[01:14] <nedstark> #kubuntu
[01:47] <DrCool> kubuntu?  Traitor....
[01:47] <xangua> Storm trooper: you traitor!
[03:04] <ObrienDave> I can't get to the logon password screen
[03:15] <ObrienDave> opening splash screen then blank. press power button, get closing splash screen. and that's all. grrrrrrrr
[03:15] <Unit193> ObrienDave: From first bootup, as in you are using autologin or what?  Care to share more details?
[03:16] <ObrienDave> no auto login
[03:16] <Unit193> Ah, try taking off 'quiet splash' from the grub boot line, then.
[03:16] <ObrienDave> ok, will do. back asap
[03:24] <xubuntu84o> hi
[03:24] <xubuntu84o> ?
[03:25] <markwalt> Hi
[03:26] <xubuntu84o> how are u, ? I wonder if the "noram" boot option can be used in Xubuntu too
[03:27] <xubuntu84o> im using live usb here and tried pressing tab at the live usb menu, then wrote noram before the --
[03:27] <xubuntu84o> but didnt work
[03:30] <ObrienDave> Unit193, nope, still hangs somewhere between quiet splash and $vt_handoff
[03:31] <ObrienDave> i think LOL
[03:32] <Unit193> That should have given you a lot of messages to show more where it dies.  Or you can try flipping VTs.
[03:32] <Unit193> xubuntu84o: Are you thinking of 'toram' rather than 'noram'?
[03:33] <ObrienDave> i tried removing vt_handoff but that gave me something about error parsing PCC
[03:33] <ObrienDave> i have no clue
[03:33] <xubuntu84o> im very sleepy here lol
[03:33] <xubuntu84o> toram
[03:33] <xubuntu84o> sorry yes,
[03:34] <Unit193> That one works.
[03:37] <xubuntu84o> unit193, was that answer to me or to obrien
[03:37] <ObrienDave> hopefully to you LOL
[03:39] <xubuntu84o> unite193, what could be the reason that isnt working when I try to use it
[03:40] <xubuntu84o> im also trying to edit the lilo file, not sure if it works if i edit that one, and its not in the same folder that the ubuntu documentation says
[03:40] <Unit193> ...What are you booting onto?
[03:41] <xubuntu84o> sorry, what do u mean
[03:42] <xubuntu84o> what kind of devce?
[03:42] <ouroumov> noram would have been a weird boot option for sure
[03:42] <xubuntu84o> heh yes
[03:43] <xubuntu84o> i
[03:45] <xubuntu84o> unite193 im booting from a USB stick
[03:47] <Unit193> So usually it gets to the screen with the little icon at the bottom, you hit shift and it'll open a language menu.  After that, you hit F6 (or whatnot) to bring up the boot line, and append 'toram' on the end.
[03:49] <xubuntu84o> but are u talking about the XUbuntu screen? or the Ubuntu screen?
[03:50] <Unit193> Boot sequence is the same, but I was referring to Xubuntu of course.
[03:52] <xubuntu84o> I didnt get the little icon at the bottom, maybe because it is a live usb version?
[03:53] <ObrienDave> purple screen, icon bottom center, same screen for most *buntus
[03:54] <xubuntu84o> i get a 5 options menu. the first one is "try xubuntu without installing it" (or something like that) the others are install xubuntu.. help. To edit the "try ubuntu witout installing it" i hit TAB. and I can see the kernel boot options that are going to be used. I add the "toram" before the --
[03:55] <xubuntu84o> but doesnt work. i know what screen are you talking about because i saw that in one explanation about this for ubuntu.
[03:55] <xubuntu84o> but i dont get that screen
[04:01] <xubuntu84o> is there a file that i can edit, and just add the toram option?
[04:01] <xubuntu84o> i cant find anything about it
[04:01] <Unit193> You didn't dd, you used unetbootin?
[04:03] <xubuntu84o> I used another program, "universal usb installer"
[04:12] <xubuntu84o> no idea unit193?
[04:18] <xubuntu82o> I found the file to edit it. by the way unit, your presence is really really useful here, keep up the good work man. bye
[11:48] <Afdal> huh
[11:48] <Afdal> Doesn't Xubuntu come with xscreensaver preinstalled anymore?
[11:49] <Afdal> Looking around on this 14.04 livecd and I can't find it
[11:54] <Luyin> Afdal: xubuntu is being shipped with lightlocker afaik
[11:54] <Afdal> ah
[11:54] <Afdal> Oh Light Locker imitates that nasty Windows 8 settings interface doesn't it :(
[11:54] <Afdal> booooo
[12:09] <Luyin> Afdal: you can change lightlockers behaviour to something you like. or use another locker if you need one.
[12:09] <Afdal> yeah I know
[12:10] <Afdal> I'm setting up a modified Xubuntu distro for someone
[12:10] <Afdal> and they really really hate Windows 8
[12:10] <Afdal> maybe I'll swap it out for xscreensaver, I dunno
[12:11] <Afdal> thanks for the info :)
[18:50] <RoadRunner> need to install a Pidgin plugin which needs to be compiled; instructions for Debian are here https://github.com/EionRobb/skype4pidgin/tree/master/skypeweb#compiling what needs to be done differently for Xubuntu?
[19:10] <Luyin> RoadRunner: as far as I can see, nothing
[19:27] <dv_> anybody knows what this dialog is that asks me to type my password to unlock something?
[19:28] <dv_> it appears after unlocking the screen
[19:46] <bekks> dv_: Whats written in that dialog?
[19:46] <dv_> not much. I'll make a screenshot the next time it appears.
[19:47] <dv_> I tried to find out what is requesting this unlock, to no avail.
[19:47] <Luyin> dv_: probably something like gnome-keyring
[19:48] <dv_> sometimes I have to press cancel repeatedly until it goes away
[20:42] <jwr__> I'm using xinerama with triple monitors. Screen0 is two monitors (left and center) and Screen1 is the right monitor. xfce4-panel is spanning across the entirety of Screen0, which is the left and center monitor.
[20:42] <jwr__> how can I get xfce4-panel to only use the center monitor?
[20:44] <Luyin> jwr__: rightclick on the panel > panel settings
[20:46] <jwr__> Luyin: I looked in there, and "span monitors" seemed close, but that only gives me the option of spanning across all three monitors (checked) or spanning across the left and center monitors (which is X Screen0, unchecked)
[20:52] <Luyin> jwr__: uncheck "span monitors", then move the panel to the place you want it to be
[20:59] <ouroumov> I have a feature request: when we do ALT+TAB to switch between windows, it would be nice if the switcher would appear on all screens in a multi screen setup.
[21:01] <Luyin> ouroumov: you can set this up in xfce 4.12 ;)
[21:02] <ouroumov> Really? Awesome!
[21:02] <ouroumov> Thanks!
[21:03] <Luyin> at least I think so, but I don't seem to find it
[21:03] <ochosi> ouroumov: that happens by default in xubuntu
[21:04] <Luyin> which xfce version is shipped with current xubuntu releases?
[21:04] <jwr__> happens by default for me
[21:04] <jwr__> and i'm on xfce 4.12, xubuntu 14.04
[21:05] <ouroumov> I tried that on 14.04, hadn't noticed. :o
[21:06] <ochosi> maybe you only looked at one monitor at a time ;)
[21:07] <ochosi> you need to focus on both at the same time!
[21:21] <raaquio> Hi ppl! I'm having an issue with my WiFi connection that i dont know whats happening. The wifi is working good at me phone and tablet, but since yesterday my Xubuntu recognize The signal, tell me thats is connected, but it is not.
[21:22] <raaquio> No bits coming except for The qbittorrent program.
[21:22] <raaquio> In Qbittorrent is like nornal
[21:23] <raaquio>  But nothing happens in The browser, nothing open, neither The emails in thunderbird.
[21:26] <bekks> raaquio: Maybe qbittorrent is just using the whole bandwidth then.
[21:28] <raaquio> I thought about it, but then i close The program, and still The same thing.
[21:29] <raaquio> I try to apt-get install in terminal and no signal too. :/
[21:30] <raaquio> bekks: kinda strange, don't it?
[21:30] <bekks> How do you determine wether "bits are coming through"?
[21:34] <raaquio> bekks: don't know, how?
[21:34] <bekks> You stated that - so you have to tell us.
[21:40] <raaquio> bekks: let me see


[02:02] <bjf> stgraber, are you demoing with trusty or utopic ?
[02:02] <bjf> stgraber, if trusty, yes 3/4 weeks. if utopic, sooner
[04:30] <stgraber> bjf: I currently run utopic with a trusty kernel because wifi sucks with the utopic one, but I don't really need wifi for the demo so I could reboot on 3.16
[18:02] <apw> stgraber, so this has been broken since before release in 3.13 and we didn't notice ?
[18:14] <stgraber> apw: no, this was broken by the last kernel upload to trusty
[18:15] <stgraber> oh, misread, sorry
[18:15] <stgraber> yeah, then, though that was in a security fix so it didn't exactly had much time to be tested in proposed
[18:15] <stgraber> or even upstream I suspect
[20:14] <israel> Hi, I have a non-PAE specific question regarding 14.04  is anyone available who understands this well enough
[20:17] <israel> according to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PAE (part C at the end) could dd 'install' 14.04 on a non-PAE machine rather than swapping out HD?
[20:35] <israel> hmmm... kinda quiet here...


 @KMyers grab IP Man Trilory for 3 bucks
 @ahoneybun, I already did earlier
 Oh snap
 https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/new-satan-ransomware-available-through-a-ransomware-as-a-service-/?_utm_source=1-2-2
 The first time that I see Trump look at his phone, this image will be posted to the US News Live Blog - https://usnews.today/2017/01/20/live-coverage-of-donald-trumps-inauguration/
 US government uses Verizon or AT&T
 Also, isn't sender usually on the right?
 I know, I need to do something to make these images obviously look fake to those who know what they are looking
 at
 Oh, that's a screenshot from his phone?
 Ok
 Thats the plan
 I am also making one where Melania is texting Michelle Obama to ask for her lines
 You sure it isn't rick astley?
 It is not but I would not be shocked to see it show up somewhere in there at one point
 I could not help myself - https://usnews.today/2017/01/20/donald-trump-to-be-sworn-in-on-the-art-of-the-deal/
 That's incredible
 Woah, your alive
 Yep
 MOOYAH Burgers, Fries & Shakes … https://goo.gl/maps/C8GMmrnXjjv
 Chipotle's new burger chain.
 Nice, I just hate going to Doral (or reallything further south than I am now)
 I would rather go to Saggys
 Where is that?  Entirely fictional?
 https://usnews.today/2017/01/19/saggys-opens-in-ft-lauderdale-florida-for-geriatric-customers/
 Of course it is fictional
 OK.  Well, I just ate at MOOYAH for lunch.  I included a piece of paper in each one directing them to the Autism Speaks donation page 😊
 http://act.autismspeaks.org/site/TR/Walk/PalmBeach?px=4011913&pg=personal&fr_id=2791
 I could take them to work.  I work with engineers. They are fascinated.
 Still a long way to go but nice start
 I will print up more. I have 10 of them now
 I will have about 15 bolts in a few hours as well
 I'm at work.  I'm building test cases for general Android Recovery mode.
 We found a device that had an exploit available in recovery.
 Adb root running?
 not by default.
 I can't say much more.
[20:02] <ahoneybun> I haz internet!
 http://jriddell.org/2017/01/20/kde-neon-inaugurated-with-calamares-installer/


[03:26] <RAOF> Urfh.  SoundMenu integration in Banshee has broken because libindicate-cil bumped assembly version.
[12:47] <MickStep> Does the "custom-time-format" key do anything in indicator-datetime? Because I changed it to be 24hr format using:
[12:47] <MickStep> gsettings set org.ayatana.indicator.datetime custom-time-format "'%k:%M'"
[12:47] <MickStep> to no effect.
[12:48] <MickStep> nevermind I just realised my mistake
[15:03] <lucidfox> What is the "official" way to ship light and dark monochrome icons with an application?
[15:03] <lucidfox> a third-party one, I mean, not in the default Ubuntu install
[15:15] <kklimonda> lucidfox: ship them in ubuntu-mono-dark and ubuntu-light-dark? that's what shutter does
[15:16] <lucidfox> except there's no guarantee that the user will be using one of those themes
[15:16] <kklimonda> lucidfox: indeed
[15:18] <kklimonda> lucidfox: if you ship both icons in one set there is no way of telling which one should be loaded.
[15:19] <lucidfox> hmm, you give me an idea
[15:19] <lucidfox> perhaps the application could dynamically determine if the panel is-- no, that way darkness lies
[15:21] <kklimonda> :)
[15:21] <kklimonda> Gtk+ will have a native support for symbolic icons and then the problem will go away.
[15:22] <kklimonda> Gtk+ 3*
[15:28] <lucidfox> Symbolic icons?
[15:31] <ScottK> tedg: Do we want Inscape 0.48.0 in Maverick?  Please comment in Bug 628048.
[15:31] <tedg> ScottK, Yes, will do.
[15:31] <ScottK> Thanks.
[15:34] <kklimonda> lucidfox: it's mainstream's way of saying that we suck ;)
[15:34] <kklimonda> lucidfox: j/k - it's their approach to use simple icons in panel
[15:35] <lucidfox> so wait
[15:35] <lucidfox> GTK3 will have its own functional equivalent of app indicators?
[15:35] <tedg> ScottK, Sorry about that, I thought someone had been working on getting it in after we released.  I didn't follow up :(
[15:35] <tedg> ScottK, Thanks for pinging me.
[15:36] <kklimonda> no, just a support for symbolic icons - gnome-shell developers also use them or at least planning on doing that
[15:36] <ScottK> tedg: No problem.  I know if you vouch for it, any problems will get addressed.
[15:37] <tedg> lucidfox, And hopefully we'll support the symbolic icons in the next release of the indicators.   I really wanted to this cycle but ran out of time :(
[15:37] <lucidfox> What *are* symbolic icons? -_-
[15:37]  * ScottK thought icons were symbolic enough on their own.
[15:38] <tedg> ScottK, Yes.  Though, I'd love to redo the packaging on it sometime, it's very... old.  If you find someone asking about how they can help (potential MOTU or something) have them ping me.
[15:38] <tedg> lucidfox, Basically it means that some of the colors in the SVG have symbolic names (alert) instead of color values.  So the colors themselves are then defined by the theme, and replaced as the SVG is loaded.
[15:39] <tedg> lucidfox, Hopefully it'll mean you can make one icon for a variety of themes instead of tons with one color different.
[15:39] <lucidfox> Ooh, neat
[16:18] <lucidfox> tedg, since, as I understand, you're the main developer of libappindicator...
[16:19] <lucidfox> What should I do if I want to add an indicator to a Qt application?
[16:19] <tedg> lucidfox, You should be able to use their standard KNSI interface.  That's what libappindicator is based on.
[16:19] <tedg> agateau, ^
[16:20] <lucidfox> That's in kdelibs
[16:20] <tedg> Oops, I think it's KSNI not KNSI.
[16:20] <lucidfox> I'm talking plain Qt -_-
[16:20] <agateau> lucidfox: right now there is no easy solution :/
[16:20] <agateau> lucidfox: but Qt devs want to add native support for appindicator in Qt itself
[16:20] <lucidfox> Ooh, neat
[16:21] <agateau> lucidfox: I know Quassel devs implemented ksni support themselves
[16:21] <lucidfox> :o
[16:21] <agateau> lucidfox: you might find useful code there
[16:21] <lucidfox> sounds like I might want to merge that into my Q-XDG library
[16:21] <lucidfox> along with Quassel's implementation of XDG notifications
[16:22] <agateau> lucidfox: oh you are the one who wrote the icon theme for Qt lib?
[16:22] <bratsche> How would that work, in a cross-platform sense, for Qt to add libappindicator support?
[16:22] <bratsche> I thought all the Qt API is supposed to basically work on the different platforms.
[16:23] <agateau> bratsche: they want their appindicator app to be a platform specific plugin
[16:23] <bratsche> Oh okay.
[16:23] <agateau> bratsche: Qt provides a class named QSystemTrayIcon
[16:23] <bratsche> Cool, was just curious.
[16:23] <agateau> bratsche: and they want the class to use appindicator when available
[16:23] <bratsche> Nice.
[16:23] <lucidfox> What?!
[16:23] <agateau> bratsche: but it's tricky because they don't want qtgui to depend on qtdbus...
[16:23] <lucidfox> How... would... that... work.
[16:24] <lucidfox> the indicator API is more restricted than tray icon APIs
[16:24] <agateau> lucidfox: true, but not that much
[16:24] <agateau> lucidfox: at least, the kde implementation
[16:24] <agateau> lucidfox: is not as limited as the ubuntu gnome one
[16:25] <bratsche> htorque around?
[16:26] <htorque> yes
[16:26] <lucidfox> agateu> Does it allow both left and right clicks?
[16:26] <bratsche> htorque: Were you posting some issues with appmenu-gtk showing erroneous menus?
[16:27] <agateau> lucidfox: it does
[16:27] <lucidfox> :(
[16:27] <lucidfox> defeats the point that Ayatana is trying to achieve, I think
[16:27] <agateau> lucidfox: it predates ayatana trying to achieve a point
[16:27] <lucidfox> hehe
[16:27] <bratsche> Oh wait, it was Omer Akram.
[16:27] <htorque> bratsche, ok :)
[16:27] <bratsche> Sorry.
[16:28] <agateau> lucidfox: but I agree left and right click distinction is not a good idea
[16:29] <lucidfox> Hmm... I wonder if upstream GNOME could just port GtkStatusIcon to this indicator thing
[16:29] <lucidfox> while allowing unrestricted use of the old API... probably not, though
[16:29] <lucidfox> it allows way too much
[16:30] <agateau> I have no idea there
[16:30]  * agateau works on kde
[16:31] <bratsche> One of the main issues is that upstream Gnome doesn't really want to depend upon packages from Launchpad.
[16:31] <bratsche> They tend to prefer things to be hosted on git.gnome.org or git.freedesktop.org
[16:31] <kklimonda> bratsche: libindicator wouldn't be the first canonical project that is being hosted on git.gnome.org
[16:32] <kklimonda> couchdb-glib's main repository is already there.
[16:32] <kklimonda> I'd say that if there is a chance of getting indicator into upstream Gtk+ that would be worth the effort of moving development there :)
[16:34] <lucidfox> I agree fully
[16:34] <bratsche> Another issue that upstream has is that we require copyright assignment on our modules.
[16:34] <bratsche> kklimonda, lucidfox: I'm not disagreeing with you.  I'm just pointing out the reasons why it's difficult to do, and probably won't happen soon.
[16:35] <lucidfox> By the way, I'm really liking the changes to GTK3 so far
[16:35] <bratsche> Although Evolution was originally also copyright-assignment, and that didn't stop it from being in Gnome.
[16:35] <kklimonda> bratsche: copyright assignment also can be worked around - Intel has a similar one for clutter. I'm not saying it's easy to do -especially that gtk+ devs have some objections to code itself but it's worth it.
[16:36] <lucidfox> They removed all GDK drawing primitives in favor of Cairo
[16:36] <bratsche> Yeah, Company has been working on that.  Awesome stuff.
[16:36] <lucidfox> which means, ironically, that GDK no longer means GIMP Drawing Kit
[16:36] <lucidfox> but then it never meant that :)
[16:36] <lucidfox> really, that is
[16:40] <lucidfox> brasche, I take it you're intimately familiar with upstream GTK development? Because I have a few questions I've gathered after observing it from the outside
[16:41] <pavolzetor> Hallo, I need help with libindicate and icons
[16:44] <jcastro> hi klattimer
[16:44] <klattimer> hi jcastro hows it going
[16:44] <jcastro> I hear you've got more hours than I thought
[16:44] <jcastro> do you still have bugs in your queue?
[16:45] <klattimer> only a few
[16:45] <jcastro> ok
[16:45] <klattimer> I've been trawling through the last week of bugmail today
[16:45] <jcastro> ok
[16:45] <jcastro> let me check the list
[16:45] <klattimer> there's a few things which have gone from my bug queue and I think there are still pending issues
[16:45] <klattimer> so I'm looking to poke those a bit
[16:46] <klattimer> you might want to assign me some new high prior stuff if you like
[16:46] <jcastro> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/~karl-qdh/+assignedbugs
[16:46] <jcastro> is this it?
[16:48] <jcastro> tedg: kenvandine: what's up with https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-application/+bug/558841
[16:48] <jcastro> klattimer: ah, on that one you forgot to assign it to the desktop team so they can ship it
[16:49] <klattimer> jcastro: I haven't been able to assign to the desktop team for some time
[16:49] <klattimer> :/
[16:49] <klattimer> not sure what's gone wrong
[16:49] <jcastro> oh ok, no worries
[16:49] <klattimer> recently I've just poked seb about it
[16:49] <klattimer> that one might have slipped the net
[16:50] <jcastro> ok, manual poking is always better anyway
[16:50] <jcastro> what's the deal with this g-p-m leak? Maybe that would be a good one to finish off
[16:51] <klattimer> yeah was thinking of giving it a poke tomorrow and retesting to see if it still exists
[16:51] <jcastro> k
[16:52] <jcastro> ok let's do this
[16:52] <jcastro> keep pinging seb and kenvandine about the bt bug
[16:52] <jcastro> finish off the keyboard indicators, since those are really visible
[16:52] <jcastro> and then look at g-p-m
[16:52] <klattimer> k
[16:53] <jcastro> the kb indicator looks great btw
[16:53] <jcastro> well, other than the icon bug thing
[16:53] <jcastro> but whatever. :)
[16:54] <tedg> jcastro, I think that ayan was looking at that one.
[16:54] <tedg> jcastro, It seems to be a GTK thing.  He's got a test program that can cause it in GTK.
[16:54] <pavolzetor> could you help ome?
[16:54] <klattimer> icon bug?
[16:54] <klattimer> which icon bug?
[16:55] <jcastro> klattimer: the 2 icons thing?
[16:55] <pavolzetor> I don't know if it is bug
[16:55] <tedg> jcastro, The GPM one (if I wasn't clear)
[16:55] <klattimer> oh, the ibus and gsm showing the keyboards?
[16:55] <pavolzetor> I wanna add icon to message.im
[16:55] <jcastro> yeah
[16:55] <jcastro> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ayatana-ubuntu/+bug/620331
[16:55] <pavolzetor> but program ends with segfault
[16:55] <klattimer> yeah, well fixable with flags
[16:55] <klattimer> bug we need flags which match mpt's style requirements
[16:55] <jcastro> we're waaay past Beta
[16:56] <klattimer> yeah I know
[16:56] <jcastro> I doubt we'll be getting flags any time soon
[16:56] <mpt> I don't have flag style requirements
[16:56] <tedg> pavolzetor, Can you pastebin the code that's setting the icon?
[16:56] <klattimer> well, for next cycle I'll be merging ibus and kb indicator into a single indicator and capplet
[16:56] <mpt> oh cool
[16:56] <klattimer> mpt you do, "two letters in a box"
[16:56] <klattimer> that's teh flags
[16:56] <klattimer> "flags" are just what they're called in the code
[16:56] <mpt> aha
[16:56] <jcastro> ok so what do we do with this bug for Maverick
[16:57] <klattimer> well, not a great deal unfortunately
[16:57] <jcastro> can we turn the icon off?
[16:57] <klattimer> we could drop the icon, but mpt seemed against that
[16:57] <jcastro> ok
[16:57] <klattimer> i.e. drop the icon, show only the label
[16:57] <jcastro> mpt: let's make a decision now, if we're going to defer I'd like to get him working on things we can fix
[16:57] <klattimer> with the showFlags gconf key turned on, only an icon is shown, but we need flags in order to do that
[16:57] <pavolzetor> shit, where can I get support for libindicate?
[16:58] <mpt> I'm not against it UI-wise as a temporary thing, it would just require a temporary API change just for that, which would be weird
[16:59] <klattimer> I suppose it's how tedg feels about the api change
[17:00] <tedg> klattimer, There shouldn't be a change required for icon only...
[17:00] <tedg> klattimer, Or do you mean icon and radio on the menu item?
[17:00] <klattimer> I mean hiding the icon from the indicator and only showing a label
[17:00] <mpt> tedg, they're talking about text-only titles
[17:01] <mpt> ... temporarily
[17:01] <tedg> mpt, klattimer, Ah.  Hmm, not sure where that's enforced.
[17:02] <tedg> I don't care that much, but it just means that on KDE it won't work at all.
[17:02] <tedg> As they don't have the label.
[17:04] <klattimer> hmm, well that puts us in a bit of a catch 22
[17:04] <mpt> I'm surprised you're still considering this 2.5 weeks after UI freeze.
[17:04] <klattimer> yeah, it's a bit late
[17:05] <klattimer> but we'd more or less decided just to leave it icon+label for now anyway
[17:05] <klattimer> there's not so much we can do about it in the short term
[17:05] <mpt> Set it to Natty and move on.
[17:05] <klattimer> if we get flags drawn, switching the gconf key and doing that would solve it
[17:05] <tedg> +1
[17:06] <klattimer> for natty I'll be merging ibus+kb indicator anyway
[17:06] <klattimer> so we'll only have one icon for both
[17:14] <tedg> ronoc, ping
[17:14] <ronoc> tedg, pong
[19:58] <vish> gah! appmenu doesnt notice when the app has frozen :/
[19:59] <vish> banshee just frozen but still the appmenu shows the menu! while it does not have any effect on banshee though :(  cant even effect a force quit by hitting the close buttons..
[19:59] <vish> had to unmaximize and then do a force quit.
[20:58] <htorque> hello, if there are some missing-icons icons in an appmenu, should this be reported (per application)?
[23:05] <bratsche> htorque: Yeah, I would report them per-application for now.
[23:11] <htorque> bratsche, thanks! actually those are icons, that are only shown when having menus_have_icons enabled, so after reading the comment from mpt on bug 608584 i'm not sure what to do


[16:10] <bkerensa> valorie: Is Washington having a Global Jam event of any sort?
[16:10] <bkerensa> I'm on video conference with Jono's team discussing global jam so were trying to see which locos worldwide are doing an event


[04:58] <jonafan_> hello
[04:59] <jonafan_> so ubuntu one allows applications to support synchronization with the magic of couchdb
[05:00] <burzki> according to linux outlaws?
[05:00] <jonafan_> i am curious, how is that superior to just keeping your apps data in ordinary files in your ubuntu one folder
[05:03] <burzki> i'm no expert.  i think it hasn't been tested much, still in development
[05:03] <burzki> that might be a hassle for normal users
[05:06] <jonafan_> hmm
[05:06] <jonafan_> i still don't get it
[05:08] <burzki> have you tried it.  does it work fine?
[05:09] <jonafan_> well yeah, i tried putting a file on it and also tried enabling the tomboy support
[05:09] <jonafan_> but i don't really use tomboy and only have one linux machine that i use heavily
[05:09] <jonafan_> it seems to work though
[05:10] <jonafan_> i've used drop box for a while
[05:17] <burzki> were you asking about files or apps data?  same thing?  maybe i misunderstood
[05:18] <burzki> thought you meant apps data as configs and prefs, etc.
[05:22] <jonafan_> whatever the couchdb thing is
[05:23] <jonafan_> i don't understand how it's different from just keeping config files on ubuntu one directory
[05:26] <burzki> couchdb is a database, platform neutral. configures differently than mysql, ie. -- i know i wouldn't want to go around my system for all the app configs to get them into the One folder
[05:27] <burzki> try this for more .. http://twit.tv/floss99
[05:28] <jonafan_> i actually i listened to that at work today
[05:30] <jonafan_> i've heard a lot of pitches, but i just don't what's impressive about it
[05:30] <jonafan_> i'm not trying to be negative, i just don't understand
[05:32] <jonafan_> well placed symbolic links provide this kind of functionality in a way that is transparent to the applications
[05:32] <burzki> dont understand One, or how it works .. ?
[05:32] <burzki> got it
[05:36] <jonafan_> well i'm wicked tired
[05:37] <jonafan_> i'm sure some app will come out some day that will show how obviously awesome couchdb integration is
[05:37] <jonafan_> goodnizzle
[11:16] <b1ackcr0w> im teaching myself about symlinking this morning
[11:16] <b1ackcr0w>  if i symlinked a conf file in my home directory
[11:16] <b1ackcr0w>  to one that didn't exist in an ubuntu one folder
[11:16] <b1ackcr0w>  would that file get backed up?
[12:14] <b1ackcr0w> honk
[16:32] <jelmer_> Hello
[16:59] <verterok> jelmer_: hi
[17:00] <jelmer_> hey Guillermo
[17:01] <jelmer_> Do you know if there are any plans for a desktopcouch backend for gconf?
[17:01] <verterok> jelmer_: I think there is
[17:01]  * verterok digg in the mail
[17:05] <verterok> jelmer_: I can't find the reference
[17:05] <verterok> jelmer_: but I think some user asked about that
[17:06] <jelmer_> ah, cool
[17:06] <jelmer_> that'd be a killer feature, at least for me
[17:06] <verterok> jelmer_: I think isn't in the plan for lucid, but if someone in the community works on it that would be great ;)
[17:16]  * verterok -> out
[17:16] <verterok> later!
[17:18] <jelmer_> verterok: ttyl!
[18:32] <TimH1> Honk.
[18:38] <riverbird> is there a way i can get tomboy off an 8.04 machine up into One, so that i can get it back down to my new machine?
[18:38] <riverbird> and possibly vice-versa?
[18:51] <riverbird> i'll take that as a not possible or not known .. thx
[23:41] <Izinucs> I've got one machine running Intrepid.. how do I get Tomboy on that machine to sync with ubuntu one?
[23:42] <Izinucs> My version of Tomboy doesn't have a "Tomboy Web" sync option.


[03:38] <ScottK> When I test build partitionmanager locally, the plugins go in /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/ (which is I believe correct), but on the buildds they get put in /usr/lib/kde4, which I know is wrong.
[03:38] <ScottK> Suggestions on why that might be appreicated.
[03:48] <ScottK> That or p.u.c is just wrong.
[07:16] <soee> good morning
[08:15] <soee> ScottK: hi, i checked teh partitionmanager here @ work and have the same issue we talked yesterday
[09:06] <lordievader> Good morning.
[09:27] <Riddell> ScottK: good stuff on the new partitionmanager, I take it you tested it out and it does create and delete partitions?
[09:27] <Riddell> (just the last version I tried to package didn't, but I assume this one does as an official release)
[09:28]  * sitter upgrading to vivid
[09:33] <Riddell> sitter: will you switch the kci images over to vivid?
[09:33] <sitter> Riddell: it's what I said at last week's plasma meeting :(
[09:33] <sitter> you never listen :'<
[09:34] <Riddell> lo siento
[09:46]  * Riddell blogs http://wire.kubuntu.org/?p=218
[09:59] <valorie> I dunno why we aren't on top; we provide most all of the top choices: http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-news-59/2014-linuxquestions-org-members-choice-award-winners-4175532948/
[10:00] <sitter> valorie: we are
[10:00] <sitter> youbuntoo
[10:01] <valorie> yeah but
[10:02] <valorie> Prometheus is a cool name
[10:02] <valorie> so is Vivid
[10:04] <sitter> what does that have to do with the poll though? ^^
[10:05] <valorie> nothing really, and the poll is just a poll
[10:05] <sitter> the distro poll had 910 people voting apparently xD
[10:06] <valorie> anybody here going to mentor for GSoC this year?
[10:06] <valorie> or participate as a student
[10:11] <Riddell> Slackware is Desktop Distribution of the Year?
[10:12] <Riddell> valorie: do you think we should have a kubuntu project for gsoc?
[10:13] <sitter> our distribution upgrader needs a slideshow
[10:13] <sitter> so boring
[10:13] <valorie> I'm not sure we have something that would be a full-time job for a summer
[10:13] <valorie> buffing up our kubuntu-only software, maybe?
[10:14] <valorie> because it has to be code
[10:17] <sitter> just sneak in kubuntu projects with kde? ;)
[10:17] <valorie> kubuntu is part of KDE, so no sneaking required
[10:18] <sitter> https://trello.com/c/hEmmytDF gdebi-kde is still a thing?
[10:18] <sitter> what Oo
[10:18] <kubotu> [Epics :: To Do :: Port away from kdesudo to kdesu ++ ]
[10:19] <Riddell> port ubiquity to qt 5
[10:19] <sitter> Riddell: that's nowhere near enough effort
[10:19] <Riddell> I'm always surprised that canonical's design team haven't improved the release upgrade tool
[10:19] <Riddell> followed by porting everything to qt 5
[10:20] <sitter> jens also didn't want to make a design for it ;)
[10:20] <sitter> Riddell: everything?
[10:20] <Riddell> sitter: all of kde software :)
[10:20] <sitter> yeah, well, that's not a very concrete objective :P
[10:20] <sitter> at any rate, ubiquity qt5 is like changing imports
[10:21] <sitter> I don't think it even uses kde classes anywhere
[10:21] <Riddell> plasma people say they're going to depend on systemd from the end of the year
[10:21] <sitter> so it'd be mostly an excersise in sedding and possibly getting rid of old crap code that was necessary because qt4 had insufficiencies (e.g. qicon::fromtheme never was used I think)
[10:22] <Riddell> seems like a nice exercise to me
[10:22] <sitter> for a week maybe
[10:23] <Riddell> there's plenty of ubiquity bugs too, like that bloody keyboard issue
[10:24] <sitter> project: move to calamares ;)
[10:24] <sitter> http://i.imgur.com/DDypiZ1.jpg <- iconfail
[10:24]  * sitter rebooting
[10:35] <sitter> vlc is still broken and crashing qt5 software :)
[10:36] <Riddell> it is?
[10:36] <Riddell> the app or the library?
[10:43] <sitter> lib
[10:43] <sitter> actually I think this was fixed in debian
[10:43] <sitter> so perhaps a merge is in order
[10:43]  * sitter has messed up fonts >.<
[10:52] <sitter> needs cherrypicking from http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/pkg-multimedia/vlc.git/log/?h=experimental apparently
[10:52] <sitter> the vlc stuff
[11:24] <sitter> Mirv, mitya57: qtbase-dev contains qt5openglconfig.cmake but doesn't pull in libqt5opengl5 (also there's a dev package for that apparently?) http://paste.ubuntu.com/10271812/
[11:24] <sitter> smells like a bug
[11:24]  * sitter feels like he complaiend about this before
[11:53] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[12:13] <BluesKaj> soee, you mentioned yesterday we should receive some improvements with plasma 5.2.x on thurs, correct? Any idea what they might be?
[12:18] <soee> BluesKaj: basicaly a lot of bugfixes, there are already also some parts (if not all) of QT 5.4 in so it profides also some fixes
[12:19] <soee> i think with QT 5.4 system works a bit smoother, and my window lag is gone (not sure if it is because of QT 5.4)
[12:21] <BluesKaj> no switching lag here , just loading seems to be slower than normal
[12:24] <soee> yup, booting time is slower than in 14.10
[12:28] <BluesKaj> do you have systemd as default, soee?
[12:29] <BluesKaj> because I haven't noticed any faster boot times withj it
[12:31] <soee> BluesKaj: if vivid is not using it by default, i dont have it
[12:36] <BluesKaj> soee, you have to install systemd-sysv to make it default afaik
[12:36] <BluesKaj> brb
[12:43] <soee> BluesKaj: probably, but i stick to current one until systemd become default
[12:43] <BluesKaj> works ok so far, no glitches
[12:43] <soee> im curious what the Plasma 5 feature list will be :)
[12:43] <soee> *5.3
[12:43] <BluesKaj> yeah, same here
[12:44] <soee> BluesKaj: are you on Vivid maybe ?
[12:45] <BluesKaj> yes,
[12:46] <BluesKaj> konversation is slow switching between chatroom tabs
[12:47] <BluesKaj> are you on quassel?
[12:51] <soee> BluesKaj: nope, konversation and works fine
[12:52] <soee> BluesKaj: can you confirm that it is impossible to run partitionmanager ?
[12:53] <BluesKaj> yes I can confirm ,...unable to launch blah blah blah...
[12:54] <soee> hmm kded5 and baloo_file started to use 25% cpu each
[12:55] <BluesKaj> here's the message  http://pastebin.com/h1YRLvwX
[12:55] <BluesKaj> aboyt kpartioner
[12:56] <BluesKaj> err kpartitioner
[12:56] <sitter> that's broken kdesu
[12:59] <BluesKaj> I tried dus-launch etc and nothing, so I installed gparted
[12:59] <BluesKaj> err dbus
[13:01] <Riddell> new konversation is in vivid if anyone wants to test it
[13:01] <soee> :O
[13:01] <soee> BluesKaj: yup that message but if you try to run it from terminal, you will get infor about missing plugin or something
[13:02] <BluesKaj> Riddell, Version 1.6-beta1 ?
[13:02] <Riddell> yep
[13:02] <BluesKaj> ok running it
[13:03] <Riddell> great
[13:03] <BluesKaj> there's a lag switching between chats
[13:03] <BluesKaj> otherwise it's fine sofar
[13:03] <soee> oh iv been running it whole day i think if it is from latets upgrades
[13:04] <soee> not a single lag for me :)
[13:05] <BluesKaj> I put Vivid on an old hdd I rescued from a Bell pvr that became obsolete, so that might have an influence
[13:08] <BluesKaj> it's a WD 250G drive, connected in an outboard enclosure with esata to sata connection
[13:12] <BluesKaj> of course the pc itself is a bit long in the tooth at 7yrs old/amd dual core 5200+ cpu...not exactly SOTA :)
[13:14] <Riddell> sitter: new about-distro is uploaded to vivid
[13:15] <sitter> \o/
[13:20] <soee> BluesKaj: but for a Kubuntu thosre arent bad specs for PC :-)
[13:20] <soee> plasmashell uses ~115 mb :)
[13:21] <Mirv> sitter: mitya57: it does recommend libqt5opengl5-dev, but if you think it stills should be handled differently you could file a Debian bug since we've no delta there
[13:21] <soee> only th PHPStorm and FirefoxDevs are hogs for me :|
[13:23] <BluesKaj> soee, yeah I'll keep this old thing til it dies ...I still ahve an old HP from 1998 that still ticks :)
[13:24] <soee> ;D
[13:24] <sitter> Mirv: :O I thought recommends get installed on buildds by default?
[13:24] <sitter> full log in question https://launchpadlibrarian.net/197920890/buildlog_ubuntu-vivid-amd64.kdenlive_0.9.50%2Bgit20150217.1118%2B15.04-0ubuntu0_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[13:25] <sitter> mh, apparently it doesn't
[13:27] <Riddell> [ubuntu/vivid] digikam 4:4.7.0-0ubuntu1 (Accepted)
[13:27] <Riddell> awooga
[13:27] <Riddell> BluesKaj: soee: more new stuff to test ↑
[13:29] <sitter> Riddell: still no bluez5 oh my oh my oh my
[13:29] <Riddell> or systemd
[13:29] <Riddell> makes you wonder what these ubuntu developers are doing all day
[13:30] <sitter> playing pong on their phones, that's what I'd do
[13:30] <sitter> #QA
[13:31] <sitter> hm
[13:31] <sitter> 13:03:15
[13:31] <sitter> 13:03:15 The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[13:31] <sitter> 13:03:15  bluedevil : Depends: bluez (>= 5) but it is not going to be installed
[13:31] <sitter> 13:03:15              Depends: bluez-obexd but it is not installable
[13:31] <sitter> that actually blocks kci promotion
[13:34] <Riddell> 13:31 < didrocks> Riddell: syncing with the Touch team is today (in a couple of hours), will keep you posted
[13:34] <Riddell> 13:31 < didrocks> Riddell: the desktop-side is almost fully ready, won't block anyway
[13:34] <Riddell> sitter: ↑
[13:34] <BluesKaj> Riddell, digikam is in dependency hell on my pc http://pastebin.com/NVA1ZXf6
[13:34] <sitter> see, the touch team is playing pong instead of making bluez happen :P
[13:34] <Riddell> it should be libkgeomap2
[13:35] <Riddell> BluesKaj: are you sure you're installing 4:4.7.0-0ubuntu1
[13:36] <soee> whre do you get those upgrades from ? :)
[13:36] <Riddell> which upgrades?
[13:36] <soee> digikam
[13:36] <soee> wait i thought i had it isntalled, have to check
[13:36] <Riddell> digikam 4:4.7.0-0ubuntu1 is in vivid, you'll need to use archive.ubuntu.com
[13:37] <Riddell> systemd 13:36 < pitti> Riddell: still blocked on fixing bug 1312976 (slangasek), and updating juju and maas :(
[13:37] <sitter> 4.7.0 isn't in the archive yet
[13:37] <soee> i have the main server, apt=cache policy shows: Kandydująca:   4:4.2.0-0ubuntu1
[13:37] <sitter> publishing delay one supposes
[13:37] <BluesKaj> Riddell I'm on Vivid
[13:38] <Riddell> oh you're right I'm installing from -proposed
[13:38] <Riddell> well wait an hour or two
[13:38] <BluesKaj> right
[13:39] <sitter> Riddell: that is rather short list fortunately, is the plan still to land systemd this cycle?
[13:39] <Riddell> sitter: I guess so
[13:40] <sitter> let's hope then
[13:40] <BluesKaj> i have systemd on both 14.10 and 15.04 and seem to be working well
[13:41] <Riddell> I just noticed feature freeze is on thursday this week
[13:42] <Riddell> Sput: I may have read that wrong when talking to you ↑
[13:42] <sitter> hence my whining on all fronts :P
[13:42] <Riddell> (in which case we can get an exception)
[13:42] <sitter> still need to land upgrader IMO
[13:42] <Riddell> upgrader?
[13:42] <sitter> qt5 port
[13:42] <Riddell> does that exist?
[13:42] <sitter> https://code.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-packagers/ubuntu-release-upgrader/qt5/+merge/229620
[13:43] <sitter> I am actually content to say that we shouldn't be trying to use pyqt5 on trusty and perhaps not even utopic. former in particular shouldn't really have an expectation of being tested well enough
[13:45] <sitter> oh apport also needs porting, although IIRC that was a bit more work as it actually uses kde classes
[13:45] <sitter> albeit, there we can also go full qt now
[13:46] <Riddell> lazy me needs to review it
[13:47] <sitter> translation loading in the upgrader was a bit fishy IIRC
[13:51] <Riddell> hi manchicken
[13:59] <Sput> Riddell: nope, you told me it's on Thursday actually
[14:00] <Sput> so we're on track; the KF5 port is done, and I intend to tag a feature-frozen beta1 on Wed night
[14:01] <Sput> also mamarley has a PPA with working nightly packages for kubuntu with KF5 integration, in case you want to save time for packaging you could just have a look at his
[14:01] <Sput> sitter, ScottK ^
[14:03] <Riddell> thanks Sput
[14:05] <Sput> yw :)
[14:05] <Sput> always good to have a deadline to get stuff done!
[14:57] <ScottK> soee: I'm still trying to figure out why it doesn't find the plugins.  It does look like they are installed to the correct locations.
[14:59] <mitya57> sitter: I think we should move Qt5OpenGLConfig.cmake from qtbase5-dev to libqt5opengl5-dev
[14:59] <sitter> mitya57: seems reasonable
[15:00] <mitya57> Btw the whole opengl module is deprecated, that's one of the reason why we split it out
[15:02] <sitter> kdenlive is a newly ported app
[15:02]  * sitter just grepped and neither frameworks nor plasma use it apparently \o/
[15:09] <mitya57> sitter: http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/pkg-kde/qt/qtbase.git/commit/?id=04c048339765c488
[15:11] <Quintasan> Riddell: ping
[15:11] <sitter> mitya57: <3
[15:13] <Riddell> hi Quintasan
[15:13] <Quintasan> You got me confused now with the ksnake
[15:13] <Quintasan> >probably just needs ksnakeduel binary and .desktop removed from cmake and it's good to go
[15:14] <Quintasan> Why would we want to remove the ksnakeduel binary?
[15:15] <Riddell> Quintasan: because there's already kdesnake ?
[15:15] <Riddell> ksnakeduel is just kdesnake loaded with another profile isn't it? and there's a menu item to do that
[15:16] <Quintasan> Uh no.
[15:16] <Quintasan> At least I don't think so
[15:16] <Quintasan> ktron == ksnakeduel
[15:16] <Quintasan> ksnake = ksnakeduel --snake
[15:16] <sitter> Oo
[15:17]  * sitter consults with the coffee robot
[15:17] <Riddell> oh there's a frameworks branch too which isn't merged :(
[15:18] <sitter> they are all over the place
[15:18] <sitter> half the apps have ports that aren't in master for reasons behond my apprehension
[15:18] <sitter> also, coffee robot says EOUTOFBEANS if that helps with the snake dicussion :P
[15:18] <Riddell> people too scared of causing offence like with print-manager maybe
[15:19] <Quintasan> Riddell: http://im9.eu/picture/ds3820
[15:19] <Quintasan> That's ksnakeduel (the binary is named ktron
[15:19] <Quintasan> if you run that with --snake switch it goes to single player mode
[15:20] <Riddell> and there's no UI to do that?
[15:20] <sitter> I think I need to merge dragon port into master
[15:20] <Quintasan> There is an ui
[15:20] <sitter> lukas totally inherited maintainership but didn't do it I think :P
[15:20] <Quintasan> Riddell: Typ gry is "Game mode" roughly translated
[15:20] <Quintasan> And there is "KSnake mode" in the dropdown
[15:21] <Riddell> right, so no need for two binaries
[15:21] <Quintasan> There are no two binaries.  I'll just rename ktron to ksnakeduel and get rid of kdesnake binary and desktop file
[15:24] <Quintasan> This got really confusing all of sudden
[15:24] <Riddell> for such a simple program, it does mess with your mind
[15:26] <sitter> why are we meddling with this anyway?
[15:26] <Quintasan> Copyright issues
[15:26] <sitter> surely that should be addressed upstream?
[15:27] <Riddell> we are addressing it upstream
[15:27] <sitter> ok
[15:27] <sitter> I'll shut up then :P
[15:27] <Riddell> it's a trademark issue but that's mostly gone, it's more a tidying up the packaging issue which needs fixed upstream
[15:29] <Quintasan> Okay, so how the hell do I build this now
[15:30] <Quintasan> Qt went apeshit on my system
[15:31] <Quintasan> what
[15:52] <Quintasan> I just changed the goddamn path
[15:52] <Quintasan> T_T
[15:57] <BluesKaj> /me avoids paths of the damned :)
[15:58] <Quintasan> blargh
[15:58] <Quintasan> Let me revert it
[16:01] <Quintasan> sitter: Do you perhaps know how does KXMLGUIClient magic work?
[16:28] <Quintasan> Riddell: Can you please add http://paste.ubuntu.com/10275569/ to your reviewboard suggestion (https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/121589/) ?
[16:29] <Quintasan> I don't know how does review board handle removals
[16:29] <Quintasan> But we need to get rid of kdesnake.desktop
[16:29] <Quintasan> A total rename is impossible for me at this point since I can't figure out why it doesn't look for themes in the new path after I rename literally everything
[16:33] <sitter> Quintasan: push your work somewhere
[16:33] <Riddell> yeah give me the whole diff
[16:34] <sitter> Quintasan: I presume it doesnt load the xml config?
[16:37] <sitter> well I gotta run
[16:37] <sitter> Quintasan: make sure the kaboutdata in main.cpp use the new name and the gui rc file is installed with that name
[16:37] <sitter> that's how kxmlgui knows which rc to use
[16:37]  * sitter out
[16:41] <Riddell> hmm, guess it's time for 14.04.2
[16:50] <Quintasan> Riddell: Okay, moment please
[16:51] <Riddell> well I need to leave soon too
[16:54] <Quintasan> Riddell: https://github.com/Quintasan/ksnakeduel
[17:03] <Riddell> Quintasan: any idea how to get a diff compared to the kde git repository?
[17:12] <Quintasan> Riddell: I guess you could try applying the diff on top of the git repository
[17:12] <Quintasan> But that hardly solves the problem
[19:11] <trevize> hello, have a question regarding usb speeds. when I plug my usb disk I have full write speed 30/mbs, dmesg shows ehci-pci. but when I plug another usb device on another usb port, the usb disk gets disconnected and then reconnects using uhci_hcd while usb speed drops to kbits. Is there any way to fix this?
[19:16] <vip> hello there; there is no sddm package in http://www.kubuntu.org/news/plasma-5.2 -> ppa:kubuntu-ppa/next-backports
[19:16] <vip> should I use https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa/+archive/ubuntu/next instead? (for 14.10)
[20:04] <soee> Riddell: digikam 4.7 works pretty nice
[20:52] <soee> !package sni-qt
[23:05] <stikonas> ScottK: you asked me to ping you... partitionmanager-1.2.1.tar.xz is almost ready (just waiting for it to be mirrored)
[23:05] <ScottK> stikonas: OK.  Thanks.
[23:05] <stikonas> I also changed the homepage inside the app...
[23:06] <stikonas> The previous domain owned by Volker Lanz has expired after he passed away...
[23:06] <ScottK> stikonas: I still didn't work out why the plugins weren't found.  Near as I can tell, they were in the right place.
[23:06] <ScottK> OK.
[23:06] <ScottK> We'll try again with 1.2.1.


[00:36] <len-dt> ailo, ya I've been busy too. I need to package my mode change stuff and add a config tool. I will try to make it open and not set to specific tweaks.
[00:36] <len-dt> That way a user who has special needs can still do something we haven't thought of.
[00:38] <len-dt> Or it can be used for other purposes besides US.
[00:41] <len-dt> If nothing else it may make testing easier.
[13:40] <scott-work> sorry all, have been sick since monday but i'm feeling much better now
[15:06] <ailo> scott-work: Seemed like there might have been a bit of hesitance adding -lowlatency for UKT maintenance :P
[15:06] <ailo> I was just thinking about the motivation to add it
[15:07] <ailo> Since we will absolutely want it in, no matter which way, and the diff is just a couple of configs, it seems like the best course of action. I guess this is what we have already formulated
[15:09] <ailo> Also, the configs are not only there for improving audio performance. They are more or less absolutely needed
[15:10] <ailo> I know we all know this, but I wonder what the guys at UKT are thinking about this
[15:18] <scott-work> ailo: i spoke with leann late last week on irc after several emails back and forth
[15:18] <scott-work> her original concern was adding back another kernel into their responsibility after they had reduced the numbers
[15:19] <scott-work> her current concern is validation of usage, to which she submitted an RT ticket to get the download numbers for the studio image
[15:20] <scott-work> leann mentioned that one reason the non-pae i386 kernel was dropped was because of low, and dwindling, usage numbers
[15:21] <scott-work> however, if the download numbers do not justify UKT maintaining the kernel, leann was very gracious to offer help creating scripts that would minimize the work for updating the lowlatency kernel
[19:46] <ailo> scott-work_: Interesting to know download numbers for sure. Has anyone had any info on this before? I can understand wanting to use that as a meter, but from my point of view, the nessecity to have it as the default kernel for Ubuntu Studio, something that other distros do not suffer from (needing a special kernel), makes it a special case. Perhaps if it doesn't end up being maintained by UKT, it will hopefully gain popularity
[19:48] <ailo> We should also do more advertising for it. Perhaps highlight it just to make it more visible
[19:56] <scott-work_> ailo: i seem to remember cory or pesia had posted a link a long time ago
[19:56] <scott-work_> i don't remember anything specific, other than perhaps 64bit seemed to double that of 32bit over a period of time
[20:00] <ailo> An item we should add to testing is to make some sort of general comparison between -generic and -lowlatency. The cons and pros. Probably the only downside is higher use of power, and it would be good to be able to show how much.
[20:01] <ailo> I should start a scratchpad for things like this.
[20:09] <ailo> Or add some items to blueprints
[20:10] <ailo> Seems like the best way after all :P
[20:35] <Len-nb> scott-work_, good to see you back, sorry to hear you were sick.
[20:36] <scott-work_> ailo: definitely add it to the blueprint, that way it might inspire others to think of something else :)
[20:36] <scott-work_> Len-nb: thanks
[20:38] <Len-nb> scott-work_, do you have a midi IF? If so what kind? ( looking for non-mpu401 compatible)
[20:39] <scott-work_> no, i don't have any MIDI gear
[20:39] <Len-nb> Ok, there have been problems with USB MIDI IFs. I can't test it though.
[20:40] <Len-nb> I wanted to see if the problem was wider than just one instance.
[20:51] <Len-nb> ailo, I don't think the Low latency kernel would add much power use over the generic. On it's own the change will not make the cpu work harder. That would depend on the software running. "ondemand" still sets the cpu to half speed on idle and the RT stuff only gets used when SW that uses it runs. That SW would have the same effect on generic too.
[20:52] <Len-nb> ailo, setting swappiness to 10 instead of 60 would decrease power use.
[20:53] <Len-nb> speaking of swappiness, there has been a move in the linux world towards lower numbers. RH now defaults to 40.
[20:54] <Len-nb> on my two machines I have swappiness set to 0 on one and 10 on the other.
[20:56] <Len-nb> even though they are both low memory machines (1 G) there is no difference in swapping with normal use.
[20:56] <ailo> Len-nb: I've heard that -lowlatency might require more power. Would be good to find out
[20:56] <Len-nb> in both cases after a days use swap had no use.
[20:57] <Len-nb> ailo, figuring a test case might not be too easy. I do have a power meter though.
[20:58] <ailo> Jeez, my nvidia card fan is having a real concerto today.
[20:58] <ailo> Len-nb: If there is a way, we'll find it
[20:59] <Len-nb> have to measure both low use and high use cases.
[21:00] <ailo> One could ask the question why does Ubuntu not use a higher resolution by default
[21:00] <ailo> For the timer
[21:01] <Len-nb> ailo, I had thought of that :-) yes.
[21:01] <ailo> Also, what does preempt do, that would be bad for other uses
[21:01] <Len-nb> timer
[21:02] <Len-nb> the high res timer is there, but not available to userland
[21:03] <Len-nb> ailo, I think in due time these changes will become main steam
[21:03] <Len-nb> settable on boot anyway.
[21:04] <ailo> Actually, that might be something worth trying to hack
[21:04] <ailo> Would mean we don't need -lowlatency. Just some boot options
[21:07] <Len-nb> ailo, if there is a general trend to command line options, that could be a problem too. There used to be a limit to command line length...
[21:08] <Len-nb> so what we want is the kernel config to be something like yes/no/cl
[21:10] <ailo> Would be even better if those changes could be done during runtime
[21:10] <ailo> I'm not about to try to code it yet anyway :P
[21:12] <ailo> Ok, time to hit bed. Work to do tomorrow!
[21:12] <Len-nb> ailo, the first thing to find out is if having it running all time really affects anything else.
[21:12] <Len-nb> GN
[21:13] <ailo> Len-nb: I guess servers like non preempt, but I don't really know why.
[21:13] <ailo> As for resolution, no idea
[21:13] <ailo> Timer res, that is
[21:14] <Len-nb> preempt only happens if SW uses it.
[21:14] <Len-nb> timer rez probably have a cpu work load effect
[21:15] <Len-nb> preempt in a server could be a security problem.
[21:15] <Len-nb> A bad user program could be like a DOS.
[21:16] <ailo> All of these things should be written down and confirmed/proved somehow.
[21:16] <ailo> I didn't mean to do anything about this yet, since I have other tasks to do first
[21:16] <ailo> But, later on..
[21:16] <Len-nb> yup
[21:17] <ailo> Sounds like there's some material for a comparison between the kernels anyway
[21:18] <ailo> GN Len-nb :)