 I don't have WWW access right now.
[01:39] <elky> i'll see if it'll load
[01:39]  * tiox pokes topyli
[01:40] <Fenixdeux> hi. I make a joke about Anonymous cutting Natalie Portman's hairdo for no apparent expressed reason and I get banhammered in #ubuntu-offtopic .. what kind of offtopic channel this is ?!??!?!
[01:40] <elky> you got removed and quieted, not banned
[01:40] <rww> tiox: topyli's likely asleep :)
[01:40] <elky> besides, it wasn't anythign to do with the hair, Fenixdeux.
[01:40] <tiox> Yeah, thanks for telling me.
[01:40] <elky> Fenixdeux, it was about the thing rww asked you to stop talking about.
[01:41] <tiox> So how much longer am I to sit in the corner?
[01:41] <Fenixdeux> elky: which was what ?
[01:41] <rww> tiox: until elky gets the Bantracker to cooperate, might be a few minutes
[01:41] <rww> tiox: (it's a rather slow website, unfortunately)
[01:41] <Fenixdeux> Anonymous is not your personal tool for vendetta
[01:41] <tiox> May I has dunce cap?
[01:41] <tiox> :P
[01:41] <Fenixdeux> he's just anonymous ..
[01:42] <rww> tiox: (and then we see what happened and whether there are any comments from the time the ban was set, and decide where to go from there)
[01:42] <elky> rww, want to have a word to Fenixdeux plz?
[01:42] <rww> elky: sure
[01:42] <Fenixdeux> rww: yeah.. I didn't notice what was offa offtopic this tiem 'k ..?
[01:42] <rww> Fenixdeux: inflammatory comments about "blowing up shit" are not acceptable in #ubuntu-offtopic. Come back in a day or two.
[01:42] <tiox> Meh, too long to wait.   I'm going to leave it for topyli to decide if you've changed for his liking.
[01:44] <tiox> I assume no lurking allowed?
[01:45] <rww> tiox: indeed, I'll poke him to PM you if I see him around
[01:45] <elky> also, it's 'the wachowskis', not brothers. One of them transitioned.
[01:45] <rww> tiox: he's in Europe, so you might come back during the appropriate times for that timezone
[01:45] <Fenixdeux> they got scared of their own creation and therefore made the Matrix III all rubbish and shit..
[01:45] <Fenixdeux> I and II were epic and III was epically bad
[01:46] <Fenixdeux> *epicly
[01:46] <rww> Is there some part of this that's relevant to anything?
[01:46] <elky> rww, i don't think so, no.
[01:46] <Fenixdeux> rejoice !!!
[01:47] <Fenixdeux> it has no relevance at all !!!
 'k I'll be back in a few days..
[01:48] <elky> if he shows up before then, point him to that.
 whoa.. I've been quited in #ubuntu-offtopic and then after complaining I gots it on #ubuntu-ops
[01:49] <Pici> where was that?
[01:49] <bazhang> #u
[01:49] <Pici> oh
[01:50] <bazhang> fr0sted, hi
[01:52] <Myrtti> fr0sted: hello?
[01:52] <fr0sted> hi?
[02:05] <jubo_> re
[02:06] <bazhang> jubo_, hi fenixdeux
[02:06] <jubo_> foo.. bar..
[02:06] <jubo_> I really like this Xubuntu.. big thanks to all who contributed
[02:08] <bazhang> jubo_, you were instructed to come back in 48 hrs
[02:08] <elky> ok, thanks. your wait before we consider removing your quiet and ban is now a full week.
[02:09] <jubo_> yes. I just read that on other channels.. I was just so excited I found my Xubuntu-machines charger and was able to come back
[02:09] <jubo_> I had completely lost the power charger and I'm so happy that no further bannage has been excerted in my direction XD XD
[02:10] <elky> except it has.
[02:10] <rww> specifically, you just got banned from #ubuntu and #ubuntu-offtopic for violating network policy by evading the quiet set on you
[02:10] <jubo_> I'll check back in two days time ( but let me mention you will not be able to bannage me after I get my psyBNC accounts ) ( yes I know this is in violation of freenode policy, yes )
[02:11] <rww> no, you'll check back in a week.
[02:11] <rww> and if you join with a BNC and I find it, you'll check back in two weeks
[02:11] <rww> this is not a battle I recommend.
[02:11] <jubo_> but great work on Ubuntu, I love it
[02:12] <elky> jubo_, you're going to leave now, and you're going to return when?
[02:18] <Fenix2> You win. I return in no less then one week
 something wrong with ubuntu?
[03:34] <bazhang> this guy has been hitting several channels with nonsense.
[03:43] <bazhang> got usr13 in PM to clarify the sudo vs. sudo su issue
 It is a baseless philosophical argument.
[03:45] <bazhang> getting mixed messages there..
[04:38] <bazhang> well that turned out nicely at the last
[04:39] <bazhang> ie why we recommend leaving root account disabled etc
[04:41] <bazhang> * FloodBot4<EMAIL_ADDRESS>has joined #ubuntu
[04:44] <bazhang> tried to PM, no response
[04:44] <rww> nick changed
[07:28]  * rww munches popcorn, watches martin_ go in #ubuntu-offtopic
[07:34] <bazhang> :Lint?
[07:41] <rww> yup, they're still a problem >.>
 you should always have windows boot floppy at hand   <--- wat
[07:46] <rww> has BookFace been in here at all over the last few days?
[07:46] <bazhang> not that I recollect
[07:48] <bazhang> troll detected
[07:49] <rww> known issue, gone.
[07:49] <bazhang> that was the MARINES guy from before, right?
[07:50] <rww> 07:49 -!- Irssi: stalker Verbose: Got nicks: GloodbayJarfiner, lvkjej, bienbienbienbien, NGAZGAPBR, wnobowbnwobnwobn, ItsAName, oqewru, oweibnweionbiwoe, EyeballZoomout, TROHL, shudderer, feiowwo, A1BTD, oibnweoingf from host gateway/web/freenode/ip.<IP_ADDRESS>
[07:50] <bazhang> yikes
[07:51] <rww> I'm probably missing some, but yeah.
[07:51] <rww> they're now asking in #defocus instead :|
 can I get somwe explanation why ubuntu mirror srever tried to hack my machine?
[08:10] <rww> The bell tolls for Lint.
[08:13] <rww> you know what. no. I can't be bothered. someone else deal with the stupid if you want :|
[10:23]  * jrib crosses fingers that these 22 updates will include fix for boot issues
[11:56] <oCean> oh, had not seen viking's earlier post..
[11:56] <oCean> *posts rather
[11:57] <Myrtti> he is going to get kicked so hard that he can't locate his bum because it's in the orbit, if he continues
[12:16] <oCean> un88 = viking
[12:23]  * Myrtti dusts off her hands
[13:05] <IdleOne> !guidelines > jaber
[13:25] <bazhang> he was talking about 11.04 not 11.10
[13:26] <IdleOne> was he?
[13:26] <IdleOne> I understood it as 11.10
[13:26] <bazhang> yes. feel free to field questions in +1
[13:27] <IdleOne> didn't the Unity devs just do a Q&A on reddit?
[13:35] <bazhang> he doesn't want support, just to rant
[13:36] <IdleOne> rather have him rant in +1 even if that isn't the proper channel to rant in...do we have a "rant here" channel?
[13:36] <bazhang> -ot
[13:39] <IdleOne> I suppose but I'm sure he would get blasted in there also for ranting
[13:42] <bazhang> at a certain point it just becomes like smallfoot-
[13:53] <Tm_T> IdleOne: we have, his personal blog
[13:54] <Tm_T> he can rant there all he wants
[14:12] <oCean> bazhang: ubottu was napping I guess
[14:12] <bazhang> oCean, heh yeah
 where can i wget perl script?
[14:28] <bazhang> huh?
[14:39] <jussi> !no, cloak is <reply> To get any kind of cloak (ubuntu member or any other kind) you first need to set up your nick as detailed in this FAQ: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup - you MUST set an email address, AND group an alternate nick. For Ubuntu member cloaks, ask in #ubuntu-irc and provide your launchpad page, for unaffiliated ones, ask in #freenode.
[14:39] <IdleOne> that is a good reply Myrtti has aliased :)
[14:40] <jussi> hrm, thats not quiye right...
[14:40] <jussi> the alt nick is no longer needed
[14:40] <jussi> !no, cloak is <reply> To get any kind of cloak (ubuntu member or any other kind) you first need to set up your nick as detailed in this FAQ: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup - you MUST set an email address. For Ubuntu member cloaks, ask in #ubuntu-irc and provide your launchpad page, for unaffiliated ones, ask in #freenode.
[14:41] <jussi> It's useful, but not required, to have an alternate nick grouped to your account. For example, if your primary nick is foo:
[14:42] <tsimpson> jussi: the part about "you MUST set an email address" isn't needed, you can't register without an email
[14:43] <jussi> tsimpson:  aiui you cannot register without email anymore
[14:44] <jussi> The email address that you select will not be given out by staff, and is mainly used to allow us to help you recover the account in the event that you forget your password. For this reason, you are required to use a real, non-disposable, email address. Upon registering, you will receive an email with a verification command that you will need to run to complete the registration process. Failure to verify the account will cause it to be automatically
[14:44] <jussi> dropped after about 24 hours.
[14:44] <tsimpson> jussi: read the last 6 words of my message
[14:44] <jussi> oh bah. :/
[14:44] <IdleOne> maybe change you MUST set an email address to an email address is required for registering?
[14:44] <jussi> IdleOne: go for it. :)
[14:44] <tsimpson> it's already stated on the link
[14:45] <jussi> I blame the heat...
[14:45] <IdleOne> !no, cloak is <reply> To get any kind of cloak (ubuntu member or any other kind) you first need to set up your nick as detailed in this FAQ: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup -  For Ubuntu member cloaks, ask in #ubuntu-irc and provide your launchpad page, for unaffiliated ones, ask in #freenode.
[14:45] <jussi> its way too hot here.
[14:45] <IdleOne> tsimpson: is right no need to duplicate info given in the link
[14:46] <IdleOne> what about using https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InternetRelayChat/Registration instead of the freenode link?
[14:47] <jussi> IdleOne: too long imho
[14:47] <tsimpson> wow that page is ugly
[14:48] <jussi> and the freenode link is much better
[14:48] <IdleOne> lol I'm sure ljl will appreciate that
[14:48] <IdleOne> okie dokie
[14:51] <tsimpson> looks better in the kubuntu theme, but all the *bold* is a little annoying
[15:24] <Myrtti> !guidelines > Iamred
[16:16] <h00k> hi friends
[16:16] <tiox> Okay topyli, crawled my arse out of bed and waiting. :)
[16:26] <tiox> Just so other people of power are clear: (06:47:40 AM) topyli: if you can join ops, we'll get your ban removed
[16:31] <BarkingFish> Good afternoon ops.  I just want to enquire with you about edits to ubottu - I just sent one through, for a language we don't have a message for at this time.  Could someone tell me how long the requests normally take to enter ubottu's database please?
[16:32] <BarkingFish> I was told it'd been forwarded here.
[16:52] <tsimpson> ^ that's Malay/Malaysian fyi
[17:05] <topyli> tiox: you have been a slow learner. can you follow our guidelines in the future and keep ubuntu channels ubuntu?
[17:05] <topyli> tiox: i am willing to remove your ban, but be sure to do this
[17:10] <tiox> I will.
[17:10] <tiox> Sorry for the delayed response, I was getting food. Not even going to come in now anyway since I'll be leaving soon.
[17:11] <topyli> tiox: no worries, irc is like that :)
[17:12] <topyli> tiox: please try to join -offtopic so we can see if i did this right
[17:14] <tiox> Nope, still B&
[17:15] <tiox> Guess you did it really really good. :P
[17:22] <topyli> you can't join?
[17:22] <topyli> i fail. let me see what the ban is really on
[17:25] <topyli> thanks tsimpson. tiox, try again
[17:27] <topyli> tiox: you should probably leave this channel at this point. business only, no idling :)
[17:28] <tiox> Uhm, oops.
[17:28] <tiox> Parted the wrong channel.
[17:58] <Myrtti> mneptok: thank you ♥
[18:32] <jforjackjohnson> i doubt that any sanity exists in your team.
[18:32] <Myrtti> well what is your issue then
[18:32] <Myrtti> you clearly have some kind of an agenda
[18:32] <Myrtti> do tell us
[18:32] <jforjackjohnson> eMail me the TOS, my ISP won't let me access https://wiki.*.*/IRC/*.
[18:33] <jforjackjohnson> Well if you want my agenda, expects many \n's.
[18:33] <Myrtti> no, not really
[18:33] <Myrtti> Cliff notes version would do
[18:34] <jforjackjohnson> What are you playing at? Try IRCing from a typewriter.
[18:34] <Myrtti> look, we don't have time for playing games with you
[18:35] <jforjackjohnson> I don't have time for non-portable typewriters. How does that make any difference? Your agenda is to kill off opposition to Ubuntu and theirb restrictive TOSes.
[18:35] <jforjackjohnson> s/theirb/their/, sorry
[18:36] <jforjackjohnson> here i am, waiting
[18:36]  * jforjackjohnson waits for answer
[18:37] <Myrtti> our IRC channels aren't for testing your typewriter, your software, or playing some social experiment on
[18:37] <Myrtti> if you can't behave without cursing, flooding, or idiocy, then we kindly ask you to live your artistic or scientific or software development dreams somewhere else
[18:38] <jforjackjohnson> Let me quote self: You get more done on a typewriter.
[18:38] <Myrtti> let me quote the rules: no cursing, even obfuscated
[18:38] <Myrtti> let me quote some more: no flooding
[18:38] <Myrtti> more?
[18:39] <jforjackjohnson> Myrtti, Just quote the entire TOS.
[18:39] <Myrtti> how about you get your head around using your browser and reading the guidelines yourself
[18:39] <Myrtti> I'm not in a humourous mood
[18:40] <jforjackjohnson> As someone said in -offtopic (where I am now unable to stay sane and therefore banned), all browsers are essentially equal and therefore suck.
[18:40] <jforjackjohnson> Whatever...
[18:42] <Myrtti> whatever?
[18:42] <jforjackjohnson> All that means to me is "just use your typewriter, you darnface"
[18:44] <jforjackjohnson> please press the keys corresponding to the ban and kick typebars.
[18:45] <jforjackjohnson> or i will leave w/o warning.
[18:45] <Myrtti> welcome back to discuss your ban after you've read the guidelines.
[18:45] <jforjackjohnson> If I was in #xubuntu-offtopic I would say: (Xubuntu > Ubuntu ) < Debian.
[18:45] <Pici> good for you
[18:46] <jforjackjohnson> let me say: I am never sane I am not a steampunker, but I use typewriters.
[18:46] <jforjackjohnson> let me say: I am never sane - I am not a steampunker, but I use typewriters.
[18:47] <topyli> jforjackjohnson: i don't think this is progressing today. please join this channel later in the future when you have some interest in the ubuntu channels and behaving on them
[18:47] <jforjackjohnson> Bof.
[18:47] <jforjackjohnson> I am not an idiot.
[18:47] <topyli> right now, as there is no business, you should leave the channel because it's for work and not for fun
[18:48] <jforjackjohnson> I could not remain calm. I will try, once I have written out my thoughts on my typewriter. Just wait one moment.
[18:50] <jforjackjohnson> I will PM you when I have become calm. I am clammy and insane at now.#
[18:50] <jforjackjohnson> I will PM you when I have become calm. I am clammy and insane at now.
[18:50] <jforjackjohnson> At least topyli will be notified when I have wriiten my thoughts down.
[18:51] <jforjackjohnson> At least topyli will be notified when I have written* my thoughts down.
[18:51] <topyli> jforjackjohnson: free tip: it's a very bad idea to get banned from this channel
[18:51] <jforjackjohnson> let me open my window, then I will leave.
[18:51] <topyli> that is, if you want to use the ubuntu channels
[18:52] <jforjackjohnson> gbye
[19:03] <topyli> for the record, jack is trolling me in pm
[19:05] <jforjackjohnson> Hello.
[19:05] <topyli> jforjackjohnson: no
[19:06] <jforjackjohnson> quote you: I don't think this is progressing today. [sic]
[19:07] <topyli> jforjackjohnson: please don't join this channel before you're ready to improve your behavior
[19:07] <jforjackjohnson> D oyu know why I have a TV dinner table shoved up my back? It's to improve my calmness my making my back sit straight.
[19:09] <topyli> i told him in pm that it's a bad idea to get banned from this channel
[19:21] <jforjackjohnson> You can advise me on how to regain my sanity enough to meet your rules.
[19:22] <rww> oh gods, you again
[19:22] <jforjackjohnson> because you were not being constructive.
[19:29]  * doubtsSanity needs to idle for private reasons - once he's back, tell him what your reasons are.
[19:32] <topyli> !appeals | doubtsSanity
[19:52] <Unit193> Hey,  do you have a ban on<EMAIL_ADDRESS>in this channel?
[19:55] <rww> Unit193: yes
[19:57] <Unit193> rww: Thanks. "do you not get my point?  Logged into #lubuntu-offtopic and started spamming a little, should be over now
[19:58] <Unit193> (There is an op online now if he isn't) I just wanted to make sure he was actually banned from here though
[20:01] <oCean> Unit193: thanks for the heads up
[20:01] <Unit193> oCean: I wasn't sure if it warrented a visit to this channel, but I wanted to make sure. Your welcome if it helps!
[20:04] <oCean> Unit193: if in doubt, visit us.
[20:04] <Unit193> oCean: Mind telling what's up with him?
[20:07] <oCean> Unit193: I'm still wondering that myself. And we don't normally discuss bans/removals with other users.
[20:07] <rww> Unit193: the channel logs (linked in /topic) may be informative. but yeah, we don't provide commentary ourselves.
[20:07] <Unit193> oCean: Also, check the access lists if you wish, jmarsden and I are both there. I understand fully, no problem
[20:08] <rww> oh, *l*ubuntu-offtopic. I was wondering why I couldn't see what you were on about :|
[20:09] <Unit193> Alright, unless you want more I'll obey the topic and /part
[20:10] <oCean> Thanks, in that case I'll have to complete another supertuxkart challange :)
[20:10] <oCean> *challenge even
[20:16] <rww> and now they're in #freenode.
[20:17] <oCean> claiming being banned "From every ubuntu* and debian* channel in existence"
[20:17] <charlie-tca> Claim or wish?
[20:18] <oCean> wait, I forgot to quote the "unreasonably" part
[21:20] <BarkingFish> Hi. I asked a few hours ago about an edit I made to ubottu's database, by adding a factoid. It was sent to here to be dealt with, but it doesn't look like it's been approved or accepted.   I just tested it in PM and it's not working.
[21:21] <BarkingFish> How long does it take to process additions to ubottu please?
[21:22] <IdleOne> give me a moment please
[21:22] <BarkingFish> ok
[21:23] <IdleOne> Dalam kebanyakan saluran Ubuntu, kita hanya bercakap dalam Bahasa Inggeris.Malangnya pada masa ini, kita tidak mempunyai saluran bahasa Melayu. Kami minta maaf atas ketidaknyamanannya.Jika anda boleh bercakap bahasa Inggeris, sila berbuat demikian, atau menggunakan penterjemah internet.
[21:23] <IdleOne> that is what you are talking about correct?
[21:23] <BarkingFish> Yes
[21:24] <BarkingFish> It's ubottu's language message, slightly reworded into Malay
[21:24] <IdleOne> for what channel?
[21:24] <Myrtti> surely in Malay full stops are followed by spaces
[21:24] <BarkingFish> Since we don't have a malay channel for people needing help, the message explains we mostly use english, but we don't have a channel for them.
[21:25] <BarkingFish> IdleOne, it's for #ubuntu
[21:25] <BarkingFish> Myrtti, yes they are, it's a typo
[21:25] <BarkingFish> *pair of typos
[21:25] <BarkingFish> it advises the users to speak english if they're able to, or to use an online translator if they need help
[21:27] <BarkingFish> should I resubmit it with the typing corrections?
[21:27] <IdleOne> !ms is <reply> Dalam kebanyakan saluran Ubuntu, kita hanya bercakap dalam Bahasa Inggeris. Malangnya pada masa ini, kita tidak mempunyai saluran bahasa Melayu. Kami minta maaf atas ketidaknyamanannya. Jika anda boleh bercakap bahasa Inggeris, sila berbuat demikian, atau menggunakan penterjemah internet.
[21:28] <IdleOne> look good?
[21:28] <BarkingFish> yep
[21:28] <Myrtti> lets see
[21:28] <BarkingFish> I'll supply the english for it as well
[21:28] <Myrtti> !ms | BarkingFish
[21:28] <Myrtti> ok, so it doesnt cut off
[21:28] <BarkingFish> Obviously, you'd need to know the english as well for anyone questioning it.
[21:28] <BarkingFish> "In most of the Ubuntu channel, we only speak English. Unfortunately at this time, we do not have recourse to the Malay language. We apologize for any inconvenience. If you can speak English, please do so, or using the internet translator."
[21:29] <IdleOne> Myrtti: we good with the factoid?
[21:30] <Myrtti> yup
[21:30] <IdleOne> :)
[21:30] <IdleOne> BarkingFish: thanks for the help :)
[21:30] <BarkingFish> great, thanks guys, I appreciate it.
[21:30] <IdleOne> welcome
[21:31] <BarkingFish> no problem - it's just that we had a couple of malay guys in earlier asking questions, and I went to find an entry in ubottu to send them on their way, and there wasn't one :)
[21:32] <BarkingFish> anyhow, per your rules, instead of idling, I'll leave you in peace!  Thanks again both of you.
[21:32] <BarkingFish> see ya later
[21:33] <Myrtti> lovely chap
[21:33] <IdleOne> !malay is <alias> ms
[21:33] <IdleOne> !malay
[21:33] <IdleOne> there.
[21:34] <Myrtti> actually
[21:34] <Myrtti> !my
[21:35] <IdleOne> is the correct code my or ms?
[21:35] <IdleOne> my search says ms
[21:35] <IdleOne> !my > BarkingFish
[21:35] <Myrtti> [00:35] ~~~Irssi: #ubuntu-my: Total of 15 nicks [0 ops, 0          halfops, 0 voices, 15 normal]
[21:36] <BarkingFish> IdleOne, That channel has the wrong language code!
[21:36] <IdleOne> BarkingFish: I see.
[21:36] <Myrtti> no it doesnt?
[21:36] <BarkingFish> malay is ms, that channel indicates it's for burma, my = myanmar
[21:37] <IdleOne> question is do they speak the same language?
[21:37] <Myrtti> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.my
[21:37] <BarkingFish> no
[21:37] <Myrtti> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.ms
[21:38] <BarkingFish> Myrtti, per http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malay_language -- ISO 639-1 	ms
[21:38] <BarkingFish> i'm not going by TLD
[21:39] <Myrtti> well...
[21:39] <BarkingFish> Burma's tld is .mr if i remember correctly
[21:39] <Myrtti> the channels are names for the local communities...
[21:40] <Myrtti> mm actually
[21:40] <BarkingFish> so they use the tld rather than the iso code for the language?
[21:40] <IdleOne> I think loco's are supposed to use official iso code
[21:40] <Myrtti> usually yes
[21:40] <Myrtti> !es
[21:40] <funkyHat> iso code for the country though, not language?
[21:40] <Myrtti> !pt
[21:41] <funkyHat> e.g. #ubuntu-uk
[21:41] <Myrtti> !fr
[21:41] <IdleOne> well, you folks fight it out :)
[21:41] <BarkingFish> ah, in that case I apologise.  I saw my on the channel and thought that it was wrong.
[21:42] <BarkingFish> And to answer your question, IdleOne, Saya bertutur dalam bahasa Melayu, tetapi tidak begitu baik.
[21:42] <Myrtti> the channels are for mainly geographical areas, yes
[21:43] <Myrtti> but we point people to the channels that have people
[21:43] <IdleOne> BarkingFish: I don't sp4ak any Malay
[21:43] <BarkingFish> I had a friend of mine translate the message for ubottu, I do speak malay, but my understanding of the language is appalling. It's almost like indonesian.
[21:43] <IdleOne> speak*
[21:43] <Myrtti> and looks like .my would be correct
[21:43] <Myrtti> or -my
[21:43] <BarkingFish> so that message needs doing again
[21:43] <BarkingFish> can you ask ubottu to forget it please?
[21:44] <Myrtti> !forget ms
[21:44] <BarkingFish> thanks
[21:44] <IdleOne> Myrtti: but if they don't speak malay in -my ...
[21:44] <IdleOne> !forget malay
[21:44] <BarkingFish> I'll get Daran to retranslate the normal message, but it'll be tomorrow now. I'd imagine it's about 3am where he is.
[21:45] <Myrtti> IdleOne: it has to start from somewhere
[21:45] <IdleOne> I'm not emotionally attached to the factoid. Just as long as they are accurate :)
[21:46] <BarkingFish> !time Kuala Lumpur
[21:46] <BarkingFish> ah, he doesn't have a time thingy. :(
[21:46] <IdleOne> ubottu: has no arms to wear a watch and she is a she
[21:46] <IdleOne> lol
[21:46] <BarkingFish> dang, 5.50am
[21:46] <IdleOne> !forget has no arms to wear a watch and she is a she
[21:47] <IdleOne> err
[21:47] <IdleOne> whatever bot
[21:48] <BarkingFish> I actually requested it to be added to !ms because when I searched the alis here, I went by topic *ubuntu-ms* and it didn't show up...
[21:48] <BarkingFish> I wonder if it already has a malay message
[21:48] <BarkingFish> !my
[21:49] <BarkingFish> yep, it does.  I assume that was what you sent me, IdleOne
[21:49] <IdleOne> yes
[21:49] <IdleOne> !no my is <reply> bantuan bahasa melayu? sila /join #ubuntu-my
[21:49] <IdleOne> !my
[21:50] <IdleOne> so we all good now?
[21:50] <BarkingFish> yup
[21:50] <IdleOne> yay!
[21:50] <BarkingFish> Would you like that turning into a full length one, like the others, or leaving as is?
[21:50] <IdleOne> if it needs to be fixed please do
[21:50] <IdleOne> if not we will leave it as is
[21:51] <BarkingFish> it doesn't need to be fixed, per se, just wondered if you wanted the whole of ubottu's message doing.
[21:51] <BarkingFish> As it is, it will suffice to point people where they need to go
[21:51] <IdleOne> the goal is for users to be able to find the support they need.
[21:51] <BarkingFish> yup, and with that message they will.
[21:51] <IdleOne> if that factoid gets them where they need to be then great
[21:51] <BarkingFish> I'll leave it as it stands, no need to break what works :)
[21:52] <IdleOne> cool.
[21:52] <BarkingFish> thanks again guys, I appreciate your help.  If I find any languages it hasn't got, I'll try and sort something out for you.
[21:52] <IdleOne> sure thing and thank you.
[21:53] <BarkingFish> np IdleOne - see ya!
[21:53] <IdleOne> nice chap indeed
[23:04] <KLine> how often is op intervention required in #ubuntu? its one of the most common channels to hear about in #freenode. is this simply because #ubuntu is so large, or because it attracts an unruly lot?
[23:07] <bazhang> thats an odd nick
[23:08] <KLine> bazhang: haha, yeah. its legit though, just felt like one more topical to irc
[23:08] <bazhang> kind of an anti-lightning rod :)
[23:09] <bazhang> KLine, probably a mix of both to answer your query
 linux mint is a ubuntu downstream.   <---- bwahaha
[23:10] <rww> Not sure why that's funny, it's correct.
[23:11] <KLine> bazhang: hehe, thanks for the answer
[23:11] <rww> Upstream of us are Debian, GNOME, Linux, etc. Downstream of us are Mint, Backtrack, ...
[23:11] <bazhang> rww, as in he wants support for it
[23:11] <rww> so tell him to go away
[23:12] <bazhang> I did. he's not listening.
[23:54] <bazhang> thats the second person in a few hours to think +1 is their personal blog/twitter/rantspace
[23:55] <rww> considering some of its regular users, I am not surprised
[23:55] <elky> they're confusing it with google+?
[23:56] <bazhang> hehe


  The chair is sil2100. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[15:00] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[15:00] <teward> o/  (refilling coffee as well)
[15:00] <sil2100> I think we have quorum, so let's start o/
[15:00] <sil2100> Welcome everyone, let's start off with the previous items
[15:00] <sil2100> #topic Review of previous action items
[15:01] <teward> sil, ddstreet, rbasak, me.  that's 4 of 7 so we do have quorum :P
[15:01] <sil2100> So we have a few items with Dan in the name
[15:01] <sil2100> ddstreet edubuntu seed <-> pkgset (carried over)
[15:01] <sil2100> ddstreet: once you're back, how's things with re ^ ?
[15:02] <ddstreet> yes please carry over again, my goal is to get to that first thing next year
[15:02] <sil2100> Ok, no problem
[15:02] <sil2100> #action ddstreet edubuntu seed <-> pkgset (carried over)
[15:02] <meetingology> ACTION: ddstreet edubuntu seed <-> pkgset (carried over)
[15:02] <sil2100> ddstreet to ping TB to check on kernel-dkms packageset creation
[15:03] <ddstreet> that is done, but there are 2 new action items i need to do for it, first i need to update our KB with the details for asking for a new packageset (specifically re: owner and who adds the packages)
[15:03] <sil2100> Do we have the kernel-dkms packageset already?
[15:03] <ddstreet> also i need to add the packages to the packageset
[15:03] <ddstreet> but the TB has created the packageset for us already
[15:03] <teward> so i'd say spin two new action items for that
[15:04] <sil2100> Yeah, let's do that, can those be assigned to you then?
[15:04] <ddstreet> i can take them both, should be quick
[15:04] <ddstreet> yeah
[15:04] <sil2100> #action ddstreet to update the KnowledgeBase with details regarding creation of new packagesets
[15:04] <meetingology> ACTION: ddstreet to update the KnowledgeBase with details regarding creation of new packagesets
[15:04] <sil2100> #action ddstreet to add DKMS packages to the new kernel-dkms packageset
[15:04] <meetingology> ACTION: ddstreet to add DKMS packages to the new kernel-dkms packageset
[15:04] <sil2100> Awesome
[15:05] <sil2100> Ok, this one seems done: ddstreet discuss with slashd plans for DMB involvement or stepping down before next election
[15:05] <ddstreet> yep done
[15:05] <sil2100> Now a few from rbasak
[15:05] <sil2100> rbasak to reply to ML re: canonical-oem-metapackages packageset and owning team creation (carried over)
[15:05] <rbasak> Carry over please. I've been away, but hope to hit this one up properly in January after the vacation period.
[15:05] <sil2100> rbasak: I think I'm a bit detached from that one, any progress?
[15:06] <sil2100> Ok!
[15:06] <sil2100> Yeah, let's carry over then
[15:06] <sil2100> #action rbasak to reply to ML re: canonical-oem-metapackages packageset and owning team creation (carried over)
[15:06] <meetingology> ACTION: rbasak to reply to ML re: canonical-oem-metapackages packageset and owning team creation (carried over)
[15:06] <sil2100> rbasak to handle private ML request
[15:06] <rbasak> Done
[15:06] <sil2100> \o/
[15:06] <sil2100> Ok, that's all the previous action items
[15:07] <sil2100> Let's move on to our applications for today
[15:07] <sil2100> #topic Package Set/Per Package Uploader Applications
[15:07] <sil2100> #subtopic nick black for notcurses/growlight PPU
[15:07] <rbasak> See devel-permissions@ just now
[15:07] <sil2100> So, I saw the follow up e-mail from Robie regarding this application
[15:07] <rbasak> I believe he's deferring
[15:08] <rbasak> Assuming everyone's happy with my reply?
[15:08] <sil2100> Yeah, I think it made sense
[15:08] <ddstreet> yep +1
[15:08] <teward> yep
[15:08] <sil2100> It would be hard for us to make a sensible decision about upload rights for someone that we can't judge the experience from the Ubuntu POV
[15:09] <sil2100> #topic MOTU Applications
[15:09] <sil2100> #subtopic Lukas 'slyon' Märdian, MOTU & netplan.io PPU
[15:09] <teward> sil2100: actually, we can make that decision pretty easily, we've done it in the past (-1s exist for a reason)
[15:09] <teward> just to finish that note ;)
[15:09] <sil2100> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/slyon/MOTUApplication
[15:10] <sil2100> teward: yeah, what I meant is that I wouldn't be able to judge if that person is safe to upload to Ubuntu or not
[15:10] <teward> just a heads up: this is a dual part application - part MOTU and part PPU - i'd evaluate those as two separate votes.
[15:10] <teward> my 2 cents.
[15:10] <teward> (for sylon)
[15:10] <slyon> As noted in the subtopic, this is a combined MOTU + netplan PPU application (if that is possible)
[15:10] <sil2100> Since my -1 doesn't mean that person isn't capable of doing that, it would just mean I can't tell if that person can
[15:10] <teward> slyon: NORMALLY we evaluate those independently
[15:11] <teward> but I think we can just do two votes, one on MOTU and one on PPU
[15:11] <slyon> teward: that would be great
[15:11] <sil2100> Regarding slyon's application - his application is for MOTU and netplan.io PPU, but hm, do we have any means to maybe also try to look at it from the core-dev POV?
[15:12] <teward> sil2100: my 2 cents is unless they applied for coredev we evaluate as is
[15:12] <teward> since they applied for MOTU and specific PPU I was looking at it from that perspective
[15:12] <sil2100> Since I know slyon is applying for MOTU as he felt that this would be a good starting point, but since slyon is part of Foundations, he's doing most work on main packages anyway
[15:13] <slyon> I do lots of work in main as well, as part of my foundations role... Thought it would be wise to apply for MOTU first
[15:13] <rbasak> IMHO, there's no harm in adding an additional vote for core dev. DMB members who are uncomfortable doing that can just -1 and request a reapplication with more notice or whatever
[15:13] <teward> after evaluating i don't disagree with rbasak
[15:13] <teward> so we should do the vote in this order then:
[15:13] <teward> - Core Dev
[15:13] <teward> - MOTU (if Core Dev doesn't get quorum)
[15:13] <teward> - PPU (if Core Dev doesn't get quorum)
[15:13] <sil2100> +1
[15:13] <teward> and evaluate it from those perspective.
[15:14] <ddstreet> so slyon, do you want us to consider you for coredev as well during this mtg? your desire is most important here i think
[15:14] <rbasak> However we don't have endorsements for core dev
[15:14] <sil2100> Three voting opportunities sound awesome ;)
[15:14] <slyon> Absolutely, that would be great. I talked about this with sil2100 already a few days ago
[15:14] <teward> rbasak: if sylon doesn't want to be considered for coredev then we can defer that to Some Future Time when they're ready.
[15:14] <teward> but as per above... :P
[15:14] <slyon> It improves the odds ;-)
[15:14] <teward> ... bah need more coffee... back in a minute
[15:15] <ddstreet> then the order of consideration from teward sounds right to me
[15:15] <sil2100> Well, my application basically also says I think he's a solid core-dev candidate, but yeah, I do work with slyon quite closely ;)
[15:15] <sil2100> I mean
[15:15] <sil2100> s/application/endorsement/
[15:15] <ddstreet> sil2100 well you're biased since you share the same first name, obviously ;-)
[15:15] <teward> hah
[15:15] <teward> ANYWAYS, sylon how about you introduce yourself while we review?
[15:16] <sil2100> haha, indeed! You can't imagine how confusing on meetings it is right now
[15:16] <ddstreet> lol
[15:16] <slyon> I did not list my main work/packages in the application explicitly, but worked on the likes of: dnspython, python-httplib2, pexpect, sensible-utils, s390-tools[-signed], command-not-found, klibc, curl, ...
[15:16] <slyon> teward: sure. So my Name is Lukas, I'm 30 years old, living in germany.
[15:16] <slyon> I joined Canonical in early 2020 as part of the foundations team and netplan co-maintainer
[15:17] <slyon> Have been a long time open source contributor since ~2009, working mainly on mobile/handheld based projects like the SHR operating system (OpenEmbedded/Yocto based) or the FreeSmartphone.org middleware
[15:18] <slyon> I helped packaging some of this work for Debian as well.
[15:18] <slyon> Also I did some device driver development for Letux/GTA04 devices, which partly landed in mainline
[15:18] <slyon> (this was mostly battery, input and display driver work)
[15:19] <rbasak> If xnox, rbalint or cpaelzer are around, would you be willing to extend your endorsement for slyon to core dev?
[15:19] <slyon> I've been using Ubuntu since 2006, which made me stick to running Linux and open source software exclusively and I'm very happy to be in a position to contribute to Ubuntu now.
[15:20] <rbasak> In other words, do you think he's ready for core dev now, or should he continue sponsored uploads for a while first?
[15:20] <slyon> well.. I contributed a bit before as well, doing translations and themes. But as part of foundations I can improve the core stuff
[15:20] <slyon> I guess that's about it... If there are any questions? Feel free to ask!
[15:21] <rbasak> slyon: have you done any +1 maintenance work yet?
[15:21] <sil2100> Ok, time for questions! (in the meantime)
[15:22] <rbasak> Eg. any proposed migration issues?
[15:22] <slyon> rbasak: Not yet, just volunteered for my first +1 shift this week, which will take place in Jan
[15:22] <slyon> but I did work on proposed migration quite a lot
[15:22] <slyon> as we do weekly proposed-migration rotations inside the foundations team
[15:22] <slyon> s/rotations/assignments
[15:23] <rbasak> Do you follow your uploads through until they migrate to the release pocket? And do you know where to go to work on getting things unstuck from proposed?
[15:24] <slyon> rbasak: Yes. I always check my upload, to make sure they did not get stuck either during build or autopkgtests.
[15:24] <slyon> I check the britney outputs and test logs if needed
[15:24] <slyon> often times flaky tests make it fail/getting stuck, in which case I ask in #ubuntu-devel for somebody to retrigger the tests for me
[15:25] <slyon> or I prepare MPs to file a hint and ask about it in #ubuntu-release
[15:25] <rbasak> OK thanks!
[15:27] <ddstreet> slyon i see you uploaded netplan for groovy on oct 14; was there any special consideration before uploading on that day? if you had uploaded a day later, oct 15, would there be any different considerations?
[15:27] <teward> rbalint:
[15:27] <rbalint> o/
 If xnox, rbalint or cpaelzer are around, would you be willing to extend your endorsement for slyon to core dev?
[15:27] <rbalint> teward, yes, absolutely
[15:27] <rbalint> should i update the wiki?
[15:28] <teward> rbalint: nah, your statement here is sufficient (they're being reviewed right now)
[15:28] <slyon> ddstreet: yes. I sneeked that one in shortly before final freeze.
[15:28] <teward> rbalint: thanks, and sorry to detract from your upcoming meeting prep time :)
[15:28] <rbalint> teward, no prob, i'm happy to help :-)
[15:28] <ddstreet> slyon yep :) and what would you have to do if it was after final freeze?
[15:29] <slyon> I did prepare paperwork for a FeatureFreeze exception before that
[15:29] <ddstreet> perfect, thanks.
[15:29]  * cpaelzer is reading backlog
[15:30] <teward> cpaelzer: <rbasak> If ... cpaelzer are around, would you be willing to extend your endorsement for slyon to core dev?
[15:30] <teward> sorry for all the pings rbasak xD
[15:30] <ddstreet> slyon when adding patches, especially for SRUs but also for devel uploads, is there any specific information that you should include in the patch file(s)?
[15:30] <cpaelzer> actually, yes I would be ok wit hthat - his work so far was rather flawless and most importantly where unsure he asked (instead of just doing things)
[15:31] <cpaelzer> also I he lives so close that I can personally deliver punishment in case of misuse ...
[15:31] <sil2100> hahaha
[15:31] <rbasak> Thanks. I'll keep that in mind :-P
[15:31] <cpaelzer> I guess for the decision at stake the former argument is more important
[15:31] <teward> cpaelzer: hah.  thanks, cpaelzer, and sorry to have to call you in again on chaos :)
[15:31] <cpaelzer> no problem at all teward
[15:31] <teward> s/chaos/regular meeting stuff/
[15:32] <slyon> ddstreet: IMO one important information to add to patches would be the upstreaming status, i.e. references the patches send to Debian or upstream (or not-needed, if that is the case), so that others can track the progress of that patch and drop it as soon as it is applied upstream
[15:32] <slyon> cpaelzer: xD
[15:33] <ddstreet> slyon is there any specific reference on what should get added to patches?
[15:34] <slyon> ddstreet: oh you mean the LP bug number?
[15:35] <slyon> i.e. LP: #xxxxxx so that the bug can be traced by launchpad
[15:35] <ddstreet> does that go in the patch or somewhere else?
[15:35] <slyon> that usually goes into debian/changelog but can also be part of the patch
[15:35] <ddstreet> i was getting to if there is a reference or specification for what you should add to patches
[15:36] <ddstreet> that lists the exact format of lines to add to patches...
[15:37] <ddstreet> i was getting at DEP3, it makes me sad that not many people know about it, as it makes my (and my team's) job much easier :)
[15:37] <ddstreet> so i like to ask about it
[15:37] <ddstreet> but really it's not critical to the process
[15:38] <ddstreet> i would suggest at least reviewing it and suggest using at least the Bug-Ubuntu and Origin fields
[15:38] <slyon> ah hum.. yeah. usually those lines/templates are auto-generated by quilt so I was not sure about the reference, sorry about that
[15:38] <ddstreet> yep, good enough :)
[15:39] <slyon> I will!
[15:39] <ddstreet> no more q from me
[15:40] <rbasak> slyon: can you tell me what a seed is?
[15:40] <rbasak> And where would you go for more information on them?
[15:41] <xnox> teward:  sure.
[15:41] <slyon> rbasak: a seed is a text file containing an "initial set of packages", which can be the starting point to build a new image for example, by pulling in all the seed's dependencies
[15:41] <sil2100> slyon: could you tell us if you worked on any merges already? And what does such work involve?
[15:41] <teward> xnox: nice, thanks for your response and extending your endorsement to cover core-dev as well for sylon.  sorry to ping you in many places :)
[15:42] <slyon> seeds can be found here: https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/seeds/i386.hirsute/ and are maintained by the release team
[15:43] <slyon> sil2100: Yes I did some merges already. Starting point would be https://merges.ubuntu.com/main.html (or universe.html) to check for a suiteable package/merge.
[15:43] <rbasak> OK thanks. And final question: when would you need a package transition, and what are the broad steps needed to complete one?
[15:43] <rbasak> Sorry, finish with sil2100 first
[15:44] <slyon> Then I would check the diffs manually and check if the current ubuntu delta is still needed or can be dropped (do a sync instead). Adopt the patches accordingly and open a tracking bug (if this is a longer standing issue, or sponsoring is needed, to note that I am working on that specific merge)
[15:45] <slyon> The merge can be worked on with git-ubuntu or manually, preparing a debdiff for sponsors to review.
[15:45] <sil2100> Awesome, thanks o/
[15:47] <sil2100> Guess rbasak still has one open question ^
[15:47] <slyon> rbasak: I did not work on transitions too much... AFAIU they are needed for "big packages" impacting lots of other packages, like toolchains. They should be timed to not be uploaded/tested at the same time as it could entangle lots of autopkgtests and make proposed migration pretty hard
[15:48] <rbasak> Thanks
[15:48] <rbasak> I'm ready to vote
[15:49] <sil2100> Ok, any other questions?
[15:49] <teward> none from me.
[15:50] <sil2100> #vote Lukas 'slyon' Märdian for Ubuntu Core Developer membership
[15:50] <meetingology> Please vote on: Lukas 'slyon' Märdian for Ubuntu Core Developer membership
[15:50] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
[15:51] <ddstreet> +1 very good endorsements, good amount of knowledge of process details, code quality appears good
[15:51] <meetingology> +1 very good endorsements, good amount of knowledge of process details, code quality appears good received from ddstreet
[15:51] <teward> +1 good endorsements, good knowledge of process details, but I strongly encourage asking for assistance if you encounter something 'odd' or which you're not familiar with (which is good advice in general)
[15:51] <meetingology> +1 good endorsements, good knowledge of process details, but I strongly encourage asking for assistance if you encounter something 'odd' or which you're not familiar with (which is good advice in general) received from teward
[15:52] <teward> (which echoes sil and xnox's endorsement notes)
[15:52] <teward> also, more main package activity please :)
[15:52] <teward> (not a blocker)
[15:52] <rbasak> +1 strong endorsements, excellent track record of uploads and broad enough knowledge of Ubuntu development process.
[15:52] <meetingology> +1 strong endorsements, excellent track record of uploads and broad enough knowledge of Ubuntu development process. received from rbasak
[15:53] <sil2100> +1 (obviously as I have endorsed Lukas already, even though he is missing some experience, I am fully confident that he's capable of doing the right thing - and seeing his drive and passion regarding Ubuntu maintenance, he'll do just fine)
[15:53] <meetingology> +1 (obviously as I have endorsed Lukas already, even though he is missing some experience, I am fully confident that he's capable of doing the right thing - and seeing his drive and passion regarding Ubuntu maintenance, he'll do just fine) received from sil2100
[15:53] <rbasak> Caveat: I think you broadly understand seeds and package transitions, but I'm not sure your exactly on point in the details. Please confirm your understanding with your colleagues before you touch these areas unsupervised, and look out for accidentally starting a transition when you didn't intend it.
[15:53] <slyon> Yes. I have a nice group of core-devs in my team, who I can (and will) ask questions
[15:53] <rbasak> *you're
[15:53] <teward> rbasak: sounds like the caveat the previous DMB gave me when I got core-dev.  :)
[15:53] <slyon> rbasak: will do for sure!
[15:53] <teward> (that's something everyone should get as advice though, imo)
[15:53] <sil2100> Excellent!
[15:53] <teward> well with that, i think we have quorum here.
[15:53] <sil2100> #endvote
[15:53] <meetingology> Voting ended on: Lukas 'slyon' Märdian for Ubuntu Core Developer membership
[15:53] <meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
[15:53] <meetingology> Motion carried
[15:54] <sil2100> slyon: wow, congratulations!
[15:54] <ddstreet> congratulations!
[15:54] <rbalint> slyon, congratulations, welcome the the Core Dev Team, too! :-)
[15:54] <slyon> \o/ awesome, thanks folks!
[15:54] <teward> So: slyon: motu dismissed, PPU dismissed, coredev approved.  Welcome to the core dev team :)
[15:54] <sil2100> Keep up the good work and don't hesitate to ask questions, we're all here to help!
[15:54] <rbasak> Congratulations!
[15:54] <slyon> wow this is really great
[15:54] <teward> yep, we are.  never be afraid to ask where you're unsure
[15:54] <teward> (best advice I've ever gotten - from rbasak xD)
[15:54] <teward> xnox: rbalint: cpaelzer: thanks for your response to our pings, i know it is a minor interruption to your day, but it's appreciated :)
[15:55] <sil2100> #topic AOB
[15:55] <rbasak> Thanks :)
[15:55] <slyon> Yes. I will absolutely continue to learn about all the details
[15:55] <sil2100> Any other business?
[15:55] <sil2100> Let me deal with the permissions and announcement
[15:55] <sil2100> #action sil2100 to add slyon to core-dev
[15:55] <meetingology> ACTION: sil2100 to add slyon to core-dev
[15:55] <sil2100> #action sil2100 to announce slyon's successful application
[15:55] <meetingology> ACTION: sil2100 to announce slyon's successful application
[15:56] <teward> #subtopic Meeting FYI
[15:56] <teward> Just an FYI: we have no DMB meetings until January thanks to the holidays.
[15:56] <teward> next DMB meeting will be January 11
[15:56] <sil2100> Oh, indeed!
[15:56] <teward> (this has been the case since the November meetings where we agreed to skip the holiday timeperiod's chaos.)
[15:56] <teward> (also, +o so meetingology lets me run special commands xD)
[15:56] <sil2100> Have a nice EOY everyone!
[15:57] <slyon> indeed, happy holidays everyone!
[15:57] <sil2100> Let's wrap it up then
[15:57] <teward> sil2100: same to you as well!
[15:57] <sil2100> #endmeeting
[15:57] <meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Dec 14 15:57:14 2020 UTC.
[15:57] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2020/ubuntu-meeting.2020-12-14-15.00.moin.txt
[15:57] <ddstreet> thanks all, happy holidays o/
[15:57] <sil2100> Thanks o/
[15:57] <teward> thak you all! o/
[15:57] <slyon> o/


[10:46] <alumik> hello
[10:46] <alumik> any launchpad admin here?
[10:47] <alumik> i have a problem with the registration
[10:47] <spiv> I work on launchpad, but I'm not an admin.
[10:47] <spiv> Hmm, I can probably help with that though :)
[10:47] <alumik> ok
[10:47] <spiv> Use the Join link at http://www.ubuntu.com/, it's the same account database.
[10:47] <alumik> i have received the mail to activate the account
[10:47] <spiv> Yeah, known issue :(
[10:48] <alumik> ah, ok :)
[10:48] <spiv> Will be fixed soon, I hope.
[10:48] <alumik> so, there is no way to register right now?
[10:48] <spiv> Register at http://www.ubuntu.com/
[10:48] <alumik> ok, thanks
[10:49] <spiv> The account you make there will also be a launchpad account.
[10:11] <kiko> bradb!
[10:11] <bradb> yo!
[10:11] <kiko> bradb, no neuros luck -- no phone luck with them either?
[10:11] <bradb> haven't phoned yet dude
[10:11] <bradb> i can only do three things at once :P
[10:12] <kiko> thanks


[22:36] <Getty> hiho guys... aehm i'm new to upstart and i'm debian user, just to drop out the most important ;) i added a new .conf script (like i did before) but this script doesnt work... if i do initctl stop of it, it just hangs, and the initctl list says its running on a process id, but that one doesnt exist
[22:36] <Getty> i can exec the command by myself on shell, so that seems ok
[22:50] <Getty> i always need to reboot then its fixed...
[22:51] <Getty> that scares me
[22:52] <JanC> Getty: that sounds like you have a forking process and the current version of upstart can't "follow the forking"
[22:52] <JanC> so basically it's looking at the wrong process
[22:53] <Getty> its something that forks, yes, but the startup process stays (php-cgi spawns for fastcgi)
[22:53] <Getty> expect fork is there
[22:53] <Getty> my problem is actually that initctl "hangs" on a process that doesnt exist
[22:53] <Getty> what he do?
[22:54] <Getty> and what i could do beside reboot to fix that kind of stuff?
[22:54] <JanC> what do you mean by "the startup process stays"?
[22:54] <JanC> the process run from the job stays around?
[22:54] <Getty> it doesnt fork and is gone, it starts and generates forks but still runs
[22:55] <Getty> its even a foreground process
[22:55] <JanC> then don't use "expect fork"
[22:55] <Getty> oh
[22:55] <Getty> i got that out of the example of someone who use it that way
[22:55] <Getty> and i mean it works now... after reboot
[22:55] <ion> Don’t use ‘expect’ if you’re not 100 % sure of the forking behavior of the main process. That will confuse Upstart. Here’s a nasty kluge to force Upstart back into a good state without rebooting: http://heh.fi/tmp/workaround-upstart-snafu
[22:56] <Getty> ruby code is strange
[22:56] <JanC> I was just going to find my bookmark for ion's "nast kludge"   ;)
[22:57] <JanC> Getty: it just creates new processes until the expected PID exists again
[22:57] <Getty> on stop?!
[22:57] <Getty> of a non existing process?
[22:57] <Getty> 8-)
[22:57] <Getty> on start i'm with you, but not on stop
[22:57] <JanC> once it exists again, you can "stop" it  ;-)
[22:58] <Getty> ok ok... back to what happened
[22:58] <Getty> i made the .conf script, reload-configuration, started it
[22:58] <Getty> saw that it had a mistake
[22:58] <Getty> stopped it => hang... ctrl-c worked, check ps list, its gone
[22:58] <ion> A future release of Upstart will have better code to follow forks. The current implementation can be broken easily by telling Upstart to ‘expect’ one thing and having the main process do something else.
[22:58] <Getty> check initctl list, says stop/killed
[22:58] <Getty> doing start => hang, ctrl-c worked, check ps list, nothing there
[22:59] <Getty> initctl says start/running with a process id that doesnt exist
[22:59] <Getty> initctl stop => hang
[22:59] <ion> ‘workaround-upstart-snafu N’ where N is the pid from initctl status.
[22:59] <ion> the nonexistent pid
[22:59] <Getty> ah! cool ok
[22:59] <Getty> i can life with workaround if i have some! :)
[22:59] <Getty> upstart is really nice
[23:03] <JanC> Getty: not using expect is a better solution if you don't really need it anyway
[23:03] <Getty> JanC: oh i will check on this anyway, i just wanted that workaround for same situations
[23:04] <JanC> yeah, it's probably more convenient than rebooting  ;)
[23:04] <Getty> its a xen so i dont have THAT kind of a feeling to reboot
[23:05] <Getty> also.... i guess as long as no productive site is running on it and i still "learn" with upstart, i guess its good to reboot anyway some more often


[14:52] <mup> Bug #2036759 opened: Adding a custom MAAS sstreams image source without trailing / fails <cpe-onsite> <MAAS:Triaged by r00ta> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/2036759>
[14:55] <mup> Bug #2036759 changed: Adding a custom MAAS sstreams image source without trailing / fails <cpe-onsite> <MAAS:Triaged by r00ta> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/2036759>
[14:58] <mup> Bug #2036759 opened: Adding a custom MAAS sstreams image source without trailing / fails <cpe-onsite> <MAAS:Triaged by r00ta> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/2036759>


[02:34] <MarkDude> Magandang hapon.  (If its that time for you.) Magandang hipon (if you're eating great shrimp.)


[20:15] <falconeer> hi i need some help
[20:21] <falconeer> anyone here?
[20:22] <micahg> !support | falconeer
[20:22] <ubot2> falconeer: The official ubuntu support channel is #ubuntu. Also see http://ubuntu.com/support and http://ubuntuforums.org and http://askubuntu.com
[20:22] <falconeer> have you seen the ubuntu channel lately?
[21:53] <falconeer> hi i need help
[21:53] <falconeer> can anyone help me?
[21:54] <falconeer> please?
[21:58] <chrisccoulson> falconeer, this isn't a support channel. and in any case, most of the people that hang around here normally won't be back until tomorrow
[21:59] <falconeer> i know this aint a support channel but have you seen #ubuntu latley?


[02:06] <ahoneybun> mm hitting this: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/23074440/
[02:06] <ahoneybun> I added the home plug and still there
[02:07] <ahoneybun> tsimonq2, otter-browser works
[10:58] <mup> PR snapd#1712 closed: asserts/sysdb: embed the new format official root/trusted assertions <Critical> <Created by pedronis> <Merged by pedronis> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/1712>
[15:49] <mup> PR snapd#1715 opened: asserts,overlord/devicestate: simplify private key/key pairs APIs, they just key ids <Created by pedronis> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/1715>
[17:15] <mup> PR snapd#1716 opened: tests. this seems to improve the situation regarding flaky stopping of fakestore <Created by pedronis> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/1716>
[17:33] <Birchy> is there any way to detect what interfaces my application uses? I'm having problems with confinement
[17:47] <ogra> Birchy, snap interfaces should list all connected plugs and interfaces
[17:48] <ogra> beyond that, you can look for DENIED messages in syslog
[17:48] <ogra> if you suspect your app tries to use something that isnt connected
[17:49] <Birchy> thank you, that's quite helpful, I didn't know syslog logged that
[17:52] <mup> PR snapd#1716 closed: tests: this seems to improve the situation regarding flaky stopping of fakestore <Created by pedronis> <Merged by pedronis> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/1716>
[18:42] <ali1234> how exactly does the stage packages stuff work?
[20:45] <Birchy> I've found something odd about SDL2 in Snappy, it fails with "Bad system call" because it tries to create a Unix socket but fails
[20:45] <Birchy> Is this expected?
[20:45] <Birchy> I had to add the permissions for network and network-bind for it to launch successfully