[13:16] <OvenWerks> zequence: I don't know if you saw any of it or not. Xubuntu had a meeting yesterday and the the logs would be interesting if you haven't already.
[13:18] <OvenWerks> zequence: much talk about MIR, mostly about how it works (or doesn't) and how ready it is likely to be for 13.10.
[13:19] <OvenWerks> zequence: Xubuntu will be deciding on XMIR/xorg mid August.
[13:21] <OvenWerks> zequence: going into the future, Ubuntu has said MIR will be _the_ X that is supported.
[13:23] <OvenWerks> After 13.10, Canonical intends not to support xorg. I do not know that is a problem. We use a lot of SW now that is in the Ubuntu repos, but not supported.
[13:26] <OvenWerks> zequence: XFCE has no plan to ever support or write a MIR back end. There are very few devs (two?) and there is not enough time etc.
[13:29] <OvenWerks> What this means is that come 14.04, when XMIR is to be replaced with MIR, Xfce's experience with MIR's X compatability will be a good indication for Studio if our SW will work with MIR or not.
[13:31] <OvenWerks> It will also be a good indication if there will be performance issues of the translation layer in MIR that takes X commands and tells MIR how to render them.
[13:33] <OvenWerks> I would suggest that going forward, Audio will become less of a testing priority and video/graphics/GUI will require more of our attention.
[13:38] <OvenWerks> That is, we will need to spend more time testing video applications, particularely KDE based apps. (which should still work with MIR)
[13:40] <OvenWerks> One question I have not even seen asked, is if there is any thought given in The MIR group to supporting/translating wayland interfaces... where the rest of the Linux community and SW are going.
[13:47] <zequence> OvenWerks: My understanding is that xorg will be community supported from there on. How good/bad that is, I have no clue - and what that will do to the other flavors in the long run, but since we always have the choice to use something else, or whatever works, we won't of course be technically affected, like some of the other flavors
[13:48] <zequence> We could engage in the problem, to give opinions and support to the others. We could play a role in the community.
[13:50] <zequence> Me, personally, won't have the resources to add much to it. And my goal is really to understand the maintenance infrastructure better, packaging, ISO building, seeds, etc
[13:50] <zequence> and how to adapt Ubuntu Studio to other flavors
[13:51] <zequence> I've been thinking about the possibility to add us to other flavor installers, at least the audio workflow
[13:52] <zequence> already my goal is to change from audio group to something else, and make it default on all flavors, so jack always works in realtime when installed
[13:53] <zequence> some of these things just need to be organized, and the technical aspects solved, and then try push for the change
[13:54] <zequence> was disconnected from the internet for about 24h, so again, not able to get much done :P
[13:55] <zequence> by adding us to other flavors, I don't mean the audio applications, just the core components to make any flavor audio friendly - kernel, settings and maybe jack
[19:56] <Mish> zequence: I've made some icons with colours. They are in here  ---   https://www.wuala.com/Mishrito/Icons/?key=CRBaTkk2DEln
[19:56] <Mish> They are for Audio and Graphics and I took the colours from the slideshow of the UBS homepage you showed me
[19:57] <Mish> There are two versions of each, one with the object and one with the corresponding letter
[19:58] <Mish> But that probably wouldn't work out since I'd be stuck at photography and publishing since both start with P
[19:58] <Mish> but I put it there anyways so you can see what it looks like
[19:59] <Mish> Is it similar to what you had in mind?
[20:05] <zequence> Mish: I thought your original icons looked quite nice, so I was just imagining those with colored backgrounds. As for the content of the image, the headphones, brush, etc, I suppose I imagined those white, just as they are originally. If you'd like suggestions for colors, I could have a moment to think about that, but otherwise, just choose which ever ones you feel is right yourself.
[20:05] <zequence> That's just how I pictured it. Doesn't matter what it ends up being, as long as it works :)
[20:12] <Mish> So just the old icons with coloured background?  Ok I'll do that. And I'll just take the colours from that slideshow for consistency
[20:12] <zequence> Mish: Don't worry about the slideshow. Those are really random
[20:13] <Mish> So can they be changed easily?
[20:13] <zequence> I'd rather create a more sensible set of colors, and later adapt the slideshow to those
[20:13] <zequence> We just create new artwork for that later, and also, we could use the colors for our workflows in other situations too
[20:13] <zequence> like in documentation, or the feature tour
[20:14] <zequence> the choice of colors might be a really interesting one, especially as it seems some colors have very different meaning in different cultures
[20:15] <zequence> maybe they don't need to make sense, just look pretty, I don't know
[20:16] <zequence> photo could be red, or black (like film), audio could be blue or red (like the rec button). publishing could be white as paper (but then the content would need to be black), or yellow, etc
[20:17] <zequence> the classic blue is a nice blue, I think. I would start with that, and make the other colors have similar strength in color
[20:17] <zequence> Mish: I used three colors for our wiki https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio
[20:17] <Mish> with colours the main thing would be to make them look good in both light and dark environments. I've been pained by so many apps, mostly java apps using SWT that don't respect GTK+ apps properly and end up forcing white backgrounds despite me having a dark GTK theme, making text sometimes unreadable and graphics look ugly
[20:18] <zequence> not sure if that blue is the classic one, actually, but probably close
[20:19] <Mish> for that reason I tend to avoid java apps
[20:20] <Mish> ok cool got it


[14:25] <AnhVoMSFT> @smoser @Odd_Bloke that clock jump is expected for VMs that have been pre-provisioned. cloud-init can block "waiting for media state change" for hours or days, or in some extreme case weeks. Is there an undesirable behavior arising from the clock jump?
[14:29] <AnhVoMSFT> looking at the log you provided in the ticket I could confirm from our data that the VM indeed was pre-provisioned. The prediction isn't based on the user's particular usage but rather based on the overall demand for the particular vm size/region/image...
[14:38] <smoser> AnhVoMSFT: but it seems unlikely (to me at least) that that system was a pre-provision
[14:42] <Odd_Bloke> smoser: Didn't Anh just confirm that it was pre-provisioned?
[14:44] <Odd_Bloke> (And it sounds like the pre-provisioning doesn't happen per-user, but instead happens within a region and then the pre-provisioned instances are assigned to an account on "launch".  Given that, no user can infer whether to expect pre-provisioned VMs or not.)
[14:44] <smoser> well, yes. but i didn't read that before typing. :)~
[14:46] <AnhVoMSFT> yes, it was indeed a pre-provisioned VM (confirmed from cloud-init log itself, and from the backend, using the data available in cloud-init log)
[14:46]  * smoser downloads the 'logs.tgz.gz' file which is infact a gzipped gzipped tarball
[14:47] <AnhVoMSFT> lol - i just clickeda couple times on 7z and finally got to the log. I did wonder why it was gzipped a couple times
[14:51] <smoser> i suspect that 'ubuntu-bug' is doing something generically now that it wasn't originally doing
[14:51] <smoser> or launchpad is magically gzipping files longer than X or something.
[14:54] <smoser> it feels almost too perfect to me
[14:55] <smoser> that the system did not generate *any* journal entries betwee May 17 at 17:03 and May 26 at 13:52
[14:56] <Odd_Bloke> I believe pre-provisioned VMs are suspended?
[14:56] <Odd_Bloke> (Maybe I'm inventing that as an explanation for this behaviour though. :p)
[14:56] <smoser> well.. some time ago they told me that that was just not possible
[14:56] <smoser> as i suggested that is how they should do it.
[14:56] <AnhVoMSFT> whether it's suspended or not is an implementation detail that can change, I believe. I think today they're not suspended
[14:57] <smoser> i susggesetd, as all the cloud-init magic would seem generally unnecessary if it got suspended.
[14:57] <AnhVoMSFT> however they might be in the future as they figure out some way to do it (I'm not in that team but did hear some plan about it a while back)
[14:57] <smoser> the platform could just say "oh, this instance id isn't ready yet - stop its cpu"
[14:58] <Odd_Bloke> Yeah, I guess properly suspended wouldn't bump the timestamps the way we're seeing.
[14:58] <smoser> well, it would
[14:58] <AnhVoMSFT> the system is indeed eerily quiet during that time. I think we ran tcpdump and saw almost no incoming/outgoing packet during that time
[14:58] <smoser> as your laptop counts uptime even when suspended
[14:58] <smoser> (i think... althoguh maybe i saw somethign about a kernel feature that did or did not do that)
[15:00] <AnhVoMSFT> i think the cloud-init "magic" was meant to save on kernel initialization and python module loading overhead
[15:02] <AnhVoMSFT> for smaller VM sizes a smaller number of IOPS is allocated to the VM and as such they would benefit more from pre-provisioning
[15:08] <AnhVoMSFT> @Odd_Bloke did you guys cut an SRU yet?
[15:09] <AnhVoMSFT> I saw a github release 6 days ago ubuntu/20.2-30-g8bcf1c06-0ubuntu1 - is this the SRU?
[15:12] <blackboxsw> AnhVoMSFT: we just landed branches last night to fixup a daily build recipe. and yes AnhVoMSFT that 'version' of cloud-init will be what we kick off the SRU for.
[15:13] <blackboxsw> AnhVoMSFT: I'll talk with the team today. I hope to queue the upload of the SRU this afternoon
[15:13] <blackboxsw> and will post to this channel and the mailinglist when ready for our verification.
[15:16] <Odd_Bloke> AnhVoMSFT: We expect to be doing another SRU in the next 3-6 weeks for https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/358
[17:50] <falcojr> hrmph
[17:50] <falcojr> looks like pyflakes doesn't provide a way to ignore a line
[17:50] <falcojr> and it's complaining about my "from feature_overrides import *" line
[17:50] <falcojr> can we ditch pyflakes and pycodestyle in favor of flake8?
[17:51] <falcojr> doesn't make sense to use two different tools when one covers the same functionality
[17:51] <falcojr> and lets you ignore lines :D
[17:52] <falcojr> pyflakes github even says "If you like Pyflakes but also want stylistic checks, you want flake8, which combines Pyflakes with style checks against PEP 8 and adds per-project configuration ability."
[17:58] <meena> 19:50 <falcojr> can we ditch pyflakes and pycodestyle in favor of flake8? ← i thought i had recently seen a commit that got rid of flake8 xD
[18:00] <powersj> falcojr, the feature flags need to import *?
[18:03] <falcojr> yeah, as a means to provide a way to override them
[18:03] <falcojr> discussion on it starts here
[18:03] <falcojr> https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/367#issuecomment-630213500
[18:05]  * powersj has some reading to do
[18:07] <falcojr> huh, didn't know it was ever in the project, but it was removed here
[18:07] <falcojr> https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/commit/80dfb3b023a268d6d6204220665c2cf43eac66df
[18:07] <falcojr> flake8 entails everything pyflakes and pycodestyle does
[18:12] <meena> i know, i use it… elsewhere.
[18:27] <rharper> Odd_Bloke: so meena 's https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/385  is good to go, except github shows it waiting on travis status, however, the two runs for the PR are green, https://travis-ci.org/github/canonical/cloud-init/builds/691054573
[18:42] <rharper> meena: nice! close/open does the trick =)
[18:42] <rharper> new job pending
[18:49] <blackboxsw> paride: thanks for all the reviews on the ubuntu/*  branches dropping pyflakes. I've checked our daily build CI runs for focal and we are all green on lxd/kvm using the newly built debs from yesterday.   rharper Odd_Bloke paride I think we want to turn on our ec2-f CI integration test running and drop ec2-e https://jenkins.ubuntu.com/server/view/cloud-init,%20curtin,%20streams/job/cloud-init-integration-ec2-f/
[18:49] <blackboxsw> ^ what do you folks think ^ on the jenkins running for ec2-f: on ec2-e: off?
[18:49] <blackboxsw> or both on.
[18:50] <blackboxsw> or even ec2-g ec2-f ec2-b would probably be more appropriate
[18:50] <rharper> blackboxsw: e is not yet EOL, no ?
[18:50] <rharper> so, +1 on ec2-g, f and b
[18:50] <rharper> and I suspect we leave e on  until EoL
[18:51] <blackboxsw> rharper: nope you're right
[18:51] <blackboxsw> I'll enable them now. and put a PR up for server-jenkins-jobs to fix that (and the default )
[18:52] <rharper> hrm,  ubuntu-distro-info  ; I thought used to show the EoL date (or days of support left etc)
[18:52] <rharper> is that gone now ?
[18:52] <rharper> or am I thinking of a different tool ?
[18:53] <blackboxsw> I aways looked at the raw /usr/share/distro-info/ubuntu.csv
[18:53] <blackboxsw> now there are two eols :)
[18:53] <blackboxsw> with esm around
[18:53] <blackboxsw> well 3 actually: eol,eol-server,eol-esm
[18:54] <Odd_Bloke> falcojr: Yep, I also want to switch back to flake8 for a task I have on my plate ATM.
[18:54] <Odd_Bloke> falcojr: But given my current state (back pain, for those following along at home), you should feel free to go ahead and DIY.
[18:55] <rharper> blackboxsw: heh
[18:56] <rharper> blackboxsw: so close, 2020-07-17
[18:56] <blackboxsw> ok so we'll turn it on and add a timebomb for 2020-07-17
[18:57] <blackboxsw> like if date >= 2020-07-17 raise RuntimeError :)
[18:57] <blackboxsw> RuntimeError('remember to turn this job off after 2020-07-17')
[19:00] <rharper> hehe, no need for timebombs;  I don't think
[19:00] <rharper> maybe a trello card
[19:06] <Odd_Bloke> rharper: I think you were thinking of `ubuntu-distro-info --days=eol --series eoan`
[19:06] <rharper> yes
[19:06] <rharper> the no-input help message not the default --help message
[19:06] <rharper> =/
[19:07]  * rharper needs more breadcumbs
[19:10] <Odd_Bloke> rharper: I only know the minutiae of u-d-i because, well, lol: https://github.com/OddBloke/distro-info-rs
[19:11] <rharper> nice!
[19:11] <Odd_Bloke> I think that needs updating for ESM, actuallly.
[19:38] <kamoser> Hi all, when I have a package list like "packages:
[19:39] <kamoser> how can I ensure 2 and 3 are installed even if 1 fails?
[19:40] <kamoser> Reason for this is to simplify installs across distros. So in case the first package works on Amazon Linux but fails on Ubuntu, I want the rest of the packages to install
[19:40] <meena> kamoser: you could use a jinja2 template for your cloud-config
[19:47] <kamoser> meena Thanks. I assume you mean write statements based on the distro like "install package if Ubuntu"
[19:47] <kamoser> I will look into that, I have use Jinja with Salt previously
[19:47] <meena> is everyone fleeing Salt rn?
[19:48] <rharper> kamoser: what meena means is your #cloud-config file can *be* a jinja2 template directly, cloud-init itself can fill out the template with cloud-init provided values, like the distro name;   ##template: jinja\n#cloud-config\npackages:\n{{ jinja logic here}}
[19:49] <rharper> kamoser: it's also a reasonable feature request,  if you'd like, file an issue at https://bugs.launchpad.net/cloud-init/+filebug
[19:53] <kamoser> rharper Thanks! I will do that as well. It would be hard to guarantee the package list doesn't change in the future, and our AMIs build automatically. Appreciate the help from both of you.
[19:54] <rharper> kamoser: so, you might look at using a #include URL to your list
[19:54] <rharper> so you can independently modify the "packages" cloud-config from the AMI itself
[19:54] <rharper> cloud-init will fetch cloud-config from a URL
[19:54] <rharper> you can use object store as well, but only via http (not sure if you need it to be pulled via https);
[19:56] <kamoser> rharper awesome options. thanks :)
[19:56] <rharper> yw
[20:18] <meena> rharper: i… disagree :P failures should fail… although, installing packages does tend to be very transitively… <word that explains things>
[20:18] <rharper> meena: I think we're on the same page ... I would not change the *default* behavior; rather, if folks wanted to ignore install failures, that seems like a reasonable option for users to control;
[20:19] <rharper> meena: another though would be to extend the config space, to a dictionary, which could specify package lists under distro keys;
[20:19] <rharper> it's worth having a bug to discuss options
[20:20] <meena> rharper: *nod *nod *nod
[20:31] <blackboxsw> rharper: Odd_Bloke game of would you rather: our new-upstream-snapshot automatically updates to latest commit on master, and we released to groovy a few days ago so other commits have landed. Do we want to extend new-upstream-snapshot to take a commitish from which to 'snapshot' or do we want to propose a new groovy upload right now  and queue an upload for SRU with what has currently landed since 8bcf1c06
[20:31] <kamoser> I changed my template to say "## template: jinja
[20:31] <kamoser> #cloud-config". Should the header remain as Content-Type: text/cloud-config or should it be changed to text/jinja2? I don't see examples in the docs that clarify this point, but I am probably being dumb.
[20:31] <blackboxsw> rharper: Odd_Bloke queuing a groovy upload should be 5 mins of work
[20:31] <blackboxsw> +1 review time.
[20:32] <blackboxsw> an extension to new-upstream-snapshot to take an optional commitish  could be helpful for future SRUs if we know that reviewers will trail authors when reviewing the upload PRs
[20:34] <blackboxsw> here's the list of extra commits in tip of master at the moment https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/jScGYQWVFY/
[20:35] <blackboxsw> one functional change for ubuntu, couple unit tests/CI, contributors signed up and bsd enablement for cfg mgmt (doesn't affect ubuntu-proper)
[20:42] <rharper> blackboxsw: ok ...  I need to do a PR on new-upstream-snapshot too to help for the "first-time-sru" scenario ;  maybe you ran into it already ;  I currently used: new-upstream-snapshot --no-bugs --sur-bug XXXX which mostly DTRT (with exception of not appending ~XX.YY.1 to the release version string
[20:44] <blackboxsw> right rharper https://trello.com/c/YZue6zO9/35-new-upstream-snapshot-needs-to-dtrt-and-append-proper-prefix-when-a-release-is-stable-on-first-sru
[20:44] <rharper> blackboxsw: heheh
[20:44] <blackboxsw> we have a coupe of onetime items that we need to fixup for SRU
[20:44] <rharper> \o/
[20:45] <blackboxsw> I added your mention to that item, as I was going to manually 'handle'  that in the ubuntu/focal SRU for cloud-init
[20:45] <blackboxsw> I think it'd be better to sort the new-upstream-snapshot for that
[20:45] <blackboxsw> then future us can forget all about that pain
[20:46] <blackboxsw> ok I'll put up a minor new-upstream-snapshot to take an optional commitish param
[20:46] <blackboxsw> rharper: want me to add functionality to inspect ubuntu.csv or are you already working that
[20:49] <blackboxsw> hrm hold the phone I think new-upstream-snapshot takes a positional commitish
[20:57] <rharper> blackboxsw: not working anything at the moment;  fixing up some curtin vmtest issues pre-sru
[21:20] <blackboxsw> rharper: want to weigh in on this level of manual for ubuntu/xenial ?
[21:20] <rharper> ?
[21:20] <blackboxsw> rharper: https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/393
[21:21] <rharper> looking
[21:21] <blackboxsw> since we did a one-off new-upstream-snapshot that we didn't release, the tool doesn't handle consolidating multiple UNRELEASED changelog entries into one from two separate new-upstream-snapshots
[21:21] <blackboxsw> so I had to manually move around a couple of entries
[21:21] <blackboxsw> per steps 1-3
[21:21] <rharper> ah
[21:22] <rharper> yes, I've always worried about these
[21:22] <rharper> I think instead of writing "steps", it'd be worth showing a diff between what the new-upstream-snapshot does; and what we actually want to commit ?
[21:22] <blackboxsw> yeah I didn't really want to add specific debian/changelog content parsing logic in new-upstream-snapshot if we can avoid it
[21:22] <blackboxsw> sure that works
[21:23] <rharper> so do it once with no changes, then again with your manual steps and show the changes ...  folks can look at the delta and see what they need to change during changelog edit I think
[21:23] <rharper> and I suspect, if we can automate that combintation of un-released snapshots, it would be a good backlog item to do (it's not often but nice for tooling to handle this stuff)
[21:25] <Odd_Bloke> blackboxsw: +1 on cutting a new groovy release (unless I'm too late and you've already committed to not doing that, then don't sweat it :p)
[21:26] <blackboxsw> Odd_Bloke: cutting groovy is also easy and I'll push that now. since I have to rework ubuntu/xenial anyway a bit to show a manual diff let's do it
[21:26] <blackboxsw> PR coming Odd_Bloke
[21:28] <Odd_Bloke> falcojr: https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/392 <-- we're unblocked on the flake8 issue, thanks to powersj
[21:29] <blackboxsw> Odd_Bloke: https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/394
[21:30] <falcojr> lol, I was about to push basically the same thing
[21:31] <Odd_Bloke> blackboxsw: Approved.
[21:32] <blackboxsw> Odd_Bloke: thanks uploading
[21:32] <blackboxsw> at least our frequency of groovy uploads is healthy
[21:32] <blackboxsw> now to get SRUs healthy
[21:34] <powersj> falcojr, sorry :P
[21:34] <falcojr> haha, np
[21:35] <blackboxsw> community notice: ubuntu/groovy-proposed] cloud-init 20.2-38-g8377897b-0ubuntu1 (Accepted)
[21:35] <falcojr> over time we should fix some of those. E.g., whitespace around operators or the hanging indents
[21:35] <blackboxsw> community notice: ubuntu Groovy 20.10 has an upload representing tip of master that will show up in cloudimages in the coming days
[21:35] <powersj> agreed
[21:35] <falcojr> flake8 is a little more picky than the other tools were
[21:36] <falcojr> also, extend the max line length
[21:36]  * falcojr runs away
[21:38] <Odd_Bloke> I would like to keep to 80 lines, but I would not object to figuring out a way to blacken the codebase over time.
[21:40] <Odd_Bloke> Upstream have been a little reticent to engage in partial formatting.  It's a reasonable position to take, but it does make it hard for projects with a lot of history to move, because I don't really want `git blame` to be forever ruined by a formatting commit.
[21:42] <Odd_Bloke> Well, I guess more than a little reticent: https://github.com/psf/black/issues/134
[21:50] <blackboxsw> rharper: here's the ubuntu/xenial  SRU branch https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/395
[21:51] <blackboxsw> if that approach makes sense I'll have something comparable for bionic eoan and focal I believe
[22:00] <rharper> blackboxsw: lemme look
[22:16] <kamoser> Some lines omitted but why doesn't this work on EC2 user data? "Content-Type: text/jinja2;
[22:16] <kamoser> ## template: jinja
[22:16] <kamoser> #cloud-config
[22:16] <kamoser> packages:
[22:16] <kamoser>  - {{ v1.distro }}"
[22:16] <kamoser> Just says CI_MISSING_JINJA_VAR/distro
[22:18] <rharper> kamoser: one sec
[22:19] <rharper> kamoser: cloud-init --version ? what are you currently running there?  and Ubuntu image or Amazon Linux ?
[22:20] <kamoser> ubuntu/images/hvm-ssd/ubuntu-bionic-18.04-amd64-server-20191002 (ami-04b9e92b5572fa0d1)
[22:20] <kamoser> and /usr/bin/cloud-init 19.2-36-g059d049c-0ubuntu1~18.04.1
[22:21] <kamoser> To test it, I'm running /usr/bin/cloud-init -d init then I'm looking at the file /var/lib/cloud/instance/cloud-config.txt which is where I see the statement CI_MISSING_JINJA_VAR/distro
[22:21] <rharper> y
[22:26] <kamoser> keeps kicking me. reason is, I am just trying to debug why my user data won't work on ec2.
[22:26] <rharper> kamoser: ok, I can reproduce, that *seems* like  a bug,  you should be able to use v1.distro or distro, the original jinja commit mentions
[22:26] <rharper> Additionally, any standardized instance-data.json keys scoped below a
[22:26] <rharper>     '<v#>' key will be promoted as a top-level key for ease of reference in
[22:26] <rharper>     templates. This means that '{{ local_hostname }}' is the same as using the
[22:26] <rharper>     latest '{{ v#.local_hostname }}'.
[22:27] <rharper> try with just {{ distro }}
[22:27] <rharper> for now
[22:27] <rharper> hrm, nope; thats broken too
[22:29] <kamoser> Bummer. Should I just be using bash script to workaround? Basically what I'm trying to achieve is Ubuntu doesn't have package "A" so I was writing Jinja that said "if package is not Ubuntu" to go with my cloud-config packages list.
[22:30] <kamoser> I was hoping the package list would come out as e.g. RHEL has packages A, B but Ubuntu only has packages B. So I inserted a Jinja if statement into the middle of my cloud-config "packages" list.
[22:31] <rharper> kamoser: well, we need to fix our bug, but that won't help you for now;  you can in your shell script use fetch the distro value via /run/cloud-init/instance-data.json  ;;; use jq on it or whatever else you need
[22:33] <kamoser> No worries, will do.
[22:36] <rharper> kamoser: ah, I think on bionic, we don't have the newer keys available;
[22:36] <rharper> kamoser: this will work on a focal image, but not bionic *yet*;  blackboxsw is starting our SRU process where we bring back the newer features into the older releases, so in a few weeks this should work on bionic;
[22:42] <rharper> kamoser: and you can see the current keys available with : cloud-init query --all , and test them out with cloud-init query -f "{{ variable }}"  ;  putting in "{{ distro }}" returns exactly what you saw on bionic;  here's it working on focal, for reference  https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/Db8djv3nNc/
[22:44] <kamoser> ok awesome. great tip
[22:48] <rharper> kamoser: also, cloud-init devel render --user-data </path to your template file>  to render the whole thing
[22:49] <blackboxsw> yeah +1 kamoser SRU will get you that 'distro' jinja variable :/ sry 'bout that
[22:49] <blackboxsw> a bit delayed
[22:50] <kamoser> rharper excellent, now I can test a lot faster without startup/shutdown of the instance. No problem about the variable... only thing is, our customer specifically requested Ubuntu 18.04. But I am going to check if we can get the newer version
[22:51] <rharper> kamoser: it should be available in a few weeks;  if you *cant* wait till the SRU is done, you can try using our daily-ppa for bionic which runs cloud-init master built for bionic,  https://launchpad.net/~cloud-init-dev/+archive/ubuntu/daily
[22:52] <kamoser> Thanks!
[22:53] <blackboxsw> and kamoser you could also test using ubuntu groovy 20.10 which already has the fix
[22:53] <blackboxsw> if that ubuntu release is available for you :/
[23:45] <blackboxsw> thanks for the review rharper I've pushed ubuntu/bionic in the same light https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/396


[00:12] <happyface> anyone else experiencing screen flickering in the beta?
[01:03] <infinity> ScottK: How is that different than the situation's been for the last month? :)
[02:07] <happyface> anyone else experiencing screen flickering in the beta?
[02:28] <micahg> ScottK: have you tried build qtwebkit with -Wl,--no-keep-memory?  that worked for webkitgtk
[03:07] <infinity> micahg: Ooo, I wasn't aware of that linker flag.
[03:07] <infinity> micahg: I'm betting that would do it.
[03:08]  * infinity headdesks.
[03:09] <infinity> And the upload that updated the symbols for armel didn't add armhf at the same time.
[03:10] <infinity> That's easy enough to fix, at least.
[03:10] <infinity> ScottK: I'll try micahg's suggestion on my Panda.
[03:10] <infinity> ... after I find an SD that actually has an OS on it.
[03:56] <infinity> shadeslayer: Don't worry about qtwebkit-source on armhf, I have a testbuild going right now, and will upload in the morning, I suspect.
[03:56] <infinity> micahg: So, looking at the actual packaging for this might have been helpful, instead of people blaming toolchains and kernels.
[03:57] <infinity> micahg: My guess is that armel being built with -gstabs, and armhf being built with -g might relate (testing that theory now).
[03:57] <micahg> infinity: heh, we just made the change recently
[03:58] <infinity> micahg: Your suggestion is probably also a valid an reasonable one, given the borderline memory usage issues of all things webkit.
[03:58] <infinity> micahg: But I'm betting that "make armhf build the same way as armel" will magically fix it.
[03:58]  * infinity really needs to rgrep for armel in debian/rules across an entire lintian lab. :/
[03:58]  * micahg isn't sure what -gstabs does
[03:59] <infinity> micahg: Different debugging format.
[04:00] <infinity> Aside from being less verbose than DWARF2 (which could explain the difference in memory usage), it's also apparently causing other issues on some platforms with qtwebkit, which was why it was swapped.
[04:00] <infinity> I dunno.
[04:00] <infinity> Not my package.
[04:00] <infinity> But if this fix works, I'll be kicking myself for not just looking at debian/rules 2 months ago.
[04:02] <micahg> infinity: I did the same thing with chromium except it was something in debian/control that was the final fix
[04:02] <infinity> Just needed an s/armel/armel armhf/ ?
[04:02] <micahg> infinity: yep :)
[04:03] <infinity> Yeah, I suspect there are a lot of those left in the archive in some form or another.
[04:03] <infinity> Hence the lintian lab mention.
[04:03] <micahg> infinity: talk to broder, he might be able to help
[04:04] <bkerensa> Getting a weird error when trying to bzr branch bash
[04:04] <bkerensa> bzr: ERROR: Revision<EMAIL_ADDRESS>not present in "Graph(StackedParentsProvider(bzrlib.repository._LazyListJoin(([CachingParentsProvider(None)], []))))".
[04:04] <bkerensa> <bkerensa> "
[04:04] <infinity> Pretty.
[04:06] <bkerensa> indeed
[04:06] <bkerensa> :P
[04:06] <infinity> If at first you don't succeed, screw it and work on the source package directly? ;)
[04:31] <ScottK> micahg and infinity: thanls.
[04:35]  * infinity wonders how all those builders landed in ABORTED...
[07:33] <AnAnt> Hello, would someone sponsor: LP 946660
[11:59] <verwilst> SpamapS, hello, wrt https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-p-php54,is php 5.4 still on track for precise inclusion?
[13:40] <geser> pitti: re your comment on bug #871907: sorry for causing you trouble with this change. As it also causes problems with colorscheme I'm undoing it. Have you time to sponsor the debdiff from bug #951440?
[14:29] <mikecb> ScottK: have you tried with -no-keep-memory, --hash-size, or --reduce-memory-overhead?
[16:20] <dupondje> pitti: I have some work in progress to split up cryptsetup in a bin package. Would it be on time to get in Precise? Or to late anyway?
[16:25] <geser> dupondje: how confident are you that you don't break anything (e.g. upgrades)? as there isn't much time left to test it thoroughly
[16:32] <dupondje> geser: maby cryptsetup could provide cryptsetup-bin, and just copy the bins to a new package 'cryptsetup-bin' to make it safer ?
[16:39] <geser> dupondje: what issue are you trying to fix?
[16:40] <dupondje> geser: if you connect a crypted device to an ubuntu pc without cryptsetup, it asks a password, but can't open it, because its missing cryptsetup.
[16:41] <dupondje> installing cryptsetup as a whole is not an option, because it contains some initramfs scripts etc, which are not needed in this case
[16:41] <geser> so you plan to move the binaries into an own package and let cryptsetup depend on it?
[16:42] <dupondje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cryptsetup/+bug/343363
[16:44] <geser> sounds like it should be safe to not break existing cryptsetup installs
[16:46] <geser> dupondje: not sure about the timing, don't have enough expierence with judging such changes that late in the release cycle, luckily there is #ubuntu-release :)
[16:47] <dupondje> the critical in cryptsetup is also fixed in the next upload in debian :)
[19:14] <tiagoscd> hi
[19:16] <tiagoscd> I tried to create a package from lp:ubiquity, but when I use "debuild -us -uc" I have this error: http://paste.ubuntu.com/879353/
[19:16] <tiagoscd> Can anyone help me?
[19:20] <infinity> tiagoscd: debian/rules update
[19:23] <tiagoscd> infinity, thanks. could you tell me why I need to update the rules? (sorry, starting with devel)
[19:35] <alexbligh1> A wierd one: can I make debian/rules produce not only the normal example.deb, but a second example2.deb which contains example.deb (in /foo/bar/baz/example.deb). Or has rules stopped before the final .deb is generated?
[19:44] <infinity> alexbligh1: It's conceivably possible to wrap a deb in a deb from the same source package, but the better question is "why"?
[19:51] <alexbligh1> infinity, I have nodes that tftpboot an ubuntu distribution, and then suck various other .debs over http. I want to put those .debs themselves (which are only installed on the nodes) in a package installed on the server. I'm currently manually doing this (i.e. copying the built .debs into the source repository) which is error prone, so I already have .debs in .debs
[19:51] <alexbligh1> What I want to do is when I build the inner .deb, make an outer .deb too, and make the package on the server depend upon that.
[19:52] <alexbligh1> (I bet you wish you never asked)
[19:53] <infinity> alexbligh1: It's certainly not how I'd do it, but to each their own.  If this monstrosity is for local use, not for the archive. :P
[19:54] <alexbligh1> infinity, no, not for the archive. I should explain the nodes are diskless, and the server acts like a sort of real time repository. That might help it make more sense.
[19:54] <alexbligh1> um, boot time repository
[19:55] <infinity> alexbligh1: But the short answer is that you could just mv inner.deb into debian/outer/usr/share/outer/inner.deb between dh_builddeb -pinner and dh_buildder -pouter
[19:55] <infinity> And perhaps some tricker to remove the original deb from list.
[19:55] <alexbligh1> Ah, so dh_builddeb is actually called from rules, and that's (the -pinner bit) what makes the .deb
[19:56] <infinity> alexbligh1: Yeah, I realise what you're doing.  I'd just publish it all in one repo, however, rather than making debs contain mini repositories.
[19:58] <alexbligh1> infinity, thanks - I'll have a think
[21:18] <ScottK> mikecb: No.  I haven't tried with any of those.  Since I don't have direct access to an Ubuntu armhf box, I hope infinity will try out some of those options and see if it helps.
[21:20] <ScottK> infinity: Would you also please take a look at nihal.  The kdevelop build has been stuck at fully built for over half a day.
[21:34] <infinity> ScottK: Was the response to mikecb about qtwekbit-source?  If so, I've uploaded a package that should build fine.
[21:36] <infinity> ScottK: As for nihal, has it been stuck at that "purging chroot" step?
[21:38] <infinity> ScottK: If so, I'll have to poke people about it tomorrow, I haven't had direct access to buildds for years.
[21:51] <dupondje> slangasek: there atm ?
[21:58] <ScottK> infinity: It was and it is, so thanks on both counts.
[22:02] <infinity> ScottK: Yeah, I feel a bit dumb about qtwebkit-source.  We spent so long hunting kernel (and there was a kernel bug) and toolchain issues, that I didn't even stop to look at debian/rules and apply the s/armel/armel armhf/ fix. :P
[22:02] <ScottK> infinity: I'm glad you finally got it sorted. I didn't either, so don't feel bad.
[22:19] <apw> i think one of our builds may have gotten stuck: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/3.2.0-18.29/+build/3272981 ... i wonder if a buildd admin could check up on it
[22:20] <infinity> apw: I think there was a network hiccup that confused the crap out of a bunch of buildds.
[22:20] <infinity> apw: Can't do much about it until the relevant people are at work on Monday.
[22:21] <apw> infinity, ok ... thanks for looking ...
[22:36] <scientes> can i install systemd on ubuntu?
[22:36] <scientes> on precise
[22:36] <scientes> I want the udev device enumeration for multiseat stuff
[22:42] <Darxus> Update Manager just hung on me.  Running Oneric.  About half way through applying changes.  Details only says "/tmp/tmprAyyZx" which seems pretty wrong.
[22:42] <Darxus> That file contains a list of what the updates are.
[22:43] <Darxus> Is this some incompatability with update manager and that annoying thing that tells me the details of the upgrade?  What is that?
[22:44] <Darxus> Cancel button is greyed out.
[22:45] <Darxus> Wow, the details is actually an interactive console?  Neat.
[22:45] <infinity> Darxus: Expand it a bit, and scroll back with Shift-PgUp.
[22:46] <infinity> Darxus: If I had to guess, I'd say you have apt-listchanges installed, and it's patiently waiting for you to 'q' out of less, and say "yes" to the upgrade.
[22:46] <Darxus> It's gone, sorry.
[22:46] <infinity> Darxus: apt-listchanges and update-manager don't play well together. :/
[22:46] <Darxus> Yep, I agree.
[22:46] <Darxus> Yeah.
[22:46] <infinity> I really should look at fixing that.  My solution was just to uninstall it from GUI systems and only use it on servers.
[22:46] <Darxus> You don't think that qualifies as a bug?
[22:46] <Darxus> Heh, yeah.
[22:47] <infinity> But I swear it used to do sane things (ie: pop a GTK dialog instead of a pager in the terminal window)
[22:47] <Darxus> Heh.
[22:47] <infinity> Darxus: There's a bug open, don't recall the number.  Just that no one's made it a priority.
[22:47] <Darxus> I just uninstalled it.
[22:47] <Darxus> Okay, thanks.
[22:48] <Darxus> The bug is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt-listchanges/+bug/787802
[22:48] <infinity> Yeah.  There may also be an update-manager bug.
[22:49] <infinity> Anyhow, I might see about making time for it.  It's annoyed me for a long time.
[22:49] <infinity> But "uninstall apt-listchanges on GUI systems" is a fair workaround.
[22:49] <infinity> Since you can see changelogs in the u-m window anyway.
[22:49] <Darxus> Yeah.
[22:50] <Darxus> Honestly, that thing has caused me more grief than anything.  By making it one step easier to forget to confirm an upgrade.
[22:51] <Darxus> "update-manager used to invoke the GTK frontend of apt-listchanges"
[22:56] <infinity> Yeah.  Maybe this is the cycle where it annoys me enough to figure out why it's broken.
[23:51] <Darxus> infinity: Neat :)


[00:41] <_Sponge> Still up ?
[00:43] <_Sponge> www.FreiendsReunited.co.uk just went bust<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[00:43] <_Sponge> The creator sold it to ITV for £125 million in 2005.
[00:44] <_Sponge> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friends_Reunited
[00:44] <_Sponge> Sad to see it go.
[00:44] <_Sponge> Could it run as a semi-offline App in Ubuntu ?
[00:44] <_Sponge> Probably worth £10 grand or so.
[00:46]  * _Sponge wonders how messaging would work with six-weekly updates ?
[00:47] <_Sponge> Probably so few people using it that you'd run the whole messaging service on about 20MegaBytes.
[06:34] <mapps> morning
[06:35] <mapps> kinda sad, wonder why it failed
[06:35] <mapps> when facebook became so big
[06:38] <knightwise> hey mapps
[06:40] <mapps> sup mate
[07:07] <knightwise> doin ok ;  how bout you ?
[07:14] <mapps> not bad:)
[08:16] <MooDoo> howdy all
[08:48] <knightwise> heya MooDoo
[08:48] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[09:06] <davmor2> Morning all
[09:07] <bittin-> morning
[09:18] <MooDoo> morning
[09:41] <knightwise> hey MooDoo
[09:43] <JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Wednesday, and happy Chocolate Cake Day! 🙌 🎂
[09:45] <davmor2> JamesTait: well this was easy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQCQnARnKbc
[09:49] <JamesTait> davmor2, that's just chocolate though. Where's my cake?
[09:51] <davmor2> JamesTait: the cake is a lie but if you must https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOMSZQ7RacQ
[09:54] <davmor2> JamesTait: or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMgU5B2TZIA
[09:57] <JamesTait> davmor2, I think my ears are bleeding.
[09:58] <davmor2> JamesTait: Hey you wanted cake I told you the cake was a lie :)
[10:36] <foobarry> can i put /quote PASS in my irssi config?
[10:37] <foobarry> to automatically login and pass
[10:38] <Myrtti> for freenode?
[10:38] <Myrtti> or in general?
[10:39] <foobarry> for each irc net , but irc.net in particular because i keep getting disconnected and losing connection
[10:39] <foobarry> and it isn't logging me back in automagically
[10:39] <Myrtti> If freenode, check http://freenode.net/sasl/
[10:39] <Myrtti> ircnet has a password? that's new
[10:40] <foobarry> oh, my bouncer does
[10:40] <foobarry> thanks
[10:41] <Myrtti> also /help network
[11:46] <\s__> http://paste.ubuntu.com/14678503/ HUH?
[11:46] <\s__> why is <IP_ADDRESS> down? (it isnt)
[11:47] <directhex> it's not
[11:47] <\s__> yeah but it says it is
[11:47] <directhex> it says 404
[11:47] <\s__> 404 means not found
[11:48] <directhex> yes.
[11:48] <directhex> because utopic (14.10) isn't available on the upgrade server any more
[11:48] <\s__> 404 not found thus down but when i go there it isnt
[11:48] <\s__> right?
[11:49] <\s__> so i have to start over in april?
[11:49] <directhex> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EOLUpgrades
[11:49] <\s__> thats stupid
[11:50] <\s__> urgh
[11:50] <directhex> you can upgrade from LTS to LTS (so you can upgrade from 14.04 to 16.04, in april), or you need to do some manual hackery to do 14.04->14.10->15.04->15.10 to do short-term upgrades after some of those short-term releases are EOL
[11:50] <\s__> anual hackery to do 14.04->14.10->15.04->15.10 is what i was trying to do
[11:52] <\s__> im annoyed; im going to go shoot some pharmacuticals (im on cancer drugs.. i may have cancer but heh im still humorous)
[11:55] <Myrtti> gee, thanks.  I also hate having a student loan. Currently I hate the former more than the latter.
[15:36] <Seeker`> I think I've still got ~4k left
[15:36] <diddledan> davmor2: +1 on the sweet like chocolate choice
[15:36] <davmor2> diddledan: hahaha :)
[15:37] <davmor2> Laney: Congratulation dude :)  How long did that take?
[15:37] <Laney> davmor2: I graduated in 2008 :P
[15:37] <Laney> but didn't actually start repaying for a few years after that
[15:38] <Seeker`> I graduated in 2008 too. And started repaying that year. Not fair :P
[15:38] <davmor2> Laney: that's not too shabby at all then dude well done, what you gonna put that money toward now your house and get your mortgage paid off faster?
[15:38] <Laney> ummm
[15:39] <Laney> got some "home improvements" to get done
[15:39] <davmor2> Laney: oh well that's an investment too :)
[15:39] <Laney> save up for that canal boat
[15:39] <Laney> ohhh yeahhhh
[15:39]  * Laney is going to retire by 40
[15:39] <diddledan> :-o
[15:40] <Laney> hahaha as if
[15:40] <Laney> good to have dreams though, right?
[15:40] <diddledan> I don't think I'll ever be able to retire :-p
[15:40] <davmor2> Laney: no you won't you love the pain of software too much ;)
[15:40] <diddledan> \o/ soft wares!
[15:40] <diddledan> or should that be warez?
[15:41]  * diddledan shows his 90s illegal download knowledge
[15:42] <Laney> davmor2: then I'll cruise around the waterways of the UK fixing the bugs that bother *me* and not ones which QA engineers dig up :P
[15:42] <davmor2> Laney: pfff you make it sound like I have to look :P
[15:44] <Laney> got to keep each other in work eh
[15:44] <Laney> (for now...)
[15:46] <diddledan> davmor2: do you attract bugs like daftykins does with hard disks?
[15:46] <diddledan> speaky of whom.. where's dafty?
[15:47] <davmor2> diddledan: No, no I write the bugs and destroy developers hopes and dreams
[15:48] <diddledan> \o/
[16:26] <mapps> hi all
[16:42] <davmor2> mapps: hello
[16:57] <mapps> hi:D
[19:09] <\sv> freenode.net is down
[19:09] <\sv> its down
[19:09] <\sv> down i tell you
[19:11] <zmoylan-pi> ♪ the net came back, the very next day... ♫
[19:43] <davmor2> gotta love that the PM is blaming Labour for Google not paying it's taxes for 5 years now who have been in power again for the last 5 years.........
[20:20] <foobarry> google keyboard sucks
[20:20] <foobarry> been using it and putting up for too long. gotta see if swype is still around


[19:17] <ibeardslee> morning
[19:44] <snail> morning
[19:57] <olly> morning
[20:21] <ajmitch> morning
[20:43] <ibeardslee> http://wind8apps.com/free-ubuntu-cd-munich-windows-xp/
[20:46]  * ajmitch needs to upgrade to 12.04 (or newer)
[20:46] <ajmitch> still have a desktop here on 10.04, mostly use gnome-terminal though :)
[20:47] <ibeardslee> we have people stuck on unsupported ubuntu versions .. just not upgraded when ubuntu had been telling them they need to
[20:48] <ajmitch> yeah, 10.04 desktop support ran out awhile ago, 12.04 should last awhile
[20:49]  * mwhudson wonders about upgrading to saucy
[20:49] <mwhudson> morning
[20:49] <ajmitch> I've fallen behind on even upgrading my home computer lately
[20:51] <olly> ibeardslee: you read some strange sites
[20:51] <ibeardslee> olly: was in a G+ feed
[20:51] <olly> ibeardslee: you read some strange sites
[20:53] <ibeardslee> heh
[21:21] <thumper> morning


[02:55] <smartboyhw> OvenWerk1, you have made the longest debian/changelog I have ever seen with ubuntustudio-menu (0.16)
[03:50] <knome> just a heads up for all the US team, we're about to pull in xfce4-settings from 4.11
[03:51] <knome> zequence, OvenWerk1, holstein: ^
[03:51] <knome> (smartboyhow ack'd in #xubuntu-devel, so we're going ahead)
[03:53] <smartboyhw> ^ I don't think it can be very worse to pull in^
[03:54] <knome> the new modules are xkb and display (which is why xubuntu mostly wants it in)
[04:14] <OvenWerk1> smartboyhw: Ya, there is a lot there, normally there are more uploads in the middle.
[04:14] <OvenWerk1> I guess I was on a roll :)
[05:46] <zequence> smartboyhw: You probably haven't seen kernel changelogs then
[05:47] <zequence> and the one that probably beats the record is the lowlatency that was updated last year, after not having been updated for many months
[05:47] <zequence> that changelog was like a small book
[07:03] <smartboyhw> zequence, I know kernel changelogs are long
[07:03] <smartboyhw> But, for a normal package, OvenWerk1's one is REAL long
[07:13] <cub> Good morning zequence-work! Nice updates on the social media about the shop.
[07:13] <cub> Just a note, on http://ubuntustudio.org/2013/08/ubuntu-studio-merchandise/ is ttoine's nick mispelled. "toine"
[07:14] <smartboyhw> cub, HEH
[07:14]  * smartboyhw changes
[07:14] <cub> aha so you have access too smartboyhw ?
[07:14] <smartboyhw> cub, for content yes
[07:14] <smartboyhw> For themes, NO
[07:14] <cub> great
[07:15] <smartboyhw> cub, so, what did the guys make out from the Community Roundtable
[07:16] <smartboyhw> cub, updated
[07:16] <cub> tl;dr : google hangout is the best alternative at the moment. It is sad that they put the age thing in there but as a comprimise everyone can watch the live session and participate through IRC, even though you can't be on camera yourself.
[07:16] <cub> it was quite good, you should listen to it.
[07:17] <cub> the alternatives as of today is either too crappy or too expensive, but they will keep a lookout for better apps ongoing
[07:18] <zequence-work> cub: Morning :)
[07:19] <smartboyhw> zequence-work: See my explanation of why OvenWerk1's changelog is long (excluding kernels)
[07:19] <smartboyhw> :P
[07:23]  * cub is reading the irc logs
[07:23] <cub> Are we going to run xfce 4.11 as well now that Xubuntu have decided to include it for 13.10?
[07:23] <knome> wrong.
[07:23] <cub> hmm or perhaps it was only the xfce4-settings
[07:23] <knome> we're including a part of it
[07:23] <smartboyhw> cub, xfce4-settings that is
[07:23] <cub> right
[07:23] <knome> and yes, that will affect you
[07:23] <cub> I read it again. :)
[07:24] <knome> we will also upload stuff that enables you to run gtk3 indicators on gtk2 panel, so that too
[07:24] <knome> (that'll actually bring some of the lost functionality back)
[07:24] <cub> Will it? Because when I discussed something else with OvenWerk1 I understood it as we didn't pull exactly from xubuntu?
[07:25] <cub> I could have got it wrong though.
[07:25] <knome> i would argue that it will affect you as well, but it's possible it doesn't
[07:25] <knome> in that case you'd have to maintain the gtk2 indicators yourself though...
[07:25] <cub> yeah I have no idea, I'm the new guy. ;)
[07:26] <knome> heh
[07:26] <knome> oops, wrong chan
[07:26] <smartboyhw> knome, why is that wrong chan?
[07:26] <cub> it made sense to me. :D
[07:26] <knome> smartboyhw, "heh" was meant to go to a different channel.
[07:26] <smartboyhw> knome, ah
[07:27] <smartboyhw> knome, heh for you:P
[07:27] <cub> Is there one-page-to-rule-them-all that show all the dates for beta1/2/etc, RC, document freeze and so on?
[07:28] <smartboyhw> cub, yes, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SaucySalamander/ReleaseSchedule
[07:28] <smartboyhw> Actually, we have our own version
[07:28] <knome> yes, that's the "type 're' in firefox location bar and hit enter"
[07:28] <smartboyhw> with better explanations of everything
[07:29] <cub> smartboyhw, thanks, I knew I had seen it somewhere. the search function on the wiki doesn't like me.
[07:29] <smartboyhw> cub, heh
[07:30] <knome> smartboyhw, wouldn't say "better", just more verbose and more US-centric
[07:30] <smartboyhw> knome, yeah
[07:36] <cub> This ubuntu single-sign-on is more like sign-on-twenty-times-on-the-same-page
[07:37] <smartboyhw> cub, LOL
[07:37] <cub> or every time you click to the next page.
[07:38]  * cub needs more coffee.
[08:00] <smartboyhw> ttoine, so, the announcement was out!
[08:24] <ttoine> smartboyhw, ah ? on the website ?
[08:24] <smartboyhw> ttoine, yep
[08:24] <ttoine> great !
[08:28] <smartboyhw> cub, so, what do you want to learn today?
[08:32] <smartboyhw> zequence-work: Here's a suggestion to introduce our team: Make everyone wear the Ubuntu Studio and take a photo, then photoshop them together:P
[08:34] <knome> yes, i support the photoshopping part
[08:35] <smartboyhw> knome, LOL
[08:35] <smartboyhw> (Of course, we will use free software rather than photoshop)
[08:35] <knome> i'd also like to see smartboyhw "wearing ubuntu studio"
[08:36] <smartboyhw> knome, if you give me your project's some of the 250 Euros to buy it;P
[08:36] <cub> smartboyhw, I already learnt where to find the release calendars
[08:36] <smartboyhw> cub, eh, OK, that's a bit trivialP
[08:36] <smartboyhw> :P
[08:36]  * knome slaps smartboyhw
[08:36] <cub> And I read the release processes on my way to work.
[08:36] <knome> stop being greedy :P
[08:36] <knome> also, you missed my point
[08:36] <smartboyhw> knome, sorry, we Chinese are VERY greedy:P
[08:36] <smartboyhw> knome, why?
[08:37] <knome> because i said i'd like to see you *wear* *ubuntu studio* (the abstract product, not a shirt, because you didn't specify people should wear a shirt, but "the ubuntu studio"...)
[08:38] <cub> smartboyhw, I also hope to learn how to make gnome-orca 3.9 work in Saucy with xfce 4.10.
[08:38] <smartboyhw> knome, my fault:P
[08:39] <smartboyhw> the Ubuntu studio -> the Ubuntu Studio T-shirts
[08:39] <smartboyhw> cub, it will be difficult, since GNOME is not as the same base as Xfce:)
[08:39] <knome> smartboyhw, i know.. that's why i clinged to it :P
[08:39] <smartboyhw> knome, OK, I'm not expecting a debate happening
[08:39] <knome> me neither
[08:40] <cub> Yes, it's a bit tricky but Xfce release notes said to include more accessibility and people on Arch have got it working.
[08:40] <smartboyhw> LOL
[08:40] <smartboyhw> cub, well, copy the work from Arch!?
[08:40] <cub> though on previous versions of orca
[08:40] <smartboyhw> cub, ok
[08:41] <cub> yup, I have two different walkthroughs on how it was done on Arch with xfce. hopefully I get it to work in my US
[08:41] <cub> After that I need to be able to replicate those steps on the live session, with my eyes closed .....
[08:41] <smartboyhw> cub, ah, you should come to Dialogue in the Dark:P
[08:42] <cub> the what now? :D
[08:42] <smartboyhw> That's a place to make normal people experience blindness
[08:42] <smartboyhw> How blind people live
[08:42] <cub> ah right. There is, or was, a restaurant like that in Stockholm
[08:42] <smartboyhw> cub, oh
[08:43] <smartboyhw> cub, http://www.dialogue-in-the-dark.hk/web/?lang=en
[08:43] <cub> then when I started to work at the centre for visually impaired we had to go blindfolded för half a day as part of the introduction to the work place. :P
[08:43] <smartboyhw> cub, oh
[08:44] <knome> you got to remember that "visually impaired" doesn't imply "blind" though
[08:44] <smartboyhw> For us, it's to make us learn how to communicate with blind people (since we have blind people in our class last year)
[08:44] <cub> I know, that's why I try to say and write visually impaired instead of blind.
[08:45] <smartboyhw> cub, well, for us it's OK to do visually impaired = blind
[08:46] <smartboyhw> In formal situations I will be using the first option
[08:46] <smartboyhw> But as knome said, this is smalltalk:P
[08:46] <cub> but small talk that is logged on the internet. So I stay with VI.
[08:47] <smartboyhw> cub, eh
[08:47] <knome> visually impaired is far from blind, so one could argue about that...
[08:47] <cub> well no
[08:47] <cub> visually impaired can be a quite wide range from "normal" sight to blind
[08:48] <smartboyhw> yep
[08:49]  * cub found that the Dinner in the Dark is still open in Stockholm
[08:49] <smartboyhw> cub, oh
[08:49] <smartboyhw> Heh, DiD just started a Dinner in the Dark project
[08:49] <smartboyhw> http://www.dialogue-in-the-dark.hk/web/subpage.php?mid=22
[08:51] <cub> Nice. My keyboard stuck when pressing ctrl+t and opened like 1024 new tabs in chromium
[08:52] <smartboyhw> cub, huh
[08:52] <zequence-work> smartboyhw: Yes, it would be nice to have more pictures of our team members, and with t-shirts on
[08:53] <smartboyhw> cub, so, can you picture yourself wearing the shirt? ttoine ^
[08:54] <cub> I already have.
[08:55] <cub> but I looked stupid.
[08:55] <cub> maybe that's just my look.
[08:56] <smartboyhw> cub, well, just show it to us (if you permit)
[08:59] <cub> I didn't have a photographer like zequence-work , so grainy iphone in the mirror shot
[08:59] <smartboyhw> cub, you mean, you don't even have a camera? :O
[08:59] <cub> yes, but I seldom use it anymore
[09:00] <smartboyhw> cub, ok
[09:03] <cub> http://sjolund.se/pix/cub_us_shirt.jpg
[09:04] <smartboyhw> cub, hopefully we can get rid of that iPhone:P
[09:04] <cub> haha I can take a new picture if we are going to do a team picture
[09:04] <smartboyhw> If not people will think: WHAT!? Why does a open-source contributor use fully proprietary phones?:P
[09:04] <cub> that image is quite compressed
[09:05] <cub> oh easy, my propreitary work makes me!
[09:05] <cub> I'm using a macbook as well
[09:05] <smartboyhw> ......
[09:06] <cub> I want a new pc to run linux again, but this one has to break before I get a new one.
[09:07] <cub> and they are quite sturdy, those macbooks...
[09:15] <ttoine> smartboyhw, I will order a t-shirt next week
[09:15] <smartboyhw> ttoine, sure
[09:15] <ttoine> I am waiting for my pay
[09:58] <cub> Hbey OvenWerk1 congrats! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/CoreTeamPage
[09:59] <smartboyhw> cub, well OvenWerk1 is the undisputable option
[09:59]  * smartboyhw is expecting OvenWerk1 to take over zequence-work's position when zequence-work steps down one day (that will have to wait until at least 14.04)
[10:00] <smartboyhw> :P
[10:01] <smartboyhw> zequence-work, BTW why does the LP link point to the kernel team link!?
[10:01] <smartboyhw> I mean, in the page...
[10:02]  * smartboyhw fixes that
[10:04] <smartboyhw> done
[10:05] <smartboyhw> OvenWerk1, welcome to the throne
[10:05] <smartboyhw> ALL HAIL OvenWerk1 and zequence-work !
[10:05] <smartboyhw> LOL
[10:20] <zequence-work> cub: That's a custom color, is it not? Not one of the default ones we've done
[10:20] <zequence-work> the picture of your t-shirt that is
[10:24] <cub> zequence-work, yeah that's the dark grey shirt
[10:25] <cub> If we are to do a team pic, I will take a new picture with proper camera and wearing my white default shirt. :)
[10:25] <smartboyhw> Are we?
[10:25]  * smartboyhw doesn't have any money to do so
[10:26] <cub> we can add the shirt to another photo of you smartboyhw ? ;)
[10:26] <zequence-work> We should sponsor smartboyhw
[10:26] <smartboyhw> zequence-work: It will be great:P
[10:29] <DarkEra> good morning/afternoon
[10:29] <cub> zequence-work, I'm setting up a plan for myself on what to do until 13.10 launch. Since I have limited time (don't we all) I'm figuring out so I focus on the best spots. So, what would be the best parts to focus on?
[10:30] <cub> Accessibility is already on my table. But other than that I'm not sure whether to focus on testing, workflows, copyright or updating documentation.
[10:33]  * cub needs to grac lunch before the next work meeting
[10:49] <smartboyhw> zequence, I will work on these 2 things for 14.04: 1. linux-rt (I am still waiting for you on how to fix the build error) and 2. offline doc (I will be gaining experience through my Season of KDE project about doc)
[10:55] <smartboyhw> cub, suggestion: Workflows
[10:57] <smartboyhw> cub, we have been talking about workflows for a long time, but we still can't manage to make it work
[11:01] <smartboyhw> OvenWerk1, HOLY CHRIST YOUR MENU IS AWESOME
[11:05] <smartboyhw> (EVEN IN KDE)
[11:05] <smartboyhw> THANK YOU OvenWerk1 AND MISH
[11:06] <smartboyhw> ^ OK, too maniac, but it's true
[12:05] <smartboyhw> zequence-work: <smartboyhw> zequence, I will work on these 2 things for 14.04: 1. linux-rt (I am still waiting for you on how to fix the build error) and 2. offline doc (I will be gaining experience through my Season of KDE project about doc)
[12:05] <zequence-work> smartboyhw: Was just reading the logs :). That sounds great
[12:06] <smartboyhw> zequence-work, um, but can you try to see why linux-rt fails?
[12:06] <zequence-work> cub: I'd really like to see someone handling the package selection for our workflows
[12:06] <smartboyhw> I still can't understand the reason why the control gets overwrittem
[12:06] <smartboyhw> *overwritten
[12:07] <zequence-work> cub: That's something that puts you close to users. And, let's you get into the system of planning, code maintaining etc, without things getting too technical
[12:07] <zequence-work> cub: And let's not forget documentation
[12:08] <zequence-work> smartboyhw: I can't promise when I have time to look at that, but it won't be a priority for me for a little while at least
[12:08] <smartboyhw> zequence-work, OK
[12:08] <smartboyhw> zequence-work, now, where did the sponsorship discussion go?:P
[12:08] <zequence-work> smartboyhw: We should fix it fairly quickly in the dev cycle, so we have good time to argue for getting the kernel in and find out how we maintain it
[12:09] <zequence-work> SRUs for it will be different than for generic
[12:09] <smartboyhw> zequence-work, it would mean very different maintenance
[12:11] <cub> zequence-work, package selection for the workflows, that ties in to the discussion we had waaay back about the use cases? Like: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Workflows/Graphics
[12:12] <smartboyhw> cub, yep
[12:12] <smartboyhw> zequence-work: I suggest that if you are going to sponsor my T-shirt, do it for ttoine too
[12:12] <smartboyhw> (And also, ask ScottL)
[12:15] <ttoine> smartboyhw, I can pay for my t-shirt, it is my birthday soon ;-)
[12:15] <zequence-work> :D
[12:15] <smartboyhw> ttoine, :D
[12:16]  * smartboyhw thinks we should gift a birthday gift to ttoine
[12:16] <ttoine> I think I will order a shirt and the mug
[12:16] <smartboyhw> An Ubuntu Studio T-shirt!
[12:16] <zequence-work> The mug is awesome
[12:16] <zequence-work> Such a nice feeling drinking coffee
[12:17] <zequence-work> But, the t-shirts are beautiful of course.
[12:17] <zequence-work> I find that people stop and look at it
[12:17] <zequence-work> It's a powerful symbol
[12:18] <cub> yes the mug is sweet. It dings easy though so be careful!
[12:19]  * cub has already cracked his mug.
[12:19] <cub> or chipped rather than cracked.
[12:19]  * zequence-work kicks cub
[12:19] <cub> hey I got a new one in the mail anyway since the print was off! :D
[12:19] <zequence-work> Just means it's already well used
[12:19] <smartboyhw> cub, uh hum
[12:19] <smartboyhw> You can break the mug that early?
[12:20] <cub> yes. I was about to bring new coffe and accidently dented it against a hard table.
[12:21] <cub> the quality on the shirts are really nice. I also like the environmental thinking around it.
[12:22] <ttoine> cub, yes, thats' why I selected this fabric quality
[12:22] <ttoine> cub, what colour did you choose ?
[12:22] <cub> one white with blue print and one dark grey with all white print
[12:23] <cub> the dark grey is quite greenish, but looks nice
[12:24] <cub> In case you missed it: <cub> zequence-work, package selection for the workflows, that ties in to the discussion we had waaay back about the use cases? Like: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Workflows/Graphics
[12:28] <ttoine> cub, photo !!!!!
[12:29] <cub> http://sjolund.se/pix/cub_us_shirt.jpg
[13:00] <zequence-work> cub: The whole workflow bit is something that needs some love. We need some sort of structure for it, and documentation of course
[13:01] <zequence-work> Scott, the previous project lead was very eager to develope that part. Myself, I've been mostly worried about low level stuff for now - not prioritizing that until later
[13:01] <cub> Ok, I'll them up as my two focus areas.
[13:01] <cub> +put
[13:01] <zequence-work> At the end of all of our work, the workflows is the crown of all of our work
[13:01] <zequence-work> So, not a bad thing to work on
[13:01] <smartboyhw> Very useful indeed
[13:01] <cub> no it looks like great fun.
[13:02] <cub> quite a big tree to overlook though. :P
[13:02] <smartboyhw> zequence-work: You know why I want to work on offline docs? Cause I get to copy from Xubuntu ones:P
[13:02] <zequence-work> cub: I think the first problem is just finding out a system for package selection. How do we define what should be included, and what not?
[13:03] <cub> I was just writing that as a question..haha
[13:03] <zequence-work> cub: Like, if we have Qtractor, do we need Rosegarden?
[13:03] <zequence-work> cub: Currently, we only provide one application for every use case
[13:03] <cub> Not really?
[13:03] <zequence-work> Some applications can do multiple things
[13:04] <cub> yeah some overlap
[13:04] <zequence-work> Ardour is chosen for audio work, but doesn't do midi
[13:04] <zequence-work> And that is why we have qtractor
[13:04] <zequence-work> But not Muse or Rosegarden
[13:04] <zequence-work> We have one audio editor, which is Audacity.
[13:04] <zequence-work> Anyway
[13:05] <cub> LMMS does midi as well no?
[13:05]  * cub don't do midi.
[13:05] <zequence-work> LMMS is a noob tool. That's why it's included
[13:05] <zequence-work> It's an all in one
[13:05] <zequence-work> With instruments and everything
[13:05] <cub> I'll make sure not to mention "noob tool" in the documentation though. ;)
[13:06] <zequence-work> Not only for noobs. But, let's say like this. It has builtin instruments, so you could use it just for that
[13:06]  * smartboyhw starts work on offline docs
[13:06] <zequence-work> And that makes it unique
[13:06] <zequence-work> So, let's say we only choose one application for every use case. Which one should we choose? By popularity, right?
[13:07] <zequence-work> cub: These are the questions I'd solve at first. And work out a system based on it
[13:07] <zequence-work> Then start mapping out usecases and stuff
[13:07] <cub> makes sense
[13:07] <zequence-work> Just researching applications will probably make new usecases surface that you weren't aware even existed
[13:08] <zequence-work> That also needs to be done. Just going through all the stuff that is in the repos, for multimedia content creation
[13:08] <cub> yup
[13:08] <zequence-work> At the end of all that, it would be nice to offer some sort of simple tools for supplying example workflows to user
[13:09] <zequence-work> At least in documentation
[13:09] <zequence-work> Like, for recording, mixing, etc
[13:09] <cub> which in turn would make a great list for doing video tutorials.
[13:09] <zequence-work> There are also software tools for that
[13:09] <zequence-work> Yes
[13:10] <zequence-work> ladish is a session manager, which could be used to supply workflows for users. Templates for: multi-track recording, mastering, etc
[13:10] <cub> yeah I've been meaning to look into that for my own good anyhow
[13:10] <zequence-work> We could script a simple tool to start these workflows.
[13:10] <zequence-work> But that comes last
[13:11] <zequence-work> cub: So, that's all I can think of. If you want to work on it, it's yours.
[13:11] <zequence-work> I'll always be in the background with ideas and feedback, as will anyone else interested, but I'm not going to tell you how to do it, or what to do
[13:12] <zequence-work> unless your work really sucks :P
[13:12] <zequence-work> but, I'm sure it won't
[13:19] <zequence-work> smartboyhw: It would be great to include that :)
[13:19] <smartboyhw> zequence-work: Well, it's just editing Xubuntu's work, plus our workflows
[13:20] <smartboyhw> So, it's easier
[13:23] <cub> zequence-work, will do. I'll focus on getting Orca to work and the workflows.
[13:24] <cub> part from the iso-testing I imagine will start when the beta 1 is released
[13:29] <smartboyhw> Uh hum, I need a Ubuntu Studio icon with a welcome next to it
[13:29] <smartboyhw> zequence-work, ^ think you can make it yourself or do I have to ping madeinkobaia?
[13:30] <smartboyhw> Guess I have to get madeinkobaia then
[13:31] <smartboyhw> There are many pics
[13:32] <OvenWerk1> cub: nice shirt.
[13:34] <smartboyhw> OvenWerk1, you got one?
[13:35] <cub> OvenWerk1, thanks! I ordered it myself.
[13:36] <smartboyhw> zequence-work, I wonder if it would be possible for us to put in the documentation for 13.10
[13:37] <cub> that would mean it has to be there today right? :D
[13:37] <smartboyhw> cub, NO
[13:37] <cub> or until the doc-freeze?
[13:37] <smartboyhw> DocumenationStringFreeze is another thing, until doc freeze.
[13:37] <smartboyhw> We will have to apply for FFe in our seeds.
[13:37] <smartboyhw> Let me try...
[13:37] <smartboyhw> (I mean, complete it)
[13:44] <OvenWerk1> smartboyhw: I think we should start by including xubuntu's docs. At least as documentation for xfce.
[13:45] <smartboyhw> OvenWerk1, right
[13:45] <smartboyhw> We need to do that TODAY
[13:45] <smartboyhw> If not, FFe.
[13:46] <OvenWerk1> if we alter the seeds today, tomorrows ISO (maybe even todays will have it in.
[13:48] <OvenWerk1> The desktop meta would get changed whenever, but ISO runs off the seeds and the meta is not really meant for installing separate anyway.
[13:48] <smartboyhw> OvenWerk1, we need to tell micahg (after the seed change) to at least update the meta
[13:48] <OvenWerk1> He gets notified automatically
[13:49] <OvenWerk1> he is subscribed to it
[13:49] <OvenWerk1> If you have time find out what package(s) are needed.
[13:50] <smartboyhw> ttoine, question: When was the first release of Ubuntu Studio released?
[13:50] <smartboyhw> I mean, officially as an derivative
[13:50]  * OvenWerk1 is wandering away for a while...
[13:50] <smartboyhw> OvenWerk1, xubuntu-docs...
[13:50] <smartboyhw> That's what we need only
[13:52] <cub> smartboyhw, 7.04 I would say was the first official release. http://oktyabr.wordpress.com/2007/01/27/ubuntu-studio-an-interview-with-project-manager-cory-kontros/
[13:52] <smartboyhw> cub, thanks
[13:54] <cub> but ttoine and holstein were there in the beginning, no? They should know.
[13:55] <smartboyhw> cub, maybe astraljava too
[13:55] <smartboyhw> The founder is ttoine though
[13:57] <zequence-work> I personally don't think there's any hurry to include it for this release
[13:58] <zequence-work> Just do the work and when it's done, include it
[13:58] <zequence-work> About the docs, that is
[13:59] <smartboyhw> zequence-work, it would be great if I can include it in this release. I will give it to you guys for review, of course;)
[14:00] <zequence-work> Why would it be great?
[14:00] <zequence-work> It's only supported for nine months
[14:01] <zequence-work> It's not bad to include it, not saying that
[14:01] <smartboyhw> zequence-work, I want to get feedback from users themselves
[14:06] <zequence-work> You mean, you want Xubuntu to get feedback from users? IO'
[14:07] <zequence-work> I'm taking this is XFCE documentation with a bit of Ubuntu in it
[14:07] <smartboyhw> zequence-work: No, I'm taking this is Xubuntu documentation with a bit of Ubuntu Studio applications and workflows in it
[14:08] <smartboyhw> The most important part is the second part (our applications)
[14:09] <zequence-work> We don't have Ubuntu Studio documentation of that kind
[14:09] <smartboyhw> zequence-work: Erm, that doesn't mean I can't write that part
[14:10] <zequence-work> smartboyhw: Start with the user guide in the wiki, in that case
[14:10] <zequence-work> smartboyhw: That's our documentation
[14:10] <smartboyhw> zequence-work, that's wha I'm doing:)
[14:10] <zequence-work> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio/UserGuide
[14:11] <zequence-work> You can easily replace any non multimedia specific stuff with how Xubuntud does it
[14:12] <smartboyhw> zequence-work: Yep, thanks:)
[14:17] <smartboyhw> zequence-work, uh hum, we have NOTHING in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Documentation ?
[14:18] <zequence-work> Seems so
[14:18] <zequence-work> What were you looking for?
[14:18] <smartboyhw> zequence-work, :(
[14:19] <zequence-work> ttoine: Any way we can remove some of the color choices in the web shop? There are some colors that just don't mix
[14:20] <cub> blue print on red shirt is awesome, not matter what you say. ;)
[14:20] <zequence-work> blue on blue is not that great though
[14:20] <zequence-work> and there are many combinations where something is barely visible
[14:21] <zequence-work> black text on black background doesn't work that well for instance
[14:22] <smartboyhw> zequence-work, I thought you would have written up something on that page (since before you took over as project lead you are doc lead)
[14:22] <zequence-work> smartboyhw: So, me writing all the docs is not enough for you?
[14:23] <smartboyhw> zequence-work: I thought you would write about how to teach people to write the docs:P
[14:23] <zequence-work> Some year in the future, when I have time, and decided how docs should be written, perhaps
[14:24] <smartboyhw> ok...
[14:24] <zequence-work> When I write the docs, I'm also figuring out how to write them at the same time
[14:25] <zequence-work> The stuff that the doc team needs to worry about is: where are all our docs and when should we edit them?
[14:25] <zequence-work> That would be things to add to that page
[14:26]  * smartboyhw will tell everybody where the offline docs are after he communicated with ~ubuntu-doc-committers
[14:26] <smartboyhw> Since it seems that Xubuntu offline docs are held there
[14:26] <smartboyhw> So am asking if I can commit too..
[14:28] <smartboyhw> zequence-work, so, are we adding xubuntu-docs to our package?
[14:28] <smartboyhw> *seeds + meta
[14:28] <smartboyhw> As OvenWerk1 suggests
[14:29] <smartboyhw> We need to do that a.s.a.p. (before FF)
[14:29] <zequence-work> smartboyhw: I don't know what is in that package
[14:29] <zequence-work> why should we add it?
[14:30] <zequence-work> What will we get by adding it?
[14:30] <smartboyhw> zequence-work, at least, basic guides on how to use Xfce desktop
[14:30] <smartboyhw> (I think)
[14:30] <smartboyhw> knome, I think you'd better explain a bit further^^
[14:30] <zequence-work> Someone should install it and see how we can make use of it.
[14:36] <smartboyhw> zequence-work: xubuntu-docs is Xubuntu documentation, to make it simple. It introduces of what desktop applications are there, how to go through the settings, how to do adminstrative tasks, set up scanning, internet networks, managing applications, etc.
[14:37] <smartboyhw> It's like, ubuntustudio-docs not yet optimized for Studio (but for Xubuntu and Xfce)
[14:42] <ttoine> zequence-work, I didn't find a way to do it atm
[14:43] <ttoine> But, I found the way to suggest the default colour
[14:43]  * smartboyhw wants ttoine to answer when is Ubuntu Studio first released:)
[14:43] <ttoine> smartboyhw, in the past ?
[14:44] <ttoine> when was ?
[14:44] <smartboyhw> ttoine, yep
[14:44] <smartboyhw> Official
[14:44] <ttoine> wow...october 2006 or april 2007, something like that, I would say
[14:44] <ttoine> I was invited at november 2006 UDS for I was cofounder of US
[14:45] <smartboyhw> ttoine, can you actually remember when was it first released? I mean, with an image available on Ubuntu server
[14:46] <ttoine> I can't remember
[14:47] <ttoine> But I am pretty sure that if you look at the first versions of the wiki page, you will find some anouncement or something like that
[14:49] <smartboyhw> -.-
[14:49] <ttoine> smartboyhw, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_Studio
[14:49] <ttoine> may 2007
[14:49] <smartboyhw> ttoine, got it
[14:50] <smartboyhw> -.- May => 7.04!?
[14:57] <cub> smartboyhw, which it said in the article I gave you. The interview with Cory.
[14:57] <smartboyhw> cub, weird:p
[14:58] <cub> 32 bit 7.04, 64 bit 7.10.
[15:52] <nickg_> hey ive got a bunch of free time over the next couple weeks, if i can get a list of things to be done on the website, i can work via us.nickgermaine.ca to make some changes, then provide the code to someone to enter into the actual website
[16:03] <zequence> hi nickg_
[16:03] <nickg_> hey
[16:03] <nickg_> ive been super busy lately
[16:04] <smartboyhw> Hello nickg_
[16:05] <nickg_> hey
[16:09] <zequence> nickg_: I think the most work will be needed in time for 14.04. But, we haven't been working on the artwork yet
[16:09] <nickg_> ok
[16:09] <nickg_> just let me know what is needed, and ill do it up
[16:10] <zequence> nickg_: So, for now, the only thing I can think of is fixing the grey text, which you already worked on
[16:11] <nickg_> yah hah i was thinking about that last night actually, there was a US post on facebook about merch, so i went to the site, and saw the date and etc of the post and it is awful light
[16:12] <zequence> Yes, would be nice to make it easier to read
[16:12] <zequence> I could imagine trying some different things with the design too
[16:12] <nickg_> for sure, i work til 8 Atlantic tonight, ill do that up tonight
[16:13] <nickg_> heres a question: what about like, a topbar on the site that spans 100% of the screen but the navigation is only set to like 1000px or whatever the main content areas width
[16:13] <nickg_> can i send you a screenshot of the design im working on for my own site?  its under maintainance mode
[16:13] <nickg_> here hold on
[16:14] <nickg_> http://nickgermaine.ca/ can you see the site, i turned off maintanance mode
[16:14] <zequence> Sure
[16:15] <nickg_> n that sites nowhere near finished, just got some of the basics done on it right now
[16:15] <zequence> nickg_: Here's my staging site http://www.ubuntustudio.mousike.me/
[16:16] <zequence> nickg_: The logo is new. You should get it and add it to your version as well
[16:16] <zequence> This one http://www.ubuntustudio.mousike.me/wp-content/themes/ubuntustudio-wp-devel/img/us-logo.png
[16:16] <zequence> The logo doesn't need to be that exact size or anything
[16:16] <OvenWerk1> zequence: re: black on black, I was actually given a hat/cap where the logo was black as well as the hat. It was a patch not a printed design, but it did work. Now that the hat has faded it works fine :) If the print texture is different enough, it will be ok.
[16:17] <OvenWerk1> though I don't think anyone will choose that ...
[16:17] <zequence> OvenWerk1: Would you want to risk it? :P
[16:17] <OvenWerk1> Whoever is paying the money gets to choose I guess.
[16:18] <zequence> nickg_: The important thing with the logo is the new design of it. With the fonts especially. The CoF symbol next to the text could be removed
[16:18] <OvenWerk1> Maybe it would be good for "formal" occasions :)
[16:18] <nickg_> yah the new logo looks prettier and softer
[16:20] <nickg_> oh yah, the search box hadn't been touched in the css either, it looks straight from the 90s, ill code up one on us.nickgermaine.ca later
[16:20] <nickg_> im just analyzing right now
[16:25] <zequence> nickg_: Would be great if you could fix that kind of stuff. Later, if we establish a unified artwork, and have specific design ideas for colors and patters and that sort of thing, we can just implement it. And use whatever you've done as inspiration too
[16:26] <zequence> You could basically feel free to do whatever you want. Just that artwork in terms of colors and patterns might change at a later stage
[16:28] <nickg_> yah for sure, im just gonna play around and if anyone likes it, you can use it,  busy working right now tho, this weekend i kind of have a lot of time
[17:52] <OvenWerk1> wow, there are a lot of things from 32 to 64 bit that are the same. Copying the 32 bit image to the 64 bit name and running zsync against it gives me over 50% done.
[17:54] <zequence> OvenWerk1: Smart move :)
[20:32] <cub> still at work, zequence-work ?


[00:18] <jthan> Evening!
[00:18] <jthan> little late, it seems
[00:19] <rmg51> for who?
[00:20] <rmg51> or for what?
[00:24] <jthan> to respond to InHisName1
[00:25] <rmg51> he's probably not around right now
[01:43] <InHisName1> maybe I was or not
[10:52] <rmg51> Morning
[13:14] <teddy-dbear> morning
[14:19] <JonathanD> morning.
[14:20] <teddy-dbear> o/


[11:36] <coz_> is there a natty wallpaper already chosen?
[11:54] <thorwil> coz_: while i have not much of a clue what happens inside canonical, that's very unlikely
[11:55] <coz_> thorwil,   ok
[11:55] <thorwil> wallpaper decisions tend to come late
[11:55] <coz_> thorwil,  I have a few old  wallpapers that until now really didnt fit with colour scheme
[11:56] <coz_> thorwil,  I also noticed that xubuntu  is not specifying palettes since apparenlty they want to change the look and feel I guess
[11:56] <thorwil> coz_: well, you can always add them to the flickr pool
[11:57] <coz_> thorwil,  ok
[11:57] <l3on> Hi all.. does someone of you know where I can find this accessibility icon? → http://pricklytech.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/ubuntu-boot-01.png
[11:57] <thorwil> coz_: for xubuntu only if it makes regarding the "performance" theme
[11:57] <coz_> l3on,  you mean the keyboard and person in circle thingy?
[11:58] <l3on> person in circle, yes
[11:58] <coz_> looks easy enough to make
[11:58] <coz_> let me check online
[11:59] <l3on> thank you coz_
[11:59] <thorwil> maybe part of the ubuntu-mono dark/light theme, found in /usr/share/icons?
[12:00] <thorwil> maybe hidden in some gdm specific place
[12:00]  * thorwil goes for a walk
[12:03] <coz_> l3on,  looks like this icon done in greyscale    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/132551/icon-help.svg
[12:03] <coz_> l3on,  did you want that in black and white?
[12:06] <coz_> l3on,  http://dl.dropbox.com/u/132551/accessibility.svg
[12:20] <l3on> coz_: thank you so much :))))
[13:33] <coz_> good day al
[16:23] <coz_> darkmatter,  I tried that thing for firefox from git for global menu but..it keeps reverting back :(
[16:24] <coz_> global menu does strange things to gnome panel here
[16:24] <darkmatter> oO
[16:24] <coz_> darkmatter,  with global menu ,,,here at least...when I right click to move an applet on the panel...it disappears
[16:24] <coz_> darkmatter,  but if I remove global menu from the system all is right :(
[16:24] <coz_> I dont like mac like things anyway
[16:25] <darkmatter> odd.
[16:25] <coz_> darkmatter,   yeah ...global menu never worked right for me
[16:25] <coz_> darkmatter,  no biggie   :)
[16:26] <coz_> darkmatter,  however...the way the google page looked on that screenshot was very very nice :)
[16:28] <darkmatter> coz_: the only reason I use it is because I don't like menus, as odd as it sounds (using a menu to get rid of menus. lol), but there really isn't any other way to universally ditch them without coding a crapload of replacement apps ;)
[16:28] <coz_> darkmatter,  for sure and I understand
[16:28] <coz_> darkmatter,  maybe you will like   compiz/unity
[16:29] <darkmatter> probably. as long as it's not gnome-shell. that thing is horrid (not so much the design, although I have issues with it, but performance)
[16:30] <coz_> darkmatter,  it isnt gnome shell...canonical has decided to drop mutter and replace it with compiz for 11.04  which apparenltyh is going to have the netbook inerface as default
[16:30] <coz_> darkmatter,  not gnome interface
[16:30] <coz_> darkmatter,  how did you get the "Google"   to be grey scale?
[16:31] <darkmatter> I can run vista/7 (not super grat, have to force compositing, but fairly snappy for an 'unsupported' card). gnome shell runs (pretty much literally) at approx 1000x slower xD
[16:31] <coz_> :)
[16:31] <coz_> darkmatter,  I sure hope gnome-shell falls by the way side
[16:31] <coz_> it sucks so far
[16:31] <darkmatter> coz_: I know it's clutter free silly. I said its *not* the shell, which is why I'll likely accept it
[16:32] <coz_> darkmatter,  oh I imisunderstood
[16:33] <darkmatter> coz_: and the main reason it sucks is clutter. I used to go into long winded rants about clutter (long before the shell came along), but then I ran out of breath :P
[16:33] <coz_> darkmatter, :)
[16:43] <darkmatter> coz_: oh, and about the greyscale google. that's a fully customized start-page (local), it just queries google (or bing, wikipedia, whatever is selected (can be changed) for the results. it's a mod of Infinise Go
[16:43] <darkmatter> coz_: http://go.infinise.com/ click the "i" in the lower right corner, has a link to the source
[16:44] <coz_> darkmatter,  oh thanks
[16:44] <coz_> oooo nice
[16:44] <darkmatter> np
[16:44] <darkmatter> hover over the logo to select an engine
[16:44] <coz_> darkmatter,  ok how to change the "google" logo colour?
[16:45] <coz_> I will try to figure it out :)
[16:45] <darkmatter> coz_: look in the sources (after downloading) the ingine banners are just images ;D
[16:45] <coz_> oo cool
[16:46] <darkmatter> combo images/css. fairly straight forward to work with
[16:46] <coz_> darkmatter,  very nice :")
[16:49] <darkmatter> coz_: yup. I'm going to do something really different though (when I have the time)with some js fun. I'm going to make a start page that just isint the web that'll replace the normal menu crap on the panel \o/
[16:49] <coz_> darkmatter,  cool :)  let me know  :)
[16:51] <darkmatter> coz_: either by imbedding webkit or gecko or just using tricks to hide the browser ui for the page. but places and favs and searches etc (start of an experiment before coding actual "centers" for stuff
[16:52] <coz_> darkmatter,  sounds cool...
[17:02] <coz_>  darkmatter  I really like this google thingy... very very nice,,, I really appreciate it pointing this out to me :)  of course this is usual procedure between you and me :)
[17:02] <darkmatter> coz_: and later today I'm beginning work on the basis for it all. a neo-retro semi-minimal theme (I'm pretty sure I talked about my design ideas before) that incorporates thing I miss about old-school OS's but updated and reimagined to go with all the crazy code I'll be working on
[17:02] <coz_> darkmatter,  yes you have talked about it
[17:03] <coz_> darkmatter,   I always like your ideas
[17:03] <coz_> darkmatter,  so I am sure you will do it  and I will use it :)
[17:04] <darkmatter> coz_: like "real" window management ala beos, amiga, next, etc
[17:04] <coz_> :)
[17:05] <coz_> darkmatter,  we had discussion about ...ooo may 10 months ago in #compiz about creating a new window decorator...I brought up BeOs tabbed windows with moveable tabs...othe broght up moveable title bars
[17:05] <coz_> darkmatter,  it started out well but then died off :(
[17:05] <darkmatter> coz_: one of the design influences is fictional though (well, semi fictional), lol. it's the SolarOS from Tron/Tron: Legacy :P
[17:09] <darkmatter> coz_: http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5247/5211533815_f21c117b40_b.jpg <-- take that for starters :P
[17:09] <coz_> :)
[17:13] <darkmatter> then toss in be, have shelves (ala the app level shelves in next's workspace) and other similar OS's. toss in centralized access for related activities and data (the centers I was talking about. doesn't matter where stuff is (local and online included), just matters "what" it is, etc etc. but a nice modern skinning. sudo techy, yet friendly and modern. I think you get the general idea
[17:13] <coz_> :)  yes I always understand your visuals :)
[17:14] <coz_> darkmatter,   I have to break here...family stuff...excuse me...I will be back in a bit