[20:44] <Rinchen> beuno, ping
[20:50] <Rinchen> jenda, if you see beuno please have him ping me please


[00:08] <canthus13> Heh.
[00:09] <gilch> paultag: you around?
[00:10] <dmcglone> gilch: what are we? Chopped liver? ;-)
[00:10] <gilch> dmcglone: not at all. they are waiting for paultag over in ubuntu-classroom
[00:13] <dmcglone> Just messin with ya man :-)
[00:28] <canthus13> dmcglone: I thought you were more like haggis.
[00:28] <Cheri703> today has gone sooooo dang slowly
[00:29] <dmcglone> ewww canthus13
[00:40] <canthus13> Cheri703: no kidding.... This last 30 minutes at work are dragging by like christmas eve when you're 10 years old. :(
[00:41] <Cheri703> I have to go to an early (for me) meeting tomorrow, not looking forward to it, but OMG it's not even 8pm...I'm SO bored. but I'm looking at/reading about/lusting over velomobiles right now, so I'm keeping myself moderately amused. we also watched back to the future tonight :)
[04:47] <paultag> Hey Ohio!
[04:51] <canthus13> eh?
[04:54] <paultag> Heyya canthus13
[18:16] <BiosElement> Yo paultag
[18:16] <BiosElement> +10 for starting the elections without my having to nag you
[18:16] <paultag> haha
[18:16] <BiosElement> I was meaning to do that this week actually ;P
[18:17] <Cheri703> I might have another reloco person!
[18:17] <paultag> :D Cheri703
[18:17] <Cheri703> Econ professor at local college
[18:17] <BiosElement> Yay Cheri703
[18:17] <BiosElement> Oh hey meeting on the 27th
[18:18] <Cheri703> what kind of meeting?
[18:18] <BiosElement> Whoever added that, ship that to the mailing list in advance too. >.<
[18:18] <BiosElement> Some of us never check the topic
[18:18] <BiosElement> Cheri703, No idea
[18:18] <Cheri703> hmm...ok
[18:19] <Cheri703> it says 10/27
[18:19] <BiosElement> Ahh my bad then hah
[18:19] <Cheri703> and for some reason at the end 11/17/09 ?
[18:19] <BiosElement> paultag, update the bloody topic. >.< Like "Electio0ns in progress"
[18:48] <paultag> wtf is this
[18:48] <paultag> good 'nuff for goverment work
[18:59] <thafreak> So, anyone want to weigh in on the Novell deal?
[19:02] <greyfox-> thafreak: I haven't had a chance to pick up on all the details yet, but I think this does not bode well.
[19:10] <canthus13> Novell deal?
[19:10] <thafreak> Novell is being purchased
[19:10] <thafreak> and somehow. Microsoft is gobbling up like 882 patents...
[19:13] <canthus13> Bah.
[19:16]  * canthus13 smells more kernel rewrites in the future....
[19:18]  * canthus13 wonders just which patents are being sold to MS's little patent trolling consortium...
[19:21] <deejoe> someone should do up a bison in SuSE lizard colors, or something
[19:21] <deejoe> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attachmate#CEO_animal_cruelty_case
[19:33] <canthus13> That's an iffy case.
[19:33] <canthus13> In another state that would likely have been a non-issue due to differing range laws.
[19:33] <canthus13> In montana, it's perfectly legal to shoot livestock that wanders onto your property.
[19:34]  * canthus13 notes that there are constant worries about Yellowstone's bison wandering off the park property and being shot by ranchers.
[19:45] <deejoe> such jolly ranchers
[19:49] <canthus13> Bison carry brucellosis, which causes cattle to miscarry.  It's quite defensive.


[01:20] <Cheesehead> Too bad bluedude left...I was going to answer his question. ('up' is a preposition)
[19:23] <h00k> Oi.
[19:26] <h00k> Time to start seriously talking Release Parties
[19:33] <h00k> the Linux Foundation was also breeched :( Please check any passwords you may have used there.
[23:57] <Cheesehead> h00k: What about release parties? (I'm still partied-out from the Global Jam)
[23:58] <Cheesehead> If somebody wants to set up something in the Milwaukee area, I'll show up.
[23:58] <Cheesehead> I'll even be nice.
[23:58] <Cheesehead> I'll even help./


[15:54] <blackboxsw> Hey folks, meena touched base as she's drawing up a significant  effort for BSD support that includes trying to close out on all the rough edges for networking refactor and better integrating BSD network config with cloud-init. https://scratchpad.pkgbase.live/XZtaQUk-ToSsnaIpnQa6tQ?view#timeline
[15:56] <blackboxsw> Basically she's captured a number of the open work items of our https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/blob/main/WIP-ONGOING-REFACTORIZATION.rst  and it'll help us close out on a multi-year discussion at this point that should make cloud-init's story with network config more cohesive across multiple distros
[15:57] <blackboxsw> wanted to give the community a heads up that this work looks like it will be committed to from BSD side of things, so if we can lend a hand in reviews over the next few months we should see a lot of network-related refactor coming down the PR pipeline
[15:58] <blackboxsw> if interested in being involved,please take time to review the work breakdown proposal (at scratchpad link above)  and voice any concerns or gaps in either here or in comments.
[16:40] <cjp256> nice!
[17:15] <blackboxsw> holmanb: good to merge your PR 1675 for the release of cloud-init 22.3 into Ubuntu kinetic when CI passes.
[17:15] <blackboxsw> I'll dput it once landed
[17:21] <holmanb> @blackboxsw: thanks! just merged
[17:29] <blackboxsw> falcojr: holmanb ubuntu/bionic expired hashed password  feature disable PR for bionic looks good to merge too https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/1654
[18:35] <blackboxsw> [ubuntu/kinetic-proposed] cloud-init 22.3-0ubuntu1~22.10.1 (Accepted)   upstream 22.3 release of cloud-init should be trickling into Ubuntu 22.10 (Kinetic) cloudimages shortly. Thanks holmanb for driving the release
[21:23] <blackboxsw> falcojr: holmanb for monday https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/1676 unit test fix for centos/rhel
[22:39] <blackboxsw> one more fun one for tools/read-version https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/1677
[22:39] <blackboxsw> calling it a week


[00:02] <jussi01> PriceChild: got a min?
[00:17] <PriceChild> jussi01, yeah sure
[00:18] <tonyyarusso> PriceChild: what do you mean a script to log hilights?  What crazy client do you use where that's not default?
[00:18] <crdlb> PriceChild: btw that's a script for irssi to give you a proper channel list
[00:19] <tonyyarusso> crdlb: hrm?
[00:19] <PriceChild> tonyyarusso, xchat... I just want to be able to have a little window that gives me all my hilights and channels since i've been away.
[00:19] <PriceChild> crdlb, pfft its gotta be crackful
[00:19] <tonyyarusso> PriceChild: irssi gives you a list in the server window automatically when you /away to come back
[00:19] <PriceChild> tonyyarusso, I know :)
[00:20] <tonyyarusso> PriceChild: I'm a wee bit surprised at XChat...
[00:23] <crdlb> PriceChild: nah not really :)
[00:24]  * Seeker` has a seperate "hilight" window in irssi
[00:24]  * Seeker` hasn't had any hilights yet today :(
[00:25] <jussi01> Seeker`:  :P
[00:25] <Seeker`> woo :P
[00:25] <PriceChild> crdlb, linky?
[00:25]  * jussi01 -> bed
[00:26] <Seeker`> night
[00:30] <crdlb> PriceChild: http://archive.f0rked.com/screenshots/irssi20051016.png
[00:32] <PriceChild> cool, link to that script?
[00:32] <crdlb> http://f0rked.com/articles/irssi
[00:32] <crdlb> search it for "awl"
[00:33] <jdong> PriceChild: you mean marmalade?
[00:33] <nalioth> crdlb: what does that do?
[00:33] <crdlb> adds a window list to show activity instead of the [Act: 2,4,5,9,12,13,42] thing
[00:35] <nalioth> ah
[00:35]  * nalioth has his numbers memorized
[00:35]  * tonyyarusso too, or at least the vast majority of them
[00:35]  * Pici three
[00:35] <crdlb> I used to know them before I started using that script :)
[00:36] <nalioth> does it change the window order?
[00:37] <Seeker`> PriceChild: Also, search for "Hilight Window" on the same page - it gives you a small window at the top of the screen showing only the hilights
[00:37] <PriceChild> Seeker`, I know how to do that bit thanks :)
[00:37] <Seeker`> nalioth: No, but it gives them names, so you have less need to remember them
[00:37] <Seeker`> PriceChild: oh, sorry
[00:37] <nalioth> Seeker`: crdlb: what does it do if you have 83 windows open?
[00:38] <crdlb> takes up half the screen :p
[00:38] <nalioth> right.
[00:38]  * nalioth will stick with his numbers
[00:38] <Seeker`> nalioth: I'm not silly enough to be in that many channels :D
[00:39] <nalioth> well, i go where i'm needed
[00:39] <Seeker`> I dont know how someone could keep track of 83 windows
[00:40]  * jdong wishes irssi would use a hex numbering system to save space :D
[00:40] <Seeker`> heh
[00:40] <Seeker`> my windows go from 1-9, then 0, then q-o, then it starts at 20
[00:41] <Seeker`> I haven't worked out how to select window 20 yet
[00:41] <tonyyarusso> jdong: rofl - it would only save space if you had >100
[00:41] <tonyyarusso> or <16
[00:42] <jdong> tonyyarusso: meh I'm no number theory freak but I think even as long as int(n/10) > int(n/16) you win
[00:42] <nalioth> 0_0
[00:42]  * nalioth just loaded awl
[00:42] <jdong> nalioth: screen shot!
[00:42]  * nalioth just unloaded awl
[00:42] <crdlb> hah
[00:43] <nalioth> not for me, but thanks for the info
[00:43] <PriceChild> haha :)
[00:44] <Seeker`> how do I select window 20?
[00:44] <PriceChild> /win 20
[00:44] <crdlb>  /win 20? :)
[00:44] <nalioth> Seeker`: depends on how you set your client up
[00:44] <crdlb> I use alt+a for getting to those windows a lot
[00:44]  * nalioth can't answer any of those questions, cuz his irssi is not really standard any more . . . .
[00:45]  * Seeker` uses esc+# to get to windows atm
[00:46] <tonyyarusso> jdong: wouldn't that work out to the same as what I said for all hyperion-allowable values of n?
[00:46] <jdong> tonyyarusso: AAAAHH MY HEAD *SMACK*
[00:48]  * tonyyarusso ponders
[00:54] <tonyyarusso> jdong: Nah, your equation is buggy
[00:54] <jdong> tonyyarusso: wouldn't be surprised
[00:54] <no0tic> tonyyarusso, valenzetti equation?
[00:56] <tonyyarusso> jdong: if n=30, int(n/10)=3, int(n/16)=1, 3>1, but the hexadecimal representation (1e) takes the same number of digits to display (2).
[00:57] <jdong> tonyyarusso: ok then I think we need to use log16 vs log10 of n
[00:57] <tonyyarusso> jdong: yeah, in some fashion or another I'm sure it needs a log
[01:01] <no0tic> probably with lastlog you can manage to do something
[01:11] <tonyyarusso> jdong: You gain if int(log(n)/log(10)) < int(log(n)/log(16)) (domain of function is n>0)
[01:12] <tonyyarusso> ie, decimal values 10-15, 100-256, 1000-4096, 10000-65536.
[01:15] <jdong> tonyyarusso: sounds reasonable.
[01:15] <jdong> tonyyarusso: now the question is, what ranges do you lose?
[01:16] <tonyyarusso> jdong: none.  You can only be equal or better.
[01:16] <tonyyarusso> So in that sense, sure, I guess it helps.
[01:18] <jdong> :)
[01:19] <tonyyarusso> Why are we having this discussion again?  :P
[01:21] <jdong> lol
[01:22] <PriceChild> because you are nerds
[01:22] <jdong> tonyyarusso: to pave the way for base64 irssi window numbering :)
[01:22] <jdong> PriceChild: and you aren't.
[01:22] <tonyyarusso> haha
[01:22] <PriceChild> jdong, no, i'm a geek
[01:22] <PriceChild> there is an incredible difference
[01:22]  * Seeker` is a geek, and proud of it
[01:22] <jdong> PriceChild: incredulous difference to me.
[01:22] <PriceChild> jdong, pish posh
[01:22] <jdong> PriceChild: hah another britishism :)
[01:22] <jdong> keep em coming
[01:23] <PriceChild> twss
[01:23] <PriceChild> I thought you'd like it.
[01:23] <jdong> PriceChild: I do :)
[01:26] <Seeker`> whats so good about britishisms?
[01:27] <PriceChild> they're..... british!
[01:27] <Seeker`> jolly good
[01:29] <jdong> smashing good laugh I dare say
[01:29] <Seeker`> tally-ho
[01:34] <nalioth> jimmacdonald: can we help you ?
[01:35] <nalioth> inpho: can we help you?
[01:35] <nalioth> K`Tetch: can we help you?
[01:37] <PriceChild> mhatcher, can we help you?
[01:37]  * MenZa hides behind tonyyarusso
[01:40]  * tonyyarusso gives MenZa a cookie
[01:40] <MenZa> :D
[02:08] <ubotu> FloodBot2 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (exploit)
[02:08] <ubotu> FloodBot3 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (exploit)
[02:08] <ubotu> FloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (exploit)
[02:14] <ctothej> someone test me please
[02:14] <ctothej> and let me know if i can join the chan again
[02:14] <nalioth> did you follow the instructions, ctothej ?
[02:15] <ctothej> yep, port 8001 for pidgin
[02:15] <nalioth> ok
[02:15] <ctothej> anything beyond that?
[02:16] <nalioth> ctothej: you're good to go, thanks for putting up with us  :)
[02:16] <ctothej> sure... thanks
[03:03] <ubotu> ardchoille called the ops in #kubuntu-offtopic (Kr4t05 Wants some attention i here and #kubuntu)
[03:04] <nalioth> taken care of
[03:13] <Hobbsee> thanks nalioth
[04:26] <ubotu> GionnyBoss called the ops in #ubuntu (Anastasia_- sends ads on join)
[04:26] <tonyyarusso> confirmed, removed
[04:29] <nalioth> tonyyarusso: poke us, please
[04:29] <tonyyarusso> nalioth: ah, right.  sorry.
[04:30] <tonyyarusso> nalioth: it looks like a virus/trojan masquerading as porn.
[04:30] <nalioth> i'm not worried about the content, i just want to remove the irritant from the network
[04:30] <nalioth> tonyyarusso: your ban is now removable
[04:30] <tonyyarusso> okay, ty
[07:04] <ubotu> In #ubuntu-bugs, persia said: ubotu: bugsquad is <reply> The Ubuntu BugSquad is the first point of contact for bugs filed about Ubuntu.  For more information, please see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad.  Documentation about processes is available from  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs.  Also see the /topic of #ubuntu-bugs.
[10:08] <jussi01> good morning all
[15:12] <jussi01> !feisty-#kubuntu
[15:12] <ubotu> Kubuntu 7.04 (Feisty Fawn) is the latest version of Kubuntu. Upgrading to Feisty: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FeistyUpgrades - Downloading: http://www.kubuntu.org/download.php
[15:12] <Tm_T> meh
[15:12] <jussi01> A little out of date...
[15:12] <jussi01> Tm_T: go back to your hole... :P
[15:16] <ubotu> MenZa called the ops in #ubuntu-offtopic (Premium5pam)
[15:17] <Tm_T> mmmmmh
[15:17] <Tm_T> the lonely channel without my powers, oh well :--P
[15:25] <jussi01> Tm_T: that guy in #kubuntu loves you... :P
[15:25] <Tm_T> jussi01: he does
[15:26] <jussi01> hehe... why is it that people get so grumpy?
[15:26] <Tm_T> who knows
[15:27] <Tm_T> jussi01: awww, he quit from irc because of me :(
[15:27] <ubotu> In #ubuntu, demento said: !clone is an application?
[15:41] <Myrtti> merh
[15:42]  * Tm_T pokes Myrtti
[15:42] <jussi01> Myrtti: is that a krapula merh? :P
[15:43] <Myrtti> no, I'm just trying to make myself depressed before I get the news tomorrow that I didn't get the lovely and most wonderful apartment I went to see just now
[15:43] <Myrtti> I know I'm not going to get it
[15:43] <Myrtti> it would be too perfect
[15:43] <jussi01> Myrtti: description?
[15:44] <Myrtti> 33m^2, next to 3K-supermarket, church, library, jogging track and bus stops. Bathroom renovated, view to pine trees, squirrels.
[15:45] <Myrtti> 380 incl. water
[15:45] <jussi01> NICE!
[15:45] <jussi01> in which city?
[15:45] <Myrtti> Tampered
[15:45] <Myrtti> -d
[15:46] <jussi01> nice. I will be down that way at christmas.
[15:46] <jussi01> (the inlaws live in Orivesi)
[15:46] <Myrtti> :-)
[15:46] <Myrtti> not in Nokia :-P
[15:46] <jussi01> :P
[15:46] <jussi01> thankfully
[15:47] <Myrtti> oh, it would be SO loverly if I got that place
[15:48] <Myrtti> it's on the other side of the city from Hervanta, but actually a bus goes straight to the front door of my previous workplace in Hermia
[15:50]  * jussi01 wishes Myrtti good luck
[15:53] <PriceChild> What's she doing?
[15:53] <PriceChild> gonna try and hop on one leg for the rest of the day?
[15:55] <Myrtti> who, me?
[15:55] <Myrtti> no
[15:55] <Myrtti> I went to see an apartment
[15:55] <Seeker`> PriceChild: Will you do that
[15:56] <Seeker`> gah, its too cold in here
[15:56] <Seeker`> my hands are seizing up - I cant type properlyu
[15:56] <Myrtti> get to know if I get it tomorrow
[15:56] <PriceChild> Myrtti, that's boring :/
[15:56] <PriceChild> I think you should go see an apartment while hopping.
[15:56] <PriceChild> And then I would wish you good luck too.
[15:56] <pleia2> hehe
[15:57] <PriceChild> I just don't feel motivated enough if its just any old apartment :/ Sorry.
[15:58] <pleia2> good luck Myrtti :)
[15:58] <Myrtti> PriceChild: it was the most perfectly situated, cheap and lovely apartment
[15:59] <PriceChild> Gonna get it?
[15:59] <Myrtti> even the bathroom had a big window to the pine tree view :-P
[15:59] <PriceChild> haha well that clinches it then
[16:02] <Myrtti> it's not my decision anymore.  Hopefully it will warm up enough for my finger coordination to get back to what it should be
[16:32] <Seeker`> typing a literature review with cold hands isn't fun :{
[16:32] <ikonia> agreed
[16:32] <Seeker`> woo for coursewrok deadlines
[16:33] <ikonia> ahh to be a student again
[16:33] <Jack_Sparrow> morning ikonia
[16:33] <ikonia> afternoon here
[16:33] <ikonia> but morning to you
[16:33] <Jack_Sparrow> time as always..is relative
[16:34] <ikonia> unless your a time lord or in the matrix
[16:34] <ikonia> I am neither
[16:34] <Jack_Sparrow> I love Dr Who
[16:34] <Jack_Sparrow> fun show
[16:34] <ikonia> certainly is
[16:35] <Seeker`> ikonia: I also have some nasty maths to do
[16:36] <Seeker`> but I have finished 75% of that, and i;m not sure whether the effort required for the last 25% of the work is worth it
[16:36] <ikonia> its always worth it
[16:36] <ikonia> think "first"
[16:36] <Jack_Sparrow> ikonia: I was able to rewrite my stupid vb6 program to run under wine or windows
[16:36] <ikonia> Jack_Sparrow: kudos
[16:37] <Seeker`> ikonia: The maths coursework is worth 25% of unit which is worth 20% of a year which is worth 70% of my degree
[16:37] <Jack_Sparrow> Now my dual booters can backup change edit or get man pages for Ubuntu System files..
[16:37] <ikonia> interesting approach
[16:37] <Jack_Sparrow> Like I said..stupid
[16:38] <Jack_Sparrow> but so are some of my users... 70 - 85 yrs old
[16:38] <Seeker`> and I have completed some of the question, so I should get some marks for it
[16:38] <ikonia> nice to make something fit for purpose
[16:40] <Jack_Sparrow> I found it much easier to teach them how to get around in UB than to keep windows working and bug free
[16:40] <ikonia> my parents use linux for a desktop for their needs and I'm surprised how easy they have adapted to it
[16:42] <Jack_Sparrow> ikonia: I still give my wifes parents windows, just disable the network card in thehardware setup
[16:42] <jpatrick> I've installed Kubuntu on my family's computers
[16:53] <PriceChild> inpho, K`Tetch mhatcher, Can we help you?
[17:06] <Tm_T> SWAT: hi how can we help you?
[17:07] <SWAT> Tm_T, hi. It's unusual to be greated like this. ATM you can't help me. I'm an op for the dutch channel, hence I joined
[17:07] <Tm_T> SWAT: shame :(
[17:08] <SWAT> really, it's a sunday evening (over here at least), take the time to relax and enjoy yourself.
[17:09] <Tm_T> SWAT: ah, you apparently have missed our inside joke :))
[17:09] <SWAT> the sarcastic undertone?
[17:09] <Tm_T> mmm, no
[17:10] <SWAT> I have just returned from a stressfull weekend, so please excuse when I'm not at the top of my game
[17:10] <Tm_T> just tried to make you bit confused :)
[17:11] <SWAT> keep on trying ;)
[17:11] <Tm_T> meh
[17:12] <Tm_T> SWAT: I could hug you if I were that kind of person
[17:48] <ubotu> macaholic called the ops in #ubuntu (wols)
[17:49] <macaholic> Wols was talking dirt.
[17:49] <ompaul> macaholic, rubbish in some ways
[17:49] <LjL> macaholic, perhaps wols is a little... so... but, i don't see how calling !ops was warranted
[17:49] <ompaul> macaholic, don't call ops
[17:50] <ompaul> unless the channel is under attack and remember
[17:50] <LjL> he said "go away", that's not entirely polite i agree, but
[17:50] <ompaul> !patience
[17:50] <ubotu> The people here are volunteers, your attitude should reflect that. Answers are not always available. See http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcGuidelines
[17:50] <macaholic> I cannot use apt-get, this is my second reinstall.,
[17:50] <macaholic> This is a productivity machine.
[17:51] <ompaul> this is not a help channel
[17:52] <ompaul> you were removed from the help channel - for abusing the !ops and someone telling you to go away is not an emergency in my books
[17:53] <LjL> macaholic, i'd have refused to help you with your problem too until i'd see the full apt-get output. it might seem irrelevant to you, but perhaps a single output line, without the context of which packages were being installed etc, can be quite meaningless unless perhaps you're some APT guru of kinds
[17:53] <macaholic> He didn't want to help me just because I didn't paste the lines that said what packages I wanted to install and which ones installed successfully.
[17:53] <ompaul> !paste
[17:53] <ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
[17:53] <ompaul> macaholic, ^^ fill that out with the required details
[17:54] <ompaul> macaholic, so it seems you know how you did not help the person who is willing to help if you tell them what they want to know
[17:54] <ompaul> macaholic, how does that look if you stand on the other side of the fence?
[17:55] <macaholic> (list of packages wanting to be installed)
[17:55] <macaholic> Do you want to continue?  Yes
[17:55] <macaholic> (Get lines)
[17:55] <macaholic> Fetched 37MB in 3m23s (183kB/s)
[17:55] <macaholic> E: Internal Error, Could not perform immediate configuration (2) on libpam-runtime
[17:55] <macaholic> Is the output.
[17:55] <macaholic> I don't need to tell him what I am or am not installing.
[17:56] <ompaul> that is your call - not his I take it, and as you don't meet his criteria I think he is within his rights to say no
[17:56] <LjL> says who?
[17:56] <LjL> if i google that error, for instance, i see (in debian)
[17:57] <LjL> "This is generally a badly constructed CD set with interdependencies between the binary disks in the set. It's not supported.
[17:57] <LjL> just an example, but this seems like for instance one *would* like to know the full output, including whatever you were installing
[17:58] <Myrtti> and no, this still usn't the help channel
[18:00] <LjL> he's probably uninstalled dpkg
[18:01] <ompaul> ooch
[18:01] <ompaul> how many languages can you say "I hate that" in?
[18:02] <LjL> i hate that, ich hasse es, jag hatar det, lo odio, lo odio
[18:03] <Myrtti> vihaan sitä
[18:03] <ompaul> ;-)
[18:04] <LjL> elvish doesn't count
[18:04] <ompaul> LjL, the winnnnnaaaaaaaaa
[18:05] <no0tic> hi LjL!! howdy?
[18:05] <LjL> tired, but ok
[18:05] <LjL> you?
[18:06] <no0tic> fine, no news at all, btw
[18:06] <no0tic> your wrist?
[18:06] <LjL> better. haven't used a computer for a couple of days, that seemed to help :)
[18:06] <LjL> well, i *have* used my a500+, but just to play pinball fantasies
[18:07] <ikonia> LjL: a500 ! do you have moonstone ?
[18:07] <LjL> nope, i had (and have) very few games really
[18:07] <ikonia> find it ;)
[18:08] <ikonia> LjL: are you running workbench 4 ?
[18:08] <LjL> well i can't use the amiga anymore now though :)
[18:08] <LjL> ikonia, uh? it's a 500+. 1 meg ram. 68000 7 mhz.
[18:08] <LjL> besides, i would never even touch os 4 :)
[18:08] <LjL> AROS at best
[18:08] <no0tic> :)
[18:09] <LjL> the 500+ has got wb 2.04, although i have got 2.1 later
[18:09] <ikonia> I've got wb4 here, but I've not got around to running it
[18:09] <LjL> what hardware?
[18:10] <ikonia> a1200
[18:10] <ikonia> but I planned to run it in an emulator rather than setup the kit
[18:11] <ikonia> just to see wb4
[18:11] <ikonia> I'm just curious
[18:11] <LjL> ah well now there are indeed some PPC emulators good enough to allow trying that
[18:11] <LjL> although i'm not sure there's any emulator with specific support for Amiga emulation
[18:11] <ikonia> I'm just interested in what the have happened
[18:11] <LjL> so one would have to twiddle a bit i suppose
[18:12] <ikonia> LjL: there are a few amiga emultors out there
[18:12] <LjL> ikonia, there's basically just UAE (and WinFellow for games)
[18:12] <LjL> and UAE never emulated a PPC
[18:12] <ikonia> I thought there was another too
[18:12] <ikonia> ahhh I see
[18:12] <LjL> amigaos 4 doesn't run on 68k
[18:13] <ikonia> I've not followed it at all, I got given it by a friend who used to be big on the demo sense and just thought I'd try it for interest
[18:13] <LjL> you need a PPC emulator... there's QEmu, PearPC (still around?), and perhaps some others
[18:13] <ikonia> pear is still around
[18:13] <LjL> still i don't think it'd be trivial to trick os 4 into believing it's running on amiga hardware
[18:14] <ikonia> no, I guess you may be right
[18:14] <ikonia> I'll do a little research before diving in
[18:14] <LjL> anyway, as far as i know, there's nothing *particularly* exciting
[18:14] <LjL> no memory protection, for starters
[18:14] <LjL> and that's currently the one show-stopper as far as amigaos & clones go, IMHO
[18:14] <LjL> check out www.aros.org rather
[18:14] <ikonia> I shall
[18:17] <LjL> that can run hosted in linux (actually, it's the way it's mostly run by its developers), and it crashes very well
[18:18] <ikonia> ha ha ha
[18:20] <rodserling> Hey, can I get tested for #ubuntu? Thanks
[18:21] <ompaul> rodserling, we'll think about it over the next min or so ;-)
[18:24] <LjL> rodserling: sorted
[18:24] <tomaw> +b *!*@pi3!*@*!#ubuntu-read-topic <- hehe
[18:25] <LjL> ahum...
[18:25] <rodserling> Yeah!!!
[18:25] <ompaul> rodserling, sorry I got called to one side as I started to set up
[18:25] <ompaul> LjL, good catch
[18:26] <LjL> i didn't catch anything, i unbanned pi3 by mistake and then re-banned with the wrong syntax :)
[18:26] <ompaul> LjL, rodserling was a catch I thought
[18:27] <LjL> i thought rodserling was an irc user
[18:27] <rodserling> I almost got away
[18:27] <ompaul> hahahaaha
[19:01] <LjL> follow-up from #ubuntu-offtopic ban, in PM:
[19:01] <LjL> [19:58:13] <kahrytan> I did stop asking didnt I? geeze.
[19:01] <LjL> [19:59:55] <kahrytan> Ask her.  I didnt even msg her again. And CoC does not have the word 'harrassment' so I am right.
[19:01] <LjL> [20:00:45] <LjL> you really asked for it in other ways. make your case in -ops if you want, though i suggest you wait a little while before doing it
[19:01] <LjL> ("so i am right", yup)
[19:02] <LjL> btw, kahrytan has trolled previously, to my knowledge.
[19:03] <ikonia> always handy to know
[19:07] <ompaul> LjL, was that today
[19:07] <LjL> ten minutes ago
[19:07] <ompaul> or last evening
[19:07] <ompaul> the ban
[19:07] <LjL> yes, ten minutes ago
[19:08] <LjL> [20:03:03] <kahrytan> Im just saying CoC doesnt specify it. and it can be updated to meet it. [20:05:01] <kahrytan> So you banned me partyl because I state a flaw in the CoC [20:06:10] <LjL> we all seemed pretty much convinced that the CoC does cover it ("be respectful", for starters). i banned you for arguing that you were "right" rather than just apologizing. but i'm really not supposed to discuss this in PM. come to -ops if you like. [20:07:23]
 lol Be Respectful is reason why I stopped asking.
[19:09] <ompaul> just looked - my reaction is: your conversation was not respectful, you can contemplate that for a while - we'll work out the duration later
[19:09] <ompaul> later is later
[19:09] <ompaul> inviting them here
[19:10] <ompaul> kahrytan> No thanks.
[19:10] <ompaul> so I guess that answers that
[19:11] <LjL> so does the refusal to answer my own invites
[19:11] <LjL> [20:09:25] <kahrytan> I dont see need for channel discussion. We're having civil conversation.
[19:11] <LjL> typical troll argument
[19:11] <LjL> why can't channel discussion be just as civil, one wonders?
[19:12] <ompaul> that calls for zero response
[19:12] <LjL> indeed
[19:12] <LjL> ahaha
[19:12] <Daviey> 19:12:28 <+ompaul>  Zero # :D
[19:12] <LjL> [20:12:34] <kahrytan> If you insist in talking in a channel, then goto #kahrytan. Otherwise, I'm not going to -ops.
[19:13] <nalioth> invite them to ##moderation
[19:13] <ompaul> LjL, that again calls for no reply
[19:13] <LjL> nalioth: why on earth? what's wrong with #ubuntu-ops?
[19:13] <ompaul> nalioth, ohh no not that ;-)
[19:13] <nalioth> LjL: ##moderation is neutral
[19:13] <LjL> nalioth, he refused to *check* if we'd be neutral.
[19:15] <nalioth> well, #kahrytan is his channel and -ops is ours.  ##moderation is a neutral channel
[19:16] <nalioth> which is why it exists
[19:16] <LjL> and #ubuntu-ops is the place where one should first come to appeal a ban
[19:16] <LjL> anyway, i invited him to ##moderation
[19:17] <LjL> [20:17:07] <kahrytan> I got a problem with that too.
[19:17] <LjL> i'm not replying anymore.
[19:17] <ikonia> most interesting
[19:18] <ikonia> query, if someone choses to behave like this, why would one attempt to tempt him to appeal the ban ?
[19:18] <nalioth> let them stay banned
[19:18] <ikonia> surly if someone want to be unbanned they must meet the ubuntu policy/procedure ?
[19:18] <ikonia> ahh ok, I was just querying that
[19:22] <PriceChild> Anyone give me a one line explanation of the kahrytan thing? Harrassing riotkittie in pm?
[19:23] <LjL> PriceChild: yeah. although i probably wouldn't have banned if i didn't know kahrytan as a troll i guess
[19:23] <LjL> but the subsequent refusal to discuss it in other than a private query does quite seem to confirm my troll suspicions
[19:23] <PriceChild> Did riotkittie come to us in any way? Or is this just from conversation in -offtopic?
[19:24] <LjL> "harassing" basically meant asking about her age, afaicu
[19:24] <LjL> PriceChild, just from conversation.
[19:24] <PriceChild> ok
[19:25] <LjL> [20:25:31] <kahrytan> I got a problem with other ops and log bots
[19:25] <ompaul> PriceChild, and in channel
[19:26] <PriceChild> ompaul, "in channel" being -offtopic?
[19:26] <ompaul> y
[19:26] <PriceChild> did you just try to tab-complete "yes"? :P
[19:26] <LjL> PriceChild: edited logs for your convenience http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/47582/
[19:26] <nalioth> what other ops and log bots are in ##moderation?
[19:26] <ompaul> no I am eating
[19:26] <nalioth> leave him banned
[19:26] <LjL> nalioth: he won't know until he joins, i suppose
[19:26] <PriceChild> LjL, yup went through -offtopic thanks.
[19:27] <LjL> he just doesn't want to know i also suppose
[19:28] <ompaul> I think I removed him last evening for similar but very early on in his thinking so to speak
[19:32] <ompaul> na twas not him
[19:33]  * ompaul wonders at ompauls memory
[19:48] <PriceChild> ompaul, who is STFU.or.you.will.find.my.foot.in.y0ur-ass.us ?
[19:48] <nalioth> PriceChild: where do you see that?
[19:48] <ompaul> no idea but that is as good as a bad quit message
[19:48] <ompaul> nalioth, #ubuntu
[19:49] <ompaul> llnk was the user
[19:49] <PriceChild> Ah I see him
[19:50] <nalioth> lovely
[19:51] <PriceChild> I think elcasey a regular in #ubuntuforums as rm-rf.us
[19:52] <jdong> PriceChild: yeah, before that he had some colourful ones too
[19:52] <PriceChild> ah yes
[19:52] <PriceChild> those were threatenned against me a little iirc
[19:52] <jdong> so it might not be intentional
[19:52] <PriceChild> pardon?
[19:52] <jdong> PriceChild: the way I understood it, it was a randomly assigned bouncer hostname
[19:52] <PriceChild> oh no
[19:52] <PriceChild> he chose it
[19:53] <nalioth> that was definitely NOT randomly assigned
[19:54]  * ikonia notes down the best excuse "that was randomly assigned by my isp"
[19:54] <jdong> haha
[19:56] <PriceChild> I think I'm going to start referring to Canonical as ¢anonical.
[19:57] <Seeker`> ¢aN°N1¢aŁ
[19:57] <PriceChild> Not quite what I meant
[19:59] <jdong> KNonikal for all you Kubuntu supporters.
[20:00]  * PriceChild head desks
[20:00] <ompaul> Seeker`, so nice of you to care
[20:01] <ompaul> ¢ænøn→¢æł is not what he meant either
[20:23] <Myrtti> i wan't ops at -offtopic
[20:23] <Myrtti> now
[20:25] <Myrtti> want, even
[21:10]  * rob hazards a guess that Ubotu is just supybot running with some custom plugins that Seveas wrote having taken a look at what was pulled down from bzr
[21:11] <Seveas> yup
[21:12] <rob> Seveas, so you just stuck everything into the plug-ins directory for supybot? What did you do with the stuff sitting in the main directory (the web stuff)?
[21:12] <Seveas> code for that lives in plugins/
[21:12] <Seveas> data/config is accessible for the one taking over
[21:12] <rob> ah okay, so supybot has its own webserver?
[21:12] <Seveas> no, it's html and cgi served by apache
[21:13] <rob> oh okay.
[21:34] <dmcglone> X you here?
[21:34] <stdin> dmcglone: evading bans, then bragging about it is not a good thing to do
[21:34] <dmcglone> do I look like I need advise from you stdin?
[21:35] <stdin> depends, do you want to get back into #kubuntu ?
[21:36] <dmcglone> first I wasn't bragging about it, second I got banned for trying to show somebody something
[21:36] <dmcglone> thats why I was laughing about it
[21:36] <stdin> I know why you got banned, I set the ban
[21:37] <Myrtti> sad
[21:37] <stdin> and if you got removed for it the first time, why do it again?
[21:37] <dmcglone> you talking about the first time I typed it?
[21:38] <dmcglone> it's funny how I got banned for asking a stupid question, but that dude was cussing like a druken sailor and he didn't get banned
[21:38] <stdin> yes, you abused the bot and were using bad language so you were removed, then you did it again so were banned
[21:39] <stdin> the 2nd time you did it, you said "<dmcglone> I got kicked the other day for this:"
[21:39] <stdin> so you have no excuse for it
[21:39] <Myrtti> even sadder
[21:40] <dmcglone> oh so if I acknowledge why I got kicked, but someone else can cuss all day it's ok?
[21:40] <stdin> that person was warned and stopped
[21:40] <stdin> you were warned the first time, then persisted
[21:41] <Myrtti> someone else's misbehaviour don't make your any more exceptable
[21:41] <PriceChild> dmcglone, others' behaviour is NO excuse for your own.
[21:41] <dmcglone> Ah I guess.
[21:41] <Myrtti> accept.. oh whatever
[21:41] <Myrtti> me, bed. todeloo fellas
[21:42] <dmcglone> want me to ask for forgivness?
[21:42] <stdin> dmcglone: please read http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcGuidelines
[21:43] <dmcglone> why did you bring me in here in the first place?
[21:44] <dmcglone> because I was laughing about getting banned?
[21:44] <stdin> because otherwise you'd have reconnected in a day or two and tried to get back in to #kubuntu
[21:44] <stdin> like you did this time
[21:45] <dmcglone> Oh so your saying I can't go back in there at all?
[21:45] <stdin> not if you don't agree to abide by the guidelines, if you do then I have no problem letting you back in
[21:46] <stdin> all I ask is that you read the guidelines and agree to abide by them
[21:46] <dmcglone> I have read them, but you took me out of #kubuntu because I was laughing about it.
[21:47] <stdin> no, I took you out because the original ban was still in place as well
[21:50] <stdin> dmcglone: so you agree to abide by those guidelines?
[21:52] <dmcglone> I always did
[21:52] <stdin> obviously not, as the guidelines do say not to abuse the bot and not to use bad language
[21:53] <stdin> as long as you agree not to do either, I'll unban you
[21:53] <dmcglone> Hmmm was I the only one?
[21:53] <stdin> only one for what?
[21:54] <dmcglone> I asked if I was the only 1 that used bad language in there
[21:54] <stdin> no, but you were the only one to have been asked not to prior to that
[21:54] <dmcglone> No I wasn't, and what I said was mild to what I seen, yet I'm the one that gets the 3rd degree
[21:55] <stdin> as others have said, others behaviour is no excuse
[21:55] <dmcglone> I guess your right
[21:56] <Seveas> good guess :)
[21:57] <stdin> dmcglone: ok, you can rejoin #kubuntu now
[21:57] <dmcglone> I'm wondering if I should
[21:58] <stdin> your choice
[21:59] <dmcglone> I'm afraid you will kick my butt if I do ;-)
[22:00] <stdin> as long as you abide by the guidelines, I'll have no reason to :)
[22:00] <dmcglone> we both know I could just change my name and IP and be on in no time. LOL
[22:00] <dmcglone> LOL
[22:01] <Seveas> and you'll be gone again in no time if you misbheave :)
[22:01] <dmcglone> I'm just pulling your leg
[22:01] <dmcglone> LOL
[22:01] <dmcglone> are we good?
[22:01] <Seveas> I'm good, don't know about you :)
[22:01] <dmcglone> I'm too old for this sh.... ah cought myself
[22:02] <dmcglone> anyway, it's cool. I'm cool
[22:02]  * LjL puts on his glasses
[22:02] <LjL> oh i was right! it's a troll!
[22:02] <ikonia> LjL: your spotting tallent is strong tonight
[22:02] <dmcglone> LjL nah i'm not a troll, i'm just sitting here getting the 3rd and acting stupid
[22:03] <LjL> which is certainly what this channel is for, yes?
[22:03] <LjL> also, it's kind of a new level of trollage... to keep trolling and threatening ban evasion *after* the ban is lifted
[22:03] <LjL> when i was young, trolls actually pretended to be happy with their ban being lifted
[22:03] <ikonia> the bar has been raised
[22:03] <LjL> then acted ok for a couple of days
[22:04] <LjL> and then started trolling again
[22:04] <LjL> but now just after being banned
[22:04] <LjL> nto
[22:04] <LjL> n. o. t.
[22:04] <dmcglone> I got banned for showing something that I was banned for. LOL
[22:04] <LjL> wee recursive ban
[22:04] <ikonia> why is that funny
[22:04] <LjL> hope that's not too much of a strain on the servers
[22:04] <dmcglone> it was stupid on my part, but hey some people have to lead by example
[22:05] <dmcglone> ikonia, I think it's funny because I'm way too old to care.
[22:05] <dmcglone> and I think it was funny also because it was stupid on my part
[22:06] <LjL> yeah, at 15 you begin trolling out of habit rather than actually being thrilled at it as you are at 14
[22:06] <dmcglone> for doing it 2 times!
[22:06] <LjL> but, do you have any further issues to bring to us?
[22:06] <dmcglone> am I supposed to leave?
[22:06] <Seveas> yes, this is not an idling channel
[22:07] <LjL> well, yes
[22:07] <dmcglone> but I was brought here?
[22:07] <dmcglone> LOL
[22:07] <dmcglone> OK
[22:07] <dmcglone> i'm kidding
[22:07] <dmcglone> I'll leave, unless you would like to kick me?
[22:07] <dmcglone> LOL bye
[22:07] <LjL> gah, he was too fast
[22:08] <stdin> you can catch him in #k ;)
[22:08] <LjL> yeah i know, i just got a new highlight
[22:08] <LjL> (yay, now more than 50% of messages trigger me a highlight)
[22:14] <nalioth> LjL: i suspect you need to reorder your highlights  :(
[22:14] <LjL> reorder as in priorities, or reorder as in remove some, or both?
[22:15] <LjL> something that makes me suspicious is that i often get highlighted and have no idea why
[22:15] <LjL> and browsing through the list is a bit too cumbersome, what with there being no search function
[22:15] <nalioth> i suspect if you reprioritize, you'll remove some of the highlights
[22:16] <LjL> i suspect you're right
[23:25] <ubotu> posingaspopular called the ops in #ubuntu-us ()
[23:27] <ubotu> In ubotu, bluefoxx said: !nethack-gnome is nethack


[01:26] <mwhudson> hi, the ubuntu-natty kernel tree doesn't seem to include the 2.6.38-10.46 abi stuff at the Ubuntu-2.6.38-10.46 tag
[01:26] <mwhudson> is that to be expected?
[01:26] <mwhudson> i'm very new to this sort of thing :)
[01:31] <mwhudson> ah, it seems that the abi stuff gets added the commit *after* the tag
[01:31] <mwhudson> (that makes some sense i guess)
[07:25]  * apw waves
[07:28]  * smb finishes scrollback and waves back
[07:35] <apw> reading scrollback, how dedicated :)
[07:36] <smb> Just because someone caused botty to spew out a lot of stuff and some of it hit the "bell of interest" ;)
[08:11] <apw> smb, ahh yes the c-ve bell
[09:42] <ppisati> apw: can you take a look at my ubuntu-oneiric ti-omap4-next branch? if it's ok, i'll pull req
[10:52]  * ppisati -> out for lunch
[12:06] <apw> ppisati, will try and look it over after i've sorted this lucid kernel issue
[12:36] <Q-FUNK> It seems that the apport rules for reporting a kernel bug are excessively thight:
[12:36] <Q-FUNK> I was forced to reboot into an older kernel, because of a regression, all while leaving the current package pulled by linux-generic installed. now, apport refuses to let me file a bug using 'ubuntu-bug' because the currently running kernel is not the same as the latest.
[12:37] <Q-FUNK> using 'ubuntu-bug linux' that is.
[12:37] <ppisati> apw: k
[12:38] <apw> Q-FUNK, yep its a pain in the backside
[12:38] <Q-FUNK> apw: is there any way this could be fixed?
[12:39] <apw> Q-FUNK, it cirtainly can be fixed
[12:40] <Q-FUNK> I can understand apport complaining if there is no linux-generic installed at all, but refusing to let me file a bug just because I rebooted into an older kernel that is no longer in the repository seems excessive.
[12:40] <apw> Q-FUNK, indeed seems excessive if that is the criteria
[12:40] <apw> though the bug information will be poor if you cannot file it from the right kernel anynhow
[12:41] <apw> as that will indicate the bug is in your old kernel which is false
[12:41] <Q-FUNK> will it? or will the bug be filed against the current version of linux-generic that is installed?
[12:42] <apw> all of the live information will be taken from teh running kernel
[12:42] <apw> so it would be even worse as mixture
[12:42] <Q-FUNK> right.  shouldn't there be a way to instead attach the dmesg from the previous boot with the buggy kernel, instead?
[12:44] <apw> yeah there likely should, or a way to take all the infrmation offline or something
[12:45] <Q-FUNK> that would work too.
[12:45] <apw> Q-FUNK, what happens if you ask it to file a bug against the specific binary kernel package which is broken
[12:45] <Q-FUNK> don't we already same the dmesg from the previous boot?
[12:46] <Q-FUNK> öö... save
[12:46] <apw> Q-FUNK, maybe so, not that i am aware of specificall, but maybe
[12:46] <Q-FUNK> trying that. just a sec.
[12:47] <Q-FUNK> yup. specifying the exact binary seems to work.
[12:47] <apw> Q-FUNK, well thats something, not helpful particularly but ok ..
[12:49] <Q-FUNK> well, at least the hardware data remains valid. :)
[12:49] <apw> whats the regression and with which release
[12:51] <Q-FUNK> since 2.6.39 there's frequent kernel paging failures that make the kernel oops.  it especially happens whenever running dpkg.
[12:52] <Q-FUNK> it's a non-fatal oops, but I end up having to run 'dpkg -a --configure' and re-start 'apt-get upgrade' several times in a row to complete the upgrade.
[12:52] <apw> so in lucid ?
[12:52] <Q-FUNK> oneirc
[12:53] <apw> well you must be unsual as i have 10 machines in that range and none have ever shown that kind of behaviour
[12:53] <apw> you are saying if you run 2.6.39 it doesn't occur ?
[12:53] <Q-FUNK> 2.6.38 works fine, but 2.6.39 and more recent have the symptoms.  with 2.6.39 it happened seldom, but with 3.0 it's nearly systematically when I do a daily package upgrade.
[12:54] <apw> 32 or 64 bit ?
[12:54] <Q-FUNK> 32-bit.  Geode LX
[12:54] <apw> oh a geode, heh, bet its h/w specific
[12:55] <Q-FUNK> not really
[12:55] <apw> well its not occuring any any of my oneiric boxes
[12:55] <apw> so its cirtainly not general
[12:55] <Q-FUNK> however, this particular host has repeatedly shown to be a good trap for corner-case kernel bugs.
[12:57] <apw> Q-FUNK, as you have a pair of good/bad you could see if the corresponding mainline kernels have the issue
[12:57] <apw> and then use the -rc's to try and pare it down a bit
[12:58] <Q-FUNK> tried that before, the last time I had a major regression on that host.  in the end, while we found out around which commit the regression took place, it never got investigated.
[13:00] <apw> Q-FUNK, as you are the only one with the h/w i suspect unless you do it it'll stay broken
[13:01] <Q-FUNK> I don't mind testing every -rc in the vanilla kernel folder to narrow it down to one specific release, but unless actions are taken beyond that point, it gets ridiculous.
[13:02] <mjg59> geode is amazingly niche hardware, and lots of people seem enthusiastic about building businesses around it without actually being willing to put in the funding or effort for making sure that the software they depend on continues to work
[13:03] <Q-FUNK> for instance, the ext4 inode destroying bug I encountered on the same host from kernel 2.6.31 to 2.6.35 was never properly investigated. it was just marked as fixed the day I announced that 2.6.36 apparently fixes it.
[13:03] <apw> Q-FUNK, if we can figure out whats breaking you we'll try and fix it, but last time it basically appears to be a work around for broken cache coherency so ... its not easy to either find or fix
[13:04] <Q-FUNK> apw: it could be. I'm still baffled as to how the bug occurred on that particular geode box and not on another one with a different bios.
[13:05] <apw> Q-FUNK, isn't half of the geode instruction set implemented via SMI, at which point the BIOS is part of your processor from a semanatic point of view
[13:06] <mjg59> apw: Not so much the instruction set. Just every time you think you're touching hardware.
[13:06] <apw> mjg59, ahh ok, so its part of the h/w then even after its handed off ... just as bad
[13:06] <Q-FUNK> IIRC the bios is mostly used to provide a traditional x86 abstraction (PCI bus, etc.) for a system that uses an entirely different bus architecture and there are various implementations of that abstraction layer.
[13:07] <mjg59> Right, any PCI accesses get handled by non-free firmware
[13:07] <mjg59> So who knows what it's doing?
[13:07] <apw> Q-FUNK, right but if the code is running via SMI after the kernel takes over, any bug in it ... can break things ... if they don't clean up right
[13:07] <Q-FUNK> free or non-free.  coreboot works quite well on those, at least for a few known configurations.
[13:08] <mjg59> Anyone who knew anything about how it worked appears to have vanished in a set of freak accidents
[13:08] <Q-FUNK> mostly in a set of random AMD attritions and OLPC changes of mind.
[13:08] <apw> mjg59, not physcial accidents i hope
[13:09] <mjg59> apw: Not to the best of my knowledeg
[13:10] <Q-FUNK> AMD used to have an extremely knowledgeable and dedicated coder who handled Geode coding for the OLPC project.  he even won employee awards for his efforts.  then one day, after a particularly bad quarterly, he fell the victim of random attrition.
[13:10] <mjg59> I suspect that if it weren't for OLPC, everyone would just have given up pretending to support Geode
[13:10] <mjg59> It's cetainly the only reason we care
[13:10] <mjg59> (And we don't for RHEL)
[13:10] <apw> ahh ... shame i don't know anyone who has one
[13:11] <Q-FUNK> that random attrition even left his immediate boss in usnly had to provide technical support and ongoing code development without his main guy.
[13:12] <Q-FUNK> argh.  friggin kernel i/o stealing my keystrokes again
[13:13] <Q-FUNK> that random attrition even left his immediate boss in total limbo, because he suddenly had to provide technical support and ongoing code updates without his main guy.
[13:14] <Q-FUNK> I really hate how hard-disk access has the bad habit of momentarily halting the keyboard buffer.
[13:15] <apw> Q-FUNK, never see that either, keys may be delayed for me but not lost
[13:15] <apw> not that i want them delayed of course, but thats a separate gripe
[13:16] <Q-FUNK> delayed would be acceptable.  half of the time, if the kernel starts swapping, I end up missing several words in the middle of a sentence.
[13:18] <ohsix> you could try changing your io wait method
[13:19] <apw> herton, we likely are going to have to shove a lucid kernel with a single fix in for the point release ... so hold off any lucid uploads to the PPA
[13:21] <herton> apw: we were avoiding uploading anything because of the point release too, so that's ok
[13:21] <apw> ok good stuff
[13:21] <Q-FUNK> ohsix: the scheduling algorhythm, you mean?
[13:22] <ohsix> Q-FUNK: nevermind, was thinking of something else
[14:24] <apw> sconklin, i've pushed a temporary bracnh to lucid, master-point which is what i am proposing for the upload
[14:30] <sconklin> apw: ok, sounds good
[14:43]  * ogasawara back in 20
[14:57] <apw> sconklin, ok the decision from the release team is that they want a kernel spun, could you check that branch for me as the stable check script just talks crap
[14:58] <sconklin> heh, probably as soon as we finish the meeting
[15:33] <climbe2> Problem!  If anyone is able to help.... running 10.04, recently upgraded to kernel 2.6.32-33, and can't boot up!!  See http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1807978 for my ongoing thread.  Any suggestions?!?!
[15:33] <ogasawara> tgardner: heading in, see ya in 15
[15:34] <tgardner> ogasawara, ack
[16:10]  * herton -> lunch
[16:18] <ppisati> mumble went belly up
[16:21] <kees> apw: say, did you see my email about a funky CVE in the hardy update?
[16:23] <apw> kees, not yet, which one
[16:24] <kees> oh, sorry, not hardy. 2010-4175 in linux-lts-backport-maverick
[16:24] <kees> the tracker shows "released 2.6.35-25.44~lucid1" but there is a changelog entry in 2.6.35-30.56~lucid1
[16:26] <apw> kees, seems to be applied twice
[16:26] <kees> ??
[16:26] <apw>  git log --oneline origin/lts-backport-maverick  | grep 'rds: Integer overflow in RDS cmsg handling'
[16:26] <kees> was it a no-change cherry-pick or something?
[16:26] <apw> 9a3798f rds: Integer overflow in RDS cmsg handling, CVE-2010-4175
[16:26] <ubot2> apw: Integer overflow in the rds_cmsg_rdma_args function (net/rds/rdma.c) in Linux kernel 2.6.35 allows local users to cause a denial of service (crash) and possibly trigger memory corruption via a crafted Reliable Datagram Sockets (RDS) request, a different vulnerability than CVE-2010-3865. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2010-4175)
[16:26] <apw> ae1d3ae rds: Integer overflow in RDS cmsg handling
[16:26] <apw> git describe --contains ae1d3ae
[16:26] <apw> Ubuntu-lts-2.6.35-25.44~33
[16:26] <apw> git describe --contains 9a3798f
[16:26] <apw> Ubuntu-lts-2.6.35-28.50~20
[16:27] <apw> so thats where the version you mention come from.  from whats in the tree i'd expect my tools to take the first version number there
[16:27] <apw> and i think thats what you are saying it did
[16:27] <kees> yeah, that's certainly the correct approach, but I guess I'm wonder if we need to look closer -- how did it get applied twice (did that have a bad effect?)
[16:27] <apw> kees, both commits seem to be complete
[16:27] <apw> which should be impossible
[16:28] <kees> right :P
[16:28] <sconklin> apw: did you test build this?
[16:28] <apw> sconklin, i built only generic on amd64/i386
[16:29] <sconklin> I'm going to test build before I shove it to the PPA. Less time in the long run if it fails
[16:29] <apw> sconklin, ack, thanks
[16:29] <apw> kees, will investigate and let you know
[16:29] <kees> apw: cool, thanks
[16:30] <apw> i can only assume the first one got reverted somehow
[16:30] <apw> just ... how i don't know
[16:35] <sconklin> apw: does this require an ec2 respin?
[16:36] <apw> sconklin, i would expect it might now you mention it, but i am confirming now with the release team
[16:41] <herton> ppisati: yeah, mumble can't login anymore here
[16:41] <sconklin> here either
[16:45] <apw> kees, ok this actually is fixed in the earlier one as advertised.  however the relayout of the code since then makes it inobvious so someone has applied the same fix again to the containing routine in the second place
[16:45] <apw> kees, so its doubly fixed essentially
[16:49] <kees> apw: how strange, okay. thanks!
[16:49] <apw> sconklin, ok the basic answer is no we don't need -ec2
[16:49] <apw> kees, good spot though
[16:49] <sconklin> ok
[16:50] <apw> 17:49:02      Daviey | it's a nice to have.. but we are only currently seeing this with euca.                         │ astraljava
[16:51] <Daviey> \o/
[16:53] <apw> Daviey, yep taking your name in vein
[16:53]  * apw screams about mumble
[17:14]  * jjohansen running an errand
[17:30] <sconklin> apw: package uploaded, It'll take 24 hours to complete, since it includes ARM arch
[17:30] <apw> sconklin, yeah
[17:30] <apw> sconklin, one reason we need it in as soon as
[17:31] <sconklin> apw: yep, and another reason that I did a test build (which completed OK)
[17:32] <apw> sconklin, yep all sensible and right
[17:38] <climbe2> Problem!  If anyone is able to help.... running 10.04, recently upgraded to kernel 2.6.32-33, and can't boot up!!  See http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1807978 for my ongoing thread.  Any suggestions?!?!
[17:57] <apw> climbe2, does the previous kernel work
[17:58] <apw> as in seelecting an older kernle from the grub menu
[18:03] <tgardner> apw, mumble seems to have reincarnated
[18:04] <climbe2> apw, no none will work anymore
[18:05] <apw> climbe2, ok thats indeed odd if you took a kernle update and all your old kernels stop working too
[18:05] <apw> which versions have you tried
[18:05] <climbe2> perhaps it was not the upgrade.... I was recently using an SDHC card through my HP printer... two different USB storage devices...
[18:06] <climbe2> all I know is that I can't boot up at all!
[18:06] <apw> /dev/disk/by-uuid/e3df952c-d462-4292-bab6-4965da1d567c does not exist. Dropping to a shell.
[18:07] <apw> so that implies your disk does not have the lable that is expected
[18:08] <apw> at the busy box you can get the dmesg output and see if any of your disks were found
[18:08] <climbe2> ok, how do I do that?
[18:09] <climbe2> I am also on a different computer right now, so I will have to hand type it
[18:09] <apw> climbe2, 'dmesg | grep sd'
[18:09] <apw> that command sequence might give you some clues
[18:09] <apw> climbe2, you might also try 'blkid'
[18:10] <apw> if that is available it might tell you waht disks it thinks it can see
[18:10] <apw> /dev/sda5: UUID="cf503727-25f2-4ecd-b0f3-2b894523bcba" TYPE="ext4"
[18:10] <climbe2> I can only get to the grub command line
[18:10] <climbe2> is there another command line I can use?>
[18:10] <apw> mine has a line like that ... wihhc matches the UUID in the error ...
[18:10] <apw> climbe2, your post has the busybox prompt in it ?
[18:11] <apw> (initramfs)
[18:11] <apw> that one
[18:11] <climbe2> I've been a few different places from back then...let me see
[18:12] <climbe2> yes, I am there
[18:13] <apw> does blkid produce any output
[18:13] <apw> and does dmesg | grep sd
[18:14] <climbe2> dmesg | grep sd produces hundreds of lines it seems....blkid produces my drives
[18:14] <apw> ok, and does the UUID in the error line appear ?
[18:14] <climbe2> blkid:  /dev/sda1, 2, 5, 6    /dev/sdab1
[18:15] <apw> climbe2, is that the exact output it produced ?
[18:15] <apw> i am expecting some UUID= segments
[18:16] <apw> /dev/disk/by-uuid/e3df952c-d462-4292-bab6-4965da1d567c
[18:16] <climbe2> there is an extra "\" in the error message than in the drive UUID
[18:16] <apw> an extra ?
[18:16] <apw> what ?
[18:16] <climbe2> wait..let me see
[18:18] <climbe2> in grub, i press 'e' to edit... it has /dev/disk/by-uuid/e3fd.....b\ab6-... instead of bab6
[18:19] <apw> well you could try removing that \
[18:20] <climbe2> rather, in the edit screen, 5th line down it says linux /boot/vmlinuz 2.6.32-33-generic root=UUID=e3fd.....b\ab6...
[18:21] <apw> though i am supprised to get those full names in your grub conf
[18:21] <climbe2> perhaps that is an end-of-line signal...?  it occurs on another line as well
[18:21] <climbe2> when the line breaks to continue to the next
[18:22]  * apw has to run
[18:23] <climbe2> thanks for the help
[18:23] <climbe2> i'll see what i can do
[18:26] <pgraner> skaet, ping
[18:27] <pgraner> skaet, we don't need to pull the kernel re: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/788351
[18:27] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 788351 in linux "xfs ioctl XFS_IOC_FSGEOMETRY_V1 clobbers kernel stack" [Undecided,New]
[18:27] <pgraner> skaet, the patch in question is in the current -proposed
[18:27] <pgraner> skaet, no need to do anything
[18:27] <skaet> pgraner,  thanks - was pinging around about it.
[18:27] <pgraner> skaet, next time just drop in here and ask
[18:28] <skaet> pgraner, will do
[18:59] <kees> apw: another "why is this 'released'?" question for 2011-0711. uct shows it as "released" for a kernel in -proposed (hardy)
[19:26]  * jjohansen lunch
[20:37]  * tgardner bounces tangerine for kernel update
[21:15] <FireZen> !


[05:19] <superm1> stgraber: do you not have cia turned on for your bzr branch?
[05:19] <superm1> (of ubiquity that is)
[05:20] <stgraber> superm1: yep, I do for ubiquity, I tend to forget for the other ones as I don't usually keep them on my laptop
[05:20] <superm1> oh i just didn't see any announces for today's ubiquity upload in this channel
[05:21] <stgraber> that was ev, so maybe he doesn't have CIA configured
[05:21] <superm1> oh i see, yeah maybe
[12:41] <NCommander> cjwatson: need to pick your brain for a moment. Roughly speaking, how hard would it get base-installer to properly install a kernel from precise-proposed/updates? As far as I understand it, d-i wants to always install the release kernel, then update on the fly
[12:42] <infinity> NCommander: He's on leave.
[12:42]  * NCommander picks infinity's brain instead
[12:42] <infinity> And this is a solved problem.
[12:42] <infinity> We build d-i against backport kernels from updates.
[12:43] <NCommander> Right, I understand this
[12:43] <NCommander> but my understanding is what happens is the system is booted from the d-i build in updates
[12:43] <NCommander> Install base system happens, kernel from precise-release is added. d-i then populates /etc/apt/sources.lists, and the kernel gets dist-upgraded on the fly
[12:44] <NCommander> at least as late as oneiric, base-installer would explode if it couldn't grab a kernel deb from where it debootstrapped from
[12:44] <infinity> That would never work for the lts backport kernels, since they aren't direct version upgrades from released packages.
[12:45] <infinity> So, while I haven't looked at the code, I don't see how it could work that way.
[22:28] <stgraber> bdmurray: looking at bug 898278
[22:28] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 898278 in ubiquity "Upgrade menu option should not appear for old releases" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/898278
[22:29] <stgraber> bdmurray: did you ever reproduce it on Precise?
[22:29] <stgraber> as in, with a Precise system and using an Oneiric media?
[22:29] <stgraber> I'm still digging through the code at the moment but at least in my VM, it doesn't let me "upgrade", it only lets me reinstall
[22:31] <bdmurray> stgraber: looking
[22:31] <stgraber> I was planning on using a 11.10 media with a 12.04 install to reproduce and then fix ubiquity, but it'd be nice to actually get the bug for that ;)
[22:32] <bdmurray> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/891711/comments/7
[22:32] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 891711 in ubiquity "Fails to copy directory over symlink (e.g. /var/lock when downgrading from 11.10 to 11.04)" [High,Confirmed]
[22:32] <bdmurray> It seems like I did at one point
[22:32] <stgraber> or I'll just add a lot of debugging to ubiquity's code and try to figure out where the bug might be and why it doesn't affect me (there are a lot of FIXME's in there)
[22:33] <stgraber> yeah, I guess I'll have another look through the history for the commit that might have fixed it
[22:34] <stgraber> because there isn't much point in testing the 11.04 installer on a 11.10 system as I couldn't really fix it anyway and ubiquity changed quite a bit since then
[22:40] <bdmurray> stgraber: in ubi-partman it says
[22:40] <bdmurray>                    # TODO: Verify that the version is in fact older.
[22:41] <stgraber> bdmurray: yeah, and for some reason I never actually hit that part of the code when trying 11.10 with a 12.04 system


[04:50] <micahg> are patches to remove g_thread_init completely from packages upstreamable to actual upstreams yet or should we just keep this as a diff right now?
[04:53] <broder> micahg: i thought you needed to add gthread-2.0 to the pkg-config list, not remove it
[04:53] <micahg> broder: well, that's one option, but it won't do anything anymore in precise AFAICT
[04:54] <broder> micahg: but presumably it's needed on older glibs, right?
[04:55] <micahg> yeah, maybe I should just change it to link with gthread-2.0 now that I think about it, but I'm wondering why people are adding patches to remove the calls
[04:57] <broder> if there's actually any multithreading, that seems like it could be dangerously wrong
[04:58] <micahg> broder: which part?
[04:58] <broder> not calling g_thread_init
[04:58] <broder> is it actually no longer needed?
[04:59] <micahg> ah, yeah
[04:59] <micahg> well, it seems to b: http://developer.gnome.org/glib/2.31/glib-Deprecated-Thread-APIs.html#g-thread-inite needed, but doesn't support custom implementations
[05:03] <broder> yeah, dropping the calls just doesn't feel like a great idea if you need them to do any multithreaded stuff
[05:16] <achiang> rhythmbox in 12.04 seems to have forgotten about the music store. :-/
[05:16] <micahg> achiang: well, it needs to be ported to gtk3 for that
[05:17] <achiang> oh.
[05:17] <achiang> is there a blueprint for that?
[05:19] <achiang> this page is... missing stuff? http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/
[05:25] <micahg> achiang: could be it's already ported, but that's why we didn't have it in oneiric
[05:25] <achiang> micahg: poking around with apt-cache search doesn't show anything promising
[22:12] <RAOF> Ah, well.  At least now I know *where* those bad sectors on the hard drive are...
[22:15] <bjsnider> you haven't replaced that drive yet?
[22:16] <mainerror> RAOF: You should replace it ASAP!
[22:17] <RAOF> Yeah, yeah.
[22:17] <RAOF> I'm happy to ride it into the ground; all the data's safely duplicated elsewhere.
[22:17]  * RAOF is more annoyed with his SSD that's no longer appearing as a drive to the BIOS.
[22:19] <mainerror> Oh, that doesn't sound good either.
[22:19] <mainerror> What SSD is it?
[22:20] <RAOF> Again, Déja Dup to the rescue.
[22:20] <RAOF> A vertex 3.
[22:20] <mainerror> Oh no! I wanted to get on of those!
[22:22] <bjsnider> is that a bios bug?
[22:22] <RAOF> Only if it's a bios bug that applies to an x200s, a UEFI dell, and a legacy dell.
[22:24]  * RAOF wonders if there's been unusual power fluctuations; *all* his hardware has decided to do strange things.
[22:29] <mainerror> That might be an explanation.
[22:48] <JanC> "unusual power fluctuations" shouldn't influence a laptop all that much, I think
[22:49] <RAOF> Yeah; everything's plugged into surge-protectors, and the battery should cushion low-voltage events.
[22:49] <JanC> as should the power supply really
[22:50] <JanC> that's 3 levels of protection, at least
[22:54] <JanC> although, beware of network connections...
[22:55] <RAOF> Also plugged into a surge protector.
[22:55] <RAOF> Well, except for the DSL :)
[22:56] <JanC> I have my DSL going through a surge protector actually  ;)
[22:56] <JanC> (although it probably won't survive a direct lightning strike...)
[22:59] <JanC> I got somewhat wary about these things after a neighbour got hit by a lightning strike and I lost several pieces of electronic/computer equipment by that too...
[23:02] <JanC> I lost a cable modem, a monitor, a router and an USB disk that night...
[23:02] <RAOF> Oh!  I think this might explain my > 1 minute login time on this system.  There are bad sectors in some files that might get touched at login…
[23:02] <RAOF> Ooh, ow.
[23:05] <JanC> well, I could rescue the actual hard disk, but the USB part was fried; and similarly only the ethernet parts of the router were fried, but that made them useless for the purpose I bought them  ;)
[23:06] <RAOF> Heh.
[23:07] <JanC> RAOF: bad sectors on an SSD should be relocated normally?
[23:07] <JanC> by the SSD firmware?
[23:07] <RAOF> Yes, but only on write IIUC.
[23:08] <JanC> right
[23:08] <RAOF> And this is a rotating rust.
[23:08] <JanC> well, maybe even on read, duno
[23:09] <RAOF> I think it's only on write; it can't make a sensible relocation on read, as it doesn't have sensible data.
[23:09] <JanC> depends, it could relocate if multiple reads are needed
[23:10] <JanC> or if a read needs error corrections
[23:10] <JanC> depending on how they implemented stuff ;)
[23:11] <JanC> but i doubt most SSD are that clever  :-/


[10:22] <alan_g> alf_:  you're OK dealing with the clang failures?
[10:24] <alf_> alan_g: Yes, pushing a branch (the problem is also fixed in your newest MVC branch, but we can't wait for it).
[10:26] <alan_g> Sure - I'll review when you're ready
[10:26] <alf_> alan_g: https://code.launchpad.net/~afrantzis/mir/fix-1416317-clang-build/+merge/248089
[10:30] <alan_g> alf_: I suggest a "merge by hand" to get it fixed asap
[10:31] <alan_g> Are you willing or shall I?
[10:32] <alf_> alan_g: I will do it
[10:32] <alan_g> Mmm just tried "use_debflags" locally and got linker errors with clang: /usr/include/pthread.h:1166: multiple definition of `pthread_equal'
[10:33]  * alan_g decides to ignore it unless CI breaks the same way
[10:35] <alf_> alan_g: I have had this problem for a while now, but haven't been able to resolve it
[10:36] <alf_> alan_g: ...but after upgrading to clang 3.6 today I got even bigger problems: clang can't find c++ header files/libs. I had to manually add the std paths to test the fix.
[10:37] <alan_g> It looks like the inlining macros are ending up wrong, but it isn't immediately obvious why
[10:38] <alan_g> I'll stick with 3.5 then
[10:59] <alan_g> alf_: any opinion on https://code.launchpad.net/~mir-team/mir/add-multiplexing-dispatchable/+merge/246674?
[11:00] <alf_> alan_g: I am trying to wrap my head around the gc stuff
[11:02] <alan_g> alf_: "Dissapprove - it makes my head hurt" ;)
[11:23]  * alan_g notices all his VPN setups have disappeared
[14:31] <alan_g> alf_: I added 0.5kl of forgotten updates to server/symbols.map - I hope that doesn't put you off.
[14:32] <alf_> alan_g: no problem
[17:23] <alan_g> alf_: I'm seeing an intermittent segfault in mir::compositor::GLProgramFamily::Shader::init() running Mir on the desktop with --display-config sidebyside. Any thoughts before I dive in?