[12:18] <mpt> So "&preferences;." ends up as "System -> Preferences ." instead of "System -> Preferences."
[12:19] <mpt> Well, &administration; has the same problem
[12:19] <mpt> so does &synaptic;
[12:19] <mpt> Extrapolation: they all have the problem
[12:20] <mdke> you're quite right
[12:20] <mdke> how shit
[12:20] <mpt> Lame workaround: don't use an entity as the last word in a sentence, or the last word in a clause, or the last word in a bracketed section
[12:20] <mpt> Perhaps the Makefile can forcibly remove terminal newlines from all the entity files? :-)
[12:21] <mdke> but synaptic.xml doesn't have a newline at the end
[12:21] <mpt> It does when I open it
[12:21] <mdke> mine ends on </menuchoice>
[12:22] <mpt> whether I open it in gedit, or abiword, or bluefish
[12:22] <mdke> I'm using gedit
[12:22] <mdke> nano shows the newline though
[12:22] <mdke> :(
[12:23] <mdke> surely there is a solution to this nonsense
[12:23] <mdke> froud: here by any chance?
[12:28] <mpt> oh, bad news
[12:28] <mpt> there's unwanted space before the entity, too
[12:28] <mpt> I think that even if we solve the newline problem
[12:28] <mpt> Entities would have to be a single line
[12:28] <mpt> with no space between tags
[12:29] <mpt> (except for the ones that are supposed to have spaces)
[12:30] <mpt> e.g. <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><menuchoice><guimenu>Applications</guimenu> <guisubmenu>Internet</guisubmenu> <guimenuitem>Firefox Web Browser</guimenuitem></menuchoice>
[12:30] <mdke> what a pita. Probably we can solve it somehow anyway, keep going on the important stuff for now
[12:30] <mpt> yeah
[12:30] <mpt> I'll report a bug about it so we don't forget it
[12:30] <mdke> I'll write to a mailing list
[12:30] <mdke> ok
[12:30] <mdke> mpt: btw, did you check that your doc validates before making the patch? I haven't checked it myself
[12:31] <mpt> No, how do I do that? With validate.sh?
[12:31] <mdke> yes
[12:31] <mdke> if it gives output, there are some issues
[12:31] <mdke> yelp doesn't require perfect docbook, y'see
[12:32] <mpt> I noticed :-)
[12:32] <mpt> root and DTD name do not match 'glossary' and 'article'
[12:32] <mdke> that sounds unusual. Can you pastebin it?
[12:33] <mpt> It's because I was using "<!DOCTYPE article" rather than "<!DOCTYPE glossary"
[12:33] <mdke> oh, you're not using <article?
[12:33] <mdke> I didn't look at that
[12:34] <mpt> and now the validator is *really* calling the waaahmbulance
[12:34] <mdke> haha
[12:35] <crimsun> hehe, the waaahmbulance.
[12:37] <mpt> oh, I can't use <legalnotice>, <copyright>, etc as direct children of a glossary
[12:38] <mpt> they need to be in <glossaryinfo>
[12:38] <mpt> DocBook is a steaming pile.
[12:40] <mdke> please don't use your own legalnotice stuff, just copy what we've done in other documents
[12:40] <mpt> I'm using the entity
[12:40] <mdke> ah magic
[12:40] <mpt> It's complaining about the stuff inside the entity
[12:40] <mdke> you can put <title> inside <glossaryinfo> too
[12:40] <mdke> then close it and begin the content
[12:41] <mpt> according to TDG's example, I shouldn't have to
[12:42] <mdke> TDG?
[12:43] <mdke> oh definitive guide
[12:46] <mpt> ok, their example glossary validates
[12:46] <mpt> now to slowly turn it into mine, and work out what exactly fails
[12:48] <mdke> mpt: I'm quite good at deciphering those error messages, if I can help (lots of practice)
[12:49] <mpt> It's "Element glossary content does not follow the DTD, expecting <insert entire DTD here>, got <whole pile of stuff here>"
[12:50] <mdke> ok, so the whole pile of stuff is the problem. You got the wrong child to <glossary>
[12:51] <mpt> Inserting &legalnotice; in TDG's example <glossary> causes it to stop validating
[12:51] <mdke> that should be inside <glossaryinfo>, I suppose. It's in <articleinfo> in our articles, and <bookinfo> in our books
[12:51] <mpt> just tried that, no worky
[12:52] <mdke> with <title> as well>
[12:52] <mdke> ?
[12:52] <mpt> "expecting (glossaryinfo? , (title , subtitle? , titleabbrev?)? , (..."
[12:52] <mpt> Does that mean <glossaryinfo> has to come before <title>?
[12:52] <mpt> or that <title> has to be a child of <glossaryinfo>?
 ?
[12:53] <mpt> aha, <glossary><glossaryinfo><title>foo</title></glossaryinfo>...</glossary> validates
[12:54] <mdke> quite
[12:54] <mpt> and so does <glossary><glossaryinfo><title>foo</title> &legalnotice;</glossaryinfo>...</glossary>
[12:54] <mpt> hooray
[12:59] <mpt> It annoys me that <listitem> requires <para> or similar
[12:59] <mpt> ok, all validating now
[01:00] <mdke> yes, that is unexpected
[01:00] <mdke> same for <step> and such
[01:00] <mpt> In other news, <xref> doesn't work
[01:00] <mdke> your usage?
[01:00] <mpt> It links to the top of the page, instead of the expected section
[01:00] <mpt> <xref linkend="control-panel" />
[01:00] <mpt> oh, am I missing a #?
[01:00] <mdke> what version of yelp do you have?
[01:01] <mpt> or is that an HTMLism?
[01:01] <mdke> if "control-panel" is a section, it should link to that section
[01:01] <mpt> Well, it correctly produces a link, and correctly gets the right title from the <glossterm>
[01:01] <mpt> it's just that the link doesn't go to the right place
[01:02] <mdke> it's <glossterm id="control-panel">, is it?
[01:02] <mpt> <glossentry id="control-panel">
[01:02] <mdke> hmm. Either it doesn't work with glossentry, just <section>, or you've found a bug in yelp
[01:02] <mdke> only one man will know
[01:03] <mpt> All the other parts of the linkage work with <glossentry>
[01:03] <mpt> so I guess it's a Yelp bug
[01:03] <mdke> I would have thought that is likely, given that glossentry is probably pretty rare
[01:03] <mdke> file it, shaun will let you know soon enough
[01:16] <mpt> Great, now I have a file that validates but that Yelp won't open
[01:17] <mdke> mpt: that's extremely odd, nay, impossible
[01:18] <mdke> any errors from yelp?
[01:18] <mpt> "The file '/home/mpt/glossary.xml' could not be parsed. Either the file does not exist, or it is improperly formatted."
[01:18] <mdke> any errors in the terminal?
[01:18] <mpt> oh, oh, here comes bug-buddy
[01:18] <mdke> have you got another instance of yelp open?
[01:19] <mpt> Yelp-ERROR **: Did not receive a reply. Possible causes include: the remote application did not send a reply, the message bugs security policy blocked the reply, the reply timeout expired, or the network connection was broken."
[01:19] <mdke> god
[01:19] <mdke> more than one yelp instance?
[01:19] <mpt> yes
[01:19] <mdke> that's what always catches me out
[01:19] <mdke> you're only allowed one
[01:20] <mdke> Yelp demands it
[01:20] <mpt> Then why does it open multiple windows?
[01:20] <mpt> grr.
[01:20] <Ubugtu> New bug: #78135 in ubuntu-doc "All entities have unwanted space before and after them" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/78135
[01:20] <mdke> thanks
[01:20] <mpt> ok, now it opens
[01:20] <mpt> thanks for the tip :-)
[01:21] <mpt> I would have taken hours to guess that myself
[01:21] <mdke> :)
[01:21] <mpt> so now I have a nice testcase of the glossary link bug
[01:29] <mpt> Reported http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=393341
[01:29] <Ubugtu> Gnome bug 393341 in docbook "Clicking an <xref> to a <glossentry> doesn't scroll to that entry" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
[01:55] <LaserJock> sure
[01:56] <mdke> correct!
[01:57] <mdke> bdmurray: you're not working on it are you?
[02:01] <mpt> mdke, updated patch sent
[02:03] <mdke> mpt: great!! How are you feeling with docbook now? pretty good?
[02:03] <mdke> or rather, as well as can be expected
[02:15] <theCore> is there plans about the restructure of the docs
[02:15] <theCore> ?
[02:15] <mdke> theCore: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TopicBasedHelp
[02:15] <theCore> mdke: thanks
[02:16] <theCore> Topic based?
[02:16] <theCore> isn't it like Windows help system?
[02:17] <mdke> mpt: newtoubuntu.xml doesn't validate
[02:17] <mdke> I'll fix it though
[02:17] <mdke> mpt: (missing <para> inside <listitem>)
[02:19] <mpt> oh, sorry
[02:19] <mpt> I only validated the glossary
[02:19] <theCore> http://www.gnome.org/~shaunm/quack/mallard.xml makes a lot of sense
[02:20] <mdke> mpt: "Ubuntu does not support faxing" <-- this should be changed to point at our doc for faxing
[02:20] <theCore> but I got some doubts about it
[02:20] <mpt> mdke, as for how I'm feeling about DocBook, the pain is encouraging me to get around to helping define the Mallard file format
[02:21] <mdke> nod
[02:23] <mpt> I'm thinking a very small subset of HTML, but with a couple of changes to the <a> element
[02:23] <mpt> and with an <if> element
[02:24] <mdke> I guess you kinda have an idea about what elements are needed
[02:24] <theCore> does it means if Project Mallard get implemented the Help buttons will actually point to the exact documentation topic, not to the application manual?
[02:24] <theCore> if so, I am in
[02:24] <mpt> theCore, yes
[02:25] <theCore> nice, need some help?
[02:25] <theCore> that always been something I wanted to change
[02:26] <mdke> mpt: committed
[02:27] <mpt> thanks :-)
[02:27] <mpt> theCore, irc.gnome.org/#docs is the best place for that
[02:27] <mpt> (albeit that there are many fewer people there than here)
[02:30] <mdke> mpt: so if you're feeling like you can commit things without breaking them, I would quite like to arrange for commit access. You've been hanging around for ages, and know your way around
[02:30] <mpt> Well, as this patch has shown, I don't know my way around
[02:30] <mpt> There were many basic things wrong with it
[02:30] <mdke> I meant around the team generally.
[02:30] <mdke> but in terms of docbook, lots of us have the same problem
[02:31] <mdke> you just need to remember to use the validator
[02:31] <mpt> That was one of them
[02:31] <mpt> another was the entities
[02:31] <mpt> another was removing the links to as-yet-non-but-soon-to-be-existent files
[02:31] <mdke> that was bad communication between you and me
[02:33] <mpt> and at the moment I present approximately 1 patch/year
[02:33] <mdke> well, whatever you prefer
[02:33] <mdke> if you're happy with patches, so am I
[02:33] <mpt> ok
[02:34] <mpt> If it becomes a bottleneck for either of us, let's reconsider
[02:34] <mdke> fine
[02:34] <mpt> but at the moment I don't trust myself that much
[02:41] <mdke> crap this serverguide structure needs some speccing up
[02:41] <mdke> i'll do it after having some sleep, I guess
[02:46] <mdke> mpt: did you have any involvement in the gnome-control-center design?
[02:48] <mdke> seems like the design could have some lovin
[03:12] <Burgundavia> mdke: ping
[03:31] <mpt> mdke, none at all
[03:55] <nixternal> Burgundavia: i knew you weren't one of us ;p
[03:55] <nixternal> girlfriend shmrilfriend
[06:18] <Jucato> nixternal: ping
[06:18] <nixternal> yo yo
[06:19] <Jucato> were you able to read the guide?
[06:20] <nixternal> nah, i have been chilling. but do have it bookmarked :)
[06:20] <Jucato> ah ok. coz it hasn't gone through peer review yet, at least the parts that I modified for Kubuntu
[10:12] <Burgundavia> nixternal: I try
[11:50] <mdke> morning
[12:21] <MaxCombo> morning
[12:59] <mdke> jsgotangco: ah, you reveal yourself! How's it going?
[12:59] <jsgotangco> pretty good, if not pretty busy at the current work
[12:59] <jsgotangco> im travelling again in a few days but in indonesia
[01:00] <jsgotangco> but the sched is getting more saner as the days go by
[01:00] <mdke> cool
[01:01] <jsgotangco> how's yourself?
[01:01] <mdke> very well thanks. My GF is away at home so I am doing a fair amount of procrastinating/Ubuntu work
[01:02] <jsgotangco> hahaha
[01:02] <jsgotangco> i haven't looked into any code for quite some time so i am rusty
[01:02] <jsgotangco> in a way i miss it though
[01:04] <froud> mdke: ping
[01:04] <froud> mdke: was you looking for me?
[01:05] <jsgotangco> wow froud how's it going on your side
[01:05] <froud> good dude, happy new year
[01:06] <jsgotangco> you too, how's business?
[01:06] <mdke> froud: hiya yeah - nasty docbook problem that I thought maybe you would know the answer to
[01:06] <froud> mdke: OK what's the problem
[01:07] <mdke> mpt filed a bug, hang on
[01:07] <mdke> froud: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-doc/+bug/78135
[01:07] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 78135 in ubuntu-doc "All entities have unwanted space before and after them" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]
[01:07] <mdke> it's about entities which are used for menu-entries
[01:09] <mdke> this is an example of a file which is included: https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk/ubuntu/menus/C/firefox.xml
[01:09] <froud> mdke: which editor is doing that XMLmind?
[01:09] <mdke> froud: I think most text editors, like nano, gedit, etc
[01:10] <mdke> but also the whitespace after the xml declaration is a problem, according to mpt
[01:10] <froud> Looks like an editor setup problem
[01:10] <froud> I need to svn co
[01:10] <froud> I will take a look at it for you
[01:10] <mdke> thanks very much indeed
[01:11] <mdke> I wondered if it was a bug in docbook
[01:13] <froud> mdke: I don't think so because it does not happen when using VI or with me in Oxygen.
[01:17] <mdke> hmm
[01:19] <mdke> froud: but on the basis that some editors do it, we need to find a way to get docbook to handle it...
[01:20] <froud> mdke: OK, perhaps we can add a method to santitize the xml during the build.
[01:21] <mdke> froud: I think maybe the only method would be to use a script which removes the newlines and expands the entities, but it's a bit dirty
[01:21] <froud> xmllint should be used with the -noent param
[01:22] <froud> that should expand all ents
[01:22] <mdke> yes, I don't have a problem with using that
[01:22] <froud> mdke: anyway lemme complete the svn co and have a look
[01:22] <mdke> froud: appreciate it
[01:23] <froud> mdke: I have some time this weekend as it happens so time is good
[01:23] <mdke> ok, well I still appreciate it :)
[01:27] <froud> mdke: question, is this new. iow, did something change to make this happen or has it always, just happened?
[01:28] <mdke> froud: always
[01:28] <froud> k. thx
[01:35] <mpt> I was just picky enough to notice it
[01:37] <mdke> I'd noticed it but I always assumed it was a problem with the file rather than the entity text. i didn't realise it was universal
[02:54] <froud> mdke: when I build dg I get this, can't remember what this meant :-)
[02:54] <froud> make dg
[02:54] <froud> make: *** No rule to make target `../build/ubuntu/desktopguide/C', needed by `dg'.  Stop.
[02:54] <mdke> froud: yeah, the building is all screwed at the moment. We moved all the documents around
[02:54] <froud> he he
[02:54] <mdke> the dg doesn't exist any more
[02:54] <froud> ho k
[02:55] <froud> So now me is on Kubuntu and install of yelp is lot sof gnome stuff depends
[02:55] <froud> mdke: anyway
[02:55] <mdke> yeah, that's true. I dunno if there is another good docbook viewer
[02:55] <froud> this is not an editor problem
[02:56] <froud> When xsltproc expand the ents it ads the whitesapce
[02:56] <froud> This means we must consider preprocessing
[02:56] <froud> i.o.w we create a temp.xml of the doc
[02:57] <mdke> does yelp use xsltproc?
[02:57] <froud> clean such circumstances and then use the resolved and sanitized temp.xml to build instead of the src
[02:57] <froud> are you seeing the problem there too?
[02:57] <mdke> yes
[02:57] <mdke> I haven't tried anything except yelp, in fact
[02:57] <froud> I think Yelp is depend on linxml2
[02:58] <froud> libxml2 provides xsltproc
[02:58] <froud> The problem is that yelp wants to read your xml
[02:58] <froud> so you ship it
[02:59] <mdke> I dunno what yelp uses to do the xml->html convertion on the fly, but whatever it is, it's got that bug
[02:59] <froud> if you want to fix it, then you would have to ship the sanitized tem.xml idea I mentioned
[02:59] <froud> or hack yelp to resolve the problem
[02:59] <mdke> yeah. Not necessarily yelp, but whatever is causing the bug, libxml2 or whatever
[02:59] <mdke> so you think that xmllint will expand the entity without creating the whitespace?
[03:00] <froud> yelp I think is using xsltproc
[03:00] <froud> let me check
[03:00] <mdke> I'll ask
[03:00] <froud> mdke: can you delete the last line in this file https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk/ubuntu/menus/C/firefox.xml
[03:01] <froud> then try the internet stuff in yelp
[03:01] <froud> by last line I mean the blank line after the closing element
[03:02] <mdke> froud: there isn't a blank line after the closing element
[03:02] <mdke> froud: at least not when i view it in gedit. There is one when i view it in nano
[03:02] <froud> Hmm in my file trust nano
[03:02] <froud> or vi
[03:03] <mdke> if I delete it with nano, and reopen it, it is still there
[03:03] <mdke> so I don't trust nano
[03:03] <froud> k
[03:03] <mdke> it's not there in vi either
[03:05] <froud> OK
[03:05] <froud> xmllint --noout --xinclude --noent --postvalid path to doc
[03:05] <froud> that will give you a complete xmlinsance
[03:06] <froud> instance
[03:06] <mdke> we should make a small test case
[03:06] <froud> redirect it to a file
[03:06] <froud> xmllint --noout --xinclude --noent --postvalid C/internet/internet.xml > temp.xml
[03:06] <mdke> ok
[03:06] <froud> But this give validty warnings
[03:07] <froud> they look like xrefs between the documents
[03:07] <mdke> that's ok, there are some minor issues with xrefs
[03:07] <froud> ok sec I just want to comment all of them for this doc on my sys
[03:07] <mdke> that breaks xmllint?
[03:07] <mdke> use add-applications.xml
[03:08] <mdke> there is only one error there
[03:09] <mdke> the output of that xmllint command is zero though
[03:09] <mdke> matt@kalliope:~/ubuntu/ubuntu-doc/trunk/ubuntu/C/add-applications$ xmllint --noout --xinclude --noent --postvalid add-applications.xml
[03:09] <mdke> matt@kalliope:~/ubuntu/ubuntu-doc/trunk/ubuntu/C/add-applications$
[03:14] <mdke> ok, the problem is still present in test.xml if I use that
[03:14] <froud> mdke: the problem is not shown here
[03:15] <froud> pasting
[03:15] <froud> <application xmlns:xi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XInclude">Firefox</application> can be launched by clicking
[03:15] <froud> <menuchoice xmlns:xi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XInclude">
[03:15] <froud>     <guimenu xmlns:xi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XInclude">Applications</guimenu>
[03:15] <froud>     <guisubmenu xmlns:xi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XInclude">Internet</guisubmenu>
[03:15] <froud>     <guimenuitem xmlns:xi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XInclude">Firefox Web Browser</guimenuitem>

[03:15] <froud> As you can see no whitespace
[03:15] <froud> So this could be a yelp issue
[03:15] <froud> or xsltproc
[03:15] <mdke> are you sure that is from an instance where the entity is being used?
[03:15] <froud> mdke how you generating the help.u
[03:16] <mdke> here is one of mine:
[03:16] <mdke>     <guimenu xmlns:xi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XInclude">System</guimenu>
[03:16] <mdke>     <guimenuitem xmlns:xi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XInclude">Administration</guimenuitem>
[03:16] <mdke>     <guimenuitem xmlns:xi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XInclude">Synaptic Package Manager</guimenuitem>

[03:16] <mdke> ..
[03:16] <mdke> new line between </menuchoice> and the period
[03:16] <froud> sec
[03:18] <froud> My line in src <application>Firefox</application> can be launched by clicking &firefox;.</para>
[03:20] <mdke> what file?
[03:21] <froud> http://pastebin.ca/307891
[03:21] <mdke> i still get the bug
[03:22] <mdke> http://pastebin.ca/307893
[03:22] <mdke> do we have different versions of xml2?
[03:22] <mdke> ii  libxml2                              2.6.27.dfsg-1ubuntu1                 GNOME XML library
[03:23] <mdke> ii  libxml2-utils                        2.6.27.dfsg-1ubuntu1                 XML utilities
[03:23] <froud> sec
[03:23] <froud> I see the problem is the extra line
[03:23] <mdke> yes
[03:23] <mdke> it's the newline before the period
[03:24] <froud> http://pastebin.ca/307896
[03:25] <froud> c line 25
[03:25] <froud> when I remove that line. ie del the last cr I get no space in output of xmllint
[03:25] <mdke> but I don't see such a line
[03:25] <froud> when I add it I get it
[03:26] <mdke> we're back to the beginning :(
[03:26] <froud> Yah but we know what causes it
[03:26] <mdke> if I open firefox.xml in vi, there is no extra line
[03:26] <mdke> so something is inserting the extra line along the way
[03:26] <froud> try do a delete after closing element
[03:26] <mdke> maybe it's a problem with the way the entity is declared?
[03:27] <mdke> the last character I have in that file with vi is >
[03:27] <froud> no if there was a decl problem you would see null in the output
[03:58] <froud> mdke: use cat -A -E menus/C/firefox.xml
[03:59] <froud> mdke: if you see a $ at end then you know there is an eol character in the file
[03:59] <froud> http://pastebin.ca/307912
[04:00] <froud> mdke: if you dont then there is no eol
[04:00] <froud> http://pastebin.ca/307913
[04:00] <mdke> froud: yes, I get that. Any idea how to get rid of that?
[04:00] <froud> I am looking for a way to automate it
[04:02] <mdke> we need to get rid of the one after the xml declaration too, that causes an unwanted whitespace before the text, according to mpt
[04:02] <mdke> but really, I don't think it should be having the effect that it does.
[04:24] <froud> mdke: script the following
[04:24] <froud> #! /bin/bash
[04:24] <froud> files=`ls *.xml`
[04:24] <froud> echo $files
[04:24] <froud> for i in tr -d '\n \f' < $files ;done
[04:24] <froud> this will give you

[04:28] <gump11> join #ubuntu-kernel
[04:32] <froud> mdke: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-doc/+bug/78135
[04:32] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 78135 in ubuntu-doc "All entities have unwanted space before and after them" [Undecided,In progress]
[04:32] <froud> that script I pasted was wrong
[04:33] <froud> mdke: it should be
[04:33] <froud> #! /bin/bash
[04:33] <froud> files=`ls *.xml`
[04:33] <froud> echo $files
[04:33] <froud> for i in $files; do tr -d '\n \f' < $files ;done
[04:40] <jeffsch> froud: maybe the xslt normalize-space() function will work.
[04:40] <jeffsch> froud: it means customizing the xslt though
[04:41] <jeffsch> but may be a cleaner solution (if it works) in the long run
[04:48] <mdke> froud: thanks, did you post that to the bug already?
[04:48] <mdke> jeffsch: perhaps you can post that too?
[04:59] <jeffsch> mdke: ok, done.
[05:00] <mdke> thanks!
[05:34] <froud> jeffsch: the thing is you would have to add that function to Yelp
[05:35] <mdke> we might be able to push it into Yelp, if it's a nice solution
[06:09] <mdke> hi Zelut
[06:09] <Zelut> mornin'
[06:10] <mdke> Zelut: I wanted to have a quick chat about the question of contributing directly to Ubuntu documentation
[06:10] <mdke> I noticed your blog post just now doesn't refer to the documentation at all, were you aware there is a dedicated documentation site, at https://help.ubuntu.com (and an anyone-can-edit wiki at https://help.ubuntu.com/community)
[06:13] <Zelut> oops. I guess I considered the wiki & help the same.
[06:13] <Zelut> I'll add it.
[06:13] <Zelut> I am planning on reviewing any of my posts and double-checking the docs for where it could be added, its just been a busy last few weeks.
[06:13] <mdke> the wiki is for the development community. there are no docs there
[06:14] <mdke> thanks.
[06:14] <mdke> The main thing I wanted to talk about is whether you would be interested in contributing some material directly to ubuntu documentation, and linking to it from your blog, instead of creating it on your blog. My last post on http://ubuntu-tutorials.com/2006/12/22/ubuntu-tutorials-giving-the-planet-a-spin/ tries to explain the reasons why
[06:14] <mdke> I don't know whether you've seen that comment yet or not, I added it recently
[06:14] <Zelut> so I guess I didn't understand the difference in wiki.ubuntu vs help.ubuntu
[06:15] <mdke> ok, all clear now I hope on that score
[06:16] <Zelut> I did see the comment and you definitely have a point.  Any post for another 4 days were all pre-written weeks ago so I'm letting those all run their course.
[06:17] <mdke> oh wow, you are well organised
[06:17] <Zelut> but I think I could start writing mainly on the docs after that
[06:17] <mdke> Zelut: I should probably apologise for the manner in which I pursue this question: I have a fervent zealot-like passion for trying to get collaboration going and avoiding reinvention of wheels in free software communities.
[06:17] <Zelut> I figured out the use of the timestamp feature in WordPress so I would dedicate a few hours and pre-write for the week :)
[06:18] <mdke> I know it can sometimes sound a bit over the top
[06:18] <mdke> but your blog is a cool tool for promotion, I wouldn't want you to stop using it to promote information, I just think the information is best created in our central resource and *then* promoted :)
[06:19] <Zelut> you're right.
[06:20] <mdke> yay.
[06:20] <Zelut> do the docs pages use the same wiki syntax as the devel wiki?
[06:20] <mdke> yes
[06:20] <mdke> lots of the pages there need some serious love
[06:20] <mdke> Zelut: if you ever need any info about how to participate or something isn't clear, please give me a shout, or someone else in here can help, like nixternal
[06:21] <mdke> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WikiGuide is probably the best starting place
[06:21] <Zelut> I've done a bit of wiki work in the past.. probably just have to review the syntax.
[06:22] <mdke> that would be very cool. And your blog would be a great way to promote the documentation wiki...
[06:22] <mdke> as you yourself prove, it's not too well understood
[06:22] <mdke> which is our fault
[06:23] <Zelut> is there a doc team in launchpad I should apply to? ..I guess make things official :)
[06:23] <mdke> there is a wikiteam
[06:23] <mdke> the docteam we keep for something else (the system docs)
[06:24] <Zelut> ok.  I am registered on the wiki team but haven't really been active for a long time.  last year it seemed fairly unorganized
[06:24] <Zelut> mdke: lets see if we can redirect this traffic to the docs. http://my.statcounter.com/project/standard/stats.php?project_id=1751189&guest=1
[06:24] <mdke> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-wiki
[06:24] <mdke> oh yeah, you're there
[06:24] <mdke> Zelut: that would be simply awesome
[06:25] <Zelut> mdke: I had to remove the Digg This button yesterday after getting front-paged for the third time in a month
[06:25] <mdke> there are some organisational issues too, we need to work on things like https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpWikiQualityAssurance
[06:25] <mdke> cool
[06:26] <mdke> yes, it would be nice if the help site got some publicity like that
[06:27] <mdke> plus of course, when material is tidied up, we can use it in the system docs
[06:29] <Zelut> so, again, (and it might because its yet early in the morning), should I work on the wiki, the help or the /community section directly?
[06:30] <mdke> Zelut: it's https://help.ubuntu.com/community.
[06:30] <mdke> if you read http://www.mdke.org/?p=67 that should clarify the whole system
[06:34] <Zelut> looking back at your wiki page I'm reminded how behind I am on my previous LaptopTesting & Wiki work.
[06:35] <mdke> I haven't done a LaptopTesting page for feisty yet, I don't think
[06:35] <Zelut> I think I've tested 6 laptops but never updated them for Edgy on the list.. /me has some work cut out for him.
[06:35] <Zelut> I can't get Feisty to boot on any of my machines..
[06:35] <mdke> now the compulsory phase has ended, I haven't got around to it
[06:35] <Zelut> md5 looks ok, but it errors out
[06:36] <mdke> it has some known problems with certain hard disks last I heard
[06:36] <mdke> not sure though, they should be fixed by now
[06:36] <Zelut> I've got a few more machines I could try it on.. didn't work on the first two
[06:36] <mdke> try a daily maybe
[06:39] <Zelut> I'm trying to figure out a way to organize my time.  I'm sure redirecting my efforts to the docs will quickly turn into revising the poorly written ones, on top of the LoCo work
[06:39] <Zelut> why is there never enough time? :)
[06:39] <mdke> yeah, the classic problem
[06:40] <mdke> heh
[06:42] <Zelut> well I'll write up a game plan and get started.  any doc-team meets I should be aware of?
[06:43] <mdke> Zelut: not at the moment, but you can inspire some :) Also, the mailing list is a good place to ask questions, make suggestions etc
[06:43] <mdke> I'm really happy that you're interested
[06:45] <froud> mdke: can I ask you a question?
[06:46] <mdke> froud: you just did
[06:46] <mdke> go ahead
[06:50] <mdke> Zelut: you need to match this many mailing lists: http://mdke.org/tmp/list.png
[06:50] <mdke> I bet others have loads more besides
[06:51] <Zelut> it'd probably help if I'd organize them the way you have.
[06:51] <Zelut> I think *you* need an assistant :)
[06:51] <mdke> do you use procmail?
[06:51] <mdke> it's great
[06:52] <Zelut> i don't think I have
[06:52] <mdke> froud: what was the question?
[06:53] <froud> mdke: how are you currently building and packing kubuntu docs
[06:54] <mdke> froud: well, using xsltproc with a slightly refined kde xslt, and then using the regular debian packaging tools
[06:54] <froud> mdke: there may be an easier way, same as upstream
[06:54] <froud> meinproc
[06:55] <mdke> froud: we moved away from it in order to keep the toolset close to ubuntu-docs
[06:55] <mdke> the mailing list archive should have some discussions on that
[06:56] <froud> OK, just meinproc adds the header footer kde for free
[06:56] <froud> But no problem
[06:56] <froud> if it works dont fix it
[06:56] <mdke> yeah, we tried it for a while
[06:57] <froud> OK
[06:57] <mdke> I think it would be nice to add a kubuntu flavour footer actually
[06:57] <mdke> but right now we use the regular KDE header/footer
[06:59] <mdke> anyhow, I need to do some ironing, back later :)
[07:37] <jeffsch> froud: you are right, as usual
[07:37] <jeffsch> it looks like removing eol from each file is the best way
[07:38] <jeffsch> normaliz-space function will be pita
[07:38] <jeffsch> but is the <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?> at the beginning of each file strictly necessary?
[07:39] <jeffsch> for eg https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk/ubuntu/menus/C/printing.xml
[07:40] <jeffsch> removing the xml declaration and all leading whitespace will solve the problem of leading whitespace in the output
[07:40] <jeffsch> it builds ok without the xml declaration
[08:00] <somerville32> You know you ubuntu too much when you start dreaming about it, lol
[08:01] <mdke> hi bhuvan
[08:01] <somerville32> I had a dream I made a commit to the SVN before running the validation script, there was an error, and I got in trouble, lol
[08:01] <bhuvan> hello mdke
[08:01] <mdke> somerville32: !!
[08:02] <mdke> bhuvan: I have started thinking about reorganising the server stuff a bit, what I'd like to do is to put it into a bit better categories instead of dividing into simply "networking" and "windows networking". The categories on https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Server might be a place to start. Are you interested in helping out?
[08:02] <bhuvan> sure i can help
[08:03] <bhuvan> so, do you mean we should do this categorisation in the same document?
[08:03] <mdke> bhuvan: well, I've made a separate directory for it. But I'd like to just do a quick plan for the structure, e.g. on the wiki, before working on the document itself
[08:06] <bhuvan> ok; i think thats a good plan. may be, i can modify https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerGuide for finalising our plan?
[08:07] <mdke> bhuvan: sounds great to me.
[08:07] <bhuvan> ok; i'll modify and post it to our list before we do the real work in our repos
[08:08] <bhuvan> thanks for reminding me about this!
[08:08] <mdke> bhuvan: thanks. We should also delete the chapters Preface, Introduction, Installating and Package Management (I've done this in my local copy already), because these things either aren't appropriate or are elsewhere in the system docs
[08:08] <mdke> we can think about shipping a version of the complete guide in a separate package for server installations
[08:09] <bhuvan> hmm ok
[08:11] <bhuvan> i wouldn't mind removing those chapters, but i think it may make it incomplete or dependent on other documents for completeness (i may be wrong though)
[08:11] <mdke> that's the whole point, it will be suplemented by the existing documents dealing with package management and so on.
[08:12] <bhuvan> ok
[08:12] <mdke> so in yelp there will be:
[08:12] <mdke> Adding, Removing Applications
[08:12] <mdke> [...]  (lower down)
[08:12] <mdke> Running Server Applications
[08:13] <bhuvan> yeah, that sounds fine
[08:14] <bhuvan> so i think, we can remove those chapters any time even before we do the restructuring (if you already have one in local copy, please feel free to commit)
[08:14] <mdke> alright, I'll commit it now
[08:15] <bhuvan> thank you
[08:16] <bhuvan> bedtimes
[08:16] <mdke> good night :)
[08:16] <bhuvan> good night
[09:35] <froud> jeffsch: no the XML Declaration is not absolutely required in terms of proceeesing. However, some parsers will not know what to do and some editors will not know to save the file as UTF-8 if this is omitted.
[09:36] <froud> I think with eol removed the whitespace before and after should be solved, no? At least that is what I am seeing here.
[09:37] <froud> jeffsch: catch your answer later.
[09:37] <jeffsch> there's still the CR after the <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
[09:37] <jeffsch> k
[09:37] <froud> Hmm
[09:38] <froud> I am not seeing it in output from xmllint
[09:38] <froud> anyway, I dont think it will be critical if it is removed, it just wont be semantically correct
[09:39] <froud> I is off to bobo land (sleeeep), later
[09:40] <jeffsch> I am seeing it with xsltproc on printing.xml
[09:40] <jeffsch> ok, 'night


[10:43] <ohno-lolz> hello tux :D
[10:44] <ohno-lolz> Can I add a wishlist for quantal here and now?
[11:20] <cjohnston> I upgraded to quantal, and seem to be having issues.. One is that I'm missing a bunch of drivers, and when I try to install I get an error that says to look in /var/log/jockey.log (http://paste.ubuntu.com/1031845/) and my theme seems to be messed up.. most windows don't look
[11:20] <cjohnston> 'polished'
[11:22] <cjohnston> any ideas what is causing my issues?
[11:31] <WarOfTheNerd> Guys, I heard something in a presentation from SABDFL about +1s now being always usable throughout the development process as a goal
[11:31] <WarOfTheNerd> is this true?  I'm a power user looking to use Lubuntu 12.10 A1
[11:33] <jtaylor> there are a couple changes that make it better, but you still need experience in solving or working around issues
[11:34] <WarOfTheNerd> jtaylor, apart from the one time that a beta foobared glibc I have always been able to fix issues >_>
[11:34] <WarOfTheNerd> (and I mean real foobar, as in an instant segfault on every binary)
[11:35] <jtaylor> glibc failures are fun :)
[11:43]  * penguin42 thinks about upgrading his main machine  to qq-alpha - but I see reference to a krunner crash; is that still a problem?
[11:46] <cjohnston> penguin42: the issues I'm having are related to drivers and the theme.. I'm actually wondering, the more that I look if my issues are because of the new kernel
[11:47] <penguin42> cjohnston: It's unusual for a kernel to do something to a theme - what are you seeing?
[11:54] <cjohnston> penguin42: additional drivers is showing 5 drivers not installed, (in precise I only ever showed one driver in the list period), when I try to install I get an error message.. the theme looks like http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/703/sessionshutter002.png/
[11:55] <cjohnston> sorry for the dela
[11:55] <cjohnston> y
[11:56] <penguin42> looks like a vanilla gnome/ubuntu theme
[11:56] <penguin42> what are the 5 drivers not installed?
[11:58] <cjohnston> PC Speaker Beeper, Intel TCO WatchDog Timer, Broadcom B43, I801 SMBus, Sonics Silicon Backplane
[11:59] <cjohnston> penguin42: according to All Settings > Appearance, the theme is Ambiance
[11:59] <penguin42> that's a *weird* set of additional drivers!
[12:00] <cjohnston> penguin42: agreed.. ive never seen it before
[12:00] <cjohnston> the only thing I have EVER had in the list before is Broadcom
[12:01] <penguin42> I think all of those are just standard kernel driver ones (except possibly the B43 and Sonics Silicon Backplane that I'm not sure about)
[12:02] <cjohnston> penguin42: when I tried activating the speaker beep, I got an error which jockey.log shows: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1031845/
[12:03] <penguin42> that just looks like all of it's debug in figuring out what you have
[12:04] <cjohnston> why would it report it as an error
[12:04] <penguin42> probably just a bug or given how early stuff is a load of debug left on
[12:05] <cjohnston> i see
[12:05] <cjohnston> any idea what the issue with the theme is? since it sounds like that may be the only actual problem I guess?
[12:06] <penguin42> nope; welcome to the world of alphas :-)
[12:06] <cjohnston> hehe
[12:06] <cjohnston> very true
[12:06] <cjohnston> I just want to make sure that its worth staying vs abandoning for a few days
[12:06] <cjohnston> all the driver stuff made me a little nervous since I had never seen any of those before
[12:07] <penguin42> cjohnston: alpha-1 is very early - expect stuff to be broken and keep changing
[12:08] <cjohnston> penguin42: yup.. the joy.. last cycle I updated the day A1 came out and ran all the way with no major issues
[12:08] <penguin42> cjohnston: That's probably a mix of it being for LTS and to fool you so that you're more gullible for qq :-)
[12:09] <cjohnston> lol
[12:09] <cjohnston> I need to learn to do testing and such.. atleast help out more since I'm willing to play
[12:10] <zniavre> cjohnston,  launching the widget factory (twf) in terminal will gives you theme error i think
[12:15] <penguin42> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/TechnicalOverview/Alpha1   would be a better link for the title wouldn't it?
[12:42] <cjohnston> penguin42: I tried rebooting (since additional drivers said to) and the drivers that I tried to install still aren't installed.. :-/
[13:14] <FernandoMiguel> ewwwww
[13:14] <FernandoMiguel> what happened to my X11??
[13:14] <FernandoMiguel> and why is the boot different?
[13:15] <FernandoMiguel> I know better than doing upgrades on a Friday
[19:10] <glosoli> where can I check the highlights future plans for 12.10
[19:10] <glosoli>  ?
[19:14] <penguin42> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/quantal/+specs
[19:15] <IdleOne> there ya go
[19:15] <glosoli> thanks
[19:44] <phoenix_firebrd> kde 4.9 beta1?
[20:29] <penguin42> don't think so yet
[20:54] <penguin42> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/TechnicalOverview/Alpha1  could do with telling people to enable updates to non-LTS
[20:55] <penguin42> do-release-upgrade -d  or update-manager -d doesn't do anything without that
[22:16] <iceroot> is it a bug or a feature that the auto-mounter is using /run/media/username instead of /media/ for removable devices?
[22:16] <iceroot> is that a new standard? or is it just done by ubuntu?
[22:17] <iceroot> and if i am correct 12.04 did not have /run  just /var/run
[22:19] <jtaylor> 12.04 has /run
[22:32] <penguin42> hmm my 12.04 box mounts stuff under /media - although it is an upgrade
[22:33] <iceroot> penguin42: yes 12.04 is using /media, 12.10 is using /var/run/username/
[22:35] <penguin42> the vm I just upgraded to qq is still using /media
[22:35] <iceroot> penguin42: unity?
[22:35] <penguin42> yep
[22:35] <Trewas> udisks2 apparently moved automagic mounts from /media to /run/media/username
[22:36] <jtaylor> makes sense to me
[22:36] <iceroot> so you think its a feature not a bug
[22:36] <penguin42> yeh I can't quite remember the reason for /run but it sounded sane at the time I heard it
[22:37] <jtaylor> hm that it mounts in run is a bit strange
[22:37] <Trewas> it makes sense for systems with multiple users that the removable media is not mounted to the same directory for everyone, why it is under /run is another question
[22:38] <iceroot> so /media/username/foobar would be better?
[22:38] <iceroot> i thought i am stupid when using cd /media/ TAB TAB TAB... and nothing came up
[22:39] <iceroot> only df was showing me that i am searching in the wrong dir
[22:39] <penguin42> iceroot: Was this a fresh install?
[22:41] <iceroot> penguin42: no
[22:41] <penguin42> hmm interesting that it seems not to have happened for me
[22:41] <iceroot> penguin42: it was an upgrade from 12.04 lubuntu to 12.10 lubuntu
[22:41] <penguin42> iceroot: I'm using an Ubuntu vm here
[22:42] <iceroot> strange
[22:42] <penguin42> oh
[22:42] <penguin42> actually it has!
[22:43] <penguin42> iceroot: the vm has a /media/floppy but when I double clicked a cd it mounted as /run/media/dg/mount
[22:43] <penguin42> iceroot: So it has done it as a user specific dir in /run
[22:43] <iceroot> penguin42: like my system
[22:43] <penguin42> iceroot: Yeh
[22:44] <penguin42> iceroot: Some of the idea of /run in general is explained here http://wiki.debian.org/ReleaseGoals/RunDirectory#Overview
[22:44] <penguin42> iceroot: The idea of being able to work with a ro / is nice
[22:45] <iceroot>  /run replaces several existing locations described in the Filesystem Hierarchy Standard
[22:45] <iceroot>  like /dev/.*
[22:45] <iceroot> writable files under /etc → /run/*
[22:46] <penguin42> yes please don't copy and paste it
[22:46] <iceroot> just showing the "highlights"
[22:46] <iceroot> seems to be a bigger change with /run
[22:47] <iceroot> you have an idea what "writeable files under /etc" means?
[22:47] <penguin42> iceroot: I'm assuming things like resolv.conf
[22:48] <iceroot> hm is that a good idea to put that on a tmpfs?
[22:48] <iceroot> specially that file
[22:49] <penguin42> iceroot: Well that was just a guess! But it would seem to be for just temporary dhcp recovered stuff


[01:04] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: gnome-desktop3 (hirsute-proposed/main) [3.38.5-1ubuntu2~21.04.1 => 3.38.5-1ubuntu2~21.04.2] (ubuntu-desktop)
[07:20] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: ibus-avro (hirsute-proposed/universe) [1.2-2 => 1.2-2ubuntu21.04.1] (no packageset)
[07:58] <sil2100> juliank: hey! The shim set that's in hirsute-proposed, that's all good to go, right?
[07:58] <juliank> sil2100: yeah, xenial one too
[08:01] <sil2100> juliank: okay, what about the fwupd situation? Is that only re: focal's fwupd? Xenial is fine (since it's also still using fwupdate)?
[08:02] <juliank> sil2100: I wasn't aware we had a signed *fwupdate* on xenial
[08:03] <juliank> sil2100: this would break, surely
[08:04] <juliank> sil2100: people told me xenial would be fine because there's no signed fwupd in xenial, I guess nobody checked for a fwupdate
[08:05] <juliank> sil2100: so I guess we have to block-proposed-xenial and discuss :/
[08:05] <juliank> sil2100: hirsute is definitely good to go, though
[08:20] <sil2100> juliank: re: xenial, I guess someone with more experience with how it was done in xenial would have to take a look, since I don't really remember what the situation was there - but I think we still had fwupdate there going on
[08:20] <sil2100> I'll proceed with hirsute for now and wait a bit with xenial just-in-case
[08:25] <cpaelzer> Hi ubuntu-archive people, anyone around to unblock open-iscsi that is in impish-new queue?
[08:26] <cpaelzer> that was a late addition to Debian (we had this for quite a while) under a slightly different name - hence it now is in NEW
[08:26] <sil2100> o/
[08:27] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted fwupd [amd64] (impish-proposed) [1.5.11-0ubuntu1]
[08:27] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted fwupd [armhf] (impish-proposed) [1.5.11-0ubuntu1]
[08:27] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted fwupd [arm64] (impish-proposed) [1.5.11-0ubuntu1]
[08:27] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted open-iscsi [amd64] (impish-proposed) [2.1.4-0ubuntu1]
[08:27] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted open-iscsi [armhf] (impish-proposed) [2.1.4-0ubuntu1]
[08:27] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted open-iscsi [riscv64] (impish-proposed) [2.1.4-0ubuntu1]
[08:27] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted open-iscsi [arm64] (impish-proposed) [2.1.4-0ubuntu1]
[08:27] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted open-iscsi [s390x] (impish-proposed) [2.1.4-0ubuntu1]
[08:27] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted open-iscsi [ppc64el] (impish-proposed) [2.1.4-0ubuntu1]
[08:58] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: ubuntu-release-upgrader (hirsute-proposed/main) [1:21.04.13 => 1:21.04.14] (core)
[09:11] <tjaalton> the focal daily image is from Friday, should it have been built over the weekend or is there some issue holding it back?
[09:12] <laney> tjaalton: llvm-12 needs promoting
[09:12] <laney> it's YOU!
[09:13] <tjaalton> ha! :D
[09:13] <laney> in general you can find the logs under https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/cd-build-logs/ubuntu/focal/
[09:13] <tjaalton> but, I'd have thought it was already?
[09:13] <laney> which then link you to the actual log on LP
[09:13] <tjaalton> doko: ^ kernel-packages team has subscribed to the bugs
[09:14] <laney> check rmadison, it's just that it needs to be done in focal too
[09:16] <laney> I can do that
[09:17] <tjaalton> ok that'd be great
[09:17] <laney> or if doko has the command handy that would be easier, so I don't have to work out exactly which packages to prmote
[09:32] <laney> alright nm, I did it, it should be good in an hour or so
[09:32] <tjaalton> sweet, thanks
[09:34] <laney> be good if pg13 could move over so we can drop 11 out of main
[09:45] <tjaalton> annoying how common it is for sru-review to miss spamming/tagging the bugs
[10:35] <sil2100> xnox: hello! Will you have some time to verify LP: #1933093 ? Sadly, from what I see the current pi-gadget build process doesn't respect the snappy image PPA when pulling in flash-kernel
[10:39] <sil2100> ...maybe that's actually something we'd want to fix, let me take a look
[10:50] <xnox> sil2100:  i think it doesn't respect building from -proposed at all. last time i had to hack it locally _a lot_ to make it use something from -proposed.
[10:50] <xnox> sil2100:  or we could copy the -proposed flash-kernel into the right PPA and then rebuild and test.
[10:50] <xnox> sil2100:  I am planning to look into it today/tomorrow. I have a lot of SRUs to verify.
[10:50] <xnox> but currently doing a battle with greenhouse.
[10:51] <laney> don't throw stones

[10:53] <sil2100> xnox: yeah, currently the pi-gadget build doesn't respect *any* PPA, just the main archive (and non-proposed), but I'll try to get that fixed
[10:55] <juliank> laney: Is britney not checking build-depends when doing migrations? I'm wondering how grub2-signed migrates if it breaks cd-boot-images-amd64:  * cd-boot-images-amd64                     build-depends on missing grub-efi-amd64-signed:amd64 (= 1.169+2.04-1ubuntu45)
[10:56] <juliank> maybe people hacked that manually
[10:57] <juliank> maybe it's only checking the opposite direction
[10:59] <laney> juliank: No it's not. Steve disabled that.
[11:00] <juliank> OK
[11:00] <juliank> makes me sad
[11:01] <laney> yeah...
[13:00] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: rejected nova [source] (bionic-proposed) [2:17.0.13-0ubuntu3]
[13:15] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted nova [source] (bionic-proposed) [2:17.0.13-0ubuntu3]
[14:04] <utkarsh2102> ubuntu-archive: hello, would you have time to take a look at LP: #1915445, please? (MIR of python-aws-requests-auth)
[14:06] <laney> tjaalton: I rebuilt ubuntu-desktop/focal/amd64, looks good now
[14:07] <utkarsh2102> similarly, LP: #1152187 (last 5 comments), please.
[14:07] <laney> tjaalton: do you know why libllvm9 is still being pulled in?
[14:22] <tjaalton> laney: yeah I tested it already, is good. and no I don't know about libllvm9..
[14:24] <laney> be good to get it off
[14:25] <tjaalton> shouldn't be due to any package dep
[14:34] <tjaalton> where can I find the source for the cd build?
[14:34] <tjaalton> the tool that builds it
[14:36] <tjaalton> dunno if it matters, but there's a typo for the libllvm exclude rule
[14:36] <tjaalton> ! Excluding packages from extra: ['lldb-*', 'liblldb-*', 'clang*', 'libclang*', 'libllvm-*', 'libfuzzer-*', 'liblld-*', 'libomp-*', 'lld-*', 'libc++-*', 'libc++abi-*', 'llvm-*']
[14:36] <tjaalton> ha
[14:37] <tjaalton> it says 'libllvm-*' but should be 'libllvm*'?
[14:54] <laney> :/
[14:54] <laney> Not sure it's right to fix that, I feel like it would break stuff
[14:54] <laney> although I forgot exactly what Extra-Exclude does
[14:55] <laney> actually not break, it's just for supported isn't it
[14:55] <laney> anyway I think the libllvm9 problem is because we can't really remove things from images, the Task: problem
[14:56] <laney> (later images in a stable series, when they have a Task field in the release pocket)
[15:15] <sil2100> waveform: https://github.com/snapcore/pi-gadget/pull/76 <- could you take a look at that?
[15:15] <waveform> sil2100, will do
[15:15] <sil2100> xnox: ^ also, wow, I was not aware we were building pi-gadget snaps with -proposed enabled all the time right now...
[15:15] <sil2100> That didn't sound safe for me, so uh, I'd prefer to get that changed with the PR
[15:16] <waveform> sil2100, sure -- I'll cherry-pick across to 20-armhf as well once I've reviewed
[15:17] <sil2100> Yeah, so basically I'm not even sure if our cross-compiling stuff works, so maybe this could be cleaned up - but this is a good start
[15:20] <xnox> sil2100:  i wonder if anonymouse should check that too.... given his alternative / competing merge proposal.
[15:20] <xnox> sil2100:  ideally we'd copy the proposed from the host, i.e. if snap build in launchpad is triggered to build with proposed do that; otherwise build without it, etc.
[15:22] <waveform> xnox, does https://github.com/snapcore/pi-gadget/pull/73 actually compete with this?
[15:25] <sil2100> xnox: yeah, that's what my PR does, at least for non cross-compiling
[15:26] <sil2100> If one is cross-compiling, I assume the developer can change the cross-sources to enable/disable proposed as they wish
[15:27] <sil2100> waveform, xnox: yeah that PR from Ian wouldn't really help here, it's like a separate thing
[15:27] <sil2100> Since pi-gadget does a few crazy things to pull in the sources in the Makefile
[15:28] <waveform> sil2100, I got the impression it's "related" in that it's dealing with the snappy-dev ppa, but doesn't deal with the -proposed stuff
[15:33] <doko> laney, just promote the source and the one library package. did you already start?
[15:38] <laney> doko: yes, done, I copied what was done in impish
[15:45] <sil2100> waveform: yeah, it's related but also not, since it does add the ppa to the snapcraft.yaml pieces, but it won't have effect on any of the stage_package calls we do - which is what my PR tries to tackle ;)
[15:46] <laney> juliank: unknown thing seems to work, will merge it
[15:46] <laney> sil2100: you can have staging back
[15:47] <juliank> laney: +1
[15:47] <laney> I had to hack runner/autopkgtest to make unknowns btw
[15:47] <laney> pinning doesn't work because of that crazy embedded script which calculates the version
[15:48] <waveform> sil2100, okay -- all looks sane -- just going to try a couple of builds on a pi and on a PC to double-check then I'll merge and cherry-pick it over to the armhf branch
[15:49] <waveform> sil2100, is it worth dealing with anonymouse's at the same time? (given it's related)
[15:57] <laney> doh
[15:58] <laney> don't `charm build` with uncommitted stuff :(
[15:58]  * laney silly
[16:15] <laney> w00t first card done
[17:36] <teward> what's the process for requesting a sync blacklist again?
[17:36] <teward> got something that probably should be sync blacklisted for a bit
[18:34] <seb128> teward, https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-archive/+junk/sync-blacklist
[18:34] <teward> E:NoAccess so i'll just have to open a bug.  and then point AA at it
[18:34] <teward> thinking the latest stuff with Audacity deserves a sync blacklist
[18:34] <teward> 'cause of GPL violations too
[18:34] <teward> just my two cents
[18:35] <teward> (even if it's Universe, it's still something we should probably cease syncing at the moment, and just keep copying until a valid 'ng' alternative comes out)
[20:43] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted ubuntu-release-upgrader [source] (hirsute-proposed) [1:21.04.14]
[21:21] <sergiodj> hi there, I'd appreciate if someone could look at https://code.launchpad.net/~sergiodj/britney/+git/hints-ubuntu/+merge/405209 please.  thanks


[02:11] <cmaloney> Ugh
[02:15] <Mooncairn> I installed the latest version straight from the development team, and of course debugging was compiled into it.
[02:15] <Mooncairn> Fortunately, Debian unstable now has the latest version with debugging compiled out.
[02:16] <Mooncairn> I only had to download another 3 or 4 dependencies from Debian to get it to install because Ubuntu doesn't have them.
[02:17] <Mooncairn> No more spurious log messages, though. :-)
[02:20] <cmaloney> nice
[03:49] <Mooncairn> In Firefox (snap) I tried saving files to /tmp and they're not there. I'm assuming Firefox's /tmp got sandboxed somewhere, but where?
[03:56] <Mooncairn> Found it. Had to sequentially run `find . -name $FILENAME` on /home then /tmp. It had root permissions. I had used sudo to ls that directory once before and hadn't seen anything.
[03:57] <Mooncairn> Next time had to sudo into a root shell and then go poking around.
[04:24] <cmaloney> I hate snaps for that reason
[04:24] <cmaloney> among others


[20:09] <Unit193> Rhonda: That's one massive changelog.
[21:59] <Unit193> FWIW, https://paste.opendev.org/show/bF71d6A11sxhETXi5kZy/ is my diff.


[19:10] <taeaad> wonko: What about wonky?
[19:11] <taeaad> Eickmeyer: MBPs are surprisingly useful once you have uninstalled macOS.
[19:12] <Eickmeyer> taeaad: HAHA!
[19:24] <wonko> taeaad: let's see how long I hold onto this. :)
[19:25] <wonko> Eickmeyer: If I didn't need OSX/Windows for the NI software I would totally do that.
[19:25] <wonko> because holy hell linux would be so much better on this laptop than osx
[19:25] <Eickmeyer> Can confirm, I have a Mac Mini that I use as an Ubuntu server.
[19:26] <wonko> It's a bit older (mid-2015 MBP) and OSX has gotten very, very bloated
[20:00] <rgh> taeaad: however, MBPs do a fine job at running instagram
[20:08] <wonko> This one is fine as long as I don't try to use Google Meets, run a git hook and use Goland at the same time.
[20:42] <taeaad> rgh: Lol, why instagram
[20:47] <Eickmeyer> !ot


[07:05] <pitti> Bonjour tout le monde !
[08:03] <Laney> hey hey!
[08:04] <RAOF> Ho ho!
[08:08] <Laney> hey RAOF
[08:10] <pitti> hey Laney, good morning RAOF
[08:10] <Laney> hey pitti, how's it going?
[08:10] <Laney> good weekend? ;-)
[08:11] <pitti> Laney: ah, just a boring and quiet Sunday evening
[08:11] <pitti> Laney: nah, we went to Dresden to visit some friends, and of course survived the two hours of tension last night
[08:11] <Laney> yeah me too, the pub was dead
[08:11] <Laney> :P
[08:11] <pitti> and then watched the celebrations until 1 am or so
[08:12] <Laney> ha
[08:12] <Laney> watched, not participated in?
[08:13] <pitti> Laney: well, both -- we and some neighbors watched/celebrated, but we also watched TV :)
[08:13] <pitti> quite fun with 8 people
[08:13] <Laney> I bet
[08:14] <Laney> glad it didn't go to penalties
[08:14] <pitti> not the same as the 500.000 who went to Berlin on the "Fanmeile" of course :)
[08:14] <pitti> yeah, me too; I hate penalty shooting
[09:21] <Laney> haha
[09:21] <Laney> I tried to run otto on my desktop
[09:22] <Laney> didn't go well
[09:22] <Laney> (yes, it does warn you)
[09:38] <Laney> pitti: do you know if I can use otto on a canonistack instance?
[09:39] <Laney> want to reproduce https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/autopilot-testrunner-otto-utopic/1299/testReport/junit/ubuntu_system_settings.tests.test_about/AboutTestCase/test_imei_information_is_correct_with_mouse_/
[09:40] <pitti> Laney: if their QEMU provides an emulated graphics card, it might even work; but I've never heard someone trying
[09:40] <pitti> (i. e. trying to boot a desktop live system on Canonistack)
[09:41] <pitti> Laney: but NB that we haven't had desktop images (at least not in /current) since May 22
[09:41] <pitti> ah, /pending is fine I suppose
[09:42] <Laney> what does this otto runner use?
[09:42] <pitti> I don't know the otto runners at all; but I suppose /current
[09:43] <Laney> nod
[09:43] <Laney> I thought it was you who set this up
[09:43] <pitti> that's mostly didrock's/jibel's baby
[09:44] <Laney> oh well, /me tries this
[09:45] <Laney> I'm not sure why this might happen /var/local/autopilot/autopilot.log: dbus.exceptions.DBusException: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.NoServer: Failed to connect to socket /tmp/dbus-PASLyVEStb: Connection refused
[09:54] <Laney> no joy
[10:13] <darkxst> Laney, I have seen errors like that at build time due to lacking $HOME, not sure if that applies to autopilot also though
[10:21] <darkxst> Laney, ^in build time tests that use dbus
[10:24] <Laney> darkxst: hmm, don't think that's going on here
[11:09] <Laney> pitti: alternatively, have you ever seen an error like ^^^?
[11:09] <Laney> it's a system bus started by dbusmock
[13:11] <alex_abreu> mvo_, ping
[13:12] <mvo_> alex_abreu: in a meeting right now, but pong
[13:12] <alex_abreu> mvo_, ok, tell me when you 2 mns
[13:22] <mvo_> alex_abreu: now
[13:23] <alex_abreu> mvo_, :) ... about silo 4 ... what manual ack actions are needed?
[13:24] <mvo_> alex_abreu: I take care of it, it contains a packaging change
[13:24] <mvo_> alex_abreu: and all of those need to be acked by someone
[13:24] <alex_abreu> mvo_, ok I thought it was something thgat I had to do
[13:24] <alex_abreu> ok
[13:25] <mvo_> alex_abreu: but its fine, its just a change to the debian/install file, I acked it :)
[13:25] <alex_abreu> ok thx
[15:47] <chrisccoulson> qengho, how's chromium looking?
[15:51] <qengho> chrisccoulson: Almost ready. Alex A found a problem with settings, and I'm fixing it.
[17:05] <Laney> bye!
[17:05] <Laney> so peaceful without the french ;-)
[17:14] <xnox> =)))
[17:14] <xnox> Laney: and the Northern Irish =)


[00:00] <gsilvapt> The order of the commands should be, clone that tree from cgit, use pull-debian-source dolphin and using quilt series/next/push/pop -a/, create a diff, remove the upstream tree, and push the source code from there?
[00:01] <clivejo> no, the chnage is needed in our packaging
[00:01] <clivejo> https://git.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/+git/dolphin
[00:01] <gsilvapt> Hum. So I use this repo instead of the cgit's?
[00:01] <clivejo> basically KCI does a cascade merge
[00:02] <clivejo> kubuntu_artful_archive > kubuntu_stable > kubuntu_unstable
[00:02] <clivejo> so santa has been preparing for an upload to artful archive of dolphin 17.04.2
[00:03] <gsilvapt> Hum, okay then I'll put this one aside
[00:04] <clivejo> the cascade merge, copies any commits to the artful branch into kubuntu_unstable
[00:04] <clivejo> but unstable is used to package the lastest source code from KDE git
[00:04] <clivejo> which contains the fix
[00:05] <clivejo> so we need to remove the patch from kubuntu_unstable branch, to fix the issue
[00:06] <gsilvapt> then I should use the kubuntu-packagers git repository and perform all those tasks I described?
[00:06] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_lskat build #232: FAILURE in 4 hr 0 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_lskat/232/
[00:06] <gsilvapt> Sorry if these are dumb questions but sometimes this gets a bit overwhelming
[00:06] <clivejo> well LP is broken right now
[00:07] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project artful_unstable_lskat build #34: FAILURE in 4 hr 0 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/artful_unstable_lskat/34/
[00:07] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project zesty_unstable_lskat build #156: FAILURE in 4 hr 0 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/zesty_unstable_lskat/156/
[00:07] <tsimonq2> clivejo: Not any more
[00:07] <clivejo> you could use our tooling
[00:08] <clivejo> git-clone-all -s dolphin -b kubuntu_unstable
[00:08] <clivejo> that will grab the git repo and put it in the folder dolphin/git
[00:08] <clivejo> and checkout the kubuntu_unstable branch all in one command
[00:09] <gsilvapt> Hum
[00:09] <gsilvapt> There might be something wrong in my end
[00:10] <gsilvapt> Traceback (most recent call last):
[00:10] <gsilvapt>   File "/home/gsilvapt/Documents/ka/git-clone-all", line 18, in <module>
[00:10] <gsilvapt>     from lib.ka_configuration import *
[00:10] <gsilvapt> ImportError: No module named 'lib'
[00:10] <gsilvapt> I may be missing some python package
[00:11] <clivejo> https://git.launchpad.net/ka/tree/README
[00:12] <clivejo> well more https://git.launchpad.net/ka/tree/INSTALL
[00:13] <clivejo> there is a package called kubuntu-automation will install all the deps
[00:14] <gsilvapt> i don't recall missing one but lets try that
[00:14] <gsilvapt> Apparently I did, lol.
[00:16] <gsilvapt> so now I have to remove the patch using quilt pop?
[00:20] <tsimonq2> gsilvapt: yep
[00:21] <gsilvapt> The patch isn't applied as I'm seeing
[00:21] <tsimonq2> Then use the guide I linked to refresh it
[00:22] <gsilvapt> Nothing. I'm going through the package as I'm checking the guide.
[00:22] <gsilvapt> I tried quilt refresh, quilt series (the patch is there), quilt applied (returns No patches applied)
[00:23] <tsimonq2> $ quilt pop -a
[00:23] <tsimonq2> [...]
[00:23] <tsimonq2> $ while quilt push; do quilt refresh; done
[00:23] <tsimonq2> Key commands ^^^^
[00:26] <gsilvapt> if I do quilt pop -a, it returns no patch removed
[00:26] <gsilvapt> is that okay?
[00:26] <tsimonq2> yep
[00:29] <gsilvapt> I should keep using the commands below that to remove the patch since that is our case (When the patch can be reverse-applied [...])
[00:51] <gsilvapt> I'm not 100% sure if this is what I had to do but I pushed anyway and proposed a merge. Hope you guys can tell me what to do next as my fix is likely incomplete.
[00:51] <gsilvapt> Now I'm headed to bed. Thanks for the help!
[01:05] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project artful_unstable_analitza build #47: STILL FAILING in 4 hr 0 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/artful_unstable_analitza/47/
[02:39] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_stable_dolphin build #20: FAILURE in 4 hr 0 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_stable_dolphin/20/
[02:39] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project zesty_stable_dolphin build #45: FAILURE in 4 hr 0 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/zesty_stable_dolphin/45/
[02:40] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project artful_stable_dolphin build #45: FAILURE in 4 hr 0 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/artful_stable_dolphin/45/
[04:11] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_lskat build #233: STILL FAILING in 4 hr 0 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_lskat/233/
[04:12] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project artful_unstable_lskat build #35: STILL FAILING in 4 hr 0 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/artful_unstable_lskat/35/
[04:12] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project zesty_unstable_lskat build #157: STILL FAILING in 4 hr 0 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/zesty_unstable_lskat/157/
[05:11] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project artful_unstable_analitza build #48: STILL FAILING in 4 hr 0 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/artful_unstable_analitza/48/
[06:45] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_stable_dolphin build #21: STILL FAILING in 4 hr 0 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_stable_dolphin/21/
[06:45] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project zesty_stable_dolphin build #46: STILL FAILING in 4 hr 0 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/zesty_stable_dolphin/46/
[06:45] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project artful_stable_dolphin build #46: STILL FAILING in 4 hr 0 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/artful_stable_dolphin/46/
[07:54] <acheronuk> morning
[07:55] <acheronuk> LP buildd-manager still borked it seems. queues only growing and builds stalled
[09:11] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project artful_unstable_kalgebra build #24: STILL FAILING in 4 hr 0 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/artful_unstable_kalgebra/24/
[09:32] <gsilvapt> Hum, lskat is failing but we fixed it a few days ago. Locally, it was building. Lets see what we have in the log
[09:39] <lordievader> Good morning
[09:41] <acheronuk> gsilvapt: launchpad had/has technical issues which messed up most builds
[09:41] <acheronuk> hopefully sorted soon
[09:42] <gsilvapt> hum, that explains the super strange output in lskat
[09:42] <gsilvapt> dolphin is something else. Hopefully we managed to figure out the issues last night so it has a fix ready
[09:52] <BluesKaj> Hey folks
 @gsilvapt, I don't see a MP from you?
[09:57] <gsilvapt> CliffordTheBigRedDoggie, This should be it; https://code.launchpad.net/~gsilvapt/kubuntu-packaging/+git/dolphin/+merge/325793
[09:58] <gsilvapt> Beware that I'm not 100% confident if that fixes the problem. This is related with a patch applied upstream that causes errors downstream. The diagnose was to delete the patch. I tried but I'm not sure if that's it :D
[10:01] <santa_> gsilvapt: the target for that merge request is ksudoku
[10:01] <gsilvapt> dammit
[10:01] <gsilvapt> I'll fix it. thanks!
[10:02] <gsilvapt> Bah, I wrote the thing properly, but forgot selecting "other" :D
[10:06]  * acheronuk runs 'pre pub lunch' errands
[10:06] <acheronuk> may not be around until late pm now
[10:20] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project artful_unstable_kalgebra build #25: ABORTED in 1 hr 3 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/artful_unstable_kalgebra/25/
[11:14] <clivejo> what is wrong with LP anyways?
[11:21] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_kopete build #197: STILL UNSTABLE in 1 hr 41 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_kopete/197/
[11:22] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project artful_unstable_analitza build #49: STILL FAILING in 1 hr 1 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/artful_unstable_analitza/49/
[11:49] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project artful_unstable_analitza build #50: STILL FAILING in 21 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/artful_unstable_analitza/50/
[12:15] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[12:15] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project artful_unstable_kalgebra build #26: FIXED in 26 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/artful_unstable_kalgebra/26/
 (Photo, 1280x630) https://irc-attachments.kde.org/oB09UxCs/file_2813.jpg
 yay
 yay what?
 @clivejo, buildd-manager process kept getting killed
 @acheronuk, looks pretty
 oh, the prompt? which is that?
 I changed to fish shell and added a theme
 oh, part of fish then.
 yea an addon manager called fisherman
 cool :)
 mm && does not seem to work in fish tho
[13:27] <mparillo> On AA, it looks as if Plasma 5.10.2 landed from the Archive (minus the two new packages), replacing my PPA versions this morning. All seems well.
 :)
[13:39] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project artful_unstable_kopete build #31: FAILURE in 4 hr 0 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/artful_unstable_kopete/31/
[13:40] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project zesty_unstable_kopete build #132: FAILURE in 4 hr 0 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/zesty_unstable_kopete/132/
[13:40] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project zesty_stable_kopete build #43: FAILURE in 4 hr 0 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/zesty_stable_kopete/43/
[13:40] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_stable_kopete build #11: FAILURE in 4 hr 0 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_stable_kopete/11/
[13:41] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project artful_stable_kopete build #22: FAILURE in 4 hr 1 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/artful_stable_kopete/22/
[14:24] <santa_> tsimonq2: hi, are you around?
[14:36]  * tsimonq2 yawns
[14:36] <tsimonq2> santa_: Hi :)
[14:38] <santa_> tsimonq2: I'm would like to start with those test resbuilds soon, could you update your ppa with the things we discussed yesterday?
[14:39] <tsimonq2> santa_: Sure, although I think the CI train one is good now, no?
[14:40] <tsimonq2> santa_: Wait, I'll talk to mitya...
[14:52] -KubuntuManual:#kubuntu-devel- [kubuntu-manual] ahoneybun pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vHxKN
[14:52] -KubuntuManual:#kubuntu-devel- kubuntu-manual/master 6ded6cf Aaron Honeycutt: update welcome to 17.10 and WIP status
[15:02] <travis-ci> ahoneybun/kubuntu-manual#35 (master - 6ded6cf : Aaron Honeycutt): The build passed.
[15:02] <travis-ci> Change view : https://github.com/ahoneybun/kubuntu-manual/compare/ebb3ac00ec24...6ded6cf1f669
[15:02] <travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/ahoneybun/kubuntu-manual/builds/243697922
[15:11] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project artful_unstable_kopete build #32: NOW UNSTABLE in 1 hr 31 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/artful_unstable_kopete/32/
[15:11] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project zesty_unstable_kopete build #133: NOW UNSTABLE in 1 hr 25 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/zesty_unstable_kopete/133/
[15:19] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project artful_stable_kopete build #23: NOW UNSTABLE in 1 hr 32 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/artful_stable_kopete/23/
[15:19] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project zesty_stable_kopete build #44: NOW UNSTABLE in 1 hr 33 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/zesty_stable_kopete/44/
[15:30] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_stable_kopete build #12: NOW UNSTABLE in 1 hr 43 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_stable_kopete/12/
[15:41] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project mgmt_docker » master build #1582: SUCCESS in 1 min 2 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/mgmt_docker/label=master/1582/
[15:41] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project mgmt_docker » linode-01 build #1582: SUCCESS in 1 min 6 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/mgmt_docker/label=linode-01/1582/
[15:44] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project mgmt_docker » swy-01 build #1582: SUCCESS in 3 min 50 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/mgmt_docker/label=swy-01/1582/
[15:44] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project mgmt_docker » swy-02 build #1582: SUCCESS in 4 min 11 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/mgmt_docker/label=swy-02/1582/
[17:22] <santa_> tsimonq2: let me insist: I think you need to update the symbols of qtmultimedia https://buildd.debian.org/status/package.php?p=qtmultimedia-opensource-src&suite=experimental
[17:22] <tsimonq2> santa_: yep we're aware
[17:23] <tsimonq2> santa_: I'll be going live with that Ubuntu On Air session soon so mitya57 is the contact for that
[17:24] <santa_> ok
[17:31] <mitya57> santa_, no need to remind, we track that :)
[17:44] <santa_> mitya57: well simon said yesterday he was waiting to sync some packages from debian experimental, but they are still these couple of i386 failures. besides that small issues, what's right now the difference between https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/ubuntu/2819/+packages and https://launchpad.net/~tsimonq2/+archive/ubuntu/qt/+packages ? I see they are some packages in simon's ppa which are not on the ci ppa (I guess the
[17:44] <santa_> extra packages in simon's are the NEW ones right?) + there's a newer version of qtdeclarative-opensource-src in simon's
[17:45] <mitya57> santa_, Simon’s PPA is for test builds, and 2819 will be used for landing to archive.
[17:45] <mitya57> Not everything has been copied to 2819 yet, but I will copy that later.
[17:45]  * mitya57 is debugging the s390x crashes right now
[17:46] <santa_> mitya57: thank you, could you please ping me when done, I wanted to do some test rebuilds outside the official infra
[17:46] <mitya57> santa_, what packages exactly do you need?
[17:48] <santa_> mitya57: if possible all of qt 5.9
[17:51] <mitya57> santa_, copied four new packages, but qtmultimedia is not ready yet
[17:52] <mitya57> I’ll try to upload it to Debian now, but LP will pick it up only tomorrow.
[18:20] <clivejo> tsimonq2: will qtvirtualkeyboard be included?
[18:21] <clivejo> it is needed for the new onscreen keyboard login/unlock in Plasma 5.10
[18:32] <tsimonq2> clivejo: Yes, talk to lisandro
[18:32] <lisandro> clivejo: possibly with many 3rd party stuff turned off
[18:32] <lisandro> same as OpenSuse guys did
[18:33] <lisandro> check kde-dists for details
[18:33] <lisandro> (the ml)
[19:04] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[19:04] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project artful_unstable_dolphin build #28: FIXED in 46 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/artful_unstable_dolphin/28/
[19:04] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[19:04] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_dolphin build #401: FIXED in 47 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_dolphin/401/
[19:05] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[19:05] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project zesty_unstable_dolphin build #191: FIXED in 47 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/zesty_unstable_dolphin/191/
[19:13] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[19:13] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_lskat build #234: FIXED in 20 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_lskat/234/
[19:13] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[19:13] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project zesty_unstable_lskat build #158: FIXED in 20 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/zesty_unstable_lskat/158/
[19:14] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[19:14] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project artful_unstable_lskat build #36: FIXED in 21 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/artful_unstable_lskat/36/
[19:50] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[19:50] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project artful_stable_dolphin build #47: FIXED in 13 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/artful_stable_dolphin/47/
[20:23] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[20:23] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[20:23] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project zesty_unstable_analitza build #123: FIXED in 16 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/zesty_unstable_analitza/123/
[20:23] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project artful_unstable_analitza build #51: FIXED in 16 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/artful_unstable_analitza/51/
[20:24] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[20:24] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_analitza build #356: FIXED in 16 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_analitza/356/
[20:24] <tsimonq2> santa_: https://codereview.qt-project.org/#/c/197746/
[20:36] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[20:36] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_stable_dolphin build #22: FIXED in 20 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_stable_dolphin/22/
[20:36] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[20:36] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project zesty_stable_dolphin build #47: FIXED in 20 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/zesty_stable_dolphin/47/
[21:24] <santa_> tsimonq2: what's that?
[21:25] <tsimonq2> santa_: mitya57 needed to fix some tests
[21:26] <santa_> tsimonq2: is that in the packaging already?
[21:27] <tsimonq2> santa_: He's working on it right now
[21:27] <tsimonq2> santa_: So not yert
[21:27] <tsimonq2> *yet
[21:31] <santa_> tsimonq2: I have already scheduled a frameworks test rebuild, autopkgtrollings included, status pages available here: http://gpul.grupos.udc.es/buildstatus_ubuntu-exp3/
[21:32] <tsimonq2> \o/
[21:32] <tsimonq2> santa_: lol, autopkgtrollings
[21:33] <santa_> cause they are meant to troll package maintainers
[21:33] <santa_> I have been trolled a lot today
[21:34] <tsimonq2> XD
[21:41] <santa_> https://git.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/+git/konqueror/tree/debian/patches/kubuntu_fix_failing_test.diff?h=kubuntu_artful_archive&id=ed2c3771c346c9d6d174a31468e23c1853797d67
[21:41] <santa_> big trolling
[21:45] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[21:45] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_kwin build #242: FIXED in 29 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_kwin/242/
[21:49] <clivejo> !info qbittorrent
[21:50] <tsimonq2> santa_: I don't know KCI's status at the moment, but if this isn't already integrated, I'd highly recommend integrating autopkgtrolling so that when y'all upload to the archive, you already know what fails and you can override what fails *before* it's uploaded ;)
[21:51] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[21:51] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project artful_unstable_kwin build #54: FIXED in 36 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/artful_unstable_kwin/54/
[21:51] <santa_> tsimonq2: we don't have that yet and it doesn't seem like easy to do
[21:52] <santa_> t least not for me, since I didn't write the pangea tooling
[21:52] <tsimonq2> santa_: Ah ok
[21:53] <santa_> I also have been considresing re-wrtiting the kci code in python, but that's not precisely a weekend job
[21:53] <tsimonq2> santa_: If you wanted to make it mandatory for a build to pass, you could just add the code running the autopkgtests to the end of the existing build process
[21:53]  * tsimonq2 shrugs
[21:53] <tsimonq2> Just a thought, it would certainly make things faster when uploading
[21:54] <santa_> obviously yes
[21:54] <tsimonq2> Also, things like piuparts would be useful too
[21:54] <santa_> obviously yes
[21:55] <santa_> or a cheaper things than piuparts
[21:57] <tsimonq2> Exactly.
[21:57] <tsimonq2> piuparts just came to mind.
[21:59] <santa_> see "spectrum" https://phabricator.kde.org/w/kubuntu/black-operations/
[22:00] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project zesty_unstable_kwin build #223: UNSTABLE in 45 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/zesty_unstable_kwin/223/
[22:06] <tsimonq2> santa_: With "Emerald Lake," I'm looking to set up some sort of Qt CI that *ubuntu and Debian people can use
[22:07] <tsimonq2> santa_: Part of that may be getting some tooling for it
[22:09] <santa_> aha
[22:20] <acheronuk> https://www.kubuntuforums.net/showthread.php?t=72001
[22:21] <acheronuk> "In an educational insti tution we have 50 PCs in a computer room and we need students to not change the wallpaper, bars, menu, etc (configurations). How can I solve that?"
[22:21] <acheronuk> using Kubuntu 17.04 - Plasma ^^^
[22:28] <clivejo> don't let the students use them?
[22:40] <clivejo> there was a tool called kiosk
[22:41] <clivejo> I think the new tool was called confine
[22:41] <tsimonq2> acheronuk: Run a script on login that doesn't give them the permissions to edit the files :P
[22:41] <clivejo> https://cgit.kde.org/confine.git/
[22:42] <clivejo> it was for locking down computers like this
[22:42] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[22:42] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project zesty_unstable_kwin build #224: FIXED in 42 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/zesty_unstable_kwin/224/
[22:43] <clivejo> OMG
[22:44] <clivejo> Simon just popped up on my screen!
[22:45] <tsimonq2> Oh? :P
[22:45] <clivejo> scary!
[22:45] <tsimonq2> Huh?
[22:45] <tsimonq2> lol
[22:45] <clivejo> recommended Youtube
[22:46] <clivejo> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqiu9uC_qTU
[22:46] <clivejo> with you as the thumbnail
[22:49] <gsilvapt> Hello all
[22:49] <clivejo> hi gsilvapt
[22:50] <gsilvapt> Is LP stable by now?
[22:50] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[22:50] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project merger_granatier build #822: FIXED in 16 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/merger_granatier/822/
[22:54] <clivejo> well thats relative
[22:55] <gsilvapt> I assume that's a no? :)
[22:55] <clivejo> well its working
[22:56] <clivejo> just a bit slow
[22:58] <gsilvapt> Hum, I see
[23:02] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_kdenlive build #492: STILL FAILING in 10 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_kdenlive/492/
[23:03] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_kmag build #217: STILL FAILING in 11 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_kmag/217/
[23:04] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project zesty_unstable_kajongg build #153: STILL FAILING in 11 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/zesty_unstable_kajongg/153/
[23:04] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_kajongg build #154: STILL FAILING in 12 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_kajongg/154/
[23:05] <clivejo> !info libmlt-dev xenial
[23:05] <clivejo> !info libmlt-dev zesty
[23:06] <gsilvapt> weird, kajongg and kmag were building locally at the time. Lets have a look
[23:06] <gsilvapt> Ah
[23:06] <gsilvapt> Xenial builds...
[23:09] <gsilvapt> !info libkf5kio-dev xenial
[23:09] <gsilvapt> !info libqt5core5a xenial
[23:09] <gsilvapt> !info libqt5printsupport5 xenial
[23:09] <gsilvapt> !info libqt5widget5 xenial
[23:10] <gsilvapt> How about all these packages? Can we make a backport request of so many packages?
[23:10] <clivejo> well libkf5kio-dev was called kio-dev back then
[23:11] <gsilvapt> (I'm thinking of all other games I worked on before that will break if packages do not exist in xenial or previous releases
[23:12] <gsilvapt> Hum, makes sense. But should we include all previous versions in the debian/control? It does not make sense to me
[23:14] <clivejo> you can use the or |
[23:15] <gsilvapt> Hum, I see. Is there a way to know which packages already exist with another name?
[23:15] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_kdenlive build #493: STILL FAILING in 7 min 58 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_kdenlive/493/
[23:16] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_kajongg build #155: STILL FAILING in 6 min 33 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_kajongg/155/
[23:16] <acheronuk> clivejo: pinch the Neon packaging: https://packaging.neon.kde.org/forks/mlt.git/
[23:17] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project zesty_unstable_kajongg build #154: STILL FAILING in 7 min 44 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/zesty_unstable_kajongg/154/
[23:17] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_kmag build #218: STILL FAILING in 8 min 32 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_kmag/218/
[23:17] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[23:17] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project zesty_unstable_mbox-importer build #151: FIXED in 24 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/zesty_unstable_mbox-importer/151/
[23:17] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[23:17] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project zesty_unstable_pim-data-exporter build #139: FIXED in 24 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/zesty_unstable_pim-data-exporter/139/
[23:17] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[23:17] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project zesty_unstable_kalarm build #134: FIXED in 24 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/zesty_unstable_kalarm/134/
[23:17] <clivejo> dunno if I can be bothered to backport that!
[23:18] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[23:18] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project zesty_unstable_kmail-account-wizard build #102: FIXED in 25 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/zesty_unstable_kmail-account-wizard/102/
[23:18] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[23:18] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project zesty_unstable_kalgebra build #106: FIXED in 26 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/zesty_unstable_kalgebra/106/
[23:18] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[23:18] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_kalgebra build #315: FIXED in 26 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_kalgebra/315/
[23:20] <clivejo> gsilvapt: not really, just experience
[23:25] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[23:25] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project zesty_unstable_kdepim-addons build #243: FIXED in 32 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/zesty_unstable_kdepim-addons/243/
[23:25] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_kstars build #517: NOW UNSTABLE in 33 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_kstars/517/
[23:29] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Starting build #4 for job iso_artful_unstable_amd64 (previous build: FIXED)
[23:33] <gsilvapt> Hum, someone did something to kstars, I believe
 fixed upstream
 https://cgit.kde.org/kstars.git/commit/?id=35e6bf5769409ebf02e33b5db80ab73244d14acf
[23:36] <gsilvapt> Yea, I was looking into that right now, acheronuk :)
[23:49] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project iso_artful_unstable_amd64 build #4: SUCCESS in 19 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/iso_artful_unstable_amd64/4/
[23:55] <gsilvapt> Are these tests important? http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/
[23:55] <gsilvapt> Or do you guys only use it when release schedules is coming up?
[23:57] <acheronuk> for milestones, so if we do alpha1 we will use it then
[23:59] <gsilvapt> Ok. So There are some artful daily milestones. Not so important?


[17:51] <blackboxsw> sweet cloud-init 17.1.25  hit xenial
[17:51] <blackboxsw> ok blog post rework this afternoon
[20:23] <jdandrea> I see how to set http/s proxy and no_proxy for apt. Is there a way to set proxies for the default environment? Suspecting it's not wise to just blow away /etc/environment (and I can't append).
[20:43] <smoser> jdandrea: there is not.
[20:44] <smoser> you could use boothook to intelligently update /etc/environment (boothooks run every boot)
[20:44] <smoser> but generally speaking its just a pita when you try to set http_proxy globally
[20:44] <smoser> like that
[20:44] <jdandrea> @smoser Ok. I ask because without that then the apt settings aren't as helpful for us on first boot.
[20:44] <smoser> so i really don't recommend it.
[20:44] <jdandrea> @smoser Hmm, ok. I wish this lab wasn't behind a proxy. :/
[20:45] <smoser> so.. why isnt it helpful for you on first boot ?
[20:45] <smoser> basically, static http_proxy and https_proxy fall apart as soon as you try to use an address that isnt proxy-able
[20:45] <jdandrea> We also set no_proxy tho
[20:45] <smoser> yes, but that is vastly insuffiicent
[20:46] <jdandrea> Indeed it is. I wish I had a better option.
[20:46] <smoser> gnu tools read it sanely, and allow you to use wildcard and even cidr entries
[20:46] <jdandrea> In another lab they have proxyless gateways so it's a sinch.
[20:46] <smoser> but python (and other languages) do not.
[20:46] <jdandrea> s/sinch/cinch
[20:46] <smoser> so they're uselss.
[20:46] <smoser> adn then, you do something like launch a container, and it has its own network that wasnt in your http_proxy and you are foobarred again
[20:46] <jdandrea> Aye, and in those use cases that's already taken care of with install. I'm really more concerned with bootstrapping things.
[20:47] <smoser> here is what i do:
[20:47] <smoser>  http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~smoser/+junk/sstack-proxy/view/head:/sstack-proxy
[20:47] <smoser> so bootstrapping ? as in with maas ?
[20:47] <jdandrea> Right, I get that. Presuming I have a solid handle on communicating proxy settings down to various bits, I'm left with trying to get things to a happy state during cloud-init. In this case it's just cloud-init stuffs that are kicked off after an OpenStack nova boot.
[20:47] <jdandrea> Reading...
[20:48] <jdandrea> This particular lab already has a proxy server, thus I suspect something like tinyproxy wouldn't fly (?).
[20:48] <smoser> ah. ok. i see.
[20:49] <jdandrea> Basically I wish they didn't have one, but ... hands tied.
[20:49] <smoser> jdandrea: oh. i run the tiny proxy on the host
[20:49] <smoser> and point http_proxy/https_proxy at *it*
[20:49] <jdandrea> @smoser Ah
[20:50] <smoser> then you dont ever have to change your http_proxy/https_proxy vars
[20:50] <jdandrea> Ohhhh
[20:50] <smoser> and you can just update tinyproxy and restart
[20:50]  * jdandrea gets clue
[20:50] <smoser> and then all things get updated
[20:50] <smoser> the issue is its slower than no proxy
[20:50] <jdandrea> Right, and in this case I'm betting folks won't like that. But hey, if I can get it to work sanely...
[20:51] <jdandrea> So it requires at least one reboot, ya?
[20:51] <jdandrea> (Not necessarily a bad thing.)
[20:51] <smoser> well, a new session after /etc/environmetn is wrtten, yeah.
[20:51] <smoser> and daemons restarted possibly.
[20:51] <jdandrea> Ok
[20:51] <jdandrea> I will study this. Thank you!
[20:51] <smoser> actually , daemons do not read /etc/environment enerally speaking
[20:51] <smoser> you can make similar change to systemd config...
[20:52] <jdandrea> Right. This is there purely so that the one-time scripts that are running at boot time can do their thing, and then they will communicate proxy settings to whatever services need them from that point on.
[20:52] <smoser> i dont think we added an  'environment' config to cloud-init
[20:52] <smoser> but i have wanted to.
[20:52] <jdandrea> I think I can replace /etc/environment but I suspect that is a Very Bad Idea(tm). :D
[20:52] <smoser> ie, cloud-init would read your settings in 'environment:' and update its environ.
[20:52] <jdandrea> mhm mhm that's what I was looking for, like for apt.
[20:53] <smoser> jdandrea: i'm surprised at the amount of peole that write proxy data into e/tc/environment
[20:53] <jdandrea> Well, honestly? I'd rather not do that.
[20:53] <smoser> it seems without a solution like tinyproxy to be copmetely a broken idea to me.
[20:53] <smoser> so yeah, i'd stay out of taht.
[20:53] <jdandrea> But it *looks* to me (and I could be wrong)... like Ubuntu needs to know about proxies early on in cloud-init. I may be wrong.
[20:53] <smoser> what is it that you ahve to do before then ?
[20:53] <smoser> what is "ubuntu" ?
[20:54] <smoser> in this case... what uses ?
[20:54] <jdandrea> Because there are some things it's trying to get and it can't reach some servers. Ubuntu meaning Ubuntu 14.04 or 16.04.
[20:54] <smoser> apt will do the right thing.
[20:54] <jdandrea> Lemme try and make a minimal paste to show...
[20:54] <jdandrea> I could also just be wrong. :)
[20:55] <smoser> my 'sstack-proxy' came from usage of a cloud that was simliarly configured.
[20:55] <smoser> in that you can't get to the interwebs without proxy
[20:55] <smoser> but i only did things that *needed* access after cloud-init was up and hadn run that
[20:56] <jdandrea> @smoser So this is early on in cloud-init. The IPv6 I'd ignore. But the pollinate stuff overall... connecting to entropy: https://hastebin.com/ucaviyajuq.rb
[20:56] <smoser> http://paste.ubuntu.com/25969929/
[20:56] <jdandrea> This is before any user scripts are run, methinks.
[20:56] <smoser> thats my user-data that i run
[20:56] <smoser> for use case of general system i want to go to.
[20:57] <jdandrea> *nod*...
[20:57] <smoser> you can probably ignore the pollinate.
[20:57] <smoser> they shouldnt cause trouble generally.. failure shoudl not cause issue
[20:57] <jdandrea> Ok, then in that case I don't need to touch environment.
[20:57] <jdandrea> Whew.
[20:57] <smoser> timeouts suck though
[20:57] <jdandrea> Yeah. And y'know it may have absolutely nothing to do with proxies. Could also be noisy neighbors.
[20:57] <jdandrea> (Now seeing 1 minute downloads take 45. Um...)
[20:57] <smoser> you can also i think tell cloud-init to disable pollinate. if you dont like its warnings.
[20:58] <jdandrea> TIL: can disable pollinate. Thanks! Good to know
[20:58] <jdandrea> Hopefully we don't need the entropy. XD
[20:59] <jdandrea> Appreciate the insight. I will look at both of these pastes.
[20:59] <smoser> actually i'm wrong. you can't disable pollinate.
[20:59] <smoser> ewll, you can, but not through cloud-init.
[20:59] <smoser> (you could with a bootcmd:
[20:59] <jdandrea> Hehe. But... it's not a total disaster if it doesn't do its thing.
[20:59] <jdandrea> ?
[20:59] <jdandrea> Ah, ok.
[21:00] <smoser> ln -sf /bin/true /usr/bin/pollinate
[21:00] <smoser> jdandrea: its supposed to be seeding random data.
[21:00] <smoser> so it reads some random information off of a remote web service and writes it to /dev/random
[21:00] <smoser> to help with entropy
[21:00] <jdandrea> *nodnod*
[21:00] <smoser> entropy quality in a vm is a complicated topic
[21:00] <jdandrea> But if it can't reach it... "because proxy"... yeah.
[21:01] <jdandrea> Oh yes, I can imagine.
[21:01] <smoser> people suggest that not having enough entropy when your ssh host keys are generated could leave you at risk of attack
[21:02] <jdandrea> Right. Threat models and all that. So... yeah. Something to ponder.
[21:02] <smoser> oh.
[21:02] <smoser> you're runnign 14.04 there
[21:02] <smoser> 16.04 i dont think will spew error to console
[21:03] <jdandrea> Yup. BUT... 16.04 in some cases.
[21:03] <jdandrea> Ok.
[21:03] <smoser> basically your complaint was "fixed"' by siliently failing :)
[21:03] <jdandrea> Bwahahaha!
[21:03]  * jdandrea applauds
[21:03] <smoser> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cloud-init/+bug/1554152
[21:03] <jdandrea> Let me just turn down that baby monitor... :p
[21:04] <smoser> actually, openstack
[21:04] <smoser> will provid eyou with some blob of random data from the server
[21:04] <smoser> in metadata
[21:04] <smoser> (soo does azure)
[21:04] <smoser> and cloud-init will use that
[21:05] <smoser> so that provides locally to the cloud the value that pollinate would provide.
[21:07] <jdandrea> Ok, then we're good.
[21:07] <jdandrea> But really, beyond pollinate, I can set the proxies within a user script and it's fine.
[21:07] <jdandrea> And it's temporary. After that the service/VNF that comes up does the right thing.
[21:07] <jdandrea> I'm just glad I don't need to touch /etc/environment.
[21:19] <smoser> yeah./bu13
[21:39] <blkadder> Perhaps a silly question but why is touching /etc/environment considered such a bad thing? Reading through https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EnvironmentVariables there is nothing saying “OMG this is super bad don’t touch.”
[22:15] <blackboxsw> smoser: rharper just pushed a cut at sourcing logfile paths from the cloud-init cfg to https://code.launchpad.net/~chad.smith/cloud-init/+git/cloud-init/+merge/333513
[22:15] <rharper> blkadder: I suspect in general, system wide variables can cause problems in places that may be unexpected;  I would think per-application settings are generally preferred; reading the wiki page; it sounds like that's the line on /etc/environment; which is (IMO) sane policy
[22:16] <blkadder> Definitely preferable to do per app but if this indeed was intended to be have a global, persistent effect that would seem to be the place to do it.
[22:17] <blkadder> Totally off-topic for here just found the earluer convo interesting…
[22:17] <blkadder> earlier...
[22:17] <blkadder> Understood about side-effects though.
[22:23] <rharper> blkadder: yeah, not that off topic for system initiazation