[01:52] <IDWMaster> Is this the appropriate channel for discussing software development on Ubuntu?
[01:52] <IDWMaster> Not app development, but library development
[01:56] <xnox> IDWMaster: any most development goes on at #ubuntu-app-devel. Unless it's something major / widespread framework you'd expect the core desktop/os to use a lot.
[01:56] <xnox> then it's appropriate for this channel.
[01:56] <xnox> IDWMaster: better just ask ahead =) and we redirect you if this is not the right channel ;-)
[01:57] <xnox> infinity: at least with wubi, it's signed with microsoft ssl cert and it should be valid.
[01:58] <IDWMaster> I'm receiving realtime signal 34 for some odd reason:
[01:58] <IDWMaster> And it's crashing my program
[01:58] <IDWMaster> It's crashing on pthread_cond_wait
[01:59] <IDWMaster> I'm not sure how to debug such an error
[01:59] <IDWMaster> Sometimes it crashes on read() as well within getch
[02:01] <IDWMaster> Any idea what could be causing this?
[02:01] <IDWMaster> Crashes with the message: Program received signal SIG34, Real-time event 34.
[02:01] <IDWMaster> Backtrace from GDB indicates it's crashing in read() from getch
[02:03] <Chipzz> IDWMaster: NO, this is NOT the approrpiate channel for that
[02:03] <infinity> IDWMaster: You probably want #ubuntu-app-devel (see /topic)
[02:03] <IDWMaster> OK
[02:03] <IDWMaster> Thanks
[02:03] <infinity> Chipzz: You could be a bit more polite about your redirects.
[02:03] <Chipzz> (was that too harsh?)
[02:03] <Chipzz> sorry, my bad
[02:04] <xnox> Chipzz: NO, it was NOT the approrpiate voice for that redirect.
[02:04] <xnox> ;-)
[02:04] <infinity> Oh, hi /topic, I've been patch piloting for how many days now?  Oops.
[02:04] <infinity> @pilot out
[02:04] <Chipzz> xnox: LOL :)
[02:04] <xnox> How did that read to you?! =))))))
[02:04] <Chipzz> xnox: but why did you not redirect him right away instead of saying this could be the right channel?
[02:05] <Chipzz> xnox: IME, if people are asking that question, the answer is almost always "no"
[02:05]  * xnox thought to teach not to ask a question to ask a question.
[02:05] <infinity> Every once in a while, an "app devel" question actually ends up being a "why is the compiler buggy?" question, or similar.
[02:05] <xnox> and hopefully let somebody else redirect. =)))))
[02:05] <Chipzz> the very fact that they ask (in most cases) means they're uninformed and hence by definition shouldn't be here
[02:06] <infinity> In his case, definitely not.  He was just writing a poorly-threaded application.
[02:06] <lifeless> thus having two problems
[02:06] <xnox> lifeless: =)
[02:06] <Chipzz> infinity: I would argue that if it involves such a problem, the people encountering those problems tend to more informed, and thus come here for a reason
[02:07]  * xnox always jumps a little when lifeless just appears and makes a comment once in a blue moon
[02:07] <infinity> Chipzz: Eh.  Not always.  Tripping over new and exciting bugs isn't limited to the experienced.
[02:07] <Chipzz> infinity: no it isn't, but in 99% of the cases the fact that people are asking "is this the right channel?" is a very good indicator that it's not ;)
[02:08] <Chipzz> because like I said, informed people *know* wether or not this is the right channel. and informed people read the topic :)
[02:09] <scientes> if only
[02:10] <Chipzz> and I'ld argue that tripping over a compiler error isn't very common. and even if it is, one could argue that the correct avenue is to ask in #gcc or something of the kind first
[02:11] <Chipzz> infinity: but like I said, the moment I hit enter I realized my sentence could have done with less caps. meh
[02:26] <xnox> cannot find Python.h would be #ubuntu-app-devel, right until we uploaded multiarched python and /broke the world/ and suddently it's a very #ubuntu-devel on topic.
[02:39] <Malsasa> Hello, lintian says copyright-file-contains-full-gpl-license, i have read lintian page about it and debian policy manual, but i don't understand. What should I fill in copyright file? I have filled it with copy of GPL text...
[02:40] <scientes> Malsasa, the gpl header text
[02:41] <Malsasa> scientes: i don;t know what is that... any example what should I write in the copyright file?
[02:42] <scientes> this is the short versino: http://paste.debian.net/235443/
[02:42] <scientes> but you really should include the no warranty clause as well
[02:42] <scientes> (per the GPL)
[02:43] <Malsasa> scientes: TKP
[02:43] <scientes> Malsasa, like this http://paste.debian.net/235444/
[02:43] <Malsasa> scientes: TKP again
[02:44] <Malsasa> scientes: thank you... i will try to copypaste them i copyright
[02:44]  * Malsasa am learning debian packaging
[02:44] <scientes> make sure to differentiate between GPL and LGPL
[02:45] <scientes> and the v3 text is differn't to v2 text, even the header
[02:45] <Malsasa> scientes: oooh, okay
[02:45] <Malsasa> scientes: okay
[02:45] <Malsasa> scientes: if i confused, i wanna ask you again here... :)
[02:45] <scientes> and there is a LGPL-2.1
[02:53] <Malsasa> scientes: okay
[02:53] <Malsasa> scientes: so, in the point, i should fill only 1 copyright in that file?
[02:54] <infinity> Malsasa: You might find http://dep.debian.net/deps/dep5/ informative
[02:54] <Malsasa> infinity: waaah, thanks!
[02:55] <scientes> Malsasa, http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/copyright-format/1.0/
[02:55] <scientes> that superceeds dep5
[02:55] <Malsasa> scientes: wow, thank you again. TKP
[02:56] <infinity> Oh, indeed.  I just always remember it as DEP5, and Google it as such.  Someone should edit DEP5 to put a link to the proper spec at the top.
[02:57] <Malsasa> infinity: thank you
[03:12] <Malsasa> infinity: my problem about copytight file solved
[03:13] <Malsasa> scientes: i copied another deb's copyright , i've checked it befire by lintian
[03:49] <ScottK> infinity: Any more luck with qscintilla2?
[03:49] <infinity> ScottK: Oh, I stopped looking right around when I whined at you.
[03:50] <ScottK> Oh.  Rats.
[03:50]  * ScottK adds it back to TODO.
[03:50] <infinity> ScottK: I could rewrite the symbols files by hand and probably do a better job than the helper script, which keeps failing.
[03:50] <infinity> ScottK: Just had no motivation today.  Day off, and I was still working. :/
[03:50] <ScottK> Understood.
[05:08] <vibhav> Should libnotify depend on glib?
[05:08] <vibhav> Shouldnt*
[05:08] <vibhav> /usr/include/libnotify/notify.h:25:18: fatal error: glib.h: No such file or directory
[06:55] <pitti> Good morning
[08:01] <dholbach> good morning
[08:35] <brendand> does anyone remember the name of the python module which converts ubuntu release numbers to series names and vice versa?
[08:40] <pitti> brendand: python-distro-info
[08:40] <pitti> (or python3-distro-info)
[08:46] <brendand> pitti, how robust is it?
[08:46] <brendand> pitti, if i install it on a lucid box will it still be able to tell me 13.04 is raring?
[08:47] <pitti> brendand: AFAIK it's supposed to be the definitive place for this now, and being used by several developer tools
[08:47] <brendand> pitti, and so on continuing into the future
[08:47] <brendand> pitti, cool
[08:47] <pitti> brendand: I don't know; it did get a few SRUs for newer releases
[08:54] <pitti> brendand: I don't think lucid's got SRUs to add raring etc.; if you need this always, it's probably better to query launchpad
[08:54] <brendand> pitti, how would you query launchpad?
[08:55] <brendand> pitti, i mean not in general (obviously using launchpadlib), but to get the series name from release number
[08:57] <pitti> brendand: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1680511/
[09:01] <geser> brendand: you can also use "ubuntu.getSeries(name_or_version='13.04')" to get the right series object instead of needing to iterate the list to find it
[09:04] <brendand> geser, i was wondering that
[09:11] <tumbleweed> pitti: we SRU to add new releases
[09:11] <tumbleweed> otherwise ubuntu-dev-tools breaks (it needs to know development release names, in tools that don't use LP)
[09:11] <pitti> tumbleweed: oh right, I was looking for a lucid SRU, but distro-info isn't in lucid yet; my bad
[09:43] <doko> barry, xnox: could you have a look at shiboken again? ftbfs
[09:44] <xnox> doko: ok. cjohnston was looking at it yesterday.
[09:44] <doko> ahh, cool
[09:44] <xnox> (and I do mean cjohnston this time around ;-) )
[09:57] <doko> stgraber, upstart ping
[09:59] <brendand> pitti, tumbleweed - it happens that the script i'm writing has to use launchpadlib anyway so i will just use that method
[10:10] <cjwatson> vibhav: Er, it does.  apt-cache show libnotify-dev | grep glib
[10:11] <cjwatson> vibhav: I suspect that whatever you're building isn't using the proper compiler flags, as emitted by 'pkg-config --cflags libnotify', so is missing the correct include directory for glib
[10:26] <cjwatson> infinity: By the way, I fixed the cdimage checksumming bug from last night.  https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~cjwatson/ubuntu-cdimage/mainline/revision/974
[10:26] <cjwatson> hallyn: FYI, bug 1129571, if you haven't seen it already
[10:31] <ogra_> cjwatson, hmm, do the launchpad buildds actually use qemu ? i thought only PPAs do
[10:33] <ogra_> would have helped if it mentioned the builder in the bug ... the log seems gone too
[10:33] <cjwatson> ogra_: Uh, the bug was about a failure on virtualised PPAs
[10:33] <ogra_> well, nothing in the bug indicates that
[10:33] <cjwatson> ogra_: My comment does
[10:33] <cjwatson> ogra_: I have context from a lengthy IRC conversation yesterday
[10:33] <ogra_> oh
[10:34] <ogra_> yeah, i thought so
[10:34] <ogra_> (that there was side conversation)
[10:34] <cjwatson> Getting Alex to escalate this qemu bug was one of the conditions for working around the problem temporarily by making the PPA devirtualised
[10:34] <cjwatson> And that state shouldn't go on too long
[10:35] <ogra_> yeah
[10:35] <Daviey> cjwatson: Happen to know what version of qemu is in use (& maybe what kernel)?
[10:35] <cjwatson> Daviey: Whatever's on archive.admin.c.c
[10:35] <cjwatson> 1.3.0+dfsg-1~exp3ubuntu8~3.IS.12.04 I think
[10:35] <Daviey> cjwatson: Ok, thanks.
[10:36] <cjwatson> And for the kernel, check any virtualised PPA armhf build log
[10:36] <caribou> pitti: looks like I'll have to do my apport MP against a raring branch as I have a change to debian/apport.upstart which is not in trunk
[10:37] <pitti> caribou: you can do two MPs
[10:37] <caribou> pitti: ah, didn't think of that
[10:37] <pitti> caribou: if you do just one, I'll pick it apart myself, i. e. apply the matching bits to trunk
[10:37] <pitti> caribou: trunk has a sysv init script
[10:38] <cjwatson> Daviey: (commented to that effect)
[10:38] <caribou> pitti: fine, then I'll adapt the upstart change to the sysv script in trunk and do a separate one for upstart
[10:38] <Daviey> cjwatson: thanks
[10:38] <pitti> caribou: great, thanks!
[10:39] <caribou> pitti: should I do the upstart one on lp:ubuntu/raring-proposed/apport ?
[10:39] <pitti> caribou: not -proposed, just raring; please, yes
[10:39] <caribou> pitti: ok, will do
[10:51] <zequence> diwic: Any chance you will be updating pulseaudio to a newer upstream version before feature freeze?
[10:52] <diwic> zequence, 3.1 might happen if it's released, but that would not be any huge change compared to 3.0.
[10:52] <zequence> diwic: I prepared a patch that adds the channel config thing to the jack module http://paste.ubuntu.com/1681367/
[10:53] <zequence> Was a little unsure of what would be the best way to forward it
[10:53] <zequence> I haven't actually tested the patch. I should probably do that :P
[10:54] <diwic> zequence, it seems to be missing an entry in debian/changelog
[10:57] <diwic> zequence, hmm, or maybe you just posted the patch file, not the debdiff
[11:03] <zyga> bryce: hey
[11:04] <zyga> bryce: it still crashes with xorg-edgers
[11:33] <mjt> how does ubuntu use qemu for building stuff?
[11:33] <mjt> it looks like some arches are built in qemu (qemu user mode emulation), right?
[11:34] <mjt> according to LP:1129571
[11:35] <zyga> mjt: I don't think we use qemu for building packages
[11:35] <cjwatson> Virtualised PPAs use qemu for some architectures
[11:35] <cjwatson> Specifically ARM
[11:35] <mjt> that's arm :)
[11:35] <cjwatson> I've answered this twice in this channel in the last hour or so :)
[11:35] <cjwatson> mjt: Yes, and this bug is about ARM
[11:35] <zyga> ah ;)
[11:36] <mjt> oh. i see it in the scrollback
[11:36] <cjwatson> And yes, it's qemu-user-static + binfmt_misc in roughly the obvious way
[11:37] <mjt> i was going to say, more or less, that it's better to replace this with qemu-system, if possible... :)
[11:37] <cjwatson> Unlikely to happen
[11:38] <cjwatson> I asked Alex to escalate this bug because that clearly ought to be done; I doubt there's any time to entirely rewrite the way virtualised PPAs are handled
[11:38] <mjt> i see
[11:38] <mjt> well. if the root cause of this is hat i think it is, it won't be fixed in a few seconds in qemu either.
[11:38] <cjwatson> Not to mention that that would doubtless have its own set of problems, e.g. with finding a machine to emulate that can use all the memory of the build system
[11:39] <cjwatson> mjt: Sure, didn't claim it would
[11:39] <cjwatson> Any real bug tracking system has hard bugs in it
[11:41] <mjt> this should ebe a good testing ground for qemu and building stuff this way, anyway
[11:42] <Malsasa> Hello, is Size field necessary in debian/control file? Or just Installed-Size field?
[11:42] <mjt> both fields are generated automatically
[12:18] <leighman> how can I get a launchpad recipe to build with debug symbols/a -dbg package?
[12:28] <xnox> leighman: one should add a -dbg package in the control file and dh_strip should put the symbols there. and one should make sure package is compiled with debug symbols on.
[12:29] <lantizia> Lo... I just bought a Nexus 4 (mainly because I'm sick of using a dead OS called Maemo on my N900 and I'm finally admitting it's time to use android - but ALSO because of this Ubuntu Mobile beta coming out in 2 days time) but it'll take 2 weeks to get here
[12:29] <xnox> (they are by default but some crazy packages overwrite it)
[12:29] <lantizia> I'm wondering... how likely is it I can dual boot Android and Ubuntu Mobile on it?
[12:29] <lantizia> or maybe load one from the other?
[12:29] <xnox> lantizia: see #ubuntu-phone channel.
[12:29] <lantizia> xnox, ah I tried #ubuntu-mobile but it says to go to #ubuntu-devel!
[12:30] <xnox> lantizia: sorry about the loop.
[12:30] <xnox> lantizia: #ubuntu-mobile is obsolete channel, latest Phone OS is on #ubuntu-phone.
[12:33] <ogra_> yeah, #ubuntu-mobile kind of turned towards #ubuntu-arm a few years ago .... and the phone is separate and new
[12:46] <zequence> diwic: Hi. Got cut off the internet before
[12:49] <mterry> didrocks, what's the new sdk package name?
[12:49] <diwic> zequence, yeah, I wrote something about missing debian/changelog but I'll take it back because I realized you just pastebinned the patch, not the full debdiff
[12:49] <didrocks> mterry: it's not in raring yet
[12:49] <mterry> didrocks, oh, I misread something
[12:53] <zequence> diwic: Yes, I was having a bit of trouble with it. I suspect I need to test this first, cause I only realized later I actually didn't know if it'll work. Bit busy now, but will give it another shot this evening. Ping you tomorrow, maybe
[12:54] <diwic> zequence, won't be around tomorrow, back on Thursday
[12:56] <zequence> diwic: ok
[12:58] <diwic> zequence, my workflow for adding a pulseaudio patch would, roughly, be: bzr branch lp:~ubuntu-audio-dev/pulseaudio/ubuntu ; cd ubuntu ; bzr bd-do ; quilt push -a ; quilt import <patch> ; quilt push ; exit ; dch -i ; bzr add debian/patches/* ; bzr commit ; bzr push
[12:59] <diwic> zequence, and bzr-buildpackage for testing
[13:26] <leighman> xnox: so it should have debug symbols as is or dh_strip only adds them if there is a -dbg package?
[13:28] <hrw> leighman: if build is done on buildd then dh_strip will create dbgsym ddeb package
[13:30] <leighman> hrw: should http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~leighman/evolution-force/evolution-force-packaging/files/head:/debian/ in a recipe produce something that gives a reasonable backtrace or do I explicitely need a -dbg package?
[13:30] <leighman> hrw: sorry, total package noob
[13:31] <hrw> leighman: sorry, I lack knowledge of cdbs
[13:36] <diwic> seb128, hi
[13:50] <seb128> diwic, hey
[13:52] <xnox> leighman: if you are building in a ppa, unlike ubuntu archive, there are no automatic dbgsym packages. By default dh_strip either saves detached debug symbols in $pkg-dbg or discards them.
[13:52] <xnox> leighman: if that's too hard just `export DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS='nostrip'` and that should keep debug symbols attached to the objects.
[13:53] <leighman> xnox: I'm don't understand half of those words :P
[13:53] <diwic> seb128, with PA 3.0 finally in Raring I'm experimenting with a patch to g-c-c that will give us better icons, i e a speaker icon instead of the card icon.
[13:53] <seb128> nice
[13:53] <diwic> seb128, the problem seems to be that some of the icons, e g the speaker icon, is not present on the system.
[13:53] <xnox> leighman: in that case seek further help in #ubuntu-packaging channel.
[13:53] <leighman> xnox: ahha, ok, cool
[13:54] <diwic> seb128, but e g the HDMI icon and the mic icon works fine
[13:54] <diwic> seb128, the question is what to do about that?
[13:54] <seb128> diwic, do we need those icons added to our icon theme or...?
[13:55] <diwic> seb128, yeah I think they need to be added somewhere, and I'm not an icon expert :-)
[13:55] <seb128> diwic, the issue is not to have them added, it's to have them "made"
[13:56] <diwic> seb128, let me look up the icon names
[13:57] <diwic> seb128, the names are "audio-headphones" and "audio-speakers" I believe
[13:58] <diwic> seb128, so, in short, do you know how to "get icons made"?
[13:58] <diwic> seb128, if you think it's worth the effort?
[13:58] <seb128> diwic, talk to the design team, but I guess it's too low priority that will be work on it any time soon
[13:58] <seb128> be worked on*
[13:58] <seb128> diwic, I would stay with what we have
[13:59] <diwic> seb128, is it possible to use Gnome's icons if they have them?
[13:59] <diwic> seb128, just copy them in to our theme or so
[14:04] <diwic> seb128, it looks like audio-speakers is shipped in gnome-icon-theme-full eg
[14:04] <xnox> diwic: we should auto-fallback correctly to some theme that has them already.
[14:04] <cjohnston> doko, xnox: fwiw, I continued to get error after error with shiboken... I am at a loss as to why it builds in debian but there are so many issues in ubuntu
[14:04] <xnox> cause we do have a number of fallbacks.
[14:05] <xnox> cjohnston: it doesn't build in clean debian sbuild any more.
[14:05] <cjohnston> oh
[14:05]  * xnox did say that me and ScottK did poke it extensively (and both having DD and ubuntu hats....)
[14:06] <stgraber> doko: upstart pong
[14:06] <cjohnston> xnox: yup.. :-)
[14:06] <doko> stgraber, see email
[14:06] <stgraber> doko: ok, will do in a minute
[14:06] <diwic> xnox, so I do have a working speaker icon if gnome-icon-theme-full is installed - maybe we can move that icon from gnome-icon-theme-full to gnome-icon-theme?
[14:08] <xnox> how big is the package?
[14:09] <xnox> (despite raising the limits on normal desktop, fully installed default experience still has every MB to account for on devices that do not have the luxury of TBs of space ;-) )
[14:09] <cjwatson> Well, diwic was just talking about moving one icon
[14:11] <diwic> there's still the missing headphones icon though, which is not shipped in our theme, nor in gnome's.
[14:15] <hallyn> cjwatson: yup, i did notice it yesterday.  glad Peter took a look for a start.
[14:18] <stgraber> doko: thanks for the analysis. I'd rather have jodh look at the changes and get upstart and libnih fixed though. I think he's out today so hopefully this can be done tomorrow.
[14:21] <hallyn> cjwatson: all right i'll see what i can do with that today.  maybe i can at least bisect it.
[14:40] <cjwatson> hallyn: *nod* thanks
[15:17] <doko> seb128, not sure if you are the right one to track this ... qtcreator will stay in -proposed unless powerpc binaries are removed, or qtjsbackend-opensource-src is built on powerpc
[15:18] <seb128> didrocks, ^
[15:18] <seb128> doko, didrocks is rather
[15:20] <didrocks> doko: either way, I think we can remove the binary for now and let it go to raring
[15:20] <doko> didrocks, in this case, please identify all the depending binaries
[15:21] <didrocks> doko: I will, just not right now though, trying to get most of what we are focusing the sprint on, and then, will list that
[15:22] <didrocks> or maybe Riddell, as he sponsored part of the stack as well
[15:27] <geryon6> When I'm looking at a Launchpad bug marked “Fix Released” (e. g. LP #964897), how do I know which version actually fixes the bug?
[15:28] <geser> geryon6: look at the changelog from the janitor (comment #7)
[15:29] <stgraber> @pilot in
[15:30] <geryon6> geser: Unfortunately that's the wrong one, because the bug was reopened and fixed again later.
[15:32] <geser> geryon6: in such cases it's probably best to ask the person who set the bug to "Fix released" again (perhaps it's tracked in a different bug now)
[15:34] <geryon6> It would be nice if that information would be shown next to the “fix released” at the top. Am I the only one who is missing this feature?
[15:37] <geser> geryon6: I guess not, I'm pretty sure other people would like to see LP have versioning support for bugs
[15:41] <cjwatson> doko,didrocks: qtcreator has only one reverse-dep on powerpc, namely qt-sdk, which is Architecture: all
[15:41] <cjwatson> If the new qtcreator is urgent then it might be best to leave that intentionally broken for now rather than trying to work around it; qt-sdk itself has no reverse-dependencies
[15:42] <cjwatson> (As in, remove the powerpc binaries knowing that it will create one extra uninstallable)
[15:53] <geryon6> geser: I've found LP #163694 which more or less covers this. Seems this issue is known for years already.
[15:57] <cjwatson> geryon6: Explicit version tracking was in the initial design for Launchpad Bugs, but was later removed/long-term-deferred
[15:58] <cjwatson> At this point it's very unlikely to be added in (at least) the medium term
[16:00] <geryon6> cjwatson: That's sad to hear because it confuses me quite often. Sometimes I can see the fixed version number in the comments, but not always. And if it is there, it is not easy to find.
[16:01] <cjwatson> geryon6: You're preaching to the choir :)
[16:01] <cjwatson> It was in the initial design for Launchpad Bugs because when we designed it I had recently added the corresponding feature to debbugs
[16:01] <cjwatson> But, as things worked out, I ended up working on Ubuntu rather than on the bug tracker
[16:02] <mlankhorst> at least you get to make a lts pointrelease ;)
[16:04] <geryon6> cjwatson: I see. :)
[16:04] <xnox> ev: ubiquity-dm crashed but "it's no longer installed" since well it's removed at the end of the oem-config, can we still whitelist that?
[16:05] <didrocks> cjwatson: I agree, there is no rush for qtcreator to go outside proposed, and we  need to wait for mirv to be back from vacations for pushing the ubuntu sdk as well
[16:15] <infinity> didrocks: Well, as long as it depends unconditionally on a v8 JS engine, it ain't gonna build on PPC, so we need to either sort out how to turn some bits off for !x86/ARM, or we need to just drop the binaries that fall out of that chain.
[16:16] <didrocks> infinity: I would go for dropping, but prefer to check with mirv first
[16:16] <infinity> didrocks: This'll be a bigger deal as this all gets pushed to Debian, where the majority of their arches have no v8 port (while for us, it's only one arch), so someone, somewhere, is going to have to come up with a pleasant solution.
[16:17] <ev> xnox: I'd much rather see if we can drop that check. Digging through the code, it looks like we only need the package installed to determine its origin.
[16:18] <ev> (we could compromise and set it to [origin: uninstalled])
[16:19] <infinity> didrocks: But we can certainly remove the binaries in Ubuntu and push back on the Debian maintainers to find a more elegant solution for arches without V8 ports, and we'll pick up whatever they decide to do.
[16:19] <didrocks> infinity: urgh, interesting, not sure why they didn't discuss that yet as he ensured me they sync together. Let's see how it goes
[16:19] <didrocks> infinity: agreed
[16:20] <infinity> (I really wish V8 had a generic C implementation for non-native ports, but unless you know a V8 engineer at Google who wants to make that happen, it's certainly not a weekend project I intend to get sucked into)
[16:59] <hallyn> pitti: slangasek: bug 1092715 is causing headaches with automated testing.  so until both it and inotify kernel bugs are definately resolved, i'd like to remove the udev rule hack i had in place (which isn't reliable anyway) in favor of expliclty doing chown/chmod/setfacl in postinst.  just until the other bugs are fixed.
[17:49] <Malsasa> Hello, anybody can help me? http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=12518579#post12518579 <<< How to Write Correct copyright File?
[17:53] <slangasek> hallyn: go for it.  Where are we wrt kernel inotify bugs, though?
[17:55] <hallyn> slangasek: i'm not sure.  i *thought* it was supposed to be fixed,
[17:55] <hallyn> but comments by jamespage suggest they may not be
[17:56] <hallyn> infinity: ^ do you know if all inotify bugs are supposed to be fixed in raring's current kernel?
[18:22] <infinity> hallyn: I'm not familiar with the bug you were working around, so I can't say.
[18:23] <hallyn> infinity: oh i'm sorry, i thought you were the one who had pointed it out to me.  nm.
[18:24] <infinity> hallyn: Well, we've had different inotify bugs.  The one where it was causing leaks and you'd eventually run out of inotify handles has been fixed.
[18:24] <infinity> hallyn: But if it's just a case of "inotify doesn't work right, and I don't know why", that could be a bug in the application, not the kernel.
[18:27] <hallyn> app being udev - possible to be sure
[18:27] <hallyn> lunch (and not me) - biab
[20:01] <kieppie> well done with the new table, mobile & tv stuff guys. just watched the vid. very nice!
[20:01] <kieppie> can hardly wait for stable code repo's
[20:02] <kieppie> 13.04?
[20:02]  * kieppie can't wait to see the fan/parody vids....
[20:19] <stgraber> @pilot out
[22:20] <zyal> Helo
[22:20] <zyal> Can anyone help me out here?
[22:21] <sarnold> zyal: irc tends to work best if you ask a specific question upfront :)
[22:21] <zyal> Okay =D
[22:21] <zyal> I'm trying to install the Ubuntu SDK
[22:21] <zyal> but am stuck at the qtchooser package
[22:22] <zyal> Running sudo-apt-get -f install yields:
[22:22] <zyal> Unpacking qtchooser (from .../qtchooser_0.0.1~git20121229.g8f08405-0ubuntu1~precise1~test5_i386.deb) ...
[22:22] <cjwatson> Where's the web page with the instructions you're starting from?
[22:22] <zyal> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/qtchooser_0.0.1~git20121229.g8f08405-0ubuntu1~precise1~test5_i386.deb (--unpack):
[22:22] <zyal>  trying to overwrite '/usr/bin/xmlpatterns', which is also in package qt4-dev-tools 4:4.8.1-0ubuntu4.4
[22:22] <zyal> No apport report written because MaxReports is reached already
[22:22] <zyal>                                                               Processing triggers for man-db ...
[22:22] <zyal> Errors were encountered while processing:
[22:22] <zyal>  /var/cache/apt/archives/qtchooser_0.0.1~git20121229.g8f08405-0ubuntu1~precise1~test5_i386.deb
[22:22] <zyal> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
[22:22] <cjwatson> Yeah, whatever way you slice it that's a bug *somewhere*
[22:22] <zyal> http://developer.ubuntu.com/get-started/gomobile/
[22:22]  * cjwatson looks
[22:22] <zyal> I followded it to the tee
[22:23] <cjwatson> zyal: What Ubuntu version are you running?
[22:23] <cjwatson> I assume 12.04, from that log
[22:23] <zyal> Yes
[22:23] <zyal> Do I have to 12.10 >.<
[22:24] <cjwatson> No, just one minute while I set up a reproduction environment
[22:24] <zyal> Okay
[22:29] <cjwatson> zyal: Did you already have qt4-dev-tools installed before starting this?
[22:29] <cjwatson> Or was it one of the new packages installed?
[22:29] <zyal> I think I've installed qt4-dev-tools before
[22:29] <zyal> For what reason I dont know why
[22:30] <GuidoPallemans> ph
[22:30] <GuidoPallemans> oh
[22:30] <cjwatson> I ask because it's only a recommendation here, so if you didn't have it installed already then that'd be a workaround
[22:30] <zyal> okay
[22:31] <cjwatson> But I want to check this out anyway - just waiting for it all to download
[22:32] <zyal> alright
[22:38] <cjwatson> Hmm, doesn't look like qt4-x11 has had qtchooser support added to it in precise.  https://launchpad.net/~canonical-qt5-edgers/+archive/qt5-proper/+packages shows it for raring (though it's in the primary archive there anyway) and quantal, but not precise
[22:38] <zyal> aw shicks
[22:38] <zyal> Does this mean no SDK for me in precise?
[22:38] <cjwatson> So my reading of this is that Timo needs to fix that
[22:39] <cjwatson> I suspect you can make it work for now by 'sudo apt-get remove qt4-dev-tools; sudo apt-get install ubuntu-sdk notepad-qml qt4-dev-tools-'
[22:39] <cjwatson> But I haven't got far enough through this download to be able to test that
[22:39] <zyal> that's the thing
[22:39] <cjwatson> If you wait 10-15 minutes or so I should be able to verify
[22:39] <zyal> my installer is locked up
[22:40] <cjwatson> Oh, that's just apt, that's recoverable
[22:40] <zyal> How should I?
[22:40] <cjwatson> sudo dpkg --configure -a
[22:40] <cjwatson> sudo apt-get -f install
[22:40] <cjwatson> Then if it's still busted, paste the error into paste.ubuntu.com and post the URL you get
[22:42] <zyal> http://pastebin.com/cQYUi9BU
[22:43] <cjwatson> zyal: sudo dpkg --remove qt4-dev-tools; then repeat the two commands above
[22:46] <zyal> cjwatson: Same Errors
[22:46] <cjwatson> zyal: Can't possibly be exactly the same; paste again
[22:47] <zyal> Oops your right
[22:47] <zyal> sec
[22:47] <cjwatson> (If nothing else, I would expect an error from the first command if it didn't resolve the second/third)
[22:48] <zyal> http://pastebin.com/h1hYQYUL
[22:52] <cjwatson> zyal: Meh, you're going to have to remove a fairly large chunk of Qt4 to make this possible as it stands - is that something that will cause a problem?  (e.g. if you were running Kubuntu or Unity-2D it would not be a good plan)
[22:52] <zyal> cjwatson: No sir, I use DWM anyway
[22:52] <zyal> No unity
[22:53] <cjwatson> You can, I believe, do this with "sudo dpkg --remove libqt4-dev libqt4-opengl-dev libqtwebkit-dev qdbus qt4-qmlviewer" and then those same two commands again
[22:53] <zyal> Somewhat related: I dont need unity to develop though, right?
[22:53] <cjwatson> Don't ask me, I'm a foundations developer :)
[22:53] <cjwatson> But I'll mail Timo and remind him that qt4-x11 is busted
[22:53] <zyal> Ah okay
[22:54] <zyal> So how do i atleast get the term working again?
[22:55] <cjwatson> Have you tried that command above yet?
[22:55] <zyal> Oops slipped my eyes
[22:57] <zyal> Success?
[22:57] <zyal> Yes
[22:57] <zyal> no error this time
[22:57] <cjwatson> GOod
[22:57] <zyal> Does this mean ubuntu-sdk is installed?
[22:57] <cjwatson> If the last command's output ended with "Setting up ubuntu-sdk (0.1~bzr20130204-0ubuntu1~precise1~test1) ...", you should be good
[22:58] <cjwatson> You can always repeat "sudo apt-get install ubuntu-sdk notepad-qml" to make sure
[22:58] <cjwatson> I've sent that mail, so hopefully this can get sorted out properly rather than by this kind of hack
[22:58] <cjwatson> Thanks for reporting
[22:58] <zyal> Thanks alot cj..
[22:59] <zyal> should I report this officially.. I have no experience
[22:59] <cjwatson> It's in a PPA so that's a bit awkward
[22:59] <cjwatson> I've already mailed the person I believe to be the responsible developer, which should be enough here
[23:00] <zyal> Alright sweet
[23:00] <zyal> What do you do as a foundations dev?
[23:00] <cjwatson> bottom layer of userspace; personally, boot loaders, installers, package archive infrastructure
[23:01] <zyal> ooh sounds like hard work
[23:01] <infinity> zyal: As a general rule, if it's pretty, we don't touch it ("we" being "foundations developers")
[23:01] <zyal> LOL
[23:02] <infinity> The installer being the only possible exception to that rule.
[23:02] <zyal> Ive always wondered do you guys ever get to talk to Shuttleworth?
[23:02] <cjwatson> It wasn't desperately pretty for a fair while ...
[23:02] <zyal> other than the summits
[23:02] <zyal> or do you just work under a branch
[23:03] <cjwatson> Now and again; he's a busy man
[23:03] <infinity> Most of us probably talk to Mark a lot less than we did 8 years ago.
[23:03] <infinity> See above, re: busy man.  Plus, the company is much larger.
[23:03] <zyal> I can imagine
[23:03] <infinity> I haven't had strange 5am phone calls in a long time.
[23:04] <zyal> But you guys have met him in the early years tho
[23:04] <cjwatson> It's not that we're not allowed to talk to him, it's just that if he tried to talk to several hundred employees and goodness knows how many community members directly he'd never sleep at all
[23:04] <infinity> Yeah.  When we were all much younger and slightly more silly.
[23:05] <zyal> Ah
[23:05] <zyal> As a FOSS dev.. do you guys have any alternative $$ making gigs on the side? Did your FOSS credit help you guys in your fields?
[23:05]  * cjwatson digs
[23:05] <cjwatson> 2026     Feb 18 Mark Shuttlewor (  19) New Debian-related project
[23:05] <cjwatson> :)
[23:06] <zyal> Just curious on the whole scene actually
[23:06] <zyal> ;D
[23:06] <sarnold> cjwatson: cool :)
[23:06] <cjwatson> Eh, Canonical employs me, I don't have time for two jobs
[23:06] <infinity> cjwatson: I like Scott's version better than the real thing.
[23:06] <jcastro> we're coming up on 10 years of Ubuntu!
[23:07] <cjwatson> But certainly the fact that I'd been doing free software for several years beforehand got me this job
[23:07] <infinity> jcastro: Getting there, yeah.
[23:07] <cjwatson> Hey, yeah, that mail was 9 years yesterday
[23:10] <infinity> cjwatson: Hrm.  Tempted to wiggle the 12.04.4 release date to 2014-02-18, and make a 10th anniversary thing out of it.
[23:10] <cjwatson> It's only a tenth anniversary in a weird internal sense
[23:11] <infinity> Thankfully, I hate editing wikis, and I'll forget in a year.
[23:11] <cjwatson> Besides, pretty sure Scott was already on the payroll (such as it was) by then
[23:11] <infinity> cjwatson: True, the 10th anniversary of warty is probably more interesting.
[23:11] <cjwatson> I seem to remember he said he had to go to considerable effort to keep his mouth shut in Málaga
[23:12] <cjwatson> (er, Open Source World Conference, held there around that time; at least he and I and Tollef were there)
[23:15] <jcastro> infinity: we need to find something clever for no-name-yet.com too
[23:16] <infinity> jcastro: You'd have to ask Matt nicely, it's his, not the company's.
[23:16] <infinity> jcastro: Or, so says the all knowing registrar.
[23:16] <jcastro> I'm sure we can find some kind of scheme
[23:21] <lifeless> cjwatson: I don't think scott was on the payroll on the 18th
[23:21] <lifeless> cjwatson: would have to dig up evolution to check though :)
[23:22] <lifeless> warty release as 10th anniversary makes lots of sense to me
[23:26] <cjwatson> lifeless: Maybe not as such but he certainly knew about the project then
[23:27] <lifeless> cjwatson: certainly
[23:28] <lifeless> cjwatson: you can pick jan 16th or thereabouts if you want 'when folk knew' :)


[19:03] <rbasak> o/
[19:04] <rafaeldtinoco> o/
[19:05] <ddstreet> o/
[19:05] <ddstreet> i guess i'm chairing today?
[19:06] <rafaeldtinoco> ddstreet: I think so
[19:06] <ddstreet> #startmeeting Developer Membership Board - Nov 30 2020 meeting
[19:06] <meetingology> Meeting started Mon Nov 30 19:06:23 2020 UTC.  The chair is ddstreet. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[19:06] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[19:06] <ddstreet> #topic Review of previous action items
[19:07] <ddstreet> #subtopic ddstreet edubuntu seed <-> pkgset (carried over)
[19:07] <ddstreet> sorry, carrying again
[19:07] <ddstreet> i think the holiday time will hopefully let me tackle learing seeding enough to hadnle that item
[19:07] <ddstreet> #action ddstreet edubuntu seed <-> pkgset (carried over)
[19:07] <meetingology> ACTION: ddstreet edubuntu seed <-> pkgset (carried over)
[19:07] <ddstreet> #subtopic rbasak to reply to ML re: canonical-oem-metapackages packageset and owning team creation (carried over)
[19:07] <rbasak> Carry over please
[19:08] <ddstreet> #action rbasak to reply to ML re: canonical-oem-metapackages packageset and owning team creation (carried over)
[19:08] <meetingology> ACTION: rbasak to reply to ML re: canonical-oem-metapackages packageset and owning team creation (carried over)
[19:08] <rbasak> I need to check with Laney what is outstanding here and what the next steps are
[19:08] <ddstreet> #subtopic ddstreet to announce Seth FOrshee's successful packageset application and apply permissions
[19:08] <ddstreet> done, email sent and team created
[19:08] <ddstreet> #subtopic ddstreet to contact TB for packageset and teams creation for DKMS packageset
[19:08] <ddstreet> done, email sent and bug opened
[19:09] <ddstreet> so, the PPU and MOTU applications are both scheduled for next meeting, I don't see any applications scheduled today
[19:10] <ddstreet> i don't see any mailing list requests outstanding either, unless i'm missing something
[19:11] <ddstreet> #topic Open TB bugs
[19:11] <ddstreet> #subtopic kernel-dkms packageset creation
[19:11] <rbasak> There's one request on the private list that should probably have gone to the public list.
[19:11] <rbasak> I can handle that one.
[19:11] <ddstreet> ack thanks rbasak
[19:12] <ddstreet> #action rbasak to handle private ML request
[19:12] <meetingology> ACTION: rbasak to handle private ML request
[19:12] <rafaeldtinoco> about the MOTU ?
[19:12] <ddstreet> the only open TB bug is for the kernel-dkms packageset, it's still open https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community/+bug/1905016
[19:12] <ddstreet> i'll send a ping to the TB asking about it
[19:13] <rafaeldtinoco> shouldn someone be subscribed ?
[19:13] <rafaeldtinoco> or just to open against ubuntu-community is enough ?
[19:13] <ddstreet> #action ddstreet to ping TB to check on kernel-dkms packageset creation
[19:13] <meetingology> ACTION: ddstreet to ping TB to check on kernel-dkms packageset creation
[19:13] <ddstreet> i think the TB is subscribed to ubuntu-community bugs? I also did email the TB mailing list, per our DMB steps
[19:13] <Laney> rbasak: (someone on the DMB side to review / merge the script I submitted, then transfer the ownership of the set to ~ubuntu-archive so that I can arrange to start running it)
[19:14] <rbasak> Laney: ah, thanks. I'll follow up.
[19:15] <ddstreet> ok i think we're into AOB now?
[19:15] <ddstreet> #topic Any other business
[19:16] <ddstreet> anything else?
[19:16] <rafaeldtinoco> nope
[19:16] <rbasak> o/
[19:16] <rbasak> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mate-uploaders/+members seems to mismatch the instructions under https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/KnowledgeBase#Packagesets
[19:17] <rbasak> I think I need to add the team to ~ubuntu-uploaders, and re-add ~ubuntu-core-dev to ~ubuntu-mate-uploaders with no expiry
[19:17] <rbasak> Does anyone know of any reason this would be wrong?
[19:17] <ddstreet> +1 agree with you
[19:17] <rbasak> OK I'll do that then. Thanks!
[19:18] <rbasak> Just wanted to check there isn't something I'm missing :)
[19:18] <rafaeldtinoco> that was part of the effort we were moving to group membership but we havent moved all of them
[19:18] <rafaeldtinoco> iirc
[19:18] <ddstreet> i may have messed up creating the team, apologies
[19:18] <rbasak> np, easy to fix
[19:19] <ddstreet> ok i think we're wrapped up? i suppose i'll move myself to end of the chair list as well
[19:19] <rafaeldtinoco> and remove eric ?
[19:20] <rafaeldtinoco> I dont think he will be participating as chair in DMB meetings
[19:20] <ddstreet> yeah, i suppose we should discuss with him if he plans to step down before the next regular elections
[19:20] <rafaeldtinoco> ACTION item ?
[19:20] <ddstreet> yep
[19:21] <ddstreet> #action discuss with slashd plans for DMB involvement or stepping down before next election
[19:21] <meetingology> ACTION: discuss with slashd plans for DMB involvement or stepping down before next election
[19:21] <ddstreet> and i'll remove him from the chair list
[19:21] <ddstreet> ok anything else?
[19:22] <rafaeldtinoco> im good
[19:22] <ddstreet> #endmeeting
[19:22] <meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Nov 30 19:22:28 2020 UTC.
[19:22] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2020/ubuntu-meeting.2020-11-30-19.06.moin.txt
[19:22] <ddstreet> thanks all o/
[19:22] <rafaeldtinoco> thanks for chairing this ddstreet o/
[19:22] <rbasak> Thanks!
[19:48] <teward> apologies for not being around got dragged into work meetings


[00:50] <Denza252> Drone`: denza
[00:50] <Denza252> Denza
[05:04] <lallu> i have a intel core 2 duo processor. with 2 gb ram and no graphics card. Will Kubuntu 14.04 work for me?
[05:20] <moose187> hello?
[07:48] <naftilos76> Hi, is there an editor in kde that has file editting capabilities as well as integrated terminal?
[07:48] <naftilos76> I need something like that for coding
[08:00] <valorie> naftilos76: there is kdevelop
[08:00] <valorie> although many use Kate for that as well
[08:00] <naftilos76> i am using kate with the terminal
[08:00] <naftilos76> looks fair so far
[08:00] <valorie> you can use terminal as a kpart in most kde apps
[08:00] <valorie> even Konversation
[08:00] <valorie> :-)
[08:00] <naftilos76> thanks
[08:01] <valorie> investigate the plugins if you want more power/capabilities
[08:40] <lordievader> Good morning.
[11:21] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[11:59] <JunkHunk> I have a problem with AWN. I installed the program but it won't work well on kubuntu so I decided to uninstall it but...after ppa-purge the repository and apt-get purge awn still I get this message at login: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=83911 I 've searched my home folder and I found there is still a AWN folder under home/me/.config/awn  my question is...will the deletion of this folder fix the pop up at login?
[14:58] <David1965> I just don't know the SATA driver wasn't checked out on machines running the m2n68-la (Narra3) motherboards before being added to the latest distros and maybe should use a SATA driver that doesn't cause the Hard-drive to stay on constantly
[15:00] <David1965> because when UBUNTU 12.04LTS came out the SATA driver was perfect I suspect that this was the case for the 64bit version of UBUNTU 12.04LTS
[15:02] <ikonia> "sata driver"
[15:02] <ikonia> there is no such thing
[15:02] <ikonia> the chipset for your hardware is what is specific
[15:02] <ikonia> libata take instructions from that
[15:02] <David1965> that is what I mean that is the SATA driver
[15:02] <ikonia> do find out which driver your system is using and find out if it supports your chipset
[15:03] <ikonia> rather than complaining
[15:04] <David1965> the chipset is the NVidia NForce 630
[15:05] <ikonia> thats not what I asked
[15:08] <David1965> when I had UBUNTU 12.04LTS 32 bit installed it was pretty much perfect not one glitch but since things have moved on and the libata.so has been changed it means that systems running the n2n68-la (Narra3) are more likely to glitch
[15:09] <ikonia> why do you think libata.so is the problem ?
[15:12] <David1965> because when the UBUNTU 120.04LTS 32bit was about it was pretty much perfect and didn't have a glitch problem but the fact that things have move on and the libata.so driver had been updated made it more likely to cause machines with the m2n68-la motherboard to glitch
[15:13] <ikonia> many things have been updated between versions, others just changed
[15:13] <ikonia> I don't know how you can blindly state libata.so is the problem based on "it worked on the older version of ubuntu"
[15:13] <David1965> yes ikonia if the source code for libata.so was available I could build it for my machine
[15:14] <ikonia> what ????
[15:14] <David1965> but it would need to be the 64bit version not the 32bit
[15:14] <ikonia> are you talking about the libata kernel module, or the libata.so libc library
[15:14] <David1965> lets call it quits bye
[15:15] <ikonia> ??
[15:15] <lordievader> I have a feeling that for both the source is available...
[15:16] <ikonia> they are
[15:16] <ikonia> hence my confusion
[15:17] <ikonia> and I don't understand why it would need to be 64bit rather than 32bit....if he was running 64bit, it would already be 64bit
[15:17] <lesshaste> is there anything I can add to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kile/+bug/1421830 to make it more informative?
[15:17] <ikonia> I doubt libata was even the problem as it looked like there was no research done, let alone research with any real understanding (but I could be wrong)
[15:18] <ikonia> lesshaste: stating the versions ?
[15:18] <lesshaste> Package: kile 4:2.1.3-2ubuntu1
[15:18] <ikonia> on what version of ubuntu - where did that package come from
[15:18] <lesshaste> ikonia, it's in the bug report
[15:18] <ikonia> I don't see it
[15:18] <lesshaste> let me see
[15:19] <ikonia> ahh I got it
[15:19] <ikonia> there is an lsb_release output
[15:19] <lesshaste> ikonia, so do you think anything is missing in the end?
[15:20] <ikonia> looks pretty "full"
[15:20] <ikonia> certainly for a first post on a bug
[15:20] <lesshaste> ok cool.. what is annoying is that there are no debug symbols
[15:20] <lesshaste> but I can't see how to fix that
[15:20] <ikonia> lesshaste: there are normally symbols packages
[15:20] <lesshaste> ikonia,  not for kile it seems.. not unless I have missed them
[15:21] <lesshaste> can you see any?
[15:21] <ikonia> not got an ubuntu box booted to check
[15:21] <lesshaste> ok
[15:21] <lesshaste> I don't suppose there are any devs about
[15:22] <ikonia> they will pick up the bug report
[15:22] <lordievader> lesshaste: Those are usually in #kubuntu-devel, but in the weekend it is usually rather quiet.
[15:22] <lesshaste> ok thanks
[15:22] <ikonia> make sure you have it set to alert you when people respond to it
[15:22] <lesshaste> what has the nerd world come to!
[15:22] <ikonia> that way you can respond to questions/requests for info quick
[15:22] <lesshaste> weekends used to be key developing time :)
[15:30] <lesshaste> ikonia,  my general experience is that nothing comes of reporting bugs
[15:31] <lesshaste> see https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=61494#c4 for example
[15:31] <lesshaste> amongst many dozens of bugs I have reported over the years
[15:33] <ikonia> lesshaste: report a bug - good info and follow it up, and you'll find it gets sorted
[15:33] <ikonia> logging a bug and just magically expecting it to happen - won't
[15:33] <lesshaste> ikonia, no I don't find that :)
[15:33] <lesshaste> what more info could I possibly have provided?
[15:33] <lesshaste> it has been confirmed by others too
[15:34] <ikonia> lesshaste: I'd get it confirmed, and get them to add input into thaht bug
[15:34] <ikonia> eg; confirming the same/differences
[15:35] <ikonia> I'd look at what package that repo comes from - see where that comes from eg: debian or ubuntu specific and look at how to interact with that team
[15:35] <ikonia> I'd look for alternative versions and confirm if they work/don't work
[15:35] <ikonia> feeding all this into the bug repot with no "chat" but just valid information so its easy to read
[15:35] <ikonia> does the 32bit version have the same problem
[15:35] <ikonia> if you do a clean install - does it have the same problem
[15:36] <ikonia> have you verifed your systems hardware, eg: a memtests
[15:36] <ikonia> loads that can be done to move it along
[15:36] <lesshaste> installing the debug symbols!
[15:36] <lesshaste> which I just can't work out how to do
[15:36] <ikonia> there may not be a package for it
[15:36] <ikonia> so don't get hung up on it
[15:36] <ikonia> lots more (as I suggested) that can be done
[15:48] <lesshaste> ikonia, I reported a ubuntu bug
[15:48] <ikonia> super
[15:48] <lesshaste> but as I say, it would be more helpful is the back trace were more informative
[16:51] <CharlieTheCabbie> Hi all.  Can someone please advise me how to authorize root to login directly at the start of a KDE Session?  Thanks
[16:52] <CharlieTheCabbie> I tried a little while ago at the start of this session and it said "root logins are not allowed".  Well they must be somewhere, I just need to know where to switch them on :)
[17:11] <BluesKaj> CharlieTheCabbie, http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2227358
[17:15] <CharlieTheCabbie> Thank you BluesKaj
[17:17] <CharlieTheCabbie> Ok, seems that's not going to be of any use to me whatsoever.  I want help to do it, not pointing at the fact that you won't do it :)
[17:17] <CharlieTheCabbie> I'll have to google for it. Sorry
[17:24] <CharlieTheCabbie> Well, that didn't take long to sort out.  One quick google, job done.
[18:05] <lyakh> hi. Updated from 12 to 14 on an i3 with reasonable parameters - 4G RAM etc. The system slowed down to a croll. Switching to a new task takes ages etc. most search hits refer to graphics slowness, but this doesn't seem to be related to graphics. feels like cpufreq throttling, but sysfs says all CPUs were running with max freq. Just switched to "performance" governor and it does seem to have helped... Is 3.13 known to have a problem with the onde
[18:05] <lyakh> mand governor?
[18:06] <lyakh> although even now it doesn't feel quite as smooth as under 12
[18:14] <lordievader> lyakh: What is the load? Is the system swapping?
[18:14] <lyakh> lordievader: nah, all relaxed. nothing intensive. just basic typing in a dozen of apps
[18:15] <lyakh> lordievader: swap is practically unused, whereas the execution of the "free" command in konsole took like 5 seconds...
[18:15] <lordievader> lyakh: How does the output of 'vmstat 1' look like?
[18:17] <lyakh> lordievader: well, it makes a couple more context switches, than what I would expect from a system with this kind of a load while just staring at vmstat...
[18:18] <lyakh> lordievader: somewhere around 2000 per second, but that's not that critical either, or is it?
[18:18] <lordievader> lyakh: I was more aiming at the cpu time statistics.
[18:19] <lyakh> lordievader: mostly idle with some waiting
[18:20] <lordievader> How much io wait?
[18:20] <lyakh> lordievader: anywhere between 5 and 60, with average hardly above 10
[18:21] <lyakh> but actually I'm surprised but loadavg... more than 2 atm
[18:21] <lordievader> 60 is rather hight...
[18:21] <lordievader> high*
[18:22]  * lordievader dislikes slow internet connection
[18:22]  * lyakh installs iotop
[18:22] <lyakh> the HDD is spinning indeed...
[18:27] <lyakh> hmm... baloo??
[18:32] <lyakh> just disable desktop search? that doesn't sound quite right, it's not just desktop, it's all files
[18:34] <lyakh> cool, the HDD is back down to idle:) damn user-friendliness :-D
[18:35] <lyakh> lordievader: thanks for the tip!
[19:40] <dinosaur> Tried luck on Ubuntu channel, but no response :
[19:40] <dinosaur> Hi. Ubuntu Server 12.04 - tried to install (apt-get install ) a variety of applications and seems that files which are shipped to users' directories have always set root ownership. Examples: apt-get install firefox, apt-get install fluxbox. It seems that it is not the case for Kubuntu. Can you explain it?
[20:24] <lordievader> lyakh: Less slowdowns now baloo is killed?
[20:34] <BluesKaj> i just don't enable the search
[20:35] <lyakh> lordievader: back to normal, yes, just perfect :)
[20:36] <lyakh> yep, I'd be interested to know - how many percent of users actually benefit from those searches...
[20:37] <lordievader> lyakh: Those who do a lot of searching around ;)
[20:37] <lordievader> But good to hear :)
[20:37] <OerHeks> lyakh, if i want to use it, i would start to make the 50 mb cache bigger
[20:38] <lyakh> yes, I mean, some probably use that and benefit from it. But if 1% need it and 99% suffer from it...
[20:40] <andy123> True. I mainly search with the "find" command, which does not benefit from baloo
[20:40] <lyakh> exactly
[20:41] <Xenoth> How can I set up Kubuntu so that I can change my KMix volume in games that capture mouse and keyboard?
[20:44] <andy123> Xenoth: I am not 100% sure, but its probably impossible
[20:44] <andy123> at least without minimizing the game
[20:45] <Xenoth> A while ago I heard something about patching SDL.
[20:45] <ovidiu-florin> Xenoth: laptop?
[20:46] <ovidiu-florin> Fn+F* doesn't do the trick?
[20:46] <Xenoth> Nope.
[20:46] <ovidiu-florin> that's odd
[20:47] <Xenoth> Ah who am I kidding - it just did in a windowed mode
[20:47] <Xenoth> Might not work in fullscreen, lemme see
[20:49] <Xenoth> I can't adjust it in a fullscreen program.
[20:49] <andy123> see also https://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php?f=111&t=121907
[20:50] <andy123> this seems to be a limitation of the xserver
[20:51] <BluesKaj> Xenoth, don't your games have a vol ctl , if so crank alsamixer or kmix to the max then controll the volume from the gsmr or if equipped from the KB
[20:51] <BluesKaj> from the game
[20:51] <Xenoth> Yeah, that's a solution, I guess. I'd rather my hotkeys work though ;D
[20:52] <Xenoth> I guess I'll go back to alttabbing out of it and adjusting there, then going back :(
[20:53] <andy123> see also: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=323528 Wayland promises to fix things
[20:53] <Xenoth> Honestly, I guess it's not that big of an issue. Windowed games work better on my GPU anyway, heheh
[20:54] <andy123> the keygrabbing is a big security issue
[20:58] <BluesKaj> andy123, do you know of anyone running wayland/xwayland ?
[20:59] <andy123> BluesKaj: no
[20:59] <andy123> most applications have not been ported yet
[21:00] <BluesKaj> andy123, right , I hear a lot of talk about it, but not much action on the part of the devs
[21:02] <andy123> BluesKaj: I guess there is lots of action going on, companies are involved with its development
[21:04] <lordievader> BluesKaj: I think there is more development in Wayland than there is in Xorg.
[21:05] <BluesKaj> andy123, I sure hope so, and this switch to plasma 5 isn't my cuppa tea so far on 15.04 , so they're busy trying fix that as well
[21:05] <andy123> BluesKaj: True, I guess wayland will not be a full xserver replacement for at least 3-5 years
[21:06] <andy123> but I already played supertuxkart on it, with some bugs
[21:06] <BluesKaj> lots of users seem to really like plasma 5, maybe I will once some new theme packs are available
[21:08] <andy123> I have plasma5 installed, but its buggy right now
[21:08] <BluesKaj> yeah itesting 15.04 on a laptop atm


[18:20] <intheclouddan[m]> can anyone assist with how to install python rpmUtils on Ubuntu?  Pip isn't finding it


 Back in a sec (and see you in the meeting)
[06:51] <didrocks> salut seb128, ça va :)
[07:00] <seb128> didn't have the best night and tired as a result but alright otherwise!
[07:13] <rs2009> hi everyone :)
[07:43] <duflu> Hi rs2009
[07:48] <luna__> hi
[12:58] <lissyx> seb128, https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1018075 has been marked as close, do you have a ubuntu bug to track ?
[12:59] <lissyx> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/speech-dispatcher/0.11.2-2
[13:00] <lissyx> kinetic upload
[13:01] <seb128> lissyx, right, I synced to kinetic, we will need to SRU to jammy also
[13:01] <seb128> lissyx, there is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/1987979
[13:01] <seb128> but I will probably open a new bug about the ''lists no voice' issue, easier to track the stable update
[14:18] <seb128> k, back for a quick rls bugs review for those interested!
[14:18] <seb128> kenvandine, ^
[14:18] <seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-kk-incoming-bug-tasks.html
[14:18] <seb128> bug #1699942
[14:19] <seb128> it's a bug from 2017 which julian recently tagged but I don't really see signs from it being a rls issue
[14:19] <seb128> I would tag it notfixing
[14:23] <seb128> done that and that's it for kinetic
[14:23] <seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-jj-incoming-bug-tasks.html
[14:23] <seb128> bug #1956835
[14:25] <seb128> the duplicates are from J but we aren't installing zsys by default there so I wonder if those were mistriaged
[14:25] <kenvandine> hey seb128
[14:25] <seb128> they don't seem updated system
[14:25] <seb128> we should talk to bdmurray about it
[14:26] <seb128> bug #1965094
[14:26] <luna__> MIR meeting in #ubuntu-meeting soon
[14:27] <seb128> sounds like a bug for tseliot, I will assign to him
[14:28] <seb128> bug #1968588
[14:29] <seb128> that was nominated bug we forgot to untag, I did that now
[14:29] <seb128> others are already discussed issues to triage, I will do a bit of that later
[14:29] <kenvandine> that's a nasty one
[14:29] <seb128> and that's it for J and for this round, need to go to another meeting
[14:29] <seb128> kenvandine, the zsys one?
[14:31] <kenvandine> ubuntu drivers
[14:32] <kenvandine> thousands of duplicates


[03:53] <lotuspsychje> good morning to all
[05:34] <akemlenovo> Good morning.
[05:36] <akemlenovo> I was thinking about that fact that a good Linux system should use all available RAM for this or that, but then it doesn't make sense at some point when you have lots of RAM and if the system is mainly idleing.
[05:38] <daftykins> depends if it's accurately predicting what you might do next
[05:39] <daftykins> also, good morn indeed!
[05:42] <akemlenovo> daftykins, But it may not need much RAM if i just do some text editing or small shell stuff. So in that case there is no point to use the free memory.
[05:42] <akemlenovo> But i understand there could be cases it will cache large files or do some other background process.
[05:42] <daftykins> yeah, horses for courses
[05:45] <daftykins> but also there's probably no harm at the same time
[05:46] <daftykins> what might seem like work to us isn't really a big deal on the hardwares time surely
[05:49] <akemlenovo> daftykins, What i feel like, with a computer that will predict my usage, is that it gets out of my control sort of...also that things gets more and more complicated but ofc it's supposed to be for the best.
[05:50] <akemlenovo> I think i like stupid machines instead of AI powered supercomputers :P
[05:50] <daftykins> i know what you mean, i still remember Windows 95 stealing my lovely DOS from me
[05:51] <akemlenovo> Hehe yeah that must be that same idea :P
[05:51] <daftykins> before that i kinda knew every file on the disk - but that day ended, then 95 was set to autostart and oooy
[05:51] <daftykins> felt like the end of an era at that time
[05:54] <daftykins> ooh there's new Titanic footage out - https://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2019/08/22/titanic-dives-footage-decomposition-na-lon-orig.cnn/video/playlists/around-the-world/
[06:01] <akemlenovo> Feels like treasure hunter with the Titanic :)
[06:09] <akemlenovo> Too bad we don't see what some of the inside looks like, they must have filmed parts of that too with their submarine drone.
[06:12] <akemlenovo> Found some shots https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pun18bi_0-g ;)
[06:14] <daftykins> \o/
[06:15] <daftykins> oh that's an old one though
[06:15] <daftykins> apparently this latest one used fancy 4K cameras, so that'll be a treat if they go to the same spots
[06:18] <lordievader> Good morning
[06:26] <daftykins> heya
[06:27] <akemlenovo> Good morning.
[06:28] <lordievader> Hey akemlenovo
[07:27] <EoflaOE> good morning evertyone
[07:27] <EoflaOE> everyone*
[07:28] <lordievader> Morning EoflaOE
[07:28] <EoflaOE> Good morning lordievader
[07:29] <lordievader> How are you doing/
[07:29] <lordievader> ?
[07:31] <EoflaOE> I am doing fine. And you?
[07:33] <EoflaOE> And do you know that Ubuntu has entered a feature freeze?
[07:34] <daftykins> 19.10 at least? eh if it's not LTS, yawn ;)
[07:35]  * lordievader is not really up to date with the ubuntu release cycle
[07:35] <lordievader> .10 is never an LTS release.
[07:36] <EoflaOE> daftykins and lordievader: I am talking about Ubuntu Eoan Ermine
[07:36] <daftykins> yeah so 19.10
[07:36] <EoflaOE> Yes.
[07:36] <daftykins> roll on 20.04
[07:38] <EoflaOE> daftykins: Yes, I will look at the 20.04 schedule after 19.10 releases. Check my blog for explanation: https://eofla.wordpress.com/2019/08/22/ubuntu-eoan-ermine-has-reached-the-feature-freeze/
[07:38] <daftykins> err explanation of what?
[07:38] <daftykins> the title is all that needs to be read xD
[07:41] <guiverc> G'day EoflaOE
[07:41] <EoflaOE> Hello guiverc
[07:41] <EoflaOE> daftykins: Explanation about the feature freeze.
[07:42] <lordievader> It is pretty much self-explanatory, right?
[07:44] <EoflaOE> lordievader: Yes, so the blog post is pretty short.
[07:57] <daftykins> yeah i know what the term means :)
[07:57] <EoflaOE> OK.
[08:47] <lotuspsychje> hey EoflaOE
[08:47] <Rojola> hi
[08:47] <lotuspsychje> hey Rojola
[08:47] <Rojola> lotuspsychje, so, what's the answer? ;)
[08:47] <lotuspsychje> Rojola: re-ask here please
[08:47] <EoflaOE> hello lotuspsychje, how are you doing and how is the kernel?
[08:48] <lotuspsychje> EoflaOE: we found the issue with the developer, it was realtek module eth r8169 making it flicker
[08:49] <EoflaOE> lotuspsychje: And how is Ethernet related to flickering? Is the bug reported?
[08:49] <lotuspsychje> EoflaOE: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-hwe/+bug/1838644
[08:50] <lotuspsychje> EoflaOE: im not certain what will happen from now..maybe they will push a commit?
[08:50] <EoflaOE> lotuspsychje: Thanks. Looking at it.
[08:50] <lotuspsychje> EoflaOE: the solution is not described in my bug yet
[08:51] <EoflaOE> lotuspsychje: OK. I have one more question, does the Dell Optiplex 7060 contain this Ethernet r8169? It's okay if unknown.
[08:52] <lotuspsychje> EoflaOE: is there a specific bug you are talking about?
[08:54] <EoflaOE> lotuspsychje: I don't think so, because Optiplex 7060 can't have r8169. Only Intel Ethernet.
[08:54] <lotuspsychje> EoflaOE: keep in mind my flickering bug is specific to clevo laptops (for now) we did not find other brands yet
[08:55] <EoflaOE> lotuspsychje: OK Thanks.
[09:02] <EoflaOE> lotuspsychje: I think the importance of the bug should be the highest possible. Am I right?
[09:03] <lotuspsychje> EoflaOE: i dont think so, as this is only on this combination of hardware on clevo
[09:04] <EoflaOE> lotuspsychje: Thanks. Good thing I don't own Clevo and I don't have Ethernet; only WiFi.
[09:04] <lotuspsychje> EoflaOE: we do have other bugs with realtek and kernel 5.0 though..
[09:05] <lotuspsychje> EoflaOE: for example https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1841040
[09:05] <lordievader> It is always a dissapointment when you find that your motherboard has a realtek chipset -.-
[09:06] <lotuspsychje> lordievader: indeed, and the bad news is, i cant pick another eth chipset, its built in from factory on this model
[09:06] <EoflaOE> lotuspsychje: Yes. lordievader: Yes. My d-link wifi adapter has Realtek.
[09:06] <lordievader> That is usually the case nowadays.
[09:07] <lordievader> Though on a desktop you can opt for a pci(-e) card.
[09:07] <lotuspsychje> lordievader: the good news the devs found what its about, so perhaps good for few next kernels :p
[09:08] <lotuspsychje> lordievader EoflaOE related to: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=109215
[09:14] <EoflaOE> lotuspsychje: Yes. So that explains everything.
[09:14] <daftykins> honestly, shame on Linux if in a desktop you have to throw in a NIC because they can't drive the onboard properly
[09:15] <lotuspsychje> +1
[09:15] <lotuspsychje> very uncomfy for my existing users on LTS
[09:18] <lordievader> lotuspsychje: Have you tested 5.3-rc?
[09:18] <lotuspsychje> yes sir
[09:19] <lotuspsychje> no flickering there
[09:19] <lotuspsychje> the only kernels flickering are 4.19 and 5.0
[09:20] <lotuspsychje> lordievader: but i got a workaround now, and the dev know whats it about so..
[09:20] <lotuspsychje> my job is done
[10:30] <marcoagpinto> Heya
[10:59] <lotuspsychje> !test
[11:00] <daftykins> wow still no bot?
[11:00] <lotuspsychje> i reported it, seems still away
[11:00] <lotuspsychje> +1 is working
[11:01] <marcoagpinto> lotuspsychje!
[11:01] <lotuspsychje> plz no cola today
[11:01] <marcoagpinto> I have spent ~4 hours working on the GB speller
[11:01] <marcoagpinto> :)
[11:16] <marcoagpinto> guys?!
[11:17] <marcoagpinto> will someday the window icon allow higher sizes?
[11:17] <marcoagpinto> for example, instead of 16x16 accept 24x24 or 32x32 when 4K becomes standard
[11:17] <marcoagpinto> and SVG icons for it
[11:17] <daftykins> oh for high DPI application icons, hmm
[11:18] <marcoagpinto> I wanted to suggest it also for MS Windows but they never reply to my suggestions in the forum :(((((((((
[11:19] <marcoagpinto> I need to win the EuroMillions and pay to Microsoft for they to implement my suggestions
[11:19] <marcoagpinto> :)
[11:19] <marcoagpinto> they=them*
[11:20] <daftykins> just found this looking around - https://blogs.windows.com/windowsdeveloper/2017/05/19/improving-high-dpi-experience-gdi-based-desktop-apps/#chm4wVvLCg2ktFzC.97
[11:20] <marcoagpinto> ahhhhhhhh
[11:20] <marcoagpinto> let me check
[11:20] <daftykins> honestly i don't think what you're saying is something they've not heard of
[11:21] <daftykins> scaling for instance, which is sort of related, still seems to be handled pretty poorly across all OSs
[11:21] <marcoagpinto> well, only if someone gives him $$$ they will implement
[11:21] <marcoagpinto> :)
[11:21] <marcoagpinto> him=them*
[11:21] <marcoagpinto> sorry for the typos... I am brain-toasted
[11:22] <marcoagpinto> daftykins: that is why I suggested SVG
[11:22] <marcoagpinto> :)
[11:22] <marcoagpinto> vectorised images
[11:22] <daftykins> yeah, i know about SVGs... but that's not relevant to the type of scaling i'm talking about there
[11:22] <daftykins> i mean when people find 1:1 too 'small' so they set 125%, 150% or even 200% scaling on their desktop to make UI elements larger
[11:23] <daftykins> if i had a 4K display i'd probably still run 1:1 for the increased 'real-estate'
[11:23] <daftykins> as it is i'm still running my 11 year old 1920x1200 LCDs :)
[11:35] <marcoagpinto> :)
[11:49] <BluesKaj> Howdy all
[11:49] <marcoagpinto> BluesKaj: Hello!
[11:49] <marcoagpinto> >:)
[11:50] <BluesKaj> hi marcoagpinto
[19:23] <OerHeks> TFH time
[19:23] <OerHeks> tin foil hat


[07:58] <dpm> good morning all
[07:58] <andrejz> morning
[07:58] <dpm> hey andrejz :)
[07:58] <artnay> hi dpm
[07:59] <artnay> dpm: chrome upstream importing overwrited (once again) chromium translations, should I file a bug against LP itself?
[07:59] <artnay> I did /q to fta but he hasn't replied yet
[08:00] <artnay> I've fixed many oopsies made by chrome translator(s) (hired by google, I guess) but chrome imports have overwrited those fixes
[08:00] <artnay> hence those translations are now wrong in both chrome and chromium
[08:01] <artnay> grr, chrome translators should review the changes made in rosetta and take those to upstream when suitable
[08:02] <artnay> I'm pretty sure this problem exists in all languages that chromium is translated into
[08:03] <artnay> henninge:
[08:03] <andrejz> @artnay: probably languages without official google translations are better off
[08:05] <dpm> hi artnay, just tell fta on #ubuntu-mozillateam, with the exact details. afaik, the setup he's got is explicitly to overcome this problem
[08:12] <artnay> I wonder if this affects other projects as well
[08:13] <andrejz> hm, artnay i am looking at it right now and it seems some strange strings arrived on 2011-01-10
[08:14] <artnay> andrejz: chromium strings update approximately once a week
[08:14] <andrejz> but i am not sure whether these were untranslated strings, which were automatically translated from upstream or if our strings were overwritten
[08:15] <artnay> a lot of new strings appear and unused ones gets tossed away
[08:15] <andrejz> yeah, we noticed that. maintaining chromium translations is rather difficult due to high rate of changes
[08:16] <andrejz> i can see that a lot of strings we have changed in launchpad haven't been overwritten
[08:30] <henninge> artnay: reading
[08:57] <henninge> artnay: sorry, distracted
[08:57] <henninge> artnay: this is bug 740225, I am sorry.
[08:57] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 740225 in launchpad "The differences between New and Translated for upstreams was removed (affects: 2) (heat: 27)" [Undecided,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/740225
[08:58] <artnay> henninge: I don't know if that's the case... and even if it is, it's plain wrong
[08:58] <henninge> artnay: what do you mean
[08:58] <artnay> Rosetta states that differences between rosetta and upstream will be held in Rosetta
[08:59] <artnay> but, umh, which one is upstream? chrome or chromium?
[08:59] <henninge> I don't understand
[08:59] <artnay> henninge: this way we can't fix the errors made by Google's translators
[08:59] <artnay> sure we can file bugs against chromium issues but they don't tend to get fixed
[09:00] <henninge> artnay: that will only work between Ubuntu packages and upstream projects which are hosted in Launchpad.
[09:00] <artnay> for example in Chrome it says my connection to LP is secured by 128 byte encryption
[09:00] <artnay> so I fixed it in chromium to be 128 bits
[09:00] <artnay> and during the last import the fix got overwritten
[09:01] <henninge> artnay: not between projects hosted in Launchpad and upstream projects hosted elsewhere.
[09:01] <henninge> artnay: yes, that is bug 740225
[09:01] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 740225 in launchpad "The differences between New and Translated for upstreams was removed (affects: 2) (heat: 27)" [Undecided,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/740225
[09:02] <artnay> sorry to hear that. it basically makes fixing a pita/impossible
[09:02] <artnay> unless the Google translators review the changes and fix it in Chrome
[09:02] <henninge> artnay: yup, I am sorry but that is correct.
[09:04] <henninge> artnay: the only way to get that would be to do the translations in Ubuntu:
[09:04] <henninge> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+source/chromium-browser
[09:05] <henninge> why is there an extra "translations" series on chromium-browser???
[09:07] <artnay> henninge: fta2 said it shouldn't be that way
[09:07] <henninge> what way?
[09:07] <henninge> the series or doing it in Ubuntu?
[09:09] <henninge> artnay: ^
[09:09] <artnay> henninge: series
[09:12] <artnay> I'll file a bug later today about this
[09:12] <artnay> if there are chromium translators here who are also affected by this, it would be great if you could confirm
[09:14] <henninge> artnay: I agree about the series. Is that what you want to file a bug about?
[09:16] <artnay> henninge: basically the bug would be "in chromium, don't overwrite changes made in LP when doing upstream import"
[09:17] <artnay> it makes fixing impossible without Google's help
[09:18] <artnay> don't get me wrong, I'd like to see those fixes in Chrome as well
[09:19] <henninge> artnay: I understand taht
[09:19] <henninge> that
[09:21] <henninge> artnay: in the bug you should make clear that you are aware of bug 740225 and that you seek a different solution (i.e. translating on the source package although chromium-browser is not in main)
[09:21] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 740225 in launchpad "The differences between New and Translated for upstreams was removed (affects: 2) (heat: 27)" [Undecided,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/740225
[09:21] <artnay> henninge: I'll try to be precise with my bug report (will include screenshots, that bug # etc.)
[09:22] <henninge> artnay: I don't think screenshots are necessary.
[09:22] <artnay> thanks for looking up at that bug (again, you already did it before ;-))
[09:22] <henninge> artnay: you don't need to explain much about what is going on because that bug already does that.
[09:22] <artnay> henninge: with screenshots I'm able to show a) original translator (fta) and time b) string c) my fix (name and date)
[09:23] <henninge> artnay: yes, but we are already aware that strings get overwritten. You do not need to proof that.
[09:23] <henninge> artnay: you can kick off the finding of a different solution, though.
[09:24] <artnay> henninge: ok, no screenshots. fta2 was asking for those wrongly translated strings
[09:24] <artnay> with dates one could track back to upstream imports
[09:24] <henninge> artnay: that would include keeping the upstream translation in the project and the LP translations in the source package.
[09:25] <henninge> artnay: that is something the Ubuntu people like dpm will have to comment on.
[09:25] <henninge> because chromium-browser is not in main.
[09:26] <henninge> artnay: oh, I forgot
[09:26] <henninge> artnay: fta has his machinery outside of LP doing stuff.
[09:26] <dpm> artnay, henninge, there will be no translatable ubuntu source package for chromium, as long as it remains in universe
[09:26] <dpm> fta explicitly created all his machinery to overcome that issue
[09:27] <henninge> dpm: yes, I just rememberd
[09:27] <artnay> I've seen fta's flow charts, gee... :-)
[09:27] <artnay> no wonder if stuff like this happens
[09:27] <henninge> artnay: ok but then this is not a new bug for LP to report
[09:29] <artnay> henninge: andrejz said their fixes aren't being overwritten so something is quite fishy here
[09:29] <artnay> I'm seeing all my fixes (being the only active chromium translator) being overwritten
[09:29] <artnay> in Finnish, of course... *g*
[09:30] <andrejz> Well, i checked for a couple of strings which we have changed and those weren't overwritten
[09:31] <andrejz> it's also possible those strings have been accepted in upstream chromium and are not intact
[09:31] <andrejz> now*
[09:31] <artnay> andrejz: when were those strings originally fixed?
[09:31] <andrejz> sometime in december 2010
[09:32] <artnay> andrejz: ok, I have to check if any fixes from 2010 are still as-is. all fixes from 2011 have been overwritten.
[09:33] <andrejz> new launchpad rollout was around January 20th
[09:33] <artnay> yep
[09:33] <andrejz> so maybe that's when strings started to be overwritten
[09:34] <artnay> andrejz: well #740225 was probably released in 2011
[09:34] <artnay> it saddens me to see regressions like this in both LP and transifex
[09:36] <andrejz> me too. it takes a lot of work to fix this and can seriously demotivate contributors
[10:00] <henninge> artnay, andrejz: Can either of you point me to fta's blog where he posted his flow chart?
[10:01] <andrejz> http://ftagada.wordpress.com/2011/02/10/chromium-translations-explained-part-2b/
[10:01] <andrejz> http://ftagada.wordpress.com/2011/01/23/chromium-translations-explained-part-2/
[10:01] <andrejz> http://ftagada.wordpress.com/2011/01/19/chromium-release-management-explained/
[10:02] <andrejz> http://ftagada.wordpress.com/2011/01/08/chromium-translations-explained-part-1/
[10:06] <henninge> andrejz: thanks
[10:07] <artnay> In Basque, some time ago I made a typo and translated the word .Offer. (in .generated resources.) with the word .Eskaiki.. It should be .Eskaini.. Now, each time a correct the mistake in Launchpad (4 times by now), the next day I got the mistaken word again in Launchpad.
[10:08] <artnay> It.s a restriction i had to add because Launchpad now overwrites the LP contributed strings when there is an upstream update, even unrelated, in the template, which happens almost every day in Chromium.
[10:08] <artnay> As I said, if the problem is ever solved in Launchpad, I should be able to remove this restriction.
[10:09] <artnay> it seems that LP/something now thinks upstream strings as "updates" to those strings which have been corrected in LP
[10:09] <artnay> that's a major drawback
[10:11] <artnay> basically makes correcting impossible unless Google's translator(s) fix their own oopsies
[10:12] <artnay> we can file those translations oopsies at chromium issues but as has been said, they don't tend to fix their own oopsies (or if they do, it takes a lot of time)
[10:12] <artnay> More seriously, I had to make some choices. The most important one is that for the .updated in Launchpad. strings, I always prefer those over the upstream translations. The drawback is that it is no longer possible to return to an upstream translation once it diverged. I consider it a small price to pay at the moment, but maybe it will have to be revisited one day.
[10:30] <artnay> http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=1528 this is one of the best examples I could find. totally wrong translation, reported 2,5 years ago, not fixed in Chrome, fixed in Chromium, gets overwritten.
[10:32] <artnay> I'll file a bug at Chromium issues, something like "co-operate with Chromium translators, review their changes and commit into Chrome where appropriate"
[12:54] <andrejz> hello! i am wondering if anyone is experincing a problem in indicator date-time
[12:54] <andrejz> "Add event ..." appears untranslated
[12:54] <andrejz> does any other team experience this
[12:54] <andrejz> ?
[14:17] <dpm> andrejz, I've noticed that too, but I thought it'd be because translations have not been shipped yet.
[14:17] <dpm> If that is not the case, would you mind filing a bug?
[14:17] <andrejz> well that was my question actually :) do i need to fill a bug or will it resolve by it self (when translations ship)?
[14:18] <dpm> andrejz, is the string translatable in LP?
[14:18] <dpm> if it is, you can test this:
[14:18] <dpm> 1. Export the translation as mo file from LP
[14:19] <dpm> 2. Rename the exported mo file to indicator-datetime.mo if necessary
[14:20] <dpm> 3. sudo cp indicator-datetime.mo /usr/share/locale-langpack/sl/LC_MESSAGES
[14:20] <dpm> 4. Log out of the session
[14:20] <dpm> 5. Log back in again and check if "Add event..." is now translated
[14:21] <dpm> I need to step out for a while, but I'll check the log when I come back if there is anything else
[14:21] <dpm> Oh, and 6. If it is not translated, please consider filing a bug
[14:22] <dpm> :-)
[14:46] <andrejz> @dpm: it works, so it's not a bug
[15:09] <dpm> andrejz, great, thanks for testing :)
[15:10] <andrejz> glad to help
[19:13] <artnay> do you have "Launcher & Menus" untranslated?
[19:13] <artnay> is it even marked for translations?
[19:43] <artnay> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-translations/+bug/757884
[19:43] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 757884 in ubuntu-translations "No translation template for "Launcher & Menus" (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New]
[19:43] <artnay> to which package does it belong?


[00:25] <ToyKeeper> Cheri703: If you're car-free, Denver might not be the greatest place to live...
[00:27] <Cheri703> I've heard mixed opinions. when I visited last month I used the bus to get around, and it was fine. I have a recumbent trike with an electric assist, so that'll get me around pretty well too.
[00:28] <ToyKeeper> Its public transit is pretty lacking compared to most big cities, and during the winter it can be extremely unpleasant going by foot or bike sometimes.
[00:28] <ToyKeeper> However, if you limit yourself to specific areas where the transit is available, it should be okay.
[00:28] <Cheri703> Coming from a small town in Ohio, and last winter I commuted to my (horrible) job on my trike through the ENTIRE winter, it'll be ok :) There's a bus system here, but it is VERY limited
[00:31] <ToyKeeper> :)
[00:31] <Cheri703> I like to joke around about the fact that it is *actually* uphill both ways for me to walk downtown from my house, and I will tell my nephew stories when he's older about "walking up hill both ways in the snow, just to <random errand>"
[00:32] <ToyKeeper> I'm pretty fond of Fort Collins.  If I leave, it won't be for Denver, but to somewhere with more humid and consistent weather instead.
[00:32] <Cheri703> my trip in Jnauary was my first time ever in CO, I hope to explore the state more once I move out there :)
[00:33] <Cheri703> I moved to ohio from california when I was a kid (thanks parents), and I have been here almost 20 years, and I have *never* gotten acclimated to the humid summers. I have so much trouble breathing :/
[00:34] <Cheri703> so dry summers will be a welcome change :)
[00:38] <joey> Cheri703: one of the many reasons I moved to Colorado from NY
[00:39] <joey> Cheri703: it was always overcast, humid, and for several weeks a year we had no power or water due to storms
[00:39] <Cheri703> Yeah, my parents live in western NY, and I have been there in july and august, and they don't have a/c >_< SOGGY SOGGY SOGGY and HOT
[00:39] <joey> Cheri703: consequently I used to chop a lot of wood for the wood stove
[00:39] <Cheri703> joey: same for them!
[00:40] <Cheri703> they have a well though, so they're set on water :)
[00:41] <joey> hmm efm...
[00:41] <joey> I recognize those 3 letters
[00:41] <ToyKeeper> Heh, the dry winters here make my sinuses bleed...  and the hot summers make me melt every time I step out of air-conditioned areas.  Our temperature range is from about -20 F to 110 F, and I really prefer about 40 F to 70 F.
[00:42] <joey> efm: sean still around?
[00:42] <ToyKeeper> joey: You're familiar with our local premium Linux service company, Tummy, no?  If so, you probably know efm.
[00:42] <joey> ToyKeeper: actually that's what I love about Colorado
[00:43] <joey> ToyKeeper: yep that's who I thought it was...
[00:43] <ToyKeeper> Colorado springs and falls are nice.  :)
[00:43] <Cheri703> ToyKeeper: yeah, but I've known ohio folks to go out west in the summer, say "hmm, it's probably like...80 with x% humidity, yeah?" and folks go O_O No, it's over 100F, so...it's likely comparable. difference is: evaporative cooling works in dry places, NOT in humid places
[00:43] <joey> I tried to convince Oksana to move to Alaska but she wouldn't have it
[00:43] <joey> then I tried Canada and should wouldn't have it
[00:44] <Cheri703> former roommate moved to alaska, we were talking and she's like "it's only -25f today, it's not bad" I said she was insane
[00:44] <ToyKeeper> Heh, Alaska summers are terrible if you want to go outside.  Hordes of huge mosquitos.
[00:44] <joey> yeah the skeeters are ruthless
[00:45] <joey> they are all the size of half-dollar coins
[00:45] <joey> and they travel in packs like locusts
[00:45] <joey> yay off Monday
[00:46] <ToyKeeper> Oh, hey.  Federal holiday.  Woot!
[00:46] <joey> ok I'm heading out. I think for fun I'm going to work on my sdf.org gopher page
[00:46] <joey> toodles
[00:46] <Cheri703> I'm heading out shortly too. have a good evening folks!
[01:16] <efm> joey: yes, though he's out of town at the moment
[01:17] <efm> Cheri703: what brand of electric trike do you have? I was thinking of swapping my car for one this year
[01:18] <efm> ttyl Cheri703
[01:18] <Cheri703> well, I have a Trident Trikes Spike, and I added a kit from e-bike kit to it. so it's an aftermarket change
[01:18] <Cheri703> (I'm still here, ride hasn't come yet)
[01:18] <efm> ah
[01:18] <Cheri703> I'm hoping to upgrade trike and/or kit at some point soon
[01:18] <efm> Sean got an electric bike last year, and rode it everywhere
[01:18] <Cheri703> you can add e-bike kits to pretty much ANY bike or trike these days
[01:19] <efm> I'm more of a trike speed
[01:19] <efm> hmm
[01:19] <Cheri703> recumbent trikes are THE BEST
[01:19] <Cheri703> LOVE
[01:19] <ToyKeeper> I went on some good rides with Sean on his electric bike.
[01:19] <ToyKeeper> I'm anxious for warmer months to get here so I can ride again.
[01:19] <ToyKeeper> Besides, I have new bike lights to try out when it's warm enough at night to use them.
[01:19] <efm> where I live is so close to the trail system, I could get anywhere in town with an electric
[01:20] <Cheri703> depends on battery, SLA are...crap
[01:20] <efm> It would be so nice to be able to go shopping without a car
[01:20] <ToyKeeper> In the summer, I love to go out riding every night.
[01:20] <Cheri703> also bear in mind that reported mileage will likely be less with a trike: heavier, more rolling resistance with 3 wheels. I was always towing a trailer and live in a hilly town, so I don't get great mileage from mine at the moment.
[01:20] <ToyKeeper> In the winter though...  I have to get by with DDR and other indoor activities.
[01:21] <Cheri703> hoping to either: get a LiFePo4 battery, get a whole new hub WITH LiFePo4 battery, or some other option.
[01:21] <Cheri703> efm: where do you live?
[01:21] <efm> Fort Collins, in the Fossil Creek valley down south
[01:21] <Cheri703> ah, ok :)
[01:22] <efm> I'm only a mile from the second major shopping district, though, so it's eminantly bikeable
[01:22] <Cheri703> nice
[01:22] <efm> oh, the spike folds..thats awesome
[01:23] <Cheri703> efm: most do
[01:23] <Cheri703> icetrikes.co has a nice fold
[01:23] <Cheri703> http://www.hpvelotechnik.com/index_e.html has some nice folders
[01:23] <ToyKeeper> Hmm, I'm not very familiar with LiFePo4 batteries...  though they have come up a few times lately while I searched for Li-Ion cells for LED torches.
[01:23] <Cheri703> ICE trikes are VERY nice
[01:23] <Cheri703> there's actually a dealer outside denver
[01:24] <Cheri703> efm: this one will blow your mind: www.evolvetrikes.com though it's not out yet
[01:24] <Cheri703> ToyKeeper: they're considered the best currently available for e-bikes
[01:24] <Cheri703> great range
[01:24] <Cheri703> efm: if you're curious about recumbents, check out the forums at www.bentrideronline.com
[01:24] <Cheri703> AMAZING resource
[01:24] <Cheri703> what I want eventually is a velomobile :)
[01:25] <ToyKeeper> For now, I'd be happy to find a good skirt guard for my bike.  They're hard to find in the US though.
[01:25] <efm> I just have to head over to http://www.rockymountainrecumbents.com/ some time and do a test ride
[01:26] <Cheri703> ToyKeeper: check out http://letsgorideabike.com/blog/ they have some skirt+bike tips :)
[01:27] <Cheri703> efm: if you were buying, and not in bargain basement price range (that's where the spike is, and where I was when I first got it), I'd HIGHLY recommend at least test riding ICE trikes, they're excellent
[01:27] <Cheri703> though most of the brands that rmr sells are pretty good too :)
[01:27] <efm> thanks Cheri703 I'm not that price constrained, if it's a car replacement (which I'm planning)
[01:27] <Cheri703> hehe, then check out velomobiles :D
[01:28] <Cheri703> they're awesome
[01:28] <efm> the ice trikes look to have a good suspension
[01:28] <Cheri703> sorry, you guys got me on a topic I'm passionate about :)
[01:28] <ToyKeeper> As for a car, I can't really bring myself to care enough to actually buy one instead of using the one my parents gifted me.
[01:28] <efm> HA
[01:28] <Cheri703> efm: yeah, my parents both have ICE Adventure models, I'm eyeing the Sprint
[01:29] <Cheri703> there's a velomobile shell available for the sprint that would be a followup purchase for me :)
[01:29] <Cheri703> http://velomobiles.ca/BorealisV3.html
[01:29] <efm> the video for the ICE Adveture is lovely
[01:29] <Cheri703> the adventure is similar to the sprint, but higher seat
[01:29] <Cheri703> my parents love theirs
[01:29] <Cheri703> I've been lusting after ICE trikes for years
[01:30] <Cheri703> I had a recumbent *bike* years ago (bought it in high school) and realized that the only things I disliked would be solved by having a 3rd wheel, but it took until end of 2011 to finally get myself a trike :) (about 9-10 years later)
[01:32] <Cheri703> alright, well, sorry for rambling about trikes :) my ride is on his way, so I'm off for a while. have a good weekend folks!
[01:37] <efm> you too Cheri703!


[01:04] <taul> buenas
[01:26] <lotus> hi, how to stop from automute-ing my microphone on resume from suspend?
[02:05] <nsgn> goodevening. i need the keychain to unlock automatically upon automatic login. advice? google's not turning up much
[02:05] <nsgn> the reason for this is that vnc won't function because when i make my first attempt at a VNC connection from afar the keychain screen pops up locally...making vnc useless because you have to key the password at the local x session
[02:16] <Unit193> nsgn: If you remove the keychain password it shouldn't pop-up
[02:18] <nsgn> Unit193, that sounds like a plan..but i cant find anywhere in the gui where to manage the keychain?!
[02:19] <nsgn> know the command to launch it? i'm finding that many gnome panels have to be launched this way as xubuntu has no icon for them
[02:19] <nsgn> Unit193, i just cant find where to do it
[02:20] <Unit193> nsgn: http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=9035085&postcount=2
[02:20] <nsgn> i'll give it a shot. thx
[02:26] <nsgn> Unit193, beautiful. thank you much
[02:41] <Unit193> nsgn: glad that helped
[11:03] <xubuntu378> iuuuuhuuu
[11:03] <xubuntu378> sal all
[11:04] <xubuntu378> incerc si eu linux :D
[11:04] <xubuntu378> dar am lasat si xp-ul
[11:05] <xubuntu378> nimeni nu vb :d ?
[11:05] <xubuntu378> am plecat
[11:05] <Sysi> english please
[11:05] <xubuntu378> ca tre ssa termin instalarea sistemului
[11:05] <xubuntu378> ups
[11:05] <xubuntu378> ok
[11:06] <xubuntu378> I go to finish the instalation of the system
[11:06] <xubuntu378> Xubuntu
[11:06] <xubuntu378> :P
[11:10] <leoquant> fingers crossed then......
[13:02] <oxothuk> камрады
[13:02] <oxothuk> как сабж установить по сети?
[13:03] <TheSheep> !ru
[13:03] <psycho_oreos> !ru| oxothuk
[13:03] <oxothuk> ээээ
[13:29] <surreal7z> hey everyone... i need to get login to put a password without shutting down a session... i want to stay connected to internet and that everything works.. but with password login... because I need to get out somewhere :p but my roommates are around
[13:30] <knome> surreal7z, i assume you want to "lock" your session
[13:31] <surreal7z> I want that session works... connected to internet and everything... but with password promt?
[13:31] <surreal7z> maybe thats it... locking current session
[13:31] <surreal7z> I logout... but session ends...
[13:32] <surreal7z> like in windows xp... you can log off while everything works in background
[13:33] <surreal7z> not log off... but swiching users can do that in xp
[13:33] <surreal7z> if you now what I mean
[13:33] <surreal7z> ...
[13:33] <knome> yes, that's called locking the session
[13:33] <surreal7z> how to do that? :p
[13:34] <Sysi> press ctrl alt del
[13:35] <surreal7z> great!
[13:35] <surreal7z> thx very much
[14:05] <xubuntu576> hola a todo hello!
[14:26] <NeoSentient> Hi all :) My wireless has been running straight "out of the box" with fresh install, but I just noticed in my connection properties it is registering as 150mbps connection, the network is 300mbps, is this just a display error or do I need to configure something to utilise full speed wireless?
[14:28] <NeoSentient> Apologies if I'm asking this in the wrong channel, first time user of IRC! ;)
[14:30] <charlie-tca> NeoSentient: If you are using Xubuntu, you are in the right place. We are volunteers, and sometimes we just don't have a good answer to give.
[14:31] <NeoSentient> Okay thankyou ^^
[14:46] <skrite> hey all, what is the name of that program that assists you in installing restricted drivers, like nvidia, etc..
[14:46] <skrite> i seem to have deleted it
[14:46] <charlie-tca> skrite: jockey-gtk
[14:47] <charlie-tca> normally found under Applications -> Systems -> Additional Drivers or Hardware Drivers
[14:48] <skrite> charlie-tca, great, thanks. Yup, would have never guessed the name of that one.
[18:50] <IceGuest_75_> I can't get wireless working on xubuntu on virtualbox
[18:59] <charlie-tca> did you set networking in VBox to use the host networking?
[19:51] <rethus> i miss my panel on the lower edge. How can i reset the complete xfce-desktopsettings?
[19:54] <kronusdark> does anyone know if 10.10 xubuntu will work on an xbox 1? i dont need a gui. links would be very helpful.
[19:55] <Sysi> kronusdark: xUbuntu or Xubuntu?
[19:56] <kronusdark> i was unaware of a difference, i believe its xUbuntu, the one based on xfce, however i dont need xfce, i just want to make the xbox a server.
[19:56] <kronusdark> with ssh access
[19:58] <Sysi> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=79285
[20:00] <kronusdark> i saw a video where someone got it to run on an xbox http://video.yahoo.com/watch/30124/1287393 just not sure HOW they did it
[20:01] <charlie-tca> but that was not Xubuntu, this operating system, it was a different project that used this name with slightly different capitalization
[20:02] <kronusdark> lol, ok thanks for clearing that up.
[20:03] <kronusdark> im sure xbox-linux.org could have cleared this up, but it doesnt appear to be working at the moment
[20:05] <rethus>  i miss my panel on the lower edge. How can i reset the complete xfce-desktopsettings?


[14:35] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::OMG!Ubuntu:: 10 Great New Features in GNOME 3.38, Out Next Week @ https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2020/09/gnome-3-38-new-features (by Joey Sneddon)
[23:57] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::OMG!Ubuntu:: Linux Twitter App Cawbird Adds New Features, Lowers Memory Usage @ https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2020/09/linux-twitter-app-cawbird-adds-new-features-lowers-memory-usage (by Joey Sneddon)


[23:45] <stgraber> hello, can someone please ban user_8865 from #ubuntu-kernel, he's been spamming the channel for quite a few minutes now.
[23:45] <rww> yep, i poked staff about it just now, should be sorted :)
[23:45] <stgraber> thanks
[23:46] <stgraber> indeed he just got disconnected, perfect
[23:46] <k1l> ubuntu/members should have acces there