[09:05] <Kamion> Anna: fair enough, we (er, let me put my Debian hat on here) are really trying to put out a release with the new installer RSN, but Ubuntu will probably beat it out the door
[09:06] <Anna> But I have now ditched Windows actually.
[09:07] <liff> _Hiro_: what does your /proc/cmdline say?
[09:08] <_Hiro_> root=/dev/sda3 ro quiet splash
[09:08] <_Hiro_> it's important?
[09:08] <_Hiro_> I didn't really touch grub, all autogenerated
[09:08] <Anna> Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with "rising up to the task" and I am burning to become not fluent but at least bring my computing knowledge up to the level of being able to set up a network, host a domain on a server I configure myself and perhaps even write some code.
[09:09] <Anna> It's a long shot but I've set my mind to it..
[09:09] <liff> _Hiro_: no, just wondering if it was disabled there but apparently not..
[09:09] <chutwig> prepare for months of frustration
[09:09] <Anna> LOL
[09:09] <zombics> when i tryed to install the NVIDIA driver i got this error: -> The installer has encountered the following error during installation: 'Cannot backup /usr/lib64/libGL.so.1'.  Continue anyway?
[09:10] <tvon|x31> backup smackup
[09:10] <tvon|x31> er, shmackup
[09:10] <zombics> ? :/
[09:10] <tvon|x31> hrmph, anyways
[09:10] <zombics> did you talked 2 me?
[09:10] <Kamion> lib64? are you on amd64?
[09:10] <tvon|x31> You should be okay, I'd note the error though incase you have issues later (so you can file a bug report)
[09:10] <Kamion> I didn't think we did an NVIDIA driver for amd64 yet
[09:11] <sheinlein> liff: thanks, is it generally possible to also burn dvds?
[09:11] <sheinlein> liff: I get the following error:
[09:11] <zombics> Kamion, i downlaoded it from the nvidia site
[09:11] <sheinlein> liff::-( write failed: Wrong medium type
[09:11] <sheinlein> :-( media is not formatted or unsupported.
[09:11] <sheinlein> :-[ WRITE@LBA=0h failed with SK=5h/ASC=30h/ACQ=05h] : Wrong medium type
[09:11] <sheinlein> /dev/hdb: "Current Write Speed" is 2.0x1385KBps.
[09:11] <sheinlein> :-[ RESERVE TRACK failed with SK=5h/ASC=24h/ACQ=00h] : Input/output error
[09:11] <sheinlein> /dev/hdb: reserving 362464 blocks, warning for short DAO recording
[09:11] <sheinlein> /dev/hdb: FEATURE 21h is not on, engaging DAO...
[09:11] <sheinlein> WARNING: /dev/hdb already carries isofs!
[09:11] <Kamion> zombics: probably better to contact them about it ...
[09:11] <zombics> ok.... thx :)
[09:12] <sheinlein> But I know that my burner can handle DVD-RWs
[09:12] <Anna> Is there a firewall application I can use on Ubuntu? It would ease my paranoia.
[09:12] <zombics> where can i find the manul for the nvidia driver?(i remember that it shold be somewhere on my pc
[09:13] <michel_v_> anna: you can try firestarter
[09:13] <Kamion> Anna: there are no ports open by default :-)
[09:13] <michel_v_> it's very newbie-friendly
[09:13] <michel_v_> hmm
[09:13] <Kamion> (barring DHCP, I think there was a plan to look into that pre-final but it's not a big deal)
[09:13] <michel_v_> Ubuntu recognised I had a wifi pcmcia card, it seems
[09:13] <michel_v_> but it says no wireless peripheral
[09:13] <Anna> thanks.
[09:13] <Kamion> michel_v_: what says that?
[09:14] <michel_v_> oh, the tooltip on the gnome applet
[09:14] <liff> sheinlein: i've burned one dvd and it worked fine :) did you remember to enable the "empty cd" checkbox when you tried that?
[09:14] <michel_v_> Kamion: if it helps, my wifi card uses a chipset by Ralink, the 2500 most probably (since it's a 54g card)
[09:14] <Nonphasis> any idea for getting xmodmap to work in gnome?
[09:15] <Nonphasis> I mean autoread .Xmodmap and make it stay
[09:15] <michel_v_> Kamion: maybe it's just a mistranslation and the tooltip meant to say "no available wireless network"
[09:16] <subterrific> anyone have the link for the industrial firefox theme?
[09:16] <Anna> Kamion, when there are no open ports, how come you can read this?
[09:16] <Kamion> Anna: no open listening ports
[09:16] <Anna> Ah.
[09:17] <sheinlein> liff: which check box?
[09:17] <_Hiro_> keyboard selection during install is frustrating
[09:17] <Kamion> Anna: iptables is included in the base system, but it's not exactly GUI-friendly
[09:18] <Kamion> _Hiro_: we'll be changing that soon, there's been enough feedback about it that it seems we have to bring back the keyboard configuration screen
[09:18] <Anna> But if someone knew my IP (like here by clicking on the screen name), couldn't they try to open ports?
[09:18] <_Hiro_> the fact that it determines locale is a bit of a killer, you get a frankenstein's son language hybrid then
[09:18] <_Hiro_> please :)
[09:18] <Anna> I P address I meant
[09:18] <chutwig> Anna: how would they open the ports?
[09:18] <michel_v_> anna: no, they couldn't
[09:18] <chutwig> there's a difference between inbound and outbound ports
[09:18] <punkass> zombics: fabbione is wokring on a nvidia-glx package for 64...
[09:18] <_Hiro_> Kamion that ash shell provided was also a bit weird, it reacts very strange to stuff like backspace
[09:19] <_Hiro_> I broke out other bootdisks to repair the install
[09:19] <sivang> is there somewhere on the wiki a how to for netboot install?
[09:19] <Anna> @chutwig: Well I assume someone technically astute can open ports. But that assumption has been rendered false already..
[09:19] <chutwig> eh
[09:20] <Kamion> _Hiro_: it's busybox, not ash
[09:20] <Anna> I mean, how do hackers (crackers) access other people's computers? Isn't it by opening their ports?
[09:20] <_Hiro_> Kamion this is a bit specific but I use openvpn to provide me internet over the wireless network, could packages like openvpn be provided on the install disk?
[09:20] <chutwig> no
[09:20] <Kamion> Anna: no, it's by exploiting things that are already listening
[09:20] <chutwig> they use exploits in services that run at a root level, typically
[09:21] <_Hiro_> it said it created an ash shell on that ram disk
[09:21] <Kamion> Anna: (generally; it's more complicated than that)
[09:21] <Kamion> _Hiro_: the text is just a bit out of date, that's all
[09:21] <Deft> Anna: it's by accessing ports that are open; ie. have a program listening on them
[09:21] <_Hiro_> I see :)
[09:21] <marquivon> i've booted from ubuntu's netboot install and reached a stage where it asks for the ubuntu mirror to be entered. i've setup my own debian repository and am using all files from the iso. though i'm able to apt-get update using my own repository in sources.list, but ubuntu not taking that properly
[09:21] <Kamion> _Hiro_: backspace has always worked for me ...
[09:21] <_Hiro_> it was too annoying to use anyway...
[09:21] <chutwig> using a buffer overflow you can push arbitrary things into memory, and that's how exploits most commonly work
[09:21] <Kamion> marquivon: at the moment the CD image is not a valid repository for use from netboot installs
[09:22] <_Hiro_> azerty keyboard that I use as querty during your install, maybe that's it ;)
[09:22] <phlaegel> Anna: an open port has a program listening to it (like a web server). if the web server software has a vulnerability, it can be attacked.
[09:22] <Anna> I see. Very interesting
[09:22] <liff> sheinlein: good point -- it isn't there anymore (just checked)
[09:22] <Kamion> marquivon: there's a bug open about it; at the moment you need to rsync the rest of the archive down from archive.ubuntulinux.org
[09:22] <_Hiro_> a real showstopper was grub, it stopped dead at stage1.5
[09:22] <liff> sheinlein: i mean, there's such a checkbox in gnome2.6 on debian sid, but looks like it's missing here
[09:22] <marquivon> Kamion: actually it took a long time downloading the CD :-(
[09:23] <_Hiro_> turned out the scsi disk was wrongly detected as disk1 when the ata disk was alive (even though BIOS is set to dictate otherwise)
[09:23] <marquivon> Kamion: if i rsync, then can i save that locally on one debian machine and then setup ubuntu on another machine using those files?
[09:24] <Kamion> marquivon: you may be able to get away with using the standard archive (not the one you put together from the ISO) before the first reboot, then using your own repository after the first reboot
[09:24] <_Hiro_> I don't know if it's feasible but a soundcard selection box would rock as well. The auto-detect actually found my BIOS disabled built-in soundcard and placed that as primary card over my SB Live :)
[09:24] <Kamion> _Hiro_: in general you need to file bugs about this kind of thing :)
[09:24] <_Hiro_> well, don't know if it's a bug even :P
[09:24] <Kamion> dubious, I guess
[09:25] <_Hiro_> it detected and installed and configured AND unmuted it perfectly
[09:25] <marquivon> marquivon: oh. that means, i should use a mirror first (i.e. the first stage of ubuntu setup) and when it reboots i should specify my own repository?
[09:25] <_Hiro_> so that's super
[09:25] <Kamion> it would depend if it's actually possible to tell that it's BIOS-disabled
[09:25] <Deft> Anna: It's pretty hard to learn a lot from irc, you get many people saying the same thing, but not going into much depth; linux doc project/google are probably more useful
[09:25] <Kamion> marquivon: yeah
[09:25] <_Hiro_> and the system does have multiple cards I suppose :P
[09:25] <_Hiro_> same for the pci vid card, also detected that one
[09:25] <_Hiro_> it had no monitor so that was weird when X activated that :P
[09:25] <marquivon> Kamion: i think i can do the first part without any hassles, but how will i specify my own repository in the second stage?
[09:25] <_Hiro_> live and learn
[09:26] <_Hiro_> but it's my fault for not taking it out
[09:26] <Anna> Yes, Deft, I've been browsing those sites as well.
[09:26] <chutwig> Anna: really the best way to learn anything is just to mess around with it until it breaks
[09:26] <_Hiro_> still great that it detected it flawlessly
[09:27] <ish> Anyone know if there is a reason the sounder list hasn't made it to gmane yet?
[09:27] <tvon|x31> has it been setup?
[09:27] <mwh_> Hello, anyone know how to configure ssh to not use a key when doing a remote login?
[09:27] <Anna> I'm currently using my private box to mess around, but I certainly don't want anything to break;-:-)
[09:27] <Deft> chutwig: should add a disclaimer to that; surgery for example doesn't fit that method
[09:27] <mwh_> like Enter passphrase for key '/home/foo/.ssh/id_rsa':
[09:27] <chutwig> Deft: learn anything with computers :)
[09:27] <mwh_> when the key is not needed by the server
[09:28] <Kamion> marquivon: you might have to ctrl-c, edit /etc/apt/sources.list, apt-get update, aptitude -y install ~tubuntu-desktop
[09:28] <mwh_> before I installed a id_rsa to be used with other sites it worked ok
[09:28] <Kamion> marquivon: probably won't be pretty, though
[09:28] <_Hiro_> how do you connect to the remote site?
[09:28] <snadeaben> mwh_: You mean, you want to enter your regular password instead?
[09:28] <chutwig> i started learning linux pretty quickly when i destroyed red hat 5.2 about ten times in a week
[09:28] <_Hiro_> you normally have to specify the key with -i option
[09:28] <mwh_> snadeaben: yes
[09:29] <phin> hey, i know this is kinda nit picky,  but is there a way to change the way the [ ok ] 's look?
[09:29] <phin> i kinda like the fedora colors :P
[09:29] <_Hiro_> hehe
[09:29] <Kamion> ssh -o 'PubkeyAuthentication no'
[09:29] <phin> hey there hiro :)
[09:29] <_Hiro_> hey phin :)
[09:29] <chutwig> it's just a part of a startup script
[09:29] <snadeaben> mwh_: on the remote server, make sure there is no entry in the .ssh/id_rsa file matching your computer
[09:29] <mteira> Hi
[09:29] <Deft> chutwig: yeah, I got through a good few debian installs before I actually did anything much
[09:29] <phin> chutwig: ahh ok.
[09:29] <chutwig> learn the escape commands and the colors and go to town
[09:29] <marquivon> Kamion: sighs. i've been trying to install ubuntu on 3 machines thru a network and those machines don't have CD drive nor floppy. but they've redhat installed and i wish to replace that. i've reached a long way and now know a little bit setting up repositories, so will end it as well
[09:29] <chutwig> Deft: linux was miserably unfriendly back then
[09:30] <Anna> I'm probably a very unusual newbie in the sense that I switched before having gathered knowledge. But I'm very lazy and if I had kept MS I had continued my stagnation.
[09:30] <Kamion> marquivon: it's one of my 60 or so bugs to fix :)
[09:30] <phin> ok one more thing,  will you guys be including the option of using the kdrive server in the next release for lowerend systems?
[09:30] <chutwig> i think it's better now, but when something breaks, it still breaks just as hard as it did before
[09:30] <mwh_> snadeaben: there is no such file on the remote server
[09:30] <marquivon> Kamion: really appreciated all the effort that has gone into it :-)
[09:31] <mteira> I was thinking about opening two bug reports, but I'm not sure if at this stage of development, they're fair.
[09:31] <_Hiro_> yeah this is the first distro that'll keep me on debian :)
[09:31] <chutwig> i like debian, but i kind of prefer rpm over dpkg
[09:31] <Anna> How long have you been using linux now @chutwig?
[09:31] <mteira> The first one is about file-roller. I selected some files, right click and create a new compressed archive.
[09:32] <chutwig> Anna: i guess i started in 1999 or 2000
[09:32] <Deft> you never relly need to see dpkg, unlike rpm
[09:32] <subterrific> phin: is kdrive stable?
[09:32] <chutwig> i'm a mac user now, so i get the positives of unix but i don't have to see it unless i want to
[09:32] <snadeaben> mwh_: hmm, what files are in the remote hosts ~/.ssh/
[09:32] <phin> sub: i belive it is
[09:32] <mteira> I was on desktop, and the temporary files appeared on the desktop. I think this is not very clean. Shouldn't be better to create them on another (temp) directory?
[09:32] <mwh_> snadeaben: .ssh/auto* are not available
[09:32] <chutwig> Deft: i like rpm for its signing and verification
[09:32] <phin> i usually compile it myself
[09:32] <mwh_> snadeaben: known_hosts(2)
[09:32] <mteira> Of course, once the final file was created, the temporal files dissapeared.
[09:32] <mteira> But, anyway, it's a little ugly
[09:32] <chutwig> and rpm's ability to verify the integrity of everything registered in its database has proven invaluable before
[09:32] <michel_v_> chutwig: unless you have to killall Mail.app sometimes when it wouldn't close :/
[09:33] <mteira> Should I open a bug?
[09:33] <chutwig> michel_v_: i seem to be the only person in the world who doesn't have problems with mail.app
[09:33] <chutwig> jinx
[09:33] <phin> i really think it would be a great option for the next release, since ts based on the xorg codebase
[09:33] <phin> for us with lowerend machines
[09:33] <Deft> chutwig: I think that's about the archives rather than dpkg itself; I think it is possible...
[09:33] <snadeaben> mwh_: hmm.... strange. If you haven't uploaded your public key to the server, it shouldn't ask for passphrase but password instead
[09:33] <Deft> not that that helps much
[09:34] <chutwig> Deft: the signing would need to go into the archives, yeah
[09:34] <mwh_> snadeaben: yes, that would be nice if it did but it does not :(
[09:34] <Kamion> mteira: yep
[09:34] <chutwig> being able to execute rpm -Va or whatever it is that verifies the entire package database and everything installed from it is a dpkg matter, though
[09:34] <mteira> Kamion: OK.
[09:34] <mteira> The other one.
[09:34] <Kamion> chutwig: dpkg has md5sums files (see debsums)
[09:34] <mteira> I'm not sure if this is a nautilus issue.
[09:35] <snadeaben> mwh_: are you the admin of the remote host - have you set up the sshd server on it, I mean?
[09:35] <Kamion> chutwig: they aren't quite in every package, but they're in most of them
[09:35] <chutwig> plus dpkg pisses me off now because it sucks at recovering from botched installs
[09:35] <mteira> But when you copy a file from a remote host in the network, to your desktop, and nautilus is able to show a miniature (snapshot), it's recreated a lot of times.
[09:35] <mteira> This is because the file is changing all the time.
[09:35] <_Hiro_> you can use synaptic to try and repair it
[09:35] <chutwig> "these packages got corrupted when the computer crashed but you can't remove them even with -P because the scripts also got corrupted and i refuse to allow you to resolve the issue in any way"
[09:35] <snadeaben> mwh_: What if you in fact enter the passphrase for your key, does it let you log in?
[09:35] <phin> anyway, either way, this is my first install of ubuntu and its kicking ass!
[09:35] <chutwig> i had to format to fix that fun time
[09:35] <mteira> So, it flashes between the clock icon and the still incomplete content.
[09:35] <_Hiro_> me too, few minor details but otherwise super
[09:36] <_Hiro_> much better than RH & co
[09:36] <mteira> Kamion: What about this one?
[09:36] <Kamion> the standard approach is to fiddle with the maintainer scripts that are causing errors; it's quite possible to recover without formatting
[09:36] <mwh_> snadeaben: no
[09:36] <Kamion> dpkg could certainly do with a --force-continue-on-maintscript-error or something though
[09:36] <chutwig> yeah
[09:36] <Kamion> mteira: I don't know, I'm afraid
[09:37] <chutwig> i thought the issue had been solved when it said it was going to pull the faulty packages from the repository again but then it bombed out and i gave up
[09:37] <mwh_> I have some trouble installing libgtkspell-dev-2.0.5-3, I have libgtkspell0-2.0.7-1 installed and when I try to install the dev package with synaptic I get a conflict
[09:37] <mteira> Kamion: Perhaps I have explained it really wrong.
[09:37] <Kamion> chutwig: usually you want to edit /var/lib/dpkg/info/<whatever>.postrm, that's the main one that tends to cause an issue
[09:37] <snadeaben> mwh_: on the client machine you're logging in from, is there a id_rsa.pub file in your $HOME/.ssh?
[09:37] <Kamion> mteira: I don't know an awful lot about the desktop, I'm afraid
[09:37] <chutwig> Kamion: i shall note it for future reference
[09:38] <mteira> Kamion: Thanks anyway.
[09:38] <mwh_> Dependencies: libgtkspell0 but 2.0.7-1 is to be installed
[09:38] <phin> is adding kdrive to the next release something i would probly be better off bringing up in the mailing list?
[09:38] <mwh_> snadeaben: no
[09:38] <Kamion> chutwig: mind you, if there were a --force-continue-on-maintscript-error or whatever then it would certainly be abused, people would hose their systems and then file bugs ...
[09:38] <mwh_> snadeaben: maybe thats the problem
[09:39] <chutwig> Kamion: i don't doubt it
[09:39] <chutwig> i think it would be avoidable with better error recovery on dpkg's part
[09:39] <Kamion> people have been known to use --force-all in the past, which is just really scary; that allows dpkg to do things like replacing directories with files
[09:39] <chutwig> it seems to have a tendency to crap itself when things go wrong
[09:39] <Kamion> chutwig: it's very good for everything except the postrm
[09:39] <plovs> phin, why would you like to have kdrive? I used it and it is not *that* special
[09:40] <michel_v_> hmm
[09:40] <chutwig> i guess i'm just a slave to rpm :)
[09:40] <snadeaben> mwh_: I dont know why it requires you to enter a passphrase... Maybe you can setup sshd to not accept logins only using passwords, but to require a keypair login
[09:40] <michel_v_> where are the Vino prefs in Ubuntu?
[09:40] <michel_v_> I'm trying to get prefs on remote vnc
[09:40] <phin> plovs: when your on a k6-2 300 it is
[09:40] <snadeaben> mwh_:  you know how to generate a new keypair?
[09:40] <mwh_> snadeaben: when I put my id_rsa.pub file there then it works :o)
[09:40] <michel_v_> nevermind, found it
[09:40] <tvon|x31> ssh-keygen
[09:40] <Kamion> michel_v_: Computer -> Desktop Preferences -> Remote Desktop
[09:40] <mwh_> snadeaben: in the client .ssh dir that is
[09:40] <mwh_> snadeaben: thanks for your help :o)
[09:41] <mwh_> now back to my dependencies problem
[09:41] <schweeb> if it asks for a passphrase to use the key, that means you encoded it w/ a passphrase
[09:41] <Kamion> phin: we'll be doing X.org stuff in Hoary, yes, not absolutely sure whether it'll be kdrive or debrix or what
[09:41] <phin> ok, i figured it would be nice to atleast offer it as an option :)
[09:41] <snadeaben> mwh_: Yep, that's what I thought. np :)
[09:41] <phin> i think i will bring it up on the mailinglist so its not forgeten :P
[09:41] <chutwig> i want to get a less crappy computer to run linux on, but that doesn't really seem to be in the cards, since i'm really goddamn poo
[09:41] <chutwig> r
[09:42] <Anna> I'm happy you added the "r"
[09:43] <snadeaben> I could have sworn I saw unrar/rar available for install earlier, but now I can't seem to find it in synaptic? Is it correct that unrar is not available?
[09:43] <chutwig> i live to serve
[09:43] <mwh_> can anyone replicate the error im getting? ie can anyone here install libgtkspell-dev from synaptic
[09:43] <plovs> phin, how much memory do you have
[09:43] <Cardador> snadeaben: get it from debian
[09:43] <mwh_> im using only the supported archives
[09:43] <phin> plovs: 64
[09:43] <Anna> I was attempting humor.
[09:44] <chutwig> i don't get jokes
[09:44] <Deft> what's white and can't climb trees?
[09:44] <tory> buttwig
[09:44] <Anna> Me neither, and I'm usually the only one laughing at mine.
[09:44] <snadeaben> Cardador: I just add debian repositories to my apt/sources.list or what? Forgive my ignorance, I'm totally new to apt, having been a faithful Mandrake follower for many years :)
[09:44] <chutwig> tory: jmp up my butt
[09:45] <tory> o rly
[09:45] <plovs> phin, that's not very much maybe you shouldn't use gnome then
[09:45] <chutwig> snadeaben: it's better to uncomment the universe lines in there already and rerun apt-get update
[09:45] <schweeb> there's "rar-2.80" in main....
[09:45] <phin> well, i dont
[09:45] <schweeb> unrar is a separate program from rar entirely (and not as featureful)
[09:46] <snadeaben> chutwig: Did that, but it still doesn't find it apparently... let me try again... maybe I'm just a total tool
[09:46] <phin> i use blackbox
[09:47] <phin> thou i am thinking of using gnome -nautilus, just to see
[09:48] <phin> and i found out how to change the colors on the startup stuff,  /lib/lsb/init-functions :)
[09:48] <plovs> phin, what I didn't like about kdrive is that (as far as I can tell) the refreshrate 60hz is, after an hour it will make your eyes fall out
[09:48] <phin> i use lcd
[09:48] <phin> :)
[09:49] <phin> i just think it would be a nice option from the start
[09:49] <plovs> phin, ah, then t might be ok, what graphiccard?
[09:49] <phin> since no other distro's offer it
[09:49] <phin> a neomagic 256
[09:49] <phin> its a small k6-300 laptop i use for lite browsing and coding
[09:49] <phin> i still have alot of use out of it, so i like to milk it for all its worth
[09:50] <plovs> phin, well it is a small package, you should maybe ask on ubuntu-devel
[09:50] <phin> plovs i plan to.  thanks :)
[09:50] <plovs> phin, I use a p133 laptop, so 300 is *wow*
[09:50] <phin> hehe
[09:50] <phin> you should look into kdrive
[09:50] <phin> its pretty nice
[09:51] <phin> a vast improvement in speed
[09:51] <phin> its designed for the 486 market.
[09:51] <plovs> phin, I used it on my desktop, my laptop is not vesa-compliant :(
[09:51] <phin> :-(
[09:52] <snadeaben> Further on the unrar problem: After adding universe to sources.list (uncommenting the lines already there), and running apt-get update and apt-get install unrar, I get this: Package unrar is not available, but is referred to by another package.
[09:52] <snadeaben> This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or
[09:52] <snadeaben> is only available from another source
[09:52] <snadeaben> E: Package unrar has no installation candidate
[09:52] <Ann1> Oops.
[09:52] <_Hiro_> welkom :)
[09:52] <Ann1> No it's me, Anna;-)
[09:52] <michel_v_> hmm
[09:52] <_Hiro_> yes I know
[09:52] <Ann1> I don't know what happened
[09:52] <chutwig> willkommen
[09:53] <michel_v_> my wifi card uses a driver that is not packaged for ubuntu (driver is free but not redistributable it seems)
[09:53] <Ann1> How did you know I'm German?
[09:53] <_Hiro_> you can do /nick Anna and your name will change again
[09:53] <chutwig> i didn't
[09:53] <_Hiro_> you're dutch
[09:53] <michel_v_> is it possible with ubuntu to compile a module for it and then use the driver?
[09:53] <_Hiro_> adsl.zonnet.nl
[09:53] <Ann1> No, I live in Holland, but I'm German
[09:53] <_Hiro_> right? :P
[09:53] <Ann1> yes
[09:53] <phin> nice
[09:53] <phin> i changed the color of the * and the [ ok ]  and the [ fail ]
[09:53] <phin> :)
[09:54] <phin> <- nerd
[09:54] <_Hiro_> those fails are a bit bizar :/
[09:54] <chutwig> obwohl wenn du deutsch bist knnen wir dieses kanal sehr international machen
[09:54] <_Hiro_> I get a lot of fails for something called pcieh which I assume is for pci express?
[09:54] <chutwig> oder was, mein deutsch ist kaputt
[09:54] <phin> adding root is easy as well
[09:54] <plovs> phin, what did you change, you wrote it down but it scrolled of my screen
[09:54] <phin> i just sudo passwd root
[09:55] <phin> /lib/lsb/init-functions
[09:55] <Ann1> -diesen- Kanal, but otherwise your German is far from kaputt
[09:55] <_Hiro_> I use that root terminal it's nice
[09:55] <chutwig> diesen, whatever
[09:55] <phin> Hiro: old dog, new tricks.. blah blah
[09:55] <phin> :)
[09:55] <sladen> phin: though I don't recommend it as you loose all the advantages of sudo
[09:55] <chutwig> we had the bright idea of getting rid of all that grammatical gender crap centuries ago
[09:55] <Ann1> Who is we?
[09:55] <_Hiro_> even the terminal isn't a problem you know
[09:55] <_Hiro_> just get screen
[09:55] <phin> sladen: maybe i will slowly adapt, as it is right now its more of a frustration :(
[09:55] <chutwig> we being all english speakers
[09:56] <_Hiro_> sudo screen bash    :P
[09:56] <Ann1> Ah.
[09:56] <schweeb> or sudo su, _Hiro_
[09:56] <schweeb> or sudo -s
[09:56] <_Hiro_> ah I didn't know that :o
[09:56] <Deft> english got rid of all the grammar sadly
[09:56] <Deft> now we just string any old words together and hope
[09:56] <chutwig> english has lots of grammar, as any foreigner will attest
[09:56] <plovs> phin, thanks
[09:57] <phin> plovs: np
[09:57] <Deft> yes, we have a grammar rule for almost every word
[09:57] <phin> http://www.shelluser.net/~giles/bashprompt/prompts/flex.html
[09:57] <phin> that site gave me all the color codes i needed
[09:57] <crimsun> english is insane
[09:57] <_Hiro_> hell no, we as foreigners just make words up like color instead of colour ;)
[09:58] <Ann1> Actually I'm a European nationalist who likes to see a Europe of provinces with nation-states dissolved.
[09:58] <WW> http://www.ucl.ac.uk/internet-grammar/
[09:58] <mteira> :)
[09:58] <_Hiro_> and since we're foreign you must pity us
[09:58] <mteira> No rules in english, any rule has 1000 exceptions.
[09:58] <chutwig> english is a pretty miserable language to learn
[09:58] <plovs> phin, nice
[09:58] <mteira> That's not a rule.
[09:58] <felixdz> For the Dutch speakers out there. I have put knoppix to the harddisk on my neighbors computer. She has no Internet connection yet.
[09:59] <mteira> There's no a phonetic vs alphabetic logical binding.
[09:59] <chutwig> there is, but it's sort of twisted
[09:59] <_Hiro_> haha nukular vs nuclear you mean? ;)
[09:59] <felixdz> she is Dutch. My question is if I install ubuntu choosing Dutch as the language will it install open office in Dutch?
[09:59] <crimsun> "nukuler"
[09:59] <crimsun> we love geedub
[09:59] <mteira> More or less.
[09:59] <_Hiro_> you may need to install the openoffice dutch language pack
[10:00] <_Hiro_> but gnome will be in dutch
[10:00] <mteira> In spanish one letter always sounds the same.
[10:00] <mteira> Well, most of times. :)
[10:00] <chutwig> that's because spanish isn't creative like english
[10:00] <Deft> Esperanto for everyone!
[10:00] <michel_v_> hmm
[10:00] <mteira> chutwig: Sure. :)
[10:00] <gommans> Silly question. Are there plans for a forum?
[10:00] <chutwig> i do linguistics at school anyway
[10:00] <phin> plov: brb ima reboot and test, i will let you know the results! :)
[10:00] <michel_v_> is there a simple way to install and run sshd on ubuntu?
[10:00] <chutwig> english has a whole lot of vowels
[10:00] <mteira> Deft: :)
[10:00] <chutwig> michel_v_: apt-get install ssh
[10:01] <crimsun> spanish isn't creative?!
[10:01] <felixdz> Sounds like I should wait until she has her Internet connection to change her Office. She is in her 70's.
[10:01] <michel_v_> besides apt-get install ssh and then CONFIG FILE HELL? :)
[10:01] <snadeaben> hmm... can anyone install unrar from apt? Apparently it isn't in there anymore...
[10:01] <mteira> chutwig: Only 5 vowels in spanish?
[10:01] <Ann1> No, we don't need esperanto, we just learn deaf peoples sign language
[10:01] <mteira> crimsun: I disagree.
[10:01] <chutwig> what config file hell?
[10:01] <crimsun> snadeaben: use rar e ...
[10:01] <chutwig> mteira: probably more, definitely more if you count diphthongs
[10:01] <chutwig> but not as many as english
[10:01] <felixdz> Just got her used to KDE. Still she had no bad windoze habits to get rid of!
[10:01] <crimsun> snadeaben: or use the free unrar that's in pool now (but it won't expand v3.x archives)
[10:01] <Ann1> That would make interesting fonts (animated gifs of people) <chuckle>
[10:01] <mteira> chutwig: For me, a diphthong are two vowels bind.
[10:01] <mteira> s/bind/bound
[10:02] <schweeb> michel_v_: what are you talking about? config file hell for ssh?
[10:02] <schweeb> ...
[10:02] <chutwig> mteira: yes, or a vowel with a glide
[10:02] <mteira> A glide. What's that?
[10:02] <chutwig> [w]  or [j]  in transcription
[10:02] <mteira> chutwig: Sorry, but my english is really short.
[10:02] <Deft> like an accent, but not
[10:03] <chutwig> they're half-vowels
[10:03] <masticator> ok
[10:03] <masticator> so I got my ubuntu up
[10:03] <masticator> why doesnt it let me log on as root
[10:03] <masticator> I can get into synaptic as root
[10:03] <chutwig> root's disabled, use sudo
[10:03] <masticator> but I cant SU or log in from the GDM as root
[10:04] <masticator> sudo? ok
[10:04] <michel_v_> schweeb, chutwig: hmm, forgot the default config file is OK :p
[10:04] <schweeb> yea...
[10:04] <Ann1> I'll be signing off now. Good night.
[10:04] <masticator> sudo, not su?
[10:04] <chutwig> sudo is for performing individual commands as root
[10:04] <plovs> how can I change the language gnome uses?
[10:04] <felixdz> If you want a root password: sudo passwd root
[10:04] <chutwig> you can get a root shell with sudo -s
[10:04] <schweeb> it asks you like 2 questions... like "do you want to run the sshd server"
[10:04] <schweeb> and then just works
[10:05] <chutwig> i personally think it's a better idea to leave the root account disabled
[10:06] <masticator> ok, now for the nvidia accelerated drivers
[10:06] <Kamion> michel_v_: /whois masticator
[10:06] <Kamion> oops!
[10:06] <masticator> to install that you need kernel source
[10:06] <mteira> Humm, you can always write 'sudo bash'
[10:06] <Kamion> michel_v_: ignore that :-)
[10:06] <masticator> because it has to recompile the driver against the kernel
[10:06] <mteira> So, you will have a root terminal, won't you?
[10:06] <felixdz> Great got k3b working in ubuntu. Had to run from Run Application menu in gnome. Is there a way to get my k programs automagically into gnome?
[10:07] <Kamion> masticator: that's a bit smoother on i386, I believe; work still remains to bring amd64 up to par
[10:07] <snadeaben> crimsun: I'm sorry but I cant find either...
[10:07] <masticator> what is the exact kernel being used on ubuntu
[10:08] <masticator> cause I can just shove the kernel.org stuff into /usr/src
[10:08] <masticator> any ubuntu staffers on the channel now?
[10:08] <Deft> masticator: there is a kernel source package in the ubuntu archive
[10:08] <masticator> deft: thanky
[10:09] <masticator> so just apt-get install kernel-source ?
[10:09] <felixdz> Got to go. TTFN
[10:09] <masticator> I write for linux magazine, am working on an article on the various debian variants out now
[10:09] <WW> masticator: I may have missed an earlier message.  Does Kamion's comment mean you are using amd64?
[10:09] <masticator> yeah I am using the AMD version
[10:10] <Deft> masquerade: use synaptic, search for the linux-source-<version> package
[10:10] <masticator> I had to rip out a gig of ram to make the system boot
[10:10] <masticator> lol
[10:10] <plovs> masticator, if all you want is nvidia install nvidia-glx
[10:10] <Kamion> masticator: it's linux-source-<IP_ADDRESS>
[10:10] <masquerade> Deft, wrong person?
[10:10] <Kamion> plovs: currently that package is only available on i386, not amd64
[10:10] <masticator> plovs: but the changes to the xconfig file need to be made manually right
[10:11] <Kamion> masticator: staffers> yes, hello
[10:11] <masticator> yeah I better download teh kernel.org source then
[10:11] <plovs> masticator, yes
[10:11] <masticator> <IP_ADDRESS> is screwy though
[10:11] <masticator> it breaks cdrecord
[10:11] <masticator> dvd burning doesnt work
[10:11] <Mithrandir> masticator: sudo su - ; then it works
[10:11] <Kamion> masticator: I was under the impression we'd patched most of those problems
[10:11] <plovs> Kamion, I mentally ignored masticator is so lucky he has an amd64 :)
[10:12] <Deft> masquerade: yes, not enough tab presses, sorry
[10:12] <terence> how can i get mplayer or xine in ubuntu?
[10:12] <masticator> will I break stuff if I add any debian sources to this thing?
[10:12] <plovs> xine is in universe, mplayer isn't
[10:12] <Deft> terence: totem-xine is in the universe repository
[10:12] <masticator> is KDE in universe?
[10:13] <Kamion> masticator: we advise using the 'universe' component instead, which is basically Debian compiled against warty
[10:13] <Kamion> masticator: yes
[10:13] <masticator> ok, I will do that
[10:13] <plovs> masticator, depends on the repositary, mplayer and java doesn't break anything
[10:13] <terence> Deft: whats the source to the universe rep ?
[10:13] <Kamion> masticator: I believe that SG_IO-safe-commands-2.dpatch fixes the CD burning problems
[10:13] <Kamion> terence: look in /etc/apt/sources.list, it's there but commented out
[10:13] <masticator> in ubuntu there is no concept of stable/testing/unstable right
[10:14] <Kamion> masticator: not in the same way
[10:14] <terence> Kamion: thanks
[10:14] <Tomcat_> There's "usable" and CVS I think. :o
[10:14] <Kamion> masticator: when warty is released, we'll open up a development repository called hoary, which will be branched off Debian sid
[10:14] <masticator> I like what you guys did with the debian installer
[10:14] <Kamion> thanks
[10:14] <Deft> terence: synaptic has a repository selection dialog
[10:15] <Tomcat_> What did they do with the Debian installer? :D
[10:15] <masticator> are you guys gonna use Progeny's anaconda stuff?
[10:15] <Kamion> masticator: probably not, at least not by default; it's not really all that flexible
[10:15] <plovs> Tomcat_, they took out half of the questions and it still installs fine
[10:15] <masticator> thats too bad, its pretty
[10:15] <Tomcat_> Well okay. :)
[10:15] <Kamion> masticator: we'll be doing work on a graphical version of debian-installer instead
[10:16] <Tomcat_> One of these is "use UTC for hardware clock", which I still find askable :)
[10:16] <masticator> graphical debian-installer?
[10:16] <michel_v_> hmm, how should I go about compiling the Ralink module for my kernel and insmod it, on ubuntu?
[10:16] <Kamion> (in cooperation with debian-installer upstream, obviously)
[10:16] <jo> Kamion: nice!
[10:16] <Tomcat_> But it's good, yeah.
[10:16] <Kamion> Tomcat_: I have a bug open about that, we'll be asking that if there are other operating systems on the disk
[10:16] <michel_v_> (also, when I got that done, will ubuntu automatically load the module?)
[10:16] <masticator> aright I gotta go do some hacking and slashing, be back in a bit
[10:16] <michel_v_> (ralink rt2500.ko is the module for my wifi pcmcia card)
[10:16] <masticator> driver compilation time
[10:17] <Kamion> masticator: p.s. linux-headers-* should be sufficient for driver compilation, you shouldn't need the whole source ...
[10:17] <Kamion> masticator: current daily CD builds include the linux-headers packages
[10:17] <masticator> ok will try downloading tht
[10:17] <Tomcat_> Kamion: Yeah, I think I filed the bug ;)
[10:17] <masticator> that nvidia installer is a picky nicky though
[10:19] <plovs> what is the url of bugzilla?
[10:19] <_Hiro_> bugzilla.ubuntu.com  :)
[10:19] <schweeb> https://bugzilla.ubuntulinux.org
[10:19] <Kamion> plovs: see the topic of this channel
[10:19] <_Hiro_> ?
[10:19] <plovs> Kamion, doh, it is late
[10:19] <_Hiro_> oof I thought I submitted to the wrong buzilla :s
[10:20] <terence> i need something in ubuntu that can play .wmv
[10:20] <Tomcat_> omfg.
[10:20] <Tomcat_> terence: Windows? :D
[10:21] <jo> I think I found a bug in Evolution, but I'm not sure. Check this out: http://lumumba.luc.ac.be/jo/temp/pics/evolution_check_every_x_minutes.png
[10:21] <michel_v_> terence: totem, but with the xine backend most probably
[10:21] <jo> it's in Dutch
[10:21] <terence> i got every xine and totem package installed
[10:21] <_Hiro_> jo and what's your locale?
[10:21] <snadeaben> Jo: Yes, if it's in dutch, it most certainly is a bug ;)
[10:22] <jo> it's Dutch
[10:22] <jo> that's not the problem :)
[10:22] <jo> as you can see the sentence "Automatisch controleren op nieuwe post, iedere ..." is repeated at the bottom... It means "check for new mail every ... minutes"
[10:22] <jo> I'm from Flanders, Belgium so I speak Dutch :-)
[10:23] <jo> this happens when you create a new account using the druid.. Does this occur with other languages as well?
[10:23] <snadeaben> jo: ye, that does look strange... the dutch I mean... :) No seriously, that doesn't look right - I set up an account last night, and there wasn't that repetition in my version, I'm sure
[10:24] <jo> snadeaben: and what's your locale?
[10:24] <snadeaben> locale is danish i think, I used the english version though
[10:25] <jo> Should I file this to ubuntu's bugzilla, or should I address the Dutch translation team?
[10:25] <snadeaben> jo: Good question... I'd go with the translation team first, me thinks
[10:25] <terence> anyone got mplayer on ubuntu ?
[10:26] <kolya> 'lo all
[10:26] <jo> terence: maybe you could try ftp.nerim.net's packages, they might break stuff though -> http://www.princessleia.com/MPlayer2.html
[10:27] <terence> thanks
[10:27] <jo> snadeaben: thanks, I'll send them a mail..
[10:27] <jo> np
[10:29] <phin> plov: make sure you make a backup of that file, or you'll be sitting like how i wa for a moment :P
[10:30] <plovs> phin, linux is made for that :)
[10:30] <phin> :-D
[10:31] <plovs> terence, I have mplayer and it works ok
[10:31] <phin> the best i could do is change the ok to green
[10:31] <phin> oh well
[10:31] <phin> i'll havta study fedoras or something and get a better idea on howto do it
[10:32] <plovs> phin, that is already quite nice, it is easier to see, I liked that about fedora
[10:32] <phin> yep, if i had a running copy i would mess with it now.
[10:33] <plovs> phin, use qemu to install it
[10:35] <phin> hmm
[10:43] <jo> snadeaben: I mailed it to the translation team..
[10:46] <snadeaben> jo: alright, hopefully it will be fixed soon
[10:50] <mteira> One question, please.
[10:50] <mteira> I've connected my mp3 player
[10:51] <mteira> It was mounted automatically as sda1.
[10:51] <mteira> When I erase some songs, no more free space was available.
[10:51] <mteira> I fired a gnome-terminal and went into the /media/sda1
[10:51] <mteira> And found a .Trash-mteira folder with all the files I erased.
[10:52] <mteira> Well, is there any gui-way to real erase files on a remobable media?
[10:52] <Deft> mteira: if you use the delete command, they aren't put in the trash
[10:52] <mteira> Deft: I used the delete key.
[10:53] <Deft> if you go to nautilus prefs, there's an option to show a full delete in the menu
[10:53] <mteira> Deft: Anyway, is there any way to erase that files in the hidden folder?
[10:53] <Deft> or else you just need to empty the trash
[10:53] <mteira> Deft: But, there'not in the conventional trash.
[10:53] <Deft> you can show hidden folders, but that's a pretty long away around
[10:54] <mteira> Deft: And my trash applet didn't show files inside.
[10:54] <Deft> hmm, anyway, you can delete fully and skip the trash altogether in future, just enable the option
[10:54] <mteira> Deft: I mean that there should be a graphical-intuitive way to erase that files in the trash of the remobable media.
[10:54] <mteira> removable.
[10:55] <Deft> well, there is if you fully delete, and don't use move to trash... hang on, just going to try
[10:56] <mteira> Deft: I agree with that.
[10:56] <jo> Deft, mteira: something similar -> I moved a text file to my USB stick, and saw it appear two times. The file was named TODO, and there was a "TODO" and "todo" created. Maybe this has something to do with fat or vfat?
[10:56] <mteira> Deft: But, in case I use the trash...
[10:56] <mteira> Deft: I get disoriented. My mp3 player was full, but no file was shown in the file window.
[10:57] <Deft> first try, the deleted files show up in wastebasket normally, you might have found a bug maybe...
[10:58] <mteira> Deft: OK. I'll try again.
[10:58] <mteira> Deft: Perhaps the icon didn't got updated.
[10:58] <mteira> I'm now copying a new directory of songs. When finished I will try to delete a file using the del key.
[10:59] <Slackeerb> Hello I just installed ubuntu, and so fars its the BESt distro ive tryed. Everything seems up to date except firefox. The version of firefox on here is 9.3. Could anyone help me upgrade it? =)
[10:59] <michel_v_> is 'linux-source' the package with the source of the currently running kernel in ubuntu?
[10:59] <crimsun> yes.
[10:59] <mteira> Is firefox 1.0 planned in Ubuntu?
[10:59] <michel_v_> Slackeerb: you aren't missing much, 1.0PR isn't SO MUCH of an improvement :)
[11:00] <jo> Slackeerb: I heard they'll update it before the final release of warty
[11:00] <mteira> I mean in a short time .
[11:00] <mteira> What's the name warty supposed to mean?
[11:00] <phin> warts
[11:00] <Slackeerb> michel_V_,jo: thx. I like 1.0 thow. =). I use to use it on mandrake.
[11:00] <Deft> mteira: it seems to always show in wastebasket for me; you might like to talk to jdub about it though, it could be improved
[11:00] <phin> or you could read the faq like everyone else :P
[11:01] <mwh_> umh I have installed some programs from src into /usr/local .. and I was wondering how I can use the translations for them?
[11:01] <nksen> hm. my installation always hangs up while copying. the first time it hang up with 'xscreensaver', now with 'spdf-common'. the disc is cleanly readable by another OS on the same drive. any suggestions?
[11:01] <Slackeerb> and is there a guide to installing java? I looked around on the wiki site but i got a bit confused. heh
[11:01] <jo> Slackeerb: Debian Sid doesn't have firefox 1.0 PR either, so I haven't tried it yet..
[11:01] <jo> Slackeerb: the Debian java faq maybe?
[11:01] <Deft> in fact...
[11:02] <nksen> err, ubuntu is based on debian?
[11:02] <Deft> jdub: Thoughts on deleting from removable media/drives?
[11:02] <Slackeerb> jo: its pretty cool. It can auto install macromedia flash.
[11:02] <mteira> Deft: OK.
[11:02] <mteira> Deft: Now, I've erase a file into the removable media using the del key.
[11:02] <mteira> Deft: The wastebasket icon didn't change.
[11:02] <jo> Slackeerb: I heard about the plugin improvements indeed. Will have a hard time installing quicktime though :-p
[11:02] <Deft> open it anyway
[11:03] <mteira> Deft: Moving the mouse over the icon, it shows "No items in trash"
[11:03] <mteira> Deft: But opening it, it shows the erased file.
[11:03] <mteira> Deft: So, it seems a bug. A little bug.
[11:03] <Slackeerb> jo: we can just install mplayer. And mplayer plugin. =)
[11:03] <Deft> mteira: yeah, you want to report that?
[11:04] <mteira> Deft: Right clicking on the applet, the Empty trash option is not selectable.
[11:04] <mteira> Deft: Of course.
[11:04] <jo> Slackeerb: I know :-) I was just kidding...
[11:04] <mteira> Deft: I want to help
[11:04] <mteira> Deft: Really like ubuntu.
[11:04] <Deft> cool, would be good if you could see if it affects the nautilus trash icon as well
[11:04] <mteira> Deft: I'm going to fill a bug report.
[11:04] <michel_v_> hmm
[11:04] <Slackeerb> jo: lol k. How would i go about installing mplayer on ubuntu anyways? Its easy on mandrake.
[11:05] <jo> try the debian-marillat repository
[11:05] <michel_v_> can I take a ndiswrapper-source*.deb (from Debian unstable, I guess), and just use it on ubuntu?
[11:05] <jo> http://www.princessleia.com/MPlayer2.html
[11:05] <michel_v_> (it's used to build some kernel modules)
[11:05] <Slackeerb> jo: thx
[11:06] <Deft> mteira: or just tell me the bug number when your done, I can test it out
[11:06] <jo> Slackeerb, np
[11:06] <mteira> Deft: OK.
[11:06] <mteira> Deft: Give me a pair of minutes.
[11:08] <Slackeerb> jo: i dont see the mplayer plugin on here. But mplayer is downloading. =)
[11:09] <empop> does anybody know if you can erase cd-rw's in nautilus?
[11:10] <jo> Slackeerb, try mozilla-mplayer
[11:10] <Slackeerb> jo: thx. The mplayer in apt doesnt support quicktime?
[11:11] <jo> try w32codecs
[11:11] <mteira> Deft: The bug number is 1575
[11:11] <mteira> Deft: Thanks.
[11:11] <Slackeerb> jo: thx again lol
[11:11] <mteira> empop: You can.
[11:12] <jo> Slackeerb, np again :-)
[11:12] <mteira> empop: The problem is that the cd gets mounted once inserted.
[11:12] <mteira> I filed a bug about that.
[11:12] <empop> mteira: yah, i saw that
[11:13] <empop> mteira: though i couldn't see how to unmount without ejecting
[11:13] <tritium> mteira, can't you change your gnome-volume-manager settings to prevent that?
[11:13] <mteira> [Bug 1234]  Automatic mounting interferes with {CD-,DVD{+,-}}RW writing
[11:13] <mteira> empop: Same here.
[11:13] <Deft> tritium: but generally you want it mounted automatically...
[11:14] <Chriffer> But a umount and erase feature wouldnt suck
[11:14] <empop> agreed
[11:14] <mteira> tritium: The idea is that it could be erase anyway.
[11:14] <mteira> tritium: The idea is that it could be erased anyway.
[11:14] <mteira> tritium: Being automatically umounted before, of course.
[11:14] <tritium> I see what you mean.
[11:15] <mteira> BTW, I was able to erase it with a little workaround.
[11:15] <Deft> does it eject when you unmount it manually?
[11:15] <mteira> Deft: Manually? I suppose it doesn't
[11:15] <mteira> Deft: But you have to make it manually.
[11:15] <empop> mteira: please do tell
[11:16] <mteira> empop: What I wanted was to write new content on a yet written CDRW
[11:16] <mteira> empop: I prepared the compilation with no cd in the unit
[11:16] <mteira> empop: So, nautilus-cd-burner asks you for a CD.
[11:16] <phin> openbox rocks with gnome :)
[11:16] <phin> so snappy
[11:16] <mteira> empop: I put the CDRW into
[11:16] <mteira> empop: And it got written.
[11:17] <mteira> empop: But then, there were some problems because it also got mounted.
[11:17] <mteira> empop: And I had to umount it manually.
[11:17] <empop> mteira: yeah it got mounted for me too
[11:17] <jo> snadeaben, the translation team made an error, they'll fix it for Evolution 2.0.1 :-)
[11:17] <michel_v_> ugh
[11:17] <empop> mteira: i can do it manually, but its a pain
[11:18] <vincent> I just finish to install ubuntu it works really well
[11:18] <vincent> thanks to all developers !
[11:18] <vincent> but...
[11:18] <michel_v_> I apt-get linux-source, then when I try to tar -xjvf the resulting .tar.bz2 in /usr/src, it tells me no such file or directory, for every item in the archive
[11:18] <vincent> tou really need to add eagle-usb to main
[11:18] <michel_v_> ah, sudo
[11:18] <vincent> it's a pain to install it by hands
[11:18] <michel_v_> forgot
[11:19] <mwh_> umh synaptics tells me that there is no access to my cdrom repository, which is wird since I have the cdrom mounted
[11:20] <Slackeerb> hey jo when i start mplayer i get this error "New_Face failed. Maybe the font path is wrong. Please supply the text font file (~/.mplayer/subfont.ttf).
[11:20] <Zappa_> anyone care to help me get my wireless pcmcia card working? it's showing up in iwconfig but not ifconfig
[11:20] <WW> I just tried printing the test page for my printer, and the output appears to be shifted down about 3/4 in.
[11:21] <mteira> Oh, no, a bug storm
[11:21] <WW> Any ideas how to adjust this?
[11:21] <Zappa_> i hope you brought your bugbrella
[11:21] <Deft> WW: paper size?
[11:21] <WW> US Letter
[11:21] <mteira> Zappa_: :)
[11:22] <Zappa_> i'm impressed so far
[11:22] <Zappa_> almost everything was configured correctly during install
[11:22] <Zappa_> on my laptop as well
[11:22] <michel_v_> hmm
[11:22] <Deft> Zappa_: is that using ifconfig -a?
[11:22] <michel_v_> I need the currently running kernel's .config
[11:22] <michel_v_> how can I find it in ubuntu?
[11:23] <michel_v_> (I got 'linux-source' but the archive didn't bring a .config)
[11:23] <Deft> WW: what do you get from running paperconf (if it's installed)
[11:23] <ish> /boot/config....
[11:23] <Zappa_> Deft: ifconfig -a and it shows up
[11:23] <subterrific> michel_v_: /boot/config
[11:23] <michel_v_> ah, yeah
[11:23] <michel_v_> I got used to checking in /proc, that's why I forgot /boot :)
[11:23] <Zappa_> Deft: i edited my /etc/network/interfaces and added lines for eth1
[11:23] <michel_v_> thanks
[11:23] <mteira> Oh, a lot of packages got updated.
[11:23] <Deft> Zappa_: it's not configured then; ifconfig <whatever> up will bring it up if it can
[11:23] <Zappa_> Deft: now on boot it just tries to get a DHCP address for a while and fails
[11:23] <mteira> nautilus-cd-burner, libnautilus-2.2, ...
[11:23] <Zappa_> yeah i know but it won't bring it up
[11:23] <subterrific> Zappa_: why didn't you use the gui to setup networking?
[11:24] <WW> Deft: paperconf is not installed.
[11:24] <subterrific> it does everything for you
[11:24] <mteira> Is there any chance to know what changes are included in this versions?
[11:24] <Zappa_> the gui crashes on it
[11:24] <Zappa_> wel, locks up
[11:24] <Zappa_> notebook:/home/andrew# ifconfig eth1 up
[11:24] <Zappa_> SIOCSIFFLAGS: No such file or directory
[11:24] <jo> Slackeerb, try mplayer-fonts
[11:24] <WW> Deft: ... and I don't see paperconf in Synaptic.  Is it part of another package?
[11:24] <Slackeerb> jo: you rule. lol
[11:25] <Deft> WW: probably, my ubuntu box is turned off I'm afraid
[11:25] <jo> Slackeerb, hope it works
[11:25] <Slackeerb> jo: it did. But mozilla-mplayer didnt.
[11:26] <Zappa_> i know something is up because the lights on the card itself aren't lit up
[11:26] <Deft> Zappa_: does iwconfig show everything it should, essid etc?
[11:26] <WW> Deft: looks like libpaper-utils has it
[11:27] <Zappa_> yes it shows all the settings i put in /etc/network/interfaces
[11:27] <jo> Slackeerb, hmm, might have something to do with ubuntu then. You could try making a soft symlink from the mozilla plugins dir to the firefox plugins dir.. Otherwise: no idea :-) These packages will probably get added to universe in the future
[11:27] <Zappa_> eth1      NOT READY!  ESSID:"
[11:28] <Deft> Zappa_: does iwscan list the AP?
[11:28] <Zappa_> etc.
[11:28] <Deft> iwlist scan even
[11:28] <Zappa_> says no scan results
[11:28] <Slackeerb> jo: ok thx. Universe is a collection of ubuntu packages right?
[11:29] <Kamion> Slackeerb: it's a collection of most of Debian main compiled against Ubuntu
[11:29] <Slackeerb> kamion: is this alreadu added to my aptget source?
[11:29] <Slackeerb> already*
[11:29] <jo> Slackeerb, nope...
[11:30] <jo> Just add "universe" after main and restricted in your sources
[11:30] <Deft> Zappa_: you might want to check the driver then; run modprobe -r <driver>, then modrobe <driver> and see if dmesg shows anything
[11:30] <jo> it's easy to do with Syntaptic
[11:30] <Kamion> Slackeerb: it's in /etc/apt/sources.list, but commented out.
[11:30] <Kamion> Slackeerb: note that universe is totally unsupported
[11:30] <Slackeerb> Kamion: whats so special about universe? (sorry for the newbness)
[11:30] <Kamion> (so if it breaks, you get to keep both pieces :-))
[11:31] <Zappa_> ohh
[11:31] <Kamion> Slackeerb: universe is basically the set of everything we didn't decide to take for our smaller set of supported packages
[11:31] <Zappa_> prism54: request_firmware() failed for 'isl3890'
[11:31] <Zappa_> eth1: could not upload firmware ('isl3890')
[11:31] <Zappa_> i think we have an answer
[11:31] <WW> Deft: OK, paperconf is now installed.
[11:31] <Deft> Zappa_: ok, you can download the firmware from prism54.org
[11:31] <Slackeerb> Kamion: so in other words should i leave it be? lol
[11:31] <Zappa_> yeah
[11:32] <jo> Slackeerb, do it on your own risk I would say :-)
[11:32] <Zappa_> deft: thank you for your help
[11:32] <mteira> See you. Thanks for all, folks.
[11:32] <WW> Deft: ... and running paperconf print a4.  Also, /etc/papersize contains a4.
[11:33] <Slackeerb> jo: you guys r confuseing me. I dont understand lol. If i do add universe to my apt source will I have the lastest packages or what?
[11:34] <jo> Slackeerb, you'll have the packages Ubuntu doesn't officially support
[11:34] <Kamion> Slackeerb: it's nothing to do with latest, more "different"
[11:34] <Deft> WW: not sure that adds up to 3/4 of an inch in any way, but it's worth changing; there's probably a nice GUI way to do
[11:34] <jo> That includes some of the packages from Sid yes
[11:34] <Zappa_> Deft: do you know where I'm supposed to put the firmware file?
[11:35] <Slackeerb> jo.Kamion: im going to just leave it be. My system is runnign great. =)
[11:35] <jo> Ok, i'll probably let Kamion explain, I just installed Ubuntu the day before yesterday :-D
[11:35] <Deft> /usr/lib/hotplug/firmware I think, there should be instructions
[11:36] <Slackeerb> Kamion: is there a ubuntu guide to installing java?
[11:36] <Kamion> Slackeerb: re universe, see http://www.ubuntulinux.org/ubuntu/components/document_view
[11:37] <Kamion> Slackeerb: not that I know of yet
[11:38] <Zappa_> haha
[11:38] <Zappa_> it connected to my neighbours wireless network
[11:38] <Zappa_> stupid thing :x
[11:39] <WW> Deft: Changing /etc/papersize to letter didn't fix it.
[11:40] <jeedee> anyone flawlessly installed ubuntu on a laptop?
[11:40] <Zappa_> i only had two minor issues
[11:40] <Deft> WW: the little printer applet thing should be able to change paper size, just right click on the printer icon
[11:41] <Chriffer> Yes my laptop works just fine
[11:42] <jo> Anyone tried on an Acer laptop?
[11:42] <jeedee> On a emachines laptop it has been trouble after trouble
[11:43] <WW> Deft: little printer applet thing?  I'm looking at Computer->System Configuration->Printing, and then editing the properties of the printer.
[11:43] <Deft> yeh
[11:43] <WW> Deft: I've selected US Letter in the tabs Paper and Advanced.
[11:43] <Mitario> hey everyone
[11:43] <jeedee> Im not really lucky, grub not working without config fixes on the laptop, then random freezes, grub hangs at loading stage on desktop and kernel not found on another desktop
[11:44] <jo> jeedee: aww.. Have you had issues with "plain" Debian too?
[11:44] <jeedee> Nope
[11:44] <Zappa_> reboot
[11:44] <jeedee> I guess it's all about grub, I might install grub from another distro then load ubuntu without installing a bootloader
[11:50] <plovs> jeedee, or try lilo
[11:50] <jeedee> I need to find a live cd that let me install lilo since my floppy drive is dead :)
[11:50] <schweeb> jeedee: use a knoppix disk to put grub on the mbr
[11:50] <schweeb> or sysresccd or similar
[11:51] <jeedee> ok thank you
[11:56] <jo> I'm going to sleep, bye!


[07:57] <DJones> Flannel: Yes I did, although I had to drop the nick and then reregister with a different email address
[07:58] <Flannel> DJones: yeah, I just did the drop-re-do thing to no avail... yet.
[07:58] <Flannel> I just tried changing my email address... I guess if I don't get an email soon I'll drop again
[07:59] <Flannel> Hopefully the re-email on this second account doesn't burn that email into this limbo for an actual registration, haha.  Running out of real email addresses.
[08:00] <DJones> I messaged Niko to ask about getting the nick dropped which somebody else had registered but not confirmed which was sorted, then after a 2nd drop, I got the email
[08:01] <DJones> Then got a cloak
[08:01] <Flannel> Maybe I just need to drop a few more times.
[08:01] <Flannel> drop, wait 30 seconds, then plug it back in.  That's the standard fix, right?
[08:02] <DJones> Could just be servers are overloaded with most of freenode registering on libera
[08:03] <Flannel> I asked niko and he said not really.  Emails should be going out in a reasonable timeframe
[08:05] <Unit193> Unless your email prover is blocking them or sending them to spam.
[08:06] <Flannel> I didn't think I had that problem, but yeah, I guess so.
[08:06] <DJones> My original email address that didn't receive the email was a<EMAIL_ADDRESS>which forwards to a gmail account, 2nd time I just used the gmail address with no problem
[08:07] <Flannel> I'd really hate to use a junk email for this, but yeah, I guess gmail might be my last resort.
[08:07] <Unit193> What's your primary?  If you'd rather not say, or say in PM, that's fine.
[08:08] <Flannel> It's just my name. But that's not the one I was using first, which was an ISP one.
[08:09] <Flannel> But that's the one I'm trying now.  So we'll see!  Sorta ironic that the emails I pay for don't work, but the email I don't will.


[09:01] <dooferlad> voidspace: hangout?
[09:03] <voidspace> dooferlad: omw
[09:27] <mgz> angleterrettes, someone free to look at my collection of branches changing yaml deps? see bug 1504821 comments
[09:27] <mup> Bug #1504821: Please switch dependency from gopkg.in/yaml.v1 to gopkg.in/yaml.v2 <juju-core:In Progress by gz> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1504821>
[09:27] <mgz> rogpeppe: maybe if you're about? ^
[09:28] <rogpeppe> mgz: will do
[09:28] <rogpeppe> mgz: we've found that upgrade problem BTW
[09:29] <mgz> rogpeppe: ace, both halves?
[09:29] <rogpeppe> mgz: yeah
[09:29] <rogpeppe> mgz: not easy to fix though
[09:30] <rogpeppe> mgz: we're having a hangout about it now if you want to come and join the fun :)
[09:30] <mgz> ooh, ooh, invite me!
[09:31] <rogpeppe> mgz: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/canonical.com/gogogo?authuser=1
[09:31] <rogpeppe> (or authuser=0)
[09:33] <mattyw> mgz, I'm actually semi through that bug (#1504821) for the chicago cubs branch - shall I carry it on or are you happy to carry on?
[09:33] <mup> Bug #1504821: Please switch dependency from gopkg.in/yaml.v1 to gopkg.in/yaml.v2 <juju-core:In Progress by gz> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1504821>
[09:33] <voidspace> rogpeppe: I need to create a tempdir for a test and then remove it on test completion
[09:33] <voidspace> rogpeppe: I can do that with ioutil
[09:33] <voidspace> rogpeppe: but IIRC there is a test suite method to do it, and I can't seem to find it
[09:34] <voidspace> rogpeppe: do you know it?
[09:34] <mgz> mattyw: I think our work will be complimentary
[09:34] <mattyw> mgz, I'm only doing it in core - not any of the deps
[09:35] <mattyw> mgz, if you're happy for me to carry on I'll carry on :)
[09:35] <voidspace> mattyw: mgz: ^^ do you know of a test suite method for creating a temp dir for a test?
[09:35] <mgz> mattyw: right, I started at doing all the deps
[09:35] <voidspace> I'm sure there is one, I just can't find it
[09:35] <mgz> voidspace: I think we have a few...
[09:35] <mattyw> voidspace, I don't remember the name - but it's in gocheck
[09:35] <voidspace> mgz: mattyw: heh, thanks
[09:35] <mattyw> voidspace, https://godoc.org/gopkg.in/check.v1#C.MkDir
[09:35] <mattyw> voidspace, is that what you're after?
[09:36] <voidspace> mattyw: awesome, thanks
[09:36] <mattyw> voidspace, you're very welcome
[09:36] <voidspace> mattyw: just looking
[09:36] <voidspace> I expect it's exactly what I'm after
[09:36] <voidspace> mattyw: yep
[09:36] <voidspace> ah, after the *suite* finishes running
[09:36] <voidspace> well, for the suite would be fine
[09:37] <voidspace> just need to modify the test
[09:38] <voidspace> looking at our test suite, we use that method "per test" anyway
[09:38] <voidspace> I guess it doesn't matter
[09:40] <mattyw> voidspace, I was sure there was another one - I'm just having a look
[10:04] <mattyw> mgz, just to confirm then - migrate to yaml.v2 in master first right?
[10:06] <mgz> mattyw: yes, and your life will be a little easier when some of these other dep change branches land
[10:07] <mattyw> mgz, awesome stuff, thanks
[10:07] <mattyw> mgz, I'll be starting that in the next few minutes
[14:01] <wwitzel3> katco: ping
[15:51] <mattyw> mgz, ping?
[15:51] <mgz> mattyw: hey
[15:52] <mattyw> mgz, hey, you might be able to ignore me now actually
[15:52] <mattyw> mgz, was looking at this https://github.com/juju/httprequest/pull/35/files
[15:52] <mattyw> mgz, the json body is because juju/testing was updated it looks like
[15:53] <mgz> mattyw: and the go 1.2 vs later thing
[15:54] <mattyw> mgz, I see
[15:54] <mattyw> mgz, LGTM
[15:54] <mgz> I could also have updated testing to always set content-type for post, even if no content has been supplied
[15:54] <mgz> but this seems like it's making the test more realistic and avoiding the golang bug fine
[15:54] <mattyw> mgz, any idea what's happened here? https://github.com/juju/cmd/pull/22
[15:55] <mattyw> mgz, again ignore me
[15:55] <mattyw> mgz, I thought it had been accepted but not merged
[15:55] <mgz> mattyw: I had to do futzing with the gating jobs
[15:55] <mgz> because I made them hostile to dependency changes
[15:56] <mattyw> mgz, 2 days ago - were you doing it saturday?
[15:56] <mgz> in my defense, it was tipping it down outside the hotel all morning
[15:56] <mattyw> mgz, ah yes - at the sprint
[16:11] <mgz> rogpeppe: is the intention of godeps -t to get all testing deps, or just those of the given package?
[16:12] <rogpeppe> mgz: all testing deps of the named packages
[16:12] <rogpeppe> mgz: so it won't get testing deps of deps that aren't in the original package list
[16:12] <rogpeppe> mgz: (because I found that's almost never what you want)
[16:18] <mgz> rogpeppe: yup, that sounds sane to me.
[16:19] <mgz> so, with the current stuff landed, plus charm which I'll have a quick look at again, should be able to do the remaining charm* bits
[16:19] <rogpeppe> mgz: tbh I'd prefer it now if -t was the default
[16:19] <rogpeppe> mgz: i don't think i've ever not wanted to update testing deps too
[16:19] <mgz> rogpeppe: yeah, that surprised me when I was updating the other day, forgot about the nuance
[16:22] <wwitzel3> katco: ping
[16:22] <mgz> (^was waiting on natefinch for lumberjack landing, and it's US holiday today, but it's only a dep for the tests, not the project, so other dep updates are fine)
[16:22] <mgz> wwitzel3: was she swapping today? or just holidaying?
[16:22] <wwitzel3> mgz: thought she was online today, but maybe not, yeah
[16:27] <mup> Bug #1456659 opened: Juju bootstraps a machine but cannot SSH to it <ci> <intermittent-failure> <juju-core:Triaged> <juju-core 1.23:Triaged> <juju-core 1.24:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1456659>
[16:40] <wwitzel3> :q
[17:09] <rogpeppe> mgz: i've proposed https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/3485 which should fix the bug, although i haven't had time to actually try the upgrade for real yet: https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/3485
[17:11] <mgz> rogpeppe: I'm fine with merging it after review and letting CI find out if it doesn't blow things up any more
[17:18] <mup> Bug #1505309 opened: apiserver: pinger can access state before upgrade has completed <juju-core:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1505309>
[17:21] <mup> Bug #1505309 changed: apiserver: pinger can access state before upgrade has completed <juju-core:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1505309>
[17:27] <mup> Bug #1505309 opened: apiserver: pinger can access state before upgrade has completed <juju-core:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1505309>
[23:34] <mup> Bug #1505435 opened: option to enable --unsafe-caching for uvt-kvm <juju-core:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1505435>


[05:36] <cpaelzer> good morning
[05:44] <pitti> Good morning
[08:59] <rayzinnz> 'ello
[09:24] <hikiko> rbasak ping :)
[09:25] <hikiko> new questions on the sru
[09:26] <hikiko> that's what I did so far: https://ufuntu.wordpress.com/2016/04/21/sru-process/ password:trusty used the tools you suggested, quilt and dch and I think (hope) I'm ready to create the new package
[09:27] <hikiko>  and go to step 5 here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#Procedure
[09:27] <hikiko> the question is
[09:27] <hikiko> which tools I need to create a package?
[09:28] <hikiko> and how should I name it?
[09:28] <rbasak> hikiko: that looks good so far.
[09:28] <seb128> hikiko, did you check with Trevinho? compiz is managed by CI landing
[09:28] <seb128> not normal uploads
[09:29] <rbasak> seb128: including for an SRU?
[09:29] <seb128> rbasak, I was looking at the most recent one, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/1:<IP_ADDRESS>+14.04.20150313-0ubuntu1
[09:29] <seb128> the CI bot is the uploader
[09:29] <seb128> so I guess so
[09:30] <rbasak> Well that makes life quite a bit harder for hikiko :-(
[09:30] <hikiko> no worries :) I want to learn the full process
[09:30] <hikiko> seb128, I didn't I'm now learning the SRU process
[09:31] <rbasak> I don't know the CI process.
[09:31] <rbasak> seb128: can you help hikiko?
[09:31] <hikiko> also, could you tell me the non-CI process?
[09:31] <seb128> hikiko, can you talk to Trevinho?
[09:31] <seb128> or maybe do that with him next week?
[09:31] <rbasak> Or would it be sufficient for hikiko to put a debdiff in the bug and let a sponsor sort it out?
[09:31] <hikiko> btw seb128 I've seen in the changelog that chris townsend had sru some changes
[09:31] <seb128> rbasak, hikiko, well for things going through CI landing you just need a merge request with the change
[09:32] <rbasak> "just"
[09:32] <hikiko> it's not only the CI bot I think
[09:32] <pitti> we do SRUs via the CI train too?
[09:32] <seb128> pitti, of course
[09:32] <seb128> why not?
[09:32] <hikiko> Trevinho, is in Prague :D
[09:33] <seb128> well, wait monday
[09:33] <seb128> ?
[09:33] <hikiko> alright :)
[09:33] <pitti> I just don't think I've ever seen one
[09:33] <seb128> you are coming next week right?
[09:33] <hikiko> yes
[09:33] <pitti> presumably because most touchy stuff lands in the overlay PPA
[09:33] <seb128> pitti, I just gave an url
[09:33] <seb128> pitti, all unity landings are done this way
[09:33] <seb128> unity7
[09:35] <hikiko> ok but just out of curiosity
[09:35] <Laney> The only difference for the SRU team person is that it's a copy (with binaries) in the queue instead of a source upload
[09:35] <hikiko> if I had to SRU it myself
[09:35] <hikiko> what would be the next step?
[09:36] <hikiko> how would I create a package and how would I name it?
[09:36] <rbasak> hikiko: if not following the CI process, you'd adjust the version number, run "dch -r -D trusty ''" to set the metadata in the debian/changelog file.
[09:36] <rbasak> Then run "dpkg-buildpackage -us -uc -S -nc -d" to create a new .dsc and .diff.gz file for the new version.
[09:37] <rbasak> An uploader would then be able to use the generated .changes file to upload.
[09:37] <rbasak> If you need sponsorship, you run "debdiff <old>.dsc <new>.dsc" to create a debdiff, attach that to the bug, and subscribe ~ubuntu-sponsors to the bug.
[09:37] <rbasak> I've ignored testing here. You can use sbuild to build a test package locally.
[09:38] <rbasak> Or upload to a PPA for testing.
[09:38] <rbasak> So you'd done most of the hard part already for the usual process I think.
[09:39] <hikiko> and then everything else is done on launchpad I guess
[09:39] <hikiko> upload the package etc
[09:41] <hikiko> rbasak, thanks a lot!
[09:41] <hikiko> I'm going to note these steps just in case and wait for monday to ask Trevinho
[09:44] <rbasak> 12:29 <rbasak> "Yakkety Yak"
[09:45] <rbasak> Thursday, April 21st, 2016 "Yakkety yakkety yakkety yakkety yakkety yakkety yakkety yakkety yak. Naturally"
[09:45]  * rbasak isn't sure if that was a coincidence, the obvious choice, or what.
[09:59] <Odd_Bloke> ALL HAIL RBASAK
[09:59] <Odd_Bloke> cjwatson: wgrant: FYI, there are 16.04 powerpc images in http://cloud-images.ubuntu.com/daily/streams/v1/com.ubuntu.cloud:daily:download.json now.
[10:00] <wgrant> Odd_Bloke: <3
[10:00] <Odd_Bloke> cjwatson: wgrant: I don't believe that infinity has had time to test them since we were building from a PPA, but they shouldn't have changed. since he last told me they were booting.
[10:00] <wgrant> Booting is good.
[10:00] <Odd_Bloke> wgrant: Do you pull from daily streams, or release streams?
[10:01] <Odd_Bloke> (Because they aren't currently showing up in release streams, and I'm trying to work out highly to prioritise fixing that :p)
[10:01] <wgrant> Odd_Bloke: Do I look like a stable OS sort of person to you?
[10:01] <wgrant> We've been tracking wily dailies for a while.
[10:01] <wgrant> No reason not to use xenial dailies now :)
[10:01] <Odd_Bloke> OK, cool.
[10:01] <Odd_Bloke> I'll throw fixing that on our backlog then.
[10:02] <wgrant> Thanks!
[10:09] <caribou> Laney: would installing all the reverse deps of a backported package considered adequate testing for a backport request ?
[10:11] <caribou> Laney: I'm testing a script that installs each of the rdepends in a container where the binaries to be backported are installed & checking if it installs correctly
[10:11] <caribou> curious to know if this would be considered sufficient
[10:14] <pitti> rbasak: btw, would you mind having a look at my response in bug 1569434 ? If this is real, it'd drive me nuts :)
[10:25] <Laney> caribou: Just /installing/ doesn't sound enough to make sure that they aren't busted
[10:30] <caribou> Laney: apache2 has more than 100 rdepends, you would test all of them manually ?
[10:30] <rbasak> pitti: I can try to reproduce again.
[10:33] <Laney> caribou: In this case, does installing enable them?
[10:33] <Laney> and restart apache to get them used?
[10:33] <caribou> Laney: I'll check the logs once all of them run but most of them do, yes
[10:35] <caribou> Laney: I think tests must be specific to each backport context though
[10:37] <caribou> Laney: but in that specific case, that's how I ran over a know issue & fixed it : LP: #1286882
[10:38]  * caribou is just trying to get a better understanding of the backport requirements
[11:33] <Laney> pitti: do you need to teach autopkgtest about yakkety?
[11:36] <mgedmin> welp, update-manager (15.10 -> 16.04) froze after unpacking gir1.2-atspi-2.0 and "processing triggers for man-db"
[11:36] <mgedmin> says it's preparing to configure python-cairo, but it's idle
[11:36] <mgedmin> pstree shows it has one zombie child (dpkg)
[11:37] <mgedmin> strace shows it's bloked trying to write "pmstatus:libde265-0:16.8172:Inst..." to a pipe on fd 14
[11:40] <mgedmin> ah, it's an internal pipe used to communicate between threads?  lsof shows that it's the upgrader itself that has the other end open for reading
[11:41] <mgedmin> the GUI window is not responding to events either
[11:42] <mgedmin> ... I might've hit Ctrl+Shift+I to open the GTK+ inspector
[11:42] <mgedmin> while trying to see if it uses GTK2 or GTK3
[12:07] <pitti> Laney: yes, in the sense that I need to update distro-info-data
[12:07] <pitti> Laney: also, retracers etc.
[12:08] <Son_Goku> ah, the joys of using a fresh linux distro release :/
[13:15] <seb128> dpm, pitti,  I've the feeling we have been there before but any idea why evolution-3.18.mo are missing from langpacks? it makes evolution untranslated in xenial :-/ ( (bug #1566750)
[13:17] <seb128> mdeslaur, do you/security team want to be notified about regressions due to the samba trusty security update? and in which way (bug assign? subscribe?) bug #1571854 is another of those
[13:19] <mdeslaur> seb128: you can tell me about them
[13:20] <mdeslaur> seb128: that particular one is problematic though as I don't believe there's an openchange package that actually works with samba 4.3
[13:22] <seb128> indeed not
[13:22] <seb128> we should at least delete -mapi
[13:22] <mdeslaur> seb128: thanks for pointing them out, I'll see if there's any other way to fix it when I get a minute
[13:22] <seb128> or turn it into a "sorry, being removed"
[13:22] <seb128> thanks
[13:27] <TJ-> any ideas why 16.04 "apt-get install --no-install-recommends" breaks Unity desktop, in that there is no 'System' menu-icon, and Dash is unable to find any applications via navigation or via a typed search. Also, All Settings > Universal Access > typing > on-screen keyboard doesn't actually provide the on-screen keyboard, and there's no nm-applet shown
[13:43] <seb128> TJ-, that command shouldn't do anything? or do you mean starting from a base system and installing the desktop without recommends ... that might lead to some component missing yes, don't do that
[13:49] <TJ-> seb128: Yes. I did a debootstrap install for a 4GiB Flash drive, used that to get the basic desktop, and discovered many issues with missing basic functionality
[13:50] <seb128> don't do that
[13:50] <seb128> download the iso and dd it to the stick
[13:51] <TJ-> seb128: can't; I need an installation on the USB
[13:52] <TJ-> my point is "--no-install-recommends" shouldn't leave out vital parts of the interface
[13:53] <dobey> they aren't "vital"
[13:54] <TJ-> dobey: I disagree. there being no system icon, no nm-applet, no access to applications via dash are pretty serious deficiencies
[13:56] <TJ-> I discovered this whilst trying to workaround the broken bluetooth GUI PIN-entry agent which prevents pairing with external keyboard/trackpad... have to do it via CLI with bluetoothctl
[13:57] <seb128> TJ-, you put them as depends and users with no bluetooth complain that they can't remove the bluetooth components
[13:57] <seb128> can't win
[13:57] <TJ-> seb128: I'm not on about BT with regard to recommends - that is a separate issue
[13:58] <rbasak> I think it's reasonable to QA only the default (including recommends case).
[13:58] <TJ-> seb128: even with all the BT GUI components installed on a *full* install from ISO, gui bluetooth PIN agent is broken, never works,
[13:58] <rbasak> If there are specific recommends that should be depends, then...patches welcome?
[13:58] <seb128> +1
[13:59] <TJ-> First time I've used Unity in about 6 years, surprised its not more mature
[13:59] <seb128> ?
[13:59] <rbasak> Otherwise you're basically requiring the doubling of QA effort for what?
[14:00] <seb128> TJ-, you call it not mature because you did some weirdy install, ignored recommends and then are complaining it's incomplete? or is that an orthogonal statement?
[14:00] <rbasak> You're welcome to hack your system but when you break it you get to keep the pieces.
[14:00]  * dobey confused
[14:00] <rbasak> If you want mature, don't do weird things.
[14:00] <TJ-> this isn't hacking this is a regression
[14:01] <dobey> what is a regression?
[14:01] <TJ-> Bluetooth *used* to work fine; was broken several releases ago  bug 1490347
[14:01] <dobey> the bt agent has nothing to do with unity
[14:01] <seb128> TJ-, that has nothing to do with unity
[14:01] <dobey> and i can pair with devices that use PINs just fine
[14:01] <seb128> TJ-, you seem confused?
[14:01] <TJ-> dobey: bet you can't!
[14:02] <TJ-> dobey: bet you *can* pair with devices that use *passphrase* ... because bluez ripped out the *pin* support
[14:02] <dobey> TJ-: except for the many times i've done it in the many years i've been using ubuntu
[14:02] <dobey> you must be confused
[14:02] <seb128> TJ-, I doubt bluez removed pin support
[14:03] <dobey> if bluez removed pin support you wouldn't be able to use bluetoothctl either
[14:04] <TJ-> I was deep in the source-code last year trying to fix it and the related kernel bugs breaking other devices, but had to give up because it was too involved and I had other things to do. the kernel bug is bug 1491988
[14:05] <dobey> well i just paired a headset in xenial with no problem
[14:06] <seb128> TJ-, k, so there is a kernel bug, it's different from being bluez ripping out support
[14:06] <dobey> had no problem pairing my obd-ii scanner in 14.04, so i expect no problem in 16.04 either
[14:11] <TJ-> dobey: yes, headsets and so on seem to work but anything that has to enter the PIN in response to the PC fails. E.g. in the GUI for BT, when you discover a device, there's an option to select the PIN method (0000, 1111, 1234, custom) ... none of those will work with the keyboard even if typing them blind (because there's no GUI prompt for the number as there used to be). Using the bluetoothctl it
[14:11] <TJ-> generates a 6-digit PIN. The thing is, although we call it PIN this is actually using the underlying BT 'passphrase' authentication.
[14:12] <TJ-> I'll dig my notes out on the debugging I did last year on this, I think I also logged some additional bug reports but will have to track them down
[14:12] <seb128> TJ-, anyway on the unity issue, I guess it would be fine to move the files/applications lens from Recommends to Depends, feel free to propose a patch for that or to open a bug
[14:13] <TJ-> seb128: is that why I had no applications listed? so I can manually install that to get over the current impass?
[14:13] <seb128> TJ-, I guess so
[14:13] <seb128> unity-lens-applications
[14:14] <dobey> and indicator-session
[14:15] <dobey> should probably be Depends of ubuntu-desktop
[14:15] <seb128> and onboard and
[14:15] <TJ-> seb128: I shall do.. currrently fighting to get everything working on a 2-in-1 Asus T300chi (touchscreen tablet/laptop hybrid with docking BT keyboard. Not being able to have the BT come up at greeter-time is currently a major issue so using a USB connected keyboard, or ssh in (now I've created a wifi profile in nmtui-edit) :)
[14:15] <seb128> network-manager-gnome
[14:15] <dobey> i don't think onboard should be depends
[14:15] <TJ-> seb128: dobey thanks, I'll install those (already did n-m-g and ubuntu-keyboard - for the on-screen keyboard backup)
[14:16] <dobey> i'm not sure ubuntu-keyboard is the one you want for that
[14:16] <TJ-> Full install has all those
[14:16] <TJ-> dobey: hmmm, really? it looked the most likely candidate!
[14:16] <seb128> TJ-, ubuntu-keyboard is the one used on ubuntu touch, onboard is the desktop one
[14:16] <dobey> TJ-: i think onboard is the one used for ubuntu-desktop
[14:17] <dobey> well, you could just install unity8-desktop-session-mir instead, and use unity8 instead of unity7, then ubuntu-keyboard would make sense perhaps :)
[14:17] <TJ-> dobey: ahhh! OK, I think you're correct since enabling on-screen keyboard still didn't show anything!
[14:18] <TJ-> dobey: oh, is that what it's for?
[14:18] <dobey> i wonder if indicator-network is a usable replacement for nm-gnome now
[14:18] <dobey> TJ-: yeah, ubuntu-keyboard is the phone/tablet (unity8) osk
[14:18] <dobey> also, ubuntu-keyboard is in universe
[14:19] <dobey> no way it would be installed on the ubuntu-desktop iso :)
[14:19] <TJ-> ouch! without --no-install-recommends onboard wants to install tonnes of packages, including a mass of Perl!
[14:19] <dobey> lol
[14:24] <TJ-> right.. I needed 2 of the onboard recommends: gir1.2* ... now the greeter shows the keyboard, athough as a shrunken image in a sub-area of the bottom of the screen
[14:26] <seb128> TJ-, you might want onboard-data
[14:27] <TJ-> yes, got that earlier, thanks
[14:27] <TJ-> this is what the greeter shows: https://iam.tj/projects/misc/ubuntu-1604-greeter-onboard-keyboard.jpg
[14:28] <TJ-> once the user is logged-in the keyboard fills the entire area
[14:31] <seb128> unsure why it does that
[14:32] <TJ-> and this is after log-in, showing the empty dash 'applications' tab, and the lack of system icon top-right, plus onscreen keyboard
[14:32] <TJ-> https://iam.tj/projects/misc/ubuntu-1604-user-onboard-keyboard.jpg
[14:33] <de-facto> Hey guys im fighting to compile http://packages.ubuntu.com/de/xenial/easystroke via "apt-get source easystroke" then "apt build-dep easystroke" then inside the source dir "dpkg-buildpackage" it gives me this error that i also found in https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1302917
[14:34] <TJ-> ahh, and noticed that there's no icon to control the onscreen keyboard
[14:34] <de-facto> Does someone have an idea how the ubuntu repo managed to compile this?
[14:34] <cjwatson> It probably built at some point in the past, just not with the current state
[14:35] <cjwatson> It failed in our latest build test
[14:35] <cjwatson> But that doesn't mean we throw away the existing binaries
[14:35] <cjwatson> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/easystroke indicates that it was built last August
[14:36] <cjwatson> (https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/easystroke/0.6.0-0ubuntu5/+build/7771352)
[14:37] <seb128> TJ-, you probably lack indicator-application as well
[14:37] <seb128> for the onboard indicator
[14:37] <de-facto> cjwatson yeah that is what i suspected, some incompatible changes in the toolchain, im trying to build it because it has some gfx glitches and also a bug which prevents it from storing its settings correctly. First i want to be able to build the original ubuntu package then upgrade the sources from https://github.com/thjaeger/easystroke to fix those issues (he did not raise the version number unfortunately)
[14:37] <TJ-> seb128: thank-you seb128 I'll chase that one down. I was about to do a diff between the (full) SDD install and the USB image to figure it out.
[14:37] <seb128> yw
[14:40] <TJ-> hehehe and with a 'restart lightdm' greeter doesn't show the onboard keyboard, only the lower blacked-out area :)
[14:40] <TJ-> just got to find the system-menu indicator icon now
[14:41] <de-facto> any ideas what i could play around with to fix the error ctions.cc: In constructor 'TreeViewMulti::TreeViewMulti()':   ctions.cc:57:39: error: group' is not a member of 'sigc'   get_selection()->set_select_function(sigc::group(&negate, sigc::ref(pending)));
[14:41] <de-facto> i guess its something from libsigc++
[14:45] <LocutusOfBorg> de-facto, libsigc++ version??
[14:46] <LocutusOfBorg> you might want to test the new upstream release (in debian)
[14:47] <de-facto> LocutusOfBorg libsigc++-2.0-dev Version 2.6.2-1 on Xenial release currently
[14:48] <LocutusOfBorg> maybe 2.8.0 works=
[14:48] <LocutusOfBorg> did it worked before=
[14:49] <de-facto> i used to compile it on previous versions of ubuntu (dont remember the exact versions though)
[14:50] <LocutusOfBorg> seems that the group has been removed between 2.4 and 2.6
[14:50] <LocutusOfBorg> https://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/collab-maint/libsigc++-2.0.git/commit/?id=fa41e72a2a68239a84839e59f763e0f49c0ca098
[14:50] <LocutusOfBorg> - * @deprecated Use C++11 lambda expressions or %std::bind() instead of libsigc++ lambdas and sigc::group().
[14:50] <LocutusOfBorg> I think you did get a lot of warnings with the previous release
[14:52] <de-facto> could very well be the case, i dont remember exactly anymore, but i got a working binary on previous versions of ubuntu
[15:11] <dobey> TJ-: indicator-session is the "system menu" indicator
[15:18] <TJ-> dobey: thanks... I've been walking the rdepends/depends paths to try to figure out why it was missed
[18:35] <Unit193> slangasek: Got time for a quick PM?
[18:54] <slangasek> Unit193: prime ministers are never quick
[18:55] <Unit193> Nope, certainly not.  Thankfully, I'm referring to a private message.
[21:04] <mapreri> pitti: I'm looking at http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/packages/p/pbuilder/ and i just noticed the 'i' sign points to tracker.d.o.  I guess this is fine and cool for the debian instance of debci, but probably shouldn't ubuntu link the launchpad page instead? (actually, I'd love to have both links to tracker.d.o and lp)
[23:08] <bdmurray> lamont: Could you have a look at bug 1552801?