[06:34] <ara> good morning all
[08:06] <ara> mvo, ping
[08:07] <mvo> hey ara
[10:18] <davmor2> morning all
[10:29] <ara> morning davmor2
[12:02] <ara> mvo, do you know how can I install a ppa version of a package which is older than the version in ubuntu?
[12:16] <persia> ara: downgrading isn't guaranteed as safe, but you ought be able to do something like apt-get install ${PACKAGE}=${VERSION} if it appears in your apt-cache.
[12:16] <ara> persia, thanks!
[12:17] <persia> (it's not guaranteed as safe because the older package cannot know about the contents of the maintainer scripts for the newer package, so cannot necessarily reverse their effects properly)
[13:45] <davmor2> Morning fader_ been downloading tracks by the multitude then?
[14:00] <fader_> davmor2: Tried to :)  I even got a few before bug 544596 kicked in
[14:00] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 544596 in rhythmbox-ubuntuone-music-store (Ubuntu) "Songs not transferred from music store to U1 storage (affects: 3)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/544596
[14:06] <davmor2> fader_: so it's been out less than a day and you decided to break it, why? What did it do to you?
[14:07] <fader_> davmor2: Hey man, QA is supposed to break stuff!
[14:08] <davmor2> Oh r
[14:09] <fader_> Ah s
[14:11] <davmor2> fader_: that would be ah ss
[14:12] <charlie-tca> fader_: Sounds like you are doing a very good job, then?
[14:13] <fader_> charlie-tca: :D  Hey, give me something with the express intent that I break it, and I'll find a way
[14:13] <charlie-tca> and do it very well, too.
[17:56] <davmor2> http://www.pcpro.co.uk/blogs/2010/03/23/ubuntu-10-4-beta-is-bloody-brilliant/ what more can you say really?
[18:09] <fader_> davmor2: As long as you don't break anything before release we'll be good :)
[18:35] <davmor2> you're the new breaker
[18:35] <davmor2> fader_: ^
[21:18] <ceauke> Hi guys
[21:18] <ceauke> does anyone have a link for how to remove kernels from the grub list?
[21:19] <ceauke> I thought disk janiter removed old kernels but I can still select all from the grub menu. AND, i all works still
[21:24] <sbeattie> ceauke: I don't recall if computer janitor will do it, but you can manually uninstall them.
[21:25] <ceauke> thanks beattie. do I do it with package manager?
[21:25] <sbeattie> yeah
[21:31] <ceauke> cheers, will restart now. hopefully they are gone from grub
[21:35] <ceauke> hi there
[21:35] <ceauke> I removed my previous ubuntu kernels but they're still displayed in the bootloader
[21:36] <ceauke> isn't there a command that I can run to rebuild the grub bootup list?
[21:36] <charlie-tca> sudo update-grub
[21:36] <ceauke> thanks
[21:36] <ceauke> charlie, is there any risk that it will mess up my dual boot with windows?
[21:37] <charlie-tca> sure
[21:37] <ceauke> sold! I'll do it  :-D
[21:37] <charlie-tca> To the best of my knowledg, it could screw up bad
[21:37] <ceauke> the ubuntu install found the XP partition which was intalled first.
[21:38] <ceauke> and that was the alpha...
[21:38] <ceauke> so I don't really want to run a mass update tool if it's not safe.
[21:39] <ceauke> can't i just manually remove some from the 'list'?
[21:40] <sbeattie> hrm, uninstalling the kernels should have run update-grub in the postrm
[21:40] <ceauke> my uninstall was synaptic pkg tool and removing the two kernel files... maybe there's a more formal way to do it?


[09:52] <jochensp> vorlon: any update on a libc .4 for focal-updates? We found more systems breaking because of it
[10:25] <sil2100> jochensp: hey! So from what I know, rbalint was looking into it, trying to prepare a new upload with one of the patches reverted but apparently it was still broken, so he's digging into what else could have caused regressions
[10:26] <jochensp> thx, I'm wondering a bit how such a remove could happen (I think it should never happen)
[10:26] <sil2100> What remove you mean?
[10:27] <jochensp> removing .3 from focal-updates
[10:28] <sil2100> So we did remove .3 from focal-updates, we moved it to focal-proposed back, so focal-updates is now again on .2
[10:28] <sil2100> But existing users that upgraded sadly need to downgrade manually...
[10:29] <jochensp> yes, that's why I would have expected a .4 equal to .2
[10:29] <sil2100> If this takes too long we might think about pushing a .4 that would be basically source equivalent to .2 but with a higher version
[10:29] <jochensp> ^^
[10:30] <sil2100> Yeah, it's possible we might go this route indeed, I guess this hasn't been done as glibc is quite a hog and triggers a lot of autopkgtests, but yes
[10:30] <jochensp> (I'm currently running around unbreaking all my build nodes failing to install libc6-dev ;) )
[10:32] <sil2100> Ouch, sorry about that! Actually, maybe I'll just prepare this in a silo then ask vorlon for opinion and we can simply bin-copy it - if, of course, this will fix issues (since there's also the unlikely case that any rebuild just causes regressions)
[10:33] <jochensp> k, thx :)
[13:19] <TomyWork> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1923670 I see the fix for this issue has hit the hwe-5.4 and hwe-5.4-prep branches for bionic now, but until it's released, everyone on bionic who is not able to patch and rebuild a kernel module is still unable to use DFS (and has been for almost 2 weeks). I'm not in that group, but I'm curious about why fixing this regression in bionic takes so long.
[13:19] <TomyWork> The fix has been out for 10 days for focal.
[16:56] <xnox> cjwatson:  patviafore: hirsute converts systems to merged-usr upon upgrade; debootstrap is doing impish with merged usr; and buildd images should too https://code.launchpad.net/~xnox/livecd-rootfs/+git/livecd-rootfs/+merge/402097
[16:57] <xnox> not sure if CPC / Launchpad / (snapcraft?) need to know about this change, but pondering to highlight it. Any objections? Once it is merged, and buildd images are built we should upgrade impish images to it.
[16:57] <xnox> s/images/buildd chroots in launchpad/
[17:00] <patviafore> xnox: I don't see any problems with it from a CPC perspective.
[17:00] <patviafore> gjolly: you've been working a bit on buildd images, do you see any problems with the approach?


[00:06] <rocsteady> Hi guys/gals: I want to learn how to set up services on ubuntu 12.10.
[00:06] <rocsteady> I was told that ubuntu would be the best os to use for learning how to set up servicse.
[00:06] <rocsteady> My question is; do you guys have any links or docs that you're aware of with info on setting up servicse on ubuntu?
[00:06] <rocsteady> I am also googling around and checking the ubuntu websites for some good docs to get me started.
[00:08] <rocsteady> ACtually I found this
[00:09] <bazhang> !upstart
[00:09] <rocsteady> http://tinyurl.com/c6qdkfh
[00:10] <rocsteady> I guess I just need a service to set up that's okay for a linux and setting up services newbie
[00:29] <rocsteady> ubot5: do you think upstart would be a good service to set up?
[00:29] <rocsteady> bazhang ^^
[08:13] <AlanBell> rocsteady: upstart is the service manager
[08:13] <AlanBell> so you probably need to write an upstart service
[08:14] <AlanBell> you can see an example of one at /etc/init.d/whoopsie
[17:02] <rocsteady> AlanBell: Oh okay, I will take a look as soon as I'm off work.
[17:02]  * rocsteady is on windows at work :(
[17:02] <rocsteady> Actually, I'll just ssh into another linux box..
[17:11]  * AlanBell is on Ubuntu at work \o/
[17:14] <rocsteady> wat
[17:14] <rocsteady> u r lucky
[17:20] <rocsteady> What do you think about systemd?
[17:23] <rocsteady> http://tinyurl.com/33xknxf is what I'm reading
[17:24] <rocsteady> To learn about the init daemons.
[17:35] <AlanBell> systemd is probably a good thing
[17:35] <AlanBell> but seeing as it came from the chap who wrote pulse audio I think it is reasonable for Ubuntu to wait until it is ready before switching to it
[17:52] <rocsteady>  AlanBell | but seeing as it came from the chap    . k1l
[17:52] <rocsteady>                         | who wrote pulse audio I think it is    . m4v
[17:52] <rocsteady>                         | reasonable for Ubuntu to wait until it . MrChrisDruif
[17:52] <rocsteady> ops
[17:52] <rocsteady> sorry
[17:53] <bazhang> heh
[17:54] <rocsteady> I was reposting what AlanBell said about why ubuntu is going to wait to use systemd
[17:54] <rocsteady> in another channel I'm in
[17:56] <AlanBell> http://undacuvabrutha.wordpress.com/2011/04/29/why-ubuntu-should-continue-with-upstart-for-11-10/
[17:56] <AlanBell> slightly more balanced and thought out opinion than mine :)
[17:57] <AlanBell> I suspect we will end up on systemd at some point
[17:57] <AlanBell> can't say I am massively excited about plumbing that low level


[08:45] <nlsthzn> Goeie more Suid Afrika
[17:04] <howzitcal> hey guys I really need some systemd linux advice!
[21:14] <pavlushka> ahoy ZA!
[21:14] <pavlushka> Maaz: seen QA
[21:14] <Maaz> pavlushka: QA was last seen 2 years, 3 months, 15 days, 4 hours, 26 minutes and 15 seconds ago in #ubuntu-za on freenode [2016-01-31 16:48:10 GMT], and has been online on freenode since 2017-05-20 18:35:40 BST


[00:51] <Gabz> where you you start with getting involved in ubuntu documenation ?
[00:56] <nixternal> Gabz: typically the wiki unless you are ready to dive in with some DocBook/XML coding for system documentation
[00:57] <nixternal> also, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam is another good place to check out, although it hasn't been updated in a while
[00:58] <Gabz> ok i think i read the Doc Team wiki page didn't contain much...
[00:58] <nixternal> ya, I haven't looked at it in a while


[00:27] <johnc4510> dpic: ok, i added it to next wks issue
[00:28] <johnc4510> ok, gotta run for now
[00:30] <johnc4510> The new issue of the Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter #164 is now available:
[00:30] <johnc4510> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue164


[02:45] <genii-netbook> For Samsung ARTIK7, use the ARTIK10 install? https://developer.ubuntu.com/core/get-started/artik-5-10#alternative-install:-ubuntu-server-16.04-lts
[07:18] <lordievader> Good morning.
[07:18] <bitfawkes> hello
[07:18] <bitfawkes> can I ask for a question?
[07:19] <andol> bitfawkes: Yes
[07:19] <bitfawkes> andol: thanks
[07:19] <bitfawkes> I m trying to get vmware gui from remote server to localhost using ssh -X
[07:20] <bitfawkes> and I get the follow error message
[07:20] <bitfawkes> (vmware-modconfig:3286): Gtk-WARNING **: cannot open display: localhost:11.0
[07:20] <bitfawkes> I use ubuntu 14.04 server on both system and just on local is installed gnome
[07:22] <andol> bitfawkes: Might https://superuser.com/a/310201 be the answer? Is the remote sshd configured to allow X-forwardign?
[07:22] <bitfawkes> yes
[07:24] <bitfawkes> is configured to allow
[07:32] <lordievader> What command are you using to set up the X forwarding?
[07:34] <bitfawkes> ssh -X user@ip
[07:37] <bitfawkes> I did edit sshd_config
[07:38] <lordievader> You might have better luck with the -Y flag, that usually works better for me.
[07:38] <sarnold> try ssh -v to dump debug messages. sometimes you can spot it there. check logs on the host, you may get lucky
[07:38] <sarnold> lordievader: iirc debian patches ssh client to make -X automatically include -Y
[07:41] <sarnold> well now that I go looking for it I'm not finding it. try -Y. :)
[07:46] <b3h3m0th> Is it insescure to run ubuntu server without changing default root password?
[07:47] <sarnold> ubuntu does not set a root password
[08:24] <b3h3m0th> sarnold: that's what
[08:24] <b3h3m0th> that's why I mentioned "default" password
[08:25] <b3h3m0th> What are the security implications of not doing a "sudo passwd root" post installation ?
[08:25] <b3h3m0th> and deploying the server in production publicly
[08:26] <b3h3m0th> Without changing the built in root password
[08:33] <lordievader> sarnold: Ah, I did not know that, nice.
[08:34] <lordievader> b3h3m0th: In theory running that command is worse than not running the command.
[08:34] <lordievader> b3h3m0th: As sarnold said, root doesn't have a password. Thus anything you'd try as a password fails.
[08:56] <b3h3m0th> lordievader: then what is the hash stored in shadow against root ?
[08:59] <b3h3m0th> hash(salt+something) must evaluate to that right? lordievader sarnold
[09:01] <b3h3m0th> it's a valid $6 hash (sha512)
[09:03] <lordievader> Did you set a password?
[09:14] <_ruben> if there's a hash for root in /etc/shadow, someone ran passwd for that user
[09:15] <_ruben> by default the "hash" is *
[09:17] <b3h3m0th> lordievader: _ruben nope, no one did
[09:17] <b3h3m0th> wait, let me verify
[09:17] <b3h3m0th> with my old snapshot
[09:18] <_ruben> it's simple, ubuntu doesn't set a password for root by default. if there is a password set, it was done so "manually"
[09:19] <_ruben> (wouldn't be the first time someone did 'sudo passwd' instead of 'passwd'. been there, done that ;))
[09:19] <b3h3m0th> sorry guys, my bad
[09:19] <b3h3m0th> I was checking the wrong instance
[10:47] <_ruben> hehe
[10:49] <_ruben> now if only i could get idmapd to work for my nfs4 exports/shares
[13:39] <jamespage> cpaelzer: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libvirt/+bug/1665698 is a little confusing right?
[13:40] <cpaelzer> "a little" is a little underrated
[13:40] <cpaelzer> it is VERY confusing
[13:40] <cpaelzer> I tried to cover and add the bits I found, but by that it accumulated quite some text now
[13:41] <cpaelzer> If you are looking at/into that now please let me know if you have any need of clarification for the few posts I added
[13:41] <cpaelzer> I often come back to my post summarizing the timeline
[13:41] <cpaelzer> jamespage: that is the comment one should memorize
[13:42] <cpaelzer> jamespage: I'm really interested if you think Openstack in general or UCA would have to do something on top
[13:47] <jamespage> cpaelzer: I have updates in  proposed for newton which contain the fix that caused the problem, yet I see no problems (see last posting)
[13:48] <jamespage> cpaelzer: we're not going to put yakkety libvirt into the UCA for newton; its closed to a bump like that
[13:49] <cpaelzer> jamespage: I never wanted to suggest to put yakkety libvirt into UCA-Newton
[13:49] <cpaelzer> jamespage: all the references were only parts of my analysis on the timeline
[13:50] <jamespage> cpaelzer: no worries - I realised that
[13:50] <zul> jamespage/coreycb: there is a newer version of horizon for ocata btw
[13:50] <cpaelzer> jamespage: your latest update is good
[13:51] <cpaelzer> jamespage: IMHO it is only showing the issue when running openstack ocata on anything prior to UCA-Ocata
[13:51] <cpaelzer> jamespage: I still fix the yakkety/zesty libvirt, but just for the sake of fixing a real issue in general, not the one of the bug reporter in particular
[13:52] <cpaelzer> jamespage: I see the last comment of the reporter that this is lined up for newton - is this what you referred to the updates in proposed ?
[13:54] <cpaelzer> jamespage: can you read the answer to your vif type question out of http://cdn.pasteraw.com/b3tw4cjefomfi3e9k09hvodrfun85z ?
[13:55] <jamespage> cpaelzer: I groked the code and that path is used for a few vif types
[13:55] <jamespage> cpaelzer: I'm concerned that upstream gate say's all good, but we're being told differently
[13:55] <jamespage> cpaelzer: openstack has baselines for libvirt compat, and the xenial version is in range
[13:56] <cpaelzer> jamespage: does the upstream gate run on systems with apparmor enabled?
[13:57] <cpaelzer> jamespage: because with the older libvirt it is qemu now calling the default path and that is blocked by apparmor - if they run apparmor disabled it would look normal
[13:57] <jamespage> cpaelzer: I'd hope they don't
[13:58] <cpaelzer> jamespage: on an old libvirt the change in Openstack is a change in "what you ask for" - while "" was nop, not setting anything is "please run default path"
[13:58] <cpaelzer> jamespage: not sure you want to push in that to Newton
[13:59] <cpaelzer> jamespage: I can only fix newer libvirt to understand "" as being a nop, but as I outlined in the bug - I think the Openstack change is faulty
[13:59] <jamespage> cpaelzer: I'll put the SRU on hold for the xenial-newton uca until we get this resolved
[13:59] <jamespage> cpaelzer: tend to agree with you btw
[13:59] <cpaelzer> jamespage: there was an update by Neil Jerram - he seems to be the author of that change
[14:00] <cpaelzer> jamespage: is that somebody you know and could contact to revisit that - see comment #30
[14:02] <jamespage> mbbe
[14:31] <adityaduggal> Hi can any one let me know a good alternative to jumpcloud using ubuntu server
[14:31] <adityaduggal> I want to have common login ids for all my ubuntu desktops
[14:31] <adityaduggal> using ubuntu server
[15:02] <jamespage> cpaelzer: more comments on https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1665698
[15:02] <jamespage> cpaelzer: basically nova broke its compatibility with the libvirt 1.2.1 baseline (at least)
[15:08] <frickler> zul: are you still working on networking-bgpvpn packaging? the first version seems to be lacking a systemd service definition and a couple of files in /etc
[15:09] <zul> frickler: i been out for a week and just got back today so can you open up a bug for it? thanks
[15:13] <cpaelzer> jamespage: thanks, I made a summar on the related versions to avoid everybody missing the updates before
[15:13] <cpaelzer> new compat wuold be >=1.3.3
[21:04] <kklimonda> what's responsible for ubuntu not resolving non RFC1034-compliant hostnames (for example you can't ping _http._tcp.nova.clouds.archive.ubuntu.com)
[21:06] <nacc> kklimonda: works fine in 17.04
[21:07] <kklimonda> interesting, for me in 16.04 host [hostname] works fine, returning a bunch of IPs, but ping [hostname] fails
[21:08] <nacc> kklimonda: reproduce here in a 16.04 container
[21:08] <nacc> kklimonda: in 17.04 both work
[21:08] <kklimonda> thanks, I guess it's been changed since 16.04
[21:08] <nacc> kklimonda: both work in 16.10 as well
[21:11] <nacc> kklimonda: there's a pretty big jump in the version between 16.04 and 16.10, might need a bug filed
[21:14] <DammitJim> where is the proper place to put keystores?
[21:22] <nacc> kklimonda: going off version strings, relevant commits might be
[21:22] <nacc> kklimonda: https://github.com/iputils/iputils/commit/0f483ade4ca96c4fdb5c10ec4bd02fce5eed5847
[21:23] <sarnold> bonus, the patch is easy to test :)
[21:23] <nacc> kklimonda: debian bug was https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=305062
[21:26] <nacc> kklimonda: or possibly this one: https://github.com/iputils/iputils/commit/37953bfbe4bd1b4c2be26d837dcfa2934d5a4e16
[21:26] <nacc> kklimonda: 16.10 and 17.04 are aftre that commit, so it's probably that, where they dropped the older API calls altogether
[21:27] <nacc> kklimonda: and no longer even print the "unknown host" message :)
[21:27] <nacc> kklimonda: that one might be harder to backport, though
[21:27] <nacc> kklimonda: but an easy test would be to use the older and newer API calls in a test program and see if they respond differently on 16.04
[21:31] <kklimonda> nacc: well, ping was just an example anyway - I actually hit this deep in a larger codebase, something calling boost library to resolve hostname. That being said, I've stolen some online example of getaddrinfo, and it's failing just the same on 16.04
[21:32] <nacc> kklimonda: sure, but ping is a small codebase, easy to iterate and test on :)
[21:32] <nacc> kklimonda: in any case, i'd file a bug
[21:32] <kklimonda> I've tried, and Launchpad said "nope, not today" ;)
[21:33] <kklimonda> does this build and work on 16.10: http://pastebin.com/RSUrVfv0 ?
[21:35] <nacc> kklimonda: let me get a build env setup
[21:41] <nacc> kklimonda: it built, it works and spits out the same hostname
[21:41] <kklimonda> thanks


[00:06] <TheMuso> Is ubiquith trunk now lp:ubuntu/ubiquity?
[00:06] <TheMuso> ubiquity even
[00:06] <CIA-6> ubiquity: evand * r3742 ubiquity/ (5 files in 3 dirs):
[00:06] <CIA-6> ubiquity: Use a GtkSpinner instead of a separate progress window when on the
[00:06] <CIA-6> ubiquity: manual partitioning page.
[00:07] <ev_> TheMuso: no
[00:07] <TheMuso> ev_: ok thanks
[00:08] <ev_> sure thing
[00:12] <ev_> superm1: do you consider "Support adding packages (on disk) like langpacks and codecs after install" to be complete by the recent oem-config changes, or did you have something else in mind for this particular work item? (assuming you're the one requesting this)
[00:12] <superm1> ev_, i dont think there's actually any logic that hooks up the selection of the language during oem-config to the package that gets installed in install_oem_extras right now, so that's all i would see missing
[00:13] <akk> Hi -- I'm trying lucid alpha 2 and when I try to use my existing /boot (ext2), the partitioner says "File system has an incompatible feature enabled"
[00:13] <akk> but it doesn't tell me what feature is incompatible.
[00:13] <akk> I made this /boot with an earlier installer, either intrepid or jaunty.
[00:14] <akk> (This is in the live installer run from the icon after booting into the livecd)
[00:16] <akk> Is there some way I can find out what the problem is, and how I need to update the filesystem?
[00:17] <ev_> superm1: okay, I'll get on that.  Cool, thanks!
[00:17] <superm1> thanks!
[00:23] <cjwatson> akk: hmm, we really ought not to whine just because parted can't cope - can you show us the output of 'tune2fs -l <device name for the partition holding /boot>'?
[00:23] <cjwatson> without <> obviously
[00:25] <akk> http://shallowsky.com/tmp/tune2fs.txt
[00:27] <cjwatson> ok, well FWIW it's ext_attr it hates
[00:27] <cjwatson> but I don't think the right fix is really to remove ext_attr
[00:28] <cjwatson> could you post /var/log/syslog and /var/log/partman from the installation attempt?  let's see what partman command it's faling over on
[00:28] <cjwatson> *falling
[00:30] <akk> I've put them all in http://shallowsky.com/tmp/lucid/
[00:30] <akk> oops, fixing permissions on syslog
[00:40] <cjwatson> hmm, that's unhappy for at least one other reason that I know I fixed post-a2
[00:41] <cjwatson> namely bug 506585
[00:41] <cjwatson> but that may not be enough
[00:43] <cjwatson> let me see exactly what the ext_attr attribute involves
[00:43] <cjwatson> akk: (stick around, I might be a little while but it's on my list)
[00:43] <akk> Thanks, will do
[00:43] <akk> though I might be heading to dinner soon (then back after that)
[00:43] <cjwatson> akk: could you file a bug on the Ubuntu parted package with these logs attached, and noting in the subject line that it's failing to handle the ext_attr option?
[00:44] <akk> Sure thing.
[00:44] <cjwatson> thanks
[00:53] <akk> cjwatson: Filed bug 517349.
[00:57] <cjwatson> akk: thanks.  alpha 3 will fix your problem, one way or another
[00:57] <cjwatson> in fact, if you want to work around it now ...
[00:58] <cjwatson> akk: edit /lib/partman/check.d/10check_basicfilesystems before starting the installer, look for the line reading 'ext2|fat16|fat32)', and remove 'ext2|'
[00:58] <akk> Cool, I'll do that. Thanks!
[00:59] <cjwatson> akk: but you should probably start with a current daily buildd of the live CD, to avoid the other problem you ran into
[00:59] <cjwatson> *build
[00:59] <akk> The daily-installer in the topic here?
[00:59] <StevenK> Of course it is :-)
[00:59] <cjwatson> no, http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/
[01:00] <cjwatson> StevenK: CONTEXT ;-)
[01:00] <StevenK> Oh. Misunderstood
[01:00] <akk> Thanks, I'll download one of those and use it.
[01:00] <cjwatson> I took the liberty of editing your bug description to say "alpha 2" rather than "alpha 3", which doesn't exist yet :)
[01:04] <akk> oops, quite right :)
[01:04] <CIA-6> partman-basicfilesystems: cjwatson * r581 ubuntu/ (check.d/check_basicfilesystems debian/changelog):
[01:04] <CIA-6> partman-basicfilesystems: Stop checking ext2 filesystems using libparted, since it can't deal with
[01:04] <CIA-6> partman-basicfilesystems: those created with recent versions of mke2fs (LP: #517349). We were
[01:04] <CIA-6> partman-basicfilesystems: already refraining from checking ext3 and ext4 filesystems using
[01:04] <CIA-6> partman-basicfilesystems: libparted for the same reason.
[01:06] <akk> I'm heading to dinner (while the daily iso downloads :), but I'll be around later if you need anything tested.
[01:08] <cjwatson> no, that's ok, it won't be ready for test immediately anyway
[01:08] <CIA-6> partman-basicfilesystems: cjwatson * r582 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 63ubuntu3
[01:08] <cjwatson> the daily image in a few days' time should hopefully Just Work
[03:02] <akk> Can I ask another silly installer q? I'm trying the nightly build, but I've ended up with no X and a shell prompt on ctl-alt-F1
[03:02] <akk> maybe because I used the KVM to be on my other machine while the live install was starting up.
[03:03] <akk> Can I just startx or something from that prompt?
[03:03] <akk> The console isn't showing any errors, but there's no signal if I go to ctl-alt-F7.
[19:34] <CIA-6> ubiquity: evand * r3724 plugins-conversion/ubiquity/components/ubi-usersetup.py: Replace references to FilteredCommand.
[19:58] <CIA-6> partman-iscsi: cjwatson * r48 ubuntu/ (debian/changelog finish.d/iscsi_settings):
[19:58] <CIA-6> partman-iscsi: Set HWADDR rather than ISCSI_NETDEVICE, so that we select the default
[19:58] <CIA-6> partman-iscsi: network interface by MAC address rather than by interface name
[19:58] <CIA-6> partman-iscsi: (LP: #473036).
[19:59] <CIA-6> partman-iscsi: cjwatson * r49 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 13
[21:19] <joshk> is there a way to avoid the automatic apt-get update at the end of an install?
[21:19] <joshk> it doesn't seem to time out, so it's messing up my unattended installs
[21:25] <joshk> ok, never mind. i see that apt has a http timeout of 30 seconds
[21:25] <joshk> but it's not taking
[21:32] <joshk> i filed LP#517797
[21:41] <Fallenou> hi, i'm trying to boot the latest Lucid iso with grub2, but i only found config for grub2 which use boot=casper, and i think lucid ISO does not use casper anymore, what should i put instead of "boot=casper" ?
[21:42] <Fallenou> i'm using this tutorial : http://doc.ubuntu-fr.org/tutoriel/grub2_lancer_des_images_iso (sorry it's in french but you can find the config i'm using) , i think i must update some parameters since the Lucid ISO seem to be using something else instead of casper now
[22:25] <cjwatson> Fallenou: I don't know where you got your information from, but lucid images still use casper
[22:25] <cjwatson> and boot=casper is still the way to trigger it
[22:25] <Fallenou> ok i didn't know, i thought casper wasn't used anymore because there is no casper directory
[22:25] <Fallenou> the directory is now named "install"
[22:26] <Fallenou> so i guess i just have to change the directory names and it should boot, thanks :)
[22:28] <CIA-6> ubiquity: evand * r3725 plugins-conversion/ (10 files in 5 dirs): Mostly working automatic partitioning page (but not manual), and working summary page.
[22:29] <cjwatson> Fallenou: err - you're looking at the wrong CD image!
[22:30] <cjwatson> Fallenou: try "desktop" rather than "alternate" or "server" ...
[22:30] <ev_> (^ ignore that, uncommitted)
[22:31] <Fallenou> cjwatson, i'm actually part of the proprietary graphic driver testing
[22:31] <Fallenou> and i think alternate are the only iso available for testing
[22:31] <cjwatson> are these some special customised images or something?
[22:32] <Fallenou> i don't know it's my first try for booting one of them
[22:32] <Fallenou> i think there are just made to test integration of latest binary drivers inside the lucid
[22:32] <cjwatson> why not use the daily-live images?
[22:32] <cjwatson> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/
[23:02] <Fallenou> cjwatson, i took this zsync http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/current/lucid-alternate-i386.iso.zsync
[23:03] <Fallenou> they are all alternate images
[23:03] <Fallenou> there is no desktop image
[23:03] <Fallenou> do you think it's the same to use daily-live ?
[23:21] <cjwatson> Fallenou: if you're looking for an image that uses casper, you are in the wrong directory.  look in /daily-live/current/ instead.
[23:21] <cjwatson> the desktop images live there.
[23:21] <Fallenou> yes i'm downloading it right away
[23:21] <Fallenou> thank you very much :)
[23:51] <CIA-6> debian-installer: cjwatson * r1238 ubuntu/ (34 files in 2 dirs): Update help translation files (LP: #508385, #508387, #508389).


[01:49] <Makyo> Fiiiiinally unbrincked the tablet.
[01:49] <Makyo> er.. unbricked
[01:52] <rick_h_> Makyo: yay
[01:52] <Makyo> Of course, now it's running Android, so...lets hope the next flash doesn't do the same :o)
[01:52] <Makyo> I gained a nose, apparently.
[01:53] <rick_h_> any time you see a UI it's a good thing
[01:53] <Makyo> Yeah, seriously.  Anything but just plain black D:
[01:53] <rick_h_> sometimes having to go through POST and Grub is comforting stuff :)
[01:53] <Makyo> Yeah.
[01:54] <Makyo> The Dell Optiplex series was good for that, because if it didn't even make it to beep codes, it couldn't turn the fan speed down, so the thing would just rev the fan to top speed until the thing sounded like it would fly away.
[01:54] <Makyo> Good because none of them were mine, I guess.
[01:55] <Makyo> Enough computer.  Until tomorrow o/
[01:55] <rick_h_> party on
[10:49] <frankban> hi rogpeppe: am I right assuming that the relation id is created in this way? -> "[requirer service name]:[requirer Relation.Name] [provider service name]:[provider Relation.Name]"
[10:50] <rogpeppe> frankban: that sounds right, yes.
[10:51] <rogpeppe> frankban: check out the relationKey function in state/relation.go for the definitive answer. the ordering is defined in epSlice.Less in endpoint.go
[10:54] <frankban> rogpeppe: cool, thanks. IC, roleOrder  ah! any idea about reintroducing the status in the unitInfo?
[10:55] <rogpeppe> frankban: it's happening, although delayed because i've been trying to diagnose a runtime bug.
[10:55] <frankban> rogpeppe: great, thanks
[10:56] <frankban> rogpeppe: anyway, nice change re relation key, much better than "relation-000000X".
[13:05] <BradCrittenden> guihelp: does anyone understand this card "Expose service config information via Go API"
[13:06] <bac> it looks surprisingly like 'juju get svc' but that command is already in the Go API
[13:06] <bac> and there is no corresponding bug
[13:07] <teknico> bac, the card description seems very clear
[13:07] <teknico> bac, totally white, actually ;-)
[13:09] <bac> teknico: you're very helpful, as usual.  :)
[13:09] <teknico> ain't I? ;-)
[13:11] <bac> benji: i see you created that card.  got any extra info?
[13:13] <benji> bac: I haven't looked at it much yet.  It either needs to be an RPC call or a  new watcher
[13:13] <benji> I've been up sick all night so I'm afraid I'm not going to be around today.
[13:13] <bac> benji: but how does it differ from 'get'?
[13:13] <bac> benji: oh, ok.  sorry you aren't well
[13:23] <frankban> bac: could you please take a look at https://codereview.appspot.com/8406044 ?
[13:28] <rick_h_> anyone up for a looking over a bunch of html/css :) https://codereview.appspot.com/8412043/
[13:45] <bac> frankban: sure
[13:45] <frankban> bac: thanks
[13:47] <bac> benji: if you aren't going to be around today do you want to hand off the GUI card you've got?  i'd be glad to run with it
[14:00] <hatch> morning
[14:04] <bac> frankban: i'm looking but this code is unfamiliar so i'm going slow
[14:04] <bac> hi hatch
[14:05]  * hatch is frustrated with this code
[14:05] <frankban> bac: yes, that's a new module, we can make a call if you want to.
[14:06] <bac> thanks but not yet needed
[14:16] <bac> frankban: why did instance_state go away?  is that unrelated to this branch?
[14:18] <frankban> bac: because, AFAIK, it is unused, it is not included either by the pydelta or juju-core delta, and it generates confusion. I discussed this with Benji and we decided to just get rid of that attribute
[14:19] <bac> frankban: ok, cool.
[14:19] <bac> frankban: reviewed
[14:20] <frankban> bac: great, thanks
[14:58] <Makyo> jujugui call in 2
[15:01] <bcsaller> after the call a review of https://codereview.appspot.com/8358045/ will clear 4 cards
[15:02] <Makyo> rick_h_, jovan2 luca__  call in guichat
[15:31] <hatch> rick_h_: I think at one point yuidoc required the leading *
[15:31] <hatch> that's why most of their code has that
[15:32] <rick_h_> hatch: yea, and those files i linked the one without the * ends with **/
[15:32] <rick_h_> hatch: I just went to look at their code saying if we're going to convention-ize and do what YUI does (camel var) might as well check and noticed they don't agree eitehr
[15:32] <hatch> I used to do the * preceeding but got lazy and thats when I stopped :D
[15:32] <hatch> lol
[15:32] <rick_h_> editor does it for me, I'm lazy
[15:32] <rick_h_> just trained my dog well :)
[15:34] <hatch> haha - right now switching between osx/ubuntu multiple times in the day is killing my finger memory
[15:34] <hatch> unfortunately I have to pay to get my garage roof redone so no new laptop for me
[15:34] <hatch> :/
[15:37] <Makyo> Booo
[15:38] <hatch> yeah it's $3500 and I worked it out to be about $2000 in materials
[15:38] <hatch> it'll take 3 pro's 2 full days to do all the work so I figured it would take me 2 full weeks
[15:38] <hatch> lol
[15:39] <hatch> home ownership....pffffft
[15:39] <Makyo> Haha, yeah
[15:40] <Makyo> Prefer blog post or email for the meeting summary?
[15:40] <hatch> email
[15:51] <hatch> bcsaller: the relation response object includes a relation id, interface, and scope - any idea how these are defined?
[15:51] <bcsaller> hatch: let me see if I can find you a good reference
[15:51] <hatch> thanks
[15:52] <hatch> I notice the relation model has them
[15:53] <bcsaller> hatch: https://juju.ubuntu.com/docs/charm.html is a good place to start (relation section), the relation ident was added later and just exposes a unique id for the relation
[15:53] <hatch> alright thanks
[15:53] <bcsaller> hatch: if you need more info let me know
[16:51] <hatch> bcsaller: is there any objection to me storing the charm data in the service model?
[16:51] <hatch> to build out the relation response I need the information under 'requires' in the charm
[16:51] <bcsaller> hatch: we have the charm for the metadata and the relation object holds the endpoints
[16:52] <bcsaller> you don't need to change the models as they already satisfy the use case with real jujus
[16:53] <hatch> got a sec for a guichat?
[16:53] <bcsaller> I think what we'll need are a few helper methods in fakebackend to assemble this and make the checks
[16:53] <bcsaller> I do
[17:08] <frankban> bye all, have a nice weekend!
[17:12] <hatch> cya frankban
[17:12] <hatch> you too
[17:34] <hatch> bcsaller: in this charm json data I don't see anything specifying weather it is a slave client or peet
[17:34] <hatch> per
[17:34] <hatch> peer
[17:34] <hatch> any idea how that is determined?
[17:35] <bcsaller> hatch: http://jujucharms.com/charms/precise/mysql/json look at provides and requires, those are translated to server and client respectively
[17:35] <hatch> ahh that's what I was thinking but wasn't sure
[17:35] <hatch> thx
[17:36] <bcsaller> http://jujucharms.com/charms/precise/wordpress/json is a better example
[17:36] <bcsaller> peer is a much less common relationship type
[17:38] <hatch> ahh ok, so a charm can't provide and require?
[17:38] <hatch> or it can
[17:38] <hatch> nm
[17:38] <hatch> I spoke too soon :)
[17:49] <hatch> do we have an accepted style to pre-hoist fn's in javascript or can we leave them close to where they are used?
[17:49] <hatch> ^ jujugui
[17:49] <bcsaller> If I understandd what you mean I leave them close till something else needs them, then into a util module
[17:50] <hatch> sounds like a plan
[17:58] <hatch> bcsaller: ok one more :) relation_id is this some arbitrary id for the relation?
[17:59] <bcsaller> hatch: yes, its a unique id
[17:59] <hatch> (Y)
[18:00] <bcsaller> hooks sometimes need to be able to know specifically what they are interacting with
[18:00] <bcsaller> we can just use a monotonically increasing number
[18:01] <hatch> this.db.relations.size() + 1
[18:01] <hatch> ok?
[18:01] <hatch> axe that I'll make it 0 indexed
[18:01] <hatch> this.db.relations.size()
[18:01] <hatch> :)
[18:02] <bcsaller> hatch: not size, things could be removed and the number could be reused
[18:02] <hatch> oh right
[18:03] <bcsaller> not that it would break anything with fakebackend, but still :)
[18:06] <hatch> this relation code started out being so simple....then you informed me of all the work it actually has to do :P
[18:35] <Makyo> ignorance [18:38] <bac> guihelp: frankban file bug 1164593 saying that double clicking on a service just brought up a "loading" message and nothing more.  i cannot reproduce.  has anyone else seen this behavior?
[18:38] <_mup_> Bug #1164593: GUI hangs on the service detail view <juju-gui:In Progress by bac> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/1164593 >
[18:38] <hatch> bac: I wasn't able to reproduce that either
[18:38] <hatch> sorry I forgot to mention on the ticket
[18:38] <bac> hatch: ok, i'll make a note and use your name in vain
[18:39] <bcsaller> bac: I suspect you already fixed it with the endpoint map fix, I think it was dying in process before
[18:39] <bac> bcsaller: ah, more good ammo
[18:40] <bac> invalidized
[18:51] <hatch> bcsaller: got a few minutes to take a peek at https://code.launchpad.net/~hatch/juju-gui/add-relation and let me know if I'm missing anything for the typical client/server relationship
[18:51] <bcsaller> hatch: taking a peek, then lunch
[18:51] <hatch> thanks
[18:52] <hatch> then I'll need you to fill me in this subordinate stuff
[18:52] <hatch> after lunch is fine :)
[18:52] <hatch> I also could use some lunch
[18:56] <bcsaller> hatch: 531 needs a [18:56] <bcsaller> mini-review
[18:56] <hatch> thanks!
[18:57] <bcsaller> also, check for authenticated at start of method
[18:57]  * bcsaller heads to lunch
[19:03] <hatch> bcsaller: 531: done, 536: that was copied from the endpoint.py, 571: relation- is the prefix used right now
[19:03] <hatch> now I'm lunching :)
[19:34] <hatch> bcsaller: you're just saying `this.changes.relations.push(relation);` there is no extra stuff that might not be as obvious that is required to add to the list?
[19:53] <bcsaller> hatch: its a map, not an array and it take an additional argument of true to indicate its a update/add
[19:53] <hatch> ok is this documented anywhere?
[19:53] <bcsaller> hatch: another question is do you need to push the two services into their change set as well.
[19:54] <hatch> I don't know - I didn't even know about this change list until you said it
[19:54] <hatch> so I haven't done it for any of the other stuff I've done
[19:55] <bcsaller> hatch: this is all new code, but _resetChanges, nextChanges implement it. addUnit shows an example
[19:55] <bcsaller> pretty much self contained
[19:56] <hatch> oh ok so we don't actually use this delta stuff yet
[19:59] <hatch> alright it's been added this.changes.relations[relationId] = [relation, true];
[20:06] <bcsaller> hatch: we do, sandbox.sendDelta consumes this
[20:06] <hatch> ahh ok - and what is this used for on the client?
[20:06] <hatch> or are these the ws updates?
[20:07] <bcsaller> this is as though improv were recoding changes in a list to send a batch to the client.
[20:07] <hatch> gotcha
[20:07] <bcsaller> so yes, this whole thing is talking over the ws channel and that part arranges the delta updates
[20:14] <hatch> you know you have a serious syntax error when the linter crashes
[20:14] <hatch> :D
[20:24] <hatch> oh poo
[20:39] <hatch> crud I did this all wrong
[20:39] <hatch> :/
[20:39] <hatch> ok not 'all' wrong, just have to shift some stuff around
[21:23] <hatch> bcsaller: are you still kickin around?
[21:24] <bcsaller> hatch: yeah, plenty of time left
[21:24] <hatch> oh right...ok
[21:24] <hatch> so I kind of screwed up and was passing too much information to the fakebackend
[21:24] <hatch> in reality all that's passed back is "wordpress:db" and "mysql:db"
[21:25] <bcsaller> ahh, that makes sense, then it does the resolution from the metadata
[21:25] <hatch> so from there I can pull the charm - I can then parse the charms to see which is the client and which is the server
[21:25] <hatch> my question is....can a charm be both a client and a server to eachother
[21:25] <hatch> so could they both be in eachothers provides and requires
[21:26] <bcsaller> hatch: yes, it could... rare though, don't think about it in terms of the charm though, only endpoint matches
[21:26] <bcsaller> if the endpoints match then its allowed
[21:26] <hatch> ok so as long as they are both 'db' or whatever then it's ok?
[21:27] <bcsaller> as long as they implement the other side of the expected endpoint
[21:27] <hatch> so then I would parse wordpress and mysql to find out which one has a requires db and that is the client
[21:27] <hatch> is that a logical approach?
[21:27] <bcsaller> client and server are just useful names in this context but meaningless for the most part
[21:27] <hatch> oh ok so I can ditch that assignment entirely then
[21:28] <hatch> niiiice
[21:28] <hatch> just check to make sure one has the other in it's requires
[21:28] <hatch> under the endpoint....in this case 'db'
[21:28] <bcsaller> sounds correct
[21:29] <hatch> I hope so, I hate redoing stuff
[21:29] <hatch> pet peeve hah
[21:30] <hatch> and should I include some type of validation to make sure the two endpoints are teh same?
[21:30] <hatch> or can I rely on the client side to do that for me?
[21:31] <hatch> ahh wahtever it's an extra line
[21:31] <hatch> might as well
[21:32] <hatch> well I guess 3 bcuz 80char limit :D
[21:32] <bcsaller> hatch: as an aside I changed addUnit to be zero based like juju and updated the tests.
[21:33]  * hatch shakes fist.....why I auta
[21:33] <hatch> alright cool
[21:33] <hatch> :D
[22:29] <hatch> there complete refactoring and the tests pass
[22:29] <hatch> yay for tests
[22:44] <hatch> hmm
[22:58] <hatch> bcsaller: mind taking a look at this https://code.launchpad.net/~hatch/juju-gui/add-relation When doing the integration tests the add_relation in python.js pre-formats the response which makes me have to check for that in the PyJujuApi - which feels wrong but I don't see any way around it
[22:59] <bcsaller> hatch: checking
[23:00] <hatch> thanks
[23:03] <bcsaller> hatch: you allow endpointToName to be a string but your handling on 459 would break if thats true (and I'm reading it properly)
[23:04] <bcsaller> the formatting you do makes sense though


[12:36] <DaveMorris> superm1 for the docs, I've made it so you can stick the png/jpg file into the image dir, and it then auto gets generated into an eps file
[12:36] <superm1> cool
[12:36] <superm1> that will make it easy to update
[12:37] <DaveMorris> was a nice bit of scripting, http://www.pastebin.ca/625376 if you fancy looking
[12:37] <DaveMorris> yeah thats what I though
[12:37] <superm1> the amount of content is growing too i saw :)  Grabbed a lot from the mythtv.org
[12:37] <DaveMorris> yeah, also have a ref section
[12:37] <superm1> so make sure that you quote them in referenced
[12:37] <superm1> okay good
[12:37] <DaveMorris> when are we releasing version 1?
[12:38] <superm1> October or Novemnber
[12:38] <DaveMorris> and are we gonna feature freeze when gutsy does.
[12:38] <superm1> i'd like to have the docs ready at the same time as release
[12:38] <superm1> of 7.10
[12:38] <superm1> mythbuntu
[12:39] <DaveMorris> yeah, howeved you'll have to freeze the feature changes so we can get them done, proof read etc
[12:39] <superm1> right
[12:39] <superm1> i'd like to feature freeze in August
[12:39] <DaveMorris> I've not been proof reading yet, as it keeps on changing
[12:39] <DaveMorris> end of August?
[12:39] <superm1> well August/September
[12:39] <superm1> yea either end of Aug or begin of Sept
[12:39] <superm1> wow that's quite some magic in that script
[12:40] <DaveMorris> well it's gpl'ed in the bzr tree so feel free to use it etc
[12:41] <DaveMorris> http://greenacre.no-ip.com/dave/stuff/morris-fullcircle-graphic-cluster07.pdf is the arcticle I'm writing for the fullcircle magazine atm
[12:43] <superm1> graphic rendering clusters
[12:43] <superm1> wow
[12:44] <superm1> 12800x3600.  that's amazing
[12:44] <DaveMorris> yeah, I max out the network, I want around $40k for a 10 gigbit network, but we have no money left :(
[12:45] <DaveMorris> so I'm stuck with 1gigbit
[12:45] <superm1> ha.  stuck at 1gigabit
[12:45] <superm1> that's the first time i've heard someone say that
[12:45] <DaveMorris> also the company sold us the machines saying they had dual gigabit nics
[12:45] <DaveMorris> bullshit, 1 is 100mbit
[12:46] <DaveMorris> took me a while to work out why it was slow with the nic's bonded than on there own
[12:46] <superm1> did you end up getting them to replace it?
[12:47] <DaveMorris> no, the pointed to the small print saying product may vary sligjtly from the description
[12:48] <superm1> that's bogus
[12:48] <DaveMorris> you notice the pictures in that article shows XP running
[12:48] <DaveMorris> I wasn't ovely fused, its not my money
[12:49] <superm1> why?
[12:49] <DaveMorris> why XP?
[12:49] <superm1> yea
[12:50] <DaveMorris> it was hooked up via hardware cables, so was at crap res, but the pic was for something else.  I've just used it as a spacer for where the actual pic will go.  Since its the same hardware
[12:50] <superm1> oh i see
[12:51] <DaveMorris> well I best goto bed if I wanna get to work on time.
[12:52] <superm1> alrihgt
[12:52] <superm1> night DaveMorris
[10:12] <kap> anyone here?
[11:00] <DaveMorris> why am I getting mythtv releated bugs on the mythbuntu mailing list?
[04:02] <tgm4883> Not sure DaveMorris, but i'm getting them too (and questions).
[04:03] <DaveMorris> but I already get them via been part of the mythtv group, I dont need them twice
[04:10] <tgm4883> agreed, not needed twice
[04:17] <tgm4883> hmm, perhaps because the mailing list is for ubuntu-mythtv, not mythbuntu.  I thought the list wasn't going to get this stuff as it was going to be low volume?
[04:19] <keescook> superm1: the udev maintainer is at GUADEC this week, so it's likely I won't hear back on the udev patch for v4l until next week.  :P  How did your experimentation turn out?
[04:37] <felix_> join #mythtv-users
[04:39] <superm1> keescook, I ran into issues getting the other thing I wanted to test to work up until 2am last night, and consequently didn't get a cd built to test with the patches.  it will have to wait till tonight.
[04:40] <superm1> DaveMorris, tgm4883 the contact addresses for the ubuntu-mythtv and mythbuntu group are set to the mailing list, any one can then respond to bugs/questions via email.  There shouldn't be any doubles sent out afaik though.  Should things be switched around?\
[04:41] <tgm4883> not sure, i think DaveMorris is getting it twice because he is in mythtv group and mythbuntu group
[04:41] <superm1> so am i
[04:41] <tgm4883> i only get it once
[04:41] <superm1> and i only get things once
[04:41] <tgm4883> hmm
[04:42] <tgm4883> something on his end i suppose.  Is he registered with 2 emails and one forwards?
[04:42] <laga> maybe he's on CC for some mails
[04:42] <superm1> some of the mails were threaded
[04:42] <superm1> so perhaps they looked like multiples
[04:43] <DaveMorris> my address on the mythbuntu list is different
[04:43] <superm1> oh
[04:43] <DaveMorris> no I have filters set up, and I've got them in ubuntu folder (launchpad sent) and in my mythbuntu folder, sent on the mythbuntu list
[04:45] <superm1> well perhaps i'll blow away the mailing list contact addy for 'mythbuntu'
[05:00] <superm1> keescook, speaking of the troubles i ran into with the other testing, could you sponsor the new resultant versions i made last night: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=6101 (mythbuntu-default-settings) and http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=6102 (mythbuntu-live-autostart)
[05:06] <keescook> superm1: mythbuntu-default-settings uploaded.  I can't find mythbuntu-live-autostart in the archive, though?
[05:12] <superm1> keescook, i wonder if the first version didn't clear binary new yet.  let me double check
[05:13] <superm1> woah.  what happened to LP overnight.  the fonts are huge...
[05:13] <superm1> yea its sitting in the queue still, if you upload the new version will it just override the old one? https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+queue?start=40
[05:14] <keescook> not sure...
[05:50] <superm1> keescook, as said in #ubuntu-devel, its safe to have both versions in the queue.
[06:00] <keescook> superm1: okay, cool.
[06:09] <keescook> superm1: -live-autostart uploaded.  :)
[06:10] <superm1> great thx
[06:13] <keescook> also, base-files uploaded too (now that freeze is over)
[06:14] <superm1> ah good.  so these "freezes" are more artificially created than the archive locking things out or putting them in queue then
[06:27] <superm1> mkrufky, i wanted to ask you a bit more about your desired CF configuration.  Could you see if the CF reader is automatically mounted in /media?
[06:27] <superm1> via gnome-volume-manager
[06:29] <mkrufky> hey
[06:29] <mkrufky> in my method, the CF is not hot-unpluggable
[06:29] <mkrufky> it works like any IDE hard drive
[06:29] <mkrufky> the computer does not know any difference
[06:30] <mkrufky> i think if you try to remove the CF disk, BAD BAD BAD things will happen
[06:30] <mkrufky> i have this very nice CF-to-IDE  adapter, so i mount the CF inside the case, and you do not have access to fiddle with it without opening up the machine
[06:30] <mkrufky> i can show you a pic of this adapter, if you're interested
[06:31] <mkrufky> .... only thing to keep in mind ....  you must set the linux configuration to treat the CF as a cdrom ....  do not attempt to write to it -- it should be read-only
[06:31] <mkrufky> otherwise, cf disks can only handle a limited amount or writes.... eventually it would die
[06:33] <mkrufky> [silence falls upon the crowd]
[06:36] <Tari> any Flash media has a limited life span
[06:36] <Tari> it's governed by the number of times it can be erased
[06:37] <mkrufky> exactly.... thats why i just build the system like a livecd and then "burn" it to CF ... or a usb flash drive
[06:37] <mkrufky> http://techsounds.org/linux/cf/
[06:37] <mkrufky> (i wrote this a few years ago)
[06:42] <mkrufky> superm1: did i answer your question sufficiently?
[06:51] <tgm4883> mkrufky, i suppose your method would also work with a microdrive?
[06:53] <mkrufky> tgm4883: yes.... with a microdrive, then you do not have the limited write limitation
[06:53] <mkrufky> either microdrive or CF would both show as any standard IDE disk
[06:54] <mkrufky> using something like this:
[06:54] <mkrufky> http://pics2.spoonfeeder.com/AieFTPFiles/AIEUser/3JZ6TKVVPM6B/VXELSUZ3EZQK.JPG
[06:55] <mkrufky> the one i use is a bit different -- it allows two cf dists per adapter
[06:55] <mkrufky> s/dists/disks
[06:56] <tgm4883> that would be really nice is a epia
[06:56] <tgm4883> in one i mean
[06:58] <mkrufky> yes... actually... i'd love to build a mini-itx box that can do mythfrontend stuff w/ HD output
[06:59] <mkrufky> i'd really like to get this big clunker out of my living room -- taking up all that space
[06:59] <mkrufky> donate it to charity or something,. lol
[07:04] <tgm4883> yea, i almost built one, but the HD on it wasn't definite.  All I heard about it was that it "Should" be able to do HD
[07:07] <mkrufky> i havent really done the research yet....  ive read about a mini-itx board with built in HDMI outs .... that sounds nice
[07:13] <tgm4883> oh sorry, yea i built a mini itx system.  I was actually looking at building something a little smaller, but the HD wasn't definite.  I was looking at either nano itx or pico itx  http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/mainboards/
[07:14] <tgm4883> the problem is the processor, as it's built in and only goes up to a certain speed since its passively cooled
[07:14] <tgm4883> couple that with a microdrive, and you have 1 small quiet system
[07:15] <mkrufky> a flash drive would be faster....
[07:15] <mkrufky> (but read only, i guess)
[07:16] <tgm4883> true
[07:16] <tgm4883> once setup though, would you need to write?
[07:17] <tgm4883> actually the nano-itx board they have looks pretty good now, more info
[07:17] <tgm4883> wonder how linux compatible it is though
[07:17] <mkrufky> a perfect setup should never really need to write
[07:17] <mkrufky> well... ideally
[07:18] <mkrufky> what i would do .....  is keep the build for the system on a different hard drive somewhere, and maintain two cf disks
[07:18] <mkrufky> one for production ... always works
[07:18] <mkrufky> the other for upgrading
[07:18] <mkrufky> this way, you can upgrade the system without jeopardizing the stable system -- can always go back to it in the event of a regression
[07:18] <mkrufky> (also makes the dual cf-adapter that much more handy)
[07:45] <superm1> mkrufky, sorry i was out for lunch
[07:45] <superm1> i understand a lot better now
[07:45] <mkrufky> superm1: no prob
[07:46] <superm1> that method could be adapted to use the live disk (alpha 3 +) with mythbuntu-live-autostart
[07:47] <mkrufky> probably ... im not very familiar with mythbuntu-live yet....  but i intend to play with it soon
[07:47] <superm1> well you won't see this until the next alpha (next week or two)
[07:47] <superm1> i just finished the coding for it and such yesterday
[07:50] <mkrufky> ok
[07:51] <mkrufky> so then i wont try mythbuntu yet :-)
[07:51] <mkrufky> as it is ... my feisty mythfrontend works fine with my fc5 mythbackend server .... so i think its safe to assume that a mythbuntu frontend would work fine as well
[07:51] <superm1> now if something is mounted rw, but is only read from - does that still count against the requirement on mounts?
[07:51] <mkrufky> its a bad idea to do that
[07:51] <superm1> yes - up until final release at least
[07:52] <mkrufky> journaling stuff will still write stuff
[07:52] <mkrufky> you'd have to use vfat or ext2, i guess
[07:52] <mkrufky> better off to mount read only as read only
[07:52] <superm1> well what you will likely do then is two partitions
[07:52] <mkrufky> otherwise you risk shortening the life of the media
[07:52] <superm1> one that keeps the "cd image"
[07:52] <mkrufky> and the other for settings
[07:52] <superm1> and one for configuration file and ~/.mythtv
[07:53] <mkrufky> in *my* case, i would keep the system on cf, and use a usb key for settings
[07:53] <superm1> as long as the second is mounted in /media
[07:53] <superm1> that's all that matters
[07:53] <superm1> yea a usb key is cheap enough
[07:55] <mkrufky> yes
[07:55] <mkrufky> plus, you wouldnt need more that a few MB for the configuration
[07:55] <mkrufky> you can probably pick upa 4mb usb dohickey for a few cents, lol
[07:56] <superm1> well configuration is < 1k, the ~.mythtv directory is around 9-50 megs depending on the theme you choose
[08:00] <mkrufky> hmm... why store the themes there and not a symlink?
[08:00] <superm1> well its cached content
[08:00] <superm1> scaled
[08:00] <superm1> to your resolution
[08:00] <superm1> that you use
[08:01] <mkrufky> :-/
[08:01] <mkrufky> personally, i think i'd prefer to let it render every boot, and store it in a ramdisk
[08:06] <superm1> well there is an option for that
[08:06] <superm1> that i added
[08:06] <superm1> because i had a feeling not everyone would want to do it this way
[08:08] <mkrufky> ok, good :-)
[08:09] <superm1> actually if you really want, you can just inject the configuration into /media/SOMETHING in the cd image if you want then
[08:09] <superm1> and do it all read only
[08:10] <mkrufky> yes... but that would mean that if you re-do your backend config and / or network / db stuff, that you'd have to re-spin a new frontend system
[08:11] <superm1> well reinject the configuration file
[08:11] <superm1> at least
[08:11] <mkrufky> true
[08:11] <mkrufky> that would also work
[08:12] <superm1> i dont think i said above, but mythbuntu first release is going to be 0.21 based
[08:12] <superm1> so if 0.21 is pushed back we will be too
[08:12] <superm1> but laga is tracking trunk and has packaging to support it
[08:13] <mkrufky> very cool
[08:16] <superm1> laga, you missing a prerm?
[08:17] <superm1> laga, that appears to be your trouble
[08:19] <superm1> grab the mythweb.prerm from the -fixes branch