[00:05] <amichair> apachelogger: ping
[00:35] <amichair> I think I've made progress with Bug #102792, but being a probabilistic bug, I need a little sanity check - would someone like to run a little test? just a couple lines of modified code...
[01:19] <claydoh> JontheEchidna ScottK, or anyone else: yes/no/maybe on kde4.3.3 in jaunty? inquiring forum members want to know :)
[01:21] <JontheEchidna> Probably, no. Which is not to say that we would stop anybody from doing it if they wanted to (and/or need guidance)
[01:25] <claydoh> JontheEchidna: muchas gracias
[01:27] <claydoh> was that a hint? :)
[01:30]  * claydoh should try more packging, but simply packaging kmymoney was a major brain drain for me
[01:30] <JontheEchidna> well, not for you, but for forum goers.
[01:31] <claydoh> :)
[01:31] <claydoh> timelord is spurning some good converstaions there
[01:31] <JontheEchidna> amichair: I can test
[01:33] <neverendingo> claydoh: you are the forum maintainer?
[01:43] <Lex79> JontheEchidna: help :P Should "docs" go to usr/share/doc/kde/HTML or to kde4/HTML ? in our base-workspace package they go to kde, but in Debian they go to kde4/HTML
[01:43] <JontheEchidna> kde/HTML
[01:44] <Lex79> ok thanks, base-workspace is not funny to merge :(
[01:44] <JontheEchidna> heh, yeah. that's a beast
[03:06] <maco> jjesse: psst if you use kmail, it can remind you that you forgot your attachment
[03:16] <jjesse> maco: d'oh
[03:16] <jjesse> haha sorry bout that
[03:33] <maco> jjesse: so ... about that attachment? resend
[03:33] <maco> ?
[03:40] <jjesse> oh sorry will do, heading to bed will resend
[03:58] <maco> hehe ok good night
[09:24] <amichair> JontheEchidna: ok, let me know when you're here
[09:33] <markey> aargs
[09:33] <markey> ShowCock is so freaking buggy, can we please get an update?
[09:33] <markey> it screws up all the time
[09:33] <markey> the version 0.6.6
[09:33] <markey> (ShowCock = Choqok, obviously)
[09:33] <markey> anyone got a PPA for 1.0?
[10:02] <glatzor__> hello Riddell
[10:02] <glatzor__> Riddell, when will PolicyKit-1 support land in KDE?
[10:15] <tsimpson> markey: the PPA for Alpha 2 is on their download page
[10:15] <tsimpson> https://launchpad.net/~neversfelde/+archive/experimental
[10:18] <ghostcube> ehlo humans :)
[10:25] <ghostcube> peoples can i kick the printer applet ?
[10:26] <ghostcube> it drives me nuts
[10:26] <ghostcube> :)
[10:27] <jussio1> ghostcube: patches welcome! :D
[10:28] <ghostcube> jussio1: hehe i know but i cant code so well to patch it i think so
[10:28] <ghostcube> :)
[10:30] <ghostcube> btw thx for the ppa with libxine + jack support :)
[10:32] <Riddell> ghostcube: what's wrong with it?
[10:32] <ghostcube> eh ?
[10:32] <Riddell> glatzor__: I don't know, I'll ask
[10:32] <ghostcube> Riddell: thwe printer applet ?
[10:32] <Riddell> yes
[10:32] <ghostcube> it just keeps crashing all the time on startup and on shutdown
[10:33] <ghostcube> no clean shutdown possible always error messages from crash handler
[10:35] <Riddell> mm, that's not good
[10:35] <ghostcube> i know ;)
[10:35] <Riddell> ghostcube: do you get a backtrace?  is it a python issue or a segfault issue?
[10:35] <ghostcube> but i need to install the debug packages to get an working bt
[10:35] <ghostcube> you typed faster
[10:35] <ghostcube> heh
[10:36] <Riddell> so you don't get a python backtrace?
[10:36] <ghostcube> will do this evening if i got the time too
[10:36] <ghostcube> Riddell: no it says bt not useful
[10:36] <ghostcube> so i think i need the dbg packages
[10:37] <Riddell> hum, so it's some issue in the bindins
[10:37] <ghostcube> seems so yes
[10:37] <ghostcube> maybe anything broke through th jaunty to karmic update ?
[10:38] <Riddell> it should be fine so long as all the packages are up to date
[10:39] <ghostcube> sure all updated
[10:40] <ghostcube> and all repos opened again to get all in
[10:40] <ghostcube> i will check whats the problem
[10:55] <apachelogger> amichair: pong
[10:55] <amichair> apachelogger: mornin :-)
[10:55] <apachelogger> ahoy
[10:55] <amichair> amichair: did u get a chance to look at the rest of the fixes?
[10:56] <amichair> apachelogger: : did u get a chance to look at the rest of the fixes?
[10:57] <apachelogger> unless there are new ones the other stuff should be goods
[10:57] <apachelogger> -s
[10:58] <apachelogger> amichair: did you resolve the issues I highlighted?
[10:59] <amichair> apachelogger: I copied the ppa code exactly from gtk in DialogAdd
[11:00] <amichair> apachelogger: I didn't convert to KDialog, coz all the other dialogs need conversion too, so that would best be done together in a separate fix rather than create inconsistency
[11:01] <amichair> apachelogger: (and is unrelated to to DialogAdd functionality itself)
[11:02] <apachelogger> well, I could cherry pick revisions :P
[11:02] <apachelogger> anyhow, if you think it is ready Ill take another look when I get to it
[11:02] <amichair> apachelogger: and of course, just skip the revision with the mime types :-)
[11:06] <amichair> apachelogger: I think that was it, just skip the mime types rev and include the last one with the ppa fix. and some didn't have changelog (should add according to cherrypick I guess)
[11:07] <amichair> apachelogger: also I think I've made progress with Bug #102792, but it's a sneaky one so if u have time to discuss it let me know
[11:16] <amichair> that is, I have a fix, but i can't point at the actual bug in QT yet, only it's neighborhood
[11:56] <Riddell> glatzor__: 33% done but a must have for fedora's next release so we should be able to assume it'll be done https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/KDE_PolicyKitOneQt
[11:56] <Riddell> http://websvn.kde.org/branches/work/polkit-qt-1/ and http://websvn.kde.org/branches/work/PolicyKit-kde/ is the code
[11:57] <Riddell> policy kit always seems to hideously complex
[11:59] <Riddell> ryanakca: looking at cmake now
[11:59] <ryanakca> Riddell: thanks
[12:02] <Riddell> ryanakca: do you know what libxmlrpc-core-c3-dev is needed for?
[12:03] <Riddell> oh it's just our version of libxmlrpc-c3-dev
[12:03] <apachelogger> amichair: just drop a mail to the list
[12:04] <Riddell> ryanakca: looks like libxmlrpc-c3-dev is in main now so we can just follow debian and build-dep on that
[12:05] <Riddell> ryanakca: I think cmake-gui dummy package isn't needed since debian uses Provides: cmake-gui on cmake-qt-gui
[12:06] <Riddell> ryanakca: also "keep maintainer mangling" doesn't need to be specified in the changelog, we know it has to be done for every package
[12:10] <Riddell> ryanakca: uploading!
[12:25] <ryanakca> Riddell: great, thanks
[12:51] <Riddell> "john do u how to get thur level 133 onksokoban microban easy"  this guy is persistent
[12:54] <Tm_T> Riddell: that's what?
[12:55] <amichair> Riddell: sounds like a bomb trigger code or something :-)
[12:58] <Riddell> Tm_T: someone who keeps e-mailing me
[13:23] <sebas> your ksobokan buddy!
[13:27] <JontheEchidna> amichair: hi
[13:27] <amichair> JontheEchidna: hola!
[13:28] <amichair> JontheEchidna: this very second I posted my findings the bug report, care to take a look?
[13:28] <JontheEchidna> sure
[13:28] <amichair> bug #102792
[13:30] <amichair> it seems to have a whole lot of duplicates and subscribers... why are many of the duplicate reports private? wish I could see if they have some useful info
[13:32] <JontheEchidna> Bugs reported semi-automatically via apport are set to private as a "safer rather than sorry" method to prevent sensitive data from showing up in the stacktrace
[13:32] <amichair> JontheEchidna: as in security holes?
[13:32] <JontheEchidna> It rarely happens though, so that's just triagers not bothering to unprivate them
[13:32] <JontheEchidna> amichair: The core dump may contain private info such as passwords the user was using at the time, etc
[13:32] <JontheEchidna> since it could be part of the stack at the time of the crash
[13:33] <amichair> JontheEchidna: oh right. ok then, I approve :-)
[13:34] <JontheEchidna> apport bugs usually never have good info, I've found. People who know how to do good bug reports usually do not use apport because they hate it :P
[13:35] <JontheEchidna> anyways, on to testing that fix...
[13:35] <amichair> JontheEchidna: I wonder if someone checked the statistics, how many apport reports have been closed and how quick relative to thers
[13:35] <amichair> statistics rock!
[13:38] <JontheEchidna> So replace the clear() in show_isv_sources with your snippet?
[13:39] <JontheEchidna> that... works!
[13:39] <amichair> yep, the 1 line with the 2 lines
[13:39] <amichair> so u've managed to recreate it, I assume?
[13:40] <amichair> JontheEchidna: do it a bunch of time - I'm aiming for statistical significance :-)
[13:40] <JontheEchidna> oh, I've been able to recreate this for a long while. Any time I check a checkbox, usually
[13:41] <JontheEchidna> It has not crashed 4/4 times whereas it used to crash 1/1 times
[13:41] <Tm_T> Riddell: sounds fun
[13:42] <amichair> JontheEchidna: I think a sample space of 1000 experiments should suffice. keep going!
[13:42] <amichair> :-P
[13:42] <JontheEchidna> :P
[13:45] <amichair> I'm gonna do some dishes, clean out some real bugs :-)
[13:45] <amichair> bbs
[13:54] <rgreening> sebas: ping
[13:57] <sebas> rgreening: pong
[13:57] <rgreening> hey sebas
[13:57] <sebas> hey roddie :)
[13:57] <rgreening> :)
[13:58] <rgreening> akonadi with google contacts.. any hints? The sync seems to lose info in either direction via kmail to google or google to kmail. I onle get 1 tel #, my name and 1 email...
[13:58] <rgreening> sebas: ^
[13:59] <sebas> rgreening: don't know, you can ask on #akonadi
[13:59] <sebas> many of my nice colleagues there to help :)
[13:59] <rgreening> sebas: cool. figured you might have an idea :)
[13:59] <rgreening> sebas: hows everything else?
[14:00] <sebas> pretty good
[14:00] <rgreening> cool
[14:00] <sebas> on networkmanager again
[14:00] <rgreening> heh
[14:00] <sebas> and even then it's still pretty good
[14:00] <rgreening> its working pretty solid for me
[14:00] <sebas> we've picked up on the plasmoid again
[14:00] <sebas> hopefully part of 4.4
[14:02] <amichair> JontheEchidna: well?
[14:02] <JontheEchidna> amichair: I've tried about 15 times with success each, followed by now 6 times without the patch for a crash
[14:03] <amichair> JontheEchidna: that's a good start
[14:03] <amichair> JontheEchidna: btw do u have any particular job here? what stuff do u work on?
[14:04] <JontheEchidna> oh, I do several things here and there... bug triage, packaging, coding
[14:05] <ghostcube_> ok you guys wanna lough
[14:05] <ghostcube_> ?
[14:06] <ghostcube> http://nancib.wordpress.com/2009/11/08/like-getdeb-now-you-can-get-their-packages-from-a-repo/?replytocom=2878#respond
[14:06] <ghostcube> second comment
[14:06] <ghostcube> i never read anything more unneeded
[14:08] <ghostcube> changing end of files tu .ubu
[14:08] <JontheEchidna> lol
[14:08] <ghostcube> i think some guys didnt get the intention of the deb packages
[14:08] <ghostcube> :D
[14:12] <amichair> JontheEchidna: do u have any idea what all the cdrom_sources code is about? is there a separate cdrom tree I'm missing?
[14:12] <JontheEchidna> cdroms show up in the same view as the other sources. I don't know if it's a separate tree
[14:16] <amichair> JontheEchidna: so what about the crashbug? any more tests we need? someone else to look into it? should I prepare the fix?
[14:16]  * Riddell moves 4.3.3 into kubuntu-ppa updates, where it should have gone in the first place
[14:17] <JontheEchidna> amichair: I'd say you could go and commit a fix in your branch. It looks fixed to me (tm)
[14:17] <amichair> JontheEchidna: oki
[14:19] <amichair> man, so much dup code here
[14:20] <JontheEchidna> I must say that a lot of our tools are not as well-maintained as they could be
[14:20] <apachelogger> hm
[14:21] <apachelogger> ghostcube: that was a quick laugh alright :D
[14:21] <ghostcube> apachelogger: yeah short joke
[14:21] <ghostcube> but it was funny
[14:21] <ghostcube> :D
[14:21] <Riddell> also moving qt 4.6 beta into experimental PPA
[14:21] <ghostcube> oi
[14:21] <ghostcube> cool
[14:21] <apachelogger> windows 7 shouldnt use exe, some of them exe files that worked perfectly fine on my windows 95, dont do anymoar!
[14:22] <apachelogger> just noticed that the other day
[14:22] <ghostcube> apachelogger: rofl
[14:22] <apachelogger> sad really :(
[14:22] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: maintained?
[14:22] <NCommander> ScottK, Riddell, ping. I think my patches to python-qt3 finally will get KDE moving to testing for easy merging/syncing
[14:22] <NCommander> ^- apachelogger
[14:22] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: ok, not really maintained at all
[14:22] <apachelogger> that also triggered a quick laugh
[14:22] <Riddell> neversfelde: what's the status of koffice2? if it's in experimental that means there's more to do?
[14:22]  * apachelogger got too much coffee again
[14:22] <jjesse> theres such a thing as too much coffee?
[14:22] <apachelogger> NCommander: neato
[14:22]  * ghostcube too 5 cans till now
[14:23] <NCommander> jjesse, unfortunately
[14:23] <ghostcube> yeah i have .05 liters can for coffee
[14:23] <ghostcube> 0.5
[14:23] <amichair> ghostcube: u get coffee in cans?
[14:23] <ghostcube> :)
[14:23] <apachelogger> all futuristic
[14:23] <Riddell> NCommander: what's the problem currently?
[14:23] <ghostcube> senseo 5  pads
[14:24]  * apachelogger notes that his flatmate is addicited to coffee in cans
[14:24] <ghostcube> das is ne thermoskanne
[14:24] <apachelogger> only the canned ones though
[14:24]  * ScottK gets coffee in cans, but it needs to be brewed before he can drink it.
[14:24] <NCommander> Riddell, sip4/python-qt4 upgrades broke python-qt3
[14:25] <NCommander> I unofficially adopted that package, and hit it with the cluebat, which should allow sip4 to migrate, and thus unblock part of python-qt4
[14:25] <NCommander> (I'm not sure if python-qt4 will move quite yet, some of its rdepends might hold it in place)
[14:25]  * apachelogger hands out cookies
[14:26] <ScottK> Caffeinated?
[14:26] <NCommander> Once this current mess is sorted, I'm adding a dh_sip/dh_python-qt4, etc to make sure we properly track ABI breaks in Debian to help sort this
[14:26] <apachelogger> Nightrose: I need a free cookies sign!
[14:26] <apachelogger> ScottK: of course :)
[14:26] <ghostcube> thc inated wouldnt be so helpful ScottK :D
[14:27] <ghostcube> boah iam typing to much not needed things today and getting nothing done here at office
[14:27] <ghostcube> o.o
[14:27] <amichair> apachelogger: here's one for u: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BovQyphS8kA
[14:27] <apachelogger> while we are at not doing things
[14:27] <apachelogger> my super important todo currently holds 12 items of which 4 are due tomorrow
[14:27] <apachelogger> yet I am not motivated at all
[14:27] <apachelogger> that could turn out bad
[14:28]  * ghostcube isnt motivated at all doing balance sheet here for 2008
[14:28] <ghostcube> -_-
[14:28] <apachelogger> C is for getting started with C++ :P
[14:28] <ghostcube> if you tell this an c coder he kills you
[14:28] <apachelogger> ghostcube: that is so yesterday anyway
[14:29] <apachelogger> oh, actually more like last year's
[14:29] <ghostcube> :D
[14:29] <apachelogger> srsly, I am attending a C course for no other reason than beig able to attend a C++ course next semester :P
[14:30] <ScottK> Have to walk before you can run.
[14:30] <ghostcube> isnt it so you can learn c++ without c i always thought this
[14:31] <apachelogger> amichair: cookie pwns doughnut :D
[14:31] <ghostcube> its harder but shouldnt be more complicated
[14:31]  * ghostcube thinks about going to subways chicken fajity is calling
[14:32] <apachelogger> well, there are other reasons than c++ being based on c :P
[14:32] <ghostcube> :)
[14:33]  * Sput thinks people are better off learning C++ without prior knowledge of C
[14:33] <Sput> because otherwise, first thing you have to do is unlearning Cisms anyway
[14:33] <ghostcube> Sput: i thought the same
[14:33] <Sput> that, or you end up like the average MS programmer.
[14:33] <Sput> (and API designer)
[14:34] <apachelogger> poor api designers :(
[14:34] <ghostcube> c++ declares and iterates all stuff different or
[14:34]  * txwikinger thinks people are better learning any proper language without prior knowledge of any form of BASIC in particular VBA
[14:34] <ghostcube> :D
[14:34] <apachelogger> VBA pwns all them over fancy languages
[14:34] <apachelogger> other even
[14:34] <apachelogger> there ... too much coffeee
[14:34] <ghostcube> i need another one oo
[14:34] <txwikinger> koffein addict!
[14:35] <ghostcube> i need coffein to get thc out of the way
[14:35] <ghostcube> :D
[14:35]  * amichair wants to see Scala gain pace... finally a new language done right!
[14:36]  * apachelogger grabs pen and starts drawing uml diagrams on the windows due to lack of whiteboard
[14:36] <ghostcube> maybe we should all bring to one speach  c-buntu
[14:36] <ghostcube> :)
[14:37] <apachelogger> kbasic!
[14:37] <ghostcube> yeah
[14:38] <apachelogger> amichair: how often people have been told that
[14:38] <apachelogger> all false prophets, err prophetic languages
[14:38] <ghostcube> isnt c or c++ still one of the fastest languages to code in
[14:38] <ghostcube> cause its no interpreter
[14:38] <ghostcube> :)
[14:39] <apachelogger> my mother would be faster at reading C and executing it than any given interpreter language could do the job :P
[14:39] <amichair> ghostcube: not really, the big ones have jit compilers which are about the same (sometimes better, sometimes worse) than compiled C/C++
[14:39] <ghostcube> hmm ok
[14:40] <ghostcube> i only know that python had reverted to c++ cause the python modules inside itself was to slow
[14:40] <ghostcube> :D
[14:40] <ghostcube> has been *
[14:40] <ScottK> ghostcube: I think Python is C, not C++
[14:40] <ghostcube> ups sorry
[14:41] <amichair> ghostcube: Jython runs on the JVM, so it probably inherits a bunch of the quickiness
[14:41] <ScottK> And that's a standard Python development paradigm.  Develop in Python and then optimize bottlenecks into C.
[14:41] <ghostcube> ScottK: ah ok havent known this
[14:41] <apachelogger> which then reads: develop in c
[14:41]  * ScottK thought Java and slow were synonyms.
[14:41] <MelisU> I like the Vala approach, I such a language for Qt would be cool. Without a lot of Cpp boilerplate and cruft.
[14:41] <apachelogger> ScottK: haha, dont get me started on java :D
[14:41] <amichair> ScottK: that's true, circa 1995 :-)
[14:42] <ghostcube> i have tried to not use java
[14:42] <ScottK> apachelogger: Premature optimization is the root of all evil.
[14:42] <ghostcube> so i used python cause i didnt wanted to start the troll
[14:42] <ScottK> amichair: For me it seems true each time I use a Java app.
[14:42] <apachelogger> no optimization is the root of apachelogger starting a discussion about how inefficient software uses the darn resources these days
[14:42] <ScottK> apachelogger: Agreed.
[14:42] <ghostcube> ok maybe we all should now take us an g5 macosx 10.6 and try java apps
[14:43] <ghostcube> then we will know why java and slow are calle the same
[14:43] <ghostcube> :)
[14:43] <apachelogger> ah bad example
[14:43] <apachelogger> everyone knows that java only works on windows
[14:43] <ghostcube> hehe
[14:44] <ghostcube> the one i hate most at the moment is .net
[14:44] <apachelogger> vb.net?
[14:44] <apachelogger> or asp.net?
[14:44] <apachelogger> or whatever they call them
[14:44] <ghostcube> i think so my programm here for tax is made in .net 3.5
[14:44] <ghostcube> :|
[14:45] <apachelogger> hm, right
[14:45] <ghostcube> i asked if they port it to mono
[14:45] <ghostcube> and they told me nah no way
[14:45] <ghostcube> :D
[14:45] <apachelogger> ScottK: I must ask you to revoke the statement about premature optimization
[14:45] <apachelogger> vb.net is the root of all evil
[14:45] <ghostcube> yeah
[14:45] <ghostcube> fucll ack
[14:45] <ghostcube> *-c
[14:45] <apachelogger> way too easy to create crappy code
[14:45] <apachelogger> kinda like python
[14:45] <apachelogger> just worse
[14:46] <ghostcube> very fast in coding inconsitent apps
[14:46] <ghostcube> i asked ADDISON if they dont do QA cause in kubuntu the QA is much better and no need to pay for
[14:46] <ghostcube> a day later the main programmer called me if i want to do beta testing
[14:46] <ghostcube> :D
[14:46] <apachelogger> lulz
[14:47] <apachelogger> poor programmer probably has to spend all his day hunting down issues
[14:47] <apachelogger> like I have to do with python :P
[14:47] <ScottK> Actually despite the slowness, I like the cross-platformness of Java.  I can participate in stuff using http://www.webex.com/ even though I'm pretty sure they don't know how to spell Linux.
[14:47] <apachelogger> I am seeing similarities here
[14:47] <ghostcube> yeah but they had an nice c++ app aöll wortking fine till office 2007 cames out
[14:47] <ScottK> ghostcube: What's Addison?
[14:48] <ghostcube> ScottK: ehm software for Taxation belance sheets and so on
[14:48] <ghostcube> tex cunsultant things
[14:48] <ScottK> Ah.  I see
[14:48] <apachelogger> ScottK: the cross platformness ends when you starts using non-standard stuff or stuff that is only part of suns java
[14:48] <amichair> http://langpop.com/
[14:48] <ScottK> apachelogger: Certainly.  All I know is it worked.
[14:49] <ghostcube> ScottK: http://www.addison.de/
[14:49] <txwikinger> I sometimes don't get it.. they start gnome because they have issues with the qt licences.. and then they do mono
[14:49] <ghostcube> damn only german
[14:49] <ScottK> I recall reading that Google typically advertises for both Java and Python experience when they hire Java coders because their experience is people that know Python are better programmers.
[14:49] <amichair> if I hadn't done most of my coding in java, I'd never be able to migrate to kubuntu... I'd be locked in to MSVC or .NET
[14:49]  * txwikinger can read German ;)
[14:50] <ghostcube> txwikinger: ;)
[14:50] <apachelogger> ScottK: the supervisor of my "project efficiency" project used to use a java based tool for recording his lectures ... 5 linux users failed to make it work on any recent distro
[14:50] <ghostcube> i think most of you know DATEV maybe
[14:50] <apachelogger> depends on like 5 external modules
[14:50] <ghostcube> ADDISON is the better opposite
[14:50] <apachelogger> amongst them is JMF
[14:50] <ScottK> apachelogger: I believe you.
[14:50] <apachelogger> an JMF is an abomination of live
[14:51] <txwikinger> DATEV is in banking api?
[14:51] <txwikinger> as
[14:51] <amichair> apachelogger: bad code can be written in any language. hell, there's a whole lot of code out there that doesn't work on *any* platform :-)
[14:51] <ghostcube> txwikinger: yeah
[14:51]  * apachelogger needs to stop writing typos and get some work down
[14:51]  * txwikinger once develop something for DATEV
[14:51] <txwikinger> +ed
[14:51] <ghostcube> could be yes :) the still do c c++ java and mysql as database
[14:51] <apachelogger> amichair: the code is actually quite good, the famework sucks in that particular example
[14:52] <ghostcube> txwikinger: addison uses kerberos and .net
[14:52] <ghostcube> brech
[14:52] <ghostcube> its good but so little not needed bugs driving you crazy cause of the .net shi
[14:52] <ghostcube> workflow is not good
[14:56] <Riddell> I wonder if qt3 can go into universe in lucid http://paste.ubuntu.com/314143/
[14:57] <Riddell> scribus, qcad and koffice seem to be necessary rdepends and they could be dropped or upgraded to qt 4
[14:57] <Riddell> which would leave lsb-desktop
[14:57] <JontheEchidna> I wonder if the scribus team thinks the version in scribus-ng is suitable for mainstream use yet
[14:59] <JontheEchidna> according to their website, yes!
[15:00] <Riddell> I wonder why qcad is in main at all
[15:01] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: in bug 479142 the user obviously upgraded his lust Oo
[15:01] <JontheEchidna> So then if we convince Debian to upgrade scribus 5o 1.3.5 and move koffice -> kde4 we'd be all set
[15:01] <JontheEchidna> s/5o/to
[15:02] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: except that qt 3 is still part of lsb and I presume ubuntu wants lsb in main
[15:02] <JontheEchidna> oh, hmm
[15:02] <apachelogger> SCRIBUS CAN NOT GO QT 4
[15:02] <apachelogger> upstream will beat us up, and do awful things
[15:03] <Sput> ah, you mean like javaaargh
[15:03] <apachelogger> also, scribus-ng is not anywhere as stable as stable, which is really why it is not stable yet
[15:03] <apachelogger> so stop even thinking about that
[15:03] <JontheEchidna> <IP_ADDRESS> is now advertised as their stable release on their website
[15:03] <Sput> and I wasn't srolled down :(
[15:03] <JontheEchidna> oh, nevermind
[15:03] <apachelogger> Sput: so it seems :P
[15:03] <JontheEchidna> shoot me
[15:03] <JontheEchidna> anyways, no need to keep it in main, right?
[15:04] <apachelogger> Oo
[15:04] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: what makes you think that?
[15:04] <JontheEchidna> oh, edubuntu needs it
[15:04] <micmord> JontheEchidna: lust==last  He speak english like me :-)
[15:05] <JontheEchidna> oh, makes sense
[15:06] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: we could pull a mandravia and remove qt3 entirely :P [/sarcasm]
[15:06] <JontheEchidna> you know if we even discussed doing that we'd be branded the worst of linux distros for forever
[15:06] <apachelogger> we could do a lotta things :P
[15:07] <Riddell> lsb seems to be dead, it's been in beta since 2006 as far as I can tell
[15:10] <apachelogger> sounds like poke the upstream
[15:10] <apachelogger> like poke the mole :D
[15:12] <Sput> Gentoo is just in the process of pruning KDE3 and Qt3 from the official repository :) we'll keep it in a user-maintained "PPA" until users lose interest
[15:12] <Sput> worst thing are open security bugs in 3.5.10 that nobody seems to be interested in fixing anymore...
[15:13]  * ScottK thinks ours are fixed.
[15:13] <Sput> yeah, we don't have the manpower :/
[15:13] <Sput> if upstream isn't interested anymore, we're getting rid of the software
[15:14] <Sput> masked two days ago, imagine what s***storm that caused :)
[15:14] <ScottK> Our manpower for that was Riddell.
[15:14] <Sput> well, he seems to have a clone army
[15:16]  * Sput fondly remembers the time when Gentoo deprecated xmms
[15:16] <Sput> users can be so conservative :)
[15:17] <amichair> what's the nicest py way of replacing a list's contents with another list's contents?
[15:19] <Riddell> lists = newcontents
[15:19] <ScottK> amichair: What's wrong with listfoo = listbar?
[15:19] <amichair> that replaces the list, not it's contents
[15:19] <ScottK> OK, what's the difference?
[15:20] <amichair> i.e. a list passed to a method, I want to fill it up. in the former, the local reference is replaced, and the caller doesn't see it. in the latter, the original instance is updated. I think...
[15:23] <amichair> does that make sense?
[15:25] <amichair> there is a difference between overwriting the reference and overwriting the value
[15:36] <amichair> ScottK: my q is how to do it py?
[15:37] <amichair> in py
[15:37] <ScottK> I'm not sure there's a difference in this case, but there may be.  I'd need to look some stuff up.
[15:37] <ScottK> Did you already try assignment and it didn't work?
[15:38] <amichair> yep
[15:38] <apachelogger> amichair: you mean like updating the content?
[15:38] <amichair> apachelogger: yep
[15:38] <apachelogger> e.g. pointer fun
[15:38] <apachelogger> amichair: you don't want to do that in python ... creates overhead (at least codewise) http://python.org/doc/2.5.2/lib/ctypes-pointers.html
[15:39] <amichair> apachelogger: nono, don't want anything like that
[15:40] <amichair> I think the answer is simpler than it sounds, I just don't know it
[15:40] <amichair> if a method gets a list, it can append to it
[15:40] <\sh> amichair, because it makes a copy of the list
[15:40] <amichair> how, equivalently, can it erase its contents and put in something else, which happens to be all the elements of a different list?
[15:40] <apachelogger> yeah, the difference between call by value and call by reference
[15:41] <apachelogger> I dont think latter is considered good pratcise in python
[15:41] <apachelogger> might be wrong though
[15:41] <apachelogger> anyhow
[15:41] <apachelogger> ->dinner
[15:41] <amichair> apachelogger: so python discourages utility methods, or any methods, that modify lists?? that doesn't sound reasonable
[15:42] <amichair> maybe just a simple combination of clear() and appendAll() (which don't exist)?
[15:42] <ScottK> amichair: Have a look at help(list) in a Python shell
[15:42] <\sh> amichair, http://mail.python.org/pipermail/tutor/2002-November/018828.html
[15:43] <\sh> amichair, last part is about lists
[15:45] <amichair> \sh: thanks, but I still can't find how to empty a list or replace its contents, other than a loop which pops elements one by one and then adds new ones one by one... ugly and inefficient.
[15:45] <amichair> anyway, I'll keep looking...
[15:45] <\sh> if you want the content of list A in list B, just B=A .. if you need only a couple of values from list A replace with values of list B, loop A and replace B[index A] or whatevetr
[15:46] <\sh> or of you want the content of list A appended to list B you need to loop as well and B.append(A[index])
[15:46] <amichair> \sh: that was the original suggestion, but it appears that B=A assigns the reference, not the value
[15:47] <amichair> which means someone else holding the same original reference will not see the change
[15:48] <\sh> amichair, oh well...C talking: char *a = "hello"; char *b; b=a ; printf("%c",b[1]); should be "e"...hopefully I'm correct
[15:50] <amichair> \sh: that looks correct, but the problem is how to pass 'a' to a method, and have the method change "hello" to "yello", and have the pointer outside the method see the change (in python)
[15:51] <\sh> amichair, the last part of that mail I posted explains what happens.
[15:51] <\sh> amichair, lists are mutable object, and can be changed inside a method, and the change is visible to the everybody else
[15:52] <amichair> \sh: it's close, but shows only access to individual elements. so it can be done, but with ugly and inefficient loops :-(
[15:53] <amichair> I'd expect clearing a list instance to be really basic, as it is in other languages
[15:53] <amichair> but apparently python is wierd :-)
[15:53] <\sh> amichair, http://paste.ubuntu.com/314179/ <- this is what the mail said
[15:56] <amichair> \sh: I don't see this in the link above. but still it modifies only one element
[15:56] <\sh> empting a list is just as simple: del listA[:] <- which deletes the elements from 0 to end
[15:56] <amichair> \sh: ah! that's getting closer
[15:57] <amichair> how strange that it's not a list method!
[15:57] <amichair> so I can do that, and then maybe append an entire other list, or use slicing (if i understood correctly)
[15:58] <amichair> \sh: that's a tad ugly, but should work well. thanks!
[15:59] <\sh> amichair, well...check this out: http://paste.ubuntu.com/314180/ <-
[16:01] <\sh> then you can see the diff between call by ref and call by value ;) x=5 \n y=6 \n listB=[x,y]  \n del x \n listB still has [5,6] , but a(listB) where a deletes element 1 from list (del listA[1]) gives print listB ==> [5] only one element left
[16:02] <amichair> yep, del should do the job (clear the value on the original reference)
[16:05] <\sh> amichair, yes
[16:05] <amichair> \sh: thanks
[16:06] <\sh> amichair, you need to see the differences between "immutable" and "mutable" python types
[16:07] <\sh> amichair, and you need to be careful: del listB e.g removes the complete object from the python view ;) listB doesn't exists anymore, therefore you can't access the values anymore, but somehow they are still in your memory, and will be GBed in time ;) the fun part starts if you push objects into the list ;)
[16:07] <\sh> s/GB/GC/
[16:08] <apachelogger> del is fun indeed :)
[16:08] <amichair> \sh: sure, I intended to use del listA[:], which does what we think it does :-)
[16:08]  * apachelogger was puzzled by how python does not want to do what apachelogger told it to :P
[16:09] <amichair> lol
[16:09] <amichair> 4 days with python, and I can tell that's it's general attitude :-)
[16:11] <apachelogger> yup
[16:12]  * apachelogger never liked snakes anyway
[16:12] <amichair> apachelogger: what do u like? other than coffee?
[16:12] <\sh> amichair, http://paste.ubuntu.com/314190/ <- this is really fun ;)
[16:12] <apachelogger> http://fractalbox.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/python_1.jpg
[16:13] <apachelogger> I dont like that
[16:13] <amichair> heh, funny how that came out... from a java dev
[16:13] <apachelogger> fatnugly beast
[16:13]  * ghostcube loves snakes
[16:13] <amichair> (I was actually referring to coffee :-) )
[16:13] <apachelogger> oh dear amichair got \sh started on a pycoderun
[16:14] <apachelogger> oh my
[16:14]  * apachelogger hides before he gets eaten by one of them python monsters
[16:15]  * amichair stares at the ceiling as he slowly backs away towards the door, ready for a sprint
[16:21] <apachelogger> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IckkZVwShd4
[16:21] <apachelogger> python vs gator
[16:23] <amichair> holy crap
[16:23] <amichair> one last bugfix, and I ain't touching python no more
[16:23] <neversfelde> Riddell: no, it is in staging and upgrades from the official koffice and koffice-kde4 are working fine for me and others. Unfortunately I cannot test upgrades from beta2 because the packages got somehow deleted.
[16:24] <Riddell> neversfelde: so I should test it and move it to beta backports if it works and remove the copy from experimental
[16:25] <neversfelde> Riddell: yes, do you have beta2 installed?
[16:25] <apachelogger> lol
[16:25] <apachelogger> amichair: if you are lucky enough if it will explode :D
[16:27] <amichair> apachelogger: I think that's what caused that crash bug
[16:27] <amichair> apachelogger: it must have tried to eat too many sources.lists
[16:28] <apachelogger> hah, greedy thing
[16:28] <Riddell> neversfelde: no, we'll just have to hope
[16:28]  * apachelogger recommends watching "Python swallows Deer" on youtube for more information about advanced python programming :P
[16:28] <apachelogger> Riddell: hope?
[16:29]  * apachelogger does not consider hope good enough
[16:29] <Riddell> apachelogger: know anyone with koffice beta 2 installed?
[16:29] <apachelogger> 2.1 beta2?
[16:30] <Riddell> yes
[16:30] <apachelogger> I suppose that can be installed?
[16:30] <Riddell> how?  the packages have vanished
[16:31] <ScottK> Do PPA packages live on in the librarian like archive ones do?
[16:31] <apachelogger> yes they do
[16:31] <apachelogger> and how did they vanish anyway?
[16:31] <Riddell> dunno, it's a mystery
[16:32] <JontheEchidna> I think I have beta2 installed
[16:32] <JontheEchidna> kword-kde4:
[16:32] <JontheEchidna>   Installed: 1:2.0.82-0ubuntu1~ppa3
[16:32] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: groovy, please upgrade to koffice from experimental
[16:32] <apachelogger> Deleted on 2009-10-29 by Alessandro Ghersi
[16:33] <JontheEchidna> sure thing
[16:33]  * apachelogger pokes Lex79 in the eye :P
[16:33] <neversfelde> JontheEchidna: can you test the upgrade to rc1, I expect some problems there
[16:33] <neversfelde> JontheEchidna: better from staging
[16:33] <Riddell> right, staging
[16:33] <Riddell> apachelogger: don't be mean to Lex79!
[16:33] <apachelogger> he was mean to koffice :P
[16:34] <apachelogger> anyhow
[16:34] <apachelogger> cookies for everyone!
[16:34]  * JontheEchidna adds staging to his now-uncrashy software-properties-kde
[16:35] <amichair> JontheEchidna, apachelogger: speaking of which, I just pushed the fix. have fun!
[16:35]  * apachelogger is going out for socializing
[16:35] <apachelogger> facebook doesnt cut it
[16:36] <amichair> JontheEchidna: what does staging mean?
[16:37] <JontheEchidna> this PPA right here: https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa/+archive/staging/
[16:38] <amichair> ah
[16:38] <amichair> well, that was a tough buffer. maybe I'll find me a cosmetic bug to fix now :-)
[16:38] <amichair> buffer/bugger/
[16:39] <amichair> say, is there gonna be a bugfix marathon or something? tidy things up before the LTS?
[16:40] <Riddell> the whole cycle should be more focused on bug fixing
[16:41] <neversfelde> is someone already working on koffice for lucid?
[16:42] <Riddell> nope
[16:42] <JontheEchidna> I've not touched koffice
[16:42] <Riddell> neversfelde: what needs doing that isn't already in that karmic rc package?  merging with debian?
[16:43] <neversfelde> Riddell: aren't we replacing koffice 1.6 with it?
[16:45] <Riddell> neversfelde: yes, so -kde4 endings should go
[16:45] <neversfelde> Riddell: and add transitional packages for -kde4?
[16:45] <Riddell> can do
[16:45] <JontheEchidna> http://paste.ubuntu.com/314211/
[16:46] <JontheEchidna> going for upgrading krita next
[16:46] <Riddell> humbug
[16:49] <JontheEchidna> krita went ok here, but I'd still take one more look at the debdiff since I already had --force-overwritten the koffice-data-kde4 package
[16:50] <neversfelde> I made some mistakes when updating the isntall files for beta1, thats the reason why I merged from debian. I have to leave for a few hours, but can fix this later, if nobody else can do it now.
[17:38] <amichair> how dows QA working in kubuntu? the wiki page seems to be a placeholder (https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/QA)
[17:43] <Riddell> "hopefully people test stuff and complain loud enough that we hear when it breaks"
[17:45] <ScottK> That and Riddell and davmor2 test a bazillion ISOs each.
[17:45] <amichair> oh.
[17:46] <ScottK> I tried to do some of the netbook ones in the last cycle, but it's mostly them.
[17:48] <amichair> same for the self-developed components?
[17:51] <Riddell> amichair: yes
[17:59] <ghostcube> hi thats the crash file i can save before logoff . i just see the crash report at logout http://pastie.org/690493
[17:59] <ghostcube> i think its not so helpful
[18:01] <ghostcube> oh for printer applet this is
[18:01] <ghostcube> :)
[18:02] <Riddell> it looks a bit like the crash caused by sip 4.9
[18:02] <dpm> Riddell, could you make sure https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kubuntu-lucid-translations gets scheduled when you've got time? I'm about to request the old community session to be unscheduled and I want to make sure we do have a session :)
[18:02] <Riddell> ghostcube: apt-cache policy python-sip4
[18:03] <Riddell> dpm: yes I'll do the scheduling tomorrow morning, I believe I have elite scheduling powers
[18:03] <dpm> Riddell, ok, thanks :)
[18:03] <Riddell> JontheEchidna, apachelogger: do you guys want to be around during that?  if so do you have a preferred time?
[18:04] <ghostcube> Riddell: youst a moment doing apt-get update
[18:04] <ghostcube> btw is it "safe" to use 4.6 from ppa `
[18:04] <ghostcube> its in dist-upgrade
[18:05] <ghostcube> Riddell: 4.9.1-snapshot-20091015-0ubuntu1
[18:05] <ScottK> ghostcube: It's the experimental PPA.  Of course not.
[18:05] <Riddell> nothing in experimental is safe
[18:05] <ghostcube> heh thats why i did it in ""
[18:05] <ghostcube> whats expected to be broken after :D
[18:05] <Riddell> I expect it works yes
[18:06] <ghostcube> is this sip4 to old ?
[18:08] <ghostcube> ah btw i found out why firefox 3.5.6 isnt using any apturl links in firefox  like getdeb or so
[18:08] <Riddell> ghostcube: that's the right version of sip4
[18:09] <ghostcube> Riddell: hmm ok any other things i should try
[18:09] <ghostcube> this startet after jaunty >> karmic
[18:19] <ghostcube> nah my webcam bug is back
[18:19] <ghostcube> ;_(
[18:20] <ghostcube> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/466935
[18:20] <ghostcube> anyone may have the same strange behaviours
[18:21] <ghostcube> it stoped at update it startet again working with kernel update yesterday
[18:21] <ghostcube> and stopped again 10 minutes ago after reboot
[18:38] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: on the 10th, the earliest I could do is 1400 UTC
[19:49] <amichair> Quintasan|Szel: sure, now what?
[19:49] <Quintasan|Szel> amichair: works for you?
[19:50] <Quintasan|Szel> srsly, I always has no major problems but tons of minor ones, in mine case, plasma crashes
[19:50] <amichair> u mean on the background?
[19:50] <amichair> right-click, add widget? works
[19:50] <Quintasan|Szel> nope
[19:51] <amichair> Quintasan|Szel: tell me what to do, I'll try
[19:51] <Quintasan|Szel> amichair: this will change your activities settings (if any)
[19:51] <amichair> that's the advantage of using a vm :-)
[19:52] <amichair> (I don't care :-) )
[19:52] <Quintasan|Szel> amichair: zoom out -> configure Plasma -> check both options -> zoom in, add Show Dashboard widget
[19:53] <Quintasan|Szel> amichair: click it, the try adding microblogging to dashboard
[19:54] <amichair> Quintasan|Szel: hmmm... when I click the 'show widget dashboard' icon, nothing happens
[19:55] <Quintasan|Szel> hmm
[19:55] <Quintasan|Szel> did you check Use separate dashboard in Plasma options?
[19:56] <amichair> yep, both checkboxes
[19:56] <amichair> does it matter if it's a livecd?
[19:57] <Quintasan|Szel> dunno, at least it crashes in mine case
[19:58] <amichair> btw, I do highly recommend using a vm (I use virtualbox) for recreating issues and checking - u get to check different versions and configurations, can't mess up anything, and fully reproducible
[19:58] <amichair> u can always go back to a known state (snapshot)
[19:59] <Quintasan|Szel> I know that however my machine has no support for virtualisation and everything is slooow as slowpoke
[20:00] <Quintasan|Szel> I will have a new machine with i5 tomorrow or on thursday
[20:00] <amichair> I used to use virtualbox on a p4, and it was pretty decent
[20:00] <amichair> Quintasan|Szel: cool!
[20:01] <Quintasan|Szel> well, I'm happy, using same ol' Athlon 64 is PITA
[20:01] <amichair> hmm the zoom in icons on one of the desktops are missing, and are shown only when the mouse moves over them, looks like a painting bug
[20:02] <Quintasan|Szel> whole ZUI is slow for me, guess thats my komputer for you :P
[20:02] <Quintasan|Szel> even Komputer
[20:03] <amichair> and it's always zooming into the same one, can't get back to the original (doesn't matter on which zoom button I click)
[20:03] <amichair> messed up
[20:05] <amichair> oh well
[20:35] <neversfelde> Riddell: koffice fixed, I move it to the backports beta ppa, ok?
[21:25] <Riddell> neversfelde: yes please
[21:25] <neversfelde> Riddell: already done
[21:26] <Riddell> great
[21:26] <amik> apachelogger: found a gpg file example: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-properties/+bug/133937/comments/9. if he made the mistake, anyone can :-)
[22:21] <amichair> apachelogger: or better yet, http://ppa.launchpad.net/apachelogger/ubuntu/dists/karmic/Release.gpg. so *.gpg should definitely be included...
[22:35] <ghostcube> question who codet apturl
[22:35] <ghostcube> :)
[22:41] <ScottK> vorian: Please don't mark yourself essential for a spec when you aren't going to be at UDS (unless something changed, in which case, cool).  It makes it impossible to schedule.
[22:42] <ghostcube> can anyone explain how apturl need to be feeded with links
[22:42] <ghostcube> ??
[22:42] <ghostcube> we trying to get this into midori
[22:42] <vorian> ScottK: whoopsie
[22:53] <Tscheesy> ghostcube: http://wiki.ubuntuusers.de/apturl and https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AptURL
[22:54] <ghostcube> thx


[01:13] <ahoneybun> back
[01:13]  * ahoneybun is downloading AOSP code to try to build 4.4 for his Galaxy Nexus
[10:59] <lordievader> Good morning.
[11:31] <BluesKaj> Hiya folks
[16:19] <ahoneybun> hey
[16:19] <littlegirl> Hey there. (:
[16:20] <littlegirl> I saw the mention of the bzr repository in the mailing list and got all excited, and then realized that's probably for packages and not docs. ☹
[18:27] <ScottK> cyphermox: Nevermind on my tethering problem with Galaxy S3.  I tried it again today and it works.
[21:22] <apachelogger> ScottK: fwiw the qreal float -> double change would break ABI and API
[21:23] <apachelogger> e.g. if someone had #ifdef arch_arm; fancyfloatfunction(qreal); #else; fancydoublefunction(qreal); #endif
[21:24] <apachelogger> which would of course be somewhat moronic, and therefore very likely to be used somewhere :P
[21:49] <Quintasan> kubotu: topic learn
[21:49] <kubotu> okay
[21:49] <Quintasan> mmkay
[21:49] <Quintasan> Thanks apachelogger
[21:51] <Quintasan> apachelogger: When exactly is our BSP?
[21:51] <apachelogger> in november
[21:52] <ovidiu-florin> 22-24
[21:54] <Quintasan> Hmm, I do think I should ask for sponsorship
[21:56] <apachelogger> I wonder how much space there is actually xD
[21:58] <ovidiu-florin> apachelogger: 50 persons
[22:03] <ahoneybun> valorie, looks very promising
[22:03] <apachelogger> can do a party there
[22:03] <valorie> \o/
[22:05] <ahoneybun> valorie, http://ubuntuguide.org/wiki/Kubuntu:Saucy#Dual-Booting_Windows_and_Kubuntu
[22:06] <ahoneybun> pretty nice info
[22:06] <valorie> oh good, they offer wubi though
[22:07] <valorie> I mean, oh god
[22:07] <valorie> not good
[22:07] <ahoneybun> it is a wiki we could change it
[22:08] <valorie> sure
[22:08] <valorie> let's think about this, and how we can use this, and cooperate with them
[22:09] <valorie> I have a few other things on my plate this week, but I'll try to cruise around that wiki and check it out
[22:09] <ahoneybun> of course
[22:10] <apachelogger> wuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuubi
[22:10] <apachelogger> doesn't exist no moar I am reasonable certain
[22:10]  * ahoneybun wonders about how to get in touch with them
[22:10] <apachelogger> it got axed with a huge ass axe
[22:11] <valorie> there are links at the bottom or in About
[22:11]  * ahoneybun sees that wubi is still in the kubuntu iso
[22:11] <valorie> !
[22:12] <apachelogger> oh la la
[22:12]  * apachelogger duckduckwalks the wubi
[22:12] <valorie> perhaps we needed a boning knife, instead of an axe
[22:14] <apachelogger> "Windows installer is not compatible with Windows 8 or UEFI firmware, and is not available for Ubuntu 13.10."
[22:14] <apachelogger> very interesting
[22:14] <ahoneybun> it is in the kubuntu 13.10 iso
[22:16] <ahoneybun> valorie, http://www.kubuntuguide.info/
[22:17] <valorie> yikes
[22:17] <valorie> very spammy
[22:28] <ahoneybun> emailed
[22:29] <valorie> you rock
[22:38] <ahoneybun> we also need to update this https://launchpad.net/kubuntu-docs
[22:40] <valorie> of course
[22:40] <valorie> that's where are mini-docs will go, right?
[22:40]  * valorie intrudes on the devel list discussion
[22:41] <ovidiu-florin> http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/kubuntu-salamander.html
[22:41] <ovidiu-florin> "It did not offer any regional languages or keyboards, " [durring installation]
[22:46] <ovidiu-florin> "in the Ubuntu family range, Kubuntu is the only one that refuses to give you the most awesome and popular gaming platform. How rude."
[22:49] <ahoneybun> ovidiu-florin, how is the translations going?
[22:49] <apachelogger> "It did not offer any regional languages or keyboards, " <- lol
[22:50] <apachelogger> I have installed saucy probably 30 times since september and it always had that xD
[22:50] <ahoneybun> valorie, yea but we need to update it to show where our work is being done wiki wise
[22:50] <ovidiu-florin> apachelogger: same here
[22:51] <ovidiu-florin> ahoneybun: I've been swamped these days, so not verry fast with the translations.
[22:51] <ovidiu-florin> I was thinking to leave some of that for the BSP
[22:51] <ahoneybun> ovidiu-florin, ok no problem
[22:51] <ahoneybun> the trip
[22:51] <ahoneybun> ?
[22:51] <ovidiu-florin> ahoneybun: should I finish them faster?
[22:51] <ovidiu-florin> yes
[22:52] <ahoneybun> ovidiu-florin, not rushing you just asking
[22:53] <ovidiu-florin> my parents are building a new howse and I had to help my dad today, all day
[22:53] <ovidiu-florin> I'm exausted
[22:54] <ahoneybun> ovidiu-florin, oh wow
[22:55]  * valorie gives ovidiu-florin a cup of nice hot tea
[22:55] <ovidiu-florin> thanks valorie
[22:56] <valorie> good on ya for helping out your parents
[22:57]  * ahoneybun wants to kinda work on those pages that need refreshing in the mean time
[22:57] <ovidiu-florin> the are there is verry low, ad proned to floding, so we had to get more dirt to raise the level
[22:57] <ahoneybun> hope you have a blast on that trip btw ovidiu-florin
[22:57] <ovidiu-florin> and it's a big place to level
[22:57] <ovidiu-florin> ahoneybun: thanks
[22:58] <ovidiu-florin> is it allright if I'll focus on that install doc, then?
[22:58] <ovidiu-florin> or should that be done faster?
[22:58] <ovidiu-florin> come to think of it, it should have been done before the release...
[22:59] <ovidiu-florin> so... I should do it ASAP
[23:00] <valorie> the install doc doesn't have much to translate
[23:00] <valorie> most of it isn't written yet
[23:00] <ahoneybun> valorie, he is moving his blog post about installation from his language to english for that part
[23:01] <valorie> oh cool
[23:01] <valorie> that would be awesome
[23:03] <ahoneybun> valorie, then I add moinmoin on top of it
[23:03] <ahoneybun> there will be 3 main topics
[23:03] <ahoneybun> full install all in one partition, one / and one /home partitions, and dual booting
[23:04] <ovidiu-florin> ahoneybun: it's not my blogpost
[23:04] <ovidiu-florin> it's a contributors
[23:04] <ahoneybun> ovidiu-florin, right sorry


[11:58] <ganime> Hello
[11:58] <ganime> I hope this is the right place for a quick question?
[12:00] <ganime> Where can I find an Ubuntu community in my area? Could someone possibly send me a link or something?
[12:00] <ganime> Thank you
[12:06] <howefield> hi ganime, probably not the right place but you could start here.. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeams
[12:08] <elfy> they left ...
[12:09] <howefield> ah well,
[12:10] <howefield> switched off joins/parts ect ect
[12:14] <elfy> :)
[20:01] <caboose885> o/
[20:01] <s-fox> o/
[20:01] <howefield> hello caboose885
[20:01] <elfy> o/
[20:02] <howefield> and all :)
[20:02] <coffeecat> o/
[20:02] <s-fox> Who wants to chair the meeting? My job?
[20:02] <cariboo907> o/
[20:02] <elfy> your job
[20:02] <s-fox> lol
[20:02] <caboose885> its got your name on it s-fox :)
[20:03] <s-fox> Alright...
[20:03] <s-fox> #startmeeting Ubuntu Forums Council Meeting
[20:03] <meetingology> Meeting started Sun Mar  2 20:03:47 2014 UTC.  The chair is s-fox. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[20:03] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[20:04] <s-fox> #voters s-fox elfy cariboo907 coffeecat elfy howefield
[20:04] <meetingology> Current voters: cariboo907 coffeecat elfy howefield s-fox
[20:04] <Iowan> o/
[20:04] <s-fox> #voters Iowan
[20:04] <meetingology> Current voters: Iowan cariboo907 coffeecat elfy howefield s-fox
[20:04] <s-fox> :D
[20:04] <s-fox> sorry Iowan
[20:04] <Iowan> That happens when I sit in the back...
[20:05] <elfy> happens when I sit in the front ...
[20:05] <s-fox> Right, we currently have an empty agenda so i guess just a bit of feedback really.  But before that i wanted to know if anyone here has anything they want to bring up
[20:05] <elfy> agenda isn't empty
[20:05] <elfy> it's got caboose885 on it ...
[20:05] <howefield> hmm
[20:06] <s-fox> That is old?
[20:06] <Iowan> "last" meeting...
[20:06] <caboose885> I missed the last one...so elfy told me to roll it over to this one
[20:06] <s-fox> Ah, okay :)
[20:06] <elfy> no that is left from the last meeting(s) when there won't enough of us here
[20:06] <s-fox> caboose885,  go for it
[20:06] <s-fox> #topic
[20:06] <s-fox> Followup report to the UA team revision
[20:07] <caboose885> Well, I have been working on the UA team. Currently I have 9 active members. I actually have a few more people that are eager to join but they don't meet the requirements yet
[20:07] <caboose885> Hopefully in the next couple months we can bring them on
[20:08] <Iowan> What are membership requirements?
[20:08] <caboose885> 6 months active on the forums
[20:08] <s-fox> I was just wondering how you are going about getting in contact with people, or are they coming to you?
[20:08] <caboose885> At first I was reaching out to people but lately I've had a couple come to me
[20:09] <elfy> good
[20:09] <caboose885> I'm not sure if its members spreading the word or how they are learning about the team
[20:09] <caboose885> I never really asked them how they heard about the team
[20:09] <elfy> it might be worth doing that
[20:10] <caboose885> I will make sure to ask next time
[20:10] <caboose885> So, the team is slowly getting started. Still need more members but at least we have a small team working on reducing unanswered posts left on the forums
[20:11] <elfy> caboose885: nothing to stop you asking those you've got :)
[20:11] <s-fox> That sounds great caboose885 ,  I know it can be hard getting movement :)
[20:11] <caboose885> I think I estimated the team a bit too small. I think I will need more than 15 members but i will take what I can get
[20:11] <s-fox> agreed elfy
[20:11] <elfy> caboose885: yep - though I'd say it's best to start with a compact team
[20:12] <caboose885> agreed, with growing pains and figuring a  good system out and all
[20:12] <caboose885> that is all from me unless you guys have more to ask
[20:12] <s-fox> Okay, anything else you want to add caboose885 , or can we move on? (not that i am trying to change topic)
[20:12] <elfy> caboose885: thanks for the time you're putting in to it
[20:13] <s-fox> Nothing more from me except i am glad it is slowly coming together and a big thank you
[20:13] <s-fox> :)
[20:13] <caboose885> you can move on s-fox. I am done :)
[20:13] <caboose885> Thanks for everyones help and support
[20:13] <howefield> thanks caboose885
[20:13] <s-fox> Okay moving on...
[20:14] <s-fox> #topic Moderator Nominations
[20:14] <s-fox> We have been trying quite hard to become more democratic with the way in which moderators (and admins) will be chosen on the forums
[20:15] <s-fox> It has been difficult to find a way to implement, but we getting there.
[20:15] <s-fox> We have recently come up with this outline: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumCouncil/TeamNomination
[20:16] <s-fox> It is still a work in progress that needs the Community Council to agree on (we have 3/7 officially at this time)
[20:16] <s-fox> I guess we are looking for general feedback from an outsiders point of view, as well as just letting you know what is coming
[20:17] <s-fox> I think that is about it, unless any of the other FC members have anything to add.
[20:17] <elfy> not to that
[20:17] <Iowan> nothing here
[20:17] <s-fox> Also big thank you to those that drafted it and did the organisation on launchpad , and going over the vote script :)
[20:17] <cariboo907> you've summed it up pretty good s-fox
[20:17] <elfy> that's still needing some work
[20:17] <elfy> but we've time
[20:18] <howefield> how do we want general feedback, a thread in the forums ?
[20:18] <s-fox> By nature we are forum based, so i think that would be a good idea
[20:18] <elfy> howefield: I've posted one - will post a general forum thread later
[20:19] <s-fox> Thank you elfy :)
[20:19] <howefield> thanks
[20:19] <elfy> let's get feedback from those affected first
[20:19] <s-fox> I want to be quick to add i am not expecting a flood of feedback *right now this instant*
[20:19] <elfy> it can go in the general forum once we're sure of what we are going to do - rather than draft
[20:19] <s-fox> Agreed elfy , i wish to wait until we have a majority from the CC
[20:20] <elfy> I'm not sure that the moderator nomination is of concern
[20:21] <elfy> ok - think move onto fixed items now
[20:21] <s-fox> I wouldn't want to guess the concerns of others. ;)
[20:21]  * elfy neither
[20:21] <s-fox> Okay,   but before that does anyone have anything that they want to bring up that isn't on the agenda for whatever reason :)
[20:22] <elfy> other than it has been the province of the FC up till now
[20:22] <s-fox> I guess nobody has anything.
[20:22] <s-fox> Next topic
[20:22] <elfy> s-fox: that's what we put AOB on the agenda for I thought :)
[20:22] <s-fox> #topic Division of labour
[20:23] <s-fox> Alright, who wants to do what?
[20:23] <cariboo907> who did what last time? :)
[20:23] <elfy> sef does
[20:23] <s-fox> very funny :)
[20:23] <elfy> not sure what there is on the list anymore tbh - some are long gone now
[20:24] <howefield> I'm not fussy, what does nobody like doing :)
[20:24] <Iowan> I *think* I did the report lasttime.
[20:24] <s-fox> Okay, well there is the team report
[20:24] <s-fox> i think i fixed it the other month, but that might have been elfy
[20:24] <Iowan> Then there's the ML
[20:24] <s-fox> hmm
[20:24] <elfy> team report should be done regardless of there being a meeting
[20:24] <s-fox> elfy,  +1
[20:25] <elfy> Iowan: ML is whoever sees it first and approves the post
[20:25] <s-fox> I think the ml is being looked after generally by a few people though
[20:25] <Iowan> Similar to Res centre...
[20:25] <s-fox> to me that is a good thing
[20:25] <elfy> we changed that at the same time as sending replies to the join notice to dev/null
[20:25] <s-fox> i only think we had it that way to ensure someone looks at it. i think we are better than we used to be
[20:26] <s-fox> i don't mind doing the report
[20:26] <elfy> I think the only thing that needs to be rotated is the report
[20:26] <Iowan> No new members to add :(
[20:26] <s-fox> i haven't done the report for a while, i'll do it tomorrow at some point
[20:26] <elfy> Iowan: not at present - though we actually do those when they get majority
[20:27] <elfy> shouldn't be on Agenda
[20:27] <s-fox> oh, does anyone know when the next announcement bot post is due?
[20:27] <s-fox> that needs checking
[20:27] <s-fox> hopefully it is fixed :)
[20:27] <elfy> no - but I'm subscribed to a couple of -announce m/l's
[20:27] <s-fox> pity we can't fake an announcement to test it
[20:28] <s-fox> or can we?
[20:28] <elfy> no
[20:28] <s-fox> shame
[20:28] <elfy> IS are waiting for one to appear same as us :)
[20:29] <s-fox> Oh yes, while i remember. Thank you to IS for sorting out those tickets i created last week :)
[20:29] <elfy> so all in agreement - QIII can do that?
[20:29] <s-fox> yes
[20:29] <s-fox> agreed
[20:29] <howefield> approved
[20:29] <Iowan> +1
[20:29] <s-fox> +!
[20:29] <coffeecat> +1
[20:30] <elfy> ok - seems like a wrap then
[20:30] <QIII> can we review what the payment rate is for that?
[20:30] <elfy> same as previous
[20:30] <s-fox> Also, thank you to you all for being active in the running of the forums. to me it feels we are much more organised / active than we have been for a long time :)
[20:30] <Irihapeti> I don't do anything much...
[20:30]  * s-fox fires Irihapeti
[20:30] <howefield> thanks s-fox et all, and good night :)
[20:30] <Irihapeti> TY
[20:30] <s-fox> :D
[20:31] <s-fox> good night howefield
[20:31] <s-fox> i think that is it
[20:31] <s-fox> #endmeeting
[20:31] <meetingology> Meeting ended Sun Mar  2 20:31:29 2014 UTC.
[20:31] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-03-02-20.03.moin.txt
[20:31] <Iowan> pull the plug and let's go home
[20:31] <s-fox> Thank you for all coming
[20:31] <QIII> dang
[20:31] <Iowan> (slow again)
[20:31] <s-fox> i already did and am
[20:31] <caboose885> night everyone!
[20:31] <s-fox> Goodnight!
[20:31] <elfy> ok - thanks
[20:31] <cariboo907> Goodnight all


[00:12] <DarwinSurvivor> willwh: you mentioned reinstalling without encryption and screen issues going away. Was home-encryption causing video card problems?
[00:12] <DarwinSurvivor> I've been trying to track down some nasty video driver issues myself and am using encryption. If they are related I would love to know more
[00:13] <willwh> I don't know - was my headless server :)
[01:52] <khoover> anyone here know much about the android sdk?
[01:52] <khoover> or limitations of the OS, in general.
[03:09] <DarwinSurvivor> willwh: oh, did you man "gnu"screen issues?
[03:11] <DarwinSurvivor> khoover: I've heard the emulator is encredibly resource intensive (quadcores-drop-to-their-knees intensive)
[03:11] <willwh> huh?
[03:11] <DarwinSurvivor> < willwh> good bye silly screen issues :P
[03:11] <willwh> s/man/mean?
[03:12] <DarwinSurvivor> oh, yeah, my bad :P
[03:12] <willwh> uh,possibly
[03:12] <willwh> yes
[03:12] <willwh> err, yes I did.
[03:19] <DarwinSurvivor> lol, ok
[13:16] <BluesKaj> Hi folks


[04:54] <pinoyskull> mga tolits
[05:06] <Terminus> pinoyskull: afternoon. =)
[05:07] <pinoyskull> Terminus, afternun din
[05:07] <pinoyskull> Terminus, have you experienced this error when SSH'ing to a Debian VM?
[05:07] <pinoyskull> PTY allocation request failed on channel 0
[05:07] <pinoyskull> Connection to <IP_ADDRESS> closed.
[05:07] <Terminus> was forced to upgrade my video card over the weekend. pcx couldn't replace the defective unit i returned.
[05:08] <Terminus> pinoyskull: nope. i can ssh to squeeze running on esxi here just fine.
[05:08] <pinoyskull> ok thanks
[05:09] <Terminus> pinoyskull: that error looks weird. i've never encountered something like that on linux, ever.
[05:09] <pinoyskull> yeah, first time for me too
[05:10] <pinoyskull> there are solutions on google
[05:10] <pinoyskull> but it seem not working on my VM
[05:11] <Terminus> just curious, what kind of solutions? any of them pointing at getty?
[05:50] <zakame> lol
[06:21] <Terminus> heya zakame
[06:22] <Terminus> i has overpowered GPU. gtx 570 on an athlon x2 5000.
[06:27] <jsgotangco> squeeee
[06:30] <Terminus> hello jsgotangco =)
[06:30] <jsgotangco> halu!
[06:30] <Terminus> jsgotangco: still outside the country?
[06:30] <jsgotangco> no im back in manila
[06:30] <jsgotangco> baka next month pa
[06:31] <Terminus> jsgotangco: hehe. can't tell anymore when you're in or out of the country.
[06:31] <jsgotangco> yep
[06:33] <Terminus> bugger. looks like webdav + gitweb is the best way to configure a git server.
[06:34] <jsgotangco> anyone know where you could buy those fancy huawei mifi unlocked?
[06:34] <Terminus> hmmm... i saw something like that two weekends ago. CuriousCat might know.
[06:35] <Terminus> anyhow, time for a reboot. i really should increase the ram on this thing. eating up way too much swap.
[10:05] <ramseize> weebee everyone
[13:15] <student> wee
[17:23] <bhearsum> yeah
[17:23] <bhearsum> oops
[17:30] <ramseize> lol


[04:30] <ball> hello redbaritone
[04:30] <redbaritone> Hi there, ball. Know LTSP stuff?
[04:32] <ball> redbaritone: Not yet.
[04:32] <redbaritone> I'm having trouble after removing a package. Now, I can't even log into my account in gnome. (terminal login is okay.)
[04:33] <redbaritone> It may not be LTSP related, but I removed a package which broke something.
[04:33] <ball> Can you reinstall the package from the command line?
[04:34] <ball> "sudo apt-get install {packagename}"?
[04:35] <redbaritone> I'm not sure what I messed up. I did sudo apt-get remove wine*, and I think it must have removed something that I was using.
[04:36] <redbaritone> Wine wasn't working out for me, so I ran the wine utility to remove itself, then removed the packages.
[04:36] <redbaritone> Other than look at /var/log/syslog, I don't even know where to look.
[04:57]  * ball shrugs
[13:30] <emPrJoe> Anyone around yet thismorning?
[13:43] <emPrJoe> I have an older computer that didn't quite make having a cd drive, is there a place they have edubuntu cds?
[13:43] <emPrJoe> All I can find are DVDs
[13:49] <alkisg> emPrJoe: you can either use the ubuntu cd, and then install edubuntu-desktop,
[13:49] <alkisg> or use a usb stick,
[13:49] <alkisg> or install from network, using another computer that boots with the edubuntu cd, if you have another pc available
[13:49] <emPrJoe> yeah I have 2 pcs
[13:49] <emPrJoe> so I would have to have edubuntu on the computer for it to work?
[13:50] <alkisg> No
[13:50] <alkisg> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveCDNetboot#line-75
[13:50] <alkisg> You boot the first computer with the live dvd, and then run a script which shares it over the network,
[13:50] <emPrJoe> so is that to install edubuntu or just ubuntu
[13:50] <alkisg> so the other one installs from network
[13:50] <alkisg> That's for any *buntu cd
[13:51] <emPrJoe> so what do I need to do on my old computer
[13:51] <alkisg> Does it support "boot from network"?
[13:51] <emPrJoe> How can you tell?
[13:51] <alkisg> If not, just download a floppy or cd from http://rom-o-matic.net/gpxe/gpxe-1.0.0/contrib/rom-o-matic/
[13:51] <alkisg> That just gives a "boot from network" capability to the pc, you only need it once
[13:52] <emPrJoe> ok
[13:52] <emPrJoe> So I download that cd.
[13:52] <emPrJoe> would it be possible to do it using a virtualbox?
[13:52] <alkisg> Yes
[13:53] <emPrJoe> ok
[13:53] <emPrJoe> So mount the edubuntu dvd image
[13:53] <emPrJoe> and boot from network usnig rom-o-madic
[13:53] <emPrJoe> correct?
[13:53] <alkisg> Mount edubuntu dvd an run the netboot script on pc-server, then boot from network using rom-o-matic on pc-client
[13:53] <emPrJoe> ok.
[13:54] <alkisg> Is that vbox on windows?
[13:54] <emPrJoe> Yeah
[13:54] <alkisg> I hope that it's allowed to access ports < 1024
[13:54] <alkisg> (put it in bridged mode)
[13:54] <emPrJoe> yeah
[13:54] <alkisg> If you see any problems with the client not booting, just boot from the dvd live
[13:55] <emPrJoe> it doesn't have a dvd drive though.
[13:55] <alkisg> *the server, without vbox i mean
[13:55] <alkisg> Ah, not even the "server"?
[13:55] <emPrJoe> I do have a ubuntu cd if all else fails
[13:55] <emPrJoe> oh
[13:55] <emPrJoe> the server has a dvd drive
[13:55] <alkisg> Right, instead of vbox, the "normal" way is to boot it with the edubuntu live dvd
[13:55] <alkisg> Much easier and safer this way
[13:55] <emPrJoe> one last question atm, what are the sys req of edubuntu
[13:56] <alkisg> I think you can find them on the site (they're the same as ubuntu)
[13:56] <emPrJoe> oh thanks
[13:56] <alkisg> I guess 256+ RAM. How much ram does your client have?
[13:56] <alkisg> (Probably 512+ recommented)
[13:58] <emPrJoe> lol I need to upgrade it atm only 128 mb <_<
[13:58] <emPrJoe> *put everyone in shock*'
[14:00] <emPrJoe> thats why I was wondering if an old version would work
[14:11] <emPrJoe> alkisg: how mch ram did 9.10 take
[14:11] <alkisg> emPrJoe: with 128 you make a nice thin client
[14:12] <emPrJoe> nice thin client?
[14:12] <alkisg> I.e. you can make it work just fine but when your "server" is also powered on
[14:12] <emPrJoe> so if I shut my "server" off its going to kill the computer?
[14:12] <alkisg> (in other words you can tell the old pc to use the cpu of the new pc)
[14:12] <alkisg> Yes
[14:13] <emPrJoe> lol
[14:13] <alkisg> It's handy in some cases, I don't know if it suits you
[14:13] <emPrJoe> yeah me either
[14:13] <emPrJoe> One last thing
[14:13] <alkisg> E.g. in schools we have 12 old thin clients booting from 1 new server
[14:13] <alkisg> With 128, try lubuntu
[14:13] <emPrJoe> like 8.10 or 8.04 did they use anything like 128
[14:14] <alkisg> Not really
[14:14] <emPrJoe> I know dapperdrake did
[14:14] <emPrJoe> so dapperdrake would be the last version that would run non thinclient
[14:14] <alkisg> Even if you make them show a gnome session, you won't be able to open openoffice, firefox etc
[14:14] <alkisg> Firefox needs about 512 MB for itself for a normal browsing experience
[14:14] <emPrJoe> yeah
[14:14] <emPrJoe> true
[23:04] <Utrinqueparatus> Is there anyone actively developing new educational content for ubuntu?
[23:04] <Utrinqueparatus> specifically preschool


 March 11 is code camp?
 The week after the walk, nice
 Registered, lol
 Going to help man the booth @Ivoriesablaze ?
 um... yeah... sure... i totally wasn't going to take all the free stuff and run...
 @ahoneybun I will help out, let me know your schedule/plan and I'll come down too
 Oh, yeah and I have to donate and sign up for the walk as well
 Busy two weeks 😊
 \o/
 @Ivoriesablaze no big deal xD
 Friday, best day. All the parking available! :)
 Got a link to the walk?
 http://act.autismspeaks.org/site/TR?team_id=53866&fr_id=2791&pg=team
 Who changed the goal?
 It was needed
 Not sure about that
 I disagree
 you think we can reach that?
 @KMyers also did you get the google wallet?
 I have no doubts. Not to mention if people see we are nearing our goal, they may not be as open to donating
 @ahoneybun, Yes
 Good
 @ahoneybun, I am available. If you need help.
 I was kidding guys, I'm helping
 Though there might be a few talks I want to attend
 I know @Ivoriesablaze
 *we


[14:42] <Odd_Bloke> smoser: https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/536 <-- the Oracle comment update I mentioned previously
[16:44] <minimal> Hi folks. Anyone able to give some advice about test_handler dealing with testcases where a cloudinit module writes to a specific file (rather than passed as a parameter) and where the testcase also needs to load the file afterwards to check expected contents? My original method of letting the test_handler create the directory required ("/etc/apk/") for the tests failed with a permission error.
[17:07] <rharper> minimal: there are a few unittests whic huse the FilesystemMocking class
[17:08] <rharper> minimal: I think the ntp handler test-case that writes out template files ..
[17:08] <rharper> minimal: also the reRoot() should let you write files and read them back in via the temp path
[17:30] <minimal> rharper: Hi. Not looking to mock the write but rather to override the filename used for write by the module and also used for loadfile by the test handler.
[17:31] <minimal> rharper: I had a look at many of the test_handlers but still haven't figured things out yet.
[17:34] <minimal> Tried using mkstemp in the setUp function of the class to create a file and then in the testcase function tried using "cc_apk_configure._write_repositories_file.repo_file = self.tmp" to override the filename defined by the repo_file string in the module
[17:39] <rharper> minimal: right, so reRoot() from one of the unittest classes, I'll look up; will change root into a tmp path, so you won't need to change your repo file, and it'll write to tmp_path as if it were root
[17:42] <rharper> minimal: so, if you use FilesystemMockingTestCase, and then use reRoot(); that should be enough;  minimal also, I think if you look at tests/unittests/test_handler/test_handler_ntp.py:TestNtp(); I think that should do what you want
[17:50] <minimal> rharper: Thanks I'll take a look at that. Unrelated - who's the best person to talk to about the NTP module? I've added Busybox NTP support but several of the NTP testcases are failing as they assume full NTP functionality rather than Busybox's limited support.
[17:59] <rharper> minimal: I'm familiar with them
[18:00] <rharper> minimal: is this related to the pools vs servers bit you mentioned in the PR ?
[18:01] <minimal> The only thing in a ntp.conf file that Busybox's ntp can handle is a "server" line. Also I believe it can't handle "iburst" as part of a server line, so that various testcases that expect "pool" lines and "server" lines with "iburst" will not work for it.
[18:02] <minimal> I'd added Busybox NTP support as its lightweight and Alpine's a lightweight distro. Wondering whether I should have just stuck with only Chrony
[18:04] <rharper> minimal: did you provide a template for it?    I forget
[18:04] <minimal> yes, again with only server lines
[18:05] <rharper> I see, so when the alpine template is used, the test-cases themselves expect more things present
[18:05] <rharper> I wonder if the templates need more logic
[18:06] <minimal> yes - the NTP testcases loop through through each of the supported software (i.e. ntp, chrony, etc) and for each then test each distro that supports that software
[18:06] <minimal> so they expect a generated ntp.conf to loop basically the same for Debian, Ubuntu, etc, and Alpine - which is the problem
[18:07] <minimal> oops, loop == look
[18:07] <rharper> yeah
[18:08] <minimal> I could have used Openntp in Alpine for the ntp support but its "old code", from memory the last upstream release was 12-18 months ago, plus Openntp is of similar size to Chrony, whereas for a lightweight distro needing just a NTP client daemon the Busybox NTP seemed like a good candidate
[18:10] <rharper> so, I think we need two things; 1) when on alpine rendering the template, if the user-data includes unsupported keys (pools e.g.) then cloud-init should emit warnings in the logs;   2) the unittests can be adjusted to handle alpine separately ;  for example we could filter out alpine from the distro list in the module and then add new unittests just for alpine, providing supported user-data (servers) and unsupported
[18:10] <rharper> (servers/pools) and see that we log the warning
[18:12] <minimal> Yeah that's why when I realised the implications of Busybox ntp support I wondered who's be the person(s) to consider if it was worth it - I could always drop the (Busybox) "ntp" and just go with Chrony and that would resolve the cc_ntp testcase failures I'm seeing now.
[18:12] <rharper> minimal: I'm in favor of supporting both;
[18:18] <minimal> with the present code in my PR if you specify "pools" in the userdata it'll be ignored when the template is processed. However if you specify "pools" but don't specify "servers" then you'll not have any server entries in the resultant config file. If userdata doesn't specifiy either then the code will place default server lines in the config ok.
[18:19] <rharper> Yes; I think the implementation is fine, but when user-data is not processed as expected (but not fatal) I'm in favor of logging at least a warning;
[18:20] <rharper> this community goes back and forth between being resilient, not being overly noisy in logs (we're already really noisy) but indicating to users (via the log at least) that cloud-init encountered something it off the normal path
[18:21] <rharper> minimal: I think if we also in the docs for cc_ntp express that alpine ntp is busybox based and only supports servers (not pool) and indicates that it will enable default servers if no servers are present (and pools are ignored) that should be good enough;
[18:21] <rharper> even suggesting that if you want/need pools to consider chrony over ntp in your image
[18:25] <minimal> I'll have a look at the ntp testcases again to see how each it'd be to insert a "if distro != 'alpine':" clause for the ntp tests
[18:26] <minimal> Re: the other issue - using reRoot had given some partial progress, looks like the next step to fix is that I need to create the "/etc/apk" directory structure inside the new_root so that the module can actually create the file within it
[18:26] <rharper> minimal: yeah, you can util.ensure_dir(path)
[19:01] <minimal> rharper: Thanks for your help! - got the cc_apk_repositories test_handler passing all the tests now, just need to squash and push the commit.
[19:01] <minimal> rharper: I'll now have a look at tweaking the cc_ntp tests to treat Alpine + Busybox NTP as a special case
[19:09] <rharper> minimal: nice!


[13:45] <glade88> hello. can I find help related to ubuntu mailman (@lists.ubuntu.com) here?
[14:08] <jpds> glade88: Try asking<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[14:17] <glade88> jpds: thanks! will do
[14:41] <jpds> glade88: Replied.
[14:53] <glade88> jpds: kudos! That's everything I needed to know :)
[14:53] <jpds> Anytime.
[20:21] <boredandblogging> newz2000: will there be a jaunty countdown banner coming?
[20:28] <newz2000> boredandblogging: actually, I'll be announcing that to the list today!
[20:37] <boredandblogging> newz2000: ah, cool


[06:03] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-cpugraph-plugin 1.2.5 released @ http://www.mail-archive.com/xfce-announce@xfce.org/msg00629.html