[00:02] <rick_h_> Makyo: yay video
[00:02] <rick_h_> looking cool
[00:03] <rick_h_> Makyo: do we have an account to upload the videos to?
[00:04]  * rick_h_ looks and notices it's the normal account
[00:04] <rick_h_> Makyo: ok cool, I'll check with the marketing and eco teams if there's a good 'juju home' we should get stuff towards.
[00:04] <Makyo> rick_h_, I've been uploading them to my account and then passing the link on.  I think there's a canonical account, though, can forward the video to...someone...?  I don't know
[00:04] <Makyo> Yeah, sounds good.
[00:05] <rick_h_> now we just need hatch to do the blog post matching something like that, get the ghost folks excited about it :) and almost there
[00:06] <Makyo> I'll have the de-chirped version up in a few.
[00:06] <hatch> yeah I was thinking of releasing the post next week
[00:07] <rick_h_> hatch: well wait until thurs
[00:07] <rick_h_> hatch: really that's the wait for all of this
[00:07] <hatch> ok sounds good, lots of time
[00:07] <rick_h_> :P
[00:07] <rick_h_> procrastinator
[00:07] <rick_h_> though Makyo's video brought out one more bug to file :/
[00:08] <rick_h_> hmm, though maybe not I guess, Makyo you used the flag to override the settings?
[00:08] <rick_h_> yep, see it in the url. Ok, no new bug yay!
[00:14] <Makyo> rick_h_, yep
[00:14] <Makyo> rick_h_, only thing I found was the X on the cookie warning didn't show up on this laptop.
[00:14] <Makyo> Will try and repro
[00:15] <rick_h_> Makyo: k
[00:15] <rick_h_> I assumed it was hidden behind the onboarding or something
[00:15] <rick_h_> but didn't look too close
[00:15] <Makyo> Oh, good point
[00:38] <Makyo> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEiwKLfzlX8 Updated video without the chirp
[00:39] <rick_h_> woot
[00:39] <rick_h_> Makyo: can you send that out to peeps plese?
[00:39] <rick_h_> please
[00:39] <Makyo> Sure fing
[00:39] <rick_h_> Makyo: and we'll work on pulling together out content and that way we've got a url down somewhere to remember
[00:42] <Makyo> rick_h_, sounds good.  Can forward the mp4 to anyone in marketing who needs it, too, if it belongs on another account
[00:42] <rick_h_> Makyo: rgr, thanks. We probably won't know more about that until Sally gets back Monday
[00:43] <Makyo> YEp, sounds good
[01:22] <huwshimi> I can't figure out good way to do sorting.
[01:22] <rick_h_> huwshimi: the 0 padding doesn't help?
[01:23] <huwshimi> rick_h_: Oh, I actually don't know what that is :)
[01:24] <rick_h_> huwshimi: oh, that's what frankban was saying
[01:24] <rick_h_> he was suggesting that if the thing was 10new
[01:24] <rick_h_> and you had 1
[01:24] <rick_h_> that if you padded it 01 and 10 they'd sort correctly
[01:25] <rick_h_> so basically full in things with 0's so that they're similar and will sort as strings
[01:25] <rick_h_> so machine 0 turns into 00000 I guess.
[01:26]  * rick_h_ loads pr to look at frankban's comments again
[01:26] <huwshimi> rick_h_: Actually that gives me another idea, we could just add 1 to all ints, the numbers will still sort correctly and zero will become 1 so it will be truthy when compared against strings
[01:27] <rick_h_> huwshimi: right, but overall if things are just always strings, and you prefix the names with 0000's then they'll sort correct, even things like 12 vs 13new
[01:28] <rick_h_> huwshimi: try both and see what 'works' to the eye test and we can go from there
[01:28] <huwshimi> oh I see what you mean now :)
[01:29] <rick_h_> huwshimi: so the longest one in the previous example was 5 characters long, so if we did '00000' + 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 they'd sort with 'new10' just fine
[01:29] <rick_h_> well, I guess that's four zeros needed to make them all 5 long, /me wonders if we even need to add more than one 0, or just add '0' + name
[01:29] <rick_h_> to get a string out of it
[01:30] <huwshimi> rick_h_: I guess we don't know how long a number someone might use though
[01:30] <rick_h_> huwshimi: right, but even if they use<PHONE_NUMBER>3543543 and we add a 0 to 1, 2, 3, we'd be sorting '01', '02', '03', and '012334...'
[01:31] <rick_h_> huwshimi: ah right, so we'd need to use as many 0's as missing from the longest string
[01:31] <huwshimi> yeah
[01:31] <rick_h_> because otherwise we'd still have issues
[01:31] <huwshimi> yep
[01:31] <rick_h_> right, so we'd have to find the len of the longest one, and then do a longest-len(name) * '0' + name
[01:31] <rick_h_> well in python, have to convert that to JS
[01:44] <huwshimi> rick_h_: Actually the issue might not just be about zeros. It occurs if I add machines in this way too:
[01:44] <huwshimi> app.db.machines.add([{id: '3'}, {id: 'new3'}, {id: '10'}, {id: '10'}, {id: '2'}, {id: 'new1'}, {id: 'new11'}, {id: 'new42'}, {id: '1'}, {id: 'new21'}]);
[01:45] <huwshimi> something about the lowest number being after two strings?
[01:46] <rick_h_> huwshimi: right, so you need to update everything to be 5 chars long
[01:46] <rick_h_> so you need to make it
[01:47] <rick_h_> '00003', '0new3', '00010', '00010', '00002', '0new1', 'new42', '00001', '0new21'
[01:47] <rick_h_> and those should all sort properly
[01:48] <huwshimi> ouch
[01:48] <rick_h_> it's not as bad as it seems
[01:49] <huwshimi> rick_h_: It is because I need to figure out how to loop through everything and store the highest value inside the model comparator method :)
[01:49] <rick_h_> huwshimi: if it's heading off into the weeds for you feel free to put the card back with your branch and we can update it
[01:50] <rick_h_> huwshimi: yea, and it'll have to be updated as new machines come into play, so it really needs to be done at the time of the sort button being pressed
[01:50] <rick_h_> and can't be done ahead of time
[01:50] <huwshimi> yep
[01:57] <huwshimi> rick_h_: Can we actually have custom names at the moment?
[01:58] <huwshimi> If not then users can't currently add machines with names out of order
[01:58] <huwshimi> I'm just thinking I could land this as is with a follow up card to add the zero padding.
[02:00] <hatch> evening all
[02:43] <rick_h_> huwshimi: no, not yet. It's on the todo with some other stuff
[02:43] <rick_h_> huwshimi: but we have the issue of the sorting with 1 and 13 currently?
[02:43] <rick_h_> huwshimi: but yea, just want to make sure we have things 'working' and the 0 was the issue atm
[02:44] <huwshimi> rick_h_: Is that the issue with new1 and new13?
[02:44] <rick_h_> not really, those can go at the end and that's not an issue as they'll come back with real numbers once comitted
[02:45] <huwshimi> That's true
[02:45] <rick_h_> 0 and the 1 and 13 are the two issues currently
[02:45] <huwshimi> I'm not sure what the 1 and 13 issue is...
[02:46] <rick_h_> huwshimi: call?
[02:46] <huwshimi> sure!
[02:46] <rick_h_> standup url?
[02:46] <rick_h_> evening hatch
[02:46] <huwshimi> rick_h_: What's the standup url?
[02:47] <rick_h_> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/canonical.com/daily-standup?authuser=1
[02:47] <huwshimi> thanks!
[02:47] <rick_h_> adjust the authuser to your accounts
[08:04] <rogpeppe1> mornin' all
[08:13] <urulama> morning rogpeppe1
[08:13] <rogpeppe1> urulama: yo!
[08:14]  * urulama puts on a big golden chain, big hat ... sends yo back :D
[10:58] <rick_h_> morning everyone
[10:59] <urulama> rick_h_: fabrice will play with MV, he has dev gui up and running ... what's the link to the MV?
[11:00] <rick_h_> urulama: /:flags:/mv
[11:00] <urulama> fabrice: ^
[11:01] <urulama> ty, rick_h_
[11:02] <fabrice> morning
[11:02] <fabrice> what's the url to get to mv ?
[11:03] <fabrice> I should read before typing :)
[11:03] <fabrice> rick_h_: thanks
[11:03] <fabrice> in fact time for a break
[11:46] <rbasak> rick_h_: o/
[11:46] <rbasak> I'm just catching up on landing Juju etc. in Trusty for 1.18.4. It's in -proposed, as is juju-quickstart.
[11:46] <rick_h_> rbasak: what's up? otp atm
[11:47] <rbasak> The pending bugs for juju-quickstart are https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-quickstart/+bug/1309678 and https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1306537.
[11:47] <mup> Bug #1309678: a value is required for the control bucket field <verification-needed> <juju-quickstart:Fix Released by bac> <juju-quickstart (Ubuntu):Fix Released> <juju-quickstart (Ubuntu Trusty):Fix Committed> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1309678>
[11:47] <mup> Bug #1306537: LXC local provider fails to provision precise instances from a trusty host <deploy> <local-provider> <lxc> <verification-needed> <juju-core:Fix Released by wallyworld> <juju-core 1.18:Fix Released by wallyworld> <juju-quickstart:Fix Released by frankban> <juju-quickstart (Ubuntu):Fix
[11:47] <mup> Released> <juju-quickstart (Ubuntu Trusty):Fix Committed> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1306537>
[11:49] <rick_h_> rbasak: looking
[11:49] <rbasak> rick_h_: sorry I got distracted.
[11:50] <rick_h_> rbasak: so this is for utopic vs trusty?
[11:50] <rbasak> So we just need to check that the package in -proposed does fix these two bugs, and comment to explain the testing and mark verification-done. This is for Trusty.
[11:50] <rbasak> I have a 1.18.4 in trusty-proposed now (probably didn't before).
[11:50] <rick_h_> rbasak: ok, I'll see if we can get these tested out.
[11:50] <rbasak> I just verified that basic functionality works with -proposed enabled.
[11:50] <rick_h_> urulama: do you think jrwren_ has the bandwidth to look at verifying the two bugs today? ^
[11:51] <rick_h_> rbasak: rgr, will get someone on it
[11:51] <rbasak> rick_h_: thanks! I'm also going to look at the Juju bugs today, and hopefully we can get the update landed in Trusty very soon.
[11:51] <rbasak> I'm sorry this is so late. I got distracted by feature freeze issues for Utopic, and also have had to be away for a while.
[11:53] <rick_h_> rbasak: rgr, will get it done today
[11:54] <urulama> jrwren_: when you join, ping rick_h_ for quickstart issues, please
[12:02] <rick_h_> frankban: running a couple of min late
[12:02] <frankban> rick_h_: np
[12:31]  * frankban lunches
[12:31]  * rick_h_ goes to find breakfast now that morning calls are through
[12:47] <fabrice> I have some question about mv views
[12:47] <fabrice> Is there a remove unit ?
[12:48] <rick_h_> fabrice: yes, you have to click onto the machine
[12:48] <rick_h_> fabrice: and then the units are listed out in the container column on the right
[12:48] <rick_h_> fabrice: and you can hover over the units and get a 'more menu' with a destroy
[12:49] <fabrice> kool the hover menu !
[12:49] <fabrice> I have found a bug I think also
[12:49] <fabrice> 2 in facts
[12:51] <fabrice> one question more : change log do not indicate on which machine a unit will be placed
[12:51] <fabrice> is that voluntary ?
[12:52] <rick_h_> fabrice: yes, though it's a design/idea I've questioned as well
[12:53] <rick_h_> fabrice: the goal is to get some feedback. The idea is that it's showing things that are more important/direct to the environment and pocketbook (adding a new machine costs $$)
[12:53] <rick_h_> fabrice: and it's a bit less busy
[12:54] <fabrice> I found 3 bugs so I will play with launchpad now
[12:55] <rick_h_> fabrice: rgr make sure to check the kanban board (or I guess launchpad works) to make sure they're new vs existing ones
[12:55] <fabrice> rick_h_: good suggestions :)
[13:29] <jcsackett> jujugui: can i get two reviews and qa on https://github.com/juju/juju-gui/pull/564 please?
[13:30] <kadams54> jcsackett: taking a look
[13:30] <jcsackett> thanks, kadams54.
[13:35] <jcsackett> rick_h_: i'm reviewing/qa-ing huw's service icon delete branch, and i'm a little confused. he's setting the service blocks in service view to blue border on delete, as when they're uncommitted deploys. is that really what we want to do?
[13:35] <jcsackett> s/delete/destroy
[13:36] <rick_h_> jcsackett: I asked about that. I asked him to check the designs for any note on if we have feedback on how to show that.
[13:36] <rick_h_> jcsackett: /me looks at the branch to see if he calls any of that out
[13:36] <jcsackett> rick_h_: there's no indication of design docs, and i'm not seeing anything that looks like this.
[13:36] <rick_h_> jcsackett: rgr looking
[13:37] <rick_h_> luca...how dare you not be in my irc channel when I want to ping you
[13:37] <rick_h_> jcsackett: yea, I'm not a fan of that. I think this might be huw's best path to do *something* but not sure without asking
[13:37] <rick_h_> jcsackett: I think we need to push up to UX on this.
[13:38] <rick_h_> jcsackett: ah, but I did mention to look at how we show a remove relation and that's how it's done
[13:38] <jcsackett> rick_h_: ok, i'll note as much in my qa notes and avoid stamping qa ok for now, and we'll harass luca when he's around.
[13:38] <jcsackett> rick_h_: oh, really?
[13:38] <rick_h_> jcsackett: I think this can go forward but we need to bring the inconsistancy up with design.
[13:39] <rick_h_> jcsackett: in a relation, an uncommitted relation is a grey line
[13:39] <rick_h_> but a removing one is a blue line with blue circle
[13:39] <kadams54> rick_h_: FYI, I checked all the destroy cards (all have my face on them) and they all seem to be local env only. That is, I couldn't replicate in EC2.
[13:39] <jcsackett> rick_h_: so maybe we move away from blue border for services.
[13:39] <rick_h_> kadams54: awesome, is there any hint as to the issue?
[13:39] <rick_h_> jcsackett: that seems like a big change to do :/
[13:39] <jcsackett> ok, i'll qa ok the branch and then email to bring up design discussion.
[13:39] <rick_h_> jcsackett: as far as general idea
[13:40] <jcsackett> rick_h_: right, i'm not advocating. :p
[13:40] <rick_h_> jcsackett: yea, let's go ahead and qa/land as is and hopefully there's a small follow up to tweak
[13:40] <rick_h_> based on design feedback
[13:41] <kadams54> rick_h_: It seems fairly likely that it's a problem in fakebackend.js or sandbox.js, but I've been striking out with everything I've looked at so far. None of the places where we explicitly call "db.machines.remove" are being invoked.
[13:42] <rick_h_> kadams54: rgr, ok mark them as low and we'll try to move the other stuff blocking release more first
[13:42] <rick_h_> kadams54: and take a look at the removal stuff as it'll show on jujucharms.com when we update it
[13:46] <rick_h_> kadams54: are you able to look at the 'saving configuration setting creates white box' issue next?
[13:46] <kadams54> rick_h_: sure
[13:52] <kadams54> jcsackett: https://github.com/juju/juju-gui/pull/564 looks good
[13:53] <lazyPower> rick_h_: wait... I have access to work with charm-admin? O_O
[13:56] <jcsackett> kadams54: thanks.
[13:59] <lazyPower> rick_h_: when you get about 5 that you can spare for me, ping me please.
[14:01] <rick_h_> lazyPower: what's up?
[14:01] <rick_h_> lazyPower: I've got 29min to spare atm
[14:01] <fabrice> rick_h_: I added comments in the bug you marked as incomplete
[14:02] <lazyPower> Hey, the email from 10 days ago is referrencing a tool I cant access - charm-admin.  I thought the process was to file an rt-ticket, did I misunderstand?
[14:02] <rick_h_> fabrice: ty, appreciate the QA, just will bug for more detailed bug filings to help those that follow afterwards
[14:02] <lazyPower> and wait, i've just earned my black belt in no-context-fu again
[14:02] <rick_h_> charm-admin, oh the script on the IS thing
[14:02] <lazyPower> woo and you get a gold star for picking up on my no-context clues
[14:02] <rick_h_> lazyPower: ok, so we don't have access to it, we need IS to run that on the machine running the charmstore
[14:02] <rick_h_> lazyPower: thus the RT
[14:02] <fabrice> rick_h_: hope the 2other one are filled with enough details
[14:03] <rick_h_> lazyPower: once that is done, we DO have access to remove from charmworld, as ~charmers can login and hit the button on there
[14:03] <lazyPower> ok I thought the RT was the appropriate move forward. I received an email from a community member wanting removal of their personal namespace charm as well - so we have 2 items in teh queue for removal.
[14:03] <rick_h_> lazyPower: rgr
[14:03] <lazyPower> when i went back to look for the instructions, i saw the charm-admin command and insta-confused myself
[14:03]  * lazyPower doffs hat
[14:03] <lazyPower> you are a gentleman and a scholar
[14:03] <rick_h_> lazyPower: with the new charmstore stuff we'll have control of that so it'll get better
[14:04] <lazyPower> no worries, I just wanted to make sure i'm not opening tickets and waiting for nothing.
[14:06] <lazyPower> rick_h_: is it a problem if i CC you on the RT tickets, so when they are removed you get notice to nuke them from charmworld?
[14:06] <rick_h_> lazyPower: no prob at all
[14:06] <lazyPower> ta
[14:20] <fabrice> I have a question the OS is not indicated (precise or trusty) in machine view, was it discussed already ?
[14:21] <rick_h_> fabrice: yes, I think there's a bug about that. The series isn't labeled because UX-wise it's normaally just repeat info across the machines
[14:21] <rick_h_> fabrice: but there are times it's useful, there was talk of adding it and show/hiding via the more menu but it's something we've not decided
[14:24] <fabrice> It would be kool to have Network + Machine in a canvas view
[14:25] <fabrice> horizon display network like that for example
[14:25] <fabrice> http://www.sebastien-han.fr/images/horizon-network-topology.jpg
[14:25] <rick_h_> fabrice: :) as juju supports various network ideas you can be sure we'll be thinking about showing network info
[14:26] <rick_h_> one might even say there should be a 'network view' to go with the 'service view' and 'machine view'
[14:36] <fabrice> rick_h_: Added a comment for https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-gui/+bug/1371127
[14:36] <mup> Bug #1371127: Able to commit a unit added to a machine without choosing the subcontainer <juju-gui:Invalid> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1371127>
[14:37] <fabrice> rick_h_: I think this is an issue
[14:37] <rick_h_> fabrice: rgr ty
[14:39] <jrwren_> rick_h_: do you know anything more about https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1306537  I do not know how to get precise to be used at all.
[14:39] <mup> Bug #1306537: LXC local provider fails to provision precise instances from a trusty host <deploy> <local-provider> <lxc> <verification-needed> <juju-core:Fix Released by wallyworld> <juju-core 1.18:Fix Released by wallyworld> <juju-quickstart:Fix Released by frankban> <juju-quickstart (Ubuntu):Fix
[14:39] <mup> Released> <juju-quickstart (Ubuntu Trusty):Fix Committed> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1306537>
[14:39] <rick_h_> jrwren_: deploy a precise charm?
[14:39] <hatch> that works here
[14:39] <hatch> I do it all the time
[14:40] <jrwren_> rick_h_: juju-gui used to be a precise charm and is now a trusty charm?
[14:40] <rick_h_> jrwren_: yes, it has both
[14:40] <rick_h_> you just specify which you want
[14:40] <rick_h_> juju deploy precise/juju-gui
[14:40] <jrwren_> quickstart just picks one, how to force?
[14:41] <jrwren_> --gui-charm-url maybe?
[14:41] <frankban_> jrwren_: yes, that should work
[14:41] <jrwren_> i'll try that.
[14:41] <jrwren_> thanks frankban_
[14:41] <frankban_> jrwren_: otherwise, for example in ec2 where the GUI is colocated in the bootstrap node, if machine 0 is precise than the precise charm should be used
[14:41] <jrwren_> should short form charm url work?  cs:precise/juju-gui   ok?
[14:42] <frankban_> jrwren_: it should IIRC
[14:42] <jrwren_> frankban_: makes sense, I just did not know how to force it on a new bootstrap.
[14:42] <jrwren_> frankban_: thanks.
[14:42] <frankban_> yw
[14:43] <jrwren_> juju-quickstart: error: charm URL has invalid revision: gui  <-- I wonder if I should file a bug
[14:43] <frankban_> jrwren_: no, it's not a bug, now that I remember, when using a customized charm utl, you need to specify the revision
[14:44] <frankban_> url even
[14:44] <jrwren_> ok, easy enough to use browser to find latest rev.
[14:48] <rbasak> jrwren_: re: bug 1306537, I think juju-gui deploys precise to run itself, doesn't it? So if "lsb_release -a" says on the juju gui machine that it's precise, then the bug is fixed.
[14:48] <mup> Bug #1306537: LXC local provider fails to provision precise instances from a trusty host <deploy> <local-provider> <lxc> <verification-needed> <juju-core:Fix Released by wallyworld> <juju-core 1.18:Fix Released by wallyworld> <juju-quickstart:Fix Released by frankban> <juju-quickstart (Ubuntu):Fix
[14:48] <mup> Released> <juju-quickstart (Ubuntu Trusty):Fix Committed> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1306537>
[14:49] <rbasak> I think that's how the original bug triggered.
[14:49] <rbasak> (and thus breaking juju-quickstart)
[14:49] <jrwren_> rbasak: It did not deploy precise by default for me. It chose trusty.
[14:49] <rbasak> jrwren_: ah, perhaps that has changed now.
[14:49] <rick_h_> jrwren_: do you have a default series defined?
[14:49] <jrwren_> rick_h_: yes, precise.
[14:50] <rick_h_> I though this bug was around what happened without a defautl series, we hit into a bug with juju-core. So the thing now is that core's relaesed a fix, we've released a fix, it might be hard to redupe
[14:52] <frankban_> yeah, IIRC that was mainly a core bug
[14:53] <rick_h_> jrwren_: so I think a fair thing to do here is to note that you cannot replicate the bug with this version of quickstart
[14:53] <rbasak> +1
[14:53] <rbasak> And I think an explanation is sufficient to then mark it verification-done.
[14:54] <rbasak> "Bug no longer exists because $reasons" is perfect for verification-done.
[14:54] <rick_h_> jujugui call in 7 kanban please
[14:55] <jrwren_> rick_h_: I did that, but I wanted to try forcing precise to make sure that it does not hang, and I did that successfully too.
[14:55] <rick_h_> jrwren_: awesome
[14:55] <rbasak> jrwren_: sorry, I think I've muddled things here.
[14:55] <rbasak> Looking again, the key bug was in Juju. juju-quickstart had a task, and you moved to Trusty from Precise, which also eliminated the bug.
[14:56] <rick_h_> rbasak: right
[14:56] <hatch> oh man lp not including the link in bug emails is incredibly frustrating
[14:56] <rbasak> So I don't think you can reproduce without using both juju-core from !proposed and also juju-quickstart from !proposed.
[14:56] <rick_h_> hatch: it does have links, what bug email did you get without one?
[14:56] <rbasak> As long as proposed juju works with proposed juju-quickstart, we should be verification-done.
[14:56] <jrwren_> rbasak: hehehe
[14:57] <rbasak> I'll just c&p this explanation and mark verification done.
[14:58] <jcsackett> rick_h_: may be a moment late, helping ant out with an issue.
[14:58] <rbasak> jrwren_: done. Thanks for testing, and sorry for the confusion.
[14:58] <rick_h_> jujugui call in 2 prepare prepare
[14:59] <jrwren_> rbasak: no worries. Thanks for jumping in.
[15:00] <rick_h_> frankban_: ant__ ^
[15:30] <hatch> we are getting new cash regists^h^h^h^h^h speed cameras
[15:40] <hatch> jujugui lf reviews and qa https://github.com/juju/juju-gui/pull/566
[15:41] <hatch> luca: I'm thinking that if the blue circle is turning yellow in mv it should also turn yellow on the service icons?
[15:42] <luca> hatch: yeah
[15:43] <hatch> it's not as noticable because it just sits here instead of changing names or anything
[15:43] <hatch> but I'll add a card to get to at some point
[15:43] <hatch> Makyo: my current branch makes some changes to the ecs so you might want to take a peek at #566 just to make sure it's not going to conflict
[15:44] <hatch> and while you're there - you might as well review it :P
[15:46] <Makyo> hatch, will do
[16:24] <jrwren_> TIL: you can mismatch juju and juju-core package versions.
[16:24] <hatch> ohh yeah that happens
[16:25] <hatch> I dun that before
[16:25] <hatch> you get some weird error
[16:25] <hatch> s
[16:29] <jrwren_> especially when core is 1.21 and quickstart can't read the version
[16:29] <jrwren_> juju cmd was working. doing weird things like juju versions says 1.18, but using 1.21 tools when bootstrapping.
[16:37] <jrwren_> rbasak: ping?
[16:37] <rbasak> jrwren_: pong
[16:37] <jrwren_> rbasak: https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-quickstart/+bug/1309678  Tested with juju and juju-quickstart from proposed and maybe found a new bug :(
[16:37] <mup> Bug #1309678: a value is required for the control bucket field <verification-needed> <juju-quickstart:Fix Released by bac> <juju-quickstart (Ubuntu):Fix Released> <juju-quickstart (Ubuntu Trusty):Fix Committed> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1309678>
[16:38] <jrwren_> I think it is a fixed bug in newer juju, but not fixed in proposed?
[16:39] <jrwren_> rbasak: oh, i just realized you aren't on that bug.
[16:40] <rbasak> jrwren_: does this new potential bug affect any Juju user hitting EC2 or OpenStack? Or is it really specific to the reproduction steps in this bug?
[16:41] <jrwren_> rbasak: afaik any ec2 user. I am unsure about openstack.
[16:47] <jrwren_> rbasak: wait, It may be because I am using python-websocket package from a juju stable ppa
[16:47] <rbasak> jrwren_: we need to find out if this package in trusty-proposed will regress users in Trusty.
[16:47] <jrwren_> rbasak: exactly what I'm making sure is not the case.
[16:47] <hatch> anyone else available for a review?
[16:47] <hatch> https://github.com/juju/juju-gui/pull/566
[16:47] <rbasak> jrwren_: thanks, you're ahead of me :)
[16:48] <hatch> jujugui ^
[16:48] <jrwren_> rbasak: would be a pretty nasty and obvious bug, so I think it is me.
[16:51] <jrwren_> rbasak: confirmed it was ME and not a real bug. Sorry about that. i should have figured it out sooner.
[16:52] <rbasak> jrwren_: no problem. Thank you for being diligent.
[16:52] <rbasak> (about flagging potential issues)
[16:52] <rbasak> Would rather have it that way round than push a bug to -updates :)
[16:52] <jrwren_> indeed.
[17:20] <hatch> rick_h_: you around yet?
[17:31] <rick_h_> hatch: just back
[17:31] <rick_h_> what's up?
[17:32] <hatch> rick_h_: the config 'pick original value' stuff - did we wan't them to do this at any time or only when there is a conflict?
[17:32] <rick_h_> hatch: only when there is a conflict
[17:32] <rick_h_> hatch: just that the conflict UI shows 3 values in the select box vs the 2 I think
[17:33] <hatch> alright - able for a preimp?
[17:33] <rick_h_> sure thing, standup room?
[17:33] <hatch> yup'
[18:14] <rick_h_> jcastro: what's the cross team thing next week? Should we be thinking of showing off machine view there?
[18:14] <jcastro> what cross team thing?
[18:15] <rick_h_> jcastro: the email you sent out about a cross team presentation next week
[18:15] <jcastro> oh that's the cloud cross team
[18:15] <rick_h_> oh it was canceled for this week nvm
[18:15] <jcastro> It's more higher level than specific tools
[18:15] <rick_h_> gotcha ok cool
[18:15] <rick_h_> just checking
[18:15] <jcastro> that's the once a month one
[18:22] <hatch> jcastro: since you're working hard on learning the tools - do you know if you have a multi proc instance if you can deploy two units to it and specify that each one gets one proc?
[18:23] <jcastro> I haven't tried that specifically
[18:23] <jcastro> but I don't see why that wouldn't work
[18:25] <hatch> how would you do it?
[18:26] <jcastro> machine constraints
[18:26] <hatch> juju deploy --to doesn't also work with constraints
[18:26] <jcastro> how else?
[18:26] <jcastro> oh, I guess if we set the constraint beforehand?
[18:26] <rick_h_> jcastro: hatch http://www.cyberciti.biz/tips/setting-processor-affinity-certain-task-or-process.html I'd have the charm do it
[18:26] <rick_h_> jcastro: hatch and it'd have to be some sort of config on the charm which cpu to have affinity with
[18:27] <hatch> interesting - I'm working on a new blog post "easy horizontal scaling of SOA" so doing some research and not having much luck hah
[18:27] <hatch> rick_h_: that does seem like a cool technique....but I feel like juju should handle this
[18:27] <hatch> maybe kvm instances?
[18:27] <hatch> are they heavy?
[18:27]  * hatch knows little of kvm
[18:28] <rick_h_> hatch: right, but currently it doesn't really. I'm not sure how lxc containers get cpu time, but assume it's less manual than 'you get core 0, you get core 1'
[18:30] <hatch> if setting cpu affinity is as easy as it shows in that post then adding it to the charm separate from the users real service would be an acceptable workaround imho
[18:36] <Makyo> jujugui going to walk the dogs over lunch, stepping away for a bit.
[18:38] <jrwren_> what is the benefit?
[18:39] <hatch> jrwren_: say you had two services running on the same machine but one was more cpu intensive - you may still want to give the other one a full core to use regardless
[18:40] <jrwren_> I've never thought about affinity and that case.
[18:40] <hatch> that's essentially what you're doing when you get 2 ec2 smalls instead of a medium
[18:40] <hatch> but assume that you don't have a choice about the hardware
[18:41] <jrwren_> with Xen as your affinity system.
[18:42] <hatch> I'm not sure what you mean
[18:42] <jrwren_> the hypervisor manages it for you when you get 2 smalls instead of a medium.
[18:44] <hatch> right - but it would be nice if you could deploy 4 charms to a 4 core machine and assign each one a core
[18:44] <jrwren_> I see what you mean. That would be pretty cool.
[18:45] <jrwren_> it prevents starvation, but it also prevents allowing natural balancing of short bursts of usage >1
[18:45] <jrwren_> I'd want to profiled and a real world case documented before I actually deployed a production service that way :)
[18:46] <jrwren_> hatch: you could use rlimits to do the same thing with memory.
[18:47] <jrwren_> hatch: actually, if you don't actually care about affinity, and just usage, you could do the whole thing with rlimits and continue to let the kernel execute the process wherever it wants.
[18:51] <jrwren_> hatch: you have me distracted thinking about this.
[18:54] <jrwren_> hatch: at first I was thinking choosing a good linux scheduler could help... but then i stumbled on http://git.kernel.org/cgit/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/tree/Documentation/cgroups/cpusets.txt
[18:55] <jrwren_> so cgroups supports this. no idea if lxc utilizes them.
[18:55] <urulama> jrwren_, hatch: was just trying to suggest cgroups
[18:55] <jrwren_> lookx like lxc has supported it for a couple of yeras.
[18:55] <urulama> jrwren_: lxc actually sits on top of cgroups
[18:55] <urulama> jrwren_: iirc
[18:55] <jrwren_> urulama: right. I didn't know if lxc used cpusets though.
[18:55] <rick_h_> yep
[18:56] <jrwren_> http://serverfault.com/questions/444232/limit-memory-and-cpu-with-lxc-execute
[18:56] <jrwren_> lxc-cgroup -n foo cpuset.cpus "0,3"
[18:56] <urulama> jrwren_: nice, tnx
[18:56] <jrwren_> wow, its all there and can be done at the lxc level instead of per process level. That is awesome.
[18:57] <urulama> jrwren_: did you just propose to make more detailed choices with MV? :D
[18:58] <jrwren_> urulama: nope. Just thinking out loud.
[18:59] <hatch> that's awesome
[18:59] <hatch> so now the question is weather juju would support passing those flags
[18:59] <hatch> unless it can be done from within the container
[18:59] <urulama> jrwren_: then i will :) allocate your charm per core per cpu. just a machine is not good enough :D
[19:00]  * urulama spent too much time playing with toys ... shall get serious now
[19:00] <hatch> hah - this has been really helpful :)
[19:01] <hatch> didn't even know where to start looking so apparently I was looking in the wrong spots
[19:01] <jrwren_> i'd be surprised if it can be done inside container.
[19:03] <jrwren_> i guess it would be if root inside the container is not restricted.
[19:04] <hatch> if it can't be then it would have to be functionality added to juju
[19:05] <urulama> juju would be awesome if something like OSv would be used (or implemented)
[19:05] <urulama> http://osv.io
[19:06] <jrwren_> urulama: ha!
[19:07] <urulama> such virtualization and better vm io was something i was working on before joining canonical, but it would make things really useful in juju land
[19:10] <jrwren_> i kind of like the "ubuntu is our platform" approach to juju.
[19:10] <jrwren_> all these "kernel is our platform" VM/container systems are forgetting that all those system services are there for a reason.
[19:11] <jrwren_> but... i'm just an old curmudgeon sysadmin
[19:13] <hatch> haha no I am with you there too
[19:15] <urulama> sure, agree. just that "ubuntu" can be really small :D
[19:15] <hatch> yeah 58MB or something
[19:16] <jrwren_> it can be 58? really?
[19:17] <jrwren_> I thought cloudimg was about as small as it got.
[19:18] <hatch> https://plus.google.com/+JeffPihach/posts/id9zyd8CZsd
[19:19] <hatch> 63MB sorry
[19:22] <jrwren_> cool.
[19:22] <jrwren_> and its not even bzip2 or xv! :)
[19:24] <jrwren_> 209M extracted, so this is almost cloudimg without a kernel?
[19:26] <hatch> I have no idea
[19:26] <hatch> haha
[19:29] <jrwren_> 15yrs ago I played with a redhat variant and its --excludedocs option to make a pretty minimal size core distro.
[19:30] <jrwren_> I can't remember why. I was targetting something with limited storage, but I don't remember what.
[19:35] <jrwren_> use better compression: 42M     ubuntu-core-14.04.1-core-amd64.tar.xz
[19:40] <hatch> haha
[19:51] <urulama> jrwren_, hatch: if interested, i think this is a good read
[19:51] <urulama> https://lwn.net/Articles/524952/
[19:53] <urulama> and part2
[19:53] <urulama> https://plus.google.com/+OsvIo/posts/fgzsepcScTa
[19:53] <hatch> will check it out
[19:54] <jrwren_> same ideas as https://coreos.com AFAICT
[19:54] <hatch> and coreos has a bus with a gopher on it
[19:54] <urulama> jrwren_: yas
[19:54] <urulama> yes even :)
[19:55] <urulama> it's sometimes nice to remember all the abstractions that are going on within the "cloud" ... and not take them for granted
[19:55] <urulama> like these
[19:55] <urulama> orm/x86-server-virtualization-technology/
[19:55] <urulama> ah
[19:55] <urulama> http://www.cubrid.org/blog/dev-platform/x86-server-virtualization-technology/
[19:56] <jrwren_> head exploding. :)
[20:03] <urulama> that's always a good thing :)
[20:04] <hatch> you mean I can't just go to BestBuy and pick up a cloud and plug it in and go?
[20:05] <urulama> just buy some chemtrails spray and create one in your room, as big as you want :)
[20:17] <urulama> night all
[20:31] <jrwren_> head exploding more: http://www.openmirage.org
[20:35]  * rick_h_ steps away until evening AU calls
[22:18] <huwshimi> Morning
[22:21] <rick_h_> morning huwshimi
[22:32] <huwshimi> rick_h_, hatch: Call time?
[22:32] <rick_h_> huwshimi: couple min late hang on
[22:32] <huwshimi> rick_h_: np
[22:32] <rick_h_> hatch: is going to be out for tonight
[22:32] <huwshimi> ok
[22:37] <rick_h_> huwshimi: joining now
[22:38] <huwshimi> rick_h_: on way
[23:08] <huwshimi> rick_h_: Great videos, nice to see things really working!
[23:14] <huwshimi> *video


[09:35] <tseliot> ricotz, libvdpau 1.3 was on my list, but I didn't know it was in debian already
[11:29] <ricotz> tseliot, thanks!


[09:00] <czajkowski> aloha
[09:01] <ebel> yo
[09:04] <czajkowski> hows things?
[09:09] <slashtom> good morning
[09:28] <BenChapman> Morning
[09:36] <slashtom> good morning
[09:36] <slashtom> did you find another teacher?
[09:40] <czajkowski> teacher?
[09:43] <slashtom> for the coderdojo
[09:44] <slashtom> it's a great idea, wish there was something like that when i was a boy


[12:22] <mdke> nixternal: hmm?
[12:22] <nixternal> what did i do now?
[12:23] <mdke> something about the mailing list
[12:23] <mdke> nixternal: you're subscribed, maybe take a look at your subscription options
[12:24] <nixternal> i did, the only thing i saw was the "filters" for language based topics
[12:24] <nixternal> english or french
[12:24] <nixternal> so i removed them, and will wait and see
[12:24] <mdke> you are tagged as "not metoo", no idea what that means, but others don't seem to have it on
[12:24] <nixternal> hehe
[12:25] <nixternal> that might be seeing my own posts maybe?
[12:25] <mdke> ah, that means no copies of your own posts
[12:25] <nixternal> ya
[12:25] <nixternal> i did set metoo to requests
[12:25] <mdke> ok, all seems to be well apart from that
[12:25] <nixternal> ty sir...hopefully it will start working here
[12:26] <nixternal> im willing to bet it was the english/french filter thing
[12:51] <Kamping_Kaiser> ompaul, h.u.c/community
[12:51] <ompaul> Kamping_Kaiser, been there read that :-)
[12:52] <Kamping_Kaiser> thats where it should be ;)
[12:53] <ompaul> Kamping_Kaiser, what was bugging me was there is no --nocleanup instruction on the mirror
[12:53] <ompaul> i.e. it does cleanups :) this should be a matter of choice
[12:54] <Kamping_Kaiser> heh, i know. not my fault :)
[12:54] <ompaul> Madpilot sent me the actual url :-)
[12:55] <Kamping_Kaiser> fame at last ;)
[12:55] <ompaul> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Debmirror
[12:57] <Kamping_Kaiser> hm. some stray comments
[01:03] <Kamping_Kaiser> later all. *goes to tafe*
[01:33] <nixternal> mdke: when doing the UDSF to wiki stuff, should we add a small "blurb" about the original author, or where the information came from?
[01:46] <ompaul> attibs are always good
[01:47] <ompaul> attribs, and - even better it gives you the chance to have the space searched and people to "object" if that is what they want to do - your trying to be fair use and best practice at the same time
[01:47] <nixternal> ya, plus if someone has a question, they will reach them, and not me since my name is on the bottom for edits ;)
[01:48] <nixternal> im actually going to use this tutorial eventually that i just transferred..looks pretty cool
[01:48] <ompaul> fun fun fun
[01:49] <nixternal> i will say, moinmoin code snippets are garbage compare to mediawiki
[01:49] <nixternal> the line wrap is fine, but can be very confusing to a new user, or simply look like trash
[01:49] <ompaul> mediawiki has no granularity for security
[01:50] <nixternal> ya..but it does have some nice "formatting" stuff
[01:51] <nixternal> should we use # or $ to portray the command line?
[01:51] <nixternal> # == comment out to me
[01:54] <nixternal> hiya jsgotangco!
[01:54] <jsgotangco> hello!
[02:08] <nixternal> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/TASCAM_US-122
[02:08] <nixternal> review please ;)
[02:09] <jsgotangco> wow you have a Tascam interface
[02:09] <nixternal> no, but i will soon now after doing that
[02:10] <jsgotangco> i used to have a tascam multitrack loved it to death
[02:36] <jsgotangco> http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/08/07/philippines.volcano.ap/
[02:36] <jsgotangco> beautiful!
[02:38] <nixternal> thats a cool pic
[02:40] <jsgotangco> yep i saw it explode before its really nice
[02:41] <nixternal> i seen it in hawaii once a few years ago..actually quite a few years ago..the lava fields there..it is neat to see
[02:42] <bimberi> hm, something on that page crashes FF here :/
[02:43] <nixternal> flash?
[02:43] <nixternal> they have 3 ads that are flash on the page
[02:44] <bimberi> yes, could be - elements of the page start loading (some text and pics) then boom
[02:50] <bimberi> works in epiphany though :)
[08:56] <Burgundavia> http://digg.com/linux_unix/Ubuntu_Edgy_Eft_Knot_2 <-- bleedin joy, I knew this would happen
[08:57] <crimsun> we totally need to plant "hidden" Edgy wiki pages with ponies and stuff
[08:58] <Burgundavia> sounds good
[09:02] <mdke> nixternal: add a link to the forum thread at the bottom, I think
[09:02] <mdke> morning everyone
[09:03] <Burgundavia> morning mdke
[09:12] <nixternal> heh
[09:12] <nixternal> mdke, did you take a look at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/TASCAM_US-122 to see how I linked the info at the bottom?  It may be overkill, but i just covered my rear on it
[09:12] <nixternal> do you think we need a digg article announcing that a release is just "around the corner" ? i dont....
[09:12] <nixternal> heh, that guy let him have it on that one ;)
[09:13] <mdke> that looks fine (nice page). I'd remove the bit in italics
[09:14] <Burgundavia> right, night all
[09:14] <nixternal> ya, it is more like advertising i think...
[09:14] <nixternal> nite
[09:14] <nixternal> ok
[09:21] <Kamping_Kaiser> rofl @ knot 2 thing
[09:22] <Madpilot> once again, my feeling that digg is nearly pointless is reinforced... ;)
[09:24] <Kamping_Kaiser> heh. i have to agree
[09:25] <nixternal> same here
[09:26] <Kamping_Kaiser> hey nixternal
[09:26] <Madpilot> heh
[09:26] <nixternal> hehe
[09:27] <Madpilot> maybe I should start a blog, blog about how utterly pointless Digg is, and then wait for the article to be dugg :)
[09:27] <Kamping_Kaiser> lol. get addsence ready - i think your on a winner there ;)
[09:45] <Kamping_Kaiser> no reply yet :(
[09:56] <nixternal> get me one too while you are at it
[09:57] <Kamping_Kaiser> heh. i want it to go with my sparstation 5s and 10
[10:37] <Kamping_Kaiser> can someone poiunt me to a page that syas what the different install cds do? i cant work out what i need to do for a minimal install anymore :( these fancy new cds
[10:38] <mdke> Kamping_Kaiser: http://releases.ubuntu.com/dapper/
[10:40] <Kamping_Kaiser> so a default server is 'minimal', and you have to opt in to a lamp stack etc?
[10:41] <mdke> that's right, I think
[10:41] <Kamping_Kaiser> thanks.
[10:41] <mdke> well, the default server install includes some server packages
[10:42] <Kamping_Kaiser> :/ i'm after a minimal install for a gateway
[10:42] <mdke> you can type "minimal" I think
[10:43] <Kamping_Kaiser> on all cds, or just alternate? *has all cds, just wants to keep this to as few installs as possable*
[10:44] <Kamping_Kaiser> bbl. thanks mdke .
[10:58] <mdke> Kamping_Kaiser: just alternate
[11:24] <nixternal> mdke, is it really as simple as for instance,    xml2po -e -o output.pot releasenotes.xml     and then uploading it into rosetta?
[11:24] <nixternal> say i did that for all of the kubuntu docs, that is all that needs to be done?
[11:24] <mdke> no
[11:25] <nixternal> ok, i was going to say that seemed to easy a task
[11:25] <mdke> steps 1 and 2 were done a long time ago. What we need to do is step 3. It involves a fair amount of correcting invalid xml
[11:25] <nixternal> the importing back into the repo?
[11:25] <mdke> that's right
[11:26] <Kamping_Kaiser> should i ask here about gnome/ubuntu related questions, or is there a 'proper' channel?
[11:26] <mdke> Kamping_Kaiser: #ubuntu?
[11:26] <Kamping_Kaiser> *gnome/uibuntu doc
[11:26] <Kamping_Kaiser> *ubuntu
[11:26] <nixternal> hehe
[11:26] <Kamping_Kaiser> :S
[11:26] <mdke> what's the question?
[11:27] <Kamping_Kaiser> the sharing app for ubuntu (in system -> ) has no help, and the bugs been open quite a while. should i try and write some and get it oked at the ubuntu level, or try and go direct to gnome?
[11:27] <Madpilot> sharing app?
[11:28] <Kamping_Kaiser> system -> admin -> shared folders
[11:28] <Madpilot> ah
[11:28] <Kamping_Kaiser> (it has no help last i looked, looking again)
[11:28] <mdke> directly to gnome
[11:28] <Kamping_Kaiser> still none
[11:28] <Kamping_Kaiser> ok, thanks
[11:29] <mdke> find the upstream bug, and see if someone is working on it already, maybe there is material in the user guide but no help button
[11:47] <Kamping_Kaiser> thanks, i posted on the bug - now i'll have to see if theres any action
[01:13] <mdke> glatzor: got a moment?
[01:13] <mdke> manicka: hi
[01:14] <glatzor> mdke: sure
[01:14] <mdke> glatzor: about the german translation of the ubuntu desktop guide, i downloaded them yesterday and they still had *loads* of problems. Can you get someone on the team to clear it up?
[01:18] <glatzor> mdke: The team is quite inactive at the moment.
[01:19] <glatzor> I think that I have to finish the work myself and I am going to this tomorrow
[01:19] <glatzor> will this be ok?
[01:19] <mdke> sure thing, thanks
[06:03] <nixternal> hello there ;)
[06:03] <nixternal> mdke, i am going to play with the translation stuff to see if i will be of some assistance ;)
[06:04] <mdke> nixternal: that would be great
[06:04] <mdke> nixternal: i'm around for about 45 minutes if you need a hand
[06:05] <nixternal> cool..i think i should have a good grab of it right now for step 3..i know to run the translate script, find errors, fix them...once they are fixed, i submit a patch?
[06:06] <nixternal> oh, these translations, for trunk or dapper?, or both?
[06:06] <mdke> branches/dapper
[06:07] <mdke> nixternal: yes, that's right. any completely new translations should be added to the relevant Makefile and packaging too, and svn added, if you can do that
[06:07] <nixternal> sure, i will check that out as well
[06:08] <mdke> I will help you along
[06:22] <nixternal> when downloading translations, do you download them individually after they are at 100%?   don't grab them if they aren't complete correct?
[06:23] <mdke> nixternal: no, you grab them all
[06:23] <nixternal> ok
[06:23] <mdke> what doc are you doing?
[06:23] <mdke> (highlight me with questions about this btw)
[06:24] <nixternal> "Download Translations" -> "Everything | PO format" -> "Request Download"     <- mdke ;)
[06:25] <mdke> yep
[06:25] <mdke> what doc?
[06:25] <nixternal> about-ubuntu
[06:25] <mdke> I did that one yesterday
[06:25] <mdke> (hence it wasn't in the list of ones to do)
[06:25] <nixternal> k
[06:25] <mdke> try about kubuntu
[06:26] <nixternal> cool
[06:26] <nixternal> there is "aboutkubuntu" and "desktopguide"
[06:27] <mdke> aboutkubuntu is likely to be a bit easier
[06:27] <nixternal> requested both of them
[06:27] <nixternal> ya, i will start with the aboutkubuntu first
[06:27] <nixternal> i know the guide is huge, and aboutkubuntu is smaller and probably easier to pick up on
[06:28] <mdke> Burgwork: btw, saw your exchange with jono about the participate page yesterday, check out the ContributingToUbuntu doc that andreas and jordan are working on for our docs, might be appropriate for the website
[06:28] <Burgwork> mdke, yep
[06:28] <Burgwork> thanks
[06:51] <mdke> nixternal: how's it going? I ought to disappear soon
[06:51] <nixternal> it is good so far, i got the dl links
[06:52] <nixternal> if i have questions in a bit, i will ping you, and when you get around...i will be here all day, so no worries if you have to go
[06:52] <nixternal> you will be back ;)
[06:52] <nixternal> plus im working on a post for your blog ;)
[06:52] <nixternal> trying to give it a title that is appropriate and to the point
[06:52] <nixternal> Help Benefit the Documentation Project   that is the first idea
[06:53] <mdke> it needs to have "forum" in it :)
[06:54] <mdke> ok, ping me with questions, and I'll check later/tomorrow
[06:54] <nixternal> thats cool, thanks!
[06:57] <jjesse> afternoon nixternal
[06:57] <mdke> cyall later
[06:57] <nixternal> hiya jjesse ;)
[06:57] <nixternal> l8r mdke, thanks again
[06:57] <mdke> thank *you*
[08:09] <jjesse> quick wiki formating question, how do i link to a subpage/
[08:10] <jjesse> for example KubuntuDocs/Edgy
[08:10] <jjesse> on my wiki page only links to Kubuntu
[08:16] <nixternal> [:KubuntuDocs/Edgy:Your Link]
[08:17] <jjesse> thanks
[08:18] <nixternal> no problem boss
[08:18] <nixternal> ;)
[08:35] <mdke> or ["/Subpage"]
[08:38] <nixternal> ya
[08:39] <nixternal> im getting used to just doing it like KubuntuDocs/Edgy instead of [:KubuntuDocs/Edgy:Kubuntu Edgy Documentation]
[08:40] <nixternal> that way there people can see the subpage layout in case they get confused my simplicity
[08:40] <nixternal> that commercial != non-free software topic on sounder is getting beat to death
[08:41] <LaserJock> heh
[08:44] <jjesse> every topic on sounder gets beaten to death


[11:14] <olive> ubuntu-fr needs the 11.04 CD design :|
[11:19] <olive> It is very important. We have a big european event in two weeks. Manufacturing the CDs takes two weeks...
[11:20] <olive> no respond from my ubuntu/canonical contacts :/


[12:05] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[12:35] <user|3> Hi is there a way to install Kubuntu on the raspberry pi 4?
[12:35] <user|3> Anyone?
[12:36] <user|3> Is there any way to install Kubuntu on the pi4?
[12:37] <user|3> -_-
[12:37] <weedmic> u need to give ppl a chance to digest what you want - unless you just want the answer "yes, of course"
[12:37] <user|3> ok....
[12:39] <weedmic> is there an OS already on it?  or nothing at all?
[12:39] <oerheks> install server and then kubuntu desktop ?
[12:39] <oerheks> it might be horrible slow ..
[12:39] <oerheks> https://ubuntu.com/download/raspberry-pi
[12:40] <weedmic> fyi, this device is from 2016 - it may not perform to your expectations
[12:58] <BluesKaj> I tried Kubuntu on rpi3 and as oerheks said it was terribly slow. Lubuntu or a 'buntu flavour with lighter desktop footprint should work ok, but still somewhat slow.
[12:59] <oerheks> disable baloo and animations, at minimum
[13:01] <weedmic> oh yes, i hate baloo
[13:04] <oerheks> on a good system i would increase baloos hdd space.
 Ss01
[20:29] <mparillo> There is a detailed guide for installing Kubunutu on a Raspberry Pi. I think I saw it linked from reddit, but I lost my browser tabs.
[20:30] <mparillo> And yes, you start with the server or minimal ISO, or whatever they call that today.


[07:10]  * smb yawns
[07:41]  * apw looks blearily at smb
[07:41] <smb> apw, Sounds as awake as I am
[07:41] <apw> hardly i suspect
[07:42] <Kano> hi, is 3.4 final already triggered to compile?
[07:43] <apw> depends what happend to the build server on friday
[07:43] <Kano> and what happend?
[07:44] <apw> they were shifting the disk as root was too big
[07:44] <Kano> and that disabled the autobuilds?
[07:45] <apw> if the machine doing the autobuilds is down, yes
[07:45] <Kano> can you check?
[07:45] <smb> If we got enough coffee and we can log in
[07:53] <Kano> btw. could you add a litte patch that just adds a 0 size header to fix build of some drivers?
[07:54] <Kano> it does not matter if it is the "correct" file, but it has to be there
[08:03] <Kano> http://paste.debian.net/170399/
[08:03] <Kano> something like that
[08:04] <Kano> that would be enough
[08:12] <apw> cking, ??
[08:13] <Kano> apw: whould you add that when attached to the bug report?
[08:13] <cking> apw, you referring to my audio beiong broken
[08:13] <apw> cking, rather unsubtly
[08:13] <smb> he does
[08:13]  * cking gives it a whack
[08:13] <apw> Kano, i am working on your first question, and a cup of tea
[08:13] <Kano> ah
[08:14] <Kano> well i work on many things the same time ;)
[08:14] <apw> cking, we can hear you
[08:14] <apw> Kano, as can i, my other three threads are working on getting my laptop working
[08:14] <apw> cking, we are talking to each other
[08:15] <Kano> whats up with your laptop?
[08:15] <apw> Kano, catastrophic disk failure
[08:15] <apw> cking, nope, tempting though it is we are talking
[08:15] <smb> cking, Right we all muted ourselves... :-P
[08:15] <Kano> replace it?
[08:15] <apw> Kano, now that is a good idea, why didn't i think of it
[08:16] <cking> I think apw needs to glue all loose the oxide back on the platter
[08:16] <apw> cking, oh another good idea
[08:17] <Kano> dont worry my 40 gb ssd died last week
[08:17] <cking> Kano, which model? (so I won't buy one)
[08:17] <Kano> cking: corsair f40
[08:18] <cking> ah
[08:18]  * cking reboots
[08:23] <acapemont> quick question: my site works when you go to https://site.site.com but not http://site.site.com (loads HTML without a stylesheet)
[08:24] <apw> acapemont, hmmm ... the config for those two are differernt arn't they?  effectivly different sites.  though you'd find better understanding from the server folks, on #ubuntu-server
[08:24]  * ppisati -> goes for more coffee...
[08:24] <acapemont> will check in there
[08:24] <acapemont> thanks
[08:24] <ohsix> browser might not like a css reference from an ssl page to a non ssl resource too :p
[08:42]  * ppisati -> reboots
[09:16] <cooloney> morning, EU folks
[09:17] <smb> cooloney, evening
[09:30] <apw> cooloney, yo
[09:31] <apw> cooloney, hows it going... having fun with lxc ?
[09:31] <cooloney> interesting, a chinese linux os vendor called YlmfOS includes uksm in their kernel
[09:31] <Kano> anybody going to berlin this week?
[09:32] <apw> cooloney, uksm ?
[09:32] <cooloney> apw: http://kerneldedup.org/
[09:32] <cooloney> too bad, all of them are in Chinese
[09:33] <apw> yeah chinese only it seems, my reading isn't quite up to that
[09:34] <cooloney> UKSM might be developed by some Chinese kernel developer, which support to kill data duplication so it will get more free memory in the system
[09:34] <cooloney> data deduplication
[09:34] <apw> oh universal kernel shared memory or something
[09:34] <cooloney> apw: ultra ksm, heh
[09:35] <cooloney> apw: but you can watch the video,
[09:39] <cooloney> apw: looks like it's a competitor for KSM
[09:39] <apw> its cirtainly an impressive looking video
[09:40] <apw> cooloney, is a shame i cannot read the sub-titles
[09:41] <cooloney> apw: it claims it's much better than KSM.
[09:41] <apw> its cirtainly doing something
[09:41] <apw> assuming the video is real
[09:41] <cooloney> apw: and it targets for virtualization, VPS market.
[09:42] <apw> cooloney, yeah those guys must love all of those sharing things
[09:43] <cooloney> but allo docs are in Chinese, and they don't have manpower to push code to upstream. heh
[09:44] <apw> there is always the problem, lack of manpower.  when they get sick of forward portging it all the time they will learn, they don't have the manpower not to upstream it
[09:45] <cooloney> apw: they provide kernel for our 12.04, maybe we can try it.
[09:45] <apw> i think you should read the docs, and see how massive it is before we get excited about it
[09:47] <cooloney> apw: yeah, i'm reading their doc
[09:50] <cooloney> apw: at least, http://buyvm.net/ and ylmf OS 5.0 are using it.
[09:58] <alexbligh> Is there a simple way to get the changesets from stock kernel 3.2 (or whatever the upstream Precise is based on) and the source package to build the Precise kernel (i.e. incl debian & debian.master directories)?
[10:01] <apw> alexbligh, our kernel is in git on kernel.ubuntu.com ... all the changes are there as commits
[10:01] <apw> the source package it was built from you can either get from launchpad, or regenerate it from the tag in the same repo
[10:13] <ppisati> apw: when you have some free cycle, can you tell me where to find you config review scripts?
[10:14] <apw> ppisati, sure ...
[10:26] <Kano> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/942569
[10:26] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 942569 in linux "binary headers packages are missing include/generated/compile.h" [Low,In progress]
[10:26] <Kano> now added there
[11:03] <ppisati> i should fill the expenses...
[11:03] <cking> ppisati, definitely
[11:45]  * ppisati -> lunch
[11:56] <alexbligh> apw, oops, missed your reply. Are you saying that kernel.ubuntu.com is rebased onto the 3.2 release? I'd assumed (quite possibly wrongly) that it was based on the Oneiric release, with the commits to bring the kernel up to date being imported.
[11:57] <apw> alexbligh, we rebase for each release, so that we know what we are carrying
[11:58] <alexbligh> apw, ah cool (I think). So in theory, if I had an extensively modified 3.2 kernel prepared by a.n.other (SUSE in this case), I should be able to apply your commits on top and get something with precise-like drivers and configuration.
[11:59] <apw> alexbligh, all depends how modified, but yes
[12:00] <alexbligh> 100 patches (patches.xen - oldstyle xenlinux). I've tried the other way around (take Precise kernel, apply 100 patches, and compile) but it's got lost in some has_fpu nastiness that I don't feel confident about fixing. Looks like SUSE and Ubuntu both took different approaches from mainline.
[12:01] <apw> alexbligh, patches.xen, those are for xen host integration right ?
[12:01] <apw> alexbligh, as we expect all the xen goodness to be in 3.2
[12:01] <alexbligh> apw, oldstyle xenlinux support so you can run xen3.3 (as opposed to xen4).
[12:02] <apw> alexbligh, as in we are not carrying anything for xen at all
[12:02] <apw> smb, ^^ ?
[12:02] <alexbligh> apw, yes you do - you carry all the Xen4 stuff.
[12:02] <alexbligh> apw, at least it works fine with Precise as domU and Oneiric as dom0
[12:02] <smb> Referring to lucid (10.04)?
[12:03] <alexbligh> smb, no Precise
[12:03] <smb> That is just mainline (having not read the hole backlog yet)
[12:03] <alexbligh> we have some customers who want to run Xen3 rather than Xen4
[12:03] <apw> smb, we don't have any xen patches for either dom0 or domU do we ?
[12:03] <apw> (in precise)
[12:03] <alexbligh> smb, yeah, mainline is just fine for Xen4
[12:03] <smb> apw, no
[12:04] <alexbligh> patches.xen is SUSE's patch set to support Xen3 (not Xen4) on 3.x
[12:04] <apw> hmmm, sounds like fun... /me declines to ask why someone would chose to run and old hypervisor
[12:04] <alexbligh> so my masochistic task for the week is to produce a kernel as close to Precise as possible (packaging and drivers) which does this too
[12:04] <smb> apw, You get what you get on ec2
[12:04] <alexbligh> apw, because Xen3 HVM guests do not in general run well on Xen4
[12:04] <alexbligh> apw, and what smb says :-)
[12:05] <apw> smb, but we don't run dom0 on ec2, so that at least is ok
[12:05] <alexbligh> (though it's the former for us, as we use PV-on-HVM rather than full paravirt).
[12:05] <apw> alexbligh, well that sounds like some fun :)
[12:05] <smb> apw, If having all sorts of hyervisors is ok... yes
[12:06] <apw> alexbligh, so normally their patches are a royal pain as they apply to a second set of source files
[12:06] <smb> There might be at least two issues I know of, but apart from that we run mainline on ec2 since maverick at least
[12:07] <smb> I believe Maverick was the one that still had the oxsave hack which now seems to cause problems with newer hypervisors
[12:07] <apw> smb, yeah alexbligh's problem is host support
[12:07] <alexbligh> apw, yes the patches are a PITA. I have actually got all the patches to apply on top of Precise. Compilation is a different matter though. I got this working for Natty rather more easily. Hence the different approach (take what SUSE has and Ubuntu-ify)
[12:07] <apw> (dom0 support)
[12:07] <apw> alexbligh, you are going to have sooo much fun
[12:08] <alexbligh> apw, well, tbf, the Natty kernel I built worked first time (and I nearly fell off my chair). Precise appears to be a bit harder.
[12:09] <smb> The suse set had a lot of staged things (xen_compat) which also makes you decide how far backward you want to go. Which in turn is hard to say on ec2
[12:10] <alexbligh> smb, it's not so much EC-2 as I need. Technically the requirement is "to run Xen 3.3.x like Centos 2.6.18-xenified did"
[12:10]  * smb wonders what exactly are the issues running native guest kernels...
[12:10] <alexbligh> smb, and it's also easier to take ALL the SUSE stuff (either by importing the patches, or by just starting off with the fully patched source) than bits and bobs.
[12:11] <smb> alexbligh, But you are aware that they rebase their set? Meaning future changes will sort of require a re-do-from-start
[12:12] <alexbligh> smb, the issue is that our licensees have customers, and they don't want to futz with customer machines. And (for instance) if the end-user has a VM running on Xen 3.3.x, with a modern kernel, and they move to Xen4, then Xen4 will helpfully unplug emulated disks which will cause the end user machine not to reboot. So we have people not wanting to move to Xen4.
[12:13] <alexbligh> smb, every Xen3 mod I have ever done means a redo-from-start.
[12:13] <alexbligh> smb, in an ideal world, I would organise a neutron ray which erased every trace of existence of Xen3. However, this technology is still in alpha.
[12:14] <alexbligh> smb, (but that's partly why I am looking to Ubuntu-ise a SUSE kernel, rather than patches.xen-ify an Ubuntu kernel, so they do all the hard work of rebasing not me).
[12:15] <smb> alexbligh, Well yes the unplug. Though at least for newer kernels it should be ok as we build in the pv drivers. And older are not causing it
[12:16] <smb> (newer meaning maverick to Precise (iirc)) probably only leaving natty in a mess
[12:18] <alexbligh> smb, the issue is they have (for instance) customers with (say) /boot mounted on /dev/sda3 (not /dev/xvda3). /boot is hardly ever used, so no one notices the drop in performance. They are running on a modern kernel (let's say Precise). You change the hypervisor underneath them, and their /boot disappears. Another completely separate problem is that the images we have built for these people with old kernels on with xenlinux pv driv
[12:18] <alexbligh> ers may or may not work under Xen4. The main problem is that the list of posisble changes (reordering of ethernet i/fs etc.) is so long, customers throw their hands up and day "noooo".
[12:20] <alexbligh> apw, OK I think I am being dumb here. So I am looking at kernel.ubuntu.com, at ubuntu/ubuntu-precise.git. Should I not expect to see somewhere a series of commits that adds debian, debian.master, and some drivers? All I can see is stuff that changes Makefile and changelog!
[12:21] <alexbligh> apw, ignore me, I am an idior
[12:23] <smb> alexbligh, Yeah, the naming. Though of course upstream Xen always discouraged the use of sd? in the config. Unfortunately did not disable it to force people off. FS labels seems to be the simplest way around that but I understand one does not want to change all customer images.
[12:24] <alexbligh> So when do you rebase against mainline? I can see a rebase against v3.2.14, but no rebase (or at least not commit with the word 'rebase' in) against 3.2.15 (though 3.2.15 tag is there)
[12:25] <smb> What is more of a worry are those host side problems that are worked around in the patchset. Like the OSXSAVE or some broken hv call in earliest 3.x Xen
[12:26] <smb> alexbligh, Either it is still in progress or has no commit. A rebase itself is invisible. Just normally one makes a comment when fixing up configs or changelogs...
[12:27] <alexbligh> smb, but won't I get them anyway by taking SUSE's entire patch set? I mean won't Jan have done the hard work for me? Or do you mean he may only be bothered about domU stuff...
[12:28] <smb> alexbligh, No it would be in there. It can have unexpected results sometimes. Like the fix for this broken hv poll call would turn ticket spinlocks into normal ones.
[12:29] <smb> That one was only needed for earlier than xen 3.2 (iirc) and it seems that ec2 slowly got away from those...
[12:30] <apw> alexbligh, we rebase against mainline/mainline stable until release, after release we cherrypick stable onto the top
[12:30] <alexbligh> smb, right, but I'm not going to use the resultant ugly chimera of a source tree to compile anything other than Xen dom0 kernels. So if you mean 'it will impact performance/sanity' then fine; if you mean 'it's not actually going to work', though...
[12:30] <apw> alexbligh, so there is a combination of techniques
[12:31] <alexbligh> hmmm.... perhaps I am better just copying over debian & debian.master and using a SUSE kernel, packaged as a debian kernel. Yuck. Are there many additional drivers in precise I'm going to miss?
[12:32] <apw> alexbligh, no idea what they have, we have little other than the union file systems that you may care about ... a lot of our delta is enablement for laptops and the like which is suspect is not your concern in a dom0
[12:32] <smb> alexbligh, You mean only use it for guest kernels (sorry need more coffee for multilevel negation). I would expect it to only impact performance. If you pick the right compat setting
[13:12] <apw> alexbligh, i wonder did you consider just merging the two tips, the suse and ubuntu ones, to see what happens
[13:29] <apw> ppisati, do i see we now have a Q ti-omap4 ?
[13:32] <tgardner> apw, I have not uploaded it yet. I thiugh I'd wait on ogasawara 3.4 rebase, and then have another look at the tools build failure.
[13:32] <apw> tgardner, right but we have an official branch already ?
[13:32] <tgardner> apw, yes
[13:33]  * apw fixed up the cve-autotriager to use it ...
[13:50] <ppisati> apw: yep
[13:50]  * ppisati is trying to make audio work on it...
[13:51] <ogasawara> hrm, can anyone else get to gomeisa?
[13:51] <ogasawara> I keep getting a permission denied
[13:51] <tgardner> ogasawara, still working on LDAP access
[13:51] <apw> ogasawara, waiting on IS
[13:51] <ogasawara> ah
[13:52] <apw> tangerine should be ok
[13:52] <cking> it is
[13:52]  * ogasawara gets ready to abuse tangerine
[13:54] <smb> fans start wailing
[14:14] <alexbligh> apw, no particular interest in xen3 dom0 on a laptop :-). I meant we will only be using it for dom0 (host). Problem with merging the two tips is that for reasons I do not fully understand some, but not all, of the patches.xen are in git on SUSE (i.e. the patches are in their kernel source archives as individual git files, but they do not appear to all be applied, or more accurately there is no arch/x86/include/mach-xen directory (
[14:14] <alexbligh> even though patches.xen contains changes for it); I am a bit lost as to why that is.
[14:15] <apw> they prolly get copied from the originals, when the build is running
[14:15] <apw> as i think they are copies of the existing files of the same names
[14:15] <smb> At least this was some headache with that patchset (which we have in lucid ec2)
[14:16] <smb> You basically end up with two parallel universes of Xen in the same source tree
[14:17] <tseliot> apw, cking: my nvidia card is acting up with both nouveau and nvidia. It's a new card, I'm wondering if it's dying: http://paste.ubuntu.com/999086/
[14:20] <smb> tseliot, At least something seems to decide to use interrupts no driver is expecting...
[14:20] <tseliot> smb: would irqpoll help?
[14:20] <tseliot> the only change I made was the graphics card...
[14:21] <smb> tseliot, Not sure. This is probably not immediate. Where there any suspends in between? I would check /proc/interrupts after boot to see which interrupts where used by what
[14:22] <smb> And when it happens whether it was a previously owned one that is reported to be not cared about
[14:22] <tseliot> smb: no, I don't use suspend on the desktop
[14:24] <smb> Somehow first irq#24 and then irq#16 triggered that and at least #24 was disabled...
[14:25] <tseliot> smb: irq24 is used by nouveau
[14:25] <cking> what is irq16 used by?
[14:26] <smb> and what type they are? msi?
[14:26] <tseliot> cking: IO-APIC-fasteoi   ahci, uhci_hcd:usb3
[14:27] <tseliot> 24 is IO-APIC-fasteoi   nouveau
[14:28] <cking> tseliot, is the card seated in the slot correctly?
[14:28] <smb> Hm, so for some reason there was an interrupt triggered on #24 which nouveau (or nvidia) driver did not think came from the card ...
[14:29] <tseliot> cking: I think so but I'll double check this
[14:31] <alexbligh> smb, apw, aaarrrggghhh. I am completely confused then, as the ubuntu kernel /does/ have a mach-xen directory.
[14:32] <smb> alexbligh, The mach-xen is the upstream xen code... If the patchset is what I remember then you have xxx-xen.h header files in the arch/x86
[14:32] <apw> apw@dm:~/git2/ubuntu-precise$ find . -name mach-xen
[14:32] <apw> apw@dm:~/git2/ubuntu-precise$
[14:32] <apw> alexbligh, ?
[14:32] <smb> oh oops.. was it the other way...
[14:34] <alexbligh> apw, find . -name 'mach-xen'
[14:34] <alexbligh> ./arch/x86/include/mach-xen
[14:34] <alexbligh> that's AFTER applying the suse patches
[14:34] <smb> Yeah, sorry, mach-xen is the suse patchset
[14:34] <alexbligh> (mm, phone)
[14:34] <smb> arch/x86/include/xen is upstram
[14:34] <apw> alexbligh, must be suse, its not in my tree
[14:39] <Cimi> I noticed bcmwl-kernel-source doesn't build in quantal, thus leaving users without wifi (like on my macbook)
[14:39]  * ogasawara back in 20
[14:39] <Cimi> I think there's a simple patch for it, let me try having it
[14:40] <smb> apw, alexbligh ,This is what I so much not like about the patchset. It makes obvious xen code not being used at all. And then some things used by both...
[14:41] <tseliot> apw, cking, smb: some nasty traces from the blob: http://paste.ubuntu.com/999116/
[14:41] <Cimi> well, patch is here https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bcmwl/+bug/994255
[14:41] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 994255 in bcmwl "bcmwl-kernel-source <IP_ADDRESS>+bdcom-0ubuntu6.1: bcmwl kernel module failed to build [fatal error: asm/system.h: No such file or directory]" [High,Confirmed]
[14:41] <tseliot> Cimi: what kernel?
[14:41] <Cimi> tseliot, ciao alberto, 3.4.0 quantal
[14:42] <tseliot> Cimi: ok, I think we have the same problem with Nvidia. I'll take care of it
[14:43]  * sforshee leaves to take a car to the shop, back in 30 minutes
[14:46] <ppisati> any experience with the alsa trees? i'm looking for a patch, but i can't find it in any tree they have
[14:52]  * tgardner thinks ppisati should consult with david
[14:54] <ppisati> diwic: ^^
[14:54] <apw> tsimpson, Cimi, many fine system.h's have been removed P->Q
[14:55] <diwic> ppisati, how can I help?
[14:56] <ppisati> diwic: any experience with the git alsa tree?
[14:56] <diwic> ppisati, yes
[14:56] <ppisati> diwic: there's a patchset, composed of two patches
[14:56] <ppisati> diwic: the first one was not commited, but the second one was
[14:57] <ppisati> diwic: http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.linux.alsa.devel/96316
[14:57] <ppisati> diwic: i can't find the first one
[14:58] <ppisati> diwic: do you know where they ususally commit?
[14:59] <diwic> ppisati, you might be looking for http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/tiwai/sound.git;a=summary
[15:01] <diwic> ppisati, with the asoc subtree http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/broonie/sound.git;a=summary (look for the tags/heads as master is not updated in this tree it seems like)
[15:06] <ppisati> diwic: ok, found in the asoc tree, thanks
[15:12] <alexbligh> smb, yes, mach-xen is in the SUSE patch set, but is not in the git tree which is the patched version of the kernel, as far as I can tell. Perhaps someone forgot to do a git add :-)
[15:14] <smb> alexbligh, Looking at their source rpm some time ago, patching was part of the rpm build (at least for xen)
[15:19] <alexbligh> smb, it is, but they have two kernel repos, one 'kernel-source' which is just the patches, and one called 'kernel' which is, I think, meant to be a git repo with all the patches applied. It appears to have every patch applied I can find, but missing mach-xen.
[15:19] <alexbligh> (unless I've misunderstood). I think I should be asking this on #suse-kernel!
[15:20] <smb> alexbligh, They likely should know better... :)
[15:24] <smb> herton, bjf, Hm, does this look ok to you?
[15:25] <smb>      linux | 3.2.0-24.37 | precise-updates | source
[15:25] <smb>      linux | 3.2.0-24.38 | precise-security | source
[15:26] <smb> oh...
[15:27] <smb> nm, seems rmadison just got an intermediate state since the publishing was recently
[15:27] <herton> smb, seems -updates is missing the latest
[15:27] <herton> hmm ok
[15:27] <apw> check thats true in the real archive, it may be rmadison
[15:27] <smb> apw, yep
[15:27] <smb> After lp was kind enough to return the history it should be ok
[15:27] <henrix> smb: yeah, the kernel has just been copied to proposed
[15:28] <apw> yeah think thats just cause -security is done first
[15:28] <apw> but if it stayed like that security.u.c gets a caning
[15:28] <smb> funy enough it says updates was done 2m before the other
[15:29] <smb> oh no
[15:29] <tgardner> herton, I noticed that precise is still at 3.2.16. Are you gonna do 3.2.18 before the next upload ?
[15:29] <smb> other way round
[15:30] <herton> tgardner, I think we can update it, precise update being prepared now only have apw's hv fix, after that goes we will do with what we have in master-next
[15:30] <herton> if we were going to use master-next today I would say to wait and update later, but that's not the case
[15:30] <herton> I'll take care of it
[15:31] <tgardner> herton, I kind of like to get stable updates applied to master-next as soon as they are released so we can start smoke testing them in the dailies. I generally boot 'em on at least a couple of boxes.
[15:32] <herton> tgardner, yep, makes sense
[15:32]  * ppisati -> brb
[15:33] <jsalisbury> cking, Interesting bug.  Wireless performance drops off when running on battery vs AC power: bug 991232
[15:33] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 991232 in linux "14e4:432b Regression in wireless performance when on battery power" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/991232
[15:34] <cking> jsalisbury, I will attend to that one
[15:34] <jsalisbury> cking, cool, thanks
[15:42] <cking> jsalisbury, so I don't think that was caused by any of the precise pm changes, it looks like a wl binary module issue to me
[15:42] <jsalisbury> cking, ok
[15:43] <cking> but I will add some notes just to sanity check my assumption :-)
[15:51] <ogasawara> tgardner: I think there were unwanted affects to amd64 after the collapsing of virtual
[15:51] <tgardner> ogasawara, do tell
[15:51] <ogasawara> tgardner: it looks like we're missing modules, eg like the extra's modules are not included
[15:51] <tgardner> apw, ^^
[15:52] <apw> ogasawara, not included in what>
[15:52] <tgardner> ogasawara, yeah, there should be 2 packages, right ?
[15:53] <ogasawara> tgardner, apw: right, for i386 we should have 2 packages, amd64 only 1.  however that 1 package for amd64 seems pretty bare.
[15:53] <apw> no there should be two for both
[15:53] <tgardner> ogasawara, why wouldn't we have 2 for amd64 ?
[15:53] <apw> generic is two halfs, one half effecticly -virtual, and both together -generic
[15:53] <ogasawara> tgardner, apw: oh? well that probably explains what I'm missing
[15:54] <ogasawara> for some reason I had it in my head we only had virtual for i386
[15:54] <tgardner> ogasawara, yeah, there should be an -extra- package for both arches
[15:54] <tgardner> I believe in symmetry
[15:59] <ogasawara> tgardner, apw: just fyi, I've pushed the 3.4 rebased bits to master-next.  it's basically what I intend to upload.  Am just going to do some meta package testing before pulling the trigger.
[15:59] <apw> ogasawara, ack
[16:00] <tgardner> ogasawara, having a look now...
[16:00] <apw> tgardner, i take it you merged the fix for the udebs into my patches ?
[16:01] <tgardner> apw, yep
[16:01] <tgardner> apw, IIRC it was just a simple check to see if -extra- existed and to unpack it if so.
[16:01] <apw> yeah i see it now
[16:08] <smoser> smb, around?
[16:09] <smb> smoser, wassup?
[16:09] <smoser> on ec2 (precise)
[16:09] <smoser> $ echo /dev/disk/by-*
[16:09] <smoser> /dev/disk/by-label /dev/disk/by-path /dev/disk/by-uuid
[16:09] <smoser> absent is 'by-id'
[16:10] <smoser> i think we talked about this one, but dont remember, and only found https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub2/+bug/604335 as a reference for it (it was also broken for virtio)
[16:10] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 604335 in grub2 "grub-pc.postinst script fails to detect virtio vda disk in KVM guest" [High,Triaged]
[16:10] <smoser> i'm fine to open a bug on this, but wanted to know if you knew something right away. i'd open against udev, but it seems maybe kernel related (or xen even)
[16:12] <smb> smoser, Hm, one of those things missing may point to some udev race. Not really remembering to have talked about this. May be the same thing...
[16:12] <smoser> its not race
[16:12] <smb> About opening a new bug, depends on how busy the other already is...
[16:13] <smoser> well the other is fix-released.
[16:13] <smoser> (it was a grub bug dealing with the issue, and virtio is fixed now)
[16:14] <smoser> i'll open a new bug, against kernel, let you figure out if that is where it should be, or if it is valid at all.
[16:14] <smb> smoser, Hm, the bug still is triaged only...
[16:14] <smoser> hm... interesting
[16:15] <smb> smoser, But ok, cannot hurt to open a new bug
[16:15] <smoser> hm.. wait.
[16:15] <smoser> let me check to see if virtio is fixed
[16:18] <smb> smoser, Just wondering a but that I should have had this when installing pv-on-hvm guests...
[16:18] <smb> a bit...
[16:18] <smoser> http://askubuntu.com/questions/80224/does-grub2-require-an-optional-scsi-feature
[16:18] <smoser> that calls serial numbers (which are used for by-id) a "optional feature"
[16:19] <smoser> and it seems that for vda it was at least not implemented at some points
[16:19] <smoser> and might also not be implemented for xen
[16:20] <smoser> verified that in 12.04 guest on 12.04 host (launched via openstack) there is no /dev/by-id
[16:20] <smb> That could be quite likely. Though my machine here it seems also possible to use other "ids" like model name and serial... Not necessarily this would be there for emulated disks either...
[16:22] <smb> smoser, But the real question is whether you also saw the failure they talk of...
[16:22] <smoser> well, i have seen the grub failure.
[16:23] <smoser> which is why i knew of this bug in the bakc of my head.
[16:23] <smoser> but the grub issue is worked around
[16:23] <smb> smoser, I did quite a few installs on hvm using the pv drives...
[16:23] <smoser> somehow, not sure how.
[16:23] <smb> Ah ok...
[16:26] <smb> smoser, Not sure why grub would need the by-id, I thought we use the by-uuid (which is fs based)
[16:28] <smoser> smb, but for identifying where to install aboot loader, block device is important
[16:29] <smoser> (ie, most likely its installed onto /dev/sda, not /dev/sda1 ... the MBR)
[16:32] <smb> smoser, Right, but how would your decision be made simpler by knowing any id? (not knowing exactly what grub2 does but usually tending towards the lowest major/minor it seems)
[16:32] <smoser> smb, my desire for id is not related to grub2
[16:32] <smoser> (and actually, not related to ec2).
[16:33] <smb> Probably you can find /boot and then just drop any partition from the name
[16:33] <smoser> i was thinking of making openstack's "attach volume" able to take a serialnumber input.
[16:33] <smoser> and then it would attach the device with the given serial
[16:33] <smoser> so that outside and inside could agree on which disk was which
[16:34] <smoser> as it is right now, if you attach 2 block devices, there is no way of being certain which device is which.
[16:34] <smb> I guess not without giving it any fs before...
[16:35] <smoser> right. or if you dont know the contents of the block device. (ie, it *has* no fs)
[16:38] <smb> smoser, Ok, so you basically want a new feature. And for that the vendor model method does not work as the disk inside would have a different one (as it can or cannot be a real one). And that said of you have a disk image you would have no by-id usable from outside
[16:44] <smoser> smb, hm...
[16:45] <smb> The more I think about it the less I am positive you can do what you want. I suppose an openstack volume can also be a disk, partition, lv, image file on the host. Having the same id would only be valid for passing on whole disks.
[16:45] <smoser> i think we're misunderstanding each other.
[16:45] <smoser> kvm does support this.
[16:45] <smoser> i just verified.
[16:45] <smoser> vm -m 256 -drive file=disk.img,if=virtio,serial=FOOBAR123 -drive file=seed.img,if=virtio -curses
[16:45] <smoser> kvm -m 256 -drive file=disk.img,if=virtio,serial=FOOBAR123 -drive file=seed.img,if=virtio -curses
[16:46] <smoser> then, inside, i get: virtio-FOOBAR123 -> ../../vda
[16:46] <smoser> so its not really a new feature. but in xen it might be.
[16:47] <smb> Ok, so you assign some serial when creating the guest (at that time but I think I remember libvirt allows to save it persistently)
[16:48] <smoser> well, libvirt does support this, yes. and yeah, it would also keep that with the libvirtxml for that domain
[16:48] <smoser> but anyway.
[16:48] <smoser> so i guess that my only question for you at this point is whether or not xen block has a 'serial' for the block device
[16:49] <smoser> and the, if it did, if we appear to be correctly handling it .  ie, its possible that ec2 is just not providing one.  when none is provided in kvm, none is found in the guest.
[16:50] <smb> So ok, it depends on the abilities of qemu-dm used by xen, the meta data stored for a domain and the xen-blkfront. I cannot say either right now.
[16:50] <smb> I don't remember seeing a serial in example guest configs for xen... but that may be inclomplete
[16:54]  * ppisati -> bails out
[16:56] <smb> smoser, Hm, checking some xen-unstable docs about the disk specification even for xl there does not seem to be any serial like option.
[16:57] <smoser> smb, thanks for looking.
[17:48]  * cking notes that bjf is working tangerine hard
[17:49]  * henrix realised that some time ago :)
[17:49] <bjf> load avg. 2300+
[17:50] <cking> trying for a new record?
[17:50] <bjf> i'm trying to see if i can make it catch fire
[17:51] <cking> it's kinda unproductive to run so many things in parallel isn't it?
[17:52] <cking> swapping a bit
[18:01]  * cking tootles off, back later
[18:11] <bjf> cking, i killed off all my builds, the load avg is still kind of high (1200+)
[18:11] <cking> bjf, it's dropping now, thanks ;-)
[18:16] <_ruben> 2300+ .. heh, nice :)
[18:56]  * jjohansen is afraid he is partly to blame
[19:01] <achiang> jsalisbury: ping
[19:29] <jsalisbury> achiang, pong
[19:37]  * tgardner  -> EOD
[19:37] <achiang> jsalisbury: hi. re: #956845
[19:38] <achiang> jsalisbury: did you write your latest comment by hand or did some bot do it?
[19:38] <achiang> jsalisbury: because i don't think that comment is accurate or relevant
[19:39] <jsalisbury> achiang, looking
[19:42] <jsalisbury> achiang, I posted that due to the request in comment #28 to test the mainline(At the time) kernel.  Comment #29 reports the bug is in the upstream kernel as well.  However, just noticed your comment #36
[19:42] <jsalisbury> achiang, so you think this bug is firmware related and not kernel?
[19:43] <achiang> jsalisbury: right. i think the bug is due to the fact that ubuntu does not distribute proprietary broadcom firmware, and that jockey isn't/can't do the right thing to download it
[19:43] <achiang> jsalisbury: for me, if i extracted the firmware as per my comments, then i get no more lockups
[19:44] <jsalisbury> achiang, ahh, ok.  thanks for the feedback.  I'll update the bug and ask the bug reporter to test your suggestion in #34 again
[19:44] <achiang> jsalisbury: thanks. arguably there's a jockey bug in there, but i don't think it's necessarily related to the kernel.
[19:45] <jsalisbury> achiang, right.  thanks again!
[19:47] <achiang> jsalisbury: ok, thanks. one last thing, the fix Worked For Me, but no clue if it'll be 100% reliable for the other guy
[19:47] <jsalisbury> achiang, ok.  I'll await feedback from him.  If the fix works for him, do you think this is a bug in firmware-b43-installer?
[19:49] <achiang> jsalisbury: perhaps. basically, i've never had luck getting firmware-b43-installer to do the right thing. i don't know if it is supposed to download the firmware i need, or if it is supposed to call the other meta-package, firmware-b43-lpphy-installer
[19:50] <jsalisbury> achiang, ok, thanks
[19:50] <achiang> jsalisbury: only firmware-b43-lpphy-installer seems to download the proper firmware. and even then, it only seems to work if the card is inserted into the machien
[19:50] <achiang> jsalisbury: however, if inserting the card into the machine locks it up... well, you can see the problem there
[19:50] <jsalisbury> achiang, yeah, right
[19:51] <achiang> jsalisbury: it checks to see if the card is inserted before downloading the firmware. if it can't find the card, it refuses to download it. so even if you're plugged into wired ethernet, you can't get the firmware you need
[19:51] <achiang> jsalisbury: the fix then, is to manually (ugh!) download and install the firmware. then you can insert the card without a complete lockup
[19:52] <jsalisbury> achiang, hmm, sounds fun
[19:52] <achiang> jsalisbury: hopefully you can feed this info back to the proper upstream
[19:52] <jsalisbury> achiang, will try to do that
[19:52] <jsalisbury> achiang, thanks for all the info
[19:53] <achiang> jsalisbury: sure. and if you need more clarification via email or something, let me know. i have the hardware for a few more days (before i give it away to someone ;)
[19:53] <jsalisbury> achiang, ok, thanks!
[19:54] <achiang> jsalisbury: in summary, this could be fixed if firmware-b43-lpphy-installer were patched to allow firmware download/installation without the card being inserted. then it would be a quite simple process. 1) connect machine to wired ethernet. 2) apt-get install b43-fwcutter firmware-b43-lpphy-installer 3) insert card and enjoy wifi


[02:05] <nhaines> Aww, my alarm for the meeting apparently didn't set.
[02:05] <nhaines> So it's meeting time!  Let me grab the agenda.
[02:07] <nhaines> #startmeeting
[02:07] <darthrobot> Meeting started Mon Aug  8 02:07:44 2016 UTC.  The chair is nhaines. Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[02:07] <darthrobot> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[02:08] <nhaines> Welcome to the Ubuntu California meeting for August 7th, 2016.
[02:08] <nhaines> The agenda is available at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/16August07
[02:08] <darthrobot> Title: [CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/16August07 - Ubuntu Wiki]
[02:08] <nhaines> There are no agenda items for this meeting.
[02:09] <nhaines> Does anyone have any announcements or other business this week?
[02:09]  * lynorian does not
[02:11] <nhaines> Then our next meeting is August 21st.  Hopefully we'll be able to talk about the Ubuntu release party then.
[02:12] <nhaines> Have a good week, everyone!
[02:12] <nhaines> #endmeeting
[02:12] <darthrobot> Meeting ended Mon Aug  8 02:12:05 2016 UTC.
[02:12] <darthrobot> Minutes:        http://ihas.5cat.com/~darthrobot/ubuntu-us-ca/2016/ubuntu-us-ca.2016-08-08-02.07.moin.txt


[02:25] <CarlFK> is this a ppa I can use in sources.list ?  http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/daily/current/
[02:27] <mwhudson> well
[02:27] <mwhudson> it's not a ppa
[02:27] <mwhudson> or indeed, an archive at all in the debian sense
[02:30] <lifeless> CarlFK: its a git tree isn't it?
[02:30] <CarlFK> i du no.. i saw ppa :)
[07:41] <bullgard4> I originated bug report #https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tilda/+bug/804735. Why does Launchpad tell me: "You are not directly subscribed to this bug's notifications."?
[07:42] <lifeless> bullgard4: presumably because you are not directly subscribed
[07:42] <bullgard4> lifeless: I beg your pardon?
[07:42] <lifeless> whats your LP user id ?
[07:44] <lifeless> bullgard4: ^?
[07:45] <bullgard4> lifeless: I originated bug report #https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tilda/+bug/804735. Why does Launchpad tell me: "You are not directly subscribed to this bug's notifications."? Are yyou able to answer this question?
[07:45] <lifeless> bullgard4: can you answer my question: what is your LP user id ?
[07:45] <bullgard4> lifeless: I will answer your question after you have answered my question.
[07:48] <andersk> What’s the right place to report a user that’s randomly assigning bugs to themself and changing bug statuses (bug 274251, bug 290704, bug 436936, bug 577385, bug 655795, bug 722690, bug 782309, bug 802464)?
[07:50] <lifeless> andersk: here is fine
[07:50] <lifeless> andersk: has anyone trie dto speak with them ? they've been around for at least a year, so this is unusual
[07:52] <andersk> Yeah, repeatedly, see the comments on those bugs.  Bug 436936 is a good example.
[07:53] <lifeless> andersk: oh hangon, who did you mean :)
[07:53] <lifeless> heru or papa*
[07:53] <andersk> Heru.
[07:53] <lifeless> ah
[07:54] <lifeless> right, around for 8 months, but nearly no activity and a sudden burst
[07:54] <andersk> (papukaija is just trying to help, AFAICS.)
[07:54] <lifeless> I will wuspend them
[07:54] <lifeless> done
[07:54] <andersk> In bug 410822 Heru comments “I need to report my ubuntu in work”, which perhaps explains the motivation for the random fiddling.
[07:54] <andersk> Thanks.
[07:55] <lifeless> its sad if our desire to see significant sustained contributions leads to folk doing this
[07:56] <lifeless> OTOH the various onramp and getting started guides don't encourage arbitrary changes like this
[08:36] <lifeless> andersk: could you do me a favour? open a ticket at answers.launchpad.net/launchpad, for tracking
[08:37] <andersk> Sure.
[08:38] <maxb> There already is one
[08:38] <lifeless> oh cool
[08:38] <maxb> https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/163573
[08:39] <maxb> I have no idea what this guy is doing, but he's doing a lot of damage
[08:39] <maxb> And unfortunately it looks like there's a major language barrier issue here
[08:40] <maxb> Based on his comments, he appears to know just enough English to believe he can make himself understood, whilst failing at doing so
[08:50] <maxb> In regards to https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/163656, jasmith77, I believe sinzui has some sort of form letter to tell people about safeguarding their browsers / address books ?
[08:54] <lifeless> probably
[08:54] <lifeless> I'm going to vanish now though
[13:58] <pindonga> hi, a question about launchpad api. Given a bug id, how can I request the corresponding project?
[13:58] <guillemhs> ei
[13:58] <guillemhs> is it possible to link a ppa package to project page on LP?
[14:00] <persia> Not in any semantic way.  You could refernce the project in the PPA description, and reference the PPA in the project description.
[14:00] <guillemhs> ok
[14:01] <guillemhs> in other, i can only link official ubuntu packages, no?
[14:11] <maxb> pindonga: One LP bug may be linked to any number of projects, distributions and distribution source packages
[14:13] <pindonga> maxb, k, as an heuristic, is it ok to use bug.bug_tasks[0].bug_target_name assuming in most cases the bug will be linked to just 1 project?
[14:14] <maxb> That's a bit of a weak assumption
[14:15] <pindonga> maxb in my use case, "normally" a bug is only listed in 1 project, or at least there is 1 "main" project for a bug
[14:15] <pindonga> that's the one I'm interested in getting
[14:16] <maxb> OK - you probably want to try to ignore bugtasks with status Invalid, unless they are the only existing bugtasks
[14:16] <pindonga> k, thx
[19:01] <bazzdee> hi
[19:02] <bazzdee> i just tried to report a bug on launchpad, which did not crash oneiric, but it can't find the report button. maybe i'm blind
[19:28] <tsimpson> bazzdee: use the "ubuntu-bug" command to report bugs, or see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs
[19:40] <komputes> Whats the URL I'm looking for to see all my Mailing List and BugMail subscriptions. looks something likelike https://bugs.launchpad.net/+me/+subscriptions
[19:52] <Ampelbein> komputes: https://bugs.launchpad.net/people/+me/+subscriptions ?
[19:53] <Ampelbein> (although that times out for me with OOPS-2011AP89)
[19:55] <maxb> https://launchpad.net/people/+me/+subscriptions for subscriptions to individual bugs
[19:55] <maxb> https://launchpad.net/people/+me/+structural-subscriptions for subscriptions to bugmail for projects or packages
[19:55] <maxb> https://launchpad.net/people/+me/+participation for subscriptions to mailinglists
[19:56] <maxb> https://code.launchpad.net/people/+me/+subscribedbranches for subscriptions to branches
[19:59] <komputes> Ampelbein: thx, but this shows me all the bugs, I just want bugmail for projects :(
[19:59] <komputes> Ampelbein: and mailing LP lists
[20:03] <TDJACR> I've been having trouble logging into launchpad and I've emailed RT (as per a representative's directions) without luck. How should I proceed?
[20:23] <maxb> TDJACR: These days Launchpad no longer manages user authentication itself, that being delegated to the Ubuntu SSO Service, managed by a different team. #canonical-isd is their IRC channel
[20:24] <TDJACR> maxb: Thank you sir, very appreciated
[20:24] <TDJACR> maxb: How do I request an account be closed?
[20:24] <maxb> What do you mean by closed, and are you more interested in the Launchpad or Ubuntu SSO aspects here?
[20:25] <maxb> Launchpad allows a user to deactivate their Launchpad account, however this will not deactivate the SSO account.
[20:27] <TDJACR> maxb: They are two seperate issues, I don't need to contact SSO for the account closure. To sum up, I had two accounts, one which I am locked out of (which I need access to) and another I want to remove
[20:27] <TDJACR> How do I get rid of the lp portion?
[20:28] <maxb> When you say you have two accounts, do you actually mean you have two separate Ubuntu SSO accounts *and* two Launchpad accounts?
[20:29] <maxb> Launchpad accounts can be merged. This is usually the best approach for duplicate accounts in Launchpad
[20:34] <TDJACR> maxb: I had two SSO accounts and two LP accounts (connected to the two SSO) for some reason, I can only log into one of the SSO and Launchpad accounts, the one I don't need. I'm locked out of the other one, which I used to register with on other sites using OpenId
[20:36] <maxb> I see. Then the starting point is definitely to work on getting the access to the important SSO account restored
[20:37] <maxb> After that has occurred, it would likely be sensible to merge the unwanted LP account into the wanted one
[20:38] <TDJACR> maxb: thank you!
[20:38] <maxb> I would not necessarily expect it to be a good time of day to find active people in #canonical-isd, but it is definitely worth asking there
[20:38] <maxb> If you have not already done so, you should also fill in https://forms.canonical.com/sso-support/
[20:38] <TDJACR> I wonder why rt (as canonical told me to contact ) never got back to me
[20:39] <TDJACR> maxb: that form response told me that they could do nothing except tell me to email rt
[20:39] <maxb> The appropriate lines of communication for user SSO problems seem to be annoyingly very blurry
[20:39] <TDJACR> Which iI did to no avail
[20:39] <maxb> Hm, that is quite poor
[20:41] <TDJACR> maxb: Unfortunately yeah, not sure what went wrong, I have some error IDs and so
[20:41] <TDJACR> Does 2011canistellalaunchpad7 mean anything
[20:42] <TDJACR> In the launchpad login service?
[20:42] <maxb> Mention the error IDs in #canonical-isd - if someone is around, or is able to view the conversation later, they will be able to cross-reference them with activity on the servers
[20:49] <TDJACR> maxb when is a good time in the channel
[20:52] <maxb> London business hours are likely to be ok. American ones too, except it's an American holiday today
[20:53] <TDJACR> maxb: Yeah, I'm from the states. When are London business hours?
[20:54] <maxb> 5 - 8 hours before yours :-)
[21:01] <TDJACR> Hehe okay :)
[21:02] <TDJACR> Thanks
[23:54] <zyga>   Uploading lava-dashboard_0.5.2-0ubuntu0~zyga4_source.changes: 2k/3k550 Changes file must be signed with a valid GPG signature: Verification failed 3 times: ['General error', 'General error', 'General error'] : Permission denied.
[23:54] <zyga> I get this when dputting
[23:54] <zyga> Permission denied?
[23:57] <lifeless> zyga: bug 798957
[23:57] <zyga> lifeless, ah, you are right, I can see email from launchpad now, thanks!