[14:07] <Amarantine> Test
[14:09] <Amarantine> ist ehe 5th of November 3:08 sm aandere i miss ehe javaScript hands-on
[14:10] <Amarantine> +scopes
[14:11] <Amarantine> my phone does not interact good wwith this irc client
[14:44] <davidcalle> alex-abreu, marcustomlinson, https://hangouts.google.com/call/qi7heh35xv2zoki22n3g2myisya
[14:45]  * davidcalle gets a coffee, brb
[14:52] <davidcalle> Hey aquarius :)
[14:52] <aquarius> now, THIS session I have been looking forward to.
[14:53] <aquarius> For two years. At least. :-)
[14:55] <davidcalle> aquarius, same :)
[14:59] <davidcalle> We will start in 2 min
[15:01] <popey> hehe aquarius
[15:03] <ara> o/
[15:03] <popey> o/
[15:04] <aquarius> I got 50p says the answer ends up being node. :)
[15:05] <davidcalle> aquarius :)
[15:05] <aquarius> I win!
[15:07] <aquarius> hm, this is interesting; will my JS scope be able to bundle arbitrary node libraries? If so, that'd be delightful
[15:08] <alecu> aquarius: yes, you'll be able to bundle any node libraries.  Binary modules are supported? Was not expecting that!
[15:12] <alecu> question answered :-)
[15:16] <ara> I can imagine that this is going to boost the number of scopes in the store
[15:17] <pstolowski> awesome stuff
[15:22] <ara> what project, sorry?
[15:22] <ara> (examples)
[15:22] <aquarius> lp:unity-js-scopes
[15:22] <davidcalle> ara, unity-js-scopes
[15:22] <ara> ta
[15:23] <alecu> "javascriptonic" ?
[15:24] <ara> is this available in 14.04? or 15.10 only?
[15:24] <alecu> this might be a better starting point: https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/scopes/tutorials/developing-scopes-javascript/
[15:24] <alecu> ara: this is for unity8, so currently it's for the phone
[15:24] <ara> yes, I mean the SDK :)
[15:24] <davidcalle> ara, 15.04 and up
[15:25] <alecu> ah, great
[15:25] <davidcalle> Is the font big enough for everyone?
[15:25] <ara> not for me :/
[15:26] <aquarius> I can't read any of that at all
[15:26] <alecu> davidcalle: yes, please ask alex to increase the font
[15:27] <ara> or a lot :)
[15:27] <ara> much better :)
[15:27] <davidcalle> :)
[15:33] <marcustomlinson> that scope hasn't got art set, hence the error :)
[15:33] <marcustomlinson> typically you'd be required to try,catch over those methods
[15:43] <pstolowski> the scope code looks pretty neat
[15:43] <aquarius> roughly the same as the C++ API, which is nice.
[15:46] <davidcalle> aquarius, indeed, and with npm libs bundled in your click, you can do very feature-heavy scopes very quickly. My first go at it ended up in a movie search engine, with cover art and download link in less than 50 lines.
[15:46] <aquarius> :)
[15:47] <aquarius> gaah, cmake fails :(
[15:47] <pstolowski> marcustomlinson spoiled us with these bindings
[15:48] <pstolowski> people will never look back at C++ api :/
[15:50] <aquarius> oh, I have some questions :-)
[15:50] <aquarius> QUESTION: when will the documentation for this be published to developer.ubuntu.com? And will there be tutorials as well as just the API documentation that's currently in the project?
[15:50] <aquarius> QUESTION: when will the unity-js-scopes module be published to npm?
[15:50] <aquarius> QUESTION: will nodejs be exposed to apps as well so I can write QML apps which include a node back end (not a C++ back end)?
[15:50] <davidcalle> aquarius, https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/scopes/tutorials/developing-scopes-javascript/
[15:50] <aquarius> ha! you are gorgeous human beings.
[15:51] <alex-abreu> pstolowski, :)
[15:53] <aquarius> fair enough; it was worth asking ;)
[15:53] <aquarius> QUESTION: unity-js-scopes-dev doesn't exist in the PPA :(
[15:54] <aquarius> sudo apt install unity-js-scopes-dev -> E: Unable to locate package unity-js-scopes-dev
[15:54] <alecu> the api docs are already available on the -doc package, right?
[15:54] <alex-abreu> alecu, yes
[15:54] <aquarius> I have added the staging PPA.
[15:54] <aquarius> I'm running 14.04
[15:55] <aquarius> what?
[15:55] <aquarius> I can't run the LTS?
[15:55] <aquarius> oh. :-(
[15:55] <aquarius> Thank you anyway, team. This looks good.
[15:56] <alecu> bye guys!
[15:56] <alecu> marcustomlinson: alex-abreu: great session!
[15:56] <ara> thanks! bye!
[15:56] <alex-abreu> thx you guys
[15:56] <marcustomlinson> yeah thanks!
[16:13] <justCarakas> no video ?
[18:00] <ian-weisser> Getting the hangout going....
[18:03] <BrianLinuxing2> Evening all :)
[18:04] <ian-weisser> Almost there....
[18:04] <BrianLinuxing2> I shall get my tea
[18:07] <dholbach> video is live, but the sound is mute
[18:07] <ian-weisser> Well, Dang
[18:07] <BrianLinuxing2> no volume here
[18:08] <dholbach> still no volume
[18:08] <dholbach> maybe something in the mic settings?
[18:08] <ian-weisser> Well, drat. Worked fine in the test moments ago...
[18:08] <ian-weisser> Checking settings.  Might just start on IRC till it's sorted
[18:09] <dholbach> can you hear me?
[18:09] <PaulW2U> dholbach: I can hear you
[18:09] <BrianLinuxing2> got some sound
[18:09] <dholbach> ian-weisser, could you hear me when I was speaking?
[18:10] <dholbach> try again
[18:10] <dholbach> woohoo
[18:10] <PaulW2U> ian-weisser: yes
[18:10] <BrianLinuxing2> yes
[18:10] <dholbach> does anyone want to join the hangout?
[18:11] <Guest9062> howdy
[18:11] <dholbach> http://pad.ubuntu.com/uos-1511-growing-new-community-members
[18:11] <dholbach> ^ link to the pad
[18:12] <BrianLinuxing2> damn am getting "Authorization is required to access"
[18:12] <dholbach> brianLinuxing2: on the pad?
[18:12] <BrianLinuxing2> yes
[18:12] <popey> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-etherpad
[18:12] <popey> join that team
[18:13] <BrianLinuxing2> :) thanks
[18:13] <popey> approved
[18:13] <popey> now refresh the etherpad http://pad.ubuntu.com/uos-1511-growing-new-community-members
[18:13] <balloons> stuck on 2 factor
[18:13] <popey> :D
[18:13] <popey> \o/ \o\ \o/ core apps
[18:14]  * dholbach hugs popey
[18:14] <dholbach> any feedback and anecdotes from you guys?
[18:14] <dholbach> or do any of you want to join the hangout?
[18:15] <popey> Do we have every possible way of contributing covered by find-a-task?
[18:15] <balloons> when things are new and fresh, it's exciting
[18:15] <BrianLinuxing2> Ian's right. I'd didn't appreciate the opportunities were there to help out
[18:15] <balloons> when things are older, it can feel a bit more stale. More discovered. The interesting bits may or may not be left
[18:15] <popey> Do we have any metrics for usage of find-a-task? (I asked mhall119 for google analytics, but I don't think we have it)
[18:15] <BrianLinuxing2> And been using Ubuntu off and on since about 2004
[18:16] <balloons> QUESTION: Do we have numbers from find-a-task? How many hits?
[18:16] <popey> dholbach, no
[18:16] <popey> dholbach, we should
[18:16] <popey> Conversion rate, yeah.
[18:16] <BrianLinuxing2> might I make a suggestion?
[18:17] <popey> I am having difficulty thinking of people who _recently_ came to the project to contribute, no matter where they came from.
[18:17] <popey> BrianLinuxing2, knock yourself out.
[18:17] <dholbach> BrianLinuxing2, sure
[18:17] <BrianLinuxing2> I would suggest being outward facing. Doing more external events.
[18:17] <popey> Yeah, +1 to that.
[18:17] <BrianLinuxing2> Let people know you exist
[18:17] <popey> Beyond our bubble.
[18:17] <BrianLinuxing2> Exactly
[18:17] <balloons> I know we just changed the site to feature it prominently
[18:18] <dholbach> popey, balloons, BrianLinuxing2: want to join the hangout?
[18:18] <BrianLinuxing2> Its not sites, it is meetup, community events
[18:18] <BrianLinuxing2> being at hackathons
[18:18] <BrianLinuxing2> being visable
[18:18] <dholbach> BrianLinuxing2, and you would present like the doc team at those events?
[18:19] <BrianLinuxing2> I teach Linux at a meetup but until I met Thibuat I hadn't appreciate y'all were still "alive"
[18:19] <dholbach> :-)
[18:21] <BrianLinuxing2> Surely you have to get a pool people first, then push them towards what they like/can do?
[18:21] <BrianLinuxing2> Fresh blood I mean
[18:22] <BrianLinuxing2> On-line is good, people being visible at technical events, hackathon, etc helps people see Ubuntu is still around
[18:22] <popey> yup
[18:23] <BrianLinuxing2> there are technical events, 100s every week in London, being there just to say "yeah Ubuntu is still very active, we can always do with your help" would bring people in
[18:24] <BrianLinuxing2> then there is the process of "what do they like doing?"
[18:24] <BrianLinuxing2> we have these things, you could do....
[18:25] <BrianLinuxing2> Agree with Ian, about ask ubuntu people not knowing what is there.
[18:27] <BrianLinuxing2> advert idea is good
[18:27] <BrianLinuxing2> plus stackflow, etc
[18:27] <BrianLinuxing2> its better than mine :)
[18:28] <BrianLinuxing2> or potential users
[18:29] <BrianLinuxing2> Got to throw the net widely, anyone that uses XP wants to use Ubuntu, but doesn't know how to help out
[18:30] <popey> http://meta.askubuntu.com/questions/12379/community-promotion-ads-2015
[18:30] <popey> found it!
[18:30] <BrianLinuxing2> Why not Twitter and the whole branch of social media too?
[18:32] <BrianLinuxing2> If you send me links to the adverts I will promote on Twitter
[18:33] <BrianLinuxing2> sensible point from Allan
[18:35] <BrianLinuxing2> a few small video might be good too.
[18:36] <dholbach> nice idea
[18:37] <BrianLinuxing2> a lot of people don't like just textual info, as the complete source, whereas a small video clip would reach a wider audience
[18:39] <BrianLinuxing2> me, I am useless at video, but navigating the pages is a pain.
[18:39] <BrianLinuxing2> what videos? what pages to ask? how to do it
[18:39] <BrianLinuxing2> I agree they are hard
[18:40] <BrianLinuxing2> but to reach a wider audience, different methods needed
[18:40] <BrianLinuxing2> not everyone, like us, process textual pages as we do.
[18:41] <BrianLinuxing2> whereas "creative" types process info differently, as educationalists have found
[18:42] <BrianLinuxing2> just a quick "you want to help out" - small clip on "this are the pages for you, and how to do it"
[18:42] <BrianLinuxing2> simple stuff
[18:43] <BrianLinuxing2> like recording a desktop session, etc
[18:43] <ali1234> in my opinion "find a task" is too generic
[18:44] <dholbach> that's<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[18:44] <dholbach> ali1234, what would you rather see?
[18:44] <ali1234> dholbach: something that helps me find an actual task
[18:44] <BrianLinuxing2> ok Ian might do that
[18:44] <ali1234> i mean i already knew before going to that page that i'm best suited to coding
[18:44] <ali1234> that doesn't help me find coding tasks
[18:44] <dholbach> ali1234, ah... so a database of things which need to be developed
[18:45] <dholbach> right
[18:45] <dholbach> we have something like that up at harvest.ubuntu.com
[18:45] <ali1234> dholbach: yes a list of actual things that you need/want doing
[18:45] <dholbach> but that's just for development tasks
[18:46] <ali1234> yeah harvest looks more like what i want
[18:46] <akronix> how to get into the system development of Ubuntu?
[18:46] <balloons> thanks for the session ian-weisser
[18:46] <BrianLinuxing2> been good listening
[18:46] <popey> yeah, good point ali1234
[18:46] <BrianLinuxing2> :)
[18:46] <ian-weisser> Thanks everyone for participating!
[18:46] <dholbach> akronix, http://packaging.ubuntu.com/ might be interesting for you
[18:47] <dholbach> thanks a lot everyone
[18:47] <ian-weisser> Lots of good ideas, feedback, and useful tasks.
[18:47] <ian-weisser> We'll make this thing work yet....
[18:54] <ali1234> dholbach: i just clicked a random task on harvest and it took me to a bug that was fix released 18 months ago
[18:55] <dholbach> ali1234, oh.... which bug was that? where did you see it listed?
[18:55] <ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/freeciv/+bug/202327
[18:56] <ali1234> and i unticked the package filter to see all packages and it's listed under freeciv
[18:59] <ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-app-install/+bug/155059 is another (appears under homebank)
[19:05] <ali1234> i would like to be able to filter this by programming language
[19:44] <balloons> ali1234, by language.. not sure that's doable


[02:46]  * duflu spies Intel 10th gen CPUs in bug reports from OEM people and gets excited
[04:17] <duflu> Jet lagged jamesh?
[04:17] <duflu> Or flying out soon?
[04:23] <jamesh> flying home later today
[04:24] <jamesh> and apparently with a 7.5 hour layover in Doha :-(
[05:38] <oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
[05:39] <duflu> Morning oSoMoN
[05:42] <oSoMoN> hey duflu
[05:46] <didrocks> good morning
[05:53] <jibel> hi didrocks
[05:53] <duflu> Morning didrocks
[05:53] <duflu> and good morning jibel
[05:53] <oSoMoN> salut didrocks, jibel
[05:53] <jibel> hi all
[05:55] <didrocks> hey jibel, duflu, oSoMoN
[06:25] <clobrano> good morning 0/
[06:31] <didrocks> hey clobrano
[06:31] <ricotz> good morning desktoppers
[06:31] <oSoMoN> good morning clobrano, ricotz
[06:31] <didrocks> hey ricotz
[06:31] <ricotz> oSoMoN, didrocks, hey
[06:33] <ricotz> oSoMoN, hi, is there some reasoning for switching to clang for ff69?
[06:34] <oSoMoN> ricotz, yes, the ppc64el builds would fail or fail to run in all sorts of ways with gcc
[06:34] <ricotz> oSoMoN, does this correspond to the build policy between mozilla and canonical?
[06:34] <oSoMoN> I would have preferred to anticipate that and do the switch in the beta branches
[06:35] <oSoMoN> ricotz, also clang is used by upstream to produce official builds, so this better aligns with them
[06:35] <ricotz> I see, and yes, switching it now it quite something
[06:37] <ricotz> oSoMoN, still the changelog must provide some information about why doing this
[06:37] <ricotz> or some bug report
[06:37] <ricotz> did you try to build it with llvm-9 on eaon yet?
[06:38] <oSoMoN> not yet, no
[06:39] <oSoMoN> ricotz, your help is welcome if you want to test that
[06:39] <ricotz> oSoMoN, hmm, I can follow this with 70, but as you said it is a quite late invasive change for 69
[06:45] <duflu> Morning ricotz
[06:45] <ricotz> hey duflu
[06:55] <Wimpress> Morning o/
[06:56] <oSoMoN> hey Wimpress
[07:04] <jibel> is night mode gone from gnome-shell?
[07:04] <jibel> I'm stuck with a red-ish display
[07:06] <duflu> jibel, sometimes colour profiles stick. Try just toggling the colour profile in settings
[07:06] <jibel> duflu, I've no color profile
[07:06] <duflu> And if you don't need one then delete the default, which fixes a bug
[07:07] <jibel> duflu, there use to be a mode to shift to red based on time of the day
[07:07] <jibel> duflu, and I'm block in night mode
[07:07] <seb128> goood morning desktopers
[07:07] <duflu> Morning seb128
[07:07] <oSoMoN> good morning seb128
[07:08] <seb128> the night mode is in the display settings panel
[07:08] <duflu> jibel, I can't find the setting. Might just be gnome-control-center though. To fix it you might need to hack gsettings
[07:08] <seb128> it's in the control center yes
[07:08] <duflu> seb128, not in 3.33
[07:09] <seb128> it's a page in display
[07:09] <duflu> For at least two of us
[07:09] <duflu> Nope
[07:10] <seb128> well it is
[07:10] <seb128> maybe it's not working for you
[07:10] <seb128> but by design/code that's where it's supposed to be
[07:10] <duflu> Probably the feature still exists, but the GUI is strangely gone
[07:10] <seb128> it was moved in https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-control-center/commit/50be7b13c
[07:11] <duflu> Ah! Bad design
[07:11] <seb128> it's supposed to be  a row on the page
[07:11] <duflu> jibel, it was moved to a button in the titlebar
[07:11] <duflu> No wonder we couldn't find it
[07:12] <seb128> that
[07:12] <RAOF> Oooooh.
[07:12] <RAOF> My screen blanks each time the AMD gpu gets (temporarily) turned on!
[07:12] <seb128> hey RAOF
[07:12]  * RAOF notices this because opening the Display tab causes the discrete GPU to be turned on.
[07:12] <RAOF> Hey seb128!
[07:13] <duflu> I don't consider the titlebar "in a page"
[07:13] <duflu> Plus the colour makes it less obvious
[07:14] <seb128> is it better in Adwaita?
[07:14] <seb128> could be a theme problem...
[07:14] <duflu> Not sure, but that wouldn't move it
[07:14] <seb128> right, but that is not a new problem
[07:14] <seb128> even fileselector widgets have actions in the tittlebar
[07:15] <seb128> I don't like that design decision of GNOME either...
[07:27] <duflu> seb128, I think the problem is more g-c-c-specific. If you select a panel then you don't expect the contents of that panel to be outside of it
[07:28] <seb128> duflu, you should open a bug on gitlab as design feedback
[07:28] <duflu> seb128, design bugs are hard and slow, but more to the point I already had a heated discussion with its author yesterday
[07:28] <duflu> So no more comments for a while
[07:29] <seb128> :(
[07:29] <seb128> George again?
[07:29] <seb128> was it on gitlab/about the revert?
[07:29] <duflu> No, not related
[07:29] <duflu> They are keen to land geometric-picking but apparently intend to rewrite it. Just never said so in the MR
[07:29] <duflu> And still haven't said so publically
[07:30] <duflu> So I just ended up saying, yeah fine
[07:30] <duflu> Or publicly
[07:35] <duflu> In better news, mutter 3.33.91 brings one frame lower output latency to Xorg, as well as lower input latency for touchpad scrolling
[07:36] <duflu> Feels good, but there's more yet to land for smoother rendering
[07:37] <seb128> lut oSoMoN, désolé j'ai oublié de répondre avec les discussions, en forme ? :)
[07:37] <seb128> duflu, getting there! slow, but still :)
[07:42] <oSoMoN> seb128, ça va, hâte d’être en vacances et encore 10000 trucs à faire avant
[07:42] <oSoMoN> et toi?
[07:42] <seb128> un peu pareil :)
[07:46] <jibel> duflu, thanks. I didn't see it at all. buttons in the title bar are really a bad choice
[07:47] <jibel> however the feature is broken somehow. enabling/disabling it doesn't change the color and my display is still red
[07:48] <jibel> août 29 09:48:01 sark gsd-color[21255]: could not find device: property match 'XRANDR_name'='HDMI-0' does not exist
[07:48] <jibel> août 29 09:48:01 sark gsd-color[21255]: could not find device: property match 'XRANDR_name'='HDMI-0' does not exist
[07:48] <jibel> I suppose this is why
[07:48]  * jibel files a bug
[07:49] <seb128> file it upstream please
[07:49] <seb128> we don't have anyone downstream to deal with that atm I think
[07:56] <jibel> I cannot adjust the system volume in gnome-control-center, there is no cursor on the slider. Is anyone else seeing that?
[07:57] <duflu> jibel, yeah it's broken. Needs a bug. Though the shell menu works
[07:58] <jibel> I'll file a bug for that too
[07:58] <willcooke> morning
[07:59] <duflu> jibel, actually for me that's because sound isn't working
[07:59] <duflu> I can select the device though
[07:59] <duflu> Morning willcooke
[08:00] <Laney> hello
[08:01] <duflu> Hi Laney
[08:06] <Laney> hi duflu
[08:07] <Laney> seb128: did you see https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches-proposed.svg ?
[08:07] <Laney> umm https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.svg
[08:08] <seb128> Laney, yes, doko commented about it on the rygel MIR, thx
[08:08] <Laney> cool
[08:15] <ricotz> seb128, hi :), how is it going with vala 0.46?
[08:15] <ricotz> Laney, hey
[08:17] <Laney> hi ricotz
[08:17] <seb128> ricotz, hey, we got busy getting the main part of the desktop updated and missed feature freeze, we would need a ffe now
[08:17] <seb128> also I'm on holidays tonight for a week so probably not something I'm going to be able to help with until I'm back
[08:18] <ricotz> seb128, I see, too bad, I am hoping for it getting into eoan
[08:18] <seb128> you could file the ffe :)
[08:21] <ricotz> seb128, this would lead to a lot of work :(
[08:22] <seb128> the ffe bug? it's only a few lines of rational, you have a test rebuild ppa ready
[08:22] <ricotz> time which is better invested upstream
[08:22] <seb128> k, as you prefer
[08:22] <ricotz> the ppa is outdated already, I guess
[08:22] <seb128> we will likely not have 0.46 this cycle is no-one is wanting to help with it though
[08:22] <seb128> right but it gives an indication
[08:23] <ricotz> with work, I mean fixing those those failures for ancient packages
[08:24] <seb128> yeah, well it's the deal if we want to update
[08:26] <ricotz> correct
[09:30] <ginggs> did something break unity desktop yesterday?
[09:31] <seb128> specifics?
[09:51] <willcooke> On E?  L_aney commented on discourse that it's likely related to the systemd work
[10:06] <ginggs> yes, on eoan.  k_alam asked yesterday "There is some issue with recent gnome-session update, if I try to update, it tries to uninstall unity-session ?"
[10:07] <ginggs> my unity-session didn't get removed, but whenever I try to log in, the screen goes blank, and after a few seconds I end up at the login screen again
[10:10] <seb128> ginggs, see https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/testing-unity-session-in-eoan-ubuntu-19-10/10690/64
[10:10] <seb128> L_aney uploaded a fix now it
[10:11] <ginggs> seb128: thank you!
[10:11] <seb128> Laney, no upload on eoan-changes/launchpad, in case it failed to upload and you didn't notice
[10:22] <seb128> (worked now)
[10:23] <Laney> I'm having some connection issues with the Canonical network
[10:56] <didrocks> Trevinho: hey, did you try to new Shell with the "autohide" behavior for the dock? I wonder if this is what is making it crashing
[10:56] <didrocks> I have weird "push here" behavior (like the dock is hiding/showing/hiding/showing very quickly)
[10:57] <didrocks> so, there is at least this bug
[10:57] <didrocks> and I'm unsure if the crash is related or not yet
[10:57] <didrocks> (apport is collecting the trace)
[10:57] <seb128> let me try to turn that on, I've been on the new stack since before GUADEC and got 0 crash here
[10:57] <didrocks> seb128: not 100% hit
[10:57] <seb128> (but also intel where I expect you have nvidia?)
[10:57] <didrocks> yep
[10:58] <didrocks> at least the "autohide bug" shouldn't be (or would it?) card-specific
[10:58] <didrocks> but right now, the dock is showing up properly :/
[10:58] <didrocks> oh, I have 2 monitors now that I'm back home
[10:58] <didrocks> and the dock is between the 2 monitors
[10:58] <didrocks> maybe that's what triggering the issue
[10:59] <didrocks> (but again, can't get back the "show" bug that I already got 3 times)
[11:02] <didrocks> Trevinho: seb128: I subscribed you both on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/1841921, let's see once retraced
[11:02] <didrocks> "503 (Service Unavailable). Failed to subscribe Marco Trevisan (Treviño)." I see how some people are doing on their bug strategy :p
[11:03] <seb128> didrocks, thx, autohide on single screen and no segfault so far here
[11:04] <didrocks> seb128: yeah, didn't get a new one either, but 3 in a raw is concerning
[11:04] <didrocks> and my setup didn't change: 2 monitors, dock in between since the crash :p
[11:04] <didrocks> at least, we have a stracktrace, let's see once retraced
[11:05] <didrocks> and once launchpad will let me subcribe Trevinho to the bug…
[11:07] <Trevinho> Ahahaha.... Bugwalled!
[11:08]  * didrocks checks launchpad commits from Trevinho
[11:10] <didrocks> ahhhhhhhhhhhh, you are now subscribed, mwahahahahaha
[11:10] <seb128> hey Trevinho, did you have a safe trip back?
[11:13] <didrocks> lalala, crash again :/
[11:14] <didrocks> seems definitively related to revealing the dock
[11:14] <Trevinho> seb128: yes, got home quite late (3am) as there was half hour delay and I had to drive one hour to get home (and thank God I took the car or I would have been stuck in the airport or forced to taxi to an hotel)
[11:14]  * didrocks turns autohide off for now
[11:14] <Trevinho> so I swapped today to help dayana in her last full day here
[11:15] <didrocks> Trevinho: waow, 3am, was it scheduled like that or you got delayed?
[11:16] <seb128> Trevinho, stop being on the computer then :)
[11:18] <didrocks> so, duplicate of https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/1841794
[11:18] <didrocks> (and already 3 duplicates)
[11:18] <Trevinho> didrocks: was 00.35, then luggage, delay + car home from Bologna to Florence
[11:18] <didrocks> Trevinho: ah, from Bologna… yeah, that explains
[11:18] <didrocks> take some rest! :)
[11:25] <Trevinho> didrocks: yeah direct flights were only by Ryanair in Italy so I preferred to move to get the fight than doing changes and pay a flight to Greece 500€
[11:29] <didrocks> make sense
[11:30] <didrocks> hum, no more repeated key with my integrated volume up/down key on my keyboard
[11:30] <didrocks> (long press -> only one tick)
[11:31] <didrocks> seb128: do you reproduce this as well? ^ (keep volume up pressed for instance, I just have one volume increase)
[11:32] <Laney> nope, works for me
[11:32] <didrocks> doesn't on my internal & external keyboard (only for volume, works for brightness)
[11:34] <seb128> didrocks, key repeat doesn't work for me either
[11:34] <seb128> Laney, you and your wayland session :p
[11:34] <didrocks> cking: thanks for answering! That was my bet, but I preferred getting an authoritative answer
[11:35] <cking> didrocks, no problem :-)
[11:36] <Laney> could be
[11:36] <seb128> didrocks, Laney, key repeat works (and play sounds which I think it didn't do before) when under wayland
[11:36] <seb128> also I got the segfault playing a bit with the dock on autohide between monitors
[11:36] <didrocks> ok, so xorg-specific, let me file a bug
[11:36] <seb128> so no nvidia specific
[11:36] <seb128> upstream please :)
[11:36] <didrocks> sure
[11:37] <seb128> thx
[11:37] <didrocks> but still one on our side for tracking?
[11:38] <seb128> if you believe it's rls-ee material sure, otherwise unsure it's very useful
[11:38] <seb128> but doesn't hurt either
[11:39] <seb128> the segfault seems to happen easily when playing with the dock and doing some dnd of icons when e.g nautilus is over it
[11:40] <didrocks> yeah, seeing that we got 1 bug + 3 duplicates in one day, sounds like it will be popular
[11:41] <seb128> it's a real bug, I can't trigger it in single monitor
[11:42] <didrocks> which explains why I didn't see it either before getting back home
[11:43] <seb128> likely one for Trevinho once he's back to work, tomorrow or next week
[12:18] <seb128> Laney, thx for upstreaming that gcc sound issue :-)
[12:19] <Laney> np
[13:04] <Wimpress> Afternoon Laney.
[13:04] <Wimpress> Th Ubuntu MATE 19.10 daily image is exhibiting an interesting feature.
[13:04] <Wimpress> It boots GNOME Shell.
[13:05] <seb128> wooot
[13:06] <seb128> is it loading in french at least? ;)
[13:06] <Wimpress> I know you've all just been to GUADEC and are feeling super enthusiatic, but... ;-)
[13:06] <Laney> have you done some investigation that led you to ping me?
[13:07] <seb128> give it at least  a few days before jugging if you like it or not!
[13:09] <Laney> Probably some dependency change
[13:09] <Wimpress> GNOME Shell is being pulled in via update-notifier, which is seeded by Ubuntu MATE.
[13:10] <Wimpress> update-notifier Recommends: gnome-shell | notification-daemon
[13:10] <Wimpress> mate-notification-daemon Provides: notification-daemon.
[13:10] <Wimpress> It's been that way for years.
[13:11] <Laney> Something must have changed.
[13:11] <Wimpress> in the last 24 hours, GNOME Shell is now pulled in to Ubuntu MATE.
[13:11] <Laney> There are multiple chains, that's not going to be the oen.
[13:11] <Laney> one.
[13:12] <seb128> Wimpress, does 'aptitude why gnome-shell' is helpful?
[13:13] <Wimpress> Yeah, that ^ is what led me to update-notifier.
[13:13] <Wimpress> I was just asking in case it prompted anything regarding system and user session.
[13:13] <Wimpress> Clearly not, I'll go hunting...
[13:14] <Wimpress> *systemd and user session
[13:14] <Laney> You shouldn't have gnome-shell on the ISO, that's orthogonal to the systemd stuff
[13:14] <Laney> it'll be a packaging level thing
[13:14] <RikMills> Wimpress: kylin mentioned the same thing the other day. i.e. gnome-shell getting pulled in
[13:15] <seb128> update-notifier didn't change since aug 1st
[13:15] <seb128> so not likely it
[13:16] <RikMills> * Chose ubuntu-session to satisfy gnome-shell
[13:16] <RikMills> * Chose gnome-shell to satisfy libnotify4
[13:16] <RikMills> ^^ from kylins germninate
[13:22] <Wimpress> RikMills: Thanks. I'll take a look.
[13:25] <Laney> Good luck /o\
[14:12] <Laney> Wimpress: had a look and I can't immediately see what's going on
[14:14] <Laney> it does look like it's pulling gnome-shell due to libnotify4, but mate-notification-daemon ought to be satisfying that recommends too, so I'm not quite sure
[14:49] <Wimpress> Laney: Yeah, I'm just testing what happends if I add libnotify4 to the Ubuntu MATE core seed and meta packages.
[14:50] <Wimpress> This germinate output is also "interesting"
[14:50] <Wimpress> * Chose gnome-shell to satisfy screen-resolution-extra
[16:14]  * oSoMoN logs off for 10 days, see ya all in a while!
[16:15] <didrocks> see you oSoMoN
[18:17] <willcooke> night all


[06:54] <AlanBell> ali1234: some atom boards are 2048 if you consider that modern
[07:02] <MooDoo> hello all
[07:08] <diplo> Morning all
[07:11] <AlanBell> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-18419231 linus on the beeb
[07:35] <diplo> Good read AlanBell
[07:48] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[07:58] <diplo> morning brobostigon
[07:58] <brobostigon> morning diplo
[08:05] <czajkowski> morning
[08:08] <directhex> BADGER
[08:09] <brobostigon> hedgehog
[08:11] <DJones> 40 Tonne truck....Squelch
[08:16] <bigcalm> Goooooooooooood morning you lovely techies :)
[08:23] <dwatkins> good morning one and all
[08:23] <bigcalm> Ah, life
[08:24] <dwatkins> Don't talk to me about life </Marvin>
[08:24] <bigcalm> :)
[08:25] <czajkowski> https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/200246  anyone want to help a new user out
[08:30] <JamesTait> Good morning all! :)
[08:41] <popey> czajkowski: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/Driver/bcm43xx
[08:50] <s-fox> Hello.
[08:54] <bigcalm> Good morning - this time with coffee
[09:05] <Ross____> what do I need to know to feel comfortable in a linux sys admin job?
[09:05] <Ross____> I so badly want one
[09:06] <Ross____> I learnt a scripting language and bash, I play around with distributions
[09:07] <mungojerry> Ross____, learn the RHCE course
[09:07] <mungojerry> go throug the syllabus and buy the RHCE book
[09:07] <Ross____> ahhhh cheers!
[09:07] <Ross____> :D
[09:08] <Ross____> Sounds like fun
[09:08] <mungojerry> and learn to follow instructions exactly, and always check and double check before making changes, and have a backout plan for when trhings go wrong
[09:08] <mungojerry> and do "fun projects" at home, and learn to enjoy mundane stuff, and always document stuff
[09:09] <Ross____> always docment stuff? Hmmm sound advice :)
[09:09] <MartijnVdS> docuwhat?
[09:09] <Ross____> document
[09:10] <Ross____> I think in six months when I probably will know even more than I do now, I am just going to apply for entery linux sys admin jobs anyway
[09:11] <mungojerry> i still wouldn't (and didn't in the past) hire a sysadmin who knows loads about linux , but lacks the personal qualities to do good work and not break stuff
[09:14] <mungojerry> and don't use customised anything unless absolutely necessary i.e. stock hardware and stock kernel
[09:15] <mungojerry> i get annoyed when i see people patching mysql and kernel for frivolous reasons, and then becoming a mysql maintainer just for themselves, having to patch every release
[09:15] <Ross____> The Linux Documentation Project is fantastic
[09:15] <mungojerry> also, there's a debian administrator's manual which has just been released
[09:16] <mungojerry> on a pay as you like download (inckluding free)
[09:18] <Ross____> There is one thing i am avoiding
[09:18] <Ross____> and that's using vim or emacs
[09:18] <Ross____> I mean, there isn't much time :(
[09:18] <DJones> Just been asked to recommend an app for editing word and excel on an iPad.... Why ask me, I have an Android tablet?
[09:20] <mgdm> Ross____: the advantage of vim is that it's installed *everywhere*
[09:20] <mungojerry> and it's easy to learn the basics
[09:20] <mgdm> Ross____: so if you can do basic text editing in that, you'll be ok on any random system, which might not have nano or whatever
[09:20] <mungojerry> just buy the vim mug
[09:21] <Ross____> hmmmm well I may reconsider
[09:23] <diplo> Defo, vi basics are quite simple.. just google vi cheat sheet
[09:23] <diplo> All you need for day to day
[09:23] <dwatkins> I made a point of learning vi and emacs at least to the extent of being able to write a small file, in case I needed to do that in order to install another text editor. I ended up sticking with vi and I still use it all the time now, 20 years later.
[09:24] <diplo> I *had* to learn vi, all that was installed on our AIX box at work, and we weren't allowed to install anything else
[09:24] <dwatkins> yeahm, I quickly discovered that vi is ubiquitous.
[09:24] <diplo> I'm still no master by any means, but use it everyday
[09:24] <dwatkins> there are some amazing things you can do with vi, but my brain can't handle half of them ;)
[09:25] <Ross____> I heard it is a good python editor
[09:25] <dwatkins> syntax hilighting in vi is really handy
[09:25] <Ross____> I still use gedit with an embedded terminal
[09:25] <shauno> in the installer, when I get this purple screen with the logotype and five dots; is there any way to dismiss this screen?
[09:26] <dwatkins> does gedit do this as well, Ross____? http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_hBuHSXuyA14/Sk3_RwjCtoI/AAAAAAAAAF0/Kp8roNcDhFk/s400/Picture+1.png
[09:28] <Ross____> syntax highlighting?
[09:28] <Ross____> yes
[09:28] <Ross____> depending what theme you set, I guess
[09:28] <diplo> And from the suggestion of RHCE, that's quite hard core to set your goals to
[09:29] <diplo> LPIC is probably a better bet, or Linux+ which gives you the LPIC course certs afaik
[09:30] <KrimZon_2> in 10.04, how do I change the login screen theme?
[09:30] <popey> LolPIC
[09:30] <KrimZon_2> I want to make it so you need to type a username rather than just select one
[09:31] <mgdm> meh, RHCE isn't bad, you can go via the RHCT course first if you want
[09:31] <mgdm> RHCE builds on that
[09:31] <mgdm> I've never come across anywhere that considered the LPI to hold any weight, but RHCE does
[09:32] <mgdm> (NB: this is my own experience)
[09:32] <diplo> yeah, also a lot dearer.. not putting people off whole heartedly(sp?)
[09:32] <diplo> I want to do it, but a few things have stopped me
[09:32] <Ross____> you don't have to do this to get a linux job do you?
[09:33] <mungojerry> or just follow the RHCE syllabus which is printed online, and learn from the textbook
[09:33] <Ross____> some of these seem expensive
[09:33] <Ross____> for the wages I am on
[09:33] <mungojerry> i self learned, and added the certs afterwards to prove it
[09:33] <diplo> Ross____: I've worked on Unix/Linux on and off for ten years and haven't taken any course
[09:33] <diplo> So no, it's not needed
[09:34] <diplo> I'm intending to do what mungojerry says once I have some free cash
[09:40] <bigcalm> Just made myself the most perfect pot noodle ever
[09:40] <bigcalm> So happy
[09:41] <popey> 10:40 pot noodle?
[09:41] <Laney> 10:40 — pot noodle break
[09:41] <popey> if I ever have pot noodle I under-cook it, like the pasta a bit crispy
[09:41]  * Laney cleans bigcalm's windows
[09:41] <Ross____> So how should I document new things I discover?
[09:42] <Ross____> what's the best way to do it ?
[09:42] <KrimZon_2> ahh, apparently it's plymouth
[09:42] <bigcalm> popey: I rarely eat breakfast, this was an energy requirement
[09:42] <popey> ah
[09:42] <popey> i made two poached eggs on toast for brekkie
[09:42] <popey> yummy
[09:43] <Ross____> slamming it into a document sounds boring to me
[09:44] <bigcalm> Ross____: doing actions over and over again every day will embed themselves into your memory
[09:44] <mgdm> I hadn't had a pot noodle in many years until last week
[09:44] <mgdm> I had a craving for one of the curry ones
[09:44] <diplo> bigcalm: Pot Noodles are the work of some very dodgey people! Don't do that to yourself :(
[09:44] <bigcalm> Ross____: without looking it up, how do you extract a bz2 tarball?
[09:45] <dogmatic69> bigcalm: server administration is an open book test :P
[09:45] <diplo> Ross____: I'm learning 'simple' at the moment, a in house programming language.. I use google docs to write down stuff to point me in the right directions but not the whole answer
[09:45] <bigcalm> Time's up: tar zjvf foo.tar.bz2
[09:46] <bigcalm> dogmatic69: fair enough, but one should still know day to day commands without having to look in a man page :)
[09:46] <dogmatic69> I have to look up tar.gz decompression *EVERY TIME*
[09:46] <dogmatic69> :/
[09:47] <dogmatic69> as far as my brain is concerned its something like tar -djfsklgasjdflaksd file.tar.gz
[09:47] <popey> bigcalm: zj?
[09:47] <bigcalm> popey: no, my mistake :D
[09:47] <popey> also
[09:47] <popey> no need ☺
[09:47] <bigcalm> hehe
[09:47] <popey> tar autodetects these days
[09:47] <bigcalm> It does? :(
[09:47] <popey> it does ☺
[09:48] <popey> so you dont need the j or or the z
[09:48] <bigcalm> I have to force myself to replace x with c when I'm creating a tarball. Early morning confusion made me replace x with j
[09:51] <bigcalm> Pot noodle be gone :(
[09:51] <bigcalm> Sounds like I've just banished it
[09:54] <diplo> lol popey I didn't know that either, learn something new every day as the old adage goes
[09:58] <popey> AlanBell: scaling that image down by 4 massively detracts from your point
[10:01] <AlanBell> I didn't think it did, but I will put the full size version up at some point then
[10:01] <bigcalm> The pointer looks odd as well
[10:01] <dwatkins> hooray, I shall be building a Lego Pi case this evening
[10:02] <bigcalm> Humm, shall I sneak in a little more of Limbo?
[10:02] <AlanBell> bigcalm: yeah, it got scaled by accident, I didn't realise it was there until after. My point was about the launcher and panel so I didn't think it mattered
[10:02] <popey> well, it's inaccurate. "this is what it looks like". "no, it doesn't", "you missed my point", "you lied" ☺
[10:03] <AlanBell> gah
[10:03]  * AlanBell will do a better image
[10:03]  * bigcalm hugs AlanBell
[10:03] <diplo> :)
[10:03] <AlanBell> and the launcher and panel will be the same proportion to the desktop as in the mockup
[10:20] <AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/screenshots/unityretinafull.png happy now?
[10:20] <bigcalm> That's big
[10:21] <mungojerry> as for documentation, i use tomboy synced across machines for quick notes, and then add them to a wiki (twiki or docuwiki) for others on friday afternoons
[10:21] <mungojerry> woops, ross____ has gone
[10:21] <directhex> AlanBell, that's missing the point of retina display isn't it? idea is to scale so it "feels like" 1920x1200, but with better detail
[10:21] <mungojerry> i use psr on windows, which is one of the best apps i know, and wish it was on linux
[10:22] <AlanBell> directhex: yes, my entire point was that Ubuntu won't look particularly useable on such displays unless some scaling is done
[10:22]  * AlanBell is surprised at the number of ways such a point can be missed!
[10:22] <bigcalm> :)
[10:23] <directhex> new father. mental scrollback limit is ~10 lines
[10:23] <bigcalm> directhex: getting any sleep at night?
[10:23] <AlanBell> you are forgiven, and context was spread across mailing lists and G+
[10:24] <popey> well i saw it first on G+
[10:24] <popey> and it wasn't explained well at all there
[10:24] <directhex> bigcalm, a few hours
[10:24] <directhex> non-sequentially
[10:25] <diplo> heh, children are great
[10:25] <diplo> Don't worry, it doesn't get better as they get older
[10:26] <bigcalm> Yeah, I'll keep my sanity and get a cat/dog in a few years
[10:26] <diplo> :)
[10:26] <diplo> Not sure about that, my sister just got a 9 week old puppy
[10:27] <diplo> Been getting her up at 04:30 each morning for a wee
[10:27] <diplo> Amongst nibbling her toes to make sure she is awake
[10:27] <mungojerry> put newspaper down?
[10:28] <diplo> I think she prefers to be woke up as at least the dog knows it needs to pee outside
[10:28] <bigcalm> Hayley can look after the puppy. I'll cuttle the kitten
[10:28] <diplo> heh, I'd say kittens are worse than pups
[10:28] <bigcalm> Cuttle?
[10:28] <diplo> Rip the place to shreds whilst they are learning
[10:29]  * mungojerry is still in desktop limbo after quitting unity again
[10:29] <mungojerry> KDE looks stable now but i think i've moved on
[10:32] <popey> you change desktop more often than I mow my lawn
[10:32] <directhex> how opften do you mow your lawn?
[10:34] <diplo> mungojerry: I was using Cinnamon but that was crashing to much
[10:34] <diplo> Gone back to Gnome Fallback
[10:35] <diplo> Stable works all the time
[10:35] <mungojerry> i've been on gnome 2 since about 2003
[10:35] <bigcalm> I've spent the morning writing documentation and feel that I've wasted my morning
[10:36] <czajkowski> pah
[10:36] <bigcalm> czajkowski: I write code, not docs!
[10:36] <mungojerry> bigcalm, whoever succeeds you will thank you in your absnce
[10:36] <bigcalm> :O
[10:36] <mungojerry> so put your name on it :D
[10:37] <czajkowski> bigcalm: you should always do both.
[10:37] <mungojerry> i would definitely be using gnome3 right now if it wasn't a collection of the most bizarre decisions ever made
[10:38] <mungojerry> diplo, i'm on fallback atm
[10:38] <mungojerry> has a few quirks though
[10:38]  * AlanBell is on unity and lxde on the raspberry pi
[10:38] <gord> developers are always the worst documentation writers
[10:38] <mungojerry> checkgmail and pidgin don't work in the notification area, and some weird window behaviour
[10:38] <bigcalm> Actually, I need to refactor the documentation for this API I wrote. Is there a suggested format for API documentation?
[10:38] <AlanBell> would like to run unity on the pi
[10:39] <gord> bigcalm, doxygen style works well, as long as doxygen supports your language
[10:39] <gord> AlanBell, you are on unity and lxde?
[10:39] <bigcalm> gord: I don't need an automated one. Just need to re-write the document I've already written in a more consistent style
[10:40] <AlanBell> gord: unity on my laptop and lxde on the pi
[10:40] <mungojerry> is it true about the helicopters looking for green lawns and hosepipes?
[10:40] <gord> AlanBell, unity2d no worky?
[10:41] <AlanBell> gord: not tried building it yet, I was waiting for popey to do it
[10:42] <mungojerry> how is the raspi performance wise?
[10:42] <mungojerry> running lxde
[10:42] <mungojerry> similar to an eee pc 701?
[10:43] <gord> oh right yeah, because the pi is the old arm architecture
[10:43] <popey> mungojerry: its the same as an iphone 3
[10:44] <dogmatic69> Just tried to install php5-gd and got this warning:
[10:44] <dogmatic69> WARNING: The following packages cannot be authenticated!
[10:44] <dogmatic69>   libxpm4 libgd2-xpm libt1-5
[10:44] <mungojerry> popey, i've never run ubuntu on an iphone though.
[10:44] <mungojerry> eeepc felt quite sluggish
[10:44] <dogmatic69> first time I have seen that, is it ok?
[10:44] <mungojerry> the keyboard was quite laggy sometimes
[10:44] <popey> my kids both run 12.04 + unity 2d on an Eee 900
[10:44] <popey> 900Mhz Celeron, 2GB RAM
[10:45] <mungojerry> hmm, same spec
[10:45] <popey> dogmatic69: getting those from a ppa?
[10:45] <dogmatic69> no
[10:45] <dogmatic69> just apt-get install
[10:45] <popey> no, the 701 is underclocked to 600MHa
[10:45] <popey> *MHz
[10:45] <dogmatic69> no ppa's
[10:45] <popey> 660 or so
[10:45] <mungojerry> although every time i updated my eeepc the cpu freq governor needed setting up differently
[10:46] <dogmatic69> http://mirror.rackspace.com/ubuntu/ precise/main libgd2-xpm
[10:46] <mungojerry> the eeepc was the last time i allowed myself to be early adopter man
[10:47] <mungojerry> i have no use for raspi at the mo that my slug doesn't do, but later on i'd like a raspi on my telly
[10:47] <mungojerry> but want a faster version
[10:47] <mungojerry> since xbmc doesn't even run properly on my powerpc mac mini
[10:48] <popey> xbmc works okay on my pi
[10:48] <popey> played with it last night with a boxee remote
[10:48] <AlanBell> mungojerry: it performs fine, the CPU is slow, the GPU is fast, I am using it to do ssh stuff in terminals so nothing taxing
[10:48] <mungojerry> i couldn't even get past the first screen on the powerpc. must be the decent gpu
[10:49] <gord> will wait until they upgrade the cpu before replacing my revos, can't be doing with building stuff myself
[11:03] <diplo> I might order my Rasp this week actually
[11:03] <diplo> everyone talking about them
[11:03] <diplo> :)
[11:05] <popey> damn you bigcalm, I'm off to the co-op to get a pot noodle!
[11:06] <popey> although i may be tempted by other things in there..
[11:06] <bigcalm> Bwuhaha :D
[11:06] <diplo> Nooooo! Pot Noodles are evil
[11:07] <bigcalm> And I'm off to subway to get a Chicken Pizziola
[11:07] <diplo> Then again I'm off for a Boatmans breakfast, so I am not one to say about eating healthily
[11:07] <czajkowski> pot noodles reminds me of college and my mates living away from home used to live on them
[11:07] <diplo> Horrible things!
[11:07] <mungojerry> i appear to have no way of seeing my contacts list in pidgin
[11:08] <mungojerry> just the auto opened windows
[11:08] <popey> http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/publications/about-us/consultations/equal-civil-marriage/
[11:08] <popey> offtopic but meh, so is pot noodle ☺
[11:09] <popey> (no need for discussion, just making sure people see it)
[11:09] <KrimZon_2> does anyone know how to change the login menu to require a username to be typed in rather than just selected?
[11:20] <KrimZon_2> aha: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1609008
[11:22]  * czajkowski hugs popey
[11:54]  * popey has chicken soup
[11:56] <MartijnVdS> poor chicken
[11:57] <AlanBell> I hardly ever feed my chickens on soup
[12:00] <popey> that was yum
[12:01] <czajkowski> oh exciting , I'll be going to my old college next year and giving a talk on how to translate packages/applications into other lanauges using Launchpad, and hopefully going to be giving a talk to some secondary school students :)
[12:01] <KrimZon_2> yum install soup
[12:53] <diplo> Couldn't eat another thing!
[13:22]  * bigcalm nods to mrmist
[13:31] <diplo> Beat you to it popey :D
[13:31] <popey> heh
[13:32] <popey> didnt realise that was you!
[13:32] <diplo> o/
[13:32] <diplo> Yeah that ugly git, really need some new photos taken of me for my profiles
[13:33] <diplo> Only thing I hate about posting to busy comments is the notifications
[13:33] <diplo> :)
[13:35] <AlanBell> popey: as luck would have it OMG have nicely explained my point for me
[13:36] <popey> \o/
[13:38] <gord> for what its worth, the dash resizes to try and fit nicely on large displays and the launcher can be configured to be larger. panel can't but that's a few lines of code to put in a configure option
[13:39] <gord> i'm more worried about trying to grab window borders at that dpi
[13:51]  * czajkowski peers at gord leave my window border on it's lonesome
[13:55] <bigcalm> It's currently a pixel hunt in xubuntu
[13:56] <gord> yeah, in compiz we put a fake window around your window that lets you have a few extra pixels that you can resize your window by. its an X issue really
[13:57] <AlanBell> it is a people who write themes with no borders issue :)
[13:58] <AlanBell> bring on wayland
[13:58] <AlanBell> and *real* shadows
[14:02] <ali1234> and absolutely no ability to change the window manager at all
[14:03] <ali1234> seriously though, i do find it funny that people would pay a $1000 premium to get a screen where you can't read anything because the DPI is ridiculously high
[14:03] <AlanBell> yeah, the fact that windows draw their own decoration is a bit odd
[14:03] <AlanBell> I would pay for that screen
[14:03] <AlanBell> and run unmodified 12.04 on it tbh
[14:03] <ali1234> AlanBell: they don't just draw their own decoration. the whole window manager is built into the server
[14:04] <ali1234> imagine having to patch xorg if you want a tiling WM. that's wayland
[14:04] <ali1234> i would buy a 2880x1800 screen if it was 40"
[14:04] <AlanBell> I don't want a tiling WM, I want real shadows.
[14:04] <ali1234> anything less than that and it is stupid
[14:05] <ali1234> your screenshot is unreadable on a 24" monitor
[14:06] <ali1234> but really though, you could always use one of the actually finished desktops
[14:07] <gord> uh, so. you increase text scaling to conform to your dpi
[14:07] <gord> its not like you stick with a tiny 10pixel font
[14:07] <ali1234> yeah
[14:08] <ali1234> believe it or not, there are actually desktop environments that do that for you automatically
[14:08] <ali1234> for example gnome, kde
[14:08] <AlanBell> shoudl get dpi from the EDID information I think
[14:08] <gord> gnome never did, it was terrible at getting your dpi. didn't have one machine that it ever managed to set automatically
[14:09] <ali1234> yeah, that's just nonsense
[14:09] <gord> now they removed the dpi option and you are just left with scaling
[14:09] <AlanBell> EDID does often lie
[14:09] <ali1234> not EDID. it;s the drivers
[14:10] <gord> i've had edid lie to me a lot, with tv's especially
[14:13] <ali1234> what's the actual DPI of it? 204?
[14:15] <davmor2> ali1234: I've have EDID report a size of x=1024x768 y=1024x768  trust me EDID lies it depends which manufacture has done it
[14:15] <directhex> EDID lies, but so do drivers
[14:15] <ali1234> uh-hu
[14:15] <AlanBell> 220 apparently, I thought it was 204 but I got it worng
[14:15] <AlanBell> wrong
[14:16] <directhex> i've had some drivers able to get correct EDID, and other drivers get wrong EDID, from the same device, on the same hardware, via the same cable
[14:16] <ali1234> you do know that EDID reports horizontal and vertical refresh rates right? it's up to the video card to decide the actual modes
[14:17] <AlanBell> also reports physical screen size
[14:17] <AlanBell> badly
[14:17] <AlanBell> lots of TVs claim to be a 7 inch panel
[14:17] <ali1234> TVs are very bad
[14:17] <directhex> TVs are super bad
[14:17] <ali1234> but we're not talking about TVs, we're talking about a $2000 laptop
[14:18] <directhex> partly because of 1366x768, which is not a valid mode, so the TV has to lie by definition
[14:18] <ali1234> what is not valid about it?
[14:19] <directhex> 1366 is not divisible by 8, so most cards can't output it. hence most 1366x768 tvs either scale by 6 pixels, or have a 3 pixel letterbox either side, and only accept 1360x768 as a mode
[14:20] <ali1234> i see
[14:20] <bigcalm> davmor2: ping
[14:20] <directhex> of course, in 2012, all tvs should just do 1080p
[14:20] <davmor2> bigcalm: you pinged
[14:21] <ali1234> that explains why so many people have problems using HDTVs in linux tbh
[14:22] <popey> 1080p... with overscan
[14:22] <directhex> overscan /o\
[14:23] <bigcalm> davmor2: a) what time are we having pie, b) want a lift on my way though Wolves?
[14:23] <bigcalm> Bloody overscan
[14:24] <directhex> who thought overscan was useful on digital displays?
[14:24] <bigcalm> through
[14:24] <directhex> any hdmi device requesting it should be returned a flashing HD "feck off" image
[14:28] <davmor2> bigcalm: a) when everybody gets there, b) no ta I might need to dash off, but thanks for the offer
[14:28] <bigcalm> davmor2: fair enough. I'll aim for 7.30 as usual then
[14:28] <bigcalm> Ooo, looks like rain \o/
[14:29] <diplo> Guys thoughts on this please..
[14:29] <davmor2> bigcalm: yeap then we tend to hang around till every who says they are coming gets there then order as it is 2 for 1 on Wednesdays unless they have changed it  so we all pair up and split the pie bill
[14:29] <bigcalm> Oooo
[14:29] <diplo> We have customers who want back ups to usb devices
[14:30] <bigcalm> diplo: if they are mains powered, sounds fair enough
[14:30] <diplo> So we have written bash scripts that want to mount as usb1 dir or usb2
[14:30] <davmor2> diplo: doddle standard ups unit and a usb plug
[14:31] <diplo> I've used uuid to identify devices
[14:31] <diplo> But we don't want to automount so fstab is set to noauto
[14:31] <ali1234> what does mains power and UPS have to do with this?
[14:31] <diplo> So as ali1234 pointed out to me yesterday mount -a won't work
[14:31] <bigcalm> I'm confused
[14:31] <diplo> How would you work out what device was plugged in to mount
[14:32] <ali1234> if won't work *if* you put noauto in fstab
[14:32] <ali1234> so don't put noauto in fstab...
[14:32] <bigcalm> Oh, backups, not back UPS
[14:32] <ali1234> anyway just use udisks
[14:32]  * bigcalm goes back to sleep
[14:32] <directhex> autofs!
[14:32] <diplo> OK, udisks, I will google now
[14:32] <diplo> I'm sure I had a quick look at autofs
[14:33] <diplo> Will relook at that aswell
[14:33] <diplo> Want a better solution, as ours sucks.. I only did part of it.. but keeps failing as logic sucks
[14:33] <ali1234> https://github.com/ali1234/autoflash
[14:34] <diplo> Past my level of python, but taking a look now thanks ali1234
[14:35] <ali1234> "we want to hand out usb flash drives with some files on at a conference. here's a box of 1000 blank usb flash drives and the files are in your email"
[14:36] <diplo> ah right so the format part was for a particular reason not recommended reason. So could remove that..
[14:36] <diplo> I will have a play I think
[14:37] <diplo> No special dependencies with the imports ?
[14:58] <Twinkletoes> The ubuntu nagios packages seem to be a fair way behind what nagios offer on their website.  Precise repos have 3.2.3, and the nagios website has 3.4.1 which has quite a lot of fixes over 3.2.3.  Would you advise going with the package from teh nagios website?
[14:58] <diplo> Source Twinkletoes ?
[14:59] <diplo> When i used to idle in the nagios channel and take notice, their package at the time had lot's of issues, and the guys in there recommended using repo packages
[14:59] <diplo> I still use 3.2.3
[14:59] <Twinkletoes> diplo: Ah
[15:00] <diplo> But from memory that was 3.3.* something
[15:00] <diplo> Don't think it was 3.4.*
[15:00] <Twinkletoes> Quite a lot of fixes and enhancements: http://nagios.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/nagios/nagioscore/trunk/Changelog?view=markup
[15:02] <Twinkletoes> I'm running on 10.04 at the moment, so I'm stuck with 3.2.0-4ubuntu2.2 from the repos, unless I can persuade it to use the package from 12.04?
[15:02] <diplo> there is a ppa, but only the nagios-agent has been updated for Precise
[15:02] <Twinkletoes> diplo: ppa?
[15:02] <diplo> For me, unless you have a specific issue with the pacakage I wouldn't upgrade
[15:02] <diplo> https://launchpad.net/~nagiosinc/+archive/ppa?field.series_filter=precise
[15:03] <diplo> Natty was 3.2.3 still on it's build
[15:03] <bigcalm> Peeps in here, would you recomend: gpa or seahorse?
[15:03] <popey> for what?
[15:03] <Twinkletoes> diplo: Thanks :)
[15:03] <bigcalm> Getting started in gpg
[15:03] <diplo> I've been using 3.2.3 for 2 years with no particular issues Twinkletoes
[15:03] <popey> seahorse, given we ship it
[15:03] <bigcalm> I want to sign my emails and only just reading https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GnuPrivacyGuardHowto
[15:03] <popey> ahh
[15:04] <popey> i use thunderbird and some plugin
[15:04] <diplo> And it seems they haven't made lot's of additions, just approvements
[15:04] <bigcalm> I have thunderbird and the gpg plugin. But I need to set up keys :)
[15:05] <popey> ah yeah, use seahorse
[15:05] <bigcalm> Ta
[15:06] <Laney> keep a safe and secure copy of the revocation certificate!
[15:07] <Azelphur> EVGA GTX 680 Classified comes with water blocks at stock :o
[15:07]  * Azelphur wants
[15:07] <bigcalm> Laney: I'll print it out ;)
[15:07] <Laney> imagine typing one of those things in :(
[15:08] <bigcalm> We used to type in programs from MicroUser et al
[15:10] <davmor2> bigcalm: +1 for using seahorse
[15:10]  * bigcalm goes for a shower while the keys are generated :S
[15:10] <directhex> Azelphur, there have been gpus with manufacturer waterblocks for years
[15:10] <Azelphur> true, but this is a GTX 680 and it has quad screen support \o/
[15:10] <popey> what is a waterblock?
[15:11] <directhex> popey, for water cooling
[15:11] <directhex> popey, it's a specially shaped copper (usually) block which clamps to the graphics card instead of heatsink/fan, and the internal water channels are optimized for coolant flow
[15:11] <popey> cunning
[15:12] <AlanBell> silver would be better ;)
[15:12] <Azelphur> I have a nickel one :o
[15:13] <directhex> e.g. http://photos.dangerden.com/GPU-Blocks/GTX680/i-cVJ59FH/0/L/IMGP1559-L.jpg
[15:13] <directhex> AlanBell, the main thing is to pick a metal which suffers from minimal corrosion, and maximum heat transfer. and to never mix metals in the same system
[15:13] <directhex> AlanBell, e.g. stray copper and aluminium in the same water system will fur up overnight
[15:14] <popey> golly
[15:14] <Azelphur> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/2012/June/IMG_20120613_161238.jpg here's my CPU water block, just took this photo :D
[15:15] <directhex> http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=91402&stc=1&d=1230125543 is a cpu block where someone mixed alu and copper
[15:15] <Azelphur> clearly need to get that finger print off it :P
[15:16] <Azelphur> directhex: my loop is growing that crap too :(
[15:16] <directhex> Azelphur, what are all the devices in your loop made from? sounds like you've got a mix
[15:16] <Azelphur> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/2012/June/IMG_20120606_204531.jpg here's mine xD
[15:17] <Azelphur> directhex: EK Supreme HF Nickel, and a Black Ice GTX 480 but not sure what it's made of
[15:18] <directhex> the cpu block is plated copper
[15:18] <Azelphur> ah
[15:19] <directhex> the rad is copper
[15:20] <Azelphur> everything is copper then?
[15:20] <directhex> nickel shouldn't be reactive
[15:20] <Azelphur> yet still growing life forms :(
[15:20] <directhex> what water are you using?
[15:20] <Azelphur> distilled water with biocide
[15:20] <directhex> reservoir?
[15:21] <Azelphur> XSPC DDC Bay - Acrylic Dual 5.25 Reservoir
[15:21] <directhex> hm
[15:22] <directhex> sounds like you're doing all the right things, tbh
[15:22] <Azelphur> yay
[15:22] <Azelphur> I figured perhaps that stuff was algea so I poured a bunch more biocide into the loop recently
[15:22] <Azelphur> is there anything that might clear it from the system?
[15:23] <directhex> not sure. i never had the guts to actually deploy a water system. just researched it a lot
[15:23] <directhex> ended up with low noise air instead
[15:23] <Azelphur> hehe, it's been a fun adventure
[15:24] <Azelphur> will be cool once it's done, as I should never really have to touch it after that
[15:24] <popey> cool!
[15:27] <davmor2> Azelphur: look like limes scale you should be able to treat it with scale remover the only way I know to keep it removed currently is with some strong magnets attached to the pipework but I guess that isn't the answer you are looking for
[15:27] <Azelphur> sure, I can do a strong magnet somewhere in the loop
[15:28] <Azelphur> how does that work, collect it so you can remove it?
[15:28] <AlanBell> heh, so when it blocks you know where the blockage is
[15:29] <directhex> strong magnets in a pc? foolproof!
[15:29] <davmor2> Azelphur: Nope it is done on household pipe work and just means the limescale doesn't bond to itself
[15:29] <davmor2> directhex: that was kinda my point :)
[15:30] <Azelphur> oh cool
[15:30] <Azelphur> would that remove the existing limescale too?
[15:30] <Azelphur> I could put a huge magnet on the radiator, that wouldn't be an issue at all
[15:31] <Azelphur> or perhaps on the res, although that might be a bit close to the HDDs for my liking :P
[15:31] <popey> \o/ ssd
[15:32] <Azelphur> got one of them too, I have 5 HDDs total
[15:32] <davmor2> Azelphur: it will but it takes a while, It's fun watching ours reduce the limescale on our kettle, the kettle is slowly getting silver-erererer
[15:32] <Azelphur> nice
[15:33] <Azelphur> davmor2 https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/2012/June/IMG_20120606_225647.jpg is my setup
[15:33] <Azelphur> so I could just place a magnet on the top of the radiator
[15:33] <oimon> :( installing lubuntu-desktop doesn't give me the same experience as installing just lubuntu. any suggestions? very glitchy desktop session otherwise
[15:34] <Azelphur> half-done setup anyway
[15:35] <davmor2> Azelphur: what are you doing with that box that it requires that?
[15:35] <Azelphur> nothing really, I'd probably get along just fine with high performance air cooling
[15:35] <Azelphur> but, it looks cool and is fun
[15:37] <Azelphur> davmor2 plus I can overclock to ridiculous levels, having a faster computer is always useful
[15:40]  * AlanBell decideds to strap some water cooling to a raspberry pi
[15:40] <AlanBell> or just dunk it in a bucket
[15:40] <popey> booted up my beaglebone last night
[15:40] <popey> shame it doesnt have hdmi
[15:41]  * Azelphur has to wander for dinner anyway :p
[15:41] <Azelphur> AlanBell: look up submersive oil cooling, I was so very tempted.
[15:42] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: cooking oil? :P
[15:46] <ali1234> i just tested DPI handling in kde, gnome 3, gnome 3 fallback, and MATE
[15:46] <ali1234> and of course MATE is the only one that works properly
[15:47] <ali1234> KDE tries but just ends up looking like a mess due to allowing developers to switch between pixel and point sizes at will, so you get dialogs where half the writing is tiny and half is huge
[15:48] <oimon> did you take screenshots ali1234
[15:48] <ali1234> anything based on gtk3 completely overrides display DPI and forces it to be 95
[15:48] <ali1234> oimon: yes, i did
[15:48] <oimon> gonna write a blog post?
[15:48] <ali1234> maybe
[15:49] <oimon> i'm tempted to trash my work PC and use lubuntu full time
[15:49] <oimon> shame i can't seem to get it to co-exist on my ubuntu setup
[15:49] <ali1234> basically the conclusion i have drawn is that if you want a properly working desktop, you should use MATE
[15:50] <ali1234> specifically the problem with all the others is they've been taken over by UI designers who think anything they don't understand is superfluous
[15:50] <czajkowski> Bug Linking Part 2 -  http://blog.launchpad.net/general/bug-linking-part-2
[15:50] <oimon> did you try lxde?
[15:50] <ali1234> no
[15:50] <czajkowski> please do be reading that :)
[15:50] <ali1234> i didn't try xfce either
[15:50] <oimon> how do you change DPI?
[15:50] <MartijnVdS> buying a new screen
[15:51] <MartijnVdS> increasing resolution on current screen dimensions?
[15:51] <ali1234> in xorg.conf you put option "useediddpi" "false"
[15:51] <ali1234> option "dpi" "204 x 204"
[15:53] <oimon> lxde is flippin fast
[15:58] <oimon> linus torvalds won the millenium tech prize
[15:59] <oimon> joint winner meh
[16:00] <bigcalm> Would it not have been meh if he won it all to himself?
[16:00] <oimon> dunno
[16:00] <oimon> linux is about sharing i guess
[16:08] <bigcalm> That should be gpg sorted out now then
[16:10] <AlanBell> with powerline networking why does the electricity meter block the signal and prevent it leaking to next door?
[16:10] <bigcalm> It doesn't
[16:10] <AlanBell> I mean on a technical basis, apparently it does do this, I can't see how
[16:10] <bigcalm> But next door will be on a different phase
[16:10] <bigcalm> General rule of thumb is every 3rd house in the street will be on the same phase
[16:11] <bigcalm> What will mess it up are UPS and surge protectors (I think)
[16:11] <popey> AlanBell: it doesnt
[16:12] <popey> bigcalm: have you uploaded your key?
[16:12] <bigcalm> popey: Good point, maybe not :)
[16:12] <AlanBell> http://www.faculty-x.net/homeplug-blog/?p=4 bad FAQ then
[16:13]  * bigcalm does so
[16:14] <popey> AlanBell: they all come with encryption these days
[16:16] <bigcalm> popey: done
[16:17] <bigcalm> Feel free to sign my public key ;)
[16:17] <popey> nope
[16:17] <bigcalm> Not working?
[16:17] <popey> no, I'm not signing some random key
[16:17] <popey> how do I know it's yours?
[16:17] <bigcalm> Good lad
[16:17] <ali1234> oimon: i posted screenshot: https://plus.google.com/u/0/117474986382867317779/posts
[16:18] <ali1234> +s
[16:20] <directhex> ali1234, tried today's bastion build? should have joypads
[16:20] <ali1234> i dunno, is it on software centre?
[16:20] <ali1234> if it isn't, then i haven't
[16:24] <bigcalm> popey: have you been able to decrypt the email yet?
[16:24] <popey> yeah, i did ages ago
[16:24] <bigcalm> Oh, good
[16:24] <popey> just wanted to reply but couldn't cos your key wasnt public
[16:25] <bigcalm> It is now
[16:28] <bigcalm> How frequently does the ubuntu keyserver update?
[16:29] <czajkowski> AlanBell: lot of folks use google docs to draw up wireframes
[16:29] <czajkowski> or is it google draw
[16:29] <czajkowski> hmm one of em
[16:30] <bigcalm> In a weird way, I like getting stuck in Limbo. Not once yet looked at a walk through and slowly making progress :D
[16:30] <bigcalm> Any other games like Limbo peeps can recommend?
[16:32] <AlanBell> czajkowski: interesting, I have never used that, though I use the other bits of google docs
[16:32] <AlanBell> doesn't seem particularly well adapted to GUI design
[16:33] <czajkowski> saw some folks use it for mock up recently
[16:33] <directhex> ali1234, doesn't look like it, although USC version numbers are different to upstream
[16:33] <czajkowski> looked very poished
[16:33] <czajkowski> *polished
[16:33] <czajkowski> AlanBell: they culd create their images and save them for future so just reuse them
[16:34] <AlanBell> ah, so not using the built in shapes
[16:34]  * bigcalm pokes keyserver
[16:36] <czajkowski> bigcalm: how long ago ?
[16:36] <czajkowski> AlanBell: well yes in some cases, but in others, creaating the image you're going to reuse over and over to save you have to create it
[16:36] <bigcalm> czajkowski: more than 15 mins ago
[16:37] <bigcalm> czajkowski: One of my keys is up there
[16:37] <popey> bigcalm: limbo is a very nice little game, i like it
[16:37] <bigcalm> Oh, both are now :)
[16:37] <czajkowski> bigcalm: patience so :) can take a while to updated
[16:37] <AlanBell> czajkowski: yeah, I still like pencil but I can see the co-editing in google docs is quite handy
[16:37] <czajkowski> AlanBell: not seen anyone co-edit, though the possibility is there
[16:37] <AlanBell> co-editing in pencil would be even better
[16:37]  * bigcalm scratches his head
[16:38] <bigcalm> I only get my cuth.eu key in a search result on my name. But if I search by the key hex id, I can see my idophp.co.uk key
[16:39] <bigcalm> Maybe it caches searches
[16:39] <bigcalm> Just capitalised my names and it now shows both keys :)
[16:42] <bigcalm> Hazar! Just got key into launchpad
[16:47] <bigcalm> Bah, gmail on android doesn't do gpg
[16:47] <bigcalm> Do iOS devices?
[16:49] <popey> dunno, not tried
[16:50] <davmor2> bigcalm: have a look at firegpg plugin for firfox and see if it is available on android and use FF to access your gmail and use the FF firegpg plugin
[16:50] <davmor2> bigcalm: the other thing to look for is pgp rather than gpg
[16:50] <czajkowski> http://niederfamily.blogspot.be/2012/06/silencing-of-maya.html  one of the most sadest blog posts I've read in a long time :(
[16:50] <bigcalm> Indeed. I used pgp a _long_ time ago
[16:52] <bigcalm> ACK!
[16:52] <bigcalm> I haven't got my laptop ready for tomorrow
[16:52] <davmor2> bigcalm: print off your key and bring you driving license tomorrow and I'll sign your key :)
[16:52] <bigcalm> Really don't want to do it after midnight tonight
[16:52] <bigcalm> davmor2: hehe, sure. I read that bit and thought about doing so :P
[16:54] <davmor2> bigcalm: there is a nice gpg signing party script some where out there that gives you an nice a4 page of important info for you to hand out
[16:55] <bigcalm> One of the best guitar intros ever: The Smiths - How Soon Is Now?
[17:17] <davmor2> bigcalm: Guns 'n' Roses Paradise city, AC/DC Thunderstruck, Led Zeplin "Stairway to heaven", guns 'n' roses knockin' on heavens door, Jimi Hendrix Voodoo Child or All along the watch tower I could go on but don't have time :P
[17:18] <directhex> ali1234, 2012-06-12 build works for me, joypadwise. with my 360 pad.
[18:06] <ali1234> how do i report a bug when i have a crash dump and exact steps to reproduce?
[18:06] <ali1234> when i try to use ubuntu-bug it just files a whoopsie report and does not ask me for any details
[18:46] <ging> is there a flash update that has stopped bbc iplayer working on ubuntu?
[18:47] <ali1234> no, it works fine here
[18:48] <ging> it's now saying i need to install flash player
[18:48] <ging> i was using it on sunday
[18:52] <ging> why doesn't it work!!!!
[18:56] <MartijnVdS> restart chrome
[18:57] <MartijnVdS> or $browser
[19:01] <ging> i have
[19:01] <ging> firefox
[19:04] <ging> i've installed the lastest package from the adobe website
[19:04] <ging> but i don't understand why the ordinary one was not working
[19:12] <czajkowski> ging: are you breaking things :)
[20:15] <czajkowski> popey: I know you;ve mentioned not being able to see private bugs before but still knowing they are there.  you may want to me too this bug. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apport/+bug/764414
[20:15] <popey> czajkowski: I'm now on bugsquad so I can see private bugs now :D
[20:16] <popey> I have me-too'ed it though ☺
[20:19] <czajkowski> coolio
[20:19] <ali1234> why is psychonauts on software centre for free?
[20:24] <popey> its not here
[20:24] <popey> its 9.99 usd
[20:24] <ali1234> for me it appears twice when i search
[20:25] <ali1234> one for free and one for 9.99, and with different descriptions
[20:25] <ali1234> and which ever one i click they are both listed as "free"
[20:25] <popey> ahh
[20:25] <popey> i havent clicked the button on the special page yet
[20:25] <popey> so I only see the paid one
[20:25] <ali1234> i clicked it last night and left it installing, but this morning it wasn't installed and software centre was gone
[20:26] <ali1234> has anyone tried lone survivor yet?
[20:27] <ali1234> can't get it to work at all, it's a flash projector - that means an ancient version of flash player wrapped into an exe file
[20:27] <ali1234> it spits out a load of errors about menuproxy and then dies
[20:28] <ali1234> btw, none of the other games appear twice in software centre. they only appear as the pay versions
[20:28] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu Accomplishments 0.2 Released - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/06/13/ubuntu-accomplishments-0-2-released/
[20:40] <popey> right
[20:40] <popey> listen here
[20:40] <popey> what can I do to see which bit of firefox is eating my cpu?
[20:40]  * popey tickles chrisccoulson for an answer
[20:40] <ali1234> which bit?
[20:41] <ali1234> it's always the same bit: flash plugin
[20:41] <ali1234> the rest of ff only likes to eat ram
[20:41] <popey> heh
[20:41] <popey> yeah, i am watching a video on youtube and its stuttering
[20:41] <popey> on a 2.8GHz CPU
[20:41] <ali1234> lol
[20:41] <chrisccoulson> yeah, flashplugin is always the first thing i kill
[20:41] <ali1234> well that's a bad start
[20:42] <chrisccoulson> for memory use, about:memory comes in handy ;)
[20:42] <popey> memory i am less bothered by
[20:43] <popey> its that my cpu is being eaten alive
[20:43] <popey> ~60% by firefox
[20:43] <popey> be nice if it had a tab cpu monitor like chrome
[20:43] <popey> may be time to switch back to chrome again
[20:43] <ali1234> there's a fun bug in pulseaudio where buffer underruns make it max the CPU (probably polling for next buffer)
[20:43] <ali1234> the extra CPU load more or less guarantees the next buffer will be late too
[20:44] <ali1234> so once you've dropped a buffer it goes into a vicious cycle of stuttering
[20:44] <MartijnVdS> until you pause
[20:44] <chrisccoulson> popey, does the CPU drop if you pause the video in youtube?
[20:44] <ali1234> that doesn't work in any application that generates an audio stream on the fly, such as any game
[20:44] <popey> no chrisccoulson
[20:45] <popey> i have lots of other tabs open too
[20:45] <popey> i want to know which ones are eating it
[20:45] <popey> about 40 tabs
[20:45] <ali1234> close tabs until it stops
[20:45] <chrisccoulson> popey, there's not really an easy way short of closing each one in turn to see if it goes away
[20:45] <chrisccoulson> yeah ;)
[20:45] <ali1234> however my guess is it will go down by about 2% for each tab
[20:45] <chrisccoulson> heh
[20:45] <MartijnVdS> who has >4 tabs?
[20:46] <chrisccoulson> it's quite easy for a site to gobble CPU ;)
[20:46] <MartijnVdS> disable javascript!
[20:46] <ali1234> disable images too
[20:46] <MartijnVdS> and plugins
[20:46] <popey> use lynx?
[20:46] <chrisccoulson> images aren't likely to use CPU
[20:46] <ali1234> actually strip all html tags is the best solution
[20:47] <popey> 48%
[20:47] <ali1234> chrisccoulson: unless they're animated gifs
[20:47] <popey> 44% system monitor
[20:47] <chrisccoulson> well, there is that i guess
[20:47] <MartijnVdS> get a better cpu ;)
[20:47] <ali1234> yes
[20:48] <popey>  9160 alan      20   0 3944m 2.3g  22m S   33 30.3   1516:58 firefox
[20:48] <MartijnVdS> 2.3g of ram?!
[20:48] <ali1234> what did i say before about 3ghz quad core being the minimum requirement for a real computer?
[20:48] <ali1234> 2.3g is low for firefox
[20:48] <MartijnVdS> 19341 martijn   20   0  913m 338m  43m S    0  4.3 124:08.80 chrome
[20:48] <MartijnVdS> and that's the largest one
[20:48] <popey> i now have 27 tabs open
[20:48] <ali1234> chrome makes loads of processes
[20:48] <chrisccoulson> 2.3g is definitely not low for firefox. that is abnormally large
[20:49] <ali1234> you probably have another 7 like that using just as much memory
[20:49] <MartijnVdS> chrisccoulson: not for firefox.
[20:49] <popey> been running for a while
[20:49] <chrisccoulson> i never see it above 600MB here and i keep > 30 tabs open
[20:49] <chrisccoulson> MartijnVdS, that is highly abnormal
[20:49] <chrisccoulson> if it's running like that, then you have a serious problem. i can assure you, it isn't normal ;)
[20:49] <MartijnVdS> chrisccoulson: exactly
[20:49] <ali1234> chrisccoulson: how much ram do you hav total?
[20:49] <MartijnVdS> chrisccoulson: firefox eats 4GB usually
[20:49] <MartijnVdS> chrisccoulson: so 2.3G is low
[20:49] <chrisccoulson> ali1234, 8gb
[20:50] <popey> not sure how to read about:memory
[20:50] <chrisccoulson> MartijnVdS, sorry, but firefox does not eat 4gb usually. if it does for you, then there is something seriously wrong with something on your setup, or with a site you're visiting
[20:51] <chrisccoulson> popey, you can copy/paste it somewhere ;)
[20:51] <ali1234> firefox has that fun switch statement that makes it waste systemram - 0.5gb or whatever
[20:51] <eztk> I agree, I'm running Firefox right now on a 2003 vintage laptop with 768mb ram on lubuntu
[20:51] <MartijnVdS> chrisccoulson: Chrome stays around 1G, so I'll just use that
[20:51] <chrisccoulson> ali1234, huh?
[20:51] <popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1039698/
[20:51] <ali1234> i kid you not. there's a switch statement that decides ow much ram it allocates on startup
[20:51] <chrisccoulson> ali1234, no there isn't
[20:52] <ali1234> if there isn't, it's been removed in the past year
[20:52] <chrisccoulson> popey, google+ !!!!
[20:52] <chrisccoulson> that doesn't surprise me at all
[20:53] <chrisccoulson> in fact, the majority of it is google sites ;)
[20:53] <MartijnVdS> So?
[20:53] <MartijnVdS> Google sites don't eat as much ram in chrome
[20:54] <MartijnVdS> ├────443.46 MB (19.04%) ── heap-unclassified
[20:54] <MartijnVdS> what's that?
[20:54] <MartijnVdS>   625.98 MB ── heap-unallocated
[20:54] <MartijnVdS> it could easily let go of that
[20:54] <popey> the thing i like about chrome is i can close it, reopen it and it re-loads all the tabs I had open
[20:54] <MartijnVdS> popey: it does?
[20:54] <popey> firefox only remembers pinned tabs
[20:54] <popey> it can
[20:55] <popey> optionally
[20:55] <ali1234> not here it doesn't
[20:55] <dogmatic69> popey: any browser does that
[20:55] <gord> firefox remembers all my tabs here
[20:55] <MartijnVdS> gord: only if you kill -9 it
[20:55] <ali1234> firefox remembers all my tabs here, even though i have disabled that option
[20:55] <dogmatic69> google chrome, chromium, ff all do it
[20:55] <popey> nope
[20:55] <popey> not true
[20:55] <gord> nope it does it constantly MartijnVdS
[20:55] <popey> i have that pastebin open
[20:55]  * popey closes firefox
[20:55] <dogmatic69> popey: I use all three every day ;)
[20:55] <ali1234> firefox *always* exits in a crash even if i do file->quit, which is why. every second time i start it, i get the "oops" display
[20:55] <popey> dogmatic69: that doesnt make it work
[20:56] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: I get that with spotify
[20:56] <chrisccoulson> MartijnVdS, heap-unclassified is memory used by objects that don't have a dedicated reporter
[20:56] <popey> joy, can't open firefox because it's still running, yet closed
[20:56] <popey> right, finally reopened
[20:56] <chrisccoulson> and no, it can't get rid of heap-unallocated, else it would have done already
[20:56] <popey> and the pastebin is _not_ opened
[20:56] <MartijnVdS> chrisccoulson: so, bug in firefox?
[20:56] <chrisccoulson> no
[20:56] <gord> could it not just be a setting somewhere popey?
[20:56] <popey> could be, which one? ☺
[20:57] <gord> no idea, i haven't touched my settings in a long time and use the sync thing to keep all my machines the same
[20:57] <popey> aha!
[20:57] <chrisccoulson> MartijnVdS,  heap-unallocated is a result of heap fragmentation, which is quite normal
[20:57] <popey> "What firefox starts: " was set to "show home page"
[20:57] <popey> changed it to "show my windows and tabs from last time"
[20:57] <popey> ta
[20:57] <popey> thats why i never used to close it
[20:58] <gord> firefox finally got the same new tab page thingy that chrome has recently. not sure i need to see 9 different reddit pages on my new tab thing
[20:58] <popey> now lets see what flash video is like
[20:58] <MartijnVdS> Chrome has a "Goats teleported" metric in its process manager
[20:58] <MartijnVdS> Wut.
[20:58] <popey> 12299 alan      20   0 1908m 832m  45m S   19 10.6   0:50.69 firefox
[20:58] <popey> no stuttering \o/
[21:00] <MartijnVdS> http://www.goat-trauma.org/
[21:01] <dogmatic69> popey: http://i.imgur.com/MHIMk.png
[21:01] <chrisccoulson> popey, i avoid memory issues by not keeping any google sites open btw ;)
[21:02] <chrisccoulson> although that probably doesn't work for everyone
[21:02] <popey> ☺
[21:03] <dogmatic69> the options are not default iirc
[21:03] <chrisccoulson> popey, i sat down with slangasek at the last platform sprint because he was having a problem with frequent disk wakeups with firefox
[21:03] <chrisccoulson> and it turned out to be google plus frequently using a specific web API which causes a disk write
[21:04] <chrisccoulson> but running it in chrome didn't use the same API
[21:04] <chrisccoulson> go figure ;)
[21:04] <livingdaylite> Hi, does anyone know the name, I forget, of a little server machine that goes fits on back of monitor?
[21:04] <popey> revo?
[21:04] <livingdaylite> maybe, let me check
[21:05] <livingdaylite> they had a couple versions of it.
[21:05] <livingdaylite> hrmm, don't think so
[21:05] <popey> what colour was it?
[21:06] <popey> or any other factors that give it away ☺
[21:06] <diddledan> there was the zotac machine
[21:06] <popey> the Acer Aspire Revo 3600 / 3660 / 3700 has a screen mount
[21:06] <livingdaylite> it was a small box , black, or silver? fit on back of monitor, if memory serves. Ran ubuntu or linux
[21:06] <popey> Viglen MPC-L?
[21:06] <livingdaylite> YES!
[21:06] <livingdaylite> thx!
[21:07] <ali1234> yeah you're better of getting a raspberry i
[21:07] <ali1234> unless you really need VGA that is
[21:07] <dogmatic69> ali1234: rasberry i? is that the new version :P
[21:08] <popey> yeah, i wouldn't get a viglen mpc-l
[21:08] <popey> well, i have two of them in a drawer, unused for about a yeare
[21:08] <livingdaylite> no? no good?
[21:08] <popey> slow
[21:08] <popey> whats the use case?
[21:08] <livingdaylite> I'm looking for a desktop again :(
[21:08] <dogmatic69> o.o
[21:09] <dogmatic69> livingdaylite: that is not a desktop replacement
[21:09] <livingdaylite> I got a new hd , third in a row, but I see that it is not the hd but the machine somehow breaking them... Installed ubuntu yesterday and quickly experiencing the same issues of freeze
[21:09] <ali1234> i don't think it cen even run ubuntu any more
[21:09] <popey> correct
[21:09] <ali1234> you have to use lucid on it
[21:09] <livingdaylite> dogmatic69: fair enough... I was hoping
[21:10] <popey> revo is fine
[21:10] <ali1234> also they are quite flaky due to overheating
[21:10] <dogmatic69> livingdaylite: you could get a full pc (all be it crappy) for like 100 bucks
[21:10] <dogmatic69> with GB's of ram, not MB's
[21:11] <ali1234> hmm software centre disappeared again
[21:11] <livingdaylite> I don't enjoy shopping for pc's especially when having been out of it for so long. Things change and move along
[21:11] <livingdaylite> I did find this which looked promising. They come without os, so that's good. http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Altera-Computers-Ltd/_i.html?_fsub=3898032018
[21:12] <popey> livingdaylite: my desktop pc is a zoostorm cheapy thing from ebuyer
[21:14] <ali1234> http://ubuntuone.com/0sUDG3xdEMsmbTjFK4Mazq
[21:14] <livingdaylite> does amd still make processors?
[21:14] <ali1234> what do?
[21:15] <ali1234> livingdaylite: seriously?
[21:15] <ali1234> yes, they still make processors
[21:16] <livingdaylite> ali1234: seriously, haven't heard much about amd's anymore.... I'm sort of up to speed with the new intel i3, i5, i7 processors (barely)
[21:16] <livingdaylite> does this look good? http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Altera-Computers-Ltd/_i.html?_fsub=3898032018
[21:16] <ali1234> which one?
[21:17] <ali1234> none of them have enough RAM for the price
[21:17] <ali1234> you want at least 8GB
[21:17] <mrgt> join #codeigniter
[21:17] <livingdaylite> that one comes with 4gb
[21:17] <livingdaylite> ali1234: can you show me something better for the same money? [£200 - £300]
[21:19] <ali1234> http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B006ZINQE8/ref=asc_df_B006ZINQE88302616?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&tag=googlecouk06-21&linkCode=asn&creative=22206&creativeASIN=B006ZINQE8
[21:19] <ali1234> also includes a hard drive, the other one doesn't
[21:22] <livingdaylite> Ithe other did have a 250gb hd
[21:23] <popey> http://www.ebuyer.com/362648-zoostorm-desktop-pc-7873-1058
[21:23] <popey> 228 quid, 8gb ram, 750gb hdd, looks good
[21:24] <livingdaylite> wow, that does...
[21:24] <livingdaylite> looks like zoostorms are popular here
[21:24] <popey> they're cheap
[21:24] <livingdaylite> good value
[21:24] <livingdaylite> yes
[21:24] <popey> i am resting my feet on one now ☺
[21:24] <livingdaylite> hehe
[21:24] <livingdaylite> loud?
[21:24] <popey> nope
[21:24] <livingdaylite> really!?
[21:25] <popey> the one i have isnt
[21:25] <popey> mine is an i7
[21:25] <popey> has no case fan, just one on the cpu
[21:25] <popey> other models may vary
[21:25] <ali1234> if you want it to be not loud and also good you will have to spend lots of money
[21:25] <livingdaylite> case same on yours? difference is only processor?
[21:25] <ali1234> but it depends how you define "loud"
[21:25] <popey> the cases all look similar
[21:26] <popey> yeah, i have a server 6 inches from my ear
[21:26] <popey> so i dont hear the desktop under my feet really
[21:26] <popey> maybe 18 inches from my ear
[21:26] <livingdaylite> ali1234: sure. beggers can't be choosers. I dream of getting a water cooling system one day... almost completely quiet
[21:27] <ali1234> random windows question: is it possible to get rid of windows ribbon and get the old menus back, in arbitrary applications?
[21:27] <livingdaylite> popey: got link to your machine?
[21:27] <livingdaylite> just curious
[21:29] <popey> Zoostorm Advanced Media PC, Core i7-2600 3.4GHz, 8GB RAM, 1TB HDD, DVDRW, Windows 7 Professional
[21:29] <popey> http://www.ebuyer.com/product/271629
[21:29] <ali1234>  8156 root      25   5  101m 7472 3788 R   99  0.0   7:19.56 https
[21:29] <livingdaylite> thx
[21:29] <popey> they dont do that specific model anymore
[21:29] <ali1234> whaaaaat? ^
[21:29] <popey> £491.40
[21:30] <popey> ali1234: apt
[21:30] <popey> ?
[21:30] <ali1234> why is my computer running https using 100% cpu?
[21:30] <popey> connecting to private ppa
[21:30] <livingdaylite> what is intel equivalent of amd A6 processor? is it like the i3/i5/i7 series?
[21:30] <popey> no idea, i have no knowledge of AMD models
[21:30] <ali1234> there are no equivalents
[21:31] <ali1234> in a sense, all AMD processors are equivalent to i7, because i3/i5 is just i7 with features disabled
[21:31] <ali1234> however, all AMD processors are slower than i7s
[21:31] <ali1234> and also about 4x cheaper
[21:32] <ali1234> oh, and no hyperthreading either
[21:32] <ali1234> though bulldozer sort of has it... basically you can't compare them at all
[21:32] <livingdaylite> you like AMD's?
[21:32] <ali1234> yes
[21:33] <ali1234> pound for pound they have about the same performance as intel, but the motherboards are about half the price
[21:33] <diddledan> hyperthreading can be a problem though if the scheduler doesn't account for the difference in speed of a real core and a hyperthreaded core
[21:33] <livingdaylite> by equivalent I mean. Well, i thought they used to compete and run paralel ''equivalent'' processors...
[21:33] <ali1234> yeah not any more
[21:33] <ali1234> these days they use incompatible extensions
[21:33] <ali1234> remember mmx?
[21:33] <livingdaylite> i see
[21:33] <livingdaylite> mmx, no
[21:34] <diddledan> mmx circa 1995 :-o
[21:35] <directhex> ali1234, there's no way to arbitrarily unribbon. there may be third party paid apps to mangle it, but YMMV
[21:35] <livingdaylite>  AMD A6 3500 Triple Core 2.1GHz vs Intel Core i3-2120
[21:36] <ali1234> directhex: i see. thanks
[21:36] <livingdaylite> £228 vs  £309
[21:36] <diddledan> the A6 is their so-called APU range, right? in which case pound-for-pound the graphics will be better in the APU than the intel
[21:36] <ali1234> maybe, but who uses integrated graphics seriously?
[21:37] <diddledan> true
[21:38] <directhex> you can crossfire an APU with a real GPU
[21:38] <ali1234> that's pretty cool
[21:38] <diddledan> I like my bulldozer 8-way unit even though it's an odd design
[21:39] <mgdm> what's an 'APU' (aside from the aeronautical sense)
[21:39] <directhex> http://www.amd.com/us/products/technologies/dual-graphics/pages/dual-graphics.aspx#3
[21:39] <directhex> mgdm, amd's current name for on-cpu gpu
[21:39] <ali1234> in this context, a CPU+GPU on one die
[21:39] <mgdm> aaaah
[21:39] <diddledan> accelerated processing unit - effectively it's a cpu+gpu
[21:40] <ali1234> in smartphone context it means application processor - kind of a locked down co-processor where the user OS runs, and isn't allowed to touch any radio hardware without going through the real CPU
[21:40] <ali1234> (this is also how raspberry pi works)
[21:44] <livingdaylite> popey: this was a review on the AMD zoostorm you linked me: http://pastebin.com/PtM0kLa2
[21:46] <ali1234> psychonauts finally installed. no icon for it in the menus though.
[21:48] <ali1234> why apport why? http://ubuntuone.com/3mpP4Cpld1AA6f9aDv9mnZ
[22:12] <livingdaylite> ali1234: http://bit.ly/Nh24A3 bulldozer processor
[22:12] <ali1234> it only has 4GB
[22:14] <livingdaylite> only? but price is pretty good... overall
[22:14] <livingdaylite> I have a few gb on my current pc I can carry over
[22:14] <ali1234> you are better off getting 8GB and dual core
[22:15] <livingdaylite> ram more important than processor?
[22:15] <ali1234> yes
[22:15] <diddledan> I want more "gigs"
[22:15] <livingdaylite> oh?!
[22:15] <directhex> gigglebytes!
[22:15] <diddledan> \o/
[22:15]  * diddledan giggles like a girly
[22:15] <livingdaylite> I thought 4gb more than enough
[22:15] <ali1234> i can set my computer to powersave mode (800mhz) and it barely make any difference
[22:15] <ali1234> 4GB however was unusably slow
[22:16] <ali1234> so i upgraded to 16
[22:16] <livingdaylite> but, like I say I have ram to carry over and make up the difference
[22:16] <diddledan> yeah, I want 16.. I'm on 8 atm in here and 6 in my old black macbook
[22:17] <livingdaylite> but, amd fx processors good
[22:17] <livingdaylite> *quad core
[22:17] <diddledan> I like mine, but I don't really know enough to dislike it - it works, that's about as advanced as I get
[22:18] <ali1234> phenom 2 is supposed to be almost as good
[22:18] <ali1234> unless you need integrated graphics
[22:18] <diddledan> mine's an octo-core :-D
[22:18] <ali1234> yeah you won't get a 8 core cpu for under £200
[22:19] <diddledan> although each pair is crippled into only having one FPU to share
[22:19] <ali1234> just for the cpu, not including everything else
[22:19] <diddledan> indeed
[22:20] <ali1234> i might get e X6
[22:23] <ali1234> AlanBell: when openmary says "thank you" it sounds a lot like something else
[22:24] <AlanBell> I could add a button for that
[22:27] <ali1234> needs a js speech synth really
[22:28] <mgdm> run festival through emscripten? :P
[22:28] <ali1234> http://www.p01.org/releases/JS1K_Speech_Synthesizer/JS1K_Speech_Synthesizer.htm
[22:29] <ali1234> makes a better drum machine than speech synthesizer
[22:34] <webpigeon> Drum mashine might me optimistic...
[22:34] <webpigeon> s/me/be/
[22:40] <AlanBell> decent speech synth is quite heavy
[22:40] <AlanBell> as this is a small vocabulary you could sample the lot
[22:40] <AlanBell> but then you don't get to parameterise it and change the pitch etc
[23:10] <diddledan> they say there's gonna be a "Linux" version of this game if they get enough funding
[23:10] <diddledan> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/935411564/hexit-point-and-click-sci-fi-adventure-game
[23:57] <gebbione> hi i m trying to set a path to an alias with a space in it
[23:58] <gebbione> and using something like alias zf='/path/here web/ZendFramework-1.11.11/bin/zf.sh'
[23:58] <gebbione> but if i run zf it says
[23:59] <gebbione>    /path/here   No such file or directory


Take a look at the cookbook in the debug section. Specifically, I'd consider changing your debug level via 'initctl log-priority debug' and keep an eye on your system log for that job.


[08:29] <jelmer> wgrant, StevenK: does either of you have access to edit the launchpad blog?
[09:10] <lifeless> jelmer: they should
[10:10] <wgrant> jelmer: I do


[13:49] <thafreak> loco in akron? there'sa lug that's active in akron, don't think there's a loco though
[13:53] <thafreak> jrgifford: i think you could do that using libvirt...
[13:54] <thafreak> wire each vm to a tty
[13:54] <thafreak> oh
[13:54] <thafreak> unless you meant gui
[13:54] <thafreak> i was thinking terminal...
[13:54] <thafreak> nm
[13:55] <Unit193> Right, LUG.
[13:57] <thafreak> I have alot of 14.04 testing to do :/
[13:57] <thafreak> I'm about to upgrade a few lucid servers...debating on 12.04, or just waiting a few weeks and going to 14.04
[13:58] <thafreak> Anyone try 14.04 on the server? Anyone try it as a libvirt/kvm host?
[13:59] <Unit193> I just finished updating a desktop to it, but not done the server yet.
[14:00] <Unit193> (Won't be doing that for a little.)
[14:00] <thafreak> i've only tried the gnome desktop install so far...
[14:00] <Unit193> Xfce here.
[14:00] <thafreak> I've been using gnome on jessie though...so
[14:01] <thafreak> i'm using xfce at work...but i dunno...things behave odd...it's probably the machine...but i dunno
[14:01] <thafreak> plus the newest evolution can natively talk to my employer's stupid exchange P.O.S.
[14:02] <thafreak> Unit193: are you one of the folks that's more straight debian...or you still pretty ubuntu loyal?
[14:04] <Unit193> Desktops are Xubuntu (or Lubuntu), I haven't touched Mainbuntu for a while and do not plan to.  I have a nice Debian server, and an Ubuntu one.  I like both, but Xubuntu tends to keep Xfce just a hair fresher, as Ubuntu does with other desktop applications I use. :/
[14:04] <thafreak> gotcha
[14:05] <thafreak> i'm liking debian testing as my dev desktops...but I just can't do it as a server...I'd be installing updates daily
[14:06] <Unit193> Debian testing makes a nice server for me, I'd likely use Unstable for the desktop.
[14:06] <thafreak> and since jessie is so close to being released, I'm leary of setting up a new wheezy server, as I'd have to upgrade it in like 2 years
[14:07] <thafreak> how often you running updateS?
[14:08] <Unit193> Every few days, but could do with less.  Reboots aren't often.
[14:08] <thafreak> seems there's a hundered every couple days for me (on the one box where I'm running testing as a server)
[14:08] <Unit193> Mmm, you must have more packages than I do.
[14:09] <thafreak> i'm running docker on it...so probably
[14:09] <thafreak> docker gets updated pretty frequently itself lately
[14:10] <thafreak> the other thing is, I was reading and the security team states that they don't always get around to releasing security fixes for testing as fast
[14:10] <thafreak> they suggest sticking with stable for prompt security fixes
[14:10] <thafreak> i dunno
[14:10] <thafreak> but I'm feeling less and less inclined to stick with ubuntu
[14:11] <thafreak> I just like the fact that I can install trusty, and then not have to worry about re-install for 5 years
[14:11] <Unit193> Eh, security updates are set to high, which means they take what, 3 days to transition?
[14:12] <Unit193> Man, can almost remove all of gstreamer0.10, only deps now are pidgin/finch, xfce4-mixer, opera, and xfburn.
[14:12] <thafreak> is gstreamer getting phased out? or you personally don't want it?
[14:13] <Unit193> gstreamer1.0 is the new kid.
[14:13] <thafreak> is that targeted for trusty?
[14:13] <Unit193> Don't think so, those won't be updated.
[14:14] <Unit193> (opera could be removed, I never use it at all, xombrero and firefox all the way.)  Also, re: samba.  One trusty box I updated hasn't worked right when it comes to sharing printers or files since, though it can browse them. :/
[14:16] <thafreak> hmmm
[14:16] <thafreak> good to know
[14:16] <thafreak> That project is coming up...
[14:16] <Unit193> Same version "works" in Debian testing though.  (randomly get a strange segfault though.)
[14:18] <thafreak> ugh...
[14:19] <thafreak> hopefully it gets fixed in trusty in the next few weels
[14:19] <thafreak> weeks
[14:19] <thafreak> perhaps I should test it myself...maybe submit a bug
[14:20] <Unit193> That'd be nice, except you'll confirm that it's somehow something here. :P
[14:20] <Unit193> (Please let me know if you do.)
[14:22] <thafreak> i was [planning on moving setting up a new windows vm at work anyway...might as well set up a trusty and testing vm too
[15:35] <jrgifford> thafreak: yeah, i could do that
[15:35] <jrgifford> i'm ok with the host being console based
[15:35] <jrgifford> i just want to be able to wire each VM to a full-screened Xserver or something.
[15:35] <jrgifford> it's a little difficult to explain. :P
[15:36] <thafreak> no i got you...
[15:36] <thafreak> just not sure how that would work...
[15:37] <thafreak> would need some kind of shim
[15:37] <thafreak> if the x server was running on the host
[15:37] <thafreak> you can do it with sdl I bet...but not sure it will perform very well
[15:38] <jrgifford> eh, i'm ok with running windows on the metal and ubuntu in a VM for now...
[15:38] <paultag> D:
[15:38] <jrgifford> it's not a great setup, but it beats spending all my time tinkering with it...
[15:39] <paultag> I don't understand what that means
[15:39] <paultag> windows requires more tinkering than Ubuntu or something
[15:40] <jrgifford> i can't run all the stupid windows software i need.
[15:40] <jrgifford> vm doesn't cut it for performance. :(
[15:41] <paultag> windows software ftl
[15:41] <jrgifford> i work for a healthcare shop. i'm stuck. :P
[15:41] <paultag> real healthcare pros read and write HL7 in sed
[15:42] <jrgifford> lol
[15:43] <paultag> WTF|O|MG|^BBQ
[15:43] <paultag> (I think that's right?)
[15:43] <paultag> I've not looked at that garbage for years
[15:44] <paultag> I think I still have the "quickstart" guide, which is a triptych the size of a desk, double-sided
[15:52] <dzho> also, real healthcare coding:  MUMPS
[15:55] <thafreak> dzho: but how do you code, tripped over a lawn mower after being shot by an arrow and landed in a scorpion pit?
[15:55] <thafreak> Cause that happens enough to require it's own code
[16:00] <dzho> thafreak: wut
[16:00] <dzho> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MUMPS
[16:00] <jenni> [ MUMPS - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ] - https://j.mp/1dKtOuV
[16:00] <dzho> it's like COBOL, but for healthcare
[16:01] <dzho> hipster NoSQL
[16:01] <dzho> you probably haven't heard of it
[16:01] <dzho> oh, I get it
[16:02] <dzho> sorry, I misread the "code for"