[01:41] <keescook> ajmitch: yay samba!
[01:55] <ajmitch> :)
[07:25] <mikubuntu> hey guys, just downloading dapper server, no; i mean, burning it now ... it's a livecd, yes?
[07:26] <kgoetz> server? no
[07:27] <mikubuntu> kgoetz: hmmmm, so to check it out, have to install?
[07:27] <kgoetz> anyone good -=> verry good with apache2 here?
[07:27] <kgoetz> mikubuntu: afaik yes
[07:29] <mikubuntu> what's the least amount of resources it needs?  i didn't see system requirements anywhere on the download page ... wonder if i could install it on an old box?
[07:29] <kgoetz> server should be able to yes. i'd guess 128mb ram
[07:31] <mikubuntu> and then i can add whatever ecommerce/content management i need to it?  i need to start working on a project that will entail an ecommerce activity managing 5-10000 items...
[07:32] <kgoetz> well YVMV trying to run heavy web apps on SFA resources
[07:32] <mikubuntu> translation?
[07:32] <mikubuntu> yvmv? sfa?
[07:34] <kgoetz> your value may vary, not a whole lot
[07:34] <kgoetz> in that order
[07:35] <mikubuntu> hmmmm.  ok. thanks.
[07:38] <mikubuntu> kgoetz: ok, got it in the box, and the choices are install to hard disk, or install a lamp server ... i thought the lamp was part of the hard install?
[07:39] <mikubuntu> does it mean i have to do both?  first install, then lamp?  or just lamp?
[07:39] <kgoetz> mikubuntu: you can install a minimal system (first option) or a lamp server (2nd option)
[07:39] <mikubuntu> kgoet
[07:40] <mikubuntu> do you think the old box can handle lamp?  that's the setup of choice right?
[07:40] <kgoetz> whats the old boxes spec?
[07:42] <mikubuntu> hmmmmm... i know i *should* know that, but i dont.  it's an older compaq presario had about a 10gb hard drive, but i dont know about ram .... i installed puppy on it couple weeks ago for hell of it
[07:43] <kgoetz> you can start developing on it. i wont commit to any sort of prediction howwell it handles it
[07:44] <mikubuntu> guess i can't hurt anything trying to go lamp right, if it doesn't work out i can switch out
[07:44] <mikubuntu> you know anything about magento?
[07:46] <mikubuntu> there she goes, problem already .... entering lowmenory mode ... wonder if i should leave this box alone with puppy and look for something a little more robust...
[07:48] <kgoetz> no
[07:50] <kgoetz> lowmem already? you dont have 64mb of ram in it - give up now
[07:51] <kgoetz> could someone bug fixy/apache knowledgeable look at this ticket? it is by someone having teh same problems with apache i have https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libapache2-mod-auth-pam/+question/10853
[07:51] <mikubuntu> before i installed puppy i tried to get xubuntu on that box, but could not get it installed for anything, finally got puppy on it with a lot of help from their room... the problem with xubuntu seemed to be related to the low memory mode situation
[07:51] <kgoetz> your box doesnt have enough ram to be useful
[07:56] <mikubuntu> kgoetz: sorry, my chatzilla froze up... so the installer goes into low mem mode for UNDER 64 ram?  it's more of a dog than i thought, i guess ... lol
[08:01] <kgoetz> 15:21 < mikubuntu> before i installed puppy i tried to get xubuntu on that box, but could not get it installed for anything, finally got puppy on it with a lot of help from their room... the problem with xubuntu seemed to be related to the low memory mode situation
[08:01] <kgoetz> 15:21 < kgoetz> your box doesnt have enough ram to be useful
[08:05] <mikubuntu> ya, i'll have to find something else to put it on.  i thought i had installed lamp on this laptop, but after the whole process, i can't find it anywhere.  see some of the packages in synaptic, but i dont think the install went right.  or, there's always the possibility i just don't know what i'm doing.
[08:06] <kgoetz> mikubuntu: visit 'localhost' in a web browser
[08:08] <mikubuntu> just put 'localhost' into the address bar?
[08:10] <kgoetz> yes
[08:10] <mikubuntu> ok, ya, says apache server at port 80.
[08:11] <mikubuntu> has parent directory and apache2-default
[08:13] <mikubuntu> so is that 'my environment'?
[08:14] <kgoetz> means you have a web server running
[08:15] <mikubuntu> i clicked on apache2 and got a page 'it works!' ... i'm still lost, tho, how do i start building into the server?
[08:15] <mikubuntu> i think i want to try magento but i don't know how to integrate/pull it up even...
[08:17] <mikubuntu> oh, well, i'm tired and everybody seems kind of busy tonite, better call it a nite for now; thanks for your help
[08:17] <kgoetz> later mate
[08:37] <kgoetz> for some reason, apache2 doesnt have an ldap or (working) pam auth module, or a generic 'external auth' module :(
[08:55] <kraut> moin
[08:56] <kgoetz> hey
[12:00] <c1|freaky> hi all. i run a server with a few shell users. is there a way to see what a user is doing on his/her login terminal? it's a ssh login session and i want to be able to see, what that user is doing at the moment - is that possible?
[01:09] <soren> c1|freaky: w
[01:11] <c1|freaky> thanks
[01:19] <kgoetz> rhubarb, my dns is teh borked :(
[01:19] <kgoetz> talk about owning yourself :|
[01:25] <kgoetz> is fetchmailconf ncurses or X11?
[01:31] <soren> kgoetz: I think it's x11.
[01:31] <soren> kgoetz: ...it depends on python-tk
[01:32] <kgoetz> soren: ta... suppose i'll be configuring by hand
[02:22] <lafuma> hello, anyone around ?
[02:22] <kgoetz> sort of
[02:23] <lafuma> do you use ubuntu server edition ?
[02:23] <kgoetz> at work. thats irrelevent though - if you want help, say what the problem is
[02:23] <kgoetz> if someone can help they will speak up
[02:24] <lafuma> i read that it has some sort of preinstalled apache+php+mysql installation
[02:24] <lafuma> is that true ?
[02:24] <kgoetz> theres a 'lamp' install option yes
[02:25] <lafuma> okay
[02:25] <lafuma> is it safe and good to go ?
[02:25] <kgoetz> safe?
[02:26] <lafuma> which version to prefer ?
[02:26] <lafuma> 7.04 or 6.06
[02:26] <kgoetz> whats the server for?
[02:28] <lafuma> web, about 5 different domains, ftp, mailserver (about 40 accounts)
[02:29] <kgoetz> if you need the LTS (eg if it has to stay the same for another few years) go with 6.06
[02:30] <kgoetz> if you can wait a few weeks and want to upgrade in 6 months, go with 7.10 which is out mid next month.
[02:30] <kgoetz> or 7.04 so you can update to 7.10
[02:32] <lafuma> is there any place i can read about differences of 7.04 and 6.06 ?
[02:32] <kgoetz> um. maybe the release notes
[02:32] <kgoetz> not sure tbh
[02:33] <ScottK> lafuma: Unless you are building a pile of custom code on top of Ubuntu that has to have a static environment for years, go with 7.04 would be my recommendation.
[02:34] <kgoetz> night all
[02:34] <kgoetz> lafuma: good luck with it all :)
[02:34] <lafuma> thanks
[02:34] <lafuma> night
[02:36] <mikubuntu_> hello guys; i'm kind of a newb, to everything.  anyways, i downloaded magento to my ubuntu 7.04 laptop.  it downloaded to desktop, and then i did a 'extract here' on it and got an icon on the desktop... but, i'm not really sure it's installed.  when i click on it, screem launches, but i don't seem to locate any kind of dashboard for magento.
[02:36] <lafuma> i'll go with the new version then
[02:38] <soren> mikubuntu_: You need to put it somewhere your webserver knows about.
[02:40] <mikubuntu_> soren: like i said, i'm still a knucklehead with this, can you be more specific?
[02:41] <soren> mikubuntu_: Have you done any sort of programming before? (Not meant to be offensive, it just helps me give you answers)
[02:42] <lafuma> any chance i can do the installation over ssh ?
[02:42] <lafuma> ubuntu server that is
[02:42] <soren> lafuma: Umm... Install it onto what?
[02:42] <lafuma> server ?
[02:43] <lafuma> i can put the cd in it before :)
[02:43] <lafuma> but connecting it with monitor and keyboard would be pain in the ass
[02:43] <lafuma> it would be much easier to operate it over ssh
[02:45] <soren> lafuma: I don't think you can do that very easily.
[02:46] <mikubuntu_> soren: nope, completely green ... well, i did do a simple website for my car service www bestcab dot net, but nothing like what i want to do now.  i need to set up a catalog/ecommerce site with a starting inventory of about 5000 items.  what i think i understand about the process?: that i need server stuff, so i 'think' i have downloaded last week the lamp setup, and when i go to localhost...
[02:46] <mikubuntu_> ...on my browser it tells me apache2 is working.  i know i need to make some kind of database, with the items, images, and other fields relating to inventory ...
[02:47] <lafuma> damn, really ?
[02:49] <soren> lafuma: Well, yes. You could probably shove a openssh server into the installer, but you'd have to set up the network first and some sort of username/password combination.
[02:50] <soren> mikubuntu_: I see. Um... It's sort of an involved process setting all this up. Doesn't magento come with some sort of documentation?
[02:52] <mikubuntu_> soren: well, ya, i've tried to meet all their system requirements, getting the server stuff, and all, but i'm not having any luck even getting magento open to get access to it's help menus or anything
[02:53] <soren> mikubuntu_: I meant like an installation guide.
[02:53] <mikubuntu_> soren: is it possible for me to take a screenshot of the directory and put that in a pastebin?
[02:53] <soren> mikubuntu_: WEll... Yes, but it wouldn't do you much good :)
[02:53] <mikubuntu_> hmmmmm...
[02:54] <mikubuntu_> i wish i was smarter than george bush sometimes
[02:54] <soren> mikubuntu_: You need to set up a database first. Then you need to tell magento where to find that database. Then you need to move magento to somewhere apache knows about.
[02:54] <soren> mikubuntu_: You are.
[02:54] <mikubuntu_> soren: i must be; i din't vote for him
[02:55] <mikubuntu_> soren: i started playing around with the openoffice database; is that suitable?
[02:55] <soren> mikubuntu_: http://www.magentocommerce.com/boards/viewforum/9/
[02:56] <soren> mikubuntu_: That looks like a good place to get specialised magento help.
[02:56] <soren> mikubuntu_: Half an hour ago, I had never heard of it. :)
[02:56] <mikubuntu_> soren: i think i need to better understand the relationship between linux-apache-mysql-php-magento ...
[02:58] <mikubuntu_> yes, i will of course be studying there, but i was thinking to come here for some general help in understanding the bigger picture of how it all fits together
[02:58] <soren> mikubuntu_: linux == operating system, apache == http server (speaks to the webbrowser), mysql == database server (keeps your data), php interprets php scripts (apache tells it to do this and php gives the answers to apache), magento -> have no clue.
[02:59] <mikubuntu_> soren: so is mysql a database just like openoffice database?
[02:59] <soren> mikubuntu_: I don't know what an openoffice database is, actually.
[03:00] <soren> mikubuntu_: But possibly, yes.
[03:00] <mikubuntu_> soren: openoffice is the suite of business apps that come with the ubuntu desktop
[03:00] <mikubuntu_> like spreadsheet, word processor, database, etc..
[03:01] <mikubuntu_> soren: but if i am understanding you, maybe i should learn mysql way instead of openoffice?
[03:02] <soren> mikubuntu_: I know what openoffice is, but how openoffice relates to databases... No clue :)
[03:05] <mikubuntu_> openoffice database; i don't know, my brain is slow cooking
[03:05] <mikubuntu_> :)
[03:17] <m1r> hello
[03:40] <AnRkey> where is ubuntu-server +1 discussed?
[03:40] <AnRkey> here?
[03:45] <ScottK> Sure.
[03:51] <pfein> anyone have a HOWTO on building your own .deb?
[03:53] <mathiaz> pfein: https://help.ubuntu.com/6.10/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html
[03:55] <AnRkey> ScottK, is ebox gonna be ready for release
[03:55] <ScottK> No.
[03:56] <AnRkey> with a capital N :)
[03:57] <AnRkey> pfein, the motu team would be happy to help you too...
[03:57] <pfein> AnRkey: thanks, I'll try there.
[03:57] <AnRkey> you can also join their list
[03:58] <pfein> this is (hopefully) a one-off... need to version bump my load balancer.  Most of my servers are Gentoo, unfortunately.
[08:08] <xdcdx_> hello
[08:10] <xdcdx_> I'm setting up a cluster, I have several intel xeon nodes
[08:10] <xdcdx_> I configured a server node which serves the kernel and a initramfs by netboot
[08:10] <xdcdx_> the server also serves a nfs filesystem, and the client nodes mount it
[08:10] <xdcdx_>  some nodes, with a fixed hardware configuration, boot fine over the net
[08:10] <xdcdx_>  but we bought some newer nodes, and the boot-by-net and mount the remote nfs filesystem process won't work
[08:10] <xdcdx_> the new nodes have a different intel motherboard, with different ethernet integrated chipsets
[08:11] <xdcdx_> however, boot-by-net and mount the local filesystem works fine with the new nodes
[08:11] <xdcdx_> so it's not a hardware support issue; rather the new hardware messed up with our current boot-by-net and mount nfs filesystem method
[08:11] <xdcdx_> we have 6.06
[08:12] <xdcdx_> any happy ideas, or method for debugging this problem?
[08:13] <xdcdx_> we have the default initramfs, built with mkinitramfs... when the server sends the local-initramfs to the new nodes, they boot fine (given the local disc has a working filesystem)
[08:13] <xdcdx_> when the server sends the nfs-initramfs to the new nodes, they won't boot (the old nodes do boot)
[08:38] <nealmcb> xdcdx_: it may be that the folks that do ltsp (probably in #edubuntu) would have more experience with that
[08:51] <pteague> good grief... i was bashing my head all last night trying to get userdirs to work on apache.. finally gave up & rebooted & went to bed... now it works
[08:55] <mralphabet> pteague: of course
[11:52] <osmosis> anyone use xen in gutsy ?
[11:59] <mralphabet> not I, but yes, there has been lots of talk about xen


[00:03] <cjwatson> kees: http://ewx.livejournal.com/457086.html#t3016830
[00:04]  * kees hugs cjwatson
[00:05] <kees> cjwatson: what a PITA. I had everything but the null_decode bit. grr
[00:11] <cjwatson> kees: python 3 is a bit less awful here
[00:11] <cjwatson> thank goodness
[00:12] <cjwatson> $ python3 -c 'print(str(b"\xc2\xb0", "utf-8"))'
[00:12] <cjwatson> °
[00:12] <cjwatson> $ python3 -c 'print("\u00b0")'
[00:12] <cjwatson> °
[00:12] <cjwatson> (not sure whether that first is the most idiomatic way)
[00:12] <SpamapS> slangasek: god bless you for maintaining freetds. :)
[00:13] <kees> cjwatson: ah, much nicer, yes.
[00:13] <cjwatson> maybe better:
[00:13] <cjwatson> $ python3 -c 'print(b"\xc2\xb0".decode("utf-8"))' | cat
[00:13] <cjwatson> °
[00:14] <kees> yeah, I tacked on "| cat" just to be sure :)
[00:14] <cjwatson> either of those is a bytes->str conversion
[00:14] <cjwatson> yeah, I realised I'd forgotten that ...
[00:45] <jono> ScottK, around?
[04:33] <NCommander> dyfet: I've linked you to the patch multiple times already.
[06:00] <Obsidian1723> anyone here know about packaging deb files? I'm in the process of reading https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete but this is more of a question of, "is this the best way to do it?" than anything else. I want to find the best way to distribute images for wallpapers, fonts, document files, and also an install-setup.sh for setting up new installs. Basically the idea is to do a new Ubuntu install, add the PPA, update it
[06:00] <Obsidian1723> and then the file downloads and does all of the work. Is this the best way to do that? One issue that may arise is the shell script does reqire some user input to it. Forgive me. I am not a programmer, new to packaging, etc. Just want some feedback on my method really. Right now I have an alternaitve Ubuntu ISO with a kickstart file that does a wget to.dropbox.com -O- | sh and it works, but it's crude.
[07:51] <pitti> Good morning
[07:53] <diwic> Good morning pitti
[08:04] <dholbach> good morning
[08:05] <diwic> Good morning dholbach
[08:05] <dholbach> hey diwic
[08:57] <pitti> mr_pouit: do you know if/when it is planned to merge the xrandr-display-settings branch into xfce4-settings trunk?
[09:08] <soren> Does anyone happen to know why python-sphinx 1.x is in experimental (rather than unstable/testing)?
[09:09] <tumbleweed> soren: because it'll break some existing documentation
[09:10] <soren> tumbleweed: And how will that ever be addressed?
[09:12] <soren> tumbleweed: I mean, what's the motivation for people to update their docs?
[09:12] <tumbleweed> soren: I don't know all the details, but I remember on the first experimental upload, a test was done and bugs were filed (in other packages, and in sphinx)
[09:13] <soren> tumbleweed: Ok.
[09:13] <tumbleweed> I assume it's now too late to get it into squeeze (even if it is ready, no idea), so it'll stay in experimental until squeeze is out the door
[09:16] <soren> tumbleweed: Yeah. Hmm..
[09:17] <soren> tumbleweed: Well, thanks.
[09:18] <doko> soren: write a FFe for maverick?
[09:21] <mr_pouit> pitti: no date yet (I'm waiting for another dev to do the ui, and there are some bugs I have to fix, but neither the other dev nor me had the time for that since july...)
[09:21] <tumbleweed> soren: found them: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?users=python-modules-team@lists.alioth.debian.org;tag=sphinx1.0%2bdocutils0.7
[09:21] <pitti> mr_pouit: ok, thanks
[09:57] <smb> cjwatson, pitti Would it be possible to get Jaunty, Karmic and Lucid packages accepted into proposed? Also for Lucid all kernels package (and the previous upload) have gone into NEW. Maybe someone can refresh my memory why that is happening. The -24.40 version are superseded by -24.42 anyway. For hardy one of the uploads can also be removed. Maybe the other one as well. We are working on some issues there and need to re-upload anyways.
[09:58] <pitti> I'm NEWing the lucid binaries now
[10:00] <smb> pitti, Thanks. Just the newer ones. The older could go.
[10:00] <pitti> yep
[10:01] <pitti> smb: rejected the hardy uploads
[10:02] <pitti> smb: I didn't accept the jaunty one, since I have a question in bug 611471 which didn't get an answer yet
[10:02] <smb> I guess that binaries always went into NEW and I just forgot about that for some reason. Ok. Note the lbm upload will need the meta update when it finishes as we added some meta packages
[10:02] <smb> pitti, Ok, looking
[10:03] <pitti> smb: same question applies to karmic, but there the kernel fixes other things, too, so we wouldn't do an entire kernel upload for such an unimportant issue
[10:05] <smb> pitti, OK, well did that because this applied to all kernels since whatever and can cause problems when unloading the module. Its probably arguable whether its important. It was more of a finding that this part was accidentally dropped and all releases can get the same fix.
[10:07] <pitti> smb: unloading a module is a rather uncommon action, too, and I don't see why this bug is important for SRU, TBH
[10:08] <pitti> smb: for karmic it's probalby okay because it also fixes other things, but jaunty changes just that
[10:10] <smb> pitti, OK, that is arguable. I was more approaching this from a having the same code if possible point of view. But given that Jaunty is going away soon, I could live with it being rejected.
[10:11] <pitti> lucid/NEW is empty now
[10:11] <smb> I would add an answer to your question then you could reply to that and we then should fix up the nominations
[10:14] <pitti> smb: already done
[10:14] <pitti> smb: btw, this isn't fixed in maverick yet either?
[10:14] <smb> pitti, It should be by now. I guess I need to go over the status bits
[10:14] <pitti> thanks
[10:15] <smb> pitti, So just to summarize I will accept nominations for Hardy, Karmic. Reject it for Jaunty and set Maverick to released after checking
[10:16] <pitti> smb: nominations are already done; thanks for fixing the maverick state
[10:17] <smb> pitti, Doh! LP is such a useful tool for distributed working. Wasn't seeing anything you did before manually refreshing... :-P
[10:23] <pitti> smb: karmic kernels accepted; I'll watch the karmic/NEW queue this time
[10:24] <smb> pitti, Ok, thanks a lot
[10:26] <pitti> doko: thanks for the OO.o upload!
[12:16] <ogra> Keybuk, !
[12:16] <ogra> good to have you back !
[12:17] <Keybuk> ogra: shush, you'll jinx it
[12:17] <ogra> heh
[12:17] <Keybuk> the engineer has replaced just about my entire telephone line, and the equipment at both my house and the exchange
[12:18] <ogra> well, then it *has* to work now
[12:19] <Keybuk> heh
[12:19] <Keybuk> well, it has come up at 4Mb rather than 2Mb
[12:26] <Keybuk> well, it's been up for 10 minutes now
[12:26] <Keybuk> that's pretty much a new record
[12:26] <Keybuk> the novelty will wear off in a minute and I'll go back to being emacs's bitch
[12:28] <ogra> heh
[12:29] <ogra> Keybuk, if you prefer to not touch emacs yet you could take a look at bug 600359 :)
[12:29] <ogra> (there is a patch attached)
[12:29]  * ogra didnt want to upload that without a review
[12:30] <zyga> should  udisks-tcp-bridge be available in udisks package?
[12:31] <zyga> Attempting to use palimpsest on a remote host fails with a message saying that it failed to launch this command on the far side
[12:32] <zyga> please disregard my question, found bug 568926
[12:33] <Keybuk> ogra: yeah just got robbie's mail
[12:33] <Keybuk> what does the patch do?
[12:33] <ogra> prevent ureadahed from starting on systems that dont have enough ram to hold the cache
[12:34] <Keybuk> I can't see the patch
[12:34] <Keybuk> what's the problem?
[12:34] <ogra> there is a linked branch
[12:34] <Keybuk> the OOM killer should take out ureadahead right?
[12:34] <ogra> right, it does
[12:34] <ogra> and it tears down plymouth with it
[12:34] <Keybuk> right
[12:34] <Keybuk> so there's no problem
[12:34] <Keybuk> why does it take out plymouth?!
[12:34] <ogra> no idea
[12:35] <ogra> the systems that runs on have only 128-256M
[12:35] <Keybuk> so?
[12:35] <Keybuk> ureadahead operates on the page cache
[12:36] <Keybuk> it shouldn't cause any blocks to be mapped that weren't otherwise already there
[12:36] <ogra> i have also seen "no space left on device" messages from udev in that case btw, it seems to fill the ram until OOM kicks in but doesnt clear up the used "diskspace" in the tmpfs
[12:36] <Keybuk> unless it OOMs in tracing mode, in which case "ram to hold the cache" is irrelevant
[12:36] <cnd> pitti, you took a look at the utouch MIR requests and everything looked right to you, but I see that utouch-grail still is uploaded to universe: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/utouch-grail
[12:36] <Keybuk> ureadahead doesn't use any space in tmpfs
[12:36] <ogra> hmm
[12:36] <cnd> pitti, utouch-grail is now a dependency of xserver-xorg-input-evdev
[12:36] <cnd> pitti, is there something else we need to do?
[12:37] <Keybuk> I suspect you're not seeing anything different to the bug Tim recently uploaded a fix for
[12:37] <Keybuk> that ureadahead uses a stupidly large tracing buffer that's per-cpu
[12:38] <ogra> Keybuk, well, in any case it would be nice to not have OOM messages in dmesg on released images, what rsalveti added is just a way to prevent it from starting completely on low ram systems
[12:38] <ogra> and we already use tims fix
[12:38] <ogra> it helps on systems above 512M but apparently not below
[12:39] <Keybuk> ureadahead should still be started on low ram systems
[12:39] <ogra> might indeed be an arm or even specifically omap thing
[12:39] <Keybuk> it's not putting anything into ram that wasn't already there
[12:39] <ogra> why ? if it definitely hits OOM anyway
[12:40] <ogra> it adds uglyness to dmesg i wouldnt like to expose in released images
[12:40] <Keybuk> as I said, I suspect that's just due to the tracing buffer
[12:40] <Keybuk> released images are months away yet
[12:40] <ogra> heh, indeed
[12:40] <Keybuk> I have a complete ureadahead rewrite coming this week/early next
[12:40] <ogra> oh, ok
[12:40] <Keybuk> which uses a dynamic tracing buffer, so *that* particular problem goes away
[12:40] <ogra> we'll wait for that one then
[12:40] <Keybuk> and I don't see any evidence you're having anything other than the tracing buffer OOM
[12:41] <ogra> [    5.705688] Out of memory: kill process 180 (plymouthd) score 96 or a child
[12:41] <ogra> [    5.711944] Killed process 180 (plymouthd) vsz:6200kB, anon-rss:3836kB, file-rss:720kB
[12:41] <ogra> [    5.851837] init invoked oom-killer: gfp_mask=0x201da, order=0, oom_adj=0
[12:41] <ogra> (from the dmesg in the bug)
[12:41] <ogra> does that deserve a separate bug ?
[12:41] <cjwatson> perhaps we should be oom-adjusting plymouth
[12:42] <Keybuk> actually we should probably oom-adjust ureadahead in the opposite direction
[12:42] <Keybuk> in a "OMG! PLEASE KILL ME!" kind of way
[12:42] <cjwatson> yes
[12:42] <ogra> yeah
[12:43] <Keybuk> would certainly be worth trying that patch
[12:43] <Keybuk> stick "oom 14" in the ureadahead.conf
[12:43] <Keybuk> and see what gets killed that time
[12:45]  * ogra doubts the first sentence you wrote in your comment ...
[12:45] <Keybuk> why?
[12:45] <ogra> ureadahead doesnt do any good things on SD rootfs, it usually just exits directly anyway
[12:45] <Keybuk> if the OOM killer is taking out ureadahead when it's in read mode, it's still put stuff in the page cache
[12:45] <Keybuk> so it's still had *some* benefit
[12:45] <ogra> well, it *did* exit in lucid
[12:45] <Keybuk> er, it shouldn't?  what filesystem are you using?
[12:45] <ogra> ext3 on SD card
[12:46] <Keybuk> I don't know of anythiing about an SD card that would prevent ureadahead from running
[12:46] <ogra> and i think it used to exit 5 in that setup before
[12:46] <ogra> the OOM only started showing up in maverick
[12:51] <bilalakhtar> cjwatson: What happened in the discussion about better DMB meeting times?
[12:58] <ari-tczew> cjwatson: do you know about it? https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/freej/+changelog - FTBFS
[13:01] <cjwatson> ari-tczew: yes but I wasn't able to fix it
[13:01] <cjwatson> bilalakhtar: nothing yet
[13:01] <bilalakhtar> ok thanks cjwatson !
[13:02] <cjwatson> ari-tczew: if you want to figure it out, please be my guest :)
[13:03] <ari-tczew> cjwatson: my question is whether did you tried to build before sync?
[13:05] <cjwatson> can't remember
[13:08] <pitti> cnd: hm, I don't see any utouch* on http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.txt
[13:09] <pitti> cnd: are you sure it's a dependency of a main package?
[13:09] <cnd> pitti, it may not be yet
[13:09] <cnd> pitti, not until xserver-xorg-input-evdev is built with the deps
[13:10] <cnd> pitti, I just want to be sure everything looks ok right now
[13:10] <pitti> cnd: anyway, I'll promote the lot now
[13:10] <cnd> pitti, ok, mtdev, utouch-grail are the two that should be promoted right now
[13:10] <cnd> utouch-gesturetest isn't a dependency of anything in main yet
[13:11] <pitti> cnd: promoted those and -gesturetest
[13:11] <pitti> cnd: if it doesn't become one, someone will at some point demote it back to universe
[13:11] <cnd> pitti, ok, that's fine too :)
[13:11] <pitti> (it's part of archive admin cleanup)
[13:11] <cnd> pitti, thanks a bunch!
[13:14] <pitti> cnd: no problem
[13:20] <nullslash> Hello, Does anyone know how is mbr loads stage1.5 with out having  file system driver ?
[13:23] <dmb> probably magic, thats my guess
[13:26] <cjwatson> nullslash: normally, it's embedded between the MBR and the first partition, outside a filesystem
[13:26] <cjwatson> (stage1.5 is dead, use grub2 ...)
[13:27] <cjwatson> nullslash: the location is encoded as a blocklist
[13:27] <nullslash> hmm
[13:27] <nullslash> thanks cjohnston
[13:54] <jibel> pitti,  wxwidgets2.8 <IP_ADDRESS>-0ubuntu1.2 has been published to lucid-updates. but that version breaks pgadmin3, codelite and poedit with a relocation error
[13:55] <pitti> jibel: urgh - it just removes a binary from the .deb?
[13:56] <pitti> jibel: so we need no-change rebuildls for those three?
[13:56] <jibel> pitti, bug 610975, yes a no-op rebuild will do.
[13:56] <pitti> jibel: any idea how a mere rebuild of the package caused that abi change?
[13:57] <pitti> jibel: so, want me to upload no-change rebuilds for those?
[13:58] <jibel> pitti, the details are on  the debian bug 540060
[13:59] <jibel> pitti,  yes a no-change rebuild would fix it. The problem exists in maverick too.
[13:59] <pitti> ah, binutils
[14:01] <pitti> jibel: codelite and pgadmin3 have newer versions in maverick, though; they are still affected?
[14:03] <pitti> jibel: sorry, this completely slipped my attention; seems ubuntu-sru didn't get subscribed to that one, done now
[14:04] <jibel> pitti, I tried a few days ago, give me 1 mn
[14:04] <jibel> pitti, it's fixed for codelite and pgadmin. only poedit is affected.
[14:05] <pitti> jibel: ah, good; I'll upload that to maverick, too
[14:05] <pitti> jibel: would you mind closing the maverick tasks of those, if you tested them?
[14:05] <jibel> pitti, sure.
[14:11] <ttx> pitti, jibel: not sure pgadmin3 is already fixed, see bug 610975
[14:12] <jibel> ttx, I can't reproduce it anymore with an up to date maverick. Are you ?
[14:13] <ttx> jibel: hmm, I was confused between lucid/maverick I guess
[14:13] <micu> If there is a version X and I want to provide a package in my ppa that supersedes version X, but not sth. newer, I can name it Xppa1, right? But if I want to provide a newer package than a package in *another ppa* that does supersede this package but not a newer pacakge from this PPA → how would I do that?
[14:13] <ttx> jibel: still affects lucid, supposedly fixed in Maverick
[14:13] <micu>  I tried naming it ppa5micu1
[14:13] <micu> does this work?
[14:13] <pitti> micu: you can use arbitrarily long versions, so yes; depends on what the version in "another ppa" is
[14:14] <micu> pitti: ok thx. so the whole version is read from the left to the right ignoring the strings?
[14:14] <sladen> micu: what are the versions you want to supersede, and to keep?
[14:15] <pitti> micu: nothing is ignored; it's sorted asciibetically roughly, with - and ~ being special cased
[14:15] <ttx> jibel: since wxwidgets2.8 is now in lucid-updates, I guess we should push noop rebuilds in lucid-proposed now
[14:15] <pitti> ttx: already at it
[14:15] <sladen> micu: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields.html#s-f-Version
[14:15] <jibel> ttx: see discussion above with pitti.
[14:15] <ttx> pitti: ok cool, haven't done it before because I wasn't sure that wxwidgets2.8 would get accepted
[14:16] <micu> sladen: 4:4.7.0~beta2-0ubuntu3~lucid1~ppa5 is it and I want to supersede it, but not if they provide some newer versions
[14:16] <ttx> based on that "regression"
[14:16] <free> pitti: hey, I've seen you've tagged the landscape-client SRU bugs as "verification-done" and removed "verification-needed", in the future is it something we can/should do ourselves?
[14:16] <micu> sladen: thanks, I was searching for some document like this
[14:17] <micu> pitti: ok, great, thx
[14:17] <pitti> free: once you tested the .deb in proposed, please do
[14:17] <free> pitti: cool, will remember for the next round
[14:17] <pitti> free: as for "should", you aren't required/expected to, but of course it makes my life easier :)
[14:17] <free> pitti: sure, that's was one of the goals indeed :)
[14:18] <free> pitti: btw, I believe the packages are ready to be moved to -updates, is there anything else left for that?
[14:18] <pitti> free: nothign except one more day; then they have reached 7 days in proposed
[14:18] <pitti> thus I'll move them over tomorrow
[14:18] <free> pitti: awesome, tnx!
[14:19] <pitti> thanks to you, too
[14:20] <pitti> jibel: all done and accepted, thanks for pointing out
[14:22] <jibel> pitti, you're welcome
[14:46] <Adri2000> pitti: bug #569365, do you have an opinion on what Johan says?
[15:45] <superm1> pitti, cjwatson, unfortunately the hash sum mismatches are happening again, 2 days in a row now. http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/cd-build-logs/mythbuntu/maverick/daily-live-20100824.log
[16:07] <pitti> chrisccoulson, kees: so perhaps you can follow up to https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2010-August/000459.html about whether it's feasible to backport security patches for chromium?
[16:08] <pitti> Adri2000: looking
[16:09] <kees> pitti: sure; it's not feasible. easy response. :)
[16:09] <pitti> kees: .. for the records :)
[16:10] <pitti> kees: it eases the decision, it might just be that rickspencer3 et al might not like it :)
[16:10] <rickspencer3> kees, why is it not feasible?
[16:11] <kirkland> pgraner: ping
[16:12] <kirkland> pgraner: i think you were affected by https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/screen/+bug/574773 at some point ...
[16:12] <kirkland> pgraner: would you mind verifying that screen works correctly for you now on reboot, and adding a message to that bug?
[16:12] <pgraner> kirkland, will do, will take a few
[16:12] <kirkland> pgraner: ack, thanks so much
[16:15] <pitti> Adri2000: followed up
[16:15] <pitti> superm1: do we actually know whether they are due to mirror updates?
[16:15] <superm1> pitti, i'm not sure how to query that?
[16:16] <pitti> superm1: just whether someone has looked at it before and determined it to be a mirror update problem
[16:16] <superm1> i've always heard it thrown around by slangasek and cjwatson as a locking problem
[16:16] <pitti> or whether it was just a guess
[16:16] <pitti> superm1: Colin fixed a locking problem the other day
[16:16] <pitti> I think last week, for 10.04.1
[16:16] <Adri2000> pitti: thanks
[16:16] <superm1> i think one of them will have to comment if they've investigated it further
[16:17] <pitti> but that was before your latest failure
[16:17] <superm1> yeah, there was a successful build on 8-22
[16:18] <pitti> smb: karmic kernels NEWed, FYI
[16:18] <smb> ok thanks
[16:20] <kees> rickspencer3: it's not feasible to backport individual security fixes from chromium because the chromium maintainer says so. :)
[16:20] <rickspencer3> fair enough
[16:22] <chrisccoulson> yeah, it would be far too much work (and too risky) for us to consider backporting security fixes ourselves
[16:23] <chrisccoulson> and doing that for nearly 3 years of a LTS leaves us pretty much on our own if there are any issues with our packages
[16:23] <pitti> also, given how brittle chromium still is these days, we also do want bug fixes
[16:24] <pitti> it's amazing how often it "aw, snap"s :-(
[16:26] <jdstrand> pitti: yeah I know what you mean. I was developing an apparmor profile for it (now in apparmor-profiles), so I felt kind of obligated to use it for awhile. It felt like several steps backwards
[16:26] <chrisccoulson> i use several browsers all at the same time now
[16:27] <chrisccoulson> it's quite difficult splitting my browsing experience between multiple browsers ;)
[16:27] <jdstrand> yeah, it was hard enough with the two for the short while I did it
[16:28] <chrisccoulson> this ptrace restriction is a real pain for breakpad ;)
[16:29] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: I assume you talked to kees about it?
[16:29] <chrisccoulson> jdstrand, yeah. i'm doing the prctl call in the parent (which makes it work), but that is inherently racy
[16:30] <chrisccoulson> in that there is nothing to stop the debugger calling ptrace before the parent calls prctl
[16:30] <chrisccoulson> and trying to get threads running in signal handler-context of a crashed process to synchronize is a pain
[16:33] <MrQuincle> I have a kind of general question. How many of the maintainers of Ubuntu packages are actually also maintaining the Debian ones?
[16:33] <ScottK> !regression-alert wxwidgets2.8 Bug #379573
[16:33] <kees> chrisccoulson: if the ptrace fails, just wait a second and try again
[16:33] <ScottK> !regression-alert
[16:34] <ScottK> I don't think it merits a blacklist, but according to the discussion in Bug #379573, there is a regression.
[16:34] <kees> ScottK: I'm about to get on a plane, so I'll have to defer to others
[16:34]  * ScottK doesn't know more than what's in the bug.
[16:35]  * ScottK is about to have to go offline for $WORK meetings, so passes it on.
[16:35] <dmart> Keybuk: hi there, do you have a moment to chat about bootchart?
[16:39] <seb128> ScottK, there was 3 uploads from pitti earlier today to lucid-proposed for that no?
[16:39] <seb128> "
[16:39] <seb128>   * No-change upload to rebuild against current wxwidgets2.8, which
[16:39] <seb128>     involuntarily changed ABI due to a binutils change (see Debian #540060
[16:39] <seb128>     for details). (LP: #610975)"
[16:39] <mdz> ScottK, is the regression https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pgadmin3/+bug/610975 ?
[16:40] <ScottK> seb128: It's not clear to me from the bug.
[16:40] <mdz> it looks that way to me
[16:40] <ScottK> I read the last comment in the bug as "it's a regression, but we'll fix it soon so it doesn't need reporting".  That doesn't match my understanding of how it's supposed to work.
[16:44] <ttx> ScottK: IMHO it should not have reached lucid-updates based on comment 10 and 13 in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wxwidgets2.8/+bug/379573 ... but now that it has, we are closer to the fix with the noop rebuilds than by pulling the package of -updates, methinks
[16:44] <ScottK> ttx: Sounds reasonable.
[16:47] <ttx> it all boils down to comment 14 on that bug. If it regresses, it shouldn't have been tagged verification-done. At the very least we should have coordinated the noop rebuilds in -proposed and -updates
[16:49] <ScottK> ttx: It sounds to me like you're in the best position to prepare an incident report around this so we can improve in the future.
[16:50] <ScottK> pitti: I also think the rebuilds should be rescored so they get built quickly and a priority for verification.
[16:50] <ttx> ScottK: I can coordinate that with jibel, I think
[16:51] <ScottK> ttx: Great.
[17:02] <pitti> ScottK: they are all built; pgadmin3/i386 and codelite/i386 still waiting for a publisher, so it should be available in about an hour
[17:02] <ScottK> Cool.
[17:02] <pitti> I'll move them to -updates as soon as they get confirmation that they work
[17:09] <pitti> jibel/ttx: are you in a good position to give the -proposed .debs a try?
[17:09] <pitti> (you can download them from the LP build page if you need the i386 pgadmine/codelite ones; amd64 should be published for all three)
[17:09] <jibel> pitti, just finished a conf call, I'm on it.
[17:09] <ttx> pitti: not really, I'm away for the next hours
[17:10] <pitti> jibel: rock, thank you
[17:10] <jibel> ttx, I'll take care of that.
[17:10] <pitti> ttx: no worries, thanks
[17:10] <ttx> jibel: of the incident report ?
[17:12] <jibel> ttx, testing the debs.
[17:12] <ttx> jibel: ok :)
[17:13]  * ttx will be back in ~2 hours
[17:13] <jibel> ttx, nice try ;)
[17:21] <jibel> pitti, I tested poedit from -proposed and codelite and pgadmin3 downloaded from LP and they run fine.
[17:21] <jibel> pitti, is there a way to find any potentially affected packages ?
[17:39] <pitti> jibel: I think "apt-cache rdepends libwxbase2.8-0" should be an upper bound
[17:39] <pitti> jibel: thanks a lot for testing, I'll move them to -updates
[17:43] <jibel> pitti, thank you. have a nice evening.
[17:43] <savid> Hi, I'm making a python daemon that I would like to have an indicator icon for.  Ie, when the daemon is running, it should show the indicator icon.   My daemon simply uses a python loop for its main loop.  What I've seen from experimenting is that the indicator only shows when I use gtk.main(). Is there any way around this?
[17:45] <ev> savid: please ask such questions in #ubuntu-app-devel .  You need to be able to process GTK events to use an indicator, so no, you'll have to use the GTK main loop.
[17:46] <canesin> Hi all... I need some legal advices.. can someone help me ??
[17:46] <savid> ev,  ok, thanks
[17:47] <ev> sure thing
[17:48] <ev> savid: mind you, you can always separate the indicator code into a child process.
[17:52] <glickster> hey can anyone recommend a single symetrical encryption program for linux? where i can just use a password to encrypt a single file?
[17:53] <glickster> something integrated in ubuntu would be nice
[17:53] <pitti> glickster: gnupg does that in the -c mode
[17:53] <pitti> i. e. "gpg -c file"
[17:54] <glickster> oh sweet
[17:54] <glickster> pitti, what cipher does it use?
[17:54] <pitti> but the nautilus integration only works with public/private keys, not symmetric
[17:55] <pitti> glickster: docs say CAST5, but you can choose it with --cipher-algo
[17:55] <pitti> glickster: i. e. you could use --cipher-algo AES if you care
[17:56] <canesin> Hi all... I need some legal advices.. can someone help me ??
[17:56] <pitti> canesin: not quite the right place here, I'm afraid
[17:56] <glickster> i played a lawyer in a play once
[17:56] <pitti> canesin: but otherwise, please just ask a question, don't ask to ask
[17:57] <glickster> as long as she was over 18 you should be ok
[17:57] <glickster> just dont talk to the police
[17:57]  * pitti just thinks seriousness level considerably dropped in this channel
[17:58] <pitti> canesin: some people here have a rather good udnerstanding about FOSS software licensing, but for anything else this is the wrong place, I'm afraid
[18:03] <canesin> pitti: So.. I want to fork a GPLv3 .. and don't know what references to the original project I should keep
[18:03] <canesin> pitti: the project is GPL v3 and my project is GPL v3 also...
[18:04] <canesin> at the moment I have only clicked in the "fork" bottom at github
[18:04] <pitti> canesin: you mustn't remove any existing license header, copyright statement, and license files; otherwise you are free to change anything
[18:05] <pitti> well, if you entirely remove a file, removing its copyright statements as well is fine, obviously
[18:06] <canesin> rigth ... so if I edit a file, I should not change it header ?? Or I can add an "note" about it beeing modified ?
[18:08] <pitti> canesin: sure (and in fact it's even encouraged in some part of the license IIRC)
[18:08] <pitti> canesin: you just mustn't remove the existing copyright and pretend that it's all your's :)
[18:18] <cjwatson> GPLv2 required placing notices in any modified files stating that you changed the files and giving the date.  This was often ignored, so GPLv3 merely says that the "work" must carry such notices - so a changelog file is fine
[18:19] <cjwatson> GPLv3 section 5 is pretty clear really
[18:19] <cjwatson> and is mostly what conscientious people were doing anyway
[18:20] <pitti> I couldn't imagine touching any code without a VCS these days
[18:27] <canesin> okay.. so I keep everything as it is and only append/add to change log mine modifications
[18:27] <canesin> ??
[18:29] <canesin> I will use a VCS, I'm using github on it
[18:31] <pitti> canesin: yup
[18:33] <canesin> pitti: ok, so it is easy at all.. Was just scaried ..
[18:33] <canesin> pitti: the company who develops the original code is a little evil .. but they release it as GPL v3 ..  =)
[18:36] <smoser> cjwatson, are you around ?
[18:36] <dobey> eh, everyone is evil :)
[18:36] <dobey> hey pitti :)
[18:36] <cjwatson> smoser: hi
[18:37] <smoser> i'm trying to deal with some grub issues in my uec images.
[18:37] <smoser> during build, i trick update-grub into thinking that it successfully installs onto /dev/sda.
[18:37] <smoser> the instance may come up in 1 of 3 environments
[18:37] <smoser> a.) ec2, where there is no /dev/sda device
[18:38] <smoser> b.) uec where /dev/sda is there and subsequent grub-install will work fine
[18:38] <smoser> c.) uec where /dev/sda is not there, but /dev/vda is
[18:38] <cjwatson> update-grub doesn't install to anything.  I suspect you mean grub-install
[18:38] <smoser> ok, yeah.
[18:39] <dobey> hrmm, if i change the names of some binary packages (in a PPA), and replace/conflict the old names, will apt know to pull the new names to update? i'm a little confused on how that works exactly.
[18:39] <smoser> one way or another, right now, if I have 'update-grub' set to run on kernel install, it will fail on ec2.
[18:42] <cjwatson> smoser: because it fails to probe /?
[18:43] <smoser> /usr/sbin/grub-probe: error: cannot find a GRUB drive for /dev/sda1.  Check your device.map.
[18:43] <smoser> is what i get right now
[18:43] <smoser> just running it.
[18:43] <cjwatson> is that /?
[18:43] <smoser> yes
[18:43] <cjwatson> so why would it think that / is /dev/sda1?
[18:44] <smoser> because it is.
[18:44] <smoser> ah.
[18:44] <smoser> i confused you
[18:44] <smoser> there is no /dev/sda
[18:44] <smoser> there is a /dev/sda1
[18:44] <cjwatson> blink
[18:44] <smoser> (ie, in /dev/ or /proc/partitions )
[18:44] <cjwatson> this is going to be hard to debug over IRC, the channel is too narrow for the amount of information that needs to be conveyed or something
[18:45] <cjwatson> a good clear bug report would be better :)
[18:46] <smoser> cjwatson, ok. i'll get one put together.
[18:46] <smoser> i fear it will be long winded-ish, though.
[18:46] <cjwatson> that's ok
[18:49] <azeem> i/W 26
[19:19] <kirkland> ev: ping
[19:22] <bilalakhtar> Can someone get https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gpsdrive/2.10~pre4-6.dfsg-5ubuntu1/+build/1899805 rebuilt?
[19:25] <Laney> have you confirmed it builds?
[19:29]  * Laney mashes the button anyway
[19:41] <ari-tczew> Laney: does it require a new revision like -ubuntu2?
[19:41] <Laney> not for a give back
[19:41] <Laney> that means there was never a binary for this (arch, version)
[20:01] <hallyn> pitti: cjwatson: hey guys, i'm having a problem with multipath booting, and you are the last two to touch the changelog, so I'm hoping you have an idea for the right place to solve it :)
[20:01] <jaminc> anyone here notice that the server and desktop installs generate different group IDs for the same groups and a conflicting user ID?
[20:01] <hallyn> basically, if the kernel gets a 'root=UUID=xyz' boot option, the initramfs init tries to mount /dev/disk/by-uuid/xyz
[20:02] <hallyn> if that happens early enough, then /dev/disk/by-uuid/xyz points to /dev/sda.  Late enough, and it points to /dev/mapper/abc.  But in between, it still points to /dev/sda1, but /dev/sda1 has been taken by multipath - the links have just not yet been updated - so the rootfs mount attempt fails
[20:02] <pitti> hallyn: I have no clue about multipath, but I reasonably know the "normal" boot
[20:03] <hallyn> my naive thought would be that i need to synchronize between hotplug/udev and the mount_root attempt at init.  But I don't know what would be a clean way
[20:03] <kiko> pgraner, do you know the status of the 2.6.35 kernel coming in from TI?
[20:06] <pgraner> kiko, haven't heard anything davidm should know
[20:34] <ttx> pitti, jibel, ScottK: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IncidentReports/2010-08-24-wxwidgets2.8-SRU-breaks-other-packages -- feel free to fix/complete/suggest other recommendations
[21:47] <smoser> cjwatson, i opened bug 623609
[22:15] <cnd> seb128, thanks for uploading utouch-geis
[22:15] <cnd> do you have a minute for a quick question about it?
[22:15] <seb128> cnd, np
[22:15] <seb128> sure
[22:16] <cnd> seb128, so I added a runtime package depends for libutouch-geis1 on libutouch-grail1 (>= 1.0.10) in because geis of the api/abi change
[22:16] <cnd> is there a different method you would use?
[22:16] <seb128> well if the api changes the libutouch-grail1 shlibs or .symbols should reflect that
[22:16] <cnd> ahhh, ok
[22:16] <seb128> I would update the libutouch-grail1 .shlibs or .symbols
[22:16] <seb128> so the libutouch-geis1 would get the right version
[22:16] <cnd> yeah, at first your comment didn't make sense to me
[22:16] <cnd> but it just clicked
[22:17] <cnd> our .symbols file for grail should be correct, so my addition was likely superfluous
[22:17] <seb128> right
[22:17] <cnd> and I'm not sure how that automatic debian packaging patch snuck in there
[22:17] <seb128> the point of having those .symbols is not to have to deal with those depends manually
[22:17] <cnd> I'll make sure to fix both issues for the next upload
[22:18] <seb128> ${shlibs:Depends} will build the depends list based on the symbol you use
[22:18] <cnd> yeah
[22:18] <seb128> it will check what other lib and version provides thoe
[22:18] <seb128> those
[22:18] <seb128> cnd, thanks
[22:18] <cnd> I get all the parts, I just don't remember all of them all the time yet
[22:18] <cnd> :)
[22:18] <seb128> ;-)
[22:19] <seb128> cnd, sorry if the comments were a bit short
[22:19] <seb128> cnd, the other issues is that this autogenerated debian patch is diff done inline
[22:19] <cnd> seb128, no, I think they were good, I just didn't put two and two together
[22:19] <seb128> so either you didn't have a clean source or you just want that renamed to be a proper patch
[22:19] <cnd> yeah
[22:19] <cnd> likely it's not a clean source
[22:20] <cnd> have you noticed that bzr clean-tree doesn't get rid of .o files on maverick?
[22:20] <cnd> fun times...
[22:20] <seb128> where would be the fun to use an unstable version if there was no bug ;-)
[22:21] <cnd> yeah...


[00:10] <mhb> manchicken: how about making adept updater look like this:
[00:10] <mhb> manchicken: http://mhb.ath.cx/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/updater-suggested.png
[00:11] <mhb> manchicken: I must admit, I like simple dialogs for simple tasks
[01:49] <ryanakca> hmm... any reason packagekit hasn't already been packaged?
[01:53] <Jucato> whoa? Kivio stencils for sale? O.o
[01:54] <seele> yeah
[01:54] <seele> you can also request stencils to be made for a price
[01:54] <seele> if only kivio was good enough to be worth that..
[01:55] <Jucato> :)
[01:55]  * Jucato is still looking for a UI-wireframing app :)
[01:55] <seele> if you find an OSS one, let me know
[01:55] <seele> ive been looking for years
[01:55] <seele> afaik dia is better than kivio, but still no match for visio
[01:55] <Jucato> uh oh... :)
[01:56] <seele> and since it is a major part of my job function, i cant waste time with a sub-par application
[01:56] <Jucato> if you haven't found one for years... I doubt I can find one in a few hours :D
[01:56] <seele> frustration is not a consultant's friend
[01:56] <seele> yeah
[01:57] <Jucato> :)
[01:58] <nixternal> I haven't used Visio since like 1998....I heard it is gotten really good over the past few releases...maybe I will have to check it out
[01:59] <Jucato> nixternal!!!!
[01:59] <seele> nixternal: try to get an older version that doesnt have the ribbon
[01:59] <seele> i still haven't figured it out
[02:00] <nixternal> you can disable the ribbon and go back to classic view...I watched someone in class do it last week
[02:00] <seele> ooh
[02:00]  * seele does that right now
[02:00] <nixternal> installing Visio Pro 2007 now
[02:00] <Jucato> is there a demo version of Visio? :D
[02:00] <nixternal> I am sure there is
[02:00] <seele> a demo version of a microsoft product?
[02:01] <nixternal> heh, they actually have those now
[02:01] <Jucato> hehe my diagramming wants are really simple... UML, Flowchart, generic diagrams, and possibly UI wireframing... Umbrello takes care of the first 2...
[02:01] <nixternal> UML == Umbrello
[02:02] <nixternal> I use Kivio for flowcharting
[02:02] <nixternal> if I flowchart
[02:02] <nixternal> UI wireframing I never did much of...I would alway draw it out in the UI dev software
[02:02] <Jucato> :P
[02:02] <nixternal> maybe next time I will read your entire sentence before commenting :p
[02:03]  * Jucato wants to specialize in UI (a bit of usability, but more on programming and desing)
[02:03] <Jucato> er.. design
[02:03] <Jucato> kivio's UML stencils are a bit... :)
[02:04] <nixternal> I took 2 UI design courses, just finished up the 2nd one a couple of months ago
[02:04] <Jucato> kool!
[02:04] <nixternal> heh, the UI I used to program was nasty stuff
[02:04] <nixternal> HMI Panels for Allen Bradley
[02:04] <nixternal> it wasn't until we switched from the HMI panels to PCs where I got to do nice 3d panels
[02:04] <Jucato> they actually have UI courses? sweet! :)
[02:05] <nixternal> I know our universities here do, at least the ones I know
[02:05] <nixternal> I just started taking CS courses...got my Bachelors at University of Maryland (GO TERPS!) in Business
[02:07] <crimsun> only a few miles from here!
[02:07] <Jucato> I bet that if there were ever any UI design-related courses/classes here, it would either be Java or Visual Foo
[02:07] <nixternal> College Park baby!
[02:07] <crimsun> my gf lives in CP
[02:08] <nixternal> The only place I really frequented up there was Congressional Golf Course in Bethesda
[02:08] <nixternal> and Chevy Chase, only because I almost bought a house there when I worked for Fannie Mae
[02:08] <nixternal> holy smokes, I just downloaded 9mb in 2 seconds
[02:14] <Jucato> seele: wow! there is a free trial of visio! lol! :D
[02:14] <Jucato> of course I have to sign-in/up :P
[02:15] <nixternal> haha
[02:15] <Jucato> luckily I have a hotmail account...
[02:16] <nixternal> interesting...my Visio 2007 Pro doesn't have the ribbon
[02:26] <jjesse> hello nixternal and Jucato
[02:26] <Jucato> jjesse!!!
[02:26] <Jucato> back from UDS?
[02:26] <jjesse> yeah got back friday night late
[02:26] <jjesse> like 11:45 or so
[02:26] <Riddell> jjesse: sorry I didn't say goodbye
[02:27] <Riddell> thanks for coming
[02:27] <jjesse> Riddell: no problem, i had a great time ,looking forward to the next one :)
[02:28] <jjesse> Riddell: you guys in plymouth already?
[02:28] <Riddell> yes, arrived this evening
[02:28] <Riddell> we played the Canonical IRC Bingo game
[02:28] <jjesse> which is?
[02:29] <Riddell> a game of bingo with canonical names and you have to match 5 in a row of irc names
[02:29] <jjesse> sounds like fun
[02:31] <nixternal> howdy jjesse
[02:31] <jjesse> howdy nixternal
[02:32] <Riddell> hi hdevalence
[02:32] <hdevalence> hey guys, I want to experiment with kde/qt, but i think my moc is broken
[02:32] <hdevalence> hey
[02:33] <Riddell> hdevalence: are you using qmake?
[02:34] <hdevalence> Riddell: either qmake or when I follow the instructions on the kde techbase tutorials or when i try to build someone else's program from source with ./configure and then make..
[02:34] <hdevalence> none work
[02:34] <hdevalence> and I have the -dev packages installed
[02:36] <Riddell> hdevalence: qt 3 or qt4?
[02:36] <hdevalence> Riddell: Both.
[02:37] <hdevalence> Riddell: Could that be what's causing the problem?
[02:37] <nixternal> seele: what template do you use for wireframing?
[02:37] <Riddell> hdevalence: it could be calling the moc from the wrong qt indeed
[02:40] <hdevalence> Riddel: Adept says I have libqt4-dev but I don't see a libqt3-dev
[02:40] <crimsun> missing -mt
[02:41] <crimsun> (libqt3-mt-dev)
[02:41] <hdevalence> oh yes I do have that
[02:42] <hdevalence> I also have qt4-dev-tools and qt3-dev-tools
[02:43] <hdevalence> I have all of the kde4 packages except kde4addons and kde4addons-data
[02:43] <crimsun> be aware that if you use ./configure, you need to set the appropriate prefix
[02:43] <crimsun> Qt prefix, that is.
[02:44] <crimsun> I'm surmising you need /usr/share/qt4
[02:44] <hdevalence> crimsun: How do I do that?
[02:45] <crimsun> --with-qt-dir=/usr/share/qt4
[02:48] <hdevalence> I hear that 8.04 will not include kde 4. Is this true?
[02:48] <jjesse> kde4 will not be a part of the long term support release
[02:49] <jjesse> there will be some ISO cretaed that will include KDE4 but not as a part of 8.04
[02:50] <dasKreech> hi crimsun
[02:50] <crimsun> (hi)
[02:51] <jjesse> hdevalence: did that answer your question?
[02:51] <hdevalence> jjesse: so basically I can get an iso that uses kde3.5.etc OR an iso that uses kde4?
[02:52] <jjesse> hdevalence: the long term supported version of 8.04 will include kde 3
[02:52] <dasKreech> Jucato or Jucato_: Why UI?
[02:52] <Jucato> dasKreech: why why UI?
[02:52] <jjesse> so if you want long term suport  you need to use 8.04
[02:52] <nixternal> hdevalence: you will be able to get a KDE 4 Live CD that is 7.10
[02:52] <Jucato_> dasKreech: why why UI?
[02:53] <dasKreech> heh
[02:53] <dasKreech> I started looking at game design cause it's one of the few places taht still seriously review UI design
[02:54] <dasKreech> btw I think I like the OpenSuse cd more than the Debian KDE4 cd though the Debian is less annoying
[02:55] <Jucato> dasKreech: I'm referring mostly to desktop GUI
[02:55] <dasKreech> I know
[02:56] <dasKreech> but there are generally so many assumptions there it's really annoying
[02:56] <Jucato> Fitt's law giving you fits? :)
[02:57] <dasKreech> heehee
[03:09] <dasKreech> Hihi ^ ^
[03:09] <dasKreech> Anyone played the new pingus?
[03:10] <dasKreech> crimsun: Would I be right in saying that pulseaudio would be a backend to phonon?
[03:11]  * Jucato is confuzzled about what he read about pulseaudio...
[03:11] <dasKreech> Yeah me too
[03:12] <dasKreech>  sounds like a copy of Phonon without the multiple backends
[03:12] <Jucato> if I read it correctly (from liquidat) it sits between ALSA and GStreamer/Xine...
[03:12] <Jucato> while Phonon sits between the app and the backend... so it's not really like Phonon...
[03:12] <dasKreech> feature set sounds like it
[03:12] <Jucato> which is why I'm confuzzled :)
[03:13] <dasKreech> But yeah it sounds like a backend to phonon
[03:13] <Jucato> or a backend to Xine/Gstreamer... O.o
[03:13] <Riddell> pulseaudio is a sound server, a replacement for esd or the mixer part of arts
[03:13] <dasKreech> Oh
[03:13] <dasKreech> now I am confused
[03:13] <Jucato> :D
[03:13] <Tm_T> Riddell: sounds evil =)
[03:13] <Jucato> I try not to dive into hardware and sound... :)
[03:13] <Riddell> xine is mostly just a decoder, while gstreamer is a framework to do decoding or encoding
[03:32]  * dasKreech laughs
[03:32] <dasKreech> I told a friend that feisty was really solid but lacked a lot of nice features whereas gutsy has lots of features but bugs sprinkled around the place
[03:32] <dasKreech>  he responded: So it became Windows?
[03:49] <dasKreech> nixternal: ping
[04:06] <nixternal> dasKreech: pong
[04:06] <dasKreech> tried gos?
[04:08] <nixternal> ya
[04:09] <dasKreech> thoughts?
[04:09] <nixternal> not for me honestly, didn't boot on the intel core 2
[04:10] <nixternal> it felt like all flash and no go
[04:10] <dasKreech> So you gnash-ed your teeth?
[04:10] <nixternal> heh
[04:31] <nixternal> jjesse: are you writing that article for Linux+ or should I do it? I told the lady I would get back with her a week ago and I haven't yet
[04:40] <Jucato> gOS...
[05:08] <dasKreech> nixternal: http://themasterchief.stumbleupon.com/review/13841275/
[05:27] <nixternal> heh, nice
[05:57] <dasKreech> FOG is Open Sorce
[07:33] <Jucato> Hobbsee hobbs hob :)
[07:37] <Hobbsee> hiya Jucato!
[07:37] <Jucato> how's life so far? :D
[07:37] <Hobbsee> too much crap to do :(
[07:38] <Hobbsee> apart from that, good :)
[07:38] <Jucato> heheh
[07:38]  * Jucato has a lot of stuff to do... but can't figure out how/when/where to start :/
[07:40] <Hobbsee> same here, pretty much
[07:40] <Hobbsee> start with the stuff that needs doing first
[07:42]  * Jucato thinks hard...
[07:42] <Jucato> I should probably do... hm.. chocolate!
[07:47] <Hobbsee> mmm...chocolate...
[10:11] <Tonio_> hi everyone
[10:11] <Tonio_> Riddell: ping ?
[10:11] <Hobbsee> he'll be asleep
[10:12] <Tonio_> ah ok
[10:12] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: did you notice the hudge criticisms dolphin by default receives ?
[10:13] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: we should have removed the default mimetype association as we suggested :(
[10:13] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: and I hope that'll be done for hardy
[10:13] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: i havent, no
[10:13] <Tonio_> it's too buggy and misses too many features to be used by default, ihmo
[10:14] <Tonio_> or in any case we should provide a way so that people can switch back to konqueror graphically
[10:15] <Lure> Tonio_: there is a way: remove dolphin package
[10:15] <Tonio_> Lure: which is not nice imho
[10:16] <Lure> Tonio_: why not - if they do not like it, they can remove it
[10:16] <Tonio_> Lure: coding a little component chooser kcm as there is for the web browser for example, that would be nice
[10:16] <Tonio_> Lure: hum, sure they can remove it
[10:17] <Tonio_> Lure: btw, I think that the default file manager has to be as stable as possible
[10:17] <Tonio_> Lure: and honnestly dolphin lacks too many features (ark integration) and is too buggy to be used by default
[10:17] <Tonio_> Lure: don't you think ?
[10:18] <Tonio_> Lure: there are a lot of criticisms over the web concerning that choice
[10:20] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: tbh, i havent been regularly using kubuntu since the release
[10:20] <Lure> Tonio_: I do my file mgmt in command line, so I do not cosider myself to be appropriate to make a decision on this ;-)
[10:21] <Tonio_> Lure: hehe ;)
[10:21]  * Lure is wondering if somebody can kick Hobbsee out of this channel ;-)
[10:21] <Jucato> !d3lphin
[10:21] <ubotu> Dolphin, or more properly D3lphin, is the new default file manager for Kubuntu 7.10 Gutsy Gibbon. If you would like to make Konqueror your default file manager again, go to Konqueror - Settings menu - Configure Konqueror - File Associations and change the association for inode/directory and inode/system_directory to Konqueror at the top rather than Dolphin.
[10:21] <Tonio_> Lure: I tried to use dolphin all day long, it quickly becomes pretty hard....
[10:21] <Lure> Tonio_: ^^^ that is not that bad
[10:22] <Tonio_> Lure: my mother would never come to this :)
[10:22] <Lure> thanks Hobbsee - i was expecting it ;-)
[10:22] <Tonio_> Lure: a way to graphically choose the default would be nice
[10:22] <Lure> Jucato: can we add something like this also to release notes and kubuntu.org?
[10:22] <Jucato> Tonio_, Lure: considering that the lead d3lphin developer seems to have stopped working on d3lphin, and since Hardy will be LTS, it might not be a good idea to leave it as default... unless we're willing to maintain d3lphin....
[10:22] <Hobbsee> Lure: :)
[10:23] <Jucato> s/lead/lone/
[10:23] <Tonio_> Lure: the reason I suggested to remove this as default was the lacking of this
[10:23] <Tonio_> Jucato: exactly
[10:23] <Tonio_> Jucato: if we can fix the bugs on it, then keep it
[10:24] <Tonio_> Jucato: but it's unlikely to be done I suspect....
[10:24] <Jucato> Tonio_: too many bugs, too many features lacking...
[10:24] <Tonio_> Jucato: features lacking -> appart from ark integration I don't agree
[10:25] <Tonio_> Jucato: bugs -> I definatelly agree
[10:25]  * Jucato considers lacking features as bugs too :P
[10:25]  * Hobbsee considers Jucato a bug :P
[10:25] <Jucato> imho, it's not really worth it, and indirectly biases users against dolphin in kde4...
[10:25] <Jucato> Hobbsee: please don't eat me :)
[10:25] <Hobbsee> mmm....tasty
[10:25] <Jucato> noooo!!!
[10:26]  * Hobbsee nibbles on Jucatofingers
[10:26] <Jucato> ey leave some for me!!! I'm starving!!
[12:27] <Serega> I have a suspiction my kubuntu-devel maillist subscription doesn't work :(
[12:29] <Serega> I have post two messages, but haven't recevied even my own letters
[12:30] <Serega> could anybody say me: how many letters was in kubuntu-devel during last 3-4 days?
[12:30] <Jucato> you don't receive your own messages afaik
[12:33] <Hobbsee> Serega: 2 from you
[12:38] <Serega> Jucato: I've set the preference to receive own
[12:38] <Serega> Hobbsee: and was there any mails from others?
[12:38] <Hobbsee> Serega: no
[12:39] <Jucato> Serega: well so far I've received both your e-mails
[12:39] <Serega> nice, maybe I only can't receive own
[12:39]  * Jucato has never been able to receive his own
[12:41] <Jucato> Topic: kubuntu dev needed http://kubuntuforums.net/forums/index.php?topic=3088379
[12:41] <Jucato> heheh :)
[12:43] <Serega> Jucato: cool!
[12:43] <Jucato> haha that's not from me. can't vouch for it either
[12:44] <Jucato> just came across it :)
[12:46] <Serega> Jucato: sounds like sponsoring kubuntu :)
[12:46] <Jucato> or just one developer to work for a private company :)
[12:47] <Hobbsee> i'd say the latter
[12:47] <Hobbsee> looks interesting, though
[12:47] <Serega> Jucato: but as I understand they should share their changes with community
[12:48] <Jucato> they should :)
[12:49] <Hobbsee> well, the post-config app easily could be
[12:49] <Hobbsee> id' imagine it to be something like kpersonalizer
[12:50] <Hobbsee> metapackage stuff is unsharable, anyway
[12:51] <Jucato> it is? aw...
[12:52] <Hobbsee> well, we wouldnt be replacing k-d with it :)
[12:52] <Jucato> definitely :)
[12:52] <dasKreech> hi all!
[12:52]  * Jucato hides in a korner
[12:53] <Serega> dasKreech: Hi!
[12:53]  * Jucato konceals in a korner, konsuming a kookie
[12:53]  * Serega laughs
[12:56] <dasKreech> hi Serega!!
[12:56]  * dasKreech hugs Jucato and Hobbsee
[12:57] <Jucato> *gasp* I was koncealed!!
[12:57]  * dasKreech konfound your koncealment!
[12:57] <dasKreech> Umm
[12:57]  * Hobbsee hugs dasKreech
[12:57] <dasKreech> no /me :)
[12:59]  * Hobbsee browses the forums
[12:59] <Hobbsee> "oh look, i removed what i didnt know about, and it killed my system"
[12:59] <Jucato> Hobbsee: yes. adept strikes again
[12:59] <Jucato> I don't blame them though
[13:00] <Jucato> that has been one of the most reported bug/complaint since I used Kubuntu...
[13:00] <Hobbsee> adept doesnt *do* autoremove, does it?
[13:01] <Jucato> no afaik.. but it doesn't warn you if something will remove everything as well :)
[13:02] <Jucato> if something, somehow, triggers a removal of a lot of packages, the only way you're going to get a clue that it's going to remove a lot of packages, is through the status bar...
[13:02] <Hobbsee> oh, true
[13:02] <dasKreech> oh hmm
[13:02] <dasKreech> never thought of that
[13:02] <Hobbsee> yes, i've long wished adept would actually show me the damned console, for big things.
[13:02] <dasKreech> I always check myself
[13:03] <dasKreech> Just part of hitting appy changes
[13:03] <Jucato> not many people actually expect that they would have to click on Review changes on their own
[13:03] <dasKreech> Thats's a good point
[13:04] <Jucato> oh shift! I've been DW'ed!
[13:04] <Hobbsee> DW'ed?
[13:04] <Serega> mmm... disc space delta can be seen in Adept's statusbar
[13:04] <Jucato> DistroWatched
[13:05] <Hobbsee> ahh
[13:05] <Jucato> at least it hasn't been dugg.... or worse, /.'ed !
[13:05] <Hobbsee> Serega: it's not absolutely clear, yes
[13:05] <dasKreech>  /me obligingly shifts
[13:05] <Serega> Hobbsee: size often is far from package count ;]
[13:06] <Hobbsee> oh, indeed
[13:06] <dasKreech> Serega: No if something may be more drastic than a user inteded it shuld be instantly obvious
[13:06] <dasKreech>  good UI
[13:06] <Jucato> unfortunately, mornfall has objected to any form of confirmation dialogs...
[13:06] <dasKreech> Now Jucato  did you want a bit shift a paradigm shift or a quantum shift?
[13:07] <Jucato> organic shift
[13:07] <Jucato> morning jjesse!
[13:07] <dasKreech> Jucato: Good thing we can patch his app eh?
[13:07] <jjesse> evening Jucato
[13:07] <dasKreech> Well I wonder if we can have a first run tutorial for adept
[13:08] <Jucato> er... no...
[13:08] <Jucato> remember, "we hate first-run-everything!"
[13:08] <Hobbsee> dasKreech: first run things are evil.
[13:08] <Hobbsee> although i note synaptic has one
[13:08] <dasKreech> Yes it does
[13:08] <Serega> :)
[13:08] <dasKreech> and ours would be prettier
[13:08]  * Hobbsee tries removing ubuntu-desktop, and seeing what happens
[13:09] <dasKreech> in case mornfall had great objections to our letting people know that Adept is actually doingit's job
[13:09] <dasKreech> :-P
[13:09]  * Serega worders Hobbsee uses ubuntu-desktop
[13:09] <dasKreech> Serega: Shhhhhhhhh she'll poke you
[13:09] <dasKreech> !hobbsee
[13:09] <ubotu> I phear the stick so shhhhh
[13:11] <Hobbsee> hum.
[13:11] <Hobbsee> apparently it says there are none to autoremove too
[13:11]  * Serega doesn't understand :(
[13:11] <Hobbsee> Serega: yes, i'm running ubuntu atm.
[13:12] <dasKreech> Hobbsee: try removing libgtk
[13:12] <Hobbsee> i'm not stupid.  i fixed X yesterday
[13:12]  * Hobbsee purges tracker again
[13:12] <dasKreech> well libkde4a2c then
[13:12] <Hobbsee> i'd prefer to keep amarok :)
[13:12] <dasKreech> That should strip out all KDE packages
[13:12] <Hobbsee> but yes, it does warn things if you remove dependancies
[13:13] <Hobbsee> er, it does warn about what it will remove
[13:13] <dasKreech> Not like you are hitting apply just want to see if it would remove stuff right?
[13:13] <Hobbsee> allthough, i suspect the guy is a feisty user
[13:13] <Hobbsee> i wanted to test autoremove :)
[13:15]  * dasKreech hands everyone pitchforks to chase Jucato
[13:16] <Serega> what's wrong with Jucato?
[13:17] <dasKreech> oh he's expecting to be chased for his Blog entry :)
[13:17] <Serega> dasKreech: blog entry?
[13:17] <dasKreech> Can't dissapoint now can we :)
[13:17] <dasKreech> http://jucato.org/blog/quo-vadis-kubuntu/
[13:23]  * Jucato is soooo dead...
[13:24]  * dasKreech pokes him with a pitchforK
[13:24]  * Jucato kries...
[13:24] <dasKreech> Seems alive
[13:26] <dasKreech> Right
[13:26] <dasKreech> breakfast
[13:31] <Serega> Jucato: "Why have we started to define ourselves, define our features, define our roadmap, based on what Ubuntu has?" Perfect!
[13:32] <nixternal> Riddell: In regards the covermount, would it be possible we download Kubuntu 7.10 via
[13:32] <nixternal> FTP? L+DVD features 2 4GB DVDs. Could you provide us with additional (any
[13:32] <nixternal> most popular) packages we could fill our 4GB DVD and devote it only to your
[13:32] <nixternal> distribution? Could you help me in this matter?
[13:32] <nixternal> any ideas? this is for the Linux+ article
[13:32] <Jucato> (oh nixternal's awayke.. time to hide)
[13:32] <Jucato> er... awake*
[13:32] <nixternal> muhehehe
[13:32] <Hobbsee> !visternal
[13:32] <ubotu> Oh no!  The pointy-clicky Vista lover has arrived!  He's rumoured to be giving out free money, too!
[13:33] <nixternal> oh lord, just when you thought it was safe to go back in, Hobbsee shows up :p
[13:33] <Hobbsee> haha
[13:33] <Serega> Hobbsee: is there short funny message for all members?)
[13:33] <nixternal> !hobbsee
[13:33] <ubotu> I phear the stick so shhhhh
[13:33] <dasKreech> Only the cool ones :)
[13:33] <nixternal> pretty much just us two I think
[13:34] <Serega> !dasKreech
[13:34] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about daskreech - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[13:34] <nixternal> hahah, only the superkool ones, remember that
[13:34] <Serega> heh
[13:34] <dasKreech> Right right
[13:34] <Serega> :)
[13:34] <dasKreech> the KrazyKool
[13:34] <Hobbsee> Serega: nope :)
[13:34] <Hobbsee> Serega: only some of the really strange ones, like nixternal :P
[13:34] <nixternal> and you too!
[13:34] <Serega> :-D
[13:34] <Jucato> she did say "some of the really strange ones" :D
[13:34] <Jucato> and since she has one...
[13:35] <nixternal> she is lord of the strange ones
[13:35]  * Jucato whistles innocently
[13:35] <Jucato> er lady...
[13:35] <nixternal> hehe
[13:35] <Jucato> or lord.. whichever she prefers
[13:35]  * Hobbsee is a green alien.
[13:35] <Hobbsee> lady.
[13:35] <nixternal> hahaha
[13:36] <nixternal> you want to talk about confusing...Dolphin shows <b>IP ADDRESS</b> in the status bar when connecting to SFTP, yet Konqueror shows the IP bolded and not the raw tags
[13:37] <nixternal> I have gone through konqi's code, dolphin's code, and kstatusbar.h, as well as the io slave code for sftp, and it is one big circle
[13:37] <nixternal> I need to look at dolphin and konqi and see how they are handling the kstatusbar
[13:38] <Jucato> d3lphin has always been funKy
[13:38] <dasKreech> ehy dolphin's aren't the smartest creatures on earth
[13:38] <dasKreech>  mice are
[13:39] <Jucato> and yet only roaches will survive!
[13:40] <Serega> :)
[13:48] <dasKreech> All from Chicago
[13:49] <dasKreech> Jucato: ping
[13:49] <Jucato> pong
[13:49] <dasKreech> reading the comments on DW ?
[13:50] <Jucato> about 15 minutes ago
[13:52] <Serega> DW published a link to the blog?
[13:52] <dasKreech> KDE is not modular?
[13:52] <Jucato> (un)fortunately, DW did...
[13:52] <dasKreech> Hey it's not digg
[13:53] <Jucato> dasKreech: I intend to blog about that misconception soon. but I need to get more technical confirmation :)
[13:53]  * dasKreech points handily at webkit/KHTML
[13:53]  * Jucato won't even start about that
[13:56] <dasKreech> good proof though
[13:59] <Riddell> Tonio_: pong
[14:00] <Tonio_> Riddell: hey ;)
[14:00] <Tonio_> Riddell: how was the UDS ?
[14:00] <Serega> Riddell: hi
[14:00] <Riddell> nixternal: pardon?
[14:00] <Tonio_> Riddell: wanted to get your opinion on dolphin.... I got a lot of very negative comments about its integration by default....
[14:00] <Riddell> I think I'll have to close my laptop in a moment
[14:00] <Tonio_> Riddell: I was just thinking about the next LTS release, if you think about keep this or switch back to konqueror
[14:01] <Riddell> Tonio_: I can't see much point in removing it, they'll have to get used to it soon
[14:01] <Tonio_> Riddell: better fix bugs in it then ?
[14:01] <dasKreech> Gnome couldn't possibly have that discussion
[14:01] <_buz> Tonio_: here's one more, i absolutely hate the thing
[14:02] <dasKreech> Jucato_: Who's this now?
[14:02]  * dasKreech passes out torches
[14:02] <Tonio_> Riddell: well I have to go in a meeting at work, better discuss this when I'm on my contrib day :)
[14:05] <nixternal> Riddell: that is for the Linux+ article on Kubuntu I guess I am doing...she wants to know what else besides the Kubuntu DVD we can give her I guess
[14:06] <jjesse> nixternal: which article are you writing?  i was/am supposed to do one as well
[14:06] <Jucato> yay for more articles! :D
[14:06] <nixternal> jjesse: I thought so, but you never responded....it needs to be done quickly
[14:06] <nixternal> I have been chatting with Linux+ for the past week or so via email
[14:06] <jjesse> nixternal: ah ok, i sent him an email that i was swamped at UDS boston and could get to it next week
[14:06] <dasKreech> The certs guys>
[14:07] <jjesse> nixternal: but if yo ugot it done
[14:07] <dasKreech> ?
[14:07] <jjesse> thats cool
[14:07] <nixternal> jjesse: I don't have it done, because I didn't want to step on toes if you were already doing it
[14:07] <jjesse> nixternal: ah i havne't started it
[14:08] <nixternal> possible for you to have it done in the next couple of days?
[14:08] <jjesse> umm probablly not, looking at schedule
[14:08] <jjesse> flying to australia on wendesay and pretty swamped :(
[14:08] <nixternal> I guess the deadline for the article in order to be in the next issue is this week
[14:09] <nixternal> damn, flying to australia, is that near chicago :p
[14:10] <Jucato> hm... australia.. near here... I think :P
[14:10] <nixternal> jjesse: this isn't going to be our only article from the looks of it:
[14:11] <nixternal> Would you like to contribute to start WITH (an installation and configuration
[14:11] <nixternal> articles) or News Section (regular section with short articles on
[14:11] <nixternal> newly-released Linux-based products, programs, distributions) ?
[14:11] <jjesse> Jucato: i bet it isn't that far from the phillipines
[14:11] <nixternal> it seems we will have more Kubuntu articles as well as news in their magazine as well
[14:11] <jjesse> nixternal: that would be great
[14:12] <_buz> Jucato: where in the philippines do you live?
[14:12] <nixternal> OK, I will work on getting this one started...are you going to be available via email so I could send it to you for ideas, clarification, and proofing?
[14:12] <jjesse> nixternal: yeah i'm taking my laptop w/ me and i'm teaching a class all week so i'll be avialable
[14:12] <nixternal> or are you going to be busy working and going out and exploring the outback :)
[14:13] <Jucato> _buz: Laguna.. near Metro Manila
[14:13] <nixternal> The Gorilla in Manila
[14:13] <Jucato> hehe!   Bridging the Vista between us all
[14:16] <Jucato> jjesse: would you be meeting up with Hobbsee? or will she be sending her LongPointyStick as proxy? :)
[14:16] <Hobbsee> that's the plan, but i hadnt realised it was so close to exams
[14:17]  * dasKreech doesn't even want to imagine the proxy arrangement
[14:17] <jjesse> that's a bummer, it would have been nice to meet sarah
[14:17] <Jucato> yeah...
[14:17] <Jucato> although I'd definitely be scared of her height..
[14:17] <Jucato> or all your heights for that matter :)
[14:17] <nixternal> you would have come home poked full of holes, so I don't see what is so nice about that :p
[14:17]  * dasKreech chuckles
[14:18]  * Jucato Chuckies
[14:18]  * nixternal sneezes
[14:18] <dasKreech> Wrong caps wrongcap!! My eyes oooh my eyes!!!
[14:18] <Hobbsee> jjesse: how long are you here for?
[14:18] <jjesse> i arrive on Friday morning and fly out the next friday
[14:19] <nixternal> damn, and you just said you are leaving wednesday..that is nuts
[14:19] <nixternal> but you are leaving on their thursday
[14:19] <Hobbsee> jjesse: right, OK
[14:19] <Hobbsee> jjesse: how busy are you over the week, and where will yo ube?
[14:19] <nixternal> youtube?
[14:20] <Jucato> lol
[14:20] <jjesse> Hobbsee: during the day i'm pretty busy, during the night don't know... my wife is traveling w/. me
[14:20] <Jucato> oh....
[14:20] <Hobbsee> jjesse: ah, cool.
[14:20] <Jucato> Hobbsee will get to meet the missus...
[14:20] <nixternal> just look out your window, you might catch them two running by
[14:20]  * Hobbsee notes that the canonical people are all still away
[14:21] <nixternal> mentally?
[14:21] <nixternal> :D
[14:21] <dasKreech> probably
[14:21] <jjesse> i'm right downtown, http://www.vibehotels.com.au/default.asp?page=/vibe+locations/sydney+hotels/vibe+hotel+sydney
[14:21] <jjesse> is the hotel i'm at
[14:22]  * Hobbsee nods
[14:22] <jjesse> that was recommend by the company i'm comming for
[14:23] <Hobbsee> fair enough
[14:23] <jjesse> so i guess i'll be right downtown
[14:23] <Hobbsee> yup
[14:24] <Hobbsee> on the city circle and whatnot.
[14:24] <Jucato> downstream...
[14:24] <Jucato> salmon...
[15:23] <bddebian> Heya
[15:24] <Jucato> hi ya bddebian!
[15:24] <jjesse> boo
[15:24] <bddebian> Hi Jucato
[15:24] <bddebian> and jjesse :)
[16:10] <Riddell> nixternal: KDE 4 packages I guess, depending on deadline
[16:10] <jjesse> morning Riddell
[16:11] <Riddell> hola jjesse
[16:11] <jjesse> wow has anyone been following the wiki page in regards to the Hardy Theme?  Everyone has comments, i feel sorry for kwwii
[16:15] <Riddell> nixternal: fridge story? http://canllaith.org/?page_id=48
[16:37] <jjesse_> man terrible connection today, can't figure out why
[19:30] <jjesse_> can't belive it might snow tonight :(
[19:31] <bobesponja> jjesse_: what's wrong with snow?
[19:32] <jjesse_> i like snow, its just a bit early
[19:33] <Riddell> it's certainly freezing in here
[19:33] <Riddell> but that has more to do with the air conditioning
[19:38] <jjesse_> well adjust the air conditioning then ;)
[19:40] <Riddell> it's behind lock and key
[19:40] <jjesse_> think of it as a hack to change it
[19:43] <fdoving> looking glass looks cool.
[19:53] <seele> snow?  in Boston?  who'da thunk (it *is* November :)
[19:53] <Tm_T> we still dont have snow :(
[19:53] <Tm_T> but sun at its highest reaches over horizon still
[19:54] <jjesse_> seele: i'm not in boston
[19:54] <seele> ah
[20:18] <nixternal> yay, SNOW TONIGHT!
[20:18] <nixternal> jjesse_: you should be fine though since you are on the east side of the lake...water is still a bit warm isn't it?
[20:18] <DaSkreech> Yay Snow... well never here
[20:18] <Riddell> nixternal: just in time for guy falkes night
[20:19] <DaSkreech> Maybe the Day after tomorrow? :)
[20:19] <nixternal> what?
[20:19] <nixternal> guy falkes night?
[20:19] <DaSkreech> Remember remember the Fifth of november ?
[20:19] <DaSkreech> Don't remember that?
[20:19] <Riddell> DaSkreech: gunfire, treason and plot
[20:19] <jjesse_> guy fawkes day
[20:19] <jjesse_> right?
[20:19] <nixternal> fawkes
[20:19] <nixternal> ya
[20:20] <Riddell> that's the dude
[20:20] <nixternal> hahah
[20:20] <nixternal> gunpowder!
[20:20] <DaSkreech> silly yanks :)
[20:20] <Riddell> oh well, I'm not English :)
[20:21] <nixternal> me either :p
[20:22] <nixternal> I am a miraculous mix of polish, irish, swedish, italian, scottish, american indian, and I am sure there are more in there
[20:23] <DaSkreech> And two peopel who were born in the UN building
[20:23] <DaSkreech> As long as you aren't a green alien possibly from Uranus
[20:23] <Riddell> UN building is one of the few parts of New York I have to see now, after my weekend visit
[20:24] <jjesse_> ah you went to NY over the weekend?  that's fun
[20:24] <DaSkreech> What happens if you are born in the UN building?
[20:24] <DaSkreech> Countries wait to see if you become really succesful before claiming you?
[20:39] <nixternal> Riddell: posted story on fridge and did a ping to the fridge list for approval
[20:41] <Riddell> thanks nixternal
[20:42] <nixternal> no problem
[20:45] <Serega> Riddell: John?
[20:46] <nixternal> man, canllaith works up kubuntu and then troy kills it
[20:46] <DaSkreech> nixternal: ?
[20:46] <buz_> not just troy two posts in a row
[20:46] <Riddell> Serega: hi (but I don't use silent h's)
[20:46] <manchicken> Man, I guess Ubuntu still has just as many trolls as Debian.
[20:47] <manchicken> nixternal: So is KDE4b4 on the repos?
[20:47] <Serega> Riddell: Hi (can't understand about silent h's) :)
[20:48] <Serega> Riddell: could you talk with me about my task?
[20:49] <nixternal> manchicken: it is in the ppa...now if you are using that lpia stuff then you are butt out of luck
[20:49] <manchicken> lpia?
[20:49] <Riddell> Serega: kaffeine codec install?
[20:49] <nixternal> need to recheck the builds and reup the package so it can rebuild
[20:49] <Serega> Riddell: yes
[20:49] <nixternal> Riddell: did you get back any fails on kdebase*
[20:49] <manchicken> Ah.
[20:50] <nixternal> I got some messages back from LP about some packages not building, which, besides the lpia ones, were the i386 ones...it seems their deps hadn't completed building before they were uploaded
[20:50] <Serega> Riddell: did you read my recent message in mailing list? I just feel some frustration and dunno what to do
[20:52] <Riddell> Serega: I don't think so, I'm behind on my e-mail
[20:52] <Riddell> what's the subject?
[20:52] <nixternal> we need to setup a meeting and check over stuff we did with 7.10 and really see if it was the best choices....anyone agree/disagree on this?
[20:53] <Serega> Riddell: libxine doesn't report any errors on attempt to play divx avi with no codecs
[20:53] <Riddell> Serega: found it
[20:53] <Riddell> nixternal: we need a kubuntu meeting at some point anyway
[20:54] <nixternal> when are you back and free?
[20:55] <Riddell> nixternal: this week would be possible most US times, next week after monday
[20:55] <Riddell> Serega: I confirm
[20:55] <Riddell> Serega: possibly tracking down the dude who did the code for amarok would help
[20:57] <nixternal> thursday, friday, saturday this week?
[20:57] <nixternal> tomorrow I will be at a christian college installing and consulting on a fairly nice sized *buntu install for absolutely FREE!
[20:57] <nixternal> Of course, I am pushing Kubuntu on their desktops and laptops!
[20:58] <DaSkreech> So notreally that much * then
[20:58] <nixternal> ubuntu server, and there will be about a 50/50 with ubuntu and kubuntu
[20:58] <nixternal> on the desktops
[20:58] <manchicken> nixternal: You need to get this KDE4 beta up and running ;)
[20:58] <Serega> nixternal: do not forget to apply apm fix to save the HDD's
[20:59] <nixternal> laptops will be personal choice...and lets just say when it comes to getting people to do something, I tend to be better at it than anyone else in the group :)
[20:59] <Serega> on laptops
[20:59] <DaSkreech> 50/50!
[20:59]  * DaSkreech shuns nixternal
[20:59] <nixternal> 5150!
[20:59] <DaSkreech> ah ha! Better :)
[20:59] <nixternal> DaSkreech: it is all about choice...if I put kubuntu on every machine, then I have killed the idea of choice haven't I?
[20:59] <manchicken> nixternal: Did you see that thing that Eddie and I are planning?
[20:59] <manchicken> nixternal: That's gonna be sweet.
[20:59] <nixternal> ya, feb sounds good
[21:00] <manchicken> Yup.
[21:00] <nixternal> you can count on my fat arse being there
[21:00] <nixternal> looks like I found a dev job too btw in Algonquin
[21:00] <DaSkreech> nixternal: Umm what about the rest of you to counter balance that?
[21:00] <nixternal> hopefully telecommute
[21:00] <manchicken> I put a talk in there about how we should be doing more apps where it's common backends with different GUI frontends.
[21:01] <nixternal> and the place is a unix shop, however there will be a little .NET programming to create a cross-platform tool
[21:01] <DaSkreech> Mono!
[21:01] <manchicken> Nice.
[21:01] <manchicken> Py!
[21:01] <DaSkreech> nixternal: What age school?
[21:01] <manchicken> I hope there's better support for Perl under KDE4... but I doubt it.
[21:01] <nixternal> it is a PHP, Perl, Python, Java, C++, .NET, MySQL, MSSQL, and I think that is about it
[21:01] <nixternal> DaSkreech: college
[21:02] <DaSkreech> Oh right college :)
[21:02] <DaSkreech> Edubuntu might not go over so well :)
[21:03] <nixternal> http://www.procedo.com/
[21:03] <nixternal> manchicken: ^^ that's the company there
[21:03] <nixternal> all data migration
[21:04] <manchicken> Neat.
[21:33] <manchicken> So have folks been moving over to hardy then?
[21:46]  * Serega rubs one's hands and smiles
[21:48] <DaSkreech> How do you rub one hand?
[21:48] <Riddell> Serega: oh?
[21:49] <Serega> DaSkreech: I suspect my Ru-En dictionary has betrayed me :)
[21:49] <Serega> Riddell: things go better! =)
[21:50] <DaSkreech> Serega: oh one's hands :)
[21:50] <Riddell> Serega: did amarok help?
[21:50] <DaSkreech> Serega: Sorry half asleep
[21:51] <Serega> Riddell: yeah, one minute into the source of amarok gived me a good avice
[21:51] <Serega> *gave
[21:51] <Serega> :)
[21:51] <Sime> Riddell: Hi, I've got a patch here for userconfig from someone. It adds permission based groups. (i.e. "Can use burner" etc) interested?
[21:51] <Riddell> Sime: oh jings, I've been meaning to look at that
[21:52] <Riddell> yes I'm interested, I suggested he do it
[21:52] <Sime> Riddell: well, someone sent me a patch which does that. It isn't i18n()ed. but it is a start.
[21:52] <Sime> ok, then. I'm busy with PyKDE4, stuff do want to handle it?
[21:53] <Riddell> Sime: what's the e-mail subject again?
[21:53] <nosrednaekim> go Sime!
[21:53]  * nosrednaekim <3 PyKDE
[21:53] <Sime> "New version of userconfig" from Manuel Amador (Rudd-O)
[21:54] <Sime> I'll forward it
[21:54] <Riddell> Sime: I've got it
[21:54] <Sime> I didn't see that. It must be BCCed
[21:55] <Riddell> Sime: forward it to me anyway, maybe he sent you a different version
[21:55] <Riddell> I'll look at it tomorrow
[21:55] <Riddell> along with the docs nixternal made for the website
[21:55] <Sime> no worries.
[21:56] <Riddell> Sime: how is PyKDE4 in beta 4?  worth packaging?
[21:56] <Serega> Good night, fellows!
[21:56] <Serega> bye
[21:57] <Sime> Riddell: I don't know if it compiles in beta4. BIC stuff was done just before tagging...
[21:58] <Sime> Riddell: bad timing.
[22:02] <nosrednaekim> hmmm this might be interesting for those of you who were debating wether or not to put some restricted stuff on kubuntu.. http://www.osweekly.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2689&Itemid=449
[22:08] <fdoving> Riddell: i removed ksplash and i like it. fyi.
[22:11] <DaSkreech> Is mplayer borken in Gutsy?
[22:13] <fdoving> DaSkreech: works for me, if it didn't break the last few days.
[22:13] <yuriy>  umm.. why does OO.o have a ubuntu logo on the splash screen
[22:13] <DaSkreech> Hmm
[22:14] <DaSkreech> can't seem to play vids
[22:14] <DaSkreech> I think this is the first time I've tried since the Gutsy upgrade
[22:14] <DaSkreech> I"ll hit it with something
[23:08] <Tm_T> uga: uga tsaga
[23:24] <nixternal> oi oi
[23:25] <Tm_T> sometimes I wonder who's who here
[23:25] <nixternal> me too
[23:26] <Tm_T> active ones is easy to know but umm, we dont have 60 active ones here
[23:26]  * gnomefreak semi active
[23:28] <Tm_T> gnomefreak: I know you, but there's several nicks I just cant say I have seen saying anything
[23:31]  * jjesse just got back from a run
[23:31] <jjesse> wow all this google open phone crap wheres the love for openmoko?
[23:32] <Tm_T> jjesse: its not google!
[23:32] <Tm_T> its not apple!
[23:32] <jjesse> yeah thats a bummer
[23:34] <n8k99> jjesse: couldn't find you in boston to give you a greet4ing, alas
[23:36] <nixternal> jjesse: I am very interested to see the Google stuff...Google has phone backing, openMoko has FIC only right now
[23:36] <nixternal> and openMoko hasn't even hit a development milestone yet, which were supposed to start a few months ago
[23:40] <jjesse> nixternal: google is hoping 2nd qtr of 2008 the first phone will ship
[23:40] <jjesse> hoping that is
[23:41] <nixternal> probably sooner than openMoko
[23:52] <IntuitiveNipple> Any ideas why kdelib's libkmid MidiPlayer component only plays the first note of a MIDI file (called from kmid) on x86_64 ?