[00:00] <gimpnixon> I have two systems. ones a desktop ones a laptop. On the desktop I have successful installed with no issue wine-stable v3.0. this pulled in only wine-stable v3.0. I need v3.0 because for some reason the application I am trying to run does not work on v4.0.2-1. When i try to install wine-stable on my laptop, it manditorily forces me to also install wine v4.0.2-1 wine64 v4.0.2-1 along with wine-stable
[00:00] <gimpnixon> v3.0, going without saying having wine 4.0.2-1 and wine-stable v3.0 installed together causes conflicts and leads also to the application I am trying to run not working. So is there a way to force ubuntu to only install wine-stable v3 and not wine v4 and wine64 v4 along with it? for some reason this "just worked" on my desktop. but is not working on the laptop. both are esentially the same install. and
[00:00] <gimpnixon> both were manually upgraded at the same time from 18.04 to 18.10 to 19.04 to 19.10.
[00:04] <akemlenovo> gimpnixon, What if you try to manually uninstall just the 4.0?
[00:07] <gimpnixon> akemlenovo, you mean 3.0? Like with a ppa, or a deb package??
[00:07] <gimpnixon> That is a possibility i have not tried yet, i was honestly hoping to find a solution that allowed me to stick soley with apt package manager.
[00:07] <nt0> anybody in channel able to speak to how well ubuntu 19.04 works on dell 9560 laptops?  mostly concerned with nvidia-prime, but all info is welcome.  websearch turns up few and conflicting results.
[00:08] <akemlenovo> gimpnixon, on my Ubuntu 18.04 i have only 1 wine-stable and it's 3.0-1
[00:08] <gimpnixon> akemlenovo, Yes, I'm running 19.10. but i've taken this question to #ubuntu+1 and it's its a total ghost town, i havent got a reply form anyone in three days
[00:09] <akemlenovo> gimpnixon, You said you wanted to keep only the v 3.0 because your app works with this one only?
[00:09] <akemlenovo> gimpnixon, Ha ok.
[00:10] <akemlenovo> gimpnixon, try this: dpkg --get-selections | grep -i wine-stable
[00:10] <gimpnixon> It came back with nothing at all
[00:11] <akemlenovo> gimpnixon, did you copy pasted it? no mistake?
[00:11] <akemlenovo> You should have at least one entry.
[00:12] <gimpnixon> the major confusion to me is how the desktop installed wine-stable just fine. and he laptop wants to draw in v 4.0.2-1. I figured apt would realize the version differences and want to omit or remove the other version
[00:13] <gimpnixon> akemlenovo: https://ibb.co/xSBv4jp
[00:13] <gimpnixon> look
[00:14] <gimpnixon> no entry
[00:14] <akemlenovo> gimpnixon, try with just "wine" instead then.
[00:15] <akemlenovo> Instead of "wine-stable".
[00:15] <gimpnixon> Still nothing
[00:16] <sarnold> .. does this mean you have no wine packages at all installed?
[00:16] <akemlenovo> gimpnixon, well... try: apt-get install wine-stable
[00:17] <gimpnixon> as mentioned, I have. and when i do this it trys to install wine v4.0.2-1 and wine64 v4.0.2-1 and wine-stable v3.0 all three at the same time
[00:17] <gimpnixon> all of them all together
[00:18] <gimpnixon> regardless of the conflicting versions
[00:18] <gimpnixon> sarnold, this ma. i do have no wine packages installed at al
[00:18] <gimpnixon> may*
[00:19] <sarnold> can you pastebin the whole output froem the apt-get install wine-stable?
[00:19] <gimpnixon> I can again yes.
[00:20] <gimpnixon> https://pastebin.com/Qn47Ycts
[00:21] <gimpnixon> I have never experienced a time when apt would try to install conflicting packages ontop of eachother
[00:22] <gimpnixon> so is why my mind is boggled right now. I've ran dev branch as soon as they are available and this has been one of the first times that i'm just totally stumped
[00:22] <akemlenovo> Yeah, looks like a conflict in versions.
[00:23] <gimpnixon> sine like ubuntu 14
[00:23] <gimpnixon> i've been run dev branch. and this is a first
[00:23] <gimpnixon> The thing is, The desktop machine does not have this behavior
[00:24] <gimpnixon> Only the laptop. both 19.10
[00:25] <akemlenovo> Maybe there was an update in between, which would explain the version 3.0 on your desktop.
[00:25] <akemlenovo> And the wine-stable package wasn't updated for some reason :/
[00:26] <gimpnixon> version 3.0 should be avalable to me, since its the stable version,
[00:26] <gimpnixon> Even in dev branch you still get stable version of packages, but you also get the new packages as well.
[00:26] <gimpnixon> akemlenovo, yeah i have no idea. its a noggin scratcher
[00:27] <akemlenovo> gimpnixon, I see, i don't know how to solve this either, sorry.
[00:27] <gimpnixon> I thank you guys for your help, I'll keep messing with it. and see waht i can come up with yet. I dont think anything has stumped me forever yet. so It'll either work itself out of I'll get soemthing going.
[00:29] <gimpnixon> The only thing i have different is the sources on the two machines. but I wouldnt think that this would effect the process apt uses to fetch packages
[00:29] <gimpnixon> I'm going to try to set the laptop back to the other sources and see if that has any effect
[00:29] <sarnold> gimpnixon: what does apt-cache show wine-stable | grep Filename: report?
[00:29] <gimpnixon> I switched sources to a different one of the laptop because it was closer
[00:30] <gimpnixon> Filename: pool/universe/w/wine1.6/wine-stable_3.0.1ubuntu1_all.deb
[00:31] <gimpnixon> Stepping away for a couple mins, be back
[00:33] <sarnold> gimpnixon: sooooo.. this wine-stable package exists *only* to install the newer wine package from the wine source package, rather than the wine1.6 package: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wine1.6/1:3.0.1ubuntu1
[00:34] <alexandrdvorkin> hi
[00:35] <gimpnixon> sarnald, so you're telling me 'it's a feature" ?
[00:35] <alexandrdvorkin> can someone tell me why the command sudo dd if=/users/alexandrdvorkin/Downloads/ubuntu-18.04.3-desktop-amd64.dmg of=/dev/rdisk3s2 doesn't not write Ubuntu to my flash drive
[00:36] <alexandrdvorkin> i partitioned it MS-DOS FAT
[00:36] <gimpnixon> sarnold, The weird thing Is that , on my desktop this did not happen, it installed wine-stable alone.
[00:37] <gimpnixon> sarnold, that is an interesting find, thank you
[00:37] <alexandrdvorkin> it doesn't work with Journalized partition either BUT IT WORKED   BEFORE i am on Mac
[00:38] <alexandrdvorkin> it takes the command but all i see is the great rectangle
[00:39] <sarnold> alexandrdvorkin: what's /dev/rdisk3s2?
[00:40] <sarnold> gimpnixon: and you're sure your desktop isn't pre-disco?
[00:40] <alexandrdvorkin> its the usb flashdrive which is disk 3 but then it has the UNTITILED partition underneath it which disk3s2
[00:42] <sarnold> alexandrdvorkin: and why did you write it to a partition rather than just overwriting the whole thing?
[00:43] <alexandrdvorkin> i am trying now to /dev/rdisk3 it returns Resource busy
[00:43] <alexandrdvorkin> i did before it worked from some 3rd time
[00:43] <sarnold> you may need to umount any filesystems..
[00:45] <mvcggsql> hey guys, having trouble seeing if there is a package for php 7.2.22 for ubuntu that addresses recent security bugs.  Has anyone dealt with this yet?
[00:45] <alexandrdvorkin> ok unmounted
[00:46] <alexandrdvorkin> do i write the .dmg or .iso
[00:47] <sarnold> mvcggsql: https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/php7.2.html
[00:48] <gimpnixon> sarnold, both systems were pre-disco
[00:49] <alexandrdvorkin> so either is ok
[00:50] <mvcggsql> sarnold, thank you.  My version of ubuntu is listed as DNE, i'm not sure what that stands for though
[00:51] <sarnold> mvcggsql: that means php 7.2 wasn't packaged for that specific release
[00:51] <sarnold> gimpnixon: aha, this change of wine-stable as a transdition package was introduced in disco
[00:52] <gimpnixon> sarnold, they both have been up with consistent updates together since 17.10 Artful Ardvark
[00:52] <mvcggsql> sarnold, thanks again. I had actually looked at the wrong php version.  So if it is released and I have run apt-get update & upgrade I guess I should have it
[00:53] <sarnold> mvcggsql: which ubuntu release do you have?
[00:53] <gimpnixon> sarnold, i see waht you're saying now though
[00:54] <mvcggsql> sarnold, 18.04.3 LTS
[00:54] <gimpnixon> sarnold, wine-stable is listed as a transitional package on the laptop but not the desktop
[00:54] <gimpnixon> sarnold so that would explain the behavior
[00:55] <mvcggsql> php -v indicates version PHP 7.2.19-0ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>
[00:55] <sarnold> mvcggsql: hmm, apt-cache show php shows that it brings in php7.2..
[00:55] <mvcggsql> I was concerned by 7.2.19 being below 7.2.22, but perhaps the -0ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS> means its updated/secure
[00:55] <gimpnixon> sarnold, so i guess the only option would be to get a .deb of wine v3 like akemlonovo mentioned earlier
[00:56] <sarnold> worth a try
[00:56] <sarnold> or run an old release in a VM
[00:56] <gimpnixon> I'll prbably just wait for it to work itself out I guess. the application i'm trying to run is for pleasure, not business so it's not super pressing.
[00:58] <mvcggsql> sarnold, php -v appears to show the same version number as on the link you provided.  I guess that means i'm running the updated release.  Thanks for you help.
[00:58] <CoolerX> is filezilla ok to use?
[00:58] <CoolerX> I need to share files between ubuntu hosts and windows hosts
[00:59] <CoolerX> using a gui interface preferably
[00:59] <CoolerX> browse files, copy and move files back and forth
[00:59] <CoolerX> the ubuntu hosts have ssh daemon running
[01:09] <leftyfb> CoolerX: try it
[02:07] <cuddylier> Anyone know if repos exist for older versions of Ubuntu 16.04? E.g. 16.04.2. I can't seem to find one, I just find the general latest Ubuntu 16.04 repo.
[02:08] <sarnold> cuddylier: what are you trying to do?
[02:08] <cuddylier> Trying to install Ubuntu 16.04.2 via PXE
[02:08] <cuddylier> It's not something I usually try and do but I have to in this specific case.
[02:10] <sarnold> cuddylier: http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/releases/16.04.2/
[02:10] <cuddylier> Yeah, that's just the ISO though, right?
[02:11] <sarnold> you can hit the "don't install updates during install" to keep all the packages from the iso and not install security updates and bug fixes if that's what you need
[02:11] <cuddylier> I'm trying to find a way to install via PXE though which usually uses the repo for the install process e.g. latest Ubuntu 16.04 installs use http://mirrors.rit.edu/ubuntu/ in my specific case for example.
[02:12] <cuddylier> Which is just the latest repos
[02:12] <cuddylier> So I need to replicate that essentially but for 16.04.2
[02:12] <OerHeks> that is all, there are no in-between repos
[02:12] <cuddylier> Ah :(
[02:13] <leftyfb> cuddylier: why?
[02:13] <cuddylier> Why to what specifically?
[02:13] <sarnold> the dot releases just used whatever HWE kernel was current at the time, whatever updated packages were fixed at the time..
[02:13] <leftyfb> cuddylier: what exactly do you need from 16.04.2?
[02:13] <cuddylier> I have a specific application that doesn't work with later than 16.04.2
[02:13] <leftyfb> cuddylier: what aspect of it?
[02:13] <sarnold> but *why* :)
[02:13] <leftyfb> cuddylier: which application?
[02:13] <cuddylier> I don't know that much unfortunately, possibly the kernel if that's the only difference between the difference 16.04 versions.
[02:14] <leftyfb> cuddylier: you should narrow down exactly what isn't compatible
[02:14] <leftyfb> cuddylier: reverting to previous kernels is fairly easy
[02:14] <sarnold> if that's the case then you can probably just select the original 16.04 LTS release kernel and skip the HWE kernel
[02:15] <cuddylier> My issue with PXE is that it gets all the necessary files from the repo, it doesn't use an ISO.
[02:15] <cuddylier> I know I can do the install manually via ISO without an issue, I want to avoid that though.
[02:16] <leftyfb> cuddylier: first, it could. 2nd, you could tell your pxe preseed/kickstart to install/remove whatever kernel you want
[02:16] <cuddylier> If I changed the kernel, that wouldn't change the system Ubuntu version though, right?
[02:17] <leftyfb> correct
[02:17] <cuddylier> Hmm, I guess manual install then is the only way for now then if I'm not wanting to go into looking into manually changing the kernel :(
[02:17] <cuddylier> Thanks for the help anyway.
[02:17] <leftyfb> figuring out where the incompatibility should be your step #1
[02:18] <cuddylier> Yeah, if this was my whole project then I personally would but I'm simply tasked with installing Ubuntu 16.04.2 and that's it sadly.
[02:20] <leftyfb> sounds pretty ignorant to me
[02:21] <cuddylier> Yeah, just gotta work with what I have sadly.
[02:26] <sarnold> cuddylier: hopefully this can help https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/LTSEnablementStack
[02:27] <cuddylier> Thanks
[02:27] <sarnold> cuddylier: note that the 16.04 release kernel is supported for the lifetime of 16.04. the 16.04.2 HWE kernel hasn't been supported for a while. if you're going to use the HWE kernels then you should keep up with those -- if you're using the release kernel, you can stick on that kernel for ever..
[02:27] <sarnold> cuddylier: and you can swap between the two with a handful of apt-get install ... commands. they aren't great fun to re-invent every time :) I should really do that again some time and write them into the wiki...
[02:28] <sarnold> cuddylier: but hopefully that'll be enough to get you going
[02:28] <cuddylier> :)
[02:57] <sharpie> it seems that apparmor does not allow unbound to write to another file than /var/log/syslog is this the expected behavior?
[02:59] <Whiskey`> Hellos. I am doing a mini.iso install of 18.04 on a xcp host and it acted frozen. checking the resources, the installer ramped up to 16gb and seems to be pegged there.
[02:59] <coffeecow> I'm using Disco Dingo and I can connect to bluetooth speakers and use the speaker test thingy to hear left and right on my bt speakers, but if I actually use winamp or rhythmbox it plays on my laptop speakers..?
[03:29] <Lantorax> coffeecow: if you have a volume icon on your task bar, click that, go to audio mixer, and be sure that the output device for those applications is the bluetooth speaker
[03:33] <destinydriven> Hmm, is anyone currently able to successfully run sudo apt update?
[03:35] <tieinv> sudo apt update works here
[03:36] <destinydriven> @tieinv that's weird.  Doesn't work for two local machines and one remote based in NJ
[03:36] <lotuspsychje> !uptodate | destinydriven
[03:36] <destinydriven> Oh it's working now
[03:37] <destinydriven> Wasn't working for the past 10 minutes
[03:37] <destinydriven> I was getting this error: /usr/lib/apt/methods/http: relocation error: /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libgnutls.so.30: symbol _idn2_punycode_decode version IDN2_0.0.0 not defined in file libidn2.so.0 with link time reference
[06:33] <nugroho> Ubuntu IBM ThinkPad 5.10 breezy badger
[07:16] <Sven_vB> when I use my bionic live session to mount a LUKS LVM with xenial as /target, can I actually pretend to be a bootloader and hand over to the xenial kernel in the LVM?
[07:22] <Sven_vB> oh I guess what I mean is switch_root and that one probably can't load another kernel.
[07:22] <Sven_vB> should it work if I use a xenial live session instead and keep its kernel? could I safely unplug the live CD thumbdrive then?
[08:17] <Qinglan> Hello everyone
[08:17] <Qinglan> I'm looking for help about elf loader.
[08:18] <Qinglan> I'm Chinese.My English may have a lot of error.
[08:18] <tomreyn> Sven_vB: you could kexec the other kernel (or grub, i guess), but i have no experience to share with this.
[08:19] <tomreyn> Qinglan: hi, and welcome to ubuntu support. what's your ubuntu support question? which ubuntu version does it refer to?
[08:20] <Qinglan> My ubuntu ver is 16.04LTS
[08:20] <sub526> Hi All, I'm having an Ubuntu 16.04.4 LTS machine. I enabled the kernel crashdump(sudo apt install linux-crashdump) and tried to test it by issuing the command echo c > /proc/sysrq-trigger, but nothing saved to /var/crash.. how to debug this further, any help is greatly appreciated.
[08:20] <Qinglan> I want to execute the following command:
[08:20] <Qinglan> sudo /etc/init.d/sys5_idl_lmgrd start
[08:21] <Qinglan> but there is an error
[08:21] <Qinglan> /usr/local/exelis/idl83/bin/lmgrd: 459: exec: /usr/local/exelis/idl83/bin/bin.linux.x86_64/lmgrd: not found
[08:22] <tomreyn> Qinglan: software in /usr/local/ is not part of ubuntu, thus not supported here. i suggest you seek help from the developers / via their support channels
[08:22] <Qinglan> I'm sure that there is the right file lmgrd at /usr/local/exelis/idl83/bin/bin.linux.x86_64
[08:25] <macroprep> how do i aquire the linux kernel sources, as i tried sudo apt install linux-source-5.0.0 but i cant seem to find the source for the kernel itself in /usr/src/
[08:25] <tomreyn> sub526: did you reboot after installing linux-crashdump?
[08:25] <Qinglan> tomreyn: OK.This is the first time for me using IRC
[08:26] <tomreyn> sub526: ..and before triggering the kernel crash?
[08:26] <Qinglan> tomreyn: Thanks for your time.
[08:26] <tomreyn> Qinglan: you're welcome. good luck!
[08:28] <sub526> tomreyn: Yes, rebooted after installation. dmesg log has "Reserving 128MB of memory at 752MB for crashkernel (System RAM: 3987MB)"
[08:31] <tomreyn> sub526: /etc/default/kdump-tools should define where the crash dump is stored
[08:32] <tomreyn> also see https://help.ubuntu.com/lts/serverguide/kernel-crash-dump.html#verification
[08:33] <TJ-> macroprep: linux-source Depends: on the actual version, e.g. linux-source-4.15.0, which in turn installs to /usr/src/linux-source-4.15.0/
[08:34] <TJ-> macroprep: if the package was installed, check where it installed files, with "dpkg -L linux-source-5.0.0"
[08:36] <sub526> tomreyn: kdump-tools has KDUMP_COREDIR="/var/crash", but nothing saved in /var/crash after simulating the kernel crash (i followed the steps https://help.ubuntu.com/lts/serverguide/kernel-crash-dump.html#verification)
[08:41] <macroprep> TJ-: i know
[08:44] <TJ-> sub526: do you see "Begin: Saving vmcore from kernel crash " in the dmesg after the reboot?
[08:46] <macroprep> brothercomplex@Anime-X555BA:~$ apt-get source linux-kernel Reading package lists... Done E: Unable to find a source package for linux-kernel brothercomplex@Anime-X555BA:~$ apt-get source linux-kernel-5.0.0 Reading package lists... Done E: Unable to find a source package for linux-kernel-5.0.0
[08:50] <TJ-> macroprep: do you have all the deb-src entries required in APT's sources.list{,.d/*/list} for the archive components those packages are in?
[08:51] <tomreyn> sub526: hmm, i don't know then. i can try to test it on a VM in a bit.
[08:52] <TJ-> macroprep: the parent source package is/should be linux-meta
[10:38] <Onepamopa> has somoeone rebooted a server w/o any space left on / ?
[10:41] <EriC^^> Onepamopa: did you try to use autoremove --purge to remove some stuff?
[10:42] <Onepamopa> it's a citrix xen installation, only 10G in /, tried to delete what I could but it filled up fast, now I can't figure out what's filling it and if I would be able to reboot successfully ..
[10:43] <EriC^^> Onepamopa: try "sudo du -sh /*" to see where the space is
[10:43] <EriC^^> Onepamopa: or if you can manage to install ncdu, that would be helpful
[10:45] <TJ-> Onepamopa: /var/log/  /var/cache/ /tmp/ are likely candidates
[10:55] <Onepamopa> EriC^^, TJ- nop, there weren't any candiadates, I killed 3 running tapdisk processes and whoa, 7.7G free
[10:57] <tomreyn> Onepamopa: make sure your xenserver is up to date, there were a lot of issues with tapdisk in the past.
[10:58] <Onepamopa> mine is quite an old version - 6.5
[11:00] <tomreyn> i don't think that's supported anymore, but you'll better check with their support channels
[11:02] <tomreyn> eol was 26-Jun-18 according to https://www.citrix.com/support/product-lifecycle/legacy-product-matrix.html
[11:13] <BluesKaj> Hi folks
[11:20] <asumo> i am using ubuntu 16.04 lts, i turn off my internal mic from alsamixer on the terminal and for some reason it turns back on sporadically
[11:21] <asumo> other than physically removing the mic from my laptop is there a way to permanently turn off the mic?
[11:24] <asumo> any experts kind enough to give me some advice?
[11:24] <asumo> any help is appreciated
[11:24] <BluesKaj> asumo, did you mute it (MM)?
[11:25] <asumo> ive muted it and turned it off on alsamixer
[11:25] <asumo> turned the levels all the way down, guess it is muting it
[11:26] <asumo> the thing is even if i unmute it in teh sound settings the mic does not work, it turns on from the alsamixer
[11:26] <asumo> i just want to know why the alsamixer or ubuntu turns the mic back on
[11:26] <asumo> even though it is muted in teh sound settings
[11:28] <asumo> my webcam does not do it, i turned it and its modules off pre boot with modprobe
[11:28] <BluesKaj> asumo, after muting it , run sudo alsactl store
[11:29] <asumo> BluesKaj: what does that command perform?
[11:29] <asumo> thanks for the advice
[11:30] <BluesKaj> it saves your alsamixer settings
[11:30] <asumo> i just realized that
[11:30] <asumo> perfect solution
[11:30] <asumo> thank you my friend
[11:31] <asumo> BluesKaj: so it is a startup issue then huh?
[11:31] <asumo> the settings do not stay after reboot?
[11:31] <BluesKaj> sometimes after an upgrade you may have to reset alsmixer
[11:32] <BluesKaj> a reboot should not change the settings
[11:32] <asumo> i thought the same
[11:32] <asumo> thank you
[11:32] <BluesKaj> ok
[11:32] <asumo> have a good one guys :)
[11:42] <markweston> I did a do-release-upgrade from 18.04 to 19.04 and now gnome is broken
[11:42] <markweston> error while loading shared libraries: libsoup-2.4.so.1: cannot open shared object file
[11:43] <vlt> markweston: Did you skip 18.10?
[11:44] <markweston> yes
[11:44] <markweston> I mean do-release-upgrade skipped it for me
[11:44] <vlt> markweston: (If they didn't change that) you have to
[11:44] <vlt> markweston: Hmm, then I don't know.
[11:46] <markweston> this is the output of 'ldd $(which gnome-control-center)': https://termbin.com/03cze
[11:47] <markweston> as you can see there are multiple versions of libsoup-2.4 required and all of them are missing despite the package being installed
[11:48] <markweston> I found this command written in 2008 that reinstalls all the packages: for pkg in `dpkg --get-selections | awk '{print $1}' | egrep -v '(dpkg|apt|mysql|mythtv)'` ; do apt-get -y --force-yes install --reinstall $pkg ; done
[11:48] <markweston> should I try it?
[11:53] <markweston> here's the problem, I think: libsoup2.4-dev is already the newest version (2.66.1-1).
[11:56] <ioria> markweston, paste  dpkg -l | grep libsoup
[11:57] <Flexman> hi
[11:57] <Flexman> the lubuntu task bar sometimes disappears after a restart or takes place on the other end of the screen etc.
[11:57] <Flexman> how can i get this more stable?
[11:58] <markweston> ioria: here you go: https://termbin.com/cbtn
[12:02] <ioria> markweston, ldd  /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libsoup-2.4.so.1.8.0 |awk '{print $1}' | xargs dpkg -S| cut -d ':' -f1 | xargs dpkg -l
[12:07] <markweston> looks like reinstalling libsoup and libsoup-gnome fixed, i'll check after reboot
[12:52] <arinov> transfering file from phone via bluetooth is pain
[12:52] <lotuspsychje> !info blueman | arinov try this
[12:53] <arinov> lotuspsychje: is it makes my tranfers from phone better?
[12:54] <lotuspsychje> arinov: blueman is a package, handy to use for bluetooth
[12:55] <MJCDawy> Why can't I select text in the cli/tty's ?
[12:55] <MJCDawy> using shift+home
[12:55] <MJCDawy> or other key combos
[12:56] <pragmaticenigma> arinov: It would help if you would provide a better explanation of what you're experiencing. Without stating what exactly is happening, the best volunteers here can do is offer a few tools that may help, but may not help as well.
[12:58] <pragmaticenigma> MJCDawy: That is a feature that has never been available. You can use other tools within a TTY session that offer that functionality, such as "screen" and "gpm"
[12:58] <arinov> i am selecting some pictures in my phone default file browser and i am trying to transfer it to my u18 laptop, it works after 3-5 tryes with 2-3 bluetooth service restart actions
[12:59] <pragmaticenigma> arinov: Perhaps use a USB cable instead?
[12:59] <arinov> the device was paired and the other computers works with it just fine
[13:00] <MJCDawy> pragmaticenigma, but why would it never be available
[13:00] <MJCDawy> it's like
[13:00] <MJCDawy> extremely basic surely
[13:00] <MJCDawy> in terms of usability of a shell
[13:00] <arinov> pragmaticenigma: so i need a usb cable to make bluetooth work fine or what?
[13:00] <MJCDawy> even hitting down I dont get an empty line
[13:00] <MJCDawy> so I have to hold down backspace
[13:00] <MJCDawy> like an ape ?
[13:01] <MJCDawy> I know I can get mouse support with xorg but xorg is the last thing I want
[13:02] <MJCDawy> and even then I have to use a mouse to do the select
[13:02] <MJCDawy> and dont even think I can just start typing over
[13:02] <MJCDawy> it's only for copy and paste I believe
[13:02] <MJCDawy> like...
[13:02] <MJCDawy> it's 2019
[13:02] <pragmaticenigma> !enter | MJCDawy
[13:02] <pragmaticenigma> !ot | MJCDawy
[13:02] <MJCDawy> are we just going to use the same cli forever
[13:02] <lotuspsychje> MJCDawy: this isnt the complaints channel
[13:02] <MJCDawy> the same one that they had when they were making linux
[13:03] <pragmaticenigma> MJCDawy: You've moved into an offtopic discussion now, please visit #ubuntu-offtopic if you would like to continue.
[13:03] <MJCDawy> lotuspsychje, it's an observation that it's really, really weird to just disregard features of near every device linux/ubuntu are used on
[13:03] <MJCDawy> ubuntu is meant to be the UX centric distro
[13:03] <MJCDawy> so to me the above apathy is directly conflicting with that goal
[13:03] <lotuspsychje> MJCDawy: and it doesnt fit in this channel, drop it please
[13:04] <lotuspsychje> MJCDawy: only ubuntu support questions here
[13:04] <MJCDawy> "how to get mouse support in cli"
[13:04] <pragmaticenigma> !ops | MJCDawy is offtopic
[13:04] <MJCDawy> -_-
[13:04] <MJCDawy> lotuspsychje, to append to this concise question; "without xorg"
[13:06] <Cheez> MJCDawy: gpm should do that.
[13:06] <Cheez> http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/bionic/man8/gpm.8.html
[13:06] <MJCDawy> Cheez, do I need to use something other than bash with that?
[13:06] <pragmaticenigma> MJCDawy: I told you at the beginning how to get the feature you desired. And literally is the first result when searched for: https://lmgtfy.com/?q=mouse+support+in+tty
[13:07] <MJCDawy> pragmaticenigma, you seem frustrated, but i'm not biting. Have a wonderful day /ignore
[13:08] <chymera> hi guys, I am having issues with skypeforlinux (reinstalled it and restarted the machine). When I click the icon or execute it from the CLI, it fails to start with no error message... any idea what's wrong?
[13:08] <Cheez> MJCDawy: i just created a machine and tried it and it seems to work out of the box quite nicely
[13:08] <MJCDawy> Cheez, yeah this looks perfect, thanks heaps.
[13:09] <MJCDawy> Do you/anyone know about pressing down and getting a new line at the end of the command buffer ?
[13:09] <MJCDawy> that too is my only other major usability problem
[13:09] <pragmaticenigma> chymera: are you using the Snap version or the package from apt?
[13:18] <chymera> Version <IP_ADDRESS> ... I appears this probelem was also known in other versions https://askubuntu.com/questions/994522/skypeforlinux-8-13-0-2-still-fails-to-start-on-ubuntu-14-04-lts
[13:21] <pragmaticenigma> chymera: the version number doesn't tell me the source of how you installed Skype. Also, the link you posted is from Ubuntu 14.04 which is really outdated.
[13:30] <logikos> I need help troubleshooting a permissions issue.  my box is running ubuntu with a user logikos with userid 1000 .. also group logikos with gid 1000 ... www-data is another user with id 33
[13:31] <logikos> I have a docker container with www-data user with user id 33 ... and a mounted volume from host .. which has dir's chmod to 775
[13:31] <logikos> on host www-data is in logikos group and logikos is in www-data group
[13:32] <logikos> in container user 1000 does not exist, so I ssh into it and create a user with id 1000, then put that user in www-data  group and put www-data in it's group
[13:32] <logikos> yet a php process running as user www-data can not write in the dir
[13:32] <logikos> within the container
[13:33] <logikos> the container is also ubuntu
[13:37] <SorcererBoom> hey how does ubuntu get that custom gnome terminal look?
[13:37] <SorcererBoom> what packages does ubuntu include?
[13:38] <arunpyasi> @sajoupa, I am having a hash mismatch from security for bionic
[14:17] <logikos> anyone know to change apache to use uid0 instead of uid33 ..
[14:20] <pomeha> hello, I'm using chromium and I need flash plugin, how to install it?
[14:20] <pomeha> I've installed 'pepperflashplugin-nonfree' package and restarted chromium - it didn't work
[14:27] <ioria> pomeha, remove that; enable Canonical Partner; apt update; install adobe-flashplugin
[14:27] <pomeha> ioria: thanks!
[14:27] <iffraff> Hi, I have a large screen.  some of my applications, when I start them up seem to know where to position themselves and at what size, and other do not. e.g. chrome will always pile up the browsers on whatever is the main monitor, where as slack and rubymine are in the right spot at the right size.  Is this configurable?
[14:27] <ioria> ok
[14:28] <bane> Anyone know if it's possible to take a folder containing some files and turn it into a mountable .img?
[14:28] <pomeha> bane: snap somehow does that
[14:28] <pomeha> well, they do the opposite, actually
[14:28] <bane> xD
[14:29] <bane> I'm trying to install some drivers on a system that i'm accessing via kvm, unfortunately only allows you the mount isos or image file
[14:29] <bane> so i'm wondering if i can pacckage the drivers into an iso or img
[14:32] <Habbie> bane, mkisofs is pretty easy to use, in my distant recollection
[14:32] <bane> Habbie, thanks! I'll look into that
[14:33] <Habbie> but, if the kvm is not too picky
[14:33] <Habbie> you could also just make a tar
[14:33] <Habbie> 'mount' that in the kvm
[14:33] <Habbie> and unpack from /dev/sdX :)
[14:33] <bane> hmmm
[14:34] <bane> that's a great idea
[14:34] <bane> i'll try that as well
[14:35] <pragmaticenigma> logikos: Apache should never run as root
[14:36] <pragmaticenigma> logikos: Also, questions regarding containers should be sent to forums dedicated to the container program that you are using. I.E. Docker based instances should be directed at the Docker community
[14:39] <mgedmin> logikos: for running inside docker?  I think you need to change APACHE_RUN_USER/APACHE_RUN_GROUP in /etc/apache2/envvars
[14:39] <logikos> pragmaticenigma: i understand, and I'm asking in several different channels as there are several different services involved
[14:40] <mgedmin> assuming your docker container is based on ubuntu (or debian)
[14:42] <pragmaticenigma> logikos: Please don't cross post... Anything to do with a docker container should be directed towards the developer of the docker container or the docker community. The setup of apache within the docker container will not match the documentation that UBuntu provides for it's packaging of Apache, volunteers here may not provide you with the most accurate information.
[14:46] <logikos> pragmaticenigma: I was posting in #docker until this issue, which seemed to be distro specific so I came here, relax man
[14:46] <zamba> are there any fundamental differences between ubuntu minimal and ubuntu desktop?
[14:46] <iffraff> I have found an app called devilspie which I think can help me with my window placement.  Has anybody any experience with this?
[14:46] <zamba> meaning: can you install packages on ubuntu minimal to get it up to a standard ubuntu desktop?
[14:46] <logikos> the ppl in #docker told me to ask here lol
[14:47] <Habbie> zamba, yes, you can
[14:47] <zamba> Habbie: is the kernel different?
[14:47] <lotuspsychje> logikos: we handle ubuntu issues here
[14:48] <Habbie> zamba, oh, i'm not sure if there are different default kernels for the two, but all kernels are available in apt-get
[14:52] <doug16k> bane, genisoimage is the almost identical to mkisofs, and exists in the ubuntu package manager
[14:53] <doug16k> so identical they are practically interchangeable
[14:55] <Habbie> ah, nice
[14:58] <bane> gotcha
[14:58] <bane> thanks guys
[15:13] <iffraff> Hi, when I boot my machine I get a grub window that give me 3 options, something like boot normally,  boot in rescue, and somethign else.  standard sutff. However, if have a usb-a device plugged into the computer that screen freezes.  is this something someone can help me with ?
[15:14] <mgedmin> apt has a nice progress bar
[15:15] <mgedmin> so why doesn't do-release-upgrade enable it???
[15:15] <lotuspsychje> !discuss | mgedmin
[15:17] <pragmaticenigma> iffraff: It is best not to boot a machine with removable storage devices attached, unless you're intending to boot from that device
[15:19] <tomreyn> iffraff: or you can reconfigure your bios not to boot off the usb
[15:19] <mgedmin> iffraff: it sounds like a bios problem; have you checked the bios setup for boot device priority settings?
[15:19] <mgedmin> I've a similar problem where my home "server" fails to boot (doesn't even get to the grub menu) if the external usb hdd is plugged in
[15:20] <mgedmin> unfortunately it seems to be a bios bug because no amount of boot device selection settings fixes it
[15:20] <mgedmin> no unattended-upgrade reboots for me
[15:20] <lordcirth_> It's surprising how often BIOS has bugs.
[15:21] <iffraff> Hi, well, it's not a storage device actually, it's any device, I have a hub with some peripherals on it, no storage though.  I feel like I checked bios but I'll check again
[15:21] <leftyfb> iffraff: tried one of the peripherals without the hub?
[15:27] <iffraff> leftyfb: yes actually I have, I think it was the logitech wireless mouse thing.  same result
[15:27] <zamba> i'm experiencing extreme stuttering on my ubuntu installation
[15:27] <zamba> it seems like there's a "pulse" every second or so
[15:27] <lordcirth_> iffraff, have you looked for bios updates from the manufacturer?
[15:28] <lordcirth_> zamba, What Ubuntu version? What graphics card and driver?
[15:29] <B|ack0p> hi. can i install Ubuntu 18.04 - 64bit inside SD card?
[15:31] <lordcirth_> B|ack0p, yes, but it will be quite slow
[15:31] <SirScott> trying to create a python virtualenv on a live 19.04 desktop.  apt install python3-venv --> Package python3-venv is not available, but is referred to by another package.  Yes, i have done 'apt update'.   I really need it and I have no idea what to do.. The ONLY audio I have is those pops you hear when you change the volume. (Strange) It used to be ONLY the speaker test that I could hear (Even stranger). What is going on?! Thanks
[15:33] <pragmaticenigma> B|ack0p: You could, but it wouldn't perform very well. It would be the same process as making a USB drive. The computer's BIOS/Firmware does need to support booting from SD cards too
[15:33] <lordcirth_> iffraff, firstly, only do it if the manufacturer's update says that it fixes your issue. Secondly, follow the instructions on the manufacturer's page, if they have Linux (or generic) instructions.
[15:34] <iffraff> k, but I think I'll use this as a last resort.
[15:34] <mgedmin> SirScott: did you run sudo apt update?
[15:34] <mgedmin> iirc you need to do that before apt install anything-at-all will start working in a live session
[15:34] <B|ack0p> pragmaticenigma: well i tried once i couldnt install inside SD card. if it will be very slow then no need to try again.. i was considering to extend my actual space
[15:35] <iffraff> has anyone used devilspie for window placement? ( i have two issues :) )
[15:37] <SirScott> mgedmin: yes
[15:38] <mgedmin> and apt install python3-venv still fails?  weird; what apt mirrors are you using?
[15:40] <SirScott> mgedmin: https://bpaste.net/show/R38k
[15:40] <pragmaticenigma> !patience | frib
[15:41] <pragmaticenigma> SirScott: try "apt install python3-defaults"
[15:41] <frib> pragmaticenigma, you mean from when I asked the other day?
[15:41] <mgedmin> SirScott: most likely /etc/apt/sources.list only enables the 'main' component; python3-venv is from universe
[15:41] <pragmaticenigma> frib: Sorry... I was scrolled up and thought you had repeated
[15:42] <frib> pragmaticenigma, no, but no problem
[15:44] <SirScott> mgedmin: mgedmin: success, thanks a lot!
[15:54] <mgedmin> wheee another failed upgrade, how fun
[16:02] <mgedmin> looks like my own fault, in a sense: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ca-certificates/+bug/1843607/comments/2
[16:08] <zamba> lordcirth_: lspci shows 5b:00.0 VGA compatible controller: NVIDIA Corporation GP108 [GeForce GT 1030] (rev a1)
[16:09] <zamba> lordcirth_: kernel driver in use: <nvidia>
[16:11] <tomreyn> zamba: and your ubuntu version is?   nc termbin.com 9999 < <(lsb_release -ds;cat /proc/{version,cmdline};echo "Session: $XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP ($XDG_SESSION_TYPE)";echo Shell: $SHELL)
[16:14] <zamba> tomreyn: the system is not able to connect to the internet, so that command won't work
[16:14] <zamba> it's 10.04.3 LTS
[16:14] <zamba> ubuntu:GNOME and x11
[16:15] <zamba> Linux version 4.15.0-62-generic (buildd@lcy01-amd64-024) (gcc version 7.4.0 (Ubuntu 7.4.0-1ubuntu1~18.04.1)) #69-Ubuntu SMP Wed Sep 4 20:55:53 UTC 2019 | BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-4.15.0-62-generic root=/dev/mapper/vgroot-lvroot ro
[16:15] <zamba> https://askubuntu.com/questions/1105528/ubuntu-18-04-video-stutters-every-second-regularly-with-nvidia-gpu
[16:15] <zamba> this describes my problem more or less exactly
[16:24] <mgedmin> welp upgraded this server to bionic and it fails to boot fully: mdraid devices get mounted, lvm volumes except for the root volume don't even get entries names in /dev/mapper/
[16:25] <shlomif> Hi all! how do i get sound working on alsa instead of pulseaudio on ubuntu bionic 18.04 on an intel nuc? i folloed https://kodi.wiki/view/PulseAudio/HOW-TO:_Disable_PulseAudio_and_use_ALSA_(without_removing_PulseAudio)_for_Ubuntu and restarted but no sound. there was sound with pulse in ff but not in mpv/vlc
[16:26] <tatertots> shlomif: did your sound work before you did that?
[16:26] <tatertots> shlomif: has your sound EVER worked?
[16:27] <eeepc>  I'm trying to install a couple of software with lots of config in /etc and other directories
[16:27] <tatertots> shlomif: ok so should works in certain applications and not in others
[16:27] <eeepc> i need to mount an overlayfs. and once Im done testing I need to trash all those changes
[16:27] <mgedmin> is this https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lvm2/+bug/1573982 ?
[16:29] <eeepc> don't want to start with a live usb I'l have to install a lot of dependencies and libraries already there on my current system
[16:29] <linuxconformer> guys im getting "WebSocket connection to example.com failed: Error during WebSocket handshake: Unexpected response code: 404"
[16:30] <eeepc>  is there any way I can mount an overlay on my current system.
[16:33] <rypervenche> eeepc: You definitely can.
[16:33] <shlomif> tatertots: it did work in firefox
[16:35] <pragmaticenigma> linuxconformer: More information is needed for anyone to be able to help you. Also, if you a developing an application, this forum focuses it's attention to the Ubuntu desktop and software provided through Ubuntu's official software repositories. You may need to seek out help in another channel.
[16:36] <destinydriven> Hey guys, so it seems apt upgrade is triggering errors again. My system was up to date as of yesterday so is it possible that some recent upgrade caused this?
[16:37] <eeepc> rypervenche, can you help me do that
[16:37] <lordcirth_> destinydriven, please post exactly what error it is. Pastebin if it's long.
[16:37] <eeepc> or point me to the resource where i can learn it from
[16:37] <destinydriven> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/R24nWFZ44G/
[16:37] <destinydriven> @lordcirth_ ^^
[16:38] <eeepc> running ubuntu 18.04
[16:38] <rypervenche> eeepc: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Overlay_filesystem
[16:38] <destinydriven> Correct
[16:38] <lordcirth_> destinydriven, oh, that's not good. 18.04, I see? You were entirely up to date yesterday?
[16:38] <destinydriven> Yes I was totally up to date as of yester
[16:38] <destinydriven> yesterday
[16:38] <lordcirth_> destinydriven, what is your uptime? Do you have any PPAs or other third-party repos?
[16:39] <destinydriven> Uptime was days. I did a restart about a week ago
[16:39] <destinydriven> I do have 3rd party repos
[16:40] <lordcirth_> destinydriven, please list them.
[16:40] <rypervenche> eeepc: I would recommend adding it to your your fstab then rebooting.
[16:40] <destinydriven> Persona, nginx,
[16:40] <destinydriven> percona*
[16:41] <tomreyn> zamba: did you mean 18.04.3 by chance? since 10.04.3 is oooold
[16:42] <eeepc> rypervenche, I might need to tear it multiple times without a reboot
[16:42] <tomreyn> zamba: if you can get and post a full   journalctl -b     output (you can redirect the output to a file using e.g.    journalctl -b &> /tmp/journal.log   ) i can have a look.
[16:43] <destinydriven> @lordcirth_, any idea how to fix this?
[16:43] <rypervenche> eeepc: The reason I say this is because there may be processes that are holding onto files before you create your overlayfs and they will still be acting directly on /etc and not your overlayfs, unless you have the overlayfs mount on boot.
[16:43] <lordcirth_> destinydriven, just percona and nginx? I wouldn't expect those to break this. Are both repos specifically for 18.04?
[16:44] <destinydriven> Yes all repos are for 18.04
[16:45] <tomreyn> zamba: also, maybe before you get the logs, try disabling all gnome-shell extensions which don't come packaged with ubuntu.
[16:45] <destinydriven> lordcirth_ there's also ondrej php
[16:46] <Rich_Morin> Running `dpkg -s accerciser` provides quite a bit of information, but I'm unclear how to track the package back to an archive. For example, although dpkg says accerciser is version 3.31.4-1, https://packages.debian.org/buster/accerciser lists it as version 3.22.0-7.
[16:47] <mgedmin> welp udev is not running pvscan for me, whyyy?
[16:47] <lordcirth_> destinydriven, well, you said it broke recently. So I would look at /var/log/apt/history.log and see what broke it.
[16:47] <destinydriven> Ok, I shall look
[16:50] <destinydriven> Upgrade: linux-libc-dev:amd64 (4.15.0-60.67, 4.15.0-62.69)
[16:50] <destinydriven> Upgrade: libsystemd0:amd64 (237-3ubuntu10.28, 237-3ubuntu10.29), udev:amd64 (237-3ubuntu10.28, 237-3ubuntu10.29), libudev1:amd64 (237-3ubuntu10.28, 237-3ubuntu10.29), systemd-sysv:amd64 (237-3ubuntu10.28, 237-3ubuntu10.29), libpam-systemd:amd64 (237-3ubuntu10.28, 237-3ubuntu10.29), systemd:amd64 (237-3ubuntu10.28, 237-3ubuntu10.29), libnss-systemd:amd64 (237-3ubuntu10.28, 237-3ubuntu10.29), libidn2-0:amd64 (2.0.4-1.1build2, 2.2.0-1+ub
[16:50] <destinydriven> untu18.04.1+deb.sury.org+1)
[16:51] <destinydriven> Those are the upgrades from yesterday
[16:51] <destinydriven> I dunno
[16:57] <ioria> destinydriven, i think libidn2-0 (2.2.0-1+ubunutu18.04.1+deb.sury.org+1)) is related to your errors here (https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/R24nWFZ44G/)
[16:57] <destinydriven> Yeah I just saw this. I'm downloading the file right now.
[16:57] <destinydriven> This fix worked for some people hours ago
[16:58] <shlomif> tatertots: it works when i connect headphones! so the speakers are the issue
[16:58] <shlomif> tatertots: bye
[16:58] <ioria> destinydriven, that version of libidn2-0 might not be compatible with  libgnutls
[16:59] <destinydriven> Ionia, can I go ahead and try this fix:  https://askubuntu.com/questions/1173306/relocation-error-error-code-127-after-last-updates
[16:59] <arinov> hey guys whats a snap directory in my home?
[17:00] <Aavar> arinov: snap configs mostly.
[17:00] <DArqueBishop> arinov: that holds config information for snap apps.
[17:00] <ioria> destinydriven, if apt is dead, yes, it's the only fix
[17:00] <destinydriven> Ionia, thanks
[17:00] <ioria> gl
[17:03] <destinydriven> @ioria @lordcirth_  thanks. That saved me
[17:03] <shlomif> hi
[17:03] <ioria> destinydriven, good job
[17:03] <arinov> Aavar: DArqueBishop: yah, ok, but why not in .local or something thoughtful
[17:03] <destinydriven> Sigh of relief :D
[17:04] <destinydriven> One more question though. This same update that broke apt is appearing again
[17:04] <destinydriven> libidn2-0/bionic 2.2.0-2+ubuntu18.04.1+deb.sury.org+1 amd64 [upgradable from: 2.0.5-1]
[17:04] <arinov> maybe it will be better to save all configs in the / or the desktop, without any folders
[17:05] <DArqueBishop> arinov: as near as I can tell $HOME/snap is the default config save location as defined by snapcraft.
[17:05] <arinov> DArqueBishop: not great, not terrible
[17:06] <elfie> mm
[17:06] <arinov> because its not in .local
[17:06] <arinov> trash in my home directory structure
[17:10] <ioria> destinydriven, 2.0.5-1 is for disco and that ppa still reports 2.2.0-2  for bionic (but see libidn2  9 hours 30 minutes ago ; Successfully built )
[17:10] <destinydriven> @ioria all seems well now, thanks
[17:10] <ioria> destinydriven, ok
[17:10] <destinydriven> I didn't know apt could get broken like that
[17:16] <ioria> destinydriven, apt depends on libgnutls30 that depends on libidn2-0; you modify libidn2-0 and boom !!!
[17:17] <destinydriven> The domino effect
[17:17] <ioria> yep
[17:18] <destinydriven> Good thing I check for updates like daily haha
[17:24] <Rich_Morin> How can I reach a web page (ala https://packages.debian.org/buster/accerciser) for a package version that is installed on my Ubuntu system?
[17:25] <Rich_Morin> For example, my version of accerciser is 3.31.4-1
[17:25] <sarnold> Rich_Morin: there's a similar packages.ubuntu.com service https://packages.ubuntu.com/disco/accerciser
[17:25] <lordcirth_> Rich_Morin, https://packages.ubuntu.com/
[17:26] <Rich_Morin> tnx!
[17:26] <sarnold> Rich_Morin: depending upon what you're trying to do the launchpad source package page may be more useful https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/accerciser
[17:28] <blizzow> What's the right way to install python3 as the default for ubuntu 19.04 globally? Is there a right way?
[17:30] <tomreyn> blizzow: i'm not sure that's a safe thing to do, system software may still expect python to default to 2.x
[17:32] <blizzow> Okay, what about if I want to swap it out as the default for my own user?
[17:32] <blizzow> There are 6354 howtos that all seem different.
[17:33] <blizzow> virtual environments, update-alternatives, manually symlinking python...
[17:43] <sarnold> blizzow: do not swap /usr/bin/python or /usr/bin/python3 names around. applications expect the "python" programming language to use /usr/bin/python and the "python3" programming language to use /usr/bin/python3. if you fiddle with these you *will* break things
[17:45] <Habbie> blizzow, for your own user, put something inside your homedir early in PATH and stick a 'python' in there that does what you want
[17:46] <sarnold> yes this is fine and good. I don't know about virtualenv end of things, or personal scripts ends of things, I just know that the /usr/bin/python and /usr/bin/python3 names refer to different programming languages and you shouldn't mix them :)
[17:47] <sarnold> I maintain the python community would have done everybody a favour to call "python3" "blackadder" instead :)
[17:49] <ikanobori> The Python community documented what distros could do pretty well 8 years ago: https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0394/
[17:49] <ikanobori> And quite a few of the major distros follow that.
[17:52] <sarnold> iirc that came out because arch tried making /usr/bin/python run the python3 programming language and Everything Broke ..
[17:53] <dax> ayup
[18:14] <seven-eleven> what ports do i need to open for nfs server on ubuntu?
[18:15] <shlomif> seven-eleven: hi
[18:15] <shlomif> seven-eleven: nfs, nis,
[18:15] <shlomif> seven-eleven: udp/tcp
[18:17] <seven-eleven> looks like i did it right then
[18:18] <seven-eleven> i opened udp/tcp of 111, 2049
[18:18] <seven-eleven> then I configured rpc mount to use a specific port and opened its udp/tcp too
[18:19] <seven-eleven> RPCMOUNTDOPTS="--port 54938"
[18:19] <seven-eleven> shlomif, is it normal that `systemctl status nfs-server` says service "started (exited)"
[18:19] <seven-eleven> exited sounds bad
[18:19] <seven-eleven> but there's no error message :(
[18:20] <shlomif> seven-eleven: do you see the green circle?
[18:20] <seven-eleven> yes
[18:21] <seven-eleven> shlomif, https://bpaste.net/show/Ojew
[18:21] <seven-eleven> if i try mounting the exported nfs share it failing
[18:21] <seven-eleven> but no error message either
[18:21] <seven-eleven> hehe
[18:26] <shlomif> seven-eleven: can you use wireshark?
[18:26] <seven-eleven> ok
[18:26] <seven-eleven> on the host right?
[18:27] <rindolf> seven-eleven: yes
[18:28] <seven-eleven> rindolf, oh, which interface should I listen to consider my host is the hypervisor of my client (guest)
[18:28] <seven-eleven> ah i have to listen to br2 (the bridge)
[18:29] <seven-eleven> because the guests NIC are all tied to br2
[18:38] <seven-eleven> rindolf, http://dpaste.com//1DFCNGK
[18:40] <rindolf> seven-eleven: looks like no reply was received
[18:40] <seven-eleven> mhm
[18:41] <seven-eleven> rindolf, reply by client or host?
[18:42] <rindolf> seven-eleven: reply from server to client
[18:43] <seven-eleven> so my server is borked
[18:43] <rindolf> seven-eleven: a client also has a host
[18:45] <seven-eleven> rindolf, but the server looks fine, no errors :|
[18:47] <seven-eleven> my /etc/exports has just this entry: /mnt/12tb01/phserver01 <IP_ADDRESS>(rw,sync,no_subtree_check)
[18:49] <rindolf> seven-eleven: ok
[18:50] <seven-eleven> what about rpc port, I configured a specific port on the server @/etc/default/nfs-kernel-server
[18:50] <rindolf> seven-eleven: is there a firewall in between?
[18:50] <seven-eleven> do i have to configure the same port on the client @/etc/default/nfs-common?
[18:50] <seven-eleven> rindolf, yes but i opened all ports
[18:50] <seven-eleven> let me paste
[18:50] <rindolf> seven-eleven: i think you also need rpc
[18:51] <seven-eleven> rindolf, http://dpaste.com/3RP8YTG
[18:51] <seven-eleven> rindolf, seems firewall drops packages... [39:2340] -A INPUT -p tcp -m tcp --dport 2049 -j DROP
[18:51] <seven-eleven> but why
[18:51] <rindolf> seven-eleven: note that i'm not an nfs expert - i just follow tutorials
[18:53] <rindolf> seven-eleven: do the logs say why?
[18:53] <seven-eleven> now it matches the accept rule, but it still not mounting
[18:53] <seven-eleven> nope
[18:57] <FrameFever> how do I change a directory rights so that everybody can read from it?
[18:57] <seven-eleven> the client is stuck @ mount.nfs: trying text-based options 'vers=4.2,addr=<IP_ADDRESS>,clientaddr=<IP_ADDRESS>'
[18:57] <akemlenovo__> chmod a+r /directory
[18:57] <seven-eleven> FrameFever, chmod -R a+r /direc
[18:57] <seven-eleven> FrameFever, sorry missing +x
[18:58] <seven-eleven> without +x other users can't traverse through it
[18:58] <soloslinger> I know the security implications of turning this off, but is there a way to tell Apt to ignore/be-cool-with self signed certs?  I set trusted=yes, but it's still whining about it for some reason.
[18:58] <seven-eleven> but don't do `chmod -R a+xr`, do instead: `chmod a+rx /dir`
[18:59] <sarnold> soloslinger: what specifically are you seing? apt doesn't really do *certs*, it does *keys*..
[18:59] <FrameFever> seven-eleven: does x not make it executable?
[19:00] <seven-eleven> FrameFever, the directory x means other users can go inside the dir
[19:00] <soloslinger> sarnold: sudo apt-get update yields a "Certificate verification failed: ... NOT trusted" then a "E: Failed to fetch https://"
[19:00] <seven-eleven> FrameFever, on a file it means you can run the file
[19:00] <soloslinger> sarnold: Docker, specifically, is what I'm trying to fool with.
[19:01] <seven-eleven> soloslinger, can you try sudo update-ca-certificates
[19:02] <sarnold> soloslinger: okay, cool, check apt-transport-https manpage for instructions on how to set the CA for the https transport
[19:02] <soloslinger> sarnold: Gotcha.  Thanks!
[19:03] <soloslinger> seven-eleven: ( I think the $dayjob does some intercepting of https traffic. )
[19:06] <amosbird> hmm, ld provides -z undefs to revert --no-undefine
[19:06] <amosbird> but ld.gold doesn't have that option
[19:18] <grammoboy2> does ubuntu uses lvm2 as default at installation?
[19:19] <grammoboy2> looks like a dualboot is screwed here
[19:20] <ioria> grammoboy2, for encryption ? yes it uses lvm
[19:25] <xavier23> Hello guys is there any disadvantage to running smartd? Especially on a laptop to detect any disk errors?
[19:28] <unshackled> hey whats the nam,e of the channel for the next release i think it was #ubuntu_plus_one or soenthing like that?
[19:29] <unshackled> I cant find it on the server list for some odd reason
[19:30] <leftyfb> !ubuntu+1 | unshackled
[19:30] <unshackled> ty
[19:36] <maxtim> I have debian server with samba shares connected to an ubuntu server install on a rasp pi. I'm using fstab to auto mount the share using cifs. Something I noticed today is that the permissions are different on the UbuBox compared to the DebBox. I'm positive this is a smb.conf issue. What might I be doing wrong?
[19:40] <FrameFever> seven-eleven: how can I make it recursive?
[19:40] <seven-eleven> -R
[19:40] <seven-eleven> FrameFever, for only directories use find
[19:41] <seven-eleven> find /your/dir -type d -exec chmod a+rx {} \;
[19:44] <unshackled> maxtim did you use the root account on Deb?
[19:44] <maxtim> unshackled, to do what?
[19:54] <rindolf> that is strange: connecting and disconnecting the audio jack makes the sound on the amplifiers work
[19:57] <rindolf> hax!
[20:16] <mdemo> I don't like software-controlled heaphone jacks at all!
[20:16] <mdemo> but that's the way everything has gone
[20:16] <leftyfb> !ot | mdemo
[20:20] <n-iCe> hi
[20:47] <frad> what command should I use to update firmware on a ssd that is not nvme?
[20:52] <EriC^> frad: you probably need to check the ssd manufacturers site for updates and info i guess
[20:53] <frad> EriC^, I already downloaded the iso image and located the bin file. I only need a command. for my nvme I used nvme-cli
[20:53] <frad> EriC^, its a samsung
[20:54] <EriC^> ah
[20:59] <flog> How do I change the keyboard layout for X? can set the layout I'm using with setxkbmap se dvorak_a5, but wih the dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration the layout is not shown.
[21:15] <PeaceTea> hi, just installed ubuntu 19.04 on hp pavilion laptop. screen keeps rotating i tried google the only thing that seems to work is the "xrand -o normal" command.
[21:29] <CaptainN> 3+
[21:34] <monkle> Can anyone point me the right direction for repairing a boot loader?
[21:38] <OerHeks> hi monk see the grub manual and wiki
[21:38] <OerHeks> !grub
[21:42] <Pr070cal> hi
[21:42] <Pr070cal> 10:14 PM <Pr070cal_> how can i make a / /system /home partions so system is readonly holds my distro and is readonly then changes to system in root and my home partition
[21:42] <Pr070cal> 10:16 PM 10:15 PM <Pr070cal_> like android
[21:42] <Pr070cal> 10:16 PM 10:15 PM <Pr070cal_> system is read only
[21:42] <Pr070cal> 10:16 PM 10:15 PM <Pr070cal_> and new fw overwrites system but doesnt touch the daya and the rest
[21:42] <Pr070cal> 10:16 PM data
[21:48] <Pr070cal> can i symlink folders like bin and etc on a new partition and make root read only
[21:50] <tomreyn> you could use an overlay file system, like the live system does
[21:50] <tomreyn> but i'm not able to guide you there.
[21:53] <Pr070cal> thats a good idea
[22:47] <becool> is there a way to rollback an apt upgrade?
[22:47] <becool> other than backup/snap
[22:48] <sarnold> if you've got a root-on-zfs system, you could use that. but if you're asking, you probably don't have that..
[22:51] <tomreyn> you can downgrade packages if their earlier versions are still available. this can fail and is not suüpported, though (but usually just works)
[22:53] <sarnold> yeah, depending upon the package in question..
[22:55] <Pr070cal> how do i make my / install readonly and /home read write and changed to / on another partition ?
[22:55] <Pr070cal> so a fresh install would still have all my changes to / and home
[23:06] <john_rambo> Hi, This is the first time I am using Redshift. Should I use it with default settings or will it be better to tweak it?
[23:11] <Pr070cal> https://askubuntu.com/questions/719311/install-persistent-version-of-usb-onto-a-hard-drive
[23:12] <Pr070cal> read only system partiton with changes to root and home on persistance partition
[23:12] <sarnold> john_rambo: last time I tried it I think I had to tell it my lat/lon manually
[23:12] <Pr070cal> now you can put the new distro on the read only partitin and still have changes to root
[23:13] <Pr070cal> then unmount persistance and mount a different one on usb
[23:13] <john_rambo> sarnold, I don't need automation. I can start it manually. I was asking about changing the color temperature from the default if thats possible
[23:14] <sarnold> john_rambo: ah, I didn't fiddle with those, that seemed to work fine on its own
[23:15] <john_rambo> sarnold, Okay. Then I will leave it alone. Thanks
[23:34] <kinghat> if i was going to move files from windows to nix via usb what would be a good format for said usb?
[23:34] <kinghat> usb thumb drive
[23:35] <kinghat> cant remember if ubuntu reads NTFS out the box
[23:35] <sarnold> I think it does via the ntfs-3g package
[23:36] <kinghat> is there one that is 100% between the two?
[23:36] <sarnold> if both systems are on one network though scp or rsync would probably be faster
[23:36] <sarnold> no, the filesystem semantics of both systems are pretty different. ntfs comes closest. there's also fat32 but that just feels funny you know?
[23:36] <akemlenovo_> Depends of the network speed, for me it's faster over USB.
[23:37] <sarnold> akemlenovo_: is that a nice usb device or terrible network or both? :)
[23:38] <akemlenovo_> sarnold, USB 3 versus poor Wifi :)
[23:38] <sarnold> akemlenovo_: is that to an ssd in an enclosure? or a "stick"?
[23:38] <akemlenovo_> I'd go for NTFS.
[23:39] <akemlenovo_> sarnold, regular stick or hdd.
[23:40] <sarnold> akemlenovo_: well, good point.. even non-ssd can do 100MBps if it's writing big blocks.. cool, thanks
[23:48] <pedrocr> is there any way to diagnose broken/flaky suspend/resume? all I see in logs is going to suspend and then a normal boot when resume fails
[23:52] <Sven_vB> is there an easy way to enumerate all /dev/[hs]d* that have (list 1) the bios_grub flag and (list 2) have the esp flag?
[23:54] <Sven_vB> btw I solved the first stage of my cryptsetuo problem from yesterday (cc @TJ-), I was missing the "export " keyword in front of my CRYPTSETUP=yes and CRYPTROOT=….
[23:55] <Sven_vB> later I'll have a look at making my own local-block script to mount the LVM.
[23:55] <Sven_vB> (except some crypttab enthusiast wants to evangelize me. :D)
[23:56] <flog> pedrocr: running ubuntu on ryzen?
[23:58] <pedrocr> flog: no, it's a Lenovo T460s, why?
[23:59] <flog> There is apparently a bug with suspend on linux 5.sometthing on ryzen.
[23:59] <flog> pedrocr: nice, just got myself a T495. so highfive!


[00:00] <isforinsects> mhall119:  I like your myst-like game idea.
[00:01] <mhall119> thanks
[00:01] <mhall119> maybe one day I'll have the time to make it a reality
[00:01] <isforinsects> bencrisford: No worries.  The team doesn't have special access to bzr anyway.  Doesn't the edubuntu advocacy team have a repo somewhere?
[00:03] <isforinsects> mhall119: I would be interested in working on the art/imersion parts.  Also, I would be willing to brainstorm/write puzzles to solve.  I don't believe my python-foo is strong enough to implement that part.
[00:03] <isforinsects> I'm pretty partial to pyturtle (aka logo)
[00:07] <mhall119> isforinsects: cool, coming up with puzzle ideas i'll definitely need help with
[00:08] <mhall119> maybe I'll make a prototype that people can use to build their own levels
[00:13] <isforinsects> mhall119: write up a spec
[00:13] <isforinsects> That is easy for me to commit to working on.
[00:13] <isforinsects> I am working on a spec for a program to explore atomic chemistry.
[00:13] <mhall119> have you seek katomix?
[00:14] <mhall119> or something like that
[00:14] <mhall119> there's also a periodic table program in the KDE-edu suite
[00:14] <isforinsects> Choose how many of what elements to put into the workspace, and see them combine into molecules while showing representations of the various valence electron levels.
[00:14] <isforinsects> I reviewed all that I could find.
[00:15] <mhall119> oh that would be cool
[00:15] <isforinsects> I just looked at screenshots of katomics unfortunately, I didn't want to install enough kde stuff to run it.
[00:15] <isforinsects> There are a good number of periodic table applications.  And a great number of HARD CORE molecular modeling applications.
[00:16] <isforinsects> But none inbetween.
[00:17] <isforinsects> my goals are to invote deeper intuitive understanding of the relationships of the facts displayed on a periodic table and the chemical interactions.
[00:19] <bencrisford> isforinsects: there is a bzr branch for the team, for marketing materials etc.
[00:19] <bencrisford> I thought I made it so any member of the team could push to it
[00:19] <isforinsects> It's pretty easy for those who are 'left-brain' learners to pick up fundimental understandings of atomic chemistry.
[00:19] <isforinsects> for which team?  the edubuntu team in general?
[00:19] <bencrisford> the edubuntu-advocacy team
[00:20] <isforinsects> https://edge.launchpad.net/~edubuntu-advocacy/+related-software
[00:20] <isforinsects> ?
[00:21] <bencrisford> isforinsects: https://edge.launchpad.net/~edubuntu-advocacy/+junk/edubuntu-advocacy
[00:22] <bencrisford> the readme explains everything I think
[00:23]  * bencrisford needs sleep, later guys
[00:23] <bencrisford> :)
[00:35] <mhall119> isforinsects: if you want to help me brainstorm: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/mhall119/PythonGameIdea
[00:49] <mhall119> etaliverto:^^
[02:00] <isforinsects> mhall119: updated
[03:18] <isforinsects> anyone still awake?
[04:18] <mhall119> highvoltage: you lied
[04:22] <mhall119> I think
[04:23] <mhall119> it looks like Ubiquity does use lsb-release
[04:25] <mhall119> maybe not
[04:25] <mhall119> it gets distro name from there, but I'm not sure where it's using it
[04:25] <mhall119> then it's getting something else from /cdrom/.disk/info
[04:36] <mhall119> dang this code is all over the place
[04:43] <mhall119> making changes to one of those (or both) did the trick, the install now says it's installing Qimo, rather than Xubuntu
[04:44] <mhall119> I'll try changing lsb-release back and see if it still works
[04:44] <mhall119> I probably owe you an apology
[07:58] <highvoltage> mhall119: lsb_release has the same information whetheer you're using Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Edubuntu, Cubuntu or Lubuntu, so we can safely assume it's not lsb_release :)
[08:03] <alkisg> cubuntu?!!
[08:21] <etaliverto> Morning all, mhall119 - will look at that wiki page after my first coffee :)
[09:31] <highvoltage> alkisg: yes, cubuntu. that's xubuntu with a typo :)
[09:32] <alkisg> highvoltage: heh, google says that there is indeed an unmaintained cubuntu (console ubuntu)  :)
[10:32] <zerlgi> Edubuntu FTW. thanks highvoltage & team.
[10:36] <highvoltage> thanks zerlgi
[10:37] <highvoltage> zerlgi: I blog about it a lot but stgraber did just as much :)
[10:37] <zerlgi> ... sure.
[10:38] <zerlgi> Revolution Linux #ftw
[10:47] <stgraber> hehe
[11:01] <highvoltage> :)
[11:28] <bencrisford> :( I've been putting off all my school-work/OW-prep until today..  and now im starting to regret it
[13:25] <frederickjh>  Hi all!  I am looking to up grade my LTSP server that we are using at home. It is a P4 3.2Ghz.  Things have slowed down considerable upgrading to ltsp-5 on Ubuntu so I am wondering if anyone out there has any advice regarding performance differences between Intel DualCore (multiple cores) and Intel Core 2 Duo (multiple processors).
[13:27] <zerlgi> Intel dualCore or CoreDuo is only 32-bit capable, Core2Duo is usually 64-bit capable.
[13:27] <zerlgi> check for L1 Cache size. That is probably the most important issue for a multi-core system.
[13:27] <zerlgi> ... ie never, ever use a Celeron.
[13:28] <zerlgi> ... imho, 32-bit is fine, how many 64-bit compatible thin-clients are there anyway?
[13:32] <frederickjh> How big a L1 cache?
[13:37] <frederickjh> The ones I am looking at have a L2 cache of 3M or 2M. I do not see a mention of L1 cache.
[13:38] <mhall119> thanks highvoltage, I'm gonna have to make a wiki of all these little bits of info that aren't documented anywhere
[15:13] <isforinsects> morning all
[15:13] <mhall119> morning isforinsects
[15:30] <bencrisford> morning isforinsects ;)
[15:33] <isforinsects> mhall119: did you take a look at my example exercise?
[15:34] <mhall119> I did late last night, yes
[15:34] <mhall119> I like it
[15:34] <mhall119> writing an efficient sorting/cataloging algorithm is definitely something to include
[15:37] <isforinsects> mhall119: I had a hard time sleeping last night (it's hot here). I ended up thinking about attaching symbolism to computer science constructs.
[15:38] <isforinsects> A color and symbol on in-game objects to signify that said object's datatype.
[15:40] <mhall119> hmm, interesting idea
[15:40] <mhall119> I too was up thinking about it a lot
[15:41] <mhall119> I've decided that we should use bzr to put all the snippets under version control, so they can undo changes
[15:41] <mhall119> also, maybe in the future, they can collaborate with friends online, merging snippet changes back and forth
[15:44] <bencrisford> mhall119: on friday i'm running an OW session on gaming, was wondering whether you'd like to briefly talk about qimo..?
[15:44] <mhall119> I shold be able to
[15:44] <bencrisford> at the moment I haven't included much about educational games in my prep
[15:44] <mhall119> I'll be at work though
[15:45] <mhall119> so no guarantees
[15:45] <bencrisford> and it could be a good chance to spread the word about qimo
[15:45] <mhall119> I need to finish Qimo 2.....
[15:45] <bencrisford> mhall119: ok, I will prepare some stuff in case you cannot make it :)
[15:45] <mhall119> I got part of the Ubiquity stuff done last night, need slides now
[15:45] <mhall119> bencrisford: if you cover the games in Edubuntu, you'll pretty much cover what I have in Qimo
[15:47] <bencrisford> mhall119: well at the moment, I haven't actually prepared anything about educational games
[15:47] <bencrisford> then like 5 minutes ago it hit me that I really should :P
[15:48] <bencrisford> then I thought of you :)
[15:48] <mhall119> lol
[15:48] <bencrisford> because there will probably be a load of people in the session with young kids
[15:48] <mhall119> definitely talk about edubuntu too
[15:48] <bencrisford> yeah, I will
[15:49] <mhall119> I have my last final this week, then hopefully I'll have a final version of Qimo the following week
[15:49] <mhall119> then I can finally upgrade my laptop to Lucid
[15:52] <bencrisford> :)
[15:55] <isforinsects> mhall119: As for structure, I was thinking that we could do this as a classic myst style hypercard stack point-and-click for navigation and create all of the exercises so they are pretty stand-alone.
[15:55] <sbalneav> Morning all!
[15:56] <isforinsects> morning
[15:56] <sbalneav> highvoltage: ping
[15:56] <mhall119> isforinsects: that's kind of my idea too
[15:56] <mhall119> it'll be easier that giving free range of motion
[15:57] <sbalneav> \o/ Year end is over, my life is returning to normal
[15:57] <sbalneav> win 2
[15:57] <sbalneav> win 2
[15:57] <mhall119> sbalneav: lucky
[15:57] <sbalneav> buh
[15:57] <mhall119> I have one final left
[15:57] <sbalneav> University?
[16:01] <mhall119> yeah
[16:02] <mhall119> finally finishing my bachelor's degree
[16:03] <sbalneav> Congrats!
[16:08] <mhall119> thanks, one more year to go, if I can get all the classes I need without a scheduling conflict
[16:08] <highvoltage> sbalneav: pong
[16:09] <highvoltage> mhall119: wow, congratulations!
[16:13] <sbalneav> highvoltage: So, year-end's over, and I can start getting back into the swing of things.  There's some package bugs I think I can fix, how does the new workflow work?  Should I update the package, post to my ppa, and have you or stgraber upload?
[16:14] <highvoltage> sbalneav: basically, since you're part of the edubuntu council you're automatically part of edubuntu-dev as well
[16:14] <sbalneav> highvoltage: Also, I'm going to pick this up again, and finish it off, so we can more onto re-working LDM: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ltsp/+spec/libpam-sshauth
[16:15] <highvoltage> sbalneav: so you can technically upload any edubuntu-specific stuff at this stage, for other stuff it will need to be sponsored, the best way to do it is to create a bug if there isn't one already and to attach your debdiff to the bug report
[16:15] <sbalneav> OK, I'll start in on that.
[16:15] <highvoltage> sbalneav: it's quite easy, I think you already know how to do that but if you need any help give me a ping
[16:19] <alkisg> Sorry for the offtopic, could someone tell me what's the correct preposition? "die of tumor" or "die from tumor"?
[16:19] <mhall119> from I think
[16:20] <alkisg> Thank you :)
[16:25] <sbalneav> alkisg: "Died of a tumour" will also work.
[16:29] <mhall119> that too
[16:34] <stgraber> sbalneav: we have a rewritten ldm somewhere on LP btw
[16:34] <stgraber> sbalneav: using a non-fullscreen greeter + plugin infrastructure for authentication
[16:34] <stgraber> sbalneav: currently with a good old SSH (using expect) module and a RDP one
[16:35] <stgraber> sbalneav: that's the work vvinet and simpoir made (finished last month IIRC)
[16:35] <sbalneav> stgraber: Ah, cool
[16:35] <isforinsects> mhall119: sorry I keep idling busy morning -_-
[16:35] <sbalneav> love to see it, we'll plug the pam into that, then.
[16:35] <stgraber> I haven't had much time to look at it yet though but if it's confirmed to work in a compatible way to what we have at the moment, I'll probably merge that into ldm-trunk soon
[16:36] <isforinsects> mhall119: what's your major?
[16:36] <stgraber> sbalneav: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~revolution-linux/ltsp/ldm-trunk-nlnet
[16:55] <mhall119> isforinsects: information technology
[16:56] <mhall119> it's like CS, only less math and theory
[16:57] <mhall119> I couldn't transfer into the CS program with my AS degree for some reason
[17:07] <sbalneav> mhall119: Trust me, unless you're doing something theoretical in your job, you'll NEVER use any of the math or theory.
[17:08] <sbalneav> Queing theory in networking turns into: "Geez, time to upgrade to gigabit networking"
[17:09] <sbalneav> Theory of Computation an Big-Oh notation turns into: "Why did you roll your own sort algorithm rather than use python's internal sort, you schmuck!"
[17:10] <sbalneav> And database theory turns into "Meh, throw another index on that table"
[17:10] <sbalneav> :)
[17:11] <sbalneav> Every other problem gets solved by: "Guess we need more ram/cpu/hard disk"
[17:11] <bencrisford> sbalneav: lol
[17:26] <bencrisford> mhall119: saw you were asking about a U1 game store
[17:27] <bencrisford> its on the brainstorm
[17:27] <bencrisford> and in the ubuntu-gaming mailing list
[17:27] <bencrisford> if you havent already seen it :)
[17:30] <bencrisford> https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-gaming/msg00263.html
[17:44] <isforinsects> sbalneav mhall119  well it's two different fields.  CS is proving math on a computer, programming is building things.
[17:46] <isforinsects> I'm domewhere in the middle of the two schools: programing is fundimentally hard, programing is fundimentally easy.
[17:52] <sbalneav> isforinsects: Programming is fundamentally bug-ridden :)
[17:53] <isforinsects> heh
[18:02] <mhall119> bencrisford: I hadn't seen it, but glad it's being discussed
[18:05] <isforinsects> mhall119: since we're in the brainstorimg phase of the cycle, is there a cache of educational application ideas anywhere?
[18:07] <mhall119> what do you mean?
[18:08] <mhall119> sbalneav: with the exception of the math, I'm learning all those other things
[18:08] <mhall119> it's really very little difference between the IT and CS coursework
[19:36] <bencrisford> what are everyones thoughts on timetabling software?  because I think it would be a great thing to include in edubuntu
[19:36] <bencrisford> at the moment me and a friend are planning on making a simple one
[19:37] <bencrisford> and I thought edubuntu would be a great way to distribute it, schools could use it for class timetables and students for revision
[19:37] <bencrisford> http://www.filebuzz.com/fileinfo/46408/iMagic_Timetable_Master.html - something like that
[19:57] <sbalneav> bencrisford: We talking about calendaring/scheduling? Or Multiplication Tables?
[19:57] <bencrisford> sbalneav: scheduling :), sorry should have made that clear :P
[19:58] <sbalneav> Group calendaring would be handy.  We're currently examining Davical as the backend here at work.
[19:58] <sbalneav> Evolution's CalDAV support will plug into that.
[19:59] <bencrisford> sbalneav: ah ok, but I was thinking this could be specifically designed for class timetables and revision
[19:59] <bencrisford> that way it can be more simple and quick and easy to use
[20:00] <bencrisford> I was thinking you could also maybe have a feature where you say "I have a math exam coming up" and then if you dont include it in your revision
[20:00] <bencrisford> it can say "dude, you gotta revise maths!"
[20:00] <bencrisford> maybe without the "dude" though :)
[20:03] <sbalneav> No, I think having the software address you as "Dude!" is absolutely mandatory.
[20:03] <sbalneav> "Bro" or "Broheim" would also be acceptable.
[20:04] <sbalneav> "Brobuntu"
[20:04] <sbalneav> "Linux for Bro's"
[20:08] <mhall119> "Dude you're getting an error!"
[20:09] <mhall119> ln -s /usr/bin/sudo /usr/bin/dude
[20:39] <sbalneav> lol
[20:40] <sbalneav> dude apt-get upgrade
[20:40] <bencrisford> haha
[20:40] <sbalneav> I love it.
[20:41] <HedgeMage> hey, guys...
[20:41] <HedgeMage> I could really use some help coming up with an alternative site design based on the new branding
[20:42] <HedgeMage> I've been trying for days, but I got nothing
[20:42] <sbalneav> Hmmmm.
[20:42]  * HedgeMage grumbles
[20:42] <sbalneav> "Needs more cowbell^H^H^H^Hpurple"
[20:43]  * HedgeMage bops sbalneav
[20:43] <HedgeMage> sbalneav: no, et really, really doesn't :P
[20:43] <sbalneav> Got a pointer to one of your ideas?
[20:43] <sbalneav> I thought on go-live day the site looked new.
[20:43] <HedgeMage> Only the one for the old branding -- I've got NOTHING for the new stuff
[20:43] <HedgeMage> nah, they just changed the logo
[20:44] <sbalneav> ah
[20:44] <sbalneav> What's the name of the font being used now in the branding?
[20:48] <HedgeMage> I have no clue, though the topic in #ubuntu-artwork indicates that its under a closed license so we can't use it in any way for the rest of the site :/
[20:49] <bencrisford> :O that sucks
[20:49] <bencrisford> HedgeMage: so you have the art?  but you're having trouble making it work in a design?
[20:51] <HedgeMage> bencrisford: yeah, just got the logo like 2 days before launch (Canonical's doing, not highvoltage's) that's why the new site isn't up.
[20:51] <bencrisford> ah ok
[20:51] <highvoltage> hey HedgeMage!
[20:51] <HedgeMage> (For anyone who's interested, I plan to still include the old-branding theme, because I like it better, as edubuntu-oldschool and you can change to it in your profile so you see what when logged in.)
[20:52] <HedgeMage> highvoltage: I feel like I'm letting you down :(  I have NO ideas for a theme with the new <muttered obscenities> logo.
[20:52] <highvoltage> HedgeMage: you're not, don't stress about it
[20:52] <bencrisford> stgraber: a few weeks ago I asked you if I would be able to stick an edubuntu web button made by me on my blog and I think you said that was ok, what about on a friends site?  is that still OK or does it need to be like "official web buttons" only?
[20:52] <highvoltage> HedgeMage: the work that you've done still fixes most of the current bugs on the site
[20:53] <highvoltage> HedgeMage: It would probably best to do the switch and then do the theme seperately
[20:53] <bencrisford> that sounds like a better idea to me as well :D, the ubuntu website hasnt switched yet anyway
[20:54] <HedgeMage> highvoltage: That works.  I'm swamped tonight (work and a critical bug I need to patch before drupal7 can go to beta), but tomorrow night after I get home from the dojo, I'll work on getting the new site rolled out if someone with access to put files and a DB on the server will be available late in the evening.
[20:56] <highvoltage> HedgeMage: I'll be here and ready.
[20:58] <HedgeMage> highvoltage: awesome.  LF goes to bed about 8pm EDT, so I'd be ready around 9 or 10 depending on if he has trouble sleeping again.
[21:19] <highvoltage> HedgeMage: ok :)
[21:57] <HedgeMage> highvoltage: it's a date then :)
[22:05] <highvoltage> HedgeMage: kewlies!


[02:34] <nigelb> nperry: can describe what happens?
[08:14] <dholbach> good morning
[08:15] <nigelbabu> dholbach: jono asked me to tell you that the progress bar should link to the cleansweep homepage when clicked on
[08:15]  * nigelbabu has no clue how its done though
[08:15] <dholbach> I'll do it later on
[08:15] <nigelbabu> ok :)
[08:16] <nigelbabu> how was your conference?
[08:16] <dholbach> good
[08:16] <dholbach> quite busy though
[08:27] <nigelbabu> :)


[00:37] <andru183> hey tdr112 been a while since I've been near IRC, was talking to someone today working for redhat and we spoke about the loco and made me miss UH's and general talking and stuff


[02:26] <vychune> hey whos new bot?
[02:29] <wrst> vychune:  mine... its a stupid bot
[02:29] <vychune> lol
[02:29] <vychune> what does it do?
[02:31] <wrst> .weather livingston tn
[02:31] <testbot8570> Cloudy, 80.6℉ (27℃), 29.95in (1011mb), Calm 0kt (↑) - KCHA 00:53Z
[02:31] <wrst> .google ubuntu
[02:31] <wrst> .g ubuntu
[02:31] <testbot8570> wrst: http://www.ubuntu.com/
[02:32] <wrst> .wik ubuntu
[02:32] <testbot8570> "Ubuntu (philosophy), an ethical concept of African origin" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu
[02:32] <wrst> testbot8570: tell vychune hello
[02:32] <testbot8570> wrst: I'll pass that on when vychune is around.
[02:32] <vychune> nice
[02:32] <testbot8570> vychune: 01:31Z <wrst> tell vychune hello
[02:32] <wrst> vychune:  that's more or less it :)
[02:32] <vychune> cool
[02:32] <wrst> testbot8570: !
[02:32] <vychune> can you make me one?
[02:33] <vychune> lol
[02:33] <vychune> .weather 38116
[02:33] <testbot8570> Scattered, 80.6℉ (27℃), 29.82in (1006mb), Gentle breeze 10kt (↑) - KMEM 00:53Z
[02:33] <wrst> vychune: http://inamidst.com/phenny/
[02:33] <wrst> testbot8570: http://inamidst.com/phenny/
[02:33] <wrst> testbot8570!
[02:33] <testbot8570> wrst!
[02:35] <vychune> kick testbot8570
[02:35] <vychune> lol
[02:35] <vychune> just wanted to see a response
[02:35] <vychune> .t
[02:35] <testbot8570> Sun, 22 May 2011 20:35:33 CDT
[02:36] <vychune> testbot8570: tell wrst hes a dork
[02:36] <testbot8570> vychune: I'll pass that on when wrst is around.
[02:36] <vychune> LOL
[02:36] <wrst> testbot8570!
[02:36] <testbot8570> wrst!
[02:36] <testbot8570> wrst: 01:36Z <vychune> tell wrst hes a dork
[02:37] <wrst> i know that vychune :)
[02:37] <vychune> im having to much fun
[02:37] <vychune> im having to much funhe would love this
[02:38] <vychune> correction: he would love this
[02:41] <wrst> i'm going to mess with itsome here soon
[02:42] <vychune> oh i will too lol
[02:44] <vychune> aw man i was just about to tell cyber something
[02:44] <wrst> give it just a second :)
[02:44] <vychune> hey perfect it man its your project
[02:45] <wrst> hmm he isn't wanting to restart :\
[02:47] <wrst> ha there it is
[02:47] <wrst> ubuntu-tn-infobo: tell vychune hello
[02:48] <vychune> and there it isnt lol
[02:49] <wrst> ok leaving him alone for a while
[02:49] <vychune> lol
[02:49] <vychune> .t
[02:49] <infobot-tn> Sun, 22 May 2011 20:49:20 CDT
[02:50] <vychune> infobot-tn: tell wrst leave ya alone
[02:50] <infobot-tn> vychune: I'll pass that on when wrst is around.
[02:50] <wrst> ha ha
[02:50] <infobot-tn> wrst: 01:49Z <vychune> tell wrst leave ya alone
[02:50] <vychune> LOL
[02:53] <vychune> i hate PC troubleshooting at home w/ mom
[02:55] <wrst> what's wrong with it?
[02:58] <wrst> .weather 38570
[02:58] <infobot-tn> Cloudy, 21℃, 1016mb, Gentle breeze 8kt (↑) - GCTS 01:30Z
[02:59] <vychune> not the computer. my mom
[03:00] <vychune> everytime i do it she makes computer reference for my smarts
[03:04] <wrst> ha ha
[04:14] <vychune> o/
[04:49] <orangeninja> you up cyberanger ?
[06:26] <cyberanger> hey orangeninja
[06:45] <orangeninja> sorry I missed you i was on another screen..../
[06:54] <cyberanger> what's up
[11:31] <wrst> .weather Livingston TN
[11:31] <infobot-tn> Cloudy, 66.2℉ (19℃), 30.00in (1013mb), Mist, Light air 3kt (↑) - KCHA, 09:53Z
[11:59] <cyberanger> wrst: ... with a 100% chance of linux
[12:36] <cyberanger> wrst: just hate the weather out west
[12:37] <cyberanger> enough damage from tornados already, then that
[12:46] <wrst> bad weather on the way cyberanger
[12:47]  * wrst just heard abotu MO
[12:47] <cyberanger> for me seems unlikly
[12:47] <cyberanger> maybe a stray drop at worst
[12:47] <cyberanger> you however, oh boy
[12:49] <cyberanger> you've got something brewing, and it's not the coffee
[12:52] <wrst> ahh must be staying to the north cyberanger
[12:52]  * wrst needs to look at a radar
[12:53] <cyberanger> wrst: yep, some is hitting dunlap, that's fringe
[12:53] <cyberanger> straight east
[12:54] <cyberanger> great deal in nashville already based on Radar
[13:13] <cyberanger> you all have a good day, I don't expect to be online too much for the next 48 to 72 hours
[13:13] <cyberanger> just a normal move is all
[13:13] <wrst> ok cyberanger be careful will talk with you later
[13:14] <cyberanger> I'll be checking in here and there though, so if I'm needed, shoot (please, without live ammo though)
[13:15] <cyberanger> wrst: thanks, small place, shouldn't be bad, just time to do it is all
[13:16] <wrst> see you later cyberanger
[15:33] <wrst> infobot-tn: tell Xpistos hello :)
[15:33] <infobot-tn> wrst: I'll pass that on when Xpistos is around.
[15:35] <cyberanger> *infobot-tn says hello master wrst
[15:42] <Xpistos> infobot-tn: tell wrst What's up!
[15:42] <infobot-tn> Xpistos: I'll pass that on when wrst is around.
[15:42] <infobot-tn> Xpistos: 14:33Z <wrst> tell Xpistos hello :)
[15:42] <Xpistos> lol
[15:52] <vychune> hey guys
[15:56] <wrst> hey hey vychune
[15:56] <infobot-tn> wrst: 14:42Z <Xpistos> tell wrst What's up!
[15:56] <wrst> Xpistos: how are things going?
[15:56] <wrst> .weather livingston tn
[15:56] <infobot-tn> Cover Unknown, ?, ?mb, (wind unknown) - KCHA (time unknown)
[15:56]  * wrst facepalms
[15:56] <wrst> .weather bna
[15:56] <infobot-tn> Scattered, 18℃, 1014mb, Light breeze 6kt (↑) - OITM 14:00Z
[15:56] <wrst> .weather nashville tn
[15:56] <infobot-tn> Cloudy, 71.6℉ (22℃), 29.92in (1010mb), Moderate breeze 12kt (↑) - KBNA 14:53Z
[15:56] <vychune> hey wrst
[15:57]  * wrst does not like the metric system!
[15:57] <wrst> vychune: how are you doing?
[15:57] <vychune> im doing good
[15:57] <vychune> you?
[15:57] <Xpistos> I okies
[15:57] <wrst> doing well especially for a monday :)
[15:58] <vychune> good
[15:59] <vychune> infobot-tn: tell linuxman410 that i said whats good
[15:59] <infobot-tn> vychune: I'll pass that on when linuxman410 is around.
[16:00] <pace_t_zulu> .weather bna
[16:00] <infobot-tn> Scattered, 18℃, 1014mb, Light breeze 6kt (↑) - OITM 14:00Z
[16:01] <vychune> .weather Memphis
[16:01] <infobot-tn> KeyError: 'geonames' (file "/home/ircbot/phenny/modules/weather.py", line 26, in location)
[16:01] <vychune> -_- wrst wth
[16:01] <vychune> .weather memphis
[16:01] <pace_t_zulu> .weather Nashville
[16:01] <infobot-tn> Overcast ☁, 75.2℉ (24℃), 29.92in (1010mb), Moderate breeze 11kt (↑) - KMEM 14:53Z
[16:01] <infobot-tn> Cloudy, 71.6℉ (22℃), 29.92in (1010mb), Moderate breeze 12kt (↑) - KBNA 14:53Z
[16:02] <pace_t_zulu> probably should precede that string with "Nashville: " or "Memphis: "
[16:02] <vychune> infobot-tn: tell wrst -_- wrst wth
[16:02] <infobot-tn> vychune: I'll pass that on when wrst is around.
[16:02] <pace_t_zulu> the KMEM and KBNA at the end is more cryptic than it needs to be
[16:02] <vychune> pace_t_zulu: very ture
[16:02] <vychune> true
[16:03] <vychune> .weather mem
[16:03] <pace_t_zulu> wrst: i'd be happy to contribute programming to the bot
[16:03] <infobot-tn> ValueError: invalid literal for int() with base 10: '//' (file "/home/ircbot/phenny/modules/weather.py", line 198, in f_weather)
[16:03] <pace_t_zulu> .weather nashville
[16:03] <infobot-tn> Cloudy, 71.6℉ (22℃), 29.92in (1010mb), Moderate breeze 12kt (↑) - KBNA 14:53Z
[16:03] <vychune> .weather memphis
[16:03] <infobot-tn> Overcast ☁, 75.2℉ (24℃), 29.92in (1010mb), Moderate breeze 11kt (↑) - KMEM 14:53Z
[16:04] <vychune> infobot-tn: wth
[16:04] <cyberanger> .weather adak, ak
[16:04] <pace_t_zulu> and what is 14:53Z ??? 14:53 Zulu ?
[16:04] <infobot-tn> Overcast ☁, 39.2℉ (4℃), 29.79in (1005mb), Light breeze 6kt (↑) - PADK 14:56Z
[16:04] <cyberanger> pace_t_zulu: yep
[16:04] <cyberanger> it's coded for GMT
[16:04] <pace_t_zulu> i mean ... i like the shoutout
[16:04] <pace_t_zulu> but we should do UTC rather than GMT ... as UTC is Ubuntu time
[16:05] <cyberanger> (for IRC thats smart, but I hate the inflexability)
[16:05] <wrst> .weather memphis tn
[16:05] <infobot-tn> wrst: 15:02Z <vychune> tell wrst -_- wrst wth
[16:05] <infobot-tn> Overcast ☁, 75.2℉ (24℃), 29.92in (1010mb), Moderate breeze 11kt (↑) - KMEM 14:53Z
[16:05] <pace_t_zulu> cyberanger: who is programming the bot?
[16:05] <wrst> pace_t_zulu: be a neat little project to throw up on launchpad
[16:05] <cyberanger> pace_t_zulu: gmt is utc
[16:05] <cyberanger> one in the same
[16:05] <cyberanger> GMT/UTC is full notation
[16:06] <pace_t_zulu> yea ... i'd like to take a crack at making it a little friendlier
[16:06] <cyberanger> as for coding idk, the admin is wrst
[16:06] <vychune> .c
[16:06] <infobot-tn> AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'encode' (file "/home/ircbot/phenny/modules/calc.py", line 72, in c)
[16:06] <pace_t_zulu> why does it broadcast errors?
[16:06] <pace_t_zulu> you should log those to a file
[16:07] <vychune> good point
[16:07] <wrst> ha ha pace_t_zulu, cyberanger made me put it in here!
[16:07] <vychune> infobot-tn: tell wrst log erorrs to file
[16:07] <infobot-tn> vychune: I'll pass that on when wrst is around.
[16:07] <wrst> pace_t_zulu: just playing with python some :)
[16:07] <infobot-tn> wrst: 15:07Z <vychune> tell wrst log erorrs to file
[16:07] <cyberanger> wrst: it was working, why not
[16:08] <pace_t_zulu> wrst: that could be dangerous if someone has some time where none of us are around
[16:08] <cyberanger> is it still in #swissknife-test
[16:09] <cyberanger> pace_t_zulu: how
[16:09] <wrst> yes cyberanger
[16:09] <cyberanger> it's only info
[16:09] <pace_t_zulu> ssh<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[16:09] <wrst> yeah
[16:09] <wrst> true pace_t_zulu
[16:09] <wrst> thank you sir :)
[16:10] <pace_t_zulu> not that anyone would ... but it is hanging out there like an invitation
[16:10] <wrst> pace_t_zulu:  a kiddie script probably could have got hold of that
[16:10] <cyberanger> pace_t_zulu: one of us is always here though
[16:10] <vychune> ok then
[16:11] <pace_t_zulu> cyberanger: between the hours of 1 am and 5 am i bet our numbers are low
[16:11] <cyberanger> and where is the risk exactly, just spam of info right?
[16:11] <wrst> cyberanger: took him offline until i have time to mess with it
[16:11] <vychune> got this in the makers chan
[16:11] <vychune> http://atheistatlarge.org/2011/05/the-best-rapture-photos/
[16:11] <cyberanger> pace_t_zulu: low, but usually around
[16:12] <cyberanger> pace_t_zulu: it's not got any op ability like chanserv, and it'll spam at worst, right?
[16:12] <cyberanger> or is there another worry?
[16:13] <pace_t_zulu> more like i worry for the server it sits on
[16:13] <pace_t_zulu> and any users on that server
[16:13] <vychune> oh yeah that could be problems
[16:13] <pace_t_zulu> spam on here is hardly a big deal
[16:13] <pace_t_zulu> it hasn't been something we've ever had to worry about
[16:14] <cyberanger> if it's not locked down, but on the code I read, looked solid
[16:14] <cyberanger> but yeah, see your point
[16:14] <pace_t_zulu> uh huh ... broadcasting error messages with file paths in them is ill-advised ...
[16:15] <Juzzy-> http://cash-fans.info/one-trillion-dollars.html
[16:15] <vychune> to the utmost pace_t_zulu
[16:17] <vychune> Juzzy-: well damn
[16:19] <Juzzy-> no doubt
[16:21] <vychune> anybody wanna break me off a piece off that
[16:21] <vychune> lol
[16:28] <vychune> see ya guys gotta rokk
[16:28] <vychune> roll
[18:20] <wrst> welcome electricus
[18:20] <electricus> howdy
[18:21] <electricus> ya..strange thing.. i fired up quasselcore again on my server and poof..all my old channels came up again
[18:21] <electricus> i found the old user profile to run the core under.. i had totally forgot
[18:23] <electricus> guys.. i am seriously liking Ron Paul
[18:23] <electricus> I think he's 10 times smarter than all those idiots in washington
[19:34] <wrst> electricus: didn't realize you still weren't using quassel core?
[19:35] <wrst> and electricus on Paul his domestic policy I think is ok, his foriegn policy blows chunks :)
[19:50] <orias> :)
[21:01] <electricus> wrst: do you not like his foreign policy because of isreal?
[21:01] <wrst> well electricus he really doesn't have a foriegn policy
[21:02] <wrst> I just don't think he stands a chance because he is a libertarion trying to get elected on a the republican ticket that really doesnt' make a lot of sense either
[21:10]  * wrst hates equally all politicians :)
[22:14] <electricus> wrst: what do you think we actually need as foreign policy..?
[22:15] <electricus> i've always been baffled how the leadership of this country thinks it has to give out billions of dollars to other countries.. and fight their battles for them
[22:16] <wrst> electricus: nuke first ask questions later?
[22:16] <electricus> haha
[22:16] <wrst> I'm half serious, if people want to complaing and bemoan the US cut off aid
[22:17] <electricus> I'm pretty sure that's Ron Paul's take on it too
[22:20] <electricus> wrst: check this out:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXIdMq3-aqk
[22:21] <wrst> electricus: i don't agree with his position on israel however and yes I know that's not consistant :)


[09:22] <rmg51> Morning
[12:05] <teddy-dbear> Morning peoples and whatever else is around
[17:15] <ChinnoDog> afternoon
[17:43] <teddy-dbear> o/


[21:52] <ExMIB> hi all
[21:53] <ExMIB> who use samsung witu
[21:53] <ExMIB> i need a help, please (
[21:55] <ExMIB> please, help me


[01:56] <ikt> anyone around?
[09:13] <head_victim> blahdeblah: sorry mate (re the ML) sometimes I don't realise when gmails hidden a bunch of text on me if I'm not paying close enough attention. I do usually try to prune.
[09:13] <blahdeblah> head_victim: No worries - just a friendly reminder :-)
[09:14] <head_victim> Yep, you get my other email?
[09:14] <blahdeblah> Yeah - just haven't had a chance to go through it yet
[09:14] <blahdeblah> I'm working on my HP networking certification
[09:15] <head_victim> Ah k, sweet. I'm trying to debate what I should study as my job hunting isn't going well so I've resigned myself to having to do more study to get a job I want.
[09:15] <blahdeblah> :-(
[09:16] <blahdeblah> If you want something in Linux admin, start with a RHCE, and add a uni degree after that as you're able. ;-)
[09:16] <head_victim> My work will pay for any university study I want and as I already have a degree it opens up graduate diplomas and stuff which is basically tafe cert IVs. So I've got to decide what sort of line I want to take. Management, analyst, investigation or IT.
[09:17] <head_victim> Nah work will only pay for uni stuffs and I'm a cheap bastard.
[09:18] <blahdeblah> RHCE you would likely be able to self-study.  That's certainly my plan
[09:18] <head_victim> How costly is it, ballpark wise?
[09:18] <blahdeblah> Don't know
[09:19] <blahdeblah> Last i checked, exams were pretty exy - cheapest i saw was about $800-900.
[09:19] <blahdeblah> But i'll be going there next... :-\
[09:19] <head_victim> So you'd want to make sure you're going to pass.
[09:19] <blahdeblah> I think you get the 2nd exam at a discount
[09:19] <head_victim> The only thing is I"m starting from well back on what most people are knowledge wise I think.
[09:20] <blahdeblah> But it's the only Linux certification i've ever seen advertised as a selection criteria, so you've pretty much gotta have it if you don't already have a track record with the company.
[09:21] <head_victim> Yep I was thinking if I went IT I'd do some sort of IT uni stuffs and if I liked it enough do some RH in my own time.
[09:21] <head_victim> I've got to think about money as well though that's the only reason I'm thinking management stuff.
[09:22] <head_victim> I'd basically work up towards an MBA if I was going down that route. Depends on how long I stay in my job as to how far down the track I got.
[09:23] <blahdeblah> yeah - sucks that you have to go down the MBA track just to get any further
[09:23] <blahdeblah> Like management is what we all want to do - NOT
[09:24] <head_victim> I actually don't mind it but I need to start earning real money not the crap I'm on
[09:26] <head_victim> If I can get that in IT then great, but at my current technical knowledge that would be hard
[09:27] <blahdeblah> head_victim: don't sell yourself short - with a grad. dip. and an entry-level industry cert., you'd be pretty employable
[09:27] <head_victim> blahdeblah: at what sort of pay grade though?
[09:27] <blahdeblah> no idea
[09:27] <blahdeblah> What sort of govt jobs have you been going for?
[09:27] <head_victim> Pretty much entry level stuff around 60 - 80k
[09:28] <blahdeblah> what are the classifications you've been looking at?
[09:28] <head_victim> AO4 - 6
[09:28] <head_victim> Depending on if I've actually done it before and stuff.
[09:28] <head_victim> The problem is all that sort of stuff is usually filled in house
[09:29] <head_victim> AO3 is where you'd get a job pretty easy I think but that's far too much of a pay cut to even consider having a mortgage and all
[09:30] <blahdeblah> yep
[09:30] <blahdeblah> AO4-AO5 should be well within your reach though
[09:30] <head_victim> I decided I'd drop to AO4 if it meant getting off shiftwork.
[09:30] <blahdeblah> yep
[09:30]  * blahdeblah is glad he doesn't do after hours any more
[09:31] <head_victim> I need to drop the extra bit of weight for health reasons and can't seem to do it on this stupid roster.
[09:31] <sagaci> head_victim: run to work
[09:31] <head_victim> So is 80k ish in IT achievable with grad dip?
[09:31] <head_victim> Or is that full degree sort of field?
[09:32] <blahdeblah> head_victim: You and me both, mate
[09:32] <blahdeblah> I don't think there's much difference between degree & grad dip
[09:33] <head_victim> Except the grad dip is half the time ;)
[09:33] <blahdeblah> Life experience counts for a lot, IMO
[09:33] <head_victim> I was tempted to do an IT grad dip and then look into some project management stuffs.
[09:33] <head_victim> That would be a good combo of management and tech
[09:33] <blahdeblah> Yeah
[09:34] <head_victim> Know any good project managers I could hit up for some basic questions?
[09:34] <blahdeblah> I've got a couple of friends who might be worth talking to.  Let me drop them an email and see what they have to say...
[09:35] <head_victim> I'm not going to ask anything too in depth at this stage, just want to make sure it's what I'm tyhinking it really is.
[09:35] <head_victim> I appreciate the effort mate
[09:35] <blahdeblah> head_victim: Leave it with me
[09:37] <head_victim> Will do, and no huge screaming rush mate, I'm still pondering :)
[09:38] <Octatron> Greetings all
[09:38] <head_victim> Evening Octatron
[09:39] <head_victim> sagaci: I have to get up before 0430 now, running to work I may as well not go to bed ;)
[09:40] <sagaci> working tomorrow?
[09:40] <head_victim> Yep
[09:40] <Octatron> head_victim: did you get my email?
[09:40] <head_victim> Octatron: yep, had a look at it this morning at 0430 ;)
[09:43] <Octatron> head_victim: I could never do that, I'm so not a morning person
[09:43] <head_victim> Octatron: neither am I, hence working hard to find another job
[09:48] <sagaci> start an ubuntu-au type company
[09:50] <Octatron> Then you can get paid to do this :)
[09:51] <head_victim> Hah home loan = steady income required. Nice idea though
[10:14] <sagaci> head_victim: still up?
[10:15] <Octatron> sagaci: head_victim had to take off
[10:17] <sagaci> Octatron: what are you up to
[10:19] <Octatron> Lots of stuff, adjusting the wiki and looking for a tv media player and NAS that will work across a network.  You?
[10:20] <sagaci> doing some translation
[10:21] <Octatron> translation, programming?
[10:23] <sagaci> no
[10:26] <sagaci> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty
[10:31] <Octatron> Ahh as in speaking language :P Cool