[10:05] <Unit193> Delta gone in mousepad.
[10:38] <Unit193> https://packages.qa.debian.org/m/mousepad/news/20180607T101941Z.html
[11:06] <Unit193> bluesabre: https://launchpad.net/~unit193/+archive/ubuntu/xfconf/+packages test rebuild against xfconf 4.13
[11:06] <Unit193> My efforts with desktopnova in Debian came through. :P
[11:06] <bluesabre> Unit193: excellent
[11:11] <Unit193> So as noted in -ot, just need a new ristretto, and to patch xfwm4...
[19:22] <Unit193> bluesabre: Talk of xfdesktop release, can we try for that accountsservice patch in?
[20:00] <Unit193> I sync'd mouseie.
[20:27] <flocculant> you got an ie thing at the moment :p
[20:28] <Unit193> New thunar for you in a sec.
[20:28] <flocculant> ooh
[20:28] <flocculant> I guess I can lose the git one then :)


[00:12] <infinity> stgraber: Or maybe you've disappeared, I'll just self-accept. :P
[00:12] <stgraber> infinity: just got back actually
[00:12] <infinity> Oh, hey.
[00:13] <robru> hey, if you guys are in a queue mood, don't accept ubuntu-app-launch just yet. want to get a new image built first ;-)
[00:13] <stgraber> infinity: accepted
[00:14] <infinity> stgraber: Ta.
[00:14] <stgraber> robru: don't worry, it's srcNEW AND a sync, it's way too much trouble to review for me to look into it ;)
[00:15] <robru> stgraber, haha, yeah, the last few srcNEWs I had took about a week each, so I wasn't worried at first. but now you guys are talking about the queues, thought maybe I was racing against the clock here ;-)
[07:09] <pete-woods> hi release folks, I see my HUD SRU upload was rejected, just wondered if anyone knew why, and what I should change?
[07:12] <RAOF> pete-woods: You (or your sponsor) should have got an email with the rejection message.
[07:13] <pete-woods> RAOF: okay, thanks, will try asking him
[07:45] <sil2100> RAOF, pete-woods: we have no rejection message e-mails, the package has been sponsored by the CITrain so essentially the e-mail landed somewhere in some inbox that's inaccessible to anyone
[07:45] <RAOF> Urgh. Yay process.
[07:45] <pete-woods> :D
[07:46] <pete-woods> RAOF: does this mean you have been able to find out why?
[07:46] <pete-woods> or that I have to track down the "rejector"?
[07:46] <RAOF> You have to track down the rejector
[07:46] <sil2100> We will probably have to track down who rejected
[07:51] <infinity> sil2100: Or read the mailbox.
[07:51] <infinity> sil2100: If literally no one is reading that email, that's a massive failure in the citrain process.
[07:51] <sil2100> infinity: we would love to, but not sure who has access to it - I remember didrocks mentioning once that fginther has access to it
[07:51] <sil2100> infinity: right, we know
[07:52] <didrocks> hum? that completely untrue
[07:52] <didrocks> as now the sponsor is the guy pressing the publish button, if it was rejected by an archive admin/SRU team member, he will receive the email
[07:52] <didrocks> or launchpad is buggy otherwise
[07:52] <didrocks> but we made the change for this.
[07:53] <infinity> Both should get the email, probably, but I'd have to refresh myself on the rules of how all that works.
[07:53] <didrocks> sil2100: please, we discussed about it and I did the change for that… Try to remember the discussions we are having
[07:53] <infinity> The bot definitely will get mail still, though, as it's the one doing the actual copy.
[07:54] <sil2100> didrocks: I didn't get any e-mail and never got one, so I thought it was something that hasn't been implemented in LP
[07:54] <didrocks> sil2100: we discussed it 2 weeks ago, on that same very channel, and you were in the discussion
[07:54] <sil2100> didrocks: yes, but it never worked for me, so I thought it wasn't ready
[07:55] <infinity> The copy may have pre-dated that change?
[07:56] <infinity> Oh, not likely, if it was the 0528 build I see in rejected.
[07:56] <sil2100> We made the copy yesterday
[07:57] <didrocks> so, seems to be more on the launchpad side than "a massive failure in the citrain process" as some people jumped into saying that too early
[07:57] <infinity> didrocks: I said that based on sil claiming no one reads the email. :P
[07:57] <sil2100> didrocks: right, but why no one has access to the bot e-mail anyway? Is there some security concerns?
[07:57] <infinity> (Using the ubuntu archive bot in general is problematic there, until we get the email going somewhere more useful than chiark, it's not citrain's fault, per se)
[07:58] <sil2100> (or at least no one from the landing people)
[07:58] <didrocks> sil2100: ask fginther, I'm not the one who created it
[07:58] <sil2100> didrocks: I'll ask him, maybe this can be sorted out somehow in the meantime
[07:58] <infinity> sil2100: There's a massive security concern in giving wide access to email for a bot that's a member of restricted groups, yes.
[07:58] <infinity> sil2100: Since being able to read its email means being able to reset its password.
[07:59] <infinity> And this isn't Francis's bot, the copy was made by ~ubuntu-archive-robot
[07:59] <sil2100> infinity: then maybe at least making an e-mail forward in case of rejections to some landing team members
[07:59] <didrocks> infinity: I guess he's talking about ~ps-jenkins
[07:59] <didrocks> not the archive admin one
[08:00] <infinity> didrocks: Right, we should definitely sort out who's getting mail and why. :P
[08:00] <didrocks> infinity: right, after the sprint, we discussed about a way with Colin, like:
[08:00] <infinity> And yes, some procmail rules on the archive robot to forward known-safe mail to a list would be helpful too.
[08:00] <didrocks> - changelog entry be "lander <lander email>"
[08:01] <didrocks> - sponsored field is the guy pushing the "publish" button
[08:01] <didrocks> so, from what I get, the lander will then get assurely the email, right?
[08:01] <infinity> Who is the "lander" in that context?
[08:02] <infinity> Anyhow, it might be more complicated than that at the LP level.  We'll have to look.  LP tries hard to not spam people without knowing it's mailing the right person.
[08:03] <infinity> (like, if you build a source package changed-by me, signed by you, I shouldn't get mail about it, as there's zero evidence I actually had anything to do with it other than you spoofing my email)
[08:03] <didrocks> infinity: the lander is the guy telling "I've done the testing, sorted out the MPs and take responsability for that landing"
[08:03] <didrocks> (most of the time, it's the tech lead of a team or the manager in the touch context)
[08:05] <didrocks> infinity: the "sponsored" at least should receive it IMHO (the extra field I'm using now in the copy context). We made the change for that, maybe it's falling into the rule you are describing?
[08:05] <pete-woods> so can anyone tell me who I should expect to have the email? mhr3 is the one who clicks the build button for me, but I don't know who in CI clicked the publish button
[08:05] <infinity> Yeah, we'll have to look into it when I'm not passing by a computer at 2am between bed and the washroom.
[08:07] <pete-woods> is there a log of who accepted / rejected stuff maybe?
[08:07] <infinity> pete-woods: If it was rejected yesterday, it was almost certainly stgraber, he was on a roll.
[08:09] <pete-woods> infinity: thanks, I guess I'll have to wait for Canada tz
[08:10] <infinity> didrocks: I'm not sure what the right answer actually is for who should get mailed, versus how we protect against backscatter.  This wasn't something we had to think about before bots started doing copies, as the "signer" was always the right answer.
[08:10] <infinity> didrocks: (And the "signer" is the only person you can guarantee actually was involved in the upload, and thus can't complain about being spammed)
[08:11] <didrocks> infinity: that's a fair question and something to consider for sure, indeed.
[08:11] <infinity> didrocks: But perhaps a compromise would be to allow people with archive permissions (as the ubuntu-archive robot has) to spoof signer with the sponsored-by field or something.
[08:11] <didrocks> yeah, we can "trust" more those special signers
[08:17] <infinity> We'd probably want a separate set-signer attribute, I guess, so all sponsored uploads by all AAs don't suddenly get incorrectly signed.
[08:17] <infinity> (ie: if I sponsor an upload, it should be signed by me)
[08:18] <infinity> wgrant: Can you have a ponder at backscroll and see what you make of it?
[08:18] <didrocks> yeah, just tell me if I need to change anything, but I guess the correct behavior is the correct one (+ eventually the change discussed with colin)
[08:20] <didrocks> sil2100: do you feel/want to implement (no rush) the "changelog entry ends with the first lander name and email instead of ps-jenkins"? It should be < 7 lines in cu2d?
[08:23] <sil2100> didrocks: sure :)
[08:34] <wgrant> infinity, didrocks: "with archive permissions"?
[08:35] <wgrant> I can create another archive and give myself permissions on that just fine.
[08:35] <infinity> wgrant: As in, AA permissions on the target archive.
[08:35] <infinity> wgrant: But good point, one could create a PPA and use that to spam people.
[08:36] <wgrant> We may just have to bite the bullet and stab people who abuse the field.
[08:36] <wgrant> But people really like abusing Launchpad features, and we can never win.
[08:36] <wgrant> We see a similar problem with Debian people.
[08:37] <wgrant> if we don't attribute them when their packages are copied into Ubuntu, they're all like "grrr why you steal my work without attribution ubuntu is evil die die"
[08:37] <infinity> wgrant: We've done so very well up until now at not mailing people we shouldn't be, would be a shame to break that.
[08:37] <wgrant> If we do, the other half are like "grrrrrrr i hate ubuntu, ubuntu must die die die, i don't participate in ubuntu""
[08:37] <wgrant> We sort of need some way for people to opt into attribution/spam from an archive/distro.
[08:37] <wgrant> But that's hard.
[08:38] <infinity> wgrant: But yeah, it would be hard to accidentally spoof the signer if it's a distinct field, so it could only suffer from intentional abuse, not accidents.
[08:38] <wgrant> That's true.
[08:38] <wgrant> Most of the abuse we've seen in the past has been Changed-By/Maintainer.
[08:38] <wgrant> So possibly accidental.
[08:40] <infinity> And there's no need for, say, copy-package or syncpackage to implement the feature, as if you're a human doing a sync/copy, you ARE the signer, full stop.
[08:41] <infinity> So, it's really a case of "people abusing it would have had to write their own API client to do so", rather than "Joe Developer may have screwed up".
[08:41] <wgrant> Yeah
[08:41] <infinity> That could be enough assurance for me that any abuse would just be a clear TOS no-no, plus pretty unlikely to happen anyway.
[08:41] <wgrant> Heh, you clearly don't have much experience with some of our special users.
[08:42] <infinity> Well, there are much easier ways to spam/annoy people with much more interesting emails than to go to effort to create upload backscatter intentionally.
[08:42]  * infinity shrugs.
[08:43] <infinity> I'm not sure I see a better way out of this, other than giving a bot super-amazing permissions to be even scarier than normal AAs.
[08:43] <infinity> Which seems like a poor design decision, not to mention a pain.
[08:44] <wgrant> Indeed.
[08:44] <wgrant> So, we have a few fields. We should define who should receive which emails in which circumstances.
[08:46] <infinity> Well, I'm not positive how it works currently, but my gut says it's always the signer who gets everything.
[08:47] <infinity> ie: the person who signed the .changes or initiated the sync (which is morally equivalent)
[08:47] <infinity> So, spoofing the signer perhaps implies that you're overwriting whatever field that is.  uploader?
[08:48] <infinity> Which then leads to the "hey, people pressing that button in CI really need to have upload rights to the package" argument before the DMB lynches us.
[08:48] <infinity> And also means that the queue items would no longer unhelpfully say "synced by Ubuntu Archive Robot", but instead say "synced by Joe B Developer".
[08:52] <infinity> And yes, that option would have to be restricted to people with AA rights on the target archive, cause otherwise any old person could spoof a package signed by anyone else, which seems just fundamentally wrong (again, ignoring that anyone could do this in a PPA, which makes it all fall apart a bit...)
[08:52] <infinity> Hrm.
[08:52]  * ogra_ would already be happy if it could automatically list packaging changes in the changelog, regardless who owns the change/upload in the end
[08:53] <ogra_> since most of these people are upstreams, not packagers such info usually gets forgotten or never shows up
[08:53] <ogra_> and its a pain having to dig into the source just for that
[08:56] <infinity> wgrant: Maybe I'm overthinking the PPA impact.  My concern was audit trails if someone succesfully spoofs another uploader, but since this can't happen on a source upload, only a copy, the original will always be correct, if you trace far enough back.
[09:25] <cjwatson> infinity,didrocks: the work I did in LP was specifically to ensure that *errors* (that is, copies failed because internal explosion) went to the sponsor of the copy
[09:25] <cjwatson> there's very likely additional work needed to ensure that *notifications* (e.g. rejections) go to the sponsor
[09:29] <cjwatson> infinity: there's nothing about this in ~ubuntu-archive-robot's mailbox, FWIW
[09:29] <infinity> cjwatson: Neat.
[09:29] <cjwatson> if somebody wants to set up a target list and give me a set of procmail rules then I'll gladly install them
[09:36] <infinity> cjwatson: We probably should move it to using<EMAIL_ADDRESS>and get IS to set up a real account for that in the procmailers group, instead of having mail from a key infrastructure piece hosted on chiark. :)
[09:36] <infinity> cjwatson: But not a ticket I feel like filing right now.  I'm going to try to sleep again.
[09:50] <sil2100> cjwatson: ah, thanks for the info!
[11:55] <zequence> infinity: I readded yesterdays commits, with a couple of fixes. Tested locally, and seemed to work.
[11:57] <zequence> cjwatson: infinity: I'd very much like to have a new ISO built for us. The changes in our seeds probably gives a hint.  I've looked in other flavor seeds without getting less confused, just noticing that different seeds are done differently.
[11:58] <zequence> The idea is we don't ship our multimedia metas on the smaller ISO (cd-live), so not ubuntustudio-audio, -video, -graphics, -publishing and -photography
[11:59] <zequence> Later, I'll create a plugin for ubiquity that allows one to install those over a network connection. So, this CD would be a sort of netinstall image for us.
[11:59] <zequence> ..but, with the possibility to do some simple testing - which is why we want a live CD
[12:00] <zequence> Anyway, I'd appreciate any help we could get on getting this to work. I've done as much as I can understand right now.
[12:00] <zequence> Hard to find good docs on this stuff, but may be I'm not looking in the right places
[12:08] <jpds> So, can someone figure out why ima-evm-utils is still in NEW after about a month now?
[12:09] <seb128> jpds, it's easy to figure out "nobody has free slot to review NEW"
[12:09] <jpds> seb128: Looks quite empty otherwise: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/utopic/+queue
[12:10] <seb128> jpds, not so much got uploaded, and some review happen when there is pushing/things blocked
[12:10] <seb128> so I guess nobody nagged about ima-evm-utils/it didn't get flagged as blocking work
[12:10] <seb128> so didn't raise enough in the priority list to get worked on
[13:06] <ogra_> hmm, i see no valid reason why ubuntu-touch-meta, ubuntu-session and the rest of the ubuntu-app-launch landing are still stuck in -proposed
[13:08] <ogra_> seems all autopkgtests passed fine
[13:09] <cjwatson> ogra_: see my comment in #ubuntu-ci-eng
[13:09] <cjwatson> they need a manual hint but I wanted click to land first
[13:09] <cjwatson> manual hint just because the autohinter isn't smart enough to notice the relationship between the multiple source packages involved
[13:09] <ogra_> ah, thanks i didnt realted that to the silo number :)
[13:09] <ogra_> *relate
[13:09] <cjwatson> usually it manages it but sometimes it needs help
[13:11] <cjwatson> so I have the hint prepared but I'll wait for click to get through
[13:28] <stgraber> infinity, pete-woods, sil2100: just replied in #ubuntu-ci-eng, I rejected due to a bunch of changes in there not having bug references. And yes, it's a massive fail if those rejection e-mails don't get to anyone...
[13:30] <pete-woods> stgraber: if I indent the bullet points will that count? I was just trying to describe the fix in more detail (as it got rejected for that last time)
[13:31] <cjwatson> The previous rejection wasn't because there wasn't enough detail, it was because the changelog literally didn't even slightly match the change
[13:31] <cjwatson> (And, indeed, contained no (relevant) bug references)
[13:31] <cjwatson> What we're doing is downloading the source package in question and debdiffing it against what's currently in trusty-updates
[13:33] <cjwatson> The change now at least seems to match up, which is better than before
[13:33] <cjwatson> But I expect stgraber has reviewed it a bit harder than my skim-read
[13:34] <cjwatson> Just wanted to clarify the reason for the *previous* rejection
[13:34] <pete-woods> cjwatson: the problem is I was told to make the diff against what had got released, not against what was in proposed
[13:34] <pete-woods> so that's why the original changelog looked like that
[13:35] <pete-woods> I'm just trying to satisfy everyone's requirements here
[13:35] <cjwatson> I think that's not really good practice unless you're actually discarding all the previous work and effectively rebranching from the version in trusty
[13:35] <cjwatson> Which would be pretty unusual
[13:35] <cjwatson> I don't know who told you to do that
[13:35] <stgraber> for anyone interested, the debdiff is: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7587535/
[13:35] <cjwatson> This way is definitely more like what the SRU team would normally expect
[13:37] <stgraber> I'm having an hard time matching the diff with the changelog which is usually a pretty bad sign...
[13:37] <cjwatson> I wasn't sure, would probably have gone off to check the bzr history if it had been me reviewing it
[13:39] <pete-woods> apart from the missing bug references, the changelog describe what's changed to me at least
[13:40] <pete-woods> I was just trying to describe what I did to prevent the crash introduced in the previous release
[13:40] <stgraber> I don't see where the changelog tells me why you dropped the pre-start of that upstart job or why it's needed
[13:40] <pete-woods> it was duplicated
[13:40] <pete-woods> I don't know how it happened
[13:40] <pete-woods> but yes, I should have mentioned that
[13:41] <pete-woods> I can even ditch that part of the change if that helps
[13:41] <pete-woods> it just looked crazy to me to have the section twice in there
[13:42] <pete-woods> somehow it never stopped the upstart job from working
[13:42] <stgraber> nah, dropping the duplicate section is fine and may save you some trouble later (should someone decide to change one of them) but it needs to be documented so people looking at the diff (which doesn't include the whole file knows what's going on there and goes to look a bit closer :))
[13:43] <stgraber> there's also that utopic changelog entry which looks a bit odd but that may have been caused by whatever script generates the changelog for you...
[13:44] <pete-woods> in terms of the other changes, is there a way to say that these 3 things all refer to the same LP bug?
[13:44] <stgraber> sure, put the same bug number for each of them
[13:44] <pete-woods> okay, cool
[13:44] <stgraber> or ident them below the first one so I know it's additional description and not separate chagnes
[13:44] <cjwatson> Or indenting is fine too
[13:44] <stgraber> *changes
[13:44] <stgraber> *indent
[13:45] <stgraber> (typing is hard this morning apparently...)
[13:45] <cjwatson>   * General description of change (LP: #nnnnnnn):
[13:45] <cjwatson>     - first part
[13:45] <cjwatson>     - second part
[13:45] <cjwatson> or whatever
[13:45] <pete-woods> okay, cool, I will use that format, thanks!
[13:55] <pete-woods> I figured out where the utopic stuff came from, looks like CI-train accidentally merged to the 14.04 branch instead of 14.10
[13:55] <pete-woods> or something along those lines
[13:55] <pete-woods> so next time won't have the utopic stuff
[13:57] <seb128> pete-woods, if you do a SRU/target trusty, you need to state it in the comments so whoever does the silo config targets the right serie
[13:57] <seb128> (not sure if that was your issue there)
[13:57] <pete-woods> seb128: yes, the problem was a manual upload to utopic had its changes merged into the trusty trunk
[13:57] <pete-woods> it wasn't my upload
[13:58] <pete-woods> indeed, it was not CI train at all
[13:59] <sil2100> pete-woods: maybe there was some configuration mis-happening during the failures we've been having
[14:00] <sil2100> pete-woods: ok, let's reconfigure the silo with your branch then and try re-publishing, double-checking all the targets
[14:00] <pete-woods> sil2100: cool, I have updated the proposed branch now, so hopefully we are good to go :)
[14:01] <sil2100> pete-woods: I see it targetting the right branch - was it targetting trunk before?
[14:02] <pete-woods> sil2100: I don't think it was CI train that went wrong
[14:02] <sil2100> pete-woods: ah, so what do you think is the case?
[14:03] <pete-woods> I think someone pushed manually after a manual upload
[14:03] <pete-woods> maybe I hadn't updated the series at this point, as I wasn't expecting any releases
[14:15] <sil2100> pete-woods: ok ;)
[14:16] <sil2100> pete-woods: so anyway, now is the lp:hud/14.04 branch clean (like only having trusty changes) and the fix branch ready?
[14:17] <pete-woods> sil2100: yes, just removed the mistaken changes about 30 minutes ago
[14:17] <sil2100> ACK
[14:18] <sil2100> Excellent
[14:18] <sil2100> Then just set the silo to ready once it's done and tested and I'll publish
[14:22] <pete-woods> sil2100: cool, thanks
[14:24] <rcj> stgraber,
[14:24] <rcj> All of the architectures built for libdumbnet, can it be moved to main this morning?
[14:24] <stgraber> rcj: it should already be in main
[14:24] <stgraber> rcj: yep, it is and has been since yesterday evening
[14:25] <rcj> stgraber, I was looking at the upload queue which only showed it in universe.  Lesson learned.  Thanks.
[14:26] <stgraber> rcj: " Missing build dependencies: libcunit1-dev "
[14:26] <stgraber> rcj: you said libdumbnet was the only one...
[14:29] <rcj> stgraber, I seriously thought it was... Link to the dep failure?
[14:29] <stgraber> rcj: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/176896809/buildlog_ubuntu-precise-i386.open-vm-tools-lts-trusty_2%3A9.4.0-1280544-5ubuntu6~precise1_MANUALDEPWAIT.txt.gz
[14:43] <rcj> stgraber, cunit moved to main in Saucy.  Looking now...
[15:00] <shadeslayer> ScottK: ^^ 4.13.1 , can you plz accept
[15:03] <ScottK> shadeslayer: It's all in utopic already?
[15:04] <shadeslayer> ScottK: no, because we're merging there
[15:04] <shadeslayer> and I don't want to block
[15:04] <ScottK> ok
[15:13] <pete-woods> sil2100: the HUD packages have built now (except for PPC which seemed to have a crazy slow builder that timed out the tests)
[15:13] <sil2100> pete-woods: let me rebuild ppc then
[15:13] <pete-woods> thanks
[15:15] <cjwatson> sil2100: which builder was it on before?
[15:16] <sil2100> cjwatson: argh, I don't know, already retried - can I get the info somehow still?
[15:17] <cjwatson> sil2100: Not in the DB any more, but let me check the buildd-manager logs
[15:18] <cjwatson> ross - i.e. a ten-year-old xserve
[15:18] <cjwatson> unfortunately the two decent powerpc buildds are going to be busy for a few hours with webkitgtk and openjdk-7 respectively
[15:18] <cjwatson> so I guess you could trust to luck
[15:19] <cjwatson> It's on adare now which is the same hardware generation
[15:36] <pete-woods> sil2100: seems like we don't even try running our tests under valgrind on ppc64, so maybe we should do the same on plain old ppc - it's a huge slowdown
[15:41] <Laney> Would somebody please promote grilo? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grilo/+bug/1116098
[15:41] <cjwatson> That might just have been because valgrind didn't exist on ppc64el until April
[15:41] <cjwatson> But it'd be a reasonable workaround anyway
[15:42] <pete-woods> yeah, that's pretty much what I was thinking
[15:43] <pete-woods> although I guess ppc64 = fast modern server
[15:43] <pete-woods> not poor old xserve
[15:44] <cjwatson> Yes, I wouldn't expect ppc64el to have a speed problem with pretty much anything ever
[15:44] <cjwatson> sagari is pretty modern too and sulfur isn't terrible, so if all else fails we can reschedule on one of those once they're free
[15:44] <pete-woods> cool, thanks
[15:44] <cjwatson> (And hopefully we'll get powerpc converted to VMs on fast modern servers soon too)
[15:45] <pete-woods> this is definitely something I need to fix / workaround in the short term, though
[15:45] <pete-woods> as I can't come bothering you guys for every single HUD landing
[16:03] <pete-woods> woot, it built this time :)
[16:49] <stgraber> mdeslaur, jdstrand: do you have any problem with me promoting cunit to main in precise for open-vm-tools-lts-trusty? It's sadly not the exact same version as the one in trusty and I'm not sure we want to SRU the whole thing so that it's in sync. On the other hand, this is just a unit test framework, so seems low risk to me.
[16:50] <mdeslaur> stgraber: no objection from me
[16:51] <stgraber> ok, good. cunit doesn't have any universe build-dep so it seems safe to do the copy to updates + override trick
[16:51] <stgraber> doing that now then
[16:53] <rcj> stgraber, thank you for running this down.
[16:53] <stgraber> rcj: in 30min or so I should be able to override cunit into main which should fix the open-vm-tools-lts-trusty build and finally get us binaries
[16:54] <rcj> stgraber, that's excellent news
[17:49] <stgraber> infinity: any idea why "./copy-package -d ubuntu -s precise --to-suite=precise-updates -b --auto-approve cunit" would get rejected?
[17:49] <stgraber> infinity: I get: cunit 2.1-0.dfsg-9 in quantal (binaries conflicting with the existing ones)
[17:51] <infinity> stgraber: That doesn't make much sense, given quantal has a different version...
[17:54] <infinity> stgraber: Can you bounce the reject?
[17:54] <infinity> stgraber: I can't find that string in LP anyhere...
[17:54] <infinity> Oh, cause I can't type.
[18:04] <infinity> stgraber: Oh.  Could be a goofy breakage because the original source was actually karmic, and the set of binary builds there doesn't match.  I know there's a bug/misfeature around that...
[18:05] <infinity> stgraber: Might be easiest to just upload a rebuild. :/
[18:07] <stgraber> infinity: yeah, I'll do that...
[18:13] <stgraber> infinity: ^ just did a local test build and things look good (was slightly worried as karmic => precise is quite a bit of time)
[20:35] <rbasak> cjwatson: this may be a really stupid question (which is why I haven't replied to the ML). It sounds like you're re-inventing the idea of a stable release, which we already have. So why is this different?
[20:35] <rbasak> If it's a relatively short term thing until things mature, does that mean that the need for this could disappear over time?
[20:36] <rbasak> I'm just curious - I am not a stakeholder at all here, but I wondered if I'm missing something, or if others will have that question.
[20:52] <stgraber> rbasak: see near the end of the e-mail, the plan is indeed for this to go away
[20:52] <stgraber> rbasak: the main problem is the date of the RTM being months before the 14.10 release date
[20:53] <stgraber> rbasak: we don't want to freeze the whole distro months ahead of schedule so forking the archive at whatever point cjwatson finds appropriate and then only landing the bits that are actually needed for the phone RTM image seems easier and less painful for people working on the rest of Ubuntu
[20:54] <ScottK> stgraber: Once this works once, how do things ever get back to alignment.
[20:56] <stgraber> ScottK: oh I absolutely agree with the feeling, some people will probably fight hard to keep the fork, however my hope is that it'll be sufficiently painful for them to keep stuff in sync that switching back to using the distro will be the obvious choice there.
[20:57] <ScottK> Only if there's some alignment of release schedules?
[20:59] <rbasak> stgraber: ah, OK. I interpreted that as the limited lifetime of individual RTM branches, as opposed to any limited lifetime of RTM branches altogether.
[20:59] <stgraber> I guess the plan is that once we've demonstrated that things can work and we have device out that we are in better position to dictate release dates for the OS and avoid that kind of things in the future
[21:06] <ScottK> Because cadence is important.


[05:05] <valorie> imagine if people were able to wfh one day a week
[05:06] <valorie> 20% less traffic, 20% less time travelling to and from
[05:06] <valorie> double that with two days per week
[09:46] <BluesKaj> Hi folks
[13:22] <MrTux889> Hi, I have a problem installing GIMP on 20.04. The dependencies libgimg2.0 and libgegl-0.4-0 are not installable. Will it be fixed?
 there is no issue installing those here
 I suspect gimp was installed via a ppa kubuntu was upgraded to 20.04
 sudo apt purge gimp gegl & sudo apt autoremove
 sudo apt install gimp
[13:32] <MrTux889> ok thx
[14:52] <MrTux889> RikMills: and DarinMiller - I did a fresh install of 20.04, now everything works just fine
[14:52] <RikMills> :D
 Very good. That's a bigger hammer than recommended, but good to hear.
[14:55] <MrTux889> the recommanded step brought only: gimp isn#t installed, so that didn#t work. But so what, an installation needs 15 min :-)


[15:10] <billf> akgraner: sorry I couldn't stop and chat on Sun morning in the hotel lobby, I had to man a video camera for one of the conference sessions
[15:44] <akgraner> billf, no worries - I just popped in for a minute


[01:13] <ma10> hi, can I join the team? I just uploaded the new azureus and I plan to contribute to maintain it.


[00:39] <msx> hi all, sorry to bother here but I'm unable to find the answer anywhere else: i'm looking for a clean way to close the session (logout) from the command line. gnome-session-quit wont work, nor the dbus method shown here: http://askubuntu.com/questions/15795/how-can-you-log-out-via-the-terminal. Also, I don't want to just 'sudo reboot' but a nicier, more polite method so all running application can
[00:39] <msx> safely end it's ongoing stuff and then end. Any idea?
[00:44] <sarnold> msx: terminal applications should do something sane when they receive a SIGHUP signal
[00:44] <sarnold> msx: since HUP doesn't necessarily make sense to guis, they are less likely to do something sane when receiving it.
[00:45] <sarnold> I've never tried logging out while applications are 'open' -- can linux apps pause or stop a gui-initiated logout or shutdown process? no idea...
[00:46] <msx> sarnold: ahh, I didn't kno GUI apps didn't follow SIGHUP :P good to know!
[00:47] <sarnold> msx: one hopes they either handle it or block it, but a great many programmers go out of their way to avoid learning about signals altogether. (I can't say I blame em. :)
[00:48] <msx> but, i.e. with Unity, when you close a session and there are GUI apps active (like a web browser) they will cleanly shutdown, if you just quit the X server they will most likely crash. So me thinks that there should be a clean, polite way to ask the apps to close and then quit the X session - I could be totally wrong oc!
[00:48] <msx> sarnold: humm, okay, wasn't aware of that, thank you very much for the heads-up :)
[00:50] <sarnold> msx: hrm, that dbus answer looked promising
[00:50] <msx> sarnold: already checked it out but won't work on 14.04 :S
[00:51] <msx> sarnold: at first i think it didn't work because i called the method from within tmux but I have the same error from a plain bash shell
[00:53] <sarnold> msx: hey, I think I found something worth trying
[00:53] <msx> sarnold: weee! Tell me!
[00:53] <msx> :D
[00:53] <sarnold> msx: install the d-feet package, run d-feet, and poke aroud in the org.freedesktop.login1 namespace
[00:54] <msx> roger that, on my way
[00:54] <sarnold> msx: there's an /org/freedesktop/login1/seat/seat0 path in there, with a Terminate() method
[00:54] <msx> great, sounds promising
[00:54] <ruben23> hi guys i have installed vsftpd on my ubuntu server and add user but when i access by ftp client i get login incorrect...i sepcified all teh details on the user i added already- any idea guys..?
[00:54] <sarnold> msx: and under the org.freedesktop.login1.Session interface, there's a Kill() method.. wonder what that does :)
[00:55] <msx> sarnold: haha :D
[00:55] <sarnold> msx: I hope that does the trick :)
[00:56] <msx> i'm on that, i'll keep you informed!
[00:56] <sarnold> thanks :D
[01:04] <msx> sarnold: thank YOU! However this will take a while as I recently started to learn dbus once and for all... as recently as 6 minutos ago =_=
[01:04] <sarnold> msx: hehe, similarly, I've done my best to ignore dbus, too. hahahaha. :)
[01:04] <msx> and indeed this D-Feet browser is very useful
[01:05] <sarnold> yeah, dbus was 100% baffling before someone pointed me to d-feet. now it's just 70% baffling. :)
[01:05] <msx> xD well, seems we all do the same thing until the tides finally catch us, lol
[01:05] <sarnold> next up: systemd
[01:07] <msx> sarnold: well, i have already a foot on it, i've been using arch for a while - and fedora at work - until i returned to my first love (yep, ubuntu)
[01:07] <msx> sarnold: you will eaither hate it or love it, but for sure there's no space for any other feeling between ;)
[01:08] <msx> s/eaither/either/g
[01:09] <sarnold> msx: makes sense. I've wanted a real service manager for ages and cgroups feels less ghetto than ptrace, but i'm not loving how it consumes everything else.. ntp? network configuration? sigh :)
[01:12] <msx> sarnold: that's my *exact* same gripe on systemd: it started as a much needed upgrade for the PID 1 but since then it has been taking over so much that in a beginning was out of its scope. I don't know if this is a real thing or not but someone told me Poettering want an OS fully based on systemd as its core, most fundamental part and 'sane' API...
[01:12] <sarnold> msx: hehe, I don't know his intentions, but it sure has grown significantly..
[01:12] <msx> *wants
[01:13] <msx> absolutely
[04:37] <radbasa> Hi, is this a good place to ask for help about UVTool?
[04:38] <sarnold> radbasa: yeah, but might be a bit late (or early, depending upon your timezone :) -- anyway, can't hurt to try
[04:47] <socketguru> hi all, can anyone suggest regarding my problem... I have installed ubuntu server 14.04 and want to run systemd for init services...is systemd stable enough for this? I was using archlinux before and systemd was great.. but now we have to use production server which is ubuntu
[04:49] <sarnold> socketguru: http://www.piware.de/2014/04/booting-ubuntu-with-systemd-now-in-utopic/
[04:50] <socketguru> thanks :)
[04:53] <socketguru> so you saying systemd will work without any problem?
[04:53] <sarnold> no :)
[04:53] <socketguru> has anyone here used systemd on ubuntu server?
[04:53] <socketguru> sarnold:  no ?
[04:53] <sarnold> it looks like it'd be difficult to get it to go on 14.04; and on the devel release, might be decent enough to try
[04:54] <socketguru> but for production server, we have to give a product which should be stable ...So, what is safe way?
[04:54] <sarnold> stick with upstart
[04:54] <socketguru> Do you think upstart is a safe choice?
[04:54] <socketguru> yeah... okay
[04:55] <sarnold> systemd may be ready for 14.10 or 15.04, but not yet
[04:55] <socketguru> the thing is i haven't used upstart.. and I dont know if upstart will smooth journalctl log service
[04:55] <sarnold> it might be fine for you to play with, but I wouldn't want to run a business on it yet
[04:55] <socketguru> thanks a lot sarnold
[04:56] <radbasa> I have successfully create a VM using uvt-kvm with the default usermode networking. I am trying to create a VM with bridged networking. … wait a minute… sarnold, in the process of collecting everything (command-line commands and results, config files, and log files) for posting at pastebin, I discovered that the bridged network VM is up and working, but uvt-kvm wait and uvt-kvm ip isn't seeing it. http://pastebin.com/ZkRKDFta
[04:58] <sarnold> radbasa: yikes, that's way beyond my experiences with it :/ sorry
[04:59] <radbasa> it's ok. maybe i'll just post it at launchpad
[04:59] <sebas5384> talking about network
[05:00] <sebas5384> let's say you are using vagrant using virtualbox as a provider, and into the vm, you have some lxc containers with private ip addresses
[05:01] <sebas5384> but i want to access from the guest directly to the linux container private address (which is into the vm)
[05:04] <sarnold> sebas5384: I think you've got two options; (a) set up the guest to do IP forwarding and run it as a router/gateway (b) use brctl to add an ethernet bridge in the guest, bind it to the NIC, and bind the lxc containers' IPs to the bridge.
[05:04] <sarnold> sebas5384: I don't know either approach well enough to actually do it myself :) but I hope it gives you some reading..
[05:05] <sarnold> time to bail :) good luck
[05:05] <sebas5384> sarnold: thanks man!
[05:05] <sebas5384> sarnold: really helped :)
[05:10] <radbasa> i used brctl to create an ethernet bridge on the host OS and bound the guest OS to it
[05:40] <sebas5384> radbasa: thanks
[05:41] <sebas5384> radbasa: did you sow it in some article? i'm lookin for something for guiding me
[05:59] <radbasa> sebas5384, I followed step three of this http://xmodulo.com/2014/02/use-kvm-command-line-debian-ubuntu.html
[05:59] <sebas5384> radbasa: awesome!!
[07:24] <zetheroo1> I have a KVM host with 7 Windows VM's running inside ... the reachability of the VM's inside using ping is pretty unstable whereas to the host via either hostname or IP address is fine. The Host is configured with a bond and a bridge ... any ideas what could be causing this behavior?
[08:12] <henkjan> zetheroo1: ubuntu 14.04?
[08:12] <zetheroo1> yes
[08:13] <henkjan> zetheroo1: check the conversations on https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-server/2014-July/thread.html
[08:13] <henkjan> zetheroo1: disabling KSM might help you
[08:13] <henkjan> or upgrading to a newer kernel. 3.13 which comes with 14.04 hase some troubles
[08:15] <zetheroo1> Host is completely upgraded
[08:17] <henkjan> zetheroo1: check the archives on ubuntu-server maillinglist. url above
[08:17] <henkjan> there are some serious problems with 3.13 kernel
[08:17] <henkjan> try installing 3.15
[08:19] <zetheroo1> this is a productive system ... I cannot be shutting it off and on again or trying to install kernels etc ...
[08:19] <zetheroo1> :(
[08:21] <henkjan> 10 to 15% packetloss on production systems is also bad
[08:21] <bekks> henkjan: Then I'm lucky I'm not affected. :)
[08:22] <henkjan> zetheroo1: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-server/2014-July/006940.html
[08:23] <zetheroo1> I have to get the VM's migrated then
[09:46] <zetheroo1> what is the downside of disabling KSM?
[09:48] <rbasak> zetheroo1: google points me to http://www.linux-kvm.org/page/KSM, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kernel_SamePage_Merging_%28KSM%29 and https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/vm/ksm.txt
[09:48] <rbasak> zetheroo1: so I don't know, but I guess it just costs you some more memory.
[11:01] <xnox> smoser: fixed up https://code.launchpad.net/~xnox/cloud-init/fix-systemd-install-paths/+merge/227918 to be truly generic
[11:02] <xnox> smoser: and all tests pass now in the modernised debian packaging https://code.launchpad.net/~xnox/cloud-init/fix-packaging/+merge/227931
[11:39] <codex> I started getting this recently on one ubuntu system (12.04 LTS) [via the daily cron email] "run-parts: /etc/cron.daily/mlocate exited with return code 1". There is nothing else (about a lock), and there is no lock. There are no stale NFS shares or out of space mounts.  I've even purged the DB and re-created it. Also, if I run it manually, it works without any problems. I can't figure out what's causing this for the life of me. Anyone run into anyth
[11:41] <Patrickdk> I normally just uninstall mlocate
[11:42] <Patrickdk> see no point in letting it abuse my server every night
[11:42] <Patrickdk> if you don't use the locate command, that would be a fine thing to do
[11:42] <codex> It's convenient for when you want to lookup a file, but then again, I guess you grind the entire system for the benefit of not grinding it once when you actually need it
[11:42] <codex> that's the thing - i do use it every once in a while
[11:43] <codex> what's strange is I don't see anything about a lock in the cron email. And what's even more strange, it works when I run it by hand. I did a dump of the process table at the time it runs by the cron.daily, and there is nothing else running at the same time/blocking it
[12:20] <smoser> xnox, thanks. i'll list
[12:20] <smoser> list ==  look
[12:28] <fidel_> hi - anyone used to apt-cacher-ng? I am running a virtual server here which acts as apt-proxy for all our ubuntu-servers. this works great so far. now i am realizing that apt-cacher-ng might be as well able to serve other distributions. is that true? experiences are welcome
[13:09] <peetaur2> fidel_: I use apt-cacher-ng. I like it. And without any new config, it handles debian too.
[13:09] <peetaur2> fidel_: I haven't tried it with openSUSE, CentOS, etc.
[13:10] <peetaur2> apt-cacher-ng brings the install of the cluster down to under 15 min :)
[13:15] <fidel_> hi peetaur2
[13:16] <fidel_> so you are handling with 1 apt-cacher-ng install both ubuntu and debian?
[13:16] <patdk-wk> I doubt apt-cacher-ng will work for yum
[13:16] <fidel_> do i understand that right? no issues cause of simular filenames etc as it has a proper folder-structure in its cache-folder i assume
[13:17] <patdk-wk> why would simular filenames matter?
[13:18] <fidel_> well i am unsure. i could imagine it could be critical if packages of ubuntu and debian would be mixes. example: debian client gets paket MC - so its stored in the apt-cacher cache. now an ubuntu client is asking for that package aswell
[13:18] <patdk-wk> fidel, please think
[13:18] <patdk-wk> they exist on DIFFERENT SERVERS
[13:18] <patdk-wk> ubuntu packages are not on the same servers as debian ones
[13:18] <patdk-wk> and if they where, well, wouldn't be an issue
[13:19] <fidel_> i do know - but we are talking about the apt-proxy apt-cacher-ng offers to both clients in that case
[13:19] <patdk-wk> the url for each is different
[13:19] <patdk-wk> yes, it STORES the hostname too
[13:19] <patdk-wk> or did you think it should strip it?
[13:19] <fidel_> as mentioned above - i am/was unsure
[13:20] <peetaur2> fidel_: yes, one Ubuntu apt-cacher-ng handles any random version of Debian or Ubuntu.
[13:20] <fidel_> for me it looks like it crates a clean folder-structure inside its cache folder-  like that it shouldnt be critical at all
[13:20] <fidel_> *creates*
[13:20] <fidel_> k
[13:20] <peetaur2> apt-cacher-ng uses some convention where the client tells the server which hostname to use, so it can go anywhere without server side config ...
[13:21] <peetaur2> if that convention was "http proxy" or "socks5" then it would work on any distro that uses those standards.
[13:21] <peetaur2> but if it is some debian-only thing, then nope
[13:21] <patdk-wk> in my apt-cacher-ng folder, the first item is the server name
[13:21] <patdk-wk> now, to help the cacher work better, it has some regex you can define, that will merge multible server names into one
[13:22] <patdk-wk> like for sourceforge
[13:22] <peetaur2> aptproxy is junk and needs config. apt-cacher and -ng just work out of the box, with any urls.
[13:22] <patdk-wk> the real issue wouldn't be ubuntu vs debian, but using ppa's and 3rd party sources though
[13:22] <peetaur2> any apt ones that is
[13:22] <peetaur2> ppas work fine too...
[13:23] <fidel_> thanks to both of you
[13:23] <patdk-wk> peetaur2, even if it didn't store the hostname/paths?
[13:23] <peetaur2> I have several machines using apt-cacher-ng with zfs ZoL PPA for example
[13:23] <jeffreylevesque> peetaur2, are you familiar with 'UNetbootin'?
[13:23] <peetaur2> yes no config.... just "apt-get install apt-cacher-ng" and assuming firewall, etc. are set up, it'll work
[13:23] <peetaur2> jeffreylevesque: that hack to make usb sticks boot CDROM isos? only aware of its existence, and have not used it.
[13:24] <jeffreylevesque> ok, thank you!
[13:25] <peetaur2> in fact, every debian and ubuntu machine I know of in the office uses my apt-cacher-ng (excluding private VMs on people's windows that I don't control),
[13:25] <peetaur2> and it's nearly flawless. apt-cacher would crash often and needed a watchdog. apt-cacher-ng works great, and only once ever was not responding and a simple restart fixed it.
[13:28] <peetaur2> so..... I tested urls like http://aptproxy:3142/startpage.com/ and tried by setting my proxy in the proxy settings, but it just gives me an error page saying to use the apt setup.
[13:28] <peetaur2> so my guess is it won't work for yum, zypper, etc.
[13:28] <peetaur2> now to try removing such filters in the config ;)
[13:54] <gnuoy> rbasak, I have raised a bug with debdiffs for merging upstream nagios-nrpe (Bug#1348142) but it's not clear to me who I should subscribe as the sponsor.
[13:54] <rbasak> Looking
[13:54] <gnuoy> thanks
[13:56] <rbasak> gnuoy: normally you need to subscribe ~ubuntu-sponsors. That gets it into the sponsoring queue at http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/index.html.
[13:56] <rbasak> gnuoy: but I'll stick this on my todo to review/sponsor so no need.
[13:56] <gnuoy> rbasak, perfect, thank you
[14:41] <zul> jamespage:  newer pycadf is needed according to the requirements.txt for now
[14:41] <zul> for nvoa
[14:41] <jamespage> zul, +1
[14:42] <jamespage> zul, sqlalchemy +1
[14:43] <jamespage> zul, I think that general if a minor version bump is involved (rather than patch) its probably worth updating for Juno CA
[14:43] <zul> jamespage:  ack...i think new depencies we should agree on automatic +1
[15:47] <multihunter> hi
[15:47] <multihunter> I'm trying to use winscp to login as admin then change session to root. I changed sftp serer to "sudo su -c /usr/lib/openssh/sftp-server" When I have this line in visudo everything works fine: admin ALL=(ALL) NOPASSWD: ALL
[15:48] <multihunter> but I want to limit that NOPASSWD so I tried using admin ALL=(ALL) NOPASSWD: /usr/lib/openssh/sftp-server
[15:48] <multihunter> and now winscp cant connect. how to solve this?
[15:49] <rbasak> sudo isn't calling sftp-server. It's calling su.
[15:49] <rbasak> Why are you calling su anyway?
[15:50] <Tzunamii> Create a dedicated user, give it a specific group and assign the group the necessary permissions. Never use root for such tasks
[15:56] <multihunter> what if I need to work on some files in /root (via winscp)?
[15:59] <Tzunamii> Maybe you should reconsider how you have set up your workflow and the access to it
[16:01] <multihunter> well there's nothing in /root yet, I was just looking for a general way. Thanks
[18:01] <patrick_M> having trouble on trusty with vnc server - can anyone confirm this as a problem: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-session/+bug/1274013
[18:01] <Pici> patrick_M: You'll probably have better luck asking in #ubuntu, as ubuntu-server does not ship with a GUI.
[18:02] <patrick_M> ok, I'll try there also - but just as an fyi, this is on server
[18:07] <lordievader> Good evening.
[19:27] <zartoosh> hi I am looking for refind package, any one knows where I can download it from? thx
[19:45] <ToAruShiroiNeko> I am trying to install and configure rsnapshot. I am a bit overhwlmed by certain parts though. Any help?
[20:37] <bitbyte> do any of you guys know how to switch sessions on ubuntu server. I was doing an update and my laptop died and it got stuck mid update and now the dpkg resource is busy being used.
[20:38] <bitbyte> I wanna try connect to the session and finish the update I think its stuck at a prompt
[20:44] <matt2000> bitbyte, I dont know how to do it after the fact, but I generally use the screen utility to run such things, since it does allow reconnecting.
[21:30] <blaaa> I am building apparmor profiles for an ubuntu 14.04 server, I wonder if I should expect 'usr.lib.postfix.master' to pop up in future revisions of the apparmor-profiles package
[21:30] <bitbyte> hey guys im trying to rename alot fo files and they all are like “OP-41 L@mBerT” im trying to remove the L@mBerT any ideas where I can start on getting this achived theres around 800 files to renmae
[21:46] <tgm4883> The backup/restore guide for LDAP on the server guide doesn't appear to work  https://help.ubuntu.com/lts/serverguide/openldap-server.html#ldap-backup
[21:46] <tgm4883> I'm failing at the first slapadd for config.ldif
[21:47] <tgm4883> slapadd: could not add entry dn="cn=config" (line=1)
[22:49] <tokata> .
[22:49] <byte> .²
[22:54] <thumper> hallyn, stgraber: have tracked down a juju lxc issue to the change of meaning of the "-c" flag on lxc-start in 0.9 to mean device instead of filename
[22:54] <thumper> any suggestion on the best way to support 0.8 and newer versions?
[22:56] <thumper> does 0.8 barf if we give it -L (or --console-log) ?
[22:58] <mnaser> so after hours of debugging, i finally found the bug which was causing a lot of issues i was getting
[22:58] <mnaser> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1346917 -- it looks like it was commited but how do i know if it was built with it?
[22:59] <mnaser> or rather, how do i know if/when a kernel comes out with that updated
[23:01] <sarnold> mnaser: when it's published, a notice will be appended to that bug with the changelog entry; subscribe to that bug for an email
[23:01] <mnaser> sarnold: ah okay, is there any usual "timeframe" or "schedule" for kernel compiles?
[23:01] <hallyn> yeah that was a hellofabug
[23:02] <hallyn> thumper: that change has caused some problems...  I'll (or the list will) have to think through it.  Could you please post an email to lxc-devel, or open a bug?
[23:03] <sarnold> mnaser: I think they happen every three weeks...
[23:03] <mnaser> ah i see
[23:04] <hallyn> phew, think i've uncovered another annoying bug in libnih-dbus-assumptions...  converted cgm from a dbus-send wrapper script to a c program;  now the GetTasks method on an empty cgroup claims to return an error.  Sigh.
[23:06] <thumper> hallyn: opened this bug for juju https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1348386
[23:09] <hallyn> thumper: stuck it in my list to look at tomorrow.  disappearing shortly - ttyl
[23:10] <thumper> hallyn: ack
[23:11] <hallyn> (i think stgraber will be back tomorrow, he may actually remember something about this other than that others have brought it up :)
[23:14] <hallyn> thumper: so to be clear, waht you want is what is now the "-L" option?
[23:14] <hallyn> I think having lxc detect that the console device is not a device, and falling back to -L, would be reasonable
[23:15] <thumper> hallyn: what I want is really just a way to be able to determine which flags to pass
[23:15] <thumper> since we want to support centos, can't even use dpkg to figure out version
[23:16] <thumper> actually, that would be reasonable...
[23:16] <thumper> the fallback that is
[23:17] <thumper> problem is, that supporting a fallback option for lxc is a big problem, as you have many version to tweak
[23:17] <thumper> if juju could work it out, it would be easier for us
[23:17] <hallyn> you say 0.8 was when this happened?
[23:18] <thumper> the docs for 0.8 say -c is a filename, 0.9 -c is a device
[23:18] <hallyn> oh i think that was commit 596a818d4b8b55586d36af518b745cd96b24c67a
[23:18] <thumper> just looking at docs to determine this
[23:18] <hallyn> "separate console device from console log"
[23:18] <thumper> sounds like that could be it
[23:19] <hallyn> so you do have a simple way to detect then,
[23:19] <hallyn> try "-L", if it fails, you can use -c for -L
[23:19] <thumper> we could
[23:19] <thumper> if using -L on 0.8 fails in a way we can detect
[23:20] <thumper> it's kinda icky, but would work
[23:20] <hallyn> it should fail giving you usage output
[23:20] <hallyn> or i can do the fallback for -c, but that wont' help with all the version already out there
[23:22] <thumper> right
[23:24] <hallyn> I must dash - if the bad-args-detect works for you, pls comment in the bug?  I'll check it tonight.
[23:24]  * hallyn out
[23:24] <thumper> kk


[00:06] <Kodosuntu> Okay, joined on my regular client this time.
[00:07] <Kodosuntu> There's no vga= in the grub options list, so I have no idea what I need to change or where, short of the linux gfx setting, but I'm not sure what I need to change it to. This time I'm going to stick around until I can either find or get a solid answer.  Thanks in advance
[07:44] <sysrex> hmmm ages ago there were some small to - do apps, now kind of nothing, any of you guys can suggest a good todo app for xubunt
[11:43] <xubuntu60w> my xubuntu shuts down in 10 minutes of inactivity but i have the power manager set for 30 minutes  any ideas
[13:30] <xubuntu72i> xubuntu is coming to my pc :D
[13:31] <Pici> \o/
[13:32] <xubuntu72i> i use uefi and install bootloader to sda1 is this correct?
[13:32] <xubuntu72i> sda1 is efi partition
[13:34] <xubuntunoob> .help
[15:54] <senpos> Hello. Do anybody expect issues with CSD (Client Side Decorations)? For me, file-roller is not working that way.
[15:56] <knome> not working with issues?
[15:59] <senpos> CSD doesn't work on my Xubuntu 15.04. Tested with file-roller and some calculator app, don't remember the name. On Manjaro all is OK.
[16:02] <knome> which theme are you using?
[16:02] <senpos> Default and Numix
[16:03] <senpos> CSD works for you on Xubuntu? Can you show it? Maybe something is wrong with my settings
[16:06] <knome> define "works" and "doesn't work" ?
[16:07] <senpos> For me - CSD doesn't work.
[16:07] <knome> what does that mean?
[16:07] <knome> you can't see it?
[16:07] <knome> you can see it but buttons do not activate?
[16:07] <knome> it's ugly?
[16:08] <knome> "doesn't work" isn't helpful at all
[16:08] <senpos> Well, as i said, i tested it with file-roller, so "Extract" button is NOT on titlebar, it just below it.
[16:09] <senpos> Give me few minutes to reboot and i'll send you a screenshot with problem.
[16:09] <knome> but it works as in the buttons do what they are supposed to?
[16:10] <senpos> Are you kidding? The latest version shouldn't work like this. Just gonna bring few screens for you. Wait.
[16:10] <knome> i'm not kidding.
[16:18] <senpos> just came here with screenshots
[16:18] <senpos> thats how file-roller looks on xubuntu: http://i.imgur.com/AUiU7Yy.png
[16:19] <senpos> with arc theme, same with default and numix
[16:19] <knome> okay.
[16:19] <senpos> and how it should work http://i.imgur.com/AUiU7Yy.png
[16:20] <senpos> oops sorry wrong link
[16:20] <senpos> here it is http://i.imgur.com/7j1SmRU.png
[16:20] <senpos> "Extract" and some other buttons are on the title bar
[16:21] <knome> yes, that's a newer version than in 15.04.
[16:21] <senpos> well, gona downgrade the package, wait
[16:22] <knome> i don't really know what you are trying to prove
[16:22] <senpos> That Xubuntu can't handle CSD and want to fix it
[16:23] <flocculant> bit late for 15.04, not likely for 15.10 either - but if you actually want to help - then do so for 16.04 :)
[16:24] <senpos> But CSD-support released in Xfce 4.12 and 4.12 is on Xubuntu 15.04. Isn't it?
[16:27] <drc> senpos: Let me get this straight.  YOU are volunteering to fix this problem?
[16:28] <knome> just to be clear, this is not only a technical issue, it's also a social agreement and a design decision that will need discussing
[16:28] <cfhowlett> don't write a check ...
[16:29] <senpos> I just want to know, is it bug with my PC or Xubuntu's feature. <knome> asked me few thing to get more information.
[16:30] <drc> thought so
[16:30] <knome> it's a stretch to call it a "feature" either, but that's how it works in xubuntu right now
[16:30] <senpos> So i do really want to get some info is there any way to make CSD work as it expected
[16:30] <knome> "expected" for you, maybe not for others...
[16:31] <senpos> knome: actuall, as feature of CSD-app and Xfce 4.12
[16:31] <senpos> So, thats all i wanted to know. Thanks.
[16:35] <knome> i think you might have to build other versions of the apps.
[16:35] <knome> but i'm not sure, i'm not totally on top of this issue
[16:36] <senpos> Thanks for advise, will try to build the latest file-roller.
[17:38] <coughitout_> hello, wondering if anyone can help me with an xubuntu installation problem?
[17:40] <coughitout_> installed from a cd, completely wiped everything from the hdd, so its the only OS on there. At the end of installation it prompted a restart, and when it boots, just hangs on a black screen with blinking cursor in the top left
[17:41] <genii> !nomodeset
[17:42] <coughitout_> thank you, I'll try that
[18:52] <crucerio> hi there, just hooking in and wanting to tell you my issue about a laptop using xubuntu: it looses its keyboard when opening the desktop manager..
[18:54] <crucerio> this keyboard disconnection occurs after around 1 week after the fresh installation.
[18:56] <crucerio> updating the software lets it work for another few days, then the keyboard looses it's function again, any idea?
[18:56] <crucerio> it's xubuntu 15.04 by the way
[20:22] <ibouvousaime> my USB drive became a 8mb drive and cant mount how can I fix it ?
[20:44] <Pici> r/70
[20:45] <DalekSec> Bingo!
[20:57] <Pici> you sunk my battleship!
[20:58]  * knome places a meeple on the "family growth" action card
[20:59] <knome> (reference: http://cardboardandwood.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Family-growth.jpg)
[21:00] <genii> knome: How many board games do you own?
[21:30] <scarlot> Anyone who can redirect me to instructions on how to install vivid vervet on partitioned disk via usb? thx
[21:39] <gordonjcp> evening
[21:40] <gordonjcp> I'm having some problems with Xubuntu 15.04 with dual monitors on a fairly boring onboard Intel adaptor
[21:40] <gordonjcp> about half the time I can't get them out of mirror mode
[21:40] <gordonjcp> even when they do come out of mirror mode, every time I boot they're back in mirror mode
[21:40] <gordonjcp> is there any way to permanently set the displays to do something sane?
[21:45] <gordonjcp> or, maybe even remember which monitor is supposed to be left and which is right
[22:44] <bet0x> Hello, i have a ATI R290 using Open Source Drivers (default) with 3 Monitors, the LightDM has a issue on boot i do see the wrong resolution on my primary screen and i don't know how to configure it. I'm using Ubuntu 15.04
[23:09] <yoLo_> hey guys, what is that app that we uses to make screenshots/snapshots  ?? similar to windows snipping tool
[23:09] <knome> xfce4-screenshooter?
[23:10] <yoLo_> .. no clue
[23:10] <yoLo_> is that the name ?
[23:10] <knome> yes.
[23:10] <yoLo_> ok
[23:39] <GreenLine> Hi, I use Xubuntu 14.04 and have problem with run Virtualbox. After start  mashine, I get "Kernel driver not installed (rc=-1908)". I try reinstal, update, but nothing work.
[23:43] <Unit193> GreenLine: Did you ever  sudo /etc/init.d/vboxdrv setup  ?
[23:44] <GreenLine> Unit193> sudo: /etc/init.d/vboxdrv: command not found
[23:45]  * Unit193 can't remember the repos one...
[23:45] <Unit193> You can check the status  sudo dkms status
[23:46] <GreenLine> virtualbox, 4.3.10: added
[23:46] <knome> Unit193, i have /etc/init.d/vboxdrv from repo...
[23:47] <Unit193> Aha.
[23:47] <GreenLine> Can I get vboxdrv by apt-get vboxdrv
[23:48] <GreenLine> <
[23:48] <GreenLine> ?
[23:48] <Unit193> !find /etc/init.d/vboxdrv
[23:48] <knome> lies.
[23:49] <knome> though apt-file gets me no results
[23:49] <knome> i still have it, and i have vbox from the repos
[23:51] <knome> GreenLine, how did you install virtualbox?
[23:52] <GreenLine> knome> from Ubuntu SW center
[23:52] <knome> try "
[23:52] <knome> sudo apt-get install --reinstall virtualbox-dkms
[23:53] <Unit193> knome: dpkg -S /etc/init.d/vboxdrv
[23:53] <knome> Unit193, virtualbox-4.1
[23:54] <Unit193> knome: That's not official, mate.
[23:54] <knome> wah.
[23:54] <Unit193> !info virtualbox-4.1
[23:54] <knome> weird.
[23:54] <knome> my vbox also says 4.3...
[23:54] <Unit193> knome: That's fron vbox repos, and old at that.
[23:54] <knome> but i don't have those repos enabled...
[23:54] <knome> and not using the binaries..
[23:54] <Unit193> dpkg -l virtualbox-4.1, is it rc?
[23:55] <knome> yes
[23:55] <knome> whatever that means...
[23:55] <Unit193> RC="$(COLUMNS=200 dpkg -l | awk '/^rc/{print $2}')" && [ "$RC" ] && sudo dpkg --purge $RC
[23:55] <knome> well i just purged it myself.
[23:59] <GreenLine> knome> I try it, but I get error Consult /var/lib/dkms/virtualbox/4.3.10/build/make.log for more information.  * Stopping VirtualBox kernel modules    [ OK ]   * Starting VirtualBox kernel modules    * No suitable module for running kernel found    [fail] invoke-rc.d: initscript virtualbox, action "restart" failed.


[00:48] <directhex> so is #ubuntu-steam unmoderated?
[00:49] <elky> directhex, you appear to be in the access list
[00:50] <directhex> i am? huh, look around for 5 minutes
[00:50] <elky> -ChanServ- 7     directhex              +Aiotv [modified 11 weeks, 4 days, 03:46:59 ago]
[00:50] <directhex> okay, five and a half minutes. now to remember freenode syntax
[00:51] <elky> try /msg chanserv op #ubuntu-steam
[00:51] <elky> i use scripts, im not sure i remember the unscripted version right :P
[00:52] <elky> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5606556/ is the full acl for that channel
[00:54] <directhex> right, okay, ta elky for reminding me of that little detail
[00:55] <elky> not a problem
[00:55] <directhex> crisis averted. unless the whaaaambulance /msgs start getting overly directed
[00:55] <elky> can you tell me what nick was causing grief, so we can keep an eye elsewhere?
[00:58] <directhex> http://paste.debian.net/241101/
[00:58] <directhex> GeorgeTorwell
[00:58] <directhex> although given they seem to be a real anonymity nut75488888
[00:58] <directhex> GAH CAT
[00:59] <directhex> although given they seem to be a real anonymity nut, i doubt having the IRC nick helps much
[00:59] <elky> anonytrolls are pretty bad at not having a nick theme
[01:00] <elky> he's actually registered and cloaked with sasl, so that's useful.
[01:01] <elky> anyway thanks :)
[01:01] <directhex> not all that fussed. once he started talking about bombing someone's workplace whom he disagreed with, i thought maybe some +o was needed
[01:01] <elky> cute.
[01:02] <elky> !staff ^this may be of interest
[01:02] <elky> !staff | ^this may be of interest
[01:03] <directhex> anyway i should totally be in bed. office day tomorrow.
[01:03] <elky> sleep well
[01:04] <IdleOne> is this complaint from #ubuntu-steam?
[01:06] <elky> yes
[05:44] <KatnissEverdeen> before you ban me!
[05:44] <KatnissEverdeen> did Justin bieber see selena gomez naked?
[05:47] <KatnissEverdeen> answer this question everyone!
[05:47] <KatnissEverdeen> !ops
[05:47] <KatnissEverdeen> !staff
[05:47] <KatnissEverdeen> did Justin bieber see selena gomez naked?
[05:47] <KatnissEverdeen> then ban me =)
[05:54] <KatnissEverdeen> did Justin bieber see selena gomez naked?
[05:55] <Flannel> maybe.
[05:55] <Flannel> We already covered this.
[05:55] <KatnissEverdeen> now ban me ♥
[05:55] <KatnissEverdeen> yes now do the usual and ban me dude
[05:55] <KatnissEverdeen> ♥
[05:55] <KatnissEverdeen> or I could just leave the channel now
[05:55] <KatnissEverdeen> what do you prefer?
[05:56] <KatnissEverdeen> I will do this then leave♥
[05:56] <KatnissEverdeen> !ops
[05:56] <KatnissEverdeen> !staff
[05:56] <KatnissEverdeen> bye!
[14:52] <Myrtti> funkyHat: we've tried to not kickban him, since he seems to get some kind of fix from that
[14:52] <Myrtti> but since you've done it, it's ok
[14:54] <funkyHat> Oh, sorry for storming in ⡈ᗡ
[14:55] <Myrtti> just don't remove the ban
[14:55] <Myrtti> or modify it to a mute
[14:55] <funkyHat> Ok :)
[16:20] <Seveas> There's a guy in #ubuntu calling himself SharkMuttleworth. Maybe worth keeping an eye on
[16:20] <k1l> im having an eye on him
[16:20] <Seveas> and if you set /mode -n I won;t need to joinspam :)
[18:18] <jbroome> Sorry 'bout that, i didn't see it going anywhere good
[18:19] <KatnissEverdeen> bye ^_^
[18:19] <KatnissEverdeen> !ops
[18:19] <KatnissEverdeen> !staff
[18:19] <Myrtti> how predictably boring
[18:19] <Pici> bleh
[18:22] <jbroome> Does eir track bans for #ubuntu, or should I remove that quiet?
[18:23] <Myrtti> let me do it
[18:23] <AlanBell> ubottu tracks the bans
[18:23]  * Myrtti raises an eyebrow
[18:24] <Pici> o.O
[18:24] <Myrtti> it didn't tell me off for setting the mute
[18:24] <IdleOne> ñ.n
[20:32] <KeyboardNotFound> Is ubuntu bot (ubottu) is open source ?
[20:34] <Pici> !botclone


[15:07] <pavlushka> Hello ahoneybun  :)
[15:07] <pavlushka> looks like the only non-bots are us :)
[19:37] <ahoneybun> mm?


[02:05] -queuebot:#edubuntu- Builds: Edubuntu Desktop amd64 [Mantic Daily] has been updated (20230510)


[21:43] <thomi> elopio: is veebers sick these days? or did he stay over in FL?
[21:43] <elopio> thomi: he stayed.
[21:43] <thomi> ahh
[21:43] <thomi> you enjoy the sprint?
[21:44] <elopio> thomi: I did. Nice to be in a sunny place, for a change.
[21:45] <elopio> how are you doing these days?
[21:47] <thomi> heh.. I'm doing well. microservices have got me keeping busy :D
[21:47] <thomi> I know more juju and mojo than I want to :D


[02:17] -ubottu:#ubuntu-news- ::planet:: Jonathan Riddell: OpenUK Awards 2023 Open for Nominations @ https://jriddell.org/2023/07/28/openuk-awards-2023-open-for-nominations/


[08:45] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/mir]** bors[bot] merged [pull request #2688](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/pull/2688): Close all Wayland clients on server stop