[00:00] <penguin42> HNY all
[00:00] <jacobw> happy new year!
[00:00] <jacobw> fireworks from big ben :o
[00:00] <Supermanintights> HNY all!!!!
[00:01] <jacobw> i will solve my rubiks cube in 2012
[00:02] <popey> hah
[00:02] <DJones> Happy new year all
[00:02] <Supermanintights> christel,  - you're two minutes late....
[00:03] <Supermanintights> jacobw, i spent a month at work constantly learning how to solve the rubiks cube
[00:03] <christel> i know! :(
[00:03] <Supermanintights> i'm still not great at it
[00:03] <Supermanintights> but i can do it (slowly)
[00:03] <jacobw> i got one for christmas
[00:03] <Supermanintights> how people can complete them in seconds is just stupid
[00:04] <jacobw> there's a record for doing it with chopsticks
[00:04] <penguin42> I think there is a relatively simple algorithm you can learn for it - never bothered
[00:04] <jacobw> its an area of serious mathematical study
[00:04] <Supermanintights> haha
[00:05] <penguin42> jacobw: Did you see the machine someone built to do it?
[00:05] <jacobw> penguin42: no
[00:05] <Supermanintights> it's a matter of learning how to do the corners, then the centre cubes
[00:05] <Supermanintights> then how to move around without losing the position
[00:05] <penguin42> jacobw: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=052JJGBxFH0
[00:06] <Supermanintights> i can do it on instinct better than i can thinking about it - that's when i normally screw up and it becomes a nightmare trying to recover it
[00:06] <greg-g> tonytiger: thanks man. happy New Year!
[00:06] <Supermanintights> fml penguin42 - thats amazing
[00:07] <penguin42> yeh, very neat
[00:07] <Supermanintights> reminds me of this:
[00:07] <Supermanintights> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUvind4t7Pk
[00:10] <jacobw> wow
[00:10] <jacobw> the machines are awesome
[00:10] <penguin42> Supermanintights: Haha nice trick
[00:11] <Supermanintights> i'd love to build one
[00:11] <Supermanintights> to do what - no idea
[00:11] <Supermanintights> but still, that sort of thing is brilliant
[00:11]  * jacobw considers the 'corners' idea
[00:12] <Supermanintights> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMghvnqDhT8&feature=related - a related video (apparently), but really amusing
[00:37] <awilkins> Happy New Year!
[00:37] <awilkins> The other 58 people are lurking....
[00:37] <christel> happy new year awilkins ;)
[00:37] <MartijnVdS> awilkins: you too :)
[00:38]  * jacobw jumps on awilkins
[00:40] <AlanBell> happy new year o/
[00:40] <christel> happy new year <3
[00:41] <MartijnVdS> happy new year AlanBell and everyone else :)
[00:41] <AlanBell> the fireworks outside czajkowski's window looked good on the telly
[00:43] <awilkins> We lit a couple of those chinese lanterns. Had a couple of "oh crap, we've incinerated the neighbours garden" moments too.
[00:44] <Supermanintights> ok, windows onlilne
[00:44] <Supermanintights> computer seems to be running pretty slow considering i've just reformatted - normally expect it to run faster, it was slightly laggy on ubuntu as well - but i just thought that might be ubuntu
[00:45] <awilkins> Your electron have overindulged and need to lose their "Christmas pudding"
[00:47] <Supermanintights> fml
[00:47] <Supermanintights> guys - the bootscreen for dualboots
[00:47] <Supermanintights> can i extend the time i have to choose an OS?
[00:48] <penguin42> sure
[00:48] <awilkins> Yes, it's controlled by the config file
[00:48] <Supermanintights> it's only 8 seconds and it feels like if i blink or something, i've logged straight into ubuntu - when if i need to go back into windows, it's a waste of time to restart again
[00:48] <Supermanintights> !config
[00:48] <awilkins> You can switch it off, change the default, etc
[00:48] <penguin42> Supermanintights: See /etc/default/grub
[00:48] <awilkins> You can even make it sticky
[00:48] <penguin42> Supermanintights: I think it's GRUB_TIMEOUT
[00:49] <Supermanintights> sticky?
[00:49] <penguin42> (is there a GUI for tweeking that stuff?)
[00:49] <awilkins> So the last OS you boot is the next OS you boot
[00:49] <awilkins> Good for Windows Updatahons
[00:49] <Supermanintights> hmm
[00:49] <Supermanintights> can i edit it so it's like 30 seconds, but runs sticky?
[00:49] <Supermanintights> so i got enough time to do something, but if i'm not around it still runs sticky
[00:50] <jacobw> in grub1 it was 'timeout 10' in /boot/grub/menu.lst
[00:50] <jacobw> i think its more complex in grub2
[00:50] <penguin42> jacobw: Yeh you edit the /etc/default/grub and then run update-grub
[00:50] <awilkins> I've done it for grub1
[00:51] <Supermanintights> i've found the timeout in /grub
[00:51] <awilkins> On my MythTV box, it boots in 3s and the next OS is a poweroff kernel (for the RTC wakeup setter)
[00:51] <Supermanintights> how do i amend the sticky thing?
[00:52] <awilkins> Add a savew default instruction to each entry you want to stick- don't remember the syntax
[00:52] <awilkins> pardon my rubbish phonetypos too
[00:52]  * Supermanintights watches as awilkins suggestions flies miles over his head
[00:53] <awilkins> There's a script for each grub entry - in grub1 at least, part of the language lets you set the default entry
[00:55] <Supermanintights> hmm
[00:55] <jacobw> working out the syntax of each configuration is part of the fun of linux :p
[00:55] <Supermanintights> yeah yeah
[00:56] <Supermanintights> found a guide that suggests using some gui program
[00:56] <Supermanintights> i'll try that :P
[00:56] <Supermanintights> fully aware i'm a wuss and a coward
[00:57] <awilkins> I started my Linux career on Gentoo
[00:57] <awilkins> Scary.
[00:59] <Supermanintights> i started my career with ubuntu and lots of help from #ubuntu-uk
[00:59] <Supermanintights> :P
[00:59] <Supermanintights> so the gui turned out to be pish
[00:59] <Supermanintights> stuff it, 45 seconds is long enough for now
[01:00] <Supermanintights> i'll worry about the sticky thing when it starts really irritating me
[01:00] <awilkins> Try ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1304761
[01:00] <Supermanintights> or i'll follow that ^ :D
[01:01] <Supermanintights> fml - i don't understand hardly any of that, well not enough that i'll figure out what to do myself
[01:01] <Supermanintights> ok.
[01:01] <Supermanintights> brb - going back to windows
[02:09] <mattt> unz unz unz
[02:09] <penguin42> ?
[02:14] <mattt> penguin42: raving, what else?
[02:27] <penguin42> swearing at bfd
[02:32] <penguin42> right, now I can go to bed - I've hacked it into working!
[02:36] <imexil> Here is a wish for 2012: Finally having an easy to follow hands-on tutorial for packaging debian/Ubuntu packages available ;-) Happy 2012 <:-)
[02:37] <hamitron> imexil, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete
[02:40] <imexil> My emphasis was on "easy to follow" but maybe that's mutual exclusive to the debian way of things :)
[02:40] <Supermanintights> goddamnit, windows won't boot properly
[02:41] <Supermanintights> with me having a dualboot with ubuntu - should i seek assistance here, or on ##windows?
[02:41] <hamitron> imexil, http://users.telenet.be/mydotcom/howto/linux/package.htm
[02:42] <hamitron> tbh, with more features, comes complication in making such things
[02:43] <imexil> hamitron: Thanks for the second link. That one I haven't seen yet. At least it's not nearly 100 pages long (which might put off some people). Going to look into that one too. Thanks
[02:43] <hamitron> I'd recommend you try packaging simple things first, get a feel for it
[02:43] <hamitron> then build yourself up
[02:52] <jutnux> HEY GUYS
[02:52] <jutnux> HAPPY NEW YEAR
[03:06] <rileyp> when I type this from a terminal it works but in a script it doesnt whats wrong?  echo -e "VOLM20  \r" > /dev/ttyUSB0
[03:07] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Gareth France] To infinity and beyond! - http://cliftonts.co.uk/cubuntu/?p=40
[09:22] <daubers> Morning
[09:26] <daubers> Having to use Windows this morning and keep finding myself moving the mouse to the left edge of the screen to get the window changer up
[10:07] <AlanBell> morning all
[10:09] <daubers> Morning AlanBell
[10:11] <daubers> AlanBell: How's the OpenGL book?
[10:12] <AlanBell> looks good on my bookshelf
[10:12] <daubers> Heh :)
[10:12] <AlanBell> I haven't finished the Terry Pratchett I got yet
[10:12] <daubers> Snuff?
[10:12] <AlanBell> yes
[10:12] <daubers> Not read that yet :(
[10:13] <daubers> Got 2 OU books and the first Game of Thrones book to finish first
[10:13] <daubers> Then the OpenGL one
[10:13] <daubers> then I should have some more OU ones by that point
[10:16] <daubers> Looking forward to the OpenGL book, the aim is to create a 3d representation of my flat (or house if I've moved by then) with sensor readings in the correct rooms at the points where the sensors are hidden
[10:18] <mattt> learning me some django w/ officespaced.co.uk, suggestions welcome :P
[11:01] <daubers> Ah ha! Better
[11:04] <christel> morning lovelies
[11:04] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[11:07] <AlanBell> christel o/
[11:08]  * daubers prepares to head over to see the old people
[11:09] <christel> oh wow AlanBell, it got really big before you got rid of it!
[11:10] <AlanBell> it did, yes :)
[11:11] <christel> is Mrs. Bell happy now that it's gone? ;)
[11:11] <AlanBell> she is out, hasn't seen it yet
[11:11] <christel> aah
[11:15] <AlanBell> for those lacking context https://plus.google.com/u/0/109175303602657131317/posts/cKUTmfMREh4
[11:16] <jacobw> wow
[11:17] <sagaci> ha
[12:07] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Alan Pope] Python 2d Physics Libraries - http://popey.com/blog/2012/01/01/python-2d-physics-libraries/
[13:11] <czajkowski> aloha
[13:22] <AlanBell> hi czajkowski
[13:22] <czajkowski> hows you
[13:22] <AlanBell> fine, I had a beardectomy earlier
[13:22] <AlanBell> how were the fireworks?
[13:22] <czajkowski> amazing
[13:22] <czajkowski> sky was so bright
[13:26] <nigelb> AlanBell: nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
[13:27] <nigelb> AlanBell: beardectomy :(
[13:28] <AlanBell> or to put it another way the beard had an alanectomy
[13:31] <penguin42> AlanBell: But! Why?
[13:32] <AlanBell> it wanted to move on and live a free life of it's own, unhindered by the Alan that was attached to it
[13:34] <brobostigon> that almost makes it sound as if it had conciousness and selfawareness and life of its own,
[13:35] <penguin42> brobostigon: Think of the fibres of the beard as the axons
[13:35] <brobostigon> hmmm.
[13:45] <penguin42> the computation is done in the bread crumbs
[14:22] <jacobw> oh, its sherlock tonight :)
[14:22] <penguin42> nod
[15:23] <Supermanintights> hey guys, HNY
[15:47] <jacobw> ok
[15:47] <jacobw> 'flash my desire hd' sounds wrong :|
[15:48] <swat_> hi all
[15:48] <jacobw> hi
[15:48] <jacobw> → out
[15:49] <swat_> how's it going?
[15:54]  * darael swears profusely at an Indian computer manufacturer, but congratulates himself.
[15:56] <darael> It /should/ /not/ be necessary to do unetbootin/mini.iso->memory stick->copy to hard drive partition, followed by ntldr->grub4dos->installer.
[16:07] <DJones> Good afternoon, happy new year etc to all
[16:25] <zleap> happy new year
[18:49] <daubers> Has anyone got any experience with electronic door locks?
[18:51] <moreati> Nope, hackaday sometimes has projects involving them
[18:51] <dwatkins> daubers: only in so far as I disabled the lock which was used to break into my car recently
[18:53] <daubers> dwatkins: Wah?
[18:54] <dwatkins> daubers: my car got broken into by some annoying person with a screwdriver, it has both manaual and IR-based locking mechanisms
[18:54] <daubers> I see
[18:55] <dwatkins> Coincidentally I'm currently in the same friend's house outside which it was broken into.
[18:55] <daubers> Heh :)
[18:55]  * daubers hides the screwdrivers
[18:55] <dwatkins> We're watching idiots walking around on the street via a webcam from a window upstairs.
[18:56] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: from your fallout shelter bunker?
[18:56] <dwatkins> MartijnVdS: sadly no, just a 2-up/2-down
[18:59]  * daubers waits for an iso to download from his backup store
[18:59] <mattt> dwatkins: where's this?
[18:59] <dwatkins> mattt: Doncaster
[19:00] <dwatkins> I reported it to the police, but they exhausted all lines of inquiry (i.e. asked at the cash & carry with no results, I guess)
[19:04] <daubers> Also, does anyone have any recommendations for a digital voice recorder? I keep meaning to pick one up
[19:04] <MartijnVdS> daubers: do you want "podcast quality" or "transcription quality"?
[19:04] <daubers> Uhhh..... probably the first one
[19:04] <MartijnVdS> because for the second part any old MP3 player with mic will do :)
[19:05] <daubers> I want to be able to record 2 people in a room with some acceptable quality level :)
[19:05] <MartijnVdS> daubers: askpopey.com :)
[19:07] <daubers> MartijnVdS: Yeah :) I've been eyeing up one of these for a little while http://www.gak.co.uk/en/zoom-h1/40763
[19:16] <directhex> daubers: pull out your cryptographic sequencer, and hack the control box. or use a remote battarang if it's button-operated
[19:16] <Myrtti> AAAAARRR, almost forgot Sherlock is on tonight
[19:17]  * MartijnVdS would watch it, but I have to sleep
[19:17] <daubers> directhex: I was with you until the end of the word your
[19:17] <MartijnVdS> Helped a friend moving today
[19:17] <MartijnVdS> move*
[19:17]  * directhex flings a freeze grenade at daubers & flees
[19:18]  * daubers diagnoses directhex with "old batman TV series" disease
[19:18] <MartijnVdS> KAPOW
[19:19] <daubers> directhex: Never forget your anti-shark spray
[19:20] <directhex> daubers: that'd be pretty useful! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsQ4_v3ij0E&feature=related
[19:23] <daubers> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsQ4_v3ij0E&feature=related
[19:23] <daubers> stupid putty
[19:24] <daubers> oh dear
[19:33] <popey> Evening all
[19:34] <MartijnVdS> \o popester
[19:37] <moreati> Myrtti: thank you, thank you, thank you. I _had_ forgotten
[19:39] <Supermanintights> hey guys, if i want to associate a file type with a particular program, but it's not showing in the list, what's the terminal command?
[19:39] <andylockran> howdy all - happy new year
[19:40] <MartijnVdS> \o andylockran. and you too :)
[19:43] <Supermanintights> !filetypes
[19:43] <Supermanintights> !help
[19:43] <Supermanintights> !commands
[19:44] <AlanBell> !default | Supermanintights
[19:45] <Supermanintights> cheers AlanBell  - for some reason it's not showing in the list, the program i want to set the default for
[19:46] <ali1234> that's fairly common
[19:46] <ali1234> it's because the program isn't integrated properly with gnome
[19:47] <daubers> popey: Any recommendations for a portable audio recorder thingy?
[19:47] <Supermanintights> ali1234,  any suggestions on how i can change that?
[19:47] <AlanBell> Supermanintights: file a bug against the application and reference http://library.gnome.org/admin/system-admin-guide/stable/mimetypes-registering.html.en
[19:47] <ali1234> you have to create a .desktop file for the program
[19:48] <Supermanintights> AlanBell, I'd like to file a bug - but something tells me it'd be against the rules, which is why i'm trying to keep this as a general question for filetypes, rather than specifics
[19:48] <ali1234> why would it be against the rules to file a bug?
[19:48] <AlanBell> what rules??
[19:49] <Supermanintights> ok, i'm looking to bind nzb with sabnzbdplus
[19:49] <AlanBell> oh, not an application that is in ubuntu then
[19:49] <Supermanintights> because of the nature of that filetype - i assume it'd be against the rules
[19:49] <Supermanintights> that's why i was trying to be general, rather than specific
[19:49] <ali1234> no, it's packaged in ubuntu
[19:50] <AlanBell> so it is, yeah, file a bug
[19:50] <Supermanintights> that's ok? even though it's for nzbs?
[19:50] <ali1234> did you install the distro package?
[19:50] <Supermanintights> i followed the instructions on sabzbdplus website ali1234
[19:50] <ali1234> you installed it from the ppa?
[19:50] <Supermanintights> all the terminal commands - it normall associates, but i've not been given any option, and can't find any options in the settings
[19:51] <Supermanintights> http://wiki.sabnzbd.org/install-ubuntu-repo - that's what i did
[19:51] <moreati> Supermanintights: much as Ubuntu takes inspiration from OS X, it adheres to the principal of use it for any purpose - that if you want to make a baby muncher machine - noone will put a no baby muncher clause in the license
[19:51] <AlanBell> "This is an unofficial package from an unofficial repository. Don't file bugs about packages installed from this repository in Ubuntu's bug tracker, instead complain right here in this topic."
[19:52] <ali1234> test the distro package
[19:52] <ali1234> if that doesn't work, file a bug on launchpad too
[19:53] <Supermanintights> ok cooll
[19:58] <popey> daubers: to record what?
[20:01] <daubers> popey: A couple of people talking in the room, it's a memory aid thing for myself (and possibly for a future project, but thats a long way off)
[20:05] <popey> daubers: zoom h1
[20:05] <popey> probably cheaper voice dictation devices around, but thats the one I'd buy
[20:05] <daubers> ta, that's more or less confirmed what the interwebs in general was telling me :)
[20:05] <popey> hah, excellent
[20:05] <jacobw> sherlock on bbc2 at 2010
[20:05]  * popey has the PVR set
[20:06] <ali1234> just set mythtv to record it in HD
[20:06] <DJones> jacobw: But its 2012 :)
[20:07] <jacobw> hmm, gnome terminal on precise is giving my alt+<left>/<right> combinations to irssi as D/C
[20:07] <popey> speaking of 12.04
[20:07] <popey> http://popey.com/~alan/bootcharts/mbp/mbp-precise-20120101-1.png
[20:07] <popey> thats depressingly long
[20:09] <zleap> popey, what is that a diagram of ?
[20:09] <jacobw> ~60 seconds to greeter?
[20:12] <aquarius> yo

[20:13] <jacobw> hi
[20:13] <Myrtti> SHERLOOOOCCCKKKK
[20:13] <Myrtti> \o/
[20:13] <aquarius> sherlock isn't on for another hour yet, is it?
[20:13] <Myrtti> no, it just started
[20:13] <aquarius> cra!
[20:13]  * jacobw is rushing to install flash for this event
[20:13] <popey> its on now
[20:14] <aquarius> off to bbc watch live webpage for me  ;)
[20:14]  * DJones watches Treasure Island while recording Sherlock
[20:15]  * aquarius laughs at all the in-jokes for people who know the original stories :)
[20:15] <jacobw> excellent, sound doesn't work
[20:17]  * mattt is taping and watching later
[20:28]  * jacobw feels more productive with unity that gnome2
[20:29] <jacobw> than*
[20:49] <popey> https://twitter.com/#!/thewhiphand was 40 followers 3 mins ago
[20:50] <popey> now over 800
[20:51] <Myrtti> heheheehehe
[20:51] <Myrtti> noticed myself
[20:52] <Myrtti> 22 when I looked
[20:53] <popey> it went 40->48->20 oddly
[20:55] <Myrtti> ♥
[20:56] <jacobw> ?
[20:59]  * jacobw notes that unity launcher is not actually transparent
[21:01]  * Myrtti abandons plans of cooking and orders Indian
[21:01] <popey> excellent plan
[21:09] <Myrtti> excellent show this
[21:09] <Myrtti> I approve
[21:09] <popey> +1
[21:14] <Myrtti> wohoo food
[21:18] <czajkowski> we have left over indian grub from jon cooking last night
[21:18] <czajkowski> so nyommy to reheat
[21:26] <Azelphur> uhh, my computers going haywire \o/
[21:26] <Azelphur> it froze up a bit, and now even basic things are non functional, dmesg says "Input/output error" and touch says "Bus error"
[21:27] <DJones> Hard drive failure?
[21:27] <Azelphur> all happened when I loaded a web page, flash went up the wall, and now everything is going up the wall
[21:27] <popey> I have had that
[21:27] <popey> recently
[21:27] <Azelphur> fun
[21:28] <Azelphur> popey: any fix?
[21:29] <Azelphur> don't think it's a hdd failure, I can still browse the files fine, only can't do any R/W
[21:29] <Azelphur> oh hey I can do some R/W
[21:30] <Azelphur> time to turn it off and on again, I guess
[21:31] <Azelphur> LOL, sudo reboot now sudo: Can't open /var/lib/sudo/azelphur/2: Read-only file system
[21:31] <Azelphur> reboot, /sbin/reboot: Input/output error
[21:32] <Azelphur> guess I'll do magic sysreq, \o/
[21:32] <jacobw> dead

[21:38] <jacobw> hmm, i need food
[21:39] <penguin42> you never xray a phone if you want the data.....
[21:40] <Myrtti> brilliant, tipped mint sauce on me in the heat of the show
[21:49] <Azelphur> rebooted and it all seems to be alive now
[22:01] <penguin42> use smartctl to check if the drive thinks there was an error
[22:04] <Azelphur> looks fine :D
[22:46] <jacobw> Azelphur: its odd
[22:47] <jacobw> Azelphur: precise?
[22:47] <Azelphur> jacobw: ?
[22:47] <jacobw> are you using the 12.04 alpha?
[22:47] <Azelphur> nope
[23:08] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] 2012 - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/01/01/2012/


[22:34] <skellat> .nws 44004
[22:34] <jenni> There are no active watches, warnings or advisories, for Ashtabula, OH.
[22:34] <skellat> Hmm...Cortana lied then
[22:45] <Unit193> Temp: 27 F (-3 C) ~ Overcast ~ Windchill: 17 F (-8 C) ~ Humidity: 81% ~ Observed: Wed 10, 16:52


[02:47] <atpa8a> hello
[02:49] <atpa8a> just tried installing 13.04 with kvm, openvswitch and pci passthrough of a SAS controller using kvm managed mode
[02:49] <atpa8a> no luck on the last part tho
[04:00] <martisj> morning
[04:01] <martisj> Is there a good way to clone ubuntu server instances?
[04:01] <martisj> moving from us servers to aus servers and provider doesn't have a way to clone instances across datacenters
[04:34] <guzzlefry> can the installer for Ubuntu Server 12.04 walk me through setting up a mirrored RAID?
[06:27] <termant> I've got Ubuntu 12.04.2 and while startign drbd service I get "DRBD module version: 8.3.13
[06:27] <termant>    userland version: 8.3.11
[06:27] <termant> you should upgrade your drbd tools!" multiple times.
[06:34] <termant> I found out that variable DRBD_DONT_WARN_ON_VERSION_MISMATCH= might help on this, but how should I use it?
[07:30] <termant> I solved it.
[08:25] <xnox> guzzlefry: yes, see serverguide advanced installation.
[10:33] <lperry65> I'm added myself to the www:data group which owns /var/www but i'm unable to change file permissions on a style sheet in a subdirectory of /var/www. i've checked and all directories in www are owned by www:data with g+w please help!
[10:34] <maxb> Um you can't have a colon in a group name - what do you actually mean?
[10:35] <rbasak> lperry65: check the ownership on the files as well.
[10:36] <lperry65> sorry should have said  www-data
[10:36] <lperry65> file permissions are -rwxrwxr--
[10:37] <lperry65> file is owned by  www-data: www-data
[10:37] <maxb> Also, being in the group associated with a file does not grant you permissions to change permissions
[10:37] <maxb> Only the owning user can do that
[10:37] <lperry65> ah i see, so I could edit the file but not change the permissions? ok
[10:38] <lperry65> thank you :)
[11:01] <jamespage> zul, http://pad.ubuntu.com/havana-2-problems
[11:01] <jamespage> when you start :-)
[11:19] <zul> jamespage:  what if i never want to start? :)
[11:19]  * jamespage digs zul out of his hole
[11:20] <jamespage> zul, hey!
[11:20] <zul> ill take a look at cinder first...the nova one is easier
[11:20] <jamespage> zul, we have a mismatched novnc/websockify causing the nova issue
[11:20] <jamespage> zul, I think that is just a sync
[11:20] <zul> jamespage:  yeah cjwatson pointed that out last night
[11:20] <jamespage> zul, the cinder issue is i386 only - but I've no idea bout greenlet
[11:20] <zul> jamespage:  ack
[11:21] <zul> jamespage:  i think its a sqlalchemy issue
[11:21] <jamespage> zul, probably
[11:21]  * zul shakes his fist
[11:25] <jamespage> zul, python-ceilometerclient is holding up the keystone client migration - looking at that now
[11:25] <zul> er?
[11:27] <jamespage> zul, pkg_resources.DistributionNotFound: python-keystoneclient>=0.2,<0.3
[11:27] <zul> jamespage:  fudge
[11:27] <jamespage> zul, python-keystoneclient - 1:0.3.1-0ubuntu1
[11:27] <jamespage> #bang
[11:28] <jamespage> zul, trunk is OK - we might need to push a snapshot
[11:28] <zul> nah just bump the requirements.txt file
[11:29] <jamespage> zul, can you push your uploaded package changelog to the branch please
[11:29] <zul> jamespage:  sure
[11:29] <zul> jamespage:  lemme finish breakfast first
[11:29] <jamespage> zul, sure
[11:30] <jamespage> :-)
[11:36] <jamespage> zul, nm - I see your branch - I'll merge in and update
[11:36] <zul> cool
[11:54] <jamespage> zul: https://code.launchpad.net/~james-page/python-ceilometerclient/fixup-keystone/+merge/176173
[11:54] <zul> jamespage:  +1
[11:55] <zul> jamespage:  just starting to fix cinder
[11:55] <jamespage> zul, coolio
[11:56] <jamespage> zul, taking a break for lunch
[11:56] <zul> jamespage:  ok hopefully i will have something cinder related for you after lunch
[12:34] <Beatstreet> Hi
[12:34] <Beatstreet> when installing Ubuntu Server on a drive other then sda do I need to tell the master boot record to install to the drive (sde1) I have setup to mount at / or should installer do it automatically?
[12:41] <xnox> Beatstreet: it will ask you later, the default will be auto-detected and should be pre-set correctly to /dev/sde, but you can change it to something else, if you want to.
[12:47] <Beatstreet> do I point it to /dev/sde1 (the partition) or /dev/sde (the drive)?
[12:54] <koolhead11> hi all
[13:16] <zul> jamespage:  we should be able to sync novnc
[13:33] <StathisA> i'm updating a server with "apt-get update" and 2 packages are kept "back"...i know i can manually update that but why they arent done along with the rest?
[13:33] <Pici> StathisA: You'd need to use apt-get dist-upgrade
[13:33] <Pici> !dist-upgrade
[13:33] <StathisA> ah thanks a lot!
[13:39] <zul> jamespage:  interesting...
[13:39]  * zul shakes his fist at sqlalchemy
[13:41]  * koolhead11 watches zul dancing :P
[13:42] <zul> jamespage:  fixed locally...need new greenlet
[13:42] <jamespage> zul, most excellent!
[13:42] <jamespage> zul, thought it might be something todo with that version bump
[13:44] <zul> jamespage:  i need to add a patch that bumps the sqlalchemy in the requirements.txt though
[13:46] <zul> jamespage:  http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/5900633/
[13:50] <joe____> Would it be ok to ask configuration questions on this channel?
[14:01] <patdk-wk> !ask
[14:05] <zul> jamespage:  ping greenlet has been uploaded can you +1 https://code.launchpad.net/~zulcss/cinder/cinder-alchemy/+merge/176202 please
[14:21] <joe1234> Anyone know how to configure forward commerce to work on apache?
[14:22] <zul> jamespage:  fyi horizon needed a new compressor version i think have it working now
[14:27] <joe1234> Or if no one knows forward commerce, then how would one go about making a site accessible to the world rather than accessing it locally (this is for testing purposes BTW)?
[14:42] <zul> Daviey: ping
[14:44] <Daviey> zul: hey
[14:44] <zul> Daviey: mind promoting heatclient https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python-heatclient/+bug/1203122
[15:46] <zul> jamespage:  before you go https://code.launchpad.net/~zulcss/horizon/2013.2.b2/+merge/176230
[15:47] <jamespage> zul, not got just yet - looking now
[15:47] <zul> jamespage:  thanks
[15:58] <jamespage> zul: + - Add python-neatclient
[15:58] <jamespage> are you sure :-)
[15:59] <zul> jamespage:  but it was neat ;)
[15:59] <jamespage> zul, I think some of the generated assets are also missing
[15:59] <zul> jamespage:  really?
[16:00] <hedin_> Hi, how do I add the 12.04 repos in this link to sources.list?http://repo.zabbix.com/zabbix/2.0/ubuntu/
[16:00] <zul> how can you tell?
[16:33] <Ahti333> would you guys recommend additional backups before updating linux-image-generic? (no fancy stuff on the server, just postfix/dovecot, mysql, apache, php , ruby on rails)
[16:33] <lamont> I recommend regular backups for anything you care about
[16:39] <jamespage> zul,  how are well looking now?
[16:39] <zul> jamespage:  pretty good...just need to work on ceilometer and heat
[16:40] <zul> jamespage:  for heat im just going to get it to build im not going to rip out the dbconfig-common parts  (yet)
[16:40] <jamespage> zul, ah - cinder is ftbfs
[16:40] <jamespage> lemme look at that
[16:41] <zul> jamespage:  arrgh
[16:49] <jamespage> zul, builds fine locally on i386 and amd64
[16:49]  * jamespage hits the button of despair in LP
[16:49] <zul> interesting
[16:53] <jamespage> zul, meh - built this time
[16:55] <zul> jamespage:  lovely
[16:55] <roaksoax> Madkiss: howdy!
[16:55] <roaksoax> Madkiss: do the tests for libqb pass in debian?
[16:56] <zul> jamespage:  ill just upload horizon
[16:59] <vedic> Hey guys, I am running on 12.04 64bit. I want to install Apache 2.4.x which is the latest but 12.04 LTS repository provides 2.2.x version. Is there ready package for Ubuntu for apache 2.4.x? I don't want to recompile Apache if there is any security fix release.
[17:00] <ScottK> No.  If you install 2.4 on 12.04 you're on your own.
[17:00] <ScottK> The Ubuntu packages will get security updates.
[17:00] <pmatulis> vedic: not in the official archive, 2.2.22 only
[17:00] <sarnold> vedic: 2.4 apache transition involves a lot of different moving pieces. afaik there's nothing ready to download and try; 13.10 will be the first with apache 2.4, and backports feel unlikely.
[17:01] <ScottK> pmatulis: 2.2.22 + patches.
[17:01] <jamespage> zul, ack
[17:01] <pmatulis> ScottK: for sure, yeah
[17:02] <vedic> sarnold: I see. Then in that case, how do people who use production server manage security or bug fix release of apache? Do they remove source install and then recompile it?
[17:02] <sarnold> vedic: most will be content to run apache 2.2 until 14.04 LTS is released.
[17:02] <ScottK> Absolutely.
[17:03] <vedic> sarnold: Ah, thats long wait?
[17:03] <sarnold> vedic: you would not believe how close it feels. :)
[17:03] <vedic> sarnold: any expected dates yet?
[17:04] <zul> sarnold:  LTS is coming....LTS is coming...
[17:04] <sarnold> vedic: april 2014? :)
[17:04]  * zul shakes
[17:04] <sarnold> zul: that's right out of some horror film, right? :)
[17:04] <zul> sarnold:  simpsons..
[17:04] <zul> sarnold:  cant sleep...clown will eat me
[17:04] <sarnold> lol
[17:06] <vedic> Waiting for 14.04. Supporting phones, tv etc
[17:16] <smoser> jamespage, i'm sure you know this..
[17:16] <smoser> a .config script.
[17:16] <smoser> am i allowed to assume dependencies are installed ?
[17:28] <ScottK> No.  Unpacked, not fully installed.
[17:29] <smoser> ScottK, so ... if i want to read a yaml config file.
[17:29] <smoser> i have to do that with sed and awk ?
[17:29] <smoser> that sucks.
[17:30] <smoser> (or some other 'essential' i guess)
[17:30] <ScottK> Does the config run during package install (I was assuming that was the case)?
[17:40] <smoser> ScottK, please excuse my grave ignorance.
[17:40] <smoser> thi sis something i've never really fully grokced
[17:40] <ScottK> No problem.  What are you trying to do?
[17:40] <smoser> the postinst does handle $1 == configure
[17:40] <smoser> and uses db-get
[17:41] <smoser> so is that a yes to "does the config run during a package install"
[17:41] <ScottK> Yes, so you can only assume depends are unpacked, not fully installed.
[17:45] <smoser> so cannot use python then at that point ?
[17:46] <smoser> ScottK, i was wanting to read a yaml config file "correctly" 9not depending on formatting
[17:46] <smoser> like this
[17:46] <smoser> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5901317/
[17:47] <saban> hi. i want to make vpn server to connect to other sites via vpn (cisco, microsoft vpn..) can someone point me to the right direction for google? im a bit lost. basicly what i need is that i could connect to 5 vpns at same time?
[17:49] <NomadJim> anyone know when the next LTS release after 12.04 will be?
[17:49] <NomadJim> guessing 2014
[17:50] <sarnold> NomadJim: afaik the plan is still for 14.04
[17:50] <NomadJim> cool
[17:53] <sarnold> saban: some of the VPN implementations I've seen are very poor.. I wouldn't be at all surprised if at least one of them throws a complete fit with the others installed and running.
[17:53] <sarnold> saban: ideally, you could just configure them all and have everything Just Work, but some people try to be too clever for their own good..
[17:56] <ScottK> smoser: I think you'd need to pre-depend on python-yaml.
[17:56] <saban> sarnold: the only way that our nagios server can control sites is true vpn. everything else is blocked. but there are so many vpn (no site has the same vpn...) so i was tinking about dedicated "vpn server" to connect to all vpns and put in on esxi. im googleing about this and just cant find any good article about this :P
[17:57] <sarnold> saban: hah, that's a clever idea. :)
[17:59] <Ahti333> can anyone recommend a good tool for scheduled backups to a ftp backup space?
[17:59] <blkperl> people seem to like bacula
[18:02] <sarnold> Ahti333: also investigate duplicity
[18:02] <sarnold> Ahti333: here we are: http://duplicity.nongnu.org/
[18:03] <Ahti333> bacula looks pretty complicated, i really only need something like "back everything except /tmp up to this ftp host, full backup every weekend, incremental on weekdays or sth like that
[18:08] <Ahti333> sarnold how does duplicity handle cross device directories? (/ is one volume, /home is another one)
[18:09] <sarnold> Ahti333: I've not set it up myself, it's still on my todo list :) hehe
[18:09] <Ahti333> oh okay :) it loos just like what i need though :D
[18:10] <jdstrand> hallyn: hi! does kvm work well for you on a saucy host?
[18:11] <jdstrand> hallyn: with the 3.10 kernel on my x201s, it hard locks my system as soon as I fire up a vm
[18:11] <jdstrand> 3.8.0-26 and earlier are fine
[18:21] <hallyn> jdstrand: I'm using it nested - saucy vm is running kvm with no problems
[18:22] <hallyn> (my saucy laptop can't very well run kvm - or anything - without overheating and shutting down so i haven't tested that yet)
[18:22] <jdstrand> hallyn: well, it totally hard locks here
[18:22] <jdstrand> I have to use 3.8
[18:22] <hallyn> jdstrand: so you boot a 3.8 kernel, and run newest qemu-kvm, and it works?
[18:22] <jdstrand> yes
[18:23] <hallyn> please do file a bug (kernel also affecting qemu...)  no idea what htat would be
[18:23] <jdstrand> hallyn: I also downgraded qemu-kvm and tried with the 3.10 kernel, and same issue
[18:24] <hallyn> Subject: commit f8f559422b (KVM: MMU: fast invalidate all mmio sptes) causes hang
[18:24] <hallyn> (on lkml this weekend)
[18:24] <jdstrand> the problem is that it crashes so hard I don't get a trace. I do get NUL in the kern.log though
[18:24] <jdstrand> so at least there's that :\
[18:26] <hallyn> hm, that thread says it's amd-only - you don't roll low-rent like that
[18:26] <jdstrand> hallyn: this is a host lockup btw, not guest
[18:26] <jdstrand> heh, this is an i7
[18:26] <hallyn> wowzers
[18:27] <jdstrand> hallyn: also, fyi, appears 3.10 doesn't support nested=1
[18:27] <hallyn> ???
[18:27] <jdstrand> I had to remove that from /etc/modprobe.d/qemu* to load the kvm_intel module
[18:28] <jdstrand> weird, modinfo /lib/modules/3.10.0-4-generic/kernel/arch/x86/kvm/kvm-intel.ko says it is supported
[18:29] <hallyn> jdstrand: any chance you have some weird case of module not matching kernel?
[18:29] <jdstrand> not sure how that would happen
[18:29] <jdstrand> I updated today
[18:29] <jdstrand> (note the host lockup issue happened with 3.10.0-2 too)
[18:30] <jdstrand> let me reboot into 3.10.0-4 so I can report the lockup and see what it says again
[18:32] <jdstrand> hallyn:
[18:32] <jdstrand> $ cat /proc/version_signature
[18:32] <jdstrand> Ubuntu 3.10.0-4.13-generic 3.10.1
[18:32] <jdstrand> $ sudo modprobe kvm_intel
[18:32] <jdstrand> ERROR: could not insert 'kvm_intel': Unknown symbol in module, or unknown parameter (see dmesg)
[18:33] <DYSW> 3.10.2 is out btw
[18:33] <jdstrand> [  106.814382] kvm_intel: Unknown parameter `nested'
[18:34] <jdstrand> DYSW: ah, in 3.10.0-5.14 I see "rebase to v3.10.2"
[18:34]  * jdstrand tries
[18:36] <hallyn> jdstrand: nested= definately still exists in arch/x86/kvm/vmx.c...
[18:37] <jdstrand> yeah, modinfo says it is supported too
[18:37] <jdstrand> filename:       /lib/modules/3.10.0-4-generic/kernel/arch/x86/kvm/kvm-intel.ko
[18:37] <jdstrand> parm:           nested:bool
[18:37] <jdstrand> I have an older kernel though, let me update
[18:37] <DWSR> Hey all, can someone help me troubleshoot a fresh install of Precise amd64 that won't boot after a kernel upgrade?
[18:38] <DWSR> Additionally, can someone help me with why my grub is completely fscked up when displaying?
[18:38] <DYSW> DWSR: on hardware or vps ? did you use a non standard kernel and updated grub when done ?
[18:39] <DWSR> DYSW: I did a dist-upgrade off of a fresh install, so it would have been using the standard ubuntu kernel.
[18:39] <DWSR> And I assume that a dist-upgrade deals with all of the neccessary changes to GRUB.
[18:39] <DYSW> sure it would do that itself
[18:39] <DWSR> So basically.
[18:40] <DYSW> If its on hardware, a log could help
[18:40] <DWSR> lol.
[18:40] <DWSR> I guess that whole "I can't boot" thing doesn't really mean much to you?
[18:40] <DYSW> Xen, vps can be killed with apt-get dist-upgrade so, its important we know if its virtual or not
[18:41] <DYSW> lol. it does, but ubuntu boot menu has the option of using an earlier kernel or recue etc. from there you can get in and see the logs
[18:41] <DWSR> I can't actually SEE the options.
[18:41] <DWSR> Sec, I'll post a pic.
[18:42] <DYSW> But first thing i would do, is check iso hashes, reburn and try, or reinstall to usb and boot.
[18:42] <sarnold> DWSR: I think some releases require you to hold down left shift or something while booting to get grub menu :/
[18:42] <DWSR> I have the grub menu.
[18:42] <DWSR> Again, I'll show you in a second with a picture.
[18:42] <DWSR> Since, a thousand words and all that.
[18:43] <DWSR> https://www.dropbox.com/sc/labf5h6z4evioxj/OZ6G0MKNRp
[18:43] <DWSR> I will note that the BIOS menu displays correctly.
[18:44] <DWSR> And that Ubuntu didn't have display issues when I was in the install originally, and the LiveUSB didn't have an issue either.
[18:44] <DWSR> So, NOT HARDWARE RELATEd.
[18:44] <DYSW> Your screen is off. I would try all the options. the one with (mode) in it first
[18:44] <DWSR> No, it's not.
[18:45] <sarnold> DWSR: hah, that's a good one, never seen that..
[18:45] <sarnold> well, I haven't seen that since CRT days..
[18:45] <DYSW> i cant see any words on the screen just (mode) at the ned of a line, all to the left is black.
[18:45] <DWSR> Assuming that the hardware is at fault is quite frankly, ignorant.
[18:45] <DWSR> The panel is completely fine and displays correctly EVERYTHING ELSE from this computer AND from another.
[18:45] <DYSW> just looks like the screen is not centered. Doesnt matter. just try all the 4 options. It wont take much time
[18:45] <DWSR> The panel is fine.
[18:46] <DWSR> Ok, getting a bunch of spew regarding my drives.
[18:46] <DYSW> not hardware related, your setup is fine, but the screen can still be offcentered
[18:46] <DWSR> Which is a change from before.
[18:46] <DWSR> There we go, it's mounting /.
[18:46] <DWSR> Ok, that (mode) line was the recovery option.
[18:47] <DYSW> i know
[18:47] <DWSR> So I'm in the recovery menu.
[18:47] <DWSR> It wouldn't actually make it here before.
[18:47] <DWSR> So, yay progress.
[18:47] <DYSW> see hope
[18:47] <DWSR> I guess first order of business is unbreak system.
[18:47] <DWSR> Should I just try the dpkg option?
[18:48] <DYSW> Not sure, i have never needed to use the recovery option.
[18:48] <DWSR> welp, I'm trying a fsck first.
[18:49] <DWSR> And after that I'll try the dpkg option.
[18:49] <DWSR> The reboot was graceful, but I've done a couple of hard poweroffs (presumably) in the middle of the boot process, so the FS might be asploded.
[18:49] <DWSR> And the fsck just....froze?
[18:50] <DWSR> how long should a 300GB fsck take?
[18:50] <DWSR> also, can I just say that fsck is such a hilarious shortening.
[18:53] <bekks> DWSR: Depends on the filesystem, and even more on the content, it can take several hours.
[18:54] <DWSR> bekks: Mostly empty space.
[18:54] <DWSR> It's kind of fine though
[18:55] <bekks> DWSR: Then just let the fsck run until it finishes.
[18:55] <DWSR> I sent a ^C and now the system boots just fine.
[18:55] <bekks> You cancelled the fsck run.
[18:55] <DWSR> yeah.
[18:56] <bekks> So you have to run it again.
[18:56] <DWSR> You're assuming, of course, that it's required.
[18:56] <bekks> It is, in fact.
[18:57] <DWSR> Why?
[18:57] <DWSR> The system's booted currently.
[18:57] <bekks> Because your filesystem still may be corrupted.
[18:58] <DWSR> Yeah, acceptable risk until I figure out my display issues.
[18:58] <bekks> Booting does not tell you anything about the health status of a filesystem. The only thing thats obvious now is, that it isnt corrupted that severe that it wont boot anymore.
[18:58] <DWSR> Yep.
[19:00] <DWSR> Let's just take it as read that I understand and accept the risks, ok?
[19:05] <DWSR> I'm now having display issues in GRUB and Ubuntu. The panel I'm connected to is a 1080p panel, but doesn't appear to be detected as such
[19:09] <sarnold> DWSR: search for 'gfxmode' in the grub info documentation; you might be able to force a graphics mode that does work with your display
[19:11] <DWSR> sarnold: What about inside of Ubuntu?
[19:14] <sarnold> DWSR: that'll require fiddling with X configuration, either xrandr or Xorg.conf...
[19:14] <DWSR> nox.
[19:15] <DWSR> sarnold: No X installed.
[19:16] <sarnold> DWSR: ah, then the kernel's Documentation/kernel-parameters.txt file may have some guidance, the vga= or video= options may help
[19:17] <DWSR> sarnold: The panel is detecting the video signal as 1400x1050.
[19:20] <sarnold> DWSR: oh, yes, the kernel does fancier things these days.. you can also try adding 'nomodeset' to the kernel command line. Or, force the kernel mode setting as described https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Kernel_Mode_Setting
[19:24] <jsonperl> Patrickdk you around? http://pastebin.com/YPA7X0Ym
[19:25] <patdk-wk> dunno what I'm looking at
[19:27] <jsonperl> Some data during another "blip".
[19:27] <jsonperl> Run queue spikes, load is low, cpus accross the board drop in usage....
[19:28] <jsonperl> Even systat had problems collecting the data, as you can see by the timestamps. One is 39 SECONDS late
[19:28] <jsonperl> It's like the machine decides to take a lil breather
[19:28] <patdk-wk> jsonperl, note the cpu usage during those spikes?
[19:29] <patdk-wk> whree cpu usage is normally spread out, with >10% usage over many cores
[19:29] <patdk-wk> in the spikes, it's limited to one core
[19:29] <jsonperl> Then it's all in the single dig
[19:29] <jsonperl> yea
[19:29] <patdk-wk> defently a locking/mutex issue
[19:29] <jsonperl> Could you explain w a small example?
[19:30] <patdk-wk> something is holding a lock around stuff, while it works, and is keeping it for an extended period of time
[19:30] <patdk-wk> where normally it wouldn't
[19:30] <jsonperl> At the os level
[19:30] <patdk-wk> don't know
[19:30] <jsonperl> What types of things lock like that?
[19:30] <patdk-wk> but since you said you have like 10-20 of the program running
[19:30] <patdk-wk> I would have to say so
[19:30] <jsonperl> Yep 14
[19:30] <jsonperl> me2
[19:31] <jsonperl> It's definitely not overheating? That wouldn't act like that?
[19:31] <DWSR> jsonperl: No.
[19:31] <patdk-wk> oiwait doesn't go up, so not a disk
[19:31] <DWSR> Thermal throttling acts much differently.
[19:32] <DWSR> From a hardware perspective, it just clocks down the processor until the processor stops overheating.
[19:33] <DWSR> Which means that you wouldn't see a sudden shift from 4 cores to 1.
[19:33] <DWSR> Advantages to using an LVM for a single disk?
[19:34] <patdk-wk> many :)
[19:34] <patdk-wk> dynamic repartition, snapshotting
[19:34] <patdk-wk> reasons to not use it, the same :)
[19:34] <jsonperl> I've had very very good experience with LVM
[19:34] <jsonperl> even with hardware raid
[19:34] <patdk-wk> lvm can be ok, but it can get in the way also
[19:34] <DWSR> Ick hardware raid.
[19:35] <patdk-wk> well, they haven't started making bbwc for soft-raid yet
[19:36] <DWSR> Unless you're dropping a few bills for good cards, you might as well be using soft-raid.
[19:36] <jsonperl> HW raid gets a bad rap from crap onboard controllers
[19:37] <patdk-wk> onboard controllers is not hw-raid
[19:37] <DWSR> Anyone in here want to buy 8x4GB DDR2 ECC RAM?
[19:37] <DWSR> I really haven't a clue where I would list something like this.
[19:37] <patdk-wk> ebay
[19:37] <jsonperl> Yea I can vouch for ebay
[19:38] <DWSR> patdk-wk: No, but HW raid requires controllers.  Cheap is <$400.
[19:40] <patdk-wk> <$100 has to be software raid
[19:40] <Beatstreet> I thought hardware raid mostly exsisted because more computers couldnt handle the load of a software raid but over the eyears as power increase software became more reliable
[19:40] <patdk-wk> hardware raid exists for two reasons
[19:40] <jsonperl> I think I got LSI's in the 300 range and they've been completely fine
[19:40] <DWSR> Beatstreet: That's certainly been part of it. Hardware, done right, is better.
[19:40] <patdk-wk> you need it to boot
[19:40] <patdk-wk> or you need it for bbwc
[19:41] <DWSR> patdk-wk: You can boot from softraid. =\
[19:41] <patdk-wk> DWSR, you can? on every os? on every motherboard?
[19:41] <jsonperl> patdk-wk: Can you think of an example that you could demonstrate server level locking
[19:41] <patdk-wk> what happens when grub gets screwed up on your drive?
[19:41] <Beatstreet> I agree that hardware done right is better but the money involved to get it right is a lot
[19:41] <patdk-wk> the bios booted the first disk and won't try the second
[19:42] <patdk-wk> system won't boot
[19:42] <DWSR> patdk-wk: can is binary. It doesn't have to work in every case, only 1 to disprove your statement.
[19:42] <DWSR> patdk-wk: I never claimed it was a good idea. Merely that it was possible.
[19:42] <patdk-wk> yes, but hardware raid is known to work :)
[19:42] <patdk-wk> software is more of a, make sure you test it good
[19:43] <DWSR> patdk-wk: Back to my, it does work, but isn't recommended.
[19:43] <DWSR> Also, ~$200 LSIs are great for home use.
[19:43] <DWSR> Cheap != crap.
[19:43] <patdk-wk> $200 lsi's don't support bbwc
[19:44] <DWSR> You don't need BBWC if you configure your RAID correctly.
[19:44] <patdk-wk> yes you do
[19:44] <DWSR> Won't argue it's better to have, but you don't need it.
[19:44] <DWSR> No, you don't.
[19:44] <pmatulis> anyone set up or maintain ipsec tunnels between ubuntu and pfsense?
[19:45] <DWSR> Better? Yes. Neccessary, no.
[19:45] <patdk-wk> if I wasn't going use a bbwc, I would just use softraid
[19:45] <patdk-wk> then I have complete flexability over moving my raid to any other system
[19:45] <DWSR> patdk-wk: That's a personal choice. You can configure LSI cards to always flush cache.
[19:46] <DWSR> It's not neccessary to have a WC at all.
[19:46] <patdk-wk> the lsi card your talking about has no cache
[19:46] <patdk-wk> you need a real raid card for cache, and those support bbwc
[19:46] <DWSR> patdk-wk: Correct. I'm talking about disk cache.
[19:46] <DWSR> patdk-wk: You seem to be confusing neccessary with optimal.
[19:47] <DWSR> These things work, and work just fine, in the manner in which I've specified.
[19:47] <DWSR> Whether or not performance levels are to your personal definition of satisfactory are a COMPLETELY different subject.
[19:47] <patdk-wk> not with the latency requirements I need, therefor required :)
[19:48] <DWSR> patdk-wk: Since you mentioned $700 cards, that's probably true.
[19:48] <DWSR> But just remember "This doesn't work" is a very binary statement.
[19:48] <DWSR> And that this is a channel for server support and that covers all manner of use cases.
[19:49] <DWSR> For example, like home servers such as the one I'm currently reinstalling because, for the love of all things digital, I don't understand why dist-upgrade should BREAK an installation.
[19:49] <patdk-wk> it doesn't
[19:49] <DWSR> It does.
[19:49] <DWSR> Because I just had it happy.
[19:49] <DWSR> happen*
[19:49] <patdk-wk> no, something else broke it
[19:49] <patdk-wk> dist-upgrade just caused you to notice it
[19:50] <Beatstreet> running a RAID 5 on 3 drives. Is it better to create a small partition on each drive and RAID that for an OS partition then just putting the OS on a partition on the first drive? I've lost sda before and box wont boot with OS RAID'd across all 3
[19:50] <DWSR> Oh god no.
[19:50] <DWSR> You should get a small drive and have /boot on it.
[19:50] <DWSR> Even use a flash drive if that's all you have laying around.
[19:50] <DWSR> RAID, in whatever form you're using it, should always have access to the entire disk.
[19:51] <Beatstreet> flash drive would be a really slow running OS would it not?
[19:51] <DWSR> Hence why I said /boot.
[19:51] <Beatstreet> I guess I need to read up on the /boot thing
[19:52] <DWSR> Beatstreet: Basically, you can have your boot partition (/boot) installed on a seperate device from your root partition.
[19:52] <DWSR> Meaning you can pull fun shenanigans like make your system unbootable unless you have your flash drive in.
[19:52] <Beatstreet> so the /boot on the flash drive just boots it and it not accessed after that?
[19:53] <DWSR> Beatstreet: Not unless you're changing the contents of it for some reason.
[19:53] <DWSR> Which would be only during a kernel upgrade, or a GRUB upgrade, or something similar.
[19:53] <Beatstreet> which you dont do that ofter
[19:53] <DWSR> Yeah.
[19:53] <DWSR> Beatstreet: I'm not recommending you use a flash drive, mind you.
[19:54] <DWSR> Just saying it's a last resort kind of thing.
[19:55] <Beatstreet> the servers I have
[19:55] <Beatstreet> all are full of drives
[19:55] <Beatstreet> so the usb drive would have to be
[19:55] <DWSR> I can guarentee you that you can put more in.
[19:55] <DWSR> assuming you're talking of desktop cases.
[19:55] <Beatstreet> I know I can add controller cards
[19:56] <DWSR> https://www.dropbox.com/sc/mb1stsgiaj1b2h6/j0ATKr0yrE <-- this is my home server that has 14 drives in it.
[19:57] <DWSR> I ran out of bays so I literally mounted a 5.25"->3.5" converter to the bottom using a 120mm fan as an "adapter"
[19:57] <DWSR> That's only a mid tower. I guarentee you you can add more drivers.
[19:57] <patdk-wk> hmm, I don't have any pics of mine, 45 in it
[19:57] <DWSR> s/vers/es/
[19:57] <DWSR> patdk-wk: You use the Storage Pod design from Backblaze?
[19:58] <Beatstreet> you have sata controoler cards?
[19:58] <patdk-wk> no
[19:58] <DWSR> Beatstreet: I have 1.
[19:58] <patdk-wk> 17 internal sata, and 28 fc drives
[19:59] <jsonperl> so… system mutex
[19:59] <jsonperl> :)
[19:59] <jsonperl> how would one create one of those
[19:59] <tdao> hi all.  ive installed a raid array in my home server.  dmraid shows 3 disks but no array.  in my bios the array shows functional.  any direction would be helpful and appreciated.  the forums are down still from being hacked :P
[20:00] <DWSR> tdao: I'm assuming that you have created an array in the BIOS?
[20:00] <tdao> yes DWSR
[20:00] <DWSR> tdao: dmraid won't detect anything then.
[20:01] <tdao> ok, so how do i find what i need to mount?
[20:01] <DWSR> tdao: What RAID controller are you using?
[20:01] <tdao> built in on the mobo
[20:01] <DWSR> yeah, that's why dmraid doesn't detect anything.
[20:02] <tdao> ah, i misunderstood the package
[20:02] <DWSR> Yes.
[20:02] <DWSR> And no.
[20:02] <DWSR> It does what you're thinking it does, it doesn't support what you're using, almost certainly.
[20:02] <tdao> dmraid or ubuntu server?
[20:03] <DWSR> tdao: dmraid/.
[20:03] <DWSR> tdao: What does dmraid -r output?
[20:04] <tdao> http://pastebin.com/qByp2EPu
[20:06] <DWSR> Have you tried deactivating your onboard raid?
[20:06] <DWSR> And just using md?
[20:07] <tdao> no, i was hoping to use my hardware for the raid
[20:07] <DWSR> Why?
[20:07] <tdao> part of my mobo, wanting to use it
[20:08] <DWSR> tdao: Why?
[20:08] <tdao> ive done the software raid before
[20:08] <DWSR> ok.
[20:08] <DWSR> And?
[20:09] <tdao> on this server, ive not used the soft raid
[20:09] <tdao> forums are down, so i was looking for something i might have missed.  the install is older than the array
[20:09] <Beatstreet> DWSR, so this server I am running has 3 serial ports and they are all full. You dont recommend a flash drive /boot. What would you do?
[20:10] <Beatstreet> add a controller card and 1 drive just for OS?
[20:10] <DWSR> Beatstreet: Yeah. Even if the controller card is crap, it's better than USB.
[20:10] <Beatstreet> they dont make a controller card that has a small drive built in do they?
[20:11] <patdk-wk> no internal usb ports/headers?
[20:13] <Gugoies> hello peeps
[20:14] <Pici> hi
[20:16] <Gugoies> are pyton better for script then bash (newb here)
[20:27] <Madkiss> roaksoax: sure they do
[20:31] <DWSR> Can someone please explain to me why a fresh install of precise amd64 won't actually boot?
[20:35] <patdk-wk> did you use 12.04? 12.04.1? 12.04.2?
[20:37] <roaksoax> Madkiss: interesting, libqb is failing in our builders
[20:37] <roaksoax> Madkiss: tests are failing
[20:37] <roaksoax> Madkiss: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/145612225/buildlog_ubuntu-saucy-amd64.libqb_0.14.4-1ubuntu1~ppa2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[20:39] <Madkiss> don't jniwm sirry
[20:39] <Madkiss> gna
[20:39] <Madkiss> don't know, sorry.
[20:39] <Madkiss> let me have a look tomorrow, it is late oer here already
[20:52] <DWSR> patdk-wk: 12.04.2
[20:54] <patdk-wk> try 12.04.1
[20:54] <patdk-wk> .2 has the enablement stack on it
[20:56] <DWSR> huh?
[21:00] <rtoyzer> hi
[21:00] <rtoyzer> anyone there ?
[21:07] <DWSR> patdk-wk: Doesn't the 12.04.2 media come with a pre-enablement kernel on it?
[21:08] <patdk-wk> I didn't think so, not sure
[21:08] <patdk-wk> thought it didn't cause there wasn't enough space
[21:16] <rtoyzer> anyone ?
[21:16] <rtoyzer> i can't access to ubuntu channel ? do you know whY  ?
[21:18] <sarnold> rtoyzer: I didn't see any obvious bans that would prevent you from joining.. (but wow there are a -lot- of them...)
[21:19] <rtoyzer> == #ubuntu Cannot join channel (+b) - you are banned
[21:19] <rtoyzer> why baned ?
[21:21] <sarnold> rtoyzer: I suggesst asking in #ubuntu-ops if someone can look into it for you
[21:29] <rtoyzer> welll
[21:30] <rtoyzer> i m looking something equivalent of windows illuminate room
[21:30] <rtoyzer> who knows ?
[21:30] <rtoyzer> in opensource
[21:31] <oops_im_a_sysadm> Hi all. I'm having trouble getting the nginx repository working for an Ubuntu Precise server. I download the key, added it to apt, apt-add-repository, apt-get update, and when I apt-get install nginx, it says it's already newest, but nginx -v reports 1.2.9. How can I debug this issue?
[21:31] <rtoyzer> oh my god ubuntu forum get hacked lollllllll
[21:32] <rtoyzer> this is showing how ubuntu is vunerable
[21:32] <rtoyzer> for security issue
[21:33] <DWSR> oops_im_a_sysadm: Is 1.2.9 the latest in the nginx PPA?
[21:33] <sarnold> oops_im_a_sysadm: can you pastebin your "apt-cache policy nginx" somewhere?
[21:34] <ScottK> rtoyzer: Every web content management service has security vulnerabilities of some kind.  Until you know how they got hacked, you don't know if it says anything about Ubuntu the distro or not.
[21:36] <oops_im_a_sysadm> DWSR no, that's the problem. sarnold: ah, yes, it knows of the later version, but decides this older version is the newest. Maybe it's because of the crazy '1:version' naming scheme which I don't understand. Here's the output: http://pastebin.com/LBKGhpE2
[21:36] <DWSR> oops_im_a_sysadm: Just checking. Had that happen to me a few times before.
[21:37] <sarnold> oops_im_a_sysadm: hrm, I don't see any 1: epochs in the nginx installed on my laptop, nor in the ppa...
[21:37] <oops_im_a_sysadm> DWSR: thanks, always worth a double check
[21:37] <DWSR> oops_im_a_sysadm: Can you install the package by specifying the version number?
[21:37] <oops_im_a_sysadm> sarnold: I have another repository enabled (for ruby) that has these 1:1.2.9 nginx versions
[21:37] <sarnold> oops_im_a_sysadm: ah!
[21:38] <sarnold> oops_im_a_sysadm: ah, so you do, sitting right there in the output.
[21:38] <oops_im_a_sysadm> DWSR: that may work, but I need to be able to launch new instances of the server without first manually checking the latest version in the repo
[21:38] <oops_im_a_sysadm> can I specify >=version with apt-get?
[21:39] <DWSR> Don't think so. I think apt only allows specific versions
[21:39] <oops_im_a_sysadm> and will this even count as >=, given the crazy 1: prefix?
[21:39] <sarnold> oops_im_a_sysadm: probably better would be to specify which repository you want to supply your nginx
[21:39] <DWSR> Also, ^^
[21:39] <oops_im_a_sysadm> sarnold: yes, that would be nice. I didn't know if I could do that
[21:39] <DWSR> Was just wondering if you needed 1.2.9 specifically or just "latest"
[21:40] <oops_im_a_sysadm> sarnold: can I do that?
[21:40] <sarnold> oops_im_a_sysadm: look for the text "Default Priority Assignments" in apt_preferences(5) manpage
[21:41] <sarnold> (I have to look it up every time I want to use it.. heh.)
[21:41] <DWSR> http://serverfault.com/questions/247708/specify-ubuntu-repository-from-which-a-package-is-installed <-- I believe this might also help.
[21:41] <oops_im_a_sysadm> Thanks very much sarnold and DWSR
[21:42] <sarnold> nice, short and sweet. :)
[21:43] <DWSR> Can you pin repositories at higher priorities?
[21:43] <DWSR> OR can you only pin packages?
[21:44] <oops_im_a_sysadm> It looks like you can specify the package as "*"
[21:44] <DWSR> So it would seem
[21:56] <DWSR> Anyone know of a way to provide a multi-platform AD-equivalent?
[21:58] <sarnold> DWSR: I believe that is a claimed feature of Samba4
[22:01] <DWSR> I'll believe it when I see it
[22:04] <DWSR> Is there a Samba PPA?\
[22:04] <hallyn> stgraber: bleh.  i've got the changes all implemented, but am seeing inexplicable subtle regression :(  no patchset going out tonight probably
[22:05] <sarnold> DWSR: samba4 is packaged in the archive for all releases -- though it is in universe in all releases
[22:05] <DWSR> sarnold: IT's in universe?
[22:05] <DWSR> Ah, that makes sense, I'm only searching precise main
[22:06] <sarnold> DWSR: yeah, it might make sense to promote samba4 for saucy, but as far as I know, no one has asked..
[22:08] <DWSR> What a *puts on shades* saucy suggestion.
[22:09] <sarnold> lol
[22:11] <DWSR> patdk-wk: ty for the suggestion on precise .1. Seems to work MUCH better.
[22:12] <DWSR> patdk-wk: Will a dist-upgrade at this point give me the enablement stack, or no?
[22:14] <hallyn> hm, maybe it's not so bad.
[22:16] <hallyn> eh i'm gonna look at it after dinner.  mind numb.  going afk.
[22:49] <TheLordOfTime> anyone here an expert with PPTPd and PPTP VPN setups?
[23:08] <TheLordOfTime> anyone on the server team want to lend me their time for, oh, about 30 minutes so they can comment on a discussion on the -quality mailing list? (I'm going to CC the -server ML shortly)
[23:08] <ScottK> Please don't.
[23:09] <ScottK> Dual posted ML discussions are a nightmare.
[23:09] <ScottK> He should formulate his thoughts and post to the ubuntu-server ML.
[23:12] <TheLordOfTime> ScottK:  then may I just give you a link to the discussion on the archives of the mailing lists so I can get your comments before I respond to the latest email in the chain?
[23:12] <ScottK> I've been reading it.
[23:13] <TheLordOfTime> ah so you're already there
[23:13] <TheLordOfTime> you can give opinions on the latest one :p
[23:15] <ScottK> I think he should write the server ML.
[23:17] <TheLordOfTime> ScottK:  and ask the server mailing list about it before the discussion gets any further?
[23:17] <ScottK> I think the sooner he talks on the server ML the better, but kind of up to him when his thoughts are fully formed enough to feel comfortable with it.
[23:18] <ScottK> He also ought to look over the existing server test cases, because I think they kind of do what he's saying already.
[23:18] <TheLordOfTime> I think he's trying to have a group that goes beyond the testcases
[23:20] <TheLordOfTime> ScottK:  i couldn't convince you to reply to their latest email and suggest they take a look at the existing server testcases, could I?
[23:21] <ScottK> No.
[23:21] <ScottK> But feel free to say I said it in a mail you write.


[02:08] <linuxman410> anyone here
[02:10] <wrst> hey linuxman410
[02:12] <linuxman410> wrst howare ya
[02:13] <wrst> good linuxman410 trying out gnome3 how are you?
[02:14] <linuxman410> doing good you have anything to trade i am trying to trade a external 500 gb harddrive i do not need
[02:15] <cyberanger> hey linuxman410
[02:15] <linuxman410> cyberanger how r u
[02:15] <cyberanger> not too bad
[02:16] <wrst> not really linuxman410 how much you want for it?
[02:16] <cyberanger> how about you?
[02:16] <linuxman410> doing ok cyberanger
[02:17] <linuxman410> wrst i would rather not sell it cause it probably would not bring much
[02:18] <linuxman410> i bought it it still has the plastic on it i never opened
[02:22] <linuxman410> cyberanger you been up to anything
[02:23] <cyberanger> a few things, been working with Xastir, a APRS client written for linux
[02:23] <cyberanger> and soundmodem, which works in place of a true KISS TNC
[02:23] <cyberanger> one intresting project
[02:24] <cyberanger> and trying to get some loco related project ideas going
[02:24] <cyberanger> and think of more
[02:25] <linuxman410> cyberanger do you know what a shuttle computer is
[02:25] <cyberanger> small form factor case
[02:25] <linuxman410> the little squarebox cas
[02:26] <linuxman410> case
[02:26] <cyberanger> shuttle being a company that manufactured them
[02:26] <cyberanger> yeah
[02:26] <linuxman410> do you have any of those
[02:26] <cyberanger> no, not yet
[02:27] <linuxman410> cyberanger do you know of a website where you can trade computer equipment
[02:27] <cyberanger> more netbooks smartphones and laptops
[02:27] <cyberanger> and desktops than I can use
[02:28] <cyberanger> not really, no
[02:28] <cyberanger> maybe some computer stores will
[02:28] <cyberanger> I know the one here does
[02:28] <linuxman410> i am trying to trade a 500 gb external harddrive
[02:31] <linuxman410> cyberanger i would sell it but it probably would not bring much
[02:32] <cyberanger> well, that is the hdd market, idk if you'd find anywhere that is truely balanced
[02:33] <cyberanger> you kinda have to decide what it's worth, and find somebody who agrees, and if they don't look harder or settle
[02:35] <cyberanger> 1tb drives have dropped to half of what they were a year ago
[02:35] <cyberanger> two years ago, I bought a 300GB for what 1TB is today
[02:53] <wrst> i would have given himsomething for it probably i could kinda use a drive like that
[03:12] <cyberanger> Yeah, I mean I wasn't saying it couldn't be done
[03:12] <cyberanger> just that it's an effort
[03:12] <cyberanger> time spent looking for the right offer
[03:12] <cyberanger> or value lost to saving time
[03:12] <wrst> yeah its not worth much that's for sure but if it were esata it has some value
[14:21] <pace_t_zulu_> wrst: checking out kde in kubuntu 11.04 b2 ... kde has come a really long way!
[21:00] <wrst> pace_t_zulu: yeah kde is much improved its almost useable now :)
[21:14] <chris4585> thats something I haven't tried in a while
[21:32] <wrst> chris4585: kde?
[21:33] <chris4585> yes
[21:33] <chris4585> I figured I would wait a while before trying it again and maybe it would be excellent to play with..
[22:06] <wrst> chris4585: itsmuch better


[00:01] <canthus13> I'm looking at this one, though: http://www.dell.com/us/p/inspiron-15z-5523/pd?oc=fncwg21h&model_id=inspiron-15z-5523&ref=2065int_anav#!stoneId=configTab
[00:01] <canthus13> It doesn't appear to have that optimus crap.
[00:17] <jrgifford> on the other hand canthus13
[00:17] <jrgifford> fedora seems to work nice, even with the ati card.
[01:38] <canthus13> jrgifford: I'm really not a fan of fedora. :/
[01:38] <Cheri703> I have an ati card in my desktop and it's happy with xubuntu :)
[01:40] <canthus13> Cheri703: My specific issue is with laptops with dual video cards.. intel + (ATi/AMD | nVidia)
[01:41] <canthus13> The whole switched video cards thing seems to screw with Linux.
[01:41] <Cheri703> gotcha. paultag indicated to me that ati+intel > nVidia
[01:41] <canthus13> Not from what I've been reading.
[01:41] <paultag> no way
[01:41] <canthus13> and for gaming, I'll stick with nVidia.
[01:41] <paultag> intel > nvidia > ati
[01:41] <paultag> intel is great
[01:42] <Cheri703> paultag: you told me not to get the lenovo w/nvidia?
[01:42] <paultag> Oh you mean the bumblebee
[01:42] <canthus13> paultag: Intel sucks for gaming applications or password cracking.
[01:42] <paultag> yeah
[01:42] <Cheri703> I dunno
[01:42] <paultag> canthus13: who cares :)
[01:42] <paultag> Cheri703: yeah, I hate the optimus or whatever
[01:42] <canthus13> paultag: Me.
[01:42] <paultag> that one is an abortion with Linux
[01:42] <paultag> canthus13: OK :)
[01:43]  * paultag would just rent an EC2 node with a tesla grid hookup
[01:43] <canthus13> Fortunately, the laptop I linked seems to not include optimus, so I'm happy. I wonder if the touch screen will work.
[01:44]  * canthus13 asked a Dell rep, who checked with a supervisor to be sure.
[01:44] <canthus13> It was either that or the System76 machine for ~700 bucks more. :/
[01:45] <canthus13> ...and a 17" laptop is a bit too big for my tastes.
[01:47]  * canthus13 is also building a couple of machines for his boys next week.  AMD FX-6100 CPUs, 8GB ram, Geforce GT-640.
[01:47] <canthus13> ...shit. I forgot to order drives.
[01:54] <jrgifford> canthus13: where in OH are you again? We might have some drives at work we could let go for a reasonable price, if you're nearby.
[01:54] <canthus13> Toledo.
[01:54] <jrgifford> forget it then.
[01:54] <canthus13> Heh.
[01:54] <jrgifford> thats like, half way across the state.
[01:55] <jrgifford> not worth driving to pick up gently used 150-350GB HDDs.
[01:56] <Cheri703> priority mail flat rate box $4.95
[01:56] <jrgifford> and used hard drives are a bit of a raw deal anyway
[01:56] <jrgifford> was just thinking out loud.
[01:57]  * canthus13 nods.
[01:57]  * canthus13 ordered a couple of 500GB drives. 54 bucks each.
[01:58] <canthus13> (WD because they have a pretty decent warranty and cross-ship, unlike newegg.)
[01:58] <jrgifford> that'll work
[01:59] <jrgifford> blue or black?
[02:00] <canthus13> Green.
[02:01]  * jrgifford nods
[02:01] <canthus13> There's no longer an issue with linux and the green drives iirc.
[02:01] <jrgifford> i will claim ignorance and say i didn't know there was one to begin with.
[02:02] <canthus13> There was when they first came out... I don't recall exactly, but I think they were dying prematurely under linux.
[02:03] <skellat> jrgifford: Could you do a presentation on using git with Launchpad perhaps for the next educational session?
[02:03] <jrgifford> skellat: gah, did they ever land that?
[02:03] <jrgifford> i remember hearing rumours about that, and how painful it was.
[02:04] <jrgifford> skellat:  i could look into it
[02:04] <jrgifford> no promises though
[02:05] <skellat> jrgifford: I know there is a git connector in bzr, I just don't know if there is a bzr connector in git
[02:05] <skellat> That would be the only way to do it, to the best of my knowledge
[02:09] <skellat> Crap, there is no connector listed in teh repo...I'll need to think about this some more
[02:09] <jrgifford> you can do automated git imports of it.
[02:09] <jrgifford> (to LP)
[02:10] <Unit193> Or you could just use bitbucket and be done with it. :P
[02:10] <Unit193> That way you aren't stuck with bzr either.
[02:11] <jrgifford> what, mercurial?
[02:11] <Unit193> git.
[02:11] <jrgifford> at least it's got a decent branching model.
[02:12] <jrgifford> oh, right.
[02:12] <jrgifford> bitbucket is where i stick code i want to quietly put out of the way.
[02:12] <jrgifford> github is where i'm like "OMG LETS JUST OPEN SOURCE EVERYTHING"
[02:12] <skellat> Unit193: Launchpad is part of our infrastructure, though, as it fuels the PPA system.  That's why I'd want to see it brought up in an educational session.
[02:12] <Unit193> Bitbucket lets you pick hg or git, and you can have private repos too. :D
[02:13] <Unit193> skellat: Yeah, they do PPAs, which can be useful indeed.  I just don't really like bzr.
[02:13] <jrgifford> bzr has its place.
[02:13] <jrgifford> for projects that deal with LP.
[02:13] <jrgifford> everything, why?
[02:14] <jrgifford> juju is moving from bzr to git, because that's where the upstreams are.
[02:14] <skellat> Launchpad at least is part of the Ubuntu galaxy of infrastructure thingies that provides for PPAs and bug reporting
[02:15] <jrgifford> an OS should be decoupled from the tools used to develop it
[02:15] <jrgifford> just like i'm not tied to using vim because i do rails, or emacs because i do django, or an ide because i do android.
[02:16] <jrgifford> being tied to a tool that just reinvents the wheel, and doesn't do it particularly well, and isn't used outside of a very, very small section of the open source galaxy is just gross to me.
[02:16] <jrgifford> (and nobody interpret that as i'm being unthankful for the LP and BZR teams - they do awesome stuff, and both have earned my respect)
[02:17] <skellat> jrgifford: Well, could you then talk about how to break away from LP dependence and how members of the LoCo can most easily roll their own compilations of software perhaps?
[02:17] <Unit193> Except, they use python.
[02:17] <jrgifford> skellat: ./configure; make; make install
[02:18] <skellat> jrgifford: That's the easy answer.  Things like armhf show that it is rarely that simple in practice.  Of course, using something like checkinstall could at least help by giving you something that is removable via APT.
[02:19] <jrgifford> skellat: so would a session on "hosting code on github and using LP recipes for PPAs" work?
[02:19] <paultag> skellat: what about armhf?
[02:19] <jrgifford> s/github/whatever-git-server-you-want-to-host-things-on
[02:19] <paultag> c-m-m-install should work with armhf if you're on armhf, so it knows to use the v8 march or hf abi
[02:19] <paultag> if not, you can tweak gcc's default flags
[02:19] <skellat> paultag: My dreaded issues with FTBFS because I forgot to look deeply at what configure flags need to be set
[02:21] <skellat> paultag: Then sometimes I deal with monstrosities like this that are nasty enough to get running on i386: http://www.greenstone.org/
[02:21] <skellat> jrgifford: Github and LP recipes does sound interesting
[02:22] <skellat> You would need to declare prerequisites, though
[02:22] <skellat> As I would assume there would be some prerequisite knowledge needed to best grasp the information presented
[02:22] <jrgifford> a web browser
[02:22] <jrgifford> basic idea of what a shell script looks like
[02:24] <skellat> Okay
[02:24] <skellat> That sounds cool
[02:24] <Unit193> Recipe version .4 gave build errors due to buildd problems, had to revert to .3
[02:25] <skellat> jrgifford: How long would you need to prep?
[02:25] <jrgifford> skellat: uh, not so much how much time, it's when would i be able to present
[02:26] <skellat> Well, setting up a poll on Doodle and putting it out on the listserv would be the way to pick the date
[02:26] <skellat> As well as the time
[02:26] <jrgifford> i'm not my own master when it comes to scheduling yet.
[02:26] <jrgifford> both a blessing and a curse.... :\
[02:27] <skellat> It is okay
[02:27] <skellat> We've got 27 days left to the month too
[02:28] <skellat> It isn't like this is a crash priority thing that must be ready for the Monday that immediately follows the Super Bowl...which would be bonkers any way...
[02:28] <jrgifford> sounds fun
[02:29] <skellat> The best thing to do is build a slide deck, outline what you want to say, and then figure out a way to give 48-72 hours notice of showtime
[02:29] <jrgifford> mkay
[02:30] <jrgifford> i'll look into writing a slidedeck sometime this weekend/week
[02:30] <skellat> No worries
[02:30] <skellat> Cheri703 can probably give further suggestions on timing and the like
[02:30] <Cheri703> hrm?
[02:31] <skellat> Hello Cheri
[02:32] <skellat> jrgifford expressed interest in taking the chair for our next educational session and we've been discussing possible session topics while I mentioned you might able to help with figuring out timing for delivery and the like
[02:34] <Cheri703> ah, yeah. and we don't have to do one EVERY MONTH, like...it can be once every two months, or once per quarter or something
[02:35] <skellat> I know.
[02:36] <skellat> Whatever we can do for activity
[02:37] <skellat> Oh, and here is what our team report looks like for January: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OhioTeam/TeamReports/13/January
[02:50] <skellat> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TeamReports/January2013
[02:51]  * skellat wanders off
[04:06] <Unit193> vmware-view-client is now in partner, for those that use it.
[10:40] <shieh> my synaptic package manager language changed to chinese.how can i fix it?
[13:47] <jrgifford> Unit193: yeah, i saw that. interesting.


[04:22] <heysoundude> is anyone running 19.10 on a RasPi 3B+??
[04:24] <heysoundude> either everyone is on Telegram, or asleep...
 I don't have a pi
[16:11] <doc499> hi, i know it's still a bit premature, but will there be any "gotchas" when upgrading from 18.04 lts to the next lts release in apr 2021? like in terms of upgrading from lxde to lxqt or how autostart programs are handled, etc.?
[16:48] <teward> doc499: NORMALLY that kind of issue is detailed in the release notes but it's FAR too early for that.  and next 'lts' is 20.04 in April 2020 ;P
[16:48] <teward> not 2021
[17:04] <doc499> teward, wiki says it's support until apr 2021 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lubuntu#Releases so i guess i got confused between release schedule and support schedule
[17:04] <teward> 'support' is when there's no more support for that version provider
[17:04] <teward> *release* schedule is different :)
[17:05] <doc499> right, now i know, so i'll worry about release issues next spring i guess...thanks for your help
[19:00] <Hunhow> How do I change the resolution on the newest version?
[19:01] <Hunhow> I’m on a live right now and may replace Mint with this
[19:02] <wxl> what do you call the latest version?
[19:02] <wxl> sorry but people literally interpret this different ways
[19:03] <Hunhow> Really? Well the live iso that’s marked as latest. 19.04 I believe
[19:03] <Hunhow> JUST grabbed the iso
[19:03] <wxl> ok good. that's the *right* answer XD
[19:03] <Hunhow> Kek
[19:04] <wxl> Preferences >> LXQt Settings >> Monitor settings
[19:04] <Hunhow> Also 17 was the best one. Used it in a VM for quite a while.  It defaults to 4K because I’m using my tv atm since the motherboard I bought doesn’t have onboard wifi
[19:24] <Hunhow> I’m confused on dual booting. How do I make it use my Lubuntu partition I just made?
[19:24] <Hunhow> Defaults to Mint rn
[19:24] <wxl> hold down shift when it's booting to get the grub menu and select lubuntu
[19:25] <Hunhow> Doesn’t show
[19:25] <wxl> what doesn't show?
[19:25] <Hunhow> Lubuntu
[19:25] <Hunhow> Im in Grub rn
[19:25] <teward> boot into mint and do `update-grub`
[19:25] <teward> with sudo if necessary
[19:25] <teward> then reboot see if Lubuntu shows
[19:25] <wxl> shouldn't need to but............
[19:26] <teward> wxl: unless Grub did a stupid :)
[19:26]  * wxl shrugs
[19:30] <Hunhow> Oh that’s nice
[19:30] <Hunhow> That just WORKED
[19:30] <Hunhow> Thanks
[19:31] <teward> Hunhow: you mean the grub update command I indicated?
[19:31] <teward> and then it "Just Worked" ?
[19:32] <Hunhow> Yes
[19:33] <Hunhow> I’m more surprised at how Lubuntu just worked straightaway. Mint has issues with my Athlon 220GE and Vega 3
[19:38] <Hunhow> I’ve installed sysbench and it doesn’t show up in my dock
[19:41] <Hunhow> Oh never mind. Hardinfo was what I needed
[20:55] <Hunhow> Lubuntu usb killed my install of Mint, but now doesn’t boot
 wow, wxl, it fixed broken XD!!
 Hunhow: don't panic, might be some issues with grub, unforunatelly I'm not expert on it.
[21:09] <Hunhow> Let’s not DIE this time. I tried that /boot/efi thing but I can’t click next after I do so.
[21:12] <Hunhow> Wait nvm.  How big does the partition need to be?
[21:13] <Hunhow> 1Gb work?
[21:20] <Hunhow> Yeah sorry for flooding chat a little. Got it fixed


[17:28] <EvilResistance> anyone from the IRCC or ops team online?  got a question about PPAs and recommending them for certain support cases in the Ubuntu IRC channels
[17:29] <AlanBell> funnily enough we had a topic on that at the team meeting last night
[17:29] <AlanBell> must do the minutes
[17:30] <EvilResistance> funny that i was stuck in a 12 hour conference, having to spend 4 hours giving an extraordinarily detailed description of how much Microsoft Sharepoint is a pain to develop in >.>
[17:30] <EvilResistance> ANYWAYS
[17:32] <pangolin> EvilResistance: it is fine to recommend PPA's if you explain the possible drawbacks and make it clear that they are not officially supported.
[17:32] <EvilResistance> to my question:  the nginx team (and incidentially, the GC for #nginx here on freenode) runs a PPA that has up-to-date releases of nginx.  is recommending that "official ppa" as is referenced on the nginx site acceptable when a person's issue is fixed by upgrading?
[17:32] <EvilResistance> pangolin, indeed, although you should read my last message for a very very specific case
[17:33] <EvilResistance> s/upgrading/upgrading the package/
[17:33] <pangolin> if upgrading via the official repos fixes the issue then I think it is best to suggest that but if for whatever reason the user can't or won't upgrade, recommend the ppa
[17:34] <pangolin> EvilResistance: common sense and best judgement :)
[17:34] <EvilResistance> :P
[17:34] <EvilResistance> the only reason i ask is because a lot of the questions seen in #nginx are for ancient versions of nginx that are from the Ubuntu repos, (11.04 / 11.10), and the first thing recommended over in the nginx channel is "Upgrade using the PPA"
[17:35] <EvilResistance> so... i was curious what #ubuntu wanted ;P
[17:35] <pangolin> EvilResistance: it is one of those iffy situations. we do our best to advise the user. Final decision is up to them.
[17:35] <EvilResistance> i see.
[17:36] <pangolin> in #ubuntu I think it was decided yesterday that it is fine to recommend PPA's as long as we also let them know of potential dangers involved
[17:37] <oCean> But since no one knows the dangers...
[17:37] <oCean> etc
[17:37] <pangolin> as for what #nginx recommends, we can't really do much about it.
[17:37] <pangolin> I am glad there is a #nginx for the users to get support in if they have issues with the ppa
[17:37] <EvilResistance> they also provide legacy support
[17:37] <EvilResistance> but for the record, the versions in 11.04 and 11.10 qualify as legacy
[17:38] <EvilResistance> (as for 12.04, they've got the upgraded versions from Debian)
[17:38] <EvilResistance> (and those arent legacy)
[17:38] <pangolin> oCean: We do know what the dangers are.  possible complete system explosion
[17:39] <oCean> pangolin: I mean dangers/risks of this specific ppa
[17:39] <oCean> but, nvm, let's not get that discussion again
[17:39] <EvilResistance> :P
[17:39] <pangolin> EvilResistance: I think you are smart enough to use your best judgement when helping a user. I don't believe we need to make rules for every possible situation.
[17:40] <AlanBell> EvilResistance: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/SupportersGuide
[17:40] <oCean> EvilResistance: so, nginx will be >1.0 in 12.04?
[17:40] <EvilResistance> oCean, lemme double-check the precise repos, i'll get you a better answer, but about a month ago, nginx was updated in Debian to be more recent
[17:40] <EvilResistance> however...
[17:40] <EvilResistance> *coughs*
[17:40] <oCean> !info nginx precise
[17:40] <EvilResistance> they decided to put the *development* code into Debian
[17:41] <EvilResistance> yeah, that's the version in debian
[17:41] <AlanBell> "(Only available for any all)" whut??
[17:41] <oCean> Aha
[17:41] <EvilResistance> which is actually running developmental code
[17:41]  * EvilResistance knows the Debian maintainer, he's also the guy running the nginx ppa
[17:51] <EvilResistance> i'm actually slightly concerned about the nginx team's decision to put developmental code into Debian
[17:51] <EvilResistance> but i'm not in a position on the nginx irc team to do anything about it
[17:52] <EvilResistance> (except voice my concerns :/)


[00:21] <brobostigon> nos da, sleep well everyone.
[11:33] <brobostigon> morning everyone.
[16:21] <TonyBurn> afternoon
[19:30]  * brobostigon returns from pub.