[15:32] <slyon> o/
[15:32] <eslerm_> good morning o/
[15:33] <joalif> o/
[15:33] <sarnold> good morning
[15:33] <slyon> looks like c_paelzer is out today..
[15:33] <slyon> #startmeeting Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status
[15:33] <meetingology> Meeting started at 15:33:54 UTC.  The chair is slyon.  Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
[15:33] <meetingology> Available commands: action, commands, idea, info, link, nick
[15:34] <slyon> Ping for MIR meeting - didrocks joalif slyon sarnold c_paelzer jamespage eslerm
[15:34] <slyon> #topic current component mismatches
[15:34] <slyon> Mission: Identify required actions and spread the load among the teams
[15:34] <slyon> #link https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches-proposed.svg
[15:34] <slyon> #link https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.svg
[15:34] <slyon> this is looking pretty good IMO! c-m release is the smalles I've ever seen \o/
[15:34] <slyon> c-m-p:
[15:34] <sarnold> woo!
[15:35] <didrocks> o/
[15:35] <slyon> devscripts and licensecheck have been handed out to collegues of mine in Foundations
[15:35] <slyon> netplan is making some progress (I think we could be promoting mdurl): bug #2002818
[15:35] -ubottu:#ubuntu-meeting- Bug 2002818 in mdurl (Ubuntu) "[MIR] mdurl" [Undecided, Fix Committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2002818
[15:35] <slyon> didrocks: ^ could you take care of this?
[15:36] <slyon> everything else seems known/in progress to me..
[15:36] <didrocks> sure, will do, but probably not before next meeting
[15:36] <slyon> ACK
[15:37] <slyon> #topic New MIRs
[15:37] <slyon> Mission: ensure to assign all incoming reviews for fast processing
[15:37] <slyon> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-date_last_updated&field.status%3Alist=NEW&field.status%3Alist=CONFIRMED&assignee_option=none&field.assignee=&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir
[15:37] <didrocks> (sorry, just read it’s only about promoting and not doing another pass, will handle quickly now)
[15:37] <slyon> thanks, even better
[15:38] <slyon> bug #1997560
[15:38] -ubottu:#ubuntu-meeting- Bug 1997560 in libcamera (Ubuntu) "[MIR] libcamera" [Undecided, New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1997560
[15:39] <sarnold> I think that might 'just' be in the wrong spot in the flowchart
[15:39] <slyon> we got some good security review on this one. It's back to the desktop team to handle any requested changes and re-apply for MIR
[15:39] <didrocks> so should be incomplete
[15:39] <slyon> sarnold: I agree, but what's the status this should be in? I guess incomplete and assigned to the desktop team.
[15:40] <didrocks> +1
[15:40] <slyon> done.
[15:40] <slyon> bug #2006464
[15:40] -ubottu:#ubuntu-meeting- Bug 2006464 in ruby-nio4r (Ubuntu) "[MIR] Promote ruby-nio4r to main as a pcs indirect dependency" [Undecided, New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2006464
[15:41] <slyon> also got security review. should be incomplete and back to kanashiro[m]
[15:41] <slyon> done.
[15:41] <eslerm_> per libcamera, usually Security sets the status to In Progress after our review, which was not done here
[15:41] <slyon> bug #2003259
[15:41] -ubottu:#ubuntu-meeting- Bug 2003259 in libppd (Ubuntu) "[MIR] libcupsfilters libppd cups-browsed" [High, New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2003259
[15:42] <slyon> eslerm_: that's fine. we have this meeting to get everything lined up correctly
[15:42] <didrocks> I guess up to security for the 3 of them while the rest of the issues are tackled by the desktop team
[15:42] <slyon> ack. already assigned to ubuntu-security and vanished from our "new MIRs" list.
[15:43] <slyon> so no actionable MIRs for review this week \o/
[15:43] <didrocks> yeah, you were in between I was finishing up the MIR feedback post :)
[15:43] <slyon> #topic Incomplete bugs / questions
[15:43] <slyon> Mission: Identify required actions and spread the load among the teams
[15:43] <slyon> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-date_last_updated&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir
[15:43]  * sarnold pokes launchpad
[15:43] <slyon> bug #2003259
[15:43] -ubottu:#ubuntu-meeting- Bug 2003259 in libppd (Ubuntu) "[MIR] libcupsfilters libppd cups-browsed" [High, New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2003259
[15:44] <slyon> got its MIR review, back to vpa1977
[15:44] <didrocks> yeah, the 3 of them are now done
[15:44] <sarnold> paste fail?>
[15:44] <didrocks> I hope that wasn’t a mfa :p
[15:44] <slyon> oop. bug #2004516 that is
[15:44] -ubottu:#ubuntu-meeting- Bug 2004516 in libyuv (Ubuntu) "[MIR] libyuv (transitive dependency of libheif)" [Undecided, Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2004516
[15:46] <slyon> bug #2007279
[15:46] -ubottu:#ubuntu-meeting- Bug 2007279 in devscripts (Ubuntu) "[MIR] libdigest-md5-file-perl & libswitch-perl (dependency of devscripts)" [Undecided, Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2007279
[15:46] <slyon> tracking updates. this is being handled by collegues of mine, soon. as stated before
[15:46] <slyon> bug #2003272
[15:46] -ubottu:#ubuntu-meeting- Bug 2003272 in cpdb-backend-file (Ubuntu) "[MIR] cpdb-backend-file" [Undecided, Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2003272
[15:47] <sarnold> this was kicked back to till for updates
[15:47] <slyon> didrocks: requested changes from till
[15:47] <slyon> bug #2003083
[15:47] -ubottu:#ubuntu-meeting- Bug 2003083 in libstring-license-perl (Ubuntu) "[MIR] libstring-license-perl" [Undecided, Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2003083
[15:47] <slyon> was picked for this pulse IIRC, should be started soon
[15:47] <slyon> bug #1997560
[15:47] -ubottu:#ubuntu-meeting- Bug 1997560 in libcamera (Ubuntu) "[MIR] libcamera" [Undecided, Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1997560
[15:48] <slyon> we discussed this already before
[15:48] <slyon> back to desktop team
[15:48] <slyon> same with bug #2006464 (back to reporter)
[15:48] -ubottu:#ubuntu-meeting- Bug 2006464 in ruby-nio4r (Ubuntu) "[MIR] Promote ruby-nio4r to main as a pcs indirect dependency" [Undecided, Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2006464
[15:48] <slyon> that's the list
[15:48] <slyon> #topic MIR related Security Review Queue
[15:48] <slyon> Mission: Check on progress, do deadlines seem doable?
[15:48] <slyon> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-security/+bugs?field.searchtext=%5BMIR%5D&assignee_option=choose&field.assignee=ubuntu-security&field.bug_reporter=&field.bug_commenter=&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir
[15:49] <slyon> thank you very much sarnold, eslerm_ and team. I feel like we've seen some continued efforts to drive down the sec-review queues! Kudos
[15:49] <slyon> sarnold: any status update you want to give?
[15:49] <eslerm_> thanks :D
[15:49] <slyon> #link https://warthogs.atlassian.net/jira/software/c/projects/SEC/boards/594
[15:49] <eslerm_> markdown-it-py may be finished today (in review)
[15:50] <sarnold> slyon: thanks :) it's been feeling much better lately; I've got duktape in progress, but interviews and meetings may mean it doesn't finish before the feature freeze
[15:50] <slyon> nice!
[15:50] <eslerm_> that would complete netplan.io MIRs
[15:50] <sarnold> I suspect we won't start the printing packages until after feature freeze
[15:50] <didrocks> sarnold: seeing how late that was posted in the cycle, I feel it’s fair
[15:50] <slyon> ack.
[15:51] <eslerm_> I will likely assign myself pcs today and puma is being worked on, that would complete all pcs reqs. Likely will need a FFe though
[15:51] <sarnold> didrocks: thanks; it just seemed important enough to at least state it clearly
[15:51] <slyon> cool that will make the server team very happy!
[15:51] <sarnold> eslerm_: awesome :)
[15:51] <slyon> eslerm_: One thing I'd like you to have a look at is my latest comment on here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rich/+bug/2003570/comments/7
[15:51] -ubottu:#ubuntu-meeting- Launchpad bug 2003570 in rich (Ubuntu) "[MIR] rich" [Undecided, In Progress]
[15:52] <slyon> how strong is your opinion on the explicit "dh-python" dependency, as it has been rejected by the Debian maintainer
[15:52] <slyon> We'd need to introduce delta to make that happen
[15:52] <slyon> I guess we can also discuss this in the next topic
[15:52] <slyon> #topic Any other business?
[15:53] <didrocks> no business for me :)
[15:53] <sarnold> nothing from me
[15:53] <eslerm_> I'm flex on dh-python--I'll discuss with sarnold
[15:54] <slyon> thanks. Please update the bug report accordingly once you have consensus. Then we (foundations) can follow up and potentially get this promoted
[15:54] <eslerm_> can do
[15:54] <slyon> Cool.
[15:54] <slyon> I guess that's all then today.
[15:54] <slyon> have a good day!
[15:54] <sarnold> thanks slyon, all :)
[15:54] <didrocks> thanks sarnold, all!
[15:54] <eslerm_> \o/ thanks slyon, bye all
[15:54] <slyon> #endmeeting
[15:54] <meetingology> Meeting ended at 15:54:57 UTC.  Minutes at https://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2023/ubuntu-meeting.2023-02-21-15.33.moin.txt


[08:33] <kalikiana_> TheReaperKing1: I'd recommend to use the snap store for any new software.
[11:42] <daker> kalikiana_: hi, do you have a simple working example to create a model with two prop from sqlite entries using c++ ?
[13:15] <kalikiana_> daker: Using the QSqlDatabase API? Or U1DB? Can you perhaps give me some more details?
[13:16] <daker> kalikiana_: using QSqlDatabase
[13:17] <daker> i already i have the sql part, i just need how to create the model using c++
[13:20] <kalikiana_> daker: QSqlDatabase db(QSqlDatabase::addDatabase("QSQLITE", "mydb")); if (db.isValid()) { db.setDatabaseName("mydb.db");if (db.open()) { ... } }
[13:20] <kalikiana_> You'll want to check db.lastError() in the else paths
[13:22] <kalikiana_> for the actual query: QSqlQuery query(db.exec()); query.prepare("SELECT FOO FROM BAR BLABLA"); if (query.exec()) { ... } else db.lastError()
[13:30] <daker> kalikiana_: i mean i already have this setup, I queried the records, i need to create a qml model with, insert objects of those records and make the model available in qml
[13:32] <kalikiana_> daker: In that case sql has nothing to do with it, you'll want to learn how qml models work
[13:32] <kalikiana_> Lemme see what's a good example
[13:33] <daker> kalikiana_: a working example would really help, thanks!
[13:33] <kalikiana_> daker: Perhaps src/UbuntuToolkit/sortfiltermodel.cpp it's a really slim wrapper around an existing model that doesn't support C++
[13:34] <kalikiana_> in lp:ubuntu-ui-toolkit/staging
[13:35] <daker> kalikiana_: ok i'll check it
[13:36] <kalikiana_> daker: Most importantly get and roleNames. The count() method is optional but usually nice to have in QML
[15:29] <TheReaperKing1> Thank you kalikiana_  It is has been on there a few years now, is the snap store still applicable for it? I'll have to look into it
[15:30] <TheReaperKing1> ohh that seems super interesting
[15:30] <TheReaperKing1> I'd love to just even edit the description in the app store to lead people to the working file
[15:58] <kalikiana_> TheReaperKing1: it's much simpler indeed. and no review required (for most apps)
[16:00] <TheReaperKing1> Do you know if there is a way I can change the description in the app store?
[16:00] <TheReaperKing1> I've sent messages to the guy who posted it for us but I haven't gotten a response
[16:00] <TheReaperKing1> I hate having something posted so publicly that isn't working properly
[16:10] <kalikiana_> I can't really help much with the old one I'm afraid
[16:11] <kalikiana_> Of course the low-tech solution is to just post a comment/review with the new details
[22:11] <TheReaperKing1> I haven't figured out how to comment, I did try though
[22:11] <TheReaperKing1> if I do it from the ubuntu app store it times out
[22:12] <TheReaperKing1> aka the login prompt that pops up times out
[22:13] <TheReaperKing1> I didn't see a way to do it from the webpage
[22:13] <TheReaperKing1> and thank you for your help with all of this


[15:02] <Snicers-Work2> Good morning.
[21:42] <w0jrl> 	hello
[21:43] <w0jrl> Has anyone gog experience with e164.org?
[21:43] <w0jrl> *got*


[15:45] <akgraner> Hey y'all!  We are finally back in our house! :-)
[15:45] <Nivex> \o/
[15:46] <akgraner> Y'all are all invited :-)
[15:46] <akgraner> global jam at the graner's :-)
[15:46] <Nivex> rawk
[15:46] <akgraner> (hmm I might should as pete and the kids if they mind)
[15:46] <akgraner> ;-)
[15:47] <Nivex> once it gets warm just set up one of those big tents and a couple of port-a-pots out in the back yard :)
[15:47] <akgraner> nods
[15:47] <akgraner> geeknic at the graner's
[15:47] <akgraner> ohhh I like that idea even more
[15:48] <Nivex> it even has some alliterative properties :)
[15:48] <Nivex> my small group has started planning our SELF 2011 roadtrip
[16:10] <holstein> akgraner: CONGRATS :)
[16:10] <akgraner> holstein, thanks!
[16:10] <akgraner> when you playing at Barley's again
[16:10] <akgraner> Becca will be there Wednesday night
[16:10] <holstein> you guys have totally earned some boring relaxing downtime :)
[16:11] <holstein> akgraner: COOL, i dont have anything on the book right now
[16:11] <holstein> but i will
[16:11] <holstein> i played there this weekend
[16:11] <akgraner> dang we were enjoying some boring downtime
[16:11] <akgraner> sorry about that we should have come out and listened to you play
[16:11] <holstein> akgraner: no worries
[16:22] <BugeyeD> holstein: can you tell when folks are listening to your streams? i've done it a few times; it's sometimes hard to get anything out of it with the kids around though, so i haven't done it much.
[16:22] <BugeyeD> my aunt has a plaque in her house that reads something like this:
[16:22] <BugeyeD> living with small children is like being nibbled to DEATH by ducks.
[16:23] <holstein> BugeyeD: if i remember
[16:23] <holstein> i can look and see the peak listeners
[16:23] <holstein> and current listeners
[16:23] <holstein> i usually just close it down though
[16:23] <holstein> i think i might need to go with ustream or justinTV
[16:23] <holstein> something with video
[16:23] <BugeyeD> akgraner: congratulations! i'm certain that's a relief for you guys. i simply cannot imagine going through what you did, and i'm happy that you made it through.
[16:24] <holstein> the rig i have now is all opensource though
[16:24] <BugeyeD> i like that fact
[16:24] <holstein> me too :)
[16:24] <BugeyeD> i have no room for that kind of thing in my current life, but it definitely interests me
[16:24] <holstein> AND, i could do video with it
[16:24] <holstein> pretty sure i dont have the bandwidth here though
[16:24] <holstein> i could keep it open
[16:25] <holstein> and run it on a VPS or something
[16:25] <holstein> we'll see
[16:25] <holstein> ustream is easy though
[16:25] <holstein> depends on what my target is really
[16:25] <holstein> if its us, then what im doing is fine
[16:25] <holstein> but, ustream would be more accessible
[16:25] <holstein> and understandable
[16:26] <holstein> to other OS users i think
[16:26] <holstein> i think its great that i post a link, and IE probably chokes on it ;)
[16:26] <holstein> and hangs
[16:27] <holstein> but, i want to be more open in as many ways as possible
[16:27] <holstein> and if that means using ustream, than i probably should
[16:27] <holstein> and the social integration is handy


[02:14] <qheolet> how many bots has this channel?
[07:37] <mighty_aboba> I installed xfce 4.10 from Xubuntu ppa and all is okey)
[07:37] <mighty_aboba> If someone want to install new xfce
[09:49] <plotino> hi everybody
[09:50] <plotino> i was wondering why ubuntustudio dont let me update single program as hydrogen?
[10:32] <plotino> hi again
[10:32] <plotino> same question
[10:32] <plotino> i was wondering why ubuntustudio dont let me update single program as hydrogen?
[10:52] <astraljava> plotino: Can you describe your problem more accurately? Like pastebin your attempts to upgrade in terminal?
[11:10] <plotino> in synaptic the choiche to update the packet is grey out. No chance to update
[11:10] <plotino> i would likr to update only some packets and not the entire distro
[13:37] <astraljava> plotino: Hmm... well if you're up-to-date with the packages, then it just means there is no newer option available for that release. Only certain versions are supported for certain releases.
[13:38] <astraljava> plotino: Your only option would be to see whether there's a newer version in -backports.
[14:32] <holstein> for the record, "ubuntustudio" is not keeping you from doing that plotino
[14:32] <holstein> you can build the latest version of whatever you choose and use it
[15:13] <mighty_aboba> Len-dt, Hi)
[15:14] <mighty_aboba> What DAW do you use for your work?
[15:15] <holstein> ardour is the main one
[15:15] <holstein> qtractor is one a lot of MIDI folk use
[15:16] <holstein> openoctave is one to keep an eye on
[15:22] <mighty_aboba> wow, openoctave
[15:22] <mighty_aboba> first time i hear about this
[15:22] <mighty_aboba> is it a daw?
[15:24] <mighty_aboba> sorry, i know English is not good
[15:24] <mighty_aboba> what is "to keep an eye on" mean?
[15:38] <mighty_aboba> ok, i understand what is "to keep an eye on" mean))))
[15:39] <mighty_aboba> Do you used openoctave?
[15:40] <holstein> mighty_aboba: nop
[15:40] <holstein> e
[15:41] <holstein> theres #openoctave though... seems like a good project to watch
[15:48] <mighty_aboba> okey, thanx
[15:48] <mighty_aboba> very interesting project
[15:48] <qheolet> yes very interesting
[15:49] <qheolet> i send to a freiend of mine that compose and have a mini studio
[15:54] <plotino> so
[15:54] <plotino> i have tried
[15:54] <plotino> apt-get install rosegarden
[15:54] <plotino> it says prrgram is at the last version available
[15:55] <plotino> it is 10.02
[15:55] <plotino> while in the rosegarden website the last stable is 11.11
[16:01] <holstein> plotino: 10.04?
[16:01] <holstein> plotino: whats the overall issue?
[16:02] <holstein> plotino: i would say, try and not change the versions too much... its part of the convinience of ubuntu that you can really break and get into trouble with
[16:02] <plotino> im using unbuntu studio 10.4
[16:02] <holstein> plotino: 10.04?
[16:02] <plotino> ok
[16:02] <holstein> plotino: i am as well
[16:02] <holstein> plotino: try 12.04 live if you'd like
[16:02] <holstein> plotino: that is long term support as well, and i plan to upgrade soon
[16:03] <plotino> but for example if i enable the jack transportation in rosegardeg it fails to start correctly
[16:03] <holstein> plotino: but you dont know that that is because of the versioning
[16:03] <plotino> exactly
[16:03] <holstein> plotino: i usually open synaptic and "force" an ealier version
[16:03] <plotino> but maybe similar bug should be fixed bt new versions ..
[16:04] <holstein> plotino: you can try 12.04 live and see, without changing your current install
[16:04] <holstein> you can see if the newer versions have any effect
[16:04] <holstein> otherwise, it could just be a known bug that you are fighting to work around, that will just now work
[16:04] <holstein> not work*
[16:04] <holstein> ardour3 has midi support
[16:04] <holstein> qtractor is what most folk use instead of rosegarden these days
[16:07] <plotino> rosegarden is bad for you?
[16:08] <holstein> plotino: i dont use sequencers much
[16:08] <holstein> plotino: you can ask in #opensourcemusicians
[16:08] <holstein> im literally speaking from experience and what i see in that channel
[16:08] <holstein> most folks use qtractor
[16:09] <plotino> ok
[16:09] <holstein> theres no features in RG that would make me pull my hair out trying to use it
[16:09] <holstein> i would just use one of the many other midi sequencers
[16:10] <holstein> the one in ardour 3 being top of the list, since it will be the big one that most folks will be using
[18:36] <jonasmu> hola
[18:50] <qheolet> hola
[18:59] <astraljava> aloha
[19:01] <qheolet> Aloha!
[19:01] <qheolet> Astral Java!!!
[19:10] <qheolet> /con/com
[19:10] <qheolet> /con/con


 security.ubuntu.com seems to be down, at least for me.
 security.ubuntu.com is giving a 503 error, at least for me. (edited)
 security.ubuntu.com is giving a 503: Service Unavailable error ('No server is available to handle this request.'), at least for me. (edited)
 Internal Canonical engineers are on it, thanks. (re @rs2009: security.ubuntu.com is giving a 503: Service Unavailable error ('No server is available to handle this request.'), at least for me.)
 Okay Alan, thanks. (re @popeydc: Internal Canonical engineers are on it, thanks.)
 The ca-certificates problem has been fixed
 does this affect teh 404 Not Found some are getting on security.u.c still for bionic and such?
 (reports still flowing via Ask Ubuntu)
 The ca-certs? No. That's in hirsute. I doubt it (re @teward001: does this affect teh 404 Not Found some are getting on security.u.c still for bionic and such?)
 It's prob just a typical reboot of the servers or something small
 Will probably be fixed quickly
 👍
 what was teh ca-certs problem if i may ask
 (bug # works)
 https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=974059


[00:21] <Cheri703> Just as a heads up: I'm told that Lubuntu is looking for an accessibility liaison, there are plans to mail the list. some guy in my LoCo who knew I'm on the accessibility team mentioned it. :)
[00:50] <TheMuso> Cheri703: Thanks.
[00:50] <Cheri703> yep :)
[23:14] <maco> http://is.gd/vnPvog   <-- Ubuntu user experience survey
[23:20] <maco> (not the same as the advertising survey)


[03:52] <wlach> is there anything I can do to get some attention to an easy-to-fix bug (just apply a pre-existing patch that has been in use by Fedora for >1 year) in Ubuntu? It would be great to see this fixed in time for the next version: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xchat/+bug/912392
[03:52] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 912392 in xchat "Please include upstream libnotify fix into package" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[03:57] <bryce> wlach, yeah I can take a look
[03:57] <bryce> wlach, but not before next week
[03:58] <bryce> wlach, btw for reference, in general if you *attach* the patch to the bug rather than mention a link to it, that tends to get it on people's radars better
[03:59] <bryce> since launchpad then flags it as a patch, which gets it into the sponsoring review queue
[03:59] <wlach> bryce: I can easily do that, since I created a patched package myself a day ago :)
[03:59] <wlach> bryce: there's no rush, I just wanted to make sure it got attention ...
[04:01] <bryce> wlach, if you know how to create debdiffs, attaching a debdiff is a *really* good way to get it some attention, since those tend to get even higher priority in the sponsor queue
[04:02] <wlach> bryce: oh cool, I didn't know that, no
[04:02] <wlach> It's been a long time since I've messed with debian packaging but I'm sure I can learn
[04:02] <wlach> relearn that is
[04:03] <bryce> wlach, cool!  well welcome :-)
[04:04] <wlach> bryce: Can't promise I'll show up *too* often as I have lots of stuff on the go. ;-) this particular issue just happened to be driving me crazy enough to motivate me to go into #gnome-shell and debug it with the help of some of the developers there
[04:05] <wlach> but this is good to know for future reference
[04:05] <bryce> wlach, yep
[06:33] <BigWhale> God Morning.
[06:33] <BigWhale> Good
[20:32] <chrisccoulson> desrt, does calling g_settings_new result in an AddMatch message being sent over the session bus? (eg, "type='signal',interface='ca.desrt.dconf.Writer',path='/ca/desrt/dconf/Writer/user',arg0path='/system/proxy/'")
[20:38] <desrt> yes
[20:38] <desrt> asynchronously so
[20:38] <chrisccoulson> desrt, ah, that will be why thunderbird is spamming my session bus with millions of these messages
[20:39] <chrisccoulson> it does this every time it creates a new http channel, to check the proxy settings
[20:39] <chrisccoulson> we should probably cache these :)
[20:39] <desrt> sounds reasonable, indeed :)
[20:42] <chrisccoulson> thunderbird is also haemorrhaging memory whilst it's doing this too :(
[20:42] <chrisccoulson> that's going to be fun to debug
[20:55] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, i think i'm going to have to rebuild thunderbird to turn off jemalloc :(


[02:44] <DanaG> Odd, I just installed a libglademm update, and now the things give me a DIFFERENT error.
[02:44] <DanaG> pavucontrol: symbol lookup error: pavucontrol: undefined symbol: _ZN5Gnome5Glade3Xml18get_widget_checkedERKN4Glib7ustringEm
[02:50] <h1st0> did they update gaim to pidgin in gusty?
[02:53] <wfarr> h1st0, yeah
[03:58] <crimsun> I should write a Qt 4 version of pavucontrol
[03:59] <RAOF> You should fix the interaction with pulseaudio and alsa's volume when there's only one mixer first :P
[04:00] <crimsun> that's an intractable problem.  I think I've explained it?
[04:00] <RAOF> Yeah, you have.
[04:01] <RAOF> Is it really intractable, though?  Couldn't you work around it?
[04:01] <RAOF> Alternatively, is it possible to fix the alsa driver :/
[04:02] <crimsun> well, I could softvol the current softvol.
[04:03] <crimsun> which basically means I break all sorts of other things to attempt to give an extra Master
[04:03] <RAOF> Ah, right.
[04:03] <crimsun> I'm going to take the "wimp" route and say, "the mixer interface is slated for redesign anyhow - it'll be fixed then."
[04:03] <RAOF> Is it?  Awesome.
[04:05] <RAOF> Man, I should have more time.  Then I could fix all the stuff I find annoying.
[04:09] <illusions> what is the kernel version for 7.04?
[04:09] <crimsun> 2.6.20.
[04:10] <crimsun> not sure why you're asking in this channel, though, which is for gutsy (7.10)...
[04:11] <illusions> I asked in #ubuntu and Jordan told me to come here?
[04:11] <illusions> Jordan_U
[04:13] <crimsun> right, that was an utter misdirection.
[04:22] <illusions> Hmmm, I have been looking at multiple sources for how to install the Dell1390 (Broadcom) wireless adapter. I've noticed that some sources have replacing the wireless drivers installed with ones from a newer kernel version. Is there anyway I can install this without ndiswrapper?
[04:23] <crimsun> bcm43xx works - to some degree - in gutsy's 2.6.22-6.13
[04:23] <crimsun> I had a good experience with it until it randomly stopped loading the firmware
[04:23] <crimsun> after that, I sadly reverted to ndiswrapper
[04:24] <ajmorris_> ajmorris
[04:24] <crimsun> yes, that's you.
[04:24] <illusions> Hmmm, I was just wondering. I'm a new linux user, coming from windows (of course) and I played with Redhat Fedora Core 6 and that picked up everything perfectly. I just wanted to try Unbuntu and see what that is like.
[04:25] <ajmorris_> oops lol, testing msgs... sorry all
[04:25] <crimsun> gutsy's bcm43xx driver is leaps and bounds better than feisty's
[04:27] <illusions> what is the newest kernel availible for Feisty?
[04:29] <crimsun> 2.6.20-16.29
[04:29] <crimsun> you need to address #ubuntu
[04:29] <crimsun> these feisty questions are being asked in the wrong channel.  Please see the topic of this IRC channel.
[04:29] <illusions> oh ok, thanks!
[05:47] <ajmorris_> anyone have the feisty tuxfamily.org compiz fusion repos working on gutsy here?
[05:57] <RAOF> ajmorris_: Any particular reason you're not testing Gutsy's Compiz+Fusion?
[05:59] <ajmorris_> it doesn't work properly
[06:00] <RAOF> And you've filed bugs?
[06:00] <ajmorris_> no, lol
[06:00] <RAOF> Then why are you running Gutsy?
[06:01] <ajmorris_> to file bugs for things other than FX
[06:01] <ajmorris_> i get no error outputs anyway, so my reports would be somewhat useless
[06:02] <RAOF> Run at a terminal?  ~/.xsession-errors?
[06:02] <ajmorris_> none...
[06:02] <ajmorris_> the errors are just....
[06:02] <ajmorris_> things that won't work...
[06:02] <ajmorris_> like been able to change the minimise effects etc.
[06:03] <ajmorris_> there are no shell outputs and no errors in logs
[06:03] <RAOF> It still sounds like a reasonable bug to file.
[06:04] <RAOF> Worst case: Amaranth asks you for more info :)
[06:04] <ajmorris_> ok, i will do it then...
[06:04] <ajmorris_> what is the 'normal' bug report site... the non-launchpad one?
[06:04] <Amaranth> err
[06:04] <Amaranth> launchpad is where you file ubuntu bugs
[06:04] <RAOF> You mean, the upstream bugzilla for compiz or fusion?
[06:04] <ajmorris_> bugzilla that's the one
[06:05] <Amaranth> don't file bugs in fusion's bugzilla
[06:05] <ajmorris_> oh kk
[06:05] <Amaranth> file bugs against ubuntu's packages in launchpad
[06:05] <ajmorris_> i usually file in launchpad anyway
[06:05] <ajmorris_> thanks :)
[06:05] <Amaranth> that way i can check to see if it's my bug or a fusion/compiz bug and do the right thing from there
[06:06] <Amaranth> yay 2 more critical bugs filed against compiz are closed
[06:06] <Amaranth> down to 2 left and they're really libwnck bugs
[06:06] <Amaranth> but still critical for the composite-by-default spec so i'm leaving them so they don't get lost
[06:06] <crimsun> critical: compiz doesn't (un)tie my shoelaces.
[06:07] <crimsun> incomplete: (of course I'm wearing sandals, so I don't have shoelaces)
[06:12] -ChanServ(ChanServ@services.)- You do not have channel operator access to [#ubuntu-boot]
[06:12] -ChanServ(ChanServ@services.)- [#ubuntu-server]  Ubuntu Server Discussions (development and support)
[06:12] -ChanServ(ChanServ@services.)- [#ubuntu-ops]  Welcome to #ubuntu-ops - Home of the operators for official K/X/Ed/Ubuntu channels. Questions, requests and complaints about Ubuntu related channels and their people can be filed here"
[06:13] -ChanServ(ChanServ@services.)- [#ubuntu+1]  Please read the topic. Especially if things are broken!
[06:13] (Amaranth/#ubuntu+1) so compiz has two critical bugs and five high bugs
[06:13] (Amaranth/#ubuntu+1) yay
[06:13] (Amaranth/#ubuntu+1) getting lower :)
[06:17] <pwnguin> network manager refuses to work with my ipw3495 chipset unless i toggle the wireless switch off and on again
[06:17] <pwnguin> =/
[06:18] <RAOF> Cool.  Today network manager decided to segfault on vpn connect for me :/
[06:18] <RAOF> But it otherwise works with my ipw3945
[06:19] <Amaranth> lately network manager also thinks it has a wired connection and ignores me wireless
[06:19] <Amaranth> i blame avahi
[06:20] <RAOF> Yeah, nm is a bit broke right now :)
[06:25] <crimsun> works great here!
[06:25] <DanaG> Same for me, except after resume from suspend.  Oh, wait -- suspend is broken.  Nevermind.
[06:26] <DanaG> But NetworkManager doesn't seem to deal well with the wireless switch removing and re-adding eth1 -- it still sees the interface.
[07:36] <bur[n] er_> anyone know if X is dead on intel 965's for some reason?
[07:44] <DanaG> Cool the new pavucontrol and paman are there.
[07:44] <RAOF> What's new?
[07:45] <DanaG> Fixed error.
[07:47] <crimsun> libglademm2.4 broke ABI & API without any associated bump.
[07:47] <RAOF> wicked.
[07:48] <crimsun> this means that _every single app linking against libglademm-2.4-1c2a needs a rebuild
[07:48] <crimsun> it's darned beautiful I could kill a kitten
[07:48] <RAOF> Urgh.
[07:52] <DanaG> Needs one of those "Every time you <do that>, God kills a kitten." images.
[08:33] <johnnybuoy> what do you guys use for devboxes?
[08:34] <johnnybuoy> I mean, if you use virtualization for that purpose..
[08:34] <RAOF> I use my Core2 laptop.
[08:34] <RAOF> And virtualisation only to run the i386 version of Gutsy :)
[08:35] <johnnybuoy> yes
[08:35] <johnnybuoy> and what virtualization do you use?
[08:35] <RAOF> Oh, kvm.  I'll fix it tonight :)
[08:35] <johnnybuoy> ?
[08:36] <johnnybuoy> so kvm is fast?
[08:36] <RAOF> Yes.
[08:36] <johnnybuoy> I just tried it on feisty and it's slower than qemu...
[08:36] <DanaG> You must not have the module enabled, or something.
[08:36] <johnnybuoy> though I have a core2duo with VT
[08:36] <RAOF> Did you actually have your appropriate kvm module loaded?
[08:36] <johnnybuoy> kvm_intel
[08:36] <johnnybuoy> yes
[08:37] <johnnybuoy> and I'm member of the kvm group.
[08:37] <RAOF> Then you're seeing something that I don't.  qemu is slow for me, kvm is near native speed.
[08:37] <johnnybuoy> wow
[08:37] <johnnybuoy> hmm..
[08:37] <RAOF> (The graphics is what slows it down, I think)
[08:37] <johnnybuoy> ah...mayB
[08:38] <johnnybuoy> hmm...
[08:38] <johnnybuoy> dunno, I'd really like to be able to run xen, but there is no easy way to do that...
[08:38] <johnnybuoy> they say xen is the best atm..
[08:38] <DanaG> Oh, except Win 3.11 to make people ask "Why?".
[08:38] <johnnybuoy> you use gutsy as main system?
[08:39] <johnnybuoy> heh
[08:39] <DanaG> Yup.
[08:39] <johnnybuoy> fun..
[08:39] <DanaG> I do bleeding-edge software, but not bleeding-edge hardware.
[08:39] <johnnybuoy> at least you aren't bored..
[08:39] <johnnybuoy> :)
[08:39] <johnnybuoy> hi, coNP
[08:40] <coNP> hey johnnybuoy
[08:40] <DanaG> big bug: https://launchpad.net/bugs/121833
[08:40] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 121833 in linux-source-2.6.22 "LCD backlight turns off when at idle or on battery." [Undecided,New]
[08:40] <johnnybuoy> DanaG, isn't that the new gpm?
[08:40] <johnnybuoy> the idle timeout or whatever
[08:40] <DanaG> I attached it to both.
[08:40] <DanaG> gpm and kernel.
[08:40] <DanaG> oh yeah, g-p-m should be hyphenated -- gpm already exists.
[08:41] <johnnybuoy> I actually thing the idle LCD dimming is a great feature
[08:41] <DanaG> Look at the report.
[08:41] <johnnybuoy> kk
[08:41] <DanaG> I changed my idle brightness and battery brightness so it no longer turns entirely off,
[08:41] <johnnybuoy> yes
[08:41] <johnnybuoy> that is definitely an issue
[08:41] <johnnybuoy> it jumps, blinks when changing the brightness
[08:42] <DanaG> but now on dim-on-idle I get 100%<OFF>75%<OFF>50%<OFF>25%
[08:42] <johnnybuoy> I can confirm that one.
[08:42] <DanaG> er, s/dim/battery/.
[08:42] <DanaG> er, Imean s/idle/battery/
[08:42] <johnnybuoy> s/battery/dim/idle/battery ??
[08:42] <DanaG> I screwed my sentence up twice.  I meant dim-on-battery.
[08:43] <johnnybuoy> yep
[08:43] <johnnybuoy> I can confirm the brightness changing thing
[08:43] <johnnybuoy> the two should be related, no?
[08:43] <DanaG> This is confusing on battery: "dim display brightness BY" -- it's subtracted from 100.
[08:44] <DanaG> *BLINK*BLINK*BLINK*
[08:44] <johnnybuoy> heh
[08:46] <DanaG> It was even more amusing when my power socket was wonky: the AC power would go on----off----on---off---on---off
[08:46] <DanaG> so I got BLINKBLINKBLINKBLINKBLINKBLINKBLINK
[08:46] <johnnybuoy> haha
[08:46] <johnnybuoy> lol
[08:46] <johnnybuoy> pfff
[08:47] <johnnybuoy> tough luck!
[08:47] <DanaG>
[08:47] <johnnybuoy> okay, I confirmed...
[08:47] <johnnybuoy> wow
[08:47] <DanaG> Nice unicode.
[08:47] <johnnybuoy> yeah...
[08:47] <johnnybuoy> how'd you do that?
[08:47] <DanaG> I was looking around in gucharmap and found successive rising bars.
[08:48] <DanaG> Just one is
[08:48] <DanaG> I mean, just one set of all levels.
[08:48] <johnnybuoy> wow, that's nice... :)
[08:48] <pwnguin> heh, it looks like question marks to me ;)
[08:48] <DanaG> Good for debugging things in code, or even for OSDs.
[08:49] <pwnguin> guess terminus isnt a unicode font ;)
[08:50] <pwnguin> is that the new one from redhat?
[08:51] <DanaG> Who needs Cleartype?  I use the default packages, and enable subpixel hinting -- and set my DPI correctly.
[08:51] <johnnybuoy> how does one know the dpi?
[08:51] <coNP> that is in fact from Red Hat
[08:52] <pwnguin> johnnybuoy: measure the screen, calculate the resolution
[08:52] <pwnguin> dpi is dots per inch
[08:53] <DanaG> google for "javascript dpi"
[08:53] <johnnybuoy> okay
[08:53] <pwnguin> johnnybuoy: my firefox is only using 80 megs
[08:53] <johnnybuoy> "only"
[08:54] <johnnybuoy> it's only a browser, man, not an OS :D
[08:54] <pwnguin> well, i've got some browser sync stuff and adblock
[08:54] <johnnybuoy> adblock + tmp + session manager
[08:54] <johnnybuoy> + 7 tabs open
[08:54] <johnnybuoy> 130 megs right now
[08:55] <johnnybuoy> that's way too much
[08:55] <pwnguin> check about:cache
[08:55] <johnnybuoy> how do I change my DPI?
[08:55] <pwnguin> johnnybuoy: relating to fonts?
[08:56] <coNP> johnnybuoy: you can either change your display or your screen resolution
[08:56] <pwnguin> go to fonts->details
[08:56] <johnnybuoy> wow, gnome has an option for it in font settings
[08:56] <johnnybuoy> :)
[08:56] <DanaG> adblock plus + tab mix plus + stealther (yay) + ie tab (when in windows) + "MR Tech Local Install" + Searchbar Autosizer + Link Alert + Go Up +BugMeNot
[08:56] <pwnguin> but you might want to change it system wide
[08:56] <pwnguin> rather than gnome specifically
[08:56] <johnnybuoy> woo
[08:56] <johnnybuoy> my fonts became HUGE
[08:56] <DanaG> cat /var/log/Xorg.0.log -- it may already have the right setting.
[08:57] <DanaG> Now reduce the numeric font size.
[08:57] <pwnguin> you should probably leave it at 10 if it's already there...
[08:57] <johnnybuoy> I acn't read the stuff is broken
[08:57] <johnnybuoy> can't see half of what's going up
[08:58] <johnnybuoy> cr*p
[08:58] <DanaG> That shouldn't have broken things.
[08:59] <johnnybuoy> fonts do look better now :)
[08:59] <johnnybuoy> it was on 96dpi when my display has 120 :)
[08:59] <pwnguin> ah
[08:59] <johnnybuoy> thanks guys
[09:00] <pwnguin> johnnybuoy: xorg.conf also has a dpi setting somewhere
[09:00] <DanaG> oops, I bumped something.
[09:00] <johnnybuoy> hmm..
[09:00] <DanaG> Oh yeah, that's another reason to use Linux: DPI scaling WORKS.
[09:00] <DanaG>  /my display is 98x99DPI.
[09:01] <DanaG> (--) NVIDIA(0): DPI set to (98, 99); computed from "UseEdidDpi" X config
[09:01] <pwnguin> heh
[09:01] <pwnguin> i wonder if thats right
[09:01] <johnnybuoy> okay, idk how to set dpi in xorg.conf
[09:02] <pwnguin> wish i could remember the command to display the edid stuff
[09:05] <pwnguin> edid stuff breaks
[09:05] <pwnguin> a lot
[09:07] <DanaG> Oh, another odd thing about brightness: the gnome OSD does NOT show up for hotkeys.
[09:09] <johnnybuoy> for you it doesnt
[09:09] <johnnybuoy> for me it does
[09:09] <RAOF> Doesn't for me, too.
[09:09] <johnnybuoy> at least when I last used gutsy (4days ago) it did
[09:09] <johnnybuoy> dell 640m
[09:10] <johnnybuoy> DanaG, xdpyinfo | grep dimension
[09:10] <johnnybuoy> xrandr --query
[09:10] <DanaG> dimensions:    1440x900 pixels (373x231 millimeters)
[09:10] <johnnybuoy> U2?
[09:11] <johnnybuoy> DanaG, what machine is that?
[09:11] <DanaG> 17" notebook.  Gateway M685.
[09:11] <johnnybuoy> oh, the mm is different here...
[09:11] <johnnybuoy> dimensions:    1440x900 pixels (302x191 millimeters)
[09:11] <johnnybuoy> 14,1"
[09:12] <DanaG> aah.
[09:15] <johnnybuoy> i have no clue what the xorg.conf settinf for dpi is
[09:16] <johnnybuoy> I guess I'll leave it to gnome
[09:20] <johnnybuoy> heh, I have the right setting in X, gnome was wrong
[09:20] <johnnybuoy> x is smart at times...
[09:31] <DanaG> e'er?
[09:33] <Pumpernickel> err'r?
[09:36] <DanaG> TheGoodShepherd left the room (quit: "How did the Irish poet say it, hmm? "E'er friend for today, is tomorrow's heartbreak."").
[09:37] <Pumpernickel> Yeah, I saw.
[11:50] <Zenton> hi all
[11:50] <Zenton> has gutsy persistence?
[12:21] <Zenton> I answer myself: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCDPersistence
[12:21] <Zenton> seems gutsy does not have persistence
[12:34] <MacSlow> Greetings everybody!
[01:22] <OldPink> Hi
[03:18] <shirish> does anybody have any idea when FF3 binaries are going to hit the repos. ?
[04:13] <mhb> hi, what do you suggest as the least painful way to upgrade from Feisty->Gutsy right now?
[04:14] <mhb> == has anyone tried dist-upgrading?
[04:14] <Hobbsee> mhb: try it.
[04:17] <mhb> Hobbsee: did you dist-upgrade?
[04:17] <Hobbsee> nto recently
[04:44] <jussi01> Hobbsee: when did you say tribe 2 was coming out?
[04:44] <Hobbsee> jussi01: couple of days
[04:45] <jussi01> ok...
[04:45] <Hobbsee> jussi01: i'm committing a change to kubuntu-desktop, so the cds will need spinning after that
[04:45] <jussi01> so waiting for that is the best idea?
[04:45] <Hobbsee> jussi01: there's a critical adept bug though, so kubuntu's blocked a bit
[04:45] <Hobbsee> yeah
[04:45] <jussi01> ok :D
[04:57] <bur[n] er> hello, I used to use hte i810 driver in Feisty, in Gutsy, i notice this has been replaced by "intel" and i'm curious if there's anything special I have to do.  I've tried with both the i810 and intel in the driver line.  Both make X fail.
[05:32] <terlmann> is it safe to upgrade to gutsy yet ?
[05:32] <terlmann> I mean'
[05:33] <terlmann> from feisty , is it usable by a user with a ati r_200  , sempteron , pata disks , and ethernet ?
[05:34] <Hobbsee> terlmann: usable, sure.  most days, at least.
[05:34] <Hobbsee> terlmann: if you need a working system, all the time, then you should wait
[05:35] <terlmann> I dont
[05:35] <terlmann> is there a simple way to do it ?
[05:35] <terlmann> (upgrade)
[05:41] <terlmann> I did it , nver mind
[06:39] <chadeldridge> does anyone know if 7.10 will have better support for laptops using external monitors ?
[06:42] <DanaG> Where's the option to auto-run scripts at amarok startup?
[06:42] <DanaG> It seems to have disappeared.
[08:31] <sparr> making my biggest update to gutsy so far
[08:31] <sparr> wish me luck
[08:35] <movi> im trying to find compiz-fusion repos for gutsy
[08:36] <movi> and also, is network-manager fixed now (nm-applet segfaulted a couple of days ago, and gnome-keyring seemed to be broken too)
[09:23] <RxDx> how can i enable the unstable actualizations on Feisty? like Kernel, Gnome, Pidgin... everything beta..
[10:22] <bipolar> has anyone else experianced massive gtk breakage?
[10:22] <bipolar> missing symbols and such
[10:23] <tormod> bipolar: no
[10:24] <bipolar> hmm....
[10:24] <coNP> no restart yet
[10:24] <coNP> but I expect some
[10:24] <bipolar> somthing is majorly wrong here
[10:24] <bipolar> vmware player and mysql-query-browser are broken
[10:25] <bipolar> mysql-query-browser: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/libpangomm-1.4.so.1: undefined symbol: _ZN4Glib13wrap_registerEjPFPNS_10ObjectBaseEP8_GObjectE
[11:37] <thompa> does anyone know how to get network manager back? somehow I am running net mon
[11:38] <thompa> and i cant see my wireless places from any menu anymore but im on
[11:42] <thompa> anyway i  have to use knetwork manager
[11:43] <thompa> its working real well
[11:49] <gnomefreak> thompa: network manager is broken pretty bad, its being worked on so we can push tribe 2


[00:53] <jose> marcoceppi: most of the ~nicopace merges are 404'in
[01:28] <marcoceppi> jose: yeah, I'll clean those out in a hot min
[01:28] <jose> no prob, just wanted to give you a heads up :)
[01:28] <jose> thanks!


[07:18] <DanaG> say, it looks like fsck.btrfs really does not exist.
[07:18] <DanaG> There should be a symlink with that name, pointing to btrfsck.
[07:34] <DanaG> argh, ureadaead and collector bail multiple times during boot.


[15:21] <ChinnoDog> marcoceppi: Touch is dead? :-(
[16:55] <ChinnoDog> What is the future of Canonical if touch and Unity are sidelined?
[18:12] <marcoceppi> ChinnoDog: cloud, desktop, server, iot
[18:14] <ChinnoDog> marcoceppi: I thought desktop was dying and being replaced by mobile. Isn't that the entire point of Unity?
[18:15] <marcoceppi> ChinnoDog: no, unity was to converge the code base to provide a single method for producing a UI on mobile that was mobile friendly but then scale and change to be a full desktop seamlessly
[18:16] <ChinnoDog> Right. It bridges the gap. Without it Ubuntu is stuck with large screens and keyboards.
[18:19] <ChinnoDog> marcoceppi:
[18:20] <marcoceppi> Right, and that's why mobile is being sunset
[18:20] <marcoceppi> as a result, unity and mir are going with it
[18:21] <ChinnoDog> Hmm. Seems like a significant loss.
[18:57] <marcoceppi> Well, it's not trivial
[18:57] <marcoceppi> it is a bit, but it's a shift


[00:00] <Silver_Fox_> Nearly time
[00:00] <kidtp> hey : )
[00:00] <man0riaX> Heya
[00:01] <kidtp> we starting now?
[00:01] <nhandler> kidtp: In a minute or so
[00:01] <ZachK_> kidtp: soon
[00:01] <kidtp> ok
[00:01] <kidtp> are there rules?
[00:02] <duanedesign> 'lo
[00:02] <Silver_Fox_> Newcomer brings the beer kidtp  ;)
[00:02] <ZachK_> Silver_Fox_: be good foxy
[00:02] <Rocket2DMn> lol
[00:02] <kidtp> haha im a little under aged for beer
[00:02] <kidtp> im sorry lol
[00:03]  * man0riaX gives everyone beer.
[00:03] <Silver_Fox_> Sugar is also acceptable ;)
[00:03]  * ZachK_ will take the sugar...for the iced tea
[00:03] <bodhi_zazen> Who wants to run this meeting ?
[00:03] <ZachK_> bodhi_zazen: you? lol
[00:03] <malev> who is in charge?
[00:04] <Silver_Fox_> I would but apparently I'm  not here bodhi_zazen  ;)
[00:04] <ibuclaw> Hi
[00:04] <ibuclaw> 'lo team
[00:04] <ddecator> heya ibuclaw
[00:04] <ZachK_> nhandler: ping
[00:04] <ibuclaw> #startmeeting
[00:04] <MootBot> Meeting started at 18:04. The chair is ibuclaw.
[00:04] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[00:04] <ibuclaw> OK, who is here?
[00:04] <ibuclaw> o/
[00:04] <nhandler> o/
[00:04] <ddecator> o/
[00:04] <nhandler> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings
[00:04] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings
[00:04] <PabloRubianes> o/
[00:04] <swoody> o/
[00:04] <man0riaX> o/
[00:05] <Silver_Fox_> o/
[00:05]  * ZachK_ is here
[00:05] <Rocket2DMn> o/
[00:05] <duanedesign> o/
[00:05] <malev> o/
[00:05] <kidtp> what are we doing?  :(
[00:06] <ddecator> attendance
[00:06] <kidtp> o/
[00:06] <kidtp> ?
[00:06] <kidtp> sorry
[00:06] <bodhi_zazen> o?
[00:06] <bodhi_zazen> o/
[00:06] <ibuclaw> OK, what is first on the agenda?
[00:06] <bodhi_zazen> although I have to leave in 25 min or so ...
[00:07] <ibuclaw> [TOPIC] FAQ page needs attention, it is messy and difficult to read
[00:07] <MootBot> New Topic:  FAQ page needs attention, it is messy and difficult to read
[00:07] <nhandler> Doesn't look like Bodsda is here
[00:08] <nhandler> ZachK_: This would probably be another good task for the Wiki FG to work on
[00:08] <ZachK_> nhandler: ok
[00:08] <ZachK_> ibuclaw: link for that page?
[00:08] <ibuclaw> [LINK] https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Beginners/FAQ
[00:08] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Beginners/FAQ
[00:08] <ibuclaw> I presume he means that page
[00:08] <ZachK_> ibuclaw: i'll get to work on that after i finish writing a tutorial
[00:08] <ZachK_> for the forums
[00:09] <ibuclaw> which overall, feels kinda out of place compared to the rest of the /Beginners pages
[00:09] <ibuclaw> thank-you ZachK_
[00:09] <duanedesign> is anyone aware of which page it might be reffering to as (duplication)?
[00:09] <ZachK_> ibuclaw: :)
[00:09] <duanedesign> signposts
[00:10] <Rocket2DMn> much of the rest of the wiki...
[00:10] <ZachK_> Rocket2DMn: agreed
[00:10] <ZachK_> It seems like that FAQ page is pretty repetitive
[00:10] <Rocket2DMn> that page has probably been superseded by Signpost
[00:11] <duanedesign> So link to appropriatte content that exists on the wiki where possible
[00:11] <ZachK_> Rocket2DMn: think we should just delete it then?
[00:12] <ibuclaw> ZachK_, perhaps replace it with a link to another project
[00:12] <ibuclaw> ie: Ubuntu Manual
[00:12] <Rocket2DMn> if anywhere, back to the wiki homepage
[00:12] <cjohnston> o/
[00:13] <Rocket2DMn> or at least - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Signpost/Questions#help
[00:13] <ZachK_> Rocket2DMn: you wanna do that then?
[00:13] <ibuclaw> 'lo cjohnston - have something to add? Or just saying hi. :)
[00:13] <cjohnston> saying hi
[00:13] <ZachK_> Rocket2DMn: or do you want me to do it
[00:13] <ZachK_> hey cjohnston
[00:13] <cjohnston> I will have something to add to the end though..
[00:14] <Rocket2DMn> go for it ZachK_ , please check pages that link to it and either remove links or adjust accordingly
[00:14] <Rocket2DMn> i believe you know how to handle the wiki, ZachK_
[00:14] <ZachK_> Rocket2DMn: yes i do...
[00:14] <duanedesign> ;)
[00:15] <malev> so, no more FAQ?
[00:15] <nhandler> ibuclaw: You might want to give ZachK_ the [action]
[00:16] <ibuclaw> [ACTION] ZachK_ to clean up Beginners FAQ page
[00:16] <MootBot> ACTION received:  ZachK_ to clean up Beginners FAQ page
[00:16]  * ZachK_ shall do so...when he's done with his UF Tutorial
[00:16] <ZachK_> :)
[00:16] <duanedesign> malev: just take advantage of existing documentation
[00:17] <ibuclaw> I assume no objects and everyone in agreement? :)
[00:17] <ibuclaw> ZachK_, again, thank-you.
[00:17] <nhandler> ibuclaw: It is a wiki page. Anyone can edit it if necessary
[00:17] <malev> I agree!
[00:17] <malev> o/
[00:17] <ibuclaw> nhandler, true.
[00:17] <ddecator> sounds good to me
[00:17] <ZachK_> ibuclaw: no prob
[00:17] <ZachK_> ibuclaw: it's what I'm here for
[00:18] <ZachK_> I'll have a topic when everyone is done if that's ok
[00:18] <ibuclaw> OK, anything else before we move on?
[00:18] <ibuclaw> 3, 2, 1...
[00:18] <PabloRubianes> move on!
[00:18] <ibuclaw> [TOPIC] Replace VoteBot with ubottu
[00:18] <MootBot> New Topic:  Replace VoteBot with ubottu
[00:18] <ibuclaw> nhandler, you are leading this discussion...
[00:19] <bodhi_zazen> +1
[00:19] <bodhi_zazen> =)
[00:19] <ibuclaw> and yes, +1
[00:19] <ibuclaw> =)
[00:19] <ddecator> i'm honestly not sure what the differences are. i like ubottu, but i'm more familiar with it so i'm biased =p
[00:19] <nhandler> Well, the only feature from VoteBot that we actually still need are the factoids. This can be provided by ubottu
[00:19] <duanedesign> who created votebot?
[00:19] <nhandler> ubottu also adds a few other features such as fetching URLs for bugs and !info and stuff like that
[00:19] <bodhi_zazen> nhandler: are the factiods channel specific ?
[00:19] <nhandler> duanedesign: I did
[00:19] <ibuclaw> duanedesign, nhandler did
[00:20] <ddecator> +1 for bug links
[00:20] <nhandler> bodhi_zazen: They can be, but we really have no realy factoids that are not jokes
[00:20] <Rocket2DMn> bug links are nice, i use them all the time in other channels
[00:20] <Silver_Fox_> We are removing one of the more fun elements from the team ?
[00:20] <bodhi_zazen> Well, some factiods are probably best ##ubuntu-offtopic - at best
[00:20] <duanedesign> that would be my only concern. Make sure the author is ok with it.
[00:21] <duanedesign> Rocket2DMn: +1
[00:21] <ZachK_> The factoids are part of what made this team what it is IMO
[00:21] <bodhi_zazen> I would -1 migrating the factiods
[00:21] <nhandler> ZachK_: If that is the case, you have some major misconceptions of the team
[00:21] <bodhi_zazen> And I really do not want to go through them one - by -one
[00:21] <Silver_Fox_> The team is about helping ZachK_
[00:21] <ibuclaw> Rocket2DMn, does ubottu integrate bug links?
[00:21] <ddecator> ibuclaw: yes
[00:21] <ddecator> bug 1
[00:22] <ZachK_> nhandler: I'm not saying that Factoids are what the team is about...I'm saying that it just seems to me that it's what makes us a little different
[00:22] <ibuclaw> and fails spectacularly at the Bug Description... ;)
[00:22] <ddecator> ibuclaw: not normally =p
[00:23] <duanedesign> bug 554185
[00:23] <duanedesign> lol
[00:23] <ddecator> yes, so...ubottu is not making its case atm >.>
[00:23] <nhandler> ddecator: ^^^
[00:23] <duanedesign> \o/
[00:24] <Silver_Fox_> Okay, so its slow... :)
[00:24] <ddecator> also not normally, haha
[00:24] <ZachK_> At least it pulled the info down
[00:24] <nhandler> So does anyone else see any other real reason to keep VoteBot?
[00:24] <ddecator> it also has support for upstream trackers (not sure if that's a default or just in -bugs)
[00:24] <ibuclaw> ZachK_, IMO - Votebot has been deprecated in this team for quite some time.
[00:24] <nhandler> ibuclaw: Yep. It doesn't serve much use now that we are an official Ubuntu team and hold meetings in here
[00:25] <bodhi_zazen> +1 re: votebot == depreciated , lol
[00:25]  * ZachK_ agrees
[00:25] <bodhi_zazen> It was a very nice bot nhandler , thank you for making it
[00:25] <ZachK_> lol @ bodhi_zazen
[00:25] <nhandler> bodhi_zazen: Yep. It served its purpose, but now it is time to move on
[00:25] <bodhi_zazen> vote or just axe it ?
[00:26] <ibuclaw> ok
[00:26] <nhandler> bodhi_zazen: No more votes at meetings, remember
[00:26] <ddecator> i think it has the majority, haha
[00:26] <ibuclaw> how many channels still use Votebot?
[00:26] <nhandler> ibuclaw: Only the BT channels use it
[00:26] <ibuclaw> +#ubuntu-beginners-council +#ubuntu-beginners-team
[00:26] <ibuclaw> OK, so no notice is required for other teams / etc. :)
[00:26] <nhandler> ibuclaw: And all the FG channels and -beginners
[00:26] <duanedesign> #ubuntu-beginners ?
[00:27] <nhandler> ibuclaw: Nope
[00:27] <nhandler> So the council will vote on the issue, but based on the discussion, it looks like VoteBot will be leaving us soon
[00:28] <bodhi_zazen> well, we need an [ACTION] or {AGREED] , IMHO
[00:28] <nhandler> Any more comments about this topic?
[00:28] <ZachK_> nhandler: -wiki doesn't have Votebot so ya know
[00:28] <ddecator> i think we're set
[00:28] <nhandler> bodhi_zazen: Not really, this is just for discussion (like a ML discussion)
[00:29] <nhandler> The action will come based on the council's decision
[00:29] <ibuclaw> [ACTION] BT Council to vote on replacing VoteBot with ubottu
[00:29] <MootBot> ACTION received:  BT Council to vote on replacing VoteBot with ubottu
[00:30] <bodhi_zazen> TY ibuclaw
[00:30] <ibuclaw> last subject
[00:30] <ibuclaw> [TOPIC] Membership Requirements
[00:30] <MootBot> New Topic:  Membership Requirements
[00:30] <ibuclaw> nhandler, off to you again.
[00:30] <bodhi_zazen> those tags [ACTION] make the logs MUCH EASIER to review later =)
[00:30] <ddecator> ha, i was just asking swoody about this (kinda)
[00:31] <ibuclaw> bodhi_zazen, compared to .action .topic and the like?
[00:31] <nhandler> ibuclaw: MootBot picks up [ACTION]
[00:31] <nhandler> Well, I am failing to find the link. If anyone has it, please post it
[00:31] <bodhi_zazen> yes, and better then no MARKS in the LOGS
[00:31] <nhandler> But basically, paultag started working on some criteria we can use when determining whether to accept someone as a BT member
[00:32] <ZachK_> nhandler: link for?
[00:32] <nhandler> Currently, it focuses a bit too much on numbers/stats imo. But I wanted to get some feedback on what everyone thought some good criteria for being a UBT member would be
[00:32] <nhandler> ZachK_: The criteria wiki page
[00:32] <ZachK_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Membership
[00:32] <ZachK_> that it?
[00:33] <ddecator> i think having the CoC signed isn't too much to ask
[00:33] <nhandler> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Paultag/UBTCriteria
[00:33] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Paultag/UBTCriteria
[00:34] <duanedesign> I like the recommendation from someone outside of BT that is recognized in their area of the community.
[00:34] <bodhi_zazen> +1 signed CoC
[00:34] <bodhi_zazen> It is nto *that* hard to sign,
[00:34] <nhandler> The requirements on the Membership page really aren't that bad. It is the UBTCriteria page I really wanted feedback on
[00:34] <PabloRubianes> I like the changes but I don't see "Have at least one recommendation from someone outside of the Beginners Team who can attest to the quality of your contribution" a must
[00:35] <nhandler> PabloRubianes: We were trying to avoid having people who *only* participate in the UBT channels
[00:35] <nhandler> If they are working with a FG, they will be active in other parts of the community, and should be working with people outside the team
[00:35] <ddecator> so each sections applies depending on what FG a person applies for, yes?
[00:35] <PabloRubianes> nhandler: good
[00:36] <nhandler> ddecator: "applies" probably isn't the best word. They are just some criteria that can be used to judge the work a person has done in a certain area
[00:36] <nhandler> Like I said, I feel it focuses too much on #s
[00:36] <ddecator> yah, maybe it should be more like a bug-control application? email and provide links that demonstrate and understanding of how things work
[00:36] <ddecator> s/and/an
[00:37] <ZachK_> nhandler: I don't feel that a procurement of Wiki pages that the Candidate has worked on would be a good requirement as most new people don't know how to edit the wiki...I'd make it an option at the very least like, "If you have made any contribution to the Ubuntu Wiki list them here" or something
[00:37] <nhandler> ddecator: That wouldn't work as well for other areas of the community
[00:37] <nhandler> ZachK_: New people probably aren't ready to join the team. They should work with a FG until they are ready
[00:37] <swoody> how about some requirement for the IRC FG? Perhaps 2 or 3 testimonials - again from people well known in the community, inside or out of the BT
[00:38] <ZachK_> nhandler: true
[00:38] <ZachK_> nhandler: and the Wiki FG would probably be easier than most
[00:38] <ibuclaw> nhandler, so we are moving to a more close knit group then.
[00:38] <nhandler> It would be great to have the different FGs brainstorm some criteria that would be useful in evaluating the work a person has done in a certain area. Remember, it should be stuff like "The # of wiki pages edited" instead of "Edited at least X wiki pages"
[00:39] <nhandler> ibuclaw: The idea is to have some real requirements instead of just "hang around for a month and get voted in"
[00:39] <nhandler> We want to also ensure our members are qualified
[00:39] <Silver_Fox_> Are we suggesting that "You must help outside of UBT" ?
[00:39] <ZachK_> nhandler: I agree with that...
[00:39] <nhandler> Silver_Fox_: Yes. The FGs would help with that. Most of them already interact with other teams in the community
[00:39] <nhandler> i.e. Wiki FG works with the Doc Team
[00:40] <ZachK_> Silver_Fox_: well shouldn't we try to be the team that Produces people who move on to the Ubuntu community on a large scale?
[00:40] <ibuclaw> nhandler, that I can agree on. But having the FGs as an entry point onto the team? And main membership granted with merits later?
[00:40] <ddecator> true, the FG members can be members of other teams that help introduce new people to the workflow of the different areas
[00:40] <duanedesign> I think it is important that as we adopt as a part of our mission help new users not only with Ubuntu but with the community that prospective members can be new to the community.
[00:40] <ddecator> well, "members" of other teams, not that it's a requirement i suppose (unless you decide it should be)
[00:41] <ibuclaw> As opposed to main membership first ... then the *possibility* of joining an FG, *if* the member doesn't laze about.
[00:41] <PabloRubianes> one thing...
[00:41] <nhandler> duanedesign: *Prospective* members can be new to the community. But until they learn and are ready to actually help in their area of interest, they should remain *prospective*
[00:41] <Silver_Fox_> I thought the idea was for the BT to point people in the direction of the wider community,  not have it a prerequisite for joining the BT.  I saw it more of a stepping stone if you will.
[00:41] <duanedesign> nhandler: +1
[00:41] <nhandler> Silver_Fox_: The FGs are that bridge to the community
[00:42] <PabloRubianes> I think only bt member can be really part of the FG on launchpad... otherwise they recive the BTmember sign even if they are not members...
[00:43] <ZachK_> nhandler: but if you make it so that people can just join an FG and then do work in that most people won't try to attain any more that that...most want recognition for the Label...not what they themselves have actually done
[00:43] <nhandler> PabloRubianes: That is correct. But that shoul not stop them from participating with a FG
[00:43] <PabloRubianes> yes, but somewhere it must say that, on the new membership process wiki
[00:43] <nhandler>  ZachK_ If their only reason for joining the team is to say they are a member of the UBT, they probably shouldn't be a part of the team
[00:44] <duanedesign> I think there are two cases here. 1. Someone who wants to participate in the community *and* help others do this. They would be joining the team. 2. Users we help join the community but are interested in being a member and helping others do the same
[00:44] <ibuclaw> PabloRubianes, nothing official yet. This is just a proposal for a revision.
[00:44] <PabloRubianes> ok
[00:44] <duanedesign> s/are/are not
[00:46] <ZachK_> If we make it so that you can join say a part of the team but not all until you "Prove yourself" than what good is that? If a person is going to be a prospective member to the UBT make it so that they are a Prospective member to all aspects of the team..including FG's
[00:46] <nhandler> Well, it is clear more discussion is needed before any vote can take place. We should probably get the different views documented on the wiki or ML
[00:47] <nhandler> ZachK_: Well, they aren't really joining the FG. They are just working with them
[00:47] <ZachK_> nhandler: ok...just making sure of that
[00:48] <ZachK_> nhandler: personally I feel that you shouldn't be able to join one until you are a full member of the BT but that's My opinion
[00:49] <Silver_Fox_> A difference exists between joining and helping a focus group
[00:49] <nhandler> Can FGs work on updating the criteria wiki page for some good criteria to judge contributions in their respective areas? Revisions to the membership page (in a new Comments section at the bottom) would also be helpful
[00:49] <ibuclaw> Silver_Fox_, precisely
[00:49] <ZachK_> nhandler: I'll definitely do that for the Wiki Section
[00:50] <ddecator> i do think part of the membership process should involve encouraging prospective members to check out the various FGs (not require, but encourage them so they can try new things)
[00:50] <nhandler> Having the different views documented on the wiki should help the council make a decision
[00:50] <Silver_Fox_> Am I correct in understanding that it is unlikely that if someone only helps out with a FG they are not going to become full members of UBT ?
[00:50] <nhandler> Silver_Fox_: No
[00:50] <Silver_Fox_> Okay,  good :)
[00:51] <nhandler> Any more comments?
[00:51] <ddecator> none here
[00:52] <ZachK_> nhandler: I had the SoD topic if that's ok
[00:52] <bodhi_zazen> gotta run =)
[00:52] <ZachK_> nhandler: i forgot to put it on the meeting page
[00:52] <duanedesign> and today during UDS there was some discussion about the team and its role in helping people get involved in the community. Overall it was a positive response. I felt like Jono and others on the community team were willing to provide advice/input. Might be a resource we should utilize.
[00:52] <ibuclaw> bye bo^H^H^H
[00:52] <cjohnston> duanedesign: I want to talk on that tonight if we get to it before I crash
[00:52] <nhandler> Well, I'm done. ibuclaw you're up Mr. Chair
[00:54] <duanedesign> is that it for agenda items?
[00:54] <ibuclaw> Silver_Fox_, I don't think it is necessary to help out in BT to be part of this team (for example my role has changed wildly in the last 2 years) - I think the new criteria should provoke a push for FGs to get more *out there* and active in Ubuntu.
[00:54]  * nhandler -> dinner
[00:54] <ZachK_> duanedesign: I had one...
[00:55] <ibuclaw> nhandler, okies
[00:55] <Silver_Fox_> Activity should be encouraged ibuclaw :)
[00:56] <ibuclaw> [ACTION] Membership Requirements to be discussed on ML and wiki
[00:56] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Membership Requirements to be discussed on ML and wiki
[00:57] <ibuclaw> Silver_Fox_, indeed - as opposed to just dawdling ... (*cough*) That FG shame remain nameless, but I'll be poking around some time later. >:)
[00:57] <ibuclaw> ZachK_, you have a final topic?
[00:57] <ZachK_> ibuclaw: i do
[00:57] <duanedesign> so does cjohnston
[00:57] <Silver_Fox_> I have no idea to what you refer ibuclaw  ;)
[00:58] <ibuclaw> [TOPIC] Summer of Documentation Project
[00:58] <MootBot> New Topic:  Summer of Documentation Project
[00:59] <ibuclaw> ZachK_, fire away
[00:59] <ZachK_> ibuclaw: Thanks...Ok I'm sure most of you have received one or more emails from me regarding the Summer of Documentation Project...any questions on that?
[00:59] <duanedesign> I always liked the Summer of Documentation Project.
[00:59] <duanedesign> I think it is a good idea
[01:00] <ZachK_> I'm welcoming Ideas, input, and especially help
[01:00] <ddecator> i can help after i'm done with school
[01:00] <PabloRubianes> it should be called Summer/winter
[01:00] <ZachK_> The Wiki FG has been somewhat slim regarding Members.....and contributions
[01:01] <ZachK_> Any questions/ideas anyone?
[01:01] <Silver_Fox_> ZachK_,  As I said earlier,  I am happy to help with SOD again.
[01:01] <Silver_Fox_> :)
[01:01] <ZachK_> Silver_Fox_: ok join the wiki fg channel...
[01:02] <ddecator> ZachK_: a howto of sorts will help =)
[01:02] <ZachK_> ddecator: ok....good idea that
[01:02] <Silver_Fox_> ZachK_,  Has the list been updated ?
[01:02] <duanedesign> PabloRubianes: haha pablo has a point. It is winter down South. :)
[01:02] <ibuclaw> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Wiki/SoD2010
[01:02] <ZachK_> Silver_Fox_: list?
[01:02] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Wiki/SoD2010
[01:02] <ZachK_> TY ibuclaw
[01:02] <Silver_Fox_> ZachK_,  List of pages that require attention
[01:03] <Silver_Fox_> :)
[01:03] <ibuclaw> Those who wish to participate, please bookmark that. =)
[01:03] <ddecator> ZachK_: for example, i have the content almost done for the software center page (just need some more screenshots) but idk how to format the page, so i'll probably just go into a finished one and copy the formatting, but a wiki detailing everything would help
[01:03] <PabloRubianes> I think we have some new people who speak spanish arround now, so do it it in spanish is ok? Documentation in Spanish is not so good...
[01:03]  * ddecator bookmarks page
[01:04] <ZachK_> ddecator: ok I'll put a link on the Wiki FG page as there is already a wiki page with formating help on it
[01:04] <ddecator> ZachK_: but for BT pages specifically?
[01:04] <ZachK_> ddecator: the format is the same for all wiki pages...
[01:05] <ibuclaw> PabloRubianes, go for it. =)
[01:05] <ddecator> ZachK_: but i mean like the navigation area at the top of main pages that are for BT pages
[01:05] <ZachK_> ddecator: that would be the /include bt header
[01:06] <duanedesign> cjohnston: are you still with us?
[01:06] <ZachK_> ddecator: i'll tell you all about it later
[01:06] <cjohnston> yes
[01:06] <ddecator> ZachK_: well then mention it on a wiki, because i had no idea =p
[01:06] <ZachK_> ibuclaw: unless anybody else has anything more that's all i got
[01:06] <ibuclaw> ok, thank-you ZachK_
[01:06] <ZachK_> ibuclaw: yup
[01:06]  * ZachK_ out
[01:07] <ibuclaw> I'm hoping to see more members contribute this year. =)
[01:07] <duanedesign> +1
[01:07] <ZachK_> ibuclaw: as am i
[01:07] <cjohnston> Am I up?
[01:07] <ZachK_> cjohnston: yuppers
[01:07] <cjohnston> Okie...
[01:07] <cjohnston> Today at UDS we had a session on fixing this page:
[01:07] <ibuclaw> IMO - Open Source documentation is lagging behind the FAST development pace
[01:07] <cjohnston> http://www.ubuntu.com/community
[01:07] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.ubuntu.com/community
[01:07] <cjohnston> duanedesign participated remotely with us
[01:07] <ibuclaw> cjohnston, wait for it =)
[01:07] <ibuclaw> topic?
[01:08] <cjohnston> umm
[01:08] <cjohnston> UDS Community Involvement discussion
[01:08] <cjohnston> without the spelling errors
[01:09] <ibuclaw> I see none =)
[01:09] <ibuclaw> [TOPIC] UDS Community Involvement discussion
[01:09] <MootBot> New Topic:  UDS Community Involvement discussion
[01:09] <ibuclaw> take it away then.
[01:09] <cjohnston> Ok.. Today at UDS we had a session about fixing this page: http://www.ubuntu.com/community
[01:09] <cjohnston> duanedesign participated remotely with us..
[01:09] <cjohnston> I think we had some good ideas...
[01:10] <cjohnston> Currently there are a couple problems with the page..
[01:10] <cjohnston> 1) it looks old
[01:10] <cjohnston> 2) some of the pages under it arent really correct
[01:10] <ddecator> oh yah, i remember seeing this page when i was first getting involved and i wasn't sure where i was supposed to go..
[01:10] <cjohnston> so we want to redeisgn the page to 1) provide accurate information on getting involved with the community
[01:11] <cjohnston> and 2) update it to the new "light" theme of Ubuntu
[01:11] <cjohnston> We want the end result to look similar to: http://www.ubuntu.com/products/whatisubuntu/1004features
[01:11] <cjohnston> The top set of images (header image) will be pictures of people (contributors, users, etc)
[01:11] <cjohnston> under that...
[01:12] <cjohnston> Each of the "sections" that are there now will be changed to different ways to get involved
[01:12] <cjohnston> So the current browse the web could be something like Documentation
[01:12] <ibuclaw> More Human, less Tango?
[01:12] <cjohnston> yes
[01:12] <cjohnston> with a little discription of what is involved in documentation
[01:13] <cjohnston> and a link to get more info on what documentation means and how to get involed
[01:13] <cjohnston> we want to include the different ways to contribute to ubuntu
[01:13] <cjohnston> and really just make the page better
[01:13] <cjohnston> we are planning on waiting to sstart this IIRC until the new website design is relased
[01:13] <cjohnston> hopefully soon
[01:13] <cjohnston> but duanedesign and I had mentioned that since the BT is wanting to focus on helping users become contributors
[01:14] <cjohnston> this may be something good for us to help work on
[01:14] <cjohnston> I just wanted to see if any members had any interest in helping out with redoing this pagr
[01:14] <cjohnston> page
[01:14] <nhandler> I would be up for helping out
[01:14] <ibuclaw> cjohnston, so is the design on the main Ubuntu site you linked open to anyone to help out?
[01:14] <ibuclaw> [LINK] http://www.ubuntu.com/community
[01:15] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.ubuntu.com/community
[01:15] <cjohnston> and if so, we will get together with jono at some point, and go over what he is wanting from this, and bounce ideas off each other and make it happen
[01:15] <duanedesign> i think anything the team can do here would be good.
[01:15] <cjohnston> ibuclaw: we will design the new page, and then after being approved by jono, he will submit it to the proper authorities to get it changed
[01:15] <nhandler> cjohnston: I can't help with design stuff, but in terms of the content that should go on there, I can help with that
[01:15] <cjohnston> we wont be able to edit that page directly
[01:16] <ibuclaw> cjohnston, just confirming what I thought was the case, thanks.
[01:16] <nhandler> Bleh, the page links to projects, not teams :(
[01:16] <cjohnston> nhandler: that sounds good.. i think we almost more need help with the content more than the design just because ultimatly the design will have to be done by the webmaster
[01:16] <cjohnston> and the website team
[01:16] <nhandler> cjohnston: An email to the ML asking for volunteers might also be handy
[01:16] <cjohnston> but we can provide them with the mock design (working preferably) to go off
[01:16] <cjohnston> of
[01:16] <cjohnston> nhandler: sounds like a good idea
[01:16] <cjohnston> ill have to try to remember that
[01:17] <duanedesign> cjohnston: ill try and help with that ;)
[01:17] <ddecator> i can help with bugsquad related material if it's needed
[01:18] <duanedesign> here is some notes from that session. http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/community-m-improvement-ubuntu-community-pages
[01:18] <cjohnston> Ok.. so nhandler and duanedesign are interested.. I'm going to send an email to the ML at some point, hopefully soon, and solicit more help.. Like I said, it may be a litte while before the real work starts, however we could technically start gathering content now, and just put the content into place once we have the design to work off of
[01:18] <cjohnston> and ddecator
[01:18] <cjohnston> thanks duanedesign
[01:19] <duanedesign> thank you cjohnston for representing th BT at UDS
[01:19] <cjohnston> and I did put it into a gobby doc (not that it matters) afterwords
[01:19] <cjohnston> np
[01:19] <cjohnston> thanks for being there to help me with that
[01:19] <cjohnston> I had to represent a team im not even a part of earlier :-x
[01:19] <cjohnston> because they werent there but i kinda agreed with their points
[01:19] <cjohnston> but thats off topic
[01:19] <ibuclaw> IMO - I think this is a great opportunity for the team to proves themselves and give out a solid point of recognition =)
[01:19] <cjohnston> ibuclaw: absolutly
[01:19] <duanedesign> ibuclaw: +100
[01:20] <ddecator> ibuclaw: +1
[01:20] <cjohnston> as duanedesign will attest, jono had mentioned that the BT has been off his radar...
[01:20] <cjohnston> and I think this would be a great way to get the BT on his radar
[01:20] <ddecator> definitely
[01:20] <cjohnston> let him know we are hear and want to help
[01:20] <cjohnston> would you three mind sending me an email (or someone shoot me an email reminding me that the three of you are interested in helping)
[01:21] <cjohnston> im so tired ill forget
[01:21] <ibuclaw> cjohnston, I'll be keeping an eye. Not sure of much I can do to assist, but as always, time will tell.
[01:21] <ddecator> cjohnston: is your email on your lp page?
[01:21] <nhandler> cjohnston: Do you get emails when someone MemoServs you ?
[01:21] <cjohnston> and ill talk to jono tomorrow at some point and let him know that there is a definate desire for the BT to help out
[01:21] <nhandler> ddecator<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[01:21] <cjohnston> nhandler: dunno
[01:21] <cjohnston> ddecator<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[01:21] <ddecator> nhandler: thanks
[01:21] <cjohnston> if i spelled it right
[01:22] <cjohnston> jono was looking for someone to take this project because he doesnt really have time to do it himself, but it most definatly needs major work
[01:22] <cjohnston> that I think is all that I have... unless anyone else has any questions
[01:22] <cjohnston> also
[01:22] <cjohnston> does anyone have any questions/concerns that they would like me to bring up at any point with anyone
[01:22] <kermiac> sorry, still waking up - I can give ddecator a hand with bugsquad info
[01:23] <ddecator> kermiac: thanks mate
[01:23] <cjohnston> :-)
[01:24] <duanedesign> cjohnston: cant think of anything but i will be remote participating the rest of the week if anyone has anything i know where to find you :)
[01:24] <duanedesign> thanks again cjohnston
[01:24] <duanedesign> doesnt look like any oof the prospective members up for membership are here
[01:25] <cjohnston> :-)
[01:25] <nhandler> duanedesign: We should probably finalize the criteria anyway first
[01:25]  * cjohnston goes to bed
[01:25] <ibuclaw> night cjohnston
[01:25] <nhandler> Any more topics for discussion?
[01:25] <cjohnston> as it is 230a and 7a will be here quick
[01:26] <ddecator> haha, night cjohnston
[01:26] <ibuclaw> OK
[01:26]  * Silver_Fox_ should consider bed... is 01:26
[01:27] <ibuclaw> [LINK] http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/community-m-improvement-ubuntu-community-pages
[01:27] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/community-m-improvement-ubuntu-community-pages
[01:27] <ibuclaw> for anyone interested.
[01:28] <nhandler> ibuclaw: Are you going to take care of updating the Meeting page and sending minutes to the ML ?
[01:28] <duanedesign> nhandler: we have three prospective members who were in the process before adoption of the new process.
[01:28] <nhandler> Well, none of them are here, and most of the masters are missing too
[01:28] <ibuclaw> nhandler, no probs. Just direct me on what to do. =)
[01:29] <nhandler> ibuclaw: Yeah, I can help with that
[01:29] <nhandler> Shall we end the meeting then?
[01:30] <PabloRubianes> yes
[01:30] <ibuclaw> #endmeeting
[01:30] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 19:30.
[01:30] <ibuclaw> bang on the dot =)
[01:30] <pedro3005> now that's damn good timing
[01:31] <ibuclaw> Who are the proposed new members?
[01:31]  * ibuclaw gets out his quiz book
[01:40] <ibuclaw> nhandler, how do you make pages immutable?
[01:40] <ibuclaw> I presume after creation...


[02:20] <causticsand> Hello, is there a plugin or extension or something that will, after I do a search, right click to prevent that site from showing up again in my search engine?
[02:20] <causticsand> For instance, I'm looking for an owner's manual
[02:20] <causticsand> I search for it and the top I-don't-know-how-many sites say they have it, but are shopping sites to buy it
[02:21] <causticsand> I'm looking for something that allows me to just avoid certain sites that I've discovered aren't free
[02:22] <causticsand> or just aren't relavant to my search
[15:29] <chrisccoulson> bdrung, there?
[15:29] <bdrung> chrisccoulson: yes
[15:29] <chrisccoulson> bdrung, are you aware of http://blog.mozilla.com/addons/2011/08/11/strengthening-user-control-of-add-ons/ , and the implications for packaged extensions?
[15:30] <bdrung> no
[15:30] <chrisccoulson> bdrung, ah. so, basically, firefox disables system-wide extensions by default after upgrading to 8.0
[15:31] <chrisccoulson> and you need to opt in to new ones that are installed
[15:31] <bdrung> chrisccoulson: is there a way to tell firefox that the extension comes from the distribution?
[15:31] <chrisccoulson> well - "system" -> "third party"
[15:31] <chrisccoulson> bdrung, yes
[15:32] <chrisccoulson> bdrung, distribution, or bundled extensions installed in to $libdir (/usr/lib/firefox-addons/extensions on ubuntu) are exempted from the new check
[15:33] <chrisccoulson> bdrung, firefox only considers extensions installed in /usr/share/mozilla and /usr/lib/mozilla as third-party (ie, dropped in there by some evil third party application, like skype)
[15:33] <chrisccoulson> i'm not sure i see the point of the change tbh ;)
[15:33] <chrisccoulson> but i need to deal with it for our extensions for the next security update
[15:35] <bdrung> so, all our extensions are considered as third-party
[15:35] <chrisccoulson> bdrung, yes, they are atm
[15:35] <bdrung> should m-d put the link into /usr/lib/firefox-addons/extensions instead of /usr/share/mozilla for firefox?
[15:35] <chrisccoulson> bdrung, i've already uploaded a fixed ubufox to the firefox-next PPA, but in order to make this work, i've had to use my own version of install-xpi from mozilla-devscripts
[15:35] <bdrung> how will thunderbird behave?
[15:36] <chrisccoulson> bdrung, thunderbird will do the same
[15:36] <chrisccoulson> i've done this for now - http://paste.ubuntu.com/705449/
[15:36] <bdrung> will iceweasel look into /usr/lib/firefox-addons/extensions?
[15:36] <chrisccoulson> i'm not sure what iceweasel will do
[15:38] <bdrung> chrisccoulson: i am happy to apply your patch if you can make sure (= ask mike hommey) that it will work on debian too
[15:39] <chrisccoulson> bdrung, i don't think that will work on debian. we'd probably want to abstract that out to separate debian/ubuntu configs
[15:39] <chrisccoulson> (like what is already done with xul-app-data.csv.*)
[15:39] <chrisccoulson> i guess it would just be /usr/lib/iceweasel/extensions on debian
[15:40] <bdrung> chrisccoulson: so another row in xul-app-data.csv?
[15:41] <chrisccoulson> bdrung, yeah, that would probably work
[19:18] <chrisccoulson> bdrung, i ended up doing it this way - http://paste.ubuntu.com/705554/
[19:19] <chrisccoulson> i'll need to push this out to oneiric and natty with the next firefox update (and rebuild extensions against it)
[19:19] <bdrung> chrisccoulson: get_symlink_overrides is hacky
[19:20] <bdrung> chrisccoulson: we import the csv files already
[19:20] <chrisccoulson> bdrung - where?
[19:22] <bdrung> chrisccoulson: in dh_xul-ext -> get_xul_apps
[19:22] <bdrung> we should move that into a library
[19:23] <chrisccoulson> bdrung, yeah, i thought about that, but the existing stuff is a lot more complicated than i needed :)
[19:23] <chrisccoulson> and this is just so i can fix all the extensions today
[19:23] <chrisccoulson> i don't mind doing it another way longer term though
[19:27] <bdrung> okay
[23:16] <FernandoMiguel> http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=91962#c27
[23:16] <FernandoMiguel> micahg: ^^^^^


[11:36] <Mister_Q> morning o/
[14:39] <Kilos> hi Mister_Q
[16:49] <tsimonq2> So lonely without Daniel Holbach... :(
[16:49] <tsimonq2> o/ Mister_Q Kilos
[18:15] <Kilos> hi tsimonq2
[18:15] <tsimonq2> How are you Kilos?
[18:16] <Kilos> ok ty and you lad?
[18:16] <Kilos> just taking things very easy
[18:16] <tsimonq2> Pretty good :)
[18:16] <tsimonq2> Well that's good :)
[18:17] <Kilos> lol
[21:20] <Mister_Q> o/