[04:42] <Baribal> Hi. I'm just now writing my first upstart script, and I wrote a minimal service in Python to test it. What signal does upstart use when stopping a daemon? First STOP, then KILL?
[13:32] <nimo> I want to execute a script at every shutdown.... can I do it simple?
[19:30] <nimo> my upstart script wont run at boot... but when i run it on the fly it works
[19:30] <nimo> http://pastebin.mozilla.org/2109288


[06:01] <czajkowski> anyone else up to watch ireland v usa ?
[06:05] <pleia2> I didn't even know the US had a rugby team
[06:15] <czajkowski> ye do
[06:15] <czajkowski> our ex ireland coach
[06:35]  * cjohnston just cant sleep... I guess too much to think about today
[06:43] <czajkowski> they had a min silence at the begining of the USA V Ireland game
[06:43] <cjohnston> cool
[06:45] <czajkowski> oh try for ire!
[06:45] <czajkowski> :D
[06:47] <czajkowski> I got a nice mail of sabdfl yesterday after my blog post on the world cup and rugby on planet.u.c
[06:47] <cjohnston> is he watching?
[06:49] <czajkowski> do't know
[06:49] <czajkowski> he's going to some of them
[06:49] <cjohnston> cool
[06:49] <czajkowski> hmm they just replayed the USA min silence and some guy goes, GO AMERICA
[06:49] <czajkowski> :/
[07:13] <czajkowski> oh ye got a penatly 3 pts
[07:44] <czajkowski> Final score 22 Ireland 10 USA
[07:45] <cjohnston> boo
[08:20] <head_victim> cjohnston: it's ok Australia will beat Ireland next week to make up for it ;)
[08:22] <cjohnston> I'm ok with that
[09:37] <czajkowski> head_victim: is that so
[09:37] <head_victim> czajkowski: indeed :)
[09:38] <czajkowski> interesting
[09:38] <czajkowski> it'll possible be us and ye guys getting through the pool
[09:38] <czajkowski> USA got a fluke of a try in the last 2 mins
[09:39] <head_victim> Italy looked pretty good in spots today
[09:39] <czajkowski> spots being the word
[09:40] <czajkowski> ohh WALES 9 SA 10
[09:40] <czajkowski> :D
[09:40] <head_victim> I haven't seen the northern hemisphere teams play in over 6 months so it's been interesting getting a feel for where they're at.
[09:41] <head_victim> Who won the most recent regional tournament up there?
[09:41] <czajkowski> England won 6 nations
[09:41] <czajkowski> we got tripple crown
[09:41] <czajkowski> but we beat england
[09:42] <head_victim> Ok, just nice having a feel for where teams are against each other. Down here it's Aus/NZ/SA
[09:42] <czajkowski> and soon Argentina
[09:42] <head_victim> AU and NZ are very close
[09:42] <czajkowski> and they put up a good fight yesterday
[09:44] <czajkowski> having to log a bug in the middle of my rugby watching is not pleasing me one bit!!!!
[10:08] <head_victim> AlanBell: ping, if someone is the chair for meetingology and quits and rejoins, how is it best to proceed?
[10:11] <czajkowski> cant you pass chair to someoe
[10:11] <czajkowski> or have someone who's not gonna ping out chair :)
[10:11] <head_victim> Hah yeah it wasn't intentional :/
[10:11] <head_victim> It seems it still had them running as chair. They tried to start again and it wouldn't let them but it did let them end it. So we just started over
[10:12] <czajkowski> hah
[10:13] <czajkowski> tis all over
[10:13] <czajkowski> 17 16 to SA
[10:15] <czajkowski> ok now going back to bed
[10:15] <czajkowski> nn al
[10:15] <czajkowski> all
[10:17] <head_victim> Night czajkowski
[10:46] <AlanBell> head_victim: ops can act as chair
[10:47] <head_victim> AlanBell: ah nice to know. Voices as well or just full ops? I figured there'd be a workaround but just wanted to ask as it came up.
[10:47] <AlanBell> and quitting and rejoining shouldn't matter much
[10:47] <AlanBell> full ops
[10:48] <AlanBell> so you can op up, #chair yourself, deop and carry on
[10:48] <AlanBell> or #endmeeting as an op etc
[11:05] <daker> >:( i need to filter those RWC tweets
[11:06] <nigelb> lol
[11:06] <nigelb> My entire stream is full of them.
[11:06] <nigelb> Now I regret not spamming my twitter about world cup :)
[11:06] <nigelb> (cricket world cup)
[11:07] <daker> ツ
[11:09] <Pendulum> hiya
[11:10] <daker> hi Pendulum
[11:12] <nigelb> Morning Pendulum :)
[16:21] <czajkowski> jcastro: finally got to log that anoying unity bug, but don;t remember who to poke https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/846903
[16:21] <ubot2`> Ubuntu bug 846903 in unity "Alt-tab switcher freezing" [Undecided,New]
[18:58] <akgraner> jussi ping
[21:47] <mhall119> daker: is French widely spoken in Morocco?
[21:58] <AlanBell> mhall119: it is
[21:58] <AlanBell> fun place :)
[22:42] <duanedesign> jcastro: ping


[01:46] <kiko> oy
[01:46] <carlos> hi
[01:47] <danilos> yo
[01:47] <kiko> stub!
[01:47] <kiko> thanks for joining in
[01:47] <kiko> so for the +translate timeouts
[01:47] <danilos> thanks stub
[01:47] <carlos> stub: how do you feel?
[01:47] <kiko> there are some approaches we can take
[01:47] <stub> ok. Had a nice nap.
[01:48] <kiko> 1. we currently issue a large number of suggestion queries per page; I could change the code to issue only 4
[01:49] <kiko> 2. we could change the loading of suggestions to come in via ajax. one question is whether to do it as N small hits or as the 4 queries (as I propose in 1.)
[01:49] <danilos> will we sacrifice detail for 1? like not listing which are "used in..." etc?
[01:49] <kiko> 3. we could do the database refactoring and then revisit the issue again.
[01:49] <danilos> or is it only about 4 BIG queries?
[01:49] <kiko> no, danilos -- equivalent queries, but doing them in one shot instead of 10
[01:50] <danilos> kiko: ok, but how much will that help? stub?
[01:50] <carlos> kiko: will it work if a user selects 100 queries?
[01:50] <kiko> you mean 100 translations?
[01:50] <kiko> yeah, it will
[01:50] <kiko> it will issue only 4 queries
[01:50] <carlos> kiko: yeah, sorry
[01:50] <kiko> one for each type of suggestion
[01:50] <stub> Issuing fewer, large queries is generally better than many small.
[01:50] <kiko> (or are they 5? I forget. it's a small number)
[01:50] <stub> But we need to time them to be sure.
[01:50] <kiko> I think it will help some, but not too much
[01:50] <carlos> kiko: me too, I think it's just 4
[01:51] <carlos> I would like to do both
[01:51] <danilos> stub, kiko: I am more thinking on order of magnitude -- I am aware it will help, but will it help enough?
[01:51] <carlos> optimise the DB + move it to reduce the amount of queries
[01:51] <kiko> it's basically an "id IN (...)" query instead of N "id = X"  queries
[01:51] <carlos> even if just the optimisation kills the timeouts
[01:51] <kiko> danilos, it won't help enough, no. it will mitigate the problem.
[01:51] <danilos> carlos ++
[01:51] <danilos> kiko: ok, so I am all for both, just like carlos
[01:52] <kiko> the only reason for doing 1. before 3. is because I don't know when you guys can get to 3.
[01:52] <kiko> I'm really unhappy with all the pain being inflicted on SteveA and I on rosetta 1.0
[01:52] <stub> If we are going to trim the tables down as specced, we might as well do it first to avoid needing to redo work.
[01:52] <kiko> and I want to make sure the distractions stop so that you can concentrate on those items.
[01:52] <stub> Also any benchmarking on the old schema will be irrelevant with the new schema
[01:52] <kiko> stub, nobody's going to have time before 1.0 -- rosetta's in bad shape
[01:53] <danilos> stub: it involves changing a lot of existing code, so no go at this time, I think
[01:53] <stub> ok. So 3 isn't an option.
[01:53] <kiko> stub, I don't think you have much time either..
[01:53] <carlos> kiko: the only problem with DB optimisations is the migration process
[01:53] <kiko> carlos, and updating the code.
[01:53] <carlos> not really, we are talking about more than 24 hours to do the migration....
[01:53] <carlos> at least that was our guess at all hands
[01:53] <danilos> carlos: well, each and every query, class usage (ok, we can mitigate that by providing same interfaces in code), etc.
[01:54] <carlos> we cannot block the DB for 24 hours...
[01:54] <danilos> carlos: ah, right, but I guess we can block rosetta input for 24 hours
[01:54] <carlos> danilos: and the rest of launchpad
[01:54] <danilos> then do the migration on carbon or something
[01:55] <danilos> hum... stub, any ideas?
[01:55] <kiko> carlos, 24 hours of migration downtime is manageable, but taking weeks to do the code update is not so much
[01:55] <stub> Nothing that will be aailable in the short term.
[01:55] <stub> It might not be 24 hours - again, we won't know until we have benchmarked it.
[01:55] <kiko> danilos, carlos, stub: we could disable rosetta for that period and survive.
[01:55] <danilos> ok... btw, stub, will you be considering 8.2 upgrade soon?
[01:55] <carlos> kiko: without distractions, I'm sure I would migrate code in a couple of working days
[01:56] <kiko> carlos, a "couple". :-)
[01:56] <stub> kiko: We can't do that yet. It isn't implemented. Same with read only launchpad.
[01:56] <carlos> tests shouldn't be an issue...
[01:56] <carlos> kiko: 2
[01:56] <kiko> stub, I mean, we could disable translations.launchpad.net and put a page there.
[01:56] <kiko> stub, and turn off the cronjobs
[01:56] <carlos> kiko: no, I already talked with stuart about it, and the migration would lock person table too
[01:56] <stub> Hmm... is it all on the one domain now? Then we could.
[01:56] <carlos> and that will lock the rest of launchpad
[01:57] <kiko> carlos, oh. the person table?!
[01:57] <stub> carlos: I could work around that by dropping the constraint during migration.
[01:57] <danilos> can't we have a read-only copy of person table? (we won't be changing it)
[01:57] <carlos> kiko: we are moving that reference between tables
[01:58] <carlos> stub: if you feel confident about that, then it's fine for me to shutdown rosetta for the migration, that makes the process much more easy
[01:58] <kiko> yeah.
[01:58] <danilos> we can only run into problems with accounts being merged into anothers while we do the migration, right?
[01:58] <kiko> that's what I was thinking
[01:58] <stub> danilos: That is a good point.
[01:58] <kiko> danilos, we can disable merging, good point.
[01:59] <carlos> that should be easy too
[01:59] <kiko> it's work, I know
[01:59] <carlos> at least more easy than playing with triggers and trying to do it on a live system...
[01:59] <stub> We still need to test this though - we need to have disabled anything that looks at the rosetta tables, and I'm guessing we have portlets around that want to do that.
[01:59] <kiko> but it's at least not launchpad downtime for an undetermined time
[01:59] <kiko> mmmm
[01:59] <danilos> anyway, so, our plan is? go with 1 (optimize translate to have constant number of queries), then when 1.0 rolls out, go on with db optimizations as well
[01:59] <kiko> stub, can't they go on querying the old tables? or will that be a disaster?
[02:00] <kiko> danilos, there was the ajax solution. how do people feel about that?
[02:00] <danilos> kiko: more work for "jumpy" page, imho
[02:00] <stub> That would work I guess.
[02:00] <danilos> i.e. suggestions popping up as they're loaded
[02:00] <danilos> expanding the page, etc.
[02:00] <kiko> it's true
[02:00] <kiko> carlos, is that how your patch behaved?
[02:01] <kiko> I think it also makes it harder for us to tell what the end-user experience is
[02:01] <danilos> if we use clickety-drop-downs, then that won't be very discoverable, imho
[02:01] <danilos> right
[02:01] <carlos> kiko: I think it was hidden and when the user selected it
[02:01] <carlos> we expand and load the suggestions
[02:01] <carlos> kiko: if non ajax solution works well, I would prefer it
[02:02] <danilos> I think this is basically just hiding the problem
[02:02] <kiko> danilos, well, mitigating the problem
[02:02] <danilos> though, it might make sense for any *complete* translations
[02:02] <danilos> i.e. if a message is translated, don't show the suggestions
[02:02] <danilos> that might even turn out to be better UI, imo
[02:03] <carlos> anyway, we should do that *after* the optimisation
[02:03] <danilos> (don't show == use ajax to show them)
[02:03] <danilos> well, I think these are mutually exclusive
[02:04] <danilos> almost, anyway
[02:04] <danilos> i.e. ajax still means separate queries for each message
[02:05] <kiko> carlos, yeah, you think so?
[02:05] <kiko> danilos, well, maybe not, but it's more complex if so.
[02:05] <danilos> though, if we go with above of showing suggestions by default only for untranslated messages
[02:05] <carlos> well, I guess that we can optimise it, and later add the ajax part as an extra feature
[02:06] <danilos> both would turn out useful
[02:06] <danilos> carlos: agreed
[02:06] <carlos> I know will not be 100% reused and will require more changes
[02:06] <kiko> ok.
[02:06] <kiko> so fine, leave +translate with me for the time being. I will refactor the queries and then we'll see how it looks
[02:06] <danilos> ok
[02:06] <kiko> hopefully 1.0 will be in better shape by then
[02:06] <kiko> thanks.
[02:06] <danilos> now, another db related thing: search?
[02:07] <danilos> do we only want google-search at this time, or should we go with db search as well?
[02:07] <danilos> db search may require db upgrade at the very least (for partial indexes)
[02:08] <carlos> I think we should keep going with the search feature
[02:08] <danilos> hum, maybe not
[02:08] <danilos> http://www.postgresql.org/docs/8.0/static/indexes-partial.html
[02:08] <kiko> google-search for now will be enough
[02:08] <carlos> as planned
[02:08] <kiko> after 1.0 you can come back to proper searching
[02:08] <danilos> I was under the impression that this required 8.2 at least
[02:09] <stub> yup
[02:09] <kiko> IF you surprise me and deliver 1.0 without me getting fired
[02:09] <carlos> kiko: sure, search was a post 1.0 feature
[02:09] <kiko> okay.
[02:09] <kiko> carlos, please make an effort to get TR landed so I can do browsing next week, ok?
[02:10] <carlos> kiko: I will do it before leaving, don't worry
[02:10] <kiko> thanks
[02:11] <carlos> danilos: so, let's defer that for post 1.0
[02:11] <danilos> carlos: right
[02:14] <carlos> kiko: anything else?
[02:15] <kiko> carlos, danilos: no. thanks a lot!
[02:15] <kiko> thanks for joining too stub
[02:15] <carlos> thanks dudes!
[02:15] <danilos> yup, especially stub, hope you get better soon
[02:15] <danilos> :)


[12:18] <slickymaster> flocculant, claimed the review of https://code.launchpad.net/~flocculant/ubuntu-manual-tests/1508810-12/+merge/275640
[17:19] <GOH> hi


[03:58] <[reed]> [17:40:36] <asac> [10:32:30] [reed] can find out more about amo policy and requirements and escalation paths
[03:58] <[reed]> what do you want to know
[04:04] <micahg> [reed]: I was wondering what to do with bugs we get for extensions on amo
[04:04] <micahg> [reed]: also, was oji added back to 1.9.2 on anything but OS X?
[04:05] <[reed]> report them to the author unless they are security bugs, in which they go to AMO
[04:05] <[reed]> that's a good question
[04:06] <[reed]> maybe just OS X :(
[04:06] <[reed]> let me ask
[04:06] <micahg> [reed]: all I could find was mozilla bug 517355
[04:07]  * micahg kicks ubottu
[07:01] <mac_v> how do i transfer my chrome settings to a new install?
[09:16] <BUGabundo_work> morning
[14:09] <BUGabundo_work> wb asac
[14:09] <asac> hi
[14:09] <asac> i am on vac ;)
[14:09] <asac> and bad connection too
[14:09] <BUGabundo_work> ahhh
[14:09] <BUGabundo_work> enjoy then
[14:13] <asac> bbl
[14:13] <fta> i'm on vac tonight
[15:12] <asac> bug 453682
[15:13] <asac> bug 431963
[15:13] <asac> bug 431963
[15:16] <asac> bug 488267
[15:20] <fta> hm
[18:33] <micahg> fta: just saw the reject for prism, just I just bump the ubuntu version and push another revision up?
[18:42] <micahg> asac: TB31 might ship before Lucid :( https://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird:Thunderbird3.1
[18:44] <asac> step by step ;)
[19:02] <micahg> asac: regarding bug 367827, are we going to get into an alternative priority war, or should I just reassign to the preferred applications app which should have set this for the user
[19:12] <asac> jdstrand: done with ff
[19:13] <asac> micahg: the idea was to have default installed apps with lower prio
[19:13] <asac> than the ones users install later
[19:13] <asac> the background is that we think that installing an app explicitly means that the user most likely wants t use that
[19:13] <asac> and he can go back by uninstalling
[19:13] <asac> makes sense?
[19:14] <micahg> yep. but what about the bug?  shouldn't prefered applications show the default?
[19:14] <asac> the x-www-browser alternative is independent from gnome preferred apps
[19:14] <asac> its legacy
[19:14] <asac> baiscally users shouldnt use it
[19:15] <asac> and apps should be migrated away
[19:15] <asac> to xdg-open or something
[19:15] <asac> at some point we should make a project to get rid of it entirely ;)
[19:15] <asac> but that will give push back from bunch of hard core alternatives addicts ;)
[19:16] <micahg> asac: ok, so I should assign to Thunderbird then and check with upstream about changing how it works (or if it's fixed in TB3)
[19:16] <asac> micahg: tbird opens the preferred app from gnome if -gnome-support is installe
[19:16] <asac> d
[19:17] <micahg> ok, so I should ask if that's installed then
[19:17] <asac> or do we ship x-www-browser as a pref somewhere in package?
[19:17] <asac> we should then ship xdg-open instead i guess
[19:17] <asac> yeah
[19:17] <micahg> ok, I'll assign this to TB then, if gnome-support is installed, then I'll check for a pref somewhere
[19:20] <jdstrand> asac: ack
[19:32] <fta> asac, wget -qO- https://edge.launchpad.net/~chromium-daily/+archive/ppa/+build/1403991/+files/buildlog_ubuntu-lucid-i386.chromium-browser_4.0.276.0~svn20091218r34953-0ubuntu1~ucd1_FULLYBUILT.txt.gz | zgrep ^PERF
[21:02] <micahg> seems like I messed up on the changelog entries for the translation fixes :)
[21:02] <micahg> I'll go close them manually...
[21:07] <micahg> asac: do you still want to do the slovak .desktop translation in karmic?
[21:12] <mac_v> anyone know how i can transfer chrome user data to a new install?


[18:51] <kbidd> I'm having some issues with my new mythtv setup... I recently reinstalled with mythbuntu 14.04 (from 12.04 - I did a re-install rather than an update, but backed-up and restored my database before the reinstall).  Everything seems to be working normally (can watch TV and record fine, and my recordings all carried over from the old install), except that my auto-shutdown/resume isn't working anymore.  I use mythwelcome, and s
[18:51] <kbidd> et the commands to /opt/setwakeup.sh and /opt/suspend.sh (my custom wakeup/suspend scripts), but they never seem to get called (they have a logging statement as the first line).  Also, mythwelcome reports "MythTV is idle", but never reports the "is idle and will shutdown it XX seconds" message it used to.
[18:52] <kbidd> is there some obvious setting that I could have screwed up that would prevent the backend / mythwelcome from even attempting a shutdown?  I have the idle time set to 3 minutes, time to wait for recording set to 5 minutes, and wakeup before recordings set to 60 seconds (I suspend, not shut down)
[19:12] <kbidd> just got help from mythtv-users --- someone suggested a cron job to restart the backend if there are no idle messages in the log, and mythshutdown --check returns 0
[19:12] <Jay2k1> (that was me)
[19:13] <kbidd> (thanks again :))


[04:47] <scott__> yo
[04:48] <scott__> anyone home?
[04:48] <Adamant1988> I am.
[04:48] <scott__> hey man
[04:48] <Adamant1988> Hello.
[04:48] <scott__> you were the one responding to my post
[04:48] <scott__> http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=2137281#post2137281
[04:48] <Adamant1988> Which one would that be?
[04:49] <Adamant1988> Oh, so you're Murray?
[04:49] <scott__> ya
[04:50] <scott__> whats goin on
[04:51] <Adamant1988> Not too awful much.
[04:51] <Adamant1988> I'm talking to a lot of people about the hardware compatibility site we're working to make
[04:52] <scott__> hmmm
[04:52] <scott__> sounds fun
[04:53] <Adamant1988> Not really
[04:53] <Adamant1988> But I think it needs to be done, and I'm not the only one who believes so.
[04:53] <scott__> well good for you
[04:55] <scott__> i think im going to try and get Qemu on my USB key to boot up xubuntu
[04:55] <scott__> while in windows
[04:56] <Adamant1988> I'm in Windows right now actually
[04:56] <scott__> i got that shizz Qemulated so i never gotta boot it
[04:57] <scott__> thats the way she goes
[04:57] <Adamant1988> Haha, well, I'm not big on emulation
[04:59] <scott__> i just started with it, very interesting thing it is
[05:00] <Adamant1988> Yeah, I just prefer to actually test.  Tells me more.
[05:00] <scott__> what do you mean
[05:03] <Adamant1988> I can run something in virtualization and I know it will work on whatever hardware it's virtualized for.  But I want to test how it works on *my* hardware and such.
[05:17] <jenda> hey, folks
[05:17] <jenda> Adamant1988: oi, long time ;)
[05:19] <Adamant1988> hello Jenda
[05:20] <Adamant1988> yeah, it has been.
[05:20] <Adamant1988> How has the team been doing?
[05:20] <jenda> Not bad :)
[05:20] <jenda> Even my project has actually moved a bit ;)
[05:21] <jenda> check out diy.devubuntu.com - it's getting there.
[05:22] <Adamant1988> Other projects still stagnant?
[05:34] <jenda> not all
[05:34] <jenda> the UWN is very active (almost regular)
[05:34] <jenda> the counter is finished... others are +- stagnant.
[05:38] <elkbuntu> the uwn is a week late now
[05:45] <jenda> :/
[05:45] <jenda> G'night :)
[05:45] <Burgundavia> somerville32 seems to have vanished
[05:46] <jenda> yup :/
[05:46] <Burgundavia> ok, that means I will have to do it myself tomorrow
[05:50] <Burgundavia> !seen somerville32
[05:52] <elkbuntu> -NickServ-           Last Seen: 2 days (16h 49m 22s) ago
[05:52] <Burgundavia> hmm
[05:52] <Burgundavia> no storms in NS recently
[07:04] <Adamant1988> Jenda, you around?
[07:04] <Adamant1988> actually, is anyone around?
[07:06] <Madpilot> I'm slightly around
[07:06] <Adamant1988> Need some feedback
[07:07] <Adamant1988> I'm working with a group to make a disto-agnostic hardware compatibility list that doesn't suck.  I've made a skeletal mockup of a theoretical site design, can you give feedback?
[07:07] <Adamant1988> http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/3144/mockupskeletonio1.jpg
[07:17] <Madpilot> my $0.02: too much whitespace, for not enough info
[07:23] <Adamant1988> Part of the goal was to not crowd it.  but I certainly will keep your opinion in mind and see if I can add more information to it without getting it too crowded
[07:23] <Adamant1988> any suggestions?
[07:33] <Burgundavia> Adamant1988: you need to look at http://www.phoronix.com/?page=news_item&px=NDY1OA
[07:34] <Burgundavia> and https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-February/msg00000.html
[07:35] <Burgundavia> it would rock if Fedora adn Ubuntu could share an HCL
[07:36] <Adamant1988> This would be user maintained and distro-agnostic.
[07:36] <Adamant1988> They would upload the data themselves, we would moderate to prevent spam, duplicates, etc.
[07:37] <Burgundavia> there are lots of those efforts out there
[07:37] <Burgundavia> might as well join one that already exists
[07:37] <Burgundavia> and by lots, I mean dozens, at the very least
[07:38] <Adamant1988> I've seen them, and a lot of them are wikis, and what have you... linuxcompatible.org is the closest thing to what I have seen, and it's so crowded and hard to use.
[07:38] <Burgundavia> what they need is a client, backed up by the webbased database
[07:38] <Burgundavia> certain things should be wiki, most things should be not
[07:38] <Burgundavia> certain data should only come from the client
[07:38] <Adamant1988> So you're saying a program?
[07:39] <Adamant1988> and the program sends data to the database, and it's all made available there?
[07:39] <Burgundavia> yes
[07:39] <Burgundavia> if you don't have a consistent client, the data will suck, period
[07:39] <Adamant1988> That sounds like it would raise privacy concerns... "this organization is just trying to steal my info!1!!1!!shift+one!1!1"
[07:39] <Burgundavia> no, the client woudl only be run by the user
[07:39] <Burgundavia> ala the current program in Ubuntu
[07:40] <Burgundavia> or smolt
[07:40] <Adamant1988> The problem is that an automated client like that won't give you the story behind the hardware.  It won't know what a PITA it is to get that graphics card up and running
[07:40] <Burgundavia> no, you can do that
[07:40] <Burgundavia> have you run the current hwdb client?
[07:40] <Adamant1988> Nope, I'm in windows.
[07:40] <Burgundavia> right
[07:40] <Burgundavia> there is your first flaw
[07:40] <Adamant1988> Ubuntu lappy took a nose-dive
[07:40] <Burgundavia> I suggest you run smolt and the current hwdb client
[07:41] <Burgundavia> any sort of HCL-thingy needs to be really thoughout
[07:41] <Burgundavia> but it needs to be done
[07:42] <Adamant1988> have to get a linux friendly wireless card first.  And whatever the site is I think it needs to be something all distributions can participate in.. not just Ubuntu
[07:42] <Adamant1988> or Fedora
[07:42] <Burgundavia> right
[07:42] <Burgundavia> so what you need is a distro using it
[07:43] <Burgundavia> so I say get the smolt client working and installed by default into Ubuntu and get the LHCP project RH is funding up and running
[07:44] <Adamant1988> Ok, so Smolt would sort this data out and make it easily available and readable?
[07:44] <Adamant1988> on a web DB?
[07:44] <Burgundavia> smolt is a client to send data to a server
[07:44] <Burgundavia> https://hosted.fedoraproject.org/projects/LHCP
[07:44] <Adamant1988> But I have no experience with this client idea.  Smolt would say "How hard was it to get your wireless card working?"
[07:45] <Burgundavia> basically
[07:46] <Adamant1988> That sounds like it would be a bit easier, but other distributions would have to include this client as well..
[07:47] <Burgundavia> yes, hence why it is easier to join an existing project
[07:47] <Burgundavia> if any project can get at least two distros shipping its client, you are much better off
[07:47] <Adamant1988> Which will tell you how well those two distributions work with that select hardware.
[07:47] <Adamant1988> But another distribution would preform differently.
[07:47] <Burgundavia> pretty much
[07:48] <Burgundavia> there is no perfect system
[07:48] <Burgundavia> and you are not going to get any distros to start pushing data to anybody by default unless somebody is already using it
[07:48] <Adamant1988> I think the fully online DB version is equally valid
[07:48] <Adamant1988> Since individuals could go to the site and load the info on their new printer, camera, etc.
[07:49] <Burgundavia> but then you get crap data
[07:49] <Burgundavia> and you are just another HCL out there with crap data
[07:49] <Burgundavia> do you see what I mean? there already have been lots of these projects
[07:50] <Adamant1988> Ok, well, how would you propose we not get crap data, but not require the installation of a client to get the data.  The goal is for all distributions to be able to use it...
[07:50] <Adamant1988> or at the very least, the big ones.
[07:50] <Burgundavia> you are not going to get lots of data until you get a distro to install it and promote it
[07:50] <Adamant1988> So, push the Smolt thing on other distributions?
[07:50] <Burgundavia> no
[07:51] <Burgundavia> get smolt into Fedora and Ubuntu, driving to a common db
[07:52] <Adamant1988> Which is two distributions, what about OpenSuse? What about Debian, or Linspire?
[07:52] <Burgundavia> sure, if you can get them involved
[07:53] <Burgundavia> basically I am saying this "HCLs are a good idea, but you need good data. Another non-distro-specific HCL without backing of at least one of the major distros is not going to work"
[07:54] <Adamant1988> Ok, I think I understand.  Now, is there any way that a web app could collect the same kind of data that an on-board client could collect?
[07:57] <Adamant1988>  I know there are web based virus scanners, perhaps a firefox plugin could be created to do this scan and send the data to our web DB?
[07:57] <Adamant1988> That would be distro agnostic, but would still get the same hardware data, correct?
[07:57] <Burgundavia> a firefox plugin might be a good idea
[07:58] <Burgundavia> almost everybody has firefox installed
[07:59] <Adamant1988> That could be a good middle ground.
[07:59] <Adamant1988> That would auto-detect hardware and linux distribution, and you could use the plugin/extension to add the data to the DB
[08:04] <Adamant1988> How would that detect things like Cameras, mp3 players, etc though?
[08:07] <Madpilot> speaking of incomplete, fairly useless HCLs: System76's is in this category...
[08:07] <Adamant1988> Haha
[08:08] <Madpilot> I wanted to see what motherboard they used in their Koala Mini... their "Components" list in their wiki doesn't even have a Motherboards category yet...
[08:09] <Red_herrinG|Zzzz> wtf? ive been in this room for way too long
[08:09] <Red_herrinG|Zzzz> apologies everyone
[08:09] <Adamant1988> What language are firefox extensions written in? Java?
[08:10] <Burgundavia> no idea
[08:10] <Burgundavia> maybe XUL?
[08:10] <Burgundavia> certainly not Java
[08:10] <Adamant1988> Ah, wasn't sure.. I'm talking with some people, we're trying to figure out how hard a firefox plugin would be to do.
[08:13] <elkbuntu> xul afaik
[08:14] <Burgundavia> you can do amazing things with XUL
[02:07] <Zerlinna> juliux can you send me the actual version of uwn30? I can't use gobby here and we'd like to start translating
[02:08] <juliux> Zerlinna, i have no idea if this is the final version
[02:11] <Zerlinna> juliux doesn't matter, we have to start translating before the final version otherwise the translation would be far too late
[02:11] <juliux> Zerlinna, i can try to connct to gobby but i am not sure if it works a the moment because my vpn server is down
[02:12] <juliux> Zerlinna, i can't connect to gobby at the moment because the firewall blocks the gobby port
[02:12] <Zerlinna> juliux ok.. if it's not possible now, just send it to me when it's working again plz
[02:13] <juliux> Zerlinna, and pls translate the uwn in wiki.ubuntu.com
[02:14] <Zerlinna> juliux if you want to help translating we'll be happy to create you an account in our wiki (like anybody else) ;)
[02:14] <juliux> Zerlinna, i am not happy to have hunderts of wiki accounts, a wiki is something that should be open for everybody
[02:19] <Zerlinna> juliux me neither... I also would love to have the event planning on wiki.ubuntu.org p.ex ;)
[02:20] <Zerlinna> well. anyway.. it would be great if you could send me uwn30 when you can reach gobby again in order that we can get things going
[02:20] <juliux> Zerlinna, the offical german wiki is wiki.ubuntuuser.de and not wiki.ubuntu.com that is the difference;)
[02:22] <Zerlinna> and though one needs another wiki account for this wiki... but we don't want to split hairs, do we?
[02:22] <Zerlinna> I'm looking forward to your mail with the uwn30... see ya
[02:23] <juliux> Zerlinna, i never think a wiki with a account is a good idea
[08:39] <sid> elkbuntu do you have the polls you took awhile ago? is that public information yet?
[09:04] <cguser> Hello, I am interested in submitting a story to the UWN about our LoCo.  What is the best way to go about doing that?
[09:05] <Admiral_Chicago> cguser: put it up online, link to the page.
[09:06] <Admiral_Chicago> or mail the link to the list....tha works better
[09:09] <cguser> on a wiki? It is more of an announcement. Just "The Georgia LoCo is now holding regualr IRC meetings, feel free to drop in and visit"
[09:09] <cguser> Is that something yall want?
[09:10] <Admiral_Chicago> cguser: that's fine. just mail the list with your IRC channel, contact, maybe a link to the LoCo page. Also, a time.
[09:10] <cguser> or do you prefer larger stories?
[09:10] <cguser> ok
[09:10] <cguser> thanks!
[09:10] <Admiral_Chicago> cguser: we would put that in LoCo news, we can definetly use that
[09:11] <Admiral_Chicago> np. ty for contacting us
[10:38] <Rinchen>