[00:13] <magic_ninja_work> has anyone else had poor battery life? I've just installed a brand new battery. When I installed ubuntu on a 3 year old battery and running on only the integrated intel GPU I would get around 7-10 hours. Now I'm getting 5 with a brand new battery.
[00:15] <dunkin> LjL, Tomreyn, oerheks: https://allthings.how/how-to-install-windows-11-on-legacy-bios-without-secure-boot-or-tpm-2-0/
[00:15] <tomreyn> magic_ninja_work: that could be due to the fact that there are different computers comsuming different amounts of power, and different battreries providing different charges.
[00:16] <tomreyn> dunkin: i don't think a lot of people here will want to ;)
[00:18] <magic_ninja_work> tomreyn, well, I did get an official OEM replacement with the same part number and same capacity.
[00:19] <magic_ninja_work> I'm just not sure what would have changed that suddenly caused my battery life to tank from version 19.10
[00:20] <tomreyn> maybe using not just the integrated gpu?
[00:20] <magic_ninja_work> I'm on the integrated GPU with the nvidia 960m disabled
[00:20] <tomreyn> powertop may hint on how to save power
[00:21] <tomreyn> i think there's another tool which does similar, but i forgot its name
[00:21] <magic_ninja_work> https://i.imgur.com/GICYdna.png
[00:22] <magic_ninja_work> tlp, but I spent a lot of time configuring it wihtout much noticable difference.
[00:22] <tomreyn> intel cpu bugfixes would also increase power consumption
[00:22] <magic_ninja_work> intel cpu bugfixes?
[00:22] <tomreyn> "spectre / meltdown"
[00:23] <magic_ninja_work> I see.
[00:24] <tomreyn> you could try to boot with https://make-linux-fast-again.com/ and see how the values compare
[00:25] <magic_ninja_work> is that a kernel parameter?
[00:25] <magic_ninja_work> I see, so it turns off those bug fixes. Do those bugs require physical access?
[00:26] <LjL> dunkin, thanks
[00:26] <tomreyn> those are kernel parameters. mitigations=off should actually suffice by now, i think.
[00:27]  * LjL shudders
[00:28] <oerheks> if that bootline would work that way, you could use more power than you use now..
[00:28] <tomreyn> magic_ninja_work: exploiting the cpu vulnerabilities does not require physical access. it usually requires the ability for the attacker to run code on the system (access to an insufficiently secured sandbox could be sufficient)
[00:29] <oerheks> i suspect a newer HWE kernel 5.11
[00:29] <magic_ninja_work> might be best too just test and leave it on then
[00:33] <magic_ninja_work> its nuts, cpu is using 13.5W and I'm not doing much of anything.
[00:33] <magic_ninja_work> less than 5% cpu usage
[00:34] <oerheks> what makes you think that is nuts?
[00:35] <magic_ninja_work> because something has changed. I've been running ubuntu for 4 years on this liptop without issue.
[00:35] <magic_ninja_work> Now, with a new OEM battery, I'm still draining it quickly.
[00:35] <magic_ninja_work> Makes me wonder what has changed in the last few months.
[01:12] <Orchid> Hello. Service PackageKit needs restart but i can't restart it. It says "Unit packagekit.service not found". Using Ubuntu 21.04. Any ideas?
[01:14] <oerheks> why does  Service PackageKit needs restart?
[01:58] <tomreyn> Orchid: i assume it's a systemd user service
[01:58] <tomreyn> systemctl restart --user packagekit   or something?
[02:03] <Bashing-om> Orchid: ' systemctl status packagekit.service ' ?
[02:11] <Orchid> bashing-om: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/F5CTdPMtrs/
[02:13] <tomreyn> hmm, active but no service file, Orchid, what have you done to it?
[02:25] <leftyfb> Orchid: ( cat /etc/os-release ; apt-cache policy packagekit ; ls -l /lib/systemd/system/packagekit.service ) | nc termbin.com 9999
[03:46] <pycurious> is it safe to "do-release-upgrade" on a tmux remotely?
[03:59] <mybalzitch> if not it'll launch screen
[05:25] <voltagex[m]> Any idea why do-release-upgrade is exiting with no visible errors? https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/t6GTsVWMwg/
[05:28] <guiverc> voltagex[m], check for 3rd party packages (PPA etc) as some (eg. oibaf graphic drivers) prevent release-upgrade & check logs (see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingUpdateManager)
[05:33] <voltagex[m]> guiverc: no good - https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/rKvbr4B9BX/
[05:36] <guiverc> voltagex[m], what release are you on?  20.04/focal?   if so you've missed the 20.10 upgrade, and 22.04 upgrade doesn't exist until 22.04.1 has been released (well into the future)
[05:37] <voltagex[m]> ah. lol, right.
[05:38] <voltagex[m]> why not actually say that in an error message then?
[05:39] <guiverc> that I can't tell you sorry..  more detail maybe seen if you file a bug report
[05:40] <guiverc> (filing a bug report lets your sources, system details & more be visible)
[07:25] <JoeLlama> I am disgusted with memory leaks in ubuntu (mostly browsers)
[07:25] <JoeLlama> learning how to deal
[07:26] <JoeLlama> it's sick when you run outta ram :(
[07:26] <JoeLlama> ?end rant
[07:26] <lotuspsychje> JoeLlama: falkon browser to the rescue
[07:26] <JoeLlama> oh? any good lotuspsychje?
[07:26] <lotuspsychje> yeah its fast & lightweight
[07:27] <lotuspsychje> brave is also rocket fast
[07:27] <JoeLlama> hrm works with everything?
[07:27] <JoeLlama> yeah brave was a little wet behind the ears last time I used it a year ago or so
[07:27] <JoeLlama> bertter now?
[07:27] <lotuspsychje> no, FF & chromium are still the winners, but for some regular browsing it works pretty good
[07:27] <lotuspsychje> test falkon out, see if you like
[07:28] <JoeLlama> okay
[07:28] <lotuspsychje> !info falkon
[07:28] <JoeLlama> I get LOTs of memory leaks in FF and chrome :(
[07:28] <JoeLlama> I modded FF and it got better though
[07:28] <JoeLlama> but if you keep opening and closing FF you end up losing memory
[07:29] <ThinkT510> if you are not already running KDE then falkon will pull in quite a few dependancies
[07:29] <JoeLlama> hrm
[07:29] <JoeLlama> I am mostly running lubuntu and xubuntu
[07:29] <lotuspsychje> ThinkT510: im on gnome, falkon works pretty well here
[07:30] <JoeLlama> hrm? okay
[07:30] <JoeLlama> I run many many old computers
[07:30] <JoeLlama> I have a LOT of old computers... laptops
[07:30] <JoeLlama> piles
[07:30] <JoeLlama> when I wear one out I shread it and use parts from others to make new laptops
[07:30] <JoeLlama> I am a laptop pig
[07:32] <ThinkT510> I didn't say it wouldn't work, I just said it will require more things to be installed
[07:33] <JoeLlama> hrm ok
[08:38] <Guest70> hi
[08:38] <Guest70> is there any source that i can learn ubuntu terminal commands basically?,
[08:41] <Guest52> hi
[08:41] <matsaman> hi
[08:42] <Guest52> is there any website that i can learn ubuntu terminal command basically?,
[08:42] <EriC^^> !tldp | Guest52
[08:43] <matsaman> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SystemAdministration
[09:28] <Kill-Animals> HELP
[09:28] <Kill-Animals> MY program just ran a rm -r * command on my home directory
[09:29] <TJ-> Kill-Animals: best unmount the file-system ASAP then. Hope you have aback-up
[09:29] <Kill-Animals> Im on a laptop
[09:29] <Kill-Animals> no backup
[09:29] <Kill-Animals> ext 4
[09:29] <Kill-Animals> whats the program that sifts through to find file signatures and restructure them?
[09:31] <TJ-> unmount the file-system to begin with to prevent any more writes. Then first try extundelete. After that testdisk/photorec tooling may be able to reconstruct something
[09:31] <Kill-Animals> how?
[09:31] <Kill-Animals> how do i unmount my active filesystem?
[09:31] <TJ-> make a copy of the file-system for working on though, don't change the original in case you cause further damage
[09:31] <Kill-Animals> im on a laptop with no capability of backup
[09:31] <TJ-> Kill-Animals: shutdown and reboot with a LiveISO in 'Try' mode
[09:33] <Kill-Animals> fuuug. I have no way to get this.
[09:34] <Kill-Animals> I still have stuff in memory. Im trying to save it but its not writing to disk
[09:34] <Kill-Animals> should I just shut down then?
[09:34] <geirha> this is how you learn to do backups
[09:34] <TJ-> if you have programs running with filse open you can recover those files
[09:35] <TJ-> Kill-Animals: you'll need to be in a terminal, with root
[09:35] <Kill-Animals> okay this is an internal laptop ssd. should I boot off a usb and go through it?
[09:36] <Kill-Animals> I better shut down now I guess.
[09:36] <Kill-Animals> Fukkkk!
[09:37] <Mekaneck> Kill-Animals: mind the language
[09:40] <TJ-> Kill-Animals: this will identify all still-open files under /home/
[09:40] <TJ-> Kill-Animals: for n in /proc/[0-9]*/fd; do for fd in $n/*; do path="$(readlink -e $fd)"; if [ "${path/*home*/yes}" = "yes" ]; then echo $fd $path; fi; done; done
[09:41] <TJ-> Kill-Animals: you should "sudo -i" before running that, just to avoid error messages
[09:41] <TJ-> Kill-Animals: if it identifies files you want to rescue then you'll need to individually salvage them, and we can tell you how to do that
[09:42] <TJ-> looks like they left prematurely
[09:47] <Nitrousoxide> wow I've never seen an `rm -rf /` (or similar) in the wild
[09:51] <TJ-> it wasn't that, it was in $HOME
[09:51] <Nitrousoxide> (or similar)
[09:52] <TJ-> I have - stray scripts accidentially executed in the wrong directory (Makefiles that have a clean: target for example and generally do a "rm -rf "
[09:53] <Nitrousoxide> yea I totally see how it happens and I don't put myself above doing that accidentally, to be honest.
[09:53] <Nitrousoxide> I don't really hang around IRC that frequently though, so there's that
[10:33] <devhelper> whats happened with freenode, guys?
[10:39] <akossh> devhelper: long story, it belongs more to #ubuntu-offtopic . but in short, there was some problem with the korean crown prince
[10:54] <akselmo> hi, who do i contact if i want a specific quirk to kernel? i have no knowledge of kernel programming, i just have an issue with my headset that apparently needs this quirk to sound/usb/quirks-table.h
[10:55] <akselmo> here's a link to what im talking about https://github.com/szszoke/sennheiser-gsp670-pulseaudio-profile/issues/13#issuecomment-891662521
[11:57] <acebrianjuan> Hi, if I download a .deb for a package that I need to install on a machine that has no internet connection, will the .deb contain all the necessary dependencies too? Or will I have to download each dependency manually as well?
[11:57] <acebrianjuan> Thanks
[12:01] <bailsman> acebrianjuan: it does not contain dependencies.
[12:01] <guiverc> acebrianjuan, it may, it may not.. if it's a package of wallpapers it likely won't have any deps, but most packages do have them (which need to be downloaded)
[12:02] <bailsman> If it doesn't have dependencies, the deb still doesn't contain any dependencies, but it will work because there weren't any to begin with.
[12:02] <bailsman> Another way it could work is if the dependencies are already installed on the destination machine.
[12:03] <acebrianjuan> understood, thanks folks
[12:03] <acebrianjuan> The package I need to install is FUSE
[12:04] <acebrianjuan> So I should probably do something along the lines of: https://ostechnix.com/download-packages-dependencies-locally-ubuntu/
[12:05] <guiverc> https://packages.ubuntu.com/hirsute/fuse  lists deps (assuming hirsute; you didn't say)
[12:05] <acebrianjuan> I need this for Debian buster
[12:05] <guiverc> acebrianjuan, we only support Ubuntu and flavors of Ubuntu here, you're off-topic
[12:06] <acebrianjuan> I understand, yes
[12:06] <guiverc> but Debian does contain the same resources as the page I just showed
[12:07] <acebrianjuan> ok, I'll go ask in the right place
[12:07] <acebrianjuan> Thanks for the help
[12:08]  * guiverc notices same deps; just older versions
[12:41] <shine_magic> регистрация ника
[12:41] <lotuspsychje> !ru | shine_magic
[12:51] <shine_magic> !help
[12:52] <lotuspsychje> ask your ubuntu question here in the channel and in english please shine_magic
[12:56] <shine_magic> Attempt to register
[12:57] <lotuspsychje> !register | shine_magic
[13:00] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[13:03] <shine_magic> uau
[13:07] <shine_magic> thanks
[13:08] <lotuspsychje> welcome shine_magic type /list for the libera channel list
[13:09] <rud0lf> list is deprecated
[13:09] <rud0lf> use /msg alis help list
[13:09] <lotuspsychje> not here on libera rud0lf
[13:09] <lotuspsychje> works like a charm
[13:09] <rud0lf> but it's suggested to use alis service
[13:28] <JoeLlama> what is a decent font to use with IRC windows?  Seems like I don't recognize most of the fonts used on linux systems
[13:29] <JoeLlama> eh I found one :)
[13:33] <pawelpa> hi
[13:33] <Mekaneck> pawelpa: hi
[13:52] <ice9> will the new installer in 21.10 encrypt the entire disk including /boot?
[13:53] <tomreyn> !ubuntu-next | ice9
[13:53] <leftyfb> !ubuntu+1 | ice9
[13:54] <tomreyn> thanks leftyfb
[14:03] <hirnpfirsich> Hello, a few weeks ago a notebook i support started to have graphics glitches after an upgrade (no release upgrade). I hot glued it via booting into the old kernel. Unfortunately the problem did not go away after a few weeks and more kernel upgrades. I do not remember which version was the last to work (but i think still the 5.11.0 branch). So today I tried to narrow down the problem to report a
[14:03] <hirnpfirsich> bug. I am on 21.04 with kernel 5.11.0-25-generic. Everytime I try to go past 5.11.0-22 wifi and ethernet dies plus the max resolution will be stuck at 640x480. Lenovo Flex 2-15 with an integrated intel graphics card. Any thoughts ? Thank you all so much ! :)
[14:06] <leftyfb> hirnpfirsich: apt-cache policy linux-modules-5.11.0-25-generic linux-modules-extra-5.11.0-25-generic | nc termbin.com 9999
[14:07] <TJ-> hirnpfirsich: can you pastebin the kernel log? "pastebinit <( journalctl -k)" for an affected kernel. If not currently booted into one, you can find one with "journalctl --list-boots" then do "journalctl -b -X " where X is the previous boot indiex
[14:12] <hirnpfirsich> TJ-: sure thing. Currently booted into one. https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/TntxqTz5Hb/
[14:15] <hirnpfirsich> leftyfb: There you go: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/JRRZkxdvgv/
[14:15] <TJ-> hirnpfirsich: tip: replace "quiet" with "debug systemd.log_level=info" on the kernel command line to gather more detail
[14:17] <tomreyn> latest bios (version to pick depends on cpu, this is for the i3-4030U haswell family cpu): https://pcsupport.lenovo.com/de/en/products/laptops-and-netbooks/flex-series/flex-2-15-notebook-lenovo/20405/downloads/ds101193-bios-update-for-windows-7-64-bit-windows-81-64-bit-flex-2-14-flex-2-15
[14:17] <hirnpfirsich> TJ-: thanks for the tip. Should i do that right now ?
[14:17] <TJ-> hirnpfirsich: when did it last fail? lets try to find the log that covers that
[14:19] <nnnnnn> https://lubuntu.net has broken download links
[14:20] <hirnpfirsich> TJ-: constantly. There are weard lines running across the screen. Or the screen starts flickering out of the blue. Also happens pre Wayland. While plymouth still displays the splash screen. Or what did you mean ?
[14:20] <tomreyn> nnnnnn: the official website is lubuntu.me
[14:20] <tomreyn> nnnnnn: there is also #lubuntu
[14:20] <nnnnnn> https://www.deadlinkchecker.com/website-dead-link-checker.asp broken download links refer to ubuntu.com
[14:21] <TJ-> hirnpfirsich: you said wifi and ethernet dies. If we know the date/time we can grab the logs from around that period to find clues
[14:21] <tomreyn> nnnnnn: thanks, but i don't think anyone here manages lubuntu.net, so we cannot affect which urls they put on their site
[14:21] <TJ-> nnnnnn: try /join #lubuntu
[14:22] <nnnnnn> thank you
[14:22] <TJ-> hirnpfirsich: but, the symptoms you're describing sound like a power failure issue of some sort since it affects so many different components
[14:24] <nnnnnn> has anyone tried Ventoy is an open source tool to create bootable USB drive for ISO/WIM/IMG/VHD(x)/EFI files.? it is an excellent program that allows multiple linux iso to function on a single usb drive
[14:25] <nnnnnn> https://www.ventoy.net/en/index.html
[14:25] <leftyfb> nnnnnn: sorry, but ventoy isn't an officially supported application here.
[14:26] <leftyfb> nnnnnn: this is an ubuntu support channel. Feel free to chat in #ubuntu-offtopic
[14:27] <nnnnnn> ok thank you
[14:28] <hirnpfirsich> TJ-: i know :( But i am very certain this is a software / firmware thing. No problems pre upgrade and also no problems after the downgrade. Also no glitches in the UEFI / Firmware menus. Of course this is not very scientific. If i could boot into pre 5.11.0-22 kernels without other issues i could at least give you a certain kernel version. Do i have to downgrade the firmware as well ?
[14:30] <hirnpfirsich> TJ-: what other components do you mean ?
[14:31] <TJ-> hirnpfirsich: find a log from the time the wifi/ethernet last failed. you can get some idea of which kernel versions were started at what dates/times with "journalctl  --grep 'Linux version' "
[14:31] <nnnnnn> hirnpfirsich, i suggest using a livecd or liveusb and doing a memorytest
[14:32] <nnnnnn> https://askubuntu.com/questions/591488/how-do-i-run-memtest86
[14:39] <ltorhavco> can some give me or direct me how I can get the wget link I can use to install xampp in ubuntu server
[14:40] <leftyfb> !xampp | ltorhavco
[14:43] <ltorhavco> merci!
[14:44] <hirnpfirsich> TJ-: sorry. missed some of your earlier messages. "journalctl --grep" helped me to find out which kernel version used to work. 5.11.0-18. If I try to boot that one now wifi and ethernet disappears and the resolution degregates. But no weard glitches. I know for a fact that this kernel version used to work just fine. Do i need to downgrade more stuff ?
[14:44] <ice9> suddenly the lock screen color is black, its not purple, any idea?
[14:45] <hirnpfirsich> nnnnnn: thx for the tip. Will do :)
[14:47] <TJ-> hirnpfirsich: sounds more and more like a hardware failure
[14:47] <TJ-> hirnpfirsich: without seeing the log entries when those devices disappear we can't help much more
[14:48] <hirnpfirsich> TJ-: but hardware failures suck :( :D I can send you kernel logs from the working 5.11.0-18 and the broken 5.11.0-18
[14:48] <lotuspsychje> ice9: are you still asking for 21.10?
[14:51] <TJ-> hirnpfirsich: the broken one is the one we want
[14:53] <hirnpfirsich> TJ-: one broken 5.11.0-18 coming right up: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/JB62WNdtvc/
[14:58] <TJ-> hirnpfirsich:are you dual booting this system with Windows?
[14:58] <hirnpfirsich> TJ-: no
[15:05] <TJ-> hirnpfirsich: the only difference I can see is, when Ethernet doesn't work with 5.11.0-18-generic the r8169 module doesn't attempt to load.  I excluded the kernel logs containing 'wlp2s0' from the first pastebin (because of the mac adresses). This is the full kernel log (sorry for that!) https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/txhBxBKWcd/. It's an "02:00.0 Network controller: Qualcomm Atheros QCA9565 / AR9565 Wireless Network Adapter (rev 01)". Allright. Then i will try to hunt downt the r8169 kernel module
[15:13] <TJ-> hirnpfirsich: the r8169 drives the PCI device pci 0000:03:00.0: [10ec:8168] type 00 class 0x020000
[15:17] <TJ-> hirnpfirsich: nothing there with any clues
[15:18] <TJ-> hirnpfirsich: both the r8169 and ath9k show up there, no problems
[15:20] <hirnpfirsich> TJ-: that matches the output of lspci for the ethernet adapter. r8169.ko exists for -25 and -22 but not -18 .... But "linux-modules-5.11.0-18-generic" is listed as installed. I'll try to reinstall the package and also check the ath9k module
[15:23] <hirnpfirsich> TJ-: same thing for ath9k.ko. Have I installed the wrong kernel package for downgrading ?. I thought that "linux-image-5.11.0-18-generic" was the meta package
[15:29] <TJ-> hirnpfirsich: it depends on the -modules package, installs only the kernel itself
[15:33] <hirnpfirsich> TJ-: i reinstalled both packages via "apt-get install --reinstall linux-modules-5.11.0-18-generic linux-image-5.11.0-18-generic". But still no ath9k.ko or r8169.ko file in the modules directory for the -18 kernel. Am i missing something ?
[15:36] <ioria> hirnpfirsich, is linux-modules-extra-xxx installed ?
[15:38] <TJ-> hirnpfirsich: ^^^ that'll be the problem since that is where r8169 lives. That is only pulled in by a dependency in linux-image-generic, which only depends on the latest current kernel, which explains why you missed it since you were installing an older kernel
[15:38] <ioria> hirnpfirsich, replace xxx with the kernel ver you want to install (e.g. linux-modules-extra-5.11.0-18-generic)
[15:39] <TJ-> strange how the lowlatency versions don't have a modules-extra
[15:39] <hirnpfirsich> ioria: that did the trick! Rebooting and crossing my fingers
[15:40] <ioria> hirnpfirsich, i also guess you miss the headers (but that's another problem)
[15:55] <hirnpfirsich> TJ & ioria: 5.11.0-18 now works again. Thank you so much! With -18 the graphic glitches just went away. Smells for me like a kernel regression. Should i open a bug report for that ?
[15:56] <TJ-> hirnpfirsich: so the glitches occur with -25 but no -18 ?
[15:56] <hirnpfirsich> TJ-: and with -22
[15:56] <ioria> hirnpfirsich, sure you can; i suggest you try again the current 21.04 kernel maybe with a custom xorg.conf
[15:57] <lotuspsychje> hirnpfirsich: i would look in the existing recent kernel bugs first, we noticing a lot of 5.11 bugs lately
[16:00] <hirnpfirsich> ioria: isn't 5.11.0-25 the current kernel for 21.04 ? Also the glitches start before X or Wayland while plymouth displays it's fancy loading circle
[16:01] <TJ-> hirnpfirsich: only a few changes; you could do a git-bisect  https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/PdH35RsQQP/
[16:02] <hirnpfirsich> lotuspsychje: in launchpad not upstream, right ?
[16:04] <lotuspsychje> hirnpfirsich: yeah launchpad, we are watching #ubuntu-bugs-announce its raining 5.11 bugs lately, try on package linux and sort newest first
[16:04] <ioria> hirnpfirsich, you got glitches 'before' X starts ?
[16:04] <TJ-> hirnpfirsich: could be the fix for this has broken yours. This was added in -22 Bug #1925685
[16:05] <TJ-> hirnpfirsich: applies to 5.11 too
[16:06] <TJ-> note the SRU caveat "Although this solves the problem for us and has been confirmed to work with the Intel developers that developed this patch, it could cause another display type to have problems. This is unlikely as it has been vetted by Intel and by the mainline Linux kernel developers."
[16:06] <hirnpfirsich> TJ-: intriguing. I'll have a look at how difficult it is to build a custom kernel using your sources. Always wanted to use 'git bisect' on the kernel :D
[16:06] <TJ-> hirnpfirsich: re-open that bug report and add your kernel log and description of the issue you have
[16:07] <TJ-> hirnpfirsich: that bug was 'fixed' by commit e420561d9f28ccd65aaef65c245d60d3bacf3289
[16:07] <hirnpfirsich> ioria: yes. Before! Wayland starts (unity and the login manager use wayland at this point, right ?)
[16:07] <TJ-> hirnpfirsich: being the last-but-one in the patches against the i915 driver
[16:08] <ioria> hirnpfirsich, unity ?
[16:09] <hirnpfirsich> ioria: what was your default display / window manager called again ?
[16:09] <ioria> hirnpfirsich, gdm3 / gnome-shell
[16:09] <ioria> hirnpfirsich, btw, yes, probably deeper than a xorg issue
[16:10] <TJ-> hirnpfirsich: hmmm, that bug was claimed to be fixed in 5.11.0-20.21 for Impish, but - 5.11.0-22.23 for hirsute
[16:10] <PeGaSuS> Hello guys. I have absolutely no idea why this is happening: https://imgur.com/YJrXzt7.png
[16:10] <PeGaSuS> any idea of how to fiw this?
[16:10] <PeGaSuS> fix*
[16:12] <mybalzitch> do you have grub/grub2 installed?
[16:13] <TJ-> PeGaSuS: is that on Xubuntu?
[16:13] <PeGaSuS> mybalzitch: I have no idea. it's basically new install from Kimsufi (it's a remote machine) running Ubuntu 20.04
[16:13] <PeGaSuS> TJ-: ^ :D
[16:14] <TJ-> PeGaSuS: looks like an EFI shim is to be installed but the grub-efi tooling is not finding an EFI-System Partition. Check the system booted in EFI mode, not BIOS
[16:15] <PeGaSuS> how can I check that?
[16:15] <hirnpfirsich> ioria: thanks for the clarification :)
[16:16] <TJ-> PeGaSuS: "journalctl -k --grep efi" and you should see a lot of related messages about EFI facilities
[16:16] <hirnpfirsich> TJ-: so reopen it is ? I am a bit intimidated by that thing
[16:17] <TJ-> hirnpfirsich: well that or create a new issue but then you might not get much attention. Re-opening an apparently fixed issue triggers alarm bells :)
[16:17] <TJ-> hirnpfirsich: if you want to do a git-bisect first to prove it is that exact patch feel free
[16:18] <PeGaSuS> TJ-: this is what I get: https://termbin.com/ivxf
[16:18] <TJ-> hirnpfirsich: looks like it'd only need 3 builds with bisect
[16:19] <TJ-> PeGaSuS: so, not booted in EFI mode. Therefore, how are you managing to install shim-signed? what have you been up to!?
[16:19] <PeGaSuS> TJ-: I've done nothing special. just reinstalled the machine, and now when updating that happened
[16:20] <TJ-> "done nothing" ..." just reinstalled" ... errrm, that's hardly nothing
[16:20] <hirnpfirsich> TJ-: Alright. I'll collect my thoughts and start the bisect soon~ish. Thank you all so much ! :)
[16:21] <TJ-> PeGaSuS: so you've managed to re-install whilst the system iis live and has been running since 2021-07-21 ?
[16:21] <PeGaSuS> no. that is when it was reinstalled though
[16:22] <TJ-> PeGaSuS: you need to figure out why shim-signed is installed since for BIOS mode it is useless, and it expects other EFI specific tooling which won't exist. That explains the error message you see
[16:23] <PeGaSuS> that's the problem, since I have no idea of what's going on
[16:24] <TJ-> was this current issue triggered by an "apt upgrade" ?
[16:25] <PeGaSuS> TJ-: yes, it was
[16:25] <TJ-> PeGaSuS: find out what other EFI related packages may be installed "apt list --installed '*efi*' "
[16:28] <PeGaSuS> TJ-: this is the output: https://termbin.com/pf4g
[16:33] <TJ-> PeGaSuS: show us "pastebinit <( lsblk; sudo blkid; apt list --installed '*grub*' ) "
[16:34] <PeGaSuS> TJ-: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/Nd8gZhksxp/
[16:37] <TJ-> PeGaSuS: that confirms the system started in BIOS mode, and that the 'disk' (sda) isn't partitioned for EFI at all
[16:37] <TJ-> PeGaSuS: not sure how you managed that
[16:38] <PeGaSuS> TJ-: nor do I. I'm considering on reinstalling the machine again though
[16:39] <TJ-> PeGaSuS: how precisely did you perform the reinstall? presumably from an ISO installer image which must have booted in EFI mode if it installed the system in EFI mode, but on restart somehow managed to boot in BIOS mode. Most likely the prior install was BIOS mode and the GRUB bootloader files to do that remained in place
[16:40] <PeGaSuS> TJ-: via their webpanel, although I didn't stopped the machine before reinstalling
[16:41] <TJ-> PeGaSuS: it might be recoverable - removing those efi packages and installing "grub-pc"
[16:42] <PeGaSuS> TJ-: could you just give me the exact commands please?
[16:42] <TJ-> it's not the simple!
[16:43] <TJ-> PeGaSuS: at any point it could 'blow up' and need a lot of wrestling. Possibly it might only need "apt install grub-pc" and that'll remove the efi packages and then do a new BIOS-mode grub-install
[16:43] <TJ-> But then again it might break something else
[16:44] <PeGaSuS> I'll try it in a bit, after backing up some important data
[16:52] <PeGaSuS> TJ-: how good or bad does this looks: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/NNTGRBx5SJ/
[16:52] <eelstrebor> anyone know why there is a delay in my audio? i see the person talking but it takes a few seconds before i hear anything. it doesn't appear to be a sync problem. sometimes the audio gets noisy also. ubuntu 20.04, nvidia GeForce GTX 1050 Ti
[16:54] <TJ-> PeGaSuS: looks promising. Now follow up with "update-grub"
[16:54] <TJ-> eelstrebor: depends on what the source is?
[16:55] <PeGaSuS> TJ-: so far seems good? https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/9ryYfRgfwx/
[16:56] <TJ-> PeGaSuS: on the face of it, yes, that looks correct
[16:57] <PeGaSuS> i'll update if I run into any issues though. also, I've just rebooted the machine and "# [ -d /sys/firmware/efi ] && echo UEFI || echo BIOS" returns BIOS still
[16:58] <PeGaSuS> I guess we'll know when I need to "apt update" again
[16:59] <TJ-> PeGaSuS: you may need to do "apt autoremove" to get rid of unused packages
[17:03] <PeGaSuS> TJ-: did that already :D lets see how it behaves. otherwise I can always reinstall the machine, since the *important* data is already backed up
[17:03] <raxor2k> I have a react application up and running using "npm start", and it works. But as soon as i close the terminal, the application also stops. What can i do ?
[17:05] <PeGaSuS> raxor2k: you can use screen/tmux or even a systemd script
[17:05] <raxor2k> PeGasus: pardon ?
[17:07] <PeGaSuS> raxor2k: screen/tmux allow you to keep applications running even when you close the terminal
[17:08] <raxor2k> hmm okei
[17:09] <PeGaSuS> raxor2k: are you running the react application as root?
[17:10] <PeGaSuS> also for those kind of questions, since this is not an Ubuntu bug/issue, the #linux channel would be more suitable
[17:11] <raxor2k> pegasus: yes im running the app as root
[17:12] <TJ-> raxor2k: maybe this will help https://nodesource.com/blog/running-your-node-js-app-with-systemd-part-1/
[17:12] <PeGaSuS> unless really needed, you should NOT run any app as root. that might bring security issues.
[17:12] <raxor2k> TJ- : thanks
[17:13] <raxor2k> pegasus : ye i know, this is just a test server, so no worries
[17:13] <TJ-> raxor2k: except, create your .service file in /etc/systemd/system/ not under /lib/systemd/
[17:14] <raxor2k> TJ: maybe i should just consider deploying the app with docker ..
[17:14] <raxor2k> this it will be much easier
[17:14] <PeGaSuS> raxor2k: creating a systemd unit is also easy
[17:16] <raxor2k> pegasus: doesnt seem like that.
[17:17] <TJ-> raxor2k: what? about 6 lines in a .service file
[17:20] <raxor2k> tj: example in dpaste.de ?
[17:21] <PeGaSuS> raxor2k: you just need to create a my_app.service under /etc/systemd/system with something like this: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/ZqSrskqhWx/
[17:21] <oerheks> step 4;create a systemd service file https://linuxbuz.com/linuxhowto/create-react-app
[17:23] <PeGaSuS> you might also want to set the "WorkingDirectory" like in here: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/vx7mqn37YK/
[17:23] <ioria> personally, i would not use npm with root
[17:30] <raxor2k> well
[17:30] <raxor2k> this is not 6 lines
[17:30] <raxor2k> but thanks anyways
[17:37] <PeGaSuS> raxor2k: I suppose you need to create a docker config file too, but well
[17:42] <eelstrebor> TJ-, no. it happens on youtube, amazon prime video, etc
[17:44] <lotuspsychje> eelstrebor: did you test that on different browsers?
[18:12] <mort> is there any plan to ever try to get suspend and resume on ubuntu to work or.....?
[18:13] <mort> is that not considered important enough
[18:14] <alkisg> In general, it works, except for certain drivers that break things, in any distribution
[18:15] <alkisg> In that case you'd need to find out the problematic driver
[18:15] <pasiz> mort: yes, and it is working. all drivers are not working, but that's different story
[18:15] <mort> hasn't really ever worked that well for me
[18:16] <mort> well, there's *one* machine I have ever used which I didn't notice major suspend/resume problems with
[18:18] <pasiz> so you decided to blame ubuntu for bad hardware choices?
[18:18] <alkisg> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingKernelSuspend
[18:18] <alkisg> The problem isn't in the hardware but in the drivers
[18:18] <mort> I don't believe I have made bad hardware choices. I believe it's the operating system's responsibility to have working drivers.
[18:18] <pasiz> no, it's hardware manufacturers responsibility
[18:19] <mort> hahaha lol
[18:19] <mort> you know that's a lie
[18:19] <mort> Linux's model doesn't even allow hardware manufacturers to publish drivers without major pain for all their end users, all maintenance of all drivers is the responsibility of the kernel maintainers
[18:20] <pasiz> mort: nope, many manufacturers co-operate with kernel
[18:20] <mort> but they can't just publish drivers now can they
[18:20] <pasiz> yes they can
[18:20] <mort> no, they have to get them mainlined into the kernel, and then it's the kernel maintainer community's responsibility
[18:21] <pasiz> if they have no expertise on driver writing, community would help, but if they don't want, nobody cannot do anything
[18:21] <alkisg> Who usually is paid by that company
[18:21] <mort> anyways, it would just be nice if suspend and resume worked at all, that's all
[18:21] <pasiz> and most kernel driver maintainers are working in companies
[18:22] <pasiz> mort: then debug what is causing it
[18:22] <mort> but I get it, suspend/resume isn't a big priority
[18:22] <mort> not like servers need it after all
[18:22] <pasiz> servers won't need it but eg. laptops it's quite mandatory
[18:22] <mort> yeah and nobody gives a shit about linux on laptops
[18:22] <mort> evidently
[18:23] <alkisg> mort, did you see the link?
[18:23] <mybalzitch> not even the person with suspend/resume problems
[18:23] <alkisg> It might be as easy as running one command before suspend
[18:23] <leftyfb> mort: are you asking for help troubleshooting your suspend issues?
[18:23] <pasiz> i run linux in my every system, I don't even have any microsoft. And none of my systems suspend / resume is not problem
[18:23] <pasiz> even in old lenovo W520
[18:24] <mort> leftyfb: I mean, if you want to help troubleshoot the issues then feel free, but it's not gonna be easy
[18:24] <pasiz> mort: did you read alkisg link?
[18:24] <mort> YES
[18:24] <mort> yes*
[18:25] <leftyfb> mort: then start by giving detailed information of your hardware, preferable using tools like lspci and lshw. Specify your ubuntu release and kernel and any logs you have of suspend failing and describe the symptoms
[18:25] <mort> you're not gonna like the desktop - it has an nvidia card
[18:26] <pasiz> quite explanatory system specs
[18:26] <leftyfb> mort: otherwise, this is not the appropriate place to complain. Feel free to file bug reports or rant in #ubuntu-offtopic or #linux (more appropriate as it's probably not ubuntu-specific)
[18:26] <mort> but I was mainly just asking if anyone is actually trying to fix suspend/resume or that it's not a priority. Sounds like it's not a priority.
[18:27] <leftyfb> !bug | mort
[18:28] <pasiz> mort: yes, there are many people trying to fix suspend/resume, but it is not helping if you are not providing your system specifications
[18:38] <mort> so, it seems like suspend (not resume) fails when I try to suspend with monitors connected but where the monitors aren't connected to power. The GPU is an NVidia GTX 1080Ti. I don't believe the other hardware matters, since it has been an issue with other CPUs and motherboards and RAM sticks and drives
[18:39] <mort> the one "hash matches" line from dmesg is from "pci 0000:07:00.0" which is the nvidia card
[18:40] <mort> but there's absolutely no use submitting this as a bug report literally anywhere is there since nvidia won't care and canonical and the linux people will blame nvidia
[18:45] <mort> can't hurt to try I suppose
[19:01] <alkisg> mort, if the problem is the nvidia binary drivers, then you were wrong to blame ubuntu/linux
[19:01] <alkisg> Try without them
[19:01] <alkisg> If it works without them, then file a bug report in nvidia itself, not in linux
[19:02] <alkisg> If nvidia won't care, don't buy from them anymore
[19:02] <alkisg> But in general, they sell cards; they card; they're the ones that make money out of you, not canonical
[19:02] <alkisg> *they care
[19:11] <moerner> Is there a way to set the default branch name to "main" in Ubuntu 20.04? It looks like init.defaultBranch = main was added in Git 2.28, but 20.04 as 2.25
[19:11] <tw3ml0w> the pop shell is "okay" in ubuntu 20.04
[19:11] <tw3ml0w> who needs gnome and a wm all in one?
[19:12] <tw3ml0w> whos work flow is that :0
[19:37] <gpap> hello
[20:03] <grtestuser> my disc doesnt start the computer any more
[20:03] <grtestuser> now i thought i repair the old grub and the disc will start again, right?
[20:04] <pasiz> grtestuser: depends why the computer is not starting
[20:11] <morgans> ubu focal, can I somehow put all the stuff on the hard drive into a smaller area so that I can partition the drive? Is this even possible?
[20:12] <eelstrebor> lotuspsychjenope, just firefox
[20:14] <Apachez> strace of gnome-shell taking 100% of a single core after some uptime in ubuntu 21.04:
[20:14] <Apachez> % time     seconds  usecs/call     calls    errors syscall
[20:14] <Apachez>  34,15    0,013715           0     30066     23367 recvmsg
[20:14] <Apachez> Cant be good?
[20:26] <loomy> reboot da machine! :)
[20:41] <nnnnnn> morgans, yes.... it may be possible with gparted to put a smaller partition on a drive if there is enough free space available on the drive
[20:42] <nnnnnn> i was thinking about doing this with a 500gb drive i wanted to clone to a 240gig ssd drive for my laptop
[20:42] <nnnnnn> so i was thinking of putting a 280gig ext3 on the ending free space of the current partition and leaving the ext3 blank
[20:43] <Apachez> nnnnnn: linux filesystems usually have less magic in the backend so you could do that manually aswell
[20:43] <Apachez> nnnnnn: as in manually setup the partition on desitination and then do a rsync or such with preserved user/groupid of each file/dir
[20:43] <EriC^> morgans: what's your end goal?
[20:46] <morgans> nnnnnn, EriC^ my goal is not to have to back this all up on a HD and reinstall all but to just put mate on another partition and see if it behaves better. (different DE and will chrome r ff be able to handle memory better so that I dont have to reboot the browser (or the system) every day or two. Plus I will get an application tree!
[20:47] <morgans> Every other time I have installed ubu I have partitioned the drive ahead of the installation so I have lots of pocket to tash in, lol
[20:49] <mort> alkisg: eh, I think it's appropriate to blame the system if a bad proprietary driver makes it possible for the system to not even be able to suspend and resume
[20:49] <Apachez> clonezilla is your friend then
[20:49] <EriC^> morgans: i think you can just install the mate DE with sudo apt-get install ubuntu-mate-desktop
[20:50] <mort> you could argue it makes sense for the gpu to not work after suspend/resume if the driver is borked, but you should at least be able to 1) make it actually suspend so that it's not drawing power when not expected to, and 2) log in using ssh when it resumes
[20:54] <mort> welp, I tried installing the latest kernel as specified in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingKernelSuspend but the nvidia drivers don't seem to work properly there
[20:54] <alkisg> mort, the kernel notifies the driver to suspend. If nvidia can't handle it, blame them to fix it
[20:55] <alkisg> If you think you can design a kernel that can suspend without knowing the hardware (because of course it doesn't, that's the driver job), then ... you're superman? great for you
[20:55] <mort> alkisg: I mean, a reasonable userspace driver API would make that possible right
[20:56] <mort> nothing about nvidia's drivers *requires* being in kernel space
[20:56] <alkisg> Graphics driver in user space?!
[20:56] <alkisg> How would they access the hardware?
[20:56] <mort> via kernel APIs?
[20:56] <alkisg> That are callable only by ring 0 processes?
[20:57] <mort> well ring 3 ideally
[20:57] <mort> doesn't Windows NT already do this
[20:57] <mort> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User-Mode_Driver_Framework
[20:57] <alkisg> Well, if you think you can implement nvidia in user space, you need to tell them that
[20:58] <alkisg> I don't think anyone else can
[20:58] <mort> not without a proper userspace driver API provided by Linux obviously
[20:58] <mort> isn't most of nvidia's proprietary drivers in userspace anyways? I think I heard stuff about that
[20:58] <oerheks> NVidia GTX 1080Ti is all we know; what driver did you use?
[20:58] <alkisg> mort, and which graphics driver uses that in windows?
[20:59] <mort> not like they're running their clang fork to compile GLSL in kernel space
[21:00] <Bit_MCP> I spent way too much time troubleshooting resume from suspend on my recent PopOS install. Turns out I just needed to disable "DDC/CI" on my monitor.
[21:00] <mort> oerheks: currently version 470 of the proprietary nvidia driver
[21:00] <mort> I would love to use nouveau but that doesn't actually work
[21:00] <morgans> right, come to think of it. Having a second partition allows me to use one hard dive to store things outside of the install. Then I can install a new system in more safety. nnnnnn EriC^
[21:01] <morgans> so how can I repartition and not lose what is on the hard drive?
[21:01] <venividivici1989> Hi Folks, i was wondering (i googled) if there was a app i could equalize my microphone and output?
[21:02] <mort> morgans: the advice is always going to be to back up everything you care about first
[21:02] <mort> morgans: once you have done that, there are ways to change your partition table in ways which have a fairly high probability of not messing up your data
[21:02] <TJ-> venividivici1989: check out PulseEffects
[21:03] <venividivici1989> I will do thx!
[21:14] <duu> how can i install xpilot-ng package? i just got a flashback and want to play the game again
[21:17] <Mekaneck> duu: probably with sudo apt install xpilot-ng
[21:37] <AmR> How Ubuntu generate resolution list ?
[21:42] <nnnnnn> morgans, gparted allows a way of resizing a partition and adding an additional partition.. . always make backups first
[21:48] <AmR> How Ubuntu generate resolution list  https://pasteboard.co/KeZBar6.png ?
[21:52] <duu> mekaneck: can't found the package
[21:59] <hardads> hey, i was wondering if anyone can help me. I encryopted my hard drive when installing ubuntu initially, now I can't mount it using the live CD / usb. Does anyone think they can help?
[22:00] <hardads> I asked the question here too, if anyone wants to have a look - https://askubuntu.com/questions/1356777/encrypted-ubuntu-missing-20-04-full-drive-encryption
[22:03] <tomreyn> hardads: https://gist.github.com/samuelcolvin/43c5ed2807e7db004b1058d0c9bfb068 and https://itectec.com/ubuntu/ubuntu-how-to-repair-boot-on-luks-encrypted-harddrive/ and https://feeding.cloud.geek.nz/posts/recovering-from-unbootable-ubuntu-encrypted-lvm-root-partition/ describe the process
[22:03] <tomreyn> you won't need to do the update-grub or grub-install step if yours still boots fine.
[22:04] <hardads> tomreyn i tried all of those in the first link, I get the error:
[22:04] <hardads> sudo cryptsetup luksOpen /dev/sda home_sda
[22:04] <hardads> Device /dev/sda is not a valid LUKS device.
[22:04] <hardads> so I can't continue with the remaining steps
[22:05] <tomreyn> device /dev/sda is a full disk, not a partition on a disk. you'll want a partition
[22:05] <hardads> hmm, there are no partitions
[22:05] <tomreyn> so... what is there, and how do you tell?
[22:06] <TJ-> hardads: start with "sudo blkid | grep crypto"
[22:06] <hardads> ^ that returns nothing, but here:
[22:06] <tomreyn> !paste
[22:06] <TJ-> hardads: you'll see at least 1 block device with "TYPE="crypto_LUKS" " if you've got a LUKS encrypted system
[22:07] <hardads> I can only see my windows partitions with that command
[22:07] <hardads> (just sudo blkid)
[22:07] <TJ-> hardads: how many drives is the computer supposed to have?
[22:07] <hardads> I have 2 drives, one 2TB, one 256gb
[22:08] <hardads> the 2TB has 4 windows partitions
[22:08] <TJ-> hardads: use "lsblk" does it show both?
[22:08] <hardads> the 256gb has/had my ubuntu
[22:08] <hardads> sudo blkid
[22:08] <hardads> lsblk
[22:08] <hardads> NAME        MAJ:MIN RM   SIZE RO TYPE MOUNTPOINT
[22:08] <hardads> loop0         7:0    0     2G  1 loop /rofs
[22:08] <hardads> loop1         7:1    0  55.5M  1 loop /snap/core18/1988
[22:08] <hardads> loop2         7:2    0  64.8M  1 loop /snap/gtk-common-themes/1514
[22:08] <TJ-> !paste | hardads
[22:09] <hardads> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/PB66ZBzyQt/
[22:10] <TJ-> methinks this is an unusual install!
[22:10] <hardads> so I'm not sure why there are no partitions (are they supposed to be visible or is it not visible because it is fully encrypted)?
[22:11] <TJ-> hardads: show us "pastebinit <( sudo blkid; journalctl -k )"
[22:11] <TJ-> hardads: they won't be invisible
[22:11] <hardads> pastebinit <( sudo blkid; journalctl -k )
[22:11] <hardads> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/2wBPCRpC75/
[22:12] <tomreyn> sda will be the (supposedly) "ubuntu disk", nvme0n1 the "windows disk", and sdb will be the "live system" you're running now.
[22:12] <tomreyn> how did you install ubuntu?
[22:12] <hardads> correct
[22:13] <hardads> literally just followed the basic instructions with the usb, next, next, but enabled the full disk encryption
[22:13] <TJ-> hardads: kernel log shows lots of hardware errors
[22:14] <TJ-> hardads: lots of "EDAC amd64: Error: F0 not found, device 0x1650 (broken BIOS?)" - EDAC == Error Detection and Correction
[22:14] <hardads> so a reason mightve been I had to RMA my motherboard, and got it swapped out for an equivalent one
[22:15] <hardads> and I get a few debug logs when booting into linux / booting out, but nothing major
[22:15] <TJ-> hardads: does "sudo blkid /dev/sda" give you anything ?
[22:15] <hardads> (every time for the past 6 months or so)
[22:15] <hardads> nothing :/
[22:15] <TJ-> hardads: when did you last have access to this sda install?
[22:15] <hardads> literally like 5 hrs ago
[22:16] <hardads> i was coding in pycharm, google chrome crashed on me
[22:16] <hardads> i kept trying to press "force quit", it continued to not force quit, even though I pressed it like 20 times
[22:16] <hardads> pycharm was responsive
[22:16] <hardads> there was an ubuntu update happening in the background and it was complete, but it asked me to restart
[22:16] <hardads> i pressed the restart button, nothing happened
[22:17] <TJ-> hardads: looks like the device's firmware is corrupted
[22:17] <tomreyn> first error seems to be "EDAC amd64: Error: F0 not found, device 0x1650 (broken BIOS?)" - https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=210593
[22:18] <tomreyn> this system runs 5.8.0-43-generic from february '21
[22:18] <hardads> ahhh the kernel error mightve also been my new gpu, but I upgraded the BIOS firmware a week ago
[22:18] <TJ-> hardads: several web sites have related questions because the device is reporting itself as "SATAFIRM   S11, SBFMP1W3"
[22:18] <TJ-> ^^^ this indicates the drive firmware is corrupt
[22:19] <tomreyn> oh *drive* firmware, that makes more sense
[22:19] <hardads> so it seems that my ssd is fried?
[22:19] <tomreyn> (i was thinking mobo)
[22:19] <hardads> let me check the log dates
[22:20] <hardads> windows boots fine btw, all data is there uncorrupted (on my 2tb ssd)
[22:20] <TJ-> hardads: apparently, the fault is in the SSD's phison controller firmware
[22:21] <hardads> so i dont think its mobo
[22:21] <tomreyn> it's probably just sda that's broken
[22:21] <TJ-> hardads: search term is "SATAFIRM   S11"  e.g. https://linustechtips.com/topic/937255-25-ssd-become-satafirm-s11/
[22:22] <hardads> oh i see
[22:22] <hardads> do you know if SSDs are hot swappable btw?
[22:22] <hardads> like if I try using a different SATA cable
[22:22] <hardads> will it show up in /dev/db<..>
[22:23] <nnnnnn_> i believe sata is designed to be hot swappable.. out of experience i turn off my computer before modifying internal components
[22:24] <TJ-> hardads: there's some talk of a repair tool but it is data destructive https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/kingston-satafirm-s11-fix.3489081/
[22:24] <nnnnnn_> striking a cpu fan blade once caused it to lose a fin when it was running
[22:25] <hardads> it seems that everything is pointing towards a hardware problem
[22:25] <hardads> okay, i will restart my pc and try another port
[22:26] <nnnnnn_> TJ-, that ssd drive error scares me
[22:26] <TJ-> looks like a common problem with the Phison controllers
[22:27] <TJ-> presumably it overwrites its own boot metadata
[22:27] <tomreyn> kingston ssd manager also handles ssd firmware upgrades, so maybe this can be solved with an upgrade
[22:28] <TJ-> bet it is a null pointer dereference and some silly dev thought it a good idea to store the metadata starting at offset 0 in flash - that's usually how it happens
[22:28] <hardads2> if its of any help, its a patriot burst 240gb
[22:28] <TJ-> this is why Linux kernel doesn't use the first 64MB of RAM, to protect against null pointers corrupting data
[22:28] <hardads2> booting straight back into GNU GRUB, which im guessing is because I have the GRUB on the 2tb windows ssd
[22:29] <TJ-> hardads2: presumably GRUB's core is installed in the EFI system partition on the NVME
[22:29] <hardads2> ah, makes sense
[22:30] <nnnnnn_> maybe a livecd would help you track the problem easier?
[22:30] <hardads2> yeah you're right, its booting into grub even when i take out the ssd
[22:30] <hardads2> the 240gb ubuntu / corrrupted one
[22:30] <tomreyn> patriot's firmware upgrade and de-brick tool would be "patriot data toolbox"
[22:30] <tomreyn> *sata
[22:31] <hardads2> damn :/, doyou think theres any chance to recover the data?
[22:31] <hardads2> havent bakced up shit, got quite a bit of code i forgot to commit before it failing :')
[22:33] <TJ-> hardads2: no, looks like data is gone
[22:34] <hardads2> damn, okay :/
[22:34] <TJ-> hardads2: installing firmware is a destrictuve operation ; presumably it resets the metadata block which will overwrite the master key
[22:34] <hardads2> any recommendations in the future to prevent this from happening?
[22:35] <hardads2> or something i should have done differently
[22:35] <Orchid> Sorry for not replying. tomreyn: I didn't do anything tho. I just update and upgrade stuff.
[22:35] <TJ->  looks like bad luck from all the reports, but, backups :)
[22:36] <hardads2> sure, what abot on the encryption side
[22:36] <hardads2> is there anything else i should do for the encryption, or just the initial set up when i first installed ubuntu enough
[22:37] <Orchid> leftyfb: here you go: https://termbin.com/ij8ay
[22:37] <TJ-> hardads2: yes, that's enough, unless you want to encrypt grub file-system as well, as in  https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Full_Disk_Encryption_Howto_2019
[22:38] <tomreyn> hardads2: the encryption should be fine (inclk- on an ssd). here's the patriot tool to do firmware upgrades - *possibly* without data loss http://downloads.patriotmemory.com/info/toolbox/2.5/toolbox_complete_1.18x1.zip
[22:39] <hardads2> sorry what does inclk- mean
[22:39] <tomreyn> Orchid: sorry, i think this is a long time ago, i don't rmemeber what we talked about, would need a fresh summary
[22:39] <tomreyn> hardads2: "inclk-" was a typo for "incl.", sorry
[22:40] <hardads2> tomrey appreciate the help, thank you. I'll try that tool now
[22:41] <Orchid> tomreyn: I'm asking about i can't restart PackageKit because it's service file is missing
[22:41] <tomreyn> hardads2: good luck
[22:43] <tomreyn> Orchid: try     sudo apt install --reinstall packagekit
[22:44] <tomreyn> this should include /lib/systemd/system/packagekit.service
[22:47] <Orchid> tomreyn: Hey it's fixed, thanks :)
[22:48] <tomreyn> Orchid: that's a miracle, because such service files don't vanish by themselves
[23:23] <ice9> why when connecting external display to the laptop, the lock screen on the laptop is black?
[23:24] <matsaman> ice9: the screen is entirely blank?
[23:24] <ice9> matsaman, i mean the background color of it
[23:25] <matsaman> what color is it usually?
[23:25] <leftyfb> ice9: ( cat /etc/os-release ; uname -a ) | nc termbin.com 9999
[23:26] <ice9> leftyfb, https://termbin.com/g0ww
[23:44] <Lutin> Hu guys, does anyone know where the gluster_shared_storage for geo replication should be mounted on a peer ? under /var/run/guster or /var/lub/gluster
[23:44] <Lutin> *lib


[07:54] <apw> mornin
[08:19] <ppisati> morning *
[08:20] <jk-> hey ppisati
[08:20] <smb> morning .+
[08:21] <jk-> ooh, it's a fnmatch vs. regex competition
[08:21] <smb> not competition really... :-P
[09:09] <mooky68> Sorry for asking again but I have observed a memory leak issue with the 2.6.31-rt kernel on Lucid: /proc/slabinfo shows a growing count of mm_struct after a resume from hibernate (I didn't reproduced the issue with the corresponding 2.6.32 generic kernel or with a vanilla RT kernel). Is this a known issue ? Should I open a bug report on launchpad ? Thank you
[12:18] <Kano> apw: how about adding the 3 commints for dvb which should be in the stable kernel as bugfix anyway?
[12:19] <apw> which are those then?
[12:19] <Kano> its even in launchpad, a bit hidden by a bugs.debian link
[12:21] <smb> telling a bug number _may_ help
[12:23] <Kano> #838130
[12:24] <apw> bug #838130
[12:24] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 838130 in linux "Kernel 3.0 breaks DVB-T (ISDB-Tb) in DiBcom 8000" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/838130
[12:24] <Kano> http://git.linuxtv.org/pb/media_tree.git/shortlog/refs/heads/for_v3.0
[12:25] <Kano> 3 patches basically, i only knew of 2 first, added am and they worked. but most likely it would be best to add all 3
[12:27] <Kano> they are in another position too
[12:27] <Kano> i fetched it from
[12:27] <Kano> http://git.linuxtv.org/media_tree.git/patch/79fcce3230b140f7675f8529ee53fe2f9644f902
[12:27] <Kano> http://git.linuxtv.org/media_tree.git/patch/bff469f4167fdabfe15294f375577d7eadbaa1bb
[12:27] <Kano> but the position should not matter
[12:29] <Kano> otherwise same dvb-t devices do not work
[12:32] <Kano> did somebody try btrfs with -11.18 kernel, somehow it seems to be very slow
[12:38] <tjaalton> oh, I just bought the same dvb tuner
[12:39] <tjaalton> well, the used module is the same, hauppauge nova-td
[12:41] <Kano> and it worked with 3.0?
[12:43] <tjaalton> bought it yesterday, haven't really tested it yet
[12:44] <Kano> good idea to test, .38 should do
[12:44] <Kano> 3.0 without patch most likely not
[12:44] <tjaalton> but apparently vlc supports dvb?
[12:44] <Kano> never used vlc for that
[12:45] <Kano> only kaffeine, vlc, tvheadend
[12:45] <Kano> err vdr not vlc
[12:45] <tjaalton> trying to forward the device to a kvm vdr instance, but it doesn't see the device
[12:46] <Kano> not my problem
[12:46] <tjaalton> was i suggesting that?
[14:21] <jwi> tgardner: for the ENERGY_PERF_BIAS patch, you might want to consider picking 17edf2d79f1ea6dfdb4c444801d928953b9f98d6 as well
[14:23] <tgardner> jwi, good catch.
[14:27] <jwi> maverick too, when <IP_ADDRESS> lands there
[14:29] <tgardner> jwi, I'll work on Maverick once its determined that these patches really have an impact.
[14:29] <smb> tgardner, Hm, was that the right thread to re: on?
[14:29] <tgardner> smb, shit
[14:31] <tgardner> smb, since the original PERF BIAS patch has already been acked, I'm just gonna apply the correction.
[14:33] <smb> tgardner, It looks safe enough to be ok even if it wouldn't... You could add my ack there...
[14:34] <tgardner> smb, done
[14:37]  * apw might have found .3s to shave off the kernel boot time
[14:38] <smb> apw, serial init?
[14:38] <apw> heh oddly not, acpi_init, over halving it in my rather unscientific testing
[14:39] <smb> uhm... acpi not very scientific, just this uneasy feeling of speeding that up...
[14:39] <apw> getting my test platform back to around the 0.98s to userspace
[14:40] <apw> smb, heh the speedup is all in kernel map handling
[14:40] <smb> ok, that sounds less worrying
[14:41] <apw> yeah its poor-mans RCU handling which is fine unless you are racing with a cpu hog, like unpacking the initramfs
[15:01] <bjf> apw, have you looked at the boot-speed reports i've generated ?
[15:01] <bjf> apw, if so, are they useful ?
[15:09] <jwi> tgardner: what i was trying to say is: <IP_ADDRESS> has the initial PERF_BIAS patch you just added, but it's missing the print fix. so when <IP_ADDRESS> lands in maverick, it will need the same fix up.
[15:12] <tgardner> jwi, <IP_ADDRESS> hasn't been pushed yet, has it? if not, then I ought to bug Andi to add the second patch.
[15:13] <jwi> tgardner: http://lkml.org/lkml/2011/8/1/324 - pushed about 50 days ago :)
[15:15] <tgardner> jwi, looks like the last stable update we pulled was .13
[15:16] <tgardner> q
[15:16]  * ogasawara back in 20
[15:27] <cr3> in the output of dmidecode, under the Processor section, is the ID attribute expected to be unique across processors?
[15:35] <CluelessPerson> hi everyone
[15:36] <CluelessPerson> Hi
[15:36] <CluelessPerson> I get an error sometimes when I reboot my server
[15:36] <CluelessPerson> init: ureadahead-other main process (712) terminated with status 4
[15:36] <CluelessPerson> [   103.509461] [drm:pch_irq_handler] *ERROR* PCH poison interrupt
[15:36] <CluelessPerson> after doing some sort of check disk or whatever
[15:36] <CluelessPerson> it prevents my server from booting, and so is problematic
[15:52] <CluelessPerson> hello?
[16:10] <tgardner> apw, have you noticed that the changelog version numbers for the daily builds of LBM and linux-meta in pre-proposed are not correct? I think there should be tilde in it.
[17:11] <apw> tgardner, actually i think they are as intended, the linux-meta packages are alway built off of the closed tip, but they actually have just the abi incremented
[17:11] <apw> tgardner, thus they are always less than any official bump would be, whether ~ or not
[17:11] <jbicha> the Oneiric kernel is actually 3.0.4, right? just wondering if our version number should reflect that
[17:12] <apw> jbicha, it doesn't do that in order to prevent abui bumps unecesarily
[17:12] <apw> jbicha, typically our version numbers there have not reflected the stable number, they are always 2.6.38-x
[17:13] <apw> jbicha, and these would have been just 3.0-x if userspace wasn't so utterly broken in soooo many ways
[17:14] <jbicha> oh ok, it's the Linux 3.0 problem, thanks!
[17:30] <apw> CluelessPerson, it sounds like that error implies the graphics h/w got all upset about something, an error indication of some sort.  what though is not specified.  only ever seen it on resume in the past
[17:31] <CluelessPerson> apw,  only happens during check disk or checking the file systems mounts
[17:31] <CluelessPerson> apw, appeared immediately after adding automounts to fstab
[17:32] <apw> CluelessPerson, that is odd indeed as the interrupt definatly comes from the display adapter
[17:33] <apw> CluelessPerson, and the other error should just indicate ureadahead is not helping but should not trigger machine death
[17:34] <apw> bjf, have you noticed the Launchpad Janitor has taken it upon itself to mark our bugs Confirmed, when they ahve more than one person affected
[17:34] <apw> we may need to use Triaged instead when we have sufficient logs
[17:40]  * apw calls it a day, i am not right
[17:55]  * tgardner --> lunch
[17:55]  * CluelessPerson is proud of himself.  He is learning.   I'm running a clean install of Ubuntu 11.04 on a Thinkpad R400 purchased new in 2009.  The display freezes at random; I can't switch to console mode, I can't move the mouse, and any on-screen animations freeze.  This problem doesn't occur if I have Ubuntu 10.04 installed.  How should I file this bug?
[20:59] <sforshee> esoergel, start by running 'ubuntu-bug linux' in a terminal, that will take you through the process of filing the bug and attach some information about your hardware to the bug report
[21:00] <esoergel> sforshee: thank you, can you think of any other tests or anything I should run to add to it?
[21:00] <sforshee> esoergel, if you can manage to trigger the bug in console mode you might get some information printed to the screen that you could photograph and attach to the bug
[21:01] <sforshee> otherwise you should get some guidance on what to do next after you file the bug
[21:01] <esoergel> sforshee: okay, thanks, I'll file it
[23:03] <bryceh> apw, lp #850772 is weird.  an intel gpu lockup on a system with i915 loaded but no Intel graphics card in sight.
[23:03] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 850772 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "False GPU lockup EIR: 0x00000010 PGTBL_ER: 0x00000012" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/850772


[17:55] <atsampson> can you get upstart to always try to restart a service, rather than giving up after a few tries?
[17:56] <atsampson> one of mine is an ssh tunnel to another machine, so if the machine is down for a bit, it goes away and doesn't come back...
[17:56] <atsampson> (it used to be a daemontools service, which always retries, but with a brief delay between retries)
[17:56] <atsampson> I should note that other than that, upstart works very nicely for me :)


[02:16] <pleia2> Welcome to the Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter, Issue 396 for the week December 8 - 14, 2014 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue396


[11:43] <minfrin> Hi all. I have a quick question about ordering of sections in cloud-init. I have a "groups" section and a "write-files" section, and in the "write-files" section I need to assign group names that were created in the "groups" section. This doesn't work, because "write-files" runs before "groups", and "write-files" fails with the error group-not-found. Is there a way around this?
[11:54] <smatzek> I don't see one short of modifying /etc/cloud.cfg to change the order but I don't know what other effects that might have.  What you could do is use write files to write the files and groups to create the groups, and then add a runcmd section to do the chown since runcmd runs after both of them.


[13:59] <mattyw> jcastro, ping?
[14:00] <Daviey> starting shortly
[14:00] <jamespage> Daviey, great!
[14:01] <jcastro> mattyw: pong!
[14:01] <jcastro> oh, sorry, that machine is rebooting
[14:01] <jcastro> on my way!
[14:01] <Daviey> anyone else joining?
[14:01] <nealmcb> Video "the live event will begin in a few minutes" :)
[14:01] <Daviey> (the fishbowl)
[14:01] <Daviey> nealmcb: just trying to get everyone seated
[14:02] <nealmcb> :)
[14:02] <arosales> Hello
[14:02] <arosales> we are getting started with WebScale Packaging Review session
[14:03] <mattyw> jcastro, you're lightning talk about go juju later - are you going to talk about why it's been re written in go?
[14:03] <arosales> any folks here for that session
[14:03] <jamespage> arosales, so whos running the hangout?
[14:03] <jamespage> arosales, yes
[14:03] <arosales> jamespage: me
[14:03] <zyga-uds2> hi
[14:03] <jamespage> arosales, URL?
[14:03] <arosales> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/f940f0bbd48c29bcb1f6f6d4646ea5dbcef5ed6d?authuser=0&hl=en
[14:03] <zyga-uds2> QUESTION: all three seem to be in the archive today, is this session about wrapping them in juju or something else?
[14:04] <Daviey> oops, wrong channel :)
[14:05] <arosales> jamespage: will you be able to join?
[14:05] <jamespage> arosales, yeah - getting and error joining - just trying with chrome
[14:05] <arosales> jamespage: ok, thanks.
[14:07] <jamespage> arosales, OK _ so I can't join the hangout for some reason
[14:07] <jamespage> I'll tune in and participate via IRC
[14:07] <nealmcb> great set of etherpad notes to start the session!
[14:08] <nealmcb> Video still not showing - is anyone talking yet?
[14:08] <jamespage-not-in> o/
[14:08] <dweaver> nealmcb, yes, the video is working for me
[14:08] <jamespage-not-in> arosales: I'm on it
[14:09] <nealmcb> still says "this live event will begin in a few moments".  I'll try reloading again
[14:09] <arosales> nealmcb: reload the page
[14:10] <nealmcb> But please do note in irc each time the video goes live for a session
[14:10] <nealmcb> ok, got it
[14:11] <jamespage-not-in> arosales: I poked mongodb enough last night to get 2.2.3 into raring
[14:11] <jamespage-not-in> sans SSL support
[14:11] <arosales> jamespage: ah great to hear
[14:11] <jamespage-not-in> IMHO nodejs itself moves far to fast to be in main
[14:12] <jamespage-not-in> utlemming: ^^
[14:12] <jamespage-not-in> yeah and thats OK until we get 10x
[14:13] <jamespage-not-in> its the support that would be a killer - esp security I think
[14:13] <jamespage-not-in> I would actually prefer to see a series align set of PPA's for nodejs
[14:13] <jamespage-not-in> 6.x 8.x 10.x etc. etc.
[14:13] <mariusko_> We are using Node for development, and the PPA version is sufficient, but not the released ones in distro.
[14:14] <jamespage-not-in> for openstack what we have in distro 6.x is sufficient
[14:14] <mariusko_> Other deps, we get from npm
[14:14] <jamespage-not-in> BUT we don't use it for openstack-dashboard runtime - just to generate the less assets statically
[14:15] <jamespage-not-in> RE PPA - there is a maintained PPA already
[14:15] <jamespage-not-in> https://launchpad.net/~chris-lea/+archive/node.js
[14:17] <jamespage-not-in> maybe I'll write a less compressor in python and remove the dependency for openstack
[14:17] <jamespage-not-in> :-)
[14:18] <jcastro> mattyw: it'll mostly be an overview on feature parity. We haven't done a thorough benchmark quite yet.
[14:18] <nealmcb> reliance on specific node.js versions sounds like the messy world of java dependencies - ouch...
[14:18] <mattyw> jcastro, ok thanks
[14:18] <jamespage-not-in> I have tested the SSL support
[14:18] <mariusko_> A version of nodejs in backports would be better I think than PPA, or supply different versions for the user to decide.
[14:18] <jamespage-not-in> had some issues on armhf
[14:19] <jamespage-not-in> utlemming: agreed
[14:19] <niemeyer> FWIW, it's not clear that we cannot include it
[14:19] <jamespage-not-in> GPL code linking to OpenSSL without exception
[14:19] <niemeyer> THere is a specific exception about distribution software with a distribution, IIRC
[14:19] <jamespage-not-in> niemeyer: you are correct - we are following the Debian stance right now
[14:20] <niemeyer> We should talk to a lawyer
[14:20] <jamespage-not-in> niemeyer: Ubuntu can elect todo something different
[14:20] <jamespage-not-in> niemeyer: upstream don't believe there is an issue
[14:21] <niemeyer> jamespage-not-in: If we can legally ship it, it sounds like a big service we'd be doing to people
[14:21] <jamespage-not-in> niemeyer: agreed
[14:21] <mariusko_> Making the ppa endorsed as "official" would probably have the same effect
[14:22] <niemeyer> Since we'd be matching precisely the exception rule
[14:23] <mariusko_> Recompiling wont work when you run "juju add-unit -n 10"
[14:23] <mariusko_> You end up with manual work or different version in different machines
[14:23] <jamespage-not-in> just around mongodb
[14:23] <utlemming> mariusko_: that's was my point about repeatability.
[14:23] <niemeyer> 2.4 is around the block
[14:23] <niemeyer> Do we have plans for including it?
[14:23] <jamespage-not-in> arm support is currently a distro patch (again)
[14:24] <jamespage-not-in> niemeyer: yes
[14:24] <niemeyer> jamespage-not-in: Super, thanks
[14:24] <mariusko_> japp, about nodejs
[14:25] <jamespage-not-in> utlemming: something with arm support would be good
[14:25] <jamespage-not-in> chris's PPA does not have that
[14:25] <mariusko_> Regarding the mongo&SSL, isn't upstream breaking license too?
[14:25] <jamespage-not-in> mariusko_: I don't think so
[14:25] <niemeyer> A PPA is a PPA.. blessing it or not doesn't make a lot of difference in practice it seems
[14:26] <niemeyer> There will still be a package in main, that will be out of date
[14:26] <niemeyer> Upstream cannot ship it
[14:26] <niemeyer> We can
[14:27] <niemeyer> (apparently)
[14:27] <niemeyer> We should ship it if that's true
[14:27] <arosales> niemeyer: mainly I think folks are looking for a way to have confidence in a package and get the latest in terms of node.js.
[14:28] <elmo> utlemming: kind of
[14:28] <jamespage-not-in> utlemming: yes
[14:28] <niemeyer> +1
[14:28] <jamespage-not-in> elmo: do you have a different take on this?
[14:29] <elmo> the distinction is the wording of 'major essential component'
[14:29] <elmo> and whether or not openssl counts as such for Ubuntu
[14:29] <elmo> I'm not qualified to say whether or not it does
[14:29] <elmo> but it's not about whether or not we actually ship libssl
[14:29] <elmo> Debian does too
[14:29] <elmo> it's about whether we/lawyers are happy for that to be considered a major essential component
[14:29] <niemeyer> +1
[14:30] <utlemming> More information from the Gnome Folks: http://people.gnome.org/~markmc/openssl-and-the-gpl.html
[14:30] <elmo> anyway, this is details, and I doubt we can resolve it here
[14:30] <ayr_ton> Can I help with the task of "Identify specific advantages of nginx over apache"?
[14:30] <jamespage-not-in> OK - lets move on from mongodb
[14:31] <jamespage-not-in> I've requested a OpenSSL license exception from upstream to resolve this cleanly
[14:31] <niemeyer> None here :)
[14:33] <niemeyer> no disagreements, that was
[14:34] <mariusko_> What about JBoss?
[14:34] <jamespage-not-in> utlemming: would you like to pickup the work items for nginx?
[14:34] <jamespage-not-in> mariusko_: hmm - massive amout of work to package
[14:35] <jdstrand> some parts of jboss is in universe from Debian. aiui, there is a lot that is not there
[14:35] <jcastro> utlemming: I don't think so
[14:35] <jcastro> oh, I am wrong then. :)
[14:35] <jamespage-not-in> they are extremely out of date
[14:35] <sbeattie> does nginx have a publicly visibile VCS yet? (supportability issue)
[14:35] <jamespage-not-in> utlemming: its not
[14:35] <jdstrand> utlemming: ^
[14:35] <jdstrand> arosales: only some parts
[14:35] <mdeslaur> sbeattie: yes, it does
[14:35] <jamespage-not-in> you can't run jboss from the archive
[14:35] <med_> howdy
[14:35] <sbeattie> mdeslaur: ah okay
[14:35] <mariusko_> JBoss version in Ubuntu is outdated (4.2.x)
[14:35] <med_> FPI ended so others are joining
[14:36] <jamespage-not-in> some of its components are present - but just to support other java packages
[14:36] <jamespage-not-in> the effort to package it fully is not worth the effort
[14:36] <jamespage-not-in> its better charmed
[14:36] <jdstrand> it has regular security updates from RedHat
[14:36] <utlemming> Current release is 7.1
[14:36] <jdstrand> it would be non-trivial to support
[14:37] <mdeslaur> yes, it does, I checked
[14:37] <jdstrand> I haven't looked
[14:37] <jdstrand> utlemming: I was talking about jboss there, not nginx
[14:37] <jamespage-not-in> I would completely support jdstrand on this
[14:37] <jdstrand> I have opinions on nginx, but they are probably out of date
[14:37] <elmo> (<bitter>the lag between IRC and the hangout is awesome</>)
[14:38] <mdeslaur> http://trac.nginx.org/nginx/browser
[14:38] <utlemming> code: svn://svn.nginx.org/nginx
[14:38] <arosales> sbeattie: ^
[14:38] <mariusko> http://wiki.debian.org/JBossPackaging
[14:38] <sbeattie> arosales: thanks
[14:39] <jamespage-not-in> I looked at jboss 2 years ago and ruled it out as a possibility to have effective packaging
[14:39] <med_> mariusko, look at MIR for jboss?
[14:39] <mariusko> MIR?
[14:39] <med_> Main INclusion Request in ubuntu
[14:39] <jamespage-not-in> arosales: thats not the right question
[14:39] <med_> he may not be familiar
[14:40] <jamespage-not-in> the question is - who wants to package Jboss
[14:40] <mariusko> I'm not sure right now. Most users install it manually I think, but for Juju it would be important to have it included.
[14:40] <med_> Not I.
[14:40]  * jamespage-not-in stands back
[14:40] <elmo> jboss is java right?  AFAIK jamespage packages all the Java stuff for Ubuntu
[14:40] <jcastro> :)
[14:40] <med_> mariusko, for Juju, you don't have to have it packaged.
[14:40] <mdeslaur> haha
[14:40] <jamespage-not-in> elmo: I've already expressed my position on this
[14:40] <med_> that's why he's using a hidden nick today
[14:41] <jcastro> from my limited experience with jboss, it's not a simple stack
[14:41] <mariusko> Sure, you could have juju script that fetch it from upstream somehow
[14:41] <jamespage-not-in> I'm not working on this full time for the next 12 months to get together packages which are not maintainable
[14:41] <mariusko> Maybe RedHat would be interested in contributing to getting JBoss in.
[14:41] <jcastro> I don't think "packaging jboss" is the issue. To do real jboss support we'd need like 2 more jamespages.
[14:41] <med_> bwahahahaha.
[14:42] <dedalus> i missed varnish discussion, but i'd be interested in helping with that
[14:43] <jamespage-not-in> this is far more effectively dealt with using Juju and the release tarball from upstream
[14:43] <jamespage-not-in> lets talk about varnish
[14:43] <jamespage-not-in> is ivoks here? hmm - no
[14:43] <dedalus> ah, i guess i didn't miss it :)
[14:43] <med_> jamespage-not-in, the "effectively dealt" is w/r/t jboss, right?
[14:43] <jamespage-not-in> med_: yes
[14:43] <Daviey> jamespage-not-in: Are you suggesting a pool of upstream carried jar's is hard to work with, in packaging ?
[14:43] <jcastro> I know the varnish packager guy
[14:44] <jamespage-not-in> Daviey: don't make me cry
[14:44] <jamespage-not-in> Daviey: OK so it could be packaged (binary style) for Canonical partner
[14:44] <jdstrand> varnish has a security history (3 CVEs)
[14:44] <jcastro> Their webpage recommends to not use the distro packages btw:
[14:45] <jdstrand> arosales: no, but it has a security history (3 CVEs)
[14:45] <jcastro> https://www.varnish-cache.org/installation/ubuntu
[14:45] <jdstrand> heh
[14:45] <jcastro> so if upstream doesn't like the packages
[14:45] <jamespage> makes it much harder
[14:45] <utlemming> "Varnish is distributed in the Ubuntu package repositories, but the version there might be out of date, and we generally recommend using the packages provided by varnish-cache.org."
[14:45] <dedalus> they say they only support LTEs
[14:46] <dedalus> erm, LTSs
[14:46] <jamespage> I think if we want to look at this we need to reach out to upstream to discuss
[14:46] <jcastro> (Full disclosure): I have a work item to convince them to just do that in the charm.
[14:46] <elmo> mithrandir works for the company behind varnish, last I heard
[14:46] <jdstrand> arosales: this attitude from upstream gives me some pause. it suggests they don't support older versions, only the newest
[14:46] <jcastro> looks like they just want to be able to keep it up to date out of band
[14:46] <jcastro> elmo: still does last I checked
[14:46] <mariusko_> Juju charm does install it: http://jujucharms.com/charms/precise/varnish/hooks/install
[14:46] <jdstrand> arosales: which becomes difficult at the tail end of LTS
[14:46] <mariusko_> The distro version
[14:47] <dedalus> also on that page: Please be advised that we only provide packages for Ubuntu's LTS releases, not all the intermediate releases. Note that the packages might still work fine on newer releases.
[14:47] <jcastro> utlemming: right, but the idea was to get them to add a feature to the charm to use their version
[14:47] <ivoks> i think the problem is that the version we have in quantal was released in 2011
[14:48] <ivoks> they don't have that much new versions
[14:48] <jdstrand> I'm less concerned about their packaging. a consideration is how the handle their own releases. that could be fleshed out in the MIR
[14:48] <ivoks> s/much/many
[14:48] <jcastro> either way, whoever we get to do the packages should probably just start by talking to upstream first to see what their concerns are about distro packages
[14:48] <jcastro> aka "How can we ship Varnish that would meet your requirements?"
[14:48] <jdstrand> if there isn't a lot of code churn, upstream's attitude on their support becomes less of a concern (which I think ivoks was hinting at)
[14:49] <jcastro> which is much better than their download page saying "don't use ubuntu's packages"
[14:49] <jdstrand> again, that is something that could be discussed in the MIR process
[14:49]  * jcastro nods
[14:50] <jamespage> just as a side note we need to be better at evaluating whether a Minor Release Exception is appropriate for packages we MIR
[14:50] <dedalus> note Debian also has varnish
[14:50] <dedalus> http://packages.debian.org/squeeze/varnish
[14:50] <jamespage> this might be appropriate for varnish
[14:50] <jamespage> which might help oil things with upstream
[14:50] <jcastro> "Varnish is distributed in the Debian package repositories, but the version there might be out of date, and we generally recommend using the packages provided by varnish-cache.org or packages from backports.debian.org."
[14:50] <jcastro> heh, same issue
[14:52] <jamespage> we should also leverage backports more in Ubuntu as well for this stuff
[14:52] <ivoks> jamespage: +1
[14:52] <jcastro> arosales: yep, assign it away!
[14:52] <jamespage> I intend to request backports of mongodb for precise
[14:52] <jamespage> and quantal
[14:52] <med_> and if they don't "in" the hangout they can't defend themselves.
[14:53] <med_> go for it.
[14:54] <mariusko> Btw, the mongodb package is outdated yes, for quantal and precise
[14:54] <Daviey> I question how exciting backports are
[14:54] <mariusko> Was just updated in Raring.
[14:54] <Daviey> They are as hard to use as a PPA, and have roughly equal distro support
[14:55]  * jdstrand has to go
[14:56] <jamespage> ta
[14:56] <arosales> session ended
[14:56] <jamespage> ttfn
[14:56] <arosales> thanks for everyone's time.
[14:57] <ivoks> we will never have 100% happy upstream since, by nature, we are moving slower than they are; if we would like to make everybody happy, we would have to drop LTS and move to always rolling release
[14:57] <ivoks> and then no one would use the distro :)
[15:00] <arosales> Juju Application Stacks getting kicked off.
[15:04]  * marcoceppi raise?
[15:10]  * niemeyer wonders if jcastro moved back to CUba
[15:10] <niemeyer> Yay
[15:10] <marcoceppi> \o/
[15:11] <jcastro> niemeyer: wrong flag! I am offended!
[15:15] <marcoceppi> deploy all the node apps
[15:17] <mariusko__> hi
[15:19] <marco-summit> It's too early for that
[15:19] <rbasak> arosales: worth trying I think. Good idea! But note that people following the stream have no hope of seeing anything in there unless you select it.
[15:21] <jcastro> elmo: are you in this session?
[15:21] <rbasak> Probably more useful when other charms want a memcached relation?
[15:21] <marcoceppi> It's a key player, but it's not a large key player
[15:21] <elmo> jcastro: I just joined
[15:21] <elmo> jcastro: which charm sorry?
[15:21] <arosales> rbasak: right, if we focus on the IRC  I will give it focus
[15:21] <rbasak> arosales: makes sense!
[15:21] <elmo> jcastro: checking prodstack now, but I don't believe we're using it yet
[15:22] <elmo> jcastro: I think it's part of a lego stack
[15:22] <elmo> it doesn't feel like a standalone full 'stack' like e.g. rails would
[15:23] <elmo> jcastro: ah, so summit was using it
[15:23] <elmo> jcastro: so it's at least functional
[15:23] <elmo> and uccs.ubuntu.com (which is not yet live in prodstack, but is deployed) is using it
[15:23] <marco-summit> It's definitely functional, been using it myself for quite a bit
[15:23] <niemeyer> arosales: The IRC window works..
[15:24] <marco-summit> I don't think any one service has a hard requirement for memcached, a lot use it in a supplementary nature
[15:24] <elmo> arosales: so, in theory, if your service can't function without a cache, your service is broken
[15:24] <elmo> arosales: or so lifeless tells me
[15:24] <marco-summit> elmo: +1
[15:25] <niemeyer> arosales: I think it can be made on demand
[15:25] <niemeyer> elmo, marco-summit: Sure, but needing data in a cache != needing a cache service
[15:26] <elmo> niemeyer: sure, I was partially being flip
[15:26] <niemeyer> I think it's not a high-priority either way
[15:26] <elmo> niemeyer: I agree, some services are going to expect memcache to be available, but we've met that bar
[15:26] <elmo> jcastro: it's the remote login service that modern unity can use
[15:27] <jcastro> ack
[15:27] <rbasak> arosales: +1 for IRC idea. I think it might be particularly useful for those watching the recording later, too.
[15:27] <marco-summit> rbasak: yeah, I can see that being really helpful. Only downside is there's a bit of lag between what we hear and what they say
[15:28] <rbasak> Yeah the lag is annoying but more fundamental to any live interaction with the hangout I think. IRC included.
[15:29] <elmo> jcastro: nope
[15:29] <elmo> some people use redis as a persistent store
[15:29] <elmo> which makes it slightly different case to memcache
[15:29] <mattyw> would anyone here be interested in a neo4j charm?
[15:29] <elmo> jcastro: yeah, that's my reaction ;-)
[15:29] <marco-summit> I've used redis in production, it works along the lines of memcached. Simple to set up
[15:29] <jcastro> mattyw: YES! give me a second to finish out this list
[15:29] <jcastro> then we can move on to new work!
[15:30] <marco-summit> cham works as expected
[15:30] <elmo> jcastro: yep
[15:34] <mattyw> jcastro, ummm
[15:34] <jcastro> mattyw: :)
[15:35] <mattyw> arosales, I've only ever played around with it
[15:35] <niemeyer> It's a graph database
[15:35] <mattyw> arosales, but there's a company behind it, maybe they'd be interested in helping out?
[15:35] <niemeyer> Somewhat of a unique one
[15:36] <mattyw> niemeyer, have you used it? I wrote a toy application to work my way around the london underground, but that was about it
[15:36] <niemeyer> mattyw: No.. I just follow along and watch from the distance
[15:37] <jcastro> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=685615
[15:37] <udsbotu> Debian bug 685615 in wnpp "RFP: neo4j-community -- Neo4j is a high-performance, NOSQL graph database with all the features of a mature and robust databas" [Wishlist,Open]
[15:37] <niemeyer> It's a different class of database than any of the listed ones really
[15:37] <niemeyer> It's not about whether it's a webapp or not.. more about what's the use case
[15:39] <niemeyer> It's very useful for graph-related problems
[15:39] <niemeyer> Network of friends, etc
[15:39] <niemeyer> The real question in the context being debated, though, is how many people have we found that have an app using it
[15:40] <mattyw> I could give it a go
[15:40] <mattyw> I'm no expert though, but I'm happy to take a look
[15:42] <mariusko> I have some real life experience with NodeJS charm, and I believe it has issues common with other user app charms, to get user code deployed
[15:42] <niemeyer> Huh?
[15:42] <mariusko> See https://bugs.launchpad.net/charms/+source/node-app/+bugs?field.status:list=NEW
[15:44] <niemeyer> jcastro: The *data* is, sure..
[15:44] <jcastro> ack
[15:45] <marco-summit> cheers
[15:46] <arosales_> Session ended
[15:47] <arosales_> Thanks for everyone's time
[15:49] <philipballew> Hello world!
[15:56] <arosales> philipballew: hello
[15:58] <arosales> Getting started with http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1303/meeting/21692/servercloud-1303-juju-docs/
[15:59] <evilnickveitch> arosales, I hope someone is going to invite me to the hangout :)
[16:00] <arosales> you should see the hangout URL when you load http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1303/meeting/21692/servercloud-1303-juju-docs/
[16:00] <arosales> evilnickveitch: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/f87b2b24c412bee262b5e31d2c0633f24a1d9831?authuser=0&hl=en
[16:03] <jcastro> roll call! \o
[16:03]  * marco-summit o/
[16:03] <melmoth> hi there
[16:03] <mattyw> I'm here again
[16:03]  * philipballew waves
[16:04] <mreed> waves
[16:06] <jcastro> https://stripe.com/docs btw is what I mean
[16:07] <jcastro> as an example of awesome docs
[16:08] <arosales_> melmoth, mattyw, mreed , hello :-)
[16:08] <arosales_> marco-summit, hello :-)
[16:16] <marcoceppi> markdown.
[16:17]  * marcoceppi is not biased
[16:24] <marco-summit> Most of all the javascript, if any, should probably be at the template level anyways
[16:24] <marco-summit> So contributors won't have to mess with it
[16:25] <marco-summit> jcastro.md
[16:26] <marco-summit> Everything should be in LaTeX :P
[16:36] <marco-summit> +1 definitely annotate the anatomy of a charm. There really isn't a good place for this
[16:36] <marco-summit> out there currently
[16:40] <marco-summit> evilnickveitch: I tried my hand at this a while ago:
[16:40] <marco-summit> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1p--PQprZI8-rGr68M_zW-4rdftaIu6-h6n_UGtfk-Ws/edit
[16:40] <marco-summit> As sort of "the docs really suck at being organized"
[16:40] <evilnickveitch> marco-summit, thanks !
[16:42] <marco-summit> I'd be interested in helping contribute more up to date documentation when time permits
[16:42] <evilnickveitch> marco-summit, okay, thats cool, we should keep in touch
[16:43] <mattyw> it would be good to know when the docs get updated
[16:43] <mattyw> somehow????
[16:43] <mattyw> cool
[16:43] <mattyw> cheers!
[16:44] <marco-summit> cheers!
[17:05] <mreed> waves