[00:26] <davef> 35 mins and then I'm on vacation until the 4th.
[00:40] <penguin42> can your network hold together that long?
[00:40] <davef> it needs to for the next 20 mins
[00:41] <davef> all the maintenance cron jobs in APAC are done by now, EMEA cron jobs will start in about 20 mins.
[00:42] <penguin42> you mean after you log out?
[00:42] <davef> yup
[00:42] <davef> APAC will be awake at that time, so they will take care of any issues.
[00:44] <penguin42> SEP
[00:50] <davef> just 10 more mins
[01:02] <davef> And that's it. Done!
[12:28] <penguin42> Merry xmas!
[12:33] <juglugs1974> Happy Kwanza
[12:34] <zxmpi> happy solstice +6
[12:37] <daftykins> :)
[12:37] <daftykins> hmm dishwasher still conking out, probably gonna have to give in and replace it... first expense of the new year perhaps
[12:39] <zxmpi> get some real bargins in the new year sales. this one has the dent of someones head in it but i keep liking the price of the one with bitemarks :-P
[15:42] <davef> daftykins: my dishwasher died about a year ago. took the unit out, put it on the side of the street and it was never seen again. to this date, i still don't have a dishwasher. now the dishes pile up until out of frustration i'll wash them in the sink. :)
[15:43] <zxmpi> in the future you'll have to add an apple tag so we can learn about these appliance migrations so rarely discussed :-P
[15:44] <davef> that would be a waste of a dishwasher.
[15:45] <daftykins> lol
[15:45] <zxmpi> but we'd find the whereabout of the secret dishwasher graveyard! think of the profit in spare parts we could loot? :-P
[15:46] <daftykins> cor!
[15:46] <zxmpi> who would play your role in the hollywood movie? :-P
[15:46] <daftykins> this one fails by seemingly tripping its' own power early on in the cycle, but not enough to go permanently off - it kind of just fades out so the LEDs go off, then it manages to come back
[15:47] <daftykins> could be some kind of resettable fuse? who knows, figure it'd beyond me skill to diagnose for sure
[15:47] <daftykins> can't even think how to get down to the boards to eyeball them, probably all hidden in the door i suppose
[15:48] <davef> i tried to get a circulation pump and a door latch for my old one, would have been about $250, half the price of a new budget model.
[15:48] <davef> these things are designed to be thrown away after 5-10 years
[16:07] <zxmpi> there are now plans for open source farming equipment, when do we get open source house appliances?
[16:28] <daftykins> if you get the first one, how long 'til the bugs are worked out?
[16:29] <daftykins> how long 'til one arm forks the earlier project 'cause they think anti-clockwise rotation is superior? :D
[16:29] <zxmpi> you just reprogram the arduino yourself :-P
[16:29] <zxmpi> well... anti clockwise rotation is superior in the northern hemisphere :-P
[16:29] <zxmpi> ... or is it southern...
[16:30] <zxmpi> that's why you install the gps add on module in your microwave


[08:53] <pasasap_> I am back. I am running that on openstack of my team.
[08:53] <pasasap_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/24053660/ btw
[14:04] <pasasap_> If I pass to runcmd some commands, ie. Ansible, then even if I try to run as ubuntu user, then user is root. Can I force that cmd is launched as non root user?
[14:04] <smoser> pasasap_, what openstack ?
[14:05] <pasasap_> Neutron.
[14:06] <smoser> pasasap_, ok. so in that paste above 2453660
[14:06] <smoser> you have only Ec2 datasource enabled.
[14:06] <smoser> i suspect you possibly have a config drive attached.
[14:06] <smoser> and that cluod-init would/should get networking configuration from taht config drive.
[14:07] <smoser> then... either you have a broken metadata service (which used to be quite common on openstack with neutron)
[14:07] <pasasap_> It one time can get metadata, another time cannot.
[14:07] <smoser> or you have no metadata service.
[14:07] <smoser> in the log there, you have only configured cloud-init to look for Ec2.
[14:08] <smoser> do you have a config drive attached do you know ?
[14:08] <pasasap_> I dont know, possibly not.
[14:08] <smoser> ie, there might be a small disk attached.
[14:08] <smoser> so definitely  you need to fix cloud-init config so that it looks for OpenStack and ConfigDrive
[14:08] <pasasap_> That was installed with packstack if I remember.
[14:08] <smoser> (run dpkg-reconfigure cloud-init)
[14:09] <smoser> i dont know about packstack, i dont particularly have an interest in knowing about image building tools...
[14:09] <smoser> i generally think they're silly
[14:09] <smoser> we make images that "just work", and if they dont then we will fix them.
[14:09] <smoser> (i view building images the same way as I view building glibc or kernel... sure you can do it, but why?)
[14:10] <smoser> so i'd much rather focus on trouble shooting the official ubuntu images to start.
[14:10] <smoser> then you have somethign that works and you can compare.
[14:10] <pasasap_> I tried official image, xenial-server-cloudimg-amd64-disk1.img also  has the same problem.
[14:10] <smoser> with regard to running as non-root, cloud-init runs as root, so runcmd runs as root.  you can execute things as other users using 'su' or 'sudo'
[14:11] <smoser> here is 'my-userdata' that i launch vms with generally
[14:11] <smoser>  http://paste.ubuntu.com/24058888/
[14:11] <smoser> see 'as_def_user' for a way to run things as non-root
[14:12] <smoser> its more complicated then you need, but basically it goes looking for a user in a list (smoser , ubuntu, azuser....) and executes as that user... the reason for the searching is that some clouds have different default user and this just finds whatever that user is.
[14:12] <smoser> pasasap_, the official image may well have a problem for you, but it will have more than just the Ec2 datasource enabled.
[14:12] <smoser> so that is at least one problem that we can avoid trouble shooting.
[14:12] <smoser> that make sense ?
[14:13] <smoser> lets get *something* working, then you can have a reference that works and figure out the differences.
[14:16] <pasasap_> OK, but which datasources should be enabled?
[14:25] <smoser> well, in the official image, all of them are
[14:25] <smoser> but most likely you need ConfigDrive and OpenStack
[14:26] <smoser> but ... lets just go with the official image.
[14:26] <smoser> i suggest:
[14:26] <smoser>  a.) download that to an ubuntu system some where
[14:27] <smoser>  b.) backdoor it: (run backdoor-image --user=backdoor --password-auth --password=passw0rd your.image)
[14:27] <smoser>  http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~smoser/+junk/backdoor-image/files
[14:27] <smoser> then upload that.
[14:27] <smoser> then if it fails, you'll still be able to ssh in as 'backdoor' with 'passw0rd'
[14:28] <smoser> and then you can poke around that way and see what failed.
[14:43] <smoser> pasasap_, does that make sense ?
[14:44] <pasasap_> Yes.
[20:10] <rharper> smoser: around?
[20:10] <smoser> here
[20:10] <rharper> wanted to hangout for like 10 minutes to talk networkd during boot issues
[20:12] <rharper> https://hangouts.google.com/hangouts/_/canonical.com/hangout-rharper?authuser=1
[20:13] <smoser> ok
[20:13] <smoser> can i have 5 m inutes ?
[20:14] <smoser> htne meet
[20:14] <rharper> yeah
[20:24] <smoser> 3:30 (2:30 central)
[20:24] <smoser> i'll join then
[20:24] <smoser> rharper, https://code.launchpad.net/~smoser/cloud-init/+git/cloud-init/+merge/318282
[20:25] <smoser> if you want to take a read of that i'd appreciate it.
[20:25] <smoser> better commit messages needed, and some doc, and test :)
[20:25] <rharper> ok
[20:30] <rharper> smoser: I've got 5 mins then I'll be back at the top of the hour
[20:33] <rharper> I'll re-ping in 30
[20:33] <smoser> ok.s orry
[20:56] <rharper> https://hangouts.google.com/hangouts/_/canonical.com/hangout-rharper?authuser=1
[20:59] <rharper> smoser: ^^
[21:25] <smoser> rharper, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cloud-init/+bug/1667735
[23:34] <stanguturi> I am trying to build cloud-init deb package and got 'Unmet build dependencies: python3-coverage' error. Any idea how I can get this resolved


[00:50] <thumper> hads: the power button has intermittantly stopped working
[00:50] <thumper> hads: I've just sent it off
[00:50] <thumper> hads: it seems to be a common hardware fault
[01:12] <hads> Interesting. I've not had trouble with mine.
[01:13] <hads> Occasionally the screen won't respond to touches when it's locked so you can't unlock it and have to remove the battery to reboot.
[01:38] <thumper> hads: I've not had that problem
[01:39] <thumper> hads: I have had the screen not be accurate, but making it "sleep" and waking it again seems to fix that
[01:58] <hads> Haven't had that one
[18:21] <ibeardslee> morning
[18:50] <Atamira> mornin
[19:44] <ajmitch> morning
[19:55] <ojwb> morning
[20:01] <chilts> morning
[20:03] <mwhudson> morning
[20:13] <thumper> morning
[21:13] <hads> morninG
[21:15] <ibeardslee> ohhh with a capital G
[21:37] <hads> Fancy huh
[21:40] <ajmitch> quite


[01:04] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [greybird] r546 Make radio- and checkbuttons consistent between Gtk2 and 3 (... (by Simon Steinbeiß)
[10:20] <bluesabre> ochosi: can you attach a screenshot to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-default-settings/+bug/1753015 ?
[15:48] <ochosi> bluesabre: done, i hope that helps. i can also add another of the print queue, but that doesn't really differ from printing in any other way
[19:50] <flocculant> bluesabre: seems that downloading updates when installing is default rather than enabling that
[19:56] <krytarik> https://code.launchpad.net/~seb128/ubiquity/default-enable-downloads/+merge/337967 - but as opposed to what they intended that for, it will still happen - they will just get downloaded while installing already.
[19:59] <flocculant> lovely
[20:00] <flocculant> takes an age for desktop to appear in a vm
[20:03] <flocculant> ochosi: still got this ... https://i.imgur.com/s1oYOaW.png
[20:04] <ochosi> we shouldn't be using this plugin anymore though
[20:04] <flocculant> not sure why - thought you were under the impression that was sorted
[20:04] <ochosi> it was superseded by the status notifier plugin
[20:04] <ochosi> it *is* fixed upstream
[20:04] <flocculant> well - we are on the live
[20:05] <ochosi> but the fix was never released and nobody ever pushed the fix into xubuntu...
[20:05] <ochosi> looks like a borked panel config then
[20:05] <ochosi> unless we still use indicator-plugin for something (indicator-messages..?)
[20:05] <ochosi> guess we have to ask bluesabre
[20:05] <flocculant> ok :)
[20:05] <ochosi> and to the worst we should push the patch that i made upstream into xubuntu at least
[20:06] <ochosi> or i simply do a release
[20:06] <flocculant> ind-messages is still in the live
[20:08] <flocculant> yup - just thought I'd mention it :)
[20:35] <ochosi> bluesabre: please test: https://code.launchpad.net/~ochosi/lightdm-gtk-greeter/fix-panel-adwaita
[20:43] <ochosi> bluesabre: really fixes adwaita for me, i guess i just need to drop most of the jumping-through-hoops in greybird if we merge this
[20:47] <ochosi> bluesabre: here you go, this is how it looks: https://imgur.com/a/atFFD
[20:47] <ochosi> bluesabre: the .osd class means the panel is semi-transparent, which is a little sassy (but can also lead to slight readability issues, as always)
[20:48] <ochosi> bluesabre: i'd also add some padding to the system name on the left (jarvis in my case)
[22:40] <bluesabre> ochosi, flocculant: still using xfce4-indicator-plugin, statusnotifier only shows app indicators, things like indicator-messages, indicator-power, indicator-sound, and the like are displayed in ind-plugin
[22:40] <ochosi> then i either need to do a release or we need to push in the patch
[22:40] <ochosi> (it's obviously a trivial patch)
[22:40] <bluesabre> release would be better since it includes the translations
[22:41] <bluesabre> patch would be only English
[22:41] <bluesabre> unless you add the po/ to the patch as well :)
[22:42] <ochosi> heh
[22:42] <ochosi> true that
[22:42] <ochosi> lemme check what happened in the repo since
[22:42] <ochosi> (at least i vaguely remember pushing the patch to the repo)
[22:43] <ochosi> there it is: https://git.xfce.org/panel-plugins/xfce4-indicator-plugin/commit/?id=21cd98844138b2bc381f3d87479f65c2f0bb7649
[22:43] <ochosi> in all its glory
[22:45] <bluesabre> indeed :)
[22:45] <bluesabre> was looking at that the other day and stopped when I saw the new string
[22:46] <bluesabre> anyway, dinner time, gotta run
[22:53] <ochosi> bluesabre: there are several commits there, including a switch to xfconf 4.13, not sure we want that as a release
[22:54] <ochosi> i mean ofc we can just tag something "in the middle", but there won't be a properly built release package, just the tarball from cgit...
[22:54] <ochosi> alternatively we can ship a snapshot version
[22:55] <ochosi> but i guess we need to start by packaging the status quo and testing it


[00:52] <wakejagr> i have ubuntu server installed on a laptop.  is there a way to remove the waiting for network configuration from the boot scripts?
[00:57] <SpamapS> wakejagr: plug in a network cable? ;)
[00:59] <SpamapS> wakejagr: you can use network-manager w/o the GUI (edit /etc/NetworkManager/system-connections and use nmcli) .. or try something like connman. Otherwise, I think we'll add a new 'auto-nowait' group in precise that will allow users in your situation to have an interface that is brought up "when possible" by ifupdown.
[01:01] <wakejagr> thanks for the info
[01:18] <arrrghhh> hey all, i recently added a new user to my server and his internet connection has been flaky
[01:19] <arrrghhh> he had a bunch of failed logins, and now his IP is in hosts.deny
[01:19] <arrrghhh> i removed it, restarted ssh.... and "something" added his IP right back into hosts.deny
[01:19] <arrrghhh> is this dansguardian?  what is adding him right back, and why?
[01:20] <twb> I thought dansguardian was just a shitty proprietary version of squidguard
[01:20] <arrrghhh> hrm
[01:21] <arrrghhh> i guess i don't know then
[01:21] <arrrghhh> all i do know, for sure, is that his IP keeps ending up in hosts.deny
[01:21] <arrrghhh> and removing it and restarting ssh did nothing.
[01:21] <twb> That sounds like fail2ban / denyhosts
[01:21] <arrrghhh> ah
[01:21] <arrrghhh> that sounds right
[01:21] <twb> Most things don't write to tcpwrappers
[01:21] <arrrghhh> i think i did fail2ban, can't remember
[01:22] <twb> Which in turn will be because someone is brute-force logging in from his IP and causing one of those two to see (via auth.log) an attack
[01:22] <arrrghhh> i see the refused connections in auth.log
[01:40] <arrrghhh> ah.  well, i guess i shouldn't have asked in here...
[02:00] <twb> Uh, whatever
[02:00] <twb> If you had hung around, I'd have helped more
[02:09] <EvilResistance> heh
[02:53] <Nuc134rB0t> Hello, I installed Webmin because I thought I could manage it from Terminal then I found out I need a browser and w3m is too complicated, so I'm installing ubuntu-desktop. Is that ok or I'm just missing the whole concept of Server with no GUI?
[02:53] <twb> w3m is too complicated?
[02:54] <twb> What's simpler?  curl?
[02:54] <Nuc134rB0t> to manage webmin I think yes.
[02:54] <twb> Don't use webmin.
[02:54] <Nuc134rB0t> What should I?
[02:54] <twb> If you can't administer a system from the command line, you shouldn't be in charge of it
[02:55] <twb> If you really must have a web UI, I believe ebox is the flavour du jour, but IMO they're all terrible
[02:55] <Nuc134rB0t> That is true, but this is just a home server for learining propuses, not my work.
[02:55] <twb> My position still holds
[02:56] <Nuc134rB0t> How do you recommend I learn the use use a server then?
[02:57] <Nuc134rB0t>  How do you recommend I learn the use of a server then?*
[02:57] <twb> By asking questions here
[02:57] <twb> And reading the Ubuntu Server Guide
[02:58] <Nuc134rB0t> But you are suggesting me to not be in charge of my own server I installed to learn how it works.
[02:59] <twb> No, I'm saying either learn how it works or don't use it.
[02:59] <twb> Deploying webmin will not teach you how a server works.
[02:59] <Nuc134rB0t> Oh! good then.
[02:59] <twb> Such tools exist specifically so people DON'T have to learn
[03:00] <Nuc134rB0t> Haven't seen it that way.
[03:00] <qman__> also, this
[03:00] <qman__> !webmin | Nuc134rB0t
[03:00] <twb> qman__: heh, I hesitated to paste the dpkg bot's version
 Webmin is a lame web-based interface for unsafe system administration for Unix.  Check it out at http://webmin.com/ Remember, dondelelcaro *hates* webmin.  "i'd rather sit on the floor shoving table knives into live electrical outlets than run webmin on an exposed server."  Removed from Debian post-Sarge, see http://bugs.debian.org/343897 .  The Debian package from webmin.com is of poor quality.  See <free whc
[03:01] <twb> p> for alternatives.
[03:01] <qman__> installing things like webmin or desktops will not help you learn to administer a server
[03:01] <qman__> webmin is a crutch for those who don't want to learn, and the GUI does nothing to aid, as all the tools are command line anyway
[03:01] <twb> Hear, hear
[03:02] <twb> In squid, can I say "cache_dir aufs 24GB" instead of "cache_dir aufs 24576" ?
[03:02] <twb> obviously the former is more readable
[03:02] <Nuc134rB0t> qman__, I did not know about the support, thanks.
[03:04] <Nuc134rB0t> I guess I will have to ctrl+x this lol
[03:04] <Nuc134rB0t> Should have asked first.
[03:05] <Nuc134rB0t> i meant ctrl+c
[03:07] <qman__> the server guide is the best place to start
[03:07] <qman__> and find yourself a crash course on bash
[03:08] <twb> qman__: do you know about M-_ in bash?
[03:08] <qman__> I learned it mostly through trial and error, so I can't personally recommend any resources
[03:08] <qman__> can't say I do
[03:08] <twb> Inserts last argument of previous command
[03:08] <twb> e.g. ls -ld foo; rm M-_ ==> rm foo
[03:09] <Nuc134rB0t> Hmm I will think about that, since I know too basic commands for an Ubuntu user since 6.06
[03:09] <twb> It's actually readline, so it works in e.g. python too
[03:09] <qman__> interesting
[04:53] <swharper> question: i have a raid6 config using 11.10 - trying to share /dev/md1 via samba - how do i accomplish that
[05:30] <pythonirc101> does anyone here maintain their own email server ? I've to deploy an email ssytem for a small company (10 people), currently they use gmail, but do not like the fact that google stores their data
[05:30] <pythonirc101> any suggestions on what i should use for a gmail replacement
[05:47] <lifeless> hallyn: where is the upstream for lxcguest? I have a tweak to the /var/run workaround, but want to check my lxcguest.conf isn't just foot-gunning me
[05:58] <SpamapS> lifeless: I believe the Ubuntu package is the upstream.
[05:59] <SpamapS> ./debian/lxcguest.lxcguest.upstart
[06:47] <koolhead17> hi all
[07:11] <twb> SpamapS: surely you don't need both of those lxcguest. 's
[07:13] <SpamapS> twb: indeed, first is package name, second is upstart job name
[07:15] <twb> Yeah but doesn't dh_installinit default to assuming them the same?
[07:15] <twb> It's only if you call dh_installinit with --name fred that it's different or so
[07:15] <SpamapS> not that i know of
[07:15] <twb> Hum
[07:15] <twb> That's lame, because for the sysvinit part I'm pretty sure you can
[07:18] <SpamapS> twb: it may default to the first package in debian/control if its not specified
[07:18] <twb> mm
[08:10] <jamespage> morning all
[08:13] <cwillu_at_work> Thank you for observing law 421:  no morning that started with piping netcat into bash and back shall be called "good".
[08:58] <lynxman> jamespage: morning!
[08:58] <jamespage> morning lynxman
[09:05] <koolhead17> http://xkcd.com/978/ lol
[09:09] <RoyK> http://xkcd.com/979/ was even better :)
[09:10]  * koolhead17 clicks
[09:10] <lynxman> RoyK: LOL
[09:10] <koolhead17> aah RoyK its true. :P
[09:10] <koolhead17> hola lynxman
[09:11] <lynxman> koolhead17: ello O/
[09:11] <lynxman> ouch o/
[09:11] <RoyK> koolhead17: I usually read xkcd every [mon,wed,fri]
[09:12] <koolhead17> lynxman, i been doing that :)
[09:12] <koolhead17> RoyK, so do i at times. :P
[09:13] <koolhead17> Daviey, hi there
[09:13] <koolhead17> there are so many now THB
[09:14] <koolhead17> RoyK, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Linux_kernel_names
[09:14] <koolhead17> Pink Farting Weasel
[09:14] <koolhead17> hehe
[09:15] <RoyK> koolhead17: erm - yes :P
[09:15] <koolhead17> hello jamespage
[09:19] <jamespage> hi koolhead17
[09:26] <Daviey> koolhead17: hey
[09:26] <koolhead17> Daviey, https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/893466
[09:26] <koolhead17> :P
[09:26] <Daviey> koolhead17: ahha! thanks
[09:27] <koolhead17> so u need 2 have glance as well as quantum codes in order to have dashboard working
[09:28] <Daviey> koolhead17: Out of interest, what keystone are you using?
[09:29] <koolhead17> Daviey, the one from Github. :(
[09:29] <Daviey> koolhead17: Would you mind trying a PPA for me?
[09:29] <koolhead17> sure. right away
[09:30] <koolhead17> i need to know the PPA details i should add though :P
[09:30] <Daviey> koolhead17: Need to create it first :)
[09:30] <koolhead17> hehe
[09:30] <Daviey> koolhead17: will you be around for a few hours?
[09:30] <koolhead17> let me start a new VM to test this on oneiric
[09:30] <koolhead17> yes sure
[09:30] <koolhead17> till another 8 hrs
[09:30] <koolhead17> :d
[09:32] <Daviey> koolhead17: \o/
[09:40] <koolhead17> BTW http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/story/2011/11/21/technology-datawind-ubislate.html
[09:41] <koolhead17> cheapest tablet available :P
[09:44] <caribou> Q: Is there a specific procedure to have a package newly included in Debian/Sid also available in Universe ?
[09:46] <caribou> collectl, A very useful data collection tool recently made it to sid and could be handy for us as well
[09:46] <lynxman> caribou: you ask for a sync from debian
[09:46] <caribou> lynxman: who do I ask it to ?
[09:47] <lynxman> caribou: requestsync --lp -d debiandistro packagename ubuntudistro
[09:47] <lynxman> caribou: for example "requestsync --lp -d sid puppet precise"
[09:49] <caribou> cool, tanks lynxman
[09:50] <lynxman> caribou: np :)
[09:56] <caribou> lynxman: maybe I should have checked first, it's already there in precise :)
[09:57] <caribou> Daviey: I don't know if you remember me from UDS-P, I told you about some HP expertise center in Grenoble
[09:57] <Daviey> caribou: I think so, have a pic to hand?
[09:59] <Daviey> caribou: If it's a server related package, please send the bug number returned here; and we'll get it sponsored, thanks.
[09:59] <caribou> Daviey: no longer needed as I just said to lynxman it's already synced in precise
[10:00] <caribou> Daviey: Regarding the expertise center,I just wanted to let you know that I sent an email to my buddy regarding it
[10:03] <Daviey> ah great!
[10:07] <koolhead17> TeTeT, hello there
[10:08] <TeTeT> hi koolhead17
[10:08] <koolhead17> TeTeT, how have you been? long time. :D
[10:09] <TeTeT> koolhead17: doing ok, how about you?
[10:13] <koolhead17> TeTeT, am good. :D
[10:49] <caribou> I have a question regarding packaging
[10:49] <lynxman> caribou: shoot :)
[10:49] <caribou> I need to add a patch I made to the kexec-tools package for testing purposes
[10:49] <caribou> what would be the prefered way to do this ?
[10:49] <caribou> get the package source, add my patch to debian/patches & rebuild ?
[10:50] <caribou> (and to ./patches/00list as well)
[10:50] <lynxman> caribou: yeah, add to changelog to up the version, that's pretty much it (afaict)
[10:50] <caribou> ok, I'll try this out & come crying if I can't get it working :)
[10:51] <lynxman> caribou: good luck :)
[10:57] <koolhead17> *crying
[11:12] <lynxman> koolhead17: don't cry koolhead17
[11:22] <koolhead17> lynxman, just had chocolate so am better. :D
[11:25] <lynxman> koolhead17: good good :)
[11:34] <Vir> Hi, what error is behind "Waiting for network configuration..."? I.e. it waits for several minutes at boot with that message. And I have no idea how to fix it. There's one DHCP interface, the rest is static. The DHCP works fine. What could it be?
[11:54] <koolhead17> Vir, is the dynamic interface default one <eth0> ?
[11:54] <Vir> yes
[11:55] <Vir> koolhead17: why do you call it "default" BTW?
[11:56] <koolhead17> Vir, because i had similar problem when i was trying to use DHCP via cobbler
[11:57] <Vir> koolhead17: I looked into syslog and it shows that DHCP configuration takes about 10s
[11:57] <Vir> but on boot it shows "Waiting for network configuration ..." "Waiting up to 60 more seconds [...]"
[11:57] <koolhead17> Vir, can`t that be because of your DHCP server connectivity
[11:57] <Vir> koolhead17: what do you mean?
[11:58] <koolhead17> Vir, leasing time by dhcp server
[11:58] <Vir> koolhead17: dhclient: bound to <IP_ADDRESS> -- renewal in 1786 seconds.
[12:00] <Vir> this time syslog shows DHCP config took 5s. Bootup was stuck for 2 minutes at least
[12:01] <Vir> I don't understand this in any case. What DHCP servers require > 30s to answer?
[12:08] <Vir> OK, now to my real problem. Kernel 3.0.0 (Oneiric) doesn't boot: http://compeng.uni-frankfurt.de/~kretz/screenshot.png
[12:08] <Vir> it just hangs there
[12:09] <Vir> 2.6.38 and 2.6.32 boot (but with 2 minutes waiting for some network configuration that's all good already)
[12:11] <Vir> executing fsck from recovery boot now - but I just did that a few minutes earlier from the 2.6.38 kernel
[12:23] <Vir> finally found the problem: I used cgroups on that server before (for LXC) and had a line in /etc/fstab to mount it to /cgroups. Without this line the server can boot again.
[12:23] <Vir> This mount will be rather common on server installations - everybody that used LXC will have it.
[12:23] <Vir> All of those systems will break when they upgrade.
[12:38] <Vir> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libcgroup/+bug/893550
[12:48] <caribou> :q
[13:02] <koolhead17> Vir, cool :)
[13:02] <Vir> took me ~4h to find this - I hope others won't need this long now
[13:03] <koolhead17> Vir, +1
[13:35] <koolhead17> zul, hey
[13:37] <mmcji> At work I  have the job of installing several new dns servers.  These servers handle allot of dns traffic.  We already have an aging OpenBSD dns server, and several running on different versions of CentOS.  I have been using Ubuntu server for years at home and am more comfortable with it.  Is the default dns server that can be installed with ubuntu server suitable / secure for the enterprise environment.   Should it be chrooted?  I would rather use ubu
[13:37] <mmcji> ntu, but I hae to make a case for it vs say OpenBSD.
[13:50] <zul> Daviey: the keystone SRU test can be found at ppa:zulcss/openstack-updates
[13:50] <zul> morning btw
[13:51] <koolhead17> morning zul, is that pkg called python-crypto for keystone? You packaged recently
[13:52] <Daviey> jamespage: is https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-p-cloud-image-testing full drafted?
[13:52] <Daviey> fully*
[13:52] <Daviey> zul: great!
[13:52] <zul> koolhead17: no python passlib
[13:52] <koolhead17> ok
[13:53] <Daviey> jamespage: does https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-p-complex-deployment-testing need expanding?
[13:54] <Daviey> zul: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-p-openstack , some of the testing work items - should they be in the complex testing spec?
[13:54] <zul> Daviey: pehaps...yes
[13:55] <Daviey> zul: "Package weekly snapshots of" .. that probably needs to be split by week number, as it cannot be tracked currently.
[13:55] <zul> k
[13:57] <koolhead17> zul, is python-passlib in some PPA >
[13:57] <koolhead17> ?
[13:57] <zul> same pps
[13:57] <zul> ppa even
[13:59] <Daviey> zul: didn't that make it in as an SRU?
[13:59] <zul> Daviey: no it will when we upload keystone
[14:00] <Daviey> zul: is https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-p-arm-deployment deprecated with the next steps blueprint?
[14:00] <zul> yeah
[14:00] <Daviey> zul: probably wouldn't hurt for it to bake in th NEW queue first, as it'll require AA approval and SRU.
[14:01] <zul> passlib has already made it in for precise at least
[14:05] <Daviey> cool
[14:06] <Daviey> might not need AA review then, i guess
[14:10] <koolhead17> zul, sorry to ask but python-passlib solves the deps for pycrypto?
[14:10] <zul> koolhead17: it should...but what pycrypto stuff are you talking about?
[14:11] <koolhead17> zul, pycrypto is a package on which dashboard/quantum depands
[14:12] <zul> koolhead17: sure we arent talking about dashboard/quantum we are talking about keystone
[14:12] <koolhead17> zul, oops. am doing both at the moment :P
[14:13] <zul> Daviey: spec updated
[14:14] <koolhead17> zul, am trying to get dashboard working on oneiric from source and there is new pkg/deps called pycrypto. I got the pkg from easy install
[14:14] <zul> koolhead17: ah k
[14:15] <koolhead17> zul, am trying to get dash working by the time i get new keystone PPA :D
[14:15] <Daviey> zul: rocking
[14:36] <mmcji> what version of bind9 is installed on ubuntu server 11.10?
[14:37] <andol> mmcji: 9.7.3.dfsg-1ubuntu4.1
[14:39] <mmcji> andol: thanks, how do I find the version you just gave me?  What command do I use?  Do you know if this version is susceptible to the recent 0-day bind vulnerability?
[14:42] <rahmen> Hi! I'm not sure if this is more of a firewall problem. I've got a ubuntu server inside my network. I have an internal ip that works fine. On my firewall I try to redirect an external ip to the internal ip with NAT. When I ping I get 100% package loss. Do I have to enable the external ip somehow on the server? I was hoping it would answer as if it was an internal action
[14:42] <jdstrand> mmcji: bind9 is up to date as of last week: http://www.ubuntu.com/usn/usn-1264-1/
[14:42] <andol> mcpanda: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bind9 or apt-cache policy bind9 or zless /usr/share/doc/bind9/changelog.Debian.gz
[14:44] <andol> s/mcpanda/mmcji
[14:45] <mmcji> I just updated my dns server.
[14:46] <mmcji> andol: thanks
[14:46] <mmcji> jdstrand: thanks
[15:21] <JerryNJ> I need some assistance configuring LTSP if anyone can help. I know dhcpd is running atm and I need that turned off
[15:21] <JerryNJ> btw - im running Lucid with a single NIC
[15:40] <SpamapS> JerryNJ: man update-rc.d may be of help
[15:41] <JerryNJ> run that?
[15:42] <JerryNJ> that didnt do much exept explain the command
[15:45] <azertyii> hello there
[15:46] <azertyii> on hp server i can 't find /dev/sda
[15:46] <azertyii> is that normal ?
[15:46] <deej1976> azertyii: cat /proc/partitions | pastebinit
[15:47] <azertyii> http://paste.ubuntu.com/746029/ deej1976
[15:48] <koolhead17> grrrrrr http://pypi.python.org/ is taking break it seems
[15:48] <koolhead17> is it for others too?
[15:49] <deej1976> azertyii: Looks like cciss/c0d0 is your first disk
[15:49] <azertyii> what ?
[15:49] <azertyii> how it change the name ?
[15:50] <deej1976> http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/oneiric/man8/cciss_vol_status.8.html
[15:50] <azertyii> and also physically i just only have 2 physical disk, i can't understand why it gives 12 disk ?
[15:50] <deej1976> p1-11 are the paritions on the disks
[15:51] <just-a-visitor> http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/pypi.python.org
[15:52] <deej1976> azertyii: It's got a raid controller
[15:53] <deej1976> azertyii: sudo fdisk -l | pastebinit
[16:04] <koolhead17> why python-mysqldb not dependant on mysql-client ?
[16:04] <hk720> h
[16:04] <hk720> hi
[16:05] <hk720> is there anybody know how to add /dev/parport0
[16:11] <azertyii> ok understand deej1976
[16:16] <azertyii> thanks a lot
[16:33] <SpamapS> koolhead17: because python-mysqldb depends on libmysqlclient, mysql-client is the command line
[16:33] <SpamapS> koolhead17: Depends: python2.7, python (>= 2.7.1-0ubuntu2), python (<< 2.8), libc6 (>= 2.4), libmysqlclient16 (>= 5.1.50-1)
[16:35] <zul> SpamapS: hey just to fyi php is going to ftbfs because of mysql is multiarch now
[16:40] <smb> hallyn, So about bug 607039. Just want to make sure I am doing the right things. I think you saw the problem on Oneiric, too. While it seems to work for me on that release. Just the time it takes to complete a cat after mounting is oddly high (doing a direct mount)
[16:41] <smb> I used two VMs to test and have the nfs mount use a private net.
[16:42] <hallyn> smb, i've seen teh slow cat, i think on precise
[16:42] <hallyn> did i say in the bug that oneiric failed?  i can't recall offhand
[16:43] <hallyn> but at any rate, i think it's purely a nfs-client (userspace?) bug
[16:43] <hallyn> uh, the outright failure that is
[16:43] <hallyn> slow cat, might be somethign else
[16:43] <smb> hallyn, Hm, right I think I saw it there, too. But maybe less reliably. Yes, I think that is it
[16:43] <hallyn> do we have anyone specializing in nfs?
[16:43] <smb> Not that I know off my head
[16:44] <hallyn> then i guess it's us :)
[16:44] <smb> Likely :O)
[16:44] <smb> I was not sure whether it may or may not be related to the nfs4 kernel parts as well
[16:44] <hallyn> anyway i don't mind looking more into it, but all i know right now is in the bug report.
[16:45] <smb> Ok, just wanted to make sure I understand what exactly failed for you on oneiric
[16:45] <hallyn> if you want to set up a time to look at it together we can try that
[16:45] <hallyn> lemme re-read real quick
[16:45] <smb> Because I seemed to be successful
[16:46] <hallyn> ah, i see, maybe i didn't try oneiric!
[16:47] <smb> One confusing thing for me is that I thought with nfsv4 you would use / as the mount dir (which you set up with fsid=root in exports)
[16:47] <hallyn> no idea
[16:47] <hallyn> oh, right, 'mount -t nfs4' fails for me with -ENODEV on my oneiric laptop.
[16:48] <hallyn> so id idn't try the whoel autofs setup as there was no point at that point
[16:48] <smb> Ah ok
[16:48] <hallyn> bound to fail :)
[16:48] <smb> Yes, that I saw as well
[16:48] <hallyn> so if you'd like to assign that to me i don't mind digging deeper.  But it wouldn't be right now.
[16:48] <smb> I think that was the same on precise
[16:48] <hallyn> hm?  no it worked for me on precise
[16:48] <hallyn> (biab)
[16:50] <smb> hallyn, Ok, I think I will spend a bit more time on it and try to catch you tomorrow. Though it could be I am not around long enough... But I will put things into the report
[16:53] <SpamapS> zul: thanks for the heads up.. I expect a lot of FTBFS's ... I'll push it into my test PPA and hopefully have a fix on deck before the transition starts
[16:55] <hallyn> smb, thanks!
[16:56] <SpamapS> zul: note that 5.1 is multiarch now too. :)
[16:56] <zul> SpamapS: lovely
[17:00] <smb> hallyn, Grrr, it seems to be really unreliable. Right now direct mounts (not matter whether -t nfs or -t nfs4) work without any cat timeout. Looking at /proc/mounts there is no difference in option between -t nfs and nfs4. And I did not change anything...
[17:00] <smb> (oneiric that is)
[17:00] <hallyn> odd
[17:01] <SpamapS> argh
[17:01] <SpamapS> two weeks in a row I forgot that the meeting is now at 8:00am for me
[17:01] <smb> It brings a new meaning to daylight saving... :)
[17:34] <SpamapS> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mysql-5.5
[17:34] <SpamapS> w00t!
[17:56] <roaksoax> Daviey: so I fixed the cobbler lintian issues but lintian still complains
[17:56] <roaksoax> Daviey: but I think its safe to ignore
[17:59] <p1ruj3> so when i install a printer and it does the search for a network printer it ends up adding the local machines ip to hosts.deny on my samba server... when i remove that entry and restart denyhosts service i still cant connect from local machine but if i reboot i can
[17:59] <SpamapS> roaksoax: curious what its complaints are? Seems like lintian just gets more and more annoying. ;)
[18:00] <roaksoax> SpamapS: just about a license not having its paragraph
[18:00] <SpamapS> roaksoax: I have a fix for those
[18:00] <SpamapS> roaksoax: I think I wrote cobbler's copyright file.. and I used to write them wrong. ;)
[18:00] <SpamapS> roaksoax: branch?
[18:00] <roaksoax> SpamapS: http://paste.ubuntu.com/746171/
[18:01] <SpamapS> roaksoax: yeah, you have to add a License: GPL-2 without a Files: attached to it
[18:01] <roaksoax> SpamapS: lintian http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/746172/
[18:02] <SpamapS> roaksoax: or rather, License: GPL-2+
[18:02] <SpamapS> roaksoax: I had to do the same thing for mysql-5.5
[18:02] <roaksoax> SpamapS: right, but it is not complaining about others that are written the same
[18:02] <roaksoax> SpamapS: it complains about paragraph13, and other above it have the same format
[18:02] <roaksoax> and lintian does not complain about it
[18:03] <roaksoax> that's why I rearranged all the GPL-2+ one after the other cause the lintian complain is about one of them
[18:04] <roaksoax> ah I think where the issue is now
[18:04] <SpamapS> roaksoax: you either have to have a paragraph after *every* mention of License: GPL-2+ , or a standalone License: GPL-2+ with no files attached to it that has the paragraph
[18:06] <SpamapS> roaksoax: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~clint-fewbar/ubuntu/precise/mysql-5.5/merge-from-ddebian/revision/40
[18:06] <SpamapS> roaksoax: see the change on copyright.. same exact issue
[18:06] <roaksoax> let me try it
[18:08] <roaksoax> SpamapS: yep, now';s fixed
[18:08] <roaksoax> SpamapS: thanks for the tip
[18:13] <SpamapS> roaksoax: any time I can give someone tips on how to fix a bug I created.. I'm fine with that. :)
[18:15] <roaksoax> ;)
[18:16] <hallyn> stgraber, despite my assigning bug 893550 to you and asking for feedback, I think I'll go ahead and just make /etc/init/cgroup-lite.conf do a 'stop; exit 0' if it sees an (uncommented) cgroup entry in /etc/fstab
[18:34] <tarvid> freeradius and freeradius-dialupadmin do not play well together
[18:34] <tarvid> the schema for freeradius defines a table radusergroup
[18:34] <tarvid> dialupadmin looks for a table usergroup
[18:35] <tarvid> do I start patching dialupadmin?
[18:37] <Nuc134rB0t> Hello I'm following the https://help.ubuntu.com/10.04/serverguide/C/dns-configuration.html at the moment I'm creating the db.192 as told, copying db.127  "sudo cp /etc/bind/db.127 /etc/bind/db.192" now, at the bottom of my db.127 there is a 1.0.0 IN PTR localhost. but in the example in the guide, you can see there is a 10 IN PTR ns.example.com. so what do I replace the 10 or 1.0.0 to? My local IP? My external IP?
[18:41] <stgraber> hallyn: sounds good
[18:46] <tarvid> Nuc134rB0t, You could use a PTR record for every interface on your local lan
[18:47] <tarvid> reverse on the local lan is not a necessity but if can speed up operations that want to reverse things like arp
[18:48] <mterry> Hey, server folk!  keystone is involved in a few component-mismatches: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.txt    Ideally two things would happen: (A) you guys start filing MIRs for the components you need in main (B) except for python-sqlite which will not enter main.  I can't seem to find anywhere in the code where you import it.  Is that a necessary depends at all?
[18:48] <Nuc134rB0t> tarvid, oh ok, so that means I will still broadcast my website if this is missed configured
[18:50] <zul> mterry: hi...keystone has a MIR that is process
[18:51] <SpamapS> zul: can you spare a panda board for me to do some test rebuilds of mysql 5.5 ?
[18:51] <hallyn> stgraber, oh ffs, i guess libcgroup isn't in server set, i can't upload it
[18:52] <SpamapS> zul: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/85702840/buildlog_ubuntu-precise-armel.mysql-5.5_5.5.17-4ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz  .. I'm guessing there will be more of these failures
[18:52] <SpamapS> (0 needs to be NULL, I think)
[18:52] <hallyn> stgraber, would you have time to upload this?  (it's pretty trivial)  http://people.canonical.com/~serge/cgroup.debdiff
[18:52] <tarvid> Nuc134rB0t, yes if it has a public ip address reachable from the Internet
[18:52] <zul> SpamapS:  you know there are porter machines right?
[18:52] <SpamapS> no
[18:53] <zul> SpamapS: yeah
[18:53] <SpamapS> this is my first armel rodeo
[18:53] <hallyn> jinkeys nautilus is really upset with me
[18:53] <tarvid> But the forward file must work
[18:53] <mterry> zul, can you add its depends as tasks in that MIR?   Also, do you know the deal with python-sqlite in keystone?
[18:53] <zul> mterry:  it uses a database for a backend
[18:54] <zul> ill check though
[18:54] <Nuc134rB0t> tarvid, it does so far, but I'm following the whole guide to see if it is possible to change the IP for a decent domain name.
[18:54] <mterry> I couldn't grep for the import anywhere
[18:54] <zul> mterry: grrr
[18:55] <tarvid> Nuc134rB0t, your IP is issued by your ISP and your domain name must be registered, are you dynamically assigned (DHCP)?
[18:56] <Nuc134rB0t> tarvid, yes I am.
[18:58] <micahg> hallyn: it's in universe still
[18:58] <tarvid> You can't run DNS on a dynamic address so relax and find a workaround, http://dyn.com has worked for me
[18:59] <hallyn> micahg, oh, i didn't realize server set was restricted to things in main.  drat.  thanks.
[19:00] <micahg> hallyn: AFAIK, it's auto-generated from the seed
[19:00] <tarvid> It looks like they want money now so you may have to look around
[19:01] <hallyn> zoneedit has worked for me for years
[19:01] <tarvid> My free account still works
[19:01] <hallyn> micahg, thx
[19:01] <Nuc134rB0t> tarvid, oh!... I'll have to look for a service a can pay with local coin because I don't have easy access to dollars
[19:02] <Nuc134rB0t> tarvid, by the way, thanks.
[19:04] <tarvid> You are welcome. There are many dyndns providers. They accept updates from your interface when DHCP changes
[19:04] <hallyn> does anyone here have an amd box on which they could try kvm of 64-bit linux on top of oneiric?
[19:05] <tarvid> running 11.10 on 11.10 with virtualbox
[19:06] <PedroGomes> Hi, I'm trying to do an unattended install ubuntu with PXE but it stops saying that the hardware needs non-free firmaware. Any advice in how to avoid this ?
[19:08] <SpamapS> PedroGomes: there's a pre-seed option you can fill in that will answer that question
[19:09] <genii-around> Like a post-install directive that installs whatever non-free package to /target
[19:10] <PedroGomes> err, the problem is that it says that the file must be loaded from somewhere else
[19:11] <PedroGomes> but the pre-seed option would do the trick
[19:11] <PedroGomes> thanks
[19:12] <PedroGomes> I guess I have no means of avoiding the pxe templates  :P
[19:35] <RoAkSoAx> Daviey: adam_g should we drop the import of Hardy by orchestra-import-isos?
[19:37] <SpamapS> can we even install hardy?
[19:38] <SpamapS> RoAkSoAx: I think as long as its supported our releases should support installing it.
[19:51] <RoAkSoAx> SpamapS: ok ;)
[20:07] <Daviey> RoAkSoAx: yeah, agree with SpamapS
[20:10] <RoAkSoAx> ok
[20:11] <Daviey> RoAkSoAx: Is there something we can do to allow the admin to add future releases themselves?
[20:11] <Daviey> It would kinda suck to SRU a "enable new release".
[20:13] <koolhead17> zul: are you looking for someone to test the newly built keystone PPA
[20:14] <soren> Daviey: We do it all the time for debootstrap.
[20:15] <Daviey> soren: Yes, but this has added complexity.
[20:16] <Daviey> If debootstrap SRU fails, we hinder a developer, right?
[20:16] <Daviey> If orchestra SRU fails... :)
[20:16] <RoAkSoAx> Daviey: cobbler-ubuntu-import
[20:17] <Daviey> RoAkSoAx: you think it will be ok to do that?
[20:17] <RoAkSoAx> Daviey: yeah smoser adding cobbler-ubuntu-import to cobbler last cycle
[20:17] <Daviey> soren: Well if the TB supports doing that, we'll do it :)
[20:17] <soren> Daviey: If there's complexity involved, I wonder how you'd anticipate said complexity (to avoid the SRU).
[20:17] <RoAkSoAx> Daviey: and you can import a new release by simply: cobbler-ubuntu-import precise-i386
[20:18] <Daviey> ok
[20:21] <adam_g> or by adding it to RELEASES in /etc/orchestra/import_isos
[20:22] <adam_g> but new releases also need to be added to cobbler, otherwise the end up as unknown distro "breeds"
[20:43] <raubvogel> Can anyone explain me the deal with <IP_ADDRESS>? How is it used? Must I have the hostname for a machine using dhcp associated with that IP always?
[20:44] <RoAkSoAx> raubvogel: <IP_ADDRESS> is an IP address reserved to identify the network card
[20:44] <RoAkSoAx> raubvogel: or localhost
[20:45] <raubvogel> RoAkSoAx: I thought that was <IP_ADDRESS>
[20:46] <RoAkSoAx> raubvogel: its for the localhost
[20:47] <RoAkSoAx> raubvogel: http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch05.en.html#_the_hostname_resolution
[21:18] <raubvogel> RoAkSoAx: I do not remember seeing that in, say, centos. I would have expected to have the machine's IP with the FQDN but I see the reasoning behind that. It almost works as the Solaris hostname.interface
[21:20] <RoAkSoAx> raubvogel: debian specific
[21:20] <semiosis> i'm following the instructions here https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UEC/Images to run an Oneiric cloud image KVM guest on my local Oneiric workstation, but I am getting access denied with the ubuntu/passw0rd credentials from those instructions.  please help
[21:20] <RoAkSoAx> semiosis: ubuntu/ubuntu?
[21:21] <semiosis> denied
[21:21] <semiosis> ubuntu/password also denied
[21:21] <semiosis> is there a more recommended way of running a VM on my workstation than this?
[21:22] <RoAkSoAx> smoser: ^^
[21:22] <semiosis> instructions seem straightforward enough, but then the cloudimage denies me
[21:22] <semiosis> thanks RoAkSoAx
[21:22] <RoAkSoAx> semiosis: he would be able to help you ;)
[21:23] <semiosis> smoser is a legend :)
[21:24] <RoAkSoAx> hehe
[21:47] <Daviey> Does someone want to rebase, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nova/2011.3-0ubuntu6.1 for SRU?
[21:48] <Daviey> (it was superseeded by a security upload)
[21:49] <Daviey> Hmm, although, it might need merging with https://launchpad.net/~zulcss/+archive/openstack-updates/+sourcepub/2080480/+listing-archive-extra
[21:49] <Daviey> probably best wait for zul.
[21:57] <Ursinha> Daviey: hellooooooooooo
[21:57] <Ursinha> when should I expect you to be free? It's pretty late for you, isn't it?
[21:57] <Daviey> hey Ursinha
[21:58] <koolhead17> phewwww
[21:58] <koolhead17> Ursinha: hellos
[21:59] <Daviey> Yeah, what time are you likely going to be online tomorrow?  UTC?
[22:00] <Ursinha> hello koolhead17
[22:00] <Ursinha> Daviey: let me do the maths
[22:00] <Ursinha> Daviey: 15utc
[22:03] <Daviey> Ursinha: ok, thanks
[23:25] <kees> SpamapS: okay, I've got a funny one for you. in oneiric, my desktop was hitting the "waiting for networks" thing. I had two left over "auto" entries that weren't present on the system any more (from a USB dongle). eth5 and eth5.3 (vlan on eth5). for some reason, /var/run/ifup.eth5 exists, but not ifup.eth5.3 :P
[23:37] <lenios> kees, oh, i have the "waiting for network", is it because of the auto on unused interfaces?
[23:38] <lenios> i'll need to test tomorrow
[23:39] <lenios> i had no problem with 11.04 though
[23:51] <kees> lenios_: right, it means that something from /etc/network/interfaces that is marked "auto" has not come up yet.
[23:53] <twb> Or "allow-auto", for which auto is only shorthand


[00:43] <snap-l> rick_h_: Bah
[00:43] <rick_h_> snap-l: party pooper
[00:44] <snap-l> rick_h_: har har
[01:16] <rick_h_> jcastro: http://www.outflux.net/blog/archives/2011/12/05/ec2-instances-in-support-of-a-bsp/
[01:18] <rick_h_> jjesse: chilling in your fancy room?
[01:18] <jjesse> yes sir
[01:19] <jjesse> the JW Marriott is probably the nicest hotel setup I've been in
[01:19] <rick_h_> nice
[01:19] <jjesse> they treat you very nice and status helps :)
[01:24] <jjesse> rick_h_, you hanging out by yourself?
[01:24] <rick_h_> jjesse: was, trying to see if I do hang outs when chilling hacking on bookie anyone stops by :)
[01:24] <jjesse> ah
[01:31] <_stink_> just checked for your hangout, rick_h_
[01:31] <_stink_> don't see it
[01:31] <_stink_> maybe i'm g+ handicapped
[01:31] <rick_h_> _stink_: heh, well it's gone now
[01:31] <rick_h_> I closed up, about to head offline
[01:32] <rick_h_> do I not have you in a circle _stink_ ?
[01:32] <rick_h_> oh, you're in ther
[01:32] <rick_h_> there
[01:32] <_stink_> rick_h_: "You are in Rick Harding's circles too"
[01:32] <_stink_> gotcha
[01:32] <_stink_> was just going to drop in and bug you :)
[01:32] <rick_h_> so started one
[01:32] <rick_h_> just to test you see it
[01:32] <_stink_> about time for kid's bed now :P
[01:33] <_stink_> yep
[01:33] <rick_h_> ok cool
[01:33] <_stink_> gah
[01:33] <_stink_> stupid plugin install
[01:33] <_stink_> some other time :)
[01:33] <rick_h_> yea
[01:33] <_stink_> rick_h_: you still away?
[01:34] <rick_h_> not yet
[01:34] <rick_h_> trying to finish this glass of wine first :)
[01:35] <_stink_> rick_h_: er, i meant out of town
[01:35] <rick_h_> oh, no. back in town
[01:35] <_stink_> unless that's what you meant too :)
[01:35] <rick_h_> no, thought you were asking if I was afk yet
[01:36] <_stink_> yeah, i am good at being ambiguous.
[01:36] <rick_h_> got back this weekend, so back to normal for dec
[01:36] <_stink_> rick_h_: is it nice to reclaim your full working from home schedule?
[01:36] <rick_h_> meh, it's mixed
[01:37] <rick_h_> I liked the balanced schedule
[01:37] <rick_h_> but it's nice not to have to commute/run the dog to puppy day care on Tues/etc
[01:37] <_stink_> yeah
[01:37] <_stink_> http://theoatmeal.com/comics/working_home
[01:37] <_stink_> you've probably seen that
[01:37] <rick_h_> yea, good stuff
[02:04] <jrwren> i don't know if i should feel happy, or dirty. i wrote a objc on linux today.
[02:10] <rick_h_> jrwren: I vote dirty
[02:19] <snap-l> I'm doing a presentation for MUG on a brief history of UNIX
[02:19] <jrwren> how brief?
[02:19] <snap-l> jrwren: Definitely dirty
[02:19] <snap-l> 40 minutes
[02:19] <snap-l> going to do some show and tell.
[02:19] <jrwren> wow, a real snoozer. :p
[02:20] <jrwren> objc is nice once you get passed the craziness of it.
[02:20] <snap-l> jrwren: I'll make it entertaining and worth your while
[03:02] <dzho> snap-l: http://crackmonkey.org/unix.html
[04:08] <snap-l> dzho: Thank you. That's jst the sort of thing that I'm looking for
[12:36] <rick_h_> morning party people
[12:37] <brousch> you're chipper
[12:37] <rick_h_> couple of good nights sleep in my own bed has me in better spirits
[12:38] <brousch> it can do that
[12:54] <mydogsname1srudy> morning to ya
[12:55] <brousch> mydogsname1srudy: how often do you eat pasties?
[13:02] <mydogsname1srudy> ah not much ;) dont care for them  , but i do like venison
[13:03] <brousch> that's disappointing
[13:03] <mydogsname1srudy> ah they are a bit dry need to have more juice in them ;)
[13:04] <brousch> add gravy!
[13:04] <jjesse> everything is better w/ gravy :)
[13:04] <mydogsname1srudy> ya that works but i like gravy on frys
[13:05] <brousch> ew
[13:05] <mydogsname1srudy> what ?
[13:06] <brousch> fries need salt, pepper, and vinegar, not gravy
[13:06] <mydogsname1srudy> heh its a yooper thing i guess
[13:06] <rick_h_> psh, they need A1 mixed with ketchup
[13:07] <mydogsname1srudy> lol
[13:07] <brousch> arby's sauce and horsey sauce are also acceptable
[13:07] <rick_h_> arby's is evil, the only reason I stop there is that I need to hit up some arby's sauce
[13:08] <brousch> i'm addicted to horsey
[13:08] <rick_h_> though I think the only reason I get qdoba is because I want to use my tenessee sunshine
[13:08] <rick_h_> ugh, never liked horsey crap
[13:08] <mydogsname1srudy> hotbeaf with frys and gravy
[13:08] <brousch> what's hotbeef?
[13:08] <mydogsname1srudy> yep
[13:08] <brousch> what's tenessee sunshine?
[13:09] <brousch> what's taters, precious? what's taters?
[13:09] <rick_h_> http://www.redbagcollection.com/tennesseesunshine.html
[13:09] <mydogsname1srudy> what's monkeyjuice
[13:09] <rick_h_> the best taco sauce out there
[13:09] <rick_h_> tonight is taco night, just so I can use the sauce
[13:09] <rick_h_> can't find it in stores around here, so every new year I order a box
[13:09] <mydogsname1srudy> tonite is tater soup nite
[13:10] <brousch> ah, i use tapatio
[13:10] <rick_h_> brousch: remind me next event, I'll bring you a bottle :)
[13:10] <brousch> better than cholula
[13:11] <brousch> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gn4aHkOS2Q0
[13:12] <rick_h_> it's too early in the morning for that stuff
[13:13] <brousch> we go to qdoba for the queso
[13:13] <brousch> this is the biggest reason that chipotle sucks
[13:34] <Wolfger> morning
[13:36] <Wolfger> Heh... Old news, but Slackware release version 13.37
[13:36] <Wolfger> that right there makes me want to install it
[13:48] <snap-l> Good morning
[15:20] <Wolfger> wow. snap-l knows how to stun a room into silence... ;-)
[15:20] <snap-l> yep
[15:21] <_stink_> no one challenged rick_h_ on his assertion that Arby's is evil?
[15:21] <_stink_> expensive, sure
[15:21] <jrwren> Arby's Roast Beef Sandwitch Is Delicious
[15:22] <_stink_> jrwren++
[15:22] <jrwren> I miss their old signs.
[15:22] <brousch> beef-n-cheddar slathered with horsey sauce nomnom
[15:23] <jrwren> and I still love it when I see an old store with an old sign.
[15:23] <_stink_> haha
[15:23] <jrwren> even more so if it is dark and the lights are on but some bulbs are missing.
[15:23] <_stink_> A  y s
[15:25] <The_Machine> "I'm so hungry, I could eat at Arby's!"  ~Marge Simpson
[15:28] <snap-l> The only reason anyone loves Arbys is because of the Horsy Sauce
[15:29] <snap-l> seriously, that stuff is like crack
[15:29]  * snap-l has a bunch in his fridge.
[15:30] <_stink_> hah
[15:30] <_stink_> do you acquire it legally?
[15:30] <snap-l> Yes
[15:34] <brousch> you didn't hijack a truck?
[15:34] <snap-l> Not yet.
[15:34] <snap-l> But I ear the first hits are free
[15:35] <_stink_> i was thinking the dash-in-fill-up-some-teeny-paper-cups-then-run method
[15:35] <brousch> that doesn't sound sanitary
[15:42] <Wolfger> _stink_: challenging rick_h_ is problematic, even when he's horribly wrong, as he is in his assertion of Arby's
[15:47] <_stink_> well, i'm glad that rick_h_ is on his own here.
[15:48] <rick_h_> more for the rest of you :P
[15:56] <brousch> digikam, i love you. i am deleting 8000 photos from my 64,000 which are just face crops generated by iphoto
[15:57] <rick_h_> are they not named in some common way you could just find | rm
[15:58] <brousch> it turns out they are
[15:58] <brousch> but i didn't notice because they are all mixed in with the other 64,000 photos
[15:58] <brousch> digikam's advanced search and filter let me figure that out
[15:58] <snap-l> brousch: NIce.
[16:00] <Wolfger> digikam and k3b are two reasons KDE rules
[16:00] <brousch> another nice thing is i have my droid and nook autoupload photos to specific folders via ubuntuone. digikam can then include those folders without moving the photos
[16:00] <ColonelPanic001> <3 KDE
[16:01] <brousch> dolphin is much faster than nautilus for the same sftp connections
[16:02] <brousch> digikam is using an assload of ram, but that's probably because i have so many damn photos
[16:03] <brousch> using 1.5G right now
[16:12] <rick_h_> psh, that's a kneeload, it's got a ways to go before a##load :P
[16:12] <brousch> when i start with 4G, 1.5G is an assload
[16:13] <rick_h_> oh, well you didn't say you were running a "little person" in your ram levels
[16:14] <brousch> :P
[16:14] <brousch> i could switch to the macbook pro for 8GB
[16:15] <snap-l> brousch: What are you using? A laptop?
[16:15] <brousch> always
[16:15] <snap-l> brousch: that's your problem right there.
[16:15] <snap-l> You need a nice, reliable desktop machine. :)
[16:15] <brousch> desktops are dead
[16:15] <snap-l> portability be damned.
[16:15] <jrwren>  "I'm so hungry, I could eat at Arby's!"  ~Marge Simpson
[16:15] <jrwren>  "I'm so hungry, I could eat at Arby's!"  ~Marge Simpson
[16:15] <jrwren> IIRC that wasn't marge.
[16:15] <brousch> next step will be cloud server and tablet
[16:15] <jrwren> it was one of the next door neighbor kids.
[16:16] <jrwren> and the next door neighbor mom says "Wow, she really is hungry"
[16:16] <jrwren> but I might recall wrong.
[16:16] <brousch> there are no girls living next door to the simpsons
[16:16] <jrwren> yes, but those boys sound like girls and look like girls and act girlie.
[16:17] <jrwren> try fspot instead of digikam and note the ram usage.
[16:18] <brousch> http://www.chefsuccess.com/f18/favorite-simpsons-quotes-honor-movie-23468/
[16:18] <snap-l> fspot is a dog
[16:18] <brousch> fspot failed to index my 64,000 photos without repeated crashes
[16:18] <snap-l> Happier with shotwell for my needs.
[16:18] <snap-l> brousch: ++
[16:19] <brousch> shotwell worked, but doesn't have all these nifty features i need to prune my library
[16:19] <snap-l> F-spot may have contribued to me taking less photos
[16:21] <brousch> i liked fspot a few years ago
[16:27] <snap-l> Yeah, F-Spot isn't horrd, but it's has some definite stability issues.
[16:42] <Wolfger> No. No, F-Spot is horrid. You're wrong.
[17:05] <greg-g> I'm trying to decide if I stay with shotwell or go back to f-spot
[17:05] <greg-g> got the new DSLR so I think I care about features now
[17:06] <greg-g> at least, I'm supposed to, right?
[17:07] <Wolfger> It's not good enough to be able to -1 a post on p.se... I want the ability to administer a slap to the face of the poster.
[17:08] <rick_h_> greg-g: you're supposed to be getting a mac now and a license of lightroom
[17:08] <Wolfger> Nautilus and GIMP is all you need :-p
[17:09] <Wolfger> or, you know, digikam. :-D
[17:09] <snap-l> Love reading the Perl hate in the SQLAlchemy channel
[17:10] <rick_h_> heh, well we are python folks :)
[17:10] <snap-l> One gu is bitching about the mess the CPAN has become
[17:10] <dzho> has become?
[17:10] <snap-l> Which, I agree, but seriously, CPAN is old. :)
[17:10] <rick_h_> is there a new package tool in perl everyone is using?
[17:11] <dzho> sagi ;-)
[17:12] <greg-g> rick_h_: oh right, I forgot :/
[17:12] <rick_h_> greg-g: keep working on it, you're out west now, surely the hipster will start to seep in soon
[17:13] <rick_h_> greg-g: repeat after me "I could never use that functionally superiour thinkpad...it's...so...ugly? And no giant glass trackpad"
[17:14] <rick_h_> oops, superior damn I ruined the effect
[17:17] <greg-g> rick_h_: my mind automagically fixed the typo/spelling mistake :)
[17:17] <greg-g> rick_h_: and my lord, being out here is making my anti-hipster tendencies to be amplified, not nullified
[17:18] <rick_h_> greg-g: heh, rebel against the new norm?
[17:18] <greg-g> actually, hah, I think I am
[17:18] <greg-g> in A2 I had my Chrome bag, rode a fixie, had my bike lock in my back pocket, drank PBR
[17:18] <_stink_> now?
[17:18] <greg-g> here, I using paniers and drinking better beer
[17:19] <greg-g> oh, and a geared bike
[17:19] <rick_h_> heh, ok because I've not understood the fixies
[17:19] <_stink_> :O
[17:19] <rick_h_> so at least that makes more sense to me
[17:20] <greg-g> hehe, I still like the idea of fixies, but man, my commute from home to caltrain and back is hilly, I like the extra gears
[17:20] <rick_h_> yea, exactly
[17:20] <greg-g> (simplicity, more like driving a manual vs automatic)
[17:20] <rick_h_> they're there for a reason
[17:20] <greg-g> (that paren up there was me listing things I like about fixies, if not obvious)
[17:31] <Wolfger> fixies are for stunts
[17:31] <snap-l> I rode a fixie
[17:31] <snap-l> then my dad said I was too big for that bike. :)
[17:31] <Wolfger> you can get a single-gear bike that isn't a fixie, but multiple gears are nice
[17:32] <snap-l> Do they all brake when you pedal backward? :)
[17:32] <Wolfger> uh, no
[17:32] <Wolfger> with a fixie, if you pedal backward you go backward
[17:33] <snap-l> See, that makes sense. :)
[17:33] <Wolfger> about as much sense as pedaling backwards does...
[17:34] <Wolfger> I've seen some really awesome stunt riding with fixies. Can't imagine anybody wanting one for transportation though.
[17:37] <greg-g> I've never seen a kid ride a fixie, I seen kids ride coaster brake bikes
[17:37] <snap-l> er, yeah. :)
[17:49] <Wolfger> single-gear != fixie, although fixies are single-gear
[17:50]  * greg-g nods
[17:50] <greg-g> like a rectangle and square
[18:08] <brousch> greg-g: try digikam. you can use it in gnome
[18:08] <brousch> many more features compared to gnome or shotwell
[18:08] <brousch> fspot
[18:41] <snap-l> Figured out why fail2ban wasn't kocking this chucklefuck off my system's sshd
[18:42] <snap-l> but added a iptables rule to just kick it off until next reboot
[18:47] <brousch> https://market.android.com/details?id=apps_timed_promotion
[18:47] <snap-l> Nice
[18:47] <snap-l> Too bad the B&N nook store doesn't participate. :)
[18:48] <brousch> d00d. install CM7
[18:48] <brousch> do not live in the sad little B&N app store
[18:53] <rick_h_> is the nook its own app store like the amazon one?
[18:53] <rick_h_> I didn't realize that I guess
[18:53] <snap-l> Yes
[18:53] <snap-l> and it's pretty limited
[18:53]  * snap-l will bring it to CHC this Wed.
[18:54] <rick_h_> hmm, so do people submit their apps like they do amazon?
[18:54] <snap-l> not sure how it works.
[18:54] <rick_h_> I've just not run into anyone with "I'm submitting my app to the google market, amazon app store, B&N empty shelves"
[18:56] <brousch> rick_h_: yeah
[18:56] <brousch> but has like 100 apps
[22:26] <greg-g> http://blog.pinboard.in/2011/12/don_t_be_a_free_user/ Discuss
[22:44] <snap-l> Burning cash is not just the domain of free apps, lots of paid apps burn cash just as easily
[22:45] <snap-l> Also, one life-changing event can put you completely out of business (like, oh, I don't know, your server evaporating in an FBI raid)
[22:47] <snap-l> so, while I agree that if you love it, pay for it, that's not enough to keep stupid business decisions afloat.
[22:48] <snap-l> YMMV
[22:48] <snap-l> greg-g: ^^
[22:48] <greg-g> snap-l: good start, anyone else?
[22:48] <greg-g> ;)
[22:49] <greg-g> j/k
[22:49] <greg-g> so, yeah, I agree, pay for the things you like is a good mantra, just be careful about the things you like, I guess
[22:49] <snap-l> Well, don't think that it's some magic ward against service-evaporation
[22:50] <snap-l> Sandy was a good example. IIRC, people were willing to pay for it, but the company got bought out, and the service was discontinued.
[22:52] <greg-g> I didn't know about Sandy, interesting
[22:52] <snap-l> I was a user
[22:52] <greg-g> yeah, so, right, just because your for-pay doesn't mean you won't be bought out and discontinued
[22:52] <greg-g> s/your/you're/
[22:52] <snap-l> Exactly
[22:52] <snap-l> Isn't that what happened to Gowalla?
[22:52]  * greg-g shrugs
[22:53] <greg-g> does gowalla no longer work?
[22:54] <snap-l> http://www.salon.com/2011/12/05/facebook_hires_gowalla_team_will_shut_it_down/


[07:21] <icey> any chance the native zfs encryption will be merged for Bionic? the PR was merged into zfsonlinux/zfs in August and I'd love to get that support in


[00:00] <mdke> comes from the CC memberhsip I think
[00:00] <mdke> Matthew East  → Ubuntu Community Council  → Kubuntu Members  → Kubuntu Bugs  → Kubuntu Users
[00:01] <mdke> slightly odd structure, but still
[00:04] <dsas_> mdke: my ubuntu membership has recently lapsed. Is there a process to follow to get it renewed?
[00:05] <mdke> dsas_: it's autorenewable, but I think if it lapses, perhaps you lose that opportunity
[00:05] <mdke> I'll just readd you
[00:06] <dsas_> mdke: I kept putting off renewing myself and now I can't as I'm not a member.
[00:06] <dsas_> mdke: thanks
[00:06] <mdke> done
[01:02] <saketh> hi
[01:02] <saketh> does anyone know how I can find out who my mentor is?
[01:03] <saketh> hello?
[01:03] <philip_> mentor for what?
[01:05] <saketh> for the doc mentor program...
[01:05] <saketh> i dont have an account
[01:05] <saketh> and i kinda wanna upload something
[01:05] <saketh> to the launchpad repos
[01:05] <philip_> sorry, i don't know how that works
[01:06] <saketh> thanx anway
[01:06] <saketh> also,
[01:06] <saketh> where can i go to find a good tutorial on docbook?
[01:07] <nhandler> saketh: http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/DocBookTutorials
[01:07] <saketh> thanx
[01:07] <nhandler> As for the mentoring program, it is currently dead. It will be discussed at the meeting this weekend
[01:07] <saketh> so...
[01:07] <saketh> when?
[01:07] <nhandler> If you have a patch that you would like uploaded, attach it to a bug, and paste the URL here
[01:07] <nhandler> saketh: #ubuntu-meeting on Saturday
[01:07] <saketh> thank you
[01:07] <saketh> ok...
[01:07] <saketh> tahnx
[01:07] <nhandler> It is on the fridge: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar
[01:10] <saketh> w8...
[01:10] <saketh> 7pm to 8pm UTC?
[01:11] <saketh> hello?
[01:14] <nhandler> That is correct saketh
[01:14] <nhandler> And please be patient. Just because someone does not respond to you right away does not mean that they are ignoring you
[01:14] <saketh> ok sorry
[01:16] <philip_> irc is an idle friendly form of communication... we should assume people get up and do other things at any time
[01:16] <saketh> mhm
[01:17] <nhandler> (or are attempting to participate in too many IRC channels while using a horrible irc client that does not let him easily see when a channel has a new message)
[01:18] <saketh> mhm
[01:18] <philip_> :)
[01:18] <saketh> i probably can stay untilt he meeting is over but i m not sure...
[01:19] <saketh> How do u change the text u r typing in and all that other cool stuff?
[01:19] <philip_> well, i'd say most people don't change fonts or use colors
[01:20] <philip_> i assume you are talking via your irc client?
[01:20] <saketh> mhm
[01:20] <philip_> because there are roughly a zillion irc clients it's difficult to say for sure :)
[01:20] <saketh> ur text turned red when u said that is correct saketh
[01:20] <saketh> and i m using xchat
[01:21] <philip_> often times irc clients will highlight lines in irc when your username is contained within
[01:21] <philip_> like everything, it can  be configured, so play with your software and have it do whatever you want... we don't see it
[01:21] <saketh> mhm
[01:21] <saketh> thanx
[01:22] <philip_> does the string 'mhm' indicate you are thinking? :)
[01:22] <saketh> it just means taht i m listening
[01:22] <saketh> we use taht a lot in chat
[01:23] <saketh> i m kinda new to the docs team, so i m just figuring things out
[01:23] <philip_> for channels like this, people tend to use the least amount of noise as possible
[01:23] <saketh> ok
[01:23] <saketh> like how to use bzr
[01:23] <saketh> and launchpad
[01:23] <saketh> its so complicated
[01:23] <saketh> i like svn better
[01:23] <philip_> that's because you've already learned svn
[01:24] <saketh> i guess...
[01:24] <saketh> ???
[01:24] <saketh> i dont understand waht u r saying
[01:24] <philip_> i understand only half of what i say
[01:24] <saketh> waht is CTCP?
[01:25] <saketh> oops
[01:25] <saketh> taht didnt come from u
[01:25] <philip_> ask google
[01:25] <saketh> srry...
[01:25] <philip_> typically in irc people do not use the return key as punctuation
[01:26] <saketh> hmm?
[01:26] <philip_> you know
[01:26] <philip_> stuff like
[01:26] <philip_> this
[01:26] <saketh> oh
[01:26] <saketh> sorry
[01:26] <philip_> :)
[01:26] <saketh> thats just the wa i caht in im
[01:26] <saketh> anyway...
[01:27] <saketh> how would I upload a fix that i made using bzr to launchpad?
[01:27] <philip_> you would create a patch and send it to the mailing list
[01:27] <saketh> how do i make a patch?
[01:28] <philip_> saketh: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/SystemDocumentation/Submitting
[01:29] <saketh> i already read that
[01:29] <saketh> i didnt understand it
[01:30] <philip_> it has "bzr diff > diffname.tx"
[01:30] <philip_> 'bzr diff' is a command, that will create a diff (a patch)
[01:30] <philip_> like in svn
[01:30] <philip_> the '> diffname.txt' means it sends the output (the diff) to that filename
[01:31] <saketh> ok
[01:31] <saketh> i get it now...
[01:31] <saketh> thanx
[01:32] <philip_> i've never head of "bzr bundle" but it looks interesting
[01:36] <saketh> mhm
[01:36] <saketh> oops
[01:36] <saketh> sorry
[01:36] <saketh> well...
[01:36] <saketh> i gotta go...
[01:36] <saketh> tahnx
[01:36] <saketh> bye!
[01:37] <philip_> :)
[02:25] <Rocket2DMn> my word mdke , he basically cleaned out CategoryDocumentation
[02:25] <Rocket2DMn> mdke, he is not "one of my soldiers" :)
[02:26] <Rocket2DMn> that is to say, he is not from the Beginners Team, I have no idea who he is
[02:40] <nhandler> Rocket2DMn: He says he is part of the NY LoCo. Maybe cprofitt knows him
[02:40] <Rocket2DMn> quite possible nhandler
[02:45] <fooka> nhandler: i just noticed you were talking about me
[02:46] <fooka> nhandler: am the guy who worked on CategoryDocumentation pages
[02:47] <nhandler> fooka: I know (I looked at your LP page). We just didn't know who you were and noticed you did a lot of work on the wiki today
[02:47] <fooka> nhandler: i gotta update that LP page :)
[02:48] <fooka> nhandler: as i mentioned to mdke, just felt a little inspired to chip in after tuesday's openweek sessions
[03:05] <j1mc> fooka: thanks so much for your work. :)
[03:07] <fooka> j1mc: you're welcome
[04:01] <nhandler> What is the policy regarding words like organize/organise with regards to the system documentation? I know there is some wiki page or something that mentions this, but I can't remember which one
[04:30] <j1mc_> nixternal: should be u.s. english, so "organize."
[04:30] <j1mc_> ooops
[04:30] <j1mc_> nhandler: ... ^^
[04:31] <nhandler> j1mc_: Ok, thanks
[07:21] <philip_> nhandler: i don't see the answer here but i've mostly only skimmed: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/StyleGuide
[08:28] <mdke> philip_: it's here, under Spelling - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/StyleGuide/SpellingPunctuationGrammar
[08:29] <philip_> cool, there it is
[08:31] <philip_> today i learned that, and also that -- cannot be used inside <!-- -->
[08:31] <mdke> I didn't know that
[08:31] <mdke> how bizarre
[08:31] <philip_> truly
[08:32] <philip_> i only refer to xml comments here, not sure about elsewhere
[12:04] <nhandler> mdke: Feel like sponsoring http://paste.ubuntu.com/161898/ ?
[13:04] <DJones> I'm not sure if this is the right place to report this, but from https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DesktopEffects the link in the "See Desktop Effects for an official version of this document." line isn't working, I'm getting the message "The requested URL /7.10/desktop-effects/C/ was not found on this server."
[13:05] <jpds> Gutsy is dead. See: https://help.ubuntu.com/9.04/desktop-effects/C/
[13:06] <DJones> jpds: It wasn't actually for me, I was just following the link through from the website, I guess the first page I linked just needs its link updating
[13:06] <jpds> Yep.
[14:07] <ds305> wiki formatting question... Few ubuntu community wiki pages have graphics aligned right with text to the left. Instead there is a graphic with the text below even if the image only fills part of the width.
[14:07] <ds305> Is this the standard.
[14:17]  * ds305 Perhaps because different users have different screen resolutions which would allow viewing it all in one screen?
[14:32] <SiDi> Hello
[14:33] <SiDi> I've got a question that is very likely offtopic : does anyone know good tools to write man pages ? :P
[15:43] <DougieRichardson> SiDi: I thought they were in TeX
[15:45] <SiDi> They're in a weird language actually.
[15:45] <SiDi> I just took one and i'm modifying it at the moment
[17:39] <janisozaur> hi! i've added a wiki page on virtual serial port - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/VirtualSerialPort if you want to check it
[18:03] <Rocket2DMn> janisozaur, that page looks nice
[18:04] <Rocket2DMn> I don't know anything about the content though, but I trust you know what you're doing
[18:04] <Rocket2DMn> If you find other pages on the community docs that are relevant to it, you should make sure to set up some links between the pages
[18:05] <janisozaur> Rocket2DMn, i just had to set up such a connection and after quite a long search and guesstimation i thought i could share with the knowledge gained
[18:06] <Rocket2DMn> cool
[20:01] <mdke> nhandler: sure, that looks fine
[20:03] <mdke> nhandler: no particular bug which that fixes, right?
[20:06] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: I really can't help but to see serious duplication of effort here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/UbuntuDesktopTopics; the topics are basically identical to our desktop help. I'm really struggling to see why this can't use the same material as us
[20:06] <Rocket2DMn> gimme a sec, finishing a quick forum tutorial
[20:06] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: no immediate rush I was just thinking out loud
[20:10] <Rocket2DMn> ah yeah that mdke
[20:10] <Rocket2DMn> That it is not my baby, that is the brainchild of cprofitt and Vantrax (Matthew Lye)
[20:11] <Rocket2DMn> bodhi.zazen is setting up the Moodle site
[20:12] <Rocket2DMn> mdke, i think the purpose is to get existing teams involved in using new tools as part of their training/education efforts
[20:12] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: I don't follow
[20:12] <Rocket2DMn> they are supposed to be built around live sessions, not static documentation
[20:13] <Rocket2DMn> I don't know much about Moodle, but I guess it is a sort of interactive education tool
[20:13] <mdke> I see the idea of the "classroom", but find it a lot harder to see why material should be any different to onscreen help - the aim of both is to teach users
[20:14] <Rocket2DMn> Yes, I understand.  I don't know all the details, but I think it is supposed to work alongside the current Classroom project and link to existing documentation whenever possible
[20:14] <mdke> what do you mean by "to get existing teams involved in using new tools" in the context of this part of the project - is the idea that the docteam is involved in this?
[20:15] <Rocket2DMn> I'm stepping a bit out of my zone here, but I think here is a good example: Take the OpenWeek sessions
[20:15] <Rocket2DMn> Considering that users are actually paying attention and want to be involved, they can interact with the Moodle site to help learn
[20:15] <Rocket2DMn> rather than just seeing text in the channel or on a web page
[20:17] <mdke> hmm
[20:18] <Rocket2DMn> I'm not involved with the project, you would have to ask vantrax or cprofitt
[20:18] <mdke> I already raised the concern about duplication, tbh, as did Mike Basinger - it was roundly ignored
[20:19] <mdke> we'll see how it develops, maybe I'm reading the idea wrongly, but it's a bit odd that no one has come to talk about how material can be reused, at the absolute least
[20:19] <Rocket2DMn> Understood, I think one problem they are running into is that the material is so spread out
[20:19] <Rocket2DMn> every team kinda does their own thing
[20:22] <mdke> well, help is more or less in one place, that's why we called it help.ubuntu.com
[20:22] <mdke> the idea is for it to be easy for users to find and for them not to have to search different sites
[20:25] <Rocket2DMn> mdke, it's not just for system help, I think it is designed for teams to make use of it their training efforts, like MOTU
[20:26] <Rocket2DMn> I think from where we sit, they would want a doc team member to use Moodle to setup a training session using existing documentation
[20:27] <Rocket2DMn> Then that doc team member (or somebody else) can actually go teach the session using the Moodle program as part of the course
[20:27] <Rocket2DMn> I don't think they are planning to move, copy, or rewrite the actual documentation somewhere that it isnt already
[20:29] <Rocket2DMn> i share your concern though mdke
[20:29] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: I'm still a bit concerned about the idea of a separate website for that, in respect of user help - I'm not bothered about the other sections like MOTU
[20:30] <mdke> the single website thing is very important, IMO
[20:30] <Rocket2DMn> yeah mdke , I don't think they intend to use the site as another place to get help.  I don't think documentation is going to be written there.
[20:30] <mdke> let's see how it develops
[20:30] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: ok, maybe I'm misunderstanding the project then
[20:30] <Rocket2DMn> I don't fully understand it myself
[20:30] <mdke> I think it needs to be explained a bit more clearly on the landing page
[20:31] <Rocket2DMn> I think that their Moodle site will be on an ubuntu.com subdomain though
[20:31] <Rocket2DMn> I think it is destined for http://learning.ubuntu.com/
[20:32] <Rocket2DMn> IIRC, they have been given approval to use this
[20:32] <mdke> that's what the page says
[20:32] <DougieRichardson> have they not been in touch with you?
[20:32] <mdke> no, nor the CC
[20:33] <mdke> except for the initial contact, when I raised my concern
[20:33] <DougieRichardson> that's odd
[20:33] <DougieRichardson> I have some worries too.
[20:33] <Rocket2DMn> I don't think the program is designed to be an attempt at documentation
[20:34] <DougieRichardson> No, Matthew Lye and Charles Profitt have both been in touch with me and it looks to me more like they're going to negate the desktop-training if anything
[20:34] <mdke> I've got that point; but starting a new site will inevitably cause confusion for users about where to go
[20:35] <DougieRichardson> I agree - we should get more involved now and we can get more out of it for contribution - it might work for us too
[20:35] <DougieRichardson> This is the page that Matthew emailed me about earlier, have you seen it: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning
[20:36] <mdke> yes, that's what we were discussing
[20:36] <mdke> there is this post from bodhi - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2009-April/012617.html
[20:36] <mdke> but that post is just a collection of positive words, rather than any real explanation of how why they are true
[20:36] <DougieRichardson> Yes I remember it and thought his tone was a bit curt to say the least
[20:37] <mdke> I'd like to see a genuine engagement with the concern about separate sites
[20:37] <mdke> I'll start a conversation, I think
[20:38] <Rocket2DMn> bodhi is a really chill guy
[20:38] <mdke> it's probably a question of more communication needed
[20:38] <DougieRichardson> mdke: Could you elaborate on your concerns I missed the start of this conversation
[20:39] <mdke> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/162435/
[20:39] <mdke> that's the bit before you joined
[20:39] <mdke> ok, I have to go for a bit, forgot about dinner
[20:41] <Rocket2DMn> alright im goin afk too, bbl
[21:04] <Shane_Fagan> DoudieRichardson: What bug would you suggest I start on?
[21:05] <Shane_Fagan> DougieRichardson: What bug would you suggest I start on?
[21:05] <DougieRichardson> Shane_Fagan: two secs dude
[21:07] <DougieRichardson> Shane_Fagan: What areas are you interested in / experienced in and how confident are you?
[21:08] <Shane_Fagan> Well im a student programmer,
[21:09] <Shane_Fagan> So im confident enough but not too experienced
[21:09] <DougieRichardson> Some would see we're always student programmers - while except Soustroup, Torvalds and Deitel ;-)
[21:10] <DougieRichardson> So I guess you're happy with markup languages then?
[21:10] <Shane_Fagan> Ish learned a little but my area is desktop programs
[21:11] <Shane_Fagan> So yep happy enough but havent done much
[21:11] <DougieRichardson> Cool, well if you want to jump in then Bug #362414 is probably a good place to start
[21:11] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 362414 in ubuntu-docs "A note on having to manually deinterlace interlaced DVDs should be made" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/362414
[21:11] <DougieRichardson> Gotta love ubot4
[21:11] <Shane_Fagan> Yep
[21:12] <DougieRichardson> We need to clarify the issue, I don't know if this issue is actually true or not so we need to confirm it first
[21:12] <DougieRichardson> You can either attempt to confirm on your own setup
[21:13] <DougieRichardson> Or Assign it to yourself and, set it as Incomplete and request confirmation from the submitter
[21:13] <Shane_Fagan> Ill look into it cool
[21:13] <DougieRichardson> Let me know if you need more direction once you know where you're going
[21:13] <DougieRichardson> Your best bet is to email me
[21:14] <DougieRichardson> because I'm up to my eyes in a Java project this weekend
[21:14] <DougieRichardson><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[21:44] <Shane_Fagan> DougieRichardson: Bug #362414 is invalid in jaunty
[21:44] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 362414 in ubuntu-docs "A note on having to manually deinterlace interlaced DVDs should be made" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/362414
[21:45] <Shane_Fagan> Are there any others that would be easy to look into
[21:45] <DougieRichardson> Shane_Fagan: Awsome - that's one down.
[21:45] <DougieRichardson> Shane_Fagan: Try to give the submitter a few platitudes though to encourage them to submit in the future
[21:46] <DougieRichardson> "Thanks for taking the time to report this" and so on
[21:47] <Shane_Fagan> Oh I understand
[21:47] <DougieRichardson> Its like walking a tightrope because we need to be as polite as possible but sometimes people can be very rude
[21:47] <DougieRichardson> How about bug #346892 ?
[21:47] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 346892 in ubuntu-docs "games/C/games.xml:109 keymapping not input devices" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/346892
[21:48] <Shane_Fagan> DougieRichardson: Sure ill have a look
[21:48] <Meg> hi all :)
[21:48] <Meg> i'd like to contribute translation help, what can i do to get started??
[21:49] <DougieRichardson> Hi Meg
[21:49] <Meg> hi
[21:49] <DougieRichardson> Have you looked over https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Translation
[21:50] <DougieRichardson> What languages do you speak?
[21:50] <Meg> Spanish (native), English, ... French and Italian (teacher of both these languages)
[21:52] <DougieRichardson> Fantastic, mdke and adiroiban are the best people to speak to
[21:52] <Rocket2DMn> that's quite a resume
[21:52] <DougieRichardson> Did you see adi's talk on OpenWeek?
[21:57] <Rocket2DMn> Ok, so can anybody tell me why when I view the wiki, some stuff is messed up.  For instances, tables don't always show correctly
[21:59] <nhandler> Thanks mdke for sponsoring the patch
[22:01] <DougieRichardson> Rocket2DMn: I hadn't noticed - any examples?
[22:01] <Rocket2DMn> its on the team wiki
[22:01] <Rocket2DMn> for instance: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam
[22:01] <Rocket2DMn> look at the table under IRC - I can't see the separate between the two non-colored rows
[22:02] <Rocket2DMn> separator*
[22:03] <Rocket2DMn> some tables look ok, or some tables will only have a problem in one or two places
[22:03] <Rocket2DMn> look at our meetings page - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings
[22:03] <DougieRichardson> I don't see that or am being blonde
[22:03] <Rocket2DMn> On some of the tables there I don't see column separators
[22:04] <DougieRichardson> Screenshot?
[22:05] <Rocket2DMn> http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/6779/screenshotbeginnersteam.png
[22:06] <DougieRichardson> Not from here - the seperators are there
[22:06] <DougieRichardson> Is this in FF?
[22:06] <Rocket2DMn> yes, FF, do you see what im talkin about in the screenshot?
[22:07] <DougieRichardson> yes
[22:07] <Rocket2DMn> the same thing happens with row separators
[22:08] <DougieRichardson> is noscript doing anything - is see the icon but not sure if that icon means on or off
[22:08] <Rocket2DMn> the problem existed before i started using noscropt
[22:08] <DougieRichardson> what about adblock?
[22:08] <DougieRichardson> Ignore that
[22:08] <DougieRichardson> I'm using abp, duh
[22:11] <KelvinGardiner> Hi, where can I find the IRC logs of the last doc team meeting?
[22:11] <DougieRichardson> i don't even remember the last one we had!
[22:11] <mdke> KelvinGardiner: do you mean the one focused on the installation guide?
[22:13] <KelvinGardiner> No, the last general meeting, I was going to have a look at them before the meeting tomorrow.
[22:14] <DougieRichardson> Rocket2DMn: What's your browser identifying as?
[22:14] <nhandler> KelvinGardiner: If you have the date of the meeting, you could look at irclogs.ubuntu.com
[22:16] <KelvinGardiner> nhandler: I don't. I had a quick look at the logs and viewed the ones with a reasonable file size, but couldn't find it. It's not particularly important.
[22:17] <mdke> it's been a couple of years at least, I guess
[22:19] <mdke> July 2007, looks like
[22:19] <Rocket2DMn> DougieRichardson, it should be identifying as firefox
[22:20] <DougieRichardson> Rocket2DMn: Just wondered if it was a CSS issue
[22:20] <Rocket2DMn> User Agent is Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:<IP_ADDRESS>) Gecko/2009042523 Ubuntu/9.04 (jaunty) Firefox/3.0.10
[22:21] <DougieRichardson> Rocket2DMn: Me to, next avenue...
[22:22] <DougieRichardson> Rocket2DMn: Stage 2 - have  you tried doing a firefox -P and using a clean profile to check if its an extension or setting?
[22:23] <Rocket2DMn> what does -P do?
[22:23] <DougieRichardson> has a nice dialog about profiles
[22:24] <DougieRichardson> sorry that was garbage - I'm tired and stupid , it starts without a profile loaded
[22:25] <Rocket2DMn> works ok with a new profile, as it should
[22:25] <Rocket2DMn> im not gonna go build up an entirely new profile though
[22:25] <DougieRichardson> OK, shall we try the halving method?
[22:25] <DougieRichardson> Disable half your extensions
[22:26] <DougieRichardson> see if its there
[22:26] <DougieRichardson> if not you know its in the off half and keep splitting till we find the culprit
[22:26] <Rocket2DMn> alright hold on for a min
[22:27] <Rocket2DMn> is there a way to just disable all
[22:27] <Rocket2DMn> then at leats we woudl know its an extension
[22:28] <DougieRichardson> well the -P option did that so it's a fair stab
[22:28] <Rocket2DMn> ok well i turned them all off and the problem ois still there
[22:29] <Rocket2DMn> brb
[22:30] <DougieRichardson> what about if you're logged out of he wiki?
[22:30] <Rocket2DMn> i tried removing the LP and wiki cookies
[22:30] <Rocket2DMn> i gotta take a phone call right now though, ill bbiab
[22:30] <Rocket2DMn> thanks for your help
[22:30] <DougieRichardson> cool
[22:31] <DougieRichardson> no worries mate
[22:39] <Rocket2DMn> ok , back
[22:44] <DougieRichardson> hi
[22:51] <nhandler> In the "Adding a software repository" section, why do we use "deb http://ftp.debian.org etch main" as the example?
[22:51] <mdke> I'm not aware of a special reason
[22:51] <DougieRichardson> We should probably change that
[22:52] <nhandler> Maybe we could update it to give an example of adding a PPA
[22:52] <mdke> perhaps we should use the partner repository as an example
[22:52]  * nhandler thinks a PPA would be more useful
[22:53] <mdke> go on
[22:53] <DougieRichardson> Actually, I think PPA is a good idea too
[22:53] <nhandler> Do we have any other documentation that discusses the PPAs?
[22:53] <DougieRichardson> Not in the system docs
[22:53] <mdke> they aren't really intended for users though
[22:53] <DougieRichardson> But given the number of Xorg drivers
[22:53] <mdke> whereas the partner repository i
[22:53] <mdke> +s
[22:53] <DougieRichardson> that are in ppa it might be an idea
[22:54] <nhandler> mdke: I would have to disagree. Some PPAs are very stable
[22:54] <mdke> nhandler: but they might not be - they don't have any level of guaranteed quality control
[22:54] <DougieRichardson> They're also being mentioned more often on the forums too
[22:54] <mdke> as with the Ubuntu/Canonical archive
[22:54] <nhandler> mdke: That is why we would not link to any specific PPA. It would be up to the user to decide which one to add
[22:54] <DougieRichardson> mdke: we can warn people about the risks
[22:55] <mdke> yes, we could do
[22:55] <nhandler> It would also be a good place to explain how to import the PPA keys to be more secure
[22:55] <mdke> I was just thinking that the partner repository would be a good example because you don't need such a warning, and because it's intended for users
[22:56] <DougieRichardson> OK, then should we expand on PPA on the Wiki and link to it?
[22:56] <nhandler> DougieRichardson: Launchpad has a decent wiki page explaining the PPAs as well
[22:56] <mdke> I'm not saying that we should not document PPAs, maybe we could do
[22:56] <nhandler> What about a separate doc page about the PPAs?
[22:57] <DougieRichardson> If the LP page is good then we can just link to that?
[22:57] <nhandler> For the wiki, that would work DougieRichardson
[22:57] <DougieRichardson> For the system too - PPA is going to need web access
[22:58] <nhandler> DougieRichardson: Using a PPA needs web access, adding it does not
[22:58] <nhandler> But we could add a link at the end of the PPA section in the system docs (if we create one)
[22:59] <DougieRichardson> nhandler: granted but that's kinda splitting hairs as it wont do anything
[22:59] <DougieRichardson> I don;t see a problem with expanding the system docs
[22:59] <nhandler> Let me draft a PPA section. We can decide where to put it later
[23:00] <DougieRichardson> OK
[23:00] <mdke> I don't have a feel for how many ppas exist that are suitable for public consumption (do we even document -proposed?) but if there are a few out there, then we could add a section
[23:00] <DougieRichardson> Anyone dealing with intel xorg servers is likely to be interested in thsi
[23:01] <nhandler> mdke: One example of a relatively stable PPA is the kubuntu-experimental one that we were using to provide newer kubuntu packages to intrepid users
[23:05] <mdke> nhandler: ok, I don't have a fundamental problem with it; I just think that if something is suitable for broad user consumption, it's likely to be in the main repository
[23:05] <mdke> I can't see a downside of adding a section though, properly explained
[23:06] <nhandler> mdke: That depends. Some users use a PPA to distribute stable packages while they are waiting for a sponsor. Or a freeze might prevent them from uploading it
[23:07] <nhandler> It is also an easy way to provide newer versions of packages for users of different versions of Ubuntu (without going through the backport process)
[23:07] <mdke> right, but those processes are there for a reason, they aren't just random hurdles
[23:07] <mdke> anyway, as I say, let's see how it looks, I think it's a good thing if you could draft a section
[23:08]  * nhandler will try to draft something by the end of the weekend
[23:08] <mdke> great
[23:18] <KelvinGardiner> Is there a way to limit the width of a image in the wiki. The keyboard image on this page goes over the edge of the main page area. https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AppleKeyboard I've seen this on a few other pages as well.
[23:22] <Rocket2DMn> KelvinGardiner, i think you just need to make a thumbnail manually
[23:23] <KelvinGardiner> Rocket2DMn: ok thanks.
[23:35] <DougieRichardson> mdke: I have had a chat with bodhi_zazen and doctormo about the learning thing