[15:38] <mgedmin> is anyone here on ubuntu 3.10 without the gnome3 PPA?
[15:39] <mgedmin> can you check if eog is able to display the image attached to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-gnome/+bug/1275767 correctly?
[20:06] <Noskcaj> darkxst, How/Where should i upload the gnome-weather package?
[23:21] <darkxst> jackson__, just submit it as normal via launchpad/bzr, any MOTU can sponsor it and upload to the NEW queue
[23:22] <darkxst> I will also upload to the gnome3 PPA in the meanwhile, if you link the branch


[08:08] <dholbach> good morning
[10:13] <vish> bdmurray: hmm , Bug #554174 got tagged "patch" after the fix got released ...
[10:13] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 554174 in system-config-printer (Debian) (and 2 other projects) "Inappropriately appears in Ubuntu Software Center "Developer Tools" > "Python" (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Unknown,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/554174
[10:21] <nigelb> vish: if you have the time track the mail to the list about this so brian can see all the headers
[10:22] <vish> nigelb: can i get more than 24hrs in a day? :)
[10:26] <nigelb> vish: maybe.  ask dholbach what he's on :p
[10:27] <dholbach> what are you guys talking about?
[10:27] <nigelb> dholbach: heh, was kidding.
[10:28] <vish> dholbach: we plan to be vampires :D
[10:28] <nigelb> hahahaha
[10:28] <nigelb> twilight style!
[10:28] <dholbach> I'm not going to stop you
[10:29] <vish> dholbach: awesome! we planned to use you as our first victim \o/
[14:42] <MWelchUK_work> Any chance of Bug #554174 being reviewed soon?
[14:42] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 554174 in system-config-printer (Debian) (and 2 other projects) "Inappropriately appears in Ubuntu Software Center "Developer Tools" > "Python" (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Unknown,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/554174
[14:42] <MWelchUK_work> Agh! Bug #524366 even!
[14:42] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 524366 in gzip (Fedora) (and 1 other project) "Regression: CRC error an i386 (affects: 15) (dups: 1) (heat: 96)" [Unknown,Unknown] https://launchpad.net/bugs/524366
[14:58] <nigelb> MWelchUK_work: its on the sponsorship queue.  Have you thought of forwarding the patch upstream?
[15:10] <MWelchUK_work> nigelb, The patch is a backport from upstream AFAICT.
[15:36] <MWelchUK_work> nigelb, What's the typical timescale for patches to be reviewed? I only ask because this problem has been known about since at least February, with a patch being available for over a month. This issue was discovered in Fedora in May and was rolled out at the beginning of this month...


[05:48] <rml_home_> numpty question:  If I have 50 files names *_OLD_* and want them to end up as *_NEW_* is there a bash one-liner to rename them?
[06:27] <dwatkins> rml_home_: assuming there are no duplicate names you might overwrite, try: for i in *_OLD_* ; mv “$i” “${i/_OLD_/_NEW_}” ; done
[06:56] <rml_home_> dwatkins: thanks!  I shall give it a twirl
[06:58] <rml_home_> sorry for delayed response, was on the school run :)
[06:58] <directhex> that would work fine, assuming no filenames have a space in
[07:19] <rml_home_> yay!  all sorted!  Thanks
[07:25] <dwatkins> excellent, rml_home_ :)
[07:29] <MooDoo> morning
[07:32] <TheOpenSourcerer> Isn't the world a funny place sometimes? http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20130513135507864
[07:34] <dwatkins> indeed, TheOpenSourcerer - I would have expected that sort of thing in theUS, not Germany
[08:20] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[08:20] <MooDoo> morning
[08:25] <diplo> Morning
[08:26] <dwatkins> morning!
[08:38] <JamesTait> Good morning all, happy Dance Like A Chicken Day! :-D http://youtu.be/9aKd_vQTwpw
[08:39]  * DJones does the funky chicken
[08:39]  * dwatkins swings a chicken in the air
[08:40] <DJones> Beat me too that one
[08:44]  * dwatkins hands DJones a deckchair
[09:04] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[09:07] <MooDoo> morning
[09:07] <brobostigon> morning MooDoo
[10:08] <DJones> I know this is Microsoft releated, but can anybody recommend a standalone twitter app, I don't like viewing in a web browser, I just want something I can have a small window on the desktop that does realtime updates, Ideally something like the Friends app or Polly etc
[10:10] <directhex> which browser do you use?
[10:10] <DJones> Normally chrome
[10:10] <mungbean> hotot
[10:11] <directhex> https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/cnfkkfleeiooolklkgkmigodkmcopnji
[10:11] <DJones> Ah, Destroytwitter is the one I used to use
[10:11] <MooDoo> DJones: try echofon
[10:11] <MooDoo> actually ignore that
[10:11] <dwatkins> DJones: I used to use bitlbee and irssi, perhaps not the best graphical client, but it was amusing to watch
[10:12] <dwatkins> if you had a Mac, I'd reccomend Itsy.
[10:12] <mgdm> I couldn't imagine using anything other that irssi for IRC, but I couldn't ever use it for IM or Twitter
[10:12] <dwatkins> I setup bitlbee at home just for fun, it was amusing, but I prefer a GUI for IM myself too, so I can click links and send and receive files easily.
[10:13] <mungbean> i use adnroid for twitter
[10:13] <mungbean> check it every 2 or 3 days
[10:13] <dwatkins> there's a waterfall twitter site that shows constant updates if you really want to see what everyone's saying
[10:13] <dwatkins> http://twitterfall.com/
[10:14] <dwatkins> I guess you could run that in another browser, e.g. Chromium
[10:14] <DJones> I'm going with destroytwitter, used to use mahtweets but that became abandonware
[10:15] <DJones> Thanks for the suggestions though
[10:45] <BigRedS> rml_home_: Bit late, but you might want ot look at the 'rename' command
[10:48] <rml_home_> thanks BigRedS.  I actually used some piping to sed in the end.  All done now though.  I was just too sleepy first thing to think straight
[10:58] <andylock1an> howdy folks
[10:58] <andylock1an> many, been a while since I've beeen here :(
[10:58] <dwatkins> Cmdr Hadfield has returned to earth http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/videogallery/index.html?media_id=163032701
[10:59] <andylock1an> howdy
[10:59] <popey> howdy howdy howdy
[10:59] <BigRedS> rml_home_: yeah, rename is a much-underrated/underused command IMO
[10:59] <dwatkins> allo andylock1an, how do?
[10:59] <andylock1an> oops
[10:59] <andylock1an> I was scrolled up
[10:59] <andylockran> not bad - looking for employment in London.
[10:59] <popey> doing wot?
[11:00] <andylockran> popey: Project Management
[11:00] <andylockran> experience with PCI DSS, ISO 2700x & agency development work
[11:00] <popey> http://blog.songkick.com/jobs/
[11:00] <popey> "Even if you don’t fit into one of the roles above, get in touch with us anyway if you love live music and get obsessed with solving interesting problems. We’re always looking for good people."
[11:01] <andylockran> Thanks popey!
[11:02] <popey> friend of mine works there
[11:02] <andylockran> thanks for the headsup.
[11:02] <popey> np
[11:05] <popey> just checked with him, they have no project manager positions, product manager is closest ☻
[11:08] <andylockran> yeah; it looks closest but would require 3 years product management experience - I'l send the CV over so at least they have it on file.
[11:14] <andylockran> done
[11:41] <davmor2> google image atari breakout that will kill your free time off for now :)
[11:58] <czajkowski> addictive
[12:02] <popey> or "addicting" as those loony yanks say
[12:08] <mungbean> "know that feel"
[13:46] <mink> Hi. Anyone know how enable functionality on gnome desktop (ubuntu), in workspaces, when I scroll on thumbnails of workspaces then should switch to next/prev workspace.
[13:47] <mink> It's working for me before, but yesterday I reinstall ubuntu and I can't switch workspaces on that way
[13:56] <BigRedS> Do you know if your version of Gnome has changed? They've been removing that sort of functionality recently, you might've inadvertently upgraded? Did you reinstall to the same verion of Ubuntu?
[13:56] <BigRedS> I've not got a Gnome-shell handy with which to check whether I can do that
[16:39] <ali1234> has anyone actually used gnome-terminal 3.9?
[16:40] <ali1234> i can't get it to run here as they have added loads of dependencies
[16:40] <ali1234> instead of a single stand alone application it is now a client/server system that requires dbus to run
[16:40] <ali1234> instead of gnome-terminal you now get gnome-terminal-client, gnome-terminal-server, and gnome-terminal-migration
[16:41] <directhex> :D
[16:42] <directhex> amazing
[16:42] <mgdm> double yew tee eff
[16:42] <mgdm> are they reinventing tmux or something?
[16:43] <ali1234> no, the end result is actually has less configuration options than it did before
[16:43] <ali1234> this is supposed to make the code easier to maintain
[16:47] <ali1234> it also has a plugin for nautilus
[16:48] <ali1234> so instead of patching nautilus to open the user's prefered terminal
[16:48] <ali1234> instead the patched gnome-terminal to add a nautilus extension that opens gnome-terminal and only gnome-terminal
[16:48] <popey> delightful
[16:49] <popey> is this the new world order of cloud apps?
[16:49] <ali1234> no this is "opinionated software" - i believe you work for one of the pioneers of that?
[16:50] <directhex> my opinion is "bees :("
[16:50] <ali1234> here's a good change
[16:51] <ali1234> they changed the default colour scheme from black text on brown to green text on black
[16:51] <ali1234> white text would have been better but never mind
[16:52] <popey> i was more asking why the client/server split
[16:52] <ali1234> because opinions are good and users are idiots1!!
[16:53] <ali1234> actually i don't know because i can't run the thing
[16:53] <ali1234> which is why i asked if anyone has used it
[16:54] <popey> what does it run on? Fedora 19?
[16:54] <ali1234> i don't know
[16:54] <ali1234> i just tried to build the git
[16:54] <ali1234> probably fedora is a good bet
[17:18] <Azelphur> well that was fun, I just filed a police report against a bank o.O
[17:18] <Azelphur> for theft lol
[17:19] <Azelphur> that got them moving ;)
[17:19] <christel> i say!
[17:19] <Azelphur> the bank manager was so close to getting arrested
[17:19] <mgdm> why?
[17:20] <Azelphur> someone bought some BTC from me and is either trying chargeback fraud or using a stolen account, so Santander decided the clever thing to do was to freeze my entire account for two weeks
[17:20] <Azelphur> lots of lies about when it'll be resolved, lies from the branch manager, etc, with me complying all the way through, told them that this 48 hours they promised it would be resolved in would be the last time, and of course this morning it's still not resolved like they promised...
[17:21] <Azelphur> so, police report for theft as they told me the funds would be available 2 weeks ago and they still arn't
[17:21] <Azelphur> I ended up with the entire police department in the reception listening in as one of the detectives phoned the bank and told them off, was epic.
[17:22] <Azelphur> they managed to make a sane agreement now that they were on the verge of being arrested :P
[17:22] <brobostigon> lol
[17:23] <brunogirin> Azelphur: brilliant! I'm sure the plods enjoyed doing that too :-)
[17:24] <Azelphur> I told them I was going to the police station and they thought I was kidding, I got a callback 3 minutes later while I was in the car.
[17:24] <Azelphur> and they are like where are you...in a car on the way to the police station
[17:24] <Azelphur> xD
[17:28] <ali1234> you sure do like causing trouble...
[17:30] <Azelphur> ali1234: what can I say, I'm a troublemaker.
[17:30] <Azelphur> although if they didn't try to steal 14k off me I wouldn't be causing any trouble.
[17:30] <Azelphur> I cause trouble to people who cause me trouble ;)
[17:30] <ali1234> why can't yo air gap it?
[17:31] <Azelphur> air gap?
[17:31] <ali1234> make a company account
[17:31] <ali1234> then make another company account at another bank under a different company
[17:31] <Azelphur> I already have a business account now
[17:31] <ali1234> when someone sends you money by bank transfer immediately withdraw it in cash, take it to second bank
[17:32] <Azelphur> ali1234: yea, I've been tempted to do that, especially for large transactions.
[17:32] <ali1234> they now cannot ever freeze more than 1 transaction
[17:32] <Azelphur> indeed
[17:32] <czajkowski> Azelphur: it's never ever simple with you
[17:33] <Azelphur> haha
[17:33] <Azelphur> what can I say I lead an eventful life
[17:33]  * mgdm makes a note to avoid business with Azelphur
[17:33] <mgdm> just in case, you know :)
[17:33] <Azelphur> It was pretty simple really, the bank asked for evidence, I gave them everything they wanted, they refused to even look at the evidence they asked for and were just generally useless for 2 weeks solid
[17:33] <Azelphur> I gave them every chance to put it right
[17:35] <czajkowski> Azelphur: I swear you bring it on yourself tbh
[17:35] <Azelphur> czajkowski: well, if you class bitcoin trading as bringing it on myself, perhaps so yes.
[17:35] <czajkowski> oh then yes I do :)
[17:35] <czajkowski> hows the landlord situation ?
[17:36] <Azelphur> but then, if nobody tried anything new, the world would be a pretty sad place.
[17:36] <Azelphur> czajkowski: oh great, I moved.
[17:36] <Azelphur> new landlord is awesome.
[17:36] <Azelphur> new apartment is awesome too.
[17:36] <directhex> old landlord was hanged
[17:36] <directhex> for crimes against Azelphur
[17:37]  * czajkowski starts taking bets on when there will be issues with Azelphur new place
[17:37] <czajkowski> do I have 3 months anyone
[17:37] <Azelphur> directhex: working on that, once I got the bank stuff sorted out I plan to take him to small claims and show him what for too :)
[17:37] <Azelphur> czajkowski: haha, it's not like I made a dispute for myself there...
[17:37] <directhex> czajkowski, 78 days
[17:38] <Azelphur> czajkowski: I found at least 5 other people all of whom had major repair issues under that landlord, I had no oven for 5 months (since I moved in) that's hardly my fault :P
[17:38] <Azelphur> apart from perhaps poor apartment selection.
[17:38] <diddledan> I blame the white mice
[17:38]  * czajkowski takes 78 days fom Azelphur
[17:38] <Azelphur> lol
[17:38] <Azelphur> blame poor Azelphur for all the problems :<
[17:39] <diddledan> oh well if you insist.. it's Azelphur 's fault
[17:39] <ali1234> czajkowski does not like it when people stand up for themselves. why am i not surprised?
[17:39] <czajkowski> do I have 92 days
[17:39] <czajkowski> anyone
[17:39] <czajkowski> any takers
[17:39] <Azelphur> hehe
[17:39]  * czajkowski takes 110 days
[17:39] <Azelphur> xD
[17:39] <mgdm> czajkowski: I'll tkae 92
[17:39] <Azelphur> ali1234: yea, I think the thing with me is that I let people take advantage of me most of my life, and one day I just kinda snapped and said right, no more of this.
[17:40] <Azelphur> and now I take stuff as far as it needs to go to ensure nobody takes advantage of me.
[17:40] <czajkowski> mgdm: taken
[17:40] <ali1234> there are too many douchebags with zero personal resposibility in this world
[17:40] <ali1234> Azelphur: you are doing good work
[17:40] <Azelphur> ali1234: my thoughts exactly, thanks :)
[17:41] <Azelphur> ali1234: I gave the old neighbours my phone number too, I fully plan to keep helping them any way I can with the old Landlord battle, so I'm not out of that one :)
[17:42] <bashrc> There are many cowboys in the landlord business
[17:43] <diddledan> ok, someone explain what's the supposedly super special feature of Apple's "EarPods"? I mean apart from the fact they look uncomfortable
[17:43] <ali1234> link?
[17:43] <diddledan> erm
[17:44] <Azelphur> bashrc: yea
[17:44] <ali1234> they are just regular earphone
[17:44] <diddledan> http://store.apple.com/us/product/MD827LL/A/apple-earpods-with-remote-and-mic
[17:44] <shauno> diddledan, as far as I gather, they're like java.  fits as many users as possible by being equally uncomfortable for everyone
[17:44] <ali1234> the remote probably has some extra proprietary buttons
[17:45] <ali1234> the method for doing that is patented by sony btw
[17:45] <ali1234> 1 wire with different resistances through each button and an adc
[17:46] <diddledan> go Sony
[17:46] <diddledan> I always liked Sony stuff
[17:47] <diddledan> stems from Dad furnishing our home with staff sales when I was a nipper
[17:47] <ali1234> they used to be good
[17:47] <ali1234> minidisc was good at the time
[17:48] <diddledan> the two biggest customers in the uk of sony stuff is 1) dixons group, 2) staff sales
[17:48]  * popey mourned the death of his Sony Trinitron FD-1
[17:49] <diddledan> I never really got the point of minidisk
[17:49] <diddledan> c*
[17:49] <ali1234> diddledan: it's basically a read/write CD player
[17:49] <diddledan> I guess because it didn't reach critical mass
[17:49] <ali1234> with magneto-optical disks
[17:50] <ali1234> it was just about to do that when mp3s and cheap flash showed up
[17:50] <ali1234> not really minidisc's fault
[17:50] <diddledan> is that a combined xman between magneto and cyclops? imagine the destruction!!
[17:50] <popey> my first mp3 player was a Diamond RIO
[17:50] <ali1234> i have one of those i think
[17:51] <ali1234> the very first one with like a 8 mb card
[17:51] <diddledan> 8MB, as in 2xMP3?
[17:51] <diddledan> :-p
[17:52] <ali1234> yeah
[17:52] <ali1234> it doesn't even have a display
[17:53] <mgdm> popey: I still have my Rio
[17:53] <popey> me too
[17:54] <popey> yeah, mine has a display
[17:54] <popey> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Diamond_Rio_PMP300.jpg
[17:54] <ali1234> oh it's not one of those
[17:54] <ali1234> i don't know what i have
[17:54] <mgdm> I had to solder one of the battery connectors, but it still works, though I have nothing with a parallel port to put music on any more
[17:54] <popey> yeah, whacky connector that piggy-backs on parallel port
[17:55] <popey> pre-usb and pre-firewire
[17:55] <mgdm> one of my printers didn't get on with that
[17:55] <popey> ditto
[17:55] <popey> i should take a photo of mine, it looks way better than that pic
[17:56] <directhex> which was first, the rio pmp300 or the mpman?
[17:57] <mgdm> I *think* the mpman
[17:57] <directhex> looks like mpman
[17:57] <directhex> The MPMan was not well received by critics and consumers.[citation needed] The Rio PMP300, which was released soon afterward, was received better.[citation needed]
[17:57] <popey> mpman according to wikipedia
[17:58] <popey> ah there
[17:58] <popey> ooh, better picture
[17:58] <popey> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rio_pmp300.jpg
[18:01] <shauno> The RIAA's Associate Director of Anti-Copyright infringement initially said the MPMan had "no function other than playing material that was stolen from record companies". He later said it was "a unique device. It's something that we haven't seen on the market before"
[18:01] <shauno> sad to think that in 15 years, they haven't moved too far
[18:07] <BigRedS> we've moved hugely IMO
[18:07] <BigRedS> both Spotify and iTunesalikes are available, and they are the record industry actually using teh Interent
[18:07] <BigRedS> and the Internet, too
[18:08] <ali1234> i can't find it
[18:08] <ali1234> i remember it had a yellow front and no built in storage
[18:08] <shauno> I'm still very disappointed there's no second-hand market at all
[18:09] <BigRedS> no, it's not as good as it could be, but that's not to say it isn't better
[18:10] <BigRedS> I've stopped my dubious downloading because Spotify is easier
[18:10] <BigRedS> so it works, too. (at least in one case)
[18:11] <mgdm> They removed all of an artist I like from Spotify the other day, which is irritating, as I have the albums in question but they are a) on CD b) I have no CD drive in my day to day computer c) The CDs are 200 miles away in a box
[18:14] <davmor2> mgdm: sign up to a different service
[18:16] <shauno> completely OT, but any suggestions for an android equivalent of the ipod touch?  (eg, a very small tablet, phone form-factor without being a phone)
[18:16] <ali1234> ah found it http://content.hwigroup.net/images/old/reviews/000139-00.jpg
[18:16] <ali1234> it was like that but yellow
[18:16] <mgdm> davmor2: but I like the one I have, except for the lack of Four Tet :)
[18:17] <ali1234> seems to be from about 2002
[18:17] <Azelphur> I think talktalk might have goofed my fibre a bit too, before I moved they said I could get fibre, but now they say I can't, I asked BT if I can get fibre and they say I can xD
[18:20] <mgdm> call the police? :D
[18:20]  * mgdm flees
[18:20] <Azelphur> haha, nah it's probably just someone making a mistake somewhere :P
[18:20] <mgdm> A mistake in TalkTalk? Surely not
[18:20] <Azelphur> exactly. :P
[18:26] <ali1234> interesting
[18:26] <ali1234> so gnome-terminal sort of still supports transparency
[18:34] <ali1234> it looks to me like if you manually set the gsetting key for background colour, it accepts an alpha value
[18:34] <ali1234> i can't run it to test though
[18:44] <mgdm> I'd not mind so much if they got rid of features if they had a reasonable argument
[18:44] <mgdm> 'RESOLVED WONTFIX' with a comment of "No." is not a reasonable argument
[18:46] <diplo> Hi guys, trying to tail a file ( access log ) and want to grep for 2 ip's connecting to a specific area
[18:46] <diplo> Thought you could do something like tail -f logfile | grep name | egrep -v "ipaddr" | egrep -v "ipaddr"
[18:47] <diplo> Works with one, is there a way to filter for two easily ?
[18:47] <diplo> Failing at google foo at the mo
[18:47] <mgdm> remove the -vs?
[18:48] <mgdm> it seems you have them backwards - -v means "does not match"
[18:49] <brunogirin> tail -f logfile | grep name | grep -e ip1 -e ip2
[18:49] <diplo> Doesn't return anything then, if i remove one of the ips and do grep name| grep ip it works fine, if i add another grep returns nothing
[18:49] <diplo> ah, will try that ta
[18:49] <diplo> new one
[18:49] <diplo> :)
[18:50] <brunogirin> -e allows you to specify multiple patterns
[18:50] <brunogirin> I think
[18:50] <mgdm> in sed it does
[18:50] <mgdm> not sure about grep
[18:51] <brunogirin> mgdm you'd expect them to be consistent :-) maybe...
[18:51] <mgdm> in a logical world... :)
[18:51] <popey> Fools.
[18:51] <diplo> well it's returning the second one, going to double check the first ip is actually in the file :D
[18:52] <mgdm> however, you are correct, I just looked ;)
[18:52] <brunogirin> diplo: yes that would help, however if it's returning the 2nd one it's a good sign
[18:52] <diplo> OK great, thanks very much.. would have got there eventually but you speeded it up no end. ta fanx!
[18:52] <brunogirin> popey: I'm sure normality will be restored shortly
[18:53] <brunogirin> diplo no prob
[18:54] <popey> ☻
[18:57] <ali1234> the worst part is that the people who want the softwar to stay the same end up having to fork under a new name, while the people who are making massively intrusive changes get to keep working on the original project
[18:58] <ali1234> if gnome-shell was done as a fork it would have less users than mint right now
[18:58] <ali1234> sorry, mate
[18:59] <popey> no idea how many users mate / gs / cinnamon have really
[18:59] <popey> hard to tell
[18:59] <ali1234> none basically
[18:59] <ali1234> except for gnome shell which has all fedora users
[18:59] <ali1234> but that is only because of this reason
[19:00] <popey> how many users does fedora have?
[19:00] <popey> it's tens of millions?
[19:01] <dwatkins> depends on your definition of users, popey.
[19:03] <popey> people who by any normal usage of the term "users" are users.
[19:03] <popey> i.e. people who use it
[19:03] <ali1234> people who use it as a desktop OS
[19:03] <ali1234> if you want to know how many users gs has
[19:03] <popey> yeah
[19:03] <ali1234> i doubt it's tens of millions
[19:03] <diddledan> 3 and susan on the weekends
[19:03] <diplo> Didn't work  :) thought it had :/
[19:04] <ali1234> maybe 1 million
[19:04] <popey> i thought fedora had way more than that
[19:04] <ali1234> i doubt ubuntu has more than about 5 million
[19:04] <popey> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Statistics
[19:04] <popey> its way more than 5 million
[19:04] <ali1234> and i doubt fedora has mor than 10% what ubuntu has
[19:04] <popey> probably nearer 10 times that
[19:05] <popey> allegedly
[19:05] <ali1234> and i am talking about people who actually use it as a desktop, not number of installs
[19:05] <diddledan> I wonder what the figures are for day-to-day users of Linux systems on the desktop/laptop actually are
[19:05] <popey> yeah
[19:06] <ali1234> total unique IPs: 1,186,869
[19:06] <ali1234> now divide that by 10 because of dynamic IPs
[19:06] <popey> that seems surprisingly low
[19:06] <ali1234> that's probably in the ballpark
[19:06] <ali1234> not surprising to me
[19:06] <diddledan> divide by ten? that's a rather round fudgefactor
[19:06] <popey> 9.5
[19:07] <ali1234> SIG FIGS!
[19:07] <popey> wut
[19:07] <ali1234> let's say divide by 7 based on 24 hour lease time
[19:07] <popey> my ip hasn't changed for months
[19:07] <ali1234> dyndns pool is usually at least 254 addresses
[19:08] <popey> neither have most people on VM
[19:08] <ali1234> then subtract all the servers...
[19:08] <popey> but i dont run fedora ☻
[19:08] <diddledan> dsl and cable users will likely have pseudo-static IPs because they keep a router constantly connected
[19:09] <davmor2> popey: mine hasn't changed for a while I know this cause dyndns were complaining that I hadn't made contact for a month :)
[19:09] <ali1234> also, let's not count anyone who didn't install it by choice ie corporate users
[19:10] <diddledan> how many corporate desktops do you think will be forced to run fedora?!
[19:10] <ali1234> according to that page, more than the number of people who got counted twice because of dynamic IPs
[19:11] <diddledan> I think "that page" is pulling things out of it's arse
[19:11] <ali1234> so at least half a million imo
[19:11] <ali1234> yeah me too
[19:13] <ali1234> i don't run fedora but i have installed it in a VM more than once to do one thing that won't work anywhere else
[19:13] <diddledan> OT - I wish I could drive, left my phone(s) at work and now I feel disconnected
[19:13] <ali1234> i'm about to do it again now to test this gnome-terminal nonsense
[19:13] <diddledan> lxc is quite fun for running alien systems with little-to-no overhead
[19:14] <ali1234> but it's not managable
[19:14] <diddledan> I've got Gentoo installed in an LXC container. It doesn't know any different than a bare-metal install
[19:14] <ali1234> virtualbox makes 2 files which you can delete at all
[19:15] <BigRedS> surely it's puzzled by having whatever kernel it's running on?
[19:15] <ali1234> LXC uses a bunch of scripts that need root and do god knows what
[19:15] <BigRedS> or, at least, it knows it's not a gentoo one
[19:15] <ali1234> gentoo doesn't care what kernel you run for obvious reasons :)
[19:15] <ali1234> however, fedora probably does
[19:15] <BigRedS> yeah, but I guess it's aware of that. I just meant to hint at lxc not being full-on virt
[19:17] <diddledan> you're right, lxc is more akin to chroot than it is to virtualisation
[19:17] <diddledan> lxc does allow independant network stacks tho, which is useful
[19:19] <ali1234> is the guy who does those BBC logos in here?
[19:19] <popey> no
[19:19] <popey> well, don't think so
[19:19] <ali1234> they are good but globe needs more polygons
[19:19] <popey> Dave Jeffery
[19:22] <ali1234> hmm shall i mess with gnome-terminal or get on with making my game?
[19:22] <ali1234> i think the answer is clear
[19:23] <ali1234> i should stop procrastinating
[19:24] <ali1234> i need to figure out how to do ogre stencil buffer effects so i can make the track self-intersect
[19:27] <ali1234> http://imagebin.org/257651
[19:27] <ali1234> this is the one thing i can't do yet
[19:42] <popey> ali1234: do you know of any open source 3d gaming engines (like ogra) which would be candidates for porting to Ubuntu (if they're in the repo already,bonus points)?
[19:43] <ali1234> popey: i don't see what you mean
[19:43] <ali1234> if they are already in the repo why would you port them?
[19:43] <popey> well, no x
[19:44] <ali1234> they all use opengl directly
[19:44] <popey> ah ok
[19:44] <popey> are there any that have a good list of games already developed?
[19:44] <ali1234> but you;d want to look at ogre, crystalspace, saubraten, q3a
[19:44] <popey> i.e. would be candidates
[19:44] <ali1234> no
[19:44] <popey> (for porting and bringing games with them)
[19:44] <ali1234> the only one that has "good" games is ogre, and they are all commercial
[19:44] <popey> commercial is fine
[19:44] <ali1234> btw
[19:45] <ali1234> my game will be mostly static compiled
[19:45] <ali1234> well, it may ship with dynamic libs actually
[19:45] <ali1234> but those libs will be linked against libX11
[19:45] <ali1234> i'm not supporting two different graphics stacks on linux
[19:47] <ali1234> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5665555/
[19:47] <ali1234> this is how torchlight does it
[19:47] <ali1234> (that uses ogre)
[19:47] <ali1234> i just copied what they did
[20:33] <directhex> there aren't really many open source 3d engines in use by real games anyone cares about
[20:33] <mungbean> privilege escalation in rh/centos/SL https://www.centos.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=42827&forum=59
[20:36] <diddledan> unity supports a linux target now (unity3d.com)
[20:37] <diddledan> it's just a shame the ide doesn't work on linux, too
[20:44] <brunogirin> diddledan: one step at a time I suspect :-)
[20:49] <zleap> AlanBell, just wondered if you could advise if the conference pack is still available please ?
[20:49] <zleap> DanS_, good timing that
[20:49] <DanS_> zleap: I try
[20:49] <zleap> :D
[20:49] <DanS_> Early bird catches the worm
[20:50] <ali1234> directhex: to be fair their aren't that many closed source onces that anyone cares about either
[20:50] <zleap> yup
[21:00] <directhex> ali1234, yeah, it seems nowadays there's a lot of per-publisher engines, and not so much the major "independent" middleware. except unrealengine
[21:01] <ali1234> well, there's unity
[21:01] <ali1234> and source
[21:01] <ali1234> but yeah this is exactly what i mean
[21:02] <brobostigon> reckon it is possible, to convert real life person measurements, and impose them into a opensim avatar ?
[21:02] <ali1234> ogre is the only one that is open source and used in commercial games if you don't count ID engines, afaik
[21:03] <brobostigon> onto*
[21:05] <ali1234> also ogre isn't even a game engine, it only does graphics
[21:05] <mungbean> whos gonna be busy tomorrow updating kernels?
[21:09] <mungbean> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/2013/CVE-2013-2094.html
[21:09] <mungbean> wheezy bulnerable too
[21:12] <ali1234> got a tl;dr?
[21:12] <ali1234> how would this be exploited?
[21:15] <mungbean>  https://www.centos.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=42827&forum=59
[21:16] <mungbean> has a prog to vompile
[21:17] <ali1234> url is mangled tho
[21:17] <ali1234> but i found it on google
[21:17] <mungbean> f---
[21:17] <ali1234> " * jewgold to 115T6jzGrVMgQ2Nt1Wnua7Ch1EuL9WXT2g if you insist."
[21:17] <ali1234> HMMMMMMM
[21:18] <mungbean> oh those kids
[21:18] <ali1234> http://blockchain.info/address/115T6jzGrVMgQ2Nt1Wnua7Ch1EuL9WXT2g
[21:18] <ali1234> likely this was destined for an upcoming altcoin
[21:18] <mungbean> whats thart
[21:18] <ali1234> you don't wantto know
[21:19] <mungbean> hack for stealing bc?
[21:19] <diddledan> o_O
[21:19] <ali1234> altcoin is a copy paste of bitcoin source code with a new block chain (ie start from zero)
[21:19] <ali1234> there's about 20 of them
[21:20] <ali1234> nobody has released one with exploits in the source code yet
[21:20] <ali1234> but they will now
[21:21] <mungbean> ok as a trojan?
[21:21] <diddledan> I had a trojan once. it split

[21:21] <mungbean> bahdum chish
[21:22] <mungbean> isnt beauty the eye of the beholder? why is bbc news telling me that a. jolie is one of the worlds most beautiful women?
[21:23] <directhex> otherwise you wouldn't care about what she has to say about cancer
[21:23] <mungbean> i think they mean "considered by some as"
[21:23] <diddledan> have they checked all 7.2Billion people to come to that conclusion?
[21:23] <directhex> ugly mcbutterface's opinions don't matter
[21:23] <directhex> only the beautiful people matter
[21:24] <mungbean> even if 7b people agree, its still subjective
[21:24] <diddledan> I was thinking there might be more beautiful people that are undiscovered in those 7.2b
[21:27] <mungbean> aaron ramsey scored tonight...could be bad
[21:27] <mungbean> every time he scores, a dictator or celebrity dies
[21:28] <diddledan> surely dictators dieing is a good thing, no?
[21:29] <mungbean> xor
[21:30] <mungbean> https://twitter.com/OfficialSamaras/status/315560215716175874/photo/1
[21:31] <diddledan> freaky
[21:35] <KrimZon> are they the only times he scored?
[21:38] <mungbean> yes
[21:38] <mungbean> and 2nite
[21:45] <mungbean> why are ms advertising their os with multi platform angry birds?
[21:54] <AlanBell> hmm, because they are scared of Ubuntu phone - the only bird-free platform?
[21:54] <directhex> heh
[21:55] <directhex> you know the crazy smarphone sales figures these days?
[21:55] <directhex> angry birds is a day-1 install for 50% of them
[21:55] <directhex> a platform with no angry birds is a write-off
[21:57] <AlanBell> I removed it from my phone (and all other games)
[21:57] <mungbean> my son likes it but hes 3
[21:58] <mungbean> he also likes ninja warrior instead of postman pat
[21:58] <AlanBell> I would actually be fine with Ubuntu phone if it makes calls, does ssh and web and gps for maps and bluetooth for audio
[21:58] <AlanBell> and has no apps
[21:59] <directhex> AlanBell, you might be. and so might six, maybe 7 other consumers
[21:59] <directhex> but that won't pay the bills
[21:59] <mungbean> yep
[22:00] <AlanBell> indeed, and I suspect that it won't meet my extensive list of requirements there
[22:01] <mungbean> i imagine ubuntu phone as a niche like nokia 900
[22:02] <AlanBell> niche is good
[22:02] <AlanBell> however I have no idea what niche they are targetting
[22:02] <mungbean> modders?
[22:03] <mungbean> oeople who mught equa;;y install cm?
[22:03] <ali1234> no
[22:03] <ali1234> they are targeting the same niche they are targeting with desktop
[22:03] <ali1234> the self-defining niche of "people who like ubuntu"
[22:05] <AlanBell> nah, that is their userbase, not their target
[22:05] <ali1234> well, any time anyone says they don't like ubuntu the answer is "it's not meant for you"
[22:05] <AlanBell> target is more along the lines of "people who really want an Apple product instead"
[22:05] <ali1234> therefore ubuntu must be designed for people who like ubuntu
[22:09] <AlanBell> I would love it to be more coding/tinkering friendly
[22:09] <AlanBell> as a strategic direction, so including an IDE in the base image and focus on one toolkit like QML
[22:10] <ali1234> meh
[22:10] <ali1234> lets have a desktop that actually renders windows instead of black rectangles first
[22:11] <ali1234> i would probably use unity if it could manage that
[22:11] <ali1234> the newest version in raring is much worse than all previous ones though
[22:11] <mungbean> every linux user i show elementary to is amazed by the speed
[22:11] <ali1234> it has all previous bugs from the past 18 months, plus a whole load of new ones
[22:11] <AlanBell> works for me at the moment, I just want a more deterministic alt-tab switcher
[22:12] <mungbean> turns out people like fast
[22:12] <AlanBell> what is elementary?
[22:12] <ali1234> yeah do you know why elementary is fast?
[22:12] <ali1234> it's because it doesn't use compiz
[22:12] <mungbean> AlanBell: a distro based off ubuntu that uses a different wm
[22:13] <ali1234> can someone try to confirm this please? it's really irritating: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/1174054
[22:13] <lubotu3`> Ubuntu bug 1174054 in unity (Ubuntu) ""Always on top" breaks spread/expose" [Undecided,New]
[22:13] <mungbean> and is v pretty and fast and nicely made
[22:13] <ali1234> will take you about 10 seconds
[22:13] <ali1234> AlanBell: it's just mutter and docky and a nice theme
[22:14] <mungbean> almost , but much more
[22:14] <ali1234> that doesn't really do the theme justice - it is very nice
[22:14] <ali1234> but it is too mac like for me
[22:15] <mungbean> things tend to work as i would intuitively expect without someone telling me
[22:15] <mungbean> i converted old scool fwvm user
[22:15] <ali1234> i have been using computers so long that i now intuitively expect every piece of software to not work at all
[22:15] <ali1234> i am constantly unsurprised
[22:16] <AlanBell> the system that worked the best was riscos on the archimedes where drag and drop from any application to any application just worked
[22:17] <AlanBell> and it was just very consistent
[22:17] <ali1234> that only works if the applications support it though
[22:17] <ali1234> it's not magic
[22:18] <ali1234> also amiga workbench was miles better than risc os. please
[22:18] <AlanBell> I did love my Amiga
[22:18] <ali1234> "every" app had an arexx port. which was like dbus ecxcept 20+ years ago
[22:18] <ali1234> and better
[22:18] <ali1234> and easier to use
[22:24] <ali1234> AlanBell: thanks for testing that bug. i wonder how i could get it added to the unity tests?
[22:25] <AlanBell> talk to balloons
[22:26] <AlanBell> in #ubuntu-quality
[22:37] <ali1234> so how do i format a usb flash drive the ubuntu way?
[22:43] <dwatkins> ali1234: with dd?
[22:43] <ali1234> that's not the ubuntu way
[22:43] <ali1234> also it won't format it it will just wipe it
[22:43] <dwatkins> oh, gparted i guess, then
[22:44] <ali1234> oh. "disks"
[22:44] <ali1234> cool
[22:44] <ali1234> that was easy
[22:44] <ali1234> "Error synchronizing after initial wipe: Timed out waiting for object (udisks-error-quark, 0)"
[22:44] <ali1234> :/
[22:44] <ali1234> i have a quark
[22:45] <dwatkins> is it strange or charmed?
[22:45] <ali1234> i think it's just broken
[22:45] <dwatkins> oh dear
[22:45] <dwatkins> ali1234: did that 'people with blue faces' thing get fixed in the end, by the way?
[22:46] <ali1234> yes, but not by adobe
[22:46] <dwatkins> someone told me it was an NVidia bug, I don't know the 'truth' though.
[22:46] <ali1234> libvdpau put in a patch that detects libflashplayer and swaps the channels
[22:46] <dwatkins> ah ok, fair enough
[22:46] <ali1234> well, there is only one other video card that supports vdpau and it is super rare
[22:47] <ali1234> i never found out if anyone could reproduce with it
[22:47] <dwatkins> I did everything I could to get it escalated, sadly the response was no.
[22:47] <ali1234> it's like a via chrome card or something
[22:47] <ali1234> i hink google have fixed it in pepper flash
[22:48] <ali1234> http://lists.x.org/archives/xorg-announce/2012-September/002066.html
[22:48] <dwatkins> The Linux community has an advantage over large corporations in these kinds of situations.
[22:48] <ali1234> yes
[22:48] <ali1234> we can change the source to work around their bugs
[22:48] <dwatkins> thanks, I'll pass that on and try not to do so in a manner that says "because you refused to, the community fixed it"
[22:49] <ali1234> i'm not sure the current status
[22:49] <ali1234> that post is quite old
[22:49] <dwatkins> I have an AMD card in my desktop, so can't test it.
[22:49] <ali1234> let me check if it is still in there......
[22:50] <ali1234> yep, still there
[22:50] <ali1234> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/~aplattner/libvdpau/commit/?id=ca9e637c61e80145f0625a590c91429db67d0a40
[22:50] <dwatkins> cool
[22:51] <ali1234> could still be an nvidia bug, i don't know
[22:51] <ali1234> i'm not convinced though
[22:51] <dwatkins> fair enough, I wouldn't have a clue, but at least it's fixed/worked-around now.
[22:52] <dwatkins> Unfortunately Linux desktops are just too small a market for me to get much traction with the "users want this to be fixed" line.
[22:53] <dwatkins> I was pleasantly surprised that Steam started porting to Linux, hopefully that will snowball things to get more competition in the market in general.
[22:53] <ali1234> flash is dead anyway
[22:53] <ali1234> i can't really blame them for not fixing it
[22:53] <dwatkins> yeah, everyone (including Adobe) is moving over to HTML5 now, I guess.
[22:54] <dwatkins> I'm a little hesitant about the whole DRM issue, but that's another story.


[12:10] <bigjools> allenap or gmb, easy review for you! https://code.launchpad.net/~julian-edwards/maas/optional-ip/+merge/229439


[03:12] <fareast> Ok I am running linux for the first time in a long time since mandrake and I have this laptop for me dad. Just typing like crazy on irc trying to break in the keyboard that was shipped here from china. Luckily I found me a spare battery from an old craptop that crashed and it was 100% good so I am recalibrating it. As far as a good web radio program do they make any that are easy to use with minimal setup?
[03:13] <fareast> I think if he were to be able to listen to radio stations on this thing he would be incredibly happy.
[03:15] <fareast> So much had to be done to get this thing working again, a new hard drive, a new battery, a new keyboard, a bios update. The list just on and on add linux into the package and you have a good bit of work.
[07:04] <lordievader> Good morning
[10:59] <BluesKaj> Hi folks
[11:37] <markus_d> Hy everyone
[11:37] <markus_d> I try to connect to a vpn network
[11:38] <markus_d> I get this error: the vpn service 'org.freedesktop.networkmanager.openswan' was not installed
[11:38] <markus_d> What can I do?
[11:40] <markus_d> the package network-manager-openvpn is installed
[11:40] <markus_d> So what package do I need to install?
[11:41] <markus_d> I got samba shares working today. So the vpn is my last issue to never need windows again :)
[11:44] <BluesKaj> markus_d, not sure , but strongswan might help
[11:44] <BluesKaj> IPsec protocol vpn?
[11:45] <markus_d> As I see it strongswan needs a certificate file. We have a PSK only
[11:46] <markus_d> We use Sonicwall. No clue if this is ipsec
[11:50] <BluesKaj> this might be relevant https://www.sonicwall.com/en-us/support/knowledge-base/170503424887880
[11:54] <markus_d> I tried with netextender software. The software runs but does not connect. It seems they use 2 difefrent clients. On windows the client we use is named Global VPN client
[12:00] <phoenix_firebrd> where is the kubuntu 18.04 beta 1 iso?
[12:03] <BluesKaj> phoenix_firebrd, https://kubuntu.org/news/kubuntu-bionic-beaver-18-04-beta-1-testing...all you need to do is google it
[12:03] <BluesKaj> https://kubuntu.org/news/kubuntu-bionic-beaver-18-04-beta-1-testing/
[12:28] <phoenix_firebrd> BluesKaj: I already checked the link you gave when I first saw in planetkde.org post. But the iso are missing
[12:29] <phoenix_firebrd> BluesKaj: got it
[12:29] <phoenix_firebrd> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/387/builds/167653/downloads
[12:30] <phoenix_firebrd> BluesKaj: thanks
[12:31] <BluesKaj> phoenix_firebrd, good luck, I'm running it fine here myself
[12:32] <phoenix_firebrd> BluesKaj: you have intel graphics or nvidia or amd?
[12:32] <BluesKaj> nvidia GT520 gpu
[12:33] <phoenix_firebrd> BluesKaj: ok, can you tell me the i965-va-driver package version?
[12:33] <BluesKaj> it's not gamer card, but sufficient for my needs
[12:35] <phoenix_firebrd> BluesKaj: There is a but in the intel va driver version 1.8.x, and in version 2.0.0 vp9 profiles are missing in libva. The problems are gone in 2.1.x. I am eager to know if the current driver version is 2.1.x in 18.04 beta 1
[12:35] <phoenix_firebrd> *bug
[12:37] <BluesKaj> look here, i guess  https://01.org/linuxgraphics
[12:37] <hateball> phoenix_firebrd: https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/i965-va-driver
[12:41] <lordievader> !info i965-va-driver bionic
[12:44] <phoenix_firebrd> BluesKaj, hateball, lordievader thanks
[12:45] <bschindler> Hi - I'm on kubuntu 16.04 and was told that 16.04.4 was released which supposedly contains kernel 4.13 - the auto update however did not suggest this update to me (I'm still on 4.4). Is this update supposed to happen automatically?
[12:46] <hateball> !hwe | bschindler
[12:46] <hateball> I *think* it should happen automatically tho... but if you apply HWE then you get 4.13
[12:47] <bschindler> ok, thx, let me do that then
[13:44] <markus_d> Steam Client is not working on the new kubuntu. Did anybody find a solution for this?
[14:06] <hateball> markus_d: do you mean 18.04? Then support is in #ubuntu+1
[14:19] <markus_d> hateball: I got it working not with the client from their site but with the installed from the distro
[14:20] <hateball> Well distro packages are all that's supported here anyhow
[14:21] <dubis> Hello Kmail search does nt work ?  KMail version 5.2.3 I facing from this problem log times with many version now
[14:42] <dubis> where could I find any help ?
[14:56] <hateball> dubis: well, here, but it is usually quite idle
[14:56] <hateball> dubis: you could also ask over in #kde
[14:56] <hateball> dubis: I personally do not use KMail so I have no help to offer
[15:00] <dubis> @hateball Thaks
[15:01] <hateball> !ask
[15:01] <hateball> hmmm
[15:01] <hateball> !patience
[15:01] <hateball> dubis: there's also those forums ^
[16:14] <Guest22476> Hi guys! How can I integrate am appimage into the menu? I want to find it by typing!
[17:14] <Guest22476> Hi guys! How can I integrate am appimage into the menu? I want to find the appimage by typing!
[19:58] <chelesout> hi all
[19:58] <chelesout> hi brothers, hi sisters, hi ?
[20:26] <zxq9> hi :-)
[22:28] <chaotix> hello.  in dolphin 17.12.2, i changed some of my folder icons using right-click>properties.  now i seem to be unable to undo it, so now the only way those folders' icons can be changed is by using right click>properties.  changing the theme wont work.  how do i revert to the way it was before i did that?
[22:30]  * acheronuk looks
[22:37] <acheronuk> if he had stayed I could have told him to remove the .directory file in the folder


[06:40] <dholbach> good morning
[07:50] <jibel> oSoMoN, hey, until recently (like a week ago) I could save pictures from 500px when the picture was open from the 500px scope but it stopped working. Would you know if it's due to a recent change in the browser or content-hub or it's a limitation introduced on 500px' side? it's on rc-proposed/arale
[07:53] <oSoMoN> jibel, what happens now when you try to save a picture?
[07:55] <jibel> oSoMoN, When I select "Save the picture" in the context menu, it opens the "Ouvrir avec" page and below application there is a message saying: sorry, there is no installed application for the type of content
[07:56] <oSoMoN> jibel, let me test here
[07:56] <jibel> you can install 500px from the store, select any image, tap on open in browser and long press the image to open the context menu
[07:57] <jibel> with flickr some work other don't depending on the sharing policy selected by the uploader
[07:59] <oSoMoN> I can reproduce on my krillin, debugging
[08:02] <oSoMoN> jibel, indeed, that’s a recent regression, and that would be https://bugs.launchpad.net/oxide/+bug/1487090
[08:05] <jibel> oSoMoN, thanks.
[08:16] <zbenjamin> tedg: hey, can you tell me if its the case the upstart sets the PWD variable different to the actual working directory when starting apps?
[08:16] <zbenjamin> +that
[08:20] <Laney> jgdx: you going to take care of getting https://code.launchpad.net/~larsu/gsettings-qt/support-ass/+merge/269045 in? thought something you were working on needed it?
[08:20] <Laney> also, hi!
[08:26] <oSoMoN> jibel, the issue with 500px is that we don’t get a mime type, nor a suggested filename, and the URL doesn’t include an extension, so there’s no way to guess the mime type
[08:27] <ogra_> but what did it do before, when it worked ? :)
[08:28] <ogra_> hardcode ?
[08:28] <jibel> oSoMoN, indeed, it worked a week ago
[08:28] <oSoMoN> ogra_, it didn’t go through the downloadRequested signal, there was a hardcoded path for saving images, so we knew that we were saving an image and we could hardcode it for content hub
[08:28] <oSoMoN> that’s why I said it’s a regression
[08:29] <oSoMoN> I’m looking into fixing it
[08:29] <ogra_> ah, sorry, missed that above
[08:33] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Tuesday, and happy Physical Therapy Day! 😃
[08:50] <jgdx> Laney, hi. I will. Not sure when, though. Will know more this evening.
[08:50] <Laney> jgdx: ok, I'm just checking that it doesn't get lost
[08:51] <lotuspsychje> are there known issues on devel-proposed on nexus7 before login screen it reboots again?
[08:52] <ogra_> oooh i know famous people !
[08:52]  * ogra_ looks at john-mcaleely
[08:52] <ogra_> http://linux.softpedia.com/blog/ubuntu-touch-developer-proposes-64-bit-arm64-images-of-ubuntu-for-phones-491134.shtml
[08:52] <ogra_> :)
[08:55] <zbenjamin> ogra_: do you know maybe if upstart changes the PWD to /home/phablet when stating apps instead of the _actual_ working dir?
[08:56] <john-mcaleely> ooh
[08:56] <john-mcaleely> Mr McAleely
[08:56] <john-mcaleely> very formal#
[08:56] <john-mcaleely> thanks ogra_
[08:57] <ogra_> zbenjamin, depends ... if it uses ubuntu-app-launch it will use the apps workdir, if it is an upstart process run from ~/.init or from the system user session it might do that
[08:58] <zbenjamin> ogra_: started by clicking on the icon.
[08:58] <ogra_> zbenjamin, then it uses ubuntu-app-launch
[08:58] <zbenjamin> ogra_: thing is i try to get a proper profiling with applauncherd.
[08:58] <ogra_> which should wrap all the confinement around it
[08:58] <zbenjamin> ogra_: the ivoker forwards only the PWD env var, which always points to /home/phablet
[08:59] <ogra_> zbenjamin, talk to tedg
[08:59] <ogra_> (once he is up)
[08:59] <zbenjamin> ogra_: ok thanks
[08:59] <ogra_> ubuntu-app-launch surely has ways to inject something
[09:00] <mardy> greyback: hi! I'm encountering a unity8 crash whenever I test the development version of the facebook webapp, and it seems I can reproduce it all the time
[09:00] <mardy> greyback: what logs would you like me to collect?
[09:00] <greyback> mardy: backtrace please
[09:01] <mardy> greyback: the files in /var/crash/ show that the core dump was uploaded; but I don't know where to find it
[09:02] <didrocks> mardy: some trick I learnt recently (and yeah, I agree it's confusing now that whoopsie uploads them instead of apport to launchpad…) is to go to system-settings, privacy, diagnostic
[09:02] <didrocks> mardy: you have a link to see your reported stacktraces
[09:02] <didrocks> (and can share it)
[09:02] <mardy> didrocks: oh, cool!
[09:03] <didrocks> mardy: would be cooler to get a more direct way :p
[09:03] <greyback> yep
[09:03] <greyback> sudo gdbus call -y -d com.ubuntu.WhoopsiePreferences -o /com/ubuntu/WhoopsiePreferences -m com.ubuntu.WhoopsiePreferences.GetIdentifier
[09:03] <greyback> that returns a UUID
[09:04] <greyback> which you can append to https://errors.ubuntu.com/user/ to get all your crash reports
[09:04] <didrocks> ok, that's how it gets the link :p
[09:04] <didrocks> (system-settings)
[09:04] <didrocks> and then, you end up in a beautiful page with only stacktrace ids
[09:04] <didrocks> pick the preferred one :p
[09:05] <mardy> greyback: even better, thanks! Here it is: https://errors.ubuntu.com/oops/55b25b5c-55f4-11e5-be0c-fa163e4ccdf2
[09:06] <mardy> greyback: and the unity8.log: http://paste.ubuntu.com/12312447/
[09:06] <mardy> greyback: it happens right after a trusted session is closed
[09:07] <greyback> mardy: yuk, fail in the renderer. Can you report bug please
[09:08] <mardy> greyback: sure
[09:08] <greyback> thanks
[09:10] <mardy> didrocks: wasn't there a way to convert error reports from errors.ubuntu.com into bugs?
[09:12] <didrocks> mardy: not that I know of, if you disable whoopsie, you can use report-bug and report to launchpad
[09:12] <didrocks> mardy: I don't know what's the state of packages from the overlay ppa, are they retraced? you may have to retrace it yourself rather
[09:13] <didrocks> (installing the dbg pacakges + running gdb)
[09:18] <ncls> the Music app doesn't work anymore on my phone, so after two reboots I uninstalled it and tried to reinstall but is the store down ? can't access to any app
[10:17] <zbenjamin> ogra_: just played around a bit, and the value from getcwd() is indeed different from $PWD
[10:21] <undertasker> I just read this description of an uapp:
[10:21] <undertasker> - Continues playing when the app is in the background or the screen is off.
[10:21] <undertasker> So it is possible to run apps in the background
[10:21] <nhaines> undertasker: no.
[10:22] <undertasker> What mechanism/setting are they using.
[10:23] <ogra_> apps can talk to system services that keep running in the background
[10:23] <ogra_> i.e. a music app can use media-hub ... the app gets stopped but media-hub cares that the music keeps playing
[10:23] <undertasker> Can I make a command line application a service?
[10:24] <undertasker> respectively, do daemons keep running?
[10:24] <ogra_> on a session level (running as the pahblet user)
[10:24] <ogra_> but not on a system level without making the OS writable (and losing upgradeability)
[10:25] <undertasker> Am I the only one that think this is dumb?
[10:25] <undertasker> thinks
[10:25] <ogra_> on a phone ?
[10:26] <undertasker> Well, there are many situations where I want to keep things running, like sshuttle, a SIP client or a mumble client.
[10:26] <undertasker> (Only to name some)
[10:26] <nhaines> undertasker: probably.
[10:27] <ogra_> so write patches for the services to provide these features ... then write apops that use these services
[10:27] <ogra_> *apps
[10:27] <davmor2> ogra_: I prefer apops
[10:27] <majin> Hello i have
[10:27] <ogra_> ok, me too i guess :)
[10:27] <undertasker> I'm a hardware guy, not much of a system coder.
[10:27] <majin> S4 mini GT-I9192 and i want install ubuntu touch
[10:28] <majin> is any way to do this?
[10:28] <ogra_> !devices | majin
[10:28] <ogra_> undertasker, well, then you have to wait til someone else does it or pay someone to do it for you
[10:29] <undertasker> There should be program like daemonize, that can keep every application active and running in the background.
[10:30] <nhaines> undertasker: I disagree.
[10:30] <ogra_> no, there shouldnt
[10:30] <undertasker> Why not?
[10:30] <ogra_> you have very strong constraints on a phone WRT memory and battery life
[10:31] <undertasker> Well, if the user wants to drain his battery, why not letting him.
[10:31] <ogra_> if you allow random apps to drain the battery or eat your ram you are not better than android in the end and your battery life will suck
[10:31] <ogra_> because there is a design that allows the user to do the same without draining the battery
[10:31] <undertasker> Not random apps, only some that the user can start manually, should he need  them.
[10:32] <ogra_> it just requires more work to use it
[10:32] <undertasker> But until everything is available as a service, why not having a workaround?
[10:32] <nhaines> undertasker: because then no one will work on the services.
[10:32] <majin> i read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices my phone is not there. if it port ubuntu touch for S4 mini . Does may some part of my phone don't work like bluetooth or somthing else?
[10:33] <ogra_> majin, most likely ...
[10:33] <davmor2> majin: possible
[10:33] <nhaines> majin: porting is the process of making those things work.
[10:33] <ogra_> thats the meaning of porting ... "make that stuff work" :)
[10:33] <undertasker> Is GPS available as a service? For recording a trail even when the phone is hibernating?
[10:34] <ogra_> 1) make it build 2) make itboot 3) make all devices work on the port
[10:34] <ogra_> undertasker, not yet i think
[10:34] <ogra_> tvoss would know
[10:35] <ogra_> (surely on the list of things)
[10:35] <undertasker> Can I at least create cron jobs?
[10:35] <tvoss> undertasker, yup, on the backlog
[10:35] <majin> my phone has  unoffical cyanogenmod rom . is it enough for start porting or it need offical cyanogemod?
[10:35] <ogra_> majin, perferably AOSP
[10:35] <tvoss> undertasker, apps are not allowed to do that on purpose. Patches to the location service to enable the location service for trusted helpers are very welcome :)
[10:36] <majin> cyanogenmod used AOSP , right?
[10:36] <ogra_> undertasker, not without making the phone wriutable (though i'd consider that a bug, someone would have to file it ... its a one line change to fix it)
[10:36] <undertasker> What's a trusted helper in this context?
[10:37] <ogra_> majin, but they modified it so you will likely hit extra issues you will have to fix ... starting from CM is surely possible but likely more work ... if you can find an AOSP tree that will be easier
[10:46] <popey> ogra_: john-mcaleely what is bug 1437633 blocked on?
[10:46] <ogra_> popey, time
[10:46] <jibel> popey, thanks for the dupe, I oculdn't find it
[10:47] <popey> np
[10:47] <popey> found another while looking
[10:47] <ogra_> popey, i'll try to get to it before next OTA but i really cant promise anything, depnds on how much time snappy leaves me
[10:47] <popey> ogra_: can someone else do it?
[10:47] <ogra_> i guess so
[10:48] <ogra_> all info needed should be in the bug already
[10:51] <john-mcaleely> popey, I don't know
[10:52] <popey> it's a shame to have been broken since forever, especially since it is arguably a security flaw (user says 'no' to send data to us, we ignore it)
[10:52] <popey> s/security/privacy/
[10:54] <tvoss> undertasker, think a component that is triggered by the location service on position updates. The component would only be granted a very limited amount of resources (RAM, CPU) for a very limited amount of time
[10:54] <tvoss> undertasker, but that should enable you to enable GPS logging
[13:09] <tedg> zbenjamin: Yeah, it is set to the directory that the click is installed in.
[13:09] <tedg> zbenjamin: Makes it so that things like "qmlscene foo.qml" work.
[13:09] <zbenjamin> tedg: yeah, so PWD != getcwd right
[13:09] <zbenjamin> $PWD
[13:10] <tedg> I'd have to double check, but I don't think so.
[13:11] <tedg> $PWD I think will always be the user's home directory.
[13:11] <zbenjamin> tedg: well $PWD seems to point to /home/phablet, whereas getcwd() returns the click install path
[13:11] <tedg> It'll be the cwd for upstart
[13:11] <tedg> Yeah, that makes sense to me.
[13:38] <oSoMoN> dpm, do we have documentation on how to enable click apps for translation, and more specifically on where the mo files should be located in the package for the UITK to find and use them?
[13:42] <dpm> oSoMoN, https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/apps/qml/tutorials/internationalizing-your-app/
[13:43] <dpm> davidcalle, looking at that doc, "Translations are included in your click package in data/share/locale//LC_MESSAGES/.mo" - is this correct? Are they not usually directly under share/locale/.. ?
[13:46] <oSoMoN> dpm, yeah, that’s what I was going to say, from looking at apps installed on my device, the mo files are either under share/locale/ or under $domain/locale/
[13:46] <davidcalle> dpm, sure, but in a click package this path is in data/
[13:46] <oSoMoN> and I suppose there is a missing "$lang" token in the path
[13:47] <davidcalle> Though, I understand how this can be misleading
[13:47] <dpm> ok, thanks for checking davidcalle. oSoMoN, yeah, the doc is definitely missing the $LANG bit
[13:47] <davidcalle> oSoMoN, looks like the cms stripped it, indeed
[13:47] <dpm> yeah
[13:47] <oSoMoN> davidcalle, I think this is misleading, as it says "in your click package"
[13:48] <oSoMoN> in your click package != in your source tree, right?
[13:48] <davidcalle> oSoMoN, and click package != project folder, if you unpack a click, it's in data/
[13:51] <davidcalle> oSoMoN, but on the other hand, the fact that's in data/ is just an implementation detail of click packaging. Should be removed from the doc, indeed.
[13:52] <oSoMoN> davidcalle, yes, I think so
[13:56] <davidcalle> dpm, oSoMoN, fixed, thanks!
[13:57] <oSoMoN> davidcalle, that was fast, thanks!
[14:02] <dpm> thanks oSoMoN, davidcalle!
[14:13] <ogra_> Stskeeps, are you guys copying us ?!? .... (our phone project lead left a week ago)
[14:22] <Stskeeps> ogra_: naah
[14:22] <Stskeeps> ogra_: i'm more amazed this stuff becomes news articles
[14:22] <ogra_> hah, yeah, i was too whe christian left
[14:22] <ogra_> *when
[14:22] <Stskeeps> ogra_: people move on, i'd be more worried if a large portion of engineers left :)
[14:22] <ogra_> and everybody is like: "they are doomed !!!"
[14:23] <ogra_> we should spread rumours about that secret managers exchange programme between jolla and canonical ;)
[14:23] <Stskeeps> ogra_: somebody already started that, claiming marc will join ubuntu touch..
[14:23] <popey> hah
[14:24] <ogra_> lol+
[14:32] <morphis> Stskeeps: :D
[15:25] <ncls> is the Ubuntu App Store down ?
[15:26]  * beuno checks
[15:27] <beuno> ncls, doesn't look like it
[15:27] <beuno> what are you seeing?
[15:28] <ncls> beuno: well ... nothing, when I click on it from the menu, it makes the orange bottom loading bar move for a minute, then nothing
[15:28] <ncls> same thing when I search for something
[15:29] <beuno> alecu, ^
[15:29] <ncls> My Music app stopped working (didn't play audio when I clicked on the play button) so I uninstalled it, but I can't get to install it again since the store is unavailable
[15:29] <ncls> (I know this might not solve the problem, but rebooting the phone didn't work either)
[15:29] <beuno> ncls, the servers are all up, so it might be local?
[15:30] <ncls> beuno : well, maybe, but I tried to access it from different places
[15:31] <beuno> ncls, does this URL work for you?  https://search.apps.ubuntu.com/api/v1/click-metadata?name=com.ubuntu.developer.alecu.qr-code&name=com.ubuntu.developer.mzanetti.ubuntu-authenticator
[15:31] <ncls> from my phone ?
[15:32] <beuno> ncls, start from your computer
[15:32] <beuno> if they're on the same network
[15:32] <ncls> yes it does work from the computer, but my phone is not on the wifi
[15:32] <beuno> ncls, so that's the host that your phone would be accessing
[15:33] <beuno> can you try putting your phone on the wifi, test again?
[15:33] <ncls> beuno: I'll try with 3G first, as I don't have the WiFi code
[15:33] <beuno> sure
[15:34] <ncls> it does work
[15:34] <ncls> I mean, I get to the same Array of JSON objects
[15:34] <ncls> beuno:
[15:34] <popey> bfiller: did you see the mail to the list and bug 1492551? Should we crank a build and put in the store to replace the broken one?
[15:35] <popey> bfiller: I realise you guys are pretty busy, I'm happy to help here.
[15:35] <beuno> ncls, so it's likely some service on the phone has a problem
[15:35] <beuno> which I need to defer you to alecu or dobey
[15:37] <ncls> beuno: ok thank you for your help
[15:39] <bfiller> popey: havent' seen that
[15:39] <bfiller> popey: if you don't mind taking a look that would be great
[15:41] <popey> bfiller: np
[16:11] <marco_g> hi guys, I have a question, what kind of shell Ubuntu Touch use? dash or bash?
[16:16] <ogra_> marco_g, the same setup thats used on desktops
[16:17] <ogra_> (dash as /bin/sh ... bash for login shells)
[16:17] <marco_g> dash it's right?
[16:18] <ogra_> for /bin/sh, yes
[16:19] <ogra_> if you log in via terminal-app, USB or ssh the login shell for the user is bash though
[16:21] <marco_g> ok, thank you :)
[16:36] <n1ghtmar3> hi
[16:36] <n1ghtmar3> how are you all/
[16:37] <popey> Great.
[16:37] <n1ghtmar3> i wanted to ask if any of you folks ever tried to install ubuntu touch on chinese android device
[16:38] <n1ghtmar3> specs 512 ram , meditaek mtk652 1.3 ghz quad core
[16:39] <popey> not personally.
[16:39] <n1ghtmar3> ok. so do you know anyone who has ever tried
[16:40] <n1ghtmar3> hello?
[16:47] <jpconklin> I am trying to put Ubuntu onto my dell smartphone.
[16:47] <jpconklin> any suggestions?
[16:50] <popey> jpconklin: dell make phones?
[16:51] <beuno> jpconklin, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Porting
[17:06] <popey> JamesTait: is there an api to get app stats (downloads / users) from the click store?
[17:06] <rschroll> Question on app review: How long show I expect to wait for a manual review of an app that failed the automated review?
[17:06] <rschroll> jdstrand, perhaps you know ^^
[17:07] <popey> JamesTait: specifically, the raw data used for the graphs for individual apps
[17:09] <JamesTait> popey, I'm not sure, off the top of my head, where that data comes from. Let me see what I can figure out.
[17:09] <popey> JamesTait: thanks, i couldn't find anything in the docs at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AppStore/Interfaces/
[17:10] <jdstrand> rschroll: it can be fast or not. Ie, there is no typical-- the processes surrounding manual reviews are not well-defined because there isn't staff to do them and because they shouldn't be necessary (ie, we don't want to reinvent myapps)
[17:11] <jdstrand> that said, I've been asked to look at your app
[17:12] <jdstrand> I can take a look now
[17:12] <stakewinner00> How can I completely remove some app? I have deleted some apps but still consume memory. And sudo apt-get autoclean don't works.
[17:13] <popey> stakewinner00: on ubuntu phone?
[17:13] <stakewinner00> yep, ubuntu phone
[17:13] <stakewinner00> bq e4.5
[17:13] <popey> stakewinner00: a few apps are baked into the read-only image so aren't easily removed I'm afraid
[17:13] <popey> any in partiular?
[17:14] <stakewinner00> popey, Some default apps like flickr, yelp and a game called "Cut The Rope Free", etc.
[17:15] <popey> yeah, I don't think you can fully remove them
[17:16] <stakewinner00> ok.
[17:17] <rschroll> jdstrand: Thanks.  I've had review requests get lost before, so I just wanted to make sure that wasn't happening again.
[17:18] <JamesTait> popey, it doesn't look like it's surfaced in an API currently, no.
[17:18] <popey> JamesTait: :(
[17:18] <popey> JamesTait: should I file a bug? Would be nice to be able to graph that locally
[17:19] <JamesTait> popey, would you mind? I can't make any promises as to priority, but at least then it's tracked and people can +1 it.
[17:19] <popey> ok
[17:20] <popey> JamesTait: where should I file it please?
[17:21] <JamesTait> https://bugs.launchpad.net/software-center-agent/+filebug
[17:21] <popey> kk thanks
[17:25] <popey> JamesTait: done, and spammed around developers to get them to "me too" it ;)
[17:26] <JamesTait> Thx. ☺
[17:29] <jdstrand> rschroll: hrm, you've hit a rather difficult area
[17:29] <jdstrand> dpm: hi! can you take a look at my comments in https://myapps.developer.ubuntu.com/dev/click-apps/3405/ ?
[17:30] <dhbiker> hi there... just curious.. is it encouraged to hack around core apps like music ? or is it considered blasphemy ? :D
[17:30] <jdstrand> dpm: https://myapps.developer.ubuntu.com/dev/click-apps/3405/feedback/ is a better link. I think this is going to require some discussion
[17:31] <dpm> dhbiker, it's very much encouraged! https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/community/core-apps/
[17:31] <ahayzen> dhbiker, please hack away :-) pages for the core apps are here https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/community/core-apps/
[17:31] <jdstrand> meh, several typos. I wish there was an 'edit' field in the review page :)
[17:31] <dpm> jdstrand, give me a minute and I'll look into it
[17:31] <ahayzen> ...damn dpm beat me ;-)
[17:31] <jdstrand> dpm: it is problem something you are going to want to discuss with your team
[17:31] <jdstrand> probably*
[17:32]  * jdstrand did not sleep enough last night
[17:32] <dhbiker> dpm, ahayzen ty already found it .. :D  starting to join the community after 3 weeks of usage to get comfortable with the OS :)
[17:32]  * dpm hugs ahayzen :)
[17:32] <popey> \o/
[17:32] <popey> I love it when people drop by offering to contribute, and the author of the app happens to be here :)
[17:32] <dhbiker> lol :D
[17:33] <dhbiker> well i like the OS
[17:33] <popey> reminds me, I need to change that file manager icon on the site!
[17:33] <dhbiker> was quite worried that i bought the wrong device after N900 but apparently i didn't :D
[17:33] <dhbiker> didn't really like ubuntu till this ubuntu touch
[17:34] <dhbiker> unity + keyboard and mouse... errr xD
[17:34] <rschroll> jdstrand: Thanks for looking it over.  For now, I'll submit it to the open app store.  Feel free to follow up if you need more info or would like me to consider proposed solutions: rschroll at gmail.
[17:34] <dpm> thanks for the understanding rschroll
[17:36] <jdstrand> yes
[17:36] <jdstrand> thank you
[17:38] <rschroll> Well, I'm not sure I understand some of the confinement decisions, but I'm willing to accept them.
[17:39] <rschroll> Philosophic difference only, I suppose.
[19:00] <dhbiker> if you enable dev mode on the device... do you still get the updates ? (arale rc proposed)
[19:02] <mcphail> dhbiker: yes
[19:04] <mcphail> dhbiker: OTA updates will come unless you make / read/write by a particular incantaion, thereby creating a dotfile which blocks updates (afaik)
[19:05] <dhbiker> ah. k
[19:10] <mcphail> I see Apple may be planning to allow ad-blockers for the browser on iOS. Would be nice to see that on Ubuntu. It would save me hacking my /etc/hosts file
[19:15] <dhbiker> haha
[19:16] <dhbiker> what base is the browser from ?
[19:16] <mcphail> dhbiker: on Ubuntu? the renderer is a fork of chromium
[19:17] <dhbiker> oh nice
[19:35] <popey> mcphail: dhbiker it doesn't block updates if you go RW
[19:35] <popey> it just isn't a tested scenario, so could break
[20:28] <mcphail> popey: I think "phablet-config writable-image" disables updates (if that method is still supported)
[20:31] <steve____> is there native support for wifi hotspot on ubuntu touch?
[20:32] <mcphail> steve____: yes
[20:33] <steve____> thanks
[20:47] <fire_mx4> hi chat
[20:48] <fire_mx4> anyone available here?
[21:11] <popey> mcphail: nope
[21:18] <mcphail> popey: might be best to remove the information from the wiki, then, on https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/start/ubuntu-for-devices/installing-ubuntu-for-devices/
[21:19] <popey> hmmm
[21:19] <popey> thanks
[22:45] <Inoki> Guys I have a problem. Can't transfer files between my E5 and Ubuntu 14.04.2
[22:46] <Inoki> I connected the phone via USB 3.0 and now it sees it, but cannot transfer anything.
[22:47] <grrrrrrr> what happens?
[22:48] <Inoki> It says: libmtp error:  Could not send object info.
[22:49] <Inoki> Does the same with dev mode on.
[22:49] <Inoki> And the screen is not locked.
[22:52] <grrrrrrr> Do you use banshee media player on your desktop?
[22:53] <Inoki> Nope, Quod Libet.
[22:53] <Inoki> I just tried sudo apt-get -y install libmtpserver-dev mtp-server, but it doesn't seem to do anything.
[22:54] <grrrrrrr> Google suggests banshee mtp can interfere with nautilus mtp. Maybe quod libet does the same?
[22:55] <Inoki> I have no idea... but stuff like this shouldn't create issues... Ubuntu not being able to connect to Ubuntu...
[22:55]  * grrrrrrr shrugs
[22:56] <grrrrrrr> MTP really needs to die
[22:59] <Inoki> Not even sudo apt-get install mtpfs helps...
[23:00] <JanC> mtp-server sounds like you want to be an MTP-device yourself
[23:01] <grrrrrrr> does mtp work with android phones?
[23:01] <Inoki> It did, but I don't have one here.
[23:01] <JanC> I'm sure they support MTP somehow
[23:01] <grrrrrrr> did it work before or after you installed quod libet?
[23:02] <JanC> e.g. to print
[23:02] <popey> grrrrrrr: I don't have a 14.04 system handy, but it should work...
[23:02] <popey> I am on 15.10 and it works fine
[23:02] <Inoki> Android phones always worked.
[23:02] <popey> oops, wrong person :)
[23:03] <popey> Inoki: do you use nautilus?
[23:03] <Inoki> popey: Yup, it's basically a fresh install of 14.04.2 due to kernel 3.16, but terminal shows 14.04.3 after recent updates. Fully up-to-date.
[23:03] <popey> hmmm
[23:04] <popey> Inoki: http://askubuntu.com/questions/602488/ubuntu-phone-bq-aquaris-e4-5-usb-problem
[23:07] <M4rtinK> well, the biggest problem with MTP is that it is broken by design
[23:08] <grrrrrrr> yep
[23:08] <M4rtinK> it does not even support seek/random access !
[23:08] <Inoki> Ok, this is odd,
[23:08] <Inoki> When I run lsusb I can't see the phone
[23:09] <Inoki> lsusb
[23:09] <Inoki> Bus 002 Device 005: ID 0cf3:3004 Atheros Communications, Inc.
[23:09] <Inoki> Bus 002 Device 003: ID 5986:0652 Acer, Inc
[23:09] <Inoki> Bus 002 Device 002: ID 0438:7900 Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.
[23:09] <Inoki> Bus 002 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub
[23:09] <Inoki> Bus 001 Device 004: ID 0bda:0129 Realtek Semiconductor Corp. RTS5129 Card Reader Controller
[23:09] <Inoki> Bus 001 Device 006: ID 046d:c246 Logitech, Inc. Gaming Mouse G300
[23:09] <Inoki> Bus 001 Device 005: ID 05e3:0608 Genesys Logic, Inc. USB-2.0 4-Port HUB
[23:09] <Inoki> Bus 001 Device 002: ID 0438:7900 Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.
[23:09] <Inoki> Bus 001 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub
[23:09] <Inoki> Bus 004 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0003 Linux Foundation 3.0 root hub
[23:09] <Inoki> Bus 003 Device 009: ID 2a47:2008
[23:09] <Inoki> Bus 003 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub
[23:09] <M4rtinK> and not to mention all the "media player" baggage it has been lugging around from its origins
[23:09] <M4rtinK> so my recommendation is to not even *think* about using MTP
[23:09] <M4rtinK> it's such a waste of time
[23:09] <popey> 2a47:2008 is the phone
[23:09] <M4rtinK> just setup usb networking or even wifi connectivity
[23:10] <Inoki> M4rtinK: yeah, I uninstalled all three packages suggested ;)
[23:10] <M4rtinK> and use sshfs/scp
[23:10] <Inoki> popey: but why doesn't it say...
[23:10] <M4rtinK> I have been using this setup from the beginning with exactly 0 issues :)
[23:10] <popey> because the phone came out after the database of USB IDs on your pc
[23:10] <popey> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/usbutils/+bug/1421740
[23:11] <popey> http://askubuntu.com/questions/602760/ubuntuphone-does-not-connect-to-ubuntu-desktop looks good
[23:11] <popey> via https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ciborium/+bug/1434992
[23:13] <Inoki> Trying the PPA popey
[23:15] <grrrrrrr> Any news on a commercial tablet device yet?
[23:17] <Inoki> Still doesn't work popey
[23:18] <Inoki> Could it be because I removed libmtpserver-dev mtp-server mtpfs before?
[23:18] <Inoki> I tried those packages before but they didn't help, so I removed them.
[23:31] <Inoki> Anyway, thanks for the help guys, gotta run, late here
[23:42] <Sleep_Walker> hi
[23:42] <Sleep_Walker> thanks for hotspot functionality :)
[23:43] <Sleep_Walker> question: can I somehow rise volume during call to higher value than using buttons on the side?
[23:49] <Sleep_Walker> it seems that changing volume through ssh during the call on both sinks has no effect


[06:32] <anrah> hello! Is there a way to deploy bundle using local repository on Juju 2.0
[06:32] <anrah> apparentely juju-deployer does not work with Juju 2.0
[06:33] <zeestrat> anrah: Do you mean local bundle, local charms in the bundle or both?
[06:34] <zeestrat> Juju 2.0 just uses "juju deploy" now for everything
[06:34] <zeestrat> Both bundles and charms
[06:36] <anrah> both
[06:37] <anrah> i have set JUJU_REPOSITORY env-variable and trying to deploy my bundle
[06:37] <anrah> ERROR cannot deploy bundle: cannot resolve URL "local:xenial/my-charm-0": unknown schema for charm URL "local:xenial/my-charm-0"
[06:39] <zeestrat> I haven't used the env-variables a lot, however when I point to local charms in the bundle I use "charm: /dir/to/charm"
[06:39] <zeestrat> Then when deploying a local bundle, "juju deploy ./name-of-bundle.yaml"
[06:41] <anrah> right, I'll try that
[06:41] <anrah> As in 1.25 juju-deployer was way to go after setting JUJU_REPOSITORY env-variable to tell juju where the charms can be found
[06:43] <zeestrat> Gotcha.
[07:06] <kjackal_> Good morning Juju world
[07:35] <anrah> zeestrat: thanks! that works
[07:37] <zeestrat> anrah: Glad to hear. I see that there's no example of a bundle using local charms in https://jujucharms.com/docs/stable/charms-bundles so I'll put in a bug.
[07:38] <anrah> yep, I don't know whether that local:xenial would be better approach than setting the path directly
[13:40] <vmorris> good day all
[13:46] <vmorris> i've got a bunch of maas machines here, and am currently trying to deploy openstack charms to them, but i'm running into a DNS problem (LXD containers will not start also, with similar symptoms)
[13:46] <vmorris> here's a glance error, for example: ERROR glance DBError: (pymysql.err.InternalError) (1130, u"Host 'u33-maas-machine-2.maas' is not allowed to connect to this MySQL server")
[13:47] <vmorris> cinder is seeing similar issues... any idea what's going on?
[13:54] <vibol> hello ?
[13:55] <vmorris> hi
[13:56] <vibol> i just comming to ask what happen if the juju controller node fail ? ... can we install a new controller and connect to and existing bootstrap node ?
[13:56] <vibol> Ohh i'm sorry..
[13:57] <vibol> This is not rute to discuss the Juju Problem here ?
[13:57] <vibol> rude*
[13:57] <rick_h_> vibol: so we suggest you run the controller in HA mode so that you have more than one
[13:57] <rick_h_> vibol: there's a new feature in development that's partially implemented in 2.0 and coming in 2.1 that allows migration of a controller
[13:57] <rick_h_> vibol: but you still need a controller active to perform the migration
[13:58] <rick_h_> vibol: our next step is to allow you to dump your controller in the migration format, so that you could, in theory, import into a fresh controller somewhere like I think you're looking for, but it's not currently available.
[13:58] <rick_h_> vibol: there is a backup/restore function that uses a db dump method right now
[13:58] <vibol> correct me if i'm wrong "juju ensure-ha" is increase availability on bootstrap node only ? not the controller itself ?
[13:58] <rick_h_> vibol: so the bootstrap node is just the first node of the controller
[13:59] <rick_h_> the API server/database store
[13:59] <rick_h_> vibol: enable-ha will add additional api endpoints and replicate the db across the controller nodes
[13:59] <vmorris> rich_h_ I pretty much sorted that problem out from yesterday.. got a new one today :/
[13:59] <rick_h_> vmorris: doh!
[13:59] <vmorris> https://paste.ubuntu.com/23383695/
[13:59] <rick_h_> vmorris: heading into the team standup but will look in a sec
[13:59] <vibol> thank you @rick_h
[14:00] <vmorris> thanks
[14:01] <vibol> Did the juju ha function work well on manual environment ?
[14:06] <vmorris> rick_h_: for when you get back .. here's a longer trace
[14:06] <vmorris> https://paste.ubuntu.com/23383729/
[14:07] <vibol> vmorris are u being using juju in a production ?
[14:07] <vmorris> vibol: it's a large test organization
[14:08] <vibol> do you deploying with maas ?
[14:08] <vmorris> yes
[14:09] <vibol> did you run openstack as well on your testing ?
[14:10] <vmorris> yes, that's my team's primary focus
[14:10] <vibol> ohh.. ! :)
[14:11] <vibol> I'm interest on Ubuntu platform. including maas, juju, ubuntu openstack
[14:11] <vmorris> rick_h_: just some more information: https://paste.ubuntu.com/23383751/
[14:11] <vibol> but it seem i'm low on budget to test and environment.
[14:11] <vibol> and virtual environt work not really good with that
[14:13] <vmorris> i'm using kvm guests in maas.. it's a chore to setup
[14:22] <vibol> I'm sorry vmorris. But did you run both juju and maas on HA environtment ?
[14:26] <vmorris> vibol: no, it's notha
[14:27] <vmorris> not ha*
[14:27] <rick_h_> vmorris: hmm, so this is the charms/relations not playing nice?
[14:27] <vmorris> rich_h_: yes, it seems like the charms are picking up the hostname from the machine their running on, but not being able to resolve this to the DNS server in MAAS
[14:27] <rick_h_> vmorris: oic are these in containers or just the root maas nodes?
[14:28] <vmorris> also, i'm unable to start any LXD containers, for a similar reason i think
[14:28] <vmorris> these are in the root node, i'd put them in containers if i could
[14:28] <rick_h_> vmorris: yea, there's a bug in that which is fixed in the upcoming 2.0.1.
[14:28] <rick_h_> vmorris: we're looking to get that released this week and I'd be curious if that helps you or not
[14:28] <vmorris> this is juju 2.0.1?
[14:29] <rick_h_> vmorris: yes
[14:29] <rick_h_> vmorris: we had a container dns issue with 2.0.0 that we quickly updated and will have in the release this week for 2.0.1 that makes me wonder if this is part of that
[14:30] <vmorris> okay rick_h_, i'll watch for it
[14:30] <vmorris> thanks :)
[14:31] <rick_h_> vmorris: I'm trying to find the issue/fix to see if there's a work around to unblock you here sec
[14:32] <spunge> Hi guys, is there somebody here that could help me out for a sec? I'm running into a issue with juju bootstrap..
[14:34] <magicaltrout> go spunge go!
[14:34] <spunge> im trying to bootstrap juju locally in a lxd container
[14:34] <vmorris> rick_h_: symptoms here https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1632909
[14:34] <mup> Bug #1632909: ceilometer-api fails to start on xenial-newton (maas + lxd) <maas-provider> <uosci> <OpenStack AODH Charm:New> <juju:Triaged> <juju-core:Triaged> <ceilometer (Juju Charms Collection):New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1632909>
[14:34] <vmorris> but don't see any work around
[14:34] <spunge> i'm not using the default lxd bridge
[14:34] <vmorris> ah but that's juu 1.25, oops
[14:34] <spunge> bridge ip is <IP_ADDRESS>
[14:35] <spunge> ERROR cmd supercommand.go:458 new environ: creating LXD client: Get https://<IP_ADDRESS>:8443/1.0: Unable to connect to: <IP_ADDRESS>:8443
[14:35] <spunge> but juju is setting up a client for <IP_ADDRESS>
[14:35] <spunge> how do i point it at the correct ip?
[14:35] <spunge> juju 2.0.0-xenial-amd64
[14:36] <rick_h_> spunge: https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju/+bug/1634744
[14:36] <mup> Bug #1634744:  bootstrap fails with LXD provider when not using lxdbr0 <bootstrap> <lxd-provider> <juju:Confirmed> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1634744>
[14:37] <magicaltrout> they called him rick_h_ they keeper of the launchpad links.... rick hhhhhhh!
[14:37] <rick_h_> vmorris: I think it might be https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju/+bug/1616098
[14:37] <mup> Bug #1616098: Juju 2.0 uses random IP for 'PUBLIC-ADDRESS' with MAAS 2.0 <4010> <cpec> <juju:Fix Committed by dimitern> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1616098>
[14:37] <spunge> Damn, how could i have missed that page :/
[14:37] <spunge> thanks so much!
[14:37] <rick_h_> spunge: np, sorry you're hitting the issue. It's something we need to get working better.
[14:38]  * rick_h_ is an expert in the ways of breaking juju unfortunately :P
[14:38] <rick_h_> well, at least in how users create new ways of using things that don't quite work out yet. :)
[14:39] <magicaltrout> its the laws of programming isn't it. You write a piece of code that you expect to get used in way X, and the user regardless of knoweledge will always use way Y
[14:39] <magicaltrout> its just the rules
[14:40] <rick_h_> we're good at following rules!
[14:41] <vibol> I though everybody comming for maas and juju because openstack
[14:44] <vmorris> rick_h_: i'm not sure that's the same.. I'm getting the IP addresses in the MAAS DNS set properly, but the openstack charms are passing their /etc/hosts (eg. <IP_ADDRESS>) to the mysql relation
[14:44] <vmorris> guessing here, but mysql then sets the permit for <IP_ADDRESS>, and then denies connection from hostname
[14:56] <deanman> rick_h_: Is this container DNS bug also affecting proxy in some way ?
[14:56] <rick_h_> deanman: not that I'm aware of.
[14:58] <deanman> kwmonroe: Unfortunately skipping --development didn't solve my proxy problem. I did see the proper agent version though in the logs compared to previous runs. :-(
[15:02] <deanman> I simply cannot understand why it would not be able to check/download image and boot a new LXD http://paste.ubuntu.com/23382970/
[15:16] <kjackal_> kwmonroe: cory_fu I am almost done for today. Let me know what is there to turn green for tomorrow
[15:18] <kwmonroe> kjackal_: i think we'll be in good shape after the ganglia/rsyslog bits
[15:18] <kwmonroe> but i'll let you know at my eod what's left
[15:20] <kwmonroe> deanman: bummer!!  is there anything in /var/log/lxd/lxd.log that's related to image fetching?  also, can you curl this from you host machine?  https://streams.canonical.com/juju/images/releases/streams/v1/index.json
[15:21] <deanman> kwmonroe: guest machine running bootstrap command or inside the controller running on LXD ?
[15:22] <deanman> kwmonroe: cause it seems first time guest is able to dowload image but subsequent image retrieval operation is iniated inside the LXD controller.
[15:27] <deanman> this is from guest VM ->http://pastebin.com/vRJ0kX1s and this is from inside LXD controller http://pastebin.com/yuhH2wdr
[15:32] <deanman> kwmonroe: this is lxd.log from guest VM -> http://pastebin.com/F1BeksJY and this is the one from inside LXD controller http://pastebin.com/nRF08QXn
[15:34] <kwmonroe> ok deanman, so we're back to super weird.  i have no idea why there would be any difference between a controller container and a charm container :/
[15:34] <kwmonroe> deanman: try this:  juju deploy -m controller cs:xenial/ubuntu
[15:35] <kwmonroe> maybe ^^ that'll tell us if it's a model issue, or a generic unit-spawning issue
[15:35] <deanman> sorry please disregard last logs, it was from a fresh environment where i was trying a different proxy but haven't issued yet a deploy
[15:40] <deanman> kwmonroe: this is lxd.log from LXD controller http://pastebin.com/Jx9jfU8f
[15:40] <deanman> let me remove unit deploy and re-run it with your command
[15:44] <deanman> same behavior, it will try download images at least 3 times and then decides to say state is down and will print this "machine-0: 15:44:04 ERROR juju.provisioner cannot start instance for machine "2": image not imported!"
[15:49] <deanman> brb
[16:35] <bdx> https://www.elastic.co/v5
[16:35] <bdx> its all GA now
[16:35] <rick_h_> bdx: <3 congrats!
[16:35] <bdx> haha
[16:35] <bdx> lazyPower: ^
[16:36] <bdx> they were chasing you guys
[16:36] <rick_h_> bdx: hah, sorry thuoght this was your thing you were working on
[16:38] <bdx> its about to be ... devs over here are abitious to have the new v5 elasticsearch
[16:39] <bdx> geehh, ambitious*
[16:41] <marcoceppi> bdx: we've been re-writing the elasticsearch charm, I can share our initial stuff later this week if you want to help get some testing in
[16:42] <bdx> marcoceppi: that would be awesome
[16:55] <vmorris> bdx: it's about time ... been waiting on that release for awhile :D
[17:41] <lazyPower> bdx ;) yuuuuuup
[18:51] <kwmonroe> hey cory_fu, i'm almost done pushing temp xenial bits, but have a make test error on rsyslog:  http://paste.ubuntu.com/23384895/
[18:51] <kwmonroe> cory_fu: can i mock open differently to get this passing?  here's where the trouble starts:  http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~bigdata-dev/charms/xenial/rsyslog/trunk/view/head:/unit_tests/test_hooks.py#L143
[18:54] <cory_fu> kwmonroe: Hrm.  So, in Python3, f.read() should return a byte string (b'').  I don't see where the test is defining what is returned by the mock open's result's read function, though
[18:55] <cory_fu> kwmonroe: Try changing the mock_open line to mock_open(read_data=b'foo')
[18:57] <kwmonroe> cory_fu: you are the wind beneath my wings.  that worked.. rev'd bundle is on the way.
[20:22] <lucacome> hi, is there a function that watches for new file attached to a charm?
[20:25] <lazyPower> lucacome - in terms of juju resources?
[20:25] <lucacome> yes
[20:26] <lazyPower> lucacome - if so, when you `juju attach` a new resource, it runs upgrade-charm and config-changed
[20:26] <lazyPower> just like you issued `juju upgrade-charm`
[20:27] <vmorris> trying to deploy a charm into lxd where the model has apt-*-proxy and *-proxy set to a custom squid host (ipv4), and seeing something odd...
[20:27] <lazyPower> lucacome if you're looking for examples, we've got some extensive work in the kubernetes charms to handle resource management.
[20:27] <lucacome> uh...didn't know that
[20:28] <lazyPower> lucacome - np, let me fish up a link 1 sec
[20:28] <lucacome> sure
[20:28] <lucacome> thanks
[20:28] <lazyPower> lucacome - https://github.com/juju-solutions/kubernetes/blob/master-node-split/cluster/juju/layers/kubernetes-worker/reactive/kubernetes_worker.py#L41
[20:29] <vmorris> juju.downloader is trying to connect to the api server over ipv6 (this would be okay) but it's going out and hitting my proxy server (not okay)
[20:29] <lazyPower> lucacome - and we handle new resources here: https://github.com/juju-solutions/kubernetes/blob/master-node-split/cluster/juju/layers/kubernetes-worker/reactive/kubernetes_worker.py#L20
[20:29] <lazyPower> vmorris - you'll likely need to set the NO_PROXY model config
[20:30] <vmorris> oh hmm
[20:30] <lucacome> thanks lazyPower
[20:31] <lazyPower> lucacome - no problem :) Happy to help. Let me know how you get along with resources. My team was an early adopter of the feature so we've got your back if you hit a snag. find either myself or mbruzek  or ping the list if we aren't around.
[20:32] <mbruzek> lucacome: hello.
[20:33] <lucacome> hello
[20:34] <mbruzek> lucacome: The TL;DR on resources is we always want the charm to work. So if for some reason the resource is not available the charm should install the apt package (if available) or use status-set to inform the Juju operator what resource is needed.
[20:34] <vmorris> lazyPower: i'm afraid that didn't work, would i need to redeploy the machine to pick up the model config change?
[20:34] <lazyPower> vmorris i think thats the case, but i'm not certain.
[20:34] <lazyPower> kwmonroe - do you know if proxy model-config options are changed post-deployment if they are then registered on the machine?
[20:35] <mbruzek> vmorris: lazyPower: I do think the model-config options are set at deploy time.
[20:36] <lazyPower> mbruzek - i thought that was the case. Thanks for confirming.
[20:37] <vmorris> okay, i added a machine following the change to the model config, having set no-proxy for jujucharms..com but this doesn't seem to help
[20:38] <vmorris> https://paste.ubuntu.com/23385323/
[20:38] <vmorris> the ipv6 address that it's trying to connect to is the lxd host machine, but i'm seeing the http request hit my external proxy server :/
[20:40] <vmorris> i do have the apt-*-proxy and http|https|ftp-proxy options set to that external squid
[20:50] <vmorris> actually, the ipv6 address that the LXD container is trying to connect to get to the API server is the v6 address on one of the juju-controller interfaces, so i guess that's fine... and here's the real strange thing - that address was already automatically in the no-proxy environment variable on the container, so why's it hitting my external squid proxy?
[20:55] <lucacome> I don't understand why the @when_not_installed is triggered 5 times
[20:56] <lucacome> I think I'm missing something...
[20:56] <lucacome> sorry @when_not('packet.installed')
[21:02] <vmorris> so maybe i'm seeing a regression of this issue https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju/+bug/1556207
[21:02] <mup> Bug #1556207: 1.25.4: Units attempt to go through the proxy to download charm from state server <landscape> <juju:Fix Released by dooferlad> <juju-core:Fix Released by dooferlad> <juju-core 1.25:Fix Released by dooferlad> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1556207>
[21:11] <lazyPower> lucacome - a pastebin or link to your code would be helpful
[21:12] <lazyPower> lucacome - that + the output of a "charms.reactive get_states" being run on that unit
[21:16] <vmorris> could it be that juju-downloader worker isn't honoring the no_proxy environment variable when it's ipv6?
[21:50] <cholcombe> seems my wheelhouse has some prereq's that need to get installed before pip3 will work.  Can I though those in the apt dependencies and be assured they'll install before wheelhouse?
[21:57] <cholcombe> i'm going to skip wheelhouse and just use the apt layer instead
[22:37] <lutostag> cholcombe: yes the apt dependencies are force installed before the wheelhouse is installed
[22:38] <cholcombe> lutostag, nice