[12:55] <BrianB04> I'm already liking bazaar...it's so simple.
[12:56] <lifeless> cool
[12:56] <lifeless> I like to hear such things
[01:00] <igc> morning all
[01:03] <lifeless> hi
[01:03] <lifeless> jelmer: ping
[01:05] <lifeless> jelmer: your code.launchpad.net/~jelmer/bzr-svn/trunk is borked
[01:37] <jelmer> lifeless: thanks, I'll have a look
[01:39] <abentley> lifeless: the new annotation stuff is in.
[01:55] <lifeless> jelmer: I think you renamed something and didn't tell launchpad
[01:55] <lifeless> jelmer: also you should tell launchpad what branch is used for each release series
[01:57] <poolie> helol
[02:01] <lifeless> hi
[02:02] <igc> hi poolie
[02:31] <igc> poolie: w.r.t. your partial review, did you want the -D options in a separate 'debug-options' topic, in a separate "table" or just all together in the existing table separated by a newline say?
[02:32] <igc> abentley: if you're happy with Nam's tweak to the hook doc in his pre-commit patch, let me know and I'll merge the change today
[02:42] <poolie> igc,just in the same thing separated by a newline
[02:42] <poolie> would be fen
[02:42] <poolie> fine
[02:42] <igc> thanks
[02:42] <lifeless> igc: abentley is not here
[02:42] <igc> ok
[02:52] <poolie> spiv, ping?
[02:58] <spiv> pong
[03:01] <poolie> lifeless, should we be using ppas at all for bazaar packaging?
[03:01] <poolie> spiv, can i call?
[03:02] <spiv> Sure.
[03:04] <lifeless> poolie: no advantage at this point
[04:01] <igc> poolie: just confirming, the indentation of NEWS items was explicitly reduced by 1 char in 2773. Any reason for that?
[04:01] <poolie> igc, because i noticed that the rest rendering had them at different bulletpoint levels
[04:01] <poolie> in different sections of the file
[04:02] <poolie> i think i got it right
[04:02] <igc> np - just impacting merging of course.
[04:02] <poolie> yes http://doc.bazaar-vcs.org/bzr.dev/en/release-notes/NEWS.html#in-development
[04:02] <poolie> it's better but there are still some that are a bit worng
[04:04] <igc> ok - I'll clean it up now as a trivial change. I need to fix some other ReST formatting anyhow in developers/update.txt so I'll do both while I'm at it
[04:06] <poolie> jml, hi?
[04:06] <jml> poolie: hi
[04:09] <lifeless> igc: just sent a commit patch up that you might like to review
[04:10] <igc> lifeless: got the email re memory but no patch thru yet
[04:11] <igc> lifeless: I have 4G on my main benchmarking machine of which 1G is given to a VM btw
[04:12] <igc> lifeless: ok, patch thru now - will review today
[04:14] <lifeless> are you able to benchmark outside the vm ?
[04:15] <igc> I'm doing that - in the other 3G
[04:15] <lifeless> cool
[04:15] <igc> the VM is Windows
[04:15] <lifeless> we still spend 13% in libz
[04:16] <igc> but I'm not surprised that compression is an overall win - thanks to reduced IO
[04:16] <lifeless> oh yes
[04:17] <lifeless> raw pack is 990MB when annotations are used
[04:22] <jdong> tailor config files have just been more painful than swallowing needles for me...
[04:24] <lifeless> why not use bzr-svn ?
[04:24] <lifeless> 'pull' is about as simple as it gets :)
[04:24] <jdong> lifeless: because I only need a -20-revision horizon....
[04:25] <jdong> also, for my KTorrent needs.... bzr-svn would have to mirror the *entire* KDE xD
[04:26] <jdong> but for smaller trees, bzr-svn is bliss
[04:32] <lifeless> jdong: why would it mirror everything ?
[04:33] <jdong> lifeless: because KTorrent is a subdirectory of the entire KDE subversion repository....
[04:33] <jdong> lifeless: at least from what I understand, I would have to branch the entire KDE svn, not just a subdirectory
[04:37] <lifeless> if its structured well bzr-svn can treat them as nested trees
[04:40] <ubotu> New bug: #136890 in bzr "merge --uncommitted ignores specific file" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/136890
[04:41] <jdong> lifeless: hmm I'll have to look more into that then
[05:14] <lifeless> igc: another one up
[05:39] <igc> lifeless: got it - will review now
[06:14] <igc> lifeless: what's our policy w.r.t. changing return values on public methods? Should we use another name like add_lines_get_details() instead of just changing what add_lines returns?
[06:15] <lifeless> igc: we aim for compatability where the tradeoffs are worth it
[06:15] <lifeless> this is very much an internal aspect of implementation, I don't think compatability is worth it
[06:16] <igc> I'm ok with that.
[06:17] <igc> still, might be worth putting it in the API breaks part of NEWS for completeness, yes?
[06:20] <lifeless> I did
[06:20] <lifeless> :)
[06:23] <igc> /wishes he looked at the diff for NEWS in meld and not just bzr cdiff :-)
[06:27] <poolie> spiv, hi?
[06:27] <poolie> igc: "Can we get this change through as an incremental improvement and have
[06:27] <poolie> this discussion separately?" yes, in principle, i'll read the code
[06:27] <igc> cool
[06:34] <lifeless> spiv: pack patch you may be interested in up
[06:34] <poolie> spiv, how's the format doc?
[06:36] <spiv> poolie: Will have it mailed in a few minutes.
[06:39] <igc> lifeless: can you quickly explain the changes to test_weave.py? StoreText and StoreTwo are redundant tests I gather so deleting them is fine, yes?
[06:40] <lifeless> poolie: I'm done for the day; started at 6am. 3 patches up, user time is now 3m5seconds
[06:40] <lifeless> igc: thats right. The other change was to use the new return value api
[06:41] <igc> ok - all approved. I'll mark it in BB as such.
[06:41] <lifeless> thanks
[06:45] <thumper> poolie: ping
[06:55] <igc> lifeless: if you're still there, that change might be breaking sefltest test_bundle. I'll dig a bit deeper
[07:00] <lifeless> igc: it does. I'll fix and submit tomorrow morning
[07:00] <lifeless> ciao
[07:00] <igc> bye
[07:15] <bialix> lifeless: hi
[07:28] <igc> bialix: lifeless has wrapped up for the day after an early start
[07:29] <poolie> spiv, thanks for your thorough review of C patience diff
[07:29] <bialix> poolie: hi
[07:30] <poolie> hi bialix
[07:31] <igc> thanks for the review poolie
[08:33] <davidmccabe> Sorry, this seems like a dumb question, but I couldn't find with google:
[08:33] <davidmccabe> I have two branches here; how do I see the diffs between them?
[08:35] <beuno> davidmccabe, bzr missing would be one way
[08:35] <davidmccabe> never mind, that was too easy :)
[08:36] <davidmccabe> it *looks like* I can just do, bzr diff wc-1 wc-2
[08:36] <beuno> yeap, that would output a diff
[08:36] <beuno> missing tells you the difference on the commit level
[08:37] <davidmccabe> ah, I was looking for a diff.
[08:37] <davidmccabe> to recollect all my changes at the end of a feature branch.
[08:37] <davidmccabe> actually, I am comparing VCSs on speed here.
[08:37] <davidmccabe> My actual VCS for work is SVN. It took fifteen minutes.
[08:37] <davidmccabe> git does it in under a second.
[08:38] <davidmccabe> bzr does just fine at 1.29 seconds.
[08:38] <beuno> ah, right, bzr isn't focused too much on performance at the moment, although a lot of work is being done on it
[08:38] <davidmccabe> It performs great!
[08:38] <davidmccabe> git is written in C with a bit of assembly, and it's only a few times faster for this operation.
[08:38] <davidmccabe> (must be IO-bound?)
[08:39] <beuno> well, it'll be fun to watch when they do focus on performance  :D
[08:43] <poolie> davidmccabe, beuno, we are very focussed on performance in our current work
[08:43] <poolie> we were not so much in the past
[08:43] <poolie> but look at all the performance patches on the list in the last week
[08:52] <beuno> poolie, right, I've seen all the working going on, I just still have in my head the so much repeated phrase "we are not focusing on performance"  :D
[08:53] <beuno> poolie, would that mainly be the "pack" feature?
[08:54] <poolie> pack, commit performance, hpss, inventory changes
[08:54] <poolie> iter merge
[08:55] <beuno> that just got in, so it's not in 0.90, right?   I have a few <1gb branches at the office I would like a performance boost on  :D
[08:56] <poolie> pack will be in 0.92, not the last release or this one
[08:56] <poolie> but if you want to try it from robert's branch that would be enormously useful
[08:56] <vila> hi all
[08:56] <poolie> hi vila
[08:57] <beuno> poolie, sure, I could run some tests if that would help, they mainly contain a lot of binaries (PSDs, PNGs and all that)
[08:57] <vila> poolie: sorry for the delay in coming back, huge backlog :-/
[08:58] <poolie> vila, np
[09:00] <vila> poolie: not sure I get all the details right, but it looks like I will be most helpful to bzr by: 1) looking at the FTP password bug, 2) multiple connections for update, 3) auth-ring spec, 4) recursive hash on directories
[09:00] <vila> in that order of priority
[09:00] <vila> any comment ?
[09:01] <poolie> that sounds great
[09:01] <poolie> i'm working on 45
[09:01] <poolie> 4
[09:02] <vila> poolie: I re-read your directory-fingerprints.txt yesterday, nice work, I'd try to comment on it asap
[09:07] <poolie> is Lukas here?
[09:08] <vila> poolie: do you except your work to land in 0.91 or later ?
[09:08] <poolie> later, it's based on packs and they will likely be in the next release
[09:09] <vila> ok
[09:31] <ubotu> New bug: #136942 in bzr "What's in the trash" [Wishlist,Triaged]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/136942
[09:41] <poolie> vila, interesting suggestion
[09:41] <fullermd> I claim royalty rights on the name when somebody writes "bzrchaeology".
[09:42] <vila> poolie: Just had the need for it :)
[09:43] <vila> fullermd: I will argue that I use the name archeology for years ! Whether for VCS purposes or just trying to understand code :)
[09:43] <fullermd> Yes, but you didn't pun it with 'bee zee arr'.
[09:44] <vila> fullermd: and don't start me about explaining young developers that, no, people are not stupid, even if their code looks so. Once, with the help of archeology, you understand why they wrote it this way *at the time* their code was not stupid, nor them :)
[09:44] <fullermd> Oh, you're whistling in the dark, there.    I'm a genius.      I don't have to look at code.    Never!  We'll joust for the title!
[10:11] <poolie> spiv, can i read about the protocol yet?
[10:11] <spiv> poolie: Yeah, I sent a merge/rfc about it.
[10:11] <poolie> oh great, thanks
[10:12] <poolie> spiv, can you look at<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[10:13] <poolie> actually, i see a bug, but if you can say if the basic intent is right that'd be good
[10:13] <spiv> Yeah, that's high on my mental todo list.  Like Robert I'll need to page in a little bit too, but not as much as Robert...
[10:17] <poolie> ok, don't worry til your stuff is up
[10:17] <poolie> i can read it
[11:00] <ubotu> New bug: #136952 in bzr "Bzr doesn't merge the most recent revision" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/136952
[11:31] <poolie> spiv, is<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[11:31] <poolie> the most current fix for that bug?
[11:31] <poolie> for trunk
[11:31] <spiv> poolie: yes
[11:31] <poolie> thanks
[11:31] <poolie> igc, thanks for all the reviews
[11:32] <igc> np
[12:27] <BrianB04> Morning all.
[12:33] <gabe_> morning BrianB04
[12:33] <grimboy> Morning, Bri. Doing a checkout or branch of a branch I've just pushed I get the error bzr: ERROR: No such file: 'http://code.discussium.org/discussium/.bzr/repository/knits/8f/models.py.old-20070902211246-zblkha1c6hz8yag7-30.kndx'. The file is available where I pushed from put not where I pushed to. I've tried using both sftp and bzr+ssh but both do the same thing. Any idea what I'm doing wrong?
[12:34] <grimboy> s/put/but/
[12:46] <Kamping_Kaiser> is bzr <current releases> still compatible with the 0.8.2 in Ubuntu 6.06?
[12:47] <gabe_> seems fine for me
[12:47] <gabe_> i'm on dapper
[12:47] <Kamping_Kaiser> i was just making sure there hasnt been any storage format breaks
[12:47] <dato> Kamping_Kaiser: how do you mean, "compatible". whether branches created with current versions can be read by 0.8?
[12:48] <Kamping_Kaiser> dato, and vica versa
[12:48] <Kamping_Kaiser> as will be the case
[12:48] <dato> vice versa, yes, always.
[12:48] <dato> branches created by the default format up to 0.90 can be read by 0.8 as well.
[12:49] <dato> however 0.15 and onwards have a newer format that is incompatible with 0.8, but it has to be enabled by hand.
[12:49] <dato> finally, 0.91 will make that new format the default.
[12:50] <dato> (but you can still create branches in the old format with 0.91 and upwards; you just need to pass the appropriate flag to bzr init)
[12:50] <Kamping_Kaiser> would the version of bzr in debian 4.0 or ubuntu 7.04 be compatible? i'm asuming so
[12:51] <dato> the very same comments apply.
[12:51] <Kamping_Kaiser> sweet
[12:51] <Kamping_Kaiser> *goes to find out versions in said distro releases*
[12:51] <dato> debian 4.0 has 0.11
[12:51] <BrianB04> I'm back, sorry about that, quick shower. Ya know, I offically love Bazaar...it's so simple once you get an idea of how things work.
[12:52] <dato> Kamping_Kaiser: in any case, there are backports for both debian (in backports.org) and for ubuntu (in bazaar-vcs.org/releases/debs)
[12:52] <dato> Kamping_Kaiser: in case you're interested
[12:52] <Kamping_Kaiser> 0.15 in feisty
[12:52] <Kamping_Kaiser> dato, i'll bear it in mind, thanks
[12:53] <BrianB04> Otherwise Kamping_Kaiser: Why not just grab the source from the bazaar site?
[12:53] <Kamping_Kaiser> i just init'd a project before i came and asked here
[12:53] <Kamping_Kaiser> BrianB04, what, build it myself?
[12:54] <BrianB04> Kamping_Kaiser: Yea, not that difficult. And, you can do a quick google search for something like 'build bzr in x distro' and usually will find (Especially for debian/ubuntu) howtos of exactly what you need to apt-get to make it build properly.
[12:54] <dato> BrianB04: well, why build yourself if both distros provide updated backports??
[12:54] <Kamping_Kaiser> BrianB04, i prefer not to build (esp. if thers backporst)
[12:56] <BrianB04> dato: Unfortunetly, they are not always updated, that's the big problem. You know what I always found a little weird, when I was first looking into bazaar, that Ubuntu does not keep the most up to date in repos...and they are 'owned' by Canonical who does Bazaar.
[12:56] <dato> BrianB04: what "repos"?
[12:57] <BrianB04> In one of the main not like Backports, ya know?
[12:57] <dato> BrianB04: latest versions have always been in bazaar-vcs.org/releases/debs, ttbomk
[12:58] <dato> you'd have to ask some ubuntu person why they are in bazaar-vcs.org instead of feisty-backports, eg.
[12:58] <BrianB04> Ah, I haven't been in Ubuntu in awhile...stupid computer now doesn't like Ubuntu, in the least.
[12:58] <Kamping_Kaiser> the -backports repos are pulled from a later release, by someone in the backports team with motivation
[12:58] <Kamping_Kaiser> i asume the bzr-cvs ones are done as a mater of course
[01:00] <BrianB04> But, I'm happy that finally launchpad mirrored my bazaar repo after the race condition yesterday. Hey, I have a trivia question regarding bazaar/drcs if someone knows, when did the whole DRCS thing start? Back when Bitkeeper came in to being to 'help' out the kernel team, or did DRCS start before then?
[02:22] <grimboy_uk> When doing a checkout or branch of a branch I've just pushed I get the error bzr: ERROR: No such file: '*blah*/.bzr/repository/knits/8f/models.py.old-20070902211246-zblkha1c6hz8yag7-30.kndx'. The file is available where I pushed from but not where I pushed to. I've tried using both sftp and bzr+ssh but both do the same thing. Any ideas what I'm doing wrong?
[02:32] <markvandenborre> I'm setting up a central bzr repository for two people
[02:32] <markvandenborre> how do I avoid having to fiddle with that repo as root?
[02:33] <markvandenborre> we are two people, each with our own ssh account on this machine
[02:33] <gabe_> markvandenborre: ensure both people are the members of a same group
[02:34] <markvandenborre> gabe_, yes, of course,...
[02:34] <gabe_> and that group has write permissions on the repository
[02:34] <markvandenborre> but then you still need to set the default group for newly created files
[02:34] <markvandenborre> with umask-ish stuff
[02:34] <markvandenborre> I don't see if that is possible on a directory basis
[02:35] <markvandenborre> or rather: how that is possible
[02:35] <dato> ensure that the directory is mode g+s and g+w
[02:35] <dato> (numeric mode 2775)
[02:35] <dato> bzr *should* take care of the rest, or so I hear
[02:36] <gabe_> works for me with the users being in the same group
[02:47] <AfC> 02755 and umask 0002 worked for us
[02:50] <lifeless> grimboy_uk: are you using http to pull from ?
[02:59] <BrianB04> Hey, are bzr branches cheap?
[03:03] <AfC> Short answer: yes
[03:30] <matkor> BrianB04: Even cheaper if you have them in one repo
[03:31] <AfC> Of course, more to the point, they're real branches :)
[03:37] <BrianB04> God, I hate going outside of stories when developing in rails, but...blech I have to for this.
[03:42] <markvandenborre> dato, bzr commit -m "Test met gebruiker Onno"
[03:42] <markvandenborre> Password:
[03:42] <markvandenborre> bzr: ERROR: Permission denied: u'/srv/bzr/.bzr/repository/lock/pending.62hc7mnjpa6jcyrq91v1.tmp': [Errno 13]  Permission denied
[03:44] <markvandenborre> I'm still locked to this one user "mark"
[03:45] <markvandenborre> I know I could chgrp -R admin ./ in /srv/bzr
[03:45] <markvandenborre> (both users are in the admin group-
[03:45] <markvandenborre> )
[03:45] <markvandenborre> but that would not be the cleanest way to do it, would it
[03:46] <markvandenborre> what is the cleanest way when it comes to permissions
[03:47] <dato> markvandenborre: find /srv/bzr -type d -print0 | xargs -r0 chmod 2755
[03:47] <dato> markvandenborre: find /srv/bzr -not -type d -print0 | xargs -r0 chmod 664
[03:47] <dato> do that and try
[03:49] <markvandenborre> you make me change all directory rights g+ws, and all file rights ug=rw,o=r
[03:50] <dato> aha
[03:50] <markvandenborre> would that be the cleanest way?
[03:50] <markvandenborre> I wonder if this is such an uncommon setup
[03:50] <markvandenborre> that I have to fiddle with it like this...
[03:51] <markvandenborre> (btw, thx for your help, dato!)
[03:51] <dato> well, maybe the permissions were bad, to this should be a one time thing
[03:58] <markvandenborre> dato, the problem is that mark.mark is still the user/group rights on many files, so onno can't touch them
[03:59] <markvandenborre> (after setting up the repo with g+ws as you first suggested)
[03:59] <dato> ah, then if you don't have root there, you will need mark to fix
[03:59] <markvandenborre> I have root here
[03:59] <markvandenborre> but I was wondering how to fix this in a sustainable way
[03:59] <markvandenborre> so that mark and onno can work together without touching anything at the shell level once it is set up well
[04:00] <markvandenborre> presuming they stay within an existing repository, that is
[04:01] <dato> as I understand it, the starting point is (1) all files and directories g+w; (2) all directories g+s; (3) all files and directories group "admin"
[04:01] <dato> AfC mentioned something about the umask, but I've hear jam say bzr preserves the g+w bit, so it should not be needed
[04:02] <markvandenborre> ok
[04:02] <markvandenborre> how documented is this?
[04:03] <dato> I don't know.
[04:04] <AfC> (group whatever-you-want-it-to-be)
[04:08] <grimboy_uk> lifeless, Yes.
[04:11] <grimboy_uk> But I've looked at it on the server through the file system and the file that's on my computer that it's complaining about not having (*blah*/.bzr/repository/knits/8f/models.py.old-20070902211246-zblkha1c6hz8yag7-30.kndx) isn't there.
[04:28] <markvandenborre> I have this bzr with central workflow running now, as described at http://doc.bazaar-vcs.org/latest/en/user-guide/centralized_workflow.html
[04:28] <markvandenborre> thx, step 1 is complete
[04:52] <BleSS> niemeyer: hi! I contacted with you ago 2 weeks about issues on python-mcrypt and python-mhash, and I sent you an email but withou answer
[04:54] <BleSS> and you said me that you were to looking/working about them on past week, I would to know if you aren't maintain those projects netiher upload to PyPi
[04:54] <BleSS> because I started to built a python wrapper over your programs for nothing
[05:06] <niemeyer> BleSS: First, this isn't the right channel to talk about it..
[05:06] <niemeyer> BleSS: Second, I said I wouldn't be able to look at these projects before the sprint was over.. it didn't mean I would look at them immediately after the sprint was over
[05:07] <BleSS> niemeyer: yes, it's true, sorry, but as I was not answered by email after of 3 emails ...
[05:07] <niemeyer> BleSS: I have dozens of things to look at, literally, and these projects aren't at the top of my list.
[05:07] <BleSS> niemeyer: excuse me but you said me that you were to looking them on the last week
[05:07] <niemeyer> BleSS: I appreciate your effort on them, and don't want you to feel frustrated because I'm not giving you attention
[05:08] <BleSS> niemeyer: then, for the next time you must say the truth and answer the emails
[05:11] <markvandenborre> a strange beginner question:
[05:11] <markvandenborre> I want to use bzr for web development
[05:12] <radix> generally one uses it to manage revisions ;-)
[05:12] <niemeyer> ...
[05:12] <niemeyer> Aug 21 11:02:02 <niemeyer>      So I apologize for the lack of response
[05:12] <niemeyer> Aug 21 11:02:08 <BleSS> no problem
[05:12] <niemeyer> Aug 21 11:02:19 <niemeyer>      Ok.. I'll try to look at these issues next week
[05:12] <niemeyer> Aug 21 11:02:23 <BleSS> if you're busy i don't disturb
[05:12] <niemeyer> Harsh.. harsh..
[05:13] <radix> !?
[05:13] <markvandenborre> radix, for managing revisions of web development files of course
[05:13] <niemeyer> radix: Discussion above..
[05:14] <radix> wow
[05:14] <radix> markvandenborre: oh, ok :-)
[05:14] <markvandenborre> but how do I get the clean source tree
[05:14] <markvandenborre> without any .bzr stuff
[05:15] <markvandenborre> so that I can use a checkout directly in my web tree?
[05:15] <markvandenborre> I'm probably not expressing myself too correctly here
[05:15] <mwhudson> well, 'bzr export' will do that
[05:16] <mwhudson> but i'm not sure that's what you actually want
[05:16] <markvandenborre> ah, thx
[05:16] <markvandenborre> mwhudson, now I can at least look things up
[05:16] <abentley> export is a one-time operation, so you won't be able to use "pull" or "update" in that directory.
[05:17] <abentley> But "pull" and "update" require a .bzr directory, even if it doesn't have a lot in it.
[05:18] <abentley> I'm not sure why you want to avoid ".bzr".
[05:24] <gabe_> ls
[05:45] <BrianB04> I don't think that a webserver could even see a .bzr directory.
[05:46] <markvandenborre> abentley, I wonder if this has any security implications
[05:47] <abentley> BrianB04: They typically don't show it on directory listings, but yes, you can access a .bzr over http.  If not, most public branches wouldn't work.
[05:48] <BrianB04> abentley: Yes, that's true but how many people are just going to try that?
[05:48] <abentley> markvandenborre: Well, you can always make .bzr/* a forbidden URL in your server config.  But you certainly don't need to store all the version history there, anyhow.  You can make a lightweight checkout instead.
[05:59] <markvandenborre> abentley, ahh... another good thing you bring up
[05:59] <markvandenborre> a lightweight checkout
[06:03] <markvandenborre> what is the fastest operation: lightweight checkout, or export?
[06:05] <markvandenborre> think of a web site in development that needs to be updated quite frequently from a bzr repository
[06:05] <markvandenborre> maybe there is a better/faster way?
[06:09] <markvandenborre> ... any good doc pointers pertaining to this also welcome
[06:09] <markvandenborre> !
[06:15] <ubotu> New bug: #137044 in bzr "Saved FTP passwords not used, password not prompted" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/137044
[06:15] <ubotu> New bug: #137045 in bzr "bzr push hangs some minutes if server data quote is exceeded" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/137045
[06:22] <markvandenborre> a bzr update from a remote sftp server (pubkey auth) where nothing has changed consistently takes about nine seconds
[06:22] <markvandenborre> is that normal?
[06:22] <markvandenborre> this is on bzr 0.15-0ubuntu2
[06:25] <AfC> markvandenborre: Step 1: upgrade to the current release, 0.90
[06:26] <AfC> markvandenborre: you are using code that is more than 4 releases old.
[06:26] <markvandenborre> AfC, or from another perspective, I'm using the latest ubuntu on a production server...
[06:26] <AfC> markvandenborre: well. then that's an Ubuntu bug, then.
[06:27] <markvandenborre> maybe there is something more recent in a backports repo somewhere
[06:27] <radix> markvandenborre: yes, the latest bzr packages for ubuntu are made available
[06:27] <markvandenborre> oh, nice
[06:27] <radix> you'll find info in the download section of bazaar-vcs.org
[06:28] <markvandenborre> thx!
[06:28] <markvandenborre> radix, brilliant!
[06:29] <sits> I seem to be getting KeyError errors trying to do
[06:29] <sits> bzr branch 'https://code.launchpad.net/~asac/intellinuxwireless/ipw3945.asac'
[06:29] <sits> on Gutsy. Any ideas?
[06:36] <markvandenborre> AfC, regarding performance
[06:36] <markvandenborre> I have just upgraded to the latest .90 release (thx again for the suggestion!)
[06:37] <markvandenborre> averages for a bzr update from a central repo with one very short text file and three revisions is just below 6 seconds on average now
[06:37] <markvandenborre> is there anything else I should check regarding performance?
[06:38] <markvandenborre> oh, I still need to bzr upgrade, apparently
[06:39] <markvandenborre> any other suggestions
[06:39] <markvandenborre> ?
[06:43] <abentley> markvandenborre: I expect that updating a checkout is faster than updating an export, because updating a checkout will only affect modified files.  But updating an export requires outputting all files each time.
[06:44] <markvandenborre> abentley, this is a checkout already, but thanks for the suggestion
[06:45] <abentley> You asked for a comparison earlier.  I was responding to that.
[06:45] <markvandenborre> ah, thx!
[06:46] <abentley> sits: Please pastebin your traceback.
[06:46] <abentley> ubtotu: paste
[06:46] <abentley> ubotu: paste
[06:46] <ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
[06:50] <abentley> markvandenborre: The repository is remote?
[06:57] <sits> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/36208/
[07:15] <markvandenborre> abentley, yes, the repo is remote
[07:16] <markvandenborre> oh... too late
[07:52] <yml> hello
[07:52] <yml> I am still trying to get my complete workflow of development flowing with launchpad.
[07:53] <yml> I beleive I reach one of the final step of the loop. I am trying to push my branch from a remote host to launchpad.net.I am getting this error message:yml@ssh1:~/workspace$ bzr push<EMAIL_ADDRESS>not create directory '/home/yml/.ssh'.Permission denied (publickey).bzr: ERROR: Unable to connect to SSH host bazaar.launchpad.net;
[07:53] <yml> Does this make sense to someone?
[08:01] <luks> "sftp<EMAIL_ADDRESS>works for you?
[08:01] <luks> I think it's something wrong without your local ssh key setup
[08:01] <markvandenborre> yml, I'm not a bzr expert, but you should probably get your pubkey auth fixed first
[08:03] <markvandenborre> make sure .to add the contents of your local ~/.ssh/id_dsa.pub to the remote ssh/authorized_keys2
[08:03] <yml> lucks you want me to type this: sftp<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[08:03] <markvandenborre> make sure to have pubkey auth switched on in the remote sshd configuration
[08:03] <luks> yml: yes
[08:03] <luks> I think you don't have your private ssh key installed correctly
[08:05] <yml> luks : all the problems come from that my key are not in /home/yml/.ssh but in /home/yml/www/.ssh
[08:06] <yml> luks : same kind of error:
[08:06] <yml> yml@ssh1:~/workspace$ sftp<EMAIL_ADDRESS>to bazaar.launchpad.net...Could not create directory '/home/yml/.ssh'.Permission denied (publickey).Couldn't read packet: Connection reset by peer
[08:07] <markvandenborre> what would be the best way to backup a central bazaar repository?
[08:07] <yml> when I do a ssh-add -l I can see my key
[08:08] <james_w> markvandenborre: with multiple branches?
[08:08] <luks> yml: it probably needs to write to known_hosts in ~/.ssh
[08:08] <yml> luks: :)
[08:08] <james_w> yml: ssh -v can be helpful sometimes.
[08:08] <luks> hm?
[08:09] <markvandenborre> james_w, I'm really a beginner when it comes to bzr, but...
[08:09] <markvandenborre> we're two users working on one central repository from different computers
[08:09] <yml> This took me a day to set up ssh to write known_hosts in the correct directory
[08:09] <markvandenborre> with several branches in this same repository
[08:10] <markvandenborre> one for each web project
[08:10] <yml> http://forum.alwaysdata.com/viewtopic.php?id=93
[08:10] <markvandenborre> at least, that's the layout that was suggested to me as the most logical one
[08:10] <james_w> markvandenborre: ok, so for backup, either use bzr and pull each branch in turn, to a repo on another machine. Or just rsync the whole repo over or similar.
[08:12] <yml> luks: here it is the output of sftp -v => http://dpaste.com/18500/
[08:12] <markvandenborre> james_w, which one would be most bandwidth efficient?
[08:12] <luks> well, it obviously doesn't try to use ~/www/.ssh
[08:12] <markvandenborre> not that it's such a big problem right now, but I want things to be scalable
[08:13] <luks> but I really don't know how to fix that
[08:14] <james_w> markvandenborre: rsync, unless you have masses of unreferenced revisions in the repository (you often uncommit revsions that are stored there or similar).
[08:14] <yml> luks  : thank you, I am like you but me I searching the solution for the last 2 days
[08:14] <yml> :[
[08:14] <markvandenborre> james_w, thx!
[08:14] <luks> why not just use ~/.ssh?
[08:14] <james_w> if the latter then you are probably better off just cleaning up and using rsync anyway.
[08:15] <yml> luks : because I do not have access to it
[08:16] <yml> for some reason my internet provider give me access in read only to that folder
[08:16] <Peng> ~/www? As in people can download the contents of .ssh on the web? That isn't exactly good.
[08:17] <yml> and read write in /www
[08:17] <markvandenborre> Peng, if it's like that, it's even _awfully_ bad, insecure, irresponsible
[08:17] <markvandenborre> yml, but surely it's not like that, is it?
[08:18] <BrianB04> How do you merge a branch in with full log file included?
[08:18] <Peng> BrianB04: bzr merge $branch?
[08:18] <yml> Peng: It not that bad because I can configure folders in ~/www that are accessible
[08:18] <BrianB04> Peng: Didn't pull in the full log
[08:18] <luks> yml: you can probably change the location using IdentityFile in your ssh configuration
[08:19] <Peng> BrianB04: Yes it did.
[08:19] <BrianB04> Peng: Didn't show in bzr log...or...do I have to commit...nevermind.
[08:19] <Peng> Oh.
[08:19] <yml> luks : what is this IdentityFile?
[08:20] <luks> man ssh_config :)
[08:20] <luks> but I have no idea where to put the file, because I have it in ~/.ssh/config
[08:20] <yml> thank you nicely said  lol
[08:21] <luks> you will probably need to use command line options
[08:21] <luks> and convince bzr to use the ssh with your options
[08:21] <yml> luks: it look like an endless loop => chiken, egg
[08:22] <luks> ssh -i /home/yml/.ssh/id_dsa
[08:22] <luks> it seems to use BZR_SSH environment variable
[08:23] <yml> luks you mean ssh -i /home/yml/www/.ssh/id_dsa
[08:23] <luks> right
[08:23] <luks> so `BZR_SSH="ssh -i /home/yml/www/.ssh/id_dsa" bzr push ...` might work
[08:24] <yml> BZR_SSH is an environment variable that I have to set before your bzr
[08:26] <luks> actually, not BZR_SSH seems to do something different
[08:31] <yml> luks  : yes I believe it is use to specify ssh engine
[08:32] <luks> yep, but I'm obviously bored, so here you have a simple plugin - http://rafb.net/p/5qLlgx54.html :)
[08:32] <yml> beuno save me after 13 hours of unsuccesfull search
[08:32] <luks> put this to ~/.bazaar/plugins/ymlssh.py
[08:32] <luks> and then `BZR_SSH=yml-openssh bzr push ...`
[08:33] <luks> oh, wait, do you have access to ~/.bazaar?
[08:34] <luks> if not, you need to point BZR_PLUGIN_PATH to the plugin part
[08:34] <luks> *path
[08:34] <yml> luks   : what is that?
[08:34] <luks> what is what?
[08:34] <luks> the plugin?
[08:34] <yml> I start to understand
[08:34] <luks> it will call ssh with the arguments needed to load private key from where you have it
[08:35] <yml> You have created a plug in
[08:46] <yml> luks: I have copied your plugin in a file called ymlssh.py. This file is now in /home/yml/www/.bazaar/plugins.
[08:46] <luks> do you see it in `bzr plugins`?
[08:47] <yml> I have set BZR_SSH=yml-openssh
[08:48] <yml> luks: yes I can see it
[08:48] <yml> yml@ssh1:~/workspace$ bzr plugins/usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/bzrlib/plugins/launchpad        Launchpad.net integration plugin for Bazaar/home/yml/www/.bazaar/plugins/ymlssh.pyc/usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/bzrlib/plugins/bzrtools        Various useful plugins for working with bzr.
[08:49] <yml> luks: it does not work
[08:49] <luks> what's the error?
[08:49] <yml> I have exactly the same result yml@ssh1:~/workspace$ bzr push<EMAIL_ADDRESS>not create directory '/home/yml/.ssh'.Permission denied (publickey).bzr: ERROR: Unable to connect to SSH host bazaar.launchpad.net;
[08:50] <luks> and do you really have the private key in ~/www/.ssh/id_dsa?
[08:51] <yml> I have a key called id_rsa
[08:52] <luks> then you need to change it in the plugin
[08:52] <luks> and then, I hope, it should work
[08:53] <yml> stupid me I have just change your plugin
[08:53] <yml> and
[08:54] <yml> it does not work  :(
[08:55] <yml> same error message:
[08:55] <yml> yml@ssh1:~/workspace$ bzr push<EMAIL_ADDRESS>not create directory '/home/yml/.ssh'.Permission denied (publickey).bzr: ERROR: Unable to connect to SSH host bazaar.launchpad.net;
[08:57] <luks> what about `sftp -oIdentityFile=~/www/.ssh/id_rsa<EMAIL_ADDRESS>?
[08:58] <yml> same kind of pb:
[08:58] <yml> yml@ssh1:~/workspace$ sftp -oIdentityFile=~/www/.ssh/id_rsa<EMAIL_ADDRESS>to bazaar.launchpad.net...Could not create directory '/home/yml/.ssh'.Permission denied (publickey).Couldn't read packet: Connection reset by peer
[08:59] <luks> well, it looks like the private key is not the right one
[08:59] <yml> even with the complete path : yml@ssh1:~/workspace$ sftp -oIdentityFile=/home/yml/www/.ssh/id_rsa<EMAIL_ADDRESS>to bazaar.launchpad.net...Could not create directory '/home/yml/.ssh'.Permission denied (publickey).Couldn't read packet: Connection reset by peer
[08:59] <yml> ssh try to write in /home/yml/.ssh
[09:00] <luks> that shouldn't be a problem
[09:00] <yml> in addition:
[09:00] <yml> yml@ssh1:~/workspace$ echo ~/home/yml/www
[09:00] <luks> hm?
[09:01] <yml> yes it is a pb because I do not have write access to /home/yml
[09:01] <luks> not even to /home/yml/www?
[09:01] <luks> try this: sftp -oUserKnownHostsFile=~/www/.ssh/known_hosts -oIdentityFile=~/www/.ssh/id_rsa<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[09:01] <yml> yes I have write access to /home/yml/www
[09:02] <yml> luks in your path I don't need the www
[09:02] <yml> because ~ = /home/yml/www
[09:03] <yml> Am I understanding it correctly?
[09:03] <luks> well, try it with absolute paths
[09:03] <luks> but I don't think your home is /home/yml/www if ssh tries to write to /home/yml/.ssh
[09:05] <yml> could you believe this:
[09:05] <yml> yml@ssh1:~/workspace$ sftp -oUserKnownHostsFile=/home/yml/www/.ssh/known_hosts -oIdentityFile=/home/yml/www/.ssh/id_rsa<EMAIL_ADDRESS>to bazaar.launchpad.net...Could not create directory '/home/yml/.ssh'.Permission denied (publickey).Couldn't read packet: Connection reset by peer
[09:05] <yml> ssh you are DUMB STUPID!!!!!
[09:05] <yml> lol
[09:06] <luks> try with -v and pastebin the log
[09:06] <yml> ok I will do
[09:07] <yml> http://dpaste.com/18504/
[09:07] <yml> luks here it is
[09:08] <luks> well, I don't think the private key in www/.ssh/id_rsa and the one on launchpad match
[09:10] <yml> I can regenerate a key with ssh-keygen and upload the public key to launchpad
[09:10] <yml> would that help?
[09:10] <luks> no idea :/
[09:11] <luks> probably yes, but you need to find somebody who actually knows how ssh works
[09:11] <luks> I'm just guessing
[09:11] <yml> do you thing that I will have more chance on #launchpad
[09:12] <luks> most likely yes
[09:12] <yml> Because it does not seem to be a bzr bug
[09:12] <yml> luks thank you very much for your great help
[09:13] <yml> and also for my first plugins
[09:13] <yml> :-)
[09:13] <luks> no problem :)
[09:13] <yml> This is something that I would realy like to do write a bzr plugin to do some cherypick before my commit
[09:14] <yml> bzr seems to be very open
[09:14] <luks> cherrypick as in `bzr merge -r X..Y`?
[09:15] <yml> nope cherrypick as in a commit select to take the modification you have done on file A,B and not the one of the file D,F
[09:15] <yml> like darcs is doing
[09:15] <luks> ah
[09:16] <luks> I think there already is something like that
[09:16] <Peng> "bzr commit a b"
[09:16] <luks> there is shelve, which does the reverse
[09:16] <yml> what do you mean the reverse?
[09:16] <luks> it lets you to take selected changes aside
[09:16] <yml> in fact I am missing some interactivity
[09:17] <luks> http://projects.collabora.co.uk/~asabil/bzr/bzr_record/
[09:17] <yml> like a bzr commit -i
[09:17] <luks> I think it's based on the shelve plugin
[09:18] <yml> will ask me file by file if I want to commit the modification done on this file in the current changeset.
[09:18] <luks> change by change
[09:19] <asabil> yml, luks: it doesn't commit right now
[09:19] <luks> oh
[09:19] <asabil> it will create a patch for you in the patches/ subfolder
[09:19] <luks> I just noticed it on the plugins page some time ago
[09:19] <luks> so I assumed it works like darcs record
[09:20] <yml> luks the link is dead, empty folder
[09:20] <luks> you better get used to empty folders with bzr :)
[09:20] <yml> lol
[09:20] <asabil> yml: bzr get http://projects.collabora.co.uk/~asabil/bzr/bzr_record/
[09:20] <asabil> luks: I maybe should rename it
[09:21] <asabil> but it works exactly like bzr record
[09:21] <asabil> it just doesn't commit
[09:22] <yml> asabil the folder is empty
[09:22] <luks> it isn't, there is a .bzr folder inside it
[09:23] <yml> ???
[09:23] <luks> http://projects.collabora.co.uk/~asabil/bzr/bzr_record/.bzr/
[09:23] <luks> simply run: bzr branch http://projects.collabora.co.uk/~asabil/bzr/bzr_record/
[09:24] <yml> bzr branch http://projects.collabora.co.uk/~asabil/bzr/bzr_record/
[09:24] <yml> does that work?
[09:24] <yml> ok
[09:25] <yml> This is why I have considered most of the plugins as dead
[09:25] <yml> stupid me again
[09:46] <vaidhy> I am trying to set up bzr with webdav and I could not push my changes using webdav.. Does webdav support pushing the changes or am I struck with ssh?
[09:48] <lifeless> grimeboy: that strange
[09:48] <lifeless> grimeboy: I would run bzr check locally
[09:48] <lifeless> on the server
[09:49] <vaidhy> vila you around?
[09:58] <grimeboy> Oh wait, it's a server problem.
[09:59] <grimeboy> Now to find the character it doesn't like in "models.py.old-20070902211246-zblkha1c6hz8yag7-30.kn"
[10:00] <grimeboy> Multiple dots?
[10:00] <grimeboy> No wait, most have at least two.
[10:10] <vaidhy> Anyone successfully pushed data using webdav here?
[10:14] <lifeless> grimeboy: '.py' probably
[10:15] <Peng> Ohh, right.
[10:16] <Peng> Apache likes executing anything with ".py" anywhere in the name. :)
[10:18] <grimeboy> Ah, but other files with .py seem to be alright. Oh well, time to fiddle about with .htaccess
[10:20] <fullermd> It seems semi-random.  I've seen it with .php's.
[10:20] <fullermd> I just slammed .kndx/.knit to MIME-type a/o-s in my configs to force it to leave 'em alone.
[10:21] <grimeboy> Ah har
[10:22] <Peng> Oh, that's a good idea.
[10:23] <Peng> I guess that's a benefit of Mercurial always using a smart server: that Apache doesn't get a chance to screw around like that.
[10:23] <lifeless> packs don't have this problem
[10:40] <Peng> Oops, bzr doesn't like it when I edit .bzr/branch/location and leave a trailing newline.
[10:59] <ryanakca> Hmm. On some branches, (ssh+bzr/sftp methinks), when I commit, it get's uploaded to a remote branch, without 'push'... is there a way to tell if my local checkout is that type or not?
[10:59] <lifeless> info
[10:59] <lifeless> and its whether its a checkout or not
[10:59] <ryanakca> ok... so, 'Checkout (format: dirstate)
[11:00] <ryanakca> ' means it's local? (along with '       checkout root: file:///home/ryan/deb/debian/
[11:00] <ryanakca> ') ?
[11:00] <lifeless> local has nothing to do with it ;)
[11:00] <lifeless> its a checkout
[11:00] <lifeless> so when you commit it will go to the master branch
[11:01] <ryanakca> shucks... is there a way to make a 'local' commit, just so I can check, before 'pushing'?
[11:01] <lifeless> yes you can turn it into a regular branch or you can commit offline
[11:01] <lifeless> to do the former run unbind
[11:01] <lifeless> to commit offline do 'commit --offline'
[11:02] <lifeless> uhhh
[11:02] <lifeless> don't see how merge is related
[11:02] <ryanakca> completely seperate
[11:03] <lifeless> if you haven't committed, then merging will conflate your changes and the changes you are merging
[11:03] <lifeless> so you should commit your work then merge then commit the merge.
[11:04] <ryanakca> Ok, thanks
[11:05] <ryanakca> lifeless: bzr: ERROR: unknown command "--offline"
[11:06] <lifeless> ryanakca: you forgot the word commit
[11:06] <ryanakca>  bzr commit --offline -m "LP: #106718, #136560, dropping libgtk and 9902_nspluginviewer patch"         ?
[11:06] <lifeless> why do you need to commit to test things?
[11:06] <Lo-lan-do> Hi all
[11:06] <Lo-lan-do> Still having problems with bzr-svn :-(
[11:07] <lifeless> ryanakca: you might find --fixes lp:106718 --fixes lp:136560 are useful to add to that
[11:07] <Lo-lan-do> http://paste.debian.net/36162
[11:07] <ryanakca> lifeless: ah, thanks :)
[11:07] <Lo-lan-do> jelmer: ^^^ if you have a few moments
[11:07] <ryanakca> I don't need to commit to test
[11:07] <lifeless> ryanakca: you should not need to commit to test your work though so something isn't adding up for me
[11:08] <ryanakca> ^^
[11:08] <jelmer> Lo-lan-do: the quick fix is to make _is_http_transport() in transport.py return False
[11:09] <jelmer> I'm working on a real fix
[11:09] <lifeless> ryanakca: so why do you need to do offline commits? They are a useful feature but isn't it simpler for you to just commit normally ?
[11:10] <ryanakca> lifeless: would commiting not cause some merge things in the files?
[11:10] <ryanakca> oh well, I'll just commit normally and then merge normally. I guess I don't have anything to worry about :)
[11:11] <lifeless> 'merge things' ? I don't know what you mean
[11:11] <lifeless> commit does not alter your files
[11:11] <Lo-lan-do> jelmer: Thanks, I'll do that.
[11:11] <lifeless> jelmer: did you see my version_info bug for svn ?
[11:12] <ryanakca> lifeless: herm. *tries to find the old bug* just a sec
[11:12] <Lo-lan-do> Yay, it works :-)
[11:15] <jelmer> Lo-lan-do: cool, 0.4.2 should have a proper fix
[11:16] <jelmer> lifeless: yes, hope to have a look at it somewhere this week
[11:16] <lifeless> jelmer: should be trivial - just add 'dev', 0
[11:16] <lifeless> to the end of your version tuple
[11:17] <jelmer> lifeless: is there a bundle included in the bug report ? (-:
[11:17] <lifeless> nah
[11:17] <lifeless> fire n forget
[11:17] <jelmer> heh, ok
[11:20] <lifeless> yay
[11:20] <lifeless> one patch in
[11:24] <james_w> isn't it bzr commit --local?
[11:32] <lifeless> back shortly, breakkie
[11:52] <jelmer> lifeless: hmm, where did you file that bug? I can't find it?
[11:55] <ubotu> New bug: #137157 in bzr "Cannot lock: transport is read only" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/137157


[07:15] <spoonless[m]1> hello, is ubuntu linux associated with the african ubuntu socialism?
[07:25] <apw> spoonless[m]1, ubuntu linux is associated with the african concept/word ubuntu
[07:40] <spoonless[m]1> I'm a bit confused about the philosophy, it seems inherently racist - "From the 1970s, the ubuntu began to be described as a specific kind of "African humanism". Based on the context of Africanisation propagated by the political thinkers in the 1960s period of decolonisation, ubuntu was used as a term for a specifically African (or Southern African) kind of socialism or humanism found in blacks, but lacking in
[07:40] <spoonless[m]1> whites, in the context of the transition to black majority rule in Zimbabwe and South Africa. "
[07:41] <spoonless[m]1> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_(philosophy)
[07:45] <apw> spoonless[m]1, yeah but that is unrelated to the sentiment of the Ubuntu word which has no english equivalent, but "a quality that includes the essential human virtues; compassion and humanity" is how google translates it
[07:46] <apw> spoonless[m]1, it is that "togetherness" that the project is meant to espouse, and why it has that name
[07:48] <spoonless[m]1> but it is a kind of socialism/communism?
[07:48] <apw> no it is literally a word like "happy" or "sad"
[07:48] <apw> it means that kind of "having some humanity"
[07:49] <apw> we don't seem have needed that word in english, so we don't have a direct word for it
[07:49] <spoonless[m]1> the wiki article states it is to do with communitarian socialism. I would have thought that the African definition would be the definitive one
[07:50] <spoonless[m]1> have you read the wiki article?
[07:51] <apw> spoonless[m]1, yes, the first paragraph tell you the meaning of the word, and the second tells you "it has come to mean"
[07:51] <apw> spoonless[m]1, it is the first meaning that the project is related to
[07:51] <apw> not what it has come to mean
[07:51] <spoonless[m]1> so that is the current definition then
[07:52] <spoonless[m]1> yet, ubuntu linux was started after the 1970s, when the meaning had changed
[07:53] <apw> spoonless[m]1, this word has two meaning in time and space, i am telling you as a member of the project the first one is the one the project espouses
[07:54] <apw> very much the second wording of the meaning of the actual word, the bit about sharing
[07:55] <apw> and i would argue it has gained a second meaning, not the meaning "has changed"
[07:56] <apw> as the second paragraph says "has come to be used", that does not negate its original meaning
[07:56] <spoonless[m]1> so it's a bit like calling a project communist, but it has nothing to do with redistribution of wealth?
[07:56] <apw> no, it is like calling a project "be nice to people and share with them" but using a shorter zulu work for it
[07:57] <apw> like calling the free-office suite libreoffice because it sounds cool
[07:57] <apw> it does not make it french
[07:59] <spoonless[m]1> well, ubuntu doesn't seem to be working out very well in Zimbabwe under Mugabe. They redistributed the White owned farms and now they are starving
[08:00] <spoonless[m]1> and in South Africa they are singing songs about murdering the Whites. Not to mention the murder rate is shockingly high there
[08:01] <apw> spoonless[m]1, yes people a inherantly dangerous things which often do very dumb things, to each other
[08:01] <apw> spoonless[m]1, that doesn't change the meaning of the word, those things simply arn't ubuntu
[08:01] <apw> spoonless[m]1, much as they arn't nice
[08:02] <apw> spoonless[m]1, if "ubuntu" was called "nice" you wouldn't say it was a silly name because people arn't nice
[08:02] <apw> though you would have plenty of other reasons to think it was a bit daft
[08:13] <spoonless[m]1> www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=nice
[08:13] <spoonless[m]1> "late 13c., "foolish, stupid, senseless," from Old French nice (12c.) "careless, clumsy; weak; poor, needy; simple, stupid, silly, foolish," from Latin nescius "ignorant, unaware"
[08:14] <spoonless[m]1> anyway, ubuntu seems a bit anti-White to me. Especially with it being espoused by convicted terrorist Mandela
[08:17] <cking> Alice in Wonderland: "When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less." "The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things." "The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master—that's all."
[08:20] <apw> spoonless[m]1, the political movment maybe so, the project not so much
[12:40] <JPelletier> Hello everyone, I'm experiencing a random system HANG on reboot right after GRUB. I tried to print more logs with "earlyprintk=efi" and it's freezing right after "[    0.00000] bootconsole [earlyefi0] disabled"
[12:40] <JPelletier> Do you think it could be a Kernel bug?
[12:40] <JPelletier> I don't have a lot of experience with linux
[15:01] <JPelletier> Anyone can help me with my reboot HANG issue? I have no more ideas and I am a little desperate
[15:19] <tomreyn> JPelletier: i'd try getting support in #ubuntu first of all
[15:24] <tomreyn> oh you did. well try serial console or netconsole
[15:52] <JPelletier> tomreyn: Will try that next week, never did it before
[16:24] <magiclin-> Hi, i have some strange problems with the kernel/module ata_piix and the intel ICH9R controller (since i'm updatet to 16.04 - kernel 4.8)
[16:25] <magiclin-> https://pastebin.com/zMyH467S
[16:27] <magiclin-> https://pastebin.com/L7rC6A7a
[16:31] <magiclin-> can someone help?
[17:00] <tomreyn> magiclin-: if disabling IOMMU as a temporary workaround is an option for you, then give that a try. is it reproducible? does it only happen after suspend?
[17:01] <tomreyn> the klernel you are using is not the default 16.04 kernel version. is it the HWE one?
[17:01] <magiclin-> Linux sparks 4.8.0-58-generic #63~16.04.1-Ubuntu SMP Mon Jun 26 18:08:51 UTC 2017 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
[17:01] <magiclin-> not modified
[17:02] <magiclin-> it's not direct reproduciable , the error occurs  after some hours 6-24h of runetime
[17:03] <magiclin-> sometimes with the damage of the filesystem
[17:07] <tomreyn> so this is the HWE kernel, ok https://packages.ubuntu.com/xenial/linux-image-4.8.0-58-generic
[17:09] <magiclin-> yout mean, i should rebould the kernel with the config entry CONFIG_INTEL_IOMMU=n ?
[17:09] <magiclin-> rebuild
[17:11] <tomreyn> no, i was suggesting to disable it at kernel boot. but a better option is probably to just increase swiotlb as discussed here https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1256281
[17:12] <tomreyn> if it leaks memory, however, you'll have the same effect - it will run full later for you, too.
[17:12] <tomreyn> at this point it's unclear whether it leaks or it just needs more addressable memory, though.
[17:13] <tomreyn> also, i know very little about this stuff, you'd be better talking to someone who is actually into this.
[17:16] <magiclin-> ok thank you, i will try it with the kernel command line to
[17:25] <tomreyn> magiclin-: see the IOMMU (and thus swiotlb) documentation at https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/x86/x86_64/boot-options.txt - I am assuming this is x86_64 here, not i686.
[17:26] <tomreyn> so iommu=off was my initial suggestion, but i'm not actually sure this would improve things more than it would break.
[17:33] <magiclin-> i compared the working and the not working kernel configuration
[17:33] <magiclin-> https://pastebin.com/h1V6NDQY
[17:34] <magiclin-> there is only a difference in CONFIG_INTEL_IOMMU_SVM=y ?
[17:35] <tomreyn> the options i discussed are to be passed to linux during boot, on the kernel command line
[17:36] <tomreyn> i.e. edit /etc/default/grub and run update-grub
[17:36] <tomreyn> you are comparing two entirely different kernel versions there
[17:37] <tomreyn> 3.13.0 -> 4.8.0 is a HUGE diff
[17:38] <magiclin-> thats clear , you mean i should increase the swiotlb size ? and i'm asking if the problem eventually relatet to the iommu shared memory option too
[17:39] <jack__> hey guys, I'm running out of ideas and I'm wondering if you can help me, someone on #lubuntu reckoned this would be the place. I need kernel 4.12 or newer for the audio chip in my laptop, does anyone have a recommendation for an ubuntu/debian-based distro with that kernel?
[17:46] <magiclin-> ok initial you suggested to disable die IOMMU , after that to increase the loadbalancer size - sorry that's not my native language
[17:50] <magiclin-> @tomreyn https://cateee.net/lkddb/web-lkddb/INTEL_IOMMU_SVM.html
[18:06] <tomreyn> magiclin-: yes, that's what i suggested. swiotlb, however, is not a load balancer, but the 'SoftWare Input Output Translation Lookaside Buffer '
[18:07] <tomreyn> magicline: i understand that you are considering to rebuild your kjernel with IOMMU disbaled, I don't understand why you're considering a rebuild if you can just disable it using an oiption, however,
[18:08] <magicline> " ok thank you, i will try it with the kernel command line too"
[18:10] <tomreyn> okay ;)
[18:10] <magicline> :-)
[18:11] <tomreyn> i didnt spell this out but... AFAICT IOMMU without shared memory is of not much use, so disabling that is effictively as rigorous a measure as disabling iommu entirely.
[18:12] <tomreyn> (but i may be wrong there)
[18:23] <magicline> however , i will try the options - otherwhise i need a other HBA or mainboard :-/
[22:32] <spoonless[m]1> African Communism


[07:40] <diplo> Morning all
[07:56] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[07:57] <Gargoyle> mornin
[08:01] <brobostigon> morning
[08:06] <davmor2> Morning all
[08:07] <brobostigon> morning
[12:32] <foobarry> grrrrr
[12:32] <foobarry> spent all morning trying to fix an issue
[12:32] <foobarry> i have that certain kind of headache
[13:46] <diplo> Anyone alive in here today ?
[13:47] <diddledan> nope
[13:47] <diplo> Proliant dl380 g5, ever played with one
[13:48] <diplo> Want to stick a large sata drive in one, 3 spare baysLooks like I have to buy complete caddy
[13:48] <diplo> Don't have server locally
[13:48] <zmoylan-pi> i seem to remember many moons ago they had spare rails screwed to inside of pc.... was many moons ago however...
[13:49] <diplo> yeah this is in headoffice, want to install a drive for storage, may go back to usb idea at this rate
[13:54] <diddledan> it might have blank caddies in there
[13:55] <diddledan> i.e. remove blank caddy, insert drive into black caddy, replace caddy
[14:05] <diplo> I've asked the lad to have a look
[14:09] <zmoylan-pi> i'd look for the pdf of the unit in case it shows were they are located
[14:09] <zmoylan-pi> they can sneak them in were they won't be spotted unless you know precisely what you are looking for
[14:10] <diplo> He's found a caddy in the office so hopefully save the cost of buying that
[14:10] <zmoylan-pi> i once ripped out an unremoveable bay holder on a dell only to find the quick release instructions embossed on bottom side of the unit were it could only be read upside down with head inside case
[14:32] <diplo> Right, bought some drives, hope I've bought the right ones :D
[15:32]  * diddledan drools over the spinning rust
[15:33] <diddledan> I wonder how long till SSD is the same price as HDD per gigabyte
[15:46] <diplo> I guess a few more years yet ?
[15:47] <diddledan> not until after 2021 according to the article I just read on the register from may
[17:22] <diddledan> https://twitter.com/Tanner_Pfaff/status/900044997759823872
[17:23] <diddledan> apparently they're fake tho
[18:12] <daftykins> just been to a south coast bay - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTJrtLeHUto
[18:19] <diddledan> daftykins: that's disgusting!!
[18:19] <daftykins> few snaps too - http://imgur.com/a/5vciM
[18:19] <daftykins> the size of a twister ice cream is definitely disgusting :P
[18:19] <diddledan> ice cream too? you're a sick sonuva
[18:19] <daftykins> two no less, but don't tell anyone
[18:19] <diddledan> :-p
[18:19] <daftykins> (needed refreshment after carrying the bike up and down stairs around the cliffs)
[18:20] <diddledan> :-)
[18:21] <diddledan> Brian Kernighan (of C language fame) on "successful language design": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sg4U4r_AgJU


[00:29] <NCommander> cprov, ping?
[00:29] <kiko> NCommander, I think he's kinda out -- it's 20:30 his time
[00:30] <NCommander> kiko, argh. he said he'd message me later, and well, later is here :-P
[02:01] <Hobbsee> now, why did i just get an email?
[02:02] <Hobbsee> ah.  because i'm still an admin.
[02:48] <thumper> Hobbsee: I was going to say "because someone loves you"
[02:49] <Hobbsee> thumper: aww :)
[02:49] <Hobbsee> thumper: surely that isn't true.
[03:11] <corvus> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mysql/mysql-server/mysql-5.1-telco-6.3/files
[03:11] <corvus> says:  Sorry, there was a problem connecting to the Launchpad server.
[03:11] <corvus> and has been for at least 10 minutes or so
[03:12] <mwhudson> grr
[03:12] <kiko> hmmm
[03:13] <mwhudson> corvus: try now
[03:13] <corvus> much better, thx
[03:18] <kiko> mwhudson, memory, spinlocks, aliens or worse?
[03:18] <mwhudson> kiko: some combination of some things like that yes
[03:19] <kiko> ai ai
[03:19] <kiko> mwhudson, known problem at least?
[03:19] <mwhudson> kiko: we are aware there is a problem
[03:20] <kiko> mwhudson, not what the source of it is? :)
[03:23] <mwhudson> kiko: right
[03:23] <mwhudson> at least, not very clearly
[03:35] <lifeless> mwhudson: server process going into lalaland?
[04:27] <mwhudson> lifeless: pretty much
[05:58] <wgrant> Is it deliberate that the tour looks like I've walked into an Apple ad rather than anything to do with Launchpad?
[05:59] <beuno> wgrant, I think it's more of an accident than deliberate.  I know it's going to be changed soon-ish
[05:59] <wgrant> Wasn't it only redesigned last week?
[06:00] <wgrant> And... erm... https://edge.launchpad.net/+tour/bugs contains stuff I've never seen before.
[06:01] <beuno> wgrant, stuff like what?
[06:01] <wgrant> beuno: That task table up the top is fake.
[06:01] <wgrant> But the tour seems much better now, apart from some small things.
[06:01] <beuno> wgrant, it is
[06:01] <beuno> to simplify it
[06:02] <beuno> although I think it can be done better
[06:02] <beuno> anyway, I know it will get changed soon, don't know to what extent yet  :)
[06:02] <wgrant> The new tour is quite excellent.
[06:02] <beuno> please file bugs if you can think of something you really think should be changed
[06:08] <wgrant> beuno: Is launchpad-doc appropriate?
[06:08] <beuno> wgrant, yeap, that's exactly it
[06:08] <wgrant> Oh, doesn't exist.
[06:08] <wgrant> Ah, -documentation.
[06:08] <wgrant> The ML is -doc.
[06:09] <beuno> oh, yes, I though you where being a lazy typer  :)
[08:03] <pep> Once a bug is set to "fix released", I think it is impossible to access it other than by the URL... Is this a wanted behaviour?
[08:03] <Hobbsee> pep: advanced search
[08:04] <geser> pep: you can filter on only fix released bugs or look at all ever filed bugs
[08:04] <pep> Right, so you have to check the "fix released" box in the advanced search...
[08:05] <pep> I thought there would be a "show fixed bugs" option in the menu on the right, whilst browsing bugs related to a project/person/team ...
[08:05] <wgrant> pep: There is a filter. 'All bugs ever reported' or similar.
[08:08] <pep> wgrant: I didn't find that filter actually... The obly way is to go in advanced search, check 'fix released' in Status choice and then click search.
[08:08] <pep> only*
[08:09] <pep> now of course I don't know if it is necessary to have that option directly in the menu... but I was a little surprised.
[08:09] <kiko-afk> pep, wgrant: one thing up for 3.0 is making the search filters that are active on any given search page visible and editable
[08:09] <kiko-afk> pep, wgrant: I hate that it's so obscure today
[08:10] <pep> well I hate stumbling on things and thinking "oh... If I had seen that before..."
[08:11] <wgrant> kiko-afk: It is something that hasn't been touched in ages, and is a little strange, yes.
[08:11] <kiko-afk> wgrant, it's a bit hard to do because the code that does the filtering is kinda weird but.. so is everything else I guess! :)
[08:11] <pep> but at least, when you report a bug, the fixed ones appear in the search for similarities, so I suppose that's the most important.
[08:30] <wgrant> mpt: Are actions menus completely going away RSN, or are they being kept on subpages? They remain present on most now, which looks awful in a lot of cases due to badly thought out or hackish action titles.
[08:33] <jamesh> wgrant: I believe the plan is to phase them out.  It is a manual process though -- they won't be removed without making sure you can still perform the actions
[08:35] <wgrant> jamesh: They've been phased out on bug and project pages for example, but the pages within those objects do not (and will not) have places to put the actions, so they retain an actions menu. I'm wondering if those are going stay.
[08:35] <jamesh> wgrant: as the announcement said, I believe they will be phased out.  Mpt can confirm/deny though
[08:35] <wgrant> The actions menu must either be kept or a small amount of little-used functionality must be dropped from those pages.
[08:38] <jamesh> well, some of the actions become the second row of tabs, like the (details | merging | source code) tabs on branch pages
[08:38] <jamesh> that's for cases where you are flipping between different views of an object
[08:38] <jamesh> in other cases the actions get integrated into the page (like on bug pages)
[08:41] <wgrant> jamesh: I speak of cases like https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-bazaar/+bug/183162/+nominate
[08:41] <wgrant> I don't think there's anywhere for those links to go.
[08:41] <jamesh> wgrant: I'd assume they'd go on that page
[08:42] <jamesh> (don't quote me on it though)
[08:42] <wgrant> Where on that page?
[08:42] <wgrant> Or do you mean "go" as in "be removed from"?
[08:42] <jamesh> removed: the point of that page is to do something and return to the previous view, right?
[08:43] <jamesh> either submitting the form or going back
[08:43] <wgrant> Right.
[08:45] <persia> Is that the sort of action that is to be integrated into the page?
[08:46] <jamesh> persia: mpt always wants to reduce the number of page loads
[08:46] <jamesh> so I'd guess he'd want to, yes.
[10:01] <Hobbsee> morning mrevell
[10:02] <mrevell> hey Hobbsee
[10:02] <wgrant> mrevell: Is the tour meant to convince people that they've been DNS-poisoned to the Apple website?
[10:02] <Hobbsee> wgrant: only if it has the apple logo on it.
[10:03] <mrevell> wgrant: Heh, not quite.
[10:04] <wgrant> mrevell: It doesn't look like Launchpad, and it looks more like an Apple ad than anything else.
[10:04] <wgrant> But the tour is otherwise good.
[10:05] <mrevell> wgrant: It'll look more like LP once we've got the header in there but I'm not sure it necessarily needs to look like Launchpad. It's aimed at people unfamiliar with LP. I'm pretty pleased with the look of it, but of course there's always room for improvement.
[10:05] <Hobbsee> mrevell: wait, what?  the tour doesn't need to look like the product itself?
[10:06] <wgrant> mrevell: It needs a proper proofreading. I filed three bugs on it earlier, but there might be stuff I've missed.
[10:06] <mrevell> Hobbsee: It needs to have screen shots etc that look like the product but I don't see why the tour should ape the style of LP itself. They have two different jobs: one is meant to make it easy to use the Launchpad applications, the other is meant to show what LP is.
[10:06] <mrevell> wgrant: Thanks, I'll take a look at those.
[10:08]  * Hobbsee makes a note to look at said tour, but that does sound strange.
[10:08] <LarstiQ> Hobbsee: the bits of LP shown need to look like LP, but the rest?
[10:10] <wgrant> mrevell: I think the new tour is much more convincing and thorough than the old one.
[10:12] <Hobbsee> looks nice
[10:12] <Hobbsee> wgrant: i don't think that looks like apple.
[10:12] <Hobbsee> shiny, yes.  but not apple.
[10:12] <persia> mrevell: I still don't like 使用するホームページを選択してください。  Are you sure about that?
[10:12] <Hobbsee> if anything, it looks like kde.
[10:13] <Hobbsee> er, kde4.
[10:13] <mrevell> persia: A guy from the Japanese Ubuntu translations team gave it the thumbs-up. He said he was a native speaker. I can ask for more people to review it, if you're uncomfortable with it.
[10:13] <Hobbsee> mrevell: right, so the tour is about what launchpad could do, not what it actually looks, feels, and works like.
[10:13] <Hobbsee> LarstiQ: fair enough
[10:13] <mrevell> Hobbsee: Sure. Although there are examples of what it looks like.
[10:14] <persia> mrevell: Nope.  This is a case of my poor understanding then: I just usually don't see that construction.
[10:14]  * Hobbsee is sure a lot of this is poached from kde4 marketing, and recoloured.
[10:14] <Hobbsee> all the little people.
[10:14] <mrevell> persia: Cool.
[10:15] <mrevell> Hobbsee: Oi! It's all original work, I'll have you know :)
[10:15] <Hobbsee> oh, wait.  these ones have heads.
[10:15] <Hobbsee> mrevell: okay then :)
[10:16] <wgrant> Does anybody else find https://edge.launchpad.net/projects/+new-guided to be cluttered and hard to read?
[10:16]  * Hobbsee bleck.
[10:16] <Hobbsee> too much text.  no images.
[10:16] <wgrant> It doesn't seem to be an optimal font+size for a large amount of body text.
[10:16] <Hobbsee> and yay for unprofessional button text.
[10:17] <wgrant> And the excessive bolding might not help.
[10:17]  * Hobbsee goes and reads the page, after the initial comments.
[10:17] <mrevell> wgrant: I'll take a look at how we can make the page easier on the ye
[10:17] <Hobbsee> wgrant: did you report the missing "this" on that page?
[10:17] <mrevell> s/ye/eye
[10:18] <Hobbsee> scratch that.  who wrote this, and what had they had to drink at the time?
[10:18] <wgrant> Hobbsee: I gave up trying to read it, but I'll look and file it.
[10:18] <Hobbsee> wgrant: file a bug on the entire thiing.  it's shocking.
[10:18] <mrevell> Hobbsee: That's an interesting point you raise about the button text. Much of the Launchpad interface text is quite casual. Do you see that as a problem?
[10:18] <Hobbsee> mrevell: i don't really notice it with the other buttons.
[10:18] <Hobbsee> mrevell: so, not on those.  but i do see it as a problem with this page.
[10:18] <wgrant> mrevell: Very little Launchpad text is casual now.
[10:18] <mrevell> Hobbsee: Buttons tend to be quite to the point
[10:19] <Hobbsee> mrevell: i'm very aware that various ESL people may not recognise the expressions, either.
[10:20] <Hobbsee> a registration facility....these projects go to college or something?
[10:20]  * Hobbsee tries to figure exactly what is the worst thing on that page.
[10:20] <mrevell> wgrant: Feel free to assign the bug to me, when you file it.
[10:21] <Hobbsee> mrevell: do you want a whole list of things that are wrong with that page?
[10:21] <Hobbsee> for fixing before the next rollout?
[10:21] <wgrant> It has a similar problem to the one I referenced in bug #246594. It has an excessive amount of text.
[10:22] <mrevell> Hobbsee: Sure. I can see what I personally would like to change but if there are specific things you want to highlight, go for it.
[10:22] <wgrant> Only a couple of places in Launchpad have such an issue.
[10:22] <wgrant> Most of it is nice and terse.
[10:31] <Hobbsee> does one normally need a LP ID for shipit?
[10:31] <jamesh> yes
[10:31] <Hobbsee> ah
[10:31] <jamesh> although the requirement will eventually become just an authentication account
[10:37] <Hobbsee> mrevell: right, i have a screen of preliminary, unedited thoughts on it.
[10:38] <mrevell> Hobbsee: Cool, thanks. Unedited is fine :) Wanna email/pastebin me?
[10:40] <Hobbsee> mrevell: http://pastebin.ca/1088253 is a start.
[10:40] <mrevell> thanks Hobbsee
[10:41] <Hobbsee> mrevell: surely you should consider saying that *after* you've read it?  :P
[10:41] <Hobbsee> you may not want to thank me at all :P
[10:41] <mrevell> Hobbsee: I appreciate the effort :)
[10:41] <wgrant> kiko__: I think many Ubuntu people will disagree with your wontfixing of bug #253380. It is a legitimate problem.
[10:50] <jamesh> one thing I miss from the new LP theme is distinct silhouettes for icons
[10:50] <jamesh> they're all circles now
[10:52] <wgrant> I wonder when they'll make the people circular.
[10:56] <persia> wgrant: The release team has already worked around that, and mostly ignores Importance whn determining what must be fixed for a given milestone (as I understand it).
[10:57] <wgrant> persia: Workarounds are not fixes.
[10:58] <mrevell> danilos: Hello!
[10:58] <danilos> mrevell: hi there
[10:58] <persia> wgrant: I guess.  Still, having two importances would be confusing to me: I'd rather just have it be per-package.
[11:00] <wgrant> persia: I think the bug importance could perhaps be multiplied by an importance assigned to the package.
[11:00] <persia> wgrant: implicitly?  That would make a lot of sense.
[11:00] <wgrant> persia: Right.
[11:00] <wgrant> Because that's what we do now.
[11:01] <wgrant> Except we all do it differently, and it's difficult to be efficient.
[11:01] <persia> Right.
[14:00] <mpt> Gooooooooooooooooooooooood afternoon Launchpadders!
[14:01] <wgrant> Evening mpt.
[14:03] <Ursinha> hi wgrant
[14:03] <Ursinha> just saw a bug you've opened
[14:04] <Ursinha> and asked for some more info, can you take a look at it, please? It's bug 253532
[14:05] <wgrant> Ursinha: Sure, looking now.
[14:05] <Ursinha> wgrant, thanks!
[14:06] <wgrant> Ursinha: I unfortunately can't recall an example for the former case, but there are at least a couple of pages around where fields are marked with '(Required)'
[14:07] <wgrant> Let me see if I can find one...
[14:07] <Ursinha> wgrant, you mean they're marked as required but aren't?
[14:08] <wgrant> Ursinha: No. Most Launchpad forms have optional fields marked with '(Optional)', with required fields having no marking.
[14:08] <wgrant> On some pages, required fields are marked with '(Required)', and optional ones have no marking.
[14:08] <Ursinha> hm, ok
[14:08] <wgrant> I presume using a different form lib.
[14:09] <jamesh> wgrant: good deduction.  The newer forms should alls be using (Optional)
[14:12] <Hobbsee> wgrant: and most of the times, the fields marked (Optional) aren't required, too!
[14:13] <ScottK> Except when they are.
[14:13] <ScottK> My favorite being the patch description field.
[14:13] <wgrant> OK, I've found one page - <ProjectSeries>/+addpackage. But I presume from what jamesh said they're trivial to find.
[14:13] <ScottK> It's marked optional and it is, unless you actually want to add a patch.
[14:30] <Bowasilu> How should I manage releases of a project that is released in binary form? Of course I should be able to look at the underlying code for each release. Would I branch after each release?
[16:05] <kiko__> Bowasilu, not necessarily. what do you mean by released in binary form?
[16:05] <Bowasilu> kiko: It is released as an .app file for Mac OS X.
[16:06] <radix> Bowasilu: you could tag every time you do a release
[16:07] <Bowasilu> radix: That sounds good. Then I mark those revisions as "release x" and I am done.
[16:07] <radix> right
[16:07] <Bowasilu> Things are so obvious if one knows them...
[16:08] <ignas> hi
[16:09] <kiko> Bowasilu, oh, you keep the binary in revision control too?
[16:10] <Bowasilu> kiko: Hm. No, it is not in revision control. I am probably missing the point of your question.
[16:10] <TodoInTX> EdwinGrubbs: ping!
[16:13] <radix> Bowasilu: I think kiko got confused by the fact that you mentioned binary releases at all -- this isn't a problem that is particular to binary releases
[16:13] <radix> Bowasilu: but indeed any software which gets released
[16:14] <radix> it's useful to know which revision a release was made from
[16:27] <Ursinha> wgrant, still there?
[16:27] <Hobbsee> Ursinha: he'll be long asleep.
[16:28] <Ursinha> Hobbsee, oh
[16:28] <Hobbsee> Ursinha: east coast of australia - it's 1.28am.
[16:28] <Ursinha> hahaha oh, ok Hobbsee, thanks
[16:28]  * Hobbsee should go to bed.
[16:30] <kiko> siretart, ping?
[16:31]  * Bowasilu forgot to thank radix and does this now.
[16:32] <radix> :-)
[16:43] <siretart> kiko: pong
[16:44] <kiko> siretart, I'm on the phone with mark, but can we chat in about 1h or so?
[16:44] <siretart> kiko: I just returned in my office, but have a (small) meeting in a few minutes. I'm available for the conference after that
[16:44] <siretart> kiko: excellent!
[16:49] <calc> how do i delete something from a ppa tht is in dep-wait? i don't see the option to delete it
[16:53] <ScottK> calc: Did you find the general deletion link?  I think it's the same.
[17:04] <calc> ScottK: i don't see it no
[17:04] <calc> ScottK: i was wondering if it doesn't show up if the packages are in dep-wait
[17:04] <ScottK> It's kind of hidden (IMO)
[17:04] <calc> ScottK: how do you get to it?
[17:04] <ScottK> Looking so I can explain it
[17:05] <calc> unless it is really hidden i think its not there at all, heh
[17:05] <ScottK> The first time I looked it took me a while to find it with the new U/I
[17:06] <calc> sorry i am dumb
[17:06] <ScottK> You found it?
[17:06] <calc> somehow i got logged out of LP again
[17:06] <calc> thats been happening for unknown reasons several times recently
[17:06] <calc> yea now that i am actually logged in i see the delete button
[17:16] <calc> ScottK: if i delete a package from a ppa that didn't build can i reupload the same version number?
[17:17] <cprov> calc: no, uploaded versions are blacklisted like in the primary archive.
[17:17] <cprov> calc: you have to upload a higher version.
[17:19] <calc> oh ok
[17:33] <siretart> kiko: ping?
[17:34] <kiko> siretart, still on! will ping you
[17:34] <siretart> okay :)
[18:10] <kiko> siretart, ping? off the phone! ready to get on again :)
[18:12] <siretart> cool!
[18:12] <kiko> siretart, so, can we start in 8 minutes?
[18:12] <kiko> siretart, if you want to test the conf setup to ensure it works..
[18:13] <siretart> you mean I shall call the freecall phone number you sent me?
[18:13] <kiko> yep
[18:15] <siretart> "the leader has not yet arrived, please stand by"
[18:15] <siretart> seems to work, I'd say
[18:15] <siretart> I hang up and call again when you ping me, okay?
[18:15] <kiko> yep
[18:15] <kiko> siretart, T-5
[18:16] <siretart> k
[18:19] <kiko> siretart, okay, conf is up
[18:52] <Rinchen>
[18:52] <Rinchen> >> Launchpad Dev Team meeting in #launchpad-meeting at 18:00 UTC. Come join us.
[18:52] <Rinchen>
[19:11] <siretart> http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2008/07/msg00647.html
[19:13] <kiko-phony> siretart, woo, good call, thanks!
[19:14] <siretart> :)
[19:15] <siretart> kiko-phony: this is the bug I was talking about https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/252368
[19:16] <kiko-phony> thanks!
[19:18] <siretart> kiko-phony: you wanted to forward an updated list, right?
[19:18] <kiko-phony> siretart, I will do that as soon as my launchpad meeting is over.
[19:19] <siretart> aaah, I see
[19:19] <kiko-phony> rock on
[19:20] <siretart> uuh, meeting has started 18minutes ago, right?
[19:20] <siretart> me gf is gonna kill me if I not return home right now ;)
[19:20] <kiko-phony> heh
[19:20] <kiko-phony> okay! sorry! :)
[19:29] <emgent> siretart: take a look in Motu-ml some problem with REVU uploads.
[20:01] <lamalex> Can someone tell me how to delete a branch in this new UI?
[20:02] <kiko> lamalex, there's a little round button with a minus in it
[20:02] <kiko> it's next to the branch title
[20:02] <lamalex> ah ha
[20:02] <kiko> I was totally surprised until I found it :)
[20:02] <lamalex> The old way was much nicer
[20:03] <lamalex> "delete this branch"
[20:05] <kiko> lamalex, any change takes some getting used to. have you ever moved furniture around? :)
[20:05] <lamalex> well thanks for your help kiko
[20:05] <kiko> you're welcome!
[20:05] <lamalex> kiko: yes, but any change is not always good change
[20:05] <ScottK> +1
[20:05] <kiko> lamalex, agreed, but I don't think you can decide that in the space of days. :)
[20:05] <lamalex> I can hide my chair in a closet, I may still be able to sit in it, but I would hardly say that that's the best place for it
[20:06] <mtaylor> lamalex: depends on how large and nice your closet is...
[20:06] <beuno> kiko, when you're done with the LP meeting, could you nuke a comment on a bug?  I'm trying to teach LP to a non-techie, and he hasn't quite understood how email works  :)   https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/easyark/+bug/253715/comments/2
[20:06] <kiko> beuno, you need to ask a question for that, I can't myself :-(
[20:07] <lamalex> mtaylor: any closet suficiently large enough to make placing a chair in it a good decision, probably no longer really falls under the category of closet space
[20:07] <mtaylor> :)
[20:08] <beuno> kiko, ah, ok, will do. Thanks.
[20:08] <lamalex> ah am I interupting LP meeting?
[20:09] <kiko> lamalex, noooo. it's in #launchpad-meeting.
[20:09] <lamalex> ah ok good
[20:09] <lamalex> :)
[20:09] <lamalex> oh
[20:09]  * lamalex reads rest of topic
[20:09] <lamalex> I stopped at 1800UTC :{
[20:09] <lamalex> s/{/P
[20:09] <kiko> heh
[20:11] <kiko> aliens
[20:11] <kiko> scary
[20:12] <lamalex> anyway, thanks for the help guys. later
[20:16] <Rinchen> next meeting date


[01:29] <Daviey> Had a chat with Some_Person.  He now understands ubottu better :).
[03:28] <Flannel> Blargh
[03:28] <Flannel> What was the topic of #ubuntu?
[03:28] <Flannel> I totally just had a PEBKAC
[03:33] <Amaranth> eep
[03:37] <Flannel> Amaranth: Found it
[04:39] <rww> Goodday. Grexo/Grenfell is banned in #ubuntu-offtopic a bajillion times over and is currently ban-evading in there.
[04:39] <rww> and being particularly obnoxious
[04:42] <Flannel> He's not evading that I can see
[04:42] <rww> Flannel: he's user-0ccesmg.cable.mindspring.com, which is banned in there, for one. There are more.
[04:48] <rww> *!?=harborma@* is also him, for example. Unfortunately, I seem to have misplaced the text file with the nice long list.
[04:55] <rww> anyways, I'll leave y'all to it, since he seems to have quietened down again. Just figured you should know that he's still up to his old tricks.
[06:21] <bazhang> he seems to be PMing folks with the danger command
[06:21] <Flannel> oobe: What's the deal?
[06:22] <oobe> hi
[06:22] <oobe> nothing dont worry
[06:22] <oobe> its over now
[06:22] <Flannel> oobe: Hi, thanks for taking the time to join here.
[06:22] <oobe> was funny but now its not anymore
[06:22] <Flannel> However, it's not a "don't worry" situation
[06:22] <oobe> its ok i wont mess around with the bot
[06:22] <Flannel> it wasn't funny, nor is sending people malicious commands in queries.
[06:22] <oobe> im not sending malicous anything
[06:23] <oobe> please explain
[06:23] <Flannel> oobe: You're apparently sending people rm rf commands and things.
[06:24] <oobe> no
[06:24] <oobe> who said that
[06:24] <Flannel> Alright, don't worry about who said it.  Just make sure things like that don't happen in the future, and please don't play with the bot.
[06:25] <Flannel> #ubuntu is busy enough as it is, without people goofing around.
[06:25] <Flannel> oobe: Thanks again for coming in here, have a nice evening/day/whatever.
[06:26] <oobe> ok np
[06:27] <mneptok> oobe: remember, things like "lol, ubottu said fart" lead to people saying "rofl, mneptok said +b" ;)
[06:28] <oobe> oh ok
[06:28] <oobe> but he did say it
[06:29] <mneptok> yes, and i did not say "+b"
[06:29] <mneptok> and i don't want to. banning is so tiresome.
[06:30] <mneptok> especially when you seem otherwise somewhat clueful about Ubuntu stuffs. everyone loses.
[06:30] <mneptok> so let's not. :)
[06:43] <oobe> ok :)
[06:45] <oobe> ok see you later guys i won idle here nice talking to you both
[07:12] <elky> put him into the category of "if the channel is -t, it'll acquire fart in the topic at least once"
[07:18] <jussi01> I wanted to correct him about the gender of ubottu, but didnt think it was useful...
[10:33] <Flannel> Hi indus, how can we help you today?
[10:34] <Flannel> I guess we can't.
[11:15] <ikonia> it would appear a troll fest has just appeared in #ubuntu, and I've  just missed alvinware, I'll try to grab him in pm
[11:16] <Flannel> I know that nick.
[11:16] <ikonia> as do I
[11:16] <elky> not surprised
[11:19] <ikonia> just got a pm from this guy
[11:19] <ikonia> 11:14 <ikorin> what si wrong with you?
[11:19] <ikonia> then he signed out and back in
[11:19] <elky> hah. maybe you stole his nick
[11:20] <ikonia> he seems upset about something
[11:26] <ikonia> 11:23 <ikorin> what is yout sex?
[11:26] <ikonia> ???
[11:27] <jpds> ikonia: Surely you know the answer.
[11:27] <elky> jpds, he hasn't checked yet this morning.
[11:27] <ikonia> nope
[11:28] <elky> ikonia, you're a hermphrodite, remember.
[11:28] <elky> hermaphrodite, even.
[11:28] <ikonia> noted
[11:33] <ikonia> ok - he's getting a bit odd now asking where I live, seems like an upset a/s/l conversation that's only one way
[12:06]  * elky gives up trying to eat leftover curry lentils and orders pizza
[12:06] <ikonia> elky: that would be nice
[12:06] <elky> clearly they had a different person cooking them the other night. one whose version of mild could be used to nuke countries.
[12:31] <indus> oops
[12:31] <ikonia> hello indus
[13:09] <Myrtti> is ubottu on it's way back?
[13:09] <jussi01> yes
[13:09] <Myrtti> good
[13:09] <Myrtti> the natives are getting restless
[13:09] <jussi01> please everyone. if ubottu dies, ping me at the earliest opportunity.
[13:10] <elky> or anyone on the ircc.
[13:10] <elky> we all have access to the magic button
[13:11] <jussi01> yeah, though preferably me first, she has been playing up and Id like to see some stuff if I can.
[13:28] <jussi01> !test
[13:28] <jussi01> :)
[14:07] <Pici> erm. Can anyone make sense of this: 09:04:59 <?kelemengabor_> Just I need to try under attack in my new spam and troll bot
[14:15] <elky> not confidently, no
[14:15] <Seeker`> either they have a bot that spams and trolls, or they have a bot that detects spammers and trolls
[14:20] <Tm_T> hi
[14:21] <Pici> hi
[14:23] <Seeker`> hi
[14:28] <jussi01> Seeker`: Id say the latter, hence the "under attack"
[14:43] <ikonia> 7/window 37
[14:43] <ikonia> oops
[14:46] <Tm_T> ikonia: you really should add some bindings
[14:46] <elky> jussi01, yeah, i'm leaning that way too
[14:46] <ikonia> Tm_T: yup
[14:56] <Tm_T> you know what I find bit weird from my point of view?
[14:56] <Pici> hairless cats?
[14:57] <Tm_T> following irc discussion on ML (:
[14:57] <Tm_T> me, who avoid emails, especially lists and normally uses irc a lot
[14:58] <elky> Tm_T, yeah, lets use this commuincation medium to discuss this other communication medium.
[14:58]  * genii makes a fresh bodum of coffee
[14:59] <Tm_T> elky: thats normal, but what medium I was using was weird to me (:
[15:10] <Tm_T> and I think the conversation going on in ML is important, no comments about quality of it from me though yet
[15:38] <Pici> Anyone seen tsimpson around lately?
[15:43] <genii> Pici: I've been wondering the same thing
[15:54] <jussi01> nope. why?
[15:56] <Pici> Just curious
[15:56] <Pici> Wanted to talk to him a little bit about the bantracker
[18:38] <Pricey> ikonia: Is there anything else you really need from Alvin, after mnep & my discussion with him?
[19:22] <Tm_T> hi Mez
[19:23] <Mez> o_O
[19:23] <Mez> hi.
[19:23] <Mez> damned IRC config.
[19:26]  * genii sips
[19:32] <Mamarok> what is this, a game?
[19:32] <Myrtti> yeah
[19:32] <jpds> Mamarok: Yes, it's called life.
[19:39] <jussi01> Hiya stickboy
[19:39] <stickboy> hello jussi01
[19:39] <jussi01> Basically that pinged everyone in the list there.
[19:40] <stickboy> sorry for the ping, last time i got spammed i was told by the op that responded to use that command.
[19:40] <jussi01> Best to save it for channel emergencies, if you are getting that kind of spm, drop by here and let us know
[19:41] <jussi01> Spam in the channel is different, it warrants an ops call. but if its private chat, just best to drop by and let us know, as not to disturb the channel
[19:41] <stickboy> ok, will do.
[19:41] <jussi01> stickboy: Thanks for understanding, we appreciate it :)
[19:54] <Myrtti> hilipatipimpan
[19:55] <Tm_T> hi Myrtti (:
[19:56] <Tm_T> Myrtti: I propably forgot this earlier so thank you, R. liked the card and bears (:
[20:03] <Myrtti> [22:02] < iceroot> |-Gobi-| no, but if you are using diat-upgrade, you  always need to reboot (with upgrade you dont need to  reboot)
[20:06] <Tm_T> erm
[20:06] <Tm_T> weird attempt for simplification
[20:19] <ikonia> Pricey: apologies, missed you earlier, I basically wanted 30 seconds to just confirm he understood no ban evading, and no bad language, and no telling people to leave the channel if he didn't like the responses, I know you had a conversation with him but it got quite blured with the discussion between yourself/mnep and you'd spoke to him in pm so I didn't get the full picture. If you are happy he got the message dump the ban, I just didn't see it pe
[20:20] <Myrtti> ikonia: you got cut off
[20:20] <Myrtti> I just didn't see it pe
[20:20] <ikonia> ughhh
[20:20] <ikonia> how stupid
[20:21] <ikonia>  just didn't see it personally as the comments I saw in channel didn't sit easy with me, but I know you did put effort with him in pm
[20:21] <ikonia> there we go
[20:22] <ikonia> Myrtti: thanks for the heads up,
[20:22] <ikonia> is that an irc server thing, or an irssi client thing that cuts it off
[20:22] <Myrtti> irssi
[20:22] <Myrtti> there's a plugin for it
[20:22] <Myrtti> well
[20:22] <Myrtti> actually
[20:22] <Myrtti> it is a server thing
[20:22] <Pici> its a server limitation
[20:22] <Myrtti> irssi just can bypass it
[20:22] <ikonia> ta
[20:22] <Myrtti> ikonia: splitlong.pl
[20:23] <ikonia> danke
[20:40] <Myrtti> I HAVE BOOKED FLIGHTS TO UK! \o/
[20:42] <Tm_T> (:)
[20:43] <Seeker`> grats
[20:56]  * Myrtti feels warm and fuzzy inside
[21:05] <Pici> I gotta go, but it looks like #u might need a few hits of the offtopic stick.
[21:12] <Tm_T> Myrtti: must Be flu
[21:32] <Pricey> ikonia: I made my opinion on those statements during that conversation.
[21:49] <erUSUL> hi
[21:49] <Flannel> Howdy erUSUL, how can we help you today?
[21:49] <erUSUL> anyone ?
[21:49] <erUSUL> 22:47 < nycrbot> erUSUL: Results for hda: 1. Hispanic Dental Association: http://www.hdassoc.org/ | 2. HDA, Inc. - Premier  Provider of Lifestyle Media Products: http://www.hdainc.com/ | 3. HDA Parts Network - The Heavy Vehicle  Professionals: http://www.hdamerica.com/
[21:49] <erUSUL> a rogue bot in #ubuntu ?
[21:50] <erUSUL> XD
[21:50] <Flannel> erUSUL: I'll look into it, thanks
[21:50] <erUSUL> no problem
[21:50] <erUSUL> ciao
[22:11] <Flannel> Doesn't look like a bot, just a script.  I left him a message (since he seems to be away) about coming back once he's removed them, but I've removed him in the meantime
[22:14] <nalioth> Flannel: it was a bot, and it was all over the network
[22:46] <h00k> They were talking about Grexo in #ubuntu-offtopic, we're pretty sure he's ban-evading
[22:52] <h00k> ...and has now left.
[22:52] <h00k> thanks anyways!
[22:58] <h00k> (Grexo is back)
[23:01] <niko> h00k: what he did ?
[23:02] <h00k> niko: afaik, he was banned from #ubuntu-offtopic previously (or still may be)
[23:02] <h00k> i could be wrong
[23:02] <h00k> rww was saying about it, said he tried to tell #ubuntu-ops, nobody said anything
[23:02] <h00k> so, I suppose I'm just letting you know
[23:04] <niko> thanks anyways
[23:04] <h00k> niko: is this still the case?
[23:04] <niko> i check log on my side, i can't answer you yet
[23:06] <niko> i see no ban about him
[23:06] <h00k> standby, rww had his other names
[23:11] <Flannel> Yeah, he's banned
[23:12] <h00k> also, incoherent and annoying ^.^
[23:13] <Flannel><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[23:13] <h00k> that, yeah.
[23:13] <niko> it's for you :)
[23:14] <h00k> Also previously Grexo, Grenfell, Harbormasta, Cornmuffin
[23:14] <Flannel> and various others
[23:15] <Flannel> He's out of -ot now
[23:15] <h00k> also <rww> oh, he was also banned under a bunch of Traveller nicks when he was using the Java client
[23:16] <h00k> rww said he is going to grab hostnames from previous, also
[23:16] <Flannel> h00k: We've got them.
[23:16] <h00k> Flannel: thanks.
[23:16] <Flannel> h00k: We have logs, databases, etc.
[23:16] <h00k> I'll head out, then
[23:16] <h00k> thanks for the time :)


[08:41] <AlecTaylor> hi
[08:41] <AlecTaylor> I'm looking for a FOSS Flash or Java project featuring "Click to call" functionality from the browser. Do you know of such a project?
[12:30] <AlecTaylor> em is going crazy
[12:30] <AlecTaylor> emma: Fix your network already! :P
[12:32] <AlecTaylor> I'm looking for a FOSS Flash or Java project featuring "Click to call" functionality from the browser. Do you know of such a project?
[16:58] <paulproteus> I'm adding the upcoming events to http://events.openhatch.org/
[16:58] <paulproteus> http://events.openhatch.org/venues/5 is the events for this venue (IRC channel). Is the Amanda Brock talk the only upcoming one, and is my description accurate?
[16:58] <pleia2> paulproteus: we've also got https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuAppDeveloperWeek coming up next week
[16:58] <paulproteus> The site needs help dealing with time zones; we're working on that for now.
[16:59] <paulproteus> Oh, neat!
[16:59] <pleia2> (not on the schedule yet because the schedule isn't finalized)
[16:59] <paulproteus> This is kind of exciting.
[16:59] <paulproteus> Okay, cool.
[16:59] <pleia2> yes :)
[16:59] <paulproteus> Will there be an e.g. gcal feel feed for this?
[16:59] <pleia2> yeah, it'll be added to the same cal as in the topic
[17:00] <paulproteus> pleia2, also, can I interest you in adding those to that big calendar? If I didn't explain before, we're looking to have info on all events that teach free software contribution events.
[17:00] <paulproteus> Okay, great -- then maybe once those go live, ping me here, and I'll see if we can auto-add from your iCal or something.
[17:00] <pleia2> paulproteus: unfortunately I barely have time to add them to our own calendar, so it would be hard
[17:01] <paulproteus> The app supports auto-import to avoid lots of time-wasting. Once you publish the schedule, I will see what makes sense.
[17:01] <paulproteus> Maybe I can get you to visit http://events.openhatch.org/sources/new and paste in the iCal feed. We'll see how swamped you are!
[17:02] <pleia2> does it re-read the feed, or do you have to reimport each time you make a change?
[17:02] <paulproteus> I think sadly it doesn't re-read the feed, from what it looks.
[17:02] <pleia2> (changes happen often during week events)
[17:02] <paulproteus> Oh, interesting.
[17:02] <paulproteus> I'm fairly new to it, and haven't read the code carefully yet, but from using the UI it feels like you have to notify it of changes.
[17:03] <paulproteus> It's free software (in Rails), and that sort of thing could likely be added.
[17:03]  * pleia2 nods
[17:03] <pleia2> I'll nudge the team in #ubuntu-classroom-backstage and maybe we can get a volunteer to maintain it :)
[17:03] <paulproteus> Ooh, nice.
[17:04] <paulproteus> I'm happy to talk more about the calendar, too, and why I think it's a good thing (-:
[17:04] <paulproteus> (is that a private channel?)
[17:04] <pleia2> completely open :) you're welcome to join