[00:00] <bigjools> if you alt-f8 (I think) you should see more output
[00:00] <bigjools> it takes a while
[00:00] <bigjools> it downloads some stuff from the repos
[00:01] <TheChistoso> it's been about 30 min.
[00:01] <bigjools> ok
[00:01] <bigjools> it should be around 5-10
[00:01] <TheChistoso> alt-f8 didn't give me anything -- but then again, i'm using it over the bmc and the keystroke may or may not be getting across
[00:01] <bigjools> ok
[00:01] <bigjools> one sec
[00:02] <TheChistoso> i don't suppose you know the default username/password?
[00:02] <bigjools> there isn't one
[00:02] <TheChistoso> (let me guess -- password is generated?)
[00:02] <bigjools> but there's a backdoor image that you can use to commission with that has a user/password set up
[00:02]  * bigjools looks for it
[00:02] <TheChistoso> well i can't ssh w/ the key i provided in my preferences
[00:02] <bigjools> no, you can't log in at all with commissioning
[00:03] <TheChistoso> it's past commissioning
[00:03] <bigjools> it's not - otherwise it would be ready
[00:03] <TheChistoso> it's commissioned -- it's deployed
[00:03] <bigjools> ...
[00:03] <TheChistoso> that is, the OS is installed, cloud-init reported as having completed
[00:03] <bigjools> ok let's get the terminology straight
[00:03] <TheChistoso> lol okay (c:
[00:03]  * mwhudson was going to say :)
[00:04] <bigjools> you were previously at the "ready" state?
[00:04] <TheChistoso> i was at whatever the name for the state is when you've brought up the machine, maas recognizes it, and then i hit "accept & commission" (or "start & commission")
[00:04] <bigjools> that is, it enlisted, powered off, you clicked "accept and commission" and it powered up, did stuff and powered off again
[00:05] <TheChistoso> that ran -- the OS installed, it restarted, there's a login prompt, w/ some output indicating that cloud init completed
[00:05] <bigjools> wait
[00:05] <mwhudson> how did you tell the os installed?
[00:05] <mwhudson> it probably didn't
[00:05] <TheChistoso> i watched the os install
[00:05] <bigjools> on the second boot, did it power down?
[00:06] <bigjools> it is not installing anything when it commissions
[00:06] <bigjools> nothing usable for you anyway
[00:06] <TheChistoso> honestly, there were a few reboots and i'm not sure when it powered down and when it didn't
[00:06] <TheChistoso> yes, i know
[00:06] <bigjools> what state does it say that node has in maas now?
[00:07] <TheChistoso> it starts up and you throw something on there (enough to communicate w/ maas and provide it w/ information so the admin can review and decide to actually proceed)
[00:07] <bigjools> what state does it say that node has in maas now?
[00:07] <TheChistoso> and then when you accept and commission, it reboots, and at that point the OS is actually installed
[00:08] <TheChistoso> status shows "allocated to sysadmin"
[00:08] <Marlinc> But wait if I get it right. If I want MAAS to have another node I just boot it up ones from PXE and MAAS then handles it from then on?
[00:08] <bigjools> ok so your story of events is incorrect somewhere
[00:08] <TheChistoso> i'm telling you exactly what i saw
[00:08] <TheChistoso> (as i recall it, granted :D )
[00:08] <bigjools> TheChistoso: if it says "allocated" you clicked something else
[00:09] <bigjools> can you "ssh ubuntu@<your node>"
[00:09] <bigjools> because you've commissioned it, it shut down, and now you clicked "start"
[00:09] <TheChistoso> yes -- i did forget that step
[00:10] <bigjools> right, so you have an installed node
[00:10] <mwhudson> so is it possible that the node is in fact ready for use?
[00:10] <bigjools> so ssh to the ubuntu user
[00:10] <Marlinc> My node can't be booted up from the network (at least it doesn't seem to work) or another way. What could I do about that? Could the node still work with MAAS
[00:10] <TheChistoso> i can't ssh into the machine
[00:10] <bigjools> Marlinc: without control of PXE/DHCP you cannot use maas
[00:11] <Marlinc> PXE and DHCP work
[00:11] <bigjools> TheChistoso: how are you trying to ssh in?
[00:11] <Marlinc> It cant start from poweroff state
[00:11] <Marlinc> Using WOL
[00:11] <Marlinc> Thats what I mean
[00:12] <bigjools> Marlinc: ok so just power up manually after maas requests a startup
[00:12] <Marlinc> Okay great
[00:12] <bigjools> (in that order, specifically)
[00:12] <bigjools> if you try to boot a node that maas doesn't think should be starting, it'll do weird stuff
[00:13] <TheChistoso> from the maas controller, logged in as "sysadmin" (w/ the same account name configured in maas as a super user and w/ the SSH key registered there that corresponds w/ my unix account), i type: ssh ubuntu@<ip of node>
[00:14] <TheChistoso> i've also tried it on port 2181...
[00:14] <bigjools> did you add your public ssh key to the sysadmin account in maas *before* starting up the node?
[00:14] <bigjools> fwiw, juju makes this stuff much easier
[00:14] <TheChistoso> of course i can't be sure that's the ip of the machine b/c i can't configure it to use a static ip
[00:15] <bigjools> no, you can't because MAAS manages the DNS
[00:15] <TheChistoso> i'd love to use juju w/ this -- but i can't get nodes working in order to use juju w/ it (c:
[00:15] <bigjools> you're looking at the problem incorrectly
[00:15] <bigjools> you have got nodes working, you just think you don't
[00:16] <bigjools> it's a cloud-like resource, not an installer
[00:16] <bigjools> once nodes are at "ready" you just set the API key in environments.yaml etc and then you can use juju
[00:17] <bigjools> are you using maas to manage DNS?
[00:17] <Marlinc> Should a MAAS node have PXE boot as primary boot location?
[00:17] <TheChistoso> yes maas is managing dns
[00:17] <bigjools> Marlinc: you mean in the BIOS?  yes
[00:18] <Marlinc> Okay
[00:18] <TheChistoso> i understand how it's supposed to work
[00:18] <bigjools> TheChistoso: ok so just resolve through there and ignore the IP - the DNS  entry will be the same as the node's name in the MAAS UI
[00:18] <bigjools> the zone file will be named after the cluster's name
[00:20] <TheChistoso> well nslookup doesn't find it - looking at resolv.conf shows that you're not setting up the local machine to use itself for DNS name resolution
[00:22] <bigjools> TheChistoso: no, you have to do that
[00:23] <bigjools> maas cannot set up resolv.conf for machines it doesn't boot, it's set via DHCP
[00:24] <TheChistoso> it can set the machine it's running on's network interfaces
[00:24] <TheChistoso> i'm doing these commands from the same machine that maas is running on
[00:24] <bigjools> that machine is not managed by maas
[00:25] <TheChistoso> at any rate -- i added <IP_ADDRESS> to /etc/network/interfaces, restarted networking, and now i can ssh into the machine
[00:25] <TheChistoso> you would think that maas itself would want to use its own DNS services (c:
[00:25] <bigjools> I just explained why it's how it is
[00:26] <TheChistoso> i understand what you said -- but i simply disagree that maas shouldn't use its own DNS service to resolve names locally
[00:27] <bigjools> I think you don't understand
[00:27] <bigjools> but it;s working so goofd
[00:27] <bigjools> good
[00:27] <TheChistoso> well please explain -- if i truly don't understand something, then a little education would be good (c:
[00:28] <bigjools> I explained above
[00:28] <bigjools> "maas cannot set up resolv.conf for machines it doesn't boot, it's set via DHCP"
[00:28] <TheChistoso> yes i understand all of that
[00:28] <mwhudson> i think i would have been pretty upset if maas had started mutilating the networking of the host i installed it on
[00:28] <bigjools> so you understand why you need to set resolv.conf yourself?
[00:29] <TheChistoso> but when you install maas, you could configure the local machine to resolve against itself
[00:29] <mwhudson> (even if i was using maas-dns, which i'm not)
[00:29] <TheChistoso> at the very least, it would make sense to document this
[00:29] <bigjools> maas should not mess with networking on non-managed machines
[00:29] <bigjools> I agree with the doc
[00:29] <bigjools> we should change it
[00:30] <bigjools> since you had trouble working this out
[00:30] <TheChistoso> it's certainly not immediately obvoius that the reason why something can't transition to ready is that nameservers aren't configured properly
[00:31] <TheChistoso> (assuming this is the ultimate culprit)
[00:31] <bigjools> you are using the state names incorrectly
[00:31] <bigjools> ready is when something is available in the pool
[00:31] <bigjools> not something that's deployed
[00:32] <bigjools> and nameservers configuration has nothing to do with state transitions
[00:32] <mwhudson> TheChistoso: there is no state transition in maas when the node is installed and ready for use
[00:32] <TheChistoso> the maas ui shows the node's deployed -- so what's the next state called that i want to get it to?
[00:32] <Marlinc> I think MAAS isn't a toy but really it feels like it. Especially because I've never worked with PXE and never with machines that boot automatically when needed. Really this is just awesome
[00:32] <mwhudson> it's just "allocated"
[00:32] <Marlinc> I just connected another machine tot the network. Set PXE as default boot mode and enabled WOL
[00:33] <Marlinc> And it works
[00:33] <bigjools> it transitions from "ready" to "allocated" when someone requests a node
[00:33] <TheChistoso> mwhudson: the first screen (i have just 1 node) says "1 node deployed"
[00:33] <bigjools> Marlinc: great!
[00:33] <bigjools> TheChistoso: look at the detail node list
[00:33] <TheChistoso> the entire pie chart is blue
[00:33] <TheChistoso> yes -- that says "allocated"
[00:33] <TheChistoso> so you need to get your verbage consistent
[00:33] <bigjools> the pie chart is geared to managing 1000s of nodes at once
[00:33] <mwhudson> eh, maybe the node list and the pie chart could use the same words...
[00:34] <bigjools> yeah, that's inconsistent
[00:34]  * bigjools files a bug
[00:34] <Marlinc> Wow WOL is just magic
[00:35] <bigjools> Marlinc: WoL is a hack, you can't power down using it
[00:35] <Marlinc> Well okay thats true
[00:35] <bigjools> it suffices for basic testing
[00:36] <TheChistoso> okay, so what would my next steps be?
[00:36] <TheChistoso> i've defined .juju/environments.yaml and i ran juju bootstrap and it tells me that no matching nodes are available
[00:36] <Marlinc> Mmm the second machine doesn't do much but I'm thinking it is a hardware problem because it is a old computer
[00:37] <bigjools> TheChistoso: I presume you only have one node commissioned and it's already in use?
[00:38] <TheChistoso> by "in use" do you mean allocated to a user? then yes (although i'm fuzzy on how a node is allocated to a user -- it is tied to the user that accepts, commissions, and starts the node?)
[00:38] <bigjools> TheChistoso: no, it's the user who "starts" it
[00:38] <TheChistoso> (*is it)
[00:38] <TheChistoso> okay -- that makes sense
[00:38] <bigjools> only admins can accept for commissioning
[00:39] <TheChistoso> (minor feature request, although perhaps it already exists -- auto-accept, commission, and start, assigning it to a default user)
[00:39] <bigjools> that won't be accepted as a feature
[00:39] <bigjools> it's not designed to work like that
[00:39] <bigjools> you need to think cloud-like
[00:40] <Marlinc> It looks like the DNS is not working the way its supposed to work: 2013-05-02 02:39:13,994 ERROR Invalid host for SSH forwarding: ssh: Could not resolve hostname fqehy.master: No such file or director
[00:40] <Marlinc> It is managed at least it should be
[00:40] <Marlinc> My laptop is using the MAAS server's DNS server
[00:41] <bigjools> where's that error from?
[00:41] <Marlinc> Juju
[00:41] <TheChistoso> since these are meant to serve physical machines, makes sense to me that if you've racked, cabled, and powered it up, then you want to commission it.
[00:41] <Marlinc> When I try to run juju status
[00:42] <bigjools> TheChistoso: the commissioning process is more complicated than that in a DC, often people will want to do burn-ins, update firmware etc.
[00:42] <bigjools> Marlinc: can you manually look up that host?
[00:42] <Marlinc> Nope
[00:42] <Marlinc> Or well
[00:42] <Marlinc> It doesn't work
[00:43] <TheChistoso> well my suggestion is for those people who don't want to babysit the process :D
[00:43] <bigjools> can you check to see if it's present in the zone file
[00:43] <Marlinc> Let me take a look
[00:43] <bigjools> TheChistoso: we'll add a mass-accept at some point
[00:43] <TheChistoso> that would be better :D
[00:43] <Marlinc> Where's it stored?
[00:43] <bigjools> Marlinc: under /var/ib/maas IIRC
[00:44] <TheChistoso> okay, so do you think that i'm at the point where i should be able to use juju?
[00:44] <bigjools> TheChistoso: yep
[00:44] <bigjools> you need to release that node
[00:44] <TheChistoso> how do i do that?
[00:44] <bigjools> sadly there's no way in the UI of doing it (don't ask...), you need to use maas-cli
[00:44] <TheChistoso> ah...
[00:45] <Marlinc> Mm there's nothing related to DNS
[00:45] <bigjools> maas-cli does API calls
[00:45] <TheChistoso> can you point this out in the documentation? b/c i did not see it. gotta have my eyes checked...
[00:45] <bigjools> TheChistoso: I think we have gaps in the docs
[00:45] <TheChistoso> this seems like a major one
[00:45] <bigjools> which bit?
[00:46] <TheChistoso> that to actually use a node w/ juju you have to run a command
[00:46] <bigjools> you don't
[00:46] <TheChistoso> ?
[00:46] <TheChistoso> well i'm confused (c:
[00:47] <bigjools> juju will use available nodes on maas
[00:47] <bigjools> but you don't have any available
[00:47] <bigjools> because you started one manually already
[00:47] <TheChistoso> you'll have to slow down there b/c i'm thoroughly confused
[00:47] <bigjools> basically - just don't use "Start" in the UI
[00:48] <TheChistoso> i was just going to ask that
[00:48] <bigjools> it's completely unnecessary
[00:48] <bigjools> juju manages everything
[00:48] <bigjools> even the SSH key
[00:48] <TheChistoso> is that in the docs as well?
[00:48] <bigjools> it's in juju docs I expect
[00:48] <TheChistoso> it's natural, i think, to hit a "start" button when you see it (c:
[00:48] <bigjools> but there's a section on juju in the maas docs IIRC
[00:48] <TheChistoso> i don't recall reading anything that says "don't press that button!"
[00:49] <bigjools> I think the problem here is that you've not really understood how it works from a higher level.  Maybe we need a doc section for that.
[00:49] <TheChistoso> minor feature request: add a label or help text (or something) next to the button in maas when it says 'start" to prevent this from happening
[00:50] <Marlinc> Mmm.. None of the zone files contain any reference to the node bigjools
[00:50] <TheChistoso> i understand how juju is supposed to work (at a high level), but these are small details. c'mon now -- "don't hit start if you want to use it w/ juju"? that seems pretty confusing to anybody starting out.
[00:51] <bigjools> Marlinc: ok that means that something went wrong with parsing the dhcp leases
[00:51] <bigjools> TheChistoso: I think it's only confusing if you don't understand resource allocation concepts in maas
[00:51] <bigjools> Marlinc: please check the celery.log
[00:52] <Marlinc> Sure
[00:52] <bigjools> TheChistoso: which boils down to a higher-level doc that we need to explain these concepts
[00:52] <TheChistoso> given the bad documentation and the fact that i don't work on the product, i don't think it's hard to see why not
[00:53] <bigjools> this support stuff is largely done on an "as best" basis for non-paying customers
[00:53] <TheChistoso> i assumed juju worked w/ already running systems, simply orchestrating services atop already-installed OSes
[00:53] <Marlinc> Okay the're one error in there but it isn't very clear http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/5624546/
[00:53] <bigjools> I think you need to read the juju docs
[00:53] <TheChistoso> your paying customers don't read docs then, eh? (c:
[00:53] <bigjools> TheChistoso: no, they pay for consultants
[00:53] <TheChistoso> have you read your docs recently?
[00:54] <bigjools> You're welcome for the help
[00:54] <bigjools> Marlinc: aha, that's the problem
[00:54] <TheChistoso> i do thank you for your help -- i'm not trying to be ungrateful :/
[00:54] <bigjools> Marlinc: well, an indication of the problem
[00:54] <TheChistoso> but it does seem likely that a newbie (such as myself) has read the docs more recently than somebody working on the product
[00:54] <Marlinc> True
[00:55] <bigjools> TheChistoso: that's very likely
[00:55] <bigjools> the product evolves and things get missed, but the vast majority of people don't have problems
[00:55] <TheChistoso> so that experienmced somebody is trying to warn you that it's confusing.
[00:56] <TheChistoso> how do you know that? my previous attempt had me throwing my hands in the air and moving on to other solutions
[00:56] <TheChistoso> iow, you don't know how many people get frustrated w/ the product and leave w/o saying a word
[00:57] <bigjools> I know from speaking to many people they are happy with it. There will always be people with problems though - this is a complicated product solving a complicated problem.
[00:57] <TheChistoso> i know bind, dnsmasq, dhcp, cobbler, pxe, tftp, etc. and i found things confusing
[00:57] <Marlinc> There is a bug report with the same error but it is pretty old and I don't know if its still relevant
[00:57] <bigjools> Marlinc: are there log entries talking about leases?
[00:57] <TheChistoso> perhaps those folks have consultants who know the product and have been using it for a while? (c:
[00:57] <Marlinc> Well in my syslog
[00:58] <bigjools> Marlinc: specifically in the celery.log
[00:58] <Marlinc> [2013-05-02 02:57:33,775: INFO/Beat] Scheduler: Sending due task provisioningserver.tasks.upload_dhcp_leases
[00:58] <bigjools> TheChistoso: like I said, it's best effort, like all OSS projects.
[00:58] <bigjools> Marlinc: ok cool, one sec
[00:58] <Marlinc> [2013-05-02 02:57:33,780: INFO/MainProcess] Got task from broker: provisioningserver.tasks.upload_dhcp_leases[****]
[00:58] <Marlinc> These things?
[00:58] <Marlinc> Okay nice
[00:58] <TheChistoso> is maas not backed by canonical?
[00:58] <bigjools> it is
[01:00] <TheChistoso> so you have real dollars being thrown at it w/ staff dedicating at least some partial amount of their time to it. that's a great thing! now as an open source user of your product, i'm just trying to warn you that your documentation is lacking and you could be turning away users without knowing it.
[01:00] <bigjools> Marlinc: can you see your node's MAC/IP in the leases file?
[01:01] <Marlinc> It is
[01:01] <bigjools> TheChistoso: I'm sorry it wasn't up to scratch for you - people will try to make it better
[01:01] <TheChistoso> okay, so what are my options at this point? can i "un-start" (or "un-use") it so i can use it from juju?
[01:01] <bigjools> Marlinc: can you look at the celery-region log for errors
[01:01] <bigjools> TheChistoso: look at maas-cli
[01:02] <bigjools> it has a release command
[01:03] <Marlinc> There are bigjools http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/5624558/
[01:03] <bigjools> Marlinc: did you install maas-dns?
[01:03] <bigjools> and maas-dhcp
[01:03] <Marlinc> Yes I did it is running because my laptop is using it right now
[01:03] <Marlinc> And it is using the dhcp too
[01:03] <bigjools> weird
[01:04] <Marlinc> I did need to edit the /etc/network/interfaces file in order to make the DHCP work
[01:04] <bigjools> is maas in /etc/sudoers?
[01:04] <bigjools> is "rndc" available?
[01:04] <Marlinc> rndc is available
[01:04] <Marlinc> But maas is not in the sudoers file
[01:04] <bigjools> mmmm
[01:05] <bigjools> which version of maas are you using?
[01:05] <Marlinc> I've used the Ubuntu 13.04 install
[01:05] <bigjools> ok
[01:06] <bigjools> maas should be in sudoers anyway, which expains the other "omshell" failure
[01:06] <bigjools> not sure why it's not there
[01:06] <Marlinc> Well I don't know either
[01:06] <Marlinc> Just add it or?
[01:07] <bigjools> packaging should have added it
[01:07] <bigjools> one sec
[01:08] <Marlinc> k
[01:10] <TheChistoso> okay awesome -- pie chart is now green showing "1 node queued" and the node list shows its status as "ready"
[01:10] <TheChistoso> so at this point i can "juju bootstrap"?
[01:10] <Marlinc> Yes
[01:10] <TheChistoso> awesome!
[01:10] <Marlinc> environments.yaml is setup?
[01:11] <Marlinc> Or you could get the same problem as me :P the hostname's of nodes are not resolving
[01:12] <TheChistoso> i ran juju bootstrap and the node is now rebooting
[01:14] <bigjools> Marlinc: do you have a /etc/sudoers.d/99-maas-sudoers ?
[01:14] <TheChistoso> Marlinc: can you provide more information wrt your environment? network (including network mask), are these machines on the same L2 network, etc.
[01:15] <bigjools> his dns is not resolving because the node is not in the zone file
[01:15] <Marlinc> Ah that is available
[01:15] <bigjools> there are a few causes for that
[01:15] <Marlinc> I don't think it is my network setup
[01:16] <bigjools> Marlinc: have you got zone files in /etc/bind/maas/
[01:16] <TheChistoso> well bigjools has been working on the issue longer than i've paid attention so probably best for me to follow his line of thinking
[01:16] <Marlinc> named.conf.maas  named.conf.rndc.maas  rndc.conf.maas  zone.1.168.192.in-addr.arpa  zone.2.168.192.in-addr.arpa  zone.master
[01:17] <bigjools> is your node in zone.master?
[01:17] <bigjools> there should be a CNAME if so
[01:17] <Marlinc> Nope
[01:17] <TheChistoso> hmmm -- well it prompted for the partitioning scheme again
[01:17] <bigjools> TheChistoso: I'd ask in #ubuntu-server about that, I've never had that
[01:20] <Marlinc> It is not bigjools :p
[01:20] <bigjools> Marlinc: one secx
[01:20] <Marlinc> okay :)
[01:21] <bigjools> Marlinc: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/5624592/
[01:21] <bigjools> try that and see what output you get
[01:21] <Marlinc> Okay
[01:22] <Marlinc> The output is good
[01:22] <Marlinc> ip->mac mappings
[01:22] <bigjools> you see your node?
[01:22] <Marlinc> Yep
[01:22] <bigjools> ok so something went wrong where it writes out the zone file
[01:23] <bigjools> let's try: sudo service apache2 restart
[01:24] <Marlinc> Mmm okay
[01:24] <Marlinc> Restarted
[01:24] <bigjools> it will reload the wsgi for maas which causes a job to rewrite the zone file
[01:24] <bigjools> so check the zone file(s) again
[01:25] <bigjools> and check celery-region.log to see if anything went wrong since you restarted
[01:26] <Marlinc> No new output in that log
[01:26] <Marlinc> And it is still in none of the bind maas files
[01:27] <bigjools> hmmm
[01:27] <bigjools> can you try renaming the node
[01:27] <bigjools> ands watch the log
[01:28] <Marlinc> Sure
[01:29] <Marlinc> It did a 'upload_dhcp_release'
[01:29] <Marlinc> It did a 'upload_dhcp_leases'
[01:29] <Marlinc> *
[01:29] <bigjools> yeah that runs periodically
[01:29] <Marlinc> Other then that nothing
[01:32] <bigjools> arey you looking in celery-region ?
[01:32] <Marlinc> Well tailed both of them
[01:32] <Marlinc> [2013-05-02 02:05:34,807: INFO/MainProcess] Task provisioningserver.tasks.rndc_command[6499426a-eb2c-4b30-bfbc-0314632cef2f] retry: None
[01:32] <Marlinc> None
[01:32] <Marlinc> Is the last
[01:37] <bigjools> I'm not sure what's going on, there are no errors but the file is not getting written
[01:38] <Marlinc> I'll reboot the thing
[01:38] <Marlinc> Maybe something is not working
[01:42] <Marlinc> Now
[01:42] <Marlinc> [2013-05-02 03:40:27,551: INFO/MainProcess] Task provisioningserver.tasks.rndc_command[6499426a-eb2c-4b30-bfbc-0314632cef2f] retry: None
[01:42] <Marlinc> None
[01:42] <Marlinc> Runs without issues
[01:43] <Marlinc> But there's still no entry
[01:49] <Marlinc> bigjools, ^
[01:49] <bigjools> yeah#
[01:49] <bigjools> trying to think
[01:49] <bigjools> someone else will be around soon that may have more ideas
[01:49] <Marlinc> Okay
[01:49] <Marlinc> What is soon? Because it is well time to sleep
[01:50] <Marlinc> For some hours already though
[01:50] <Marlinc> Usage: time [-apvV] [-f format] [-o file] [--append] [--verbose]
[01:50] <Marlinc>        [--portability] [--format=format] [--output=file] [--version]
[01:50] <Marlinc>        [--quiet] [--help] command [arg...]
[01:50] <Marlinc> do mei  2 03:50:07 CEST 2013
[01:50] <bigjools> !
[01:51] <bigjools> there's a guy near your TZ and one about to start, so just ping later
[01:51] <Marlinc> Okay
[01:51] <Marlinc> I'll see tomorrow
[01:51] <Marlinc> Good night
[01:52] <bigjools> good night
[03:04] <roaksoax> bigjools: howdy! just wanted to let you know that it seems there's not gonna be an sru anytime soon
[03:04] <bigjools> yay
[03:05] <roaksoax> bigjools: MIR'ing the dependencies is not as easy as it seems, and will probably require TB intervention, meaning, request the TB to provide a exception for those dependencies
[03:05] <bigjools> joy
[03:05] <roaksoax> yep
[04:34] <Dr{Who}> Hmm. i changed the IP of my 13.04 maas box and it needs some reconfigureing but I cant figure out what to run or edit. dpkg-reconfigure maas does not seem do do anything on this release.
[04:51] <bigjools> Dr{Who}: it's all done in the UI
[04:51] <bigjools> edit the cluster
[05:48] <TheChistoso> okay, so i added a new machine to maas. i didn't hit "start node" yet. the machine is currently powered off. i should be able to just use it automatically from juju, correct?
[05:48] <TheChistoso> e.g. i want to just do "juju deploy mysql"
[05:48] <TheChistoso> it picks the right machine, but i don't see it turning on and installing the OS as expected
[06:17] <TheChistoso> any maas+juju users present?
[06:44] <shang> bigjools: ping
[06:44] <shang> bigjools: last time I check,the new maas still haven't been backported to 12.04 yet. Has this changed since?
[06:44] <shang> few weeks ago
[07:04] <TheChistoso> so, uh, anybody? :D
[08:06] <Marlinc> Hello
[11:51] <Marlinc> My Juju only finds one node. When I try to add a unit it says "ProviderError: No matching node is available." there is another node ready
[11:51] <Marlinc> What could I do about this?
[11:56] <rbasak> bug 1064291 perhaps?
[11:57] <rbasak> But that's only one possibility
[11:57] <rbasak> I don't remember how to tell juju to use no constraints at all, but if you find out please add it to the bug.
[11:57] <rbasak> It'd be nice to document the workaround.
[11:58] <Marlinc> Ah so.. I've specified i386 and now it works
[11:59] <Marlinc> But let me guess
[11:59] <Marlinc> Now only 32 bit nodes will work
[11:59] <melmoth> i m not sure how to remove a global constraint for arch, but for the node name, i use juju "set-constraints maas-name="
[11:59] <rbasak> You can change the default constraints
[11:59] <melmoth> then i double check it s set to NULL again with juju get-constraint
[12:01] <rbasak> Marlinc: please mark bug 1064291 as "affects me too"
[12:01] <Marlinc> Done
[12:01] <rbasak> Thanks!
[12:01] <Marlinc> So it looks like I'm not the only one
[12:03] <Marlinc> Is it possible to allow multiple architectures using a constraint?
[12:04] <rbasak> I'm not sure. #juju might have more people who can help.
[12:43] <Marlinc> MAAS should boot a machine when Juju requests it right?
[12:45] <rbasak> Correct. Not only boot, but install.
[12:45] <rbasak> (thus it takes a while)
[12:47] <Marlinc> Well the last works
[12:47] <Marlinc> But it is no longer starting the machine
[12:49] <Marlinc> Ah now it works
[12:55] <Marlinc> There's a little issue I think
[12:56] <Marlinc> One my machine's has needs a binary blob for the NIC. It can't boot connect without so it cannot install fully automatically
[13:00] <rbasak> I don't think maas will be able to support that case any time soon. You should be able to hack it though, by customizing the preseed.
[13:00] <rbasak> Although it wohn't be able to fetch the preseed. Hmm.
[13:01] <rbasak> It can still be done. Perhaps by hacking the installer initrd. Perhaps more trouble than it's worth. I can't think of a non-trivial way to do it off the top of my head.
[13:01] <Marlinc> Mmm I kept the USB in the machine
[13:01] <Marlinc> Now it works
[13:01] <Marlinc> I guess I need to keep in the machine lol
[13:47] <Teduardo> Hey is anyone around here that knows MAAS/JUJU?
[13:48] <Teduardo> I'm trying to figure something out; and that is.. if MAAS doesn't know the hardware specifications of the boxes it's managing how can I know whether certain juju charms are approriate to install?
[13:48] <Teduardo> err, sorry how can IT know
[13:49] <mgz> it does know, see http://maas.ubuntu.com/docs/
[13:50] <mgz> see particularly the tags section
[13:51] <Teduardo> ah, when I login to maas it tells me all of my 4 core VMware machines have 32 cores
[13:52] <mgz> presumably the underlyinf hardware has 32 cores?
[13:52] <Teduardo> nope, it has 8 cores and 16 threads
[13:53] <mgz> anyway, you can look at the lshw output and #1 file a bug with it attached, #2 create your own tag for the bits you care about
[16:38] <Dr{Wh0}> Q. I am trying to setup a multi-homed server for my maas box so I can manage it from my trusted network. I setup maas from 13.04 and then changed the trusted interface ip and now some pages still have links to the original dhcp'd ip it got at boot. How can i get it to reload or reconfigure itself?
[16:42] <roaksoax> Dr{Wh0}: sudo dpkg-reconfigure maas-region-controller
[16:42] <roaksoax> Dr/win 14
[16:44] <Dr{Wh0}> so I did try that and it didnt seem to fix some links on the pages. going to try again.
[16:44] <Dr{Wh0}> nope. same thing the main page has a link on it with a warning "Some cluster controllers are missing boot images. Either the import task has not been initiated (for each cluster, the task must be initiated by hand the first time), or the import task failed. "
[16:44] <Dr{Wh0}> this link goes to the wrong ip.
[16:46] <Dr{Wh0}> not gone through all the code still learning it but it seems to be here in api.py "absolute_reverse("settings")"
[17:07] <roaksoax> Dr{Wh0}: ah so you need to sudo dpkg-reconfigure maas-cluster-controller on all the nodes that are the cluster controllers
[17:26] <TheChistoso> i'm using maas+juju. i added a new machine and it's shown as "ready" in the node list. when i try and deploy mysql, it never picks up the new machine
[17:26] <TheChistoso> i started the deploy last night and 10 hours later juju status is still showing it as "pending"
[17:51] <roaksoax> TheChistoso: will first you need to verify that the bootstrap node is up and running
[18:50] <Dr{Who}> roaksoax: sorry got disconnected. I dont have any other systems just this one MAAS system to start with.
[20:57] <TheChistoso|2> roaksoax: i just got back to this. my bootstrap node is up and running fine.
[22:01] <TheChistoso|2> i resolved my issue -- issue was that my juju bootstrap node was running precise w/ a known bug where you need to include the port # in the maas-server entry in your environments.yaml for juju
[22:33] <Dr{Who}> Well I have even grep'ed the entire hard drive for that ip address and other than a few pg files I dont see it anyplace yet the MAAS ui still knows about it.
[22:40] <Marlinc> How can I change the port of the MAAS interface?
[22:40] <Marlinc> To 8080 for example
[22:41] <mwhudson> editing /etc/apache2/conf.d/mass.conf i assume?
[22:41] <mwhudson> note: i don't know if there is a better wya
[22:44] <Marlinc> Mm okay
[23:14] <mwhudson> roaksoax: ping
[23:55] <Dr{Who}> Q. the /settings/ page has "Some cluster controllers are missing boot images. Either the import task has not been initiated (for each cluster, the task must be initiated by hand the first time), or the import task failed." but the url link on this line is to the wrong IP. it was the IP the box was initially setup on dhcp. Its now static. I have yet to find how to get the system to change this url. Ideas? I already tried dpkg-reconfigure maas-cluster-
[23:55] <Dr{Who}> controller . Is this a bug?
[23:55] <bigjools> edit the cluster
[23:57] <Dr{Who}> ok how do I do that. I only have 1 box so far this one MAAS box a 13.04 installed with "MAAS" as the install option.
[23:59] <Dr{Who}> ok found the cluster edit page in the ui looking now. done see any ip's yet.


[14:38] <dude_> hello
[14:44] <sladen> helo
[15:20] <dude_> why is "contribuiting in the developpement of ubuntu" equivalent to "maintaining packages". What exactly is Ubuntu ? a collection of packages ?
[15:24] <ogra_> it is way more, but development typicall yhappens in source packages, so yeah, thats equivalent in most cases


[12:27] <tgm4883_laptop> blind
[09:00] <aesthetic> hi there
[09:00] <aesthetic> just trying to get mythbuntu but the mirrors are amazingly slow for me
[09:00] <aesthetic> does anyone have a link to any other ones?
[09:00] <aesthetic> im in .au
[10:10] <Daviey> aesthetic: you've tried the torrent, http://mirror.polorix.net/Mythbuntu/mythbuntu-7.10~070702-i386.iso & http://www.mythbuntu.org/files/iso/mythbuntu-7.10~070702-i386.iso
[10:15] <aesthetic> i tried all three :/
[10:15] <aesthetic> im having a little bit of success off the third mirror
[10:15] <aesthetic> it timed out at 50% earlier
[10:15] <aesthetic> but ill see how it goes
[10:15] <aesthetic> i was hoping you had a mirror not listed on mythbuntu.org ;)
[12:50] <ubotu> New bug: #119075 in mysql-dfsg-5.0 (main) "Root password policy for mysql" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/119075
[04:22] <laga> http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/dev/279368#279368
[04:28] <DaveMorris> the themes can still be done via a deb though
[04:29] <DaveMorris> as some people might not have their box connected to the net
[04:29] <laga> yup
[06:38] <superm1> morning guys
[06:45] <Kenzu> hmm... morning... naa
[06:45] <Kenzu> ;-)
[06:45] <Kenzu> not in danmark
[06:45] <Kenzu> denmark
[06:46] <superm1> hehe
[06:46] <superm1> well its actually almost noon now here too, but i've been driving all morning and just got into work
[06:51] <Kenzu> her it 6.51 in the afternoon
[06:57] <rogue780> hey superm1, top o' da noon too ya
[07:08] <laga> morning superm1. here's some details on theme handling in 0.21: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/dev/279368#279368
[07:09] <superm1> laga, interesting
[07:09] <superm1> so we should blow away the mythtv-themes package?
[07:10] <laga> 16:24 < DaveMorris> the themes can still be done via a deb though
[07:10] <laga> 16:24 < DaveMorris> as some people might not have their box connected to the net
[07:10] <laga> i wonder if such a theme-downloader would be able to perform system-wide installs
[07:12] <superm1> could you poke around?
[07:12] <superm1> and find out
[07:13] <laga> sure
[09:06] <superm1> DaveMorris, Daviey you here?
[09:11] <DaveMorris> yep
[09:13] <DaveMorris> superm1:
[09:13] <DaveMorris> you rang
[09:14] <superm1> hey DaveMorris .  wanted to ping you regarding docs stuff
[09:14] <superm1> the installer is pretty much feature complete once i do the next build
[09:14] <DaveMorris> I'm doing more of them weds evening, and I'll commit the changes I've made then
[09:14] <DaveMorris> you finished adding new features yet?
[09:14] <superm1> yea
[09:15] <superm1> lirc should be the last of it
[09:15] <superm1> if anything, the theme stuff might be taking out depending on what laga finds out
[09:15] <superm1> but nothing more is planned to be added to it directly
[09:15] <DaveMorris> thats for .21 though
[09:15] <DaveMorris> ;)
[09:16] <superm1> my work is more focused to the autostart package, i coded together a lot of python last week for it, and wrote an initial gui this weekend
[09:16] <DaveMorris> I'll also write an article for fullcirclemagazine for the release of mythbuntu in october
[09:16] <laga> 19:09 < laga> hey gbee, i just saw your posting regarding a theme downloader for 0.21. is anyone already working on this? i'm wondering how if it'd handle system-wide installs of themes
[09:16] <superm1> very good
[09:17] <laga> 19:11 < gbee> laga: no-one is working on it yet, I added the themeinfo.xml files in support of it, but currently it's just a rough plan for the future
[09:17] <laga> 19:13 < gbee> I'm not sure how system wide installs would work either, but that probably won't be an issue for most people who only use mythtv under a single user
[09:17] <superm1> laga, if you can add some comments to gbee, hopefully it will work via both
[09:17] <superm1> so that theme packages can be done for the interested
[09:18] <DaveMorris> laga also mention people who have an 'offline' as in the internet sense system
[09:18] <superm1> indeed
[09:22] <superm1> laga, what ended up being the situation with the trunk packages?
[09:22] <superm1> get everything merged together?
[10:07] <Kenz1> how do I set up wireless on mythbuntu? no network-manager
[10:43] <superm1> Kenz1, Haven't considered that yet
[10:43] <superm1> there is a command line way to do things
[10:44] <superm1> i guess it depends on how common the case of having a wireless myth box comes up?
[10:47] <superm1> i would expect not often - but don't really know
[10:50] <Kenz1> As the wireless network gets better I think i'am not the only one
[10:50] <Kenz1> Pre-n
[10:51] <Kenz1> I know how to use iwconfig but not how to save my settings
[10:51] <Kenz1> something with /etc/network/interfaces
[10:51] <superm1> yes it's /etc/network/interfaces
[10:51] <superm1> do a 'man interfaces'
[10:52] <superm1> for more info
[10:56] <superm1> i guess my worry with network manager was added bloat, but perhaps it is worthwhile.
[10:57] <superm1> it appears to use no more than 500k ram for the daemons and 1.4mb ram for the user space applet
[11:16] <ubotu> New bug: #126423 in mythtv (multiverse) "Mythtv "Error encountered displaying video" on DVB-T program change" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/126423


[13:52] <melat0nin> Hi all
[14:05] <melat0nin> How does one get into proofing ubuntu docs/gnome apps
[14:06] <melat0nin> I've noticed some mistakes in some apps that I would love to help fix
[14:10] <mdke> melat0nin: the first step is to visit https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam - after that, if anything isn't clear, then you should ask on our mailing list
[14:11] <melat0nin> Right will do, thanks
[14:13] <melat0nin> Can I ask why all the wiki pages have NamesLikesThis rather than Names Like This?  I tried to find and answer but couldn't
[14:13] <melat0nin> It's a bit off-putting
[14:18] <melat0nin> Found the answer, although I still think it's not ideal :(


[06:56] <sil2100> Morning!
[06:58] <didrocks> hey sil2100! how are you?
[07:06] <sil2100> didrocks: hey! Pretty good now actually, reading up my e-mails right now - how about you?
[07:06] <didrocks> sil2100: I'm fine thanks, hoping that we can finish the transition and having cu2d ready before the meeting
[07:07] <didrocks> sil2100: you forgot some projects I guess like unity, compiz, nux, can you sync with Mirv or do you need my help to redeploy everything?
[07:07] <sil2100> didrocks: is T open already?
[07:07] <didrocks> sil2100: yeah ;)
[07:07] <sil2100> Ah, I see it!
[07:07] <didrocks> and the ppa can build for it :)
[07:07] <sil2100> Trusty Tahr, need to google that
[07:07] <didrocks> (tested yesterday with a dummy bamf upload
[07:07] <didrocks> heh
[07:08] <didrocks> sil2100: can you keep me posted on where you stand with Mirv? (and if you need help)
[07:08] <didrocks> I would really having us being ready before the meeting
[07:08] <didrocks> all the rest is in place, we are the last ones ;)
[07:08] <sil2100> didrocks: sure! Let me get up-to-date
[07:09] <didrocks> great ;)
[07:10] <Mirv> didrocks: https://code.launchpad.net/~cupstream2distro-maintainers/cupstream2distro-config/saucy_transition_misc_unity/+merge/191989 is waiting
[07:10] <mlankhorst>  Morning!
[07:10] <Mirv> sil2100: ^
[07:11] <sil2100> Mirv: reviewing then, thanks
[07:13] <sil2100> Mirv: ok, do with unity and nux they're not explicitly bumping the upstream version, yes?
[07:13] <sil2100> *do=so
[07:15] <Mirv> sil2100: they had already a 'saucy' branch in addition to version number branch so I assumed they're fine with having a name based branch. it's clearer anyway than the need to map version number -> version.
[07:15] <didrocks> sil2100: we don't really care if they don't, right?
[07:16] <Mirv> since we now care about release branches and not the strict version number
[07:16] <sil2100> ACK
[07:16] <Mirv> I just needed to update them a bit to have them in sync with what was released (they were about one cu2d release behind)
[07:17] <sil2100> Mirv: approved, sweet
[07:17] <Mirv> sil2100: thanks, deploying
[07:17] <didrocks> oh, think about checking the application list as well
[07:17] <didrocks> for tests
[07:17] <didrocks> not sure the package list was updated
[07:17] <didrocks> or we can try a build + test run
[07:17] <didrocks> and see what otto will yell at
[07:18] <didrocks> Mirv: sil2100: otto ready btw
[07:18] <Mirv> yeah they will certainly need a bit of updating
[07:18] <sil2100> Mirv: which stacks are you working on now? Since from the list I don't think all stacks got switched
[07:18] <sil2100> didrocks: you mean, it's working now again? \o/
[07:18] <Mirv> sil2100: if you know some non-touch package is still missing from the list, feel free to point out. I only looked at misc + unity
[07:19] <didrocks> sil2100: we did upgrade to trusty (and it wasn't broken AFAIK?)
[07:19] <Mirv> since those were obviously missing from before
[07:20] <sil2100> Mirv: ok, browsing then
[07:26] <sil2100> Mirv: I'm transitioning OIF now if anything
[07:28] <Mirv> sil2100: yeah, that sounds useful
[07:43] <Mirv> sil2100: please also approve https://code.launchpad.net/~timo-jyrinki/cupstream2distro-config/fix_typo_and_sync_headunity_packages/+merge/192092 - a couple of typos plus updating unity stack package list to match saucy's
[07:43] <sil2100> Ouch
[07:49] <sil2100> Mirv: https://code.launchpad.net/~sil2100/cupstream2distro-config/transition_oif_platform_T/+merge/192094
[08:01] <sil2100> Mirv: do you know if the SDK stack needs transitioning?
[08:01] <sil2100> Mirv: if yes, could you take care of that?
[08:01] <sil2100> I'll take care of the rest
[08:03] <Mirv> sil2100: yeah, why not, handling that
[08:04] <sil2100> Mirv: thanks!
[08:04] <Laney> morning
[08:04] <sil2100> Laney: morning \o/
[08:11] <sil2100> Mirv: also, when you have the time: https://code.launchpad.net/~sil2100/cupstream2distro-config/transition_some_projects_T/+merge/192096
[08:12] <didrocks> hey Laney
[08:13] <Laney> hey didrocks sil2100
[08:14] <sil2100> didrocks: I assumed we don't need to split branches for mir - is that correct?
[08:14] <didrocks> sil2100: not needed, indeed ;)
[08:17] <sil2100> Mirv: transitioning the last one I guess: QA
[08:18] <Mirv> sil2100: and https://code.launchpad.net/~cupstream2distro-maintainers/cupstream2distro-config/sdk_trusty/+merge/192101
[08:18] <sil2100> Mirv: ah, I guess the 'saucy-armhf -> trusty-armhf' leftovers we'll have to do later as well
[08:19] <sil2100> Mirv: looking good, thanks!
[08:19] <Mirv> yeah can be separate commits to fix remaining issues
[08:22] <didrocks> sil2100: Mirv: maybe you will handle that in a later MP, but remember that the check job is the "trusty" one in extracheck
[08:22] <didrocks> if the wiki is missing that, please add it :)
[08:31] <Mirv> didrocks: ah, so like this? https://code.launchpad.net/~timo-jyrinki/cupstream2distro-config/head_extracheck_trusty/+merge/192105
[08:31] <Mirv> checking the wiki
[08:36] <sil2100> didrocks, Mirv: https://code.launchpad.net/~sil2100/cupstream2distro-config/transition_qa_to_T/+merge/192106 <- is this ok?
[08:36] <sil2100> Mirv: actually I think we need to modify also the 'series:' tag too?
[08:36] <sil2100> Mirv: I modified it in the QA merge
[08:37] <Mirv> updated the wiki
[08:39] <Mirv> sil2100: ok, I'm updating my branch a bit as well
[08:42] <Mirv> sil2100: please check https://code.launchpad.net/~timo-jyrinki/cupstream2distro-config/head_extracheck_trusty/+merge/192105 (I omitted qa from there)
[08:44] <sil2100> Mirv: approved! I wonder if we need to change anything else, but I guess we can fix that later
[08:44] <sil2100> ;)
[08:47] <Mirv> sil2100: deploying all but qa
[08:48] <Mirv> (head)
[08:48] <sil2100> Mirv: is everything merged in?
[08:49] <Mirv> sil2100: I've everything needed merged locally
[08:50] <Mirv> sil2100: so if you could deploy the saucy stuff you touched (and that was just merged) + head qa
[08:52] <sil2100> Mirv: https://code.launchpad.net/~cupstream2distro-maintainers/cupstream2distro-config/sdk_trusty/+merge/192101 didn\t merge
[08:53] <sil2100> Ah, but you see that
[08:53] <Mirv> sil2100: I know, it should soon. there was a whitespace change.
[08:53] <sil2100> Mirv: is there a reason why you didn't top-approve the QA branch?
[08:54] <didrocks> Mirv: yeah, good for me!
[08:56] <Mirv> didrocks: sil2100: https://code.launchpad.net/~timo-jyrinki/cupstream2distro-config/head_to_manual_mode/+merge/192113 already deploying
[08:56] <Mirv> just tell me if not wanted, but I thought it's best to have that if unsure :)
[08:57]  * sil2100 is redeploying saucy
[08:57] <didrocks> Mirv: Text conflict in stacks/head/indicators.cfg
[08:57] <sil2100> Mirv: can you top-approve that QA branch or can I do that?
[08:57] <didrocks> and so on?
[08:57] <Mirv> didrocks: yeah some other merges there, let me clean up
[08:58] <didrocks> Mirv: keep manualpublish: True please
[08:58] <Mirv> yep
[09:00] <Mirv> didrocks: ok, reload
[09:02] <Mirv> sil2100: ah sorry ETOOMANYBRANCHES, top-approved that one as welll
[09:02] <sil2100> ;D
[09:02] <Mirv> plus all head branches deployed again (and again), with manual publishing, extracheck, series..
[09:05] <Mirv> sil2100: except your qa
[09:09] <sil2100> Mirv: redeploying that
[09:09] <Mirv> sil2100: please approve that ^ manual_mode branch as well
[09:10] <sil2100> Mirv: done, thanks!
[10:20] <sil2100> Mirv: hmmm, we missed unity8 stack - I'll do it now
[10:20] <sil2100> (it doesn't matter for t anyway)
[10:25] <sil2100> Mirv: webapps also didn't seem to be done... I thought fginther was working on that though
[10:27] <sil2100> I'll take that up for today
[10:28] <sil2100> Mirv: in the meantime, https://code.launchpad.net/~sil2100/cupstream2distro-config/transition_unity8_T/+merge/192120
[10:49] <Mirv> sil2100: https://code.launchpad.net/~timo-jyrinki/cupstream2distro-config/more_trusty/+merge/192124
[10:50] <sil2100> Mirv: ah, this branch is trusty!
[11:08] <xnox> Laney: is ubuntu-keyboard / maliit suppose to work on desktop/amd64 at all?
[11:08] <Laney> Dunno
[11:08] <Laney> old maliit did but somebody redid it all so I don't know what's going on there
[11:12] <xnox> Laney: $ maliit-server
[11:12] <xnox> open /usr/lib/arm-linux-gnueabihf/libpinyin/data/pinyin_index.bin failed!
[11:12] <xnox> Segmentation fault (core dumped)
[11:12] <xnox> $ dpkg --print-architecture
[11:12] <xnox> amd64
[11:14] <Laney> Talk to sergiusens
[11:14] <Laney> he took it over, it didn't have that problem when I packaged it
[11:15] <xnox> Laney: libpinyin2-dev -> libpinyin4-dev transition is missing....
[11:18]  * Laney redirects xnox to #ubuntu-touch and sergiusens
[11:21] <xnox> pitti: \o/ about 9.3
[11:21] <xnox> trusty looks like it's going to be an exciting release.
[11:22] <pitti> xnox: heh, I'll sort out the necessary extension rebuilds; I forgot to add 14.04 to postgresql-common earlier
[11:26] <xnox> pitti: now, if only somebody merges asterisk 11 & then we can drop sqlite 2 from the archive and everything will be sweet =)
[11:26] <Laney> ajmitch loves doing that
[12:47] <seb128> good morning desktopers
[12:52] <czajkowski> seb128: aloha :)
[12:53] <seb128> czajkowski, hey, how are you today?
[12:53] <czajkowski> seb128: not bad thanks, trying to get a blog post out and having writers block so playing with my new phone instead :)
[12:53] <czajkowski> seb128: how are things in the land of maple syrup
[12:53] <seb128> czajkowski, good, it stopped raining, we have blue sky today!
[12:54] <czajkowski> at least you can see the sky!
[12:55] <seb128> yeah
[12:55] <seb128> bregma, are you working on bug #1199877?
[12:55] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1199877 in Unity 7.1 "unity-panel-service memory leak and 100% CPU usage" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1199877
[12:55] <bregma> seb128, it's top priority
[12:55] <seb128> larsu, attente: ^ not sure if that's something you can help on, recent comment seems to suggest that using gimp in saucy is enough to make the unity panel service unhappy
[12:55] <bregma> if only it was easy to spot the cause
[12:56] <seb128> bregma, yeah, I was wondering if you needed help from the indicator side ... did you determine if the issue was in unity or indicators?
[12:56] <seb128> bregma, btw did you see my pings yesterday?
[12:56] <seb128> bregma, oh, and good morning ;-)
[13:00] <bregma> seb128, the issue is in the indicator stack somewhere (all Unity does is load the indicators and run them)... it appears every time a context is switched the app menus are recreated and the previous ones leaked
[13:02] <larsu> bregma: your comment #25 suggests you already found a signal leak in indicator-appmenu?
[13:03] <bregma> larsu, I've found a few small leaks, but I'm after the bug fish
[13:03] <bregma> *big* fish
[13:04] <larsu> bregma: the attached sysprof looks like a bug in gtk
[13:05] <larsu> I wonder if that's still there...
[13:07] <attente> i can't seem to replicate it with clementine
[13:09] <mdeslaur> bregma: I use workspace heavily, could that be related?
[13:09] <Mirv> sil2100: https://code.launchpad.net/~timo-jyrinki/cupstream2distro-config/switch_from_next_to_daily/+merge/192139
[13:09] <mdeslaur> workspaces
[13:09] <bregma> mdeslaur, it's not related to workspaces, but it's related to switching between apps
[13:10] <bregma> I use gedit to reproduce it, gimp makes it more obvious because of more menus
[13:10] <mdeslaur> ah, cool, you can reproduce it
[13:11] <seb128> just click on some menu items in the gimp is enough to get lag and cpu increase here
[13:13] <seb128> bregma, what do you do with gedit to trigger it?
[13:15] <bregma> all I have to do is switch to another application then back again -- I have instrumented debug version of the libraries, so I can see the menus leaking, I don't need to watch top to know there's a problem
[13:16] <larsu> bregma: which menus are leaking? The ones that indicator-appmenu creates?
[13:16] <bregma> larsu, yep
[13:17] <bregma> but the water gets murkier the deeper I go
[13:34] <mdeslaur> seb128: anything objection to me getting libav demoted from main?
[13:34] <seb128> mdeslaur, not from me
[13:40] <ChrisTownsend> seb128: Good morning
[13:40] <seb128> ChrisTownsend, hey
[13:40] <ChrisTownsend> seb128: Have you heard anything else about these mouse wheel scrolling issues from upstream Gtk?  We are getting quite a few bugs about them now.
[13:41] <seb128> ChrisTownsend, no, I didn't, out of the fact that your patch was basically recreating the bug that their commit is fixing
[13:41] <ChrisTownsend> seb128: Well, their commit is a pretty bad regression.
[13:42] <seb128> ChrisTownsend, I didn't see any issue with it here so I wouldn't claim that
[13:42] <ChrisTownsend> seb128: I have a PPA that people are using and it is fixing their issues and haven't seen any negative side effects.
[13:42] <ChrisTownsend> seb128: I can easily recreate the issues these people are seeing.
[13:43] <seb128> ChrisTownsend, could you reproduce the bug that the upstream commit is supposed to fix?
[13:43] <seb128> ChrisTownsend, well, they are using non default compiz options...
[13:43] <ChrisTownsend> seb128: Hmm, I have not tried to reproduce the original issue.
[13:44] <seb128> ChrisTownsend, I don't like fixing bugs by reverting fixes :/
[13:44] <seb128> ideally we would have a solution that fixes both issues
[13:45] <ChrisTownsend> seb128: I agree.  That's what I was trying to do, but I simply am not that well versed in Gtk to fully understand how to fix this correctly.
[13:45] <ChrisTownsend> seb128: But it sure is making Compiz look bad:\
[13:46] <ChrisTownsend> seb128: However, I have seen anecdotal evidence that some of these issues are still seen even when not using Compiz.
[13:46] <seb128> ChrisTownsend, not in its default configuration, those users should know better than enabling those crazy options :/
[13:46] <ChrisTownsend> seb128: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+3.0/+bug/1240957/comments/6
[13:46] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1240957 in GTK+ "Scrolling behaviour and window focus has changed and is inconsistent" [Medium,Confirmed]
[13:47] <ChrisTownsend> seb128: That user claims it happens when using IceWm.
[13:48] <seb128> ChrisTownsend, not sure what we are arguing about there, it's a bug and it would be good to be fixed
[13:48] <seb128> ChrisTownsend, is your argument that we should regress on the upstream fix because we can't fix the second bug and the first one at the same time?
[13:49] <ChrisTownsend> seb128: Yeah, I think more people are being affected by the second bug than the first one.
[13:50] <ChrisTownsend> seb128: Who has the knowledge and motivation to fix both bugs at the same time?
[13:51] <qengho> Hi. A chromium-browser claims that there's a bug I don't understand. What would make chromium-browser contents seem to draw over another app?  I am pretty sure it's not that a top app is not repainting itself. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/chromium-browser/+bug/1173234
[13:51] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1173234 in chromium-browser (Ubuntu) "Chromium's content doesn't respect z order, obscuring everything else" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[13:53] <seb128> ChrisTownsend, well, garnacho would fix it if he was able to reproduce I think
[13:53] <seb128> qengho, that could be a window manager or graphical stack issue I guess
[13:54] <Laney> hey seb128
[13:54] <seb128> ChrisTownsend, I would need to read again what was the original issue they tried to fixed that introduced the other bug
[13:54] <Laney> you changed colour
[13:54] <seb128> Laney, hey
[13:54] <Laney> new client?
[13:54] <seb128> colour?
[13:54] <Laney> yeah you used to be red and now you are pink
[13:54] <seb128> in your irssi?
[13:54] <Laney> ya
[13:54] <seb128> is the color coming from the server?
[13:54] <Laney> nope
[13:54] <seb128> I'm still using the same machine/xchat-gnome
[13:54] <seb128> but I'm in Canada
[13:55] <ChrisTownsend> seb128: Ok, I didn't fully understand the original issue.  Thanks!
[14:00] <kenvandine> seb128, 2 weeks in canada, isn't that long enough to be considered a canadian?
[14:02] <seb128> kenvandine, could be, but they don't even speak french in that part of Canada, who would like to stay here?
[14:02] <kenvandine> haha
[14:19] <kenvandine> seb128, what's secret sauce to construct a url to specific crash reports on e.u.c?
[14:20] <seb128> kenvandine, construct from where?
[14:20] <kenvandine> i thought there was parameters you could pass to find reports from your machine
[14:20] <kenvandine> etc
[14:20] <kenvandine> some uuid from your computer or something
[14:20] <kenvandine> and other info
[14:20] <seb128> kenvandine, oh, that
[14:20] <seb128> kenvandine, webbrowser 'http://errors.ubuntu.com/user/'$(printf $(sudo cat /sys/class/dmi/id/product_uuid) | sha512sum)
[14:21] <kenvandine> awesome
[14:21] <kenvandine> thx
[14:21] <seb128> yw
[14:26] <seb128> ChrisTownsend, the original gtk issue was that e.g gedit would scroll when you focus it by the distance you scrolled in other apps when it was not focussed, that's a pretty annoying bug as well
[14:26] <seb128> ChrisTownsend, e.g https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=690275
[14:26] <ubot2> Gnome bug 690275 in general "scrolling on other windows is applied when coming back (gedit and evince at least)" [Major,Resolved: fixed]
[14:26] <seb128> bregma, did you see my ping about https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/1241593 yesterday?
[14:26] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1241593 in unity (Ubuntu) "/usr/bin/compiz:11:unity::SearchBarSpinner::Draw:nux::View::ProcessDraw:nux::Layout::ProcessDraw:nux::Layout::ProcessDraw:unity::SearchBar::DrawContent" [Undecided,New]
[14:31] <bregma> seb128, I created that bug from e.u.c, but we've never seen it happen and none of the instances have any useful information
[14:31] <kenvandine> seb128, is it odd that the error reports listed for me link to blank pages?
[14:31] <seb128> bregma, ok
[14:31] <mdeslaur> seb128: can I get a confirmation from the desktop team on bug 1243235 please?
[14:31] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1243235 in libav (Ubuntu) "Please demote libav to universe" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1243235
[14:31] <kenvandine> or could they be new reports that need some processing or something?
[14:32] <seb128> kenvandine, check with ev, maybe that an outdated way or something
[14:32] <kenvandine> it did list 2 reports for me, which also seems odd... i'd think there would be tons
[14:32] <kenvandine> ok
[14:33] <seb128> mdeslaur, done
[14:33] <mdeslaur> seb128: ty
[14:33] <seb128> kenvandine, check, I think there is a link in the g-c-c privacy panel as well
[14:33] <kenvandine> ah, there is
[14:33] <kenvandine> takes me to the same page
[14:34] <ChrisTownsend> seb128: Yeah, I was re-reading the original bug as well and I agree, that is very annoying.  I've asked in the new wheel scroll bugs if anyone has non-default wheel bindings.  Maybe someone has this issue besides the Compiz workspace switching bindings.  I'd really like to find a better repro case for garnacho.
[14:36] <seb128> ChrisTownsend, seems like some people have the issue under xfce or KDE, maybe try with those
[14:43] <seb128> pitti, hey
[14:43] <seb128> pitti, would you consider https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apport/+bug/1055464 being the same issue than https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/cc5ba09ec065c27e619e5731ec052741e738b3f2 ?
[14:43] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1055464 in rhythmbox (Ubuntu) "apport-gtk crashed with ValueError in _apt_pkg(): package rhythmbox-ubuntuone-music-store does not exist" [Medium,Triaged]
[14:43] <pitti> salut seb128
[14:44] <seb128> pitti, that report is ranking 19 on the saucy bugs list
[14:45] <pitti> seb128: traceback on errors doesn't make it fully clear that it's from a hook, but it's plausible
[14:45] <seb128> pitti, well, in any case, it seems like apport should trigger an error dialog because a package doesn't exist, it should just display an UI to tell that to the user and exit no?
[14:46] <pitti> seb128: hm, tricky; report.add_package_info() is relatively low-level API, I wouldn't really like to make that ignore errors
[14:46] <seb128> pitti, or do we want to learn about those through bts?
[14:46] <seb128> bts=backtraces
[14:46] <pitti> seb128: but it's a bit weird, if the hook itself crashes, apport should just ignore that
[14:46] <pitti> seb128: it's useless for the user if the hook specifies an invalid package
[14:47] <pitti> seb128: I mean "for the user to know", as he can't do anything about it
[14:47] <seb128> pitti, clicking through some of the reports, that seems to happen on random packages, some of those are outdated kernel versions
[14:48] <pitti> I have some doublts that this is from bdmurray's rhythmbox package hook
[14:48] <seb128> the most common one seems skype
[14:49] <pitti> we don't ship any hook referring to skype
[14:49] <pitti> seb128: so it could rather be that this somehow comes from a package which got removed after a dist-upgrade, but the .crash was still from before the upgrade?
[14:50] <seb128> pitti, right
[14:50] <pitti> but where does the rhythmbox-store thing come from then
[14:50] <pitti> that was dropped in lucid already
[14:51] <seb128> pitti, the rb case is a buggy hook, I'm fixing it
[14:51] <seb128> pitti, see /usr/share/apport/package-hooks/source_rhythmbox.py
[14:51] <pitti> right
[14:51] <seb128>     stacktrace = report.get("Stacktrace", None)
[14:51] <seb128>     if stacktrace:
[14:51] <seb128>         if "ubuntuone" in stacktrace or "webkit" in stacktrace:
[14:51] <seb128>             report.add_package_info("rhythmbox-ubuntuone-music-store")
[14:51] <pitti> that part is clear
[14:51] <pitti> seb128: but if a hook crashes, apport doesn't crash
[14:51] <pitti> it just prints the stack trace to stderr and goes on
[14:51] <pitti> (precisely for reasons like that)
[14:52] <pitti> elif not apport.packaging.is_distro_package(report['Package'].split()[0]):
[14:52] <pitti> oh, that could be it
[14:57] <pitti> seb128: ok, I think I know what's going on, thanks for pointing out
[14:57] <seb128> pitti, great, thanks for looking to it (I'm trying to reproduce)
[14:58] <seb128> brb
[15:19] <seb128> pitti, I can't reproduce that bug, even by adding/removing packages or sources and doing some kill 11 in between
[15:23] <ChrisTownsend> seb128: About the wheel scrolling, Xfce/Xfwm is affected since it binds workspace switching to the mouse wheel by default.
[15:30] <seb128> ChrisTownsend, great
[15:30] <seb128> oh, it's meeting time:
[15:30] <seb128> !
[15:30] <mlankhorst> nah
[15:30] <seb128> qengho, Sweetshark, mlankhorst, Laney, tkamppeter, desrt, attente, larsu: hey
[15:30] <desrt> MEETING
[15:31] <larsu> \o/
[15:31] <mlankhorst> ohai
[15:32] <seb128> congrats on the saucy release, good job everyone ;-)
[15:33] <seb128> let's get start with the meeting, I expect it's going to be a short one, between release and sprint
[15:33] <seb128> qengho, hey
[15:33] <Sweetshark> o/
[15:33] <qengho> Hi hi.
[15:33] <qengho> - Close to releasing chromium-browser. Handing to #webapps for testing, as soon as PPA builder finishes.
[15:33] <qengho> - Bug-report triaging.
[15:33] <qengho> ...and whatever comes up from that.
[15:35] <seb128> qengho, thanks
[15:35] <seb128> Sweetshark, hey
[15:35] <Sweetshark> - build LibreOffice 4.0.6 for raring PPA (last minor, should likely be SRUed) - added patch which missed upstream tagging - smoketesting right now, should move over to the ppa ~today, SRU in a 1-2 weeks - rc2 = final
[15:35] <Sweetshark> - cleaned up pbuilders, setup stuff for trusty
[15:35] <Sweetshark> - investigating fdo#70741, which: - isnt happening with an upstream build - reportedly wasnt there with LibreOffice 3.6/quantal packages - thus a regression in both directions
[15:35] <Sweetshark> - still cleaning up all the leftover bits (TODO down into the 40ies, yay!1!)
[15:35] <Sweetshark> EOF
[15:36] <seb128> Sweetshark, thanks
[15:36] <seb128> mlankhorst, hey
[15:36] <mlankhorst> testing nested mir -> works, confirmed for someone else to work too. \o/ mesa 9.1.7 upload to raring + verification, fixing i915 s->q kernel backport. wine1.7 fixes for saucy and trusty, fixing arsenal scripts, filing a lts-s bug, and requesting a MRE for other lts-s components \0
[15:37] <seb128> mlankhorst, thanks
[15:37] <seb128> Laney, hey
[15:37] <Laney> well hello
[15:37] <Laney> • system-settings MPs
[15:37] <Laney> ∘ urihandler to switch panels in running instance
[15:37] <Laney> ∘ Make AS (greeter) background setting work again (TODO: re-enable UI)
[15:37] <Laney> ∘ Use more standard controls/appearance in the wifi panel
[15:37] <Laney> ∘ TODO: check language panel locale setting for LC_*
[15:37] <Laney> • Various SRUs including precise gnome-control-center/glib (verification) and saucy glib/glib-networking/gnome-control-center
[15:37] <Laney> • Fix some services for trusty opening such as codesearch, UDD and the transition tracker
[15:37] <Laney> • Push back a little bit on upower dropping some signals/API. Not sure we'll win on this one (don't look so shocked) so may have to port if we want 1.0.
[15:37] <Laney> • Started working through my large merge/sync list. RB 3.0 coming soon.
[15:37] <Laney> • DMB
[15:39] <seb128> rb3, great
[15:39] <seb128> Laney, speaking of DMB, what's the status of Sweetshark/libreoffice?
[15:40] <Laney> don't know, bdrung was away for a while
[15:41] <seb128> (sorry, I seem to be lagging here)
[15:42] <seb128> Laney, thanks
[15:42] <seb128> tkamppeter, hey
[15:42] <tkamppeter> - cups-filters: Working on pdftoippprinter filter for PPD-(configuration)-less printing on IPP printers, especially with mobile devices.
[15:42] <tkamppeter> - Upgraded my machines to Saucy and tried to debug a ghost monitor problem.
[15:42] <tkamppeter> - Talked with tvoss about steps needed for mobile printing (PPD-less, small-footprint, start daemon on-demand).
[15:42] <tkamppeter> - Bugs.
[15:42] <seb128> tkamppeter, thanks
[15:42] <seb128> desrt, hey
[15:42] <desrt> seb128: hey
[15:42] <desrt> so, most importantly: took seb128 to niagara falls
[15:43] <seb128> ;-)
[15:43] <desrt> this was hard work, and very boring
[15:43] <desrt> but it's done now
[15:43] <desrt> the rest of the stuff is pretty minor:
[15:43]  * seb128 hugs desrt, good job!
[15:43] <desrt> smacked down the glib bug backlog a bit
[15:43] <desrt> implemented a faster search algorithm for desktop files that includes support for intersecting results like "gno calc" (thanks larsu for design help there)
[15:43] <desrt> rebased desktop file index, added some nice testcases
[15:43] <desrt> removed the gmaincontext qdata dependency from the appinfo monitor -- i don't think i want the qdata api on gmaincontext anymore because quarks are kinda dumb for this purpose
[15:43] <desrt> wrote a png parser so that we can have a thumbnail-validity attribute on GFile
[15:43] <desrt> made some changes to and landed the gapplication commandline tool
[15:43] <desrt> landed gsubprocess (after endless years of back and forth with colin)
[15:43] <desrt> landed gnotification (after endless months of back and forth with larsu)
[15:43] <desrt> (eof)
[15:44] <seb128> desrt, thanks
[15:44] <seb128> attente, hey
[15:44] <attente> alt+shift bug
[15:44] <attente> eof :(
[15:44] <desrt> also: bought seb128 expensive beer
[15:44] <desrt> and hopefully got a full night of sleep last night, for the first time in a while :)
[15:44] <Laney> haha
[15:44] <Laney> poor attente
[15:44] <attente> it's the best beer in the world at least :P
[15:45] <seb128> that bug is b****
[15:45] <desrt> at freakin $22/bottle, it ought to be
[15:45] <Laney> wtf
[15:45] <seb128> lol
[15:45] <Laney> bring one to oak :-)
[15:45] <seb128> attente, I'm glad we finally got a SRU round out for those keyboard issues, good job, that's a tricky topic
[15:45] <desrt> Laney: they only serve it in a bar.  i don't expect they'd let you leave with it.
[15:46]  * seb128 guesses attente understands know why nobody picked those items before ;-)
[15:46] <desrt> attente: ya.. congrats for finally getting that solved.
[15:46] <desrt> and your 'hack' is not so much a hack as it is 'the way that X works' :/
[15:46] <desrt> (for better or worse)
[15:46] <seb128> everybody should pay attente a beer next week for the hard work he did this cycle on those crazy keyboard stuff
[15:46] <larsu> desrt: isn't that another word for "hack"?
[15:46] <seb128> attente, thanks
[15:46] <seb128> larsu, your turn!
[15:47] <larsu> sure
[15:47] <larsu> - look into writing a DBusObject component for accessing D-Bus from QML (have a rough prototype, waiting for feedback)
[15:47] <larsu> - indicator-sound: allow changing the volume with the left/right keys
 mentally prepared to eat a very good burger
[15:47] <larsu> eof
[15:47] <larsu> - fix panel icons not updating sometimes (thanks seb128 and attente)
[15:47] <larsu> - add TimeFormatter to unity8: an object that does what strftime does but changes the time when the timezone changes (waiting on review)
[15:47] <larsu> - other minor fixes in the indicators
[15:47] <larsu> oh yeah.
[15:47] <Laney> writing after the eof, bad form
[15:47] <desrt> methinks larsu doesn't know how 'eof' works
[15:47] <desrt> minus 3 points
[15:47] <larsu> everbody answers questions aftr the eof
[15:47] <larsu> EVERYBODY
[15:47] <seb128> you didn't answer questions
[15:48] <seb128> you kept listing items
[15:48] <Laney> that's a different f
[15:48] <desrt> eof means "start asking questions now"
[15:48] <attente> ?
[15:48] <attente> oh
[15:48] <attente> lol
[15:48] <seb128> larsu, thanks ;-)
[15:48] <larsu> desrt: you asked too quickly
[15:48] <desrt> larsu: i didn't ask anything.  only complained :)
[15:48]  * Sweetshark wonders if the niagara rushes en francais even on the US side now. I know that seb128 can be very convincing ...
[15:48] <seb128> so my turn
[15:48] <seb128> * Updated GTK to 3.8.5, found a regression, talked to upstream, got a fix and 3.8.6 out, SRUed that
[15:48] <seb128> * helped to reproduce some indicator bugs/provide debug infos/test fixes
[15:48] <seb128> * some bug triage after saucy to list things worth SRUing
[15:48] <seb128> * looked at errors.ubuntu.com most common issues
[15:48] <seb128> * tried to help attente with the keyboard layout switching/keybinding issues in saucy
[15:48] <seb128> * looked at/tested some of the ubuntu-system-settings merge requests
[15:49] <seb128> * some bug fixes/SRU for saucy (libgpod, file-roller)

[15:49] <desrt> seb forgot to mention niagara falls
[15:49] <seb128> oh, right
[15:49] <Sweetshark> desrt: thus: needs repeating ...
[15:49] <desrt> also: his increasing waistline
[15:49] <seb128> oh, yeah, I forgot a good part of the list
[15:49] <Laney> where are you guys this week?
[15:49] <larsu> toronto
[15:49] <desrt> Laney: toronto
[15:50] <seb128> saw the nice falls, got rained on, got rained on AGAIN (what's wrong with this country)
[15:50] <Laney> in someone's flat?
[15:50] <larsu> Laney: no...
[15:50] <desrt> Laney: scattered presently, but we're meeting in kensington market for lunch
[15:50] <seb128> working through Toronto's places-to-visit-for-food list from desrt-larsu-attente
[15:50] <larsu> seb128 is making good progress topo
[15:50] <larsu> *too
[15:50] <seb128> that's hard work man
[15:50] <desrt> too many good places to eat in toronto for one week
[15:50] <Laney> aha
[15:51] <larsu> it's like we'd need to come here again...
[15:51] <Laney> sounds awful, truly
[15:51] <seb128> Laney, larsu and I are currently in a Starbuck
[15:51] <desrt> hence spotty wifi
[15:51] <Sweetshark> seb128: thats ok, you are keeping the rain out of Hamburg -- exceptionally good weather here, usually we always have some little bit of rain all the time.
[15:51] <seb128> Sweetshark, not you
[15:51] <larsu> and desrt and attente are surely on their way to kensington market
[15:51] <seb128> desrt is also saying that's I'm the one bringing the rain
[15:51] <desrt> today actually looks like a pretty nice day...
[15:51] <seb128> :-(
[15:51] <bdrung> Laney: i came back yesterday
[15:51] <desrt> seb128: i only say it 'cause it's true
[15:52] <Laney> bdrung: \o/
[15:52] <desrt> it was freaking amazing in both toronto and montreal before you showed up :p
[15:52] <seb128> desrt, wait for me to go out of the starbuck, I'm sure it's going to star raining
[15:52] <larsu> raining stars?
[15:52] <desrt> seb128, larsu, attente: when do you guys want to meet?
[15:52] <seb128> start :p
[15:52] <larsu> desrt: asap
[15:52]  * larsu <-- hungry
[15:52] <Laney> EOM?
[15:52] <seb128> ok, I guess END OF MEETING
[15:52] <desrt> k.  i'll go hop on the streetcar
[15:52] <seb128> thanks everyone
[15:52] <desrt> seb128: thanks :D
[15:52]  * Sweetshark thinks desrt is taking the "blame it on Canada" game and turns it against seb128
[15:52] <seb128> Oakland next week \o/
[15:53] <desrt> attente: btw: i can explain the weirdness of your app not working properly last night
[15:53] <Laney> ya, see you saturday/sunday
[15:53] <desrt> attente: the long branch line is shutdown so _all_ cars shortturn at the humber loop
[15:53] <attente> :(
[15:53] <desrt> they have a bus connection there
[15:53] <desrt> so i guess green line for me today =)
[15:53] <Sweetshark> seb128: as for Oakland -- no need to bring that weather.
[15:53] <desrt> see you all soon.
[15:54] <seb128> Sweetshark, I'm working on it, let's see
[15:54] <Sweetshark> ;)
[15:54] <seb128> desrt, ttyiab
[15:56] <Mirv> didrocks: so also today the weekly = landing call?
[15:56] <didrocks> Mirv: yeah
[16:31]  * didrocks waves good evening
[16:32] <Laney> pushed rb to bzr
[16:32] <Laney> waiting for a rb-ubuntuone merge before uploading it
[16:34] <tkamppeter> Anyone working with emacs here?
[17:31] <happyaron> Laney: see LP: #1194117 and LP: #1243321 and tell about your feelings, :)
[17:31] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1194117 in ubuntukylin-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Version Logo in Detail dialog of "About this computer" can't be customized" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1194117
[17:31] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1243321 in ubuntukylin-default-settings (Ubuntu) "sed hacks in chroot hook script" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1243321
[17:33] <Laney> why so much branding?
[17:33] <happyaron> :)
[17:35] <happyaron> probably this is only a half that gets modified, some are done in clean ways, some other are not (and am finding more)
[17:36] <Laney> I'm pretty sure the grub one is actively wrong
[17:36] <Laney> And not sure what the effect of the others are
[17:36]  * happyaron don't think any of the above is correct
[17:37] <Laney> Indeed
[17:37] <Laney> I advise you to remove them and apply branding sensibly and in moderation :-)
[17:39] <happyaron> that's already done in raring cycle, I'm just trying my best to revert them. obiviously they don't like "regressions" so it's difficult.
[17:41] <happyaron> there were many overrides of system services in post-raring time, like avahi-daemon and modemmanager...
[18:37] <mterry> robru, I tested with saucy valac, and it worked.  I think you have saucy valac, but also have installed GTK 3.10 at some point?
[18:37] <mterry> robru, (re: deja-dup)
[18:38] <robru> mterry, hmmm, I don't think I installed gtk 3.10. I was using gnome-shell for a while but uninstalled it before 3.10 landed i thought.
[18:41] <robru> mterry, duh, how would I even check that?
[18:42] <mterry> robru, apt-cache policy libgtk-3-0
[18:42] <robru> 3.8.4
[18:43]  * mterry shakes fist at sky
[18:43] <mterry> robru, I just compiled trunk with saucy valac and gtk
[18:43] <mterry> robru, so I have cmake logic in deja-dup that checks your version of gtk
[18:43] <mterry> robru, and it only enables the optional gtk 3.10 stuff if it detects a later version
[18:43] <robru> mterry, hang on, i'll try it again in a clean vm, my dev system often has all kinds of crap installed
[18:43] <mterry> robru, ooh
[18:43] <mterry> robru, no
[18:44] <mterry> robru, maybe merge trunk into the branch firt
[18:44] <mterry> robru, I bet I fixed the detection in trunk after I branched that?
[18:44] <robru> ok, i'll try
[18:46] <mterry> seb128, is there any way we could upgrade to gtk 3.10 but patch out all their crazy regressions?  I like the new widgets
[18:46]  * mterry knows that's not reasonable, is just sad
[18:46] <xnox> mterry: which ones? =)
[18:47] <xnox> (can we cherry pick new widgets?!)
[18:47] <seb128> mterry, I can diff gtk-3-10 gtk-3-8 and apply the patch over gtk 3.10? ;-)
[18:47] <kenvandine> new widgets?  i've not really paid any attention to gtk lately
[18:47] <mterry> xnox, GtkListBox and GtkHeaderBar in particular
[18:47] <robru> mterry, oh my, that's a big diff
[18:48] <mterry> robru, which is?
[18:48] <mterry> kenvandine, https://developer.gnome.org/gtk3/stable/api-index-3-10.html is huge
[18:48] <mterry> xnox, we could cherrypick, but configure-time detection would be hard
[18:49] <robru> mterry, i merged trunk into your branch, it touched dozens of files. i was just expecting something small
[18:49] <robru> mterry, I agree, I'm eager to start using GtkHeaderBar in Gottengeography ;-)
[18:49] <seb128> mterry, we could be reasonable, get a solid LTS out and then get crazy ;-)
[18:49] <mterry> seb128, the regressions are crazy, new widgets are sexy
[18:50] <seb128> cool, we have a new gtk maintainer
[18:50] <seb128> mterry, congrats, the job is yours!
[18:50] <seb128> ;-)
[18:50] <mterry> robru, I've been doing lots of UI tweaks and build system changes
[18:50] <mterry> seb128, I hear robert_ancell is back on Desktop, I'm sure he doesn't have enough yet
[18:50] <xnox> mterry: robru: seb128: did you hear about the GTK3 CSS bug that caused last-minute ubiquity respins for saucy? Adding a class to one evenbox, caused "Install Now" button to become insensitive and hence no way to finish the install (also stealing all the events going to that button)
[18:51]  * xnox is still trying to work out if ubiquity is doing something insane.
[18:51] <mterry> xnox, :(
[18:51] <robru> yikes
[18:51] <xnox> but to be honest adding CSS class to one object, shouldn't be affecting _other_ objects without that css class defined.
[18:53] <robru> hey guys! guys. hey, guys. when can we update to trusty?!
[18:56] <kenvandine> robru, funny, i haven't really thought about updating my computer to trusty yet, but i'm itching to update my phone to trusty
[18:56] <kenvandine> oh how times have changed :)
[18:56] <robru> kenvandine, lol
[18:56] <robru> kenvandine, well I ask because i tried 'do-release-upgrade -d' last night but it didn't find trusty yet.
[18:57] <kenvandine> oh?  i thought that should work by now
[18:58] <robru> kenvandine, it mentioned trusty briefly right at the start but then it put saucy into sources.list and upgraded me within saucy.
[18:58] <mterry> robru, kenvandine: I'm on trusty
[18:58] <mterry> robru, I just manually edited sources.list
[18:59] <mterry> robru, it's pretty similar so far.  :(  I was disappointed by lack of updates
[18:59] <robru> mterry, ah, sneaky
[18:59] <robru> mterry, lol
[18:59] <mterry> Just new gcc really
[18:59] <mterry> robru, thanks for review!
[19:00] <robru> mterry, you're welcome!
[19:00] <mterry> robru, did you play with the new preferences at all?  I've been toying with the layout.  Curious if it rocks or sucks
[19:00] <robru> mterry, didn't look at it, no. just ran the testsuite.
[19:01] <mterry> robru, fair.  Oooh, we also have autopilot tests now!  You can run "make autopilot" or "make autopilot-system" to get em
[19:01] <xnox> robru: i'm running trusty since ~30min it was created. Dist-upgraded right away.
[19:02] <mterry> xnox, boring, right?   :(
[19:02] <xnox> robru: i can't remember when we enable "do-release-upgrad -d" maybe around alpha1, not sure.
[19:02] <mterry> seb128, alpha users are demanding excitement!  Better throw 3.10 in!
[19:02]  * seb128 throws mterry in
[19:02]  * seb128 adds some lions
[19:02] <mterry> :)
[19:03] <xnox> mterry: love it! new boost, new perl, new db, new postgres, new emacs, new gcc (which works with abi-compliance-checker)
[19:03] <mterry> xnox, pfft, I can't get pumped about that layer of the stack
[19:04]  * xnox goes to upload ubuntu-themes
[19:04] <mterry> yay
[19:04] <xnox> would that be a thriller?
[19:04] <mterry> xnox, shouldn't debian packages be trickling in too?
[19:04] <sarnold> you're not thrilled about the new point release of boost??
[19:04] <xnox> mterry: oh yeah, we had like a 5k hit.
[19:04] <xnox> mterry: it's all compiled on armhf, but i386/amd64 are taking a while.
[19:04] <mterry> xnox, fair enough
[19:07] <robru> xnox, what version of emacs did you upgrade from/to? I've been running trunk snapshots for as long as i can remember.
[19:08] <robru> mterry, hmm, i get a failure with the AP tests...
[19:08] <mterry> robru, ooh, do tell
[19:08] <robru> mterry, oh, nm, it looks like it's related to the GtkHeaderBar that I don't have anyway
[19:08] <seb128> xnox, you don't get to upload ubuntu-themes, that's under autolanding land
[19:08] <mterry> robru, huh, I didn't think we tested that
[19:09] <mterry> robru, yeah, that shouldn't come up...
[19:09] <robru> mterry, then what's this? http://paste.ubuntu.com/6284697/
[19:11] <mterry> robru, that's talking about the header label for the progress bar.  I'm guessing it's a race condition  :(
[19:11] <mterry> robru, is your computer super fast?
[19:11] <robru> :(
[19:11] <robru> mterry, ... yes? it's an 8-core i7.
[19:12] <mterry> robru, there's a known race in my autopilot testing, but I didn't know if real-world runs would hit it.   I can fix, I'll just have to tag some widgets
[19:12] <mterry> robru, so don't worry about AP failures yet I guess
[19:13] <robru> mterry, ok, no worries. man, I need to write some AP tests for gottengeography. it's testsuite is crap
[19:31] <ajmitch> Laney: throwing me under the bus again? :P
[19:45] <Laney> :D
[19:52] <robru> mterry, whoa, just tried deja-dup-preferences from trunk. looks great!
[19:52] <mterry> robru, nice  :)  If you run the ccpanel version, we put a little switch in the header for enabling/disabling auto backups too
[19:53] <seb128> cyphermox, can we get indicator-session and indicator-datetime from 3.10 series SRUed?
[19:53] <mterry> (or if you run 3.10, we put it in the HeaderBar)
[19:53] <robru> mterry, cool!
[19:53] <cyphermox> sure, as soon as I'm done with some merges here
[21:10] <seb128> qengho, chrisccoulson: is any of you working on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/chromium-browser/+bug/1195797? that's one of the most reported saucy issues
[21:10] <ubot2> seb128: Error: launchpad bug 1195797 not found
[21:17] <chrisccoulson> seb128, oh, no. sorry, that slipped off my radar, and i've been busy with other things ;)
[21:17] <seb128> chrisccoulson, hey, how are you?
[21:18] <chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, not too bad thanks
[21:29] <qengho> seb128: which is that?  I get 404
[21:30] <seb128> qengho, reload
[21:33] <qengho> seb128: Nope, I haven't seen this one.  I'll begin it next.
[21:33] <seb128> qengho, thanks
[21:34] <qengho> chrisccoulson: I'm stealing it.


[11:59] <Brainstorm> Updates for Bangladesh: +1285 cases (now 772127), +45 deaths (now 11878) since a day ago


[04:47] <jimp_> i am missing wireless network icon on the panel, it used to be there now can't get it back, unbuntu 9.10
[20:24] <issyl0> Hi again


[22:30] <nhaines> lyn||ian: thanks.
[22:30] <nhaines> I was up last night playing with Jekkyl.
[22:31] <nhaines> Due to my habit of writing my blog posts in Markdown and its flexible content stuffs, I'd say I was able to convert my site (minus a few hours of reading docs and tweaking things, but content-wise) in about 30 minutes.
[22:32] <nhaines> That and the Atom text editor snap was a pretty pleasant experience.


[00:00] <bodhi_zazen> Thank you for the Introduction nhandler
[00:00] <bodhi_zazen> The Ubuntu Forums is unique in the Linux community
[00:00] <sebsebseb> heh all this time  using Ubuntu and not a ubuntu fourms member.  Linuxquestions.org though yes.  ok  i'll chat in other channel :d
[00:01] <bodhi_zazen> When I first installed Linux I have to admit, I was lost
[00:01] <bodhi_zazen> I tried a few distros, but really struggled
[00:02] <bodhi_zazen> Ubuntu was recommended to me by a colleague in my local IT department :)
[00:03] <bodhi_zazen> It was a breath of fresh air to be able to ask a "noobie" question and not be ridiculed (edit other forums / communities deleted)
[00:03] <JoshuaRL> duanedesign: join #ubuntu-classroom-chat
[00:03] <bodhi_zazen> As is the case with many others , the spirit of the ubuntu community is exemplified on the forums
[00:04] <bodhi_zazen> for example, Threads: 1,037,303, Beans: 6,633,315, Members: 823,964, Active Members: 71,515
[00:04] <bodhi_zazen> What I would like to show you is some things about the forums you may not know :)
[00:05] <bodhi_zazen> First, I am assuming you all know how to use a forums ?
[00:05] <bodhi_zazen> You register and off you go :)
[00:06] <bodhi_zazen> From any page : http://ubuntuforums.org/index.php
[00:06] <bodhi_zazen> you can customize your account from the "UserCP" , a link in the upper left
[00:06] <bodhi_zazen> from there you can set many options including a sig, avatar, email, and privacy options
[00:07] <bodhi_zazen> Posts are called "Beans" and a users's title changes in a semi-random way depending on bean count.
[00:07] <bodhi_zazen> Beans give you gas, so take care :)
[00:08] <bodhi_zazen> Some very knowledgeable users have low bean counts
[00:08] <bodhi_zazen> From there , when posting or repsponding to threads you have may options or "bbcode"
[00:10] <bodhi_zazen> There is a master list here : http://ubuntuforums.org/misc.php?do=bbcode
[00:10] <bodhi_zazen> I will point out a few of the useful ones :)
[00:10] <bodhi_zazen> [code] [quote] of course
[00:10] <bodhi_zazen> but also linking to the wiki with [uhelp] [uwiki]
[00:11] <bodhi_zazen> you use the WikiName - [uwiki]RecoveringUbuntuAfterInstallingWindows[/uwiki]
[00:11] <bodhi_zazen> or
[00:11] <bodhi_zazen> [uhelp]community/SoftwareManagement[/uhelp]
[00:11] <bodhi_zazen> uhelp is for the community pages, and it is easier then remembering the entire url :)
[00:12] <bodhi_zazen> To insert an image , use [img] tags
[00:12] <bodhi_zazen> PLEASE use thumbnails with hot links :)
[00:12] <bodhi_zazen> to do that say you have a url=small image
[00:12] <bodhi_zazen> and a url=large image
[00:13] <bodhi_zazen> you embed them
[00:13] <bodhi_zazen> [url=http://large_mimage][img]http://small_image[/img][/url]
[00:13] <bodhi_zazen> :)
[00:14] <bodhi_zazen> there are tags or php, html, and noparse
[00:14] <bodhi_zazen> use noparse to show how to use the tags ;)
[00:14] <bodhi_zazen> How about smiles ?
[00:14] <bodhi_zazen> http://ubuntuforums.org/misc.php?do=showsmilies
[00:15] <bodhi_zazen> That is a master list of the smiles, you can cut and paste them
[00:15] <bodhi_zazen> :guitar:
[00:15] <bodhi_zazen> :popcorn:
[00:15] <bodhi_zazen> :)
[00:15] <bodhi_zazen> We do have a few rules :(
[00:16] <bodhi_zazen> They are easy to follow for almost everyone and they basically ask that you act in a kind, respectful, and helpful manor
[00:16] <bodhi_zazen> http://ubuntuforums.org/index.php?page=policy
[00:16] <bodhi_zazen> If you see bad behavior, what do you do ?
[00:16] <bodhi_zazen> First, best just ignore trolls
[00:17] <bodhi_zazen> Second, if you see something like spam or bad behavior, report the psot
[00:17] <bodhi_zazen> *post*
[00:17] <bodhi_zazen> If you go here : http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1145571
[00:17] <bodhi_zazen> At the bottom of each post you will see a small button
[00:17] <bodhi_zazen> http://ubuntuforums.org/images/buttons/infraction.gif
[00:18] <bodhi_zazen> click that , report your concerns, and the staff will take care of it.
[00:18] <bodhi_zazen> If you need help go to : http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=48
[00:19] <bodhi_zazen> If you have a problem or question for the staff go here http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=123
[00:19] <bodhi_zazen> or the Resolution Center.
[00:19] <bodhi_zazen> :)
[00:19] <bodhi_zazen> OK, enough of finding help and features
[00:20] <bodhi_zazen> any questions ?
[00:20] <bodhi_zazen> Otherwise I am going to show you some of the fun forms / discussion pages
[00:21] <bodhi_zazen> Oops, wrong button for reporting posts :(
[00:21] <bodhi_zazen> http://go.mibbit.com/thumb.php?x=32&y=32&url=http%3A%2F%2Fubuntuforums.org%2Fimages%2Fbuttons%2Freport.gif
[00:21] <bodhi_zazen> http://ubuntuforums.org/images/buttons/report.gif
[00:21] <bodhi_zazen> lol
[00:22] <bodhi_zazen> This link can help as well http://ubuntuforums.org/images/buttons/report.gif
[00:22] <bodhi_zazen> cut and past failure :(
[00:22] <bodhi_zazen> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1006656
[00:22] <bodhi_zazen> OK, major sections
[00:23] <bodhi_zazen> Let me first say, about 80 % of people like the layout, 20 % do not
[00:23] <bodhi_zazen> There are always discussions on changing it, but the 20 % who do not like the layout have about 100 suggestions on improvement and there has been no consensus on changes :)
[00:24] <bodhi_zazen> BUT, we are always open to ideas
[00:24] <bodhi_zazen> The "main" section for many is of course ABT : http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=326
[00:25] <bodhi_zazen> Basically this is where people can come to feel comfortable asking questions, no matter how easy they may be.
[00:26] <bodhi_zazen> Sure, perhaps "how do I install apache" may belong int the server section, but we *try* to promote more expertise in the server section
[00:26] <bodhi_zazen> such as how do I configure virtualhosts or mod_evasive ;)
[00:26] <bodhi_zazen> We then have the main support threads : http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=327
[00:27] <bodhi_zazen> There the questions start to be more specific - Hardware, installation, security, servers, etc
[00:27] <bodhi_zazen> Although our main focus is support, we do *try* to promote fun as well
[00:27] <bodhi_zazen> http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=125
[00:28] <sebsebseb> yep every popular forum should have something that isn't on topic as well
[00:28] <bodhi_zazen> Here we have things such as community discussions (LoCo, 3rd part projects, gaming, wine, art, etc)
[00:29] <bodhi_zazen> We had some additional sections sebsebseb such as the Cafe, OtherOS Talk, etc
[00:29] <bodhi_zazen> We had a problem though , as the forums grew, there were issues server side
[00:30] <sebsebseb> bodhi_zazen: that tends to happen to big forums as well
[00:30] <bodhi_zazen> Anyone recall a time not so long ago when the forums went down with some regularity ?
[00:30] <bodhi_zazen> So, we had to reduce the size and focus on our core
[00:31] <bodhi_zazen> With other OS talk, for example, we are sending Fedora Questions to the Fedora forums etc
[00:31] <mib_6etbw0> hello room
[00:31] <bodhi_zazen> This promotes other communities as well as our own and allows us to maintain a reasonable size data base.
[00:31] <bodhi_zazen> Yes we have added physical servers as well :)
[00:31] <mib_6etbw0> anyone home
[00:32] <bodhi_zazen> lol mikechelen
[00:32] <bodhi_zazen> lok mib_6etbw0
[00:32] <mib_6etbw0> I am just frustrated with unbutu
[00:32] <bodhi_zazen> Same with some of the off topic conversations
[00:32] <bodhi_zazen> mib_6etbw0: we are doing a session right now
[00:32] <mib_6etbw0> I have made several attempts on installing it on 3 differant systems and all have the same problem
[00:33] <bodhi_zazen> go to #ubuntu or ##beginners-help for support please :)
[00:33] <mib_6etbw0> no video after install
[00:33] <bodhi_zazen> otherwise I will help after this session
[00:33] <mib_6etbw0> thank u
[00:33] <JoshuaRL> mib_6etbw0: ill try to help you in ##beginners-help
[00:33] <mib_6etbw0>  for the hellp and link
[00:34] <sebsebseb> JoshuaRL: same here I guess,  I didn't even know that channel existed
[00:34] <bodhi_zazen> Back to the forums, when the data base is stable, and new servers allow, assuming we have the resources, we would consider bringing back things such as other os talk and the cafe :)
[00:34] <bodhi_zazen> although I can not "promise" such changes
[00:35] <bodhi_zazen> Just a FYI for people who have not heard :)
[00:35] <bodhi_zazen> I also lead the Ubuntu Forums Beginners Team
[00:35] <bodhi_zazen> Hard to believe , but I started that team 2 years ago
[00:35] <bodhi_zazen> The focus of the team is two fold
[00:35] <bodhi_zazen> 1. We assist new users on the forums
[00:36] <bodhi_zazen> 2. We also help people learn the Ubuntu community
[00:36] <bodhi_zazen> so once people are able to install Ubuntu, they often want to give back to the community
[00:37] <bodhi_zazen> So we show them how to become involved in Launchpad, wiki or doc team, irc, etc, etc
[00:37] <bodhi_zazen> We are branching out and are looking at configuring a moodle platform to promote learning / education of Ubuntu
[00:38] <bodhi_zazen> For people who do not know : http://moodle.org/
[00:38] <bodhi_zazen> This is a collaborative project with briad community support
[00:38] <bodhi_zazen> we will have educational content on system administration and development :)
[00:39] <bodhi_zazen> The beginners team I must say is a community within a community and to be honest we have a blast
[00:40] <bodhi_zazen> Our main channel is #ubuntuforums-beginners
[00:40] <bodhi_zazen> and all are welcome
[00:40] <bodhi_zazen> Please take note : We try to keep the channel fairly informal >:)
[00:40] <bodhi_zazen> We have several additional channels , I doubt if anyone really knows how many at this point , lol
[00:41] <bodhi_zazen> ##beginners-help is one, where we offer "overflow" to #ubuntu
[00:41] <bodhi_zazen> as you can see from earlier
[00:41] <bodhi_zazen> We have a launchpad team
[00:42] <bodhi_zazen> and our wiki page is here : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/
[00:42] <bodhi_zazen> :)
[00:42] <bodhi_zazen> OK, so that is a whirlwind overview of the fourms
[00:42] <bodhi_zazen> I would like to open this conversation to questions if I may
[00:46] <bodhi_zazen> We did have a question :
[00:46] <bodhi_zazen> DougieRichardson	Question: Do you think there is value in the Testimonials section - it seems to degrade into flame wars frequently
[00:46] <bodhi_zazen> The answer to that is two fold
[00:46] <bodhi_zazen> first, yes, the value is , if nothing else , to have these views a location where they can be voiced
[00:47] <bodhi_zazen> outside of the support threads
[00:47] <bodhi_zazen> Sometimes these conversations arise out of frustration
[00:47] <bodhi_zazen> which is natural
[00:47] <bodhi_zazen> If you are having problems running your computer you will be frustrated
[00:48] <bodhi_zazen> Many of these threads lead to solutions
[00:48] <bodhi_zazen> If, however, the threads are noting more then flame wars, they should be reported and, IMO, closed
[00:49] <bodhi_zazen> The second question how do you manage flame wars ?
[00:49] <bodhi_zazen> first, everyone is entitled to his or her opinion, and really there is no need to engage in flame wars :)
[00:49] <bodhi_zazen> If you feel you *must* post in a flame war, please do so in a polite way
[00:50] <bodhi_zazen> disagree in an agreeable way
[00:50] <bodhi_zazen> that solves 90+ % of flame wars
[00:50] <bodhi_zazen> the other 10 % should be reported to the staff, and honestly the moderators and admins are able to resolve the majority of these issues
[00:51] <bodhi_zazen> For a community of 800,000 it a very small minority who troll / flame / or have issues in the resolution center
[00:51] <bodhi_zazen> and IMO that is because we *try* to treat everyone with respect
[00:52] <bodhi_zazen> and, at the end of the day =>
[00:52] <bodhi_zazen> Respect, give it , get it, got ie ?
[00:52] <bodhi_zazen> give it , get it, got it ?
[00:52] <bodhi_zazen> lol
[00:52] <bodhi_zazen> QUESTION: do you have to use and avatar or can you use a pic or a hackergotchi (sp?).
[00:53] <bodhi_zazen> You can upload a picture from your compter
[00:53] <bodhi_zazen> or link to one
[00:53] <bodhi_zazen> Size limit I think is 90x90
[00:54] <bodhi_zazen> User CP -> Edit Avatar (on the left)
[00:54] <bodhi_zazen> --
[00:54] <bodhi_zazen> QUESTION: Some new users seem to approach the forums in the same way as commercial tech-help forums and can have a sort of "demanding" approach - this is likely to increase with more regular Windows users coming over. How do you think the forums would cope?
[00:54] <bodhi_zazen> This is similar to the previous question
[00:55] <bodhi_zazen> In my experience, with a community as large as ours, there is a saddle for every @$$
[00:55] <bodhi_zazen> If you feel a poster is demanding , move on to another thread
[00:55] <bodhi_zazen> If you fell it is out of control, report the post
[00:55] <bodhi_zazen> The staff almost always resolves these situations with polite PM
[00:56] <bodhi_zazen> it is a matter of education
[00:56] <bodhi_zazen> If they want professional support they can purchase it , just like RHEL, Windows, etc
[00:56] <bodhi_zazen> QUESTION: How far in advance is the date of Forum Council meetings announced at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumCouncilAgenda ? Is there a way to get notified other than checking that page?
[00:57] <bodhi_zazen> Meetings are announced as far in advance as possile
[00:57] <bodhi_zazen> They have not been "required" recently
[00:57] <bodhi_zazen> If the agenda gets full or there is a "crisis" we have a meeting
[00:57] <bodhi_zazen> I think meetings are posted on the fridge
[00:58] <bodhi_zazen> You can subscribe to the fridge on google (gcal)
[00:58] <bodhi_zazen> although that requires you register with the evil empire
[00:59] <bodhi_zazen> alternate , They can also subscribe to the Forum Council wiki page
[00:59] <bodhi_zazen> thanks nhandler :)
[00:59] <bodhi_zazen> Thank you everyone for coming
[00:59] <nhandler> Thank you bodhi_zazen for a great Open Week session about the Ubuntu Forums.
[00:59] <bodhi_zazen> If you ever need assistance, please com on by
[00:59] <bodhi_zazen> I am almost always on #ubuntuforums-beginners
[01:00] <bodhi_zazen> and other random channels
[01:00] <nhandler> This also concludes the Ubuntu Open Week for Karmic Koala.
[01:00] <nhandler> Logs for all sessions can be found on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek
[01:00] <bodhi_zazen> If I am not, there are otheres as well
[01:00] <nhandler> On behalf of Jono, Jorge, and and the entire Ubuntu Community, I would like to thank everyone for their great participation.
[01:01] <charlie-tca> thank you, nhandler
[01:01] <sebsebseb> nhandler: Open Week for Jaunty Jackalope you meant
[01:02] <JoshuaRL> hehe
[01:02] <james_w> is it out yet?
[01:02] <sebsebseb> james_w: no not even the first alpha yet
[01:03] <nhandler> sebsebseb: I guess. Although I personally feel that this should be considered the Open Week for Karmic (since Jaunty is already out)
[01:04] <sebsebseb> nhandler: maybe, but 9.04 stuff has been in the sessions here and there etc
[01:05] <nhandler> sebsebseb: I know.
[08:00] <G__81> Am i allowed to conduct tech sessions in this classroom when needed ?
[08:32] <genii> Maybe ask one of the channel ops
[16:53] <tlatelolco> hello, i have a question on versioning. I'm packaging wormux-0.8.3
[18:07] <AnAnt> Hello, the recorded logs of UbuntuOpenWeek are easier to read (and not truncated), than the recorded logs of Packaging/Training
[18:13] <nhandler> AnAnt: What Packaging/Training logs are truncated? And in what way are they hard to read?
[18:31] <AnAnt> nhandler: have a look at the uscan lesson
[18:31] <AnAnt> nhandler: " Don't forget also the"
[18:33] <nhandler> AnAnt: I see. Must have just been a copy/paste issue. I'll fix that up. Thanks
[18:34] <AnAnt> nhandler: thanks to you
[18:34] <AnAnt> nhandler: but I think there were other occurrences too, I'll note them if I see them again & tell you
[18:35] <nhandler> AnAnt: Actually, it wasn't a copy/paste error. But I'll fix it any way
[18:37] <AnAnt> as for how they are hard to read, I just find the log in the format: <nickname>: <text>  to be easier than:  <nickname><spaces><text>
[18:40] <nhandler> AnAnt: It really ins't <nickname><spaces><text> . It is in a table
[18:40] <AnAnt> nhandler: ah, I am using elinks
[18:40] <nhandler> ;)
[19:38] <i_> tuxitjaunty