[02:25] <bluesabre> Unit193: that's what we have ochosi for
[02:25] <bluesabre> :D
[02:25] <Unit193> Ah, you too high pitched? :3
[02:33] <bluesabre> yeah, pretty much
[02:33] <bluesabre> kinda lispy too
[02:33] <bluesabre> maybe I'll actually use a voice in my next screencast
[02:34] <Unit193> Just not mine...
[09:28] <flocculant> bluesabre knome - sort of was re screencast/slideshow - but not for long
[09:43] <slickymasterWork> dkessel, I'll double check that later at home
[12:06] <flocculant> though perhaps
[12:06] <flocculant> oh good lord
[12:07] <bluesabre> D:
[12:08] <flocculant> though perhaps we could have screenshots of a few customised desktops - starting from default - through a couple of other not default - back to finish on default on that slide
[12:08] <flocculant> is what I meant to type :)
[14:38] <flexiondotorg> flocculant, knome Have you heard from infinity regarding Base recently?
[14:38] <flocculant> flexiondotorg: nope - no contact
[18:36] <ochosi> knome: so, where can i check out your SASS branch? :)
[18:38]  * ochosi waits to be lured into SASS porting...
[20:04] <knome> ochosi, i haven't had time yet to create one...
[20:04] <ochosi> darn, three days left only...
[20:04] <knome> :P
[20:04] <ochosi> yeah, no worries, i mean we can also give the fixing the linked buttons another try
[20:05] <ochosi> although i gotta admit i'm a bit lost there
[20:05] <knome> i'm probably more lost than you are though
[20:05] <ochosi> ridiculous amount of lines: https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird/blob/master/gtk-3.0/gtk-widgets.css#L2948
[20:05] <knome> yeah
[20:06] <knome> maybe it would help me debug the problem (given i have time/motivation for that) if i knew exactly what wasn't working
[20:13] <ochosi> somehow the matching of linked buttons is messed up
[20:14] <ochosi> (that's about as specific as it gets ;))
[20:14] <ochosi> let me quickly do one obvious check...
[20:17] <ochosi> ok wow
[20:17] <ochosi> ambiance/radiance aka ubuntu have the same bug
[20:17] <ochosi> fun times
[20:17] <ochosi> they had no time/resources to fix that i suppose
[20:17] <ochosi> sucks that larsu left canonical for red hat
[20:18] <ochosi> i thought in the worst case we could've copied the code from them
[20:18] <ochosi> but it actually seems like they would have to borrow it from us
[20:18] <Unit193> They don't have any GTK people?
[20:19] <ochosi> i guess not anymore really
[20:20] <ochosi> when i met larsu at fosdem he said there are still devs who'd take care of this (he mentioned seb128 and Laney) but i suppose not
[20:21] <knome> "heh"
[20:21] <knome> ochosi, so would you have some time today?
[20:22] <ochosi> yeah, some
[20:22] <ochosi> fwiw, i have a version of greybird that looks less broken than the status quo
[20:23] <knome> you mean only like the next 15 mins then?
[20:23] <ochosi> it's a port of adwaita's linked buttons, but for some reason something doesn't work all the way
[20:23] <ochosi> basically the linked buttons look like normal buttons
[20:23] <knome> btw, i don't know what a linked button is
[20:23] <knome> ;)
[20:24] <ochosi> ok, linked buttons look like they are connected, so only the first and last one have rounded (outer) corners
[20:25] <knome> so they are window manager buttons?
[20:25] <knome> see, i'm lost
[20:25] <ochosi> http://i.imgur.com/Xj0hUPk.png
[20:25] <ochosi> e.g. the sidebar in parole
[20:26] <ochosi> less broken greybird: http://i.imgur.com/ki9saQQ.png
[20:26] <knome> aha
[20:26] <knome> ughhh
[20:26] <knome> that's horrible in its own way
[20:27] <ochosi> full broken ambiance (same as greybird trunk): http://i.imgur.com/wM77Z16.png
[20:27] <knome> haha
[20:27] <ochosi> so obviously the first/last matching is broken
[20:27] <ochosi> at *least*
[20:27] <knome> yeah
[20:27] <ochosi> plus the matching of all items in between
[20:27] <ochosi> ;)
[20:27] <knome> and this only happens with the gtk in xenial?
[20:29] <ochosi> yes
[20:29] <ochosi> craaaaaaap
[20:29] <ochosi> i think i'm seeing one problem
[20:29] <knome> yes?
[20:31] <ochosi> http://i.imgur.com/xIFD5dv.png
[20:31] <ochosi> one selector has a [3/7], the other one doesn't
[20:31] <ochosi> the one where it says [3/7] works, the other one doesn't
[20:31] <ochosi> so they must've changed something in the first-child - last-child matching
[20:31] <knome> yeah...
[20:31] <ochosi> plus, those buttons dont actually have the .linked class set
[20:31] <knome> hooray
[20:32] <Unit193> bluesabre: Might be a bit late now, but what about dropping build-essential off the ISO?  As a reference point, Kubuntu doesn't seem to have it.
[20:32] <ochosi> so i was probably looking in the wrong place
[20:35] <knome> Unit193, +1 for that, especially if it removes a meaningful amount of stuff
[20:35] <knome> should the buttons have the linked class set by gtk or the app?
[20:36] <ochosi> my guess is that this is the relevant part of adwaita: https://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/tree/gtk/theme/Adwaita/_common.scss?h=3.18.6#n692
[20:36] <ochosi> nope, i guess they don't need to
[20:36] <ochosi> being in an .inline-toolbar should suffice
[20:36] <knome> ok
[20:37] <knome> mmh
[20:37] <knome> i'm on my laptop now, so no can't really investigate this effectively
[20:37] <knome> i'm investigating the possibility to move to the desktop
[20:37] <knome> if you know what i mean...
[20:37] <ochosi> this is likely the compiled version of the scss: https://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/tree/gtk/theme/Adwaita/gtk-contained.css#n1049
[20:38] <knome> but didn't you say adwaita didn't work either?
[20:39] <ochosi> or to be more exact, this is the gtk3 version we need: https://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/tree/gtk/theme/Adwaita/gtk-contained.css?h=3.18.6#n1031
[20:39] <ochosi> nono, adwaita works
[20:39] <ochosi> only ambiance/radiance don't
[20:39] <ochosi> which are ubuntu's default themes
[20:40] <knome> ah
[20:46] <ochosi> anyhow, i have no idea how to correctly match one of those damn buttons
[20:46] <ochosi> i feel i can add any class i want
[20:47] <knome> lol
[20:47] <ochosi> seems it's either overridden by something else in the theme (could well be >4000 lines of css) or a weird mismatch
[20:47] <knome> does gtk support !important?
[20:47] <knome> just wondering..
[20:48] <knome> besides you could just add a very specific pattern to make sure it's not overriding that's happening
[20:49] <knome> or some other style definition, like red color :P
[20:49] <knome> to make sure the pattern is matching the button to begin with
[20:51] <ochosi> anyway, you got me playing with it, happy now..? :(
[20:51] <knome> oh yes
[20:51] <knome> play a bit more
[20:51] <knome> you touch my tra-la-la
[20:57] <ochosi> oh great :(
[20:58] <ochosi> bluesabre: so, this is actually *your* fault
[20:58] <ochosi> bluesabre: gotta set the "flat" class on the linked buttons and i guess then we're golden
[20:59] <knome> \o/
[20:59] <knome> at least we now know the fix...
[20:59] <knome> bbiab
[21:02] <ochosi> or not :)
[21:02] <ochosi> who knows ;)
[21:02] <ochosi> i mean after all it works in adwaita as i
[21:02] <ochosi> s
[21:03] <ochosi> at least i've narrowed it down a bit: the only button i get wrong now is the pen-ultimate
[21:03] <ochosi> that one for some reason is matched to "first-child"
[21:18] <ochosi> weird, after some reason after clicking "inspect" the button looks ok: http://i.imgur.com/e93ekcB.png
[21:19] <ochosi> (apart from the white border)
[21:25] <knome> nice work
[21:26] <knome> does those two buttons have some special styles in addition?
[21:27] <ochosi> bluesabre: so after letting the inspector redraw those buttons, they actually look ok, so i'd say it's a problem with the way the app is rendered (maybe something changed there in gtk3.18 and you need to redraw the widgets at some point or listen to some new signal...) http://i.imgur.com/A3QgoS4.png
[21:27] <ochosi> knome: nope, that would've been *far* too easy
[21:28] <knome> ;)
[21:28] <ochosi> it's something like what i outlined above
[21:28] <ochosi> so partly theming issue, partly an issue with the apps
[21:28] <knome> mhm
[21:28] <ochosi> i only found those inline toolbars in parole and menulibre
[21:28] <knome> should get the whip ready for bluesabre so he fixes the buttons ASAP
[21:28] <ochosi> i still have *zero* clue why this works in adwaita though
[21:28] <knome> lol, failure
[21:28]  * knome shrugs
[21:28] <knome> does it matter?
[21:28] <knome> :P
[21:29] <ochosi> well, to some extent it does i guess
[21:29] <knome> i know
[21:29] <knome> but for now...
[21:29] <ochosi> bluesabre could say "why should i fix this? or 'what'? it works in adwaita..."
[21:29] <ochosi> well yeah, it's a small victory
[21:29] <ochosi> albeit *small* ;)
[21:29] <knome> then he would be up for a few more whips
[21:29] <knome> so i'm pretty certain he doesn't say that
[21:30] <knome> besides, he is the xubuntu technical lead, xubuntu must be his passion and he would do anything to fix a bug in xubuntu... right?
[21:32] <slickymaster> evening all
[21:33] <slickymaster> dkessel, where do you see gmb in the -docs
[21:33] <slickymaster> ?
[21:34] <slickymaster> just went through rev. 531 and there are no references to it?
[21:35] <flocculant> evening slickymaster
[21:35] <slickymaster> hey flocculant
[21:35] <slickymaster> knome, where again is your slideshow branch?
[21:41] <Unit193> slickymaster: Perhaps he is looking at the non-English bits?
[21:41] <flocculant> slickymaster: here I believe lp:~xubuntu-doc/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/xubuntu-1604
[21:41] <flocculant> slickymaster: and looks like gmb in the translations
[21:41] <flocculant> indeed Unit193 :)
[21:42] <dkessel> slickymaster: Launchpad says to translate  user-docs/C/media-apps.xml:22(para)
[21:42] <dkessel> And more on that page
[21:42] <knome> slickymaster, flocculant is correct
[21:43] <knome> it's under ~xubuntu-doc for the reason that other people could push to it as well..
[21:43] <slickymaster> dkessel -> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/xubuntu-docs/xenial/view/head:/user-docs/C/media-apps.xml
[21:43] <slickymaster> no reference to gmb
[21:43] <slickymaster> thanks flocculant and knome
[21:44] <knome> slickymaster, have you updated the translation templates?
[21:44] <slickymaster> yes
[21:44] <slickymaster> when I pushed
[21:44] <knome> okay
[21:44] <knome> just making sure, becuase that would be the obvious issue...
[21:44] <dkessel> I see that it _should_ not be there ;)
[21:45] <slickymaster> flocculant, I saw you and bluesabre add a few thoughts to the slideshow pad
[21:45] <knome> dkessel, do you have the latest reveision for sure?
[21:45] <slickymaster> knome, I assume you also saw it
[21:45] <slickymaster> ^^
[21:45] <knome> yes
[21:45] <flocculant> http://paste.ubuntu.com/15323676/
[21:45] <slickymaster> does your branch reflect the reorder of the slides they proposed?
[21:45] <knome> no
[21:46] <slickymaster> ok flocculant. dkessel
[21:46] <slickymaster> going to push a new rev updating the translation updates
[21:47] <dkessel> :+1
[21:48] <flocculant> doesn't mean much to me but I'll +1 it anyway :p
[21:49] <slickymaster> hmmm the script isn't actually doing nothing :P
[21:49] <knome> slickymaster, :P
[21:50] <slickymaster> an you test it please, knome?
[21:50] <knome> test what?
[21:51] <slickymaster> the get-pot.sh script
[21:51] <Unit193> slickymaster: Nono!  make pot!
[21:52] <slickymaster> what Unit193?!
[21:52] <knome> slickymaster, run 'make pot'
[21:52] <slickymaster> done, anything else?
[21:53] <knome> slickymaster, see if it did anything... :P
[21:53] <slickymaster> scripts/get-pot.sh user-docs contributor-docs
[21:53] <slickymaster> Creating template for user-docs ...
[21:53] <slickymaster> Creating template for contributor-docs ...
[21:53] <knome> do you think you could now try pushing the changes :P
[21:54] <slickymaster> so, that's just it
[21:54] <knome> yes
[21:55] <slickymaster> thanks
[22:07] <ochosi> ok, pushed it
[22:07] <knome> puuush, puuush
[22:07] <ochosi> bluesabre: i *hope* my work is done here. maybe you can take it from here
[22:08] <knome> ochosi, assign a work item for him
[22:08] <ochosi> yeah, wait, there was a bugreport
[22:08] <knome> :)
[22:13] <ochosi> ok, i linked it to the -bugs blueprint: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/shimmer-themes/+bug/1552518
[22:13] <ochosi> that should be sufficient
[22:13] <knome> :)
[22:16] <ochosi> alright, that was the last known bug in greybird for gtk3.18 aka xenial
[22:17] <knome> unless they break something again!
[22:17] <ochosi> yup
[22:18] <ochosi> always a possibility
[22:18] <ochosi> i mean seriously, it's not even UI freeze yet ;)
[22:18] <Unit193> Turns out they opt to patch gtk3 rather than fix the themes. :D
[22:18] <ochosi> btw, i'm considering to postpone the factoring out of the distro specific parts of elementary-xfce
[22:18] <ochosi> unless someone else wants to do it
[22:18] <ochosi> it's mostly a packaging job anyway
[22:19] <ochosi> and not really that important
[22:19] <ochosi> i'd rather get the pidgin theme working
[22:19] <knome> ochosi, i could have a look at that.
[22:19] <ochosi> so anyway, i'm postponing it for now, everybody feel free to pick it up and reassign it
[22:19] <Unit193> I already split the packages, but didn't touch the icons.
[22:20] <ochosi> yeah, i mean we're currently updating the icons from git with debian/control iirc
[22:21] <ochosi> so we could theoretically branch in git and add some distro-specific icons there (or in an addon repo) and then check those out on top of elementary-xfce
[22:21] <Unit193> Proof of concept or something, though doubt it's what you're talking about: dget https://unit193.net/source/elementary-xfce-themes_16.04.dsc
[22:21] <ochosi> but it seems like quite a bit of trouble for ~20icons max
[22:21] <ochosi> oh yeah, that isn't
[22:22] <ochosi> what you have there is far more interesting than what i was talking about
[22:22] <ochosi> but then again, hopefully LO will ship the elementary theme itself
[22:23] <Unit193> Still would have elementary-xfce-icon-theme and the pidgin theme, I'd think.
[22:23] <ochosi> oh yeah, true that
[22:23] <ochosi> if we ever manage to install a theme in a non-destructive way
[22:23] <ochosi> alrighty, time for me to get some sleep
[22:23] <ochosi> night everyone!
[22:24] <knome> nighty ochosi
[22:24] <ochosi> knome: and thanks for "motivating" me ;)
[22:24] <knome> no problem! ;)
[22:33] <ochosi> bluesabre: and before i *really* go to sleep: what's up with gnome-software not respecting icon-themes? i don't suppose there's anything we can do about this anyhow...
[22:46] <knome> slickymaster, besides.. you should have page deletion permissions for all pages
[22:46] <knome> slickymaster, just save the page empty and it's deleted
[22:47] <bluesabre> evening all
[22:47] <knome> hello bluesabre
[22:47] <bluesabre> hey knome
[22:47] <slickymaster> did that knome
[22:47] <knome> slickymaster, and?
[22:47] <slickymaster> to no avail, but
[22:47] <bluesabre> ochosi: gnome-software probably can't know what icon to use for an app
[22:48] <knome> slickymaster, you are in @team, and @team has delete rights to all pages
[22:48] <slickymaster> at some point I was completely clueless if I was online or not
[22:48] <knome> :D
[22:49] <slickymaster> hey bluesabre
[22:51] <bluesabre> hey slickymaster
[22:52] <bluesabre> ochosi: libreoffice is actually shipping the theme now
[22:52] <pleia2> woo
[22:52] <bluesabre> !info libreoffice-style-elementary xenial
[22:52] <bluesabre> 1:5.1.0-0ubuntu1 is the magic sauce
[22:53] <bluesabre> as for getting it default, it seems like it might also happen
[22:53] <bluesabre> so yay there
[23:06] <slickymaster> quick question, are going with gnome-software or not?
[23:07] <slickymaster> bluesabre ^^
[23:07] <bluesabre> slickymaster: yes, believe so
[23:08] <slickymaster> ok
[23:08] <bluesabre> flocculant: you around?
[23:08] <slickymaster> think is already in the valley of dremas bluesabre
[23:09] <slickymaster> dreams also
[23:09] <bluesabre> figured
[23:09] <bluesabre> haven't seen a "please god no, no gnome-software", so let's assume that we're going for it
[23:09] <bluesabre> its on the iso already, so I think its also safe for me to mark that task complete
[23:10] <pleia2> oh, I forgot to continue our user text vote to the list, knome - good for me to keep voting open until friday?
[23:11] <knome> pleia2, yup, usually one week from the vote beginning
[23:11] <pleia2> k
[23:13] <slickymaster> knome, changed the Remove USC references in the docs-blueprint from blocked to inprogress and assigned to me
[23:13] <knome> slickymaster, good good
[23:13] <slickymaster> bad bad
[23:14] <knome> :P
[23:14] <knome> our burndown looks okayish even
[23:14] <slickymaster> I'm afraid I won't be able to translate the contributor-docs in time, though
[23:14] <knome> uh oh! :P
[23:15] <knome> but that's not critical
[23:15] <slickymaster> yeah, but I'd like it
[23:15] <slickymaster> it's a LTS
[23:16] <knome> but contributions mostly happen before LTS :P
[23:16] <slickymaster> yeah, but even so
[23:16] <knome> then i guess that's your headache ;)
[23:16] <slickymaster> anyway do you think you'll have the slideshow graphical aspect done with soon?
[23:17] <knome> i will have time tomorrow to work on it
[23:17] <knome> but that obviously doesn't fix the issues with content
[23:17] <knome> if there is something specific on the artwork side that you think blocks fixing the content, let me know and i'll tackle that first
[23:18] <slickymaster> do you already have any ideas for the first slide
[23:18] <slickymaster> ?
[23:18] <knome> no, and if i don't get any ideas, i'll just resort redrawing the same idea with a new look
[23:19] <slickymaster> what about xfce icon fading into ubuntu icon resulting a xubuntu icon
[23:19] <slickymaster> like a merge between the first two
[23:20] <knome> i'm still not convinced on that
[23:20] <slickymaster> bah
[23:21] <slickymaster> what do you don
[23:21] <knome> i'm not don
[23:21] <slickymaster> 't like in that?
[23:22] <slickymaster> my irrsi is lagging
[23:22] <knome> i think it's a bit too much and meh ;)
[23:22] <slickymaster> lol, two arguments :P
[23:24] <slickymaster> knome, last offer
[23:24] <knome> ahahah
[23:24] <slickymaster> one icon only
[23:24] <Unit193> bluesabre: So?  On the pingypingy?
[23:24] <knome> offer to create a demo for it... then i'll look at it :P
[23:25] <slickymaster> but continuously changing between the three, sort of a loop
[23:25] <knome> are we trying to cause epileptic seizures for people?
[23:26] <knome> besides, the xfce logo isn't a circle, so i'd imagine that'd look weird
[23:27] <slickymaster> http://qz.com/631500/what-its-really-like-to-have-dyslexia/
[23:27] <slickymaster> we could go for something like that
[23:27]  * slickymaster hides
[23:27] <knome> yeah, that would totally work...
[23:28] <slickymaster> that's made in javascript btw
[23:34] <pleia2> wxl: tsk, voluntelling
[23:35] <wxl> huh what did i do? XD
[23:35] <pleia2> :)


[02:48] <sml1226> CISO does not run? what am I doing wrong?
[02:49] <sml1226> I used apt-get to install, I see it in my bin folder but nothing happens when I try to open it
[03:13] <mib_pbpdw2am> anyone here?
[03:14] <mib_pbpdw2am> does xubuntu support plug and play
[03:19] <sml1226> of what?
[03:22] <mib_pbpdw2am> camera
[03:22] <mib_pbpdw2am> ?
[03:22] <sml1226> usb?
[03:22] <mib_pbpdw2am> yup
[03:22] <sml1226> probably then
[03:22] <sml1226> I haven't had trouble w/ any of my stuff
[03:23] <mib_pbpdw2am> what about camcorders w/o plug and play
[03:23] <mib_pbpdw2am> as in need a driver from a cd?
[03:23] <mib_pbpdw2am> will windows driver disk work?
[03:24] <sml1226> no, either linux has the driver for it or it won't work
[03:24] <mib_pbpdw2am> ouh
[03:24] <mib_pbpdw2am> thaks
[03:24] <mib_pbpdw2am> thanks
[03:24] <sml1226> win drivers don't work unless you mess with them and then they are linux drivers technically
[03:25] <mib_pbpdw2am> 1 last question
[03:25] <sml1226> so if pnp then yes but if not then maybe
[03:25] <mib_pbpdw2am> where can i look for the drivers?
[03:25] <TheSheep> if someone wrote code to support it, it's already included in the kernel
[03:25] <sml1226> thanks Sheep
[03:25] <sml1226> I had no clue
[03:26] <TheSheep> unless it's some closed-source code, then you might find it with system->hardware drivers
[03:26] <sml1226> only used for short time but my stuff works
[03:26] <sml1226> so can anybody tell me why ciso won't work?
[03:27] <mib_pbpdw2am> so if i were to install xubuntu. i can just plug my internet via eternet?
[03:28] <mib_pbpdw2am> sound drivers?
[03:28] <mib_pbpdw2am> sorry lots of question
[03:28] <sml1226> if the nic is supported then yes
[03:28] <sml1226> audio card must be supported as well
[03:28] <TheSheep> sml1226: I think it's a command-ine tool
[03:28] <TheSheep> line
[03:28] <sml1226> look around for compatability
[03:29] <TheSheep> mib_pbpdw2am: everything that works should work out of the box, or with some config changes
[03:29] <sml1226> ok, I need to figure out how to use it then :(
[03:29] <TheSheep> sml1226: open a terminal and type 'ciso --help'
[03:29] <mib_pbpdw2am> alright! thanks ppl
[03:29] <mib_pbpdw2am> downloading now
[03:29] <mib_pbpdw2am> ^^
[03:30] <TheSheep> mib_pbpdw2am: ah, no drivers, but you will probably need to download codecs for movies and mp3
[03:30] <TheSheep> !codecs
[03:30] <sml1226> TheSheep: same result as when i type ciso w/o --help
[03:30] <TheSheep> sml1226: that is?
[03:30] <sml1226> Compressed ISO9660 converter Ver.1.01 by BOOSTER
[03:30] <sml1226> Usage: ciso level infile outfile
[03:30] <sml1226>   level: 1-9 compress ISO to CSO (1=fast/large - 9=small/slow
[03:30] <sml1226>          0   decompress CSO to ISO
[03:31] <sml1226> that
[03:31] <TheSheep> it tells you how to use it
[03:31] <sml1226> wow im dumb
[03:31] <sml1226> thanks a lot
[03:31] <mib_pbpdw2am> i should download this one rite xubuntu-9.04-desktop-i386.iso   ??
[03:32] <TheSheep> mib_pbpdw2am: yes
[03:32] <TheSheep> mib_pbpdw2am: unless you're low on ram
[03:32] <mib_pbpdw2am> meaning?
[03:33] <TheSheep> mib_pbpdw2am: the graphical installer on that cd won't run very well with less than, say, 256MB of ram
[03:33] <sml1226> TheSheep, it's working now. I just blanked out completely there. I would've figured it out eventually but thanks for the help
[03:34] <sml1226> I am forced to go text based b/c 220MB ram
[03:34] <mib_pbpdw2am> i think i have 256 - 8mb for shared memory
[03:34] <TheSheep> mib_pbpdw2am: then it's ok
[03:34] <mib_pbpdw2am> kk
[03:35] <TheSheep> sml1226: actually it works with 196MB of ram, but it's slow then
[03:36] <sml1226> live-cd crashes and won't move on on the ps3
[03:36] <sml1226> too little ram
[03:37] <sml1226> have to use a alt-instal
[03:37] <sml1226> on newer versions at least
[03:37] <TheSheep> ah, ps3
[03:37] <TheSheep> it has a different cpu
[03:38] <sml1226> yep not much ram but 2 3.2ghz cores (ppc-64   :( )
[03:38] <TheSheep> it has so little ram? strange
[03:38] <TheSheep> my DS has 4MB :)
[03:38] <TheSheep> and runs linux :)
[03:39] <TheSheep> not X though
[03:39] <sml1226> game sys not need much but os does, sony needs a "cell-os" that has been rumored
[03:39] <mib_pbpdw2am> ds with linux?
[03:39] <mib_pbpdw2am> cool crap
[03:39] <mib_pbpdw2am> haha
[03:39] <TheSheep> yup
[03:39] <mib_pbpdw2am> can psp do that
[03:40] <TheSheep> yes
[03:40] <TheSheep> but I never managed to do taht myself
[03:40] <sml1226> full cell bbe support and the RSX chip if sony makes one but it will be restrictive i guarantee it
[03:40] <sml1226> PSP one is hard to do
[03:41] <sml1226> even now w/ stripped method
[03:41] <TheSheep> you need a cracked psp of course, but there is a linux image for it
[03:41] <sml1226> my psp is 5.00 M33-6 right now
[03:41] <sml1226> I'm putting my GOW UMD on the mem stick
[03:43] <mib_pbpdw2am> thanks again guty
[03:43] <mib_pbpdw2am> guys
[03:43] <mib_pbpdw2am> gtg now
[03:43] <mib_pbpdw2am> ^^
[03:44] <sml1226> next its spyro 3 for the ps1
[03:44] <sml1226> GOW is reason for CISO
[03:51] <sml1226> Scroll wheel doesn't work? fixes? its usb if it makes a difference
[03:52] <TheSheep> what does xev say?
[03:52] <TheSheep> open terminal, run 'xev' and scroll the mouse over the window
[03:52] <TheSheep> !pastebin
[03:57] <sml1226> http://paste.ubuntu.com/187871/
[03:58] <SupahBoy> hello, anyone have a minute?
[03:58] <sml1226> whatcha need?
[03:58] <SupahBoy> trying to figure out why my xubuntu is running slow =/
[03:58] <SupahBoy> i installed it on a ext3 partition
[03:58] <SupahBoy> and added a 4 gig swap space partition
[03:59] <SupahBoy> my specs are 1.6 ghz and 2 gigs of ram
[03:59] <TheSheep> sml1226: can't see any button/scrollwheel events :/
[03:59] <TheSheep> should be fast as lightning
[03:59] <sml1226> I know nothing is there so ???
[03:59] <TheSheep> maybe see what takes all the cpu in the system monitor
[04:00] <SupahBoy> any advice on my problem sml1226
[04:00] <sml1226> my ps3 runs smooth w/ less than a gig of swap and 220mb ram so no clue unless you are running a lot
[04:00] <TheSheep> SupahBoy: open system->system monitr and see what's taking all the cpu
[04:01] <sml1226> check it and get back to us
[04:02] <sml1226> sheep u got hacked psp?
[04:02] <SupahBoy> i go to process right and then %CPU
[04:02] <sml1226> I used ciso and copied the game and it won't recognize my game
[04:02] <SupahBoy> gnome-system monitor is the one thats using the most
[04:03] <TheSheep> SupahBoy: what's slow exactly?
[04:03] <SupahBoy> like it hangs
[04:03] <SupahBoy> alt tab
[04:03] <SupahBoy> switching between workspace
[04:03] <SupahBoy> between chats on pidgin
[04:04] <TheSheep> ah, that's a new "feature" of xfce I'm afraid, I have the same thing
[04:04] <SupahBoy> if i go to youtube to watch a video and try and scroll the page lags
[04:04] <TheSheep> try disabling compositing
[04:04] <sml1226> I get very little lag while trying alt tab on 9.04
[04:04] <TheSheep> you have an intel graphics card?
[04:04] <sml1226> w/ compositor
[04:04] <SupahBoy> yes
[04:04] <TheSheep> sml1226: it depends on the card
[04:04] <SupahBoy> im using a netbook
[04:05] <SupahBoy> where can i disable compositor
[04:05] <sml1226> go to system settings and window manager tweaks
[04:05] <TheSheep> I liked the old behavior more, where it didn't wait for refresh -- made the screen messy for a blink of an eye, but worked faster
[04:05] <TheSheep> the new one waits for a full refresh, it's cleaner but slower
[04:05] <SupahBoy> both of my cpus are at 50% and im only running firefox and pidgin
[04:06] <sml1226> I didn't like the fuzz but i could tolerate it
[04:06] <TheSheep> hmm
[04:06] <TheSheep> open a terminal and run 'sudo top'
[04:07] <SupahBoy> at the top is xorg
[04:07] <SupahBoy> then the gnome system monitor then pidgin
[04:07] <TheSheep> hmm...
[04:07] <TheSheep> xrestop maybe
[04:08] <TheSheep> might be not installed by default
[04:08] <SupahBoy> that xorg thing takes 50 - 60% of the cpu
[04:08] <SupahBoy> what is xorg?
[04:08] <sml1226> I have 5 things open now and my cpus are at 10% and 5% so something is goofed up in your install
[04:09] <sml1226> plus processes
[04:09] <TheSheep> SupahBoy: the window system
[04:09] <SupahBoy> and yeah this xrestop isnt installed
[04:09] <TheSheep> SupahBoy: things that display a lot of changing graphics made it take lots of cpu
[04:09] <TheSheep> SupahBoy: usually flash or javascript
[04:10] <sml1226> Xorg is using 25% but sys monitor doesn't show it
[04:10] <TheSheep> sml1226: that's because xorg runs as a different user
[04:10] <SupahBoy> oh wow i took off comp
[04:10] <sml1226> oh duh
[04:10] <SupahBoy> and xorg went dow
[04:10] <SupahBoy> to like 8%
[04:10] <sml1226> yay!!!
[04:10] <SupahBoy> nvm it went backup
[04:11] <sml1226> but your netbook should fly
[04:11] <SupahBoy> should i instal this xreestop
[04:11] <SupahBoy> thats why imseeking help
[04:11] <SupahBoy> xD
[04:11] <TheSheep> won't hurt
[04:11] <sml1226> what's it say about ram?
[04:11] <SupahBoy> i have 2 gigs
[04:12] <sml1226> I mean sys monitor say how much is used. what's it at?
[04:12] <SupahBoy> oh
[04:12] <SupahBoy> on memory
[04:12] <SupahBoy> 18.7%
[04:12] <sml1226> yah
[04:13] <SupahBoy> 375.9 mb
[04:13] <SupahBoy> MiB*
[04:13] <sml1226> k
[04:13] <SupahBoy> 0% on my swap
[04:13] <SupahBoy> finished installing the xrestop
[04:13] <sml1226> my mem is at 70% and swap at 50%
[04:13] <SupahBoy> mind if i ask whats it for
[04:13] <SupahBoy> oh
[04:13] <SupahBoy> so that means my system isnt working properly?
[04:14] <sml1226> slower but tolerable
[04:14] <SupahBoy> i installed compiz desktop effects
[04:14] <sml1226> no yours is fine on mem but cpu is goofy
[04:14] <SupahBoy> but i couldng figure out how to run them so im going to uninstall it
[04:14] <sml1226> compiz takes a LOT of power
[04:14] <sml1226> if its running :)
[04:15] <TheSheep> yeah, it sucks on laptops, drains the battery
[04:15] <SupahBoy> alrigt
[04:15] <SupahBoy> alright*
[04:15] <SupahBoy> got it removed
[04:15] <sml1226> xfce compositor is much lighter on system
[04:15] <SupahBoy> first cpu is at 60% 2nd is at 40%
[04:16] <SupahBoy> once i install the xrestop
[04:16] <SupahBoy> does it run automatcally?
[04:16] <TheSheep> no
[04:16] <TheSheep> it's like top
[04:16] <TheSheep> only for xorg alone
[04:16] <TheSheep> tells you which windows take the most resources
[04:16] <SupahBoy> ohhhh i see
[04:17] <TheSheep> there is also powertop for when you want to see what drains the battery
[04:17] <SupahBoy> gnome system monitoris takign 42%
[04:17] <SupahBoy> and xorg 44%
[04:17] <TheSheep> close it :)
[04:18] <SupahBoy> what in the world
[04:18] <SupahBoy> why is my cpu workign so harrd
[04:18] <SupahBoy> im not running anythin
[04:18] <SupahBoy> ok i closed fire fox and now they are both running on 35%
[04:18] <SupahBoy> - 44%
[04:18] <SupahBoy> around there
[04:19] <SupahBoy> im only running pidgin
[04:19] <TheSheep> close gnome system monitor
[04:19] <SupahBoy> that is a lot of cpu usage for just pidgin dont you think
[04:19] <SupahBoy> done
[04:20] <SupahBoy> did i do anything wrong by installing on ext3
[04:20] <SupahBoy> and adding a 3.8 gig partition?
[04:22] <SupahBoy> hmm
[04:22] <SupahBoy> no more ideas
[04:22] <SupahBoy> ?
[04:23] <sml1226> really need external hdd now
[04:23] <sml1226> just saw free space in sys monitor and i have 2.7GB free
[04:23] <sml1226> :( :( :(
[04:23] <SupahBoy> =/
[04:24] <SupahBoy> i have a 49 gigs left
[04:24] <SupahBoy> hmm  i dont have a 64 bit system so i should be using the i386 version
[04:25] <SupahBoy> why does it run so slow =/
[04:25] <sml1226> hey sheep you know about psp cfw? off topic but i need help
[04:28] <sml1226> i have no clue how to help you supahboy so sorry but g2g
[05:01] <owen1> i am trying pair-programming using screen, vim and chroot and have issues - http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1177893
[05:07] <TheSheep> ugh
[05:07] <TheSheep> screen goes too deeply into various system internals
[05:08] <TheSheep> it doesn't chroot well
[05:08] <TheSheep> you would probably run into further issues after solving that
[05:08] <TheSheep> why not give him a separate account?
[05:09] <TheSheep> and chgrp/chown the file so that you can both edit it?
[05:20] <halz> hi folks. I"M trying to get my wireless card to start on boot up. I can get it started manual
[05:28] <owen1> TheSheep: i am willing to try it.
[05:32] <owen1> TheSheep: what do u mean my separate account? i created new user - guest.
[07:53] <owen1> anyone knows what TheSheep means by seperate account? is it something like this - http://www.securityfocus.com/infocus/1404
[09:59] <Myrtti> is it just me, or is it impossible to create shortcuts in thunar in jaunty?
[09:59] <BrixSat> Hello
[09:59] <BrixSat> i have installed using tasksel the xubuntu desktop, and how can i disable it from autostart?
[10:03] <SiDi> Myrtti, you ;)
[10:03] <Myrtti> meh.
[10:04] <BrixSat> Any help :p
[10:04] <ablomen> Myrtti, like a shortcut to a folder or something? hold ctrl+shift while dragging
[10:05] <Myrtti> ablomen: yeah, and tried that, doesn't work either :-/
[10:06] <ablomen> hmm, well im on feisty atm so cant test it myself, sorry
[10:06] <Myrtti> BrixSat: Applications - settings - sessions and startup?
[10:07] <BrixSat> Myrtti, what do i disable?
[10:08] <BrixSat> lunch gnome services on startup?
[10:09] <Myrtti> hold on, I reread your question
[10:09] <Myrtti> how can you disable it from autostart? you've got automatic login in gdm enabled
[10:09] <BrixSat> no
[10:09] <BrixSat> i want to stop on shell login
[10:09] <SiDi> !initrd
[10:09] <BrixSat> and not on xubuntu login
[10:09] <SiDi> !init
[10:10] <SiDi> See update-rc.d BrixSat
[10:10] <SiDi> it should be set to 3 for shell login
[10:10] <BrixSat> :)
[10:11] <BrixSat> sidi where is that file?
[10:15] <SiDi> its a command
[10:16] <SiDi> try to install bum otherwise, i dont know how these things work
[10:16] <BrixSat> :p sudo update-rc.d -f gdm remove
[10:16] <BrixSat> :p thank will reboot to see
[11:24] <Myrtti> ok, so the shortcut appears on my places menu, if I do "echo file:/path/to/dir >> ~/.gtk-bookmarks" but not in thunar
[11:29] <ablomen> hmm long shot, but over here its file:///path/to/dir, might be it?
[11:31] <Myrtti> oh, so it was with me too
[11:45] <Myrtti> I wish I'd understand strace
[12:24] <mib_xtjb8qi5> hie all
[12:24] <orh> guys
[12:25] <orh> how to install drivers?
[12:25] <orh> http://www.avasys.jp/lx-bin2/linux_e/spc/DL1.do
[12:25] <orh> what do i do
[12:25] <orh> which do i download
[12:26] <knome> the one you need
[12:27] <orh> which one is that?
[12:27] <knome> select your printer model, please
[12:27] <orh> i need cx7300
[12:27] <orh> then go alot of files
[12:28] <orh> .rpm, .deb , .gz , .changes, ??
[12:28] <knome> .deb
[12:28] <orh> then i just double click?
[12:29] <knome> yes
[12:29] <orh> kk
[12:29] <orh> will ask you more later
[12:29] <orh> haha
[12:29] <orh> around 2 hrs
[12:29] <orh> thanks ya!
[12:58] <mnemoc> hi, running 8.10+4.6 (from ppa) how does one tell the window manager to use two screens (notebook + vga) separated? xrandr --auto activated the vga but as the aspect is different I got the panel bottom bar in the middle of the screen :p
[13:00] <mnemoc> (xfce's screen wizard shows only one)
[13:18] <mnemoc> do you know what "RADEON(0): Supported Future Video Modes:" means? modes supported by the device but not by the driver?
[13:18] <rocksleeping> hello saluton hallo moin moin hola
[13:19] <SiDi> bonjour
[13:19] <rocksleeping> kiel vi fartas? how is everyone? was ist los?
[13:26] <mnemoc> ok, I'm making too much noise, sorry!
[14:24] <Slonkie> I've been trying to do this for some while now.. How do i make thunar jump infront of the other windows when i open it?
[14:31] <cody-somerville> Slonkie, what do you mean?
[14:31] <cody-somerville> Slonkie, Does it not?
[14:34] <Slonkie> Sometimes it does, but not allways, cody-somerville :/.
[14:34] <cody-somerville> Slonkie, It might have to do with your focus stealing prevention settings set in xfwm4
[14:36] <cody-somerville> Slonkie, or it could be a bug.
[14:38] <Slonkie> i think it was the focus thing. I weren't aware what that really was
[14:38] <Slonkie> but now thunar seems to open as i wanted it to. Thanks! :).
[15:09] <mib_xbbk9uuh> guys
[15:09] <mib_xbbk9uuh> i cant install xubuntu
[15:09] <mib_xbbk9uuh> need help
[15:09] <SiDi> why cant you ?
[15:11] <mib_xbbk9uuh> no idea
[15:12] <mib_xbbk9uuh> after the running hamster
[15:12] <mib_xbbk9uuh> it goes black
[15:13] <mib_xbbk9uuh> im so stressed out
[15:13] <mib_xbbk9uuh> haha
[15:17] <mnemoc> hi, me again. does 8.10 (+4.6) support dual head via xrandr or only using xinerama?
[15:17] <charlie-tca> Xfce 4.6 only supports xrandr
[15:20] <mib_xbbk9uuh> is there anyreason y it would go blank?
[15:26] <SiDi> mib_xbbk9uuh, no drivers for your graphics card could be a reason
[15:26] <SiDi> what hardware do you have, what cd are you using ?
[15:26] <SiDi> any error message popping up ?
[15:27] <mib_xbbk9uuh> nope
[15:27] <mib_xbbk9uuh> no error massages
[15:28] <mib_xbbk9uuh> im using the onboard grafix
[15:32] <mnemoc> charlie-tca: any Idea why, having both screens working fine xrandr-wise, the screen wizard only sees one and the panel is also stick on the LVDS even after xfce4-panel --restart?
[15:35] <mib_xbbk9uuh> whats the diff between alternate and the normal iso?
[15:39] <ochosi> mib_xbbk9uuh, the alternative iso has the older, command-line-like install system whereas the normal one has a live system
[15:39] <DetroitLibertyPe> normal is a live CD with optional boot loader, alternate is a more tradiational Linux install CD prvoiding with more options during install, but can't run the Live Version to see if you likit first
[15:40] <mib_xbbk9uuh> thats all?
[15:40] <DetroitLibertyPe> as far as I know
[15:40] <DetroitLibertyPe> I know on my old machine it will play the Ubuntu "normal" but not the Xubuntu "normal" but after install Xubuntu runs much better than Ubuntu
[15:41] <charlie-tca> mnemoc: I don't know, but following many questions asked in #xfce, I do know 4.6 uses xrandr
[15:42] <mnemoc> charlie-tca: thanks, it's a great time saving hint (not wasting time on xinerama). I'll keep researching
[15:42] <charlie-tca> no problem
[15:43] <mib_xbbk9uuh> so now, since my pc goes blank after the "start up" page, will alternate help?
[15:43] <DetroitLibertyPe> yes
[15:43] <mib_xbbk9uuh> alright
[15:43] <mib_xbbk9uuh> is there any command i need to type in?
[15:49] <SiDi> mib_xbbk9uuh, the alternate CD's installer is just less sexy
[15:49] <SiDi> but there will be no "command" to type
[15:49] <SiDi> more likely your computer should run after the system. The normal CD sometimes has problems with specific hardware
[15:50] <SiDi> (and there are a LOT of different onboard graphics btw ;) )
[15:52] <mib_xbbk9uuh> less sexy. love the term. haha,anyway 1) will i need to do a format b4 installing? 2) alternate cd support more hardware?
[15:54] <SiDi> its not exactly that it supports more hardware. Some hardware has problems for running the liveCD graphically, but they work once it is installed
[15:54] <SiDi> I couldn't explain you the 'whys' exactly as i dont know them
[15:55] <SiDi> you'll need to burn the alternate cd's iso to a cd-rom and put it on the drive, exactly the same way you'd do for the normal CD
[15:55] <SiDi> and of course, you'll need free space on your disk, that will be partitioned by the installer
[15:57] <mib_xbbk9uuh> i tried the normal ones.. its shows the menu. after i select the install xubuntu, it goes to the running hamster. then it goes blank. will the alternate work? haha. sorry for being such an irritant ^^
[16:12] <SiDi> mib_xbbk9uuh, i dont know but it is worth trying :)
[16:14] <DetroitLibertyPe> mib_xbbk9uuh:I had similar problems and the alternate CD worked find for me
[16:36] <Slonkie> How do i make an dir writeable for an ftp user?
[16:37] <Slonkie> chmod +x 777 ?
[16:39] <mib_xbbk9uuh> hello
[16:40] <mib_xbbk9uuh> the extension to install is .deb?
[16:40] <Slonkie> what extension?
[16:40] <charlie-tca> to install ??
[16:40] <mib_xbbk9uuh> dri\/ers
[16:41] <SiDi> mib_xbbk9uuh, perdon ? .deb files are packages for either Debian or ubuntu, but i'd like you to let us know which .deb you're talking about
[16:41] <SiDi> Slonkie, 755 if you care about your FTP
[16:41] <Slonkie> What rights does that give, SiDi ?
[16:41] <Slonkie> It's just for internal use
[16:41] <SiDi> Slonkie, still :p
[16:41] <SiDi> 7 means right to read/write/pass through
[16:41] <SiDi> the first number is you, second is the group you're in, third is "all users"
[16:42] <Slonkie> so how do i do? do i just type sudo chmod +x 755 ?
[16:42] <SiDi> the 5 means read and pass
[16:42] <SiDi> but not write
[16:42] <mib_xbbk9uuh> http://www.avasys.jp/lx-bin2/linux_e/spc/DL2.do
[16:42] <SiDi> chmod 755 nameoffolder
[16:42] <Slonkie> thanks.
[16:42] <mib_xbbk9uuh> its the deb one rite?
[16:42] <SiDi> needa go Slonkie ask me later if you're in trouble ;)
[16:42] <SiDi> check his deb pls :P
[16:42] <Slonkie> heh have fun ;).
[16:43] <Slonkie> mib_xbbk9uuh sorry i can't read that language, but yes, you chould install a .deb in xubuntu
[16:43] <mib_xbbk9uuh> kk
[16:44] <mib_xbbk9uuh> so i ha\/e to install that
[16:44] <mib_xbbk9uuh> haha
[16:44] <mib_xbbk9uuh> thaks
[17:00] <mib_uly8m1fx> how do i get flash player on the 9.04 ubuntu?
[17:00] <mib_uly8m1fx> xubuntu i mean
[17:01] <Slonkie> Personally i'm using the adobe-flashplugin from the repos. SImply type sudo apt-get install adobe-flashplugin in terminal or install it from the synaptics package manager
[17:02] <mib_uly8m1fx> where to type?
[17:02] <Slonkie> In the Terminal.
[17:02] <mib_uly8m1fx> where is tha?
[17:02] <mib_uly8m1fx> sory im super new
[17:03] <Slonkie> Use the synaptic
[17:03] <mib_uly8m1fx> i press application then?
[17:03] <Slonkie> It's in the Applications -> System
[17:03] <Slonkie> Then search for adobe-flashplugin
[17:05] <mib_uly8m1fx> application - system then?
[17:05] <Slonkie> synaptics
[17:06] <mib_uly8m1fx> k im in the synaptic package manager
[17:06] <mib_uly8m1fx> tjem?
[17:06] <mib_uly8m1fx> then
[17:06] <Slonkie> search...
 Then search for adobe-flashplugin
[17:07] <mib_uly8m1fx> cant find?
[17:08] <Slonkie> Well it's there
[17:09] <charlie-tca> mib_uly8m1fx: click the search button, not the quick search. Search for "adobe"
[17:09] <DetroitLibertyPe> mib_uly8m1fx: try the add/remove instead of synaptich, its an easier GUI, and search for flash
[17:09] <charlie-tca> or search for "flashplugin"
[17:09] <DetroitLibertyPe> though sudo apt-get install adobe-flashplugin from terminal will be your quickest solution
[17:16] <mib_uly8m1fx> is it suppose to lag!! hahaa. or is my system too useless?
[17:16] <mib_uly8m1fx> haha
[17:17] <mib_uly8m1fx> anyway. i still cant find the adobe
[18:03] <Mkop> where do I set what keyboard shortcut changes the keyboard layout I'm using?
[18:04] <ochosi> Mkop, you can set keyboard shortcuts in the menu > settings > keyboard > application shortcuts
[18:05] <Mkop> what command do I use to switch keyboard layout?
[18:10] <TheSheep> the keyboard switcher applet
[18:10] <TheSheep> on the panel
[18:11] <TheSheep> !layout
[18:16] <ochosi> Mkop, if you're on xfce 4.6 (xubuntu 9.04) you can also use xfconf to do that
[18:16] <ochosi> Mkop, that way you could actually bind the keyboard-layout switching to a keyboard-shortcut without using the panel plugin
[18:17] <ochosi> Mkop, but the panel plugin is probably easier to hande,
[18:17] <ochosi> *handle
[18:17] <Mkop> yeah, I found the panel plugin and that works just fine
[18:18] <Mkop> also gives an easy way to know which layout I'm using at the moment
[18:18] <Mkop> and allows me to use different layouts per application, which is nice
[18:19] <Mkop> hmm, at some point I need to get the eject button on my CD drive working
[18:20] <zoredache> why do you think it doesn't work?
[18:20] <zoredache> are you trying to eject a mounted disk?  You won't be allowed to do that
[18:20] <Mkop> I want the button to unmount and eject
[18:22] <zoredache> well good luck, I doubt it is possible though
[21:20] <SupahBoy> xubuntu
[21:20] <SupahBoy> oh sry
[21:20] <SupahBoy> hello
[21:20] <Slonkie> !hi | SupahBoy
[21:21] <SupahBoy> thanks
[21:21] <SupahBoy> do you all have a couple of minutes to spare
[21:21] <SupahBoy> i have a bit of a problem
[21:21] <SupahBoy> =(
[21:22] <charlie-tca> !question | SupahBoy
[21:22] <SupahBoy> alright thanks, well i have a asus netbook 900ha  1.6ghz, 2gigs of ram , i have installed a lot of distros to find a fast one for my net book
[21:23] <SupahBoy> but none of them seem to be fast , they all seem to hang idk if im doing something wrong. ive seen videos on xubuntu on eee pcs on youtube and they run wicked fast
[21:23] <SupahBoy> i installed xubuntu on my 2nd partition and made a 3rd with 4 gigs of swap space (3.8 gigs actually) but it still runs really slow
[21:23] <Slonkie> Maybe you diden't install graphics card drivers?
[21:24] <Slonkie> My xubuntu seemed very slow too until i installed the drivers.
[21:24] <m45h> HI all
[21:25] <m45h> again in the wrong Ubuntu support channel
[21:25] <SupahBoy> yah i havent installed any drivers
[21:25] <Slonkie> Try that, SupahBoy.
[21:25] <Slonkie> Your specs seems more than good enough to run xubuntu above smootly i'd say.
[21:26] <SupahBoy> how would i go about doing that, maybe that can help me out
[21:28] <SupahBoy> how would i install that?
[21:29] <Slonkie> google lol :|
[21:29] <SupahBoy> sorry about that
[21:29] <SupahBoy> d/c
[21:29] <SupahBoy> how would i go about installing card drivers?'
[21:29] <SupahBoy> graphic card*
[21:30] <Slonkie> Try googling for a linux driver for your gfx
[21:31] <SupahBoy> gfx?
[21:31] <SupahBoy> you mean the xfce?
[21:31] <knome> graphic card
[21:31] <SupahBoy> oh ok
[21:31] <SupahBoy> now all i need is to figure out what graphics card i have
[21:32] <knome> SupahBoy, try system -> hardware drivers
[21:32] <knome> SupahBoy, it might know your GC already and propose a driver
[21:32] <Slonkie> I thought that one would popup automaticly, knome :/.
[21:32] <Slonkie> Atleast it did for me
[21:33] <knome> Slonkie, double-check is never bad
[21:33] <Slonkie> true
[21:34] <SupahBoy> knome?
[21:34] <knome> SupahBoy, yes?
[21:34] <knome> SupahBoy, check your menu: System -> Hardware Drivers
[21:34] <SupahBoy> ohhhh nothing xD
[21:35] <SupahBoy> i thought it was like gnome i didnt realize it was a user here
[21:35] <knome> yes, i am a user :P
[21:35] <Slonkie> lspci | grep VGA
[21:35] <Slonkie> Type in that SupahBoy, should give you an outline of what graphics card
[21:35] <SupahBoy> hmm i only get a alternate atheros "madwifi" driver
[21:37] <SupahBoy> 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation Mobile 945GME Express Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 03)
[21:38] <Slonkie> All i can say is, google is your friend.
[21:46] <Slonkie> hey SupahBoy
[21:46] <Slonkie> you there?
[21:47] <Slonkie> http://downloadcenter.intel.com/filter_results.aspx?strTypes=all&ProductID=2886&OSFullName=Linux*&lang=eng&strOSs=39&submit=Go!
[21:53] <SupahBoy> oh yes sry
[22:02] <SupahBoy> thank you slonkie
[22:16] <Slonkie> did it work, SupahBoy ?
[22:16] <SupahBoy> i havent been able
[22:16] <SupahBoy> to download it
[22:16] <SupahBoy> x_x
[22:17] <Slonkie> hmm okay
[22:17] <SupahBoy> do i click where it says download types?
[22:19] <SupahBoy> will you give me a break i cant seem to find a download link
[22:20] <Slonkie> It seems to be a .exe
[22:21] <SupahBoy> you found it?
[22:21] <Slonkie> sorry I don't know how to get a linux driver for that graphics card
[22:21] <SupahBoy> oh
[22:21] <SupahBoy> what was the link you gave me?
[22:22] <Slonkie> You can download it here: but it's .exe: http://downloadcenter.intel.com/Filter_Results.aspx?strOSs=39&strTypes=all&ProductID=2886&OSFullName=Linux*&lang=eng&sType=prev
[22:51] <SiDi> Slonkie, did you try the SAME driver on your hardware before pointing it out ? ^_^
[22:51] <Slonkie> no
[22:51] <SiDi> you should let the person find someone who did then
[22:52] <SiDi> because if she has a problem she'll hold you for responsible
[22:52] <SiDi> i already got shout at for that :p
[22:52] <Slonkie> it was windows drivers anyway :(
[22:52] <SiDi> heh :)
[22:52] <SiDi> just be careful, its actually better to help someone find help than to directly help when we dont know what we do at all
[22:53] <SiDi> dont take offense of it btw ;)
[22:53] <SiDi> i appreciate that you dont leave people without help at all
[22:53] <cody-somerville> SiDi, What are you getting on about?
[22:54] <SiDi> Talking about giving download links to people without checking if what they download actually works :p
[22:54] <cody-somerville> meh
[22:55] <Slonkie> oh well, i'd say Intel's official site is pretty trustable
[23:23] <SupahBoy> Slonkie: sry sudden leave


[01:36] <NickZ> kyrofa: is there any documentation on the changes to the catkin plugin syntax when you specify a base core?
[01:57] <`dw> is there some way to get around the forum's "new users may only include (1 pictures|2 links)" restriction on the forum?
[02:45] <mup> PR snapd#6377 opened: tests: auto-clean the test directory <Created by sergiocazzolato> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6377>
[05:16] <kyrofa> NickZ, sorry, we're not timezone aligned this week at all! When you specify a base, the catkin plugin will use the ROS release that corresponds to it. core/core16 will use kinetic, core18 will use melodic
[05:16] <kyrofa> We've moved away from being able to specify the rosdistro so that we can ensure we're running the supported ROS distro on the supported ubuntu distro
[06:11] <mborzecki> morning
[06:11] <mvo> hey mborzecki !
[06:11] <mborzecki> mvo: hey hey
[06:12] <mborzecki> #6370 is finally green
[06:12] <mup> PR #6370: interfaces/builtin/opengl: allow access to NVIDIA VDPAU library <Created by cgutman> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6370>
[06:12] <mborzecki> mvo: can you take a look ^^ ?
[06:12] <mvo> mborzecki: I just have it open - the author has signed our CLA?
[06:13] <mborzecki> mvo: the cla check is green, hope that's the same as confirmation he's signed it :)
[06:14] <mvo> mborzecki: yeah, let me do a quick check
[06:15] <zyga> Good morning
[06:15] <mvo> mborzecki: yeah, looks good
[06:15] <mvo> hey zyga ! good morning
[06:15] <mborzecki> #6326 sound like 2.37 material too, jdstrand requested changes there, but it's fixed already
[06:15] <mup> PR #6326: interface: raw-usb: Adding ttyACM ttyACA permissions <Created by kubiko> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6326>
[06:15] <mborzecki> zyga: hey
[06:16] <zyga> how was yesterday?
[06:16] <zyga> I saw some failures on master
[06:21] <mvo> zyga: things are mostly ok
[06:21] <mvo> zyga: very few failures
[06:21] <mvo> zyga: afaict at least
[06:22] <mvo> mborzecki: I taged it 2.37 but will consider it a target of opportunity. I would really like to have the +1 from jdstrand on pr#6326 before merging it
[06:26] <zyga> mvo: that's good, must have been a fluke on one branch then
[08:02] <pstolowski> morning
[08:04] <mvo> hey pstolowski - good morning
[08:14] <mvo> mborzecki: meh, this configure hook with network-control forum topic is a bit of a can of worms, looks like we have a bug in snap-confine for hooks, the cgroup name is incorrect so no devices are part of the cgroup :/
[08:16] <pstolowski> oh, what's that?
[08:17] <mvo> pstolowski: there is this forum topic "stracing a configure hook"
[08:18] <mvo> pstolowski: and it points to a real bug it seems in snap-confine
[08:20] <pstolowski> interesting, thanks
[08:24] <mborzecki> mvo: which topic is that?
[08:24] <mborzecki> mvo: ah the strace topic
[08:24] <mvo> mborzecki: yeah, I think I'm close, its quite twisted though
[08:25] <mvo> mborzecki: anyway, just wanted to let you all know that I look into it (to avoid duplication of effort)
[08:26] <mborzecki> mvo: no worries, i was looking into https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/restart-a-snap-background-service-on-resume-from-suspend/9182/5, power mgmt can of worms
[08:28] <mborzecki> i don't understand why it's so convoluted
[08:29] <mvo> mborzecki: yeah :/
[08:29] <mvo> mborzecki: thanks for looking into this one
[08:33] <mborzecki> mvo: about cgroup, iirc we add a bunch of /dev/* by default
[08:33] <mborzecki> mvo: including /dev/null
[08:34] <mborzecki> mvo: https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/blob/master/cmd/snap-confine/udev-support.c#L168
[08:36] <mvo> mborzecki: yeah, its all good
[08:36] <mvo> mborzecki: I mean, its not :)
[08:36] <mvo> mborzecki: but the code is mostly DTRT, it seems there is a bug in the cgroup name generation
[08:37] <zyga> re
[08:37] <mvo> mborzecki: so we do DTRT just to the wrong cgroup (test-snapd-with-configure-nc_hook.hook_configure vs test-snapd-with-configure_nc_hook_configure
[08:37] <mvo> hey zyga
[08:38] <zyga> mmm
[08:38] <mborzecki> mvo: interesting
[08:38] <zyga> cgroup name for hooks
[08:38] <zyga> interesting
[08:38] <zyga> I'll let you handle that but one word of advice
[08:38] <zyga> device cgroups sticks around
[08:38] <mvo> zyga: :) ok
[08:38] <zyga> you can run something and then, at your leisure, look at it later
[08:38] <zyga> and you can move a shell there for full hands on
[08:39] <zyga> let me know if you need help with any of that
[09:31] <mborzecki> pstolowski: hi, can you take a look at https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6373 ?
[09:31] <mup> PR #6373: overlord/ifacestate: helper API to obtain the state of connections <Created by bboozzoo> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6373>
[09:34] <mborzecki> guys, if you have any thoughts about presenting disconnected plugs/slots or undesired connections in the output of snap connections, feel free to share them ehre https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/rfc-snap-connections-command/4296/12
[09:39] <Chipaca> mborzecki: o/
[09:39] <mborzecki> Chipaca: hey
[09:39] <Chipaca> mborzecki: I'll reply there
[09:39] <mborzecki> Chipaca: sure
[09:48] <mborzecki> pstolowski: yeah, maybe the endpoint should only return connections, connected or undesired, but no plugs/slots list like we get from /v2/interfaces
[09:50] <pstolowski> mborzecki: ah, going even further. might be a good idea
[09:52] <mup> PR snapd#6378 opened:  cmd: fix snap-device-helper to deal correctly with hooks  <Created by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6378>
[09:53] <Chipaca> mborzecki: there ya go
[09:53] <Chipaca> hah
[09:53] <mborzecki> Chipaca: thx, reading
[09:53] <Chipaca> pstolowski: agreed on -d :-)
[09:54] <Chipaca> woops typo
[09:54]  * Chipaca fixes
[09:54] <Chipaca> mborzecki: wrt my last comment, I can do that in a followup if you'd rather not bash your head against tabwriter and escape sequences :-)
[09:55] <mborzecki> Chipaca: tis fine, go ahead
[10:23] <mup> PR snapd#6379 opened: ifacestate/tests: extra test for hotplug-connect handler <Hotplug 🔌> <Created by stolowski> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6379>
[10:26] <Chipaca> degville: o/
[10:26] <degville> Chipaca: hello!
[10:27] <Chipaca> degville: PM
[10:33] <Chipaca> degville: should I create the topic for #6369, or would you rather do it? (if I do it it'll be a placeholder for now)
[10:33] <mup> PR #6369: Add check for snap binaries dir not being in path <Simple 😃> <Squash-merge> <Created by liamg> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6369>
[10:34] <degville> Chipaca: feel free to create the topic. I guess you'd want it to be as short as possible. I can always add the text.
[10:35] <Chipaca> degville: I'll leave it unlisted for now :-)
[11:26] <mup> PR snapcraft#2439 closed: snap: add xslt dependencies for lxml <Created by sergiusens> <Merged by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/2439>
[11:46] <mup> PR snapd#6380 opened: Nm iface add perms <Created by alfonsosanchezbeato> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6380>
[12:31] <mborzecki> Chipaca: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/VVNpnmJ6QY/
[12:31] <mborzecki> still have to add the count of disconnected/unconnected ifaces
[12:47] <pstolowski> hey marcustomlinson :)
[12:48] <marcustomlinson> hey pstolowski !
[13:02] <mborzecki> off to pick up the kids
[13:08] <pstolowski> mborzecki: can you take a look at https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6379 ?
[13:08] <mup> PR #6379: ifacestate/tests: extra test for hotplug-connect handler <Hotplug 🔌> <Created by stolowski> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6379>
[13:40] <Gargoyle> Hey all.
[13:41] <Gargoyle> Is there any fix for broken electron snaps on 18.10 yet. I now have no text in atom's menu bar! :/
[13:50] <Chipaca> Gargoyle: I wasn't aware they were broken :-)
[13:51] <Chipaca> let me start an 18.10 vm to have a look
[13:51] <Chipaca> Gargoyle: is there a bug or forum post talking about the issue?
[13:53] <Chipaca> Gargoyle: I have text in atom's menu bar here
[13:53] <Chipaca> Gargoyle: https://i.imgur.com/56r236E.png
[14:16] <Chipaca> mborzecki: Conflicts=sleep.target WFM AFAICT FWIW
[14:17] <Chipaca> but maybe I should test it a bit more :-)
[14:18] <mborzecki> Chipaca: interesting, i'll play a bit more with these on the laptop
[14:23] <jdstrand> mvo: hi! miss you in sunny cape town :)
[14:23] <jdstrand> mvo: it seems like you are looking into this, so fyi, https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/stracing-a-configure-hook/9452/7
[14:23] <jdstrand> mvo: also, I'll look at PR 6326 again
[14:23] <mup> PR #6326: interface: raw-usb: Adding ttyACM ttyACA permissions <Created by kubiko> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6326>
[14:26] <Chipaca> mborzecki: to be clear, Conflicts=sleep.target works to stop the service before suspending
[14:27] <Chipaca> mborzecki: you need something else to wake it after resuming
[14:27] <jdstrand> mvo: re 6326, just need a one character fix then feel free to commit
[14:28] <Chipaca> mborzecki: you'd think there'd be a resume.targt, but lennart says "Why would a service need something like this? This sounds systematically flawed"
[14:29] <mborzecki> Chipaca: hahah
[14:30] <mborzecki> Chipaca: hard to disagree with him
[14:30] <Chipaca> mborzecki: that's https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=744753#30 fwiw
[14:32] <mborzecki> Chipaca: on a side note, the use case from the forum should probably hook to nelink and act on interface state changes
[14:33]  * Chipaca covers his ears and goes LALALALA
[14:39] <zyga> https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6380
[14:39] <mup> PR #6380: Nm iface add perms <Created by alfonsosanchezbeato> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6380>
[14:39] <zyga> this is one terse commit message
[14:40] <zyga> I re-wrote the PR title
[14:42] <mvo> jdstrand: cool, will look at it
[14:43] <mvo> jdstrand: heh - I miss the sun as well! next time I can make it again. I am looking into the strace right now, I think I have a fix
[14:43] <mvo> jdstrand: not strace, the device cgroup with configure hook support
[14:58] <mborzecki> Chipaca: left a note in the forum, imo the guy should really be using avahi
[15:04] <mup> PR core18#114 opened: Set the C.UTF-8 locale for the 001-extra-packages.test <Created by sil2100> <https://github.com/snapcore/core18/pull/114>
[15:13] <mup> PR snapd#6381 opened: devicestate: add initial Remodel support <Created by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6381>
[15:14] <mborzecki> Chipaca: hm that interface count is quite interesting, the API actually does some filtering and returns only connected interfaces by default, unless the client asked for all
[15:23] <Chipaca> mborzecki: isn't this the api that you're adding in the same PR?
[15:24] <Chipaca> #6373
[15:24] <mup> PR #6373: overlord/ifacestate: helper API to obtain the state of connections <Created by bboozzoo> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6373>
[15:24] <Chipaca> ah no
[15:24]  * Chipaca looks more
[15:24] <Chipaca> #6333
[15:24] <mup> PR #6333: daemon: introduce /v2/connections snapd API endpoint <Created by bboozzoo> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6333>
[15:25] <mborzecki> Chipaca: not the same PR, but yes, that's the API i'm adding, that's why it's helpful to get some feedback on the functionality people expect
[15:25] <Chipaca> oh and it's 'changes requested' by me and I never looked again
[15:25] <Chipaca> I'm a horrible person
[15:25]  * Chipaca wanders off
[15:25] <mborzecki> haha :P
[15:25] <Chipaca> :-)
[15:26] <mborzecki> Chipaca: so the API actually takes ?select=all to include disconnect plugs/slots and undesired conections, otherwise it's just connected
[15:26] <mborzecki> i could push everything and filter in the client
[15:27] <Chipaca> mborzecki: or, add counts to the interfaceJSON (if I'm reading the code right)
[15:27] <mborzecki> Chipaca: hm some itneresting bits are still missing in that pr
[15:28] <Chipaca> mborzecki: how is gnome software going to use v2/connections?
[15:29] <mborzecki> Chipaca: that's what I discussed with pedronis but haven't pushed out yet: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/G4h3q4n2Zz/
[15:30] <Chipaca> aha
[15:31] <mborzecki> Chipaca: Established is what's currently connected, so one does not have to dig inside Plugs/Slots, Undesired is what's manually disconnected
[15:33] <Chipaca> mborzecki: what about things that aren't undesired and aren't connected?
[15:33] <Chipaca> i mean established
[15:33] <Chipaca> i mean: established means connected right now, undesired means manually disconnected?
[15:34] <mborzecki> Chipaca: yes, established [15:34] <Chipaca> mborzecki: so what about the other ones?
[15:35] <Chipaca> where do they appear?
[15:37] <mborzecki> Chipaca: that's where you dig into Plugs/Slots
[15:37] <mborzecki> Chipaca: iow, pairs that could be connected, but aren't right?
[15:37] <Chipaca> yeah
[15:38] <mborzecki> Chipaca: yup, so that's in Plugs/Slots, unconnected ones have len(Plug.Connections) == 0
[15:38] <mborzecki> Chipaca: but there is no indication what given plug/slot could be connected to
[15:39] <mvo> fun! core18 fails to boot in spread :( spread qemu:ubuntu-core-18-64
[15:40] <mborzecki> Chipaca: to be fair, you could connnect any pair that uses matching interface
[15:41] <Chipaca> mvo: excessive collisions & not enough packet ambulances ?
[15:41] <Chipaca> mborzecki: I'm never fair
[15:41] <mborzecki> hah :)
[15:44] <mvo> mounting /dev/sda3 on /tmpmnt_writable failed: device or resource busy
[15:47] <mvo> cachio: ^- could you please have a look? maybe a new kernel or a new core18 that breaks this
[15:47] <mvo> cachio: I need to leave for ~2h for a kids appointment unfortunately so can't look right now
[16:20] <cachio> mvo, in 10 minutes after lunch :)
[16:21] <cachio> mvo, Ill leave the tests running
[17:02] <mup> PR snapd#6377 closed: tests: auto-clean the test directory <Created by sergiocazzolato> <Merged by sergiocazzolato> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6377>
[17:58] <mup> PR snapd#6382 opened: tests: use pc-kernel from stable instead of edge to build core-16 and core-18 <Created by sergiocazzolato> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6382>
[18:21] <Chipaca> ouch, EOD
[18:21]  * Chipaca runs
[18:49] <cachio> mvo, hey
[18:50] <cachio> mvo, same issue I see when I start a core-18 vm locally
[18:50] <cachio> related to lack of entropy
[18:51] <cachio> we are currently faking the entropy source on google instnaces, perhaps we could do the same on this core instance before booting it
[19:01] <mvo> cachio: I was getting a busybox shell when running spread on ubuntu-core-18 here locally
[19:02] <mvo> cachio: you can run SPREAD_QEMU_GUI=1 spread ...
[19:02] <mvo> cachio: and then you get the qemu window and can get around the entropy problem
[19:03] <mvo> cachio: and thanks for looking into it! if reverting to the stable kernel fixes all issues we should probably let the kernel guys know :)
[19:09] <cachio> mvo, it fixes the problem
[19:10] <cachio> but now I see other issues becuase it refreshes the kernel snap
[19:10] <cachio> during the execution
[19:12] <cachio> mvo, I'll need to omve the IMAGE_CHANNEL to stable too
[19:12] <cachio> mvo, not sure if it if gonna work
[19:21] <mup> PR core18#114 closed: Set the C.UTF-8 locale for the 001-extra-packages.test <Created by sil2100> <Merged by sil2100> <https://github.com/snapcore/core18/pull/114>
[19:34] <mvo> cachio: ok
[19:34] <mvo> cachio: not sure what is going on, please keep me updated! I can start digging into that in my morning
[19:35] <cachio> using the image and gadget snap = stable it wokrs
[19:38] <cachio> it is a workaround until the issue is fixed
[19:38] <mvo> cachio: yeah, interessting!
[19:38] <cachio> there is a PR with thnat changge
[19:38] <mvo> cachio: I wonder if we can figure out what happend, i.e. what the root cause is
[19:39] <cachio> well, the pc-kernel snap has changed
[19:39] <cachio> from edge to candidate
[19:40] <cachio> no idea yet which change on the kernel is producing the error
[19:40] <cachio> still researching
[19:42] <mvo> cachio: thank you
[19:44] <mvo> cachio: interessting, there was a new pc-kernel upload 8h ago and a new one 2h ago
[19:45] <mvo> cachio: maybe that helped with things?
[19:45] <mvo> klebers: hey, I saw two kernel uploads recently. one 8h ago and one 2h ago. are there any known issues in the prev kernel or just an update?
[20:18] <mvo> cachio: do we have all must-have 2.37 PR (that fix the tests etc) tagged in github?
[20:23] <cachio> I think there are nice to have
[20:23] <cachio> mvo,
[20:24] <cachio> It is not needed to add them to 2.37
[20:24] <mvo> cachio: great, thanks
[20:25] <cachio> mvo, yaw
[20:26] <mvo> cachio: I go over the PRs in the morning, I hope we can finalize 2.37 then
[20:29] <cachio> mvo, great
[20:29] <cachio> I'll check the status tomorrow morning
[20:29] <cachio> thanks!!
[21:46] <mup> PR snapd#6383 opened: tests: provide a fake random device to the core images <Created by sergiocazzolato> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6383>
[22:12] <kravietz> hi everyone, I build a snap with PhantomJS that works well in  classic mode, but when in full confinement it cannot load libfreetype and libfontconfig libraries, even though they are packaged (in $SNAP/usr/lib...)
[22:14] <kravietz> I'm a bit confused - from where the confined binary should load the libraries? from system-wide /lib & /usr/lib or the $SNAP/lib $SNAP/usr/lib ? in such case why cannot it see them by default?
[22:15] <kravietz> LD_LIBRARY_PATH="/snap/webcookies/x23/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu" seems to help but why isn't it set by default if libraries are snapped?
[22:47] <Gargoyle> In answer to my own question from earlier - In synaptic you can select a package and choose "lock version". So I was able to pick my way through and change from PPA version to official cosmic version.
[22:59] <Gargoyle> Chipaca: https://i.imgur.com/YVeUqls.png


[00:01] <borix> yep, that's exactly what I was looking for
[23:30] <johnc4510> The new edition of the Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter is now available:
[23:30] <johnc4510> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue178


[00:27] <jelmer> mwhudson: current bzr-git doesn't have a problem with that branch
[00:29] <mwhudson> jelmer: cool
[00:55] <mwhudson> jelmer: have you released bzr-git yet?
[00:59] <jelmer> mwhudson: yeah, 0.4.0
[01:05] <mwhudson> does that have all the relevant fixes in?
[01:05] <jelmer> yeah
[01:05] <mwhudson> cool
[01:53] <abentley> spiv: around?
[02:13] <spiv> abentley: not really...
[03:00] <jrwren> can I ask bzr ls for find -ls style output?
[03:13] <AfC> jrwren:
[03:13] <AfC> $ bzr ls -R | ls -ld
[04:01] <johnf> LarstiQ: do you have time to package latest version of bzr-svn?
[07:16] <mwhudson> johnf: will 1.16 be in the ~bzr ppa soon?
[07:29] <johnf> mwhudson: need to wait on bzr-svn before I can copy it across. I'll make a start on it later on tonight if I don't hear frm LarstiQ. It's in ~bzr-beta-ppa now if you're keen
[07:30] <mwhudson> johnf: ah, cool
[09:45] <hsn_> i am using python based windows install. If i run bzr info, python complains about missing zlib1.dll
[09:45] <Peng_> Oogh. What version?
[09:46] <hsn_> 1.16
[09:48] <Peng_> There have been problems (and changes) with zlib on Windows. I dunno anything, though.
[09:49] <hsn_> it probably needs to be added to list of libraries needed to run bzr
[09:50] <Peng_> zlib is a little complicated.
[09:50] <hsn_> but why you are not using zlib python module? it works
[09:50] <Peng_> Or, yeah, the installer might just be missing it completely or something.
[09:51] <Peng_> hsn_: This is from C, not Python.
[09:51] <Peng_> hsn_: They investigated using Python's copy of zlib, but it's not possible.
[09:54] <lifeless> hsn_: we do use the python zlib module; the C groupcompress extension however is much faster by using zlib directly from C
[09:55] <lifeless> hsn_: so you need to install zlib1.dll from the zlib site :)
[09:56] <hsn_> it can not be added to installer?
[09:56] <lifeless> it is I think; you're using the python install method though
[09:56] <lifeless> and python statically links zlib
[09:56] <lifeless> or something like that
[09:57] <Peng_> Oh, you need to install zlib yourself now?
[09:57] <hsn_> i will update wiki then
[09:58] <hsn_> it seems to work without zlib just fine, except you must press 'enter' on every popup message box
[10:01] <Peng_> C zlib is only used if you're using the development6-rich-root or 2a repo formats, so you probably won't actually run into it.
[10:06] <hsn_> oh man, you updated wiki, it have different syntax now
[10:10] <lifeless> hsn_: its still moin
[10:10] <lifeless> hsn_: just uses ReST rather than wiki-specific syntax
[10:22] <hsn_> ReST is probably worst markup language ever made
[10:23] <Peng_> Is there a LOLMARKUP?
[10:23] <lifeless> Peng_: you could make one, based on intercal?
[10:24] <Peng_> Heh, nice.
[10:35] <hsn_> how to write backslash in ReST?
[10:35] <lifeless> \ ?
[10:36] <hsn_>  '\?' doesnt work
[10:37] <hsn_> it renders to '?'
[10:37] <lifeless> try \\
[10:37] <lifeless> if you're writing a path, you might want ``c:\\foo\\bar``
[10:39] <hsn_> done.
[10:46] <lifeless> hsn_: is 1.16 working better for you now?
[10:47] <garyvdm> Hi lifeless
[10:47] <lifeless> hi garyvdm
[10:47] <garyvdm> lifeless: Tree._comparison_data - How come it is _private?
[10:48] <lifeless> its not meant to be called by code outside the implementation of Tree
[10:48] <hsn_> lifeless: no, but at least it doesnt complains about missing zlib1.dll
[10:49] <garyvdm> lifeless: It would be nice if there was a Tree.is_executable(path) method.
[10:49] <lifeless> garyvdm: you can of course, but its not fixed as an api and we're allowed to change it as desired
[10:50] <lifeless> garyvdm: you could make one
[10:51] <garyvdm> ok
[10:53] <lifeless> note that it may be faster to call iter_changes() and use the tree.basis_tree() to get data
[10:54] <lifeless> iter_changes is _the_ optimised code path for getting data from the tree
[11:00] <garyvdm> lifeless: I'm making my control walk through a unversioned directory
[11:00] <garyvdm> I don't know how to get iter_changes to do that.
[11:01] <lifeless> oh, it won't
[11:01] <lifeless> for that you'd need walkdirs
[11:01] <lifeless> which is a component of iter_changes, and also highly optimised
[11:01] <hsn_> http://pastebin.ca/1467426 - it seems that some windows related issues are still not fixed in 1.16. Last working version for me is 1.9
[11:01] <lifeless> it has enough data to answer 'executable', at least on linux
[11:02] <lifeless> hsn_: there is a guy working on the exception printing stuff
[11:02] <lifeless> he was discussing it on the list yesterday
[12:18] <aboSamoor> Hi, I am using launchpad with bzr and I had problem to understand the version numbers. For example, I have this version number 65.1.3 ? What does it mean ?
[12:22] <lifeless> it means that that revision is the third revision on a branch made from rev 65
[12:26] <aboSamoor> lifeless: I am using my laptop and desktop to commit changes to my branch, I get confused with merge and branches, what do you suggest the best practice/workflow to follow ?
[12:27] <lifeless> what is confusing
[12:27] <aboSamoor> lifeless: I am new to the idea of control version systems
[12:28] <lifeless> simple workflow then is:
[12:28] <lifeless> at site A) work work work, commit, push
[12:28] <lifeless> at site B) 'bzr pull'. work work work, commit, push
[12:29] <lifeless> as its just you, you can't be in two places at once, so you have no need to be merging.
[12:29] <lifeless> going back to A), 'bzr pull', work work work, commit, push
[12:29] <lifeless> rinse and repeat
[12:30] <aboSamoor> at site B I usually do bzr update, what if I have local changes on B that they are not commited yet, do bzr pull overwrite them ?
[12:32] <lifeless> pull won't overwrite
[12:32] <lifeless> it merges in
[12:32] <aboSamoor> lifeless: perfect :)
[12:32] <lifeless> update won't do much unless you made your local workspace by doing 'bzr checkout'
[12:32] <lifeless> if you did, then you should use update rather than pull, and not run 'push'
[12:35] <aboSamoor> lifeless: usually I start my workspace by bzr branch
[12:36] <lifeless> then my first answer was appropriat
[12:37] <aboSamoor> lifeless: what is the difference between branch and checkout ?
[12:37] <lifeless> branch mamkes a new branch, checkout only lets you edit an existing branch
[13:13] <Nafallo> so. when will 1.16 be available in the PPAs? :-)
[13:14] <Nafallo> even the nightly's seem to have 1.15 right now.
[13:15] <mwhudson> Nafallo: 1.16 is in the ~bzr-beta-ppa
[13:15] <mwhudson> apparently, the bzr ppa is waiting on a 1.16 compatible packaging of bzr-svn
[13:16] <Nafallo> ah. so it isn't then...
[13:16] <glyph> Hello... people
[13:16] <glyph> what's the name for bzr users anyway
[13:16] <glyph> bizarros?
[13:16] <glyph> So, I've noticed a periodic problem as I've been introducing people to bzr and launchpad
[13:16] <Nafallo> oh. never mind me.
[13:17] <Nafallo> 9 hours ago... :-)
[13:17] <glyph> inevitably, the first couple of checkins they do will end up having the wrong 'id', they'll forget to do 'bzr whoami' until it shows up on an lp page and doesn't link to their profile
[13:17] <Nafallo> mwhudson: thanks
[13:17] <glyph> non-bzr users tend to get it wrong for longer
[13:17] <glyph> erm
[13:17] <glyph> non-lp bzr users get it wrong for longer, I mean
[13:17] <glyph> Is it reasonable to fix your user-ID in old revisions?
[13:18] <glyph> if so, how do you do it?
[13:18] <mwhudson> sadly no, not really
[13:18] <lifeless> if they haven't been pushed, its reasonable
[13:18] <lifeless> fast-export, uncommit, fast-import
[13:19] <glyph> lifeless: yeah, but what if they have been pushed? :)
[13:19] <lifeless> if they've been pushed then other people may already be depending on their revisions
[13:19] <glyph> it would be really neat
[13:19] <glyph> to have revisions which were updates to other revisions :)
[13:20] <lifeless> you can do that
[13:20] <glyph> so you could have very explicit "im in ur revision graph, fixin ur changelogs"
[13:20] <lifeless> branch from the first rev
[13:20] <lifeless> commit a no-text change new commit message
[13:20] <lifeless> merge the second commit, and whenc ommitting do the same thing
[13:20] <lifeless> etc
[13:21] <glyph> lifeless: dang
[13:21] <glyph> lifeless: If anybody has conflicts, isn't that going to be a terrifying mess to resolve?
[13:21] <lifeless> no, why would it be?
[13:21]  * glyph thinks
[13:21] <glyph> I guess it wouldn't, at that.
[13:21] <glyph> lifeless: how does one branch from a particular revision?
[13:22] <lifeless> branch -r revspec
[13:22] <glyph> oh, of course.
[13:22] <glyph> if you can diff -r why wouldn't you be able to branch -r
[16:16] <Adys> hi all. I need to include the bzr version in one of my pages in my project. All I can find is this extension: https://code.launchpad.net/~ian-clatworthy/bzr-keywords/trunk
[16:16] <Adys> and its kinda out of date and undocumented. any better solution?
[16:56] <ddaa> the latest branch format advertises support for content modification (that is, newline conversion and keyword substitution)
[16:56] <ddaa> oops, he's gone
[22:09] <RenatoSilva> Is there any shortcut for http transport?
[22:09] <RenatoSilva> a shortcut for http://bazaar.launchpad.net I mean
[22:20] <beuno> RenatoSilva, lp:...
[22:20] <RenatoSilva> that's for bzr+ssh
[22:21] <Peng_> It uses http if you're not logged in.
[22:21] <Peng_> ...Why do you want http, anyway?
[22:21] <RenatoSilva> but there's no bzr logout yet :)
[22:22] <RenatoSilva> Peng_: for not having to open pageant
[22:22] <RenatoSilva> Peng_: for branching, pulling etc
[23:27] <RenatoSilva> Does Loggerhead have permalinks?
[23:27] <RenatoSilva> sorry, this is for #launchpad
[23:44] <lifeless> RenatoSilva: bzr+ssh is faster than http for branching and pulling
[23:47] <Peng_> lifeless: Perhaps not if pageant is really slow.