[00:33] <ochosi> robert_ancell: hm, i implemented the blanking now and it has exactly the effect i was afraid of.. the session that gets started does indeed inherit the blank settings
[00:33] <ochosi> (this is the patch, only weighs a few lines and applies against gtk-greeter trunk: http://dpaste.com/1548435/ )
[00:34] <ochosi> i also added another call to reset the settings to defaults, but somehow that doesn't work :/
[00:34] <robert_ancell> ochosi, does the session not apply the setting when it starts?
[00:34] <robert_ancell> This is XFCE right?
[00:34] <ochosi> yeah
[00:35] <ochosi> xfce doesn't do anything about these values unfortunately :/
[00:35] <robert_ancell> so it just uses the X defaults?
[00:35] <ochosi> so the greeter will have to reset whatever is default
[00:35] <ochosi> yup
[00:35] <robert_ancell> yeah, I guess the greeter can read it on startup and clear it
[00:35] <ochosi> well if you look at the patch, that's what i tried
[00:35] <ochosi> i added some debug output locally, the values do get read successfully
[00:36] <robert_ancell> ochosi, did you call an XSync or equivalent?
[00:36] <ochosi> hm, i didn't
[00:36] <robert_ancell> Since the greeter is quitting it might not have actually sent the request
[00:36] <ochosi> oh
[00:36] <robert_ancell> there's a gdk call for it
[00:36] <ochosi> since the simple call worked at the beginning, i presumed it would at the end as well...
[00:36] <ochosi> good catch, i'll see whether that helps
[00:37] <ochosi> XFlush (display); ?
[00:44] <ochosi> robert_ancell: somehow that doesn't seem to work either, tried both XSync and XFlush now
[00:44] <robert_ancell> hmm, X is notoriously hard to diagnose :(
[05:54] <pitti> Good morning
[09:04] <Laney> morning
[09:04] <Laney> happy monday!
[09:04] <Laney> or something like that
[09:05] <seb128> good morning desktopers
[09:05] <seb128> Laney, hey, happy monday! had a good w.e?
[09:07] <Laney> hey seb128, it was very nice thank you - we went away to the peak district for some hiking
[09:07] <Laney> you?
[09:09] <seb128> mine was good as well
[09:09] <seb128> some tennis, some shopping, some video gaming
[09:09] <seb128> relaxing in between, and spa yesterday afternoon
[09:11] <Laney> sounds pleasant indeed
[09:13] <pitti> hey Laney, bonjour seb128
[09:13] <seb128> pitti, lut, ça va ? bon w.e ?
[09:14] <pitti> seb128: oui, merci ! we did some badminton and a nice long walk, and played Wizard with some friends until late night on Saturday :)
[09:16] <seb128> wizard? I guess that's a board game?
[09:17] <Laney> sounds a bit like contract whist
[09:17] <pitti> a card game
[09:17] <Laney> played some of that over the weekend :-)
[09:17] <pitti> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wizard_%28card_game%29
[09:17] <Laney> (hey pitti!)
[09:17] <pitti> it's a bit similar to Skat, but with simpler rules, and more interesting strategies
[09:18] <seb128> sounds like fun in any case ;-)
[09:36] <Laney> hmm, two random reboots this morning
[09:36] <Laney> suspecting disk issues
[10:46] <seb128> Laney, so, about those sounds setting in accountsservice ... you think we should make accountsservice replace gsettings as the configuration backend for those settings?
[10:46] <seb128> Laney, I've to admit it makes me uncomfortable, I've much less trust in accountsservice than gsettings to be a nice API to use and for stability/performance as well
[10:47] <Laney> It seems like the way to go for user properties which need to be accessed by parts of the 'system'
[10:48] <seb128> desrt, larsu: do you have an opinion on the topic? the context is the "ringtone" config for example
[10:48] <seb128> we had it in gsettings
[10:48] <seb128> but the greeter needs it
[10:48] <seb128> so we need it to accountsservice
[10:48] <seb128> I was suggesting "syncing" it there by some way but letting gsettings the primary storage and have user apps still use that
[10:48] <seb128> Laney suggests replace gsettings by accountsservice and have apps talk to accountsservice instead
[10:49] <desrt> ...
[10:49] <desrt> does the phone really have users?
[10:49] <seb128> the tablet has
[10:49] <desrt> like what do we do?  ringtone depending on who is selected at the login screen?
[10:49] <seb128> yes
[10:49] <desrt> that seems pretty random
[10:49] <seb128> well, if it's not ringtone you can think wallpaper
[10:49] <seb128> or locale
[10:49] <seb128> or keyboard layout
[10:49] <Laney> It'll look up the 'active' user from logind
[10:50] <chrisccoulson> hello desktoppers!
[10:50] <Laney> and play that guy's ringtone
[10:50] <seb128> chrisccoulson, hey, how are you?
[10:50]  * desrt makes a face
[10:50] <chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, not too bad thanks. how are you?
[10:50] <desrt> seb128: keep using accountsservice, i guess
[10:50] <seb128> chrisccoulson, I'm good, thanks
[10:50]  * mpt imagines scrolling through the user list while the phone is ringing
[10:50] <Laney> it's not about that really
[10:50] <desrt> seb128: this is the future... we can shove all kinds of crack in there now
[10:50] <seb128> desrt, "keep"? we currently use gsettings
[10:50] <desrt> we can even have keys that have default values which contain '<' characters
[10:50] <desrt> TECHNOLOGY!!
[10:50] <seb128> desrt, so you would port desktop apps to talk to accountsservice rather than use gsettings?
[10:51] <Laney> I would only do it for things that need to be there
[10:51] <Laney> gsettings is nicer to work with
[10:51] <desrt> seb128: it seems like there are maybe a half-dozen or dozen examples of these type of settings that need to be available from the login screen
[10:51] <seb128> Laney, what is the API like for a desktop app to get a value and key changes update with accountsservice? I've the feeling that's a lot less nice that the 1 line with gsettings-qt
[10:51] <desrt> random apps settings are obviously not this case
[10:51] <Laney> seb128: well, indeed, we wrote a nice library for gsettings didn't we?
[10:52] <Laney> it would be more than 1 line without that ...
[10:52] <seb128> Laney, right ... so we write a nice one for accountsservice? ;-)
[10:52] <Laney> that'd be good
[10:52] <desrt> this is spinning wildly out of control
[10:52] <seb128> that change just feels wrong to me
[10:53] <desrt> we might have encrypted homedirs on the tablet?
[10:53] <seb128> I've trust in gsettings to be good (e.g robust and easy to use), I don't have the same trust in accountsservice
[10:53] <mpt> desrt, seb128: Last week we (charles, ted, and I) deprioritized all the indicator-related work based on who is selected, on the grounds that on Touch it’s pretty hard for an account to be selected without prompting you to log in.
[10:53] <desrt> seb128: accountsservice doesn't call abort()..... yet ;)
[10:53] <seb128> desrt, think convergence, we need to design for the desktop usecase, so yes, we mighgt have encrypted userdirs
[10:54] <seb128> mpt, well, if you use your device as an user and lock the screen that user should probably be the default one you are prompted to unlock if you turn the device back on?
[10:55] <seb128> "turn back on" being "resume from suspend", not a full power down/up cycle
[10:55] <Laney> so what would you do?
[10:55] <mpt> seb128, true.
[10:55] <desrt> seb128: does my desktop ring when i'm not logged in?
[10:56] <Laney> you want the telephony service to read accountsservice
[10:56] <seb128> desrt, if you have a SIM card, I guess so
[10:56] <Laney> u-s-s to write to gsettings
[10:56] <Laney> and ??? to mirror it?
[10:56] <seb128> Laney, is telephony-service a system or user service?
[10:56] <desrt> Laney: stop right there
[10:56] <desrt> you're about to violate The Rule
[10:57] <Laney> desrt: I'm asking seb128 what his design is
[10:57] <Laney> seb128: It runs as the user currently because multi user isn't worked out yet, I guess
[10:57] <seb128> well, the design we have on the desktop with the background is
[10:57] <seb128> - the gsettings key is the canonical config
[10:57] <desrt> desktop background is a great example of a violation of the rule :(
[10:57] <seb128> - nautilus/g-s-d monitor the key and write to a-s when it changes
[10:57] <Laney> I don't think nautilus is a good example
[10:57] <Laney> it's some weird local hack we did
[10:57] <seb128> - all the apps/config UI writes to gsettings
[10:58] <seb128> desrt, what rule?
[10:58] <desrt> seb128: data lives in one place
[10:58] <desrt> 'sync' is bad
[10:58] <Laney> sync 'smells' to me
[10:59] <desrt> i like sleep
[10:59] <seb128> desrt, yeah, what do you do up at 6am...
[11:00] <desrt> seb128: i started writing patches and i couldn't stop
[11:00] <desrt> now that i stopped to talk on IRC i realise that i'm actually very tired
[11:00] <desrt> i think i'm going to go grab a few hours :)
[11:00] <Laney> tata
[11:01] <seb128> ;-)
[11:01] <desrt> one comment first:
[11:01] <desrt> the only sane way to handle the sort of thing that you're proposing, in my opinion, is to do it from inside of dconf itself
[11:01] <seb128> desrt, Laney: ok, you win, let's drop gsettings and use a-s then, I just fear that a-s is going to suck to use for app writers compared to gsettings
[11:01] <desrt> the refactoring dconf got a cycle or two ago makes it pretty easy to support some kind of a plugin system inside the writer service that could do this sort of thing
[11:02] <desrt> ie: have a mapping of dconf paths to account service properties
[11:02] <seb128> that would be nice
[11:02] <desrt> then it's not really a 'sync' exactly
[11:02] <Laney> interesting
[11:02] <Laney> an AS backend?
[11:02] <desrt> because when you write it it's actually writing to both places straight away
[11:02] <desrt> Laney: as a plugin to dconf
[11:02] <ali1234> and what if the user's desktop doesn't use dconf to store settings?
[11:03] <desrt> i'm probably not going to think this is a good idea once i've had some sleep :)
[11:03] <desrt> so there's that....
[11:03] <seb128> ali1234, what is the user uses iOS?
[11:03] <ali1234> iOS doesn';t run on ubuntu, stop with the irrelevant comments
[11:03] <desrt> ta.
[11:03] <seb128> ali1234, not sure the question makes sense, we are talking about a stack we write and we are using dconf
[11:03] <ali1234> i'll make this very clear for you: what if the uses uses xubuntu
[11:04] <seb128> does xubuntu wants a phone edition and reflect session settings on their greeter?
[11:04] <ali1234> no and yes
[11:04] <seb128> in which case they should use dconf
[11:04] <seb128> or figure out another way to do what they want
[11:04] <ali1234> we already have it btw
[11:04] <Laney> neither AS nor this dconf idea I don't really understand would be ubuntu specific
[11:05] <seb128> Laney, they might not want to use dconf apparently
[11:05] <seb128> or AS
[11:05] <ali1234> we currently acieve it using AS
[11:05] <seb128> ali1234, do you use AS as the primary storage? (e.g is your desktop side reading there)
[11:05] <ali1234> no
[11:05] <seb128> or do you write to AS in addition to the "normal config"?
[11:05] <ali1234> yes
[11:05] <seb128> desrt, night btw ;-)
[11:06] <ali1234> xfce stores all settings in xfconf
[11:06] <seb128> ok, so same we do for the background image atm
[11:06] <ali1234> the background selector thing is patched to also write to AS
[11:06] <seb128> ok
[11:06] <seb128> that's a design we don't want
[11:06] <seb128> because then you need to teach every single app that want to change the background to write to AS
[11:07] <seb128> and duplicate that code tons of times
[11:07] <ali1234> well if you replace it with a design that uses dconf, xfce will not be able to use it, and we will have to keep the bad design
[11:07] <seb128> well, you could patch xfconf to do the same thing
[11:08] <seb128> whatever our solution is, it's not going to talk to xfconf anyway
[11:08] <ali1234> true
[11:09] <ali1234> of course that means the xfconf has to know the meaning of the schema
[11:09] <ali1234> same goes for dconf
[11:10] <ali1234> you still have to write a patch for every program that sets the background, but all the patches go into dconf instead of each individual program, and they still have to be kept in sync with the programs, but the developers of the programs won't see the patches
[11:11] <seb128> Laney, I need some time to think about it, I don't like much having to "sync", but I like less replacing gsettings by a-s, especially for something as important as the ringtone (if something bugs in that stacks it might mean you don't receive calls anymore on your phone, which sucks)
[11:12] <seb128> ali1234, why would you have to write patch? atm in ubuntu-desktop we just patch nautilus, it already monitors the gsettings config to update the rendering, we just added a "write to a-s" to the function it calls
[11:13] <Laney> I think you should try and get some evidence for your lack of trust
[11:13] <Laney> I don't share it and I don't know where it comes from
[11:13] <Laney> relatedly, I was kind of surprised to see no fallback code in telephony-service
[11:14] <Laney> don't know what happens if the ringtone gets deleted or something
[11:14] <ali1234> seb128: yes, that same patch is currently in xfdesktop
[11:17] <ali1234> point being if somebody changes the way nautilus handles the wallpaper, then the patch won't apply in ubuntu and somebody will fix it. but not if the patch lives in dconf: then nobody will notice until it breaks on an install
[11:17] <seb128> Laney, ok, fair enough, I guess we should give it a try ... the lack of trust gets from "direct read from a mmap <-> talking to a process over dbus" and from "nice api designed to be nice to app writers <-> raw dbus calls to a service"
[11:17] <seb128> gets->comes
[11:18] <seb128> reading from a mmap is as solid as you can get, dbus roundtrip with another process involved seems more likely to hit bugs
[11:20] <seb128> ali1234, well, configuration keys should never change, but yeah, if that happens somebody will need to update all clients
[11:21] <seb128> Laney, didrocks' new landing process is going to be nice for those changes btw, when we do a landing ask it's going to give us a ppa with the new telephony-service and u-s-s to test ;-)
[11:21] <Laney> heh
[11:50] <seb128> Laney, ok, I made my mind, +1 for using a-s ... if we add fallback code, to play the default sound in telephony-service, in case the config is empty/buggy
[11:51] <Laney> seb128: righto
[11:52]  * Laney just built telephony-service for armhf to test that
[11:52] <Laney> not the default thing, haven't done that yet
[11:53] <Laney> dear phone, please kindly turn on, no love, iain
[12:05] <Laney> decent, it works
[14:20] <seb128> Laney, there is a webkit 2.3.2 -> 2.3.4 update to do, want to do it?
[14:20] <seb128> Laney, I'm just asking because there is a wishlist bug from adam-yorba about it, wondering if I should assign it ;-)
[14:47] <Laney> seb128: will do at some point
[14:47] <Laney> test building on all arches sucks though
[14:47] <seb128> Laney, ok, so I'm assigning the bug to you
[14:47] <Laney> sure
[14:47] <seb128> right, I was pondering just doing a dch -v update and pushing to a ppa just to see what happens
[14:47] <seb128> ;-)
[14:49] <mlankhorst> sure, makes sense
[14:49] <Laney> if you have a ppa which builds for ppc* and arm64 ;-)
[14:49] <Laney> there will be some patch wrangling
[14:50] <mlankhorst> hm speaking of which, I'll need ppc64 and arm64 enabled on x-staging at some point
[15:47] <sil2100> seb128: hi! How do you stand with free time today? You think you'll have a moment for a preNEW review?
[15:48] <seb128> sil2100, you can assume that every day is busy but it doesn't hurt to ask ... what source this time?
[15:48] <seb128> we need a queue for preNEW like for sponsoring etc
[15:48] <sil2100> seb128: it's
[15:48] <sil2100> lp:account-plugin-evernote this time
[15:49] <sil2100> (wild newline)
[15:49] <seb128> sil2100, ok, let me have a look
[15:49] <sil2100> seb128: thank you! :)
[15:49] <seb128> you are lucky, I just caught me at a time where I was done with something and looking for the next thing to pick from my todolist ;-)
[15:50] <sil2100> hah, excellent timing then ;)
[15:52] <seb128> sil2100, there is a typo in the description
[15:52] <seb128> " This plugin enables developers to authenticate to their Evernote developer
[15:52] <seb128>  sanbox account, which allows syncing of Evernote notes across Ubuntu devices."
[15:52] <seb128> sanbox -> sandbox
[15:53] <seb128> sil2100, NEWS and README are empty, no need to list them to install (e.g drop debian/docs)
[15:56] <sil2100> seb128: hah, didn't see that typo - will fix those issues straight away
[15:57] <seb128> sil2100, do we know where the icon is coming from?
[16:02] <sil2100> seb128: I will make sure we know exactly, but from what I see it's our creation right now
[16:03] <sil2100> seb128: it's the Reminders app icon: https://launchpad.net/reminders-app
[16:04] <sil2100> seb128: should I add copyright for this as well? Since I saw that the reminders-app doesn't have it copyrighted under debian/copyright as well
[16:05] <sil2100> seb128: so I thought it's a convention
[16:05] <seb128> sil2100, I'm asking because our artwork is usually CC-BY-SA
[16:05] <seb128> sil2100, but I'm not picky about it
[16:05] <seb128> having it under GPL wfm
[16:05] <seb128> sil2100, otherwise it looks good for NEW, maybe just check with design that the license for the artwork is ok
[16:06] <sil2100> seb128: will do, thank you! Fixing what was pointed out and asking design in a moment
[16:06] <seb128> sil2100, great
[16:13] <sil2100> seb128: https://code.launchpad.net/~sil2100/account-plugin-evernote/more_minor_fixes/+merge/201450 <- in case you want to confirm the fixes ;)
[16:25] <seb128> sil2100, looks good, thanks
[17:33] <GunnarHj> bregma: ping?
[17:33] <bregma> GunnarHj, pong
[17:33] <GunnarHj> bregma: Hi Stephen! Your remark yesterday on the ubuntu-doc list made me curious. Can you give me a pointer to some info on the planned changes for 14.04 on input method handling?
[17:36] <bregma> GunnarHj, we have related blueprint https://blueprints.launchpad.net/unity/+spec/client-1404-unity7-hotkey-handling but nothing specific on IM stuff
[17:36] <bregma> there were problems in 13.10 wih IM and keyboard selection conflicts
[17:39] <GunnarHj> bregma: Indeed there were, and I hope that most of it has been dealt with by now. But as regards IM there have also been discussions on reverting to how things worked in 13.04, or switch to fcitx. I thought that nothing of that will happen, but your list comment made me wonder. ;-)
[17:41] <bregma> we do not plan to switch to fcitx in Ubuntu 14.04 LTS
[17:41] <GunnarHj> bregma: Will the current "Text Entry" UI be just about as it is now?
[17:42] <bregma> GunnarHj, we have some IM changes in Unity pending upstream
[17:42] <attente> bregma, GunnarHj, i have a ppa that should fix some of the problems
[17:43] <attente> https://launchpad.net/~attente/+archive/gnome-key-grabber
[17:43] <GunnarHj> Thanks, attente!
[17:44] <GunnarHj> attente: One thing I'm wondering about is the default keyboard shortcuts for switching input source. Currently they involve the "Super" key which does not work.
[17:45] <attente> GunnarHj, they'll work with the ppa, but the super key still also activates simultaneously
[17:46] <attente> so you'll see the launcher numbers the same way the super key is held down
[17:46] <attente> and possibly the shortcut help screen
[17:46] <GunnarHj> attente: Wouldn't Alt+Shift be a better default?
[17:47] <GunnarHj> attente: Less confusing...
[17:48] <attente> GunnarHj, i'm not sure tbh... it seems like a lot of the non-latin guys want something like that, while the cjk guys prefer something like modifier+space
[17:49] <GunnarHj> attente: Ok... What's most important, of course, is that the default works.
[17:49] <GunnarHj> attente: Should I install all those four packages to test?
[17:49] <attente> GunnarHj, right
[17:49] <attente> GunnarHj, sure, if you're up for testing the ppa, by all means
[17:50] <GunnarHj> attente: Will do. Somehow I got myself involved in this mess (via ubuntu-docs). ;-)
[17:51] <attente> GunnarHj, heh
[18:32] <GunnarHj> attente: I tested your PPA, and can confirm that Super+Space works with those packages.
[18:33] <attente> GunnarHj, thanks
[18:45] <xclaesse> dunno who to ask, but what's the plan regarding kdbus in ubuntu ?
[18:45] <xclaesse> as I understand it needs a bit of userspace in systemd
[18:46] <xclaesse> will ubuntu implement its own ?
[19:14] <Delemas> After a 13.04 to 13.10 upgrade my server logs are getting spammed every 6 seconds by systemd-logind as per: http://pastebin.ca/2535595 This happens even when user isn't logged in. Anyone know why?
[19:47] <Delemas> Nevermind I found the cause... Monitoring service run amok...


[01:17] <maxb> vila: Does bzr-landing-dependencies have a bzr branch?
[02:17] <maxb> So are we on for 2.2 today?
[02:20] <fullermd> Man, you're behind.  I've had 2.2 for months   ;)
[02:32] <GungaDin> Hi
[02:34] <thumper> hi
[02:34] <thumper> didn't someone start a gitorious fork using bzr?
[02:34] <thumper> anyone know the status of it?
[02:41] <GungaDin> Is it possible to generate a diff/patch by simulating a merge ?
[02:44] <spiv> GungaDin: 'bzr merge --preview'
[02:46] <GungaDin> can that be used with patch?
[02:47] <thumper> GungaDin: I believe so
[02:47] <beuno> or bzr send?
[02:47] <beuno> hai thumper!
[02:48] <thumper> hi beuno
[02:49] <thumper> GungaDin: what are you trying to achieve?
[02:51] <GungaDin> to patch the changes of a merge.
[02:51] <GungaDin> I don't want the history tracked. just need to patch.
[02:52] <thumper> GungaDin: you can do that with bzr
[02:52] <thumper> if you merge the branch
[02:52] <thumper> then I think you do bzr revert .
[02:52] <thumper> don't forget the dot
[02:52] <thumper> and I think that merges the content without the history
[02:53] <thumper> but I'd like lifeless or spiv to check that
[02:53] <spiv> bzr revert --forget-merges
[02:53] <spiv> thumper: 'bzr revert .' is the opposite :)
[02:53] <thumper> good thing I checked then :)
[02:54] <thumper> spiv: so with --forget-merges it keeps the file changes?
[02:54] <spiv> GungaDin: So do 'bzr merge' followed by 'bzr revert --forget-merges'
[02:54] <spiv> thumper: yes
[02:54] <thumper> cool
[02:54] <thumper> thanks
[02:56] <GungaDin> cool. thx
[07:48] <vila> hi all !
[07:49] <Peng> Good morning. :)
[07:49] <mgz> morning vila.
[07:50] <vila> :)
[07:55] <vila> mgz: do you have a way to reproduce bug #681047 ?
[07:55] <mgz> nope, only seen it on babune, as I don't have paramiko installed locally
[07:56] <vila> mgz: hmm. Do you agree that get_bytes()/get() may be a cause ?
[07:57] <mgz> looked like a good thing to fix, but I'd be suprised if it were the cause
[07:57] <vila> mgz: taking into account that paramiko do some internals sleep()
[07:57] <mgz> I'm pretty sure that refcounting means the file is closed at the end of that statement
[07:58] <mgz> http://babune.ladeuil.net:24842/job/selftest-windows/242/ <- last run has one of the sftp failures
[07:58] <mgz> ...also has an lsprof thing I don't think I seen before
[07:58] <mgz> http://babune.ladeuil.net:24842/job/selftest-windows/242/testReport/junit/bzrlib.tests.test_lsprof/TestStatsSave/test_stats_save_to_pickle/ <- any ideas on this?
[08:01] <vila> EOF during a file read... sounds a bit like the bucket I put many random failures into: vbox having trouble /bug with fs updates/caching >-/
[08:01] <vila> which is so vague I don't dare mentioning it usually...
[08:03] <mgz> was guessing something like that
[08:05] <vila> The scary thing with this scenario is that it implies a very stealth bug with a very low occurrence rate which more or less means it will never be fixed :(
[08:06] <vila> On the other hand, the fact that the pattern is common to so many various OSes can hardly be caused by bzr itself (since it doesn't occur on real hardware...)
[08:16] <vila> mgz: by the way, it's nice to have clearer failures in the other cases ;)
[10:26] <vila> maxb: I have only a local branch for bzr-landing-dependencies so far, that's bad, but I don't know where to put it, defining an lp project for it sounds too heavy-weight, keeping a local branch too light, ideas welcome
[10:37] <spiv> vila: +junk until you decide?
[10:40] <vila> right
[10:40] <vila> done: lp:~vila/+junk/bzr-landing-dependencies
[10:41] <vila> thanks to bzr for reminding at first push, I don't have to note it anywhere...
[10:43] <maxb> vila: you should be able to push it to lp:~bzr/ubuntu/hardy/bzr-landing-dependencies/bzr-ppa
[10:44] <vila> maxb: brilliant
[10:44] <vila> done
[10:45] <vila> maxb: where is this defined ?
[10:46] <vila> I mean, what are the rules there (especially the 'bzr-ppa' part) ?
[10:47] <maxb> the bzr-ppa part is nothing more than convention established by me
[10:49] <vila> lol :) Best doc ever ! Ask and you should receive an answer :D
[10:49] <maxb> there was an email thread a while back where I proposed and then did a rename of all the extant ppa packaging branches
[10:50] <vila> ok, then, what is allowed under lp:~bzr/ubuntu/hardy/ (this is <user>/<distro>/<series> right ?) ?
[10:50] <maxb> the rest of the 5-component name is launchpad's schema for identifying source package branches
[10:51] <maxb> so, person/distro/series/package
[10:51] <vila> even if bzr-landing-dependencies is not  (yet?) an "blessed" package ?
[10:52] <maxb> handily using the accidental? feature that even PPA package names work there
[10:53] <vila> ooooh, so it's not that arbitrary then, it should catch tyops :D
[14:03] <DaffyDuck_`> If I use a shared repo (init-repo), and create a bunch of branches within it. Is it safe to remove branches from the shared repository if they turn out to be dead-ends, or are the repostitory files and branch files weaved together?
[14:05] <Peng> DaffyDuck_`: Nuke branches to your heart's content. All of the important data is in the shared repo itself. Note that this means the revisions unique to that branch won't be deleted.
[14:06] <Peng> (Unless something has changed significantly recently...)
[14:09] <DaffyDuck_`> Peng: Thanks. I trust that if it has had that behavior, it still does. :)
[14:11] <Peng> DaffyDuck_`: Check if something has a .bzr/repository to be sure.
[14:13] <DaffyDuck_`> Yeah; my plan was to run "bzr info" to see if it mentions being a part of a repository before nuking anything.
[14:29] <Peng> Yeah, that works too. :P
[15:28] <mvo> hey, could someone help me please with a rather odd error message? I work on "bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/%2Bbranch/vmbuilder/" (lp:vmbuilder) and do "bzr merge lp:~mvo/vmbuilder/add-natty". now it tells me:
[15:28] <mvo> bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: "bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-virt/vmbuilder/0.12/".
[15:29] <mvo> where does it get this from? I'm pretty sure that lp:~mvo/vmbuilder/add-natty is a branch of lp:vmbuilder
[15:29] <jelmer> mvo: Hi
[15:29] <mvo> hey jelmer
[15:29] <jelmer> mvo: I suspect lp:~mvo/vmbuilder/add-natty was originally stacked on that other branch but the other branch has been renamed
[15:29] <jelmer> or perhaps removed
[15:29] <mvo> should I just apply the diff or is there a better workaround?
[15:31] <jelmer> mvo: do you know what happened to the original 0.12 branch?
[15:31] <mvo> I have no idea :(
[15:31] <jelmer> If it's still around under another name, or if it was merged into another branch then you should be able to fix the stacked-on location
[15:31] <jelmer> You can see the reference to the 0.12 branch here: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mvo/vmbuilder/add-natty/.bzr/branch/branch.conf
[15:32] <mvo> can I just mug around in that file to point to a different one?
[15:32] <jelmer> mvo: yep
[15:32]  * mvo puts his cowboy hat on and tries it
[15:33] <jelmer> I thought launchpad prevented removing branches that had other branches stacked on them, but apparently there isn't complete coverage.
[15:35] <mvo> this is rather odd - I just pushed my local branch to lp as add-natty2 and it said that it reated it as a stacked branch on top of 0.12 as well. but this one I can merge to trunk
[15:35] <mvo> worth a bugreport?
[15:35] <jelmer> mvo: Yeah, I think so
[15:42] <mvo> bug #681431
[15:43] <mvo> probably needs adjustment, maybe its code-hosting instead of bzr? or both?
[15:43] <mvo> thanks for your help, I was able to workaround it now
[15:46] <lvh> Hey. I'd like to integrate Roundup with bzr. I'm hosting bzr on a server with bzr+ssh. Closing/referencing tickets seems easy, since those are commit hooks. I'm wondering about *assigning* tickets: I'd like to assign them when someone branches off.
[15:46] <lvh> If I understand correctly there's no hook for that at the moment.
[15:47] <lvh> (And unlike in SVN a branch doesn't imply a commit. I like that, but it makes this somewhat unfortunate.)
[15:47] <lvh> Perhaps a push hook? Does the hook know who committed?
[15:48] <lvh> I'm looking at http://wiki.bazaar.canonical.com/BzrHooks, it mentions bzr 1.0 hooks. Is that hopelessly outdated?
[15:57] <mvo> hm, hm, there is  https://launchpad.net/vmbuilder/0.12 and claims the 0.12 series points to lp:vmbuilder
[16:02] <maxb> mvo: Note the difference between ~ubuntu-virt/vmbuilder/0.12 and ~vmbuilder-dev/vmbuilder/0.12
[16:03] <mvo> ohhhh
[16:03] <maxb> Do you need to rescue an existing branch, or have you completely worked around it by repushing a local copy?
[16:04] <mvo> for the initial one I worked around by pushing my local copy, but I would like to e.g. branch the "packaging" branch which is not possible now
[16:04] <mvo> currently
[16:05] <maxb> mvo: Do you have write access to the problem branch?
[16:06] <jelmer> lvh: Yeah, I don't think the wiki has been updated - try "bzr help hooks" ?
[16:06] <mvo> not the packaging one :/ to trunk though
[16:06] <lvh> jelmer: Ooooooh. Nice.
[16:06] <mvo> the one I wanted to work on next is lp~soren/vmbuilder/packaging
[16:06] <lvh> jelmer: Thanks
[16:06] <mvo> but that is not owned by me
[16:07] <maxb> mvo: hmm. In that case we need a losa or someone who does. Or, in a pinch, you can copy the branch content locally and fix it up on your local machine
[16:07] <soren> mvo: What do you want to do to it?
[16:08] <mvo> soren: make it work again (i.e. make it possible to branch it again). see https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad-code/+bug/681431
[16:08] <mvo> soren: it appears its unhappy because its stacked on location changed
[16:08] <soren> mvo: I'm not even sure I have a local checkout of it.
[16:09] <soren> mvo: Let me know if I can help.
[16:09] <maxb> soren: Could you download a script I wrote for this purpose? http://j.maxb.eu/~maxb/bzr-set-stacked-url
[16:09] <mvo> oh, nice
[16:10] <lvh> jelmer: None of these hooks appear to know which user did it though
[16:10] <mvo> soren: once I have that branch I will update it to include the current packaging and push it as ~vmbuilder-dev so that its in sync again (I guess you don't mind :)
[16:10] <maxb> Then you can run bzr-set-stacked-url lp:~soren/vmbuilder/packaging lp:~vmbuilder-dev/vmbuilder/0.12
[16:10] <soren> I'm cooking dinner right now, actually.
[16:11] <jelmer> lvh: you can check who committed the revision that was pushed?
[16:11] <soren> mvo: Can you ping me about it this evening or tomorrow? I'd be happy to help get this sorted out.
[16:11] <lvh> jelmer: I suppose I could use bzr's notion of who did it and not ssh's notion of who did it and it'd even be more correct
[16:11] <lvh> jelmer: Right
[16:11] <maxb> soren, mvo: I'll sort it via scping the branch and push it to lp:~maxb/vmbuilder/packaging
[16:11] <mvo> soren: will do, maybe I find find a LOSA in the meatime to fix it up, but if not, I will ping you
[16:11] <mvo> maxb: cool! many thanks .)
[16:11] <soren> mvo: Lovely.
[16:12] <lvh> jelmer: post pull and push are client-only, so either I need cooperative clients or something else
[16:12] <jelmer> lvh: you can't really rely on anything but the client as bzr supports "dumb" push
[16:13] <lvh> jelmer: I'm working under the assumption everyone does everything over bzr+ssh
[16:13] <maxb> mvo: pushed
[16:13] <lvh> post-branch-init looks promising
[16:14]  * mvo hugs maxb
[16:15] <lvh> jelmer: If I understand correctly http://people.canonical.com/~mwh/bzrlibapi/bzrlib.branch.BranchInitHookParams.html isn't linkable to the bzr concept of a person, because there are no commits made. Does that sound right?
[16:17] <jelmer> lvh: yeah
[16:18] <lvh> Hm, unfortunate, but I guess I'll live :-) Thanks jelmer :-)
[17:04] <maxb> Hrm. PQM seems to only be accessible under pqm.bazaar-vcs.org, there appears to be no pqm.bazaar.canonical.com
[17:05] <maxb> This doesn't feel like the sort of thing to file on Launchpad. Maybe a Canonicalite could log a suggestion or RT for the Canonical sysadmins?
[17:07] <vila> maxb: why ?
[17:07] <maxb> Consistency. AFAIK every other bazaar resource has moved off bazaar-vcs.org
[17:08] <vila> Well, the other ones are targeted at users, whereas pqm is only targeted at committers... which I strongly suspect won't upgrade their configs :D
[17:09] <vila> ..not mentioning the docs...
[17:10] <vila> maxb: and since there are plans to migrate from pqm to tarmac, I'd rather keep the energy focused on that instead
[17:10] <maxb> ah, ok
[17:12] <vila> maxb: I'm about to EOD, but I plan to look at what needs to be done for the MRE regarding 2.2.2 (or the SRU otherwise) first thing tomorrow, I may ask you silly questions then, be prepared ;D
[17:13] <maxb> vila: We pop it in the PPA, say, "look, it passes, please rubberstamp that this SRU has met our MRE conditions, thanks"
[17:13] <vila> maxb: you're just great :D
[17:13] <maxb> Then we validate the package in maverick-proposed did actually build correctly, and say "it works, please promote to maverick-updates"
[17:15] <vila> right, so I need to setup the right branches on my side and document the above
[17:16] <vila> This sounds like a good summary, but 'validate .. in maverick-proposed' is still a bit obscure to me, ha, no, we do nothing more for that than pointing to the right package branch ?
[17:16] <vila> i.e. let me try
[17:17] <vila> lp:~bzr/ubuntu/maverick/bzr/bzr-ppa ?
[17:17] <vila> or bzr-proposed ?
[17:17] <vila> nah, bzr-ppa when available right ?
[17:27] <maxb> yes.... but no :-)
[17:27] <maxb> We probably want to prepare the SRU on top of the existing ubuntu packaging branch
[17:27] <maxb> And then just happen to commit equivalent changes onto the PPA branch
[17:28] <maxb> Also, we need to assess the list of bugs fixed by this SRU to prepare an appropriate debian/changelog entry
[17:29] <maxb> Also I've been refining the debian/rules invocations to run the testsuite in the maverick bzr-ppa package, so some of that needs to be ported onto the ubuntu branch
[17:29] <maxb> I'd can do that tonight if you like
[17:40] <maxb> vila: ^
[17:50] <vila> maxb: whatever works for you, I'd be happy to only look as well as being your hands there
[17:51] <vila> maxb: I'm off now, but I will read the log
[17:51] <maxb> ok
[19:48] <ccxCZ> did I misunderstand, or is bzr merge --interactive broken when it does not record the commit as merge?
[19:48] <ccxCZ> it's plain commit in my history
[19:52] <maxb> ccxCZ: I could believe that it might be deliberate
[19:53] <maxb> Recorded merges are supposed to denote complete merges of that line of history, whereas if you omit chunks, that's not really the case
[19:53] <ccxCZ> well certainly it's not documented in help and now my history messed up :/
[19:53]  * maxb reads the source code
[19:55] <maxb> It rather does look like this is the case
[19:56] <ccxCZ> ok I'll remerge that
[19:56] <ccxCZ> but it's kind of nasty, since one might want to cherrypick
[20:02] <maxb> ccxCZ: Well that's rather the point. An interactive merge by definition is a cherrypick of sorts, and cherrypicks are never recorded as full merges.
[20:15] <Ng> does bzr use launchpad's edge server to decode lp:foo locations?
[20:15] <Ng> hmm, I mean "is it hard coded to do that", because the machine I'm using clearly is trying to use edge for that
[20:20] <maxb> Ng: I believe it has done in some versions of bzr. Not sure if it still does, though
[20:20] <elmo> yeah, it's known and known as a bug
[20:21] <elmo> also not sure if/when it's been fixed
[20:21]  * maxb cries at the mess of parallel imports for bzr UDD packaging
[20:22] <lifeless> Ng: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/583667
[20:23] <Ng> ta all
[20:34] <lifeless> Ng: what version do you have?
[20:34] <Ng> lifeless: 2.0.4
[20:35] <lifeless> I suspect that still uses edge for lp:
[20:47] <maxb> Ng: This changed in 2.2. Might be worth upgrading, for the steady stream of bugfixes since then
[20:47] <elmo> the bzr --whoami thing is blocking us
[20:48] <elmo> or, at least, that's why we're still on 2.0.4
[20:48] <maxb> What is the --whoami thing?
[20:48] <elmo> maxb: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/616878
[20:49] <maxb> elmo: Is your /etc-in-bzr via etckeeper?
[20:50] <elmo> maxb: our setup pre-dates etckeeper, but it's the same idea
[21:26] <maxb> jelmer: for the 2.2.2 maverick SRU, shall we just leave the testsuite not using the compiled extensions, since we have not settled how we want to fix that, do you think?
[21:30] <jelmer> maxb: Yeah, I think that's a good point. Let's not make any unnecessary last minute changes.
[21:43] <maxb> jelmer: Right. I am planning to put the "run bundled plugin tests" change in, though, since I've already run that through the PPA to validate it
[22:26] <maxb> Rather madly, I think bug 659590 is actually the most important fix in 2.2.2 for Ubuntu
[22:30] <maxb> Hrm.
[22:30] <maxb> According to the SRU process we need to release 2.3b4 and get it into natty before we can SRU 2.2.2
[22:58] <maxb> AAAAAAAAAARRRRRGHH
[22:58] <maxb> Our MicroReleaseException is broken
[22:59] <maxb> We cannot run the testsuite during package build, because bzr is in main, but python-testtools is in universe.
[23:22] <jelmer> maxb: :-((
[23:22] <jelmer> maxb: We should really try to get python-testtools into main.
[23:22] <jelmer> maxb: But I guess that's not something we could do for this SRU..
[23:23] <maxb> I think I'm about ready to throw my hands up in horror and say "SRU? What's that? We have a lovely ~bzr PPA for you to use!"
[23:25] <lifeless> (
[23:25] <lifeless> :(
[23:42] <maxb> Speaking of which, uploadded 2.2.2 to bzr/proposed now


[06:53] <jphilips> shouldn't we have something in place that light-locker be removed when upgrading from 18.04 to 20.04?
[06:53] <jphilips> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1918940
[06:53] <ubot3> Launchpad bug 1918940 in linux (Ubuntu) "Screen goes black randomly after upgrade from Xubuntu 18.04.5 LTS to Xubuntu 20.04.2 LTS" [Undecided, Confirmed]
[07:26] <Unit193> https://git.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-release-upgrader/tree/data/DistUpgrade.cfg#n67
[07:28] <jphilips> so if i'm getting this right, we should add a PostUpgradeRemove entry for light-locker
[07:31] <jphilips> presume we'd have to add it to the bionic to focal upgrade file - https://git.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-release-upgrader/tree/data/DistUpgrade.cfg.bionic?h=applied/ubuntu/focal
[07:48] <jphilips> Unit193: does core 18.04 come with light-locker?
[14:28] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: Fix last LTS release name @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-docs/commit/f970533955e3f7f9f6411b3316607dd04aabc934 (by philipzae)
[14:28] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: Merge pull request #13 from philipzae/patch-2 @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-docs/commit/aa9f36e3dec93dce1b3ed413723637ed30d61e8d (by bluesabre)


[00:00] <Len-nb> Maybe it has been fixed there is a build for today, but I can't upgrade the low latency kernel still.
[00:00] <zequence> Len-nb: You should be able to install the image separately
[00:01] <zequence> Len-nb: I notified apw about it
[00:01] <zequence> The guy who maintains it atm
[00:01] <Len-nb> Ah, I thought that was you for some reason...
[00:01] <zequence> Len-nb: I haven't yet taken over maintenance
[00:02] <Len-nb> Ok, I am not in a hurry to get it, just thought it should work is all :)
[00:03] <zequence> Yep
[08:29] <smartboyhw> OK guys we got the build actually built but you can't install it.
[08:29] <smartboyhw> Bug 1079193 breaks installation in all images (all flavours)
[09:28] <smartboyhw> astraljava1, why extra nick?
[09:39] <astraljava1> Got disconnected, hold on.
[09:41] <smartboyhw> Oh...That's why.
[14:24] <smartboyhw> Hi scott-work
[14:36] <smartboyhw> Ladies and Gentlemen: Ubuntu Studio is now in Wubi!!!!!
[14:37] <zequence> smartboyhw: So, will you be able to test install it?
[14:38] <smartboyhw> zequence, hopefully yes. Some guy bcbc actually tested the original version of the code and told me it was wrong, I fixed it and the code was now merged into Wubi source code. Hopefully he will test it again
[14:48] <smartboyhw> Bug 1070682 closed:D
[14:57] <smartboyhw> micahg, can you please upload ubuntustudio-icon-theme 0.14 for len-dt I think we will want that fix a.s.a.p.
[14:59] <smartboyhw> gee then someone should go update the seeds and the metas
[15:00] <zequence> Seems like Steam coming to Ubuntu will improve chances of working ATI graphic drivers
[15:00] <smartboyhw> zequence, I have it here already (though it is 13.04)
[15:01] <zequence> smartboyhw: fglrx?
[15:01] <smartboyhw> zequence, I mean Steam Beta
[15:02] <zequence> ATI graphic drivers have their ups and downs. The open source drivers are fully functional and I think support more devices than the proprietary ones, but seem to have problems with overheating
[15:03] <zequence> fglrx on the other hand may or may not work, depending on the Ubuntu release
[15:03] <zequence> From what I understand, Steam will put pressure on AMD to get their proprietary drivers working well on Ubuntu
[15:04] <zequence> Right now, Nvidia and Intel graphic card are well supported, but not AMD ATI
[15:05] <zequence> Hopefully with Steam coming to Linux there will be more focus on well working graphic drivers
[15:06] <zequence> A quote from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Valve, "NOTE: The fglrx-experimental-9 driver will be available in precise-proposed soon, but is not yet available."
[15:18] <smartboyhw> bye zequence
[17:05] <astraljava> zequence: Yeah, I wonder how they'll do that. They just axed the OS folks department in Germany.
[17:26] <zequence> astraljava: Since fglrx already exists, I'd imagine it wouldn't take them too much resources to make it work ok
[17:28] <astraljava> zequence: Well... they've had fglrx existing for quite some while. Look where it's gotten them. :)
[17:32] <zequence> astraljava: They didn't have good enough reason to get it working better in the past. And from what I hear, Valve does work closely with Nvidia and AMD to better graphics, as does probably a lot of big gaming companies
[17:34] <astraljava> Sure, it does sound logical when you put it that way. But then their actions tell a different story.
[17:40] <zequence> astraljava: I haven't followed AMD business closely, but from what I understand, they are putting less effort on x86 arch
[17:40] <zequence> And I wouldn't know how that would affect ATI graphic cards
[17:46] <astraljava> Well, I don't think arch has anything to do with it. Most of the major linux distributions have announced the majority of their new installs base is non-x86 anyway, so it doesn't sound like the reason.
[17:46] <astraljava> But, with big business, what do the outsiders know.
[18:15] <zequence> astraljava: I don't think the linux distros not using x86 are as concerned with the development of fglrx (servers, and such).
[18:15] <zequence> AMD announced that they were no longer competing with Intel on x86 as they used to
[18:16] <zequence> And I'm assuming the cuts are somehow related, I don't really know
[18:16] <zequence> AMD ATI Radeon however, is a different issue all together
[18:24] <zequence> This is about the open source driver problem http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTE3ODg
[19:13] <zequence> hmm. When I maximize windows in 12.10, the top window bar disappears just like in Unity?
[19:14] <zequence> This install is messed up, but I'm still a little surprised to see it happen
[19:14] <zequence> Ah, the top panel is set to autohide, but it doesn't hide
[22:20] <holstein> zequence: i ask users to run as root as a troubleshooting step for permissions
[22:22] <holstein> zequence: i actually used the word "temporarily" in my susggetion
[22:22] <holstein> suggestion*
[22:23] <holstein> 14:36 < holstein> paul__: try running temporarily as root
[22:26] <zequence> holstein: Yea, but if he can start jack, then you can conclude he doesn't have a permission problem
[22:26] <holstein> zequence: i wasnt convinced it was starting
[22:26] <holstein> zequence: it was a choice i made, and i said "temporarily".. but im trying to appreciate you clarifying
[22:27] <holstein> it wont hurt
[22:27] <holstein> i dont think that is the issue for him though
[22:28] <holstein> its not an ardour issuse...
[22:29] <holstein> i think its making noise becuase he's trying to push too much with it
[22:30] <holstein> if he comes back, we'll see... and i'll just keep quiet
[22:30] <holstein> its nice having other supportes in the channel
[22:30] <holstein> supporters*
[22:30] <zequence> There does seem to be a tendency for other users to help out
[22:30] <holstein> yup... now a days, we have a few
[22:31] <zequence> Don't know if the amount of users logged in has increased much. Can't remember from before
[22:31] <zequence> 36 is not a bad number
[22:31] <holstein> i popped in the channel at the end of 2009 and asked a question... waited a week and asked again.. and i was the only one answering questions for the most part til recently
[22:32] <holstein> i think 12.04 is solid
[22:32] <holstein> attracting users again :)
[22:32] <zequence> Only problem with 12.04 is jack though
[22:32] <holstein> works OK for me
[22:32] <holstein> so far at least
[22:32] <zequence> jackdbus?
[22:32] <zequence> Or jackd
[22:32] <holstein> i havent had any issues doing my normal thing with 12.04
[22:33] <zequence> If you stop jackdbus, eventually it crashes and stays running in the background
[22:33] <zequence> You can't kill it from the system monitor
[22:33] <holstein> zequence: so far, its been clean starts and stops
[22:33] <zequence> holstein: jackdbus, or jackd?
[22:33] <holstein> just jackd AFAIK
[22:33] <zequence> jackd will work fine, but not jackdbus
[22:33] <zequence> jackdbus is the default
[22:34] <holstein> i didnt change anything
[22:34] <holstein> i just hit start, and its been working fine
[22:34] <zequence> holstein: Did you disable dbus?
[22:34] <holstein> start, stop ..edit settings .. start
[22:34] <holstein> zequence: not at first
[22:34] <zequence> holstein: It's a known and verified bug with jackdbus, it crashing when trying to stop it
[22:34] <holstein> zequence: i can test more though and see.. when i get my firewire device back over here
[22:34] <zequence> One which I'm about to fix
[22:35] <holstein> cool
[22:35] <holstein> i had read about it.. but im not intersted in the dbus thing anyways
[22:35] <zequence> Many users have had to reboot in order to be able to start jack again
[22:35] <holstein> zequence: i did notice that in 12.10 in testing, but i assumed it was just me
[22:36] <zequence> There's also the matter with the kernel not being as well performing as pre version 3.*
[22:37] <zequence> You might get random xruns at fairly high latencies.
[22:37] <holstein> well, i get noticably better performance in 10.04 with the rt kernel from 9.10
[22:37] <holstein> and falks realtime kernels
[22:37] <zequence> You mean aboganis :)
[22:37] <holstein> its a bit of a regression, but im still hopeful
[22:37] <holstein> zequence: those are falks though.. he patched them for nvidia
[22:37] <zequence> I haven't yet tested the raring kernel. 12.10 is still a bit sucky
[22:38] <holstein> i suppose i might have to learn to make my own
[22:38] <zequence> Don't think realtime is much better
[22:38] <zequence> Haven't been for me on Debian anyway
[22:38] <holstein> hmm. that sux
[22:38] <zequence> Depends more on the kernel version than on realtime/lowlatency for me
[22:39] <holstein> i assumed a realtime would be on par with the old one
[22:39] <zequence> This is why I'll be using 2.6.37 version, no matter which release
[22:39] <holstein> i might too...
[22:39] <zequence> Nah, the realtime kernels have been worse since 3.0 or there around
[22:39] <holstein> i like the old kernels abogani and falk had
[22:39] <holstein> they work great...
[22:40] <zequence> The lowlatency kernel 2.6.37 was awesome
[22:40] <holstein> i need that damn nvidia driver for dual head :/
[22:40] <holstein> i might look into friendlier hardware for this though...
[22:41] <zequence> holstein: Here's a howto I made on building 2.6.38 lowlatency
[22:41] <zequence> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BuildOldLowlatency
[22:41] <holstein> zequence: cool.. i'll bm that for later
[22:45] <zequence> holstein: That is using the official ubuntu 2.6.38 kernel, and since you build not just the image, but also the headers, you'll be able to install proprietary graphic drivers
[22:45] <holstein> yeah, im fuzzy on all that
[22:46] <holstein> i glaze over about 3 lines in.. but thats where i am
[22:46] <holstein> i think i need a basic linux class or something, if im going to properly contribute
[22:46] <holstein> making my own kernel would be helpful it think
[22:46] <holstein> anyways.. i gotta go to work
[22:47] <zequence> holstein: Building a kernel in itself is not that difficult. But, I guess understanding each step might take a few moments to go through
[22:47] <holstein> picked up thursdays and fridays at a club here from thanksgiving til the end of the year :)
[22:47] <zequence> holstein: Have fun
[22:47] <holstein> zequence: its pretty daunting if you literally have no idea about he jargon
[22:48] <holstein> its like a question i got recently.. "whats the difference between a URL and an HTTP?"
[22:48] <holstein> i mean, you gotta unwind that a bit just to even say yes or no... and thats where i am with most of this lower level stuff
[22:48] <zequence> holstein: There are mostly three things to worry about. 1. vanilla or generic source? 2. make sure you have the right config file(the one that makes it -lowlatency) 3. command to build it
[22:48] <holstein> im not a coder.. and im not sure i want to be, but i like learning and helping support USB
[22:49] <holstein> US*
[22:49] <holstein> anyways... chow! and enjoy the evening/day!


[01:07] <mwhudson> LaserJock: so it seems broken to have two projects for matplotlib on launchpad
[01:07] <mwhudson> i guess one should be deactivated
[01:07] <LaserJock> mwhudson: well, if you want to import the code that actually goes into the released tarball I think  python2.4-matplotlib has the right branch
[01:07] <mwhudson> python2.4-matplotlib seems a little older and a little more active
[01:07] <mwhudson> but it has a silly name
[01:07] <LaserJock> yeah
[01:08] <LaserJock> can you move that branch to matplotlib?
[01:08] <LaserJock> it looks like somebody named the project after the package, not the actual project name
[01:08] <LaserJock> or even the source package name, as that's matplotlib too
[01:08] <mwhudson> another option would be to kill off the current matplotlib project and rename the python2.4-matplotlib to something more sensible
[01:10] <LaserJock> can you rename python2.4-matplotlib to matplotlib after killing the current one?
[01:10] <mwhudson> i can't, but an admin can
[01:10] <LaserJock> ok, I just wondered if there was some issue with renaming to something that had previously existed
[01:11] <mwhudson> well, i guess the admin can rename matplotlib to matplotlib-dead or something
[01:11] <mwhudson> LaserJock: can you ask a question for this?
[01:11] <LaserJock> well, I'd rather not have confusing cruft if we can help it
[01:12] <LaserJock> and yeah, I'll ask a question
[01:12] <LaserJock> should the question be for launchpad and not codehosting?
[01:12] <mwhudson> LaserJock: rename it to matplotlib-dead, then kill it, i mean
[01:12] <mwhudson> t
[01:12] <LaserJock> ah
[01:12] <mwhudson> LaserJock: yes, launchpad, this isn't really to do with codehosting any more
[01:12] <LaserJock> right
[01:12] <LaserJock> thanks for the help
[01:53] <timo> So when you fill a bug you click report and click the bug if there is a duplicate then thats it?
[01:58] <timo> any one/
[01:58] <poolie> timo: not sure i understand the question
[01:59] <poolie> if it suggests duplicates you can click the suggestion for more detail
[01:59] <timo> ok, Say i file a bug
[01:59] <poolie> if that is in fact the bug you've encounterd, tick its checkbox and press ok
[02:00] <timo> yes but i have reported many bugs but looking at my account says i have 3 bugs reported how?
[02:01] <poolie> can you give me the url of the page that says that?
[02:01] <timo> i just reported this bug but nothing has change in the original bug report https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/totem/+bug/173878
[02:02] <timo> Am i making sense ?
[02:02] <poolie> sure
[02:03] <poolie> what is it that you want to know?
[02:03] <timo> How do i file bugs
[02:03] <poolie> are you 'neptune'?
[02:04] <timo> in widows you just click on report , but in ubuntu you have to log on don't you? , then what
[02:05] <timo> no im tim
[02:05] <poolie> are you experiencing the same problem described in 173878?
[02:06] <poolie> or do you want to report a different bug?
[02:06] <timo> same problems
[02:07] <poolie> and do you have a launchpad account?
[02:07] <timo> and reported it by clicking on the report icon and clicking send then loged on and selected the bug that i thin it is
[02:07] <poolie> ok i see
[02:08] <timo> but the bug stays the same how do the debuggers know the bug has changes with new info.
[02:08] <poolie> and did you press 'ok' after choosing that bug?
[02:08] <poolie> um
[02:08] <poolie> maybe the 'choose a duplicate' page is confusing
[02:08] <timo> It still has the 2007 dates
[02:08] <poolie> did you click the link, or press the radiobutton?
[02:08] <timo> the link to the bug itself
[02:09] <poolie> ok
[02:09] <poolie> you need to back up in your browser history and pick the radio button
[02:09] <timo> no radio here bud https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/totem/+filebug/x4KFeLG8WJmJBZsA1EUY32fpgql
[02:11] <poolie> oh that's really interesting
[02:11] <poolie> i think you've found a launchpad bug or at least misdesign
[02:11] <timo> Hope im the only one
[02:12] <poolie> so, basically what i suggest you do is enter your own summary, even if it's similar to what's already there
[02:12] <timo> been reporting some time now
[02:12] <poolie> like 'totem crashed trying to play avi file' or whatever
[02:12] <timo> and place log files?
[02:14] <poolie> it should then automatically attach your files to that new bug
[02:14] <timo> thing is the crash is a bit random.
[02:15] <poolie> i suggest you just report a new bug with the files attached then
[02:15] <poolie> and as much description as you can give
[02:15] <timo> ok
[02:17] <timo> do you know where the log would be place om my computer for totem
[02:17] <poolie> not off hand
[02:18] <poolie> i filed bug 267971, you can comment on that too
[02:18] <poolie> or subscribe to it
[02:20] <timo> Its prob just me. and my computer nothing wrong with the bug system
[02:22] <timo> subscribed
[02:24] <timo> thanks for all the help
[05:15]  * Hobbsee wonders if there's any useful mail from launchpad she actually needs, apart from bugs.
[05:16] <Hobbsee> everything launchpad has a X-launchpad-* header now, doesn't it?
[05:18] <thumper> Hobbsee: it should have
[05:18] <thumper> Hobbsee: if it doesn't, then you should file a bug :)
[05:20] <Hobbsee> hmmm....
[05:20] <Hobbsee> which would hopefully get fixed relatively quickly, too
[05:20]  * Hobbsee looks at filters
[08:51] <Peng_> Hmm, team approval messages don't have an X-Launchpad-* header, just "X-Generated-By: Launchpad (canonical.com)".
[10:12] <wgrant> Hrmph.
[10:12] <wgrant> Is it deliberate that milestones don't have their own set of tabs?
[10:13] <wgrant> It seems impossible to escape from from a milestone's +subscribe, and one can't easily get from the blueprint list to bug list or vice versa.
[10:28] <fta> hi, i'm trying to use my new @ubuntu.com address but it doesn't work (yet). could anyone come to my rescue ? :)
[10:28] <gour> hello
[10:29] <gour> i've two active gpg keys at LP. is it possible to use 3rd email address and sign it with one of those 2 keys to submit bug-report to LP?
[10:29] <wgrant> fta: You want #canonical-sysadmin. They shouldn't bounce you around any more.
[10:30] <wgrant> But it won't happen immediately.
[10:30] <wgrant> As there's a cron job that does it, IIRC.
[10:30] <wgrant> gour: I think that the email address needs to match.
[10:30] <gour> i see
[10:30] <wgrant> Don't quote me on that, though.
[10:30] <gour> :-)
[10:31] <gour> well, let's make an experiment :-)
[10:31] <fta> wgrant, how often is that cron runing? daily? weekly? any idea?
[10:31] <gour> any test address where one can send testing bug report via email?
[10:32] <wgrant> fta: #canonical-sysadmin would know.
[10:35] <fta> wgrant, i thought it was a channel on a private server, apparently not ;)
[10:36] <wgrant> fta: #is the one on a private server.
[10:36] <wgrant> Er, "#is is the one"
[11:10] <Peng_> If I want to file a bug about a certain email not containing an X-Launchpad header, where should I do it? https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad ?
[11:12] <wgrant> Peng_: What is the email?
[11:13] <Leonidas> Could someone look into https://code.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/pyparsing/trunk ? It cannot be imported because something is broken, and before fixing that, it's useless to try to import every 5 hours.
[11:14] <Peng_> wgrant: Just the "you've been accepted into a team" one. It may not be worth reporting.
[11:14] <wgrant> Peng_: That's appropriate for launchpad-foundations.
[11:15] <mwhudson> Leonidas: done
[11:15] <Peng_> wgrant: So I should file it? Alright.
[11:17] <Leonidas> mwhudson: thanks. Now, is there a way to get it running? I suspected that I use the wrong URL for the SVN-Repo, but I'm not sure.
[11:17] <mwhudson> Leonidas: not with a repo layout like that, i think
[11:19] <mwhudson> Leonidas: unless importing just https://pyparsing.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/pyparsing/src/ would be useful
[11:20] <Leonidas> mwhudson: thats enough since the other folders are empty anyway.
[11:20] <mwhudson> Leonidas: oh, ok :)
[11:21] <Leonidas> (no idea why the repo layout is so strange %-)
[11:21] <mwhudson> running the import system you encounter all sorts of strange things :)
[11:22] <mwhudson> (cvs is better at total wtf-ness than svn though)
[11:24] <Leonidas> mwhudson: thanks. I tried contacting folks via email, but never got an answer.
[12:18] <ryanakca> I was wondering, would having to be both the admin of a team and the owner of a project to be able to set the team as the bug superviser for the project a bug? If someone wants to set a team as the bug supervisor, and the team wants to receive the bugmail, but whoever owns the project isn't an admin in the bug-email team / doesn't want to be, wouldn't they be stuck?
[12:43] <Hobbsee> fta: re: email:  don't use your gmail account to test it, if it's forwarding to a gmail acccount.
[12:44] <fta> Hobbsee, don't worry, i didn't. it's fine now, thanks to elmo
[12:45] <Hobbsee> fta: ah, cool.  various other people have, and have run into that problem.
[12:49] <jpds> fta: :(
[12:49] <fta> Hobbsee, .. and thanks to jpds :)
[12:49] <Hobbsee> :)
[12:51] <fta> i'm all smile today.. great success with a project at work, and motu since yesterday :)
[12:51]  * fta is happy
[12:52]  * fta hugs everyone
[12:53]  * jpds hugs fta.
[14:48] <gour> is it possible to set 'importance' and 'tag' for newly created bug via email interface?
[14:48] <Hobbsee> yes
[14:48] <Hobbsee> afaik, anyway.
[14:48] <Hobbsee> assuming you have rights to do so normally
[14:49] <gour> well, if i'm member of the team
[14:49] <beuno> gour, https://help.launchpad.net/Bugs/EmailInterface
[14:49] <gour> beuno: not clear from that docs, or if you can point it out ?
[14:50] <Hobbsee> gour: erm...
[14:50] <Hobbsee> gour: try the headings marked 'importance' and 'tag'
[14:50] <beuno> :)
[14:51] <Hobbsee> they're also in the contents thing, in case you missed htat.
[14:51] <gour> importance - Change the importance of a bug. but it's not clear if it can be set for a new bug
[14:51] <beuno> AFAIK, those apply to new and existing bugs
[14:52]  * beuno pokes BjornT
[14:52] <Hobbsee> you can change it all at any time.
[14:52] <gour> i know i can change, but i want to set for new bugs which will be forwarded automatically
[14:53] <BjornT> gour: yes, you can set them when filing new bugs
[14:53] <gour> BjornT: thanks a lot. nice
[14:53] <beuno> thanks BjornT  :)
[14:55]  * gour had to find workaround for creating bug tickets out of automatic bug-reports sent from within the application. all just for the sake to make project use LP and then move to bzr :-)
[15:33] <fta> what are "private builds" ?
[15:38] <bigjools> builds done in a private PPA
[16:11] <cody-somerville> OOPS-983ED85
[16:46]  * Ursinha looks at the oops
[16:50] <cody-somerville> the link in PPA build failures still uses internal launchpad address
[16:56] <Ursinha> where?
[17:06] <kiko> cody-somerville, didn't we update the configs?
[17:06] <kiko> bigjools, ^^^
[17:06] <cody-somerville> Ursinha, in la e-mails
[17:06]  * bigjools looks
[17:15] <bigjools> cody-somerville: can you file a bug and attach the email please
[17:26] <samtb> i'm having trouble branching the mplayer bzr - i keep getting "error not a branch" from bzr
[17:26] <samtb> other branches work
[17:27] <samtb> i have tried launchpad-login but still no luck
[17:28] <samtb> sam@wildthing:~/dev/mplayer/bzr/mplayer$ bzr launchpad-login sambrightman
[17:28] <samtb> sam@wildthing:~/dev/mplayer/bzr/mplayer$ bzr branch lp:~ubuntu-dev/mplayer/ubuntu dev
[17:28] <samtb> bzr: ERROR: Not a branch<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[17:28] <samtb> could someone please help me figure out what's going on here?
[17:32] <kiko> let me check that out
[17:33] <kiko> abentley, what's going on in the above?
[17:34] <samtb> it doesn't work over http either
[17:34] <samtb> (and ubuntu-hardy branch is empty... maybe that's just the way it is?)
[17:36] <LaserJock> Launchpad's munging of changelog entries is very "not nice". Please do *not* represent data as something it's not
[17:37] <bigjools> LaserJock: can you elaborate please?
[17:37] <LaserJock> it's a problem that's been known about for several releases and needs to be fixed now
[17:38] <LaserJock> attributing changelog entries to the wrong people
[17:38] <LaserJock> primarily for syncs I believe
[17:38] <bigjools> can you give me a specific example of that, and I'll look
[17:38] <LaserJock> sure
[17:38] <bigjools> thanks
[17:38] <LaserJock> compare https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+source/tuxpaint-stamps/2008.03.01-1
[17:38] <LaserJock> and http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/main/t/tuxpaint-stamps/tuxpaint-stamps_2008.03.01-1/changelog
[17:39] <bigjools> perfect, thanks
[17:39] <LaserJock> not only did Launchpad strip the attribution from the right person
[17:39] <LaserJock> it fakes somebody else's into it
[17:39] <LaserJock> a changelog is *very* easy to get, please use it
[17:40] <bigjools> LaserJock: please file a bug if you haven't already and I'll push it through
[17:40] <LaserJock> lol
[17:40] <samtb> kiko: any ideas?
[17:40] <LaserJock> a bug has been around for probably a year on this
[17:41] <kiko> samtb, I need abentley to help me out here
[17:41] <kiko> unless rockstar knows what it could be?
[17:41] <samtb> before i used lp-login
[17:41]  * rockstar perks up
[17:42] <samtb> the error message was referring to http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-dev/mplayer/ubuntu/.bzr/branch/
[17:42] <LaserJock> bigjools: see bug #55795 for instance, filed in *2006*
[17:42] <samtb> which colin suggested was old layout or something?
[17:43] <bigjools> LaserJock: thanks
[17:44] <rockstar> samtb, there seems to be a problem with that branch.
[17:44] <samtb> :( isn't it the main/current branch?
[17:44] <samtb> intrepid's ubuntu15 seems to be from that plus one change from nhandler
[17:44] <samtb> from what i can tell
[17:45] <samtb> but as i said, ubuntu-hardy is empty and ubuntu-intrepid doesn't exist
[17:45] <rockstar> samtb, let me take a look at this.
[17:45] <LaserJock> bigjools: see also bug #139162 and bug #247456 for related
[17:46] <LaserJock> changelog entries are such an unbelievable simple thing for Launchpad to do utterly wrong
[17:47] <samtb> rockstar: i'm gonna have to leave for the night very shortly, can be back tomorrow
[17:48] <rockstar> samtb, alright.
[17:48] <samtb> rockstar: what time zone/eta?
[17:48] <samtb> roughly
[17:49] <rockstar> samtb, well, not sure an the ETA, but it's a high priority.
[17:49] <samtb> i mean when you'll be around here :)
[17:50] <emet> hey about karma
[17:50] <samtb> or shall i just leave you to it and keep trying - anything i can do?
[17:50] <emet> does karma take a while to update?
[17:51] <beuno> emet, yes, it updates every 24hs
[17:51] <beuno> ish
[18:01] <\sh> hmm...
[18:01] <\sh> is it planed to have a check against "application name" inside lpapi for apps which are already approved under the same name?
[18:03] <ubuntuser> Who help me? https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/mail-notification/+question/44261
[18:03] <\sh> or is it possible to "reserve" some consumer_key idents for "special" apps?
[18:03] <ubuntuser> is about mailing lists
[18:04] <ubuntuser> jcastro: https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/mail-notification/+question/44261 - Help us! Please....
[18:05] <jcastro> barry: help!
[18:05] <barry> jcastro: hi
[18:06] <ubuntuser> thx...
[18:06] <jcastro> ok, I believe this list was declined initially, and then after that it was decided to have it on launchpad
[18:06] <jcastro> but when they reapplied it came up with that error
[18:07] <ubuntuser> initially.. yes..
[18:08] <barry> jcastro, ubuntuser question updated
[18:08] <jcastro> barry: thanks!
[18:08] <barry> jcastro, ubuntuser let me know if you need more info
[18:08] <jcastro> I suspect that fixing it now would require mangle-age that isn't allowed. :p
[18:10] <ubuntuser> the same problem: The application for this team's mailing list has been declined. Please contact a Launchpad administrator for further assistance.
[18:10] <jcastro> ubuntuser: he meants subscribe to the bug, once it's fixed you'll apply again
[18:11] <ubuntuser> Ahh.. ok!
[18:11] <jcastro> ubuntuser: go here and click "subscribe" https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad-foundations/+bug/237210
[18:11] <ubuntuser> thanks jcastro and barry
[18:12] <jcastro> cheers!
[18:12] <barry> np!
[19:16] <patpiiii> hello
[19:16] <patpiiii> any admin available?
[19:17] <patpiiii> I'm in great need of this reassignation https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/44018
[19:17] <patpiiii> is this possible?
[19:20] <abentley> kiko: Sorry, was on lunch.
[19:20] <kiko> abentley, no problemo
[19:20] <kiko> patpiiii, hangona
[19:21] <kiko> patpiiii, the right way to fix that problem would have been to merge the accounts!
[19:21] <abentley> kiko: Do you want me to look at this now?
[19:21] <kiko> patpiiii, I'll reassign to kamil fwiw
[19:21] <kiko> abentley, I'd like to understand how a hosted branch can fail bzr branching, yes
[19:23] <patpiiii> kiko:
[19:23] <abentley> kiko: There's no branch there, just a repository.
[19:23] <patpiiii> but the first Arvanil account was deleted
[19:23] <patpiiii> now it is Kamil Dziedzic
[19:23] <patpiiii> so merge is impossible
[19:24] <patpiiii> (i think)
[19:24] <patpiiii> so if you can pleas assign this to me, "patpi"
[19:24] <kiko> abentley, but visiting the page I see revisions
[19:24] <patpiiii> or to kamil
[19:24] <\sh> kiko: is it planned to package launchpadlib for intrepid?
[19:24] <patpiiii> can kamil later add another admin to this project?
[19:24] <kiko> patpiiii, indeed it is impossible now. I can reassign to kamil as he requested it.
[19:24] <kiko> \sh, absolutely 100% yes
[19:25] <patpiiii> ok, but then he would be abble to add me also to admins
[19:25] <patpiiii> because i will setup those trabnslations
[19:25] <\sh> kiko: ok..I'll have httplib2 0.4.0 handy...so UVE is on its way
[19:26] <kiko> \sh, ah, you are the man, thanks so much -- if you can help packaging that flacoste and leonardr have a much easier life
[19:26] <\sh> kiko: har...I'm glad that I found the time to integrate lplib now into leonov (at least the approval stuff)
[19:26] <\sh> I'm really busy regarding company life
[19:27] <\sh> ok...off I been
[19:28] <kiko> \sh, thanks
[19:28] <abentley> kiko: My guess is that the mirrored copy is broken but the read-write copy is not.
[19:28] <kiko> abentley, except that.. well, using bzr+ssh didn't work either? it's weird weird weird.
[19:29] <abentley> kiko: I don't have write permissions on that project, so I always see the mirrored copy.
[19:29] <kiko> I see
[19:29] <abentley> kiko: Even over bzr+ssh.
[19:29] <kiko> abentley, thanks, at least now I know what the problem could be
[19:30] <abentley> kiko: Do your superpowers allow you to see the read-write copy?
[19:31] <kiko> abentley, probably not me either, but give me the branch URL and I'll find a writer to test for us
[19:31] <abentley> kiko: It's the same bzr+ssh URL.
[19:31] <cody-somerville> weird
[19:31] <cody-somerville> links *on* launchpad are pointing to the internal domain name
[19:31] <kiko> abentley, it scrolled off my screen :)
[19:32] <abentley> kiko: run "bzr info bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-dev/mplayer/ubuntu/".  It should not say "Unshared repository with trees"
[19:32] <patpiiii> so, kiko, can you assign it also to me?
[19:33] <kiko> Unshared repository with trees (format: unnamed)
[19:33] <abentley> kiko: Right, sorry.  I meant for the writer to run that.
[19:33] <abentley> kiko: It's supposed to say "Standalone branch"
[19:39] <kiko> abentley, cody-somerville tells me it's Standalone branch (format: unnamed)
[19:39] <kiko> abentley, so something's broken in the mirrorring
[19:40] <abentley> kiko: Okay, I'll get someone to stomp on it.
[19:40] <kiko> thanks aaron
[19:42] <abentley> kiko: Is there a bug #, or someone to notify?
[19:43] <kiko> abentley, well, all I had was scrollback, so I don't really know -- don't think so. cody-somerville, did you submit a question for that?
[19:46] <cody-somerville> for the links issue? no
[19:47] <patpiiii> thanks kiko, bye
[20:26] <DnaX> How can i remove a wrong Ubuntu package link?
[20:28] <kiko> DnaX, it depends. for some it works in the UI, for others, it requires a DB run. where's the wrong link?
[20:28] <DnaX> https://edge.launchpad.net/ircp-tray
[20:28] <DnaX> exits only Intrepid package
[20:31] <psycose> hi
[20:32] <DnaX> kiko: so?
[20:32] <kiko> DnaX, it requires a DB patch. good grief
[20:32] <DnaX> and... who can this?
[20:33] <DnaX> can do this*
[20:34] <psycose> i use dput to upload a package on my PPA, the *source.upload says everything ok but nohing happens on the PPA builder ... that is still idle ... any tips ? thanks
[20:37] <cprov-afk> psycose: were you notified by email about the upload acceptance/rejection ?
[20:38] <DnaX> kiko: who can do this DB patch?
[20:38] <psycose> cprov-afk: no in fact i launch the dput this more than 12 hours ago ...
[20:39] <kiko> DnaX, i'm trying to find an OSA but they are not here, so I'd ask you to use answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
[20:39] <cprov-afk> psycose: uhm, do another upload and I will trace it for you.
[20:40] <psycose> cprov-afk: woops i'm sorry ... i did not saw the mail saying it was rejected ... (hide by debian-release mailing list so hudge)
[20:41] <cprov-afk> psycose: np, let me know if you need any help to sort out the rejection issue.
[20:43] <psycose> cprov-afk: ok thanks for your help
[20:43] <cprov-afk> psycose: you're welcome.
[21:01] <DnaX> kiko: ok, I ask there
[21:03] <kiko> DnaX, thanks man
[21:03] <DnaX> bye
[21:49] <abentley> kiko, samtb: ~/ubuntu-dev/mplayer/ubuntu is working now.
[21:50] <abentley> cody-somerville: Please consider upgrading ~ubuntu-dev/mplayer/ubuntu to packs.
[21:51] <cody-somerville> abentley, it isn't my branch :P
[21:51] <abentley> cody-somerville: You have write access :-P
[21:51] <cody-somerville> true


[01:26] <Elleo> okay... next problem; how do I prevent my app from being suspended when it gets put in the background/the phone gets locked?
[02:26] <Elleo> ah, from browsing the mailinglist archives it'd seem running apps in the background isn't supported at all :/
[02:26] <Elleo> that's rather crippling for a music player
[02:33] <Elleo> heh, found a crude way of hacking around that restriction for now, at least until proper background daemon stuff is implemented
[02:45] <Elleo> perhaps not, that seems to lead to mir crashing a lot :/
[08:42] <popey> Elleo: we can set exceptions for some apps
[09:01] <Elleo> popey: yeah, I just noticed that the music app had its apparmor thing set as "unconfined"
[09:02] <Elleo> was about to see if I could do that myself :P but I guess it needs special privileges
[09:03] <Elleo> popey: who should I speak to about getting such an exception?
[09:07] <popey> good question
[09:07] <popey> i know if you set it unconfined in the click package and submit it to the store, we get stopped and have to manually review the code
[09:07] <popey> we already have some exceptions, music is just one
[09:08] <Elleo> setting it to unconfined doesn't seem to alter the background behaviour
[09:08] <Elleo> unless apparmor is still using the old profile
[09:09] <popey> oh, no, sorry, I was confused
[09:09] <Elleo> oh?
[09:10]  * ogra_ desparately tries to get a back button in a qml wrapped webapp ...
[09:10] <ogra_> seems there is no documentation for UbuntuWebView at all
[09:12] <ogra_> my app has a toolbar, but no objects in it ... i would imagine enabling a toolbar button should just be matter of setting a property, but i cant seem to be able to find which one
[09:14] <popey> Elleo: there's a lengthy thread on it at the moment on the ubuntu phone list
[09:14] <popey> "Thoughts on inhibiting app suspend via application lifecycle"
[09:15] <Elleo> okay, will take a look
[09:15] <Elleo> I found a few posts from a while back mentioning future plans to allow apps to have daemons in the background
[09:15] <popey> unfortunately it's still a bit up in the air
[09:15] <popey> yes, exacly
[09:15] <Elleo> which would be kind of doable, but a massive pain
[09:15] <popey> so not complete yet
[09:15] <Elleo> since it'd involve completely refactoring the app
[09:16] <popey> well it's possible we may have a background service provided by the system for music specifically
[09:16] <Elleo> not entirely sure that'd help with spotify
[09:16] <Elleo> since it has to process small buffers of audio data sent from libspotify
[09:16] <Elleo> rather than something that can be easily handed off to a non-spotify aware process
[09:17] <popey> right
[09:17] <popey> worth bringing up on the list then
[09:17] <Elleo> will do
[12:12] <karty> hello
[12:12] <karty> is there any IDE to design touch apps over drag and drop?
[12:13] <karty> other than QTcreater
[12:57] <goldenratio> Hey.. need help
[12:58] <goldenratio> I can't find Ubuntu Touch under project templates..
[15:59] <karty> hello em kinda new to this app development stuff but not to programming .... need some info regarding the development stuff pattern. somebody could help me out please ?
[16:03] <Elleo> karty: not entirely sure what you mean by "development stuff pattern"? but there's a slim chance I might be able to answer a question or two
[16:03] <Elleo> I've only been hacking around with ubuntu touch stuff for a few days though
[18:04] <alinaseri25> REGISTER m09361996698<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[18:55] <nik90> Hi Everyone, Can anyone let me know where I can find documentation concerning friends and sharing images or text with social networks?
[18:55] <nik90> I intend to write a post similar to http://nik90.com/adding-infographics-to-ubuntu-phone/ to make it clear for users to quickly pick up that feature in their programs
[19:03] <popey> nik90: someone else was looking for that. i couldn't turn up any docs, but it seems ureadit (on lp) has code to do that
[19:03] <popey> sharing that is
[19:05] <nik90> popey: ah okay. That should be good enough
[19:05] <nik90> thnx
[21:32] <aquarius> mzanetti, ping
[21:32] <aquarius> mzanetti, the xbmc remote is yours, yes?
[21:33] <aquarius> mzanetti, it won't connect to my xbmc: the host is detected, but tapping the host says "connection failed: connection refused". The xbmc remote on my iphone connects and controls xbmc fine, so I don't think it's a server issue.
[22:24] <nik90> aquarius: take a look at https://plus.google.com/111980561516715514914/posts/33cvBpAzhWK
[22:25] <nik90> aquarius: the OP solves it in his comments
[22:25] <aquarius> aaah, so he does
[22:25] <aquarius> nice
[22:26] <aquarius> that suggests...what? that the xbmc remote forr Ubuntu Touch works differently to other remotes?
[22:26] <aquarius> still, if it works, I'm happy :)
[22:26] <nik90> :)
[22:30] <aquarius> and... that does in fact work. Sweet.
[22:30] <aquarius> thank you :)
[22:38] <a_muva> anyone familiar  with FolderListModel in QLM?
[23:00] <aquarius> a_muva, mot in any detail, I'm afraid. I used it once, but a while ago. Sorry.
[23:01] <a_muva> I'm trying pass a variable to folder property but it's not working., not sure why.
[23:02] <a_muva> if I hard code the string everything works but if I use string property it does not.
[23:03] <a_muva> somethink like folder: "/home/user"- works
[23:03] <a_muva> but folder: userPath - does not
[23:30] <aquarius> weird.
[23:32] <Elleo> when is the userPath property being populated?
[23:32] <Elleo> is it possible that FolderListModel is loading when its still empty and then not handling the change correctly?
[23:34] <aquarius> that's what I was wondering
[23:34] <aquarius> the whole declarative magic does tend to screw up in that sort of situation :)
[23:35] <Elleo> heh
[23:35] <aquarius> actually...shouldn't it be something.userPath ?
[23:35] <aquarius> if userPath is a property *on* folderlistmodel, why would you not just set folder directly?
[23:35] <Elleo> depends, it might be a context property
[23:36] <Elleo> rather than a property of a qml thing


[14:29] <cpaelzer> o/
[14:29] <cpaelzer> #startmeeting Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status
[14:29] <meetingology> Meeting started at 14:29:49 UTC.  The chair is cpaelzer.  Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
[14:29] <meetingology> Available commands: action, commands, idea, info, link, nick
[14:30] <cpaelzer> hi ddstreet jamespage sarnold doko didrocks
[14:30] <cpaelzer> I feel I'd have forgotten someone ...
[14:30] <didrocks> hey
[14:30] <jamespage> o/
[14:30] <cpaelzer> let me know if I did
[14:30] <cpaelzer> #topic Review of previous action items
[14:30] <cpaelzer> We ahve concluded the modification to the testing-requirements last week
[14:31] <cpaelzer> the wiki was updated right away
[14:31] <cpaelzer> that is done
[14:31] <cpaelzer> Furthermore I have asked all of you to think about rust, if there is anything in particular let me know in the final "other business" section
[14:31] <sarnold> good morning
[14:31] <cpaelzer> if not I can already tell you that I started a discussion about it with various people in foudntations that are close to rust
[14:32] <cpaelzer> ok, let us get the MIR status going and see if we have open work
[14:32] <cpaelzer> #topic current component mismatches
[14:32] <cpaelzer> #link https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches-proposed.svg
[14:32] <cpaelzer> #link https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.svg
[14:32] <cpaelzer> libnet-snmp-perl is ready and promotable which allows amavisd-new to pass
[14:32] <cpaelzer> see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libnet-snmp-perl/+bug/1936970
[14:33] <cpaelzer> didrocks: you did the review, could you maybe resolve that later?
[14:33] <cpaelzer> by promoting the package
[14:33] <didrocks> cpaelzer: sure, will do
[14:33] <cpaelzer> thanks in advance
[14:34] <cpaelzer> the rest seems to be the usual set of known cases and false positives
[14:34] <cpaelzer> what is the expectation on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python-cheroot/+bug/1930111
[14:34] <cpaelzer> it seems assigned to security
[14:34] <jamespage> looking
[14:35] <cpaelzer> @jamespage is the expectation for this in this cycle or anytime later?
[14:35] <jamespage> from my perspective its not critical for this release - ceph dash works fine with the current version
[14:36] <jamespage> however that does level the cherrypy3 sync/merge from debian dangling
[14:36] <cpaelzer> ok, good to know
[14:36] <cpaelzer> indeed
[14:36] <jamespage> so it may have wider unable to sync/merge impacts than I'm aware of
[14:36] <cpaelzer> sarnold: how full/long do the queues look these days?
[14:37] <sarnold> cpaelzer: only egl-wayland has been finished in recent times..
[14:37] <cpaelzer> well, that is better than nothing
[14:37] <cpaelzer> just asking for cherrypy3 to manage expectations
[14:37] <cpaelzer> not to put pressure on you
[14:38] <sarnold> openstack team wants octavia, python-cheroot; server team wants fence-agents, telegraf; foundations / server wants busybox (conversation here); desktop wants libbluray, security team wants a raft of smartcard packages
[14:38] <cpaelzer> ok, quite a list indeed
[14:38] <didrocks> (and desktop wants adsys, which is still not reviewed after a month and half :/ and that, without counting security team review time)
[14:39] <cpaelzer> doko: ^^
[14:39] <cpaelzer> let me be a bit offensive here doko would it help to ping mclemenceau_ (which we hereby do) to get some other things off your back to get adsys processed) ?
[14:39] <cpaelzer> ok thanks sarnold
[14:40] <cpaelzer> enough for this section I think
[14:40] <cpaelzer> ok, we can short-cut the next two sections - no new inbound MIRs and no recent updates except https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mdevctl/+bug/1942394 which belongs to the rust topic that I already mentioned
[14:40] <cpaelzer> which gets us to
[14:40] <cpaelzer> #topic Any other business?
[14:40] <cpaelzer> as I mentione I think of rust* a lot recently
[14:40] <cpaelzer> I'm playing with the thought of ammending the MIR rules for the common concept in (go/rust) these
[14:41] <cpaelzer> the point is that way too often the libs are super small and not really testable non-superficially on their own
[14:41] <cpaelzer> if they have e.g. unit-tests they are run at build time anyway
[14:41] <cpaelzer> but I wondere if for those cases we would want to ammend the rules to require the testing on the solution level
[14:42] <cpaelzer> so if package FOO is MIRed providing an actual use case, then that/those use-case(s) shall be tested - thereby excercising the libs in that scope
[14:42] <cpaelzer> if later package BAR comes in it might excercise other paths and thereby should also be reuqired to test, even if some dependencies are in main already
[14:42] <cpaelzer> many of those libs are automatically packaged
[14:43] <cpaelzer> and keeping the testing on the solution level would help a lot
[14:43] <cpaelzer> that much as a current brain-dump
[14:43] <cpaelzer> if there are opinions now let me know, otherwise I might come by at some point suggesting a rule change with something like that
[14:43] <didrocks> I agree with this, the most important testing is always IMHO the integration tests from an user perspective, then the rest is more for "developers" to debug and exercise their code (and corner cases. As long as the solution is great in term of testing, it will test the library as well. Also, it will only test the interesting part (for that solution) of that lib, and will be more focused
[14:44] <didrocks> And if you start depending on a particular lib, even not really tested, well, you own the responsability of that lib behaviour on the solution level anyway…
[14:44] <cpaelzer> ok good to hear that I'm not fully off with my thought
[14:44] <sarnold> you've been far more productive thinking about this than I have; the closest I've come is a general feeling that we really ought to have someone or two on board who just loves updating deps in rust applications, handling the breakage, reporting breaks upstreams, etc
[14:44] <cpaelzer> I'll ahve to review the other MIR rules if there are also others that make more sense on that level
[14:45] <sarnold> (same also goes for golang)
[14:46] <cpaelzer> I'm pushing for it at foundations, but that is separate to streamlining the rules to be "more doable"
[14:46] <cpaelzer> it = more resources for them
[14:46] <cpaelzer> and I have dived into dynamic libs for rust which was a nice learning experience but won't help us
[14:46] <cpaelzer> ok, that might be it for today
[14:47] <cpaelzer> anything else
[14:47] <sarnold> nothing from me
[14:47] <didrocks> nothing either
[14:48] <cpaelzer> ok then
[14:48] <cpaelzer> let me close for today then
[14:48] <cpaelzer> thank you all
[14:48] <cpaelzer> #endmeeting
[14:48] <meetingology> Meeting ended at 14:48:35 UTC.  Minutes at https://new.ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2021/ubuntu-meeting.2021-09-07-14.29.moin.txt
[14:48] <sarnold> thanks cpaelzer, all :)
[14:48] <didrocks> thanks everyone!
[18:07] <Bashing-om> ping diddledani


[17:44] <balloons> elopio, I need to pick your brain for a minute. So I want to use the textfield emulator, but the app has defined it's own object that simply contains a textfield. How can I still use the helper?
[17:45] <elopio> balloons: if autopilot sees the name of the extended class, you can also extend TextField on python. Take a look at the clock, we are doing that.
[17:45] <elopio> balloons: if autopilot sees TextField even if it's extended, then you won't have to do anything. This is the most common case.
[17:45] <balloons> elopio, thanks I'll take a look
[17:46] <balloons> elopio, no the object is indeed the custom name
[17:46] <balloons> but the base qml is still textfield
[17:46] <elopio> balloons: yes, on the clock, I don't remember the name of the component.
[17:46] <elopio> it's like TextFieldWithDots
[17:46] <elopio> or something like that.
[17:46] <balloons> elopio, ahh
[17:46] <balloons> class LabelDots(toolkit_emulators.TextField):
[17:46] <balloons>     """Autopilot helper for the LabelDots component."""
[17:47] <balloons> brillant
[17:47] <balloons> the trouble is I'm digging myself in deeper to redoing the setup for this test :-)
[17:48] <elopio> that's it. kudos to the clever autopilot developers that let us play with the weird inheritance in python and in QML.
[17:48] <elopio> balloons: redoing setups, I like that.
[17:48] <balloons> elopio, I'm treading carefully
[17:48] <balloons> It's just hard to see custom code not using the helpers
[17:49] <balloons> elopio, oO.. can we not handle TextArea's?
[17:50] <elopio> balloons: TextAreas I think that need a separate helper.
[17:50] <balloons> elopio, it should be able to inherit much of the textfield helper
[17:50] <balloons> one of my inputs is a textarea...
[17:50] <balloons> see, this is why we don't travel down the rabbit hole :-)
[17:51] <elopio> balloons: in QML, text area is not an extended text field.
[17:51] <elopio> but yes, we can do many of the things through composition. Shouldn't be hard.
[17:51] <elopio> balloons: you can convince la_juyis to implement that one :)
[17:52] <balloons> elopio, ohh, I was going to do it.. hehe.. Julia is even better
[17:53] <elopio> balloons: even better if you two pair-program.
[17:53] <balloons> I'm going to cheat and do the same with textarea for this hahah
[17:53] <elopio> :(
[17:56] <balloons> elopio, indeed if you inherit the textfield emulator it works fine
[17:56] <balloons> so it's cheating for my needs, but I think I can ship it
[17:57] <balloons> we'll still do a proper textarea helper, and I'll comment and link to a bug for it
[18:00] <balloons> elopio, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/+bug/1327354
[18:00] <balloons> see, I'm not so mean!
[18:17] <elopio> cgoldberg: do you know of any changes on autopilot to the pid property of the app proxy object?


[18:24] <theadmin> Hi. I'm sorry if this is the wrong place, but I'd like to ask a few questions about an Ubuntu membership and /msg alis list #ubuntu* is far from helpful, this is the first place that came to mind, though.
[18:25] <theadmin> So the first question is, is this the right channel?
[18:27] <IdleOne> theadmin: it is
[18:27] <IdleOne> what questions do you have?
[18:28] <IdleOne> !membership
[18:28] <IdleOne> the above may answer some if not all of them.
[18:28] <theadmin> IdleOne: Well, first off I understand that to obtain such a membership, I need to have made significant contributions of one sort or another... The only things I made was support in #ubuntu, a few bugs reported, and a few translations on Launchpad ages ago. I'm far from sure this is enough. Any chance it is?
[18:28] <theadmin> Sorry, long typing.
[18:29] <theadmin> Been at that page already :)
[18:30] <IdleOne> contributions on irc are definitely considered, is it depends on how long you have been doing it and what your fellow channel helpers and ops have to say about it also
[18:30] <IdleOne> is it enough*
[18:31] <IdleOne> so, yes. helping in #ubuntu is one of the ways
[18:31] <theadmin> I sure hope they noticed me helping now and then, well, I've been running Ubuntu since about 2008 and been hanging in IRC asking and trying to answer questions... a bunch of that time. Not all. Not when I was on other distros
[18:32] <IdleOne> The distro you use is not as important as the quality of help given.
[18:34] <IdleOne> You may want to consider applying via the Ubuntu IRC Council if the lion share of your contributions are through IRC.
[18:35] <theadmin> Sorry, distraction here, be back in a bit
[18:35] <IdleOne> no worries
[18:39] <theadmin> IdleOne: Okay, I'm back. Sorry about that. Yeah, probably the most contributions I made would be IRC support, so the council is the best choice then?
[18:40] <pleia2> theadmin: also worth noting how important testimonials are, if someone is familiar with your work in #ubuntu you can ask them to write a testimonal on the wiki page you prepare speaking to their support of your work
[18:40] <IdleOne> the IRCC has the authority to grant Ubuntu membership, it is equal to any other of councils
[18:41] <IdleOne> theadmin: I would suggest you go via the IRCC as they would be best place and like pleia2 suggested, testimonials!
[18:41] <theadmin> pleia2: Yeah, gotta prepare the wiki page first, too. Not exactly sure how to prepare it, the "Contributions" section in the example page is... uh... nonsense for the most part.
[18:43] <IdleOne> PROTIP: Don't be shy to ask the ubuntu ops for testimonials.
[18:43] <IdleOne> We only bite a little :)
[18:43] <theadmin> IdleOne: Good point :)
[18:45] <pleia2> theadmin: yikes, the membership example template has been all messed up! looking into fixing it up
[18:46] <theadmin> pleia2: Oh, good, I thought it was supposed to be that way or something, kinda "figure it out yourself" thing
[18:47] <IdleOne> looks like someone used it as their own wiki
[18:47] <IdleOne> happens
[18:47] <pleia2> sorted
[18:47] <theadmin> IdleOne: Funny how it's marked as immutable. Wonder how someone managed to mess it up then
[18:47] <pleia2> the template is pretty sparse
[18:47] <theadmin> pleia2: Thanks, will take a look now
[18:48] <IdleOne> theadmin: must have been edited before an admin marked it or a higher level page as immutable
[18:48] <IdleOne> not sure to be honest, I suck at wiki
[18:49] <pleia2> I'm no special admin and I was able to edit it, theadmin are you sure you're logged in?
[18:49] <theadmin> pleia2: Not to be nitpicky but "your GTalt username".
[18:49] <IdleOne> fixed
[18:49] <theadmin> Yeah, huh. Odd, I'm almost certain I saw "Immutable" instead of "Edit" a few minutes ago
[18:49] <theadmin> Must be hallucinating or something
[18:50] <pleia2> theadmin: what's wrong with including Gtalk?
[18:50] <pleia2> (Ubuntu folks use Google Hangouts a lot, maybe that's why they included it?)
[18:50] <theadmin> pleia2: Nothing about it, but it's "gtalT" over there, not "gtalK"
[18:50] <pleia2> theadmin: not on my screen
[18:50] <pleia2> GTalk
[18:50] <pleia2> your GTalk username
[18:51] <theadmin> pleia2: IdleOne fixed it a few minutes ago, yep
[18:51] <pleia2> looking at this template, right? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MembershipTemplate
[18:51] <pleia2> ah ok
[18:51] <IdleOne> there was a typo. I fixed it.
[18:51] <theadmin> Anyway, how should I call my wiki page, any special syntax or do I just use my launchpad name or what?
[18:51]  * IdleOne wants cookie reward now
[18:51] <pleia2> typically it's your launchpad name
[18:52]  * Fuchs force-feds IdleOne a cookie
[18:52] <IdleOne> I hate the feds!
[18:52] <theadmin> !cookie | IdleOne
[18:52] <IdleOne> thank you
[18:52] <Fuchs> IdleOne: they replacd my keyboard :(
[18:54] <theadmin> Is including a real "real name" important? I kind of hate my real name for, uh, certain 'real-life' reasons, even my Launchpad name/IRC whois info uses an alias. That won't get me declined or anything right?
[18:54] <IdleOne> you don't have to if you don't want to
[18:56] <AlanBell> lots of people who gained membership through the forums don't have a declared real name
[18:57] <Unit193> I went with a "normal" membership council and didn't inform what mine was.
[19:00] <IdleOne> real name is optional. As a membership board member I would never decline someone for wanting to have some privacy.
[19:02] <IdleOne> Fuchs: lol, so you can only use 1 e at a time?
[19:03] <theadmin> Okay then, goals... huh. This is a hard part.
[19:03] <Fuchs> yes, no double leters
[19:03] <IdleOne> Fuchs: doesn't sem to afect you much
[19:09] <theadmin> Okay then, here we go: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/theadmin- -- does that look good?
[19:09] <theadmin> (the - at the end of the link is supposed to be part of it, Launchpad nickname)
[19:24] <theadmin> IdleOne, pleia2: You still around?
[19:31] <IdleOne> looks alright to me.
[19:31] <theadmin> Yay :)
[19:32] <IdleOne> if you've contributed to any of the ubuntu wiki pages you should list which.
[19:34] <theadmin> Eh... I remember modifying some awfully outdated page but can't remember which anymore
[19:41] <theadmin> Anyhow, now that that's done I should get me some testimonals and attend an IRC council meeting... Uh, the wiki says the next one is in December 2012.
[19:41] <theadmin> That's... long ago.
[19:42] <IdleOne> oh, membership also requires the invention of time travel
[19:42] <IdleOne> AlanBell: might want to update the council agenda page
[19:44] <theadmin> IdleOne: Well, I already have a microwave so all I've gotta do is hook it up to a cell-phone and find a CRT TV...
[19:44] <IdleOne> shh, if you say how to do it in here the next person will have an easier time
[19:45] <theadmin> IdleOne: You're right. El Psy Congroo.
[19:45]  * genii-around steals IdleOne's cookie
[19:46]  * IdleOne brakes genii-around's coffee pot
[19:47]  * genii-around weeps
[19:47] <IdleOne> genii-around: wanna buy a snooker table?
[19:49] <theadmin> IdleOne: Anyway, you were the one who suggested me to ask the ops for testimonals, so if you don't mind... Well, that is, if you do have something nice to say.
[19:50] <AlanBell> IdleOne: yeah, good plan :)
[19:51] <IdleOne> theadmin: I will definitely give my testimonial but not right now.
[19:51] <theadmin> IdleOne: Oh, sure thing :) It's not like I'm in a rush for this or anything
[19:52] <IdleOne> Dear people of the IRCC theadmin is mean and knows less than nothing about ubuntu.
[19:52] <IdleOne> oops!!! wrong window :P
[19:52]  * Pici makes notes
[19:52] <Pici> :P
[19:52] <IdleOne> thank you Pici
[19:53]  * Pici scribbles doodles in notebook
[19:53] <theadmin> Eh. If that was a joke, then you could add I have a fairly strange sense of humour causing me to fail to understand most jokes.
[19:57] <AlanBell> a strange sense of humour means you fit in just fine round here, IdleOne was joking :)
[19:58] <IdleOne> I was joking
[19:59] <Fuchs> he wasn't
[19:59] <IdleOne> I wasn't
[19:59] <Fuchs> he never is, sense of humour is the first thing they strip off when becoming a member,
[19:59] <Fuchs> happened to me as well
[20:00] <theadmin> Ah, I'm fine then, they won't find it :P
[20:07] <theadmin> AlanBell: No page update yet? When's the next meeting?
[20:08] <AlanBell> last sunday of the month
[20:08] <AlanBell> probably
[20:08] <AlanBell> will update later
[20:08] <theadmin> Uh, alright, I'll hang around in the meeting channel during the last week then
[20:19] <theadmin> Well, until then, for now I shall /part. Hanging around in a channel like this and idling isn't too good
[20:19] <TheLordOfTime> ... really?
[20:19] <TheLordOfTime> i idle here all the time... :P
[20:26] <IdleOne> You're also not any good :P
[20:27] <TheLordOfTime> i take offense to your statement, that's not the Ubuntu way to say such things!
[20:27]  * TheLordOfTime goes back to stabbing php5's source code
[20:28] <IdleOne> you are correct.