[20:02] <eFfeM> hi, I want to use "service" to restart networking (service networking restart), but I get "networking stop/waiting" google comes with a number of pages that suggest interference with NetworkManager, I already uninstalled that one but that does not help. btw /etc/init.d/networking start does work (but I'd rather use service as this is used on several places in a script I got
[20:02] <eFfeM> this is on 10.04.02


[07:09] <MartijnVdS> http://bropages.org/
[07:11] <foobarry> most of my fail2ban bans are from china
[07:12] <foobarry> "my" i mean directed at a few work servers
[07:14] <shauno> yeah. That'd always been my assumption too - that's why I found it interesting that I've logged more attempts from India than China.
[07:14] <foobarry> both big places
[07:15] <shauno> well, sorted by attempts; china win if you sort by unique IPs.  so I guess it's skewing towards people who'll try a bigger password list
[07:17] <foobarry> ok, so matches my fail2ban scenario
[07:17] <shauno> yeah.  you shouldn't see a lot of attempts from a single IP if you're banning them after x many
[07:19] <foobarry> so lenovo are getting the ibm servers
[07:20] <foobarry> will take a while to improve though. currently its  terrible to administer ibm servers
[07:46] <foobarry> CHINANET jiangsu province network
[07:46] <foobarry> nearly all fail2bans over last 24 hrs from there
[07:47] <foobarry> s/24/6/
[08:41] <popey> Morning
[09:36] <MartijnVdS> \o popey
[09:36] <MartijnVdS> popey: is the fsck done? :)
[09:36] <popey> it did finish, but it never boots
[09:36] <popey> will look again later
[10:02] <foobarry> "mario kart gives me breath, because i can play sitting down".
[10:02] <foobarry> the answer to why he didn't want to play wii golf
[10:03] <foobarry> lazy teenager already at 4?
[10:22] <Myrtti> I know this isn't the most brilliant thing around and it's got some flaws, but https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/751733865/smartscope-reinventing-the-oscilloscope
[10:22] <Myrtti> might still be interesting to some
[10:29] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[10:30] <MartijnVdS> \o
[10:30] <brobostigon> morning MartijnVdS
[10:36] <foobarry> elementary are developing shotwell now?  i thought shotwell would be better than geary for yorba.
[12:10] <foobarry> feel bad for watching click without my son
[12:11] <brobostigon> click is on in 20mins, i think.
[12:15] <foobarry> i recorded it
[12:15] <foobarry> dont take chances on live tv with little kids
[12:19] <foobarry> heh http://ahprojects.com/projects/camoflash
[12:31] <foobarry> i spy ubuntu on click
[12:32] <foobarry> on the robot section
[12:33] <brobostigon> :)
[13:03] <knightwise> afternoon guys
[13:04] <brobostigon> quick visit.
[13:05] <brobostigon> wb knightwise
[13:05] <knightwise> hey there
[13:05] <knightwise> how are you bro
[13:05] <brobostigon> not bad, and you?
[13:08] <knightwise> doing ok.. Wife sleeping on the couch
[13:08] <knightwise> taking the time to tinker on the computer a bit
[13:08] <knightwise> jsut installed the tor browser and stuff
[13:10] <brobostigon> :)
[13:10] <knightwise> and torify is a pretty cool command when you think of it :)
[13:10] <knightwise> firefox vs torify firefox :)
[13:11] <brobostigon> i similerly like orbot on my droids.
[13:15] <knightwise> do you need root for that ?
[13:15] <knightwise> probably right ?
[13:16] <brobostigon> nope.
[13:16] <knightwise> ah
[13:16]  * knightwise googles orbot
[13:17] <knightwise> sounds very interesting
[13:17] <knightwise> especially when you are on open wifi and stuff
[13:17] <brobostigon> however you can run it on root, and it adds a few more features to it.
[13:17] <brobostigon> yes.
[13:18] <brobostigon> i do however have openvpn setup, for that aswell.
[13:18]  * knightwise needs to get openvpn working on his router
[13:19] <knightwise> should not be that hard though.
[13:19] <knightwise> I have an asus AC66U with Merlin
[13:19]  * brobostigon points knightwise at MartijnVdS's blog for guideance.
[13:19] <knightwise> Url again ?
[13:19] <knightwise> (me needs to subscribe)
[13:19] <brobostigon> let me try and find it.
[13:21] <brobostigon> i cant find it, :(
[13:21] <knightwise> no prob , i'll ding him when I see him
[13:21] <brobostigon> :)
[13:23]  * knightwise needs some tea
[13:53] <popey> http://dhmholley.co.uk/civclicker.html IS FUN
[13:53] <popey> -caps
[14:19] <penguin42> popey: Ahem - damn you, that's some time wasted :-)
[14:20] <popey> yeah, fun isnt it?
[15:21] <shauno> okay, I'm missing something - where does Ore come from?
[15:29] <Myrtti> stone
[15:29] <Myrtti> if you upgrade miners
[15:30] <Myrtti> popey: I hate you
[15:36] <shauno> but I need 10 ore to upgrade miners.  I seem to be stuck in a catch-22 there
[15:38] <directhex> fire your smiths
[15:38] <directhex> same when you need leather, fire your tanners
[15:39] <shauno> no smiths, seemed silly with no ore  lol
[15:39] <shauno> I just did ore.total=10 on the error console, jump-started that catch-22 :)
[16:04] <DJones> Heh, friend just sent me a link to this http://www.sadanduseless.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/2581.jpg possibly something you'd agree with Myrtti  especially when you hear people in the uk commenting on cold weather
[16:05] <Myrtti> http://lordeh.tumblr.com/image/2899693012
[16:06] <DJones> Thats not quite the normal pic's he sends, but yes the sentiment is very similar
[16:10] <Myrtti> it's the garden swing picture, isn't it?
[16:11] <DJones> I think the last picture was his car under about 6 feet of snow
[16:12] <DJones> Or quirky ones like this https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/t1/q71/s720x720/1533886_10203231754453931_1018423267_n.jpg
[16:20] <DJones> Myrtti: You mentioned the garden swing picture.... https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/168420_1854126432164_5913589_n.jpg
[16:21] <Myrtti> http://isjkl.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/meanwhile-in-finland.jpg?w=720
[16:21] <DJones> Is that typical of the whole country in winter, or do different areas get affected differently
[16:23] <Myrtti> well you can see the amount of snow now-ish http://www.flickr.com/photos/myrtti/12067909824/ from the edge of the planter
[16:23] <Myrtti> I suspect there's less snow on the southern coast
[16:23] <DJones> Friend moved to Jyväskylä from the UK about 5 years ago after speaking/meeting his partner on facebook, brave to do that, but they're a good match for each other
[16:37] <Myrtti> AlanBell: what happened to your cloak!
[16:48] <AlanBell> Myrtti: I appear to have fallen off the internet
[16:49] <Myrtti> you have
[16:51] <AlanBell> Myrtti: lots of weather is happening, it might have something to do with that
[16:51] <Myrtti> indeed
[16:54] <MartijnVdS> weather? where?
[16:57] <popey> ♥
[16:57] <popey> a tree fell on a car at frimley park hospital just now
[16:58] <popey> yay, went out to take sam to a party, come back to 176K piety
[17:12] <Myrtti> well atleast this makes a little bit more sense than Settlers online
[17:23]  * AlanBell is looking forward to haggis
[17:25] <mapps> yea the weather's pretty bad..i wokeup to rain banging on my windows and thunder and lightnoing!
[17:26] <Myrtti> very very frightning
[17:26] <Myrtti> sorry
[17:26] <Myrtti> I'll see myself out
[17:26] <MartijnVdS> galileo?
[17:27] <mapps> well
[17:27] <mapps> Myrtti, the prospect of having to walk to work i that weather was frightening
[17:27] <mapps> :P
[17:50] <TheProphetS> Hi all
[17:50] <MartijnVdS> \o
[17:53] <TheProphetS> I have a problem with ubuntu 13.10. I could not see the mouse pointer and fonts were super large so I tried removing nvidia drivers and reinstalling them but now I the screen is just black, I see grub, but Ubuntu does not show. I am pretty positive it gets to the login screen but I can't see anything. I have an intel card as well and the pc is connected to an LG tv
[17:53] <MartijnVdS> what happens when you connect the screen to the intel card?
[17:53] <MartijnVdS> it might be seeing the wrong one first, and using that
[17:54] <TheProphetS> I can see the screen but no pointer and large fonts just like it was with the nvidia
[17:54] <MartijnVdS> Did it work and break later, or did it never work?
[17:54] <MartijnVdS> Does the installer show correctly?
[17:55] <TheProphetS> It always worked
[17:55] <TheProphetS> The installer you mean the nvidia one? I was using the repository drivers
[17:55] <MartijnVdS> what broke it then?
[17:56] <MartijnVdS> no, I mean the Ubuntu installer :)
[17:56] <MartijnVdS> did that also have big fonts?
[17:56] <TheProphetS> Never had big fonts before
[17:56] <TheProphetS> And could always see the pointer
[17:56] <MartijnVdS> so, what changed to make that happen?
[17:56] <TheProphetS> I'm guessing an update of some sort
[17:57] <TheProphetS> I run aptitude safe-upgrade usually to be on the safe side of things
[17:58] <MartijnVdS> hmm
[17:58] <MartijnVdS> I don't have nvidia, so I don't know if I can help you
[17:58] <MartijnVdS> popey might know, he always knows.
[17:59] <TheProphetS> Is there a way to remove all nvidia stuff and maybe unity as well , and would that help?
[17:59] <MartijnVdS> I doubt it
[17:59] <popey> how did you remove the nvidia drivers?
[18:00] <TheProphetS> Also when I connect to the intel card I can't see the virtual terminals, I just see the still image of X
[18:00] <TheProphetS> Sudo apt-get purge nvidia*
[18:00] <popey> and how did you install them?
[18:01] <TheProphetS> Sudo apt-get install nvidia-current
[18:01] <popey> you may have removed something else that's needed
[18:01] <popey> try "sudo apt-get install ubuntu-dsktop^"
[18:01] <popey> er
[18:01] <popey> sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop^
[18:02] <TheProphetS> Is it ok if I do it when connected to the intel card? I can't seem to find a way to access the other virtual terminals
[18:02] <popey> yes
[18:08] <TheProphetS> I'm gonna have to try safe mode now, can't even see the login screen with the intel card now, or at least I could see it for a few seconds and then it went blank
[18:10] <TheProphetS> I mean recovery mode, sorry
[18:16] <TheProphetS> Ubuntu-desktop is already the newest version apparently
[18:19] <TheProphetS> At the moment I have the nvidia 304 driver installed
[18:22] <TheProphetS> But also nvidia-driver, nvidia-glx, nvidia-kernel-amd64, nvidia-kernel-dkms, and many others are NOT installed, is that wrong?
[18:23] <Myrtti> this made me chuckle. http://imgur.com/gallery/ulwiHGy
[18:23] <MartijnVdS> Myrtti: custom status messages \o/ :)
[18:23] <MartijnVdS> we used to do that at uni
[18:24] <Myrtti> (also, sorry for the language on the first image)
[18:26] <bigcalm> Evening peeps :)
[18:26] <popey> TheProphetS:  you need the ^ on the end
[18:26] <MartijnVdS> \o bigcalm
[18:27] <popey> bigcalm: hows the laptop?
[18:27] <TheProphetS> Popey I have unmet dependencies
[18:27] <popey> can you pastebin it?
[18:27] <bigcalm> popey: pretty sweet. Glad I bought it :)
[18:28] <popey> 18:22:11 < TheProphetS> But also nvidia-driver, nvidia-glx, nvidia-kernel-amd64, nvidia-kernel-dkms, and many others are NOT installed, is that wrong?
[18:28] <popey> TheProphetS: yes, because you removed nvidia* which was a bad thing to do
[18:28] <bigcalm> Oh, is nVidia working properly in 14.04 yet? :)
[18:29] <TheProphetS> Unmet dependencies are for libgoa-1.0-0
[18:29] <popey> can you pastebin the full output?
[18:29] <popey> sudo apt-get install pastebinit
[18:29] <popey> sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop^ | pastebinit
[18:29] <popey> then give us the link
[18:31] <TheProphetS> I am using the root shell from the recovery mode and I think I'm not connected right now, gonna try and get online from the shell
[18:32] <TheProphetS> Although I shouldn't since its a root shell
[18:33] <popey> do  you have wired or wifi?
[18:34] <TheProphetS> Wifi
[18:34] <TheProphetS> Maybe there's a way to start in text mode
[18:34] <popey> there is
[18:34] <MartijnVdS> there is, it's rescue mode
[18:34] <DJones> !text
[18:34] <popey> \o/
[18:35] <MartijnVdS> oh?
[18:35]  * MartijnVdS learns something new
[18:39] <TheProphetS> Dunno what I've done exactly but I managed to start a shell and install pastebinit
[18:39] <TheProphetS> A proper login shell from recovery mode
[18:40] <TheProphetS> Http://paste.ubuntu.com/6815808
[18:41] <popey> TheProphetS: do you have any PPAs enabled in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ ?
[18:41] <TheProphetS> Sorry about the capital H
[18:41] <popey> i suspect you have the gnome3 team ppa enabled
[18:42] <TheProphetS> Yes
[18:42] <popey> do you use gnome shell?
[18:43] <TheProphetS> Not really, just when unity breaks or when something new comes up in gnome shell
[18:43] <popey> ah
[18:43] <popey> well that's contributing to your woes a bit
[18:43] <TheProphetS> Should I purge it? I don't mind really
[18:43] <popey> but probably unrelated to the nvidia issue
[18:43] <popey> maybe ☻
[18:44] <popey> i probably would, to get back to stock. you can always try and re-add later
[18:44] <MartijnVdS> popey: a different gtk setting could lead to big fonts -- dpi stuff
[18:44] <popey> true
[18:44] <popey> good point!
[18:44] <TheProphetS> Gnome-shell is not installed at the moment
[18:45] <popey> but other related things are
[18:45] <popey> which one do you have?
[18:46] <popey> gnome3, gnome3-next or gnome3-staging >
[18:46] <popey> ?
[18:46] <popey> basically "sudo apt-get install ppa-purge" then "sudo ppa-purge ppa:gnome3-team/gnome3" or "/gnome3-next" or "/gnome3-staging" depending on which one you have in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/
[18:46] <popey> i need to go and bath the kids
[18:47] <popey> (not an euphemism)
[18:47] <TheProphetS> Ok enjoy the bath :-) thank you!
[18:51] <TheProphetS> Have you tried SteamOS yet?
[18:52] <maps|work> not i
[18:53] <TheProphetS> How about the 14.04 LTS?
[19:06] <maps|work> na im way back on 13.10 :)
[19:06] <maps|work> im always quite slow to upgrade
[19:07] <maps|work> what are you running?
[19:12] <maps|work> hi apache
[19:29] <maps|work> http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57617743-93/does-your-isp-throttle-bittorrent-traffic-find-out/?part=rss&subj=news&tag=title
[19:29] <maps|work> http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57617743-93/does-your-isp-throttle-bittorrent-traffic-find-out/?part=rss&subj=news&tag=title
[19:30] <maps|work> UKs higher than i thought
[19:30] <maps|work> whereas the United Kingdom was the second most throttled country in Europe with 28 percent,
[19:31] <shauno> if only that was the biggest thing wrong with connectivity in the UK
[19:32] <maps|work> well yea i just wish i could get cable or FTC
[19:32] <maps|work> who are you with
[19:33] <shauno> I haven't lived in the UK for 13 years.  so my last there was freeserve
[19:33] <maps|work> ah wow that was ages back i had freeserve whgen it was dialup and pcworld ran it or something iirc
[19:33] <maps|work> where'd you live now? Spain?
[19:37] <shauno> hah, I wish.  Ireland for now
[19:39] <shauno> I'm on UPC.  they appear to be in roughly half of europe.  they do block tpb due to court process, but other than that, I'm glad it doesn't resemble the UK too closely
[19:40] <maps|work> yea this lame blocking torrent sites is just dumb..it's just like whack-a-mole block one domain a new one pops up
[19:41] <maps|work> even if they block the domain and associated IP it hardly stops it.. a quick google of tpb and any idiot can get round the UK block
[19:41] <shauno> I pay for 120, usually get closer to 150-180 depending on time of day, and don't have "think of the children" filtering.  For me, it's about as good as it gets without moving to the Netherlands
[19:43] <maps|work> lol think of the children you mean all this talk abourt blocking porn/suicide sites/violence etc? what a load of nonsense - these filters are operating atm but not enforced and existing customers have to opt in but IIRC you'll have to opt out in the future
[19:44] <maps|work> its all a totla waste of tme..
[19:44] <shauno> it sounds kinda idealistic, but it doesn't bother me what they're blocking.  it bothers me that they've now built the infrastructure, so they can add anything they like, whenever they like
[19:44] <maps|work> what do you mean about add anything they like?
[19:45] <maps|work> yea it is idealistic..I mean it's not practical..how easy is it to circumvent..be it a proxy or a VPN or a web based proxy so the user needn even have to know how to setup an http proxy/vpn server
[19:46] <maps|work> i.e. tpbunblocked.me any fool can click that - and the filtering of websites leads to sites being blocked thjat shouldnt be i.e. the UK filter has ended u blocking some sex education sites/rape charity sites..clearly not intended
[19:47] <shauno> it's a "slippery slope" scenario.  If the filters don't exist, you can just say "not technically feasible" any request
[19:47] <maps|work> yep..where do they stop i hate talk about censoring the net..its like parents that say ask.fm needs to be monitorred or shut down
[19:48] <maps|work> how would that wo0rk..shutdown ask.fm and the next day a new one opens up under a differnt name/different location...if people want to find a way to access stuff they will
[19:48] <shauno> once they do, "omgz child porn" turns into "protect the copyright holders" turns into "there's an injunction about x scandal involving y football player", and it winds up being full-scale thought police far too quickly
[19:48] <maps|work> look at how the darkweb (tor) is full of child porn apparently - well they cant filter that
[19:48] <maps|work> yea
[19:49] <maps|work> but then no one country/person owns the internet so they can never FULLY filter it
[19:49] <shauno> I guess my issue is that being able to say no to everything was far more trustworthy than letting some civil servant decide what to say no to
[19:50] <maps|work> what do you mean being able to say no to everything?
[19:54] <shauno> well, when the simple excuse was that it wasn't possible.  the simple, innocent days
[19:56] <maps|work> will this uk wide filter last or will it exist for a bit and eventually be scrapped?!
[19:57] <shauno> I hope it won't last, but I don't hold my hopes high.  the chances of finding enough politicians willing to stand the "fighting to allow child porn" flak is unlikely
[19:58] <shauno> I do hope for a lot more transparency.  we should have access to a full list of what's filtered, why, at who's request.  and requests that are pending/denied.
[19:58] <shauno> that would inspire a lot more confidence in whoever gets to tick the boxes
[19:58] <maps|work> thing is it cant be maintained..each isp has their own filter and its based on algorithms..not someone manually adding/removbing..surely its too time consuming to  have to manually add/remove sites
[20:01] <shauno> what I do find an interesting mental exercise; I'm currently in the process of moving to central/eastern europe.  "the other side of the curtain" by all accounts.  and I find it interesting to see things from their point of view
[20:01] <penguin42> shauno: Where about?
[20:02] <shauno> 40 years to oust the russian, often a price paid in blood; and the net result is that they now have a different name for big brother.  that feels like a huge letdown
[20:02] <shauno> penguin42: slovakia
[20:03] <penguin42> shauno: Interesting, I don't know anyone who has gone there
[20:03] <maps|work> not sure what you mean? you mean becuase they used to be russian controlled and now arent
[20:03] <maps|work> ive been to Czech republic (formerly czechoslovakia) and was meant to go to Bratislava few months back but couldnt..will go sometime this year
[20:03] <shauno> because it used to be the stazi trying to monitor what they read, who they talked to, etc, and now there's western govts doing exactly the same thing much more efficiently
[20:03] <penguin42> yeh, I know people in Brno
[20:04] <shauno> I've only been to brno once.  it wasn't my idea, it was ryanair's :|
[20:04] <penguin42> shauno: It shouldn't really be too much of a surprise to anyone - after all Cryptography was pretty much banned in France until fairly recently
[20:04] <maps|work> hm howcome you meant to Brno and not PRAGUE
[20:05] <shauno> brno was the closest airport to where we were meant to be going (bts/bratislava)
[20:05] <maps|work> AHH
[20:05] <maps|work> yea there's no airport in bratislava right? when i was looking a lot of flights were to austria then transfer i think?
[20:05] <penguin42> that is bizarre; http://www.apartmenttherapy.com/rearrange-your-office-easy-wit-143995
[20:06] <shauno> my only impressions were that it's a scary airport; they still have doors marked in cyrillic before passport
[20:06] <penguin42> (in a great way)
[20:06] <shauno> bratislava has a pretty decent airport.  it feels like grant money; completely overdone for their needs
[20:07] <MartijnVdS> lots of airports are like that
[20:07] <shauno> so ryanair fly their rather than vienna because it's much cheaper, but only a 1hr bus transfer to vienna
[20:07] <shauno> but the airport is so quiet that they still meet every flight with a fire engine
[20:08] <shauno> it honestly feels like you've just walked in on one big charade.  and I've been there .. I think 20 times in the last 24 months
[20:08] <MartijnVdS> shauno: Bratislava? Why go so often?
[20:09] <shauno> because I'm simple, and there's a girl involved
[20:10] <MartijnVdS> Maybe she gets the firetrucks to go out and greet your plane? :)
[20:11] <shauno> I'm trying not to be an idiot about it, but the job market looks fantastic from my POV.
[20:11] <shauno> overall they're basically assembly lines.  last I heard they produce more cars per capita than any other country globally
[20:11] <penguin42> shauno: Generally it seems pretty good at the moment
[20:12] <MartijnVdS> work-from-home jobs work from everywhere, also, development jobs are everywhere (local and "remote" work)
[20:12] <shauno> but there's a lot of multinationals just begging for anyone who doesn't think that networks are pure voodoo.  and a lot of the same multinationals that have to meet employment goals of native english-speakers
[20:12] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: Nod
[20:13] <MartijnVdS> one of the few jobs that have seen very little decline, software dev
[20:14] <shauno> dell, amazon, at&t, novell, ibm, etc.  just crying out for anybody at all, with a heavy preference to native english speakers
[20:14] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: Oh it's because as more developers are added we manage to make bigger, more complex systems that have more places to add more developers - goto START
[20:14] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: sounds like.. a job security machine
[20:15] <maps|work> hm there's an airport in Bratislava? howcome they fly to Vienna and you have to go from there then on most flights?
[20:15] <MartijnVdS> maps|work: vienna airport is bigger, more flights go to it
[20:16] <maps|work> aha
[20:16] <MartijnVdS> maps|work: bratislava airport is probably a lot cheaper to land at (hence ryanair)
[20:16] <maps|work> when i looked on expedia i didnt see a single direct flight to BTS airport
[20:17] <maps|work> if its cheaper why wouldnt more fly direct
[20:17] <maps|work> direct seems better?
[20:17] <MartijnVdS> maps|work: ryanair doesn't allow (m)any third parties to access their flight data
[20:17] <jussi> ryanscare dont usually come on the agregated searches
[20:17] <shauno> yeah, ryanair don't like indexers.  they dont' want "we're the cheapest" to be a question
[20:17] <maps|work> ah
[20:17] <maps|work> but jet2 dont fly direct for example
[20:18] <jussi> vienna is a very big airport... a major hub iirc.
[20:18] <maps|work> and ryanair was horrible when i flew to majorcaused -used jet2 for Prague and KLM for Holland both way better..do any others than ryan air fly direct??
[20:18] <shauno> ryanair are about the only 'western' carrier I've found that do
[20:18] <maps|work> ahh ok thought so..damn flying direct would be way better!!!! oi know you can get easily from vienna to bts but its a hassle - how long does it take?
[20:19] <MartijnVdS> maps|work: Ryanair to the Netherlands flies to Eindhoven. Which is almost as far from Amsterdam as Birmingham is from London
[20:19] <shauno> it's about an hour by bus, and about the same by rail
[20:20] <maps|work> I flew to Schiphol very big airport
[20:20] <jussi> MartijnVdS: oh come on, doesnt the netherlands fit into Birmingham? :P
[20:20] <shauno> annoyingly, by rail is *much* cheaper from bratislava to vienna, than the reverse
[20:20] <MartijnVdS> jussi: shush
[20:20] <jussi> hehe
[20:20] <MartijnVdS> maps|work: Schiphol is a great airport.. and I've seen a few :)
[20:20] <MartijnVdS> SFO isn't bad either
[20:20] <jussi> I love schiphol.
[20:20] <maps|work> yes , I had a McDonalds and heineken for my pre flight meal
[20:20] <jussi> Helsinki is also nice.
[20:20] <shauno> last I used the trains there, it was e15 for a bts-vnn return, and e40 for vnn-bts one-way.  and starting in bratislava bought you access to vienna's public transport for 24hrs
[20:20] <maps|work> hey MartijnVdS howcome everywhere on Holland was Heineken? very rarely saw say Amstel or anything else?
[20:21] <maps|work> but Amstel is nice
[20:21] <jussi> but then again... avoid CDG like the plague...
[20:21] <maps|work> Heineken was EVERYWHERE
[20:21] <MartijnVdS> maps|work: yes, and we HATE it :)
[20:21] <maps|work> yes so why is it everywhere?
[20:21] <maps|work> what do you like?
[20:21] <jussi> price....?
[20:21] <shauno> http://www.bts.aero/en/passengers/flight-information/current-arrivals/  gives you an idea of who uses BTS.  it's pretty much ryanair and a bunch of airlines you've never heard of
[20:21] <MartijnVdS> maps|work: well, I'm biased, my brothers are brewers ;)
[20:21] <MartijnVdS> maps|work: http://www.vandestreek-bier.nl/
[20:21] <maps|work> ah
[20:22] <maps|work> you dont like Amstel either? amstel and groslch were both fine but rarely saw them
[20:22] <maps|work> heineken was expensive most places nearly 6 euros
[20:22] <MartijnVdS> maps|work: it's all mass-produced. I prefer beer from smaller/local breweries -- much more interesting taste than plain pilsner
[20:22] <shauno> paris was the worst I've found yet.  for 8e you can get a bartender to laugh at you.  to add liquid goes up from there
[20:23] <MartijnVdS> shauno: ask for wine instead?
[20:23] <maps|work> lol shauno
[20:23] <shauno> I'm not a big wine guy
[20:24] <maps|work> so noo other airline flies direct to BTS that sucks - so is it best to fly direct with ryan air and just make do with rubbish airline or fly with someone else and do a transfer from vienna?
[20:24] <shauno> it works as long as it's cloyingly dry.  it's difficult express that in a bar that speaks Foreignese
[20:24] <shauno> personally, I stick with ryanair.  despite the reputation, they're pretty decent as long as you're willing to play the game
[20:25] <maps|work> i mean sure theyre ok but damn i mean there reaqlly isnt any room KLM/jet2 was way more comfortable
[20:25] <shauno> but I do have a bias that I'm in the republic, and there's not so many flying from here  (it's difficult to penetrate ryanair's home turf)
[20:25] <jussi> maps|work: its a short flight...
[20:25] <maps|work> true
[20:25] <MartijnVdS> shauno: "un vin sec s'il vous plaît"
[20:25] <maps|work> but it was still nicer on klm and jet2:D
[20:26] <MartijnVdS> speaking of French
[20:26] <maps|work> if it wasnt a short flight..wouldnt even consider!
[20:26] <shauno> I've developed a very useful talent.  I'm usually asleep before they've finished boarding, let alone flying
[20:26] <MartijnVdS> I need to book a hotel there :)
[20:26] <maps|work> hey MartijnVdS  i went to amsterdam dungeons on my last day in Holland..that was fun!!
[20:26] <maps|work> we were just walking around killing some time ..we'd checked out of hotel and flight home was later that evening
[20:26] <MartijnVdS> maps|work: I've never been to those
[20:27] <MartijnVdS> (and I work in Amsterdam..)
[20:27] <shauno> it helps that my regular flight requires me to leave the house at 1am, to make a bus for a 6am flight and a 10am arrival.  passing out as soon as I'm sat down is almost mandatory
[20:27] <jussi> shauno: ouch
[20:27] <maps|work> i hadnt been to any of them before .id heard of london dungeons but hadnt been..it was cool man!
[20:28] <maps|work> i still remember the young girl..near Hard Rock cafe 'yes it is ok to cycle at night you wont get raped here' :D think she maybe meant something different
[20:28] <jussi> maps|work: can you play dungeons and dragons there? :P
[20:28] <shauno> it works out surprisingly well.  3 hours of doze on the bus, 3 hours of sleep on the plane, and I'm good to go when we land
[20:28] <shauno> a'dam is strange for that.  it's okay to cycle pretty much anywhere.  walking or driving is scary - militant cyclists hide around every corner
[20:29] <maps|work> yep cars..tram..cyclists..walking around is tough!!
[20:29] <penguin42> shauno: You've just given me a mental image of someone on a penny-black with a machine gun
[20:29] <shauno> penguin42: that wouldn't be far off.  the cyclists 'run' a'dam.
[20:29] <maps|work> hah jussi  :D honestly though its way cooler than i thought it'd be id like to go to the london dungeons at some point now after how good amsterdam one was
[20:30] <shauno> I did like amsterdam though.  it's on the short list of places I'd live in by choice
[20:31] <maps|work> not sure i would
[20:31] <maps|work> too used to the uk. MartijnVdS  you live near central ams?
[20:31] <shauno> the center is impossibly cute, and they're absurdly friendly for what's essentially a germanic people
[20:32] <shauno> I'm not used to the UK; I left at 20.  and you honestly couldn't pay me to go back
[20:32] <penguin42> this Virgin router is very broken; it's showing my netbook which is connected to 1) the wifi on the router, (192.168.0.x?) and via ether via another NAT layer with the NATd address and showing it under the Wireless devices that's impossible
[20:32] <penguin42> shauno: We won't bite
[20:33] <MartijnVdS> maps|work: I live ~40km from the centre of Amsterdam, in a small town :)
[20:33] <maps|work> im confused penguin42  so it is using wifi but u say it isnt?
[20:33] <MartijnVdS> maps|work: one hour by bus, or 30 minutes by car (but no affordable parking spots available..)
[20:34] <maps|work> cycle!
[20:34] <penguin42> maps|work: It's showing it connected via the wifi (which it is) but showing it's internal wired address on the wifi pane
[20:34] <shauno> penguin42: a large part of my problem is that I find that difficult to believe
[20:34] <penguin42> shauno: Haha - where in the UK were you?
[20:35] <shauno> portsmouth, plymouth, oxford, newcastle, barrow (south lakes), and near helensburgh
[20:35] <shauno> errr near glasgow (helensburgh)
[20:35] <penguin42> hmm, never been to any of those places
[20:35] <maps|work> portsmouths ok
[20:35] <maps|work> lived there when i was at uni
[20:36] <shauno> my last visit to the UK .. I wandered from the bar to the nearest corner shop to buy smokes.  I accidentally reached into the wrong pocket and produced a 10e note instead of a 10gbp note
[20:36] <shauno> they didn't just laugh at me.  they grabbed my jacket and pushed me out the door
[20:37] <shauno> while, yes, I was rather drunk - I wasn't antisocially so - I'm far too much of an introvert for that.  but I've lived england, scotland, ireland, the US, and I've never been treated like that anywhere but 'home turf'
[20:38] <maps|work> =[
[20:38] <penguin42> :-(
[20:38] <shauno> (that was newcastle city center, but I honestly don't have a better opinion of anywhere that uses 'innit' in a sentence)
[20:38] <maps|work> i find the red light just so funny MartijnVdS  :D how its a normal bar then 3 hookers in a window :D
[20:39] <shauno> I thought my scheme of carrying euros in left-hand pockets and sterling in right-hand pockets was genius.  oh well
[20:39] <maps|work> best solution
[20:39] <maps|work> stop smoking
[20:39] <maps|work> !
[20:39] <jussi> see, here in .fi, cash is almost unknown... excet for somethiing you use in the slot machines in service stations :P
[20:40] <MartijnVdS> similar in .nl
[20:40] <shauno> I'm kinda scared of plastic  lol
[20:40] <penguin42> uses plastic for most stuff
[20:40] <MartijnVdS> though some people use cash almost exclusively
[20:40] <shauno> I had a bad experience, not long after I moved here from the US.  I only got a credit card because the debit scheme in ireland is unheard of anywhere else, and I live on the internet
[20:40] <maps|work> in pub MartijnVdS ? have to use cash
[20:41] <shauno> so I went to a job interview in london, went to check-in at the hotel, and required my CC pin for the first time ever.  I had no idea what it was.  very awkward
[20:41] <MartijnVdS> maps|work: Nah, you can use cards in most now
[20:41] <maps|work> for just 1 beer?!
[20:41] <MartijnVdS> maps|work: sure
[20:41] <maps|work> oh didnt know often pubs/bars have 10GBP minimu
[20:42] <shauno> I try to use my card where I Can just because it makes accounting easier, but I try to make sure I have enough cash to cover eventualities
[20:42] <penguin42> some shops do as well
[20:42] <MartijnVdS> maps|work: they lowered transaction costs here to have shops accept cards for lower amounts
[20:42] <shauno> minimums tend to apply to credit but not debit, fwiw
[20:42] <MartijnVdS> the "we use your credit card as a tab" system is unknown here though :( Like that bit of pubs in the UK :)
[20:43] <maps|work> yes MartijnVdS  have you been to cz? totally diff there its all on tab --- get a beer..sit down tab get another etc
[20:43] <shauno> long ago I worked in 'service' .. processing charges on credit were a percentage with a fixed minimum, charges on debit were just the fixed minimum
[20:43] <maps|work> very different to UK
[20:43] <directhex> cash
[20:43] <directhex> seriously
[20:44] <directhex> it's 2014 and we trade using shiny pebbles
[20:44] <directhex> i mean, wtf?
[20:44] <MartijnVdS> maps|work: I've been to Prague. Horrible city.
[20:44] <maps|work> ya but sometimes they charge you to use a card in a shop too remember
[20:44] <maps|work> :(
[20:44] <shauno> prague is pretty but unfriendly.  bratislava is ugly but friendly :)
[20:45] <MartijnVdS> shauno: when I was there, prague was ugly and unfriendly
[20:45] <MartijnVdS> though beer was cheaper than water
[20:45] <maps|work> i thought bratislava was meant to be nice not ugly - MartijnVdS  people sya Prague is beautiful and also a lot of locals have poor english..not like NL
[20:45] <shauno> hah, yeah, BA is the same.  cans are cheaper than plastic, and plastic is cheaper than glass.  the contents appear to be irrelevant
[20:46] <maps|work> guy in a bar in the redlight (guess he was the man running it) said that the people he finds the most annoying are Italians in Holland
[20:46] <MartijnVdS> maps|work: macho shouty guys?
[20:47] <shauno> everyone finds italians annoying, but you didn't hear that from me
[20:47] <MartijnVdS> maps|work: that's the stereotype anyway
[20:47] <maps|work> i think he said theyre sleazy too
[20:47] <maps|work> yea
[20:47] <MartijnVdS> There are lots of people who believe everyone is the stereotype :)
[20:47] <shauno> I have a problem with italians at work, where they appear to think italian is an international language
[20:47] <MartijnVdS> I try to avoid stereotype-thinking as much as possible
[20:48] <maps|work> lol shauno
[20:48] <MartijnVdS> shauno: and the handwaving!
[20:48] <shauno> less so the handwaving, cisco's voip doesn't stretch that far
[20:48] <MartijnVdS> shauno: reply in clerical latin then
[20:49] <shauno> but as far as I'm concerned, international languages are english, podonghua, german, and french.  in that order.   italians disagree.
[20:50] <penguin42> podonghua?
[20:50] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: "standard chinese", mandarin
[20:50] <shauno> what we call mandarin, is a very bad stereotype; 'mandarins' were politicians.  potonghua is "the people's language"
[20:50] <MartijnVdS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Chinese
[20:50] <daftykins> ooh, interesting
[20:51] <penguin42> oh, interesting fact of the day :-)
[20:51] <jennie> hello
[20:51] <MartijnVdS> shauno: in Dutch, the tiny sweet orange citrus fruit are called "mandarijnen" 8-)
[20:51] <MartijnVdS> hi jennie
[20:51] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: Same in the UK
[20:51] <shauno> so (without the tones) wo hoi shoi podonghua ma?  not, do you speak mandarin
[20:51] <jennie> hi MartijnVdS , are you from UK ?
[20:51] <MartijnVdS> jennie: I'm not :)
[20:52] <MartijnVdS> but some of the other people in here are
[20:52] <jennie> ok
[20:54] <daftykins> we let him off for it occasionally
[20:54] <daftykins> ;)
[20:55] <penguin42> jennie: And you?
[20:55] <jennie> penguin42 are you from UK ?
[20:56]  * penguin42 is
[20:56] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: your name ssounds Antarctic to me ;)
[20:56]  * penguin42 hands MartijnVdS a herring
[20:57] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: http://www.lauraspeaksdutch.info/wp-content/uploads/2006/09/img_0256.JPG
[20:57] <shauno> I have to say, the chinese are acutally amazing to deal with.  all you need is "I'm sorry, may I ask, do you speak english" in mandarin rather than just continuing in english, and you win them on the spot
[20:58] <shauno> the trick is not just to ask if they speak english; but to recognise the decorum they expect from a 'servant'.  instant win
[20:59] <daftykins> penguin42: was it red?
[20:59] <MartijnVdS> it's the same with the French really :)
[20:59] <daftykins> shauno: servant? 0o
[20:59] <shauno> I find french difficult.  I Can just about manage "8am".  phone back after 8am.  please.  please.
[21:00] <MartijnVdS> shauno: but most nouns are the same as in English
[21:00] <MartijnVdS> s/most/a lot/
[21:00] <shauno> daftykins: confucianism is very heirachial.  to an extreme.  you can find youtube videos of, eg, hairdressesers rehearing the "welcome how many I help" act
[21:01] <daftykins> rehearing? 0o
[21:02] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: don't you rehearse when you need to talk to customers?
[21:03] <daftykins> ...no?
[21:04] <MartijnVdS> do you ever talk to customers?
[21:06] <maps|work> well
[21:06] <maps|work> jennie didnt say much eh
[21:07] <MartijnVdS> just checking if everyone here is from the uk 8-)
[21:07]  * dwatkins waves
[21:07] <shauno> sorry, this isn't my most sober, and my keyboard is strugling to translate.  they have routines like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USeSAGfko-U
[21:08] <maps|work> most of us are:D
[21:08] <maps|work> we have a few odd ones out like MartijnVdS  :D
[21:08]  * MartijnVdS listens to Michael Jackson's Thriller.. that video is oddly synchronised.
[21:08] <daftykins> shauno: gone already at 9pm!?
[21:08] <maps|work> heh
[21:09] <daftykins> MartijnVdS: well, clients yeah, but mostly it's ad-hoc on the spot explanations of issues discovered then and there
[21:09] <shauno> I forgot to sleep last night.  I worked 12 hours.  shifts are weird.
[21:09] <daftykins> erk!
[21:10] <MartijnVdS> shauno: you *forgot*?
[21:11] <daftykins> Irish, 'nough said ;)
[21:11] <shauno> sleeping is fairly down my list of priorities.  I have a job that's conductive to napping.
[21:11] <shauno> eg, if it's not beeping, I can do pretty much anything that doesnt' look inexcusable
[21:12]  * MartijnVdS Ctrl+Gs at shauno
[21:12] <maps|work> http://krebsonsecurity.com/2014/01/bug-exposes-ip-cameras-baby-monitors/
[21:12] <maps|work> always see stff like this with IP cameras..but lol clicking OK when asked for user/pass and you get in:D
[21:12] <maps|work> ctrl +g?
[21:13] <shauno> oh it gets better.  I've found a firefox extension called 'muter', so the beeping is optional.  so on the weekends, when there's no grownups - we take turns
[21:13] <shauno> ^G should create the terminal bell, from memory
[21:13] <MartijnVdS> maps|work: Ctrl+G = \007 = ASCII "BEL"
[21:13] <MartijnVdS> = \a
[21:13] <mr_dick> join #dogecoin
[21:14] <MartijnVdS> mr_dick: such forget. much /. wow.
[21:14] <mr_dick> lol
[21:15] <maps|work> ;]
[21:18] <maps|work> hm#
[21:18] <maps|work> he cant make his mind up
[21:38] <maps|work> ;]
[21:43] <maps|work> what linux sites/podcasts/magazines do you all read
[21:46] <brobostigon> osnews
[21:55] <moreati> maps|work: lwn, hacker news, links from twitter, planet python, python weekly, postgresql weekly, 2 or 3 subreddits
[22:04] <bigcalm> Anybody here tried playing 140 on Steam on Linux?
[22:04] <bigcalm> The game doesn't seem to run for me
[22:23] <bigcalm> !ping
[22:23] <bigcalm> Oh
[22:37] <Myrtti> popey: http://www.corsair.com/us/mx-rgb
[22:37] <Myrtti> (obviously no idea how good it is but omg pretty!)
[22:42] <maps|work> never even heard of 140
[22:43] <maps|work> ooh thats pretty Myrtti  hadn't seen that before
[22:44] <popey> Myrtti: i really want a keyboard with touchpoint
[22:44] <Myrtti> oh, right
[23:10] <maps|work> stupid work machine crashed
[23:10] <maps|work> can someone paste the respnse i got to my question about what linux sites people read
[23:12] <maps|work> please;]
[23:19] <Myrtti> osnews lwn, hacker news, links from twitter, planet python, python  weekly, postgresql weekly, 2 or 3 subreddits
[23:20] <Myrtti> maps|work: ^
[23:20] <Myrtti> (didn't include nicknames because it's late and didn't want to unnecessarily highlight)
[23:34] <maps|work> thanks:D
[23:43] <maps|work> ARGHHH whats happening - sorry got distracted someone pestering me at work-can u paste again:(
[23:43] <maps|work> il cp it to notepad then:D


[00:14] <nuba> hey guy, someone should update the topic, 10.10 was released :) http://ubuntustudio.org/MaverickMeerkat
[00:14] <nuba> oops, hey guys*
[00:15] <holstein> nuba: im fine with it saying 10.04 ;)
[00:15] <holstein> jussi01: you want to do that when you get a minute?
[03:21] <Nintet> is there a compressor plugin for audio players?
[03:21] <Nintet> totem or vlc?
[03:21] <holstein> hmmm
[03:21] <holstein> there are plenty
[03:22] <holstein> you could use with JACK
[03:22] <Nintet> so i can set the threashold and gain?
[03:22] <Nintet> hmmm
[03:22] <holstein> if it comes down to that
[03:22] <Nintet> i dont have ubust
[03:22] <Nintet> i would have to install jack
[03:22] <holstein> let me look around for something in VLC
[03:22] <Nintet> and i found it hard to use
[03:22] <Nintet> http://forum.videolan.org/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=79240&p=262276&hilit=limiter#p262276
[03:22] <Nintet> version 1.2
[03:22] <Nintet> they are using v1.14
[03:23] <holstein> Nintet: what is the purpose?
[03:23] <holstein> is JACK too much to take on?
[03:23] <Nintet> the problem is that radio stations use the Pirate format
[03:23] <Nintet> a certain station
[03:23] <Nintet> which means... people playing vinyls
[03:23] <Nintet> and screaming into headphones
[03:23] <Nintet> through shidd mixers
[03:24] <Nintet> which is good for the clubs/cars
[03:24] <holstein> http://jamin.sourceforge.net/en/about.html
[03:24] <Nintet> but bad for my neighbors
[03:24] <holstein> this is really nice for mastering
[03:25] <Nintet> yeah, again
[03:25] <Nintet> i dont ave the realtime kernel installed
[03:25] <Nintet> what i do with linux is limited to non-realtime trackers
[03:25] <Nintet> little sample trackers so... i dont need realtime
[03:25] <holstein> you shouldnt need to push it so hard
[03:25] <holstein> that you would need it
[03:25] <holstein> BUT
[03:25] <holstein> we should be able to find a VLC solution...
[03:26] <Nintet> i mean, i would like to take anything over -6db and smash it
[03:26] <Nintet> and set the threshold to -40 or something
[03:27] <Nintet> not noticeable but gets out the big pops and explosions
[03:27] <holstein> normalize doesnt work for you?
[03:27] <holstein> in VLC
[03:27] <Nintet> i like postfish for mastering btw
[03:27] <Nintet> that has settings?
[03:27] <holstein> i cant imagine anthing 'pro' that you'll just be able to set and forget
[03:28] <Nintet> i dont even have vlc installed... i have only used totem
[03:28] <holstein> Nintet: give VLC a look
[03:28] <holstein> there are some handy things built in
[03:29] <ailo> Nintet: You might want to consider using vlc with qjackctl which can be used to remember connections. This way you can start everything up with a simple script.
[03:29] <Nintet> but dont i need a realtime kernel?
[03:29] <Nintet> i am not using ubustu
[03:29] <ailo> No need for rt
[03:30] <ailo> Just make sure the frames/period is 1024 or above.
[03:30] <Nintet> aaah
[03:30] <ailo> No need for low latency, right?
[03:30] <Nintet> riht
[03:30] <Nintet> or MIDI
[03:32] <ailo> For example vlc -> jamin -> audio out
[03:32] <Nintet> yeah
[03:33] <Nintet> dont think i need that much tho
[03:33] <Nintet> just a simple limiter/compressor
[03:33] <Nintet> jamin looks nice tho
[03:33] <Nintet> ever seen postfish?
[03:33] <Nintet> its a stand alone
[03:34] <Nintet> has an "antiverb"
[03:34] <Nintet> very useful for audio that has too much reverb and you cant get it back
[03:34] <Nintet> like old recordings of live stuff...
[03:34] <Nintet> de-verb
[03:34] <Nintet> my favorite effect
[03:35] <Nintet> i use Buzz mainly
[03:35] <Nintet> in wine
[03:37] <ailo> I am a pure data man myself.  Never tried postfish. Sounds interesting.
[03:38] <Nintet> you might like it
[03:38] <Nintet> audacity i use for mastering
[03:38] <Nintet> their "mastering" plugin is quite leet
[03:38] <Nintet> it is really really good
[03:38] <Nintet> but postfish is really interesting because of the de-verb and the compressors are friendly
[03:39] <Nintet> postfish is a real hard thing to set up tho
[03:39] <Nintet> and it uses the command line so you have to be careful
[03:39] <Nintet> i have the source somewhere and everytime i install ubuntu it is a real fight to get it back up
[03:40] <Nintet> but i need it because so many peope record their vocals like garbage
[03:40] <Nintet> in a staircase for example
[03:41] <ailo> Postfish seems unmaintained for a few years..
[03:42] <Nintet> yeah
[03:42] <Nintet> not many apps with a de-verb tho
[03:42] <Nintet> i gotta go back to macos 9
[03:43] <Nintet> to find one
[03:43] <Nintet> deverbs are the most important effect to people who mix through the mail
[03:43] <Nintet> cause people dont know how to record... they think they do lol!
[03:49] <ailo> Well, just checked it out and put it in the vault.
[03:49] <ailo> http://svn.xiph.org/trunk/postfish/
[03:52] <ailo> Anyone tried lash? Maybe that could be an option for Nintet as well?
[03:55] <Nintet> when i open vlc they have ... tools => plugins and extensions
[03:55] <Nintet> what do i have to do to get the limiter to come up?
[03:58] <holstein> i see some under tools
[03:58] <holstein> preferences
[03:58] <holstein> under audio
[04:19] <Nintet> yeah just said limit output to...
[04:19] <Nintet> thats not really a compressor
[04:19] <Nintet> -=/
[04:20] <Nintet> i bet it does have some look-ahead tho
[04:50] <Nintet> yeah the vlc options have the setting..
[04:50] <Nintet> in db i guess
[04:50] <Nintet> but you have to restart it
[04:50] <Nintet> and it is affecting the sound post
[04:50] <holstein> i havent really used it
[04:50] <Nintet> past the volume slider
[04:51] <Nintet> yeah... not really that great
[04:51] <holstein> not great for 'on the fly' i suppose
[04:51] <Nintet> you know what tho...
[04:51] <Nintet> sounds good under 100%
[04:52] <Nintet> better than what i had... which was a hardware unit in my patch bay ;(
[04:52] <holstein> Nintet: you use pulse?
[04:53] <Nintet> the audio stack?
[04:53] <Nintet> no
[04:53] <holstein> hmmm
[04:54] <holstein> http://sourceforge.net/projects/xmms-mbc/
[04:54] <Nintet> i need to get down on some new linux tec
[04:54] <holstein> not sure about that description though
[04:55] <Nintet> i dont see any files
[04:56] <holstein> HEY
[04:56] <holstein> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replay_Gain
[04:56] <holstein> that sounds promising
[04:58] <Nintet> yeah but that is for recorded files...
[04:58] <Nintet> not for live streams
[04:58] <Nintet> this normalize plugin for vlc is crackin up on me
[04:59] <Nintet> i thought it was in db but it is not
[04:59] <holstein> Nintet: replay gain?
[04:59] <holstein> looks like a plugin
[05:01] <Nintet> yeah i just enabled it for rythmbox
[05:01] <Nintet> and then it dies on trying to open the stream
[05:01] <Nintet> -=(
[05:02] <Nintet> looks like it is for VLC
[05:03] <holstein> hmmm
[05:03] <holstein> well, its supported on a ton of players
[05:03] <holstein> surely one of them will do it
[05:04] <holstein> sounds like thats the action you're looking for
[05:04] <Nintet> yeah i was thinking of just a normal compressor... what i am used to
[05:05] <holstein> it'll be challenging
[05:05] <holstein> you're looking for a pro-tool
[05:05] <holstein> for a consumer level task
[05:05] <holstein> even if you find one
[05:05] <holstein> it probably wont be called 'compressor'
[05:06] <Nintet> it will suck ;)
[05:06] <holstein> probably be 'handy-volume-tool'
[05:06] <holstein> or, replay_gain ;)
[05:06] <Nintet> lol
[05:06] <holstein> not that anyone knows what gain means either
[05:06] <holstein> if you get JACK running, your options open up quite a bit
[05:07] <holstein> you can have whatever compressor you want in theory
[05:07] <Nintet> is there a VST wrapper?
[05:07] <holstein> depends on the VST
[05:07] <holstein> you wont need it though
[05:07] <holstein> if your looking to use a windows VST
[05:07] <holstein> you'll probably find a replacement you're comfortable with
[05:08] <holstein> Nintet: HEY
[05:08] <holstein> let me send you somewhere
[05:08] <holstein>  #opensourcemsuicians
[05:08] <holstein> IF anyone is around
[05:08] <holstein> they might know more about comp plugs for alsa
[05:08] <Nintet> nope
[05:08] <holstein> no what?
[05:08] <Nintet> no people arround
[05:08] <holstein> OH
[05:08] <Nintet> but thanks for the chan info
[05:08] <holstein> #opensourcemusicians ...
[05:08] <Nintet> might be useful
[05:09] <holstein> i typed it wrong*
[05:10] <Nintet> hmm
[05:11] <Nintet> actually... the replay_gain isn't doin such a bad job... just had a big record scratch
[05:12] <holstein> Nintet: :)
[05:12] <holstein> im impressed with how many things its supports
[05:12] <holstein> how many players*
[05:13] <holstein> Nintet: you got it in VLC right now?
[05:13] <Nintet> nah, i have it in rythmbox
[05:13] <Nintet> which is a shit app i thnk
[05:14] <Nintet> so i cant really tell...
[05:14] <holstein> im not crazy about it
[05:14] <holstein> i usually just use VLC
[05:14] <Nintet> but yea... compared to just stock totem with no plugin... sounds like it is doing something
[05:14] <holstein> cool
[05:14] <holstein> good to know
[05:15] <Nintet> have to get on here later...
[05:16] <Nintet> mabee someone can tell me where i can get some demo code and make some plugins or something
[05:16] <Nintet> time for sleep on the EST
[05:16] <Nintet> thanks!
[05:16] <Nintet> nite
[05:16] <holstein> GN
[06:25] <tanders12> ailo/holstein: you guys around?
[06:25] <ailo> tanders12: how is it going?
[06:26] <tanders12> good man. i been kickin butt
[06:26] <tanders12> :)
[06:26] <ailo> Did you get jack and ffado built?
[06:26] <tanders12> got ffado, jack1, and jack2/jackdmp all to compile and run
[06:26] <tanders12> ffado-mixer is workin great
[06:27] <ailo> No problems at all?
[06:27] <tanders12> well...
[06:27] <tanders12> :D
[06:28] <ailo> So what did you do to get jack working?
[06:28] <tanders12> only problem is synaptic thinks they are all uninstalled, since I removed them first. So if i try to install ardour it want to install libffado, etc. So next step is to uninstall the ones I built, then reinstall from syaptic, then rebuild and overwrite and get it working that way
[06:28] <ailo> I see
[06:29] <tanders12> the problem was ffado
[06:29] <ailo> One solution is to make your own packages and create a repo on your system.
[06:29] <tanders12> it thought i was missing some deps but I wasn't, so it didn't compile with the proper options
[06:30] <tanders12> then Arnold on the ffado mailing list recommended this:
[06:30] <tanders12> Install the package "libdbus-c++-dev" and its dependencies, run "rm .scons*
[06:30] <tanders12> cache/objects -Rf" and then try again.
[06:30] <tanders12> The alsa lib is not so important afair.
[06:30] <tanders12> worked great
[06:30] <ailo> Ok. Scons.. :)
[06:30] <tanders12> you were right about ./waf
[06:30] <tanders12> that's what you use for jack2
[06:30] <ailo> ok
[06:31] <tanders12> jack1 uses autogen.sh
[06:31] <ailo> That's the only one I built myself
[06:31] <ailo> Sorry for the confusion, then.
[06:31] <tanders12> supposedly they both interface the same
[06:32] <tanders12> jack2 isn't really a replacement per se, but an alternative. however, I wanted the multicore support so i went with it
[06:32] <tanders12> i really like the waf system
[06:32] <tanders12> makes it very clear what you are building and how to change it
[06:33] <tanders12> honestly man this has been a lot of fun but way more of a pain than it should have been. Both the FFADO and JACK documentation is horrible.
[06:33] <tanders12> I'm seriously thinking about adding some stuff to the wikis, I'm just afraid of putting in false info
[06:34] <tanders12> I know what works for me but I don't have a lot of "in depth" knowledge
[06:35] <ailo> Maybe jack could use some additions on their site, about building?
[06:36] <ailo> But, what did you think about specifically? How to set up ffado with micer on Maverick?
[06:36] <ailo> mixer..
[06:37] <tanders12> yeah
[06:37] <tanders12> like "getting FFADO and JACK working 101"
[06:38] <tanders12> i mean they don't even explain the difference between jack1 and jack2 on their site
[06:38] <tanders12> most of the good info is in the README
[06:39] <ailo> I think the README is enough for building, but not for how to set it up for a particular system.
[06:39] <tanders12> you've never used firewire audio right?
[06:39] <ailo> Nope
[06:39] <ailo> Don't have a device
[06:40] <tanders12> ah so you've never seen ffado-mixer. It's very bland compared to the flashy manufacturer mixers for windows/max. I'm toying with the idea of making a new interface as well
[06:41] <tanders12> I was thinking about why Maverick and Lucid take different things to get the permissions right, and I think it has something to do with Juju
[06:42] <ailo> Must be
[06:43] <tanders12> that's a perfect example though. I could edit the wiki and recommend ppl to add that file to /lib/udev/rules.d like I did, but maybe there's another way that is more correct. IDK, it just works for me
[06:43] <ailo> I think your way is probably the safest way to go, since the rules are for specific devices. This way they don't affect other devices at all.
[06:44] <tanders12> yeah
[06:45] <tanders12> and honestly the wiki is so bad already i don't think anyone will care if it's a little off
[06:45] <tanders12> if it works, it works
[06:45] <tanders12> btw my command line kung fu is improving rapidly :D
[06:45] <tanders12> brb
[06:46] <tanders121> back
[06:47] <tanders121> switched clients
[06:47] <tanders121> ive never really used irc or mailing lists before the last few days
[06:47] <ailo> tanders121: I'm kind of new to it too.
[06:48] <ailo> I'm sure your setup can be used as reference in the wiki. But about building stuff from source, there is the propblem with dependencies, as you mentioned.
[06:49] <tanders121> yeah readme is best for that
[06:49] <tanders121> i could include general info though
[06:50] <tanders121> and explain a little more about WHAT is happening, not just what to type in
[06:50] <ailo> No, that too, sorry. But I mean, not being able to install stuff later, because of package dependencies.
[06:50] <tanders121> oh right
[06:50] <tanders121> well ill figure that out soon enough
[06:51] <ailo> It is possible to force install a package from the .deb file.
[06:52] <ailo> You can find ardour, for instance on http://packages.ubuntu.com/ and download it.
[06:53] <tanders121> hm good idea. I just don't want to concede defeat to synaptic :P
[06:53] <tanders121> but if i cant make it work ill prolly just build ardour from source as well. I think there are slight performance advantages to it
[06:53] <ailo> I've only touched on the repo problem, but it is definitely possible to adjust that.
[06:55] <ailo> And, you can create your own. I'm going to eventually for some custom packages.
[06:56] <tanders121> ah yes I thought of doing that too
[06:56] <tanders121> but i only have 32bit systems atm
[06:57] <tanders121> can you build for 64bit on 32?
[06:57] <ailo> Don't know.
[07:04] <ailo> tanders121: Ever tried Linux From Scratch?
[07:04] <tanders121> Well here goes. I'm about to break a perfectly good system on purpose...
[07:05] <tanders121> ailo: nope but I want too :D
[07:05] <tanders121> Arch first, then maybe LFS some day
[07:06] <ailo> LFS is not so hard, at least for the base system. It's educational, though.
[07:06] <ailo> There is BLFS, which deals with Desktops, and that gets a little trickier.
[07:10] <tanders121> i think arch is a nice middlepoint. still very basic but they have a bunch of packages. I wouldn't want to have to install EVERYTHING from source
[07:15] <tanders121> brb
[07:18] <tanders12> yep, i broke it...
[07:23] <tanders12> well in gonna try and reboot before i give up on it for tonight
[07:32] <tanders12> gotta love rebooting
[07:32] <tanders12> everything works :)
[16:16] <ScabbyMadman> is there a complete package list somewhere of  ubuntustudio?
[16:18] <ScottL> hold on ScabbyMadman
[16:18] <ScabbyMadman> thanks
[16:18] <ScottL> ScabbyMadman, this is the build log with ALL the packages:  http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/cd-build-logs/ubuntustudio/natty/daily-20110103.log
[16:18] <ScottL> or
[16:19] <ScottL> here is the multimedia list of packages:  https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio/Applications
[16:20] <ScabbyMadman> Thanks ScottL ..I have  UbuntuStudio 7.04( I think) on another HD....using an old AthlonXP 2600...a little old non?
[16:20] <ScabbyMadman> that ver worked  pretty ok
[16:21] <ScottL> ScabbyMadman, oh yes, 7.04 is quite old...10.04 (the latest LTS version) is quite a bit better than 7.04
[16:21] <ScabbyMadman> great
[16:22] <ScabbyMadman> I was mightily impressed with 7.04s dvd authoring  tools to say the least
[16:26] <ScottL> mind you, 10.10 is also released but it is not an LTS version
[16:26] <ScabbyMadman> aye
[16:26] <ScabbyMadman> the .10 vers tend to be  somewhat bleeding edge, non?


[12:38] <bluesabre> Freshly installed eoan on my laptop
[12:38] <bluesabre> Noticed the flicker in the whiskmenu folks have mentioned
[12:39] <bluesabre> Also noticed we're not currently building xfce4-settings with the colord support... I'm thinking we probably want that
[13:33] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfmpc 0.3.0 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfmpc-0-3-0-released-tp54268.html (by André Miranda)
[14:02] <knome> yes please :)
[14:48] <bluesabre> ochosi: what packages are required for colord to find my monitors? In eoan, I'm just getting "No devices found."
[14:48] <bluesabre> It detected my scanner, briefly, earlier
[14:49] <bluesabre> Or is this possibly some nvidia-linked issue?
[14:53] <bluesabre> https://imgur.com/NBNJfcS.png is what I'm seeing
[19:02] <ochosi> bluesabre: you need xiccd for that, it's an additional daemon
[19:02] <ochosi> yuck, the no devices found is misplaced, i thought that one expands
[19:02] <ochosi> i mean it could be worse, but it should be centered
[19:02] <ochosi> (vertically)
[19:05] <ochosi> actually it's all summed up and explained here: https://simon.shimmerproject.org/2019/02/19/color-profile-support-for-xfce/
[19:06] <ochosi> (also the xiccd dependency)
[20:01] <TJ-> bluesabre: when you have time, could you give an opinion on the findings in comments #16 onwards in Bug #1759950  - the Lid-Close-Suspend-Resume-DPM-off issue - I've traced it down through to libxrandr but not being familiar with this area of functionality not sure what to make of it
[20:22] <brainwash> TJ-: I have no input, but did you test with 19.10 dev yet?
[20:23] <TJ-> brainwash: no, not so far
[20:23] <brainwash> or 19.04 + xubuntu experimental PPA
[20:24] <TJ-> I'll fetch the 19.10 daily and try that
[20:25] <TJ-> really annoys me that all the -dev images have the same name no matter which flavour; almost overwrote the Lubuntu image!
[23:25] <bluesabre> ochosi: thanks, that does the trick
[23:29] <bluesabre> TJ-: that's interesting, but I really don't know where to go from there since I'm not particularly well versed in randr either :(
[23:32] <TJ-> bluesabre: 3 issues are strange; 1) first close-suspend-open-resume is fine, but subsequent cycles fail, 2) the fact I added a delay and it still doesn't recover suggests it isn't a race condition 3) as this doesn't affect other flavours my suspicion is its something xfsettingsd is {not,} doing
[23:36] <bluesabre> !team | uploaded colord-enabled xfce4-settings to eoan. Should build and be available a bit later.
[23:37] <bluesabre> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-settings/4.13.6-0ubuntu2
[23:37] <bluesabre> Eickmeyer: FYI ^
[23:38] <bluesabre> TJ-: is there any other non-Xfce desktop that we could test by dropping light-locker/xfce4-settings into?
[23:40] <TJ-> bluesabre: not sure to be honest! I have a tentative theory... you know that both the first and second cycles both report "xfsettingsd-CRITICAL **: <timestamp>: Failed to apply display settings" ... what if thatfailure after the 1st resume is the cause of the 2nd cycle then failing (not updating some internal state possibly ?)
[23:41] <bluesabre> TJ-: that sounds like as good a theory as any :)
[23:41] <TJ-> hehehe grasping at straws :)
[23:41] <TJ-> I've not focusing on that aspect as yet, but I guess I ought to since we'd rather not have any failures
[23:42] <TJ-> It's sure easier than trying to figure out libx11 and libxrandr
[23:44] <TJ-> seems to come from  if (gdk_x11_display_error_trap_pop (gdk_display_get_default ()) != 0)
[23:44] <TJ-> so I presume gdk_display_get_default() is where to focus
[23:47] <TJ-> ahhh, and that looks to be one of yours :)  c6c7ca212
[23:56] <TJ-> hmmm, so, if I understand correctly, one of the function calls between the push and the pop is failing
[23:58] <ochosi> maybe x11/gdk isnt ready when xfsettingsd is asking for the display


[14:12] <ogra_> sem, the firefox deb (at least in the PPA) is not actually supported by anyone since the PPA is only used for backports to older releases (so neither support or testing on current releases happens for these debs ... ) the only supported FF you can use on ubuntu is the snap (supported and tested by mozilla) ... if you want to go the non-snap route the only "supported" option is the tarball
[15:50] <Eickmeyer> ogra_: I love how omgubuntu is dead wrong: https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2024/01/firefox-122-released-with-official-deb
[15:52] <leftyfb> they're not wrong
[15:52] <leftyfb> https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/install-firefox-linux?utm_source=www.mozilla.org&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=firefox-download-thanks#w_install-firefox-deb-package-for-debian-based-distributions
[15:52] <Eickmeyer> leftyfb: Read what ogra_ just posted.
[15:53] <leftyfb> Eickmeyer: Read what I jut posted
[15:53] <leftyfb> just*
[15:53] <leftyfb> it's a repo from Mozilla hosting their officially supported .deb
[15:53] <Eickmeyer> That means we have two official sources in conflict with each other.
[15:53] <leftyfb> not the PPA and not the tarball
[15:54] <leftyfb> how are they in conflict?
[15:54] <leftyfb> use 1 or the other, your choice
[15:54] <arraybolt3> I don't think Firefox *has* an officially supported .deb (you can't download one from their website, and the PPA is unofficial even if Mozilla people are involved with itAFAIK)
[15:54] <leftyfb> both are supported and maintained by Mozilla
[15:54] <leftyfb> arraybolt3: please read the link I just posted
[15:54] <leftyfb> that has apparently changed recently
[15:55] <Eickmeyer> The snap is 100% Mozilla's idea, so why the about-face then?
[15:55] <leftyfb> user feedback
[15:55] <arraybolt3> So wait... they have their own apt repo now separate from the PPA?
[15:55] <leftyfb> also probably due to known issues with the snap
[15:55] <leftyfb> arraybolt3: yes
[15:56] <arraybolt3> huh, sure enough
[15:56] <leftyfb> for most users, the snap is probably fine. But if you need things like EID, the .deb from Mozilla is probably best
[15:56] <arraybolt3> Eickmeyer: The "official deb package" is literally a whole new repo, not the PPA. Just like how you install Element from a third-party repo that isn't a PPA.
[15:56] <Eickmeyer> arraybolt3: I understand that, I've been keeping up. Slightly discouraging.
[15:57] <leftyfb> why is it discouraging?
[15:57] <Eickmeyer> leftyfb: I'd rather not go there.
[15:57] <leftyfb> Until the snap issues are resolved, users now have the ability to install the .deb and not have issue
[15:57] <Eickmeyer> arraybolt3: FWIW, the Element snap is done by Ken Van Dine, not by Element themseves.
[15:57] <arraybolt3> It is interesting to see that the article can't decide if it's Firefox 122 or 112.
[15:57] <arraybolt3> :P
[15:58] <arraybolt3> Eickmeyer: I was referring to Element's deb repo, not the snap, but I get you.
[15:58] <leftyfb> either way, this is a win-win for everyone. Except maybe the Firefox snap, which is maintained by Mozilla. This just gives more time to sort out the snap issues
[15:58] <arraybolt3> anyway, the Firefox snap works just fine for me, but I generally use apps in a fairly "vanilla" mode so...
[15:59] <leftyfb> ditto
[15:59] <leftyfb> like I said, the snap is fine for most. The .deb is for those that need additional features which the snap does not currently support
[16:00] <leftyfb> hopefully the snap (snaps in general) can improve to the point where the Mozilla .deb repo won't be necessary
[16:01] <leftyfb> It would have been nice for OMGu to actually link to the Mozilla .deb instructions or mention the fact that they exist. The article doesn't give any details on HOW to attain the Firefox .deb at all
[16:02] <arraybolt3> gah, /me is having serious problems with x11vnc crashing multiple times each session
[16:03] <arraybolt3> let's see if turning off compositing makes it have mercy on me
[16:03] <arraybolt3> nope
[16:03] <arraybolt3> sigh, guess I have some bug reporting to do
[16:04] <leftyfb> !firefox
[16:04] <leftyfb> I think we should have a !firefoxdeb or something to point people who ask to the instructions
[16:05] <Eickmeyer> Or... don't rely on the bot and actually have a conversation?
[16:05] <Eickmeyer> Develop relationships?
[16:05] <arraybolt3> lotuspsychje might be able to help with that, they know the right buttons to get things added to the bot
[16:06] <arraybolt3> Eickmeyer: ...?
[16:06] <arraybolt3> It's just a speed assist. People can develop relationships and not have to copypasta things like crazy.
 heya, I'm tired of the Firefox snap. Any way to install it from a .deb again?
 !firefoxdeb
 ^ try those instructions, should get you going quickly.
[16:07] <Eickmeyer> arraybolt3: I get that, but should only be used if it gets asked frequently, not preemptively.
[16:07] <arraybolt3> IMO it gets asked frequently already.
[16:07] <arraybolt3> Not like hyper-frequently, but enough to matter.
[16:07] <arraybolt3> it sure beats !ask and !patience :P those ones just look like they'll make people upset.
[16:07] <leftyfb> it's been one of the most asked questions in the past couple years
[16:08] <Eickmeyer> I mean, it's one of the biggest part of !guidelines I actually agree with that we shouldn't use the bot that much. It's impersonal and doesn't get taken the right way, believe it or not.
[16:09] <arraybolt3> I definitely believe it. I just think that this is one of the areas where it's actually useful.
[16:09] <arraybolt3> If I had my way, we'd have useful bot commands for quick info retrieval, and would throw all of the redirecting ones like !ask and !patience into the dumpster.
[16:09] <arraybolt3> maybe now that the Matrix migration is happening I might actually be able to make that happen :P
[16:10] <Eickmeyer> You can always /msg ubottu !{command}.
[16:10] <leftyfb> they're bringing matrix back????
[16:10] <arraybolt3> right... and then you have to copy-paste obviously canned responses which is both cumbersome for the user and *looks* like a canned responce because it *is*.
[16:10] <Eickmeyer> leftyfb: More like Ubuntu is going to supercede IRC with Matrix. Matrix will become first-class with IRC slowly waning.
[16:10] <arraybolt3> for me a canned response from a human is far more impersonal and crummy than watching them use a bot command - the latter is like seeing someone pull out a file from a cabinet and hand it to you, rather than you transforming into a robot for a second.
[16:11] <leftyfb> ugh
[16:11] <arraybolt3> *cumbersome for the supporter, I mean
[16:11] <Eickmeyer> arraybolt3: Then personalize it!
[16:12] <arraybolt3> I do... in the message that I send immediately after the bot command :D
[16:12] <arraybolt3> I don't edit the Wiki before each time sending a link to documentation to personalize it for the person I'm sending it to.
[16:12] <Eickmeyer> When I was working in a call center, we had a script, but we were to make it our own, in our own words and not follow it word-for-word. If we followed it word for word, it was actually bad.
[16:12] <arraybolt3> Agreed. Which is why you use bot commands and your own typed messages.
[16:13] <arraybolt3> Ubottu even has a feature for personalizing bot commands in-line, like so:
[16:13] <leftyfb> I'm fine with the way I've been providing free support on IRC for about 16 years now
[16:13] <arraybolt3> !patience | Eickmeyer this works quite well IMO.
[16:13]  * arraybolt3 intentionally picked the worst possible bot command here just because I couldn't think of a better one
[16:14] <Eickmeyer> arraybolt3: Again, it's a bot saying it, but that's one of those commands that makes sense coming from a bot. I'm just saying... ugh, nvm.
[16:15] <arraybolt3> I think we're on opposite sides of the fence here. For me !patience from a bot is like the single worst turn-off for someone seeking support on IRC that even could be imagined.
[16:15] <leftyfb> that's not my take on it
[16:15] <arraybolt3> I never use it, and just say "Sometimes it takes a while for someone who knows the answer to your question to show up" or something like that.
[16:15] <arraybolt3> leftyfb: well it smacks me like that every. single. time. I see someone else use it.
[16:16] <leftyfb> for me, I use it when I don't know the answer or don't have time to answer and don't want the person feeling ignored, letting them know to stick around and wait a bit and someone might be able to help them
[16:16] <leftyfb> some people are new to IRC and might assume an immediate response is expected
[16:17] <arraybolt3> :shrug: I've seen it chase people off before, or at least it looked like it's what chased them off.
[16:17] <leftyfb> if it chased them off, my take would be they don't feel like waiting
[16:18] <arraybolt3> I know that if I was new to IRC, came into a room and the first thing I was told was something out of the mouth of a bot about how I had messed up right out of the starting gate, I'd go find support somewhere else pronto, unless I was desperate.
[16:19] <arraybolt3> Telling people how they "failed" near the beginning of a session because they "didn't read the topic" (like IRC clients make that easy) or because they "need to be patient" or because they "shouldn't ask to ask" is not a great experience for the person being told it.
[16:19] <arraybolt3> btw we need a petition for IRC clients to make room topics blindingly obvious if you're new to IRC
[16:19] <arraybolt3> most clients I use, I have trouble reading the topic *intentionally*, much less noticing it in passing.
[16:32] <Menzador> Honestly I do feel like there's too much negative language in !patience
[16:32] <Menzador> I mean, quick! Don't think about a green ball!
[16:33] <Menzador> This has no bearing on the factoid's truth claims; I just feel it might need re-wording in a more positive light
[16:40] <arraybolt3> Menzador: lol exactly
[16:42] <arraybolt3> weird, so it was IntelliJ that was totally throwing my VNC session into chaos it seems?
[16:42] <arraybolt3> anyway, off topic, but suddenly everything's much more well-behaved
[18:09] <ogra_> leftyfb, the mozilla debs do not get tested against recent ubuntu releases ... nobody on the ubuntu side supports them either (not sure if mozilla wants to support them in context of ubuntu though, but i doubt it since they focus on the snap support) ...
[18:10] <leftyfb> ogra_: if they're provided by Mozilla, then they should certainly be supported by Mozilla
[18:14] <ogra_> leftyfb, well, not sure what they*d do if i.e. the new ubuntu font packages make them redner webistes in a broken way, or mesa in the distro causes incompatibilities etc etc ... but feel free to try out once you hit something with the deb
[18:15] <leftyfb> I have no need to run the .deb :)
[18:15] <ogra_> 🙂
[18:15] <leftyfb> hell, I hardly use Firefox
[18:16] <ogra_> the other thing is that there is really no guarantee the PPA will persist once the security team does not need it for backports to old releases anyomre whihc is why i usually suggest the tarball to people not wanting the snap since that will keep getting updated regardless
[18:17] <leftyfb> ogra_: you know we're not talking about the PPA right?
[18:17] <ogra_> yes i do ... just saying ...
[18:17] <ogra_> (since the PPA is more commonly used than the mozilla archive i suspect)
[18:17] <ogra_> (in ubuntu that is)
[18:19] <ogra_> BTW, note how i talked about the PPA in my original message above, not about the mozilla deb archive 😉
[18:19] <leftyfb> The Firefox snap has some corner cases that just don't work today. Building from source is a poor solution. The PPA isn't supported by Mozilla nor Ubuntu. For the small number of cases that the snap just doesn't work, Mozilla's repository is the best solution until the snap developers fix the issues on their end.
[18:20] <leftyfb> And of course then there's the people who just love to hate what's new and at the moment, that's snap
[18:25] <arraybolt3> well, for the first time in my life, I have now intentionally uninstalled every single kernel from a running system and had a relative degree of confidence that I knew what I was doing :P
[18:25] <arraybolt3> (switching a test box from the HWE to GA kernel)
[18:26] <arraybolt3> and now I just issued the reboot command, let's see if I actually did know what I was doing
[18:26] <arraybolt3> woot, success
[18:26] <arraybolt3> system still boots fine
[18:26] <arraybolt3> (after installing linux-generic of course)
[18:58] <lotuspsychje> arraybolt3: did you mean to request factoids to ubottu?
[18:59] <lotuspsychje> leftyfb: https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/introducing-the-temporary-matrix-council/41348?u=merlijn-sebrechts
[19:02] <arraybolt3> lotuspsychje: yep
[19:02] <arraybolt3> to request the creation of a new factoid
[19:03] <lotuspsychje> arraybolt3: EDIT: !no factoid is <reply> foo | ADD NEW: !factoid is <reply> foo
[19:03] <arraybolt3> nifty
[19:04] <lotuspsychje> arraybolt3: this doesnt add or edit right away, your suggestion will goto the ops/editors first for aproval
[19:04] <arraybolt3> right, but that's fine
[19:05] <lotuspsychje> !brain
[19:05] <lotuspsychje> to see latest added/edited factoids