[00:32] <styol> Hey there. I am performing some benchmarks against an Ubuntu 12.04 server that is load balancing requests using HAProxy and I'm having trouble identifying the source of connection resets being returned to the client during these high concurrency benchmarks. Any recommendations on where one might be able to start isolating the source of this issue or anything worth examining further?
[00:33] <jkitchen> styol: tcpdump should help out a lot
[00:35] <styol> jkitchen: gotcha, is there something specific that should be isolated from the output? This honestly goes a bit past my common duties and abilities in system administration ;)
[00:36] <jkitchen> I would argue that it's well within your DUTIES :)
[00:37] <jkitchen> tcpdump is magic.
[00:37] <styol> -duties haha
[00:37] <styol> i suspect sorcery
[00:37] <jkitchen> tcpdump's syntax is a bit weird but you can get some pretty basic things
[00:37] <jkitchen> http://danielmiessler.com/study/tcpdump/
[00:38] <jkitchen> Show me all RESET (RST) packets...
[00:38] <jkitchen> # tcpdump 'tcp[13] & 4!=0'
[00:38] <styol> jkitchen: <3 is this output each RST?
[00:38] <jkitchen> yes
[00:39] <styol> this seems to be more than the benchmarks are reporting which is interesting
[00:39] <styol> guessing just a sample might do? its quite a bit
[00:39] <jkitchen> you can also filter it further
[00:39] <jkitchen> yea
[00:39] <jkitchen> you can take the output of tcpdump and feed it through something like wireshark too to do offline analysis
[00:40] <styol> jkitchen: http://pastie.org/private/zmznqsftxeouqrgavpg0g i will keep reading the url you provided also, much appreciated
[00:43] <styol> i definitely need to work on my tcp/ip chops. Been doing too much high level programming that hides a lot of this awesomeness from me
[00:46] <dissected> hello
[00:50] <styol> jkitchen: ok so one kind of interesting thing about this output is port 8097 is actually a health check being performed by haproxy as opposed to the servers being load balanced
[00:50] <styol> and it actually seems to output a bit more than 5 servers x 3 second intervals
[00:50] <styol> the http-alt's are the servers being load balanced
[00:52] <styol> i suppose the 3 second interval specification isn't applicable to this haproxy configuration option
[01:06] <axisys> how to remove all the desktop packages from the server ?
[01:06] <axisys> two servers 12.04 LTS 64bit .. one has 480 pkgs and the other one (+desktop) has ~1600 pkgs
[01:07] <axisys> I see lots of graphics there too
[01:07] <axisys> I wish there were a aptitude remove ubuntu-desktop
[01:08] <sarnold> axisys: apt-get purge some of the 'base' graphics packages, like gtk libraries or X libraries -- and copy-and-paste the names of packages that require the candidate package?
[01:08] <sarnold> axisys: if you want them identical, you could use dpkg --get-selections and --set-selections, or whatever they are, but that seems riskier to me.
[01:09] <axisys> sarnold: yep, that might be riskier..
[01:09] <axisys> removing lots of manually
[01:11] <axisys> dpkg --get-selections | awk '/^xserver/ {printf "%s ", $1}' gave me a good list.. I guess I could sudo aptitude purge infront of that output
[01:11] <sarnold> axisys: deborphan can be helpful to find and cleanup remnants..
[01:11] <axisys> new to me
[01:12] <sarnold> it'll be more useful once you've removed a few hundred packages :)
[01:17] <axisys> unity compiz.. wow!
[01:23] <dissected> question for the routing/firewall gurus
[01:26] <dissected> running three interfaces on the same box (dedicated router/firewall), bridged wlan0 to eth0 to LAN, eth3 to cable modem and eth2 to LAN, running hostapd and dnsmasq, all devices receive DNS and DHCP replies correctly but only the wired connections on the LAN will get forwarded
[01:27] <dissected> out eth3 that is to the internet
[01:28] <dissected> when I move the cable modem to another machine on the LAN and use that as the router, the wireless devices will get fowarded just fine, just not when everything is in the same machine
[01:28] <dissected> hopefully that is a coherent explanation
[01:28] <sarnold> dissected: how's /proc/sys/net/ipv4/conf/*/forwarding look?
[01:29] <sarnold> does everything have a '1'?
[01:29] <dissected> sarnold, hold on
[01:29] <dissected> sarnold, I'll check
[01:32] <dissected> sarnold, the machine is starting up I'll ssh in shortly, my goal is to have the wifi card send everything out via the eth0, so it should be coming back in via eth2 and get forwarded along with everything else on the LAN
[01:32] <sarnold> dissected: oooh. you might also need to fiddle with the accept_local file in the same directories..
[01:33] <dissected> sarnold, might I need to somehow isolate wlan0, br0, eth0 better?
[01:33] <sarnold> dissected: hrm, dunno :/
[01:34] <sarnold> I've never run a system quite that complicated before :)
[01:34] <dissected> sarnold, there's not a lot of documentation/postings online for this sorta problem
[01:34] <styol> jkitchen: now i get that you were just pasting the label for that output and not necessarily asking that I "Show [you] all RESET (RST) packets…". That being said, me not entirely sure where to go from here with the resets that are being captured
[01:34] <dissected> sarnold, that's why I'm in here
[01:34] <sarnold> dissected: indeed, no :)
[01:35] <dissected> sarnold, Once I get it to work I might write something up and post it on a wiki somewhere, or something
[01:35] <sarnold> dissected: please do :)
[01:36] <dissected> sarnold, everything else works like it should, it's just for some reason the wireless devices won't get forwarded if the AP and gateway are the same machine
[01:37] <dissected> sarnold, you may have pointed me in the right direction though
[01:37] <sarnold> dissected: oh? find something intersting?
[01:39] <dissected> sarnold, it's probably a simple switch somewhere
[01:39] <sarnold> dissected: that's my hope. finding it might be difficult though. I know I've fought both those switches before, which is why I was quick to offer them :) hehe
[01:40] <dissected> sarnold, yeah
[01:41] <dissected> sarnold, I also want to get another wifi card, setup a proxy to another network, because my neighborhood is blanketed with free wifi from a local isp
[01:41] <dissected> sarnold, so I'll set software updates, long downloads, torrents, etc to pull from that one, so they don't interfere with my connection
[01:42] <axisys> sarnold: got rid of 400.. still 1238 total
[01:42] <sarnold> dissected: cool, sounds like a fun project :)
[01:42] <sarnold> axisys: oof. :) well, a bit every day...
[01:42] <dissected> sarnold, I've had some extra time on my hands lately
[01:43] <axisys> sarnold: how does deborphan work? I should check it out
[01:46] <axisys> hmm .. some package remove says it will remove ubuntu-minimal as well.. oops
[01:47] <axisys> found it debconf-i18n.. odd
[01:48] <sarnold> axisys: deborphan suggests packages that were installed to satisfy a dependency, but are no longer needed
[01:48] <sarnold> it isn't always right :)
[01:49] <sarnold> sometimes you do still want the package; but it's helpful.
[01:49] <sarnold> axisys: the 'orphaner' front-end is nice
[01:49] <sarnold> you select some, hit 'simulate', and then it presents a new list to you for you to add more packages
[02:01] <thurstylark> I'm setting up a vps, and my provider only will support clean installs of ubuntu server up to 11.04. What method do you recommend to get me to 12.04?
[02:02] <sarnold> thurstylark: probably install 10.04 and use do-release-upgrade
[02:02] <sarnold> thurstylark: it might be worth asking them why they are so old.. there might be a good reason why they don't offer newer, and you might be better off choosing a different provider
[02:04] <thurstylark> sarnold: I tried that, but whatever build they have to image on their vps doesn't have upgrade-manager-core installed already, and when i go ahead and install it and do do-release-upgrade, it fails out on one of the package installs and doesn't continue.
[02:04] <thurstylark> sarnold: i just might do that :/
[02:04] <sarnold> thurstylark: you could just try a blunt apt-get dist-upgrade, but it may fail for the same reasons, or fun and exciting different reasons.. :)
[02:05] <sarnold> it seems needlessly awkward to not just install the specific distribution you want in the first place. something seems fishy. :)
[02:06] <thurstylark> once i install (and then run updates ofc) the dist-upgrade option has nothing else to offer me.
[02:06] <thurstylark> Also, I agree.
[02:07] <sarnold> thurstylark: you'd replace 'lucid' with 'precise' in your /etc/apt/sources.list file, then apt-get update, then apt-get -u dist-upgrade
[02:08] <sarnold> (worth a shot if the alternative is throw the whole thing away and move elsewhere, but more work than it could be..)
[02:14] <thurstylark> sarnold: I'll file that away in my brain for future use if I need it. For now, it seems that the support group is willing to install a non-listed OS if I ask them to, so, I'm gonna try that.
[02:16] <sarnold> thurstylark: oh, nice.
[02:35] <hallyn_> zul: so you're able to just virsh -c xen:/// define somexen.xml and then start it?  do you use pygrub?  do you have a sample xml you can pastebin
[02:35] <hallyn_> ?
[02:37] <zul> hallyn_:  actually i just create an hvm domain in virt-mangaer and let it be done with it
[02:37] <hallyn_> zul: hm, i can't connect from a remote host from virt-manager
[02:37] <hallyn_> i can list with virsh,
[02:37] <hallyn_> but virt-manager hangs.  (from saucy to saucy)
[02:37] <zul> hallyn_:  hmm..
[02:37] <zul> weird
[02:37] <zul> ill have a look monday...going to disapear for tonight
[02:38] <hallyn_> well i guess i should back out smb's ppa.  it *could* be cuaing trouble
[02:38] <hallyn_> zul: have a good weekend
[02:53] <axisys> sudo /etc/init.d/foo.pl start; works fine.. but does not start at reboot since /usr/local/bin/placker is not in PATH
[02:53] <axisys> if I add the path in foo.pl it solves.. is there a better way to fix the PATH issue?
[02:54] <axisys> I was hoping system would find stuff in /usr/local/bin by default
[02:55] <axisys> 12.04 LTS server
[02:57] <axisys> where do I add comment like this? I want to see my process started OK
[02:57] <axisys>  * Starting OpenSSH server                                               [ OK ]
[04:07] <kasad> guys can I get some assistamce.  have to install ubuntu 8.04 LTS from a flashdrive
[04:08] <kasad> setup starts, but then it says that installation cd-rom couldn't be mounted
[04:08] <kasad> I found somewhere that there is workaround, that I could mount proper flash drive partition as /cdrom and setup would continue
[04:09] <kasad> but I don't know how to figure out which is correct flashdrive partition
[10:11] <Senor>  I am trying to install systemtap on my ubuntu server ,which is of precise version .as you know systemtap need dbgsym installed ,bu I can not find bdgsym package for precise version anywhere .
[10:16] <Senor> who is farmiliar with ubuntu `precise version ?
[17:00] <MraMra> hi is this good enough for a minimal working desktop environment with lxde on a fresh _basic ubuntu server_  to be run remotely with xrdp as server and   remmina as client? : 'sudo apt-get install --without-recommends lxde-core && sudo mkdir /usr/share/backgrounds && sudo update-alternatives --config x-session-manager'
[17:05] <MraMra> 'sudo aptitude install --without-recommends...' i mean
[19:16] <Orfeous> hi everyone! is it possible to move the physical harddrive from computer 1 (x86) to computer 2 (x64). harddrive is current running latest ubuntu 12.10 x86
[19:20] <Patrickdk> orfeous, only if you have a way to plug in physical harddrive and a way to power it
[23:58] <LargePrime> hey all.  my server is telling me that / is 85% full
[23:58] <LargePrime> but /home has 100 GB free
[23:58] <LargePrime> what can be taking up space in /


[11:18] <xubuntu802> heloo
[12:52] <golfwang> hello
[12:53] <golfwang> can anyone tell me how i can replace ubuntu 14.10 with xubuntu 14.04 without losing my data?
[13:18] <baizon> golfwang: http://askubuntu.com/questions/64241/how-do-i-switch-to-xubuntu
[13:21] <nomic> 'plug in the disk'?
[13:21] <nomic> ah - downgrade?
[13:22]  * nomic would install it next to 14.10
[13:22] <nomic> minimise 14.04 partition
[13:22] <nomic> then the 14.10 partition is visible from 14.04, as a volume
[13:22] <knome> they asked replace, not dualboot
[13:22] <nomic> will be visible, without manually mounting it
[13:22] <golfwang> ok
[13:22] <nomic> well you have to back up your data then
[13:23] <knome> golfwang, if you haven't got /home on a separate partition, then you definitely need backups
[13:23] <nomic> because you can't 'downgrade'
[13:23] <nomic> you can upgrade
[13:23] <nomic> and your data sits where it is , os gets upgraded
[14:44] <longbonglungfish> hey xubuntu brothers. i have a simple question: i recently upgrading to xfce 4.12 on xubuntu 14.04, via the xubuntu dev team xfce 4.12 ppa. i forgot to do sudo apt-get dist-upgrade after adding the ppa and doing sudo apt-get update. instead, after update, i simply opened synaptic and marked then upgraded the relevant packages through there. is this ok? should i revert and repeat the process with dist-upgrade instead? i ask bec
[14:44] <longbonglungfish> ause i now have two versions of libxfce4util, and i'm not sure if this is normal. thanks in advance for help!
[16:02] <SonikkuAmerica> Xubuntu doesn't seem to have a minimum requirement for processors. I'm looking around for a *buntu for a friend with a Intel Pentium II... would that work?
[16:13] <mrkramps> SonikkuAmerica, nope
[16:14] <SonikkuAmerica> Thanks. :)
[16:45] <Eniot> Bonjour les gens :-) Juste une question svp ?
[16:46] <elfy> !fr | Eniot
[16:46] <Eniot> ok thanks bye ^^
[18:38] <beachbuddah> morning all - I am dl xubuntu 14.04.2 as we type to an ubuntu live usb environment
[18:38] <beachbuddah> I want to install xubuntu to an external hdd
[18:38] <beachbuddah> can do?  If so, how?  I mean what tools or magic needs to be performed?
[18:39] <bazhang> point the installer to the hdd
[18:39] <beachbuddah> ok..
[18:39] <beachbuddah> that's it?
[18:39] <bazhang> what fs is on it now
[18:40] <beachbuddah> ext4
[18:40] <bazhang> will this drive be shared with other os
[18:41] <beachbuddah> no I am screwed on my main hdd - ubuntu tahr is there but when I try to boot it i get the nasty ol'  OS Not Found message
[18:42] <bazhang> but the liveusb boots fine
[18:42] <beachbuddah> but I would rather not reinstall on that partition, all my good junk is there (in an encrypted home folder - oops) and I would prefer to rescue it after I have a working full os again
[18:42] <beachbuddah> thought I would try out xubuntu when 15.04 came out, but now is as good a time as any
[18:43] <amari> beachbuddah: It should be already stable enough right now ;),in case you don't want to wait
[18:43] <beachbuddah> the live usb boots fine, but I ahve installed (once on the external hdd and once on another partition on the main hdd) and neither is read - I think whatever is used as an image must be corrupted?
[18:43] <bazhang> release of vivid is quite soon, so if you do all the updates etc it will regular vivd once its fully released
[18:44] <beachbuddah> I'm fairly easy - it won't give me headaches, trying to rescue my eoolishly encrypted data?
[18:44] <beachbuddah> that should be foolishly
[18:44] <bazhang> no way to know that in advance
[18:45] <beachbuddah> lol, of course
[18:45] <bazhang> always a good plan to have backups before trying that
[18:46] <beachbuddah> yes - backups existed but sadly, things went pearshaped quite recently and they are gone baby gone
[18:46] <beachbuddah> now this installer of which you speak
[18:46] <knome> amari, a beta or even an RC is never recommended on a production machine.
[18:47] <beachbuddah> before I point it anywhere, where do I acquire this magickal item?
[18:47] <amari> knome: But there is only one week and 2 days remaining until final. And xfce is usually very stable...
[18:47] <knome> amari, there is no "but"s
[18:48] <beachbuddah> stable buts, yes, but the installer...?
[18:50] <amari> knome: So you suggest he installs 14.10 now and updates to 15.04 next week? Do you think this is more stable than using the beta/RC? I don't think so...
[18:50] <amari> *upgrades
[18:51] <knome> amari, whether he is willing to take the risk or not with 15.04 is his own business, but if it's a production environment or any environment that requires stability, he shouldn't.
[18:52] <Unit193> It's not released yet, so could go boom tomorrow.
[18:52] <beachbuddah> amari - under my current circumstances - with the home folder encrypted and living either on a disk or in an OS that is corrupted, I think it is preferable to use a known stable release - I am actually dl 14.04
[18:52] <amari> 14.04 is a great option, since it is LTS ;)
[18:53] <beachbuddah> otherwise, had I just been curious about xubuntu, I would have considered the rc that is out now
[18:53] <beachbuddah> just what I was thinking
[18:54] <beachbuddah> and (since I am a pissy fool) I am a little cranky with ubuntu since it didn't install x2 for me in this crisis of mine - I'll show 'em, xubuntu here I come...
[18:55] <beachbuddah> now, earlier bazhang mentioned pointing the installer -
[18:55] <beachbuddah> just what is the installer and where do I get mine?
[18:56] <knome> if you are downloading a 14.04 ISO, you are getting the installer
[18:56] <beachbuddah> aww - aren't they generous...so I double click or extract here or...
[18:56] <beachbuddah> I may seem stupid, but thats only cause I am
[18:57] <beachbuddah> I have always installed off a live CD or usb before, so this installer is outside my realm of experience
[18:57] <knome> beachbuddah, just do the same as ever
[18:57] <Unit193> That is it, ubiquity is the installer used in the live session.
[19:00] <beachbuddah> well - my issue is that I now have linited resources, right?  the usb stick ( the one and only) is in the slot runing the live session - it (surpisingly)eats the cd/dvd controller resource so I cannot create a rescue cd else I would have so I will have the iso once the dl is complete - and that was the original Q - can I install to an external drive from a (I should have said pre-existing) liuveusb session
[19:01] <beachbuddah> as in right now - dl is complete, iso resting comfortably in the downloads folder after that exhausting ordeal, wondering what is in store for it next...
[19:06] <bazhang> thats quite different from your original question
[19:07] <beachbuddah> is it?  Then I apologize - I am flummoxed after two days of messing around and discovering how much I do not know
[19:09] <beachbuddah> Though, here I sit - in a live usb session, having downloaded xubuntu, wondering how to install said os to an external hdd
[19:32] <beachbuddah> Well, bazhang, knome, amari, unit193 all of you for your time and assistance.  Problem not solved, but you tried - in #ubuntu, I didn't even get a response to the question
[19:32] <beachbuddah> have a great day all


[10:09] <Xeonvl> Hi, yesterday I asked a question regarding using snapcraft to build a snap for a different architecture
[10:10] <Xeonvl> and more specifically, how to drag in the dependencies in the right architecture
[15:59] <ogra_> Xeonvl, the only two ways currently are either qemu-user-static to use an armhf chroot on your PC or a native build on the target arch
[16:01] <Xeonvl> aha
[16:02] <Xeonvl> that is a bit sad
[16:02] <Xeonvl> got myself an lxd container on my rpi2 now


[01:46] <oix29> hi ! someone can tell me how can I propose a new feature for the next ubuntu release ?
[01:50] <jmarsden> oix29: Create a Blueprint for it, work to refine it and gain consensus around it, attend UDS and promote it... do the work to make it happen :)
[01:56] <oix29> ok good :) thnx jmarsden
[01:57] <jmarsden> oix29: You're welcome.
[07:01] <dholbach> good morning
[07:57] <benonsoftware> Hi all
[10:27] <al-maisan> hello there, a package of mine fails to install due to a failure in the postinst script -- how can I see what these errors are (so I can fix them)?
[10:30] <jtaylor> you can put a set -x into the script to see what it executes
[10:30] <al-maisan> on the shebang line?
[10:31] <jtaylor> after it
[10:31] <al-maisan> like "#!/bin/sh -x" ?
[10:31] <al-maisan> ah, "set -x"
[10:31] <al-maisan> ok
[10:31] <al-maisan> sorry
[10:32] <al-maisan> jtaylor: thanks for the advice .. will try that.
[10:51] <Rhonda> You can even run it manually.
[10:51] <Rhonda> Like, sh -x /var/lib/dpkg/info/$package.postinst
[10:51] <Rhonda> … and configure as argument.
[10:51]  * al-maisan tries that
[10:53] <al-maisan> hmm .. I see where it's failing now, thanks jtaylor and Rhonda !
[10:53] <Rhonda> de nada :)
[11:23]  * dholbach hugs tumbleweed
[11:24] <tumbleweed> heh, np
[11:44] <jtaylor> dholbach: isn't beta freeze over? (concerning bug 842211)
[11:45] <jtaylor> the sync just fixes a ftbs no new features
[11:46] <Laney> yes indeed it is over
[12:43] <blueyed> What makes Pillow/PIL's setup.py pickup /lib/i386-linux-gnu/libz.so.1 when using Ubuntu's python, but miss it when using a self-compiled python?
[12:43] <blueyed> I have seen that Python's setup.py uses dpkg-architecture, but could not find something similar in distutils.
[14:08] <al-maisan> hmm .. what user is used to run a debian/postinst script? I thought it was root..?
[14:09] <ogra_> it is
[14:09] <al-maisan> I have statements starting with "sudo -u postgres psql .." and when I install the package I am getting prompted with "[sudo] password for postgres:"
[14:10] <ogra_> you want su
[14:10] <ogra_> not sudo
[14:10] <al-maisan> aaaaah
[14:10] <al-maisan> ok
[14:10] <al-maisan> ogra_: thank you very much indeed!
[14:10] <ogra_> :)
[14:40] <dholbach> jtaylor, Laney: you're right
[14:42] <Laney> :-)
[16:24] <tumbleweed> micahg: whoah, you only just beat me in the DMB election, well done :)
[16:24]  * tumbleweed was not expecting to do well
[16:24] <nigelb> Oh, the results are out?
[16:25] <Laney> yet to be confirmed
[16:26] <tumbleweed> right, sorry Laney :)
[16:26] <Laney> :P
[18:15] <jtaylor> I'm wondering if bug 842985 needs an ffe, its technically a new feature, but a feature which worked in natty (= regression)
[18:16] <jtaylor> brb
[18:34] <c_korn> how can I tell dh_install (via the .install file) to install a directory with a space in it?
[18:35] <c_korn> lib/mmc\ Libs usr/lib/mmediac <-- this does not work
[18:38] <cjwatson> c_korn: You can't.  http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=198507
[18:39] <cjwatson> Well, there is a workaround in there.  But personally I would just do such horrible things by hand in debian/rules.
[18:40] <c_korn> hm, ok. thanks.
[18:44] <c_korn> hm, dh_makeshlibs and dh_shlibdeps also fails :/
[18:44] <c_korn> think I need to rename the directory at the end
[19:07] <Cypher2_> hello
[19:09] <cypher2__> hello
[19:10] <cypher2__> my name is nathanel titane (Cypher2) and am currently experiencing difficulty pushing a fix to lp
[19:11] <cypher2__> anyone?
[19:12] <cypher2__> hello?
[19:13] <cypher2__> help?
[19:14] <cjwatson> I think you should give more detail including a pastebinned transcript of what you're trying to do and what the output is, and then somebody will probably look at it
[19:14] <cjwatson> (that works better than waiting for somebody to volunteer first)
[19:23] <jtaylor> does using dh-autoreconf to fix a build failure need a FFe?
[20:02] <pabelanger> Afternoon, I was looking for help triaging a backport request: https://bugs.launchpad.net/lucid-backports/+bug/638213
[20:02] <pabelanger> I'm told this is the place
[20:09] <micahg> pabelanger: looks, good, but I don't have time to comment ATM, please reset to confirmed per https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports#How_to_Help
[20:10] <Laney> pabelanger: we need confirmation that the no-change backport builds, installs and runs
[20:10] <Laney> aha, says that
[20:11] <Laney> pabelanger: thanks, approved
[20:12] <jtaylor> does using dh-autoreconf to fix a build failure need a FFe?
[20:12] <pabelanger> micahg: Laney: Great, thanks for looking
[20:12] <jtaylor> allows patching configure.in instead of configure which is ackward
[20:13] <Laney> jtaylor: wouldn't think so, providing the build system is well behaved
[20:13] <Laney> make sure the patch is forwarded etc
[20:14] <jtaylor> already "applied upstream" (= upstream removed autotools and use scons)
[20:14] <Laney> fun
[20:15] <jtaylor> but we can't use that for oneiric, new features, still waiting in mentors for debian upload, so I fixed the old build
[20:15] <jtaylor> slurm is the package
[20:40] <tumbleweed> jtaylor: re pacpl, I'd say go ahead, it sounds regressiony
[20:40] <tumbleweed> and no, I wouldn't say dh_autoreconf is particularyl dangerous
[20:40]  * tumbleweed was reviewing all dh_python2 transitions before we asked for FFes for them, and finding lots of issues (should have posted those to ubuntu-devel...)
[20:42] <ajmitch> tumbleweed: regressions like FTBFS because it tried to install into /usr/local/? :)
[20:44] <tumbleweed> ajmitch: the FTBFS ones were obvious
[20:44] <tumbleweed> more common was missing byte-compilation, or byte-compiling the wrong things
[20:44] <ajmitch> I still feel like I need someone to check over what I've done to convert them, even on the simple ones
[20:45] <ajmitch> there's still much magic that goes on behind the scenes
[20:50] <spartan-11510> Hi, i'm a begginer and i need some help
[20:50] <spartan-11510> I've found a bug and i try to patch the package, but an include is make and the file doesn't exist
[20:51] <spartan-11510> The gettext.h doesn't exist
[20:51] <spartan-11510> /* Internationalization.  */
[20:52] <spartan-11510> #include "gettext.h"
[20:52] <spartan-11510> #define _(str) gettext (str)
[20:52] <spartan-11510> #define N_(str) gettext_noop (str)
[20:56] <spartan-11510> it's the hello-2.6 package
[21:01] <jtaylor> spartan-11510: the file is in gnulib/lib in that package, you ahve to pass that to the compiler with the -I flag
[21:02] <jtaylor> spartan-11510: what exactly are you trying to do? the makefile should do that for you in that package
[21:03] <spartan-11510> When you use "hello -h" he said we can use -m option but if you try to use ii, it doesn't work
[21:05] <jtaylor> spartan-11510: it doesn't offer the -m option for me
[21:06] <spartan-11510> maybe it's translation, i'm french
[21:06] <spartan-11510> it proposed me for read e-mail...
[21:11] <jtaylor> spartan-11510: I don't understand, hello is just an example application, it only prints out hello world not more
[21:12] <spartan-11510> I know, but if you look in the translation file hello-2.6/po/fr.po you can see that
[21:12] <spartan-11510> #~ msgid ""
[21:12] <spartan-11510> #~ "GNU hello, THE greeting printing program.\n"
[21:12] <spartan-11510> #~ "\n"
[21:12] <spartan-11510> #~ "Usage: %s [OPTION]\n"
[21:13] <spartan-11510> #~ "\n"
[21:13] <spartan-11510> #~ "  -h, --help          display this help and exit\n"
[21:13] <spartan-11510> #~ "  -v, --version       display version information and exit\n"
[21:13] <spartan-11510> #~ "  -t, --traditional   use traditional greeting format\n"
[21:13] <spartan-11510> #~ "  -m, --mail          print your mail\n"
[21:13] <spartan-11510> #~ "\n"
[21:13] <spartan-11510> #~ "Report bugs to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[21:13] <spartan-11510> #~ msgstr ""
[21:13] <spartan-11510> #~ "Le logiciel Hello de GNU, LE programme de Bienvenue.\n"
[21:13] <spartan-11510> #~ "\n"
[21:13] <spartan-11510> #~ "Usage: %s [OPTION]\n"
[21:13] <spartan-11510> #~ "  -h, --help          afficher l'aide-m�moire\n"
[21:13] <spartan-11510> #~ "  -v, --version       afficher le nom et la version du logiciel\n"
[21:13] <spartan-11510> #~ "  -t, --traditional   utiliser le format traditionnel de salutations\n"
[21:13] <ari-tczew> !pastebin | spartan-11510
[21:13] <spartan-11510> #~ "  -m, --mail          afficher le courrier\n"
[21:13] <spartan-11510> #~ "\n"
[21:13] <spartan-11510> #~ "Rapporter toutes anomalies �<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[21:14] <sladen> spartan-11510: -> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/
[21:14] <jtaylor> interesting, that is indeed a bug and its in a lot more translations too
[21:15] <spartan-11510> http://paste.ubuntu.com/683865/
[21:15] <spartan-11510> I'm a begginer and i try to progress in packaging and help the community
[21:16] <spartan-11510> And i'm sorry for multi-line text
[21:17] <spartan-11510> What i can do just modify the translation?
[21:19] <jtaylor> spartan-11510: first you should check if it has been fixed or reported upstream, if not do so
[21:20] <spartan-11510> on launchpad? because i think it's a debian package not an ubuntu
[21:20] <jtaylor> upstream in this case is gnu
[21:21] <jtaylor> upstream= the people who wrote the software
[21:21] <jtaylor> spartan-11510: to create a patch simply fix the po files and do debuild -us -uc -S, this will create a patch in debian/patches/debian-changes-2.7-1
[21:22] <jtaylor> you can submit this patch to upstream or open a bug in debian and attach it there
[21:22] <spartan-11510> ok thank's
[21:23] <jtaylor> but note, this is not a very important application, its possible nobody will care
[21:27] <spartan-11510> debuild -us -uc -S doesn't work
[21:28] <jtaylor> please pastebin the output: debuild -us -uc -S | pastebinit
[21:32] <spartan-11510> jtaylor: result http://paste.ubuntu.com/683876/
[21:33] <jtaylor> spartan-11510: you still have a backup/swap file in the build tree from your editor, remove them before building
[21:34] <spartan-11510> all *~ file
[21:34] <jtaylor> what debuild will do is take your extracted tree and compare it to the original unmodified source tarball and make a patch from it, it cannot handle binary files that way
[21:34] <jtaylor> (unless you explicitly tell it too, but thats rarely needed)
[21:38] <spartan-11510> i haven't *~ file
[21:40] <jtaylor> hello-2.6/src/.system.h.kate-swp
[21:42] <jtaylor> spartan-11510: I just quckly check, it was already reported but ignored https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-hello/2010-12/msg00003.html
[21:42] <jtaylor> you could reply to that message telling them that the problem are the translations
[21:43] <spartan-11510> jtaylor: ok, and i could send the patch
[21:43] <jtaylor> yes
[21:48] <spartan-11510> jtaylor: thank you for your help now i know how to debug a simple package
[21:49] <jtaylor> spartan-11510: when this worked you can now test the patch by building the package completely
[21:49] <jtaylor> spartan-11510: debuild -us -uc  (without -S), this will create a .deb in the parent folder which you can install
[21:50] <jtaylor> for details on the flags see man dpkg-buildpackage
[21:57] <spartan-11510> jtaylor: thank you very much for everithing but i build it and i make dpkg --install hello_2.6-1_amd64.deb
[21:57] <spartan-11510> and i've always  the same package
[21:59] <spartan-11510> always same error
[22:00] <spartan-11510> i've make
[22:00] <spartan-11510> dpkg-buildpackage
[22:00] <spartan-11510> dpkg --install hello_2.6-1_amd64.deb
[22:03] <jtaylor> you mean the --mail is still there?
[22:05] <spartan-11510> yes
[22:08] <jtaylor> unfortunatly I'm unfamiliar with translations, maybe you have to edit a different file or regenrate something
[22:12] <spartan-11510> i will search on google i try to fix this, and enjoy you're night school tomorrow...
[22:12] <spartan-11510> Bye see you next time
[22:12] <jtaylor> bye
[22:12] <spartan-11510> And thank you


[00:10] <hads> Hmm. Trying to install 12.04 server on a new board but it keeps rebooting when formatting the drive.
[00:15] <ajmitch> that doesn't sound promising
[00:16] <hads> Might try a different drive to start with and see what happens.
[00:16] <hads> Then I guess I'll try a different version.
[01:56] <hads> Tried a different drive (HDD vs SSD) and it rebooted more often. It was the PSU. I replaced it with an older less powerful one and it works :)
[01:58] <ajmitch> at least it was something easily replaced
[01:58] <olly> well, they do say power corrupts
[01:58] <hads> heh
[01:58] <hads> New server for home soon, yay.
[01:58] <hads> Finally a box that fits in my rack rather than sitting on the bench next to it.
[04:37] <ibeardslee> Wellington peoples, there is a move to get WellyLUG off and running again .. #wellylug (on freenode, not the previous host)
[05:08] <elky> ##wellylug actually
[19:20] <olly> morning
[19:24] <hads> morning
[19:30] <ajmitch> morning
[19:55] <hads> Snap are still working trying to sort out my upload speed; http://www.speedtest.net/result/2574126647.png
[19:56] <ajmitch> yeah that's a bit low
[19:57] <hads> I can get 45mbit with a UDP iperf but TCP is quite limited. Possibly something to do with the shapers on Chorus equipment.
[19:58]  * ajmitch is still waiting for the street to get fibre
[19:58] <ajmitch> so far they've cut into the ashphalt
[19:59] <hads> I think took about 4-6 weeks from digging up to being finished. Then another 6-8 weeks for them to hook up the cabinet etc.
[20:00] <ibeardslee> morning
[20:03] <ajmitch> at which point I might as well not bother for the year unless I know I'll be there for at least another 12 months
[20:04] <ajmitch> it was originally scheduled for sept 2012, then pushed back to being live by 1st march according to the letter in my mailbox :)
[20:06] <ibeardslee> there are running some UFB up towards me .. but that is pretty arse really, there is TelstraClear cable available in my area .. they should be focusing on areas that have no reasonable alternative to shitty adsl
[20:07] <ibeardslee> .. although I'm sure that some would argue that T/C cable is not a reasonable alternative
[20:11] <G> ibeardslee: considering at the moment the UFB maps make it look like our cities have chickenpox I'm going to assume there is a method behind their madness :)
[20:15] <ajmitch> hads: so I'm guessing the 12-month obligation to snap is from when the connection is fully in place
[20:36] <hads> I'm not actually sure, I assumed from when they bill you.
[20:40] <ajmitch> given that I'm in an apartment building, it'll probably take 3 months to get connected from when the street is finished
[20:41] <hads> Probably
[20:41] <ajmitch> so much back & forth between different parties
[20:42] <hads> One of the reasons my issue is taking a while to figure out is because Chorus don't do Chirstchurch so Snap can't get an equivilent last mile network to test with.
[20:43] <ajmitch> you'd think they'd have a few christchurch customers
[20:43] <hads> They do but the UFB network in Christchurch isn't built out by Chorus.
[20:43] <hads> So it's different equipment in the cabinets etc.
[21:10] <thumper> morning
[21:39] <G> hads: you'd think they'd have a test connection in say Auckland where they do have a Chorus last mile :)
[23:24] <hads> G: You would think but I don't believe they have. Well they like to courier me a box with iperf installed to do tests so it doesn't seem like it.


[15:27] <tomoiaga> I was wondering about something. I used cloud init to setup a user and a password. However at leas in CentOS 6.5 the password has !! in front of it. It seems it was inserted without removing the previousely present exclamation marks. Is this a normal behaviour ?
[22:47] <harmw_> smoser: http://buildservice.weites.com/cirros/
[22:47] <harmw> it'll get updated nightly, if there are changes in trunk
[22:50] <harmw> currently only x86_64 is beeing built, though crossing over to i386/arm should be possible aswell
[22:50] <harmw> just a custom script btw, nothing fancy yet really


[00:18] <Curt`> Hello. I am fairly new to Ubuntu. I plan on formatting my computer and setting it up to duel-boot with Ubunti 12.04 & Windows 7. With my current duel-boot setup, I cannot access the ubuntu-related partitions with Windows (however I can access Windows related partitions with Ubuntu). Is it possible / is a bad idea to have my /home folder on a NTSF format partition? Is there other options?
[00:54] <andygraybeal_> hey, we dont' know each other and you got a good idea.  but let me say this, i find it easier to install ubuntu plainly and then use vbox.  libvirt/kvm is a choice too but it's  harder.  this way you can access files easier
[00:55] <andygraybeal_> i don't want to detract from what your doing, but this is the way i prefer to do it.
[00:55] <andygraybeal_> with vbox, you can run windows in a virtual machine.
[00:55] <andygraybeal_> virtualbox makes it easy to access files in ubuntu from windows.
[00:56] <andygraybeal_> if you don't have enough horsepower in your machine, i can see this as a reason not to do what i'm talking about.  but dual booting is kind of a pain.
[00:57] <andygraybeal_> Curt`, that make sense?
[00:57] <andygraybeal_> guess i responded a bit late
[01:17] <Curt`> I'm sorry. I went afk for a bit there.
[01:17] <Curt`> I also asked in the #ubuntu channel and got some responses.
[01:17] <Unit193> There is a crappy driver for Windows, but I wouldn't use it.
[01:18] <Curt`> Hehe I found the 'drivers' (requires a program semi-in the background; seen in the tray); may require user input every startup (need to play with it more :P).
[01:19] <Curt`> Called 'Ext2Fsd'
[01:20] <Curt`> andygraybeal I understand what you are saying. Something about doing stuff in a virtual machine just isn't the same (hehe). Also, not everything is perfect in a virtual machine and I wanted to avoid unforseen complications.
[01:21] <andygraybeal_> Curt`, that's cool man.  i probably never do the things your doing, i end up using it for activex or something i can't get done with linux.  i guess games would be something i didn't think about.. i'm sure there i smore.
[01:22] <andygraybeal_> oh yea, i would probably stream the netflix with it too if i had tht account
[01:23] <Curt`> Gaming I can see may act weird; netflix I'm not sure; may work either case.
[01:23] <andygraybeal_> did you end up running samba in ubuntu to solve your issue?
[01:23] <andygraybeal_> er wait i'm an idiot
[01:24] <andygraybeal_> i'm stil thinking virtual machine
[01:24] <canthus13> netflix works fine inside virtualbox.
[01:24] <Curt`> Cool.
[01:25] <paultag> or if you implement DRM decoders in moonlight
[01:26] <andygraybeal_> paultag, is it easy?
[01:26] <paultag> andygraybeal_: nope :)
[01:26] <andygraybeal_> did you do it?
[01:28] <paultag> nope :)
[01:31] <Curt`> I'm surprised there isn't an 'elegant' solution out there that I've seen so far.
[01:35] <oda> Curt`, Alot of things run funky cause windows is still developers choice
[01:40] <andygraybeal_> ah ext2fsd .. nice to learn about that
[01:40] <andygraybeal_> i just understood what you guys were talking about
[01:41] <Curt`> http://www.troublefixers.com/4-ways-to-open-linux-or-ubuntu-ext-drive-partitions-in-windows/ - The first option seems the most elegant, however it does not work on Widnows 7 appearntly...
[01:44] <andygraybeal_> grrr
[01:46] <Curt`> I need to decide how much space to allocate for Windows & Ubuntu :/ a problem that always puts off the task of reformatting.
[01:49] <Curt`> 30 GB for Windows 7, 20 GB for Ubuntu /, and remainder (about 230 GB) for Ubuntu /home...
[01:50] <andygraybeal_> what do you run in windows if you dont' mind me prying?
[01:51] <Curt`> I'm trying to transition over to Ubuntu more heavily, but I know there will be some things which will only be available for Windows; specifically, netflix is the only thing I can think of right this moment tbh but I'm sure there is more :P (oh, plus 6 GB for Ubuntu, uhh, I forget what it is called...)
[01:54] <andygraybeal_> cool
[01:54] <Curt`> ah swap.
[01:55] <Curt`> I want to be certain this is the partition size I want before I actually format :P
[01:58] <Curt`> Oh; I read I should install Windows first.. Hm okay..
[02:01] <andygraybeal_> see what i mean, i would go nuts already :)
[02:03] <andygraybeal_> i got kvm/libvirt running at work on a quad core xeon box, it ain't much but it's something pretty decent, it's got 8GB in it.. i run a few linux machines and one windows box cause a website we order from twice a week runs activex
[02:29] <Curt`> Hehe.
[02:37] <Curt`> Hehe https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PartitioningSchemes has an example for a 2 TB hd.
[02:50] <Curt`> What a great website: http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/partitioning
[11:38] <andygraybeal> aye aye aye
[13:46] <paultag> heyya all
[14:02] <andygraybeal> hi paul
[14:12] <paultag> what's new andygraybeal
[14:13] <andygraybeal> nada, getting some metrics into my monitor server for my walk-in freezer + fridge and server cabinet
[14:14] <andygraybeal> here at work
[14:15] <andygraybeal> specifically fightging with command defs in nagios.. something i've done before.. but since have forgotten :)
[14:27] <thafreak> so you guise are nagios ninjas eh...
[14:27] <thafreak> can i get some opinions?
[14:28] <thafreak> I've been meaning to set up monitoring at work for...well since i've been here
[14:28] <thafreak> just never get enough time
[14:28] <thafreak> i recently was working with shinken at home, and it uses nagios config files
[14:29] <thafreak> so i remembered how much I didn't realy hate nagios configs....
[14:29] <thafreak> But I also realize that lots of people do/would hate them
[14:29] <thafreak> so now to the questions part :)
[14:30] <andygraybeal> :)
[14:30] <thafreak> I'm not planning on working here for that much longer...
[14:30] <andygraybeal> my company doesn't recognize the time i spend on monitoring as 'productive' and i hate them for it.
[14:30] <thafreak> Do I just say screw it, and use something that uses nagios config files, cause I know enough to do that
[14:31] <thafreak> or do i try to find a mickey mouse solution that has shiny buttons to hopefully make the next person's life easier
[14:31] <thafreak> i can't garauntee that the next person won't be an idiot
[14:31] <thafreak> and i hate leaving some place only to find out how much the next person bad mouthed all I had setup
[14:32] <andygraybeal> you know, nagios is awesome and great and all that.. and i use it dearly.
[14:32] <andygraybeal> but i have been considering opennms.
[14:32] <thafreak> does it have shiny buttons for configuring it? can a non-sysadmin, or a winblows admin figure it out?
[14:33] <andygraybeal> oh.. and don't use nagios, use 'icinga'
[14:33] <andygraybeal> oh.. no no.. i think there is a steeper curve with opennms
[14:33] <thafreak> yeah, well i would either setup icinga or shinken ;)
[14:33] <andygraybeal> ah, i've never heard of shinken
[14:33] <andygraybeal> is it like icinga?
[14:33] <thafreak> icinga is a nagios fork, shinken is written from scratch (a new implementation)
[14:34] <thafreak> both use nagios' config files and plugins
[14:34] <andygraybeal> i went to the colug meeting about that 'zen' monitoring software, i forget what it's called now..and that looks hella slick.. but more for huge enterprises.
[14:34] <andygraybeal> thafreak, i need to check out shinken then!
[14:34] <thafreak> it's written in python
[14:34] <thafreak> but, just to warn you, if you run all the parts on one box, it does use a bit of ram
[14:35] <thafreak> but i think that's the problem with most of the monitoring systems...they're all pretty resource hungry
[14:35] <andygraybeal> the 'zen' one was all web interface based and searched out all the devices for you!  cataloged everything.  it was a mamoth.  i (for maybe reasons of insanity) prefer the down-home feel of 'nagios'
[14:35] <thafreak> zenos or zennos or something?
[14:35] <andygraybeal> thafreak, exactly
[14:35] <thafreak> i think i tried that one
[14:36] <thafreak> you know what's funny, the more "user friendly" something seems to strive for, the harder time I tend to have using it :(
[14:36] <andygraybeal> nagios, and others before it (big brother, rrdtool+mrtg) is what i'm used to.. so i feel comfortable :)
[14:36] <andygraybeal> thafreak, exactly my problem too.
[14:36] <thafreak> like, cherokee web server...couldn't for the life of me get it to do what i already knew how to make nginx do...
[14:37] <andygraybeal> nginx looks bad ass and this reverse proxy thing sounds amazing, something i need to delve into.
[14:37] <thafreak> it IS badass
[14:37] <paultag> nginx is great
[14:37] <thafreak> kinda wish some one built a nagios replacement that was as kind on resources as nginx is
[14:38] <andygraybeal> one of these days man, i got no time, and my biz is crunching me out of what i'm doing.
[14:38] <paultag> ok, unfair
[14:38] <paultag> nginx needs to be run with other webservers
[14:38] <paultag> nginx is light, but it's also not able to do a lot of things
[14:38] <paultag> but continue
[14:39] <andygraybeal> ya, go on thafreak sorry for changing the subject
[14:40] <andygraybeal> i have been impressed with opennms from reading about it.
[14:40] <andygraybeal> and i have been thinknig about skipping icinga and going to opennms.
[14:40] <andygraybeal> at first i was going to move from nagios to icinga.
[14:42] <andygraybeal> you know, i'm not a wiz at this.. i went through mrtg+rrdtool, cricket, big brother, then nagios... and i still love mrtg+rrdtool!!!
[14:42] <andygraybeal> the most
[14:42] <andygraybeal> that was the first one i got my hands on
[14:42] <andygraybeal> it was very simple
[14:42] <andygraybeal> there might have been a few more in that lineup.
[14:45] <andygraybeal> oh and i still like vim but respect emacs.
[14:45] <andygraybeal> and.. i know tmux kicks screen's ass. .but i'm getting old.. so i'm used to screen.
[14:46] <andygraybeal> and i'm only 32 :)
[14:47] <paultag> I'm just as kranky as you with my screen love
[14:51] <andygraybeal> :)
[14:53] <dzho> logfile log/screen-log-%H-%t-%n-%Y%m%d-%c:%s
[14:53] <andygraybeal> thafreak, 'shinken' looks good
[14:54] <dzho> (that's a screen command to set the logfile name to match the details of the screen window, date, etc)
[14:54] <andygraybeal> nice
[14:57] <paultag> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrfHLOo8kjE&feature=related
[14:57] <paultag> if anyone wants to jam
[15:07] <thafreak> sorry boss came in to see where i am with the irc server
[15:07] <thafreak> it's better when she's out at conferences
[15:07] <thafreak> but on the other hand, i probably don't get anything accomplished at times :)
[15:08] <thafreak> and taggy, what can't nginx do? :)
[15:08] <thafreak> run applications inside itself...a webserver shouldn't need to do that ;)
[15:08] <andygraybeal> thafreak, your boss wants you to run an irc server?  awesome.
[15:08] <andygraybeal> is she hot?
[15:08] <thafreak> she's older than my mom...no
[15:09] <andygraybeal> does she know what irc is?
[15:09] <andygraybeal> or did you make somethign up again?
[15:09] <thafreak> barely
[15:09] <thafreak> no, one of our collaborators at carnegie mellon requested it
[15:09] <andygraybeal> hahahahah awesome
[15:10] <thafreak> at first, i was pushing to have us just use freenode, and create a cname in our domain to point at it
[15:10] <andygraybeal> that sounds like a great way to run an irc server.. *at work* :)
[15:10] <thafreak> then i decided, well I'll have a bit more control over it...so...
[15:12] <andygraybeal> why does someone at cmu want to use irc?
[15:12] <andygraybeal> i mena, i use irc constantly, so i understand.
[15:12] <andygraybeal> but i'm curious!
[15:12] <thafreak> group collab
[15:12] <andygraybeal> i try to get people to use irc around here and everyone scoffs
[15:12] <thafreak> students will be doing research...and I think the one prof uses irc
[15:13] <andygraybeal> they scoff at forums too.. i'm like.. wtf. y our all idiots
[15:13] <thafreak> i thought you worked at a resturaunt?
[15:13] <andygraybeal> thafreak, i do :)
[15:13] <thafreak> you mean in their off time?
[15:13] <andygraybeal> well i'm trying to ramp these people up to learn html and other things.
[15:13] <andygraybeal> it's hard going.
[15:14] <andygraybeal> like they want a training program, and a survey
[15:14] <andygraybeal> as two examples.
[15:14] <thafreak> just to improve them selves, or for the betterment of the resturaunt?
[15:14] <andygraybeal> so i'm like..well moodle and limesurvey.. lets learn them!
[15:14] <andygraybeal> bettermetn of the restaurant.
[15:14] <thafreak> so you're refering to management i guess?
[15:15] <andygraybeal> so i set up servers with moodle and limesurvey and set these people down with some examples i came up with and gave them a bunch of resources, like books and urls.. and taught them irc to ask questions and they don't want to use any of it. they just complain about how hard it is.
[15:15] <andygraybeal> well.. we co-own the restaurant.
[15:15] <andygraybeal> so yes, management, but not in the same sense as what you meant.
[15:15] <andygraybeal> it's a cooperative.
[15:15] <andygraybeal> all of us have a share.
[15:16] <andygraybeal> it's like socialism.
[15:16] <andygraybeal> well, it is socialism
[15:17] <andygraybeal> maybe i'm going about it wrong, and feel free to critique
[15:17] <andygraybeal> but it's like.. i have to come up with the training material in moodle and the surveys in limesurvey and i don't have tha tmuch time.. like right now i'm fighting nagios :)
[15:17] <andygraybeal> and i thought i was winning, but i'm losing at this point.  and i'm about ready for a break.
[15:18] <andygraybeal> they want a new pos, so i set up a new pos for them to play with but no one even bothered messing with it.
[15:18] <andygraybeal> same with human resource stuff.. i setup orangehrm
[15:18] <andygraybeal> i even got a lot of this stuff tied to our directory!
[15:18] <andygraybeal> ldap
[15:19] <andygraybeal> i'm like.. doods this is the shit, you just gotta learn it.
[15:19] <andygraybeal> so eventually, i'll learn it myself and then do it all myself.. but i could use some help along the way.
[15:20] <andygraybeal> i think they just expect that the thing will do what they want without any effort on their part.
[15:20] <andygraybeal> it's kind of crappy.
[15:24] <andygraybeal> it takes a bit of time to get people use to the idea of working i guess.
[15:24] <andygraybeal> working on the computer i mean, they work hard in the restaurant.
[15:25] <thafreak> oh canthus13, re: chromium...when you said you regularly have 6-7 tabs open http://i.imgur.com/BweUZ.png
[15:26] <thafreak> thats how many I typically have open...for that browser (I typically have atleast firefox and sometimes midori also running)
[15:26] <dzho> > is she hot?
[15:26] <dzho> http://whatever.scalzi.com/2012/05/15/straight-white-male-the-lowest-difficulty-setting-there-is/
[15:26] <thafreak> dzho: i just saw that posted by some one on plus....was going to read it
[15:29] <thafreak> andygraybeal: i see...yes, that's how 99% of people seem to feel about technology
[15:29] <thafreak> it should work all by iteself and read their minds
[15:34] <dzho> was it queru who posted a rather lengthy "this is what happens when you  do $X with a computer"
[15:34] <dzho> basically digging down into each of the various layers of how things work, and how complicated they are
[16:22] <thafreak> what'd I miss...my connection got screwed up some how
[16:22] <thafreak> you guys see this: http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Ubuntu-releases-open-hardware-VGA-Switch-1570668.html
[16:23] <thafreak> i wish more companies made open hardware
[16:23] <thafreak> or designed open hardware I should say
[16:31] <andygraybeal> thafreak, nothing, just a quit and rejion
[16:33] <andygraybeal> thafreak, wow, i hope ubuntu keeps making more hardware!!
[20:32] <andygraybeal> dzho, uhoh, are you calling me out :)
[20:33] <andygraybeal> i got some vodka and green waiting for me at home
[20:34] <paultag> ٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶
[20:36] <andygraybeal> eeh man.
[20:36] <andygraybeal> yea, going home though, i won't make it home till 7pm :)
[20:36] <andygraybeal> my nerves might be shot by then, we'll see.
[20:41] <dzho> andygraybeal: "if you see something, say something" ;-)
[20:42] <andygraybeal> i feel like i'm being psychoanalyzed and thrown into a movie like Brazil all the sudden...
[20:42] <andygraybeal> i guess i have to read this article
[20:44] <andygraybeal> lots of gamer talk i'm like so sick of gamer talk
[20:44] <andygraybeal> but i get the analogy
[20:44] <dzho> yeah, it might not be the metaphor for you
[20:44] <dzho> dunno
[20:44] <dzho> in general, I like the idea of finding ways to talk about this stuff without getting people's backs up so much, you know?
[20:46] <andygraybeal> what is this "if you see something, say something" ?
[20:46] <andygraybeal> i understand your slant
[20:46] <andygraybeal> i like it too
[20:50] <dzho> that phrase is more often used in the context of scare-everybody big brother anti-terrorism watchout posters and stuff
[20:50] <dzho> I'm ripping it off here and repurposing it.
[20:51] <andygraybeal> yea, that is why i mentioned 'brazil'  :)
[20:51] <andygraybeal> i mean the big bro stuff
[20:51] <dzho> haha, ok
[20:51] <andygraybeal> so explain a little better, your offended by me?
[20:51] <andygraybeal> er.. rather, did i offend you?
[20:52] <dzho> I'm not that easily offended, but in general, like to see the stuff like "is she hot" left out.
[20:52] <dzho> http://xkcd.com/322/ <- other literature reference
[20:53] <andygraybeal> nice ;)
[20:53] <andygraybeal> i'm not the brightest, so it was a stretch for me to get from a to b as you had drawn it.  i needed the extended version :)
[20:54] <andygraybeal> anywya, thank you.
[20:54] <dzho> also, I'm old enough, strictly speaking, to be a grandfather, so the idea that someone can't be hot because they are "older than my mom" does not agree with my view of the world :-)
[20:54] <andygraybeal> ah well, leave me out of that, i had nothing to do with that statement :)
[20:55] <dzho> haha, true
[20:55]  * dzho glares at thafreak
[20:55] <dzho> granted, I don't know how old thafreak's parents might be
[21:06] <andygraybeal> dzho, if you've already told me, i dont' remember, where are you located?
[21:08] <andygraybeal> i live in beautiful southeastern ohio :)
[21:09] <dzho> western New York, currently
[21:09] <andygraybeal> ah cool
[21:10] <dzho> I've got family from SEO, friends from NEO, lived for a while in west-central Ohio and worked a little in Cinci
[21:10] <andygraybeal> i tried out NYC for a half a year or so when i was younger, i mowed lawns and ran cat5 in skyscrapers :)
[21:10] <dzho> and, went to my first OLF last fall
[21:10] <dzho> went to NYC for only my second time last month
[21:10] <andygraybeal> ah, i will go to OLF this year for sure.
[21:10] <paultag> man, I should make plans to be at OLF as well
[21:14] <andygraybeal> mowing lawns on stattan island was pretty posh :)
[21:14] <andygraybeal> everyone has a postage stamp sized lawn and pays way too much for service :)
[21:15] <andygraybeal> running cat5 was pretty awesome in the skyscrapers was pretty fun too.. looking out the windows :)
[21:17] <andygraybeal> that was in 1999 :)
[21:17] <andygraybeal> or 98
[21:35] <thafreak> dzho: generally speaking, doesn't matter how old my parents are, I'm not about to hit on anyone older then them...
[21:37] <dzho> haha, fair enough
[21:37] <dzho> so say we all
[21:38] <thafreak> i hate the msn/bing commercials...
[21:38] <thafreak> they did one where everyone was talking about honeybadgers, and all but one woman
[21:39] <thafreak> and she looks at her phone, and bing says "honey badger don't quit"...
[21:39] <thafreak> get it right msn, it's honey badger don't give a shit...
[21:41] <thafreak> http://theoatmeal.com/comics/tesla
[21:41] <thafreak> wish i could name my future son after tesla
[21:50] <thafreak> " Originally Tesla wanted to be a poet, but after getting zapped by static electricity from his kitty he was inspired to study the effects of electricity. One could vaguely construe that Tesla's cat was responsible for the second industrial revolution, which arguably makes it the most awesome cat who ever lived."
[22:21] <andygraybeal> nice :)


[10:45] <KGB-0> gnome-control-center ubuntu/master 4b18435 Sebastien Bacher debian/ changelog control control.in * https://deb.li/Hnjx
[10:45] <KGB-0> * debian/control.in:
[10:45] <KGB-0>   - restore recommends on system-config-printer-common, it is needed
[10:45] <KGB-0>     as a backend for the printing panel (lp: #2033059)
[10:45] -ubottu:#ubuntu-desktop- Launchpad bug 2033059 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu) "Unable to add a printer" [Undecided, New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2033059
[10:45] <KGB-0> gnome-control-center ubuntu/master 4e7bc47 Sebastien Bacher debian/changelog * releasing package gnome-control-center version 1:45~rc-1ubuntu2 * https://deb.li/3RFvE
[10:46] <KGB-0> gnome-control-center tags 4e7bc47 Sebastien Bacher ubuntu/1%45_rc-1ubuntu2 * https://deb.li/T2Rl
[19:01] <Eickmeyer> I can't find a bug report, but is anybody aware of an issue if the accent color in mantic is changed but the gnome-shell accent doesn't change? I don't see it being tracked anywhere.
[20:47] <jbicha> Eickmeyer: I am experiencing that issue too, please file a bug
[20:48] <Eickmeyer> jbicha: Against gnome-shell or yaru-theme?
[20:49] <jbicha> gnome-shell but you can add a yaru-theme task
[20:50] <Eickmeyer> jbicha: Sounds good.
[20:55] <Eickmeyer> jbicha: bug 2033688
[20:55] -ubottu:#ubuntu-desktop- Bug 2033688 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "gnome-shell fails to follow accent colours" [Undecided, New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2033688
[23:08] <KGB-0> gnome-shell-extension-easyscreencast pipeline Samuel Henrique 572901 * pending (piuparts: created; blhc: created; autopkgtest: created; reprotest: created; test-crossbuild-arm64: created; test-build-all: created; test-build-any: created; build source: created; build i386: created; extract-source: pending; lintian: created; build: created)
[23:15] <KGB-0> gnome-shell-extension-easyscreencast pipeline Samuel Henrique 572901 * [7 minutes and 9 seconds] failed (piuparts: failed; autopkgtest: success; reprotest: success; lintian: success; test-build-all: success; test-build-any: success; test-crossbuild-arm64: success; blhc: success; build i386: success; build source: success; build: success; extract-source: succ
[23:15] <KGB-0> shell-extensionsess)


[07:54] <dholbach> good morning
[08:58] <yaili> good morning
[09:00] <nigelb> Morning yaili. How was the move? :)
[09:01] <yaili> nigelb: good, thanks
[09:02] <nigelb> :)
[09:14] <mainerror> Good morning.
[11:39] <doctormon> hey mainerror
[11:40] <doctormon> MrChrisDruif: Yes
[16:59] <wendar> meeting coming up in a few minutes...
[16:59] <MrChrisDruif> I'll try to attend it with my mobile
[17:02]  * MrChrisDruif is semi present
[17:04] <wendar> greetings all
[17:05] <wendar> #startmeeting
[17:05] <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Dec  7 17:05:18 2011 UTC.  The chair is wendar. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
[17:05] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[17:05] <AlanBell> o/
[17:06] <wendar> I've started collecting introductions, so we all know who eachother are
[17:06] <wendar> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesignTeam/Introductions
[17:06] <wendar> anyone new this week, like to say hi and let us know what you're interested in?
[17:08] <bwinton> Hi, I'm Blake Winton, the UX lead for Thunderbird.  I don't really have a lot to say here, so I'll mostly be lurking.  ;)
[17:08] <wendar> welcome, bwinton :)
[17:09] <wendar> everyone, feel free to edit the introduction I pasted in for you (straight from earlier meetings)
[17:09] <wendar> or, add one if I missed you
[17:09] <wendar> [TOPIC] current projects
[17:10] <wendar> The two main things we're working on at the moment are a quick design review of the 4digits game, and more generally on design tools.
[17:10] <wendar> (tools/worklflows)
[17:11] <wendar> Any updates on the tools front over the past week?
[17:13] <wendar> What I'd like to do today is more of a practical working session, that actually involves both projects.
[17:14] <wendar> Specifically, the next step on 4digits is to start taking screenshots, marking them up, and figuring out what we want to improve.
[17:14] <wendar> But, we're struggling a bit with tools.
[17:15] <wendar> One suggestion is inkscape, but it's hard for multiple people to collaborate over an inkscape doc.
[17:15] <wendar> A bunch of people have been trying out different tools in the past few weeks.
[17:16] <wendar> Do you have some suggestions?
[17:17] <wendar> AlanBell: could Pencil help here? Or, the same collaboration limitations?
[17:19] <MrBadWiki> o/ just saying "hi"
[17:21] <wendar> hi DrDruif, welcome
[17:21] <DrDruif> Thanks
[17:21] <wendar> would you like to introduce yourself?
[17:22] <DrDruif> I'm on a mobile with only touchscreen input, so I'll keep it short
[17:23] <DrDruif> My normal IRC name is MrChrisDruif, I've joined ubuntu beginners about a year ago and more recently I've become active again with ubuntu tv and tablet
[17:24] <DrDruif> AlanBell already knows me as well as a few others
[17:25] <DrDruif> I've got no history in graphics or design, but I'd like to learn about it.
[17:25] <DrDruif> That's it for now =)
[17:25] <wendar> very cool, glad you could join :)
[17:26]  * DrDruif celebrates the joys of modern technology =)
[17:27] <wendar> AlanBell: I'm thinking we're going to end up using google docs for now.
[17:28] <Omega> Hello!
[17:28] <DrDruif> For text files? (I've missed a part of the meeting)
[17:28] <DrDruif> Hi Omega
[17:29] <Omega> I'm Omega, I've been using Ubuntu for a while, I've no background in graphics nor design either! What I am interested in is the thought that goes after design :)
[17:29] <DrDruif> Etherpad also works pretty well for text files and multi person editing
[17:29] <Omega> s/after/behind
[17:30] <DrDruif> You can even see who changed what
[17:30] <wendar> DrDruif: for images, particularly for marking up screenshots of an app to highlight areas for design improvements
[17:30] <DrDruif> Alright
[17:30] <wendar> DrDruif: Etherpad for images would be awesome :)
[17:31] <mhall119> doctormon was working on some ideas for that
[17:32] <DrDruif> Indeed, but if everyone just wished it would be available/useable in etherpad, then nobody will do it. The devs of etherpad should know about it
[17:33] <DrDruif> Good to hear about doctormon is doing something about it =)
[17:33] <mhall119> the devs of etherpad work for Google now, doing something else.  Maybe the Etherpad Lite folks though
[17:35] <DrDruif> And the code from google wave? Is that any useable?
[17:35] <wendar> mhall119: that's true, doctormon mentioned it last week (was looking for a link), I'll check in with him and see if it's usable yet
[17:35] <wendar> mhall119: it may be a "next project we can use this" thing
[17:36] <wendar> DrDruif: was that code ever open sourced?
[17:37] <DrDruif> It's free to download, but only for a limited time. They've abandoned the project
[17:37] <DrDruif> And they'll want to remove it from their servers
[17:39] <DrDruif> I didn't party any notice to it, because it was to no use for me (not a dev as well)
[17:39] <DrDruif> Party is pay
[17:39] <mainerror> Did I miss the meeting?
[17:40] <DrDruif> And I hope it's still available
[17:40] <DrDruif> Still going mainerror
[17:40] <mainerror> Great.
[17:41] <DrDruif> I'll look it up when I'm back home if there is any interest
[17:41] <wendar> DrDruif: interesting, did they release the code with the idea that someone else might pick it up and maintain it?
[17:42] <DrDruif> I'd have to look it up
[17:42] <wendar> DrDruif: oooh, look http://incubator.apache.org/wave/
[17:43] <wendar> So, they handed it over to Apache
[17:43] <DrDruif> If you say so, I'd have to look it up
[17:44] <wendar> I just ran across it from http://code.google.com/apis/wave/
[17:44] <wendar> mainerror: so, we're talking about what tools to use for 4digits
[17:45] <mainerror> Yup. Just read the transcript.
[17:46] <wendar> I'm still thinking we're going to end up on google docs for now, so we're not blocking the tiny project on tools.
[17:46] <DrDruif> Agreed
[17:46] <mhall119> +1
[17:47] <wendar> I'd be happier with open tools, but we're working on those at the same time, and will have them for later projects.
[17:47] <mainerror> +1
[17:48] <mainerror> We can use the Drawing function.
[17:49] <wendar> mainerror: ah, trying it out now...
[17:49] <wendar> yeah, looks workable
[17:49] <mainerror> https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1rSPWpmu6L6APUUzsxL2OySNmCbabF3QXRVOnZTNf-s4/edit
[17:49] <mainerror> This is an example.
[17:50] <mainerror> People can now join my session with this link and participate.
[17:51] <mainerror> At least I hope they can.
[17:51] <mainerror> Can anyone confirm it?
[17:52] <DrDruif> Maybe later
[17:53] <mainerror> Oh yea, to edit it you have to be logged in with the current settings.
[17:54] <wendar> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fkV98vNooG8y8BlAeZ5WAL-5tT-57FpC2MD8qI0tS94/edit?hl=en_US
[17:54] <mainerror> Now everyone can edit it.
[17:54] <wendar> yah, zigactly, lovely
[17:55] <DrDruif> =)
[17:55] <wendar> and, the drawings can be tied together in a text document, so you can walk through the app in sections
[17:55] <wendar> with some description between
[17:56]  * DrDruif is on sake
[17:56] <mainerror> So until we have our own tool I think this is a good option.
[17:57] <mainerror> Alright. What is next on the agenda?
[17:58] <wendar> yup, I'm getting real-time updates as we edit
[17:59] <wendar> mainerror: someone mentioned this week that they were interested in participating, but weren't sure what tasks were on offer
[18:00] <wendar> I think it'd be useful to start collecting together "ways you can get involved in design with Ubuntu"
[18:01] <wendar> we have the two projects, a little game, and moving forward tools
[18:01] <wendar> but, that's just what's new
[18:02] <wendar> there's icons for projects, teams, and websites
[18:02] <wendar> there's the tv/tablet/phone projects
[18:02] <wendar> and lots of other pieces volunteer designers have already been doing
[18:03] <DrDruif> That's where I'm focusing attention
[18:04] <DrDruif> Tv and phone that is
[18:04] <mainerror> For that problem I would like to propose the use of https://trello.com/
[18:05] <mainerror> The Community team is trying it out as well.
[18:05] <DrDruif> Trello?
[18:05] <wendar> looks cool, is it open source?
[18:06] <mainerror> Uhm, I'm not quite sure if it is to be honest.
[18:06] <wendar> doesn't look like it, too bad
[18:07] <mainerror> https://trello.com/board/community-team/4e6febfb247e35000000aab1
[18:07] <wendar> but, again, use what you've got, build something better :)
[18:07] <mainerror> This is the community team trello board.
[18:08] <mainerror> The problem is that right now I couldn't tell what someone could work on.
[18:09] <mainerror> We need something where people always know whats going on.
[18:09] <wendar> you can't tell from the community team's trello board?
[18:09] <wendar> or, you can't tell from the design side, and it's easier with the trello board?
[18:09] <mainerror> I'm talking about us right now.
[18:09] <mainerror> You can tell from the community trello board.
[18:09] <wendar> agreed, right  now it's tough to find a design task to pick up
[18:10] <wendar> I'd be happy to try out trello
[18:10] <mainerror> I mean we could also make use of the harvest site.
[18:10] <mainerror> Was it called like that? I'm not sure.
[18:10] <wendar> you mean http://harvest.ubuntu.com/?
[18:11] <mainerror> Yup, that's the site.
[18:11] <wendar> like, add a "design" tab at http://harvest.ubuntu.com/opportunities/
[18:12] <mainerror> Yea, that'd be an option I guess.
[18:12] <wendar> looks like it's organized by package
[18:12] <wendar> we have more freeflowing tasks
[18:12] <DrDruif> Opportunities? I'm interested
[18:14] <wendar> DrDruif: it's a site that helps people find bugs to work on
[18:14] <mainerror> Well the harvest site should be open source I guess. We could investigate on that and find out if we could use it for us. Self-hosted and modified.
[18:14] <wendar> mainerror: yes, that's a good tool to follow up on
[18:14] <wendar> also, ubuntu brainstorm
[18:15] <mainerror> Indeed although UB would need a heavy redesign if you ask me. Not that it'd stop us from using but still.
[18:16] <wendar> contributing design work to existing tools is certainly in scope for the group
[18:16] <wendar> it's a collaborative thing
[18:16] <DrDruif> I'm dining of. I'm at a dinner (japanese)
[18:17] <wendar> brainstorm is more "post a design problem, and post alternative solutions, then get review and feedback on the solutions"
[18:17] <wendar> but, it's very text oriented at the moment
[18:17] <wendar> still, potential, down the road
[18:18] <wendar> jono (if you're listening): have you been using trello? any thoughts on how well it works?
[18:19] <mainerror> Oh I actually meant a redesign of its UI. Get rid of some clutter, get it in line with the official Ubuntu webdesign guidelines.
[18:20] <wendar> that's in scope too, if the maintainers are amenable to collaborating on it
[18:20]  * mainerror nods
[18:20] <wendar> I know nuthinking has been trying to get in touch with the brainstorm maintainers
[18:21] <wendar> (to volunteer some design time)
[18:21] <nuthinking> wendar: I am leaving the office
[18:21] <nuthinking> wendar: but
[18:21] <nuthinking> wendar: I can tell you that while there should be resources to update its look and feel
[18:22] <nuthinking> wendar: there aren't resources to improve its functionalities
[18:22] <nuthinking> wendar: do you need any other information before I leave? :)
[18:22] <mainerror> Well I'd be happy with the look and feel improvements already.
[18:22] <wendar> nuthinking: that's great, thanks!
[18:22] <nuthinking> ok, I go home then! ;) Bye everyone!
[18:23] <mainerror> Bye.
[18:23] <wendar> yeah, the functionality is useful now
[18:23] <jono> wendar, I haven't used it much, but Jorge has :-)
[18:23] <jono> he seems to like it
[18:23] <mainerror> Oh yea, if you guys want an invite in the Ubuntu Design Trello team, please send me your email address.
[18:25] <wendar> mainerror: I was just going to ask if you'd created one already :)
[18:25] <wendar> mainerror: sure, I'll join and try it out
[18:27] <wendar> Any other topics for this week?
[18:27] <mainerror> Not from my part.
[18:27] <mainerror> I just wanted to tell you about Trello. :)
[18:28] <wendar> :)
[18:28] <wendar> cool, thanks everybody!
[18:28] <wendar> #endmeeting
[18:28] <meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Dec  7 18:28:23 2011 UTC.
[18:28] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-design/2011/ubuntu-design.2011-12-07-17.05.moin.txt
[18:29] <mainerror> Oh yea. The screenshot in the Google Drawing doc is for this bug report.
[18:29] <mainerror> 891804
[18:29] <mainerror> bug 891804
[18:29] <webbugs> Launchpad bug 891804 in software-center (Ubuntu) "Software Center wastes space" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/891804
[21:31] <MrChrisDruif> Hi everyone
[21:32] <MrChrisDruif> wendar, did
[21:32] <mainerror> Hello.
[21:33] <MrChrisDruif> I miss much after I left?
[21:33] <wendar> hi
[21:33] <MrChrisDruif> mainerror, hi
[21:33] <wendar> MrChrisDruif: nope
[21:33] <wendar> we talked a bit more about brainstorm
[21:34] <MrChrisDruif> Brainstorm.ubuntu.com ?
[21:34] <wendar> yup, mainly just about "updating" the design to go with the other ubuntu sites
[21:35] <MrChrisDruif> Alright
[21:35] <wendar> and jasox and I are going to start collecting screenshots of 4digits
[21:35] <MrChrisDruif> Did we go into the theme of moinmoin on wiki and help?
[21:35] <wendar> nope, didn't go into that
[21:36] <wendar> did you have a question/idea there?
[21:36] <MrChrisDruif> What is 4digits actually? ^_^
[21:36] <MrChrisDruif> I didn't check the website tbh
[21:36] <MrChrisDruif> I'll check it later
[21:37] <MrChrisDruif> Well, two things actually
[21:39] <MrChrisDruif> The new theme recently added lines above every header, which can be added manually. I think it's *not* a god idea to force it with every header
[21:40] <MrChrisDruif> And when is ubuntu planning on changing the theme on help?
[21:41] <MrChrisDruif> I think the new theme is ready for prime time on help
[21:46] <MrChrisDruif> ?
[21:48] <MrChrisDruif> I'll be back in a bit. Mobile internet probably isn't responding and need to ride my bike
[21:48] <mainerror> You mean the login header?
[22:04] <MrChrisDruif> Good evening
[22:34] <MrChrisDruif> Was every message I send received here?
[22:34] <MrChrisDruif> About my ideas about the moinmoin theme?
[22:35] <mhall119> MrChrisDruif: yes
[22:36] <MrChrisDruif> Alright, I wasn't getting any response, but I'm blaming that on my mobile/carrier network
[22:36] <mhall119> I think there just wasn't anybody around to respond
[22:37] <MrChrisDruif> wendar was around at the time I think
[22:37] <MrChrisDruif> Btw, I'm finally home =)
[22:38] <mhall119> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/12/07/%23ubuntu-design.html#t21:35
[22:40] <MrChrisDruif> Haha, mainerror responded just after I left =)
[22:42] <MrChrisDruif> mainerror; no I didn't mean the login header (single sign-on thing you meant right?) I'm talking about the actually wiki pages. You can have different "headers" or what their name might be
[22:42] <MrChrisDruif> That are those == Title 2 == things etc...
[22:54] <MrChrisDruif> ??
[22:57] <MrChrisDruif> Nobody?


[00:08] <len-nb> ScottL, I have pulled the settings package with bzr and am making changes for menus and panel. I can fix these other problems at the same time if you like.
[00:09] <len-nb> You may wish not to make any changes to this package right now so you can just use what I upload... err push
[00:21] <len-nb> ScottL: I have changed workspace-count to 4
[00:26] <CFHowlett> any chance we can get the etched desktop wallpapers released or included?    https://wiki.edubuntu.org/UbuntuStudio/Artwork/OfficialOneiric
[00:28] <len-nb> ScottL wants to use one of them anyway CFHowlett, not sure what has to be done to get there
[00:29] <CFHowlett> len-nb   fingers crossed.  I really hope ALL of them get released even if they're not included in the official art.
[00:29] <len-nb> It wouldnot be that hard... i really like choice ;-)
[00:30] <CFHowlett> len-nb   they do have a particular understated elegance
[00:31] <CFHowlett> len-nb   looking at the same page, I've gotta say the AWN dock looks sweet as well.
[00:32] <len-nb> Still not my choice. i am doing some menu changes just now.. the AWN dock has lost it's support, no more development I hear
[00:35] <CFHowlett> len-nb   disappointing.
[00:35] <len-nb> There is talk about doing something similar, but not this cycle.
[00:36] <CFHowlett> len-nb   I'll live iwith it ...
[01:35] <len-nb> ScottL, please find changes in: https://code.launchpad.net/~len-ovenwerks/+junk/ubuntustudio-default-settings
[01:36] <len-nb> This should be able to be a straight replacement.
[01:37] <shnatsel> similar to elementary defaults :)
[01:38] <shnatsel> this means it should work
[01:38] <shnatsel> (most of elementary defaults work properly)
[02:05] <len-nb> shnatsel, I have used this as a drop in place of for a new iso install and it has worked for me
[02:56] <ScottL> len-nb, i'm building your package to test it, but i had trouble with the last line of your changelog where your name and timestamp are located, it kept giving an 'unexpected EOF' error in debuild
[03:00] <len-nb> ScottL, that shouldn't be the last line... let me take a look.
[03:02] <len-nb> The time is wrong. seconds are 3 digets instead of 2
[03:09] <len-nb> ScottL, sorry about that, it seems to be fixed now though. I have re-pushed it.
[03:42] <len-nb> I now know one of the things to look for. When looking at the file from LP the line numbers stopped before the end of the file... not at the mistake... but it did show there was a mistake.
[10:46] <knome> ScottL, there's some improvements on the US website
[11:33] <ScottL> oh cool, knome , i'll look at it tonight
[11:33] <knome> :)
[12:11] <scott-work> knome:  i'm very curious (i thought about this on my way to work), what types of changes were made and by whom?
[12:20] <knome> scott-work, visual changes by me ;]
[12:20] <scott-work> ooooh, now i'm _really_ curious
[12:20] <knome> polishing stuff
[12:20] <knome> well, you *should* be
[12:22] <scott-work> WOW!  it looks really, really good!
[12:22] <scott-work> that is awesome knome !
[12:22] <knome> thanks and good that you like it :)
[12:23] <scott-work> work is crazy busy, but i couldn't resist looking
[12:23] <knome> hehe
[12:56] <knome> scott-work, do you want the slideshow to progress automatically?
[13:03] <scott-work> knome: i would say yes, as long as we have the small dots to indicate progress and location then it shoudl be fine
[13:03] <scott-work> knome: i can't thank you enough for all of your and xubuntu's help this cycle
[13:03] <knome> i'm not sure how easy it would be to indicate progress
[13:04] <scott-work> knome: shouldn't one of the dots be a different color to indicate which "slide" is presently showing?
[13:04] <scott-work> that would indicate progress
[13:04] <scott-work> micahg 's help is likewise greatly appreciated
[13:05] <knome> maybe
[13:05] <scott-work> if is see either of you at a UDS or elsewhere i should buy you a beer (or two) or carry you bags for you if you don't drink :)
[13:06] <knome> heh, thanks. :) i don't think i'm making uds for Q though...
[13:09] <scott-work> i put in for sponsorship so i hope to make it, kate stewart has said that she wants all the leads at the various UDS's, but we'll see what happens
[13:10] <scott-work> knome: two questions for you:  1) is xubuntu going to try to implement the ubiquity plugin this cycle, and 2) is xubuntu going to create a modified lightdm greeter screen this cycle ?
[13:11] <scott-work> i'm leaning towards not doing either this cycle.  the number of people invovled is reducing and i'm tired
[13:11] <knome> 1) i think we're postponing 2) we are planning some improvements to the current greeter, the completely new greeter will be added next cycle
[13:11] <knome> well yeah, time is just running out
[13:12] <scott-work> i had really wanted to get these things done for the LTS version, but *sigh* i'm feeling like a need a little time away
[13:13] <knome> mmh.
[13:14] <scott-work> but i will also need to start thinking pretty soon about next cycle and what our goals might include
[13:14] <knome> did you see my precursory planning for xubuntu?
[13:15] <knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/q_planning/xubuntu-q.pdf
[13:39] <scott-work> knome: i did, that is what made me realize that i probably needed to start pretty soon :P
[13:40] <knome> ;)
[13:41] <knome> btw, there's now automatically progressing slideshow
[13:41] <knome> still need to indicate progress though
[13:42] <knome> heh, okay, that's it
[13:42] <knome> ;))
[13:52] <knome> scott-work, ping :)=
[13:53] <scott-work> knome: pong
[13:53] <knome> scott-work, look at the website now!!
[13:54] <scott-work> oh yeah, that looks good :)
[13:54] <scott-work> i see the slideshow moves and the outline around the current dot
[13:54] <knome> good :)
[13:54] <knome> so, what else is there?
[13:54] <knome> i mean, to it
[13:55] <scott-work> i think the major part is just content
[13:55] <knome> yep
[13:55] <knome> not how i fixed the tour buttons too?
[13:55] <scott-work> i'm sorry i don't remember the previous buttons, what did you change?
[13:56] <knome> well, just made them stable
[13:56] <knome> you'll notice the difference in the code too
[13:56] <scott-work> did the colour change as well?  it seems it might be slightly different
[13:56] <knome> shouldn't have :)
[13:57] <scott-work> okay, maybe it just seems different due to the background changes
[13:57] <scott-work> i'll have to look at the code later either during lunch or at home, i would have a hard time explaining what i'm doing if someone saw me
[13:57] <knome> sure ;)
[13:57] <knome> np
[13:58] <knome> i'm now pretty aware of what's going on everywhere, so if you want changes, i can make them happen quickly if you ping me in the next 24 hours
[14:01] <scott-work> i hope to squeeze fifteen minutes today while at work to review the ubiquity-slideshow information and website tour/'more info" pages
[14:01] <scott-work> as i believe these should be more or less parrallels of each other
[14:01] <knome> well, i'm not interested in content at this point :)
[14:02] <knome> if there is anything technical or visual you'd like to change however...
[14:06] <scott-work> i can see one thing, and i'm sorry to ask this after your efforts already on my behest, would you please remove the "blog" content from the menus?
[14:06] <scott-work> i still like the idea of informally documenting development, but i just don't think it will happen enough to warrant it's own section
[14:07] <scott-work> and i think as such it will just present a confusing situation to users
[14:07] <scott-work> news should be more than enough for the expected output
[14:17] <knome> sure, np
[14:18] <knome> would you like the articles in the "blog" section to be moved under "news" ?
[14:19] <scott-work> i don't think it's necessary to be honest, they could be deleted without disruption i would image, but please use what ever process is easiest for you
[14:55] <scott-work> micahg: is it too late to add the photography task to the seeds?  i mean in terms of FFe's and such?
[14:58] <len> scott-work, did my fix last night help? or was it too late?
[15:00] <scott-work> len: it got to be too late for me.  got up waaay too early going to work yesterday and wen to bed early
[15:00] <scott-work> however, i will do it first thing when i get home
[15:01] <len> NP, I am off to work  real quick. I really need to learn to build a package myself too.
[15:02] <scott-work> len: i can help you with that easily
[15:02] <scott-work> you can do it locally or use PPA
[15:02] <len> I am a few timezones down the road so I figured you had finished for the night.
[15:02] <scott-work> i kinda like ppa because i tend to do packaging on a persitent machine and then test on a "disposable" one that gets reformatted often for testing
[15:03] <scott-work> len: i stopped working on stuff around 8:00, between the kids in my room and being tired, i just gave up and went to bed
[15:03] <len> I started downloading the bzr-build stuff, but found that wasn't enough and I need more... I was too tired to go farther the PPA sounds interesting... I just didn't see it anywhere.
[15:04] <len> Have to run talk later...
[16:44] <knome> holstein, did you check out  http://knome.fi/temp/ubuntustudio/wordpress/  ?
[16:44] <knome> stochastic, hello
[16:45]  * holstein looking
[16:46] <holstein> mmmm... pretty!
[16:46] <holstein> i like
[16:46] <holstein> lets put it up!
[16:46] <knome> well, i think scott still wants to work on the content, and i can't blame him..
[16:48] <holstein> as long as we arent working out content in may for this ;)
[16:48] <holstein> our site is a deal breaker
[16:49] <holstein> i just answered a "is this project dead?" question
[16:49] <holstein> right now, it would be better if we *didnt* have the site we have
[16:49] <holstein> personally, id rather put up what we got there ASAP, and just have access to change the info
[16:49] <knome> yup. well, at least everything is ready for precise ;)
[17:20] <micahg> scott-work: no, shouldn
[17:20] <micahg> scott-work: no, shouldn't be too late
[17:42] <stochastic> hey knome, just started the coffee brewing, give me a minute or two until I'm present and ready to chat :P
[17:42] <knome> okay
[17:43] <stochastic> I also want to give the site a lookover to refresh memory first
[17:45] <knome> well, it's undergone some changes in the last 24 hours...
[17:52] <stochastic> I like the upgrades
[17:53] <stochastic> knome is it possible to have the 'feature window' on the front page load all of the background images upon page load so there is no lag when first clicked on?
[17:55] <knome> yes, i will need to look at that
[17:56] <stochastic> nice
[17:56] <stochastic> how about an automatic slow scroll through those items that is overridden as soon as one of the dots is clicked on?
[17:56] <stochastic> I know that's probably a bit hard
[17:57] <knome> i don't quite get what you mean
[17:57] <stochastic> say after 3seconds the second dot opens, then 3seconds later the next dot opens, if I click on the fifth or first dot, the auto changing stops
[17:58] <knome> right
[17:58] <knome> that's doable, not too hard too
[17:58] <knome> but i'm not sure if that is actually desired?
[17:59] <knome> what if the next timeout was just longer?
[17:59] <knome> i mean, when you click, instead of taking 8.5secs to advance, it was that *3?
[18:01] <stochastic> Oh, I didn't realize it's already doing that
[18:01] <knome> no, it isn't
[18:01] <knome> but it could
[18:02] <stochastic> it's advancing for me
[18:02] <knome> and that's really trivial
[18:02] <stochastic> at 8.5sec
[18:02] <knome> yeah, it should :)
[18:02] <knome> but i mean, when you click; instead of stopping completely, it would advance after, say, 30secs ?
[18:02] <stochastic> no, the current behavior is great
[18:02] <knome> okay
[18:03] <stochastic> on the download page, I only see the current release links until I scroll down
[18:03] <stochastic> most people wont' scroll down - not with those easy buttons
[18:04] <knome> in that case you need to rethink the content order
[18:04] <stochastic> is it feasible to put the two release options side-by-side
[18:05] <stochastic> In general I like the state of the site quite a bit right now
[18:06] <stochastic> I'd really like to find images for all of the feature window backgrounds so that none are duplicates
[18:06] <knome> side-by-side; not really, there's so little space
[18:06] <knome> maybe just list LTS first, like xubuntu
[18:07] <stochastic> hmm, I'm not sure that's desired
[18:07] <stochastic> I'll try to play with the layout of that content to see if there's another solution
[18:07] <knome> yep
[18:09] <stochastic> I think the background images for that feature window need to be set in stone before the upload to canonical as it'll just be a PITA to change later
[18:10] <knome> it's not. they can be managed from the admin interface
[18:10] <stochastic> oh yeah, I was thinking of the drupal way of managing that
[18:11] <stochastic> where is the admin login again?
[18:11] <knome> url/wp-admin
[18:14] <stochastic> what are your thoughts on the site right now knome?
[18:14] <knome> it's starting to build up
[18:15] <stochastic> the content isn't fully there, but a lot of sites are live with content in its infancy
[18:16] <knome> yeah, but in the most cases, that's bad
[18:16] <knome> there is still time before precise release to fix it
[18:16] <knome> you should at least get the basic right
[18:16] <knome> eg. no "ben, add content here" messages
[18:18] <stochastic> by all means we'll continue to improve it but I don't think the content should stop the cannonical review/upload process
[18:18] <knome> no, definitely not
[18:18] <knome> that has nothing to do with it
[18:18] <knome> and i'm not interested in the content, tbh ;)
[18:18] <knome> i just want to get it looking good and working.
[18:19] <stochastic> do you think it is?
[18:19] <knome> mostly now that i've worked a day with it
[18:19] <stochastic> I love the latest changes, really gives the site professional sparkle
[18:19] <knome> okay, the images are preloaded now
[18:20] <knome> try ctrl+shift+R
[18:20] <stochastic> cool
[18:20] <knome> it does come with a slight pause to the loading
[18:20] <knome> and probably more when you load *all* the images...
[18:20]  * knome is wondering if he should run that in the footer
[18:21] <stochastic> probably a smart idea
[18:22] <stochastic> ScottL, scott-work knome and I think the Canonical review of the site should get under way sooner rather than later.  Do you have the contact for this process?
[18:22] <knome> i do
[18:23] <stochastic> ah, perfect
[18:25] <stochastic> how much work do you think we/you need to spend on the design before the process begins?
[18:27] <knome> once i get the preloading done well, i think there is only trivial things
[18:27] <knome> and they can also be updated later
[18:28] <knome> so basically i'm waiting for an ACK from scott next
[18:30] <knome> the preloading is now pretty smooth
[18:51] <knome> off for a while, at least
[20:20] <scott-work> new qtractor hitting the repos - qtractor (0.5.4-1)
[20:21] <scott-work> knome: and stochastic: i would susggest that the main menu bar say only 'download' rather than 'download ubuntu studio'
[20:21] <scott-work> just a suggestion
[20:22] <knome> worksforme. you can change that from appearance -> menus
[20:35] <scott-work> okay, i'll do that when i get home then :)
[23:09] <knome> ScottL, will you ping me when you're home?
[23:16] <ScottL> knome, ping
[23:16] <knome> :)
[23:16] <knome> so do you think we need to change anything before we push this for staging?
[23:19] <ScottL> knome, do you mean on a fundamental, structural level as a website and not for content?
[23:21] <knome> anything technical or visual
[23:21] <knome> anything that needs touching on the code after we've staging will take time
[23:22] <knome> and code does include css
[23:29] <ScottL> knome, can i have this evening to go over it?  do we have enough time for that?
[23:32] <knome> yup. i'd imagine getting the site to staging takes up to at most 2 weeks, after that updates are pretty quick and pushing to production should be trivial too.
[23:33] <knome> but getting to staging might also take just a few days, but yeah, there's time
[23:33] <knome> i'd just like to get this rolling *now* :)
[23:35] <knome> if you want to go through it with me, that's fine too