[08:39] <tsdgeos> Saviq: https://code.launchpad.net/~aacid/unity8/remove_unused_applications_folder/+merge/197058 up
[08:39] <Saviq> tsdgeos, cheers
[08:48] <mhr3> sil2100, still no unity-scopes-api? :/
[08:50] <sil2100> didrocks: could you maybe NEW unity-scopes-api from the queue? As it seems people were a bit busyish yesterday :)
[08:51] <didrocks> sil2100: was it preNEWed?
[08:52] <seb128> didrocks, yes, I +1ed it
[08:52] <didrocks> ok, pushing buttons then
[08:52] <sil2100> didrocks: yes, before releasing by seb128, so it's all ok - it's waiting in the queue since 2 days
[08:52] <sil2100> didrocks: thank you!
[08:52] <didrocks> sil2100: done :)
[08:52] <didrocks> well, seb128 did the hard work ;)
[08:52] <sil2100> mhr3: tadaah!
[08:52] <didrocks> I just pushed a button
[08:52] <seb128> ;-)
[08:52] <sil2100> ;)
[08:52] <didrocks> (well 2 a checkbox + a button)
[08:52] <mhr3> weeeeeee!
[08:52] <didrocks> phew
[08:52] <didrocks> can go on week-end I gues now :p
[08:52] <seb128> sil2100, mhr3, didrocks: good morning, happy friday!
[08:52] <didrocks> happy friday seb128 ;)
[08:52] <didrocks> guess*
[08:53] <sil2100> Good morning! And a happy Friday indeed ;)
[08:53] <mhr3> seb128, a very black friday to you as well!
[08:53] <seb128> mhr3, you must be confused, I'm not one of those turkey eaters
[08:53] <seb128> we don't do that here
[08:53]  * seb128 doesn't shop today
[08:54] <mhr3> seb128, but you're still in northern hemisphere so it's dark-ish these days :)
[08:54] <seb128> I guess one can say that ...
[08:55] <Saviq> Black Friday will find you when you least expect it!
[08:56] <Saviq> like amazon.co.uk has BF deals ;)
[09:05] <Saviq> tsdgeos, mzanetti, hey, could one of you do https://code.launchpad.net/~gerboland/unity-mir/more-robust-desktop-file-parsing/+merge/190917 ? it's partly my code, so...
[09:06] <tsdgeos> sure
[09:06] <tsdgeos> i'll do
[09:08] <mzanetti> tsdgeos: please wait before approving. need to check something
[09:09] <tsdgeos> no no no
[09:09] <tsdgeos> i'll approve right away :-P
[09:12] <Saviq> mzanetti, dandrader you have a weird definition of "disregard" ;)
[09:12] <mzanetti> :P
[09:12] <Saviq> but thanks! ;)
[09:13] <dandrader> Saviq, I'm missing context
[09:13] <dandrader> cannot parse :)
[09:14] <Saviq> dandrader, the email last night
[09:14] <Saviq> dandrader, the testing one
[09:14] <dandrader> Saviq, ah right
[09:14] <dandrader> I just love replying to e-mail
[09:14] <Saviq> dandrader, oh, want some of mine? ;D
[09:15] <tsdgeos> Saviq: no tests in https://code.launchpad.net/~gerboland/unity-mir/more-robust-desktop-file-parsing/+merge/190917 ?¿
[09:15] <dandrader> Saviq, I would probably not be able to fill those replies with useful content though :)
[09:16] <Saviq> tsdgeos, right
[09:16] <Saviq> tsdgeos, ok leave a comment about that
[09:16] <Saviq> tsdgeos, good time as any to add them
[09:16] <Saviq> or actually the best time
[09:17] <tsdgeos> at least for the thing we're supposing to fix
[09:17] <tsdgeos> not for the whole thing
[09:18] <Saviq> tsdgeos, yeah
[09:18] <Cimi> Saviq, did I receive a mail at your 2:46am??
[09:18] <Cimi> Saviq, or is it your bot? :)
[09:18] <Saviq> Cimi, WHAAAAAT?!
[09:19] <Cimi> Saviq, the testing testing
[09:19] <Saviq> Cimi, read into the WHAAAAT
[09:19] <Saviq> ;P
[09:20] <Cimi> Saviq, go to bed and sleep boss :P
[09:21] <Saviq> Cimi, I did, soon thereafter
[09:22] <Cimi> I slept nothing, Evan invited me for the Thanksgiving turkey
[09:22] <Cimi> I had that much food I'm still digestng
[09:22] <Cimi> that was tough
[09:24] <Saviq> Cimi, shouldn't you be knifing your way through a mall now, then?
[09:24] <Cimi> Saviq, all I can say now is "burp"
[09:25] <Saviq> :D
[09:25] <Cimi> Saviq, I learnt so much last night about american traditions
[09:26] <Cimi> Saviq, for example why all americans take the whole week off to face thanksgiving
[09:26] <Saviq> ;)
[09:26] <Cimi> Saviq, and that's it's basically just an excuse to train your body for xmas lunch
[09:27] <Cimi> burp
[09:27] <tsdgeos> do you guys know if there's a launchpad page with "reviews i'm doing"?
[09:27] <Cimi> mmm
[09:27] <tsdgeos> i usually use https://code.launchpad.net/~unity-team/unity8/trunk/+activereviews and then head over the "Reviews I am doing" section
[09:27] <tsdgeos> but then https://code.launchpad.net/~gerboland/unity-mir/more-robust-desktop-file-parsing/+merge/190917 doesn't show up there
[09:28] <tsdgeos> because it's unity-mir and not unity8
[09:28] <Cimi> tsdgeos, https://code.launchpad.net/~cimi/+activereviews
[09:28] <tsdgeos> awesome!
[09:28] <tsdgeos> now that list some old old old reviews :D
[09:29] <Cimi> tsdgeos, yeah I realised it's kind of embarrassing :D
[09:29] <sil2100> hmmm
[09:30] <sil2100> Hi guys, did anyone of you notice unity7/bamf acting strangely since a while on the desktop?
[09:30] <seb128> sil2100, define "strangely", and no
[09:30] <tsdgeos> sil2100: like dropping all the indicators?
[09:30] <tsdgeos> at the moment i only have the messaging and keyboard one around
[09:30] <sil2100> seb128: for instance, if I open nautilus from the launcher, close it, and then click on the nautilus icon again - it doesn't want to start the app
[09:30] <tsdgeos> don't even know what time it is damnit!
[09:31] <sil2100> tsdgeos: that as well, but rarely!
[09:31] <seb128> tsdgeos, stop playing with unity8 in your sessions :p
[09:31] <sil2100> seb128: as if the launcher (bamf) didn't register that I closed the nautilus window
[09:31] <sil2100> I think I'll have to fill in a bug
[09:31] <seb128> sil2100, nop, no such issue here (and I didn't see any complain about it)
[09:31] <seb128> sil2100, are you running trusty or daily-build ppa?
[09:32] <sil2100> seb128: trusty, without daily-build
[09:32] <seb128> weird
[09:32] <seb128> is the issue specific to nautilus?
[09:33] <sil2100> seb128: no, it happens for every app here - like firefox as well, I have to open up firefox by middle-clicking on the icon as if I want to open a new window
[09:33] <seb128> weird
[09:33] <seb128> no, definitively not happening here
[09:33] <seb128> I would have noticed
[09:33] <sil2100> hmm, ok, I'll ask around and fill in a bug, maybe something wrong on my system
[09:34] <seb128> sil2100, does it happen in a guest session?
[09:34] <sil2100> seb128: I guess that's a good idea, I'll check that after the meeting
[09:37] <tsdgeos> Cimi: you proposed https://code.launchpad.net/~unity-team/unity/phablet.delay-highlight/+merge/150867 can we kill it?
[09:39]  * mzanetti wonders why an upgrade brings back the ebay app but doesn't bring back the amazon app
[09:39] <Cimi> tsdgeos, mmm how about the comment of that guy?
[09:41] <mzanetti> Cimi: tsdgeos: imho this is a bad thing to change
[09:41] <mzanetti> because the highlight is supposed to indicate that it will execute a press if you release now
[09:41] <mzanetti> there is no point in delaying that
[09:42] <tsdgeos> +1
[09:42] <tsdgeos> basically my "You can click on it without it ever being highlighed (not sure if that's bad, but seems weird to me)"
[09:42] <tsdgeos> Cimi: anyway i'm rejecting since it's against the wrong project
[09:42] <tsdgeos> "lp:unity/phablet"
[09:42] <Cimi> tsdgeos, ok
[09:46] <Saviq> mzanetti, tsdgeos, Cimi, yeah, the Flickable::pressDelay is meant to cater for that http://qt-project.org/doc/qt-5.0/qtquick/qml-qtquick2-flickable.html#pressDelay-prop
[09:46] <Saviq> but all in all, I don't think this is an issue any more, as we're not highlighting the whole items
[09:47] <tsdgeos> ok https://code.launchpad.net/~aacid/+activereviews is looking much better now that we've reject very old stuff :D
[09:47] <Saviq> and even if it is an issue, we'd need to solve it across the board, not just for unity8
[09:47] <tsdgeos> +1
[09:49] <Saviq> tsdgeos, what do you think we could do about the default Flickable velocities?
[09:49] <tsdgeos> Saviq: make them pixel density dependant
[09:49] <Saviq> tsdgeos, upstream, that is
[09:49] <tsdgeos> Saviq: there's a patch by Florian to properly implement that
[09:49] <Saviq> tsdgeos, ah ok
[09:49] <tsdgeos> in 5.[1|2]
[09:50] <tsdgeos> Saviq: that = proper pixel density reporting to Qt
[09:50] <tsdgeos> not sure it does indeed fix the flickable velocity
[09:50] <tsdgeos> but once we do report the proper pixel density stuff in the QPA
[09:50] <tsdgeos> if it doesn't work
[09:50] <tsdgeos> we should fix it upstream
[09:50] <tsdgeos> yes
[09:51] <Saviq> tsdgeos, works for me
[09:51] <tsdgeos> Saviq: mind if i reject https://code.launchpad.net/~paulliu/unity/phablet-fake-peoplepreviewdata/+merge/161514 ? since all the people* stuff is gone
[09:52] <Saviq> tsdgeos, +1
[10:20] <tsdgeos> dandrader: hi ho
[10:22] <dandrader> tsdgeos, hi ho
[10:22] <tsdgeos> dandrader: do you think it'd make sense to add to https://code.launchpad.net/~dandrader/unity8/runningAppsEndClose/+merge/196257 one test that uses touch and not mouseClick?
[10:28] <tsdgeos> Saviq: https://code.launchpad.net/~aacid/unity8/remove_unused_applications_folder/+merge/197058 aborted?
[10:28] <dandrader> tsdgeos, didn't get it
[10:29] <dandrader> tsdgeos, there are tests for mousePress and touch press
[10:29] <tsdgeos> are tehre?
[10:29] <dandrader> tsdgeos, yes
[10:29] <Saviq> tsdgeos, folks are fighting with some instabilities in CI AFAICT
[10:29] <tsdgeos> dandrader: not in tst_RunningApplicationsGrid.qml ?
[10:29] <Saviq> tsdgeos, I'll be monitoring
[10:29] <Saviq> /food, first
[10:29] <dandrader> tsdgeos,  ah, I'm talking about tst_PressedOutsideNotifier.cpp
[10:30] <tsdgeos> dandrader: so you think there's any value at all adding the test? or the one in tst_PressedOutsideNotifier.cpp should be enough?
[10:34] <dandrader> tsdgeos, yeah, I think tst_PressedOutsideNotifier on that regard
[10:34] <dandrader> is enough
[10:34] <tsdgeos> oki
[11:01] <MacSlow> Saviq, I've put up an unity-notifications-MR for for LP: #1256011 ... but what about LP: #1239421? I'm not sure what's required there... or can I leave that for Jussi?
[11:03] <tsdgeos> dandrader: what's the timer in tst_PressedOutsideNotifier.qml for?
[11:03]  * dandrader checks
[11:04] <dandrader> tsdgeos, ah, it's for the effect to be visible when manually testing
[11:04] <tsdgeos> right
[11:04] <dandrader> tsdgeos, otherwise you won't see it red for long enough
[11:11] <Saviq> MacSlow, the latter is about extracting abstract base classes from unity-notifications into unity-api (or well, adapting the ones that are already there)
[11:11] <Saviq> MacSlow, and making use of them in unity-notifications, as well as running the test suite from unity-api against unity-notifications
[11:11] <nic-doffay__> greyback, ping
[11:12] <MacSlow> Saviq, ok
[11:13] <Saviq> MacSlow, but yeah, it's not necessarily something you should be doing
[11:14] <MacSlow> Saviq, true... I don't want to "hijack" lp:unity-notifications ...
[11:14] <MacSlow> Saviq, the CMakeFile fix was harmless... but 1239421 look more involved and I rather leave that to the API-team
[11:14] <tsdgeos> dandrader: technically window(); could return null in setupEventFiltering when removed from a scene, do we care about that?
[11:15] <Saviq> MacSlow, +1
[11:15] <MacSlow> Saviq, today is review/cleanup-day anyway
[11:17] <dandrader> tsdgeos,  it's only called from within  " if (isEnabled() && window()) {} "
[11:17] <dandrader> tsdgeos, so if window() returns null there it *should* crash
[11:17] <tsdgeos> dandrader: it certainly is
[11:17] <tsdgeos> ok
[11:19] <dandrader> tsdgeos, but maybe a Q_ASSERT(currentWindow) would go in order to state intention
[11:19] <tsdgeos> dandrader: it's ok to me either way
[11:24] <Saviq> MacSlow, did you test https://code.launchpad.net/~mzanetti/unity8/desktopfile-to-appid/+merge/197154 extensively on the device? That launcher, home apps, installed apps, webapps all still work fine?
[11:24] <Saviq> mzanetti, think we could test ↑?
[11:24] <mzanetti> Saviq: this only names the arguments actually
[11:24] <mzanetti> doesn't really change anything in the logic
[11:25] <mzanetti> but sure. I'll do another test run
[11:26] <Saviq> mzanetti, no I mean if we have some automated tests for this - if not, now would be a good time to add them
[11:28] <mzanetti> Saviq: yep. there are tests
[11:29] <Saviq> mzanetti, ok
[11:29] <mzanetti> Saviq: tst_Shell.qml: test_tapOnAppIconInLauncher()
[11:29] <mzanetti> Saviq: that runs through this
[11:34] <MacSlow> Saviq, not all... but I can repeat it with more checks
[11:37] <tsdgeos> dandrader|lunch: how are you ahving lunch before me if you're like more to the west?
[11:37] <tsdgeos> :D
[11:38] <tsdgeos> dandrader|lunch: anyway, i was wondering if we can't just hijack the touch event by returning true at some point in the evenFilter and save us from all that timer stuff which looks a bit hacky
[11:38] <MacSlow> tsdgeos, by being really hungry? ;)
[11:39] <Saviq> tsdgeos, MacSlow and getting up at 4am ;)
[11:39] <tsdgeos> that too
[11:39] <MacSlow> Saviq, an empty stomach make one do crazy things :)
[11:41] <MacSlow> today is also "let's forget 3rd-person s"-day
[11:43] <Saviq> [08:29:48] *** Joins: dandrader
[11:43] <Saviq> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/converted.html?iso=20131129T0830&p1=664&p2=213
[11:44] <Saviq> he's preventing jetlag ;)
[11:45] <MacSlow> Saviq, mzanetti: really nothing fails with lp:~mzanetti/unity8/desktopfile-to-appid
[11:45] <Saviq> MacSlow, that's good 'innit
[12:12] <dandrader> tsdgeos, I started working at 5:30 am, so lunch at 9:30 am :)
[12:13] <dandrader> tsdgeos, and as a bonus a nice sunny afternoon to go outside after work
[12:14] <tsdgeos> +1
[12:14] <dandrader> tsdgeos, the point is to not interfere with the normal event processing. we're just monitoring it, not filtering it out
[12:16] <dandrader> tsdgeos, but I do agree that that timer is not the best thing in the world, thus the big comment
[12:19] <tsdgeos> dandrader: ok, can you write that comment "the not interfere" thing in the MR so it's there for posterity if we ever go back and wonder why it was done that way?
[12:28] <dandrader> tsdgeos, done
[12:35] <nic-doffay__> Saviq, the filters should be testable in a couple of days again.
[12:50] <mhr3> sil2100, ping?
[12:50] <sil2100> mhr3: pung
[12:50] <mhr3> sil2100, which was the ppa i can use?
[12:51] <sil2100> mhr3: ppa:ubuntu-unity/daily-build-next
[12:51] <mhr3> sil2100, i'm afraid i don't have upload rights there
[12:51] <sil2100> Wait, you're not part of ubuntu-unity?
[12:52] <mhr3> doesn't seem so
[12:52] <mhr3> can someone add me?
[12:52] <mhr3> didrocks, ^?
[12:52] <sil2100> I guess you should be, as you're working on unity stuff
[12:53] <sil2100> didrocks: you think that's possible to do? Need to check who's an admin as well
[12:53] <mhr3> didrocks is admin :)
[12:53] <didrocks> mhr3: hum, I can't add you to that team for policy reason
[12:53] <didrocks> because it would give an indirect way for you to upload to the archive :)
[12:54] <mhr3> didrocks, you don't trusty me? :P
[12:54] <didrocks> mhr3: ahah, not that question, but I don't want to rediscuss with the tech board about who can be in that team :p
[12:56] <mhr3> can someone with proper rights create the recipe and i'll be just firing it from time to time?
[12:56] <mzanetti> bbiab
[12:57] <mhr3> not sure if that would work
[12:57] <mhr3> but let's give it a try?
[12:57] <mhr3> sil2100, ^
[12:58] <didrocks> mhr3: yep, neat idea!
[12:59] <mhr3> and i hope you guys made sure that pkgs from that ppa won't bubble through some script to the distro automagically
[12:59] <didrocks> mhr3: well, as long as it's in daily-build-next, it won't
[12:59] <mhr3> good
[12:59] <didrocks> we only wire up daily-build ppa
[13:00] <didrocks> but we can't have per ppa upload rights
[13:01] <mhr3> i guess ubuntu-unity has to own the recipe though, otherwise i'll fail to upload?
[13:07] <sil2100> Uuuu
[13:07] <sil2100> I forgot that ubuntu-unity became so important ;p
[13:47] <Saviq> didrocks, think we should put "kill timeout 30" by default in the unity8 upstart job?
[13:48] <Saviq> didrocks, so that we get meaningful .crash files from QA?
[13:48] <didrocks> Saviq: is 30 enough?
[13:48] <didrocks> on maguro?
[13:48] <Saviq> didrocks, will test first
[13:48] <didrocks> Saviq: yeah, try maguro first I guess, and tweak the value for it
[13:48] <didrocks> on the idea +1
[13:48] <Saviq> didrocks, there can even be a test for it, FWIW
[13:49] <Saviq> didrocks, ok, will ponder some
[13:49] <didrocks> you send a SIGINT to unity8, ask upstart to stop it, yeah ;)
[13:52] <Saviq> didrocks, actually no, I though of sending SIGSEGV
[13:53] <Saviq> didrocks, and making sure apport completes before unity8 is killed
[13:53] <didrocks> Saviq: yeah, that's another way of seeing it (not sure all stacktraces are equals though! ;))
[13:53] <Saviq> didrocks, will wait for the shell to be ready first
[13:54] <Saviq> didrocks, and that should make it pretty real
[13:56]  * Saviq needs a HOWTO for working with errors.u.c
[13:57] <mhr3> saviq, you can ask ev next week :)
[13:57] <Saviq> mhr3, yeah
[13:59] <Saviq> didrocks, only thing I'm worried about is that if we let it linger for 30s, the screen might go to sleep before apport completes :/
[14:00] <didrocks> Saviq: shouldn't whoopsie blocks suspend?
[14:00] <didrocks> I meant, this is in the kernel
[14:00] <didrocks> not whoopsie
[14:00] <didrocks> so should be fine and not powering off?
[14:00] <Saviq> didrocks, different than screen being turned off
[14:00] <Saviq> didrocks, I don't mean the whole device
[14:00] <Saviq> didrocks, but just the screen
[14:01] <didrocks> what's the issue then?
[14:12] <Saviq> didrocks, when it turns off, u8 will fail to start next time
[14:37] <greyback> Saviq: I find your lack of respect for Y-fronts disturbing
[14:37] <nic-doffay__> Saviq, can you recall where the sdk icons are installed to?
[14:38] <nic-doffay__> greyback, lool
[14:38] <Saviq> greyback, I googled y-front
[14:38] <Saviq> greyback, I blame YOU
[14:38] <greyback> Saviq: XD
[14:38] <nic-doffay__> Saviq, >_<
[14:38] <Saviq> greyback, you owe me for therapy
[14:38] <nic-doffay__> Saviq, try magic underpants
[14:38] <Saviq> nic-doffay__, no. kthxbai
[14:39] <nic-doffay__> greyback, distress
[14:41] <nic-doffay__> mzanetti, can you recall where the icons are installed which the Icon class accesses?
[14:41] <nic-doffay__> I remember chatting about this to you before.
[14:43] <mzanetti> nic-doffay__: dpkg -L ubuntu-mobile-icons
[14:43] <nic-doffay__> mzanetti, cheers
[14:50] <nic-doffay__> Saviq, re your comment in the filters 'We've decided this will have to wait for the upcoming new scope backend.'
[14:50] <nic-doffay__> Can you let me know when I should take up development on the branch actively again?
[14:50] <Saviq> nic-doffay__, of course, will do
[14:50] <nic-doffay__> Saviq, wicked
[15:09] <Saviq> mhr3, pstolowski looking at https://launchpadlibrarian.net/157889220/StacktraceSource.txt
[15:09] <Saviq> bug #1256342 is actually a mediascanner one then
[15:10] <Saviq> potentially a dupe of 1239561 ?
[15:10] <Saviq> bug #1239561
[15:11] <mhr3> hard to say from that bug
[15:11] <mhr3> anyway, mediascanner is waving byebye
[15:11] <mhr3> so i guess we don't care
[15:11] <pstolowski> :)
[15:24] <tsdgeos> Saviq: ok, so here it is https://code.launchpad.net/~aacid/dee-qt/more_tests/+merge/197220 who do you think can review?
[15:25] <Saviq> tsdgeos, try forcing mhr3's or pstolowski's hand for this ;)
[15:26] <tsdgeos> pstolowski: do you think you can review https://code.launchpad.net/~aacid/dee-qt/more_tests/+merge/197220 ? It's an old branch from kalikiana that i've reused some tests
[15:27] <mhr3> tsdgeos, last time i checked dee-qt had ~96% test coverage
[15:27] <tsdgeos> mhr3: feel free to reject it :D
[15:28] <tsdgeos> i'm just trying to salvage the tests
[15:28] <tsdgeos> but if you don't think we need them
[15:28] <tsdgeos> fine
[15:29] <mhr3> it has lots of changes that are clearly not just test-related
[15:30] <tsdgeos> like?
[15:30] <tsdgeos> i can count 2 changes that are not test related
[15:31] <tsdgeos> 3
[15:31] <mhr3> append() remove() model()
[15:31] <tsdgeos> they are totally test related
[15:31] <tsdgeos> i even say so on the comment i made
[15:32] <mhr3> but that turns read-only dee wrapper into read-write, which i'd say is a big thing
[15:32] <tsdgeos> well if you read the comment i made
[15:32] <tsdgeos> it would be great
[15:32] <mhr3> oh :)
[15:32] <mhr3> i read only description on new mps :P
[15:32] <mhr3> which isn't there btw
[15:32] <tsdgeos> it's not my fault you decide to read only half of the stuff
[15:35] <mhr3> replied
[15:38] <didrocks> Saviq: urgh, right, can you kick as post-stop script the screen on?
[15:38] <Saviq> didrocks, pre-start rather, but I'm not sure i want to...
[15:39] <Saviq> didrocks, the bug just needs to be fixed, bug #1235000
[15:39] <didrocks> Saviq: yeah, agreed
[15:40] <Saviq> didrocks, it got converted into a blueprint WI, actually
[15:40] <didrocks> Saviq: do you know about the priority?
[15:41] <didrocks> I guess it's what making the tests flacky on our infra sometimes
[15:41] <Saviq> didrocks, it involves a bigger move of responsibility from powerd to the shell
[15:42] <didrocks> so, you think not going to happen anytime soon?
[15:42] <Saviq> didrocks, no one is working on it atm AFAIK
[15:42] <didrocks> Saviq: maybe the workaround (dully commented) would make sense then, wdyt?
[15:43] <Saviq> didrocks, let's see next week, we might just schedule that work instead
[15:43] <didrocks> Saviq: ok, let's keep in touch
[15:43] <didrocks> Saviq: but come on, it's Friday evening, it's time to take important decision :)
[15:43] <didrocks> upload
[15:43] <didrocks> and forget ;)
[15:44] <Saviq> didrocks, also, I'm not sure I want to make people wait for 30s for their shell to restart...
[15:44] <Saviq> didrocks, by default, that is
[15:44] <didrocks> Saviq: hum, maybe autopilot should ship a different upstart job
[15:44] <didrocks> Saviq: that would make sense
[15:44] <didrocks> or ogra's developer mode
[15:44] <didrocks> let me put that on a sticky note
[15:45] <Saviq> didrocks, just an .override is enough
[15:45] <Saviq> didrocks, yeah, I'd say dev mode
[15:45] <didrocks> Saviq: yeah, I wonder just if that should be in autopilot or in a "developer mode"
[15:45] <didrocks> yeah, I would tend for the second as well
[16:05] <pstolowski> tsdgeos, added a comment
[16:05] <tsdgeos> tx
[16:10] <Saviq> greyback, bug #1256360 - somewhere between u-mir and mir?
[16:10] <Saviq> greyback, happens *rarely* on shutdown
[16:10] <greyback> Saviq: whoa
[16:10] <Saviq> greyback, yeah
[16:11] <greyback> Saviq: I'd guess more a Mir bug. Will reassign
[16:11] <Saviq> greyback, yeah, indeed
[16:14]  * Saviq is happy with our release yesterday - a ton of bugs fixed, quite some new features *and* no apparent regressions :)
[16:15] <tsdgeos> noones mad yet?
[16:17] <Saviq> tsdgeos, exactly!
[16:17]  * Saviq pressed ctrl+shift+m in Firefox... nice!
[16:20] <Saviq> tsdgeos, btw, when reading the dash doc, please do comment anywhere you have doubts
[16:20] <tsdgeos> ok
[16:29] <tsdgeos> anyone has a clue of what "Smart casual" means as dress code in the x-mas party?
[16:29] <tsdgeos> so i need to bring my suit?
[16:32] <Saviq> tsdgeos, http://lmgtfy.com/?q=smart+casual :)
[16:32] <tsdgeos> Saviq: it has *evetything* in it
[16:33] <tsdgeos> not really helpful :D
[16:33] <Saviq> tsdgeos, exactly :)
[16:33] <Saviq> tsdgeos, !shorts, basically ;)
[16:33] <tsdgeos> damn! here i was in london december hoping to wear shorts
[16:34] <Saviq> tsdgeos, you'll be amazed! ;D
[16:35] <tsdgeos> i'm not from the north pole :D
[16:43] <mhr3> tsdgeos, just yesterday i saw a guy walking in shorts and tshirt :P
[16:43] <tsdgeos> mhr3: he most have been from the north pole
[16:43] <tsdgeos> or he was incredibly drunk
[16:44] <tsdgeos> Saviq: can't find any real doubt that you have not asked already
[16:44] <mhr3> tsdgeos, it's actually surprisingly warm for end of november
[16:44] <mhr3> although not shorts-warm
[16:45] <Saviq> tsdgeos, good :)
[16:45] <tsdgeos> that said i'm got to head off for a nice eod
[16:45] <tsdgeos> talk to you on sunday/monday
[16:45] <tsdgeos> s/talk/see
[16:46]  * tsdgeos waves
[17:15] <mhr3> robru, ping?
[17:15] <robru> mhr3, hey
[17:58] <om26er> JFYI -- new unity8 is crashy.
[18:11] <mzanetti> om26er: hmm... details?
[18:12] <om26er> mzanetti, the number of random crashes have topped with the latest release. I am going to start reporting bugs for that.
[18:13] <om26er> Also it seems Music scope is broken. You can see music carousel but you cannot open any preview
[18:13] <mzanetti> om26er: hmm... what version are you talking about?
[18:14] <om26er> mzanetti, 7.84+14.04.20131128.2-0ubuntu1
[18:15] <mhr3> saviq, i have a new job title for you "merge re-approver" ;)
[18:16] <mzanetti> mhr3: I'm sure he has a bot for that
[18:16] <mzanetti> unless Cimi's suspicion is true indeed
[18:16] <mhr3> mzanetti, i think he has bot for all the other stuff and reapproving merges is the only thing he does ;)
[18:16] <mzanetti> :D
[18:17] <Saviq> shh
[18:22] <mhr3> saviq, btw does https://launchpadlibrarian.net/157894305/buildlog.txt.gz rings any bells?
[18:53] <Saviq> mhr3, nope, what that?
[18:53] <Saviq> mhr3, can try to see in local sbuild
[18:53] <Saviq> ah lp:~unity-team/unity8/new-scopes
[18:57] <Saviq> aaaargh
[18:57] <Saviq> why does bzr bd suddenly complain about changes grrrh
[19:07] <Saviq> mhr3, built just fine here
[19:07] <Saviq> mhr3, it looks like some python package failure
[19:08] <Saviq> since python:any (>= 2.7) which is a virtual package., python3:any which is a virtual package.
[19:09] <Saviq> mhr3, does that go into daily-build-next?
[19:09] <Saviq> mhr3, maybe that's why it fails?
[19:11] <Saviq> hmm no, the ppa is almost empty for trusty..
[19:12] <Saviq> aargh and now timeouts and OOPSes from LP
[19:13] <Saviq> oh and I can't even restart it :/
[19:14] <Saviq> mhr3, there seems to have been some python transition happening (I just got new py3.3), maybe that's why
[19:15] <Saviq> robru, hey, could you please kick another build of https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-unity/+recipe/unity8-daily-custom ?
[19:15] <Saviq> or shed any light on the dependency wait...
[19:16] <robru> Saviq, were any steps taken to fix the dependencies?
[19:16] <Saviq> robru, probably not... the deps are fine, it just built in sbuild for me locally
[19:16] <Saviq> wonder if W: GPG error: http://ppa.launchpad.net trusty Release: The following signatures couldn't be verified because the public key is not available: NO_PUBKEY 4551428E52D62F45 has any bearing
[19:18] <robru> Saviq, ok i can kick the build but i'm not very familiar with that recipe. the missing dependencies don't make sense to me
[19:18] <Saviq> robru, yeah they don't
[19:18] <Saviq> robru, most probably the kick won't do anything
[19:19] <robru> Saviq, ask sil2100 i guess? he made the recipe.
[19:19] <Saviq> robru, doesn't matter the recipe, really... it's just unity8 + some changes on top
[19:19] <Saviq> robru, and python:any (>= 2.7)... kind of should be there
[19:20] <Saviq> robru, anyway, nevermind, we'll see next week
[19:20] <robru> Saviq, last time i saw an error like that, it was because the version being depended on hadn't finished building in the archive yet.
[19:20] <Saviq> robru, yeah, I just got py3.3 update
[19:21] <Saviq> robru, so the builds will kick in again when the dependency is fulfilled?
[19:21] <robru> Saviq, i mean more like this kind of thing: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~unity-team/unity8/new-scopes/view/head:/debian/control#L71 where you specify a certain version. although that one is months old so i don't see why it would hold it back...
[19:21] <robru> Saviq, mmm, no, launchpad recipes only rebuild when there are commits to the branches references in the recipe. it won't know anything about the dependencies.
[19:22] <Saviq> robru, ok, please just kick a build for the sake of making sure that (doesn't) help
[19:22] <robru> Saviq, yeah, already did
[19:22] <Saviq> robru, ok thanks
[19:25] <Saviq> alesage, https://code.launchpad.net/~allanlesage/unity8/indicator-stubs/+merge/192059/comments/456254
[19:25] <Saviq> alesage, got lost in all the jenkins messages
[19:25] <Saviq> alesage, just drop the ": undefined"
[19:25] <alesage> Saviq, o ok, my mistake, I see
[19:26] <alesage> Saviq, yes I confess to scrolling too much :/
[19:31] <Saviq> alesage, no worries :)
[19:50] <mhr3> saviq, i already brought it up with seb and on #ubuntu-devel, might be something with the builders, was just wondering if you haven't seen it before
[19:51] <mhr3> simple no would do :)
[20:32] <Saviq> mhr3, I don't do "simple no" ;)
[20:32] <Saviq> no go, unfortunately


[10:59] <jussi> o/
[10:59] <elky> o/
[10:59] <rww> o-|-<
[11:00] <elky> o-/-<
[11:00] <topyli> heyhey
[11:00] <elky> topyli doesn't want to dance with us, rww :(
[11:00] <topyli> i do, but only for 40 minutes max
[11:00] <topyli> have to take wife to doctor, she is ill
[11:01] <elky> then we'd better start
[11:01] <jussi> #startmeeting
[11:01] <meetingology> Meeting started Sat Oct  8 11:01:21 2011 UTC.  The chair is jussi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
[11:01] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[11:01] <topyli> i shouldn't chair
[11:01] <topyli> ah thanks jussi
[11:01] <jussi> #topic Bugs
[11:01] <jussi> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-irc-council
[11:02] <elky> I thought he fixed that...
[11:02] <jussi> Anyway, theres just the one bug.
[11:02] <jussi> any updates from anyone?
[11:02] <topyli> there's also an action item appointed to me and jussi, not done
[11:02] <topyli> (related to this bug)
[11:03] <jussi> Oh far out, Id forgotten about that - lets make sure we get that done by next time
[11:03] <topyli> yeah
[11:03] <jussi> right, next topic.
[11:03] <jussi> #topic Review last meetings action items
[11:04] <jussi> ACTION: nhandler to look into extending eir nag frequency and getting ubottu to show BT urls, with assistance from tsimpson
[11:04] <jussi> and the one topyli has mentioned
[11:04] <topyli> i think nhandler has done this
[11:04] <topyli> oh not the urls
[11:04] <elky> I believe that was done by collaboration between alanbell and staff actually
[11:04] <jussi> That one has been partially done but both nhandler and tsimpson are now not really around
[11:05] <rww> eir is currently set to nag every six hours, so I think that bit's sorted.
[11:05] <jussi> yeah
[11:06] <jussi> anywayp, not much more we can do at this time on that.
[11:06] <elky> next item then?
[11:06] <jussi> right, so the next item is discussion only, we dont expect to be making a decision today on how this will happen
[11:07] <jussi> #topic Make Lubuntu channels core after Oneiric release
[11:07] <jussi> topyli: want to summarise?
[11:08] <topyli> the main thing here is adding ops to -ops instead of -irc i think, and make sure their conduct is in line with the rest of the team (i.e. following the leadership guidelines and other documentation)
[11:08] <topyli> the channel works, no issue there afaik
[11:09] <topyli> this doesn't have to happen one second after release, but eventually core is core
[11:09] <elky> *if* it happens.
[11:09] <rww> The channel works because it is tiny, not necessarily because it is correctly run.
[11:10] <rww> As I've mentioned to the IRCC, I have serious misgivings about adding the current set of #lubuntu operators as core ops, and strongly recommend that they go through an application process to weed out unqualified ops and add qualified ones.
[11:10] <elky> I personally have strong doubts of the wisdom of putting them in -ops. I think it to be frankly unwise.
[11:10] <topyli> if the channel grows as a result of lubuntu being official, and/or starts attracting more trolls, we'll help grow the team
[11:10] <rww> The channel itself I have no problem with being core. I do have a problem with the way IRCC seems to be planning to go about it.
[11:10] <jussi> I dont think the discussion is about whether the channel becomes core - that to me seems a given. (in line with our policy of what is core and what isnt).
[11:11] <topyli> well, any ops that are unsuitable will be dealt with just like everybody else, and new ops will be sought as necessary
[11:11] <elky> jussi, the policy would need to be rewritten if you're going to us the policy as any form of argument for this.
[11:11] <elky> the policy simply does not handle this situation at all
[11:11] <elky> s/us/use/
[11:12] <elky> topyli, we are poor at dealing with troublesome ops we already have.
[11:12] <topyli> the policy is fine IMO
[11:12] <topyli> elky: that's a completely different issue
[11:12] <rww> topyli: Would this be before or after we give them access to the bantracker that some of them have notable entries in? It's already after giving them access to the channel that some of their behavior outside of #lubuntu has been discussed in.
[11:13] <rww> which was an action I also strongly disagreed with, and which I feel was made despite a shocking lack of communication with the IRC team
[11:13] <elky> the policy is not at all fine if it would allow people who got to a project channel first, unrelatedly to the development team who earned the right to be official, automatic ops.
[11:13] <AlanBell> o/
[11:15] <topyli> so what is your suggestion? get rid of the current lubuntu ops and install some that you like better? that doesn't seem doable, the project will likely change networks then
[11:15] <rww> topyli: No, my suggestion as I have told you already is to open applications for #lubuntu ops, have all current #lubuntu ops that want to continue to be #lubuntu ops go through it, have anyone else who wants #lubuntu ops go through it, and then set the access list to contain people who pass that process.
[11:15] <AlanBell> my suggestion is to make them new core ops, on probation like all new core ops
[11:15] <elky> if they're threatening to flounce to another network, i really don't want them as ops.
[11:16] <AlanBell> elky: I think that is speculation, not a threat by them
[11:16] <jussi> AlanBell: this is also my view.
[11:16] <elky> AlanBell, except not. because there hasn't been the pre-selection process.
[11:16] <topyli> rww: that is entirely possible and i might even support it
[11:16] <LjL> i don't think they should get a free pass.
[11:16] <topyli> AlanBell: it is speculation
[11:17] <elky> please don't speculate on that matter then, please. it's caused enough issues already in the discussion with them
[11:17] <AlanBell> ok, so how to back-fill the preselection process
[11:17] <rww> AlanBell: translate into English, please?
[11:17] <elky> AlanBell, read what rww wrote above
[11:18] <topyli> well if you hijack a project, get rid of their people and install yours, you're not going to have a happy ending
[11:18] <elky> rww, he's asked for the idea you provided earlier
[11:18] <jussi> topyli: ++
[11:18] <rww> topyli: We're not hijacking a project. The project is asking to be managed by the IRC team, so they have to play by our rules.
[11:18] <rww> If they don't want to, they can feel free to not be a core channel.
[11:18] <LjL> topyli: did someone order them to become a core project?
[11:18] <elky> rww ++
[11:18] <elky> in which case the policy is broken
[11:18] <rww> It'd be regrettable, but it's voluntary on their part as far as I know, and should be.
[11:19] <topyli> rww: your idea about having the ops go through our normal process is pretty good
[11:19] <elky> LjL, the core channels policy is.
[11:19] <jussi> The lubuntu people in as far as I know are somewhat resistant to being managed by the ircc.
[11:19] <elky> LjL, because it's broken.
[11:19] <AlanBell> sounds fine to me
[11:19] <topyli> LjL: of course not. not me anyway :)
[11:19] <rww> jussi: If the Lubuntu people aren't sure about whether they want to be managed by IRCC, perhaps they should go figure that out and come back if they decide they do.
[11:20] <jussi> rww: there is no choice, if they are a official derivative, they come under the ircc, as they come under the cc, fc etc
[11:20] <elky> this discussion is getting circular.
[11:20] <LjL> right but i don't suppose someone ordered them to be an official derivative either?
[11:20] <oCean> fwiw, I'm all for rww's suggestion too
[11:20] <rww> jussi: This is not my interpretation of the IRC Council's scope.
[11:21] <topyli> the CC has asked the IRCC to manage ubuntu channels, that's reality
[11:21] <rww> Given that official derivatives have left freenode before, I find it difficult to believe, too.
[11:21] <head_victim> o/
[11:21] <rww> (that all official derivatives are managed by IRCC automatically, that is)
[11:21] <jussi> heya head_victim
[11:21] <topyli> well we can't manage channels on other networks, that's unrealistic
[11:22] <head_victim> As a Lubuntu Op (a little inactive but still) I'd just like to say, I'm all for most of what you're proposing (not speaking on behalf of anyone but myself)
[11:22] <topyli> rww: that's the current policy
[11:22] <jussi> If there is an official derivative channel on freenode, then the ircc is the governing body.
[11:22] <elky> head_victim, for what who is proposing? there's two conflicting proposals here.
[11:22] <head_victim> Either the apply like others or probation, I can see merits in both.
[11:23] <elky> head_victim, there'll be probation as part of applying like others
[11:23] <elky> all new ops get probation.
[11:23] <rww> topyli: This is incorrect. Addition or removal of channels from the core channel list is at the discretion of the IRCC.
[11:23] <head_victim> elky: and makes perfect sense.
[11:23] <elky> head_victim, i think so too
[11:24] <jussi> Im more than happy to have the lubuntu ops on probation, but I think we need to give all of them a chance.
[11:24] <rww> topyli: You appear to be conflating "managed" in the sense of core channels that are staffed by the IRC team and "managed" in the sense of functioning as group contacts and facilitating the wishes of relevant councils.
[11:24] <elky> jussi, that is the critical issue we disagree on.
[11:24] <head_victim> I'd also like a little "welcome package" with some links to some reading to make sure I am doing my job properly.
[11:24] <rww> jussi: I strongly disagree.
[11:24] <topyli> rww: true, we can add channels. but removing channels that are support or development of an official derivative would be something i can't support
[11:25] <elky> There are several ops in the currentl #lubuntu ops list who I would never in a million years consider to be an op based on previous behaviour by them.
[11:25] <LjL> jussi: i'm quite strongly opposed to giving a chance to someone who's got many relevant bantracker entries, though. i don't know who these people are, but it goes against my every instinct.
[11:25] <rww> jussi: I feel no need to give people that have demonstrated significant issues that disqualify them from opping our existing core channels a chance. Chances are earned, and they have not.
[11:26] <elky> I can not and will not support troublesome people getting a shortcut on the ops process. We may as well just shortcut all the trolls as well.
[11:26] <topyli> that's just not a very useful comparison
[11:26] <elky> if we shortcut anyone, we have to apply the same benefit to all
[11:27] <elky> I refuse to apply the same benefit to anyone who wants to be an op
[11:27] <elky> if we apply the shortcut to everyone, the worst will apply
[11:28] <rww> If someone applied for #ubuntu ops and had a history of being k-lined on multiple networks, or flagrant op abuse in #ubuntu* non-core channels, or a demonstrated inability to do simple channel operation despite repeated instruction, I would say exactly the same thing in email to IRCC as I have said in email to IRCC about this.
[11:28] <topyli> ok so this seems to be the disagreement. we agree that there should be a call for #lubuntu ops and the current ops can apply to be ops, and they go through the normal probation etc. but we don't know whether or not the current ops should be auto-chosen
[11:29] <elky> topyli, yes, i stated as much earlier.
[11:29] <topyli> yep, and i have been unable to convince you otherwise :)
[11:29] <rww> And the ridiculous thing here is that you all know dang well that if some of the people on #lubuntu's access list applied for ops in any core channel they wouldn't get it.
[11:29] <elky> because i refuse to do what i see as being negligent.
[11:30] <rww> I'm not sure if you're ignoring it because of politics or what, but it's a bit ridiculous that you are.
[11:30] <oCean> the "normal application process" and "auto chosen" are conflicting anyway, not?
[11:30] <rww> oCean: yes
[11:30] <topyli> yes
[11:30] <elky> absolutely
[11:31] <topyli> we could simply merge the team with our team and be done with it. but i agree that the usual probation and mentoring would be useful
[11:32] <elky> er...
[11:32] <elky> i should hope that the usual probation and mentoring would happen either way. if not, i don't have words to describe my opinion of your idea.
[11:32] <oCean> I don't see why "auto chosen" (or "simply merge" is still an option, if there is going to be an application process anyway
[11:33] <rww> oCean: because Lubuntu's leadership are unhappy that their choice of ops is being questioned, and leaning on IRCC to approve them all.
[11:33] <elky> oCean, because some people want to skip the application process wholesale from my undertanding
[11:34] <topyli> so normal process without any automatic opping seems popular. we'll have to see what the lubuntu team thinks, if they can accept it or if we have to find another way to deal with the situation. i have to go, but that's my idea
[11:34] <jussi> topyli: I can support that
[11:34] <oCean> rww, elky ok, I did not know/get that part
[11:34] <topyli> you can action it to me, i'm off
[11:35] <jussi> elky: ?
[11:37] <elky> I'm not sure what i would be supporting there? It's seeming a little like a hostage situation.
[11:37] <jussi> elky: its supporting your proposal if all parties support it.
[11:37] <elky> jussi, I support that. The second part of what topyli says i don't.
[11:37] <rww> If Lubuntu doesn't like IRCC procedures and the CC has in fact mandated that #lubuntu become core (which I don't believe they have, personally), Lubuntu can get over it.
[11:38] <rww> They picked some crap ops, it's their fault this is happening in the first place.
[11:38] <elky> rww I don't think the development team did much of the op picking actually.
[11:38] <rww> In the event that there is not in fact a mandate that #lubuntu become core, they can feel free to not be core.
[11:38] <elky> which means we're essentially dealing with 2 lubuntus
[11:38] <rww> elky: then who did?
[11:39] <elky> rww, at least one of the ops would have been self-chosen
[11:39] <rww> elky: That is absurd.
[11:39] <AlanBell> so an existing good lubuntu op, from today could go through the whole process without being deopped at any stage
[11:39] <elky> rww, then who started the channel?
[11:39] <jussi> AlanBell: yes
[11:39] <rww> elky: whoever started Lubuntu, I would hope.
[11:40] <rww> elky: anyway, it's immaterial. Regardless of who got on there themselves, #lubuntu's standards for granting ops are demonstrably flawed.
[11:40] <elky> yes.
[11:41] <rww> or, at least, flawed for #lubuntu-qua-core-channel. They may work fine for #lubuntu as it is.
[11:43] <elky> i dont doubt it works fine for its existance right now. That's not the consequence at stake
[11:43] <jussi> right, I have a friend just arriving, I will action topyli to send an email to the lubuntu list informing them of the application process etc.
[11:43] <elky> you might as well end the meeting now, topyli is well gone i suspet
[11:43] <jussi> #action topyli Send informative email to #lubuntu ops list, with guidelines and application stuff
[11:43] <meetingology> ACTION: topyli Send informative email to #lubuntu ops list, with guidelines and application stuff
[11:44] <jussi> #endmeeting
[11:44] <meetingology> Meeting ended Sat Oct  8 11:44:09 2011 UTC.
[11:44] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-10-08-11.01.moin.txt
[11:44] <rww> I note that we haven't addressed the disagreement between my POV and jussi's, which is whether existing #lubuntu ops should be automatically accepted by the application process.
[11:44] <AlanBell> yay
[11:44] <jussi> rww: yes we did
[11:45] <rww> jussi: Ah. No automatic approval unless they don't like that in which case back to the drawing board?
[11:45] <jussi> rww: well review and think how to proceed, talk more. (catalytic like ;))
[11:46] <elky> rww, yes, that would be why i expressed hesitation
[11:46] <rww> jussi: okays
[11:46] <rww> jussi: I also think that at some point the lack of communication with the IRC team before adding #lubuntu people to #ubuntu-ops-team needs to be discussed.
[11:47] <rww> jussi: because i think that you and topyli screwed up on that, personally.
[11:47] <jussi> rww: fair enough, we can have a chat about that at some point - Im still in disagreeance with you there but thats me
[11:47] <jussi> right, friend is at door, laters.
[11:48] <rww> I've said it before and I'll continue saying it until release, communication between IRCC and the ops team and the user base is dysfunctional, and it needs fixing.
[11:48] <jussi> Ill do the tasks tomorrow
[11:48] <rww> and probably within IRCC too, given that two of them aren't around most of the time
[11:50] <rww> jussi: You presumably don't disagree that there was a lack of communication, since there obviously wasn't. Therefore I assume you disagree with my assertion that you not communicating with your team is a problem. I do not envy you defending that position.
[11:51] <rww> anyway, it is 5am. I'm going to bed.
[11:51] <Unit193> rww: Quick PM question?
[11:51] <rww> Unit193: if it's very quick


[14:45] <palama> Shalom
[14:46] <palama> asw3: shalom
[14:46] <palama> Avihay: shalom
[14:48] <Avihay> shalom palama
[14:51] <Avihay> I'm sick. so expect a slow reply
[15:21] <asw3> sick of love?
[15:23] <Avihay> asw3: yes, so very much. but now I'm also ill from pressure
[15:24] <Avihay> and a semi-chronical issue that bursted into a fuge inflamation because of that pressure
[15:24] <Avihay> RAVIT!!!!!!!!!!! :-<
[15:25] <asw3> :\
[15:30] <asw3> i hope you will feel better
[18:07] <Avihay> not for a long while. thanks though


[00:02] <valorie> we need to draw in new people, and educate them
[00:02] <valorie> but for now, dinner
[05:07] <ahoneybun> valorie: Mamarok I believe it was changed in the dailies
[10:52] <BluesKaj> Howdy folks
[13:43] <clivejo> yofel: you about?
[16:18] <ahoneybun> ovidiu-florin: ?
[21:02] <knome> hello kubuntu uploaders!
[21:02] <knome> (and developers)
[21:03] <knome> because of some changes lately, shimmer-themes has been snatched to the kubuntu packageset from xubuntu - the package-internal reason is the orion theme
[21:04] <knome> now, the orion theme is actually not maintained anymore, so for the xubuntu/shimmer team, it's ok that we simply remove that theme from the package and regain control of shimmer-themes
[21:04] <knome> now the question is, since kubuntu-desktop depends on that package indirectly, we were wondering if that was intentional and that you actually have a use for that theme?
[21:06]  * knome pokes Riddell,ScottK, sitter
[21:07] <ScottK> knome: I'm not doing Kubuntu development anymore.
[21:07] <knome> ScottK, right-o, just saw you are still have the upload rights
[21:07] <knome> (because obviously, we need somebody with those to change the package)
[21:07] <ScottK> True.
[21:08] <knome> ScottK, sorry for the distraction! :)
[21:08] <ScottK> The packageset is controlled via seeds.
[21:08] <knome> i know
[21:09] <knome> we're pretty sure this is an unintentional side-effect, because there's little use for gtk themes with kde
[21:09] <knome> so here's a bug we've filed to actually fix the situation in another way: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/breeze/+bug/1497784
[21:10] <yofel> except that we need *some* theme for gtk apps, and since gtk broke the theming engine there is no kde-native one anymore
[21:10] <yofel> not sure if we use orion for that...
[21:10] <knome> yofel, the orion theme is unmaintained though, so it won't work very well with latest gtk3 versions
[21:10] <knome> yofel, we're happy to just drop it from shimmer-themes too if you want to keep both of the orion theme pieces ;)
[21:11] <knome> that's why we wanted to check with you first...
[21:15] <yofel> yep
[21:15] <yofel> breeze-5.4.0/misc/gtkbreeze/main.cpp:    const QString gtk3Theme = QStringLiteral("Orion"); // Orion looks kindae like breeze
[21:16] <yofel> knome: thanks for the info in any case, we'll look at it tomorrow when Riddell and sitter are here
[21:16] <knome> sure
[21:16] <knome> so i guess the two options are that 1) you get the package and totally get to keep it or 2) we resolve the dependency issue in a way or another so that shimmer-themes gets back to xubuntu
[21:17] <yofel> shouldn't adding it to the xubuntu seed put it into both seeds?
[21:18] <knome> bluesabre, isn't shimmer-themes in the xubuntu seed?
[21:18] <knome> yofel, ^ and i think no, because the way the packagesets are built
[21:19] <yofel> meh
[21:19] <knome> (kubuntu comes before xubuntu, so it snatches shimmer-themes)
[21:19] <bluesabre> it was until earlier in the cycle, then got pulled into the kubuntu seed with the breeze upload
[21:19] <knome> maybe some packageseed building wizard knows a way around this - we don't
[21:20] <bluesabre> seeds are generated by a script run by DMB members, micahg is currently looking into it
[21:22] <ochosi> yeah, but really, i don't wanna waste any more time and manhours on that. if you want orion just take it. we're not maintaining it anymore either way
[21:23] <knome> so yeah, for that, it's as simple as dropping it from shimmer-themes :)
[21:23] <yofel> sure, we'll probably do that for 15.10. I don't think we or the plasma folks will find a good replacement in a hurry
[21:24] <knome> if you want something that matches, then likely not
[21:24] <knome> if you want something that works, then it's a different thing, but then we'll likely need some packageset hacking anyway ;)


[19:38] <LLKCKfan> I have the nook pc app and the nook tabllet app. I have abook on the nook pc that I want to read on the nooktablet. Is there a way to get the book to show up?


[06:40] <skramer> Does anybody have an idea, why SDDM does not respect changed wallpaper? It always switches back to the default. (22.04)
[06:42] <skramer> Then, sometimes it does not remember window positions even if it only went to lock screen. Then all windows are moved to laptop screen. Strange....
[06:44] <skramer> Finally, programs are randomly closed when going to lock screen or standby. I can not predict which ones, it's always different. The  only one predictable is Discord...
[07:00] <mmikowski> skramer: Wayland? X11?
[07:01] <mmikowski> I believe sddm is always X. But the lock screen is different.
[07:02] <skramer> mmikowski: It's X
[07:02] <mmikowski> That's managed by plasma IIRC.
[07:03] <skramer> Graphics is Nvidia proprietary, if that makes any difference
[07:03] <mmikowski> I'm not seeing that here on 5.27.3 on Nvidia proprietary.
[07:04] <mmikowski> Maybe it's corrupt configs? fwiw, I just debugged a setup and it didn't get fully reset until I deleted ~/.config and ~/.cache/*
[07:04] <skramer> I have 5.24.7 running on 22.04
[07:04] <mmikowski> Not suggesting you should do that.
[07:04] <mmikowski> fwiw, that debug was on 5.24.7 on Intel.
[07:04] <mmikowski> hehe
[07:05] <mmikowski> Today, tested lock screen on Nvidia proprietary too.
[07:05] <mmikowski> However - icons and widgets moving is a known issue which was improved in 5.24.7 but not completely fixed IME.
[07:06] <skramer> What I find quite "interesting", this is a fresh install. The previous one that came since 18.04 (even longer) did not show any issues
[07:06] <mmikowski> It is more problematic with multiple displays. I recall Nate saying that 5.27 got some serious work on making sure stuff doesn't move anymore.
[07:07] <mmikowski> It does seem much better, overall.
[07:07] <mmikowski> Yes, the "stuff-moving-on-my-desktop" got far more common in 22.04. (5.24.x).
[07:08] <skramer> Hmm, it does not really make sense that it seemed to be working well before and now we have those issues (:
[07:08] <mmikowski> outside of a few minor bugs, plasma with 20.04 was quite solid.
[07:09] <skramer> Maybe I should restart installing 20.04 and then upgrade to 22.04
[07:09] <mmikowski> skramer: Please, you *don't* want to try that :P
[07:10] <skramer> Not really :D
[07:10] <mmikowski> Major release upgrades are always challenging.
[07:10] <mmikowski> IME, clean installs are *far* better.
[07:11] <mmikowski> The challenge with updates is they inevitably leave cruft lying around.
[07:11] <skramer> No, as I mentioned... I made good experiences in upgrading 18.04 > 20.04 > 22.04. But now, on fresh install...
[07:11] <mmikowski> Wow, that's odd.
[07:11] <skramer> Still, I don't want to go back to 20.04 just to upgrade it afterwards
[07:12] <mmikowski> I doubt that's it. My guess is there is something weird happening in your configs.
[07:12] <mmikowski> fwiw, I just had an issue with Chrome scaling incorrectly on an HDPI screen.
[07:12] <mmikowski> But creating a fresh user and testing, and it worked fine.
[07:13] <mmikowski> That's when I deleted the .cache/* and ~/.config files as a test. After that, everything worked fine.
[07:13] <mmikowski> This is in a test lab with lots of machines, so we can do that easily.
[07:14] <skramer> That's it! Not considered that yet... Yeah, I will create a new user on my machine & see what happens
[07:14] <skramer> You made my day
[07:14] <mmikowski> For you, perhaps set aside ~/.config and blow away ~/.cache/* in a VT (not when logged in).
[07:14] <mmikowski> Then you can move back configs as needed.
[07:14] <mmikowski> Yeah, if the fresh user works, that's a great way forward.
[07:15] <mmikowski> Glad to help.
[07:15] <mmikowski> Also, System Settings > Appearance > Global Theme, select a theme and include the layout.
[07:15] <mmikowski> That might fix the issue too.
[07:16] <skramer> mmikowski: May I ask where you are from? I'm from Germany, Saxony
[07:16] <mmikowski> kfocus.org :)
[07:16] <mmikowski> Castro Valley CA.
[07:17] <mmikowski> skramer: I need to call it a night - it's past midnight here. Best of luck with your setup!
[07:18] <skramer> mmikowski: Thank you & good night
[07:18] <mmikowski> nn!
[10:46] <OnkelTem> ]/j #vscode
[10:46] <OnkelTem> oops
[12:51] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[15:03] <Guest7099> Is anyone having problems with timeshift? My Snapshots keep failing to create. "Synching files with rsync...
[15:03] <Guest7099> E: rsync returned an error
[15:03] <Guest7099> E: Failed to create new snapshot
[15:03] <Guest7099> Failed to create snapshot"
[15:05] <Guest7099> I heard downgrading rsync might do the trick, but i'm not sure how to correctly do that.


[00:26] <unitxt> I like the feature of how irssi lets you go "Fullscreen(F11)" to switch windows. You simply use 'Alt-1...etc...' to switch between channels. Can you something similiar with Xterm? The only way I know how to switch between windows is to open a new tab, but that makes it where you still have the tabs present at the top of the screen. I'd like as much 'real estate' as possible...
[00:27] <TheSheep> unitxt: screen
[00:27] <unitxt> screen?
[00:27] <TheSheep> yes
[00:27] <unitxt> hmm, ok
[00:28] <TheSheep> http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/a-quick-tutorial-on-screen/
[00:31] <unitxt> TheSheep: Thanks for the link! Excellent. I read that and hopefully all will go well. I use Vim and that would be a great feature as I use multiple files when editing. Thanks again, I'll go look and read this.
[00:36] <ron_o> wow, power keeps going out at me house and my UPS picks up on it 10 seconds before..
[00:36] <ron_o> amazing.
[00:39] <TheSheep> unitxt: btw, you can open several files in vim
[01:12] <unitxt> TheSheep: I can open up several files at once in Vim w/o opening a new tab (in full screen mode) and switch between them? If that's the case then I wouldn't need to use screen as I am mainly want to use it to edit perl and html files via fullscreen mode.
[01:13] <unitxt> Still looking @ screen...I am doing something 'silly' as it's not working for me yet...I'll keep reading though...
[01:26] <TheSheep> unitxt: you can
[01:26] <TheSheep> unitxt: join #vim to meet some experts in the field :)
[01:28] <unitxt> TheSheep: thanks!...will do...
[01:37] <unitxt> TheSheep: Thanks, got screen working. Now I am able to switch between Vim files via 'C-a 0-9'. That'll do until I have the time to get Vim to do what 'screen' is going for me now...plus, with screen I can use other programs like Alpine and stuff so thanks again for the link...much appreciated.
[01:41] <TheSheep> unitxt: you also can detach it and leave running on a server overnight
[01:43] <Haffi_> Hi, I just added an ethernet card to my computer, and I set a static ip on it with the built in network manager. I'm pretty sure I did everything correct but now only the older card works (which is still running with DHCP).
[01:44] <Haffi_> The problem is that I when I go to the network manager now I can't find the setting I put in but it looks like it is still in effect, that is, the newer card still doesn't connect
[01:44] <Haffi_> does the network manager change /etc/interfaces directly or is the configuration stored elsewhere?
[01:46] <TheSheep> I think it talks to the system directly through HAL
[01:47] <Saad_> I am running Xubuntu 8.10 live CD and cannot manage to find a way to switch the interface language to Urdu. Any help?
[01:48] <unitxt> TheSheep: What? 0.o ...that sounds like something out of a Sci-Fi film (detach and leave it ruuning on a server)...I'll have to look into that later...sounds cool though.
[01:52] <M_Saad> I have got the Urdu translations of Xfce applications in /usr/share/locale but cannot manage to switch the interface to Urdu. Applications > System > Language Support does not help either. :(
[01:54] <TheSheep> M_Saad: you get an error?
[01:54] <TheSheep> M_Saad: note that if the translations are not complete, untranslated parts will stay English
[01:55] <M_Saad> I dont get an option for Urdu on the login screen.
[01:56] <M_Saad> I even installed all packages available for Urdu. Even though the translation of Xfce was already available in /usr/share/locale
[01:57] <TheSheep> M_Saad: maybe editing ~/.dmrc manually will help
[01:57] <TheSheep> M_Saad: select some other language at login, and change it in .dmrc to Urdu
[01:59] <M_Saad> What is the syntax?
[02:00] <TheSheep> M_Saad: I don't know, that's why I suggested to change it to some other language first
[02:00] <TheSheep> M_Saad: to see an example
[02:00] <M_Saad> OK
[02:04] <M_Saad> Thanks! It worked.
[02:06] <M_Saad> Another thing that looks a little unusual is that I keep getting the message that the new language settings will take effect after I log out. Even when I logged out more than one time. Finally I had to create a new user account to test. Is that because of the way the live CD handles stuff?
[02:06] <TheSheep> no idea
[02:07] <TheSheep> I suppose they show that message each time you change anything
[02:08] <M_Saad> The "live session user" account is not listed among others in "Users and Groups". May be it starts fresh each time. :-/
[02:26] <Procrasticus> Y'ello
[02:33] <Pato> hello, I could use some help. How do I change my screen depth in xubuntu 9.04?
[02:35] <Procrasticus> It seems the users here are rather... inactive
[02:36] <Procrasticus> I'd help you, Pato, but I'm completely new to Xubuntu. I've got problems of my own!
 ok, i'm also new to xubuntu, any help is welcomed
[02:38] <Pato> yep, it seems it's not the time for answers right now, I'll come back later
[02:38] <Procrasticus> Maybe that would be best.
[02:46] <DROBSAN420> hi
[02:46] <DROBSAN420> i need help bad
[02:46] <DROBSAN420> my bars have vanished. the menu bar for linux with the time and stuff and the bottom bar with the desktop switching
[02:47] <DROBSAN420> what happened and how do i fix
[02:47] <DROBSAN420> hi guys
[02:48] <DROBSAN420> anybody here/ i need hlp
[02:48] <DROBSAN420> my menu bars on linux have vanished.
[02:48] <DROBSAN420> the bar up top with the time is gone. the bar on the bottom with the desktop switcher is gone
[02:48] <DROBSAN420> help me QQ
[02:50] <DROBSAN420> kk i just registreed anybody here?
[02:50] <DROBSAN420> this keyboard sucks badly. lol
[02:51] <DROBSAN420> my menu bars have vanished. the bar up top with the time, etc, is gone. my bar below with the desktop switcher and stuff is also gone. completely. what do i do?
[02:54] <DROBSAN420> hello? i need some help plz
[02:54] <DROBSAN420> urgently.
[02:57] <DROBSAN420> Is ~anybody~ here alive? i need some help
[02:58] <SoylentGrun> have you asked your question?
[02:59] <DROBSAN420> yes
[02:59] <DROBSAN420> ill ask again
[02:59] <DROBSAN420> my bars on my desktop are gone. the time bar thing up top is completely gone so is the desktop switcher bar at the bottom
[03:04] <Procrasticus> I've a bit of a spot, too, if anyone is available to help, heh
[03:56] <Carlis> Hi I had 2 dictionary in Office folder. I could hide 1 dictionary adding NoDisplay=true and now How do i hide or remove the another dictionay that it´s in Office folder ?
[03:59] <TheSheep> same way
[04:00] <Carlis> wait
[04:01] <TheSheep> you can probably find which file it is by running 'grep -i dictionary /usr/share/applications/*' in a terminal
[04:12] <Carlis> TheSheep
[04:13] <Carlis> ?
[04:17] <Carlis> TheSheep ???
[04:18]  * TheSheep patiently waits for a meaningful conversation
[04:18] <Carlis> ok
[04:19] <Carlis> In this pc I don`t have dictionary in the office folder. In this computer I have AbiWord
[04:23] <Carlis> I do this in terminal: grep -i abiword /usr/share/applications and I don`t see any result
[04:36] <TheSheep> you missed the asterisk
[04:36] <Carlis> ok
[04:36] <Carlis> wait please
[04:37] <Procrasticus> Hi people, bit of a problem I was hoping I could get some help with
[04:38] <Procrasticus> I've got a computer that's roughly ten years old and some obscure old video card in it providing, well, the video. I'd like to get a driver for it to potentially speed up my computer here, but one doesn't seem to exist for it. Any ideas on what I should do?
[04:41] <Carlis> It`s worked thesheep but there are many AbiWord
[04:43] <Carlis> TheSheep ??
[04:44] <TheSheep> Carlis: at least you only have few files to chec know
[04:45] <Carlis> to check  ???
[04:50] <Carlis> Can u explain me a little bit more TheSheep ??
[04:51] <Carlis> I don`t knwo what do i have to check. There many AbiWord. Which one do i have to check ???
[04:53] <TheSheep> Carlis: it shows you the names of the files before the :
[04:59] <Carlis> wait
[05:02] <Carlis> In AbiWord I have added: NoDisplay=true and don`t hide the AbiWord in Office folder why TheShepp ?
[05:34] <Carlis> I already understood TheSheep
[05:35] <Carlis> Thank you for your help
[05:35] <Carlis> Bye TheSheep
[08:01] <ushimitsudoki> For some reason, VirtualBox starts up automatically everytime. I can not find where this is coming from - I have checked the settings GUI,  ~/.config/autostart, how can I track down why this is happening?
[08:15] <TheSheep> ushimitsudoki: delete ~/.cache/sessions
[08:16] <ushimitsudoki> TheSheep: alright I will give it a try!
[08:16] <TheSheep> and make sure you disable the 'save session' checkbox when logging out
[08:17] <ushimitsudoki> TheSheep: A winner is you! :) Thanks!
[08:17] <TheSheep> and make sure you disable the 'save session' checkbox when logging out
[08:18] <ushimitsudoki> Cool - I did that, but I must have had an old saved session or something in there from a while back. One step closer to XFCE perfection!
[08:20] <TheSheep> ushimitsudoki: ssessions are somewhat obnoxious
[08:21] <ushimitsudoki> TheSheep: I don't have a need for them, but I suppose some people do. I never came across that .cache directory in all my searching about autostarting programs and sessions, though I understand it now that it has been pointed out to me
[11:28] <mib_iaecb3sx> guys, need help!. my panel gone missing both the top and bottom! help anyone??
[11:28] <vinnl> mib_iaecb3sx, press Alt+F2, run "xfce4-panel"
[11:29] <mib_iaecb3sx> click dun in terminal?
[11:29] <mib_iaecb3sx> run*
[11:29] <vinnl> mib_iaecb3sx, no
[11:30] <mib_iaecb3sx> fail to execute child process "xface-panel" (no such file of directory)
[11:30] <Slonkie> type it correctly
[11:31] <Slonkie> it's xfce4-panel
[11:31] <mib_iaecb3sx> oh
[11:31] <mib_iaecb3sx> haha
[11:31] <mib_iaecb3sx> can
[11:31] <mib_iaecb3sx> let me try again
[11:33] <mib_iaecb3sx> will it disappear again after i restart?
[11:34] <vinnl> It shouldn't, if it does, you can add it to Autostarted Applications in the Settings Manager
[11:36] <mib_iaecb3sx> where is that autostarted application and 1 more thing, why is it so laggy? must i install all 75 update on first start up?
[11:37] <vinnl> Applications->Settings->Settings Manager
[11:37] <vinnl> And yes, if you've just installed Xubuntu, it's recommended to install all updates
[11:37] <Slonkie> I think you need graphicscard-driver, mib_iaecb3sx.
[11:38] <mib_iaecb3sx> slonkie, my hdd busy light is blinking fast as well
[11:38] <Slonkie> okay - i don't know then.
[11:41] <mib_iaecb3sx> oh.. ill try updating first!! if it dont work i ask again ya!! ^^
[12:36] <marli> hello
[12:37] <marli> I need some help.
[12:37] <vinnl> !ask
[12:37] <vinnl> :)
[12:38] <marli> hw: portege 3480CT 64mb, after 5 days it works...:P i want to instll ssh... but it fails
[12:39] <marli> version 6
[12:39] <knome> how does it "fail" ?
[12:40] <marli> cant find openssh-server
[12:40] <knome> have you updated the repositories
[12:41] <marli> as i didnt know i had to do it aor how to...no
[12:41] <knome> !info openssh-server
[12:42] <knome> it is in main, so there should be no problems in installing
[12:42] <knome> sudo apt-get update to update your package lists
[12:42] <marli> grr why isnt that in the apt wiki
[12:43] <marli> screan full to fetch
[12:44] <marli> *failed to fetch
[12:44] <knome> looks like you have problems connecting
[12:45] <marli> huh?
[12:48] <knome> if it fails fetching
[12:48] <knome> it might be trying to use anoter internet connection for apt.-
[12:51] <marli> what otherinternet connection?
[12:52] <marli> ive been at thiis for five days and my sarcasim valve is at max at the mo
[12:53] <marli> sod this im sting on XP!
[12:53] <marli> ...sorry im just so frustrated
[12:57] <marli3> well sod me...this is sooo much more harder on linux
[12:58] <marli3> 21 minates harder to be precise
[13:01] <marli3> hello ive asked the question....any answers?
[13:02] <vinnl> Can you browse the web in Firefox?
[13:03] <marli3> yes...
[13:03] <marli3> im on gaim now
[13:03] <vinnl> Ehm, gaim? Which version of Xubuntu are you on/
[13:03] <marli3> as i said 6
[13:04] <marli3> 6.10 to be precise
[13:04] <vinnl> Right
[13:04] <vinnl> knome, that's edgy right?
[13:04] <marli3> yeah
[13:04] <vinnl> marli, openssh-server isn't available for edgy: http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=openssh-server&searchon=names&suite=all&section=all
[13:05] <marli3> WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 5 days and i can ssh into it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[13:05] <marli3> i need to remote in or its useless
[13:05] <vinnl> Hmm that's odd... Perhaps it was named differently or something?
[13:05] <vinnl> It appears to have been available, judging by http://www.howtoforge.com/perfect_setup_ubuntu_6.10_p3
[13:05] <vinnl> Ah wait
[13:06] <vinnl> Of course, 6.10 isn't supported anymore because it's that old
[13:06] <vinnl> Why are you running such an aging version?
[14:03] <marli> because its the ONLY distro i could get to install and that took 5 days
[14:30] <gsa1> Hi
[14:30] <gsa1> What app do you uses to read pdf docs?
[14:31] <gsa1> Seems that with 9.03 ever try to open with gimp
[14:32] <gsa1> 9.04
[15:06] <mari> Anyone have experience in setting up the driver for: 	S3 Graphics UniChromeTM Pro IGP ?
[17:37] <MalfermitaKodo> Hi Xubuntistoj!
[17:37] <vinnl> !hi
[17:43] <MalfermitaKodo> Oh, I was about to ask whether the sound problems with the Aspire One were solved and lo and behold, I see the wiki page got an update for this
[17:43] <vinnl> ^.^
[17:45] <vidd> MalfermitaKodo, so did they get solved?
[17:45] <MalfermitaKodo> I am trying right now
[17:47] <MalfermitaKodo> I had the problem about the lack of microphone support earlier, but it never seemed important enough to keep trying after like 1 hour until now
[17:56] <mariano|syzygy> there is a torrent for the last xubuntu,right?
[17:56] <vidd> yes
[17:56] <vidd> !download
[17:56] <MalfermitaKodo> !torrents
[17:57] <mariano|syzygy> thanks
[17:59] <mariano|syzygy> those pages are quite confusing :/
[18:24] <Slonkie> WHat do you mean by confusing, mariano|syzygy ?
[18:25] <mariano|syzygy> to get a link for the torrent one has to go through several pages, which look like one is doing ftp :)
[18:25] <Slonkie> http://hr.releases.ubuntu.com/9.04/ubuntu-9.04-desktop-i386.iso.torrent
[18:25] <Slonkie> oh sorry
[18:25] <mariano|syzygy> I did get to it
[18:25] <Slonkie> that was ubunt
[18:26] <Slonkie> Oh all right.
[18:36] <basajaun> ubuntu
[18:37] <Slonkie> Huh?
[18:37] <basajaun> error
[18:37] <basajaun> sorry
[18:42] <MalfermitaKodo> bbl
[18:52] <MalfermitaKodo> hi
[18:52] <vidd> hello MalfermitaKodo
[18:54] <MalfermitaKodo> gah!
[18:54] <MalfermitaKodo> no success with making the mic work on my Aspire one
[18:57] <MalfermitaKodo> fooooo! misread something
[18:57] <MalfermitaKodo> bbl
[19:04]  * MalfermitaKodo is at Witt's end now
[19:05] <MalfermitaKodo> Has someone made the mic work on an Aspire One or knows how that works?
[19:05] <vidd> MalfermitaKodo, whats wrong?
[19:05] <MalfermitaKodo> I can playback sound but not record something
[19:06] <MalfermitaKodo> I tried to install the most recent ALSA as was recommended in the Ubuntu Wiki
[19:07] <MalfermitaKodo> I tried to set the right option in modprobe.d/options, but no success
[19:07] <vidd> MalfermitaKodo, have you un-muted the mic in xfce-mixer?
[19:07] <MalfermitaKodo> in Aslamixer
[19:07] <MalfermitaKodo> *alsamixer
[19:08] <vidd> but since 9.04 doesnt use alsamixer...look into xfce4-mixer
[19:09] <basajaun> how can I re-install network manager from cd?
[19:09] <MalfermitaKodo> vidd: I am on 8.10
[19:10] <MalfermitaKodo> and I do not understand xfce4-mixer
[19:10] <MalfermitaKodo> it does not seem to be muted
[19:10] <vidd> basajaun, first, edit your sources to only look at the cd
[19:10] <vidd> then sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get install [insert program name here]
[19:11] <vidd> MalfermitaKodo, since you are using 8.10, disregard that comment
[19:11] <basajaun> ok vidd thanks will try I just sabotaged my wife's  laptop connection.... so
[19:12] <SiDi> MalfermitaKodo, did you read the page about HDA intel ?
[19:12] <MalfermitaKodo> I read the aspire one page
[19:12] <vidd> basajaun, install wicd .... its better then NM IMO
[19:13] <vidd> MalfermitaKodo, in xfce4-mixer....
[19:13] <vidd> show the switches....
[19:13] <vidd> what does "Mic Select" say?
[19:13] <SiDi> MalfermitaKodo, what kind of aspire ?
[19:14] <vidd> SiDi, he has the aspire one netbook
[19:14] <MalfermitaKodo> Model ZGS
[19:14] <vidd> MalfermitaKodo, what does the mic select say?
[19:14] <MalfermitaKodo> It only shows Front Mic
[19:15] <basajaun> vidd sorry?
[19:15] <SiDi> MalfermitaKodo, hm got no data on this
[19:15] <basajaun> do not uderstand wicd?
[19:15] <SiDi> still, check the HDA intel page MalfermitaKodo its a good tutorial for sound and laptops
[19:15] <SiDi> basajaun, mind retelling what your problem is please ?
[19:15] <vidd> basajaun, there is an application "wicd" that is a much better (In My Opinion) application for network management then Network Manager
[19:16] <MalfermitaKodo> SiDi: Link?
[19:17] <SiDi> !hda
[19:17] <SiDi> pff
[19:17] <SiDi> !intel hda
[19:17] <basajaun> ah  ok   vidd
[19:17] <SiDi> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HdaIntelSoundHowto
[19:18] <vidd> MalfermitaKodo, when you right-click the panel app for the volume control....select properties....what does it say in "Device"?
[19:20] <MalfermitaKodo> default
[19:21] <vidd> MalfermitaKodo, THAT is the cause of your issue
[19:21] <vidd> hit that drop down and select your equiptment!
[19:22] <MalfermitaKodo> how does that change anything? it still shows the same controls at the same levels
[19:22] <vidd> the controls are now controling your hardware...instead of virtual hardware
[19:22] <MalfermitaKodo> the switches for the input source still have the same option: Front Mic
[19:23] <MalfermitaKodo> errr, playbacck works as does controlling the sound
[19:23] <vidd> is your mic working?
[19:24] <vidd> MalfermitaKodo, there should be 2 mic sources...
[19:24] <vidd> "front mic" is the mic built into your webcam (if you have one)
[19:25] <MalfermitaKodo> vidd: There aren't 2 sources, just one
[19:25] <vidd> and you should have a second mic source....from the mic plug
[19:25] <MalfermitaKodo> and, no, no success
[19:25] <vidd> when you hit the drop-down....what was the second option>?
[19:25] <MalfermitaKodo> which one?
[19:25] <basajaun> vidd it doesn't work
[19:25] <vidd> for "Device"
[19:26] <vidd> basajaun, what does not work?
[19:26] <MalfermitaKodo> #0: HDA Intel
[19:26] <vidd> MalfermitaKodo, what line did you add to the file?
[19:27] <basajaun> just the cd as source and apt-get update nessage is couldn't resolve  security.ubuntu.com
[19:28] <MalfermitaKodo> to modprobe.d/options ?
[19:28] <MalfermitaKodo> "options snd-hda-intel model=acer-aspire"
[19:29] <vidd> basajaun, did you open /etc/apt/sources.lst?
[19:29] <SiDi> honnestly
[19:29] <SiDi> there are many inbuilt mics that just dont work
[19:29] <SiDi> its imo the main hardware compatibility issue at the moment
[19:29] <basajaun> no
[19:29] <MalfermitaKodo> SiDi: neither does an external one
[19:29] <vidd> basajaun, that is why
[19:29] <SiDi> thats more annoying :)
[19:30] <vidd> you need to add # to the front of every line except the cd
[19:30] <MalfermitaKodo> I want to be able to use Voip to call my parents when I'll be in England
[19:30] <basajaun> ok vidd
[19:38] <basajaun> etc  doesn contain reference to cd  although I have it in sofware sources
[19:42] <basajaun> vidd  no ref to cd in source list.d
[19:42] <MalfermitaKodo> add one?
[19:43] <basajaun> syntax?
[19:43] <MalfermitaKodo> just a sec
[19:44] <MalfermitaKodo> This is what mine says: deb cdrom:[Xubuntu 8.04.1 _Hardy Heron_ - Release i386 (20080702.1)]/ hardy main restricted
[19:45] <basajaun> ok thanks
[19:47]  * MalfermitaKodo tried to upgrade alsa-utils and got an error during make: /bin/bash: xmlto: command not found
[19:47] <basajaun> software sources  says installable from cd rom blabla but it still doesn work
[19:48] <vidd> basajaun, then do this:
[19:49] <vidd> get the .deb file and install it that way
[19:49] <MalfermitaKodo> fooo!
[19:49] <vidd> this is why i recommended wicd b4
[19:49] <MalfermitaKodo> I just realized... why does my xubuntu say it is a 8.04?
[19:50] <vidd> MalfermitaKodo, the cd rom in your sources?
[19:50] <MalfermitaKodo> yeah
[19:50] <vidd> because that was the cd you installed from
[19:50] <vidd> heh...mine says "dapper"
[19:51] <vidd> (thats 6.06)
[19:51] <MalfermitaKodo> ah
[19:51] <vidd> the rest of your sources SHOULD say "intrepid"
[19:52] <basajaun> but  vidd I can connect to the net from the other machine and therefore can not get the file unless I download apackage from ny macine
[19:52] <vidd> you cant download the file, put it on a usb drive and bring it to the crippled machine?
[19:53] <vidd> basajaun, belay that....
[19:53] <vidd> how does that machine connect to the internet? wired or wireless?
[19:54] <basajaun> the crippled one is on wireless mine is on wire
[19:54] <vidd> basajaun, can you get that other machine wired?
[19:54] <basajaun> I just need to find the package
[19:55] <basajaun> but network manager will still be missing....even if I wire the poor thing
[19:56] <vidd> basajaun, if you wire the poor thing, you hard-code it to connect
[19:56] <MalfermitaKodo> fooooo!
[19:56] <Slonkie> you can connect to the network trough terminal if you want
[19:56] <MalfermitaKodo> and another failed dependency for compilation
[19:56]  * MalfermitaKodo feels like in the 'good' old S.u.S.E. 6.0 era
[20:00] <vidd> basajaun, does your /etc/network/interfaces file look like http://pastebin.com/d69c36dd2
[20:00] <vidd> (on the crippled machine)
[20:01] <MalfermitaKodo> bbl
[20:05] <basajaun> Hard-code?
[20:05] <basajaun> hell nothing works
[20:06] <vidd> did you look at my link and compare your file to mine?
[20:07] <MalfermitaKodo> <long string of ASCII characters>
[20:07] <basajaun> just a min vidd
[20:07] <MalfermitaKodo> alas, even upgrading alsa-util and alsa-lib didn't work
[20:08] <vidd> MalfermitaKodo, should got a ubuntu-based netbook from dell =]
[20:09] <MalfermitaKodo> Dell? /me restrains self from comment
[20:09] <vidd> have you considered restoring it, taking it back and getting a linux-freindly device? =]
[20:10] <MalfermitaKodo> no, since I bought her in November
[20:10] <MalfermitaKodo> and it ran Linux originally
[20:10] <vidd> MalfermitaKodo, if it ran linux originally...what's the issue?
[20:11] <vidd> (or should i say WHICH linux did it run originally)
[20:11] <MalfermitaKodo> This crappy restricted one... it didn't even let me use an acceptable terminal
[20:12] <MalfermitaKodo> no idea how it is called
[20:12] <MalfermitaKodo> I repressed every memory of the horrible 30 minutes with it which Xubuntu took to download
[20:13] <vidd> MalfermitaKodo, i KNOW this is going to sound evil and make you cringe....
[20:13] <vidd> did the mic work then?
[20:14] <MalfermitaKodo> I didn't try it
[20:14] <MalfermitaKodo> I couldn't actually use that one well since all fonts were unreadably small
[20:15] <MalfermitaKodo> (for a visually impaired Malfy)
[20:15] <MalfermitaKodo> wait... let me get its installation CD
[20:15] <vidd> did it come with a "restore" disk?
[20:16] <th0r> can xfce display files that are saved on the desktop (in ~/Desktop)?
[20:16] <vidd> th0r, of cource
[20:16] <th0r> that is...can it display icons on the screen for them
[20:16] <vidd> yes
[20:16] <vidd> that is the default setting
[20:17] <th0r> vidd: somehow I have lost that and would like to get it back. Any idea where I might have screwed it up?
[20:17] <MalfermitaKodo> vidd: yes, but I can't seem to find it
[20:17] <vidd> MalfermitaKodo, try dl'ing it from thier site
[20:17] <vidd> they might have some proprietary diver
[20:18] <vidd> th0r, you have files located in /hom/[user]/Desktop and there are no icons on the screen?
[20:18] <th0r> vidd: just found it....
[20:18] <MalfermitaKodo> errr... but.... you do not want me to actually restore it?!?!?!
[20:19] <th0r> vidd: under applications-settings-desktop...the icons tab.
[20:19] <vidd> MalfermitaKodo, no...if there is a custom proprietary driver, install JUST THE DRIVER
[20:19] <vidd> th0r, so...to answer my question above....no?
[20:20] <th0r> vidd: right...I had files in the Desktop folder but they did not show on the desktop.
[20:20] <th0r> vidd: don't know how they got turned off....and searching google the past hour or so has been an exercise in frustration <smile>
[20:21] <MalfermitaKodo> Okay, the Linux is called Linpus Lite
[20:21] <th0r> vidd: I found how to turn on/off the trashbin, home, file system, but not the files in Desktop
[20:21] <vidd> th0r, "rm ~/.config/xfce4/desktop/iconscreen0.rc"
[20:22] <vidd> then log out (dont save settings) and log back in
[20:22] <basajaun> vidd many thanks wired it connected downloaded and it connect you saved me from a spell in the dog house lol
[20:22] <vidd> hehe...no problem
[20:22] <basajaun> MalfermitaKodo, thanks
[20:22] <basajaun> bye folks
[20:22] <MalfermitaKodo> goodbye!
[20:23] <vidd> basajaun, most times, eth0 is hard coded (like my pastebin) and is therefore not controled by NM at all
[20:25] <MalfermitaKodo> gah! Can I please hunt down whoever designed the Linpus site and cut off his hands so he won't repeat his crimes?!
[20:25] <vidd> MalfermitaKodo, unfortunantly...NO...we need him to work on the new M$ Windows 7 site!
[20:26] <vidd> =]
[20:26] <MalfermitaKodo> :)
[20:26] <MalfermitaKodo> lol*
[20:26] <MalfermitaKodo> but... bad webdesigners sem to grow on trees
[20:27] <vidd> no...there are not that many trees left anymore!
[20:27] <MalfermitaKodo> good point
[20:28] <MalfermitaKodo> well, I don't see anything about the drivers Linpus uses
[20:28] <vidd> then you might need to restore it =[
[20:29] <MalfermitaKodo> nooooooooooooooooo!
[20:29] <vidd> wait...did you go to the limpus site? or to acer's site?!?
[20:29] <MalfermitaKodo> Linpus
[20:29] <vidd> no! go to ACER's site
[20:29] <vidd> THEY would have the drivers
[20:31] <MalfermitaKodo> no
[20:31] <MalfermitaKodo> they just have flash
[20:32] <MalfermitaKodo> seriously has no one ever heard of accessable websites anymore?
[20:32] <vidd> mystery-meat navigation is all the rage now!
[20:33] <MalfermitaKodo> I want my Web 0.7 back!
[20:33] <MalfermitaKodo> Can't we uninvent flash and the IMG tag?!
[20:34] <vidd> MalfermitaKodo, which acer1?
[20:34] <MalfermitaKodo> ZGS
[20:35] <vidd> hrm...thats not an option
[20:35] <MalfermitaKodo> that is what it says as model name on the backside of it
[20:35] <MalfermitaKodo> 8.9" screen
[20:35] <Slonkie> Isen't it just Acer Aspire One ?
[20:35] <MalfermitaKodo> Slonkie: there are different versions
[20:35] <Slonkie> oh sorry
[20:36] <MalfermitaKodo> let me find the marketing term
[20:36] <vidd> Slonkie, you made a funny! =]
[20:38] <MalfermitaKodo> the model with 8.9" screen and 8 GB SSD
[20:38] <vidd> hrm
[20:39] <MalfermitaKodo> somewhat deprecated, I guess
[20:45] <S0210> I put the "switch user" icon on the panel but the result is strange. If I change the user the hotkeys are dead... is it only in my case? Does anybody have similar problem?
[20:47] <vidd> S0210, did you customize the hotkeys?
[20:47] <MalfermitaKodo> I am actually considering to dis-upgrade
[20:47] <vidd> MalfermitaKodo, i would
[20:48] <vidd> MalfermitaKodo, 9.04 has better hardware support for newer equiptment
[20:48] <MalfermitaKodo> *dist
[20:48] <vidd> MalfermitaKodo, i knew what ya ment =]
[20:49] <MalfermitaKodo> and why does it tell me that a new distro called 8.10 is available... did I only dist-upgrade sydi, not her?!
[20:50] <S0210> vidd: yes but not even Alt-F2 works...
[20:50] <vidd> MalfermitaKodo, sounds like you "dist-upgrade" b4....but did not system upgrade
[20:50] <vidd> S0210, does alt-f2 work in 9.04?
[20:51] <vidd> S0210, copy the .file to the new user, and see if that helps any
[20:51] <S0210> vidd: I mean the don't work if I switch user2... but if I log out from user1 and log in to user2 then it's fine
[20:52] <MalfermitaKodo> and in other news... apparently there is no agreed-on term for distribution in Esperanto
[20:52] <vidd> then check launchpad to see if a bug is filed....
[20:52] <vidd> if not, file one
[20:52] <MalfermitaKodo> oh... and it tells me that I need much more diskspace for that
[20:52] <MalfermitaKodo> :eep:
[20:53] <vidd> MalfermitaKodo, dunno
[20:53] <vidd> but if your running hardy, you will want to upgrade twice
[20:55] <MalfermitaKodo> I first need to free >1 GB diskspace
[20:55] <MalfermitaKodo> :o
[20:56] <S0210> re
[20:56] <vidd> then check launchpad to see if a bug is filed....
[20:56] <vidd> if not, file one
[20:56] <vidd> S0210, ^^
[20:56] <S0210> OK :-]
[20:58] <vidd> this printing only 15 pages at a time is for the birds =\
[20:59] <MalfermitaKodo> is there a way to deinstall all packages which were installed as dependency but are no longer used
[21:00] <vidd> MalfermitaKodo, yes
[21:00] <vidd> sudo apt-get autoremove --purge
[21:00] <MalfermitaKodo> ty!
[21:01] <vidd> and if you want to remove application "foo", with its config files, and its dependencies, and thier config files....
[21:01] <vidd> sudo apt-get remove --purge foo
[21:01] <vidd> woops
[21:01] <vidd> replace "remove" with "autoremove"
[21:01] <MalfermitaKodo> ah ty
[21:05] <slow-motion> hi
[21:06] <asdf-> hi
[21:06] <asdf-> does xubuntu come in a server edition?
[21:06] <asdf-> or should i just install ubuntu server edition and configure xfce as window manager?
[21:14] <MalfermitaKodo> I have not heard of a Xubuntu server edition
[21:18] <vidd> asdf-, all the *buntu's use ubuntu server as a server edition.....
[21:18] <vidd> by default the server edition does not come with a window manager
[21:19] <asdf-> vidd, thanks
[22:22] <MalfermitaKodo> feep!
[22:22] <MalfermitaKodo> this upgrade will take AGES!
[23:26] <slow-motion> how can i remove my suspend and hybernate button from the logou-buttons screen
[23:26] <slow-motion> ?
[23:28] <cjones> what is the front end aduacious
[23:28] <knome> audacious is a tool to edit audio files.
[23:28] <cjones> what is the front end adacity
[23:29] <MalfermitaKodo> slow-motion: My Xubuntu speaks Esperanto, but maybe I can help you
[23:29] <knome> cjones, oh sorry, audacity was what it was called :P
[23:30] <MalfermitaKodo> slow-motion: in 'all settings' there is an entry related to Session, righ?
[23:30] <MalfermitaKodo> *right
[23:30] <cjones> knome you confused me i am looking for the front on of the porgram formaly called xmms
[23:30] <MalfermitaKodo> that is audacious
[23:30] <MalfermitaKodo> audacity is unrelated
[23:30] <cjones> whats the front end for it ?
[23:31] <cjones> sorry i get them mixed up sometimes
[23:31] <knome> "the front end" ?
[23:31] <MalfermitaKodo> I think audacious IS the front end for mpg321 and related friends
[23:31] <cjones> ok thanks
[23:33] <slow-motion> MalfermitaKodo du bist deutscher oder?
[23:33] <knome> slow-motion, english please.
[23:34] <knome> slow-motion, deutsch in #ubuntu-de
[23:34] <cjones> is there a way to play audatious from the termanal
[23:36] <MalfermitaKodo> cjones: you can play mp3s via mpg321
[23:36] <MalfermitaKodo> on the terminal
[23:36] <MalfermitaKodo> or mp3blaster if you want something user-friendly
[23:41] <cjones> MalfermitaKodo: mp3blaster is badass thanks verymuch
[23:41] <MalfermitaKodo> np
[23:42] <cjones> ok one last thing is there a plugin for lynx for https?
[23:47] <MalfermitaKodo> I thought Lynx had it... lynx and links can be compiled with ssh support
[23:51] <cjones> ok thamks
[23:58] <ZummiG777> Question: I'm currently running vanilla ubuntu 8.04, if I go to xubuntu 9.04, will the lower requirements make my system appear /that/ much faster?