[08:50] <leoquant> !connection
[14:41] <tcole> Good morning
[14:41] <tcole> how's everyone doing today?
[14:46] <artir> \o/
[15:06] <tcole> pretty quiet in here
[15:07] <tcole> everyone still waiting on invites?
[15:07] <tcole> invite processing should speed up soon, but at present we're still turning the crank very slowly
[15:07] <tcole> trying to avoid scaling too quickly and being the next twitter :)
[15:22] <gnomefreak> invite?
[15:22] <tcole> invitations, for the service
[15:22] <gnomefreak> oh i didnt think it was needed. Unless the email i got was the invite when it first surfaced
[15:26]  * artir wants access to the API :)
[15:28] <tcole> which API did you have in mind?
[15:30] <tcole> (is what you're looking for not available in the ubuntuone-client package?)
[15:47] <artir> i want to do something like
[15:47] <artir> import ubuntuone
[15:48] <artir> and after init sth, do self=ubuntuone.get_items()
[15:48] <artir> print self
[15:48] <artir> or stuff like that
[15:48] <artir> or ubuntuone.push("/home/lol/cheese.png")
[15:55] <lamalex> i like that you have a user named lol
[15:55] <artir> of course
[15:55] <artir> who doesn't? :P
[15:56] <greg-g> o/
[16:00] <artir> greg-g: check your /home
[16:00] <artir> there is a hidden lol user put there by canonical
[16:01] <artir> nobody can see it, not even root
[16:01] <artir> it's part of their plan to take over the world, nothing bad at all :)
[16:01] <greg-g> artir: then how am I supposed to find it? :)
[16:02] <artir> you can't mwahahaha
[16:03] <tcole> so really a simplified wrapper API on top of the raw API
[16:04] <artir> canonical will probably release it for the OSCON conference
[16:04] <artir> it think
[16:04] <tcole> release what?
[16:10] <dobey> uhm. well
[16:10] <dobey> ubuntuone-storage-protocol /is/ that api
[16:11] <dobey> there will be additional APIs for new services as they are necessary and added, though
[16:12] <tcole> well, it isn't really
[16:12] <tcole> it's not that easy to use
[16:12] <tcole> but it is the raw API
[16:13] <dobey> well, it's not trivial. but ubuntuone.push() could mean a vast number of things for ubuntu one. (and i don't see how for the storage service, it would be any different than just moving a file into the My Files directory)
[16:14] <tcole> that assumes you can run the syncdaemon, or want to
[16:15] <tcole> anyway, anyone can use the API we have now
[16:15] <tcole> but I do maintain that it needs a nicer wrapper on it so it is easier to use
[16:17] <dobey> i really wish fuse wasn't awful
[16:18] <tcole> indeed
[16:18] <tcole> boxbot is terrible
[16:19] <dobey> what is boxbot?
[16:21] <tcole> nobody likes boxbot
[16:21] <tcole> http://www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=205
[18:55] <toros> I see we have an unshare feature \o/
[18:55] <toros> thank you guys!
[18:59] <tcole> we're slowly getting there :)
[19:00] <tcole> (and you're welcome)
[20:41] <sladen> wii #ubuntuone
[20:42] <sladen> Could somebody assist me in getting a general overview of u1 and how it fits together
[20:42] <sladen> The first thing I'm after are the clear names for the separate componets/layers
[20:43] <sladen> Rather than just "Ubuntu One"
[20:47] <tcole> hm
[20:47] <tcole> well
[20:47] <tcole> Ubuntu One is destined to be a suite of services
[20:47] <tcole> the only one currently on offer is the dropbox-like file storage + sharing
[20:47] <tcole> but more are in development
[20:47] <tcole> for the storage service in particular
[20:48] <dobey> i think he's looking for clear definition between "suite of services" and "what those services are"
[20:48] <dobey> ie, during the CC meeting, there was lots of confused discussion about "what is the platform" and "what are the services"
[20:48] <dobey> because they are all "Ubuntu One"
[20:48] <tcole> hm, I'm not even sure how to answer that really
[20:49] <tcole> there are several different ways to categorize things depending on what perspective you're coming from
[20:50] <tcole> I mean, as a developer, I know how I'd split up the components/layers
[20:50] <tcole> but that may not be what you're asking?
[20:50] <BUGabundo> guud evening
[20:51] <dobey> hi BUGabundo
[20:51] <dobey> BUGabundo: i got the weight conversion backwards. the u820 is about 0.8KG
[20:51] <dobey> Kg even
[20:52] <BUGabundo> you know
[20:52] <sladen> tcole: dobey:  okay, so you specifically mentioned the dropbox-like functionality.  When you're drinking coffee next to the water cooling, how do you verbally refer to that 'corner'
[20:52] <BUGabundo> I read it on identica, and already knew you were wrong
[20:52] <BUGabundo> lol
[20:52] <tcole> sladen: storage
[20:52] <dobey> sladen: 'storage'
[20:53] <dobey> BUGabundo: i just got it backwards, but eh
[20:53] <sladen> what a boring name.  (Thank you for the clear answer though).
[20:54] <tcole> the code name was hammertime
[20:54] <sladen> tcole: that's precisely the answer I'm looking for
[20:54] <tcole> we don't call it that now though
[20:54] <dobey> well, storage is storage
[20:54] <BUGabundo> I'm just waiting for the *extra* features
[20:55] <dobey> if we implemented chat, we'd call it chat, not storage :)
[20:55] <BUGabundo> right now, I don't see U1 being more then a poor Dropbox clone
[20:55] <sladen> it helps to have an arbitary term to refer to 'X' that is not 'X' and therefore would not occur in general conversation when talking the generic implemetnation of Xs
[20:56] <dobey> well, it's 'ubuntu one storage' then
[20:56] <sladen> BUGabundo: I don't.  But such confusion occurs when there is only one application, one protocol, one server and one implementatino of each of those
[20:56] <dobey> dropbox works ok as 'dropbox' because they only do one service
[20:56] <BUGabundo> yep
[20:56] <BUGabundo> and they do it darn *good*
[20:56] <tcole> we actually used to have the opposite problem with Launchpad
[20:56] <tcole> we gave everything individual product names
[20:56] <BUGabundo> of course they have been longer doing it
[20:57] <dobey> and i remember everyone used to call 'evolution' "ximian" :(
[20:57] <tcole> and then nobody knew what things were
[20:57] <tcole> so eventually it just became Launchpad code, Launchpad bugs, etc...
[20:57] <sladen> BUGabundo: if you think back to the introduction of "remixes" for Ubuntu diverivatives, lots of people (journalists) got confused and saw 'remix' as the brandname for the first example (Netbook _Remix_) because there was only one
[20:58] <sladen> tcole: dobey: I've filed several bugs at  https://launchpad.net/ubunet/  because that's where I came across the first bug report
[20:58] <sladen> which "bit" is 'ubunet'
[20:59] <tcole> that's a private project for backend stuff basically
[20:59] <BUGabundo> sladen: yeah I remember that
[20:59] <dobey> ubunet is the server and is only temporarily ubunet. we'll be renaming it soon
[20:59] <tcole> any user-visible things are associated with ubuntuone-client, including the web UI
[20:59] <BUGabundo> but ppl do mixed up OS with Distro too... but that OT here
[20:59] <sladen> tcole: so ubunet is the implementation of a $something server
[20:59] <tcole> well, no
[20:59] <dobey> BUGabundo: yes, people just say 'that linux thang' and have no idea which distro they mean
[20:59] <BUGabundo> sladen: I have the same prob! I'm not sure what is what, and where to file bug for each
[21:00] <tcole> it's really a blanket for all the backend stuff for all the services
[21:00] <BUGabundo> dobey: they say "that DOS thingy"
[21:00] <sladen> tcole: is ubunet the project?
[21:00]  * BUGabundo we need a *good* FAQ
[21:00] <dobey> BUGabundo: mostly i just see people say 'microsoft' when referring to any product of theirs
[21:00] <Chipaca> sladen: ubunet was the "we need to start working on this, call it something until the Name is Decided"
[21:00] <dobey> BUGabundo: FAQs don't help because nobody actually reads them.
[21:01] <sladen> BUGabundo: yeah, it's been 2.5 weeks, so that's what I'm trying to undertake in a roundabout way.  Which is why I'm in here asking dumb(tm) questions
[21:01] <dobey> sladen: ubuntuone is the project. it is the parent project for all the related projects
[21:01] <BUGabundo> or Windows! anything is windows... oh and Internet is IE.... just lan or any app using the "internet" is not net! :\\
[21:01] <dobey> sladen: ie, http://launchpad.net/ubuntuone
[21:01] <BUGabundo> dobey: 3rd thing I read....
[21:01] <BUGabundo> 1st is site look, 2nd about, 3rd FAQ
[21:02] <dobey> BUGabundo: well, yes. you. but 1/6bln isn't very much :)
[21:02] <BUGabundo> sladen: no question is dumb... only answers
[21:02] <BUGabundo> dobey: ehehehh
[21:03] <dobey> brb, need to reboot... hal has gone crazy again and won't open the pod bay doors
[21:03] <sladen> dobey: tcole: so (although it does contradict the statement above), 'ubunet' is what I would have to replicate if I wished to use a completely Free stack
[21:03] <BUGabundo> mieszkoslusarczyk: Pity there is no kde client for ubuntuone.
[21:03] <BUGabundo> mieszkoslusarczyk: But I think It'll be easier to create one for ubuntuone;)
[21:04] <sladen> dobey: tcole: eg. everything that is internal/proprietary is contained with the perimeter of 'ubunet'
[21:05] <sladen> dobey: tcole: or perhaps another way to phrase that.  What is the command that is run to start a daemon listening for incoming $somthing requests
[21:05] <tcole> sladen: ubunet corresponds pretty well to the proprietary bits
[21:06] <tcole> in terms of LP projects, ubuntuone is the umbrella project, with ubunet, ubuntuone-client and ubuntuone-storage-protocol as subprojects
[21:06] <sladen> BUGabundo: if I understand it, There is _not_ a GNOME client for 'storage' (hammertime?), there is a _Nautilus_ client
[21:07] <tcole> no, not really
[21:07] <sladen> BUGabundo: and there could be a fuse client, etc?
[21:07] <tcole> the client is just a user daemon which watches a folder
[21:07] <tcole> it exposes a dbus interface which a nautilus extension interacts with
[21:07] <tcole> but you don't need to run nautilus to use it
[21:07] <tcole> (there are some Gnome dependencies like gnome-keyring at the moment though)
[21:08] <tcole> we actually did implement a fuse client
[21:08] <tcole> it was a disaster
[21:08] <BUGabundo> tcole: aah
[21:08] <BUGabundo> why ?
[21:08] <sladen> tcole: that's good to know, it demonstrates it's not quite single-implemtnation
[21:08] <tcole> several different reasons, but performance and stability
[21:08] <tcole> sladen: in addition to the syncdaemon, we do also ship a very simple/stupid commandline client
[21:09] <sladen> which bit(s) in the current stack was "the fuse client" equivalent to?
[21:09] <tcole> sladen: which works a bit differently than the daemon
[21:09] <tcole> the syncdaemon replaced the fuse client
[21:09] <sladen> tcole: funky, hadn't spotted that (I'm trying to analyse this without actually being able to use it---I can't agree to the T&C for the beta)
[21:10] <tcole> anyway, the two clients we currently ship are the syncdaemon and u1sync
[21:10] <dobey> i don't know that i would call syncdaemon and fuse filesystem equivilent
[21:10] <tcole> sladen: you should be able to grab the packages/source from the ubuntuone-client project without worrying about the beta T&C
[21:10] <sladen> did it have a name at the time it existed/was a disaster
[21:10] <tcole> sladen: those bits are simply AGPL, IIRC
[21:10] <tcole> sladen: storagefs
[21:10] <sladen> tcole: yeah, those bits are fine/clean/etc
[21:11] <tcole> sladen: well, ubuntuone-storagefs; we didn't want to pollute the fs name namespace
[21:11] <tcole> sladen: but we just called it "storagefs"
[21:11] <tcole> sladen: you can tell we are very creative with names :)
[21:12] <sladen> the generic names (to me with my developer mind) make it quite hard to know what the scope is
[21:12] <BUGabundo> 4 more invites sent! I'm rolling tonight
[21:12] <sladen> it's like trying to hammer home "Ubuntu 9.10"... people don't, they refer to Karmic
[21:12] <dobey> the scope of a storagefs is not contacts... seems pretty simple to me :) storage == storage
[21:12]  * BUGabundo calls 8.10 ibex... interpid is just too long
[21:13] <sladen> dobey: so it's actually  u1-plugin-storage  and u1-plugin-storage-nautilus ?
[21:13] <dobey> we don't have plug-ins no
[21:14] <dobey> well the nautilus bits are a nautilus extension, so that's a plug-in to nautilus
[21:14] <sladen> stoage is an /optional/ addition to the $something API/database/wire setup?
[21:14] <dobey> storage is a service which you may optionally subscribe to
[21:15] <sladen> 'storage' is a service which presents a DBus API on one side, and which does magic $something on the other?
[21:15] <dobey> there's not really any other api/db/wire bits at the moment
[21:15] <dobey> sladen: it's not magic. it uses ubuntuone-storage-protocol which is AGPLv3
[21:16] <dobey> sladen: it uses google protocol buffers to implement the wire protocol for storage
[21:16] <sladen> woohoo!
[21:16] <sladen> let me go and research what those are
[21:17] <tcole> the dbus API is just for controlling the syncdaemon
[21:17] <tcole> the syncdaemon itself is the actual client
[21:17] <tcole> and of course u1sync is the other client we ship
[21:17] <BUGabundo> dobey: optionally? but rigt now U1 is just that: storage
[21:17] <tcole> that will change
[21:17] <dobey> BUGabundo: yes, and it is optional
[21:18] <tcole> I mean, we will have more than just storage
[21:18] <dobey> BUGabundo: you are in no way obligated to subscribe to the storage service
[21:18] <BUGabundo> google protocol buffers ? 1st time I heard that
[21:18] <BUGabundo> tcole: I know that! if you read a bit back, I said im waiting on the rest!
[21:18] <sladen> http://code.google.com/apis/protocolbuffers/docs/overview.html  <-- for anyone listening to the scroll
[21:18] <BUGabundo> dobey: so currently what would I have wihtout storage?
[21:19] <dobey> BUGabundo: an account that doesn't do anything for you :)
[21:19] <BUGabundo> ahahaha
[21:19] <dobey> BUGabundo: assuming you log in to ubuntuone.com anyway
[21:19] <BUGabundo> yeah that's what I though
[21:19] <BUGabundo> tcole: dobey so what is the timeframe for the so mentioned changes?
[21:19] <tcole> sladen: something we need to do soon is document the *semantics* of the protocol buffer messages; at present you pretty much have to look at one of the existing open source clients to see that
[21:20] <dobey> BUGabundo: but it's still entirely optional, whether or not it actually provides any utility to you :)
[21:20] <BUGabundo> dobey: :)
[21:21] <sladen> tcole: yeah, we're getting to the stage where I can go and read the code effectively without banging my head against a wall wanting a high-level overview
[21:21] <tcole> I'd probably say that u1sync is easier to understand than syncdaemon
[21:21] <tcole> though I'm a little nervous saying that
[21:22] <tcole> because u1sync is something I basically threw together over a weekend
[21:22] <tcole> not great code
[21:23] <sladen> dobey: tcole: so the wire-protocol is application specific Google protocol serialisations updating an object database using REST over HTTPS?
[21:23] <tcole> minus the REST part
[21:23] <sladen> tcole: next time, write two demo clients, it's solve 95% of the confusion ;-)
[21:24] <BUGabundo> LOL
[21:24] <sladen> tcole: since you'll be forced to give them different names otherwise they both won't compile!
[21:24] <tcole> in all seriousness, I may do more, time permitting
[21:24] <tcole> but not for that reason
[21:25] <sladen> joking aside, it's not REST.  Are the references to REST that is is RESTful in style?
[21:25] <sladen> tcole: u1sync is the command lline tool (correct)
[21:25] <sladen> ?
[21:26] <tcole> correct
[21:26] <tcole> I'm not sure where the REST references are coming from
[21:26] <tcole> the storage protocol is fairly stateful
[21:27] <tcole> now
[21:27] <tcole> we do have a "structured storage" thing in progress
[21:27] <dobey> what REST references?
[21:27] <tcole> which is based on CouchDB
[21:27] <tcole> and that does do RESTy things
[21:27] <tcole> but that is distinct from "file storage"
[21:27] <tcole> which is what we have out there now
[21:30] <sladen> dobey: no idea, I've come across them somewhere.
[21:30] <sladen> dobey: probably Chinese whispers
[21:31] <sladen> and CoudchDB is this thing that requires installing 45MB of erlang
[21:31] <tcole> yep
[21:31] <tcole> needless to say that didn't fly very well with the distro folks, who are rather scarce for space on the CD :)
[21:31] <tcole> so we are working on fixing that whole 45MB of erlang part if we can
[21:32] <tcole> I am not closely involved with that part of things though
[21:34] <sladen> tcole: CouchDB is talked to over a JSON/HTTP interface.  What is it that is doing the talking?
[21:35] <tcole> I think it's a CouchDB running locally
[21:35] <sladen> I presume there's an instance of CouchDB running (once?) per machine and once again one the server end
[21:35] <tcole> but I don't work on that service right now, and it hasn't been released yet
[21:35] <tcole> something along those lines
[21:36] <sladen> confused.  is CouchDB actually in use at this point in time?
[21:36] <dobey> not in ubuntuone yet
[21:36] <sladen> if it's not, I can completely ignore as it doesn't reflect what's there at the moment, only vague future vapourware
[21:36] <dobey> and it will be couchdb-per-user
[21:42] <BUGabundo> ok now you guys went to a too geeky point
[21:42] <BUGabundo> I can't keep up
[21:43] <kklimonda> :)
[21:50] <tcole> sladen: right, vapourware and lies :)
[21:53] <dobey> heh
[21:56] <Chipaca> sladen: u1sdtool is also the command line tool
[21:56] <Chipaca> sladen: in fact, I wouldn't call u1sync the commandline tool :)
[21:56] <tcole> u1sdtool is a CLI way to interact with syncdaemon via dbus
[21:56] <tcole> it is a commandline tool
[21:56] <Chipaca> yes
[21:56] <tcole> but it is not a commandline client
[21:56] <tcole> syncdaemon and u1sync are the two clients
[21:56] <Chipaca> right
[21:57] <Chipaca> sorry if I read the wrong half of the conversation :)
[22:01] <sladen> u1sync is the commandline sync client;  u1sdtool is the commandline control interface.  syncdaemon is the daemon?
[22:01] <sladen> which is the nautilus plugin client?
[22:02] <tcole> syncdaemon doesn't have anything to do with nautilus
[22:02] <tcole> although there is a nautilus extension which can talk to it
[22:02] <sladen> which is the nautilus _extension_ that can talk to syncdaemon
[22:02] <tcole> u1sync is a minimal commandline client, syncdaemon is a full-featured client which runs as a background daemon
[22:03] <sladen> oh
[22:03] <sladen> clients of *what*?
[22:03] <tcole> u1sdtool is a commandline control interface for syncdaemon, there is also a gnome panel applet which controls syncdaemon, as well as a nautilus extension
[22:03] <tcole> the storage service
[22:03] <tcole> file storage service
[22:03] <BUGabundo> tcole: aren't you tired of exlaing it over and over?
[22:03] <BUGabundo> write a FAQ instead
[22:03] <BUGabundo> eheh
[22:03] <sladen> BUGabundo: I'm trying.
[22:04] <tcole> sladen's already doing that, which is why he's asking me
[22:05] <BUGabundo> ahhhhhhhhhhhhh
[22:05] <BUGabundo> great
[22:05] <tcole> not that I have an objection to writing a FAQ myself, but seeing as he's already started
[22:05] <tcole> I won't steal his thunder :)
[22:06] <sladen> BUGabundo: since that's the only way myself and other people are going to understand "it".  Understanding "it" (and being able to effectively talk and point and the specific areas) is hopefully the stepping stone to enabling proper discussion about any wider issues
[22:06] <BUGabundo> humm
[22:06] <BUGabundo> this will be a _nice_ FAQ long
[22:06] <BUGabundo> from a POV of a user
[22:06] <BUGabundo> lots of user assumptions
[22:10] <sladen> so u1tool == ncftp and syncdaemon == rsync.  Both connect straight out to   someserver.ubuntuone.com  without passing Go! and without collecting 200 GBP
[22:10] <tcole> hm, not really quite
[22:10] <tcole> u1sync is a little bit like s3sync
[22:10] <tcole> syncdaemon is like the dropbox daemon
[22:11] <tcole> they both connect to (right now) fs-1.ubuntuone.com
[22:11] <tcole> and speak the protocol defined by the stuff in the ubuntuone-storage-protocol package
[22:12] <tcole> u1sdtool, the gnome panel applet, and the nautilus extension are just control interfaces for syncdaemon
[22:12] <tcole> does that make sense?
[22:13] <tcole> will you be putting the FAQ on the Ubuntu wiki?
[22:13] <tcole> we have a page here already which is rather unenlightening -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne
[22:13] <sladen> http://s3.amazonaws.com/ServEdge_pub/s3sync/README.txt  <-- for anyone following the scroll
[22:14] <tcole> u1sync is a little different to s3sync in several respects, one of them is that you have a separate "init" step, a bit like "bzr init" or something
[22:14] <tcole> basically associating a local directory with some directory tree on the server
[22:14] <tcole> after which u1sync in that directory does a sync without needing any arguments
[22:14] <sladen> and that relationship is recorded by a hidden file/uuid linking those?
[22:15] <tcole> yep
[22:15] <sladen> cunning guess.  What's the name of this file?
[22:15] <tcole> well, it's a directory
[22:15] <tcole> .ubuntuone-sync
[22:15] <sladen> so the directory is called  12341234-1234-1234-a-ba-234?
[22:16] <tcole> the directory has a number of individual files under it
[22:16] <tcole> which contain things like the root UUID, the path, and so on, of the subtree you are mirroring
[22:16] <sladen> So at the moment, a user ends up with   ~/Desktop/Ubuntu One/{myfile{1,2,3},.ubuntu-sync/*}
[22:17] <tcole> no, the syncdaemon operates very differently
[22:17] <tcole> u1sync is basically for "checking out" a copy of your files in a place separate from where the syncdaemon works (or would work -- you can opt not to use it)
[22:17] <sladen> so that _one_ instance of  '.ubuntuone-sync/'  lives at  ~/.ubuntuone-sync/
[22:17] <BUGabundo> tcole: dobey: so what is the timeline for the so called new _features_ other then storage?
[22:17] <tcole> nope
[22:17] <dobey> BUGabundo: when they're ready. :)
[22:17] <BUGabundo> come on!!
[22:18] <sladen> BUGabundo: shhhh.
[22:18] <tcole> u1sync puts .ubuntuone-sync in a the directory you initialized for use with it
[22:18] <BUGabundo> don't do that to me again
[22:18] <dobey> BUGabundo: but we are working on them to get stuff deployed asap, because there are things we want working in karmic
[22:18] <tcole> we don't really like to go into details about unreleased stuff becuase it confuses people (as sladen rightly pointed out)
[22:18] <dobey> u1sync behaves sort of like a vcs in respect to how it functions
[22:18] <tcole> and also until it's actually released and people have the client source code it's all lies anyway :)
[22:18] <BUGabundo> tcole: I can't confuse me
[22:18] <BUGabundo> AHAHAH
[22:19] <BUGabundo> I'm an alpha tester
[22:19] <tcole> sladen: .ubuntuone-sync is a lot like the .bzr directory that bzr creates in a checked-out tree
[22:19] <BUGabundo> I run cutting edge on anything, and am more the used to stuff changing without notice
[22:19] <tcole> sladen: the syncdaemon works very differently, and keeps all its metadata under ~/.cache/ubuntuone
[22:20] <sladen> so stuff checked out with u1sync is not compatible with syncdaemon  (I would instead have to use u1sdtool to direct syncdaemon to undertake the action(s))
[22:21]  * BUGabundo is being ignored ....
[22:21] <tcole> sladen: that's the simple version yes
[22:21] <sladen> u1sync is roughly   bzr init || bzr clone || bzr push
[22:22] <sladen> s/||/xor/
[22:22] <tcole> sladen: kind of
[22:23] <sladen> BUGabundo: okay, I'll ask you a couple of question as you've got more hands on experience than me
[22:23] <sladen> BUGabundo: can you describe what "Ubuntu One" is in less than 10 words
[22:23] <tcole> BUGabundo: I'm trying not to ignore anyone, but I'm not sure what else to say and I have limited brain
[22:23] <sladen> BUGabundo: because I can't, yet
[22:24] <BUGabundo> ok sladen
[22:24] <tcole> best I can do: Ubuntu One is online services. Just file storage to start.
[22:24] <tcole> (10 words)
[22:24] <dobey> sladen: i can, but i don't think you'll accept my ingenuity with it :)
[22:25] <BUGabundo> U1 is a Cloud implementation, providing right now Free and Paid Online Storage, to Ubuntu GNU/Linux Distro
[22:25] <tcole> I think maybe cloud is misleading
[22:25] <BUGabundo> dobey: please tell us
[22:25] <kklimonda> BUGabundo: it's at least 14 words ;)
[22:25] <dobey> cloud is a silly buzzword
[22:25] <tcole> because then people start imagining we're offering an EC2 clone or something
[22:25] <dobey> BUGabundo: 1 word: awesome
[22:25] <sladen> BUGabundo: what's a cloud?
[22:25] <dobey> :)
[22:25] <tcole> (which I keep getting asked about!)
[22:25] <BUGabundo> dobey: I know. that's why I used it
[22:25] <BUGabundo> its like Web 2.0 duh
[22:25] <dobey> sladen: the giant grey things hovering over my city at the moment
[22:26] <BUGabundo> dobey: LOL
[22:26] <BUGabundo> sladen: providing web services for data
[22:26] <tcole> hm
[22:26] <sladen> dobey: duded, I didn't realise those bits had names, I thought it was all just "One Sky" ;-)
[22:26] <dobey> cloud has nothing to do with services
[22:26] <tcole> have we ever said anything about web services?
[22:26] <tcole> in this entire discussion?
[22:26] <dobey> cloud is just a stupid term that means "internet"
[22:27] <BUGabundo> sladen: dobey: isn't that on cities: SM>OG?
[22:27] <BUGabundo> *SMOG
[22:27] <tcole> well, maybe "abstracted server farm over the internet"
[22:27] <tcole> but a lot of people do just mean "vaguely internet somehow" by it
[22:27] <dobey> BUGabundo: smog doesn't produce rain. it just produces bad air
[22:27] <BUGabundo> dobey: Cloud: is Remote... no need for internet
[22:27] <tcole> actually smog particles can nucleate raindrops
[22:27] <kklimonda> tcole: do they breed new servers on this farm? ;)
[22:28] <tcole> sure
[22:28] <tcole> we have an entire division at Canonical dedicated to server husbandry
[22:28] <sladen> I'm hoping it's a "remote-access secure object storage database"
[22:29] <sladen> I'm hoping it's a "remote-access secure object storage database over Google buffers"
[22:29] <tcole> what we currently offer is file-based rather than object-based
[22:29] <tcole> at least as an abstraction
[22:29] <sladen> anyway.  I don't think anyway succedded.  nil point all around
[22:29] <tcole> the implementation behind the scenes looks a bit different
[22:30] <BUGabundo> tcole: come on... raise the curfue a bit, and let me know what you guys have in store
[22:30] <sladen> tcole: ooooh.  So the far end is nothing more than an directory and you could run the rest over FTP, or WebDav?
[22:30] <sladen> BUGabundo: I doubt they know.
[22:30] <BUGabundo> FF intregration? mail intregration (does anyone need that?), contacts ?
[22:30] <tcole> sladen: it's (sadly?) more complicated than that by far
[22:31] <tcole> sladen: but we have discussed the possibility of offering a WebDAV view into the storage
[22:31] <sladen> tcole: it's more complicated because it's versioned?
[22:31] <kklimonda> BUGabundo: first we need a decent mail client ;}
[22:31] <sladen> tcole: or because it's abstracted
[22:31] <sladen> tcole: or because it's structured?
[22:31] <tcole> versioning will be an issue eventually
[22:32] <tcole> but that's not something we expose right now
[22:32] <sladen> what makes (at this point in time) it more complicated than an FTP directory?
[22:32] <BUGabundo> sladen: Versinaged!!?!!?!?!?!
[22:32] <tcole> principally the sharing stuff
[22:32] <BUGabundo> KEYWORD alert!
[22:32] <dobey> BUGabundo: relax man
[22:32] <BUGabundo> damn ... "eventually"
[22:33] <BUGabundo> dobey: :))
[22:34] <sladen> tcole: with regard to the platform only (not any storage/syncdaemons running over the top), what makes the platform more complicate than an FTP directory with ACLs
[22:34] <tcole> from whose point of view?
[22:34] <tcole> I guess one major difference is push notifications of changes
[22:35] <tcole> when a client connects, you are given the UUID of the root node of your storage, as well as the roots of any shares available to you
[22:35] <sladen> tcole: so at the start of the session, I login, subscribe to a bunch of stuff, and then get proactively poked when something gets updated (which if there is only one user accessing at a time, means never)
[22:35] <tcole> yes, that's about right
[22:36] <tcole> minus the subscription part
[22:36] <tcole> you get poked about anything you have access to
[22:36] <sladen> ahhhh
[22:36] <BUGabundo> talking about UUIDs
[22:36] <BUGabundo> when are the Computer names getting improved?
[22:37] <sladen> so I can DOS the system just by offering 10 million public shares and writing a string of 1-byte updates that than get amplified and PUSHed to every single connected user?
[22:37] <BUGabundo> LOLOL
[22:37] <BUGabundo> sladen: I'm very close to that
[22:38] <BUGabundo> I have a shared folder with an HUGE amount of users
[22:38] <dobey> BUGabundo: nowhere near 10 million. you probably have ~100
[22:38] <BUGabundo> tcole: dobey: care to run a count on the DB on that folder?
[22:38] <BUGabundo> I'm to lazy to count them by hand
[22:38] <dobey> we don't have access to the db
[22:38] <BUGabundo> you don't?
[22:38] <sladen> BUGabundo: don't try it, it's probably against the T&C.  And remember, you agreed to cover all costs related to your use, or misuse of the server when you subscribed
[22:38] <BUGabundo> so how does?
[22:38] <BUGabundo> sladen: I already did
[22:38] <BUGabundo> U1 died on me
[22:38] <BUGabundo> had to user Web to fix it
[22:39] <BUGabundo> let me put a 1GiB file on that folder
[22:39] <BUGabundo> LOL
[22:39] <sladen> BUGabundo: the local syncdaemon client died?  Or the remote FTP^W ubunet instance?
[22:39] <dobey> sladen: well you probably can DOS that way, but you will also probably very quickly get banned as well. just the same as if i constantly sent 1 byte e-mails to 10 million users through your smtp relay
[22:39] <BUGabundo> :~/Ubuntu One/My Files/bla$ touch dobey_see_this.txt
[22:40] <dobey> sladen: the server didn't die
[22:40] <BUGabundo> humm can't connect
[22:40] <BUGabundo> damn
[22:40] <BUGabundo> you guys are blocking me alread :))
[22:40] <tcole> sladen: only the users who are have accepted the shares will get notifications
[22:40] <dobey> at least, i don't think it died
[22:40] <sladen> BUGabundo: not yet
[22:40] <BUGabundo> restarting
[22:41] <BUGabundo> humm it won't open
[22:41] <BUGabundo> LOLOL
[22:41] <BUGabundo> how can I start it from CLI and debug this further?
[22:41] <tcole> anywa, regarding computer names
[22:41] <sladen> tcole: so you can offer/invite shares to anyway, but they do ultimately have to accept/subscribe
[22:41] <tcole> sladen: yes
[22:41] <sladen> tcole: if they don't do that subscription at login, when does it happen
[22:41] <tcole> that process happens via email right now
[22:42] <tcole> you get an email, click on the link, accept the share or no
[22:42] <tcole> eventually the plan is to have gnome UI for that as well
[22:42] <tcole> and probably some kind of (non-intrusive) notification setup
[22:42] <dobey> yeah, the server isn't down afaict
[22:42] <tcole> regarding computer names, there are two pieces to it
[22:43] <dobey> BUGabundo: you can just look at the logs in ~/.cache/ubuntuone/log/
[22:43] <tcole> one, the clients currently do not communicate the computer name to the server when registering
[22:43] <BUGabundo> dobey: and how can I start it ?
[22:44] <sladen> does syncdaemon communicate the cookie (delivered in the email) to ubunet, or does Firefox communicate the cookie (delivered by email) to the ubunet webservice by normal HTTP request?
[22:44] <tcole> and I think the second thing is for the server to put the hostname in the description field for the token rather than a UUID
[22:44] <tcole> sladen: that part is all HTTP
[22:44] <dobey> BUGabundo: start what? the logs already have data. getting the same log info over and over again isn't going to actually give you any more data... just take up more bytes on the disk :)
[22:44] <BUGabundo> too many logs for me
[22:44] <tcole> sladen: there are facilities to list and accept/decline shares via the protocol though
[22:44] <tcole> sladen: you can use them via u1sdtool or even u1sync
[22:44] <dobey> BUGabundo: syncdaemon.log is probably what you care about
[22:44] <BUGabundo> oh its just dates
[22:44] <tcole> though I'm not sure I've added accepting/declining to u1sync yet
[22:45] <BUGabundo> its empty
[22:45] <BUGabundo> all of them are
[22:45] <BUGabundo> zero byts
[22:45] <BUGabundo> except oauth-login.log
[22:45] <dobey> tcole: for computer names, i think we can already handle it on the server (and i thought the client was changed at the same time to send it, but perhaps it wasn't)
[22:46] <tcole> the last I checked, the clients were still only sending UUIDs
[22:46] <dobey> BUGabundo: eh? what does running ubuntuone-syncdaemon say then?
[22:46] <BUGabundo> $ ubuntuone-syncdaemon
[22:46] <BUGabundo> Traceback (most recent call last):
[22:46] <BUGabundo>   File "/usr/bin/ubuntuone-syncdaemon", line 33, in <module>
[22:46] <BUGabundo>     from canonical.ubuntuone.storage.syncdaemon import dbus_interface
[22:46] <BUGabundo>   File "/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/canonical/ubuntuone/storage/syncdaemon/dbus_interface.py", line 21, in <module>
[22:46] <BUGabundo>     from canonical.ubuntuone.storage.syncdaemon.event_queue import EVENTS
[22:46] <BUGabundo>   File "/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/canonical/ubuntuone/storage/syncdaemon/event_queue.py", line 100, in <module>
[22:46] <BUGabundo>     evtcodes.IN_CLOSE_WRITE: 'FS_FILE_CLOSE_WRITE',
[22:46] <BUGabundo> AttributeError: type object 'EventsCodes' has no attribute 'IN_CLOSE_WRITE'
[22:46] <tcole> oh, FFFFFUUUUU
[22:46] <BUGabundo> humm should have pastebin that
[22:46] <dobey> tcole: well, actually the client doesn't send anything for that. it's just the oauth access token wheich we gte from the server anyway
[22:46] <tcole> I just got that
[22:46] <dobey> BUGabundo: oh that.
[22:46] <tcole> after upgrading
[22:46] <tcole> and syncdaemon doesn't start
[22:47] <BUGabundo> tcole: yep
[22:47] <dobey> BUGabundo: there is an update in the works (i think it's in nightlies already)
[22:47] <kklimonda> weird..
[22:47] <dobey> it's because pyinotify broke stuff in 0.8 which is now in karmic
[22:47] <BUGabundo> can/should I downgrade?
[22:47] <BUGabundo> I would like to DOS ^W use U1 again
[22:47] <tcole> I'm afraid I need to head out for a little bit
[22:47] <dobey> you can downgrade pyinotify maybe
[22:48] <dobey> or just install the r37 package from the nightlies
[22:48] <sladen> tcole: ta for now
[22:48] <tcole> sladen: where's the FAQ going again, out of curiosity?
[22:48] <dobey> err
[22:48] <dobey> r38 i mean
[22:48] <sladen> tcole: oh, somewhere on wiki.ubuntu.com
[22:49] <tcole> ok, cool
[22:49] <sladen> tcole: it's currently in a local copy of emacs
[22:49]  * tcole nods
[22:49] <sladen> tcole: or rather it isn't.  My shorthand notes are
[22:49] <sladen> thekorn: and some jottings in Inkscape
[22:50] <BUGabundo> dobey: lp branch link please
[22:50] <BUGabundo> I'll get trunk
[22:50] <dobey> lp:ubuntuone-client
[22:50] <tcole> sladen: ok, be sure to link it from the UbuntuOne page on the wiki when you put it up
[22:50] <sladen> tcole: just as soon as ubuntuone.com is sure to link to ubuntu.com
[22:51] <tcole> ?
[22:51] <sladen> (I support "read the FAQ ---> here" would kind of force that ;-)
[22:51] <sladen> s/support/suppose/
[22:51] <BUGabundo> dobey: branching now
[22:52] <tcole> that came up actually
[22:52] <BUGabundo> dobey:  sudo python setup.py install next?
[22:52] <tcole> we're going to be making some changes so that there are clearer links to Ubuntu proper generally
[22:52] <tcole> as far as our web presence goes
[22:52] <sladen> tcole: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubunet/+bug/376130 "Webservice does not link to Ubuntu.com"
[22:53]  * tcole nods
[22:53] <dobey> BUGabundo: i don't know that installing into your system from trunk would be a particularly wise idea, no
[22:54] <dobey> BUGabundo: and in any case, you need to do ./setup.py build first
[22:54] <BUGabundo> $ ./setup.py
[22:54] <BUGabundo> usage: setup.py [global_opts] cmd1 [cmd1_opts] [cmd2 [cmd2_opts] ...]
[22:54] <BUGabundo> error: no commands supplied
[22:55] <BUGabundo> error: invalid command 'first'
[22:55] <BUGabundo> LOLOL
[22:55] <BUGabundo> first is not  the command
[22:55] <BUGabundo> ehjehe
[22:55] <BUGabundo> __main__.NotFoundError: You need icontool to generate the icons for Ubuntu One.
[22:55] <BUGabundo>   File "./setup.py", line 209, in <module>
[22:55] <dobey> and you need to install icontool :)
[22:55] <dobey> it's in the ubuntu one beta ppa
[22:56] <tcole> I depart now
[22:56] <tcole> bbl
[22:56] <sladen> BUGabundo: I tend to find that if you stick to building packaged versioned, it's alot easier to hop around test versions, to know that any mess has been cleanly installed and to fetch new depends when they are introducted/revved
[22:56] <dobey> likewise, i'm out as well
[22:57] <BUGabundo> Get:1 https://private-ppa.launchpad.net jaunty/main icontool 0.1.0-0 [10.3kB]
[22:57] <BUGabundo> ohh
[22:57] <sladen> tcole: dobey: special appreciations to both of you for your time
[22:57] <BUGabundo> don't leave me just yet
[22:57] <BUGabundo> generating icons
[22:57] <BUGabundo> sh: inkscape: not found
[22:57] <sladen> BUGabundo: sudo apt-get builddep $thingy
[22:58] <sladen> BUGabundo: otherwise  sudo apt-get install inkscape
[22:58] <BUGabundo> ~$ sudo apt-get build-dep ubuntuone-client
[22:59] <BUGabundo> The following NEW packages will be installed:
[22:59] <BUGabundo>   inkscape libwmf-bin python-all python-all-dev python-dev python-lxml python-renderpm python-reportlab  python-reportlab-accel python-uniconvertor python2.5 python2.5-dev python2.6-dev
[22:59] <BUGabundo> $ ubuntuone-syncdaemon
[22:59] <BUGabundo> Traceback (most recent call last):  File "/usr/local/bin/ubuntuone-syncdaemon", line 33, in <module>
[22:59] <BUGabundo> so trunk doesn't fix it for me
[23:12] <tcole> I'm back for a minute
[23:12] <tcole> that's distressing
[23:13] <tcole> Karmic-specific breakage as far as I can tell, but we need to get it sorted out
[23:13] <tcole> BUGabundo: ping
[23:13] <BUGabundo> pong
[23:13] <tcole> hmm
[23:13] <BUGabundo> tcole: ok. I'll wait for tomorows batch of updates
[23:13] <tcole> /usr/*local*/bin/ubuntuone-syncdaemon?
[23:14] <tcole> why do you have a syncdaemon in /usr/local?
[23:14] <BUGabundo> humm python setup ?
[23:14] <tcole> ah
[23:14] <tcole> I think what dobey meant was for you to build the .debs install thouse
[23:14] <BUGabundo> installing from trunk
[23:14] <tcole> not sure he explained that well
[23:14] <BUGabundo> to get R38
[23:14] <tcole> yes, you can do that from trunk
[23:15] <BUGabundo> he didn'ti do this all the time with gwibber
[23:15] <BUGabundo> alias gwibberbzr='cd /tmp/;bzr branch lp:gwibber;cd gwibber; sudo python setup.py install'
[23:15] <tcole> hm
[23:15] <tcole> well, it is going to be a problem that you have a version of the client in /usr and a version in /usr/local
[23:15] <tcole> I think what's happening here is that you're getting a mixture
[23:16] <BUGabundo> let me purge it all
[23:16] <tcole> most likely (with the python changes in Karmic particularly), you're getting the syncdaemon from /usr/local/bin and the libraries from /usr/lib
[23:16] <BUGabundo> $ sudo apt-get remove --purge ubuntuone-*
[23:16] <BUGabundo> Note, selecting ubuntuone-ppa-beta for regex 'ubuntuone-*'
[23:17] <BUGabundo> there goes the PPA info
[23:17] <BUGabundo> lol
[23:22] <sladen> BUGabundo: what's gwibber?
[23:23] <tcole> gwibber is a Gnome twitter client thingy
[23:23] <BUGabundo> tcole: FAIL
[23:23] <BUGabundo> Gwibber is Social Network and µblog client
[23:23] <tcole> BUGabundo: I wouldn't expect it to work now that you've purged ubuntuone-client-protocol....
[23:24] <BUGabundo> it support many more services then just twitter
[23:24] <BUGabundo> which is Close Source btw
[23:24] <BUGabundo> tcole: I doesn't
[23:24] <tcole> isn't that what apt-get remove --purge ubuntuone-* did?
[23:24] <BUGabundo> $ ubuntuone-syncdaemon
[23:24] <BUGabundo> Traceback (most recent call last):
[23:24] <BUGabundo>   File "/usr/local/bin/ubuntuone-syncdaemon", line 32, in <module>
[23:24] <BUGabundo>     from canonical.ubuntuone.storage.syncdaemon import logger
[23:24] <BUGabundo> ImportError: No module named canonical.ubuntuone.storage.syncdaemon
[23:24] <BUGabundo> s/I/it/
[23:24] <tcole> yeah... python doesn't look in /usr/local most of the time
[23:25] <tcole> what I had meant for you to do was to purge the copy from /usr/local
[23:25] <tcole> install the regular packages
[23:26] <dobey> or run it from the tree
[23:26] <tcole> and then use debuild to build a new client package and install that
[23:26]  * tcole finishes doing just that
[23:26] <BUGabundo> wait
[23:26] <BUGabundo> calm down
[23:26] <tcole> Traceback (most recent call last):
[23:26] <tcole>   File "/usr/bin/ubuntuone-syncdaemon", line 36, in <module>
[23:26] <tcole>     from configglue import configglue
[23:26] <tcole> ImportError: No module named configglue
[23:26] <tcole> argh
[23:26] <tcole> ...dobey, am I the only developer on Karmic right now?
[23:26] <BUGabundo> ahaha
[23:27] <BUGabundo> LOLOLOL
[23:27] <sladen> cat ubuntuone-storage-protocol/README   ho ho ho
[23:27] <dobey> tcole: i have karmic on my laptop
[23:27] <dobey> tcole: i don't know why you're missing configglue though
[23:27] <BUGabundo> tcole: what do I need to rm -rf from /usr/local/ ?
[23:27] <tcole> sladen: oh my.  I'm glad not personally responsible for that one
[23:28] <tcole> BUGabundo: hm, do a find /usr/local -name '*ubuntuone*'
[23:28] <tcole> BUGabundo: as long as that doesn't turn up anything that obviously shouldn't be deleted, do:
[23:29] <BUGabundo> tcole: $ find /usr/local -name '*ubuntuone*' | pastebinit  http://paste.ubuntu.com/189287/
[23:29] <tcole> find /usr/local -name '*ubuntuone*' -exec rm -rf {} \;
[23:29] <tcole> ok, that should all go
[23:29] <BUGabundo> find: `/usr/local/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/canonical/ubuntuone': No such file or directory
[23:29] <tcole> also nuke /usr/local/bin/u1sync and /usr/local/bin/u1sdtool
[23:30] <tcole> oh, right, I'm an idiot
[23:30] <tcole> find is doing preorder traversal
[23:30] <BUGabundo> done
[23:30] <tcole> and rm -r is removing stuff before it gets to it
[23:30] <tcole> anyway, now try installing the client package bits again
[23:30] <BUGabundo> humm ?
[23:31] <BUGabundo> trunk and then build?
[23:31] <tcole> the actual PPA packages
[23:31] <BUGabundo> or from PPA?
[23:31] <BUGabundo> ok
[23:31] <dobey> well install ubuntuone-storage-protocol from PPA
[23:31] <BUGabundo> let me see if I still have them
[23:31] <dobey> and then run the syncdaemon from the source tree
[23:31] <dobey> like "PYTHONPATH=`pwd` ./bin/ubuntuone-syncdaemon'
[23:31] <BUGabundo> yeah, as I though
[23:31] <dobey> s/'$/"/
[23:31] <BUGabundo> the PPA info was removed by --purge
[23:32] <tcole> sladen: regarding the protocol README, what would be good to put there?  I'm thinking a brief overview of the protocol at least
[23:32] <dobey> yes of course
[23:32] <dobey> tcole: probably info about building/installing it, and what it is
[23:32] <BUGabundo> so I need to go to the web site and install again?
[23:32] <dobey> that's what tends to go in a README anyway
[23:32] <BUGabundo> sladen: want to do a wiki on installing from trunk too ?
[23:32] <dobey> BUGabundo: well you need to add the PPA again
[23:32] <dobey> BUGabundo: you can do via the web page, or the launchpad ppa web page
[23:33] <tcole> yeah, let me do a branch to fix that README, it's embarassing
[23:33] <BUGabundo> adding PPA now
[23:34] <BUGabundo> still getting jaunty deb
[23:34] <BUGabundo> when will karmic ones be released?
[23:34] <BUGabundo> oh wait I asked that just this week
[23:34] <BUGabundo> nvm then
[23:34] <BUGabundo> $ sudo aptitude install ubuntuone-storage-protocol
[23:34] <BUGabundo> done
[23:34] <BUGabundo> what's next dobey?
[23:35] <tcole> next I'd go to the trunk directory and use debuild -us -uc to build a client package
[23:35] <tcole> you might need to apt-get some bits to use debuild, I'm not sure
[23:35] <tcole> also need fakeroot
[23:35] <tcole> debuild isn't the right way to build a package for distribution (for that you'd use pbuilder), but it's nice for quick and dirty things like this
[23:36] <BUGabundo> already did that part of apt-get debbuild
[23:36] <tcole> ok
[23:36] <BUGabundo> $ debuild -us -uc
[23:36] <BUGabundo> This package has a Debian revision number but there does not seem to be an appropriate original tar file or .orig directory in the parent directory; (expected one of ubuntuone-client_0.90.1.orig.tar.gz, ubuntuone-client_0.90.1.orig.tar.bz2, ubuntuone-client_0.90.1.orig.tar.lzma or ubuntuone-client.orig)
[23:36] <tcole> say yes anyway if it gives you the opportunity
[23:36] <BUGabundo> doing so
[23:37] <BUGabundo> irk so many inkscape errors/warnings
[23:37] <dobey> sigh. i can't believe it takes 20 minutes to prepare a pizza to stick in the oven
[23:37] <BUGabundo> aahah
[23:37] <dobey> yeah, inkscape is buggy
[23:38] <BUGabundo> dobey: I ate tonight one of the best Pizzas in Porto
[23:38] <BUGabundo> I always do on fridays
[23:38] <BUGabundo> if any of you ever comes to Portugal on day, Pizza is on me
[23:40]  * dobey calls mark to let him know BUGabundo will take care of pizza for us at next UDS ;)
[23:40] <BUGabundo> ME WHAT?
[23:41] <BUGabundo> I'm unpleoid... feel free to let mark know he can get me a job as sysadmi or PR
[23:43] <sladen> BUGabundo: debuild -b -uc -us
[23:43] <sladen> BUGabundo: the -b says to only produce a binary package
[23:44] <BUGabundo> so now what?
[23:44] <BUGabundo> I dpgk install it?
[23:46] <dobey> yes
[23:47] <sladen> what's the significance of port 20101
[23:51] <dobey> significance where?
[23:53] <sladen> it's used in an example
[23:53] <sladen> is it the magic port that ubunet listens on, or something like that
[23:54] <sladen> it would be less confusing if 'ubuntuone-storage-protocol' were renamed  'python-u1storage'
[23:55] <dobey> yeah, we need to rename some of the packages
[23:56] <dobey> oh
[23:56] <dobey> the examples also refer to localhost, and the bits where that port is used, are commented out
[23:56] <dobey> those might need updating too
[23:57] <sladen> what is the origin of it?
[23:57] <dobey> i don't know where that port # came from
[23:58] <tcole> sladen: agreed, at least, it should certainly have the python- on there which it doesn't...
[23:59] <tcole> dobey, could you review? -> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~tcole/ubuntuone-storage-protocol/better-readme/+merge/7134


[16:02]  * slangasek waves
[16:02] <ev> hi
[16:03] <ev> apologies in advance for the flood
[16:03]  * stgraber waves
[16:03] <stgraber> ev: oh, you mean it's even longer than usual ;)
[16:03] <jhunt> o/
[16:03] <ev> stgraber: exactly
[16:04]  * ev teas and hopes he's not first up
[16:04] <slangasek> #startmeeting
[16:04] <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Feb 15 16:04:58 2012 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[16:04] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[16:05] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
[16:05] <slangasek> ev: sorry ;)
[16:05] <slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry bdmurray cjwatson doko ev jhunt_ stgraber slangasek)
[16:05] <slangasek> ev doko jhunt_ barry stgraber slangasek bdmurray cjwatson
[16:05] <stgraber> ;)
[16:05] <slangasek> doko: do you want to go ahead while ev is tea-ing?
[16:07] <doko> ok
[16:07] <doko> - LinaroConnect last week, cumbersome way back home
[16:08] <doko> - forwarding GCC 4.7 upstream issues, another 4.6 test build (will hit precise this week)
[16:08] <doko> - started openjdk-6 security updates
[16:08] <doko> - eglibc fixes, thanks to cjwatson
[16:09] <doko> done
[16:09] <jhunt> Finished changes for bug 926468. Reworked early job logging code and
[16:09] <jhunt> combined both into upstart-1.4-0ubuntu7~jh in my
[16:09] <jhunt> https://launchpad.net/~jamesodhunt/+archive/upstart-job-logging PPA for
[16:09] <jhunt> testing prior to FF (if you're not running it, please install and !)
[16:09] <jhunt> Investigating test failures on PPC+ARM*. Spent a little time looking at
[16:09] <jhunt> bug 931220/931584 with stgraber.
[16:09] <jhunt> ♁
[16:09] <jhunt> ... and provide feedback that is :)
[16:10] <ev> back
[16:10] <stgraber> ev: go ahead
[16:10] <ev> apols for that
[16:10] <ev> okay, cheers
[16:10] <ev> - Lots and lots of work on the new Apport UI:
[16:10] <ev>   - More work on matching the KDE frontend to the GTK changes.
[16:10] <ev>   - Some bug fixes.
[16:10] <ev>   - Handle errors better in the information collection thread.
[16:10] <ev>   - Fix some issues around displaying multiple reports in one run.
[16:10] <ev>   - Unit test the GTK+ frontend, complete with a pair of bug fixes.
[16:10] <ev>   - Add KDE frontend unit tests, along with some more bug fixes.
[16:10] <ev>   - Remove old GTK+ dialogs.
[16:10] <ev>   - Put graphical tests under xvfb. Only use it if it's present.
[16:10] <ev>   - Don't hardcode Ubuntu.
[16:10] <ev>   - Move UI tests out of their respective modules, per pitti's request.
[16:10] <ev>   - Bring apport-cli into the new threaded way of collection problem
[16:10] <ev>     information. Update its calls to the UI backend.
[16:10] <ev>   - Merge review with Martin in:
[16:10] <ev>     https://code.launchpad.net/~ev/apport/whoopsie/+merge/92753
[16:11] <ev> - Lots and lots of work around whoopsie's security review:
[16:11] <ev>   - Don't fail if there are no crash files (LP: #928735).
[16:11] <ev>   - Do not attempt to load the control center panel UI from the build
[16:11] <ev>     directory.
[16:11] <ev>   - Check the return value of the open call in get_system_uuid.
[16:11] <ev>   - Properly initialize libcrypt.
[16:11] <ev>   - Check that the call to gcry_md_open succeeds.
[16:11] <ev>   - Ensure that reading the SHA512 message digest succeeds.
[16:11] <ev>   - Protect against changes to the message digest length creating a security
[16:11] <ev>     vulnerability.
[16:11] <ev>   - Check the returncode of setenv.
[16:11] <ev>   - Use /var/lock/whoopsie instead of /tmp/.whoopsie-lock.
[16:11] <ev>   - Future proof by using getrlimit instead of explicitly closing STD*.
[16:11] <ev>   - Redirect stdin, stdout, and stderr to /dev/null.
[16:11] <ev>   - Ensure strings created in update_to_crash_file are NUL-terminated.
[16:11] <ev>   - Only process regular files in /var/crash.
[16:11] <ev>   - Replace calls to *alloc with g_*alloc, which calls abort on failure.
[16:11] <ev>   - Remove unused system_uuid pointer references.
[16:11] <ev>   - Recover from being unable to get the system UUID.
[16:11] <ev>   - Fix warnings in make check.
[16:11] <ev>   - Initialize all of curl.
[16:11] <ev>   - Redirect stderr to null in chgrp and chmod calls.
[16:11] <ev>   - Set home directory to /nonexistent.
[16:11] <ev>   - Enable libcrypt secure memory.
[16:11] <ev>   - Put the lock file in /var/lock/whoopsie/.
[16:11] <ev>   - Sanity check the CRASH_DB_URL environment variable.
[16:11] <ev>   - Add some more tests for parse_report, along with data from Jamie
[16:11] <ev>     Strandboge.
[16:11] <ev>   - Check handling of embedded NUL bytes.
[16:11] <ev>   - Verify that symlinks in /var/crash produce the correct error.
[16:11] <ev>   - Verify that keys without values in reports produce an error message.
[16:11] <ev>   - Ensure that the report does not start with a value.
[16:12] <ev>   - Correctly identify a report without spaces as malformed.
[16:12] <ev>   - Verify that directories in /var/crash produce the correct error.
[16:12] <ev>   - Ensure that blank lines in a report are treated as errors.
[16:12] <ev>   - Change the crash database URL to http://daisy.ubuntu.com :)
[16:12] <ev>   - Ensure that carriage returns are escaped.
[16:12] <ev>   - Do not start multiline values with a newline.
[16:12] <ev>   - Check that a valid report has the exact expected contents.
[16:12] <ev>   - MIR/security review with Jamie in:
[16:12] <ev>     https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/whoopsie-daisy/+bug/913694
[16:12] <ev> - Slideshow planning meeting with Christian and Dylan.
[16:12] <ev> - Meeting to understand Canonical UK pension scheme.
[16:12] <ev> (done)
[16:12] <ev> I will need a freeze exception, but I'm buried in interview prep work, so I'll sort that later tonight
[16:13] <stgraber> - Networking
[16:13] <stgraber>  - Waiting on SRU test results for ifenslave/vlan/bridge, I'm told I should have these later today
[16:13] <stgraber>  - Got daily IPv6 testing ported to regular bridge-utils so it can run within a container (yeah, container in containers)
[16:13] <stgraber> - Arkose
[16:13] <stgraber>  - Updated the Arkose cli tool to show all the new features, did some minor bugfixing of the python module, updated translations and released 1.5
[16:13] <stgraber> - Friendly-Recovery
[16:13] <stgraber>  - Updated menu landed, all options are always displayed now and switch from read-only to read/write is done when selecting an option requiring it
[16:13] <stgraber>  - Still working on a 'system information' option, should land later today or early tomorrow
[16:13] <stgraber> - LTSP
[16:13] <stgraber>  - Improve ltsp-live for Edubuntu
[16:13] <stgraber>  - Lots of changes happening upstream to get the new shiny stuff ready by Feature Freeze. Testers are still busy and I expect an upload very shortly before FF.
[16:13] <stgraber>  - Merged nbd from unstable to get some fixes needed for LTSP.
[16:13] <stgraber>  - I've also started cleaning up the maintainer scripts and will spend some time to deal with our current installer bugs (ltsp-client-builder udeb)
[16:13] <stgraber> - Upstart
[16:13] <stgraber>  - Tried to figure out why some jobs sometimes inherit an extra fd (a socket in this case), tracked down to something around libldap/libnss-ldap/libnss affecting
[16:13] <stgraber>    machines using libnss-ldap. This was breaking LXC's upstart job, now fixed in LXC by having lxc-start close the extra fds.
[16:13] <stgraber> - Containers
[16:13] <stgraber>  - Uploaded a new LXC with reworked template and Serge's patch to have our consoles and ttys in /dev/lxc, fixing upgrade/dist-upgrade in LXC for good. (bug 927519))
[16:13] <stgraber>  - Updated shadow to add the new LXC consoles and ttys to securetty
[16:13] <stgraber>  - Added a network-interface-container upstart job to ifupdown to simulate net-device-added for 'lo' in containers
[16:13] <stgraber>  - Disable udevadm trigger --action=add in containers (bug 925122) - commited to the packaging branch, waiting on upstart to build on armel/armhf/powerpc.
[16:13] <stgraber> - Other
[16:14] <stgraber>  - Helped some friends of the LTTng project, sponsored the new LTTng2 stack (now in NEW) and filed the needed package removal bugs for the old broken stack
[16:14] <stgraber>  - Will release pastebinit 1.3 later today, waiting for some extra translations at the moment
[16:14] <stgraber> (done)
[16:15]  * slangasek runs out of breath reading ev's report
[16:15] <ev> hah
[16:16] <jhunt> ENOSPC over here! :)
[16:17] <slangasek> stgraber: huh, why does lxc need different names for its ttys?
[16:18] <stgraber> slangasek: lxc was bind mounting its ttys from outside the container to /dev/tty[1234] which is all fine, except when you deal with anything like udev/makedev/... which tries to move them, remove them, ...
[16:19] <stgraber> slangasek: so the easiest solution to fix it until we get a proper device namespace and can stop with the bind mounts was to use another location
[16:19] <slangasek> hmm, ok
[16:19] <slangasek> right, my turn
[16:19] <slangasek>  * short week, was off Monday
[16:19] <slangasek>  * interviewing
[16:19] <slangasek>  * helping test/merge upstart fixes to be landed in precise today
[16:19] <slangasek>  * resolvconf finagling
[16:19] <slangasek>  * discussions about how to minimize future breakage from eglibc uploads
[16:19] <slangasek>  * libnih1 uploaded for essential-ish pre-dependency issues
[16:19] <slangasek>  * working with IS to get qemu-linaro situated to where it can be used as an emulated armel buildd running on top of a hardy VM
[16:19] <slangasek>  * minor eglibc work
[16:19] <slangasek>  * virtual sprint planning
[16:19] <slangasek> ..
[16:19] <slangasek> questions?
[16:20] <bdmurray> review of bug pattern merge proposals from Vadim Rutkovsky
[16:20] <bdmurray> fixing of SRU for bug 873424 after discussion with verifier
[16:20] <bdmurray> test and fix for bug 901381 regarding ubiquity's apport behavior
[16:20] <bdmurray> triage of bug 922330 regarding wubi installing precise
[16:20] <bdmurray> fixed lp_buttontags to make tagging bugs easier
[16:20] <bdmurray> modifications to lp-grab-attachments to download bugs about a project
[16:20] <bdmurray> updated bugsquad tags to include new ubiquity bug tags
[16:20] <bdmurray> research into and fixing of universe packages assigned to the foundations team in the package to team mapping
[16:20] <bdmurray> upload of update-manager to lucid-proposed which adds in apport package hook
[16:21] <bdmurray> fixed bug 878335 regarding moving bugs to grub-installer from ubiquity
[16:21] <bdmurray> creation of packageset recent package bug graphs
[16:21] <bdmurray> ⌁
[16:22] <cjwatson> Interviewing.
[16:22] <cjwatson> Another try at fixing ports installs (bug 919356).
[16:22] <cjwatson> Investigation of fixes for glibc 2.15 regressions.
[16:22] <cjwatson> Added a mock GResolver to the ubiquity test suite to make it more reliable in various contexts (the powerpc build, stgraber's LXC setup).  Would have been much quicker except that https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=669847 meant I had to do this in C.
[16:22] <cjwatson> Clearing out http://lintian.ubuntuwire.org/tags/preinst-uses-dpkg-maintscript-helper-without-predepends.html.  Very slow and tedious, but everything is uploaded or has patches in a BTS somewhere now.
[16:22] <cjwatson> Made a pass through some outstanding team work items with Steve and postponed a few.
[16:22] <cjwatson> Tested transfer speed between cdimage and ftpmaster for foundations-p-image-build-pipeline.
[16:22] <cjwatson> Reorganised the ubiquity test suite to be able to run in a DEP-8-compliant package tester (i.e. testing the installed version of the package).
[16:22] <cjwatson> Working on a refactoring of how ubiquity removes about-to-be-copied files from the target system that fixes a slew of bugs and is more testable.
[16:22] <cjwatson> ..
[16:23] <jhunt> cjwatson: have we got the infrastructure to run DEP-8 tests yet?
[16:23] <cjwatson> autopkgtest exists; I don't know its current status, and we don't yet have it set up in a datacentre machine or anything
[16:23] <cjwatson> in theory should be a simple matter of sysadmin
[16:24] <jhunt> great as I'd like to be able to run the upstart tests in this way too.
[16:24] <cjwatson> You should be able to give autopkgtest a spin locally if you have time :)
[16:25] <slangasek> stgraber: this udev change would more than slow the boot, it would prevent events from being triggered entirely... this requires a versioned dep on upstart.
[16:25] <cjwatson> I admit I didn't actually try it out, merely ran the test in the appropriate environment under strace to ensure that it was testing the installed system and read the spec for the control file very carefully
[16:25] <jhunt> cjwatson: ok, ta.
[16:26] <slangasek> is the QA team involved with the autopkgtest discussions?
[16:26] <stgraber> slangasek: indeed, I'll add the versioned dep.
[16:26] <cjwatson> slangasek: there were QA people present at the appropriate UDS sessions, and jibel has a work item that came out of that; can't speak for after that
[16:27] <slangasek> stgraber: please check that such a versioned dep doesn't cause upgrade problems, too...
[16:27] <slangasek> cjwatson: ok
[16:28] <slangasek> cjwatson: just wondering if this is something that should be set up to run as part of the QA lab
[16:30] <cjwatson> eventually, yes; the blueprint calls for initial metadata to be added to a few key packages, and for something to be written that's able to feed it into a putative "should this be allowed to migrate from -proposed" tool
[16:30]  * slangasek nods
[16:30] <cjwatson> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-p-upload-intermediary
[16:31] <slangasek> any other questions?
[16:32] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Bugs
[16:33] <bdmurray> I've run across a couple this week worth discussing
[16:33] <bdmurray> Is bug 930304 something our team should fix?
[16:34] <slangasek> yes
[16:34] <bdmurray> okay
[16:34] <slangasek> I'll probably wind up doing that one with my Debian eglibc committer hat
[16:34] <slangasek> (feel free to assign to me)
[16:34] <doko> ohh, nice =)
[16:35] <bdmurray> regarding bug 818760 should the timeout be increased or might it be something with the server?
[16:35] <bdmurray> uri=urllib2.urlopen(req, timeout=20)
[16:35] <cjwatson> in principle it's always possible for network communication to fail for all kinds of reasons
[16:35] <bdmurray> from the traceback
[16:36] <cjwatson> u-m has to cope somehow without crashing
[16:36] <cjwatson> and preferably without stalling the UI forever while it tries to talk through a firewall that's dropping all its outbound packets, say
[16:37] <slangasek> right, so it needs to be fixed to not crash
[16:37] <bdmurray> got it
[16:39] <bdmurray> bug 926581 - that should have tasks for the meta package or the package manager?
[16:39] <mvo> (fwiw, this stuff should be running in a thread already, but indeed, it should not crash)
[16:40] <ev> ah, debconf. Can we set fire to it yet?
[16:40] <cjwatson> :-P
[16:41] <ev> :D
[16:41] <slangasek> no, but feel free to fix its protocol ;)
[16:41] <cjwatson> what's the protocol-level problem here?
[16:41] <slangasek> here? none
[16:41] <ev> sure, I'll just make it NOP every instruction
[16:41] <slangasek> but I was offering ev productive outlets for his anger ;)
[16:42] <ev> give me the source code to dpkg and hook me to a turbine. I'll power London with my rage. ;)
[16:42] <slangasek> bdmurray: seems like a synaptic problem
[16:42] <bdmurray> and software-center (that's what I tested)
[16:43] <bdmurray> er, not software-center
[16:43] <bdmurray> okay, thanks!
[16:43] <slangasek> oh
[16:43] <slangasek> sorry, read to fast
[16:43] <slangasek> I read comment 3 but didn't digest 4
[16:44] <bdmurray> well my grammar didn't help I'm sure
[16:44] <slangasek> that's a puzzling one
[16:44] <slangasek> anyone want to take a closer look at it?
[16:46] <slangasek> well, I'll have a peek then
[16:46] <slangasek> bdmurray: any other bugs?
[16:47] <bdmurray> just wubi bug 862003
[16:48] <cjwatson> ... how's that Windows hire going? ;-)
[16:49] <slangasek> ... workin' on it
[16:49] <slangasek> add that bug to the queue :P
[16:49] <bdmurray> I'll have to make a queue but okay
[16:50] <slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
[16:50] <slangasek> anything else?
[16:51] <ev> filing a freeze exception for the crash database stuff as mentioned above
[16:51] <ev> not a lot more work, just more than I think I'll manage tonight
[16:52] <cjwatson> the freeze is actually 2100 tomorrow, I believe
[16:52] <ev> yay, that buys me a bit more time
[16:52] <slangasek> :)
[16:52] <ev> should I request an exception, just in case, or is mentioning it here enough to make the release team aware that I'm cutting it close?
[16:53] <slangasek> it's already on Kate's list
[16:53] <slangasek> as a "late-landing change"
[16:53] <cjwatson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/FeatureLanding
[16:53] <slangasek> yep
[16:53] <ev> wow, hyper-organized
[16:53] <ev> cheers guys
[16:54] <slangasek> #endmeeting
[16:54] <meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Feb 15 16:54:10 2012 UTC.
[16:54] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-15-16.04.moin.txt
[16:54] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-15-16.04.html
[16:54] <slangasek> that's a wrap
[16:54] <slangasek> thanks all
[16:54] <ev> thanks!
[16:54] <stgraber> thanks!
[16:54] <doko> bye
[16:54] <jhunt> thanks!
[17:00] <balloons> yar.. it be time to talk about some QA yar
[17:04] <balloons> so let's begin
[17:04] <balloons> #startmeeting Ubuntu QA
[17:04] <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Feb 15 17:04:27 2012 UTC.  The chair is balloons. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[17:04] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[17:04] <balloons> I'll go ahead and ask for a brief roll call, while I grab the agenda :-)
[17:05] <albrigha> o/
[17:05]  * charlie-tca here
[17:05] <phillw> o/
[17:06] <balloons> hello everyone
[17:06] <balloons> first item on the agenda
[17:06] <balloons> [TOPIC] Previous Actions
[17:06] <balloons> ACTION: phillw to update wiki to better reflect activities and automated testing pages
[17:06] <balloons> phillw, any updates on this?
[17:06] <phillw> I've had a dig around, and the main source of information seems to be https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-p-qa-automated-test-submissions does anyone know of any other infornmation?
[17:07] <phillw> I apologise, life has been a little hectic of late. I will ask on the mailing list / search archives etc. to try and garner further information this week.
[17:09] <balloons> no worries phillw.. Happy to have you working on it
[17:10] <balloons> i believe the idea was to change up the wiki page a bit to give more light to the activities link
[17:11] <phillw> Hopefully with feature freeze imminent, things will quieten down a bit.
[17:11] <balloons> yes.. this week has been quite busy
[17:12] <balloons> and the work previous
[17:12] <balloons> :-)
[17:12] <phillw> I'll have a draft up before the next meeting and circualte it.
[17:12] <balloons> so for instance on this page, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam, the activities is still buried as a link
[17:12] <balloons> sounds great..
[17:13] <balloons> [ACTION] phillw to provide draft on wiki updates to activities and automated testing pages
[17:13] <meetingology> ACTION: phillw to provide draft on wiki updates to activities and automated testing pages
[17:13] <balloons> ok, moving along
[17:13] <balloons> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Updates
[17:14] <balloons> ok, Lucid ISO testing for 10.04.4 is going on today.. I know everyone is busy busy
[17:14] <balloons> I have been as hammered as everyone else, but I plan to do so testing this afternoon on those isos
[17:15] <balloons> not sure if jibel wants to say anything more.. he's likely knee-deep right now
[17:15] <charlie-tca> o/
[17:15] <balloons> go ahead charlie-tca
[17:16] <charlie-tca> I am testing Kubuntu, and that could use any help we can get. I think 10.04.4 is Kubuntu and Ubuntu only, isn't it?
[17:16] <charlie-tca> Ubuntu is looking pretty good, but nothing is done yet for Kubuntu
[17:17] <charlie-tca> ..
[17:17] <balloons> charlie-tca, yes it should be only those 2
[17:17] <balloons> I know ScottK was asking for help as well.. I'll do some kubuntu isos :-)
[17:17] <balloons> if anyone else has a spare moment, they would greatly appreciate it
[17:18] <balloons> the other update for ubuntu is feature freeze as phillw mentioned, and it affects everyone. Lots of calls for testing have gone out this week and last in preparation for it
[17:18] <balloons> i'll talk more about those "calls for testing" at the end.. I wanted to get some feedback from everyone
[17:19] <balloons> any questions?
[17:19] <Riddell> thanks balloons
[17:19] <balloons> k, let's move on to the flavors! :-)
[17:19] <balloons> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Flavor Updates
[17:19] <balloons> yvw Riddell
[17:20] <balloons> Riddell, since your here.. anything additional to share on Kubuntu?
[17:20] <Riddell> umm, what's the meeting?
[17:21] <balloons> :-) this is for the QA team
[17:21] <Riddell> QA?
[17:21] <balloons> yep yep
[17:21] <Riddell> I just put telepathy-kde on the CD, that needs testing to decide if it's better or worse than (unmaintained) kopete
[17:22] <Riddell> owncloud could do with some testing (come to #kubuntu-devel to try it out with music streaming!)
[17:22] <Riddell> we hope to get kubuntu-active CDs being made soon, that'll be i386 simple live sessions test, not install
[17:22] <Riddell> means we'd be the first distro with a tablet edition I think
[17:23] <balloons> kubuntu-active?
[17:23] <Riddell> and of course kubuntu isn't going to be supported by canonical any more so we'll need to consider how that affects QA in future
[17:24] <balloons> Riddell, any plans to change up how qa works in kubuntu?
[17:24] <Riddell> kubuntu-active is a proposed remix of kubuntu with plasma active, the tablet UI http://www.plasma-active.org/
[17:24] <Riddell> we have no plans yet
[17:24] <balloons> ahh.. ok, plasma-active is neat.. will be interesting to see where that goes
[17:25] <balloons> ok.. anything else to update or questions for kubuntu?
[17:25] <Riddell> that's all
[17:26] <balloons> thanks Riddell
[17:26] <balloons> phillw, can you update us on lubuntu?
[17:27] <phillw> usual hectic stuff, the alternate iso's are still over-sized but that is being worked on. We seem now to have enough people interested for Power PC testing to happen. As such I created https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/Testing/PPC
[17:28] <phillw> If anyone is familiar with adding the ppc emulation in qemu (KVM), please do give a hint!
[17:29] <phillw> that's about it from lubuntu.
[17:29] <balloons> thanks phillw -- I saw the thread about messing about with qemu -- I hadn't used qemu in awhile. back in the days of qemu and kqemu :-)
[17:30] <balloons> how about xubuntu?
[17:30] <charlie-tca> We seem to be in pretty good shape
[17:30] <charlie-tca> all images are at least working, even if they are oversize.
[17:31] <charlie-tca> The oversize is expected at least until after Feature Freeze, when Ubuntu quits adding things
[17:31] <charlie-tca> We are trying to keep up with daily testing as much as possible.
[17:32] <charlie-tca> I am hopeless when it comes to automating the testing for Xubuntu.
[17:32] <charlie-tca> ..
[17:33] <balloons> charlie-tca, on the automation piece, do you feel xubuntu could piggyback onto the tools ubuntu uses / plans to use?
[17:33] <balloons> err.. well is xfce moving to gtk3?
[17:33] <charlie-tca> I can't. I don't have the background to figure out how to do it
[17:33] <charlie-tca> Xfce won't move to gtk3 until 4.10, so we will have both gtk2 and gtk3 until then, probably Xubuntu 12.10
[17:35] <balloons> ok.. no 4.10 in plans for precise (I don't think it releases to almost after precise :-) )
[17:35] <charlie-tca> The chances of Xfce 4.10 coming out in time for precise are slim]
[17:35] <balloons> ok, but they are moving.. I would assume then it might be possible
[17:35] <charlie-tca> We keep hoping, though.
[17:35] <balloons> something to think aboue
[17:36] <balloons> alright, how about ubuntu studio?
[17:36] <balloons> astraljava or  anyone else about?
[17:38] <balloons> alright moving on.. edubuntu.. any updateS/
[17:38] <balloons> stgraber, or highvoltage ?
[17:38] <stgraber> nothing for edubuntu
[17:39] <balloons> thanks :-)
[17:39] <balloons> ok, moving topics
[17:39] <balloons> [TOPIC] Blueprint updates / discussion
[17:39] <balloons> anyone want to discuss anything from the blueprints?
[17:39] <balloons> or give an update, request help, etc?
[17:39] <balloons> going once, twice..
[17:40] <balloons> sold, and moving on :-)
[17:40] <balloons> [TOPIC] Other topics
[17:40] <balloons> Ok, last on the agenda.. anyone have anything to add before we get into these final topics?
[17:40] <balloons> i'll add you to the list right now :-)
[17:41] <balloons> ok, let's start then
[17:41] <balloons> first up is Lucid ISO Testing Updates
[17:42] <balloons> I gave them for ubuntu, and the kubuntu guys have spoken about them for kubuntu.. if you can, please help test.. Riddell, if someone wants to help test kubuntu lucid 10.04.4 isos, is there an irc channel to hang out in?
[17:43] <Riddell> welcome in #kubuntu-devel
[17:43] <balloons> awesome, thanks
[17:44] <balloons> next I wanted to speak about my "Calls for Testing" that have gone out.. these calls are still a work in progress, but I was hoping to get feedback from everyone if they felt they were helpful and they liked the format of them or not, etc
[17:45] <balloons> any comments are appreciated if you got them ;-) I want to get more / better tools and metrics around doing this manual testing and I would take ideas on that as well.. both what we can do in the short-term as well as long-term
[17:45] <charlie-tca> o/
[17:45] <balloons> go ahead charlie-tca
[17:46] <charlie-tca> I think the wording of the last three or four was great. I also like the fact that you are explaining the issues involved in messing up the install on your blog entries.
[17:46] <charlie-tca> Letting people know if they do the test, they may have to reinstall to get back to where they were is always a good idea.
[17:47] <charlie-tca> and thanks for your patience in explaining things.
[17:47] <charlie-tca> .
[17:47] <charlie-tca> ..
[17:47] <balloons> charlie-tca, thanks for the feedback.. glad it's coming across as making sense
[17:48] <charlie-tca> I usually try to see what the new people will be seeing. It is making good sense at this time.
[17:48] <balloons> excellent to hear :-)
[17:49] <balloons> we're pushing our time, so I'll move on to the last item
[17:49] <balloons> Manual TestCase Review Updates
[17:49] <balloons> albrigha, I'll let you speak a bit :-)
[17:49] <albrigha> Hello!
[17:49] <albrigha> well I completed copying over the wiki test cases to the test case spreadsheet
[17:50] <albrigha> hopefully that will help on reworking them. otherwise I haven't done much more with them
[17:50] <albrigha> there was some debating on updating them, etc. and i'm rather distracted with another project >_<
[17:50] <albrigha> here is the spreadsheet document if others don't have it: https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgtV30nnv18edFQzNVB4S2duOWNOT05zaHo3S0pNekE&hl=en_US#gid=0
[17:51] <albrigha> i learned a lot while copying them over however, right now there isn't a lot of consistency
[17:52] <balloons> i have been attempting to push out and get in any rewrites as quickly as possible. we've had a couple edits directly on the wiki as well.. some new tests for shotwell which never existed, etc
[17:52] <balloons> so work is continuing and I appreciate all the work that has been done. we'll get there :-)
[17:52] <balloons> thanks albrigha
[17:52] <balloons> anything else from anyone? questions / comments?
[17:53] <balloons> if not, let's call this meeting a wrap. Thanks for attending everyone. Hopefully the coming weeks will find all of us just a bit less busy! ;-)
[17:53] <balloons> #endmeeting
[17:53] <meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Feb 15 17:53:44 2012 UTC.
[17:53] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-15-17.04.moin.txt
[17:53] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-15-17.04.html
[17:53] <charlie-tca> balloons: thank you for chairing
[17:54] <balloons> charlie-tca, et la.. as always, thanks for attending!
[17:54] <charlie-tca> Got to just keep trying here.
[18:02] <bdmurray> hi
[18:02] <charlie-tca> Hi
[18:02] <bdmurray> time for the bug squad meeting
[18:03] <bdmurray> hey charlie-tca
[18:03] <bdmurray> #startmeeting
[18:03] <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Feb 15 18:03:09 2012 UTC.  The chair is bdmurray. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[18:03] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[18:03] <bdmurray> #topic Previous Actions
[18:03] <bdmurray> ACTION: create a better list of apport-crash bugs with "DBus.Error.NoReply" in the title with bug information regarding status, importance, number of dupes and users affected: bdmurray
[18:03] <bdmurray> that was something Ursinha wanted to see
[18:04] <bdmurray> and its at http://paste.ubuntu.com/843325/
[18:04] <bdmurray> I stripped out the titles because they were all the same
[18:04] <bdmurray> more or less
[18:05] <bdmurray> so I think if the bug is Confirmed or Triaged they should be manually inspected otherwise they could automatically be marked as invalid
[18:06] <bdmurray> with an explanation regarding why the client error isn't helpful and how we really want the crash from the server
[18:07] <bdmurray> #topic Engineering Team Bug Status
[18:08] <bdmurray> I've been looking at update-manager bugs and realized there isn't an apport hook for update-manager in Lucid so I've added one and that upload is in lucid-proposed
[18:08] <bdmurray> this should help us get higher quality bug reports from people performing distribution upgrades from lucid to precise
[18:08] <bdmurray> that's bug 927979 if anybody wants to subscribe and do the sru verification
[18:10] <bdmurray> I've also had a change merged to ubiquity that will result in more apport-crash reports. Not more bugs but rather some crashes were being reported as apport-bug reports rather than crashes.
[18:10] <bdmurray> so that'll be good
[18:10] <bdmurray> as the bugs will have tracebacks and can be auto duplicated
[18:11] <bdmurray> I also updated lp_buttontags and firefox-lp-improvements so that tagging works again
[18:12] <bdmurray> finally I've a merge proposal that allows lp-grab-attachments to work with a project (I was using this to download all wubi bug attachments)
[18:12] <bdmurray> Ursinha: Do you have anything?
[18:14] <bdmurray> jsalisbury: ?
[18:14] <jsalisbury> No major updates.  Continuing to address new precise kernels bug to get as many fixed as possible.
[18:14] <jsalisbury> I need to ask the kernel team when kerneloops should be disabled in precise.
[18:16] <bdmurray> kerneloops, ah right.  that's an easy thing so whenever
[18:16] <jsalisbury> ok, I'll let you know shortly
[18:17] <bdmurray> thanks!
[18:17] <bdmurray> #topic Bug Escalations (any High or Critical bugs that community members have seen that need attention)
[18:17] <bdmurray> charlie-tca: have you seen anything?
[18:20] <bdmurray> #topic Other Topics
[18:20] <bdmurray> anything else then?
[18:22] <charlie-tca> sorry,
[18:22] <bdmurray> charlie-tca: no problem
[18:22] <charlie-tca> no, I haven't seen any really serious issues this cycle
[18:22] <charlie-tca> It seems like a really good cycle for bugs
[18:23] <bdmurray> that's good to hear, thanks
[18:24] <bdmurray> if that's all then
[18:24] <bdmurray> #endmeeting
[18:24] <meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Feb 15 18:24:28 2012 UTC.
[18:24] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-15-18.03.moin.txt
[18:24] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-15-18.03.html
[18:24] <jsalisbury> thanks bdmurray
[18:25] <charlie-tca> bdmurray: thank you for chairing
[20:03] <gilir> #startmeeting Lubuntu Team Meeting
[20:03] <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Feb 15 20:03:38 2012 UTC.  The chair is gilir. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[20:03] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[20:03]  * gilir looks around for people :)
[20:04]  * Unit193
[20:04] <phillw> o/
[20:04]  * wxl
[20:04] <Unit193> wxl: Monkey.... ;)
[20:04] <wxl> ;)
[20:04] <gilir> few people tonight, it should be a quick one this time :)
[20:05] <gilir> aganda : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/IRC%20Meetings/Agenda
[20:05] <kanliot> k
[20:05] <gilir> #topic gilir - Review ACTIONS from the last meeting
[20:05] <gilir> clipboard "issue" is fixed, in time for feature freeze :)
[20:06] <phillw> well done :)
[20:06] <wxl> \o/
[20:06] <wxl> "yes!"
[20:06] <gilir> still looking for the oversize of alternate
[20:06] <wxl> gilir: looking FOR or looking INTO?
[20:07] <gilir> wxl, into
[20:07] <phillw> it's very close. with feature freeze, I'm told that ubuntu should not keep adding stuff into them!
[20:07] <wxl> k
[20:07] <gilir> sorry, my english is worst when I'm tired :)
[20:08] <gilir> phillw, same for us, we will focus on bug fixing after FF
[20:08] <gilir> no more actions from previous meeting, I'll continue with the agenda
[20:09] <gilir> #topic phillw - Weekly report - Update from QA meeting and team
[20:09] <wxl> brb need more coffee
[20:09] <phillw> As with all teams, a mad rush for FF. There are no screaming bugs and we do now seem to have enough people interested in PPC to form https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/Testing/PPC
[20:10] <StephenSmally> Hi guys, sorry i'm late
[20:10] <phillw> I've queried about adding the ppc emulation onto KVM / qemu - but this needs some more research.
[20:10] <phillw> that's all from QA
[20:11] <gilir> thanks phillw , let us know if you have big issues when testing PPC
[20:11] <gilir> #topic Unit193 - Weekly report - Update from IRC OP's team
[20:11] <Unit193> 1. There is confusion as to how someone gets unbanned, this was brought up after someone got unbanned. 2. We've swapped ubot2 out for ubottu now, so the bantracker will help keep track of bans, and package info should be working better. 3. I may be m
[20:11] <Unit193> issing something, so if anyone has a comment?
[20:12] <MrChrisDruif> There WAS confusion about unbanning, but this was cleared in the mailing-list afaik
[20:13] <Unit193> Not quite it seems.
[20:14] <Unit193> Questions? Comments?
[20:14] <MrChrisDruif> What is still unclear then?
[20:14] <Unit193> Well, not having official access to bantracker yet will make it harder, but everything else should be about good.
[20:15] <Unit193> Though, it was ubot5, not ubot2.
[20:16] <gilir> ok, thanks Unit193 :)
[20:16] <MrChrisDruif> The Lubuntu ops decide if and when a person gets unbanned, so I'm certain about why there seems to be confusion about bans at all
[20:17] <Unit193> Well, telling what the issue was with someone, or if they understand what went wrong.
[20:18] <gilir> I'll go directly to dev team report, if you have comment on comm or support team, we will answer them at the end of the meeting
[20:18] <MrChrisDruif> But now with ubottu should make this more clear for all the ops?
[20:19] <Unit193> MrChrisDruif: Yes, once everything is finished with setting up.
[20:19] <MrChrisDruif> Alright, no further questions ^_^
[20:19] <gilir> we just need to be nice with the new bot ;)
[20:19] <Unit193> Aye, no kicking her.
[20:20] <MrChrisDruif> Ghehe
[20:20] <MrChrisDruif> Only sweet-talk to her?
[20:20] <MrChrisDruif> ;-)
[20:20] <gilir> #topic gilir - Weekly report - Update from Devs teams
[20:20] <phillw> kicking ubottu would result in death !
[20:20] <gilir> As you may know, Feature Freeze is very close
[20:20] <MrChrisDruif> Yes, tomorrow!
[20:21] <phillw> 24 hours and 40 minutes...
[20:21] <gilir> after this, no new feature can be added, unless we add some documentation and justification for it
[20:21] <gilir> and I don't like to write this :)
[20:21] <gilir> we manage to update some components last week
[20:22] <gilir> new lxkeymap with autostart support
[20:22] <gilir> lxsession with clipboard
[20:22] <MrChrisDruif> o/
[20:22] <gilir> LSC with ratings
[20:22] <gilir> lxpanel with a lot of bugfixes
[20:23] <gilir> so if you are running precise, please test them :)
[20:23] <gilir> especially, if you had bugs with lxpanel, please test again :)
[20:24] <gilir> but don't worry, we can still fix bug after FF
[20:24] <phillw> o/
[20:24] <gilir> I think it's all, any questions ?
[20:24] <MrChrisDruif> Yup
[20:25] <kanliot> question time?
[20:25] <kanliot> yes
[20:25] <kanliot> in lubuntu precise, every new window gets maximized.  annoying at first, it gets worse and worse as you try and get work done.
[20:25] <kanliot> it's a feature that should be removed from lubuntu because we aren't using the unity stuff
[20:25] <phillw> is there any way that setting up full screen on launch of apps could be integrated, or are we too late for that now?
[20:25] <gilir> kanliot, we added so people can test it :)
[20:26] <MrChrisDruif> Not current release, but I just thought about it: 10.04 was supposedly a LTS release? What needs to be done to make a dot-release for it (as I think we haven't had one in all this time)
[20:26] <leszek> hi
[20:26] <MrChrisDruif> Aloha leszek
[20:26] <kanliot> please take the maximized windows out..  it's horrible
[20:26] <gilir> phillw, I may have a solution to have an option available to swith it on or off, but it may be short in time :(
[20:26] <phillw> MrChrisDruif: we simply do not have enough people in dev to have LTS's
[20:27] <phillw> gilir: I appreciate that time is short now!
[20:27] <gilir> kanliot, you are not the only one who complain about it, we can still turn it off
[20:27] <leszek> yeah for LTS we need maintainers that want to maintain and also patch pcmanfm, lxpanel and all other packages for 5 years
[20:28] <leszek> thats a huge work
[20:28] <MrChrisDruif> phillw; a dot-release is more than packaging I understand?
[20:28] <gilir> MrChrisDruif, you mean dot-release for 10.04, or for 12.04, or both ?
[20:29] <phillw> MrChrisDruif: as 10.04 was before adoption, it was never an LTS. We want to support it, as it is the last one with the old chip-set stuff.
[20:29] <leszek> MrChrisDruif: sometimes you need to write patches or backport them, especially when a software isn't maintained in this version in upstream anymore
[20:29] <MrChrisDruif> gilir; 10.04
[20:29] <MrChrisDruif> As we've already decided that 12.04 won't be a LTS
[20:29] <gilir> MrChrisDruif, considering the horrible work we done to maintain 10.04, I'm not sure it's a good idea
[20:30] <gilir> MrChrisDruif, also, people can still install 10.04, and upgrade after
[20:31] <gilir> it's the same result than a dot-release, you just dont have ISO already updated
[20:31] <MrChrisDruif> So the work is already done, but it isn't "packaged" into a release/iso?
[20:31] <Unit193> And LX stuff may not get in.
[20:31] <phillw> gilir: I have a crazy idea, but if on installation of 10.04 as a minimal iso - would people be able to lock the kernel from exceeding their kernel limit but still get a newer lubuntu-desktop?
[20:32] <gilir> MrChrisDruif, there is no ISO yes
[20:33] <gilir> phillw, you mean to prevent the drop of the support of some CPU after 10.04 ?
[20:33] <phillw> afaik, it is the dropping of cpu support as of 10.10 that is the issue.
[20:33] <gilir> :)
[20:33] <phillw> gilir: yes.
[20:33] <leszek> phillw: hmm... an unofficial precise ISO with the 10.04 kernel ?
[20:33] <gilir> phillw, unfortunatly no, because it's not only the kernel, every packages are affected
[20:33] <phillw> leszek: a way of them getting the precise stuff, but retain their kernel.
[20:34] <gilir> it's not the same issue than PAE
[20:34] <leszek> yeah they could use the old kernel with the newer precise base, that should be possible
[20:34] <phillw> gilir: okies... I did say it was a crazy idea. :P
[20:34] <leszek> ah ok
[20:34] <leszek> I only thought about PAE
[20:34] <phillw> I was also only thinking about PAE.
[20:35] <gilir> non-PAE are available on precise, so people can still upgrade from previous release
[20:35] <leszek> ah nice :)
[20:36] <phillw> from 10.04? That would be one mass of updates to go 10.04 --> 10.10 --> 11.04 --> 11.10 --> 12.04 !
[20:36] <gilir> and about maximised by default, we can talk about it next week, and let people discuss on the mailing list about this
[20:37] <gilir> phillw, I think there is an option for 10.04 to 12.04 directly
[20:37] <gilir> any other question for devs ?
[20:37] <phillw> gilir: I think that needs a 10.04.4 - which is relased for ubuntu, kubuntu and server tomorrow.
[20:38] <gilir> #topic MrChrisDruif - Weekly report - Update from Docs team
[20:38] <wxl> gilir: is max by default now the plan??
[20:38] <wxl> (i thought it was a bug)
[20:38] <wxl> regardless of one's preference, if that's the intention, then that's fine
[20:39] <gilir> wxl, under discussion, but can be drop later
[20:39] <wxl> ok well someone intended it, so that's fine :D
[20:39] <MrChrisDruif> Various "bugs" reported and dealt with, otherwise nothing to report.
[20:39] <MrChrisDruif> Questions?
[20:40] <gilir> thanks MrChrisDruif :)
[20:40] <wxl> MrChrisDruif: the "game plan?"
[20:40] <wxl> i might have missed it; i've been very busy personally lately
[20:41] <MrChrisDruif> My personal keeps heavily interrupting any plans/time to work on anything like that.
[20:41] <wxl> MrChrisDruif: well we can discuss this afterward but i think some direction would be good for the team as a whole. if you have some like quick notes or something i could probably embellish on them and get them up somewhere.
[20:41] <MrChrisDruif> But if others from the Docs team have a great plan to implement, I'm mainly a POC (Point Of Contact)
[20:42] <MrChrisDruif> A good team leader doesn't determine the route to go, but makes sure everyone on the team is going the same direction.
[20:42] <phillw> wxl: MrChrisDruif I do have an update re: duplicated/ triplicated pages. I'll get something into a mail.
[20:43] <wxl> phillw: thx nuff sed ;)
[20:43] <MrChrisDruif> This means that if the general consensus is a certain idea, I'll try to keep everyone working on that idea
[20:43] <MrChrisDruif> wxl; sed? ;-)
[20:44] <wxl> MrChrisDruif: yeah it's direction that i'm referring to. like i wonder what the major issues are. what's the low hanging fruit, etc.?
[20:44] <wxl> MrChrisDruif: s/sed/said/ ;)
[20:45] <gilir> ok, let's continue :)
[20:46] <gilir> Yorvyk is not here, let's move the item to next week
[20:46] <MrChrisDruif> Low hanging fruit? Major obstacle is indeed the duplication and information on the wrong area (help on wiki and vice verse)
[20:46] <gilir> StephenSmally, something to say about LSC, since it's released ? :)
[20:47] <MrChrisDruif> gilir; shouldn't this be in a new topic?
[20:48] <gilir> MrChrisDruif, it was a topic last week, now I don't think there is something to say :)
[20:49] <gilir> let's move to the last item
[20:49] <gilir> #topic wxl - dependencies of lubuntu-core
[20:49] <StephenSmally> Not much to say
[20:49] <wxl> oh yeah forgot about that one
[20:49] <gilir> wxl, I finally understand what you mean about this :)
[20:49] <StephenSmally> It's out :-P
[20:50] <StephenSmally> (Anyway, no one removed the old item in the agenda about LSC, i wasn't planning to talk about)
[20:50] <wxl> gilir: i think this may be resolved if i read the mailing list correct in that it sounds like lubuntu-core is growing a bit to be a bit more "functional" and require the average user to be able to install it without having to do anything extra to get some basics going
[20:51] <gilir> wxl, to clarify, I added a depend on some common packages for desktop meta-package
[20:51] <wxl> although i think for some people it would be nice to have a totally stripped down version, but this is possible with net install, yes?
[20:51] <MrChrisDruif> You mentioned it in the mailing-list already gilir
[20:52] <gilir> wxl, yes, everything is possible with a net install :)
[20:52] <gilir> MrChrisDruif, arf, sorry, my memory is not so good today :)
[20:52] <wxl> gilir: right so we're done with this topic. MrChrisDruif/phillw -- have we already fixed the wiki on this subject?
[20:53] <MrChrisDruif> I think so, but I'll update the minimal install with links to the corresponding packages.ubuntu.com pages
[20:53] <phillw> wxl: 12.04 is not yet released, along with the three options out of the 5 that we expect people to wish to use.
[20:54] <phillw> but it is not a major re-write :)
[20:54] <wxl> phillw: ahh good point. we should put that on the todo list for later
[20:54] <wxl> or perhaps just populate the wiki with the new info (maybe at the bottom) for those that are already testing
[20:54] <MrChrisDruif> We do need to decide on which installations we might want to suggest on the minimial install page
[20:55] <phillw> MrChrisDruif: I'd go for the 3.... full desktop, core and minimal core.
[20:55] <phillw> doing a desktop with no-recoomends seems so wierd :P
[20:55] <MrChrisDruif> phillw; yeah, but I'd go for core, minimal-desktop and desktop
[20:57] <wxl> when in actuality there are 5 real options: core, minimal-core, desktop, minimal-desktop, and whatever you want with the netinstall
[20:57] <phillw> MrChrisDruif: but we can discuss the 5 available options,
[20:57] <wxl> i think we should explain them all because in reality people are giong to ask about them all at some point
[20:57] <MrChrisDruif> Yup, seems like a mailing-list topic
[20:58] <wxl> that will allow those people that aren't happy with just the standard install to just pick and choose what works for them
[20:58] <wxl> of course standard install is desktop, so why talk about it? ;)
[20:58] <gilir> we are closed to the end of the meeting, anything to add ?
[20:59] <phillw> on the areas of comms-team.... a discussion is ongoing for a re-vamp of lubuntu.net on the general mailing list. For support team, it seems to be gelling and allowing people from the various support systems chat to each other. nothing else to really report on them both that I am aware of.
[20:59] <gilir> #topic others topics
[20:59] <wxl> i will add re: comms that the facebook group is up to 52 members
[20:59] <wxl> and growing
[20:59] <wxl> discussions are active, especially with phillw's help ;)
[20:59] <Unit193> What facebook group? There's quite a few now.
[21:00] <MrChrisDruif> Lubuntu Official I think he means
[21:00] <wxl> https://www.facebook.com/groups/lubuntu.official
[21:00] <wxl> there is only "one" now
[21:00] <phillw> I'm on them all... makes little difference to me :)
[21:01] <kanliot> i talked to one of the team member doing the website.  he's doesn't knwo what is required from him
[21:01] <wxl> unlike the others, this is one that we actually have control over
[21:02] <phillw> wxl: I though lubuntu was under the control of Mario?
[21:02] <kanliot> i think the guy is frustrated that he feels that he doesnt have control
[21:02] <kanliot> i donno
[21:02] <kanliot> IMHO could be fixed easily
[21:02] <wxl> phillw: didn't think so-- from what i gathered
[21:03] <phillw> one for the mailing list :)
[21:03] <gilir> phillw, it should be
[21:03] <kanliot>  i'll bring it up onthe mailing list thnx
[21:04] <gilir> ok thanks everyone, it's time :)
[21:04] <gilir> #endmeeting
[21:04] <meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Feb 15 21:04:09 2012 UTC.
[21:04] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-15-20.03.moin.txt
[21:04] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-15-20.03.html
[21:04] <wxl> thx all
[21:04] <phillw> oh, and thanks gilir for all the late nighta
[21:04] <phillw> nights..
[21:04] <leszek> n8 @ all
[21:04] <phillw> you've really put some hours in since the house move :)
[21:04] <moergaes_> bye everybody
[23:23] <manhunter> hi
[23:23] <manhunter> anyone there?