for me.  Everything in /etc/network/interfaces is static.
[01:18] <nxvl> slangasek: are you planning the archive changes already?
[01:18] <slangasek> "the archive changes"?
[01:19] <nxvl> maving it from main/universe to seeds
[01:19] <nxvl> as in team specific seeds
[01:19] <slangasek> I haven't been directly involved in that transition
[01:20] <TheMuso> nxvl: Thats a long way off yet I believe.
[01:20] <nxvl> TheMuso: yeah, me too, just making sure
[01:20] <nxvl> but it's going to be a jaunty goal to move everything to bzr, right?
[01:21] <slangasek> that's been stated, yes
[02:50] <slangasek> bryce: ok, so I've added a 'USA' layout to my keyboard preferences, but I don't see anywhere in here that will let me /switch/ to it...
[02:50] <slangasek> oh, apparently if I drag and drop so that USA ends up as the default, it'll switch for me :P
[02:50] <bryce> ah
[02:51] <slangasek> Fn+F2 still gives me XF86AudioMute, tho
[02:51] <persia> slangasek: You've clearly been using unintuitive interfaces for too long :)
[02:51] <slangasek> persia: hmm?
[02:51] <persia> slangasek: That you're looking for a widget to switch, rather than just dragging things about.
[02:52] <slangasek> persia: er, why in God's name should I have to /drag/ anything to express "I want to change the current setting"?
[02:52] <poolie> bryce, fwiw Fn-F2 for Lock does work
[02:52] <slangasek> the effect of dragging it appears to be to change the default
[02:52] <slangasek> I don't want to change the default, I want to change the current setting
[02:52] <poolie> Fn-F4 (sleep) says "action is forbidden on this computer"
[02:52] <poolie> Fn-F12 (hibernate) does nothing
[02:53]  * persia retreats from an indefensible position intended humourously
[02:53] <slangasek> persia: mmk :)
[02:54] <slangasek> persia: sorry, perhaps you should try taking a position that's more obviously a parody rather than one that looks congruent to the position held by real "usability" folks :)
[02:54] <ScottK-laptop> Isn't that parody almost by definition?
[02:54] <persia> Has it gotten to that point already?
[02:54]  * ScottK-laptop looks around for seele...
[02:54] <bryce> heh
[02:57] <slangasek> bryce: also, fwiw, I had the keymapping magically right itself before my last reboot; I don't know what I did to make that happen, but I can't reproduce the effect now
[02:59] <slangasek> mm, manually running setxkbmap -model evdev seems to fix the mapping per xev; why was that wrong?
[03:00] <bryce> hmmm
[03:01] <bryce> this sounds familiar
[03:01] <jcristau> slangasek: new xkb-data wants rules=evdev, instead of model=evdev, in order to unbreak stuff like jp106 and abnt2
[03:01] <jcristau> where 'new' is whatever version timo uploaded in the last few days
[03:01] <slangasek> well, so be it; but why do I have to specify anything manually, given that this is a fresh X session from this morning? :)
[03:01] <bryce> slangasek: so with the right mapping, does sleep work?
[03:02] <slangasek> bryce: no
[03:02] <bryce> what's the xev output now?
[03:02] <slangasek> hrm, /etc/default/console-setup is written out by gnome-keyboardboard-properties, I guess?
[03:02] <persia> jcristau: Really unbreak jp106, or just sorta unbreak it?
[03:03] <slangasek> now I have XKBMODEL="pc104", that doesn't really help much
[03:03]  * persia has been overriding with GNOME preferences since Dapper
[03:03] <jcristau> persia: make it possible to unbreak it
[03:03] <persia> OK :)
[03:03] <slangasek> bryce: XF86ScreenSaver
[03:03] <bryce> lol
[03:05] <slangasek> ?
[03:05] <slangasek> this is for Fn+F2, which is the lock icon, surely that's correct?
[03:10] <jcristau> slangasek: same keycode in both cases?
[03:10] <slangasek> I don't know, no one asked for that while it was still in my scrollback
[03:11] <bryce> slangasek: oh okay I assumed it was mapped to sleep
[03:11] <bryce> slangasek: does your sleep key work?
[03:11] <slangasek> I don't know, I'm not interested in sleeping? :)
[03:12] <slangasek> I believe I'm still running the kernel that the alpha-5 technical overview says will break on resume. :)
[03:12] <bryce> ah
[03:12] <bryce> hrmm
[03:13] <bryce> ok well I guess I've done as much as I can on this bug.  It's quite different from what I see on dell
[03:13] <bryce> and unfortunately I don't have a thinkpad
[03:14] <slangasek> well, I'm happy to test anything you want, or provide further debugging feedback
[03:14] <slangasek> I can even test sleep if necessary, but there's a general problem with the extra keys not being seen where they need to be, so I'd rather debug something with less destruction potential first
[03:16] <jcristau> slangasek: might be interesting to see the output of 'xkbcomp :0 -' in the broken case
[03:16] <RAOF> TheMuso: pulseaudio status report: 0.9.12/alsa-lib from your PPA/alsa-driver 1.1.18rc3 _still_ exhibit underruns.
[03:16] <poolie> bryce, still here?
[03:16] <bryce> poolie: yep
[03:16] <TheMuso> RAOF: Right.,
[03:16] <slangasek> jcristau: which broken case, the broken case where it sends the wrong keysyms, or the broken case where it sends the right ones but nothing picks them up the way it's supposed to?
[03:17] <poolie> bryce, on my x61s after rebooting (and getting past bug 263782)
[03:17] <TheMuso> RAOF: what part of alsa are you using that is 1.0.18rc3?
[03:17] <poolie> the sleep button says 'forbidden by policy' and the hibernate button does nothing
[03:17] <jcristau> slangasek: wrong keysyms
[03:17] <RAOF> TheMuso: alsa-driver.
[03:17] <poolie> hth
[03:17] <poolie> is there a bug i should subscribe to or something?
[03:17] <jcristau> slangasek: the other one involves gnomeish stuff, which i'd rather not look at ;)
[03:17] <TheMuso> RAOF: Right.
[03:17] <RAOF> TheMuso: As in; grab the alsa-source package, update to 1.1.18rc3, disable a patch or two, and run module-assistant :)
[03:18] <TheMuso> RAOF: Yep I know what you mean.
[03:18] <RAOF> Good.  Just in case there was some ambiguity; ALSA's crazy!
[03:18] <TheMuso> RAOF: I might take this to the pulseaudio guys then. I'm suspecting it may be alsa specific, but its better to be sure.
[03:21] <poolie> wow amazing, hibernate works!
[03:22] <slangasek> jcristau: http://people.ubuntu.com/~vorlon/xkbcomp-ftw.txt
[03:23] <slangasek> jcristau, bryce: re-selecting generic/evdev in gnome-keyboard-properties under 'layouts' is sufficient to recreate the b0rkage
[03:23] <TheMuso> RAOF: Are you RAOF if alsa-driver git fixes it, then we know where to start looking, and pick the commit we need and et it into the kernel.
[03:24] <slangasek> and setxkbmap -rules evdev clears it
[03:24] <TheMuso> RAOF: sorry started writing something, forgot to clear it. :)
[03:24] <RAOF> TheMuso: I am RAOF, yes.  And I'll pull alsa-driver git and module-assistant it.
[03:24] <jcristau> slangasek: yeah, that says 'key <I160> {         [   XF86AudioMute ] };
[03:24] <jcristau> '
[03:24] <TheMuso> RAOF: hehe
[03:24] <jcristau> which is, err, wrong
[03:25] <slangasek> jcristau: sure; it seems to get a total of 9 keys wrong, looking at the diff
[03:26] <bryce> poolie: interesting... sounds like you're seeing a completely different issue than everyone else
[03:28] <RAOF> TheMuso: Heh.  I've just browsed alsa-driver git.  Turns out, 1.0.18rc3 _is_ git head.
[03:29] <poolie> bryce, i filed bug 268823, hth
[03:29] <poolie> i'm pretty chuffed at least hibernate is working though
[03:29] <bryce> poolie: ok thanks
[03:29] <bryce> yeah neither sleep nor hibernate work for me
[03:31] <jcristau> slangasek: i think gnome-keyboard-properties shouldn't be allowed to set the model to evdev anymore.. not sure how that's been handled
[03:32] <slangasek> jcristau: well, it's changing the 'rules' that clears the breakage, not the 'model', does that make sense then?
[03:32] <NCommander> hey TheMuso, I'm working on fixing a PPC specific issue in hardy (the changes are in proposed, just waiting for an archive admin to approve it to proposed)
[03:33] <jcristau> slangasek: aiui, the broken state is with rules=base, model=evdev, and setting the rules to evdev fixes it. is that right?
 jcristau, bryce: re-selecting generic/evdev in gnome-keyboard-properties under 'layouts' is sufficient to recreate the b0rkage
 and setxkbmap -rules evdev clears it
[03:34] <bryce> is gnome-keyboard-properties forcing rules=base?
[03:39] <TheMuso> RAOF: bummer!
[03:40] <RAOF> TheMuso: There's possibly one interesting commit in alsa-lib after the patches you've applied to .17a, but 0.9.12 doesn't seem to check for the availability of the new API, so it's probably not going to do anything.
[03:41] <TheMuso> RAOF: What commit is interesting?
[03:42] <RAOF> TheMuso: The one just before 1.0.18rc3; adding snd_pcm_avail and snd_pcm_avail_delay; I only notice these because I seem to recall Lennart complaining about the lack of that API.
[03:43] <TheMuso> RAOF: Oh they are not in my alsa-lib package, because that introduces new symbols, and I thought it may be better staying away from that. I can drop that commit in my package if you like. Added to that, I'd say the next version of pulse may use that.
[03:44] <RAOF> Yeah.  The next version may well, but it doesn't seem that pulseaudio git is using it yet.
[03:44] <TheMuso> RAOF: And if I was to add that, I may as well move alsa-lib to 1.0.18rc3.
[03:44] <RAOF> Right.
[03:45] <TheMuso> Next cycle, I plan top get a better handle on the kernel side of things also. Its taken me a little while to get going with audio stuff, but I feel I'm almost on top of everything.
[03:47] <bryce> slangasek: hmm, setting my layout to dvorak and back to us isn't breaking for me
[03:48] <RAOF> TheMuso: Yay!
[03:48] <jcristau> slangasek: can't reproduce your broken keymap by playing with setxkbmap here. will try to look again tomorrow. xkb makes me sad.
[03:48] <bryce> and for me, input.xkb.rules = 'base'  (string)
[03:49] <bryce> although oddly  lshal | grep xkb still shows layout='us' even when it's set to dvorak
[03:50] <jcristau> bryce: hal just has the default stuff for when the device is added to x
[03:50] <jcristau> so, that's everything but odd
[03:50] <bryce> oh
[03:51] <bryce> jcristau: is there a cmdline tool to see what the rules are currently set to?
[03:51] <jcristau> xprop -root _XKB_RULES_NAMES, or setxkbmap -print, assuming gnome sets that (i have no idea whether it does)
[03:53] <bryce> yep looks like it does
[03:53] <bryce> _XKB_RULES_NAMES(STRING) = "base", "evdev", "us,us", ",dvorak", "grp:alts_toggle"
[04:06] <slangasek> bryce: _XKB_RULES_NAMES(STRING) = "evdev", "evdev", "us", "dvorak", "lv3:ralt_switch,grp:alts_toggle,altwin:menu,compose:rwin,compose:ralt"
[04:07] <bryce> slangasek: that is with it working properly or brokenly?
[04:08] <slangasek> bryce: that's with the wrong keysym being generated
[04:08] <bryce> hmm
[04:08] <slangasek> and there's no difference after I run setxkbmap -rules evdev
[04:10] <bryce> ok, but running that fixed it last time?
[04:10] <slangasek> it still fixes the xev output
[04:11] <slangasek> but it appears not to affect the xprop value
[04:11] <bryce> gahh
[04:23] <bryce> brb
[04:54] <ScottK-laptop> slangasek: If you're still up and about, I'd appreciate it if you'd accept the kdenetwork in hardy-backports.
[05:31] <tjaalton> slangasek: you have all the latest updates, meaning that gnome-settings-daemon no longer forces model=evdev?
[05:45] <slangasek> tjaalton: it would be clearer if you would define "latest" in terms of package versions; I have 2.3.92-0ubuntu3
[05:46] <slangasek> er, 2.23.92-0ubuntu3
[05:46] <tjaalton> slangasek: yeah, sorry. that's recent enough :)
[05:48] <slangasek> tjaalton: it does appear, however, that this version only became available today, and that I downloaded it this afternoon, after my last restart
[05:48] <slangasek> tjaalton: so did -0ubuntu2 still have the problem?
[05:48] <tjaalton> slangasek: ubuntu2 was the one that no longer forced it
[05:48] <slangasek> ok
[05:48] <slangasek> then I've had that installed since before my last reboot
[05:50] <tjaalton> yeah
[06:14] <slangasek> ScottK-laptop: done
[06:29] <slangasek> asac: how do I get NM 0.7 to not stomp on my domain search preferences as configured in /etc/dhcp3/dhclient.conf and/or /etc/resolv.conf, without also having to hard-code a DNS server preference?
[06:43] <NCommander> slangasek, is there a reason you can't configure those settings in NM?
[06:56] <slangasek> NCommander: ?
[06:57] <RAOF> slangasek: I can't see a way myself, no.
[06:57] <NCommander> slangasek, WHy can't you set the domain search preference in NM?
[06:58] <NCommander> slangasek, it allows you to set it
[06:58] <slangasek> NCommander: are you looking at the same version of NM that I am?
[06:58] <NCommander> I dunno, how can I check?
[06:58] <RAOF> slangasek: You're asking for an option between "DHCP for everything" and "DHCP for IP only", right?
[06:58] <slangasek> NCommander: dpkg -l network-manager-gnome?
[06:58] <slangasek> RAOF: yes
[06:59] <RAOF> Yeah.  I can't find one.
[06:59]  * NCommander reread slangasek and realized the same
[06:59] <NCommander> ^question
[06:59] <slangasek> RAOF: really, I want a statically-configured search domain that never, ever gets touched regardless of which network connection is active
[07:00] <slangasek> but I would settle for being able to configure my domain search without having to statically configure DNS servers
[07:00] <NCommander> slangasek, where is NM's development?
[07:00] <NCommander> ^based
[07:00] <RAOF> I'm not even sure what the 'search domain' _is_ :)
[07:00] <NCommander> RAOF, a search domain is a domain that is automatically searched if there isn't an entry in the hosts file
[07:00] <NCommander> i.e., at my school, all computers are on rh.rit.edu
[07:01] <slangasek> the domain, or list of domains, configured with the 'search' option in /etc/resolv.conf
[07:01] <persia> RAOF: essentially let's you type "archive" and automatically get "archive.ubuntu.com" if you have it set.
[07:01] <NCommander> Normally if I want to access goober on my network, it needs to be goover.rh.rit.edu
[07:01] <RAOF> That's pretty cool.
[07:01] <NCommander> But if I was to set the domain to rit.edu, then I can type goover.rh
[07:01]  * RAOF now wants to set one!
[07:01] <persia> RAOF: Set lots, for extra fun :)
[07:01] <slangasek> RAOF: <boggle> hmm, now I have an inkling of why no one has complained about this missing feature before now :)
[07:02] <slangasek> NCommander: NM's development> in GNOME?
[07:02] <RAOF> NCommander: http://www.gnome.org/projects/NetworkManager/ if you want a url :)
[07:02] <persia> slangasek: I suspect most of those that use the feature have been the same set of people who routinely purged network-manager on install.
[07:02] <NCommander> persia, doesn't having a lot of search domains cause a lot of unnecessary DNS traffic since it will ping those DNS servers before checking the rest
[07:02] <slangasek> persia: all the other options for managing wireless on a laptop appear to suck at least as much, so I've been giving NM the benefit of the doubt :)
[07:03] <slangasek> persia: it /looks/ like NM 0.7 is good enough that I can finally have proper kerberos logins on my laptop
[07:03] <persia> NCommander: Well, depends on frequency of use of the domains.  At one nameless financial institution we used 14 search domains as a result of various mergers to support ease of access.
[07:03] <NCommander> i.e., if i had ubuntu.com in my search domains, and then I tried to go to say somesite.com, won't it try somesite.com.ubuntu.com first?
[07:03] <persia> slangasek: Yep.  NM 0.7 hit the threshold of usability, so now the hard bugs get exposed.
[07:03] <NCommander> slangasek, since I've been in a similar boat before I got my current router, I'll look into coding this feature for you :-)
[07:03]  * NCommander knows said pain
[07:04] <StevenK> NCommander: There's an option for that -- if the name contains more than n dots, it must be fully-qualified
[07:04] <slangasek> well, this is a laptop - it's going to be connected to lots of networks, all of which will have the wrong domain search
[07:05] <StevenK> slangasek: Why Kerberos on your laptop?
[07:05] <slangasek> because Kerberos is the One True Way
[07:05] <slangasek> obvi
[07:05] <persia> Actualy kerberos and reliable VPN on the laptop sounds like the right solution to lots of problems.
[07:05] <StevenK> You went to Stanford, didn't you!
[07:05] <StevenK> Didn't you!
[07:06] <slangasek> nope, Iowa State
[07:06]  * NCommander has used Kerberos with CVS
[07:06] <NCommander> God that hurt
[07:06] <slangasek> and we ran AFS and Kerberos at ISU too
[07:06] <NCommander> Kerberos is awesome ONCE you get it setup
[07:06] <NCommander> But it hurts getting it setup
[07:06] <StevenK> We were planning to use it at $OLD_WORK
[07:06] <StevenK> And then I left. So now I don't care.
[07:07] <NCommander> I got a crash course in kerberos adminning Windows Active Directory
[07:07] <NCommander> WEEEE
[07:08] <RAOF> Any protocol named after the three headed dog guarding the underworld has _got_ to be cool.
[07:08] <NCommander> slangasek, ping me tommorow or the day after, and I'll probably be able to tell you how much pain is in store for adding the necessary code to NM
[07:08] <slangasek> um
[07:09] <dholbach> good morning
[07:09] <RAOF> NCommander: Do you actually _sleep_?
[07:09]  * NCommander has quit IRC (This creature sleeps beyond the reach of time itself)
[07:10] <NCommander> :-)
[07:10] <RAOF> Heh.
[07:10] <NCommander> (ten geek points if you know the reference)
[07:10]  * RAOF doesn't think so.
[07:10] <slangasek> NCommander: John McCain's introduction at the RNC
[07:11] <NCommander> slangasek, O_o;, Uh, well, its actually from a 12 year old game
[07:11] <RAOF> That sounds right up my alley.
[07:11]  * StevenK tries to think what came out in 1996
[07:11] <NCommander> RAOF, super nes
[07:11] <NCommander> Hrm, it might be older
[07:11]  * NCommander checks a release date
[07:12]  * RAOF never had a snes.
[07:12] <NCommander> 1995
[07:12] <NCommander> so 13 years
[07:12] <RAOF> Or, in fact, _any_ console but an xbox.
[07:12]  * StevenK never had a SNES, either
[07:12] <NCommander> Had a rather bad PS2 port
[07:12]  * StevenK hugs his slimline PS2
[07:12] <NCommander> Geeze, you guys were deprived. Go play some final fantasy :-)
[07:13] <NCommander> (although this quote doesn't come from FF)
[07:13] <RAOF> Oooh, no, I lie!  I also have a gamecube!
[07:13] <RAOF> s/have/had/.
[07:13] <NCommander> Man, I didn't think the reference was that obscure
[07:13] <StevenK> Haha. Where did it go?
[07:13] <RAOF> It stayed in Hobart with my brother.
[07:13] <StevenK> Ah
[07:14] <RAOF> Actually, I think one of my friends has it at the moment.
[07:14] <NCommander> anyway, the quote is from Chrono Trigger (1995 - Squaresoft)
[07:14]  * RAOF remembers final fantasy: crystal chronicals as surprisingly fun multiplayer
[07:14] <StevenK> Brotherhood of the travelling gamecube?
[07:14]  * StevenK hides
[07:14]  * NCommander remembers as FF: CC as pain pure and simple
[07:14] <NCommander> And not the good pain
[07:16] <RAOF> Repetitve music attack!
[07:17] <NCommander> The only cool part in that game was when you traveled through mana gates
[07:17] <StevenK> RAOF: I thought was Tetris?
[07:17]  * NCommander loves Tetris
[07:17] <NCommander> My longest game lasted eight hours
[07:18] <NCommander> Damn cheap game boy batteries
[07:18] <slangasek> NCommander: I'm pretty sure all my memories of Chrono Trigger (which is still in the house here, somewhere) have been pushed aside by more arcane matters, sorry :)
[07:18] <NCommander> \o/ - slangasek + 10 geek points!
[07:18] <NCommander> (for having PLAYED chrono trigger)
[07:19] <NCommander> That game was awesome
[07:19] <slangasek> heh
[07:19] <NCommander> I plan to buy it when its released for the DS
[07:19] <NCommander> There goes another six months of my life
[07:19] <NCommander> (or one Ubuntu release cycle where I'm just going to probably be MIA)
[07:20] <NCommander> slangasek, the quote is near the end of the game when you get Epoch, and you turn off the Nu, and then try to talk to it, it says "This creature now sleeps beyond the reach of time itself."
[07:21] <superm1> NCommander, yeah that is one of my favorite games too. i look forward to it on DS as well.  it's a shame the sequel to chrono cross never materialized
[07:22] <NCommander> superm1, I didn't really care for chrono cross. Radient Dreamers which CC was based off was awesome though if you like those types of games
[07:24] <NCommander> One of the most anonying but favorite games of mine is Legend of Zelda Majora's Mask
[07:24] <superm1> oh very indeed that was an annoying game, i fear i ended up referring to some guides with what i was "supposed" eg what time to meet people
[07:25] <NCommander> Its one of the few games I couldn't beat without a guide
[07:25] <NCommander> Stone Tower was near impossible
[07:25] <superm1> yup
[07:25] <NCommander> Even with a guide, you have JUST enough time to get to the boss
[07:25] <NCommander> Still, that game screws with your head
[07:26] <TheMuso> NCommander: Just like ubuntu development does sometimes.
[07:26] <NCommander> TheMuso, I'm so screwed most of the time it makes sense
[07:27] <NCommander> Go having no social life
[07:27] <NCommander> (until I was 16)
[07:28] <NCommander> Twilight Princess was awesome, it does not have so much mind screwing as Majora's Mask which is why it once my second favorite
[07:28]  * NCommander wishs Riven was available for Linux
[07:35]  * NCommander finds the Song of Heading song for his cell phone
[07:37] <NCommander> er, HEALING
[07:43] <TheMuso> NCommander: I remember seeing somewhere that riven runs well under wine.
[07:44] <slangasek> tjaalton: so we established that I have the right version of gnome-settings-daemon... no other guesses? :)
[07:45] <NCommander> TheMuso, now I'd just have to find it, and then go insane trying to beat the fire marble puzzle
[07:46] <tjaalton> slangasek: so your keymap works otherwise, but not some of the special keys?
[07:47] <slangasek> tjaalton: yes; the basic 104/105 keys (depending on whether I'm plugged into the KVM) seem to work ok
[07:47] <NCommander> slangasek, https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+queue?queue_state=1&queue_text= - BTW, would you mind approving for -proposed the gnome-python-extras (it needs a binary only rebuild to resolve an issue on PPC)
[07:48] <tjaalton> slangasek: good to hear. I need to check if the mappings are 1:1 between the old and new method (kbd vs. evdev), seems that they are not
[07:48] <tjaalton> slangasek: and if true, it shouldn't be too hard to fix
[07:48] <slangasek> NCommander: not just now; I'll have a look at it Monday at the latest
[07:49] <NCommander> slangasek, cool, thank you
[07:49] <tjaalton> slangasek: do you know how the event flow worked on hardy? I don't know what role hal/gpm play in this
[07:50] <slangasek> tjaalton: gpm shouldn't play any role in the stuff I'm interested in
[07:51] <slangasek> tjaalton: I believe hal was involved and that something's gone askew in that regard in intrepid, but I don't know details
[07:53] <tjaalton> slangasek: btw, would you ack bug 268055 and bug 268071
[07:53] <tjaalton> :)
[07:54] <tjaalton> slangasek: ok, I'll take a look at hal. AIUI acpi-support should be obsolete, so it's a bit confusing to have it installed by default..
[07:54] <tjaalton> s/take/have/
[07:54] <slangasek> er, why do people keep asserting that it's obsolete?
[07:55] <slangasek> nothing else is handling my Fn+F5 (wireless toggle) key, and as far as I'm concerned, nothing else should be handling it
[07:55] <tjaalton> ok, so hal uses it?
[07:55] <slangasek> I don't know
[07:55] <tjaalton> so confusing..
[07:55] <slangasek> but acpi-support provides handling of certain acpi events directly
[07:55] <tjaalton> hm, ok
[07:56] <slangasek> events which I don't see any reason for hal to even touch
[07:56] <slangasek> why add 4 layers for events where 1 layer currently suffices?
[07:56] <slangasek> regarding the freeze exceptions, I don't have time to look at those tonight, I'll have a look in the morning
[07:57] <tjaalton> slangasek: could I poke someone else closer to my timezone?
[07:58] <slangasek> tjaalton: sure, I think every other member of the release team is closer to your timezone ;)
[07:58] <tjaalton> ah, lp shows a couple of candidates
[08:05] <TheMuso> tjaalton: Are those packages in a PPA? I'd like to try them. If so, which PPA?
[08:07] <tjaalton> TheMuso: synaptics is, xorg-server isn't since it wouldn't install (video drivers need to be rebuilt against it)
[08:08] <tjaalton> TheMuso: http://ppa.launchpad.net/tjaalton/ubuntu/pool/main/x/xfree86-driver-synaptics/
[08:08] <tjaalton> TheMuso: note that it's not the new 0.15.2 which was released yesterday
[08:10] <tjaalton> although it has two patches that are in .2
[08:12] <TheMuso> tjaalton: oh ok
[08:13] <TheMuso> I was interested in 0.15.2. Never mind then, I'll wait to see if it hits the repo any time soon.
[08:30] <lamont> ScottK: so on the script to un-chroot... do I have that one?
[08:33] <tjaalton> hrm, subversion backport in hardy is broken, can't check certificates and complains
[08:34] <tjaalton> ScottK-laptop: do you know about that ^^
[08:56] <pitti> Good morning
[08:56] <tkamppeter_> Riddell, hi
[08:56] <Martiini> pitti .. where do you live
[09:07] <tkamppeter> pitti, I have tried your D-Bus interface. From the command line it works as advertized as long as the driver is not already installed.
[09:08] <pitti> tkamppeter: right, if it is already installed it doesn't do anything
[09:09] <tkamppeter> With the driver installed I got bug 268649
[09:10] <pitti> tkamppeter: thanks, could be a timeout (will look late)
[09:10] <pitti> later
[09:10] <pitti> tkamppeter: that thing also still needs a progress dialog for "Searching for drivers..."
[09:10] <pitti> tkamppeter: it's just barely working now and needs bug fixes
[09:11] <tkamppeter> pitti, but now to a new, independent problem: I do not succed to trigger the driver download window when doing the DBUS call from a Python program.
[09:11] <tjaalton> ScottK-laptop: I think libneon needs a backport as well
[09:11] <tjaalton> ScottK-laptop: see debian bug 474139
[09:12] <tkamppeter> pitti, see http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/45673/
[09:13] <tkamppeter> This program actually makes Jockey running (one sees it in the output of "top"), but the Jocky window does not open.
[09:13] <tkamppeter> pitti, splix is not installed on my box.
[09:15] <tkamppeter> Riddell, I want to know, how you made Qt/KDE outputting PDF when one sends a print job to CUPS. It is for a general documentation on how to make a system using the PDF printing workflow.
[09:17] <pitti> tkamppeter: do you get a crash report for it?
[09:18] <pitti> tkamppeter: or does search_driver() return normally? (you don't print its result)
[09:18] <tkamppeter> The small Python program does not cause a crash report.
[09:18] <pitti> tkamppeter: or, rather, crash report -> exception message
[09:18] <pitti> tkamppeter: (since you catch DBusErrors)
[09:19] <tkamppeter> The program does not raise an exception. It prints the "Done." and not the "D-Bus Error".
[09:20] <pitti> tkamppeter: ok, let's debug that in /msg
[09:24] <didrocks> hi everyone
[09:24] <didrocks> I removed a NBS (icedtea-java7-jre) recently
[09:25] <didrocks> is it possible to remove it from the archives (and from people.ubuntu.com)
[09:25] <didrocks> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS/icedtea-java7-jre
[09:32] <tjaalton> asac: what's up with urlclassifier3.sqlite, seems to grow at a fast rate for some users (on hardy)?
[09:34] <tjaalton> asac: ok, I see there are bugs about it..
[09:34] <tjaalton> user quota is 200MB, so ~50MB for that alone is a lot
[09:34] <dholbach> WTF... somebody tried to order an Acer laptop under my name?!
[09:35]  * dholbach just got a call, that address was incomplete
[09:38] <norsetto> anyone has a link explaining what is the plan for the xen kernel on intrepid?
[09:46] <wgrant> norsetto: domU is in the normal kernels, AFAIK. And dom0 support isn't planned, also AFAIK.
[09:46] <EruditeHermit> is it possible to report a bug for a PPA that contains packages that might enter intrepid?
[09:47] <wgrant> EruditeHermit: Only if an Ubuntu developer uploaded them to the PPA and explicitly says you're allowed to.
[09:47] <EruditeHermit> wgrant: if not, is there anything I can do?
[09:47] <norsetto> wgrant: ok thx, I guess that means that the dependency on the linux-xen meta package we have on hardy can be dropped for intrepid
[09:48] <EruditeHermit> wgrant: I reported it upstream but they won't fix it until the next release which will miss intrepid
[09:48] <wgrant> EruditeHermit: What makes you think it will be in Intrepid?
[09:49] <EruditeHermit> wgrant: OOo3
[09:49] <EruditeHermit> wgrant: I read in the forums it might make it
[09:50] <wgrant> calc: ^^
[09:50] <EruditeHermit> http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=93399
[09:53] <EruditeHermit> its late I have to sleep
[09:53] <EruditeHermit> perhaps I'll pursue it tomorrow
[09:54] <EruditeHermit> gnight
[09:54] <EruditeHermit> thanks wgrant
[09:56] <wgrant> Night EruditeHermit.
[10:05] <tjaalton> asac: forcing urlclassifier.updatecachemax for now, will have to do until the quota is something larger :)
[10:19] <asac> tjaalton: hmm
[10:20] <asac> good point
[10:55] <Riddell> mvo_: can you remember why we kept the KDE 3 version of dist upgrader available?  it's causing problems when it cycles through what can be run http://paste.ubuntu.com/45680/
[11:02] <tkamppeter> Riddell, I want to know, how you made Qt/KDE outputting PDF when one sends a print job to CUPS. It is for a general documentation on how to make a system using the PDF printing workflow.
[11:02] <mvo_> Riddell: I kept it under the (incorrect) assumption that we need it for people without kde4, but I think that is not true so feel free to bzr rm
[11:02] <mvo_> Riddell: also I thought I removed it from the list of modules that are tried
[11:02] <mvo_> Riddell: let me check
[11:04] <mvo_> Riddell: could I get the /var/log/dist-upgrade/main.log from this? I'm curious why it tries to load the KDE version (it should try, gtk, kde4 and text in this order)
[11:04] <Riddell> tkamppeter: it's explained here http://doc.trolltech.com/4.4/qprinter.html
[11:04] <Riddell> tkamppeter: "On X11, QPrinter uses the Common Unix Printing System (CUPS) or the standard Unix lpr utility to send PostScript or PDF output to the printer."
[11:05] <Riddell> tkamppeter: and this is what controls the output per application http://doc.trolltech.com/4.4/qprinter.html#setOutputFormat
[11:10] <tkamppeter> Riddell, does this mean that you have patched all applications adding a setOutputFormat(QPrinter::PdfFormat)?
[11:10] <Riddell> tkamppeter: no patch, it's what Qt does anyway, see this code http://paste.ubuntu.com/45717/
[11:11] <Riddell> so if CUPS is new enough Qt sets it to PDF
[11:11] <tseliot> pitti: what is "handler_id" that you pass update_driver_info_ui() in jockey-gtk?
[11:11]  * Riddell points apachelogger towards mvo_
[11:12] <tkamppeter> Riddell, so then in the upstream world Qt were the first ones to switch to the PDF printing workflow?
[11:12] <Riddell> tkamppeter: yes I believe so
[11:12] <ScottK> tjaalton: Thanks.
[11:13] <ScottK> lamont: Russell Cocker emailed it to you.
[11:13] <tkamppeter> Already before my Japanese co-workers finished the CUPS filters
[11:14] <pitti> tseliot: the string from handler.id(); it should be stored in the tree model, so that you get it in the event handler
[11:14] <pitti> tseliot: look at update_tree_model() in jockey-gtk
[11:16] <tseliot> pitti: can it be something like this? NVIDIA accelerated graphics driver (version 173)
[11:17] <pitti> tseliot: no, it's somethign like xorg:nvidia:173
[11:17] <tseliot> pitti: hmm
[11:17] <Riddell> mvo_: seems he doesn't have that log
[11:17] <pitti> tseliot: the return values of Backend.available()
[11:17] <pitti> tseliot: what you printed is Handler.name()
[11:18] <tseliot> pitti: ah, ok
[11:25] <mvo__> apachelogger: is that on a hardy->intrepid upgrade?
[11:26] <apachelogger> mvo: yes, hardy KDE 3 -> intrepid to be precise
[11:26] <tjaalton> pitti: btw, do you have time to ack bug 268055 and bug 268071?
[11:26] <mvo> apachelogger: and you have no /var/log/dist-upgrade/main.log when that fails?
[11:26] <tjaalton> xorg-server is holding back xorg
[11:28] <tjaalton> pitti: there's a newer synaptics upstream, which includes the two patches that my package has
[11:28] <tjaalton> hmm I mentioned that on the bug..
[11:31] <apachelogger> mvo: getting one right now
[11:33] <apachelogger> mvo: http://paste.ubuntu.com/45724/
[11:36] <mvo> apachelogger: thanks, I look into it
[11:37] <Riddell> mvo: it's probably in the way adept runs it
[11:38] <tjaalton> ScottK: I've built neon27 0.28-2 on hardy, and can't reproduce the problem with that, so svn should depend on that version
[11:39] <tjaalton> ScottK: ..once it's backported :)
[11:39] <ScottK> tjaalton: Thanks.
[11:39] <Riddell> mvo: yeah it is, we add  *proc << "--frontend" << "DistUpgradeViewKDE";
[11:39] <mvo> Riddell: oh, ok
[11:39] <mvo> Riddell: then I rename kde4 to kde and it should all be fine
[11:39] <Riddell> yep
[11:39] <mvo> thanks for clarifiying
[11:40] <broonie> Meh. Why is there nothing except git-am for  applying patch serieses?
[11:43] <mvo> Riddell: is it worth keepng distupgradeviewkde3 around for reference or is the kde4 version complete and good enough so that this is not needed?
[11:50] <james_w> pitti: Hey, I saw someone ask yesterday about consolekit 0.3. Are we pulling that in now? I found a couple of Fedora patches we need if not.
[11:50] <pitti> james_w: unless there is a particular need to upgrade and do a FFE, we wouldn't
[11:50] <pitti> james_w: what do we need it for?
[11:51] <james_w> pitti: for me it just includes the patches I'll pull in, so I'm just interested in saving work if we do go to 0.3
[11:51] <james_w> it sounds unlikely though, so I'll prepare a debdiff.
[11:52] <pitti> james_w: if 0.3 is by and large bug fixes, we can consider it; haven't looked at it at all
[11:52] <james_w> I haven't looked at it in that detail.
[11:54] <ScottK> tjaalton: From my reading of those bugs, the problems all occur with later versions of libneon than we have in Hardy.  I'm not sure I want to mess with it.  Did you have an actual problem with the hardy backport?  I also found http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=498351
[11:55] <james_w> http://gitweb.freedesktop.org/?p=ConsoleKit.git;a=blob;h=b60fff3f1f41b7daf17427e998a2868cf9303460;hb=f0fb2d1cfd0f0ea3ad922175e895a9e751498a03;f=NEWS
[11:55] <tjaalton> ScottK: the problem was with the subversion backport and current libneon
[11:55] <james_w> bit of a mix of fixes and new stuff
[11:55] <TheMuso> Is it just me, or is cdimage rather slow at the moment?
[11:55] <TheMuso> Accessing via http.
[11:56] <ScottK> tjaalton: Then I think you're having a different problem then the Debian bugs because those are all with later versions than we have in Intrepid even.
[11:56] <tjaalton> ScottK: but turns out that since RHEL5 has only 1.4.2 I need to back out the upgrade since using 1.5 also updates the local repo so 1.4 clients don't work anymore
[11:56] <ScottK> tjaalton: Yes, this is why the backport is important so that people who need access to 1.5 repos can get it.
[11:57] <Riddell> mvo: the qt 4 one is complete, no need for the old one
[11:57] <ScottK> tjaalton: I just woke up.  If you'd file a bug against hardy-backports, I'll look at it again later.
[11:57] <tjaalton> ScottK: that also means that I need to clear my own copy if I want to use RHEL5
[11:57] <tjaalton> ScottK: heh
[11:57] <TheMuso> hrm seems fine now.
[11:58] <tjaalton> ScottK: the error message I got was about the certificates, like on 474139
[11:58] <tjaalton> updating neon27 fixed that
[11:58] <ScottK> OK.  Please file the bug then.
[11:59] <tjaalton> ScottK: sure thing, thanks
[12:04] <tseliot> pitti: have a look at this: http://albertomilone.com/ubuntu/jockey/jockey-kde.png
[12:05] <pitti> tseliot: nice! (something went wrong with the "Install" keyboard accelerator)
[12:06] <tseliot> pitti: I'll look into it
[12:07] <Riddell> tseliot, pitti: Qt uses & as accelarator indicator, GTK uses _ so it gets interprited as a literal underscore (and an automatic accelarator added anyway)
[12:07] <pitti> ok, let's explain it here, was doing it in /msg
[12:07] <Riddell> replace("_","&") or the like is the way to go
[12:07] <pitti> Riddell, tseliot:
[12:07] <pitti> ui.py has all user visible strings
[12:07] <pitti> and uses _
[12:08] <pitti> and ui.py's _() method has a convert_keybindings argument which needs to be True for strings with accelerators
[12:08] <pitti> aah
[12:08] <pitti> Riddell, tseliot: kde/jockey-kde's convert_keybindings() is not really implemented
[12:08] <pitti> it needs to convert _ to & and __ to _
[12:09] <pitti> I did that so that we don't have to translate all those strings twice, when they only differ by _ vs. &
[12:09] <tseliot> pitti: ah, ok, I'll do complete that method then
[12:09] <pitti> tseliot: only gotcha is to not convert __ to &&
[12:10] <pitti> i. e. a simple .replace() isn't enough
[12:10] <tseliot> pitti: yes, I know
[12:10] <pitti> will probably become a regexp replace with look-ahead
[12:25] <tseliot> pitti: 'Turn o_ff Driver' i.e. 'Turn o&ff Driver' looks like this: http://albertomilone.com/ubuntu/jockey/jockey-kde1.png
[12:25] <tseliot> Riddel: any ideas on this ^^
[12:26] <pitti> hm, weird; code-wise it looks alright?
[12:27] <tseliot> pitti: yes, I made the program print the string, just to be sure
[12:30] <tseliot> pitti, Riddell: this works though: http://albertomilone.com/ubuntu/jockey/jockey-kde2.png
[12:31] <tseliot> why is 'Turn o&ff Driver' useless while 'Turn &off Driver' is not?
[12:32]  * tseliot > lunch. Bbl
[12:32]  * pitti lunches as well
[12:53] <Riddell> tseliot: maybe something else is already using the f accelarator?
[12:54] <Riddell> tseliot: you can just miss out the accelarator entirely and it usually picks something sensible
[13:10] <tseliot> Riddell: I don't know if something else is using the f accelarator (automatically?) it is possible though.
[13:10] <tseliot> pitti: would it be ok if I set 'Turn _off Driver' instead of 'Turn o_ff Driver' in ui.py?
[13:15] <soren> update-manager is not going to suggest upgrading to Intrepid for Hardy users is it?
[13:19] <persia> soren: It depends on whether they are LTS users or regular users.
[13:19] <wgrant> meta-release-lts != meta-release, so I presume not.
[13:19] <wgrant> persia: How is that defined?
[13:19] <soren> persia: And how do we tell the difference?
[13:19] <persia> wgrant: If someone upgraded to hardy from gutsy, I expect they are still tracking meta-release.
[13:19] <persia> For new installs, it's probably meta-release-lts
[13:20] <cjwatson> I didn't know update-manager tracked that
[13:20] <wgrant> I wasn't aware that it was set upon installation.
[13:20] <wgrant> But I guess that might make sense.
[13:20] <soren> My meta-release config says:
[13:20] <soren> URI = http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/meta-release
[13:20] <soren> URI_LTS = http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/meta-release-lts
[13:21] <soren> So if I were an "LTS user" both would point to -lts?
[13:21] <soren> persia: Or what are you saying exactly?
[13:21] <persia> soren: I'm a little confused.
[13:21] <mvo> soren: not by default
[13:21] <soren> join the club.
[13:21] <persia> I thought it tracked at install, but I could be mistaken.
[13:21] <pitti> tseliot: absolutely
[13:22] <mpt> tseliot, it should be "Off", not "off"
[13:22] <mpt> (regardless of access key)
[13:23] <tseliot> mpt: ok, I'll fix it. Thanks
[13:23] <mpt> oh, KDE version
[13:24] <mpt> Actually, I'm not sure of KDE capitalization rules
[13:24] <Riddell> I'd agree
[13:24] <tseliot> ok
[13:26] <mpt> ah yes, they're the same as for Gnome afaict
[13:26] <tseliot> mpt, Riddel: is there some document you can recommend me about capitalisation in uis?
[13:26] <tseliot> UIs
 is the relevant section of the draft KDE guidelines
[13:27] <tseliot> Riddell: I always forget the 2nd "l" in your name. I should use TAB to auto-complete your name
[13:27] <tseliot> mpt: thanks
[13:27] <mpt> It says that "Prepositions having less than five letters" should not be capitalized, and "Off" is a preposition, but in this particular label it's being used as an adverb rather than a preposition.
[13:27] <mpt> (Same with "Turn On".)
[13:27] <tseliot> ok
[13:33] <tseliot> Riddell: is there a way to make the UI adapt its size when the content of a label is changed and it's too long to fit in previously allocated space?
[13:33] <mpt> Hmm, KDE says "less than five letters", Gnome says "three or fewer letters" ... ooh, controversy ;-)
[13:36] <Riddell> tseliot: mm, it should do that magically
[13:37] <Riddell> tseliot: if a label is using word wrap somewhere in the layout that can confuse it, resize(self.sizeHint()) should work (but not when called in the same method as setting the new text)
[13:37] <mvo> funny that openusability uses colors to code "not started", .., "finished" - for me its difficult to see the difference between "not started" and "finished"  (the others are ok)
[13:46] <pitti> tkamppeter: cups uploaded to experimental and intrepid
[13:56] <kwwii> asac: in firefox the menubar takes the text color from the menu itself it seems...is there any way around that? ie is there some subclass that it uses which I could reference in a gtk theme?
[14:25]  * ogra remembers a quest from mdz ages ago to get netpbm out of main ...
[14:26] <ogra> mdz, is that still necessary ? i just noticed it gets puled in by recommends
[14:26] <ogra> *pulled
[14:30] <mdz> ogra: it has been a security nightmare
[14:30] <mdz> ogra: you can check with kees if that's still seen to be true
[14:30] <radix> Is there a way to subscribe to get notifications of all changes to a package?
[14:31] <ogra> kees, ping, whats your opinion on netpbm ... seems recommends pull it in again in intrepid
[14:31] <ogra> radix, easiest is to subscribe to $(release)-changes
[14:31] <radix> Ok, I guess i'll just have to do a bunch of filtering :)
[14:31] <ogra> but that shows all uploads indeed
[14:32] <ogra> beyond that i bet you can use LP :)
[14:33] <radix> yeah, I was wondering if LP would do it, but I couldn't find anything
[14:34] <jdstrand> ogra: well, I can answer that. it had 6 CVEs in 2005, 1 in 2006 and 1 in 2008. certainly not stellar
[14:34] <ogra> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/<packagename>
[14:35] <ogra> jdstrand, well, that sounds like we could keep it
[14:35] <jdstrand> (and 3 more from earlier years)
[14:36] <ogra> i just had that in the back of my head ... i thought it was licensing back then
[14:37] <jdstrand> don't remember...
[14:37] <ogra> predates your time i think
[14:38] <jdstrand> maybe by a bit, but I was certainly kickin back then :)
[14:38] <ogra> :)
[14:54] <ogra> seb128, do you have a bug open for "switxh user option is shown if fusa isnt installed" in the logout dialog ?
[14:55] <ogra> *switch even
[14:56] <seb128> ogra: switch user doesn't required fusa, it just calls gdmflexiserver which is a gdm thing
[14:56] <ronny> hi
[14:56] <ronny> managed to get a weird issue on my intrepid
[14:57] <ronny> after the last update, the up key is bound to making screenshoots instoead of up
[14:57] <ogra> seb128, well, i'd like to have the possibility to disable it in the dialog
[14:57] <tseliot> Riddell: sizeHint() doesn't seem to solve the problem here. If I use adjustSize() then the dialog grows vertically (but I want it to grow horizontally)
[14:58] <seb128> ogra: having a gconf key for that would probably be nice
[14:58] <ronny> however the key combination config says screenshoots are on the print key
[14:58] <ogra> seb128, ubuntu-mobile works somewhat similar to a live system with autologin through gdm and a fixed system user ... there is no account to switch to
[14:58] <ronny> any idea?
[14:58] <ogra> its currently greyed out by default though ... but somewhat makes no sense to be shown at all
[14:59] <tseliot> Riddell: for example, "This driver is installed and currently" in this screenshot is only part of the content of the label: http://albertomilone.com/ubuntu/jockey/jockey-kde.png
[15:01] <ronny> anyone?
[15:02] <tjaalton> ronny: upgrade again
[15:02] <Riddelll_> tseliot: are you calling it on the top widget or the label?
[15:02] <tseliot> Riddelll_: I tried both ways
[15:03] <ronny> tjaalton: no upgrades availiable ?!
[15:03] <Riddelll_> tseliot: are you calling it in the same method as where the text is set?  you typically have to call it after processEvents has happened
[15:03] <tjaalton> ronny: what mirror do you use?
[15:04] <ronny> de.archive.ubuntu.com
[15:04] <ronny> tjaalton: which one should i use?
[15:05] <tseliot> Riddelll_: the method which is connected to a signal (when an item is selected in the treeview) calls several methods, among which there are both the one which changes the label and sizeHint()
[15:05] <tjaalton> ronny: what version of xkb-data is installed?
[15:05] <tseliot> Riddelll_: otherwise I wouldn't know when to call sizeHint
[15:06] <Riddelll_> tseliot: I sometimes resort to a QTimer.singleShot
[15:06] <ronny> tjaalton: 1.3-2ubuntu2
[15:06] <tkamppeter> pitti, OK
[15:07] <tjaalton> ronny: and 'xprop -root |grep XKB', put it on pastebin.ubuntu.com
[15:07] <tseliot> Riddelll_: I do something like this: http://pastebin.com/d5aae5c7e
[15:09] <amitk> ouch... a recent intrepid upgrade leaves with no desktop - only my wallpaper and a mouse cursor. Any pointers to debugging?
[15:09] <amitk> /s/leaves/left me/
[15:10] <ronny> tjaalton: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/85014/
[15:10] <amitk> Xorg.0.log has messages regarding "AUDIT <timestamp...> X: client 4 rejected from local host
[15:10] <tkamppeter> pitti, I have seen the mail notification of the closing bug 263049
[15:11] <tjaalton> ronny: what about if you change the model to generic pc105?
[15:16] <ronny> tjaalton: now both entries are '"evdev", "pc105", "de", "", ""'
[15:16] <ronny> tjaalton: still no change on the breakage tho
[15:17] <jcristau> ronny: what keycode/keysym does xev report when you press up?
[15:19] <ronny> http://paste.pocoo.org/show/85015/
[15:19] <jcristau> ronny: i want the keypress, not keymapnotify
[15:19] <jcristau> if there is one, that is
[15:20] <kees> ogra: I'm against netpbm going into main -- there are already several image libraries that can be used instead.  (and it is still gettings CVEs opened against it)
[15:21] <mvo> ogra: what is pulling itin?
[15:21] <ronny> jcristau: cant see one, might have missed it somewhere, is there a sensuble way to filter?
[15:21] <ogra> kees, it *is* in main
[15:21] <ogra> mvo, groff for one
[15:21] <kees> ogra: arg, so it is.
[15:21] <ogra> mvo, and i just saw that there was an oversigth in a tuxpaint merge
[15:21] <ogra> i dont know how it got to main though
[15:22] <ogra> nobody filed a MIR since it was demoted
[15:22] <jcristau> ronny: not afaik
[15:23] <kees> well, it's been in main since dapper, so unless it's easy to remove from main, I guess leave it as it stands.
[15:23] <ronny> hmm, sems to work again
[15:24] <ronny> just had to kill x11 even more often
[15:24] <tjaalton> ronny: so you didn't restart your session in between?
[15:24] <ogra> kees, weird ... i'm pretty sure it was demoted in hoary or breezy
[15:25] <ronny> tjaalton: a few times
[15:25] <ronny> i just messed up somewhere in betwen
[15:26] <ronny> i just reconfigured everything again, killed x11 again, and this time it worked
[15:26] <ronny> thanks for the help
[15:26] <tseliot> Riddell: I have tried singleshot but it didn't work. I also tried to call sizeHint() when another button is clicked but nothing changes. The only solution is to resize the window manually...
[15:26] <tjaalton> ronny: no problem. if it breaks again, ask on #ubuntu-x
[15:27] <ronny> oh, ok
[15:27] <ronny> cu
[15:29] <cjwatson> kees,ogra: groff's build-dependency on netpbm predates Ubuntu, so netpbm will always have been in main, since long before we were doing MIRs
[15:29] <cjwatson> I'm certain that that build-dep was never broken
[15:32] <ogra> oh
[15:39] <amitk> seb128: I just upgraded by intrepid machine and a reboot later after typing my password I only get my wallpaper and mouse cursor, no session
[15:40] <seb128> amitk: is your lo interface correctly working?
[15:41] <amitk> seb128: yes. ping localhost works.
[15:41] <seb128> amitk: anything in .xsession-errors?
[15:42] <amitk> seb128: I saw something in Xorg.0.log "AUDIT <timestamp....> X: client 4 rejected from local host"
[15:44] <amitk> seb128: .xsession-errors: Unable to create /home/amit/.dbus/session-bus
[15:45] <seb128> amitk: is dbus-x11 installed?
[15:45] <amitk> seb128: yes
[15:47] <amitk> seb128: gnome-panel is not installed anymore
[15:58] <seb128> re
[15:59] <seb128> amit: seems to be a dbus issue
[16:02] <amitk> seb128: got my desktop back. The previous upgrade was a partial one and I didn't look carefully enough. But for some reason gnome-panel and related stuff was uninstalled. Reinstalling ubuntu-desktop fixes it.
[16:04] <seb128> amitk: ah good
[16:31] <mvo> amitk: oh? did you do a partial upgrade with update-manager?
[16:31] <amitk> mvo: yeah
[16:33] <mvo> amitk: and that removed ubuntu-desktop for you, hrm, that is bad
[16:34] <amitk> mvo: if /var/log/dist-upgrade helps, I can supply that
[16:56] <frafu> seb128: Hello, if I am correct, your are maintainer of gdm in ubuntu. If so, could you please have a look at https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdm/+bug/264834 ?   thanks.
[17:00] <seb128> frafu: I've no clue about a11y and gesture
[17:03] <frafu> All it takes, is to add a few lines to the AccessDwellMouseEvents file for gdm to recognize the two new gestures. The diff that I provided should add the necessary lines.
[17:05] <seb128> frafu: alright, will consider if for the next upload
[17:05] <frafu> seb128: thanks
[17:14] <dendrobates> cjwatson: is it possible to select and hide the server seed(Basic Ubuntu Server) in d-i?  I think having a tasksel task that needs to be selected is confusing.
[17:17] <tkamppeter> pitti. did you have a lokk at the Jockey/D-Bus issues?
[17:17] <pitti> tkamppeter: not yet, still having 6 parallel /queries and ongoing discussions; a bit crazy ATM, but I'll get to it, promised
[17:17] <pitti> tkamppeter: best is to file bugs and assign them to me
[17:17] <cjwatson> dendrobates: I think so, sure; I think I asked whether you wanted that to start with and you said no
[17:18] <cjwatson> dendrobates: can't do it now, but file me a bug on https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-cdimage/+filebug
[17:18] <cjwatson> dendrobates: I thought it was shown in order to make it easy to deselect it; it's selected by default
[17:19] <dendrobates> cjwatson: if I did, I was horribly confused, which is believable.  I'll submit the bug right away.   ta
[17:20] <Koon> slangasek: could you please have a look at bug 254434
[17:21] <Koon> slangasek: to be complete the fix needs a Replaces/Conflicts for libwbclient0 in samba
[17:21] <mathiaz> james_w: does bzr bd still support building from the working tree ?
[17:21] <james_w> mathiaz: yeah, it's the default
[17:22] <mathiaz> james_w: in intrepid bzr bd --help says that the working-tree has no effect
[17:22] <james_w> mathiaz: the option has no effect, as it's the default
[17:35] <asac> pitti: there? could you look at the firefox -3.0 bits in bin NEW?
[17:36] <pitti> asac: there yes, just having a load of about 4 :)
[17:36] <pitti> asac: enough to do it during my archive day tomorrow?
[17:36] <asac> pitti: sure
[17:36] <asac> pitti: since you already know most of the details
[17:51] <pitti> tseliot: merged jockey-generic to trunk and pushed
[17:51] <tseliot> pitti: ok, thanks
[18:25] <ScottK-laptop> bryce: Any chance you're ready to see displayconfig-gtk go away?   I think it's about to be the last remaining user of guidance-backends.
[18:26] <pitti> ScottK-laptop: you saw my FFE for moving jockey to x-kit?
[18:26] <ScottK-laptop> pitti: I did and I strongly endorsed it.
[18:26] <ScottK-laptop> pitti: I tried to approve it (forgot it was Main and not Universe).
[18:28] <bryce> ScottK-laptop: yeah I've actually got the change committed to our xorg git tree, but unfortunately there's also some changes checked in there that require the xserver 1.5.0 merge go in first, and that was waiting on a FFe last I looked
[18:29] <ScottK-laptop> bryce: Is there a bug then then I can add my "please let guidance-backends die" endorsement to?
[18:30] <bryce> no
[18:30] <tjaalton> well, there's bug 268055
[18:31] <bryce> yeah, indirectly getting that one approved would help unstick things
[18:32] <bryce> or I could just do a quickie xorg upload just with that one change
[18:32] <pitti> mpt, mvo: "I think the rosette ribbon icon, that Add/Remove Programs previously used..." -> do you happen to have an icon name for that?
[18:33] <ScottK-laptop> bryce: If you can do an upload that makes it OK for guidance-backends to go away, I'll buy you a beer | $BEVERAGEOFCHOICE then next time I see you.
[18:33] <tjaalton> bryce: noooo, don't give in :)
[18:33] <pitti> mpt: do you mean /usr/share/icons/hicolor/16x16/apps/application-supported.png ?
[18:33] <pitti> mpt: unfortunately it's too small, and only bitmap; I prefer SVG icons
[18:34] <bryce> tjaalton: it'd be a welcome respite from headbanging on keyboard mapping bugs ;-)
[18:34] <tjaalton> bryce: hehe
[18:34] <tjaalton> pitti: did you notice when I asked about that FFE bug (and bug 268071)?
[18:35] <pitti> tjaalton: sorry, too much stuff going on today
[18:35] <tjaalton> pitti: ok
[18:37] <pitti> tjaalton: commented
[18:38] <tjaalton> pitti: thanks. 0.15.1 is a bug fix release just like .2
[18:38] <pitti> tjaalton: no FF matter then
[18:39] <tjaalton> ok.. I thought all new upstream releases were
[18:39] <tjaalton> silly me :)
[18:39] <pitti> no, hasn't been like that for quite some time
[18:39] <pitti> tjaalton: don't worry, it's much better to be too cautious :)
[18:40] <tjaalton> pitti: excellent, I'll upload those asap then
[18:47] <tjaalton> pitti: another thing.. since we now rely on the evdev driver, I'd like to update the package to HEAD. includes bugfixes and properties support, bringing most of the features that -mouse had
[18:48] <tjaalton> pitti: mvo has been using a snapshot for some time now without a problem ;)
[18:48] <tjaalton> as have I
[18:50] <pitti> tjaalton: properties support> would missing it mean a regression from hardy?
[18:51] <tjaalton> pitti: well, it allows to set the options while the session is running..
[18:51] <pitti> tjaalton: like mouse speed, etc.?
[18:51] <tjaalton> so there's no need to edit an fdi fiel
[18:51] <tjaalton> -le
[18:51] <tjaalton> don't know about the speed
[18:51] <pitti> mouse speed setting with the gnome applet currently works for me
[18:51] <tjaalton> that would still work
[18:52] <slangasek> seb128: do you know if anything you've uploaded would explain the disappearance of bug #252174 in the timeframe indicated in the bug log?
[18:52] <pitti> tjaalton: if the chagnes are reasonably small and you tested them, please upload it now (right past an alpha)
[18:52] <mvo> tjaalton: evdev? yes, I use it daily still. works fine for me
[18:52] <tjaalton> pitti: I mean that it shouldn't cause regressions.. Right, will do
[18:53] <pitti> tjaalton: no, what I meant is, would the lack of properties support with the current version be a regression from hardy?
[18:53] <pitti> tjaalton: i. e. what kind of properties are we tlking about?
[18:55] <tjaalton> pitti: well, regression in the sense that currently it doesn't support some options that -mouse used to support, and backporting only those is more work
[18:56] <tjaalton> hmm, that sounds like I'm lazy ;)
[19:00] <pitti> tjaalton: oh, you mean options in xorg.conf?
[19:00] <pitti> tjaalton: ok, please go ahead then
[19:01] <pitti> tjaalton: we'll probably want the bug fixes anyway
[19:01] <tjaalton> pitti: yeah, for instance the one that after resume you might not have keyboard or mouse ;)
[19:02] <pitti> *shrug* who needs that...
[19:02] <tjaalton> heh :)
[19:02] <pitti> tjaalton: I got a shiny joystick yesterday :)
[19:02] <tjaalton> pitti: ooh, which one?
[19:02] <pitti> just a simple one, Thrustmaster
[19:02] <tjaalton> pitti: remember to paste the lshal output and file a bug, I need to add an fdi file anyway, at least for my logitech's
[19:03] <pitti> I discovered that current dosbox finally runs x-wing
[19:03] <pitti> :)
[19:03] <tjaalton> evdev doesn't necessarily handle them too well
[19:03] <pitti> and my old sidewinder (gameport) just doesn't work with inux
[19:03] <tjaalton> heh
[19:03] <pitti> tjaalton: well, I just need /dev/input/js0 for dosbox
[19:03] <pitti> tjaalton: and I tested it with a LInux game, too (SearchAndRescue), worked fine
[19:04] <pitti> tjaalton: I haven't tested the x input driver for it, though
[19:05] <tjaalton> just plug it in and see if every button and axis works
[19:08] <NCommander> slangasek, I looked at network applet, it doesn't seem SO hard to be able to allow you to set search domains
[19:24] <cjwatson> doko: have you noticed bug 247694?
[19:45] <tripwyre> Hi, can someone point me to a Kernel Module API reference or cookbook style reference?
[19:46] <Treenaks> tripwyre: http://www.amazon.com/Linux-Kernel-Development-Novell-Press/dp/0672327201
[19:46] <slangasek> mpt: I take issue with the phrasing "install and turn on" in reference to a driver :)
[19:47] <Treenaks> tripwyre: it might be a bit old in places (like any book about a moving target), but it's a good start
[19:49] <slangasek> mpt: how about "install and activate"?
[19:50] <pitti> slangasek: alternative proposals were "Engage!" and "Make it so"
[19:50] <slangasek> pitti: hahaha
[19:50] <slangasek> well, these are mostly video drivers, right?  So we could "main screen turn on"...
[19:51] <pitti> slangasek: no, we have wifi and printer drivers, too, for example
[19:51] <pitti> we had vmware, too
[19:51] <tripwyre> Treenaks: thanks, I expected something on the web.
[19:52] <Treenaks> tripwyre: you asked for a book :)
[19:52] <slangasek> "main screen turn on", "print screen turn on", "faithful without cable talking turn on"
[19:53] <pitti> slangasek: (FWIW, the current German translation in jockey for the previous "Enable" string is pretty much "Activate"
[19:56]  * slangasek thinks he deserves an honorary engrish degree for translating wifi as "faithful without cable talking"
[19:59] <Martiini> langasek ..
[19:59] <Martiini> steve langasek .. you tha man
[19:59] <Martiini> slangasek .. hello ..
[20:01] <sebner> slangasek: around?
[20:01] <Martiini> where is langasek from
[20:01] <Martiini> is he check
[20:01] <Martiini> czeckhoslovakian .. i mean
[20:02] <_MMA_> Czech or Slovak now. :)
[20:02] <_MMA_> (If I remember right)
[20:04] <Martiini> ok .. he isnt here apparently
[20:04] <sebner> so I missed him for 10 minutes :P
[20:04] <_MMA_> Martiini: He is.  I know .. I know how people use linux . but whenever i use linux on my laptop .. it pisses me off ..like flash not working on firefox 3 .. and .. kde4 not compatible with gnome ..  updates break system ..  etc etc .
[20:11] <Martiini> I bought sicpack of beer and its all gone .. haha
[20:12] <slangasek> Martiini: I'm of Czech descent; I'm from the US
[20:12] <slangasek> sebner: yo?
[20:13] <sebner> slangasek: you remember nfdump bug filed by you
[20:13] <sebner> +?
[20:13] <slangasek> sebner: yep
[20:13] <sebner> slangasek: I contaced DM and he'll upload a new version to fix the stripping issue but he is right when he says that the -dbg package isn't empty. ;)
[20:14] <Martiini> slangasek:  were you born in US
[20:14] <Martiini> does it mean your parents are form czeck and you were born in US
[20:14] <slangasek> sebner: it's empty in Ubuntu; not in Debian
[20:14] <slangasek> Martiini: yes, why?
[20:15] <sebner> slangasek: Why? I made a testbuild and it's apparently  *not* empty
[20:15] <Martiini> ok .. nice to make aquaintance
[20:15] <norsetto> does anyone know if zul is alive?
[20:15] <slangasek> sebner: well, I think I mentioned in the bug that it's probably an adverse interaction between the package's own dbg stripping, and the Ubuntu buildd handling of automatic dbgsym packages
[20:15] <LaserJock> norsetto: I sure hope so
[20:16] <slangasek> sebner: so you may need to install pkgbinarymangler to reproduce the rpoblem
[20:16] <slangasek> problem
[20:16] <Martiini> Can you guys kick debian people in the ass .. so debian based distros can overtake Apple and Microsoft dominated software market
[20:16] <sebner> slangasek: ah, I see
[20:16] <sebner> slangasek: btw, he introduced it to find/fix a bug
[20:17] <norsetto> LaserJock: I mean, alive in the metaphorical sense ;-) If he is around or on holidays or whatever
[20:17] <sebner> Martiini: lol
[20:18] <Martiini> i want to see EVERYONE use linux on their devices .. laptops, phones, servers
[20:19] <norsetto> Martiini: kitchen ovens, refigerators, food dispensers ...
[20:19] <ion_> I have OpenBSD on the router.
[20:19] <Martiini> yes .. .everything on this planeet shoud run linux ..
[20:20] <Martiini> we need touchscreen devices running linux .. not OSX
[20:20] <norsetto> I'm quite sure we will one day have software operated toilet seats too
[20:20] <Laney> norsetto: Imagine the core dumps...
[20:21] <norsetto> Laney: hehehe
[20:21] <Martiini> norsetto:  do they not have software operated toilets in japan
[20:21] <mathiaz> norsetto: zul is on vacation today - he should be back tomorrow.
[20:21] <slangasek> Martiini: so how did you come to ask if I was Czech?  Even some Czech people I've met didn't recognize my name as Czech without the diacritics. :)
[20:21] <norsetto> mathiaz: ah ok, thx!
[20:22] <Martiini> slangasek:   i dont know .. let me think
[20:23] <ion_> slangasek: How is it written correctly?
[20:23] <slangasek> ion_: Langášek
[20:23] <ion_> Alright
[20:24] <Martiini> slangasek:  I dont know how i thought you may b czeck .. heh .. maybe its on the internet somewher
[20:24] <slangasek> possible
[20:37] <Martiini> slangasek:  do you work in california somwhere
[20:38] <Martiini> i didnt realise its 9/11 today . .. ha
[20:38] <sebner> slangasek: if the empty dbg package acceptable since we'll fix the stripping issue which the next sync?
[20:43] <slangasek> sebner: yeah; I've questioned the legitimacy of the -dbg package existing at all in Debian, but that's not your problem :)
[20:43] <slangasek> Martiini: Oregon.
[20:44] <sebner> slangasek: fine :) I'll file a sync request then when debian package was uploaded. thx again for the hint :)
[20:54] <Ampelbein> hi... i guess somehow i managed to break the lemon-buildmachine with a package of mine. (https://edge.launchpad.net/+builds/lemon) Can someone look into this issue? its been ~4 hours now in this state. i'm sorry.
[20:55] <cjwatson> infinity: ^-
[20:55] <cjwatson> Ampelbein: the relevant people are all on European time this week due to a meeting, so it may take a little while
[20:56] <Ampelbein> ok. just wanted to say i'm really sorry. i don't know how this could have happened.
[20:56] <cjwatson> happens, don't worry too much about it
[21:11] <Martiini> slangasek:  hey .. when are yougoing to fix this major bug https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1
[21:13] <norsetto> Martiini: fixed already
[21:13] <Martiini> no its not
[21:13] <Martiini> I will finf you some statistics
[21:14] <norsetto> no need, I can see no microsoft in the market which is in front of my house every saturday
[21:15] <Martiini> norsetto:  how about this http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_os.asp
[21:16] <Martiini> yes.. but major software developers write software for windows not linux
[21:16] <Martiini> i get called a troll for raising this subject on linux forums  .. but I know im right
[21:18] <_MMA_> Martiini: This isn't the channel to raise it either as this is a development channel. Not general chat.
[21:22] <unfo> hi all, is there a ubuntu usability channel?
[21:23] <_MMA_> unfo: Good question. Maybe #ubuntu-desktop?
[21:23]  * _MMA_ looks for the IRC list.
[21:24] <_MMA_> unfo: This might be of some help: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InternetRelayChat#Channels
[21:28] <unfo> _MMA_: i see from your link and from googling there is no such channel but that #ubuntu-desktop is close.  Thanks for the link.
[21:29] <_MMA_> np
[21:36] <NCommander> jdong, for any backport I'm doing with source level changes should be uploaded to the PPA, right?
[21:46] <ScottK> NCommander: There's no requirement for that.  Debdiff in the bug is what we need.
[21:46] <NCommander> ScottK, the wiki seems to suggest otherwise
[21:46] <ScottK> Hmmm. OK.
[21:47] <NCommander> Its your call
[21:47] <NCommander> Since either you or jdong will be uploading
[21:48] <norsetto> NCommander: I don't think jdong can upload actually
[21:48] <NCommander> ScottK, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hardy-backports/+bug/267391 - upload please :-)
[21:49] <ScottK> NCommander: norsetto is right, because jdong is not core-dev.  I'm on my way out the door just now.  I'll add that with the Ada stuff to my stack.
[21:50]  * NCommander loves (ab)using ScottK for backports :-)
[21:50] <seb128> slangasek: do you think this gvfs bug is a high priority issue?
[21:50] <ScottK> NCommander: In the meantime, please look at amule and do an FFe for it.
[21:50] <NCommander> ScottK, amule? What's wrong with it
[21:51] <ScottK> NCommander: There's an open bug on it being outdated.  I didn't get to if before FF.
[21:51] <ScottK> It's in the bug.
[21:51] <slangasek> seb128: the gvfsd-trash crasher?
[21:51] <NCommander> ScottK, I'll ask SRU for the FFe first, and if its granted, then do the packaging
[21:52] <seb128> slangasek: yes, we mainly see crashes due to apport
[21:52] <ScottK> NCommander: You mean motu-release, right?
[21:52] <slangasek> seb128: well, we see a lot of them though - 93 duplicates...
[21:52] <NCommander> Oh, yeah
[21:52] <NCommander> d'oh
[21:52] <NCommander> :-P
[21:52] <slangasek> seb128: so if the bug still exists, I think it ought to be high-priority?
[21:52] <seb128> slangasek: I'm trying to push upstream to get it fixed for GNOME 2.24
[21:53] <slangasek> seb128: ok - has it been diagnosed then?
[21:53] <slangasek> the backtraces I saw didn't look meaningful
[21:53] <seb128> slangasek: it's not trivial to fix, it seems to be due because dbus is used in threads which is not a thing to do
[21:53] <norsetto> NCommander: you better do the packing first, we need build and install logs
[21:53] <slangasek> seb128: ah, doh
[21:54] <NCommander> Ah, thank you norsetto
[21:55] <norsetto> NCommander: just in case, since its your first FFe (I think): https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess
[22:11] <slangasek> seb128: what are the consequences of gvfsd-trash crashing, btw?  does it manage to respawn itself somehow after the crash?
[22:13] <seb128> slangasek: no consequence, so crash seem to be mostly at shutdown and showing up next time the users log in, and yes the gvfs services are automatically spawned when required
[22:14] <slangasek> seb128: ok, so effectively this is apport-generated noise more than anything
[22:15] <seb128> right, and I've added an apport bug pattern now
[22:15] <seb128> so it should stop duplicates
[22:15] <norsetto> seb128: is it normal that /usr/lib/gtk-2.0/modules/libferret.so is common between libgail-common and libgtk2.0-0 yet they do not conflict with each other?
[22:17] <seb128> norsetto: there is still a libgail in intrepid?
[22:17] <norsetto> seb128: apparently
[22:18] <norsetto> seb128: libgail-common |   1.22.3-1 | intrepid/universe | amd64, i386
[22:19] <seb128> norsetto: you can file a remove request, libgail is in gtk now
[22:20] <norsetto> seb128: makes sense, thx!
[22:25] <pochu> norsetto: it has rdepends, shouldn't those be rebuilt/whatever first?
[22:26] <norsetto> pochu: yes, I was checking that, glade has a depends on it and should be rebuild
[22:33] <seb128> NCommander: hi
[22:34] <NCommander> hey seb128
[22:34] <seb128> NCommander: did you read my comments about gtkmm yesterday? ;-)
[22:34] <NCommander> seb128, I have that odd feeling I had to do something for you
[22:34] <NCommander> seb128, Yup
[22:34] <NCommander> seb128, I remember now, sorry about that
[22:34] <seb128> NCommander: that's alright, no hurry ;-)
[22:34] <NCommander> seb128, I am rolling a debdiff now
[22:34]  * NCommander is having backporting fun
[22:40] <norsetto> seb128: libgail-gnome-module is not affected ?
[22:41] <seb128> norsetto: I didn't look at it in details but I think it's still useful
[22:41] <norsetto> seb128: ok, I'm asking since we need to rebuild glade and I see that its also quoted as a depends (as well as gail17 which should also obviously go)
[22:43] <seb128> norsetto: I'm surprised glade is buggy, mvo rebuilt it when the new gtk has been uploaded
[22:43] <norsetto> seb128: yes, but those depends are hard coded
[22:44] <norsetto> seb128: its the old glade (in universe) not glade-3
[22:51] <norsetto> seb128: unless you tell me that the glade in universe doesn't make any sense (it has two rdepends with are recommends, I can check if they can use glade-3 instead)
[22:53] <norsetto> 4 rdepends actually, still all recommends
[22:53] <seb128> norsetto: glade in universe has a sense, glade-3 has a different set of issues and some people still use the universe version
[22:54] <norsetto> seb128: ok, then I rebuild it without the harcoded depends and see if those 4 are broken by it or not
[22:57] <tseliot> seb128: I would like to talk to you about the g-c-p tomorrow, ok?
[23:01] <seb128> tseliot: what?
[23:01] <tseliot> seb128: about the gnome-control-panel
[23:01] <tseliot> s/panel/center
[23:01] <seb128> tseliot: tell now, I'll still be around for half an hour probably
[23:02] <seb128> I'm too tired to look at code changes but I'm fine discussing on IRC ;-)
[23:02] <tseliot> seb128: in my patch for gnome-desktop, the behaviour is preserved and the functions which were available before didn't change, at least not in their behaviour
[23:02] <tseliot> xrandr-capplet.c changed a bit but AFAIK is not meant to be used by anything else
[23:03] <tseliot> from what I remember I didn't break the ABI
[23:03] <seb128> tseliot: <tseliot> yes, that would be necessary as I had to move one function (to compute the virtual resolution) from the capplet to gnome_rr_config.c
[23:04] <tseliot> seb128: but xrandr-capplet.c doesn't even have a header file
[23:04] <seb128> tseliot: you are adding some non upstream api to libgnome-desktop apparently though, or I'm getting that incorrectly?
[23:04] <tseliot> seb128: yes
[23:05] <seb128> tseliot: if upstream comes with a similar function but change the name we either need to divert or to break api and abi then
[23:05] <seb128> if we drop the function you distro patched than an abi compatibility breakage
[23:06] <tseliot> seb128: I can talk to upstream. BTW Federico wants to include my work in opensuse.
[23:06] <tseliot> yes, I see your point
[23:07] <seb128> if you do an ubuntu specific api prefix the function name using ubuntu or protect it on UBUNTU_SPECIFIC defines or something
[23:07] <seb128> so it's clear it's not upstream and can break
[23:08] <seb128> but always a good idea to open bugs upstream about such changes too to get their opinion and let them know about the changes we do
[23:08] <tseliot> seb128: yes, sure I can do that.
[23:08] <seb128> tseliot: thanks, if you do that I'm fine with the changes
[23:09] <tseliot> seb128: the xrandr-capplet.c checks the existence of a python file which is specific to ubuntu (and soon to suse too)
[23:09] <tseliot> therefore I'll simply remove it
[23:09] <tseliot> and keep it as a patch
[23:09] <tseliot> would this be ok too?
[23:10] <tseliot> so that the rest can be accepted by upstream
[23:10] <seb128> tseliot: looks good yes
[23:10] <tseliot> and we only add that check
[23:10] <tseliot> seb128: ok, great. Are there any deadlines for this?
[23:10] <seb128> tseliot: upstream or in ubuntu?
[23:11] <tseliot> seb128: both
[23:11] <seb128> in ubuntu you still have some weeks to do changes
[23:11] <seb128> GNOME is code frozen next week until GNOME 2.24
[23:11] <lucas> mp
[23:11] <seb128> so GNOME changes are probably for either 2.24.1 or 2.25
[23:11] <lucas> rah
[23:11] <seb128> hey lucas
[23:12] <tseliot> seb128: ok, thanks for your time
[23:16] <seb128> tseliot: np, thanks for your work on those changes ;-)
[23:24] <norsetto> seb128: filed, should I subscribe ubuntu-archive or you want to have the honour?
[23:24] <seb128> norsetto: please subscribe the team
[23:24] <norsetto> seb128: okki dokki
[23:25] <seb128> norsetto: thanks
[23:25] <norsetto> seb128: thx to you, and good night
[23:25] <seb128> 'night
[23:59] <slangasek> augh, why are my volume up/down buttons on my keyboard adjusting a volume setting that's not reflected on the GNOME mixer applet?


[05:08] <N8Wulf> Gooood Morning
[05:28] <N8Wulf> anybody up yet?
[05:38] <N8Wulf> laat slapers
[05:51] <superfly> I was on the road, I'
[05:51] <superfly> *I'm at work now... N8Wulf
[05:54] <N8Wulf> Good morning. Good luck for the day
[05:55] <superfly> I don't believe in luck, but thanks for the well-wishing none-the-less
[05:55] <N8Wulf> :)
[05:55] <N8Wulf> not gonna bother you much, are you using Unity at the Mo?
[05:55] <superfly> nope, I'm a KDE boy
[05:56] <N8Wulf> lucky you
[05:56] <superfly> oh, and work only officially starts in about 35 minutes, so I got time to chat
[05:57] <superfly> yeah, when KDE4 came around a lot of people were not impressed
[05:57] <superfly> but I just saw that it was not ready for consumption, and they said as much, and so I just waited
[05:58] <superfly> it took up to about KDE 4.5 for KDE to really be as good as 3.5, but then 3.0 was not as good as 3.5 either, so how can we compare a x.0 with an x.5?
[09:51] <Kilos> morning superfly and others
[09:51] <superfly> hi Kilos
[10:38] <Kilos> hope i didnt mislead vincent
[10:38] <Kilos> hiya nlsthzn
[10:44] <nlsthzn> Hey Mr. Kilos :)
[11:29] <Squirm> hey
[11:30] <Kilos> hi Squirm
[11:30] <Squirm> anyone know of any shells hosted in South Africa?
[11:30] <Squirm> morning Kilos
[11:30] <Squirm> oh, Afternoon Kilos
[11:30] <Kilos> lol
[14:48] <Kilos> hmmm
[14:49] <Kilos> no one even thirsty today
[14:49] <Kilos> Maaz, coffee on
[14:49]  * Maaz puts the kettle on
[14:52] <Kilos> Maaz, move it
[14:52] <Maaz> Don't rush me Kilos . Making decent coffee is an art
[14:53] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for Kilos!
[14:54] <Kilos> Maaz, ty man
[14:54] <Maaz> Kilos: Sorry...
[14:54] <Kilos> grr
[14:54] <Squirm> 2
[14:54] <Kilos> Maaz, thanks man
[14:54] <Maaz> Kilos It gives me great pleasure to serve a bunch of geeks :-)
[14:54] <Squirm> +2
[14:54] <Squirm> =4
[14:54] <Squirm> ^^
[14:55] <Squirm> good day
[14:55] <Kilos> lol
[14:55] <Kilos> what you working out Squirm
[14:56] <Squirm> I meant to type /w 2 but I just type 2, so I made something up quickly :P
[14:56] <Kilos> hehe
[15:15] <Kilos> lo N8Wulf
[15:16]  * Kilos wishes some of the list peeps would come on here. then it doesnt take so long to get replies or more info
[15:27] <nlsthzn> :)
[16:28] <Kilos> lo Tonberry
[16:30] <Tonberry> hello
[16:39] <Kilos> many lurkers here today
[16:39] <Kilos> spose they will say they all very busy
[16:39] <Kilos> Maaz, coffee on
[16:39]  * Maaz starts grinding coffee
[16:40] <Kilos> Maaz, with milk
[16:40] <Maaz> Kilos: Sorry...
[16:40] <Kilos> grrr
[16:41] <Kilos> Maaz, with milk
[16:41] <Maaz> Yay Kilos You aren't one of those skinny guys that needs to drink black coffee to cast a shadow
[16:43] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for Kilos!
[16:43] <Kilos> Maaz, ty
[16:43] <Maaz> Enjoy Kilos
[17:21] <Squirm> evening
[17:53] <kbmonkey> evening Squirm
[18:29] <Kilos> lo frozty_sa
[18:30] <Kilos> cold enough for you?
[18:30] <kbmonkey> brrrrr
[18:30] <Kilos> hi kbmonkey
[18:30] <Kilos> -2 by you tonight
[18:34] <kbmonkey> no Kilos the toilet water hasn't frozen yet :D
[18:34] <nuvolari> o/
[18:34] <nuvolari> lo oom Kilos
[18:34] <Kilos> hehe
[18:35] <Kilos> lo nuvolari beter by julle vanaand
[18:35] <nuvolari> lo 'monkey
[18:35] <kbmonkey> check it out http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/linux-world-map.html
[18:35] <nuvolari> Kilos: hoe nou oom?
[18:35] <kbmonkey> lo nuvolari
[18:35] <nuvolari> dis steeds koel hierso
[18:36] <Kilos> dis 0 in pts en -2 in joburg en -4 vereeniging
[18:36] <nuvolari> bwhaha, excellent kbmonkey
[18:36] <nuvolari> o.O
[18:36] <nuvolari> sjoe
[18:36] <nuvolari> en hier oom Kilos ?
[18:37] <Kilos> ek het nie gekyk nie seun maar seker 12 of 14
[18:37] <Kilos> 10 is kwaai winter in durbs
[18:38] <nuvolari> ja... ek moet 'n baadjie dra
[18:38] <Kilos> lol
[18:38] <kbmonkey> -2 is _lekke_ koud!
[18:38] <Kilos> vrek koud
[18:39] <Kilos> hope superfly is ok. he been siek for too long now
[18:39] <superfly> more busy than sick right now
[18:40] <Kilos> and inetpro never ewven says hi anymore
[18:40] <Kilos> are you healed superfly
[18:40] <superfly> mostly
[18:41] <Kilos> which part isnt. if it a foot thats ok
[18:41] <superfly> my throat
[18:41] <Kilos> eish
[18:41] <kbmonkey> my foot has flu :p
[18:42] <superfly> well, my lungs to be exact
[18:42] <Kilos> lol
[18:42] <Kilos> superfly, have you been back to doc
[18:42] <Kilos> its been like a month now
[18:42] <superfly> Kilos: no, I'm not bed enough to go back to the doc, I just need to take my medicine and my vitamins
[18:43] <Kilos> oh you still got
[18:43] <Kilos> then take them
[18:43] <Kilos> we can have a sick fly here
[18:43] <Kilos> cant
[18:43] <kbmonkey> if only our brains ran Linux they won't get infected ^^
[18:44] <Kilos> yeah
[18:44] <kbmonkey> /s/brains/bodies
[18:44] <superfly> kbmonkey: we'd also be like linux machines then, always working and never resting ;-)
[18:45] <Kilos> lol you are already superfly
[18:45] <kbmonkey> sudo make sandwich
[18:45] <superfly> kbmonkey: go make it yourself - not even sudo works with the superfly
[18:46]  * kbmonkey makes hot chocolate
[18:46] <Kilos> froztbyte, wb
[18:46] <froztbyte> just had to test something quickly
[18:47] <kbmonkey> hi froztbyte
[19:33]  * nuvolari disappears to bed for a good long night's rest, the first in a long while :O
[20:39] <Squirm> hey nuvolari
[20:39] <Squirm> eh
[20:39] <Squirm> an hour too late
[21:03] <kbmonkey> yes I think he's zzz -.-
[21:39] <Kilos> lo Wolfeyes
[21:39] <Kilos> cold hey
[21:39] <Wolfeyes> To much
[21:39] <Wolfeyes> Heya Kilos.
[21:39] <Wolfeyes> Evening all.
[21:42] <kbmonkey> lo
[21:45] <Wolfeyes> Heya kbmonkey
[21:47] <kbmonkey> hows it that side Wolfeyes?
[21:47] <Wolfeyes> Fine thank you and yourself kbmonkey, apart from being a bit cold.
[21:48] <kbmonkey> need moar hot chocolate :) brushing up on CSS
[21:49] <Wolfeyes> That would be a nice treat.
[21:50] <Wolfeyes> brb
[21:52] <Kilos> Maaz, coffee on
[21:52]  * Maaz flips the salt-timer
[21:54] <kbmonkey> fantastic idea, Kilos
[21:54] <Kilos> lol
[21:54] <kbmonkey> Maaz, coffee please
[21:54] <Maaz> kbmonkey: Alrighty
[21:56] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for Kilos and kbmonkey!
[21:57] <Kilos> Maaz, thanks buddy
[21:57] <Maaz> no probs, Kilos
[21:57] <kbmonkey> Maaz, thankyou
[21:57] <Maaz> no worries, kbmonkey
[22:01] <Symmetri1> supppppppppppp
[22:01] <Kilos> cold here Symmetri1 \
[22:01] <Kilos> hows ya
[22:02] <Symmetri1> lol, slightly drunk
[22:02] <Symmetri1> and rather intelectually stimulated :P lol, was sitting at a dinner debating some fairly complex socio-political issues with regards to the internet with some fairly prominent industry people
[22:02]  * kbmonkey sips hot chocolate
[22:02] <kbmonkey> now thats some strooong s**t
[22:02] <Symmetri1> and the more we all drank, the more interesting the discussion got :P
[22:03] <Kilos> lol
[22:03] <Symmetri1> LOL we had one guy arguing the state should be providing the internet (albeit free of charge)
[22:04] <Symmetri1> with me saying screw the state, it has to be private enterprise, because the state will attempt to control and censor what they dont like
[22:04] <Kilos> sounds like the free-internet guys on fACEBOOK
[22:04] <Symmetri1> heh, so we had what was in effect a socialist view on the one side of the table with me, a complete anarchist on the other side
[22:04] <Kilos> lol
[22:04] <Symmetri1> and our ceo sitting in the middle of this trying to figure out where he sat
[22:05] <Symmetri1> and the rest of the people around the table staring at us all like we were nuts :P
[22:05] <Symmetri1> LOL we agreed to continue the discussion another time over more whiskey when we werent in a place where whiskey was costing what that was costing :P
[22:08] <Symmetri1> http://www.cnn.com/2011/HEALTH/05/31/who.cell.phones/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
[22:08] <Symmetri1> LOL
[22:08] <Symmetri1> Im screwed by that article
[22:09] <Symmetri1> Im on the phone 4 to 5 hours a day
[22:13] <Kilos> night all sleep tight and warm
[23:00] <Squirm> fp