[00:00] <micahg> asac: unless we backport kmozillahelper, there's no reason to include the patches in < lucid
[00:00] <asac> chrisccoulson: right. but lets keep it apply, just make it so it doesnt change anything if qt version is lower
[00:00] <fta> btw, i suck in css, if someone is willing to improve the look, please ping me
[00:00] <micahg> chrisccoulson: I hope you mean jaunty ;)
[00:00] <asac> micahg: true, but having just one branch would be better
[00:00] <asac> my 2c
[00:00] <chrisccoulson> micahg - yeah ;)
[00:00] <micahg> asac: right, same branch, but it would only apply the patches for >= lucid
[00:00] <asac> if quilt has that feature tats fine
[00:00] <micahg> asac: like we do now with apparmor
[00:01] <asac> but if it would mean a manual patch in the rules
[00:01] <asac> that would be bad
[00:01] <asac> because then you cannot just update patches etc.
[00:05] <BUGabundo> fta: http://android.modaco.com/content/google-nexus-one-nexusone-modaco-com/309717/its-dead-new-screen-needed/
[00:05] <BUGabundo> wow
[00:05] <BUGabundo> that page crashes chromium
[00:05] <asac> chrisccoulson: i think in nsKDEUtils.h we could make a #if QT_VERSION or something that always returns false for qt < lucid
[00:05] <asac> static bool getKdeSession()
[00:05] <asac> that is
[00:05] <BUGabundo> time to debug test it
[00:06] <BUGabundo> $ chromiumdatadir="$(mktemp -d)";chromiumdiskcache="$(mktemp -d)";chromium-browser -g --user-data-dir=$chromiumdatadir --disk-cache-dir=$chromiumdiskcache' http://android.modaco.com/content/google-nexus-one-nexusone-modaco-com/309717/its-dead-new-screen-needed/
[00:06] <chrisccoulson> asac - yeah, could do. i will try and look at that tomorrow
[00:06] <asac> cool
[00:07] <asac> fta: antoher idea would be to add a bot to this channel where i can just say !buildstatus
[00:07] <asac> and it dumps the current status somehow ;)
[00:07] <asac> but dashboard is good enough i guess ;)
[00:07] <asac> we could teach the bot to return the url on some command
[00:08] <fta> asac, i already wrote it, but i wasn't sure it would be welcome, so i never plugged it here
[00:08] <asac> fta: in this channel i am sure its welcome ;)
[00:09] <fta> i will have to dig into my code repository see in what state i left it
[00:09] <fta> BUGabundo, that page loads fine here
[00:09] <asac> http://identi.ca/notice/33824116
[00:09] <asac> ;)
[00:10] <BUGabundo> fta: yeah on a clean profile does too
[00:10] <BUGabundo> guess its one of my addons
[00:10] <asac> addons crashing chromium? how many do you have? 50?
[00:10] <BUGabundo> oh come on asac
[00:10] <asac> ;)
[00:24] <chrisccoulson> ah, bugger. i was hoping to do the extension updates in hardy with the minimum of updates, but we need to do the binary package name transition (to xul-ext-*) in hardy, else upgrades break :(
[00:24] <chrisccoulson> ^^micahg
[00:24] <micahg> chrisccoulson: why?
[00:25] <micahg> chrisccoulson: all lucid packages should have xul-ext migration paths
[00:25] <chrisccoulson> micahg - the packages in lucid have conflicts/replaces to ensure the upgrade works, but they are all versioned
[00:25] <chrisccoulson> and the version numbers are too low
[00:25] <micahg> chrisccoulson: 1.1+really2.0 :)
[00:25] <chrisccoulson> so, we'd need to either SRU all the extensions in lucid to change the versioned replaces, or do the transition in hardy
[00:26] <chrisccoulson> heh, we could do that as well
[00:31] <chrisccoulson> if it wasn't for gcc, i'd probably have taken over the whole build farm by now ;)
[00:39] <asac> i would go for the transition in hardy
[00:40] <asac> hmm. actually dont do that for ubufox ;)
[00:41] <crimsun> fta: what is that pastebin for?
[00:45] <chrisccoulson> asac - would that cause an issue wit ubufox?
[00:45] <chrisccoulson> s/wit/with/
[00:46] <asac> chrisccoulson: plugins need to move their location too
[00:46] <asac> e.g. they ship in /usr/share/ubufox/plugins
[00:46] <asac> so the alternative switcher works
[00:46] <asac> not sure if any plugin dose that in hardy though (cant remember when that feature was added)
[00:46] <asac> anyway, i think plugins also need updates
[00:46] <chrisccoulson> asac - ah, i wasn't suggesting to do the whole transition we did in lucid, but just the binary package name change only
[00:47] <asac> ah ok
[00:47] <asac> that works i think ... though we need to check with mvo
[00:47] <chrisccoulson> as it stands at the moment, the conflicts/replaces in lucid aren't tight enough to handle the name transition during the hardy->lucid upgrade
[00:47] <asac> if stable updates in update-manager pull new packages
[00:47] <asac> chrisccoulson: yeah. i understand the problem. the version hack suggested by micahg also works.
[00:48] <chrisccoulson> asac - they do, i tried that in last week when i was testing the ff30.->3.6 transition
[00:48] <asac> ok cool
[00:48] <chrisccoulson> (new packages get installed by u-m)
[00:48] <asac> so we hav three ptions: a) do full transition, b) do name transtion only, c) do fake version update
[00:49] <chrisccoulson> i think i would prefer the 3rd option, but i will probably have to do the second option anyway for the extensions that are already in the PPA
[00:49] <asac> yeah maybe. however, option a) would probably the least work intesive one
[00:49] <BUGabundo> nite
[00:49] <BUGabundo> see you all tomorrow
[00:49] <asac> e.g. just throw them from lucid to hardy
[00:49] <asac> BUGabundo: night
[00:50] <chrisccoulson> yeah, we could do
[13:04] <fta> question for the python experts, i have some dates like this one u'2010-05-28T10:51:47.486204+00:00', i want to compute durations/deltas
[13:06] <fta> nxvl, ^^ ?
[13:13] <BUGabundo_remote> seems no one is expert enough
[13:14] <fta> yeah
[13:14] <fta> i need a datetime or something like that
[13:39] <fta> tricked it.. datetime.datetime.strptime(date_first_dispatched, "%Y-%m-%dT%H:%M:%S.%f+00:00")
[14:56] <chrisccoulson> bugger, we've ran out of space in the u-m-s PPA
[14:56] <chrisccoulson> ^^asac - do you think we should delete stuff or ask for more space?
[14:58] <fta> probably both
[15:20] <asac> chrisccoulson: ums? security ppa?
[15:21] <asac> chrisccoulson: whats the current max space?
[15:21] <asac> 4G?
[15:21] <asac> lets get 10 then
[15:21] <chrisccoulson> asac - it's 10G already
[15:21] <asac> hmm.
[15:21] <asac> chrisccoulson: go into #is and ask if there is a way to increase size at all
[15:21] <asac> ask bigjouls
[15:22] <chrisccoulson> ah, bigjouls doesn't seem to be in there
[15:23] <asac> chrisccoulson: wait till he is back ;)
[15:23] <asac> chrisccoulson: so sorry ... #soyuz ;)
[15:23] <chrisccoulson> on freenode or canonical?
[15:23] <asac> chrisccoulson: latter
[15:23] <chrisccoulson> heh, he's not in there either ;)
[15:34] <asac> 11.5 GiB (1.15%) of 1000.0 GiB
[15:34] <asac> nice
[15:34] <asac> lets share warez there ;)
[15:34] <BUGabundo_remote> new disk?
[15:34] <asac> no ... security ppa
[15:34] <asac> https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mozilla-security/+archive/ppa/+packages
[15:35] <BUGabundo_remote> 1T
[15:35] <BUGabundo_remote> nice
[15:35] <asac> yep
[15:35] <chrisccoulson> asac - that should last me until tomorrow :P
[15:35] <asac> at least ;)
[15:35]  * chrisccoulson sees how quickly he can fill it up
[15:52] <nxvl> fta: time object
[15:52] <nxvl> fta: datetime actually
[15:52] <nxvl> fta: import datetime, then you put that in a datetime object and you can get days for example
[17:42] <chrisccoulson> come back micahg :)
[17:48] <nxvl> chrisccoulson: did you got the change to prepare the document of the firefox backport?
[17:49] <chrisccoulson> nxvl - not yet, i really need to get these packages all in to the PPA first
[17:49] <nxvl> sure
[17:49] <nxvl> let me know when you have it please
[17:49] <chrisccoulson> nxvl, rick created this page earlier: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Mozilla/FirefoxHardyJaunty
[17:50] <chrisccoulson> and it contains the contents of an e-mail i sent out, which has a few details in
[17:53] <nxvl> and it refers to some lists that are not there
[17:58] <chrisccoulson> nxvl - ah, rick forgot the links i put at the bottom of the e-mail
[17:58] <chrisccoulson> what's your e-mail address?
[17:58] <nxvl> that's what i assumed
[17:58] <nxvl> nicolas.valcarcel AT canonical DOT com
[17:59] <chrisccoulson> nxvl - ok, i forwarded the mail to you too
[17:59] <nxvl> thanks
[18:38] <fta> chrisccoulson, http://people.ubuntu.com/~fta/ppa-dashboard/ums.html
[19:01] <asac> fta: can you make http://people.ubuntu.com/~fta/ppa-dashboard/ list all the dashboards rather than showing the default one?
[19:01] <asac> and maybe move the current index.html to daily.html
[19:01] <asac> or somehting?
[19:02] <asac> just and idea so one can browse all the dashboards
[19:02] <fta> asac, most probably, but i'm still experimenting
[19:02] <asac> without making an overview page
[19:02] <asac> kk
[19:02] <fta> the API is weird
[19:02] <fta> and slow
[19:02] <fta> and buggy
[19:02] <asac> oh you are using API ... and dont parse html ;)
[19:02] <asac> good
[19:03] <asac> file bugs ;)
[19:03] <asac> even if only 5% get fixed its a win
[19:22] <fta> the API is not on par with the website :(
[19:31] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: hi! so, I have that usn 935-1 was given to you for ff 3.5.10. is karmic going to get 364 or 3.5.10?
[19:31] <micahg> jdstrand: 3.5.10 ATM
[19:31] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: ^
[19:31] <jdstrand> micahg: thanks
[19:32] <chrisccoulson> micahg - ah, you missed the discussion in #ubuntu-desktop ;)
[19:32] <micahg> jdstrand: yes
[19:32] <micahg> oops
[19:32] <micahg> chrisccoulson: yes
[19:32] <micahg> was trying to get in there
[19:32]  * micahg goes to read the backlog
[19:32] <chrisccoulson> we need to get 3.6.4 in karmic before jaunty ;)
[19:32] <chrisccoulson> that's basically the summary
[19:32] <micahg> chrisccoulson: why?
[19:32] <chrisccoulson> we still need to preserve the upgrade path through karmic
[19:32] <micahg> chrisccoulson: I know there will be upgrade issues, but that should only affect the next update
[19:33] <micahg> chrisccoulson: we should have a month to do that
[19:33] <chrisccoulson> yeah, but we can't have a month where upgrades break ;)
[19:33] <chrisccoulson> users wouldn't be very happy
[19:33] <micahg> chrisccoulson: well, ugh
[19:34] <micahg> chrisccoulson: so let's use the karmic xul rdepends for jaunty and then upgrades won't break
[19:34] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: if karmic gets 3.6.4, please use 930-1 for it like the others
[19:34]  * jdstrand holds onto 935-1 for safekeeping for now
[19:34] <micahg> chrisccoulson: and version all the extensions for jaunty so the upgrades won't break
[19:35] <micahg> chrisccoulson: ugh, I guess if we're doing all that work we can do karmic also :(
[19:35] <micahg> chrisccoulson: ok, so what's the timeline then, hardy, then karmic the week after, then jaunty?
[19:35] <chrisccoulson> micahg - yeah, that's the plan now
[19:36] <micahg> chrisccoulson: I think we should push 3.5.10 to karmic on tuesday regardless
[19:36] <chrisccoulson> micahg - yeah, that might be what happens. it all depends on how fast we can have karmic ready ;)
[19:37] <micahg> chrisccoulson: well, my goal is to have whatever is left for hardy done by Tuesday
[19:38] <micahg> chrisccoulson: BTW, should I reversion my uploads in the transition PPA so you can copy/rebuild to security PPA?
[19:38] <chrisccoulson> micahg - yeah, can do
[19:38] <micahg> chrisccoulson: wait, as in I should ?
[19:39] <chrisccoulson> yeah, you can do that
[19:39] <micahg> chrisccoulson: k
[19:40] <micahg> chrisccoulson: will you be signed in over the weekend?  Those should be ready Sun morning
[19:40] <chrisccoulson> i will be at some point
[19:40] <micahg> chrisccoulson: k
[19:40] <micahg> chrisccoulson: so which extension plan are we using?  I saw the transcript between you and asac
[19:42] <chrisccoulson> well, i had to fix the ones i uploaded already to rename the binaries to xul-ext-* and provide the transitional package
[19:42] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson, micahg: in thinking about 3.5.10 vs 3.6.4 for karmic for a second, I have an opinion
[19:42] <micahg> chrisccoulson: so we're doing the transition in hardy?
[19:43] <micahg> chrisccoulson: won't that cause more problems with additional new binaries?
[19:43] <jdstrand> unless 3.5.9 has a critical vulnerability that doesn't exist in 3.0 or 3.6, we should just publish 3.6.4 for karmic
[19:43] <chrisccoulson> micahg - it's up to you. i had to do that for the ones i already uploaded, as i had no choice once i uploaded them
[19:43] <jdstrand> reason being, that is a lot of archive churn and disruption for karmic users
[19:43] <chrisccoulson> jdstand - yeah, i'm not sure what 3.5.10 fixes
[19:43] <micahg> jdstrand: the problem is the time between we can have all the extensions/rdepends ready for karmic
[19:44] <jdstrand> more than likely, 3.6.4 fixes whatever would be in 3.5.10 anyway, so focusing on 3.6.4 for all releases is best
[19:44] <micahg> jdstrand: I would think we can get up 3.5.10 with minimal effort to at least have a browser w/out known issues
[19:44] <micahg> jdstrand: my guess is it'll take another week to have karmic ready
[19:44] <jdstrand> micahg: yes, but only to turn around 2-3 days later with a new update
[19:44] <jdstrand> ok, 7 days
[19:44] <micahg> jdstrand: your call
[19:45] <jdstrand> normally, we release new packages for all supported releases at once
[19:45] <micahg> jdstrand: if for some reason we don't get karmic to 3.6.4 w/in a week, then what though?
[19:45] <jdstrand> I realize this isn't a normal update
[19:45] <micahg> chrisccoulson: what do you think?
[19:46] <jdstrand> I don't think I have enough info to make the call
[19:46] <chrisccoulson> i'm not sure, but 3.5.10 is ready to go anyway
[19:46] <micahg> chrisccoulson: WRT extensions, I'll do it whatever way you want
[19:46] <jdstrand> I had assumed all releases were getting 3.6.4, until a few minutes ago
[19:46] <chrisccoulson> jdstrand - i'm more concerned about what we do with 3.6.4 on tuesday when hardy, karmic and jaunty aren't all ready ;)
[19:47] <jdstrand> of course
[19:47] <jdstrand> but, it wouldn't be the first time that mozilla updates didn't go out on the day upstream released them
[19:47] <micahg> jdstrand: if we push 3.5.10 to jaunty/karmic and hardy up to 3.6.4, we'll at least have up to date browsers on all releases
[19:48] <jdstrand> so what I am hearing is that hardy and jaunty are fairly close to making it midweek next week, but karmic is not?
[19:48] <chrisccoulson> jdstrand - that was the plan, but then we realized we still need to maintain the jaunty -> karmic upgrade path
[19:48] <chrisccoulson> so we need to do karmic before jaunty (or at the same time)
[19:49] <jdstrand> well, most jaunty users are using 3.0 I'm sure, since that is in the default install
[19:49] <chrisccoulson> yeah, that's right
[19:49] <jdstrand> so upgrading it to 3.5.10 doesn't do a lot for them
[19:49] <jdstrand> so, hardy is ready for midweek next week, but 364 for jaunty and karmic is another week out?
[19:50] <chrisccoulson> jdstrand - i think that's how it's looking atm
[19:51] <jdstrand> while not optimal, since this is a very special case, I'm ok with hardy 364 going out before jaunty and karmic
[19:51] <jdstrand> (hardy+lucid)
[19:51] <micahg> chrisccoulson: jaunty is also more complicated as we should upgrade/import profiles from both 3.0 and 3.5
[19:51] <micahg> chrisccoulson: or at least ask which one
[19:51] <jdstrand> so, let's just say definitively that hardy and lucid will get the 3.6.4 update next week, and they should use 930-1
[19:52] <jdstrand> that leaves jaunty and karmic
[19:52] <jdstrand> karmic-lucid upgrade is ok
[19:52] <jdstrand> if we don't update jaunty, jaunty to karmic upgrade is ok
[19:52] <chrisccoulson> micahg - yeah, i've not tested that yet
[19:53] <chrisccoulson> jdstrand - yeah, seems sensible
[19:53] <jdstrand> so, hardy and lucid go together, and jautny and karmic go together a week later with 930-2
[19:53] <micahg> jdstrand: also if we run into regressions in hardy, I would assume the priority would be those regressions, so karmic/jaunty would get pushed back
[19:53] <jdstrand> micahg: yes
[19:53] <micahg> jdstrand: that's why I think we should push 3.5.10, just in case
[19:53] <jdstrand> with this in mind, the only real course is that jaunty 3.5 and karmic 3.5 should get 3.5.10
[19:53] <jdstrand> (after all)
[19:53] <micahg> jdstrand: :)
[19:54] <jdstrand> that leaves default jaunty 3.0 users out for a bit though, but that is about the best we can do atm
[19:54] <jdstrand> again, I didn't realize only hardy was ready for 3.6.4
[19:54] <micahg> jdstrand: can we make an annoucement that they should switch to firefox-3.5 for a week or is that too confusing?
[19:55] <micahg> jdstrand: I didn't work fast enough on this project, that's why it isn't ready
[19:55] <jdstrand> micahg: I think that would be too confusing, and quite unprecedented
[19:55] <micahg> jdstrand: k
[19:55] <jdstrand> micahg: oh, no blame at all -- I just didn't know the status and assumed we were talking about all three
[19:56] <jdstrand> it will be clear enough in the usn that jaunty didn't get an update, and our cve tracker will also reflect it. then a week or so later, we will get it out
[19:56] <chrisccoulson> micahg - ok, so i'm just going with doing the binary name transition in hardy for the extensions, it's not really much work to do that
[19:56] <jdstrand> actually...
[19:57] <chrisccoulson> and i'm not updating extensions that currently don't work either
[19:57] <micahg> chrisccoulson: k, will do WRT binary name change, what do you mean by not working?
[19:57] <chrisccoulson> we should only do what is necessar to make sure that things which currently work carry on working
[19:57] <jdstrand> no, scratch that
[19:57] <chrisccoulson> micahg - some extensions have unresolvable dependencies, or depend only on firefox 2 etc...
[19:58] <chrisccoulson> we shouldn't worry about those ones
[20:00] <micahg> chrisccoulson: k
[20:00] <jdstrand> nxvl: you probably want to read backscroll ^. basically next week hardy and lucid are getting 3.6.4, jaunty and karmic 3.5 will get 3.5.10 with 3.6.4 coming a week or so later. this means jaunty 3.0 will not be patched for roughly a week and half
[20:01] <nxvl> jdstrand: thanks for letting me know, will check the backscroll
[20:01] <micahg> chrisccoulson: anything else we need to chat about before the wekeend?
[20:02] <chrisccoulson> micahg - i don't think so. i'll be around for most of the evening anyway (although i'm going for dinner in a few minutes)
[20:02] <micahg> chrisccoulson: k, I'll be around for a few more hours, but will be running around the office
[20:30] <fta> http://blog.chromium.org/2010/05/desktop-notifications-now-available-to.html
[20:41] <micahg> fta: idk if these work with notify-osd
[20:42] <fta> i'd like something to interact between chromium and the app indicator
[20:42] <fta> (i use chromium in --app mode a lot)
[20:47] <fta> http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2010/05/intel-to-hardware-accelerate-webm-if-it-becomes-popular.ars
[20:49] <fta> http://arstechnica.com/security/news/2010/05/adobe-considers-monthly-patches-to-improve-security.ars
[20:51] <jdstrand> micahg: are all the backported items for hardy in the ubuntu-mozilla-security ppa now?
[20:51] <micahg> jdstrand: not yet, we still have another 30 packages I think
[20:52] <jdstrand> micahg: ok. for my part, I won't be able to start testing til tuesday then
[20:52] <jdstrand> micahg: what is the url describing everything that is being backported?
[20:53] <micahg> jdstrand: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/Lucid/FirefoxNewSupportModel/xulrunner-list has teh packages and there is a gobby doc for the extensions that we will probably move to the wiki
[20:53] <micahg> jdstrand: the table at the bottom is what we're backporting
[20:54] <jdstrand> micahg: yes, that's it. thanks!
[20:54] <micahg> jdstrand: chrisccoulson wrote up a plan as well
[20:54] <micahg> jdstrand: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Mozilla/FirefoxHardyJaunty
[20:55] <micahg> jdstrand: if the porting is done (I hope by Tuesday) if you want, I can help with some testing in the mornings (not sure if that's more important than the packages for jaunty/karmic)
[20:55] <jdstrand> micahg: when do you expect the call for testing email to go out?
[20:56] <jdstrand> micahg: testing is everything
[20:56] <micahg> jdstrand: I'm hoping tuesday, I'll be working Sun/Mon to finish any packaging
[20:56] <jdstrand> micahg: we can potentially identify problems that way, and incorporate fixes in the jaunty/karmic stuff
[20:57] <micahg> jdstrand: k, well, when do you expect to be on Tues morning?
[20:57] <jdstrand> micahg: hmmm.. if the call for testing goes our tuesday, then when is it hoped these will hit -security?
[20:58] <micahg> jdstrand: I hope I can find people to upload/copy&rebuild what I need to the security PPA over the weekend and hopefully < 10 packages left to build tues morning
[20:58] <jdstrand> micahg: I have monday off. Tuesday I will start at 13:00 UTC
[20:59] <micahg> jdstrand: I will make a point to be on then and hopefully will have had a chance to catch up w/ chrisccoulson by then
[20:59] <jdstrand> micahg: my plan for next week is testing of this update. I think we need all hands on deck for testing though, and not just a few of us
[21:00] <micahg> jdstrand: my only concern is I can't do testing and karmic/jaunty porting
[21:00] <jdstrand> so I'm hoping the call for testing will elicit lots of feedback (positive I hope!)
[21:01] <micahg> jdstrand: I can send a message to the bugsquad as well to help w/testing
[21:01] <jdstrand> micahg: I realize that, but the testing will ultimately help your confidence with the porting
[21:01] <jdstrand> this is a huge update and while I'll test it, I don't want to be the only one doing that
[21:02] <micahg> jdstrand: k, that's fine, I've just never done anything like this before and didn't know where the priorities are
[21:02] <jdstrand> I'm not suggesting I will be, I just think this requires a big effort
[21:02] <jdstrand> micahg: if that requires talking to your manager/etc, I understand
[21:02] <jdstrand> this is a big update on a stable LTS release
[21:03] <jdstrand> we strive for and agressively test for no regressions
[21:03] <jdstrand> we won't be able to test everything, but the more people we have, the better chance we have at finding things/demonstrating things are ok for most
[21:03] <micahg> jdstrand: it will be chrisccoulson's call then, I'll discuss with him on Tuesday
[21:03] <jdstrand> micahg: cool, thanks
[21:05] <micahg> jdstrand: you have a minute for an OT question?
[21:05] <jdstrand> micahg: in terms of support, we have a responsibility to the jaunty 3.0 users, of course. however, hardy LTS users are likely more numerous and definitely less forgiving with regressions
[21:05] <micahg> jdstrand: k, makes sense
[21:05] <jdstrand> micahg: so the biggest impact we can have is to test the crap out of hardy. that will build confidence in your work on jaunty, so it isn't wasted time either way
[21:06] <jdstrand> micahg: ok, shoot
[21:06] <micahg> jdstrand: k
[21:06] <micahg> jdstrand: do you know of a good central password repo tool?
[21:06] <jdstrand> micahg: can you explain your use case?
[21:07] <micahg> jdstrand: root password store for lots of servers
[21:07] <chrisccoulson> micahg / jdstrand - i've not read the whole scrollback yet, but if you;re talking about testing, then i'm already discussing with ara about coordinating that
[21:07] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: that is good news
[21:08] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: my only concern is that enough people are testing it
[21:08] <micahg> chrisccoulson: I was wondering if my time was better spent continuing porting once hardy is done or to test hardy
[21:08] <jdstrand> s/only/biggest/
[21:09] <jdstrand> micahg: re passwords> is this just for you to maintain locally or for all those servers to access?
[21:09] <chrisccoulson> micahg - your time is probably better spent porting
[21:09] <micahg> jdstrand: well, it's for a team to manage these devices
[21:09] <BUGabundo> evening
[21:09] <micahg> chrisccoulson: k
[21:10] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: mind you, I haven't been a part of your conversation with ara, but imho the most important thing is testing
[21:11] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: if the resources are there without micahg, then that's fine
[21:11] <jdstrand> micahg: otoh I don't have a recommendation, sorry
[21:11] <chrisccoulson> jdstrand - yeah, we haven't discussed how exactly to test it yet, but she is aware of this and is going to help out
[21:11] <chrisccoulson> tbh, the thing i'm most worried about is getting the upgrade paths right
[21:11] <micahg> jdstrand: k, was just wondering if your team had a favorite tool for this use case
[21:12] <chrisccoulson> i'm quite confident that everything will be ok functionally
[21:12] <micahg> chrisccoulson: I'm not sure about that
[21:12] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: the upgrade paths is part of testing
[21:12] <micahg> chrisccoulson: I'm referring to the rdepends
[21:12] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: but this is I think the largest security update ever performed within Ubuntu
[21:13] <chrisccoulson> jdstrand - yeah, i need to get it right ;)
[21:13] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: heh
[21:13] <jdstrand> of course
[21:13] <chrisccoulson> i think i'm going to have to work on monday
[21:13] <chrisccoulson> i wonder if i can defer my vacation for a few days ;)
[21:13] <jdstrand> at the risk of stating the obvious, this is complex and high profile and most importantly, a very large number of users are going to be affected
[21:14] <micahg> chrisccoulson: s/days/weeks :)
[21:14] <chrisccoulson> ;)
[21:14] <jdstrand> on an LTS, these users are very unforgiving of regressions
[21:14] <jdstrand> (ie, enterprise users)
[21:14] <chrisccoulson> yeah, that's what worries me ;)
[21:15] <jdstrand> we need as many people doing functional testing as possible
[21:15] <jdstrand> upgrades next
[21:15] <micahg> jdstrand: we can always blame upgrades on Lucid :)
[21:15] <jdstrand> if ara can dedicate resources to that, great
[21:15] <micahg> and fix for .1
[21:15] <jdstrand> I plan to be testing this too, but 2-3 people really does not seem like enough...
[21:16] <chrisccoulson> yeah, hardy -> lucid upgrades aren't enabled yet
[21:16] <micahg> chrisccoulson: they're not
[21:16] <micahg> ?
[21:16] <jdstrand> at least not for the quick turnaround that I perceive is desired for publication
[21:16] <micahg> chrisccoulson: what upgrade path is there for hardy at this point?
[21:16] <chrisccoulson> micahg - not yet (it's not offered by u-m anyway)
[21:16] <chrisccoulson> micahg - no upgrade path is offered in u-m atm
[21:16] <chrisccoulson> although
[21:17] <chrisccoulson> it is technically still possible to upgrade to intrepid, as the archive isn't on oldreleases yet
[21:17] <micahg> chrisccoulson: ah, but they can choose it then?  is hardy -> intrepid still offered, or was that turned off in u-m?
[21:17] <chrisccoulson> i'm going to ask about moving that next week
[21:17] <jdstrand> that should be turned off
[21:17] <chrisccoulson> micahg - u-m in hardy offers no upgrades atm
[21:17] <jdstrand> if it isn't, that is a serious problem
[21:17] <micahg> chrisccoulson: ok
[21:18] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: I asked micahg, but I'll ask you. when is the call for testing email going out (micahg said tuesday hopefully)? when do you hope for this to be published to -security?
[21:20] <chrisccoulson> jdstrand - yeah, tuesday seems like a good time (although, it will be possible to test the firefox and extension upgrades before then, hopefully)
[21:20] <chrisccoulson> i might not go to bed tonight until all the extensions are done ;)
[21:20] <micahg> chrisccoulson: yeah, I'll finish those first, so that should be Monday
[21:20] <micahg> chrisccoulson: also, we need to make sure any extensions (not addons) work as well
[21:20] <micahg> chrisccoulson: have you thought about openjdk backport yet?
[21:21] <chrisccoulson> micahg - yeah, that was in the mail i sent to ara earlier (the one pasted in to the wiki)
[21:21] <chrisccoulson> i'm not sure about openjdk
[21:21] <micahg> chrisccoulson: I'm going to try to grab the commit that built it for xul192 and add that to the hardy version and see if it works
[21:21] <chrisccoulson> cooo, thanks
[21:22] <chrisccoulson> s/cooo/cool
[21:22] <chrisccoulson> lol
[21:22] <jdstrand> please consider sun-java too -- it is very popular on hardy
[21:22] <asac> ack
[21:22] <micahg> jdstrand: I think that might already work
[21:22] <fta> http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2010/05/for-some-companies-ie-6s-ineptitude-is-a-feature-not-flaw.ars
[21:23] <chrisccoulson> i will install that when i text the next round of extension updates on hardy
[21:23] <asac> chrisccoulson: get mvo involved in testing the upgrades
[21:23] <micahg> jdstrand: more than that, on hardy sun-java6 is the default java :)
[21:23] <asac> chrisccoulson: he has a good infrastrcuture to test various combinations
[21:23] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: ok. let me be blunt. how do you see testing going? keeping in mind monday is a holiday in the US
[21:23] <chrisccoulson> jdstrand, monday is also a holiday in the UK
[21:23] <jdstrand> micahg: well, it is still multiverse, but yes
[21:23] <chrisccoulson> although, tbh, i think i will be working on monday
[21:26] <asac> chrisccoulson: the release 3.6.4 is now scheduled june 7/8 :)
[21:26] <asac> so another week ;)
[21:26] <asac> build6 is going out
[21:26] <micahg> asac: I now understand your original worries about this project :)
[21:26] <chrisccoulson> asac - that's quite a relief
[21:26] <chrisccoulson> asac - build6 is already in the PPA ;)
[21:26] <asac> heh ;)
[21:27] <micahg> asac: still June 1 on the releases page
[21:27] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: what is the testing plan? if there is a URL, can you point me to it?
[21:27] <chrisccoulson> jdstrand - rick started a page here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Mozilla/FirefoxHardyJaunty
[21:27] <jdstrand> yeah, I saw that. it is quite high level
[21:28] <chrisccoulson> but i haven't done any proper planning for testing yet (i'm still trying to get everything updated)
[21:28] <asac> chrisccoulson: micahg: jdstrand forwarded you that mail
[21:29] <chrisccoulson> asac - thanks
[21:29] <micahg> asac: k, thanks
[21:29] <chrisccoulson> asac - is that a list that anyone can subscribe to?
[21:29]  * jdstrand feels like he isn't getting through...
[21:30] <micahg> chrisccoulson: that's the sec list for Ubuntu
[21:30] <micahg> chrisccoulson: oops, mozilla
[21:30] <asac> chrisccoulson: no. but we should get you subscribed to announce
[21:30] <asac> i think its invite only ... could be that it changed
[21:30] <chrisccoulson> asac - yeah, would be useful ;)
[21:31] <micahg> asac: not on their lists page
[21:31] <asac> yeah its invite only
[21:31] <chrisccoulson> jdstrand - so, mvo has offered to help out with upgrade tests
[21:32] <chrisccoulson> (in #ubuntu-desktop a few moments ago)
[21:32] <micahg> chrisccoulson: I think jdstrand is saying we should have a full test plan ready when the call goes out to maximize testing
[21:32] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: I appreciate your continued work in getting the update ready to test. I also appreciate that you know this is a big update that needs testing and you are willing to do it. in the past, testing has largely fallen on the mozilla maintainer and myself. I am extremely concerned that more resources than 2-3 people have not been allocated for testing this huge update
[21:33] <jdstrand> many users could be affected. the reputation of Ubuntu's LTS is at stake
[21:33] <jdstrand> and not least of which (to me), my name will be on the USN
[21:33] <chrisccoulson> jdstrand - that's why ara is involved too. she's going to get people involved with testing as well
[21:34] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: where is the conversation with ara taking place?
[21:35] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: I may be worrying simply because I haven't been part of the testing conversation...
[21:35] <chrisccoulson> jdstrand - via e-mail at the moment, although there's not much in the way of details. that's something i need to start pushing along next week though
[21:35] <chrisccoulson> i'll make sure you're involved with that
[21:35] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: ok. I very much appreciate it
[21:36] <micahg> chrisccoulson: now that we have another week, what's the plan?
[21:36] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: please CC<EMAIL_ADDRESS>so our whole team can know what is happening (in the case of regressions, any one of us may need to respond)
[21:36] <chrisccoulson> jdstrand - ok, will do
[21:36] <micahg> chrisccoulson: also, can you CC me on the test stuff also, please
[21:36] <chrisccoulson> micahg - the plan is the same (get hardy ready, then work on karmic and jaunty)
[21:37] <chrisccoulson> giving priority to getting extensions updated too
[21:37] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: again, I apologize if I am being a pain :) I want what we all want: a smoothe update
[21:37] <micahg> chrisccoulson: k, the thing is that extensions compile against xul, so that's a possible issue as well
[21:37] <chrisccoulson> jdstrand - no worries ;)
[21:38] <jdstrand> I just happen to know what regressions in stable releases feel like, and it is no fun.... avoiding them is *way* better ;)
[21:38] <chrisccoulson> i feel your pain - i expect i probably won't sleep much between now and roll-out ;)
[21:38] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: through testing comes confidence
[21:38] <asac> chrisccoulson: jdstrand: send a mail to Dan asking you to be added to security-announce ... if you dont get added by mid next week let me know
[21:38] <chrisccoulson> asac - thanks
[21:39] <jdstrand> if we can be confident that the vast majority of users will have a smooth upgrade, that is a very good thing
[21:39] <chrisccoulson> jdstrand - if you want, then you can already start testing hardy
[21:39] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: well, that is how this conversation started
[21:39] <chrisccoulson> (firefox and xulrunner are in the PPA, along with ubufox and some other extensions)
[21:39] <chrisccoulson> but not everything is there yet
[21:39] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: I was told some 30 things needed to be uploaded still
[21:39] <jdstrand> ok
[21:40] <chrisccoulson> jdstrand - yeah, that's right. but the major thing is updated already :)
[21:41] <micahg> chrisccoulson: firefox is less likely to break in Hardy than the rdepends/extensions(plugins)
[21:41] <jdstrand> that may be, but we need to test it all :)
[21:41] <micahg> jdstrand: of course
[21:41]  * jdstrand goes to download
[21:45] <chrisccoulson> are powerpc and hppa officially supported on hardy?
[21:46] <chrisccoulson> oh, that's not too bad. webkit only fails to build on those arch's because the symbols files need updating
[21:48] <micahg> chrisccoulson: according to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/PackageArchive#Official%20Architectures the answer is no
[21:48] <chrisccoulson> micahg - thanks. it doesn't matter too much, as it looks like the webkit build failure is a trivial issue anyway
[21:48] <micahg> chrisccoulson: it'll matter is the rdepends FTBFS though :)
[21:49] <chrisccoulson> right, i can't build libproxy, enable the gnome component in libsoup and build epiphany until webkit has built ;)
[21:49] <micahg> chrisccoulson: I mean the xul rdepends :)
[21:50] <chrisccoulson> ah
[21:50] <jdstrand> fwiw, imo if it didn't build before don't worry about it. if say, epiphany did build on powerpc and doesn't because say webkit doesn't build, that is a problem
[21:50] <jdstrand> s/and doesn't/and doesn't now/
[22:01] <asac> jdstrand: chrisccoulson: you got mail?
[22:02] <chrisccoulson> asac - not yet
[22:02] <chrisccoulson> asac - oh, actually, i did ;)
[22:02] <chrisccoulson> my mail filter moved it in to my mozilla mailing list folder ;)
[22:03] <chrisccoulson> i probably should have checked there first
[22:03] <asac> cool
[22:05] <fta> is it clear enough? http://paste.ubuntu.com/441058/
[22:05] <fta> ..that it will be wiped out at the end of the session
[22:09] <BUGabundo> asac: https://edge.launchpad.net/~network-manager/+archive/trunk you lazy arse :)
[22:11] <fta> ?
[22:13] <asac> BUGabundo: please ping cyphermox
[22:13] <asac> that should have been set free already
[22:14] <asac> fta: what is the temp provile for?
[22:14] <asac> fta: i would say: "--temp-profile"
[22:15] <fta> asac, debugging, testing stuff with a fresh profile, ..
[22:15] <fta> i wanted to express the idea that it will be removed
[22:15] <asac> right. but temp implies that better imo
[22:15] <BUGabundo> asac: so you basicly don't do any more work anymore? just delegate ? :D
[22:16] <asac> BUGabundo: i want to give others a chance to step up ..
[22:16] <BUGabundo> okay
[22:20] <fta> asac, http://paste.ubuntu.com/441065/ ?
[22:21] <asac> not sure if clean is the right word ... maybe "Start with a new and temporary profile"
[22:21] <asac> i think clean is just computer slang
[22:21] <asac> or "Start with an empty and temporary profile"
[22:22] <asac> but in the end it doesnt matter much
[22:22] <asac> i think typical use is: BUGabundo complains that everything crashes; you say: try with --temp-profile ;)
[22:22] <BUGabundo> yep
[22:23] <BUGabundo> and it works
[22:23] <asac> oh ... you already tested. nice.
[22:25] <BUGabundo> asac: alias chromiumnew='chromiumdatadir="$(mktemp -d)";chromiumdiskcache="$(mktemp -d)";chromium-browser --user-data-dir=$chromiumdatadir --disk-cache-dir=$chromiumdiskcache'
[22:26] <fta> will be unnecessary tomorrow
[22:27] <BUGabundo> don't care
[22:27] <BUGabundo> wfm
[22:27] <BUGabundo> :)
[22:28] <BUGabundo> and 'should' always work , with any version of chromium or chrome in pretty much any OS
[22:28] <fta> i like jdstrand's idea too: http://penguindroppings.wordpress.com/2010/05/17/browser-profiles-in-chromium/
[22:31] <asac> yeah ... multi profile is good
[22:31] <asac> but its perceived as too power userish ;)
[22:32] <fta> most users won't even notice, users never read man pages
[22:35] <asac> right. and for firefox its just legacy afik ... they officially dont support multiple profiles
[22:40] <BUGabundo> they aren't??
[22:40] <BUGabundo> that's a major loss
[22:45] <chrisccoulson> bah, we have far too many extensions in the archive ;)
[23:06] <asac> chrisccoulson: right. thats what i meant
[23:11] <fta> oh my, the new ffmpeg killed mplayer
[23:11] <fta> mplayer: relocation error: mplayer: symbol codec_wav_tags, version LIBAVFORMAT_52 not defined in file libavformat.so.52 with link time reference


[01:35] <soee> !info glxspheres
[07:16] <alkisg> Now with logind, what's the equivalent of `ck-list-sessions`?
[09:46] <randomcpp> hello everyone
[09:46] <randomcpp> does anyone here use fglrx drivers from trusty?
[10:26] <elhoir> me
[10:26] <elhoir> im using fglrx in trusty
[10:27] <elhoir> randomcpp, :)
[10:27] <elhoir> but im about switching to open source radeon driver
[10:28]  * elhoir is already using the OS driver for his laptop
[10:32] <randomcpp> elhoir,
[10:32] <randomcpp> do you use unity too?
[10:39] <randomcpp> I'm asking because I'm having some troubles since I've installed fglrx 13.12, that I haven't had before..
[10:40] <randomcpp> it's some sort of screen flickering
[10:43] <Wubix> randomcpp: have you checked if your screen is detected properly and the right screen resolution is used?
[10:45] <randomcpp> This problem appears to be unity only..on gnome-shell I hadn't had a flicker for an entire day
[11:01] <randomcpp>  opening the dash causes a lot of flickering
[11:43] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[11:44] <elhoir> randomcpp, i use Unity too, yes
[11:44] <elhoir> but i have not the issue you say
[11:44] <elhoir> :/
[11:45] <elhoir> the more problematic issue i have is not being able to log out from X
[11:45] <elhoir> only shutdown or reboot
[11:46] <randomcpp> :/
[11:46] <elhoir> gotta go, sorry
[11:47] <randomcpp> ok bye :)
[13:34] <elhoir> randomcpp, im here again
[13:34] <randomcpp> hi elhoir
[13:36] <Wubix> :)
[13:36] <elhoir> as i said, im planning to switch to the open source radeon driver
[13:37] <elhoir> because i feel fglrx is a bit slow
[13:37] <elhoir> but i have haD NO ISSUES WITH IT
[13:37] <elhoir> oh, sorry
[13:37] <elhoir> i have had no issues with it
[13:37] <randomcpp> I've tried them, but I notice that the gpu is warmer with oss drivers :/
[13:38] <elhoir> warmer = more heat ?
[13:38] <penguin42> randomcpp: I think power management went in fairly recently on the open drivers - and I'm not sure if it's on by default
[13:38] <randomcpp> elhoir, yep
[13:38] <elhoir> randomcpp, try enabling dmp
[13:38] <elhoir> dpm
[13:39] <elhoir> http://askubuntu.com/questions/324733/how-to-enable-the-radeon-dynamic-power-management-feature-in-ubuntu-13-04
[13:39]  * randomcpp is already reading :p
[13:39] <elhoir> :)
[13:40] <elhoir> penguin42, its not, afaik
[13:40] <elhoir> it will be in kernel 3.13, if i read correctly
[13:40] <randomcpp> elhoir, my card is a hd5650 mobility
[13:40] <randomcpp> btw
[13:40] <elhoir> mine is a HD 6570
[13:40] <elhoir> and i have a 4550 in my laptop
[13:41] <elhoir> 5145, to be more precise xd
[13:42] <randomcpp> is it just a flag in grub right?
[13:43] <elhoir> yes
[13:43] <elhoir> let me show you my line
[13:43] <elhoir> GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="splash nopat quiet radeon.dpm=1 crashkernel=384M-2G:64M,2G-:128M crashkernel=384M-2G:64M,2G-:128M"
[13:43] <randomcpp> sudo apt-get remove --purge fglrx-amdcccle-updates fglrx-updates fglrx-updates-dev :D
[13:43] <elhoir> look a the "radeon.dpm=1"
[13:44] <randomcpp> what's nopat for? (curiosity :p)
[13:44] <elhoir> randomcpp, i'd better use the software-properties-gtk applet
[13:44] <elhoir> nopat... no idea, but... "if something works, do not touch it" :P
[13:45] <randomcpp> elhoir, I never liked it, I always managed to install fglrx drivers manually
[13:45] <randomcpp> lol
[13:47] <randomcpp> reboot see you later
[13:47] <randomcpp> wish me good luck :D
[13:50] <elhoir> randomcpp, hey :)
[13:50] <randomcpp> I'm back
[13:50] <elhoir> a clue: instead of "sudo apt-get remove --purge", you can "sudo apt-get purge" directly
[13:50] <elhoir> :)
[13:51] <randomcpp> uvd    vclk: 0 dclk: 0
[13:51] <randomcpp> power level 0    sclk: 40000 mclk: 79000 vddc: 950 vddci: 0
[13:51] <elhoir> ^^
[13:52] <randomcpp> temperature is around 59°C
[13:53] <randomcpp> I should check some steam games if they work
[13:55] <randomcpp> D: euro truck simulator doesn't work
[13:55] <randomcpp> serious sam 3 works
[13:56] <elhoir> im not sure steam works with AMD cards
[13:56] <elhoir> its astonishing slow even with fglrx
[13:58] <randomcpp> psychonauts works too
[13:58] <randomcpp> euro truck sim works pretty good with fglrx drivers though
[14:03] <randomcpp> can I calibrate external monitor colors with oss drivers?
[14:16] <randomcpp> with oss driver smooth scrolling in firefox is really smooth :)
[14:41] <elhoir_> are you running unity with os drivers?
[14:52] <randomcpp> elhoir_, yep
[14:53] <elhoir_> ...and? how smooth is it? :)
[14:53] <randomcpp> very smooth :)
[14:54] <randomcpp> it's just euro truck simulator that doesn't work D:
[14:54] <elhoir_> :(
[14:54] <randomcpp> other games (SS3 psychonauts..) seem to run fine though
[14:55] <elhoir_> run glxgears and see FPSs :)
[14:56] <randomcpp> temperature seems also ok with gpm enabled
[14:56] <randomcpp> 60 fps :p vertical sync enabled >.<
[14:56] <elhoir_> thats good :)
[14:57] <elhoir_> definitely i will switch to them
[14:57] <randomcpp> how can I disable vsync in radeon?
[14:57] <elhoir_> try running driconf
[15:00] <randomcpp> I can't find anything vsync related in driconf
[15:01] <elhoir> no idea then....
[15:01] <elhoir> sorry
[15:01] <randomcpp> np
[15:01] <randomcpp> do you know how can I calibrate monitor colors?
[15:02] <elhoir> no idea either :(
[15:02] <elhoir> oh wait
[15:02] <elhoir> in the System Settings menu
[15:03] <elhoir> there is a "color" option
[15:03] <elhoir> i havent tried, but....
[15:03] <elhoir> maybe it is there
[15:03] <randomcpp> yeah but calibrate.. is greyed out
[15:03] <elhoir> try adding a profile
[15:03] <elhoir> or something like it
[15:04] <randomcpp> I've already tried nothing seems to work
[15:04] <elhoir> aha... if you say "show details", it tells you about  installins additional packages
[15:04] <elhoir> lets see what happens :)
[15:05] <randomcpp> elhoir, I've already installed those pkgs
[15:06] <randomcpp> my external monitor is old and it has weird contrast
[15:06] <randomcpp> with fglrx I've found a good setting for this issue
[15:07] <elhoir> no idea then ... :(
[15:07] <randomcpp> but unity is smooooth as butter :p
[15:53] <elhoir> rebooting
[16:10] <elhoir> back
[22:48] <elhoir|wrk> lets see what does XMir bring to 14.04 :)
[22:56] <randomcpp> elhoir|wrk, have you switched to radeon? :)
[22:57] <elhoir|wrk> randomcpp: not yet, im waiting for about 300 MB downloads before switching and rebooting :)
[22:57] <elhoir|wrk> 300 MB of updates download, i mean :)
[22:57] <randomcpp> yeah I get it :)
[22:58] <elhoir|wrk> most of games switch to a "medium" graphics quality, because oss drivers report my card as RV710
[22:58] <elhoir|wrk> which is unknown
[22:59] <elhoir|wrk> instead of "HD 4500"
[22:59] <elhoir|wrk> which would be known
[22:59] <elhoir|wrk> :(
[22:59] <randomcpp> :/
[22:59] <elhoir|wrk> but if you set graphics to "high" it works xd
[22:59] <elhoir|wrk> its a bit tricky
[22:59] <randomcpp> I still don't have a clue why euro truck doesn't work :(
[22:59] <elhoir|wrk> :P
[23:00] <randomcpp> is it a mobility or desktop?
[23:00] <elhoir|wrk> mobility
[23:00] <elhoir|wrk> its a laptoip
[23:00] <elhoir|wrk> laptop
[23:00] <elhoir|wrk> i have a HD 6570 in my desktop PC
[23:00] <randomcpp> yeah I have a hd mobility too..but I can't get games to run full details
[23:00] <elhoir|wrk> well im not a gamer...
[23:01] <elhoir|wrk> games i play are... quite old
[23:01] <randomcpp> even if it's a bit newer than yours (hd 5650 1gb)
[23:01] <elhoir|wrk> not very high requirements
[23:02] <randomcpp> for example? :) (I'm curious)
[23:02] <elhoir|wrk> Amnesia, iirc :)
[23:02] <elhoir|wrk> GTA San Andreas
[23:03] <elhoir|wrk> ...
[23:03] <randomcpp> well amnesia has nice graphics imho
[23:03] <elhoir|wrk> yeah
[23:03] <elhoir|wrk> i love the game
[23:04] <randomcpp> I'm a bit stuck somewhere..I don't remember where at the moment..next summer after exams I'll finish it I promise :P
[23:16] <elhoir|wrk> i went until the water monster 1st appear
[23:16] <elhoir|wrk> couldnt pass that scenario
[23:16] <elhoir|wrk> :(
[23:18] <randomcpp> that damn water!
[23:18] <randomcpp> I think I'm there too
[23:32] <randomcpp> goodnight :)


[01:55] <lukehasnoname> I ran into a few bugs today, and I think they belong to either the installer or the kernel or the x team
[01:55] <lukehasnoname> I don't know
[01:56] <lukehasnoname> uvesafb and v86d errors on boot, and an error running post boot oem-config at boot'
[01:56] <lukehasnoname> Very obnoxious and crippling, unless you know what you are doing, which I only halfway do in this instance
[02:08] <lukehasnoname> http://mibbit.com/pb/3ui0Ts
[02:08] <lukehasnoname> I will likely mail the kernel and installer MLs after some things to do this evening.
[02:08] <lukehasnoname> I don't like being on Vista unless I'm gaming or .NET'ing. Help a bro out and figure this one out!
[02:13] <CarlFK> how did you install the driver ?
[04:17] <lukehasnoname> CarlFK: ... I just installed the OS, I didn't install anything manually.
[04:18] <lukehasnoname> Everything was done via the installer, which is why I didn't know if I should talk here (I assumed things that happened during boot would likely be involved with the kernel
[04:18] <lukehasnoname> ) or if I should put it to the installer guys
[04:43] <ripper> Hello there!
[04:44] <ripper> BenC, Hi Ben
[06:47] <erichj> is bug #260675 going to be addressed in time for 8.10 release?
[06:47] <erichj> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+source/wacom-tools/+bug/260675
[09:32] <AnAnt> Hello, when will 2.6.27-6.9 be available in Intrepid ?
[09:37] <abogani> AnAnt: Now
[09:39] <AnAnt> abogani: thanks
[09:42] <AnAnt> abogani: will it enter the Queue, or will it immediately appear on the repos ?
[09:43] <abogani> AnAnt: I just reboot my laptop with it.
[09:44] <AnAnt> abogani: ?
[09:44] <AnAnt> abogani: rmadison still reports <IP_ADDRESS>.7 for Intrepid
[09:48] <AnAnt> abogani: are you gettings updates from some PPA ?
[09:48] <abogani> AnAnt: No
[09:49] <AnAnt> -> http://eg.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/l/linux-meta/  latest is <IP_ADDRESS>.7
[09:51] <AnAnt> abogani: can you tell me which repo you got it from ? grep "intrepid.*main" /etc/apt/archives
[09:53] <abogani> AnAnt: http://paste.ubuntu.com/55212/
[09:59] <AnAnt> ok, thanks
[09:59] <AnAnt> and sorry
[13:16] <Keybuk> if I said "systemtap", would I hear screaming? :p
[13:17] <tseliot> Keybuk: hmm... maybe try with dtrace ? ;)
[13:19] <amitk> Keybuk: systemtap works?
[13:21] <ogra> amitk, oh, youre around ?
[13:22] <amitk> ogra: depends on what you want ;)
[13:23] <ogra> amitk, well, lool gave me tohe todo to look at the ath5k issues before release with you :)
[13:24] <amitk> ogra: ath5k issues as in why it doesn't work on the Q1 or to blacklist it?
[13:24] <ogra> he belives its Q1 specific that it doesnt work so it must be something with the HW combo
[13:24] <ogra> his hope is that we either geti it working or blacklist it inside the module against the device
[13:25] <ogra> (which i dont belive is possible)
[13:25] <amitk> ogra: it should be.. using a PCI device quirk
[13:26] <ogra> hmm
[13:26] <amitk> I can look at the Q1 + ath5k issues tomorrow. Did you try LRM?
[13:26] <ogra> works perfectly
[13:27] <ogra> the one issue i have is if i add a blacklist file to exclude ath5k, pm-utils autoloads it on resume, but i added a fix to pm-utils for that
[13:27] <ogra> everything else works fine
[13:28] <amitk> too bad... It would really be nice if we could get the open driver working.
[13:28] <ogra> yeah
[13:28] <ogra> well, we still have a week or so ..., so we could still try if you want to invest time
[13:28] <amitk> I'll look at it tomorrow. Does the -mid image use the lpiacompat kernel?
[13:29] <ogra> no, lpia
[13:29] <Keybuk> amitk: I haven't tried, people claim it does
[13:29] <rtg> amitk, ogra: we're going to end up backporting 2.6.28 wireless drivers before things start working well. A lot of stuff missed the 2.6.27 merge window.
[13:29] <ogra> they also have lrm, so we have a waorking solution in any case, no matter what we come up with
[13:30] <amitk> Keybuk: I tried real quick during the systemtap talk at plumbers conf. Didn't get it to work immediately...
[13:30] <amitk> rtg: is that the wireless work you mentioned you will be doing this week?
[13:31] <ogra> rtg, is that in intrepid timeframe ?
[13:31] <rtg> it'll be much like Hardy LBM is now. e.g., backported 2.6.27 drivers.
[13:32] <rtg> amitk: the wireless work I'm doing this week is just profiling the cards that I have to find out what works out of the box.
[13:32] <ogra> rtg, so i still need a workaround for the final image then (it would be bad if ubuntu-mobile wouldnt work on the reference platform we advertise)
[13:33] <rtg> ogra: what wireless card?
[13:33] <ogra> ath5k ... let me look up the exact chipset name
[13:33] <rtg> its probably AR2412
[13:34] <ogra> AR242x 802.11abg
[13:34] <rtg> ah, AR2424.
[13:34] <ogra> on the samsung Q1 sepcifically, we have users claiming it works on a different HW combo with that chipset
[13:35] <rtg> ogra: I may have one of those.
[13:35] <ogra> (though unencrypted)
[13:35] <ogra> rtg, bug 274832 has some info
[13:36] <ogra> (note that it doesnt seem to matter if you are on -generic or -lpia, though the bug is about lpia here)
[13:36] <rtg> where is ubuntoid when you need it
[13:36] <ogra> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mobile-meta/+bug/274832
[13:36] <ogra> :)
[13:38] <rtg> ogra: there is an LRM package for lpia now, correct? Are you using madwifi or ath5k?
[13:40] <ogra> well, we have two images now, ubutntu-mobile and ubuntu-mid, mid uses lpia and mobile is just a desktop install with customized look and feel, both install lrm now and the wifi works with it, for both wifi doesnt work with ath5k
[13:40] <ogra> (on the Q1)
[13:41] <rtg> ogra: ok, I'm booting to see what Atheros card I have.
[13:44]  * Keybuk alive
[13:44]  * Keybuk really alive
[13:46] <Keybuk> amitk: linux-image-debug went away?
[13:51] <amitk> Keybuk: not that I remember. debian/control has an entry too
[13:52] <Keybuk> amitk: I can't see it in the archive
[13:53] <amitk> Keybuk: hmm.. there is no meta package for linux-debug though
[13:54] <rtg> ogra: all I have are ath9k devices.
[13:54] <ogra> meh
[13:54] <Keybuk> amitk: I can't see the real package, let along any meta packages ;)
[13:55] <amitk> Keybuk: yeah.. same here. Wading through git now...
[13:57] <ogra> linux-image-debug-386
[13:57]  * ogra sees a i386 one
[13:59] <ogra> ah, referring to linux-image-debug-2.6.25-2-386
[14:03]  * amitk looks towards rtg and BenC
[14:03] <amitk> Keybuk: rules.d/0-common-vars.mk:skipdbg                = true
[14:03]  * ogra thinks he remembers a complaint from elmo about archive space
[14:04] <ogra> (referring to linux debug stuff)
[14:05] <ogra> aha
[14:05] <ogra>   * Remove debug meta packages since they are no longer publicly built (they
[14:05] <ogra>     are now ddeb's)
[14:05] <ogra>  -- Ben Collins<EMAIL_ADDRESS>Sat, 26 Jul 2008 15:05:00 -0400
[14:06] <ogra> linux-crashdump should pul in the necessary stuff as i understand the changelogs
[14:06] <rtg> ogra: I found an lpia device using AR2424, but I can't run 2.627 on it 'cause I don't have support for the display.
[14:07] <laga_> ssh?
[14:07] <ogra> rtg, psb chipset ?
[14:07] <rtg> ogra: yep
[14:08] <ogra> vesa should work, just make sure you uninstall the xserver-xorg-video-psb package
[14:08] <ogra> it was a dep of xserver-xorg-video-all until recently and braks the display
[14:08] <ogra> *breaks
[14:32] <Keybuk> ogra: ah, well caught
[14:33] <Keybuk> interesting case that though
[14:33] <Keybuk> since the ddeb is a dependency of something in the archive ;)
[15:02] <Keybuk> quest scott# stap -e 'probe begin { print("hello world\n") exit() }'
[15:02] <Keybuk> hello world
[15:02] <Keybuk> \o/
[15:40] <pitti> hi
[15:40] <pitti> Keybuk: you called? (sorry, I'm late, went to the supermarket)
[15:41] <Keybuk> pitti: interesting thing
[15:42] <Keybuk> systemtap depends on linux-image-debug
[15:42] <Keybuk> which is no longer in the archive, but a ddeb now
[15:44] <pitti> oh, is that the reason why it doesn't want to work out of the box?
[15:44] <pitti> (although the problem seemed to be much more general)
[15:44] <pitti> I can't even get the "hello world" example to run
[15:45] <Keybuk> you need an updated systemtap from Debian and linux-image-debug
[15:45] <Keybuk> then it works
[15:47] <pitti> ah, nice to know
[15:47] <pitti> but our -dbgsym doesn't, I take it?
[15:47] <Keybuk> we don't have a -dbgsym?
[15:48] <Keybuk> I was more asking why the deb is now a ddeb and on the other archive
[15:48] <pitti> does our pkg-create-dbgsym and the normal objcopy even work with the kernel?
[15:48] <pitti> Keybuk: well, I remember that there was a discussion about this once, but so far p-c-d doesn't have any special knowledge about kernel debug symbols
[15:48] <pitti> I wasn't really aware that it got dropped
[15:49] <Keybuk> it hasn't been dropped
[15:49] <Keybuk> err, let me back up
[15:49] <Keybuk> there's a package, called linux-image-debug-$flavour-$version
[15:50] <Keybuk> this contains the debug symbols for the kernel and its modules
[15:50] <Keybuk> it _used_ to be in the archive
[15:50] <Keybuk> but now, it's on ddebs.ubuntu.com (and named *.ddeb)
[15:50] <Keybuk> http://ddebs.ubuntu.com/pool/main/l/linux/
[15:53] <pitti> ooh, I think I remember
[15:54] <pitti> Keybuk: the discussion, AFAIR, was that this is very big, and they were concerned about mirror size
[15:54] <Keybuk> right
[15:54] <pitti> so the linux source package was changed to name it .ddeb instead of .deb
[15:54] <Keybuk> so this is a general dependency of systemtap, in that you can't use it without it
[15:54] <pitti> so that our buildd -> ddeb.u.c. magic would pick it up and place it there
[15:54] <Keybuk> which also means that we can't have anything in our archive that build-deps on systemtap :-/
[15:55] <pitti> it could only recommend -debug?
[15:55] <pitti> after all, people who use systemtap often build their own kernels anyway
[15:56] <Keybuk> well, it can't depend or recommend it at all
[15:56] <Keybuk> but it's useless without it
[15:57] <pitti> so, if the kernel team wants to keep the -debug.ddeb, it probably needs to be replaced by some runtime warning then?
[15:57] <pitti> "Enable ddeb archive and install -debug, kthxbye"
[15:57] <pitti> I'm not entirely sure about why -debug was moved to ddeb., just *how* it was done
[15:58] <Keybuk> it would be kinda cute to replace bootchart with a systemtap script
[15:58] <Keybuk> then we'd get really high quality reporting, with analysis of system calls, etc.
[16:01] <pitti> would be pretty expensive, though, if it really requires -debug
[16:03] <pitti> BenC, rtg: was there any other reason to move -debug to http://ddebs.u.c. than mirror space saving?
[16:04] <rtg> pitti: dunno, I wasn't involved in that one.
[16:04] <BenC> pitti: basically consistency with out debug type things
[16:05] <pitti> ok
[16:05] <pitti> If this runtime "proper error message" thing is feasible, that would certainly be helpful
[16:05] <pitti> also for people who build their own kernels, to tell them what they need to change to make systemtap work
[16:09] <rtg> I think its faster to reformat a drive then it is to remove a 40GB ccache directory
[16:10] <laga_> 40GB ccache sounds scary
[16:10] <rtg> laga_: i386/amd64 caches for every release since dapper
[16:11] <Keybuk> pitti: only expensive to compile
[16:11] <Keybuk> once built, it's just a kernel module
[16:16] <pitti> Keybuk: I meant expensive to download
[16:16] <Keybuk> pitti: ?
[16:16] <pitti> Keybuk: if you need to download and install some 200 MB of -debug image to use systemtap, that's expensive
[16:16] <Keybuk> sure
[16:17] <Keybuk> but that's what you need to download :)
[16:17] <Keybuk> well, that's what you need to download to develop and compile systemtap modules
[16:17] <pitti> right
[17:12] <jdong> is there another kernel upload scheduled before the final release?
[17:13] <jdong> if so, I'd like to beg for the pulling of some ath9k patches from wireless-testing.git
[17:14] <jdong> particularly, the ANI enable patch and oops due to spinlock typo
[17:22] <rtg> jdong: such as?
[17:28] <jdong> rtg: commits 7768a47e04750e128ae97bbc759a2f5bc60ba668 and a6ebef8b1933be9eb867858ca11dee3c87da896c in particular
[17:28] <jdong> rtg: the spinlock typo causes kernel oopses relating to ath9k, and without ANI ath9k gets only about half the effective range as madwifi in my testing
[17:29] <rtg> jdong: luis didn't get those in under the regression policy? Seems like an oops would qualify
[17:31] <jdong> rtg: I'm not sure about the timeline; I don't see it in linux-2.6.git yet
[17:31] <rtg> jdong: I'll talk to linville about the first one.
[17:32] <rtg> jdong: I'm going to almost certainly have a compat-wireless backport by the time Intrepid releases.
[17:32] <jdong> rtg: sounds good; thanks very much for your time :)
[17:42] <rtg> jdong: is there a bugzilla report on the oops?
[17:44] <jdong> rtg: not sure, but here's the ath9k-devel thread on it: https://lists.ath9k.org/pipermail/ath9k-devel/2008-October/000407.html
[17:44] <jdong> linville was involved
[17:46] <rtg> jdong: well, there was no confirmation at the end of the thread, so he probably forgot about it.
[17:47] <rtg> I just talked to him, I think he would get it in as  a regression if it had a bugzilla. care to create one?
[17:49] <jdong> rtg: well I've never filed a kernel bug before; I'm not sure I can get the format right the first time.
[18:15] <mathiaz> Hi - why is that linux-image-2.6.27-6-virtual ships ./boot/vmlinuz-2.6.27-6-server (and modules in ./lib/modules/2.6.27-6-server/) ?
[19:40] <erichj> is bug #260675 going to be addressed in time for 8.10 release?
[19:40] <erichj> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+source/wacom-tools/+bug/260675
[19:47] <rtg> erichj: it'll make the release.
[19:47] <erichj> rtg, thanks
[21:57] <foka> Hi!  I recently noticed that the Ubuntu kernel is compiled with CONFIG_X86_E_POWERSAVER turned off,
[21:57] <foka> Thus Ubuntu installed on VIA C7 notebooks do not enjoy cpufreq powersaving.
[22:00] <foka> Is that on-purpose, or an oversight?  (Debian kernel has it compiled as a module).  Thanks!


[02:26] <popey> guiverc i prefer popey over Popey or "Alan Pope" :D
[02:27] <guiverc> ack & thanks popey ... I'm happy with change to 'popey' Bashing-om
[02:27] <popey> It's fine. :D
[02:32] <Bashing-om> popey: OK - but the leading character in a sentence should be capitalized :D
[02:33] <popey> I hate my nickname being capitalised, I never do it
[02:33] <guiverc> In regards the Ubuntu UK Loco's reboot effort, popey makes a request ....
[02:33] <guiverc> (maybe ^)
[02:34] <Bashing-om> we do - something :D
[02:34]  * guiverc not sure i like that, but it avoids the "popey" start of sentence...
[02:38] <Bashing-om> guiverc: popey: Herein popey, in Ubuntu UK Loco's reboot effort ... :D
[02:38] <guiverc> fewer characters required to amend it to that...  :)
[19:56] <Bashing-om> UWN: Pulling WIP/WIKI cleaning up - Log checked, no further edits are known - will start the push soonest.
[20:07] <Bashing-om> UWN: M/L is away - doing the Forums posting next.
[20:15] <Bashing-om> UWN: Forums posting done - making up a Mastodon blog next.
[20:46] <guiverc> script issues; so populated fridge manually; considering skipping updates & security (as none)
[20:50] <guiverc> https://fridge.ubuntu.com/2024/01/01/ubuntu-weekly-newsletter-820/
[20:54] <Bashing-om> Fridge: Looks good.
[20:54] <guiverc> thanks Bashing-om  (missing bit is just copy/paste & add a few

[20:54] <Bashing-om> Making up Issue821.
[20:55] <guiverc> have tweeted 821, posted to telegram, (about to mewe)
[20:58] <guiverc> s/821/820 ^
[21:02] <Bashing-om> UWN: And 821 off and running.
[21:03] <guiverc> 820 also posted fb
[21:08] <Bashing-om> \o/ now a bit of breth :D
[21:09] <Bashing-om> UWN: Mastodon blog made; such as it can be :D


[02:16] <silvia> help! Lost my upper bar
[02:16] <silvia> what to do?
[02:23] <kernal> you need a new panel
[02:24] <kernal> can you load mate-tweak from the terminal?
[02:24] <kernal> ohh he's gone
[03:38] <mate|30017> Is possible to disable ssh-agent on ubuntu mate 16.04?
[03:38] <kernal> disable SSH?
[03:38] <kernal> there should be
[03:38] <mate|30017> yes
[03:39] <mate|30017> is a process called ssh-agent runing
[03:40] <kernal> I don't know is there?
[03:40] <mate|30017> running
[12:51] <rdp_> hello
[13:05] <CrazyTux> hello, I had installed KDE Plasma DE on top of Ubuntu Mate. Since I found it was causing some problems I removed it later. Some traces of KDE Plasma are still left. How can I remove all the traces of KDE Plasma now?
[13:09] <sixwheeledbeast> what sort of traces? I'd probably grab a backup of my /home and do a fresh install.
[13:09] <CrazyTux> some applications of Kubuntu are still remaining
[13:15] <sixwheeledbeast> You would have to remove them manually I imagine.
[13:22] <CrazyTux> sixwheeledbeast, I will try.
[13:44] <mate|63728> hi
[14:02] <CrazyTux> hi
[14:07] <rdp_> i have some problem with authentination
[14:48] <rdp_> hiiiiii
[14:49] <rdp_> any one plz help
[14:52] <diogenes_> rdp_, what authentication?
[15:12] <rdp_> hiiiii
[15:12] <rdp_> ????????
[15:13] <Boyette> ?
[15:17] <rdp_> i don't know my password for admin login could you plz help
[15:17] <Boyette> yes
[15:18] <Boyette> reinstall your os
[15:19] <rdp_> but how to it
[15:20] <rdp_> actually i don't know any thing
[16:02] <usomigo> hi all, how do I make the script that changes the wallpaper on every workspace change, stay in memory and not only run "once" to set the first wallpaper? The script works when running from terminal, but not when adding it to the startup apps, then only the first one get set...
[16:04] <diogenes_> usomigo, if the scrpt works in terminal then it should work on startup too
[16:08] <usomigo> diogenes_, well, it sets the first desktop wallpaper fine, but then it does not continue to change the wallpapers when I change workspace. It does that fine when I run the script from terminal with ./[scriptname] , but entering "[scriptname] &" as a Startup Application does not seem to keep it in memory after the first "pass"...
[16:13] <diogenes_> usomigo, maybe you can do something like this: https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/47695/how-to-write-startup-script-for-systemd
[16:21] <usomigo> diogenes_, thanks for the tip/link, will check it. First I am now going to reboot to check if just a portion of the script may work by itself. What is the difference between starting a script with #!/bin/bash versus #!/bin/sh ?? Does that make a difference between running in terminal vs. automatically running on login?
[16:23] <diogenes_> usomigo, https://askubuntu.com/questions/141928/what-is-difference-between-bin-sh-and-bin-bash
[16:24] <usomigo> all; how (where?) to set keyboard shortcuts for increasing/decreasing window transparency in the Marco window compositor?
[16:24] <diogenes_> I use compiz only
[16:28] <usomigo> diogenes_, I normally use Compiz as well, but right now I am testing out the Raspberry Pi environment with Ubuntu Mate on very low RAM, so Compiz is too heavy for this
[16:29] <usomigo> diogenes_, thanks for the references, good info
[16:30] <usomigo> (rebooting the computer in a few moments)
[16:30] <diogenes_> I noticed compiz doesn't take more than 24 mb for me
[17:42] <rock64> Hi
[17:42] <rock64> Total Newbie here
[17:43] <diogenes_> welcome newbie
[17:43] <rock64> Hi thank you Diogenes
[17:43] <diogenes_> you're welcome Mr. Newbie
[17:43] <rock64> :) My name is Sai
[17:44] <diogenes_> ok Sai, how do you like ubuntu mate?
[17:44] <rock64> Am running Ubuntu Mate on Rock64 SBC
[17:45] <rock64> Its Gr8 so far
[17:46] <rock64> trying to Install Panda Wireless Drivers PAU06
[17:47] <rock64> please help me installing the drivers pls...
[17:48] <rock64> am used to running exe's on windows
[20:49] <ligh> Hi
[20:51] <ligh> Using MATE 16.04 LTS; searching without success for the right keywords to find a guide how to increase the sensitive width of window borders as grip to resize with the mouse.
[20:51] <ligh> 1 pixel is too small.
[21:16] <alkisg> ligh, https://ubuntu-mate.community/t/make-window-resizing-easier-out-of-the-box/5845/6
[21:18] <ligh> Thanks, I will study this.
[21:19] <ligh> Also I try to install gcc-7, there is a PPA by ~jonathonf on launchpad; but it is not signed, thus refused...
[21:21] <ligh> Hmm, depends on how I add the repo.
[21:22] <ligh> Synaptic doesn't like the deb address, but apt-get works.
[21:24] <ligh> bye


[04:52] <mapp> hi all
[05:46] <mapp> diddledan
[05:46] <mapp> diod you watch ep 2 of csi cyber
[10:09] <MooDoo> morning all
[10:09] <MooDoo> mapp: i did
[10:37] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[10:56] <MooDoo> morning brobostigon
[11:15] <brobostigon> morning MooDoo
[14:36]  * penguin42 uses the phrase 'a pool of gently festering chocolate goo' in a mail to ambrosia to explain why they need to improve the packaging on their chocolate custard
[14:42] <zmoylan-pi> their marketing department will waste a lot of time trying to work that into an advert
[14:43] <penguin42> and I'll be proud if they do
[14:43] <zmoylan-pi> nah, you'll be out looking for an intact carton of chocolate custard
[15:51] <daftykins> penguin42: :D
[15:52] <daftykins> i had an almost impossible decision at a restaurant for lunch, cheesecake... sticky toffee pudding or brownie
[15:52] <penguin42> so you got all of them?
[15:52] <daftykins> nah, just the one! i've gained a bit too much weight during the downtime since hospital
[16:01] <penguin42> so it was the STP ?
[16:02] <daftykins> i find it's tough for them to get that one right, so i went brownie - controversially
[16:04] <penguin42> well, chocolatey goodness - no cfc available?
[16:05] <daftykins> chlorofluorocarbons ? o0
[16:05] <penguin42> Chocolate Fudge Cake
[16:28] <diddledan> choccy fudge cake is teh awesome
[16:28] <penguin42> nod, especially when it's given like 10s in a microwave to fudgicate it
[16:29] <daftykins> no fudge cake nope :(
[16:29] <daftykins> as it was i was going to stop drinking Guinness but i snuck a 4 pack into my shopping Friday
[16:30] <daftykins> and polished off two last night before bed ;)
[16:39] <diddledan> the google mothering sunday doodle is cute
[16:41] <daftykins> ^_^
[17:02] <SuperEngineer> hurumph!  get-iplayer still snafu'd by BBC!
[17:02] <daftykins> :(
[17:02] <daftykins> i'm sure someone in here had it working well after i'd noticed it was borked also
[17:03]  * SuperEngineer composes letter "Dear Beeb, you ba***rds"
[17:03] <daftykins> i was definitely trying the latest build from the site of whoever took over development
[17:05] <SuperEngineer> [I wouldn't mind so much if they didn't have a hate campaign against all those who had to work today and wanted to see a replay of F1]
[17:06]  * SuperEngineer wonders if there is a discrimination case against the beeb to be had out of this ;)
[17:06] <diddledan> it annoys me that the beeb only have highlights of f1 on the iplayer instead of a full replay (when they had the full play rights to a race as opposed to sky-crippled highlights-only)
[17:06] <SuperEngineer> +1
[17:07] <diddledan> I get that they agreed that sky get full-play to all races and the beeb only get full-play on some, but if they had full-play on a particular race I don't see why they can't put that on the iplayer
[17:08] <diddledan> it was a bit of a slap in the face by the beeb in agreeing to the deal anyway
[17:09] <SuperEngineer> again, +1
[17:10] <diddledan> I'm betting bernie ecclestone made a mint though, so it's all good -_-
[17:10] <daftykins> :(
[17:13] <diddledan> it looks like sky only do highlights replay, too
[17:14] <SuperEngineer> what, surely not! are you suggesting Ecclestone is finance only focused & couldn't give a damn about anybody but himself?!!!  That is an awful suggestion...
[17:15] <SuperEngineer> ..shame it's true though ;)
[17:17] <daftykins> on the bright side guys, you only need to see a couple of laps 'cause the rest are monotonous, so surely highlights are best :D
[17:47] <mapp> hi all
[17:48] <diddledan> allo
[18:21] <daftykins> evenin'
[18:29] <shauno> eyup
[18:32] <daftykins> setting up 2 factor authentication on my xbox account was kinda fun, turning on my xbox one asked me to authorise it on my phone app... so i pulled it out of my pocket and just had to hit 'yes' \o/
[18:32] <daftykins> though i'm concerned that's yet another app running constantly on the ol' phone, sapping juice
[18:32] <daftykins> 4GB DDR3 ordered for that cheap £208 Lenovo laptop, £20.99 delivered \o/
[18:33] <daftykins> that thing is now crazy fast with the free SSD too :)
[18:34] <penguin42> which laptop?
[18:34] <daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/7t7n5llpq5dyuc7/AACsIO22uCVR3MUceENXe3yla?dl=0
[18:34] <daftykins> this'un
[18:35] <daftykins> bit chunky at 15", but it'll do for the old girl
[18:35] <daftykins> free printer too, still don't know what to do with that :P
[18:36] <daftykins> the 7mm thick 500GB HDD in that thing is so skinny... https://www.dropbox.com/s/8xbkunl846l085x/IMG_20150314_154708.jpg?dl=0
[18:36] <daftykins> there's it beside one manufactured in 2012
[18:36] <penguin42> well it's not like the SSD needs the space for heads or platters or things that have to move over each other
[18:37] <daftykins> nah, both those are mechanical
[18:37] <daftykins> must be a single platter with the skinny one
[18:39] <penguin42> nod
[18:41] <daftykins> but yeah that 180GB intel SSD in there is flying now :) bit more mother proof since it can be flung around now too
[18:41] <penguin42> haha
[21:42] <diddledan> m00
[21:43] <shauno> mee00w.
[21:43] <zmoylan-pi> m=0000w
[21:43]  * diddledan stroke the kitty shauno
[21:48] <popey> pip pip
[21:48] <diddledan> allo
[22:30] <daftykins> evening
[22:30] <daftykins> just finished The Blues Brothers \o/
[22:31] <daftykins> now i need to pick a cheap graphics card for a friend, hmm
[22:31] <daftykins> nvidia GT 730 seems tempting 0o
[22:32] <diddledan> hehe - blues bros rock
[22:32] <daftykins> that they do :D
[22:38] <zmoylan-pi> the sequel was never going to be as good but i enjoyed it
[23:01] <popey> daftykins: i need a new graphics card at some point
[23:02] <popey> wtf GTA 5 pushed back _again_
[23:02] <daftykins> popey: what's the popey game machine rocking at the moment?
[23:02]  * popey wakes it up
[23:02] <popey> something crusty
[23:03] <daftykins> :D
[23:03] <popey> GTX 460 IIRC
[23:03] <daftykins> mmmhmm, do you have any budget in mind?
[23:03] <daftykins> nvidia 960s or 970s seem pretty nifty
[23:03] <popey> Yes, GTX 460
[23:03] <popey> will i be able to just pull the old card out and put a new one in?
[23:04] <popey> no additional PSU / mobo / cables etc?
[23:04] <daftykins> mmm depends if your one right now uses any PCI Express graphics power connectors from the PSU
[23:04] <daftykins> i'm not 100% on what power the 460s required
[23:05] <popey> yeah, will remove it from the pc at some point and examine it more closely
[23:05] <popey> my pc is not new / fast
[23:05] <popey> it works
[23:05] <daftykins> just an lspci entry should be plenty to go on?
[23:05] <popey> its in windows right now :)
[23:05] <daftykins> ah
[23:05] <daftykins> devmgmt.msc 8D
[23:05]  * webpigeon_ has a 660  in his
[23:05]  * popey reboots it
[23:06] <daftykins> appears to be £170~ for GTX 960s with 2GB, or ouch - £260+ for a GTX 970 4GB
[23:06] <popey> thats out of my budget
[23:06] <popey> I think no more than ~100 quid or so
[23:07] <daftykins> GTX 750 Ti then perhaps
[23:07] <popey> much of a step up from 460?
[23:07] <popey> worth it?
[23:07] <daftykins> lets pop them into the anandtech benchmarkerator
[23:09] <popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/10607008/ is my pc
[23:09] <popey> crusty msi mobo MS-7680
[23:09] <popey> i7-2600 @ 3.4GHz
[23:09] <daftykins> H61's a happy chappy, mmm 1155 sandybridge
[23:10] <daftykins> http://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Nvidia-GTX-750-Ti-vs-Nvidia-GTX-460/2187vs2167
[23:10] <daftykins> hrmm
[23:11] <webpigeon_> to be filled in my OEM is my favourite thing to see in dmidecode
[23:11] <daftykins> doesn't seem like too much of a jump actually, that might be too low a budget
[23:11] <daftykins> http://gpuboss.com/gpus/GeForce-GTX-750-Ti-vs-GeForce-GTX-460
[23:12] <daftykins> http://anandtech.com/bench/product/1135?vs=1130 closest i could find there was the GTX 480
[23:16] <popey> hmm
[23:16] <popey> might have to spend a bit more
[23:18] <daftykins> the 970 in comparison tramples even the 480 by a factor of 3 times higher framerates across the board, but is quite pricey - no entry in the table for the 960 sadly
[23:19] <daftykins> i think the 960 would be your best bet
[23:19] <daftykins> http://www.legitreviews.com/should-i-upgrade-my-geforce-gtx-460-to-a-geforce-gtx-960-video-card_157808/3
[23:19] <daftykins> cor, as if by magic
[23:19] <directhex> i hav a 6600. this pc's had a few upgrades over the years
[23:19] <directhex> still needs replacement
[23:20] <directhex> er, 660 not 6600
[23:20] <daftykins> directhex: would you concur on a 960 being a nice choice?
[23:20] <directhex> yeah, 960 is a good value card
[23:20] <directhex> 4 of them! quad sli!
[23:20] <daftykins> XD
[23:22] <popey> i doubt my mobo could take more than one :)
[23:22] <popey> oooh!
[23:22] <popey> It's my birthday soon!
[23:23] <popey> right, if someone else is buying (although it comes out of a joint account so technically I am buying) what card should I get :D
[23:23] <daftykins> http://www.overclockers.co.uk/productlist.php?groupid=701&catid=1914&subid=2379
[23:23] <daftykins> i like Asus ones i think
[23:23] <daftykins> i tend to just go with highest warranty
[23:24] <daftykins> hmm Zotac has 5 year
[23:24] <daftykins> i don't trust pre-overclocked cards though, always been burnt by those
[23:24] <popey> i had to replace the fans on this card
[23:29] <daftykins> do you recall the brand?
[23:30] <popey> i can probably find it in my past purchase history, one mo
[23:30] <popey> wifey asked me today if I wanted anything specifically on my amazon wishlist
[23:30] <daftykins> suddenly a graphics card appears as #1 :D
[23:31] <popey> 01de:0beb
[23:31] <popey> indeed!
[23:31] <popey> does the pci id reveal mfr?
[23:31] <popey> can't find the email
[23:32] <daftykins> i don't seem to be getting much from google
[23:32] <popey> http://uk.ign.com/articles/2015/01/13/gta-5-pc-release-date-and-system-specifications-announced says march 24
[23:33] <popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Grand-Theft-Auto-V-PC/dp/B00KL3W478 says april 14
[23:34] <daftykins> good ol' Rockstar, cashing in on the consoles most likely
[23:36] <webpigeon_> before the : should be the vendor ID, but i can't find any data on the vendor
[23:36] <daftykins> mmm same
[23:37] <popey> probably some cheapo crap
[23:38] <popey> i only have one 1080p screen attached, most games i play run at that resolution with sufficient stuff turned on for me to be entertained
[23:39] <daftykins> yeah 2GB would be fine for that imo
[23:39] <daftykins> there's talk of 4GB 960s but i think that just tends to be a 'bigger number' trap, or only benefit 4K types
[23:40] <webpigeon_> pointless anyway, opengl (used to, don't know if it still does) keep a copy of the texture in main memory anyway
[23:44] <popey> this box has uh.. 8GB i think
[23:44] <daftykins> i suspect we're firmly talking Direct3D for GTA V on PC
[23:45] <webpigeon_> if it's on Windows only, probably
[23:47] <directhex> popey: in most cases, no, pci id doesn't say manuf
[23:47] <directhex> HOWEVER
[23:47] <directhex> subsystem id does.
[23:47] <popey> yeah, GTA V is windows only i think
[23:48] <directhex> "lspci -v" will show subsystem
[23:48] <daftykins> nice to know my lovely old Q6600 Core 2 Quad is now minimum spec :>
[23:48] <directhex> 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: NVIDIA Corporation GK106 [GeForce GTX 660] (rev a1) (prog-if 00 [VGA controller])
[23:48] <directhex>         Subsystem: ZOTAC International (MCO) Ltd. Device 1281
[23:48] <popey> ah interesting
[23:49] <directhex> 03:00.0 SATA controller: JMicron Technology Corp. JMB363 SATA/IDE Controller (rev 02) (prog-if 01 [AHCI 1.0])
[23:49] <directhex>         Subsystem: Gigabyte Technology Co., Ltd Motherboard
[23:49] <directhex> subsystems are exciting
[23:50] <ChloeWolfieGirl> popey so is Ori ;-; Windows and xbo exclusive so I dont get to play ;-; and MS must have paid to get some windows 8 and wp8 TY the tasmanian tiger exclusives... I miss TY ;-;
[23:50] <directhex> ori is a unity3d game, they could port it to linux in 2 clicks. ms paid for exclusivity
[23:50] <popey> oh, that worked
[23:50] <popey> Gigabyte
[23:50] <daftykins> ChloeWolfieGirl: i bought that \o/
[23:51] <daftykins> very fun so far, but i've not had the time to go back
[23:51] <ChloeWolfieGirl> directhex, Its made by microsoft studios, the same people who made dust, so theres still hope :P
[23:51] <popey> I bought a game off humble bundle, turned out to be Mac (and iOS only).
[23:51] <directhex> not that simple
[23:51] <popey> I tweeted at the developer, my annoyance, and they gave me a code for iOS version of the game, which was nice of them.
[23:52] <directhex> *published* by microsoft game studios. developed by a small indie
[23:52] <directhex> generally, exclusivity involves bribes.
[23:52] <popey> yeah
[23:52] <popey> see also No Mans Sky
[23:52] <popey> :(
[23:52] <popey> So sad that's PS4 exclusive
[23:53] <ChloeWolfieGirl> daftykins I played a bit of it on the XBO, its so pretty and fun
[23:53] <daftykins> +1 to that :)
[23:55] <daftykins> alright time for bed, g'night all \o have a good week
[23:55] <diddledan> nn
[23:55] <ChloeWolfieGirl> nigh Nigh daftykins


[11:23] <slawomir> hello! what is a best way to give an instance a random hostname?
[11:23] <slawomir> now i'm doing something like this:
[11:23] <slawomir> #!/bin/bash
[11:23] <slawomir> HOST=my-random-host-name-${RANDOM}
[11:23] <slawomir> DOMAIN=localdomain
[11:23] <slawomir> hostnamectl set-hostname ${HOST}
[11:23] <slawomir> sed -i "s/^preserve_hostname:.*/preserve_hostname: true" /etc/cloud/cloud.cfg
[11:23] <slawomir> sed -i "s/^<IP_ADDRESS>.*/<IP_ADDRESS>\t${HOST}.${DOMAIN} ${HOST}\n<IP_ADDRESS>\tlocalhost/" /etc/hosts
[11:23] <slawomir> i want to start using #cloud-config configuration
[17:38] <blackboxsw> slawomir (now gone)  should probably be thinking about using jinja template header in cloud-config userdata like the following
[17:38] <blackboxsw> ## template: jinja
[17:38] <blackboxsw> #cloud-config
[17:38] <blackboxsw> {% set HN = 'myhost-' ~ cloud_name ~ '-' ~ region ~ '-' ~ range(1,100) | random %}
[17:38] <blackboxsw> hostname: {{ HN }}
[17:40] <blackboxsw> falcojr: holmanb aciba: 23.4 will be blocked by https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/issues/4630. init-local timeframe before datasource is detected (in DataSourceNone case) we can't write network-config.json to /v/l/c/instance/network-config.json because the datasource is yet to be detected. This affects subiquity/autoinstall. I'm working a fix and should have a PR up within an hour
[17:40] -ubottu:#cloud-init- Issue 4630 in canonical/cloud-init "'failed stage init-local' while testing autoinstall on Noble" [Open]
[17:40] <blackboxsw> I can reproduce this on live-server install images. dbungert heads up as you talked internally about this potential issue.
[17:40] <dbungert> blackboxsw: saw that, thanks!
[17:56] <blackboxsw> repeated msg: slawomir (now gone)  should probably be thinking about using jinja template header in cloud-config userdata like the following
[17:56] <blackboxsw> 10:38 ## template: jinja
[17:56] <blackboxsw> 10:38 #cloud-config
[17:56] <blackboxsw> 10:38 {% set HN = 'myhost-' ~ cloud_name ~ '-' ~ region ~ '-' ~ range(1,100) | random %}
[17:56] <blackboxsw> 10:38 hostname: {{ HN }}
[17:56] <blackboxsw> meh missed it. will table that for random hostname for now
[19:16] <blackboxsw> falcojr: holmanb I'm testing this now https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/4635
[19:16] -ubottu:#cloud-init- Pull 4635 in canonical/cloud-init "bug(schema): do not write network-config when instance dir absent" [Open]


[04:58] <bazhang> the emacs project has folded!
[05:20] <chu> what :o
[05:21] <chu> Nothing on emacs-devel I can see....
[05:21] <Unit193> Just the editor portion, the OS is safe.
[05:22] <chu> Ahahaha
[05:22] <chu> Ouch :'(


[03:27] <lotuspsychje> good morning
[06:25] <lordievader> Good morning
[06:55] <ducasse> good morning
[09:29] <lotuspsychje> hey Guest93
[09:30] <Guest93> hi
[09:30] <lotuspsychje> Guest93: ubuntu runs pretty well on newer hardware, but we usualy see users needing higher kernels too on those
[09:31] <lotuspsychje> Guest93: comparing to other distro's its not easy to generalize, you might wanna do so research on benchmarking sites like phoronix
[09:34] <Guest93> i am in marketing and started to learn to code so i can do data analysis later on
[09:34] <Guest93> is ubuntu good for data analysis?
[09:37] <lotuspsychje> Guest93: what kind of programs will you be using?
[09:40] <Guest93> i was thinking atom
[09:54] <marcoagpinto> Heya!
[09:56] <daftykins> marcoagpinto: hey \o what's new?
[09:56] <marcoagpinto> I had the second dose of the vaccine
[09:56] <marcoagpinto> an hour ao
[09:56] <marcoagpinto> an hour ago
[09:56] <daftykins> ah ha - and you're still standing?
[09:57] <daftykins> bbs coffee needs to be made
[10:03] <marcoagpinto> oki
[10:03] <marcoagpinto> I am not standing, I am sat in front of the computer
[10:05] <lotuspsychje> lol
[10:06] <marcoagpinto> lotuspsychje!!!
[10:07] <daftykins> heh not heard that phrase? :)
[10:09] <marcoagpinto> I have been up since near 5am coding and drinking cola
[10:09] <marcoagpinto> :)
[10:09] <marcoagpinto> I came up with a brilliant idea to optimise code
[10:09] <marcoagpinto> :)
[10:09] <marcoagpinto> I wrote it down on paper
[10:10] <marcoagpinto> never-the-less I tested PureBasic 6.0 alpha 3 with the PhD app and it became around two times faster
[10:10] <marcoagpinto> but it is an alpha, I am not going to use it for production
[10:11] <marcoagpinto> it compiles with "optimise" + "C Backend compiler"
[10:12] <marcoagpinto> Buaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa... GCC doesn't support fast strings... Proofing Tool GUI takes the same time to process data
[10:12] <marcoagpinto> :(
[10:12] <marcoagpinto> is there a GCC channel for me to complain?
[10:17] <daftykins> i'm not sure they deserve that :P
[10:20] <marcoagpinto> daftykins: there should be a setting to store the size of strings before them
[10:21] <marcoagpinto> so that every call to the string doesn't start from 1 until the end
[10:21] <marcoagpinto> it is slow as hell
[10:21] <marcoagpinto> Proofing Tool GUI is a linguistic tool, so it is mostly strings
[10:22] <daftykins> i don't do dev at all so *shrug*
[10:22] <marcoagpinto> :(
[10:31] <jluc> Hello
[10:31] <lotuspsychje> welcome jluc
[10:33] <jluc> not sure this chan is appropriate : i wonder how to calibrate my screen for a quality color workflow using scribus for PDF creation, an xrite color probe and an (industry offset) printer
[10:33] <jluc> ubuntu 20.10 hangs when launching the OS provided calibrate process
[10:34] <jluc> and it looks like there is no DisplayCal version for recent ubuntu
[10:34] <jluc> i'm a bit stuck with ubuntu and that color probe :-/
[10:35] <jluc> and i wonder whether i should send the probe back to shop / or would have more chance with another distro
[10:36] <daftykins> that seems more like a question for the makers of the product to me
[10:46] <jluc> ok....
[14:19] <tomreyn> !20.10 | jluc
[14:20] <jluc> i managed to install displayCal using the seemingly unofficial flatpak
[14:22] <tomreyn> jluc: sorry, i meant to have the bot point out to you that Ubuntu 20.10 is reaching end of (support) life this July 2021
[14:22] <jluc> and you had to do the bot :-D
[14:22] <jluc> yes i will up soooooon i hope
[14:23] <tomreyn> :)
[14:26] <tomreyn> 1 week left https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2021-June/000269.html
[14:28] <jluc> but it's summer !
[14:28] <jluc> beach time !
[14:29] <jluc> treking time !
[14:29] <jluc> lazying in the sun time !!
[14:29] <daftykins> even the planning of any one of those would take more than the upgrade would
[14:30] <jluc> :-)
[14:30] <jluc> oh


[13:09] <zzarr> Hello! Can Unity 8 handle more than 1 screen?
[13:15] <davmor2> zzarr: talk to mzanetti there is a silo for it I believe but currently it turns main screen into giant track pad
[13:16] <mzanetti> zzarr, there's some WIP in silo 2373
[13:17] <zzarr> Okey, nice, will it be ready for 17.04?
[13:17] <davmor2> zzarr: No
[13:17] <zzarr> 17.10?
[13:17] <ltinkl> zzarr, it should be, yes
[13:18] <zzarr> nice
[18:50] <ryanleesipes> Alright folks, I've got some time to update the Wiki
[18:50] <ryanleesipes> Also, I'm hanging in #unity8 on rocket.ubuntu.com
[18:50] <ryanleesipes> Looking at Bitesize Bugs for Unity
[18:51] <ryanleesipes> Is this of any interest to the peanut gallery? What should be here?
[18:51] <ryanleesipes> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/Bitesize