[01:00] <sabmoc> mdke, ping re: moinmoin
[01:00] <mdke> ello
[01:01] <mdke> i mean, sabmoc, pong
[01:01] <sabmoc> ah good you're awak, so what is involved with switching to moinmoin
[01:01] <sabmoc> haha :)
[01:01] <mdke> hmm
[01:01] <sabmoc> i'll pong you!
[01:01] <mdke> heh
[01:01] <mdke> i heard it was the geek way to respond
[01:01] <mdke> anyhow
[01:01] <sabmoc> heh
[01:02] <mdke> moinmoin is pretty simple
[01:02] <sabmoc> I like simple
[01:02] <mdke> yeah you basically cut out all the tags ;)
[01:02] <mdke> http://ubuntulinux.org/wiki/MoinMoin
[01:02] <mdke> sabmoc, i don't mind doing it later on
[01:03] <sabmoc> mdke, thats ok, I would like to do it myself to see how it works.
[01:03] <mdke> ok
[01:04] <mdke> best way is to take a look at an existing page
[01:04] <mdke> also
[01:04] <mdke> http://ubuntulinux.org/wiki/MoinMoinExamples
[01:05] <mdke> heh
[01:05] <mdke> we all think alike
[01:05] <mdke> we are the borg
[01:05] <mdke> *coughs*
[01:05] <sabmoc> lol
[01:05] <mdke> not really
[01:05] <mdke> >_>
[01:05] <mdke> <_<
[01:05] <sabmoc> stop
[01:05] <sabmoc> im dying
[01:05] <mdke> you can't die
[01:06] <mdke> only be assimilated
[01:06] <mdke> ok enough
[01:06] <mdke> i've only seen the occasional start trek episode, i wanna make that clear
[01:06] <sabmoc> kidneys rupturing
[01:06] <mdke> *star
[01:06] <sabmoc> suure..
[01:06] <mdke> heh
[01:07] <sabmoc> moinmoin
[01:07] <sabmoc> huh http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/FrontPage/searchwiki?source=search&expr=MoinMoinExamples&submit=Search
[01:07] <sabmoc> 0 results
[01:08] <mdke> oh sorry
[01:08] <mdke> i suck
[01:08] <mdke> oh well its linked from HelpOnEditing
[01:08] <sabmoc> found it
[01:09] <sabmoc> mdke, where are you located?
[01:09] <mdke> london uk
[01:09] <mdke> sorry
[01:09] <mdke> my name is matt
[01:12] <sabmoc> hi matt
[01:12] <mdke> hiya
[01:12] <sabmoc> ok, moinmoin looks pretty strait forward, but I have one question.
[01:12] <sabmoc> 1. Why
[01:12] <mdke> fire away
[01:12] <mdke> hmm
[01:13] <sabmoc> as in, why not html which almost everyone is already familiar with
[01:13] <mdke> but loads of users aren't familiar with html
[01:13] <mdke> the idea is to encourage people who can't write things like html: because those that can, can easily write moin ;)
[01:13] <sabmoc> but probably more than moinmoin
[01:14] <sabmoc> ah ok, I see now
[01:14] <mdke> i wasn't around when they took the decision, but i think that simplicity is the main reason
[01:14] <sabmoc> yes it is simpler
[01:14] <sabmoc> Ok, good enough
[01:14] <mdke> sadly it is not yet set as default
[01:15] <sabmoc> Ask me what I think of wiki's
[01:15] <mdke> lol
[01:15] <mdke> i've read it
[01:15] <sabmoc> haha
[01:15] <mdke> you have a point
[01:16] <sabmoc> wait a minute?
[01:16] <sabmoc> what!
[01:16] <sabmoc> read it where?
[01:16] <mdke> on the canadian team page
[01:16] <sabmoc> oh
[01:16] <sabmoc> actually I didnt write that
[01:17] <mdke> oh
[01:17] <mdke> it says you did iirc
[01:17] <sabmoc> you mean the little note about the bug?
[01:17] <mdke> wikis always get
[01:17] <mdke> cluttered over time and become difficult to navigate (imo).
[01:17] <mdke> AlexCombas 19March2005
[01:17] <sabmoc> oh under the web portal section!
[01:17] <mdke> heh
[01:17] <sabmoc> ok ok
[01:17] <mdke> read all the way down!
[01:17] <sabmoc> guilty
[01:18] <sabmoc> bah
[01:18] <mdke> the bug thing relates to OUR wiki
[01:18] <mdke> not wikis in general
[01:18] <mdke> our website sucks ass
[01:18] <sabmoc> hmm ok
[01:18] <sabmoc> yeah its a little *cough cough*
[01:18] <mdke> lemme see which bug that is
[01:19] <sabmoc> but in general, about wiki
[01:19] <mdke> bizarre
[01:19] <mdke> those website bugs never get assigned HRMPH
[01:19] <sabmoc> brb
[01:21] <mdke> me too
[01:21] <sabmoc> ok, this is what i wanted to say
[01:21] <sabmoc> I dont like wiki's because they don't seem to encourage banter.
[01:22] <sabmoc> forums are great for bantering back and forth on subjects
[01:22] <sabmoc> but forums need large groups to really be fun
[01:22] <sabmoc> for a small group nothing is better than a mailing list
[01:23] <sabmoc> I dunno, just my opinion
[01:23] <mdke> yeah i c
[01:23] <mdke> we should distinguish here
[01:23] <mdke> that doesn't apply to the docs on the wiki
[01:23] <mdke> just to the devel and community stuff
[01:24] <sabmoc> yeah
[01:24] <sabmoc> wiki's are super for document creation though
[01:24] <mdke> i still think you're wrong tho, hang on a tic and i'll explain
[01:24] <sabmoc> ok
[01:25] <mdke> ok
[01:25] <sabmoc> Im not trying to say wiki's are not useful or good. They are great for making documents with a group.
[01:25] <mdke> just a quick example
[01:25] <mdke> i help out with the italian team
[01:25] <mdke> today i made a page for wiki pages which could usefully be translated
[01:26] <mdke> the idea is that people add to it, wishlist style
[01:26] <sabmoc> cool
[01:26] <mdke> that wouldn't work as well on a mailing list
[01:26] <sabmoc> I see your point
[01:26] <mdke> another reason that i dislike mailing lists
[01:27] <mdke> is that threads end up all over the shop
[01:27] <sabmoc> Ok, for creating action lists where everyone can have a say they are really good.
[01:27] <mdke> branching off left right and centre
[01:27] <mdke> because people don't reply to the right one
[01:27] <mdke> or don't use reply-to-list or whatever
[01:28] <sabmoc> yes, I only like mailing lists with about 10-30 people
[01:28] <sabmoc> more than 30(just off the top of my head) you should build a forum
[01:28] <mdke> hmm
[01:29] <mdke> in the italian group list today there was one thread that began again because someone replied all
[01:29] <mdke> so irritating
[01:29] <sabmoc> what Im saying is that if you want to have a running conversation with someone, wiki is not the best tool.
[01:29] <mdke> yeah that's very true
[01:29] <mdke> email or irc ;)
[01:29] <sabmoc> haha
[01:29] <sabmoc> irc sucks!
[01:29] <sabmoc> jk
[01:29] <mdke> hmm
[01:29] <sabmoc> I like irc
[01:30] <mdke> good for meetings
[01:31] <mdke> and procrastinating
[01:31] <sabmoc> yeah, sometimes its difficult to understand someone enless you are having a convo. You can get a better picture of the feelings involved.
[01:31] <sabmoc> HAHA
[01:31] <sabmoc> mdke, Ok, I'll stop bugging you
[01:31] <mdke> i'm not doing anything
[01:31] <sabmoc> Ok, then stop bugging me
[01:31] <sabmoc> haha
[01:31] <mdke> heh
[01:32] <mdke> these cheeky canadians
[01:32] <sabmoc> heh
[01:32] <mdke> us brits are so much more polite
[01:32] <sabmoc> aye, you are more polite
[01:33] <sabmoc> I dont think we are impolite though, maybe just a little abrupt.
[01:33] <mdke> honest is the word
[01:33] <sabmoc> perhaps
[01:33] <sabmoc> see, that was a very polite thing to say.. i would have never thought of that
[01:33] <mdke> heh
[01:33] <mdke> i like straight talking
[01:33] <mdke> i'm not that english ;)
[01:33] <sabmoc> ah ok
[01:34] <mdke> hmm
[01:34] <mdke> i tell you what is fun
[01:34] <sabmoc> ok
[01:34] <mdke> converting polish pages to moin
[01:34] <sabmoc> whys that?
[01:34] <mdke> can't understand where anything is supposed to go
[01:34] <mdke> heh
[01:35] <mdke> this one's got some random css in it
[01:35] <sabmoc> so when you translate a page, its completely automated?
[01:35] <mdke> i'm not translating just trying to change the formatting
[01:36] <sabmoc> oh, I read that wrong. I see.
[01:36] <sabmoc> ah the polish, wonderful people
[01:36] <mdke> yeah they rock
[01:37] <mdke> but their punctuation looks like code
[01:37] <mdke> or vice versa
[01:37] <sabmoc> lol
[01:38] <sabmoc> A while back I lived in Toronto, it is much more metropolitan overthere than here. Met some real poles fresh from poland, very crazy times.
[01:38] <sabmoc> fun, but just completely crazy
[01:38] <sabmoc> but fun
[01:38] <sabmoc> Did I say fun?
[01:39] <mdke> you may have
[01:39] <mdke> *grins*
[01:39] <mdke> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/PolishUbuntu
[01:39] <mdke> awesome
[01:41] <mdke> i'll leave that one till later
[01:42] <sabmoc> oh wow
[01:42] <sabmoc> mdke, is that a before or after shot?
[01:42] <sabmoc> later
[01:43] <mdke> before
[01:43] <mdke> me too
[01:44] <sabmoc> when I select moinmoin markup, and hit preview, in the textbox it doesnt change, but the preview at the bottom shows all the html. Are they invisible in the text box?
[01:45] <mdke> the preview shows you what it looks like
[01:45] <mdke> moin doesn't include html tags so they show up as normal text
[01:46] <mdke> geddit?
[01:47] <sabmoc> hmm, down in the preview box it looks like this now:
= Welcome to the Canadian Local Ubuntu Team=

[01:47] <sabmoc> yes, I understand why, but how do I remove the html?
[01:48] <sabmoc> in the text box it doenst show me any of the html tags
[01:48] <mdke> oh
[01:48] <mdke> huh
[01:49] <mdke> funky
[01:49] <mdke> save it and lemme see
[01:49] <sabmoc> maybe I just needed to save it and reload the file
[01:50] <sabmoc> yup
[01:50] <sabmoc> alrighty, now I'm in business
[01:50] <mdke> ok
[01:50] <mdke> how bizarre
[01:50] <mdke> shout if you wanna know anything
[01:50] <mdke> i'll be around
[01:51] <mdke> any when i say "anything"
[01:51] <sabmoc> mdke, thank you I will
[01:51] <mdke> i mean, basic things about moin
[01:51] <mdke> ;)
[01:51] <mdke> i know nothing about star trek
[01:51] <sabmoc> now Im really getting suspicious
[01:51] <mdke> heh
[01:52] <sabmoc> you cut me off in the middle of a clever borg retort
[01:52] <mdke> crazy thing is that its true
[01:52] <mdke> i actually dont
[01:52] <mdke> oh you mean the mind reading thing?
[01:52] <sabmoc> yes
[01:52] <mdke> thats not borg related at all
[01:52] <mdke> just said that to put you off the scent
[01:52] <sabmoc> it worked, im completely lost
[01:53] <sabmoc> what is
 in moin?
[01:53] <mdke> nowt
[01:53] <sabmoc> nowt?
[01:53] <mdke> nothing
[01:53] <mdke> to my knowledge
[01:54] <sabmoc> ok
[01:54] <mdke> just text
[01:54] <sabmoc> I mean, when I want to make a break space, how do I do that in moin?
[01:55] <mdke> leave a line i think
[01:55] <sabmoc> thanks
[01:55] <mdke> hang on
[01:56] <mdke> hmm dunno
[01:56] <mdke> leaving a line will give you a new paragraph
[01:56] <mdke> lists have decent line gaps
[01:56] <mdke> other than that, i'm not too sure tbg
[01:56] <mdke> tbh*
[01:57] <sabmoc> thats good, ok thanks
[01:59] <mdke> its not as flexible as html of course
[01:59] <mdke> can't get very nice designs, but its ok for text based stuff
[02:05] <mdke> ok bed for me
[02:05] <mdke> sabmoc, nice to meet you, see you again soon
[03:30] <jsgotangco> good day
[03:34] <sabmoc> good day to you also
[03:38] <jsgotangco> sabmoc i am jerome pleased to meet you
[03:39] <sabmoc> hi Jerome, Im Alex
[03:39] <sabmoc> and same here
[03:49] <jsgotangco> im just got my feet wet in docbook, its very nice i got the 1st steps covered easily
[03:54] <sabmoc> cool
[03:54] <sabmoc> I just joined the team yesterday
[03:54] <sabmoc> I did a little DocBook work about a year ago, so I know a little.
[03:56] <jsgotangco> i learned that its not that hard actually
[03:57] <sabmoc> yeah, its just basically xml, and xml is just markup
[08:47] <sabmoc> hi Burgundavia
[08:49] <jsgotangco> what a pleasant surprise hibernate and sleep now works flawlessly
[08:53] <Burgundavia> salut
[09:06] <sabmoc> fear the badgers!!
[09:07] <jsgotangco> would their names be benny?
[09:07] <jsgotangco> *grin*
[09:08] <Burgundavia> ah yes, more user art
[09:08] <Burgundavia> can I look at some of the stuff you are doing?
[09:09] <jsgotangco> hi Kinnison
[09:10] <Kinnison> Morning
[09:12] <sabmoc> Burgundavia, its not finished yet..
[09:12] <sabmoc> but sure
[09:12] <jsgotangco> sabmoc: you contribute artwork i presume?
[09:13] <sabmoc> jsgotangco, this will be my first
[09:13] <sabmoc> jsgotangco, oh they can!
[09:13] <jsgotangco> i tried im not too good at it
[09:13] <jsgotangco> hehe
[09:14] <sabmoc> mostly its practise
[09:14] <sabmoc> as you can see, I clearly cant spell worth a damn
[09:14] <jsgotangco> ive heard most comic books now are just lifted from scanned pencils
[09:14] <sabmoc> Burgundavia, want me to email it?
[09:14] <jsgotangco> the inkers are left to doing the letters
[09:15] <jsgotangco> and the letter have nothing to do
[09:15] <jsgotangco> hehehe
[09:15] <sabmoc> jsgotangco, hhaha
[09:16] <jsgotangco> i'd like to do icons sometime but its been a while i did artwork
[09:17] <sabmoc> jsgotangco, good icons are a lot harder than they look
[09:17] <sabmoc> people dont give jimmac enough credit
[09:18] <sabmoc> even though they give him lots of cred, it just isnt enough
[09:18] <sabmoc> Burgundavia, ping
[09:19] <sabmoc> jsgotangco, want to see my picture?
[09:19] <jsgotangco> sure
[09:20] <sabmoc> dccsend or email?
[09:20] <jsgotangco> oh email<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[09:21] <sabmoc> is svg ok?
[09:21] <jsgotangco> no problem
[09:22] <sabmoc> there you go
[09:24] <sabmoc> as you can see, its not finished yet, eventually there will be a laptop in front of him with UBUNTU written on the screen, and his body needs a lot more detail.
[09:24] <jsgotangco> aww
[09:24] <sabmoc> lol
[09:24] <jsgotangco> svg blends well with my background color
[09:25] <jsgotangco> maybe you should add more lines to make his knees more prominent
[09:25] <sabmoc> yes I havnet fixed his leg
[09:25] <sabmoc> haven't*
[09:26] <sabmoc> and he has not hands
[09:26] <Burgundavia> sabmoc: here
[09:26] <Burgundavia> sabmoc: playing kolf
[09:26] <Burgundavia> very addictive, if sadly kde
[09:26] <Burgundavia> sabmoc: sure, you can eamil it
[09:26] <sabmoc> whats the addy?
[09:27] <jsgotangco> kolf sure is fun
[09:29] <sabmoc> its kind of hard to tell that it's a badger
[09:30] <jsgotangco> sabmoc what time is it there arent you supposed to be sleeping hehehe
[09:35] <sabmoc> jsgotangco, no, only 12:35am
[09:35] <sabmoc> how about you?
[09:38] <jsgotangco> 4:38pm
[09:42] <Burgundavia> sabmoc<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[09:42] <Kinnison> burgey!
[09:43] <Burgundavia> Kinnison: hello
[09:43] <Burgundavia> Kinnison: good morning, should I say
[09:43] <Burgundavia> Kinnison: I had my first upload. xconq
[09:46] <Kinnison> cool
[09:46] <Kinnison> whassat do then?
[09:46] <Kinnison> Aaha found it
[09:46] <Kinnison> Source: xconq
[09:46] <Kinnison> Version: 7.4.1-2.1ubuntu1
[09:46] <Kinnison> Changed-By: Corey Burger<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[09:46] <Kinnison> Cool
[09:47] <Burgundavia> sabmoc: not bad badger
[09:47] <Burgundavia> sabmoc: tail is a little odd, but the rest is good
[09:49] <sabmoc> Burgundavia, :D thanks
[09:49] <sabmoc> he is going to have a little laptop infront of him that says UBUNTU on the screen
[09:49] <sabmoc> I want him to be the mascot for the breezy badger release
[09:49] <Burgundavia> Kinnison: I have been sucked in by KDE. I am fixing qtparted, and now am filing bugs against kolf
[09:49] <Burgundavia> save me from this evil qt-ing
[09:51] <Kinnison> Burgundavia, dude, get out while you still can.
[09:57] <jsgotangco> lol
[10:23] <sabmoc> welcome back :)
[10:26] <jsgotangco> sabmoc: are you a canuck?
[10:27] <sabmoc> haha, oh man I really miss hockey :)
[10:27] <Burgundavia> bah hockey
[10:27] <jsgotangco> bah
[10:27] <jsgotangco> hehe
[10:27] <Burgundavia> they can stay locked out
[10:27] <sabmoc> well I was until hockey died
[10:27] <jsgotangco> lol
[10:28] <jsgotangco> well i just asked because i am moving to toronto next year
[10:28] <Burgundavia> where are you now?
[10:29] <jsgotangco> i am in manila
[10:35] <jsgotangco> i think i get the docteam flow and process but i have a question: where do i actually get to know which doc needs to be edited/reviewed and stuff?
[10:35] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco: mostly everything is done, with minor review stuff
[10:35] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco: in the quickguide, it says at the beginning of the section
[10:36] <jsgotangco> oh
[10:36] <jsgotangco> i guess i will be doing more stuff for badger instead
[10:38] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco: there is still stuff to do right now
[10:38] <mdke> hi all
[10:38] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco: if you are feeling adventurous, try editing and cleaning up the wiki
[10:38] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia: that's what i want to know but i really dont know where to start
[10:38] <jsgotangco> well the wiki
[10:38] <jsgotangco> hehe
[10:38] <jsgotangco> that's a good start too
[10:39] <mdke> :)
[10:39] <Burgundavia> I hate the wiki
[10:39] <Burgundavia> I barely touch it
[10:39] <jsgotangco> but that means fixing everyting to moin moin hehehe
[10:39] <mdke> don't knock it ;)
[10:39] <Burgundavia> I like wikis, just not this one
[10:40] <jsgotangco> i like the wiki except that its kinda chaotic for me at the moment
[10:40] <Burgundavia> en.wikpedia.org/wiki/User:Burgundavia
[10:40] <mdke> i mean, don't knock the job of fixing everything to moin
[10:40] <mdke> *grins*
[10:40] <jsgotangco> but arent we supposed to standardise the wiki to moin?
[10:41] <mdke> yeah
[10:41] <mdke> i spend lots of time on it
[10:42] <mdke> Burgundavia, not the right link
[10:42] <Burgundavia> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Burgundavia
[10:42] <Burgundavia> missed an i
[10:42] <mdke> oh doh
[10:42] <mdke> should have seen that
[10:43] <Burgundavia> that is why there is a page there
[10:43] <Burgundavia> as lots of people don't
[10:43] <mdke> lol
[10:43] <Burgundavia> see it, that is
[10:43] <Burgundavia> amd64 users here?
[10:44] <jsgotangco> wish my laptop has that
[10:45] <mdke> jsgotangco, if the idea of doing moin conversion doesn't repel you, you can use this page to see what needs to be done:
[10:45] <mdke> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/pagesByType
[10:45] <mdke> we're nearly there ;)
[10:46] <jsgotangco> holy
[10:47] <jsgotangco> i don't mind moin really
[10:47] <jsgotangco> but...
[10:47] <jsgotangco> hehe
[10:47] <jsgotangco> nevermind
[10:47] <mdke> sup?
[10:48] <sabmoc> mdke, CanadianTeam has been moined
[10:48] <jsgotangco> that stat aint bad actually
[10:48] <mdke> sabmoc, genius
[10:48] <jsgotangco> its almost there
[10:48] <sabmoc> mdke, did you just wake up?
[10:48] <mdke> not long ago
[10:48] <mdke> isn't it really early with you?
[10:48] <sabmoc> heh, well now its my turn to hit the bed
[10:48] <mdke> same applies @ Burgundavia
[10:49] <sabmoc> almost 2am
[10:49] <mdke> sabmoc, ok sweet dreams
[10:49] <mdke> 10 here
[10:49] <jsgotangco> heh
[10:49] <Burgundavia> 2am is great!
[10:49] <mdke> yeah 2 am is doable
[10:50] <Burgundavia> 4am is better
[10:50] <mdke> but Burgundavia you've probably just got up or something
[10:50] <Burgundavia> nope
[10:50] <mdke> after a couple of hours sleep
[10:50] <Burgundavia> got up at 9am
[10:50] <mdke> ok cool
[10:50] <mdke> body clock is back
[10:51] <Burgundavia> I even went to bed at 11pm last night
[10:51] <jsgotangco> whaddaya know my userpage is still in html hehehe
[10:52] <mdke> lol
[10:52] <mdke> jsgotangco, i'm matt btw
[10:52] <mdke> pleased to meet you
[10:52] <mdke> oh you're the phillippines guy?
[10:52] <jsgotangco> i am jerome
[10:52] <jsgotangco> yes
[10:52] <mdke> ahh
[10:52] <jsgotangco> pleased to meet your acquaintance
[10:52] <mdke> sorry to see your site got deleted
[10:53] <mdke> i believe there is a recycle bin
[10:53] <mdke> but i don't remember how it works
[10:53] <jsgotangco> ahh its ok the n00bs where just learning
[10:53] <jsgotangco> good thing they didnt delete anything else
[10:53] <mdke> heh
[10:54] <jsgotangco> thanks for recovering some parts
[10:54] <jsgotangco> hehe
[10:54] <mdke> np
[10:55] <jsgotangco> hmm wiki work aint so bad after all
[10:55] <mdke> lol
[10:56] <sabmoc|sleeping> goodnight folks
[10:56] <sabmoc|sleeping> Zzzz
[10:56] <jsgotangco> night
[10:56] <mdke> night
[10:57] <mdke> i'm off too
[10:57] <mdke> cyall
[10:57] <jsgotangco> cya
[10:57] <sabmoc|sleeping> Burgundavia, before I go, I dont think Im going to be able to make it to the vanlug in April I'll catch the next one. Do you go to the vancouver meetings too?
[10:59] <Burgundavia> sabmoc|sleeping: haven't been but might go
[11:00] <sabmoc|sleeping> Burgundavia, well I hope you do, If you make it I'll buy you a beer
[11:01] <Burgundavia> sounds good
[11:01] <sabmoc|sleeping> alrighty, nite
[11:15] <sabmoc|sleeping> Burgundavia, take a look under News and Anouncements https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/CanadianTeam
[11:15] <sabmoc|sleeping> ok, this time for real.. ZZzz
[11:24] <sabmoc|sleeping> damn
[11:25] <sabmoc|sleeping> cant sleep
[11:25] <jsgotangco> hahaha
[11:25] <jsgotangco> do you happen to play around with Rosetta?
[11:25] <sabmoc|sleeping> that name sounds familiar
[11:26] <Burgundavia> online translation app
[11:26] <Burgundavia> one of 3
[11:26] <jsgotangco> yes
[11:26] <Burgundavia> IRMA
[11:26] <jsgotangco> i am trying it out
[11:26] <Burgundavia> and Pootle
[11:26] <jsgotangco> but i stll get errors?
[11:26] <Burgundavia> rosetta is very much alpha
[11:27] <jsgotangco> but i just have to type and enter right?
[11:27] <jsgotangco> no special characters whatsoever?
[11:27] <Burgundavia> what do you mean by special chars?
[11:28] <Burgundavia> There is a rosetta channel #rosetta
[11:28] <jsgotangco> its already #launchpad but no one seems awake
[11:48] <jsgotangco> lol
[11:49] <sabmoc|zombie> hrmm... brainzzz!!
[11:49] <jsgotangco> aha your wiki page is in html
[11:50] <sabmoc|zombie> blast!
[11:50] <sabmoc|zombie> i'll fix it tomorrow
[11:51] <jsgotangco> *grin*
[11:52] <sabmoc|zombie> are these the hoary docs? http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocteamProjects
[11:53] <jsgotangco> the sure look hoary
[11:54] <sabmoc|zombie> jsgotangco, do you know if the html preview is available in a single page for easier printing?
[11:54] <jsgotangco> no i don't :(
[11:55] <sabmoc|zombie> Or maybe someone can tell me the best way to print out the documentation.
[11:58] <jsgotangco> well im going home
[11:58] <jsgotangco> see you later
[11:59] <sabmoc|zombie> jsgotangco, cya
[08:00] <sm> hi mdke, want to spend a few minutes on stuff ?
[08:02] <sm> or mako ?
[08:08] <mdke> sm, if you like
[08:08] <mdke> hi
[08:09] <sabmoc> is there an easy way to print out the current documents?
[08:10] <mdke> hi sabmoc
[08:10] <mdke> not sure
[08:10] <sabmoc> goodday mdke
[08:11] <mako> hey dude
[08:11] <mdke> hi mako
[08:11] <sabmoc> maybe we could start exprorting snapshots to pdf
[08:12] <sabmoc> exporting, even
[08:35] <mdke> sm, ping
[08:50] <mako> mdke: hola
[08:50] <mdke> :)
[09:01] <sabmoc> brb
[09:09] <sm> ack, where's my sound
[09:10] <mdke> sm, ping {louder}
[09:10] <sm> oh I killed esd so I could hear something else
[09:10] <mdke> heh
[09:10] <sm> sucky ubuntu eh..
[09:10] <sm> oops
[09:10] <mdke> sm, do you use ubuntu?
[09:10] <mdke> ah
[09:11] <mdke> that's a yes ;)
[09:11] <mdke> sm, how you doing?
[09:12] <sm> good thx.. I see you're nearly finished with stx pages
[09:12] <mdke> heh
[09:12] <mdke> 30 odd to go
[09:16] <sabmoc> that reminds me, my userpage is still html
[09:17] <sabmoc> eep!
[09:17] <mdke> lol
[09:17] <sm> mako, what are we going to do about zwiki upgrades.. cut to the end of the story :)
[09:17] <sm> who's gonna do it
[09:18] <sabmoc> haha
[09:19] <mdke> oooh
[09:19] <sabmoc> mdke, it did it again, it wouldnt show me the html markup until I saved and reloded the page.
[09:19] <mdke> sabmoc, html is a bit dodgy i think
[09:20] <mdke> when you edit it it doesn't show you the whole code
[09:20] <sabmoc> ah
[09:21] <mdke> it tries to let you edit it as it appears
[09:21] <mdke> unless you open it in an external editor
[09:21] <mdke> lol http://www.uninteresting.info/archives/images/bart-google-thumb.gif
[09:22] <sabmoc> lol
[09:22] <sabmoc> good advice
[09:22] <sabmoc> speaking of which
[09:23] <sabmoc> does moin have a tag for  ?
[09:23] <mdke> no
[09:23] <sabmoc> blast!
[09:23] <mdke> lol
[09:23] <sabmoc> haha
[09:23] <mdke> its not cut out for design
[09:23] <sabmoc> yeah, oh well
[09:23] <mdke> emphasis on content
[09:26] <sabmoc> Im actually beginning to prefer moin
[09:26] <mdke> :)
[09:27] <sabmoc> Im discovering a whole new form of lazyness
[09:27] <sabmoc> and just when I thought I couldn't get any lazyer
[09:33] <mdke> laziness is an art
[09:39] <sm> sabmoc: prefer it to what ?
[09:39] <sm> mdke: deleted pages go to /recycle_bin
[09:43] <mdke> sm, thanks
[09:44] <mdke> sm, you're doing a zwiki update?
[09:44] <sm> no, I can't
[09:45] <mdke> sure
[09:45] <mdke> but you're hoping to do one ;)
[09:45] <mdke> ?
[09:45] <sm> right.. we're talking about how to re-establish the process
[09:45] <mdke> cool
[09:45] <sm> otherwise many things on the wishlist are held up
[09:46] <sm> but mako and I are playing irc tag around the world :)
[09:46] <mdke> lol
[09:47] <sabmoc> mdke, ok stop peering at me, it is fixed.
[09:47] <mdke> lol
[09:47] <mdke> awesome
[09:47] <sabmoc> sm, prefer it to html, but not really, just beause I am lazy
[09:48] <sabmoc> and now.. badger time!
[09:48] <sm> ah
[09:48] <mdke> ?
[09:48] <mdke> sabmoc, you have a badger?
[09:48] <sabmoc> no, im making one
[09:48] <sabmoc> frankenbadger!
[09:48] <mdke> hmm
[09:48] <sabmoc> no, inkscape
[09:48] <mdke> linux on a dead badger?
[09:49] <sabmoc> hmm, nice badger, does it run linux?
[09:49] <mdke> http://www.strangehorizons.com/2004/20040405/badger.shtml
[09:49] <mdke> so you're designing a logo?
[09:49] <mdke> awesome
[09:49] <sabmoc> mascot
[09:49] <mdke> yeah sorry
[09:49] <sabmoc> should be finished tomorrow
[09:50] <sabmoc> or maybe today
[09:50] <mdke> awesome
[09:50] <mdke> check out that howto tho its great
[09:50] <sabmoc> omg
[09:53] <sabmoc> To install antenna, make a small incision with the pocketknife at the nape of the badger's neck. Then shove the antenna down the badger's back under the hide. Antenna must lie as flat as possible along the spine, or security will be suboptimal. Antenna may also be installed by cutting the badger's back skin open, but requires post-installation stitchery to restore structural integrity; this method is recommended for licensed taxidermist
[09:53] <sabmoc> s only.
[09:55] <sabmoc> thats just wrong
[09:55] <mdke> keep readin
[09:56] <mdke> sm, did you see that other thing about the pics?
[09:56] <sm> I lost it.. do you remember it
[09:56] <mdke> sure
[09:57] <mdke> the little pics at  https://www.ubuntulinux.org/portal_memberdata/portraits/ don't have suffixes
[09:59] <mdke> sm, there might be thousands of the buggers tho
[10:00] <sm> that link doesn't work for me.. how did you get there ?
[10:00] <mdke> ok sorry
[10:00] <mdke> example: https://www.ubuntulinux.org/portal_memberdata/portraits/118
[10:04] <sm> but how are those accessible on the site
[10:04] <mdke> people post them in their userpages and they come up in stx
[10:04] <sm> you can set them in preferences, right
[10:04] <mdke> no idea
[10:05] <mdke> in the pages i've seen they are just posted as links
[10:05] <sm> can I see one
[10:06] <mdke> erm
[10:06] <mdke> hang on
[10:06] <sm> I don't find any in the ubuntu wiki..
[10:08] <mdke> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/AlexanderPoslavsky
[10:09] <sm> dang.. search for "portraits" doesn't match that url
[10:09] <sm> plovs causing trouble :/
[10:09] <sm> he added that in his preferences
[10:09] <sm> but unfortunately it will always be without a suffix
[10:10] <mdke> right
[10:10] <sm> plone names these according to the username
[10:10] <mdke> but the address works on its own in a browser doesn't it?
[10:10] <sm> certainly
[10:10] <sm> but we can't link those in moin at all afaik, except by changing moin rules
[10:11] <mdke> not a problem
[10:12] <sm> unless.. we could get the apache admin to put in a rewrite rule, to just strip off the suffix
[10:12] <sm> then it would work
[10:12] <mdke> sounds like too much bother
[10:12] <sm> I think portraits could be useful
[10:12] <sm> you could also not use prefs, just upload the image to the wiki
[10:13] <mdke> yeah exactly
[10:13] <mdke> whats the score on making moin the default markup?
[10:14] <sm> let's talk about what that means exactly
[10:14] <sm> - move it to the top of the page types list
[10:15] <mdke> maybe
[10:15] <mdke> i don't know how it works
[10:15] <sm> what else
[10:15] <sm> I think that is probably what people mean
[10:15] <mdke> oh
[10:15] <sm> I can do that now
[10:15] <mdke> what i mean is
[10:16] <mdke> sm, when you create a new page, moin be the selected markup
[10:16] <mdke> so that people who don't look at that bit or change it because they don't know any of the markups, just leave it as moin
[10:16] <sm> yeah, I think it just needs to move to the top of the list
[10:17] <sm> there
[10:18] <sm> good move :)
[10:18] <mdke> cool
[10:18] <mdke> awesome thanks sm
[10:19] <sm> re the login redirect problem - I have seen it only when using the zwiki skin
[10:19] <sm> I think
[10:20] <mdke> right
[10:20] <mdke> i filed a bug
[10:20] <mdke> do those get assigned to you or elsewhere?
[10:20] <sm> I bookmarked it
[10:20] <mdke> ty
[10:20] <mdke> but perhaps its not your fault
[10:21] <mdke> maybe its plone
[10:21] <sm> they get assigned to louise
[10:21] <sm> so it's her fault
[10:21] <mdke> heh
[10:21] <mdke> i think more likely they don't get assigned at all
[10:37] <sm> out of time, I'll have to try again
[10:37] <mdke> lol
[10:38] <mdke> poor sm
[10:38] <sm> see you
[10:38] <mdke> bye


[14:43] <cmaloney> morning, gentle folks
[19:09] <jrwren> guess how much I love my job? I just got paged on this fine holiday and worked for the last 5hrs. It also happens to be my wife’s birthday. :cry:
[19:14] <cmaloney> Ugh
[19:14] <cmaloney> That's no fun at all
[19:14] <cmaloney> Also, Happy Birthday, Mrs. jrwren
[19:17] <llua> ditto
[19:36] <jrwren> on a positive note, my home server automatic shutdown and restart is working very well. It will even not shutdown on schedule if it is being used. It uses smbstatus to detect usage. I had fun.
[19:50] <cmaloney> nice!


[00:43] <ailean> guys, looking for an opinion on how stable hardy is - is it fine under most circumstances?
[00:45] <Hobbsee> ailean:
[00:45] <Hobbsee> ailean: i'ts not worth it.  dual boot if you like, though
[00:45] <ailean> hi Hobbsee, ltns - how's life?
[00:45] <ailean> yeah, i might do that
[00:46] <antdedyet> anyone have possible information on either a) getting rid of or disabling pulseaudio in potential hardy releases or b) adding jack support to pulseaudio
[00:47] <antdedyet> (without going to the extent of rebuilding the pulseaudio package locally with the jack module)
[00:48] <antdedyet> preferrably, I'd still like access to my raw sound device. :)
[01:06] <Torgoton> Hi. When trying to install the hardy netboot, I'm told there are no kernels to install. How does one proceed?
[01:23] <clever> i cant upgrade http://www.pastebin.ca/848873
[01:31] <yotux> clever:  when I installed I did no upgrade.  I did a fresh install
[01:33] <yotux> I went back to gusty due to some breakage that I could not deal with
[01:33] <yotux> I understand that alpha are bugy and decided to fall back
[02:04] <Rubin> anyone know anything about getting the new intel wifi drivers to work?
[02:04] <Rubin> i used to use ipw3945 but it seems a better thing called iwlwifi has come out from intel?
[02:05] <Rubin> but i load iwl3945 and no eth device
[02:07] <Hobbsee> Rubin: it's been renamed.  see ifconfigi
[02:07] <Hobbsee> -i
[02:07] <Rubin> ifconfig -a shows only lo and eth0 (wired)
[02:08] <Rubin> the weird thing is the module loads..
[02:08] <Hobbsee> no wlan0_rename?
[02:09] <Hobbsee> and do you have the ubuntu modules?
[02:09] <Rubin> you mean more than linux-image-2.6.24?
[02:10] <Adlai> hi, are there plans to include xmonad 0.5 in hardy?
[02:10] <Rubin> is there a file that defines what devices go in what names? i wonder if the old restricted driver is tromping it somehow
[02:11] <Hobbsee> linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.24
[02:12] <Rubin> lol. no i guess i'm missing that one
[02:12] <Rubin> weird though, the module is there in /lib/modules/2.6.24...
[02:12]  * Rubin tries installing
[02:12] <Hobbsee> Rubin: the firmware isn't.
[02:12] <Rubin> ahh k
[02:13] <Rubin> brb test time
[02:16] <Rubin> thanks hobbsee that was it
[02:16] <Hobbsee> you're welcome
[02:16] <Hobbsee> make sure you actually have the metapackgaes installed too
[02:17] <Hobbsee> linux-generic
[02:20] <Rubin> yep i do
[02:21] <Rubin> its kinda frankenstien between gutsy and hardy atm, trying to find out if my hardware problems are fixed before fully committing ;)
[02:21] <DanaG> Dang, the past two bugs I've filed have been duplicates of ones I didn't know about, since I couldn't find them using Search.
[02:23] <Rubin> that seems like it always happens to me :/
[02:35] <Hobbsee> DanaG: did you use launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/<source package> to check?
[02:36] <DanaG> I searched by description of 'batteries' and 'hal', but found nothing.
[02:38] <DanaG> Hmm, gnome-phone-manager tries to connect to the wrong channel on my phone.
[02:39] <DanaG> And /dev/rfcomm0, though set up, gives the app an 'access denied'.
[02:55] <DanaG> !find gnokii-identify
[02:55] <ubotu> Package/file gnokii-identify does not exist in hardy
[02:55] <DanaG> !file gnokii-identify
[02:55] <DanaG> argh.
[02:55] <DanaG> !gnokii-identify
[02:55] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about gnokii-identify - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[02:55] <DanaG> ARGH!  What's the "apt-file search" equivalent?
[03:15] <IdleOne> having an issue here. trying to edit a file in another user account. but when I type sudo nano filename it ask for the user pass, I enter it and then it returns to the prompt. can someone tell me what I am doing wrong?
[03:19] <Hobbsee> IdleOne: use a better text editor
[03:26] <DanaG> Why is gnome-phone-manager using the wrong channel to connect to my phone?
[03:26] <IdleOne> Hobbsee: gksu gedit did the same thing
[03:27] <IdleOne> but I got it sorted
[03:53] <teethdood> PulseAudio has the ability to adjust the volume for each app. How do I do so?
[04:19] <Rubin> anyone had any luck with alsa over bluetooth to stereo headphones?
[05:22] <antdedyet> eh ... no response on my pulseaudio question.
[05:41] <sigma_1234> whens the next alpha of hardy coming out?
[06:00] <sarthor> Hi, vmware problem pasted here, any help http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/51424/
[06:03] <sarthor> Hi, vmware problem pasted here, any help http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/51424/
[06:06] <sarthor> Hi, vmware problem pasted here, any help http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/51424/
[06:30]  * corevette wants alpha 3!
[07:29] <DanaG> 'ascii' codec can't encode characters in position 17-20: ordinal not in range(128)
[07:29] <DanaG> in exaile.
[07:32] <nanonyme> how is that odd?
[07:33] <nanonyme> ehm, ok. the fact that it's using ascii might indeed be odd...
[07:34] <DanaG> I'm trying to play files that have kanji in the filenames.  Oddly, it starts playing just fine, and keeps playing as long as I don't acknowledge the error dialog.
[07:34] <nanonyme> yups
[07:35]  * nanonyme shrugs not knowing exaile well enough to know if it has unicode support or not
[07:41] <DanaG> Oh, and hitting 'stop' and then 'play' on the keyboard resets to the start of the playlist.
[08:15] <scizzo-> I must say that firefox 3.0 seems to be rendering pages faster and seems also to use a better lookup for the nameserver adresses
[10:34] <Toma-> Im trying to track down the change to the Makefile in linux-ubuntu-modules as to why the rtl8180 and rtl818x drivers were disabled...
[11:07] <dhq> when i configure glibc why do i get this error checking the size of long double... configure: error: cannot compute sizeof (long double), 77
[12:26] <_Shade_> when can i expect hardy alpha 3 announcement? According to a release schedule it's going to be released today
[12:29] <Hobbsee> when it's done
[12:33] <TheInfinity> _Shade_: if you have alpha2 and you update everything you will get alpha3, so no reason to make stress ;)
[12:34] <_Shade_> TheInfinity: no i haven't but i'd like to download a complete iso
[12:35] <muszek> hi... any idea when will a3 be released?
[12:35] <TheInfinity> >Hobbsee: when it's done
[12:35] <Pici> !final
[12:35] <ubotu> If you installed a Alpha/Beta/RC version of Ubuntu 8.04 (Hardy Heron) and have been keeping it up to date, then you are already running the latest version of Hardy. To make sure, type « sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade » in a console.
[12:36] <TheInfinity> is alphatesting THAT exciting? :p
[12:37] <bazhang> haha only four months to go!
[12:37] <_Shade_> TheInfinity: indeed :) what would you do if there were no beta-testers? :P
[12:37] <TheInfinity> _Shade_: i also test hardy, i would not be here if not, but software needs time :)
[12:37]  * muszek is not running hardy yet, but wants to check if a bug that he suffers from in Gutsy still persists in Hardy... and I guess that when reporting the status on lauchpad, it's better to say "Alpha 3" then "daily from january 9"
[12:38] <TheInfinity> muszek: if its released you can say alpha3
[12:38] <muszek> TheInfinity: that's why I was asking when it's gonna be released :)
[12:38] <muszek> are you guys using hardy as your main desktops?
[12:38] <_Shade_> muszek: i wonder what bug do you mean?
[12:38] <TheInfinity> muszek: am i crazy?!
[12:39] <TheInfinity> <-- uses hardy in VMs
[12:39] <Pici> I am.
[12:39] <scizzo-> I am using it on the main desktop
[12:39] <_Shade_> Pici seems crazy then :PPP
[12:39] <TheInfinity> i need a system which works without so much errors
[12:40] <muszek> _Shade_: two bugs... one with wi-fi dying every now and then (reboot required, unless network manager is swapped with wicd) and the other one is less important - monitor brightness going crazy every  few minutes (there's an easy workaround though)
[12:40] <TheInfinity> because i need my system for work. not that good if you need much time to start working ...
[12:40] <Pici> I have a gutsy server and a desktop that dualboots also, just in case this computer becomes unbootable.
[12:40] <TheInfinity> gutsy server? masochist :p
[12:40] <bazhang> wow
[12:41] <Pici> TheInfinity: It doesnt do much
[12:41] <muszek> heh... I guess I won't be moving yet then :)... I have quite a few apps that need to work flawlessly
[12:41] <Pici> And thats not because its running Gutsy ;P
[12:42]  * TheInfinity tried non-lts-server for some time. never again ...
[12:42] <_Shade_> muszek: i do not use wi-fi so it's not a problem for me. I use a kde version and it suffers of incomplete translation though
[12:44] <_Shade_> muszek: that drives me mad since i am doing my best on launchpad to make it better :P
[12:45] <TheInfinity> .oO((some people need wifi, need xorg, need ... ;) )
[12:45] <muszek> _Shade_: the wi-fi bug is hardware-specific (not all versions of intel's ipw3945) and I doubt that it's very common.  as for translations, I found it to be much easier to just use english... in case you need to google something or ask a question.  but if you're in the translation team yourself, I can see why you might want to use some other language :)
[12:48] <_Shade_> muszek: i'm just collaborating but i'm not an official translator. Although these translations are getting worse release by release.... at least in the apps that i use
[14:26] <WorkingOnWise> on AMD64, is OpenOffice 64 bit?
[14:36] <lunks> Hello, X broke. :)
[14:37] <lunks> As soon as I update Hardy, I'll try running it again.
[14:37] <lunks> Oddly, GDM works fine but won't let me login. startx starts for a while then closes with a backtrace.
[14:53] <lunks> 0: /usr/bin/X11/X(xf86SigHandler+0x7e) [0x80c750e]
[14:54] <lunks> 1: [0xffffe420]
[14:54] <lunks> Any idea on how to debug it?
[14:54] <lunks> brb
[15:08] <IdleOne> got a small issue here. update manager has put a triangle with a ! in it telling me my update information is out of date and when I click on it it checks for updates and tells me my system is up to date. icon is still in the panel telling me the same thing. any ideas?
[15:08] <Hobbsee> IdleOne: got broken packages?
[15:08] <IdleOne> Hobbsee: not that I know of
[15:08] <IdleOne> update manager does not return any broken packages
[15:08] <Hobbsee> no, it wouldn't.  check with apt
[15:09] <IdleOne> will do
[15:09] <Hobbsee> if so, iz known apt bug.
[15:10] <IdleOne> icon just went away
[15:10] <IdleOne> aptitude returns nothing
[15:13] <IdleOne> guess it was just a glitch in the system
[15:13] <IdleOne> ohhh I like the new update icon :)
[15:13] <IdleOne> lol
[15:13] <IdleOne> little things amuse me
[15:14]  * Hobbsee suspects it's transient
[15:14] <IdleOne> Hobbsee: how do i get apport to stop warning me about a application crash that I have reported on already
[15:15]  * Hobbsee shrugs
[15:15]  * Hobbsee thought there was a button there for it
[15:15] <IdleOne> not sure
[15:16] <IdleOne> keeps warning me about seti_enhanced
[15:16] <IdleOne> it is getting annoying
[15:17] <IdleOne> I love my fios 1138kb/s :)
[15:17] <IdleOne> make that 1386
[15:32] <WorkingOnWise> on AMD64, is OpenOffice 64 bit?
[15:33] <IdleOne> WorkingOnWise: should be
[15:34] <WorkingOnWise> IdleOne: any way to verify?
[15:35] <IdleOne> apt-cache policy should tell you
[15:36] <IdleOne> the version
[15:36] <IdleOne> packages.ubuntu.com should have that info also I would think
[15:36] <IdleOne> should /would
[15:36] <WorkingOnWise> ty
[15:37] <ccooke> How broken is Hardy atm?
[15:38] <void^> worksforme
[15:38] <ccooke> (can it survive an hour or two without crashing and burning, is the real question)
[15:38] <ccooke> I usually start testing the new version about 2-3 months before release, so...
[15:39] <bazhang> pretty nice; not really an alpha feel at least here
[15:39] <WorkingOnWise> ccooke. It's rock steady on my laptop. amd64
[15:39] <IdleOne> ccooke: if not for the oops I did this morning I would be at 12 days uptime right now
[15:39] <IdleOne> !worksforme
[15:39] <ubotu> Common Sense: Just because you can, does not mean you should (and especially recommend to others). Think before you do. "Works for me" does not mean it is ok. The latest version of everything is not always useful if you aim for stability. Please see http://geekosophical.net/random/worksforme/
[15:40] <ccooke> heh. I'm not running amd64 anywhere until there's a working java plugin :-/
[15:40] <bazhang> hehe
[15:40] <WorkingOnWise> i broke my framebuffe just so I'll have something to work around!
[15:41] <WorkingOnWise> why do we call it common when it is so rare?
[15:41] <IdleOne> sense?
[15:41] <IdleOne> because it should be common
[15:41] <IdleOne> but like you said it is rare
[15:41] <ccooke> WorkingOnWise: because everyone has it - they're just very good at *ignoring* it
[15:41] <ccooke> (and also: because everyone knows it, and it is often wrong :-)
[15:42] <WorkingOnWise> ccooke: u sure are an optimist!   :)
[15:42] <ccooke> WorkingOnWise: in this channel... aren't we all?
[15:43] <IdleOne> the term common sense is misuse I believe. comomon sense would imply what is best for the community but is used for what is best for the individual
[15:43] <IdleOne> hmmm maybe it isnt misused
[15:43] <IdleOne> lol
[15:43] <WorkingOnWise> hehe
[15:43] <IdleOne> Ubuntu=common sense
[15:43] <ccooke> no, common sense is what's *commonly thought to be* best
[15:44] <ccooke> The whole wisdom-of-crowds thing. Wikipedia say - and it *is* pretty sensible
[15:44] <WorkingOnWise> ccooke: in that light it fits....it just makes me go hmmm a lot!
[15:44] <bazhang> as opposed to conventional wisdom? dont conflate the two
[15:44] <ccooke> (it's just that when it's not...)
[15:45] <ccooke> bazhang: but common sense draws upon conventional wisdom. Conventional wisdom usually takes the simple answer - and common sense is all *about* the simple answer that's obvious, before complicated flights of fancy
[15:46] <IdleOne> ccooke: the simple answer is DONT RUN HARDY! as per /topic
[15:47] <ccooke> IdleOne: yes. and it's a sensible answer!
[15:47] <bazhang> ccooke: that is the olde definition of cw or conventional wisdom
[15:47] <IdleOne> ccooke: that said. go ahead it is fairly stable here make sure you !backup
[15:48] <void^> the icedtea packages are still mostly broken on amd64
[15:48] <ccooke> But more to the point - I'm not exactly new to unstable systems, or even ubuntu+1. I just wanted to check that it's not completely unusable before I switch my main (horrendously-well-backed-up) laptop to it
[15:49] <bazhang> cw would say it is good then
[15:49] <WorkingOnWise> i look at it this way. run xp and know that its problems may never be fixed, or run hardy and know that its problems will be fixed by april 08....
[15:49] <WorkingOnWise> not to tough for me to pick  :)
[15:52] <WorkingOnWise> as for backups....all my stuff is backed up very well. I have a mypackages file that I keep up to date. If I have a problem, I reinstall the base system, have apt-get run that file, and go to bed. wake up in the morning, reboot, restore my data, and bang...back up.
[15:52] <WorkingOnWise> god I live it!
[15:52] <WorkingOnWise> did it once just to see it actually work!
[15:53] <WorkingOnWise> um..live=love
[16:15] <chiefinnovator> what version of Firefox will Hardy Heron have?
[16:16] <TheInfinity> chiefinnovator: 2?
[16:16] <chiefinnovator> Not 3?
[16:16] <TheInfinity> is 3 stable?
[16:16] <chiefinnovator> I can't find a release date for 3
[16:16] <chiefinnovator> anyone know?
[16:16] <TheInfinity> you can install 3 if you want
[16:16] <TheInfinity> alreadx in gutsy
[16:17] <chiefinnovator> how about dapper?
[16:17] <TheInfinity> dapper is old. :p
[16:17] <chiefinnovator> I keep on meaning to upgrade, but now I'm tempted to wait until Firefox 3
[16:19] <TheInfinity> why is FF3 that important?
[16:19] <TheInfinity> you can install FF3 in hardy - if you want.
[16:19] <TheInfinity> but its unstable
[16:21] <chiefinnovator> It just sounds really good
[16:21] <chiefinnovator> I'm in Dapper now, and I can't even get Firefox 2, so I Figured it would be an ordeal getting firefox 3 in Heron if it doesn't come with it
[16:21] <TheInfinity> if you want the latest software you should use gutsy. there you get FF3
[16:22] <chiefinnovator> How does that work?  Is it just in the repos?
[16:22] <TheInfinity> yes
[16:23]  * ccooke is amused to find that the (mozilla-based) browser on his internet tablet is using the same version of gecko as FF3 :-)
[16:24] <ccooke> palmtops that render pages better than desktops are... wrong.
[16:24]  * TheInfinity uses opera. so no proble,ms in this question ;)
[17:34] <WorkingOnWise> where is the work being done for a working java plugin on amd64? blackdown, sun, gcj...
[17:35] <void^> icedtea
[17:35] <lemonade> hope it will be ready for hardy...
[17:35] <WorkingOnWise> thats the longterm solution? so if I install it, when java plugin for amd64 finally works, i'll be there with an update?
[17:35] <lemonade> it's quite buggy atm
[17:36] <WorkingOnWise> lemonade: u sayin that cuz yer jealous? we all know iced tea is better than lemonade  :D
[17:37] <WorkingOnWise> sorry...couldnt resist
[17:37] <lemonade> haha, nope
[17:38] <WorkingOnWise> i will still need gcj if I want to do java code in Eclipse, right?
[17:38] <WorkingOnWise> just not the browser plugin
[17:58] <timing> Hey i don't have direct rendering in hardy, which i had in gutsy
[17:59] <timing> can i submit this as a bug? like: hi, i have this video card. (output from lspci here). and direct rendering is not working. It was working in gutsy tho.
[18:01] <Tomcat_> timing: Yes.
[18:01] <timing> k, will do then :-)
[18:02] <timing> Tomcat_: i forgot which driver was used for my video card in gutsy, is there a way to look that up?
[18:02] <Tomcat_> People will tell you how to debug it more thoroughly usually.
[18:02] <timing> k, interesting :-)
[18:02] <Tomcat_> timing: grep Driver /etc/X11/xorg.conf
[18:02] <Tomcat_> One of these. :D
[18:02] <timing> Tomcat_: i don't have gutsy anymore, that file is from hardy
[18:02] <timing> it's overwritten :-)
[18:03] <Tomcat_> Oh.
[18:07] <timing> okay weird
[18:08] <timing> sudo glxinfo says i do have direct rendering
[18:08] <timing> to which group do i have to add myself then?
[18:10] <Bauldrick> flushplugin doesn't seem to wan to install on my amd64
[18:16] <timing> Tomcat_: any idea about the permissions?
[18:16] <timing> crw-rw-rw- 1 root video 226, 0 2008-01-10 18:40 card0
[18:16] <timing> uid=1000(tijmen) gid=1000(tijmen) groups=4(adm),20(dialout),24(cdrom),25(floppy),29(audio),30(dip),44(video),46(plugdev),104(scanner),108(lpadmin),110(admin),115(netdev),117(powerdev),1000(tijmen)
[18:17] <Tomcat_> timing: No idea, sorry.
[18:18] <timing> k
[19:23] <rsk> new alpa coming today?
[20:01] <Tomcat_> rsk: Should, yes.
[20:04] <Usiu> Hi
[20:04] <Usiu> Does hardy support lvm2 ?
[20:09] <rsk> it's not finnished yet
[20:09] <rsk> but it may do soo usuiu
[22:05] <gnomefreak> anyone getting alerts with firefox <IP_ADDRESS> or tbird <IP_ADDRESS> in hardy?
[22:05] <gnomefreak> if anyone does please ping me with alert please


[01:02] <phillw> hi xnox
[01:03] <xnox> phillw: hello.
[01:05] <phillw> xnox: is there a set of instructions so that I could pull in the proposed fix for suggested at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libguestfs/+bug/1086974/comments/2
[01:07] <xnox> phillw: well, I've tried to do it & it turns out that picking that change is non-trivial: because both ubuntu UDD imports are out of date & debian vcs history is out of date.
[01:07] <xnox> otherwise it would have been a one line $ bzr merge -rX..Y lp:ubuntu/libgestfs into the quantal branch =/
[01:08]  * xnox has filed bugs in ubuntu UDD & debian upstream about missing revision histories.
[01:09] <xnox> phillw: sorry for the delay. I will manually reconstruct changes from debdiffs and upload something.
[01:09] <phillw> xnox: hmm okies... as there is a larger (more critical) problem, I'm really at a loss here. bug 1088692 I haven't asked ikonia if he's had chance to follow up on it.
[01:09] <xnox> but it's 1AM now here and I am falling asleep.....
[01:10] <phillw> xnox: you share the same time as me :) I was just checking mails before heading for bed :) Have a good sleep :)
[01:11] <xnox> phillw: well. that one is a duplicate. currently we have two types of screen corruptions one affected desktop background only & another affecting any video.
[01:11] <xnox> and your screenshot shows a mixture of the two =/
[01:12] <xnox> phillw: i'll escalate it.
[01:12] <xnox> tomorrow =)
[01:12] <xnox> good night!
[01:13] <phillw> balloons: FYI ^^
[01:17] <balloons> got it
[01:20] <phillw> balloons: good :)  as Jackson asked a little while back, is there any further work to do on http://pad.ubuntu.com/communitywebsite-contribute-quality before it can become a draft wiki page so we can begin the process of splitting it into its areas?
[01:27] <balloons> phillw, should be ready to go at this point
[01:27] <balloons> the further work is to update the page we linked to of common questions
[01:28] <balloons> I need to ping everyone about the ide
[01:29] <phillw> do you want me to transfer it to WIP wiki page, so people can work on the grammar / tidy up?
[01:32] <phillw> For the FAQ, we can set up one as best as we know, but that area will be better populated from the feedback we get on the classroom sessions :)
[01:33] <balloons> it's the tutorial page
[01:33] <balloons> it's linked from there
[01:34] <balloons> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Tutorials
[01:34] <balloons> you can see the basic idea
[01:34] <balloons> i've got to run atm, but feel free to leave thoughts and I'll ping back tomorrow
[01:35] <phillw> I'm going to try have an early night tonite. I'll be about from about 15:00 UTC 19th Dec (Christmas shopping to do).
[07:35] <pitti> Good morning
[07:41] <jibel> Good morning pitti
[08:06] <dholbach> good morning
[08:25] <Noskcaj> evening guys
[09:13] <suga> I want to get the knowledge on QA automation approach which handles on Ubuntu12.04
[09:14] <suga> Appreciate if anybody respond about this.
[09:17] <suga> appreciate if you give some explanation about is there any automation tool handled for QA part on Ubuntu12.04
[09:43] <xnox> suga: I cannot understand your question. Have you google for project called "jenkins" ?
[09:52] <suga> Atually I want to know the QA automation approach handled on Ubuntu12.04 release
[09:53] <suga> For example; LDTP framework is used by ubuntu11.04 QA team.. Like that, what is the QA automation approach on Ubuntu12.04
[09:55] <xnox> we use jenkins, auto-pkg-tests, UTAH, xpressor, auto-pilot.
[09:55] <xnox> see: http://qa.ubuntu.com/automation/
[09:56] <xnox> but we should update that page as we no longer use mago: but instead auto-pilot & https://launchpad.net/xpresser
[09:56] <xnox> jibel: ^^^^
[09:59] <jibel> xnox, right, I don't have privileges to edit this page though :)
[09:59] <jibel> gema, do you? ^
[10:00] <gema> jibel: not last time I tried, but I filed a ticket, it may be fixed now
[10:00]  * gema trying
[10:01] <gema> jibel: I seem to be able to, I am not sure how to change it though
[10:01] <gema> suga: can you explain to me all you find confusing about the page?
[10:02] <gema> jibel: or shall I just remove the mago part?
[10:02] <gema> jibel: at least until we get to it
[10:05] <xnox> gema: please remove the mago bit, and someone should write a paragraph about xpresser.
[10:06] <gema> xnox: I am on the writing something about xpresser bit
[10:08] <gema> I do not have permission to preview drafts
[10:08] <gema> I wonder if it'll allow me to write x)
[10:08] <gema> xnox: feedback please, before I leave typos on the page: http://qa.ubuntu.com/automation/
[10:09] <xnox> gema: looks good.
[10:09] <xnox> suga: see updated http://qa.ubuntu.com/automation/
[10:14] <gema> xnox: I even added the way to contribute testing to utah x)
[10:16] <gema> suga: thanks for pointing us out that there was old information there
[10:17] <gema> pointing out to us, even
[12:18] <xnox> pitti: jibel: gema: me & jodh tried to reproduce the usec assertition failure as seen in jenkins, but locally. We didn't managed to (even with using auto-package-test branch/scripts)
[12:19] <xnox> is there a chance to get ssh into the --login kvm instance of that failure?
[12:21] <xnox> syslog / dmesg from the failure whould be nice as well.
[14:22] <pitti> xnox: yes, I'm sure that we can arrange something
[14:23] <xnox> pitti: cool. i think jibel promised to setup stuff for me in a private message ;-)
[14:23] <pitti> xnox: might it be related that you and I usually try on a raring host, but the VMs in the DC run on a precise host kernel? or kvm itself being older there?
[14:24] <jibel> xnox, yeah I promised, and will do ... soonish
[14:24] <pitti> jibel: if you are busy, I can take this
[14:25] <pitti> I was thinking on logging into the temporary VM and setting up an ssh tunnel to some place xnox can reach
[14:26] <xnox> pitti: me can reach qalab vpn...
[14:28] <pitti> xnox: ah, good, that'll make it simple
[14:34] <pitti> jibel: I'm on it
[14:38] <pitti> jibel: ok, xnox has something to play with :)
[14:39] <jibel> pitti, ahah, many thanks!
[14:40] <jibel> xnox, you owe pitti a green dot ;)
[14:40] <pitti> oui, j'aime le vert!
[14:41] <pitti> la rouge est très mauvaise
[14:43] <pitti> xnox: upstart fails locally for me as well, but much later (in user_sessions, there is stderr output "No LSB modules are available.")
[14:44] <xnox> pitti: that is known. And by the way "No LSB modules are available" is printer, because of a hook call if any tests failed.
[14:44] <xnox> pitti: on a passing user_sessions there is no stderr.
[14:44] <pitti> ah, ok
[14:44] <xnox> but that is also fixed in trunk =)
[14:45] <xnox> (just to please adt ;-) )
[15:17] <xnox> pitti: i think qa lab machines are simply too damn fast
[15:17] <pitti> haha
[15:17] <pitti> xnox: yeah, they have umpteen cores and GB of RAM and
[15:18] <pitti> s/and$//
[15:18] <pitti> "a supercomputer is a machine which can perform an endless loop in just two seconds"
[15:19] <xnox> pitti: so the machine has nanosecond resolution, yet utmp records only store microsecond resolution and hence upstart test-suite fails -> expecting a different time between two writes, while it can actually be within same microsecond.
[15:19]  * xnox rolls eyes
[15:22] <roadmr> but let's do this, ask her to do the change in salesforce (she'll do it in 2 minutes, I will take all morning figuring salesforce out)
[15:23] <roadmr> then, if c3 doesn't change, I can frob the database easily (takes 2 minutes)
[15:23] <roadmr> total time = 4 minutes
[15:23] <roadmr> hahaha
[15:38] <xnox> roadmr: wrong channel?
[15:38] <roadmr> xnox: sorry :/
[17:10] <zyga> roadmr: heh
[19:35] <Noskcaj> can someone contact the testdrive devs and get netboot added to it somehow, or autoconfig for ppc. both would help hugely
[19:40] <phillw> bug 1084729
[19:44] <phillw> bug 1087823, bug 1085173
[19:44] <Noskcaj> can someone confirm bug 1087848, vbox is need i believe
[19:45] <phillw> Noskcaj: I have vbox on my local machine, is only vbox that it is seen on?
[19:46] <Noskcaj> phillw, that i have seen it on, i haven't check for it for about a week however
[19:48] <phillw> Noskcaj: I'm zsyncing up the lubuntu amd13.04 daily. I'll check it on KVM and VBox a bit later (My fave T.V. programme is about to start :) )
[19:49] <Noskcaj> ok, thanks. and what show would that be?
[19:50] <phillw> Stargate SG1 :)
[19:50] <Noskcaj> phillw, ok, never seen it. i will be online all of today as school finished for the year yesterday
[19:51] <phillw> okay. I'll be back in ~ 1hour 15 mins.
[19:52] <phillw> I'll have a play with manual partitioning of lubuntu 13.04 and check if the display is there.
[19:53] <phillw> for netboots, that would have to be done on my dedi server owing to the amount of data needed to download.
[19:57] <Noskcaj> phillw, understandable. netboot in general is broken. turns out i won't be online all day, i have to babysit my 3 year old brother
[19:58] <phillw> he he... just when you thought you had a free day :)
[19:59] <Noskcaj> :(


[00:00] <hamitron> yeh :/
[00:00] <hamitron> my laptop has USB 1.1, so understand
[00:00] <hamitron> ;)
[00:03] <pr0ph3t> just to be sure, Steam on Linux is really cool, can't wait to see it proper. I'm off now, night all!
[01:30] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jo Shields] Evil, or why Douglas Crockford is harmful to Free Software - http://apebox.org/wordpress/rants/456/
[01:42] <ali1234> i have a suggestion
[01:43] <ali1234> when you're writing automated tests, run each test twice in a row
[01:43] <ali1234> i've been trying to record a screen cast for the past 2 hours and i've found several cases where something works only the first time you try to do it
[01:43] <ali1234> one of which was actually *in* the screencasting software
[01:57] <ali1234> ok so now that we install nvidia through "software-sources" there is a problem
[01:58] <ali1234> the way you access that dialog under the classic desktop is by opening synaptic and selecting the "repositories" menu item
[01:58] <ali1234> this doesn't work because jockey waits for synaptic to exit before installing packages
[01:58] <ali1234> but synaptic launched software sources, so you can't close it until you close software sources
[01:59] <ali1234> so it just hangs forever until you click cancel
[02:00] <ali1234> and of course there is no indication of what is happening
[02:01] <ali1234> also nouveau still locks this machine
[02:01] <ali1234> then watchdog timer resets it
[02:06] <directhex> proprietary drivers? EVIL! use intel!
[02:06]  * directhex flees
[02:06] <ali1234> lol
[02:06] <yellowwinner> ok...lol
[02:06] <ali1234> i thought you hated intel because it's so slow?
[02:07] <directhex> well, maybe
[02:08] <directhex> interestingly, if you run steam on intel, it pops up telling you to add a driver backport ppa to software sources
[02:08] <ali1234> bug 1076832
[02:08] <lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 1076832 in software-properties (Ubuntu) ""Additional drivers" tab doesn't work when Software Sources was launched by synaptic" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1076832
[02:08] <ali1234> bug 1076830
[02:08] <lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 1076830 in gnome-panel (Ubuntu) "panel crashes if you add, remove, then add the same applet" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1076830
[02:08] <ali1234> bug 1076829
[02:08] <lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 1076829 in kazam (Ubuntu) "Recording only works once" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1076829
[02:08] <yellowwinner> UBUNTU
[02:09] <ali1234> i know right, i only installed it two hours ago
[02:09] <ali1234> well, THIS version anyway :)
[02:11] <ali1234> now i have to figure out why firefox never starts if you run it from the menu, but works fine if you run it from the terminal
[02:13] <yellowwinner> I have had that happen
[02:13] <ali1234> Exec=firefox -new-window
[02:13] <ali1234> nope, nothing to do with that
[02:14] <ali1234> it must be a bug from the past two days because the test install i did two days ago on identical hardware worked fine
[02:14] <ali1234> maybe it's nouveau
[02:14] <ali1234> rebooting to proper driver
[02:16] <yellowwinner> I need help with ubuntu,I am making a game and I dont know what program I can use to make it or even a animation.
[02:18] <yellowwinner> hello?
[02:18] <yellowwinner> ik there is 114 users on chat.
[02:24] <ali1234> http://askubuntu.com/questions/204103/firefox-16-wont-start-from-the-gnome-shell-in-12-10
[02:24] <ali1234> fail :(
[02:30] <yellowwinner>  use to make it or even a animation.
[02:30] <yellowwinner>  hello?
[02:30] <yellowwinner>  ik there is 114 users on chat.
[02:30] <yellowwinner> --> ali1234<EMAIL_ADDRESS>has joined #ubuntu-uk
 http://askubuntu.com/questions/204103/firefox-16-wont-start-from-the-gnome-shell-in-12-10
[02:31] <yellowwinner> I need help with ubuntu,I am making a game and I dont know what program I can use to make it or even a animation.
[02:31] <yellowwinner> srry
[02:33] <yellowwinner>  I need help with ubuntu,I am making a game and I dont know what program I can use to make it or even a animation.
[02:33] <ali1234> what kind of game are you making?
[02:35] <yellowwinner> Its a platform,weapon game
[02:36] <yellowwinner> look here http://www.thatbigforum.com/new-game-help-wanted-t206240.html
[02:36] <ali1234> like super smash bros?
[02:37] <Azelphur> python/pygame is quite easy to learn and should get you where you want to go
[02:37] <yellowwinner> well sortof like super mario bro and super smash bro.
[02:37] <ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMFUOUz2TZw <- or like this kind of thing?
[02:37] <Azelphur> and very well documented, too
[02:38] <ali1234> pygame is a bit old fashioned though
[02:38] <Azelphur> sounds like that's all he wanted *shrug*
[02:38] <Azelphur> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUiqIlCrAck
[02:39] <ali1234> lol stolen graphics
[02:39] <Azelphur> no day is complete without piracy
[02:41] <yellowwinner> sort of,but my game will be different
[02:42] <yellowwinner> do you have skype
[02:42] <ali1234> well if you use pygame you will have to learn a lot of stuff
[02:43] <yellowwinner> well I do code ALOT so...]
[02:45] <ali1234> pygame uses SDL so it is like old style DOS programming with framebuffers
[02:45] <ali1234> it can also use opengl but that isn't much better without support libraries
[02:45] <yellowwinner> k,ali1234 do u have skype?
[02:46] <ali1234> you might be better off with something like this: https://love2d.org/
[02:46] <ali1234> i don't have anything yet i just reinstalled
[02:46] <ali1234> i need to reinstall everything
[02:46] <yellowwinner> ok
[02:47] <yellowwinner> i just reinstaled from 12.04 presice becouse software center and update manager was brocken
[02:49] <yellowwinner> so now im ubuntu 12.04.1 and software center only crashed once whith only 1 Gig
[02:49] <yellowwinner> of ram
[02:51] <yellowwinner> whith love 2-d can I make guns and stores
[02:51] <ali1234> sure
[02:52] <yellowwinner> ok
[02:52] <ali1234> you still have to do a lot of work yourself though
[02:52] <ali1234> just less than with pygame
[02:52] <yellowwinner> ik
[02:53] <yellowwinner> I still need help with graphics etc but espesioly graphics becouse i was never a good drwler
[02:54] <yellowwinner> I* Drawler*
[03:04] <yellowwinner> just installed love 2d
[03:22] <ali1234> no skype on 12.10?
[03:28] <ali1234> "previous purchases" on software centre doesn't work
[03:28] <ali1234> it's just empty :(
[03:33] <yellowwinner> works on 12.04
[03:34] <yellowwinner> well just a sec i will pm you my skype id becouse I got to go
[03:37] <yellowwinner> also try going to skypes homepage
[03:41] <Azelphur> ali1234: http://bitcoinfriday.com/ tasty deals are tasty
[03:42] <ali1234> blockchain.info zero fees for pingit?
[03:42] <ali1234> there's your solution for buying bitcoins
[03:42] <ali1234> just get a barclays account
[03:43] <Azelphur> ali1234: I get cheaper than pingit, and you can buy from me :D
[03:44] <ali1234> i don't want to buy anyt ho
[03:44] <Azelphur> £6.89/btc ain't bad though
[03:45] <ali1234> i guess
[03:45] <ali1234> but i already have enough
[03:46] <Azelphur> up to 40% off bitcoin cloths sounds awesome though
[03:46] <Azelphur> gotta get me a bitcoin hat
[03:49] <ali1234> are you still selling that FPGA board?
[03:52] <Azelphur> ali1234: yup
[07:25] <Mr_Tinkles> hi, when I boot (even attempt to boot from Cd) I get rmr:2
[07:25] <Mr_Tinkles> and it doesn't boot
[08:04] <theopensourcerer> Morning worldlings
[08:05] <popey> Morning :D
[08:10] <diplo> Morning
[08:37] <danfish> morning
[08:37] <danfish> I have never been so glad it's a Friday :)
[08:38] <popey> *\o/* friday!
[08:38] <popey> -------8<--------
[08:38] <theopensourcerer> Good week then danfish ?
[08:39]  * theopensourcerer will be drinking beer, playing pool and eating curry this evening in Farnham
[08:40] <danfish> theopensourcerer: don't ask. Too many ill people, a load of python for a remote patient monitoring system 'broke'
[08:41] <danfish> but at least Matt Rooney wasn't elected!
[08:42] <danfish> and lxc containers have really come along well in the latest release
[09:08] <awilkins> Does Quantal fix the Unity bug where if you have two differently sized monitors, when you drag a window to the top margin of the smaller one and it has a dimension larger than the dimension on that monitor, it maximises to the larger monitor instead?
[09:08] <popey> awilkins, not yet, its in progress
[09:09] <AlanBell> awilkins: nope
[09:09] <popey> I'd like that fixed in raring and backported to q and p
[09:09] <AlanBell> fwiw, it isn't just vertical
[09:09] <awilkins> Yeah, it's horizontal as well AFAICT
[09:10] <popey> bug 751605
[09:10] <lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 751605 in compiz (Ubuntu) "Multi-monitor - Windows maximize on the wrong monitor" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/751605
[09:10] <AlanBell> if you have a wide screen and a thin screen it jumps across if it would have fitted vertically
[09:10] <AlanBell> glad it is a bug though
[09:13] <JamesTait> Happy Friday, folks! :-D
[09:13] <mungojerry> i notice a distinct lack of popy wearing in the east end
[09:13] <mungojerry> compared to the city
[09:14] <mungojerry> 10% vs ~90%
[09:14] <AlanBell> poppy sellers know where the returns are
[09:14]  * theopensourcerer hides in shame
[09:14]  * popey has no poppy
[09:14] <mungojerry> most of the east end was flattened
[09:15] <mungojerry> although the current population might not know that
[09:15] <AlanBell> I did buy a poppy from the first seller that came round, but I have not seen any others
[09:15] <mungojerry> outside supermarkets
[09:15] <awilkins> Or the working class now just regard war as a tool of the rich to extract a profit (Halliburton, etc)
[09:15]  * theopensourcerer will acquire one this lunchtime.
[09:15] <mungojerry> it's this time of year i commemorate my grandad getting bronchial pneumonia
[09:16] <awilkins> My granddad was an engineer, worked on munitions in the war.
[09:16] <mungojerry> he got really sick and sent to hospital to recover. meanwhile his unit got sent to a battle where the allies got masssacred
[09:16] <mungojerry> pneumonia saved his life
[09:16] <theopensourcerer> My dad was "called up" in 1946 (phew)
[09:17] <diplo> I was in a shop the other day in plymouth and woman wanted a pin because she was going to use last years poppy, don't think she gets it really
[09:17] <mungojerry> :-\
[09:17] <theopensourcerer> lol
[09:17] <awilkins> My wife accused me of being the sort of person who would have ended up at Bletchley Park yesterday
[09:18] <mungojerry> i dream about the idea of working at BP
[09:18] <mungojerry> guys, i recommend you watch episode 3 of this series http://www.channel5.com/shows/heroes-of-the-skies/episodes
[09:18] <mungojerry> amazing story
[09:18] <awilkins> I dreamed about Batman going paragliding on his cape by lassoing a mess of bats.
[09:18] <AlanBell> think I might swap monitors between home and the office
[09:19] <mungojerry> i was reading yesterady about the 2 guys to swam to a stricken u-boat to retrieve the naval enigma, which was critical for the war in the atlantic
[09:19] <AlanBell> I kind of like my home monitor in portrait mode 1152x2048
[09:19] <mungojerry> they managed to waterproof the code books and the enigma and get it out, but they died as the u-boat sank
[09:20] <mungojerry> you don't see that kind of bravery and selfessness much now
[09:21] <popey> you didnt then either
[09:21] <popey> we find out about these acts much later usually
[09:21] <mungojerry> also there is less call for it nowadays
[09:23] <mungojerry> very grateful to those guys in the war though, and the more i read about it (which is quite a lot) , the more grateful i am
[09:25] <diplo> Also probably wouldn't be allowed to do things now, H&S would disallow it in case someone got sued
[09:27] <popey> awilkins, just spoke to the developer assigned to it, he's going to take a look next week
[09:27] <mungojerry> Alan Turing at bletchley: "when the prospect of a Nazi invasion of Britain had receded, he began to absent himself from parades. The authorities were irritated by Turing’s apparently casual approach, insisting that since he had signed up for Home Guard duties, he was under military law. Turing calmly pointed out to the furious officers in question that ... he had stated as much on the form that he had signed. One of the qu
[09:27] <mungojerry> estions was: ‘Do you understand that by enrolling in the Home Guard, you place yourself liable to military law?’ Turing had written his answer: ‘No’. Naturally, no one had noticed"
[09:27] <awilkins> popey, That's reassuring... has been a paper cut for a long time
[09:28] <awilkins> (not an official "paper cut" just annoying and persistent)
[09:28] <popey> yeah, bugs me too :)
[09:38] <diplo> Just booted up an old 1u server I had, running 8.04
[09:38] <diplo> hmm not touched that in a while :D
[09:41] <mattmonkeymagic> Hi, anyone able to help with xrdp/LDAP/pam issue??
[09:42] <theopensourcerer> lol - We had an email from a very old customer that we thought had died or something the other day. We set up Squid, VirtualBox (WinXP) and some other stuff on a 8.04 server in early 2009. She emailed to ask for the password as they wanted to add a new user ;-)
[09:42] <diplo> Booting up the other one now, it's been in my garage for 5+ years
[09:42] <diplo> Noisey!
[09:43] <diplo> Oooh Grub 0.95
[09:43] <diplo> Running debian
[09:48] <diplo> Stuck on Starting system log daemon
[09:49] <diplo> See how long I can put up with the noise for to see if it goes past
[09:57] <diplo> http://ubuntuone.com/4CyssbA2E98d3lbUmh6hrl
[10:10] <czajkowski> aloha
[10:19] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[10:52] <mungojerry> hello
[10:54]  * mungojerry has found his old oolite save game files and is back in the elite groove
[10:55] <mungojerry> anyone else play oolite?
[10:56] <diplo> Never heard of it...
[10:57] <einonm> is that an elite clone?
[10:58] <mungojerry> yes, it's amazing
[10:58] <mungojerry> has all the fun of the the original series
[10:58] <mungojerry> quite similar to arc elite if you've played it
[10:59] <mungojerry> you can play stric classic mode, but the cool thing its the huge array of expansions that the community have made
[10:59] <mungojerry> generation ships, cool missions, bloomberg markets etc
[10:59] <einonm> I used to play frontier quite a bit, but I seem to remember oolite never worked for me, openGL issues or something
[10:59] <mungojerry> what distro you on?
[11:00] <bashrc> what about oolite?
[11:01] <mungojerry> its great :)
[11:03] <einonm> this was Fedora at the time
[11:03] <mungojerry> works pretty well on all linux i thnk
[11:04] <mungojerry> lightdm has been slighlty problematic for some, and some ubuntus too, but now there's a tar.gz that you just put in /opt/oolite
[11:04] <mungojerry> and extract
[11:04] <einonm> I may give it a try if I ever get time - it was a good few years ago
[11:05] <mungojerry> scooped up a few thargon robot craft last night :D
[11:05] <mungojerry> alien items :)
[11:06] <popey> i just apt-got it and it works nicely
[11:07] <mungojerry> not the most recent in the repos
[11:08] <mungojerry> check out the list of exapnsions http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/OXP_List
[11:08] <mungojerry> some of the stuff is from the novella
[11:09] <mungojerry> docking with a deep space dredger, and collecting escape pods for insurance payouts
[11:10] <mungojerry> obviously you can trade ships etc now
[11:24] <dwatkins> apt-get, apt-got, has apt-gotten
[11:24] <mungojerry> i'm not sure if a better game exists actually
[11:24] <bashrc> apt-grab?
[11:24] <mungojerry> apt-acquire
[11:24] <mungojerry> apt-peruse instead of apt-cache search
[11:59] <hoover> hi folks
[12:57] <yellowwinner> im back
[13:03] <yellowwinner> gtg
[13:05] <popey> ok!
[13:19] <Bassetts> well, I have not been here for a while
[13:19] <Bassetts> how are all you lovely people?
[13:20] <popey> BARK BARK BARK Bassetts BARK BARK BARK!
[13:21] <Bassetts> not as friendly as I remember then :-p
[13:22] <popey> its a friendly bark
[13:22]  * Bassetts pets popey
[13:22] <popey> like you get when you've been away on holiday, talk wagging furiously, that kind of thing

[13:22] <Bassetts> the kind where some dogs get so excited they pee all over you?
[13:23] <popey> yes, that
[13:23] <Bassetts> oh dear
[13:27] <christel> :o
[13:28] <Bassetts> does anyone have some towels or something?
[13:31] <diplo> :q
[13:31] <diplo> Oops
[13:31] <diplo> :@P
[13:32] <Bassetts> anyway, how have you been popey, been a long time since we chatted
[13:41] <mgdm> Bassetts!
[13:45] <popey> Bassetts, oh the usual :)
[13:46] <Bassetts> mgdm! :-)
[13:48] <Bassetts> popey, technology, lug, UDS, foss etc? :-p
[13:49] <popey> yup
[13:49] <popey> pate
[13:49] <Bassetts> sounds good :-)
[13:50] <popey> i made some with lambs liver I got from the co-op for 60p :)
[13:50] <popey> tis yum
[13:50] <Bassetts> awesome
[13:51] <Bassetts> does anyone have C++ experience?
[13:52] <Bassetts> I need a good resource to learn it
[14:20] <AlanBell> directhex: so, should all the JSON containing stuff go to Debian non-free?
[14:20] <AlanBell> and can it get into Ubuntu like that?
[14:59] <diplo> Anyone tried the Xorg Edgers ppa for the new nvidia drivers which are supposed t odouble performance ?
[15:04] <awilkins> Not me
[15:05] <awilkins> Although was pleased with the 304 version which makes my dear old Mum's computer actually work instead of going  DEEEERRRRRRRP
[15:06] <awilkins> Do they double the performance of Unity? Saw a number of comments about them improving OpenGL performance when Compiz is enabled
[15:09] <ali1234> nvidia driver optimizations typically only affect one specific program
[15:09] <ali1234> in this case L4D2
[15:09] <ali1234> which we can't even play yet if we're not in the beta
[15:09] <ali1234> they usually have a detrimental effect on... all other software
[15:16] <awilkins> ali1234, I think these ones are just optimizations
[15:17] <awilkins> It comes out to about 10% faster than the Windows build in the end
[15:17] <ali1234> in one game
[15:17] <awilkins> Think that was a combiation of driver updates and Source engine patches
[15:17] <awilkins> And it's 4% when they backported some of the optimizations to thw Windows build
[15:19] <awilkins> " dramatically reduce game loading times " sounds like they sorted out a load of the memory transfer stuff which would probably translate to universal performance improvements
[15:27] <awilkins> If it was 1/2 the performance of the Windows build before, sounds like there were some serious issues
[15:28] <ali1234> i've never had performance issues
[15:28] <ali1234> though we are talking about 150 fps vs 300 fps when your monitor probably only does 60 fps
[15:28] <awilkins> Well, yes, you'd not notice
[15:29] <awilkins> And I don't play games on Linux much (yet)
[15:29] <ali1234> what i did notice is that shaders never work properly
[15:29] <ali1234> play any game where there are windows which are supposed to be transparent
[15:29] <ali1234> they're not
[15:31] <directhex> AlanBell, the json.org license doesn't apply to all implementations, just the specific implementations under the json.org license
[15:31] <directhex> AlanBell, and i don't think the code is distributable in non-free/multiverse
[15:32] <AlanBell> yeah, python-simplejson is fine for example
[15:33] <AlanBell> did you see that it fails the tentacles of evil test
[15:33] <ali1234> that what now?
[15:35] <shauno> I'm not sure it's safe to google tentacles at work.  google knows me too well.
[15:41]  * danfish installs the cinnamon desktop to see what it's like
[15:42] <directhex> Uplink, Darwinia, Amnesia updated to use 64-bit builds on 64-bit distros (fixing dependency issue in amnesia)
[15:43] <diplo> danfish: I've used it lot's of times
[15:43] <diplo> just kept getting io lockups
[15:43] <diplo> So dod oimon
[15:43] <diplo> did*
[15:44] <danfish> oh. I'll give it a whizz anyway, just out of curiosity. I don't mind Unirty TBH and use xfce on remote desktops
[15:44] <danfish> which work well
[15:45] <diplo> I use unity most of the time now
[15:46] <diplo> Especially since 12.10
[16:01] <mungojerry> diplo, you called?
[16:02] <mungojerry> yeah, got lockups on cinnamon, and also gnome shell
[16:49] <BigRedS> isn't cinnamon gnome shell with a bunch of extensions?
[16:53] <NET||abuse> where would people recomend for dedicated server hosting?
[16:54] <NET||abuse> i'm used to using hetzner, but requirement is UK based datacenter this time.
[16:55] <ali1234> BigRedS: yes
[16:55] <Azelphur> NET||abuse: I think kimsufi.co.uk ain't too bad
[16:56] <ali1234> i've got a question about hetzner actually
[16:56] <ali1234> one of my users wants to send an email to about 150 people
[16:56] <ali1234> am i going to have problems?
[16:57] <NET||abuse> 150, not at all
[16:57] <AlanBell> ali1234: that is not many at all
[16:57] <ali1234> it's going to be sent from the wordpress running on a hetzner dedi
[16:57] <NET||abuse> legitimate distribution list yets?
[16:57] <NET||abuse> ali1234: ye, don't worry your little head.
[16:58] <ali1234> the plugin has an option "limit bcc to 30 addresses" and then it sends multiple emails
[16:58] <NET||abuse> :P condecention much..
[16:58] <theopensourcerer> NET||abuse: Try Bytemark
[16:58] <ali1234> i suppose that the email will get split up by the postfix running on the dedi anyway right?
[16:58] <NET||abuse> Bytmark, oh, they sponsor good stuff, so why not :)(
[16:58] <theopensourcerer> we use Hetzner a lot - very happy so far.
[16:58] <ali1234> which will then send it out to all the different servers itself
[16:58] <directhex> mythic!
[16:59] <directhex> for all your rack-mounted mac mini needs
[16:59] <theopensourcerer> I would not think 150 emails would be a problem at all.
[16:59] <ali1234> i don't understand how email servers work anyway
[16:59] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: believe me, you don't want to
[16:59] <NET||abuse> ali1234: well sending more than 2 or 3k emails ina day then maybe you start to be suspicious :)
[16:59] <theopensourcerer> there be dragons...
[17:00] <ali1234> i believe that my local postfix contacts the receipient mailserver directly right?
[17:00] <NET||abuse> ali1234: ;yeh, be careful with postfix/other mta's, their channels are filled with meritocratic short tempered geeks.
[17:00] <NET||abuse> :P
[17:00] <NET||abuse> ali1234: meh, kinda
[17:01] <ali1234> so a mail from wordpress to @gmail.com goes wordpress/php -> postfix -> google smtp -> gmail
[17:01] <AlanBell> ali1234: it tries to, but might fail over to secondary MX
[17:01] <ali1234> it does not go through a hetzner smarthost first
[17:01] <AlanBell> no
[17:01] <NET||abuse> as long as you didn't configure it to, no
[17:01] <ali1234> so if there were a limit on my BCC, it would be in software that i control, basically
[17:01] <AlanBell> it goes to the MX which is possibly a relay to where it is going to be delivered in the end
[17:02] <ali1234> i've watched the postfix logs trying to debug another issue and seen it being greylisted by other random email servers etc
[17:02] <NET||abuse> ali1234: id' not use bcc lists, i'm not sure how your mta will deal with it, but if one address has issues, in a large list of them in a bcc, itj could block the other emails
[17:02] <ali1234> i think i need to set up SPF as well
[17:02] <ali1234> ah, so just send many individual emails?
[17:02] <NET||abuse> yes, if you are sending out even a moderate amount of mail, SPF records are good
[17:03] <NET||abuse> reveres that dns, baby..
[17:03] <ali1234> the plugin has an option for that so that's ok
[17:03] <NET||abuse> i'd use it
[17:03] <NET||abuse> go seperate, avoid clogging mta queues
[17:03] <ali1234> hmm, about SPF... i read that if i add a SPF record for the server it will make everything else look fake
[17:04] <NET||abuse> if it's a shared host, yes, that's annoying.
[17:04] <ali1234> my users got a gmail account configured to send as their domain
[17:04] <ali1234> also the server runs a load of other websites
[17:04] <NET||abuse> unless you actually have mx records for the other domains useing the named spf name as the mx record
[17:04] <NET||abuse> then it's fine.
[17:04] <ali1234> i don't want to break any of that stuff
[17:05] <NET||abuse> just add mx to the other domains on the box to use the spf name as an mx record.
[17:05] <NET||abuse> i think that satisfies most issues.
[17:05] <ali1234> nah, the server does not receive mail, it only sends it (ie sign up emails etc)
[17:08] <NET||abuse> yeh, but to have other servers say, your sending email for which domain, oh that one, ok
[17:08] <NET||abuse> your spf name appears in mx records for that domain, therefore we're ok with you sending email for that domain.
[17:08] <NET||abuse> basically.
[17:09] <ali1234> yeah, but i have to add an SPF record for gmail too or else it will stop working
[17:09] <NET||abuse> there's more to it than that i think, but more or less, that's why when you set MX ASPMX.L.GOOGLE.COM 5 for your mx records, it lets google send mail for your domain without issues.
[17:10] <NET||abuse> nooooooo
[17:10] <NET||abuse> hahahah
[17:10] <NET||abuse> everyone gets confused by this stuff
[17:10] <NET||abuse> at first
[17:10] <ali1234> yes.
[17:14] <shauno> setting google.com as an MX will make them receive for your domain too?
[17:14] <NET||abuse> yes, that's right,
[17:14] <NET||abuse> and setting an spf record allows them to be trusted, so sorry ali1234, I got completely mixed up in my head too,, seems i'm not clear on it myself.
[17:15] <ali1234> that's not what i want
[17:15] <shauno> for spf I have 'include:_spf.google.com' in the txt record
[17:15] <ali1234> i have a receiving mail server already, that forwards to gmail
[17:15] <shauno> descriptive text "v=spf1 a mx include:_spf.google.com -all"
[17:16] <shauno> A & MX refer to the dns records of the same type, the incdlue: delegates, and I don't remember what -all was for
[17:16] <ali1234> -all means "reject anything else"
[17:16] <NET||abuse> so don't do that :)
[17:17] <ali1234> that is - means fail, all means anything not already matched
[17:17] <shauno> well, for my site, anything that didn't come from my MX or google's delegate oughta fail
[17:17] <ali1234> yeah
[17:18] <ali1234> that's what i want
[17:19] <ali1234> so if i write a SPF record for a.com which mentions my MX IP, that won't affect it's abaility to send as b.com at all?
[17:20] <ali1234> this is why i always hate it when someone asks me "hey can i email all the users"
[17:23] <shauno> it shouldn't; that'd depend on b.com's record
[17:23] <ali1234> assuming sending mail works for b.com now, it should continue to work?
[17:24] <ali1234> i'll just try it :/
[17:24] <shauno> right.  the recieving end looks up the record for the from address, it doesn't go combing to see if anyone else on the planet has a record that matches
[17:24] <ali1234> yeah i guess that would allow ddos if i could say "i'm the only person allowed to send as gmail.com"
[17:24] <ali1234> that's just plain silly
[17:28] <ali1234> gandi zone file editor help: "You can leave comments, but they will not be saved."
[17:28] <ali1234> :(
[17:29] <ali1234> does this look reasonable: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1345685/
[17:29] <shauno> seems silly.  I imagine it's just so you can paste in existing records without breaking things, but surely saving them isn't too difficult
[17:29] <ali1234> hmm need to change the timeout
[17:31] <shauno> I think you've misunderstood the include: clause.  that just includes the spf records that _spf.google.com provides, it doesn't allow _spf.google.com
[17:31] <ali1234> maybe
[17:31] <shauno> so including yourself is recursive
[17:32] <ali1234> nah, i'm not including myself there
[17:32] <ali1234> but point taken
[17:32] <shauno> that's what include:<IP_ADDRESS> is trying to do
[17:33] <ali1234> "mx" should include gandi.net mail servers
[17:33] <ali1234> *allow
[17:33] <ali1234> actually it won't because reverse dns on that ip gives a different domain
[17:33] <shauno> right
[17:34] <ali1234> k,how about this: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1345698/
[17:35] <shauno> I think it's just ip4:, but that's more like it, yeah
[17:35] <ali1234> oops, you're right
[17:35] <shauno> just looking at ' host -t txt _spf.google.com' and assuming theirs works :)
[17:39] <BigRedS> ~all means that it's not taken *that* seriously anyway
[17:41] <shauno> right.  ~all is soft, so I get a header injected but still receive it (but can junk it with procmail later)
[17:42] <BigRedS> yeah
[17:43] <BigRedS> most mailers will consider it, but not treat an spf fail as a reason to block the mail
[17:43] <shauno> probably a sane idea while you're testing though
[17:44] <BigRedS> yeah, definitely
[17:44] <BigRedS> almost everyone's spf records are ~all
[17:44]  * popey spies SuperMatt playing Serious Sam 3
[17:46] <shauno> I guess I can afford hardfails because it's just me on my mx :)
[18:30] <ali1234> my dns changes don't seem to be propagating even though i have TTL set to 300
[18:31] <brobostigon> 300, by what scale. ?
[18:31] <ali1234> seconds
[18:32] <brobostigon> ali1234: last week, i had mine set to 10 minutes, and in the end, it took, closer to an hour, for the changes to have worked on my end.
[18:32] <ali1234> i'm querying directly the host's DNS server
[18:32] <ali1234> even that has not updated
[18:32] <brobostigon> ok.
[18:33] <brobostigon> no idea then.
[18:33] <ali1234> the authority section (which i cannot edit) has timeout 10800 (3 hours)
[18:33] <jacobw> evening
[18:33] <ali1234> will that affect TXT records?
[18:34] <brobostigon> no idea.
[18:34] <jacobw> if they're cached, yes
[18:34] <ali1234> oh wait, it's working now
[18:34] <ali1234> dig TXT @a.dns.gandi.net drumoff.tv
[18:34] <directhex> ali1234, you incremented the serial number?
[18:34] <ali1234> wat
[18:35] <ali1234> what serial number? i am confused now
[18:36] <ali1234> i guess the TTL is a lower bound
[18:37] <ali1234> cool, spf is working
[18:40] <AlanBell> http://design.canonical.com/ loving the design team's new blog layout. I now have *no* clue what order the posts are in
[18:41] <ali1234> is it pinterest style?
[18:41] <ali1234> it's not loading for me
[18:41] <AlanBell> october, january,october, september,november, august, august, october
[18:41] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: target release order?
[18:42] <ali1234> form over function
[18:42] <ali1234> pretty much what you expect from designers
[18:42] <AlanBell> it is a page of stuff and I have to read all the dates and internally peform max(date) to figure out which to read
[19:00] <Azelphur> Is there any easy way to send out like 30 emails, where only one word in the email differs for each one?
[19:05] <ali1234> mail merge
[19:10] <jacobw> that's kind of the definition of mail merge
[19:14] <AlanBell> Azelphur: if you want to go up a few orders of magnitude from there you could use an email marketing platform like openemm
[19:14] <AlanBell> {email marketing platform/spam engine}
[19:22] <Azelphur> AlanBell: haha, nah, I might just use python+smtp to do it
[19:22] <Azelphur> done a contest for my game servers, need to hand out the goodies to the winners :)
[19:24] <jacobw> http://docs.python.org/2/library/email-examples.html
[19:24] <jacobw> don't bother with smtplib, just make a milter
[19:25] <jacobw> parse in to object → rewrite body → generate rfc822 back to postfix
[19:27] <MartijnVdS> 2822
[19:29]  * Seeker` wonders what is wrong with popey
[19:47] <kvarley> I have a Samsung 535U3C and am running 12.04 on it. The wifi keeps dropping every 5-10 minutes. How can I check if I'm on the right driver for the wifi chip in it?
[20:05] <directhex> by not /parting before receiving a reply.
[20:07] <MartijnVdS> jpc
[21:20] <yellowwinner> hello again


[08:10] <lordievader> Good morning.
[10:15] <BluesKaj> 'Morning folks
[19:53] <roasted> hello friends