[00:01] <menn0_> anyone able to do a (likely quick) review: https://codereview.appspot.com/100620046/
[00:12] <perrito666> menn0: this is is a purely personal thought, but decodeyaml could escalate that error to decodeyamlfrostdout who could escalateit up and so the actual error assertion would be in the test using it
[00:13] <menn0> perrito666: the reason for doing it the way I did is that it avoids boilerplate in each test method
[00:14] <menn0> perrito666: there's no backtrace in the failure output is there?
[00:14] <perrito666> menn0: iirc no
[00:14] <menn0> perrito666: my Python background is showing :)
[00:15] <menn0> perrito666: I'll change the tests according to your suggestion.
[00:15] <perrito666> oh, I am as pythonish as you, worry not
[00:27] <perrito666> menn0: you might want to get a better review, I am relatively new here too
[00:28] <menn0> perrito666: understood. thanks for looking.
[01:04] <wallyworld> morning axw
[01:05] <axw> hey wallyworld
[01:05] <wallyworld> sadly jenkins is not very happy, but the failures are seemingly random, one off things
[01:07] <axw> :(
[01:07] <wallyworld> for now though, there's a couple of bugs that need looking at for a 1.19.3 release. i plan to grab one after i run some gccgo tests, so if you are at a loose end, feel free to grab one also
[01:07] <axw> sure
[01:07] <axw> I was going to fix that utopic one first
[01:08] <axw> then look at gccgo things
[01:08] <wallyworld> sure ok
[01:08] <axw> wallyworld: turns out 1.18 *does* use juju-mongodb on local, but *only* on trusty
[01:08] <axw> should be trusty onwards
[01:08] <wallyworld> lol ok
[01:10] <wallyworld> axw: feel free then to look at gccgo stuff after the mongo fix - first thing we need to do is fully understand how many test failures are left to fix
[01:10] <axw> nps
[01:12] <wallyworld> hopefully it won't be too much effort to ensure that bugs in lp reflect the situation - one bug tagged ppc64el / test-failure per issue
[01:12] <wallyworld> then we can drive that count down to 0
[01:47] <waigani> wallyworld: ping
[01:48] <waigani> wallyworld: JujuConnSuite already calls dummy.Reset() in its TearDownTest. That was basically my fix :(
[01:48] <wallyworld> ah ok
[01:49] <wallyworld> well there's still something wrong sadly :-(
[01:49] <waigani> yep
[01:50] <wallyworld> we can see how often it comes up
[01:50] <waigani> okay, you know where to fine me
[02:01] <axw> wallyworld: https://codereview.appspot.com/99410053/ please
[02:01] <wallyworld> looking
[03:09] <bodie_> to check whether my dependencies.tsv is suitable for use with gccgo, I can just "make" in the juju-core root directory, right?
[03:11] <jam> bodie_: are you wanting to check that the dependencies themselves are compatible with gccgo?
[03:12] <jam> bodie_: AFAICT the Makefile knows nothing about dependencies.tsv, though we should probably fix that
[03:13] <bodie_> well, I figured if I've aligned deps with godeps, then if I make with gccgo, I should be able to tell whether the build is broken or not
[03:13] <bodie_> I just don't know how to make with gccgo, which I'm sure is something simple :) just not seeing it
[03:13] <jam> bodie_: so "make" will only switch to gccgo if you aren't on x86, armel or armhf
[03:13] <bodie_> yeah, I was just noticing that
[03:13] <jam> go build -compiler=gccgo launchpad.net/juju-core/...
[03:14] <bodie_> okay, thanks
[03:14] <jam> the "..." means recursively
[03:14] <bodie_> that's simpler than I expected
[03:34] <davecheney> jam: bodie_ that is an accurate summary
[03:35] <davecheney> iff you are using trusty you can test with both compilers on your amd64 machine
[03:35] <davecheney> just use the -compiler=gccgo flag to switch to gccgo
[03:35] <davecheney> if that passes, that is all that we expect
[03:37] <bodie_> hmmm
[03:37] <bodie_> I thought I was on 14.04, but I'm on saucy
[03:37] <bodie_> I'll have to try on my pc
[03:41] <davecheney> bodie_: we can probably get the compiler in a backport ppa
[03:41] <davecheney> but you probably want to upgrade to trusty pretty soon
[03:41] <davecheney> a. it'll be easier
[03:41] <davecheney> b. saucy suport expores at the end of JUly ? I think
[03:42] <davecheney> c. it's the smoothest upgrade i've had, it's very polished from saucy -> trusty
[03:42] <bodie_> makes sense :) there was some reason I'd set up our dev remote as saucy... I think there was some kind of weird build issue when we were coming onboard
[03:42] <davecheney> and this laptop has gone from P -> Q -> R -> S
[03:42] <bodie_> nice
[03:42] <davecheney> -> T
[04:15] <davecheney> axw: did you take https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1321492 ?
[04:15] <_mup_> Bug #1321492: provider/openstack: gccgo test failures <gccgo> <ppc64el> <test-failure> <juju-core:In Progress by axwalk> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1321492>
[04:18] <axw> davecheney: I did
[04:19] <axw> davecheney: working through gccgo bugs now
[04:19] <davecheney> sorry, just proposed a fix
[04:19] <axw> no worries, was trivial anyway
[04:24] <davecheney> axw: i'm going to fix all the trivials in the ppc tests today
[04:24] <davecheney> then we'll be able to see the underlying problems better
[04:24] <davecheney> there are, roughtly
[04:24] <davecheney> 3
[04:24] <davecheney> one tools related failure
[04:24] <davecheney> a timeout with the joyent tests
[04:25] <davecheney> and a runtime or compiler crash
[04:25] <davecheney> i want to expose those as the only failures
[04:25] <davecheney> https://codereview.appspot.com/95550045
[04:25] <axw> ok, cool
[04:25] <davecheney> the rest are just noise
[04:25] <axw> davecheney: the one in worker may not be trivial, if that's the runtime/compiler crash you're referring to
[04:25] <davecheney> yup
[04:25] <axw> looks like it's related to the receive loop in init()
[04:26] <davecheney> axw: you take a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1303583
[04:26] <_mup_> Bug #1303583: provider/azure: new test failure <gccgo> <juju-core:In Progress by axwalk> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1303583>
[04:26] <davecheney> i see you've snagged it
[04:26] <axw> davecheney: already proposed
[04:27] <davecheney> link ?
[04:27] <axw> https://codereview.appspot.com/93520047/
[04:27] <davecheney> axw: do you use lbox propose -bug=NNN
[04:28] <davecheney> the it links the bug to the branch
[04:28] <axw> davecheney: I don't because of the milestone thing
[04:28] <davecheney> so when you get an email that the branch is merged
[04:28] <axw> I usually link manually, but sometimes forget
[04:28] <davecheney> you can click through to the bug
[04:28] <davecheney> fix the milestone and mark it fix comitted
[04:30] <davecheney> axw: fwiw i tag all these bugs as gccgo and pcc64el
[04:31] <axw> davecheney: yup, have been looking at the gccgo tag so far
[04:31] <davecheney> i consider them to be synonyms, but others like to track them independanty
[04:44] <bodie_> I think my MR is mostly ready to roll, but I'm having some trouble when I try to build with GCCGo.  I'm not sure if I'm doing something wrong.  Can anyone else verify?
[04:44] <bodie_> https://codereview.appspot.com/94540044/
[04:44] <bodie_> it adds a few dependencies and one of them doesn't seem to be happy.
[04:45] <davecheney> bodie_: which one
[04:45] <davecheney> i'll try
[04:45] <bodie_> github.com/sigu-399/gojsonpointer
[04:45] <davecheney> % cover
[04:45] <davecheney> PASS
[04:45] <davecheney> coverage: 66.7% of statements
[04:45] <davecheney> hmmm ...
[04:46] <davecheney>  % go test -compiler=gccgo
[04:46] <davecheney> PASS
[04:46] <davecheney> ok      github.com/sigu-399/gojsonpointer       0.047s
[04:46] <davecheney> lucky(~/src/github.com/sigu-399/gojsonpointer) %
[04:46] <davecheney> works for me
[04:46] <davecheney> bodie_: if you are using saucy
[04:46] <davecheney> you will have gccgo-4.8
[04:46] <davecheney> which is, sadly, not up to the task
[04:46] <bodie_> I'm on Trusty on my PC here
[04:47] <davecheney> bodie_: can you show what you see, use paste.ubuntu.com
[04:47] <davecheney> or install pastebinit
[04:47] <bodie_> yeah
[04:48] <bodie_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7500153/
[04:48] <bodie_> perhaps it's because I'm using zsh...
[04:49] <davecheney> oh
[04:49] <bodie_> negative
[04:49] <bodie_> same issue using bash
[04:49] <davecheney> that is a differnt problem
[04:49] <davecheney> here is what's happened
[04:50] <davecheney> 1. you did go get -u -v launchpad.net/juju-core/...
[04:50] <davecheney> which is going to fetch all the _current_ juju dependencies
[04:50] <bodie_> right
[04:50] <davecheney> then you switch to your branch
[04:50] <davecheney> which essentially has new dependencies
[04:50] <davecheney> which is why godeps is whinging
[04:50] <davecheney> the simplest solution for today would be
[04:50] <davecheney> go get -u -v github.com/sigu-399/gojsonpointer
[04:50] <bodie_> I figured I should switch before doing a godeps so that I get the same version I had in my code
[04:50] <davecheney> and the same for the other two new deps
[04:50] <davecheney> then godeps should be happy
[04:51] <bodie_> oh.... but it's complaining because my code is an older version of core...?
[04:51] <bodie_> wouldn't ... oh
[04:51] <bodie_> I see
[04:51] <bodie_> could I go get lp:~binary132/juju-core/charm-actions ?
[04:53] <axw> davecheney: I got to the bottom of the issue in worker
[04:53] <axw> davecheney: seems that closing a channel twice in gccgo will abort hte process, even if you recover the error
[04:53] <axw> panic*
[04:54] <davecheney> axw: hmm
[04:54] <davecheney> is that worth a bug upstream ?
[04:54] <davecheney> one nice thing about gccgo is gdb actuially works
[04:54] <axw> davecheney: http://play.golang.org/p/eUJw-e1GRJ
[04:54] <axw> davecheney: yeah I think so
[04:55] <davecheney> axw: two secs
[04:55] <davecheney> bodie_: are you going ok for the moment ?
[04:55] <waigani> how do I patch name, username and id of the current user for testing? I've tried s.PatchEnvironment("USER", "admin001"), but in the test switch still prints "jesse"
[04:55] <davecheney> axw: what happens if you make the call stack a bit longer
[04:56] <davecheney> i suspect that the main function, or main gorotuine might be a bit special in gccgo
[04:56] <bodie_> yes, I'm about to head to bed actually (UTC-4)
[04:56] <axw> davecheney: it wasn't in the main function in the test, that's just a minimal repro
[04:56] <bodie_> would the right way to do things from the beginning be to fetch via lp:~binary132/juju-core/charm-actions directly?
[04:56] <davecheney> axw: http://play.golang.org/p/VNezaP7ADp
[04:56] <davecheney> bang on
[04:57] <axw> davecheney: FYI it's in worker/simpler.go, the Kill method
[04:57] <axw> we can work around it, but a upstream bug is warranted
[04:57] <bodie_> hrm, gccgo not found on path on trusty either
[04:57] <davecheney> axw: do you want to raise it ?
[04:57] <davecheney> or i can do it
[04:58] <axw> I can
[04:58] <davecheney> cool, excellent
[04:58] <davecheney> surely double closing a channel is a bug
[04:58] <davecheney> and using recover to cover for that is a horrid smell
[04:58] <axw> yeah
[04:58] <davecheney> axw: raise the bug on golang.org/issue
[04:59] <axw> will do
[04:59] <davecheney> i don't think the issuetracker on the gofront-end project is used as much
[04:59] <bodie_> can I just apt-get install gccgo?
[04:59] <bodie_> will that be suitable?
[04:59] <davecheney> bodie_: yes
[04:59] <bodie_> okay, that's nice
[04:59] <davecheney> bodie_: actually, you'll have to do
[04:59] <davecheney> apt-get install gccgo-4.9
[05:00] <bodie_> uh oh, already started build.  do I need to clean
[05:00] <bodie_> ?
[05:00] <bodie_> er, it looks like I may have installed gccgo-4.9 by default (since trusty)
[05:01] <davecheney> gccgo -v
[05:01] <davecheney> % gccgo -v 2>&1 | tail -n1
[05:01] <davecheney> gcc version 4.9.0 20140405 (experimental) [trunk revision 209157] (Ubuntu 4.9-20140406-0ubuntu1)
[05:02] <bodie_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7500172/
[05:02] <davecheney> bodie_: run godeps -u dependencies.tsv
[05:02] <davecheney> if it whinges, fix the problem and run it again
[05:02] <axw> davecheney: filed https://code.google.com/p/go/issues/detail?id=8070
[05:03] <axw> davecheney: I can fix it in our code, unless you're already doing that
[05:03] <davecheney> added some code
[05:03] <davecheney> sorry, tags
[05:03] <davecheney> axw: if you're there have a crack
[05:03] <davecheney> i'm doing another ppc test run to find some more issues
[05:03] <bodie_> all righty
[05:04] <bodie_> there we go, seems to be working
[05:04] <bodie_> thanks
[05:04] <bodie_> and built!
[05:04] <davecheney> win
[05:04] <davecheney> is the bot running ?
[05:04] <davecheney> it's been a long time since I marked that change as accepted
[05:04] <davecheney> approved
[05:04] <bodie_> bot?
[05:05] <davecheney> bodie_: the commit landing bot
[05:05] <davecheney> aww crap
[05:05] <davecheney> i see the problme
[05:07] <bodie_> I need to lbox propose again, right?
[05:08] <davecheney> always
[05:08] <davecheney> propose early, propose often
[05:08] <jcw4_> if in doubt.... propose again
[05:08] <bodie_> then propose s'more!
[05:09] <bodie_> yeah, my last propose was -wip
[05:11] <bodie_> and there it should be
[05:11] <bodie_> https://codereview.appspot.com/94540044
[05:12] <davecheney> wallyworld: axw what are we going to do about the joyent tests ?
[05:12] <wallyworld> which bit?
[05:12] <wallyworld> the time taken to run them?
[05:13] <wallyworld> i'll got pull requests waiting to be merged by upstream
[05:13] <wallyworld> that will fix the execution tim
[05:13] <wallyworld> is there anything else?
[05:15] <davecheney> that's basically it
[05:15] <davecheney> they run so slowly on ppc they always timeout
[05:15] <wallyworld> yeah. i did fix it over a week ago
[05:15] <wallyworld> just need to get my changes to upstream libs merged in, hopefully this week
[05:16] <wallyworld> davecheney: axw : so, do you have a feel for how long we need to get the tests running under gccgo and ppc (assuming joyent ones are fixed)? 1 week? 2 weeks?
[05:17] <davecheney> wallyworld: today i feel confident that we can close this off in a week
[05:17] <wallyworld> o/
[05:17] <wallyworld> \o/
[05:17] <davecheney> ask me tomrrow, we might have a different answer
[05:17] <wallyworld> lol ok
[05:17] <davecheney> but it's looking pretty good so far
[05:18] <wallyworld> is there anything outside our control? what's the exposure to compiler issues?
[05:18] <davecheney> ask axw, i think it's managable
[05:18] <axw> wallyworld: so far seems fine
[05:18] <wallyworld> compiler issues?
[05:18] <axw> wallyworld: only one gccgo-specific issue, but that's because our code is a bit crap
[05:18] <axw> brtb
[05:19] <wallyworld> ok, so we can fix our code hopefully
[05:19] <axw> yes I am fixing that one atm
[05:20] <wallyworld> axw: looking at your address polling branch - it seems that DNSName is not really used with the changes made
[05:20] <davecheney> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7500164/
[05:20] <davecheney> some of these have fixes waiting to be landed by the bot
[05:20] <axw> wallyworld: it's not meant to be anymore
[05:21] <wallyworld> axw: yeah, i had heard that i thin, just wanted to confirm. so we should follow up and remove it i guess
[05:21] <wallyworld> davecheney: that pastebin doesn't look too bad
[05:21] <axw> wallyworld: oh sorry, misunderstood
[05:21] <axw> wallyworld: if it's not used anywhere, definitely
[05:22] <axw> wallyworld: I thought it might still be used in status
[05:22] <wallyworld> axw: it doesn't *seem* to be at first glance. not sure about status
[05:22] <axw> but it wouldn't... it uses machhine's public address now
[05:22] <wallyworld> yeah
[05:22] <axw> wallyworld: I will follow up and wipe it out
[05:22] <wallyworld> only issue is we would want to give people te dns name to connect to
[05:22] <wallyworld> rather than an ip address
[05:22] <axw> we can do that still, with Addresses
[05:23] <axw> there's an address type
[05:23] <wallyworld> ah yes, true
[05:23] <bodie_> 'night all
[05:23] <axw> night
[05:23] <wallyworld> seeya
[05:23] <wallyworld> axw: ok, i'll get a 2nd opinion on getting rid of dnsname and we can nuke it
[05:24] <axw> cool
[05:30] <axw> davecheney: https://codereview.appspot.com/98480046 fixes worker
[05:31] <davecheney> man, that is a nasty code smell
[05:31] <davecheney> why isn't this code using a tomb ?
[05:31] <davecheney> this is exactly what a tomb is for
[05:32]  * axw shrugs
[05:33] <axw> tomb seems a little heavy here, it's pretty trivial code
[05:33] <davecheney> lol
[05:47] <jcw4> wallyworld: dumb question... jc.DeepEquals is not the same as gc.DeepEquals right?
[05:47] <jcw4> wallyworld: if I want to use jc.SameContents what import is that?
[05:47] <jam> jcw4: IIRC it differs based on whether []slice(nil) == []slice()
[05:47] <wallyworld> jcw4: same end result, but jc.DeepEquals gives far better errors, so use that
[05:47] <jam> is the empty slice the same as a nil slice
[05:48] <wallyworld> plus the slice difference, yeah
[05:48] <jcw4> jam, wallyworld cool thanks
[05:48] <wallyworld> gc.DeepEquals is considered deprecated
[05:48] <jcw4> what is the import for jc.*
[05:48] <jcw4> juju-core?
[05:48] <wallyworld> launchpad.net/juju-core/checkers i think
[05:48] <jcw4> k, tx!
[05:49] <wallyworld> no
[05:49] <wallyworld> bad memory
[05:49] <wallyworld> github.com/juju/testing/checkers
[05:50] <jcw4> wallyworld: I see it now... it's in a handful of tests already
[05:50] <wallyworld> yeah
[06:00] <jcw4_> hmm;  gc.DeepEquals is okay for maps, but use jc.SameContents for slices?
[06:01] <jcw4_> it looks like even gc.DeepEquals is intended for slices...
[06:01] <jcw4_> is there any similar comparison tool for maps?
[06:01] <jcw4_> Or do I need to compare the keys and values separately?
[06:02] <dimitern> jam, hey
[06:02] <jam> morning dimitern
[06:03] <dimitern> jam, so everybody else than niemeyer is chickening out of giving me an lgtm for this goamz branch, 3rd day in a row, and i'm starting to get frustrated.. https://codereview.appspot.com/98430044/
[06:03] <wallyworld> jcw4: DeepEquals works for slices sure, but it fails if order is different
[06:04] <dimitern> and he even gave me a not lgtm, but i fixed what we discussed, and i'll be waiting for him to appear later today and hopefully approve it
[06:04] <wallyworld> SameContents doesn't care about order, so you can think of it as treating a slice like a set
[06:04] <wallyworld> well, except sets can't have dupes
[06:04] <jcw4> wallyworld: I'm getting an error using SameContents with two maps
[06:05] <wallyworld> use DeepEquals
[06:05] <jcw4> wallyworld: ok
[06:05] <jcw4> wallyworld: tx!
[06:05] <wallyworld> np
[06:21] <davecheney> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7500334/
[06:21] <davecheney> axw: getting closer
[06:23] <axw> nice
[06:23] <jcw4> mgz, fwereade : I think this is the last go round: https://codereview.appspot.com/98260043
[06:28] <jam> dimitern: I have some comments, but adding reviews just adds more chefs to the pot :). I still feel like you're in the best position to be comfortable with it, and if you are, LGTM
[06:29] <dimitern> jam, thank you!
[06:52] <rogpeppe> mornin' all
[06:59] <dimitern> hey rogpeppe
[06:59] <rogpeppe> dimitern: yo!
[07:00] <dimitern> rogpeppe, just back from holiday? or you're hanging in other channels usually?
[07:00] <dimitern> :)
[07:00] <rogpeppe> dimitern: just back from holiday
[07:00] <rogpeppe> dimitern: was in Cypress for two weeks
[07:00] <dimitern> rogpeppe, excellent!
[07:01] <rogpeppe> dimitern: yeah, it was!
[07:06] <davecheney> night all
[07:06] <dimitern> 'night davecheney
[07:10] <dimitern> jam, so no standups today, just the x-team meeting @14.30 utc?
[07:11] <wallyworld_> axw: i will add another test before landing - you're right, it's messy to do
[07:11] <axw> wallyworld_: okey dokey
[07:11] <wallyworld_> i was being lazy :-)
[07:12] <axw> wallyworld_: I just noticed there's a card "TestEnsureAdminUser is still broken"
[07:12] <axw> wallyworld_: did CI fail again?
[07:12] <wallyworld_> yeah, the latest test run has it failing, and also several over the past few days
[07:12] <wallyworld_> not every time
[07:12] <wallyworld_> but often enough
[07:12] <wallyworld_> the other failures all seem to be one off
[07:12] <axw> wallyworld_: latest run of "walk tests" on trusty is buggered, the machine is out of space
[07:13] <wallyworld_> this is the one i looked at just before
[07:13] <wallyworld_> http://juju-ci.vapour.ws:8080/job/walk-unit-tests-amd64-trusty/330/console
[07:13] <axw> ok
[07:13] <wallyworld_> plus a few others over the past few days
[07:13] <wallyworld_> it seems much better but not quite fully fixed
[07:14]  * wallyworld_ -> soccer
[07:14] <axw> later
[07:50] <jam> dimitern: right now we didn't have the team standup because of the x-team meeting, I might reintroduce it, but we hadn't talked about it, so I'll skip it today
[07:52] <dimitern> jam, ok, do any of us need to be at the x-team?
[07:52] <jam> dimitern: the goal is that if you *can* be there you should, as we'd like people to go to 2 out of 3 of the meetings.
[07:53] <jam> I will not be able to be there tonight, as it is my 10-year anniversary weekend
[07:53] <jam> but I'll probably be going to most of them.
[07:53] <dimitern> jam, right, I'll try to attend then - it is one of the poor-quality-voip-conference calls right?
[07:54] <TheMue> morning
[07:54] <jam> dimitern: ah sorry, this is the whole team juju meeting at 18:00 UTC
[07:54] <jam> dimitern: sorry, the x-team meeting at 14:30UTC is not one you have to be at
[07:54] <jam> we need a smattering of people from Juju to be there.
[07:55] <dimitern> jam, ah, ok
[07:55] <jam> dimitern: the one at 18:00UTC is the replacement for the weekly whole team meeting that we used to have at 10:00UTC on Thursdays
[07:55]  * TheMue is looking forward to the 1800UTC meeting, see some of the new US colleagues.
[07:55] <dimitern> jam, it'll be more difficult to attend the one at 18 utc - it is the only one this week and will rotate next week at another time iirc?
[07:56] <jam> I think 18:00 is around 20:00 for you, right?
[07:56] <jam> dimitern: right, next week it will be 8 hours later
[07:56] <jam> (16 hours earlier, depends on POV)
[07:56] <TheMue> jam: it is 20 CEST, yes
[07:56] <dimitern> jam, :) so +8h each week?
[07:56] <jam> dimitern: right
[07:56] <dimitern> hey TheMue
[07:56] <jam> we'd like people to make it to 2 out of 3
[07:56] <TheMue> dimitern: heya
[07:57] <dimitern> jam, ok, so 18 utc, 2 utc and 10 utc
[07:57] <TheMue> jam: but don’t expect me to join the 200UTC meeting :D only if I cannot sleep
[07:57] <TheMue> dimitern: yep
[07:57] <jam> TheMue: yep.
[07:57] <jam> It is at 6am here, so I can *just* make it.
[07:57] <dimitern> jam, why 2 out of 3 ?
[07:58] <jam> dimitern: it is an approximate, but hopefully we can make that work
[07:58] <TheMue> 6am is hard enough *yawn*
[07:58] <jam> we want people to see each other as much as we can
[07:59] <jam> dimitern: it isn't hard and fast, but we used to see everyone every week, but can't actually do that with 21 people
[07:59] <dimitern> jam, i see - that way at least for one of the meetings everyone will make an effort to attend at an inconvenient time
[08:00] <jam> it is possible that we could make it at the start of and end of some people's work day
[08:00] <jam> but it is too hard to actually try to do the numbers to actually figure out what time of day that would be
[08:00] <jam> this way at least 1 per 3 weeks should definitely be in your normal TZ
[08:01] <dimitern> or perhaps make 4 meetings instead of 3, that way the intended goal is easier to achieve i think
[08:01] <dimitern> each one 6h apart
[08:02] <dimitern> jam, was that an option?
[08:03] <jam> it wasn't ever brought up, it would be something to consider
[08:34] <voidspace> morning all
[09:09] <jam> dimitern: the next patch in my API versioning saga: https://codereview.appspot.com/97630045
[09:09] <dimitern> jam, looking
[09:11]  * jam takes his dog to the kennel for the weekend, bb < 1hr
[09:15] <perrito666> morning
[09:18] <voidspace> perrito666: morning
[09:47]  * jam is back
[09:47] <jam> morning perrito666 and voidspace
[09:52] <voidspace> jam: morning
[10:01] <mgz> have I actually got internet right now...
[10:02] <wallyworld_> mgz: yes you have :-) you ok for 1:1?
[10:03] <mgz> now google is responding, I'm there
[10:10] <voidspace> gah, the srvRoot authorizer methods aren't tested
[10:10] <voidspace> I've added a new one
[10:10] <voidspace> so testing it means working out how to test those methods at all
[10:12] <voidspace> unless they're tested elsewhere
[10:20] <voidspace> jam: ping
[10:20] <jam> voidspace: ?
[10:20] <voidspace> jam: state/apiserver/root.go
[10:20] <voidspace> jam: srvRoot represents a client's connection
[10:20] <jam> well, it represents the API
[10:21] <voidspace> jam: and it is the main implementation of the Authenticator interface
[10:21] <jam> for clients or agents
[10:21] <voidspace> jam: the Authenticator methods on it aren't tested directly that I can find
[10:21] <voidspace> and in fact most tests use the FakeAuthorizer
[10:21] <jam> voidspace: I'm pretty sure they are all tested indirectly, but yes, there are no direct tests of srvRoot behavior
[10:21] <voidspace> I've added a (simple) method to this, and the only test is against the FakeAuthorizer (which also now has this method)
[10:22] <jam> voidspace: so things that test the APIServer directly use FakeAuthorizer, but there are a bunch of client-side tests that go end-to-end that have a real srvRoot in the middle.
[10:22] <jam> voidspace: but if you can write some direct tests, I'd be happier to see them.
[10:22] <voidspace> jam: so the only way to make that work would be to create a client that is neither representing a MachineAgent nor a UnitAgent
[10:23] <voidspace> jam: and we struggled to do that as it seemed the way to get the API was "OpenAPIAsMachine"
[10:23] <jam> voidspace: we have 3 types of entities that access the API, Client, MachineAgent and UnitAgent
[10:23] <voidspace> right, but how to get a test client entity wasn't obvious
[10:23] <jam> voidspace: so opening the API as the admin user is not a machine or unit agent
[10:23] <voidspace> ah, ok
[10:24] <jam> voidspace: things that access the "Client" facade are not machine or units either.
[10:24] <dimitern> jam, reviewed
[10:24] <voidspace> if a direct test is preferable (srvRoot is a private type) can you suggest how I would do that or point me at something that gets at it for testing
[10:24] <jam> voidspace: I know of nothing that tests it directly, and I'm working on that right now for some API versioning tests
[10:25] <voidspace> ah right
[10:25] <jam> *I* like to have direct Unit tests of each layer
[10:25] <jam> not everyone felt the same
[10:25] <jam> namely, the people who implemented this the first time
[10:25] <voidspace> yep, me too - it seems wrong to only indirectly test
[10:25] <jam> felt that it was better to test from the actual client code
[10:25] <voidspace> because those tests can be changed or removed as it's not obvious what they're testing
[10:25] <jam> dimitern: thanks
[10:25] <voidspace> unless you add a note
[10:25] <voidspace> it's also not obvious where to go to find them / update them
[10:26] <fwereade> voidspace, yeah, +1 to direct tests
[10:26] <voidspace> well, +1 in theory
[10:26] <fwereade> voidspace, it helps with interface sanity more than anything else I'm aware of
[10:26] <voidspace> private types that are hard to construct make it difficult
[10:26] <voidspace> obviously not built with testability in mind
[10:26] <fwereade> voidspace, +1 also to tiny weeny little packages that don't have internal layers that really need tests but don't have them
[10:30] <jam> voidspace: fwiw I'm currently overhauling srvRoot a *lot* so you may not want to poke at it too much.
[10:32] <voidspace> jam: ok, it's literally a one line method
[10:33] <voidspace> jam: maybe it's not warranted as there's only one use for it - if I see the need again I'll add it
[10:33] <voidspace> jam: and by then it should be easier to test due to your work
[10:47] <jam> sgtm
[10:55] <jam> fwereade: don't forget the team leads call in 5min. If you're available, I have a quick question wrt API that I'd like to run by you (if you can join early)
[11:00] <voidspace> fwereade: in terms of making GetRsyslogConfig bulky, it takes no params
[11:00] <voidspace> fwereade: so is it just a question of renaming to Configs and returning a slice of results?
[11:01] <fwereade> voidspace, shouldn't we be asking for the rsyslog config for ourselves, though,much as we watch the config for ourselves?
[11:01] <jam> dimitern: https://codereview.appspot.com/97570051 implements the "Does this Facade return the exact type I expected"
[11:01] <voidspace> fwereade: no, units and state servers all need to log to "all the state servers"
[11:02] <voidspace> fwereade: so we want "the global config for everything" in all cases
[11:02] <jam> voidspace: fwiw ^^ removes some of the coupling so you can create one with apiserver.TestingSrvRoot(State) which would let you write the tests you wanted. (once all this stuff lands)
[11:02] <voidspace> jam: ah, cool
[11:02] <fwereade> voidspace, the answers for "where should machine 7 log to" and "where should machine 9 log to" may happen to always be the same
[11:03] <fwereade> voidspace, but I think they're different questions
[11:03] <fwereade> voidspace, and I think it's a bit nicer to keep the object of the sentence implied by the API call explicit ratherthan implicit in the connection
[11:03] <fwereade> voidspace, any evidence of sanity there?
[11:03] <voidspace> fwereade: it sounds like unnecessary complexity in the name of trying to be consistent
[11:04] <voidspace> fwereade: the *explicit task* we are achieving is "make sure everything logs to all the state servers"
[11:04] <voidspace> that's the goal of HA - present a single world view with redundancy
[11:05] <voidspace> so to provide an api that looks like we could have multiple world views actually breaks that model
[11:05] <voidspace> (conceptually)
[11:05] <fwereade> voidspace, it's more about (1), yes, consistency, but (2) trying to make it easy to build the API out of easily composable chunks: and methods with implicit params don't really help there
[11:05] <fwereade> voidspace, I may have to think about that for a mo, but I'm not sure I agree
[11:06] <voidspace> I defer to you of course, but I'm a bit wary of the "make all API calls bulk calls even when not appropriate" approach
[11:06] <voidspace> I'd rather we think about whether it makes sense for each endpoint (and yes bearing the future in mind because API churn is a pain)
[11:06] <voidspace> but I still defer to you :-)
[11:07] <voidspace> but we *want* a single logging endpoint for the user - and we want HA to provide redundancy for that *behind the scenes*
[11:07] <dimitern> jam, thanks, will look in a bit
[11:07] <voidspace> so it seems to me that the model here is a single call
[11:07] <fwereade> voidspace, it is certainly less compelling than it originally was, because at long last we're getting api versioning, so the cost and complexity of changing an API is much smaller
[11:07] <fwereade> voidspace, there are 2 questions in play though
[11:08] <voidspace> versioning isn't a silver bullet - you still have to maintain the obsolete version, which can be a real nuisance
[11:08] <voidspace> so better to get it right :-)
[11:08] <fwereade> voidspace, one is, should inform the server who's sending the logs when we ask where they should be sent, and I think that's a yes
[11:09] <voidspace> "should (?) inform the server" ?
[11:09] <fwereade> voidspace, "we" or "the client" or whoever
[11:10] <fwereade> voidspace, "where do all logs go always" != "where do $entity's logs go", even if the answers are currently the same
[11:10] <voidspace> that's the one I'm disputing I think - we explicitly want all logs to go to the same place
[11:10] <voidspace> doorbell - back in 2
[11:11] <wwitzel3_> hello
[11:11] <voidspace> wwitzel3: hello
[11:12] <fwereade> voidspace, the other is "is the cost/benefit of mandating all-bulk calls likely to pay off" and I *think* they actually are: the consistency argument is stronger than you might think, because people do what they see us doing already; and IMO enough calls are worth bulking that it's a win to provide a consistent API that always allows it even if we don't always use it
[11:12] <voidspace> fwereade: if we start sending different logs to different places, we'll be breaking the HA model - which is, all logs are always available and it doesn't matter which state server you contact
[11:12] <voidspace> fwereade: right, I certainly don't want to fight strongly on that point
[11:13] <fwereade> voidspace, strawman: additional external logging targets for units of particular services
[11:13] <voidspace> fwereade: so, the args should be a slice of entities and the result a slice of configs?
[11:13] <fwereade> voidspace, yes please
[11:14] <voidspace> fwereade: hmmm...
[11:14] <voidspace> fwereade: ok
[11:14] <fwereade> voidspace, my argument is not that it always makes sense; it's that it often does, and that the bonus from consistency pushes it past the line to just-always-do-this
[11:15] <voidspace> fwereade: ok
[11:53] <voidspace> fwereade: for bulk calls, is the convention that, assuming no "global error" (causing the whole call to fail) happens, you return "result, nil" - where result is a collection (.Results) with an Error field for individual errors
[11:54] <rogpeppe> voidspace: yes
[11:54] <voidspace> so even where this one call with one error, you return nil for the error - but result.Results[0].Error has the real error
[11:54] <voidspace> cool
[11:55] <rogpeppe> jam, fwereade: hiya, i was talking earlier with frankban about moving store out of core, and we think that it's a reasonable principle that nothing outside juju-core imports juju-core's TestBase. does that seem right to you?
[11:56] <fwereade> rogpeppe, agreed; but ideally we'd be moving stuff to github.com/juju/testing rather than duping or  dropping functionality
[11:56] <rogpeppe> fwereade: yup
[11:56] <fwereade> rogpeppe, perfect
[11:56] <rogpeppe> fwereade: but TestBase in particular has very core-specific functionality
[11:57] <rogpeppe> fwereade: but packages like filetesting will move too
[11:57] <fwereade> rogpeppe, yep, +1 to that
[11:58] <jam> rogpeppe: in general we'd rather have things not depend on code inside juju-core, and have things nicely pulled out into smaller modules. I'd be willing to be a bit pragmatic about it
[11:59] <rogpeppe> jam: i hope we can be good about it. in particular, i very much hope that we can make a strictly non-cyclic dependency graph between repositories.
[12:07] <jam> fwereade: https://codereview.appspot.com/100460045/ is the one patch along the way that didn't actually get an LGTM, I think I've finished the work on it that I wanted to do.
[12:07] <jam> dimitern: ^^ if you want to give that a look as well
[12:08] <jam> it is *mostly* a mechanical application of the previous patches.
[12:08] <voidspace> rogpeppe: I didn't notice that reply came from you
[12:08] <voidspace> rogpeppe: thanks, and hi
[12:08] <rogpeppe> voidspace: hiya :-)
[12:09] <perrito666> hey rogpeppe wb
[12:09] <rogpeppe> perrito666: ta!
[12:10] <jam> fwereade: https://codereview.appspot.com/97630045/ is a followup that Dimiter reviewed, and https://codereview.appspot.com/97570051/ is one that needs reveiew
[12:18] <dimitern> jam, reviewed https://codereview.appspot.com/97570051/
[12:18] <jam> dimitern: thanks
[12:19]  * perrito666 wonders why ctrl+w doesnt work on the screen he is looking at instead of the one with focus
[12:19] <voidspace> perrito666: heh, I do that all the time
[12:38] <voidspace> hah, I wondered why I suddenly had all these failures on our rsyslog branch
[12:38] <voidspace> wwitzel3: ping
[12:39] <voidspace> wwitzel3: revision 2755 (most recent one) of your rsyslog branch merges a branch of mine that was a dead end
[12:39] <voidspace> wwitzel3: I restarted the work in a different branch
[12:39] <voidspace> wwitzel3: can you back out that revision?
[12:42] <voidspace> wwitzel3: I have further commits so it's harder for me to do
[12:44] <voidspace> in the meantime
[12:44]  * voidspace lunches
[13:04] <jam> voidspace: "bzr merge -r 2755..2754" should do what you want, fwiw
[13:24] <wwitzel3> voidspace: was eating breakfast and getting Jessa off to work, ping me when you're back, I don't even see that revision on my branch of rsyslog-api
[13:32] <tasdomas> fwereade, hi
[13:33] <tasdomas> fwereade, I've started working on moving juju-core/cmd to a separate package (github.com/juju/cmd probably) - what is the process of creating a new juju repo on github?
[13:51] <fwereade> tasdomas, I'm a bit surprised by cmd... oh, yeah, the store commands use it now
[13:51] <fwereade> tasdomas, are you in the team on github?
[13:57] <voidspace> wwitzel3: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~wwitzel3/juju-core/009-ha-rsyslog-api/revision/2755
[13:58] <voidspace> wwitzel3: is that not your branch? https://code.launchpad.net/~wwitzel3/juju-core/009-ha-rsyslog-api
[13:58] <wwitzel3> voidspace: huh, I just don't see it locally I guess
[13:58] <voidspace> heh
[13:59] <voidspace> wwitzel3: the command that jam gave is the one you should run
[13:59] <wwitzel3> voidspace: it is indeed my branch, but locally when I look at the log, I see 2747 as the latest
[13:59] <voidspace> it would be more painful for me
[13:59] <voidspace> hah
[14:01] <wwitzel3> voidspace: ok, try now? ..
[14:01] <wwitzel3> not sure if I should cross my fingers or plug my ears
[14:01] <wwitzel3> both? ..
[14:02] <voidspace> hah
[14:03] <voidspace> wwitzel3: now I see the latest revision as 2747 (!?) but with the offending revision still in it
[14:03] <voidspace> I believe
[14:03] <voidspace> when I merged I got no changes anyway
[14:03] <wwitzel3> ok what is the offending revision # now?
[14:03] <voidspace> 2747
[14:05] <wwitzel3> voidspace: ok, pushed up the revert of that (I hope)
[14:22] <voidspace> wwitzel3: ah, I see what happened I think
[14:23] <voidspace> wwitzel3: you intended to merge in my changes removing the obsolete check that Port and CACert had changed
[14:23] <voidspace> wwitzel3: this was the branch that should have been merged
[14:23] <voidspace> https://code.launchpad.net/~mfoord/juju-core/ha-rsyslog-shortcut-removal/+merge/220105
[14:24] <voidspace> wwitzel3:  lp:~mfoord/juju-core/ha-rsyslog-shortcut-removal
[14:26] <wwitzel3> ok, merged and pushed
[14:29] <voidspace> wwitzel3: and rsyslog worker tests are passing again for me!
[14:29] <voidspace> and I don't think we lost anything...
[14:30] <wwitzel3> great :)
[14:30] <voidspace> hmmm...
[14:30] <voidspace> except this on your branch
[14:30] <voidspace> wwitzel3:
[14:30] <voidspace>     Diff: 12160 lines (+2221/-2600) 262 files modified (has conflicts)
[14:30] <wwitzel3> great
[14:30] <voidspace> wwitzel3: you may need to merge trunk and resolve conflicts
[14:31] <voidspace> :-o
[14:31] <wwitzel3> yep, doing that now
[14:32] <wwitzel3> 11 conflicts encountered.
[14:32] <wwitzel3> awesome
[14:32] <voidspace> weird
[14:32] <voidspace> wwitzel3: files you've not touched you can resolve with --take-other
[14:33] <wwitzel3> well that is handy :)
[14:33] <voidspace> wwitzel3: and in fact, the conflicts are pretty much all in files we've not touched
[14:33] <wwitzel3> voidspace: pushed
[14:33] <voidspace> wwitzel3: thanks
[14:34] <wwitzel3> voidspace: we should pair after this call
[14:34] <voidspace> wwitzel3: ok
[14:37] <voidspace> anyone recognise this error: "missing agent version in environment config"
[14:37] <voidspace> in provider/dummy
[14:38] <voidspace> actually comes from testing.AssertStartInstance
[14:38] <perrito666> voidspace: your config file is being generated without version ?
[14:38] <voidspace> perrito666: sure, but it's from a test
[14:38] <voidspace> sorry, yeah - test failure error
[14:38] <voidspace> ah, never mind
[14:39] <voidspace> I have build failures
[14:39] <wwitzel3> hah
[14:39] <wwitzel3> priorities
[14:39] <wwitzel3> :P
[14:39] <voidspace> in the openstack provider
[14:40] <voidspace> I wonder if dependencies.tsv wasn't updated on trunk
[14:41] <voidspace> if I merge from trunk it says nothing to do
[14:42] <voidspace> but if I switch to trunk and run godeps it *does* update some dependencies
[14:42] <voidspace> wwitzel3: you still have an 11000 line diff
[14:42] <voidspace> wwitzel3: I think you somehow collapsed a bunch of changes into that single revision
[14:43] <voidspace> or something
[14:43] <voidspace> somehow our branch has undone a load of changes
[14:43] <voidspace> goddammit
[14:44] <wwitzel3> well, I can undo the merge I did earlier
[14:44] <wwitzel3> where I jumped back a revision
[14:44] <voidspace> right, that would bring back the unwanted changes from my branch
[14:45] <voidspace> let's look at the revision history and see if we can work out where we want to go back to
[14:46] <voidspace> wwitzel3: it seems like you want to go back to 2746 (which I thought was what you'd done previously)
[14:46] <voidspace> and then merge trunk in
[14:46] <voidspace> which should leave just our changes
[14:49] <voidspace> ah
[14:50] <voidspace> so the problem is that trunk has already been merged into your branch
[14:50] <voidspace> so the reverse merge *undoes* trunk revisions
[14:50] <voidspace> merging trunk again says "Nothing to do" because it sees those revisions in the merge history
[14:50] <voidspace> mgz: ping
[14:51] <dimitern> niemeyer, hey
[14:51] <niemeyer> dimitern: Heya
[14:51] <dimitern> niemeyer, I fixed what we discussed in https://codereview.appspot.com/98430044/, can you please take a look if it's good to land?
[14:52] <niemeyer> dimitern: Will do, thanks
[14:54] <bodie_> fwereade / others, looks like all the libs in question are apache2-licensed in their source code but LICEN(S|C)E[.txt] isn't included in the two deps for gojsonschema.  should I open MRs or is it sufficient to have the license in the files themselves?
[14:54] <voidspace> wwitzel3: I'm going to try and fix it by branching trunk and merging from revision 2747 of your branch
[14:54] <wwitzel3> voidspace: ok
[14:54] <voidspace> wwitzel3: that *seems* to have worked
[14:55] <voidspace> wwitzel3: we may need to abandon your one - the history seems to be irrevocably screwed now (?)
[14:56] <voidspace> wwitzel3: I'm in moonstone by the way
[14:56] <niemeyer> dimitern: Does it make sense to have the same domain name for different private IPs?
[14:57] <niemeyer> dimitern: Ah, nevermind
[14:57] <niemeyer> dimitern: The loop breaks out on the first entry
[14:57] <dimitern> niemeyer, right
[14:57] <niemeyer> dimitern: Okay, LGTM
[14:57] <dimitern> niemeyer, thanks!
[14:59] <voidspace> wwitzel3: https://code.launchpad.net/~mfoord/juju-core/ha-rsyslog-good/+merge/220667
[15:06] <voidspace> wwitzel3: https://code.launchpad.net/~mfoord/juju-core/ha-rsyslog-good/+merge/220669
[15:07] <wwitzel3> voidspace: second link looks right
[15:09] <bodie_> someone help me understand what fwereade means by "d" in these comments? https://codereview.appspot.com/94540044/diff/60001/charm/actions_test.go
[15:10] <perrito666> bodie_: delete
[15:15] <voidspace> wwitzel3: https://code.launchpad.net/~mfoord/juju-core/ha-rsyslog-2/+merge/220603
[15:17] <mgz> voidspace: hey, sorry missed ping earlier
[15:17] <bodie_> o/ mgz
[15:17] <mgz> hey bodie
[15:18] <voidspace> mgz: we have a screwed bazaar branch that we can't recover
[15:18] <voidspace> mgz: we've mostly worked round it now and are abandoning the branch
[15:18] <voidspace> mgz: but I thought you might be able to help
[15:18] <mgz> voidspace: fallback is just pull out the changes in the tree into a fresh branch normally
[15:19] <voidspace> mgz: right, that's what I'm doing
[15:19] <voidspace> mgz: except it's changes from three different branches we had consolidated
[15:19] <voidspace> and it was the consolidation that screwed us
[15:19] <mgz> what fun
[15:19] <voidspace> and then unfortunately there was a merge back the other way - making it hard to back out changes without also reverting a load of trunk changes
[15:19] <voidspace> which is what we did
[15:19] <voidspace> and why we're screwed
[15:20] <voidspace> we reverted 11000 lines of changes from trunk
[15:20] <voidspace> and the history shows those changes as already merged - so we can't bring them back again
[15:20] <wwitzel3> they probably weren't needed anyway
[15:20] <voidspace> yeah, probably
[15:24] <voidspace> wwitzel3: this is now the full consolidated branch
[15:24] <voidspace> https://code.launchpad.net/~mfoord/juju-core/ha-rsyslog-good/+merge/220669
[15:26] <mgz> voidspace: losing the history shouldn't matter much, as we're going to be losing history anyway next week
[15:26] <voidspace> mgz: really, we're just dumping into github rather than converting the repo?
[15:26] <hazmat> mgz, losing history?
[15:26] <hazmat> what?
[15:27] <hazmat> easy to convert with history
[15:27] <mgz> voidspace: we're converting, but that's a lossy conversion
[15:27] <voidspace> oh, ok
[15:27] <voidspace> we'll just pretend it's git's fault
[15:27] <voidspace> I mean, I'm sure nothing like this will ever happen once we're using git
[15:28] <voidspace> git is not *at all* renowned for mangling repos into completely unusable states
[15:28] <perrito666> voidspace: nope, git users are though
[15:28] <sinzui> voidspace, perrito666, bodie_ is anyone planning to land a branch in the next hour? I want to take CI offline to upgrade how it builds test packages
[15:29] <perrito666> sinzui: nope
[15:29] <jcw4_> sinzui I'm hoping to in a couple hours
[15:29] <bodie_> hoping to get one in asap, but struggling a little with tests right now.  I can push it back
[15:29] <voidspace> perrito666: git will happily chainsaw your repo into an unusable mess
[15:30] <voidspace> and smile whilst doing it
[15:30] <voidspace> sinzui: an hour should be fine
[15:30] <perrito666> voidspace: but will blame me
[15:30] <perrito666> so technically its my fault
[15:30] <voidspace> sure...
[15:30] <voidspace> I'll happily blame you too if you like :-D
[15:31] <sinzui> bodie_, does the landing bot hate you?
[15:31] <perrito666> voidspace: usually when I use git, which I like, I feel like barely above using diff+patch+ftp
[15:31] <bodie_> I assume I would know if it did
[15:31] <voidspace> heh
[15:31] <bodie_> and I don't, so it must not
[15:31] <voidspace> fwereade: we've created a new CL as we managed to "break" the other one
[15:31] <voidspace> fwereade: https://codereview.appspot.com/91630045/
[15:32] <voidspace> fwereade: that addresses your previous review comments as discussed (I believe)
[15:48] <bodie_> jcw4, mgz, I'm not certain I'll be able to have a voice session at 1600 -- michelle will be getting home any minute now and i failed to communicate the plan to her so I might have to do text this time
[15:49] <jcw4_> I think we're preferring IRC right now anyway
[15:49] <mgz> that's fine
[15:49] <jcw4_> #jujuskunkworks to reduce the noise here though?
[15:49] <mgz> lets
[16:48] <jcw4> fwereade: I'm assuming this is what you wanted with the err handling and return of newActionID: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~johnweldon4/juju-core/action/view/head:/state/unit.go#L1343
[16:49] <voidspace> mgz: ping
[16:52] <fwereade> jcw4, yeah, looks good
[16:52] <jcw4> fwereade: ta
[16:53] <voidspace> fwereade: so I assume that when we release 1.20, what is currently "upgrades/steps118.go" will be changed to "upgrades/steps120.go"
[16:54] <bodie_> fwereade, https://codereview.appspot.com/94540044
[16:54] <bodie_> hopefully this is satisfactory :)
[16:55] <bodie_> I made a few tweaks to the regexp that I'd not caught until I added the param name tests you'd requested
[16:55] <fwereade> voidspace, no? those are needed for anything pre-1.18 to be valid for 1.18; they don't need to be run again from 1.18 to 1.20; others might, and they'd be 1.20 ones (or I guess 1.19 ones, I hope we'd discover them earlier than 1.20...)
[16:56] <mgz> voidspace: hey
[16:57] <voidspace> fwereade: but we don't have steps116.go, I thought we only supported 1.18  -> 1.20
[16:57] <voidspace> mgz: hi, I was going to ask what I'm asking will
[16:57] <bodie_> right -- so the deps I added with gojsonschema have apache v2 license in the source files but not repos themselves
[16:58] <voidspace> I'd better my changes
[16:58] <bodie_> do I need to get the author to put LICENSE.txt in the repos or are we good?
[16:58] <voidspace> *revert my changes
[17:10] <fwereade> voidspace, the idea is that we *should* be able to support arbitrary upgrades, and that we run them from src->dst in order
[17:10] <coreycb> I have a local provider deployment of mysql to kvm that hangs in pending state.  any idea if that is fixed by bug 1317197?
[17:10] <_mup_> Bug #1317197: juju deployed services to lxc containers stuck in pending <oil> <juju-core:Fix Committed by axwalk> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1317197>
[17:10] <voidspace> fwereade: ok, I'll leave the syslog port upgrade step in place
[17:11] <coreycb> sinzui, maybe you know ^
[17:13] <sinzui> coreycb, sorry, the bug is unrelated. That bug is about a lock dir used when working with lxc templates
[17:15] <coreycb> sinzui, ok need a bug for my issue?
[17:17] <sinzui> coreycb, common reasons for localhosts stuck in pending is a bad cloud image cache. I don't know how kvm manages that
[17:17] <sinzui> coreycb, I think we do need a bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bugs?field.tag=kvm doesn't describe the issue
[17:30] <jcw4> fwereade, or mgz : if you get a chance to review -- https://codereview.appspot.com/98260043/
[17:30] <coreycb> sinzui, thanks, I opened bug 1322281
[17:30] <_mup_> Bug #1322281:  local provider deployment of mysql to kvm hangs in pending state <juju-core:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1322281>
[17:30] <sinzui> thank you
[17:37] <natefinch> Ahh, there's nothing like starting the day at 4am with a puking 11 month old.
[17:38] <rick_h_> natefinch: all uphill from here
[17:38] <natefinch> haha, yeah
[17:40] <wwitzel3> I've ended the night with a puking 30 year old before, if that makes you feel any better :P
[17:40] <rick_h_> wwitzel3: yourself doesn't count :P
[17:41] <wwitzel3> I'd puke, thats fiscally irresponsible
[17:41] <wwitzel3> I don't
[17:41] <jcw4> wwitzel3: I don't know... with a 30 yro you can laugh at them
[17:42] <jcw4> and... walk awy
[17:42] <wwitzel3> I feel like you can laugh at an 11 month old too, doubt they would remember
[17:42] <jcw4> haha
[17:42] <wwitzel3> oh, yeah, well the walk away part .. not so much
[17:43] <natefinch> At least I didn't have to catch her puke in my hands this time, that was nice.
[17:44] <wwitzel3> I see as a parent your definition of nice has to change slightly
[17:44] <natefinch> lol yup
[17:44] <jcw4> haha yep
[17:51] <voidspace> natefinch: morning
[17:52] <natefinch> voidspace: morning :)
[17:54] <voidspace> hmmm... so adding an attribute to the slice of immutableAttributes in config.go isn't sufficient to make it actually immutable
[17:54] <voidspace> I thought that was a bit hopeful
[17:54] <voidspace> ah, wait
[17:54] <voidspace> I didn't go install first
[17:55] <voidspace> maybe it still is
[17:55] <voidspace> and it looks like it is
[17:56] <voidspace> ERROR cannot change syslog-port from 6514 to 3030
[17:56] <voidspace> that's what I wanted :-)
[17:56] <natefinch> nice
[17:56] <voidspace> ship it!
[17:57] <voidspace> I should probably test it
[17:57] <bodie_> rogpeppe, you around?
[17:57] <voidspace> but that can wait until the morning
[17:57] <voidspace> g'night all
[17:57] <voidspace> EOD
[17:57] <bodie_> o/
[18:56] <alexisb> natefinch, ping
[18:56] <natefinch> alexisb: howdy
[18:56] <alexisb> given you are the lead that is awake :)
[18:57] <natefinch> heh
[18:57] <alexisb> can you take a look at 2 bugs real fast and get them to triaged state
[18:57] <alexisb> most likely they are both critical given they are blocking teams but I want someone to take a quick look first
[18:58] <alexisb> 1322302 and 1322281
[18:58] <natefinch> ok
[18:58] <alexisb> thanks
[18:58] <bodie_> natefinch, does that mean you can give some input on whether we should use a dep of relatively unknown quality from github?  rogpeppe indicated some concern
[18:58] <natefinch> bodie_:
[18:58] <natefinch> bodie_: er yep
[18:58] <natefinch> bodie_: what's the repo?
[18:59] <bodie_> https://github.com/xeipuuv/gojsonschema
[18:59] <bodie_> AFAIK, it's the go-to JSON-Schema implementation for Go -- the only other github repo for gojsonschema is a fork of it which was recently merged
[18:59] <bodie_> I could loop you into the MR email thread if you'd like
[18:59] <natefinch> bodie_: I think I saw part of it at leasty
[19:00] <bodie_> about licensing, right
[19:00] <bodie_> I should let you take care of what alexisb wanted, but let me know if you have any input
[19:00] <natefinch> bodie_: I'll take a look at it.
[19:20] <natefinch> alexisb: I made the first one high, since slow is not the same as "doesn't work"
[19:20] <natefinch> alexisb: the second one is "doesn't work" so I made it critical
[19:20] <natefinch> alexisb: both need investigation by dev or QA to confirm it's reproducible, though
[19:21] <alexisb> natefinch, thank you, can you make sure to comment on any needs that block forward progress from juju-core in the bug?
[19:28] <natefinch> alexisb: sure
[19:59] <perrito666> natefinch: here is the everybody is happy patch https://codereview.appspot.com/92320043
[20:01] <natefinch> perrito666: nice
[21:22] <waigani> morning all
[21:23] <waigani> how do you find the current juju user?
[21:34] <arosales> wallyworld_: et'all are folks seeing issues on HP Cloud
[21:34] <arosales> mbruzek: is seeing hex output in juju status
[21:34] <wallyworld_> oh really? 1.18.3?
[21:35] <arosales> wallyworld_:  1.19.3 I think
[21:35] <mbruzek> I am seeing some very strange output
[21:35] <mbruzek> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7503161/
[21:35] <mbruzek> juju status
[21:36] <wallyworld_> ok, so crappy error message :-( looks like the security group quota may have been exceeded perhaps
[21:36] <wallyworld_> let me have a look to see if i can figure it out
[21:40] <wallyworld_> mbruzek: so, looking at the hp console, it seems your machine 1 reports an " Error(spawning) "
[21:40] <wallyworld_> so at first glance it looks like juju tried to start the machine and got an error back from hp cloud
[21:40] <wallyworld_> and reported the error in juju status but in a crappy way
[21:41] <wallyworld_> you could try destroying the machine in juju
[21:41] <mbruzek> wallyworld_, I will do that now
[21:41] <wallyworld_> and possibly manually deleting from hp cloud
[21:41] <wallyworld_> perhaps file a bug about the poor error message
[21:42] <mbruzek> wallyworld_, this is my second time seeing these problems, I believe they will persist after I destroy-environment and re-bootstrap
[21:43] <wallyworld_> mbruzek: it seem though that some machines start ok?
[21:43] <mbruzek> correct, but there always seems to be one that does not.
[21:43] <wallyworld_> i tried clicking on the console log in the hp cloud admin page page it just hung
[21:43] <mbruzek> $ juju destroy-machine 1
[21:43] <mbruzek> ERROR no machines were destroyed: machine 1 has unit "cassandra/0" assigned
[21:43] <mbruzek> Do I need to --force?
[21:44] <wallyworld_> you either need to destroy the unit/service first or i think there's now a --force option?
[21:44] <wallyworld_> perhaps the all-machine.log on the start server will give clues
[21:45] <wallyworld_> you could juju debug-log in another terminal window as you try and deploy charms
[21:45] <wallyworld_> and then see what it says if the machine provisioning on the cloud fails
[21:45] <wallyworld_> not start server, state server
[21:46] <wallyworld_> arosales: you meeting with the joyent folks today?
[21:47] <mbruzek> wallyworld_, I already had juju debug-log running in another window!
[21:47] <wallyworld_> what did it say as machine 1 failed to start?
[21:47] <wallyworld_> pastebin it if you want
[21:50] <arosales> wallyworld_: they defered till next wed
[21:50] <mbruzek> Is there somewhere all-machine.log is on my system?  I am cut and pasting this to pastebin and it is not very fast
[21:50] <arosales> wallyworld_: any traction on your pull requests?
[21:50] <wallyworld_> arosales: no :-(, still pending. we really need them merged
[21:50] <wallyworld_> mbruzek: the log file is on the state server
[21:51] <mbruzek> wallyworld_, Here is the top of the juju debug-log command after I started the deployement
[21:51] <mbruzek> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/7503212/
[21:51] <arosales> wallyworld_: ugh. ok I'll ping again. Really they shouldn't have to meet with me to get the pull request merged. I thought they were taking a look.
[21:51] <mbruzek> wallyworld_, machine-0: 2014-05-22 19:48:53 ERROR juju.provisioner provisioner_task.go:417 cannot start instance for ma
[21:51] <mbruzek> chine "1": cannot run instance: failed to run a server with nova.RunServerOpts
[21:52] <wallyworld_> arosales: part of the issue is that the ppc tests keep timing out because of the issue, and we are under prssure to get those sorted out
[21:52] <wallyworld_> arosales: maybe they are looking at them :-) i'll check later today to see if they're still pending
[21:53] <wallyworld_> mbruzek: so, it's saying that the cloud has reported an error starting the instance but doesn't really say what the error is (eg error code)
[21:55] <arosales> wallyworld_: ok I'll add that into my ping.
[21:55] <wallyworld_> thank you :-)
[21:57] <wallyworld_> mbruzek: did you just destory environment?
[21:57] <mbruzek> wallyworld_, Yes I wanted to try a simpler case.
[21:58] <wallyworld_> the console shows just a state server machine now which is green, but also an old machine 1
[21:58] <wallyworld_> and i think that's the issue
[21:58] <wallyworld_> the old machine 1 isn't getting removed because it's broken
[21:58] <mbruzek> I am on the hpconsole but not seeing that information what page are you on?
[21:58] <wallyworld_> https://console.hpcloud.com/compute/az-1_region-a_geo-1/servers
[21:58] <wallyworld_> if the old machine 1 is there, juju can't start another one with the same name
[21:59] <mbruzek> OK I see
[21:59] <wallyworld_> that would be a logical explanation for the error
[21:59] <mbruzek> Yes
[21:59] <mbruzek> I just bootstrapped so I should only have 1 server out there.  Let me destroy and clean that one up manually
[21:59] <wallyworld_> yep, i reckon that will solve your issue (i hope)
[22:00] <arosales> wallyworld_: pinged again re joyent pull requests
[22:00] <wallyworld_> awesome, thanks
[22:07] <mbruzek> wallyworld_, Terminating juju-hp-mbruzek-machine-1 seems to have done the trick.  My deployment is looking to be in better shape.
[22:08] <wallyworld_> great :-)
[22:08] <wallyworld_> my guess there was an error starting it in the first place and hence a subsequent desroy env couldn't kill it
[22:08] <mbruzek> I agree
[22:13] <wallyworld_> hazmat: you around?
[22:16] <hazmat> wallyworld_, am now
[22:16] <hazmat> waigani, what's up
[22:16] <waigani> hazmat: hey :)
[22:16] <hazmat> doh.
[22:16] <hazmat> :-)
[22:17] <waigani> ah you wanted wallyworld_
[22:17] <wallyworld_> hazmat: with dan's bug report about lxc staying in pending a long time - that's just because the first machine has to download the lxc image
[22:17] <hazmat> wallyworld_, hmm..
[22:17] <wallyworld_> we added cloning for them so the next one started fast
[22:17] <hazmat> wallyworld_, so let me pose it differently
[22:17] <hazmat> i agree though that's possibly the primary issue there
[22:18] <wallyworld_> we could do something like allow juju to copy an image across at bootstrap
[22:18] <hazmat> wallyworld_, if i have containers already running (via manual).. it still takes up to a minute for them to show as started
[22:18] <hazmat> during which they go through various odd permutations in status agent-state: (started)
[22:18] <wallyworld_> ok, that's a bit different
[22:18] <hazmat> it feels like the pinger/heartbeat is a bit schizo there
[22:19] <wallyworld_> that seems like a sepaate but legitimate issue
[22:19] <hazmat> wallyworld_, the fix there would be lxc template hooks respecting proxy settings
[22:19] <hazmat> re dan's issue
[22:19] <hazmat> that would decrease the time
[22:19] <hazmat> alternatively downloading the image while giving feedback to the user
[22:19] <wallyworld_> adding feedback is on the todo list
[22:20] <hazmat> ie.. we don't call out 'install' hook running.. we just leave things in pending
[22:20] <wallyworld_> i'm not sure if fetching the template honours the proxy settings
[22:20] <wallyworld_> you think it doesn't?
[22:20] <hazmat> its just doing a wget, but not sure the env variables propagate
[22:20] <hazmat> from juju's invocation
[22:20] <wallyworld_> ok, we can check that
[22:21] <wallyworld_> there's no good short term soluation though sadly
[22:21] <wallyworld_> apart from the proxy thing
[22:22] <hazmat> wallyworld_, any feedback to the user via status would be helpful to users re long running ops
[22:22] <wallyworld_> agree +100, but it's not necessarily trivial, it's on the todo list for sure
[22:22] <hazmat> ack
[22:23] <wallyworld_> i hope that dan's group can bear the pain of the initial download and use cloning for speedier deployment for the thers
[22:23] <wallyworld_> others
[22:23] <wallyworld_> i'll comment on the bug
[22:24] <wallyworld_> hazmat: seems also bug 1322281 which was just raised is the same thing
[22:24] <_mup_> Bug #1322281:  local provider deployment of mysql to kvm hangs in pending state <cloud-installer> <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1322281>
[22:24] <wallyworld_> "hangs" might mean slow template download
[22:25] <wallyworld_> or no http egress except via proxy perhaps
[22:25] <wallyworld_> so i think if we check the proxy thing, that may be what we can do short term
[22:25] <wallyworld_> i'm sort a hoping we do not currently use the proxy settings so we have something to fix
[22:28] <hazmat> wallyworld_, its more than proxy.. its respect  a cache
[22:28]  * wallyworld_ -> breakfast bbiab
[22:28] <hazmat> although typically the same
[22:28] <hazmat> most of thse are orange boxes
[22:28] <wallyworld_> which cache?
[22:28] <wallyworld_> a squid cache?
[22:28] <wallyworld_> which i guess the proxy would point to
[22:28] <hazmat> wallyworld_, yeah.. squid-deb-proxy cache.. also orange boxes have full archive mirrors
[22:29] <hazmat> which we don't configure/use
[22:29] <wallyworld_> ok, i think we can/should add in proxy support for getting template
[22:29] <wallyworld_> that should be a simple fix
[22:29] <hazmat> sounds good
[22:29] <wallyworld_> thanks for the input
[22:30] <wallyworld_> now i am really off to eat and caffeinate myself
[23:20] <wallyworld_> hazmat: i've done some checking. the lxc-create which calls wget is invoked via golang's exec.Command(). this does pass through env vars like http_proxy. so obstently, if they were to set http-proxy and /or apt-htty-proxy in their env config, those should be passed through and used when the template is fetched
[23:21] <wallyworld_> do you know if they set http-proxy in their env?
[23:23] <hazmat> wallyworld_, talking to kirkland atm about setting up a transparent proxy on the orangebox, so everything hits the proxy cache.
[23:23] <hazmat> wallyworld_, i've heard different reports from different folks,  i don't have a solid baseline for analysis
[23:23] <wallyworld_> hazmat: great, so i hope/expect that will solve the bug
[23:23] <wallyworld_> can you let me know how you get on?
[23:23] <wallyworld_> so i can schedule juju work if needed
[23:24] <wallyworld_> even without a transparent cache, setting http-proxy in env config should work


 @ScardracS [I know, sadly. I have tried once to compile it 😅], If you follow the steps in readme it works fine. I did that recently. It only takes long the first time building the library. Then only clickable is long but ok. But a lot of code... 🤓
 Actually I can't compile anything as I'm installing Gentoo 😂
[05:05] <ubptgbot> Rizki Byson was added by: Rizki Byson
[05:13] <ubptgbot> <Rizki Byson> Moshi moshi
[05:13] <ubptgbot> <Rizki Byson> Anyone use Ubuntu touch on whyred here?
 @Rizki Byson [Anyone use Ubuntu touch on whyred here?], Have you searched back through the chat? There are multiple mentions of whyred
 @SomeIrrelevantPerson0000 [When you ask for help on porting your Nexus 5x, then get left on read. Then just …], Have you searched back through the chat? There are multiple mentions of Nexus 5x
 I have installed Anbox on my XperiaX running UBports but for example the email app crashes every time I try to open an email. Also funny is that after some use I get duplicates of the app icons. Not sure how to debug these and if they are UBports or Anbox bugs... Anyway, I'm very glad to see advances in the development of both of these tech
[06:23] <ubptgbot> nologies.
 @alera_on [<reply to media>], I dont see any Problem with that ^^
 Is there a way to restart the Anbox "layer" without rebooting? … Would be handy if there was, like on Sailfish you can restart the Alien Dalvik from system tools...
[06:48] <ubptgbot> mridulganga was added by: mridulganga
 @SomeIrrelevantPerson0000 [When you ask for help on porting your Nexus 5x, then get left on read. Then just …], Did you ask in @Halium group? Several people tried 5X and gave it up as a hopeless task. Understandable if people don't want to get stuck in that glue
 @cichy1173 [Hello. I Have OnePlus One with Ubuntu Touch.  … I want to change version from stab …], It is easy to switch channel after install. It doesn't matter which you choose in installer
 @Flohack [I dont see any Problem with that ^^], Thanks. 👍
[09:37] <ubptgbot> Waterlion was added by: Waterlion
 Good day! Could you add the Sony Xperia Z (C6603) to the list of supported devices? I won't able to create an installer because I don't understand anything about it. You can also use Teamviewer if you prefer 🙏
 in system settings -> Accounts -> Nextcloud -> URL, I get invalid URL error when I try to add my nextcloud instance. How can I debug what is the issue?
 @alera_on [<reply to media>], Nice one
 @mrcyjanek [Nice one], Thanks.
 How is it possible to turn down the volume when a call is in progress on the Sony Xperia X?  When I press the volume up/down buttons it doesnt seem to have any effect.
 @wayneTBT [How is it possible to turn down the volume when a call is in progress on the Son …], I have same issue on op6t
 @mrcyjanek [I have same issue on op6t], Ok, interesting.  Thanks for clarifying.
[10:52] <ubptgbot> Jinosh was added by: Jinosh
 Hi friends
 I am a OnePlus 3T user
 I have a doubt
 Can I dual boot UB touck with Android 10?
 Hello guys
 Where can I get Mobian/Debian for my freshly arrived PinePhone?
 @Jinosh [Can I dual boot UB touck with Android 10?], I don't think dual booting is supported. 😔
 @floop2 [I don't think dual booting is supported. 😔], Oh no
 @Youriinho [Where can I get Mobian/Debian for my freshly arrived PinePhone?], Maybe try @pinephone
 @Jinosh [Can I dual boot UB touck with Android 10?], Can anyone confirm this please?
 Probably not supported. Unless you have a boot loader that supports dual booting. I remember the Nexus 5 Had one.
[12:46] <ubptgbot> Bigtymer110 was added by: Bigtymer110
 @ineverknowwhatnametouse [Probably not supported. Unless you have a boot loader that supports dual booting …], still not supported by UT, even if you manage to get it working for boot
[13:16] <ubptgbot> fnigi was added by: fnigi
[13:21] <ubptgbot> rikhodipukulinwarga was added by: rikhodipukulinwarga
 @Jinosh [Can anyone confirm this please?], As people said, not supported. However, after having installed UBTouch, you can flash TWRP on your phone and backup/restore UBTouch as for an Android rom. … I did it on my Nexus 5, swapping from UBTouch to previous Android installation. … Only downsides, /data/media can't be shared. UBTouch won
[13:27] <ubptgbot> 't access Android data such as pictures, etc... And with TWRP, you won't be able to update UBTouch. You'll have to flash official UBTouch recovery in case of an update, then flash TWRP back.
 This is all DIY, but at least helps you switching from one OS to another if you wanna test.
 Be noted that for Halium UBTouch based devices, you may not be able to do that.
[13:29] <ubptgbot> Abdan_fitra_mahesya was added by: Abdan_fitra_mahesya
 But I think OP3(T) are natively supported by UBTouch and don't require to be treblized.
 @Jinosh [Can anyone confirm this please?], [Edit] As people said, not supported. However, after having installed UBTouch, you can flash TWRP on your phone and backup/restore UBTouch as for an Android rom. … I did it on my Nexus 5, switching from UBTouch to previous Android installation. … Only downsides, /data/media can't be shared. UBT
[13:30] <ubptgbot> ouch won't access Android data such as pictures, etc... And with TWRP, you won't be able to update UBTouch. You'll have to flash official UBTouch recovery in case of an update, then flash TWRP back.
 (Photo, 960x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/Y6MxMdTA.png
 See, pictures of my TWRP backups ony Nexus 5
 @Anghirrim [But I think OP3(T) are natively supported by UBTouch and don't require to be tre …], Ok
 @Anghirrim [As people said, not supported. However, after having installed UBTouch, you can …], Can you explain this much clearly
 On your OP3(T): … - Make a TWRP backup of your current ROM … - Save all your personal data (including the backup) on your PC … - Flash UBPorts, using the UBPorts installer … - Boot UBPorts and play with it, when ready, reboot. … - Under fastboot mode ==> flash back TWRP … - Make a TWRP backup of UBTouch … - Restore you Android ROM backu
[13:34] <ubptgbot> p
 You'll then have two TWRP backups that you can switch on your phone, as on the picture I've just sent
 Better @Jinosh ? 😁
 @Anghirrim [You'll then have two TWRP backups that you can switch on your phone, as on the p …], But would take more time
 @Jinosh [But would take more time], Yes of course.
 https://youtu.be/25LGxiGdUWU
 Is there any possibility to dual boot like this ?
 An Android os with Ubuntu
 multitom officially supported UT years ago although UT didn't officially support it. If you know how to modify an apk, you can get the latest working version and modify the system image URL from Canonical to ubports
 Is there an app where I can read my Nextcloud News RSS feeds?
 @Jinosh [Is there any possibility to dual boot like this ?], Does OP3T support dual boot? I have an OP3, but never saw it. … If you have a dual boot hack that is working for OP3T, and which is not based on a boot.IMG, why not trying?
 @wayneTBT [Is there an app where I can read my Nextcloud News RSS feeds?], What is nextcloud rss feeds format?
 @Anghirrim [Does OP3T support dual boot? I have an OP3, but never saw it. … If you have a dua …], Yes it supports
 @Kazord [What is nextcloud rss feeds format?], https://github.com/nextcloud/news
 @Jinosh [Yes it supports], OK, seems it has MultiRom as well as DualBoot patcher.
 From that page : newsie
 @Anghirrim [OK, seems it has MultiRom as well as DualBoot patcher.], Yes
 So if you find a way to inject your TWRP backup of UBPorts into MultiRom or the other thing... You're good to go.
 @wayneTBT [Is there an app where I can read my Nextcloud News RSS feeds?], https://open-store.io/app/newsie.martinferretti
 @Javacookies [https://open-store.io/app/newsie.martinferretti], Thank you.
 @Javacookies [https://open-store.io/app/newsie.martinferretti], [Edit] Thank you.  Thats great.
 Sorry for the question, but ... is anyone of you using Ubuntu Unity Remix?  If so, could I pass on an opinion poll to the group here for those who use Remix to respond and leave their opinion?
 @alera_on [Sorry for the question, but ... is anyone of you using Ubuntu Unity Remix?  If s …], please don't post polls here. also Ubuntu Touch is unrelated to Unity 7 (which is what the remix you're talking about uses)
 @dohbee [please don't post polls here. also Ubuntu Touch is unrelated to Unity 7 (which i …], I understand.
 @wayneTBT [How is it possible to turn down the volume when a call is in progress on the Son …], Same here on Xperia. If you find a way to solve this please let me know. Sometimes speaker sound is fine (rare occasions) but mostly it is as if speaking loud is enabled. 😐
 @Danfro [Same here on Xperia. If you find a way to solve this please let me know. Sometim …], yeah, thats the experience Im having on my Xperia also.
[15:30] <ubptgbot> Elias was added by: Elias
 Hello, I'm using UBport on a pinphone, and I can't install tools via "apt" on the command line, UBport prevents users from having control over the "apt" tool, does anyone have a solution to this problem?
 you should use apt only on Libertine
 Or he can wreck his phone if he is certain he knows what he is doing 😁
 Then why is apt installed by default if it can't be used?
 It's used to put together the image, and removing it would be more interesting than just leaving it there.
 It can be used in Libertine. It isn't a desktop but you can hack all you want, as long as you don't expect things to work
 I want to take the risk and have control over the packages, do you have a solution to activate the installation without using the libertine version?
 mount / -o remount,rw
 UTtweaktool
 If you want a UI…
 @Elias [I want to take the risk and have control over the packages, do you have a soluti …], if you really want this, you can resize the root partition and mount it as RW like they said. So far, OTA updates doesn't change the size again so may need to resize once but bigger OTAs may overwrite  changes you've made in the rootfs
 @Stereofont [UTtweaktool], I believe it's not available in the pinephone due to android specific commands used
 @Javacookies [I believe it's not available in the pinephone due to android specific commands u …], Ahah. Thanks
 Okay, thanks for the information, but is there a detailed document that deals with this topic there, on the ubports wiki?
 There is UT on Pinephone group now. See the News channel
 No, because this is not a supported way to run your device. Things could break, and if you install a system update it will erase your changes
 Fwd from UBports News Channel: Hello to all the new "Piners" that have been receiving their PinePhone UBports Community Edition. We welcome you and would like to say that both UBports, Pine64 and also the broader community will benefit from your contributions. … Get into the community conversation on Telegram: https://t.me/utonpine and
[15:45] <ubptgbot>  on both the Pine64 web forum: https://forum.pine64.org/forumdisplay.php?fid=125 … and the UBports forum: https://forums.ubports.com/topic/2403/pinephone … Please also contribute by filing bugs at: https://gitlab.com/ubports/community-ports/pinephone/-/issues … #UBports #Pine64 #UbuntuTouch #PinePhone #Lomiri #Community
 Thanks
[16:08] <ubptgbot> o101o was added by: o101o
[16:14] <ubptgbot> KJoken was added by: KJoken
 O
 He there. I watched the UBports destination linux interview last night and it got me rly excited! Looks like you guys have done a great job moving the project along. I have a  couple of phone questions I'm hoping someone here can help me with. I see that the OnePlus is listed as working but the progress bars isn't full yet. How ready for da
[16:16] <ubptgbot> ily use (meaning cell calls, texts, wifi and cam function) is it? And is it just the OnePlus three or does that include the OnePlus 3t was well.  … Thanks in advance to anyone who can help with my questions and keep up to great work!!! I can hardly wait to get my hands on a phone with a functioning features.
 @o101o [He there. I watched the UBports destination linux interview last night and it go …], also sorry if I'm asking this in the group. Just saw that there is an overflow. should i be asking there? ty again.
 the 3 and 3t can be installed with UT, but there are a few more issues on the 3t as the hardware is slightly different
 i think there's a forum thread about the 3 and 3t
 @dohbee [i think there's a forum thread about the 3 and 3t], got will go have a look? is/are there any other models (you can recommend) that are working well enough for regular use ? I can live without a cam if needed.
 there's unfortunately no devices that have 100% working hardware yet, and various devices may have other issues, because phones are super annoying. so i guess try it and see if it's good enough for you on your device of choice, since it sounds like you already have an op3
 @dohbee [there's unfortunately no devices that have 100% working hardware yet, and variou …], thank i dont but if i can get working as good @MichaelTunnell got his i'd be happy
 How do I install Redmi Note 7 (lavender) Ubuntu touch?
 #notes
 @konusuzadam [How do I install Redmi Note 7 (lavender) Ubuntu touch?], t.me/halium
 @ScardracS [t.me/halium], Thnx
[16:45] <ubptgbot> TheXpieR was added by: TheXpieR
 @o101o [got will go have a look? is/are there any other models (you can recommend) that …], Xperia X and variants
 @Stereofont [Xperia X and variants], thanks! im reading through the 3 and t posts now. Do you think the "Xperia X and variants" are currently a better bet that 1+ 3/3t?
 @o101o [thanks! im reading through the 3 and t posts now. Do you think the "Xperia X and …], I would say equal but Sony ports have a very active team and many more users, though the community uses mostly German
 Time for another plug for photography.ubuntu-touch.io
 @Stereofont [I would say equal but Sony ports have a very active team and many more users, th …], got it. German, eh? Maybe someone will be nice to me and communicate in english. ty for the info.
 There you can see camera samples. Though you said it isn't important for you
 @o101o [got it. German, eh? Maybe someone will be nice to me and communicate in english. …], I mean the UT Sony group is in German. Deepl is your friend though
 Forum discussion about both is in English
 does anyone have any idea how to make a screenshot with the pinphone under UBports?
 @Stereofont [Forum discussion about both is in English], ty
 @Elias [does anyone have any idea how to make a screenshot with the pinphone under UBpor …], Informations are here: https://forums.ubports.com/topic/4442/pinephone-how-to-take-a-screenshot?_=1593106872759
 Looks like I found a phone! Now one last question. On the linked page it says -- Missing: Video recording …     Libertine
 Looks like I found a phone! Now one last question. On the linked page it says -- Missing: Video recording & Libertine. I get the video but what is is Libertine? What does it do and how important is it?  … https://forums.ubports.com/topic/3229/sony-xperia-x-suzu-f5121-f5122
 it is not important for a phone really
 libertine is for running legacy or CLI apps in a container, when using an external display, keyboard, and mouse
 @o101o [Looks like I found a phone! Now one last question. On the linked page it says -- …], You can check whether gstreamer has fixed that
 Hey! Whenever I try to open an webapp, it fails due to permission denied on shm_open(), (log: paste.ubuntu.com/p/YqRR58YGKr) have anybody seen something like this before?
 @dohbee [libertine is for running legacy or CLI apps in a container, when using an extern …], got it. im never gonna do that. so i feel better not that i was worried.
 @Stereofont [You can check whether gstreamer has fixed that], is this something i do before or after i run the install?
 also it says upgrade to android 8 first. then phone says it ships 6 something. Will i need to do anything special or just the normal/standard upgrade process from within android, when it boots up. And thanks again for the help.
 *all the help
[18:24] <ubptgbot> CzarD0mn was added by: CzarD0mn
 @o101o [is this something i do before or after i run the install?], After installing UT on your Xperia you can install an alternative/patched version of camera app that will have video working. Sadly recently that does not persist after a reboot. But eventually this will get merged and installed properly.
 Xperia works fine as a daily driver. If you really need blutooth you check if you desired device supports your bluetooth device. BT is a bit of a gamble.
[18:43] <ubptgbot> Mister_Tails121 was added by: Mister_Tails121
 Hello to all! I want to ask if it is possible to change the account password in Ubuntu Touch
 And one more question, is it possible to change the TTL in ubuntu? And then I tried to use the command: echo "net.ipv4.ip_default_ttl = 65" | sudo tee -a /etc/sysctl.conf. But the terminal complained that I did not have permission to change this file, although in Linux-based systems such a command worked
 Does anyone know how to remove applications under ubports?
 @Mister_Tails121 [And one more question, is it possible to change the TTL in ubuntu? And then I tr …], system is read-only
 @mimecar [system is read-only], Is it possible to get root rights there? Or now you have to survive without rooting
 you can, but that may affect OTA updates.
 @Elias [Does anyone know how to remove applications under ubports?], Open OpenStore. Navigate to the app. Uninstall
 @Stereofont [Open OpenStore. Navigate to the app. Uninstall], Or tap for a few seconds on the app, that will bring the open store page to uninstall as well :)
 or use Utweaktool
 @Mister_Tails121 [Is it possible to get root rights there? Or now you have to survive without root …], on a terminal type `touch .writeable`, then reboot
 @Mister_Tails121 [Is it possible to get root rights there? Or now you have to survive without root …], [Edit] on a terminal type `touch .writeable` and press enter, then reboot
 @mintphin [on a terminal type touch .writeable and press enter, then reboot], I don't think this does anything, what are you testing this on?
 Ubuntu tweak tool has a option to enable read write. … There is a terminal code as well. … I've never had an issue with OTA's after writing something, but OTA's can over write any changes you've made with no warnings.
 @Danfro [After installing UT on your Xperia you can install an alternative/patched versio …], Thanks for the info. TBH I rarely shoot video so its not a big issue and im sure it will get sorted out. I did see on the forums however that someone was saying the picture quality from the camera is pretty bad. But i'm not sure what that means. an
[20:17] <ubptgbot> d I'm coming from a Blu C5 (see link) so I can't imagine how it could be worse than the camera I am using currently. The Xperia is a huge upgrade compared to Blu C5.  … https://www.amazon.com/BLU-Android-5Display-Internal-Memory/dp/B07Z5FKKR1
 This is offtopic I think but someone can help me with terminal in Linux?
 @Danfro [Xperia works fine as a daily driver. If you really need blutooth you check if yo …], Oh I do use blue tooth. what do i need to check verify if I can use BT. And I rly mind jack headphones when I'm out. The only place I tend to use BT is at home. SO if it doesn't work it will be a hit but no where near a deal breaker.
 What did you need help with?
 @MrCoolAndroid [This is offtopic I think but someone can help me with terminal in Linux?], you're right, it is off topic. there are plenty of places to search for that. and we have https://t.me/UBportsOF for overflow discussions that may still be somewhat relevant
 @PhoenixLandPirate [What did you need help with?], Can we talk on DMs about?
 @dohbee [you're right, it is off topic. there are plenty of places to search for that. an …], Thanks
[20:25] <ubptgbot> Margaret Walters was added by: Margaret Walters
 @o101o [Thanks for the info. TBH I rarely shoot video so its not a big issue and im sure …], You can have a look at some example images here: https://t.me/UT_photography
 Good or bad photos depend on your expectations. Xperia is much much better than my E5, so I am happy. Of course they could be better.
[20:28] <ubptgbot> Yeasin Mia Budiman |Cryptodash was added by: Yeasin Mia Budiman |Cryptodash
 I do not bluetooth so I can not give you much help here. If you pick a device and/or have specific hardware that you need, find people with this device and/or your hardware and ask around.
[20:29] <ubptgbot> <a b> Selecting the right kernel flags or options, my manufacturer's room and config file with the least amount of errors have 300 errors ^_O. More work then making a basic kernel x64 for a gentoo installation. hmmm.
[20:29] <ubptgbot> <a b> [Edit] Selecting the right kernel flags or options, my manufacturer's kernel and config file with the least amount of errors have 300 errors ^_O. More work then making a basic kernel x64 for a gentoo installation. hmmm.
 @a b [Selecting the right kernel flags or options, my manufacturer's kernel and config …], https://t.me/halium is for the low level porting work. but yes, phones are not PCs
[20:32] <ubptgbot> <a b> @dohbee [https://t.me/halium is for the low level porting work. but yes, phones are not P …], Hey thanks, might learn something
 I'm not a phone guy in general. Not a fan of android. Anyhow, don't know much about them so just to be safe @dohbee or another one of you UBport informed individual's mind taking a quick look at the phone I just ordered just make sure I didn't screw it up and grab the wrong type/version? I'm pretty sure I got it right but just to be safe.
[20:33] <ubptgbot> Thanks in advance to anyone willing to double check what I got. I'm very excited about having linux on a phone!!!
 @o101o [I'm not a phone guy in general. Not a fan of android. Anyhow, don't know much ab …], https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01FJT7N4W?psc=1
 the description reads correct
 @dohbee [the description reads correct], TYVM
 Also did I hear one of you say in the Destination Linux interview from about for weeks ago, say that the Nexus 4 (maybe it was the 5) only  had the convergence part working. Meaning no cell/data function at this time. Or did I misunderstand? I have friend with a 4 and I might be able to get him to give UBports a try. I just don't want to ge
[20:40] <ubptgbot> t his hopes up if there is no cell/data working at the moment. I believe at one point he had Ubuntu Touch running on it.
 @o101o [Also did I hear one of you say in the Destination Linux interview from about for …], i think you misunderstood. most everything works on the nexus 4 (except for hotspot, and maybe wireless display)
 oh great
 I'll let him know
 @UniversalSuperBox [I don't think this does anything, what are you testing this on?], i remember seeing this work on a tutorial of how to use the terminal
 @UniversalSuperBox [I don't think this does anything, what are you testing this on?], [Edit] i remember seeing this on a tutorial of how to use the terminal
 posted about a year ago on the ubports forums
 [Edit] posted about a year ago on the ubports blog
 @mintphin [i remember seeing this on a tutorial of how to use the terminal], i'm pretty sure the filename is `.writable-image` and it doesn't go in the home directory
 ah
 yeah it's a vague memory actually
 then yeah i think it could be that.
 anyway you shouldn't do that
 if one really wants a traditional linux distro on their phone, they should probably be using something other than UT
 (Sticker, 512x506) https://irc.ubports.com/4YDYmWoL.webp
 (Sticker, 512x506) https://irc.ubports.com/nsCGeGad.webp
[21:14] <ubptgbot> rlots was added by: rlots
 @dohbee [if one really wants a traditional linux distro on their phone, they should proba …], not that u were talking to me but I run ubuntu 20.04 on 4 thinkpads and so UT/UBports fits right in.
 @o101o [not that u were talking to me but I run ubuntu 20.04 on 4 thinkpads and so UT/UB …], sure, but Ubuntu Touch is not a traditional linux distro. the rootfs is read-only because the image has to fit in a small partition on the phone, and apt/dpkg is not really secure, and it's harder to support if it were writable. apps are managed wi
[21:25] <ubptgbot> th a life cycle policy, so they don't keep running in the background. they are confined to prevent apps stealing data from other apps, or using location/mic/camera when not allowed, and such
 got it.
 I get it. this is a phone not a laptop or desktop.
 just out of curiosity. Is there a reason why the next pine phone release shipping with alpine and not UBports?
 @o101o [just out of curiosity. Is there a reason why the next pine phone release shippin …], they are doing group buy style sales, and part of the money goes to the community for each community edition. the last one was for UBports, and the next one is for the postmarketOS/Alpine community
[21:29] <ubptgbot> <Benni S> @o101o [just out of curiosity. Is there a reason why the next pine phone release shippin …], pinephone stands on its own. it supports all OS that are supporting pinephone. Therefore, community releases are iterating though thoses OS.
[21:29] <ubptgbot> <Benni S> I asked the same question just some days ago :P
 see https://www.pine64.org/2019/08/19/its-time-to-start-giving-back/
 @dohbee [they are doing group buy style sales, and part of the money goes to the communit …], got it. sounds like a good move for the broader Linux phone (and I guess linux in general) community. That said UBport and Michael's  feedback is what sold me on trying linux a la phone now. I was gonna give it another year or two. Did not expect t
[21:36] <ubptgbot> o giving it a try on a phone this summer.  Looking forward to setting it up. #science
 well, TBF android already is "linux on a phone" :)
 @dohbee [well, TBF android already is "linux on a phone" :)], Point taken sir. But #fingerscrossed UBports is not triangulating us, six ways from Sunday and reporting to the government whether or not I'm maintaining proper social distancing.  And for the record yes I am. And I'm wearing three masks.  Even when using telagram.
 well UBports Foundation is a German not-for-profit entity, so GDPR and all
 Ubuntu Touch is the OS :)
 okay so u kept the name. I thought it changed as a result of the fork. so I call it Ubuntu Touch. Got it.
[22:25] <ubptgbot> James Shlep was added by: James Shlep
[22:50] <ubptgbot> <Margaret Walters> (Photo, 421x768) https://irc.ubports.com/7xpgWxlq.png 😛
 Hello people, new Nexus 5 owner that just flashed UT. Finally back in the game after not having a device for almost 2 years
 But, while wifi is connected (2.4Ghz or 5Ghz) when I open OpenStore it just spins, white bg.
 I tried a terminal and I can ping the world by name or number.
 I am a total noob btw, but listen to the Q&A audiocasts regularly 😊
 well, not new to Linux, daily driver since hardy heron
 Is the time right?
 no, even though I set the city (Rochester, MN)
 It says 9:38 pm
 OK it is October 1970 let me fix that 😊
 So is it a bug that auto time is not working? BTW now OpenStore loads 😊 Way to go @UniversalSuperBox you really are a legend 😊
 This application is very interesting https://open-store.io/app/webapp-creator.jujuyeh but it doesn't install for the pinephone, do you have any idea how to make it work on the pinephone ?
[23:13] <ubptgbot> <Steve Kueffer> @Elias [This application is very interesting https://open-store.io/app/webapp-creator.ju …], There's also this webapp creator, which personally I prefer: https://open-store.io/app/webber.timsueberkrueb
 Steve Thanks
 The application doesn't work on the pinephone
 Shortcut export fails
 @rikshaw [I am a total noob btw, but listen to the Q&A audiocasts regularly 😊], +1