[02:43] <darkmatter> troy_s, check this out http://clutter-project.org/
[02:44] <darkmatter> could be a dream come true with the proper love
[02:48] <troy_s> darkmatter: I wonder if it the GL does software emulation when accell not present
[02:49] <darkmatter> hmm
[02:49] <darkmatter> good question
[02:49] <troy_s> I just don't think anything will hold until an abstraction layer is provided.
[02:51] <darkmatter> OpenGL ES & EGL support. This was an original goal for Clutter and this is one of the reasons the GL usage has been keep pretty simple. GL ES Support has already been roughly prototyped in the backends branch and youll notice internal math in Clutter is fixed point based (GL ES type platforms typically lack an FPU) ready for this. This work will also bring stage abstraction meaning we can run over other GL implementat
[02:51] <darkmatter> ions other than GLX and a GL/GL ES abstraction layer.
[02:52] <darkmatter> sorry bout the paste if its a bit long
[02:52] <darkmatter> but looks like they're working on it
[02:56] <troy_s> well that's great news
[02:57] <darkmatter> I'm thinking of the potential for mindshare application... collaboration suites, etc
[02:57] <darkmatter> could be really nice
[02:58] <darkmatter> or adding some 'wow' factor to the gnome games ;)
[03:05] <troy_s> darkmatter: It would be REALLY nice if everyone would work on ONE bloody interface :)
[03:05] <troy_s> GNOME/KDE/this/that/otehr isn't really helping out the consistency factor -- either make the interfaces a HIGHER level abstraction or use the same bloody libs
[03:06] <darkmatter> true
[03:07] <darkmatter> I'm thinking something like clutter would make a great extension... build it into any app that it would be of use for... pass some nice arg to see if the system is accelled..
[04:51] <stochastic> hi, I'm in the process of editing an icon set for gnome and I was wondering if anyone knew where the general text icon is
[04:51] <stochastic> to be more specific, the one I'm looking for is the icon that is given in Nautilus when you're looking at a text file
[04:52] <stochastic> the default icon usually has a small preview of the first few lines of the text file, I'd like to keep that, but change the border of the icon
[04:52] <stochastic> any ideas?
[05:06] <troy_s> stochastic: ?
[05:07] <troy_s> your best bet is to look through either tango/tangerine/gnome sets and find the icon
[05:07] <stochastic> I was looking but couldn't find anything
[05:07] <troy_s> once you have matched the naming syntax, it is pretty simple to do your adjustments.
[05:07] <troy_s> what icon is it?
[05:07] <troy_s> are you talking about the m
[05:07] <troy_s> mime types?
[05:07] <troy_s> as in the default icon for data types?
[05:08] <stochastic> I think it would be a mime type
[05:08] <stochastic> to recreate the icon I'm talking about, open a gedit and save a simple text file such as "Hello World!"
[05:08] <troy_s> methinks that is passed off to the thumbnailing tool
[05:08] <troy_s> yeah and you get 'Hello world' in the icon thumbnail correct?
[05:09] <stochastic> yeah
[05:09] <troy_s> plain text inside of a little icon
[05:09] <troy_s> yeah that's handled by the thumbnailers.
[05:09] <stochastic> where can I find info on themes for those?
[05:10] <stochastic> there has to be a way to change the basic background of that thumbnail right?
[05:10] <troy_s> well they aren't 'themes' per se
[05:10] <stochastic> ok, well forget that I used the word theme
[05:11] <troy_s> methinks that is based on the thumbnailing application
[05:11] <troy_s> as in it draws the thing itself
[05:11] <troy_s> at least most thumbnailers are responsible for that sort of thing
[05:12] <stochastic> hmm but there's a little dotted border around it that matches the icons in the human mime-type icon set
[05:12] <troy_s> ?
[05:13] <stochastic> I'll do some research on thumbnails
[05:13] <troy_s> yeah... i honestly don't know exactly what icon it will pull to set into
[05:13] <troy_s> it LOOKS like
[05:14] <troy_s> it is pulling from /usr/share/icons/gnome/scalable/mimetypes/text-x-preview.svg
[05:14] <troy_s> you might want to start there.
[05:14] <troy_s> and try dicking with that.
[05:14] <stochastic> thanks
[05:14] <stochastic> I'll see what I can do
[05:19] <troy_s> stochastic: Pretty sure that if THAT isn't the icon
[05:19] <troy_s> it is one of the smaller sized versions of it
[05:19] <troy_s> it certainly looks like it to me.
[05:24] <stochastic> hmm I notice that there's a text-x-preview.icon in that same folder
[05:25] <stochastic> how would that relate?
[06:35] <stochastic> does anyone have any hints on how to go about converting/tracing a png image into an svg?
[07:36] <yharrow> stochastic use inkscape
[07:37] <stochastic> yharrow, I attempted to open a png in inkscape and save it as an svg but it didn't seem to save properly
[07:37] <yharrow> Path >>Trace bitmap Shift+Alt+B
[07:38] <yharrow> open image, select image, trace bitmap
[07:38] <yharrow> choose color from the bottom menu if you want color
[07:39] <yharrow> the higher the number of scans, the more precise (and complicated) the image
[10:32] <lapo> good morning
[01:05] <nysosym> hi there
[04:10] <stochastic> Hey room, earlier I was talking to troy_s about the icon in Nautilus that has a text preview of text files on it
[04:11] <stochastic> he pointed me in the direction of /usr/share/icons/gnome/scalable/mimetypes/text-x-preview.svg and text-x-preview.icon
[04:12] <stochastic> I've attempted to modify these files but their changes have not taken affect do I need to reload the window manager or are these the wrong files
[04:14] <stochastic> when I run 'locate text-x-preview' it looks like gnome is the only theme on the system with that file but the look of my current icon is much more similar to the text-files that the Human theme has as a mimetype
[04:14] <stochastic> any ideas if there's any different similar icons?
[04:18] <andreasn> stochastic: it might be because you need to run icon-naming-utils on these files as nautilus does not look up the names from the fd.o icon-naming-specification
[04:18] <stochastic> ?
[04:19] <stochastic> that's a little over my head
[04:19] <stochastic> can you explain that?
[04:19] <andreasn> sure
[04:21] <andreasn> oh, crap, there is people coming over.
[04:21] <andreasn> can I get back to you?
[04:21] <stochastic> sure
[04:24] <andreasn> if you're in a hurry, someone in #tango can probably help you
[04:26] <stochastic> wait, I found what I was looking for, it's hiding in filesystems/gnome-fs-regular.png
[05:13] <nysosym> hi kwwii :)
[05:13] <kwwii> hi nysosym
[05:14] <nysosym> how are u? :)
[05:14] <kwwii> nysosym: good, but busy as usual :-)
[05:14] <kwwii> you?
[05:14] <nysosym> hehe, what are u doing?
[05:14] <kwwii> working on a kubuntu usplash atm
[05:14] <nysosym> good as usual ;)
[05:15] <nysosym> do u make the artwork for all ubuntu forks? O.o
[05:16] <kwwii> nysosym: well, kubuntu, ubuntu and edubuntu for now
[05:16] <nysosym> amazing! ;)
[05:17] <kwwii> well, it is more of a one time thing, I guess
[05:17] <kwwii> hopefully there will be others next time
[05:17] <nysosym> yes, but who? ^
[05:17] <nysosym> u make great artworks ;)
[05:19] <kwwii> I try to do my best, but one person doing all this work over a longer period of time is simply crazy
[05:20] <nysosym> yes agree, u said a new lead artist would be highered? They can define new people ;)
[05:21] <nysosym> -highered +employed :D
[05:24] <kwwii> yepp
[05:24] <nysosym> kwwii, when u finished your work in kubuntu, can i see some screenshots please? I wan't install kubuntu, with the only reason to see your artwork ;)
[05:25] <kwwii> hehe, sure
[05:25] <kwwii> for now I am working on the usplash though- so no screens of that
[05:25] <nysosym> thx :)
[05:25] <kwwii> as my vmware refuses to install linux
[05:26] <nysosym> yes i know the problems with vmware, i had them in edgy also... :-/
[05:26] <nysosym> but, when vmware doesn't work, how do u test your work?
[05:28] <kwwii> the hard way :-)
[05:28] <kwwii> my laptop slowly becomes messed up :p
[05:29] <kwwii> actually, I have two other test machines
[05:29] <nysosym> hehe, which sort of laptop do u have? :)
[05:32] <kwwii> I have a 17" powerbook and a new ibm x60s
[05:34] <nysosym> respect, the best of the best ;)
[05:35] <nysosym> hi klepas
[05:35] <kwwii> well, I have been working from home for a few years now, so it is really the only money I put into my office ;-)
[05:36] <nysosym> kwwii, good way, i only have a macbook and a selfmade desktop machine ^
[05:36] <kwwii> hehe, I have a machine I put together too...it is now one leg of a table
[05:37] <kwwii> and the last time I will do that :-)
[05:37] <nysosym> :)
[05:38] <nysosym> my next way will be, removing my actual desktop machine and buy a mac pro, but first with the release of leopard
[05:39] <kwwii> I always wait a few years after apple brings out new hardware to buy it
[05:40] <nysosym> because my actual desktop is a little bit to slow, for editing hd movies and raw files...
[05:41] <nysosym> kwwii, sure, but i can't wait a few years, i need in the next time a new "power" machine
[05:41] <nysosym> :D
[05:41] <kwwii> nysosym: yeah, I also have a desktop mac as well - it is great at editing video
[05:41] <klepas> hey nysosym
[05:43] <nysosym> kwwii, yes and i love final cut pro. I love ubuntu, but linux doesn't have so professional aplicatons
[05:43] <kwwii> nysosym: yeah, the oss linux video apps aren't quite there yet
[06:00] <nysosym> ok i will go to work now
[06:00] <nysosym> see u soon kwwii :)
[06:01] <nysosym> have a good work ;)
[06:03] <nysosym> cya
[06:11] <yharrow> hey can anyone here give me an opinion about some logos Id like to use for my team?
[06:12] <yharrow> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewYorkTeam/Logos
[06:18] <kwwii> logo1 looks the best to me
[06:18] <kwwii> after that 2a
[06:20] <yharrow> so if I wanted a logo without words 2a would be the best?
[06:21] <yharrow> see the thing is that II was told that a logo should not have words
[06:21] <yharrow> << kwwii
[06:25] <yharrow> have you ever heard of such a rule?
[06:33] <kwwii> yharrow: well, that is a pretty good rule, but this is a very specific logo
[06:33] <kwwii> 2a seems much more creative
[06:34] <yharrow> but is creativity the main factor hear?
[06:34] <yharrow> here
[06:34] <yharrow> ok
[06:37] <kwwii> well, branding-wise it is also simply better not to change the ubuntu logo ;-)
[06:44] <yharrow> what do you mean when you say not to change the logo?
[06:44] <yharrow> you mean that the team logo should have the ubuntu logo in it?
[07:49] <Hohlraum> omfg that face browser in FC7 is cool.  anyone know if they modified gdm to do any animation effects?


[19:01] <CIA-45> hw-detect: cjwatson * r1469 ubuntu/ (45 files in 4 dirs): merge from Debian 1.87
[19:06] <CIA-45> hw-detect: cjwatson * r1470 ubuntu/debian/po/ (lo.po si.po ug.po): msgmerge
[19:08] <CIA-45> hw-detect: cjwatson * r1471 ubuntu/debian/changelog: another merge detail
[19:09] <CIA-45> hw-detect: cjwatson * r1472 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 1.87ubuntu1
[19:14] <CIA-45> localechooser: cjwatson * r167 ubuntu/ (72 files in 3 dirs): merge from Debian 2.38
[19:17] <CIA-45> localechooser: cjwatson * r168 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 2.38ubuntu1
[22:19] <CIA-45> partman-crypto: cjwatson * r717 ubuntu/ (15 files in 3 dirs): merge from Debian 48
[22:33] <CIA-45> partman-crypto: cjwatson * r718 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 48ubuntu1
[22:40] <X220> hi, do you know why the windows installer WUBI hangs forever when you reach about 75 percent loading? I am using a windows 7 version as o.s.. Thanks
[23:02] <X220> never mind, now it is working after new installation


[08:21] <zigford> Hi everyone. Question about how snapd finds snap-secomp. Someone on here helped me a month or so ago with an issue on Gentoo. Gentoo have released an update which now splits /usr/lib into lib32 and lib64. I've updated the lib prefex everywhere I could find (a Makefile in snap/data and a Makefile in snap/cmd to put everything in lib64. However, on starting the snapd daemon, it is still looking for snap-seccomp in /usr/lib/snapd rather than /usr/lib64.
[08:22] <zigford> I did some searching of the go files to see if the path is hardcoded and there were a few reference, but they may be related to the internals of a snap itself.
[08:59] <zyga> zigford: hey
[09:00] <zyga> I’m about to take off for a trans Atlantic flight but please stick around next week. I can help you out
[09:01] <zyga> Snapd is complex and there are way more aspects than prefix path
[09:01] <zyga> You can chase seccomp by looking at interfaces/seccomp/backend.go
[09:02] <zyga> But there is more to this than a simple fix
[09:03] <zyga> zigford: you can also grab mborzecki here next week in case I am unavailable (conference)
[09:58] <zigford> righto, cheers zyga. Have a good flight and conference
[22:52] <Eighth_Doctor> zyga: https://pagure.io/flock/issue/163


[09:30]  * Gargravarr peers
[10:25] <BluesKaj> Hey all
[10:33] <tomreyn> hi
[10:35] <BluesKaj> hi
[11:04] <pauljw> Hi everyone
[11:05] <BluesKaj> 'Morning pauljw
[11:08] <pauljw> hey BluesKaj :)
[11:08] <BluesKaj> what's new pauljw ?
[11:10] <pauljw> not much, been busy with yard work.  helped my wife with her flower garden a bit yesterday.  today i need to get on the roof and clean the gutters, then mow.
[11:16] <JimBuntu> ugh, summer-time kinds of work.
[11:16] <BluesKaj> whoa, wish i would have been that ambitious this week, could have got a lot done, but I have to blame it on my friends :-)
[11:18] <BluesKaj> and now we have rain clouds moving in
[11:18] <BluesKaj> btw, 'Morning JimBuntu
[11:19] <JimBuntu> g'morning BluesKaj. I too wish I was as ambitious. I might actually get a few more things done.
[11:20] <pauljw> yeah, the rain is what i'm trying to beat, thunderstorms tomorrow.
[11:20] <BluesKaj> really dark in the western sky here
[11:21] <BluesKaj> looks like a t-storm
[11:21] <JimBuntu> I see a lot of blue mixed in with the clouds, what a rare treat, lol.
[11:23] <BluesKaj> I have plenty to do inside too, so I'll probly tackle that today
[11:25] <JimBuntu> I'm sticking to only tackling my day job today, lol, I'm super lazy. I *might* replace my magnetic HDD with an SSD that arrived, but I wouldn't hold my breath on that one. That's prolly something that will wait for Sunday.
[11:26] <pauljw> there never seems to be a shortage of things to do
[11:27] <JimBuntu> such is the blight of home owners. I'm starting to see why people like apartments, although I don't think I could be happy in one.
[11:29] <pauljw> no, apt life is nothing i'd be happy with.  we do rent, but it's a big old farm house.
[11:30] <BluesKaj> same here, i like having a yard despite the work it takes, anyway it also gets me outside etc
[11:30] <JimBuntu> I'm 1 generation removed from being a farmer, I feel the draw
[11:30]  * BluesKaj nods
[11:30] <BluesKaj> installed new Asus soundcard yesterday, it's cheap but really good sound for the money, almost equivalent to my old m-audio 192 which won't fit in the newer PCI-E slots https://www.asus.com/ca-en/Sound-Cards/Xonar_DGX/
[11:31] <pauljw> nice, BluesKaj
[11:32] <JimBuntu> Sweet BluesKaj. I'm not an aficionado, but I do route my primary machines audio through a large stereo system. I have just enough power to rattle every window in the house...
[11:32] <JimBuntu> I have not utilized it, but I guess the previous homeowner WAS an aficionado as they have most of the house wired up for speakers, with the wires all leading to the living room.
[11:33] <BluesKaj> no linux driver download or build needed, plug' n play
[11:33] <JimBuntu> gotta love it when plug'n'play actually works.
[11:34] <BluesKaj> just had to enable PCI-e in the BIOS
[11:34] <JimBuntu> service mongod status
[11:34] <JimBuntu> oops
[11:35] <BluesKaj> JimBuntu, yeah I just use spdif out to my receiver's DAC input
[11:36] <JimBuntu> frag, I must be half-asleep still. I just `rm -rf /var/lib/mongodb` on the wrong machine.
[11:36] <BluesKaj> uhoh
[11:37] <JimBuntu> oh well, I didn't love that database anyway, lolol. Luckily, it was simply a local copy of production. Note to self: pay attention!
[11:39] <JimBuntu> BluesKaj, I simply use my 3.5mm rear outputs to the stereo, the front outputs for this machine take precedence, so the audio routing is all based on where something is or isn't plugged in. Another thing I love compared to having to manually make changes.
[11:43] <BluesKaj> this machine is my media server as well as my primary pc . I've been integrating my pc with the sound system since I bought my first ms-windows pc. It just seemed the natural thing to do, like another audio source
[11:46] <JimBuntu> Yup. I even used one of my PCs as my primary TV. It had a large monitor with ancient touch-screen, which made things nice. I actually still have that old CRT somewhere, weighs like 70 pounds, maybe more. Didn't even have a regular DSUB, it took 5x BNC connectors.
[11:46] <JimBuntu> BluesKaj, do you remember the old "VOX" file format?
[11:47] <BluesKaj> JimBuntu, no my pc experience doesn't go back that far, I don't think
[11:49] <JimBuntu> This was still in use around 1993 ( at least by me, although I did trail behind the times back then )
[11:50] <JimBuntu> It was a ?popular? file format before MP3 became usable in real-time for the masses. That's the format I used to store audio files in when I didn't want to eat up all the space of WAVs.
[11:52] <BluesKaj> i didn't own a home pc 'til '99 ...i worked with application dedicated computers on the job and data entry into windows pcs using excel, but they didn't inspire me to buy a pc at the time. It was my wife who actually talked me into buying a pc :-)
[11:54] <JimBuntu> Oh wow. By '99 I was working in computer repair/building for commercial and residential. For some reason I was thinking you had been a user for longer, although now I remember.
[11:55] <JimBuntu> '99 was actually quite an exciting year for me, given the Y2K bug and all. So many commercial systems effected. I'm still shocked when people act as though it wasn't a big deal.
[11:56] <JimBuntu> I was part of a team called out to a parking garage, for an inspection... lol. When we checked, on 2000-01-01, the system would have went into lock-down, nobody in or out!
[11:57] <BluesKaj> Y2k was like the end of the world to some soothsayer types...came and went with a wimper IMO
[11:57] <JimBuntu> BluesKaj, trust me when I say this, please, it was only a whimper because there were so many of us out there fixing the issue before it became an issue.
[11:57] <pauljw> exactly
[11:58] <JimBuntu> I had the luxury of replacing a bunch of machines that wouldn't even reboot after the date change... upon 2000, they were complete toast, could even POST test.
[11:59] <BluesKaj> yeah, I know that's why it came and went without much damage ,...should have qualified my comment
[11:59] <JimBuntu> sorry, "test" is kind of redundant after POST.
[12:00] <JimBuntu> The time for mass fixing will be upon us fairly soon, hopefully we learned from our previous mistakes and nothing will really need to be done
[12:00] <JimBuntu> Well, I guess we have 20 years to wait, lol, but that's soon enough for me.
[12:02] <pauljw> i'll either be 85 or dead, not much concern here. lol
[12:02] <JimBuntu> Well pauljw , that's one way to handle it, lol. I will hopefully be out of the workforce and watching from a distance... or deep in the woods.
[12:02] <pauljw> :D
[12:06] <JimBuntu> I just remembered something funny about Y2k... there was a point of sale company, one of their systems was called something like POS2000.... yeah, guess who couldn't handle the date change? hahahahaha
[12:06] <BluesKaj> yeah , doubt very much that 20 yrs from now is in my future
[12:06] <JimBuntu> A very odd system... management computers ran Xenix, actual POS systems were running DOS.
[12:08] <JimBuntu> I still have one of their POS systems laying around somewhere, an intel 386 with probably < 1 hour of run-time on it.
[12:12] <pauljw> interesting
[12:13] <JimBuntu> Commander Keen, here I come! lol. nah, I would run that locally if I wanted to play it,... which, now that I think of it, I do.
[12:30] <pauljw> well, it's time to head to the roof.  bbl.
[12:30] <BluesKaj> never was much of a gamer ...oddly enough my wife loved playing LOTRO, D&D, and Evony. She was the "gamer" in the family :-)
[12:33] <JimBuntu> BluesKaj, I have only heard of D&D from that list. I didn't play D&D though. I was never that much of a gamer, but I could waste a couple hours playing things like Commander Keen, or Crystal Caves or Myst/etc. I did used to enjoy reading those 'choose your path' adventure books though.
[12:36] <BluesKaj> LOTRO is Lord Of The Rings Online
[12:38] <BluesKaj> my understanding is that it's quite complex
[12:43] <JimBuntu> LOTR is complex, I imagine any game based around it would be as well.
[13:00] <EriC^> wow the issues are piling over eachother
[13:00] <JimBuntu> busy day in main
[13:01] <EriC^> yup
[13:14] <BluesKaj> to be expected after a new release, users forget to get rid of ppas, or don't update and upgrade before upgrading to the new release
[13:15] <BluesKaj> etc etc
[14:31] <BluesKaj> wow, pouring rain here, can barely see across the street
[14:37] <EriC^> it was raining here yesterday, it's been pretty hot here and was raining too yesterday, odd
[14:37] <EriC^> 29'c + rain and it was making thunder in broad daylight/sunlight
[14:49] <nicomachus> EriC^: in the Southern US they have a phrase for that, when it rains/storms while the sun is shining. They say it's the Devil Beating His Wife.
[14:49] <EriC^> hahaha
[14:50] <EriC^> here they say "weasels are getting married"
[14:50] <EriC^> the devil beating his wife, lol
[14:51] <EriC^> that's a good one :D
[14:53] <BluesKaj> heh
[15:10] <EriC^> i think its so weird cause he tried to update from recovery mode?
[15:11] <EriC^> hmm who knows *shrug*
[15:13] <EriC^> low key i still think he's going to have to fresh install
[15:40] <BluesKaj> his sources.list shows the bionic repos
[16:55] <tomreyn> the 18.04 / gnome3 compositor seems ot be quite opengl hungry. i bet this gives intel gpu only systems a rather busy time. has anyone made experiences with it, yet?
[16:57] <nacc> tomreyn: i only have intel gpu machines (actively in use) -- not noticed anything
[16:57] <tomreyn> i tried 18.04 in virtualbox on an amd rx580 (amdgpu) equipped host and it is really slow, feels almost like vesa (but it isnt).
[16:57] <nacc> possibly due to virtualbox?
[16:57]  * nacc has never used it, nor has ever seen any reason to )
[16:57] <nacc> :)
[16:57] <tomreyn> yes, it surely is to a large degree
[16:58] <tomreyn> but xubuntu in the same environment was much faster
[16:58] <tomreyn> but it may just not compare well to bare metal
[16:58] <nacc> yeah i dunno
[16:58] <nacc> are you actually seeing gnome-shell or somethign consuming cpu?
[17:12] <nicomachus> we should just blacklist youtube videos.
[17:12] <nacc> yes.
[17:12] <SlidingHorn> I absolutely agree
[17:12] <nicomachus> I can't think of any situation where that would be an acceptable means of providing support to someone.
[17:12] <nacc> they have historically been spam
[17:12] <nicomachus> just add !youtube and have ubottu be real mean about it
[17:13] <SlidingHorn> on that point: how does one suggest an ubottu factoid?
[17:13] <nicomachus> I supposed you could do it in #ubuntu-ops
[17:14] <nacc> SlidingHorn: iirc, it's something like !<whtever> is ...
[17:14] <nacc> and that will get submitted as an answer
[17:14] <nacc> and then an admin has to accept it
[17:30] <tomreyn> nacc: i wasnt looking at cpu actually, was regerring to gpu reources
[17:31] <nacc> tomreyn: oh
[17:31] <nacc> tomreyn: ah re-reading -- opengl hungry
[17:33] <tomreyn> right
[17:36] <tomreyn> hmm can't seem to disable vsync
[17:37] <nicomachus> specialty distros are great but they also suck. a lot.
[17:38] <nicomachus> I installed osmc, which is a fork of Debian meant to give an XMBC/Kodi frontend to a raspberry pi, and it was so barebones I had to install man-db, alsamixer-utils, lshw, pci utils, usb utils, and basically every normally-default package that you could think of.
[17:39] <nicomachus> luckily it actually had apt and sudo already.
[17:39] <nicomachus> and it STILL is giving me a ton of trouble with alsa outputs. and since it's so specialized, getting support is a nightmare
[18:15]  * SlidingHorn has a sneaking suspicion "bunnyman13" is a particular user who was silenced in main on a VPN
[18:16] <nacc> SlidingHorn: feels like it.
[18:17] <SlidingHorn> it's him.
[18:17] <nacc> yep
[18:17] <leftyfb> bugzie: at it again eh?
[18:21] <tomreyn> https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=ubuntu-1804-6systems - summed up: not much has changed.
[18:26] <nicomachus> nacc: I knew there was something missing from this OSMC install that was keeping me from TAB-completing commands. it would do paths, but not any commands. Couldn't find the name of that package anywhere. THANK YOU
[18:26] <nacc> nicomachus: np :) i've hit that a few times myself
[18:26] <nicomachus> this osmc install is so bare bones I still don't know what I'm missing that I'm just used to having by default.
[18:27] <nicomachus> i'm just finding out as I go along.
[18:28] <nacc> nicomachus: sounds like it :)
[18:28] <nacc> nicomachus: presumably bash-completion was not, becasue the assumption was you'd use the XMBC frontend?
[18:28] <nacc> nicomachus: and not be logged into the console
[18:29] <nicomachus> idk, because the only service installed by default is SSH so they obviously expect you to be using it at some somtimes.
[18:29] <nicomachus> at least sometimes*
[18:29] <nacc> strange
[18:29] <nacc> probably to debug?
[18:30] <nicomachus> Yes mostly.
[18:30] <nicomachus> they do want you working with xmbc frontend for most things.
[18:31] <nicomachus> I forget what I was doing the other day... trying to open some config, and it threw a message saying "Whoa, it looks like you're trying to access <thing>. Here at OSMC, we do things a bit differently. You should able to change all configurations from the XMBC GUI, but if you have any questions or feature requests please see our community boards at <whatever url>"
[18:32] <nacc> yeah
[18:32] <nacc> that's pretty common in these locked-down style things
[18:33] <EriC^> fancy
[18:33] <EriC^> :D
[18:33] <nacc> it's basically an appliance, it sounds like
[18:33] <nacc> linux stil, but an appliane, which means you can do stuff to it, but it's not supported (generally)
[18:33] <nacc> like android, in some ways
[18:34] <nicomachus> I still got irssi and screen installed. lol
[18:34] <nacc> heh
[18:34] <nicomachus> with the config files from my old ubuntu install on the same rpi
[18:37] <Wirehunter> Sometimes, when I'm watching staring at my laptop screen. I give some input, when it's trying to go lock itself and turn off the screen. The sliding up to unlock panel is stuck over my gnome-shell.
[18:37] <nacc> in case anyone else missed it, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BionicBeaver/ReleaseNotes
[18:37] <Wirehunter> Has anyone else encountered that before?
[18:37] <nacc> 17.10 upgrades are now on
[18:39] <Bashing-om> nacc: \O/ d-r-u
[18:39] <nacc> yep
[18:39] <nacc> presumably will start seeing more requests for support as a result, or maybe that's why there's been a spike in the last day
[18:40] <Bashing-om> nacc: All wikk even out . given time :)
[18:40] <nacc> heh
[18:43] <nicomachus> I somehow don't even have the LTS update yet. maybe it's waiting for the .1, idk
[18:43] <nicomachus> I haven't bothered to check.
[18:43] <nacc> nicomachus: LTS wont' be until july
[18:43] <nacc> (18.04.1)
[18:44] <nicomachus> well that's probably it then.
[18:44] <nacc> see the above URL :)
[18:44] <nacc> )
[18:44] <nacc> :) rather
[18:45] <pragmaticenigma> I install updates when the computer says their ready. I figure if it isn't prompting me, it's not ready and not worth the hassle of upgrading to a potentially buggy machine
[18:46] <nicomachus> pragmaticenigma: same. but the computer doesn't notify me unless I ask it if there's one ready. if it says there isn't, I don't upgrade.
[18:46] <nicomachus> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[18:47] <nicomachus> I could backup, download a fresh .iso and do a fresh install, but honestly who has the time for that
[18:47] <pragmaticenigma> I run MythTV on my... upgrades aren't usually my friend anyways. It's easier to wipe and start over
[18:49] <nicomachus> it's been three days and still no response on an "official" support channel.
[18:49] <nicomachus> kill me now
[18:49] <Wirehunter> When will we get 4.17? 18.10?
[18:50] <nacc> Wirehunter: 18.10 will be the next kernel update period, yeah
[18:50] <nacc> Wirehunter: i doubt it's been decided what version it will be yet
[18:50] <leftyfb> nacc: 2017 May 28 03:31:09 *	yokowka<EMAIL_ADDRESS>has joined #ubuntu
[18:50] <leftyfb> not newer
[18:50] <nacc> hrm
[18:50]  * leftyfb points to bugzie
[18:54] <Wirehunter> So if I want it now, I should install it from here? http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v4.17-rc3/
[18:54] <Wirehunter> Would be nice to get the extra battery life :)
[18:56] <hggdh> chances are the kernel for 18.10 will be 4.19 or newer (all depends on when the kernels are released upstream)
[18:56] <hggdh> oops, 4.18 or later. No 4.17, probably
[18:56] <nacc> Wirehunter: i wouldn't install an rc
[18:57] <hggdh> Wirehunter: you *can* install from the mainline PPA, but you will not have the local Ubuntu patches and integration
[18:57] <hggdh> we usually just use mainline to test for a bug (or resolution of)
[19:04] <Wirehunter> Ah you're right, I probably shouldn't install this.
[19:05] <nacc> Wirehunter: it also wont' update to the later 4.17
[19:05] <Wirehunter> But if I would? I can just boot from the 4.15 image whenever I want right? Or do I risk corrupting my filesystems or damaging my hardware?
[19:05] <nacc> Wirehunter: you do risk that, in theory, but probably not in practice
[19:15] <Bashing-om> Wirehunter: Or one can wait and see what is in the HWE .
[19:15] <Bashing-om> !hwe | Wirehunter
[19:16] <nacc> whch wouldn't be until 18.10 anyways
[19:16] <Wirehunter> That's to install the 18.10 kernel on 18.04.01 lts
[19:16] <nacc> Wirehunter: right
[19:18] <Wirehunter> I think I should be fine though, except for the Optimus setup for my 940mx, I hate optimus.
[19:18] <Wirehunter> the nvidia driver itself should do fine, as it uses dkms
[19:32] <nacc> Wirehunter: except it probably wont' build
[20:07] <EriC^> i wonder how easy it is to bruteforce a 6-7 length multicase alpha numeric login pass
[20:08] <EriC^> anyone have any experience trying to unwrap a passphrase using bruteforce?
[20:23] <oerheks> more than 16 digits beats 99% rainbowtables
[20:24] <EriC^> 16 digits is nuts
[20:24] <EriC^> my login pass is "'
[20:25] <EriC^> it's quick and next to the enter button
[20:29] <oerheks> my password can be typed with left-hand .. oops
[20:29] <SlidingHorn> oerheks: is it  stewardesses?
[20:30] <oerheks> nice one, but no
[20:30] <EriC^> qwerty
[20:30] <oerheks> not even 'verder' = continue(eng)
[20:30] <oerheks> that would be a 2 finger pass
[20:38] <oerheks> hahahahaha
[20:39] <oerheks> yes
[20:39] <oerheks> https://i.imgur.com/sI5koAi.png
[20:39] <oerheks> upgrade path is there
[20:39] <EriC^> :D
[21:36] <SlidingHorn> tomreyn: what time are most folks in the -steam channel active?
[21:42] <tomreyn> SlidingHorn: it's not exactly an active channel. you may (or may not) find logs on http://irclogs.ubuntu.com
[21:43] <SlidingHorn> tomreyn: gotcha - thanks...I asked in main just to see if by chance someone there might know the answer to my issue


[00:13] <andreserl> howdy!! Library packages are not supposed to have Depends on ${python:Depends}, or are they?
[00:50] <ScottK> andreserl: Please don't ask the same questions in multiple channels just a few minutes apart.
[01:43] <mnajem> anybody experienced problem using gnash on maverick?
[01:43] <mnajem> mnajem got it using CPU usage almost 100%
[01:44]  * RAOF wonders how that's different to the regular flash player…
[01:45] <mwhudson> can someone remind me/point me to the documentation of what's special about the "metapackages" section?
[01:45] <RAOF> mnajem: Likely you'll want to file a bug, particularly if you can find a reproducible way of making it misbehave.
[01:45] <andreserl> ScottK, just noticed that question was more appropriate for -motu that's why I repeat the question there
[01:45] <ebroder> mwhudson: I don't know about docs, but I think it's implemented by a file in /etc/apt/apt/conf.d
[01:46] <mnajem> RAOF, thanks
[01:46] <ScottK> andreserl: In that case, it'd be nice to mention it in the first channel so multiple people don't consider answering the same question.
[01:47] <andreserl> ScottK, ok :) I'm answering in -motu now
[01:47] <ScottK> OK
[01:48] <mwhudson> ebroder: thanks, so it seems my next question is "what does Never-MarkAuto-Sections mean" :-)
[02:03]  * sanchaz off to bed
[03:02] <andreserl> kirkland, ping?
[03:02] <kirkland> andreserl: hi
[03:03] <andreserl> kirkland, howdy!! quick question :). Ok so I've got another action for powernap.
[03:03] <kirkland> andreserl: k
[03:03] <andreserl> kirkland, In lower power state, I change the CPU governor from ondemand to powersave, which sets the CPU freq to 800MHz. Do you know if it is possible to even set it lower by hardcoding the frequency?
[03:04] <kirkland> andreserl: it's not possible
[03:04] <kirkland> andreserl: i'm pretty sure that that should already be covered by pm-powersave
[03:04] <kirkland> andreserl: ie, i don't think you need to do that one
[03:05] <andreserl> kirkland, there doesn't seem to be any script that actually does that
[03:05] <andreserl> so that's why I did it
[03:05] <andreserl> I'll ask pitti tomorrow :)
[03:06] <kirkland> andersk: ah, okay, then yeah, that's a good one
[03:06] <kirkland> andreserl: ^
[03:07] <andreserl> kirkland, but for example, when it is ondeman it will allow the CPU to automatically change the frequencies. If I set it to powersave, it will stay in 800Mhz always
[03:07] <kirkland> andreserl: cool
[03:07] <andreserl> kirkland, ok then :). Anyways, other than that, now that this scripts will be in pm-powersave, Should I still keep the feature to be able to enable/disable scripts, and list which ones are enabled/disabled?
[03:08] <kirkland> andreserl: nah
[03:08] <kirkland> andreserl: i don't think it's necessary
[03:08] <kirkland> andreserl: if it is, it probably belongs in pm-utils
[03:12] <andreserl> kirkland, ok then :) thanks for the input. Btw.. I presented it yesterday in class and professor was very satisfied with it
[03:17] <kirkland> andreserl: great!
[03:19] <andreserl> kirkland, They were asking me so many questions about it, that I ended up explaining the whole project instead of just the part that was supposed to be done for the course project.
[03:19] <kirkland> andreserl: heh
[03:19] <kirkland> cool
[04:05] <hdon> hi guys. i have a rather technical question: i am sshing into a Solaris system at work using gnome-terminal. keys like control+arrowkey don't work. how do i start to troubleshoot this problem? it's been causing me a lot of grief
[06:28] <dholbach> GOOD MORNING!
[09:06] <geser> can someone please accept the nomination for maverick in bug 617885 so it doesn't vanish from the sponsoring queue
[11:39] <cjwatson> geser: done
[14:07] <barry> ScottK: morning.  i was off on another desktop for a bit.  py3.2 is not building?
[14:10] <cjwatson> jelmer: did bzr-svn 1.0.3 affect compatibility with previous mappings?
[14:11] <cjwatson> jelmer: I have a (fairly important and complicated) branch which I believe I last pulled using 1.0.2; 1.0.3 now says "These branches have diverged"
[14:11] <jelmer> cjwatson: no, the mappings haven't changed since 0.4.x IIRC
[14:12] <cjwatson> jelmer: if you have a moment, it would be great if you could have a look at lp:~cjwatson/debian-installer/main vs. svn://svn.debian.org/svn/d-i/trunk/installer - I'm not sure how to investigate further
[14:12] <jelmer> cjwatson: what does "bzr missing" say about the differences?
[14:12] <jelmer> cjwatson: I'll have a look
[14:13] <cjwatson> jelmer: it says there are no common revisions
[14:14] <cjwatson> missing back to r1 both sides
[14:14] <cjwatson> it also had to completely refetch the svn branch when I did 'bzr pull' earlier
[14:18] <directhex> builds are broken right now, yes?
[14:20] <cjwatson> directhex: hmm?
[14:21] <directhex> oh, perhaps not. was misreading the log
[14:23] <cjwatson> well, happy to look if you spot something
[14:30] <Laney> a mere bashism
[15:08] <pitti> kirkland: overheard @ plumbers: PROC_EVENTS
[15:09] <pitti> kirkland: that can be used to get notifications about new procsses, forks, etc., for the server powernap thingy we discussed
[15:09] <pitti> kirkland: so, we wouldn't need to poll any more
[15:09] <pitti> http://lwn.net/Articles/157150/
[15:09] <pitti> kirkland: I haven't researched details yet
[15:09] <cjwatson> is that the same as the netlink proc connector?
[15:09] <seb128> cjwatson, do you mind if I assign bug #662276 to you? it seems you usually do the vim merges in Ubuntu
[15:09] <cjwatson> yes, apparently so
[15:09] <pitti> cjwatson: presumably yes
[15:09] <seb128> cjwatson, geser did the work, it just needs review and sponsoring
[15:10] <pitti> cjwatson: I just wasn't aware of this before
[15:10] <cjwatson> seb128: it's already queued in my browser, at geser's request; go ahead
[15:10] <pitti> it's not race free, thus not suitable for upstart & friends
[15:10] <seb128> cjwatson, ok thanks, I'm just tried to clean the sponsoring queue a bit
[15:10] <cjwatson> I'm trying to get natty builds working as a priority, that's all
[15:10] <cjwatson> cyphermox: any luck with dhcp?
[15:11] <pitti> kirkland: /usr/src/linux-headers-2.6.36-1/include/linux/cn_proc.h is the API
[15:11] <cyphermox> cjwatson, I haven't had time to get back to it, but I will in a few minutes... afaik it's good now as soon as I upload NM with the added Breaks and give it a quick test
[15:12] <cjwatson> music to my ears
[15:13] <cyphermox> cjwatson, I already have a scratch system upgraded to natty so I can try the ppa
[15:21] <ebroder> pitti: how is proc connector race-y? Because I think Keybuk was talking about using it to deal with some double-forking issues in upstart
[15:22] <Keybuk> it sounds like pitti has been listening to lenny
[15:22] <pitti> ebroder: I don't know the details; Lennart just said that it's not the right thing to use for pid 1; perhaps they don't get queued properly, so that you miss events when you don't get scheduled in for a while
[15:23] <pitti> but as I said, IANAKD, and only parrotting here
[15:23] <pitti> but either way, it seems more than appropriate for powernap
[15:24] <Keybuk> Lenny is wrong, fwiw
[15:25] <ebroder> the last time I used the proc connector, my monitoring process was getting woken up frequently enough that it caused a performance hit - I had to add some code to only process events after they'd spent some amount of time queueing
[15:26] <Keybuk> that's because it's a bit of a firehose
[15:26] <Keybuk> and includes all clone() calls, not just fork() ect.
[15:26] <Keybuk> so you get notifications as threads come and go as well
[15:26] <ebroder> right, right. and to be clear, when i talk about a performance hit, i'm talking about a hit on running ./configure on something :)
[15:27] <Keybuk> so you use the socket filter api over top of it, so you just get the events you're actually interested in
[15:36] <cjwatson> ebroder: clearly, you should run ./configure on Cygwin instead, since it has none of these advanced APIs!
[15:43] <ScottK> barry: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python3.2/3.2~a3-2
[15:47] <pitti> ebroder: the current powernap uses polling (like 20 times a second), which hardly sounds more efficient
[15:48] <ebroder>  sure. I had no idea there was a socket filtering api. it looks awesome
[15:59] <RoAkSoAx> pitti: Do you have some free time to review a library split for cluster-glue?
[15:59] <pitti> RoAkSoAx: not this week, sorry (i'm on a conference)
[15:59] <RoAkSoAx> pitti: ok no prob :)
[16:11] <jelmer> cjwatson: Still there?
[16:11] <jelmer> cjwatson: I've pulled down those two repositories and am looking at them at the moment.
[16:12] <cjwatson> jelmer: here
[16:12] <Lonewulf> Hi I am having trouble with 10.04 and a CQ50-110US laptop any help.
[16:12] <jelmer> cjwatson: it appears as though the first branch was still using the old (pre-bzr-svn 0.4) style mappings.
[16:12] <cjwatson> ah, that's possible, I created it a long time ago
[16:12] <jelmer> cjwatson: did you perhaps change machines, or did you move the branch?
[16:13] <cjwatson> the initial import was in November 2007
[16:13] <jelmer> cjwatson: newer versions of bzr-svn would still have used the older style mappings if they were configured to do so
[16:14] <cjwatson> I've switched disks since then, but I did a full-system restore
[16:15] <cjwatson> http://paste.ubuntu.com/525745/ - contents of ~/.bazaar/subversion.conf
[16:15] <cjwatson> still seems to be configured there
[16:15] <cjwatson> I don't think I moved it in the filesystem.  What's the UUID of?
[16:16] <jelmer> cjwatson: it's the UUID of the remote subversion repository
[16:17] <cjwatson> I would be surprised if that had changed, but I suppose it's possible - how would I check?
[16:17] <jelmer> cjwatson: 'svn info svn://svn.debian.org/svn/d-i' should tell you
[16:17] <jelmer> it doesn't seem to have changed though
[16:18] <jelmer> so maybe this is a regression in bzr-svn's backward compatibility support
[16:18] <cjwatson> I'm happy to try the version in natty if you think that would help, or try other debugging
[16:27] <jelmer> cjwatson: I'm currently checking if I can reproduce it here (trunk) with your configuration
[16:30] <cjwatson> ta
[16:34] <Wubbbi> Hi guys ;D
[16:41] <Lonewulf> My Nvidia 8200M G does not do compositing....For what ever reason.
[16:43] <nemo>   PID USER      PR  NI  VIRT  RES  SHR S %CPU %MEM    TIME+  COMMAND
[16:43] <nemo>  1280 root      20   0 1293m 843m 274m S    4 22.0 495:25.71 Xorg
[16:43]  * nemo sighs
[16:52] <kirkland> pitti: sweet!
[16:53] <kirkland> RoAkSoAx: see PROC_EVENTS from pitti, http://lwn.net/Articles/157150/
[16:53] <kirkland> pitti: that's pretty awesome
[16:55] <nemo> 00b4e000-25362000 rw-p 00000000 00:00 0                                  [heap]
[16:55] <nemo> hm
[16:56] <nemo> I guess I could try a gdb dump of that...
[17:01] <nemo> damn. tried attaching to the process and Xorg went wild.  now uses 100 megs more of memory and 100% of CPU
[17:02] <nemo> appears to be ignoring gdb's request to suspend
[17:08]  * nemo sighs and kills it
[17:08] <nemo> so today's attempt to figure out my massive Xorg leak in maverick, once more driven back
[17:08] <RoAkSoAx> kirkland: ok will take a look at it :)
[17:08] <nemo> heh. gdm stop failing
[17:09] <nemo> hard kill time
[17:09] <nemo> -2 ignored, -4, on to -9
[17:11] <RoAkSoAx> kirkland: so we could change the process monitor to use that instead of examining the process table. and not do it through upstart?
[18:01] <barry> TheMuso: hi!  say, if you have some time, ScottK recommended that i chat with you about maverick on my powermac g5 dual 2.7.  i'm trying to get a ppc box up - it actually installed fine, but seems to be very unstable when running under maverick
[18:02] <ScottK> barry: I should have mentioned that there is #ubuntu-powerpc too.
[18:02] <barry> ScottK: ah, that's probably a better place to ask.  /me joins and re-posts
[18:36] <cjwatson> first d-i installation images for natty are up, but don't bother testing them, there's a fatal udpkg bug.  fixed upstream and will trickle down tomorrow or so
[18:36] <cjwatson> (no CD images yet)
[18:37]  * SpamapS relaxes the trigger finger poised over his wget window...
[18:37]  * highvoltage is itching for cd images
[18:37] <SpamapS> highvoltage: maybe try baby powder for that?
[18:37] <highvoltage> SpamapS: well, I upgraded to Natty on my laptop and that helped a bit
[18:38] <SpamapS> So.. has anyone seen chromium's method of source distribution and dependency specification.. they're pretty much throwing tarball out the window in favor of svn repository@revision
[18:39] <cjwatson> a lot of that's just an artifact of how the internal repository management stuff works at google
[18:40] <SpamapS> http://src.chromium.org/viewvc/chrome/releases/9.0.572.0/DEPS?revision=65042&view=markup
[18:42] <SpamapS> It does not jive well with making packages. :-P
[18:43] <cjwatson> no reason you couldn't generate tarballs as an archive format from svn repository@revision
[18:43] <persia> SpamapS, You might want to look at some of fta's scripts to handle that sort of thing.
[18:47] <SpamapS> Indeed, it seems the only traditional "release" that is provided is these DEPS files ..
[18:48] <SpamapS> So.. hmm.. create a tarball with the svn revno pointed to...
[18:48] <SpamapS> persia: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fta/chromium/
[18:48] <SpamapS> persia: that stuff?
[18:48] <persia> SpamapS, Well, the stuff that generates that stuff (and the daily builds and the license-analysis tools, etc.)
[18:49] <persia> Catch fta and he can likely tell you lots more about them.
[18:50] <SpamapS> fta: when you have a moment, I'd love to discuss your tools for extracting/handling chromium sources for building packages (I will send an email too)
[18:50]  * SpamapS understands fta is probably past EOW for the day.
[18:51] <fta> SpamapS, hi. no, i'm still here. what do you want to know?
[18:52] <SpamapS> fta: so I'm wanting to build mod_pagespeed .. which depends on the depot_tools from chromium...
[18:52] <SpamapS> fta: seems like there are a whole bunch of hoops to jump through to get all of this packaged in a traditional manner.
[18:53] <SpamapS> fta: persia suggested that you may have gone through some of this pain already.
[18:53] <fta> SpamapS, not really, assuming you have the correct DEPS file in your project
[18:54] <fta> it's kind of easy once you have depot_tools, you need to call gclient
[18:54] <SpamapS> fta: right, so shouldn't depot tools be a package?
[18:55] <fta> SpamapS, well, so far, it was just used by chromium
[18:55] <SpamapS> I don't want to build it just to play with it.. I really want to package it the right way. But its hard to know what the version of depot_tools is.
[18:56] <SpamapS> I'm happy just working backward, and making the version the revno that is pointed to by my DEPS file ...
[18:56] <SpamapS> fta: is depot_tools included in a binary package already?
[18:56] <fta> SpamapS, it's small enough to be carried. there's no release for this i'm afraid
[18:57] <persia> Could we create a "release" sequence to prevent code duplication?
[18:57] <fta> sure
[18:58] <fta> i already did it for gyp
[18:58] <fta> as i needed it for at least 2 packages
[18:58] <SpamapS> Version: 0.1~svn840-0ubuntu1
[18:58] <fta> yep
[18:58] <SpamapS> so just make a chromium-depot-tools 0.1~svnXXXX
[18:58] <fta> but it doesn't include depot_tools
[18:59] <fta> upstream will hate me if i do that
[18:59] <fta> :)
[19:02] <SpamapS> wait.. so.. chromium's build process seems to do svn co's ..
[19:02] <SpamapS> how does that work on a buildd?
[19:02] <SpamapS> oh wait thats just in gos
[19:03] <SpamapS> aha, so the magic is in get-original-source .. ok its making sense to me now
[19:03] <persia> SpamapS, We can always create a tarball from a known revision (and there are good scripts to automate this)
[19:05] <SpamapS> since src/depot_tools is already in the chromium source.. we can just create a chromium-depot-tools package and install it..
[19:05] <persia> Wait: what's the bit about upstream hating this?
[19:06] <SpamapS> I'm not sure they would hate this part
[19:06] <micahg> SpamapS: you should be careful with that as chromium has a micro-release exception, so the tools will change in a stable release
[19:07] <SpamapS> micahg: I think thats ok. Things that build-depend on the tools currently all suggest as a first step 'svn co tool_url/trunk'
[19:07] <persia> micahg, That's fungible, to a certain degree.
[19:07] <fta> SpamapS, i do something like this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/525875/
[19:07] <SpamapS> fta: why do all of the packages in chromium pre-depend on lzma btw?
[19:08] <fta> SpamapS, because my debs are compressed with lzma, and if you don't have it, bad things will happen
[19:08] <micahg> persia: right, but people might be shocked if they can non longer regenerate a source for a package in a stable release due to the depot_tools changing
[19:08] <SpamapS> fta: ahhh good to know
[19:09] <hdon> hi guys. i have a rather technical question: i am sshing into a Solaris system at work using gnome-terminal. keys like control+arrowkey don't work. how do i start to troubleshoot this problem? it's been causing me a lot of grief
[19:09] <hdon> i say "technical" but i guess what i mean is old-school. the new school users with their GUIs for everything would probably have no idea where to begin
[19:10] <SpamapS> hdon: #ubuntu-server may be a better place to ask. :)
[19:11] <fta> persia, upstream hated me when i split gyp from chromium, it was not meant to be used outside of chromium, yet it's perfectly usable outside
[19:11] <hdon> SpamapS, thanks !
[19:11] <SpamapS> fta: even though its being used all over the place now.. page-speed.. mod_pagespeed.. all using gyp and gclient
[19:12] <fta> SpamapS, didn't know it. i'm glad to hear it. are those all google stuff?
[19:13] <SpamapS> fta: yes
[19:13] <fta> ok, makes sense
[19:13] <SpamapS> I'd really like to get mod_pagespeed into natty and backport it to lucid so that people don't have to get a binary only .deb from google
[19:15] <persia> Best place to start is probably a discussion with upstream to make sure there is shared agreement on how the pieces work together.
[19:17] <SpamapS> Their build instructions are pretty uniform.. svn co whatever the latest depot_tools are .. add them to your PATH .. type gclient..
[19:18] <persia> Sure, but if multiple projects are sharing the same dependencies, and they want to have feature changes or API shifts in the dependencies, they must have a way to track them, which system, if we used, would probably make our offerings less offensive.
[19:19] <SpamapS> the gclient script even runs svn up on the dir if it can.
[19:20] <SpamapS> persia: from what I'm seeing.. they're pretty much in the "the latest crack is the only crack" mode for these tools..
[19:20] <fta> yes, it's doing a lot of magic.. too much for my taste. that's why i added the --nohooks
[19:21] <SpamapS> They do lock it down with the other bits though.. just not this particular one.
[19:22] <fta> otherwise, it runs gyp which needs all the -dev packages installed.. which i don't have/want in the box i use to create my tarballs
[19:24] <SpamapS> The wrapper for gclient seems to just be concerned with getting the latest crack..
[19:26] <SpamapS> or .. maybe we should just get out of upstream's way and put this in multiverse. :-P
[19:26] <persia> SpamapS, multiverse doesn't help with the security aspects, and it's only for non-free software anyway.
[19:26] <cjwatson> indeed.  multiverse is not a dumping ground for stuff that's just bad.
[19:28] <SpamapS> Right, the question is.. when upstream wants their stuff updated every time it runs... can we accomodate that?
[19:29] <micahg> SpamapS: -backports?
[19:29] <micahg> SpamapS: every time it runs?
[19:30] <persia> We don't do runtime updates: fails the case where there is no internet access (consider a small LAN on the moon: latency to upstream is too painful)
[19:30] <SpamapS> http://src.chromium.org/viewvc/chrome/trunk/tools/depot_tools/gclient?revision=63234&view=markup
[19:31] <SpamapS> update_depot_tools updates everything from svn
[19:31] <fta> and?
[19:31] <SpamapS> persia: agreed. Your point about talking with upstream is I think even more important.
[19:32] <fta> SpamapS, i just use it in my get-orig-source rule, which happens on my side, before i send the source package to the builder
[19:32] <SpamapS> fta: right, but thats going to violate debian policy (maybe its ok in ubuntu?) if I do that for mod_pagespeed.
[19:33] <SpamapS> No embedding of convenience copies of source code IIRC.
[19:33] <SpamapS> http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-source.html section 4.13
[19:33] <fta> having a separate package for that is not needed. would even make my life even harder as it's one more dep to track and to update along with chromium for lucid up to natty for each release
[19:34] <SpamapS> hmmm actually.. the wording is different than I remembered it..
[19:34] <SpamapS> "packages should not make use of these convenience copies unless the included package is explicitly intended to be used in this way"
[19:35] <fta> was already though enough to get the SRU expection for chromium, its codecs and gyp. I don't want to return there ask for another tiny bit ;)
[19:35] <fta> tough
[19:36] <SpamapS> right, I'm thinking more than the chromium package can just spit out its version of depot_tools as a binary package.. and then we just rally around that.
[19:36] <SpamapS> s/than/that/
[19:37] <fta> btw, chromium also provides a real tarball, something like 2GB compared to my already huge 180MB stripped tarball
[19:37] <fta> some distros requested it, so they don't have to fight with svn
[19:38] <fta> but it's regularly broken
[19:38] <SpamapS> I like the get orig source method.
[19:38] <SpamapS> it makes perfect sense.
[19:38] <fta> i like it too, but most people hate me for this
[19:38] <persia> SpamapS, The no-convenience-copies bit is mostly a maintainability thing: when things aren't used elsewhere, nobody cares that much.  See libgyp as an example: once there were two users, it needed to get split.
[19:39] <ivoks> i might be wrong, but i think our LSB is broken
[19:39] <ivoks> killproc doesn't work
[19:39] <persia> ivoks, What gives you that impression?
[19:40] <ivoks> persia: :
[19:40] <ivoks> killproc KILL /usr/sbin/corosync
[19:40] <ivoks> /sbin/start-stop-daemon: signal value must be numeric or name of signal (KILL, INT, ...)
[19:40] <ivoks> without a signal, it returns 0, but the process is still running
[19:40] <cjwatson> it's documented as killproc pathname [signal]
[19:40] <cjwatson> /usr/share/doc/lsb-base/README.Debian.gz
[19:41] <SpamapS> fta: so if I sent you a patch to have chromium output gclient as a binary package, would you be alright with that?
[19:41] <ivoks> cjwatson: same results
[19:41]  * fta should make some tests to see if xz is faster than lzma.. lzma takes ages to compress my tarballs :(
[19:41] <ivoks> it doesn't kill it
[19:42] <cjwatson> I know no more.  (It seems to be the other way round in this SuSE man page I found under a rock, though ...)
[19:42] <cjwatson> you could just use pkill
[19:42] <ivoks> in suse/redhat it works in a way that it sends TERM, waits
[19:42] <ivoks> then if it doesn't exit, sends KILL
[19:43] <ivoks> if signal is specified, it sends signal and exits (without waiting for the results)
[19:43] <elmo> ivoks: is this hardy by any chance?
[19:43] <ivoks> it's lucid
[19:43] <elmo> ah, ok
[19:44] <ivoks> and we get this for free :)
[19:44] <ivoks> /sbin/start-stop-daemon: warning: this system is not able to track process names
[19:44] <ivoks> longer than 15 characters, please use --exec instead of --name.
[19:45] <micahg> fta: you might also want to check lzip
[19:45] <ivoks> (by using killproc)
[19:46] <fta> SpamapS, ..i don't particular the idea of a system gclient. it's already proven weak several times, creating incomplete and unusable tarballs, like when google changes the format of the DEPS files, that's why there's no upstream release, forced me to do XX+0 fake versions :(
[19:48] <fta> micahg, tought about xz because it superseded lzma, and broke my backports in the process
[19:48] <SpamapS> fta: well crap!
[19:48] <SpamapS> fta: actually
[19:49] <SpamapS> fta: then that suggests its more like a generated configure/aclocal.sh script than stable system tool.. and probably doesn't need to be packaged.. yet.
[19:49] <fta> micahg, (because tar -c --lzma -f creates a xz file on maverick which can't be opened on hardy with the same command which really expects lzma)
[19:50] <fta> SpamapS, not exactly, configure/auto* is more equiv to gyp. gclient is a source fetcher, capable of running hooks, incl gyp
[19:51] <fta> and it's a moving target
[19:51] <persia> !ohmy > SpamapS
[19:51]  * SpamapS just mispelled the common fish.. he swears!
[19:52] <ion> “crap” warrants !ohmy? :-)
[19:52] <ion> Everybody craps.
[19:52] <micahg> fta: ok, I guess you have to wait another 6 months to upgrade to lzip
[19:52] <persia> ion, Only once in a while.
[19:52] <micahg> ion: no, craps is a gambling game in Vegas
[19:53] <fta> eheh
[19:53] <SpamapS> fta: given that chromium would spit it out, only to support a few of the other bits building.. I think the other bits can adapt to chromium's massiveness...
[19:54]  * fta attempting one more time to land the launchpad translations into chromium...
[19:54] <fta> drum rolls..
[19:55] <fta> SpamapS, another reason i'm reluctant is that i do tons of builds: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fta/ppa-dashboard/chromium-daily.html
[19:55] <fta> (and i have to fix the new beta too, damn)
[19:56] <fta> (and the prepare the new stable too)
[20:01] <fta> grrr, failed. a translator turned a "<!-- -->" into "<!- ->" making a xml.sax parse error :(
[20:03] <ebroder> There are comments in translatable strings?
[20:05] <persia> ebroder, Consider rather that there may be translatable comments being exposed to users.
[20:05] <ebroder> persia: That sounds like they're no longer comments
[20:06] <persia> ebroder, use/mention.  It's a comment *as part of the UI*, rather than a comment in the code.
[20:09] <fta> i should reject those and alert the translator, not sure how to do that with launchpad though...
[20:17] <deyaert> hi
[20:19] <deyaert> hm
[20:19] <deyaert> quitet in here
[20:19] <deyaert> quiet :p
[20:19] <cjwatson> people don't usually respond unless there's an actual question ...
[20:20] <deyaert> ok
[20:20] <deyaert> sorry
[20:21] <deyaert> i'm quite new in the linux world
[20:21] <deyaert> but i'm a developer
[20:21] <deyaert> and i'm interested in ubuntu development
[20:22] <deyaert> what are the main languages that are used to create the ubuntu os?
[20:22] <cjwatson> C, Python, POSIX shell, C++, Perl, various others.  my experience is that it helps greatly to be flexible
[20:23] <cjwatson> bear in mind that the bulk of the actual code is written in other projects, and integrated in Debian and/or Ubuntu
[20:25] <deyaert> okay
[20:26] <deyaert> i've read the ubuntu documentation on how to set up the dev environment
[20:26] <deyaert> but are there many articles on the actual development
[20:26] <deyaert> debugging
[20:26] <deyaert> packaging
[20:26] <deyaert> submitting code
[20:26] <deyaert> ...
[20:27] <cjwatson> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment and http://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributeToUbuntu are full of links that should help
[20:31] <nemo> deyaert: http://www.debian.org/doc/FAQ/ch-pkg_basics.en.html
[20:32] <deyaert> which languages you'd recommend
[20:32] <ebroder> deyaert: it's less about what language and more about what you want to do
[20:32] <nemo> depends what you want to do
[20:32] <nemo> jinx
[20:33] <nemo> personally I work on Hedgewars, but that's not ubuntu specific. I'm just hanging out here hoping to glean suggestions on a memory leak in Xorg
[20:33] <deyaert> bugfixing is quite a general subject
[20:33] <ScottK> Depends on your interests.  You can be productive with even a bit of shell.
[20:33] <ebroder> deyaert: it's true, but you're better off starting more focused than "fixing bugs in ubuntu". something like "fixing bugs in empathy" or whatever
[20:33] <cjwatson> I never recommend any particular language - it's definitely more important to find something that interests you and work from there
[20:33] <deyaert> it's all new for me
[20:33] <deyaert> i mainly developed in java and c#
[20:33] <deyaert> and i come from the windows world :-)
[20:33] <ebroder> deyaert: well are you using ubuntu now? what bugs you about it?
[20:33] <cjwatson> start with things that are comfortable for you then
[20:34] <cjwatson> Ubuntu has code in practically every language under the sun, somewhere
[20:34] <deyaert> but you hear about a lot of languages
[20:34] <ebroder> if you know c#, you could look at some of the mono apps like banshee and tomboy
[20:34] <deyaert> perl python ...
[20:34] <deyaert> mono I've worked with
[20:34] <cjwatson> if you want to pick up more languages, go for it, but there's no reason you should feel constrained by what the bulk of the base system is written in when you're starting out
[20:34] <deyaert> but that's more for application development not?
[20:34] <cjwatson> Ubuntu contains applications written in Mono
[20:35] <deyaert> yea?
[20:35] <deyaert> out of the box?
[20:35] <deyaert> which ones?
[20:35] <cjwatson> ebroder just gave examples
[20:35] <nemo> deyaert: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=51003 (more on packaging)
[20:35] <cjwatson> tomboy is out of the box, banshee is currently an add-on but is due to be out-of-the-box in natty
[20:35] <ebroder> and i think gbrainy is the other mono app included by default
[20:36] <deyaert> okay
[20:37] <deyaert> if you want to develop for example
[20:37] <deyaert> a cross platform installation
[20:37] <cjwatson> Ubuntu is full of stuff that is not distributed out of the box, though
[20:37] <deyaert> is there a way that the ubuntu team whould pick up the application
[20:37] <deyaert> and supply it by default?
[20:37] <cjwatson> maybe, although that's not really a good place to start
[20:38] <cjwatson> the space available for things to be installed by default is *very very restricted*
[20:38] <cjwatson> I would not advise starting with that as a goal, because chances are you would be disappointed
[20:38] <cjwatson> lots of things are distributed in our repositories for later addition, though
[20:39] <cjwatson> if you want to develop applications for use on Ubuntu, there's a way to get them into extras.ubuntu.com and make them available in software-center; that's one route
[20:39] <deyaert> ok
[20:39] <deyaert> but i'm also interested to fix bugs
[20:39] <deyaert> as a hobby
[20:40] <cjwatson> that's great, we have several tens of thousands of them
[20:40] <deyaert> :-)
[20:40] <deyaert> i've taken a look at some bugs on the site
[20:40] <deyaert> but on most of them it's not mentioned the language
[20:40] <deyaert> it's not always that detailed?
[20:41] <cjwatson> almost never, that's not the way things are laid out
[20:41] <cjwatson> as folks said above - it's much better to find something that bothers you personally and that seems to be in an environment you're familiar with, fix that, and repeat
[20:42] <deyaert> that's true
[20:42] <deyaert> I think I should read some more about it then
[20:42] <cjwatson> that's certainly how I started, and I suspect that's how a lot of successful developers get started
[20:44] <cjwatson> find annoying thing that seems vaguely accessible, grab relevant source code, read until you understand where the problem is, hack until you've fixed it, clean up patch for submission, send off, polish as requested
[20:45] <deyaert> you've fixed a lot of bugs?
[20:45] <cjwatson> yes
[20:45] <ebroder> haha. cjwatson has probably fixed more bugs than everyone else in the channel put together :-P
[20:45] <deyaert> hehe
[20:46] <deyaert> yeah i'm just curious
[20:46] <deyaert> for me it's all new :-D
[20:46] <cjwatson> (I wouldn't say that ...)
[20:46] <deyaert> and what kind of bugs?
[20:46] <cjwatson> I mostly work on the installer and the boot loader
[20:46] <persia> deyaert, Best to start with something that bothers you, grab the source, and dig in.  If nothing makes sense, find something else that bothers you.  If it only makes a little sense, ask for help.
[20:46] <cjwatson> various other things on the side
[20:46] <cjwatson> what persia said
[20:47] <deyaert> ok
[20:47] <deyaert> i'll start looking for something that bothers me :-)
[20:47]  * persia learned to read and patch C++ solely from help given attempting to fix bugs in Ubuntu
[20:48] <deyaert> cjwatson, and what kind of languages are used over there
[20:51] <cjwatson> deyaert: boot loader: almost entirely C with a bit of assembly (and some scary stuff in the build system).  installer core: C and shell.  graphical installer frontend: Python.
[20:53] <deyaert> damn
[20:54] <deyaert> :-)
[21:10] <real_ate> Hi everyone! I was wondering if someone could help me with something. I've been following a bug in KDE that prevents you from switching users when you have GDM enabled
[21:10] <real_ate> the bug has been fixed in trunk and i've done a patch that "backports" the bugfix into the version that is in 10.04 LTS
[21:11] <real_ate> ... my question is... what do I do now? what is the "correct" process for getting a patch into ubuntu LTS when you don't need to file a new bug (cos its fixed already)
[21:12] <ebroder> !sru | real_ate
[21:16] <real_ate> ebroder: thank you for the information
[21:18] <real_ate> Looking at it... it seems like the bug that I'm trying to fix doesn't fit into any of the catagories of a sru
[21:18] <real_ate> it seems like it is more of a backport or something
[21:18] <real_ate> I'm not sure
[21:19] <ebroder> real_ate: so it's probably not a severe regression, but is the patch "obviously safe"?
[21:19] <real_ate> can someone give me their opinon on the matter? the bug, I don't think that it has an ubuntu launchpad bug, can be seen here: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=186198
[21:19] <persia> real_ate, For backports, we generally like to use the latest upstream (which may include a fix), but we don't much like it for bugfixes, unless there are also new features.
[21:19] <persia> !backports
[21:20] <persia> that ought say useful things about the guidelines for when something is backportable.
[21:20] <ebroder> oh boy...that's a non-trivial change
[21:20] <real_ate> ebroder: i would tend to agree
[21:20] <ebroder> 1 file changed, 184 insertions(+), 13 deletions(-)
[21:21] <persia> Might be one of those things that's only fixed in the future.  There's a fair number of those (else nobody would ever upgrade)
[21:21] <real_ate> :P
[21:21] <persia> ebroder, diffstat and impact are only very loosely related :)
[21:21] <real_ate> but i supose one could say that this is a major regression
[21:22] <ebroder> persia: yeah, i know that. i looked at the actual patch, too. it doesn't pass my triviality filter
[21:22] <real_ate> but it is a very old regression, from when Gnome/GDM updated to use the dbus ConsoleKit for session management
[21:22] <real_ate> KDE can't: shutdown, restart, hybernate, switch users, suspend
[21:22] <real_ate> when GDM is active, but it used to be able to
[21:23] <ebroder> but only if you're using KDE + GDM, right? KDE + KDM works?
[21:23] <real_ate> yes but Gnome + KDM doesn't
[21:23] <real_ate> so you will never be able to switch users where those users use different Desktop environments
[21:23] <ScottK> real_ate: What version of KDM was it fixed in upstream?
[21:23] <real_ate> ... but you used to be able to
[21:23] <real_ate> ScottK: it is in trunk so effectivly 4.6
[21:24] <real_ate> ScottK: but I have made a patch that applies to 4.5... not very many changes to the commited bug fix
[21:24] <real_ate> and i've tested it
[21:24] <ScottK> I see.
[21:24] <ScottK> Why don't you join #kubuntu-devel and discuss it with us there.
[21:25] <real_ate> i think that problem with the bug fix diff is that the whitespace changed a lot and it wouldn't apply correctly
[21:25] <real_ate> ScottK: will do
[21:39] <ebroder> cjwatson: it's deliberate that grub doesn't ship any files in /boot, right? so should i stash the gfxpayload {white,black}lists somewhere else and copy them somewhere in grub-mkconfig?
[21:48] <kees> uhm, so what is going on here?
[21:48] <kees> pkgstripfiles: processing control file: debian/apparmor-profiles/DEBIAN/control, package apparmor-profiles, directory debian/apparmor-profiles
[21:48] <kees> .. removing usr/share/doc/apparmor-profiles/changelog.Debian.gz
[21:48] <kees> and then I get lintian errors that changelog.Debian.gz is missing
[21:48] <ebroder> kees: that's part of https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/performance-desktop-n-install-footprint
[21:49] <ebroder> there should probably be a WI to patch out that lintian check
[21:49] <kees> I guess it's possible that already happened; I'm running a maverick lintian, but yeah, figured that was what was happening. :)
[21:50]  * micahg wonders if this is only for seeded packages or for all of them
[21:50] <ebroder> i believe it's for all packages
[21:50] <RAOF> It would seem to be unusefully difficult to restrict it to just seeded packages.
[21:51] <kees> as long as I'm here...
[21:51] <kees> drop perl dependency from apparmor-utils:
[21:51] <micahg> RAOF: well, if there is a point to having changelogs in a package, it would make sense to have them in the 15k+ packages not on the CDs
[21:51] <ebroder> kees: perl, not perl-base
[21:51] <kees> it's using ${perl:Depends}
[21:51] <kees> right, but I'm not explicitly depending on perl
[21:52] <ebroder> kees: i don't know, but i'm guessing it's because you're using a module that's not on perl-base?
[21:53] <ebroder> the fallback solution we discussed was splitting some more core modules into separate packages instead of "perl" being monolithic
[21:53] <kees> ebroder: yeah, so I guess they need adjustment, not apparmor-utils
[21:53] <kees> libterm-readkey-perl, librpc-xml-perl
[21:53] <RAOF> micahg: I'm not suggesting that changelogs are unuseful, just that they're not useful enough to add extra effort to a large class of packaging.  I also understand that part of the spec is to make the changelogs easily gettable, although you're probably more up on that.
[21:54]  * micahg remembers something about that as well
[21:54] <ebroder> RAOF, micahg: yeah - pitti is adding an apt-changelog script that pulls from changelogs.ubuntu.com
[21:55]  * ajmitch wonders if there'll be an easy way to grab & store changelogs at install time
[21:55] <micahg> ebroder: the only risk with that is getting a changelog for a newer version of the package than you have
[21:55]  * RAOF wonders again why aptitude can't be polished up to be default.
[21:55] <micahg> RAOF: IIRC, that's not why it's gone, but rather apt-get has reached the maturity where it can be the default
[21:55] <RAOF> micahg: Have you checked out aptitude's behaviour there?  It grabs the changelog for the version you've got installed.
[21:56] <ebroder> i haven't looked at pitti's script, but that seems like easy logic to add
[21:56]  * micahg should try that by forcing a package in -updates back to the release version and see what happens
[21:59] <hallyn> recent libc update in natty changed some defines from int to uint64_t.  Is there guidance for what to do about usersapce which breaks on those?
[21:59] <hallyn> do i make it #include stdint.h?
[22:01] <hallyn> (obviously I could just hack something up, but...)
[22:07] <persia> micahg, ajmitch: I was told that the job to put all the changelogs for all the packages ever uploaded into librarian started running a couple days ago.  It will take a bit to run, but once it completes, we ought be able to pull changelogs via the LP API.  Adding this to the various package management front-ends shouldn't be too hard (and someone should make sure that's part of the work to be done for changelogs).
[22:07] <persia> (all the changelogs for all the packages uploaded during the maverick cycle already got stuck in librarian, as well as all the packages being uploaded now, and some of the packages from lucid)
[22:08] <micahg> persia: so it won't be whatever is current on c.u.c, but rather the actual version, that's good
[22:08] <ebroder> micahg: you know c.u.c has ~all the versions ever, right?
[22:08] <ebroder> it's not just one version
[22:08] <ajmitch> persia: that's good to know
[22:08] <persia> Ideally.  There's still work to be done.  All the LP coding I've seen done on it was unfunded development.
[22:08] <micahg> ebroder: orly?
[22:08] <persia> ebroder, It doesn't (but it has most of them).
[22:08] <ebroder> it certainly has all the recent ones, no?
[22:09] <persia> ebroder, Specifically, it has all the versions that were in the a.u.c pool during any of the times the spider script ran.
[22:09] <ebroder> oh, it's not triggered by the publishing process? that's unfortunate
[22:09] <persia> No.  Upload a package.  Upload a new revision for the next publisher run.  Time this to be between spider runs.  Notice the package never get caught by the spider.
[22:09] <persia> It's external to LP.
[22:09] <micahg> indeed...
[22:09] <persia> I think the spider runs every 4 hours, but it might be 6.
[22:10] <ebroder> i'd be skeptical of using the LP API because of speed, though. even if it's just getting a referral to the librarian
[22:10] <persia> Talk to lifeless.  he's been making LP fast.
[22:11] <ajmitch> and if you only need to make one API call to get a set of changelogs for packages, it shouldn't be too bad
[22:11] <persia> I think someone still needs to do the export-to-API bit for that, so if you have an idea for a good interface, you might want to do the first implementation, before a bad interface happens :)
[22:12]  * persia trusts most API exporters to have sane interfaces, but suspects everyone thinks a little differently
[22:14] <persia> Heh.  Really, LP coding isn't that scary :)
[22:15] <ajmitch> sure it isn't :P
[22:18] <ebroder> well...i'm glad i only mucked with my grub config in a vm
[22:21] <ari-tczew> Archive Admins: could you remove package dssi from blacklist? (new upstream release synced, blacklist due to different md5sums no longer necessary)
[22:23] <micahg> ari-tczew: you might want to file a bug and subscribe ubuntu-archvie
[22:23] <micahg> *archive
[22:25] <BUGabundo> evening
[23:15]  * SpamapS only just now noticed that the chromium-browser packages in ubuntu and debian seem to have diverged or were never from the same place
[23:39] <real_ate> where do you nominate a bug fix for a release in launchpad?
[23:39] <real_ate> I can't see it
[23:39]  * real_ate is kinda tired
[23:40] <persia> There ought be a "Nominate for Release" button.
[23:40] <persia> (also, most of the bug manipulation masters hang out in #ubuntu-bugs)
[23:40] <real_ate> persia: do you have an example bug that has that button?
[23:40] <real_ate> :D
[23:41] <persia> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/alsa-driver/+bug/671178 has it (and happens to be the last bug I opened)
[23:42] <real_ate> persia: i don't see the button!
[23:42]  * real_ate might be blind!!
[23:45] <yofel> iirc that button is bug-control restricted since recently
[23:46] <real_ate> yofel: so that means only some people are able to set it?
[23:47]  * persia continues in -bugs


[01:15] <bitsbam> how do i get the printer admin from the terminal ( am not using xfce4 )
[01:18] <poe> The BEID software doesn't work from Xubuntu. Probably is this because the software package is not updated since september 2008.
[01:20] <poe> There is a new version since september 2008 available on the official BEID site. Is there anyone who can update this package for the Belgian identity card ? It now says the ROOT certificate is invalid of the new ID cards.
[01:37] <Camtheguitarist> help please
[01:37]  * Camtheguitarist needs to connect xubuntu to the internet but can't figure out how
[01:43] <Camtheguitarist> ??
[01:58] <frank_l> i have installed xubuntu on a stylistic 3400 tablet, how can i enable the stylus pen feature?
[01:59] <frank_l> anyone?
[02:31] <fortunev> I am running fluxbox as my WM. Whenever I try to restart the window manager Ctrl+Alt+Backslash my system crashes. I did not experience this using xfce. Any ideas how I can fix this for fluxbox?
[02:32] <fortunev> additionally /etc/init.d/gdm stop works but /etc/init.d/gdm start crashes
[03:18] <shane_> does anyone have any idea about xp black edition as just a game machine
[03:54] <minazo> I just moved to a new ISP (we're on ASDL). The Windows machines run fine on the home network but my xubuntu machine "locks up" (keyboard will not do anything/mouse no good) *only* after I leave the machine idle for around 15- 30 minutes. I have to "hardboot" everytime it freezes up. Is this more of a network issue? Is there anything that Xbuntu might not "like" about an ADSL connection?  This is a weird problem. I just don't uderstand why something l
[04:38] <ephak> hello
[04:41] <minazo> hi
[05:02] <micahg1> Is it possible to hav e dual monitors in xubuntu?
[06:55] <jens_tinfors> Hi, I just wanted to point out that the download link on http://xubuntu.org/news/jaunty/beta is pointing to nil
[06:55] <jens_tinfors> the last part of the URL should probably be 'rc' and not 'beta'
[07:06] <jens_tinfors> ..or perhaps the news is old, the beta is gone and a news article about the rc should be written :)
[07:07] <jens_tinfors> anyho, just thought I'd let you know. Looking forward to 9.04! :)
[08:16] <Kasm279> hello, everyone
[08:17] <Kasm279> this is more of a general linux question, but how do i connect to a networked printer?
[08:21] <Kasm279> hello?
[08:22] <BSE> hi
[08:23] <Kasm279> hello
[08:24] <Kasm279> this is more of a general linux question, but how do i connect to a networked printer?
[11:28] <sunshine> Is it possible to already dist-upgrade to 9.04 rc?
[11:29] <BSE> i think it is
[11:29] <sunshine> or is it better to wait until it is released?
[11:30] <BSE> I am waiting for last batch of bugfixes :P
[11:31] <sunshine> ok then i will let the others do the testing work and just upgrade a few weeks in the future ;-)
[11:32] <BSE> well... release is in four days, no need to wait few weeks :)
[11:32] <BSE> I think that most bugs will be squished until then
[11:33] <BSE> [but I am new to the linux/xubuntu, so not much experience with brand new versions :)]
[11:35] <sunshine> mostly a hard way those transitions never really worked over here. So i prefer rolling release distros, but this is the laptop of my girlfriend and xubuntu does nedd less administrative action
[11:39] <sunshine> bye
[12:00] <denuze> hi everybody!
[12:01] <denuze> how can i  add a full repository  list?
[12:01] <denuze> now i searched for unetbootin package but couldn't find. i'd like to add repository for all available apps
[13:39] <rent0n> hi
[14:20] <Ruadh> Hi all
[14:23] <gabkdlly1> Ruadh: hi
[14:30] <co0gy> i have xubuntu 7.10 installed but am having trouble getting my wireless working. How do you set up wlan0
[15:43] <craigbass1976> Just fired up compiz, according to tut found here: http://xubuntublog.wordpress.com/2007/12/09/xubuntu-compiz-pretty-pretty-xubuntu/#comment-3445  While there will be quite a bit of tweaking to make this work for me, my initial problem is that my application title/menu bars (with the close minimize and maximize buttons) is gone.  How do I turn them back on?
[15:46] <craigbass1976> Ahh, window decoration was off
[16:56] <n2diy>
[17:37] <ShackJack> HI all - I'm a bit lost with Xubuntu sessions... It keeps starting programs (and AWN twice) despite me checking off don't save, etc... in settings... any tips on how to stop this behaviour?
[17:37] <charlie-tca> delete the ~/.cache
[17:38] <ShackJack> Thanks charlie-tca will try it out :)
[17:47] <ShackJack> My Xubuntu is still disregarding my settings for startup programs... starting AWN twice... starting settings dialog even though removed from sessions and saved, etc...
[17:48] <charlie-tca> settings dialog is part of xfce, if it didn't start, neither will the desktop
[17:49] <ShackJack> No, the actual settings xfce4-session-settings, etc...
[17:49] <charlie-tca> You mean it opens when you log in?
[17:49] <ShackJack> Yeah like the preference dialing as well as other proggies I told it not to..
[17:50] <charlie-tca> and they are closed when you log out?
[17:50] <ShackJack> I should just be able to go to session & starup prefs.. session tab, set what programs there and select "Save" no?...
[17:50] <ShackJack> Yes they were closed...
[17:51] <ShackJack> I don't where it's getting AWN twice from...
[17:51] <charlie-tca> If you do not have "save desktop" checked when logging out
[17:52] <ShackJack> Right..
[17:55] <ShackJack> Bleech... that just bites :(
[17:56] <charlie-tca> There is a second place you have to uncheck save settings on logout, I am looking for it
[17:56] <ShackJack> There's one in the dialog box on logout and one in xfce-session-settings - not sure where else...
[17:58] <charlie-tca> "Session and Startup", first tab, is unchecked?
[17:58] <ShackJack> "General" - yes... "Save session on logout"
[17:58] <charlie-tca> I would say file a bug on it. We can send it to xfce.
[17:59] <charlie-tca> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs
[17:59] <ShackJack> back..
[18:00] <charlie-tca> Maybe it is time to file a bug on it. I can't reproduce it myself. Or you can ask in #xfce
[18:00] <ShackJack> O.K. thanks - not a huge deal for me... I use GNOME but wanted to mess with an alternate desktop session...
[18:01] <ShackJack> Ahh... here's the solution - sudo aptitude purge xfce4 :)
[18:01] <SiDi> i think i had this in early alphas of jaunty, from a GNOME install
[18:01] <ShackJack> Thanks for the help :)
[18:01] <charlie-tca> good luck
[18:01] <SiDi> i installed xfce and session was reopening there
[18:01] <SiDi> but with a xubuntu install it wasnt doing it
[18:02] <charlie-tca> Then it should have a bug filed against it.
[18:02] <ShackJack> Yeah it's weird, I've done everything right... Guess I'll file that bug... (or look for it)
[18:02] <charlie-tca> Unless you are not installing all the required dependencies
[18:02] <ShackJack> Dunno just goin by distro... I installed xfce4 not xubuntu-desktop
[18:03] <ShackJack> (so I wouldn't get AbiWord, et al)
[18:03] <charlie-tca> ShackJack: if you file it, attach the ~/.xsession-errors log please
[18:03] <ShackJack> Sure thing... charlie-tca
[18:09] <reuther> Hello all
[18:10] <charlie-tca> !hi | reuther
[18:12] <reuther> Thanks. Be right back dinner calling. ;)
[19:18] <reuther> Hello Again ;) I am having some issues with my xubuntu  laptop and after consulting the ubuntu/xubuntu forums and google I am still no closer to resolving my issues. I could really use some tender loving care. Any takers?
[19:20] <J_Litewski> ask waya reuther
[19:20] <charlie-tca> reuther: Please ask your question, all on one line, and if anyone knows how to help, they will.
[19:21] <reuther> Gotcha. 1. no sound. Worked out of the box and quit about a month in. error codes still audible.
[19:25] <reuther> System is an IBM thinkpad r50e
[19:39] <DiecastMessiah> hailz
[19:41] <DiecastMessiah> anyone here using xfce with both kde and gnome programs?
[19:46] <DiecastMessiah> there is a program i want to install .. but i need kde-config and i cannot find just that in synaptic .. and install the KDE base will install tons of software i don't want to install
[19:51] <DiecastMessiah> is there one that would just install the kde back-end i may need instead
[19:53] <DiecastMessiah> anyone?
[20:02] <DiecastMessiah> well i guess i on my own this time around later
[20:11] <r_a_f> hello\\
[20:11] <Slonkie> !hi | r_a_f
[20:12] <r_a_f> i must press F5 to see what file i deleted 2sec ago
[20:12] <r_a_f> on desktop % thunar too
[20:12] <r_a_f> what to do to auto refresh
[20:15] <stdio> hi all
[20:18] <stdio> i have 3 xubuntu desktops in my house and 1 ubuntu server ... i want to have centerlyz user authantication like a domain is it posible ?
[20:18] <stdio> please ?
[20:22] <knome> !ldap
[20:30] <r_a_f> i have problem - when i delete file this file still is visible unti i press F5 in thunar and on desktop
[20:31] <knome> r_a_f, even if it is visible, it is already deleted
[20:32] <r_a_f> yes
[20:32] <knome> r_a_f, there seems to be something wrong with the refresing, though
[20:32] <knome> JPohlmann, you here?
[20:32] <JPohlmann> Sort of
[20:33] <knome> do you know this bug ^ ?
[20:33] <r_a_f> knome: ok now i nstall xfce-desktop , before i install only xfce4 - maybe there are no all needed files
[20:33] <r_a_f> knome: search google - but havent sloution yet
[20:34] <JPohlmann> r_a_f: Do you have FAM/Gamin installed?
[20:35] <r_a_f> i haved gamin - i installed fam but same
[20:36] <r_a_f> sorry - when i installed fam - system removed all xfce lol
[20:36] <stdio> thanks a lot to you all !! :)
[20:36] <stdio> i am reading on OpenLDAP right now
[20:36] <JPohlmann> Mh, okay. Well, with gamin file system monitoring should just work.
[20:37] <JPohlmann> Unless you're in /proc for instance. That's not monitored.
[20:43] <Slonkie> Anybody knows of an application which can copy an directory + sub-directories automaticly when i plug in a certain USB-stick?
[21:14] <etank> should there be a (non-cli) way of rebooting / shutting down from the desktop in xubuntu jaunty?
[21:26]  * genii does    sudo telinit 0                  and  sudo shutdown now
[22:31] <ephak> i need help with video player that was installed with xubuntu.  i installed it last night and when i play full screen viddeos it lags severely and cpu is at 100% usage
[22:42] <zoredache> what cpu are you running?
[22:43] <zoredache> have you tried installing and using a different player like vlc?
[23:02] <zsakr> Is there a bench marking program for Linux that I can install. I wanna give the xubuntu 9.04 w/ext4 fs a going over with one?
[23:04] <Sniper606> The xubuntu 9.04 release candidate with the ext4 file system is absolutely amazing. It works so perfect and its blazingly fast! Does anyone know of a good bench marking program I can install to give it a good test?
[23:06] <Dante123> hi all, for some weird reason (after kids were on my computer) whenever I try to maximize a window it doesnt actually maximize it.  It does get bigger but only fills half the screen.  Any ideas what the little beggars might have done???
[23:07] <knome> Dante123, settings -> workspaces -> margins?
[23:08] <melkart> you have witty kids
[23:08] <knome> good night.
[23:09] <zoredache> zsakr: look at bonnie++
[23:09] <zoredache> !info bonnie++
[23:23] <Dante123> it is working now, thanks
[23:54] <Sniper606> I have 2 gigs of ram, is 3 gigs of swap enough?
[23:55] <zoredache> Sniper606: sure
[23:56] <zoredache> some might argue more then enough, but extra won't hurt you
[23:56] <Sniper606> so far I havent been able to do anything on my pc to make it even have to use the swap space


[14:38] <meena> holmanb: is there any way to construct the default home_dir in FreeBSD to be /home in FreeBSD 14.0+?
[15:32] <ShaneAH> Hello, all.  Hoping to get some guidance on Jinja templates with cloud-init 22.1 on RedHat 8.  I have a template that I'm putting in /etc/cloud/cloud.cfg.d. However when it runs I get a parse error, however if I remove the file from the cfg.d folder and execute it with --format it produces the correct output.
[15:32] <ShaneAH> Here is a simplified template to illustrate the problem.
[15:32] <ShaneAH> ## template: jinja
[15:32] <ShaneAH> #cloud-init
[15:32] <ShaneAH> runcmd:
[15:32] <ShaneAH> {{ ds.meta_data.imds.compute.tagsList | selectattr('name', 'equalto', 'domain') | list }}
[15:32] <ShaneAH> Executing with a template in cloud.cfg.d
[15:32] <ShaneAH> sudo cloud-init query --format="$( cat /etc/cloud/cloud.cfg.d/02-resolv-conf.cfg )"
[15:32] <ShaneAH> WARNING: Failed loading yaml blob. Invalid format at line 5 column 1: "while scanning a simple key
[15:32] <ShaneAH>   in "<unicode string>", line 5, column 1:
[15:32] <ShaneAH>     {{ ds.meta_data.imds.compute.tag ...
[15:32] <ShaneAH>     ^
[15:32] <ShaneAH> could not find expected ':'
[15:32] <ShaneAH>   in "<unicode string>", line 6, column 1:
[15:32] <ShaneAH>     ^"
[15:32] <ShaneAH> ## template: jinja
[15:32] <ShaneAH> #cloud-init
[15:32] <ShaneAH> runcmd:
[15:41] <minimal> ShaneAH: "#cloud-init" ? that should be "#cloud-config"
[15:43] <ShaneAH> Great catch, I can change that but the same code works on Suse15 with cloud-init 23
[15:45] <ShaneAH> changed to cloud-config, same error
[18:49] <falcojr> meena: FYI, holmanb is out this week and I don't know the answer to your question
[18:54] <falcojr> ShaneAH: Jinja templating in /etc/cloud/* wasn't a feature until 22.4.
[19:26] <ShaneAH> Nuts, missed it by that much!!
[22:50] <minimal> I'm seeing strange output when packaging cloud-init git main but don't see this with 23.3: https://tpaste.us/papW
[22:54] <minimal> this seems to be referring to the contents of the sysvinit/freebsd/*.tmpl and systemd/*.tmpl files
[23:27] <meena> minimal: why would your packaging for Alpine touch those paths?
[23:29] <minimal> my packaging doesn't
[23:31] <minimal> this is when "python3 -m pytest" and "python3 setup.py install" are run
[23:31] <minimal> note the line at the top is the final result of the testing portion
[23:32] <minimal> so this seems to be generated when "python3 setup.py install" is run
[23:37] <minimal> to be more precise, this is what is run:  python3 setup.py install --prefix=/usr --root="<packaging directory>" --init-system=sysvinit_openrc


[07:26] <smb> xnox, you should. those have been around a while. linux-image-extra are the modules that should not be part of virtual. Basicall the virtual meta package only depends on headers and linux-image. while the generic meta package depends on all three. Still in the end the kernel you get via linux-virtual is the same as linux-generic. Simple, isn't it?
[12:58] <Mirv> CONFIG_ARM64_VA_BITS=48 is causing us some pain bug #1630906, is that unreversable change in wily -> xenial kernel for arm64?
[12:58] <Mirv> we have a potential fix from Qt upstream but there are new test failures still on tests that used to pass before LP people upgraded arm64 builders to the 4.4 kernel