[02:33] <chrisccoulson> ooh, pretty please say it is still marked as incompatible: https://plus.google.com/u/0/108611501090787019364/posts/MQ6CPFX3jme :)
[02:33]  * chrisccoulson has fingers crossed
[06:28] <pitti> Good morning
[06:28] <pitti> tkamppeter_: ah, nice
[06:33] <didrocks> good morning
[06:34] <pitti> hey didrocks
[06:34] <tkamppeter> pitti, hi
[06:35] <didrocks> good morning pitti
[07:13] <pitti> didrocks: would you mind uploading nux to precise for bug 754565? then we can release the SRU
[07:13] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 754565 in unity "Regression: shift+click on a launcher icon to open a new application instance gone" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/754565
[07:13] <pitti> didrocks: also, do we actually need teh unity task there, too?
[07:13] <didrocks> pitti: hum, but there was no test for it
[07:14] <pitti> didrocks: hm, interesting case -- it went through SRU verification, but no formal test
[07:14] <didrocks> pitti: I mean, no test that will ensure that the quicklist regression won't happen again
[07:14] <pitti> and there's already an upstream release out there
[07:14] <pitti> would be nice to have a test for this, of course
[07:16] <didrocks> pitti: the nux part is already in ubuntu btw, before the final release
[07:16] <didrocks> pitti: the unity part is still not reviewed, because of no test
[07:16] <pitti> didrocks: oh? but we have an SRU for that
[07:16] <didrocks> pitti: the nux part should be rather fix released, fixing
[07:16] <didrocks> hum, really?
[07:16] <pitti>        nux | 1.14.0-0ubuntu1 |       oneiric | source
[07:16] <pitti>        nux | 1.16.0-0ubuntu1 | oneiric-proposed | source
[07:16]  * didrocks just checked dates
[07:16] <pitti> which points to that bug
[07:16] <pitti> but we don't have 1.16 in precise
[07:17] <didrocks> pitti: let me check
[07:18] <didrocks> pitti: ok, so this particular fix for nux is already in oneiric (not proposed)
[07:18] <didrocks> pitti: the milestone says "SRU1" because it was planned to have the unity fix for SRU1
[07:18] <didrocks> which didn't happen
[07:19] <didrocks> pitti: are we ok pushing nux to precise? are the alpha1 iso already done?
[07:19] <pitti> didrocks: so https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nux/1.16.0-0ubuntu1 points to a wrong bug then?
[07:19] <didrocks> pitti: yeah, my script collects "fix committed" regarding the milestone
[07:19] <pitti> didrocks: no, not done yet, but these will most likely be the final images
[07:19] <pitti> so uploading it tomorrow would be better
[07:19] <didrocks> pitti: as upstream didn't set it to "fix released", it's been collected again, fixing it
[07:19] <pitti> didrocks: so should I remove 1.16 from oneiric-proposed then?
[07:20]  * pitti doesn't know what to do with this then
[07:20] <didrocks> pitti: no, 1.16 fixes some rendering issues that are interested (and a potential crash)
[07:21] <didrocks> pitti: I think it's been tested for long enough in -proposed to be pushed in both oneiric and precise
[07:21] <pitti> ok; right, a lot of people regression-tested it by merely using it for a long time
[07:21] <didrocks> pitti: sorry for the confusion, I was thinking about another fix the "first time quicklist isn't active", which is a hot topic
[07:22] <didrocks> pitti: yeah, that's why I think it's fine for this one
[07:22] <didrocks> pitti: but, then, we are blocking any SRU fix to have usptream tests
[07:22] <didrocks> (as we need to push in precise)
[07:22] <didrocks> pitti: should I push something like 1.16.0-0ubuntu2 in precise? (it's still the old uploads when I though you were copying the package)
[07:23] <pitti> yes, that works
[07:23] <didrocks> ok, will do tomorrow then!
[07:23] <pitti> merci!
[07:23] <didrocks> de rien :)
[08:44] <rodrigo_> morning
[08:55] <didrocks> good morning rodrigo_
[08:56] <rodrigo_> hi didrocks
[09:00] <pitti> hey rodrigo_, how are you?
[09:00] <rodrigo_> hi pitti
[09:16] <seb128> hey
[09:23] <pitti> bonjour seb128
[09:23] <seb128> hey pitti, how are you?
[09:24] <pitti> seb128: quite fine, thanks! was happy that nothing blew up over the night
[09:24] <seb128> ;-)
[09:24] <pitti> bug 898040 really sucks, but nothing we can fix for a1
[09:24] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 898040 in ubiquity "Ubiquity crashed while installing Lubuntu Precise (dup-of: 894768)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/898040
[09:24] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 894768 in linux "Installation randomly fails with: File "/usr/lib/ubiquity/ubiquity/install_misc.py", line 621, in copy_file targetfh.write(buf) IOError: [Errno 22] Invalid argument " [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/894768
[09:24] <seb128> pitti, yeah, I see that you are fighting with this one since yesterday
[09:25] <seb128> is that a kernel bug then?
[09:25] <pitti> actually already way before that :)  yes, kernel bug
[09:29] <didrocks> salut seb128
[09:29] <seb128> lut didrocks, ca va ?
[09:30] <didrocks> seb128: ça va ça va, et toi?
[09:30] <seb128> ca va bien ;-)
[09:30] <didrocks> needing a reboot, brb
[09:33] <pitti> seb128: can you think of any visible change in precise that we sohuld mention for a1?
[09:33] <pitti> I have rhythmbox, apport crash reporting, and admin->sudo now
[09:35] <seb128> pitti, let me think, but I guess out of those you mentioned no, we had no dx uploads at all, no GNOME update, no lightdm update
[09:35] <pitti> right
[09:35] <pitti> just loads of fixes
[09:35] <pitti> seb128: ok, thanks
[09:35] <seb128> yw
[09:44] <seb128> RAOF, we are in 2011 ;-) (your new unity tests are copyrighted 2010 ;-)
[09:47] <pitti> we should _so_ write tests for correct copyright headers!
[09:48] <pitti> RAOF: but if you still haven't adapted to 2011, don't bother any more; start with 2012 right away :)
[09:51] <Sweetshark> pitti: we had tests like that in OpenOffice.org once. They broke whenever you changed something (even the copyright year) ....
[09:52] <Sweetshark> pitti: luckily, we will never use those tests again in LO 'officially'. even better we use the two other test suites that actually make sense by now.
[09:54] <pitti> bbl
[10:07] <zyga> does anyone know how to stop automount on oneiric?
[10:23] <seb128> doh, I can see the rickspencer3's whip on us :p
[10:23] <rickspencer3> hi seb128 ;)
[10:23] <rickspencer3> no whip cracking
[10:23] <seb128> hey rickspencer3 ;-)
[10:28] <pitti> hey rickspencer3
[10:28] <rickspencer3> hiya pitti
[10:29] <pitti> oh, rickspencer3 assigning a bunch of bugs :)
[10:29] <rickspencer3> sorry pitti
[10:29] <rickspencer3> I figured you weren't busy enough
[10:30] <pitti> rickspencer3: no need to be sorry, appreciated
[10:33] <rickspencer3> hmmm?
[10:34] <rickspencer3> pitti, seb128 for a bug in indicator-power ... who do I assign that to?
[10:34] <rickspencer3> Dx Team, tedg, someone else?
[10:34] <seb128> rickspencer3, ted
[10:35] <pitti> rickspencer3: jjardon seems to do most of the commits
[10:35] <seb128> pitti, he stopped contracting for dx around UDS
[10:35] <seb128> so ted is a better choice
[10:35] <seb128> he will dispatch if needed
[10:35] <seb128> I think
[10:35] <pitti> ah
[10:36] <seb128> rickspencer3, it's that the bug you pointd on #ayatana you can probably assign it to TheMuso
[10:36] <rickspencer3> seb128, I did both ;)
[10:37] <seb128> he fixed a few of the "indicators don't have a11y description" bugs already I think
[11:11] <pitti> rickspencer3: I mangled bug 891688 enough now; it's mostly cosmetical, so I just debugged it, sent it to upstream, and unassigned
[11:11] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 891688 in util-linux "mount -o remount always appends options to /etc/mtab even if they already exist" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/891688
[11:11] <rickspencer3> thanks pitt
[11:11] <rickspencer3> pitti, thanks pitti ;)
[11:38] <seb128> pitti, the gnome-control-center datetime panel under unity doesn't use libgweather (just for info)
[11:38] <pitti> seb128: oh, what does it use then?
[11:38] <seb128> pitti, it does use http://geoip.ubuntu.com
[11:38] <seb128> i.e same as ubiquity
[11:39] <pitti> seb128: so it ships a snapshot of that database then?
[11:39] <seb128> pitti, no, you need to be online for it to work I think
[11:39] <seb128> he does online queries
[11:39] <pitti> I thought I changed my time zone in the plane back then
[11:39] <seb128> well you probably add different tz defined and stored and switched between those?
[11:40] <seb128> the completion thing is using geoip for sure, I've been looking at some of the bug with mterry previous cycle
[11:40] <pitti> I added Orlando on the flight there
[11:40] <seb128> but maybe they do cache some of the datas
[11:41] <seb128> pitti, well I'm unsure about the map
[11:41] <seb128> pitti, but the "add a location" in the second tab is using the geoip stuff
[11:41] <seb128> I would guess that the text entry on the first tab does the same
[11:42] <seb128> pitti, what I'm sure is that it doesn't use libgweather, we had that discussion when they designed the datetime stuff, they prefered to use the geoip database
[11:43] <pitti> seb128: ok, thanks for letting me know
[11:43] <seb128> well that was a "for info" in any case, nothing important
[11:43] <seb128> yw ;-)
[12:24] <rodrigo_> mvo, https://code.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/system-service/fix-877088/+merge/83932
[12:32] <didrocks> hum, bzr regressed tarmac badly in precise
[12:32] <didrocks> API changes it seems
[12:33]  * didrocks had to reinstall the older bzr for now
[12:38] <mvo> rodrigo_: thanks a bunch! I check it out (in a phnecall currently)
[12:38] <rodrigo_> mvo, ok, no hurry, moving to other stuff now, so take your time :)
[12:38] <mvo> ok
[12:59]  * rodrigo_ lunch, bbl
[13:23] <seif> didrocks, which gedit will u guys be using
[13:23] <seif> ?
[13:38] <didrocks> seif: 3.2 probably
[13:38] <didrocks> we try to stay on a stable platform for the LTS
[13:54] <seif> didrocks, hmmmmmm
[13:54] <seif> didrocks, my latest plugin (the dash) works against trunk
[13:55] <seif> did not try against 3.2
[13:55] <seif> although wait
[13:55] <seif> i am using 3.2
[13:55] <seif> shit
[13:55] <seif> hehehe
[13:55] <seif> its working
[13:55] <seif> anyhow it went upstream to 3.3 now
[13:58] <didrocks> seif: nice! :)
[13:58] <didrocks> seif: it's not the datasource right, it's a independent plugin?
[14:01] <seif> yeah
[14:01] <seif> the datasource is in gedit
[14:01] <seif> its a softdependency
[14:01] <seif> just compile gedit against zeitgeist
[14:01] <seif> :)
[14:15] <didrocks> yeah, that's what we have :)
[14:15] <didrocks> seif: not quite sure how to get your dashboard though
[14:17] <didrocks> seif: just opening gedit doesn't give me anything weirdly, there
[14:19] <seif> didrocks, there is a plugin
[14:19] <seif> wait
[14:19] <seif> let me pull it for you
[14:19] <didrocks> seif: indeed, the datasource one
[14:42] <dobey> desrt: ping; can you accept my joining ~upstream on launchpad? :)
[14:43] <desrt> dobey: granted :)
[14:43] <dobey> thanks
[14:46] <dobey> huzzah; now lp:glib points at the right thing and isn't 2.5 years old
[14:47] <desrt> oh.  this problem again.
[14:48] <pedro_> kenvandine, when you have some time, may you please have a look to bug 304889 ?
[14:48] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 304889 in telepathy-idle "Does not use system proxy settings" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/304889
[14:48] <kenvandine> pedro_, sure
[14:48] <pedro_> kenvandine, thanks!
[15:17] <dobey> can we ship gnome 2.32 as the version for precise?
[15:18] <seb128> dobey, no?
[15:22] <desrt> dobey: I LOVE IT
[15:22] <dobey> desrt: gnome 2.32?
[15:22] <desrt> the idea of shipping it for precise
[15:23] <dobey> stable platform where things actually work, ftw.
[15:24] <desrt> gnome needs to shake things up from time to time to keep y'all on your feet
[15:24] <desrt> can you blame us?
[15:24] <dobey> upstreams being inconsiderate pain in my side, ftl.
[15:27] <mdeslaur> rodrigo_: sorry about that
[15:28] <rodrigo_> mdeslaur, no problem :)
[15:28] <mdeslaur> rodrigo_: I apparently lack caffeine this morning :P
[15:28] <rodrigo_> :D
[15:35] <seb128> seif, didrocks: gedit version> that's not really decided, we default to stay on 3.2 but we said we would visit mid-cycle standalone softwares to see which ones we would benefit from upgrading and pick a few useful ones most like
[15:35] <seb128> seif, didrocks: things like eog, gedit, etc are good candidates for things we might be able to upgrade if there is a good reason to do so
[15:36] <seif> there are no big canges from 3.2 to 3.4
[15:37] <seif> didrocks, do u use gedit urself
[15:37] <seif> ?
[15:38] <seif> didrocks, git@github.com:seiflotfy/gedit-dashboard.git
[15:38] <seif> use the dashbaor dbranch
[15:38] <seif> my plgun is in there
[15:38] <seb128> seif, well, we are waiting to see what comes in the cycle
[15:38] <seif> my plugin :P
[15:38] <dobey> seif: get a bigger keyboard, or smaller fingers ;)
[15:38] <seif> it should be pushed upstream today
[15:39] <didrocks> seb128: hum, but this is not in the gedit we have,  isn't it? so let's wait to see if we upgrade :)
[15:39] <seif> dobey, will do
[15:39] <seb128> seif, like when gtk gets the shell menu thing application will start using the api, we need to see how that fits with unity, we need also to make sure we will upgrade gtk before considering gedit
[15:39] <seif> oki doki
[15:39] <seif> my patch works on 3.2 though
[15:39] <seif> :P
[15:39] <seb128> didrocks, right, I was just replying to "<didrocks> seif: 3.2 probably"
[15:39] <seif> i have gedit 3.2 installed and i use my plugin with it
[15:39] <seif> dobey, sir yes sir
[15:39] <seb128> didrocks, seif: well in this case it seems it's easier to just backport the patch since that should work fine
[15:40] <seif> yeppers
[15:40] <seif> :)
[15:55] <nessita> hello everyone! /me is back from holidays :-)
[15:55] <nessita> seb128: hi there :-) is there anything else I need to do to bug #891192?
[15:56] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 891192 in ubuntu "Please sponsor the proposed qt4reactor packaging branch" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/891192
[15:57] <didrocks> hey nessita!
[15:57] <nessita> hey didrocks! how is it going?
[15:58] <seb128> hey nessita
[15:58] <didrocks> nessita: I'm fine, thanks. Yourself? how were your holidays?
[15:58] <seb128> nessita, no, you just need somebody motivated to do review and sponsoring, I've to admit I stayed away from it because it has qt in the name and I've no clue about qt
[15:59] <nessita> seb128: but the one doing the review has to review the source code? I though the review was about packaging only
[16:00] <seb128> nessita, no, but better to make sure that the stuff build and works as it should ;-)
[16:00] <nessita> didrocks: my holidays were great! I'm very happy I took them, I realized I needed them more that I thought
[16:00] <nessita> seb128: I see. Anyone in particular you recommend for me to chase? :-)
[16:00] <didrocks> nice :)
[16:07] <seb128> nessita, try mdeslaur maybe, he's patch pilot today
[16:07] <seb128> nessita<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[16:08] <seb128> nessita, or mterry tomorrow if that doesn't work with mdeslaur today
[16:09] <nessita> seb128: thanks :-)
[16:09] <seb128> nessita, yw ;-)
[16:40] <seb128> kenvandine, hey, did you see bug #886056?
[16:40] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 886056 in empathy "Cannot respond to friendship requests from Empathy" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/886056
[16:43] <kenvandine> yup
[16:44] <kenvandine> i am going to add that
[16:45] <kenvandine> i think friday i am going to spend hacking on tp-indicator, so probably have it done then
[16:48] <lool> Hey there
[16:49] <lool> gnome-desktop FTBFSes on armhf due to missing libs on the linker command:
[16:49] <lool> .libs/gnome-desktop-thumbnail.o: In function `gnome_desktop_thumbnail_factory_generate_thumbnail':
[16:49] <lool> /build/buildd/gnome-desktop-2.32.1/libgnome-desktop/gnome-desktop-thumbnail.c:881: undefined reference to `floor'
[16:50] <lool> we have a 2.x source package, but there are 3.x sources available, are these not ok to include in Ubuntu for some reason?  (I know we're in freeze of course)
[16:53] <lool> Ok, I see there's a gnome-desktop3 source; will update the gnome-desktop watch file
[16:54] <micahg> lool: that's due to this change: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2011-August/msg00236.html
[16:55] <lool> Likely indeed
[16:56] <seb128> kenvandine, thanks, can you comment on the bug saying you will work on it?
[16:56] <lool> still some sources to port from libgnome-desktop-dev
[16:56] <lool> banshee gnome-desktop-sharp2 gnome-launch-box gnome-mag gnome-python-desktop icewm libdesktop-agnostic libslab mistelix unity
[16:56] <lool> surprized about unity though
[16:56] <seb128> lool, is there any reason armhf is any different from other archs there or did we just didn't test rebuild since?
[16:56] <seb128> lool, gnome-desktop is gtk2, gnome-desktop3 is gtk3
[16:56] <lool> seb128: I don't think it differs on this, probably would appear on other arches
[16:57] <seb128> lool, the world is not going to be ported to gtk3 in a year, I guess we will keep both for a while ;-)
[16:57] <lool> seb128: Yup; the number of source packages to port is relatively small it seems
[16:58] <seb128> lool, well, one is enough, you probably remember gtk1 and gnucash ;-)
[16:58] <lool> haha
[16:58] <lool> seb128: unity is staying gtk2 for LTS?
[16:58] <seb128> lool, no, unity is gtk3 since oneiric
[16:58] <mdeslaur> @pilot out
[16:59] <seb128> lool, what keep gtk2 on the CD is basically firefox and libreoffice (and some small stuff like openssh, xdg-user-dirs, etc)
[16:59] <mdeslaur> gah
[16:59] <seb128> mdeslaur, wrong channel :p
[16:59] <mdeslaur> seb128: yes :P
[16:59] <seb128> mdeslaur, did you help nessita btw? ;-)
[16:59] <mdeslaur> seb128: I took a look, but I'm not sure about the licensing issue there.
[17:00] <nessita> mdeslaur: what do you mean?
[17:00] <lool> seb128: Hmm unity bdeps on both libgnome-desktop-dev, and libgnom-desktop-3-dev, ?
[17:01] <mdeslaur> nessita: I'm not enough of a licensing expert, someone will need to see if we can ship qt4reactor which is MIT with twisted which is MIT and pyqt which is GPL
[17:01] <seb128> lool, seems like a packaging bug, blame didrocks :p
[17:01]  * lool phones didrocks immediately
[17:02] <seb128> ;-)
[17:02] <didrocks> what what? :)
[17:02]  * didrocks backlogs
[17:02] <seb128> didrocks, you have a call
[17:02] <lool> didrocks: unity bdeps on both libgnome-desktop-dev, and libgnom-desktop-3-dev,
[17:02] <seb128> didrocks, pick up the phone, it's lool, he's unhappy ;-)
[17:02] <nessita> mdeslaur: any idea who can know about that?
[17:02] <didrocks> lool: oh, how rude! :)
[17:02]  * didrocks checks
[17:03] <mdeslaur> nessita: I was just trying to figure that out :)
[17:03] <mdeslaur> nessita: I was told to ask in #ubuntu-release
[17:03] <pitti> good night everyone!
[17:03] <nessita> mdeslaur: joining so I can learn as well :-)
[17:03] <didrocks> hum hum, indeed
[17:03] <seb128> 'night pitti
[17:03] <nessita> bye pitti!
[17:03] <didrocks> pitti: have a good night pitti :)
[17:04] <didrocks> lool: ok, fixed :)
[17:05] <lool> didrocks: thanks  :-)
[17:06] <didrocks> lool: yw, but 2 is better than none, isn't it? :)
[17:07] <seb128>  /msg didrocks, the trick to get lool back doing desktop work is working
[17:07] <seb128> ups :p
[17:07] <lool> hehe
[17:07] <didrocks> seb128: writing to me in english? hard to believe :p
[17:07] <seb128> ;-)
[17:49] <micahg> can someone look into this please: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/897952, I'm happy to provide more info
[17:49] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 897952 in dbus "dbus-daemon uses a large amount of CPU" [Undecided,New]
[17:50] <micahg> between that an zeigeist, I'm running at least 1 CPU all the time
[17:50] <micahg> s/CPU.core/
[17:54] <didrocks> have a good night everyone!
[17:58] <seb128> micahg, can you use dbus-monitor to see what is spamming the bus?
[17:59] <seb128> micahg, could be bug #774071 (indicator-datime)
[17:59] <micahg> checking
[17:59] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 774071 in indicator-datetime "Indicator-datetime-service renders 100% CPU usage" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/774071
[17:59] <seb128> like if that's that usually killing indicator-datetime stop the issue
[18:03] <lool> I pushed a gnome-desktop FTBFS fix to the bzr branch for after A1
[18:03] <seb128> lool, thanks
[18:04] <dobey> btw, is glib 2.31 coming in anytime soon, or are we sticking on 2.30 for P?
[18:04] <seb128> dobey, it will come after a1
[18:05] <dobey> seb128: darn. there will be a LOT of FTBFS at that point then
[18:05] <seb128> dobey, why?
[18:05] <dobey> seb128: it removes some API that was deprecated
[18:05] <seb128> no way
[18:05] <dobey> particularly, g_thread_init
[18:06] <seb128> you probably build with G_DISABLE_DEPRECATED?
[18:07] <dobey> seb128: no, there's no g_thrad_init in http://git.gnome.org/browse/glib/tree/glib/gthread.h
[18:07] <micahg> seb128: I don't have indicator-datetime running, still looking at dbus-monitor
[18:07] <seb128> dobey, it's in glib/deprecated/etc/...
[18:08] <seb128> dobey, they moved the included in a deprecated dir
[18:08] <dobey> oh
[18:09] <dobey> ok
[18:16] <micahg> seb128: seems to be a lot of calls to the volume monitor
[18:16] <seb128> who is doing those?
[18:16] <seb128> do you use gnome-system-monitor or nautilus?
[18:16] <seb128> nautilus --quit?
[18:17] <micahg> did that, no help, how do I decode stuff like :1.93
[18:18] <seb128> oh
[18:18] <seb128> did you dbus-monitor --session?
[18:19] <micahg> nope :)
[18:19] <seb128> try that one rather, it's usually the session bus that gets spammed
[18:19] <seb128> to find what has the id, run d-feet
[18:20] <seb128> they are listed on the left, if you select it you have the binary on the right
[18:21] <micahg> seb128: zeitgeist
[18:21] <seb128> there you go ;-)
[18:21] <seb128> it's mhr3's fault! or seif's or kamstrup's one
[18:21] <seb128> micahg, what sort of requests does it do?
[18:22] <seb128> dbus-monitor should tell you
[18:22] <micahg> yep, killing zeitgeist ended the assault on my CPU :)
[18:23] <mhr3> micahg, what version is that?
[18:23] <micahg> seems to be lots of calls for volume monitor and vfs
[18:23] <micahg> 0.8.99~alpha1-1ubuntu2
[18:23] <mhr3> micahg, dbus-monitor/bustle log would be extremely useful
[18:23] <mhr3> +new bug opened with those :)
[18:25] <micahg> mhr3: will do, thanks
[18:30] <seb128> chrisccoulson, m_conley: do you know how to debug the tb notifications? the "you received <nn> new email" notify-osd bubbles often have a crazy counter, like I receive 5 email and the bubble states I received 19639 ones
[18:30] <seb128> it's correct at some other times, so it's not always off count
[18:30] <m_conley> seb128: holy smokes that's a big count
[18:30] <seb128> well the number seems random
[18:30] <m_conley> seb128: I think chrisccoulson knows that code a bit better...
[18:30] <seb128> just got a 60k one ;-)
[18:31] <seb128> m_conley, he said he never looked at the notification code the other day
[18:31] <m_conley> seb128: oh, wait, hold on
[18:31] <seb128> *shrug*, I guess none of you know that code then ;-)
[18:31] <m_conley> seb128: you're talking about libnotify - sorry, was confusing that with Messaging Menu
[18:31] <seb128> yeah
[18:31] <m_conley> seb128: yes, I sort of know that code - though it's been a few months
[18:32] <m_conley> seb128: actually, there's a guy working on fixing up our notifications right now - his name is irving, and you can find him in #maildev on irc.mozilla.org.
[18:32] <seb128> is there any debug info I can get that would be useful for a bug report? I guess that a bug "the count in the bubble is crazy" wouldn't be very useful by itself
[18:33] <m_conley> seb128: unforunately, no - that code isn't rigged for debugging / logging.  :/
[18:39] <micahg> mhr3: bustle-dbus-monitor output is > 60MB already
[18:39] <mhr3> micahg, no need to run it for 5 minutes :)
[18:39] <micahg> mhr3: ah, I thought I had to wait for it to complete
[18:40] <mhr3> micahg, nope, you just ctrl+c it after a couple of seconds
[18:41] <seb128> micahg, it's like dbus-monitor, it will never complete, it just keeps logging while it's running ;-)
[18:42] <mhr3> micahg, out of curiosity do you have any unusual devices connected to your computer?
[18:42] <micahg> seb128: right, I finally realized that
[18:42] <micahg> mhr3: nope, just headphones ATM
[18:43] <mhr3> micahg, interesting, also the cpu is consistently 100% when you run zg?
[18:44] <seb128> mhr3, it seems zg spam the bus enough that dbus is using 100% cpu :p
[18:44] <mhr3> seb128, didn't i say that the new zg is actually a stress test for dbus-daemon? :)
[18:45] <seb128> ;-)
[18:45] <seb128> mhr3, it's a feature right?
[18:45] <micahg> mhr3: one core is
[18:46] <micahg> 20% zeitgeist/80%dbus-daemon
[18:46] <micahg> bug 898305
[18:46] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 898305 in zeitgeist "zeitgeist-daemon is flooding dbus" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/898305
[18:47] <seb128> lol
[18:47] <seb128> mhr3, does that mean that zg efficiency is higher than the dbus one? ;-)
[18:48] <seb128> like it's consuming less than dbus for the same trafic? ;-)
[18:48] <micahg> it's 1:5 actually :)
[18:48] <mhr3> seb128, sure, it's all kinds of awesome ;P
[18:51] <mhr3> micahg, any chance to find out what process owns :1.158?
[18:51] <micahg> mhr3: sure
[18:52] <micahg> are these IDs consistent across reboots?
[18:53] <mhr3> nope
[18:53] <micahg> ugh, what about session log out?
[18:53] <mhr3> no
[18:53] <micahg> too late then :)
[18:54] <mhr3> if the process died meanwhile the answer is also "no"
[18:55] <micahg> would you like another output file?
[18:56] <seb128> the id of the clients should have changed if they didn't restart no?
[18:59] <mhr3> micahg, one more thing, does zg output something if you run it via terminal?
[18:59] <micahg> yes
[18:59] <mhr3> like constantly something?
[19:00] <micahg> no, just something at startup ~20 lines
[19:00] <micahg> I can pastebin or attach to the bug
[19:01] <mhr3> micahg, pastebin pls
[19:01] <mhr3> there probably won't be anything interesting in that case...
[19:01] <mhr3> seb128, i'm afraid it's an issue deeper in the stack
[19:02] <micahg> http://paste.ubuntu.com/755241/
[19:02] <mhr3> seb128, apps using GVolumeMonitor coming to mind?
[19:03] <mhr3> yea, nothing interesting really
[19:09] <lool> is there a gtk3 / gnome3 gtk2-engines?
[19:10] <seif> micahg, can u print out dbus-monitor stuff for zeitgeist
[19:10] <seif> ?
[19:10] <seif> micahg, what apps do u have open right now
[19:10] <micahg> seif: if you tell me how :)
[19:11] <micahg> seif: unity-3d, d-feet, xfce4-terminal
[19:12] <nessita> mdeslaur: I had to reboot at some point, did you have any feedback re: qt4reactor package/licensing?
[19:12] <mdeslaur> nessita: no, no feedback yet about licensing
[19:13] <mdeslaur> nessita: i wouldn't worry too much about it though, licensing is probably ok
[19:13] <mdeslaur> nessita: I didn't get past that step, could you ask the next patch pilot to actually look at your package?
[19:14] <nessita> mdeslaur: I will, tomorrow. Thanks :-) (I'm worried since we're kinda blocked on that package in order to package some QT stuff)
[19:15] <seif> mhr3, what is the best dbus-monitor command to monitor all zeitgeist traffic
[19:15] <seif> ?
[19:15] <mdeslaur> nessita: twisted didn't want to bundle it because of licensing issues, but it may be ok since it's in a separate package but someone better qualified than me should make that decision
[19:16] <nessita> mdeslaur: right, thanks!
[19:17] <seif>      micahg r u running zeitgeist right now?
[19:17] <micahg> yes
[19:17] <seif> ok good
[19:23] <seif> micahg,                                     dbus-monitor "interface='org.gnome.zeitgeist.Monitor'"
[19:23] <seif> type that into a terminal and give me the output in 5 minutes
[19:23] <seif> (is zeitgeist still overusing ur cpu?)
[19:23] <micahg> yes, it's constant
[19:25] <seif> did u run the command i told you
[19:25] <micahg> it's running now, only one thing so far
[19:25] <seif> hmmmmmmmmmmmm
[19:26] <seif> hmmmmmmmm
[19:26] <seif> micahg, can u do killall zeitgeist-datahub
[19:26] <micahg> no change except for a little more debug output
[19:27] <seif> fuck
[19:27] <seif> i fear unity could be requesting constantly from zeitgeist
[19:27] <seif> -.-
[19:29] <seif> micahg, try                                dbus-monitor "interface='org.gnome.zeitgeist.Log'"
[19:29] <seif> if its going batshit crazy then we can trace it from here
[19:30] <micahg> seif: same issue with Xfce
[19:31] <micahg> and only 1 thing with that second dbus-monitor query
[19:32] <seif> micahg, what do u mean by same issue with xfce
[19:32] <seif> ?
[19:33] <micahg> seif: I get the same CPU spike with xfce, it's not just with uniyt
[19:33] <micahg> *unity
[19:34] <seif> micahg, ok one more thing 1) killall zeitgeist-daemon   2)  cp -r .local/share/zeitgeist to .local/share/zeitgeist-backup 3) zeitgeist-daemon --replace
[19:35] <mhr3> micahg, pls run just `python -c "from gi.repository import Gio, GLib; ml = GLib.MainLoop(); vm = Gio.VolumeMonitor.get(); print vm.get_volumes(); ml.run()"`
[19:35] <mhr3> and see if it uses 100% cpu
[19:37] <micahg> mhr3: no
[19:37] <micahg> seif: it's no longer eating up CPU
[19:39] <mhr3> micahg, so my command actually fixed it? :)
[19:39] <micahg> mhr3: no, I think it's seif
[19:39] <seb128> lool, no
[19:39] <mhr3> micahg, make sure by restarting session :)
[19:40] <micahg> was just going to ask if I could at this point
[19:40] <seb128> lool, well not by default for gtk, we have one (unico) for our theme
[19:40] <seb128> lool, gtk is only using css theming
[19:41] <lool> seb128: I see there are newer GNOME upstream releases of it, that's why I was wondering
[19:41] <micahg> mhr3: heh, it's back :)
[19:41] <mhr3> micahg, try my cmd
[19:41] <lool> seb128: I guess I'll just backport the FTBFS fix for gtk2-engines rather than move to the latest one
[19:41] <seb128> lool, no
[19:41] <seb128> lool, the theming got totally reworked in gtk3
[19:41] <seb128> lool, they moved from their old engine and gtkrc to css themin
[19:42] <seb128> theming
[19:42] <lool> there's a 2.91 gtk-engines upstream http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/gtk-engines/2.91/
[19:42] <micahg> mhr3: nope, still high
[19:42] <seb128> lool, the goal I think is to not need engines but give enough flexibility over css
[19:42] <seb128> lool, right, that's around the time they landed the css work ;-)
[19:42] <lool> 2.90.3 says  - Port to GTK+ 2.90 (thanks to Bastien Nocera and others)
[19:42] <seb128> lool, which deprecated the need for it
[19:43] <lool> ok, might be worth packaging the latest gtk2 version of it I guess
[19:43] <mhr3> micahg, :(
[19:43] <seb128> lool, well, I think we have the current one
[19:43] <seb128> lool, 2.91 was for gtk3 at a time where gtk3 didn't have css
[19:44] <seif> micahg, what did i miss
[19:44] <seif> mhr3, what did i miss
[19:44] <mhr3> seif, the universe almost collapsed
[19:44] <micahg> seif: your thing fixed it for the session only, when I logged out and back in, I had the same issue
[19:44] <seif> what why
[19:45] <mhr3> micahg, can i get you to attach also a half-second of dbus-monitor to the bug?
[19:45] <seif> micahg, ok then do the same thing but instead of restarting zeitgeist log in and out again or restart the session
[19:45] <micahg> straight dbus-monitor?
[19:45] <mhr3> micahg, yep
[19:47] <seif> micahg, today i will have nightmares if we dont know what the problem is
[19:47] <seif> lol
[19:48] <mhr3> micahg, your night is gonna suck then :)
[19:49] <micahg> seif: nope, session restart brings it back
[19:49] <seif> that makes no sense -.-
[19:50] <seif> mhr3, where do we try to access the volumes
[19:50] <mhr3> seif, sorry that was for you ^^
[19:50] <lool> seb128: Ok, so 2.9x ones are useless now and we'll keep it as it is until gtk2 dies?
[19:50] <seb128> lool, that's my understanding yes
[19:51] <lool> Ok
[19:51] <micahg> which is at least 2 more years :)
[19:52] <mhr3> lool, so how often people accidentally ping you when they laugh? :)
[19:52] <micahg> mhr3: attached
[19:53] <mhr3> micahg, thx
[19:53] <lool> That happens more often than for mhr3
[19:53] <mhr3> lool, i can imagine :)
[19:53] <seb128> mhr3, oh, you should ask how often people ping him when they want to know about the libreoffice online version :p
[19:53] <seif> micahg, can u do "find / -name 'zeitgeist'" or me
[19:53] <seb128> lool, I'm disappointed that googling for "lool" return libreoffice stuff before you btw!
[19:54] <lool> seriously
[19:54] <lool> they've displaced me
[19:54] <lool> I used to be one the first page of results for lool -- rightfully so!
[19:54] <lool> but now everyone says lool for lol
[19:54] <lool> these young people
[19:55] <seb128> yeah, you should just sue them for it!
[19:55] <lool> I'll install one of these high-pitch noise producer on my webpage
[19:56] <seb128> ;-)
[20:00] <seb128> 'night
[20:01] <micahg> seif: did you want all the permission denied entries as well?
[20:02] <mhr3> micahg, try something crazy - eject the cd you have in your cd drive :)
[20:02] <RainCT> CD drive? What's that?
[20:02] <micahg> mhr3: heh, that did it :)
[20:02] <mhr3> RainCT, something we didn't account for when developing zeitgeist ^^
[20:03] <RainCT> mhr3: I don't even have one :P
[20:03] <mhr3> let me try if i can reproduce this
[20:03] <micahg> ooh, it's so quiet now :)
[20:03] <seif> micahg, wont hurt
[20:03] <micahg> seif: we found the issue, it's the CD in the drive
[20:04] <seif> micahg, lol
[20:04] <mhr3> micahg, that was audio cd right?
[20:04] <micahg> mhr3: indeed
[20:05] <mhr3> micahg, was it playing or something, or just sitting there?
[20:05] <micahg> just sitting there AFAIk
[20:06] <seif> mhr3, the storagem onitor is not implmented yet
[20:06] <seif> what is the problem
[20:06] <mhr3> micahg, well there's some odd interaction between gvfs and zg, but i have no idea why, we're not trying to read it
[20:07] <seif> the only thing though would try that is the storage-monitor.py
[20:07] <RainCT> seif: Bluebird
[20:08] <RainCT> seif: I did implement USB and stuff, just network was missing iirc
[20:09] <mhr3> seif, if you have audio cd, try to reproduce it
[20:09] <mhr3> i dont have any here
[20:12] <RainCT> mhr3: can't reproduce it with an external DVD reader
[20:13] <seif> mhr3, what do u think the issue is
[20:24] <lool> I've commited a FTBFS fix for gtk2-engines in lp:~ubuntu-desktop/gtk2-engines/ubuntu for upload after A1
[21:17] <chrisccoulson> hi m_conley and seb128
[21:17] <chrisccoulson> sorry, went out to the christmas market :)
[22:03] <chrisccoulson> bah, the tabbar is totally broken in todays firefox nightly
[22:04] <chrisccoulson> i suppose that's not too bad, having not had a real problem for several months
[22:15] <AlanBell> anyone know about the global menu?
[22:15] <AlanBell> and indicators for that matter
[22:20] <JanC> AlanBell: know what about hem?
[22:22] <TheMuso> AlanBell: Yes, what about them?
[22:25] <AlanBell> just wondering about them all being tickboxes when read by orca
[22:26] <AlanBell> everything is "$name tickbox not ticked"
[22:32] <TheMuso> AlanBell: I'm aware of it, and I'm on it.
[22:32] <TheMuso> AlanBell: Fixing that as part of my work to allow for extra info to be spoken about network names in network-manager etc.
[22:35] <AlanBell> cool, thanks
[22:37] <TheMuso> np


[02:34] <jdeslip> Ya, I think I have to work too :(
[04:13] <dbb> hello- I have ubuntu 10.10, and an application I run just posted a nice notification of an upgrade. I could swear it had a link on it.. you know, pops up in the lower right hand corner.. where do I find that? it only lasted a moment
[04:13] <dbb> there must be a list of recent notifications somewhere?
[06:14] <seiuno> pleia2: have you heard of "Banksy"?  http://www.ifc.com/news/assets_c/02012011_banksy1.jpg
[17:42] <seiuno> open letter to steve jobs:  http://underlore.com/TBA/?p=1586
[17:44] <akk> 503 Service Unavailable
[17:44] <akk> slashdotted?
[17:50] <seiuno> works here
[17:51] <seiuno> :|
[17:51] <seiuno> too bad, it was an interesting read.  very passionate.
[18:23] <nhaines> akk: try again.  it works here.
[18:24] <jtatum> uh
[18:24] <jtatum> this letter is sickening
[18:24] <jtatum> i can't abide someone being overjoyed by cancer
[18:28] <nhaines> Hmm, having read the letter I'm not sure the author actually supports his point in any way.
[18:31] <pleia2> tl;dr
[18:31] <pleia2> (but mostly for me life is too short to dwell upon such hatred)
[18:32] <pleia2> and apple bashing is dull
[18:34] <pleia2> nhaines: is http://www.socallinuxexpo.org/scale9x/special-events/ubucon done enough to be linked places?
[18:34] <akk> I agree, jtatum. I did get it a little later, but got turned off right away by that part.
[18:36] <akk> And after that it looked like it was flying off into rantville, so I gave up and went inside and started making rouladen instead.
[18:40] <jledbetter> +1 jtatum
[18:45] <Eureka> wiki: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Projects/Scale9x edited
[18:46] <seiuno> sickening?  that's hyperbolic.
[18:47] <seiuno> Bahrain is sickening.  the letter is titillating at worst.
[18:48] <seiuno> back to our dull, mundane lives.
[18:48]  * seiuno eats a rich, fatty, sugary food
[18:53] <akk> titillating? "pleasantly and superficially exciting"? "sexually arousing"?
[18:53] <akk> I guess I gave up before I got to that part of the letter.
[18:53] <seiuno> stimulating then
[18:54] <seiuno> "sensually exciting" according to wiktionary
[18:54] <seiuno> not "supeficially exciting"
[18:54] <seiuno> though, perhaps all "excitement" is "superficial"
[18:55] <akk> I used dict and took the two two definitions from wordnet and gcide.
[18:55] <seiuno> that's nice
[18:55] <akk> But regardless, you're clearly having a very different reaction to the letter than most folks here.
[18:55] <seiuno> that is obvious.
[18:56]  * seiuno pumps his fist
[18:56] <seiuno> "status quo!"
[18:57] <akk> Yes, clearly the only two choices are the status quo or gleefully rejoicing in someone's sickness and death.
[18:57] <akk> Certainly no one here working productively for change, like, say, contributing to free software projects.
[18:58]  * akk wanders off to do more of that
[18:59] <jledbetter> Some of us have had loved ones die to cancer so wouldn't wish it on anyone.
[18:59] <seiuno> "gleeful rejoicing" is a misrepresentation of the article
[19:01] <seiuno> saying he wishes cancer on someone is also a misrepresenation
[19:01]  * seiuno shrugs
[19:01] <jledbetter> I'm done.
[19:03] <seiuno> i've had loved ones die.  death's inevitably is highly probable.  mirrors cause anger.
[19:06] <seiuno> heh
[19:25] <nhaines> pleia2: as finished as anything else.  The official site isn't coming together as quickly as I'd hoped and I may not have it done until Monday or Tuesday.
[19:31] <pleia2> nhaines: ok thanks, was just blogging about it and was curious, went ahead and blogged w/ that schedule


[08:37] <surfzoid> Hi, once sources are uploaded with dput or backport cmd, is it possible to select one more arch and restart the build or need to delete pkg and upload again?
[08:42] <jugmac00> @surfzoid: I am afraid I cannot help you with that question, and my colleague is on leave.
[09:06] <surfzoid> jugmac00: ok, could yu plz have a look in log to know why qtmultimedia5-dev arm64 missing here https://launchpadlibrarian.net/667372206/buildlog_ubuntu-focal-arm64.qtvsplayer_1.0.42~202305220847~ubuntu20.04.1_BUILDING.txt.gz and in fact my qt build is finish and there is qtmultimedia5-dev at https://ppa.launchpadcontent.net/surfzoid/qt515-focal-arm64-surf/ubuntu/pool/main/q/qtmultimedia-opensource-src/
[09:11] <surfzoid> qtmultimedia seems ok https://launchpad.net/~surfzoid/+archive/ubuntu/qt515-focal-arm64-surf/+packages
[09:36] <surfzoid> hip hip houra after month it finally build......
[17:25] <surfzoid> 9 hours, really? : https://launchpad.net/~surfzoid/+archive/ubuntu/qt515-focal-arm64-surf/+build/26171525
[17:26] <surfzoid> 3 hours for amd64 : https://launchpad.net/~surfzoid/+archive/ubuntu/qt515-focal-arm64-surf/+build/26171524


[15:00] <bac> #startmeeting
[15:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 09:00. The chair is bac.
[15:00]  * bigjools is here
[15:00] <bac> who is here?
[15:00] <mars> me
[15:00] <wgrant> me
[15:00] <bigjools> ha, I read your mind!
[15:00] <noodles775> me
[15:00] <henninge> me
[15:00] <sinzui> me
[15:00] <mars> bac, gary-dentist sends his apologies
[15:01] <jelmer> me
[15:01] <abentley> me
[15:01] <bac> mars: i was assuming that would be the case
[15:01] <bac> and deryck as well
[15:02] <bac> EdwinGrubbs, danilos, gmb: pings
[15:02] <danilos> me
[15:02] <bac> flacoste: ping
[15:02] <EdwinGrubbs> me
[15:02] <flacoste> me
[15:03] <bac> allenap: yo
[15:03]  * bac thought the mass invite was such a good idea...
[15:03] <bac> [topic] agenda
[15:03] <bac> * Roll call
[15:03] <bac>  * Agenda
[15:03] <bac>  * Outstanding actions
[15:03] <bac>  * Mentat update.
[15:03] <bac>    * salgado (ui)
[15:03] <MootBot> New Topic:  agenda
[15:03] <bac>    * henninge (ui)
[15:03] <bac>    * stevenk (code)
[15:03] <bac>  * New topics
[15:03] <bac>   * Nice Storm gotcha (bigjools)
[15:03] <bac>   * canonical.launchpad is still deprecated, sinzui (AsiaPac meeting only)
[15:03] <bac>   * [[http://paste.ubuntu.com/507156/|Truth conditionals and the new "all" and "any" functions]], henninge
[15:04] <adeuring> me
[15:04] <allenap> me
[15:04]  * sinzui read that as "sinzui is deprecated" At least he is not obsolete
[15:04] <bac> salgado: ping
[15:04] <bac> [topic] mentoring update
[15:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  mentoring update
[15:05] <salgado> me!
[15:05] <sinzui> we are getting lots of UI reviews
[15:06] <sinzui> I do mean a lot, more than last month
[15:06] <sinzui> well, more than aug and jul
[15:06] <salgado> some weeks I get more, others I get less
[15:06] <henninge> I enjoy them but please try to provide screenshots ...
[15:06] <henninge> ... or even screencasts, like noodles775 does ;-)
[15:07] <salgado> yeah, screen[shots,casts] help a lot for small changes
[15:08] <salgado> but when they're not trivial I like to exercise them manually to test for corner cases and all that
[15:08] <henninge> true. Did not have any of those yet, though ... ;)
[15:10] <noodles775> Yeah, I think it's nearly always worth exercising manually - I just provide the screencasts to demo and get the context.
[15:11] <salgado> it's also nice when devs add demo data (aka dev sample data) that makes it easy to exercise the changes
[15:11] <bac> sorry about that, my internet died
[15:11] <bac> what did i miss?
[15:11] <sinzui> Paris is in flames
[15:11] <salgado> bac, http://paste.ubuntu.com/507276/
[15:11] <bigjools> how did they do that when they're on strike?
[15:12] <danilos> salgado, +1 for adding dev sampledata! I want to see much more of it
[15:12] <bac> noodles775: can you provide a link to one of your screencasts?  i've never seen one
[15:13] <noodles775> bac: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~michael.nelson/launchpad/652838-select-diffs-for-syncing/+merge/37572
[15:13] <bac> noodles775: thanks
[15:13] <noodles775> (the mp has the screencast as well as a script for sample data setup).
[15:13] <bac> [topic] new topics
[15:13] <MootBot> New Topic:  new topics
[15:13] <bac> [topic] Nice Storm gotcha (bigjools)
[15:13] <MootBot> New Topic:  Nice Storm gotcha (bigjools)
[15:13] <wgrant> :(
[15:13] <bigjools> heh
[15:14] <bigjools> I'd like to point you all to revision 11670 of devel
[15:14] <bigjools> notice the change - a storm expression was using Python's "in" instead of Storm's is_in
[15:15] <bigjools> this has been quite catastrophic for soyuz
[15:15] <bigjools> because the former was evaluating to True all the time
[15:15] <danilos> :(
[15:15] <sinzui> yuck
[15:15] <bigjools> so this is just a warning to not fuck up quite as spectacularly
[15:15] <wgrant> You'd think it would fail to False, but nooo.
[15:16] <bigjools> I'm wondering if we can get it lint checked?
[15:16] <sinzui> it's in a string, and pyflakes/pep8 ignore string content
[15:17] <wgrant> It's not in a string.
[15:17] <bigjools> or perhaps make Storm DTRT
[15:17] <wgrant> I'm not sure that Storm can be fixed.
[15:17] <bac> bigjools: is there a storm bug?
[15:17] <sinzui> but I think I can write a regexp that locates problems like this
[15:17] <wgrant> It's probably just seeing that __eq__ returns something that isn't False.
[15:17] <bigjools> bac: I don't know if it can be a bug or not
[15:17] <bac> bigjools: i mean, have we filed a bug or discussed with the stormers
[15:18] <bigjools> bac: not yet, I'm still in the middle of cleaning up the mess
[15:18] <bac> right
[15:18] <bigjools> when things are calmer I can do that
[15:18] <bigjools> anyway, that's it from me
[15:19] <bac> sinzui: are you going to take a look to see if lint can catch it?  can i assign you an item?
[15:19] <sinzui> I am
[15:19] <bac> [action] sinzui to try to fix lint wrt storm gotcha
[15:19] <MootBot> ACTION received:  sinzui to try to fix lint wrt storm gotcha
[15:19] <bigjools> it would be inside a .find() of course
[15:19] <bac> [topic] * [[http://paste.ubuntu.com/507156/|Truth conditionals and the new "all" and "any" functions]], henninge
[15:20] <MootBot> New Topic:  * [[http://paste.ubuntu.com/507156/|Truth conditionals and the new "all" and "any" functions]], henninge
[15:20] <henninge> everybody please read the paste ;-)
[15:20] <henninge> http://paste.ubuntu.com/507156/
[15:20] <bac> here's the link again http://paste.ubuntu.com/507156
[15:20] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://paste.ubuntu.com/507156/
[15:21] <allenap> bigjools, sinzui: Storm should probably not compile a raw True. It's a smell that something is wrong.
[15:21]  * sinzui has used if val not in (None, '')
[15:21] <allenap> henninge: any() and all() can consume generator expressions.
[15:21] <henninge> yes, any iterable
[15:21] <allenap> any(translation is not None and translation != "" for translation in translations)
[15:22] <henninge> yeah, ok ...
[15:22] <henninge> ;-)
[15:22] <bigjools> allenap: yes, good point
[15:22] <henninge> although is that not a 2.6ism with out the [] ?
[15:23] <allenap> henninge: I was against the explicit truthiness testing originally, but if we're having it then I feel we should stick to it.
[15:23] <allenap> No, it worked on 2.5 I think.
[15:23] <bigjools> FWIW jelmer and I found a bug in Soyuz code earlier where it was using "if thing:"
[15:23] <bigjools> instead of something more explicit
[15:24] <abentley> allenap, but also: len([translation is not None and translation != "" for translation in translations]) != 0
[15:24] <allenap> And, fwiw, I'm on-board with explicit conditionals now.
[15:24] <henninge> ok, I had not thought of allenap's solution,
[15:24] <henninge> that would work well for me, too.
[15:25] <henninge> No softening the policy, then?
[15:25] <allenap> abentley: That's cool, but I think any() and all() do add to readability, and they can shortcut too.
[15:25] <bac> henninge: sounds like there is not much support
[15:26] <danilos> I kind of feel like we should losen it
[15:26] <bigjools> I think they are dangerous
[15:26] <danilos> any() sounds quite to the point to me (i.e. it's not exactly like "if something" vs "if something is None", where being explicit does add value; with any() you are being explicit to a point)
[15:27] <henninge> danilos: but it *is* doing "if something" internally and you cannot do anything about it.
[15:27] <danilos> henninge, right, that's why I agree we should see what everybody feels about it :)
[15:28] <henninge> ;-)
[15:28] <sinzui> I see any as explicit. It looks like it is removing redundancy from the code
[15:28] <abentley> allenap: I'm okay with the semantics of your revised version, but I don't agree it's more readable.  It's one more thing to remember how it works.
[15:29] <henninge> abentley: I find the word "any" quite obvious ...
[15:29] <allenap> danilos: henninge's example could be split into two lines to enhance readability: valid_translations = (t is not None and t != "" for t in translations); if any(valid_translations): ...
[15:29] <noodles775> +1 for allenap's suggestion.
[15:29] <bac> allenap: but at that point you could just see if you have an empty list, no?
[15:29] <allenap> It's a builtin too; no hiding from it.
[15:30] <abentley> henninge: not me.  Does it mean "length > 1" or does it mean "anything in this iterable is true"?
[15:30] <allenap> bac: The generator expression combined with any() means you can shortcut as soon as a translation is available.
[15:30] <henninge> abentley: well, the latter.
[15:31] <allenap> If translations is expensive to iterate over then it could make a difference.
[15:31] <abentley> henninge: That's not the most obvious meaning to me, but with storm, "any" has yet another meaning.
[15:31] <danilos> I don't think we need a solution to replace bare "any()" use in this meeting, we should just decide whether we want to stop basic usage as non-explicit
[15:31] <allenap> abentley: Yeah, that's unfortunate.
[15:31] <danilos> allenap, it is not, it's a list of at most 6 items
[15:32] <allenap> danilos: Here, okay, but in general it might be useful to shortcut evaluation.
[15:32] <allenap> danilos: Which is what the for loop does.
[15:33] <danilos> allenap, right, but as I said, I am not interested in valid use cases of any(), but rather, invalid, in terms of our "be-explicit" policy :)
[15:33] <allenap> Anyway, I thought this was just about being explicit in conditionals? I think we should be explicit everywhere, including in any() and all().
[15:33] <danilos> allenap, yeah, but not many people have an opinion on any() in particular
[15:34] <henninge> allenap: right, that was my questions and that is an answer ... ;)
[15:34] <henninge> danilos: no opinion, no change ...
[15:34] <danilos> henninge, that's right, let's move on bac :)
[15:35] <bac> henninge: right.  would you still update the page to include the summary?
[15:35] <henninge> bac: I am done. I will add a comment to the style guide to suggest allenaps code.
[15:35] <bac> thanks
[15:35] <henninge> :)
[15:35] <bac> [topic] anything else?
[15:35] <MootBot> New Topic:  anything else?
[15:36] <bac> no?
[15:36] <bac> #endmeeting
[15:36] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 09:36.
[15:36] <bac> thanks for coming
[15:36] <henninge> thanks bac!
[15:39] <bigjools> cheers bac


[16:09] <thafreak> Anyone else frustrated by more things getting sucked into systemd
[16:09] <thafreak> but without the same level of support as was previously available
[16:10] <thafreak> So, now there's "netplan"...and it renders a yaml file into appropriate systemd-networkd configs
[16:10] <thafreak> But I can't replicate what I do now with it.
[16:11] <thafreak> so frustrating.
[16:11] <thafreak> So how is everyone else doing? Anyone still hardcore ubuntu fans? :)
[16:23] <dzho> I remain merely a casual fan, with the loyalty split still coming down more on the side of Debian, but Debian still doesn't pay anyone I know so ...
[16:27] <thafreak> It's only a matter of time until debian switches to systemd-networkd
[16:27] <thafreak> and systemd-resolvd
[16:28] <thafreak> If it all just worked as I expected, and didn't keep having ridiculous security vulnerabilities, I wouldn't really care TBH
[16:29] <thafreak> but everytime something isn't working how I expect it to, i look and lo and behold, systemd has now taken over that too
[16:30] <dzho> whatever the problems with systemd, I have read enough about it to know that they are almost certainly not due in any part to any deficiency in the design of systemd, or the way in which it has been introduced, or implemented by the original developers.  All problems stem from incomplete understanding and implementation by the downstream projects and end users.
[16:30] <dzho> if it doesn't do something you want it to do, or does more than you want it to do, you should adjust your expectations.
[16:30] <dzho> Procrustes-Procrusty-face
[16:35] <thafreak> lol
[16:36] <thafreak> well, this current situation i'm at a stand still. I can't get a virt host set up because I can't set up a network bridge :/
[16:37] <thafreak> i can create one with netplan and systemd-network, but it doesn't get brought up, because I don't assign it an IP
[16:37] <thafreak> and libvirt can't bring it up, because ifup doesn't exist anymore
[16:38] <thafreak> so..
[16:38] <thafreak> bleh
[21:11] <dzho> well said.
[21:11] <dzho> bleh
[22:23] <Unit193> 'nplan' was Ubuntu's wonderful idea, I avoided that one too.
[22:25] <Unit193> I was never a hardcore "Ubuntu" fan, but the flavors really are community run, and sometimes the people are pretty good.  I find it easier to contribute to Ubuntu than Debian, but I have a backup plan when Ubuntu has finally done enough to push me away from it entirely.


[02:25] <liuxg> has anyone successfully turned off autopilot for a snappy device? I did exactly the same at the instructions at https://github.com/ubuntu-core/snappy/blob/master/docs/autoupdate.md, but no success. I have replaced the "autoupdate" to autopilot.
[08:04] <dholbach> good morning
[08:10] <fgimenez> good morning
[09:44] <SaMnCo-desktop> Hello! If I would like to run a set of Docker Containers and give them access to a BLE USB stick, what would be the recommended method?
[09:59] <Chipaca> liuxg: echo 'config: {ubuntu-core: {autopilot: off}}' | sudo snappy config ubuntu-core -
[10:00] <Chipaca> liuxg: it seems autoupdate.md is missing the -
[10:01] <liuxg> Chipaca, is it "off", or "false"?
[10:02] <liuxg> Chipaca, it should be "true" or "false". it should not be "on" or "off"
[10:03] <Chipaca> liuxg: why should it not be on/off?
[10:03] <Chipaca> liuxg: y|Y|yes|Yes|YES|n|N|no|No|NO|true|True|TRUE|false|False|FALSE|on|On|ON|off|Off|OFF
[10:04] <Chipaca> liuxg: all of those are valid boolean values in yaml
[10:05] <liuxg> Chipaca, ok.　let me try it.
[10:06] <liuxg> Chipaca, sorry, I am wrong. it works. also true/false work as well. :)
[10:10] <liuxg> Chipaca, by the way, what is the use of "-" in the command?
[10:11] <Chipaca> liuxg: conventionally, specifying - for an argument that expects a file uses stdin as the file
[10:12] <liuxg> Chipaca, I got it. thanks
[10:14] <liuxg> Chipaca, I just found that the method at https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/snappy/guides/autopilot/ also worked
[10:23] <mattyw> hey folks, this new snap format, that's not landed in the repository yet has it (I just built a snap and got this when I tried to upload (failed to install: Signature verification failed: Internal error. E.g. Package corrupt, gpg failed, etc.)
[10:23] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Thursday and happy Cake Day! 😃  http://goo.gl/oKyw2t
[10:24] <ogra_`> mattyw, did you use the --allow-unauthenticated option to snappy install ?
[10:24] <mattyw> ogra_`, I didn't that must be a new thing?
[10:24] <ogra_`> oh, ignore me
[10:24] <ogra_`> i thought you meant you sideload a snap ... but you see that on upload
[10:24] <JamesTait> Error "failed to install" when uploading? o_O
[10:24] <ogra_`> oh, right
[10:25] <mattyw> JamesTait, ogasawara well, snappy-remote install
[10:25] <ogra_`> ah !
[10:25] <mattyw> yeah I'm sideloading
[10:25] <JamesTait> Ah!
[10:25]  * JamesTait stands down
[10:25] <ogra_`> then you want the --allow-unauthenticated option indeed
[10:25] <ogra_`> (and no, thats not new at all)
[10:26] <mattyw> ogra_`, I'll give it a go, thanks very much, sure I didn't need it a few months ago but no biggy
[10:27] <ogra_`> i'm sure you always needed it ... might be that snappy-remote did set it automatically or some such though
[10:27]  * ogra_` never uses it
[10:28] <ogra_`> (snappy-remote that is)
[10:28] <Chipaca> mattyw: a few months ago you might have been using an image in developer mode
[10:28] <Chipaca> mattyw: which imples --alllow-unauthenticated-potatos
[10:29] <mattyw> unknown flag `allow-unauthenticated'
[10:29] <mattyw> hmmm
[10:31] <mattyw> ogra_`, unknown flag, what do you use if not snappy-remote?
[10:36] <mattyw> ogra_`, just works now, maybe I did have a bad snap - all working now, sorry to trouble you
[10:49] <SaMnCo-desktop> is there a list of all caps available for users somewhere?
[10:50] <SaMnCo-desktop> eg. in https://insights.ubuntu.com/2015/07/20/prime-time-docker-juju-and-snappy-ubuntu-core/ Dustin uses "docker_client"
[10:50] <SaMnCo-desktop> where does that come from?
[10:56] <Chipaca> SaMnCo-desktop: docker itself
[10:56] <Chipaca> SaMnCo-desktop: frameworks can extend caps
[11:03] <SaMnCo-desktop> Chipaca-  ok so if I want a Docker container to have access to Bluetooth, I should have it use the framework "docker" so it can run
[11:03] <asac> so the kernel-snap thingy annouced by rtg the other day is not abouut a snapcraft plugin, but rather hard coded build logic in the kernel source tree? or did i miss something?
[11:04] <SaMnCo-desktop> and then, what cap / framework should I use to add the BLE stack?
[11:05] <Chipaca> SaMnCo-desktop: i'm not sure there's a bluez framework yet, but there might be
[11:05] <SaMnCo-desktop> Chipaca-  Is there a list of public frameworks available somewhere?
[11:06] <Chipaca> SaMnCo-desktop: i don't think so, but i'm not sure
[11:11] <Chipaca> dholbach: so, two issues with snappy docs in d.u.c
[11:11] <Chipaca> dholbach: one is the autopilot doc, which is stale
[11:11] <Chipaca> dholbach: in fact i don't think it's ever been true for a released snappy
[11:11] <SaMnCo-desktop> Chipaca-  so, is there a list of the caps available somewhere?
[11:11] <dholbach> yes, I know some are stale :-/
[11:12] <Chipaca> dholbach: the other is that I think most of those should have some kind of text that said "these are for 15.04; for rolling, go to <github/yaddayadda/docs/blah.md>
[11:12] <dholbach> yes, that's the plan
[11:12] <dholbach> the automatic importer does all of this, but it's broken and we're working with django cms upstream to get it fixed
[11:12] <Chipaca> ah
[11:12] <dholbach> what can I do for the short term? update the autopilot doc?
[11:13] <Chipaca> that'd help
[11:13] <dholbach> from the 15.04 branch?
[11:13] <Chipaca> oh, good point
[11:14] <Chipaca> let me check that :)
[11:14] <Chipaca> dholbach: is this manual or automatic?
[11:14] <dholbach> it's manual now
[11:14] <dholbach> I hope it's automatic very soon
[11:14] <Chipaca> dholbach: in any case, i think i should first fix them on the 15.04 branch and then point you at it there
[11:14] <dholbach> but I guess it'll take at least 1-2 more weeks
[11:15] <Chipaca> dholbach: i'll poke you later today when the 15.04 branch has the right autopilot docs
[11:15] <Chipaca> dholbach: thanks
[11:16] <dholbach> thanks Chipaca
[11:26] <ogra_`> asac, the kernel snap only uses binary debs
[11:27] <ogra_`> asac, it is actually rootstock hacked up :P
[11:34] <asac> ogra_`: why didnt we do the snapcraft plugin?
[11:34] <asac> was there a need to do the shortcut?
[11:35] <ogra_`> asac, it is a snapcraft plugin but using rootstock as backend
[11:35] <asac> it is?
[11:35] <asac> the git branch rt announced isnt
[11:35] <ogra_`> asac, http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git/rtg/kernel-snap.git/tree/
[11:35] <asac> its just a makefile in a source tree that does everything
[11:35] <asac> http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git/rtg/kernel-snap.git/tree/Makefile?h=amd64-from-deb-16.04
[11:35] <asac> how is that a plugin?
[11:37] <ogra_`> build_chroot: rootstock
[11:37] <ogra_`> 	sudo sh ./rootstock -a $(ARCH) -f $(LINUX_FLAVOUR) -m $(MIRROR) -s $(SUITE) -b $(BOOTLOADER) $(PPAS) -k
[11:37] <ogra_`> 	sudo chmod +r $(CHROOT)/boot/*
[11:37] <ogra_`> the only git i see in that file is to pull the most recent rootstock script
[11:40] <ogra_`> asac, and there is no other way to do it ... you need a proper initrd which you can only get from packages
[11:41] <ogra_`> http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git/rtg/kernel-snap.git/log/?h=raspi2-from-git
[11:41] <ogra_`> this seems to first build a deb from a kernel tree and then pipes it into rootstock
[11:41] <ogra_`> but effectively it is all deb based
[11:42] <ogra_`> (in the backend processing)
[12:05] <asac> ogra_`: ok, but this is not using snapcraft... guess will have to happen still then. thanks
[12:06] <ogra_`> asac, it is a snapcraft plugin and i plan to use it in the official builds later
[12:06] <sergiusens> ppisati, hey, are you going to be able to make it to the dtb meeting I set?
[12:06] <ogra_`> (or it will become one in the end at least as i understand)
[12:06] <sergiusens> ogra_`, asac what plugin?
[12:06] <ogra_`> sergiusens, tims kernel thin
[12:06] <ogra_`> *thing
[12:07] <ogra_`> sergiusens, http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git/rtg/kernel-snap.git/refs/
[12:07] <ogra_`> asac, as i understood tim plans to just hook it into the make plugin in the end
[12:08] <sergiusens> ogra_`, so it would be a part, not a plugin
[12:08] <ogra_`> might be ... better ask tim how he planned to integrate it
[12:09] <sergiusens> the only thing that worries me are the sudo calls
[12:09] <ogra_`> but as i understood the reason for the toplevel Makefile is to make use of the make plugin
[12:09] <ogra_`> yeah, he probably should use fakechroot
[12:09] <ogra_`> (and fakeroot)
[12:10] <asac> hmm. sounds not as cool as it could/should be, in this case snapcraft doesnt make life easier
[12:10] <sergiusens> ogra_`, can you do everything there with sudo?
[12:10] <ogra_> sergiusens, thats what i do in the touch initrd build scripts
[12:10] <ogra_> you dont need sudo at all then ... it fakes a root env
[12:11] <ogra_> asac, well ... you need the chroot bit to generate an initrd until we have any other solution ... you will always end up with scripts there ...
[12:12] <ogra_> the build wouldnt need to use a deb for the kernel itself though ... but i guess thats also more maintenance in the end
[12:12] <sergiusens> ogra_, so what's up the the talks about making initrd generic?
[12:13] <ogra_> sergiusens, i wish we could ... but that would mean a bunch of kernel changes
[12:13] <ppisati> sergiusens: yep
[12:13] <asac> ogra_: what is the other solution? who is working on it and if noone what needs doing e.g. the plan?
[12:13] <sergiusens> ppisati, great
[12:13] <ogra_> not sure we actually want squashfs and all of vfat built into every generic kernel
[12:13] <asac> if noone comes up with a better solution we have to go generic
[12:14] <asac> not sure if anyone is thinking about better solution though; hence asking
[12:14] <ogra_> asac, the only other solution would be a module-less initrtd that you can just pull from somewhere
[12:14] <ogra_> asac, but as i said above, that needs all bits we need to boot snappy built into the kernel
[12:14] <asac> sure
[12:14] <ogra_> ad as ling as we use the generic kernel thats tricky
[12:14] <asac> doesnt feel wrong to do that; who is pushing back?
[12:14] <ogra_> *long
[12:15] <ogra_> nobody is pushing back
[12:15] <asac> so vfat is surely in the kernel right now, no?
[12:15] <ogra_> not all of it
[12:15] <ogra_> codepages are mnodules
[12:16] <asac> whats that?
[12:16] <ogra_> we need all of vfat, ext4 and squashfs builtin
[12:16] <ogra_> nls codepages
[12:16] <ogra_> for being able to handle filenames
[12:16] <ogra_> vfat needs that
[12:17] <ogra_> and there are multiple (i never saw any other than iso-8859-1 used though, but there are like 30-50 of them)
[12:17] <asac> so we support some format of filenames?
[12:17] <asac> why cant we restrict us to those?
[12:17] <ogra_> vfat does
[12:17] <ogra_> its not us
[12:18] <ogra_> i dont think there is a utf-8 codepage that could cover everything
[12:20] <ogra_> asac, the prob is ... if you get a usb stick from a chinese friend it might need a different codepage ... vfat wouldnt mount it if that isnt available ... while we could build all codepages into the kernel technically that adds a huge amount of bloat
[12:21] <ogra_> OTOH i'm not sure if we could build only the codepage we use into the kernel and leave the rest as modules
[12:21] <ogra_> probably ppisati knows :)
[12:22] <sergiusens> Chipaca or mvo_ , is      security-template: network-status    a 16.04 only thing?
[12:24] <Chipaca> sergiusens: no
[12:24] <Chipaca> sergiusens: bah. it's under 15.04. let me check on actual 15.04
[12:27] <Chipaca> sergiusens: it's there in 15.04
[12:27] <Chipaca> sergiusens: /usr/share/apparmor/easyprof/policygroups/ubuntu-core/15.04/network-status
[12:27] <sergiusens> Chipaca, meh, then boo :-)
[12:27] <sergiusens> Chipaca, 2015/11/24 08:43:59.067839 security.go:205: [sc-filtergen --include-policy-dir=/var/lib/snappy/seccomp --policy-vendor=ubuntu-core --policy-version=15.04 --template=network-status --policy-groups=networking] failed
[12:27] <sergiusens> bwm-ng_0.6-3.2_amd64.snap failed to install: exit status 1
[12:27] <sergiusens> Chipaca, is it on sstable or only edge?
[12:28]  * sergiusens starts the day and checks
[12:28] <Chipaca> sergiusens: stable r10
[12:29] <sergiusens> Chipaca, hah, review tools fail for this as well with 'unsupported template'
[12:30] <sergiusens> Chipaca, this is what I'm looking at btw https://bugs.launchpad.net/snapcraft/+bug/1519251
[12:30] <ogra_> beuno, i still cant install any snaps on either of my edge installs, how long do you plan to keep it that way ?
[12:30] <ogra_> (shouldnt that be rolled back until we have a proper solution ?)
[12:34] <Chipaca> sergiusens: you should probably have a word with the jamie
[12:34] <ogra_> mvo_, what do you think about forcing LC_ALL=C in an /etc/profile.d snippet that we ship in ubuntu-core-config ?
[12:34]  * ogra_ is annoyed having to set LC_ALL=C all the time
[12:37] <beuno> ogra_, hi. We just need to make a decision on how to fix it. I'll get that decision in ~30 minutes
[12:38] <ogra_> ok
[12:53] <dholbach> hey sergiusens
[12:54] <mvo_> ogra_: +1 from me until have  a image that supports locales
[12:54] <dholbach> sergiusens, if I list a file under binaries which is a shell script, should that work and provide a valid snap?
[12:55] <ogra_> mvo_, eek ... you really want to go down that rabbit hole ?
[12:55] <dholbach> sergiusens, or do we only want to list binaries there?
[12:57] <mvo_> ogra_: I think eventually we have no choice, for now I think forcing C or C.UTF-8 is fine
[12:57] <ogra_> mvo_, we always have choice :)
[12:58] <ogra_> but yeah. i'll add that snippet
[13:02] <sergiusens> dholbach, interpreted languages are binaries(!)
[13:02] <sergiusens> dholbach, well, to the purpose of snapcraft ;-)
[13:02] <sergiusens> dholbach, the examples are full of them
[13:03] <dholbach> sergiusens, I get this:
[13:03] <dholbach> - lint:control_architecture_specified_needed
[13:03] <dholbach> 	Could not find compiled binaries for architecture 'amd64'
[13:04] <dholbach> I guess that's a bug for click-reviewers-tools
[13:04] <sergiusens> dholbach, define architetures: [all]
[13:04] <dholbach> maybe somebody could help Jamie with a review of this one too: https://code.launchpad.net/~jdstrand/click-reviewers-tools/click-reviewers-tools.snappy1604/+merge/278218
[13:04] <sergiusens> dholbach, your snap is just one one one script?
[13:04] <dholbach> yes
[13:05] <dholbach> sergiusens, "architetures: [all]" doesn't fix it
[13:06] <sergiusens> dholbach, is there a typo there?
[13:06] <sergiusens> missing a c :-)
[13:08] <dholbach> sorry, "architectures: [all]"
[13:11] <dholbach> https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~dholbach/+junk/hello-world.snap/view/head:/snapcraft.yaml
[13:26] <dholbach> sergiusens, ^
[13:28] <sergiusens> dholbach, yeah yeah, one sec ;-)
[13:28] <dholbach> ok, no worries :)
[13:40] <beuno> ogra_, conclusion is that we'll update the edge image to point at the stable channel
[13:40] <beuno> and other things, that i'll send to the list in a little bit
[13:41] <ogra_> beuno, dont forget about stable then :)
[13:41] <ogra_> (i mean 15.04/edge, sorry )
[13:43] <beuno> yes, for 15.04 as well
[13:43] <beuno> mvo will solve all the problems, as usual
[13:43] <ogra_> ah, k, then it is in good hands
[13:44] <sergiusens> dholbach, so I guess we don't support your use case anymore
[13:44] <dholbach> ok...
[13:44] <sergiusens> dholbach, we could, we just don't
[13:44] <dholbach> I guess this might be a common one?
[13:45] <dholbach> is there another way to at least create a wrapper for scripts?
[13:47] <ogra_> sergiusens, well, as long as "snappy build" works, once can at least still build multi snaps manually :P
[13:47] <sergiusens> ogra_, snappy build will not work in 16.04
[13:48] <ogra_> sergiusens, yeah, and with that snappy loses a lot of excitement for me as maintainer ... unless you start supporting multi snaps in snapcraft
[13:48] <sergiusens> dholbach, I really doubt there will be a lot of snaps that are just scripts, but just create a bug ;-)
[13:48] <ogra_> since i have to maintain a single snap for each arch ... with a single page in the store etc etc ...
[13:48]  * ogra_ guesses that wont win us more maintainers
[13:49] <dholbach> sergiusens, is that a snapcraft or click-reviewers-tools issue?
[13:49] <sergiusens> dholbach, snapcraft, we mark the arch as where you build it
[13:49] <dholbach> ok
[13:49] <ogra_> sergiusens, maintaining debs is easier then
[13:49] <ogra_> (which is very sad)
[13:50] <sergiusens> dholbach, if I find something to parse the tree and check if it is an actual binary we can do this automatically
[13:50] <sergiusens> ogra_, I have no idea what you are talking about ;-)
[13:51] <dholbach> sergiusens, you can probably borrow the checks from the reviewers tools
[13:51] <ogra_> sergiusens, that maintaining my stuff in a deb is abouot 10% the work it takes me to maintain 4 snaps
[13:51] <ogra_> with that new model
[13:52] <ogra_> we are making maintainer life really hard with that
[13:52] <ogra_> i.e. it wouldnt encourage me to turn my stuff into a snap as an upstream ... even thouh it is easier to set up a snapcraft.yaml vs a debian dir, the followup work is horrid
[13:52] <sergiusens> ogra_, you can take the store issues to beuno and for snapcraft, better bring in concrete problems (in the form of bugs would be nice so it's not fire and forget)
[13:53] <ogra_> sergiusens, well, thats not a store issue ... i have a few multi arch snaps
[13:54] <ogra_> (in fact node-snapper defaults to build multi)
[13:54] <ogra_> with dropping the ability to do that you make maintainer life really hard if i as maintainer want to support all arches
[13:54] <sergiusens> ogra_, as a debian package maintainer you need to create N builds for N arches; I don't understand how it is harder
[13:54] <ogra_> and i dont think a bug is the right thing for somethin "planned"
[13:55] <ogra_> sergiusens, i dont ... i upload one source package
[13:55] <sergiusens> ogra_, you should be able to build for N arches on launchpad
[13:55]  * sergiusens goes back to work
[13:56] <ogra_> sergiusens, right, but then i still need to maintin N store pages because i have not a single multi snap but N arches i need to support now
[13:56] <ogra_> i simply think it is very discouraging to drop that feature
[13:58] <sergiusens> dholbach, ping me once you have the bug
[13:59] <dholbach> sergiusens, https://bugs.launchpad.net/snapcraft/+bug/1520248
[14:13] <Chipaca> dholbach: https://github.com/ubuntu-core/snappy/blob/15.04/docs/autopilot.md is ready for you
[14:13] <dholbach> thanks Chipaca
[14:16] <dholbach> Chipaca, updated
[14:16] <Chipaca> huzzah
[14:25] <sergiusens> dholbach, this is also ready for you https://github.com/ubuntu-core/snapcraft/pull/121
[14:25] <dholbach> sergiusens, checking in a sec
[15:20] <dholbach> sergiusens, so with this branch I'm required to specify architectures, right?
[15:23] <sergiusens> dholbach, yes
[15:24] <dholbach> it'd be nice if that wasn't necessary O:-)
[15:25] <sergiusens> dholbach, oh; but then ogra_ will complain that multi is not working either
[15:25] <sergiusens> dholbach, I will add auto detect into a future branch
[15:25] <ogra_> :P
[15:25] <dholbach> I don't understand
[15:26] <dholbach> couldn't this be completely autodetected at some stage in the future?
[15:43] <sergiusens> mvo_, Chipaca mind confirming my comment? https://bugs.launchpad.net/snappy/+bug/1520253
[15:45] <ogra_> hmm ... snappy list on my rpi shows me "classic.mvo" .... i thought thats amd64 only
[15:46] <davmor2> I think mvo only called it classic so he could get people to say classic.mvo more often
[15:47] <ogra_> well, i should see ubuntu-classic-armhf.mvo i think
[15:47] <davmor2> ogra_: spoilsport
[15:50] <sergiusens> dholbach, the arch stuff in click-review only checks for binaries, I'd need to walk the full tree, might be doable
[15:50] <sergiusens> err, hmm, all_files, nevermind :-)
[15:57] <beuno> ogra_, ubuntu-classic-armhf.mvo
[15:57] <beuno> hasn't been published
[15:57] <ogra_> oh
[15:57] <beuno> not sure if by accident or not
[15:57] <ogra_> https://uappexplorer.com/app/ubuntu-classic-armhf.mvo
[15:57] <ogra_> your API thinks differently :)
[15:57] <beuno> ogra_, classic.mvo
[15:58] <beuno> is marked as architecture independant
[15:58] <beuno> which I'm sure is a lie
[15:58] <ogra_> you'd guess :)
[15:58] <beuno> that's why you get it as a result
[15:59] <beuno> ogra_, it was published and then unpublished
[15:59] <beuno> seems uappexplorer doesn't keep up with removals
[15:59] <ogra_> ah !
[15:59] <beuno> Wed 25 Nov. 2015
[15:59] <beuno> Ready to publish.
[15:59] <beuno> Tue 24 Nov. 2015
[15:59] <beuno> Published.
[15:59] <beuno> mvo is such a tease
[15:59] <ogra_> haha
[15:59] <ogra_> yeah
[16:00]  * ogra_ installs his debootstrap snap then ... who needs classic :P
[16:01] <dholbach> install the moon-buggy snap :-P
[16:06] <ogra_> hah !
[16:06] <sergiusens> dholbach, what does that do?
[16:06] <ogra_> cool
[16:06] <ogra_> someone needs to do a nethack snap too !
[16:06] <dholbach> sergiusens, it's a silly ascii art game
[16:07] <dholbach> sergiusens, I was just looking for something hello-world-esque to snap :)
[16:07] <tsimonq2> an irssi snap would be pretty badass
[16:07] <tsimonq2> or an ssh one
[16:07] <tsimonq2> (if it isn't already integrated)
[16:07] <ogra_> an ssh one ??
[16:07] <ogra_> ssh is
[16:07] <tsimonq2> ogra_: oh, ok
[16:08] <ogra_> i'm about to upload a bip snap
[16:08] <ogra_> and an approx one too
[16:08] <tsimonq2> ogra_: but an irssi one would be pretty badass, no?
[16:08] <ogra_> sure, go ahead !
[16:08] <tsimonq2> :D
[16:17] <tsimonq2> ogra_: would you happen to know how I can make myself a debootstrap Sannpy environment, instead of using a VM?
[16:17] <tsimonq2> *Snappy
[16:18] <ogra_> you mean on your PC ?
[16:19] <tsimonq2> ogra_: yep, I am using an i386 Lubuntu machine, which is old, so no Hardware Virtualization support
[16:19] <tsimonq2> ogra_: so that would probably be a way around that, right?
[16:20] <ogra_> no, it wont ... to run a snappy install you need a certain partitioning
[16:20] <tsimonq2> oh ok
[16:20] <dholbach> sergiusens, we'll go with next Wed 16 UTC, right? if you're fine with that, I'll send the announce and get it added to the calendars
[16:20] <ogra_> so some kind of vm is needed ...
[16:20] <tsimonq2> ogra_: I have a nicer machine, so when I get access to it, I will use that with a VM
[16:21] <tsimonq2> because an irssi snap would be awesome :D
[16:21] <ogra_> (unless you have actual hardware like an Rpi2)
[16:21] <tsimonq2> nope
[16:21] <ogra_> to actually build a snap you only need snapcraft installed
[16:21] <tsimonq2> oh, is that as simple as sudo apt install snapcraft?
[16:21] <ogra_> (thouh indeed, to test it you will need a VM to instal it in)
[16:21] <ogra_> yeah
[16:22] <sergiusens> dholbach, yeah, by then 0.6 might be out :-P
[16:22] <tsimonq2> ok, might as well play with it a bit, this could be awesome :D
[16:22] <dholbach> sergiusens, ok.. I'll just call it "what's new in snapcraft" :)
[16:22] <ogra_> if you have questions, just ask here
[16:23] <tsimonq2> ok, thanks ogra_
[16:27] <tsimonq2> ogra_: do you guys have support for the Raspberry Pi Zero yet?
[16:27] <ogra_> we cant
[16:27] <ogra_> it uses the same CPU arch as the RPi1
[16:28] <tsimonq2> ogra_: so NO Ubuntu on that AT ALL?
[16:28] <tsimonq2> sad :(
[16:28] <ogra_> yep
[22:14] <ogra_> sergiusens, is there any way to use a package proxy for snapcraft ?
[22:14] <ogra_> or make it use the sources.list entry from my build chroot
[23:16] <sergiusens> ogra_, USE_LOCAL_SOURCES=1
[23:16] <sergiusens> ogra_, the xenial snapcraft will always do that btw
[23:16] <sergiusens> oh, but the cache, the cache is different
[23:17] <sergiusens> the way python apt is done, it is not straightforward and haven't found time


[04:55] <mwhudson> this conversation reminds me that i should probably make sure more people know about https://github.com/mwhudson/dput-wrap


[03:48] <Dr|Craig> I'm trying to install kubuntu on virtualbox but the GUI keeps crashing
[05:14] <arghnetubuntu> anyone know an easy way to load khali lin. inside ubunutu? trying to get an athreos chipset into monitor mode
[05:29] <valorie> !atheros
[05:30] <valorie> pfff
[05:33] <arghnetubuntu> im new to this, i know the chipset supports it. do i need to flash a custom firmware on it?
[05:33] <arghnetubuntu> its a TP link $20 pos
[05:34] <arghnetubuntu> and thank you for the link
[05:50] <valorie> arghnetubuntu: I've not needed to set such things up manually for eons so I'm not much help
[05:51] <valorie> but notice the "modprobe" stuff
[05:51] <valorie> which pokes the needed stuff into the kernel as I recall
[05:51] <valorie> you might find more help in #ubuntu where there are more people
[05:51] <valorie> !pm
[05:53] <arghnetubuntu> thank you
[05:54] <valorie> you are most welcome; that's why we're here
[05:55] <valorie> to help one another out
[05:55] <arghnetubuntu> much appreciated
[07:09] <dubis> Hi, Is it normal kjots is no more in KDEPIM?
[07:15] <valorie> !info kjots
[07:16] <valorie> dubis: I don't recall it being part of PIM?
[07:16] <valorie> I remember using it, but it was standalone
[07:21] <dubis> !info kjots
[07:22] <dubis> where can i find source of kjots?
[07:25] <dubis> I find that about https://sites.google.com/site/bb1001dd/linux-hacks-and-patches/kjots-insert-image-patch but I've got error with KStandardDirs object should be remplaced by FileLocate or something else
[07:47] <valorie> dubis: you can get source for any package just by enabling that in your sources list
[07:47] <valorie> !source
[07:47] <valorie> now if you want it from git, you'll clone it from the kde sources, not our packages
[07:48] <valorie> but start with our source package
[07:48] <valorie> niters all
[07:49] <lordievader> Good morning.
[07:49] <dubis> valorie thanks
[07:59] <dubis> valorie: we told me about a new tools project do you have any info?
[10:30] <akasic> hi, when using firefox and clicking videos in youtube, sometimes, the video just opens the audio and plays over the  last one, any help? thnx
[10:31] <akasic> there are no other tabs opened
[11:36] <BluesKaj> Hey folks
[12:42] <tucnak> hiho there, I just got my kubuntu 15.04 broken :\
[12:42] <tucnak> basically, it boots as expected, but gets stuck on fancy loading bar after login
[12:42] <tucnak> I tried purging / reinstalling kubuntu-desktop
[12:43] <tucnak> did some weird things I don't remember to sddm
[12:43] <tucnak> I'd love you guys to at least give me a clue to log file, which might contain useful information related to after-login boot process
[12:45] <hateball> tucnak: you could try moving your user config to a backup location so it generates new files
[12:46] <tucnak> hateball: you mean .config, or .kde5 or whatever?
[12:46] <hateball> tucnak: that is, change to a vtty, log in, move the contents of ~/config/kde to somewhere
[12:47] <hateball> tucnak: yeah I am not on plasma5 now so I am unsure about the location
[12:47] <hateball> but it should be in ~/.config iirc
[12:48] <hateball> on kde4.x it's in ~/.kde/ but I think it moved in plasma5
[12:48] <tucnak> hateball: gimme a while
[13:00] <tucnak> hateball: danke, it workd
[13:02] <yossarianuk> hi - does anyone here remember the name of an opensource game which I used to play on Linux years (at least 5+) ago - there were no graphics - it was based in cave and you controlled a blind bat? you controlled purely by sound ....
[13:03] <Pici> no.. but it sounds kinda neat
[13:03] <hateball> tucnak: cool, hopefully you didnt lose any data
[13:03] <hateball> tucnak: at any rate it's still there in the backup dir
[13:04] <lordievader> yossarianuk: Sounds pretty cool indeed.
[13:05] <yossarianuk> lordievader: pici: it was in an odd way... - perfect to play at work (no one will know your playing..)
[13:05] <lordievader> Hehe
[13:05] <lordievader> yossarianuk: If you remember do let me know.
[13:05] <Pici> yossarianuk: well, if you're looking for cli games, theres the bsdgames package, which has a lot of old favorites. theres also nethack.
[13:12] <yossarianuk> Pici: cheers, it may have been SDL based. (just no graphics..)
[13:12] <Pici> ah
[13:13] <yossarianuk> _may be wrong..)
[13:40] <akasic> hi all, i cant format an external hdd, i get the next error:  mkdosfs: failed whilst writing reserved sector
[14:39] <Das_> Good Day! I am using Kubuntu 14.04 LTS. With KDE 4.13.3 installed. Now: I would like to install the newly released Digikam 4.12.0 on my machine. Is this possible without loosing the LTS "Status"? Thanks in advance!
[15:03] <ShadowX> The network keeps saying setting network address
[15:03] <ShadowX> but doesn't connect
[15:03] <ShadowX> does anybody know how to fix this?
[17:16] <alvin> I'm trying to do a 'manual partitioning'. But how? I've created the necessary volumes (LVM). They are prepared, but how can I show them to the installer?
[17:16] <alvin> In other words, I want to tell the installer what logical volume to use for /root and swap,...
[17:18] <lordievader> alvin: The installer should list them.
[17:19] <alvin> Hmm. It doesn't. Is there a way to reload the installer?
[17:19] <alvin> I'll try pressing back.
[17:20] <lordievader> alvin: Go all the way back to the options on how to partition the disk (full, lvm, manual, etc)
[17:20] <alvin> lordievader: Ok. you are absolutely right! I went back and used manual again. Now they are all visible
[17:23] <alvin> EFI Dual-boot with encrypted LVM. There are easier things, but it looks good. I can't seem to point the Windows EFI partition to /boot/efi, but the installer *might* pick that one up I hope.
[17:24] <lordievader> I'm running an encrypted lvm spread over two disks ;)
[17:25] <alvin> Never tried that one. Both disks have to be opened before loading LVM then?
[17:26] <lordievader> Luckily not. Else  systemd couldn't unlock the other disk.
[17:27] <lordievader> It unlocks the ssd first where the rootfs is on, it mounts root and unlocks the other disk with the key which resides on the rootfs.
[17:27] <alvin> wow
[17:28] <alvin> and the other disk is a normal disk? Don't you have performance issues when using both types in the same volume group?
[17:28] <alvin> Or am I behind the times?
[17:29] <lordievader> Performance issues?
[17:29] <lordievader> I specify by hand on wich disk every lv goes.
[17:29] <alvin> Ah, nice. Never done that either.
[17:30] <alvin> Well, it worked. Sort of. There's a grub menu. I can still boot Windows. But on booting Kubuntu there's a blank screen and the monitors go to sleep. Something must be missing.
[17:31] <lordievader> Boot up without the splash and quiet kernel parameters.
[17:34] <alvin> Let's see
[17:37] <alvin> Well, that's more helpful. It can't find the root device /dev/kubuntu/root, which is normal, since the passphrase was not asked.
[17:41] <jaafar> Hey people
[17:41] <jaafar> I'm getting some plasma crashes when I resume from sleep and change monitors (disconnect my primary and use the laptop screen) at the same time
[17:41] <jaafar> unfortunately I can't file a bug because the reporting tool can't find debug symbols for plasma.  Is there a package I can install?
[17:45] <genii> !info kde-workspace-dbg
[17:45] <genii> Hm
[17:55] <krytarik> !info plasma-workspace-dbg
[17:57] <krytarik> !info kde-workspace-dbg trusty
[18:23] <jaafar> yay krytarik I'll give it a try
[18:24] <krytarik> jaafar: Depending on your Kubuntu version, of course.
[18:24] <jaafar> hmz it doesn't know that one
[18:24] <jaafar> vivid is my version
[18:24] <jonbeebe> i read something about kubuntu's futuer up in the air ... is it really possible that 15.10 will be the last official kubuntu release?
[18:24] <jonbeebe> *future
[18:25] <krytarik> No.
[18:25] <jonbeebe> or is that just a bunch of hyperbole on the internet
[18:25] <krytarik> Yep.
[18:25] <jaafar> hmz, OK plasma, but:
[18:25] <jaafar> "plasma-workspace-dbg is already the newest version."
[18:25] <jaafar> so it's got it? or something
[18:29] <krytarik> jonbeebe: Well, for the record, almost *everything* is possible - some things are just less likely. :P
[18:30] <jonbeebe> cool, good to know
[19:20] <Alumin> coming from 12.04 LTS, I updated my laptop to 15.04 and noticed a few missing features and a lot of hard-lock crashes.  It's kinda reminiscent of the early days of KDE 4.x.  :)  I was wondering if there was a bit Qt version jump from 14.10 to 15.04
[19:21] <Alumin> the _real_ question I'm asking, though, is whether there was jump going into 14.04 LTS.  My concern here is that I'm about to upgrade my mom's computer from an ancient version (don't ask, heh) to 14.04 and while I can navigate around some instability, she won't be able to
[19:23] <Alumin> I would think/hope not, for an LTS release, but since I haven't used it myself I figured it'd be worth asking
[19:23] <krytarik> Alumin: http://www.kubuntu.org/news/kubuntu-15.04
[19:25] <Alumin> I guess that might explain it
[19:25] <krytarik> Yep. :)
[19:26] <alvin> Alumin: Try the packports. http://www.kubuntu.org/news/plasma-532-and-frameworks-5120-backported-kubuntu-1504 It'll give you a more stable experience.
[19:26] <Alumin> alvin: for my own part, I'm willing to blame the hardware.  That laptop is oooooooold
[19:26] <Alumin> I'll just go to 14.10 and then try 15.10 when it comes out
[19:27] <krytarik> !14.10
[19:27] <Alumin> I can fly by the seat of my pants.  I'm really just concerned for my mom
[19:27] <Alumin> 14.04 I mean
[19:27] <Alumin> the LTS
[19:28] <alvin> Hmm, the LTS is pretty stable, yes.
[19:28] <Alumin> I need something that does a thousand things and maybe explodes in my face occasionally
[19:28] <Alumin> she needs something that does three things and (almost) never burps :)
[19:31] <alvin> email, surfing, and?
[19:32] <krytarik> Small games. :P
[19:32] <krytarik> Or office stuff.
[19:35] <Alumin> nah, basically just Web browsing
[19:35] <Alumin> email is Web browsing for her :)
[19:35] <Alumin> I haven't shown her games yet
[19:35] <krytarik> lol
[19:35] <Alumin> dude
[19:35] <Alumin> she's not a gamer _at all_, not that type
[19:35] <Alumin> but she got so addicted to Tetris for the NES back in the day
[19:36] <Alumin> it was cute and scary at the same time
[19:36] <Alumin> I'm afraid what'll happen if she discovers Frozen Bubble
[19:39] <Alumin> she's a Craigslist master
[20:14] <xj3xx> hello
[20:15] <lordievader> o/
[21:36] <danielle331> Hi. How do I disable automatic login?
[21:36] <danielle331> From the command line
[21:36] <finetundra__> why not a desktop session?
[21:37] <danielle331> Cause my x.org is broken and this is the first step to solving that problem
[21:37] <finetundra__> oh gotcha
[21:37] <danielle331> And I am In a strange country with a laptop battery about to die and a bar about to kick me out
[21:39] <finetundra__> danielle331: oh god.
[21:39] <danielle331> My thoughts exactly
[21:40] <danielle331> It's like a malthusian choice where I can change either my phone or my laptop but not both
[21:42] <danielle331> So no idea about disabling automatic logins from vt1?
[21:42] <finetundra__> danielle331: you may have better luck in #ubuntu. This place can be pretty quite
[21:42] <finetundra__> And I'm really not the best at this kinda stuff
[21:43] <danielle331> Had a quick Google. Not sure about this but isn't the procedure different for unity?
[21:44] <danielle331> Cause sddm vs lightdm
[21:53] <finetundra__> danielle331: pretty sure kubuntu uses lightdm
[21:54] <danielle331> The problem with my x server is one where the cursor appears on screen but no desktop environment seems to load. It was preceeded by an unclean shutdown after my battery died...
[21:55] <finetundra__> danielle331: have you tried loading a different de?
[21:55] <finetundra__> plasma may have briken
[21:55] <finetundra__> *broken
[21:55] <danielle331> I can log in using a different user... Now that I've worked out how to disable auto login
[21:56] <finetundra__> danielle331: I think that I may have had this issue my self but it was ~3 months ago.
[21:57] <danielle331> I've had it before too. Not caused by an unclean shutdown tho..
[21:58] <finetundra__> danielle331: yeah. hmm...
[21:58] <finetundra__> you didn't try something like sudo startx did you?
[21:59] <finetundra__> danielle331: for god sake don't run sudop startx
[22:00] <finetundra__> *sudo
[22:00] <danielle441> lol alright I'll add to my list of things not to do
[22:00] <finetundra__> It'll just break things more
[22:00] <finetundra__> what have you tried so far?
[22:00] <danielle441> finetundra: so far I've tried restarting the display manager -- sudo /etc/init.d/sddm restart and sudo service sddm restart. that used to work sometimes with unity. I've never noticed it having any noticable effect on vt6 with plasma tho.
[22:01] <danielle441> tail various logs and dmesg didnt seem to say anything interesting..
[22:02] <danielle441> none of the other graphical VTs seem to work -- just a blinking underscore when I try ctrl-alt-f8 etc
[22:04] <finetundra__> danielle441: hmm
[22:07] <Finetundra> What version are you on?
[22:08] <finetundra__> danielle441: cause that may be of use
[22:10] <danielle441> 15.04
[22:10] <danielle441> so I dont know if this is of interest but heres my .xsession-errors: http://paste.ubuntu.com/12058202/
[22:11] <danielle441> It looks like there are some interesting errors in there...?
[22:12] <Finetundra> Umm.
[22:12] <Finetundra> You said that plasma loaded for another user yeah?
[22:13] <danielle441> yep I'm logged in as the other user just now
[22:13] <danielle441> have tried removing the .kde folder from my home directory, lets see if that works..
[22:14] <Finetundra> Umm
[22:14] <danielle331> Same problem - just the cursor, nothing else..
[22:16] <Finetundra> Be right back
[22:16] <danielle331> Okay
[22:18] <danielle551> I'm gonna have to leave soon...
[22:19] <danielle551> here is the most relevent error lines: http://paste.ubuntu.com/12058241/