[03:09] <chris4585> anyone know how to turn off a indicator on gnome-panel?
[03:13] <wrst> chris4585 hmm that's a good question :)
[04:08] <cyberanger> chris4585: details may help
[04:09] <chris4585> cyberanger, the little mail icon is there with no menu entries, quite annoying its there for no reason
[04:14] <cyberanger> wrst: mail, the envelope?
[04:15] <cyberanger> err, whoops
[04:15] <cyberanger> chris4585: mail, the envelope?
[04:15] <chris4585> yes
[04:15] <cyberanger> if so, right click, remove from panel
[04:15] <chris4585> cyberanger, if I do that then I lose my volume icon
[04:16]  * chris4585 thinks its been a while since cyberanger has been on gnome
[04:17]  * cyberanger thinks he is typing this from lucid, gnome
[04:18] <chris4585> :O!!
[04:18]  * cyberanger thinks it just worked for him 5 minutes ago
[04:18] <chris4585> well that was my shock of the night
[04:18] <chris4585> yes well this is 10.10
[04:19] <chris4585> I love the indicators but in all seriousness the lack of gui options for them is very frustrating
[04:19] <cyberanger> chris4585: yeah, I personally favor other setups, openbox and lxde the most, but aim for stock so far (unity is making me wonder a little if lubuntu is going to become my stock support)
[04:20] <cyberanger> and my custom setups are not as popular at work, for the desktop rigs
[04:20] <cyberanger> chris4585: so it will not do that on 10.10?
[04:20] <chris4585> so you're saying you may try unity more?
[04:20] <chris4585> cyberanger, I don't believe so
[04:20] <cyberanger> I'm saying in it's current forum, it's not ready for new ubuntu users
[04:21] <cyberanger> so I will be, but the deal is, it's this or lubuntu, and lubuntu is winning atm
[04:21] <chris4585> ah
[04:21] <chris4585> what I can't stand is Unity is changing so much
[04:21] <cyberanger> chris4585: can you right click on the envelope and give me a list of options
[04:22] <chris4585> last week we got the blue ubuntu icon when there is a notification, I loved that! but now its just the tip of the corner is blue and I don't really like that as much..
[04:23] <chris4585> cyberanger, that wont work... the right click option for it defaults to the applet handler to remove it etc..
[04:23] <chris4585> and it wont remove it alone, it will remove the whole indicator applet
[04:23] <chris4585> with the volume Icon
[04:24] <cyberanger> did in my case too, overlooked that (which is fine, my case is set and done, icecast source client)
[04:25] <cyberanger> http://www.wiredrevolution.com/ubuntu/remove-the-envelope-icon-from-the-gnome-indicator-applet
[04:26] <chris4585> only if there was a gui to do that except to disable it
[04:27] <cyberanger> additional step, desired end result for us both (however since this is mostly pulseaudio and vlc, I could strip 9/10ths of this out and use alsamixer really, might as well leave it stock-ish)
[04:27] <cyberanger> chris4585: that package needs to go, if you can just disable it, that works too
[04:27] <chris4585> I think earlier I actually did remove that with a bunch of other things and accidentally removed gnome-panel with a few other things...
[04:28] <cyberanger> chris4585: I bet gconf has a boolean for it
[04:29] <cyberanger> lemme see
[04:29] <chris4585> probably
[04:29] <chris4585> but gconf just shouldn't be the only way
[04:33] <cyberanger> should vs is, ubuntu does some things that should be different in my mind at times
[04:33] <cyberanger> you might be right
[04:34] <cyberanger> but that is a point, it might be the only way
[04:37] <cyberanger> chris4585: right or wrong, http://www.wiredrevolution.com/ubuntu/remove-the-envelope-icon-from-the-gnome-indicator-applet method does work
[04:37] <cyberanger> so if we look in that, we can see what's able to be disabled
[04:37] <chris4585> indeed
[04:37] <cyberanger> instead of purging it
[04:38] <cyberanger> (however, honestly, I'd purge it anyhow, chat is on my server, ssh in, email is thunderbird, applet ignored, what else does it do worth anything)
[04:39] <chris4585> I'd rather purge it in reality
[04:39] <chris4585> but my argument was for the common person
[04:40] <cyberanger> yeah, I know
[04:41] <cyberanger> I guess in ubuntu's mind, common person wants window buttons on the left, like a mac
[04:41] <cyberanger> and the new indicator setup
[04:42] <cyberanger> despite how I hear alot to the contrary
[04:42] <chris4585> well after a week of using the window setup I didn't mind it actually I prefer it now since I have muscle memory built up
[04:42] <cyberanger> (and they have yet to do anything to really justify it)
[04:42] <chris4585> I figured I might as well not fight it
[04:42] <cyberanger> muscle memory, heh, works better when all match
[04:43] <cyberanger> and unfortunately, not so, I rarely see a mac in the shop
[04:43] <cyberanger> they break sure, but one out of 15 are mac, at best
[04:43] <chris4585> they kind of did, the indicators are designed to be on the right so in unity maximized windows's controls will be beside the ubuntu icon
[04:44] <cyberanger> so ubuntu is the odd ball
[04:44] <chris4585> lol
[04:44] <cyberanger> chris4585: unity perhaps
[04:44] <chris4585> I don't see why they couldn't be on the right but meh
[04:45] <chris4585> I honestly can't wait to give fedora 15 with gnome shell a shot
[04:45] <cyberanger> (I mean ubuntu is already the oddball, but I'm the linux guy, servers aside, not much is linux aside from my toolkits)
[04:51] <cyberanger> seems alot of us have thoughts of jumping ship
[04:52] <chris4585> oh I'm not jumping, just playing on the jungle gym
[04:53] <cyberanger> so far, same
[04:53] <cyberanger> but that's merely due to the way I run things, I'm not really doing things differently from debian
[23:57] <vychune> o/
[23:59] <cyberanger> hey vychune
[23:59] <vychune> evening


[15:29] <ion> keybuk: Feel like merging my mountall patch? :-)
[15:31] <Keybuk> ion: is there a bug open for it?
[15:33] <ion> keybuk: Nope, it seems. I’ve only pushed to https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~ion/ubuntu/lucid/mountall/lucid
[15:37] <Keybuk> ion: if you could file a bug, or at least attach it to a bug
[15:37] <Keybuk> and a merge request
[15:37] <Keybuk> that would be great
[15:37] <ion> Will do
[15:37] <Keybuk> otherwise I just won't remember to do it
[15:37] <Keybuk> things like that get processed in a reasonable fashion
[15:38] <ion> What is the current development branch for mountall in lucid? lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu/karmic/mountall/ubuntu still?
[15:39] <ion> I.e. to where should i make the merge request? :-)
[15:39] <Keybuk> I think so
[15:39] <Keybuk> let me check
[15:39] <ion> There’s also lp:ubuntu/mountall with auto-imports only (no real commit history).
[15:39] <Keybuk> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mountall
[15:39] <Keybuk> right
[15:40] <Keybuk> was checking if james_w switched them over yet
[15:40] <Keybuk> are you sure?
[15:40] <Keybuk> lp:ubuntu/lucid/mountall is a real branch
[15:40] <Keybuk> that's most odd
[15:41] <Keybuk> oh
[15:41] <Keybuk> right
[15:41] <Keybuk> yes
[15:41] <Keybuk> it's the auto-import
[15:41] <Keybuk> james hasn't made the real branch the right one yet
[15:41] <Keybuk> he's on holiday this week
[15:43] <Keybuk> it'll all be just lp:ubuntu/PACKAGE soon
[20:40] <meoblast001> hi
[20:40] <meoblast001> i just installed upstart, is the binary /sbin/init?
[21:00] <tormod> does upstart log output from script stanzas somewhere?
[21:03] <tormod> what does nih as in libnih mean?
[21:16] <tormod> brb
[22:15] <Keybuk> tormod: not at the moment (plans to do so)
[22:15] <Keybuk> nih = not invented here
[22:15] <Keybuk> if something is written from scratch, rather than re-using existing code, we say it's "NIH"
[22:16] <Keybuk> it's mostly a joke, because libnih looks like lots of "standard libraries" like glib and such
[22:16] <Keybuk> but with a few major differences that Upstart needs, like not abort()ing on malloc() failure
[22:24] <ion> And generally sucking less. :-)
[22:31] <tormod> I knew the joke, but I thought this can not possibly be a joke...
[22:32] <tormod> well I saw it a thousand times in the source, and no explanation, so you can always come up with something
[22:33] <tormod> new init helper?
[22:34] <tormod> also, I have a suggestion: adding the OMGBroken wiki trick to a README file, so I can look it up while I am in sulogin


[10:13] <plovs> ChrisH, are you around, could you come over to the big hall?
[10:14] <ChrisH> plovs: I'm in the bof room currently.
[10:15] <ChrisH> plovs: but I plan to only attend this bof and the keysigning later and spend some time off-bof :)
[10:17] <ChrisH> plovs: weather is very good, wife is a little bored and it's the last full day I can spend at the beach :)
[11:36] <jiyuu0> lulu, hello
[11:36] <jiyuu0> regarding the short paragraph
[11:37] <jiyuu0> i've sent to the ubuntu-users list
[11:38] <jiyuu0> u can find the same here
[11:38] <jiyuu0> http://jiyuu0.blogspot.com/2004/12/introducing-httpubuntuguideorg.html
[11:39] <lulu> jiyuu0: Hiya...ok thanks!
[11:39] <jiyuu0> :)
[11:50] <lulu> jiyuu0: that's fine. We are doing an update on the site - as soon as it's up we'll add this link.
[12:46] <Burgundavia_> hey lulu?
[12:47] <lulu> Burgundavia_: what a nic! Hiya :o)
[12:47] <lulu> howzit going down there?
[12:47] <Burgundavia_> I was wondering if anyone needs a roomate
[12:48] <lulu> quite possible - let's take this offline.
[04:00] <plovs> https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/WelcomeToPython
[04:06] <plovs> sivang, does it work?
[04:07] <sivang> plovs : yes it does.
[04:07] <sivang> thanks
[04:07] <sivang> I do not know how to insert the right id etc
[04:07] <sivang> to create a new page,
[04:07] <sivang> you have to do something with parenting it
[04:09] <plovs> sivang, i'll show you later, just remind me
[04:09] <sivang> ok, thanks
[04:11] <Burgundavia_> how is repo going?
[04:40] <plovs> Burgundavia_, no good yet
[04:45] <Burgundavia_> ok
[05:08] <sivang> plovs : I need the key :)
[05:09] <plovs> sivang, i am coming down
[05:09] <sivang> ok , thanks :)
[05:41] <jiyuu0> Spanish Translation: http://guia-ubuntu.org/ (By: Gabriel)
[06:40] <Burgundavia_> salut
[07:08] <sivang> lulu : we should probably also open a ubuntu-he list
[07:11] <lulu> sivang:good - set it up!
[07:30] <sivang> lulu : how ;O)
[07:35] <lulu> I have created #ubuntu-he. It's set up - if you want to register it, /msg chanserv help and there will be instructions there.One of you will then need to admin it.
[07:36] <lulu> sivang: to set up any channel you go /join #channelname
[08:29] <sivang> plovs : let me know when you wanna go


 5
 3
[08:35] <user|87> Bonjour, je cherche une distribution qui installe automatiquement linux en dual boot avec windows. Qui peut me renseigner ? Merci
[10:29] <minjun> hello from hannah montana linux version
[10:29] <minjun> distro
[11:07]  * arraybolt3 really hopes that person doesn't use that for their daily driver - way too outdated and probably a security nightmare
[12:04] <guo> vim /etc/default/locale
 I am getting ACPI bios error while rebooting
 My kubuntu 22.10 blutooth issue not showing devices
[13:49] <mybalzitch> dunno where to ask, but I hit some key sequence in firefox and it seems to have completely muted itself
[13:50] <mybalzitch> even application under the kde mixer says no apps are playing audio
[13:52] <mybalzitch> oh, sigh. was super simple fix. thanks for listening
 Glad we could be your rubber ducky :)
 Would purging entire snap from kubuntu break the system?
[20:56] <mmikowski> Gecko250: Do you mean will removing snap from the system break it?
[20:56] <mmikowski> If so, the answer is mostly no, but you will likely have some plugins lying around that expect snap to be there, like a snap backend for Discover.
[20:57] <mmikowski> IMO, best to keep it around for when you need it, and prefer Debian packages if that what you want.
[22:52] <jefferson> Good night, I have installed Kubuntu, I'm Brazilian and I can't add portuguese language to work and the keyboard to ABNT2, can you help me?


[02:26] <Unit193> jphilips: 'extras' is new stuff, 'staging' is backports to focal, 'experimental' is 4.15 stuff.
[11:16] <jphilips> Unit193: thanks. guess i'll stick with enabling staging. any plans to get thunar-shares-plugin into the ISO as its the only new thing in extras now and definitely would be a good easy addition to have enabled by default in xubuntu?
[11:23] <Unit193> Staging isn't for testing purposes, but alright.  Nope.
[11:57] <jphilips> staging description: "The packages are uploaded for the convenience of people testing these new package versions and features in an otherwise stable environment."
[20:44] <jphilips> just fixed the 18.04 download links which were broken for the last 2 months and we should look into a means for these links not to get broken like this when the .torrent files are removed
[20:45] <jphilips> bluesabre: is 18.04 running gtk2 xfce?
[21:25] <Unit193> brainwash: Actually, you seem quite interested in that plugin, if you can come up with a longer description, I'll package it for 'extras' :3
[21:27] <brainwash> longer description?
[21:27] <brainwash> 'A modern, docklike, minimalist taskbar for XFCE'
[21:27] <brainwash> that is too short?
[21:28] <brainwash> taken from the github page
[21:29] <brainwash> the features could be listed to fill description space
[21:29] <brainwash> https://github.com/nsz32/docklike-plugin#features
[21:31] <Unit193> That's about what I used for the sort description, and sure that'll do for now maybe.
[23:40] <xubuntu40> Hi everybody, i want to ask, what is the first thing you want to tell your friend when he goes from windows to xubuntu OS ?
[23:41] <Unit193> I'd be curious why said friend made the change, I guess.
[23:43] <xubuntu40> sorry i didn't make myself clear, i mean any tips any guidelines or something to first look before goes crazy with his new OS, something like that
[23:46] <Unit193> Heh, I have things I do to customize it, but that's not really fitting for anyone else.  I'd mainly just tell someone to not be afraid to tinker and customize it to however they like it.
[23:56] <Unit193> I don't think he liked that answer.


[02:29] <darkxst> mephux, I don't have any ATI hardware
[14:13] <octoquad> mephux, I have an ATI card. I'll give it a bash...
[14:14] <mephux> octoquad: thanks
[14:19] <octoquad> mephux, works ok for me
[14:19] <octoquad> what card do you have?
[14:19] <mephux> octoquad: hhm, ok thanks - guess i'll keep looking
[14:20] <mephux> ati radeon r9 200
[14:21] <octoquad> Have you tried removing the xorg.conf out the way in /etc/X11/
[14:21] <octoquad> removing = moving
[14:21] <mephux> I don't have an xorg.conf currently
[14:22] <octoquad> ok, you can also try amdconfig --initial
[14:22] <octoquad> from the command line after install
[14:22] <mephux> yea, trying that again now
[14:22] <octoquad> I also don't have a xorg.conf, so that is one thing to eliminate
[14:22] <octoquad> is this a dual screen setup?
[14:23] <mephux> nah, single
[14:23] <octoquad> should be less painful to setup then
[14:24] <LinDol> hi all
[14:24] <mephux> hm, so creating the xorg.conf and dropping to the shell and starting x again worked.. that never worked before
[14:24] <mephux> would always segfault
[14:24] <octoquad> interesting
[14:24] <octoquad> maybe the kernel didn't load up the module before
[14:28] <octoquad> Also from my experience, open amdcccle as root and change a few things and save. The configuration should stick then if used via amdcccle. I had a problem with overscan at one point.
[14:28] <mephux> yea, just did that and it seems better
[14:28] <octoquad> awesome
[14:29] <octoquad> a reboot is the ultimate test :P
[14:29] <mephux> fglrxinfo shows the right card but settings > details > shows the VESA: HAWAII
[14:29] <mephux> yea, rebooted and its working ok
[14:29] <octoquad> Mine is VESA: TAHITI
[14:29] <mephux> still missing the startup and shutdown screens.. but word
[14:30] <mephux> octoquad: so doesn't that mean its defaulting to the opengl drivers?
[14:30] <mephux> mesa
[14:30] <mephux> or is that ok
[14:30] <octoquad> run fglrxinfo and tell me what the output is
[14:30] <mephux> kk
[14:30] <octoquad> no sudo needed
[14:31] <octoquad> also run lspci | grep AMD
[14:31] <octoquad> It should say Hawaii for your card
[14:31] <mephux> octoquad:  http://paste.ubuntu.com/9596378/
[14:32] <mephux> octoquad: output for lspci http://paste.ubuntu.com/9596381/
[14:32] <mephux> so looks ok i guess
[14:32] <octoquad> mephux, looks good
[14:32] <octoquad> yeah
[14:33] <mephux> octoquad: ok, word - thanks.
[14:33] <octoquad> you can also do lspci -vvv and scroll down to your VGA controller listing
[14:33] <mephux> i'll see if i can track down the start/off screen issue and open a ticket or pull request
[14:33] <mephux> looking.
[14:33] <octoquad> the kernel driver in use should say "fglrx_pci"
[14:34] <mephux> octoquad: looks good
[14:34] <mephux> i see it
[14:34] <octoquad> Funny thing is I don't get that blank screen before login. Only if I'm not using the flgrx.
[14:34] <octoquad> awesome
[14:35] <mephux> octoquad: so, one thing i noticed.. using the fglrx-updates package was way better for me va the default fglrx or even the direct download from the ATI site
[14:35] <mephux> not sure why. lol
[14:35] <octoquad> which version of ubuntu gnome are you using 14.04 or 14.10?
[14:36] <mephux> 14.10
[14:36] <mephux> testing it
[14:36] <octoquad> If I do apt-cache policy {fglrx,fglrx-updates} they are the same version
[14:36] <octoquad> on 14.10 though
[14:36] <octoquad> Have a look at the candidate field
[14:37] <mephux> maybe a change in the postint.sh for the deb?
[14:37] <mephux> dunno
[14:37] <octoquad> so technically, there should be no difference at all
[14:37] <mephux> hhm
[14:37] <mephux> guess its in my head.. haha
[14:37] <octoquad> maybe lol
[14:38] <octoquad> in what way was -updates better? performance or visual?
[14:38] <mephux> wouldn't be the first time i placeboed myself
[14:38] <mephux> perf/
[14:39] <octoquad> haha
[14:39] <mephux> I was using unity ubuntu before this and managed to get the driver from the site installed.. on ugnome it wont allow x to start
[14:40] <mephux> so i have to dpkg --purge
[14:40] <mephux> no errors or anything.. oddly
[14:40] <mephux> but w/e
[14:41] <mephux> i can live with this
[14:41] <octoquad> interesting I've tried all three methods and they have worked. But this was still 13.10 at the time. This is the first time since then that I have installed fglrx
[14:41] <octoquad> great, do you want to reboot just to make sure everything works as expected?
[14:41] <mephux> octoquad: if you get a chance.. try the one from the site.
[14:41] <mephux> kk, brb
[14:41] <octoquad> ok, I'll give it a bash
[14:41] <octoquad> maybe tomorrow though
[14:42] <mephux> reboot worked fine
[14:42] <mephux> octoquad: roger - just intrested if you run into any issues
[14:43] <octoquad> I will share my findings if I do
[14:43] <octoquad> that's great, glad to hear it's working ok
[14:43] <mephux> octoquad: kk, thanks for the help today
[14:43] <octoquad> no problem :) Enjoy Ubuntu Gnome!
[14:44] <mephux> thanks - so far its epic.. first time using linux on the desktop in like 10 years
[14:45] <octoquad> Yeah I made the switch to Ubuntu Gnome at the end of 13.10, I was a bit tired of the performance from unity, but I'm glad I switched. Two days later I installed Ubuntu Gnome on my work machine and I haven't looked back. Although I am curious to see how it's going on that front nowadays. :)
[14:46] <mephux> i used unity for about 5 mins before i was like.. wtf is this.. haha
[14:47] <mephux> gnome 3 is epic tho. super impressed by it althought a lot of folks hate.. personally I like it even more than macosx
[14:47] <octoquad> haha, It's no so bad. As a developer I like a change. It takes a few days to get used to anything any ways, but I'd been using Ubuntu since 9.04 if I recall correctly.
[14:48] <mephux> software wise i'm sure its solid.. just not my cup of tea.
[14:48] <octoquad> I agree, I just don't like the icons at the moment, but I switch them out for the Moka theme and icon set: http://mokaproject.com/
[14:48] <mephux> oh, wow
[14:48] <mephux> nice.. ever saw this before
[14:49] <octoquad> I think the coolest thing that grab my attention was the extensions in gnome, blew my mind! lol
[14:49] <octoquad> no more ppa's for the core things that I needed: http://extensions.gnome.org/
[14:50] <mephux> yea, i have a few - Im working on one for auditd atm
[14:50] <mephux> so i can see syscalls
[14:51] <octoquad> interesting
[14:52] <mephux> i was surprised no one has made one showing the current apps making and rev network connections and how much
[14:53] <octoquad> Let me know when it's complete, I'm keen to check it out
[14:53] <mephux> octoquad: for sure
[14:53] <octoquad> mephux, I'm glad you sorted on the AMD/ATI front, I'm off, I'll be back at bit later or tomorrow. Enjoy the rest of your day!
[14:54] <mephux> later and thanks
[14:54] <octoquad> no problem! ciao
[18:30] <MrSavage> I find a weird bug
[18:31] <MrSavage> when i apply global dark theme, it makes the ubuntu software center's text unreadable
[18:33] <MrSavage> as seen http://imgur.com/WcDrTzb
[23:40] <ubuntu-gnome> hi
[23:40] <jazzkutya> so i have just booted up ubuntugnome 14.10 livecd and went into settings
[23:41] <jazzkutya> is this a joke? where are all the settings? like mouse sensitivity, display resolution _with_ refresh rates, multiple desktops/workspaces?


[01:24] <StevenK> wgrant: So I hang myself with dispair over Django and its ORM, I've been poking at PackageDiff. I'm still tossing up if we write a PDJ and hook everything that way, or if I keep PackageDiff as it is and write a new class that pretends to be an IJobSource
[01:24] <StevenK> Er, so I don't hang myself, even
[01:38] <johntron> how do i import a github repo? i see the page that says it's possible, but it doesn't actually say how: https://help.launchpad.net/Code/Imports
[01:38] <johntron> nvm
[01:38]  * johntron is an idiot
[01:47] <johntron> i dunno if i'm just dense or not, but i can't figure this out. i want to create a source package recipe using this as a starting point: https://launchpad.net/~chris-lea/+archive/nginx-devel
[01:48] <johntron> i see that i can copy it, but don't know how to get the bzr repo checked out
[01:48] <johntron> maybe i need to just download the .deb and create my own repo from that?
[03:05] <jelmer> johntron: you'll need to download the source pakcage and create a branch from that
[03:05] <jelmer> from the debian/ directory there specficially
[03:10] <johntron> jelmer: thanks! i just found reprepo, so i'll probably just use that
[03:10] <jelmer> johntron: ah, rather than a PPA?
[03:13] <johntron> well, i don't want to give the impression that i'll be maintaining this...
[03:14] <johntron> i was just wanting to use PPA to build and distribute for me
[03:14] <johntron> so i can use puppet/chef/salt to provision easily
[03:47] <StevenK> wgrant: No opinions?
[03:51] <StevenK> wgrant: Oh, can't ArchivePurpose.DEBUG die horribly now?
[03:55] <wgrant> StevenK: Back, sorry.
[03:56] <wgrant> Ah yes, I forgot to follow up to kill the enum value
[03:56] <wgrant> StevenK: I'd write a PDJ
[03:56] <wgrant> You can possibly get away with just using the job table.
[03:58] <StevenK> wgrant: I'm writing my thoughts
[04:01] <StevenK> wgrant: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/5835072/
[04:02] <wgrant> 1) is right out, because you used the word "leverage"
[04:02] <StevenK> Haha
[04:02] <wgrant> PackageDiff.job to replace PackageDiff.status is an antipattern
[04:02] <wgrant> It could supplement it, but it cannot replace it.
[04:02] <StevenK> wgrant: Currently, ISourcePackageRelease.package_diffs will show PENDING diffs, too
[04:03] <wgrant> That's correct.
[04:03] <StevenK> I'm not sure if we care enough to preserve that behaviour.
[04:03] <wgrant> We do
[04:03] <wgrant> We don't particularly want duplicate diffs requested
[04:04] <wgrant> And it will confuse eg. +localpackagediffs
[04:04] <StevenK> So we want PackageDiffJob.package_diff and PackageDiffJob.job, and we create a PackageDiff when the job is created
[04:05] <StevenK> And PackageDiff.status and its enum friend can die.
[04:05] <wgrant> I think you can probably get away with using Job.json_data
[04:05] <wgrant> Or whatever it is called
[04:05] <wgrant> Referential integrity is not an issue here
[04:05] <wgrant> The job should just not do anything if the PackageDiff doesn't exist.
[04:05] <wgrant> So no DB changes
[04:05] <StevenK> Until status dies?
[04:06] <wgrant> Hm?
[04:06] <wgrant> What do you mean?
[04:08] <StevenK> json_data is not on Job itself, it's on the derived job classes, backing onto their own DB tables
[04:09] <StevenK> wgrant: If we're linking to Job to make use of Job.status, why does PackageDiff.status need to exist?
[04:09] <wgrant> StevenK: We're not linking to Job
[04:09] <wgrant> The Job will be linked only be a reference in a JSON dict.
[04:10] <wgrant> And even if we were linking them formally, PackageDiff.status still needs to exist unless we want to break Launchpad
[04:10] <StevenK> If we create PDJs (say), we can automatically fail the job if the SPR is udev
[04:10] <wgrant> No
[04:11] <wgrant> Because that bug will be fixed by the time this happens.
[04:11] <wgrant> I'm also not sure how that's relevant to this
[04:11] <StevenK> wgrant: We can't use Job itself
[04:12] <StevenK> wgrant: How does the death of PD.status break LP?
[04:12] <wgrant> Why can't we use Job itself?
[04:12] <wgrant> We may need to add a new JSON column to it
[04:12] <wgrant> But I don't see why we can't use it
[04:13] <wgrant> StevenK: Because filtering by (SPR, status) across two tables is going to be very slow
[04:13] <wgrant> Think BPB, except not from 2005.
[04:13] <StevenK> Then we create PDJ?
[04:14] <StevenK> Bleh, derived jobs don't have status directly
[04:14] <wgrant> Create PDJ for what reason?
[04:15] <StevenK> I was thinking to make filtering easy but it still requires two tables
[04:16] <wgrant> Even if PDJ.status existed, it still provides no benefit
[04:16] <wgrant> Why do that when you can just use PD.status?
[04:18] <StevenK> wgrant: So, we create Job.json_data, when a PD is requested we make a bare job that contains the PD id in json_data, and then we have a interface/model that grab the job, lookup the PD, perform the diff and set PD.status appropiately?
[04:18] <wgrant> Unless you can think of a benefit to having PDJ
[04:19] <StevenK> Not having PDJ means it's different to any other job via process-job-source ?
[04:19] <wgrant> I mean in the database
[04:19] <wgrant> process-job-source has no idea about the database layout
[04:19] <wgrant> Code changes within Launchpad are cheap
[04:20] <wgrant> They can easily be changed with an hour's notice
[04:20] <wgrant> A PDJ table provides no benefit, apart from a foreign key reference, and I would argue that that is not a benefit.
[04:20] <wgrant> And it pushes us ever closer to 300 tables
[04:21] <wgrant> If you follow the "everything needs a foreign key" approach then you end up needing a separate table for every distinct set of classes that participate in a job
[04:22] <StevenK> We can't destroy hwdb and kill 16 tables?
[04:22] <wgrant> I haven't spoken to HWE/cert
[04:22] <wgrant> lately
[04:23] <wgrant> Even so
[04:23] <wgrant> a PDJ table provides no benefit other than an FK
[04:23] <wgrant> FK is not a notable benefit
[04:23] <wgrant> => PDJ is a net negative
[04:23] <wgrant> => no PDJ table
[04:23] <wgrant> You still need a DB change this time.
[04:23] <wgrant> But only this time.
[04:23] <StevenK> So, the plan I outlined is fine?
[04:23] <wgrant> Yes
[04:24] <wgrant> It's effectively a schemaless rabbitmq job that happens to also be persisted in the database, because we don't have a rabbitmq HA story today.
[04:25] <wgrant> Job.json_data gives us jobs that are almost as lightweight as everyone else who is using celery without the HA concerns.
[04:28] <StevenK> wgrant: I accidently ArchivePurpose.DEBUG, I'm going to self-approve and land.
[04:28] <wgrant> k
[06:02]  * wgrant ginas saucy
[17:02] <cjwatson> Has anyone had a chance to consider https://code.launchpad.net/~cjwatson/launchpad/copy-set-phase/+merge/170775 ?


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[04:19] <Fredson> alguem ai ?
[09:49] <YoBoY> Ubuntu G+ community ~2600 members, ubuntu-fr G+ community ~220 members. ~10%, it's not bad :D
[09:49] <YoBoY> good morning
[17:10] <Cheri703> Hey folks, I'm one of the heads of the Ohio LoCo, and we've got some difficulties. We've got a pretty large geographic area that we cover, and a fairly small amount of people that are active participants. That leads to low turnout for events, difficulty getting Ubuntu Hours going, and it is VERY hard to get the WHOLE group together at once. There is some "other" group that meets in Columbus, and apparently a few folks have spoken with
[17:10] <Cheri703> the leader, but even if one of the major cities has ubu-things happening, it doesn't help the rest of the state. Does anyone have any suggestions or resources or anything that we can look to for ideas? Sorry for the wall-o-text, but any thoughts are appreciated!
[20:57] <ahmed_> هلا
[20:57] <ahmed_> السلام عليكم


[21:11] <holstein> ailo: YO
[21:11] <holstein> long time no see right?
[21:12] <ailo> hi holstein
[21:12] <ailo> Yea, I've just had the program off. Didn't think about it until I rebooted my computer
[21:14] <holstein> lol
[21:14] <ailo> What's new?
[21:14] <ailo> Has there been any meetings btw?
[21:14] <holstein> not much at all
[21:14] <holstein> nah, theres supposed to be one this sunday
[21:14] <holstein> next sunday
[21:24] <ailo> It's only been off for about 5 days, but I suppose I haven't been talking for a while
[22:23] <ScottL> hi ailo
[22:23] <ScottL> holstein, do you have a preferred date for recording the podcast?
[22:29] <ScottL> persia, the linux-meta package built after i eliminated the date (-) in the version number in the changelog
[22:30] <astraljava> ScottL: We need to get discussion started before the meeting in a week from today. About the seeds/desktop. It's already August (well, here, not there.) Not too much time to fix everything prior to feature freeze (though there's obviously time for bug fixes even after that.)
[22:30] <ScottL> persia, i think i'm ready for your notes on the kernel at your convenience
[22:30] <ScottL> astraljava, that is true, i commit to get you some notes about changes
[22:31] <ScottL> astraljava, has anyone tested the image lately, rlamerio was the last one i knew about a week or two ago
[22:31] <astraljava> ScottL: Sadly, I haven't. :( But, I have all my machines in the new apartment now, so I should be able to test tomorrow evening.
[22:31] <ScottL> i've been out of town this weekend but was going to download an image tonight
[22:32] <ScottL> about to go out for dinner with the family in about five minutes
[22:32] <astraljava> Go, have fun. That's what weekends are for. I'll test tomorrow and give you feedback during your office hours. :)


[02:59] <CaponeBH> Hey guys, how are you? Im using Ubuntu Studio 9.10, do you recomend me to change to 10.04? Any big difference?
[02:59] <holstein> hey CaponeBH
[02:59] <holstein> if it aint broke right ?
[02:59] <holstein> nah, what do you do mostly?
[03:01] <holstein> audio? video?
[03:01] <holstein> i think its a good idea to update to an LTS version for longevity if nothing else
[03:02] <CaponeBH> I use for audio
[03:02] <holstein> and so far, the upgrades have been reported to be working well
[03:02] <CaponeBH> sorry for taking so long to answer
[03:02] <holstein> no worries
[03:03] <CaponeBH> nice, so i will download it
[03:03] <CaponeBH> thanks
[03:03] <holstein> OH
[03:03] <holstein> your going to do a fresh install?
[03:04] <holstein> or you mean, start DLing packages... i see
[03:04] <holstein> let us know how it goes
[03:05] <holstein> also, if your into audio recording
[03:05] <holstein> you might enjoy #opensourcemusicians
[03:07] <CaponeBH> Yeah, actualy ubuntu studio is the first that i use
[03:07] <CaponeBH> but i installed it wrong
[03:07] <holstein> how so?
[03:07] <CaponeBH> i didnt choose to install the packages
[03:07] <holstein> you can add them
[03:07] <CaponeBH> so i had to choose by hand what did i want
[03:07] <holstein> OK
[03:08] <CaponeBH> but now im formating it to install it again
[03:08] <holstein> you can add all the packages to a normal lucid install
[03:08]  * holstein prefers the fresh install
[03:08] <CaponeBH> cause i want to see the music programs that comes with it
[03:08] <CaponeBH> but i installed some nice ones by hand
[03:09] <holstein> you can run synaptic and search ubuntustudio
[03:09] <holstein> OR sudo apt-cache search ubuntustudio
[03:09] <CaponeBH> i wish i knew that before hehehe now is too late...but thats ok... i wnjoyed the system a lot
[03:09] <holstein> and read about the meta-packages
[03:09] <holstein> the meta-packages are like collections of packages
[03:09] <holstein> CaponeBH: now you know :)
[03:10] <holstein> i do the same thing
[03:10] <CaponeBH> ow...nice... i will try to learn more about that
[03:10] <CaponeBH> easier than choose one by one hehehe
[03:10] <holstein> format, and reinstall just to see about it
[03:10] <holstein> you can read about it here
[03:10] <holstein> !vanilla
[03:11] <CaponeBH> but do u think i will have problemas with the grub???
[03:11] <holstein> also https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudioPreparation
[03:11] <holstein> CaponeBH: no problems
[03:11] <holstein> just be aware
[03:11] <CaponeBH> cause i have windows and ubuntu studio, cause i need windows to use skype since i couldnt use it on ubuntu 9.10
[03:11] <holstein> OH
[03:11] <holstein> is it one hard drive?
[03:12] <holstein> grub2 should go and find your windows partition
[03:12] <holstein> no problem
[03:12] <CaponeBH> yeah...but its kind of c: and d: so c: is windows and d: is ubuntu
[03:12] <holstein> should*
[03:12] <holstein> check out
[03:12] <holstein> !grub2
[03:12] <holstein> BUT you should be find
[03:12] <holstein> if you add the realtime kernel
[03:13] <holstein> you'll want to go in there and edit grub
[03:13] <CaponeBH> im worried about keep the configuration of the old ubuntu studio, but i think that will work too...hope so...
[03:13] <holstein> CaponeBH: your trying to use your old home folder?
[03:13] <holstein> from karmic?
[03:13] <DeathMetalDean> are there any benefits of having Ubuntu Studio than just downloading the files onto Ubuntu?
[03:14] <CaponeBH> just a moment guys... come back in some minutes...got to watch my team play... thanks for the help....
[03:14] <CaponeBH> im formating my old ubuntu studio
[03:14] <CaponeBH> and installing it again
[03:14] <CaponeBH> so this time i install it right
[03:14] <CaponeBH> and choose to install the music packages
[03:15] <holstein> your welcome anytime CaponeBH
[03:15] <holstein> DeathMetalDean: i dont think so
[03:16] <DeathMetalDean> holstein, Ok :o
[03:16] <holstein> i prefer to add the packages i want from the repo
[03:16] <holstein> you should get the same system in the end
[03:16] <holstein> there are some configurations you might need to do
[03:16] <holstein> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudioPreparation
[03:17] <holstein> you might want to read over that
[03:17] <holstein> IF you have any issues running JACK
[03:17] <holstein> permission-wise
[03:18] <DeathMetalDean> holstein, ok thanks :)
[03:24] <DeathMetalDean> holstein, whenever I went to 10.04 on Ubuntu yesterday some of my programs stopped opening somehow like, tuxguitar etc, would I be better off trying Ubuntu Studio in a different partition or something?
[03:24] <holstein> nah
[03:25] <holstein> thats interesting
[03:25] <holstein> can you list what is not working?
[03:25] <holstein> DeathMetalDean: also
[03:25] <holstein> try launching them in the terminal
[03:25] <holstein> and see what the complaints are
[03:25] <holstein> and if your not running JACK
[03:25] <holstein> try sudo running them
[03:26] <holstein> that shouldnt matter
[03:26] <holstein> we shoule be able to trouble-shoot that
[03:26] <DeathMetalDean> meta@meta-laptop:~$ sudo tuxguitar
[03:26] <DeathMetalDean> [sudo] password for meta:
[03:26] <DeathMetalDean> Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: org/eclipse/swt/widgets/Control
[03:26] <DeathMetalDean>         at org.herac.tuxguitar.gui.TGMain.main(Unknown Source)
[03:26] <DeathMetalDean> Caused by: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: org.eclipse.swt.widgets.Control
[03:26] <DeathMetalDean>         at java.net.URLClassLoader$1.run(URLClassLoader.java:200)
[03:26] <DeathMetalDean>         at java.security.AccessController.doPrivileged(Native Method)
[03:26] <DeathMetalDean>         at java.net.URLClassLoader.findClass(URLClassLoader.java:188)
[03:26] <DeathMetalDean>         at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(ClassLoader.java:307)
[03:26] <DeathMetalDean>         at sun.misc.Launcher$AppClassLoader.loadClass(Launcher.java:301)
[03:26] <DeathMetalDean>         at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(ClassLoader.java:252)
[03:26] <DeathMetalDean>         at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClassInternal(ClassLoader.java:320)
[03:27] <DeathMetalDean>         ... 1 more
[03:27] <DeathMetalDean> that's what came up when I try to open with the terminal
[03:27] <holstein> cool
[03:27] <holstein> you might want to pastebin that in the future
[03:28] <holstein> so you dont get kicked
[03:28]  * holstein should have said
[03:28] <holstein> DeathMetalDean: do you have java installed?
[03:29] <holstein> http://www.javatester.org/version.html
[03:29] <DeathMetalDean> sorry didn't mean to spam, I dunno if I have java, just got this new version, I probably don't have java cuz when I upgraded to 10.04 I had to reinstall flash
[03:29] <holstein> no worries :)
[03:29] <DeathMetalDean> nope, don't have java :o
[03:29] <holstein> that would be my first step
[03:29] <holstein> i havent used tux guitar
[03:30] <holstein> but it looks like it needs java
[03:30] <DeathMetalDean> holstein, yeah I'm pretty sure it does, I remember my brother mentioning that one time lol I had this problem quite awhile ago I think
[03:32] <DeathMetalDean> holstein, can I install java from the terminal?
[03:32] <holstein> you can
[03:34]  * holstein apt-cache search - ing a couple option
[03:35] <holstein> i havent installed it in lucid yet ;)
[03:38] <holstein> have you installed ubuntu-restricted-extras ?
[03:42] <DeathMetalDean> holstein, yup I have
[03:43] <holstein> hmmm
[03:44]  * holstein installing tuxguitar
[03:45] <holstein> you should have openjdk
[03:45] <holstein> maybe tuxguitar dont like openjdk
[03:47] <holstein> DeathMetalDean: hmmm, it opened for me with openjdk
[03:48] <holstein> mabye its something else then...
[03:48] <DeathMetalDean> holstein, I've no idea D: lol
[03:48] <holstein> i'll refer you to #opensourcemusicians while i think about it and get another beer :)
[03:49] <DeathMetalDean> holstein, alrighty :)
[03:49] <holstein> the only package i added that you probably dont have is
[03:49] <holstein> sudo get install default-jre
[03:49] <holstein> BUT that really shouldnt matter
[03:50] <DeathMetalDean> I'll try it anyway lol :p
[03:54] <CaponeBH> Hey guys, me again, sorry... i dont know why, i asked to format the drive that it was installed ubuntu studio
[03:54] <CaponeBH> and now its not installing
[03:54] <CaponeBH> it appears a red screen
[03:54] <CaponeBH> saying about some files that it couldnt be removed
[03:55] <CaponeBH> can someone help me pls?
[03:55] <holstein> hmmm
[03:55] <holstein> you have 2 drive?
[03:55] <holstein> one FAT
[03:55] <holstein> OR NTSF
[03:55] <holstein> and the other for ubuntu?
[03:56] <holstein> i would grab a live DE
[03:56] <holstein> CD*
[03:56] <CaponeBH> yeah... ntfs the windows
[03:56] <holstein> something with Gparted
[03:56] <CaponeBH> i think i will format it with windows cd... and than try again
[03:56] <holstein> and really get rid of everything but the NTSF
[03:56] <holstein> hmmm
[03:57] <CaponeBH> yeah...
[03:57] <holstein> the windows CD will make an NTSF or FAT probably
[03:57] <holstein> not that theres anything wrong with that
[03:57] <holstein> BUT
[03:57] <holstein> i would want only ONE NTSF on the disc
[03:57] <holstein> and just have ubuntu use the rest of the space
[03:58] <CaponeBH> well...i think is my best shot... i can format again to fat32 with the ubuntu studio cd no?
[03:58] <holstein> CaponeBH: i also thing the graphical installed does a better job at laying those options out
[03:58] <holstein> CaponeBH: maybe if you do advanced partitioning
[03:58] <holstein> BUT i have no idea what that looks like in that installer
[03:59] <holstein> ive never used it
[03:59] <CaponeBH> i think the problem is the grub
[03:59] <CaponeBH> i cant even turn on windows anymore
[03:59] <CaponeBH> i reseted my computer
[03:59] <CaponeBH> and its showing a screen with gru rescue>
[03:59] <holstein> you can run fixmbr
[03:59] <CaponeBH> grub*
[03:59] <holstein> n windows
[03:59] <holstein> from the widows rescue console
[04:00] <holstein> and get the MBR for windows back
[04:00] <holstein> if you want to get windows booting
[04:00] <holstein> i would just zero everything but the windows partition
[04:00] <holstein> and let ubuntu deal with it
[04:02] <CaponeBH> i think i will just reinstall everything...
[04:02] <CaponeBH> think is the only way
[04:02] <holstein> that'll do
[04:02] <holstein> nah
[04:02] <holstein> you can use a 3rd party boot loader too
[04:02] <CaponeBH> i knew that the grub would have some problem...it always have...at least with me...
[04:03] <holstein> http://gag.sourceforge.net/
[04:03] <holstein> thats the only one ive ever used
[04:03] <holstein> you can have it boot partitions without installing it too
[04:03] <holstein> or it use to
[04:03] <holstein> great rescue featuer
[04:03] <holstein> feature
[04:24] <StevenGJ> I haven't had the time to do as much research as I'd like on Ardour and JAMin and such, but I'm looking at using this laptop computer as a portable mastering machine for songs I produce in a studio I work at, and I'm trying to compare JAMin/Ardour mastering vs. using Windows Vista w/ Ableton Suite 8
[04:25] <CaponeBH> windows cant format the partition...because its fat32 and it doesnt recognize it anymore
[04:25] <StevenGJ> If I were to do this I'd install Ubuntu Studio as the only OS on the machine
[04:25] <CaponeBH> i dont know why...but with time...seems that installations are getting worse instead of better...
[04:25] <CaponeBH> i need windows man...
[04:26] <CaponeBH> unfortunelly linux doesnt support me in some stuffs...
[04:26] <StevenGJ> sorry if I interrupted anything
[04:26] <StevenGJ>  Just trying to get pointed in the right direction of seeing the mastering capabilities of jamin vs ableton
[04:26] <CaponeBH> nah, thats ok... we are all here to help each other ...thats fine :)
[04:26] <StevenGJ> lol good deal
[04:27] <StevenGJ> not looking to get spoon fed, per se, but I need to figure out what software I'm going to be using in two weeks
[04:27] <StevenGJ> I've been mastering tracks in Ableton with no problem but I don't want to be selling clients short
[04:27] <StevenGJ> I've heard Pro Tools allows you to do things to the audio spectrum you can't do in ableton, but I'm not about to go buy more equipment just to use Pro Tools
[04:28] <StevenGJ> So I look into the open source community I love so much but currently don't have a *nix machine to test the software on
[04:33] <StevenGJ> and I'll be here all night trying to research this in the best way possible
[04:33] <StevenGJ> :D
[04:56] <holstein> StevenGJ: #opensourcemusicians
[04:56] <holstein> the opinions will be biased :)
[04:56] <StevenGJ> lol I'll ask there as well
[04:56] <StevenGJ> ah
[04:56] <StevenGJ> jokes on me
[04:57] <StevenGJ> soon as Dumb and Dumber is over lol
[05:02] <holstein> CaponeBH: did you get sorted?
[05:02]  * holstein had a call
[05:02] <holstein> my folks trying to install a printer in windows 7
[05:03] <holstein> i used crossloop to get over to the box
[05:03] <holstein> thats the most time ive spent in front of windows 7
[05:04] <holstein> StevenGJ: i really like using JamIN
[05:04] <holstein> i havent seen ableton in a while
[05:05] <holstein> BUT jamin has multiband compressors
[05:05] <StevenGJ> as does ableton
[05:05] <holstein> i just run everything OUT to it
[05:05] <holstein> from JACK
[05:05] <StevenGJ> I use multiband to remove everything below 30-35 hz or so and level out the audio
[05:06] <StevenGJ> does JAMin allow editing the left/right channels of the audio itself?
[05:06] <holstein> hmmm
[05:06] <holstein> i want to say no
[05:06] <holstein> BUT you could have 2 instances
[05:06] <holstein> and route them accordingly in JACK
[05:06] <holstein> i havnet tried though
[05:06] <holstein> it might be in there
[05:07] <StevenGJ> hmmm
[05:07] <StevenGJ> because that could help with stereo enhancement and there's limited ways to do that in ableton
[05:07] <holstein> the way routing works in JACK, you can do whatever you want
[05:08] <holstein> the possibilities are daunting really
[05:08] <holstein> i remember i was using cubase and XP
[05:08] <holstein> and i got my rig working in linux
[05:08] <holstein> and i literally just stared at the screen for a couple months ;)
[05:08] <StevenGJ> never was a big fan of cubase, then again I've always used ableton I barely dabbled in it
[05:08] <holstein> so many options
[05:09] <StevenGJ> I definitely need to try running a virtual machine of ubuntu studio, would that have the same audio capabilities for testing?
[05:09] <holstein> StevenGJ: cubase just came with the presonux firepod
[05:09] <holstein> presonus*
[05:09] <holstein> its OK
[05:09] <StevenGJ> yeah it came with the firestudio projects I'm using too hehe
[05:09] <StevenGJ> I run a few of those to the main computer on firewire
[05:09] <holstein> StevenGJ: if you have a lot of ram
[05:09] <holstein> if the host box
[05:10] <holstein> i dont see why not
[05:10] <StevenGJ> hmmmm
[05:10] <holstein> 2 GB
[05:10] <StevenGJ> well if I run into glitches I'll know what th eproblem is at least
[05:10] <holstein> that would do it well
[05:10] <StevenGJ> 4GB DDR2 on this laptop
[05:10] <holstein> i think you can test reasonably with that
[05:10] <StevenGJ> bueno
[05:11] <StevenGJ> I don't ever connect the actual recording equipment to this anyways I just use a M-Audio FastTrack Pro and connect it to the monitors whenever I need big playback
[05:12] <holstein> OK
[05:12] <holstein> so you'll have USB in Vbox
[05:45] <CaponeBH> Good night guys...see you soon...problem resolved with a hard solution...formated windows first...and now installing the ubuntu studio with all the packages...
[05:45] <CaponeBH> however, thanks for the help
[05:47] <holstein> later CaponeBH :)
[07:06] <exy666> sorry if this is off-topic but maybe someone here would know: is it possible for audacity to record audio from other apps with vanilla 9.10 (no studio), or would I need to configure something like JACK?
[07:11] <StevenGJ> as far as I know JACK's the only thing in linux that'll port audio from one application to another, but don't quote me on that
[07:12] <StevenGJ> I know audacity in windows won't unless you setup hardware inputs to be program output
[07:14] <exy666> thanks.  checking audacity forums where they make it sound easy by referencing UI i don't find.  appreciate the response.
[07:15] <exy666> presently have a half-configured JACK, no audio, and deciding whether to figure that out or roll it back.
[08:31] <Monona> I'm having trouble getting input on an M-Audio Fast Track Pro.  The input doesn't seem to be on in the device.  There's no readable system output on JACK either.  I'm on Hardy 8.04.  How can I get a mic in?
[09:53] <kilonux> hello, just installed US 10.4.  Need help
[09:53] <kilonux> anyone there?
[09:55] <astraljava> kilonux: Usually better to type your problem instead, if someone's around and willing to respond, they will.
[10:03] <kilonux> Ethernet was plugged during install, but the dhcp conf. failed. I continued the install and it seemed to me like it downloaded a loy during install.  Now there is no internet connection possible on this fresh install. neither eth or wifi, no icon up right. this worked fine on this notebook using Ubuntu (from Gutsy to Jaunty)
[10:04] <kilonux> downloaded A LOT
[10:05] <astraljava> kilonux: Why do you think it downloaded stuff? I really have doubts it could have, when networking setup fails.
[10:05] <astraljava> kilonux: Well anyway, can you pastebin your /etc/network/interfaces file, please?
[10:06] <astraljava> kilonux: Be sure to cover for possible wireless passwords, if any.
[10:08] <kilonux> astraljava: I will transfer this file using my usb flash,  will take some minutes, thanks
[10:11] <kilonux> astraljava:  no need to to use the usb flash: there are only : auto lo   and iface lo inet loopback
[10:12] <kilonux> lspci  is ok :  : intel 3945 abg
[10:13] <astraljava> Wait, does US 10.04 use NetworkManager? Or is it still gnome-network-admin?
[10:13]  * astraljava doesn't have it installed
[10:14] <kilonux> how then connect and get something installed?
[10:18] <astraljava> kilonux: Add a line "iface eth0 inet dhcp" to that file, and do `sudo ifup eth0`, see if the connection is brought up. If not, post errors.
[10:19] <kilonux> ok , I will have to disconnect this machine, then
[10:20] <kilonux> (if I don't find my other cable.......)
[10:29] <kilonux> astraljava:  found the other cable . US 10.4 is now connected on the cable  and outlet that  verified working .
[10:30] <kilonux> ifup  gives : No DHCPOFFERS received
[10:31] <kilonux> No working leases in pers. database - sleeping
[10:36] <astraljava> Hmm... tricky. Lemme browse the net for possible answers.
[10:37] <kilonux> i'm browsing as well, but I'm not very lucky
[10:46] <astraljava> Just to make sure, do `ps -ef | grep Network` and report back whether NetworkManager is running or not.
[10:51] <kilonux> astraljava:  answer is :user  1701 1444 0 11:49 pts/0 00:00:00 grep color auto Network
[10:52] <astraljava> kilonux: No NetworkManager, then. That's good. Open up gnome-network-manager.
[10:54] <kilonux> astraljava: gnome-network-manager :command not found,
[10:55] <astraljava> kilonux: Might be gnome-network-admin, sorry.
[10:55] <kilonux> still not found
[10:55] <astraljava> Hmm....
[10:57] <kilonux> dpkg  says  gnome-network-admin is there
[11:10] <astraljava> dpkg -L gnome-network-admin, does it show something under /usr/bin
[11:15] <kilonux> dpkg-L says usr/bin  and /usr/bin/network-admin
[11:18] <astraljava> Ahh... so there's no gnome- prefix. :) Well, open that up and see what you can do with it for eth0 config. I've never used it, but I believe it's pretty intuitive.
[11:24] <astraljava> One thing that came to mind, do `sudo lshw -c Network`, and check with `lsmod` that the driver mentioned in the first command is loaded.
[11:24] <kilonux> astraljava:  this is  menu- system -admin-network and it is not very exiting
[11:24] <kilonux> ok I' try that
[11:25] <astraljava> kilonux: Yeah it's possible you can't do anything more with it than what we already configured into /etc/network/interfaces.
[11:39] <kilonux> astraljava:  I don't find any mention of driver in lshw, my wlan0 (disabled) and eth0 are there;       And in lsmod the iwl3945 shows up 4 times. I don't recognise eth0 driver
[11:41] <astraljava> kilonux: It should be mentioned there in the "configuration:" line, "driver=" or something. You want to look it up in the "description: Ethernet interface" section.
[11:42] <kilonux> astraljava:  sorry t'was kind of hidden ...
[11:42] <astraljava> kilonux: No prob. :)
[11:43] <kilonux> r8161
[11:43] <astraljava> Is it loaded, ie. can you find it with `lsmod`?
[11:43] <kilonux>  used for mii
[11:45] <kilonux> and  strangely r8169 is also listed under the Module column
[11:45] <astraljava> That's where it should be, if it's loaded.
[11:46] <astraljava> Damn, no luck there, then.
[11:46] <kilonux> quite funny
[11:47] <kilonux> Maybe better that I install the plain ubuntu and then add apps I need
[11:48] <astraljava> Well, you can try getting support also from other channels, and mailing lists first.
[11:49] <astraljava> ...or the forums.
[11:50] <kilonux> yes i havent abandonned yet
[11:54] <astraljava> Some people report problems with acpi, with cards using that same module. Maybe you could try to boot up with acpi=off kernel parameter?
[11:54] <kilonux> would you be able to make a short description of my problem?
[11:54] <kilonux> aha!
[11:55] <astraljava> You could try this too: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/286489/comments/13
[11:55] <kilonux> I never had probs using plain ubuntus - never tried lucid though
[11:56] <kilonux> Sure I'll have a look,
[11:57] <astraljava> Hmm... well then I don't know what could be the reason, don't know the differences in the networking department when comparing US to Ubuntu vanilla.
[11:58] <astraljava> Okay, I need to go for a bit. I'll be back later, hope you find the solution somewhere, if not, I can try to help when I return again. :)
[12:02] <kilonux> solong
[12:05] <Blank__> i know there's something weird with US and dns lookups compared to vanilla Ubuntu
[12:06] <kilonux> Blank__: but u don't know what, is it so?
[12:06] <Blank__> it seems to take too long to query the primary dns server
[12:07] <Blank__> which in my case is automatically assigned from my belkin router as itself, when it has no dns server capabilities
[12:10] <kilonux> i know very little 'bout all that
[12:11] <Blank__> i've managed to more or less solve the issue by running a dns cacher on my server, and directing lookups there
[12:12] <Blank__> cache*


[00:43] <foo123> is the C/C++ interface for libindicator more stable than the python one?
[01:04] <foo123> hello?
[01:08] <RAOF> foo123: Probably a bit late for most of the members of this channel.
[01:09] <RAOF> And what do you mean by “stable” in this instance (it's got multiple distinct meanings, sadly)
[01:09] <foo123> submenus have a reversed order
[01:10] <foo123> it flickers badly
[01:10] <foo123> I can't seem to get any signal that would indicate if the menu is visible
[01:11] <foo123> topic_menu_item.set_state(gtk.STATE_INSENSITIVE) makes the item insensitive
[01:13] <foo123> but I can't set it back
[01:14] <RAOF> I'm not sure about that.
[01:15] <RAOF> So, you're using the “does what the API docs describe” meaning of “stability”, then :)
[01:16] <foo123> set_state(gtk.STATE_NORMAL) does not make it senstive again
[01:17] <foo123> but .set_sensitive(True) works go figure
[01:18] <foo123> the big problem is I don't seem to get any events except the 4 useless appindicator events and the menu "activated" one
[01:20] <foo123> and that if I make a menu a submenu the items are ordered from bottom to top but if I make it a regular menu it is ordered correctly... WHY?!?!
[02:34] <foo123> anyone know anything about indicators?
[02:44] <nigelb> !ask | foo123
[03:25] <foo123> I already asked my question ...
[03:30] <RAOF> foo123: Describing what you're actually trying to do will probably result in a better class of response.
[03:30] <RAOF> Although, again, that response is likely to require waiting until the ayatana people are actually awake :)
[03:33] <foo123> no problem, what time is usually good?
[03:35] <RAOF> UK working hours are generally good.
[03:37] <RAOF> (So, in around 8 hours) :)
[03:38] <RAOF> But, although I'm not particularly familiar with the details of appindicators, it sounds to me like you're possibly trying to do something they're not designed for.
[09:40] <Cimi> hi chaotic
[10:15] <chaotic> Cimi: morning
[10:15] <Cimi> skype man? :)
[10:16] <Cimi> chaotic ^^
[10:17] <chaotic> Cimi: just got a few things I need to do quickly - I'll get hold of you in about 10 mins if that's ok
[10:17] <Cimi> cool
[10:17] <Cimi> I'll wait
[10:33] <Cimi> as always, ott's minutes last twice :))
[10:38] <klattimer> Cimi: I'm really enjoying your new theme
[10:38] <klattimer> keep up the good work :)
[10:39] <Cimi> thanks karl
[10:53] <chaotic> Cimi: actually they last 4 times longer :)
[10:53] <chaotic> Cimi: be there soon
[10:53] <Cimi> ok
[12:25] <klattimer> mpt, seb128 I've just sent you an email regarding the gsd indicator
[12:26] <klattimer> mpt I hope this makes you a little happier with them :)
[13:13] <JanCBorchardt> vish, just saw that you assigned a bug from papercuts to null, should we do that with bugs that are not relevant to papercuts? (this seems to be the only way to unsubscribe papercutters)
[13:22] <vish> JanCBorchardt: yeah, if they are not ppc just switch them over to null
[13:23] <vish> JanCBorchardt: we get enough mails already ;)
[13:23] <JanCBorchardt> vish, cool, I searched for a way to do that just the other day ;)
[13:25] <vish> JanCBorchardt: usually if bug was reported only in ppc, i switch it over to the relevant bug task, if the relevant bug task is already there it goes to null
[13:28] <JanCBorchardt> vish, yep, thanks. I accidentally didn’t switch over then but made it to affect the other project as well.
[13:32] <JanCBorchardt> vish, oh and have you thought about the redirection after unmount thing?
[14:01] <JanCBorchardt> vish, and I just saw that you already nulled the copy-paste bug in the past to no avail ;)
[14:51] <klattimer> mpt: I'd like your comment on this; https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-ubuntu/+bug/620331
[14:51] <mpt> klattimer, sent
[15:07] <klattimer> mpt: replied to you and cc'd mark and tedg as mark's been following this one
[15:07] <klattimer> thing is, we can probably produce all the icons we need now, and use them
[15:08] <klattimer> would be good if ivanka or davidbarth could look into getting the art done
[15:21] <bcurtiswx> hey all, idk if this is a indicator or gwibber issue, but when I'm actively viewing gwibber, why are entries for @replies still showing up in the indicator-me ?
[15:23] <bcurtiswx> i.e i see an @reply visually on gwibber, and it still shows an entry in indicator-me
[15:23] <bcurtiswx> the applet. sorry
[15:42] <foo123> Is the C indicator API less broken than the python one? Right now I have a few issues. My app does not receive signals, underlines are not usable as menu labels, submenus have a reversed order, and the menu items flicker when they are updated. Not to mention to disintuitiveness of "remove from panel" when you right click on the icon
[15:45] <klattimer> foo123: I have the signals problem with ibus
[15:46] <klattimer> if you hang on a tick I'll find you the bug number so you can add your comment
[15:46] <klattimer> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ibus/+bug/564034
[15:46] <klattimer> there you go
[15:48] <foo123> The qustion is should I bother rewriting my indicator in C or should I give up on indicators and go back to implementing it as a panel applet
[16:15] <klattimer> foo123: definitely stick to the indicators
[16:16] <klattimer> tedg: is probably working on the bugs in the python bindings
[16:18] <foo123> I am getting the impression that the bugs are not being fixed for 10.04 LTS
[16:21] <klattimer> foo123: you'd have to ask tedg about that
[16:22] <klattimer> I know sense has fixed one of the bugs you talked about
[16:22] <klattimer> or maybe the same bug, dunno https://bugs.launchpad.net/indicator-application/+bug/608219
[16:55] <tedg> foo123, It's hard to get things backported, but if there is a bug, I have no issue trying to help.
[16:55] <tedg> foo123, Sorry, I was in a meeting.
[17:07] <foo123> I'm trying to figure out what I should do from a LTS standpoint
[17:08] <foo123> I think it might be better for me to wait for the next LTS release at this point
[17:09] <foo123> I need the signals problem fixed so that I can get dynamic menus to work without consuming cpu while unused and to keep it from flickering
[17:10] <foo123> I dont know if the submenus being in reverse order is apython thing or not
[17:11] <foo123> and the underline bug #611943 is something I need fixed
[17:13] <foo123> If these can't get fixed for lucid I'll need to go back to regular applets until the next LTS