[15:42] <luna_> hellos :)
[23:00] <teward> *waves to the CC members*
[23:00] <Eickmeyer> o/
[23:00] <toddy> Hi everybody
[23:00] <teward> i'mma give it a couple minutes for the rest of the CC people to show up then start the meeting :
[23:00] <teward> :) *
[23:01] <wxl> oh i'm here
[23:01] <wxl> hopefully there's at least three more of us
[23:01] <teward> hopefully hence the few extra minutes
[23:01] <wxl> jose: wake up
[23:02] <jose> i'm here
[23:02] <jose> i was just getting ice cream
[23:03] <sarnold> mm ice cream
[23:03] <Eickmeyer> ^ Indeed.
[23:04] <teward> right-o, so this is most of us, i'll start if none of the other CC members object?
[23:04] <jose> no objections
[23:04] <Eickmeyer> No objections
[23:04] <wxl> no objections from me (although i allow for the possibility of others having objections) XD
[23:04] <toddy> no objections
[23:04] <Eickmeyer> O_o
[23:05] <teward> #startmeeting Community Council Meeting - November 4th, 2020
[23:05] <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Nov  4 23:05:17 2020 UTC.  The chair is teward. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[23:05] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[23:05] <teward> #chair Eickmeyer toddy wxl jose
[23:05] <meetingology> Current chairs: Eickmeyer jose teward toddy wxl
[23:05] <teward> #topic Greetings from the New Community Council
[23:05] <wxl> hello!
[23:05] <jose> o/
[23:05] <Eickmeyer> Like a launch from a rocket.
[23:06] <Eickmeyer> o/
[23:06] <wxl> ok, so that's done X'D
[23:06] <toddy> :)
[23:06] <Eickmeyer> So uh... what now?
[23:06] <teward> Hello everyone, welcome to the first meeting of the brand new Community Council and its members.  The CC has been vacant for some time, and only recently has Mark (SABDFL) gone and restaffed it.  We hope to be here to help the community at large and fulfill the role of the CC that has needed to exist for some time.
[23:06] <teward> (because i'm specific that way heh)
[23:07] <Eickmeyer> Specifity FTW!
[23:07] <teward> for the most part this is an introductory meeting, introducing the new CC and its current goals, moreso than acting on any current action items, as the last time the CC had a meeting was 2018 if I'm not mistaken.
[23:07] <wxl> yup
[23:07] <toddy> long time ago
[23:08] <teward> The Council may be brand new, but for the most part we are intending to be here to handle issues that arise within the Community at large (such as whether we join GSoC among other things, or issues that arise that need community-level governance rather than a specific team that's been delegated powers to look at)
[23:09] <teward> As has been stated for a while, the Community Council is the primary community (non-technical) governance body for the Ubuntu project.  Anything that one feels needs Community COuncil attention can be added to our agenda, provided that it is added at least 24 hours in advance of the next meeting time.  And we intend, as done historically, to meet every two weeks
[23:10] <teward> on the 1st and 3rd Wednesdays of each month (unless we choose to reschedule a meeting, such as due to holidays or such.)
[23:10] <wxl> Here's the official docmentation on the subject of agendas and schedule https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/community-council-meeting-agendas-schedule/708
[23:10] <teward> #link https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/community-council-meeting-agendas-schedule/708
[23:10] <wxl> (which, FYI, is also where you end up if you click on the link in the Fridge calendar)
[23:11] <teward> Keep in mind that while we're the primary community governance body for the Project, we do have some of our powers and responsibilities delegated out to other teams - such as approval of Ubuntu membership.  So not every issue needs to necessarily be reviewed by the Community Council if it should otherwise pass through a more specific council that has been delegated to handle some of the powers.
[23:12] <teward> If you have any community-related queries or questions, or want to contact the Community Council, the best way to do that is to email<EMAIL_ADDRESS>- this will reach all of us and we will be able to review messages that come in.
[23:13] <teward> We hope to be able to serve the Community at large well, as the Community Councils in the past have done, and hope to live up to everyone's expectations for governance of the community for the Ubuntu Project!
[23:13] <teward> If anyone has anything they'd like to bring up specifically, feel free to speak up now!
[23:13] <teward> #topic Comments, Questions, Concerns, etc. Anyone?
[23:13] <wxl> On the subject of governance and delegation, these are relevant:
[23:13] <wxl> https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/delegation/711
[23:13] <wxl> https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/restaffing/890 (which lists every board and council)
[23:14] <wxl> Barring any additional input, shall we discuss our work on the aforementioned councils and boards?
[23:15] <teward> No objections here, it would be a good thing to show our work on the aforementioned councils and boards.  Though I have one thing i should probably mention RE: one of the listed councils/boards on that page.
[23:15] <teward> #topic Our Work on the delegated Councils and Boards
[23:16] <jose> go ahead?
[23:16] <teward> A note of import: the Edubuntu project is long since dead.  It may be prudent to dissolve the Edubuntu Board listed on the delegations page, as the Edubuntu variant and goal of Ubuntu has been decommissioned.  (the DMB has even gone ahead with the process of removal of edubuntu as a delegated upload set though I don't know if we fully completed that)
[23:17] <teward> (for the record, when I say 'we' in relation to that task, I mean the DMB - while I am a CC member, I also am on the Developer Membership Board)
[23:17] <teward> so it is possible we will dissolve the Edubuntu Board as that project and variant as such has been discontinued.
[23:17] <teward> now onto the other boards and councils
[23:17] <wxl> i can work on removing them from the documentation
[23:17] <teward> s/Edubuntu Board/Edubuntu Council/g
[23:17] <wxl> if you want to make an item for me to work on
[23:18] <teward> #action wxl to begin work on removing Edubuntu Council from documentation as the Edubuntu project is long-dead
[23:18] <meetingology> ACTION: wxl to begin work on removing Edubuntu Council from documentation as the Edubuntu project is long-dead
[23:18] <teward> yep :)
[23:18] <teward> now as for work on the other boards, wxl would you like to take over on that?
[23:18] <teward> and explain what we've done so far :0
[23:18] <teward> :) *
[23:18] <wxl> sure
[23:19] <wxl> We've issues calls for nominees for two of the boards/councils that are currently empty, just like the CC was
[23:19] <wxl> the membership board: https://fridge.ubuntu.com/2020/11/03/ubuntu-membership-boards-call-for-nominations/
[23:19] <wxl> and the LoCo Council: https://fridge.ubuntu.com/2020/10/29/call-for-nominations-for-the-local-communities-council/
[23:20] <teward> (note that that does not include the Developer Membership Board which is under the purview of the Technical Board, only the general non-technical membership board(s))
[23:20] <wxl> on that subject
[23:20] <wxl> the technical board is soon to expire and we're working on the process there, too https://launchpad.net/~techboard/+members#active
[23:22] <wxl> beyond that, we have it on the agenda to generally check the other councils and boards but have not made any other progress there yet
[23:22] <wxl> we'll be following all of that work with further refining the documentation, as there are a few gaps
[23:22] <wxl> brb emergency
[23:23] <Eickmeyer> O_O
[23:23] <teward> (I just dropped off due to irc client problems, oops)
[23:24] <jose> we might want to tell people where we're tracking work
[23:25] <teward> feel free jose (wxl disappearified for an emergency I think?)
[23:25] <toddy> Yes we track the work at launchpad as bugs
[23:25] <jose> so we're using launchpad.net/communitycouncil/ to track all of our work
[23:25] <jose> under the Bugs section, you are able to see our active work items
[23:26] <jose> there might be private stuff that's not listed to the world, but if you have any questions, you can always reach out to us
[23:27] <jose> we're currently missing an owner for the TB reelection process - who would like to take point on that?
[23:29] <jose> I heard that teward is volunteering?
[23:29] <teward> yep i'll volunteer to help track the reelection process
[23:29] <Eickmeyer> I heard that too.
[23:29] <toddy> yes, that is true
[23:29] <jose> assigned!
[23:29] <teward> barring any new chaos from the universe regarding the Virus or other things that are emergency level things I'll handle those bits.
[23:30] <jose> we might not have enough time to get nominations + run a poll + set in the new members
[23:30] <teward> #action teward to track and handle TB reelection process
[23:30] <meetingology> ACTION: teward to track and handle TB reelection process
[23:30] <jose> how much time do you estimate you're gonna need total, teward ?
[23:30] <Eickmeyer> We might have to extend current memberships.
[23:31] <teward> jose: if we use the CC reelection as a base, then i'd say 4 weeks approx.  2 for nominations to come on, about a day for me/us to shortlist and send to Mark, however long for Mark to get back to us, and then 2 weeks for the actual election
[23:31] <teward> so I'd say we should extend the existing TB members for the time being until we get everything in place
[23:31] <jose> from what i see in the instructions, Mark nominates candidates directly, there's no call for nominations
[23:31] <teward> then I'll poke mark then it's 2 weeks
[23:31] <teward> so i'd estimate 3 unless Mark is faster on it (and I'll write that poke up after this meeting)
[23:31] <jose> so would you say 3 weeks is an accurate estimte?
[23:32] <jose> okay perf
[23:32] <Eickmeyer> Very similar to the CC in that regard.
[23:32] <teward> jose: yes, approx. 3 weeks, to be adjusted if necessary
[23:32] <teward> Eickmeyer: indeed.
[23:32] <jose> 3 weeks from today is the 25th and TB expires in the 21st
[23:32] <jose> I'll hope that Mark gets back to you faster and we can launch the poll asap
[23:32] <teward> I have no objections to extending TB to End of Month to give a few extra days in case Mark is busy
[23:32] <teward> extending existing TB*
[23:33] <jose> I'd say let's hear back from mark and then decide
[23:33] <jose> just so that we don't extend in vain, or we don't under-extend
[23:33] <jose> whatcha think
[23:33] <teward> works for me, we'll add that as an agenda/vote item for next meeting to follow up on (as well as internally until that point)
[23:34] <toddy> sounds good
[23:34] <cjwatson> In the past I think Mark has asked around informally for suggestions for nominees, and of course that takes a while
[23:34] <Eickmeyer> Should we give Mark ~2-3 weeks?
[23:35] <jose> I'm estimating it at 3 weeks total but contingent on Mark getting back to us, so it's actually 2 weeks from the date Mark gets back to us
[23:35] <teward> we can do that, in which case we definitely will need to extend existing TB membership if we don't have a list by next meeting.
[23:35] <Eickmeyer> Agreed. I think extending them through Nov 30 is a good place to start for now.
[23:35] <Eickmeyer> Of couse, we can't indefinitely extend, but it's a start.
[23:35] <cjwatson> (I wasn't disagreeing with anyone BTW, just adding a bit more background)
[23:36] <Eickmeyer> cjwatson: It was appreciated. :)
[23:36] <jose> yup yup
[23:36] <teward> no objections, shall we vote on that, CC members, for now extending existing TB through Nov. 30 to give mark and everyone time?
[23:36] <teward> (for formality sake)
[23:36] <Eickmeyer> Let's do it.
[23:36] <jose> I want to avoid extending today and then extending next meeting and then extending again in 4 weeks
[23:36] <jose> but let's put it to a vote if you'd like.
[23:37] <teward> jose: if we extend to the 30th, that gives Mark three weeks to start, if we want to be safe we should extend through Dec. 31
[23:37] <teward> just in case it takes Mark ~3-4 weeks to get back with a list
[23:37] <teward> (I have zero idea how busy Mark is, but I assume it's Very Busy(TM) so...)
[23:37] <teward> we can push taht discussion off to next meeting
[23:37] <teward> and i'll add it to next meeting's agenda items
[23:37] <teward> anything else for us to address today?
[23:38] <teward> cjwatson: thanks for your input by the way, always appreciated :)
[23:38] <Eickmeyer> Next meeting is in two weeks, but don't we need to come up with an extension now?
[23:39] <teward> if TB expires on the 21st, next meeting is the 18th, a good 7 days before they expire
[23:39] <Eickmeyer> Ok, that works. We can worry about it next meeting then.
[23:39] <teward> yep
[23:39] <teward> and in a pinch if for some reason our dates are inaccurate then we'll extend as necessary.
[23:40] <jose> yup!
[23:40] <teward> 3 days to expiry not 7*
[23:40] <teward> alright, so any other business that we need to address here today?
[23:40] <Eickmeyer> You mathed wrong. :P XD
[23:40] <teward> Eickmeyer: the coffee maker is broken so :P
[23:40] <Eickmeyer> Oof, my condolances.
[23:40] <teward> you know us tech people like coffee ;)  (and yes some of us are techies)
[23:42] <Eickmeyer> Alright, moving on?
[23:42] <wxl> ok i'm back
[23:42] <jose> wb!
[23:42] <teward> welcome back wxl, hopefully things're good on your end :)
[23:42] <toddy> wxl: welcome back
[23:42] <Eickmeyer> Hope everything is OK, wxl.
[23:43] <wxl> it's as good as it can be: not currently on fire :)
[23:43] <wxl> anywho
[23:44] <wxl> the other thing i wanted to add to the council/board discussion is that the cc used to have a check in process to ensure that the boards/councils have everything they need. this is something we need to better document.
[23:44] <Eickmeyer> Agreed, wxl. I'm sure a lot of the documentation is outdated and/or nonexistant.
[23:44] <wxl> mark also suggested a map of boards/councils so that will likely get added to the documentation soon.
[23:44] <teward> agreed overall here, including on a map of the boards/councils
[23:45] <toddy> +1
[23:45] <teward> do we already have an action item for that in our tracker?
[23:45] <toddy> I see no item for that
[23:45] <wxl> they're on our informal list and need to be moved to launchpad bugs
[23:45] <teward> +1
[23:45] <toddy> ok
[23:46] <jose> I'd say that we need an action item to move those items over
[23:46] <jose> wxl, I voluntell you since you put together the initial pad and know it better than myself
[23:46] <jose> but feel free to object and someone else can step up
[23:46] <wxl> jose: go for it
[23:46] <Eickmeyer> XD
[23:46] <jose> #action: wxl will move items from our temp working pad into Launchpad
[23:47] <meetingology> ACTION: : wxl will move items from our temp working pad into Launchpad
[23:47] <teward> #action wxl to move initial action items from our informal list to actual bugs/tasks in the CC tracker on Launchpad
[23:47] <meetingology> ACTION: wxl to move initial action items from our informal list to actual bugs/tasks in the CC tracker on Launchpad
[23:47] <teward> hah same idea at the same time xD
[23:47] <Eickmeyer> JINX... except I didn't say it.
[23:47] <teward> great minds think alike :)
[23:49] <teward> awesome.  any other things for our meeting today?
[23:49] <jose> I'd say not?
[23:49] <wxl> nope
[23:50] <Eickmeyer> I've got nothing.
[23:50] <toddy> nope
[23:50] <teward> #topic Any Other Business
[23:50] <teward> #subtopic Next CC Meeting Date and Time
[23:51] <Eickmeyer> Same bat time, same bat channel, two weeks (Nov 18th).
[23:51] <jose> it's in the fridge
[23:51]  * jose runs to the kitchen
[23:51] <Eickmeyer> ^ Needs more ice cream.
[23:51] <teward> The next CC meeting will be held two weeks from now, November 18th, at the same time, 23:00 UTC.  If you have anything to bring up for the CC, please do so before the meeting by adding it to the agenda or sending the CC an email.
[23:51] <cjwatson> Thanks for stepping up to the CC!
[23:51] <teward> #info Next meeting: November 18, 2020, 23:00 UTC
[23:51] <teward> cjwatson: our pleasure!
[23:51] <teward> and thank you for thanking us :)
[23:51] <Eickmeyer> Glad to be here, cjwatson. :)
[23:52] <toddy> cjwatson: thanks
[23:52] <teward> and also, a wider thank you to the Ubuntu Members who have put their faith in us to do our duties as CC members and to help lead and guide the community at large!
[23:52] <wxl> here here
[23:52] <Eickmeyer> ^ What he said.
[23:52] <jose> indeed!
[23:53] <wxl> um, hear hear?
[23:53] <teward> #endmeeting
[23:53] <meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Nov  4 23:53:04 2020 UTC.
[23:53] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2020/ubuntu-meeting.2020-11-04-23.05.moin.txt
[23:53] <teward> heh wxl :P
[23:53] <Eickmeyer> HAHAHA
[23:53] <jose> urgh I missed my shot to say "there there"
[23:53] <teward> lol xD
[23:53] <teward> thanks everyone!
[23:53] <Eickmeyer> HAHAAHAA
[23:53] <Eickmeyer> Thanks for chairing, teward!
[23:53] <toddy> thanks teward for chairing the meeting
[23:54] <teward> happy to do so :)
[23:54] <teward> one of the things I can do effectively :)
[23:54] <wxl> then we hereby nominate you as permanent chair XD
[23:54] <teward> hah
[23:54] <teward> works for me xD


[16:00] <rbalint> o/
[16:00] <juliank> o/
[16:00] <sil2100> o/
[16:01] <sil2100> #startmeeting Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team
[16:01] <meetingology> Meeting started Thu Nov 28 16:01:13 2019 UTC.  The chair is sil2100. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[16:01] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[16:01] <sil2100> #topic Lightning rounds
[16:01] <sil2100> echo $(shuf -e vorlon bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity cyphermox mwhudson juliank waveform)
[16:01] <sil2100> bdmurray cyphermox vorlon xnox rbalint doko tdaitx sil2100 mwhudson infinity juliank waveform
[16:01] <sil2100> I guess bdmurray is off today?
[16:02] <sil2100> cyphermox: ^
[16:03] <cyphermox> yep
[16:03] <cyphermox> -shim rviews
[16:03] <cyphermox> - netplan NM plugin: building libnetplan, compiling against it for NM reader code
[16:03] <cyphermox> - grub bionic SRU for loopback support
[16:04] <cyphermox> - preparing walinuxagent update and testing that
[16:04] <cyphermox> (done)
[16:04] <sil2100> vorlon is off today, so xnox: ^
[16:05] <sil2100> I guess no xnox around?
[16:05] <sil2100> rbalint: ^
[16:05] <rbalint> * partner work
[16:05] <rbalint> * fix & SRUs for LP: #1853343
[16:05] <rbalint> * triaging & SRUs for LP: #1853861
[16:05] <rbalint> * uploaded vmdk-stream-converter to experimental again
[16:05] <rbalint> * merges: console-setup, acpid
[16:05] <rbalint> * trainings
[16:05] <rbalint> * fix and SRU for LP: #1848211 , in focal-proposed
[16:05] <rbalint> (done)
[16:06] <sil2100> doko: ^
[16:07] <sil2100> Ok, let's skip doko as well
[16:07] <sil2100> tdaitx: ^
[16:07] <tdaitx> * dl-lookup error on libjawt (LP: #1838740)
[16:07] <tdaitx>   - comparing results with adoptopenjdk jdk-11 build
[16:07] <tdaitx>   - openjdk-lts rebuilds to test some changes
[16:07] <tdaitx> * apport fixes (LP: #1851806)
[16:07] <tdaitx> * openjdk reports on error tracker
[16:07] <tdaitx> (done)
[16:08] <tdaitx> sil2100: go ahead ;-)
[16:08] <sil2100> - Kernel reviews, lots of different kernel cranking
[16:08] <sil2100> - SRU reviews and releases
[16:08] <sil2100> - Work on new Pi images and stuff
[16:08] <sil2100> - Training
[16:08] <sil2100> - Did more testing of the langpack sanity-report, merged it to l-o-m
[16:08] <sil2100> - Uploaded ubuntu-image 1.8 to focal and the SRU queues, waiting for review
[16:08] <sil2100> - Looked into ubuntu-image system-boot partition not having expected label - all good
[16:08] <sil2100> - Did some test builds of the imx6 images - some livecd-rootfs/cdimage changes needed for multi-volume support
[16:08] <sil2100> - Investigating screen-reader not staying enabled after installation on the target system
[16:08] <sil2100>   * This seemed to have regressed with our switch to gnome
[16:08] <sil2100> - Booking travel
[16:08] <sil2100> (done)
[16:09] <doko> oops
[16:09] <doko> - Python 3.6/3.7 backports now in bionic/cosmic/eoan
[16:09] <doko> - binutils 2.34 packaging done.
[16:09] <doko> - Updated GCC packaging to not build all the -dbg packages
[16:09] <doko> - Started with GCC 10 packaging. Need to get this into a state that I can do test rebuilds before the Christmas break.
[16:09] <doko> - Some Python2 removal / Python 3.8 work.
[16:09] <doko> (done)
[16:09] <juliank> no mwhudson, no infinity probably
[16:09] <juliank> * working half days
[16:09] <juliank> * Merged a ton of APT and python-apt merge requests
[16:09] <juliank> * More APT patterns
[16:09] <juliank> * Debugged why apt 1.8.4 sru fails tests (need to sru https://git.dpkg.org/cgit/dpkg/dpkg.git/diff/?id=6e42d508d)
[16:09] <juliank> (done)
[16:09] <juliank> waveform:
[16:09] <waveform> * Testing several arm64 pi images related to LP: #1854347
[16:09] <waveform> - Numerous theories tested including boot script contents, header contents, CRC calculations, and finally low-level file-system details (ubuntu-image using mcopy to populate the fs); nothing has panned out so far, although several possibilities have been verifiably eliminated
[16:09] <waveform> - Prepped reverted flash-kernel as a temporary fix until root cause can be established
[16:09] <waveform> - Tested arm64 image built with reverted flash-kernel; boots successfully on 3, 3+, and 4
[16:09] <waveform> * Verified LP: #1311056, investigating patches
[16:09] <waveform> (done)
[16:11] <sil2100> #topic Release incoming bugs
[16:11] <sil2100> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-dd-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
[16:11] <sil2100> Whoops
[16:11] <sil2100> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ff-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
[16:12] <sil2100> Let's do this!
[16:13] <sil2100> LP: #1845529 - did someone pick this one up?
[16:13] <sil2100> Since it feels familiar
[16:14] <sil2100> Let's card it
[16:17] <sil2100> LP: #1852772
[16:18] <sil2100> This might be easy to fix
[16:18] <sil2100> Anyone want to pick that up? I see Corey already has a proposed fix
[16:18] <sil2100> Might be just a matter of releasing that
[16:18] <sil2100> Any volunteers?
[16:19] <sil2100> Ok, let's card it for now
[16:20] <sil2100> LP: #1852773
[16:20] <sil2100> Another one that seems to be solved?
[16:21] <sil2100> Ok, so that's on cyphermox!
[16:21] <sil2100> He'll make it all better
[16:21] <sil2100> ;)
[16:22] <sil2100> Let's move on
[16:22] <sil2100> #topic Team proposed-migration report
[16:22] <sil2100> #link http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses_by_team.html#foundations-bugs
[16:23] <sil2100> hm, ok, that's a lot of packages and actually not a lot of us around today
[16:23] <sil2100> Is anyone working on any of those currently?
[16:23] <rbalint> mines are: python-colorama/valinor, dijitso, libcap2
[16:23] <sil2100> rbalint: I also see systemd blocking a few
[16:24] <sil2100> rbalint: could you take a look at those if you have cycles?
[16:24] <rbalint> sil2100, sure
[16:24] <juliank> I could look at lz4 blocked by mysql and/or gawk blocked by txt2man
[16:24] <sil2100> Thanks guys
[16:25] <sil2100> Anyone else wants to pick something up while we're at it?
[16:25] <doko> juliank: lz4 needs a MIR, llvm started depending on it
[16:25] <waveform> I can check some of the things blocking psycopg2
[16:25] <sil2100> We're lacking in people so we won't be able to get all assigned
[16:26] <waveform> yeah, I'll take postgresql-multicorn and possibly another (just checking)
[16:26] <doko> shouldn't we leave the postgres stuff to the server team?
[16:26] <juliank> doko: ok
[16:27] <sil2100> doko: we could, but I guess it's also something waveform knows, so maybe he could just 'fix it'
[16:27] <sil2100> hm, I could try looking at the apport ones, but I didn't look into what's up there yet
[16:29] <sil2100> Ok, I guess that's as much as we can do here right now
[16:29] <sil2100> #topic AOB
[16:29] <sil2100> Everyone booked for travel?
[16:30] <juliank> missing #topic Chair selection for next meeting?
[16:30] <cyphermox> yep
[16:30] <juliank> yes
[16:30] <waveform> yup
[16:30] <sil2100> juliank: we don't do that anymore!
[16:30] <juliank> hmm
[16:30] <sil2100> juliank: you've been out for too long!
[16:30] <sil2100> juliank: so nowadays bdmurray is always the chair, I'm filling up for him since he said he might be out
[16:31] <sil2100> Because of turkey
[16:31] <juliank> yes, true
[16:31] <juliank> template needs update :D
[16:31] <sil2100> s/up/in?
[16:31] <sil2100> juliank: I don't see it on cyphermox's template though!
[16:31] <juliank> but on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/MeetingScript
[16:31] <sil2100> Ah
[16:32] <sil2100> I didn't even know about that one
[16:32] <cyphermox> well it's also usually bdmurray now
[16:32] <juliank> yup
[16:32] <sil2100> #endmeeting
[16:32] <meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Nov 28 16:32:26 2019 UTC.
[16:32] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2019/ubuntu-meeting.2019-11-28-16.01.moin.txt
[16:32] <sil2100> o/
[16:32] <rbalint> o/
[16:32] <tdaitx> thanks sil2100!
[18:08]  * mwhudson waves at the meeting


[02:17] <ScottK> Someone should file an FFe asking for baloo-kcmadv to be sync'ed from Debian so I can approve it.
[06:40] <kfunk> Riddell: just a few days ago, d_ed told me that I should just remove the "WIP:" and commit it. but I'm not sure if that's totally true :)
[06:41] <kfunk> d_ed: opinions? ^
[06:42] <kfunk> I'll give it a test run
[06:58] <kfunk> okay, using my patch breaks sddm. cannot log in anymore, it just goes back to the initial screen after entering my password.
[07:01] <valorie> sounds bad
[07:11] <Riddell> kfunk: er really? working fine for me
[07:11] <kfunk> Riddell: uhm...
[07:11] <Riddell> maybe I need to reboot to test
[07:11] <kfunk> didnt reboot either
[07:12] <kfunk> running the Xsession script manually gives me: /etc/X11/Xsession.d/99x11-common_start:5: no such file or directory: /usr/bin/ssh-agent   /usr/bin/gpg-agent --daemon --sh --write-env-file=/home/krf/.gnupg/gpg-agent-info-kerberos /usr/bin/ck-launch-session /usr/bin/dbus-launch --exit-with-session /usr/bin/im-launch x-session-manager
[07:13] <kfunk> I don't even get that error message, since the command itself runs fine when done manually, too
[07:13] <Riddell> I've no idea what that 99x11-common_start does
[07:15] <Riddell> but on the plus side @gotthatfunk followed me on twitter :)
[07:15] <kfunk> Riddell: are you on 14.10 already?
[07:15] <kfunk> Riddell: :D
[07:15] <Riddell> kfunk: yes I am
[07:16] <kfunk> still on 14.04 here
[07:16] <Riddell> old school
[07:17] <kfunk> yep
[07:17] <kfunk> so, indeed. can't login definitely because the Xsession script is returning non-zero for me here.
[07:17] <kfunk> Riddell: can you run /opt/project-neon5/share/sddm/scripts/Xsession in a shell?
[07:17] <kfunk> works?
[07:20] <Riddell> just rebooted, logged in fine
[07:20] <apachelogger> another bash update, wtf
[07:20] <Riddell> and yay gpg agent working
[07:20] <kfunk> Riddell: that makes me kind of sad. my own patch doesn't work for me :(
[07:21] <Riddell> kfunk: http://paste.kde.org/ph8zbmt8m
[07:21] <kfunk> yep. that looks fine
[07:21] <Riddell> kfunk: but nevertheless I'd expect something sensible to happen if an Xsession.d script fails
[07:22] <kfunk> Riddell: yeah...
[07:27] <kfunk> Riddell: hm, anyway. a failing script cannot cause the issue (at least according to the code inside my patch). the Xsession script still continues after all
[07:27] <kfunk> so, I'm not sure what exactly is wrong on my side. the patch looks fine to me.
[07:27] <kfunk> and as long as it works for you...
[07:30] <Riddell> :)
[07:31] <kfunk> upgrading to 14.10, maybe that helps :)
[07:55] <Riddell> plasma 5.1.0 working nice :)
[07:55] <Riddell> I'll copy over to next ppa
[08:02] <Riddell> ScottK: do we know how upstream baloo views baloo-kcmadv ?
[08:23] <lordievader> Good morning.
[08:26] <gandalf> good morning kubuntu hackers. what is the status of kde/plasma 5 in kubuntu 14.10? is it possible to run this at the moment? where can i find up to date instructions to do so? thanks
[08:27] <Riddell> gandalf: we have packages in the next PPA and cdimages built from it
[08:27] <Riddell> gandalf: the beta-2 release worked decently and you're welcome to test it
[08:27] <Riddell> the packages I copied over just now seem to work decently and it would be lovely if you could test those too
[08:28] <gandalf> a few days ago, the next ppa did not work for me, i ended up with a black screen after log in (no nvidia here)
[08:28] <Riddell> it all changes daily so best place for current status is just to ask here, we have beta and next week rc then final releases for wider testing
[08:29] <Riddell> yep, it's all tech preview, thing can break for sure
[08:29] <gandalf> so i would try the next ppa? on some site i saw a second ppa with a cryptic name i cannot remember. is that also mandatory?
[08:29] <Riddell> that's why I pointed you to the beta-2 which I've tested and is decent, and also the packages I copied over today which are working great for me but you'd be the first other person to test them
[08:30] <Riddell> we have the next ppa for packages which are built and have some testing, next-staging is when packages are building there be dragons
[08:31] <gandalf> ok, beta 2 is a dvd image?
[08:36] <Riddell> or usb yes
[08:36] <Riddell> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu-plasma5/releases/utopic/beta-2/
[08:37] <kfunk> Riddell: indeed. in 14.10 it works for me, too
[08:37] <Riddell> spooky
[08:37] <kfunk> so, you can now judge how to handle that
[08:37] <kfunk> :)
[08:37] <Riddell> I can handle it by adding it as a patch to our package
[08:38] <Riddell> not sure how d_ed should handle it upstream
[08:41] <gandalf> ok, thanks, i'll give it a try later
[08:42] <Riddell> let us know how you get on
[08:43] <gandalf> will do
[08:44] <kfunk> Riddell: bah. forget it. talking nonsense
[08:44] <kfunk> I was logging in via lightdm... stupid me.
[08:44] <kfunk> still doesn't work
[08:45] <kfunk> same error
[08:47]  * kfunk hates looking at shell scripts :|
[08:48] <Riddell> kfunk: so sddm on kubuntu 14.10 doesn't work with your patch?
[08:48] <kfunk> nope, still doesn't work for me
[08:48] <soee> good morning
[08:48] <Riddell> and running /usr/share/sddm/scripts/Xsession ?
[08:49] <kfunk> doesn't work
[08:49] <kfunk> trying to find out why
[08:49] <Riddell> hi soee, new plasma 5.1 packages in ppa:next for the testing
[08:49] <kfunk> executing the lightdm counterpart seems to work
[08:49] <Riddell> including sddm with a patch that kfunk can't get to work despite writing it :)
[08:49] <soee> already ? :o
[08:49] <gandalf> i first tried the instructions from the kubuntu website : sudo apt-add-repository ppa:kubuntu-ppa/next && sudo apt update && sudo apt install kubuntu-plasma5-desktop && sudo apt full-upgrade. with that i don't have a kde/plasma login option after rebooting, it seems not all necessary packages were installed? the beta2 image is still downloading
[08:50] <Riddell> gandalf: do you have  /usr/share/xsessions/plasma.desktop  ?
[08:51] <gandalf> no
[08:51] <Riddell> gandalf: then I don't think you have kubuntu-plasma5-desktop installed ?
[08:51] <Riddell>  apt-cache policy kubuntu-plasma5-desktop
[08:52] <gandalf> apt-get says kubuntu-plasma5-desktop would be installed
[08:52] <gandalf> gives
[08:52] <Riddell> then install it?
[08:52] <gandalf> Installiert:           1.0~ppa12
[08:52] <gandalf>   Installationskandidat: 1.0~ppa12
[08:52] <gandalf>   Versionstabelle:
[08:52] <gandalf>  *** 1.0~ppa12 0
[08:52] <gandalf>         500 http://ppa.launchpad.net/kubuntu-ppa/next/ubuntu/ utopic/main amd64 Packages
[08:52] <gandalf>         100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
[08:52] <Riddell> yeah it is installed
[08:53] <Riddell> gandalf:  apt-cache policy plasma-desktop ?
[08:53] <Riddell> (use pastebin when pasting multiple lines)
[08:53] <gandalf> what other packages could be missing?
[08:53] <Riddell> plasma-desktop is what provides /usr/share/xsessions/plasma.desktop
[08:53] <Riddell> which you say is missing
[08:54] <soee> Riddell: should i care: dpkg: warning: libkf5sysguard5-data: configuration file "etc/dbus-1/system.d/org.kde.ksysguard.processlisthelper.conf" is not a file or link (= "/etc/dbus-1/system.d/org.kde.ksysguard.processlisthelper.conf")
[08:54] <gandalf> yes its not there
[08:56] <Riddell> soee: ooh yes you should
[08:56] <Riddell> soee: well spotted, I'll get that fixed, but shouldn't be a problem unless you depend on ksysguard
[08:57] <Riddell> gandalf:  apt-cache policy plasma-desktop ?
[08:57] <kfunk> alright. replacing the *complete* Xsession script of sddm with the one from lightdm just makes it work :/
[08:57] <soee> Riddell: how do i know i i depend on it? Other updates without any problems
[08:57] <gandalf> ok, how to do this pastebin thing?
[08:57] <soee> and sddm shoudl work or not ? :)
[08:58] <valorie> !paste
[08:58] <Mamarok> gandalf: google it? There is a pastebin plasma widget :)
[08:58] <gandalf> ok
[08:59] <gandalf> like that i hope: http://paste.ubuntu.com/8531698/
[09:00] <Riddell> gandalf: you have old stuff installed
[09:01] <Riddell> gandalf: run  sudo apt full-upgrade
[09:01] <soee> @sddm if i reconfigure lightdm and select sddm i have: WARNING: /lib/systemd/system/sddm.service is the selected default display manager but does not exist
[09:01] <Riddell> soee: do you run ksysguard?
[09:01] <soee> Riddell: there is such proces on the list
[09:02] <Riddell> soee: how are you reconfiguring? where's that warning?
[09:02] <soee> Riddell: with sudo dpkg-reconfigure lightdm
[09:02] <soee> picking sddm
[09:02] <kfunk> oh my... it's because of my login shell
[09:02] <gandalf> apt full-upgrade lists many packages which I don't need any more, tells me plasma-desktop is held back, and installs/upgrades nothing
[09:03] <Riddell> kfunk: ooh?
[09:04] <Riddell> gandalf: pastebin?
[09:04] <apachelogger> mh, to note on what soee said... I seem to recall that sddm's debconf integration was somewhat flaky
[09:04] <apachelogger> hope that was fixed meanwhile
[09:04] <gandalf> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8531720/
[09:05] <kfunk> Riddell: my login shell is ZSH. sddm's Xsession script takes a different path in case it detects ZSH.
[09:05] <kfunk> and in that case PATH is not populated properly, hence it fails later on by not finding executables in PATH.
[09:06] <kfunk> I wonder why this thing is trying to be that clever here....
[09:07] <Riddell> kfunk: I'm impressed by your debugging, it does make me wonder the sanity of using zsh :)
[09:07] <apachelogger> gandalf: paste the output of `sudo apt install -o 'Debug::pkgProblemResolver=true'  plasma-desktop` please
[09:07] <kfunk> Riddell: well, zsh is fine. it's this overly clever i-do-different-things-depending-on-$SHELL in SDDM which is worrysome...
[09:08] <gandalf> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8531740/ should I run that?
[09:08] <apachelogger> kfunk: that's not the only thing worrysome about sddm.
[09:09] <Riddell> gandalf: /win 11
[09:09] <Riddell> doh
[09:10] <apachelogger> gandalf: try `sudo apt install -o 'Debug::pkgProblemResolver=true' plasma-desktop kwin`
[09:10] <Riddell> with a LANG=C somewhere in there preferably
[09:11] <gandalf> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8531757/
[09:11] <gandalf> I dont get the /win 11 comment
[09:12] <Riddell> just a typo
[09:12] <gandalf> ok
[09:13] <apachelogger> Riddell: brush up on your german
[09:13] <apachelogger> gandalf: go ahead with the install
[09:14] <gandalf> ok, lets try
[09:14] <apachelogger> it is fun that kwin doesnt' conflict with kde-window-manager but plasma-desktop does xD
[09:14] <apachelogger> such silly
[09:15] <apachelogger> Riddell: what's the plan for making 4->5 upgrades not break half the time?
[09:17] <Riddell> work out what breaks and fix that?
[09:17] <Riddell> are you talking about the issue gandalf just had?
[09:18] <gandalf> ok, thanks, that has helped already. now have a plasma login, which brings me to an empty screen with the standard wallpaper. starting to type in krunner however freezes the system ..
[09:20] <apachelogger> Riddell:  the meta doesn't >= 4:5 respectively >= 5 for frameworks so installing the meta ontop of a plasma-desktop install will not actually force an upgrade (I am not even sure it would help anyway considering most of the stuff is probably recommends)
[09:21] <apachelogger> also I suppose inter-package-wise there are no >= relationships in place so half the desktop is upgraded and the other half is left at the 4.x version
[09:22] <apachelogger> gandalf: please run the same command and this time with plasma-widget-milou-kf5
[09:23] <gandalf> since i currently only have a working text interface on that computer i cant use pastebin. but the command you suggest tells me it would remove kubuntu-plasma5-desktop .. that doesnt sound right to me
[09:24] <apachelogger> gandalf: sudo apt install pastebinit
[09:24] <soee> gandalf: install pastebinit
[09:24] <soee> yup
[09:24] <gandalf> let me try that
[09:24] <apachelogger> then run the same command with -n |pastebinit at the end
[09:25] <sgclark> morning
[09:25] <apachelogger> gandalf: e.g. sudo apt install -o 'Debug::pkgProblemResolver=true' plasma-widget-milou-kf5 -n | pastebinit
[09:25] <Riddell> hola sgclark
[09:25] <soee> Riddell: with the warnign @ libkf5sysguard5-data can i reboot and my system willstart wihout problems ?
[09:26] <Riddell> soee: well who knows, that's the fun of testing
[09:26] <Riddell> soee: but I don't see why not
[09:26] <soee> :)
[09:27] <soee> ah if it works with edgers ppa and new nvidia drviers it should not break
[09:27] <Riddell> apachelogger: that's why instructions for upgrading to plasma5 are always  install meta; run full-upgrade
[09:27] <sgclark> I had this bueaty http://paste.ubuntu.com/8531827/ I am not rebooting!
[09:28] <Riddell> sgclark: you're not the first to highlight that this morning
[09:28] <sgclark> yay 4.14.2 finally there. running
[09:28] <apachelogger> Riddell: yeah, clearly people don't actually do that
[09:30] <soee> back
[09:30] <Riddell> tsdgeos: stable/4.14.2/src/ also contains 4.14.1 tars?
[09:30] <gandalf> that pastebin thing gives me an error "E: Befehlszeilenoption »n« [aus -n] ist nicht bekannt." but no worries i switched to an ubuntu session so here is the output: http://paste.ubuntu.com/8531836/
[09:31] <Riddell> soee: what's the craic?
[09:31] <soee> Riddell: craic ?
[09:32] <apachelogger> huh
[09:32] <apachelogger> gandalf: apt policy plasma-workspace
[09:32] <apachelogger> eh
[09:32] <apachelogger> apt-cache policy plasma-workspace
[09:32] <Riddell> soee: que pasa?
[09:32] <Riddell> soee: did sddm work?
[09:33] <soee> i did not test, i used lightdm because if it sais that sddm service does nto exist
[09:33] <gandalf> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8531859/
[09:33] <soee> so it probably fail but let my try
[09:35]  * kfunk cries
[09:35] <kfunk> Riddell: that's the root cause: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdebase/+bug/13965
[09:35]  * apachelogger cries too
[09:35] <kfunk> good old bug from 2005
[09:36] <apachelogger> gandalf: sudo apt update && sudo apt install -o 'Debug::pkgProblemResolver=true' plasma-widget-milou-kf5 plasma-workspace milou plasma-desktop kubuntu-plasma5-desktop
[09:37] <Riddell> kfunk: wow, old school bug
[09:37] <kfunk> the script has been copied over from kdm
[09:38] <kfunk> and with it the bug wrt ZSH integration
[09:38] <Riddell> fun
[09:38] <valorie> http://cvsweb.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/src/usr.bin/head/head.c
[09:38] <apachelogger> if there's one thing I wouldn't copy anyting from it's kdm :P
[09:38] <gandalf> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8531882/
[09:39] <soee> Riddell: if i switch to sddm, system stops when booting with this 3 lines: * starting automatic crash report generation: apport | * starting DirMngr dirmngr | * Restoring resolver state ...
[09:39] <Riddell> valorie: :)
[09:39] <Riddell> soee: ug :(
[09:39] <valorie> we don't have the oldest bugs in town....
[09:39] <Riddell> kubotu: newpackage baloo-kcmadv
[09:39] <kubotu> incorrect usage, ask for help using 'kubotu: help newpackage'
[09:40] <soee> dont be sad :) it never worked for me, not a single time so i predicted it wont now :D
[09:40] <apachelogger> :O
[09:41] <apachelogger> Breaks: plasma-widget-milou-kf5
[09:41] <apachelogger> Replaces: plasma-widget-milou-kf5
[09:41] <apachelogger> Provides: plasma-widget-milou-kf5
[09:41] <Riddell> kubotu: newpackage baloo-kcmadv 1.00.00-1
[09:41] <kubotu> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1379719
[09:41]  * apachelogger wonders why that isn't versioned
[09:41] <apachelogger> :/
[09:42] <apachelogger> gandalf: apt-cache show milou
[09:42] <gandalf> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8531897/
[09:43] <Riddell> ScottK: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1379719
[09:43] <kfunk> Riddell: https://github.com/sddm/sddm/pull/276 -- updated
[09:43] <kfunk> feel free to merge
[09:44] <apachelogger> gandalf: seems unrelated to the krunner problem
[09:44] <kfunk> err, "use the patch in Kubuntu"
[09:44] <gandalf> hmm ok
[09:44] <gandalf> maybe i'll give the beta2 a try instead
[09:44] <gandalf> that should be more stable right?
[09:45] <apachelogger> yeah
[09:45] <apachelogger> well
[09:45] <Riddell> kfunk: maybe my github foo isn't good enough but I actually don't know where your branch is to be merged
[09:45] <gandalf> ;-) i'll try ..
[09:45] <kfunk> Riddell: hm?
[09:46] <kfunk> Riddell: you don't know how to extract the patch or what's the issue?
[09:47] <Riddell> kfunk: on https://github.com/sddm/sddm/pull/276 I don't see any mention of your fix for zsh
[09:47] <Riddell> kfunk: and I don't see any git repository or branch that can be merged
[09:47] <kfunk> Riddell: fix for ZSH: https://github.com/sddm/sddm/pull/287
[09:48] <kfunk> Riddell: branches are here: https://github.com/krf/sddm
[09:55] <Riddell> kfunk: lovely, uploaded thanks
[09:55] <tsdgeos> Riddell: ignore the .1
[09:56] <Riddell> we shall
[10:12]  * Riddell adds the gdb workaround patch to plasma-workspace
[10:30] <kubotu> feed branches had 8 updates, showing the latest 6
[10:32] <Riddell> apachelogger: what do you think of apol's request to have muon in kubuntu-ci ?
[10:33] <apachelogger> I think I dunno how
[10:33] <apachelogger> should possibly be DCI
[10:33] <Riddell> really? what's different to any other part of plasma
[10:33] <Riddell> DCI?
[10:33] <apachelogger> also the tests in their current form possibly won't run at build time at all
[10:33] <apachelogger> they require polkit auth which requires dbus which we don't have not running
[10:33] <apachelogger> so, this is slightly non-trivial
[10:33] <apachelogger> Riddell: debianci
[10:35] <Riddell> apachelogger: can you reply to him? you are the ci god after all
[10:35] <apachelogger> need shadeslayer to come into work first
[10:38] <Riddell> he seems to be dealing with spanish beurocracy this morning
[10:42] <Riddell> hmm, oxygen from kf5 can be compiled for kde4
[10:42] <Riddell> but meh, I can't see a need for that at this stage
[10:42] <Riddell> gandalf: any luck?
[10:43] <apachelogger> Riddell: jens was saying that there were visual changes to oxygen (not sure they are going to stay) but as far as theme convergence is concerned it wouldthus  be handy to have kde4 use the same oxygen
[10:44] <gandalf> I now tried the beta2 from a usb key. Boots fine to the menu where you can select try or install, but clicking install gives you a black screen with error message "[drm:intel_dp_start_link_train] *ERROR* too many full retries, give up". After that I am back to the try or install menu
[10:45] <Riddell> gandalf: yes sorry known problem
[10:45] <apachelogger> :O
[10:45] <apachelogger> that's still not fixed?
[10:45] <Riddell> gandalf: click try and then install
[10:45] <Riddell> apachelogger: I killed ubiquity-dm from current images as I couldn't even get any debugging to work out what was going wrong
[10:46] <Riddell> but that was after beta 2
[10:46] <apachelogger> ok
[10:46] <apachelogger> then at least CI iso shouldn't be blocked ^^
[10:46] <gandalf> installing won't eat my data in /home I hope?
[10:46] <apachelogger> or so one should hope
[10:46] <apachelogger> gandalf: as long as it is on a separate partition
[10:46] <Riddell> gandalf: depends if you format the partition with /home or not
[10:47] <gandalf> "resize and used freed space" should install alongside my existing installation, right?
[10:48] <gandalf> currently i only have one partition and swap
[10:48] <Riddell> gandalf: if you want to dual boot yes
[10:48] <gandalf> ok that might be safest for now
[10:48] <Riddell> you can also install over an existing install without formatting, in which case it'll detete /usr et al but not /home
[11:09] <gandalf> ok, installation is complete. first impression is much better than the one from the next ppa: i have a working desktop and krunner does not freeze the system :-)
[11:10] <Riddell> awooga
[11:10] <Riddell> of course you'll get next ppa contents when you do an upgrade
[11:10] <Riddell> and testing of that would be appreciated
[11:10] <gandalf> i'll poke around a bit and let you know
[11:17] <soee> Riddell: this is from sddm log last entries http://paste.ubuntu.com/8532274/
[11:18] <BluesKaj> Hey folks
[11:18] <sgclark> hiiyas
[11:19] <soee> hi
[11:22] <gandalf> hmm no sleep option in the logout menu?
[11:24] <gandalf> thats still beta2. now ill try the upgrade
[11:25] <gandalf> didnt find any other problems so far
[11:29] <gandalf> do i need to install extra packages for sleep/hibernate?
[11:29] <BluesKaj> gandalf, pm-suspend works in the meantime
[11:30] <kubotu> feed branches had 25 updates, showing the latest 6
[11:31] <gandalf> ah thanks, that works
[11:34] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: aloha1
[11:34] <shadeslayer> !
[11:35] <shadeslayer> who's gandalf
[11:36] <soee> the wizard
[11:39] <ScottK> Riddell: baloo-kcmadv done.
[11:41] <gandalf> got an error while upgrading: http://paste.ubuntu.com/8532385/
[11:48] <gandalf> sudo apt-get -f install fixed that, though. now upgraded and things work fine so far
[11:50] <gandalf> generally speaking, I dont see underlined letters in button texts to indicate ctrl shortcuts, that is a bit unexpected
[11:51] <kfunk> Riddell: the SDDM patch got merged already (the first one)
[11:51] <kfunk> (or did you subscribe to the pull-request notifications?)
[11:52] <gandalf> wanted to change the date/time settings and received an error - "authentification not possible, the backend does not specify how to authorize"
[11:53] <apachelogger> ah yes
[11:53]  * apachelogger thought he fixed that
[11:54] <gandalf> changing the color scheme seems not to work?
[11:55] <gandalf> ah, some color schemes work, but breeze dark doesnt
[11:55] <apachelogger> ohmnom
[11:56] <apachelogger> gandalf: you did do a full-upgrade, right?
[11:56] <gandalf> yes i did
[11:56] <apachelogger> no clue why time auth wouldn't work then
[11:57] <gandalf> regarding the color schemes: there was a breeze.colors file in my home folder after installing
[11:59] <gandalf> but generally speaking, all looks pretty neat
[12:04] <gandalf> changing some desktop effects brings kwin_x11 to 100% cpu and freezes
[12:05] <apachelogger> bugs.kde.org
[12:06] <gandalf> ok
[12:30] <kubotu> feed branches had 21 updates, showing the latest 6
[12:31] <soee> ok so any idea how to solve the problem with sdd.service does not exist ?
[12:31] <soee> *sddm.service
[12:32] <shadeslayer> how is that possible ? :S
[12:32] <sgclark> I got the same error, not rebooting heh
[12:32] <shadeslayer> reinstall the sddm package?
[12:33] <soee> sgclark: with sddm ?
[12:33] <sgclark> yup
[12:33] <soee> hmm
[12:34] <soee> sgclark: you can reboot but you probably end up with this 3 lines on black screen
[12:35] <soee> though you can reconfigure it from cli than
[12:36] <soee> hmm i did apt-get install --reinstall sddm
[12:36] <soee> but the same: WARNING: /lib/systemd/system/sddm.service is the selected default display manager but does not exist
[12:36] <Riddell> kfunk: oh cool
[12:37] <soee> and if i try to purge it it wants to remove also: kde-config-sddm* kubuntu-plasma5-desktop* sddm*
[12:37] <sgclark> Yup, even after update:
[12:37] <sgclark> Setting up sddm (0.9.0-0ubuntu1~ubuntu14.10~ppa11) ...
[12:37] <soee> so kubuntu-plasma5-desktop depend son it right ?
[12:37] <sgclark> WARNING: /lib/systemd/system/sddm.service is the selected default display manager but does not exist
[12:38]  * sgclark still refuses to reboot
[12:38] <soee> :D
[12:38] <soee> sgclark: did you used it before and it worked ?
[12:38] <sgclark> well. this is the computer with the nvidia probelm, wonder if it is related
[12:39] <soee> hmm, does  sddm have anything to do with nvidia ?
[12:40] <sgclark> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-prime/+bug/1377321
[12:40] <sgclark> sddm is not an option for a login manager with nvidia drivers, so yes there is a problem
[12:40] <soee> :/
[12:41] <soee> im also on a laptop with optimus technology
[12:41] <sgclark> that is why we have to have lightdm installed
[12:41] <soee> atm using nvidia-prime with nvidia-340
[12:41] <sgclark> hmm, there is a 340?
[12:42]  * sgclark wonders if that works
[12:42] <soee> sgclark: from edgers ppa
[12:42]  * sgclark also wonders why driver-manager oes not offer it..
[12:42] <soee> there is even 343
[12:42] <sgclark> oh
[12:42] <sgclark> ok
[12:42] <soee> but its short time release
[12:42] <soee> so after edgers ppa is added driver manage suggests 340
[12:43] <sgclark> you still have to have lightdm installed correct?
[12:43] <soee> sgclark: yes
[12:43] <sgclark> ok
[12:43] <sgclark> can you click your affected by that bug so perhaps someone will even look at it
[12:43] <sgclark> seems big to me but it is being ignored
[12:44] <soee> one moment, @the drivers:
[12:46] <Riddell> apachelogger: how do I use this new/old releaseme feature for conditional ki18n_install?
[12:47] <soee> the 340 are installed and selected, the drivers managers shows novau: http://wstaw.org/m/2014/10/10/drivers1.png
[12:47] <apachelogger> Riddell: just put if (kf5) find_package(ki18n) etc etc etc ki18n_install(po) endif()
[12:47] <apachelogger> Riddell: i.e. what releaseme put there in the tar, just copy that into git and wrap it in an if(kf5)
[12:47] <apachelogger> or well, whatever check seems most appropriate
[12:48] <apachelogger> actually if(kf5 && dir_exists(po))
[12:48] <soee> sgclark: where do i have to click or shall i comment ?>
[12:48] <sgclark> should be at the top , you need to be logged in I think
[12:48] <apachelogger> if I made no mistakes releaseme will detect that you ki18n_install(po) already and not add another instruction for that
[12:49] <soee> sgclark: done
[12:49] <sgclark> thanks!
[12:50] <Riddell> apachelogger: oh so releaeme doesn't add ki18n_install if it is already there?
[12:56] <soee> kompare is the best app to comare file diffs ?
[12:57] <soee> oh and ill test how now connecting TV through hdmi works and if works
[12:58] <soee> woho :)
[12:58] <soee> it messed a bit my screen posisin on a laptop but it works
[13:01] <soee> ok after "unify output" has been clicked, screen size is fine, thout it changed my wallpaper to default :)
[13:02] <soee> and in system settings the area wher i should drag screens is black
[13:03] <soee> and if we ubplug cable plasmahell crasshes :D
[13:04] <apachelogger> Riddell: *nod*
[13:11] <ejat> anyone can help me with this http://paste.ubuntu.com/8532798/
[13:15] <Riddell> ejat: you need to paste also what command you were running
[13:15] <ejat> im doing a dist-upgrade
[13:16] <ejat> from trusty to utopic
[13:17] <Riddell> any reason why? that's unsupported
[13:18] <ejat> cant understand y its unsupported ..
[13:18] <Riddell> it has no policy, the meta package might get removed an anarchy would break lose
[13:19] <Riddell> kubuntu-devel-release-upgrade  is the way to go
[13:25] <Riddell> "The problems encountered during beta have been resolved " optimistic there sgclark :)
[13:25] <sgclark> ikr
[13:25] <sgclark> I was dreaming :(
[13:27] <Riddell> it's good to dream :)
[13:28] <sgclark> just curious, anyone looking inot the sddm issue? I have someone asking on my blog
[13:28] <sgclark> s/inot/into/
[13:28] <kubotu> sgclark meant: "just curious, anyone looking into the sddm issue? I have someone asking on my blog"
[13:28]  * sgclark is not used to activity on her blog
[13:29] <Riddell> I'm going to try the kubuntu normal iso shortly and install plasma5 on it to see how that goes
[13:29] <Riddell> sgclark: its what happens when you're a rockstar :)
[13:29] <sgclark> lol
[13:29] <Riddell> and have a decent blogging site, unlike me
[13:29] <sgclark> I have to maintain my whole server, it is a rather large pain
[13:30] <Riddell> well yes, my wordpress install on jriddell.org is about a decade old
[13:30] <sgclark> ouch
[13:30] <Riddell> when I looked at upgrading it recently I gave up when I saw an upgrade would need php5 which that server doesn't have
[13:30] <kubotu> feed branches had 25 updates, showing the latest 6
[13:31] <sgclark> double ouch
[13:31] <sgclark> the web part is not so bad maintianing, mail on the other hand...
[13:38] <ejat> Riddell: kubuntu-devel-release-upgrade
[13:38] <ejat> Checking for a new Ubuntu release
[13:38] <ejat> No new release found
[13:39] <Riddell> ah it thinks you're already on utopic
[13:39] <Riddell> then yeah, faff around with dist-upgrade
[13:40] <ejat> faff ?
[13:41] <Riddell> play around until something works
[13:41] <ejat> ouch ...
[13:41] <ejat> tried to force one by one
[13:41] <soee> *one year later ... ejat still faffs around :D
[13:41] <ejat> soee: i think so ... :(
[13:42] <soee> nah, have a faith
[13:42] <soee> Kubntu is the best distro you can use :)
[13:42] <ejat> i hv multi DE
[13:42] <ejat> btw ..
[13:42] <ejat> KDE 5 default in utopic?
[13:43] <ejat> right?
[13:43] <BluesKaj> nope
[13:43] <ejat> hmm ...
[13:43] <ejat> ive tried -f install
[13:44] <BluesKaj> hmm, all you want, it's not default and probly won't be, ejat
[13:44] <ejat> its moving now ..
[13:44] <ejat> BluesKaj: okie noted
[13:45] <soee_> wrr connection problem
[13:45] <BluesKaj> we're better off without it atm
[13:46] <sgclark> yeah I love plasma 5 , but it definately still needs work
[13:48] <soee_> sgclark: but look how it was 3-4 months ago and what we have now
[13:48] <soee_> the proggress is visible
[13:48] <sgclark> yes huge leaps of progress
[13:52] <sgclark> ack we already put in next ppa with broken sddm??
[13:52] <Riddell> shadeslayer: http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/KDE/plasma-workspace-wallpapers/
[13:58] <sgclark> soee_: you said you fixed the sddm thing after rebooting in cli? can you paste the fix so that I can blog it for those that might upgrade and reboot?
[13:58] <soee_> sgclark: fix ? no
[13:58] <Riddell> apachelogger: I thought you said this kvm thing was reliable? http://people.ubuntu.com/~jr/tmp/kvm.png
[13:59] <soee_> i just switched to lightdm back from cli
[13:59] <sgclark> ahh so if they don't have lighdm, that can be bad
[13:59] <soee_> they can install it from cli if they are connected to network
[14:01] <BluesKaj> my experience with plasma 5 and KF5 were obviously very different, totally unstable and wasn't able to file any bugs due to the constant crashing and freezing so I reverted
[14:01] <soee_> :O
[14:02] <apachelogger> Riddell: I said it's less shit than vbox
[14:02] <soee_> BluesKaj: after installation (also /home) ?
[14:02] <soee_> *fresh
[14:02] <apachelogger> virtualization is always unreliable with opengl in the picture :P
[14:02] <apachelogger> well, maybe except for vmware, people keep telling me everything's roses there
[14:03] <BluesKaj> no soee_ I upgraded from the "next" ppa
[14:04] <soee_> BluesKaj: i had a huge problems when i did upgrade from 14.04 etc. the big part of problems were in my old configurations etc
[14:04] <BluesKaj> already runnuing 14.10 when I installed plasma 5 soee_
[14:04] <soee_> after i did fresh install almost all worked, that i brink some configs for apps from old backup
[14:05] <apachelogger> BluesKaj: you also didn't want to file bug reports, so stop whining
[14:05] <soee_> BluesKaj: did you tried with new user ?
[14:05] <soee_> login on a new user account
[14:05] <BluesKaj> apachelogger, not whining, just stating facts
[14:07] <BluesKaj> no need to insult because a desktop not ready for normal usage doesn't work for everyone
[14:08] <soee_> here i can agree
[14:08] <soee_> its not ready for standard users
[14:08] <soee_> but a user that knows a bit how to solve simple problems can use it for sure
[14:10] <BluesKaj> anyway I won't mention it again
[14:11] <soee_> cs:go with 340 drivers works a bit smoother
[14:18] <apachelogger> BluesKaj: you shitting all over our work with no intentions of helping is not acceptable
[14:19] <sgclark> ok, so something is messed up on my system, I switched to lightdm and ended up with a unity login and it could not start session. but I was able to start sddm and got a login whew
[14:21] <BluesKaj> apachelogger, I tried to help, but couldn't even the bug report option would crash ...whatr was I supposed to do?
[14:21] <apachelogger> sgclark: huh?
[14:22] <apachelogger> sgclark: plasma-desktop is installed?
[14:22] <apachelogger> BluesKaj: bugs.kde.org
[14:22] <sgclark> yes kde is fine, it is sddm/lighdm/nvidia issues
[14:22] <apachelogger> oh great, now I am scared of logout :P
[14:22] <sgclark> yeah I don't advise it
[14:23] <BluesKaj> well ok, I'll know better next time , but I'm still going to wait for a while
[14:23] <apachelogger> until then I'll thank you not to bring down everyone in the dev channel
[14:24] <apachelogger> sgclark: what's a unity login though
[14:24] <BluesKaj> everyone ? ...do you speak for everyone else, apachelogger ?
[14:25] <sgclark> like ubuntu login apacheloggger
[14:25] <sgclark> s/apacheloggger/apachelogger/
[14:25] <kubotu> sgclark meant: "like ubuntu login apachelogger"
[14:27] <sgclark> I think I might have messed stuff up though when I was fighting with my nvidia issue here: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1377321
[14:27] <sgclark> wth
[14:27] <sgclark> oh
[14:27] <sgclark> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-prime/+bug/1377321
[14:28] <sgclark> anyway, not rebooting again till fixed!
[14:30] <Riddell> so there's a specific problem with sddm and nvidia?
[14:31] <kubotu> feed branches had 23 updates, showing the latest 6
[14:32] <apachelogger> eh wah eww
[14:33] <apachelogger> Riddell: Depends: lightdm (>= 1.9.1) | gdm | kdm, upstart, bbswitch-dkms, pciutils, lsb-release, lsb-base (>= 4.1+Debian11ubuntu7)
[14:33] <apachelogger> Maintainer: Alberto Milone<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[14:33] <apachelogger> Riddell: please poke with that bug, the alternatives in the deps need sddm added
[14:33] <Riddell> apachelogger: this is nvidia?
[14:33] <apachelogger> nvidia-prime
[14:34] <soee_> i wouldnt say its nvidia
[14:35] <soee_> even if nvidia-prime depends of lightdm shoudl be be able to have it install and use sddm ?
[14:35] <apachelogger> yes
[14:36] <apachelogger> which is what you did
[14:36] <sgclark> yes, but when I installed lightdm it pulled in a ton of unity/gnome and lightdm will not launch plasma 5
[14:36] <apachelogger> except at install you get asked which dm to use which is bollocks and terrible and blargh
[14:36] <sgclark> so lightdm also needs an option for plasma 5
[14:36] <apachelogger> sgclark: because lightdm in turn will want a theme and since we provide none it picked the default which is the unity theme
[14:36] <sgclark> but would rather use sddm
[14:36] <apachelogger> we do not support lightdm
[14:36] <apachelogger> lightdm should not be installed
[14:36] <apachelogger> that's all that went wrong here
[14:36] <Riddell> we should do
[14:37] <sgclark> I don't wnt to use lightdm lol
[14:37] <Riddell> there's no reason why installing lightdm should break things
[14:37] <apachelogger> it doesn't
[14:37] <sgclark> it did
[14:37] <apachelogger> what did it break?
[14:37] <sgclark> rebooting is a nightmare for me, everytime
[14:37] <sgclark> session would not start
[14:38] <apachelogger> what was the error?
[14:38] <apachelogger> that's most likley not lightdm's fault though
[14:38] <apachelogger> I am using lightdm and have been since forever
[14:38] <apachelogger> works just fine
[14:40] <sgclark> hmm
[14:40] <sgclark> well
[14:40] <sgclark> not for me :(
[14:40] <sgclark> is there a log I can look at?
[14:41] <apachelogger> /var/log/lightdm.log I guess
[14:41] <apachelogger> or maybe .xsession-errors
[14:41] <apachelogger> it really depends on how exactly the session start fails
[14:42] <apachelogger> if it is on the lightdm side the logs would probably be in /var/log
[14:42] <Riddell> waa, new amd64 plasma5 image is lovely, i386 is all broken
[14:42] <apachelogger> I mean, there's 3 million ways a session start can fail
[14:42] <apachelogger> like X crashing, that'd be in the xorg log
[14:42] <apachelogger> Riddell: what's the i386 problem?
[14:43] <Riddell> no idea, everything crashes on login
[14:43] <sgclark> Seat seat0: Can't find session 'kde-plasma-kf5'
[14:43] <sgclark> seems the likely fail point
[14:44] <apachelogger> sgclark: sounds to me like the session you tried to start (that lightdm had probably preselected) is super old
[14:44] <Riddell> "*** stack smashing detected ***"
[14:44] <Riddell> well that's not good
[14:44] <apachelogger> Riddell: fix in pipeline
[14:45] <apachelogger> https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=339771
[14:45] <Riddell> apachelogger: oh? what's that all about?
[14:45] <apachelogger> Riddell: also, read the mails I cc you on
[14:45] <apachelogger> it's very rude not to -.-
[14:46] <apachelogger> sgclark: i.e. that session isn't called that anymore and the session name is probably from way back in beta when we had our own session file
[14:46] <apachelogger> so that's probably why session start didn't work, the session you tried to start simply didn't exist anymore ;)
[14:47] <sgclark> ahh that makes sense. ok, I know where to start, thanks
[14:48] <Riddell> apachelogger: you're a genius
[14:49] <Riddell> apachelogger: I should probably add that patch to our packages
[14:51] <apachelogger> Riddell: I'd wait for martin to push it tbh
[14:51] <Riddell> but but I want the fix now!
[14:52] <apachelogger> Riddell: computer says no
[14:52] <apachelogger> who uses i386 anyway :P
[14:52] <apachelogger> plus no relaese over weekends, so who cares
[14:58] <Riddell> apachelogger, sgclark: tseliot here knows about nvidia-prime driver
[14:58] <Riddell> but says sddm needs to run a script on startup
[14:58] <Riddell> d_ed: do you know if that's possible? ↑
[15:00] <tseliot> this is the config file for lightdm that we use: http://paste.ubuntu.com/8533397/
[15:00] <Riddell> sorry tseliot guess d_ed isn't around at the moment
[15:01] <Riddell> guess he's at home celebrating his new ukip overlords
[15:02] <tseliot> Riddell: ok, no problem. This is a bug report that was filed against gdm to support the same features: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1262068
[15:05] <Riddell> jussi: that explains why you had trouble on i386, https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=339771
[15:05] <kslash> Hello
[15:05] <Riddell> hi kslash
[15:05] <Riddell> kslash: are you Simone?
[15:05] <kslash> Riddell, yes :)
[15:05] <Riddell> welcome to Kubuntu!
[15:06] <kslash> Riddell, thank you!
[15:06] <Riddell> kslash: we do lots of interesting things here
[15:07] <Riddell> much of it taking KDE software and making sure it runs sensibly then putting it all together
[15:07] <Riddell> kslash: you're doing computing at university?
[15:07] <apachelogger> tseliot: interesting
[15:08] <apachelogger> Riddell: I fear making nvidia-prime work needs upstream code first
[15:08] <Riddell> tseliot: so when nvidia-prime says "Depends: lightdm (>= 1.9.1) | gdm" it's actually a lie?
[15:08] <kslash> Riddell, yes, i've done computing even at high school.. i know some program languages, now im studying at university
[15:08] <tseliot> Riddell: both gdm and lightdm support it now
[15:09] <apachelogger> Riddell: there is no seat setup configuration capability at all, and even if there was we'd still lack a conf.d (for which I think shadeslayer filed a wish at some point)
[15:09] <Riddell> kslash: as I always say, learning at university is great but the only way to take that knowledge and work out how programmes really work it through looking and understanding real programmes, and that's where free software is needed
[15:09] <Riddell> apachelogger: what do you mean "seat setup configuration"?
[15:10] <Riddell> kslash: ever compiled a kde program?
[15:11] <kslash> Riddell, I know, so im just trying to do my best, and i'd love to be part of this team, to improve myself, and help as possible as i can, because i love kubuntu and all about it (philosophy too)
[15:11] <Riddell> kslash: just what we want to hear :)
[15:11] <apachelogger> Riddell: seat ~= session, what we need is a way to configure scripts that run on setup and teardown of a seat
[15:11] <apachelogger> which AFAIK is not possible right now at all
[15:12] <Riddell> tseliot: someone seems to have accepted by nvidia-prime upload already, should I upload a revert?
[15:12] <apachelogger> and then in addition to that we need a way to drop a config into a dir and have that picked up (conf.d) such that we don't have maintscripts fiddle with /etc/sddm.conf
[15:12] <apachelogger> Riddell: sddm is not in the archive, on what basis would you justify the revert? :P
[15:13] <Riddell> apachelogger: on the basis that it's not in the archive?
[15:13] <apachelogger> pft
[15:13] <apachelogger> Riddell: martin pushed fix
[15:13] <kslash> Riddel, it would be an honor for me:)
[15:13] <apachelogger> and somehow ci did trigger
[15:13] <apachelogger> oh god no
[15:13] <apachelogger> now ci will fail because of the patch import
[15:13]  * apachelogger rolls eyes
[15:14] <tseliot> Riddell: that will at least allow nvidia users to use the nvidia driver on single card systems (as nvidia depends on nvidia-prime). So I'd say we can leave the change in place for now
[15:14] <Riddell> apachelogger: why does that cause it to fail?
[15:14] <apachelogger> because it is in git and in the packaging now
[15:15] <Riddell> oh so it needs to be removed from unstable branch
[15:15] <apachelogger> I have a feeling CI should automatically remove debian/patches/upstream_*
[15:16] <Riddell> depends on the definition of upstream
[15:16] <Riddell> like I think of the two patches I added to sddm only 1 is in upstream git, the other is still waiting
[15:16] <tseliot> Riddell, apachelogger: you might want to file a bug report against nvidia-prime, ubuntu-drivers-common and ssdm though, so as to track the feature/problem
[15:17] <apachelogger> tseliot, Riddell: FWIW, I think it would be worthwhile to add sddm in the depends alternatives all the same, otherwise people that test plasma5 and install the blob drivers will get a) a weird query for what dm they want to use and b) potentially have their dm switched out for lightdm with unity theming xD
[15:18] <sgclark> which is what happened to me
[15:18] <Riddell> kslash: I recommend you start by working out how to compile a simple kde program
[15:18] <Riddell> kslash: just to get used to the tools and whatnot
[15:19] <sgclark> and now I have a ton of unity/gnome installed that I don't want.
[15:19] <Riddell> kslash: are you good on bash command line?
[15:19] <Riddell> kslash: do you know a good command line text editor?
[15:21] <kslash> Riddel, i read some official guide, i tried to compile hello world in kde, it was already made in the site, but it gave me an error on the library KDE application if im not wrong
[15:21] <apachelogger> (there is only one)
[15:21] <apachelogger> (well, two)
[15:21] <kslash> Riddel, i used Qt Creator
[15:21] <Riddell> apachelogger: yes yes but for some reason emacs isn't installed by default so worth knowing nano too
[15:22] <sgclark> vi!
[15:23] <soee> Riddell: the wndow decoration Breeze is teh new one that mgrasslin wors/worked on ?
[15:23] <soee> old the old one , the new one should be written in c++ right ?
[15:23] <Riddell> soee: no the one in 5.1 is the one mgaesslin complains about lots
[15:23] <soee> ok
[15:25] <Riddell> kslash: ever tried compiling a .deb package?
[15:25] <Riddell> kslash: or if you can get that error again you can ask for help to work out what needs installed to fix it
[15:27] <kslash> Riddel: no i never tried compiling a deb package, just tried to do a little kde program
[15:28] <Riddell> kslash: probably worth you contiuing to get hello world compiled
[15:28] <Riddell> kslash: oh and using tab completion in irc on names :)
[15:28] <kslash> Riddel, include <KApplication> No such file or directory.. it's like i should donwload that library somewhere?
[15:28] <Riddell> kslash: is this qt4 or qt5?
[15:31] <kslash> Riddel: Qt creator 3.0.1 based on qt 5.2.1 (GCC 4.8.2)
[15:31] <Riddell> kslash: that doesn't necessarily mean you the program you're making is with qt 5
[15:31] <Riddell> kslash: do you know what build system you're using? cmake or qmake?
[15:33] <apachelogger> Riddell: ci actually integrated windowsystem :O
[15:35] <kslash> Riddel: i saw i was wrong i choose new cpp project instead of new qt project, i build the pre-made IDE example and it worked ( a void wndow) but the example from the site has the same problem about the library
[15:36] <apachelogger> aha
[15:36] <apachelogger> Riddell: you uploaded before martin pushed
[15:36] <apachelogger> sneaky
[15:37]  * Riddell sneaks
[15:38] <Riddell> kslash: right so the build system has not been told to compile and link against the required kde library
[15:38] <Riddell> kslash: so you need to find out what that library is and how you add it to the build system
[15:38] <Riddell> kslash: so do you know if it's qmake or cmake?
[15:40] <kslash> Riddel, no i dont know :(  how i see if its qmake? the library i think its Kapplication
[15:41] <Riddell> kslash: is there a .pro file around? or a CMakeLists.txt file?
[15:41] <Riddell> build systems are something my univerity course missed out entirely
[15:41] <Riddell> as indeed was libraries and APIs
[15:41] <Riddell> good thing KDE existed :)
[15:42] <kslash> Riddel, i remember i used a CMakeLists.txt file some days ago, but i dont remember why.. i can open it
[15:45] <Riddell> kslash: pastebin it
[15:47] <kslash> RIddel, sorry im trying to found it XD
[15:47] <Riddell> kslash: tab completion is your friend on IRC, type "Ri<tab>"
[15:48] <kslash> Riddell: wow nice XD
[15:50] <Riddell> it's also your friend on a console command line
[15:51] <kslash> Riddell: i've just tried on the terminal, thank you! anyway sorry if im taking too much of your time, thank you very much
[15:52] <Riddell> kslash: I need to leave shortly, I think you should work out how to compile simple kde apps as a useful task
[15:52] <Riddell> kslash: you can ask on #kde-devel for help as that's proably more on topic than here
[15:53] <Riddell> kslash: then you can take over maintainership of kapptemplate :)
[15:53] <Riddell> that thing is crufty and needs all the old templates removed or updated
[15:54] <Riddell> kslash: learning to build .deb packages would be the next step
[15:54] <Riddell> then you're all ready to become an elite kubuntu ninja
[15:54] <Riddell> kslash: oh but it's RC week next week then final release the week after, lots of testing help needed
[15:54] <Riddell> kslash: so do stay around on this IRC channel to help out
[15:55] <Riddell> still looking for someone to make that release banner too if you know your artwork
[15:56] <kslash> Riddell:  okok, il work hard and try to found some solution, then for now i work on kde apps... tomorrow ill be back here :) thank u very much
[15:57] <kslash> Riddell: try to find* sry XD
[15:57] <Riddell> kslash: oh it's probably quieter here at the weekends but do hang around
[15:59]  * Riddell away
[16:01] <kslash> Riddel: so i should enter here, only when i have to ask something... can not stay here all the time? even if i dont write anything?
[16:01] <sgclark> most of us live here all the time :)
[16:02] <soee> ha you want a lot of error notifications ? try to change caontact list name in kde telepathy :)
[16:02] <BluesKaj> soee, so you say I can't save my /home data to make the plasma 5 beta iso install run properly in / ?
[16:03] <BluesKaj> due to incorrect conf files etc
[16:03] <kslash> sgclark:  then i will live here too XD
[16:03] <sgclark> :)
[16:03] <soee> BluesKaj:  im not saying you cant, what i did was a backup of my /home (what i needed) than i did fresh install with /home dir also on separate partition and all worked, than i moved some settings fom /home backup to current /home
[16:03] <kslash> soee: kde telepathy ahahah :)
[16:05] <soee> also you know hen whole plasma6 looks better ? ... clear the dust from  the screen :D
[16:05] <soee> *plasma5
[16:05] <BluesKaj> soee, ok, got it
[16:06] <sgclark> hmm, I don't know that I see a big difference with breeze-dark icons
[16:06] <soee> yup some changes and looks better
[16:07] <soee> *changed
[16:07] <soee> *look
[16:07]  * sgclark probably because you not using breeze dark *smacks head*
[16:07] <soee> ;)
[16:07] <sgclark> changed and it looks good :)
[16:08] <sgclark> err my kicker is light and I can't see the white text!
[16:08] <soee> the systray section looks nice now
[16:08] <sgclark> yeah
[16:09] <sgclark> this kicker will not do though, is yours like that soee?
[16:09] <soee> what is kicker the menu >
[16:09] <soee> ?
[16:09] <sgclark> yeah
[16:09] <soee> hmm im using the homerun kicker
[16:09] <soee> lokks/works fine
[16:10]  * sgclark switches
[16:10] <soee> also the default one
[16:10] <soee> tested if liek 1 hour ago
[16:10] <soee> now you can switch easily using alternatives !
[16:11] <BluesKaj> is the plasma 5 beta iso the latest?
[16:11] <BluesKaj> soee, ^
[16:11] <soee> BluesKaj: no idea, Riddell ^
[16:14] <BluesKaj> it's dated aug 28th, but I imagine upgrades will bring it up to date
[16:19] <soee> BluesKaj: the and64 iso right ?
[16:20] <soee> i386 does not work i think
[16:21] <sgclark> ah ha, I fixed my kickoff issue by enabling blur
[16:21] <soee> :)
[16:23] <BluesKaj> soee, yes the amd 64 iso is correct
[16:25] <BluesKaj> going to try it on my laptop, it's relatively new so the install should go well
[16:26] <soee> hope soe :)
[16:27] <soee> the clipper has been ported to qml i think now it fits theme, lest wait for kmix integration
[16:27] <soee> and we will have all working nice
[16:27]  * soee missing activity switch shortcut :<
[16:28] <BluesKaj> soee, can you virtual desktops with different wallpapers ?
[16:28] <BluesKaj> run
[16:28] <soee> uh i dont know :) im not using them
[16:28] <soee> activity though, can have different
[16:28] <BluesKaj> ok
[16:28] <soee> *activities
[16:29] <BluesKaj> might use activities if the VD don't accept different wallpapers
[16:33] <soee> but atm switching activity needs a extra click, because we dont have a shortcut :<
[16:33] <soee> *an extra
[16:36] <soee> but from what i tested now we can add shortcut to switch VD
[16:36] <soee> and it works fine
[16:38] <BluesKaj> ok thanks soee, sounds good so far :)
[16:39] <soee> but i cant set different wallpaper or im doing somethng wrong
[16:39] <sgclark> I can in activities, but not desktops
[16:40] <BluesKaj> ok
[16:56] <sgclark> Riddell: 4.14.2 building away, I have to run some errands but will retur and fix whatever issues that come up.
[17:12] <allee> I'll try to pkg digikam 4.4
[17:20] <allee> mhmm, Is pkg repo for digikam/utopic still launchpad/bzr or   alioth/git ?  URL?
[17:21] <Riddell> sgclark: you rock
[17:23] <allee> Hi Riddell,  digikam 4 utopic.  Pkg repo still in LP or alioth?  URL?
[17:26] <Riddell> its not changed
[17:26] <Riddell> so lp if thsts what it was before
[17:27] <allee> Riddell: yes for digikam 4.2 we used bzr
[17:27] <allee> and lp
[17:32] <sgclark> why do we call it kde4libs and upstream calls it kdelibs, creates such a mess everytime
[17:34] <Riddell> cos it overlapped with kdelibs 3
[17:49] <sgclark> ok it might actuall y start building now, I need to fix that script at the barf points for kdelibs, but that is for another day.
[17:49] <sgclark> I am now leaving on those errands, bbl
[19:03] <soee> sgclark: ping
[19:44] <soee> so someone can explain me what is the issue/whers teh problem with sddm ?
[19:57] <sgclark> soee: pong
[19:59] <soee> sgclark: do you know where wxactly the problem with sddm is ?
[19:59] <soee> *exactyl
[20:00] <sgclark> what cause the warning? no :(
[20:00] <soee> well the missing sddm.service file obsiously
[20:00] <soee> but why it does not exists in system ?
[20:00] <sgclark> right, but if I do a sudo service sddm start in cli it starts right up
[20:01] <soee> why it does not start when booting ?
[20:02] <sgclark> that I do not know. I am still in the learning phase of bootup scripts and what not though
[20:03] <sgclark> shadeslayer/apachelogger/Riddell would be better ones to ask
[20:03] <soee> well im not familiar with it either, i did create such file sddm.service similiar to lightdm.service
[20:03] <soee> than the warning is gone but sddm does nto start anyway
[20:04] <BluesKaj> is sddn default on plasma 5 ?
[20:04] <BluesKaj> sddm
[20:04] <sgclark> yeah
[20:04] <soee> i also did a symlink: sudo ln -s /lib/systemd/system/lightdm.service /etc/systemd/system/display-manager.service
[20:04] <soee> doesnt help either
[20:04] <BluesKaj> ok, works fine here, but this a new clean install
[20:05] <soee> :D
[20:05] <soee> so you did as i said ?
[20:05] <soee> * it was: sudo ln -s /lib/systemd/system/sddm.service /etc/systemd/system/display-manager.service
[20:06] <BluesKaj> soee, yup..took a while it's done ... transferring some media files back from the desktop pc
[20:07] <soee> BluesKaj: but the problem was that the old configuration/settings messed up Plasma5 each time right ?
[20:08] <BluesKaj> soee, yes it certainly looks so
[20:08] <BluesKaj> haven't tried any wall [papers
[20:09] <soee> i remember i had whole week 3-4 months ago lost trying to make plasma5 work, and the total reset helped than
[20:09] <BluesKaj> yet since I use pics from my photos
[20:09] <soee> i assume other users might have the same problem when trygin to upgrade from 4
[20:11] <BluesKaj> looks that way alright soee, thanks for the tips btw
[20:11] <soee> BluesKaj: np, i hope you like Plasma5 now :D
[20:12] <BluesKaj> we'll see...certainly hope so
[20:27] <BluesKaj> well smb freezes on file transfers, but scp works ok sofar
[21:32] <kubotu> feed branches had 9 updates, showing the latest 6


[00:17] <damd> hi.
[00:17] <damd> i can't push because there is a lock caused by me C-c'ing out of an earlier push
[00:17] <damd> bzr break-lock does nothing
[00:17] <damd> any ideas?
[00:18] <mwhudson> damd: try bzr break-lock :push
[00:18] <spiv> mwhudson: beat me to it :)
[00:19] <damd> ah, thanks
[01:20] <inada-n> mathrick: bzr-git can use dulwich from plugins/git/_lib/dulwich
[01:34] <poolie> hi inada-n, spiv
[02:08] <mathrick> inada-n: ah, that's useful
[02:08] <mathrick> does it hold true for other plugins too?
[03:12] <spiv> Hmm, 'perf top' during a parallel selftest run claims ~10% of the time is spent during deque_ass_item.
[03:13] <spiv> Perhaps just a measurement artefact?
[03:16] <spiv> grep doesn't show any obvious places that do 'some_deque[foo] = ...'
[03:17] <mwhudson> could be in subunit?
[03:20] <spiv> mwhudson: I grepped, bzrlib, subunit and testtools
[03:21] <mwhudson> ah
[03:21] <spiv> I'm assuming that python only invokes the sq_ass_item slot in the obvious case of sq[item] = value
[03:22] <spiv> Anyway, it's probably nothing I can quickly improve while getting actual work done... :)
[04:19] <pbouf77> Trying to setup the bzr_access script. When I try to do a test bzr co bzr+ssh://bzr@server/trunk, it asks me for a password..
[04:33] <spiv> pbouf77: but you expected publickey auth?
[04:34] <spiv> pbouf77: I'd try 'ssh -v -l bzr server' to double-check how the SSH client is trying to auth (assuming you are using OpenSSH as the SSH client)
[04:35] <spiv> pbouf77: and also check that the permissions on ~/.ssh and its contents are sufficiently restricted, sshd will probably ignore them if not, although it will hopefully log about it somewhere if that's the case
[04:38] <pbouf77> spiv: yeah publickey. Ok I tried your command, I'm not sure how to interpret the output though
[04:38] <spiv> pbouf77: basically look for lines about 'publickey' or 'trying key ...' and see if what's it's doing (or not doing) matches what you expect
[04:39] <spiv> pbouf77: e.g. if the client is never trying any key, that's a clue :)
[04:39]  * spiv -> late lunch
[04:39] <pbouf77> the bzr user's .ssh dir has perms drwx------
[04:40] <pbouf77> It does seem to be trying keys, "Offering public key: ..." shows up a couple of times, then "Trying private key: ..." then it tries password
[04:41] <pbouf77> also the authorized_keys file has perms -rw-------
[04:45] <poolie> pbouf77, have a look in auth.log
[04:48] <pbouf77> nothing gets added to that log when I try the ssh -v -l bzr server command..
[04:52] <poolie> that's /var/log/auth.log
[04:52] <poolie> really?
[04:53] <poolie> that'd be on the server, not on the client
[04:54] <pbouf77> yep
[04:54] <pbouf77> checked client too for good measure though ;)
[05:14] <pbouf77> arrgh. Ok, I think I see what happened. Serves me right for using pico instead of vim.
[05:14] <pbouf77> somehow my publickey got linebreaks added when I pasted it in
[05:15] <pbouf77> so now I can get as far as "bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: ...". I'm just happy to see a different error message though. :)
[05:17] <pbouf77> ... and that one was much easier to overcome. Looks like I'm on my way.
[05:17] <pbouf77> Thx all for the help.
[07:23] <vila> hi all !
[07:24] <poolie> hi vila, how are you
[07:24] <vila> fine ! the package importer had some troubles this night ?
[07:30] <poolie> over the weekend
[07:30] <poolie> james shut it down; i sent a mail
[07:31] <poolie> we should get it up again
[07:32] <vila> "we" == losas, is "when" known ?
[07:39]  * fullermd waves at vila.
[07:45] <poolie> spiv, i just noticed https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/401646 which seems a lot like the other things you did
[07:50] <vila> fullermd: so, did you test bookmarks with 2.3 ?
[07:50] <fullermd> Insofar as "it doesn't crash anymore, and one of 'em seemed to resolve correctly.
[07:51] <vila> k
[08:00] <fullermd> So, is 2.3 expected to be all peachy with py2.7?
[08:04] <vila> peachy ?
[08:04] <fullermd> Happy.  Solid and unproblematic.
[08:06] <vila> python 2.7 is the default in natty, 2.3 is targeted at natty, if they don't fit, they will be fixed :)
[08:08] <fullermd> Cool.
[08:08] <fullermd> Plan apparently is to move to 2.7 default on FreeBSD in ~March.
[08:09] <vila> the full test suite has been passing for quite some time and the betas were deployed there, so I'm pretty confident we'll know soon enough if anything *new* breaks
[08:10] <vila> Debian releasing, FreeBSD using python2.7 before Ubuntu, what's next ?
[08:11] <fullermd> You know Duke Nukem Forever is coming out, right?   ;)
[08:12] <vila> That's it, I can relax now, just a bad dream...
[08:13] <fullermd> "[...] on May 3, 2011 in North America and May 6, 2011 internationally!"
[08:13] <vila> Seeing is believing
[08:13] <fullermd> That means we're running out of time to port bzr to perl 6...
[08:15] <vila> bah, you always say that and then you actually stop sleeping at night and get things done...
[08:15] <poolie> ok i might call it a night
[08:15] <vila> . o O (how timely ;)
[08:15] <poolie> see you later guys
[08:15] <vila> poolie: see you
[08:15] <poolie> vila can you try to work out about getting the package-importer going?
[08:16] <vila> poolie: it's quite unclear to me at the moment *when* this should be restarted
[08:16] <vila> poolie: did the packaging branches got re-stacked yet ?
[08:17] <vila> poolie: should we restart on jubany ?
[08:20] <fullermd> Sadly, work leaves me no sleep to stop taking...
[08:22] <vila> I think you're on the right track... 1) stop working .... 4) profit... err wait
[08:40] <spiv> poolie: (even though you're not here) it is!  I'll queue it up, may as well fix that class of things thoroughly.
[08:51] <jelmer> hey spiv, vila, fullermd
[08:51] <vila> heya jelmer !
[08:52] <spiv> jelmer: hey :)
[08:53] <spiv> jelmer: I made https://code.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/vim/trunk today (they seem to have switched from svn to hg), should I go ahead and make it the dev focus?  (I'm guessing you're more up-to-date on the code import stuff than me...)
[08:54] <jelmer> spiv: Yeah, please do :)
[08:56] <spiv> jelmer: done, thanks :)
[09:05] <wgrant> Unstacking can be achieved just by opening the branch and calling set_stacked_on_url(None), right?
[09:05] <wgrant> It seems to work, but I am probably missing something crucial.
[09:06] <vila> wgrant: some revisions may need to copied from one repository to the other ?
[09:06] <vila> s/to copied/to be copied/
[09:06] <wgrant> vila: Doesn't that method do that?
[09:06] <wgrant> At least it takes forever over HPSS.
[09:06] <wgrant> Yeah, it populates the repository.
[09:07] <vila> oh, if it takes forever, there are good changes it does it indeed :-/
[09:07] <wgrant> But I have a script we can run on crowberry to do it all quickly for sid.
[09:08] <wgrant> Since hpss unstacking is far too slow, even from the DC.
[09:08] <vila> wgrant: ha, great, I wasn't sure you were working in that, yes, that's what should be done
[09:08] <wgrant> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/563762/
[09:08] <vila> s!in that!in/on that!
[09:09] <wgrant> Well, it was going to be tiny, so I thought I might as well try.
[09:11] <vila> wgrant: sounds correct, but I don't know lp internals :-/
[09:12] <vila> wgrant: I'm a bit surprised you need to set 'stacked_on' on both objects though...
[09:12] <wgrant> vila: Right, but I was wondering about bzr internals.
[09:12] <wgrant> set_stacked_on_url seems to handle the locking stuff itself.
[09:12] <vila> wgrant: yes, it has a @needs_write_lock
[09:16] <vila> wgrant: I think you should add some comments in that scripts (at least explaining the overall intent) and fire a mp against lp:udd
[09:16] <vila> wgrant: even if we don't use it until the next debian release, that will still keep track of the packaging branches layout
[09:17] <vila> wgrant: and keep us informed about how this script is going on and when it ends so we can restart the package importer ?
[09:18] <vila> wgrant: but first of all: thanks for your help here (my god, where are my manners...)
[09:20] <wgrant> vila: It probably belongs in the LP tree, given that it needs to be run on crowberry.
[09:22] <vila> wgrant: right, it needs to be run on crowberry, but how a newcomer (on lp or udd) will know that ?
[09:23] <vila> wgrant: i.e. won't it  be lost in the lp tree ?
[09:24] <lifeless> if its going to run on crowberry, it should be in the project that has the code fro running on crowberry :)
[09:25] <vila> Oh, I thought that was what dependencies were about...
[09:26] <lifeless> vila: this is an lp script, using internal lp modules
[09:27] <lifeless> we don't publish that as an API - and won't for the forseeable future
[09:28] <vila> fair enough, I'm just trying to track important bits regarding package importer sanity
[10:38] <vila> wgrant: any news ?
[10:45] <wgrant> vila: Apparently we are going to turn the importer back on, let it push up 22000 new branches, and clean up afterwards.
[10:45] <vila> *blink*
[10:45] <wgrant> Hopefully neither jubany nor crowberry will explode :)
[11:03] <jelmer> hmm, stacked branches don't support directory service lookups?
[11:03] <jelmer> I can't stack onto "lp:gedit"
[11:56] <maxb> jelmer: no, and even more annoying, LP doesn't support stacking on bazaar.launchpad.net/+branch/... either
[16:45] <jelmer> statik
[16:45] <jelmer> argh
[16:46] <jelmer> sorry, wrong mouse button
[16:48] <jelmer> vila: LarstiQ sends his regards
[16:48] <vila> jelmer: \o/
[16:48] <vila> jelmer: please proxy my best regards too ;)
[16:49] <jelmer> will do :)
[16:56] <jelmer> vila: is there a 2.3.1 planned yet?
[16:56] <vila> yes
[16:56] <jelmer> for when?
[16:56] <vila> but, like in a month
[16:56] <vila> ha, just a sec
[16:57] <vila> 2011-03-03 so far, err, no wait, I'll be in vacations :-.
[16:59] <vila> jelmer: well, dunno how we'll do it, but around this date anyway
[17:00] <jelmer> vila: that gives me a good enough idea, thanks :)
[17:02] <jelmer> vila: I found out there were quite a few bzr-gtk MPs that had been sitting there for more than half a year :-/
[17:02] <vila> jelmer: yeah, I saw the mails :-/
[17:57] <maxb> jelmer: Oh, speaking of bzr-gtk, we should make sure that the missing-credits.pickle-in-tarball bug doesn't recur this release.
[17:57] <jelmer> yeah :/
[18:01] <maxb> Personally I was thinking of just checking a copy into the branch, disabling all the automatic updating, and putting it on a release checklist to update it manually
[18:06] <jelmer> I think it might make sense to require it being run upon commits in trunk
[18:06] <jelmer> but yeah, checking it in seems reasonable
[18:12] <maxb> The problem with requiring it run upon commits to trunk is then every normal commit to trunk has to be followed by a credits.pickle update.
[18:13] <jelmer> the merge commit can include it
[19:56] <Buttons840> i have a .../level_a/level_b/...   the files/folders in level_b are revisioned, but i would now like to revision level_a while maintaining the changes to level_b?
[20:03] <GaryvdM> Buttons840: create branch at a, bzr join; commit, add a, commit
[20:03] <GaryvdM> jelmer: ping
[20:04] <GaryvdM> Buttons840: bzr join being the key...
[20:17] <jelmer> GaryvdM: hi
[20:18] <GaryvdM> Hi jelmer
[20:18] <GaryvdM> I want to ask, what version of bzr-svn should I use for bzr 2.3.0 windows installer.
[20:19] <GaryvdM> Latest from trunk (r3515) or r3475, as used in debian?
[20:19] <GaryvdM> jelmer ^
[20:24] <jelmer> GaryvdM: that's a good question
[20:24] <jelmer> I guess current trunk
[20:24] <GaryvdM> Ok
[20:25] <GaryvdM> And I'll do another build if you do a release. :-)
[20:27] <maxb> I wonder when we should push 2.3.0 out to the Ubuntu PPA.
[20:29] <GaryvdM> Hi maxb
[20:30] <GaryvdM> What plugins in the ppa are not compatible with 2.3 yet?
[20:30] <maxb> They're all compatible, but for some of them that's by being snapshots
[20:31] <GaryvdM> By snapshots, do you mean revision from trunk, rather than release version?
[20:31] <maxb> yes
[20:32] <maxb> bzr-fastimport (and python-fastimport)
[20:32] <maxb> bzr-gtk
[20:32] <maxb> bzr-loom
[20:32] <maxb> bzr-rewrite
[20:32] <maxb> bzr-svn
[20:32] <maxb> are the snapshot versions
[20:32] <GaryvdM> Then IMO, I'm sure it ok.
[20:46] <bbutz> I think I'm using reverse cherrypicking wrong
[20:47] <bbutz> I'll reverse merge a feature branch out of my trunk, and then I won't ever be able to merge that branch back in
[21:15] <awilkins> bbutz, If you've already merged the branch, it's not going to do it again (automatically)
[21:15] <awilkins> bbutz, You could cherry-pick it back in again :-)
[21:16] <bbutz> awilkins: was thinking about doing that, but now sad that all the branches I've made off trunk since are having some sense of the reverse merge and causing trouble
[21:53] <cbz> does bzr have an equivalent to svn:externals?
[21:53] <jelmer> cbz: not in the core, but there are some plugins that provide similar functionality
[21:54] <jelmer> e.g. the bzr-externals plugin
[21:54] <cbz> Okay, i'll take a look.
[21:54] <cbz> Also, is there some documentation on bzr internals? (I'm thinking similiar to the internals discussions in the mercurial and progit books)
[21:54] <cbz> Just t rying to understand the bzr conceptual model a little bit better
[22:00] <jelmer> cbz: there are some in the developers docs, in doc/developer in the source distribution
[22:01] <jelmer> g'morning poolie
[22:02] <jelmer> hi jam
[22:02] <jam> hi jelmerr, not around for a lot longer. but good to say hi :)
[22:02] <cbz> Thanks. I just wondered why none of the bazaar documentation doesn't include it (whereas in hg, you get a fairly detailed discussion of revlogs and filelogs)
[22:03] <jam> have a feverish son sitting in my lap while I type. Apparently I'm the go-to guy for fever. He won't sit with my wife right now
[22:03] <cbz> Similiarly git, where the progit book talks about object packs
[22:03] <jam> cbz: git is built around its data format. bzr tries to abstract it away
[22:03] <LeoNerd> bzr's had about 4 different data formats over the years, no? :)
[22:04] <jam> for example, you can use .git as your storage back end (for some levels of fidelity)
[22:04] <cbz> Okay, but even if it abstracts it away, isn't the abstract 'format' itself worth knowing, to understand how bzr works in a bit more detail?
[22:04] <jelmer> jam: :)
[22:04] <jam> cbz: pydoc bzrlib.repository.Repository ?
[22:04] <cbz> I'll take a look thanks.
[22:05] <poolie> hi jam
[22:05] <poolie> sorry k is ill
[22:06] <jam> poolie: yeah.
[22:06] <cbz> hmm.
[22:07]  * jelmer frees his hands of plates
[22:08] <jelmer> jam: That came out wrong, I was smiling to your greeting. I'm sorry to hear he's sick too :-/
[22:08] <jam> jelmer: I thought you were smiling about using .git as the back end. so no hard feelings here :)
[22:09] <jelmer> jam: heh, ok. Just making sure :)
[22:11] <jelmer> Anyway, I'd better be off too
[22:11] <jelmer> jam: See you later, and I hope he gets well soon
[22:11] <jam> have a good night, jelmer
[22:12] <spiv> cbz: I just landed a little bit more about that in the dev docs yesterday, it's in http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/bzr.dev/developers/overview.html
[22:14] <spiv> cbz: that doc is pretty abstract, and still pretty rough, but hopefully it helps
[22:27] <poolie> jam i feel i must be missing the point about hook naming
[22:27] <poolie> i agree about saving memory at load time, but surely this is a tiny microoptimization compared to just loading less code
[23:11] <cbz> spiv: thanks, that might be better. it appears to me that by the time i've hit the Repository code, the abstraction itself has been 'lost' in favour of translating into the underlying storage model
[23:27] <spiv> cbz: it depends on which operations you want to do, but generally speaking yes :/
[23:30] <poolie> hi spv
[23:30] <poolie> spiv, so bug 401646 looks feasible?
[23:31] <spiv> poolie: I haven't looked at the code yet, but I expect it'll be able to use the infrastructure I landed yesterday
[23:32] <spiv> So, probably straightforward
[23:33] <poolie> cool
[23:42] <kkrev> do the nested branches demonstrated in the centralized workflow tutorial contain complete copies of the source?  In our case that would be a ton of disk space.