[03:36] <Burgundavia> and those people who have them also are usually artists
[03:36] <ajmitch> Burgundavia: probably https://launchpad.net/people/loic
[03:36] <Burgundavia> ajmitch, I figure as well
[03:37] <ajmitch> archive.u.c is slow with the RC being out
[03:37] <Burgundavia> however, the stuff daniels is working with regards to input hotplug shoudl help
[03:38] <Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdgyIdeas <-- lots of developer approved crack!
[03:38] <ajmitch> developer-approved??
[03:38] <Burgundavia> mdz wrote most of it
[03:38] <ajmitch> scary
[03:39] <ajmitch> ooh, f-spot for desktop love
[03:39] <Burgundavia> http://www.porchdogsoft.com/products/howl/
[03:39] <Burgundavia> hmm
[05:15] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, mdke either of you around?
[05:16] <jsgotangco> yes i am here
[05:16] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, see the thing from Lathiat to join the doc team?
[05:16] <jsgotangco> yes
[05:18] <jsgotangco> he wants to crack on the server guide for eft
[05:18] <Burgundavia> ah, cool
[05:18] <Burgundavia> I will approve him then
[05:18] <jsgotangco> thanks
[05:18] <Burgundavia> done
[05:18] <Burgundavia> Lathiat, welcome aboard
[05:55] <Lathiat> Burgundavia: :)
[05:55] <Burgundavia> Lathiat, you see the news about HOWL?
[05:56] <Lathiat> Burgundavia: indeed
[05:57] <Burgundavia> why is it, when you need a power cord, there are none to be found, but when you don't, there are lots?
[05:57] <Madpilot> because they hide
[05:58] <Burgundavia> I just need one flipping powercord for Andrea's old box, going to turn it into a server
[05:59] <Lathiat> heh
[05:59] <Lathiat> i have a box of them
[05:59] <Lathiat> but i manage to lose it when i want them... ;)
[09:18] <mdke> Burgundavia: erm... we've been limiting granting access to that group to people we grant access to svn... I've rejected loads of people on that basis
[09:19] <mdke> I know that Lathiat is already a community contributor and all, but I don't think we should make an exception on that basis until we've seen him send some patches and stuff, like we make everyone else do
[09:19] <Burgundavia> mdke, ok
[09:19] <mdke> (no offence Lathiat, I'm really happy you've come along)
[09:20] <Burgundavia> I figured for an established figure in the community, it was not a big deal
[09:20] <Madpilot> hi mdke
[09:20] <mdke> Burgundavia: did you envisage giving immediate svn access?
[09:20] <mdke> Madpilot: hiya :)
[09:21] <Burgundavia> mdke, I didn't see any harm
[09:21] <mdke> Burgundavia: there is no harm
[09:21] <mdke> but people might get pissed off if we are inconsistent about giving svn access
[09:22] <Burgundavia> mdke, ok
[09:28] <mdke> Burgundavia: do you agree with me? I don't wanna push it on you otherwise
[09:30] <Burgundavia> mdke, no, I agree
[09:30] <Burgundavia> I did chat briefly with jsgotangco before I dove in
[09:30] <mdke> yeah I know
[09:36] <mdke> what do people think about changing the tabs to | Stable docs | Community docs | ?
[09:36] <mdke> having read what mpt said, I kinda figure it doesn't make sense to distinguish between releases and the wiki stuff, because the latter has both
[09:38] <Madpilot> having version numbers is clearer, I think
[09:38] <mdke> even though the wiki contains docs for those versions too?
[09:38] <Burgundavia> what the hell is a "stable doc"
[09:38] <Burgundavia> your average user doesn't care
[09:39] <Madpilot> besides, as someone pointed out on the ML, Dapper is going to be 'stable' for a long time - we're going to have 6.06 docs up for quite a while, alongside later 'stable' sets
[09:39] <mdke> i couldn't think of a better word which actually demonstrates the meaningful distinction between the static and wiki documents
[09:40] <Madpilot> "Community Docs" is fine for the wiki, given that the word "wiki" means zip to a lot of people
[09:40] <mdke> Madpilot: yeah, that's a good point
[09:41] <Madpilot> w/ 3 years support on the desktop, we're going to have to display 6.06 docs alongside a LOT of other sets of docs, actually.
[09:41] <mdke> you guys think that users will just automatically figure the difference between community docs and the version numbers?
[09:41] <mdke> maybe they will...
 I can't think of a way to be clearer, really. It's not perfect, but it'll have to do.
[09:42] <mdke> perhaps the only way to be clearer would be with more than one level of tabs ;)
[09:42] <mdke> ok, let's keep it as it is then
[09:43] <Madpilot> gah, they still haven't killed that giant oversized quite dialogue in Dapper RC...
[09:44] <Burgundavia> Madpilot, that will not die until after release, I think
[09:44] <Burgundavia> desrt and I were talking about it
[09:44] <Burgundavia> seems sabdfl gets one stupid idea per release and will not back down from it
[09:44] <Madpilot> wonder if I can keep Breezy's sane little logout dialogue when I dist-upgrade to Dapper? ;)
[09:45] <Burgundavia> not without patching gnome-panel
[09:45] <Madpilot> yeah, I know, but I can wish.
[09:50] <Madpilot> it occupies two or three times the screen area compared to Breezy's, but has *fewer* functions (no Save Session checkbox anymore, for example...)
[09:51] <Madpilot> however, "It's ugly" wouldn't make a good bug report ;)
[09:51] <jsgotangco> i like the colors
[09:51] <Burgundavia> I need to sleep
[09:51] <Burgundavia> Madpilot, machine is going down. YOu still doing anything?'
[09:51] <Madpilot> nope
[09:52] <Burgundavia> ok
[09:59] <robitaille> Madpilot:  you can use the default gnome logout menu instead of the ubuntu one in Dapper by changing an option with gconf-editor
[09:59] <Madpilot> robitaille, good to know, for when Dapper's oversized one gets to me ;)
[09:59] <robitaille> search for the "upstream_session" key
[10:13] <Madpilot> has anyone else noticed the item on the agenda for the next CC meeting, about the wiki licensing?
[10:22] <mdke> no
[10:23] <mdke> yeah the logout sucks
[10:36] <Madpilot> mdke, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda - only item on the agenda
[10:36] <mdke> yeah, saw it now
[10:37] <Madpilot> "screenshots of themes made outside of Ubuntu" - that strikes me as being spurious - it's just a screenshot, not the theme itself...
[10:37] <mdke> yes. but the question of whether code or artwork attached to the wiki must be public domain is a good question
[10:39] <Madpilot> code is more difficult, yeah... but do we really have that much code in the wiki?
[10:39] <mdke> dunno, potentially yeah
[10:50] <Madpilot> need sleep - later, all
[11:14] <cbx33> anyone know a good howto for setting up svn+apache
[11:14] <cbx33> with webdav
[11:15] <mdke> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SubVersion
[11:15] <cbx33> mdke: you're a star
[11:16] <cbx33> thanx bud
[11:28] <mdke> np
[11:28] <mdke> that page should clearly not have a capital V
[12:25] <cbx33> mdke: i'm having a bit of trouble with that svn howto
[12:25] <cbx33> most of it has been fine
[12:25] <cbx33> just need a little pointer.....I have successfully checked out the repo
[12:25] <cbx33> but myproblem is with commiting....I have followed your instructions, but ti's coming up with a permission denied
[12:26] <mdke> cbx33: no idea, I've never set up an svn repo. Try #svn?
[12:26] <cbx33> h rats
[12:26] <cbx33> I can;t get there right now
[12:26] <cbx33> cgi-irc
[12:26] <mdke> there are some cgi-ircs that you can use to join any channel
[12:27] <cbx33> indeed there are
[12:27] <mdke> tp://irc.sourpuss.net/irc.cgi
[12:27] <cbx33> but I have restricted mine
[12:27] <mdke> with an ht in front
[12:27] <cbx33> that site is blocked by the isp at the school
[12:27] <cbx33> grrrr
[12:27] <cbx33> hence why i use my own
[12:28] <cbx33> :S
[12:28] <mdke> ah
[12:28] <mdke> what are you setting up, out of interest?
[12:30] <cbx33> well
[12:30] <cbx33> it's an svn repository so staff at the school can access the svn repo I setup from home
[12:30] <cbx33> and from school
[12:31] <cbx33> because I can;t setup a server inside the school, as the firwall at the city won;t allow any incoming traffic
[12:32] <cbx33> i know the problem I'm having is a simple permissions problem
[12:33] <cbx33> I did these instructions
[12:33] <cbx33>    $ sudo mkdir myproject   $ sudo chown -R root:subversion myproject   $ sudo chmod -R g+rws myproject
[12:33] <cbx33> and I've been added to the subversion group...
[12:33] <cbx33> but every folder subsequent from that has permissions like so
[12:33] <cbx33> drwxr-sr-x 5 root subversion 4096 2006-05-26 11:39 db
[12:34] <cbx33> and won't let me write to it...because group write is missing
[12:35] <cbx33> does anyone have any idea what those instructions should have said
[12:35] <mdke> no idea sorry
[12:41] <cbx33> thanks anyway mdke
[01:54] <bhuvan> cbx33: you refer "server guide" documentation in your system. the wiki seem to be incorrect
[02:14] <cbx33> bhuvan: wherE?
[03:15] <cbx33> brb
[03:35] <t_z> I downloaded flight7 instead of RC by mistake. At http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/dapperrc under Installation, the "direct download" link is incorrect.
[03:37] <mdke> t_z: thanks for pointing it out, I'll check
[03:37] <t_z> mdke: np
[03:38] <mdke> t_z: no, it's the right link
[03:38] <mdke> http://releases.ubuntu.com/6.06/
[03:39] <t_z> For me"direct download" it links to http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/dapper/ which has flight7/ dir only.
[03:39] <mdke> erm, well now it looks right
[03:39] <mdke> are you sure?
[03:40] <mdke> oh, my bad
[03:41] <mdke> t_z: yeah was looking at the wrong link. Fixed now, thanks
[03:42] <t_z> mdke: confirmed fixed. thanks.
[05:05] <mdke> mgalvin: those picasa links are not found
[05:06] <mgalvin> yea, highvoltage said the same but they work for here for me... grr lemme see whats going on
[05:07] <mdke> i can't find any mention on linux on the site, it just says "linux is not supported"
[05:07] <mgalvin> bah, i have the package here :)
[05:09] <mgalvin> so http://picasa.google.com/linux/
[05:10] <mgalvin> doesn't work at all for you
[05:10] <mdke> that's correct
[05:10] <dsas> 404s for me too
[05:10] <mdke> must be some fault on their side with a pool or servers or whatever
[05:10] <mdke> *of
[05:10] <mgalvin> dsas are you also in uk?
[05:10] <dsas> yep
[05:11] <mgalvin> hmm
[05:11] <LaserJock> works for me
[05:11] <mgalvin> works from here in the us but not from the uk it seems :-/
[05:11] <mgalvin> well, i guess i will just add a note to the post about that
[05:12] <mdke> no worries, it will probably sync up eventually
[05:12] <mgalvin> yea
[05:12] <dsas> I can read it using links on a US based computer :)
[05:13] <jeffsch> i'm in vancouver and get 404
[05:17] <mgalvin> oh well, i added a note
[05:18] <mgalvin> i put it here if you guys want to grab it
[05:18] <mgalvin> http://people.simplifiedcomplexity.com/~mgalvin/downloads/picasa_2.2.2820-5_i386.deb
[05:18] <mgalvin> its 21M
[05:18] <mgalvin> (might be a little slow)
[05:20] <jeffsch> interesting.... google search of picasa_2.2.2820-5_i386.deb turns up no matches
[05:21] <jeffsch> you'd think it would show up somewhere
[05:21] <LaserJock> mgalvin: hehe, the MOTU in me wants to ask you for the source package ;-)
[05:21] <mgalvin> haha :)
[05:22] <jeffsch> LaserJock: i have a motu question...
[05:22] <jeffsch> ubuntu follows lsb, right?
[05:22] <LaserJock> probably when we want to ;-)
[05:23] <jeffsch> when you are packaging an app that does not follow lsb, do you convert it, or just let it be?
[05:23] <LaserJock> it sort of depends on the maintainer, we would usually encourage the authors to do it right
[05:23] <LaserJock> but often we do "tweak" things
[05:24] <jeffsch> do you document those tweaks?
[05:25] <LaserJock> jeffsch: yes, a source package consists of the original tarball from the authors and then a diff that has all the changes we make
[05:25] <LaserJock> and a .dsc file that holds md5sums, etc.
[05:25] <jeffsch> what about the binary package?
[05:27] <LaserJock> I don't think so other than what is in the changelog
[05:27] <jeffsch> k
[05:28] <LaserJock> does that answer your question sufficently?
[05:28] <jeffsch> yes
[05:29] <jeffsch> it's just that for some apps (none come to mind), once you apt-get install, you have to know how to find the config files, etc etc
[05:30] <jeffsch> because the documentation on the app website says it's in one place
[05:30] <jeffsch> but the package puts it in another
[05:30] <jeffsch> i assumed it was because of lsb compliance
[05:31] <LaserJock> probably
[05:31] <LaserJock> but I think I've seen more of authors not putting things where they say they are and the packagers fixing it ;-)
[05:32] <jeffsch> that's probably true too... the docs tend to be a version or two behind the times....
[05:33] <jeffsch> apache2 docs, for eg
[05:35] <jeffsch> the *label* says version 2, but they often refer to httpd.conf instead of the newer files (sites-enabled/default, etc)
[05:35] <mdke> ouch
[05:35] <LaserJock> but yeah, I had to fix a package that hard coded the docs to /usr/share/<package>/docs when we usually do /usr/share/docs/<package>
[05:36] <LaserJock> if I remember right I uploaded a fix for something similar in iptables
[05:37] <LaserJock> but that kind of thing is why Ubuntu rocks hard core and the devs don't get any sleep :-)
[06:45] <Burgwork> anybody know what "Landscape client" is?
[06:51] <robotgeek> nope
[06:51] <robotgeek> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2006-May/006299.html , what can i do?
[06:52] <robotgeek> i guess nothing much till i come back on monday, later
[07:00] <mdke> robotgeek: yeah, _always_ use the entity
[07:01] <mdke> oh, wrong mail
[07:03] <Burgwork> LaserJock, you around?
[08:15] <LaserJock> Burgwork: yep
[08:16] <jjesse> LaserJock: thanks for comitting the change for me.. can you make sure it goes in trunk as well as branches?
[08:16] <LaserJock> jjesse: what change?
[08:16] <jjesse> oh shoot that was robotgeek
[08:16] <jjesse> sorry bout that
[08:17] <jjesse> for some reason i always get the two of you confused
[08:17] <LaserJock> hehe, np. I just wondered what I was doing
[08:17] <LaserJock> robot:laser , geek:jock
[08:17] <LaserJock> I can see it
[08:17] <mdke> GeekJock
[08:17] <mdke> nice
[08:17] <jjesse> gren
[08:17] <jjesse> gin
[08:18] <jsgotangco> heh the picasa on linux runs on its own wine libs
[08:18] <mdke> third time lucky
[08:18] <jjesse> grin
[08:18] <LaserJock> mdke: my mom sometimes teases me and calls me a geek god (play on greek god I guess)
[08:19] <mdke> heh
[08:19] <LaserJock> that was when I had the "magic" touch with computers
[08:19] <jjesse> does that mean you no longer have the magic touch ?
[08:20] <LaserJock> when I was younger, it seemed like my presence in a room would make computer problems disappear
[08:20] <LaserJock> today I know too much and now I'm dangerous
[08:20] <jjesse> ah i have that same aura sometimes :)
[08:20] <jsgotangco> my wife hides her macbook from me
[08:20] <LaserJock> there for a while it was really creepy
[08:21] <LaserJock> jsgotangco: because you will break it or because you will never give it back?
[08:21] <jsgotangco> i am very obsessed with it
[08:22] <jsgotangco> she makes sure she locks it up in her private closet before we sleep
[08:22] <jsgotangco> im not kidding
[08:23] <LaserJock> my wife told me to divorce her laptop :-)
[08:24] <LaserJock> Dapper has to be released soon, it might be "Choose between me and Ubuntu" and I don't want to have to make that kind of decision ;-)
[08:24] <Burgwork> LaserJock, might you be looking for a new wife?
[08:26] <LaserJock> Burgwork: no, no. but Ubuntu would be verrrry hard to give up
[08:26] <Burgwork> LaserJock, hmm, indeed
[08:26] <Burgwork> I am single now, but my last gf was very supportive of my work with Ubuntu
[08:26] <LaserJock> but everyone needs a vice, right?
[08:26] <Burgwork> although she also did not let me touch her iBook
[08:27] <LaserJock> I don't drink, or smoke, or anything so.. I think Ubuntu can be my vice :-)
[08:28] <LaserJock> well, my wife hates computer and really isn't fond of Linux because it is what I'm doing all the time when she wants me to help around the house, etc.
[08:28] <LaserJock> but she does hate MS so that is good :-)
[08:30] <jsgotangco> it doesnt really matter much to my wife as long sa her web apps work
[08:30] <jjesse> as long as my wife can check her webmail and "chat" on her forums she is happy
[08:32] <LaserJock> it isn't so much using Linux as the fact that I'm always using Linux :-)
[08:32] <LaserJock> she doesn't like TV or technology much in general
[08:33] <LaserJock> it is one area that we are really different
[08:37] <jsgotangco> my wife is more into phones
[08:40] <LaserJock> my wife is into crafts and cooking :-)
[08:41] <crimsun> my thinkpad .. oh, wives. nevermind.
[08:41] <Burgwork> crimsun, indeed. These old married farts
[08:42] <jsgotangco> bug off, my 4 year old already knows what ubuntu looks like
[08:42] <LaserJock> hehe, yes I'm sooo old
[08:42] <Burgwork> LaserJock, how old are you?
[08:42] <crimsun> fogey
[08:42] <LaserJock> Burgwork: 24 and I've been married for almost 5
[08:42] <jsgotangco> 24? seriously?
[08:43] <Burgwork> married since 19? you are nuts
[08:43] <LaserJock> that was my senior year of undergrad
[08:43] <Burgwork> if all goes well, I will be at Ubucon on the 24th birthday
[08:43] <jsgotangco> how big would that be?
[08:44] <crimsun> geez, youngun.
[08:44] <LaserJock> I got married, a bunch of people in my family died :(, and then we were off to grad school, all in 9 months
[08:44] <LaserJock> it was sort of crazy
[08:44] <jjesse> wow i feel old at 28 :)
[08:44] <crimsun> jjesse: fogey
[08:44] <LaserJock> jjesse: my wife is 27 :-)
[08:44] <jsgotangco> meh im probably the oldest fart here
[08:44] <Burgwork> jjesse, don't worry, jsgotangco has got us all beat
[08:44] <LaserJock> crimsun: how much of a fogey are you?
[08:44] <crimsun> I'm 27.
[08:44] <jjesse> seriously?  jsgotangco how old are u?
[08:44] <jsgotangco> 31
[08:45] <crimsun> lamont's 40ish
[08:45] <jjesse> hmmm not too much older :)
[08:45] <jjesse> and how old is mdke
[08:45] <jsgotangco> oh he's just a kid
[08:45] <LaserJock> crimsun: how long have you been teaching?
[08:45] <crimsun> 3 years
[08:45] <LaserJock> cool
[08:46] <LaserJock> hopefully I'll have my PhD when I'm 25 and then I can start teaching
[08:46] <dsas> I wonder if I'm the youngest?
[08:46] <crimsun> run away, dude. run very far away. :-)
[08:47] <LaserJock> hehe, I'm thinking about it, but there aren't a lot of industrial jobs for Physical Chemists
[08:47] <LaserJock> the NSA hires quite a few though :-)
[08:47] <crimsun> yes, yes they do.
[08:47] <jjesse> you can then listen in to all of our phones calls while at the NSA
[08:47] <LaserJock> muahhahaha
[08:47] <crimsun> you won't touch that side of the NSA
[08:48] <crimsun> that's all sigint
[08:48] <LaserJock> no, but Physical chemists are usually pretty ok with computers and electronics
[08:48] <mdke> i'm 24
[08:48] <LaserJock> a grad student in my lab did a lot of image analysis for his PhD
[08:48] <crimsun> LaserJock: right, but you won't even be allowed in that section
[08:48] <LaserJock> and they sort of wanted him
[08:48] <jjesse> mdke: no offense but you come across as older
[08:48] <mdke> thanks
[08:48] <Burgwork> LaserJock, did you see my /query ?
[08:50] <crimsun> jjesse: there's a fairly bad misconception of the NSA thanks to what has been happening lately. Actually very few sigints are involved in listening, as it's all tools. :-)
[08:52] <jjesse> crimsun: i personall don't view that what is going on itsn't the worst thing that can be done.  the idea seems like a good idea to me
[08:52] <jjesse> i want persue it any more
[08:54] <jsgotangco> ciao good night
[08:54] <jjesse> good nigt jsgotangco
[10:19] <mdke> mgalvin: links work here now
[10:19] <mgalvin> mdke: ah cool, thanks, i will remove the note then
[10:36] <mdke> resetting the firmware on the ipod
[10:36] <LaserJock> that's sort of funny
[10:37] <LaserJock> Going from Linux, into Windows, to update an Apple iPod :-)
[10:37] <mdke> aw heck
[10:37] <mdke> let's try this rockbox lark
[10:38] <mdke> i can't face rebooting into Windows
[10:42] <LaserJock> yeah, I don't dual boot very well
[10:42] <LaserJock> I have to just have Linux or just have Windows
[10:43] <mdke> i kept windows because Canonical insisted on it but I never use it except for formatting my ipod
[10:43] <mdke> I can't do anything on it
[10:43] <LaserJock> lol, that's like my boss. I watching him try to set up a printer once in Windows
[10:43] <LaserJock> it was pretty funny
[10:43] <mdke> stupid thing can't even print
[10:43] <mdke> argh, why did I press return
[10:44] <mdke> I seriously couldn't get it to print to the network printer at the office
[10:44] <LaserJock> yeah, I have a similar experience here in the lab
[10:44] <mdke> I think it wanted me to log in with the same username as my network username
[10:45] <LaserJock> we have a HP Color LaserJet with the JetDirect card
[10:45] <LaserJock> Ubuntu takes about 20 s to setup, all I have to do is tell it the name
[10:45] <mdke> even less here, cups just detects them automatically
[10:45] <LaserJock> in Windows you have to go through this long install process, etc. because it doesn't do it "Out of the Box"
[10:46] <LaserJock> ah, well we don't do stuff like that because then other groups will use our printer ;-)
[10:46] <mdke> thankfully then run a linux print server at the office :)
[10:47] <mdke> with samba/cups
[10:47] <mdke> ah crap
[10:48] <mdke> the partition table is all screwed up
[11:34] <mdke> man this rockbox business is GREAT
[11:34] <mdke> I'll never boot into Windows again
[11:35] <Burgwork> mdke, uhh, what are you using rockbox for?
[11:35] <mdke> my ipod
[11:35] <Burgwork> ah
[11:36] <mdke> my ipod now supports ogg
[11:36] <mdke> I need some oggs
[11:36] <LaserJock> it does?
[11:36] <LaserJock> how cool
[11:36] <mdke> i need to test it, but it says it does
[11:36] <mdke> if it does, I'll try and convert all my mp3s
[11:37] <dsas> doesn't rockbox zap battery life or something?
[11:38] <Burgwork> mdke, I wouldn't convert mp3's
[11:38] <mdke> dsas: you mean per recharge, or in general?
[11:38] <Burgwork> lossy to lossy is a bad idea
[11:38] <dsas> mdke: Per recharge, sure I read something about it recently.
[11:38] <mdke> Burgwork: meh... I'll just have to rerip as much as possible then
[11:38] <mdke> dsas: well, that's likely yeah. As long as it isn't damaging the battery I don't mind
[11:42] <LaserJock> mdke: I converted some high quality mp3s and I couldn't notice a difference really, but I listen to the radio alot so...
[11:42] <mdke> I will try and see
[11:42] <mdke> how's it done?
[11:44] <LaserJock> I think there are some mp32ogg apps out there, I think I found one on the forums last time I tried way back when
[11:54] <mdke> ogg works nicely
[11:55] <LaserJock> converted?
[11:55] <LaserJock> or reripped?
[11:56] <mdke> i mean, it works on the ipod
[11:56] <mdke> (ripped)
[12:16] <mdke> robotgeek, anyone else with l33t scripting skilz: ping?
[12:18] <LaserJock> hehe
[12:19] <LaserJock> how easy is it? Bash or Python or ...
[12:20] <mdke> no idea
[12:20] <mdke> looks pretty easy
[12:22] <mdke> LaserJock: you wanna give it a go?
[12:23] <LaserJock> I can at least look at it and see if it is in the realm of possibility :-)
[12:23] <mdke> ok
[12:23] <mdke> go to branches/dapper/kubuntu/
[12:23] <LaserJock> k
[12:23] <mdke> have a look at khelpdesktop/kubuntu/aboutkubuntu.desktop
[12:24] <mdke> we need that translated
[12:24] <mdke> potentially, the string can come from the xml file
[12:24] <mdke> (the title)
[12:25] <LaserJock> so you want to fill in the .desktop from the XML translations?
[12:25] <mdke> that's it
[12:26] <mdke> the Name[xyz]  bit can come from the directories under aboutkubuntu/ and the string from the title of the xml translation
[12:27] <mdke> or, we can do some by hand
[12:28] <LaserJock> I wouldn't think a script would be too hard
[01:42] <crimsun> that's totally a python job
[01:42] <LaserJock> crimsun: yeah, I suppose. I'm doing it in bash ATM
[01:42] <crimsun> yeah, you certainly can do it in bash
[01:43] <LaserJock> I'm probably more comfortable with Python
[01:43] <LaserJock> in some ways
[01:51] <LaserJock> mdke: ping?
[01:52] <mdke> LaserJock: yo
[01:54] <LaserJock> mdke: this is probably terrible shell scripting but it seems to work http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/14699
[01:54] <LaserJock> mdke: I just ran that in the folder with the .desktops
[01:54] <LaserJock> crimsun could probably thrash it pretty good :-)
[01:54] <mdke> LaserJock: dude, as long as it works
[01:55] <mdke> will it work for the other guides too, you think?
[01:55] <LaserJock> yeah, as long as you adjust it properly
[01:56] <mdke> does it work?
[01:56] <LaserJock> for about kubuntu?
[01:56] <LaserJock> it looks good to me
[01:57] <mdke> LaserJock: ok, would you run the script, and upload the changes?
[01:57] <LaserJock> what do you want it done on? all the .desktops in there?
[01:58] <mdke> yes, although you'll need a different script for each, I guess
[01:58] <mdke> similar though
[04:24] <Burgundavia> <IP_ADDRESS> Madpilot
[04:25] <Madpilot> works
[04:25] <Burgundavia> can you get me some content now?
[04:25] <Burgundavia> in fact, you can do that
[04:25] <Madpilot> not instantly, but in a few hours, yes
[04:26] <Burgundavia> sounds good
[04:26] <Madpilot> I can fire up a plain placeholder page in about half an hour, though
[04:26] <Burgundavia> sounds good
[04:26] <Burgundavia> dns is not yet turned over
[04:28] <Madpilot> OK
[04:28] <Burgundavia> hey ghee22
[04:28] <Madpilot> got it mounted in Naut too now
[04:28] <Burgundavia> here is the skinny on the quicktour
[04:28] <ghee22> hey burgundavia
[04:28] <Burgundavia> I produced that doc, along with other people, as part of the breezy cycle
[04:29] <Burgundavia> it has not been updated and is now gone
[04:29] <ghee22> oof
[04:29] <Burgundavia> however, content from that has morphed into https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website/Desktop
[04:29] <Burgundavia> that page will eventually move to ubuntu.com/desktop
[04:29] <ghee22> well, here's what I have to offer.  I have checked out the links on the quicktourdraft wiki page and emailed all those links' authors for permission to use their stuff
[04:30] <Burgundavia> what do you want it for, again?
[04:30] <ghee22> I'm the duede working on the Ubuntu Welcome Center as part of Google's SoC
[04:30] <Burgundavia> welcome center?
[04:31] <Burgundavia> got a link to the proposal?
[04:31] <ghee22> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ubuntu_Welcome_Center
[04:31] <ghee22> the proposal is copied into there
[04:32] <Burgundavia> did I not see screenshots floating about?
[04:33] <ghee22> I don't have any yet.  I'm drafting the screenshots this week
[04:33] <Burgundavia> I saw some sort of help/welcome center screenshots
[04:33] <ghee22> on the proposal?  where did you see these
[04:33] <Burgundavia> could be, but the proposal is down now
[04:34] <Burgundavia> ghee22, do you mind if I play devils advocate for a bit here?
[04:34] <ghee22> ok...
[04:34] <Burgundavia> I am a little concerned about the focus
[04:35] <Burgundavia> I like the idea, in general but am deeply concerned it can go astray really quickly
[04:35] <Burgundavia> the quicktour was designed as a marketing document, not a help one
[04:35] <Burgundavia> the weclome center, imho, should be the latter, not the former
[04:36] <ghee22> I see where you are going with this.  The direction of where the content should push the user is different
[04:36] <ghee22> quicktour:  get ubuntu.   welcome center:  how to use ubuntu
[04:36] <Burgundavia> yep
[04:36] <Burgundavia> well, quicktour is dead, but yes
[04:36] <ghee22> but the apps in the content is very similar
[04:36] <ghee22> openoffice
[04:36] <ghee22> firefox
[04:36] <Burgundavia> but the writing is very very different
[04:37] <Burgundavia> they already have Ubuntu
[04:37] <ghee22> Yes, you are absolutely correct.  Let's look at the proposal. "A GUI application that assist the user with the application that he will be using in GNOME, and the capabilities of Ubuntu. The application must be attractive and easy to use for new users to easily adopt in Ubuntu."  I'm definitely not planning on copying and pasting
[04:38] <ghee22> would you like me to email you my
[04:38] <Burgundavia> ok, just chcking
[04:38] <ghee22> proposal
[04:38] <Burgundavia> sure
[04:38] <Burgundavia> the wiki one lacks a clear roadmap, imho
[04:38] <ghee22> first of all, and I don't mean this in an accusatory tone, are you an Ubuntu volunteer/employee
[04:38] <Burgundavia> volunteer
[04:38] <ghee22> I'd just like to see who's opinion I'm taking.
[04:38] <ghee22> ok
[04:39] <ghee22> are you on planet
[04:39] <Burgundavia> I have been with the doc team since Dec 2004
[04:39] <ghee22> burger
[04:39] <Burgundavia> yep, Corey Burger
[04:39] <Burgundavia> Madpilot is my older brother and my first successful Ubuntu conversion
[04:39] <ghee22> ok great!  now I your opinions have much more "fruit" behind it than a some joe schmoe who joined the irc channel
[04:39] <ghee22> (kind of like me right now...)
[04:40] <Burgundavia> https://launchpad.net/people/corey.burger
[04:40] <ghee22> getting proposal
[04:41] <Burgundavia> I also sell desktop Linux on a daily basis, so I am getting a fair idea of what startles people and what doesn't
[04:41] <theCore> "my first successful Ubuntu conversion", that have a religious *dang* to me :)
[04:41] <ghee22> ok... so copy into here?  I don't see your email addy in your profile..
[04:41] <Burgundavia> ghee22<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[04:41] <theCore> s/have/has
[04:41] <Burgundavia> theCore, and the good Lord said you shalt have Ubuntu and it was good :)
[04:42] <theCore> hehe :)
[04:43] <ghee22> done burg
[04:43] <Madpilot> theCore, hardly - my XP install melted down, and I called him up and offered beer in exchange for a working system ;)
[04:45] <Madpilot> a six-pack later, I had one, and it was brown :)
[04:45] <Burgundavia> needly to say, I wasn't very keen on fixing his XP install
[04:45] <theCore> ROFL!
[04:46] <theCore> that the way to convert someone :D
[04:47] <Burgundavia> ghee22, can you copy a lot of that proposal onto the wiki page
[04:47] <Burgundavia> it answers a lot of my questions
[04:47] <Burgundavia> but it does bring up another one
[04:47] <Burgundavia> who is going to create the content?
[04:48] <Burgundavia> that will overlap with the docteams work a great deal
[04:48] <theCore> I think I got a good idea for new guide : "The Ubuntu Productivity Guide"
[04:48] <ghee22> surely, I'm really new at this spec stuff...  I guess I am.  I've created a lot of in the proposal.  Should I put it in implementation?
[04:48] <Burgundavia> yep
[04:49] <Burgundavia> theCore, step 1: apt-get remove xchat xchat-gnome
[04:49] <theCore> :'(
[04:50] <Madpilot> Burgundavia, also apt-get remove gaim irssi, just to be complete ;)
[04:50] <Madpilot> hi jsgotangco
[04:50] <Burgundavia> salut jsgotangco
[04:50] <jsgotangco> hi!
[04:50] <Burgundavia> ghee22, I would use this overall ui of 6.25 in this doc http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gup/hig/2.0/controls-notebooks.html
[04:51] <Burgundavia> ghee22, and then I would make it so that the welcome center is merely links into existing docs
[04:52] <theCore> jsgotangco: I'm just wandering, are you the owner of that URL: http://people.debian.org/~jerome/ ?
[04:52] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, we are discussing https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ubuntu_Welcome_Center
[04:52] <Burgundavia> theCore, seriously, what is your plan for a productivity guide?
[04:52] <jsgotangco> theCore: no that's not me
[04:52] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia: that got in to SoC no?
[04:52] <theCore> jsgotangco: ah, ok
[04:52] <Burgundavia> it did
[04:53] <Burgundavia> ghee22 is going to be writing it
[04:53] <jsgotangco> who's mentoring?
[04:54] <Burgundavia> no idea
[04:57] <theCore> Burgundavia: well, I would like to deliver all the Tips & Tricks from the old Desktop guide to this guide in more structured way. Plus, some tips on how to spend less time administrating the system, how to learn touch-typing, how to use /your-app-here/ efficiently,
[04:58] <theCore> etc
[04:58] <Burgundavia> not sure that is entirely useful, tbh
[04:58] <Burgundavia> at least, as one giant doc
[04:58] <Madpilot> theCore, that's a fairly sprawling mandate for one doc, isn't it?
[04:59] <theCore> Madpilot: yeah, it would be interesting
[04:59] <theCore> Madpilot: but a huge work to do
[04:59] <Burgundavia> theCore, it would be better to do that a number of smaller doc
[05:00] <Madpilot> most of the old Tip & Tricks chapter in the Ubuntu DG has been parceled out across the rest of the guide
[05:00] <Burgundavia> plus, tbh, our job is to figure out how to write less
[05:00] <ghee22> sorry for delay, brb in 5
[05:00] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia: its not in the google site for ubuntu
[05:01] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, I don't see it either. I might be mistaken
[05:03] <Burgundavia> either way, ghee22 sounds keen and we should work with him to produce something stellar
[05:05] <ghee22> stellar we want, stellar it is  :o)
[05:05] <ghee22> I'm starting to understand why everyone says Ubuntu helpers gives warm welcomes to all
[05:05] <Burgundavia> absolutely. Me playing devils advocate is all about getting the best, nothing to do with the creator
[05:06] <Madpilot> ghee22, are you on the docteam mailing list yet?
[05:06] <ghee22> jsgotangco, Simon Law is mentoring me
[05:06] <jsgotangco> oh great
[05:06] <ghee22> Madpilot, no, not yet.  starting to join right now... googling it
[05:06] <Burgundavia> lists.ubuntu.com
[05:06] <ghee22> got it
[05:06] <Madpilot> ghee22, wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam
[05:08] <ghee22> madpilot, ok I'm subscribed
[05:12] <Laser_away> hi ghee22
[05:24] <ghee22> hi laserjock
[06:14] <jsgotangco> grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
[06:15] <theCore> bonsoir LaserJock
[06:15] <LaserJock> jsgotangco: ? that doesn't sound good
[06:15] <Burgundavia> jsgAWAY, hmm?
[06:15] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, rather
[06:15] <jsgotangco> CAN ANYONE GIVE JOEL BRYAN A PIECE OF ADVICE NOT TO CROSS POST I GIVE UP
[06:16] <Burgundavia> clue bat?
[06:16] <jsgotangco> if he goes to our local release party i will chew him
[06:16] <jsgotangco> (he is a local here)
[06:16] <Burgundavia> he didn't cross post this time
[06:16] <Burgundavia> oh, wait
[06:17] <LaserJock> I sort of have a mental Ignore feature that he has been added to :/
[06:19] <Burgundavia> salut robitaille
[06:19] <Burgundavia> LaserJock, it is too bad, because he is actually not a total loss
[06:21] <jsgotangco> some of his ideas are good, but it seems he is trying to catch attention
[06:21] <robitaille> Hi Burgundavia
[06:21] <jsgotangco> he asked via email an hour ago what is a sounder list then he just CC
[06:21] <jsgotangco> 'ed sounder as well
[06:23] <LaserJock> Burgundavia: I agree
[06:45] <ghee22> what is cross posting
[06:45] <ghee22> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross_post  nevermind
[06:49] <LaserJock> hmm, I just noticed that Nautilus doesn't do the spatial browsing thing
[06:49] <Burgundavia> that has been the default since breezy
[06:50] <jsgotangco> can anyone confirm in g-a-i after installing an application the OK button is not clickable
[06:50] <LaserJock> wow, shows how much I've used GUI file browsers
[06:51] <Madpilot> jsgotangco, Dapper or Breezy?
[06:51] <jsgotangco> Dapper
[06:51] <Madpilot> still running Breezy here
[06:51] <LaserJock> ouch :-)
[06:52] <Burgundavia> I haven't switched this machine yhet
[06:52] <Burgundavia> mgalvin, I have an idea for you
[06:52] <mgalvin> hi by the way ;)
[06:53] <Burgundavia> hey
[06:53] <Burgundavia> mark got a bug in his hat about newletters from edubuntu, kubuntu and ubuntu
[06:53] <Burgundavia> afaik, nobody has stepped forward for ubuntu
[06:54] <mgalvin> i would certainly like to take on the task
[06:54] <mgalvin> (if that is what you are getting at)
[06:54] <Burgundavia> basically
[06:54] <LaserJock> jsgotangco: that is Add/Remove Applications?
[06:54] <jsgotangco> LaserJock: yes
[06:55] <mgalvin> Burgundavia: who is doing the edubuntu and kubuntu letters?
[06:55] <LaserJock> jsgotangco: it worked fine here
[06:55] <jsgotangco> LaserJock: thanks (it happens in edubuntu)
[06:55] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco for edubuntu and riddell for kubuntu
[06:56] <mgalvin> ok cool, is there any plans or any specifics mark has in mind yet?
[06:57] <Burgundavia> I just saw an email on the edubuntu list
[06:57] <Burgundavia> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-devel/2006-May/001454.html
[06:58] <mgalvin> i gotta sign back up for that list
[06:59] <mgalvin> i got off some of the b/c i was swamped with thousands of emails a day
[06:59] <LaserJock> Burgundavia: I think pygi is also going to work on it
[06:59] <Burgundavia> LaserJock, oh
[06:59] <Burgundavia> ?]
[06:59] <LaserJock> and perhaps cbx33 as he wants to be involved in everything
[07:00] <mgalvin> i'll reply to that thread in a sec... seems a natural progression for me since i have been keeping on top of everything for those tours
[07:00] <mgalvin> LaserJock: they are looking to do the ubuntu letter?
[07:01] <mgalvin> i'll try and catch up with them and see if i can help out if they have already started anything
[07:02] <LaserJock> mgalvin: no edubuntu
[07:03] <mgalvin> ah ok
[07:11] <LaserJock> jsgotangco: actually with g-a-i the ok button isn't greyed out, it just doesn't do anything :(
[07:11] <mgalvin> so if i just reply to that thread with the same subject will mailman keep the thread together? (i don't have the original email to reply to)
[07:13] <rob> is it me or do the example chapters completely overlap with the guides (in particular the Desktop Guide)?
[07:13] <Burgundavia> rob, yep, they do
[07:15] <rob> in fact if I didn't know better I could have sworn I was reading the Desktop Guide when I was checking them out earlier
[07:19] <LaserJock> well, at least it's consistent then
[07:19] <Burgundavia> jono is a good writer and you are likely looking at his chapters
[07:20] <rob> yes, there are three (one is Kubuntu)
[07:21] <jsgotangco> ?
[07:21] <jsgotangco> sorry i was fixing our toilet
[07:21] <mgalvin> what fun
[07:21] <jsgotangco> mgalvin: yeah i just saw our water bill shoot up
[07:22] <rob> jsgotangco, for us you'll need to open them in Konqueror from /usr/share/example-content
[07:22] <jsgotangco> the culprit is the toilet
[07:23] <jsgotangco> edubuntu doesn't have the book
[07:24] <jsgotangco> (we
[07:24] <rob> I have to wonder why it wasn't just taken from the Desktop Guide in the first place
[07:24] <jsgotangco> (we're fighting for space by the kb)
[07:25] <LaserJock> The Desktop Guide wasn't finished when they were writing the book was it?
[07:25] <Burgundavia> LaserJock, sort of
[07:25] <Burgundavia> the book was designed as a standalone book
[07:25] <rob> so, why duplicate the effort?
[07:25] <Burgundavia> because the licenses it was released under are a sideeffect, unlike our stuff
[07:26] <rob> when is it going to be relicenced?
[07:26] <Burgundavia> it was built as a book and it happens to be under a free license, so here we are
[07:26] <Burgundavia> bits of it already are
[07:26] <Burgundavia> the rest when the book releases in Aug
[07:27] <rob> kind of seems silly to me, did the publisher not want any one reading it before it was released?
[07:27] <Burgundavia> umm, I don't understand what you are saying
[07:27] <LaserJock> most publishers don't I don't think
[07:27] <Burgundavia> you are reading it right now, before it has been released
[07:27] <Burgundavia> we passed off the last reviews last week
[07:29] <rob> I guess what I'm saying is why didn't the doc team itself just write the book in a separate repo or some such thing?
[07:30] <rob> we basically have had two separate doc teams for dapper in the end, once the book is "opened up"
[07:30] <rob> seems like a waste to me
[07:30] <jsgotangco> :) its too late to rant rob
[07:31] <LaserJock> because the publisher approached authors, and when it is done we can use it so it so I don't see the two doc teams then
[07:31] <rob> jsgotangco, we never had the chance..
[07:31] <rob> LaserJock, right, hence there has been a lot of time wasted on both sides of the fence
[07:31] <rob> duplicating effort
[07:31] <Burgundavia> rob, prentice hall approached canonical who suggested authors, which included me
[07:32] <Burgundavia> prentice hall is taking a large risk by doing this
[07:32] <LaserJock> rob: perhaps, but it is going to be a whole lot less than normally published books
[07:32] <Burgundavia> be happy they decided to take the risk
[07:32] <LaserJock> it is amazing that it will have a compatible license that will allow us to use the material
[07:32] <Burgundavia> yes it is not optimal, but still
[07:32] <rob> I'm not worried at all about prentice hall, they are a business and are free to do what they want
[07:33] <rob> I think the doc team got screwed in all of this
[07:33] <Burgundavia> rob, that is a very negative attitude
[07:33] <Burgundavia> would you rather we got no book?
[07:33] <rob> Burgundavia, easy for you to say
[07:33] <LaserJock> prentice hall didn't ask the doc team, it is really that simple
[07:33] <Burgundavia> why? because I wrote part of it?
[07:33] <rob> I don't really care if we didn't, eventually we would anyway
[07:34] <Burgundavia> writing a book is very hard
[07:34] <jsgotangco> yes
[07:34] <Burgundavia> ask any of myself, jsgotangco, mgalvin, jeffsch
[07:34] <rob> if I had docbook xml versions of both the book and the desktop guide I could mix and match with them almost without care
[07:35] <rob> its a duplication of effort, which is just silly
[07:35] <Burgundavia> I would say it is an order of magnitude harder than docs, due to all the careful checking you have to do
[07:35] <Burgundavia> you have the words, turning them into XML is not hard
[07:35] <jsgotangco> external reviewers can be really harsh sometimes
[07:35] <jsgotangco> but then they are paid to do it
[07:35] <Burgundavia> they were pretty kind to me
[07:35] <rob> Burgundavia, that's crud, if the Desktop Guide was published properly it would go though the same checking, thats why you have editors who proof read etc
[07:36] <Burgundavia> the desktop guide would need major expansion
[07:36] <jsgotangco> yeah
[07:36] <jsgotangco> i agree on that
[07:36] <rob> sigh, thanks for the screw job guys
[07:36] <Burgundavia> there was no screw job
[07:37] <jsgotangco> rob, this is nothing personal but you've been trolling for quite some time now
[07:37] <LaserJock> and nobody here was doing it even if there was, that would be Prentice Hall and they actually are doing a lot less "screwing" than other publishers would
[07:37] <rob> jsgotangco, because I haven't been happy about the arrangement from the get go, the doc team was never consulted regarding this book
[07:37] <Burgundavia> because sometimes you need to get things done
[07:37] <rob> to me, thats just plain rude and inconsiderate
[07:38] <Burgundavia> look at the art team
[07:38] <Burgundavia> or for that matter, the lulu matter
[07:38] <rob> lulu != publishing an official book
[07:38] <LaserJock> rob: I had the same concerns but I have seen where 2 doc team members were authors and it was review by other doc team members
[07:38] <jsgotangco> i was asked to review it but i declined
[07:38] <LaserJock> I don't think we got "screwed"
[07:39] <Burgundavia> rob, I was more referring to the discussion over it
[07:39] <jsgotangco> we've discussed this matter before
[07:39] <jsgotangco> although none came out of it
[07:39] <LaserJock> rob: just because the publisher doesn't want their work-in-progress spread all over public forums and you and I weren't involved doesn't mean the doc team got screwed, really
[07:40] <rob> all it would have taken is for someone to officially approach the entire doc team and offer the chance to participate
[07:40] <mgalvin> i can certainly say there was not screwing involved, and yes, publishing a real book is magnitudes harder than doc team work
[07:41] <rob> even if most of us would have turned it down, the consideration and respect would have been nice
[07:41] <mgalvin> the truth of the matter is publishers are in it for the business and its not a very public matter until it is done
[07:41] <jsgotangco> we even tried to do the docbook route but it was counter-productive
[07:41] <Burgundavia> rob, then who do you approach?
[07:41] <dsas> jsgotangco: Out of interest, what did you write the book in?
[07:42] <rob> it doesn't have to be public, you guys left out several more active members of the doc team writing the docs
[07:42] <jsgotangco> dsas: im writing for another publisher along with mgalvin and jeffsch
[07:42] <Burgundavia> dsas, the official book was written in OpenOffice, with word templates
[07:42] <LaserJock> rob: who?
[07:42] <jsgotangco> dsas: sorry errr
[07:42] <jsgotangco> dsas: openoffice
[07:42] <rob> Burgundavia, an email to the list would have sufficed
[07:42] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco's book is written in docbook in svn, if I remember correctly
[07:42] <jsgotangco> dsas: the word templates are a necessary evil to publishing
[07:42] <ghee22> question:  do you guys have a separate email address for the mailing lists?
[07:42] <Burgundavia> what could we do?
[07:42] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia: we ditched the docbook but still use svn
[07:43] <LaserJock> ghee22: how do you mean?
[07:43] <Burgundavia> wait on the official book to deliver?
[07:43] <dsas> ah ok, I'd heard that some writers for other oss projects were made to use word by their publishers. Just curious.
[07:43] <jsgotangco> dsas: yes that's correct
[07:43] <jsgotangco> dsas: because the templates are then passed to framemaker
[07:43] <LaserJock> dsas: all my real life writing is done in LaTeX
[07:43] <Madpilot> ghee22, not personally, I use my main personal address for everything
[07:43] <jsgotangco> even o'reiley does that if you look at their colophon
[07:44] <ghee22> madpilot:  ok thanks.
[07:44] <jsgotangco> the layout people are probably the final frontier for full open source publishing
[07:44] <mgalvin> rob: you were involved as i remember so i don't understand why you feel so left out (early on as a matter of fact)
[07:45] <ghee22> laserjock:  I mean have a special email address for just these ubuntu mailing lists
[07:45] <rob> mgalvin, no I wasn't
[07:45] <mgalvin> i have your review email of the ToC
[07:45] <Madpilot> jsgotangco, lots of brand loyalty in the graphics community, mostly to Adobe ;)
[07:45] <jsgotangco> yep
[07:45] <jsgotangco> we can't address that yet
[07:46] <jsgotangco> its pretty much de facto
[07:49] <Burgundavia> well, I need to go on a munchie run
[07:49] <Burgundavia> back in a bit
[07:50] <jsgotangco> brb going to concentrate further
[08:47] <poningru> Madpilot: s/adobe/macrodobe
[08:47] <jsgotangco> lol
[08:47] <Madpilot> good point
[08:47] <Madpilot> ;)
[08:48] <poningru> :)
[08:48] <poningru> quick question anyone know who evan dandrea is on irc?
[08:48] <poningru> I wanted to get involved in his/her soc project
[08:49] <ajmitch> what soc project is that one?
[08:49] <poningru> the migration one
[08:50] <ajmitch> that tells me nothing
[08:50] <poningru> err hold on
[08:50] <dsas> poningru: have you tried asking in #soc or something?
[08:51] <dsas> i'm not sure if that's the correct channel name, but there is one
[08:51] <dsas> ajmitch: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MigrationAssistance
[08:51] <poningru> yeah thats it
[08:51] <Burgundavia> #soc is a gimp.net thing
[08:52] <poningru> also
[08:52] <poningru> http://riva.ucam.org/~cjwatson/blog/2006/05/26#2006-05-25-gsoc-ubiquity-migration-started
[08:53] <ajmitch> could be useful
[08:53] <poningru> #soc seems to be registered by cc people
[08:55] <ajmitch> aw, mithrandir hasn't blogged about mentoring me yet ;)
[08:56] <poningru> watchu workin on?
[08:56] <ajmitch> network auth
[08:56] <ajmitch> of course he doesn't exactly have much to write about
[08:58] <poningru> network auth? link?
[08:58] <ajmitch> NetworkAuthentication on wiki
[08:58] <mgalvin> night all
[08:59] <ajmitch> will update it soon with info about the server side of things
[09:01] <poningru> ah nice
[09:01] <poningru> yeah I would love to get involved in that... there is a argument at my uni regarding AD vs. ldap/kereberos
[09:01] <poningru> etc.
[09:02] <Burgundavia> ajmitch, what are the rules this year with regards to other people helping you?
[09:02] <ajmitch> Burgundavia: I'll have to check
[09:03] <poningru> wait what does that mean?
[09:03] <ajmitch> we're meant to do our own work
[09:03] <poningru> ouch
[09:03] <ajmitch> but it's hard not to work with others
[10:09] <Laser_away> mdke: ping?
[10:09] <Laser_away> mdke: I made an improved python script, I will commit translated .desktop files tomorrow
[10:19] <jsgotangco> hmm why is there 4 kinds of gstreamer-ugly
[10:19] <Madpilot> too much ugly for one package?
[10:20] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, should only be two multiverse and universe
[10:20] <Burgundavia> anybody know where I can find an 80x15 free software button?
[10:21] <jsgotangco> ahh its doc and for gdb
[10:21] <Madpilot> there are several 80x15 images generators on the web, if you can't find a ready made one
[10:21] <jsgotangco> what's the multiverse variant?
[10:21] <Burgundavia> -multiverse
[10:21] <jsgotangco> yes i mean what's the difference between -ugly
[10:22] <Burgundavia> there should be -ugly and -ugly-multiverse
[10:23] <jsgotangco> err yes what i mean exactly is what does -ugly-multiverse have that -ugly doesn't
[10:23] <Burgundavia> ah, more codecs that cannot be shipped as part of unvierse
[10:24] <Burgundavia> you would have to ask slomo for the exact breakdown
[10:24] <Burgundavia> there are basically no docs on this, quite annoying
[10:24] <jsgotangco> i only see gstlame
[10:27] <Burgundavia> hmm, no idea
[10:29] <Burgundavia> you know, I could kiss Scott Robinson right now
[10:31] <ajmitch> heh
[10:31] <ajmitch> surely UI freeze doesn't matter up until the minute before release?
[10:31] <ajmitch> great, launchpad is dead. again
[10:32] <Burgundavia> right
[10:32] <Burgundavia> so much for Mark's word at UBZ
[10:37] <Burgundavia> night all
[10:56] <dsas> the IdeaPool wiki page is just so frustrating, half of it is misplaced bug reports, some of the reset are dupes, and there's no way of 'replying' to people who's filed an idea.
[10:56] <Madpilot> there's probably some actual good ideas buried in there somewhere, but good luck finding them...
[10:58] <dsas> Probably, there is. I may just delete all the ones that I know have bugs filed.
[10:58] <dsas> people try to use it for a discussion too - see the viruses bit.
[11:08] <dsas> heh, or I would but I forgot about the LP problems.
[11:09] <ajmitch> sometimes a wiki page is just the worst place for that sort of thing
[11:22] <Madpilot> s/sometimes/usually. Even Mediawiki's Discuss pages get messy
[12:54] <mdke> Laser_away: thanks so much!
[01:31] <glatzor> hi mdke. you plan to update the translations of the manuals on http://help.ubuntu.com/6.06/ although we are already after the docu translation freeze?
[01:33] <mdke> glatzor: The freeze applies to the release. After the release I hope to be updating the translation of the packages and the website at the same time
[01:34] <glatzor> mdke: in which time frame? I have to plan my commitments for the next days :)
[01:35] <mdke> glatzor: I don't really know. Probably 2 weeks after release? after that maybe monthly?
[01:36] <glatzor> ok. so no urgent task for me:)
[01:36] <mdke> glatzor: ok. Does that sound sensible to you?
[01:38] <glatzor> mdke: I don't know how many translated strings are waiting in rosetta.
[01:38] <mdke> nor do I
[01:38] <mdke> I took them last week
[01:40] <glatzor> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+source/ubuntu-docs/+pots/desktopguide
[01:41] <glatzor> looks good. many are completely translated now.
[01:41] <mdke> yep, kubuntu needs some love though
[01:41] <mdke> and xubuntu
[02:31] <jsgotangco> ciao have a good weekend all
[02:44] <glatzor> mdke: is there a way to create a local html or pdf version of a translated documentation? it would make reviewing a lot easier.
[02:48] <mdke> glatzor: from the po file, or the xml file?
[02:48] <glatzor> po file
[02:48] <mdke> glatzor: you have to convert it into the separate xml files using the english version. See translate.sh in our repo
[02:49] <glatzor> mdke: where can I find your repo?
[02:49] <glatzor> you are using po2xml?
[02:50] <mdke> https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/branches/dapper
[02:50] <mdke> no, we use xml2po
[02:50] <mdke> :)
[02:50] <glatzor> :)
[02:51] <mdke> so for example, this one is for the ubuntu desktop guide: https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/branches/dapper/ubuntu/desktopguide/translate.sh
[02:51] <glatzor> thanks
[02:51] <glatzor> still on svn? :)
[02:51] <mdke> looks like it
[02:52] <mdke> Powered by Subversion version 1.2.0 (r14790).
[02:52] <glatzor> you should use bzr :)
[02:53] <mdke> glatzor: we've been discussing it quite a lot. So far I don't think we've found a good reason to use it
[03:16] <glatzor> mdke: may I ask you why you don't use <guibutton> or <guilabel> instead of <filename> in the desktop guide?
[03:17] <mdke> glatzor: we use all of those. If there is a specific example where it is used wrongly, that is accidental
[03:17] <glatzor> "Optionsthatyouclick,select,orchooseinauserinterfacewillbeshown
[03:17] <glatzor> in<filename>monospace</filename>type."
[03:17] <glatzor> it's in the conventions chapter
[03:17] <mdke> that is certainly wrong
[03:21] <glatzor> is there a product in launchpad for the guides?
[03:21] <mdke> yes, ubuntu-doc
[03:22] <glatzor> I am going to fill a bug
[03:22] <glatzor> report
[03:23] <mdke> thanks
[03:23] <mdke> it is present in every guide we have
[03:30] <glatzor> mdke: do you use the gnome doc style guide as a reference?
[03:42] <mdke> glatzor: roughly, we have our own styleguide though.
[04:02] <glatzor> mdke: a public one? where can i find it?
[04:03] <mdke> glatzor: http://doc.ubuntu.com
[04:44] <sto6ma9ch> Hi! I'd like to help out the DocTeam, but I'm not too sure where to start. I saw that some work needed to be done on firewall configurations.
[04:48] <glatzor> sto6ma9ch: hi. what do you want to contribute? you already have got a vague idea?
[04:49] <sto6ma9ch> I'd like to help in the server area, but right now I'm just trying to see what really needs to be done. I have started learning the XML layout by examining the current svn stuff.
[05:39] <sto6ma9ch> Does anybody have a suggestion regarding on what project to start?
[05:40] <mdke> hi sto6ma9ch
[05:40] <mdke> we're in a bit of a limbo state right now, because we're just coming to the end of a release cycle
[05:40] <mdke> we need to sort out our plans and ideas for the next release, then work can begin
[05:41] <jsgotangco> hey
[05:42] <sto6ma9ch> Ah, makes sense.
[05:42] <mdke> sto6ma9ch: the server guide is certainly going to need lots of work, but we need to focus on how to go about it first
[05:42] <mdke> hi jsgotangco
[05:42] <jsgotangco> mdke: yup i agree
[05:43] <sto6ma9ch> Are there any RSS feeds for Ubuntu DocTeam news or is the mailing list the preferred method of staying in touch?
[05:43] <mdke> yep, mailing list
[05:51] <sto6ma9ch> Sorry about all of the questions: when is the next meeting? The Wiki shows it as March 31.
[05:52] <jsgotangco> we haven't been meeting much lately when the freeze started
[05:59] <Laser_away> mdke: ping
[06:04] <mdke> Laser_away: hello
[06:05] <Laser_away> mdke: is there a rush on the .desktop files?
[06:06] <Laser_away> I almost have a script that will update .desktops with the translated strings
[06:06] <mdke> Laser_away: the sooner we have them, the more chance of getting them into dapper I suppose
[06:06] <Laser_away> but I need tor drive to my Grandpa's this morning before I can finish it. It should be done in less then 5-6 hrs I'd guess
[06:07] <Laser_away> ist that ok?
[06:07] <mdke> Laser_away: of course! You're doing the kde users a big favour :)
[06:12] <jsgotangco> you probably got 2 days till the image is frozen
[06:13] <Laser_away> alright, I'm about to dive over (2hrs, \o/), I'll see you guys later
[06:14] <Laser_away> *drive :-)
[06:14] <mdke> cya matey
[06:14] <mdke> thanks again
[06:28] <glatzor> mdke: hm. the german translation of the desktop guide is in a quite questionable state. so i would like to see updates as soon as possible.
[06:34] <Laser_away> mdke: what time is it there?
[06:36] <Laser_away> mdke: nvm, google will know :-)
[06:59] <sto6ma9ch> Anybody use an SVN GUI? Any recommendations?
[07:01] <jsgotangco> esvn
[11:35] <mdke> wtf
[11:35] <mdke> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HowTo
[11:36] <crimsun> mdke: ?
[11:36] <mdke> i find that an odd page
[11:36] <crimsun> it's fairly self-explanatory to those of us in the know, yes, but I don't see anything "wrong" per se with it
[11:38] <mdke> there should be no such thing as a howto, IMO
[11:38] <crimsun> ok, what's your rationale/approach?
[11:40] <mdke> whenever I see a site which structures its documents according to how long they are, I know that I'm not going to be able to find what I'm looking for
[11:40] <mdke>  * Howtos
[11:40] <mdke>  * Tips and Tricks
[11:40] <mdke>  * Manuals
[11:40] <mdke> it's all information, and should be structured according to subject matter
[11:41] <mdke> there's no rational dividing line between them anyhow
[11:41] <crimsun> ok, I can see that. Would you drop the Howto moniker from wiki pages, then?
[11:41] <mdke> absolutely
[11:41] <mdke> it doesn't add anything
[11:42] <crimsun> ok, I can see that, too
[11:42] <mdke> I've got to "H" in my survey of documents in the wiki, so it's hurting
[11:43] <crimsun> well, one of the problems is that people normally look to best practices, which currently stands at using said moniker
[11:44] <mdke> does it say that?
[11:44] <crimsun> I'm drawing from online documentation, the vast majority of which has some blather of Howtos
[11:45] <mdke> ah yeah
[11:47] <mdke> this is an awesome page name
[11:47] <mdke> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/InputMethods/SCIM/CJK_Chinese_Japanese_Korean_Input_Method_configuration_using_SCIM_in_Ubuntu_6%2e06_Dapper_Drake?highlight=%28CategoryDocumentation%29
[11:48] <crimsun> wow, that makes my eyes bleed ;-)
[11:58] <LaserJock> hehe
[12:01] <mdke> ok, I just noticed there are 6 or so guides to xgl
[12:01] <mdke> so I went into #ubuntu-xgl and asked if they'd be interested in working on them to merge/integrate them
[12:01] <mdke> so they promptly suggested starting another wiki at compiz.net and writing a new guide
[12:01] <mdke> my god
[12:05] <crimsun> so mdke, why don't you write a howto for cleaning up the wiki?
[12:05] <mdke> yeah
[12:10] <mdke> ok, they are listening to reason
[12:10] <mdke> phew


[01:17] <guiverc> when i/you change Monitor.Settings (display orientation, portait, position..) where is it saved?..  I just did a 19.04 install & first login has displays as I want;  I didn't reformat /home (is that why?)
[01:43] <kc2bez> guiverc: Yes, it is saved in `$HOME/.config/lxqt/lxqt-config-monitor.conf`
[01:45] <guiverc> thanks kc2bez (i was just stunned by change; did a number of installs yesterday & didn't notice that; must have changed settings after last install of day causing today's wtf)
 Hey there! I had cloned lubuntu-default-settings to work on the mimeapps.list (T2) but it's closed saying its done. But no offence, still whenever I try to open images in my 19.04 install, they open in firefox. 🤷🏻♂
[06:21] <kc2bez> @The_LoudSpeaker I think you are looking for T3 https://phab.lubuntu.me/T3
 Oops! Now I got it. The resolved task I was talking about was T6. And yeah I am working on T3. Sorry my bad.
 @kc2bez [<kc2bez> @The_LoudSpeaker I think you are looking for T3 https://phab.lubuntu.me …], So can you please check my comment on T3 and help?
 I can send you a pm tomorrow. I am heading to bed now.
 Okay. I will be waiting.
[07:42] <guiverc> 19.04 checklist install (https://phab.lubuntu.me/w/release-team/testing-checklist/?v=13) - i just had a FAIL on "Full disk install with encryption on a EFI system without secure boot" , tsimonq2 indicated this may be expected (yesterday when I had issue on BIOS) ...  If anyone knows lp.bug.report I'd appreciate knowing it...
[07:44] <guiverc> (Simon I sure hope I didn't just make your term beep/ding...)
[12:26] <kc2bez> guiverc: I think there is a lp bug but I can't find it right off. Here is the upstream bug report https://github.com/calamares/calamares/issues/1083 amd our own task https://phab.lubuntu.me/T2
 Hey! @tsimonq2 @wxl can anyone shed some light on T3? Please check my comment there and tell me if I got it right. TIA
 @The_LoudSpeaker [Hey! @tsimonq2 @wxl can anyone shed some light on T3? Please check my comment th …], I did a comment
 Yup! reading it rn
 Do I have to take the mimeapps.list from 18.04 installation or from the git repo of lubuntu-default-settings (18.04) ?
 the git repo is ok
 First to be sure that in 19.04 we have all the mimetypes covered
 Then we decide with what we will cover them.
 @HMollerCl [First to be sure that in 19.04 we have all the mimetypes covered], How do we go about that?
 look at mimeapps.list in 18,04 and in current (19,04)
 @HMollerCl [look at mimeapps.list in 18,04 and in current (19,04)], Okay!
[18:20] <lynorian> I think writing documenation you find typos in menus so much more easily
 No doubt. You glance over things when you are just using the menus.
 Plus it is always easier to spot someone else's typos than your own.
[18:22] <lynorian> wxl View --> Layout --> One At Time is something I can't unsee now
[18:22] <lynorian> I know
[18:22] <lynorian> that is in trojita
[18:56]  * lynorian files a bug https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=406055
 why in some .desktop they put "_Name=xxx" instead of "Name=xxx"?
 I mean, what is the use of the underscore
 ?
[19:18] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rMANUALe80c771ab29e: Add mark as read to trojita] lynorian (Lyn Perrine) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rMANUALe80c771ab29e
[19:18] <tsimonq2> YES
[19:19] <lynorian> yay that sound
[19:19] <tsimonq2> It's running on my server for now because I have to work with teward on some container stuff
[19:19] <tsimonq2> But it's progress
 \o/
 @HMollerCl [why in some .desktop they put "_Name=xxx" instead of "Name=xxx"?], Translations
[19:20] <Eickmeyer> Congrats on Lugito's revival!
[19:21] <tsimonq2> Thanks!
[19:34] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T15: Fix software-properties-qt under other DEs] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) just created this task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T15
[19:42] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T16: Configure OEM] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) just created this task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T16
[19:43] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T17: Write a Welcome Center] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) just created this task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T17
[19:45] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T18: Implement Guest Sessions in SDDM] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) just created this task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T18
[19:47] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T19: Task Manager Global Menu Plugin] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) just created this task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T19
[19:48] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T20: Package sddm-config-editor] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) just created this task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T20
[19:49] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T21: Our xscreensaver theme is too old] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) just created this task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T21
[19:50] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T22: Bring those swaps back] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) just created this task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T22
[19:51] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T23: hardinfo replacement] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) just created this task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T23
[19:52] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T24: Captive Portal Support] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) just created this task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T24
[19:52] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T25: Make Calamares work well with smaller screens] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) just created this task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T25
[19:53] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T26: Define and Implement Default Settings for Touchpad] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) just created this task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T26
[19:53] <tsimonq2> lynorian: What was "sha256 as default hash"?
[19:54] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T27: Get Raspberry Pi images on the official infrastructure] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) just created this task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T27
[19:54] <lynorian> I think that should be done and finished in the manual which linked to something showing sha256  as default hash as so many confusing info with md5 saying it is insecure now on something we linked to
[19:56] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T28: Implement a menu for quicklaunch rather than requiring a mouse drag to add items] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) just created this task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T28
[19:56] <tsimonq2> wxl: What was "remove fcitx-ui-qimpanel"?
[19:57] <tsimonq2> lynorian: Ok, wanna do that then? :)
[19:58] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T29: Native nm-tray connection editor] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) just created this task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T29
[19:58] <lynorian> I think it is finsihed
[19:58] <tsimonq2> ok
[20:00] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T29: Native nm-tray connection editor] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) commented on the task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T29#281
[20:02] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T30: Theme GRUB] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) just created this task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T30
[20:03] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T31: LXQt Profiling Support] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) just created this task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T31
[20:05] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T32: Make checksum verification automatic] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) just created this task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T32
[20:06] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T33: HiDPI Support] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) just created this task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T33
 @HMollerCl "libreoffice-kde5 doesn't add file extensions automatically" what was the status on this?
[20:07] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T34: Smart package removal] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) just created this task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T34
[20:09] <tsimonq2> Alright, so I think I have most of the "block out the sun" tasks ready to go.
[20:09] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T35: Ubuntu SSO for Phab] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) just created this task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T35
[20:23] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rPPABRITNEY5152f2cec2bc: Don't hardcode the PPA name.] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rPPABRITNEY5152f2cec2bc
[20:28] <wxl[m]> @tsimonq2 something like this if I remember right https://github.com/linuxmint/mintlocale/issues/61
[20:28] <tsimonq2> ack
 @tsimonq2 [@HMollerCl "libreoffice-kde5 doesn't add file extensions automatically" what was …], We need to look every now and the in libreoffice-qt become stable to use it. In the meantime it's better to use libreoffice-gtk, so we need to remove libreoffice-kde from seed.
 ok
[20:34] <wxl[m]> @TheLoudSpeaker look what I found https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lubuntu-default-settings/+bug/1769420
[20:36] <tsimonq2> I'm close to getting Britney set up again for Jenkins.
[20:36] <tsimonq2> I'm planning on doing some slight refactoring, which will allow us to run Jenkins with more than just the CI PPAs.
[20:37] <kc2bez> Thanks wxl[m], I will put a link in the task.
[20:37] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T3: Provide complete mimeapps.list] kc2bez (Dan Simmons) commented on the task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T3#331
[20:49] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rPPABRITNEY4fb6d26bc67b: Be more specific with the output directory.] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rPPABRITNEY4fb6d26bc67b
[21:04] <tsimonq2> Sweet, now Britney runs once every four hours.
[21:30] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T22: Bring those swaps back] kc2bez (Dan Simmons) commented on the task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T22#333
[21:39] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rCI7d3aa8f9ae43: Create CI branches if they don't already exist.] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rCI7d3aa8f9ae43
[21:43] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T22: Bring those swaps back] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) commented on the task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T22#334
[21:43] <tsimonq2> kc2bez: Do you want me to assign https://phab.lubuntu.me/T22 to you?
[21:43] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Medium, Open] Bring those swaps back: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T22
[21:48] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T22: Bring those swaps back] kc2bez (Dan Simmons) commented on the task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T22#335
[21:50] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T22: Bring those swaps back] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) commented on the task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T22#336
[22:16] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rPPABRITNEY8e1671d90d4b: Implement removal support.] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rPPABRITNEY8e1671d90d4b
[22:23] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rPPABRITNEYa2e93a13d58b: Make sure the removal packages aren't mistakenly treated as arguments.] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rPPABRITNEYa2e93a13d58b
[22:23] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T22: Bring those swaps back] kc2bez (Dan Simmons) commented on the task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T22#337
[22:24] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T22: Bring those swaps back] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) commented on the task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T22#338
[22:28] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T36: Fix full disk encryption on BIOS systems.] kc2bez (Dan Simmons) just created this task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T36
[22:42] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rPPABRITNEY74e9399ee118: Only act on sources.] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rPPABRITNEY74e9399ee118
[22:43] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rPPABRITNEYc0dc52c451d8: Correct syntax error.] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rPPABRITNEYc0dc52c451d8
[22:55] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rPAVUCONTROLQTPACKAGING8a17a9539008: Lubuntuify the package.] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rPAVUCONTROLQTPACKAGING8a17a9539008
[23:03] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rLUGITOac7b470dbcce: Remove run_lugito, which is the old script.] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rLUGITOac7b470dbcce
[23:37] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T22: Bring those swaps back] kc2bez (Dan Simmons) commented on the task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T22#348


[01:02] <cmaloney> http://openmetalcast.com/2017/01/16/open-metalcast-episode-146-jump-in-anytime/
[19:11] <cmaloney> morning / afternoon
[19:12] <shakes808> afternoon
[19:14] <greg-g> yo
[19:21] <wolfger> afternoon/evening
[19:21] <wolfger> and ugh
[19:25] <rick_h> afternoon
[19:25] <rick_h> and double ugh
[19:26] <wolfger> I swear, somebody is intentionally making my life miserable today. "OK, we don't need to make very many transmissions today. This guy is clearly hovering around here wanting to see the machines run... let's wait until he leaves!"
 Wait until he leaves again!"
[19:32] <shakes808> wolfger: what kind of work do you do where you can't do your job if someone is watching?
[19:33] <wolfger> LOL
[19:34] <wolfger> I can do my job just fine regardless of people watching... as long as they run the machines to make the transmissions.
[19:35] <wolfger> I stand out there for 90-150 minutes at a time just watching the machine that isn't running... soon as I get tired of waiting and head back to my desk, they start running it.
[19:35] <cmaloney> Schroedinger's Plant
[19:35] <wolfger> I see on the software that it running, I go back out, they stop running it before I can finish doing what I need to do
[19:36] <_stink__> cmaloney++
[19:36] <wolfger> Call me crazy, but doesn't a transmission plant need to actually manufacture some transmissions?
[19:36] <cmaloney> wolfger: We're in a post-manufacturing society
[19:36] <wolfger> :-p
[19:36] <cmaloney> we just need the intention to make transmissions
[19:36] <wolfger> LOL
[19:37] <wolfger> OK, it's still running, so I guess I'll make the long walk back out there again....
[19:37] <cmaloney> Make sure nobody sees you
[19:53] <wolfger> They see me. :-(
[19:53] <wolfger> Well, last time I got half way finished before they could stop, so maybe I can get the other half done
[20:00] <cmaloney> heh
[20:08] <wolfger> ...
[20:09] <wolfger> last machine on my list: faulted. All the machines running except that one

[20:17] <cmaloney> heh


[01:17] <crimsun> bjf: please bump alsa-driver-cod-karmic.git for -20.33 in -updates
[01:31] <bjf> crimsun, sorry I missed that, will do
[01:31] <crimsun> bjf: rockin', thanks!
[01:32] <bjf> crimsun, give me a sec and I'll submit a new build
[01:36] <mozmck> I keep getting 4 off these errors: drivers/usb/core/hcd.c:144: error: expected expression before '>>' token
[01:36] <mozmck> all in hcd.c  when compiling karmic kernel from git.
[01:37] <mozmck> anyone seen this before?
[01:38] <JFo> mozmck, google is your friend
[01:39] <mozmck> couldn't find anything on it.
[01:39] <JFo> looks like a gcc issue maybe
[01:41] <JFo> hmmm, or perhaps something to do with how you are compiling it
[01:46] <mozmck> I don't know.  The time it worked I applied the patch I needed on master and compiled using "skipabi=true skipmodule=true no_dumpfile=true fdr binary-rtai"
[01:46] <mozmck> Then I created a flavour for my changes and did the same and I get the errors
[01:47] <mozmck> basically used the howto here http://blog.avirtualhome.com/2009/11/03/how-to-compile-a-kernel-for-ubuntu-karmic/
[02:57] <mozmck> ok, I don't get the error it seems if I don't try to make my own flavour
[02:58] <mozmck> when I try to install the headers package, it says I need linux-headers-2.6.31-21, which was not created.  how do I get this?
[03:01] <mozmck> forget that, I didn't run binary-indep :(
[14:26] <cnd> apw, I know this is hitting late, but do you have any thoughts on making hid a module?
[14:27] <apw> we need to review the generall building in policy.  i hope to upload drm today, then we'll have a window monday to review that and make changes in time for thursday
[14:28] <cnd> apw, sounds good
[14:28] <cnd> apw, also, looks like 2.6.33 fixes some nvidia (binary) driver issues
[14:28] <cnd> hopefully .33 drm contains the fix :)
[14:28] <apw> but yes its all getting squeeky tight round here
[14:29] <cnd> apw, if there's anything I can look at to help you out, let me know
[14:29] <cnd> I'm just browsing bugs
[14:29] <apw> cnd, wouldn't expect it to, drm is not used for nvidia binary driver as far as i know
[14:29] <cnd> apw, I can still hope can't I?
[14:29] <apw> heh you can ...
[14:29] <cnd> either way, I directed them to the red ppa
[14:29] <apw> just don't bet any actual cash on it
[14:29] <apw> cnd good plan
[14:30] <cnd> and we can do some git bisecting to figure it out otherwise
[14:30] <cnd> always better to have upstream work than have only a regression from a previous release
[14:32] <apw> rtg some nice shiney new nvidia drivers just hit the archive
[14:32] <apw> cnd, may be of interest to you too
[14:33] <tgardner> apw, cool. I hope screen save starts working again
[14:33] <cnd> apw, rtg, they've been using them already I believe
[14:33] <cnd> these are the bugs where they still fail to resume in lucid (even after the chvt fix), and graphics corruption after resume
[14:34] <apw> oh where didi you get them from
[14:34] <cnd> I'm guessing they got them from nvidia
[14:35] <cnd> yep, looks like they got them directly from nvidia
[14:35] <cnd> they were perusing the changelogs to see if there was anything of note
[14:47] <tgardner> apw, do these KVM patches on the k-t list fix the regression that you and smb were looking at yesterday?
[14:47] <tgardner> the one kirkland was on about
[14:48] <smb> tgardner, Probably not. That was fixed by reverting another patch
[14:48] <apw> tgardner, the Pause-Loop ones?
[14:48] <apw> those are enablement
[14:48] <tgardner> apw, yeah, the pause-loop ones
[14:48] <tgardner> k
[14:49] <apw> and unrelated, i've reverted all the kvm ones in the security block till that is resolved
[14:49] <tgardner> k, I saw those and wondered
[14:49] <cnd> apw, where are manjo's suspend timing patches?
[14:49] <cnd> in a lucid kernel yet?
[14:50] <apw> in the next one i think
[14:50] <cnd> are they in a kernel ppa I can point someone at to test with?
[14:51] <JFo> probably his personal one
[14:51] <apw> cnd check the changelog for red, i think they are in there
[14:52] <cnd> apw, ok
[14:52] <apw> [15232.884115] PM: late suspend of drv:uhci_hcd dev:0000:00:1d.3 complete after 1000.073 msecs
[14:52] <apw> [15233.884098] PM: late suspend of drv:uhci_hcd dev:0000:00:1d.0 complete after 999.593 msecs
[14:52] <apw> ...
[14:52] <apw> [15234.680342] PM: resume of drv:i915 dev:0000:00:02.0 complete after 191.423 msecs
[14:52] <apw> even seems to work!
[14:53] <cnd> apw, yep, they're there
[14:53] <apw> cnd, thats a 'red' kernel so it must be there
[14:56] <cnd> has there been any thought as to pushing manjo's patch upstream?
[14:59] <apw> i've cleaned it up a lot, and likely whats there is upstreamable
[14:59] <apw> we have a bunch in there that i'll remind people about after freeze, i have a few myself
[15:00] <cnd> apw, ok
[15:00] <cnd> is this the general way things are done, get patches into ubuntu before freeze, then upstream them after when we have more bandwidth?
[15:00] <tgardner> cnd, not really, but we're in a time crunch right now.
[15:01] <cnd> tgardner: so we usually try to upstream in line with adding them to the kernel, but near freeze that may get delayed?
[15:01] <tgardner> cnd, exactly
[15:01] <cnd> ok
[15:02] <tgardner> cnd, for the simple reason that patches do not usually make it through the upstream review process intact, so its  management hassle to revert an old patch, then apply the new one.
[15:02] <cnd> yeah
[15:27] <amitk> apw: what are you planning on for making HID a module? (Re: MultiTouchScreen Support thread)
[15:28] <tgardner> amitk, we'll review it monday
[15:29] <amitk> ack
[15:31] <apw> perhaps we should have a mini-meeting on that subject monday ... and chose the things we thing arn't needed
[16:10] <mozmck> is there a document showing how to create a new kernel flavour for karmic?
[16:41] <manjo> mozmck, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/KernelMaintenanceStarter
[16:45] <apw> mozmck, there was a new one added to lucid fairly recently which might help you get the right files
[16:58] <mozmck> apw: a new flavour?
[17:08] <tgardner> apw, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/531981/comments/6
[17:08] <ubot3> Malone bug 531981 in ubuntu "[MIR] linux-qcm-msm" [Undecided,Fix committed]
[17:09] <apw> yeha i see it has been approved, though still awaits someone to actually do it
[17:10] <tgardner> apw, I'll see about annoying the archive admin du jour
[17:48] <manjo> apw, after an upgrade on my MIni10V booting up with out splash works, but with splash it boots to a black screen with grabage chars on it
[17:50] <apw> manjo, which upgrade
[17:50] <manjo> apt-get distupgrade
[17:50] <apw> may be 'luck' you may n
[17:50] <apw> need to test it a few times
[17:50] <apw> mine is current as of a hour ago and boots ok
[17:55] <manjo> apw, are you running red on your 10v ?
[17:55] <apw> i am yes
[17:55] <manjo> s**t
[17:55] <apw> though i have just booted to -15 and that works too
[17:55] <manjo> 32-16 ?
[17:56] <manjo> works for you ?
[18:07] <manjo> apw, I just emailed you a screen shot of what it looks like when it boots
[18:12] <manjo> apw, ok I found another thing ... while its booting if I press the shift key when it displays the splash screen it boots to gdm
[18:12] <manjo> apw, otherwise I get what I showed you in the mail
[18:13] <tgardner> manjo, have you tried removing plymouth to see if its causal?
[18:13] <apw> manjo, i see that about one in 10, and suspect plymouth racyness
[18:13] <apw> hitting ctrl i think did it for me
[18:14] <manjo> apw, also hitting enter on that blank screen also launched gdm
[18:14] <manjo> tgardner, definitely looks like plymoth
[18:14] <manjo> tgardner, removing splash it boots ok
[18:16] <tgardner> manjo, I've found tat it really sucks to have nVidia and plymouth
[18:16] <manjo> tgardner, but this is on intel unfortunately
[18:16] <tgardner> ah, that sucks even more since it _should_ work
[18:16] <apw> faster machines hit it i think
[18:17] <apw> we know there are plymouth issues outstanding
[18:18]  * manjo is not digging the new color scheme either .. turned his windows purple
[18:19]  * manjo does hates that fact that all the buttons 0 - X are now on the left ..
[18:20] <cnd> what's the best way to do a git bisect on a mainline kernel?
[18:20] <bjf> manjo, which theme are you using, I'm using "Ambiance" and the buttons are on the right
[18:20] <manjo> bjf, did you upgrade today ?
[18:21] <cnd> is there some sort of debianized way of doing them?
[18:21] <bjf> manjo, yes
[18:21] <manjo> you probbly asked it to keep the original gnome cof
[18:21] <manjo> conf
[18:21] <manjo> I asked it to replace it
[18:22] <bjf> manjo, no they were on the left and now are on the right, I'll update again
[18:23] <tgardner> cnd, likely the easiest way is to just copy a prepared config, then build the normal way.
[18:26]  * manjo out for lunch & phy therapy
[18:28] <bjf> manjo, mine flipped back to the left again
[18:28] <bjf> I guess the design team thinks they work for apple
[18:35] <cnd> tgardner: is there anything special I need to do about an initramfs though?
[18:35]  * cnd is used to doing everything manually ala gentoo
[18:37] <tgardner> cnd, dunno, I've not done much outside of the debian way lately. you may be veering into uncharted waters.
[18:38] <cnd> tgardner: hrm... well, I'll try stuff out and update wikis if needed
[18:46] <cnd> tgardner: I should have looked on the wiki earlier, I think everything I need is there
[18:52] <tgardner> apw, I'm working on an LBM firmware borkage, so don't go uploading it over the weekend before I push a patch.
[18:54] <apw> tgardner, ok ... i was literally just about to drop it in the queue
[18:54] <apw> i think we'll do another upload on tuesday for the HID etc changes so it could go in with those
[18:55] <apw> i'll hold it for now anyhow, so get it to me as soon as you can as i'll be watching the upload over the weekend as it builds
[18:55] <tgardner> apw, somehow we lost the iwlwifi firmware bits. still investigating.
[18:55] <apw> probabally my fault when i updated wireless to the 2.6.33 bits
[18:56] <tgardner> apw, i dunno, the firmware stuff should be version independent
[18:56] <apw> but if it was in the wireless directory i may have stamped on it by accident
[18:56] <tgardner> apw, no, the bits are in the firmware directory, so no clobber there
[18:57] <apw> fair enough
[18:57] <tgardner> apw, ah, here is the issue: /lib/firmware/2.6.32-15-generic
[18:57] <tgardner> they should go into  just /lib/firmware
[18:58] <tgardner> its just packaging
[18:58] <apw> how can they they would conflict release to release
[18:58] <apw> or do they 'replace' each otehr?
[18:58] <tgardner> apw, lbm-iwlwifi-4965-2.ucode v.s. iwlwifi-4965-2.ucode
[18:58] <tgardner> note the prefix
[18:58] <apw> no i mean if we have -15 and -16 of LBM installed at the same time
[18:59] <apw> tgardner, i have pushed up my updated LBM tree which you probabally should base of
[18:59] <tgardner> good point.
[18:59] <apw> base off, as i changed the packaging to get rid of nouveau
[18:59] <tgardner> k, I'll just change the driver swizzling to add the right path
[19:00] <apw> perhaps i lost some swizzling in my changes
[19:00] <tgardner> apw, no biggie, I'll have it figured out in a bit. I even have HW to test it on.
[19:01] <apw> tgardner, if you get it done tonight send it out and i'll pull it in in the morning ... i want this stack done by monday if i can
[19:01] <tgardner> apw, will do.
[19:01] <apw> cool ... /me wanders off to find food
[19:07] <cnd> tgardner: I think they should still be in /lib/firmware/`uname -r`
[19:08] <cnd> apw ^
[19:08] <cnd> if you look in /lib/udev/firmware.sh, it's smart enough to go looking there too
[19:08] <tgardner> cnd, nah, you can have multiple LBMs installed and you are not allowed to trash files from another package
[19:08] <cnd> and I think firmware under that directory comes from linux-image
[19:09] <cnd> hmmm... let me read the backscroll more carefully
[19:09] <tgardner> cnd, actually, I misread your comment.
[19:09] <tgardner> maybe I should review my udev rules.
[19:10] <tgardner> cnd, where did you find that firmware udev rule in the bug report yesterday?
[19:10] <cnd> the rule itself is /lib/udev/rules.d/50-firmware.rules I think
[19:11] <cnd> but what you are probably interested in more is /lib/udev/firmware.sh:
[19:11] <cnd> FIRMWARE_DIRS="/lib/firmware/updates/$(uname -r) /lib/firmware/updates \
[19:11] <cnd>                /lib/firmware/$(uname -r) /lib/firmware"
[19:11] <cnd> so lbm packages (I think this is what you're looking at?) should be putting them into /lib/firmware/updates/$(uname -r)
[19:11] <tgardner> cnd, hmm, I only have a binary /lib/udev/firmware
[19:12] <cnd> tgardner: what's your rule in 50-firmware.rules?
[19:12] <cnd> are you running karmic?
[19:12] <tgardner> cnd, lucid
[19:13] <cnd> tgardner: I've been working in karmic, as was the e100 issue
[19:13] <cnd> maybe it's changed?
[19:13] <tgardner> cnd, looks like
[19:14] <cnd> yep, I'm taking a look at my lucid partition
[19:15] <cnd> tgardner: how much you want to bet firmware.sh was made native for boot speed :)
[19:16] <tgardner> cnd, ./udev-151/extras/firmware/firmware.c
[19:17] <cnd> tgardner: still looks like the same paths are used
[19:17] <tgardner> cnd, looks like the search paths are /lib/firmware/updates/ and /lib/firmware/
[19:17] <cnd> tgardner: with the possibility of the kernel release added on
[19:17] <cnd> tgardner: http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/hotplug/udev.git;a=blob;f=extras/firmware/firmware.c;h=16455dec8f3299ef2283ce1382ad1cb1d99a0cb4;hb=HEAD#l137
[19:17] <cnd> or just look at line 137
[19:18] <tgardner> cnd, so, you think it'll decend into  /lib/firmware/updates/ ?
[19:18] <tgardner> ah, yuo're right
[19:18] <tgardner> I can test that soon enough
[19:18] <cnd> tgardner: so that's everything you needed to fix your issue?
[19:19] <tgardner> cnd, I think so. I'll know soon enough
[19:19] <cnd> cool
[19:35] <tgardner> cnd, since you're fresh on udev, remind me how to enable debug.
[19:36] <cnd> tgardner: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Firmware :)
[19:36] <tgardner> tahts right, I remember seeing your page go by
[19:36] <cnd> let me know if there's any other info you need or if something's not clear
[19:37] <cnd> I suppose it will need to be updated for lucid...
[19:40] <Keybuk> tgardner: udev should look in /lib/firmware/updates/$(uname -r)/FW
[19:42] <tgardner> FW?
[19:43] <tgardner> Keybuk, oh, you mean /lib/firmware/updates/2.6.32-15-generic/lbm-iwlwifi-4965-2.ucode
[19:43] <Keybuk> yes
[19:44] <tgardner> Keybuk, the log shows FIRMWARE=lbm-iwlwifi-4965-2.ucode, so the names appear to be correct
[19:45] <tgardner> lemme make sure it can find it if I copy to /lib/firmware
[19:46] <cnd> tgardner: Keybuk: what's going wrong?
[19:46] <cnd> the firmware is in the right place, but still isn't getting loaded?
[19:49] <tgardner> cnd, shit, I may have trashed my drive.
[19:49] <cnd> tgardner: heh, how'd that happen?
[19:50] <tgardner> modprobe -r iwlagn, then hard power cycle after it wedges
[19:50] <tgardner> even recover locks up
[19:50] <tgardner> recovery*
[19:51] <tgardner> it must suddenly be lunch time
[19:51] <cnd> tgardner: boot from an iso and fsck?
[19:51] <cnd> tgardner: if you want me to look into an issue for you while you fix your drive let me know
[19:52] <tgardner> cnd, I'll get it figured out eventually. don't worry about it
[19:52] <cnd> ok
[20:24] <cnd> apw: how is your mainline ppa generated?
[20:25] <cnd> I'm wondering if we should have a compat-wireless mainline ppa as well for people to test with
[22:22] <manjo> bjf, looking for me ?