[00:12] <clivejo> DarinMiller: if you look at the status page kconfigwidgets is green
[00:12] <clivejo> https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa/+archive/ubuntu/staging-frameworks/+packages?field.name_filter=kconfigwidgets&field.status_filter=published&field.series_filter=xenial
[00:13] <clivejo> yet on LP there is a green cog meaning the package is pending publication
[00:14] <clivejo> until the publisher actually runs, the packages that needs it to build have to wait
[00:15] <clivejo> it only took 7mins to build, but can take the publisher 20-30mins to actually make the debs available
[00:15] <clivejo> no actually it took 3mins 46.9 seconds
[00:16] <clivejo> and finished 7 mins ago
[00:17] <DarinMiller> OK, I follow.
[00:17] <clivejo> it can be rather frustrating
[00:19] <DarinMiller> wow, lots green already on the xenial frameworks status.... and the red 5.21 stuff is gone.
[00:21] <clivejo> DarinMiller: have you still got a Xenial install?
[00:21] <DarinMiller> clivejo: Who initiated the xenial build process?
[00:21] <DarinMiller> yes
[00:21] <DarinMiller> I my current box is XX.
[00:21] <clivejo> I did
[00:22] <clivejo> we packaged it for YY and have been testing it
[00:22] <DarinMiller> Yes. my YY boxes are running great (no packaging related issues that I have discovered).
[00:23] <clivejo> theres a bug with networkmanager Im a bit worried about
[00:24] <DarinMiller> Do you need me to test something?
[00:24] <DarinMiller> I can test or build whatever (but if I need to build, I will require instruction...)
[00:25] <clivejo> DarinMiller: Im not sure, it seems to be using the proposed version of nm
[00:25] <clivejo> Get:82 http://ftpmaster.internal/ubuntu xenial-proposed/main amd64 libnm0 amd64 1.2.0-0ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS> [353 kB]
[00:25] <DarinMiller> Yes, the proposed version took out my nm.  I had to use ovidiuflorin solution to recover it.
[00:26] <clivejo> I dont know how to handle it, need yofel's help
[00:26] <clivejo> Xenial is an LTS so that needs to be fixed first
[00:27] <DarinMiller> I don't understand your Get:82 line. Look like a hyperlink with spaces in it.
[00:28] <clivejo> oh its from the buildlog
[00:28] <clivejo> on the status page
[00:28] <clivejo> http://qa.kubuntu.co.uk/ppa-status/frameworks/build_status_5.22.0_xenial.html
[00:29] <clivejo> next to networkmanager-qt there are two links to logfile
[00:29] <clivejo> one is the i386 and the other is amd64
[00:29] <clivejo> thats a link to the buildlog
[00:30] <clivejo> so we can see what packages got installed on the clean environment
[00:30] <DarinMiller> that much I understand, it's when I click on those links, I get lost in a hurry. :)
[00:31] <clivejo> takes a while to understand how its fits together
[00:31] <clivejo> wow kconfigwidgets is taking ages to publish
[00:31] <mamarley> clivejo: http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v4.6-yakkety/ is out now, if you want to get off the -rc version. :)
[00:31] <clivejo> it finished 23 mins ago
[00:32] <clivejo> mamarley: will it go to the archive?
[00:32] <mamarley> clivejo: At some point it will become an official release.  I don't know the timeline though.
[00:33] <clivejo> Im happy enough on this rc
 yofel the http://qa.kubuntu.co.uk/ page has some links that we no longer need I think. Can we make some cleanup there?
[00:34]  * clivejo sees kconfigwidgets is now published so pokes the other builds
 Get some sleep :)
[00:35] <clivejo> LOL yeah, I forgot about the time!
[00:35] <clivejo> 1:35am!
 2:36 :)
[00:36] <DarinMiller> Wow clivejo!
[00:36] <clivejo> your in the future!
 :)
[00:37] <clivejo> right, Im off to bed, night all
 nn
[00:38] <DarinMiller> night!
[04:21] <mhall119> ahoneybun: sgclark valorie: I spoke to Andrew at Digital Ocean, he said to email<EMAIL_ADDRESS>with a request for cloud instances and he can probably help you out
[04:25] <valorie> oh very nice, mhall119! I'll write to the kub-devel ML and get an estimate of what we need/want
[04:25] <valorie> now, before I forget
[04:32] <valorie> done
 +1
[06:15] <vip> hi ho
[06:57] <valorie> I guess I lost spectacle somewhere along the way
[06:57] <valorie> when I tried to install,
[06:57] <valorie> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[06:58] <valorie>  kde-spectacle : Depends: libkf5screen6 (>= 5.1.1) but it is not going to be installed
[06:58] <valorie> E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.
[06:58] <valorie> known problem, or should I file a bug?
[06:59] <valorie> or would it be fixed if I re-enabled staging-plasma and upgraded again? I'm on Plasma 5.6.3 still
[07:03] <acheron88> spectacle was uninstallable here as well yesterday. that was on yakkety with the staging ppa all updated to 5.6.4
[07:03] <valorie> hmmm
[07:03] <valorie> yes, should have mentioned that this was YY
[07:03] <valorie> so updating won't help
[07:04] <valorie> did you report it, acheron88?
[07:04] <soee> i think clivejo mentioned that probem
[07:04] <acheron88> nope.
[07:04] <valorie> or file a bug?
[07:04] <valorie> ok
[07:04] <acheron88> figured something just needs a rebuild
[07:05] <valorie> I see that it is failing to build
[07:05] <acheron88> and the ppa is for plasma, which works
[07:05] <valorie> right, and it ain't plasma
[07:05] <valorie> I forgot
[07:06] <acheron88> ironically ksnapshot installed fine
[07:07] <valorie> sure, it's old
[07:07] <valorie> no changes
[07:08] <soee> sgclark: mentioned it
[07:08] <soee> [00:43] <sgclark> uh kde-spectacle want libkscreen
[07:10] <acheron88>  libkf5screen7 : Breaks: libkf5screen6 but 4:5.5.5-0ubuntu1 is to be installed
[07:11] <valorie> yes, I searched up
[07:11] <valorie> thanks for reminding me
[07:11] <valorie> I've a lot on my mind lately
[07:14] <renee77> morning :)
[07:19] <soee> hiho renee77
[07:22] <renee77> Hey
[07:23] <vip> to upgrade xenial kde to staging, I need only staging-plasma, or staging-plasma, frameworks, apps aded to  sources.d?
[07:23] <soee> vip: only staging-plasma
[07:23] <vip> soee: thanks
[07:23] <soee> it contains both Plasma and Frameworks
[07:24] <renee77> I was looking at testing on wiki, is it of value to write to mailing list what is missing? like konq not installed on core system or only bug now?
[07:26] <soee> i think might be worth both, first file a bug than link it on ml
[07:26] <renee77> ok :)
[07:27] <valorie> I'm curious why Konq should be installed on the core system?
[07:28] <renee77> There was one bug, during install when chosing keyboard layout. Install crashed, couldnt attache linked devices.
[07:29] <renee77> Lol it says so in the checklist valorie I assumed (not a got strategy) it had to do with being major application of kde. (webbrowsing, encryption etc).
[07:30] <vip> soee: got another question, is your login wait time bug gone?
[07:30] <soee> vip: i think yes
[07:30] <valorie> I see, renee77
[07:30] <vip> soee: lucky you
[07:31] <valorie> that's a judgement call, since Konq is no longer being developed
[07:31] <valorie> nor is Rekonq
[07:32] <soee> oh i thought renee77 was talkign about drkonqi :)
[07:35] <renee77> I have to learn to bookmark had to work unexpected lost that wiki page
[07:38] <valorie> oh my, we couldn't do without Dr. K
[07:38] <valorie> renee77: check your browser history
[07:43] <renee77> it was from testing Kubuntu current browser history gone Had to work unexpectedly last night.
[07:43] <renee77> srry feeling realy stupid now
[07:47] <renee77> ah it is in the testing introduction for kubuntu
[07:49] <renee77> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Testing/Kubuntu/Introduction
[07:53] <valorie> renee77: we all forget things
[07:53] <renee77> thanks :)
[07:54] <valorie> wow, that page could probably do with some refreshing
[07:54] <valorie> gosh
[07:54] <renee77> Lol that was the intention of asking if it was still used :)
[07:55] <valorie> well, it's still sound, yes
[07:55] <valorie> but we should copy it into the wiki we're actually using now, and put in more up-to-date tests
[07:56] <renee77> I was looking for a routine to assist and register
[07:56] <valorie> it def. should work though
[07:56] <renee77> ok thank you :)
[07:56] <valorie> renee77: the best way to do, is just what you are doing
[07:56] <valorie> follow your interest, and when you think you can help with something, do it
[07:56] <valorie> ask questions if you need to along the way
[07:57] <renee77> ok I will
[07:57] <valorie> you will find what YOU can do,, that nobody else does so well
[07:57] <valorie> I think most of us started where you are, with just a willing heart
[07:59] <renee77> :) Thanks you, these words are very encouraging
[08:00] <valorie> I know I did, and I still don't do much more than edit stuff, write emails, and help users
[08:00] <valorie> but they let me keep hanging around anyway, LOL
[08:01] <renee77> :D
[08:02]  * valorie needs to get some sleep
[08:02] <valorie> have a good day, y'all
[08:02] <renee77> sleep well :)
[08:47] <sheytan> heya!
[08:47] <sheytan> need a ppa to test 5.6
[09:33]  * clivejo pokes LP
[09:34] <clivejo> hard and in the eyes
[09:46] <acheron88> someone on #kubuntu has probs with plasma-discover
[09:46] <acheron88> I don't use it, so no idea
[09:47]  * acheron88 wonders in LP will poke back, or just fall over...
[09:47] <clivejo> probably just be stubborn and go extra slow
[09:49] <clivejo> regarding discover I dont know
[09:59]  * mamarley kicks LP.
[10:00] <clivejo> finally!!
[10:00] <clivejo> kparts is published
[10:00] <mamarley> clivejo: Sorry, I just woke up.  I can't commit acts of digital violence in my sleep. :p
[10:00]  * clivejo pokes it again
[10:02]  * clivejo sings
[10:09] <clivejo> me father was a fairy, me mudder a banshee
[10:21] <soee> ohayō gozaimasu
[10:22] <clivejo> huh?
[10:26] <soee> well learn new words :-)
[10:26] <soee> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8CQDP13px4
[11:18] <soee> http://www.alexl.netsons.org/blogposts/some-new-breeze-app-icons-in-frameworks-5-22/
[11:31] <BluesKaj> Howdy all
[11:37] <clivejo> hi
[11:40] <BluesKaj> well, my Yakkety install is borked again , no plasmashell or any shells are vailable according to the notifications when trying to startx after sddm fails
[11:40] <BluesKaj> available
[11:42] <soee> ~.>~
[11:47] <BluesKaj> so far YY has been nthe worst testing OS kubuntu has put out
[11:51] <acheron88> to be fair, kubuntu hasn't really 'put out' anything for yaketty yet.
[11:56] <mamarley> BluesKaj: And absolutely none of those problems are Kubuntu's fault.  Also, you really shouldn't be running the development release this early unless you expect many problems and are confident that you can fix them.
[11:56] <soee> +1
[11:56] <soee> first alpha might be a good starting point
[11:57] <acheron88> I toyed with going with yakkety, but have not so far apart from a VM, and so far am glad
[11:59] <mamarley> Yeah, I have a VM too.  At the moment I don't plan to upgrade any of my real systems until after both GCC 6 and Qt 5.6 have been uploaded and any fallout has been resolved.
[12:00] <acheron88> might try on an old intel only laptop on a seperate partition, which it dowsn't matter if I break, but that's as far as I'll go for now.
[12:01] <BluesKaj> mamarley:  it's my testing OS, not my regular use OS , I was asked as a tester to report breakage which I'm doing
[12:02] <acheron88> xenial, despite some faults, has been pretty stable
[12:03] <acheron88> fair enough. think it was the way you phrased your comment....
[12:05] <BluesKaj> I suppose it was a  bit harsh, but true nevertheless
[12:05]  * clivejo bites tongue
[12:06] <BluesKaj> plasma 5.6.4 , but i do think the kernel module problem with nvidia is also at work here
[12:07] <acheron88> sddm is fragile at best
[12:08] <acheron88> will lightdm start?
[12:08] <acheron88> if that won't either, then something is up with the driver/X
[12:08] <clivejo> taking 30mins or more to publish on LP
[12:10] <clivejo> the released kernel in Yakkety is broken
[12:10] <clivejo> it wont compiled the modules needed to install drivers
[12:10] <clivejo> with is nothing to do with Kubuntu or 5.6.4
[12:10] <clivejo> this
[12:11] <acheron88> I thought BluesKaj had the fixed 4.6RC7 kernel installed and the patched nvidia?
[12:11] <acheron88> maybe not?
[12:11] <BluesKaj> I'm begining to wonder if the switch to systemd hasn't created more problems than  it solves ...so far I've had to be nuetral on that debate because I don't know enough about it, but circumstantial evidence sems to point at it
[12:13] <BluesKaj> acheron88:  I was going to try the 4.6 rc7 kernel , but adding to the instability at this point in the process isn't a good idea
[12:14] <clivejo> BluesKaj: the problem is the kernel
[12:14] <BluesKaj> clivejo:  yeah the 4.4.0-22
[12:15] <clivejo> the modules wont build on 4.4.0-21 either
[12:16] <clivejo> my nvidia mudules would only build on 4.6rc7 with the patches in mamarley's PPA
[12:17] <BluesKaj> isn't the 4.6 officially released ?
[12:17] <clivejo> Ive not seen it in the archive yet
[12:17] <acheron88> the 4.6RC7 kernel is pretty solid, and as clivejo says you are not going do get driver modules to build without
[12:18] <acheron88> 4.5 final was only yesterday
[12:18] <acheron88> *4.6
[12:19] <clivejo> its very unfair blaming us(kubuntu) for something we have absolutely no control over
[12:20] <clivejo> I fell into the same hole and got stuck in it for a few days
[12:20] <acheron88> not sure if the patch to enable module module builds on yakkety toolchain is in the vanilla kernel.org 4.6 though
[12:20] <acheron88> apw has it applied to the 4.6 in the kernel team ppa
[12:21] <BluesKaj> https://linux.slashdot.org/story/16/05/16/0357226/linux-kernel-46-officially-released
[12:21] <acheron88> http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v4.6-yakkety/
[12:21] <acheron88> has 0002-disable-pie-when-gcc-has-it-enabled-by-default.patch so can't be in the kernel.org source yet then
[12:22] <clivejo> soee_: you about?
[12:23] <soee_> clivejo: yup
[12:23] <clivejo> do you have a XX to do a test install of Frameworks 5.22?
[12:24] <soee_> yes
[12:24] <clivejo> trashable?
[12:24] <clivejo> ie non-production?
[12:25] <soee_> i know how to fix things if i broke them :)
[12:25] <clivejo> Im just waiting on LP to publish krunner
[12:26] <clivejo> https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa/+archive/ubuntu/staging-frameworks/+packages?field.name_filter=krunner&field.status_filter=published&field.series_filter=xenial
[12:26] <BluesKaj> clivejo:  just to clarify , not using the nvidia driver on YY , just the default open source nouveau. I did install plasma 5.6.4 however
[12:27] <BluesKaj> and the staging ppa is commented in the sources.list
[12:27] <clivejo> soee_: when that green cog, turns to a green tick can you add the staging-frameworks PPA and do an install test for me please?
[12:27] <soee_> clivejo: yes
[12:27] <clivejo> BluesKaj: with that kernel bug, no kernel modules will compile
[12:28] <clivejo> I lost my virtualbox module
[12:28]  * clivejo goes off to find food
[12:29] <BluesKaj> clivejo:  thing is that YY was working quite well with nouveau , no flickering or obvious graphics problems
[12:29] <acheron88> nouveau 'should' be fine
[12:29] <BluesKaj> yeah , it was
[12:29] <BluesKaj> still is on XX too
[12:31] <acheron88> but installing 5.6.4 killed sddm?
[12:31] <acheron88> or any graphical startup?
[12:32] <BluesKaj> acheron88:  seems so, plus plasmashell , no had to drop to vy/tty to try a login
[12:33] <BluesKaj> no graphical startup
[12:33] <acheron88> odd
[12:34] <BluesKaj> well going to try to login again
[12:34] <BluesKaj> bbl
[12:34] <clivejo> soee_: krunner published, can you run the test?
[12:35] <acheron88> BluesKaj: what error in /var/log/sddm.log if any?
[12:35] <soee_> clivejo: sure
[12:35] <soee_> clivejo: it will remove dbg files: libkf5solid5-dbg libkf5sonnet5-dbg libkf5threadweaver5-dbg plasma-framework-dbg
[12:36] <clivejo> is it replacing them with version 6?
[12:36] <clivejo> oh they debugging symbols
[12:36] <clivejo> probably thinks you dont need them
[12:37] <soee_> clivejo: no
[12:37] <clivejo> I think they safe to remove
[12:37] <soee_> and they are not used anymore to collect data when sending reports ?
[12:39] <clivejo> soee_: https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa/+archive/ubuntu/staging-frameworks/+build/9750273
[12:39] <clivejo> looks like they been renamed
[12:40] <clivejo> libkf5solid5-dbgsym
[12:40] <acheron88> clivejo: xenial box currently on 5.5.5 http://paste.ubuntu.com/16458661/
[12:41] <soee_> clivejo: so we do not replace them when upgrading frameworks ?
[12:41] <soee_> liek replace plasma-framework-dbg with plasma-framework-dbgsym ?
[12:42] <clivejo> its a new debian idea I think
[12:42] <clivejo> http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/pkg-kde/frameworks/solid.git/tree/debian/rules
[12:42] <soee_> yofel: ^
[12:42] <clivejo> not sure how it works
[12:42] <clivejo> the debugging packages are being generated automatically
[12:43] <clivejo> https://wiki.debian.org/AutomaticDebugPackages
[12:44] <soee_> clivejo: my question is: if people have some xxx-dbg packages installed than they will be removed and users have to install new one again? So there is no way to migrate them to new one automatially?
[12:45] <clivejo> soee_: that I dont know
[12:45] <allee> soee_: apport should reload the debsym pkg (I assume).  No need to installed them in advance + their future updates until something crashes
[12:46] <clivejo> most users wont have the debugging packages installed
[12:46] <clivejo> unless needed to report a bug
[12:46] <soee_> clivejo: so im starting upgrade
 /me see's how much activity has been taking place in devel recently.. and his mind boggles...
[12:46]  * clivejo crosses fingers
 WoW!! So much I simply do not know
[12:48] <clivejo> do-all git merge kubuntu_yakkety_archive
[12:49] <allee> debsym pkg default in debian since 2016: https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2015/12/msg00262.html
[12:50] <soee_> download speed is ~ 120 kB/s :/
[12:53]  * clivejo pulls soee_'s button
[12:53] <clivejo> pushes
[12:54] <soee_> clivejo: why plasma-framework has 'a' in version ?
[12:56] <soee_> clivejo: 1 error
[12:56] <mamarley> dpkg: error processing archive /var/cache/apt/archives/qml-module-org-kde-activities_5.22.0-0ubuntu1~ubuntu16.04~ppa1_amd64.deb (--unpack):
[12:56] <mamarley>  trying to overwrite '/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/qt5/qml/org/kde/activities/qmldir', which is also in package qml-module-org-kde-extensionplugin:amd64 5.21.0-0ubuntu1~ubuntu16.04~ppa2
[12:56] <soee_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/16459040/
[12:56] <soee_> yup, this one
[12:57] <mamarley> Repeating the aptitude upgrade installs the package successfully though.
[12:57] <soee_> oO
[12:58] <mamarley> It looks like that file moved from one package in 5.21 to another in 5.22, so installing 5.22 of the first package removes the file which then allows for the clean installation of the file from the other package the second time around.
[12:58] <allee> Ah, looks like -dgb and -dgbsym.ddeb content is the same, but: -dgbsysm are build on the distro build server (-> always there), are in a different archive ( -> smaller apt update download volume especially for for soee, less load on mirrors)
[12:59] <soee_> mamarley: so what is the proper way to have it working on first attempt ?
[12:59]  * mamarley isn't sure, sorry.
[13:00] <soee_> allee: so those dub packages are generated on ubuntu servers
[13:00] <soee_> ?
[13:00] <soee_> *dbg
[13:01] <soee_> qml-module-org-kde-activities : Depends: libkf5activities5 (= 5.21.0-0ubuntu1~ubuntu16.04~ppa2) but 5.22.0-0ubuntu1~ubuntu16.04~ppa1 is installed
[13:02] <mamarley> soee_: Yeah, that's just a side-effect of the file duplicate error.  If you upgrade again, it should go away.
[13:02] <soee_> i had to use -f install
[13:02] <allee> soee_: that how I understand the info for debian and ubuntu on the web.  So no need to update debian/rules for dbg support + extra debug pkg repository
[13:03] <soee_> let m reboot, brb
[13:06] <soee> and i'm back
[13:08] <allee> soee: dbgsym.ddeb are automaticly build.  -dbg need debian/rules support.  With dbgsym on by default -dbg are no longer needed
[13:08] <allee> ^^ AFAIU up to now ;-)
 Can anyone come up with a fix for that file conflict?
[13:25] <BluesKaj> ok , got a desktop on YY , had to remove the powerdevil dependency in order to get the kubuntu-desktop back
[13:27] <BluesKaj> but the plasmashell is back to 5.5.5
[13:30] <mamarley> clivejo: Besides the file conflict, FW5.22 seems to work fine on Xenial. :)  I don't know how to fix the conflict though, sorry.
[13:33] <mamarley> clivejo: Perhaps add some sort of dependency trickery to make the package that contains the file in 5.22 conflict with the package that contains the file in 5.21 to ensure the old package will get upgraded before the new one?
[13:34] <mamarley> I'm not sure what the "right" way to do these things is.
[13:45] <soee> Riddell: ping
[13:45] <Riddell> hi soee
[13:46] <soee> Riddell: can you help us with one thing ?
[13:46] <Riddell> dunno, what is it?
[13:46] <soee> this one http://paste.ubuntu.com/16459040/
[13:46] <soee> what is the proper way to fix such problems when packaging ?
[13:48] <Riddell> qml-module-org-kde-extensionplugin is a transitional dummy package, it shouldn't have any files in it
[13:48] <soee> clivejo: ^
[13:49] <Riddell> so work out why it has files in it and stop that
[14:19] <soee> anyone tried: http://www.etcher.io ?
[14:22] <marco-parillo> soee: Looks promising. I used to use unetbootin becayse I used to be terrified of dd, but unetbootin has not worked for me for maybe none months and since then,  I have not destroyed my data yet.
[14:23] <soee> :)
[14:52] <clivejo> soee: can you ppa-purge frameworks 5.22 on Xenial?
[14:55]  * clivejo taps mic
[14:55] <clivejo> is this thing on?
[14:55]  * mamarley drops the mic.
[14:55] <soee> clivejo: sure
[15:02]  * clivejo wanders off to mow some grass
[15:03] <clivejo> soee: https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa/+archive/ubuntu/staging-frameworks/+packages?field.name_filter=kactivities-kf5&field.status_filter=published&field.series_filter=xenial
[15:03] <clivejo> if kactivities-kf5 ever publishes and gets a tick, will you try installing it again
[15:22] <rbasak> yofel: o/
[15:23] <rbasak> yofel: would you mind responding to https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2016-May/007860.html please? I know the process is working as designed, but various users seem to be panicking.
[15:23] <rbasak> yofel: see what I did with the bug description in bug 1539634 for example.
[15:23] <rbasak> It's probably users who have proposed enabled but shouldn't.
[15:24] <rbasak> yofel: also, if the package in proposed is known bad now, you can ask someone in the SRU team to delete it if that will help (eg. if not all users with proposed enabled have updated to it, then that might stop those users being hit)
[15:25] <rbasak> yofel: I hope that helps. I haven't done anything myself to avoid stepping on your toes, but if you'd like me to do something, just let me know.
[15:29] <soee> clivejo:
[15:29] <soee> dpkg: error processing archive  /var/cache/apt/archives/qml-module-org-kde-activities_5.22.0-0ubuntu1~ubuntu16.04~ppa2_amd64.deb (--unpack):
[15:29] <soee>  trying to overwrite "/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/qt5/qml/org/kde/activities/libkactivitiesextensionplugin.so", which is also in package qml-module-org-kde-extensionplugin:amd64 5.21.0-0ubuntu1~ubuntu16.04~ppa2
[15:31] <soee> clivejo: so similar issue ?
[15:32] <soee> ok this breakis harde rto fix
[15:34] <soee> clivejo: i have reverted to FW 5.21 will test again when this problem is fixed :)
[16:38]  * clivejo throws stuff around
[16:41] <soee> :D
[16:43] <clivejo> soee: can you purge and try again?
[16:43] <clivejo> Ill need help if this time doesnt fix it
[16:44] <clivejo> oh, need to wait til it publishes
[16:44] <soee> i purged before
[16:45] <clivejo> If I go crazy then will you still call me superman
[16:47]  * clivejo sings
[17:09]  * BluesKaj wonders if he dares go back and give plasma 5.6.4 another try ;P
 Soee can you try again please?
[17:10] <soee> already doing it :)
 Mind reader!
[17:12] <soee> dpkg: error processing archive /var/cache/apt/archives/qml-module-org-kde-activities_5.22.0-0ubuntu1~ubuntu16.04~ppa2_amd64.deb (--unpack):
[17:12] <soee>  trying to overwrite '/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/qt5/qml/org/kde/activities/libkactivitiesextensionplugin.so', which is also in package qml-module-org-kde-extensionplugin:amd64 5.21.0-0ubuntu1~ubuntu16.04~ppa2
 Ffs
[17:12] <sgclark> mm
[17:13] <sgclark> that extensionplugin should not be in that package
 Please help!!
[17:14] <sgclark> afraid I am leaving for a bit, will when I get back
 Ah no prob
 @Cliff if we finish FW 5.22 and than build Plasma 5.6.4 against it, will they be ready to move to backports ppa?
[17:39] <mamarley> clivejo: qml-module-org-kde-extensionplugin -ppa3 doesn't contain any files it shouldn't.  The problem is that -ppa2 and before did contain the libkactivitiesextensionplugin.so file, so when qml-module-org-kde-activities (which now contains that file) gets upgraded before qml-module-org-kde-extensionplugin, the file conflict occurs.
[17:59] <clivejo> mamarley: so I need to add a breaks/replace for qml-module-org-kde-extensionplugin?
[18:00] <mamarley> clivejo: Now that I look again, soee was actually installing the -ppa2 version.
[18:00] <mamarley> I am purging one of my systems so that I can repeat the test with -ppa3.
 I tried old one?
[18:01] <clivejo> the file has moved from qml-module-org-kde-extensionplugin to qml-module-org-kde-extensionplugin
 It was after package has been published
[18:01] <mamarley> The error message you posted indicates -ppa2 for your packages, so yes.
 Let me try again
[18:02] <clivejo> so qml-module-org-kde-extensionplugin should be an empty transitional dummy package now, depending on qml-module-org-kde-activities
[18:02]  * clivejo sniffs
[18:03] <clivejo> and I think I stepped in dog poo
[18:03] <mamarley> It is already an empty package in the -ppa3 version.
[18:05] <soee> clivejo: now all was fine :)
[18:06] <mamarley> clivejo: Yeah, looks that way here too.  An upgrade from the FW5.21 in staging-plasma to FW5.22 in staging-frameworks has 0 errors.
[18:06] <mamarley> Time for plasma. :)
[18:06] <soee> http://paste.ubuntu.com/16466095/
 *shakes fist at soee*
 Scarin the bejayus outta me
[18:08]  * soee blames LP for beeing lazy
[18:09] <mamarley> clivejo: You do an awesome job, thanks! :)
[18:10] <clivejo> would someone mind testing an install of frameworks 5.22 from the staging ppa on dev aka Yak
[18:10] <clivejo> I pushed the same update for it as well
[18:11] <mamarley> clivejo: Sorry, the laptop on which my VM runs fell off the network earlier and I can't get to it anymore. :(
[18:12] <clivejo> soee: regarding your 5.22.0a question, KDE spun those tarballs
[18:13] <clivejo> I had introduced the original source to LP, therefore if you change the source code you have to change the version number
[18:13] <clivejo> soee: you should sub to the release ML
[18:16] <clivejo> soee: Im guessing you already found http://qa.kubuntu.co.uk/ppa-status/plasma/build_status_5.6.4_xenial.html
[18:16] <mamarley> clivejo: But I will be more than willing to test Yakkety again once I get home and reset my laptop.
[18:16] <clivejo> mamarley: not a problem
[18:17] <clivejo> it *should* be resolved there
[18:17] <clivejo> just wanted to confirm
[18:18] <clivejo> anyone tried the daily yakkety iso?
[18:20] <mamarley> Stupid green gear.
 Not in last 3 days - before couldn't install in VB
[18:48] <ahoneybun> mm when can we get KDE Telepathy working again?
[18:48] <ahoneybun> its been broken since 15.10 at least
[18:51]  * mamarley kicks LP.
[18:52] <ahoneybun> ovidiuflorin said we are just missing packages
[18:52] <mamarley> Ooh, it worked!  As soon as I kicked it, some packages started compiling!
[18:53] <clivejo> I thought it was broken until the components are ported to kf5?
 I said what?
[18:53] <ahoneybun> I think it should work
[18:53] <clivejo> mamarley: keep kicking it!
[18:53]  * mamarley kicks LP.
[18:53]  * mamarley kicks LP.
[18:57]  * ahoneybun upgrades
[18:58] <clivejo> ahoneybun: upgrade to what?
[18:58] <ahoneybun> that ppa
[18:58] <clivejo> noooo
[18:58] <ahoneybun> 144 u?
[18:58] <ahoneybun> ?
[18:58] <clivejo> 5.6.4 is being built
[18:58] <ahoneybun> oh k
[18:59] <ahoneybun> was still downloading
[18:59] <clivejo> wait until 5.6.4 is staged
[18:59] <ahoneybun> k
[19:00] <clivejo> will be missing packages left right and centre
[19:03] <clivejo> what do you guys think of the breeze plymouth theme?
[19:03]  * mamarley loves his text console boot.
 Never seen it
 I think soee posted screen shots of it
 On google +
[19:08] <ahoneybun> 5.6.3 runs well so far
[19:12] <ahoneybun> who is running the Wire?
[19:12]  * mamarley kicks LP.
[19:12] <ahoneybun> should we ask testers to try 5.6.4 clivejo?
[19:13] <mamarley> It isn't ready in Xenial yet.  Still compiling.
[19:13] <ahoneybun> once it is ready
[19:18] <BluesKaj> running it here on Yakkety ...all seems ok so far. Sticking with the opensource nouveau gpu driver and it's quite stable so far.
[19:24] <acheron88> may try on xenial, but seems 5.6 has done away with easy customisation of plasma themes in kcm :(
[19:24] <acheron88> but will have to put up with it eventually, so.....
[19:28] <BluesKaj> acheron88:  once I finished installing 5.6.4, I rebooted and my initial colour theme was restored
[19:28] <acheron88> that's odd
[19:29] <acheron88> I was meaning the workspace plasma theme i.e. panel, widget background etc.
[19:29] <BluesKaj> I have the ppa disabled atm
[19:30] <acheron88> They've doen away with the Desktop Theme > Detail tab, where you could say pick a panel style from another theme while leaving the rest Breeze etc
[19:32] <acheron88> Think on the colour thing, even on 5.5.5 have had a few odd moments when changing some colours rendered new qt app with the stock colour scheme in error, until some of the kde processes got a restart
[19:32] <BluesKaj> I have the desktop theme option available here, but I was referring to the application colour scheme settings
[19:33] <acheron88> I know, I was referring to deskop one which has been taken away in 5.6.x
[19:35] <acheron88> colour schemes have been a bit glitchy in 5.5.x for me even now
[19:35] <BluesKaj> the desktop theme is in the workspace them in YY
[19:36] <BluesKaj> think it's the same in XX
[19:36] <acheron88> It is, but in plasma 5.6 they have removed the details tab where you could customize
[19:37] <BluesKaj> I have plsam 5.6 .4 and you still have the get new thememes option
[19:38] <BluesKaj> plasma even
[19:38] <BluesKaj> bbl
[19:38] <acheron88> This tab has gone: http://i.imgur.com/FY96zOy.png
[19:42] <acheron88> gone in 5.6.x http://i.imgur.com/byiVYeV.png
[19:44] <acheron88> this decision for 5.6 https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/126953/
[20:06] <acheron88> clivejo: I use 'GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="noplymouth"'
[20:07] <clivejo> put its so pretty!
[20:07] <acheron88> pretty graphics on boot or even login is superfluous as far as I'm concerned
[20:07] <clivejo> LOL me too to be honest
[20:08] <clivejo> I like seeing all the stuff loading and playing togeather nicely
[20:08] <acheron88> lol. I was typing that while you replied
[20:08] <clivejo> looks cool
[20:09] <acheron88> yep. even have 'GRUB_GFXPAYLOAD_LINUX=text' set here to make sure even the early text stuff shows
[20:09] <acheron88> have they done any pics?
[20:10] <acheron88> plymouth doesn't do nice graphics in Virtualbox here
[20:38] <ahoneybun> whois soee
[20:38] <ahoneybun> lol
[20:39] <ahoneybun> oh that
[20:39] <ahoneybun> clivejo https://plus.google.com/photos/photo/110954078302330754910/6282456261394416674?sqid=108139456908538054874&ssid=071f86c9-07eb-4262-b193-650bb6053552
[20:39] <clivejo> thats the one
[20:40] <clivejo> soee showing off!
[20:42] <acheron88> defo sticking with a text boot
[20:49]  * clivejo kicks the living hell outta LP
[20:53] <acheron88> could be worse https://blogs.kde.org/2016/05/16/compiling-all-qt5-kf5-plasma5-kdepim5-apps
[20:56] <acheron88> dread to think how long THAT would take, even on this PC
[21:04] <clivejo> I dont understand why it takes so long to copy a few files
[21:05] <clivejo> all the hard work (installing the build environment and compiling, packing the debs) has alreadly been done
[21:09] <shadeslayer> clivejo: context?
[21:09] <clivejo> Launchpad publisher
[21:09] <shadeslayer> because the publisher runs on a schedule
[21:09] <shadeslayer> and because launchpad has like a million repositories
[21:10] <clivejo> takes 30mins to make the packages available after builder has made them
[21:10] <shadeslayer> yeah, that's because launchpad is so big
[21:10] <shadeslayer> ( and it's written in python )
[21:12] <acheron88> 5.6.4 still incomplete for xenial then.
[21:13] <acheron88> I'll try tomorrow if everything gets built/copied or whatever
[21:18]  * clivejo pokes LP
[21:24] <acheron88> launchpad must be sore by now
[21:28] <clivejo> just lucky I dont take a baseball bat to it
[21:30] <valorie> clivejo: I can test YY frameworks on my "old" computer if you like
[21:31] <clivejo> valorie: sure, you can test plasma 5.6.4 too :)
[21:33] <valorie> all in staging-plasma ?
[21:34]  * mamarley kicks LP.
[21:36] <shadeslayer> hey stop kicking the poor server
[21:36] <mamarley> OK, I will try this instead:
[21:36]  * mamarley slaps LP around a bit with a large trout.
[21:36] <valorie> ok, it's updating
[21:37] <shadeslayer> noooo, staph, my server can't download stuff of LP because you keep kicking it
[21:37] <shadeslayer> or slapping it
[21:37] <shadeslayer> :P
[21:37] <mamarley> It looks like the fish-slap worked though.  It is compiling again. :)
[21:41] <clivejo> valorie: wait
[21:41] <clivejo> grrr, never mind
[21:41] <clivejo> Im going insane
[21:42] <valorie> oops?
[21:42] <valorie> 'cause it's rebooting
[21:42] <clivejo> any install errors?
[21:46] <valorie> no, everything was cool
[21:46] <valorie> just a bunch of stuff to remove
[21:47] <valorie> btw, successfully made a new activity
[21:47] <valorie> dunno how to switch to it to test though
[21:48] <valorie> got it, had to install the switcher widget
[21:52] <valorie> I set that activity to suspend after no activity for 5 mins, so let's see if that happens
[21:52] <valorie> and if so, how it recovers from suspending
[21:56] <soee> clivejo: trying update and it wants to remove language files:
[21:56] <soee> kde-l10n-engb kde-l10n-pl language-pack-kde-en language-pack-kde-pl
[21:57]  * clivejo face palms
[21:57] <clivejo> they'll need backported too
[21:58] <soee> but wait, some packages still build
[21:58] <soee> in plasma-staging, so lets wait till it is finished
[21:59] <clivejo> yup!
[21:59] <clivejo> wait !!
[22:00] <clivejo> but kde-l10n will need backported too
[22:01] <soee> i see :)
[22:01] <valorie> hmmm, it never suspended
[22:13] <valorie> ok, looks like I set it for 15 mins or something
[22:16] <soee> clivejo: can you trigger kmenuedit rebuild ?
[22:17]  * clivejo kicks LP
[22:19] <clivejo> !info kde-l10n-pl xenial
[22:23] <sgclark> umm that is very strange. we had an SRU for 15.12.3 and yofel had to upload them as I couldn't manage it.
[22:23] <sgclark> but that version shows something went wrong again
[22:24] <clivejo> sgclark: did you see yofel moved the kde-l10n to git?
[22:25] <clivejo> and Ive just made a boo boo
[22:25] <clivejo> https://code.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/+git/kde-l10n-common
[22:26] <clivejo> I commited to master(which is yakkety) when I should have commited to xenial_backports
[22:27] <clivejo> Ill have to wait until this script finishes and revert that
[22:28] <clivejo> another bandwidth hog
[22:28] <mamarley> clivejo: You probably also need to upload kde-spectacle for a rebuild again; it seems to have been deleted.
[22:30] <clivejo> mamarley: yeah I deleted it, I was trying to copy over the new one from apps staging
[22:31] <mamarley> Thanks :)
[22:31] <clivejo> but LP is complaining about the source being in the PPA or something
[22:35] <clivejo> where is that darn kde-l10n documentation
[22:35] <clivejo> can never find it
[22:39] <valorie> http://i18n.kde.org/ >
[22:39] <valorie> ?
[22:39] <valorie> or something on techbase?
[22:39] <clivejo> https://community.kde.org/Kubuntu/Packaging/L10nOperatorGuide
[22:40] <clivejo> valorie: can you edit that?
[22:40] <valorie> yes
[22:40] <clivejo> the line saying "debsign build/kde-10n-*.changes"
[22:40] <clivejo> should be "debsign build/kde-l10n-*.changes"
[22:41] <clivejo> actually "debsign build/build-area/kde-l10n-*.changes"
[22:42] <valorie> in the section Doing a release of kde-l10n-common ?
[22:42] <clivejo> yup
[22:42] <valorie> done
[22:46] <clivejo> sgclark yofel: Im not sure what to do about the xenial_backport changelog
[22:47] <clivejo> https://git.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/+git/kde-l10n-common/tree/debian/changelog?h=kubuntu_xenial_backports&id=bee4203c07042ea5fdda4c8f8c170f010b3efbb0
[22:47] <sgclark> context?
[22:47] <clivejo> that last entry is 4:15.12.3-0ubuntu1.1) xenial
[22:47] <clivejo> but I cant find it anywhere?
[22:47] <sgclark> that was the SRU that was supposedly fixed
[22:47] <sgclark> yofel said he uploaded it
[22:48] <sgclark> dunno :(
[22:48] <clivejo> did it get through?
[22:48] <sgclark> doesnt look like it to me
[22:48] <clivejo> me neither
[22:49] <clivejo> oh wait, its in proposed
[22:49] <clivejo> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kde-l10n-engb
[22:50] <clivejo> my version needs to be 4:15.12.3-0ubuntu1.2 then?
[22:50] <soee> valorie: ping
[22:50] <sgclark> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1576455
[22:51] <clivejo> yeah, I see that
[22:51] <soee> sgclark: would you be interested for a while with "Packaging Mentor" ? there is an email on ML
[22:52] <sgclark> hahahahaha. I am trying to reduce my work so I can get a real job that pays. I am so sorry.
[22:52] <soee> ok :)
[22:52] <sgclark> what really needs to happen is those packaging parties. But get them past the making of ssh keys :)
[22:53] <clivejo> sgclark: agreed
[22:53] <clivejo> need to actually do some packaging
[22:53] <clivejo> do an hour or so learning and have the party afterwards
[22:53] <sgclark> yes
[22:53] <sgclark> exactly
[22:53] <valorie> soee: pong
[22:54] <soee> valorie: check ML
[22:55] <valorie> well, that I couldn't mentor since I've not packaged anything but trail food and Christmas presents
[22:55] <soee> valorie: would be good to invite nathan to this channel and find packaging mentor for him
[22:55] <valorie> that I can do!
[22:55] <clivejo> there are too many ML
[22:56]  * clivejo cant keep up
[22:56] <valorie> you don't have to read every email from each list
[22:56] <clivejo> and Kontact certainly cant!
[22:56] <valorie> just the important stuff
[22:56] <valorie> of course finding the important stuff is the hard part
[22:57]  * clivejo ponders getting a personal assistant
[22:59] <valorie> I've wanted that for years
[22:59]  * sgclark wonders if her message went through before her internet dropped
[22:59] <valorie> but......
[22:59] <valorie> last line from sgclark
[23:00] <valorie> exactly
[23:00] <sgclark> my bouncer does not seem to work well
[23:00] <sgclark> what is exaclty?
[23:00] <sgclark> clivejo: did you get my message about the translations?
[23:00] <valorie> the last line I see from you
[23:01] <sgclark> oh
[23:01] <sgclark> boo
 clivejo: oh I see, they have to be tested before that will move them to archive
[23:01] <clivejo> Im not sure
 so all you folks with non english languages please test https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1576455
[23:01] <clivejo> no, didnt see that
[23:01] <sgclark> they have to be tested and then confirmed on the bug
[23:01] <sgclark> before they will release to archive
[23:02] <clivejo> sgclark: yes I understand that
[23:02] <sgclark> no one has tested
[23:02] <sgclark> I wouldnt know what to test, nor do I know other languages, best tested by someone who does. soee?
[23:02] <clivejo> but I need a release with kcm_activities blacklisted as its conflicting with plasma 5.6.4
[23:03] <sgclark> then I suggest 1.2 and add a debdiff to that bug
[23:03] <valorie> soee: done
[23:03] <sgclark> so it will be included
[23:03] <soee> valorie: tahnk you
[23:03] <clivejo> yeah, Ive just run ubuntu1.2
[23:04] <clivejo> Ill pop it in the plasma PPA and test if it fixes the plasma 5.6.4 install conflict
[23:04] <sgclark> debdiff between last upload .dsc and your new one and attach it to bug and ask them to put in proposed for testing
[23:04] <sgclark> ok
[23:04] <clivejo> is there any need?
[23:05] <sgclark> oh probably not
[23:05] <clivejo> plasma 5.6.4 wont make it to the main archive?
[23:05] <soee> sgclark: but those files shpuldn't be tested by someone from release team?
[23:05] <sgclark> as new plasma will not go in archive
[23:05] <valorie> why will it not go in archive?
[23:05] <sgclark> soee: no it needs to be tested by users affected
[23:05] <sgclark> by translations issues
[23:05] <valorie> is it only bugfixes that go in?
[23:05] <clivejo> as long as it makes it to our backports PPA
[23:05] <sgclark> correct valorie
[23:05] <sgclark> right clivejo
[23:05] <sgclark> sorry
[23:06] <sgclark> I confused myself
[23:06] <valorie> ok, so I guess for 16.04.1 we have some bugfix work to do
[23:06] <clivejo> theres that major nm bug!
[23:06] <valorie> renee77's work will be really valuable
[23:06] <sgclark> right , things like those translations
[23:06] <valorie> clivejo: that one is huge
[23:07] <valorie> and evidently long-standing
[23:07] <valorie> Trusty users were affected!
[23:07] <sgclark> also I have been working on this monster Bug 1451728
[23:07] <sgclark> which will need an SRU
[23:08] <soee> what is the real issue with those l10n packages? What exactly/how needs to be tested?
[23:09] <clivejo> soee: can you ppa purge plasma 5.6.4 and do an apt update and reinstall please?
[23:10] <soee> clivejo: i did not installed 5.6.4, i have 5.6.3 from this ppa
[23:10] <clivejo> kde have decided to move translations out of the main translations tarballs into the plasma packages
[23:11] <sgclark> soee: there was a stack of non english translations that never got uploaded, so installer would barf if those were selected. hmm not sure how to test without iso
[23:11] <clivejo> so the new kactivities package is trying to install translation files on top of the kde-l10n
[23:11] <sgclark> is there such thing as proposed ISO ?
[23:11] <soee> sgclark: i doubt
[23:11] <sgclark> clivejo: I vaguely recall yofel mentioning they are moving away from kde-i10n?
[23:12] <soee> clivejo: a lot of l10n packages still builds on LP in staging-plasma
[23:12] <clivejo> sgclark: looks like it
[23:12] <clivejo> I dont understand why
[23:12] <sgclark> he said to look at baloo for exmple to handle
[23:12] <sgclark> example
[23:12] <clivejo> yes, we got it working in yakkety
[23:12] <sgclark> soee: I will ask on bug how we can test. I am not really sure.
[23:12] <clivejo> he showed me how to blacklist it
[23:13] <soee> sgclark: thank you.
[23:13] <clivejo> sgclark: https://git.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/+git/kde-l10n-common/commit/?id=2f9bcd8a8994e5a1972de40c31b6a9d2721420b3
[23:13] <clivejo> if you are interested
[23:14] <sgclark> clivejo: ty
[23:14] <clivejo> I dont understand how exactly it works, but it resolves the conflict
[23:16] <yotux> I'm looking at heling package new or current software is becoming a member of lp teams the best frist step?
[23:16] <clivejo> oh great, the rules in plasma-desktop needs to be modified to work with backported kde-l10n
[23:18] <soee> yotux: what package?
[23:19] <yotux> is there a list or workflow of packages that need to be updated
[23:20] <soee> yotux: hmm, i'm not sure. We have Frameworks, Plasma and Application to package after each release by KDE community
[23:21] <soee> sometmes some other packages if they are requested
[23:21] <valorie> yotux: we've been working on https://community.kde.org/Kubuntu/Packaging#Getting_Started
[23:21] <valorie> it would be cool if you worked your way through that,
[23:21] <valorie> and fix things in the doc if you find out they are wrong, out-dated, etc.
[23:22] <valorie> I'm trying to do that as well
[23:23] <mamarley> clivejo: It is amazing how good you have gotten at this in so little time.  Great job!
[23:24] <clivejo> good teachers!
[23:24] <yotux> I have been looking at referenced doc
[23:39] <clivejo> am I still connected?
[23:46] <soee> clivejo: yes
[23:47] <clivejo> soee: have you time to try plasma 5.6.4 install?
[23:48] <soee> clivejo: plasma-desktop is not ready
[23:48] <clivejo> Im just waiting on plasma-desktop to publish
[23:48] <soee> :)
[23:48]  * mamarley kicks LP.
[23:49] <mamarley> Hah, it worked!
[23:49] <soee> yeah ~ 15 min waiting to publish probably


[00:29] <diddledan> first result in
[00:30] <diddledan> yes: 46%; no: 54%
[00:33] <skellat> Out of what portion reporting?
[00:33] <diddledan> turnout?
[00:34] <skellat> What percent of voting territory
[00:34] <diddledan> donno. it's 1 ward out of 32
[00:34] <skellat> That works
[00:34] <skellat> Still way early
[00:34] <diddledan> but they're all differently sized so you can't say that's 1/32 of the electorate
[00:35] <diddledan> they're suggesting the final result will be known by three to four hours time
[00:43] <popey> \o/ Jabber
[00:43] <MattJ> Jabber \o/
[00:43] <MattJ> It's too late to do that to me
[00:43] <MattJ> or early
[00:58] <popey> hehe
[01:02] <diddledan> second result in
[01:02] <diddledan> waiting on the % calc but it's a hefty no
[01:03] <diddledan> yes: 33%; no: 67%
[01:03] <popey> quite a difference
[01:03] <diddledan> they're saying the constituency was pretty much guaranteed to vote no ahead of time
[01:04] <diddledan> with 2 declared, it's yes: 42%; no: 58%
[01:04] <diddledan> another 30 to go
[01:13] <diddledan> I gotta get some sleep - nn
[01:34] <vetman> anybody alive?
[07:41] <DJones> Oops, First person to but iphone 6 in Perth dropped it on tv http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/131043-first-person-to-buy-iphone-6-drops-it-on-camera-d-oh-video
[08:01] <SuperMatt> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/2898-ubuntu-utopic-unicorn-release-party/ BOOM
[08:16] <foobarry> surprised at the oracle news. everybody knows you can't hurd catz
[08:16] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[08:17] <ujjain> what is o2 priority?
[08:17] <ujjain> a members-only area with discounts for o2 users?
[08:18] <diplo> pretty muc ujjain
[08:18] <Myrtti> yup
[08:18] <diplo> much*
[08:18] <ujjain> can somebody log in and see if the nexus 7 32gb is on promotion?
[08:18] <diplo> Can stick an O2 sim card in your phone, install the app and then go back to your original and it still works
[08:30] <brobostigon> irssi crashed last night, and totally died, amazing.
[08:34] <foobarry> i get that semi regularly
[08:35] <brobostigon> maybe its a script i have installed?
[08:38] <foobarry> why do i get u1 notifications (u1 will be shutting down) when i removed it all?
[08:43] <Myrtti> yeah I don't get that either
[08:44] <awilkins> I think I moved all the U1 music out into my main music collection anyway
[08:45] <awilkins> Hell, at least it wasn't U2 music  ;-D
[08:53] <foobarry> how much is a new ihpone off-contract?
[08:54] <brobostigon> something like £500 maybe more.
[08:54] <foobarry> wow.
[08:55] <foobarry> if only poor people knew about the other phones you can buy
[08:55] <brobostigon> apple make insane amounts of profit per device.
[08:55] <foobarry> hence beats
[08:56] <JamesTait> foobarry, http://askubuntu.com/questions/484328/how-do-i-stop-ubuntu-one-from-telling-me-its-file-service-will-be-shutting-down might help.
[08:57] <brobostigon> foobarry: people do know about other options, and i am sure most people understand, that most I-devices are meaningless fashion statements, and not always much else.
[08:57] <foobarry> JamesTait: thanks. beginning to think i did the package removal at home and not at work
[08:59] <JamesTait> foobarry, `sudo apt-get autoremove --purge python-ubuntuone-storageprotocol` appears to be the magical command.
[09:00] <Laney> can't we do an update that stops those messages?
[09:00] <Laney> AFAIK u1 is gone gone gone by now
[09:00] <foobarry> yep, i did a remove at home only
[09:00] <JamesTait> It is, but IIRC the U1 client isn't in Trusty at all.
[09:02] <JamesTait> I don't know enough about packaging, really, but maybe we could do a "Dummy transitional package" that just removes all the code?
[09:02]  * JamesTait realises what day it is.
[09:03]  * JamesTait checks.
[09:03] <awilkins> Friday 19th?
[09:03] <JamesTait> Yaaarrrr!
[09:03] <foobarry> let's all laugh at scotland day?
[09:04] <awilkins> It not be International Talk Like a Pirate day, Jimlad?
[09:04] <JamesTait> Yaaarrr, ye be right there, awilkins. :)
[09:07] <JamesTait> Yo ho ho, 'n' shiver me timbers! 'appy Friday 'n' 'appy Talk Like a Pirate Day!  Yaaarrr! :-D
[09:08]  * davmor2 makes JamesTait walk the plank
[09:09] <JamesTait> davmor2, surely ye mean launchpad?
[09:11] <davmor2> JamesTait: yaaarrrrr! Walk the Launchpad it'll take longer and be more painful
[09:20] <foobarry> did i answer this correctly? http://i.imgur.com/tg79jZc.png
[09:24] <popey> hah, they're bastards when they do that
[09:25] <popey> tick tick tick, ooh! no!
[09:25] <foobarry> still not sure if its correct
[09:25] <foobarry> was unsolicited named spam. not sure if i got scanned at a show or something
[09:27] <Myrtti> bah.
[09:27] <Myrtti> our tp-link had decided to just silently disable 5GHz wlan.
[09:28] <Myrtti> silly technology
[10:06] <davmor2> JamesTait: As you wish......that's talking like a pirate right?
[10:06] <davmor2> Myrtti: stick dd-wrt on it or open-wrt
[10:07] <JamesTait> davmor2, don't pirates talk about warez and torrents and things?
[10:07] <davmor2> JamesTait: Inconceivable
[10:08] <davmor2> JamesTait: I thought most of them spoke Somali
[10:12] <foobarry> o365 is worse than useless. cannot even bulk select more than about 10 emails at once
[10:12] <foobarry> and when you scroll down, the screen doesn't refresh the email list
[10:15] <popey> ( ͡°╭͜ʖ╮͡° )
[10:17]  * popey ♥ Unicode
[10:17] <foobarry> i can't use o666 on my phone either
[10:18] <foobarry> because it requires admin privs to run the activesync. (zimbra server did not require this for activesync)
[10:18] <foobarry> hence an incompetent user or sysadmin can wipe the entire device
[10:20] <awilkins> o365 requires ActiveSync?
[10:20] <awilkins> Blurrrgh
[10:21] <foobarry> yesh
[10:21] <awilkins> I shun ActiveSync because our sysadmin requires the power to nuke my phone from orbit and control my camera usage
[10:21] <foobarry> oh, i tried imap and my phones data plan got used up in a day
[10:21] <awilkins> Even if they don't use it, they get get stuffed
[10:22] <awilkins> For the "convenience" of people being able to pester me via email on my phone, it seems overkill
[10:22] <foobarry> i checked the helpdesk tickets
[10:23] <foobarry> students have wiped their phone by mistake
[10:23] <awilkins> I liked my N900 because it had an ActiveSync connector that ignored such commands from the server
[10:23] <foobarry> the whole thing
[10:23] <awilkins> Then ICT got wise to this and refused to let me use it
[10:26] <DJones> AlanBell: This might be of interest to you & TheOpenSourcerer (along with danfish if he was here) http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/09/19/open_source_nhs/
[10:31] <foobarry> Motorola Moto G..." has been dispatched
[10:31] <foobarry> \o/
[10:32] <Myrtti> new or old?
[10:32] <foobarry> old was better choice for me
[10:33] <foobarry> prefer the screen size and the price
[10:33] <foobarry> and is a trusted model
[10:34] <foobarry> if the new one had 4g is would be tempted
[10:35] <ujjain> 	 http://www.novatech.co.uk/products/components/harddrives-internal/solidstate/120gbto200gb/ssdsc2cw120a310.html
[10:35] <ujjain> cheap!
[10:35] <awilkins> Yeah, flash storage is getting cheaper... I think that's stock that's going out of fashion
[10:36] <awilkins> I have one of the 180GB ones in an enclosure and it's very nice
[10:43] <foobarry> what's the rules about registering an official channel in freenode?
[10:47] <popey> Dave2: ^
[10:47] <foobarry> hmm i think you have to be a subreddit moderator
[10:47] <foobarry> for a #reddit-blah chan
[10:47] <Myrtti> foobarry: http://freenode.net/policy.shtml#channelownership
[10:47] <Myrtti> or do it in snoonet
[10:48] <foobarry> Myrtti: snoonet is a different irc network?
[10:48] <Myrtti> yup
[10:49] <christel> yeah, it's where reddit officially moved to when they decided they didn't like us! :)
[10:49] <foobarry> oh i didn't know that
[10:49] <foobarry> stuff that.
[10:49] <foobarry> ircnet+freenode is enough for me
[10:50] <foobarry> i lost ops on my ## chan and there's a lurker who never goes away
[10:50] <foobarry> so i can't regain ops
[11:27] <salmantino> hello you all
[11:28] <davmor2> salmantino: hello
[11:29] <davmor2> christel: how could they not like you :)
[11:29] <salmantino> One possible cliente told me that he is thinking that one of their employees is giving industry secrets using a chat
[11:30] <salmantino> I was thing using whireshark for captring traffic
[11:30] <salmantino> but I will need to manage big cap files
[11:31] <salmantino> I wonder if someone knows a tool to captura only chat traffic
[11:31] <foobarry> what sort of chat
[11:32] <salmantino> he told me that saw an explorer windows with de skype logo
[11:32] <salmantino> so I think that probably is de webskype
[11:33] <salmantino> but of couser is not 100% sure
[11:33] <awilkins> Skype is encrypted
[11:33] <awilkins> Even if you can cap his streams, it just proves he had a big chat
[11:34] <salmantino> installing something in his computer is not possible?
[11:34] <foobarry> yes
[11:34] <foobarry> a keylogged
[11:34] <salmantino> or a man in the middle in the network?
[11:34] <foobarry> a keylogger
[11:35] <awilkins> Man in the middle will only work for things like XMPP over SSL
[11:35] <foobarry> physical device to sit between kayboard and pc
[11:35] <MattJ> XMPP \o/
[11:35] <foobarry> but u will need highest approval for that kind of activity
[11:35] <davmor2> salmantino: just stick a video camera behind them
[11:35] <awilkins> foobarry, Keylogger isn't useful if he's cutting and pasting industry secrets
[11:35] <christel> how very ethical of the employer
[11:36]  * awilkins has an employer that feeds all our VoIP calls through a SIGINT program
[11:36] <foobarry> https://www.keelog.com/
[11:36] <davmor2> keylogger isn't useful if he talks about it on skype
[11:36] <foobarry> yes it is
[11:36] <foobarry> ah "talks"
[11:36] <foobarry> voice call or typing?
[11:36] <awilkins> Keylogger doesn't help for cut & paste
[11:36] <salmantino> I thing that is typing
[11:37] <awilkins> All you'd cap is "ctrl-C"  ... "ctrl-V"
[11:37] <salmantino> and sending files .... probably
[11:37] <foobarry> see the link, they have everything u need
[11:37] <awilkins> Something that periodically caps screenshots may be useful
[11:37] <foobarry> they do that too
[11:37] <awilkins> Like that VideoGhost thing
[11:38] <foobarry> skype chats are saved on the pc
[11:38] <foobarry> are u sure they deleted them?
[11:39] <salmantino> I write down VideoGhost, because probably it permit to know what is the way used
[11:40] <foobarry> do check his skype chat logs though
[11:40] <salmantino> a skype client is not used. I think that probably is the webskype used for hotmail (outlook)
[11:50] <salmantino> http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows/outlook/use-skype-in-outlook
[11:50] <salmantino> this is the skype client that I think that could be used
[12:18] <directhex> is anyone interested in buying my old gaming pc, minus graphics card, at a knock-down price?
[12:28] <popey> possibly
[12:28] <popey> wot is it?
[12:37] <nickkkkkk_> hi anybody here to help?
[12:38] <nickkkkkk_> im getting an error saying couldnt open input file, no such file or directory
[12:38] <nickkkkkk_> how do i fix this ?
[12:38] <nickkkkkk_> it wont let me scalpel the file
[12:46] <BigRedS> what is "it"; what file is it trying to open? I think we' need some context in order to be useful
[12:51] <foobarry> so i received £25 premium bond "winnings"
[12:52] <foobarry> except its not me but the dead guy who used to live here
[12:52] <foobarry> need to phone them up
[12:52] <foobarry> family might like to cash in £500+
[13:18] <Azelphur> lmfao that was hilarious
[13:19] <Azelphur> I just tried to get on a national express coach with an email ticket, I put it on my watch because I like showing off my gadgetry, the ticket number was clearly displayed but the driver was saying he couldn't see it so I pulled it up on my phone
[13:19] <Azelphur> he then told me "You've committed forgery by doing that, you've copied your ticket"
[13:19] <Azelphur> I'm like uhh...it's an email...if I open it on my laptop and my tablet does that mean I have 4 tickets?
[13:20] <Azelphur> he said yes, then went quiet for a minute, then told me to "Just get on" hahaha
[13:21] <Azelphur> you wouldn't pirate a coach ticket, I guess.
[13:22] <diplo> I don't know, I know of people who try it with train tickets
[13:23] <Azelphur> diplo, and it'd never work because they are supposed to check the ticket number
[13:24] <diplo> It's the barcode on the back for getting out at stations
[13:24] <awilkins> Magstripe
[13:25] <awilkins> Never researched them but probably really simple to forge
[13:25] <Azelphur> ah
[13:25] <diplo> Supposedly the train one is the hardest hes tried
[13:25] <Azelphur> yea probably
[13:25] <awilkins> Even Oysters were very easy to forge last time I looked
[13:25] <diplo> He bought a writer off ebay and has cloned / created lots of things
[13:25] <diplo> But the train ones he can't decode
[13:25] <Azelphur> diplo, the national express ones should be impossible, they give you a unique ref and the driver is supposed to check it
[13:25] <awilkins> That was when they were using Mifare 1k though
[13:25] <Azelphur> although on this occasion he wasn't doing his job properly
[13:25] <awilkins> Mifare 1k uses weak-tea encryption
[13:26] <Azelphur> all he should need is the ticket number, which I had displayed front and center :)
[13:26] <diplo> He earns lots of money, so really saving money isn't the thing he just likes to try these things
[13:26] <diplo> inquisitive mind I guess
[13:26] <diplo> I for one wouldn't have the patience :D
[13:26] <awilkins> I used to work for a firm doing smartcards for loyalty cards, bus tickets, etc
[13:26] <Azelphur> diplo, I'm planning on doing the oysters one day
[13:26] <awilkins> And Mifare 1k were pretty weak even in those days (Pentium 4 era)
[13:26] <Azelphur> it'd be nice to have my phone emulate it
[13:27] <awilkins> I imagine throwing a decent GPU at them they'd break in a few minutes
[13:28] <awilkins> They have piddly tiny storage areas too ; we used to do things like use 6-bit integers packed on arbitrary bit boundaries to try and cram as many fields into the card as possible
[13:28]  * awilkins wrote VB6 code to pack n-bit structs on arbitrary boundaries and then hash them for a checksum and feels both proud and dirty
[13:30] <foobarry> nothing quite as annoying as a bluebottle in the room who won't fly out of the window
[13:30] <awilkins> Wikipedia says : Oyster was Mifare 1k Classic until Dec 2009 (very hackable)
[13:31] <awilkins> Now they are MIFARE DESFire EV1 : No idea how hackable
[13:31] <awilkins> ASsume they use Triple DES encryption which isn't awesome
[13:33] <davmor2> foobarry: swap the bluebottle for a wasp
[13:33] <foobarry> heh
[13:34] <awilkins> In something of a misnomer, MIFARE DESFire EV1 supports AES128
[13:41] <diddledan> morning
[13:45] <awilkins> Erm
[13:45]  * awilkins gestures at the clock
[14:00] <foobarry> thunder
[14:00] <foobarry> tv style
[14:00] <foobarry> yup, storm's a coming
[14:01] <Azelphur> foobarry, where you at? :)
[14:01] <Azelphur> hmm, I just turned on the air con in this coach, the aircon appears to be citrus flavoured.
[14:01] <Azelphur> ...weird
[14:02] <foobarry> n london
[14:02] <Azelphur> foobarry, cool, so I'm gonna get rained on :P
[14:02]  * Azelphur is on the coach at Canterbury, headed to London Victoria
[14:02] <foobarry> it was doing it in the bight too
[14:02] <foobarry> s/n/b
[14:02] <foobarry> meh
[14:02] <Azelphur> fun
[14:04] <diplo> We had awesome storms last night
[14:04] <diplo> Started about 7pm finished 4am ish
[14:04] <diplo> Thunder / lightning and lots of localised flooding :)
[14:04] <diplo> Friends dads house got struck by lightning
[14:05] <Azelphur> nothing eventful in the thanet area storm related :<
[14:05] <Azelphur> dam :o
[14:09] <Azelphur> I am so tempted to load the ticket up on my laptop and tablet
[14:09] <Azelphur> and do some kind of 4-device balancing act as I walk off the coach with the ticket loaded on all 4 devices
[14:10] <Azelphur> but the practicality of doing that while carrying 2 bags would be prohibitive :<
[14:31] <foobarry> how do extract folders from a tar that are called Keep!23
[14:31] <foobarry> Keep!24, etc
[14:31] <foobarry> have resorted to gui
[14:32] <foobarry> tar xvfz all.tar.gz Keep\!* doesn't work
[14:33] <foobarry> "tar: use --wildcards to enable pattern matching,"
[14:33] <foobarry> ah
[14:35] <foobarry> nope
[14:46] <diddledan> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2014/09/netflix-linux-html5-nss-change-request
[16:15] <dubfej> hi. my monitor has a shadow in the shape of a triangle at the bottom of the monitor. it's not there at bootup, it appears at some point after the desktop loads. sometimes half of the screen "shadows up" as well. any ideas what it could be? the shadows seem to come and go as they please
[16:54] <directhex> is anyone interested in buying my old gaming pc, minus graphics card, at a knock-down price?
[16:55] <foobarry> nah, don't do desktops any more
[17:01] <popey> 13:28:34 < popey> possibly
[17:01] <popey> 13:28:41 < popey> wot is it?
[17:26] <awilkins> popey, Ooh, Netflix Native
[17:26] <awilkins> popey, I presume this will use squillions fewer CPU cycles
[17:37] <davmor2> awilkins: or squillions more
[17:38] <dutchie> or possibly the same amount!


[00:39] <wxl> any reason why we all aren't using the ubuntu on air account so all of the uos videos can be aggregated?
[00:48] <popey> wxl: multiple people logging into the same G+ account from different countries triggers the google alerts
[00:49] <wxl> popey: bummer. is anyone working to try to aggregate all the videos into a playlist or something?
[00:56] <popey> wxl: we can fairly easily do that, we usually do after each uos
[00:56] <popey> we can just extract all the youtube urls from the database
[00:57] <wxl> popey: ah ok, cool.
[00:58] <wxl> i'm sure that will get posted to community-announce?
[00:59] <popey> we can do, yes
[09:12] <czajkowski> aloha
[13:11] <jose> dholbach: hey, mind sharing that doc to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>please?
[13:12] <dholbach> jose, done
[13:12] <jose> dholbach: thanks! \o/
[13:12] <dholbach> anytime :)
[13:46] <dholbach> I'll spam the internets about the start of day3
[13:48] <dholbach> oh, looks like dpm already did
[13:48] <dpm> dholbach, I sent it about 20 mins ago, perhaps it wouldn't hurt to do it again ~5 mins before the start
[15:28] <dholbach> dpm, as I said a few days ago: I won't be able to make it to the last session today, but it's nothing where I absolutely need to be there
[15:28] <dholbach> dpm, so I'll just make sure all the blueprints are updated and the summaries are written
[15:31] <dpm> dholbach, yeah, we talked about it already, no worries
[15:31] <belkinsa> mhall119, I forgot to tell you that making a mailing list for the track leads was an awesome idea.
[15:31] <dpm> +1
[15:58] <mhall119> belkinsa: yeah, I have no idea why I didn't think to do that before, it seems to obvious now
[16:56] <dholbach> dpm, popey, balloons, mhall119: now is probably a good time to fill in the blanks on the summaries page :-)
[16:56] <dpm> dholbach, indeed :)
[16:56] <popey> yeah
[16:56] <popey> that was my intention :D
[16:57] <dholbach> dpm, do the summaries of the community track largely make sense?
[16:58] <belkinsa> Can I also have access to the summaries doc too, as I'm a lead also?
[16:58] <dholbach> belkinsa, can you PM me the email address to share it with?
[16:58] <dholbach> belkinsa, because I shared it with you already, but I'm happy to re-share
[16:59] <belkinsa> Okay, I will check
[16:59] <dpm> belkinsa, you should have received an e-mail
[17:00] <dholbach> belkinsa, just PM me your email address and I'll re-share :)
[17:00] <belkinsa> I know, but I can see the doc now
[17:00] <dholbach> ahhh, great :)
[17:00] <dpm> balloons, are you doing the summary for the users track, I guess?
[17:00] <popey> dholbach: uh, there's loads of stuff in the app-dev track section that I wasn't in
[17:00] <dholbach> popey, I wrote everything I participated in
[17:01] <popey> dholbach: no, not what I'm saying
[17:01] <popey> it says "presenter: alan pope"
[17:01] <dpm> mhall119, do you know who is doing the cloud and developent track summaries?
[17:01] <popey> then a load of stuff I don't know about
[17:01] <dholbach> popey, that's what I meant
[17:01] <popey> I can certainly write up what I do know, but I'm not about to talk about SDK stuff... will tim present that?
[17:01] <dholbach> popey, he could write up a short summary
[17:02] <dholbach> it's just 2-3 sentences about the outcomes of a session
[17:02] <dpm> popey, generally there is only one track lead at the end of the session. None of the track leads have been to all sessions, that's why we ask everyone else to write the summaries for them
[17:02] <dholbach> popey, I'll make dpm read out a lot of funny things too, so don't worry
[17:02] <dpm> popey, mhall119, not sure who of you two wants to do the final summary
[17:02]  * dpm hugs dholbach
[17:03] <dpm> the thing with the summaries is that there's generally way too much detail
[17:03] <mhall119> popey: you want me to do it? i know it's late in the day for you
[17:03]  * dholbach hugs dpm back
[17:03] <silverlion> o/
[17:04]  * popey types stuff into the box
[17:06] <balloons> dpm, yep I'l do users
[17:06] <dpm> awesome
[17:06] <balloons> yes I would concur with dpm on length.. short and sweet, don't talk about every session in length
[17:15] <belkinsa> Who ever is the owner of the summaries doc, I sent an request via my<EMAIL_ADDRESS>e-mail to edit
[17:16] <dholbach> belkinsa, shared
[17:33] <dpm> balloons, could you add a few words to the "Improving manual testing" session on the community track summary doc?
[17:37] <popey> dpm: you running the reminders session?
[17:37] <dpm> popey, yep
[17:37] <popey> kk
[17:38] <popey> ok, put notes in the doc for all the sessions I was in, kept it brief.
[17:38] <popey> mhall119: are you sure? Would be great to get away from the keyboard for a bit.
[17:39] <belkinsa> Pardon for me for only having notes for one session.  I was at others but I didn't take any notes.
[17:39] <belkinsa> Shame on me.
[17:39] <belkinsa> :)
[17:40] <mhall119> popey: sure, you've earned it :)
[17:41] <popey> thanks.
[17:41] <popey> belkinsa: adding a line to the ubuntu women session
[17:42] <belkinsa> Okay
[17:42] <belkinsa> I don't mind, I just copied it from the blog post
[17:42] <popey> kk
[17:43] <belkinsa> Fixed that line a bit
[17:49] <mhall119> balloons: are you doing the Users track summary?
[17:51] <dholbach> all rightie, need to rush to the concert - have a great end of UOS and a great weekend!
[17:51] <belkinsa> dholbach, have fun!
[17:51]  * belkinsa hugs dholbach
[17:51] <dholbach> thanks belkinsa
[17:51]  * dholbach hugs you all back :)
[17:52] <mhall119> dpm: are you doing the community track summary?
[17:52] <dpm> mhall119, yep
[17:52] <mhall119> cool
[17:52] <balloons> mhall119, yes I am
[17:52] <dpm> mhall119, I've put the presenters in the doc. We still need to get confirmation from gaughen for Cloud. She says she's got a conflicting meeting
[17:53] <mhall119> gaughen has confirmed
[17:53] <dpm> balloons, not sure if you saw the ping earlier - can you add a few words to the Improving manual testing session on the summary doc?
[17:53] <mhall119> but she needs to go first
[17:54] <mhall119> is will confirmed?
[17:54] <balloons> dpm, sure
[17:54] <dpm> cool, thanks!
[17:54] <dpm> mhall119, yes, will is confirmed
[17:54] <mhall119> great, we're all set then
[18:31] <jono> mhall119, FYI: http://www.jonobacon.org/2014/11/14/ubuntu-governance-reboot/
[18:33] <mhall119> jono: will read after uos
[18:33] <jono> mhall119,  no worries :-)
[18:33] <jono> just wanted to give you a heads up, there may be some chatter
[18:33] <pleia2> ouch
[18:33] <jono> it is designed to kick off a constructive discussion about leadership
[18:33] <jono> pleia2, ouch?
[18:34] <pleia2> the CC has been working to be proactive for over a year now, every meeting we have at least 2 check ins with teams
[18:34] <pleia2> it's uncovered a lot of issues, we've been able to follow up on a lot now that we check in with them every cycle
[18:34] <pleia2> that's not reactive
[18:34] <jono> pleia2, that is awesome, but it is again maintenance
[18:35] <pleia2> I welcome suggestions for improvements, but a broad "you're just being reactive" is pretty unfair
[18:35] <jono> I am referring to inspirational leadership and forging new directions
[18:35] <jono> brb
[18:35] <mhall119> pleia2: I hope you're not arguing with jono while you should be relaxing by a pool somewhere
[18:35] <pleia2> the board have no power to be inspirational and forging new directions, Canonical does
[18:35] <mhall119> or by a fireplace, depending on where you are
[18:35] <pleia2> s/board/boards
[18:35] <pleia2> mhall119: I missed my flight :(
[18:35] <pleia2> flying out tonight instead
[18:35] <mhall119> ah, right, I saw that, that sucks
[18:36] <pleia2> anyway, I actually do have better things to do than being blindsided by a blog post :) so back to that
[18:39] <pleia2> jono: and also, I encourage you to start a thread on our community list if you want to talk about this: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/Ubuntu-community-team
[18:44] <jono> pleia2, I would hardly call this blindsiding, I am sharing feedback and perspective
[18:45] <jono> I am not asking people to agree with me
[18:45] <jono> and the goal of this is to start a conversation
[18:47]  * elfy wonders why you weren't able to start the discussion when you were part of the 'issue'
[18:47] <jono> elfy, I have shared this viewpoint before
[18:48] <jono> but to be honest, I was so busy with other things I didn't have time to really dig into it
[18:48] <jono> and I was also, I think, biased
[18:48] <jono> I saw things through rose-colored lenses
[18:48] <jono> now I have been out of Canonical for a little bit I see things a little differently
[18:50] <elfy> that just sounds rather convenient to me I'm afraid
[18:50] <jono> elfy, convenient?
[18:50] <elfy> wait until you're not able to actually do anything about 'issue' and then use your position to shout it out
[18:51] <jono> who says I am not able to do anything about it?
[18:51] <elfy> obviously that's your prerogative
[18:51] <jono> I am a community member
[18:51] <jono> and a core value in Ubuntu is sharing ideas and perspectives
[18:51] <jono> this is precisely what I am doing
[18:52] <jono> and I am happy to participate in helping to craft a new charter
[18:52] <pleia2> jono: we use mailing lists, irc meetings and Hangouts for discussions, a blog post is a proclaimation that puts us on uneven ground and doesn't provide a proper mechanism for discussion, you offered no "let's talk about this $other-place" or anything, just your judgements
[18:52] <jono> and engage in the discussion
[18:52] <jono> pleia2, as I said, this is designed to kickstart a discussion, I think identifying a place to discuss it makes perfect sense
[18:52] <pleia2> I'm not going to have this discussion on a personal blog
[18:52] <jono> fine, then lets have it somewhere else
[18:52] <pleia2> so please, use one of the mechanisms we have in place for this kind of thing
[18:53] <jono> wow, I am surprised how defensive a tone there is here
[18:53] <belkinsa> Welcome back pleia2!
[18:54] <pleia2> belkinsa: thanks :) my flight leaves in a few hours for a proper vacation so hopefully I'm not here for long!
[18:54] <silverlion> jono : do you mind an outside view?
[18:54] <jono> silverlion, I welcome it! :-)
[18:54] <belkinsa> pleia2, the Ubuntu Women is set for this cycle
[18:54] <pleia2> belkinsa: glad to hear it!
[18:55] <silverlion> I'm quite a new member to the community here but I've been following your work as a community manager very closely
[18:55] <belkinsa> It's blogged but not e-mailed the list
[18:55] <silverlion> and I get it that you've done quite a lot for the community so nothing to say against that
[18:55] <jono> btw, I am going to start a discussion on ubuntu-community-team and link it from my blog post, as pleia2  suggests
[18:55] <pleia2> jono: I don't have a problem with this discussion, I think it's a good and healthy one to have, just the way you've gone about it is very confrontational
[18:56] <dpm> mhall119, are you setting up the ubuntuonair hangout, or shall I?
[18:56] <pleia2> jono: thanks
[18:56] <belkinsa> And one
[18:56] <silverlion> but after reading your blog twice (to understand it in my native language) I must say that I can understand both position... yours and "the other side"
[18:56] <silverlion> pleia2 : +1 from me for that
[18:56] <jono> pleia2, how is it confrontational? I shared a viewpoint on my blog, which appears on Planet Ubuntu, I made it *very clear* I respect the efforts of our council members (I made that point twice) and made it clear that this focused on the *charter*
[18:57] <jono> silverlion, I think there are always two sides, and I don't even think this is about sides
[18:57]  * balloons finishes jono's post and finds others already on it in here!
[18:57] <jono> it is about having a conversation about a better future
[18:57] <dpm> mhall119, ok, I'll start it
[18:57] <mhall119> dpm: can you? I just got off the last session
[18:57] <jono> we just need to decide what that future looks like
[18:57] <mhall119> thanks man
[18:57] <silverlion> jono : that's why I've put it in "
[18:57] <jono> silverlion, :-)
[18:58] <silverlion> jono : I totally agree with you that the community should adapt the presence and even look in the future to be preped
[18:58] <silverlion> but forgive me my words but I would have been pissed off too when I was part of a council
[18:59] <silverlion> but to get this to an end: can we agree that the subject is needed but the timing and "how to" got wrong?
[18:59] <silverlion> I mean we all agreed to have a discussion here on IRC or on hangout. that's what jono wanted
[18:59] <silverlion> nuff said from my pov
[19:01] <jono> pleia2, discussion started, blog updated
[19:03] <pleia2> thank you
[19:04] <jono> np
[19:06] <jono> silverlion, yep
[19:08] <silverlion> jono : once again it was not my intention to offend hope you did not get that one wrong ;)
[19:09] <jono> silverlion, not offended at all! :-)
[19:09] <jono> and remember, I may well be wrong on some of this stuff
[19:09] <popey> NO WAY!
[19:09] <popey> :D
[19:09] <jono> my goal here is not to say "I am right", make it happen, just to share a perspective to start a discussion
[19:09] <jono> popey, it rarely happens :-)
[19:18] <balloons> ^^ keyword here is rarely
[19:18] <balloons> :p
[19:48] <jono> balloons, :-)


  Not tonight. Tomorrow. 😊
[20:58] <tsimonq2> No worries @RikMills, let me know.


[05:33] <tsimonq2> _doko: debmirror> Correct, it's been on my list. I appreciate the ping.
[09:31] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted meta-ocaml [amd64] (mantic-proposed) [<IP_ADDRESS>]
[10:25] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: dynarmic [amd64] (mantic-proposed/universe) [6.5.0+ds-1] (no packageset)
[10:32] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: dynarmic [arm64] (mantic-proposed/universe) [6.5.0+ds-1] (no packageset)
[18:13] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted horizon [source] (lunar-proposed) [4:23.2.0-0ubuntu1]
[19:08] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted horizon [source] (jammy-proposed) [4:22.1.1-0ubuntu1]
[20:32] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New source: qprompt (mantic-proposed/primary) [1.1.6-0ubuntu1]


[09:17] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[11:51] <Espreon> brobostigon: Good morning.
[11:51] <Espreon> And how are you today?
[11:52] <brobostigon> Espreon: good afternoon, not bad, alittle warm, some bad eczema patches on my legs. and you?
[11:52] <Espreon> Oh, now it's afternoon? Blargh.
[11:52] <Espreon> A bit meh.
[11:53] <brobostigon> :(
[11:53] <Espreon> I left a channel 'cause I hate being around people who besmear the Germanic language family.
[11:53] <Espreon> By his criteria, he'd probably besmear the Celtic family too.
[11:53] <brobostigon> ah
[12:08] <Espreon> And now to go to bed.
[12:08] <Espreon> Let's hope I wake up in time to read a thirty-page article so I can do homework.
[12:08] <Espreon> brobostigon: Good "night"
[21:55] <brobostigon> nos da everyone, sleep well.


[09:08] <mup> PR snapd#11589 closed: o/snapstate: allow install of unasserted gadget/kernel on dangerous models <Needs Samuele review> <Created by kubiko> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/11589>
[09:18] <mup> PR snapd#11665 closed: cmd/snap-confine: be compatible with a snap rootfs built as a tmpfs <Needs Samuele review> <Created by mardy> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/11665>
[09:28] <mup> PR snapd#11930 closed: tests: fix snap-network-erros on uc16 <Squash-merge> <Simple 😃> <Created by sergiocazzolato> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/11930>
[10:03] <mup> PR snapd#11932 closed: tests: force version 2.48.3 on xenial ESM <Created by mvo5> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/11932>
[11:29] <mup> PR snapcraft#3823 closed: Add 'groups' statement to parts <Created by sergio-costas> <Closed by sergio-costas> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/3823>
[16:52] <p9> Are /mnt/* mountpoints available to snaps? From what I've read they should be but I'm still getting Permission denied on access
[17:33] <ogra> p9, through the removable-media interface ... your snap needs to have the plug for it defined and yu need to use "snap connect ..." to conect it ... that will give access to everything under /mnt and /media
[17:36] <ogra> p9, also note that snap interfaces do not change any permissions ... if your user has no access permissions to a directory or file, the interface will not change that
[17:36] <p9> ogra: thanks, connecting it did help. I thought I had it connected as I was able to access udisks-mounted stuff in /media
[17:36] <ogra> (i.e. classic filesystem permissions still apply ... users often forget that)
[17:37] <ogra> cool !


[08:08] <Chipaca> mo'in all
[08:09] <bthomas> morning
 Chipaca or facubatista  in case bthomas comes back, it feels like he has it backwards. leader_settings_changed notifies *non* leaders that the settings have changed, leader_elected is telling the unit that they are now the leader
[08:22] <bthomas> Chipaca: Does leader_elected always follow leader_settings_changed or vice versa ?
[08:23] <Chipaca> bthomas: what does 'before' and 'after' mean when it's different units?
[08:23] <Chipaca> (nothing, that's what)
[08:23] <Chipaca> unless you have atomic clocks on the units
[08:23] <Chipaca> then we can talk
[08:24] <bthomas> Chipaca: wouldn't all unit receive the same events ? I do appreciate the problem with distributed clocks. However isn't there a single source of the firing of events - Juju .
[08:33] <Chipaca> bthomas: yes, but my point is there can be no ordering guarantee, so why do you care to ask?
[08:36] <bthomas> Chipaca: If there is a single source of events then the source gaurantees ordering . Suppose there is no ordering guarantee but there is the weaker gaurantee that a leader_elected is always assoicated with a leader_setting_changed. Then even with this weaker gaurantee it becomes hard to make a case on differentiating the use case for these two events. An ordering gaurantee actually helps differentiate the use case. Do I make se
[09:15] <oscar51> I have a question regarding juju's Operator framework
[09:18] <oscar51> does anyone know what exactly triggers "on.config_changed"?
[09:24] <Chipaca> oscar51: running 'juju config <app> <config>=<something>'
[09:25] <oscar51> I see
[09:25] <Chipaca> oscar51: why?
[09:26] <oscar51> I'm having trouble with one of our charms, on.config_changed keeps being called, causing downstream trouble. I'm trying to troubleshoot it
[09:27] <oscar51> but it helps to know that something is calling juju config
[09:27] <Chipaca> oscar51: https://discourse.juju.is/t/charm-hooks/1040#heading--config-changed
[09:27] <Chipaca> oscar51: there are 3 other situations in which it's triggered
[09:28] <Chipaca> oscar51: from your description, assuming you don't have something rogue doing 'juju config', your agent might be dieing a lot?
[09:29] <Chipaca> dying*
[09:29] <Chipaca> oscar51: what does debug-log show?
[09:30] <oscar51> thank you for those helpful pointers
[09:32] <Chipaca> oscar51: what is the charm in question?
[09:32] <oscar51> I'm using debug-log a lot, it's useful but does not reveal what is going on
[09:32] <oscar51> we have multiple custom charms. our stack is complex
[09:32] <Chipaca> oscar51: have you done 'juju model-config logging-config="<root>=DEBUG"'?
[09:32] <Chipaca> (to up the log level of most everything)
[09:33] <Chipaca> oscar51: is this on k8s?
[09:34] <oscar51> model-config is already set to debug:
[09:34] <oscar51> logging-config                model       <root>=DEBUG;unit=DEBUG
[09:34] <Chipaca> a'ight
[09:34] <oscar51> no, it's not on k8s.
[09:36] <Chipaca> oscar51: if it were the hook itself having issues i'd say try 'juju debug-code', but iiuc the issue is with whatever is triggering config-changed
[09:40] <Chipaca> oscar51: one other thing
[09:40] <oscar51> I see in debug-log that before entering "on.config_changed" juju prints: "Using local storage: /var/lib/juju/agents/unit-*****/charm/.unit-state.db already exists", do you think this might be a cause?
[09:40] <Chipaca> oscar51: your charm itself could be doing .on.config_changed.emit()
[09:41] <oscar51> good point
[09:41] <oscar51> something I'm going to check
[09:41] <Chipaca> oscar51: nah, that's correct for non-k8s
[09:42] <oscar51> I checked the charm code, and there are no emit() at all
[09:42] <Chipaca> oscar51: (on k8s you don't necessarily have non-ephemeral storage on the operator pod so state gets shipped back to the controller)
[09:43] <Chipaca> oscar51: good hunting, let me know what you find
[09:44] <Chipaca> if it turns out there's something we could log to make things easier we can do that
[09:44] <oscar51> I'm continuing to hunt this.. we need to resolve it :)
[10:27] <oscar51> Do you think this might trigger a config event in the operator framework:
[10:27] <oscar51> DEBUG juju.worker.uniter.remotestate update status timer triggered
[10:36] <oscar51> There is also this one:
[10:36] <oscar51> juju.worker.uniter.operation running operation run update-status hook
[10:51] <facubatista> ¡Muy buenos días a todos!
[10:54] <bthomas> नमस्ते facubatista
[10:55] <Chipaca> oscar51: no, that's the update-status event that happens periodically, https://discourse.juju.is/t/charm-hooks/1040#heading--update-status
[10:55] <facubatista> hola bthomas
[10:56] <Chipaca> oscar51: (you can change the periodicity with e.g. «juju model-config update-status-hook-interval=1m»)
[10:56] <Chipaca> facubatista: 👋❗
[10:57] <facubatista> Chipaca, hola
[10:57] <oscar51> Chipaca: I see
[10:57] <Chipaca> oscar51: now, your charm could connect update_status to your config-changed handler
[10:58] <Chipaca> oscar51: i.e., e.g., self.framework.observe(self.on.update_status, self._config_changed)
[10:58] <Chipaca> oscar51: but that's on you :)
[10:58] <oscar51> Chipaca: I will look at the code if that happens
[11:00] <Chipaca> oscar51: but presumably you've observed something like 'juju.worker.uniter.remotestate got config change' in the logs also
[11:06] <oscar51> Chipaca: I appreciate your input. I'm still looking into code and logs
[11:07] <oscar51> I was hoping for something simple, like assigning the on.update to the config function ;)
[11:21] <facubatista> jam, 'juju show-status-log' is not really what we want... it just shows the past changes (no "follow"), and you need to run it in a separate terminal (no mixed lines with the rest of the logs)
[11:22] <facubatista> jam, what would be more like the users are doing would be something like "juju debug-log --show-status-changes", for example
[11:22] <facubatista> jam, do you think an option like this would be something feasible for juju to implement?
[12:06] <oscar51> I see these in debug-log, does it mean that the charm is restarted?: DEBUG juju.worker.uniter.runner starting jujuc server  {unix @/var/lib/juju/agents/unit-****-***/agent.socket <nil>}
[12:09] <oscar51> And after that line comes this one: Operator Framework 0.9.0 up and running.
[12:26] <Chipaca> oscar51: the charm isn't a long-lived thing, it runs once per event
[12:27] <Chipaca> oscar51: so you should se ethe "Operator Framework X.Y.Z up and running" once per event
[12:27] <Chipaca> oscar51: the 'starting jujuc server', I don't know, I'd have to ask somebody with more juju juju
[12:27] <oscar51> Chipaca: okay, thanks
[12:27] <Chipaca> maybe jam is around?
[12:31] <oscar51> is there some way to know what config changed when on.config_changed is called?
[12:36] <Chipaca> oscar51: maybe setting unit=TRACE ?
[12:36] <Chipaca> (i don't know but i'd try that)
[12:36] <oscar51> for debug-log?
[12:37] <Chipaca> oscar51: i mean, juju model-config logging-config="<root>=DEBUG;unit=TRACE"
[12:37] <Chipaca> oscar51: and then debug-log yes
[12:45] <oscar51> running that command required admin access to the controller, so I did it using what was described here: https://juju.is/docs/logs
[12:52] <oscar51> it didn't reveal anything. what is the purpose of the 'event' argument in the events (talking about the Python package used to write charms)
[12:53] <oscar51> it has the type ops.charm.ConfigChangedEvent, can it be used to figure out what config has changed?
[12:56] <Chipaca> oscar51: not in the event itself, but you can grab the whole config and print it out
[12:56] <jam> Chipaca, oscar51 : when running a hook, we spin up a worker to respond to the events from the charm, it is expected, and is DEBUG for a reason, since you shouldn't typically care
[12:57] <Chipaca> jam: oscar51 is seeing config-changed again and again
[12:58] <jam> oscar51, Chipaca my guess is something in the framework is calling event.defer() so the framework emits it again before the next hook
[12:58] <oscar51> jam: what does event.defer() do?
[12:58] <oscar51> I saw a defer in the code
[12:58] <Chipaca> jam: queues the event for processing later
[12:58] <Chipaca> er
[12:59] <Chipaca> oscar51: ^
[12:59] <Chipaca> oscar51: so the next time you get e.g. update-status, first you'd handle the defered event
[12:59] <Chipaca> i should've known to ask this already :-/ thanks jam :)
[13:01] <oscar51> hmm. not sure defer is the problem but I will check the code
[13:04] <jam> its pretty easy to end up with an infinite defer() loop if the precondition to why you might want to defer never changes. but defer() in config-changed is almost never what you want
[13:04] <oscar51> there is a event.defer() at the end of on_config_changed, do you think it might be the cause?
[13:04] <jam> because you aren't waiting for the same config again, you are waiting for the *next* config-changed with new config
[13:05] <jam> oscar51, that will tell the framework that it should emit on.config_changed before the next hook, and since it defers at the end of the function, it will be queued before the next event as well
[13:05] <oscar51> sounds like it might be the cause. I really wonder why it was typed there in the first place
[13:09] <Chipaca> oscar51: in particular for config-changed, it's almost certainly a bug
[13:10] <Chipaca> and if it's unconditional at the end of a handler, it's also a bug
[13:10] <oscar51> I'm testing out the updated code right now
[13:13] <oscar51> it looks like it was solved, but
[13:14] <oscar51> thanks chipaca and jam for your help
[13:14] <oscar51> very much appreciated
[13:14] <Chipaca> methinks we shold log "defering this event" and "running this event because it was defered"
[13:14] <jam> Chipaca, if we don't, we definitely should, but I thought there were messages around that
[13:15] <Chipaca> i don't think there are
[13:15] <Chipaca> i think we talked about doing it but didn't
[13:15] <Chipaca> i'll file a bug
[13:17] <Chipaca> #404
[13:17] <mup> Issue #404: log event deferral and re-emission <Created by chipaca> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/issues/404>
[13:17] <mup> Issue operator#404 opened: log event deferral and re-emission <Created by chipaca> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/issues/404>
[13:18] <jam> Chipaca, ah, it is not trivial because *new* events are "record this event, reemit()" vs running deferred events are reemit()
[13:18] <Chipaca> yep
[13:18] <Chipaca> should still be doable :)
[13:18] <jam> Chipaca, I think we could watch for "single_event_path is not None"
[13:20] <Chipaca> jam: looks like that will work yes
[13:27] <facubatista> Chipaca, it looks your timing comparations are flaky
[13:27] <facubatista> >               assert p1.stat().st_mtime == p2.stat().st_mtime
[13:27] <facubatista> E               assert<PHONE_NUMBER>.0 ==<PHONE_NUMBER>.6792173
[13:27] <facubatista> https://travis-ci.org/github/canonical/charmcraft/jobs/727674829
[13:27] <Chipaca> aha!
[13:27] <facubatista> my branch failed only for py 3.5 and py 3.7 in arm (amd64 both ok)
[13:28] <Chipaca> looks like it use utime instead of utimensat
[13:28] <Chipaca> silly copy2
[13:28] <Chipaca> facubatista: i can fix in a bit
[13:28] <facubatista> Chipaca, thanks
[13:28] <Chipaca> facubatista: but you should be able to retry for it to pass for now
[13:29] <facubatista> Chipaca, I still miss a review there, so no rush
[13:29] <facubatista> (actually, I'm two approves behind, so...)
[13:29] <Chipaca> facubatista: I'd change that test to be |p1-p2| < 1
[13:30] <facubatista> Chipaca, you have a pytest.approx()
[13:30]  * Chipaca checks his pockets
[13:30] <Chipaca> no, i probably left it on the piano
[13:48] <Chipaca> facubatista: what would be a good __str__ for EventBase?
[13:49] <Chipaca> feels like a generic <EventFoo at 0xDEADBEEF> works
[13:49] <Chipaca> or maybe <EventFoo via eventhandle>
[13:56] <facubatista> the type of event for sure, don't know if there's some internal info that could surface
[13:56] <facubatista> the id() of it doesn't make sense, right? as we would not have N of those, and if we defer() it later it will have another id
[13:57] <Chipaca> yeh
[13:57] <Chipaca> eventhandle probably is the best shot
[13:57] <Chipaca> deploying some charms now to get a handle on what that looks like irl
[14:57]  * facubatista -> early lunch before afternoon's meetings storm
[15:05] <axino> hi
[15:06] <axino> is there an easy way to test running a hook with some data in StoredState() ?
[15:12] <bthomas> axino: Not sure what you are asking. But you can always assign a key with an integer counter to your charms instance of StoredState. Then on each update_status hook set ActiveStatus with the message being the value of the counter from stored state and incrementing the counter in stored state. This way you will see that counter increasing in jujus show-status . I have not tried this.
[15:16] <Chipaca> axino: harness.charm._stored.foo = 42 should dtrt?
[15:17] <deej> Chipaca: I suspect he's looking for something like what i was asking for a couple weeks back, a good way to bulk set state
[15:17] <deej> Ala what you can do with config
[15:27] <bthomas> Chipaca, jam facubatista : Q4) Why does one need relation_depated hook/event ? Current docs say that relation departed is "to give the charm an opportunity to clean up any optimistically-generated configuration." But it is not clear what optimistically generated configuration is.
[15:28] <jam> bthomas, several reasons. Wordpress is using Postgresql as its storage, wordpress is going away, Postgresql needs to know that it can delete those dbs.
[15:28] <jam> bthomas, Cassandra cluster was scaled up to 7 nodes, it is being scaled down to 5
[15:29] <jam> cassandra 0-5 need to know that 6/7 are going away, and should no longer be used as part of the cluster.
[15:29] <Chipaca> cassandra going away parties are *wild*
[15:29] <bthomas> jam : but there is relation depated and relation broken. Sorry I pasted the explanation for relation broken as relation departed. Never the less I am unclear as to why both are required. BTW standup now
[15:30] <jam> bthomas, I have a different meeting now, so won't be there.
[15:30] <bthomas> no worries will catcup with you later
[15:30] <jam> departed is per unit
[15:30] <jam> broken is the overall relation to the application
[15:30] <bthomas> ok thank you
[15:31] <bthomas> will think a bit more about this.
[15:31]  * facubatista is back
[15:46] <mup> Issue operator#405 opened: Harness begin_with_initial_hooks() fails when no relations added <Created by zzehring> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/issues/405>
[17:19] <mup> PR operator#406 opened: Add empty list as default return if no relation ids in map <Created by zzehring> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/406>
[18:36] <mup> Issue operator#405 closed: Harness begin_with_initial_hooks() fails when no relations added <Created by zzehring> <Closed by chipaca> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/issues/405>
[18:36] <mup> PR operator#406 closed: Add empty list as default return if no relation ids in map <Created by zzehring> <Merged by chipaca> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/406>
[20:12] <mup> Issue operator#407 opened: Have a quick "what you should look for" as packaging docs <Created by jameinel> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/issues/407>