[00:13] <smoser> skaet, around ?
[00:34] <broder> slangasek: you need to restart gnome-terminal
[00:34] <broder> the new version of the library embeds the termcap instead of shipping it as a separate file
[00:34] <broder> rather, all of your terminals
[00:39] <skaet> smoser,  just back from dinner,  what's up?
[01:12] <kees> I am impressed that the resolvconf postinst contains a detailed error about having an immutable resolv.conf file :)
[01:15] <ajmitch> there are probably quite a few blog posts telling people to make resolv.conf immutable to stop it being clobbered :)
[01:15] <kees> indeed. it's the only way I could get n-m to behave itself.
[01:15] <stgraber> ajmitch: no, the recommendation is to simply replace the symlink by a regular file
[01:15] <kees> and it looks like resolvconf DTRT for my system, which I find very pleasing
[01:16] <stgraber> ajmitch: doing so will never convert it again to a symlink
[01:18] <ajmitch> stgraber: so that's the case now, but I've seen plenty of suggestions to use chattr to stop it being overwritten
[01:19] <stgraber> ajmitch: yeah, this check was added in resolvconf when it was being prepared for 12.04
[01:19] <stgraber> ajmitch: the "old" resolvconf wasn't doing as many checks ;)
[01:19] <ajmitch> figures :)
[01:24] <slangasek> broder: why in the world would that have changed as part of a "memory-based scrollback stream backend"?
[01:28]  * kees looks around
[01:28]  * slangasek looks at kees
[01:28] <kees> I did upload vte yesterday...
[01:28] <slangasek> why did your upload break termcap handling for running processes? :)
[01:29] <kees> that part, I don't know
[01:29] <slangasek> well, broder asserts that "the new version of the library embeds the termcap instead of shipping it as a separate file"
[01:29] <slangasek> that doesn't seem like a trivial change to make accidentally :)
[01:29] <kees> unless that was is a result of a rebuild on a dep, I didn't make that change.
[01:30] <slangasek> ok
[01:32] <ajmitch> kees: does gnome-terminal use vte or vte3?
[01:32] <kees> oh yay, did vte fork now too?
[01:32] <ajmitch> looks like the change was in vte3, also uploaded yesterday
[01:32] <slangasek> oh sigh, of course
[01:32] <slangasek> yeah, that's why the changelog made no sense :P
[01:35] <kees> hrm, does this mean I need to get the memory-backed stuff into vte3 too?
[02:34] <broder> slangasek: pitti uploaded a new upstream release that i believe is to blame
[02:34] <slangasek> broder: yeah... I was looking at the wrong generation of libvte :)
[02:35] <broder> :)
[05:23] <kees> hrm, does nothing in oneiric provide the /usr/include/sys directory?
[05:27] <micahg> kees: apparently not
[05:27] <kees> wow.
[05:27]  * micahg doesn't see it in precise either FWIW
[05:27] <kees> that's a pretty bad regression. oh well, I guess no one uses /usr/include/syscall.h that much then?
[05:27] <kees> it's there in precise.
[05:27] <kees> drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 12288 Mar 22 16:34 /usr/include/sys/
[05:28] <kees> $ ls -la /usr/include/sys/syscall.h
[05:28] <kees> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 33 Mar 21 17:43 /usr/include/sys/syscall.h -> ../x86_64-linux-gnu/sys/syscall.h
[05:28] <jalcine> Is it safe to add icons into /usr/share/icons/hicolor ?
[05:28] <jalcine> Like via a package install?
[05:28] <micahg> kees: oh, that's there in oneiric, packages.ubuntu.com seems to be weird
[05:29] <kees> oh, hrm, I think it's done differently in oneiric... the compiler has the right paths. ah well
[05:44] <slangasek> kees: /usr/include/sys is only there for compatibility if you have the gcc biarch packages installed
[06:09] <pitti> Good morning
[06:10]  * pitti gratefully extends his thanks to infinity as well :)
[06:10] <pitti> broder: what's up? yes, new vte3 embeds that now
[06:22] <broder> pitti: sorry, didn't mean to ping you. the upgrade dropping the file caused problems for running gnome-terminal (if you opened a new terminal, which would have been in the old process)
[06:23] <pitti> broder: oh, I see; so just a temporary glitch
[06:24] <broder> yeah
[06:24] <vibhav>
[06:25] <vibhav> oops
[06:31] <pitti> slangasek: acked bug 962124 FTR
[06:40] <slangasek> pitti: great, thanks :)
[07:47] <dholbach> good morning
[07:48] <pitti> hey dholbach
[07:48] <dholbach> hey pitti
[09:13] <shadeslayer> pitti: re bug 858970 : it's already fixed in precise ( the fix was incorporated into 6.1.4 )
[09:14] <shadeslayer> the problem is specific to version 6.1.3
[09:35] <pitti> shadeslayer: ah, can you please close the precise task then?
[09:35] <pitti> shadeslayer: that SRU was a bit confusing, it refers to two bugs, and the other looks like a synthetic meta-bug
[09:36] <shadeslayer> pitti: done, yeah, I thought that you had to open SRU bugs seprately to get packages SRU'd ... will take care next time :)
[09:37] <pitti> shadeslayer: no, please don't do that, it's confusing and actually detrimental to getting testing feedback
[09:37] <pitti> shadeslayer: the SRU policy page mentions this, too
[09:37] <pitti> shadeslayer: ok, thanks; will have another look at it
[09:37] <shadeslayer> thanks! sorry for the confusion
[09:40] <pitti> shadeslayer: accepted now, thanks
[09:40] <shadeslayer> \o/
[11:04] <dholbach> smoser, happy birthday!
[11:13] <seb128> ev, hey, those are the retracers dups from this week, most of the top 10 is whoopsie: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/896289/
[11:13] <seb128> ev, if you could look at the ones listed there
[11:14] <ev> seb128: indeed, I'm on it. I had a chat with njpatel about it this morning and have a number of things to try an uncover the underlying memory corruption issue with.
[11:14] <seb128> ev, cool
[11:14] <seb128> ev, valgrind is your friend I would say ;-)
[11:15] <seb128> mvo, hey, I've assigned bug #938116 to you it's a quite frequent one as well
[11:15] <ev> indeed, I've been using it extensively, but it hasn't turned up the corruption on my local system.
[11:15] <ev> I've also worked with mudflap a bit, but it looks like you need to compile the world with it in order to not get a ton of false positives
[11:15] <mvo> seb128: its a segfault? in the python code?
[11:16] <mvo> seb128: oh, ok
[11:16] <seb128> mvo, no, in libapt-pkg.so.4.12
[11:16] <mvo> ta
[11:17] <seb128> mvo, thank *you* ;-)
[11:23] <hrw> hi
[11:23] <hrw> bug 962997 - can someone take a look?
[11:25] <MacSlow> seb128, didrocks: I'm just about to merge an approved fix for LP: #716458 to notify-osd and will do a release today too... so we get fixes for average bg-color and the multi-monitor issues.
[11:26] <MacSlow> seb128, didrocks: I hope you're ok with those for a new release.
[11:26] <seb128> MacSlow, great
[11:26] <seb128> MacSlow, yes
[11:37] <Laney> cjwatson: Just looking at bug #948848, what Conflicts are you proposing to add? Is it adding mono-gac << fixed-version to perl-base to ensure that the new version of mono-gac is unpacked early enough?
[12:20] <smoser> dholbach, thanks.
[12:31] <semiosis> SpamapS: ping?
[12:32] <alkisg> Hi mvo, sorry for the ping, ogra told me it'd be a good idea to notify you about https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-center/+bug/782953
[12:33] <alkisg> I just verified it, removed the cron jobs and software-center isn't aware of the new sources, even after running apt-get update, 1 hour later...
[12:37] <cjwatson> Laney: mono-gac/perl - correct, we need the new mono-gac to be at least unpacked before perl-base is unpacked so that when /usr/share/cli-common/runtimes.d/mono is invoked it isn't trying to use a Perl module that isn't currently in the configured state - this is the only way I know of to deal with this condition reliably
[12:40] <Laney> cjwatson: OK, got it. It seems odd that this situation arises; is using perl modules from pre* maintianer scripts just a bad idea?
[12:41] <Laney> i.e. what if we had actually been making use of that module?
[12:45] <cjwatson> Laney: well, you aren't pre-depending on perl, so you aren't entitled to expect perl to be configured, only perl-base, and File::Basename isn't in perl-base
[12:46] <cjwatson> Laney: but quite a few situations (config, sometimes prerm, postrm, triggers, basically anything that's asynchronous with respect to package state) can really only safely use Essential packages
[12:46] <cjwatson> regardless of (pre-)dependencies
[12:46] <cjwatson> hooks provided for use by other packages' maintainer scripts are really best advised to stick to Essential, IMO
[12:47] <Daviey> cjwatson: Ubuntu doesn't respect Essential, does it?
[12:49] <cjwatson> Daviey: ??!
[12:49] <Daviey> cjwatson: A package declaring itself essential, isn't necessarily published as Essential, is itt?
[12:49] <Laney> got it, the discussion about skew between perl-base and perl-modules skewed my mind also
[12:49] <cjwatson> Daviey: not true at all
[12:50] <cjwatson> Daviey: Priority and Section are overridden (also true in Debian); Essential is absolutely not
[12:53] <hrw> ok, another ftcbfs fixed - bug 963047
[13:04] <mvo> alkisg: cool, thanks
[13:05] <alkisg> You're welcome, if you could also have a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dbconfig-common/+bug/962393 I'd appreciate it :)
[13:05] <alkisg> "...Maybe the problem is that software-center spawns debconf-communicate with the user id instead of as root"
[13:12] <smoser> cjwatson, around ?
[13:12] <smoser> i have a more clear question for you now regarding my grub issue. then i can dig some more,.
[13:13] <smoser> when we build the image files, we generally do so for a "full disk image" (with partition table).
[13:13] <smoser> where i was failing was where i was then trying to use the core.img file from inside that image when there was no partition table on the disk.
[13:14] <smoser> does that have any chance of working?
[13:17] <cjwatson> I think in principle it ought to but you're into much less well-tested code paths
[13:17] <cjwatson> you *should* be able to treat any device, disk or partition, as a filesystem
[13:45] <smoser> cjwatson, so if core.img is loaded
[13:45] <smoser> how does it know where modules and things are ?
[13:46] <cjwatson> smoser: it has a prefix baked into it
[13:46] <smoser> what does the prefix look like ?
[13:46] <smoser> (and when does it get baked in?)
[13:47] <cjwatson> depends on the platform; you can set it using the -p option to grub-mkimage, or sometimes grub-setup will add it depending on where you're installing the image to
[13:47] <cjwatson> the prefix is a full GRUB file name, as in http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/manual/grub.html#File-name-syntax - it should probably typically include a device
[13:47] <cjwatson> it ought to point to an equivalent of /boot/grub
[13:48] <smoser> cjwatson, well, i'm pretty sure my core.img gets built during dpkg install of a debootstrap
[13:48] <cjwatson> I'm pretty sure it doesn't
[13:48] <cjwatson> GRUB isn't in the base system
[13:48] <smoser> (then i'm pretty sure you're right)
[13:48] <smoser> oh
[13:48] <smoser> not debootstrap, sorry.
[13:48] <smoser> but installation in a similar manner. ie, in a chroot on a real disk that has no relavance to the end goal
[13:49] <cjwatson> so depends how (if) grub-install gets invoked within that environment, really.  you may have to call it by hand.
[13:49] <cjwatson> (or grub-mkimage / grub-setup manually, depending)
[13:49] <smoser> and later, we fake grub-probe and call grub-install.
[13:50] <cjwatson> use 'grub-install --debug' and see which mkimage/setup commands it's actually calling
[13:50] <smoser> but i didn't think grub-install touched core.img.
[13:50] <cjwatson> that's incorrect
[13:51] <cjwatson> it generates a new one
[13:51] <smoser> ah.
[13:51] <smoser> but not if --grub-setup=/bin/true
[13:52] <smoser> so that then at least makes sense to me. (i think).
[13:52] <cjwatson> why not if --grub-setup=/bin/true?  it's the grub-mkimage call that generates the core.img.
[13:52] <cjwatson> But certainly if you have --grub-setup=/bin/true it won't install it anywhere, and it's possible that the default prefix will be wrong
[13:53] <smoser> well, mhm..
[13:53] <smoser> i think i'm not explaining myself.
[13:53] <smoser> i have 1 core.img
[13:53] <smoser> and i was hoping that I could grub multiboot load that core.img
[13:53] <cjwatson> What I mean is that --grub-setup=/bin/true does not stop grub-install from generating a core.img.
[13:54] <smoser> but you're saying that that core.img has a prefix of some sort baked in.
[13:55] <smoser> so either that path is (hd0)/boot/grub/grub.cfg or (hd1,7)/boot/grub/grub.cfg
[13:56] <smoser> but i was hoping that the same core.img would work when it's view of the world was *either* (hd0,1)/boot/grub or (hd0)/boot/grub
[13:56] <cjwatson> Well, it can sometimes be device-independent as well, it depends on a few factors.  Can I go and write the foundations weekly report and then I'll get back to you?
[13:56] <cjwatson> 'cos I'm overdue.
[13:56] <smoser> no, cjwatson, you must do my bidding NOW
[13:56] <smoser> oh wait,
[13:56] <smoser> no, you can do that firts
[13:56] <smoser> thank you for your help.
[14:08] <smoser> cjwatson, when you do return, heres maybe a bit cleaner description
[14:08] <smoser> http://paste.ubuntu.com/896460/
[14:26] <dupondje> Did the ABI get bumped of openssl yesterday?
[14:27] <cjwatson> yes, though backward-compatibly
[14:29] <dupondje> Weird, cause freerdp nla auth is broken now. Tried a rebuild of the package, without changes, and it works ...
[14:33] <cjwatson> dupondje: is the source package 'freerdp'?
[14:34] <dupondje> Yes
[14:34] <cjwatson> It doesn't seem to do anything deeply horrible.  Let me poke around a bit ...
[14:34] <cjwatson> How do I reproduce the problem?
[14:35] <cjwatson> (Note, I don't have Windows)
[14:35] <dupondje> xfreerdp --sec nla <randomwindowsserver>
[14:35] <dupondje> :D
[14:35] <dupondje> but i'm doing some tests atm
[14:35] <cjwatson> I'll probably want to compare the binaries
[14:37] <cjwatson> smoser: I'll have a look at this image.  I probably need to meditate on it a bit
[14:37] <smoser> ok. thanks.
[14:37] <cjwatson> (ETA >1h for the download though)
[14:37] <smoser> cjwatson, you have canonistack credentials?
[14:37] <cjwatson> not quite sure why I'm only getting 50kb/s, that's even worse than usual
[14:37] <smoser> there, download is at 40M/s
[14:37] <Darxus> I just let update-manager do an automated upgrade, on Precise.  It failed, and now apt-get can't fix it:
[14:37] <Darxus> dpkg: error processing libfreetype6 (--configure): libfreetype6:amd64 2.4.4-2ubuntu1.2 cannot be configured because libfreetype6:i386 is in a different version (2.4.4-2ubuntu1.1)
[14:37] <cjwatson> I want it locally
[14:38] <cjwatson> it's worth waiting a while for downloads when it lets me work more quickly interactively once it's down
[14:38] <smoser> well, i can't help you there. but i can set up an instance for you if you'd like.
[14:38] <cjwatson> nah, no particular need I think
[14:38] <cjwatson> oh, heh, I have an sbuild-update running, that would explain it
[14:41] <cjwatson> dupondje: could you file a bug about this in the meantime?
[14:42] <dupondje> i'll do after some more tests :)
[14:42] <Darxus> Sorry, that was on Oneric that multiarch just broke hard.
[14:52] <dupondje> cjwatson: i'm unable to reproduce it now on another system.
[14:52] <dupondje> weird
[15:07] <jdstrand> pitti: hi! whenever you had a spare moment, would you mind deNEWing hamster-indicator (bug #686062)? I sponsored it, so I can't and it seems you are sympathetic to its inclusion :)
[15:08] <jdstrand> s/you had/you have/
[15:08] <jdstrand> pitti: it isn't urgent or anything
[15:29] <cjwatson> pitti: do you agree that I should add LC_IDENTIFICATION to Gunnar's list in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/926207/comments/7 ?
[15:29] <cjwatson> (I went through the list in glibc)
[15:30] <pitti> cjwatson: hm, that's a good question -- there is no obvious "right" locale when you are using two at the same time
[15:30] <pitti> cjwatson: so if we want to be strict about the "preserve current behaviour", we'd need to
[15:30] <pitti> as we currently don't
[15:31] <cjwatson> as I read Gunnar's proposal it's just to flip the set round, so I think he just missed one
[15:32] <pitti> it feels a bit weird to set it explicitly, but I don't think it matters much either way
[15:32] <pitti> we can update accountsservice to do that as well
[15:32] <cjwatson> yes, it does, but meh, my gut feel has been overruled by fiat I think
[15:32] <cjwatson> and I don't care that much
[15:33] <jdstrand> mterry: hey. thanks for the MIR reviews. I wanted to mention to you that my focus for the last couple weeks has been almost entirely security reviews for MIRs, and it continues to be
[15:34] <mterry> jdstrand, :)  thanks
[15:56] <slangasek> SpamapS: I notice that you set the severity on bug #936667; do you care about giving ppa:jamesodhunt/upstart-testing a spin before we upload to the archive?
[16:17] <tkamppeter> infinity, hi
[16:22] <SpamapS> slangasek: I have that PPA enabled, but have not rebooted yet.. let me do that now.
[16:47] <jdstrand> tkamppeter: is is normal for me to now have 20 '/usr/lib/cups/notifier/dbus dbus://' processes?
[16:47] <jdstrand> tkamppeter: hi btw :)
[16:52] <slangasek> SpamapS: did you survive? :)
[16:53] <SpamapS> slangasek: still closing things down to be ready to reboot...
[16:53] <SpamapS> slangasek: < 5 min
[16:53] <slangasek> oh man
[16:53] <slangasek> :)
[16:53] <slangasek> here, let me throw you a critical bug in gnome-session to help speed things up
[16:56] <dholbach> jdstrand, I just reopened https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-printers/+bug/959195
[16:56] <jdstrand> dholbach: ah, thanks :)
[16:56] <dholbach> jdstrand, ha! I even have more processes than you :)
[16:56] <jdstrand> hehe
[16:56] <jdstrand> quite a few more! :)
[16:57] <SpamapS> slangasek: looks good
[16:58] <SpamapS> slangasek: have we tried a cloud image yet?
[16:58] <SpamapS> slangasek: IIRC, cloud-init was a victim of the early job logging problems
[16:58] <slangasek> SpamapS: I don't know that anyone has; could you swing that as well?
[16:58] <SpamapS> slangasek: yes doing so now
[17:09] <tkamppeter> jdstrand, this is a known bug. It is fixed already. Do all updates and after that stop CUPS, "rm -r /etc/cups/subscriptions.conf /var/cache/cups/*", start CUPS again and the processes should go away.
[17:09] <jdstrand> tkamppeter: actually, so dholbach's comment, above ^
[17:09] <jdstrand> s/so/see/
[17:12] <jdstrand> tkamppeter: I did what you suggested and it didn't work
[17:14] <jdstrand> I commented in the bug
[17:16] <larsu> jdstrand, dholbach, hi
[17:16] <tkamppeter> jdstrand, dholbach, larsu will come up here and help you.
[17:16] <dholbach> I need to rush out now
[17:16] <dholbach> but I'm subscribed to the bug report and can do further testing if necessary
[17:17] <larsu> dholbach, cool, thanks
[17:17] <dholbach> see you later :)
[17:17] <tkamppeter> infinity, around?
[17:18] <infinity> tkamppeter: Yep.
[17:19] <larsu> jdstrand, argh, you're right, the commands I posted on that bug don't seem to work
[17:19] <SpamapS> slangasek: cloud instance boots fine w/ 1.5
[17:19] <slangasek> SpamapS: woot
[17:19] <SpamapS> slangasek: logging working fine too
[17:19] <htorque> larsu: they worked for me, what did i do wrong? :)
[17:19] <tkamppeter> infinity, it is about the p11-kit crash, bug 911436. It breaks CUPS and so very many people get Apport pop-ups when updating and there is CUPS or some printing package in the update, and these users probably also cannot print.
[17:20] <larsu> htorque, I don't know. They worked for me yesterday but not today
[17:20]  * larsu wonders where CUPS could cache subscriptions
[17:20] <SpamapS> slangasek: does upstart automatically re-open log files that get renamed?
[17:20] <tkamppeter> infinity, therefore I have raised the bug to "Critical" and added the rls-p-tracking tag. It has > 200 duplicates.
[17:20] <slangasek> SpamapS: dunno, ICMP REDIRECT jodh
[17:20] <SpamapS> jodh: does upstart automatically re-open log files that get renamed?
[17:21]  * SpamapS obeys the RFCs
[17:21] <infinity> tkamppeter: I'm aware.  Looking into it.
[17:21] <slangasek> tkamppeter: actually, I added the rls-p-tracking tag... please note that you shouldn't set this tag for other teams :)
[17:21] <jodh> SpamapS: yes.
[17:22] <SpamapS> jodh: *cool*
[17:22] <htorque> larsu: iirc, there was a second file like /etc/cups/subscriptions.0 - i removed that too.
[17:22] <SpamapS> jodh: I'm really excited about having job logging in upstart.. such a tiny thing but such a big win. :)
[17:23] <tkamppeter> larsu, htorque, jdstrand, I had to stop cups, then to remove /etc/cups/subscriptions.conf and /var/cache/cups/* and /var/cache/cup[s/rss/*. After that I have restarted cups.
[17:23] <larsu> htorque, nice, you're right. I wonder where that comes from (cups docs don't say anything about that)
[17:23] <jodh> SpamapS: tiny, but we've seen a few interesting corner cases ;)
[17:24] <SpamapS> jodh: whenever I hear "corner case" I think of The Blair Witch Project and "Mike" standing in the corner. ;)
[17:26] <slangasek> lool: hmph, mawk uploaded but no bug forwarded to Debian?  I had to wait for Ron to report it ;)
[17:27] <lool> slangasek: My changelog mentions a commit from collab-maint/mawk.git, isn't that from Debian?
[17:27] <slangasek> oh, ffs
[17:27] <slangasek> lool: that's not the package's repo, no
[17:28] <slangasek> lool: oh, also I was checking the wrong version of the package
[17:28] <larsu> jdstrand, please try again with the updated instructions I just posted
[17:28] <larsu> tkamppeter, ^^
[17:29] <lool> slangasek: I remember a weird situation around its Debian maintenance back then, but it's all fuzzy memories; I'm happy to forward remaining bits if any
[17:29] <slangasek> lool: apparently it's bryceh I need to be glaring at
[17:29] <lool> slangasek: this is http://paste.debian.net/160783/ e2e6d7ad490a7b19c562af5874a08a4168382b57
[17:29] <bryceh> slangasek, ?
[17:29] <slangasek> lool: yeah, don't worry about it, it's 1.3.3-16ubuntu3 I was referring to, I checked the sig on the wrong source package and came up with your name
[17:29] <tkamppeter> larsu, htorque, jdstrand, larsu's comment #4 should remove all these. Seems that cups has complex mechanisms to protect subscriptions against data loss.
[17:29] <slangasek> bryceh: patch not forwarded to Debian (where I'm the maintainer)
[17:30] <lool> Ok; /me paints himself with invisible paint
[17:31] <bryceh> slangasek, mind narrowing it down?
[17:31] <slangasek> bryceh: mawk
[17:31] <slangasek> LP: #955791
[17:32] <bryceh> slangasek, ah, the reporter claimed it to be fixed upstream, so I didn't think forwarding would be needed.
[17:32]  * slangasek snorts
[17:32] <slangasek> ok
[17:32] <bryceh> slangasek, also our mawk is way behind upstream
[17:32] <tkamppeter> larsu, should it not be "sudo rm -r /var/cache/cups/*", the empty /var/cache/cups/ directory is probably still needed by CUPS. Or will CUPS regenerate it?
[17:32] <slangasek> yeah, it's not "fixed upstream" because mawk doesn't have an upstream
[17:32] <larsu> tkamppeter, it regenerated it
[17:32] <slangasek> it has Thomas Dickey as a self-appointed upstream who throws tarballs over the fence
[17:32] <bryceh> slangasek, particularly, it has hardly changed since lucid (which is why the sru was so simple!)
[17:32] <slangasek> bryceh: but ok, understandable why you didn't forward in this case
[17:33] <tkamppeter> infinity, thanks.
[17:34] <bryceh> slangasek, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mawk/+bug/955791/comments/3
[17:34] <slangasek> bryceh: right, thanks :)
[17:34] <tkamppeter> infinity, a side effect is that some of the CUPS installation problems not caused by p11-kit got overlooked under the flooding.
[17:34] <semiosis> SpamapS: ping
[17:38] <SpamapS> semiosis: pong, sup?
[17:39] <semiosis> SpamapS: got a question re: glusterfs in precise... upstream just did a new patch release, 3.2.5 -> 3.2.6, and i'd like to put in a sync request for precise, but also want to be sure that the new version gets my upstart job merged in
[17:40] <semiosis> SpamapS: question is, do i need to do anything special beyond just filing a sync request bug?
[17:42] <SpamapS> semiosis: thats not a sync, thats a merge. :)
[17:43] <semiosis> true
[17:43] <semiosis> so my answer is file a merge bug then :)
[17:44] <SpamapS> semiosis: should be a pretty easy merge
[17:44] <semiosis> we did it once already for 3.2.5-1
[17:44] <SpamapS> semiosis: you should be able to submit your upstart job to debian maintainers for inclusion, then they can stay in sync
[17:45] <semiosis> i actually am co-maintainer of the debian package :)
[17:45] <SpamapS> semiosis: Ah, then you should be able to just put it in there!
[17:45] <semiosis> problem was (and i'm not 100% sure about this) that in my tests including the upstart job broke the package on debian
[17:45] <SpamapS> slangasek: dh_installinit should be fixed for shipping an upstart and an init file in Debian now, right?
[17:46] <semiosis> i'll go back and do the tests again
[17:46] <slangasek> SpamapS: not yet
[17:46] <SpamapS> oh
[17:46] <SpamapS> darn
[17:46] <semiosis> :D
[17:46] <semiosis> yeah...
[17:46] <semiosis> you can def. put the upstart job in the package, problems happen when you try to use that package
[17:46] <semiosis> iirc
[17:48] <semiosis> oh and another thing, even if upstart jobs were generally compatible with debian... this one in particular is specific to mountall, and it depends on wait-for-state, which afaik are ubuntu-specific additions to upstart
[17:48] <semiosis> is that right?
[17:49] <slangasek> semiosis: that's largely beside the point, as both mountall and wait-for-state will be landed in Debian as part of the process of making upstart usable for Debian packages
[17:49] <semiosis> slangasek: thats great to hear!  i hoped so
[17:50]  * semiosis looks forward to that day
[17:52] <semiosis> thanks SpamapS & slangasek for the info
[17:52] <SpamapS> semiosis: anyway, how about putting it in the package and doing some conditional logic to move it into place only when building for Ubuntu?
[17:54] <semiosis> SpamapS: thats a great idea, i never thought of that.  still pretty new to debian packaging.  i'll start working on that... could you point me toward any relevant docs/examples?  a package which does that would be a huge help, I like looking at source
[17:55] <semiosis> gotta go afk, bbiab.  thanks again!
[18:17] <PaoloRotolo> Hi all!
[18:52] <danel> anyone use this?
[18:52] <danel> If I'm writing helloworld.c
[18:52] <danel> and the main input argument is
[18:52] <danel> #include <stdio.h>
[18:52] <danel>    main()
[18:52] <danel>    {
[18:52] <danel>      printf( "Hello, world" );
[18:52] <danel>    }
[18:53] <danel> I open it with ./helloworld.c
[18:53] <danel> but compile it... with gcc -o helloworld.c?
[18:53] <jtaylor> this is the wrong channel for these questions, but its gcc helloworld.c -o helloworld; ./helloworld
[18:53] <danel> don't I need another tag for the output file name, in which case ./helloworld.c wouldn't open the file, since the input file is helloworld.c
[18:54] <danel> ok
[20:14] <Daviey> Pop Quiz:  If i really want postgres running during the installer, is running invoke-rc.d --force postgres start, evil.. from a postinst of a different package, that needs to use it?
[20:14] <Daviey> obv. ignoring policy.d
[20:15] <broder> yes. case in point: chroots. i never, ever, ever want any services running in one of my chroot, and a package shouldn't be able to override that want
[20:17] <azeem_> Daviey: why do you need to have it running?
[20:23] <slangasek> Daviey: if you insist on having it running, why call invoke-rc.d --force instead of calling the init script directly?
[20:24] <slangasek> though I think azeem_'s question may be the more fundamental one :)
[20:26] <Daviey> slangasek: I need to populate a database at d-i install time.
[20:26]  * slangasek nods
[20:27] <Daviey> slangasek: well sure, i thought that slightly cleaner than using /etc/init.d/foo start
[20:27] <slangasek> I guess there's no offline way to do that for postgres without using the db server?
[20:27] <Daviey> slangasek: NAFAIK
[20:28] <slangasek> yeah; I think calling the init script directly is cleaner than using --force on an interface that exists solely to give admins control over whether services are started
[20:28] <slangasek> (I'm surprised --force even exists, and wonder whose hare-brained idea that was)
[20:28] <Daviey> slangasek: the only other thing would be to have a pre-start job that checks some tmp file, to see if it is 'FIRST_RUN', and populdate at application start time.
[20:31] <Daviey> not sure i agree.. but i won't argue :)
[20:34] <Daviey> slangasek: --force implies retry, right?
[20:34] <Daviey> slangasek: do you think --force is /wrong/ to use, or just a taste thing?
[20:35] <slangasek> Daviey: --force is not part of the interface specified in Debian policy, so I think it's a) pointless and b) more likely to be rendered buggy in the future
[20:38] <Daviey> slangasek: Okay, thanks.. will use init.d.. thanks :)
[20:43] <azeem_> Daviey: interesting, what's the use case?  Can't you query a remote pgsql server?
[20:47] <Daviey> azeem_: It' an all in one, application needs a database.
[20:47] <Daviey> slangasek: is policy-rc.d return 101, the only metric that the user is in d-i?
[20:48] <slangasek> Daviey: I wouldn't say that it's an indicator at all, that's the same policy all of my chroots use :)
[20:49] <slangasek> I'm not sure what a better indicator would be
[20:49] <Daviey> slangasek: well, when i say metric.. i mean the closest to an indicator i have :(
[20:50] <slangasek> why do you need to check if it's really d-i?
[20:50] <slangasek> in broad strokes, what's the outcome you want here?  "Ensure postgres is always started, do our load, and if we started postgres, stop it again"?
[20:50] <Daviey> slangasek: I'd like to have slightly different behaviour on the cd, that i would if you apt-get'd.
[20:51] <slangasek> ah
[20:51] <slangasek> different how / why?
[20:51] <azeem_> can't you do that with debconf preseeding
[20:52] <Daviey> slangasek: dbcommon-config option to setup database.. i'd like to hide from the cd (as the option selected *owns* the box, and the choice is to run the database locally).. if you apt-get'd, i'd like to offer the user the choice.
[20:52] <Daviey> slangasek: yeah, i think preseeding is the best way
[20:52] <slangasek> yeah, I think so
[20:52] <Daviey> $package/dbconfig-true = True
[20:53] <Daviey> Okay, thanks for your help slangasek
[20:53] <slangasek> sure
[21:18] <shnatsel> I'm not sure if this is the proper place to ask this, but what writes /etc/adduser.conf ? I need to change DSHELL there and I can't find the relevant package to patch
[21:22] <dobey> shnatsel: dpkg -S $file tells you which packages own $file
[21:22] <shnatsel> dobey: it says none own it, that's the problem
[21:23] <shnatsel> dobey: I've also checked casper, just to be sure, but nothing there either
[21:24] <dobey> adduser: /usr/share/adduser/adduser.conf
[21:24] <dobey> shnatsel: /etc/adduser.conf seems to be old and no longer used
[21:25] <dobey> at least, i'm pretty sure i've upgraded my system since aug 2009
[21:25] <dobey> which is when that file was created
[21:25] <slangasek> no
[21:25] <dobey> or last modified rather
[21:25] <slangasek> /etc/adduser.conf is the config file which is created at install time by the adduser package, using /usr/share/adduser/adduser.conf as a template
[21:26] <slangasek> standard non-conffile handling
[21:26] <shnatsel> slangasek: oh, thanks a lot!
[21:26] <dobey> slangasek: then why does mine have a date of Aug 22 2009 on it?
[21:27] <shnatsel> dobey: "at install time"
[21:27] <shnatsel> dobey: and you've probably upgraded
[21:28] <shnatsel> I've just realized I should have grepped $(dpkg -L adduser) :/
[21:28] <shnatsel> thanks for your help!
[21:29] <slangasek> dobey: because config files for something like adduser don't change very often :)
[21:29] <slangasek> (in part because it's a pain to do it correctly)
[21:29] <dobey> slangasek: but i'd expect the dates on the two files to at least match (as in it just wrote the file out again from the updated package)
[21:30] <slangasek> not at all
[21:30] <slangasek> it's a *config* file; overwriting it on upgrade is exactly the wrong thing to do
[21:30] <dobey> except for all those times when i get debconf asking me to keep, replace, or merge the changes?
[21:31] <slangasek> I mean overwriting it silently is the wrong thing to do
[21:31] <slangasek> and there haven't been any changes upstream to this file lately
[21:32] <dobey> unless it's unchanged, in which case it's fine. but yeah, i agree it's hard to do right
[21:47] <SpamapS> hmm.. this is odd
[21:47] <SpamapS> I have a very minimal rules file..
[21:48] <SpamapS> with a package that has a single binary package..
[21:48] <SpamapS> and yet, dh_install is looking for files in debian/tmp ..
[21:48] <SpamapS> any ideas?
[21:48] <SpamapS> the files end up in debian/$packagename already because there is a single one
[21:49] <SpamapS> Ahh
[21:49] <SpamapS> because I have .install files
[21:49] <SpamapS> which I don't need anymore
[22:10] <bdmurray> slangasek: I'm looking at bug 274421 and while the gnome bug that would set the proxy to http://:8080 is fixed I wonder if that is enough
[22:18] <slangasek> bdmurray: I don't think individual packages should be expected to work around broken system proxy settings
[22:19] <bdmurray> slangasek: sure, I was thinking about fixing stored entries in debconf
[22:19] <slangasek> oh, is that getting set in debconf?
[22:20] <slangasek> bdmurray: feel free to mark it as a duplicate of bug #876298 then
[22:20] <bdmurray> comments 34 and 35 seem to indicate that
[22:20] <slangasek> ... although maybe that would be bad for LP :)
[22:20] <bdmurray> yeah, I think I'll close menting the proxy configuration tool changes
[22:21] <bdmurray> mentioning even
[22:25] <bdmurray> slangasek: also looking at bug 541595 no recent versions of apt seem to be implicated
[22:47] <jhojho> Sarvatt: the numbers do change quite a bit. look again (carefully)
[22:50] <Sarvatt> jhojho: i meant between 1.0.0 and 1.0.1 where the kernel didnt change when i said that, sorry
[22:50] <Sarvatt> http://paste.ubuntu.com/897098/
[22:51] <Sarvatt> aes hardly changes here so i attributed it to an outside source like it going through the kernel using CPU hardware acceleration for it, i dont know if thats actually the case :)
[22:52] <Sarvatt> was just a guess
[22:52] <jhojho> that's aesni.  not true here.
[22:52] <Sarvatt> i can't boot a lucid kernel on this machine to try it
[22:52] <jhojho> my processor does not have aesni
[22:53] <jhojho> so the use case of 64bit with no aesni is affected.
[22:53] <jhojho> and since the c version is faster, i would rather ubuntu use that instead.
[22:54] <jhojho> im fine with the asm version being slower for resistance to timing attacks but my point then is to just use the c version.


[01:20] <theonlyDK> rawr
[01:53] <valorie> rawr to you to!
[01:53] <valorie> too
[02:00] <theonlyDK> is there any way to revert to 10.10 from 11.4
[02:00] <theonlyDK> it seems some of the packages aren't quite stable yet
[02:14] <valorie> sure, reinstall
[02:15] <valorie> or go to #ubuntu+1 for experts
[02:15]  * valorie is still in 10.10 kubuntu, but I do have KDE 4.6rc1
[02:15] <valorie> so I'm sorta half-way there
[02:15] <valorie> dunno how they do that in gnomieland
[03:29] <theonlyDK> whats the difference between xubuntu/kubuntu and regular ubuntu anywayz
[03:30] <valorie> desktop
[03:30] <valorie> Kubuntu uses KDE, which is my preference
[03:30] <valorie> Ubuntu uses Gnome, which I don't like
[03:31] <valorie> Xubuntu uses XFCE, I believe
[03:31] <valorie> etc.
[03:35] <theonlyDK> ahh
[03:39] <valorie> just figuring all this stuff out, myself
[03:39] <valorie> I just heard of a new thing that a friend of mine installed: PeppermintOS
[03:40] <valorie> it's actually based on 10.04 LTS, and is pretty slick
[03:40] <valorie> re-themed, and linked up to some company's cloud services
[03:40] <valorie> although stuff is available for free, if you keep digging
[03:41] <valorie> sec
[05:46] <theonlyDK> hmmm i've heard of peppermint...just bits and pieces though.
[05:47] <valorie> looks slick
[05:48] <valorie> would irritate me to be behind their little walls
[05:48] <valorie> but this is a guy migrating from windows
[05:48] <althara> Hi valorie *waves*
[05:48] <valorie> maybe he likes the safety
[05:48] <valorie> {{{{{{{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}}}}}}} and happy new year, althara!
[05:48] <althara> happy new year to you too
[05:48] <valorie> thanks!
[05:49] <valorie> so far, so good
[05:49] <valorie> google code-in is almost over
[05:49] <valorie> my handbook is almost out the door
[05:49] <valorie> etc.
[05:49] <valorie> feels GOOD
[05:49] <althara> You wouldn't happen to be going to gslug tomorrow, would you? *nudge nudge*
[05:49] <althara> awesome
[05:49] <althara> :)
[05:49] <valorie> sorry, now
[05:49] <valorie> no
[05:49] <valorie> I mean
[05:49] <valorie> one of these months, I promise I will
[05:50] <valorie> why in hell do they have them on Saturday morning?
[05:50] <althara> noon to 4
[05:50] <valorie> ::groan::
[05:50] <theonlyDK> most people work mon-fri...
[05:50] <althara> I have no idea really
[05:50] <althara> I like that it's not a week night
[05:50] <valorie> that means leaving here by 10:30
[05:50] <althara> those are super hard on me with a little
[05:50] <althara> one
[05:50] <valorie> and I don't want to get up until then
[05:50] <valorie> lol
[05:50] <althara> heh
[05:51] <althara> blame salt :P
[05:51] <theonlyDK> whats gslug?
[05:51] <valorie> oh, I do
[05:51] <valorie> lol
[05:51] <althara> greater seattle linux user group
[05:51] <valorie> greater seattle linux
[05:52] <theonlyDK> oh
[05:52] <valorie> the slug part is just coincidental
[05:52] <althara> meetings are the second Saturday of the month
[05:52] <valorie> :-)
[05:52] <althara> usually at google fremont
[05:52] <althara> valorie: don't feel bad. I've only gone maybe twice in the last year
[05:53] <valorie> if I lived closer, I would def. attend more
[05:54] <theonlyDK> wow thats pretty close  to where im at
[05:54] <althara> http://www.gslug.org/wiki/index.php/Meeting_2011-01-08
[05:55] <althara> MJEvans is bringing cake!
[05:55] <valorie> :(
[05:55] <theonlyDK> did someone say steak?>
[05:55] <valorie> lol
[05:55] <althara> heh
[05:56] <valorie> I was trying to get a geeknik going last summer
[05:56] <valorie> but it never happened
[05:56] <althara> the brewery down the street probably has steak
[05:56] <valorie> THIS SUMMER
[05:56] <althara> I think last year was a little busy
[05:56] <valorie> for sure
[05:56] <althara> this year we'll start planning in may :)
[05:56] <valorie> possibly earlier
[05:57] <valorie> esp. if I decide to try to attend UDS again
[05:57] <althara> if we want to make it big like the linux picnic in the bay area we should definitely start planning early
[05:57] <valorie> which is April
[05:57] <valorie> right, we don't have MarkDude
[05:57] <althara> right around linuxfest time
[05:57] <valorie> who is just a people magnet
[05:57] <althara> :)
[05:57] <theonlyDK> golden gardens?
[05:58] <theonlyDK> for a picnic...
[05:58] <althara> that's a good idea
[05:58] <theonlyDK> :)
[05:58] <theonlyDK> or magnuson
[05:58] <valorie> we were scoping out the parks last year
[05:58] <theonlyDK> i know alot in this town...
[05:58] <valorie> some allow beer, some are No Alcohol
[05:59] <theonlyDK> brown paper bags say otherwise :)
[05:59] <valorie> beer isn't that important to me, but it does add to the fun for most
[05:59] <althara> I'm willing to put in some money for a rental fee if there might be one
[05:59] <althara> we also have the $25 from the lucid party
[05:59] <valorie> right, but I was going to get my son to brew us a keg
[05:59] <althara> that would be sweet!
[05:59] <theonlyDK> awesome!
[06:00] <valorie> although he tells me that buying one costs about the same
[06:00] <althara> if we bring beer they will come  :p
[06:00] <valorie> but I thought something just for us would be cool
[06:00] <theonlyDK> i have an empty mac and jacks keg i could donate
[06:00] <valorie> nice!
[06:00] <theonlyDK> it can only be filled by them too
[06:00] <valorie> mac and jacks is great!
[06:01] <theonlyDK> yeah i went on the tour a week ago
[06:01] <valorie> oh, I've never been
[06:01] <valorie> where are they?
[06:02] <althara> valorie: just for us would be awesome too ,but how would we drink a whole keg?
[06:02] <valorie> I was thinking we could get lotsa geeks to come
[06:02] <valorie> if we get a head start
[06:02] <valorie> even windows geeks
[06:03] <althara> indeed
[06:03] <valorie> since my son the brewer is a win geek
[06:03] <valorie> even the linux son uses win for WoW
[06:03] <althara> we're all inclusive :)
[06:03] <valorie> exactly
[06:04] <valorie> hard to think of a picnic now, while it's so cold
[06:04] <valorie> but summer will come, I just know it
[06:04] <valorie> :-)
[06:04] <althara> I sure hope so
[06:04] <theonlyDK> i had dual boot for gaming...
[06:05] <theonlyDK> that project grendaded though
[06:05] <althara> I played WoW on my mac <_<
[06:05] <valorie> he bought an alienware lappy just for it
[06:05] <theonlyDK> i play league of legends when i game, its super addicting
[06:05] <valorie> crazy man
[06:05] <althara> I've heard of it. Haven't installed it yet
[06:06] <theonlyDK> its blown up dota for wc3
[06:06] <theonlyDK> same devs
[06:06] <althara> Got a few friends that play pretty regularly, but I really don't need another time sink
[06:06] <theonlyDK> from*
[06:06] <valorie> my gaming goes as far as klondike
[06:06] <althara> :)
[06:06] <theonlyDK> my roomate's played 1500 games, they range from 25-75 minutes long too
[06:07] <theonlyDK> i got like 500 under my belt...
[06:07] <theonlyDK> big time sink  during the winter
[06:08] <althara> it's hard to spend that much time on games with a small child
[06:09] <theonlyDK> val the mac and jacks brewery is in redmond
[06:09] <theonlyDK> the big R!
[06:10] <valorie> cool, that's not too far away
[06:10] <valorie> will have to drag the hubby up there
[06:10] <valorie> I've gone through Redhook
[06:10] <valorie> that's right behind where my dau works, at The Herbfarm restaurant
[06:10] <althara> there is a turducken of cake
[06:11] <althara> this scares me, greatly
[06:11] <valorie> a turducken of cake?
[06:11] <valorie> this sounds.....
[06:11] <theonlyDK> NOMNOMNOM
[06:11] <althara> two different pies inside a cake
[06:11] <althara> takes three days to make
[06:11] <theonlyDK> oh my
[06:11] <valorie> OMG
[06:11] <theonlyDK> cake stuffed with pies
[06:11] <valorie> lol
[06:11] <theonlyDK> this is outragoues
[06:11] <althara> heh
[06:11] <valorie> I think i'd rather have them separately
[06:11] <theonlyDK> i've had dual layer pumpkin apple pie
[06:12] <althara> it's on the food network right _now_
[06:12] <MarkDude> valorie, you do have me to help plan some of the stuff out, and you are correct about staarting now
[06:12] <theonlyDK> but never a pie inside a cake, let alone 2...
[06:12] <valorie> hey MarkDude
[06:12] <valorie> let me just say, we are not having turducken
[06:12] <MarkDude> Yes, but you have unique powers also
[06:12] <valorie> lol
[06:13] <althara> no way. I refuse to have turducken
[06:13] <althara> now a pumple cake, maybe
[06:13] <MarkDude> I am hoping to make it to LFNW, but we will see how the work thing is
[06:13] <valorie> pumpkin cake is good
[06:13] <valorie> oooo, that woudl be FUN
[06:13] <valorie> so pretty up there
[06:13] <valorie> and the geeks are great
[06:13] <theonlyDK> why such a resistance to turducken
[06:14] <valorie> lolol
[06:14] <MarkDude> Did you see the torched banana dessert we made at Geeknic 2?
[06:14] <valorie> i did!
[06:14] <theonlyDK> negatory
[06:14]  * MarkDude will find link
[06:14] <valorie> I'm sure MarkDude has pix
[06:15] <valorie> although, I'm thinking of a roast turkey with the circle of friends in the skin......
[06:15] <valorie> lol
[06:15] <althara> there is like 3 inches of frosting between the two layers of cake
[06:15] <valorie> ugh
[06:16] <valorie> the nice thing about pumpkin bread, or cake -- no frosting
[06:16] <valorie> at most, glaze
[06:16] <althara> I like glaze more than frosting
[06:16] <althara> buttercream can get overwhelming very fast
[06:16] <valorie> me too
[06:16] <valorie> exactly
[06:16] <althara> I'll make my gramdma's poppyseed lemon cake for the picnic :)
[06:17] <valorie> sounds good
[06:17] <althara> best cake I ever had in my life
[06:17] <valorie> make it in a bundt cake pan
[06:17] <althara> but that might be because I loved my grandma :)
[06:17] <valorie> and you can easily make a circle of friends on the plate
[06:17] <althara> it's a loaf type cake
[06:18] <valorie> sure, but I bet you can make it bundt
[06:18] <althara> maybe if I double it
[06:18] <althara> I can do some experiments
[06:18] <theonlyDK> i'm not very particular about cake, i'll eat it all
[06:18] <theonlyDK> :)
[06:18] <valorie> I often change stuff like that around
[06:18] <althara> I've been really into bundt cakes lately
[06:18] <althara> pudding cakes to be exact
[06:19] <valorie> my best pumpkin cake is actually a pumpkin bread reciped
[06:19] <althara> so moist and yummy-licious
[06:19] <valorie> and vice versa
[06:19] <theonlyDK> i haven't gotten to dessert and baked goods in my cooking experiments yet...
[06:19] <valorie> the nice thing about bundt is they look fancy right out of the pan
[06:19] <valorie> without icing
[06:19] <valorie> and super fancy with just some powdered sugar or glaze
[06:19] <valorie> or cocoa
[06:20] <valorie> depending on the type
[06:20] <althara> yep
[06:20] <althara> I even found a good pan at a thrift store
[06:20] <althara> I was so happy about that
[06:20] <valorie> I have no kids, and never bake anymore
[06:20] <valorie> someone like me whose kids have all moved away
[06:20] <valorie> lol
[06:20] <althara> I couldn't justify spending $40 for a bundt pan
[06:21] <valorie> but my cake pan is still up in the cupboard
[06:21] <valorie> I hear ya
[06:21] <althara> :)
[06:21] <valorie> I think mine was a wedding gift
[06:21] <valorie> or something
[06:21] <althara> I think the one I found was fromt he 70's
[06:21] <althara> it's olive green, cast aluminum
[06:21] <althara> it'll last forever
[06:22] <valorie> oh lord
[06:22] <valorie> olive green
[06:22] <valorie> shudder
[06:22] <althara> at least it's not a fridge :P
[06:22] <valorie> everything used to be that shade
[06:22] <althara> and avacado shag rug
[06:22] <valorie> including my first fridge
[06:22] <valorie> gah, that was awful
[06:22] <althara> I've seen the pictures of the house my parents lived in pre kids :P
[06:22] <valorie> and mustard yellow
[06:23] <althara> it was very 70s
[06:23] <valorie> who was designing stuff back then?
[06:23] <valorie> ugh
[06:23] <althara> no idea
[06:23] <valorie> we moved to this house in 75
[06:23] <valorie> so glad to get ride of that dowdy old stuff finally
[06:24] <valorie> I see old photos and cringe
[06:24] <valorie> lol
[06:24] <althara> heh
[06:26] <theonlyDK> is peppermint made by google? becuase i read about a cloud os that google was building
[06:26] <valorie> hmmm
[06:27] <valorie> I didn't see the google name anywhere around it
[06:27] <valorie> but I have to say, my search wasn't exhaustive
[06:27] <valorie> it's build on 10.04
[06:27] <valorie> and has a cloud component if people put up the money for that
[06:27] <valorie> so it could be an experiment by them
[06:28] <valorie> they have their own new cloud OS out on some laptops they gave away to some folks
[06:29] <theonlyDK> yeah im gonna build a live usb for it
[06:29] <theonlyDK> and give it a go
[06:29] <theonlyDK> just cuz
[06:30] <valorie> report back
[06:30] <valorie> it looks interesting
[06:33] <theonlyDK> roger that
[06:47] <theonlyDK> this is going to be very interesting, i've never even used the cloud before
[06:58] <valorie> how much do they charge?
[06:58]  * valorie just bought cloud backup today, from spideroak
[06:58] <valorie> it's got 4 gigs so far, out of 100
[06:59] <valorie> might be uploading for awhile.....
[06:59] <theonlyDK> the os was free
[07:00] <theonlyDK> no idea what the subscription could be
[07:01] <valorie> k
[07:02] <valorie> it's sort of a nice business plan
[07:02] <valorie> basically charging for extra services and help
[07:02] <valorie> which when you think about it is what Canonical does for business
[07:12] <theonlyDK> or what google does with android...
[07:12] <theonlyDK> okay im taking the plunge...
[07:30] <althara> MarkDude: that animated gif you posted to facebook is creeping me out
[07:32] <valorie> now I have to go look!
[07:32]  * MarkDude started making some gifs for a friends band - they are heavy metal- this one is not creepy http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2424094/Dude%20running%20with%20scissors.gif
[07:33] <MarkDude> it is a dropbox pic valorie
[07:34] <valorie> k
[07:34] <valorie> that's weeeeiiiirrrrddddd
[07:34] <valorie> I should get a dropbox
[07:34] <valorie> but maybe my spideroak will work
[07:35] <valorie> gotta get the backup done first, before I mess with it
[07:35] <MarkDude> http://blogs.fedoraproject.org/wp/fifthpillar/hackergotchis/
[07:35] <MarkDude> all of them are there, yes its a Fedora blog, dont be mad at me
[07:35] <valorie> approaching 5 gigs backed up!
[07:35] <valorie> out of 80 or so
[07:35] <valorie> lol
[07:35] <valorie> why would i be mad at you
[07:36] <valorie> silly man
[07:36] <valorie> lol
[07:36] <valorie> omg googly eyes
[07:36] <valorie> now THAT is creepy
[07:37] <althara> eaxctly
[07:37] <althara> exactly
[07:48] <DKPAPPAPEPPAMINT> lookie lou i made it..running peppermint...
[07:48] <althara> nice
[07:49] <DKPAPPAPEPPAMINT> time to explore...
[07:49] <valorie> does it look good?
[07:49] <DKPAPPAPEPPAMINT> im running live right now
[07:49] <DKPAPPAPEPPAMINT> runs okay for the most part
[07:50] <DKPAPPAPEPPAMINT> internet video is doodoo
[07:51] <valorie> might not have flash installed
[07:51] <DKPAPPAPEPPAMINT> its does
[07:51] <DKPAPPAPEPPAMINT> youtube works good but every other video site is kinda shitty
[07:52] <DKPAPPAPEPPAMINT> hmmm software manager
[07:52] <DKPAPPAPEPPAMINT> interesting
[07:53] <DKPAPPAPEPPAMINT> overall the UI design is about 7 of 10
[07:53] <DKPAPPAPEPPAMINT> for not installed
[07:53] <DKPAPPAPEPPAMINT> boots up like ubuntu
[07:55] <MarkDude> Which side are the buttons on?
[07:55] <valorie> well, it IS ubuntu
[07:55] <valorie> 10.04 LTS
[07:55] <DKPAPPAPEPPAMINT> menu is windows esc bottom left
[07:55] <MarkDude> The correct side then :P
[07:55] <DKPAPPAPEPPAMINT> windows-esque*
[07:56] <valorie> lol
[07:56] <DKPAPPAPEPPAMINT> actually
[07:56] <DKPAPPAPEPPAMINT> the entire bottom taskbar is XP
[07:56] <DKPAPPAPEPPAMINT> which makes me hate this
[07:56] <valorie> correct=KDE where you can have them whereever you want
[07:56] <valorie> lol
[07:56] <DKPAPPAPEPPAMINT> 4 workspaces....imagine that!
[07:57] <MarkDude> Hmm, sounds like a possible *gateway drug* I can use to get folks into Linux
[07:57] <valorie> I heard about it earlier today, when a friend of mine said he'd installed it instead of windows
[07:58] <valorie> PeppermintOS
[07:58] <valorie> had never heard of it before
[07:58] <valorie> looks pretty cute
[08:04] <DKPAPPAPEPPAMINT> its super similiar to windows
[08:04] <DKPAPPAPEPPAMINT> scary infact
[08:04] <DKPAPPAPEPPAMINT> has a "run" command
[08:04] <DKPAPPAPEPPAMINT> in the menu
[08:10] <MarkDude> Run?
[08:10] <DKPAPPAPEPPAMINT> yeah
[08:11] <DKPAPPAPEPPAMINT> like windows 98
[08:11] <MarkDude> is there a pepppermintconfig,sys?
[08:11]  * DKPAPPAPEPPAMINT shudders
[08:11] <DKPAPPAPEPPAMINT> flash crashed...imagine that
[08:12] <MarkDude> that is a cross platform feature of flash
[08:12] <MarkDude> does that well on all platforms
[08:12] <DKPAPPAPEPPAMINT> yeah i've learned that...
[08:12] <DKPAPPAPEPPAMINT> slowly :)
[08:12] <MarkDude> They have been perfecting it
[08:13] <valorie> I'm pretty sure that it is meant to be familiar to win users
[08:14] <DKPAPPAPEPPAMINT> yeah
[08:14] <MarkDude> Well the crashing makes them feel at home :D
[08:14] <valorie> rofl
[08:14] <DKPAPPAPEPPAMINT> flash crashes all the time in 11.04 for me...
[08:14] <valorie> one thing that draws us all together: hatred of flash!
[08:15] <DKPAPPAPEPPAMINT> yeah
[08:15] <MarkDude> And as you get more used to Linux, you can move the slider towards the less crashes side
[08:15]  * valorie is listening to Bitter Sweet Symphony by The Verve on Urban Hymns [Amarok]
[08:15] <DKPAPPAPEPPAMINT> hmmm
[08:15] <valorie> just seemed apropos
[08:16]  * MarkDude is going to be performing my Sister's Marriage next month
[08:16] <DKPAPPAPEPPAMINT> i've tried using different synaptics for the flash plugins but all have equally shitty performance
[08:16] <MarkDude> Ordained on ulc.org - ty
[08:17] <MarkDude> DKPAPPAPEPPAMINT, the proper phrase is re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic
[08:17] <DKPAPPAPEPPAMINT> hmmm
[08:17] <DKPAPPAPEPPAMINT> i can view and use all the files on my hd...
[08:18] <DKPAPPAPEPPAMINT> mkv still glitchy playback...
[08:24] <valorie> nice, MarkDude
[08:25] <valorie> I found out my middle son has officiated at a couple of weddings
[08:25] <valorie> I didn't have a clue
[08:25] <valorie> lol
[08:25] <valorie> I have ulc ordination too, but don't know where my piece of paper is
[08:25] <althara> ditto
[08:25] <valorie> nor do I really want to conduct a wedding
[08:25] <valorie> that's a lot of pressue
[08:25] <valorie> pressure
[08:26] <MarkDude> The advice said just sign up again - I had done it in 2006 or sumthin
[08:26]  * MarkDude plans on marrying some folks again
[08:27]  * MarkDude reserves the right not to do it - I may pass on it it if I dont think I am the right person- this will be my 1st time
[08:27] <MarkDude> I am cool with it- I might perform some civil unions also
[08:28] <MarkDude> and eventually marriages for gay folks also
[08:28] <MarkDude> the timing being the laws- not mine :)
[08:29] <valorie> of course
[08:31]  * MarkDude was joking that he can be the Sinister Minister
[08:32] <MarkDude> The titles they have on Ulc are great- rock n roll reverend, dervish, even Pope
[08:33] <MarkDude> I will spend a $ to see if we can get one to name Alan- Pope Pope
[08:33] <valorie> I wonder if any of the sisters of perpetual indulgence do weddings?
[08:34] <valorie> now that would be a touch of class!
[08:34] <MarkDude> Most likely
[08:34] <valorie> I went to gay bingo awhile ago, which they were running
[08:34] <valorie> it was fun!
[08:34]  * MarkDude met one of them last summer cant find the card
[08:34] <valorie> and a huge fundraiser
[08:35] <valorie> they are easy to find on the web
[08:35] <valorie> Abbey of St. Joan down there
[08:35]  * MarkDude can just imagine a few of the winners beyond excited
[08:36] <MarkDude> people totally freak over winning, my ex-fiance used to bingo all the time
[08:37] <valorie> first time I've ever done it
[08:37] <valorie> I did BAD
[08:37] <valorie> lol
[08:41]  * MarkDude could not even do 1 bingo card
[08:42] <althara> bingo is fun
[08:42] <MarkDude> Linda had like 12 and was still tracking mine
[08:42] <althara> especially if you can drink while you play
[08:42] <althara> and if you do it like the odeon did, with massive amounts of ridiculous
[08:43] <MarkDude> Fridays were cool, i would come home hand my wallet over, dinner was made. I would watch the kids until bingo was over
[08:44] <MarkDude> althara,  they have a smoking and non section there?
[08:44] <althara> no, it was a bar in SF. Closed down three years ago, I think.
[08:44] <althara> Actually longer
[08:45] <althara> And SF hates smoking :)
[08:45] <MarkDude> Smoking and people that drive hummers
[08:46] <althara> indeed
[08:46] <DK12> hating smoking is the cool thing to do now a days
[08:46] <DK12> i get mean mugged a lot downtown when im walkin and smokin
[08:46] <DK12> :(
[08:47] <althara> The obnoxious behavior goes both ways, I've found.  Work :(


[03:53] <keescook> wooo... finally starting my breezy upgrade.  this should be interesting.
[10:35] <gardengnome> re
[10:35] <gardengnome> darn, missed superm1 again :(
[02:15] <keescook> dang.  after my feisty upgrade, myth forgot all my scheduled recordings.  :(
[02:19] <keescook> oh never mind, it just lost my recording source <-> channel source mapping.  after I restored that everything is fine.  *whew*
[06:17] <JackTheBiscuit> Hello I'm having trouble choosing a remote control
[06:56] <Made_Man> Hello all, I'm a bit of a ubuntu newb, but have worked with computers for a while
[06:56] <Made_Man> I have a question about working with mythbuntu
[06:57] <Made_Man> is there anyway to get to the "normal" ubuntu interface?
[06:57] <Made_Man> I'd like to do things like create network shares, install programs, etc and It's a lot easier from the standard ubuntu interface
[06:57] <Made_Man> all I have is a command line
[06:57] <Made_Man> and the options to start the backend server, etc
[09:43] <keescook> hm, anyone seen "Channel(/dev/video0): SetInputAndFormat() failed" after an upgrade?
[10:15] <fstx2> I have a bttv that work with xawtv, but I can't get it to switch channels with myth


[18:32] <edmont> hi
[18:34] <edmont> I'm trying to solve some audio/video problems with my Intel Skylake platform
[18:34] <edmont> I tried many linux flavors and got the best results with latest LibreELEC alpha
[18:35] <edmont> but I want a real OS, that's why I want to make it work with Ubuntu
[18:35] <edmont> currently I have installed Ubuntu Gnome 16.10, and upgraded to Zesty
[18:36] <edmont> how to see which Intel drivers are included in my kernel?
[18:37] <edmont> and how to compare with the LibreELEC ones?
[18:51] <apw> edmont, intel drivers are in sync with upstream in zesty, sofrom 4.9
[18:55] <edmont> apw: what's the difference with libreelec then?
[21:47] <JanC> I also have issues with Intel Skylake graphics, so this doesn't really surprise me...
[21:48] <JanC> but then again, I haven't seen Intel graphics without issues in the last 3-4 years or so...
[21:49] <JanC> sometimes I doubt they do any serious testing at Intel...


[08:27] <DarkTrick> Hello
[08:27] <knome> hello
[08:27] <DarkTrick> Is this the only channel for xubuntu?
[08:27] <knome> no
[08:28] <DarkTrick> I want to propose the usage of a new window theme.
[08:28] <DarkTrick> Is there a preferred place to go?
[08:28] <knome> this is the preferred place in IRC
[08:28] <DarkTrick> Thank you.
[08:30] <DarkTrick> I created a thread on xfce.org, that contains all information (the "why"), pictures and the themes. I would be glad, if someone could take the time to take a quick look at it
[08:30] <DarkTrick> https://forum.xfce.org/viewtopic.php?pid=51762
[08:32] <knome> DarkTrick, there has been talks about adding an "accessibility" theme for greybird that would tackle the window border issues
[08:32] <knome> DarkTrick, i feel like this is close to what you are suggesting for the default theme
[08:32] <DarkTrick> knome, yes it sounds like that.
[08:33] <DarkTrick> knome, although a second point is the size of buttons.
[08:33] <knome> that said, it hasn't been worked on for a while because real life and priorities
[08:33] <knome> sure, those would likely also be bigger in an "accessibility" theme
[08:33] <DarkTrick> "hasn't been worked on" means "not yet started"?
[08:33] <knome> in quotes, because it wouldn't really only be geared towards those that have specific accessibility needs
[08:34] <knome> https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird/tree/master/xfwm4-a11y
[08:34] <knome> this has been discussed for literally years, but again, nobody has had the time to do it
[08:35] <knome> every once in a while we get users mentioning the borders are too thin
[08:35] <knome> how we'd really like this problem to be solved is to allow a bigger area to be dragged from but keeping the visuals we have now
[08:36] <DarkTrick> Same here.
[08:36] <knome> ...but that's not possible with the current software and the solution is much harder than creating a workaround theme
[08:36] <DarkTrick> I guessed the programming takes more time than a theme.
[08:37] <knome> and also means a specific component (xfw4) needs a change, and the people who are familiar enough with that to work with it are much sparser than those who can work on a theme
[08:37] <knome> all this said, if you want to work with the greybird a11y variant, all help is appreciated!
[08:38] <knome> ochosi is the main author for the theme, but even github tells me the theme hasn't been tinkered with in 2 years
[08:38] <knome> (that doesn't mean ochosi isn't active, it just means it's time since he has had to touch it)
[08:38] <knome> the gtk3 theme part is very much in active development.
[08:39] <DarkTrick> I just checked the theme. It seems like it's the usual greybird one at the moment
[08:39] <knome> that's also very possible
[08:40] <DarkTrick> Is it necessary to create a theme for gtk2 and the others as well?
[08:40] <DarkTrick> or would xfwm4 be enough
[08:40] <knome> those are different things
[08:40] <DarkTrick> enough = enough for already making it available
[08:40] <knome> "just xfwm4" would suffice
[08:40] <DarkTrick> ok
[08:41] <knome> the gtk themes tweak other parts of the UI; pretty much everything *inside* the window borders
[08:43] <DarkTrick> I will make some time to work on a11y.
[08:43] <DarkTrick> I also mentioned bigger buttons. Doing that would not look like "the good old" greybird anymore.
[08:44] <DarkTrick> Would it be a better choice to introduce a completely new theme for that?
[08:59] <ochosi> we do ship "greybird-accessibility" as window manager theme already
[08:59] <ochosi> and a separate greybird gtk+ theme for all other widgets would be too much work (for me at least)
[08:59] <ochosi> you can use adwaita if you want big buttons :)
[09:00] <DarkTrick> Greybird-accessibility changes to borders only by one or two pixels.
[09:00] <ochosi> yup
[09:01] <ochosi> plus bigger buttons
[09:01] <ochosi> and more visible buttons
[09:01] <DarkTrick> The ones from me have +8 / 10 pixels
[09:01] <DarkTrick> I still have problems with only two pixels more
[09:01] <DarkTrick> Maybe that's a personal problem, though
[09:01] <ochosi> there will always be people who have problems with a few px more or less ;)
[09:02] <DarkTrick> This is my suggestion
[09:02] <DarkTrick> https://www.dropbox.com/s/0vp7leawy1o1ner/theme2.jpeg?dl=0
[09:04] <ochosi> sure, that's simply a different theme though
[09:06] <DarkTrick> Maybe I'm too cocksure of myself, but I think my  proposed theme would really make window handling easier.
[09:06] <DarkTrick> Btw: @knome: Thank you for your help!
[09:06] <knome> DarkTrick, np
[09:08] <DarkTrick> ochosi, If I get things right at the moment, the best solution would be to upload it at xfce-look.org?
[09:32] <ochosi> yeah, that would be a good start
[09:32] <ochosi> we can always consider another wm theme for inclusing into xfce
[09:32] <ochosi> errrm, xubuntu
[09:32] <knome> (:
[09:32] <ochosi> however, you have to keep client-side window decorations in mind
[09:32] <ochosi> so you have to alter the gtk theme as well for consistency
[09:33] <ochosi> otherwise those CSD windows will look different/out of place
[09:44] <DarkTrick> ochosi, "client-side window"?
[09:50] <DarkTrick> If I know how to test it, I can create it.
[09:52] <ochosi> you can check e.g. evince or gnome's calculator
[09:52] <ochosi> for many apps, the CSD are deactivated in xubuntu
[09:52] <ochosi> but not all
[10:05] <DarkTrick> Why would I need to care about CSD? As far as I understand they have a fixed decoration anyway.
[10:05] <DarkTrick> So themes won't apply to them.
[21:02] <brainwash> bluesabre: still awaiting a comment on bug 1754872
[21:03] <brainwash> #27 has my solution


[22:04] <jarnos> If I have two DVB-T tuners in my device, do I have to make channel search for them both separately?