[08:13] <DanChapman> morning all
[08:19] <Noskcaj> hey DanChapman
[08:49] <Daviey> jibel not around today?
[08:49] <DanChapman> Daviey, he is on leave this week i believe
[08:51] <Daviey> DanChapman: Happen to know who can retry jenkins jobs?
[08:52] <DanChapman> Daviey, the only other person i know is pitti, but i think he is on leave as well. gema_ might know someone who can??
[08:54] <Daviey> DanChapman: thanks
[08:54] <jamespage> Daviey, I can do that - which one
[08:54] <jamespage> ?
[08:56] <Daviey> jamespage: Well.. I wanted to check a few of these.. https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/DKMS/view/Precise%20Proposed%20-generic-lts-raring/ .. I cannot believe the world is suddenly that bad
[08:57] <Daviey> jamespage: I did see one that failed due to waiting for the worker, or similar message.. and assumed there was a hiccup in the infra.
[08:58] <jamespage> Daviey, OK - I poked iscsitarget - I know that fails anyway but it atleast checks stuff is running oK
[09:53] <slickymaster> good morning all
[09:53] <DanChapman> morning slickymaster
[09:53] <slickymaster> DanChapman, hi, Dan
[11:46] <slickymaster> knome, ping
[15:01] <smartboyhw> SergioMeneses, hey
[15:05] <SergioMeneses> smartboyhw, \o how are you?
[15:05] <smartboyhw> SergioMeneses, great:)
[15:06] <smartboyhw> SergioMeneses, you managed to contact Zanchetta?
[15:07] <SergioMeneses> smartboyhw, not yet, sorry I'm going to send email to him soon ;)
[15:07] <smartboyhw> SergioMeneses, cheers:)
[15:07] <smartboyhw> balloons, wake up man
[15:07] <SergioMeneses> smartboyhw, \o/
[15:07] <SergioMeneses> wake up?
[15:07] <smartboyhw> SergioMeneses, tell balloons to wake up:P
[15:07] <SergioMeneses> balloons, has the same tz than I
[15:07] <smartboyhw> SergioMeneses, I know
[15:08] <smartboyhw> But, he doesn't seem to wake up as early as you:P
[15:08] <smartboyhw> Lazy guy
[15:08] <smartboyhw> ;P
[15:09] <SergioMeneses> jajajaja
[15:09] <SergioMeneses> "lazy"
[15:55] <balloons> phillw, elfy took me an extra day but I'm merging all the manual tests and doing a sync up
[16:04] <phillw> balloons: many thanks :)
[16:07] <DanChapman> afternoon balloons
[16:07] <balloons> afternoon DanChapman
[16:08] <balloons> DanChapman, anything you need? did you get a chance to share with the autopilot folks on the emulator idea?
[16:09] <DanChapman> balloons, I havn't spoke to them yet I was gonna wait till later for thomi to appear.
[16:10] <balloons> DanChapman, ahh.. well thomi of coursewill be waking up to Saturday, so I don't think we'll be seeing him this evening
[16:10] <balloons> we could just send along a mail to the autopilot list
[16:14] <DanChapman> lol oh yeah!! well I was mulling on it last night and think that maybe just creating an emulator for each app shouldn't actualy be to taxing in that with most it will just be a case of changing the class name. I will get a mail message together and send it to the list
[16:15] <balloons> :-) Sometimes I forget the simple things too. I'm just wondering which approach they would advocate for
[16:17] <balloons> phillw, will blueman appear even if you don't have bluetooth hardware?
[16:19] <phillw> balloons: I've never tried... I have bluetooth on my system.
[16:28] <balloons> phillw, so, since your about, you want to add these to lubuntu in the packages tracker/
[16:46] <phillw> balloons: yup, I'll add them now and email the L-QA people :)
[16:51] <phillw> I've also added blueman and live persistance as optional tests.
[17:08] <elfy> balloons: thanks boss :p
[17:10] <balloons> ok I think everyone is pushed to the tracker and source
[17:10] <balloons> ty gentlmen
[18:57] <Letozaf_> balloons, Hi
[18:57] <balloons> Letozaf_, hello
[18:57] <balloons> your change landed I see, but had some trouble in the lab
[18:57] <Letozaf_> balloons, you mean the calendar app one ?
[18:57] <balloons> yea
[18:59] <Letozaf_> balloons, :( can I help some way ?
[19:00] <balloons> Letozaf_, http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/smokeng/saucy/image/3564/calendar-app-autopilot/271094/
[19:00] <balloons> have a look and see what you think
[19:00] <balloons> no video sadly for the failure
[19:02] <Letozaf_> balloons, thats a weired error
[19:02] <Letozaf_> balloons, I mean the string is the one I input, so that error is quite strange
[19:03] <balloons> right, so something is failing in there.. could you add more asserts to ensure things are working?
[19:03] <Letozaf_> balloons, sure , mean while I fixed (well sort of fixed) the add feed test for the rssreader app
[19:04] <Letozaf_> balloons, it needs to be reviewed by you if you got time, there are a couple of "problems"
[19:05] <Letozaf_> balloons, I will now check that calendar app error and add more asserts
[19:07] <Letozaf_> balloons, well just to make things "easier" the add new event test works fine on my box :p
[19:07] <Letozaf_> balloons, anyway I will add some more asserts
[19:08] <balloons> Letozaf_, ohh nice.. the rss reader test is having trouble with the OSK, but improvement are always desired
[19:09] <balloons> I think they need to change some code in the app, as omer pointed out on the bug report
[19:11] <Letozaf_> balloons, anyway if you want here are the improvements I made: https://code.launchpad.net/~carla-sella/ubuntu-rssreader-app/view-feeds-test
[19:12]  * Letozaf_ is looking at the calendar-app error
[19:21] <Letozaf_> balloons, I added a couple of asserts and added lambda too to all the asserts, on my box the test works fine, if you want I will push it so you can try it where it fails
[19:23] <Letozaf_> balloons, https://code.launchpad.net/~carla-sella/ubuntu-calendar-app/calendar-app
[19:26] <balloons> Letozaf_, go for it.. OsoMon definitely reviewed your last one closely. -) I learned some things too, lol
[19:27] <Letozaf_> balloons, yes true, but in a sort of a way I like it, I also learned a lot :p
[19:28] <Letozaf_> balloons, I mean that you learn to code correctly and be precise :)
[19:29] <balloons> Letozaf_, yes, exactly. I too appreciated it
[19:30] <balloons> I can always improve :-)
[19:30] <Letozaf_> balloons, I think we never finish learning, thats a nice thing on open source, you learn from each other
[19:33] <balloons> I 100% agree Letozaf_
[19:33] <Letozaf_> balloons, :D
[19:33] <balloons> it is the power of open source.. we can write software that none of us could accomplish alone
[19:34] <Letozaf_> balloons, true
[19:40] <Letozaf_> balloons, I fixed another couple of little things on the calendar app, but you can get it now and try it to see if it works
[19:45] <balloons> Letozaf_, ok, was finishing a blog post :-) I'll check it out now
[19:46] <Letozaf_> balloons, :) no problem I just added two changes the last minute and wasn't sure you were going to get them
[20:09] <fginther> balloons, FYI, the jenkins report issue where it wasn't including the generic-mediumtests results is fixed
[20:09] <balloons> ohh sweetness
[20:16] <balloons> so Letozaf_ sorry, I realize I didn't type my result back :-) I get an error on importing a module
[20:17] <balloons>   File "/home/autopilot/calendar-app/tests/autopilot/calendar_app/tests/test_monthview.py", line 20, in <module>
[20:17] <balloons>     from dateutil.relativedelta import relativedelta ImportError: No module named dateutil.relativedelta
[20:17] <Letozaf_> balloons, oh! so what should we do to fix this ?
[20:18] <balloons> wild.. it's my b
[20:21] <balloons> Letozaf_, ahh it does work. i think I know why it's failing in the lab though
[20:22] <balloons> let's look at the code, but I'd guess those timebox animations are running longer in the lab and thus it can't select or misses selecting the input box
[20:22] <balloons> we can loop around it or detect the animations and wait for them to end
[20:24] <Letozaf_> balloons, oh! fine, but how do I see those animations, on a desktop they are not there
[20:26] <balloons> Letozaf_, well, let me give you some examples
[20:28] <balloons> Letozaf_, http://paste.ubuntu.com/5994078/
[20:30]  * Letozaf_ is reading
[20:32] <Letozaf_> balloons, oh! think  I understood :)
[20:33] <Letozaf_> balloons, but does this have to be done only for the location field or for all the fields of the new event
[20:33] <Letozaf_> balloons, component
[20:33] <balloons> Letozaf_, lol, you see the poor coding in the weather app..
[20:33] <balloons> haha, that was me
[20:34] <balloons> but yes, the loop is the key.
[20:34] <balloons> make sure you have a timeout as well.. actually, this could use improvement. the timeout should be passed in and default to 10, 20, 30 whaetever you want as a sane default
[20:34] <Letozaf_> balloons, well you code better than me anyway :p
[20:35] <balloons> it's easy to see mistakes even in your own code, given enough time
[20:35] <balloons> anyways  ihope that helps
[20:37] <Letozaf_> balloons, yes let me try this on the location field, let's see if I get it right
[20:39] <balloons> Letozaf_, the ideal way is to actually look at the animation bits.. as I said, that's something to ask omer26 abot
[20:40] <Letozaf_> balloons, but do I "see" these animations on a desktop ? maybe if I just ask omer26 he will explain this to me ?
[20:41] <balloons> Letozaf_, the animations are objects too.. notice the call in the first example
[20:41] <Letozaf_> balloons, maybe you mean look at them in the qml
[20:41] <balloons> yes, exactly. there may or may not be qml objects for the animations
[20:41] <balloons> I mean, there definitely should be, lol, but I guess determining them may or may not be easy.. I'm not sure what the best way to do that is
[20:41] <Letozaf_> balloons, yes I think I saw one in the rssreader app when you refresh for example
[21:58] <phillw> knome: ping (non-urgent)
[21:59] <knome> phillw, yup?
[22:07] <phillw> knome: is it elfy who has written up the gnumeric and abiword tests cases for xubuntu?
[22:07] <SergioMeneses> xfburn testcase will be ready this weekend
[22:07] <SergioMeneses> philipballew, knome \o
[22:07] <SergioMeneses> phillw, \o
[22:08] <SergioMeneses> tab trap
[22:08] <knome> phillw, possibly, i'm not aware of the details. how so?
[22:09] <phillw> knome: Lance, one of our testers has commented << could we also copy Xubuntu's test cases for 'abiword' and 'gnumeric'? Their testcases for those packages are not perfect (I'd like to see an addition regarding multiple pages) but they are much better than nothing ;^) >>
[22:10] <knome> phillw, sure! the testcases are in the tracker - by all means use them in your own testsuites!
[22:10] <knome> phillw, same goes without saying to any other testcases we've submitted
[22:11] <phillw> knome: I have :P the tester is asking if they could be extended to include multiple pages.
[22:11] <phillw> SergioMeneses: that sounds good :)
[22:13] <knome> phillw, sure. if you are going to do that, i'd say do it in a branch and try to split it in a meaningful way
[22:13] <knome> phillw, and feel free to say to set me as the merge proposal reviewer.
[22:14] <phillw> knome: I'm not yet upto speed on the system... things in RL have been a bit hectic.
[22:16] <phillw> But, I will pull pull the testcase down in RAW format and have a 'play' with it next week. (got a 2nd stage job interview next week for repairing laptops, 2 hour bench test to prove I can safely diagnose faults, pull the machine to bits if needed and then put it all back together :P )
[22:16] <knome> phillw, i'm fine if you put it in a pad or something that's relatively easy to copy over as well
[22:16] <knome> good luck with the intervie
[22:17] <phillw> 10 GBP / hour is not to be ignored :)
[22:18] <knome> that's not bad... though good luck finding an entrepreneur on the business to even think about moving their body parts around with that rate ;)
[22:18] <phillw> 4 days on (longish days) and 4 days off, is a dream job... allows me to still dedicate time to F/oss
[22:18]  * knome looks around to see if there are any in his past-midnight kitchen office
[22:20] <phillw> there's nothing quite like the feel of a hard day when you finally clean your arms of the detrious that was old thermal paste :P
[22:20] <knome> ugh.
[22:21] <knome> there's nothing like making the home office after having fought with the toothbrush and other home appliances for an hour ;)
[22:21] <knome> short way to work, but takes longer than actually leaving the house and going somewhere ;)
[22:22] <knome> i always feel so slimy when my friends whine about hard work - i've done one *night* of real work, otherwise i've always been an entrepreneur
[22:22] <phillw> I know, I was a relief / holding public house manager for over 10 years.... fall down the stairs in the moring, smile and you're at work :D
[22:22] <knome> lol
[22:23] <knome> oh the joys of having a one-floor home, no falling down the stairs, the head only falls the height of yourself
[22:23] <knome> ;)
[22:27] <phillw> each to what they enjoy, I do actually enjoy 'kit', I was going to go info electronics as a career, then computers happened!
[22:29] <phillw> But... and there is awlays a but... I've to pass the bench test 1st! As long as they do not ask me, in one hour, to replace the tcrt backlight in the screen of a laptop, I'm confident.. Only ever done that once before, it was not fun!
[22:30] <phillw> tcrt?...
[22:31] <phillw> CCFL :D
[22:31] <knome> heh
[22:31] <phillw> lmao at CRT :P
[22:31] <knome> no idea what you're talking about
[22:31] <knome> i'll try to keep as far from the hardware tinkering as possible
[22:33] <phillw> the backlight in most laptops is powered by a very, very thin tube... a couple of millimeters in diam. Just like a standard fluorescent tube you see in the ceilings at offices / shops etc... except very small and VERY fragile.
[22:34] <knome> yeah.
[22:34] <knome> i'd break it
[22:36] <phillw> breaking it is the least of your worries, manufacturers have the screens made to be un-economic in paid time to actually replace the backlight... They'd rather you buy a new machine.....
[22:51] <knome> :P
[22:52] <phillw> knome: this link shows just how thin the little critters are, and is not 100% tech talk :) http://computer.howstuffworks.com/question580.htm
[22:52] <knome> i'm sure
[22:52] <knome> but as i said, i'll try to keep away from the HW ;)


[01:13] <mtenen> hurray, I am running kubuntu 13.04 on a 8 year old computer - works great.
[02:45] <Guest61394> Hello. I'm trying to install Kubuntu in a machine with UEFI boot, but the installer is unable to install grub into the UEFI partition. What should I do?
[03:48] <cantinstallgrub> Hello. My Kubuntu installation fails in the end because it cannot install the grub-efi package successfully. I'm trying to recover it manually, following this page: http://superuser.com/questions/376470/how-to-reinstall-grub2-efi, but it doesn't work either, I get errors when trying to reinstall it. What should I do?
[05:49] <skreech_> !EFI
[05:49] <valorie> yeah, but s/he left
[06:00] <skreech_> No that was for me
[06:00] <skreech_>  I forget the stance of UEFI. I'm still really wary of buying a new computer because of it
[06:01] <valorie> ah, ok
[06:01] <valorie> hiya skreech_
[06:01] <skreech_> hi valorie!!!
[06:01]  * skreech_ huuuuuuugs
[06:01] <valorie> {{{{{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}}}}
[06:01] <valorie> seems to be a bit of a hurdle, but people overcome it
[06:17] <skreech_> valorie: is it still fragmented by Distro?
[06:18] <valorie> uefi? I don't know
[06:18] <valorie> I guess ask the arch, fedora and opensuse people about that
[08:11] <FloodBotK1> !netsplit
[10:21] <BluesKaj> HI folks
[10:39] <izanagi> argh, after kernel update, graphic drivers died - had to reinstall nvidia, but it is now working.
[11:07] <lordievader> Good afternoon.
[12:23] <viteac> HI
[12:24]  * viteac is wondering why there's no buttons LEAVE, RESTART in KUBUNTU 13.04
[12:25] <naughx> there is :o
[12:25] <smartboyhw> viteac, there certainly is
[12:25] <naughx> Open the KDE menu
[12:26] <viteac> then something wrong went after restarting, I do not have them
[12:26] <smartboyhw> :O
[12:26] <viteac> naughx: when I open Kmenu, I go to Leave/ there is only Logout and Lock
[12:27] <viteac> I regret now moving from 8 something ;/
[12:27] <BluesKaj> ight click on the desktop , choose leave
[12:27] <viteac> its same man
[12:28] <BluesKaj> then choose logout , once on the logout page choose the red leave button down in the right hand corner
[12:29] <naughx> It's in french, but I've it. http://imgur.com/1xJwNba
[12:29] <BluesKaj> you obviously logged in and out previously
[12:29] <BluesKaj> viteac,^
[12:29] <viteac> there is no other option, even in login out menu where is counting to... , or even same when I want to log in just lock and logout
[12:30] <viteac> certaintly when want to reboot or shut the comp I need go to console ;/
[12:30] <BluesKaj> topen a terminal , sudo halt
[12:31] <viteac> I know how to do it BluesKaj
[12:31] <BluesKaj> or reboot
[12:31] <BluesKaj> have you updated/upgraded lately , viteac?
[12:32] <viteac> It doesnt bother me, I'm using nix since 1th versions ;-), but I'm not only one using PC at home
[12:32] <viteac> my wife use it, and 2kids :-)
[12:32] <viteac> I dont want them scary them with black screens ;-)
[12:32] <BluesKaj> then put windows on the pc for them
[12:33] <viteac> No windows in mine home
[12:33] <BluesKaj> then teach your family that black scrns aren't scary
[12:34] <naughx> @BluesKaj, BSOD are more. >.>
[12:34] <viteac> BluesKaj: egh BluesKaj not so easy always, but this silly chat doesnt solve mine problem actually.
[12:35] <viteac> not everybody likes this wau communicating with computer.
[12:35] <BluesKaj> I asked you before if you updated and upgraded lately , viteac
[12:37] <viteac> BluesKaj: to be honest is crashing while updating, first wanted to do installation of Mozilla and adds ons for mozi, und I was curious with Mozilla firefox Installer from Kmenu, and that things stopped while: WAITING  with installation.
[12:38] <naughx> It's should've worked...
[12:38] <naughx> it*
[12:38] <viteac> killed it, and wanted check UPDATES, for sake there were some (althought I checked updates while installing the system).
[12:38] <BluesKaj> just run an update then , and try the FF installer again
[12:38] <ikonia> why not just use firefox.....from the ubuntu repos
[12:39] <naughx> sudo apt-get install firefox
[12:39] <viteac> if there is no solution for this yeah I'm going to do it.
[12:39] <ikonia> viteac: why not just do it as it's supported software
[12:39] <viteac> ikonia: I was just curious with this new wizard.
[12:39] <naughx> Muon package manager?
[12:39] <ikonia> sorry, that seems crazy
[12:39] <viteac> and unluckyli it was not working.
[12:40] <ikonia> you just said other people use the PC - yet your messing around unkwno software
[12:40] <viteac> ikonia: it's just a PC :/
[12:41] <viteac> that's my job anyway
[12:41] <BluesKaj> the FF installer used to be default , dunno if it still is , haven't done a clean install since 12.04
[12:41] <viteac> If you have backup, many disc you can mess with you PC it doesn't bite you.
[12:41] <ikonia> viteac: yes, but your argument was that other people use the PC
[12:42] <BluesKaj> due to the ubiquity HW recognition problem that the devs can't seem to solve
[12:42] <viteac> yeah, and I want to have friendly PC at home, so I don't want to teach a wife line commands if she doesn't want.
[12:42] <ikonia> so don't put unknown software on it
[12:43] <ikonia> keep it stable and use trusted software
[12:43] <viteac> why?
[12:43] <viteac> that's is not problem.
[12:43] <ikonia> because it breaks like this and then isn't a friendly computer
[12:43] <ikonia> oh, you seem to be asking how to fix a problem, suggesting it's a problem you can't fix
[12:43] <ikonia> that struck me as a problem
[12:43] <viteac> no you're wrong.
[12:44] <viteac> Just came to ask if you meet the problem.
[12:44] <ikonia> carry on then, it's clear you don't need help
[12:44] <BluesKaj> there's no leave option in the shutdown dialog , ikonia
[12:44] <viteac> Just wanted solve it without rebooting the window manager.
[12:45] <ikonia> BluesKaj: yes, but he doesn't need help,
[12:45] <ikonia> BluesKaj: he's just said.
[12:45] <ikonia> BluesKaj: to me that seems like a pretty big problem for other users if there are no buttons
[12:45] <ikonia> but I'm wrong
[12:46] <viteac> oh ikonia go take some air because your'e brain is crashing.
[12:46] <ikonia> I assure you it's not
[12:46] <BluesKaj> viteac, reboot your pc , see if the shutdown button is back
[12:47] <viteac> BluesKaj: funny because done it already and there're not.
[12:47] <viteac> Ok, I go away, having fun what went wrong ;-)
[12:48] <BluesKaj> the shut it off completely and boot up again :)
[12:48] <BluesKaj> then
[12:49] <BluesKaj> ahh ppl with attitude become trolls so quickly :)
[12:50] <viteac> yeah, I check logs yet and try another account however I were not doing anything with Icons, or rights. The first thing I were doing was updates and installing mozilla when had have reset PC after installing os.
[12:50] <naughx> Back:)
[12:55] <BluesKaj> interesting that some users think of the command line as unfriendly
[12:57] <BluesKaj> it's the opposite in fact ...fewer processes required to achieve an action
[12:57] <Tm_T> BluesKaj: if there's gui method to do things and the user is more familiar with the gui, I'd recommend instructing them with the gui tools
[13:00] <BluesKaj> yes at first the gui is the method to use , but after one becomes familiar with the OS, it's time for a new phase and IMO learning some terminal commands is the next step
[13:02] <Tm_T> BluesKaj: support channel's role isn't force that step though IMO, maybe we should continue on -offtopic from this?
[13:04] <BluesKaj> Tm_T, no need , I've already said my piece.
[13:27] <home> hi
[13:27] <home> are somthing here?
[13:28] <NanduX> We is h3r3
[13:28] <smartboyhw> home, yes we ARE here
[13:33] <lordievader> Hello
[15:09] <cantinstallgrub> Resending the question I sent last night: Hello. My Kubuntu installation fails in the end because it cannot install the grub-efi package successfully. I'm trying to recover it manually, following this page: http://superuser.com/questions/376470/how-to-reinstall-grub2-efi, but it doesn't work either, I get errors when trying to reinstall it. I'm trying to install it in the Asus UX31A (Zenbook Prime). Is this a known problem? What should I do?
[15:16] <viteac> hi
[15:17] <viteac> BluesKaj: with mine previous problem it must be something with updates when installing.
[15:38] <IdleOne> on 13.04 I have had kscreen being held back for over a month. Could someone tell me why this package is being held back?
[15:45] <BluesKaj> IdleOne, have you updated your kde version ?
[15:46] <IdleOne> BluesKaj: I run the updates regularly, but I haven't gone outside the regular repos.
[15:46] <IdleOne> so no PPA's
[15:47] <BluesKaj> IdleOne, got the backports enabled ?
[15:52] <IdleOne> sorry, had to step away a moment. let me check the backports
[15:53] <IdleOne> BluesKaj: nope, backports are not enabled
[15:55] <NalakaHewa_> Hi, does kubuntu have mysql server by default or do I have to install it?
[15:58] <BluesKaj> IdleOne, well , if your interested in the latest KDE version run a dist-upgrade
[15:59] <IdleOne> BluesKaj: I have, but kscreen is still held back
[15:59] <BluesKaj> IdleOne, odd , I haven't noticed that on 13.04 , I'll have to check . I'm on 13.10 atm
[16:00] <BluesKaj> BBL
[16:00] <IdleOne> it doesn't seem to be affecting my install it just a little annoying to me to see that 1 package not updating :)
[16:00] <IdleOne> later
[18:16] <lordievader> Good evening.
[18:17] <moriger> Good evening :0
[18:17] <moriger> :)
[18:17] <lordievader> Hey moriger, how are you?
[18:18] <moriger> Well and well. How fares the Force?
[18:18] <lordievader> Quite dark ;)
[18:22] <moriger> wel,l at least you will not be sunburned!
[18:36] <viteac> hi
[19:13] <bopper_> hello all
[19:27] <stalkerg> hello all
[19:28] <lordievader> Hey stalkerg
[19:30] <stalkerg> if I develop program and public under GPL, but this program for work need include freeware and link binary lib, I violate the GPL?
[21:01] <BluesKaj> IdleOne, muon upgraded kscreen just fine ...bit of a mystery there , maybe muon looks at the repos with dpkg instead of apt.
[21:02] <BluesKaj> dpkg first that is
[22:15] <Kuuga-RX> Sounds pretty fair.


[00:19] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project disco_stable_akonadi-calendar build #42: STILL FAILING in 20 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/disco_stable_akonadi-calendar/42/
[00:45] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project disco_stable_kdepim-addons build #42: STILL UNSTABLE in 25 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/disco_stable_kdepim-addons/42/
[01:07] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project disco_stable_mailcommon build #33: STILL FAILING in 21 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/disco_stable_mailcommon/33/
[01:34] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project disco_stable_messagelib build #42: STILL FAILING in 27 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/disco_stable_messagelib/42/
[06:52] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project disco_stable_libgravatar build #39: STILL FAILING in 5 hr 17 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/disco_stable_libgravatar/39/
[07:23] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project disco_stable_kcontacts build #29: STILL FAILING in 30 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/disco_stable_kcontacts/29/
[07:53] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Starting build #245 for job mgmt_pause_integration (previous build: ABORTED)
[07:53] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project disco_stable_akonadi build #40: STILL FAILING in 1 hr 1 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/disco_stable_akonadi/40/
[08:46] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project mgmt_docker » linode-01 build #2913: SUCCESS in 1 min 6 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/mgmt_docker/label=linode-01/2913/
[08:46] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project mgmt_docker » master build #2913: SUCCESS in 1 min 55 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/mgmt_docker/label=master/2913/
[08:49] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project mgmt_docker » swy-01 build #2913: SUCCESS in 4 min 15 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/mgmt_docker/label=swy-01/2913/
[10:08] <BluesKaj> 'Morning folks
[14:45] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project mgmt_docker » linode-01 build #2914: SUCCESS in 49 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/mgmt_docker/label=linode-01/2914/
[14:46] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project mgmt_docker » master build #2914: SUCCESS in 1 min 27 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/mgmt_docker/label=master/2914/
[14:49] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project mgmt_docker » swy-01 build #2914: SUCCESS in 4 min 19 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/mgmt_docker/label=swy-01/2914/
[17:26] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project mgmt_pause_integration build #245: ABORTED in 9 hr 33 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/mgmt_pause_integration/245/
[18:08]  * mamarley upgraded to Eoan. xD
[20:35] <valorie> mamarley: i imagine that upgrade isn't very big yet
[20:38] <valorie> I guess this cycle we should seriously consider whether or not to change from ubiquity to cala
[20:38] <valorie> tsimonq2, wxl -- how well is calamares working for you?
[20:39] <valorie> would you advise us to make the change?
[20:39] <wxl> pretty darn fantastic over all
[20:39] <valorie> how many issues did you have getting it working?
[20:39] <valorie> does it do OEM well now?
[20:40] <wxl> one thing we're lacking is a good minimal install option or oem install.. and there's probably some really bizarre partition schemes it doesn't yet support (zfs)
[20:40] <valorie> in my install testing, 100% of the bugs I filed were against ubiquity
[20:40] <wxl> i think we'll tackle the minimal/oem bits relatively early this cycle
[20:40] <wxl> most importantly i would say that it's really easy to understand calamares
[20:40] <valorie> so if you were us, would you advise making the switch?
[20:40] <wxl> i didn't have to pick through the code and try to figure it out.. it just made sense
[20:40] <wxl> i jumped right in and was tweaking things to our needs without having to beg people for help
[20:41] <wxl> upstream is easy to get a hold of and rather attentive
[20:41] <valorie> ade is a completely cool guy
[20:41] <wxl> there are some characters upstream (aren't there always?) but the head of the project is a gem
[20:41] <wxl> ^^ that's ade
[20:41] <valorie> yep
[20:41] <wxl> he's super duper helpful
[20:41] <valorie> he is
[20:41] <wxl> they're extremely reponsive, i find, to bugs
[20:42] <wxl> and that's my biggest gripe about ubiquity: it was near impossible to get help unless it affected the whole entire world and even then it wasn't necessarily easy. that and the code is a freaking nightmare
[20:42] <valorie> I hear the neon team talk about OEM and that that was high on the cala job list
[20:42] <wxl> it is. and i think tsimonq2 has some ideas to resolve that himself
[20:43] <valorie> he's probably in school now
[20:43] <wxl> i think he's got telegram nanodrones in his bloodstream thta are bridged to irc
[20:46] <valorie> nevertheless paying attention in class is something I recommend
[20:46] <valorie> lol
[20:46] <valorie> oh, laundry
[20:46] <valorie> bbiab
[20:54] <wxl> valorie: how's the wayland session?
[20:59] <valorie> hmmm, I've not tried it
[20:59] <valorie> and I could, on the travel lappy
[20:59] <valorie> will do so at LFNW!
[22:50] <valorie> I got a good question in #kubuntu -- why is the default in Konversation to use a different browser than KDE-set browser?
[22:50] <valorie> and do we set that
[22:50] <wxl> not knowing the answer, i bet you it keeps its own default
[22:50] <wxl> like thunderbird does
[22:50] <wxl> you can set default browsers every which way known to man, and thunderbird can still make up its own mind
[22:51] <wxl> is this a new setting?
[22:51] <wxl> s/setting/behavior?
[22:52] <valorie> I don't think so
[22:52] <mamarley> valorie: Indeed, not huge.
[22:52] <valorie> but that doesn't mean we didn't change it in our packaging long time ago
[22:54] <wxl> ugh i don't know how i managed to do this but the kubuntu iso i have is.... a lubuntu one. gimme a sec to zsync and i'll look
[22:54] <valorie> lol
[22:55] <valorie> good file naming!
[22:55] <wxl> hey, they're both "cute" :)
[22:55] <wxl> well to be fair whta i have in there is a daily and all the dailies are named the same
[22:57] <valorie> ah
[22:59] <wxl> in other news, chrom* sucks
[22:59] <wxl> it can't make itself default browser if you're in an environment where the $BROWSER variable is set
[22:59]  * wxl rolls his eyes so far in the back of his head they end up on the other side of the globe
[23:05] <valorie> that's a nice look for ya
[23:05] <valorie> <3
[23:14] <wxl> valorie: at least in dingo under configure » behavior » general behavior there's a "use custom web browser" option though at least in live it defaults to unchecked
[23:15] <valorie> I upgraded and haven't use FF for over a year I think
[23:16] <wxl> if you check it, it defaults to using firefox
[23:16] <valorie> right, but that's the default Kubuntu browser and the only one on the ISO
[23:17] <valorie> however, it seems setting another browser to be the default doesn't change Konversation's setting
[23:17] <wxl> hm let me play
[23:18] <valorie> which seems counterintuitive
[23:32] <wxl> hm
[23:32] <wxl> can't make falkon default within it eh?
[23:35] <valorie> we discussed doing so but the concensus seemed to be "not yet"
[23:35] <valorie> we can talk about that again
[23:35] <valorie> and naturally this is the time to do it
[23:36] <valorie> falkon will have (hopefully) a or some GSoC students so it is an active project
[23:36] <valorie> getting plugins is important
[23:37] <wxl> hm don't even see anything in bugzilla about it
[23:37] <wxl> https://bugs.kde.org/buglist.cgi?bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=CONFIRMED&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&f0=OP&f1=OP&f2=product&f3=component&f4=alias&f5=short_desc&f7=content&f8=CP&f9=CP&j1=OR&o2=substring&o3=substring&o4=substring&o5=substring&o6=substring&o7=matches&product=Falkon&query_format=advanced&short_desc=default&short_desc_type=allwordssubstr&v2=default&v3=default&v4=default&v5=de
[23:37] <wxl> fault&v6=default&v7=%22default%22
[23:38] <wxl> sheesh
[23:39] <wxl> well i don't want to use chrom* cuz its weird
[23:39] <wxl> i'll grab opera
[23:39] <wxl> afaik those are the only ones that have in-browser ways to change the default
[23:39] <wxl> not even midori
[23:42] <wxl> ok well can't confirm
[23:43] <wxl> i installed opera, set it as default, opened konversation, typed out a link, clicked on it, it opened in opera
[23:43] <wxl> xdg settings are all appropriately pointing at opera
[23:43] <wxl> BROWSER isn't set
[23:47] <valorie> interesting
[23:48] <wxl> i'm trying to force falkon as default browser and it's getting me mad :)
[23:57] <wxl> it seems that you HAvE to use "default applications" (and not just `xdg-settings set default-web-browser`) to get things to work. it appears to change ~/{.kde/share/.config,.config}/kdeglobals as well as ~/.config/mimeapps.list, which is to be expected
[23:58] <wxl> having changed that, clicking on a link in konversation opens it in falkon
[23:58] <valorie> in systemsettings, I don't even see a way to set a default browser
[23:58] <valorie> I know that FF is always trying to make me choose it
[23:58] <wxl> i just searched for "default applications"
[23:59] <valorie> and does chrome in a less nasty way
[23:59] <valorie> chromium doesn't bug me
[23:59]  * wxl turns up his nose
[23:59] <valorie> I think I set falkon as default in falkon itself
[23:59] <wxl> i couldn't find a way


[00:03] <\sh> oh guys...
[00:04] <\sh> doko: any clue how to solve this issue...hardy kernels were build with gcc 4.2.3, while gcc 4.2.4 was uploaded to proposed and then moved to -updates...it's strange to see warning messages from vmware-server e.g.
[00:06] <directhex> warnings or actual problems?
[00:07] <\sh> directhex: hopefully only warnings...I'll see this night, if the modules of vmware-server (1) compiled with 4.2.4 and kernel compiled with 4.2.3 are throwing real problems
[00:09] <NickyMC> Yo, yo.
[00:09] <NickyMC> What's going on?
[00:09] <StevenK> UDS
[00:09] <NickyMC> Anyone free to answer a question for me in here?
[00:29] <tjaalton> doko: bingo. I found out that building on x86 with the same options failed, so I tried adding the missing options to the lpia build, and adding -D_BSD_SOURCE made it work
[00:30] <doko> tjaalton: nice, some cause on armel?
[00:30] <tjaalton> doko: I'll check, but most likely yes
[00:37] <tjaalton> doko: oh well, obviously can't run an armel chroot on x86 :)
[00:37] <StevenK> tjaalton: qemu
[00:37] <tjaalton> StevenK: hmm ok
[00:37] <tjaalton> StevenK: it emulates armel too?
[00:38] <StevenK> tjaalton: It ought to, but I have an armel board
[00:39] <tjaalton> StevenK: you've got jaunty on one?
[00:39]  * StevenK does
[00:39]  * StevenK is using it to track down an ICE for doko
[00:40] <tjaalton> StevenK: ok, could you try compiling this file then? I can pastebin the command
[00:41] <StevenK> tjaalton: And where is the file?
[00:42] <tjaalton> StevenK: grab mesa source, cd src/mesa and then run http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/83774/
[00:43] <tjaalton> it's 42MB unpacked..
[00:50] <StevenK> tjaalton: Bleh!
[00:51] <tjaalton> StevenK: :)
[00:51] <StevenK> Like my armel has that much space anyway
[00:51] <tjaalton> ok, let me try first to compile just that file
[00:53] <StevenK> tjaalton: Trying now
[00:54] <tjaalton> StevenK: the includes are problematic, can't just rip that file out
[00:55] <StevenK> tjaalton: What you said in the pastebin is correct
[00:55] <ogra_> StevenK, you didnt get an 8G SDHC at fry's ?
[00:55] <ogra_> we all did ...
[00:55] <tjaalton> StevenK: so adding -D_BSD_SOURCE did it? nice, thanks for testing!
[00:56] <tjaalton> doko: ^^
[00:56] <StevenK> tjaalton: No problem
[00:56] <tjaalton> ogra_: whaa, they gave those?
[00:56] <ogra_> tjaalton, nah, they sold them for $24.95
[00:56] <tjaalton> ogra_: heh, ok.. :)
[00:57] <ogra_> SDHC micro with mini and std adapter
[01:17] <lifeless> fta: reed and asac want you badly outside 1500
[02:51] <sladen> ah, since all you people are in the Google Campus, perhaps you could tell them that they  http://www.google.com/copyright?hl=en  link they publish at the bottom of AFP articles is broken
[03:29] <emgent> bug #44194
[06:09] <kees> slangasek: woo! yeah, NEW queue bloated nicely.  :)
[06:10] <ScottK-laptop> ftp-masters had a busy weekend.
[06:12] <ScottK-laptop> kees: clamav did the change to allow us to re-enable modules after we patch them for their next release.  It looks simple enough I think we might consider backporting it. http://paste.ubuntu.com/83722/
[06:16] <ScottK-laptop> It's late enough here.  I'm off to bed.  Good night all.
[06:16] <StevenK> Night
[06:24] <mnabil> guys, i'm building a live cd and i just wanna set the default kernel for the live cd to be linux-rt but every time the iso boots it drops to initramfs shell , any idea ?
[06:25] <StevenK> That the squashfs doesn't include the modules for -rt, or you didn't regenerate the initrd?
[06:29] <YokoZar1> the new transparent ubuntu stickers fit great on the U key by the way
[06:29] <mnabil> StevenK, i'm doing debootstrap then i chroot then apt-get install linux-rt
[06:29] <mnabil> StevenK, the squashfs module is in the kernel
[06:30] <Mithrandir> mnabil: look at casper.log in /, perhaps?
[06:30] <Mithrandir> hm, in /var/log, I think
[06:33] <mnabil> Mithrandir, casper.log says : mount: mounting aufs on /root failed : no such device
[06:33] <mnabil> mount aufs failed
[06:43] <kees> ScottK-laptop: cool!
[07:15] <Keybuk> that hot tub is so chlorinated, I think I have second degree burns
[07:36] <YokoZar> chemical burns are the best
[07:39] <mnabil> i regenrate the initrd again , and made a new iso !! still the same problem ! any idea
[07:39] <mnabil> or ref. or any thing
[12:11] <hughsie> ayone seen glatzor?
[12:53] <phix> hughsie: I could tell you where he's not
[12:54] <hughsie> phix: :-) thanks!
[12:55] <phix> you know, to narrow down your search :P
[15:15] <joaopinto> NCommander, not sure this should be included on the specification (Backports Selective Installation), but it wold also make sense to add support on apturl, so you could provide something like apt://name;rep=backports
[16:45] <yao_ziyuan> one of the few things i think fedora does well in is
[16:45] <yao_ziyuan> it uses WenQuanYiHei as the default font for large-size chinese characters
[16:45] <yao_ziyuan> can ubuntu do that?
[18:29] <tjaalton> doko: so, should I fix the mesa build issue in the mesa package?
[18:30] <doko> tjaalton: please do so!
[18:31] <tjaalton> doko: ok, will do
[19:02] <Riddell> tkamppeter: your session needs you
[19:59] <slytherin> can some archive admin please add libjaxp1.2-java to sync blacklist and remove the source from jaunty queue? Please refer bug #251973
[20:07] <lifeless> tjaalton: There is another session on at the moment - https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ubuntu-hotkey-madness - that apparently you would be very relevant to
[20:07] <lifeless> tjaalton: bryce says that if it is possible for you to come - to apollinaris - it would be great
[20:08] <tjaalton> uhh, ok :)
[20:13] <lifeless> pitti: did I get the message right about hal - 'hal -> devicekit, rm hal' (over some arbitrary time period)
[20:44] <radix> Hobbsee: sorry about the wrong subscription. I had a brainfart. :(
[20:45] <radix> and thanks for fixing the subscription.
[20:45] <Hobbsee> radix: no great problem.  You're only the billionth one to do it :P
[20:46] <radix> there should be a "find sponsorship" button in launchpad :)
[20:55] <ScottK-laptop> radix: "Canonical wants to offer a new feature" isn't a particularly strong SRU justification, I don't think.
[20:55] <ScottK-laptop> FYI.
[20:55] <slytherin> Hobbsee: can you please add libjaxp1.2-java to sync blacklist and reject source from jaunty queue?
[20:56] <Hobbsee> slytherin: i'll do the latter, i can't do the former.
[20:57] <slytherin> Hobbsee: then who can do the former?
[20:57] <Hobbsee> slytherin: an archive admin who is a canonical employee.
[20:58] <Hobbsee> source is already rejected, it seems.
[20:59]  * Hobbsee wonders why that isn't kept in bzr somewhere, like ~ubuntu-archive
[20:59] <Hobbsee> slangasek: any particular reason for this?
[20:59] <slytherin> Hobbsee: Ok. I will keep a watch to see if it gets autosynced again.
[21:00] <Hobbsee> slytherin: it likely will, if it's not on the blacklist
[21:00] <Hobbsee> they tend to keep running new package autosyncs, it seems
[21:04]  * slytherin is felling sleepy, quits
[21:46] <ScottK> pitti: It looks to me like the KDE 4.1.3 updates are ready for copying to -updates.  This is convenient since 4.1.4 was tagged yesterday and it'd be nice to clear the deck for the next update.
[21:46] <ScottK> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-sru/+bugs?field.bug_reporter=jr
[22:06] <pitti> ScottK: right, I'll copy it soon; thanks all for testing
[22:06] <pitti> lifeless: right, hal -> DK plus DK-power plus DK-disks, etc.
[22:07] <ScottK> pitti: Thanks.
[22:28] <tjaalton> my mesa uploads are rejected for some reason I can't understand: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/84124/
[22:28] <tjaalton> -0ubuntu2 was accepted just fine
[22:37] <slangasek> Hobbsee: why isn't what kept in bzr somewhere?
[22:39] <Hobbsee> slangasek: afaik it is, but it's not public?  or is hidden inside canonical somewhere?
[22:39] <Hobbsee> (not in revision control)
[22:40] <slangasek> Hobbsee: what was the "what" that is or isn't?
[22:40] <slangasek> the sync blacklist?
[22:40] <Hobbsee> correct.
[22:40] <Hobbsee> oh
[22:40] <Hobbsee> sorry, i misread.
[22:40] <Hobbsee> yes, the sync blacklist.
[22:42] <slangasek> yeah, it's in bzr; but it appears to be an in-place bzr branch
[22:42] <slangasek> the answer might be "because we don't have an easy way to share it bidirectionally"
[22:45] <Hobbsee> bidirectionally?
[22:45] <Hobbsee> as in, can't be kept on lp as a branch for ~ubuntu-archive?
[23:16]  * StevenK kicks libtool for being obtuse
[23:46] <kees> infinity: PIE take 1: fail.
[23:55] <slangasek> take one pie
[23:55] <slangasek> nom nom
[23:55] <slangasek> Hobbsee: as in, I'm not sure what cocoplum can or can't access at that point, yeah
[23:56] <Hobbsee> ah, right
[23:59] <slangasek> Hobbsee: the other counterargument that comes to mind is that even if we had it in a branch on LP, that could never be the authoritative branch because that wouldn't be auto-propagated to cocoplum...?


[16:29] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- ahasenack, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4051 No packages are being considered! If you are preparing sources manually, please upload them to the PPA now
[18:52] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- ahasenack, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4051 Dependency wait (groovy/ldb). Diff missing (groovy/talloc, groovy/tdb, groovy/tevent). Pending binary packages (groovy/sssd)
[19:12] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- ahasenack, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4051 Dependency wait (groovy/ldb). Diff missing (groovy/sssd, groovy/talloc, groovy/tdb). Pending binary packages (groovy/tevent)
[19:32] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- ahasenack, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4051 Dependency wait (groovy/ldb). Diff missing (groovy/sssd, groovy/talloc, groovy/tdb, groovy/tevent)


[07:58] <jam> seems quiet... too quiet
[07:59] <niemeyer> Must be because everyone is isolated in their homes..
[07:59] <niemeyer> Wait..
[07:59] <niemeyer> ;)
[07:59] <niemeyer> Morning
[07:59] <jam> morning
[08:00] <mup_> PR operator#226 opened: ops/framework.py: StoredStateChanged includes the attribute <Created by jameinel> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/226>
[08:02] <niemeyer> jam: I wonder if we should do that ^ or if we should hide the event altogether
[08:03] <niemeyer> jam: This was part of the original implementation.. back then everything would fire changed
[08:03] <niemeyer> jam: Then we moved to only snapshoting once for performance
[08:04] <jam> niemeyer, I could see going either way. We've generally thought that _stored should be private, which means you shouldn't be listening for changes on it.
[08:04] <jam> if we are going to have changes, then they should be useful
[08:04] <jam> and right now it only emits if the top level attribute changes
[08:04] <jam> so either remove it entirely, or make it correct.
[08:04] <jam> the above makes it correct, but if we want to say 'don't do it' then we can do that easily enough. :)
[08:04] <niemeyer> jam: Agreed
[08:05] <niemeyer> jam: Is that attribute only the tip if there are multiple nested dicts?
[08:09] <jam> niemeyer, so I considered a couple different things, but went with top level attribute to start
[08:09] <jam> otherwise you end up with some sort of path, which might include lists, dicts, etc.
[08:09] <jam> and the attribute of the dict might be a string or an int or
[08:10] <niemeyer> jam: Agreed.. we'd have to build some sort of dotted notation
[08:10] <niemeyer> foo[3].bar
[08:10] <jam> yeah.
[08:10] <jam> I didn't want to deal with paths yet, when the top level attribute is at least a good enough hint.
[08:10] <niemeyer> I suggest just killing it for now, making it private if we still require it for the internal implementation to some  degree
[08:11] <niemeyer> We can ask to see what's the use case before we axe it
[08:11] <niemeyer> Gut feeling is that this shouldn't be important, and might even lead to brittle code as this isn't precise enough
[08:19] <jam> niemeyer, just ripping out the code no tests fail...
[08:19] <niemeyer> +1 to that
[08:19] <niemeyer> I'll copy & paste this conversation into the issue
[08:21] <Chipaca> mo'in all!
[08:22] <jam> morning Chipaca
[08:23] <mup_> PR operator#227 opened: ops/framework.py: remove StoredStateChanged <Created by jameinel> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/227>
[08:23] <jam> team policy decision on issue #225, do we fix it (PR #226) or get rid of it (PR #227)
[08:23] <mup_> Issue #225: BoundSharedState changed events is misnamed (or misleading) <Created by addyess> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/issues/225>
[08:23] <mup_> PR #226: ops/framework.py: StoredStateChanged includes the attribute <Created by jameinel> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/226>
[08:23] <mup_> PR #227: ops/framework.py: remove StoredStateChanged <Created by jameinel> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/227>
[08:25] <niemeyer> jam: Given that theory, couldn't we get rid of all the sub-type magic we have there?
[08:25] <niemeyer> jam: I mean, we introduced these StoredLists, etc, precisely to be able to handle the subevents
[08:25] <jam> niemeyer, we still need dirty
[08:25] <niemeyer> Ah, indeed
[08:25] <niemeyer> Otherwise we'll always snapshot, okay
[08:28] <niemeyer> jam: Here is my vote: https://github.com/canonical/operator/issues/225#issuecomment-614496681
[08:28] <jam> thx
[10:00]  * Chipaca runs tests → wonders about coverage → looks into coverage → weeps → drags self back to work at hand → runs tests
[10:02] <Chipaca> to be fair, it's just main.py that has dreadful coverage, the others aren't too bad
[10:02] <Chipaca> but i was working on main.py
[10:03] <niemeyer> I don't think the coverage tests will handle that one correctly
[10:04] <niemeyer> By definition the best testing for it needs to fire it externally
[10:04] <niemeyer> That external process won't be accounted for coverage
[10:12] <Chipaca> yes, and things like _get_charm_dir should be covered by unit tests
[10:13] <Chipaca> it has two branches, one of them simple, one of them suspicious
[10:13] <Chipaca> i replaced the suspicious one with "raise RuntimeError" and everything was happy
[10:15] <Chipaca> i mean, main.py's main, sure, hard to unit-test, no problem. but that file is almost all helpers, almost all uncovered (without looking beyond the 20% coverage it has)
[10:15] <Chipaca> ANYhow
[10:16]  * Chipaca drags self back to work at hand again
[10:21] <mup_> Issue operator#228 opened: Adopt a standard and well integrated templating module <Created by niemeyer> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/issues/228>
[10:32] <mup_> Issue operator#229 opened: The pod spec API must be improved <Created by niemeyer> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/issues/229>
[10:37] <mup_> Issue operator#113 closed: Charms as YAML <question> <Created by knkski> <Closed by niemeyer> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/issues/113>
[10:39] <niemeyer> Chipaca: If you raise an exception and it does nothing, that's obviously uncovered.. but the "20%" number means nothing if our tests are exercising logic in this file via an independent process
[10:39] <niemeyer> Which I think they are
[10:40] <niemeyer> Sorry if that was clear before and I'm just repeating myself.. it just felt like a coverage number was still being taken as correct
[10:42] <niemeyer> We have that charms/test_main charm that is trying to make the check as realistic as reasonable.. when we do that externally, none of the lines touched by the test will get into the report
[10:42] <Chipaca> I'll look into this after
[10:56]  * Chipaca steps out for a bit
[11:01] <niemeyer> Lunch
[11:09] <facubatista> Muy buenos días a todos!
[11:28] <facubatista> jam, if you can land #227, that means #226 could be just closed, right?
[11:28] <mup_> PR #227: ops/framework.py: remove StoredStateChanged <Created by jameinel> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/227>
[11:28] <mup_> PR #226: ops/framework.py: StoredStateChanged includes the attribute <Created by jameinel> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/226>
[11:29] <jam> If we decide to do 227 then it replaces 226, correct
[11:31] <mup_> PR operator#227 closed: ops/framework.py: remove StoredStateChanged <Created by jameinel> <Merged by jameinel> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/227>
[11:32] <mup_> PR operator#226 closed: ops/framework.py: StoredStateChanged includes the attribute <Created by jameinel> <Closed by jameinel> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/226>
[11:41] <mup_> Issue operator#225 closed: BoundSharedState changed events is misnamed (or misleading) <Created by addyess> <Closed by addyess> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/issues/225>
[11:51] <mup_> PR operator#230 opened: Testing harness no events for own data <Created by jameinel> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/230>
[13:00] <Chipaca> facubatista: buen día señor!
[13:15] <facubatista> hola Chipaca
[13:50] <jam>  Chipaca I'm assuming its ok if I miss the framework sync (in 45 min). or would you like me to be there?
[13:50] <Chipaca> jam: indeed
[13:51] <Chipaca> jam: if they wanted you in it it'd be at a reasonable time for you :-)
[14:32]  * facubatista had(has) a car issue but is back
[14:36] <niemeyer> Ouch :(
[14:56] <Chipaca> brb, reboot
[15:08] <Chipaca> wooo! hello from my zippy laptop again!
[15:08] <Chipaca> looking frankenstein-y right now so requires another reboot, and here's hoping it's still zippy after that
[15:08]  * Chipaca brb rebooting again
[15:26] <facubatista> Chipaca, how did you fix it?
[15:27] <Chipaca> I don't think it's fixed, but it works for now
[15:27] <facubatista> Chipaca, just improved suddenly or you did something?
[15:27] <Chipaca> facubatista: unplugged the battery
[15:27] <Chipaca> and turned it on from just ac
[15:28] <Chipaca> then power it off again, plug the battery back in
[15:28] <Chipaca> getting at the battery is ~20 screws but hey, it worked
[15:28] <Chipaca> facubatista: but i'm not going to do this every 20 days :-( so it's not "fixed", but i might do this every 20 days until the Q is over
[15:29] <facubatista> Chipaca, if it serves of consolation, battery is also involved in my issue :p
[15:29] <Chipaca> facubatista: hehe
[15:29] <Chipaca> facubatista: batteries are the worst, except for not having batteries
[15:31] <facubatista> wife took the car and went to the greengrocer's, got back, parked outside to clean some leaves from the garage, and then the car just didn't start anymore
[15:31] <niemeyer> GOod place to get stuck
[15:31] <facubatista> lucky us that it didn't die at the greengrocer's (which is ~10 blocks away, not much, but would complicate a lot the operational part of waiting some service or replacement)
[15:32] <facubatista> niemeyer, exactly
[15:32] <facubatista> of course, I can not just go and by a new battery, this kind of shop is closed
[15:33] <Chipaca> facubatista: something something condensation
[15:34] <facubatista> Chipaca, what?
[15:36] <Chipaca> facubatista: sorry, that was a bit obscure of me. A few years ago somebody asked in a forum somewhere, something like (from memory), "dear $forum, I don't know what to do! I nipped out to the grocer's this morning and came back, and then when I went to go to work my car didn't start, so I came back into the house and my partner was in bed with another person!" and they answered "probably condensation in your $engine_part, try blowing it dry"
[15:37] <facubatista> jejej
[15:37] <Chipaca> and the discussion was about how doing the short prior trip lead to the condensation
[17:06]  * Chipaca steps away for a break before the last meeting of the day
[17:26] <facubatista> niemeyer, https://www.pagina12.com.ar/259910-las-claves-del-modelo-portugues-frente-al-coronavirus
[17:31] <niemeyer> Yeah, the story is pretty good so far.. now to see how the second half of the story goes
[17:32] <niemeyer> It's not true that under 15 haven't returned to school, btw... at least not universally true.. our son has been doing doing remote schooling for a couple of weeks now
[17:34] <niemeyer> This week they started doing video calls with the whole class
[17:38]  * facubatista -> car support
[17:38] <facubatista> niemeyer, my kids are also with virtual classrooms and group video calls
[18:04] <mup_> Issue operator#231 opened: Harness: Has errors on charms which define action handlers <Created by Vultaire> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/issues/231>
[18:17]  * facubatista is back
[18:18] <facubatista> new battery, ~USD 120
[18:41] <Chipaca> brb, rebooting
[18:54] <mup_> PR operator#232 opened: ops.testing.Harness actions metadata support.  (#231) <Created by Vultaire> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/232>
[21:10] <mup_> PR operator#233 opened: Execute the registered methods to events under PDB if proper envvar is set <Created by facundobatista> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/233>
[21:10]  * facubatista opened ^, but we need to talk around it
[21:10] <facubatista> which will happen tomorrow
[21:10]  * facubatista eods


[02:31] <snap-l> I just sent a note to the program director of WDETHD2 to see if they'd be interested in Open Metalcast
[02:31] <snap-l> We'll see what happens.
[02:31]  * rick_h_ crosses fingers for you
[02:31] <greg-g> ditto
[02:32] <snap-l> Thanks. :)
[02:32] <snap-l> btw: folks, if you'r subscribed to the lococast user on identica, please subscribe to the group instead
[02:32] <snap-l> the user hasn't been updated in a dog's age.
[02:33] <snap-l> Changed the lococast page to point to the group instead
[02:34] <snap-l> tx, greg-g :)
[02:35] <greg-g> ;)
[02:44] <snap-l> I love it when someone says that they don't quite get identi.ca or microblogging
[02:44] <snap-l> three things they've subscribed to: joindiaspora, doctorow, and one other person
[02:44] <snap-l> of course you're not going to get it. :)
[02:52] <rick_h_> http://www.arpitonline.com/blog/2011/03/14/thoughts-on-an-open-twitter-replacement-concentrate-on-whats-done-poorly/
[02:55] <snap-l> #3 is partially done with Status.net
[02:55] <snap-l> user discovery is still a blackart with federated sites
[02:55] <snap-l> much like discovering e-mail
[02:56] <snap-l> and routing all messages to your inbox: it's your funeral. :)
[11:44] <wolfger> Morning.
[12:11] <brousch> correct
[12:15] <tjagoda> AFTERNOON
[12:17] <brousch> incorrect
[12:24] <wolfger> premature
[12:24] <wolfger> or, possibly, geographically removed.
[12:24] <wolfger> I mean, it *is* afternoon somewhere...
[12:27] <greg-g> g'morn
[12:28] <wolfger> depending on what the g stands for
[13:09] <wolfger> Oh boy... RMS is at it again.
[13:09] <binbrain> dude, I just going to say that, LOL, RMS ranting about cell phones
[13:13] <brousch> omg did you see the latest rms rant?
[13:14] <greg-g> link?
[13:14] <brousch> it's all over the webz!
[13:15] <brousch> http://www.networkworld.com/news/2011/031411-richard-stallman.html?hpg1=bn
[13:15] <tjagoda> I never knew about task
[13:15] <tjagoda> the console based to-do manager
[13:16] <snap-l> tjagoda: I tried task. It's a little limited for my tastes
[13:17] <tjagoda> http://taskwarrior.org/projects/show/taskwarrior/
[13:17] <tjagoda> It appears to be under active dev
[13:17] <binbrain> haha, the interview of RMS was done on cell phone, but he had to borrow 1
[13:17] <binbrain> I hope he didn't stay on long enough for big brother to track him down
[13:18] <snap-l> He makes some valid points, though
[13:19] <snap-l> You can't really develop for your phone without getting a special developer phone
[13:19] <snap-l> and if you want to hack on Google's tools, you can't.
[13:20] <snap-l> Stallman does his computing on a Lemote Yeeloong laptop running gNewSense, a GNU/Linux distribution composed only of free software.
[13:20] <snap-l> "There are some things I can't do. I'm using a rather slow computer because it's the only laptop with a free BIOS," Stallman says. gNewSense is the only totally free distribution that will run on the Lemote, which has a MIPS-like processor, he says. The Lemote had come with another GNU/Linux distribution that included non-free software, and Stallman replaced it with gNewSense.
[13:21] <snap-l> Before agreeing to an interview with Network World, Stallman demanded that this article use his preferred terminology -- e.g. "free software" instead of "open source" and "GNU/Linux" instead of just "Linux." He also requested that the interview be recorded and that, if the recording were distributed online, that it be done so in a format that works with free software.
[13:21] <snap-l> Gotta love RMS.
[13:22] <snap-l> I love how he's uncompromising
[13:22] <snap-l> but I wish his acolytes would choose their battles a little better.
[13:25] <snap-l> The network world intervew was very good
[13:25] <snap-l> I'm surprised. ;)
[13:26] <brousch> i'm inspired. time to switch to bsd
[13:26] <snap-l> heh
[13:26] <brousch> wait, that's too free isn't it
[13:26] <snap-l> now now
[13:27] <wolfger> then go OpenBSD instead of FreeBSD :-)
[13:28] <wolfger> RMS is a good idea gone horribly awry.
[13:28] <wolfger> There's a difference between having principles (good!) and being uncompromising (bad!).
[13:29] <snap-l> Well, RMS is a good way to calibrate those principles
[13:29] <wolfger> If you refuse to compromise, so will everybody else, and you'll never get anywhere
[13:29] <snap-l> Not necessarily
[13:29] <snap-l> He's walking proof that it can be done
[13:30] <snap-l> I don't get on a Zen monk's case for their choice to rake sand
[13:30] <snap-l> but I know that I am not about to rake sand
[13:30] <snap-l> And I can admire the Zen monk's conviction to rake said sand
[13:31] <wolfger> The difference being, the zen monk doesn't go around saying everybody should rake sand.
[13:32] <wolfger> He wants to change the world, but if the world doesn't go 100% his way... 99% is treated as bad as 0% by him.
[13:32] <wolfger> So why even bother?
[13:32] <brousch> someone has to keep us pointed in the right direction
[13:33] <snap-l> brousch: ++
[13:33] <brousch> it is good he exists and stays true to his cause
[13:33] <wolfger> It would be better if he existed and wasn't so damned inflexible.
[13:33] <brousch> even though i make fun of him
[13:34] <brousch> there are plenty of other people that are inflexible
[13:34] <wolfger> Seriously, I believe he does the cause more harm than good every time he speaks
[13:34] <brousch> a few stalwarts are good
[13:34] <snap-l> wolfger: People glom on to the headline
[13:34] <brousch> wait, i mean plenty of other people who are flexible
[13:34] <snap-l> Slashdot reports that Stalman thinks cellphones are the tools of Stalin
[13:35] <wolfger> Yeah, that's where I picked it up from
[13:35] <brousch> it might be good if he were less dramatic
[13:35] <snap-l> And that makes the whole thing sound ridiculous
[13:35] <brousch> but then no one would pay attention
[13:35] <snap-l> but if you read what he said, it's more sane and carefully thought out
[13:36] <brousch> and if he'd shower and groom himself
[13:36] <wolfger> Oh, sure, a lot (if not all) of what he says is true.
[13:36] <snap-l> See, Stallman and Palin are cut from the same cloth
[13:36] <snap-l> except Stallman makes sense, and is less easy on the eyes
[13:36] <snap-l> Palin is just batshit insane
[13:36] <wolfger> LOL
[13:36] <snap-l> and Stallman frames his interviews according to what he wants to get across
[13:38] <snap-l> I agree, though, that the 1970s activism stunts that the FSF proposes are very tone-deaf and silly
[13:38] <brousch> i always feel guilty after reading a stallman piece
[13:38] <snap-l> tying up the genius bar to have a debate on free software is counterproductive
[13:39] <snap-l> but I'd have the same problem with PETA doing the chicken dance in front of a KFC that I would have of people in radiation suits doing the DRM dance in front of the Apple store.
[13:40] <wolfger> I have more problems with PETA than FSF.
[13:40] <snap-l> bah, I forgot to type "people from PETA in chicken suits doing the chicken dance..."
[13:40] <wolfger> I at least think FSF is aruging a sound position. :-p
[13:40] <snap-l> wolfger: Totally agree.
[13:41] <wolfger>  But they are about the same level of media-whoring laughing-stock.
[13:41] <wolfger> More about making waves than making a difference.
[13:42] <binbrain> remember that crap FSF pulled a few years ago, when they mailed "proprietary software is for the devil" pamphlets to all the fortune 500 companies, WTF
[13:42] <binbrain> thinking about it makes me laugh, what did they think they would really accomplish
[13:42] <snap-l> binbrain: I have a real problem with fundamentalism, both in the church, and in the FSF
[13:43] <wolfger> Yeah, that probably set Free Software adoption back about 20 years...
[13:43] <snap-l> Framing the conversation in terms of good vs evil is counterproductive
[13:43] <wolfger> "Oh, I'm sorry... Did you want us to take you seriously?"
[13:56] <greg-g> huh, taskwarrior has some nice mutt integration thanks to nixternal http://taskwarrior.org/wiki/taskwarrior/AddOns
[14:32] <jrwren> FSF is a church.
[14:33] <snap-l> And microsoft is a megachurch. :)
[14:33] <snap-l> With guns, and hookers
[14:33] <snap-l> and blackjack
[14:38] <wolfger> FSF is Westboro...
[14:38] <greg-g> zow
[14:38] <wolfger> (or does that invoke some variant of Godwin?)
[14:38] <greg-g> yes
[14:38] <greg-g> also, I disagree
[14:39] <wolfger> I know, a bit extreme...
[14:39] <greg-g> Westboro is more the anti-mono folks
[14:39] <wolfger> they aren't nearly as bad as Westboro
[14:39] <greg-g> FSF is probably just closer to a Amish church
[14:39] <greg-g> doing without for ethical reasons
[14:39] <wolfger> Hardly anybody is as bad as Westboro
[14:39]  * greg-g nods
[14:40] <wolfger> also, sign me up for the guns, hookers, and blackjack
[14:40] <wolfger> :-)
[14:42] <wolfger> greg-g: Isn't FSF also the anti-mono folks?
[14:42] <wolfger> There's definitely some overlap there.
[14:42] <greg-g> point
[14:43] <greg-g> but I think the most vocal/craziest about it are the boycottnovell people
[14:45] <wolfger> FSF is pro-Mono but anti-writing-anything-in-C#
[14:46] <wolfger> Kinda like being pro-Colt-Revolver, but anti-bullet.
[14:48] <snap-l> FSF is anti patents, and mono could be a patent trap
[14:48] <snap-l> as could Java
[14:48] <snap-l> as could any language when you get right down to it
[14:50] <jrwren> the top of planet-commandline.org is cool right now, but I prefer du -kx | sort -nr | head :)
[14:50] <jrwren> taliban is worse than westboro
[14:51] <jrwren> mono could be a patent trap??? wtf have you been reading?!?
[14:51] <jrwren> Linux is more a patent trap than mono.  I was not thinking globally.
[14:53] <snap-l> Well, I hope they don't make me a lier
[14:54] <wolfger> and as for patent trap... FSF is convinced C# is a patent trap, or could be.  And management would rather have disposable programmers than worry about having to retain talented programmers
[14:57] <snap-l> I think rick_h_'s rant about the day coders sums up the problems of Java very well
[14:57] <wolfger> at least, management here...
[14:57] <snap-l> Java seems like the language that you leave in the office
[14:58] <rick_h_> irc lighting up, what's up?
[14:58] <rick_h_> java developers? uh oh
[14:58] <snap-l> Well, it started off as FSF stuff
[14:58] <rick_h_> wheeee
[14:58] <rick_h_> good Tues
[14:58] <snap-l> RMS discussed cell phones
[14:59] <snap-l> Scrollback will make more sense. :)
[14:59] <rick_h_> tl;dr :P
[14:59] <snap-l> I just invoked the name of rick_h_ to make a pount about day coders and Java.
[15:00] <wolfger> Yeah. He said, "Don't be a day-coder like rick_h_"
[15:00] <wolfger> :-D
[15:00] <wolfger> Or something to that effect. I may have misunderstood.
[15:01] <rick_h_> yea, good rule of thumb
[15:01] <snap-l> wolfger: Come here, and let me hug your neck while I shake it vigerously.
[15:01] <rick_h_> do opposite of what rick_h_ does
[15:03] <wolfger> I'm so glad it's lunchtime. Otherwise my cow-orkers would be giving me really strange looks right now.
[15:04] <wolfger> As I literally laugh out loud every couple seconds when I re-read the "hug your neck" comment.
[15:05] <snap-l> ;)
[15:07] <wolfger> I'm surprised tjagoda isn't weighing in with his "trolololo"
[15:11] <jrwren> C# can't be a patent trap any more than perl, python or ruby can be.
[15:11] <jrwren> the fundamentals of a programming langauge are not patentable.
[15:11] <jrwren> Grammars have been well known and understood for 60+ yrs.
[15:12] <jrwren> I've never heard boycott novell or fsf say that C# is a patent threat.
[15:12] <jrwren> ... .net libraries and mono on the other hand... they have made idiotic claims about
[15:13] <tjagoda> trololololololllllll
[15:14] <brousch> when i've seen such claims they are usually regarding the windows forms or whatever the new windows gui crap is called
[15:14] <brousch> but then mono seems to stay away from those
[15:18] <snap-l> jrwren: I plead ignorance into what is the alleged patent traps in mono / .net
[15:19] <snap-l> mostly because I'm not as familiar with them as you.
[15:19] <snap-l> but I will agree that the claims are idiotic
[15:22] <wolfger> jrwren: http://www.fsf.org/news/2009-07-mscp-mono
[16:31] <wolfger> Buzz is oddly quiet today.
[16:32] <wolfger> Or possibly the "unread" count simply wasn't changing. There were several new items there when I clicked on it.
[16:59] <smoser> jcastro, did you get your thinkpad?
[17:04] <jrwren> brousch: mono doesn't stay away from windows forms, but if any of it were a patent issue, then Wine would be in HUGE trouble too, but we don't hear about FSF hating on Wine do we?
[17:04] <jrwren> hypocrits
[17:06] <jrwren> brousch: if you study that link you sent it doesn't add up.
[17:07] <jcastro> smoser: I did! Just waiting on new SSDs to come out!
[17:07] <jrwren> its also out of date, the community promise has been extended to the BCL, so specifically the serialization, xml and regex libs that the FSF cites.
[17:08] <jrwren> ugh, here I am defending a technology because i hate patents.
[17:08] <jrwren> NEVER let patents stop you from using the best tech.
[17:08] <jcastro> JUST ROLL WITH IT
[17:09] <snap-l> jrwren: I hate anything that stands in the way of progress
[17:09] <snap-l> and patents are standing in our way.
[17:10] <wolfger> snap-l++
[17:10] <wolfger> when you need a legal team in order to design software, something is wrong.
[17:10] <snap-l> http://mattendahl.blogspot.com/2011/03/all-about-emergency-managers-analysis.html
[17:12] <jrwren> right, but don't let that stop you from using the best technology.
[17:12] <jrwren> same thing with (c)
[17:13]  * wolfger patents the concept of using the best technology for the job.
[17:14] <jrwren> lol
[17:14] <wolfger> of course, that doesn't leave me very many companies to sue.
[17:14] <jrwren> i take it back
[17:14] <jrwren> its a sad world we live in.
[17:16] <wolfger> What really makes it sad is that people who don't have a clue are given the task of handing out software patents and/or ruling on the lawsuits regarding same.
[17:17] <wolfger> then some people actually believe patents protect inventors and encourage innovation
[17:39] <tjagoda> I would like to patent Wolfger's opinion
[17:39] <tjagoda> So that he must pay me royalty every time he speaks
[17:39] <wolfger> Noooooooo
[17:39] <tjagoda> I invented Wolfger's opinion
[17:40] <wolfger> actually, my opinion is not patentable. You'd have to patent a process by which you have an opinion.
[17:40] <wolfger> Then you could collect from anybody who has one. :-p
[17:41]  * brousch signs up for a psychology degree so he can rule the world
[17:41] <wolfger> I would in return claim that I have no opinions, only facts. :-D
[17:42] <brousch> i will patent usage of the part of your brain that is used for forming an opinion
[19:10] <rick_h_> greg-g: some prettying in bookie: http://rick.bmark.us//recent
[19:10] <rick_h_> just some basics, but should apply cleanly if you pull/restart
[19:12] <_stink_> rick_h_: oo
[19:12] <rick_h_> going to start some import ui and after that try to start some basic api auth I think
[19:13] <_stink_> awesome.  i've got an instance at bookie.adamlincoln.org
[19:13] <_stink_> IP restricted, though
[19:13] <rick_h_> yea, good call
[19:13] <rick_h_> I've started some checks, if you flip the "edit" in the config off it won't display links for delete/etc
[19:14] <rick_h_> and once I get the auth/api key stuff going you'll set an API key and the chrome plugin will be coded to use that as a simple form of auth
[19:14] <Blazeix> nice, I like the css calendar icon.
[19:14] <rick_h_> so not changes via http, have to use API with key to make changes
[19:14] <rick_h_> yea, only looked at the stuff in chrome since I'm using that and my extension is chrome only
[19:14] <rick_h_> but it's a start
[19:15] <_stink_> rick_h_: i plan to give FF a go with it.
[19:16] <rick_h_> awesome!
[19:16] <_stink_> unless greg-g has already carved that out.
[19:16] <_stink_> rick_h_: that and a curses client :)
[19:16] <rick_h_> I think you can copy/paste a lot of code since it's basic JS
[19:16] <Blazeix> fyi, it looks really good in IE9 and FF
[19:16] <_stink_> rick_h_: but you may get to that first
[19:16] <rick_h_> cool, good to know
[19:16] <Blazeix> missing the red part of the calendar and some rounded corners, but nothing huge
[19:16] <rick_h_> I don't know, right now I have a lot of work on the server side and figure I should stick with that as long as possible
[19:17] <rick_h_> but we'll see, it's a long term thing for sure
[19:17] <_stink_> yep
[19:17] <_stink_> i am the king of 'long-term project' :)
[19:18] <_stink_> just commited to pydidit on Sunday - first commit since April 2010 :P
[19:18] <_stink_> and still like 7 branches waiting to get wrapped up
[19:18] <rick_h_> lol
[19:18] <rick_h_> we should start a club
[19:19] <_stink_> you did - it's CHC
[19:20] <rick_h_> yea, but that's in person, and those of us that have such lazy/long term projects can't bother meeting
[19:20] <_stink_> oh yeah. :_)
[19:23] <greg-g> rick_h_: neat-o!
[19:23] <greg-g> _stink_: I haven't started on that Fx plugin yet :(
[19:23] <_stink_> greg-g: well, neither have I, so we both :(
[19:23] <greg-g> :( in groups is more fun that :( alone
[19:24] <_stink_> oh for sure
[19:24] <_stink_> everybody :( !
[19:26] <greg-g> :)
[19:30] <snap-l> Is it just me, or is ekiga garbage?
[19:30] <greg-g> haven't used it
[19:30] <snap-l> Well, it can't register my account
[19:30] <_stink_> snap-l: i had mixed success, oh, 1.5 years ago
[19:30] <snap-l> so is essentially useless.
[19:31] <greg-g> rick_h_: also, why aren't you in #bookie? :)
[19:32] <rick_h_> greg-g: doh, had irrsi reset
[19:32] <rick_h_> :)
[19:32] <rick_h_> stupid server
[19:33] <rick_h_> there, added to server
[20:33] <gamerchick02> listening to more lococast.
[20:33] <gamerchick02> i'd like to go to PenguiCon.
[20:34]  * brousch shivers uncomfortably.
[20:34] <gamerchick02> you cold, brousch?
[20:37] <brousch> scared
[20:38] <gamerchick02> bout what?
[20:38] <gamerchick02> Penguicon?
[20:50] <waldo323> there should be some pretty cool stuff at penguicon this year
[20:51] <gamerchick02> if i have the money and it's not too close to Supreme, i might go
[20:52] <waldo323> when is Supreme
[20:55] <_stink_> it's when the pizza comes with pepperoni, sausage, mushrooms, and green peppers
[20:56] <greg-g> mmmmm, pizza
[20:56] <_stink_> yes
[20:56] <_stink_> damnit
[20:56] <_stink_> now i want some
[20:56] <waldo323> i had pizza for pi day
[20:57] <waldo323> it was a good way to celebrate
[20:57] <gamerchick02> second week of june
[20:58] <snap-l> Penguicon is the end of April
[20:58] <gamerchick02> hrm
[20:58] <snap-l> last weekend of April even
[20:58] <gamerchick02> might be able to do it. not sure though. gotta look at my calendar
[20:59] <waldo323> april 29 - may 1, if memory serves
[21:07] <gamerchick02> thanks
[21:07] <rick_h_> what's "supreme"?
[21:10] <rick_h_> http://www.hilltopyodeler.com/blog/?p=435 pure awesome
[21:23] <gamerchick02> rick_h_ Supreme Session for Daughters of the Nile
[21:23] <gamerchick02> it's in Tampa this year
[21:24] <rick_h_> ah, gotcha
[21:29] <snap-l> http://www.metalinjection.net/av/worst-video-year
[21:30] <snap-l> Wow, where to begin
[21:30] <gamerchick02> lol, worst video of the year.
[21:31] <gamerchick02> has anyone used freemind?  what do you think?
[21:31] <snap-l> I have... it's OK, not great
[21:31] <snap-l> suffers from being Java
[21:32] <gamerchick02> ok
[21:32] <gamerchick02> what about vym or semantik?
[21:36] <snap-l> Freemind was the best one that I used, I'm afraid
[21:36] <snap-l> but that was a while ago
[21:39] <gamerchick02> ok. i'm thinking of a different way to organize my NaNo novel this year.
[21:39] <gamerchick02> i seem to get stuck, so maybe a different tool will help me?
[21:39] <gamerchick02> i dunno
[21:40] <snap-l> Well, what are you looking to accomplish?
[21:40] <snap-l> Scriviner has a Linux version, btw
[21:41] <gamerchick02> trying to organize my story notes in an easy way to move them around.
[21:41] <gamerchick02> and yeah, i know an outline is easy, but i'd like to try something different
[21:42] <snap-l> http://www.literatureandlatte.com/scrivener.php
[21:42] <snap-l> http://www.literatureandlatte.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=9150&sid=9b38eb10eee7435b47ab3e5ca8022c85
[21:43] <gamerchick02> danke.
[21:44] <snap-l> http://literatureandlatte.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=9154&start=210


[01:41] <nixternal> quiet in here
[01:41] <nixternal> HEY WAKE UP!!!!
[01:42] <screaming_flower> good morning
[01:42] <nixternal> whoa, and the nick goes right along with my screaming :)
[01:43] <LaserJock> hi nixternal
[01:43] <nixternal> hiya LaserJock
[01:44] <screaming_flower> i stole it out of a U2 song.  and i'm a audiofreak
[01:49] <crimsun> shh, I'm trying to stealthily install vista on nixternal's PC.
[01:49] <Admiral_Chicago> he was talking earlier that he wanted it
[01:50] <crimsun> yeah. I just couldn't bear to see him suffer.
[01:53] <nixternal> whoa whoa whoa
[01:53] <nixternal> netstat -a
[01:54] <nixternal> killall -q $$win*
[01:54] <Admiral_Chicago> you don't have to be humble around us
[01:54] <nixternal> I have Windows XP in VMware
[01:54] <nixternal> that is it
[01:54] <nixternal> and the only reason for that is because at school we have to use this app for Windows only
[01:56] <crimsun> it's all right; you can admit to running WinXP as your host OS and KDE as your guest. Admission is the first step on the road to recovery.
[01:58] <nixternal> hahaha, never
[02:00] <nixternal> hey, how come we cannot delete images from h.u.c/community?
[02:08] <LaserJock> nixternal: I've run KDE on OS X but I've never stooped *that* low ;-)
[02:12] <nixternal> hah
[02:13] <nixternal> I put Ubuntu back on my one test box and have been playing with it
[02:13] <nixternal> but the tweakability to make it look the way I want really stinks
[02:13] <nixternal> but the overall GUI I find a tad bit cleaner *looking* than KDE
[08:45] <mdke> morning
[04:08] <kdefreak> When does translation of kubuntu docs start?
[07:03] <somerville32> Oh... haha
[07:09] <dsa> hi !
[07:09] <dsa> im searching sivan green (sivang) do anyone know his email or something ?
[07:45] <nixternal> 3 more days!!!
[07:46] <tonyyarusso> nixternal: String freeze, right?
[07:46] <nixternal> then it is xml2po >> rosetta a few weeks later << repos >> package >> death
[07:46] <nixternal> yes
[07:46] <nixternal> I hate string freezes
[07:47] <tonyyarusso> How does one go about making and submitting changes for simple typos on an existing page?
[07:50] <LaserJock> tonyyarusso: what kind of page?
[07:50] <tonyyarusso> LaserJock: packaging/desktop/server guide ones
[07:55] <nixternal> do the typos on doc.ubuntu.com/kubuntu :)
[07:55] <nixternal> I need to put a callout for proofers tonight
[07:56] <tonyyarusso> How do you submit the fixes though?
[07:56] <LaserJock> tonyyarusso: get svn, make changes, svn diff, send diff to mailing list
[07:59] <tonyyarusso> got it
[08:16] <Ubugtu> New bug: #89935 in ubuntu-doc "Typos in italian "ubuntu desktop guide" 6.06" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/89935
[09:18] <CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: lucius * r3908 xubuntu/libs/images/ (XubuntuLogo.png headerlogo.png): update to new xubuntu logo
[09:43] <CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: lucius * r3909 xubuntu/ (3 files in 2 dirs): fix #81788
[09:45] <CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: lucius * r3910 xubuntu/desktopguide/C/common-tasks.xml: fix #85008
[09:52] <CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: lucius * r3911 xubuntu/desktopguide/C/guided-tour.xml: fix #86058
[10:01] <CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: lucius * r3912 xubuntu/desktopguide/C/guided-tour.xml: fix #86124
[10:04] <CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: lucius * r3913 xubuntu/libs/xubuntu.ent: fix #86127
[11:07] <CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: philbull * r3914 ubuntu/desktop-effects/C/desktop-effects.xml: Write material for desktop-effects
[11:15] <theCore> String Freeze this week, right?
[11:15] <Admiral_Chicago> theCore: the 8th
[11:15] <LaserJock> 8th
[11:15] <theCore> do you need help on the docs?
[11:19] <theCore> well, I will take that as a no ....
[11:30] <LaserJock> theCore: heh, I'm not sure if I have time for much
[11:31] <LaserJock> theCore: I'll probably just try to clean up bugs
[11:31] <LaserJock> if you want to help that's fine
[11:32] <theCore> well, I am in Spring Break, so I haven't really anything else to do than trying stuff, chatting, fixing bugs
[11:33] <theCore> I going to start to do some Python Core development, later this week, though
[11:33] <theCore> that will be fun, but hard
[12:01] <gabe_> hi
[12:02] <gabe_> hi, again, LaserJock
[12:02] <LaserJock> hi gabe_
[12:04] <gabe_> LaserJock: the doc team mailing list is awfully quiet, don't you think?
[12:10] <LaserJock> it is?
[12:10] <gabe_> i think so
[12:10] <gabe_> are you subscribed to it?
[12:12] <LaserJock> sure
[12:13] <gabe_> ah
[12:13] <LaserJock> we're just all working
[12:13] <gabe_> would you be able to tell me if my email was received OK, please?
[12:14] <LaserJock> gabe_: Gabriel Dragffy?
[12:14] <gabe_> yes :)
[12:15] <LaserJock> I got it
[12:16] <gabe_> do you know if I did the right thing - I mean is it useful and should I carry on, or is it not helpful


[06:03] <CarlFK1> this is only a little OT: where can I put a script to load netconsole?
[14:25] <CarlFK1> smb_tp: remember my "boot pauses" https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/linux/+bug/254668
[14:25] <ubot3> Malone bug 254668 in linux "[2.6.27] pausing during boot (several issues)" [Unknown,Confirmed]
[14:26] <apw> rtg, did you have a chance to look at the lpia trees i pushed yesterday?
[14:26] <CarlFK1> wondering if it is related to  "Tainted: P   M "   https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/317227
[14:26] <ubot3> Malone bug 317227 in linux "skb_over_panic skbuff.c:128 invalid opcode: 0000 [1] SMP " [Undecided,New]
[14:27] <CarlFK1> or there is anything related, given you looked at that boxes dmesg more than once
[14:32] <rtg> apw: its on my todo list for this morning.
[14:32] <apw> no worries
[14:33] <smb_tp> CarlFK1, Hi, yes I do remember, though I have been distracted by other stuff since. From somewhere I heard that people had success with jaunty for that...
[14:33]  * smb_tp looks at the link
[14:42] <CarlFK1> smb_tp: ill try a jaunty kernel and comment both of those bugs
[14:43] <smb_tp> CarlFK1, Ok, I am not really convinced they are tied together but thats just by quickly looking upon it
[14:45] <rtg> smb_tp: 2.6.27 stable updates pushed
[14:45] <smb_tp> rtg, Ok, thanks
[14:46] <smb_tp> rtg, that was stable update to -11, right?
[14:46] <smb_tp> Doh, <IP_ADDRESS> I meant to say
[14:46] <rtg> smb_tp: <IP_ADDRESS>
[14:47] <smb_tp> ok
[14:47] <rtg> not to be confused with -11 :)
[14:47] <smb_tp> yeah, thought of it the moment I hit enter
[14:48] <smb_tp> The upload of this will have to wait until we got the current one to -updates
[14:55] <CarlFK1> smb_tp: fixed the pause - yay
[14:55] <CarlFK1> "failed to start X"... not so yay.
[14:55] <CarlFK1> nvidia...
[14:56] <smb_tp> CarlFK1, So rather yayno. First is good, now I only would have to find which of the zillion changes this was.
[20:39] <Keybuk> well
[20:39] <Keybuk> and I stress that this isn't final
[20:39] <Keybuk> with just kernel and udev updates, it looks like jaunty takes 10s less time to boot than intrepid already
[20:39] <Keybuk> (no switching to ext4 or anything like that)
[20:40] <rtg> I've read similar anecdotal evidence. Is that with readahead?
[20:40] <Keybuk> same readahead as intrepid
[20:40] <Keybuk> I did reprofile it to make sure
[20:40] <Keybuk> before both
[20:40] <Keybuk> so that shouldn't effect the numbers
[20:41] <Keybuk> grub to full login is now 61s
[20:41] <rtg> huh, I didn't know we were doing readahead. Is that part of initramfs?
[20:41] <Keybuk> it's part of the normal system booy
[20:41] <Keybuk> /etc/rcS.d/S01readahead
[20:42] <Keybuk> has been since, err, hoary
[20:42] <Keybuk> I'm pretty sure it was Mataro we put that in, the food still haunts my memories
[20:42] <Keybuk> so it wasn't warty
[20:42] <rtg> drat, I was hoping readahead would get us the next 10 second win.
[20:43] <Keybuk> sorting out readahead might buy us more
[20:43] <Keybuk> but this is SSD
[20:44] <Keybuk> readahead counts for less than 1s of the boot to read in the entire profile
[20:44] <rtg> I'm working on LRM boot time link. that ought to buy us 2-4 secs
[20:44] <pwnguin> one thing ive noticed is that boot time degrades over time =/
[20:44] <Keybuk> switching from "read in entire profile then move on" to "read in by access order throughout the boot" may be an improvement of a few seconds, since less ram is required
[20:44] <Keybuk> pwnguin: sure, because your readahead profile gets increasingly out of date
[20:44] <Keybuk> so you need to load more from disk
[20:44] <rtg> Keybuk: have you messed with ext4?
[20:45] <pwnguin> Keybuk: there's also the matter of fragmentation
[20:46] <Keybuk> pwnguin: ext* are largely self-defragmenting
[20:46] <Keybuk> rtg: no, noet yet
[20:46] <Keybuk> my next task is to sort out module-init-tools
[20:46] <Keybuk> I'm hoping for another couple of seconds there
[20:46] <pwnguin> Keybuk: and yet, i have documented proof that super duper hack involving tar retrieves a few seconds
[20:46] <Keybuk> then sort out the hardware clock and console setup (on the sprint agenda), I'm hoping *that's* another couple of seconds
[20:47] <rtg> a few sends here, a few seconds there, ....
[20:47] <Keybuk> pwnguin: sure, but that's for a different reason ;)  it realigns your disk order with your readahead profile (which is in that kind of order)
[20:47] <pwnguin> it could be that the fs groups writes together
[20:47] <Keybuk> there's a sleep in procps I'm going to uncover
[20:47] <pwnguin> so theres fewer seeks
[20:47] <Keybuk> that's almost 2s
[20:47] <rtg> thats an odd place for a sleep
[20:47] <pwnguin> Keybuk: what do you think about removing the png-ification on bootchart, and leaving it as svg?
[20:47] <Keybuk> rtg: I know
[20:47] <Keybuk> pwnguin: SVGs are a pain
[20:48] <Keybuk> name me a program that can view them
[20:48] <pwnguin> inkscape?
[20:48] <Keybuk> inkscape can't view them, it can edit them
[20:48] <pwnguin> firefox
[20:48] <Keybuk> firefox can't view them last time I looked unless they're embeded in html
[20:48]  * Keybuk doesn't understand why people mind the pngification
[20:49] <pwnguin> it basically defeats datamining
[20:49] <Keybuk> rtg: well, with all the bits and pieces everywhere, including ext4 ... I'm hoping for X in 15s for jaunty
[20:49] <Keybuk> pwnguin: I don't follow? bootchart doesn't include itself in its own chart ;)
[20:49] <rtg> now if we could speed up that pig GDM startup
[20:49] <Keybuk> rtg: this is rather less than what I thought we could get - so I'm really happy
[20:50] <Keybuk> you guys have done great work
[20:50] <Keybuk> kernel accounts for roughly half of that improvement from what I can tell
[20:50] <pwnguin> Keybuk: imagine being able to graph the bootchart over time
[20:50] <Keybuk> pwnguin: personally I disable stop-bootchart and run it by hand once I get to the logged in session anyway
[20:51] <Keybuk> pwnguin: again, irrelevant, since bootchart doesn't include itself
[20:51] <Keybuk> you start generating the png at the point you've stopped collecting data
[20:51] <pwnguin> im vastly confused
[20:51] <Keybuk> bootchart generates a chart of your boot
[20:51] <pwnguin> yes
[20:51] <Keybuk> at some point, it decides to stop collecting data
[20:51] <Keybuk> that's when it generates the chart
[20:51] <pwnguin> indeed
[20:51] <Keybuk> so the time to generate the chart is irrelevant to the length of time it takes to boot
[20:51] <pwnguin> and then it writes to $version-$date-$uid
[20:52] <Keybuk> now, some people install bootchart
[20:52] <Keybuk> and leave it installed
[20:52] <pwnguin> i agree, but i never said anything about bootchart itself
[20:52] <Keybuk> and complain that it slows down login or something, because it's generating the png
[20:52] <Keybuk> but well
[20:52] <Keybuk> that's silly
[20:52] <pwnguin> let me re explain
[20:52] <Keybuk> why would you leave it installed if you're not doing work on the boot sequence?
[20:52] <pwnguin> i dont care about bootchart speed
[20:52] <Keybuk> the collector slows down your boot anyway
[20:52] <pwnguin> i care about having access to a vast array of bootcharts
[20:52] <Keybuk> why?
[20:53] <Keybuk> unless you know what you changed between each chart, they're not really helpful
[20:53] <pwnguin> for example, graphing performance over time
[20:53] <pwnguin> maybe to identify common problems outside the defaults tested
[20:53] <Keybuk> but it's not useful
[20:53] <Keybuk> because you don't know what changed to cause any bootchart changes
[20:54] <Keybuk> "my boot is faster/slower" kinda of reports are nice
[20:54] <Keybuk> but not really helpful
[20:54] <Keybuk> "with ext3 my boot takes 25s, with ext4 my boot takes 21s" are useful
[20:54] <Keybuk> you only need two charts for that, one before, make the change, then another one after
[20:56] <pwnguin> well it would at least provide a high level view for people who don't dedicate themselves to the task, and help identify large upward spikes
[20:56] <pwnguin> presumably you arent testing thnigs that would make it worse
[20:57] <Keybuk> but that data isn't helpful
[20:57] <Keybuk> to use a real-world example
[20:57] <Keybuk> it's like taking your weight every morning
[20:57] <Keybuk> and making pretty graphs
[20:57] <Keybuk> and realising you're getting fatter, and identifying spikes
[20:57] <Keybuk> but then not recording what you're eating, or how much exercise you're doing
[20:57] <Keybuk> it's no good knowing that there was a 7-day spike when you weighed 5kg more
[20:57] <Keybuk> if you don't also note down that it's christmas and you stuffed your face
[20:58] <Keybuk> bootchart is only the measurement of time
[20:58] <Keybuk> in order for it to be meaningful, we need to know what changes between successive ones
[20:58] <Keybuk> so they don't identify large upward spikes at all
[20:58] <Keybuk> worse still, they can be self-propelling
[20:58] <pwnguin> they're meaningful
[20:58] <Keybuk> two people can both identify an increase in boot time
[20:58] <pwnguin> they're just not proscriptive
[20:58] <Keybuk> and assume they're for the same reasons
[20:59] <Keybuk> and unfortunately, the chart doesn't tell you they're not
[20:59] <Keybuk> (we've seen this)
[20:59] <pwnguin> it tells you there's a problem, not what the problem is
[20:59] <Keybuk> one person had a legitimate bug
[20:59] <Keybuk> the other's hard drive was dying
[20:59] <Keybuk> exactly, and I don't think that it's a good way to detect the problem
[20:59] <Keybuk> simply logging /proc/uptime at the end of rc.local is as good as anything
[20:59] <Keybuk> you don't need bootchart for that ;)
[20:59] <Keybuk> bootchart is a tool for people actually making changes and wanting to see whether they have an effect
[21:00] <Keybuk> (actually, bootchart is largely a tool for making changes to the readahead profile, but hey)
[21:00] <pwnguin> you could measure the change in readahead time =/
[21:00] <pwnguin> i donno if that would help, readahead is a cache trick with distributed consequences
[21:00] <Keybuk> doesn't quite work
[21:00] <Keybuk> but yes, that kind of thing
[21:05] <pwnguin> Keybuk: so if firefox rendered bootchart svgs correctly in jaunty, is there any reason to continue pngification?
[21:07] <Keybuk> yes
[21:07] <Keybuk> I like pngs
[21:07] <Keybuk> you can view them with zvg
[21:07] <Keybuk> zgv even
[21:08] <pwnguin> well, its trivial to enable / disable it, and you can easily convert later ;)
[21:08] <Keybuk> I'm sorry, but I just don't agree with your use case
[21:08] <Keybuk> you're complaining because it makes your boot slower
[21:08] <Keybuk> well, bootchart in general makes your boot slower
[21:08] <pwnguin> im not
[21:08] <pwnguin> of course its slower
[21:09] <Keybuk> so what's the issue? :-)
[21:09] <pwnguin> it's bigger on disk, throws away potentially valuable information, and in random edge cases, massively delays boot
[21:10] <Keybuk> err, the svg is much bigger on disk actually
[21:10] <pwnguin> svgz
[21:10] <Keybuk> no valuable information is thrown away, the svg is identical
[21:11] <Keybuk> however the png is much more portably viewable
[21:11] <Keybuk> (including can be viewed on the console)
[21:12] <Keybuk> (I'd be interested to see the random edge cases, btw
[21:12] <pwnguin> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bootchart/+bug/218499
[21:12] <Keybuk>  and would wager that the process taking the longer time isn't rsvg but is the java one :p)
[21:12] <ubot3> Malone bug 218499 in bootchart "after fsck, bootchart -> rsvg-convert makes computer slow" [Low,Confirmed]
[21:12] <pwnguin> you've seen it already
[21:12] <Keybuk> right, and that one, it's mostly the java one that takes longer
[21:13] <Keybuk> rsvg-convert just takes longer too
[21:13] <Keybuk> so by the time people look, it's that one as well
[21:13] <Keybuk> and as I say in the bug
[21:13] <Keybuk> "then uninstall bootchart"
[21:15] <Keybuk> rtg: and I really must stop lsb-release calling apt-cache