[00:00] <yofel> should be mostly the same from what I heard
[00:04] <coz_> hey all
[00:04] <yofel> hey coz_
[00:05] <coz_> yofel,  hey guy :)
[00:16] <penguin42> hey can some one paste bin a boot dmesg from a machine that boots reasonably fast?
[00:17] <coz_> penguin42,  my installation seems to be boot finiky... sometimes boots to login sometimes doesnt
[00:17] <penguin42> what happens when it doens't?
[00:17] <coz_> penguin42,  black screen  and I hit ctrl+alt+ delete
[00:17] <yofel> penguin42: http://paste.ubuntu.com/554543/
[00:18] <coz_> penguin42,  reboots at that point
[00:18] <yofel> coz_: can you switch to tty at that point?
[00:18] <penguin42> yofel: Thanks - you sure you got enough discs on there?
[00:19] <coz_> yofel,  no   not at all
[00:19] <yofel> penguin42: yep, well, one is actually a 2 chip SSD connected by RAID0
[00:19] <penguin42> yeh
[00:19] <coz_> yofel,  not sure if it has to do with my scsi drives... ubuntu seems to be a bit finiky about scsi
[00:19] <yofel> coz_: does sysrq+k help? (alt+print+k) ?
[00:20] <coz_> yofel,   didnt try it ...will try on next boot though
[00:20] <coz_> sorry about that
[00:20] <coz_> damn fingers
[00:20] <yofel> that should kill anything on the tty you're on, including stuck plymouth or hung X
[00:21] <coz_> yofel,  I dont think its hangin   a  ctrl+alt+delete simply reboots the system immediately ...I dont think its even getting to grub
[00:21] <penguin42> yofel: OK, so the reason I asked was that in quite a few logs I've seen there is a big gap between the last disc mount and the 1st udev message - yours ther eisn't
[00:22] <yofel> coz_: depends where it is, if it didn't do much more than mount the disks then rebooting shouldn't take more than a second or 2
[00:22] <yofel> coz_: try to get to the grub menu though to make sure you get there
[00:22] <coz_> yofel,  which seems like what's happeniing
[00:22] <coz_> yofel,   cant get to grub menu at all.
[00:22] <BluesKaj> hehe, got my belkin usb wifi adapter working ,  which wouldn't work since jaunty ...go figure :)
[00:23] <yofel> hold left shift on bios init (I think)
[00:23] <coz_> :)
[00:23] <coz_> yofel,  unfortunately I tried that as well  ...nothing
[00:24] <BluesKaj> somebody fixed network-manager-kde ...whoever they I'd like to thank them
[00:24] <coz_> yofel,   I have to put  rootdelay=40 into default grub on natty  and maverick...I believe  lucid was ok dont recall... to avoid dropping to busybox.. initramfs
[00:24] <BluesKaj> whoever they are that is
[00:25] <coz_> there seems to be a nautilus issue  with the last few updates
[00:25] <yofel> coz_: o.O - does it actually show an error on boot before dropping to initramfs shell?
[00:26] <coz_> yofel,   no ...   when initramfs pops up  I just type   exit and it boots
[00:26] <coz_> yofel,   I have brought this up on numerous bug reports  because it never used to happen
[00:26] <coz_> yofel,  so apparenlty someone changed boot senario  for scsi devices
[00:27] <penguin42> that's weird - it could bit it's taking too long for the scsi devices to appear
[00:27] <yofel> try to replace 'quiet splash' with '--verbose' maybe, that'll make upstart more verbose (but it sound like it doesn't even get to start init :S)
[00:27] <coz_> so with a rootdelay=40   i do not have quick boots
[00:27] <penguin42> so, it gives up, drops you to initramfs but then it's managed it
[00:27] <coz_> penguin42,  right
[00:28] <coz_> I generally would have to wait about 3 seconds before typing   exit
[00:28] <coz_> I believe lucid  or jaunty  maybe didnt have this issue  not any version prior to that
[00:28] <penguin42> coz_: I've got odd boot delay problems on mine - it takes ~90 seconds to boot - it's just sitting there for some odd reason
[00:28] <coz_> penguin42,  I have noticed that as well
[00:28] <penguin42> lucid was fine, maverick was about 30, and natty is nearer 90
[00:29] <coz_> penguin42,   painful :)
[00:29] <coz_> natty has the fastest  shutdown though :)
[00:30] <Amaranth> penguin42: intel graphics?
[00:30] <penguin42> no, ati
[05:11] <gnomefreak> yay it seems i got unity working :) not sure how or why it is working now other than it is a pretty basic setup
[05:28] <gnomefreak> anyone else have windows grey out while using them? for example i was running firefox and irssi and firefox kept greying out, when i right clicked on a word "spell check" and the right click menu bounced all over the place at least to the right.
[05:39] <gnomefreak> anyone else unable to use "ubuntu-bugs <packagename>"?
[05:41] <yofel> it's ubuntu-bug
[05:41] <gnomefreak> yofel: doesnt work with or without the s
[05:41] <gnomefreak> same error
[05:42] <yofel> hm, apport-kde starts fine, apport-cli works fine too - so what's the error?
[05:43] <gnomefreak> yofel: one minute am i posting it to pastebin
[05:44] <gnomefreak> yofel: http://paste.ubuntu.com/554610/
[05:45] <gnomefreak> ah adding tthe s in bug seems to just error on it not being a command, but ubuntu-bug should work. maybe caused by the ayatana API?
[05:45] <yofel> hm, maybe something broke with that recent dbus stuff
[05:45] <yofel> use apport-cli until it's fixed
[05:46] <gnomefreak> apport-cli packagename?
[05:46] <yofel> yep
[05:46] <gnomefreak> thanks
[05:47] <gyger> anyone else able to install the unity files and application places yet?
[05:47] <gyger> i ask bc i have not,
[05:49] <gnomefreak> yofel: http://paste.ubuntu.com/554612/
[05:50] <gnomefreak> gyger: no just what you get from apt-get upgrade, som eof unity packages are held back due to the API changes
[05:50] <yofel> there is no openoffice package, and what does 'apt-cache policy openoffice.org' tell you? (pastebin)
[05:50] <gnomefreak> i used upgrade adn unity works here
[05:51] <gnomefreak> yofel: openoffice.org - office productivity suite   is a package
[05:51] <yofel> openoffice.org yes, openoffice no
[05:51] <gyger> gnomefreak: i have unity... just none of the really cool places that from what i heard were supposed to land thursday-ish... thats what i get for listening to the news
[05:53]  * gnomefreak not sure what you heard but until the API changes are implemented alot of packages are held back
[05:53] <gnomefreak> see topic for more info
[05:54] <gnomefreak> yofel: they both give same output
[05:54] <yofel> gnomefreak: well, what's the apt-cache policy output?
[05:54] <yofel> pastebin the  full output please
[05:55] <gnomefreak> let me check held back packages to see if API bug is causing this. i cant pstebin the whole search output, IIRC there is a limit on how much you post to pastebin.ubuntu
[05:56] <gnomefreak> oh you want policy ok one minute
[05:56] <yofel> since the .org once errors with non-genuine - I need the policy output there
[05:57] <gnomefreak> yofel: i get this feeling that openoffice was removed  since it is not installed here, not sure if it due to having libreoffice repo, but even than i dont have that installed due to the depends. they are kde/qt deps
[05:59] <gnomefreak> i added oplicy for libreoffice just to show you it is not installed either http://paste.ubuntu.com/554613/
[06:00] <yofel> that isn't the problem - the problem is that the candidate comes from "      500 http://ppa.launchpad.net/libreoffice/ppa/ubuntu/ natty/main i386 Packages" - which isn't an official ubuntu repository -> apport doesn't support filing PPA bugs unless explicitely told to do so
[06:00] <gnomefreak> yofel: here is dpkg -l openoffice* output http://paste.ubuntu.com/554614/
[06:01] <gnomefreak> yofel: that should not effect OO.o since libre is not installed either
[06:01] <yofel> gnomefreak: doesn't matter, the candidate to be installed is from the PPA -> apport will fails
[06:01] <yofel> *fail
[06:02] <gnomefreak> just having the archive should not effect anything, however when i run dist-upgrade it shos that openoffice is going to be upgraded however it is held back due to APi changes
[06:02] <yofel> having the PPA enabled does affect apport, in this case it's nonsense, but apport will still think it's a PPA package
[06:03] <gnomefreak> see http://paste.ubuntu.com/554615/ for output from upgrade
[06:04] <yofel> since I don't have much gnome stuff installed here my list isn't as long, but I've got things kept back too
[06:04] <gnomefreak> how would OO.o have anything to do with libreoffce since both can be installed side by side. apport used to be able to ignore the PPA and still work fine
[06:05] <gyger> im just curious: is there a place where we can see how the api change is coming along...
[06:06] <gnomefreak> gyger: other than the link in /t i havent looked further maybe there is a bug on it. i only read that one email but im sure there is replys to the message in /t
[06:07] <gnomefreak> yofel: i will  disable libre PPa and see what happens. but if you look at the dpkg -l output it shows openoffice.org is installed however policy shows it is not. be back in a few minutes need a smoke
[06:08] <gyger> gnomefreak:  /t == topic?
[06:08] <gyger> sorry
[06:09] <yofel> gnomefreak: that dpkg -l output has cropped package names - you would need to get the full names for the output to be useful
[06:13] <gnomefreak> yofel: http://paste.ubuntu.com/554616/  now im going for a smoke while you read it  gyger yes /t or /topic can be used to read topic
[06:13] <gyger> gnomefreak: thx
[06:21] <gnomefreak> yofel: here is a better dpkg -l http://paste.ubuntu.com/554617/
[06:22] <gnomefreak> i guess i can try apport on openoffice.org-gnome or openoffice.org-gtk but by the output of every other ubuntu-bug i would say its apport that has the problem
[06:22] <yofel> try to use 'apport-cli openoffice.org-core' to report whatever you want to report
[06:23] <yofel> gnomefreak: no, apport-gtk as serious problems with gio - thus unusable until fixed, use apport-cli
[06:23] <yofel> or apport-kde, but I guess you don't want that
[06:30] <gnomefreak> yeah apport-cli seems to work
[06:35] <gnomefreak> still not sure why firefox is greying out when being used
[06:39] <gnomefreak> to replace OO.o with Libreoffice is a bad idea until/if they make a gnome/gtk packages as of right now kde/qt apps/libs are to be installed
[08:07] <wzssyqa> is there something wrong with cairo-dock metapackage and cairo-dock-plug-ins which did not update to libwebkitgtk?
[09:35] <dupondje> gdm partly broken ? get no desktop items / filemanager doens't start ?
[10:49] <geser> my classic desktop started today without problems (even my gnome-panel was visible from beginning)
[11:21] <danyR> hi everyone. is anyone else not getting tomboy/gwibber/transmission quicklists in Unity 3.2.12 (newest version)?
[13:14] <BluesKaj> hi all
[14:18] <BUGabundo> yo o/
[14:19] <BUGabundo> soooo much breakage
[14:19] <BUGabundo> can't even start nautilus
[14:19] <BUGabundo> compiz is broken too
[14:21] <charlie-tca> Hello, BUGabundo
[14:21] <charlie-tca> Must be a really good release coming, huh?
[14:22] <BUGabundo> LOL
[14:22] <BUGabundo> so unity is a mess and classic doesn't work
[14:23] <BUGabundo> are we making a Desktop environment. or a Cloud OS? :)
[14:24] <charlie-tca> I didn't think anyone got Cloud to work yet, did they?
[14:24] <BluesKaj> kde seems to have weathered the upgrade quite well
[14:24] <penguin42> gnome classic desktop on <--- is OK, and KDE 4 on ---> is OK
[14:25] <BUGabundo> penguin42: full upgrade?
[14:25] <BUGabundo> I've got a bunch of miss match upgrages
[14:25] <BUGabundo> one of them wants to remove ubuntu-desktop
[14:25] <penguin42> BUGabundo: I upgraded <--- prior to Alpha1 and ---> more recently
[14:25] <penguin42> yeh I think ubuntu-desktop did go at one point - but it's only a meta
[14:26] <BUGabundo> I do upgrades daily :)
[14:26] <BUGabundo> isn't that how it is supposed to be done?
[14:27] <BUGabundo> how do you like that  ? http://p.bugabundo.net/a-francesinha
[14:29] <BUGabundo> The following packages will be upgraded:
[14:29] <BUGabundo>   bamfdaemon banshee banshee-extension-soundmenu gimp libbamf0 libubuntuone-1.0-1 python-webkit rhythmbox rhythmbox-plugin-cdrecorder rhythmbox-plugins  shotwell yelp
[14:29] <BUGabundo> The following packages are RECOMMENDED but will NOT be installed:
[14:29] <BUGabundo>   banshee-extension-ubuntuonemusicstore
[14:29] <BUGabundo> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[14:29] <BUGabundo>   libwebkitgtk-1.0-common: Conflicts: libwebkit-1.0-common but 1.2.5-0ubuntu3 is installed.
[14:31] <charlie-tca> the   libwebkitgtk    is what I am waiting for. I don't know if I want to run upgrades until it is resolved.
[14:31] <BUGabundo> I had to manually install a few
[14:31] <BUGabundo> to break dependecies
[14:31] <BUGabundo> its all messed up
[14:32] <BUGabundo> The following packages will be REMOVED:  banshee{a} banshee-extension-soundmenu{a} libgkeyfile1.0-cil{u} libgudev1.0-cil{u} libmono-zeroconf1.0-cil{u} libtaglib2.0-cil{u}
[14:32] <BUGabundo> The following packages will be upgraded:  bamfdaemon libbamf0
[14:32] <BUGabundo> not the best alternative :s
[14:33] <evilvish> ha! \o/ i
[14:33] <evilvish> 'm not alone...
[14:33] <BUGabundo> evil ?
[14:33] <BUGabundo> heck
[14:33]  * BUGabundo presses YES
[14:34] <evilvish> yea.. kinda annoying, had to mark and try not to break anything.. :/
[14:34] <evilvish> BUGabundo: was always evil.. just made it official ;p
[14:35] <BUGabundo> lol
[14:37] <evilvish> what's the national layout/standard latin layout?
[14:37] <yofel> hm, seems like you really need to have gnome or unity installed to have breakage these days
[14:37] <yofel> 0 packages upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
[14:37] <yofel> boring..
[14:38] <BUGabundo> ahahaha
[14:38] <evilvish> yofel: just a few more releases, and we'll make it interesting you KDE too ;)
[14:38] <evilvish> interesting for*
[14:38] <yofel> I'll just have to wait for kde 4.7 :P
[14:39] <evilvish> regarding the layout? what's it for? i just selected the default "caps lock" and installed..
[14:40] <yofel> that felt ages ago.. I think I went with no combination for the switcher
[14:40] <yofel> it messed up my console setup though back then
[14:40] <evilvish> yea, i had not updated for a week..
[14:40] <evilvish> oh! 0.o
[14:41] <yofel> preferring us or afghanistan for a german keyboard is suboptimal
[14:41] <yofel> thatks god us was the default
[14:41] <yofel> *thanks
[14:42] <BUGabundo> now u made me recall the migration of KDE 3.5 to 4.0
[14:42] <BUGabundo> oh man, that was messed up
[14:42] <penguin42> oh yeh, the us,af bug is the funnest one of this cycle so far
[14:42] <BUGabundo> I had to build batches based on trunk, just so I could use some apps
[14:43] <evilvish> well, next cycle will probably be gnome 2.x > 3.0 , which will be equally messed up ;)
[14:43] <BUGabundo> good time to move to unity then :)
[14:43] <BUGabundo> NOT
[14:58] <BUGabundo> so now I need a file explorer that works, till nautilus is fixed
[14:58] <BUGabundo> suggestions?
[14:58] <penguin42> is it thunar from xfce ?
[14:59] <BUGabundo> no idea
[14:59] <penguin42> yeh, thunar
[15:01] <BUGabundo> The following NEW packages will be installed:
[15:01] <BUGabundo>   exo-utils{a} libexo-1-0{a} libexo-common{a} libgarcon-1-0{a} libgarcon-common{a} libthunarx-2-0{a} libtumbler-1-0{a} libxfce4ui-1-0{a}   libxfce4util-bin{a} libxfce4util-common{a} libxfce4util4{a} libxfconf-0-2{a} thunar thunar-data{a} thunar-volman{a} tumbler{a} tumbler-common{a}   xfce-keyboard-shortcuts{a} xfce4-panel{a} xfconf{a}
[15:01] <BUGabundo> penguin42: hummm not the best alternative :(
[15:01]  * BUGabundo smacks charlie-tca
[15:01] <penguin42> shrugs
[15:02] <BUGabundo> what does KDE use this days?
[15:02] <BUGabundo> dolphin?
[15:02] <penguin42> yeh
[15:02] <BUGabundo>   dolphin kfind{a} libkonq5-templates{a} libkonq5a{a}
[15:03] <charlie-tca> huh
[15:03]  * charlie-tca just woke up after getting slapped so hard
[15:04] <BUGabundo> ahah
[15:04] <charlie-tca> didn't I say don't do that yet?
[15:04] <BUGabundo> :(
[15:04]  * BUGabundo hugs charlie-tca
[15:15] <rye> hi, anybody here having any issues with nautilus crashing ater the latest update?
[15:15] <charlie-tca> BUGabundo: ^ ^
[15:16] <BUGabundo> blast... dolphin is not previewing jpgs :(
[15:16] <BUGabundo> rye: dead for me
[15:17] <BUGabundo> nothing in xsession-errors
[15:18] <rye> BUGabundo, i have the stack trace
[15:18] <BUGabundo> not here
[15:18] <rye> Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
[15:18] <rye> net_workarea_changed (icon_view=0xbb9400, window=<value optimized out>)
[15:18] <rye>     at fm-desktop-icon-view.c:272
[15:18] <BUGabundo> maybe some plugin
[15:19] <om26er> is it *-0ubuntu5 ?
[15:19] <BUGabundo>   Installed: 1:<IP_ADDRESS>-0ubuntu5
[15:20] <om26er> didrocks patched nautilus for a crash few hours ago, seems that caused it, report the bug and subscribe him I would say
[15:20] <rye> <IP_ADDRESS>-0ubuntu4
[15:20] <rye> i believe i am outdated then
[15:21] <BUGabundo> rye: 5 doesn't work either
[15:21] <BUGabundo> let me see if I have the old one to downgrade
[15:22] <BUGabundo> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root  1.3M 2011-01-11 18:05 nautilus_1%3a<IP_ADDRESS>-0ubuntu3_amd64.deb
[15:22] <BUGabundo> with me luck
[15:22] <BUGabundo> *wish
[15:23] <BUGabundo> s$ sudo dpkg -i nautilus_1%3a<IP_ADDRESS>-0ubuntu3_amd64.deb nautilus-data_1%3a<IP_ADDRESS>-0ubuntu3_all.deb libnautilus-extension1_1%3a<IP_ADDRESS>-0ubuntu3_amd64.deb
[15:28] <charlie-tca> good luck, BUGabundo
[15:29] <BUGabundo> no luck
[15:29] <BUGabundo> doesn't start
[15:29] <BUGabundo> so something else is messing it
[15:29] <BUGabundo> not just nautilus packages
[15:31] <rye> hm -0ubuntu5 worked for me
[15:32] <BUGabundo> strange
[15:32] <BUGabundo> maybe I need a reboot
[15:33] <Amaranth> I am as up-to-date as I can get without uninstalling important things and everything works for me
[15:34] <Amaranth> I don't have the latest compiz, unity, or indicator stuff since they are all kinds of fubar right now
[15:34] <Amaranth> We are going through a compiz plugin ABI change and a dbusmenu ABI change at the same time
[15:35] <Amaranth> So those all fail for using the wrong compiz or the wrong dbusmenu
[15:36]  * BluesKaj decides to postpone gnome desktop for a bit ...maybe in a few weeks I'll try it on my other natty install
[15:39] <BUGabundo> Amaranth: latest compiz here
[15:39] <BUGabundo> just not extra
[15:40]  * Amaranth pushed an extras package to bzr
[15:40] <Amaranth> I guess I should just upload it
[15:40] <BluesKaj> in the meantime kde4.6RC2 seems to be holding it's own
[15:43] <BUGabundo> Amaranth: The following packages have unmet dependencies:  compiz-fusion-plugins-extra: Depends: compiz-core-abiversion-20101111 which is a virtual package.
[15:43] <Amaranth> BUGabundo: I know
[15:44] <BUGabundo> kk
[15:44] <Amaranth> BUGabundo: here in a couple minutes a new package will be heading for the archive
[15:44] <Amaranth> well, heading for the build queue anyway
[15:45] <BUGabundo> thanks
[15:45] <Amaranth> I thought didrocks did it on friday... :/
[15:48] <BUGabundo> Chocolate Chunk Cookies!
[16:00] <IdleOne> !info gimp
[16:11] <Amaranth> BUGabundo: I'm a little rusty on package uploading so it took longer than expected but a new extra package is uploaded now
[16:11] <BUGabundo> :)
[16:11] <Amaranth> BUGabundo: You'll have it by the end of the day, at any rate
[16:11] <BUGabundo> no hurry
[16:11] <Amaranth> Just have to wait for build and publish
[16:11] <BUGabundo> I can't even start regular compiz right now
[16:11] <BUGabundo> so extra has time
[17:01] <evilvish> BUGabundo: $ gksudo nautilus  works..
[17:01] <evilvish> just to have a file manager for now..
[17:02] <BUGabundo> LOL
[17:02] <BUGabundo> and breaking everything else
[17:02] <BUGabundo> so is it dbus and user land?
[17:12] <MrMeh_> I'm trying to test out unity-2d, but whenever i try installing unity-2d-default-settings, it tells me that it wont be installed! http://paste.ubuntu.com/554785/
[17:16] <penguin42> oh I didn't know that existed - I'm glad it does
[17:17] <penguin42> MrMeh_: Sounds like some broken/changing packages
[17:18] <MrMeh_> penguin42 at the end, it tells me that it's related to libunity0, but it still doesnt want to install! :/
[17:19] <MrMeh_> It has no reason for not installing, it just doesn't want to; it just hates me! :(
[17:33] <MrMeh_> Okay In order to get Unity 2D installed, I have to get libunity0 install. However, that libindicator1 as a dependency. When I tried to install it, it told me that it's gonna remove everything including Unity itself, software center, transmission, nautilus, etc!! Help?
[17:33] <yofel> see /topic - the package probably still needs to be fixed
[17:34] <MrMeh_> Other people were able to install this.
[17:34] <yofel> I can't install libindicator1 and unity at the same time either
[17:39] <dupondje> BUGabundo: nautilus also broken here :(
[17:39] <robbit10> I read in the alpha 1 release notes, that Ubuntu+1 will use Unity. Does that mean having Unity as the default desktop, in the desktop edition? Not the netbook one, but desktop? In other words, Ubuntu is moving on to a different interface?
[17:40] <yofel> yep, unity will be the default desktop shell
[17:40] <robbit10> finally some drastic changes in the Ubuntu desktop
[17:41] <WaltherFI> Wait a second - a tablet-like UI as default?
[17:42] <dupondje> Any hints on what app I best use to make a backup of my whole system ?
[17:43] <robbit10> Unity looks very promising. Is the stable netbook version in Ubuntu 10.10 usable on a desktop computer?
[17:46] <charlie-tca> Why would you want that if Natty is available for the desktop?
[17:47] <WaltherFI> charlie-tca: face it, some people don't want to use a dev version that is not even alpha 2
[18:03] <evilvish> o.0
[18:04] <charlie-tca> Then they should be in #ubuntu instead of #ubuntu+1
[18:05] <charlie-tca> WaltherFI: by being in this channel, they are looking at Natty, the development version. Not the stable releases :-)
[18:06] <WaltherFI> charlie-tca: still, this is one of the support channels right? you should ansewer the questions - maybe some people are indeed "looking at" the dev version
[18:06] <charlie-tca> um, this is only support for development versions
[18:07] <evilvish> WaltherFI: charlie-tca nor anyone else here does not *have* to ans any Q
[18:08] <WaltherFI> oh, i did not mean to be offensive, don't get mad please
[18:08] <evilvish> cool.. :)
[18:09] <WaltherFI> but like him, i am thoroughly interested at the idea of unity being the default
[18:09] <WaltherFI> and i am not sure if i am interested at the idea in a positive way
[18:10] <evilvish> WaltherFI: unity is the default for Ubuntu 11.04 , and yes it is modelled over the netbook UI, but will have modifications to suit desktop usage
[18:10] <charlie-tca> The fact is that this is a very specialised support channel. It is not for general help
[18:10] <evilvish> so is gnome-shell btw
[18:11] <WaltherFI> hmm... what about the current gnome-desktop?
[18:12] <WaltherFI> is it going to be discontinued / unsupported?
[18:12] <mlmg317-himts> K.  So I just upgraded to Natty Narwhal.  Now - when I try to run "sudo freshclam" in Terminal - it tells me freshclam.log is locked by another process - and that there is a problem with the internal logger.  How do I fix this?
[18:12] <richthegeek> hi all - how is Unity meant to work with 2+ monitors?
[18:13] <mlmg317-himts> This has never happened before.  I was told that Natty Narwhal is not yet released and not yet stable.  Thoughts?
[18:13] <yofel> WaltherFI: current gnome desktop is available as classic desktop and will probably be replaced by gnome 3 in natty+1
[18:13] <mlmg317-himts> For starters - how do I unlock freshclam.log - or any other file for that matter?
[18:13] <WaltherFI> mlmg317-himts: sorry to say, but it is not even alpha 2 stage yet, so you'll probably run into many random errors
[18:14] <yofel> mlmg317-himts: try to use lsof on the logfile, that might tell you what process is locking it
[18:14] <WaltherFI> yofel: so unity will be default in natty, and we go back in gnome at natty+1 ?
[18:14] <yofel> WaltherFI: that I do not know
[18:14] <WaltherFI> not rational, imo
[18:15] <mlmg317-himts> yofel: So I run "lsof" in Terminal?  You might have to step me through this a bit ...
[18:15] <yofel> mlmg317-himts: lsof <file>
[18:15] <richthegeek> mlmg317-himts: lsof = list open files - depending on what you want you can filter by UID, PID, (grep for) directory, etc..
[18:16] <mlmg317-himts> yofel: OK.  So when I run "lsof freshclam.log" - it tells me there is no such file or directory.  I'm like, "WHAT !?"
[18:16] <mlmg317-himts> yofel: This is WACKED OUT ...
[18:17] <richthegeek> mlmg317-himts: it just means that that file is not currently open (being used, thus "locked") in the system
[18:17] <WaltherFI> mlmg317-himts: where is the file located
[18:17] <WaltherFI> mlmg317-himts: you can't just run it on /home, can you
[18:17] <WaltherFI> the file is somewhere else
[18:17] <WaltherFI> i guess
[18:18] <mlmg317-himts> WaltherFI: No - I usually run it on the entire file system.  I don't really know where it is located.  Can't I run a command in Terminal to figure this out?
[18:18] <richthegeek> locate
[18:19] <mlmg317-himts> WaltherFI: OK - /var/log/clamav ...
[18:20] <WaltherFI> mlmg317-himts: cd there, then run the lsof command
[18:21] <mlmg317-himts> WaltherFI: K.  Done.  Now what?
[18:21] <WaltherFI> mlmg317-himts: what does it show now?
[18:21] <mlmg317-himts> WaltherFI: A very long list of stuff ...
[18:21] <richthegeek> it'll show you the PID of the process locking that file, using "kill -1 ###" on it
[18:21] <mlmg317-himts> WaltherFI: What should I be looking for?
[18:22] <WaltherFI> mlmg317-himts: well now you see the list of processes that lock the file
[18:22] <yofel> mlmg317-himts: did you run lsof <file> in the clamav folder? just lsof will list all open files
[18:24] <mlmg317-himts> WaltherFI: Maybe I'm doing something wrong.  So I have ".... /var/log/clamav$ ... then I paste "lsof ... [WHAT?]"
[18:24] <yofel> mlmg317-himts: the file you were looking for?
[18:25] <WaltherFI> mlmg317-himts: i don't personally know about that command, scroll up and see how the person above used the command
[18:26] <mlmg317-himts> yofel: I entered in "lsof freshclam.log".  I get nothing.  It just pops up "... /var/log/clamav$" again ...
[18:26] <yofel> hm, then the file shouldn't be locked...
[18:26] <yofel> maybe try sudo lsof..
[18:28] <mlmg317-himts> yofel: OK - there we go.  So now I get this result: "
[18:28] <mlmg317-himts> WARNING: can't stat() fuse file system /home/mlmg317-himts/.gvfs
[18:28] <mlmg317-himts>       Output information may be incomplete.
[18:28] <mlmg317-himts> yofel: What do you make of it?
[18:29] <yofel> ok, that's essentially none - should look similiar to this taking syslog as an example http://paste.ubuntu.com/554811/
[18:29] <tsimpson> root (or rather any user who isn't you) can't read fuse filesystems that it didn't mount
[18:29] <yofel> does freshclam still fail?
[18:30] <mlmg317-himts> yofel: Yes.  Just tried running "sudo freshclam" again - same result ...
[18:30] <mlmg317-himts> tsimpson: You'll have to explain a little further - I don't quite understand ...
[18:30] <yofel> then I'm personally out of ideas
[18:31] <mlmg317-himts> tsimpson: fuse filesystems?
[18:31] <mlmg317-himts> tsimpson: Then what do you suggest?
[18:31] <tsimpson> mlmg317-himts: well, gvfs is fuse-like, as it's all in userspace
[18:32] <tsimpson> just ignore the warning from lsof there, that's all I meant
[18:33] <mlmg317-himts> yofel: OK - so tsimpson said to ignore the warning.  So it does list the file "freshclam.log" ... so the file IS there ...
[18:33] <mlmg317-himts> yofel: Man this annoying ...
[18:33] <yofel> mlmg317-himts: what does lsof list the file?
[18:33] <yofel> *what,
[18:33] <mlmg317-himts> yofel: ?
[18:33] <yofel> mlmg317-himts: does lsof list the file or not?
[18:34] <mlmg317-himts> yofel:
[18:34] <mlmg317-himts> COMMAND    PID   USER   FD   TYPE DEVICE SIZE/OFF   NODE NAME
[18:34] <mlmg317-himts> freshclam 1313 clamav    3wW  REG    8,1      823 394925 freshclam.log
[18:34] <yofel> see, freshclam is already running!
[18:34] <mlmg317-himts> yofel: Oh really.  OK - so how do I know when it's finished?
[18:35] <yofel> no idea, I don't use clamav myself
[18:35] <mlmg317-himts> yofel: That would be why ...
[18:35] <yofel> maybe it was triggered by cron
[18:35] <mlmg317-himts> yofel: Interesting ...
[18:35] <mlmg317-himts> yofel: cron.  What's that?
[18:35] <yofel> automatic, scheduled service execution - read the manpage
[18:36] <mlmg317-himts> yofel: OK - very good.  So it does auto updates now in Natty Narwhal?
[18:36] <yofel> maybe? I don't know
[18:36] <mlmg317-himts> yofel: Interesting.  Well - I'll come back to this later ...
[18:36] <mlmg317-himts> yofel: Thank you, though !!!
[18:36] <yofel> np
[18:55] <ari-tczew> does java works fine on natty?
[18:55] <ari-tczew> my firefox couldn
[18:55] <ari-tczew> could not handle with some java cases
[19:20] <coz_> is anyone experiencing nautilus restarting after making changes  with nvidia or  cairo dock..or opening or closing certain applications
[20:18] <MickStep> Hey anyone running natty and using the nvidia driver?
[20:18] <MickStep> I need some help diagnosing a bug and getting it confirmed
[20:20] <yofel> here, what's the bug though?
[20:20] <MickStep> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=637757
[20:20] <MickStep> Banshee crasher
[20:21] <MickStep> I just discovered it the crash doesn't happen when your running metacity, so it's compiz related
[20:21] <yofel> I don't use either, so probably can't help
[20:21]  * yofel uses KDE
[20:22] <MickStep> you could always install compiz
[20:22] <MickStep> and banshee
[20:22] <yofel> sure, but I'm not going to try compiz-kde, that usually crashes by itself, and installing gnome will take a while
[20:22] <MickStep> enable the kde plugin in compiz and do compiz --replace
[20:23] <rww> People actually run Compiz instead of KWin o.O?
[20:23] <MickStep> rww: evidently some nutters do
[20:23] <MickStep> very few I suspect
[20:23] <yofel> they do, we get a few people asking for help in #kubuntu about compiz-kde being broken. I don't like it
[20:23] <yofel> esp. since it really doesn't get much Q/A
[20:23] <MickStep> some people just like to be different
[20:24] <rww> I guess the quest for fire-emitting wobbly windows on a cube knows no bounds.
[20:24] <yofel> probably...
[20:24] <MickStep> rww: indeed
[20:24] <MickStep> so no one else running nvidia?
[20:26] <charlie-tca> I run nvidia with Xubuntu, not with compiz
[20:27] <MickStep> charlie-tca: cool, just install compiz and do compiz --replace, it's easily remedied with a metacity --replace, no lasting harm done.
[20:27] <charlie-tca> heh, I have had a really bad time with compiz
[20:28] <charlie-tca> but let me boot my spare up
[20:28] <MickStep> charlie-tca: you'll only have to run it long enough to allow banshee to crash
[20:28] <MickStep> charlie-tca: thanks
[20:28] <charlie-tca> and it is so important I don't time to throw an nvidia card in the spare and boot it?
[20:30] <MickStep> I don't know, whether it's important enough for your time is up to you.
[20:30] <MickStep> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=637757 That's the bug
[20:31] <charlie-tca> booting now
[20:32] <charlie-tca> natty with nvidia with hardware drivers?
[20:32] <MickStep> yeah
[20:41] <charlie-tca> losing fast here. no hardware driver wants to install today
[20:42] <MickStep> odd
[20:42] <MickStep> what happens if you do sudo apt-get install nvidia-glx-180 in the terminal
[20:43] <bjsnider> that package does not exist
[20:44] <MickStep> 185 then, that one does exist
[20:44] <yofel> that was a transitional package
[20:44] <yofel> the proper package is nvidia-current
[20:44] <yofel> and you should use jockey anyway
[20:45] <Chelsea> Hi all, Mesa 7.10 and X 1.1 are coming to 11.04.... Can anyone explain what that means?
[20:45] <yofel> new Xserver and opengl libs?
[20:45] <MickStep> fair enough listen to yofel
[20:48] <MickStep> charlie-tca: Any luck?
[20:48] <charlie-tca> installing the nvidia driver
[20:48] <MickStep> cool
[20:49] <charlie-tca> seems like my computer doesn't like changing between nvidia and ATI
[20:50] <MickStep> charlie-tca: I've ran into problems with that in the past
[20:54] <charlie-tca> Okay, I give up
[20:54] <MickStep> :(
[20:54] <charlie-tca> can't install banshee due to broken dependcies on libwebkitgtk
[20:54] <MickStep> yeah I had that problem the other day
[20:55] <MickStep> What it is, is that some other applications depend on a different version of libwebkit gtk, midori is one of them
[20:55] <MickStep> you can install the version banshee wants but it will uninstall midori
[20:56] <charlie-tca> What caused midori to install?
[20:56] <charlie-tca> this is a default installation of Ubuntu
[20:56] <MickStep> I installed it myself personally
[20:57] <MickStep> it might be another program pulling the other webkit
[20:57] <MickStep> there was a few
[20:57] <charlie-tca> well, maybe in a few days, when this stuff gets fixed, it will work, then.
[20:58] <MickStep> if you do sudo apt-get install libwebkitgtk-1.0-0 it will prompt you with a list of what is going to be uninstalled
[20:58] <MickStep> then you can choose not to do it
[21:01] <MickStep> Anyone else with nvidia and natty?
[21:01] <MickStep> thanks for the effort charlie :)
[21:05] <charlie-tca> You are welcome
[21:46] <BUGabundo> hey guys
[21:47] <BUGabundo> got a friend with an i5 that's not being set on demand
[21:47] <BUGabundo> any tips?
[21:49] <yofel> hm, that should be done by /etc/init.d/ondemand sometime after boot
[21:50] <yofel> maybe check what 'cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu*/cpufreq/scaling_available_governors' gives, should return one line per cpu containing
[21:50] <yofel> conservative ondemand userspace powersave performance
[21:50] <yofel> if that's the case then the init script doesn't get run I guess
[21:50] <BUGabundo> thanks yofel
[21:51] <BUGabundo> was looking for the path
[21:51] <BUGabundo> giving him a new kernel from the PPA
[21:58] <BUGabundo> yofel: you know of any cli way to change all cores?
[21:59] <BUGabundo> I used to echo , but that's single core old times
[21:59] <BUGabundo> even gnome applet takes ONE per CORE
[21:59] <yofel> not really. maybe use echo with a wildard, but I haven't tried that yet
[22:00] <yofel> hm, that won't work
[22:00] <BUGabundo> don't expect it to work
[22:00] <BUGabundo> what's  drm-intel-next branch ?
[22:03] <psusi> BUGabundo, one echo per core...
[22:04] <BUGabundo> :(
[22:04] <yofel> you could use a for loop in bash
[22:04] <BUGabundo> cpufreq-set -c 0 -g ondemand
[22:05] <psusi> I have cpufreq-selector, not cpufreq-set
[22:06] <BUGabundo> and -r does all cores
[22:06] <BUGabundo> psusi: he is on maverick
[22:06] <BUGabundo> maybe diff app
[22:07] <BUGabundo> oh he installed cpufreq
[22:07] <psusi> so am I.. looks liek you have to install cpufrequtils package for that one
[22:08] <BUGabundo> maybe
[22:09] <BUGabundo> Couldn't find package "cpufreq".  However, the following
[22:10] <BUGabundo>   cpufreq stats: 2.40 GHz:10.49%, 2.00 GHz:0.93%, 1.60 GHz:1.71%, 1.20 GHz:86.88%  (181040)
[22:11] <BUGabundo> I miss having an interactive scheduler
[22:12] <BUGabundo> ondemand is toooo slow
[22:19] <AndyE12> Hello, I just installed ubuntu natty Narwhal. Whenever I go to install updates I go from 700+ k/bs a sec and than it hangs to bytes per sec. From there it never moves and I just have to cancel it. Also, trying to install drivers from "Additional drivers" and it does the same thing. This happens wireless and wired - my network is fine when I dual boot to windows.
[22:20] <BUGabundo> AndyE12: change mirror ?
[22:22] <AndyE12> Just tried that - same result.
[22:23] <AndyE12> Went from 120k/bs and now sitting at 215 bytes/sec
[22:23] <AndyE12> Than it hangs
[22:23] <BUGabundo> strange
[22:23] <BUGabundo> please close all APT instance
[22:23] <BUGabundo> open a console and try this
[22:24] <BUGabundo> sudo apt-get update; sudo apt-get install aptitude
[22:24] <BUGabundo> sudo aptitude safe-upgrade
[22:26] <AndyE12> Unable to locate package safe-upgrade
[22:27] <BUGabundo> oops
[22:27] <BUGabundo> did you install aptitude ?
[22:28] <AndyE12> I can not install anything. Everything hangs after a few seconds
[22:28] <bjsnider> i think apt-get upgrade basically does the same thing as aptitude safe-upgrade at this point
[22:28] <BUGabundo> yeah
[22:29] <BUGabundo> but when you got messed dependecies, I've always been able to depend more on aptitude and less on apt-get
[22:30] <AndyE12> When trying to install aptitude I get "Waiting for jockey-backend to exit"
[22:31] <AndyE12> I also get that error when trying to do updates but got around it earlier and have not seen that error since this morning.
[22:31] <BUGabundo> strange
[22:31] <BUGabundo> can't reproduce here
[22:31] <BUGabundo> what GPU?
[22:32] <AndyE12> Ati
[22:33] <bjsnider> sudo killall jockey-backend
[22:33] <AndyE12> Download starts and than hangs
[22:35] <AndyE12> Grabbed a random file 100mb file and downloaded it and it ran at 1.2 mb sec and no hangs.
[22:48] <charlie-tca> I done good! upgraded both ati and nvidia installs, broke both of them... :-)
[22:48] <BUGabundo> lol
[22:49] <charlie-tca> Well, you know, if one don't work, try the other?
[22:52] <charlie-tca> well, that might have been bad, too
[22:57] <BUGabundo> night
[23:36] <Ohelig> I get a "Not all updates can be installed" when trying to update


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[12:16] <\sh> goldenear: http://linux.blogweb.de/archives/225-Windows-sucks,-Mac-sucks,-Gnome-Sucks-and-Kubuntu-Sucks,-too.html
[12:18] <goldenear> \sh: hehe :)
[12:19] <\sh> now he is famous ;)
[12:21] <\sh> ok...I'm off...cu tomorrow or we hear each other on teamspeak :)
[12:31] <toma> o oh
[12:32] <toma> a new kurt blog
[12:36] <toma> a its a summary of previous blogs
[01:05] <raphink> \sh_away: "Please enter your password." Which password? My personal account password? My administrator password? My god-mode password?
[01:05] <raphink> my goodness
[01:05] <raphink> this guy ddidn't ever try to understand that ubuntu/kubuntu users sudo
[01:05] <raphink> s/users/uses/
[01:06] <raphink> if our KDE needs some love
[01:06] <raphink> this guys really needs some, too
[04:40] <Ze_M> is possible that anyone can help me recover data i erased?
[08:21] <mornfall> morning
[08:21] <mornfall> so where's Riddell hiding? :P
[08:22] <DaSkreech> In Gay paris?
[08:22] <mornfall> well, i'm in paris too
[08:22] <jsgotangco> heh
[08:22] <Hobbsee> heya mornfall and DaSkreech
[08:22] <Hobbsee> mornfall: he got pretty burnt, he said, so...
[08:22] <mornfall> eyo Hobbsee
[08:23] <DaSkreech> Hi Hobbsee I assumed you were sleeping
[08:23] <DaSkreech> Ubrnt?
[08:23] <DaSkreech> burnt?
[08:24] <crimsun> (it's nearly 2:30 AM here)
[08:24] <DaSkreech> Oh right :-)
[08:24] <DaSkreech> Burnt?
[08:25] <Hobbsee> sunburnt
[08:26] <DaSkreech> Night shift?
[08:26] <Hobbsee> yes
[08:26] <Hobbsee> they called up, wanting me to start early
[08:27] <DaSkreech> Heh
[08:27] <DaSkreech> Well carry something to study :)
[08:28] <Hobbsee> i dont have more exams for anotehr week.
[08:28] <DaSkreech> Oh ..  Most adopted OS of all time)
[08:35] <nixternal> lol
[08:36] <DaSkreech> Catch you crew in a few
[08:37] <nixternal> l8r
[09:15] <kwwii> moin
[09:15] <Hobbsee> hi kwwii
[09:15] <kwwii> hi Hobbsee
[09:16] <Riddell-awa> hi Tonio_, kwwii, Hobbsee
[09:16] <Hobbsee> hey Riddell :)
[09:17] <Hobbsee> still burnt?
[09:17] <Tonio_> hi everyone
[09:17] <Riddell> you'd need to ask someone else, I can't see myself
[09:17] <kwwii> he looks like a tomato
[09:17] <kwwii> :-)
[09:17] <Hobbsee> hehe!
[09:18] <mornfall> Riddell: hi :-)))
[09:19] <mornfall> he doesn't look like a tomato
[09:20] <Hobbsee> oh pity.
[09:20] <mornfall> 1) tomatoes are much more red 2) tomatoes don't wear beards
[09:20] <mornfall> anything else i may have missed? :]
[09:21] <Riddell> morning mornfall!
[09:21] <nixternal> morning Riddell
[09:21] <Hobbsee> hh
[09:21] <nixternal> mornin' everyone ;)
[09:21] <mornfall> i'll fall asleep in few minutes
[09:21] <kwwii> hehe
[09:21] <Hobbsee> eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee work you silly key!
[09:22] <nixternal> LOL
[09:22] <mornfall> Riddell: i'm around 3 o'clock from you
[09:24] <Riddell> mornfall: hmm, I seem to have failed to register kubuntu-edgy-package-manager for this summit
[09:24] <mornfall> Riddell: it can be registered still i suppose? people are creating specs still
[09:24] <mornfall> anyhow
[09:24] <Riddell> mornfall: yes, actually I think we'll need to make few specs for each part of that
[09:25] <mornfall> could do
[09:26] <Hobbsee> Riddell: going to say something?
[09:29] <Riddell> Hobbsee: already have, but these introductions aren't on teamspeak
[09:29] <kwwii> rebooting, brb
[09:29] <Hobbsee> Riddell: ah ok.  i was actually meaning on TS, but yeah.  are people taking notes or something for interesting bits?
[09:29] <Hobbsee> or are we just listening from TS?
[09:32] <Riddell> Hobbsee: just now we're all introducting our specs, but all the specs already have a text introduction on their launchpad page
[09:33] <Riddell> for the BoFs for the actual spec discussions that'll be on teamspeak
[09:33] <nixternal> argh
[09:33] <Hobbsee> Riddell: fair enough
[09:34] <mornfall> *yaaawn*
[09:35] <mornfall> i suppose teamspeak is not quite apt-gettable?
[09:35] <mornfall> thanks
[09:35] <Hobbsee> no, it's a shell script
[09:35] <Hobbsee> i didnt throw that much on you!
[09:35] <mornfall> i'm very skilled in drowning
[09:35] <Riddell> mornfall: Mark did appologise for the evil proprietryness of it yesterday
[09:36] <Hobbsee> become unskilled mornfall :P
[09:40] <mornfall> grmble, the TS license blows
[09:40] <Riddell> mornfall: we know, Mark's bountying anyone who wants to add the same functionality to Free Software
[09:40] <Hobbsee> hehe
[09:41] <mornfall> what license is jingle?
[09:41] <mornfall> i suppose it's not quite trivial to extend, but could be a start
[09:42] <mornfall> BSD
[09:42] <mornfall> great
[09:42] <mornfall> so there's something to start with :)
[09:44] <Riddell> mornfall: get ready to introduce adept-usability
[09:44] <mornfall> Riddell: me? pff
[09:44] <mornfall> Riddell: why not you?
[09:45] <nixternal> lol
[09:45] <mornfall> i have no idea what to say :)
[09:45] <Riddell> mornfall: adept is your baby :)
[09:45] <Riddell> say we'll be getting ellen to do a usability review
[09:45] <mornfall> sure, but i don't like to speak :)
[09:45] <mornfall> please......
[09:45] <Riddell> mornfall: it's just like IRC but louder
[09:45] <mornfall> nah
[09:45] <mornfall> *frown*
[09:46] <nixternal> LOL Riddell
[09:46] <imbrandon> irc but louder lol
[09:46] <nixternal> that is classic...that has to be quoted
[09:47] <nixternal> news worthy imbrandon..put into the pastebin
[09:47] <mornfall> Riddell: okey, i can do it
[09:47] <mornfall> you win :p
[09:49] <nixternal> \sh welcome aboard ;)
[09:54] <Riddell> hmm, teamspeak server seems broken
[09:57] <nixternal> nobody can communicate?
[09:58] <nixternal> omg
[09:58] <nixternal> turn it down
[09:58] <nixternal> OWWW
[09:58] <nixternal> ;)
[10:01] <Riddell> I can't seem to connect to the server
[10:01] <nixternal> Riddell: i see you on there..now you just quit
[10:01] <nixternal> and your bac
[10:04] <Riddell> strange, I can't see anybody
[10:04] <nixternal> i don't see you know
[10:05] <nixternal> [03:04:37]  Jonathan Riddell quit
[10:05] <nixternal> that is why ;)
[10:05] <nixternal> s/know/now
[10:05] <Riddell> ah hah
[10:05] <nixternal> i see you now
[10:05] <nixternal> hehe
[10:06] <nixternal> you get it?
[10:06] <Riddell> rm -r ~/teamspeak  fixed it
[10:06] <nixternal> good to know
[10:06] <nixternal> rm -r fixes a lot of things ;)
[10:16] <Riddell> you rock mornfall!
[10:16] <mornfall> blah
[10:16] <mornfall> :p
[10:18] <\sh> moins
[10:18] <freeflying|away> moin all
[10:19] <nixternal> moin freeflying
[10:20] <mornfall> teamspeak crashes on exit?
[10:20] <Riddell> mornfall: did for me too
[10:20] <mornfall> ok, so it's not me
[10:20] <freeflying> nixternal: moin
[10:21] <mornfall> libborqt... is that thing done with kylix?
[10:24] <Riddell> mornfall: do you have the teamspeak wget URL?
[10:24] <mornfall> ftp://ftp.freenet.de/pub/4players/teamspeak.org/releases/ts2_client_rc2_2032.tar.bz2 should do
[10:24] <Riddell> thanks
[10:55] <seaLne> any idea what port teamspeak uses? i get no reply from server
[11:26] <Riddell> seaLne: marais.ubuntu.com.8767: UDP
[11:26] <Riddell> although I think it also uses TCP
[11:27] <freeflying> gobby can not link to that server
[11:28] <Riddell> freeflying: doesn't seem to be up yet
[11:28] <freeflying> :)
[11:33] <seaLne> Riddell: hmm well still can't connect and it isn't firewalled
[11:45] <Riddell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~mdz/schedule/2006-06-19/
[11:48] <hunger> tnks: With ubuntu all I get all kind of HW support installed by default (OK, I get stuff installed that I might never need, but I do not care about the HD space).
[11:49] <hunger> Oh, sorry:-(
[11:59] <mlitz> kdeversion
[11:59] <mlitz> ups, sorry
[11:59] <Riddell> Tonio_: where are you?
[12:01] <\sh> Riddell: I will listen to the bof, but I can't answer via TS, because it will disturb the others around me, so what's the best way to contribute?
[12:03] <Riddell> \sh: here I guess
[12:04] <seaLne> can i just check, with TS the only settings i need to put in are the servername?
[12:05] <\sh> teamspeak.uds.canonical.com , anonymous login and set the nickname
[12:05] <seaLne> yep
[12:06] <seaLne> wonder why i can't connect
[12:15] <\sh> Riddell: do you have the ip address to connect gobby?
[12:16] <Riddell> \sh: nope
[12:18] <\sh> that reminds me of the pink floyd song: "Is anybody out there" ;)
[12:19] <\sh> I'm sitting in the office, with my headset connected to windows...I feel ashamed
[12:20] <ervin_uds> Riddell: better type it here I guess =)
[12:20] <ervin_uds> Riddell: or in the topic
[12:21] <\sh> what about #kubuntu-bofs ?
[12:22] <Riddell> gobby <IP_ADDRESS>
[12:22] <Riddell> ervin_uds: ^^
[12:23] <\sh> just internal ip addresses? and .255 looks like an broadcast
[12:24] <ervin_uds> \sh: raise the whisper threshold
[12:24] <ervin_uds> \sh: you're continously emitting
[12:25] <mornfall> \sh: you need to raise the threshold
[12:26] <ervin_uds> \sh: hello?
[12:26] <Tonio__> hi \sh
[12:28] <freeflying> teamspeak has no client for osx?
[12:28] <ervin_uds> Riddell: could you kick \sh until he goes back?
[12:28] <Riddell> ervin_uds: I'm not an op
[12:28] <ervin_uds> ah ok
[12:29] <ervin_uds> \sh: you're on mute, ping me when you're back
[12:33] <\sh> damn windows
[12:33] <\sh> just locked my windows and everything is messed up
[12:34] <ervin_uds> \sh: looks ok now, at least you're not emitting =)
[12:42] <\sh> whoever spoke there, I can't understand him...let him use a mic ;)
[12:51] <ervin_uds> \sh: it was aseigo
[12:51] <aseigo> which question?
[12:52] <ervin_uds> [12:42:02]  <\sh> whoever spoke there, I can't understand him...let him use a mic ;)
[12:52] <aseigo> haha
[12:52] <aseigo> i had laryngitis two days ago and my voice is still a little ... odd
[12:55] <jsgotangco> horse
[12:55] <jsgotangco> heh
[12:57] <\sh> hehe..I never heard aseigos voice before, just read his articles on his blog ;)
[12:57] <\sh> so I was surprised...it wasn't Riddells voice
[01:00] <aseigo> yes, i took over his body momentarily
[01:00] <aseigo> i have psychic powers like that ;0
[01:01] <aseigo> (and my healthy voice sounds different =)
[01:02] <\sh> aseigo: can you read my future, too? ;)
[01:02] <apokryphos> only if he can see your palm, I'm sure
[01:06] <\sh> so, I need to join the aKademy ;)
[01:06] <\sh> gobby.uds.ubuntu.com or canonical.com?
[01:07] <Riddell> \sh: ubuntu.com
[01:07] <\sh> let's see if I can connect
[01:10] <\sh> doesn't work
[01:11] <seaLne> did you specify a port?
[01:12] <\sh> 6522
[01:13] <seaLne> the top of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperSummitParis/Participate suggests you need to know which port for the session
[01:14] <Riddell> seaLne: ah, that could be it
[01:14] <\sh> so which port are we? I don't see the schedule ;)
[01:15] <Riddell> ok I need to just choose a port for gobby to work on that server
[01:17] <\sh> is there a way to see the paris bof schedule via web?
[01:17] <ajmitch_> http://people.ubuntu.com/~mdz/schedule/2006-06-19/
[01:17] <ajmitch_> schedule for today, so far
[01:18] <\sh> cool
[02:58] <jjesse> did the confrence start already and if so is there a calnedar of what is happening each day and also i think there  was the ability to join via voice over ip or something?
[02:58] <Hobbsee> jjesse: heya, it has, and yes thre is
[02:58] <Hobbsee> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperSummitParis/
[02:58] <Hobbsee> some of the devs need to learn to use push to talk though :(
[02:59] <jjesse> what program is it?
[02:59] <Hobbsee> teamspeak
[03:02] <jjesse> so how do i join?
[03:03] <Hobbsee> jjesse: download teamspeak, connect to the server with your real name (otherwise fabbione isnt happy) and listen.  kill off kde sound first
[03:03] <Hobbsee> teamspeak.uds.canonical.com is the server
[03:03] <jjesse> is there a server name i need?
[03:04] <jjesse> ah thanks
[03:04] <Hobbsee> :)
[03:06] <jjesse> ah joined thanks Hobbsee
[03:06] <Hobbsee> jjesse: :)
[03:06] <Hobbsee> check if you can hear/speak
[03:07] <Hobbsee> mic muted
[03:07] <jjesse> don't have a microphone on my laptop setup
[03:07] <Hobbsee> ah ok
[03:07] <jjesse> so i'll listen in :)
[03:07] <Hobbsee> :)
[03:10] <jjesse> morning jsgotangco
[03:10] <jsgotangco> hi jjesse =)
[03:10] <jjesse> enjoying paris?
[03:13] <jsgotangco> jjesse: well we had our time to enjoy yesterday; today is all work after all we are in the middle of nowhere
[03:13] <jjesse> jsgotangco: grin, i hope work goes well then, joined teamspeak so i could listen in
[03:57] <Hobbsee> mornfall: ping
[04:14] <Hobbsee> hi Mez
[04:16] <Mez> hi sarah
[04:19] <kwwii> re
[04:20] <Hobbsee> hey kwwii
[04:42] <kwwii> sometimes I think I spend more time rebooting than actually working
[05:00] <Hobbsee> Riddell: the chances of kde 3.5.4 getting in?
[05:06] <Riddell> Hobbsee: easy, that happens end of july
[05:06] <Riddell> plenty time for it
[05:07] <Hobbsee> Riddell: nice.  just saw the talk of UVF and went "oh no".  should make a nice birthday present, actually.
[05:07] <Hobbsee> a bit late, but still good :)
[05:08] <jjesse> i'm in the teamspeak room for kde lanague pack, but i'm !microphone, so i'll listen in
[05:14] <freeflying|away> Riddell: will edgy use the coming release of cairo and fontconfig
[05:14] <imbrandon> Riddell / Hobbsee / jjesse freeflying i would love to stay but i'm going on 24hrs no sleep, see you all in 6 - 8 hours
[05:15] <imbrandon> btw freeflying|away everything working ok on the shell ?
[05:15] <Hobbsee> night imbrandon
[05:16] <imbrandon> Riddell, what is the schedule for the kde"ish" stuff so i can be prepared for TS ?
[05:16] <jjesse> nigt imbrandon
[05:16] <freeflying|away> imbrandon: yep
[05:16] <imbrandon> freeflying|away, kool just makin sure ;)
[05:16] <freeflying|away> imbrandon_: dose this cost you extra   :)
[05:16] <imbrandon> freeflying|away, nope not a penny
[05:16] <imbrandon> i pay for it anyway
[05:17] <imbrandon> i can make as many shell accounts as i wish , same price
[05:17] <imbrandon> the only thing that cost me more is bandwith and i go no where even close to my limit ( and i also have a full ubuntu apt mirror on that server ) so no worries
[05:18] <imbrandon> i get 2018 Gb/month transfre and i only use about 100 maybe , if that
[05:19] <imbrandon> ;)
[05:19] <Riddell> imbrandon: we don't know, schedules are done late at night or early in the morning
[05:19] <freeflying|away> imbrandon_: heh, thx
[05:19] <Riddell> freeflying|away: no idea, you'd need to ask a gnome packager for cairo and I guess fontconfig will be merged with debian
[05:19] <imbrandon> ok Riddell, just wondering , i'll be back in a few hours, nap time
[05:21] <freeflying|away> Riddell: a chinese join cairo upstream, and make great improvement for CJK in next release, also this will rake place in fonconfig
[05:21] <freeflying|away> s/rake/take
[05:25] <Riddell> freeflying|away: we don't really use cairo in kubuntu/KDE, Qt4 uses it's own engine (arthur)
[05:25] <Riddell> which uses fontconfig
[05:26] <freeflying|away> Riddell: I see, just wonder wether ubuntu will use these  :)
[05:53] <Riddell> jjesse: where is Switching From Windows currently?
[05:53] <Riddell> hello ericthefish
[05:53] <jjesse> currently just the wiki page that is very large and very ubuntu specific
[05:54] <jjesse> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/SwitchingFromWindows
[05:54] <Riddell> ah yes, cool
[05:54] <Riddell> jjesse: what's the plan for adept docs in edgy?
[05:54] <jjesse> do i need a spec on it or should i just like to it from the KubuntuDocs/Edgy?
[05:55] <Riddell> "Adept will have manuals and guides" isn't very clear
[05:55] <Riddell> jjesse: I'm tidying up KubuntuDocs/Edgy now, that's all that is needed
[05:55] <jjesse> ok
[05:57] <Riddell> so is the plan to update the adept manual?
[05:57] <jjesse> yes, currently the manual covers version 1.0 and doesn't have anything about add/remove programs and is incorrect about other things
[05:58] <Riddell> groovy
[06:02] <jjesse> ok away eating lunch :)
[06:27] <hunger> apt
[06:42] <DaSkreech> -get
[06:49] <Mez> Riddell: ping#
[06:57] <Riddell> hi Mez
[07:01] <Mez> Riddell; what';s going on with LRL ?
[07:01] <jjesse> Riddell: thanks for cleaning up the specification for me
[07:01] <Mez> it's got "KDE" and "KDE and Kubuntu" stands
[07:01] <Mez> in the exhibitors list
[07:03] <uniq> riddell: hi, could you please approve me for the ubuntu-irc launchpad group please? I can't access the bantracker on ubotu wihtout beeing a member of that group. thanks :)
[07:03] <Riddell> Mez: cool, we get twice a stand :)
[07:04] <Mez> Riddell: who's helping - just me and you?
[07:04] <Riddell> uniq: I have no idea about the policy of that group, who do I ask to find out?
[07:04] <Riddell> Mez: Ben Lamb is coming to big up KDE
[07:05] <Mez> Cool - cause like - I'm doing A/V and keysigning stuff too
[07:05] <uniq> riddell: you're an administrator, and seveas is the owner. I guess beeing a operator of one of the channels we have is enought to be included. But please ask just to be sure.
[07:07] <Seveas> uniq, ?
[07:07] <Mez> then i should be in the ubuntu-irc group too
[07:07] <Seveas> uniq/mez, are you operator in here?
[07:07] <uniq> seveas: i
[07:07] <uniq> 'm #kubuntu operator.
[07:07] <Mez> in #kubuntu
[07:08] <Seveas> uniq,  approved
[07:08] <Seveas> Mez,  please apply
[07:08] <uniq> seveas: thanks :)
[07:09] <Seveas> btw, bantracker is broken-ish right now, I'm working on it
[07:09] <jpatrick> Seveas: if I'm an op in #kubuntu should I too be in the group?
[07:09] <uniq> ok. should probably have cleaned up the banlist in #kubuntu, 50 bans, some very old.
[07:09] <Seveas> jpatrick,  approved
[07:10] <Seveas> btw: you lot might want to consider joining #ubuntu-ops and the ubuntu-irc mailing list
[07:10] <Seveas> Mez,  approved
[07:11] <Mez> ty
[07:11] <uniq> seveas: i joined the ml some days ago.
[07:12] <Mez> Seveas - how high traffic is it ?
[07:12] <Mez> (the ML)
[07:12] <Seveas> very low
[07:12] <Mez> Riddell, is Kamion looking busy ?
[07:12] <Mez> Seveas - cool - I'll gmail it then
[07:12] <Seveas> only important things like the new ubotu
[07:13] <jpatrick> Seveas: ok, thanks
[07:13] <Riddell> Mez: kamion is always busy
[07:14] <Seveas> Riddell, that's an understatement
[07:14] <Riddell> Seveas: what's the policy on allowing people into ubuntu-irc?
[07:15] <Seveas> Riddell, they have to be op in #kubuntu or #ubuntu
[07:15] <jpatrick> Riddell: op status on a channel I guess
[07:15] <Seveas> it's main purpose is to be able to view the bantracker
[07:15] <Seveas> s/'//
[07:15] <Mez> is it restricted then ? I got in fine
[07:15] <Seveas> even before?
[07:15] <Seveas> hmm..
[07:16] <uniq> mez: launchpad group?
[07:16] <Riddell> Seveas: aren't bans handled by freenode chanserv?
[07:16] <Seveas> Riddell, no
[07:16] <Seveas> and in case of netsplits bans tend to loose data (like who set them and when)
[07:16] <uniq> the bantracker is restricted. I tried to subscribe without beeing a member of ubuntu-irc launchpad group,and got rejected when i tried to login.
[07:16] <Seveas> and there's no ban history
[07:17] <Mez> oh, I thought you were on about the channel
[07:17] <Seveas> Mez, no, the only restricted thing is the bantracker, because you can comment on it
[07:18] <Riddell> Seveas: so how do I use this bantracker thing?
[07:18] <Mez> Seveas - ah ... er
[07:18] <Mez> it's evil - it wont let me use my alternative emails
[07:18] <Seveas> https://bugbot.ubuntulinux.nl/bans.cgi
[07:19] <Seveas> Mez, launchpad does not export those via rdf
[07:19] <Mez> I cnat use my main one - it's too clogged up atm
[07:22] <Seveas> jpatrick, did you get a mail from Ubugtu ?
[07:22] <jpatrick> No
[07:23] <Seveas> hmm, as I said, some things are broken ;)
[07:25] <uniq> it worked just fine for me.
[07:26] <linuxmonkey> bad Seveas bad Seveas...lol being happy about things being broken
[07:29] <uniq> i got my kubuntu cds today. they are nice. :)
[07:29] <linuxmonkey> bad uniq bad
[07:29] <linuxmonkey> lol
[07:29] <linuxmonkey> i need mine
[07:30] <linuxmonkey> so their nice
[07:30] <linuxmonkey> how many did u get?
[07:30] <uniq> don't know, 10 or so.
[07:35] <jjesse> hmmm i wonder if mine are in the mailbox at home
[07:35] <jjesse> that would be nice
[07:35] <linuxmonkey> i doubt id get mine anytime soon, im in canada
[07:36] <jjesse> hmm i'm in michigan usa just hoping :)
[07:36] <nixternal> i got mine too today
[07:36] <nixternal> 10kubuntu and 10ubuntu
[07:36] <jjesse> nixternal: where you at?
[07:36] <nixternal> across the pond from you jjesse
[07:36] <nixternal> take a paddle boat across lake michigan
[07:36] <nixternal> ;)
[07:36] <jjesse> a big paddle boat :)
[07:36] <nixternal> haha
[07:36] <nixternal> ya
[07:37] <nixternal> im in...sweet home chicago ;)
[07:37] <jjesse> nixternal: i don't remember but what was i supposed to email the ubuntu-doc list about? from the meeting on friday?
[07:37] <nixternal> oh wow
[07:37] <jjesse> do you remember?
[07:37] <nixternal> no ;)
[07:37] <nixternal> let me look at my log
[07:38] <jjesse> bummer going to have to read the log
[07:39] <linuxmonkey> lol
[07:39] <linuxmonkey> yeah I didnt get my cd's
[07:39] <linuxmonkey> :`(
[07:43] <Riddell> salut raphink
[07:43] <raphink> hi Riddell :)
[07:43] <raphink> how are you?
[07:44] <Riddell> jjesse: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/kubuntu-edgy-docs
[07:45] <linuxmonkey> Riddell:  arent u supposed to be sleeping..lol
[07:46] <raphink> linuxmonkey: why would he be sleeping at 7:15PM ?
[07:46] <nixternal> it is only 9pm in Paris silly..who goes to bed that early?
[07:46] <nixternal> 8pm rather
[07:46] <linuxmonkey> lol
[07:46] <nixternal> 8 and 9 are to close to each other ;)
[07:46] <linuxmonkey> cause he been up for a long time without sleep
[07:47] <nixternal> you can do that when your geeked out ;)
[07:47] <jjesse> his girlfriend is probablly keeping him awake :)  and is also probablly the reason he is not responding :0
[07:47] <nixternal> lol
[07:47] <linuxmonkey> lmao
[07:48] <nixternal> jjesse: i am not seeing anything about emails from the #ubuntu-meeting logs...maybe it was in here when we were conversing to Riddell about Kubuntu docs?
[07:48] <jjesse> nixternal: i found it, should the switching guide be specific for kubuntu/ubuntu or generic
[07:48] <Riddell> linuxmonkey: I went to sleep last night at well before my normal time
[07:48] <Riddell> raphink: I'm groovy
[07:48] <nixternal> oh ya
[07:49] <raphink> Riddell: how is meeting going?
[07:49] <nixternal> Riddell is groovy...had a little to drink did ya ;)
[07:49] <linuxmonkey> lmao
[07:49] <raphink> nixternal: learn that riddell is always groovy ;)
[07:49] <nixternal> jjesse: windows switching right
[07:49] <nixternal> hahah raphink i have noticed
[07:49] <Riddell> raphink: everyone is here who should be, no really big kubuntu specs today hopefully we'll get some of the big ones scheduled for tomorrow
[07:49] <raphink> Riddell: does that mean I shouldn't be there?
[07:50] <Riddell> nixternal: at 9euro a beer I'm going to be teetotal until we can get to l'intermache and buy some cheap
[07:50] <nixternal> ouch
[07:50] <nixternal> hehe
[07:50] <jjesse> can we get the "big" ones scheduled later in the day so i can added via teamspeak?
[07:50] <nixternal> ya..i wouldn't mind listening in on some as this whole Kubuntu world amazes me ;)
[07:50] <Riddell> raphink: well everyone is here who I expeced to turn up
[07:51] <raphink> ah ok
[07:51] <Riddell> jjesse: I can't control the timing at all
[07:51] <jjesse> the developers just need to remember to push to talk
[07:51] <Riddell> and teamspeak is quite a hassle
[07:51] <raphink> you said "everyone is here who should be" so that was controversial ;)
[07:51] <jjesse> well if mics worked :)
[07:51] <nixternal> should just open a mic there at the meeting...and mute everyone else unless they are needed to speak
[07:51] <jjesse> doesn't work very well
[07:52] <jjesse> they tried it at the edgy release schedule one
[07:52] <nixternal> ahhh
[07:52] <nixternal> see...we have done it with skype and it worked like a charm
[07:52] <jjesse> maybe the mic wasn't very good ?
[07:52] <nixternal> although..we did use an amazing conference hardware setup though
[07:52] <nixternal> it could have been that jjesse...the mic we used in the skype conferences was top notch
[07:53] <nixternal> i know our boss paid a pretty penny for it
[07:53] <Riddell> the microphones are headset ones, they're not intended for group stuff
[07:53] <Riddell> plus there are 4 bofs in 1 room so there's lots of background noise
[07:53] <nixternal> i heard that yesterday...someone opened a mic and it sounded like a dance club ;)
[07:54] <nixternal> that and jdub beat boxing
[07:57] <Riddell> dinner time
[07:57] <nixternal> enjoy
[07:57] <nixternal> more work for me...client decided to make changes to named.conf.local and now get the good ol' rndc.key errors
[07:58] <linuxmonkey> lmao
[07:58] <nixternal> ya you laugh
[07:59] <nixternal> i can't even ssh into the server...omg windows people sook
[07:59] <linuxmonkey> time to get off yer ass and take a walk to the server
[08:00] <nixternal> server is in...ummm....texas i think
[08:00] <nixternal> it is a colo
[08:01] <nixternal> the office admin is like..oh we got a memo that stated ssh was insecure so we disabled it...
[08:01] <nixternal> everything is insecure...whats next...get rid of the computer
[08:01] <nixternal> arg...bbiab
[08:02] <linuxmonkey> lmao
[08:02] <linuxmonkey> ssh is essencial
[08:17] <DaSkreech> jpatrick: http://commit-digest.org/issues/2006-06-18/
[08:17] <DaSkreech> jpatrick: Kitten :)
[08:18] <jpatrick> woohoo
[08:45] <DaSkreech> http://www.vandenoever.info/software/strigi/
[10:17] <LjL> hello... just had a little discussion about Kopete on #kubuntu. i've only now started using it, and i see that, by default, it sends *quite* a bit of information to the other clients that i might not really want to give away
[10:17] <railk> LjL: for one thing, (k)ubuntu is geared towards normals, not the more geeky type... afaik, it doesn't even have the build system installed by default, you need to get build-essential for that...
[10:17] <railk> so you dont need stuff like you listed
[10:17] <LjL> the options to disable that are rather well hidden, additionally. do you think this is really the desired default behavior?
[10:17] <LjL> railk: i don't think that's the main reason for them to be absent, honestly
[10:18] <railk> fine then
[10:18] <railk> present != enabled though...
[10:18] <railk> so if its some sort of privacy they could be present and disabled by default... or somthing
[10:20] <railk> so... making a bug report?
[10:21] <LjL> actually no, answering a bugger on the phone. but yeah, i'm going to make one
[10:21] <railk> hmm... is there a specific bug ticker for kopete or at least kde... since taking it further upstream probably isn't a bad idea
[10:22] <LjL> we're talking about defaults, i think it's rather more distro-specific
[10:22] <LjL> however i'm sure the Ubuntu devs *do* take bugs upstream when they think they're relevant there
[10:23] <railk> meh well after something i read recently i'm not so sure about that...
[10:23] <LjL> nobody's perfect i guess
[10:23] <railk> true :P
[10:23] <LjL> heh
[10:24] <railk> j/k
[10:24] <uniq> it's kopetes default i guess.
[10:24] <uniq> we could change it in kubuntu-default-settings
[10:24] <crimsun> railk: you best be kiddin'!
[10:24] <railk> lol
[10:24] <railk> omg it speaks!
[10:25] <LjL> it?
[10:26] <LjL> crimsun: what's your vote? is an instant messanger telling people if you're the terminal, if their window is focused, if you're typing at the keyboard and if you actually got a message shown on your screen .... is this good defaults?
[10:27] <railk> hmm, you forgot the "has the window been closed" message
[10:27] <railk> not sure where that one is included
[10:27] <crimsun> LjL: hmm, isn't that similar to what AIM and MSN use?
[10:28] <railk> crimsun: yes its exactly what they use, but does that mean kopete must use em too?
[10:28] <crimsun> railk: there's a fine balance between usability and security-via-paranoia
[10:28] <LjL> crimsun: that may be, and probably is. i stopped using messengers long ago, and had to restart now. however i don't quite care what they do, i don't think they're very much renowned for being secure or respecting privacy
[10:28] <railk> crimsun: a balance which has resulted in the discussion we are currently having
[10:28] <crimsun> railk: if /I/ were designing one, I'd code the option to be disabled by default
[10:29] <crimsun> notifications are nice, but they emit a bit too much info
[10:29] <LjL> crimsun: those options aren't too easy to find, and they must be modified for *every* account that you have -- no single place to disable them at once. really, i'd rather have SSH installed by default
[10:30] <crimsun> LjL: I would consider that a usability bug
[10:31] <LjL> ok. still even aside them, i don't really like spyware activated by default in my linux.
[10:31] <LjL> s/them/that/
[10:31] <crimsun> the philosophy the *buntus have adopted with sudo and no daemons listening on external interfaces suggests that all those options should be disabled by default
[10:32] <LjL> that's my opinion, too. oh by the way, it also sends client and OS version information by defalt
[10:33] <crimsun> doesn't Konqueror also do that by default?
[10:33] <crimsun> I don't think client+OS strings are /that/ big a deal in the grand scheme, since someone determined enough would just nmap
[10:35] <LjL> crimsun: and find what open, on Ubuntu?
[10:35] <LjL> honest question, i haven't tried nmapping my Ubuntu.
[10:36] <crimsun> LjL: no, the OS & version
[10:36] <LjL> crimsun: yes, but if nothing in the system's giving any answer, nmap will have a hard time getting that information
[10:37] <crimsun> LjL: nmap just inspects tcp behaviour (timestamps, reactions to combinations of syns/acks/syn-acks/rejs
[10:37] <crimsun> )
[10:38] <uniq> nmap does it just fine without any listening daemons. :)
[10:38] <LjL> and it can still do that well enough to obtain the OS information even if all ports are closed?
[10:38] <LjL> ok then
[10:38] <uniq> nmap rocks by the way. :)
[10:38] <crimsun> LjL: it can guess. Regardless, my point is that emitting client+OS version isn't all /that/ big a deal.
[10:40] <LjL> ok, granted.
[10:41] <LjL> i'm still not sure it should be given away by just any problem. web browsers sometimes have a use for that (for example, the Firefox website gives you the "right" download for your OS by default)... but an instant messenger?
[10:41] <LjL> s/just any problem/just any program/
[10:41] <crimsun> LjL: I have no objections if that info weren't emitted by default.
[10:42] <railk> btw LjL if your paranoid you will also want to change the "Resource" setting of the jabber protocol...
[10:42] <railk> also per-account
[10:42] <railk> unfortunatly talk.google.com *requires* ssl encryption so i can't exactly watch what is being sent...
[10:43] <LjL> railk: i'm not that paranoid. i'm really more paranoid about privacy-related information being sent than OS-related information. it just strikes me as useless that they're being sent
[10:44] <LjL> probably mostly harmless, but in any case useless
[10:44] <railk> yeah i've also always wondered what that was about...
[10:44] <uniq> advertising :)
[10:46] <LjL> railk, crimsun, uniq: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/kdenetwork/+bug/50387
[10:46] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 50387 in kdenetwork "Default "privacy" settings don't respect privacy" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]
[10:47] <uniq> ljl: you could also consider making the same report upstream to kopete.
[10:48] <LjL> uniq: do you think? i felt this kind of thing, since it's related to defaults, is more distribution-specific than upstream-specific
[10:48] <railk> you could put it there for debate
[10:48] <uniq> railk: ok, i don't follow the discussion, just pretending to :)
[10:48] <railk> lol
[10:48] <uniq> ljl: kubuntu use kopete defaults by default as far as i can tell.
[10:48] <LjL> well, perhaps i will. let's just see how the thing evolves on launchpad right now though
[10:53] <LjL> railk: if i decide (or someone does) to take the bug upstream as well, my proposal would be to have a short first-run wizard (yeah, i know, but we already have plenty anyway...) asking about privacy
[10:54] <railk> just so you know whats its probably sending in terms of client/OS: http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=97947
[10:54] <Ubugtu> KDE bug 97947 in Jabber Plugin "Jabber "hide client info" feature (like in Gaim)" [Wishlist,Resolved: fixed]
[10:54] <LjL> railk: should be good for everyone. you don't mind having those conveniences enabled, you're immediately shown where to find them
[10:55] <railk> ... and i'm off to bed
[10:55] <LjL> "Now in Jabber account configuration, you have a new Privacy tab."
[10:55] <LjL> so i used to not be able to disable those things *at all*, cool =)
[11:16] <allee> !teamspeak
[11:21] <lnxkde> what have been happening :)?
[11:22] <lnxkde> when the next dev releases will start :D I am anxious :)


[06:35] <excalibr> makan-makan
[07:06] <fairuz> sila-sila
[07:06] <fairuz> Anyone here have hardware supplier contacts?


[00:00] <c_smith> bleh, Kubuntu really is slick, but I like Unity too, don't see why people don't like it, well, actually I do.
[00:01] <c_smith> but this is the 15th time Kwin has crashed... >.< so it's time for Ubuntu.
[00:02] <c_smith> also, Ipod support in Amarok is horrid with the current Kubuntu KDE version
[00:02] <c_smith> be back in a while
[00:02] <nathwill> enjoy :)
[00:02] <ethan> i think a large part of the resistance to Unity is just b/c it is an immature project and people are also generally resistant to change
[00:02] <nathwill> yeah, you see the same railing against gnome3
[00:03] <ethan> my major concern is the inflating system requirements
[00:03]  * nathwill nods
[00:03] <nathwill> hence the leap to minimal+openbox
[00:03] <ethan> a user-friendly interface design does not require high system requirements
[00:03] <ethan> it requires good design, HIG
[00:04] <ethan> i'm pretty excited about elementaryOS myself
[00:05] <ethan> i think the underlying philosophy is absolutely right on
[00:05] <ethan> regardless of where they take it
[00:05] <ethan> i hope more distros emerge in a similar manner
[00:05] <bkerensa> nathwill: Do you use Empire Avenue?
[00:08] <nathwill> empire avenue?
[00:08]  * nathwill agrees w/ the apparent promise of elementaryos
[00:11] <bkerensa> nathwill: A Social Network Stock Market of sorts http://bit.ly/luWLZe
[00:11] <nathwill> why does it have a price under your name?
[00:11] <nathwill> :P
[00:12] <bkerensa> because thats my value in the market
[00:12] <bkerensa> everyone has a price
[00:12] <bkerensa> :D
[00:12] <nathwill> i see
[00:12] <nathwill> i hope the exchange rate is better than 1:1 or you're pretty cheap. ;)
[00:19] <bkerensa> LOL
[00:21] <nathwill> so i got that job
[00:21] <nathwill> i'm pumped
[00:22] <nathwill> probably be flying to sunnyvale for training in the next couple months
[00:22] <bkerensa> cool
[00:22] <bkerensa> :D
[00:22] <bkerensa> 	(/dev/pts/0) at 20:22 ...
[00:22] <bkerensa> The system is going down for reboot NOW!
[00:22] <nathwill> oh noes!
[00:23] <bkerensa> cloud is waking
[00:23] <bkerensa> :D
[00:23] <nathwill> hope you're using kexec-tools
[00:29] <bkerensa> too many root or sudo shells :D
[01:07] <nathwill> it's so naptime... going home and passing out
[01:17] <bkerensa> nathwill: tango down :P
[01:17] <nathwill> i will, waiting for this sql query to finish
[01:17] <nathwill> 6 min so far...
[01:19] <nathwill> some chump dba forgot to add a unique constraint to this field, and the devs forgot to check for pre-existing records during insertion, so... gotta clean up a massive table
[01:19] <nathwill> and i still don't know what hole in the app logic is getting these things in here, because i can't create a duplicate even if i try
[01:20] <nathwill> yaaaay
[01:20] <nathwill> it finished
[01:21] <nathwill> ok... night all
[06:42]  * bkerensa is listening to: DJ Khaled -  - I'm On One (feat. Drake, Rick Ross & Lil Wayne) - (1:56/4:58)
[06:56] <MarkDude> Rick Ross- ggod look
[06:56] <MarkDude> good
[06:56] <MarkDude> bkerensa: should go for similar- nuthin like waering gold chain with your own face on it
[06:57] <bkerensa> lol
[06:57]  * bkerensa is listening to: Michael Jackson - Bad - Man In The Mirror - (0:12/5:19)
[06:57] <bkerensa> Better MarkDude?
[06:57] <bkerensa> ;p
[07:00] <MarkDude> No
[07:00] <MarkDude> Rick ross was just a coke dealer that became a rapper
[07:00] <MarkDude> MJ touched little kids
[07:13] <bkerensa> ;p
[15:02]  * nathwill yawns
[15:05] <bkerensa> =o
[15:07] <nathwill> it's too freaking early to be up and about :(
[15:18] <bkerensa> nathwill: Perhaps....  I was up from 2am till now totally sick.... I thought I might have to go to the ER for awhile but luckily have pulled through
[16:09] <c_smith> good morning.
[16:09] <nathwill> well glad you're feeling better
[16:12] <c_smith> who?
[16:12] <c_smith> me?
[16:23] <bkerensa> :D
[16:23] <bkerensa> me
[16:24] <c_smith> oh, I see.
[16:25] <c_smith> 'tis already almost October? man, this year just flew by......
[16:25] <bkerensa> yep
[16:28] <c_smith> anywho, about 1 month away from having my monetary goal I want to reach before I get the parts for the PC I'm gonna build.
[16:29] <c_smith> question on that: is Fry's Electronics a decent choice for parts?
[16:38] <bkerensa> Yes
[16:38] <bkerensa> They do price matching
[17:21] <c_smith> cool
[18:44] <Brian_H> make sure you know what you want when you go in though ;) their staff isn't as knowledgeable as you might hope
[18:56] <bkerensa> Brian_H: http://www.spi.dod.mil/lipose.htm <-- Secure Linux
[18:58] <c_smith> yeah, I'm going in there next week to get a gauge of what I want and can get before I actually buy, and I'll bring a list of parts I'll need.
[18:59] <c_smith> but thanks for the heads up on that.
[18:59] <Brian_H> just sayin :) guy tried to sell me a fan/heatsink for a processor that was substantially under powered
[19:00] <Brian_H> "oh yea this will work trust me"
[19:00] <Brian_H> bkerensa: interesting reading now
[19:00] <c_smith> in around 2 months I'll have the money, might be one month. depending on if my estimate is correct, either way, it's within 2 months
[19:01] <c_smith> and I'm always sure to look at the actual packaging and see what the product actually is, rather than rely on salespeople. had too many buys that were junk not to.
[19:02] <c_smith> plus, I'll likely run Ubuntu on the PC. ;)
[19:03] <c_smith> anyway, I'll be idling for a while now, if you need anything from me, just let me know.
[19:07] <bkerensa> ok
[19:07] <bkerensa> so we will be doing Release Party at PuppetLabs on Oct 13th I just got the thumbs up from our friends at PuppetLabs
[19:08] <bkerensa> With such short time to plan I'm going to try and sort out some snacks/food although PuppetLabs will provide beverages
[19:08]  * bkerensa starts mulling over who to reach out to for food
[19:09] <bkerensa> Brian_H: Yeah I just made a USB with the iso and am gonna check it out
[19:13] <bkerensa> We may also have some release party shirts.... I'm reaching out to a company who was interested in paying for some :)
[19:18] <c_smith> sounds awesome
[19:20] <Brian_H> sweet I wish I could be there but I'll be Hawaii ;)
[19:23] <bkerensa> Cool :D
[19:27] <bkerensa> c_smith: Do you think you might be able to come?
[19:32] <c_smith> hopefully, trying to get someone who can take me.
[19:33] <c_smith> unfortunately, I don't know the Portland bus system well enough to want to risk trying to get there by bus.
[19:33] <c_smith> do we have a page up for the event yet?
[19:39] <c_smith> bkerensa, do you have a time to the release party yet?
[19:39] <nathwill> will there be a pony?
[19:43] <c_smith> bah, forgot I have school that day.... :(
[19:43] <c_smith> granted I get out at around 11AM, it'd still be a stretch if it's too early
[19:51] <bdmurray> bkerensa: you mean Thursday right?
[19:52] <c_smith> bkerensa, it's likely I won't be able to make it, I have school until 11A, and there's only one guy here who can take me at that time, and he's the guy who does the grocery shopping, and the person who took me last time has work until 4 or 5 PM, so she won't be able to. be prepared for me not to come, but I'm gonna push as much as I can to come.
[19:52] <c_smith> the guy who is the only possible one to take me also does most of the meals.
[19:55] <c_smith> if it was a weekend, I'd have a better chance making it.
[19:56] <bkerensa> Yeah :)
[19:56] <bkerensa> Well PuppetLabs is a bit tied up
[19:56] <bkerensa> but dont worry we will plan on something soon
[19:56] <bkerensa> bdmurray: Yep Thursday (My bad)
[19:57] <bkerensa> nathwill: I can play Pony by Ginuwine if thats what it takes to get you to swing by ;)
[19:57] <nathwill> consider it mandatory :D
[19:57] <nathwill> it can be our theme song
[19:58] <bkerensa> heh
[19:58] <c_smith> bkerensa, I honestly don't know how i'll make it on a thursday, weekdays are terrible for this type of stuff for most of us.
[19:58] <bkerensa> nathwill: They have a projector so I can play He Man
[19:58] <bkerensa> :D
[19:58] <c_smith> if it was the saturday of, it would make it easier on most of us.
[19:59] <c_smith> school=busy me on weekdays.
[19:59] <bkerensa> c_smith: I know.... I dont make these dates :P 13th happens to be when release falls and I have no idea why Global Jam is on labor day weekend
[19:59] <nathwill> oh noes. i changed my mind. i ain't coming
[19:59] <bkerensa> :P
[19:59] <nathwill> i owe he-man money
[19:59] <bkerensa> I think Canonical has some odd ideas for scheduling things
[19:59] <bkerensa> nathwill: :P
[19:59] <c_smith> the previous Oregon release party fell on the saturday of.....
[20:00] <c_smith> if I read the email correctly.
[20:00] <c_smith> they didn't do the party on that day for these reasons, but they did it the saturday after.
[20:01] <c_smith> bkerensa, take a look at the mailing list replies to that and you'll see what I'm talking about.
[20:01] <bkerensa> Let me shoot an e-mail and see if I can schedule it for the saturday
[20:01] <c_smith> ok
[20:02] <c_smith> that would make it more likely, but not 100%, but a heck of a lot better than thursday, which is when I have school.
[20:02] <bdmurray> for what its worth saturday is less likely for me because of family obligations
[20:03]  * bkerensa passed the Saturday pitch to PuppetLabs
[20:03] <bkerensa> :D
[20:03] <bkerensa> bdmurray: Understandable but I do got aim to please the masses and looks like people want a weekend thing
[20:04] <bkerensa> Does anyone have a preference on time of day?
[20:04] <bdmurray> I only saw 2 people say weekend I'm not sure how that equals masses
[20:05] <c_smith> bkerensa
[20:05] <c_smith> gonna check that.
[20:06] <nathwill> i have thurs-fri off, so i'm down for whatevah
[20:06] <nathwill> as long as i'm not out of town.
[20:06] <c_smith> if anything, it'll likely be closer to the time the Jam was.
[20:07] <bkerensa> bdmurray: Well I even prefer weekend so thats three :P almost everyone has a 9-5 so Thursday evening would be rough plus we would likely only get a hour or two
[20:09] <bkerensa> Weekend is a negative
[20:09] <c_smith> dang..... :(
[20:09] <c_smith> that would almost certainly count me out,
[20:09] <c_smith> school=me missing it.
[20:10] <bkerensa> Friday, Saturday and Sunday PuppetLabs is booked
[20:10] <c_smith> and there isn't another place you know of?
[20:10] <c_smith> hate to have to ask that, but gotta cover all grounds.
[20:15] <bkerensa> ttyl I gotta go to ER having a bit of a issue
[20:15] <c_smith> bkerensa, if it would help, I call call Broadway Commons Coffehouse (the place I'm gonna suggest for a place for Willamette valley team member to hang out) and see if we could host this there, can't say they'd provide drinks for free
[20:16] <c_smith> damn... missed the window. :(
[20:16] <c_smith> this release party is not shaping up to be feasible for me..... :(
[20:17] <nathwill> feel better bkerensa
[20:21]  * bkerensa is back
[20:21] <bkerensa> gonna wait a bit and see if I get better
[20:21] <bkerensa> =/
[20:22] <bkerensa> OHSU is like atleast a four hour wait so idk calling doc see what she thinks
[20:23] <c_smith> bkerensa, I hear ya, Doernbeckers and Shriners was always a long wait.
[20:23] <bkerensa> Yeah
[20:24] <bkerensa> If I was at OHSU  right now I would not be out of there till like 7pm
[20:24] <bkerensa> =/
[20:25] <c_smith> but at least it's not the Social Security building, OHSU you at least have a chance at a small wait, Social Security is a guaranteed 1+ hour wait, check in, then another long wait.
[20:27] <bkerensa> not really now days doctors are super concerned about malpractice
[20:27] <bkerensa> so they run ever possible test
[20:27] <c_smith> bkerensa, however unlikely it is, since it's a Thursday for the party, there's a chance I might make it, a slim one, but at least it's not nothing. wish I didn't have school that day.... bleh.
[20:27] <c_smith> yeah, they do run a lot of tests out of that concern.
[20:27] <bkerensa> plus it would take a hour for OHSU to get a Gastroentonologist on-site and a anethesiologist
[20:28] <c_smith> don't mention that! I have a jaw operation coming up after I get these braces off! I don't like thinking about it!
[22:36] <nathwill> :(
[22:36] <nathwill> bloody mysql.com hacked
[22:51] <c_smith> that sucks
[22:56] <bkerensa> nathwill: I got a nice mysql 5.5 shirt from the MySQL community manager :D
[22:57] <nathwill> you should tell him his site gave me malware and get me one too
[22:57] <nathwill> :P
[23:02] <bkerensa> LOL
[23:02] <bkerensa> when did you visit it?
[23:03] <bkerensa> How did you get malware?
[23:03] <nathwill> uh
[23:03] <nathwill> i didn't
[23:03] <bkerensa> ?
[23:03] <nathwill> i'm just trying to stir up the appearance of malcontent so i can get a free shirt
[23:03] <bkerensa> lol
[23:03] <nathwill> not that i don't already have enough tech co. shirts
[23:18] <bkerensa> I have 25+
[23:18] <bkerensa> :D
[23:19] <c_smith> bkerensa, don't expect to see me at the Release Party if it's thursday.
[23:19] <c_smith> like I have said, it's a schoolday for me.
[23:20] <bkerensa> I'm trying to plan for a weekend
[23:20] <bkerensa> but it depends on what other venue I can find in Portland
[23:21] <c_smith> yeah, I'd offer up Broadway Commons Coffehouse if I had called them and if I knew people could get to Salem for it.
[23:22] <bkerensa> Yeah... Its hard enough getting people to come to Portland Metro area and the majority of the people live in Portland Metro
[23:22] <bkerensa> :D
[23:37] <bkerensa> nathwill: you around
[23:37] <nathwill> yessir
[23:38] <nathwill> hey, what was that url for the free s3 storage?
[23:38] <bkerensa> aws.amazon.com/free
[23:38] <bkerensa> :D
[23:38] <nathwill> thanks mate!
[23:38]  * bkerensa has a tablet available today for sale if you know anyone interested
[23:38] <bkerensa> :D
[23:39] <nathwill> what tablet, what price?
[23:50] <nathwill> so can i use this aws stuff as a CDN?
[23:51] <bkerensa> yeah
[23:51] <bkerensa> if you make a script to sync to S3
[23:51] <nathwill> hrm
[23:51] <nathwill> so s3 is really what i'm looking for
[23:52] <bkerensa> LOL
[23:52] <bkerensa> no
[23:52] <nathwill> cuz i don't really need the rest of this.
[23:52] <bkerensa> MaxCDN is
[23:52] <bkerensa> :D
[23:52] <nathwill> i don't understand
[23:52] <nathwill> lol
[23:52] <bkerensa> EC2 is a VPS/Cloud Instance
[23:52] <bkerensa> S3 is just web storage
[23:52] <nathwill> ah
[23:52] <nathwill> well then...


[01:19] <pleia2> airports airports, I've chiped in on the AI article and moved it to the Canonical spot, otherwise the newsletter is looking pretty complete
[01:19] <pleia2> jose: you'll move to wiki and get off to editors?
[01:20] <jose> pleia2: yep! will work on it in a bit
[01:20] <jose> packing ÑD
[01:20] <jose> :D *
[01:20] <pleia2> I'll do a editorial review when I'm home tomorrow afternoon before publishing
[01:20] <pleia2> woo TLF :)
[01:20] <jose> great!
[01:20] <jose> yep ÑD
[01:20] <jose> urgh, keyboard switch fail :P
[01:20] <pleia2> I'm in Lima airport, boarding in ~20 minutes
[01:20] <pleia2> so packing up now :)
[01:21] <pleia2> have safe flights tomorrow!
[01:21] <jose> thanks, you too! hope everything goes alright
[01:21] <pleia2> thanks
[01:21] <jose> also, you feeling better_
[10:01] <pleia2> jose: feeling much better, thanks :) darn altitude in cusco
[10:36] <MooDoo> loving the pic pleia2 :)
[10:36] <MooDoo> pics on fb i meant lol
[13:01]  * ahoneybun guesses pleia2 did not like the weather in Miami lol
[20:17] <PaulW2U> editorial review done
[20:27] <pleia2> thanks PaulW2U \o/
[21:24] <pleia2> ugh, travel stomach, will work to publish in a bit, need to take it easy