[00:03] <solarcloud_3srcn> YMMV means "Your Mileage May Vary" , IANAL means "I Am Not A Lawyer (this is an uninformed opinion)" IDDQD means "Cheat code for Doom" , err OK . directhex, Your obviously not a bowler.
[00:45] <BigRedS> In answer to my earlier questiond, mdadm -D /dev/mdX has the state of each member at the bottom
[01:10] <solarcloud_3srcn> directhex: phoronix.com retorts ::  http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTI4MzE
[01:11] <solarcloud_3srcn> With over a dozen comments so far ::: http://phoronix.com/forums/showthread.php?77091-Valve-Pushes-Out-Half-Life-For-Linux#post308374
[01:26] <Azelphur> valve has originally ported their original half life original title original to linux original.
[01:44] <popey> Azelphur: and cs:source by the look of it
[01:44] <Azelphur> :o
[01:44] <Azelphur> this is a good day.
[01:44] <Azelphur> even though my boiler has apparently died and the house is getting cold, this is still a good day.
[01:44] <Azelphur> xD
[05:41] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: fire up half life.. have your GPU keep you warm ;)
[07:27] <knightwise> hey MartijnVdS
[07:27] <knightwise> you are up early
[08:00] <diplo> Morning
[08:08] <knightwise> hey directhex
[08:08] <knightwise> hey diplo
[08:28] <kvarley> Can anybody recommend a good RAW viewer? I don't want an editor or album manager, just a viewer like the default image viewer does for JPGs, etc in Ubuntu
[08:33] <MartijnVdS> kvarley: rawtherapee?
[08:34] <MartijnVdS> kvarley: or, if you set the default viewer to "Shotwell viewer" you just get the viewer part of shotwell
[08:34] <MartijnVdS> not the manager bits
[08:38] <kvarley> MartijnVdS: Ok ty
[08:39] <kvarley> Another question, is it possible to use VirtualBox to install Ubuntu on an actual hard drive? /dev/sdc for example? I have a netbook that is a problem and need some bootable OS to test it with
[08:39] <kvarley> Loading from USB on this model is being awkward
[08:45] <popey> being awkward how?
[08:46] <kvarley> popey: The system goes really slow after 5 mins last time I tried it
[08:46] <kvarley> I think the CPU may have overheated in the past
[08:47] <kvarley> It was a while ago tho so I need to try USB again really
[08:52] <AlanBell> morning all
[08:52] <TheOpenSourcerer> mornign all.
[08:52]  * TheOpenSourcerer has produced a screencast. Would like AlanBell to review it before going public...
[08:53] <popey> morning
[08:53] <popey> never seen that kvarley
[08:53] <TheOpenSourcerer> Thanks for the etherpad stuff popey that was useful.
[08:53] <popey> np
[08:59] <knightwise> hey popey TheOpenSourcerer
[08:59] <TheOpenSourcerer> wotcha knightwise
[08:59] <kvarley> popey: Checked  the HDD still works, that is fine. Reassembling the netbook then gonna try booting Ubuntu via a SATA CD drive
[09:00] <knightwise> Netbooks are cool :)
[09:01] <knightwise> did this weeks podcast on "bringing your netbook back to life'
[09:01] <kvarley> knightwise: Netbooks are dead lol
[09:02] <kvarley> knightwise: I just figure if I can make this one work I can give it to a relative
[09:02] <kvarley> Surprising amount of dust in this one considering it was so tightly sealed
[09:02] <knightwise> kvarley: i disagree http://knightwise.com/kw503-return-of-the-netbook/
[09:03] <knightwise> Been using one as my main 'portable thin client' for the last week.
[09:03] <knightwise> loving it so far!
[09:03] <einonm> I tried putting Ubuntu server 11.10 on my netbook last week - just hung there after I filled in all the forms at the start. So it's still on life support...
[09:05] <directhex> counter-strike 1.6 for linux too. fancy.
[09:06] <kvarley> directhex: Has that been added too? I'm really hoping for CS:GO
[09:09] <directhex> kvarley, half-added. requires badgers to run
[09:10] <kvarley> directhex: hehe ok
[09:10] <directhex> kvarley, http://www.reddit.com/r/linux_gaming/comments/178xsx/native_counterstrike_16_on_steam_for_linux/
[09:10] <kvarley> Taking this netbook has made me realise a few things. 1) Netbook ribbon cables are actually sensibly placed. 2) Netbooks shouldn't be opened. 3) Only 1 fan in the whole netbook for the GPU is stupid
[09:11] <kvarley> directhex: Thanks, I may have to try this out
[09:20] <popey> directhex: i don't have a beta tab in properties of CS:Source
[09:20] <directhex> popey, where did i say CS:Source?
[09:20] <popey> ignore me
[09:21] <kvarley> popey: It lives ... sort of
[09:21] <kvarley> I'm booting from live USB
[09:24] <kvarley> The netbook is held together with about 30 screws but none of them are actually needed. Everything snaps into place
[09:25] <popey> which netbook?
[09:25] <kvarley> Asus 1201N
[09:25] <popey> oh, thats similar to wifeys 1008HA
[09:26] <popey> I say "wifeys" she hasn't touched it in a year or more
[09:26] <kvarley> hehe
[09:26] <kvarley> I didn't miss this fan noise one bit
[09:26] <kvarley> Think this was one of the first to get nvidias ION tech in it
[10:04] <rowinggolfer> built a server yesterday. 2*1TB drives in raid 10 configuration. Followed the howto here. https://help.ubuntu.com/12.04/serverguide/advanced-installation.html
[10:04] <rowinggolfer> really, really good documentation :)
[10:05] <rowinggolfer> 5 year support was the differentiator for me.
[10:05] <rowinggolfer> ie.. there are still many things that canonical are doing right.
[10:06] <TheOpenSourcerer> Anyone got any experience with sakis3g?
[10:08] <rowinggolfer> never heard of it.. and I can't get to http://www.sakis3g.org/
[10:08] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[10:09] <rowinggolfer> morning brobostigon
[10:09] <brobostigon> morning rowinggolfer
[10:17] <directhex> rowinggolfer, 2 drives in raid10?
[10:22] <knightwise> got a little grub question here
[10:22] <knightwise> anyone in ?
[10:23] <dwatkins> no, they're all having a snowball fight
[10:23] <andylockran> morning
[10:23] <knightwise> morning
[10:23] <knightwise> i'm installing ubuntu on my macbook and doing the manual partitioning thing
[10:24] <knightwise> ive got an Ssd drive (sda)
[10:24] <knightwise> i just created a root partition and a home partition
[10:24] <directhex> dual-booting the macbook or not?
[10:24] <knightwise> it has placed them on SDa1 and SDA2
[10:24] <knightwise> Single booting
[10:24] <knightwise> no dual boot
[10:24] <knightwise> now it leaves 1 megabyte of free space on SDA
[10:24] <knightwise> (donno why)
[10:25] <knightwise> question is : Where do i install grub
[10:25] <knightwise> /dev/sda or /dev/sda1 ?
[10:25] <andylockran> knightwise: I used refit for mac
[10:25] <knightwise> yeah , but in order to install refit you need to install osx first
[10:25] <andylockran> and installed grub to the partition, rather than to the disk
[10:26] <andylockran> ah, ok
[10:26] <knightwise> ok, but can you install refit without osx ?
[10:26] <knightwise> because when I boot , I just get a blinkin cursor
[10:27] <knightwise> so i have the feeling the grub isnt doing anything or isnt even working.
[10:27] <knightwise> So do i install grub to /sda (which is one megabyte, empty space)
[10:27] <knightwise> or to /sda1 where i have my / partition ?
[10:27] <andylockran> sounds like you need to have a mini OSX partition on there
[10:28] <knightwise> smells like it.
[10:28] <knightwise> perhaps do a 10 gig osx install.. and then go with Refit ?
[10:29] <andylockran> yeah, I just read a recommendation of 10-15GB for the OSX partition
[10:29] <andylockran> as youll need it for firmware updates to the macbook too
[10:29] <knightwise> yeah , i thought about that too
[10:30] <knightwise> its that , i only have a 128 ssd
[10:30] <knightwise> so i would like to keep the osx footprint to a minimum
[10:30] <andylockran> https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=925992
[10:30] <directhex> at this point i'm super concerned about your setup
[10:30] <davmor2> Morning all
[10:31] <directhex> macs don't use BIOS booting, they expect a GPT-partitioned disk with an EFI boot partition
[10:31] <knightwise> holdon
[10:31] <directhex> whether you also have a shadow MBR table as well is a secondary issue
[10:31] <knightwise> installer is telling me i should install a 35 meg efi boot partition first ! :)
[10:32] <andylockran> I have read that grub2 were working on a open source 'bless' for EFI
[10:32] <knightwise> so i think i have to put the bootloader in there
[10:32] <knightwise> ok , giving it a whirl
[10:33] <knightwise> the workaround i have is that i use an osx installer disk to do the firmware updates :)
[10:35] <andylockran> that'd work
[10:42] <rowinggolfer> directhex, yes.
[10:43] <rowinggolfer> directhex, it appears counter intuitive, but raid10 < raid 5
[10:43] <knightwise> directhex: super concerned ?  about me ?
[10:44] <knightwise> hmmm
[10:45] <knightwise> there is a shadow table there somewhere
[10:45] <knightwise> now the mac says it cannot find a bootable os
[10:45] <directhex> rowinggolfer, raid10 needs 4 disks.
[10:53] <knightwise> ok , going the other route
[10:53] <knightwise> installing a 20 gig OSX partition and using Refit
[10:59] <rowinggolfer> directhex, that's a common configuration, but 2 disks is the minimum.
[10:59] <directhex> that doesn't make any sense
[11:00] <directhex> raid 0 is striping data across 2 or more disks. raid 1 is mirroring data across 2 or more disks. unless you're doing partition-level mirroring or striping which is, well, stupid since it'll decrease performance not increase it
[11:01] <rowinggolfer> I'm not looking for performance.
[11:01] <rowinggolfer> but redundancy.
[11:02] <shauno> then why add striping?
[11:23] <timp2> Hi, I am trying to install amd ubuntu 12.10 from external usb CD drive, it semed to be working, but screen went blank, now I have just had the little drum roll, but completely blank screen
[11:23] <timp2> Ctrl Alt F1 does nothing
[11:23] <timp2> Sorry, on an 18month old macbookPro
[11:24] <directhex> rowinggolfer, then what on earth does using partition-level raid 0 gain you, other than complexity and another layer of potential failure?
[11:24] <knightwise> hey timp
[11:24] <knightwise> did you use refit ?
[11:24] <timp2> hi knightwise
[11:24] <timp2> efi ?
[11:25] <knightwise> are you singlebooting  or dual booting ?
[11:25] <rowinggolfer> directhex, to be honest, I dunno. I'll need to revisit this.
[11:25] <timp2> dual booting,
[11:25] <knightwise> have you installed REFIT on your OSX os
[11:25] <knightwise> that will help you to dual boot
[11:26] <timp2> yes, I think so,
[11:26] <knightwise> did you take a look at the howto i sent you yesterday ?
[11:26] <knightwise> http://maketecheasier.com/install-ubuntu-12-10-in-macbook-air/2012/11/08
[11:26] <timp2> yes, and that was pretty much what I did originally
[11:27] <knightwise> ok
[11:27] <knightwise> ubuntu try this
[11:27] <timp2> though I am trying from a usb DVD
[11:27] <knightwise> its an old hawto but it has to do with your grub settyings
[11:28] <knightwise> wait , have you installed it yet ? or just trying to boot from the livce cd  ?
[11:28] <timp2> I suspect it is the video firmware, possibly due to it having been updatd.
[11:28] <knightwise>  seems that something in the Macbook power management causes a kernel panic, so you’ll need to run the installer with the “noapic” option (press space at the splash screen, then F6). Note: you may need to reboot several times, as the installer may kernel panic before you have the option to set “noapic”. Also, note that the wifi won’t work (we’ll fix this in the next step), so don’t try to install updates during the inst
[11:28] <knightwise> Once the installation finishes, you’ll need to boot up with the noapic option (press ‘e’ in GRUB and add it to the kernel parameters, right next to “splash” and “quiet”), and then add it permanently once you’ve booted up. You can find detailed directions for both of these steps in the Ubuntu guide for Kernel Boot Parameters
[11:29] <knightwise> See step 4 of this manual : http://cberner.com/2012/07/10/installing-ubuntu-12-04-on-macbook-pro-retina/
[11:30] <timp2> knightwise: thanks, looks like I need to blockout a bit more time than I have this minute, but thanks, I will read those and start again when I get back
[11:31] <knightwise> no worries , good lucj !
[11:38] <kvarley> I just ran updates and my xorg conf got wiped because I have manually installed AMD graphics drivers. Will restoring the xorg conf work or will I also have to add the kernel modules again? I'm not sure if my kernel got updated or not
[11:38] <diplo> TheOpenSourcerer: Nice vid :)
[11:38] <TheOpenSourcerer> thanks diplo
[11:39] <TheOpenSourcerer> For others if they are interested: Gelocation for vtiger CRM - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1FxiADQpsU
[11:39] <diplo> May have to integrate something like that for our erp system now :)
[11:39] <TheOpenSourcerer> What's your ERP?
[11:40] <diplo> Called chalice, we're re-writing our text based one to web based
[11:40] <popey> "standing on the shoulders of others... and all that" :D
[11:40] <TheOpenSourcerer> :-D
[11:40] <TheOpenSourcerer> Yeah - got that a b it wrong but couldn't be bothered to go back
[11:40] <diplo> Trying to make it stand out from the text/console one by adding features that we can't do in the old one
[11:43] <directhex> rowinggolfer, if you're using RAID0 across partitions on the same drive, i.e. sda1 and sda2 are raid0'd, sdb1 and sdb2 are raid0'd, and md0 and md1 are raid1'd, then you'll actually gain less than nothing - you'll decrease performance compared to just using flat raid1, as all sequential disk reads/writes larger than the raid0 stripe size are no longer sequential, they're random (as the disk needs to bounce between stripes on both partition
[11:43] <directhex> s)
[11:47]  * popey hugs btrfs RAID1
[11:47]  * popey dreams of btrfs RAID5
[11:47]  * brobostigon checks to make sure the stats are working properly.
[11:48]  * davmor2 checks popey 's meds, you should be tripping the the light fantastic not dreaming sysadmin dreams.......
[11:49] <brobostigon> yep, looks good, :)
[11:56] <brobostigon> oh dear, are the bbc going to trash daily politics for the tennis now.
[11:57] <directhex> anyone have a use for 2 months of lovefilm?
[11:58] <brobostigon> lovefilm, umm, never tried it.
[11:59] <dwatkins> I use it, it's not too bad.
[12:02] <kvarley> dwatkins: Lame that there is no android client tho
[12:02] <kvarley> Being silverlight and all
[12:02] <Azelphur> hmm, think my boiler has bit the dust, :(
[12:02] <Azelphur> it fails to turn on and makes a high pitched whistling sound
[12:04] <directhex> i've got a few 2-month-free new customer discount codes
[12:11] <rowinggolfer> directhex, I follow your logic. thanks.
[12:12] <rowinggolfer> directhex, my choice was swayed by http://www.acronis.co.uk/resource/tips-tricks/2005/whats-raid-10.html
[12:14] <rowinggolfer> biab - gonna get some lunch. need a good one today as haggis for dinner ;)
[12:31] <constrictor> how do i find out what graphics card I'm running from the command line
[12:32] <daftykins> lspci
[12:35] <directhex> lspci | grep VGA
[12:36] <constrictor> thanks daftykins
[12:39] <daftykins> just had two synology NAS' turn up along with 4 x 2TB WD Reds :)
[12:40] <directhex> daftykins, for RAID10? :p
[12:41] <daftykins> lol no
[12:42] <daftykins> two separate two bay units
[12:42] <daftykins> amusingly these are backups for RAIDs
[12:43] <daftykins> just had to phone verified by visa due to a rejection ordering something from a website
[12:44] <daftykins> 'we haven't got enough trained advisors right now, we can give you a call back in 30 mins'
[12:44] <daftykins> nice
[13:20] <daftykins> heh these little Synology NAS' are cute :>
[13:23] <dwatkins> daftykins: agreed, I'm considering getting a DS413j
[13:24] <dwatkins> the interface is pretty good, it seems to run a linux, and they're not too pricey
[13:24] <dwatkins> also, loads of plug 'n play applications for them
[13:24] <daftykins> :)
[13:25] <daftykins> got a couple of the super basic 212j's for some clients backup
[13:25] <daftykins> just fitted the drives, powered on and installed the OS over the network
[13:27] <daftykins> very neat web UI
[13:30] <daftykins> and off it goes creating the RAID1 setup :>
[13:36] <daftykins> ext4 is its' poison
[13:37] <popey> \o/ btrfs
[13:37] <gord> \o/ whatever we use by default because i'm too lazy to use anything else
[13:39] <mgdm> \o/ ext3
[13:39]  * mgdm avoids btrfs
[13:39] <daftykins> it's checking all the sectors now, i like this
[13:43] <davmor2> mgdm: ext4 I think you'll find is the default :P
[13:44] <popey> mgdm: wuss!
[13:44] <mgdm> I've not formatted a partition in ages, so defaults don't matter :)
[13:50] <BigRedS> I kep meaning to have a fiddle with btrfs, but I don't have a large body of data that I'm not that fussed about
[13:50] <BigRedS> actually, I just don't have that much data...
[13:51] <popey> /dev/sdc         22T   13T  8.2T  62% /srv
[13:51] <popey> thats my btrfs volume
[13:51] <rowinggolfer> is btrfs now on a par with zfs (functionality wise, not license etc..)
[13:51] <popey> quite impressed by the reliability of it now
[13:53] <SuperMatt> I've never gotten around to trying btrs, because every time I try to use it, I forget that I can't use it on /boot, get frustrated and then go back to ext4
[13:55] <BigRedS> haha, I love how many things still need a separate /boot. I'm still expecting it to become te norm to have a 2GB disk soldered tothe motherboard for /boot to live on
[13:56] <mgdm> disk? Flash :)
[13:56] <BigRedS> ah, yeah, I suppose
[13:56] <BigRedS> Oh yeah, we had some HPs (I think) with sd card slot on the board
[14:07] <BigRedS> Is there a synergy-alike that's better for simply conjoining two Linux PCs? I've not tried Synergy for some time, but wondered if there was some more native 'solution'
[14:10] <MartijnVdS> what's synergy? :)
[14:12] <daftykins> the one that forwards kb+mouse input over LAN
[14:16] <rowinggolfer> keylogging heaven.
[14:19] <daftykins> omg verified by visa is such rubbish
[14:19] <daftykins> rowinggolfer: not if you SSH tunnel it =]
[14:30] <BigRedS> ach, we're all friends here anyway
[14:31] <BigRedS> says he with the encrypted filesystem
[14:31] <daftykins> 0o
[14:33] <gord> i think fridays should be ubuntu-uk-synergy-party-friday, where we all connect to an internet synergy server and try and get work done when sharing one virtual mouse and keyboard
[14:33] <daftykins> that assumes work gets done without that!
[14:44] <Azelphur> Anyone know how I can stream microphone from my PC to my Laptop?#
[14:45] <brobostigon> vlc ?
[14:45] <Azelphur> yea I mean, an actual working example, I've been trying with vlc and various methods without luck
[14:45] <popey> pulse and gst both have networked audio
[14:45] <popey> questions
[14:46] <popey> bah
[14:46] <popey> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2715257/moving-audio-over-a-local-network-using-gstreamer
[14:47] <Azelphur> don't really wanna move audio, just wanna listen to the mic
[14:48] <brobostigon> pulseaudio could do that, pipe the microphone input on machineA, to speaker output on machineB.
[14:48] <brobostigon> can*
[14:49] <Azelphur> fun
[14:49] <brobostigon> yes.
[14:50] <popey> uhm
[14:52] <daftykins> that oh-so frequent of usecases ;)
[14:56]  * davmor2 thinks Azelphur is setting up a budget recording studio
[14:56] <daftykins> nah it's just his dream to never have to leave his seat
[14:56] <daftykins> :>
[15:08] <Azelphur> I used mumble, made it work
[15:28] <gord> doesn't mumble compress the audio with speex? ie, be terrible for music?
[15:28] <Azelphur> that's ok I only want it to listen in and find out when my fire alarm stops going off
[15:29] <gord> oh okay
[15:29] <gord> not concerned about the fire?
[15:29] <gord> i'd be more worried about that
[15:29] <Azelphur> no fire
[15:30] <daftykins> doh, this second NAS didn't come with the screws D:
[15:30] <gord> you don't have a container full of thousands of random screws through years of computer owning?
[15:31] <daftykins> yep
[15:31] <daftykins> not the point though is it
[15:31] <gord> i think that is entirely the point of the container ;P
[15:32] <daftykins> your being facetious is entirely unwelcome
[15:32] <gord> i think i'm helping
[15:33] <daftykins> you're wrong
[15:33] <gord> i don't think thats possible
[15:34] <daftykins> no need to troll
[15:38] <popey> gord: have you tried this tack in a job interview yet? ☺
[15:38] <popey> friend of mine did
[15:38] <popey> interviewer: what do you consider are your weaknesses?
[15:38] <popey> friend: I don't have any weaknesses
[15:38] <popey> i: isn't that arrogant?
[15:38] <popey> f: No, arrogance isn't one of my weaknesses
[15:38] <popey> zing!
[15:39] <daftykins> do you know the result?
[15:39] <popey> he didnt get the job
[15:39] <daftykins> XD
[15:39] <popey> colour me unsurprised
[15:39] <daftykins> sounds like it would've gone down well as the guy in Trainspotting's interview technique
[15:39] <mgdm> heheh
[15:39] <popey> directhex: oi! why does it say half life (beta) is not available on my platform?
[15:39] <popey> ooh, not watched trainspotting for years
[15:39]  * popey queues it up
[15:40] <daftykins> heh
[15:41] <popey> watched inglorious basterds yesterday which was fun
[15:41] <daftykins> yeah that wasn't half bad
[15:41] <daftykins> bit o' scalpin'
[15:41] <gord> if anyone asks me what my weaknesses are i just walk out. you never expose your weakness. its called evolution - duh
[15:42] <popey> cant remember the last proper job interview I had
[15:42] <daftykins> most i've been to have been quite a joke
[15:43] <daftykins> one states (local government) woman kept saying she kept wanting to call me John after the Led Zeppelin drummer given my surname :(
[15:43] <daftykins> i nearly asked if it would help me get the job if i learnt the drums
[15:43] <daftykins> but i got it anyway \o/
[15:43] <daftykins> that was about 4 years ago now :O
[15:44] <gord> i don't think i've ever not gotten a job after an interview, plenty of failed applications but always managed to get the job once i got to the interview part. must be my winning personality/threats of violence
[15:44] <daftykins> could be
[15:45] <daftykins> bet that'd be a different story now though
[15:45] <daftykins> apparently most super mundane jobs locally have 25+ applicants
[15:45] <daftykins> bad time to be an interviewer
[15:46] <gord> yeah probably, haven't actually applied for a job for about 4 years
[15:53] <czajkowski> gord: do you bribe them with your odd sweets
[15:54]  * daftykins starts on another creme egg
[15:56] <popey> ooh, sweets!
[15:56]  * popey gets some
[16:00] <SuperMatt> sweets? This is how my office treated us today https://twitter.com/WCRS_LDN/status/294830796500512769/photo/1
[16:00] <czajkowski> JELLIES!!!!!!!!!!!!
[16:01] <SuperMatt> this is a new weekly thing
[16:01] <SuperMatt> fridays are gonna be totes awesome from now on
[16:05] <daftykins> O_O
[16:05] <daftykins> SuperMatt: i'm applying :D
[16:05] <SuperMatt> I'm afraid I'm the only linux guy the company need
[16:08] <daftykins> i am not this
[16:12]  * TheOpenSourcerer spies wine gums!
[16:12] <TheOpenSourcerer> I had some fruit gums earlier :-)
[16:13]  * brobostigon has jelly babies, :)
[16:14] <TheOpenSourcerer> Ooh
[16:14]  * TheOpenSourcerer notices it is approaching Friday evening.
[16:14] <TheOpenSourcerer> Huuzaahhh
[16:14] <brobostigon> i can have them now, i couldnt because they had artificial colourings and preservatives in them.
[16:14] <TheOpenSourcerer> Beer O'clock thrusts into view
[16:14] <daftykins> are you allergic to those?
[16:14] <brobostigon> :D
[16:15] <brobostigon> daftykins: some, yes.
[16:15] <daftykins> that sucks hard
[16:15] <brobostigon> definatly.
[16:18] <daftykins> glad i don't have to think about what i eat
[16:24] <gord> i saw creme eggs on the shelves like, 1st of january this year. at first i was completely outraged obviously, but then i realized that i can now eat a cream egg so that outrage went away quickly
[16:25] <brobostigon> daftykins: :)
[16:25] <daftykins> gord: same here, i mean why is Easter stuff stocked so early? makes zero sense
[16:26] <daftykins> but then mere seconds after that thought, OM NOM NOM CREME EGGS!
[16:26] <gord> its stocked early because easter stuff is delicious
[16:26] <daftykins> heh
[16:26] <daftykins> maybe they're applying genius supermarket sale techniques
[16:26] <daftykins> people are fat after Christmas and New Year, so in order to beat them to trying to lose that weight in the gym, provide more comfort junk food that they can guiltily stock up on
[16:27] <daftykins> genius plan
[16:28] <gord> i was thinking earlier that the only way supermarkets are going to be able to compete with amazon in the future is if they instigate something like amazons suggestions, ala you bought x, other people who bought x also bought y kind of thing. anyway the end result is that i should be allowed to go snooping through other peoples shopping whilst in the supermarket
[16:29] <daftykins> gord: you can do this by pretending to be a checkout staffer!
[16:39] <dwatkins> some people might consider that to be taking things a bit too far, especially considering some of the hilarious and tragic suggestions Amazon has made over the years
[16:40] <dwatkins> "you bought this book on C++? How about a book about some things a small minority of people do in the bedroom which aren't fit for discussion on an Ubuntu IRC channel?"
[16:43] <Azelphur> Anyone bored feel free to make suggestions on this: http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20130125084110AAPXJms
[16:48] <daftykins> dwatkins: how intrigueing
[16:49] <daftykins> trust me it's not picnic being a landlord
[16:49] <daftykins> but that's definitely taking the biscuit and possibly some of the cake too
[16:50] <daftykins> if you've scrutinised your contract, it might be best to officially pursue some action regarding that alarm
[16:52] <Azelphur> daftykins, yea, I'm really starting to get to that point, I've asked him nicely, sent recorded mail, etc
[16:52] <daftykins> Azelphur: does the phone never get answered?
[16:53] <daftykins> you could, although it'd suck, offer to be a key holder on site for the fire alarm in some way i guess
[16:53] <daftykins> but it sounds like they need to be relocated
[16:53] <Azelphur> daftykins, It's only ever answered once, out of around 30 calls.
[16:53] <daftykins> =/
[16:53] <daftykins> that's a joke
[16:54] <Azelphur> yep
[16:54] <Azelphur> think it might have finally stopped, brb going home xD
[16:54] <daftykins> the problem is of course that you have to stay nicey nicey otherwise they can only make it harder for you and you won't want to live there :(
[16:55] <daftykins> zomg Azelphur out of his chair D:
[16:55] <daftykins> historic moment
[16:55] <daftykins> ;)
[17:00] <Azelphur> there we go, back home
[17:01] <Azelphur> yea, I went to my brothers and listened on mumble for it to stop
[17:01] <Azelphur> daftykins: he's doing lots of other unacceptable stuff to, the summary is that the place is in a state of disrepair
[17:02] <Azelphur> right now I got no hot water or heating because the boiler is fucked, having to use electric fan heater to stay warm
[17:02] <daftykins> >_<
[17:02] <Azelphur> so yea, he's no doubt gonna be getting in trouble
[17:02] <daftykins> is there a boiler per property or shared per a #?
[17:02] <Azelphur> per property
[17:03] <daftykins> if you got no headway, you could probably claim some health and safety thing over the fire alarm misuse and noise issue
[17:03] <Azelphur> baring in mind I'm aspergers and noise sensitive, it makes the flat totally untenable
[17:04] <Azelphur> fire alarm goes off I just pick my laptop up and leave pretty much.
[17:04] <Azelphur> even for a normal person it'd be pretty bad, they are commercial grade sirens
[17:04] <daftykins> i used to wake up with a fright every Tuesday morning in Uni halls of residence as the test went off for a few seconds >_<
[17:05] <Azelphur> fun
[17:05] <Azelphur> the longest stint we've had is 6 hours, that one was a little over 2 hours
[17:05] <daftykins> cor la
[17:07] <Laney> no boiler> how long ago did you inform the landlord?
[17:07] <Azelphur> about 2 hours ago, via an answering machine on the "24/7 emergency line"
[17:09] <Laney> i have had good luck with the council's environmental health department before
[17:09] <bigcalm> Afternoon peeps :)
[17:09] <Laney> they'll come round and do a little inspection then light a fire if anything's wrong
[17:09] <Azelphur> fun
[17:10] <daftykins> well at least then, there really *IS* a fire :P
[17:11] <bigcalm> Anybody know if I can buy online with dell but have the invoice handled by my company, or do I have to do such things on the phone?
[17:12] <daftykins> shouldn't cost anything to go through the motions on the site
[17:13] <daftykins> though beware, once a phone number / email is in, the lovely outsourced individuals will be climbing over each other to try and get the sale
[17:55] <aptanet> solarcloud_3srcn, no sign of any wireless settings in the bios on the laptop - I remembered to check when I rebooted :)
[17:56] <daftykins> what kind of wireless settings 0o
[18:09] <solarcloud_3srcn> daftykins: Saw this today :: http://manx.net/tv/mt-tv/watch/52461/chief-minister-briefing-2-  (3mins in)...
[18:14] <solarcloud_3srcn> SuperMatt: As Far As http://t.co/JAwXjoXC :::    .... it's called stodge.
[18:36] <solarcloud_3srcn> aptanet: never under.estimate the power of drop-box to put people in the picture of a bios system.
[18:45] <daftykins> solarcloud_3srcn: ruh-roh
[18:45] <solarcloud_3srcn> daftykins: Take it that's a chortle lol, then ?
[18:46] <daftykins> nah it sounds a bit serious if that presenter is trying to suggest the Channel Islands of Jersey and Guernsey will be annoyed at the IoM's recent actions
[18:46] <solarcloud_3srcn> Unite the clans !!
[18:47] <AlanBell> nigelb: are you in London?
[18:48] <daftykins> i still don't really have a clue what it's all about
[18:49] <daftykins> solarcloud_3srcn: looks like your local news presenters are as annoying as ours
[18:49] <solarcloud_3srcn> It's basically an Americae institute FATCA (not sure of spelling there) .. kicking as$ outta the OECD smaller dominions .. but I must get a paper, Yes.
[18:49] <daftykins> i might have to visit the IoM some day, see what yet another rock is like
[18:49] <daftykins> solarcloud_3srcn: is the TT still held?
[18:50] <solarcloud_3srcn> yep. but accommodation is ike, couchsurfing :: intermitent.
[18:50] <solarcloud_3srcn> **like
[18:50] <daftykins> hehe
[18:51] <daftykins> http://www.channelonline.tv/channelonline_aboutus1/
[18:52] <daftykins> look how daft ours look
[18:52] <solarcloud_3srcn> daftykins: Have you come across any interesting #-tags on twitter today ??
[18:52] <solarcloud_3srcn> opening...
[18:52] <daftykins> i don't use twitter, i think it's a pile of @!#%^
[18:53] <solarcloud_3srcn> oh Ok .soz ... Well, gargoyles a plenty there, I must say.
[18:53] <daftykins> ^_^
[19:00] <solarcloud_3srcn> daftykins:   mmmh ... Yoga . A by-word for chillout everywhere .. All depends on the teacher of course .. but I see a global need on most channels
[19:00] <solarcloud_3srcn> http://www.channelonline.tv/channelonline_guernseynews/DisplayArticle.asp?ID=503351
[19:00] <daftykins> oh my word
[19:00] <daftykins> the crap they have kids doing now
[19:01] <solarcloud_3srcn> lol
[19:01] <popey> what's wrong with yoga?
[19:01] <daftykins> oh hush
[19:01] <popey> ʘ‿ಠ
[19:02] <solarcloud_3srcn> At least it's in-doors . Think of all of the cross-country double lessons going on today .. I digress, but it is a bettr option, popey.
[19:02] <AlanBell> anyone in London?
[19:02] <daftykins> may help combat obesity? know what else might do that? not carting your chubby kids to school and back on an *island* >_<
[19:02] <daftykins> (in a car)
[19:03] <solarcloud_3srcn> The walk to school is prob.ly the safest part of their day ... except in Lurgan. NI.
[19:03] <popey> When we go away there's a bunch of people who go and do yoga first thing in the morning. they seem better off for it
[19:04] <daftykins> popey: where's that d'you mean?
[19:04] <popey> when we go away for work events
[19:04] <daftykins> ah yeah
[19:04] <popey> like sprints and the Ubuntu Developer Summit
[19:04]  * solarcloud_3srcn thnks popey is omnipotent
[19:05] <daftykins> i don't think there's anything wrong with it itself, i just don't think primary school kids need peace and to 'de-stress' XD
[19:05] <daftykins> although if they're surrounding themselves with constant noisy technology, perhaps it is of benefit
[19:06] <solarcloud_3srcn> daftykins: I epends how the teacher plays them , as I said.
[19:06] <popey> kids certainly need a way to wind down
[19:06] <solarcloud_3srcn> **depends
[19:06] <popey> reading is good for that
[19:06] <popey> that's one reason why we always read to our kids at bed time
[19:06] <popey> and the telly/computer/ds/ipad go off a while before bed
[19:07] <popey> yoga focusses the mind I guess. ☺
[19:07]  * solarcloud_3srcn says  "Good for the popeys" !!
[19:07] <daftykins> popey: do you practice the no-electronics in the bedroom strategy too?
[19:07] <popey> yeah
[19:07] <solarcloud_3srcn> oooh, that's a bit harsh daftykins
[19:07] <popey> no TV in the kids rooms, no PC
[19:07] <solarcloud_3srcn> ouch !
[19:08] <daftykins> solarcloud_3srcn: no it's very important, these days the kids are snapping themselves nude and sharing to one another >_<
[19:08] <daftykins> gotta clamp down
[19:08] <popey> they can use them in the morning
[19:08] <popey> just not before bed
[19:08] <popey> sophie has just started getting into email
[19:08] <solarcloud_3srcn> right, 'cos in the final analysis, It just makes *you* look bad, right ?
[19:08] <daftykins> dun-dun-duuuun
[19:09] <popey> solarcloud_3srcn: que?
[19:09] <daftykins> solarcloud_3srcn: i find that a very daft statement
[19:09] <daftykins> it's that the kids don't realise the consequences of that kind of thing
[19:09] <popey> yeah, it's funny, lots of kids in her class got ipads / ipod touches for xmas
[19:09] <popey> so they now have email addresses
[19:09] <popey> she's been off sick a couple of days, and got emails from her schoolfriends wishing her well
[19:09] <daftykins> crikey
[19:09] <popey> very cute
[19:09] <daftykins> what age is that?
[19:09] <popey> and yes, I saw one of the mails had a webcam photo attached
[19:10] <popey> 9
[19:10] <daftykins> crikey
[19:10] <popey> yeah
[19:10] <popey> when we heard other kids getting ipads we were somewhat dismayed
[19:10] <popey> peer pressure
[19:10] <daftykins> oh my word, super slow archive extract, i detect disk issues
[19:10] <popey> but we have loads of devices in the house so they don't need their own
[19:10] <daftykins> yeah, next they'll be after the 'new model'
[19:10] <popey> yeah
[19:10] <popey> not having that going on here ☺
[19:11] <daftykins> :D
[19:11] <popey> although she is using a nexus 7 ☺
[19:11] <popey> shared one
[19:11]  * daftykins pats 3 year old smartphone
[19:11] <daftykins> no contracts for me.
[19:11] <popey> me either
[19:12] <solarcloud_3srcn> It's like watching two Old clucking hen's, you two ^_^
[19:12] <popey> hah
[19:12] <daftykins> well i'm far from having kids but i find the issues surrounding their upbringing and technology quite interesting :)
[19:12] <popey> yeah, me too
[19:12] <popey> i worry about these things
[19:13] <popey> i caught sophie looking at a safe video on youtube recently
[19:13] <daftykins> treading that fine line between giving them what they *need* versus what might affect them in relation to their peers
[19:13] <popey> but the comments were less than savoury
[19:13] <daftykins> :( all too common that one yeah
[19:13] <popey> i hear there are browser extensions to block comments
[19:13] <popey> might install those
[19:13] <daftykins> iirc you have some website blocking in place at home, don't you?
[19:13] <popey> she doesn't need to see that crap
[19:13] <popey> only the usual opendns blocking
[19:14] <daftykins> ah do they have a blacklist?
[19:14] <daftykins> or just in using their DNS?
[19:14] <popey> yeah, but i never maintain it
[19:14] <popey> yeah
[19:14] <popey> i have never seen anything untoward
[19:14] <popey> and I keep an eye on things
[19:14] <popey> we have sophies email set to forward every mail she recives to mum
[19:15] <popey> will turn that off in a few years, but not yet
[19:15] <daftykins> *nod*
[19:15] <popey> sam doesnt have mail yet, he's only 6
[19:16] <daftykins> i'm pretty surprised at some of the aptitude of younger kids that are appearing online on even, freenode here lately
[19:16] <daftykins> i imagine how different it would've been having such easy access to further information on topics i was interested in back then
[19:17] <daftykins> always on broadband to get it too, rather than the classic driving your parents mad with big dial-up phonebills :D
[19:17] <popey> heh, yeah
[19:18] <popey> my mum had never used a computer before 2 years ago
[19:18] <popey> her very first internet connection was 20Mb broadband :D
[19:18] <popey> she will never know the pain of dial-up
[19:18] <solarcloud_3srcn> :-$:-/O:-)    can we talk about halflife 1 now ?
[19:19] <popey> also, my mother in law has an ipad
[19:19] <popey> she got it as a retirement present
[19:19] <daftykins> heh
[19:19] <popey> it's helped her stay in contact (mostly fb but also email) with people
[19:19] <popey> (she just pinged me which is what made me think of it)
[19:19] <daftykins> one of my clients got given one by one of his directorships recently, for 'reading notes on' because they *totally* didn't have laptops already
[19:20] <popey> haha
[19:20] <popey> thats the "its for doing my homework" excuse ☺
[19:20] <daftykins> :D
[19:20] <popey> i used that one in 1983
[19:20] <daftykins> he groaned as much as me, but he's loving it now
[19:20] <popey> got me a Sinclair Spectrum
[19:20] <daftykins> =]
[19:22] <solarcloud_3srcn> popey, 'ave you tried M.U.L.E  on it yet ?? (S-Spectrum) ??
[19:46] <popey> nope
[19:55]  * solarcloud_3srcn wonders if popey even knows what SWars M.U.L.E. actually is , mmmmhpf !
[19:57] <popey> nope ☺
[20:00] <solarcloud_3srcn> oh well .. perhaps this will help .. http://www.worldofmule.net/tiki-read_article.php?articleId=30 also http://www.worldofspectrum.org/forums/showthread.php?p=198568#post198568
[21:01] <solarcloud_3srcn> Man , I'm so tired .. I'm sweating tears !  .. Yesterday was the Alternative sock day. Today is the Wet insoles o' shoes Day,    but ya know; I can't complain. :::::::: Anyone gotta Ubuntu rash to itch ???
[21:19] <nigelb> AlanBell: In cabridge now. won't be back in London until the weeek after next, I'm afraid.
[21:50] <AlanBell> ok
[22:48] <directhex> CS 1.6 on Linux is now official, no hax needed to run it
[22:51] <brobostigon> CS ?
[22:52] <Aivaras> Counter Strike from steam.
[22:52] <brobostigon> ah.
[22:52] <Aivaras> I just saw that it is on Beta now.
[22:52] <Aivaras> http://steamcommunity.com/games/221410/announcements/detail/1766803738391201366?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=t.co
[22:55] <daftykins> for whoever plays that ;)
[22:58] <directhex> 4th most popular game on steam
[22:58] <directhex> 40k people playing it right now
[22:58] <directhex> more popular than CS:S or CS:GO
[23:09] <directhex> bah
[23:12] <timp_> Hi, I have managed to get ubuntu server running on my macbook pro, but cannot get desktop up.
[23:12] <timp_> Can I upgrade from server to desktop?
[23:12] <timp_> What is the package I need?
[23:12] <directhex> timp_, yeah, just install the ubuntu-desktop package
[23:12] <timp_> yay, thanks
[23:13] <timp_> Oh, what about wireless?
[23:18] <timp_> I have two macs, this one, wireless and the other booted with ubuntu server
[23:18] <timp_> If I connect them with an ethernet cable can I get to the outside world?
[23:45] <directhex> maybe there *is* some incompatibility right now for people who don't own HL1 as well as CS
[23:45] <directhex> i just did a reinstall of CS only without HL installed, and it's behaving differently to installing CS with HL already installed
[23:46] <directhex> gah
[23:46] <daftykins> hrmm
[23:46] <daftykins> didn't Windows based Steam get around that by having a base package?
[23:47] <directhex> daftykins, yeah, but something's changed since this afternoon
[23:47] <daftykins> ah-har
[23:47] <daftykins> i know what you mean about CS 1.6 btw, i just more meant shocking that people *do* still play it
[23:47] <directhex> i have a sad CEO who can't get it to run
[23:48] <daftykins> CEO 0o
[23:48] <daftykins> i'm seeing an update on HL1 0o
[23:49] <daftykins> 400MB!
[23:49] <directhex> daftykins, like i said, stuff has changed around!
[23:49] <daftykins> yeah my surprise was my verification
[23:51] <daftykins> amusingly the Windows client is seizing up refusing to play ball, it has that update paused and won't do anything about it
[23:51] <daftykins> good times
[23:51] <directhex> daftykins, do you own HL1?
[23:51] <daftykins> yeah
[23:52] <directhex> oddness
[23:52] <daftykins> ah
[23:52] <daftykins> i hit pause, instead of resume
[23:52] <daftykins> then resume, then it was done instantly


[00:45] <itnet7> bluebomber: we were doing a lot of activities. Install Fests, Bug Jams, Ubuntu Hours, Presentations at Linux Shows.
[00:46] <itnet7> We have a couple of events upcoming and that is what chaynie was planning to discuss
[00:56] <the_intrepid_cha> phew.
[00:56] <itnet7> :-)
[00:57] <X-Man> hello everyone
[00:57] <bluebomber> Cool, I'm here.
[00:57] <itnet7> Hey there X-Man !
[00:57] <bluebomber> Hi, X-Man!
[00:57] <itnet7> Hello again bluebomber !
[00:58] <chaynie_> stupid character limit.
[00:58] <itnet7> chaynie_: do you know how to use mootbot?
[00:58]  * chaynie_ nods
[00:58] <itnet7> sweet!
[00:58] <chaynie_> #startmeeting
[00:58] <Mootbot-UK> Meeting started at 23:58. The chair is chaynie_.
[00:58] <Mootbot-UK> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [PROGRESS REPORT], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[00:59] <chaynie_> We'll give everyone a couple more minutes, but if you're already here, why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself.
[01:00] <munz> hey all
[01:00] <bluebomber> My name is Mike, and I'm a grad student in the Department of Computer Science & Engineering at the University of South Florida.  Thanks, itnet7.
[01:02] <chaynie_> X-Man: Hello, chris, glad you could join us!
[01:03] <chaynie_> Right, let's go ahead and get this thing started.
[01:03] <bluebomber> [VOTE] yes.
[01:03] <Mootbot-UK> bluebomber, Only the meeting chair can do that
[01:04] <itnet7> lol
[01:04] <chaynie_> [TOPIC] Natty Narwhal Release Parties
[01:04] <Mootbot-UK> New Topic:  Natty Narwhal Release Parties
[01:04] <itnet7> Woohoo!!
[01:04] <chaynie_> Ok, so far, we've got two release parties planned for this weekend. One in Orlando, and the other one in Viera
[01:05] <chaynie_> I think, correct me if I'm wrong, itnet7.
[01:05] <bluebomber> Sounds great! I've only seen the Orlando one mentioned.
[01:05] <itnet7> Yes!
[01:05] <chaynie_> bluebomber: I think so far, only the Orlando party has been officially registered with the loco-directory site.
[01:06] <itnet7> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/811/detail/
[01:06] <Mootbot-UK> LINK received:  http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/811/detail/
[01:06] <itnet7> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/925/detail/
[01:06] <Mootbot-UK> LINK received:  http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/925/detail/
[01:06] <chaynie_> itnet7: Thanks! You beat me to it!
[01:07] <itnet7> I actually added the Viera party after Lupine received confirmation that we had the venue
[01:07] <chaynie_> The above links are for both release parties.
[01:07] <chaynie_> If you planning to attend, please add yourself to the guest list, so we have an idea of how many people are coming.
[01:08] <bluebomber> I'm coming, but delaying registering until I hear back with people who plan to ride with me :-(.
[01:08] <bluebomber> I'll register tonight, I'm sure.
[01:08] <itnet7> Nice bluebomber !!
[01:09] <chaynie_> itnet7:  will you have any swag to hand out, or did we not think of it in time?
[01:09] <itnet7> chaynie_: I think that chuck is also going to come
[01:10] <itnet7> We might have a couple of things to give away! Probably not a whole lot though
[01:10] <munz> i'll be coming and bringing 2 peeps
[01:10] <itnet7> Cool munz
[01:10] <chaynie_> itnet7: cool. pak33m added himself to the list, but I've not talked to him.
[01:11] <itnet7> Cool, It will be good to see everyone again, I know that pak33m has been really busy!
[01:12] <cjohnston> I'm working Saturday.. And Panera is just outside my coverage area
[01:12] <munz> what normaly goes on at the launch party?
[01:12] <munz> bring laptops etc? anything else?
[01:12] <chaynie_> cjohnston: if we replaced you with a cardboard cutout for a couple hours, would anyone notice?
[01:13] <bluebomber> Good question. Will this be like a meet-&-greet? What's the itinerary?
[01:13] <itnet7> cjohnston: that stinks, would have been good to see you!
[01:13] <itnet7> chaynie_: we can gimp him into photos!
[01:13] <cjohnston> chaynie_: not really
[01:13] <mhall119> chaynie_: what the heck? it's not 0100UTC yet
[01:13] <cjohnston> itnet7: I'm prolly less than 5 miles away
[01:13] <itnet7> bluebomber: Yes, kind of like a meet and greet,
[01:13] <chaynie_> munz, bluebomber: It's a meet & greet, install fest, and general hangout with fellow ubuntu users.
[01:14] <chaynie_> mhall119: itnet7 posted it as 8pm
[01:14] <mhall119> :(
[01:14] <itnet7> mhall119: We have usually held the meetings around 8:00, It's my bad sorry
[01:15] <mhall119> okay, carry on I'll be in and out, cooking dinner
[01:15]  * itnet7 wishes the LD could allow us to put our local time for local events
[01:15] <chaynie_> [ACTION] come to a consensus on the actual meeting time.
[01:15] <Mootbot-UK> ACTION received:  come to a consensus on the actual meeting time.
[01:15] <bluebomber> For what it's worth, it would probably double the size of our party if it were hosted later.
[01:15] <bluebomber> "Our" being mine.
[01:15] <itnet7> bluebomber: the release party? or the meeting?
[01:15] <bluebomber> I have a couple friends attending the Rays game, another a soccer tournament, etc.
[01:15] <bluebomber> Oh, sorry, I meant the Panera event.
[01:15] <chaynie_> bluebomber: we've reserved the time, but we usually go late.
[01:15] <mhall119> itnet7: there's a bug for it already, but it's gonna require a fair bit of refactoring
[01:15] <bluebomber> On Saturday.
[01:16] <chaynie_> since mhall119 brought it up, would 8 or 9pm work better for most people?
[01:16] <bluebomber> For what are we trying to achieve a consensus? Another meeting before the release party?
[01:17] <mhall119> 9pm
[01:17] <itnet7> I wouldn't mind 9pm either
[01:17] <itnet7> X-Man: ? bluebomber ?
[01:17] <itnet7> dantalizing: ?
[01:17] <chaynie_> bluebomber: Historically, we've always held meetings @ 8pm.
[01:17] <itnet7> :-)
[01:17] <chaynie_> itnet7: no one cares what dantalizing thinks.
[01:18] <itnet7> chaynie_: :-(
[01:18] <itnet7> :-)
[01:18] <bluebomber> I have no preference between 8 and 9. :)
[01:18]  * chaynie_ kids.
[01:18]  * mhall119 cares what dantalizing thinks
[01:18] <itnet7> Okay, cool, let's go with 9 then!!
[01:18] <itnet7> mhall119: I secretly do too, just don't tell him
[01:18] <mhall119> I'd be happy if it just wasn't changed multiple times the dayof
[01:18] <chaynie_> [AGREED] Hold future meetings at 9pm
[01:18] <Mootbot-UK> AGREED received:  Hold future meetings at 9pm
[01:19] <X-Man> 9:00 works for me
[01:19] <itnet7> mhall119: agreed
[01:19] <itnet7> It won't happen again, I will pay attention to where it says UTC in the future
[01:19] <itnet7> I saw Wednesday
[01:20] <itnet7> and was trying to be helpful, So I messed it up
[01:20] <chaynie_> mhall119, itnet7: let's blame coordinated universal time and be done with it.
[01:20] <itnet7> sorry
[01:20] <dantalizing> 9pm ftw
[01:20] <itnet7> Sweet!!!
[01:20] <mhall119> chaynie_: +1
[01:20] <itnet7> dantalizing: :-)
[01:21] <chaynie_> ok, back to the task at hand, does anyone have any questions/concerns about the Orlando release party?
[01:21] <chaynie_> they'll have wifi, fyi.
[01:21] <mhall119> how about power?
[01:22] <dantalizing> we've run squids around in that place before
[01:22] <chaynie_> I can probably bring a couple strips, but dantalizing is correct.
[01:22] <itnet7> We will bring some power strips
[01:22] <itnet7> too
[01:22] <itnet7> Yeah!
[01:22] <chaynie_> though it would be easier if everyone brings what they need.
[01:23] <mhall119> itnet7: do we have any swag?
[01:23] <itnet7> Sure!
[01:23] <itnet7> Not too much
[01:23] <itnet7> I will go through and doublecheck
[01:23] <mhall119> I think I have a sheet or two of stickers if I can find them
[01:23] <mhall119> the new logo ones
[01:23] <itnet7> Nice!!
[01:23] <munz> stickers :)
[01:23] <dantalizing> sry guests visting .. afk
[01:23] <chaynie_> mhall119: didn't they start shipping swag to you when you joined the cabal?
[01:23] <mhall119> chaynie_: that's how I got the stickers
[01:23] <itnet7> I was thinking of giving out some of the band we have left over from UDS
[01:23] <itnet7> the Natty
[01:23] <itnet7> ones
[01:24] <mhall119> itnet7: that's be cool, since it's the right release
[01:24] <itnet7> Sure
[01:24] <mhall119> I got a mousepad too we can give away, since I have a laptop
[01:25] <itnet7> I thought about blogging about the bands and giving 10 away to the first 14 teams that send me a snail mail address or something
[01:25] <itnet7> I have a copy of the 5th Edition Ubuntu Book
[01:25] <mhall119> itnet7: I say we just give them away to random people at Panera
[01:26] <chaynie_> itnet7: Do you want to give a quick speel about the Viera release party?
[01:26] <itnet7> We could do that too!! They might not appreciate it if we wrestle them to ground and make them wear it though!
[01:26] <itnet7> j/k
[01:26] <itnet7> Sure
[01:26] <mhall119> itnet7: only one way to find out
[01:26] <bluebomber> Who wouldn't appreciate a quick wrestle and banding with their half turkey sandwich?
[01:26] <itnet7> This is going to be the second release party that we are hosting at the Pizza Gallery at the Avenues of Melbourne
[01:26] <Chloric> evening!
[01:27] <itnet7> They have a really cool back room off to the side
[01:27] <bluebomber> Hi, Chloric.
[01:27] <Chloric> hey!
[01:27] <itnet7> that has a projector and French Doors that we can close in case the bar area is noisy
[01:27] <Chloric> Itnet! its been a loooooooooong time
[01:28] <itnet7> I have invited the SpaceCoast Linux Users Group, The Melbourne LUG, and the Brevard Group Linux Sig
[01:28] <itnet7> hey there Chloric !!
[01:28] <itnet7> we Should have plenty of powerstrips
[01:28] <itnet7> and their wifi Rocks!
[01:28] <itnet7> That's about all I can think of!!
[01:29] <bluebomber> How late do you estimate the parties will last?
[01:29] <itnet7> bluebomber: viera is scheduled from 6 - 9 pm
[01:29] <chaynie_> bluebomber: probably until 4-5pm.
[01:31] <itnet7> Oh, I think I forgot to mention, I did request our CD's. They won't be hear in time for this weekend
[01:31] <bluebomber> What CDs will you get and how many?
[01:31] <itnet7> but if anyone is planning to still add a Natty Release party for their area and are planning to do it next weekend, we might have them by like Thursday
[01:32] <Chloric> Govatent and I might have a sporadic one
[01:32] <itnet7> Ubuntu Natty I'm not sure of the quantity
[01:32] <bluebomber> Coincidentally we are planning a Natty release party at USF.
[01:32] <itnet7> bluebomber: Sweet!!
[01:32] <bluebomber> GNOME, then? 32bit?
[01:32] <itnet7> zoopster: might be able to help you with it if he has the time
[01:33] <itnet7> bluebomber: Well, usually it was Gnome/KDE/Server
[01:33] <itnet7> 32 bit
[01:33] <itnet7> Desktop for Gnome/Unity
[01:33] <itnet7> and KDE
[01:33] <itnet7> and I think 64 bit server
[01:33] <bluebomber> I see. Thanks.
[01:34] <zoopster> I can post the USF release party on the meetup group
[01:34] <itnet7> What we usually do is get the release by bit torrent the day it comes out, and create usb install disks
[01:34] <itnet7> zoopster: bluebomber has recently joined the team
[01:35] <bluebomber> I'm new! :)
[01:35] <itnet7> bluebomber: if zoopster posts it to the meetup group you might get between 15 - 20 other people
[01:36] <munz> hey zoopster
[01:36] <zoopster> munz: hey chris
[01:36] <itnet7> Well Chloric even if it's only you and govatent, can you please add it to the LoCo Directory, and we can help promote it
[01:37] <bluebomber> Hmmm, ok. I'll see what we can do about public events. This would be for a local USF organization chapter. We can definitely discuss in coming days.
[01:38] <chaynie_> Ok, is there anything else anyone wants to discuss before we wrap this puppy up?
[01:38] <itnet7> bluebomber: No Problem
[01:41] <itnet7> chaynie_: sounds good for the most part if anyone wants to discuss anything else we can do it without Mootbot-UK !
[01:41] <chaynie_> itnet7: Alright, then.
[01:41] <zoopster> having another balloon launch on 29 April if anyone is inclined to help
[01:41] <itnet7> Looking forward to coming to Panera! :-)
[01:41] <chaynie_> Thanks for coming everyone. See you at the release parties!
[01:41] <zoopster> not ubuntu related
[01:41] <chaynie_> #endmeeting
[01:41] <Mootbot-UK> Meeting finished at 00:41.
[01:42] <itnet7> zoopster: I wish I could, but I doubt I will be able to
[01:42] <bluebomber> Balloon launch?
[01:43] <zoopster> bluebomber: look at questforstars.com
[01:47] <bluebomber> OK.
[01:48] <munz> whats it looking like zoopster time location wise?
[01:51] <bluebomber> Has anyone been to the Florida Linux Show?
[01:53] <munz> no u?
[01:53] <Chloric> i think govatent went
[01:53] <bluebomber> Nope. I'm trying to see when it is. The site's up but no mention of date/time.
[01:55] <zoopster> bluebomber: it's in October I'm told
[01:56] <zoopster> bluebomber: oct 28 in orlando
[01:56] <zoopster> and I've presented at it both times
[01:56] <zoopster> munz: current models show deltona
[01:57] <zoopster> or south daytona
[01:57] <zoopster> munz: it keeps changing
[02:02] <bluebomber> Thanks, zoopster.
[02:02] <zoopster> bluebomber: sure thing
[02:04] <bluebomber> I'm clocking out for today. I'll reconnect later and continue networking with you all (definitely be back for the meeting tomorrow night). Thanks for the welcome and information.
[02:05] <mhall119> zoopster: is there gonna be another FLS this october?
[02:05] <mhall119> Brian was talking about trying to organize a community show
[02:05] <munz> zoopster, cool whats the time line?
[02:06] <zoopster> mhall119: according to Rod who texted me back in Feb...yes 28 Oct
[02:06] <mhall119> hmmm, when is UDS-P going to be?
[02:06] <zoopster> mhall119: and I cannot remember the guys name, but there is something else trying to something around uds
[02:07] <zoopster> mhall119: 20-24 Oct I think
[02:07] <zoopster> munz: we set it off at 2:45p and expect it to land around 5p sometime
[02:07] <itnet7> mhall119: fossetcon
[02:07] <mhall119> that's not a M-F
[02:07] <itnet7> ping Bryanstein
[02:08] <zoopster> then it's 24-28 Oct
[02:08] <munz> cool, i should be around to help :)
[02:08] <zoopster> munz: awesome
[02:08] <itnet7> mhall119: Bryanstein is putting it together
[02:08] <itnet7> afaik
[02:08] <mhall119> itnet7: FLS or the community show?
[02:08] <zoopster> that's it...Bryan!
[02:09] <itnet7> the community show
[02:09] <itnet7> yup
[02:09] <mhall119> awesome
[02:09] <itnet7> right zoopster
[02:09] <zoopster> could not remember his name
[02:16] <itnet7> I am not sure whether or not it's totally live.... http://fossetcon.org/
[02:30] <mhall119> chaynie: at least we've amused all of Facebook today
[14:59] <chaynie> mhall119: Apparently so. We should take our show on the road.
[16:24] <DammitJim> why is rsync over ssh so slow? I'm only getting about 1.1Mbps!!!
[16:24] <mhall119> because it's having to encrypt it
[16:25] <DammitJim> would an rsync server be much faster?
[16:25] <mhall119> possibly
[16:25] <mhall119> is it one big file or lots of smaller ones?
[16:26] <DammitJim> different sizes... anything from config files to 10GB videos
[16:29] <mhall119> it could be disk i/o slowing you down then
[16:29] <DammitJim> I'm doing this on a buffalo linkstation running debian
[16:30] <mhall119> rsync has to compare the files looking for differences
[16:31] <maxolasersquad> mhall119: Doesn't rsync use the timestamp and filesize to do the compare?
[16:36] <mhall119> maxolasersquad: hmmm, I thought it would do a diff and only transfer what's different
[16:50] <DammitJim> it depends on what switch you give it... but normally it's used by comparing the files and if they are newer, then it overwrites them
[18:04] <maxolasersquad> Python question, does it make sense to have a module that has two components, a class defining connections, and a function that returns a collection of saved connection?
[18:04] <maxolasersquad> And have the module be collection.py
[18:07] <maxolasersquad> More specifically, does that sound like a sound way of providing an interface into connections?
[18:07] <maxolasersquad> s/collection/connection
[18:08] <chaynie> maxolasersquad: there is a couple schools of thought on this.
[18:08] <chaynie> err, there are.
[18:09] <chaynie> On one side, advocates of dynamic/duck-typing argue against the use of explict interfaces.
[18:10] <chaynie> While proponents of static typing insist that correctly and explicitly defined interfaces reduce run-time errors.
[18:12] <chaynie> Python, being the snazzy dyanmic language that it is, tends to favor the dynamic model, wherein, if an object responds correctly to all of the calls required by an interface, than it can be said to implement that interface, even if it's not explictly doing so.
[18:13] <maxolasersquad> I need for users to define database connection parameters, and for interfaces to pull those parameters out and be able to establish connections with them.
[18:14] <maxolasersquad> I have a Connections class for defining a db connection, and can store them in seahorse.
[18:15] <maxolasersquad> I then have a function that returns a collection of stored connection objects.
[18:15] <chaynie> doesn't sound too bad.
[18:16] <chaynie> but isn't seahorse for storing encryption data?
[18:16] <maxolasersquad> I then have a GTK app that displays the connections in a tree.  They don't actually do anything yet, but my next step is that expanding a tree node will show the db objects under that connection.
[18:16] <maxolasersquad> yes, I store user/pass and sid/server
[18:16] <maxolasersquad> I use seahorse so I can store the password encrypted.
[18:16] <maxolasersquad> Just like Nautilus does for ssh, smb, ftp, etc. connections.
[18:17] <chaynie> maxolasersquad: i don't see any problem so far.
[18:18] <maxolasersquad> Ok.  I just don't know when my C upbringing is blinding me from seeing the Python way. :)
[19:43] <chaynie> maxolasersquad: the rule of thumb is when it feels as painful as it would be to do the same thing in C, you should probably rethink it.
[20:59] <pete_> Hi all! Anybody in here know anything about recovering a open office spreadsheet?
[21:03] <maxolasersquad> pete_: To the best of my knowledge, if the autorecovery doesn't come up when you run OO, then there is not recovering it.
[21:04] <pete_> I just spent 20 hours entering in inventory items... and then my computer froze up and I had to kill the power... I tried to open the spread sheet and it did the auto recovery thing, but it opened it as a writer document and obliterated all of my data
[21:05] <pete_> I don't want to have to re-enter all this data
[21:05] <maxolasersquad> So your data is in the writer document?
[21:06] <pete_> yeah, but it is all "#####",
[21:06] <pete_> I was on my way to making a back up when all this went down
[21:07] <maxolasersquad> Where you saving along the way?
[21:07] <pete_> is there a way that I could recover a previous version?
[21:07] <pete_> yeah I saved after each set of items I entered... I saved 100 times
[21:07] <maxolasersquad> Save your "recovered" version elsewhere, and then try to reopen.
[21:08] <pete_> but only in one location
[21:08] <maxolasersquad> I don't think when you recover that it overwrites the last version until you manually save over it.
[21:09] <pete_> For some reason it converted it to a writer doc and auto saved it... I think I accidentally opened it in writer and recovered it there
[21:10] <pete_> Can I send the file to somebody and see if they can un screw it?
[21:10] <maxolasersquad> Is the .ods file still on your hard drive.
[21:10] <pete_> yes
[21:11] <maxolasersquad> Spreadsheets or .ods and documents are .odt
[21:11] <maxolasersquad> Do you have both a .ods and .odt, or just an .ods that only opens in writer?
[21:11] <pete_> .ods, but everytime I try to open it with spread sheet it opens in writer
[21:12] <maxolasersquad> Craziness.
[21:12] <pete_> .ods , and it only opens in writer
[21:12] <maxolasersquad> You can send it to me and I'll see if there's anything I can do, though I'm certainly no expert.
[21:12] <maxolasersquad> My address is my hande @gmail.com
[21:13] <pete_><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[21:13] <maxolasersquad> my handle is maxolasersquad
[21:13] <maxolasersquad> then @gmail.com
[21:13] <pete_> ok
[21:15] <pete_> should be there
[21:16] <maxolasersquad> got it
[21:16] <pete_> cool
[21:18] <maxolasersquad> the document looks pretty far gone to me.
[21:19] <maxolasersquad> It was opening in Calc for me, but it was just one cell with binary data.
[21:19] <maxolasersquad> And some text defining the XML layouts.
[21:19] <pete_> $#&#%^^%*$*%$&% Rarrrr... Ok, Thanks... I guess I have to redo it for free....Customer will not be pleased
[21:20] <maxolasersquad> This is the only time I've heard of the autorecovery messing up a document, but probably not the first time its actually happened.
[21:21] <pete_> I was about to move it to my google docs and be done with it...  I just told the boss... he was almost cool with my failure... I only have to Sepaku a little bit
[21:31] <pete_> Thank all for the help... later
[22:44] <madbovine> chatty group
[22:47] <madbovine> is there anyone actually here?
[22:48] <madbovine> guess not
[23:13] <bluebomber> I'm sorta here, madbovine who left.


[12:52] <bdmurray> dieguito: Have you tried using the development release of Ubuntu?
[12:54] <dieguito> not yet, latest cd I have is 7.04, I tried with other distros and all of them using libata share the problem
[12:54] <dieguito> worth mentioning among those Arch linux which has kernel 2.6.22
[01:22] <sirpan> hola tengo problemas con ubuntu 7.04 kernel 2.6.20-16-generic y nvidia.. alguna solucion?
[02:27] <mjg59> BenC: Hm. TIFM in the core kernel needs to be disabled in order to use the one in l-u-m.
[03:36] <calc> seems my audio stopped working on gutsy at some point it is intel hda with realtek 888
[03:37] <johanbr> calc: If it's a kernel problem, it should work if you go back to a previous kernel.
[03:38] <calc> oh i figured out the issue
[03:38] <calc> it changed how it works for which audio port to increase volume
[03:38] <calc> it claims it is the surround port now
[03:40] <johanbr> Oh, okay. So there have been patches to the hda driver this late in the game?
[03:41] <calc> not sure when it happened i haven't been using audio on my desktop in a while
[04:09] <mjg59> BenC: Hm. I suspect that the ACPI oopses on boot on some machines might be my fault
[04:09] <mjg59> BenC: Looking into that
[04:46] <mjg59> This is confusing me to an excessive degree
[04:47] <mjg59> I've made no substantive changes, but it seems to boot now
[06:18] <sud0> can anyone help with compiling using older kernel headers?
[08:50] <AnAnt> Hello, I got a question, why is CONFIG_SND_HDA_INTEL option not set anymore ?
[08:50] <AnAnt> it was enabled in 2.6.22-8
[08:50] <AnAnt> but in the current version it is disabled
[08:50] <AnAnt> is there a reason for this ?
[08:52] <RAOF> AnAnt: Didn't hda_intel get moved to linux-ubuntu-modules for ease of out-of-kernel updates?
[08:52] <AnAnt> RAOF: dunno
[08:52] <john_> can any one shed some light on the dmi_string:out of memory error that appears on startup. also have kernal alive error but one problem at a time as i am a NEWBIE
[08:53] <john_> was ok on 32 bit ubunto but moved over to 64 bit
[08:53] <john_> running a duo core intel chip
[08:54] <AnAnt> RAOF: what I know is that hsfmodem doesn't compile the HDA modules because of this option being not set
[08:55] <kraut> moin
[08:55] <RAOF> AnAnt: Yup, it's in l-u-m.
[08:59] <AnAnt> RAOF: what do you mean by "ease of out-of-kernel updates" ?
[09:00] <RAOF> AnAnt: I'm in no way authorititive, but it seems that hda_intel was taken out of the kernel and put into l-u-m so that l-u-m could track upstream ALSA more closely.
[09:01] <AnAnt> ok
[09:01] <RAOF> Rather than waiting for ALSA -> vanilla kernel -> Ubuntu.
[09:49] <Whoopie> BenC: Hi, could you consider adding the ipw2100/2200 power management fixes? it's bug 136357
[09:49] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 136357 in linux-source-2.6.22 "ipw2*00: please backport fixes for power management commands" [Wishlist,Triaged]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/136357
[11:30] <amitk> Whoopie: the patches look sane. I will push in the changes
[11:52] <Whoopie> amitk: thanks a lot.
[01:08] <DexterF> hi
[01:08] <DexterF> are the feisty/gutsy kernels patched in regards to the usb system somehow?
[01:12] <DexterF> got a cheap usb hub here, works fien in etch, slack, windows, on two other machines, too. only ubuntu screws up when I attach it. usb-dvb-t box stops responding and so does a card reader
[01:15] <amitk> DexterF: the core usb subsystem is what is in mainline 2.6.22
[01:15] <amitk> DexterF: filing a bug with details of your devices would help in tracking down the problem
[01:16] <DexterF> amitk: sure, only wanted to check usb isn't patched beforehand
[02:18] <StevenK> Hey guys, I worked to get virtualbox-ose into Gutsy, which requires a kernel module to work, and it looks like a candidate for ubuntu-kernel-modules to include for i386/amd64, but virtualbox-ose-source (which is the source of the modules) is in universe, so I'm looking for suggestions.
[02:20] <zul> StevenK: I think including the virtualbox in feisty caused too many problems last time around so thats why they werent probably not included this time around but ask someone like BenC
[02:21] <StevenK> virtualbox wasn't in Feisty - surely that was vmware?
[02:21] <zul> yeah it was
[02:21] <zul> im sure of it or I need more caffine
[02:32] <lamont> BenC: sigh.  -11.34 ftbfs on hppa with missing module sha256... wanna reenable all the crypto modules, or shall I do a test build or 3 and make a known-good patch for -11.35?
[02:34] <BenC> lamont: test build please
[02:35] <lamont> BenC: will do
[02:59] <amitk> BenC: I am going to push 1pw2x00 power management fixes soon. Testing now. When are you uploading?
[02:59] <amitk> s/1pw/ipw
[03:00] <zul> BenC: can we get xen amd64 added to lum and meta as well?
[03:17] <lamont> BenC: where is it deciding that sha256 is missing... it's not in modules.hppa64...
[03:18] <lamont> ah... sounds like debian/d-i/modules/crypto-modules is to blame, maybe?
[03:24] <lamont> someone remind me what the updateconfigs target is?
[03:29] <amitk> debian/rules updateconfigs?
[03:29] <amitk> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelMaintenance
[03:30] <amitk> lamont: updateconfigs is runn for all flavours in all architectures
[03:31] <rtg> amitk: Do you think your recent commits will have any effect on bug ##139171 ?
[03:32] <rtg> hello ubuntoid? bug #139171
[03:32] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 139171 in linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.22 "ipw2200 regression in gutsy" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/139171
[03:33] <zul> rtg: that one looks more like a network-manager problem
[03:34] <rtg> zul: Except for 'ipw2200: Firmware error detected.'. amitk's patch mentions causing firmware errors.
[03:35] <Mithrandir> pkl_: what's the status of the new lum with fixed unionfs?
[03:36] <pkl_> Mithrandir: the unionfs fixes are in git.  I don't know if BenC has done an upload yet.
[03:37] <Mithrandir> ok, I'll pester him then.  Thanks a lot for fixing the problem though! :-)
[03:39] <Mithrandir> BenC: if you could tell me what the status of new lum is, that'd be great.
[03:41] <amitk> rtg: any effect will be unintentional. I looked at the patch from the point of view of getting  'iwpriv set_power' fixed
[03:42] <lamont> BenC: test build running now, eta 2 hours or so. :(  patch in git (lamont/hppa-ia64.git that probably fixes things if you happen to be doing -11.35 before the build finishes)
[03:43] <Whoopie> amitk: btw, do you know why the history function for gitweb doesn't work?
[03:43] <lamont> Whoopie: one guess would be the rebasing that happens
[03:44] <Whoopie> lamont: sorry, could you explain more?
[03:45] <lamont> Whoopie: how does it "doesn't work"?
[03:45] <Whoopie> lamont: history is empty. e.g. in Linus' tree, I can see the whole history of each file.
[03:47] <Whoopie> lamont: http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git?p=ubuntu/ubuntu-gutsy.git;a=history;h=d0ecf29b6abcd567121e63aa43f06e7c587d89e7;f=drivers/net/wireless/ipw2200.c
[03:47] <Whoopie> lamont: just an example, it should show the latest patch which amitk commited.
[03:47] <lamont> good question
[03:48] <lamont> git log on the file shows the right stuff - so I'd wager it's gitweb having fits
[05:53] <bdmurray> mjg59: A bit ago we talked about bug 91056 and I thought you mentioned you would have to think about it.  Am I recalling things correctly?
[05:53] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 91056 in xkeyboard-config "[Feisty]  synaptic keypad lock button launches KDE or Gnome Help Center" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/91056
[05:55] <mjg59> bdmurray: Yeah
[05:56] <mjg59> I can reproduce it on my new system, so I'll try to figure it out
[05:56] <bdmurray> Okay, I thought you said something about it sending a keypress even on release.
[05:56] <bdmurray> s/even/event/
[05:59] <mjg59> Yeah, that's what I see
[06:28] <lamont> BenC: patch committed in lamont/hppa-ia64.git confirmed good.  Please grab it.
[06:28] <lamont> 5f73606476035c5dfc5166d94f1ca48e42fe13a4
[06:33] <dieguito> dear kernel hackers, may I once again steal some seconds of your attention so you fix the makefile that is leaving r818x.ko out of kernel packages: lp bug #129407 ?
[06:33] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 129407 in linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.22 "r818x.ko missing in  linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.22-8-generic" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/129407
[06:34] <rtg> dieguito: I put it in Gutsy lum yesterday.
[06:34] <dieguito> i'll try to update now
[06:35] <rtg> dieguito: It hasn't hit the archive yet. Maybe by tomorrow.
[06:35] <dieguito> awww, well i'll keep an eye
[06:36] <rtg> dieguito: incidentally, its going to be called rtl_8180.ko in order to clearly distinguish it from rtl818x.
[06:40] <dieguito> which version is the one i'm waiting for?
[06:44] <rtg> dieguito: it depends on your device. Look in  http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git?p=ubuntu/ubuntu-gutsy-lum.git;a=blob;h=b548f172c049814fd3b11c128eb8c066c27f6825;hb=c1b118eaae96119089a567ff175109f661c6f149;f=ubuntu/wireless/rtl8180/rtl8180/r8180_core.c for rtl8180_pci_id_tbl[]  to see if your device is supported.
[06:45] <dieguito> I mean the ubuntu package that is including the driver, I already know it works with my card, I was using that before
[06:45] <dieguito> I even had to compile it's 10 different incarnations when ubuntu lost the module, i ended using ndiswrapper
[06:50] <rtg> dieguito: I'm not sure what you are asking. rtl8180 will appear in linux-ubuntu-modules, which you will get as part of the normal update process.
[06:50] <dieguito> i mean, which is the version of the ubuntu package
[06:50] <dieguito> the version that includes the previously missing driver
[06:51] <dieguito> linux-ubuntu-modules 2.6.22.what
[06:52] <rtg> dieguito: It looks like the kernel upload is forcing an ABI bump, so lum will be 2.6.22-12.1
[06:52] <dieguito> yeah that :)
[06:57] <dieguito> thank you rtg :)
[06:58] <bigjools> hey folks, are there any plans to upgrade alsa further in gutsy? (to fix https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.22/+bug/131133)
[06:58] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 131133 in linux-source-2.6.22 "[gutsy]  no sound on Dell Latitude D630/D830/Precision M4300 pci id 8086:284b" [Medium,Triaged]
[07:14] <mjg59> rtg: http://rtl-wifi.sourceforge.net/wiki/Main_Page seems to have a more up-to-date rtl8180
[07:14] <rtg> mjg59: I'll lok.
[07:14] <rtg> s/lok/look/
[07:15] <rtg> mjg59: Did you get a change to test?
[07:15] <rtg> s/change/chance/
[07:15] <rtg> can't type today.
[07:15] <mjg59> Afraid not - I should be able to get a tester once we have images that fit on a CD again
[07:16] <rtg> mjg59: I've been building Live CD images on USB sticks.
[07:23] <Mithrandir> DVDs generally also work.
[07:31] <mjg59> rtg: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.20/+bug/74672 - I suspect that'll still be an issue with the forward port?
[07:31] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 74672 in linux-source-2.6.20 "ESSID gets truncated" [Medium,Confirmed]
[07:35] <rtg> mjg59: Yep. I'll patch lum, but its already missed the upload.
[07:35] <mjg59> Ok, no problem
[07:38] <dieguito_> that rtl-wifi version of the driver works, if that's useful to know
[07:38] <rtg> dieguito_: Good. That is the first positive confirmation. get that mjg59?
[07:39] <mjg59> Yup
[07:39] <dieguito_> well, it works but you *have* to make it work
[07:39] <dieguito_> and if I recall correctly, it suffers from the hangs ubuntu's version had. I would have to test again.
[07:41] <Krystof> maybe someone who's better at searching launchpad than I am can find it, but there is at least one extended discussion about the r818x driver where the deadlocks are discussed and a possible patch advanced in one of the bug reports about freezes on network changes or large data rates (with that driver)
[07:41] <dieguito_> yes it's somewhere around
[07:43] <dieguito_> lp bug #77152 is also related to 818x hardware
[07:43] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 77152 in ndiswrapper "Can't upload files" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/77152
[07:43] <dieguito_> (and I'm suffering it right now)
[07:45] <dieguito_> you may also want to close this lp bug #22689 since it seems to be about the old driver version
[07:45] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 22689 in linux-source-2.6.17 "Wi-Fi PCMCIA card fails association until CTRL+C is pressed." [Medium,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/22689
[07:47] <dieguito_> and the freeze bug is lp bug #31857, this one is a dupe of the essid truncate one lp bug #33714 and mark lp bug #45146 as dupe of  #31857
[07:47] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 31857 in linux-source-2.6.15 "r818x driver freezes randomly" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/31857
[07:47] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 33714 in linux-source-2.6.15 "r818x not working" [Medium,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/33714
[07:47] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 45146 in linux-source-2.6.15 "Hard lockup using realtek wireless since 2.6.15-22 " [Medium,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/45146
[07:49] <dieguito_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/+bugs?field.searchtext=r818x&orderby=-importance&search=Search&field.status%3Alist=New&field.status%3Alist=Incomplete&field.status%3Alist=Confirmed&field.status%3Alist=Triaged&field.status%3Alist=In+Progress&field.status%3Alist=Fix+Committed&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.has_patch=&field.has_no_package=
[07:49] <dieguito_> (sorry about all that text)
[07:51] <Krystof> 31857 is the one I was thinking of
[07:51] <Krystof> as in, it has some useful discussion
[07:53] <Krystof> (the patch that I have seen somewhere is to remove the lock_irqsave/unlock_irqrestore in that function; I doubt it's correct, but it probably deals with the immediate symptoms)
[07:54] <dieguito_> right now, the problems with the r818x thing are: locks when uploading files or doing lot of stuff via wifi, no multicast support, truncated essid names, no accurate signal strength
[07:56] <Krystof> the locks can be worked around by using a -386 kernel, too
[08:04] <rtg> mjg59: I'm liking the driver at http://rtl-wifi.sourceforge.net. Maybe I can dump the rtl softmac and encryption hacks in favor of the in-kernel versions.
[08:05] <rtg> Wish I'd have found this one first before porting the Feisty mess.
[08:07] <Nafallo> wow.
[08:07] <Nafallo> nice URL ;-)
[08:19] <Nafallo> mjg59: hi mate, around?
[08:19] <mjg59> Nafallo: Hi
[08:20] <Nafallo> mjg59: if I was sick of dell and consider buying a lenovo. which one would be a good choice if you know of hand?
[08:21] <mjg59> Nothing in the 3000 range
[08:21] <Nafallo> mjg59: dell wants one and a half month to deliver a D630, so screw them ;-)
[08:21] <Nafallo> mjg59: oki, thinkpad it is. more specific or are those all good ones? :-)
[08:22] <mjg59> Depends what you're looking for
[08:22] <mjg59> They should all work fairly similarly
[08:22] <mjg59> Though I've only direct experience of the T61
[08:23] <Nafallo> basically something to pick with me out on the datacenters if need be, but also sitting home and from time to time compiling stuff.
[08:23] <Nafallo> basically.
[08:23] <Nafallo> X is to damn small I think. how is the T-series?
[08:26] <mjg59> Fine
[08:26] <mjg59> I think the 42/43 were nicer, but they're still very competent
[08:26] <Nafallo> kewl. I'll probably end up with that then. thank you so much! :-)
[08:28] <bullgard4> How can I read out the ECDT?
[08:28] <mjg59> acpidump
[08:46] <bullgard4> sudo acpidump outputs DSDT, FACS, FACP, APIC, BOOT, MCFG, SSDT RSDT, RSD, PTR but no ECDT. (http://ubuntuusers.de/paste/15169/)
[08:49] <bullgard4> /proc/acpi/embedded_controller/EC0/info contains: "gpe: 0x17; ports: 0x66, 0x62; use global lock: no".
[09:45] <jetsaredim> is it possible/likely to get an updated version of vmware-server-kernel-modules for gutsy in the near future?
[09:53] <jetsaredim> or - better yet - is there a way for me to be able to build the module for my system?
[09:57] <kylem> hmm. you raise a good question.
[09:57] <jetsaredim> which?
[09:58] <kylem> where did the vmware modules go?
[09:58] <kylem> they're still in the source package, heh.
[09:58] <jetsaredim> there is also bug 120332
[09:58] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 120332 in vmware-player-kernel-2.6.15 "vmware-player-kernel-modules not available for Gutsy kernel 2.6.22 (dup-of: 124775)" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/120332
[09:58] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 124775 in vmware-player-kernel-2.6.15 "No kernel modules for the 2.6.22 kernel" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/124775
[09:58] <kylem> and feisty.
[10:02] <jetsaredim> i know its a good question - that's why i asked it :)
[10:39] <rtg> kylem: Does bug #141298 make any sense to you? These are Intel graphics platforms.
[10:39] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 141298 in dell "Intel video card 8086:2a02 blacklisted, can't run compiz" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141298
[10:41] <bullgard4> I downloaded the DEB program package pmtools and installed it. But 'apropos acpidisasm' cannot find anything suitable. How to diassemble the DSDT?
[10:41] <mjg59> rtg: Yes, that's deliberate
[10:42] <mjg59> 965 doesn't support Xv with composite
[10:42] <rtg> mjg59: I guess I don't understand enough about compiz and Xv.
[10:42] <mjg59> XAA + composite = no video on 965
[10:43] <mjg59> Which is awkward
[10:44] <rtg> mjg59: This is something Jose used to be able to do. e.g., compiz --replace to fix fubar'd compiz after saving his session.
[10:45] <mjg59> Right. Compiz will now not run on 965.
[10:46] <rtg> mjg59: Does that mean no 3D effects?
[10:47] <mjg59> Yes
[10:48] <rtg> mjg59: Can you point me to some info or rationale for this? I need to wrap my head around it 'cause Jose is gonna have a cow.
[10:50] <Keybuk> rtg: i965 doesn't support the necessary pieces for video to work without using EXA
[10:51] <Keybuk> so you can have whizz-bang 3D effects, but no porn
[10:51] <mjg59> rtg: The -intel driver doesn't support accelerated video playback when using a composited desktop unless you're using the EXA acceleration architecture, which we aren't
[10:51] <mjg59> Video playback is more important than desktop effects
[10:52] <rtg> So, this is really a feature :)
[10:52] <mjg59> Yes
[10:58] <JanC> mjg59: I'm sure a computer with a 965 can easily play video with compiz enabled, but without using Xv ?
[10:59] <mjg59> JanC: In HD? No.
[11:00] <JanC> well, most porn isn't in HD I guess?  :P
[11:15] <bdmurray> bug 141082 might need some attention
[11:15] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 141082 in linux-source-2.6.22 "Only one CPU core recognized in Gutsy after updates" [High,Triaged]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141082
[11:19] <JanC> well, at least I can play DVDs on my 1.33 GHz Core Duo laptop with 945 graphics, without using Xv (and while using compiz...)
[11:20] <jetsaredim> i'm running that kernel on my pentium d and i can see both cores
[11:20] <mjg59> Anyway, there's no decent way of autodetecting whether to use Xv or not
[11:20] <rtg> bdmurray: read the followup. He was running the 386 (UP) kernel.
[11:22] <rtg> bdmurray: never mind. brain damage.
[11:22] <bdmurray> rtg: That is one out of 4 commentors
[11:24] <kylem> i suspect he doesn't have an mpbios and as such, without acpi there's no hope of finding the other cpu
[11:25] <mjg59> Yeah. You're not going to get more than one processor on any modern machine unless booting with acpi
[11:26] <bdmurray> What is this commentor's issue? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.22/+bug/141082/comments/5
[11:26] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 141082 in linux-source-2.6.22 "Only one CPU core recognized in Gutsy after updates" [High,Triaged]
[11:27] <kylem> [    5.324000]  CPU #1 not responding - cannot use it.
[11:28] <mjg59> bdmurray: That's clearly a different bug to the filed one
[11:29] <bdmurray> hrm, its too bad comments aren't movable then
[12:34] <mjg59> rtg: I suspect someone's going to have to manage Jose's expectations. Gutsy will not be shipping with compiz on 965.


[01:56] <neuralis> fabbione: we have ganglia packages, please advise if anything else needs to be done with those. cheers.
[06:01] <Psi-Jack> Hmm. Why does php5 depend on apache2-mpm-prefork? Does that mean that php5 is compiled with non-threading in mind? :/
[06:54] <LordHunter317> php isn't thread safe.
[07:25] <Psi-Jack> LordHunter317: Yeah. I noticed. :/
[07:25] <Psi-Jack> Upsets me, too.
[07:26] <Psi-Jack> PHP itself, is threadsafe. The package made for ubuntu, is not.
[07:27] <fabbione> PHP is not thread safe.
[07:27] <fabbione> that's why it is built with prefork
[07:28] <Psi-Jack> PHP5 is perfectly threadsafe. Don't tell me it's not, when I personally know it is.
[07:28] <fabbione> upstream says otherwise according to our maintainers
[07:28] <Psi-Jack> I've run quite reliable systems with PHP5 threaded.
[07:28] <LordHunter317> Psi-Jack: no, it isn't.
[07:29] <LordHunter317> mpre importantly, even if php5 core was, half the modules it ships with aren't.
[07:29] <LordHunter317> so it's effectively not-thread safe.
[07:29] <LordHunter317> it's shipped prefork by /everyone/ with good cause.
[07:30] <Psi-Jack> LordHunter317: Hey. Everything /I/ use in php5, has been reliably thread-safe. Even the gd stuff.
[07:31] <LordHunter317> i think you've just been lucky.
[07:31] <Psi-Jack> I've setup custom fbsd servers with a fully thread-safe base system, with all libs being thread-safe compiled.
[07:31] <LordHunter317> that's impossible.
[07:31] <LordHunter317> not everything shipped is thread-safe.
[07:31] <LordHunter317> you don't know what 'thread-safe' means.
[07:31] <Psi-Jack> Not impossible, no.  Right now, I don't care. For the most part, I
[07:35] <Psi-Jack> I'm just gonna deal with the prefork model, till it pains me to re-compile it. :)
[07:35] <Psi-Jack> But, what's up with the phpmyadmin package for breezy, including /etc/phpmyadmin/config.inc.php, but not seeming to actually read it?
[07:35] <LordHunter317> o_O?  i haven't had that problem on Debian.
[07:36] <LordHunter317> it doesn't really matter.  apache is so slow anyway.
[07:36] <LordHunter317> and last I looked, thread-safe php was slower, not faster.
[07:36] <LordHunter317> the interpreter isn't locked very well.
[07:36] <Psi-Jack> It includes it, and all.. But, if I edit /usr/share/phpmyadmin/config.inc.php's $cfg lines, it bombs out saying that config.inc.php isn't setup. Which means, it's not reading the included /etc/phpmyadmin/config.inc.php. It's getting the blowfish, fine, but not the config.
[07:36] <LordHunter317> though my knowledge isn't recent.
[07:37] <LordHunter317> that is particular.
[07:37] <Psi-Jack> peculier? :)
[07:37] <LordHunter317> it's late.
[07:37] <LordHunter317> i'm worried about more imporant things than my diction.
[07:38] <Psi-Jack> And actually, in my servers, it was 3-6 times faster. :)
[07:38] <Psi-Jack> Paired with ZendOptimizer, at least.
[07:38] <LordHunter317> i don't think I've deployed an application yet where apache was the bottleneck.
[07:38] <LordHunter317> or where, "get a new server" isn't a valid response.
[07:40] <Psi-Jack> Son-of-a.
[07:40] <Psi-Jack> Shoot me!
[07:40] <Psi-Jack> Just fricken shoot me!
[07:40] <LordHunter317> ?
[07:40] <Psi-Jack> All the lines in the stock phpmyadmin package config.inc.php, are commented. heh
[07:41] <LordHunter317> rol.
[07:41] <Psi-Jack> One by fricken one, instead of just using a /* */ method, that actually pisses me off. :)
[07:41] <LordHunter317> it's preferable.
[07:41] <LordHunter317> any developer prefers it.
[07:41] <Psi-Jack> Using // on every fscking line, for 20+ lines?
[07:42] <LordHunter317> yes.
[07:42] <LordHunter317> because it's nestable, and because it lets me selectively uncomment lines.
[07:42] <Psi-Jack> I don't prefer it, and I am a developer. :p
[07:42] <LordHunter317> in most languages /* /* */ */ doesn't work.
[07:46] <Psi-Jack> Grr.
[07:56] <fabbione> neuralis: yes i saw the email. will do on monday hopefully...
[08:00] <Psi-Jack> heh, this is odd..
[08:00] <Psi-Jack> Why does postfix-ldap suggest postfix-mysql and postfix-pgsql? :)
[08:08] <LordHunter317> someone at ubuntu bugged up.
[08:08] <LordHunter317> oh, did you have postfix installed at all before?
[08:09] <LordHunter317> what you may be seeing is postfix-ldap depending on postfix suggseting the last two.
[08:09] <Psi-Jack> Nope. Just now finally setting up this kubuntu server I installed several days ago.
[08:09] <LordHunter317> well, htat's the only way I cfan see that being seen.
[08:09] <LordHunter317> on debian sid, ldap doesn't suggest.
[08:09] <LordHunter317> if it does in ubuntu, it's a bug.
[08:12] <fabbione> the debian and ubuntu packages of postfix are exactly the same
[08:12] <fabbione> the maintainer is the same
[08:12] <fabbione> and there is no discrepancies between the 2
[08:12] <LordHunter317> well then, that's how it was seen.
[08:12] <fabbione> Suggests: is pulled in according to the package manager you are using
[08:13] <fabbione> and it's not installed by default
[08:13] <fabbione> just Suggeted
[08:13] <fabbione> Suggested
[08:13] <fabbione> = no harm
[08:13] <LordHunter317> it fustrates me though that aptitude has no way to pull suggests like it does recommends.
[08:13] <LordHunter317> well, trivially.
[08:14] <LordHunter317> anyway. I'm out.
[09:11] <Psi-Jack> Hmm
[09:12] <Psi-Jack> Anyone got any suggestions for ldap schema layout for virtual-hosting setups with postfix and cyrus-imapd
[09:12] <Psi-Jack> ?
[09:19] <Psi-Jack> Looks like the misc.schema has what I need. Just gotta make proper use of it. heh
[12:17] <mpathy> Hi there..
[12:18] <mpathy> How do I get ubuntu-server, with its nice default configuration, on a dedicated server? When I debootstrap ubuntu, I loose all the nice configuration right? is there another way?
[12:51] <JulienH> Hi all
[12:53] <JulienH> Will webmin package or something like be moved from "universe" to "main" in Dapper ? I'm asking because of security fixes support with the main component
[03:02] <mpathy> are there no wiki pages or sth. like that for ubuntu-server?
[03:03] <mpathy> because I recognized a big interest in a debian-based server-specific distribution, but with newer packages like some apache2 and php5 packages..
[03:04] <mpathy> really sad
[03:05] <spike> what's sad?
[03:06] <spike> mpathy: there are wiki pages related to ubuntu-server around, just not grouped under a macro ubuntu-server page
[03:06] <spike> mpathy: and there's a ubuntu-server forum, check out the topic
[03:07] <mpathy> yeah sure.. but at least I would put a link list online somewhere
[03:08] <mpathy> spike: and a forum is not the greatest tool for this
[03:09] <spike> mpathy: I agree, when I joined I proposed/asked for an server.ubuntu.com but I've been told that wasnt necessary
[03:09] <mpathy> spike: perhaps a directory in the ubuntu wiki would be a start
[03:09] <spike> might try again if more of us will support that
[03:10] <spike> yeah, that too
[03:10] <mpathy> spike: Hmm.. WHO told you that
[03:10] <spike> mpathy: are you subscribed to the list?
[03:10] <spike> mpathy: mailistlist, that is
[03:10] <mpathy> we at the art-team do have a subdomain..
[03:10] <spike> ah
[03:11] <spike> well, I'll just post on the list and see what happens
[03:11] <mpathy> spike: No, but I will. A Mailinglist, additionally being added to GMANE, so that its accessible via a newsreader would be a good start too! :)
[03:12] <spike> 'lo fabbione
[03:13] <fabbione> hi spike
[03:13] <spike> bye :)
[03:26] <ivoks> fabbione: hi
[03:26] <ivoks> fabbione: i just ralized we have ganglia in universe, but outdated
[03:26] <ivoks> realized
[03:27] <fabbione> ivoks: yes.
[03:27] <fabbione> i know
[03:28] <fabbione> that's why we needed the new packages
[03:28] <fabbione> to replace the old ones and move them to main
[03:28] <fabbione> i only need to look at the packages you did before updating tehm
[03:28] <fabbione> them
[03:28] <ivoks> ok
[03:29] <fabbione> ivoks: if you want to look at them and see if you need to merge bits, you have time till tomorrow/tuesday
[03:30] <fabbione> i am sort of overloaded to death
[03:30] <ivoks> fabbione: ok
[03:30] <ivoks> fabbione: take it easy :)
[03:30] <fabbione> i can't
[03:30] <fabbione> we have Feature Freeze next week
[04:25] <Micksa> is there any way at all to permanently change perms in files in /dev?
[04:28] <ubijtsa2> Micksa: you can make udev set them for you when it creates the device nodes
[04:29] <Micksa> ah, I see
[04:29] <ubijtsa2> Micksa: /etc/udev/permissions.rules is what you want to look at
[04:29] <spike> hey ubijtsa2 , how you doin?
[04:29] <ubijtsa2> lo spike
[04:29] <Micksa> do you mean permissions.d?
[04:29] <Micksa> or rules.d?
[04:30] <ubijtsa2> I'm doing alright, DL'ing Kubuntu Flight4 now :)
[04:30] <ubijtsa2> Micksa: permissions.d probably
[04:30] <ubijtsa2> I have a permissions.rules file (Breezy)
[04:31] <spike> me too
[04:31] <ubijtsa2> spike: how's you then?
[04:31] <spike> but guess that's like normal .d stuff, where apps can place their files
[04:31] <spike> there's no reference to it neither in .rules nor in /etc/init.d/udev, tho
[04:32] <spike> maybe it's somewhere else, havent looked to deeply
[04:32] <spike> too*
[04:32] <ubijtsa2> :)
[04:32] <spike> ubijtsa2: I'm coming back home at last!! I was about to kill myself here :)
[04:32] <Micksa> I'll figure it out
[04:33] <Micksa> dammit
[04:33] <Micksa> I can't get a 2.4 uml working in dapper
[04:33] <spike> ubijtsa2: one more week to go, tho :/
[04:33] <Micksa> there appears to be no hope
[04:33] <ubijtsa2> spike: *grin* alrighty :)
[04:33] <Micksa> mslade@boo:~$ linux
[04:33] <Micksa> Killed
[04:33] <ubijtsa2> spike: how'd the cv stuff go?
[04:33] <spike> ubijtsa2: my version worked too :P
[04:33] <ubijtsa2> spike: good stuff :)
[04:34] <spike> and that's actually more than a problem now ehehe, kinda overloaded :)
[04:34] <Micksa> WTF
[04:34] <Micksa> mslade@boo:~$ strace linux
[04:34] <Micksa> execve("/home/mslade/bin/linux", ["linux"] , [/* 41 vars */] ) = 0
[04:34] <Micksa> +++ killed by SIGKILL +++
[04:35] <spike> coffee break, c you in a bit
[05:35] <virogenesis> hi
[05:48] <LordHunter317> hi
[05:52] <virogenesis> after installing postgresql what needs to be done to be to use it would you say?
[05:56] <spike> virogenesis: depends how you intend to use it of course
[05:57] <virogenesis> i'll be using it locally basicaly a webdev box , same machine i'll code on
[05:58] <spike> you could use psql to talk to the db, or install the relevant modules to use it through ur application of choice, ie apache/php if it's a web thingie
[06:00] <spike> virogenesis: what language are you gonna use for web development?
[06:01] <virogenesis> i've got apache and php installed its just with mysql you set a password for root for the db what happens with postgresql?
[06:02] <spike> virogenesis: have you read postgresql documentation?
[06:03] <virogenesis> i guess its alot different from mysql by the sounds of it i should read it i suppose
[06:05] <spike> you suppose right
[06:05] <LordHunter317> you don't.
[06:05] <LordHunter317> unless you're going to use it over the network, you don't set a password.
[06:05] <LordHunter317> ever.
[06:06] <LordHunter317> create an account for whatever use will run the software you're using.
[06:06] <LordHunter317> it checks the credentials of the acessing process.
[06:06] <LordHunter317> so sudo -u postgres psql to start the monitor as the DB admin, and 'CREATE USER me;' so you can acess the DB, then 'CREATE USER www-data;' for Apache.
[06:06] <LordHunter317> then grant permissions as needed.
[06:08] <spike> so all the hosted applications can nicely access each other DB
[06:08] <spike> nice plan
[06:08] <virogenesis> sounds simple enough thanks LordHunter317  answers a few questions i'm gonna read the docs aswell
[06:08] <LordHunter317> spike: no.
[06:08] <LordHunter317> for hosted stuff, you have everything urnning as different users anyway.
[06:08] <LordHunter317> you hvae to.
[06:09] <LordHunter317> it's infinitely more secure for local databases than a password.
[06:09] <spike> not everybody uses suexec or suphp
[06:09] <LordHunter317> moreover, most hosting provdiers ptu databases on other machiens anyway, rendering this irrelevant.
[06:09] <LordHunter317> spike: and if you have multiple users and you don't, you're incompetent.
[06:09] <LordHunter317> pure and simple.
[06:10] <LordHunter317> multiple untrusted users don't share an account, unless it's the anonymous FTP / SAMBA/ etc. account.
[06:10] <LordHunter317> and oyu have more immeidate things to worry about than the database, in that case.
[06:10] <spike> LordHunter317: pure and simple, but not given. point is u cant jump is and say that "user/password" arent of any use assuming all of that
[06:10] <LordHunter317> like <?php system("/bin/rm -rf /var/www/*") ?> and trashing /everyone's/ files
[06:10] <LordHunter317> spike: yes, I can.  see above.
[06:11] <LordHunter317> if you have multiple untrusted users, they run in seperate accounts.
[06:11] <LordHunter317> your security is already gone if you don't do it, so discussing hte database is irrelevant.
[06:11] <LordHunter317> you're overextending yourself.
[06:11] <spike> I'm what?
[06:11] <LordHunter317> overextending.  the database is of no concernt at that point.
[06:11] <LordHunter317> who cares if I can get in the database?  I can delete all their files anyway.
[06:12] <LordHunter317> or trojan their scrips.
[06:12] <LordHunter317> the username/apssword security on the db become instantly irrelevant.
[06:12] <LordHunter317> so I can still get in the DB.
[06:12] <spike> u're missing the point, but whatever, I'm not the one who asked a question
[06:13] <LordHunter317> spike: no, I', not, you are.
[06:13] <LordHunter317> spike: if two "users" share an account as www-data.
[06:13] <LordHunter317> the permissions used to access the database are /irrelevant/.
[06:13] <LordHunter317> be it a process credentials check or username/password for the db, user a can get user b's data and vice-versa.
[06:13] <spike> u're missing the point because u're trying to convince me of something I already know :)
[06:13] <LordHunter317> because they trojan the scripts.
[06:13] <LordHunter317> spike: no, you don't, as you wouldn;'t have said waht you said if you did.
[06:14] <spike> and u're missing the point because u dont answer like that someone who never used pgsql
[06:14] <spike> no, I said that because I didnt assume what you did
[06:14] <spike> that's the difference
[06:14] <LordHunter317> spike: i;m assuming zero.
[06:14] <LordHunter317> what's teh assumption?
[06:14] <spike> u're assuming best practise
[06:14] <LordHunter317> no, I'm not.
[06:14] <LordHunter317> it still holds in the case you mentioned.
[06:15] <LordHunter317> because it's irrelevant.
[06:15] <LordHunter317> as I've said.
[06:15] <LordHunter317> do you need me to set this up and show you?
[06:15] <LordHunter317> i can.
[06:16] <LordHunter317> and I should make a minor correctoin: they can't necessarily trojan the script, but they certainly can read  the DB password out of it.
[06:18] <spike> u should make a lot of minor corrections, like safe_mode and denied access to /bin/rm
[06:18] <LordHunter317> neither of which will stop DB access.
[06:18] <LordHunter317> and safe_mode can be bypassed pretty trivally anyway.
[06:18] <LordHunter317> *oops*
[06:44] <virogenesis> its highly annoying that they talk about the syntax before admining the server bloody weird
[06:45] <LordHunter317> tehy're seperate parts.
[06:46] <LordHunter317> there isn't much admining to do, really.
[06:46] <LordHunter317> it's very much a "it works" or "it doesn't owrk" situation, most of the time.
[06:47] <LordHunter317> the rest is just avoiding some gotchas, like SELECT COUNT(*) and that bulk loading via INSERT or SPROC is really, really slow.
[06:50] <LordHunter317> also, Npgsql sucks but that doesn't matter unless you're doing .NET development.