[12:56] <highvoltage> @schedule
[12:56] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 31 Jan 20:00: Edubuntu | 31 Jan 22:00: Xubuntu | 31 Jan 23:00: Kubuntu | 01 Feb 21:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 05 Feb 20:00: Mozilla Team | 07 Feb 12:00: Edubuntu
[02:39] <Hobbsee> @schedule sydney
[02:39] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 01 Feb 07:00: Edubuntu | 01 Feb 09:00: Xubuntu | 01 Feb 10:00: Kubuntu | 02 Feb 08:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 06 Feb 07:00: Mozilla Team | 07 Feb 23:00: Edubuntu
[05:11] <nixternal> @schedule chicago
[05:11] <Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Chicago: 31 Jan 14:00: Edubuntu | 31 Jan 16:00: Xubuntu | 31 Jan 17:00: Kubuntu | 01 Feb 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 05 Feb 14:00: Mozilla Team | 07 Feb 06:00: Edubuntu
[05:12] <phanatic> @schedule Amsterdam
[05:12] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Amsterdam: 31 Jan 21:00: Edubuntu | 31 Jan 23:00: Xubuntu | 01 Feb 00:00: Kubuntu | 01 Feb 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 05 Feb 21:00: Mozilla Team | 07 Feb 13:00: Edubuntu
[06:47] <ryanakca> @schedule Toronto
[06:47] <Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Toronto: 31 Jan 15:00: Edubuntu | 31 Jan 17:00: Xubuntu | 31 Jan 18:00: Kubuntu | 01 Feb 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 05 Feb 15:00: Mozilla Team | 07 Feb 07:00: Edubuntu
[08:51] <pirast> @schedule Berlin
[08:51] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: Current meeting: Edubuntu | 31 Jan 23:00: Xubuntu | 01 Feb 00:00: Kubuntu | 01 Feb 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 05 Feb 21:00: Mozilla Team | 07 Feb 13:00: Edubuntu
[09:00] <RichEd> evening all
[09:00] <pips1> hi
[09:00] <cbx33> evening RichEd pips1
[09:01] <RichEd> ogra ... you around ?
[09:01] <ogra> indeed
[09:01] <pips1> hello AliasVegas
[09:01] <cbx33> hey ogra get my really large email?
[09:01] <AliasVegas> Hi Guys! ^_^
[09:01] <cbx33> oooh nice smiley babes
[09:01] <highvoltage> hi AliasVegas, cbx33, pips1 ogra and RichEd
[09:01] <AliasVegas> hehe
[09:02] <highvoltage> RichEd: I did the same today, but I feel relieved instead ;)
[09:02] <RichEd> hi AliasVegas good to "see" you :)
[09:02] <rodarvus> good evening all
[09:02] <RichEd> hello rodarvus :)
[09:02] <highvoltage> ho rodarvus
[09:02] <pips1> hey rodarvus
[09:02] <highvoltage> hi, even :)
[09:02] <ogra> cbx33, yes, but i didnt look at the package yet
[09:02] <rodarvus> hey guys :)
[09:02] <ogra> cbx33, i read the first 4 pages during a break thoough
[09:03] <cbx33> oooh look ok?
[09:03] <ogra> there is some stuff you will need to correct, but all over its very good, kudos
[09:03] <cbx33> please say yes
[09:03] <cbx33> yes....i knew there would be
[09:03] <cbx33> hence why I was so desperate for you to read over it
[09:03] <ogra> you got some facts wrong, but thats easy to fix
[09:03] <cbx33> haha
[09:03] <cbx33> in which section?
[09:03] <ogra> nothing harmful
[09:03] <cbx33> outta interest?
[09:03] <cbx33> without too much detail
[09:04] <ogra> well, you start off with me being the project leader of edubuntu :)
[09:04] <ogra> i'm onl ythe tech lead
[09:04] <cbx33> oh i see
[09:04] <RichEd> Well ogra you are the lead of Edubuntu indeed :)
[09:04] <cbx33> i thought i said that
[09:04] <ogra> and you shouldnt use nfs servers for time syncronization ... that wont work
[09:04] <ogra> :)
[09:05] <RichEd> Your the chief product lead, I'm just the hand wavy education guy.
[09:05] <RichEd> *You're
[09:05] <ogra> heh, nah ...
[09:05] <cbx33> ogra, hahahaha
[09:05] <RichEd> Looks like a good turnout for the meeting tonight - hope we can get through the necessary in less than 2 hours or before I doze off, whichever comes sooner.
[09:05] <cbx33> I didn't mean NFS
[09:05] <highvoltage> ogra: you can't run away, we've got you in a corner now!
[09:05] <ogra> anyway, lets quickly run through the tech section
[09:05] <cbx33> i meant NTP
[09:05] <RichEd> Shall we kick off ... with (drum roll) Oliver on Tech !
[09:05] <pips1> RichEd: that term 'hand waving' really stuck with me, ever since I heard you use it (in Mountainview)
[09:06] <ogra> specs:
[09:06] <ogra> edgy-plusone-thinclient-sound: missing one main inclusion for alsa-plugins, apart from that it's done and rocking the house :)
[09:06] <Maikel> @schedule amsterdam
[09:06] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Amsterdam: Current meeting: Edubuntu | 31 Jan 23:00: Xubuntu | 01 Feb 00:00: Kubuntu | 01 Feb 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 05 Feb 21:00: Mozilla Team | 07 Feb 13:00: Edubuntu
[09:07] <Maikel> Sorry..
[09:07] <ogra> ltsp-management-gui: python-ltsp (the backend module) is about done, still have to do the gui rewrite .. will start over the weekend
[09:07] <ogra> student-control-panel-upgrade: well, see petes blog
[09:07] <ogra> its soooo sexy !!!!!!
[09:07] <cbx33> it's going well
[09:08] <cbx33> and the rewrite of the DES encyrption bit switcher worked
[09:08] <cbx33> so we can now ship VNC stuff
[09:08] <cbx33> which was in jeperdy at one point
[09:08] <ogra> edubuntu-network-auth-server: the thing im fighting with since i came back from oslo, spec will need a bunch of changes and the auth server will only be set up for new installs for now
[09:08] <highvoltage> cbx33: very nice stuff
[09:08] <cbx33> AliasVegas, and I have to go at 9 today....but we do have some artwork updates...
[09:08] <nixternal> oi!
[09:08] <ogra> we wont be able to use the planned frontend, its simply to buggy
[09:09] <cbx33> :(
[09:09] <ogra> i'm lookinf for something in replacement atm
[09:09] <RichEd> mr nixternal .. hey hey
[09:09] <ajmitch> which frontend?
[09:09] <ajmitch> edsadmin?
[09:09] <ogra> we could take lat which is considered for upstream inclusion at some point as well
[09:09] <ogra> ajmitch, yep
[09:09] <ajmitch> hm, lat is nice but may be complex
[09:10] <ajmitch> plus we need to fix the package so it builds
[09:10] <ogra> after using it extensively for one week i saw more chrashes that i would have expected
[09:10] <ogra> it will be some major work to get it to a level where we could ship it as default
[09:10] <ajmitch> unfortunate
[09:10] <ogra> i havent seen any crashers with lat yet
[09:11] <ajmitch> 1.2.x FTBFS
[09:11] <ogra> but i extremely dislike its UI
[09:11] <ogra> so i'm still looking around
[09:11] <ajmitch> oh that's a simple fix, I'll do that now
[09:11] <highvoltage> UI sounds like something cbx33 is good at, so that will probably be the next phase :)
[09:11] <ajmitch> if you could check out lat 1.2.x, it may be an improvement over 1.0.7
[09:11] <cbx33> heheh
[09:12] <ogra> highvoltage, well, lat is mono
[09:12] <cbx33> ogra, and...
[09:12] <cbx33> heheh
[09:12] <cbx33> I can learn mono
[09:12] <cbx33> heheh
[09:12] <ogra> and edsadmins UI is fine it just explodes all the time
[09:12] <ajmitch> C# is easy :)
[09:12] <highvoltage> 333/win 3
[09:12] <highvoltage> fefefe
[09:12] <nixternal> hahaha
[09:12] <nixternal> ok, now I am gone
[09:13] <highvoltage> ew
[09:13] <highvoltage> oops, sorry
[09:13] <ogra> anyway, edubuntu-network-auth server should be done before feature freeze, even though it moght not yet be the ful specced variant
[09:13] <ogra> edubuntu-auth-client will either be ajmitch's login tool ... but i dont know the status
[09:13] <ogra> or a static config that points to the local edubuntu server for now
[09:13] <ajmitch> mostly there, I've got a few spare days
[09:14] <ajmitch> public holiday in a couple of days :)
[09:14] <ogra> important for me with these two specs is that we got all bits and pieces in this time  ...
[09:14] <cbx33> only a week left
[09:14] <ajmitch> plus you were going to do a metapackage that asks debconf questions & preseeds?
[09:14] <ogra> we can improve beyond basic authentication over the releases
[09:14] <ajmitch> I guess that'll have to come once I ship this for you
[09:14] <Mithrandir> (we're about a week from creature freeze, uh, feature freeze)
[09:14] <ajmitch> Mithrandir: yep, I know :)
[09:14] <ogra> ajmitch, i'm doing a udeb for feisty ...
[09:14] <cbx33> Mithrandir, tell me about it
[09:14] <cbx33> :p
[09:15] <ajmitch> ogra: ok, using debconf?
[09:15] <ogra> ajmitch, which will then do the preseeding
[09:15] <ogra> yep
[09:15] <ajmitch> great
[09:15] <ajmitch> define what you need preseeded & I'll grab that
[09:15] <ogra> essentially i dropped the metapackage idea for feisty ... its just to big but i want at least an ldap server in place
[09:15] <ajmitch> ok
[09:16] <ogra> else development will get stuck in feisty+1 .... too much of our future plans depends on network auth
[09:16] <ajmitch> using smbldap, I expect
[09:16] <ogra> i was planning to, but if that doesnt make FF, i'm also fine with a simple ldap auth ...
[09:16] <ajmitch> ah right
[09:17] <cbx33> ogra, ++ about the future plans
[09:17] <cbx33> hehe
[09:17] <ogra> the chorus here is "network authentication" no matter how ...
[09:17] <ajmitch> I'll get this client stuff done & working before I offer to help with server this week
[09:17] <ogra> we can improve in the future, having a working skeleton is the start for that ...
[09:18] <highvoltage> ogra++ about network authentication policy!
[09:18] <cbx33> ogra, I'm gonna need details of whatever we do for the book
[09:18] <cbx33> heheh
[09:18] <cbx33> but then you'll see where we are once you've read it all
[09:18] <highvoltage> ogra: I've found that easy painless authentication isn't too bad with sshfs, even though it uses fuse, wich may put off some people
[09:19] <rodarvus> highvoltage, not sure I understand the reasoning for that?
[09:19] <ajmitch> ogra: ok, I'll get this stuff in a day or two, no matter what :)
[09:20] <ajmitch> I have to run off to work now
[09:20] <rodarvus> (fuse being a reason for people to be scared)
[09:20] <highvoltage> rodarvus: it's basically for exporting a filesystem to a client that's booting from a seperate /
[09:20] <highvoltage> rodarvus: ah
[09:21] <rodarvus> :)
[09:21] <rodarvus> (but I might be missing something, of course)
[09:23] <rodarvus> (ogra is likely timed out, btw)
[09:23] <rodarvus> his connection, I mean
[09:23] <RichEd> i was wondering
[09:24] <cbx33> dang it
[09:24] <Burgwork> ogra, ajmitch: lat has major crashing issues
[09:24] <RichEd> Anybody with any other tech news in the meanwhile ?
[09:24] <RichEd> rodarvus do you want to let people know about your moodle packaging efforts ?
[09:25] <rodarvus> I do, but I'd like ogra to be here
[09:25] <RichEd> okie ... anyone else ?
[09:25] <cbx33> don't think so
[09:25] <rodarvus> since he raised a point on wwwconfig-common I'm interested in hearing
[09:25] <cbx33> hey UbaGeek
[09:25] <UbaGeek> hey cbx33
[09:25] <UbaGeek> this is cool
[09:25] <RichEd> I'll introduce the moodle bit then ... we're trying our best to get moodle integrated into Main for Edubuntu.
[09:26] <RichEd> I was in LCA a week or so ago, and met Martin Douigiamas, the founder of moodle.
[09:26] <RichEd> He is keen for us to succeed, and to work on spreading both products as a bundle.
[09:27] <RichEd> LAMS and moodle are also looking at integration and interoperability, and LAMS are also keen to see a Edubuntu / moodle / LAMS easy install bundle.
[09:27] <cbx33> RichEd, this is all going to be awesome
[09:27] <cbx33> ogra, must get hacked off with his net connection
[09:28] <RichEd> The good news for us is that many people want moodle and LAMS as a resource tool, and just want a stable server underneath. That means we can get into libraries and universities and schools even if they are using other distros on the server and desktop space.
[09:28] <cbx33> yup
[09:29] <RichEd> moodle is also working on a "moodle cloud" where you can set your server up and join a voluntary clound, and when a user authenticates against any singel server, they are free to move across all servers with the same log-in.
[09:29] <RichEd> *cloud
[09:29] <RichEd> so our steps are: #1 bundle moodle with main
[09:30] <Burgwork> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionReportMoodle
[09:30] <Burgwork> that needs to be dealt with
[09:30] <RichEd> rodarvus is busy with that, he'll give an update when ogra is back
[09:30] <rodarvus> I can start my technical overview on the process
[09:30] <rodarvus> but would like ogra to be here
[09:31] <RichEd> step#2 will be a Edubuntu/moodle/database single CD .iso - easy intall, minimal questions and config
[09:31] <cbx33> can we skip to artwork?
[09:31] <cbx33> in a sec
[09:31] <cbx33> as lisa and I only have 30 mins left
[09:31] <RichEd> so we hope that moodle will recommend our image as being the simplest up & go option.
[09:31] <Burgwork> RichEd: for that we need to create a moodle task, I suspect
[09:32] <Burgwork> cbx33: go
[09:32] <rodarvus> actually, more than that, what I would like to see (or do, even) is a graphical installation/configuration tool for moodle
[09:32] <RichEd> yep, but moodle will cooperate and we can chew it from both ends.
[09:32] <pips1> Burgwork: 'moodle task' = ?
[09:32] <cbx33> http://www.progbox.co.uk/group.jpg - meet the new feisty edubuntu homies
[09:32] <Burgwork> rodarvus: better to have the graphical client be a web-based thingy, I suspect
[09:32] <Burgwork> pips1: using tasksel for the installer
[09:32] <RichEd> and step#3 will be LAMS but that will be feisty+1 or +2
[09:33] <highvoltage> pips1: debian terminology ;)
[09:33] <RichEd> cbx33: you can go ahead ...
[09:33] <cbx33> AliasVegas, has been hard at work
[09:33] <rodarvus> Burgwork, its kind of a chicken and egg problem, but can be dealt with
[09:33] <pips1> Burgwork: ta
[09:33] <AliasVegas> lol
[09:33] <pips1> cbx33, AliasVegas niiiice
[09:33] <Burgwork> rodarvus: if you install the moodle server, you get asked for an IP and then told to go to that IP with your workstation
[09:33] <cbx33> pips1, -cbx33
[09:33] <cbx33> hehe
[09:34] <rodarvus> Burgwork, I'm talking about the server configuration, to be honest
[09:34] <Burgwork> rodarvus: for that we could use debconf
[09:34] <rodarvus> which is not trivial, and currently is our main point of headaches
[09:34] <rodarvus> Burgwork, we do
[09:35] <pips1> AliasVegas: I really like the way they poke fun with the 'victory' sign :_D
[09:35] <rodarvus> but lets move to artwork, and get back to moodle when ogra is here
[09:35] <AliasVegas> heheh :P
[09:35] <rodarvus> otherwise we'll have to discuss this twice :)
[09:35] <Burgwork> indeed
[09:36] <cbx33> hey willvdl
[09:36] <willvdl> hey, sorry I'm late
[09:36] <rodarvus> (but rationale is: some of the configuration is waaaay beyond what you'd do from inside debconf)
[09:36] <RichEd> there goes ogra ... me waves
[09:37] <froud> hey willvdl
[09:37] <willvdl> hey
[09:37] <AliasVegas> The clock idea for the ldm login screen has been put on hold till next release....not enough time to complete the code for the clock and it seems like a better idea to do it when the clock can be included
[09:37] <cbx33> AliasVegas, ++
[09:37] <cbx33> basically I'm too lazy
[09:38] <AliasVegas> pips1: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuArtwork/Palette
[09:38] <cbx33> that was the idea pips1
[09:39] <cbx33> and it will happen
[09:39] <cbx33> just not for feisty
[09:39] <pips1> *click*
[09:39] <pips1> wow
[09:39] <willvdl> pips1, I think it's very cool
[09:39] <Burgwork> pips1: looks great. Clean
[09:40] <cbx33> yes pips1 Great Work
[09:40] <cbx33> hehehe
[09:40] <RichEd> we were also talking about the possibility of making the message board realtime ... for school wide news and announcements
[09:40] <AliasVegas> :P
[09:40] <willvdl> gdesklet style :)
[09:40] <cbx33> RichEd, yes an MOTD system was something AliasVegas and I were keen to do
[09:40] <pips1> cbx33 :-P
[09:40] <pips1> hehe
[09:40] <RichEd> looks slick & clean
[09:40] <cbx33> and we thought the clock woud give it a nice look
[09:40] <cbx33> and something dynamic too
[09:40] <cbx33> but that's for feisty + 1
[09:41] <cbx33> so...
[09:41] <highvoltage> would be nice if a teacher could choose all the widgets and place them like gdeskletts, but that's of course way off :)
[09:41] <cbx33> yes
[09:41] <AliasVegas> any comments on the latest artwork?? http://www.progbox.co.uk/group.jpg
[09:42] <pips1> highvoltage: nice imagination! :)
[09:42] <RichEd> AliasVegas: very anime ... quite hip :)
[09:42] <AliasVegas> thanks RichEd
[09:43] <cbx33> ogra, wb
[09:43] <highvoltage> AliasVegas: well, I don't know if you read the original comments about edubuntugirl, some people might have a problem about where the girl's one hand is
[09:43] <pips1> AliasVegas: I like the expressions on their faces (especially the smirk of the guy)
[09:43] <ogra> *SIGH*
[09:43] <highvoltage> AliasVegas: but it's quite cool :)
[09:43] <RichEd> welcome back ogra
[09:43] <willvdl> for the record, I did inquiries into artwork contributions. did anything come through on the ML?
[09:43] <pips1> highvoltage: shock! horror! ;-)
[09:43] <ogra> ok, i just discovered a bug in edubuntu-auth-server :)
[09:43] <AliasVegas> the guy isnt finished yet
[09:43] <RichEd> ogra: we're going through artwork ... 'cos alias and pete need to dash
[09:44] <cbx33> AliasVegas, can you repost the link for ogra
[09:44] <AliasVegas> this is what i have been workin on since 10am
[09:44] <AliasVegas> lol
[09:44] <RichEd> then back to ogra and rodarvus will give us a moodle update
[09:44] <AliasVegas> ogra http://www.progbox.co.uk/group.jpg
[09:44] <ogra> did you guys contact kwii or did he contact you for artwork ?
[09:44] <cbx33> nope had no contact
[09:44] <ogra> hes the hired designer who will do all designs now it seems
[09:44] <pips1> !!
[09:44] <highvoltage> kwii, that's a kde wii emulator, right? right!?
[09:44] <willvdl> ogra, not cliff?
[09:45] <pips1> highvoltage: LOL
[09:45] <cbx33> ogra, when was this decided?
[09:45] <ogra> highvoltage, dont say that to him :) i think he's tired of hearing it ;)
[09:45] <Riddell> ogra: kwwii
[09:45] <ogra> cbx33, no idea when mark decided to make it final
[09:45] <willvdl> cbx33, remember two meeitngs back? the debate around feisty art contributions?
[09:45] <ogra> ken had done the kubuntu artwork in edgy
[09:45] <highvoltage> ogra: heh, ok
[09:45] <cbx33> willvdl, yes
[09:46] <cbx33> but there was no outcome as far as I knew
[09:46] <ogra> Riddell, ah, thanks ...
[09:46] <pips1> AliasVegas: I like the girls hair (on the left): nice shape and tones
[09:46] <AliasVegas> thanks pips1
[09:46] <ogra> cbx33, did you send the mail to ubuntu-art we talked about some meetings ago ?
[09:46] <AliasVegas> highvoltage: can you elaborate on the girls hand comment for me? : )
[09:47] <cbx33> ogra, i thought I had but didn't see it on the archive
[09:47] <ogra> that would be where kwwii would pick you up ...
[09:47] <cbx33> I'll mail him later
[09:47] <ogra> anyway, i'll try to get him to #edubuntu once
[09:47] <ogra> or that, even better
[09:47] <kwwii> evening
[09:47] <pips1> hello kwwii
[09:47] <willvdl> speak of the devil :)
[09:47] <ogra> heh, speaking of the devil
[09:47] <cbx33> ah hi kwwii
[09:47] <willvdl> snap
[09:47] <kwwii> a little bird told me to join
[09:47] <cbx33> kwwii...was just coming to look for you
[09:47] <cbx33> :p
[09:48] <kwwii> ;-)
[09:48] <ogra> kwwii, meet cbx33 and AliasVegas, our edubuntu artists :)
[09:48] <RichEd> what's the frequency kenneth  ?
[09:48] <ogra> Riddell, thanks for that ;)
[09:48] <kwwii> ogra, cbx33, AliasVegas, hi
[09:48] <AliasVegas> hi kwwii
[09:48] <kwwii> RichEd: original :p
[09:49] <cbx33> kwwii, so....where do we stand for artwork on edubuntu ;)
[09:49] <highvoltage> AliasVegas: heh, keep it like it is. I think it's fine. I also find emails like this amusing: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-devel/2005-October/000628.html
[09:49] <highvoltage> AliasVegas: so bring it on!
[09:49] <cbx33> we were just discussin this
[09:49] <cbx33>  http://www.progbox.co.uk/group.jpg
[09:49] <kwwii> cbx33: well, until now I have only discussed working on the login screen with ogra
[09:49] <AliasVegas> highvoltage: heheh thatnks!! ^_^
[09:49] <kwwii> cbx33: it would depend on what needs to be done
[09:50] <kwwii> until now it is unclear to me how tied to ubuntu edubuntu is, art-wise
[09:50] <ogra> kwwii, we usually ship a default wallpaper with a kids wallpaper alongside ... http://www.progbox.co.uk/group.jpg would be a kids variant ...
[09:50] <ogra> kwwii, login window, gnome splash, wallpaper(s)
[09:50] <ogra> thats usually what we change ...
[09:51] <kwwii> ogra: well, I will be working on Ubuntu and Kubuntu stuff anyway, so I guess some of that work could end up in edubuntu as well, if there is a desire to do it
[09:51] <ogra> right
[09:51] <kwwii> mainly, if we pick one look the hardest part is filling in all the pieces
[09:51] <ogra> thats why AliasVegas should coordinate it with you
[09:52] <kwwii> sounds great
[09:52] <ogra> edubuntu has a it more freedom to be more colorful and fresher ...
[09:52] <kwwii> we can discuss that offline, if it is not pertinent to this meeting
[09:52] <ogra> even though we start targeting older audience ...
[09:52] <highvoltage> ogra: perhaps this is not the right meeting for this, but isn't it possible that there would be a kubuntu edubuntu metapackage at some point, perhaps edubuntu should have a KDM theme as well?
[09:52] <ogra> kwwii, right ...
[09:53] <kwwii> sorry for disturbing :-)
[09:53] <ogra> highvoltage, i'd like to leave that to some kedubuntu people
[09:53] <ogra> kwwii, you never disturb, you know that :)
[09:53] <highvoltage> heh
[09:53] <ogra> highvoltage, your ressouces are to small to care for multiple DEs
[09:53] <rodarvus> kedubuntu!
[09:53] <kwwii> if we could somehow come to a state where all the *buntu's shared the same look it would be really easy ;-)
[09:54] <ogra> and if i would care for a second one my choice would be xfce for now
[09:54] <highvoltage> ogra: true, but often it's just a fact of life and we have to deal with it ^_^
[09:54] <ogra> simply because the request fr it is bigger in the edu landscape
[09:54] <kwwii> one set of SVGs with a makefile like "make blue"
[09:54] <ogra> and a script that only adjusts the color values :)
[09:54] <willvdl> kwwii, can you do that with svg?
[09:54] <ogra> easily
[09:55] <kwwii> I actually had something like that running for suse a long time ago
[09:55] <kwwii> ;-)
[09:55] <willvdl> useful
[09:55] <ogra> willvdl, you can edit svg with a text editor
[09:55] <rodarvus> I believe you can even embed js inside an svg
[09:55] <ogra> yep
[09:56] <ogra> you guys should probably schedule an artwork meeting or somethng like that
[09:56] <cbx33> ogra, already happeneing
[09:56] <ogra> if anything on the packaging side is needed, feel free to abuse me :)
[09:57] <cbx33> hehe
[09:57] <cbx33> oh i will
[09:57] <pips1> so the result is: kwii will coordinate with AliasVegas
[09:57] <ogra> right
[09:57] <ogra> and with me if it comes to technical details
[09:58] <AliasVegas> alrighty ^_^
[09:58] <ogra> is that it for artwork ? i'D like to finish tech ...
[09:58] <AliasVegas> Yep
[09:58] <cbx33> yes
[09:58] <cbx33> sorry ogra
[09:58] <pips1> AliasVegas: keep up the nice work, and tell us if kwwii is nasty, then we will gang up on him! ;-)
[09:58] <ogra> great, where did i stop ... edubuntu-network-client will either be ajmitch's tool or a static setup ...
[09:59] <AliasVegas> pips1: hehe thankyou!
[09:59] <ogra> during the crash i had some mins ago i found an evil bug with udev .... i have to examine that but it might stop edubuntu-auth-server from feisty ... :/
[10:00] <RichEd> pity :/
[10:00] <ogra> well, lets see
[10:00] <rodarvus> ouch
[10:00] <ogra> udev needs userauthentication and groupauthentication if it creates the initial devices
[10:00] <pips1> 8-O
[10:01] <ogra> that cant be there at this point if we are our own server (there is no filesystem mounted yet)
[10:01] <ogra> its probably solveable through an easy setting or something ... but its a bug i didnt expect
[10:02] <ogra> and it locked me out completely, so i needed a liveCD to recver
[10:02] <ogra> *recover
[10:02] <ogra> nothing i'd want to bother our testers with
[10:02] <highvoltage> ogra: just call it a random security feature
[10:02] <ogra> ok, something positive .....
[10:02] <ogra> edubuntu-on-two-cds
[10:02] <Mithrandir> uh, why can't it map unauthenticated accesses to nobody?  That should be enough to get you started.
[10:03] <ogra> Mithrandir, will look, i havent dug through all the nsswitch options yet
[10:03] <ogra> thanks for the pointer
[10:03] <ogra> :)
[10:03] <ogra> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/current/
[10:03] <ogra> edubuntu-on-two-cds ^^^^
[10:03] <pips1> yay
[10:03] <highvoltage> :-D
[10:03] <ogra> WE HAVE 650MB SPARE SPACE !!!!
[10:04] <ogra> (only on the server iso though)
[10:04] <willvdl> put in a wikipedia snapshot
[10:04] <willvdl> that should do it :)
[10:04] <ogra> the gnome-app-install hook is still missing
[10:04] <ogra> so the CD only starts up synaptic atm
[10:04] <rodarvus> ogra, not for long ;)
[10:04] <ogra> but even with that i'D be happy to go ;)
[10:04] <highvoltage> ogra: even that is a major improvement
[10:05] <rodarvus> cheers
[10:05] <highvoltage> bye rodarvus
[10:05] <ogra> ltsp-fat-clients: the one spec i wouldnt care to defer
[10:05] <rodarvus> no, I'm not leaving :)
[10:05] <ogra> if the auth-server makes it, it wil be implemented as well
[10:05] <rodarvus> (I meant "cheers" as "way to go!")
[10:05] <willvdl> highvoltage, he's drinking :)
[10:06] <ogra> all pieces apart from network aouth are implemented
[10:06] <highvoltage> willvdl: ah, of course, he's brazillian
[10:06] <rodarvus> nah, just coke
[10:06] <rodarvus> and poor command of english
[10:06] <ogra> but if that one desnt make it i wil drop fat clients as well
[10:06] <highvoltage> fat clients was always dependent on auth
[10:06] <ogra> ltsp-persistent-home: deferred
[10:07] <highvoltage> it's easy to hack up for an administrator who really, really wants it, at least
[10:07] <willvdl> ogra, I'm rusty on the spec for fat-client, is that a network booted diskless fat?
[10:07] <ogra> better-moodle-integration: rodarvus is packaging moodle 1.7 atm ...
[10:07] <ogra> thats al about tech
[10:07] <rodarvus> my turn, then
[10:07] <cbx33> phew that's a lot
[10:07] <Burgwork> we were talking about how to configure the moodle server
[10:07] <ogra> willvdl, thats a netbooted workstation
[10:07] <willvdl> ogra, cool
[10:08] <rodarvus> as RichEd said on his introduction to the moodle subject, I'm working on properly packaging moodle for main
[10:08] <ogra> Burgwork, not differently from the defaults now ... we need a safe upgrade path
[10:08] <Burgwork> ah
[10:08] <rodarvus> this task is twofold: removing the usage of wwwconfig-common from the postinst/postrm/prerm scripts
[10:08] <RichEd> [ Burgwork: the simple CD .iso will be a next step ]
[10:08] <rodarvus> and, since we want to have a very close relationship with upstream (and for security reasons)
[10:09] <rodarvus> I'm also working on the update of our moodle package for the latest version
[10:09] <rodarvus> the rationale is we base our package on debian's, which is version 1.6.3
[10:09] <ogra> which should essentially only be a replacement of the orig.tar.gz ...
[10:09] <ogra> right
[10:09] <rodarvus> debian has frozen main, so won't have a new version for a while
[10:09] <rodarvus> ogra, no, it isn't
[10:09] <ogra> oh, why is that ?
[10:09] <rodarvus> database schema is different, for instance
[10:10] <ogra> ah
[10:10] <rodarvus> moodle 1.7.0 (.1, actually) is quite an upgrade from 1.6.x
[10:10] <rodarvus> various new modules, and added features
[10:10] <ogra> i only knew about added utf8 support
[10:10] <rodarvus> no :)
[10:10] <rodarvus> wait a sec, I'll grab the list
[10:11] <willvdl> A db schema change is quite drastic isn't it?
[10:11] <ogra> yes it is :/
[10:11] <rodarvus> Roles - Moodle has a complete new architecture for assigning people permissions.
[10:11] <rodarvus> XML database schema - Moodle now supports a single way of specifying database structures using XML
[10:11] <ogra> thats something we need to sort in our new upstream relationship
[10:11] <rodarvus> New admin interface
[10:11] <rodarvus> and
[10:11] <rodarvus> Unit testing framework
[10:11] <rodarvus> (various other small features too)
[10:11] <rodarvus> but these are the big ones
[10:12] <willvdl> how would the unit testing framework affect users?
[10:12] <rodarvus> it won't
[10:12] <rodarvus> its for developers only
[10:12] <rodarvus> but as moodle is quite extensible, we might see many users adding their own modules for added spice on their courses/seminars
[10:13] <willvdl> rodarvus, not tech doc yet, but is their documentation up to date?
[10:13] <rodarvus> it is
[10:13] <willvdl> gooood
[10:13] <ogra> they have awesome docs
[10:13] <rodarvus> willvdl, but unfortunately, I was not able to link it to yelp :/
[10:13] <ogra> moodle is one of the best docced apps i've seen so far
[10:13] <rodarvus> they have great docs, and a dedicated (?) person for that
[10:14] <rodarvus> what they are (unfortunately) lacking is on quality code, regarding security
[10:14] <rodarvus> moodle has had 13 secunia issues in the last two years
[10:14] <rodarvus> two of them are open for moodle 1.6.x
[10:14] <ogra> well, its php ...
[10:14] <ogra> what would you expect
[10:14] <rodarvus> to be sincere, I'm not confident on what will be the response of pitti to our MIR
[10:15] <rodarvus> ogra, indeed, it resembles mediawiki a lot, on this regard
[10:15] <ogra> we will urely get restrictions
[10:15] <highvoltage> ogra: I hear the main ubuntu.com site is going to be driven by php soon
[10:15] <ogra> like i did for pulseaudio
[10:15] <willvdl> drupal, yeah
[10:15] <rodarvus> ogra, indeed, which takes me to the question you asked me on email, this morning (regarding how I dropped wwwconfig-common)
[10:15] <ogra> its not allowed into -desktop
[10:15] <ogra> but its allowed into main, so i can use it in ltsp
[10:16] <rodarvus> I basically reimplemented all the scripts manually, based on what they were doing from inside wwwconfig-common
[10:16] <ogra> rodarvus, i'd still like to see that scripts :)
[10:16] <rodarvus> but parts of the scripts (the parts related to postgresql) are changing for 1.7
[10:16] <rodarvus> ogra, sure
[10:16] <rodarvus> nothing out of extraordinary, to be honest
[10:16] <ogra> yes, please focus on 1.7 ... i will try to get a FF exception if one is needed
[10:17] <pips1> rodarvus: The new roles feature in 1.7.1 has caused our moodle admin quite a big headache. he upgraded from 1.6.4 and ended up with automatic course subscriptions of students that weren't supposed to be there... I think that problem still persists in moodle upstream :-/
[10:17] <rodarvus> ogra, I *really* don't think it will be needed
[10:17] <ogra> rodarvus, worst case ... you never know
[10:17] <rodarvus> (unless we have huge problems, which I haven't had yet)
[10:17] <rodarvus> right
[10:17] <willvdl> "worst case ... you never know" ... lol
[10:18] <rodarvus> pips1, right. this is one of my worries (and the reason why it is not a trivial orig.tar.gz upgrade)
[10:18] <rodarvus> there isn't really much we can do, apart from either:
[10:18] <rodarvus> 1. having a separate package for moodle 1.6 and 1.7
[10:18] <rodarvus> or
[10:18] <rodarvus> 2. ignoring upgrade users (which I don't think will happen :P )
[10:18] <ogra> 1. is fine with me
[10:18] <ogra> we divert from debian anyway
[10:19] <rodarvus> nice
[10:19] <willvdl> seeing as tis is the first time we package moodle with our release, can we not work around that with good docs?
[10:19] <ajmitch> rodarvus: did you not consider using dbconfig-common?
[10:19] <rodarvus> that is on my plans too, if we find out upstream is not supporting database schema updates properly
[10:19] <ogra> so people wanting to use 1.6 can get the debian upgrades as long as they fix 1.6
[10:19] <rodarvus> ajmitch, no, I didn't, to be sincere
[10:19] <ajmitch> ok, that's been promoted as a replacement for wwwconfig-common
[10:19] <ajmitch> afaik
[10:20] <ajmitch> sorry to tell you about it after the work has been done :)
[10:20] <rodarvus> nice!
[10:21] <rodarvus> (its less useful for 1.7, if we don't support upgrades from 1.6, but nice, still :) )
[10:22] <rodarvus> anyhow, this is my tech update for moodle, unless someone has comments or questions
[10:22] <ogra> sounds great !
[10:22] <pips1> rodarvus: will moodle run on the edubuntu server by default?
[10:23] <rodarvus> RichEd can probably give more details on this regard, I think (from his conversations with upstream)
[10:23] <ogra> thats the plan
[10:24] <ogra> edubuntu will be a fully fledged setup with all server apps we promote ...
[10:24] <ogra> so its easy to make derivatives by switching off parts
[10:24] <cbx33> :)
[10:24] <ogra> edubuntu itself sould always have all features we put effort in :)
[10:24] <ajmitch> rodarvus: I'm just filing a sync request for dbconfig-common now to get the latest, 1.8.30 has some useful fixes :)
[10:24] <willvdl> so moodle goes on server install but not workstation install right?
[10:24] <ogra> to show off with integration ;)
[10:25] <ogra> right
[10:25] <rodarvus> willvdl, yes, no reason to have it on workstataion installs
[10:26] <ogra> it wont be on the desktop CD and not in wrokstation installs ...
[10:26] <ogra> only on the first server CD
[10:26] <willvdl> did I miss TCM BTW?
[10:26] <ogra> with a default config
[10:26] <highvoltage> willvdl: try channel 7
[10:26] <pips1> has there been any thinking about integrating user administration of edubuntu and moodle? or is that feisty+5 ? :)
[10:27] <rodarvus> one thing I talked briefly with Burgwork and others is about a (theoric) tool for extra configuration of moodle
[10:27] <rodarvus> would be nice for us to collaborate with upstream on this regard
[10:27] <ogra> willvdl, 09:07	ogra	student-control-panel-upgrade: well, see petes blog
[10:27] <Burgwork> pips1: for that you would need an ldap plugin for moodle
[10:27] <ajmitch> Burgwork: there's probably one floating around
[10:27] <rodarvus> there are various little configurations and tweaks on moodle which could benefit from that
[10:27] <ogra> pips1, afaik there are ldap integartion bits for moodle ...
[10:27] <ajmitch> Burgwork: google shows me docs for it :)
[10:28] <ogra> that would be a good feisty+1 target ;)
[10:28] <willvdl> ogra, thanks
[10:28] <Burgwork> ajmitch: right, figured it would be likely
[10:28] <Burgwork> rodarvus: see the first run config stuff of wildfire (the jabber server)
[10:28] <Burgwork> it is quite slick
[10:28] <ajmitch> ogra: could you tell me later (after meeting I guess) just what you need for pam_mount config for network auth?
[10:29] <rodarvus> Burgwork, will do, thanks!
[10:29] <rodarvus> but imho, these configs are not stuff for a "first run", but instead, configurations which can be enabled/tweaked by administrators wanting advanced features
[10:30] <ogra> ajmitch, i'm not sure i need anything yet ... that will depend if i do samba integration now or in feisty+1
[10:30] <Burgwork> actually, "do you want user stuff stored in moodle or ldap" is a first run question
[10:30] <ogra> with nfs mounts there shouldnt be any modifications necessary
[10:30] <ajmitch> ogra: assuming you need it now, I want to be prepared
[10:30] <ajmitch> ok
[10:30] <pips1> Burgwork: good point
[10:31] <ogra> anyway, lets not get the tech stuff to big ... reports are done
[10:32] <pips1> :-)
[10:32] <pips1> can't wait to lay my hands on feisty
[10:32] <ogra> pips1, lets see if we are aces *on time*
[10:33] <pips1> heh
[10:33] <Burgwork> indeed
[10:33] <ogra> thats thew more worring bit atm
[10:33] <ogra> feature freeze is near
[10:33] <pips1> RichEd: ping?
[10:34] <pips1> oh oh, seems all that tech talk sent someone to sleep alright ;-)
[10:34] <ogra> what did you covere apart from artwork while i tried to get back into my system ?
[10:34] <ogra> *cover
[10:35] <willvdl> RichEd has a bad lag. Shall we move to docs?
[10:35] <willvdl> just phoned me
[10:35] <pips1> nothing, apart from nixternal piping in that he makes a promise to work on docs this weekend
[10:35] <ogra> feel free, i'm done
[10:36] <pips1> willvdl: ?
[10:36] <willvdl> rodarvus, about moodle docs
[10:36] <willvdl> how will it integrate at the mo
[10:37] <willvdl> if not in yelp
[10:37] <rodarvus> well, not with yelp, unfortunately. I tried to hack a script to merge moodle docs into yelp xml, but failed miserably
[10:37] <ogra> willvdl, they are contained in moodle
[10:37] <rodarvus> apart from that, they are html files
[10:37] <rodarvus> contained in moodle, as ogra said
[10:37] <willvdl> context help in moodle
[10:37] <ogra> afaik if you install them they show up as a module
[10:37] <froud> rodarvus: what is src for moodle docs?
[10:37] <willvdl> OK, so we don't have to consider anything special for it on or off-line?
[10:37] <ogra> froud, moodle upstream
[10:37] <froud> wiki
[10:38] <froud> moin
[10:39] <willvdl> any thoughts on an install doc? vs having it in handbook?
[10:39] <rodarvus> froud, basic html
[10:39] <rodarvus> created by moodle upstream
[10:39] <rodarvus> not sure if they use something else to create it
[10:40] <froud> rodarvus: isn't there a round trip script from wiki to db and back in ubuntu-doc
[10:40] <rodarvus> (might be a good idea to talk with them on the subject)
[10:40] <froud> rodarvus: html 2 db is a hard one
[10:40] <RichEd_> hi guys - sorry other machine is hanging on me
[10:41] <rodarvus> froud, it *might* be, but I think it is created specifically for use inside moodle, and not for a common wiki
[10:42] <rodarvus> (hmm, no - mediawiki with heavy plugin usage)
[10:42] <pips1> hold on, aren't you guys talking about two different things? there is a documentation that comes as a moodle module (static html), and there is a work-in-progress online documentation wiki, right?
[10:42] <froud> rodarvus: http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/Html2DocBook
[10:42] <froud> It's not 100% fire and forget though
[10:43] <rodarvus> pips1, this is right
[10:43] <pips1> are you now talking about packaging up the work-in-progress wiki doc?
[10:44] <pips1> froud: ? :)
[10:44] <froud> pips1: I think we speaking on both
[10:44] <froud> 1. module
[10:44] <rodarvus> I'm saying that the static docs are positively not wiki, but I'm not sure if they are generated from a mediawiki or such, by the moodle documentation person
[10:44] <froud> 2. wiki
[10:45] <cbx33> sorry just popping in on docs....
[10:45] <rodarvus> (*and* that I will talk with him to get more info on that)
[10:45] <willvdl> cbx33, are TCM docs a load of work?
[10:45] <pips1> right, oki
[10:45] <cbx33> willvdl, not really
[10:45] <froud> rodarvus: let me know if I can help in some nice way
[10:45] <cbx33> and most of it will be written for the edubuntu chapter in the ubuntu book anyway
[10:46] <cbx33> so I can just hack it up a bit
[10:46] <willvdl> cnx33, will you have yelp integration?
[10:46] <cbx33> well I 'll rewrite/hack up...not sure if my editor will like me just copying the text from the book
[10:46] <froud> rodarvus: as I recollect, yelp does read HTML, no?
[10:46] <ogra> i guess you need one screenshot per fuction and one explanatory sentence
[10:47] <cbx33> ogra, if you can just check through that doc and make changes where necessary that'll be a great help
[10:47] <ogra> that shoud be enouhg
[10:47] <cbx33> ogra, exactly
[10:47] <cbx33> infact the handbook already has a lot
[10:47] <cbx33> and all the screenshots were done
[10:47] <cbx33> got to dash now
[10:47] <cbx33> see y'all later
[10:47] <cbx33> thanks ogra
[10:47] <RichEd_> bye cbx33
[10:47] <willvdl> cbx33, ciao
[10:47] <RichEd_> thanks
[10:47] <ajmitch> bye cbx33
[10:47] <ogra> ciao cbx33
[10:47] <cbx33> bye ajmitch RichEd willvdl ogra
[10:48] <ogra> think abou tthat we need to update screenshts with the final artwork
[10:48] <cbx33> ye
[10:48] <cbx33> s
[10:48] <cbx33> ogra, screenshots are not done for the book yet
[10:48] <ogra> ah, ok
[10:48] <cbx33> and most of the tcm/scp are done of tiny potions which don't change much
[10:48] <willvdl> maybe even a screencast? :)
[10:48] <cbx33> could do
[10:49] <popey> \o/ screencasts
[10:49] <popey> hi cbx33
[10:49] <rodarvus> froud, it reads xml
[10:49] <froud> rodarvus: yes, but also HTML
[10:49] <rodarvus> but anyhow, nice - help is always appreciated :)
[10:49] <willvdl> froud, I don't think it does read html
[10:49] <willvdl> not like khelp
[10:50] <froud> willvdl: hmmm then they took support for it out
[10:50] <rodarvus> it expects XML, using the specific DTD used by the gnome documentation, afaik
[10:50] <AliasVegas> bye guys!
[10:50] <willvdl> AliasVegas, ciao
[10:50] <froud> shame getting moodle docs in would have been simple scrollkeeper touch if yelp still supported it
[10:50] <froud> will try yelp an html page please I am on kde
[10:51] <froud> willvdl: can you try yelp an html page please I am on kde
[10:51] <cbx33> bye AliasVegas
[10:51] <willvdl> froud looking
[10:51] <pips1> bye AliasVegas
[10:51] <froud> willvdl: try that nepad eschools page you built today
[10:52] <willvdl> trying to point yelp to a url...
[10:52] <froud> try page on disk
[10:52] <willvdl> built that on kde :)
[10:53] <froud> it will also build on gnome
[10:53] <rodarvus> froud, willvdl: "Yelp serves as a DocBook viewer, a man page viewer, and an info page viewer. This page serves as a development workspace for Yelp and gnome-doc-utils. For the content that goes into Yelp, see the GNOME DocumentationProject."
[10:53] <willvdl> it does read html
[10:53] <rodarvus> http://live.gnome.org/Yelp
[10:53] <willvdl> just did drag and drop of html file into it
[10:53] <froud> willvdl: thx
[10:53] <froud> rodarvus: yes that is what they say, but reality is not the same
[10:54] <pips1> heh
[10:54] <froud> rodarvus: hence you can take moodle html and package it
[10:54] <froud> then just update scrollkeeper
[10:54] <willvdl> simple omf pointer right?
[10:55] <froud> willvdl: yes
[10:55] <froud> this could save many hours
[10:55] <willvdl> anyhoo
[10:55] <rodarvus> you mean scrollkeeper would be able to index an html file?
[10:55] <rodarvus> that would be great news
[10:55] <froud> but may create issues for l18n
[10:55] <willvdl> maybe not index it
[10:55] <willvdl> sorry, ignore me
[10:55] <rodarvus> well, if not index it, I don't see the point of opening moodle documentation from inside yelp
[10:55] <rodarvus> (unless I'm missing something else)
[10:56] <rodarvus> in this case, yelp would be a simple html browser
[10:56] <willvdl> unless linked from the front page...
[10:57] <froud> rodarvus: scrollkeeper does no index it just keeps track of docs when they are registered with it
[10:57] <froud> rodarvus: yelp will search the html though, I think I recollect that
[10:57] <rodarvus> and yelp is far from good at parsing generic html - it has a very weak html parser
[10:58] <froud> rodarvus: choose your poison, round trip or tweak :-)
[10:58] <willvdl> well lets see if it does work, otherwise a context system within moodle is good enough?
[10:58] <rodarvus> froud, what I mean is, imho, the real reason to use yelp as a moodle help viewer would be to have the help contents properly indexed and linked
[10:58] <rodarvus> froud, heh
[10:58] <willvdl> rodarvus, agree
[10:59] <froud> is there a use case for this? sorry I am missing info
[10:59] <rodarvus> otherwise, it just makes more sense to browse the documentation from inside moodle - since moodle will be running on firefox or similar most (all?) of the time
[10:59] <froud> hence my question on the use case
[11:00] <froud> effort vs reward
[11:00] <willvdl> let's take this offline?
[11:00] <froud> np
[11:00] <rodarvus> agreed
[11:00] <ogra> sounds good
[11:00] <ogra> Ubugtu is pushy
 meeting is over, or rather, should be!
[11:01] <willvdl> pips1, you around tomorrow?
[11:01] <pips1> willvdl: yep
[11:01] <cellofellow> oops. got messed up on the time. I'm so late.
[11:01] <rodarvus> next would be community?
[11:01] <ogra> anything left ?
[11:02] <willvdl> pips1, cool, just want you to proof something
[11:02] <rodarvus> (RichEd I guess, but his connection is laggy)
[11:02] <maxamillion> well, its two minutes past ... i think we can wait a couple more for others to show up for the Xubuntu meeting
[11:02] <ogra> well, seems there is a xubuntu meeting starting now, we're over time
[11:02] <RichEd_> ogra: not from my side ... will do the conference sttuff next weeek
[11:02] <RichEd_> thanks all
[11:02] <rodarvus> thanks guys
[11:02] <ogra> thanks all
[11:02] <pips1> thanks
[11:02] <willvdl> thansk
[11:03] <RichEd_> pips1: will chat with you tomorrow
[11:03] <pips1> ok
[11:03] <pips1> time?
[11:03] <RichEd_> same time
[11:03] <pips1> morning? afternoon?
[11:03] <pips1> ah
[11:03] <pips1> 4 pm UTC
[11:03] <RichEd_> yep.
[11:03] <Jester45> hello
[11:03] <pips1> willvdl: what about you?
[11:03] <pips1> morning? afternoon?
[11:04] <willvdl> #edubuntu then quick?
[11:04] <pips1> ok
[11:04] <willvdl> cool. ciao all
[11:04] <maxamillion> Everyone here for Xubuntu meeting?
[11:04] <Jester45> i am
[11:04] <philth> aye!
[11:05] <vidd_laptop> yes
[11:05] <cellofellow> I guess. :P
[11:05] <vidd_laptop> if they are not, they can stay anyway
[11:06] <maxamillion> ok .... current time on my irssi window says 2206UTC so I guess we shall begin
[11:06] <vidd_laptop> what is first on the meeting agenda?
[11:06] <maxamillion> Cody was not able to make the meeting today so he asked me to attempt to provide some direction and touch on a few key points that need to be discussed
[11:07] <maxamillion> first item up is Documentation efforts and their current state of organization
[11:07] <maxamillion> Maximilian1st: welcome
[11:07] <cellofellow> occasional gobby sessions aren't exactly organized.
[11:07] <Maximilian1st> Hi max
[11:07] <maxamillion> for the sake of Maximilian1st ....
[11:07] <Maximilian1st> thanks
[11:07] <maxamillion> first item up is Documentation efforts and their current state of organization
[11:07] <Maximilian1st> :-)
[11:08] <vidd_laptop> who is "the man" as far as documentation?
[11:08] <maxamillion> vidd_laptop: that i don't know ....
[11:08] <maxamillion> but here is a wiki break down of documentation as it stands ... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Documentation/Wiki?highlight=%28xubuntu%29
[11:10] <maxamillion> i think we should find a more organized way for contributors to "sign up" for sections they would like to work on and that way showing other users what parts of the official documentation are already being worked on (also, if you are to work on a section that someone else is working on please be in contact with them so we aren't doing work over again)
[11:10] <maxamillion> thoughts, questions, comments?
[11:11] <vidd_laptop> a lot, anyway'
[11:12] <vidd_laptop> to the point thaT some instructions say to use "gedit"
[11:12] <vidd_laptop> are we going to have a complete and seperate section of documentation...like kubuntu does?
[11:13] <maxamillion> it is, but there are alot of Xubuntu specifics that go into our documentation that aren't a part of theirs such as network configuration, basic UI customization, etc. ... the differences have to do with the xfce DE and the applications Xubuntu uses compared to ubuntu
[11:14] <maxamillion> yes, we are ... just like we did with dapper (apparently it got skipped because lack of man power for docs... a problem we don't want to have happen again)
[11:15] <maxamillion> ok, for sake of momentum can we agree to find a way to implement a structured wiki sign up for documentation sections?
[11:16] <vidd_laptop> agreed
[11:17] <maxamillion> next order of business is Artwork ... there is deadline 1 coming up for artwork, which i believe JMak is in charge of, but it doesn't appear that he is here so I think I will email him about it later
[11:17] <maxamillion> moving along is Herd 3 Testing and the new testing procedure https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/ReportingResults
[11:19] <maxamillion> Again, just as we had with the Herd2 testing I think we will have a sign up on the wiki for where users can sign up for what they would like to participate with but I think all results should be submitted via the requested procedure found the wiki link i just posted about the new testing
[11:19] <Jester45> time for release?
[11:20] <maxamillion> Jester45: very good question ... sadly I lack the answer, but I'm pretty sure it is coming up soon ... it will be announced in #xubuntu, one the -devel and -users mailing lists, on xubuntu.org in the news feed section, and on ubuntuforums.org when it does happen
[11:21] <vidd_laptop> when are we going to acually see the new default icon sets and themes?
[11:21] <maxamillion> I will speak with Cody tonight and see if we can get a wiki setup similar to the one for Herd2 but compensate for the new testing style
[11:22] <maxamillion> vidd_laptop: i am under the impression that is what the artwork deadline is about, so i am personally hoping for herd3 image to have them
[11:22] <maxamillion> vidd_laptop: that question also kinda ties into the next order of business ...
[11:22] <maxamillion>     *
[11:23] <maxamillion>       How can we improve the default Xubuntu settings (ie. panel setup, applet setup, etc.)? How can we learn from other Xfce4 based distros to improve our default settings/setup?
[11:23] <maxamillion> thoughts, questions, comments?
[11:24] <vidd_laptop> i think we should go to the "one taskbar" setup, and incluse a menu bar similar to dapper, as opposed to edgy
[11:24] <maxamillion> this is where community input is most needed in my opinion, because its the community that is going to use it daily and endorse it personally, so why not make it what you want? (or atleast as close to what _you_ want as long as the group can come to a neutral agreement)
[11:24] <Jester45> i think it should stay the same
[11:25] <Jester45> one thing i would really like is a drag/drop menu
[11:25] <maxamillion> i think it should stay the way it is too ... alot of what people enjoy about the current setup is its uniformity with Ubuntu and with the general look of Gnome, which i think is a positive thing
[11:25] <Maximilian1st> As a simple user I use a single panel centered on the bottom. If that can help you out a bit.
[11:25] <Jester45> so you can drag the links around to your best use
[11:25] <vidd_laptop> we should reinstate the terminal, file manager and "run" on the menu
[11:26] <maxamillion> Jester45: don't quote me on this, but i think you might be able to do that in Xfce4.4-stable which is in feisty
[11:26] <Jester45> maxamillion: then no need to add that:)
[11:26] <Jester45> Maximilian1st: i think there should still be a top bar to hold the menu and firefox
[11:27] <maxamillion> vidd_laptop: yes, i agree ... there is actually also talk about writing a panel plugin that creates links to "Places" just like the Gnome second menu does ... so we will kinda be faking a second menu (i don't know if it will happen, but it was discussed)
[11:28] <Jester45> maxamillion: links as in internet site link?
[11:28] <Jester45> or folder links
[11:29] <maxamillion> Jester45: agreed .... I think we will be sticking with the current panel layout for uniformity, because if we can get our defaul installation to resemble Ubuntu almost "to the T" then I think more Ubuntu users will consider it as an alternative (especially because of its light weight aspect)
[11:29] <Jester45> yes i agree with vidd_laptop
[11:29] <maxamillion> Jester45: folder links ... $HOME, Trash, etc. ... just popular things users tend to want easier access to)
[11:30] <maxamillion> well, like i said ... it's only been talked about, i'm not sure any code has even been drafted for it
[11:30] <vidd_laptop> is there (or will there be) a way to drag and drop menu items to the desktop to create shortcuts?
[11:30] <vidd_laptop> and vise versa?
[11:31] <maxamillion> vidd_laptop: that i don't know .. I haven't tested the full functionality of Xfce4.4-stable
[11:31] <Maximilian1st> There won't be before 4.6
[11:31] <Jester45> i dont like the idea of the trash bin menu stuff i dont like the trashbin to begin with
[11:31] <Maximilian1st> You can use the appfinder to do some d&d
[11:32] <maxamillion> interesting tour about Xfce4.4-Stable .... all these features will be in Feisty http://www.xfce.org/about/tour
[11:34] <vidd_laptop> maxamillion, i see in that tour that a2ps is needed for mousepad to print....
[11:34] <maxamillion> that is all that appeared to be on the agenda for the evening, so i guess we could move to an open forum ...
[11:34] <vidd_laptop> we going to have a work around, or will a2ps be included by default?
[11:34] <maxamillion> vidd_laptop: it might be, there has always been issued with mousepad being able to print
[11:35] <maxamillion> vidd_laptop: not sure, i would have to ask Jani about that
[11:36] <vidd_laptop> any other business?
[11:36] <maxamillion> vidd_laptop: nope ... just open forum for any questions, concerns, or comments
[11:37] <vidd_laptop> has a chat program been choosen as default yet?
[11:37] <maxamillion> i believe it is still Gaim
[11:37] <vidd_laptop> gaim is an IM program....
[11:37] <maxamillion> vidd_laptop: it does irc
[11:38] <vidd_laptop> ill see you on -offtopic in a few then to discuss that
[11:38] <vidd_laptop> =]
[11:38] <vidd_laptop> what about an FTP program?
[11:40] <maxamillion> vidd_laptop: i am actually working on getting gFTP in feisty, but i don't know if it will happen
[11:41] <vidd_laptop> what is holding it back?
[11:41] <maxamillion> vidd_laptop: i keep bringing it up, but i don't know if it will make the cut
[11:41] <maxamillion> vidd_laptop: i'm not entirely sure to be honest
[11:42] <vidd_laptop> i think we need to compile a list of "must-have" apps (types-not specific)
[11:42] <vidd_laptop> so we can get some kind of consensus of what kind of apps this distro should have by default
[11:43] <maxamillion> vidd_laptop: not a bad idea .... I will look into starting a spec for "required apps" on the wiki and we can pass it along to Jani once we have it fine tuned
[11:43] <vidd_laptop> one other thing....
[11:44] <vidd_laptop> the volume control panel app should be enabled by default.....
[11:44] <vidd_laptop> i see so many questions about volume buttons not working
[11:44] <vidd_laptop> and if the volume control panel app is enabled, they do work
[11:45] <maxamillion> vidd_laptop: good point, another thing that should be brought up in the -devel mailing lists
[11:49] <maxamillion> well .... its 50 after and business seems to have been concluded so I think i will call this meeting to a close, thanks to all those who attended and participated
[11:58] <ron_> hm
[12:01] <Tonio_> hi all !
[12:01] <Hobbsee> IT'S THE KUBUNTU MEETING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[12:01] <claydoh> hello!
[12:01] <Jucato> hi
[12:01] <Hobbsee> YAY, CLAYDOH!
[12:01] <Jucato> hi claydoh
[12:02] <claydoh> I will be here for the whole meeting I think :)
[12:02] <Hobbsee> claydoh: woot :)
[12:02] <Jucato> lol
[12:02] <Riddell> mischivous bunch tonight
[12:02] <Hobbsee> hey Mithrandir!  nice of you to join us :)
[12:03] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: i run faster than that
[12:03] <Riddell> agenda is at https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Meetings
[12:03] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: I don't know how long I'll be hanging around for.  It's midnight here now.
[12:03] <Tonio_> Lure: I'll upload soundkonverter by the end of the meeting
[12:03] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: ouch
[12:03] <Riddell> do we have any memberships to start with?
[12:03] <Hobbsee> we do. two
[12:04] <Lure> Tonio_: no hurry
[12:04] <Hobbsee> or 3
[12:04] <Jucato> O.o
[12:04] <Tonio_> Riddell: manchicken and Jucato
[12:04] <Tonio_> manchicken: ping ?
[12:04] <manchicken> w00t?
[12:04] <Jucato> who's the 3rd?
[12:04] <Hobbsee> claydoh's not going for membership today?
[12:04] <claydoh> umm....
[12:04] <claydoh> did I apply?
[12:05] <Tonio_> manchicken: can you shortly introduce yourself and your work past present on kubuntu ?
[12:05] <Hobbsee> claydoh: no.  but you were on hte proposed members list
[12:05] <Riddell> and wiki page and laucchpad page
[12:05] <manchicken> Sure.
[12:05] <manchicken> Howdy, my name is Mike "manchicken" Stemle.  I'm 25 a week from tomorrow, and I've been hacking for quite some time.  I've been hacking for kubuntu for only a short while--since December 9th--and in that short period of time I've managed to get quite a bit done.  I've implemented a tabbed interface for kde-systemsettings, and a couple features in adept including an icon display to indicate packages that are officially
[12:05] <manchicken> supported.
[12:05] <Tonio_> Riddell: yes, that was obvious to me, sorry :)
[12:05] <manchicken> Outside of kubuntu, I've also helped the kopete project with porting SMS to Qt4/KDE4, and an enhancement for meta-contacts.  I've spent quite a bit of time answering and asking questions in #kubuntu as well.  I plan to continue participating in the development efforts of kubuntu and KDE.
[12:05] <manchicken> My wiki is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MikeStemleJr
[12:06] <manchicken> Any questions?
[12:06] <Riddell> Chicaco.. met whiprush?
[12:07] <manchicken> The name doesn't ring a bell.  It's possible.  I'm not skilled with that whole "names" thing.
[12:07] <Riddell> manchicken: what brought you to kubuntu?
[12:07] <manchicken> I've met a lot of people.
[12:07] <Hobbsee> didnt whiprush leave ubuntu?  or am i imagining things?
[12:07] <manchicken> I've been a KDE user since (I think it was) 1998.
[12:08] <Riddell> impressive, longer than me :)
[12:08] <manchicken> I used debian back when it was still pretty manual, so I knew debs were rockin.
[12:08] <manchicken> I was a SuSE user, but the political climate turned me from SuSE.
[12:08] <Tonio_> like with a lot of users unfortunatelly...
[12:09] <manchicken> Ubuntu is rather well recognized for free software advocacy, and that's right up my street.
[12:09] <ron_> excuse me, what'S this whole meeting about
[12:09] <Riddell> manchicken: how did you find out about #kubuntu-devel?
[12:09] <allee> did you participate in the former distro you used too, e.g. debian?
[12:09] <Tonio_> ron_: kubuntu development
[12:09] <manchicken> Well, most projects have a -devel.
[12:09] <manchicken> kopete got boring for me because it was one program.
[12:09] <manchicken> I get bored working on such an isolated codebase.
[12:09] <ron_> i see, sorry for the interruption
[12:10] <nixternal> hi hi
[12:10] <manchicken> I'm not the world's greatest hacker, but I do enjoy variety.
[12:10] <nixternal> I was in the wrong channel talking :)
[12:10] <manchicken> heh
[12:10] <Hobbsee> then produce results soon after :)
[12:10] <Lure> manchicken: we need people like you
[12:10] <Tonio_> Riddell: very good point with manchicken is that he came to me asking what he could do for kubuntu
[12:10] <manchicken> So naturally when I saw a neat opportunity to do C++/KDE/Qt hacking, and I just couldn't let that pass.
[12:10] <Riddell> Hobbsee: it's the producing results bit that'
[12:10] <Riddell> that's rare :)
[12:10] <Hobbsee> Riddell: yep!
[12:10] <Tonio_> that happens very often, but the good thing is that he DID it ;)
[12:10] <nixternal> you guys, be careful with manchicken!
[12:11] <manchicken> heh
[12:11] <Riddell> only 68 karma, that will probably go up by tomorrow morning :)
[12:11] <Tonio_> manchicken: do you have ideas that you'd like to implement to adept in the future ? or will you stop with feisty spec implementation ?
[12:11] <manchicken> Well, it's just nice to work with a project that I agree with both technically and for the most part in purpose as well.
[12:11] <nixternal> Riddell: we all got owned by karma bug this week
[12:12] <Hobbsee> Riddell: yeah, they cut the karma. and i was approaching 2 million, iirc.
[12:12] <manchicken> Riddell: It was 762 or something like that yesterday ;)
[12:12] <nixternal> I went from almost 2 million down to 7k
[12:12] <Hobbsee> or more
[12:12] <manchicken> Tonio_: I'm currently working on changelog support, and I'm considering looking into a Qt/KDE4 port soon.
[12:12] <nixternal> I will tell you this, that karma bug makes me feel like I need to work harder :)
[12:12] <manchicken> Tonio_: I like working in adept, but I would like to try out other things that need doing as well.
[12:12] <Tonio_> manchicken: that's very good to hear :) consider working on the GUI please ^^
[12:13] <Tonio_> so many people complain about the non-friendly UI
[12:13] <Riddell> Tonio_: mornfall is working on a new version with the UI spec we did in paris
[12:13] <manchicken> Tonio_: There are a lot of things that could use work.  It's a great program, I love using it.  Which just makes me even more tickled to work on it.
[12:13] <manchicken> Tonio_: No such thing as perfect software.
[12:13] <Tonio_> Riddell: ah ? cool ! I thought mornfall stoped with adept...
[12:13] <Riddell> naw, just slowed
[12:13] <manchicken> Tonio_: Naw, he gave me a branch the other day to look at.
[12:14] <Tonio_> okay great
[12:14] <manchicken> I should share that info.
[12:14] <yuriy> good to know he's still working on it
[12:14] <manchicken> Yeah.
[12:14] <Riddell> manchicken get a +1 from me for enthusiasm and several very useful code contributions
[12:14] <manchicken> I still have him review my changes.
[12:14] <manchicken> heh
[12:14] <allee> +1 , read only good things about him.
[12:14] <Tonio_> same for me, +1
[12:14] <Hobbsee> manchicken: +1, but i wanted to ask a questoin first
[12:14] <manchicken> Wow, and nobody made fun of my name.  That was easy ;)
[12:14] <Hobbsee> trying to remember what it was now
[12:15] <Lure> manchicken: congrats!
[12:15] <allee> manchicken: we are tolerant (sometimes)
[12:15] <manchicken> Hobbsee: I can answer questions iffen ya got 'em ^_^
[12:15] <nixternal> congrats manchicken!
[12:15] <Hobbsee> manchicken: do you find that you lack stuff to do, or that the list of specs is enough to find something interesting to work on?
[12:15] <manchicken> Hobbsee: You've certainly answered plenty of mine.
[12:15] <Hobbsee> :)
[12:15] <manchicken> Well, I think my main limiting factor--like many free software hackers--is time.
[12:15] <Hobbsee> of course, yes
[12:15] <manchicken> Marriage, church, work, hacking.
[12:15] <Riddell> so, congrats manchicken, you're a Kubuntu Member
[12:16] <manchicken> In that order ^_^
[12:16] <manchicken> Sweet.
[12:16] <Jucato> wow, church :)
[12:16] <allee> manchicken: congrats
[12:16] <Hobbsee> manchicken: sounds sane
[12:16] <nixternal> ya Jucato, we do that here in Chicago sometimes :)
[12:16] <manchicken> I would like to work on more of the ideas though in the specs, and I do like having them mapped out for me already.
[12:16] <Tonio_> welcome abouard manchicken


[05:07] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Softpedia:: Canonical Under Fire for Putting Ads in the Ubuntu MOTD @ https://news.softpedia.com/news/canonical-under-fire-for-putting-ads-in-the-ubuntu-motd-530372.shtml (by Bogdan Popa, Microsoft News Editor)
[06:18] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Softpedia:: The Latest Linux Laptop Features Open-Source Firmware, NVIDIA GeForce 2080 Super @ https://news.softpedia.com/news/the-latest-linux-laptop-features-open-source-firmware-nvidia-geforce-2080-super-530375.shtml (by Bogdan Popa, Microsoft News Editor)
[14:31] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Planet:: Ubuntu Blog: Open source holds the key to autonomous vehicles @ https://ubuntu.com//blog/open-source-economics-hold-the-key-to-autonomous-vehicles
[14:31] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Planet:: Ubuntu Blog: Split Personality Snaps @ https://ubuntu.com//blog/split-personality-snaps
[22:18] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Planet:: David Tomaschik: Hacker Culture Reading List @ https://systemoverlord.com/2020/06/26/security-culture-reading-list.html


[12:59] <Mark8> can anyone tell me where I can find the information to install 19.04 over 18.04 without loosing what I have?
 Why do you want to install over a LTS version?
[13:38] <Mark8> no reason really, just want to see what’s new
 Ok. I would recommend: first backup your /home folder.... then if possible set /home as a separate partition... then you are safe to upgrade
[15:24] <MarshallT> if I want to upgrade from studio16.04 to studio 18.04 do I do it through the software updater or some other way? I don’t want it to put regular ubuntu 18.04 on my machine. And yes I'm new to this trying to learn. Thanks!
 yes.... usually there is a "software updates" tool... an there you can tell it to update
[15:27] <MarshallT> ok so just like the updater in regular ubuntu?
 yes
[15:27] <MarshallT> ok Thank you!
[23:52] <paul40> I am installing Ubuntu Studio 18.04 LTS. It won't let me log in as root! What is going on?
[23:52] <paul40> I ma trying to log in as root through the console
[23:54] <Eickmeyer> paul40: Login as root on any Ubuntu is disabled. Login as your user and use sudo.
[23:54] <Eickmeyer> !root | paul40
[23:57] <paul40> The link you refer me to says that the root password is locked by *default*. I think this is to prevent newbies from hurting themselves. I'm OK. Is there a method to unlock the password?
[23:58] <Eickmeyer> paul40: There isn't one. It's completely disabled in all Ubuntu systems.


[11:07] <justJanne[m]> What's the current situation with Wayland on Ubuntu Studio? KDE itself used to say it's experimental, and afaik essential features such as color profiles are still WIP, is there anything else I should be aware of?
[14:23] <OvenWerks> justJanne[m]: I use wayland on only one of my machines and only because I need it for waydroid. I do not know how well it works for 23.04 but on 22.10 I find the scaling is off (everything comes out tiny). I have heard that is not as bad in later versions. On the other hand almost all software is still written on top of the X11 libs.
[14:24] <justJanne[m]> OvenWerks: Well, Electron, Qt and Gtk work fine on Wayland, and pretty much all software uses these frameworks, so that should be fine
[14:24] <justJanne[m]> > <@OvenWerks:libera.chat> justJanne: I use wayland on only one of my machines and only because I need it for waydroid. I do not know how well it works for 23.04 but on 22.10 I find the scaling is off (everything comes out tiny). I have heard that is not as bad in later versions. On the other hand almost all software is still written on top of the X11 libs.
[14:24] <justJanne[m]>  * Well, Electron, Qt and Gtk work fine on Wayland, and all software I use uses these frameworks, so that should be fine
[16:34] <OvenWerks> a lot of plugins use X11 pretty directly. None of the plugins (that are stable) use electron, qt or gtk. I personally avoid electron based sw as much as possible. Ardour, which is gtk-ish based, is based on older versions and may not be wayland native either. That said, wayland does provide an X11 interface.
[16:48] <justJanne[m]> So, I installed it on another drive for testing, it works really well. Loving it already. Time to make the switch on my main system as well.
[17:31] <guitarman> Hi all.
[17:31] <guitarman> Has anyone else had the problem of using google meet or microsoft teams or any conferencing software really - the mic works but the audio in the room doesn't - when i look at speakers in the conferencing software it's set to default, when i try to change it it says jack sink - pulse out, when i cliick test i get no audio
[17:31] <guitarman> i'm on ubuntu studio 22.04 and have a usb audio interface - behringer um2
[17:31] <guitarman> i can record and hear audio in mixbus etc.
[17:31] <guitarman> it's just conferencing software this is an issue on
[17:31] <guitarman> anyone else have this problem?
[17:55] <Eickmeyer> guitarman: Conferencing software will be using pulseaudio as opposed to mixbus which is likely using jack, therefore it will have to be patched differently.
[17:55] <guitarman> Eickmeyer: thanks for chiming in - youtube works for instance
[17:55] <guitarman> Eickmeyer: do you think I need to change something in the studio controls app
[17:56] <Eickmeyer> guitarman: More like you'll need to change something in a patchbay like carla's patchbay.
[17:56] <Eickmeyer> You'll need to set your pulse in/out to your UM2.
[17:56] <guitarman> hmmm
[17:57] <guitarman> lo9oking in carla, i have capture 1 and 2 going to pulse_in left and right
[17:57] <guitarman> i have pulse out going to system playback
[17:57] <Eickmeyer> And the videoconferencing software will also be needed to be set to the pulse-in and pulse-out.
[17:58] <Eickmeyer> System playback would be whatever your master is set to in studio controls.
[17:59] <guitarman> i'm in studio controls now
[18:02] <guitarman> in jack master settings it has the usb device that should be master set
[18:03] <guitarman> main output ports system:playback1
[18:07] <Eickmeyer> Ok, perfect.
[18:08] <Eickmeyer> Then in the video conferencing software, it should be set to pulseaudio source and pulseaudio sinc.
[18:08] <Eickmeyer> *sink.
[18:08] <Eickmeyer> *Jack source and Jack sink
[18:09] <guitarman> yeah so in the conference software I have:  jack source and jack sink
[18:09] <guitarman> pulse in and pulse out
[18:09] <guitarman> yet still no audio
[18:10] <Eickmeyer> And everything is routed correctly in carla?
[18:14] <guitarman> yes
[18:14] <guitarman> syhstem captures 1 and 2 go to pulse in l and r, pulse out l and r go to playback 1 and 2
[18:14] <guitarman> that's why it's a mystery
[18:15] <guitarman> youtube works which uses pulse sink to jack i think
[18:15] <Eickmeyer> open qasmixer and make sure your levels are up.
[18:15] <guitarman> master is 100%
[18:15] <Eickmeyer> What video conferencing software is this that you're testing on?
[18:16] <guitarman> Google Meet in this case
[18:16] <Eickmeyer> Ok, that explains it. You might have to close every browser tab/window and reopen to get it to use it correctly after making any changes. It's finicky.
[18:17] <Eickmeyer> Basically, you can't have a browser window open while starting jack.
[18:17] <guitarman> still no go
[18:17] <guitarman> closed and reopened browser
[18:18] <Eickmeyer> Then you still have a hung browser process.
[18:18] <Eickmeyer> Which browser?
[18:18] <guitarman> google chrome
[18:18] <Eickmeyer> ok, open a terminal, type "pkill -9 chrome".
[18:19] <Eickmeyer> (Chrome is probably set to stay open in the background)
[18:19] <Eickmeyer> Then try it.
[18:23] <guitarman> so here's something odd
[18:24] <guitarman> it works in firefox but not chrome now
[18:24] <guitarman> So I guess that's progress.
[18:24] <guitarman> I wonder why it fails in chrome but works in firefox
[18:24] <Eickmeyer> Not sure.
[18:25] <Eickmeyer> Like I said, Google Meet is very finicky when it comes to audio and detecting stuff. Basically, it won't detect anything new if there's a previous browser process open.
[18:31] <guitarman> Eickmeyer: thanks for your help.  I'll call being able to use firefox for meetings good enough.
[18:31] <guitarman> counter intuitive though, you would think the google stuff would work in chrome vs firefox
[18:32] <Eickmeyer> guitarman: If that works for you, awesome. Glad to hear it. But yeah, Chrome can be a pain sometimes.
[18:50] <tedthetrumpet[m]> Any chance of some more help just now with my Carla problem? I did the backports thing as advised, it still won't launch.
[18:54] <Eickmeyer[m]> tedthetrumpet: can you show me the output of `sudo apt-cache policy carla` ?
[18:54] <tedthetrumpet[m]> hang on
[18:54] <tedthetrumpet[m]> carla:... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/6251cb1191ba8a42a187583cfdf5d61b7274953b>)
[18:55] <Eickmeyer[m]> Hmmmm....
[18:55] <Eickmeyer[m]> !info carla lunar
[18:55] <Eickmeyer[m]> Give me a few hours, I'll give you the latest bugfix release. Sorry, that one might be on me.
[18:56] <tedthetrumpet[m]> Ok, no major hurry right now, I'll probably be in bed by then :) would be good to get it working by the end of this week though
[18:57] <Eickmeyer[m]> Well, if this doesn't work then you might have something else that's pretty broken on your system.
[18:57] <tedthetrumpet[m]> Ok, be good to find out!


[02:54] <terrycojones> does bzrlib.commands.Option let me have a command line option (e.g., --verbose) that results in a bool that's set according to whether --verbose is present on the command line or not?
[10:02] <Kamping_Kaiser> bzr dh-make --v3 appears to fail creating the debian/source/format file. is there a way i can 'resume' it after it bails, or do i hav to do the rest manually?
[10:04] <Kamping_Kaiser> http://paste.debian.net/123072/ is the output
[10:04] <Kamping_Kaiser> (yes, i should tidy up the tarball a bit... but not today)
[10:04] <jelmer> hey Kamping_Kaiser
[10:05] <Kamping_Kaiser> jelmer: hi :)
[10:08] <Kamping_Kaiser> on that same subject, i can pastebin bzr st or log if that helps too
[10:09] <jelmer> Kamping_Kaiser, bzr st might be useful too
[10:09] <jelmer> it seems like it failed to create debian/source/format
[10:12] <Kamping_Kaiser> jelmer: http://paste.debian.net/123073/
[10:15] <Kamping_Kaiser> http://paste.debian.net/123074/ plugins -v if it helps too
[10:18] <jelmer> Kamping_Kaiser, thanks
[10:21] <Kamping_Kaiser> np
[11:24] <Kamping_Kaiser> wonder if i should put in a bug :/
[11:48] <InFerNo_> I have setup bzr on my linux laptop with the explorer and created "feature branches"
[11:48] <InFerNo_> i have installed the explorer on my windows desktop, so the question is how I can connect to the repo
[11:49] <InFerNo_> D:
[12:01] <mgz> InFerNo_: how do you normally connect to your linux laptop from your windows desktop?
[12:01] <mgz> if the laptop runs an ssh server, you can branch over ssh
[12:01] <InFerNo_> IP
[12:02] <InFerNo_> well
[12:02] <mgz> as a fallback, you can always push the branch to somewhere on the net (eg lp:~yourusername/+junk/projectname), then pull from there
[12:02] <InFerNo_> how i usually connect is not really a good question, I think I can say I never really connect to the laptop, unless via samba and synergy :p
[12:04] <mgz> if the laptop can see the windows desktop's filesystem over samba, you should be able to just branch from the laptop to make a copy on the desktop
[12:06] <InFerNo_> so just copy the files over?
[12:06] <InFerNo_> I think I'm missing something
[12:07] <mgz> you can do that, but using `bzr branch /src/... /dest/...` is better
[12:07] <InFerNo_> k, i'll look into that in an hour, i've got to mow my lawn :>
[12:08] <mgz> in this weather?
[12:08] <InFerNo_> it's "ok" here
[12:08] <InFerNo_> yeah it's windy that's all
[12:09] <InFerNo_> so i'm going to do it quickly before it does rain
[12:09] <mgz> :)
[12:10] <InFerNo_> meanwhile I found this: http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/bzr-0.11/server.htm
[12:11] <InFerNo_> will read that through when I return
[12:11] <InFerNo_> I guess that's what I require?
[12:11] <InFerNo_> checkin/out remotely
[12:11] <InFerNo_> bbl
[12:22] <brainwave92> If i ask for a source at launchpad with bzr branch, it asks me passphrase to my private key . Is that normal?
[12:22] <brainwave92> Even for bzr log it asks me my private key
[12:27] <brainwave92> brainwave92> If i ask for a source at launchpad with bzr branch, it asks me passphrase to my private key . Is that normal?
 Even for bzr log it asks me my private key
[12:29] <InFerNo_> pfrt started raining before i could get the lawnmower out
[12:29] <InFerNo_> D:
[12:30] <brainwave92> InFerNo_, can you answer my question?
[12:31] <InFerNo_> I joined this channel 30 minutes before you to ask how I can remotely pull files
[12:31] <InFerNo_> so no.
[12:35] <brainwave92> i didnt get you...all i'm saying is, is launchpad supposed to ask my password when i use bzr branch?
[12:35] <brainwave92> cause the tutorials dont mention that step
[12:54] <InFerNo_> how do I upload my source to launchpad, I've created the project there
[12:55] <InFerNo_> from Windows that is
[12:55] <InFerNo_> not Linux
[12:57] <brainwave92> dude no ones listening here....i dunno why
[12:57] <jelmer> hi InFerNo_, brainwave92
[12:58] <InFerNo_> I've got time and they have lives?
[12:58] <InFerNo_> ll
[12:58] <mgz> because of lunch!
[12:58] <InFerNo_> lol
[12:58] <InFerNo_> don't sweat
[12:58] <jelmer> InFerNo_, see http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/latest/en/tutorials/using_bazaar_with_launchpad.html
[12:58] <mgz> brainwave92: if you have given bzr your lp login, it uses ssh to connect, hence asking for the key
[12:58]  * jelmer waves to mgz
[12:58] <mgz> generally people run an ssh agent to avoid retyping the password all the time
[12:58] <brainwave92> mgz, so should i have it that way....?
[12:59] <brainwave92> i prefer typing the password....i feel secure
[12:59] <InFerNo_> I keep seeing this jelmer "login to launchpad like this:"
[12:59] <InFerNo_> then there's a command to enter
[12:59] <InFerNo_> windows 7 is what I'm using
[12:59] <mgz> brainwave92: session locking is a better way of feeling secure
[12:59] <brainwave92> mgz, i am new to all this...can  you explain a bit?
[12:59] <InFerNo_> also, Bazaar Explorer
[12:59] <mgz> ^hey jelmer :)
[13:00] <mgz> InFerNo_: you don't strictly need to run a bzr server if you have one of a large number of other ways of communicating over lan between the two machines
[13:00] <mgz> which is why I was asking you about that earlier
[13:00] <jelmer> InFerNo_: Have you tried running that command (I don't have much experience with bzr explorer)?
[13:00] <mgz> jelmer is a samba guru so may have opinions
[13:01] <InFerNo_> in the command prompt?
[13:01] <InFerNo_> will check
[13:01] <InFerNo_> mgz, I'm trying to setup a way to work with some people all around the world (literally)
[13:01] <mgz> brainwave92: even if you retype your password all the time, someone walking up to your machine can still access your home dir, which is also likely to contain things you care about
[13:02] <brainwave92> mgz, home directory has my private keys stored in plaintext?
[13:02] <mgz> brainwave92: so you may as well run an ssh agent, but get in the habit of always locking your session if you wander away
[13:03] <mgz> no, but it has various application caches and things like your browser passwords in plain text, and other private wotsits generally
[13:03] <brainwave92> mgz, so session locking is basically locking the comp? with screen lock?
[13:04] <mgz> InFerNo_: one of the easier ways of doing that is to host the branch on launchpad (or some other internet-accessible machine)
[13:04] <mgz> ^yeah
[13:04] <InFerNo_> lol?
[13:04] <InFerNo_> hence my other questions ;)
[13:04] <InFerNo_> I'm getting there
[13:04] <mgz> InFerNo_: am I failing to keep up here? :)
[13:04] <InFerNo_> yes
[13:05] <InFerNo_> :D
[13:05] <InFerNo_> I have already registered with launchpad and created the project, I was just trying to get the files up there with Bazaar Explorer
[13:05] <InFerNo_> i'm trying the commands
[13:07] <mgz> play around and yell again if you get stuck then
[13:07] <InFerNo_> C:\Windows>bzr launchpad-login infy.inferno. bzr wordt niet herkend als een interne of externe opdracht, programma of batchbestand.
[13:07] <InFerNo_> no go jelmer
[13:08] <jelmer> InFerNo_: ah, you're Dutch :)
[13:08] <jelmer> InFerNo_: I'm not really familiar enough with the windows installation to know where it installs
[13:09] <dOxxx> usually C:\Program Files\Bazaar
[13:09] <mgz> in bzr explorer, under Bazaar/All Commands... you can type in a command and run in there
[13:10] <mgz> there doesn't seem to be an easier way from browsing around the config stuff confusingly...
[13:10] <brainwave92> dOxxx, the windows way...whole software more or less at one place. Just search na!
[13:10] <InFerNo_> got it
[13:11] <dOxxx> Although, I would have expected bzr to have been added to the PATH
[13:11] <InFerNo_> yes
[13:11] <InFerNo_> it asked and i allowed it
[13:12] <dOxxx> so, why (if my reading of dutch is accurate) is it saying it can't find bzr when you run it at the cmmandline?
[13:12] <dOxxx> was the command prompt you used already open before you installed bzr?
[13:13] <brainwave92> dOxxx, i doubt if its bzr in windows is it?
[13:13] <brainwave92> it might be some other name
[13:13] <dOxxx> the commandline tool in the windows install is bzr
[13:13] <dOxxx> I run Windows 7
[13:14] <mgz> thats a good guess, dOxxx must be an expert in confusing windows situations
[13:14] <mgz> anyway, InFerNo_, have you got something pushed to launchpad yet?
[13:14] <dOxxx> command prompt windows don't see environment variable changes made by other apps after the prompt was opened
[13:15] <dOxxx> so if you install something that changes the environment, you have to close and re-open all your command prompt windows if you want them to see that change
[13:15] <dOxxx> it's pretty much the same as in Linux
[13:15] <InFerNo_> no mgz  :p
[13:16] <dOxxx> where are you stuck InFerNo_?
[13:16] <InFerNo_> I have a project locally
[13:16] <InFerNo_> I want it on launchpad so we can work on it together
[13:16] <InFerNo_> i've created the project there
[13:16] <InFerNo_> that's where i'm stuck
[13:16] <InFerNo_> to get the files on launchpad
[13:16] <mgz> okay, so inside the bzr explorer branch view
[13:16] <InFerNo_> and bzr isn't working from the command line apparantly
[13:17] <InFerNo_> yes
[13:17] <mgz> one of the buttons at the top is "push", it's a green arrown pointing upwards
[13:17] <InFerNo_> yes i pushed it
[13:17] <InFerNo_> it asks for the locaion
[13:17] <InFerNo_> location*
[13:18] <mgz> okay, so that you can find from the launchpad webpage for your project
[13:18] <InFerNo_> been looking around
[13:18] <dOxxx> what's your project name?
[13:18] <mgz> it's generally something like lp:projectname
[13:18] <InFerNo_> dday
[13:19] <dOxxx> so push to lp:dday
[13:20] <InFerNo_> error
[13:20] <InFerNo_> sec
[13:20] <InFerNo_> synergy isn't moving the clipboard
[13:22] <InFerNo_> bzr: ERROR: Invalid url supplied to transport: "bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/+branch/dday": no supported schemes
[13:22] <mgz> hm, I've not actually started a project from scratch with launchpad, you may just need to do something on the website. <https://code.launchpad.net/dday> currently has a pointer to a help page.
[13:22] <mgz> ah, ugh
[13:22] <dOxxx> hmm
[13:22] <dOxxx> what version of bzr do you have installed?
[13:23] <InFerNo_> 2.3.3
[13:23] <mgz> that might be an ssh setup thing.
[13:23] <InFerNo_> in windows?
[13:24] <mgz> you don't have a key registered with launchpad currently
[13:24] <InFerNo_> i see
[13:24] <mgz> there's a help page for this...
[13:24] <mgz> horrible error message though.
[13:25] <mgz> https://help.launchpad.net/Code/QuickStart
[13:25] <mgz> refer to that as you go
[13:25] <mgz> where's the ssh guide...
[13:26] <mgz> https://help.launchpad.net/YourAccount/CreatingAnSSHKeyPair
[13:27] <mgz> you can copy the key from your linux laptop (I'm betting you already have one there) to your windows machine if you like.
[13:32] <InFerNo_> invalid public key
[13:32] <InFerNo_> jezus christ lol
[13:32] <InFerNo_> I'll never get the main developer persuaded D:
[13:33] <mgz> the help page links a question that may help you there.
[13:34] <mgz> ssh setup is a one time cost that pretty much every developer needs to do, telnetting across the public net is just a bad idea
[13:45] <InFerNo_> bzr: ERROR: Connection error: Unable to authenticate to SSH host as<EMAIL_ADDRESS>supported auth types: ['publickey']
[13:46] <mgz> okay, that's progress
[13:46] <InFerNo_> :)
[13:46] <InFerNo_> and i've gotten the command prompt to work if i do it straigt from the program files folder
[13:49] <mgz> so (this is the windows box right?), you probably either want to run pageant and load the key, or put the passphrase you used for the private key in a conf file (not generally sensible, but doesn't hurt for testing)
[13:50] <InFerNo_> ok
[13:50] <mgz> bzr explorer Settings/Credentials opens the right file for you, and add password=...
[13:51] <mgz> ...is that right? I'm having doubts.
[13:52] <InFerNo_> Connected (version 2.0, client Twisted)
[13:52] <InFerNo_> bzr: ERROR: [Error 5] Toegang geweigerd: 'c:\\users\\win7\\appdata\\local\\temp\\tmplxzxnt.pag'
[13:52] <mgz> really the launchpad help should cover this, I'm used to my own way of doing all this
[13:52] <InFerNo_> Toegang geweigerd = access denied
[13:52] <InFerNo_> i wasn't here if the launchpad help would've been clear
[13:53] <mgz> the launchpad help mostly assumes you use ssh all the time anyway I think
[13:54] <mgz> it's not much good having a page on generating keys if it doesn't also tell you how to use them, or at least point you at the putty help
[13:54] <mgz> I guess step 6 is sort of it...
[13:54] <InFerNo_> idd
[13:54] <mgz> but somehow you've got a file in temp that bazaar thinks it needs to access
[13:55] <InFerNo_> alright, it's pretty clear this is going nowhere, i've spent all afternoon
[13:55] <InFerNo_> any alternatives
[13:55] <InFerNo_> for easy collab?
[13:55] <InFerNo_> :p
[13:56] <mgz> basically you and whoever else just need a common place to put things.
[13:56] <InFerNo_> and check if the file got changed
[13:56] <mgz> somewhere you can ftp to and both have the password would be fine
[13:57] <InFerNo_> that's a hassle for things like this
[13:57] <InFerNo_> dday is a quake 2 mod
[14:00] <mgz> if you right click on the pageant icon in your taskbar and to view keys, do you see the key you gave launchpad?
[14:02] <mgz> I'm sure there must hae just been a slip up when you were following that ssh guide.
[14:02] <mgz> once you get over that hump, the rest is easy.
[14:03] <mgz> also, revert that config change I mentioned earlier if you did it.
[14:06] <InFerNo_> yes i added it to pageant mgz
[14:06] <InFerNo_> i'll revert it :)
[14:06] <InFerNo_> rebooting
[14:06] <mgz> okay.
[14:10] <InFerNo_> no go
[14:10] <InFerNo_> the files in the temp folder are created by pageant
[14:10] <InFerNo_> hence the .pag extension
[14:12] <InFerNo_> pagent off, ssh error, pageant on, can't read .pag file
[14:14] <mgz> can you do from the command line `plink<EMAIL_ADDRESS>and tell me what it prints?
[14:14] <mgz> plink can be found in the PuTTY dir whereever you installed it
[14:15] <mgz> so, eg, `cd "Program Files\PuTTY"` then run that command
[14:19] <InFerNo_> just a second, I was starting to give up on Windows so I'm trying it in linux and I've gotten further
[14:19] <InFerNo_> 1 sec
[14:19] <mgz> it is easier on nix.
[14:19] <InFerNo_> bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: "bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/%2Bbranch/dday/".
[14:20] <mgz> thaty's good.
[14:20] <mgz> what command did you run to get that?
[14:20] <InFerNo_> i did that in bazaar explorer :>
[14:20] <mgz> with push?
[14:20] <InFerNo_> no
[14:20] <InFerNo_> with "Branch"
[14:21] <InFerNo_> good point
[14:21] <mgz> so, open your local branch, then push to lp:dday
[14:22] <InFerNo_> 1 more thing
[14:22] <InFerNo_> to start a new repository
[14:22] <InFerNo_> what do I pick best
[14:23] <mgz> you mean from explorer's "workspace model" options?
[14:23] <InFerNo_> Colocated branches, Feature branches, plain branch or shared repository
[14:23] <InFerNo_> I'm guess features..?
[14:23] <mgz> I think feature branches are least confusing
[14:24] <mgz> the idea there, is when you want to work on a new idea, you create a new branch inside your shared repository, commit as you go, and only when you're done merge it into the trunk branch and push it up to launchpad
[14:26] <InFerNo_> alright no errors
[14:26] <InFerNo_> i think it's pushed
[14:26] <InFerNo_> :D
[14:27] <InFerNo_> yeah that's exactly what's needen mgz
[14:27] <InFerNo_> if i'm working on a jetpack, and he's working on a weapon we don't want to overwrite each other's changes
[14:27] <mgz> right.
[14:29] <mgz> and you can also be working on two things yourself locally, and not have either depend on finishing the other one first
[14:34] <InFerNo_> 1 more quick question
[14:34] <InFerNo_> how do I give the current "version" a revision number?
[14:36] <mgz> you can generally just use the number bazaar counts up for you, but to do a release or something you can tag a numbered revision with a name
[14:37] <InFerNo_> well, the current version number is at 5052
[14:37] <InFerNo_> 5.052
[14:39] <mgz> well, how you name your versions yourself is mostly a matter of taste, but you can add a tag every time you bump that number
[14:39] <mgz> I wouldn't go overboard though, the revision numbers are often all you'll need, and they (mostly) just count up from 1
[14:40] <InFerNo_> heh weird, on launchpad it says "this branch is empty"
[14:41] <mgz> did you add files and commit in your local branch before pushing?
[14:41] <mgz> bzr explorer gives you a pretty good overview of the state of your branch
[14:42] <InFerNo_> yes they're there
[14:42] <InFerNo_> all the status' say unrevisioned
[14:43] <InFerNo_> that's why i asked
[14:44] <InFerNo_> got it
[14:44] <InFerNo_> something weird
[14:45] <InFerNo_> there's a dialog where are the files are selected
[14:45] <InFerNo_> deselected them all, pressed ok then reselected them all and pressed ok again, now it works
[14:45] <InFerNo_> site still says no files are up lol
[14:46] <dOxxx> when you initialized the branch in your working direcoty, did you "Add" the files and then "Commit" them?
[14:47] <dOxxx> once you have done that, then Push to lp again
[14:47] <InFerNo_> yes
[14:48] <InFerNo_> "Working tree is up to date at revision 1."
[14:48] <InFerNo_> code.launchpad.net/dday says the tree is empty
[14:48] <dOxxx> I see the files
[14:48] <dOxxx> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~infy-inferno/dday/trunk/files
[14:48] <InFerNo_> no i just did it again while i replied here :)
[14:49] <dOxxx> the lp website may take a minute or two to update after you push stuff
[14:49] <InFerNo_> good to know
[14:49] <InFerNo_> alright
[14:49] <InFerNo_> thanks for all the help so far, I'm going to start fresh on the windows part, so I'll stick around
[14:56] <InFerNo_> works like a charm on XP
[14:56] <InFerNo_> heh
[14:56] <InFerNo_> trying again on 7
[15:01] <InFerNo_> no go on 7
[15:01] <InFerNo_> :/
[15:03] <dOxxx> what's the problem on 7?
[15:04] <InFerNo_> bzr: ERROR: [Error 5] Toegang geweigerd: 'c:\\users\\win7\\appdata\\local\\temp\\tmplxzxnt.pag'
[15:04] <mgz> sounds like pageant may be running as a different user to bzr or something to me.
[15:04] <InFerNo_> both started like normal
[15:04] <mgz> try that plink command I suggested earlier
[15:04] <InFerNo_> clicking the icon :')
[15:07] <InFerNo_> http://pastebin.com/VGsE58Sm mgz
[15:07] <mgz> was that with pageant running and the key added?
[15:08] <InFerNo_> yes
[15:08] <dOxxx> so putty's tools themselves aren't seeing the pageant and its loaded keys
[15:09] <InFerNo_> apparantly
[15:10] <dOxxx> may I suggst shutting down pageant and checking in task manager that there is no other pageant process?
[15:10] <InFerNo_> no other pageant process is running
[15:10] <InFerNo_> showing all users
[15:10] <dOxxx> then restart pageant, add they key and try the plink test again
[15:12] <InFerNo_> C:\Users\win7\Downloads>plink<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[15:12] <InFerNo_> Using username "infy-inferno".
[15:12] <InFerNo_> No shells on this server.
[15:13] <dOxxx> aha
[15:13] <dOxxx> ok, try bzr now
[15:15] <InFerNo_> bzr: ERROR: [Error 5] Toegang geweigerd: 'c:\\users\\win7\\appdata\\local\\temp\\tmpjadhy0.pag'
[15:16] <dOxxx> ...
[15:16] <mgz> mystery
[15:16] <InFerNo_> :sadpanda:
[15:16] <mgz> but at least doing BZR_SSH=/path/to/plink should now work
[15:17] <dOxxx> InFerNo_: you're using bzr explorer, right?
[15:17] <InFerNo_> yes
[15:17] <dOxxx> ok, set a system env variable called BZR_SSH to the path to the plink executable
[15:17] <dOxxx> and then restart bzr explorer
[15:18] <InFerNo_> created
[15:19] <InFerNo_> try to branch again?
[15:19] <InFerNo_> bzr: ERROR: Unrecognised value for BZR_SSH environment variable: BZR_SSH=C:\Users\win7\Downloads\plink.exe
[15:20] <dOxxx> hmmm
[15:21] <dOxxx> bleh. try setting it to just "plink" without the quotes
[15:21] <dOxxx> and make sure plink is in the system PATH
[15:22] <mgz> that... shouldn't matter
[15:22] <mgz> is the path right? C:\Users\win7\Downloads\plink.exe doesn't seem likely
[15:23] <mgz> you can test by typing %BZR_SSH% in a new command prompt, should give you the plink help
[15:24] <InFerNo_> not recognized
[15:24] <InFerNo_> the path is correct because I copied it
[15:25] <mgz> I'd double check.
[15:25] <InFerNo_> just did
[15:25] <InFerNo_> same
[15:25] <mgz> I'd expect it to be in "Programs" not "Downloads"
[15:25] <InFerNo_> can it be installed?
[15:25] <dOxxx> well, putty is just a zip
[15:25] <dOxxx> not an installer
[15:25] <InFerNo_> idd
[15:25] <dOxxx> so you can put it wherever
[15:26] <InFerNo_> and i've put it in downloads
[15:26] <mgz> ...I remember having an installer.
[15:26] <mgz> you might need to set a magic bit if you downloaded the exe straight and are trying to run it
[15:26] <InFerNo_> i found an installer and am running it
[15:28] <InFerNo_> variable BZR_SSH
[15:29] <InFerNo_> value BZR_SSH=C:\Program Files (x86)\PuTTY\plink.exe
[15:29] <InFerNo_> that's what it is now
[15:29] <mgz> that should be fine.
[15:30] <InFerNo_> C:\Users\win7\Downloads>%BZR_SSH%
[15:30] <InFerNo_> %BZR_SSH% wordt niet herkend als een interne
[15:30] <InFerNo_> of externe opdracht, programma of batchbestand.
[15:30] <InFerNo_> aka not recognized
[15:30] <dOxxx> don't put BZR_SSH= at the beginning of the value
[15:30] <mgz> ah, whoops.
[15:30] <InFerNo_> changd
[15:30] <mgz> also, "%BZR_SSH%" to test.
[15:30] <InFerNo_> still can't do %BZR_SSH%
[15:30] <mgz> but bzr doesn't need it quoted.
[15:31] <InFerNo_> uknown command
[15:31] <dOxxx> remember to reopen your command prompt after you've changed the env variable
[15:32] <InFerNo_> it's tripping over the space
[15:33] <InFerNo_> got it
[15:33] <InFerNo_> works
[15:33] <mgz> you need those quotes.
[15:33] <mgz> only for the test.
[15:33] <mgz> now try bzr.
[15:35] <InFerNo_> there's light at the end of the tunnel
[15:36] <InFerNo_> it works
[15:36] <InFerNo_> \o/
[15:37] <dOxxx> yay!
[15:38] <InFerNo_> heavy stuff
[15:38] <InFerNo_> work instantly on XP
[15:38] <InFerNo_> worked*
[15:39] <mgz> yeah, I think windows 7 security model was causing you the problems there
[15:39] <mgz> it sort of quarenteens binaries downloaded from the net
[15:40] <InFerNo_> yeah probably
[15:40] <InFerNo_> my colleague said win7 was going to give us headaches
[15:40] <InFerNo_> I work at an IT department :/
[19:33]  * jelmer waves
[20:55] <saedelaere> hi
[20:56] <lifeless> hi
[20:56] <InFerNo_> hi
[20:57] <saedelaere> I currently did resetup my local bzr repo where I develop a project hosted on sourceforge. today I wanted to commit to the trunk branch and now I get some strange error messages. http://pastebin.com/iBi0tmBh
[20:57] <saedelaere> what is the problem there?
[20:58] <saedelaere> I was able to commit locally but not able to push the new revisions to the server.
[20:58] <saedelaere> normally I was asked for a password but now I get this error message.
[21:00] <lifeless> well the bzr:// protocol doesn't have built in authentication
[21:00] <lifeless> so probably you were using bzr+ssh before
[21:07] <saedelaere> lifeless, thank you for opening my eyes :) your hint was the key...
[21:09] <lifeless> de nada
[21:25]  * saedelaere zzz
[21:36] <mtaylor> lifeless: hey!
[21:36] <lifeless> hiya
[21:36] <LeoNerd> I've finally got around to switching from sftp to bzr+ssh
[21:36] <mtaylor> lifeless: so ... one of the features I requested for a while is now in the tree and it's biting me in the ass :)
[21:36] <LeoNerd> Previously my server was a celeron333, that was sufficiently slow to fork/exec/compile python that it was quicker to run the sftp server in the sshd itself.
[21:38] <mtaylor> lifeless: oh - wait - I may have discovered a sequence around it ...
[21:38] <lifeless> LeoNerd: yeah, if your server is low latency high bw sftp can be quite nice
[21:39] <LeoNerd> When I'm at home, the two are fairly similar. But I'm out on the wrong end of a GPRS connection enough times to justify bzr+ssh now
[21:40] <mtaylor> lifeless: ah - nope. it's still biting me.
[21:40] <lifeless> mtaylor: some more detail may help :P
[21:40] <mtaylor> lifeless: so - if I set bzr whoami and then do a branch from launchpad
[21:40] <mtaylor> lifeless: it "helpfully" sets launchpad-login for me (which normally I want)
[21:41] <mtaylor> except, in this case, it's happening on a jenkins slave, so I don't actually have a key ... HRM - *facepalm* - what if I set a whoami that doesn't match a launchpad user ...
[21:41] <lifeless> as far as I know those are unrelated
[21:41] <mtaylor> bzr branch lp:burrow /home/jenkins/workspace/burrow-tarball
[21:41] <mtaylor> Setting ssh/sftp usernames for launchpad.net.
[21:43] <mtaylor> lifeless: nope. it's even simpler - I was injecting too many lines in to a file
[21:43] <mtaylor> all my fault
[21:43] <lifeless> win
[22:50] <sbl> Hi
[22:50] <sbl> Could you help me with bazaar commit problems?
[22:53] <sbl> When I try commit changes from my notebook I receive this error:
[22:53] <sbl> bzr: ERROR: Cannot lock LockDir(ftp://username@host/remote/path/to/repo/.bzr/branch/lock): File exists: '/remote/path/to/repo/.bzr/branch/lock/vez6vu0c2n.tmp': 550 /remote/path/to/repo/.bzr/branch/lock/vez6vu0c2n.tmp: Permission denied
[22:54] <sbl> Any ideas?
[22:54] <sbl> In this localization file: vez6vu0c2n.tmp doesn't exist.
[22:54] <sbl> I use TortoiseBazaar from Windows.