[16:10] <johnc4510> hi all
[16:10] <tyche> Morning, boss
[16:10] <johnc4510> lol
[16:10] <kennymc0> morning slav....boss
[16:11] <tyche> I don't see myrtlebeachbums, so I've started in on ITP.  kennymc0 is finishing up ITB.  Then one or the other of us will go on to ION.
[16:11]  * kennymc0 hopes he didnt notice me almost say slave driver
[16:11] <kennymc0> lol
[16:11] <johnc4510> i did, you're in trouble
[16:11] <tyche> I haven't had a chance to take a real look at the issue, but so far I know that there's at least one Glossary term that I'll have to put in.
[16:11] <johnc4510> :)
[16:11] <tyche> Fortunately, it's a copy and paste.
[16:12] <johnc4510> cool
[16:12] <tyche> And would someone PLEASE tell Dana Blankenhorn of ZDNet that he's supposed to write SUBSTANTIVE articles?
[16:12] <johnc4510> i want to make a final check of my feeds then i'll help with the summaries
[16:12] <johnc4510> lol
[16:13] <kennymc0> oh so you're going to add more work and then think about helping
[16:13] <kennymc0> lol
[16:14] <johnc4510> yes
[16:14] <tyche> "I'll get you for that, Red Baron!"
[16:14] <johnc4510> i might not have if not for that slave driver remark :)
[16:15] <tyche> Oh, great.  You make ME work harder because of something kennymc0 did.
[16:15] <tyche> Some friend YOU are.
[16:18] <kennymc0> you're welcome tyche
[16:18] <kennymc0> :D
[16:18] <kennymc0> fourth summary is turning into a very long summary
[16:28] <johnc4510> tyche: are the dholbach's 5-a-day stats down??
[16:28] <kennymc0> i think he hasnt put anything other than bugjam stats up
[16:28] <tyche> I don't know.  Hold on
[16:28] <kennymc0> that's what was on there the last time i checked
[16:28] <johnc4510> kennymc0: right
[16:29] <tyche> Sure looks like that.
[16:29] <johnc4510> yeah, ok
[16:30] <johnc4510> tyche: kennymc0 what are you two working on so i don't step on you
[16:30] <tyche> I believe he said he was re-vamping.  But I don't see anything more than what he'd done for bugjam.  So I'm not sure what's happening.
[16:30] <johnc4510> k
[16:30] <tyche> I'm on ITP, currently on the 4th entry.
[16:30] <johnc4510> k
[16:31] <johnc4510> kennymc0 is on ITB i think
[16:31] <johnc4510> i'll hit ION
[16:31] <kennymc0> yeah i'm on itb
[16:31] <johnc4510> k
[16:31] <tyche> kk.  That'll help
[16:31] <kennymc0> i'm working on the 5th article right now
[16:46] <tyche> First 4 ITP's are up.  Working on the last 3
[16:47] <tyche> Hey, myrtlebeachbums.  Welcome aboard
[16:58] <johnc4510-laptop> tyche: i'm now starting at the top and working down
[16:58] <tyche> kk.  I'm scanning for glossary terms
[16:59] <johnc4510-laptop> i'll have one more for someone after they finish up
[16:59] <johnc4510-laptop> link that is
[16:59] <tyche> Give it to myrtlebeachbums.  LOL
[16:59] <johnc4510-laptop> k
[17:08] <tyche> johnc4510-laptop: just as a suggestion, not really a complaint.  When you put a parenthetical expression after a link, please put a space between them.  Otherwise the wiki thinks that it's part of the link.
[17:09] <johnc4510-laptop> not sure where i did that
[17:12] <tyche> I've already gotten beyond that.  But it WAS a bit of a problem until I realized what had happened.  LOL
[17:12] <johnc4510-laptop> k
[17:13] <tyche> It was one of the ones in ITP
[17:15] <johnc4510-laptop> Jeff_Martin: let me know when your out of the edit please
[17:18] <Jeff_Martin> johnc4510-laptop: out of the edit now
[17:19] <johnc4510-laptop> k
[17:20] <johnc4510-laptop> wiki is slow today for me
[17:20] <tyche> Always seems to happen when you get into it.
[17:21] <kennymc0> it was running fast for me and then you guys started playing with it and it started to slow down :P
[17:21] <tyche> It was running fast for me, too.  WHAT DID YOU DO TO THE WIKI????
[17:23] <johnc4510-laptop> oh, the ususal i guess
[17:23] <johnc4510-laptop> :)
[17:23] <johnc4510-laptop> i'm rebooting the desktop, could have been that. had on core maxed for some reason
[17:25] <johnc4510-laptop> AWN wasn't playing nice with the others
[17:25] <myrtlebeachbums> Are you running the ppa version of AWN?
[17:25] <johnc4510-laptop> yeah, i think so
[17:26] <johnc4510-laptop> that's better
[17:27] <myrtlebeachbums> grep for this in your /etc/apt/sources.list: deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/reacocard-awn/ubuntu/ intrepid main #Avant Window Navigator
[17:29] <johnc4510-laptop> k
[17:29] <johnc4510-laptop> thx
[17:29] <kennymc0> i'm ready to post the last ITB once you are out johnc4510-laptop
[17:29] <johnc4510-laptop> out
[17:29] <kennymc0> kk
[17:31] <kennymc0> ok i've got all the ITB articles done
[17:31] <johnc4510-laptop> i have one more link for you please
[17:31] <johnc4510-laptop> hang on
[17:32] <kennymc0> darn didnt run away fast enough
[17:32] <myrtlebeachbums> You? Another last minute link? The hell you say.
[17:32]  * myrtlebeachbums waits for 10 more ITP's to suddenly appear.
[17:32]  * kennymc0 waits for 20 more ITB's to appear and then 30 more ION's
[17:32] <myrtlebeachbums> LOL
[17:33] <myrtlebeachbums> johnc4510 everyone - UWN's own version of Rodney Dangerfield - no respect.
[17:33] <kennymc0> oh wait johnc4510-laptop was working on ION so he probably wont add any more there since that would make more work for him
[17:33] <kennymc0> lol
[17:33] <johnc4510-laptop> http://dthomasdigital.wordpress.com/2009/02/09/new-mexico-ubuntu-loco-projects-keep-moving-forward/
[17:34] <johnc4510-laptop> kennymc0: Team of the week
[17:34] <johnc4510-laptop> right before updates
[17:34] <johnc4510-laptop> add link and summaries
[17:34] <johnc4510-laptop> please
[17:34] <johnc4510-laptop> thx
[17:34] <kennymc0> i feel overworked
[17:34] <kennymc0> lol
[17:34] <johnc4510-laptop> dang, johnc4510-laptop wips out his hankie
[17:35] <johnc4510-laptop> whips
[17:35] <myrtlebeachbums> Wait for the UWN around Jaunty's release.
[17:35] <johnc4510-laptop> right
[17:35] <johnc4510-laptop> the wk of or after is usually huge
[17:35] <kennymc0> i'm afraid of what uwn #200 is going to be like
[17:35] <kennymc0> expecially after seeing #100
[17:35] <myrtlebeachbums> The UWN's around *.04 and *.10 are ALWAYS fun issues.
[17:35] <johnc4510-laptop> oooooooooh, B I G
[17:36] <myrtlebeachbums> kennymc0 - just be damn glad you're not doing security and updates any more.
[17:36] <johnc4510-laptop> i've already been pondering #200
[17:36] <myrtlebeachbums> I know I was wishing that you'd started a week earlier. :)
[17:36] <kennymc0> i was pounding them out quick though
[17:36] <kennymc0> it wasnt all that bad
[17:37] <kennymc0> could have been worst
[17:37] <kennymc0> could have been better
[17:37] <kennymc0> tyche could have given my that script sooner
[17:37] <johnc4510-laptop> kennymc0: i think there's already a write up of that too
[17:37] <johnc4510-laptop> check the fridge
[17:37] <tyche> You mean like the time I had something like 85 updates?  and that was just in ONE release.  And NO script.
[17:38] <johnc4510-laptop> nick did one i think
[17:38] <johnc4510-laptop> :)
[17:38] <johnc4510-laptop> that should save you some time
[17:38] <kennymc0> so it's supposed to go in meeting summaries right?
[17:38] <johnc4510-laptop> no
[17:38] <johnc4510-laptop> i set up a section: Team of the Week
[17:38] <kennymc0> i'm cojnfused now
[17:39] <kennymc0> ah i see it now
[17:40] <kennymc0> sandwiched inbetween upcomming events and updates
[17:40] <boredandblogging> liraz sent an email about the 5-a-day stats
[17:41] <tyche> Yea, I don't think Dan H has completed revamping his system, yet.
[17:41] <boredandblogging> ok
[17:43] <johnc4510-laptop> boredandblogging: thx
[17:44] <johnc4510-laptop> Jeff_Martin: ping
[17:45] <Jeff_Martin> hello
[17:45] <johnc4510-laptop> hey
[17:45] <johnc4510-laptop> ok, i've got a little chore
[17:45] <johnc4510-laptop> :)
[17:45] <Jeff_Martin> chores, ok
[17:45] <johnc4510-laptop> just had a new event added to the google calendar
[17:45] <Jeff_Martin> ok
[17:45] <johnc4510-laptop> and a request to add it to the UWN
[17:46] <johnc4510-laptop> March 6, US teams meeting
[17:46] <johnc4510-laptop> could you add that in please
[17:49] <Jeff_Martin> ok
[17:49] <johnc4510-laptop> thx
[17:49] <tyche> Jeff_Martin: Now you get a taste of what it's like on a Sunday morning.  Organized chaos.  LOL
[17:51] <kennymc0> Jeff_Martin: let me know when you are out so i can put something in
[17:52] <Jeff_Martin> kennymc0: I am out
[17:52] <kennymc0> kk
[17:53] <Jeff_Martin> tyche: not so bad really
[17:53] <tyche> Well, we DO try to keep our chaos organized.  :-)
[17:54] <tyche> Of course for KDE lovers, it's khaos.  Hee hee
[17:55] <kennymc0> ok johnc4510-laptop your team of the week thing is up
[17:55] <kennymc0> see if you like what i did or if i completely butchered it
[17:56] <johnc4510-laptop> kennymc0: thx
[17:56] <kennymc0> np
[18:07] <myrtlebeachbums> Okay guys - my ITP write ups are in. What else would you like me to work on?
[18:08] <johnc4510-laptop> proof please
[18:08] <johnc4510-laptop> :)
[18:08] <johnc4510-laptop> thx
[18:08] <myrtlebeachbums> Will do!
[18:09] <johnc4510-laptop> thx
[18:10] <johnc4510-laptop> myrtlebeachbums: i'm down thru brainstorm
[18:10] <myrtlebeachbums> Okay.
[18:10] <johnc4510-laptop> start at loco news
[18:10] <myrtlebeachbums> Will do
[18:11] <johnc4510-laptop> thx
[18:12] <myrtlebeachbums> Wow on the first loco news story. I wish someone would do that locally so I could attend.
[18:13] <myrtlebeachbums> Question on the last line of the Chicago article: ....and one team member really saw the meaning of what the Ubuntu Community is all about.
[18:13] <myrtlebeachbums> That sounds like a lot of resources for one guy to "get it".
[18:13] <myrtlebeachbums> Would sound better as "and team members really saw the meaning of what the Ubuntu Community is all about."
[18:14] <johnc4510-laptop> good you can change that
[18:14] <myrtlebeachbums> I'm a whiz at creating more work for myself. ;)
[18:17] <tyche> johnc4510-laptop: Let me know when you're out, and I'll toss in the Glossary
[18:18] <myrtlebeachbums> tyche - while you're in can you modify where the links are for my ITP's?
[18:18] <myrtlebeachbums> I see yours have no white space between the end of the article and the link.
[18:19] <tyche> Then maybe MINE need to be modified.
[18:20] <myrtlebeachbums> Looks like the style you used is the preferred one now. It was that way in UWN 130.
[18:20] <myrtlebeachbums> ...but if you'd like to go through back issues and correct yourself, by all means feel free. ;)
[18:20] <tyche> I see them both ways.
[18:21] <myrtlebeachbums> We should aim for consistency though. johnc4510-laptop: do you feel strongly one way or another?
[18:21] <johnc4510-laptop> ok, i had the final results of gbj stats save on my box, and i posted them in place of the reg. 5-a-day
[18:25] <tyche> OK, I'm out.
[18:28] <myrtlebeachbums> I *SWEAR* we did the "Netbook Nightmare" story before. I remember writing it up, but I can't find it in any of the recent UWN's.
[18:29] <johnc4510-laptop> give me the link and let me look
[18:29] <johnc4510-laptop> please
[18:29] <myrtlebeachbums> http://broadcast.oreilly.com/2009/02/netbook-nightmare-my-experienc.html
[18:29] <tyche> I don't remember it.
[18:30] <myrtlebeachbums> I'm looking for Sylvania in all of the UWN's, and the only hit I get is from UWN123 where I did a write up on the new notebooks coming out.
[18:30] <johnc4510-laptop> nope, we do very little form oreilly
[18:30] <myrtlebeachbums> I wish I could find the article I'm talking about because I'd like to think that I'm not doing UWN ITP write ups in my dreams.
[18:34] <myrtlebeachbums> kennymc0 - Ubuntu runs one of every 3 Dell Netbooks sold: Who's Mr. Pinkert? If his full name is listed I'd put it in as "Joe Blow, Dell's Director of Marketing, announced..."
[18:34] <myrtlebeachbums> Just anal-retentive constructive criticism. :)
[18:35] <myrtlebeachbums> Q for everyone - it's generally accepted as OpenOffice, not Open Office, right?
[18:36] <johnc4510-laptop> yes
[18:36] <tyche> Technically, it's OpenOffice.org.  They had a problem with another app that had the name Open Office, so they used the URL name.
[18:37] <myrtlebeachbums> Okay. I'll change it to that.
[18:37] <johnc4510-laptop> but if you put it in that way do this please Open``Office
[18:37] <johnc4510-laptop> otherwise it'll be a hot link
[18:37] <myrtlebeachbums> I've not missed a camel back this issue, so I'll try not to start now. ha ha
[18:37] <johnc4510-laptop> :)
[18:40] <myrtlebeachbums> johnc4510-laptop - please let me know when you're out.
[18:40] <johnc4510-laptop> i out now
[18:41] <myrtlebeachbums> Thanks
[18:41] <johnc4510-laptop> :)
[18:42] <myrtlebeachbums> Okay, all the Open Office have been changed to Open``Office.org and one other minor typo fixed.
[18:43] <johnc4510-laptop> thx
[18:50] <myrtlebeachbums> Can I assume that "Whe participate" should be "We participate" under the Columbian Team write up?
[18:51] <johnc4510-laptop> probably
[18:51] <johnc4510-laptop> go ahead and fix it
[18:52] <myrtlebeachbums> Done, and fixed some more stray camel backs.
[18:52] <johnc4510-laptop> cool
[18:55] <myrtlebeachbums> It's comforting to see that I'm not the only one who fat fingers it as netowrk. ;) fixing.
[18:55] <johnc4510-laptop> sure
[18:56] <myrtlebeachbums> Okay. My proofing is done. I think I got everything.
[18:57] <johnc4510-laptop> k thx
[18:57] <johnc4510-laptop> we're getting close
[18:57] <myrtlebeachbums> Anything else you want me to do for now?
[18:58] <tyche> Yep.  Definitely close.  You can tell because things start quieting down in here, and johnc4510-laptop stops screaming and starts talking nice.  LOL
[18:58] <johnc4510-laptop> lol
[18:59] <myrtlebeachbums> lol
[19:04] <johnc4510-laptop> if you guys are done proofing, i can finish up
[19:04] <johnc4510-laptop> great job this week team
[19:04] <johnc4510-laptop> !!
[19:04] <johnc4510-laptop> i really appreciate it
[19:04] <myrtlebeachbums> Thanks!
[19:04] <johnc4510-laptop> :)
[19:04] <johnc4510-laptop> Jeff_Martin: welcome to the team!!!!
[19:05] <tyche> Well, Jeff_Martin, you've just been blooded.
[19:05] <Jeff_Martin> ;)
[19:05] <Jeff_Martin> ty, glad to help
[19:13] <johnc4510-laptop> tyche: just scratch, we'll blood him next week. ::)
[19:14] <myrtlebeachbums> Welcome Jeff_Martin!
[19:14] <myrtlebeachbums> Is he another AZ draftee?
[19:14] <tyche> myrtlebeachbums: yep
[19:14] <johnc4510-laptop> nods
[19:14] <johnc4510-laptop> but a volunteer, no drafting with him
[19:14] <Jeff_Martin> ty myrtlebeachbums
[19:14] <tyche> johnc4510-laptop: Isn't that what the black knight said in the Monty Python script?
[19:15] <tyche> Naw.  eventually we'll just take over the US, and you won't have to worry about it.
[19:15] <johnc4510-laptop> again, nice job today folks
[19:15] <johnc4510-laptop> thx
[19:15] <myrtlebeachbums> Glad to hear it. It's hard to scuba dive in the desert. :)
[19:16] <Jeff_Martin> there are lakes myrtlebeachbums
[19:16] <tyche> Yep.  That's why we have so many boats out here.
[19:16] <Jeff_Martin> and you can always be ready for the flash floods with the scuba gear
[19:17] <myrtlebeachbums> Some day I'll make it out that direction. The airplane geek in me wants to visit Davis Monthan once before I die.
[19:18] <tyche> Jeff_Martin: Yea.    They saved the horses.
[19:22] <tyche> myrtlebeachbums: Here you go:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_sailing
[19:22] <myrtlebeachbums> LOL Looks fun!
[22:00] <johnc4510-laptop> The new issue of the Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter is available:
[22:00] <johnc4510-laptop> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue131
[22:02] <kennymc0> yay
[22:02] <kennymc0> :)
[22:32] <johnc4510-laptop> having trouble with the -news mailing list though
[22:32] <johnc4510-laptop> or cox
[22:32] <johnc4510-laptop> probably cox
[22:32] <johnc4510-laptop> :(
[22:48] <johnc4510-laptop> gaaaa, 3 tries to get it sent :(
[22:48] <kennymc0> keep trying
[22:48] <kennymc0> it will go eventually
[22:48] <johnc4510-laptop> i got it out on the 3rd try
[22:48] <johnc4510-laptop> should be in your in box


[00:28] <meena> Code_Bleu: first draft, https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/4654
[00:28] -ubottu:#cloud-init- Pull 4654 in canonical/cloud-init "dmi: support OpenBSD native reading" [Open]
[00:28] <meena> needs tests… and, well, testing.
[00:28] <meena> also, that uname patch is really lazy and doesn't really work
[05:00] <Code_Bleu> meena: I pull those changes from your branch and tested without having dmidecode and it did install just fine, but there are still execution issues.  I noticed in the logs that it errored on missing 'wget', so that is another package that is needed.  Also, I see in the logs network issues and is prob related to me losing connection when cloud-init runs. I have to down and up the interface after
[05:00] <Code_Bleu> to get it to work again.
[05:01] <Code_Bleu> also, I believe this is where we need to make changes for OpenBSD. It can do the get_device_list() because it doesn't have this path in OpenBSD - https://github.com/igalic/cloud-init/blob/9662a8791e53bac40a3a37aa3f5bee3076f7d447/cloudinit/net/__init__.py#L19
[05:04] <Code_Bleu> I also assume we will need a file like this for OpenBSD, or maybe have one BSD file with logic in it for the different ones - https://github.com/igalic/cloud-init/blob/9662a8791e53bac40a3a37aa3f5bee3076f7d447/cloudinit/distros/freebsd.py
[05:06] <Code_Bleu> meena: when you're awake 😄  👆
[05:35] <Code_Bleu> meena: disregard about the last couple comments and links. I was still on your fork and was looking at wrong branch commit some how.
[11:48] <meena> Code_Bleu: the grand plan is to get rid of most of cloudinit.net
[14:44] <Code_Bleu> meen: The next error in my logs I think needs addressed is the net/activator.  I attempted to add changes, but for some reason the error still doesn't show the new class I added that it should be iterating throught - https://dpaste.com/GNEGPUL26
[14:45] <Code_Bleu> Here is my changes - http://sprunge.us/Oc8Y4U and http://sprunge.us/bJZcjd
[14:45] <Code_Bleu> sorry - meena ^
[17:45] <meena> Code_Bleu: that's weird. on FreeBSD we don't have an activator either, just the renderer, and it works just fine
[17:46] <meena> the difference between rendering the network config on BSD and bringing it up is vanishingly small, so we combine it
[17:50] <meena> your activator looks good, but i don't think the Linux people will like the priority you've given it ;)
[18:33] <init> I have a simple configuration ->
[18:33] <init> https://paste.rs/V2Qub.yaml
[18:34] <init> package installs are failing however with the following error:
[18:34] <init> E: Unable to locate package gcsfuse
[18:34] <init> 2023-12-02 18:24:33,364 - util.py[WARNING]: Failed to install packages: ['gnupg', 'apache2', 'gcsfuse']
[18:35] <init> I suspect this is because $ apt update isn't ran after the source is added
[18:35] <init> has anyone ran into this and/or have any tips/suggestions? thanks
[18:36] <init> I suppose I could add runcmds that do this but something tells me I might have just configured things wrong (left an option out)
[20:02] <init> oddly this configuration works as expected in a local lunar vm
[20:07] <init> hm I am using mantic minotaur minimal on gcp
[20:07] <init> I wonder if that has something to do with it?
[20:39] <init> that is so odd...
[20:40] <init> /usr/bin/cloud-init 23.3.3-0ubuntu0~23.10.1
[20:44] <meena> interesting
[20:45] <init> I hate computers
[22:00] <meena> init: same, friend, same.


[22:37] <newdevelo> Hi
[22:37] <newdevelo> someone runned ubuntu touch emulator with amd graphic card?


[11:54] <amachu> persia: elkbuntu: TheMuso: lifeless: Hi
[11:54] <amachu> zakame: belutz: ?
[11:57] <amachu> persia: there?
[11:58] <amachu> elkbuntu: ?
[11:58] <amachu> Hello Board!
[11:58] <amachu> mmm...
[11:58] <TheMuso> Hey folks.
[11:59] <amachu> TheMuso: Hey :-)
[11:59] <persia> amachu: Here now.
[11:59] <amachu> and its time now..
[11:59] <amachu> persia: hey, we are three now
[11:59] <elkbuntu> here
[11:59] <amachu> elkbuntu: gr8!
[12:00] <amachu> and lifeless? zakame? belutz?
[12:01] <amachu> it doesn't appear neither of amireldor, huayra, svaksha are here right now :-(
[12:01] <persia> We definitely need some candidates for a useful meeting :)
[12:02] <TheMuso> Yeah, people would help.
[12:03] <elkbuntu> i think we can wait a bit
[12:04]  * TheMuso reads their wiki pages while waiting.
[12:07]  * TheMuso thinks people should probably not publish phone numbers on the wiki.
[12:09] <TheMuso> dd/c
[12:09] <TheMuso> gah
[12:10] <persia> TheMuso: Why not?  Some people might like to get a call.
[12:11]  * persia remembers concerns about privacy when first being listed in the whois DB, and giving up after discovering the number of ways that data could be tracked
[12:11] <TheMuso> persia: This is true, but thats just me.
[12:11] <TheMuso> hehe fair enough.
[12:11] <persia> TheMuso: I'm somewhat sympathetic: I believe all the telephone numbers apparently belonging to me and available over unecrypted connections are currently wrong.
[12:11] <leoquant> amireldor is considered for ubuntu membership on two meetings?: Asia and Oceania and Europe, and Asia and Oceania ?
[12:12] <persia> leoquant: At least on the agenda, but has yet to appear before either board.
[12:13] <leoquant> ok
[12:14] <TheMuso> /c/c
[12:14] <TheMuso> my fingers are cold...
[12:15] <persia> TheMuso: type faster :)
[12:15] <TheMuso> Yeah that is one option.
[12:15] <persia> It's midwinter there, right?  How cold does it get?
[12:15] <stgraber> amireldor has been on our list for quite a long time (months) but never show up at a meeting
[12:16] <TheMuso> persia: It is late winter/early spspring now.
[12:16] <TheMuso> I am in a heated room, so that should help eventually.
[12:17] <leoquant> indeed stgraber several months
[12:21] <TheMuso> Ok we have one candidate.
[12:21] <elkbuntu> maybe we should add a 'choose the regional board that best fits your schedule' line?
[12:21]  * hubuntu is a candidate too
[12:21] <techno_freak> oops, amachu quit :s
[12:22] <elkbuntu> hubuntu, which in the list are you?
[12:22] <hubuntu> huayra
[12:22] <hubuntu> huayra-the h
[12:22]  * elkbuntu clicks that wikipage
[12:26] <persia> hubuntu: You live in Norway, focus on Ecuador, and come to use for your membership application?  You're not a fan of sleep, are you?
[12:26] <hubuntu> I focus on Ecuador and Norway ;)
[12:26] <hubuntu> I come to you because I am a fan of sleeping
[12:27] <persia> Oh, were the European and Americas boards scheduled at a bad time?
[12:27] <hubuntu> the emea board has not had a meeting for a while and the americas.. well, they have but it's always too late for me ;)
[12:27] <hubuntu> (3-4am)
[12:27] <persia> I see.
[12:28] <hubuntu> it's 1pm here now, so it is quite a good time for me... hope it suits you too ;)
[12:28] <persia> Oh, it's about as good a time as we can pick, given our selection of timezones.
[12:29] <persia> So, while we're all reading your wiki page, perhaps you could give us a shorter introduction?
[12:29] <hubuntu> well indeed
[12:29] <hubuntu> I have been a GNU/Linux for 10 years, and ubuntu user since hoary came out
[12:30] <hubuntu> I contribute to documentation, translation, organize events, LP
[12:30] <hubuntu> I am the contact member for Ubuntu Ecuador
[12:30] <hubuntu> and work with other projects as well (SpreadUbuntu, CUPIE, Ubuntu Spanish Loco teams workgroup)
[12:31] <hubuntu> I am at the moment organizing the first ever SFD in Oslo
[12:31] <hubuntu> and I'm just in love with Ubuntu I guess...
[12:32] <hubuntu> I'm very excited about Ubuntu and specially interested in its commercial aspect of it as part of the whole ecosystem
[12:33] <hubuntu> besides that I believe in Software Freedom and that all users should have the availability to use the software in their own terms
[12:34] <hubuntu> as of now my focus is on contributing more to bugs/answer tracking and the SpreadUbuntu site
[12:34] <elkbuntu> +1 from me based on loco contact work
[12:35] <aamachu> Hi team
[12:35] <aamachu> elkbuntu, is it happening here?
[12:36] <hubuntu> of course Ubuntu-ec and -no are in focus all the time
[12:36] <hubuntu> as I am interested in local participation and getting a community around both LoCo teams
[12:36] <aamachu> persia, there?
[12:37] <persia> aamachu: Indeed.  Just trying to digest the volume of content.
[12:37] <aamachu> I got disconnected for a while
[12:37] <persia> Actually, I'm going to give up: I reached the point where I'd post +1 a while back, and am just being curious at this point :)
[12:37] <hubuntu> I should have made that page a bit shorter I reckon
[12:37] <persia> hubuntu: Great work, excellent documentation of that work, and supreme testimonials.
[12:38] <TheMuso> persia, elkbuntu, agreed. +1 from me also. Some wonderful work here.
[12:39] <hubuntu> thanks for your work too, I've seen many of you around and your work for the Ubuntu community is great!
[12:42] <hubuntu> so is that a yes? Doesn't amachu have to vote?
[12:42] <persia> hubuntu: Indeed: we like to hear from everyone present.
[12:43] <hubuntu> I have not brought many people here for many reasons but I guess there are people present that have seen me around...
[12:44] <hubuntu> and can maybe give some testimony of my deeds (all good and not so good are welcome ;)
[12:45] <hubuntu> hey, meisk
[12:46] <hubuntu> I work with meisok in ubuntu-es and CUPIE (Ubuntu-classroom and chat in Spanish)
[12:46] <meisk> yes, I confirm
[12:47] <meisk> hubuntu: help me all, in various projects
[12:47] <meisk> (sorry for my bad english..)
[12:47] <hubuntu> asac is been bothered by me lately regarding network-manager and mbca...
[12:48] <meisk> hubuntu: creates doc, and work for the spanish comunity
[12:49] <hubuntu> doc.ubuntu-es.org is the documentation site for the whole Spanish community, run mainly by Ubuntu-es and all other LoCo teams
[12:50] <TheMuso> aamachu: We are looking over hubuntu's application.
[12:50] <asac> what application is that? (what meeting is right now?)
[12:50] <hubuntu> ubuntu membership
[12:50] <hubuntu> I'm not becoming a MOTU any time soon ;)
[12:51] <asac> ok. i can ack that hubuntu has been active in the network manager mobile broadband wizard effort recently.
[12:52] <TheMuso> persia, elkbuntu. Thoughts? Where shall we go from here?
[12:52] <asac> if he has been around longer in other teams in a similar fashion, then that would make a +1 from me
[12:53] <persia> amachu: Do you have a working network connection now?
[12:53] <aamachu> yes.. but its discontinuos
[12:53] <persia> aamachu: Can you vote on hubuntu?
[12:57] <asac> (i just read his wiki page and like it :))
[12:58] <hubuntu> (thanks asac, I haven't read yours but I like your work with nm and ff :)
[12:59] <aamachu> persia, the connection is discontinuos
[12:59] <aamachu> i noticed the log, and the wiki of hubuntu
[12:59] <aamachu> the contributions are commendable
[13:00] <persia> Any questions?
[13:02] <TheMuso> no
[13:02] <hubuntu> please, go ahead if anything should be unclear
[13:03] <persia> Well, according to the math we discussed last time, we may not need to wait for amachu's vote, but given that amachu is the secretary, it's someone important to have confirmation that the conclusion is agreed.
[13:13] <persia> Right.  Would anyone else be willing to volunteer as secretary in light of amachu's network issues?
[13:14] <aamachu> persia, I will ensure a good ISP
[13:14] <aamachu> :-)
[13:16] <persia> aamachu: OK.  How do you vote on hubuntu?  May we welcome him as a member?
[13:17] <amachu> Yes
[13:17]  * hubuntu is happy :)
[13:17] <tuxmaniac> aamachu: I recommend/suggest you get a freeshell? In such a scene you wont be msising much discussion
[13:17] <amachu> I had sent the message, but to be missed again by disconnection
[13:18] <persia> Excellent.  Are there any other items for discussion this evening?
[13:18] <hubuntu> thank you... I am an Ecuadorian, living on Norway approved to become an Ubuntu member by the AsiasOceania board
[13:18] <amachu> tuxmaniac: the power problem in Tamilnadu, i the major cause
[13:18] <hubuntu> We are truly a global community !
[13:18] <amachu> I need to have wireless.
[13:18] <hubuntu> *AsiaOceania
[13:18] <amachu> persia: others din't turn around?
[13:19] <persia> amachu: There were four of us tonight.  Three positive votes whilst you were being disconnected.  No other candidates or board members joined.
[13:20] <amachu> persia: yes. I was referring to candidates registered
[13:23] <amachu> that being the case
[13:23] <amachu> we shall wind up the day..
[13:23] <amachu> persia: there?
[13:23] <persia> amachu: Usually.
[13:24] <amachu> amireldor & svaksha there?
[13:24] <amachu> fine then..
[13:25] <amachu> We will conclude today's meeting
[13:25] <TheMuso> sounds good
[13:25] <amachu> hubuntu: Best wishes! and all the best for Team Eucador..
[13:26] <hubuntu> Thank you
[13:26] <persia> hubuntu: congratulations!
[13:26] <hubuntu> :)
[13:26] <amachu> Thank you all for participating!
[13:30] <amachu> Our next meeting will be on 09 Sep 08, 11.00 AM UTC
[15:53]  * nijaba waves
[15:53] <zul> hi
[15:53] <sommer> hey all
[15:59] <mathiaz> good ...insert-your-time-of-day-here... all ! How is everyone doing ?
[15:59] <kirkland> mathiaz: howdy
[15:59] <kirkland> mathiaz: i'm particularly recharged
[16:00] <nijaba> kirkland: scotch full?
[16:00] <zul> too much thistle?
[16:00] <kirkland> nijaba: ales too :-)
[16:00] <nijaba> :)
[16:00] <Koon> o/
[16:01] <nealmcb> o/
[16:01]  * jdstrand waves
[16:01] <mathiaz> allright - let's get this started
[16:01] <mathiaz> #startmeeting
[16:02] <soren> o/
[16:02] <nijaba> [Meeting started]
[16:02] <mathiaz> Today's agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
[16:02] <soren> MootBot: Feel free to enter the game any time you find it convenient.
[16:03] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting.
[16:03] <mathiaz> Last week meeting notes: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Roadmap
[16:03] <mathiaz> Last week meeting notes: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20080826
[16:03] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Ubuntu VM builder
[16:03] <mathiaz> soren: did you upload something new ?
[16:03] <soren> I did indeed.
[16:04] <soren> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+queue?queue_state=0&queue_text=vm-builder
[16:04] <mathiaz> nijaba: did you get a chance to review the new package ?
[16:05]  * nijaba just started working on the tutorial today.
[16:05] <mathiaz> nijaba: are you using soren's bzr branch ?
[16:05] <soren> nijaba: It should be mostly compatible with the old one.
[16:05] <soren> I have a transition plan for when it's completely compatible.
[16:05] <nijaba> mathiaz: yes
[16:06] <nijaba> soren: yep, I'll send you a few notes later on that subject
[16:06] <soren> Cool.
[16:06] <mathiaz> sommer: did you get a chance to look at the package also ?
[16:06] <soren> nijaba: Any regressions from u-v-b to v-b should be considered bugs.
[16:06] <sommer> mathiaz: not yet, still on the list though
[16:07] <mathiaz> soren: have you wrote a blog post about your release ?
[16:07] <nijaba> soren: so far, only finding regression with my intrepid branch
[16:07] <mathiaz> soren: or advertise the upload somewhat ?
[16:07] <nijaba> mathiaz: he did on his blog, IIRC
[16:07] <mathiaz> soren: or you're waiting for the package to get through NEW ?
[16:07] <soren> mathiaz: I will when it's actually in the archive.
[16:08] <soren> I've announced stuff before their actual availability before... IRC was no fun for the next few days.
[16:08] <nijaba> http://warma.dk/blog/article/90/
[16:08] <mathiaz> [ACTION] soren to write a blog post about vm-builder once it's available in the archive
[16:09] <mathiaz> [ACTION] sommer to update the virtualization section of the server guide with references to the new ubuntu-vm-builder
[16:09] <nijaba> there is also going to be a feature in the gss newsletter
[16:09] <mathiaz> nijaba: awesome
[16:09] <nijaba> (first edition of a newsletter going out to support customers)
[16:09] <mathiaz> nijaba: where do you plan to push your tutorial ?
[16:09] <nijaba> mathiaz: wiki once I have a first valid draft
[16:10] <nijaba> mathiaz: h.u.c
[16:10] <mathiaz> nijaba: great - should we also write up something for the UWN ?
[16:10] <mathiaz> (once it's in the archive)
[16:10]  * nealmcb cheers
[16:11] <nijaba> mathiaz: why not, but my to do is a bit full atm, so it may take a bit for me to write it
[16:11] <nijaba> any volunteers?
[16:11] <mathiaz> [ACTION] nijaba to write a tutorial on vm-builder and put on the help wiki (h.u.c/community)
[16:12] <nealmcb> I"d think UWN would just want a link to soren's post?
[16:13] <mathiaz> nealmcb: seems like a good option
[16:13] <mathiaz> soren: could you ping UWN once you've published your post ?
[16:13] <soren> mathiaz: How do I do that, exactly?
[16:13] <nealmcb> but the more posts/viewpoints the better, of course
[16:14] <mathiaz> boredandblogging: is your man
[16:14] <soren> (Wow, it took me 5 seconds to type "exactly")
[16:14] <soren> mathiaz: Ah, right. Will do.
[16:14] <mathiaz> soren: great !
[16:15] <mathiaz> [ACTION] soren to ping UWN editor to get a paragraph about vm-builder in UWN
[16:15] <mathiaz> soren: anything else to report on the vm-builder front ?
[16:15] <soren> Probably, but I think I'll save that for my blog post. :)
[16:15] <mathiaz> soren: thanks
[16:15] <mathiaz> let's move on
[16:16] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Tomcat6 server stack support
[16:16] <mathiaz> Koon: thanks for writing the post
[16:16] <mathiaz> Koon: I've published it on ubuntuserver.w.com
[16:16] <Koon> np, a couple of nice reactiosn already
[16:16] <mathiaz> Koon: what's the state of the patches ?
[16:17] <mathiaz> Koon: it seems most of them have been sponsored
[16:17] <Koon> the remaining two are the conflictual ones
[16:17] <Koon> so it's more doko's decision
[16:18] <Koon> as our java platform master, he dedcides
[16:18] <mathiaz> Koon: do they pull in a lot of dependencies ?
[16:19] <Koon> there are two remaining bugs
[16:19] <Koon> bug 249178 has two aspects
[16:19] <Koon> one is that it pulls a full java runtime, that needs to be fixed and is undisputed
[16:20] <Koon> the other is that by recommending libecj-java-gcj you get a full GCJ runtime with it
[16:20] <mathiaz> Koon: right - I'm more interested by the space it may take on the isos
[16:20] <Koon> and at the moment it means a few X libraries through a libgcj9-0-awt recommend in libgcj9-0
[16:21] <mathiaz> Koon: although we have a lot of spaces left on the -server isos, it seemed that there are a lot of deps pulled in
[16:21] <Koon> the other remaining bug is bug 261847 - this one pulls a lot through a libnss-mdns recommend in openjdk-6-jre-headless
[16:22] <Koon> i'm not really sure what is not already on the server iso though.
[16:22] <mathiaz> Koon: ok - it's under discussion for now and the right person is involved
[16:22] <doko> Koon: I'm back, looking at the latter. I'll fix the former as indicated in the bug report
[16:22] <Koon> doko: great ! thx
[16:23] <mathiaz> ok - let's move on
[16:23] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Review ServerGuide for Intrepid
[16:23] <mathiaz> sommer: any news on the apache2 section from jjesse ?
[16:24] <sommer> mathiaz: haven't heard from him about that section yet
[16:24] <sommer> I added a  support section though
[16:25] <sommer> I think it covers what dendrobates wanted, but if not just let me know
[16:25] <mathiaz> sommer: http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/serverguide/C/ubuntu-support.html ?
[16:25] <sommer> mathiaz: yep, that's it
[16:26] <kirkland> i still owe sommer a review of the RAID stuff in there...  i'll get to it this week
[16:26] <sommer> heh, cool... the ldap sections are all updated for cn=config as well
[16:26] <mathiaz> [ACTION] kirkland to review the RAID section of the server guide
[16:27] <mathiaz> sommer: I'll take a look at the cn=config stuff
[16:27] <sommer> mathiaz: great thanks
[16:27] <mathiaz> [ACTION] mathiaz to review the ldap section of the server guide
[16:28] <sommer> I think that's pretty much all the news from me :)
[16:28] <mathiaz> sommer: great !
[16:28] <mathiaz> sections of the server guide that can be reviewed are listed in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IntrepidServerGuide
[16:29] <mathiaz> and reviews can be made from http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/serverguide/C/
[16:30] <mathiaz> sommer: could you update the roadmap mentionning the review work ?
[16:30] <nealmcb> sommer, is there a section in other ubuntu guides on support?  seems like the story is the same for all editions
[16:30] <sommer> mathiaz: sure, will do
[16:30] <nealmcb> except for the lenght of time it is supported
[16:31] <mathiaz> sommer: so that potential contributors can dive in quickly
[16:31] <sommer> nealmcb: nope that's a new section
[16:31] <mathiaz> [ACTION] sommer to specify the review work on the Roadmap
[16:31] <nealmcb> and e.g. desktop guide doesn't mention it?
[16:32] <mathiaz> nealmcb: you may wanna ask the ubuntu-doc team about it
[16:33]  * nealmcb nods
[16:33] <sommer> nealmcb: ya, it may just have never came up before, or at least the commercial side of things
[16:33] <mathiaz> nealmcb: the desktop guide is actually used by yelp - so I'm not sure if it would be usefull there
[16:33] <nealmcb> mathiaz: ?
[16:34] <mathiaz> nealmcb: hm - it's up to the desktop guide author - I think the ubuntu-doc team is the best ressource to ask
[16:35] <mathiaz> let's move on.
[16:35]  * nealmcb nods
[16:35] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] # Server survey: official server online, call for volunteers for a last test and to prepare annoucement.
[16:35] <mathiaz> nijaba: ^ ?
[16:35] <nijaba> IS has finally provided us with a host for the server survey! \o/
[16:35] <nijaba> I should have a RC of the survey by the end of the week
[16:35] <nijaba> I would need some volunteers to check that everything is fine before the launch and start the announce as planned on the wiki.
[16:35] <nijaba> I think a good launch date could be mon sept 22nd.
[16:36]  * sommer volunteers
[16:36] <mathiaz> nijaba: great ! I think owh was interested in that
[16:36] <mathiaz> nijaba: you may wanna get back to him
[16:37] <mathiaz> nijaba: should volunteer just email you ?
[16:37] <nijaba> mathiaz: sure
[16:38] <mathiaz> nijaba: great - anything else on this subject ?
[16:38] <nijaba> mathiaz: not unless someone has something to add
[16:39] <mathiaz> nijaba: did you add some questions to the survey ?
[16:39] <mathiaz> nijaba: or the questions are the same as the ones back in may ?
[16:39] <nijaba> mathiaz: yes I did add the question from Redmonk, our partner, still waiting for something from Intel
[16:40] <nijaba> but the survey will not be delayed further waiting for this
[16:40] <mathiaz> nijaba: ok. Thanks.
[16:40] <mathiaz> let's move on to review the Roadmap
[16:41] <mathiaz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Roadmap#Documentor%20corner
[16:41] <mathiaz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Roadmap
[16:41] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] UFW Package Integration
[16:41] <mathiaz> jdstrand: what's the state ?
[16:41] <mathiaz> jdstrand: it seems that things are moving well - most of the packages have been updated
[16:42] <jdstrand> ufw was uploaded before feature freeze
[16:42]  * nijaba hugs didrocks and nxvl for their work - awesome
[16:42] <jdstrand> also, thanks to didrocks and nxvl, all packages from the server tasksel list have been updated
[16:43] <jdstrand> and uploaded before FF
[16:44] <mathiaz> jdstrand: great - so I guess that's we're done for this cycle on the package integration front
[16:44] <mathiaz> jdstrand: ie we're not trying to add support for ufw to more packages
[16:44] <jdstrand> mathiaz: mostly-- there I a couple bugs to fix, but they are not FF dependent
[16:44] <jdstrand> s/I/are/
[16:45] <mathiaz> jdstrand: ok - is there anything to be done on the documentation front ?
[16:45] <nijaba> mathiaz: integration with ufw is a feature or a bug?
[16:45] <mathiaz> nijaba: a feature
[16:45] <nijaba> if the former, then we are stuck, right
[16:45] <jdstrand> but, yeah, we are in good shape. I think didrocks is planning on working on squid and postgresql
[16:46] <jdstrand> nijaba: I have been considering it a feature-- but at this point it is no more that a Suggests and a file dropped in /etc/ufw/applications.d
[16:46] <jdstrand> nijaba: caused I started using dpkg triggers. so additional packages could probably get an easy FFe
[16:47] <mathiaz> jdstrand: is the content of the server guide up-to-date ?
[16:47] <nijaba> jdstrand: cool to know. so we may get a few addt'l packages before release
[16:47] <mathiaz> jdstrand: I notice there is a section about "ufw Application integration"
[16:47] <nijaba> Koon: did you add the definition for ufw in Tomcat?
[16:47] <jdstrand> nijaba: if you want to add some suggested packages to ServerTeam/Roadmap#UFW Package Integration, then maybe people will pick them up. I'd be happy to sponsor them
[16:47] <Koon> nijaba: no
[16:48] <jdstrand> mathiaz: I haven't reviewed it, but sommer and I talked about it some last week
[16:48] <nijaba> jdstrand: adding Tomcat then ;)
[16:48] <sommer> jdstrand: mathiaz: yep, I made a few adjustments based on our discussion
[16:49] <mathiaz> sommer: great ! :)
[16:49] <mathiaz> anything else to add wrt to ufw ?
[16:49] <jdstrand> sommer: can you point me to it? I added a new option with the dpkg triggers changes, but it likely won't change anything you've done
[16:49] <jdstrand> mathiaz: as always, test and report bugs :)
[16:50] <mathiaz> jdstrand: http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/serverguide/C/firewall.html
[16:50] <sommer> jdstrand: ^^ yep
[16:50] <jdstrand> cool
[16:50] <mathiaz> jdstrand: are you planning to do a review of the section ?
[16:50] <jdstrand> mathiaz: yes
[16:51] <mathiaz> [ACTION] jdstrand to review the firewall section of the ubuntu server guide
[16:51] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Open Discussion.
[16:51]  * nijaba added tomcat and libvirt to the ufw package integration list
[16:52] <jdstrand> nijaba: hmm, libvirt will be hard cause of nat...
[16:52] <mathiaz> As you know, we're passed FeatureFreeze now - so we're shifting our efforts on bug fixing
[16:52] <mathiaz> and testing
[16:52] <jdstrand> nijaba: soren and I have had some discussions about it, but I haven't come up with something good yet
[16:53] <mathiaz> alpha5 is also scheduled for thursday
[16:53] <nijaba> jdstrand: ok, I guess you are the best judge.
[16:53] <nijaba> but that would be very nice
[16:53] <mathiaz> so iso testing will be done in the next two days
[16:53] <jdstrand> oh I agree, but the ufw command doesn't do nat yet at all
[16:53] <nijaba> specially if that can be done at the same time kirkland's meta packages get in
[16:54] <nijaba> I would call for a ****group hug of mathiaz****, whom has been shaken a bit lately on ubuntu-devel.  It was way too hard for all the good work that was put to it.
[16:55]  * kirkland hugs
[16:55]  * nijaba hugs mathiaz
[16:55] <jdstrand> nijaba: for nat and other fancy stuff, need to update /etc/ufw/*rules manually, there *may* be an improvement on that front, if the gui-ufw folks have anything to say about it
[16:55]  * Koon hugs mathiaz
[16:55]  * zul hugs mathiaz
[16:55]  * sommer also gives matiaz a big hug
[16:55]  * jdstrand gives mathiaz a big hug
[16:55]  * nealmcb hugs mathiaz and neilw for moving things forward on the rubygems front
[16:56] <mathiaz> thanks guys ! :)
[16:56] <nijaba> yes, neilw deserves a hug as well!
[16:56] <mathiaz> anything else ?
[16:57]  * nealmcb wonders about mail and spam stuff - updates from scottk?
[16:58] <mathiaz> @schedule
[16:59] <mathiaz> nealmcb: it seems that all of the MIR have been written
[16:59] <mathiaz> nealmcb: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ClamavSpamassassinInMain
[16:59] <nealmcb> :)
[16:59] <nijaba> \o/
[16:59] <mathiaz> sommer: wrote most of them
[16:59]  * nealmcb hugs sommer
[16:59]  * nijaba too
[17:00]  * nealmcb sends props to scottk
[17:00] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time.
[17:01] <mathiaz> next week, same place, same time ?
[17:01] <sommer> oh ya, that project should be good
[17:01] <nijaba> +1
[17:01] <Koon> wfm
[17:01] <sommer> me too :)
[17:02] <mathiaz> exzellentes - see ya all next week - don't forget iso testing of alpha5 images !
[17:02] <mathiaz> #endmeeting
[17:02] <nijaba> thanks for another great meeting mathiaz
[17:02] <sommer> thanks mathiaz, later on all
[17:17] <thorwil> dholbach: hi there! i will see to be here for the CC. instead of going to bed when i should :)
[17:17] <dholbach> thorwil: in a session right now, sorry
[22:01] <sabdfl> evening all
[22:01] <sabdfl> CC meeting now in progress
[22:01] <sabdfl> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
[22:02] <sabdfl> who's here? i see elmo ;-)
[22:02] <elmo> we seem a bit light on CC people
[22:02] <thorwil> word
[22:03] <elmo> the only other one I can even see on IRC is mdke, I've pinged him
[22:03] <sabdfl> you and i are total heavyweight's, though ;-)
[22:05] <thorwil> well, my agenda item comes down to a question to you, sabdfl. brought it here as one can say it is about process ;)
[22:06] <sabdfl> let's hear it then
[22:06] <thorwil> sabdfl: from the talk page: the central question is: Will sabdfl be ready to approve, modify or criticise such guidelines? If not, what is seen as the problem with this proposal?
[22:06] <sabdfl> it's a good proposal
[22:07] <thorwil> thanks
[22:07] <sabdfl> we've already approved the idea that there should be at least two, completely / largely community-designed themes in default ubuntu
[22:07] <sabdfl> i reserve the right to have a strong hand in selecting those
[22:07] <sabdfl> but would be delighted to see a community-owned process defining them
[22:07] <sabdfl> as to the default
[22:07] <sabdfl> i would like to see community participation in that
[22:07] <thorwil> work is in progress, but i do have some problems with strategic goals and audience, as neither gerry carr nor kenneth can help me there
[22:07] <sabdfl> in the past, i've spent a lot of energy trying to setup tools for icon management, for example
[22:08] <sabdfl> to get participation
[22:08] <sabdfl> we are in the process of hiring a lead designer
[22:08] <sabdfl> and i will look to that person to define the look and feel of the default theme
[22:08] <sabdfl> community participation in *extending* that theme will be welcomed
[22:08] <sabdfl> and community participation / leadership / definition of the other two themes is welcomed too
[22:08] <sabdfl> does that help?
[22:09] <thorwil> kinda
[22:09] <sabdfl> in terms of audience, i think we have to aim for young professionals who are web-savvy
[22:09] <thorwil> now that is helpful
[22:11] <thorwil> is there more in the realm of strategic goals for ubuntu that you could tell me about?
[22:11] <thorwil> things that are not clear from the philisophy?
[22:12] <thorwil> sabdfl: and suppose i and anyone whi might help me do a really good job with these guidelines, would you given them your official blessing?
[22:13] <thorwil> i think it would be important to give it extra weight in the artwork community
[22:14] <thorwil> while actually have the default presentation in mind, all this should be as good for an also ran
[22:14] <sabdfl> if we are ambitious, we want to serve all human beings
[22:14] <sabdfl> right?
[22:15] <sabdfl> can't let apple have all the fun ;-)
[22:15] <sabdfl> so, the only reason i focused on young web-savvy professionals is they will be the standard-bearers for taking ubuntu to a wider audience
[22:15] <sabdfl> and they are probably attracted to particular ideas in design
[22:15] <sabdfl> like the iphone used web 2.0 ideas
[22:16] <thorwil> sabdfl: troy sobotka will be delighted. he haas been talking about aiming at designers and young professionals
[22:19] <thorwil> well, i guess i will see if i can define my skeleton guidleines enough to pusblish them to the artwork community. and also have to see if it can be aligned with the icon theme project Cory K. just started
[22:20] <thorwil> thanks and good night!
[22:20] <sabdfl> yw!
[22:20] <sabdfl> elmo: aob?
[22:20] <elmo> not that I'm aware of
[22:20] <sabdfl> thorwil: good luck and I hope your mission is a success!
[22:21] <thorwil> thanks!
[22:21] <sabdfl> i wouldn't describe anything on the CD as an also-ran, btw ;-)
[22:21] <sabdfl> ok, thanks folks
[22:22] <elmo> shortest actually CC meeting evar
[22:22]  * mdke cheers