[06:22] <didrocks> bonjour pitti!
[06:22] <pitti> bonjour didrocks, ça va  ?
[06:22] <didrocks> ça va bien, et toi?
[06:23] <pitti> didrocks: ça va bien aussi
[06:23] <pitti> l'été est retour \o/
[06:23] <didrocks> oui, il a fait 25°C ici hier
[06:23] <didrocks> (22 prévu aujourd'hui)
[06:23] <pitti> nous avons eu le temps genial hier
[06:24] <didrocks> grand soleil? (comme ici)
[06:25] <pitti> oui, et 22 celsius
[06:26] <didrocks> nice ;)
[06:26] <didrocks> are you still working on autopilot-gtk? It seems to FTBFS (tests don't pass on trusty): bug #1243538
[06:26] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1243538 in autopilot-gtk "autopilot-gtk FTBFS on trusty" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1243538
[06:27] <pitti> didrocks: ah, I'll have a look
[06:27] <didrocks> thanks!
[06:27] <pitti> didrocks: oh, seems autopilot 1.4 landed, but not -gtk 1.4
[06:27] <pitti> I'll get that sorted out
[06:27] <didrocks> pitti: it didn't land, (all in the ppa), so we need both in concert?
[06:28] <pitti> yes, and -qt
[06:28] <pitti> and the version is wrong
[06:28] <didrocks> Get:186 http://ftpmaster.internal/ubuntu/ trusty/universe python-autopilot all 1.3.1+13.10.20131003.1-0ubuntu1 [740 kB]
[06:28] <pitti> 1.3.1+13.10.20131003.1-0ubuntu1
[06:28] <pitti> that needs to be 1.4-something now
[06:28] <didrocks> so I guess that lp:autopilot needs to move to 1.4 yeah
[06:28] <didrocks> pitti: maybe you need to tight your deps as well, if you are not anymore compatible with 1.3?
[06:28] <pitti> or maybe vice versa, but one of them got uploaded wrong
[06:29] <pitti> didrocks: the binary deps do that already
[06:29] <pitti> but not ap-gtk's build deps, as we didn't get an 1.4 version yet
[06:29] <pitti> as soon as we do, we can bump it
[06:30] <didrocks> pitti: ok ;)
[06:32] <didrocks> robru: I think libfriends FTBFS is for you: https://bugs.launchpad.net/libfriends/+bug/1243527 :)
[06:32] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1243527 in libfriends "libfriends FTBFS on trusty" [Critical,New]
[06:32] <pitti> didrocks: hm, I don't quite understand -- lp:autopilot has 1.4+14.04.20130917ubuntu.unity.next-0ubuntu1
[06:32] <pitti> didrocks: we manually kept it as 1.4-0ubuntu1, but then the auto-importer apparently adjusted it to that
[06:33] <robru> didrocks, yeah, i looked at that already. not a clue. libfriends source hasn't changed in many months, so this is undoubtedly caused by some breakage in some component it depends on -- perhaps a new debian import?
[06:33] <didrocks> pitti: hum, someone published it to daily-build-next
[06:33] <didrocks> robru: possible yeah, but we need someone to dive into it or we won't release any friends this cycle
[06:34] <didrocks> pitti:  autopilot 1.4+14.04.20131023-0ubuntu1
[06:34] <didrocks> in the daily-build ppa
[06:34] <didrocks> pitti: so I guess if you tighten your build-dep, we should be fine now
[06:34] <pitti> didrocks: ah, so that'll land in trusty soon?
[06:34] <pitti> didrocks: ack, can do
[06:34] <didrocks> pitti: well, both will land in concert once the FTBFS fixed (and a landing ask done)
[06:34] <robru> didrocks, ok, I'll ping ken about that in the morning. low priority i think -- friends doesn't need any releases for now, and we have all cycle to fix this.
[06:35] <didrocks> robru: well, would be better to get all stacks green asap so that we don't rush later on
[06:35] <didrocks> robru: so FTBFS is a priority always, in particular as it means you can't boostrap the distro
[06:36] <robru> didrocks, ok, will look at it in the morning. 11:30PM here :-P
[06:36] <didrocks> robru: did sil2100/cyphermox pinged you about dailies btw? you were not in the meeting
[06:36] <didrocks> robru: yeah, I hope to see you at tomorrow's meeting at least ;)
[06:36] <robru> didrocks, yeah, sorry i missed the meeting.
[06:37] <robru> didrocks, didn't get pinged, but i saw sil branched friends stack for trusty on monday. i meant to do it but he beat me
[06:37] <didrocks> robru: yeah, but we had a lot to do for the transition
[06:37] <didrocks> and already lost 3 days
[06:37] <didrocks> (for moving all stacks in trusty)
[06:37] <didrocks> so better time coverage would help
[06:37] <robru> didrocks, ok, how can i help then?
[06:38] <didrocks> robru: well, come to the meeting in your meeting and we can dispatch the tasks, I think it's too late for you for today (and the tasks will change regarding how we advance on them today)
[06:38] <robru> didrocks, ok
[06:58] <pitti> didrocks: I sent an MP for bug 1243538 FYI
[06:58] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1243538 in autopilot-gtk "autopilot-gtk FTBFS on trusty" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1243538
[06:59] <didrocks> pitti: approved, thanks!
[07:14] <pitti> didrocks: failed with
[07:14] <pitti> Err http://ppa.launchpad.net trusty/main amd64 Packages
[07:14] <pitti>   404  Not Found
[07:14] <pitti> didrocks: PPA isn't set up for trusty yet?
[07:15] <didrocks> pitti: argh, they are using the autopilot ppa
[07:15] <didrocks> not the daily-build
[07:15]  * didrocks told to stop using the autopilot ppa :/
[07:15] <didrocks> pitti: I think let's bootstrap that by pushing directly to trunk, mind you?
[07:16] <didrocks> then, fginther: please remove the autopilot ppa from the QA stack
[07:16] <pitti> didrocks: fine for me, how do I do that?
[07:16] <pitti> didrocks: you mean just bzr push lp:autopilot-gtk?
[07:16] <didrocks> pitti: just bzr push? (there is one commit, so doing a merge isn't really worthwile) ;)
[07:16] <didrocks> pitti: yeah
[07:17] <pitti> didrocks: oh, that worked; I had assumed the trunks were r/o
[07:17] <didrocks> pitti: no, we still let for urgency/all those corner cases the possibility to push to trunk
[07:18] <pitti> didrocks: ack, done
[07:18] <didrocks> thanks pitti!
[08:06] <Laney> morning
[08:45] <darkxst> Morning Laney
[09:03] <Mirv> cyphermox: sil2100: robru: FYI the Stack status page is again in use and has Trusty (head), please keep it updated when you notice problems in stacks etc, so that it's again useful for the person in the 'next shift'. https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuDk72Lpx8U5dHFtUmlPOUtCRk8zR2dtaEpIbUVhMmc#gid=3
[09:04] <Mirv> and tell ken as well when he's online
[09:04] <sil2100> Mirv: ACK! Good to get back to that
[09:08] <sil2100> Mirv, didrocks we didn't clean up the Team work list for a while, if you don't mind I'll do an 'Archive'
[09:08] <Mirv> sil2100: I've been waiting until we have a normal weekly :)
[09:09] <Mirv> I haven't used it much either, but sometimes as a scrap book
[09:09] <sil2100> Mirv: I sometimes used it as well, but I guess we don't have those weeklies anymore ;p
[09:09] <sil2100> So let me press the button now
[09:09] <Mirv> sil2100: let's see if we'll get back to those or not
[09:24] <sil2100> brb guys, modem needs restarting
[09:28] <didrocks> sil2100: don't worry to archive
[09:28] <didrocks> feel free, I meant*
[09:28] <didrocks> anyway, all our process have been screwed and we had a bulldozer imposed
[10:05] <Laney> hey darkxst (sorry, was busy with something and forgot to reply)
[10:53] <sil2100> Mirv: btw.! https://code.launchpad.net/~sil2100/cupstream2distro-config/cleanup_saucy_stacks <-
[10:53] <sil2100> Mirv: once you have a free cycle, as this is nothing but cleanup after the transition
[10:54] <Mirv> sil2100: sure, I'll take a look.
[11:39] <ricotz> didrocks, hi :), can we get vala-0.22 synced to reveal problems early, it will get the default with it too
[11:39] <ricotz> http://packages.qa.debian.org/v/vala-0.22.html
[11:39] <didrocks> ricotz: hey in a meeting, maybe Laney can handle it ^
[11:40] <Laney> ricotz: Don't really know anything about it
[11:41] <Laney> did you try any builds?
[11:41] <Laney> don't have a problem in principle, please file a proper sync request
[11:44] <ricotz> Laney, mostly the binding updates could result in problems if there are larger fixes, besides that it is a harmless update
[11:45] <ricotz> Laney, will file a request
[11:45] <Laney> ricotz: also a patch to drop valac please
[11:45] <ricotz> Laney, 0.22.0 doesnt include the needed fixes for the next gobject-introspection changes
[11:46] <Laney> Don't know what those are
[11:46] <ricotz> but 0.22.1 is suppose to have them
[11:46] <ricotz> g-i added some new attributes on which vapigen chokes
[11:46] <ricotz> in 1.39.x that is
[11:46] <Laney> ah
[11:46] <Laney> do we have that?
[11:46] <Laney> no
[11:47] <ricotz> there were such issue with 0.20 but 0.22 includes those cherry-picks
[11:47] <ricotz> Laney, i assume glib/g-i will be updated to 2.40 in trusty?
[11:48] <Laney> Probably
[11:48] <ricotz> good
[11:48] <Laney> They don't tend to cause problems and are useful for rdeps
[11:49] <Laney> Anyway, if you could test build some rdeps (maybe ones on touch images as they are the most sensitive ...) and they work then it'll be fine
[11:50] <ricotz> hmm, i see
[11:53] <Laney> should be easy enough
[11:53] <Laney> just test build on your machine (run too for bonus points)
[11:54] <Laney> No need to do everything, just 3-4 should be ok
[12:19] <akShri> hi.. is this the correct forum to ask about any desklet for thunderbird mail client??
[12:27] <ricotz> Laney, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1243675
[12:27] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1243675 in Ubuntu "Sync vala-0.22 0.22.0-1 (universe) from Debian experimental (main)" [Undecided,New]
[12:29] <Laney> ricotz: great, will look later
[12:30] <ricotz> thanks
[12:35] <desrt> hi hi hackers
[12:36] <kenvandine> hey desrt
[12:36] <desrt> also designers, artists, testers, tech writers, translators, sysadmins, community wranglers, managers, and users
[12:37] <kenvandine> :-D
[12:50] <kenvandine> good morning seb128
[12:50] <seb128> kenvandine, hey, how are you today?
[12:50] <kenvandine> great
[12:50] <kenvandine> and you?
[12:50] <seb128> good (I think ... that's a question you can better answer after coffee)
[12:51] <kenvandine> hehe
[12:52] <kenvandine> i've already had a few cups.  i got started a couple hours early today, i need to leave a bit early
[12:52] <seb128> sounds like 6am-early, which is not even early yet
[12:52] <seb128> need a new world for that time of the day
[12:52] <seb128> like "middle of the night" ;-)
[12:54] <kenvandine> indeed
[12:58] <qengho> tseliot: Hi. I'm tracking a bug that affects chromium-browser and seems to stem from fglrx in 13.10. Do you have any advice? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/chromium-browser/+bug/1222718
[12:58] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1222718 in fglrx-installer (Ubuntu) "Tabs not displaying titles" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[13:02] <tseliot> qengho: we should probably notify AMD since this is something only they can fix
[13:05] <Sweetshark> hmmm libreoffice master/4.2 has already a good set of changes in dependencies that look ... "fun".
[13:21] <Laney>  ah
[13:22] <Laney> I see the system-settings language problem now
[13:22] <Laney> QLocale(German, Latin, Belgium) "deutsch" "de_BE.utf8"
[13:22] <Laney> de_BE calls itself "deutsch"
[13:23] <Laney> I think we should append "(Country name)" if there's duplicates
[13:23] <Laney> will whip up something to try that
[13:23] <Laney> after lunch, bbs!
[13:25] <desrt> de_BE is a thing?
[13:26] <seb128> Laney, enjoy
[13:26] <seb128> desrt, seems so...
[13:30] <jpds> desrt: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German-speaking_Community_of_Belgium
[13:32] <ogra_> "Simplified Deutsch"
[13:32] <ogra_> ;)
[13:36] <jpds> olli: Unmoeglich.
[13:36] <jpds> ogra_: ↑
[13:36] <olli> wutt?
[13:37] <ogra_> jpds, :)
[13:37] <jpds> olli: Sorry, tab-completed the wrong nick (e_timing).
[13:37] <olli> ;)
[14:29] <seb128> dobey, hey
[14:29] <seb128> dobey, do you know about ubuntuone-client-gnome not being installed by default in saucy?
[14:36] <dobey> yes, it was removed from the archive like 4 months ago
[14:36] <dobey> it does not exist
[14:38] <seb128> dobey, so no nautilus integration anymore for new users? why?
[14:38]  * seb128 is glad to still have that installed
[14:38] <Laney> yeah, that's useful
[14:39] <Laney> dobey: also, I filed a rb-u1 MP if you could look at it please
[14:39] <Laney> doesn't seem like that plugin does very much though?
[14:39] <Laney> I guess I missed the scaling back of the music store integration
[14:39] <dobey> yes. because it has a lot of bugs we don't have time to fix, doesn't fit with where Ubuntu is headed in terms of development and features, and we need to reduce maintenance overhead
[14:40]  * Laney understands
[14:40] <Laney> anyway, please do look at it - it's needed for rhythmbox 3.0
[14:43] <dobey> sigh. libpeas is so broken :(
[14:43] <ogra_> use libbeans then
[14:44] <ogra_> :P
[14:47] <seb128> dobey, is that comment about u-c-g?
[14:48] <seb128> dobey, the nautilus integration was sort of working well enough...
[14:49] <dobey> seb128: yes, i was replying about u-c-g there. and no, it wasn't working that well
[14:51] <seb128> dobey, :/
[14:51] <seb128> why does the u1 team hates Ubuntu so much?
[14:51] <mdeslaur> lol
[14:51] <seb128> you guys keep making our desktop a second class citizen
[14:51]  * seb128 wonders why he's using u1 rather than dropbox or such
[14:52] <dobey> seb128: no we don't. tablets are doing that
[14:52] <seb128> dobey, well, when I say desktop I mean OS
[14:53] <seb128> you guys just don't care about working nicely on Ubuntu it seems
[14:53] <dobey> seb128: caring, and having the resources, aren't the same thing
[14:53] <dobey> i care about a lot of things i don't have the resources to fix
[14:54] <seb128> dobey, you didn't have to fix anything, the sharing of files from nautilus just worked fine
[14:54] <dobey> and right now, something broke SSL in Ubuntu for u1 it seems; so i have to deal with that
[14:55] <seb128> I still have the binary installed and it's still working
[14:55] <dobey> no it didn't
[14:55] <dobey> maybe it works ok for you
[14:55] <seb128> dobey, fine if you don't want to maintain it, you didn't have to get it deleted, it could have been moved to universe
[14:55] <dobey> but no, it was not "working fine"
[14:55] <kenvandine> i noticed i was getting SSL errors trying to install click packages on my phone last night... but a reboot fixed it
[14:55] <seb128> dobey, well, 90% of our archive is not "working fine"
[14:55] <seb128> we have bugs
[14:55] <seb128> that's not a reason to delete things
[14:55] <dobey> yes it is
[14:56] <dobey> shipping stuff we don't have the resources to maintain and fix problems in, is a bad decision
[14:56] <seb128> not shipping useful stuff is not good either
[14:57] <seb128> u1 is pretty much useless to me if I can't share files with others anymore
[14:57] <dobey> you can still share files
[14:57] <seb128> how?
[14:57] <dobey> ubuntuone-control-panel-qt
[14:57] <Laney> go to the website, share it, copy url from your browser
[14:58] <seb128> Laney, I can as well scp to my people page and give the url
[14:58] <Laney> heh
[14:58] <dobey> shipping the same functionality in multiple different places is also not useful
[14:58] <seb128> well, just ship it well integrated with our OS
[14:58] <seb128> don't push people to the web
[14:58] <Laney> attente: man, all those pointers to lists in language-plugin are hard to work with
[15:00] <seb128> dobey, how do I share a specific file from the qt ui?
[15:00] <seb128> I can see my folders, but they open in nautilus, which doesn't have the integration anymore
[15:00] <seb128> and I can see what I'm currently sharing
[15:00] <Laney> Share links tab
[15:00] <seb128> Laney, how do I browse to add a file from there?
[15:01] <Laney> search in the search box
[15:01] <seb128> I don't remember the name
[15:01] <seb128> so I've to go to nautilus, look for the name then go back to qt UI and type it?
[15:01] <Laney> browse for it in nautilus :-)
[15:01] <seb128> that's ridiculous...
[15:02] <dobey> use the app on your ubuntu phone, browse to it, and share from there :)
[15:02] <seb128> ...
[15:03] <seb128> I don't have enough storage on my phone or in the cloud to have all my datas tere
[15:03] <seb128> there
[15:04] <seb128> dobey, just as fyi, I'm going to bring back the nautilus integration for the LTS
[15:05] <seb128> dobey, desktop team is going to maintain it if you guys don't want to
[15:05] <Laney> desrt: did you see my ping about glib/powerpc/debian the other day?
[15:07] <dobey> seb128: it's not as simple as throwing ubuntuone-client-gnome back into the archive
[15:07] <seb128> dobey, well, seeing that it's still working for me, I guess it is
[15:07] <dobey> seb128: it requires a library that was built from the ubuntuone-client source package, which is no longer there, and which we won't be bringing back
[15:08] <seb128> dobey, how is it working for me then?
[15:08] <seb128> I get emblems on shared folders
[15:08] <dobey> you still have the library binary package installed i guess
[15:08] <seb128> well, I guess I can add that back as well
[15:10] <attente> Laney, hey, what are you trying to do?
[15:10] <dobey> anyway i don't have time to argue about it right now
[15:10] <attente> yeah, i started the plugin with the idea of loading the data only when requested
[15:10] <attente> but the plugin just started growing and growing
[15:11] <Laney> attente: Well, you save the name returned by QLocale nativeLanguageName() to display and use that for uniqueness
[15:11] <Laney> but it's not unique
[15:11] <Laney> so you don't get enough languages displayed and some of them are not what you expect
[15:11] <Laney> e.g. deutsch → de_BE
[15:12] <Laney> I thought about refactoring to use a struct or something but I'll probably not do that :P
[15:12] <attente> Laney, ok i see
[15:13] <attente> Laney, so we should do something like 'deutsch (Belgium)' in the list?
[15:13] <Laney> I'll check if we've already seen the language and if so then append the country name
[15:13] <Laney> yeah
[15:13] <Laney> you get the country from QLocale
[15:13] <attente> ok, in that case, i guess it isn't even necessary to do the uniqueness check
[15:13]  * Laney nods
[15:14] <attente> Laney, have you done a lot of work on this already? or are you ok with me taking over for that?
[15:14] <Laney> no I have not
[15:14] <Laney> feel free
[15:14] <attente> ok
[15:14] <attente> thanks :)
[15:15] <Laney> I think you want nativeCountryName()
[15:15] <Laney> but don't append if it you only have one variant
[15:16] <desrt> Laney: no.  seb told me about it, though.
[15:16] <desrt> what's up?
[15:19] <Laney> desrt: see https://buildd.debian.org/status/fetch.php?pkg=glib2.0&arch=powerpc&ver=2.38.1-1&stamp=1382028200
[15:19] <Laney> ***MEMORY-ERROR***: /home/laney/glib/gio/tests/.libs/lt-gmenumodel[8947]: GSlice: assertion failed: sinfo->n_allocated > 0
[15:19] <Laney> zsh: abort      ./gmenumodel
[15:20] <Laney> But it goes away if I build with --enable-debug=yes
[15:34] <desrt> Laney: k.  will check.
[15:35] <Laney> Cheers
[15:35] <Laney> there's also other failures https://buildd.debian.org/status/package.php?p=glib2.0&suite=experimental
[15:36] <Laney> I didn't reproduce that armhf one in my test build
[15:36] <Laney> Ought to make that testsuite output more verbose ...
[15:37] <Laney> some of those failures are broken builders or other such nonsense
[16:14] <robru> kenvandine, https://launchpadlibrarian.net/154701061/buildlog_ubuntu-trusty-amd64.libfriends_0.1.2%2B14.04.20131022-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz does this mean anything to you? some toolchain issue has busted libfriends in trusty. it's a mystery to me
[16:26] <kenvandine> robru, ah, the joys of the start of a new cycle :)
[16:26] <robru> kenvandine, yep. the relevant part of the log is that autoreconf complains that intltoolize didn't create po/Makefile.inin
[16:26] <kenvandine> indeed
[16:29] <kenvandine> robru, are you on trusty?
[16:29] <robru> kenvandine, yeah
[16:29] <kenvandine> well, i guess it's time for me to setup a pbuilder anyway
[16:37] <robru> kenvandine, heh, yeah
[16:57] <robru> kenvandine, let me know what you find, i'm eager to learn about this stuff
[16:57] <kenvandine> robru,  is suspect it's the update to gettext/autopoint
[16:58] <kenvandine> just got my pbuilder chroot setup, but i need to take off in a few
[16:58] <kenvandine> probably not get back to it until tomorrow
[17:00] <robru> hmmm
[17:00] <robru> sil2100, ^^ had any luck with the libfriends ftbfs?
[17:03] <sil2100> kenvandine: I was looking at it and the problem seems to happen on the dh_autoreconf step
[17:03] <kenvandine> yeah
[17:03] <kenvandine> autopoint related maybe
[17:03] <sil2100> kenvandine: didn't dig deeper as I was dealing with cu2d
[17:04] <sil2100> kenvandine: could be
[17:04] <kenvandine> there has been an update to gettext in trusty
[17:04] <kenvandine> i'll look more at it tomorrow
[17:04] <kenvandine> sil2100, unless you get to it first :)
[17:04] <sil2100> kenvandine: it seems Makefile.in.in gets overwritten there in a way that it's missing the # INTLTOOL_MAKEFILE line
[17:04] <sil2100> And config.status fails
[17:05] <kenvandine> yeah... that stuff can be fragile
[17:13] <kenvandine> ok, i need to head out
[17:13] <kenvandine> be back later tonight
[17:23]  * didrocks waves good evening
[17:33] <sil2100> robru: ok, so the overall status:
[17:33] <sil2100> robru: I redeployed all stacks with the branch from the merge, please approve it to get it in
[17:33] <robru> sil2100, ok, i'll submit a wrapped mp soon
[17:33] <sil2100> robru: the platform stack still needs updating once you fix the Mir stack and rebuild it
[17:34] <sil2100> robru: ok, but in the meantime let's approve that we have right now
[17:34] <sil2100> Not to get out-of-sync with what we have deployed
[17:35] <robru> sil2100, yeah
[17:36] <sil2100> robru: as for libfriends... I didn't have much time to check it in detail, but I downgraded both autopoint and debhelper to the saucy versions and it did not help...
[17:36] <sil2100> robru: so I guess we can scratch out those two packages as the ones that are at fault
[17:36] <robru> sil2100, i've been googling it. i have an email with some more details i'm about to send
[17:37] <sil2100> robru: ok, thanks!
[17:37] <sil2100> I EOD for now, so see you tomorrow - remember to approve the branch, try fixing Mir and then re-run all the stacks to see how it goes ;)
[17:37] <sil2100> See you tomorrow!
[18:29] <seb128> hey
[18:31] <larsu> seb128: \o/
[18:31] <seb128> ;-)
[19:28] <dobey> Laney: you can upload rb to trusty if you want, yes. you can even upload your proposed change as a distro patch in debian/patches/ for rb-u1 as a temporary fix to avoid breaking it there, while we figure out what to do otherwise. i have a critical issue i'm dealing with with an ssl cert failing to validate, that should be working. :-/
[19:33] <desrt> Laney: do we have a ppc machine that i can get access to?
[19:33] <desrt> we've kinda been living in blissful little-endian land for a while now...
[19:34] <desrt> probably some bugs slipped in
[19:34] <Laney> yeah I doubt that the Canonical one (if it even works) will reproduce it
[19:34] <Laney> it also works on ubuntu powerpc :(
[19:34] <desrt> oh.  lovely.
[19:34] <desrt> the log isn't too helpful
[19:34] <desrt> it's just a bunch of random test failure messages with no details or backtraces or anything
[19:34] <Laney> yeah
[19:34] <Laney> I nede to improve the testsuite output to be more verbose
[19:34] <Laney> anyway: http://dsa.debian.org/doc/guest-account/
[19:34] <desrt> this is sort of our fault
[19:35] <Laney> if you want to
[19:35] <desrt> at least under the old regime you got a test name and an assert message
[19:35] <desrt> i guess there is some way to get that info again under the new rig, but you don't see it by default :/
[19:35] <Laney> should be in the log files
[19:35] <Laney> need to make it cat those if there's a failure
[19:35] <desrt> if you could do that it might be a big help
[19:37] <Laney> If you send me the "Information guest needs to supply to sponsoring DD" stuff I'll send it off to the sysadmins
[19:37] <desrt> that makes it a lot easier for me.  thanks.
[19:37] <desrt> what address?
[19:38] <Laney><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[19:40] <desrt> Laney: DMUP agreement?
[19:40] <Laney> oh, they should link to that
[19:40] <Laney> http://www.debian.org/devel/dmup
[19:40] <desrt> found it anyway.. easy to google for
[19:42] <desrt> more to the point, though, what do they mean by signed?
[19:42] <desrt> printed and signature?  pgp?
[19:43] <Laney> yeah pgp
[19:43] <desrt> "yes i agree.  ryan."
[19:43] <desrt> k.
[19:43] <Laney> i'm ryan and i approve of this machine usage policy
[19:45] <desrt> k. sent.
[19:45] <Laney> ta
[19:56] <Laney> my god mutt made that difficult
[19:56] <Laney> had to manually clearsign the message text
[20:37] <seb128> cyphermox, stgraber: do you know if somebody is looking at the wpasupplicant issues that are high ranked on errors.ubuntu.com saucy?
[20:40] <cyphermox> seb128: I am
[20:40] <cyphermox> or more precisely, I will
[20:40] <seb128> cyphermox: great, thanks
[20:40] <cyphermox> but I am now ;)
[20:40] <darkxst> seb128, so will trusty get update to gnome-control-center 3.8 or are you guys going to fork it?
[20:42] <seb128> darkxst: not sure, neither of those atm
[20:42] <seb128> but we should probably look at updating or unblocking updates for GNOME remix
[20:42] <seb128> it's just not the priority
[20:43] <seb128> darkxst: like fixing bug #1232419 which is ranked on the top saucy issues...
[20:43] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1232419 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "[xsettings]: gnome-settings-daemon crashed with SIGSEGV in notify_have_shell()" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1232419
[20:43]  * seb128 is not taking any update before we pay the bugs debt from saucy
[20:44] <darkxst> seb128, does that happen under Unity?
[20:44] <seb128> no idea
[20:44] <seb128> I just know it's the most reported g-s-d issue in Ubuntu
[20:46] <seb128> tkamppeter: did you see https://launchpad.net/bugs/1242866 and https://launchpad.net/bugs/1232947 ? (I assigned those to you earlier in the week but it seems there was no activity since)
[20:46] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1242866 in hplip (Ubuntu) "/usr/share/hplip/systray.py:ImportError:/usr/bin/hp-systray@35:/usr/share/hplip/base/module.py@30:/usr/share/hplip/base/device.py@43:/usr/share/hplip/base/status.py@59" [High,Confirmed]
[20:46] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1232947 in system-config-printer (Ubuntu) "scp-dbus-service.py crashed with ValueError in decorator(): Corrupt type signature" [High,Confirmed]
[20:47] <darkxst> seb128, it watches org.gnome.Shell (which is spoofed by Unity)
[20:47] <cyphermox> seb128: hurhg, none of it anywhere got retraced >.<
[20:49] <seb128> cyphermox: :-(
[20:49] <darkxst> seb128, so quite like notify_have_shell gets called twice on logout from Unity
[20:49] <cyphermox> seb128: gonna take a good look, perhaps I can retrace locally with enough convincing
[20:50] <seb128> cyphermox: yeah, or maybe launchpad has dumps to download
[20:50] <seb128> darkxst: could be...
[20:53] <seb128> ok, calling it a day, see you tomorrow


[00:00] <mikeit> shay_shay, but you are add some repository and if yes what repo?
[00:02] <shay_shay> none
[00:03] <shay_shay> i think the problem is sourceforge changed their webpage and it broke the functionality of the installer
[00:04] <shay_shay> python -m SimpleHTTPServer
[00:04] <shay_shay> gonna use that :D
[00:06] <mikeit> ok
[01:20] <shay_shay> well the server trick worked
[01:20] <shay_shay> but now its doing something else
[17:07] <smallfoot-> hi
[17:07] <smallfoot-> Trusty has newer version of Compiz and Firefox than Utopic
[17:45] <smallfoot-> Trusty has newer version of Compiz and Firefox than Utopic
[17:46] <Daekdroom> So...?
[18:25] <smallfoot-> so someone must fix it
[18:26] <lordievader> smallfoot-: Did you file a bug?
[18:27] <smallfoot-> no, is this a bug?
[18:28] <lordievader> smallfoot-: I've seen bug with the context of "please upgrade <package> to version <something>", whishlist bug I suppose.
[18:49] <smallfoot-> oh
[22:36] <smallfoot-> Trusty has newer version of Compiz and Firefox than Utopic


[00:36] <rafaviana> hello, good night!
[00:37] <rafaviana> I'm currently trying to get my ubuntu to recognize my notebook's Disk reader/writer drive. But I'm out of luck
[00:37] <rafaviana> I'll be glad if someone can give me some tips
[00:38] <directhex> rafaviana: you mean a burner? what have you tried?
[00:39] <rafaviana> hey, I have tried looking for drivers
[00:39] <rafaviana> I'm currently on a Vostro 33000
[00:39] <rafaviana> oops
[00:39] <rafaviana> 3300
[00:40] <rafaviana> Let me get the drive model
[00:40] <rafaviana> TSSTcorp DVD+-RW TS-U633F
[00:41] <rafaviana> When I put in disks, I was hoping they would be read out of the box
[00:41] <rafaviana> It's an ubuntu 12.04 installation
[00:42] <rafaviana> directhex: yes, it's a burner
[00:42] <directhex> rafaviana: audio discs, or data discs?
[00:43] <rafaviana> tried both
[00:43] <rafaviana> dvd movies, audio disks and data disks
[00:43] <directhex> rafaviana: if you go into nautilus (the home folder icon on unity), you don't see the disc listed on the left next to your hard drive, when you've inserted it?
[00:43] <rafaviana> the drive pops open when I push the button, and the disk even spins
[00:44] <rafaviana> No, it doesn't show up there
[00:44] <rafaviana> let me give you more details
[00:45] <rafaviana> This ubuntu is currently running off of an external HD, and it was installed into this HD from another PC
[00:45] <rafaviana> I'm afraid the driver for the burner may have not been installed or something
[00:46] <directhex> it's not a driver issue.
[00:46] <rafaviana> ok
[00:49] <rafaviana> directhex: do you have a suggestion for what I should do next?
[00:50] <directhex> i'm trying to think of suggestions which are appropriate for your level of experience
[00:50] <rafaviana> alright
[00:51] <rafaviana> I've fiddled a bit with terminal commands
[00:52] <directhex> can you try "sudo mount /dev/sr0 /mnt" with a data disc (i.e. not an audio cd) in the drive?
[00:52] <rafaviana> alright
[00:55] <rafaviana> directhex: it says the device /dev/sr0 doesn't exist
[00:56] <directhex> hmph
[00:56] <directhex> and scd0 ?
[00:56] <rafaviana> ok, hold on
[00:57] <rafaviana> directhex: same
[00:57] <directhex> hm
[00:57] <directhex> is your cd drive bay removable? can you remove & reconnect?
[00:58] <rafaviana> no, it's integrated
[01:00] <directhex> i wonder if it's powered.
[01:01] <rafaviana> I guess it is, because it spins the disk
[01:01] <rafaviana> and it opens after I push the button
[01:02] <directhex> i'm going to go to bed now.
[01:02] <rafaviana> directhex: alright man, thanks for the help
[01:03] <rafaviana> directhex: I'll keep trying here
[01:03] <rafaviana> directhex: good night!
[01:03] <directhex> rafaviana: you know you won't get many replies at 2am, right?
[01:03] <rafaviana> yea, I'm in a different time zone hehe
[01:04] <rafaviana> anyhow, thanks for the effort
[05:48] <AlanBell> morning all
[06:57] <czajkowski> aloha
[06:58] <MartijnVdS> howdy
[07:31] <DJones> Morning all
[07:57] <kvarley> I know it's a security risk
[07:58] <kvarley> But what's the easiest way to make it so my user account can read and write to /var/www ?
[08:00] <Azelphur> kvarley: it's not a security risk if you do it right
[08:00] <Azelphur> kvarley: what I usually do, is make everything in /var/www in the "www-data" group, then add my user to the www-data group
[08:00] <Azelphur> and chmod g+s /var/www so that all new files created are in the www-data group by default
[08:00] <kvarley> Azelphur: Long time now see =] Ah, ok, that seems reasonable =]
[08:00] <Azelphur> :)
[08:02] <daubers> Morning
[08:05] <dwatkins> hi folks
[08:15] <MooDoo> hello all
[08:20] <gordonjcp> morning
[08:25] <popey> bug 1005433
[08:26] <czajkowski> videobugs++
[08:34] <diplo> Morning all
[08:53] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[08:58] <gord> my imapfilter now filters away new mailing lists that i get subscribed to automatically without my intervention, gonna get down to inbox 0 some day!
[08:59] <czajkowski> heh
[09:07] <brobostigon> whats the general opinion of the playbook. ?
[09:08] <popey> dead
[09:09] <brobostigon> i am just curious to havbe a play with qnx, than the the hw.
[09:12] <popey> i recall playing with qnx probably over 10 years ago on a floppy disk they used to put out as a promo of how lean their OS was
[09:12] <popey> http://toastytech.com/guis/qnxdemo.html
[09:12] <gordonjcp> popey: yup
[09:13] <gordonjcp> I think they still have a single-floppy demo
[09:13] <gordonjcp> it was surprisingly usable
[09:13] <brobostigon> popey: i tried that also, it was very impressive.
[09:13] <gordonjcp> if they had a commercial desktop version I'd probably have bought it
[09:13] <brobostigon> gordonjcp: now that would be cool.
[09:15] <gordonjcp> it was fast and stable, even on a single floppy
[09:15] <brobostigon> gordonjcp: and nice and slim and speedy.
[10:15] <oimon> anyone using gnome classic? have a weird issue
[10:16] <popey> do you mean gnome fallback?
[10:16] <oimon> when i click on another window, chromium hops to the bottom of the screen
[10:16] <oimon> popey, yes
[10:16] <oimon> ah, not just chromium but all windows
[10:16] <oimon> well pidgin too
[10:17] <oimon> gonna log off again
[10:19] <oimon> hmm wonder if it's an incompatibility with plank dock
[10:26] <oimon> using docky instead, seems better now
[10:29] <kvarley> Getting permission denied when I try and write a file using PHP code. I have set apache2 to have the web root in my home folder, how can I give it permissions?
[10:33] <kvarley> Nvm, got it. Was a simple group issue. Added the correct groups for www-data and it works.
[10:39] <davmor2> morning all
[10:47] <dogmatic69> o/
[10:47] <jmp_> g
[11:00] <davmor2> popey: is uupc down
[11:00]  * popey checks
[11:03] <davmor2> popey: is it down for me is struggling
[11:03] <popey> yeah, working on it
[11:11] <popey> davmor2: should be back
[11:11] <davmor2> popey: yay
[11:20] <directhex> http://www.reddit.com/r/opensource/comments/u7onz/iama_mono_maintainer_in_debian_and_ubuntu_ama/
[11:34] <daubers> Managing my email has become significantly easier since I switched back to mutt
[11:37] <brobostigon> ok, this is weird, wifi connects fine, try to ping out, nothing, traceroute, nothing. i then go up to my dad, try ping on his machine, and it pings out.
[11:52] <diplo> Good read directhex , seems a fair bit of support
[11:55] <directhex> might've gotten a different reaction in /r/linux
[11:55] <directhex> might cross-post for the lulz
[11:55] <brobostigon> is using ping -I reliable. ?
[11:56] <popey> do you have multiple interfaces up brobostigon ?
[11:57] <brobostigon> popey: yes, i am connected to our routers wifi, and tethered via my mobile, trying to work out, why the adsl is messing around.
[12:21] <jacobw> afternoon
[12:27] <czajkowski> https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/198576  oh dear
[12:29] <jpds> czajkowski: Haha?
[12:30] <czajkowski> jpds: there are some interesting questions in my queue toady
[12:30] <jpds> czajkowski: Feels like what I get everyday.
[12:30] <ali1234> seriously??
[12:31] <ali1234> he accidentally installed ubuntu?
[12:31] <gordonjcp> he accidentally the whole thing
[12:31] <ali1234> i know windows users are famous for just cliicking through installers without reading anything at all but come on
[12:31] <gordonjcp> ali1234: it's easy to do by accident
[12:31] <czajkowski> jpds: https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/198556
[12:31] <gordonjcp> you only need to click about a dozen "OK" buttons and enter a username and password
[12:32] <gordonjcp> and set up your partitions
[12:32] <popey> wubi
[12:32] <popey> many fewer questions
[12:32] <ali1234> ha, wubi was always a bad idea
[12:33] <DJones> czajkowski: I read that as he was installing ubuntu on his iphone
[12:33] <gordonjcp> wubi just always seemed like the bastard child of mulinux and ubuntu
[12:33] <czajkowski> DJones: I did too as well
[12:33] <gordonjcp> an ill-starred coupling if ever there was one
[12:53] <jacobw> lol
[12:56] <gord> i installed ubuntu by accident 8 years ago and still can't get out! halp!
[13:05] <kvarley> lol
[13:05] <DJones> gord: Don't worry, it'll be EOL anyway
[13:06] <Daviey> gord will be EOL'd? oh noes.
[13:15] <jacobw> 8 years is pre 4.10 :)
[13:16] <gord> maths is difficult on a monday :(
[13:17] <gord> or it feels like eight years, take your pick
[13:21] <czajkowski> hmmm I've not had a single tea all day today
[13:22]  * diplo is on about his tenth
[13:22] <diplo> :(
[13:22] <davmor2> czajkowski: that's why you are so quiet then you should do it more often
[13:23]  * czajkowski ppeeers at davmor2
[13:23] <czajkowski> yes dear
[14:07] <czajkowski> anyone got a contact who's involved in U3 in Manchester ?
[14:08] <davmor2> czajkowski: try the mlug
[14:09] <brobostigon> i have found a weird bug, when i ping out, over the wifi, i get huge lag. i am on my tablet, same wifi, no lag. and when i tether my mobile via usb, also no problem.
[14:09] <czajkowski> davmor2: I know they re on the Ubuntu uk list as they have U cubed events :/
[14:10] <brobostigon> any test suggestions ?
[14:12] <davmor2> brobostigon: is this on a laptop
[14:12] <brobostigon> davmor2: yes, eeepc
[14:13] <davmor2> brobostigon: what kinda wifi is it and is it plugged in?
[14:14] <brobostigon> davmor2: wpa2, and power plugged in, no ethernet.
[14:15] <davmor2> brobostigon: no what wifi card is in the eeepc you have sorry
[14:16] <brobostigon> davmor2: atheros ar242x/ar542x
[14:20] <davmor2> brobostigon: possibly an issue with the driver for the card, I'm pretty sure there is an app similar to top but for networking that might give you more info other than that try the regular channels like askubuntu, wiki, forums for that card on 12.04 and see if anyone has a fix for it or has reported it
[14:21] <brobostigon> davmor2: ok, thanks. i have tried another wifi usb adapter, and get the same thing, so i dont think it is limited to driver.
[14:22] <davmor2> brobostigon: unless the usbadapter has the same chip in it
[14:23] <brobostigon> davmor2: let me look.
[14:23] <davmor2> brobostigon: I had the issue while my system is unplugged from the mains
[14:23] <davmor2> but it only ever effected me once
[14:24] <brobostigon> davmor2: the other adapter is a rtl8187l
[14:38] <brobostigon> davmor2: i htink i have narrowed it down abit, because if i disble the atheros, and use only the other adator, is does behave abit better. but not aswell. so i think it could be difinate to the atheros drivers.
[14:49] <gord> bbc news on top form again ;) http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-05-28-bbc-news-mistakes-halo-unsc-logo-for-un
[14:54] <Azelphur> lmao
[14:54] <funkyHat> ⢁D
[15:50] <brobostigon> i think the bug i found earlier is new, i have found nothing on the kernel bug tracker, not launchpad.
[15:50] <brobostigon> nor*
[15:59]  * daubers has just been given whiskey from Japan
[15:59] <daubers> sorry, whisky (no e in this one)
[16:00] <MartijnVdS> daubers: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_saLrADKqNM ?
[16:00] <daubers> MartijnVdS: http://www.thewhiskyexchange.com/P-2941.aspx
[16:00] <MartijnVdS> daubers: I only know that one (from Lost in Translation) :)
[16:00] <oimon> i have backports repo enabled, but only v0.85 gets installed ...why's that? http://paste.ubuntu.com/1011494/
[16:00] <daubers> heh :)
[16:01] <oimon> ^^ trying to install v0.91 of gnome-do
[16:01] <MartijnVdS> oimon: you might need to specify you want a backport
[16:01] <MartijnVdS> oimon: because of default pinning
[16:03] <oimon> MartijnVdS, oh thanks. how?
[16:03] <MartijnVdS> oimon: debian or ubuntu backports? :)
[16:03] <oimon> software centre is ebnabled
[16:03] <oimon> ubuntu
[16:03] <MartijnVdS> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports
[16:03] <MartijnVdS> apt-get install packagename_here/distro-backports
[16:04] <MartijnVdS> so oneiric-backports
[16:04] <MartijnVdS> or precise-ba[Dckports
[16:04] <MartijnVdS> etc.
[16:04] <oimon>  sudo apt-get install gnome-do/precise-backports
[16:04] <oimon> sweeet/ thanks
[16:31] <stilia-johny> hi there!
[16:31]  * stilia-johny is anyone that know about opencv?
[16:49] <jacobw> stilia-johny: i can't see an irc channel or a mailing list referenced on their website
[16:49] <jacobw> stilia-johny: just a yahoo group
[16:52] <MartijnVdS> A group of yahoos then?
[16:52] <jacobw> presumably :)
[17:51]  * popey thinks gord might want to vote for this T-shirt to made. http://www.threadless.com/submission/426127/Boba_Fett_BAMF
[18:02] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Tony] Cookie monster - http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2012/05/28/cookie-monster/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=cookie-monster
[18:02] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu Accomplishments Web Gallery: Django Developers Needed! - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/05/28/ubuntu-accomplishments-web-gallery-django-developers-needed/
[18:38] <Azelphur> still got issues lol
[19:08] <jacobw> Azelphur: what's up?
[19:09] <Azelphur> uhh good question, I have no recollection of typing that or any idea why I typed it
[19:09] <Azelphur> maybe it was a wrong window and I didn't realise...weird
[19:18] <TheOpenSourcerer> Anyone got a "sorting" algorithm? I have a set of data (csv) with an id column and a parentid column. There may be multiple levels of parent-child relationship. I need to get the data ordered so that the "top-level" parents come first.
[19:20] <ali1234> b-tree?
[19:20] <TheOpenSourcerer> I'm not even sure if there is a name for what I am trying to do. Is that what a b-tree is?
[19:21] <ali1234> not really
[19:21] <ali1234> i'm not 100% clear on what you mean
[19:21] <ali1234> actually, i'm not 100% clear why you want that
[19:21] <TheOpenSourcerer> So I have a shedload of companies in a csv file.
[19:22] <TheOpenSourcerer> they have an id and some have a parent id (a company within a company like a department for example.)
[19:22] <TheOpenSourcerer> the parent id is the id of another row in the csv
[19:23] <ali1234> so you want to sort the items by depth in the tree
[19:23] <jacobw> you want to sort by depth?
[19:23] <TheOpenSourcerer> Dunno? DO i?
[19:23] <ali1234> yes
[19:23] <TheOpenSourcerer> sorry Do I?
[19:23] <ali1234> yes you do :)
[19:23] <penguin42> TheOpenSourcerer: You want to sort based on the colour of the logo?
[19:23] <TheOpenSourcerer> :-)
[19:24] <jacobw> penguin42: that hurt my brain just then :p
[19:24] <ali1234> so, my question is why do you want to do this?
[19:24] <penguin42> jacobw: I didn't assume any of his previous statements about his CSV had any implication on what he wanted to do with it!
[19:25] <jacobw> :)
[19:25] <TheOpenSourcerer> Because the application I to which I am sending this data, really doesn't like it when a row wants to have a parent that doesn't exist yet.
[19:25] <ali1234> i see, fair enough
[19:25] <ali1234> so you don't actually need what you originally asked for :)
[19:25] <TheOpenSourcerer> DOn't I?
[19:26] <ali1234> you just need to make sure that a given node is always after it's parent
[19:26] <ali1234> so the way you do this is load all the items then walk the tree depth first (which is the easiest way) outputting the items
[19:26] <TheOpenSourcerer> OK - And is there a name for that kind of sort?
[19:26] <ali1234> no, cos it isn't a sort at all
[19:26] <ali1234> it's just depth first tree walking
[19:27] <penguin42> TheOpenSourcerer: Construct a column that is currentrow-parentcolumn, and sort on it
[19:27] <penguin42> hmm - can you do that?
[19:27] <ali1234> i don't understand that
[19:27] <TheOpenSourcerer> penguin they are not numerical like that.
[19:27] <penguin42> thinking about it, I'm not sure I do now :-)
[19:28] <ali1234> what language?
[19:28] <jacobw> so what determines the parent relationship?
[19:29] <TheOpenSourcerer> I have it as a csv, Don't really care about language but as I am using Talend a java routine would be helpful. But know I know what it is called I google for it ;-)
[19:29] <ali1234> this is what you need to do: load all the items one by one into a dict/hash/associative array/ whatever your language calls it
[19:29] <TheOpenSourcerer> Thanks.
[19:29] <ali1234> indexed on the ID
[19:30] <ali1234> then iterate the items and build a tree structure from it
[19:30] <ali1234> basically that means for each item, add it to it's parent
[19:30] <AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: alternatively do a multi-pass import
[19:30] <ali1234> if no parent add it to a special root node
[19:31]  * jacobw really wants to do a CS degree sometime
[19:31] <AlanBell> so import once, some will fail, import again (don't import successful imported rows) and more will succeed, keep going until the number of imported records matches the number you wanted to import
[19:31] <ali1234> then starting at the root node output the first child. terminate on leaf nodes etc
[19:31] <ali1234> AlanBell: yuck
[19:31] <AlanBell> yeah, yuck, but simple and effective for a once only data load
[19:32] <ali1234> not really. how do you tell if any failed?
[19:32] <ali1234> what if the software just bombs out horribly?
[19:32] <AlanBell> doesn't matter, you just keep going until no more additional rows get added
[19:32] <ali1234> ow
[19:32] <ali1234> what if it just adds duplicates?
[19:33] <AlanBell> well don't add duplicates :)
[19:33] <jacobw> that's not good for time complexity
[19:33] <AlanBell> you can then export the whole thing and compare against the original data
[19:33] <ali1234> argh
[19:33] <AlanBell> depends what time you are optimising, computer time or human time
[19:34] <jacobw> ali1234's method would run in linear time for the number of items
[19:34] <ali1234> human has to sit and do it too
[19:35] <jacobw> the duplicate problem is already a counter example requiring a new operation for each item
[19:35] <jacobw> anyhow, as long it works for the person concerned it's good :)
[19:35] <AlanBell> and something that should probably be easy/already done
[19:35] <AlanBell> anyhow, it is just one possible strategy
[19:35] <jacobw> yeah, i would think this a common requirement
[19:36] <TheOpenSourcerer> One would have thought so...
[19:36] <ali1234> what value is used when there's no parent?
[19:37] <jacobw> are there any items with a non existant parent?
[19:37] <ali1234> there must be at least one
[19:37] <Laney> it could be cyclic
[19:37] <ali1234> it could be
[19:38] <ali1234> but that would make it impossible to import
[19:38] <ali1234> at least with alanbell's method :)
[19:38] <jacobw> yeah, what i mean is do all items without parents have a property that only items without parents have or do they have some other unpredictable property
[19:39] <ali1234> it's csv so i'm guessing it's just null or 0 or something
[19:39] <jacobw> i.e. is the parent relationship property null or invalid in the propsed tree?
[19:39]  * jacobw hopes so
[19:40] <TheOpenSourcerer> ali1234: Yes. Rows without a parent have a empty value in the "parent" column
[19:42] <ali1234> hmm is a python list inside a tuple mutable?
[19:42] <AlanBell> so sorting by that and doing all the unparented nodes first would get fairly close if most things are not two level nested
[19:43] <ali1234> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1011860/
[19:43] <jacobw> i think so
[19:43] <ali1234> i forgot import sys
[19:44] <ali1234> that should do it though
[19:44] <TheOpenSourcerer> kewl - thanks ali1234
[19:45] <ali1234> you must fix get_ids to actually get the ids
[19:45] <ali1234> they don't need to be numeric though
[19:51] <ali1234> TheOpenSourcerer:  fixed up version http://paste.ubuntu.com/1011869/
[19:51] <ali1234> heh, argh it stil has bugs
[19:52] <ali1234> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1011872/
[19:56] <jacobw> is a python list in a tuple mutable?
[19:56] <ali1234> yes it is
[19:56] <jacobw> how mutable?
[19:56] <ali1234> completely mutable
[19:56] <jacobw> can you add new items or just modify existing items
[19:56] <jacobw> ok, cool :)
[19:57] <jacobw> this makes sense
[20:16] <TheOpenSourcerer> ali1234: That is very cool - thanks a bunch. The output looks perfect.
[20:18]  * AlanBell applauds ali1234 for the not quick-and-dirty solution
[20:18] <AlanBell> but still quite quick
[20:19] <ali1234> i bet it was quicker than importing multiple times and then manually checking everything is ok :)
[20:19] <TheOpenSourcerer> bloody quick actually. >11000 rows in about a second.
[20:19] <ali1234> yeah, not really any reason for it to be slow. there is no sorting at all
[20:19] <TheOpenSourcerer> Plus the 30 minutes or so trying to grok what I was trying to do.
[20:20] <ali1234> well, i suppose the dict is sorted
[20:20] <ali1234> sort-of anyway
[21:11] <czajkowski> evening chaparoos
[21:12] <AlanBell> hullo czajkowski
[21:13] <czajkowski> AlanBell: eh o
[21:13] <AlanBell> eh o lala
[21:13] <AlanBell> :)
[21:15]  * AlanBell wonders if tellytubbies is still going
[21:15] <AlanBell> hmm, stopped in 2002 after 365 episodes, I suspect I have seen them all
[21:16] <ali1234> "in the night garden" is pretty much the same show
[21:16] <AlanBell> yeah, but iggle piggle is more obnoxious
[21:38]  * AlanBell is going to http://www.royalalberthall.com/tickets/go-surrey/default.aspx tomorrow
[21:39] <brobostigon> enjoy.
[21:53] <gordonjcp> oh man I love random shuffle play
[21:54] <gordonjcp> "AKAI_AX73_Factory_Patch_Tape.mp3", I love that tune
[21:54] <AlanBell> on heavy rotation
[21:55] <gordonjcp> AlanBell: well yeah
[21:55] <gordonjcp> everybody needs some earsplitting FSK tones
[21:55] <ali1234> sometimes i get transcription mp3s
[21:55] <AlanBell> it is where dubstep came from
[21:55] <ali1234> i dunno who thought up this idea of having the computer automatically index everything
[21:55] <ali1234> but it really sucks
[21:58] <ali1234> i hate when i'm busily working on some code and realise i've been listening to a lecture about obstetrics for 20 minutes
[22:02] <bigcalm_laptop> Ello :)
[22:03] <popey> yo bigcalm_laptop
[22:03] <bigcalm_laptop> Howdy popey :)
[22:05] <bigcalm_laptop> Hotel wifi is costly. Thank goodness for 3g teathering
[22:05] <gordonjcp> ali1234: lol
[22:13] <czajkowski> I've updated my slides from the weekend from flossie if anyone is looking for them http://ubuntuone.com/6g8b4YTsYZVtfLJDbcFsZj - Baby steps into an open source community.
[22:15] <bigcalm_laptop> czajkowski: hello from NI o/
[22:15] <bigcalm_laptop> czajkowski: we're visiting Dublin on Wednesday :D
[22:16] <czajkowski> bigcalm_laptop: evening
[22:35] <ali1234> https://plus.google.com/108463274542772401626/about
[22:37] <shauno> bigcalm_laptop: don't do it.  the sun's made them crazy!
[22:40] <popey> ali1234: who he?
[22:40] <ali1234> popey: he's the king of pascal!
[22:40] <popey> of course
[22:41]  * popey clicks "add to circles"
[22:41] <ali1234> he's a relatively famous usenet guy from back in the day
[22:42] <ali1234> profile says it all really
[22:45] <ali1234> this is where g+ is winning: it appeals to people who rolled their eyes and carried on walking when facebook came out
[22:46] <ali1234> they're not really winning. it's not like they have any competition. all the other social networks are picking up young people who never used the internet before.
[22:47] <bigcalm_laptop> Sleepy time :)
[22:47] <bigcalm_laptop> Toodles!
[22:50] <shauno> g+ is actually pretty nifty, I just don't like that it's google's.  I prefer to keep them at a safe distance.  they already know too much
[22:51] <ali1234> yeah there is that
[22:51] <shauno> apparently not a common stance tho, given the amount of data people are willing to feed facebook
[22:53] <ali1234> old timers are pretty comfortable with the knowledge that every hop between you are the server can see everything
[22:53]  * penguin42 works on the basis that google knows everything else about me so what the heck
[22:58] <directhex> hm......... so, which is preferable: a library in non-free due to a closed-source but distributable component, or the library in main with a chunk of functionality removed by force?
[22:58] <ali1234> depends how important the functionality is
[22:58] <ali1234> but i'd say non-free
[22:59] <penguin42> directhex: Can you split the package so that you get the functionality if you install the non-free bit?
[23:00] <directhex> penguin42, no. it's a core requirement and cannot be split
[23:00] <directhex> well, not cleanly
[23:00] <penguin42> hmph that sucks
[23:00] <directhex> it can be split violently and without caring about the bleeding
[23:00]  * penguin42 hands directhex an axe and gaffer tape
[23:00] <directhex> which is option 2
[23:01] <penguin42> directhex: What's the package, what's the functionality and what's the non-free bit?
[23:02] <directhex> penguin42, monogame, a library which enables development (and porting) of XNA games. fr'example, there's an unofficial port of Terraria to linux via monogame. the closed-source component is the joypad support
[23:02] <penguin42> and in what way is it closed-source - where did it come from under whatlicense?
[23:03] <penguin42> is it closed source and distributable or closed-source hard luck?
[23:03] <directhex> https://github.com/mono/MonoGame/blob/develop/ThirdParty/GamepadConfig/License.txt
[23:04] <penguin42> ah...mono
[23:04] <ali1234> can't it check for the assembly at runtime?
[23:05] <directhex> ali1234, in theory, but it hasn't been written to do it like that, and existing games wouldn't run since they link directly against the lib rather than runtime loading it
[23:06] <penguin42> directhex: so in practice is everything going to want gamepad support and therefor it's useless to have a package without it?  If so then just go with the non-free
[23:06] <ali1234> so how would you make a "free" version? just put in a stub assembly that does nothing?
[23:06] <directhex> ali1234, yep
[23:06] <ali1234> yeah i have to say non-free
[23:06] <directhex> penguin42, well, that's what i'm not sure about.
[23:07] <ali1234> anyone who cares about the difference between free and non-free probably isn't using mono anyway
[23:07] <penguin42> directhex: I'm not a gamer, gamepads sound kind of useful to it though, although I guess some are keyboard/mouse/joystick/mindcontrol playable
[23:08] <directhex> ali1234, i've done a copyright audit on 450 source files tonight. how's your day going? :p
[23:08] <ali1234> i mended a fence
[23:09] <directhex> were the planks Free?
[23:09] <ali1234> i dunno
[23:11] <penguin42> directhex: They had a clause that disallowed you using them to create a walled garden
[23:12] <directhex> penguin42, that doesn't sound very liberal. people should be free to build the gardens of their choice!
[23:28] <shauno> speaking of mono, I enjoyed your AMA directhex :)
[23:29] <directhex> shauno, utterly exhausting!
[23:32] <shauno> it was mildly entertaining to see the questions turn into "how do you sleep at night" as soon as you cross-posted /r/linux too
[23:33] <directhex> 56 replies on /r/opensource, 47 on /r/linux
[23:33] <directhex> that takes a while to type
[23:33] <directhex> even if the answers are short
[23:34] <directhex> /r/linux was obviously going to be a more hostile audience. i expected that.
[23:34] <shauno> well, thumbs up.  it was interesting
[23:41] <directhex> I don't need thumbs, I need upvotes! precious upvotes!


[12:55] <hardaway> what is the status of Dell and HP preloading Ubuntu
[12:56] <Burgwork> hardaway: good luck
[12:57] <hardaway> Now that Michael has stepped back in as CEO maybe he will be open to an opportunity--if Mark S. will meet with him
[12:59] <hardaway> Ubuntu needs to partner with IBM to offer support at universities to help students load Ubuntu on their laptops and get rid of windows
[01:01] <ChaosEddie> ubuntu needs to bomb the windows HQ too. my opinion of course
[01:01] <hardaway> I think it is very doable
[01:02] <ChaosEddie> we'll I am working on a plan to distirbute ubuntu at my college
[01:02] <hardaway> It is in IBM's interest
[01:02] <hardaway> I have many students that once they learn of open source and Ubuntu want it
[01:03] <hardaway> Mark S. needs to talk with Scott Handy at IBM
[01:03] <hardaway> The time is now--Vista is a disaster
[01:04] <hardaway> Who is the strategic planner for Ubuntu
[01:06] <hardaway> I guess there are no marketing people from Ubuntu on this channel
[01:13] <Burgwork> hmm
[05:42] <Admiral_Chicago> hopefully some more people can get to UWN 30
[05:43] <Admiral_Chicago> i've done some more additions but I'm way busy with school work
[05:45] <ScottK> When are you trying to release it?
[05:46] <ScottK> Admiral_Chicago: I may have some more time in 12 - 18 hours.
[05:52] <Admiral_Chicago> the release is really up to Corey
[05:53] <Admiral_Chicago> I won't have time until tomorrow night (24 UTC, probably later than that(
[05:54] <ScottK> OK.  If I get a chance I'll pop back in tomorrow and see if I can help out.
[05:54] <Admiral_Chicago> message me if you can
[05:54] <ScottK> OK.
[05:54] <ScottK> WIll do.
[05:55] <Admiral_Chicago> thanks. afk now
[05:56] <dotwaffle> Admiral_Chicago: URL for UWN 30?
[05:57] <Admiral_Chicago> dotwaffle: it's on gobby
[05:57] <dotwaffle> Ah, right. Never mind. I can't edit Corey's Gobby stuff for some reason
[05:57] <dotwaffle> I think Feisty's Gobby has barfed.
[05:57] <Admiral_Chicago> it's been working for me since Herd 1
[05:58] <dotwaffle> Admiral_Chicago: Really?
[05:58] <dotwaffle> Can you message me the ip please?
[11:40] <coNP> Hello, I don't know if it is the proper way / if this has been reported yet, but http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/herd4 has broken links in the "tests" section, I guess the four testing links 'www.ubuntu.com' should be replaced with 'wiki.ubuntu.com'.
[11:40] <tsmithe> argh this always happens
[11:41] <coNP> hey tsmithe :)
[11:41] <tsmithe> heya
[11:42] <tsmithe> file a bug on the ubuntu-website product
[11:42] <tsmithe> :S
[11:42] <tsmithe> unless it's not already been filed
[11:42] <coNP> are you sure you want me to do that?
[11:42] <tsmithe> *unless it has already been filed even
[11:42] <tsmithe> coNP, yup
[11:42] <tsmithe> why not?
[11:44] <coNP> tsmithe: okay I thought you can fix some links :)
[11:44] <tsmithe> nope
[11:44] <tsmithe> i can't
[11:47] <coNP> tsmithe: do you think https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website/+bug/76244 is enough or should I file this in a separate bug
[11:48] <coNP> if it is going to get fixed, this resolves my issue as well, however, based on the comments, I am not sure this happens in the near future (if ever) :)
[11:48] <tsmithe> file a new one, and link to that, saying it would be nice if that got fixed
[11:48] <coNP> okay, thanks, tsmithe
[11:48] <tsmithe> ;)
[02:24] <MenZa> Sundaay, bloody Sunday!
[02:33] <tsmithe> sunday?
[02:33] <tsmithe> it's monday...
[02:36] <coNP> tsmithe: I guess somewhere it has been still Sunday when MenZa wrote this
[02:36] <tsmithe> are there any places utc-13?
[02:36] <tsmithe> that doesn't really make much sense
[02:36] <coNP> tsmithe: no, it is not possible :)
[02:36] <tsmithe> :)
[02:37] <coNP> tsmithe: so you were right
[02:37] <tsmithe> hehe yup ;)
[02:38] <coNP> We might need this however, for marketing issues: we also support utc-13 (if we really do) :)
[02:40] <xopher> Does ubuntu have it's marketing strategy available for the public somewhere? eg. mission, vision and that crap
[02:42] <tsmithe> ubuntu? who's that?
[02:42] <tsmithe> it's basically get out there and "sell"
[02:43] <tsmithe> you could take a look at wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam and diy.devubuntu.com
[02:44] <tsmithe> in particular, http://diy.devubuntu.com/spread.php
[07:27] <nixternal> juliux: you around?
[07:28] <juliux> nixternal, yes
[07:28] <juliux> nixternal, sorry i forgot to send you your shirts
[07:28] <nixternal> heh, I was just going to ask you who you ship them through so I know to keep a lookout for them
[07:28] <nixternal> UPS and the Mailman know where to stash my stuff, other shipping companies don't
[07:28] <juliux> i will send you them this wek
[07:29] <juliux> i will send them via dhl
[07:29] <nixternal> OK, I think they tend to come early
[07:30] <juliux> i will send you shirts the next days
[07:30] <nixternal> that's cool juliux, I trust ya :)  They get here when they get here, as long as they get here :)
[07:30] <juliux> i have so sort all the stuff i have here
[07:30] <juliux> to not so
[07:31] <nixternal> I received another international shipment today, so I thought it might be you, but it is UPS
[07:31] <juliux> ups is to expansive
[07:31] <nixternal> anywho, that's cool. I need to get back to my homework before class here pretty soon
[07:31] <juliux> have fun;)
[07:31] <nixternal> juliux: ya it is, but I didn't order anything, so someone is shipping me something for free
[07:31] <juliux> nixternal, great;9
[07:31] <nixternal> hehe, will do. yay homework rocks!
[07:31] <juliux> i will have dinner now
[07:32] <nixternal> hehe, thanks again, ttyl
[10:27] <mindspin> hi hwo is responsible for uwn now, nixternal?
[10:27] <crimsun> corey and cory, last I checked
[10:28] <mindspin> corey burger?
[10:28] <tsmithe> yes
[10:28] <tsmithe> and cody somerville
[10:28] <tsmithe> ^^ not cory somerville ;)
[10:28] <mindspin> ;-)
[10:29] <mindspin> ok then I know who to contact
[10:29] <tsmithe> whatcha want?
[10:30] <mindspin> I want to translate (k)uwn to german
[10:30] <tsmithe> do so!
[10:30] <tsmithe> and then tell cory/cody
[10:30] <mindspin> and it would be nice if we could have it even partwise a little " in advance"
[10:31] <tsmithe> well, you may like to e-mail burgundavia[at] ubuntu.com
[10:31] <tsmithe> (that's corey)
[10:31] <mindspin> Ithanks, I think I have his e-mail already ;-)
[10:32] <tsmithe> ah k :)
[11:02] <mindspin> juliux ping
[11:03] <juliux> mindspin, ping
[11:37] <tonyyarusso> juliux_: pong, it's pong.
[11:38] <juliux_> tonyyarusso, pong
[11:38] <juliux_> tonyyarusso, how can i help you?
[11:38] <tonyyarusso> but only in response to ping...Thou shalt not count two unless thou then procedeth on to three!
[11:38] <tonyyarusso> juliux_: was referring to your mindspin exchange.
[11:39] <juliux_> tonyyarusso, ah
[11:39] <mindspin> uh
[11:39] <mindspin> thank you very much juliux
[11:39] <juliux> mindspin, you are welcome;)


[03:40] <killerpot> hi<
[03:40] <killerpot> someone speak french
[03:40] <Unit193> !fr
[03:42] <linuxdude> hello
[03:42] <killerpot> !fr
[03:43] <linuxdude> anyone knows of a good book explaining udev? Yes I've read the man page
[03:44] <killerpot> i install unbuntu in a 78 gig patition ans now my windows 7 dont want load i chose ''swap'' on a 200 go partition and unbuntu  tell me chosse importe i chose win7 and now my windows 7 dont want to load help me plz all the day i try for that!
[03:45] <linuxdude> killerpot: did you install ubuntu after window 7?
[03:45] <killerpot> yes
[03:46] <killerpot> in seethe windows loader in grub but dosent work
[03:46] <killerpot> dosent want to load
[03:46] <killerpot> im in reseifs
[03:46] <killerpot> reserfs
[03:46] <killerpot> oupss reiserfs
[03:47] <killerpot> lol
[03:47] <linuxdude> can you see your window partition?
[03:47] <killerpot> yes i acced the file in unbuntu 12.04 lst
[03:47] <killerpot> sotrry my first laguage is french but im good in english
[03:48] <linuxdude> can you see the window 7 partition?
[03:48] <killerpot> read up
[03:48] <killerpot> yes i acced the file in unbuntu 12.04 lst
[03:48] <killerpot> 43 gig windows 7 partiton
[03:48] <killerpot> i see the file in unbuntuy
[03:49] <killerpot> what can i do?
[03:49] <killerpot> salut jonath
[03:49] <linuxdude> I would reinstall grub
[03:49] <killerpot> its istall automaticly with unbuntu
[03:50] <linuxdude> something up with the grub config file
[03:50] <killerpot> whre is the llast version of grub?
[03:50] <killerpot> py partiton is always there
[03:50] <killerpot> plz i dont whant losse my files on windows 7
[03:51] <killerpot> i put
[03:51] <killerpot> acroni system selector old version acrnis 10 dosent work
[03:51] <linuxdude> back them up
[03:52] <linuxdude> if you can get into your window 7 partition like you said you can
[03:52] <linuxdude> from ubuntu
[03:52] <linuxdude> just drg and drop
[03:53] <killerpot> yes i can
[03:53] <killerpot> can you help me on skype?
[03:53] <killerpot> plz
[03:53] <killerpot> im a cool guy
[04:25] <killerpot> trop cave ca linux la je les me me pas capable delinstaler siboire
[04:32] <arka> hiii
[04:38] <arka> hii
[04:58] <decci> I read about Firmwate Test Suite from canonical recently. Is it a new feature?
[04:59] <decci> Seems like old feature
[05:01] <decci> How shall I know new features coming up with Ubuntu 12.10
[05:55] <iHarp> Can someone tell me how I might be able to fix my cups system? I think I broke it.. :p
[05:56] <iHarp> I d/l the updated version in a tar ball and followed the install.txt.. However it now just says internal error when I go 127.0.01:631/admin
[05:59] <Orcris> My file system just became read only. What should I do to fix this?
[06:00] <Orcris> I don't think the hard drive is failing. The computer's pretty new
[06:01] <Orcris> I don't know what I did to cause this. I was just doing some normal web browsing.
[06:03] <amason> Orcris: usually happens if you have filesystem errors
[06:03] <amason> have a look at dmesg
[06:04] <amason> you can remount it read write using the mount command
[06:04] <Orcris> Okay. Thanks.
[06:04] <amason> but if it's been made read only it's probably for a reason and to protect the filesystem
[06:43] <ramchandra> hello all :-)
[06:44] <ramchandra> sorry wrong IRC
[07:17] <arkanayan> hello, anyone here ?
[07:21] <Charlos> Hello all
[07:21] <Charlos> charlos@ubuntu:~$ chmod a+x jre-7u5-linux-i586.tar.gz chmod: cannot access `jre-7u5-linux-i586.tar.gz': No such file or directory
[07:22] <Charlos> download java is /temp
[07:22] <Charlos> how to make  ?
[07:22] <arkanayan> hii
[07:22] <Charlos> Hey
[07:23] <arkanayan> anyone know, how to install video and audio codecs on kubuntu in .deb format ? Thanks...
[07:23] <Charlos> tell me know
[07:23] <Charlos> how to make done
[07:23] <Charlos> charlos@ubuntu:~$ chmod a+x jre-7u5-linux-i586.tar.gz chmod: cannot access `jre-7u5-linux-i586.tar.gz': No such file or directory
[07:24] <arkanayan> anyone know, how to install video and audio codecs on kubuntu in .deb format ? Thanks...
[07:25] <jussi> arkanayan: you meran how to install from the software repo? or ?
[07:25] <Charlos> cd /usr/java/
[07:26] <Charlos> bash: cd: /usr/java/: No such file or directory
[07:26] <arkanayan> no..i want to direct download deb files so i can use them offline ? thnx
[07:27] <arkanayan> hello ?
[07:27] <Charlos> stupids is offline here idiat
[07:29] <jdrs> wget is what you want to use.
[07:29] <jussi> arkanayan: ahh, you can download files at archive.ubuntu.org, or hang on a sec, let me see if the other service is still working
[07:30] <jussi> !offline | arkanayan
[07:30] <arkanayan> ya offline...
[07:30] <jussi> arkanayan: go have a look at that site listed there
[07:30] <jdrs> a simple google search will give you this -> http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-1100816.html
[07:30] <arkanayan> sure..thnx
[07:30] <arkanayan> i searched google many times...
[07:31] <jussi> arkanayan: in anycase, see the link I showed
[07:31] <arkanayan> ok...
[07:31] <jdrs> The one I posted is like a more detailed instruction like the one posted by jussi
[07:33] <arkanayan> what is the keyboard shortcut to open terminal in kubuntu ?
[07:34] <jdrs> I don't think there's a default shortcut for it. Because I've set mine like manually. But you can press alt+F2 then type Terminal
[07:39] <m2k1981> hii
[07:39] <amason> hello
[10:14] <jdrs> Hey, I haven't been getting a lot of updates lately. Is kde 4.9 in the repos already?
[10:27] <Riddell> jdrs: it's in 12.10 and in kubuntu-ppa/backports for 12.04
[10:28] <jdrs> RIddell: is it gonna go to offcial kubuntu 12.04 repos?
[10:31] <jdrs> Nvm. I've read it's gonna be available someday.
[10:51] <markus> it seems udeftest no longer exists
[10:52] <markus> how would I add new udev rules now?
[10:57] <nvn> what is 'k' in kubuntu
[10:57] <DFrostedWang> KDE
[10:57] <DFrostedWang> You new to this?
[10:58] <nvn> ya new
[10:58] <nvn> :)
[10:58] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[10:58] <DFrostedWang> Kubuntu / Xubuntu / Ubuntu / Lubuntu / etc...
[10:58] <nvn> exapnd KDE
[10:58] <mydogsnameisrudy> morning BluesKaj
[10:58] <DFrostedWang> KDE / XFCE / Unity / LXDE
[10:58] <nvn> expand KDE
[10:59] <DFrostedWang> K Desktop Environment
[10:59] <nvn> "K" ??
[10:59] <DFrostedWang> The appearance of your desktop
[10:59] <DFrostedWang> K for KDE
[10:59] <BluesKaj> 'morning mydogsnameisrudy
[10:59] <DFrostedWang> I can't explain any better
[10:59] <DFrostedWang> BluesKaj: ?
[11:00] <nvn> nope..i wana knw wt K stands fro in KDE
[11:00] <nvn> *for
[11:00] <DFrostedWang> K
[11:00] <DFrostedWang> I think that's all it stands for
[11:00] <nvn> superb ans :D
[11:00] <nvn> there shld be some meaning in it
[11:00] <nvn> :)
[11:00] <DFrostedWang> There should
[11:00] <DFrostedWang> But I am a n00b
[11:00] <nvn> thats y i has been named like that
[11:01] <nvn> can anyone expand "KDE"
[11:02] <nvn>  can anyone expand "KDE"
[11:03] <ikonia> "Kommon Desktop Environment"
[11:03] <DFrostedWang> Nope
[11:03] <ikonia> it's a pun on the old "CDE" environment
[11:03] <DFrostedWang> Oh
[11:03] <DFrostedWang> Yep
[11:03] <ikonia> which was legacy unix platforms desktop
[11:03] <DFrostedWang> Thanx for that, ikonia. I didn't know that. :D
[11:04] <Unit193> http://dot.kde.org/2009/11/24/repositioning-kde-brand
[11:05] <BluesKaj> nvn, et al ,  The K in KDE does not stand for anything. It is the character that comes before L in the Latin alphabet, which stands for Linux.
[11:05] <lordievader> Good afternoon
[11:05] <DFrostedWang> lordievader: Good mornin'
[11:06] <BluesKaj> that's the explanation I got many yrs ago
[11:06] <lordievader> Hey DFrostedWang, how are you?
[11:06] <DFrostedWang> Not bad...
[11:06] <DFrostedWang> Where do I know you from?
[11:06] <DFrostedWang> I have a terrible memory
[11:07] <lordievader> DFrostedWang: Euhmm, not sure? Perhaps from this room?
[11:07] <DFrostedWang> Besides here, I thought I met you in another room
[11:07] <DFrostedWang> Must have been someone else. NVM.
[11:07] <Unit193> http://kde.org/announcements/announcement.php  Would indicate "Kool" was it.
[11:07] <DFrostedWang> I am good, in any case.
[11:08] <lordievader> DFrostedWang: Could have been ##hardware.
[11:08] <DFrostedWang> Sounds familiar
[11:08] <lordievader> DFrostedWang: Good to hear :)
[11:09] <DFrostedWang> Wait, maybe ##linux
[11:09] <DFrostedWang> ?
[11:09] <lordievader> DFrostedWang: I think not, for as far as I know I have never visited ##linux, anyhow this is more a conversation for #kubuntu-offtopic.
[11:10] <DFrostedWang> I was about to suggest that
[12:25] <phoenix_firebrd> hello everyone
[12:33] <lordievader> Hey phoenix_firebrd, how are you?
[12:34] <phoenix_firebrd> lordievader: hi, i am fine, how are you
[12:34] <lordievader> phoenix_firebrd: I'm doing good, trying to decide what I am going to eat tonight...
[12:35] <phoenix_firebrd> lordievader: me, enjoying the climate :)
[12:39] <lordievader> phoenix_firebrd: Good to hear :)
[15:13] <pupoque> hi. i booted kubuntu 12.04 liveusb on my toshiba portege z930 laptop. and i see that Fn+Z doesn't toggle the keyboard backlight.
[15:14] <pupoque> xev shows some info about the hotkey containing XF86KbdLightOnOff
[15:19] <DarthFrog> I'm beginning to hate the ATI fglrx drivers.  :-(  Firefox and Thunderbird have massive video corruption.  But the open-source Radeon drivers aren't fast enough.
[15:44] <freinhard> hi!
[15:44] <freinhard> some update broke grub for my old i386 laptop with 12.04
[15:44] <freinhard> no problem, but...
[15:45] <freinhard> that laptop doesn't feature pae, so i can't boot the live-cd  *face palm*...
[15:46] <freinhard> besides that laptop can't boot from usb and i got one CD left
[15:46] <freinhard> so which iso do i want to use for that last CD so i can fix grub?
[15:46] <freinhard> i found the mini.iso but can't tell if i can fix grub with that one
[15:47] <DarthFrog> freinhard: You want to match the bitness of the installed version.
[15:47] <freinhard> DarthFrog: 12.04, live-cd 12.04 doesn't work
[15:48] <DarthFrog> What happens when you try to boot it?
[16:09] <morze_47> Hi! After i have installed nvidia drivers after running nvidia-xconfig i got 640*480 max resolution on my notebook. Tried to install bumblebee and other drivers, but that didn`t help. I have Nvidia Optimus with GEFORCE GT 325M and Intel GPUs.
[16:09] <morze_47> What can I do to fix this?
[16:11] <morze_47> When running Nvidia X Server Settings i get "You do not appear to be using the NVIDIA X driver."
[16:12] <OerHeks> Optimus/bumblebee, maybe the guys in #bumblebee can help, morze_47
[16:16] <morze_47> Thanks, I`ll try ask them.
[17:15] <freinhard> DarthFrog: when i boot the 12.04 iso, it asks for pae which isn't supported by the laptops CPU
[17:45] <lordievader> Good evening
[17:46] <phoenix_firebrd> lordievader: good evening
[17:46] <lordievader> phoenix_firebrd: Hey, how are you?
[17:47] <phoenix_firebrd> lordievader: I am fine also in the evening :)
[17:47] <phoenix_firebrd> lordievader: actually is 30 min to midnight
[17:47] <lordievader> Nice that it hasn't changed.
[17:47] <lordievader> Here it is just 19:47
[17:49] <phoenix_firebrd> lordievader: enjoy, me off to bed, see you later
[17:50] <lordievader> phoenix_firebrd: Sleep well.
[17:50] <phoenix_firebrd> lordievader: you too
[17:55] <FloodBotK1> !netsplit
[18:46] <Monika> I reinstalled my Kubuntu and now the windows behave weird: They either open on 100% (but are not maximized; I maximize and unmaximize them and then they have the proper size) or they open on 50% and the previously top window takes up the other 50%.
[18:46] <Monika> What can I do to fix this?
[18:49] <Monika> Should I try a different driver? Could that help?
[18:50] <Monika> There are four at additional drivers: Nvidia version 173, version current, version 173-updates, version current-updates
[20:46] <Volksgrenadier> is it possible for me to have Kubuntu on a seperate HDD then my windows HDD
[20:47] <Volksgrenadier> for example my windows HDD is C: I want linux to be on D: I assume that is possible, but everytime I try to install it or boot it I get trouble
[20:51] <Riddell> !testers
[20:51] <Riddell> anyone able to test calligra on 12.04?


[18:37] <pcn> Does anyone here haev much experience with using cobbler to install ubuntu?
[19:19] <pcn> I'm wondering specifically - I've got a test cobbler server running, and I've imported the 14.04 cd image, and I've mirrored the ubuntu repo so I can install with local bandwidth.
[19:20] <pcn> However, The d-i boots and reads its preseed, then it goes and tries to retrieve things like trusty-updates from the copy of the cd image.
[19:21] <pcn> I've got that, but it's in a separate image. I need a way to tell d-i to look for updates, security, etc. in a different repo
[19:42] <pcn> It seem slike d-i wants to see all components in one repo's distribution.  Is there a way to get it to look across repos?


[00:06] <SpamapS> Hmm.. do we need NLS in the wget udeb? that would be another 3k down..
[00:09] <cjwatson> SpamapS: we shouldn't
[00:09] <SpamapS> cjwatson: right, BB doesn't have any either by the looks of it
[00:10] <SpamapS> cjwatson: since I have you here, how do you feel about -Os ? I've never used it.. but it did drop nearly 20kB off the code size (and 10kB off the udeb size) for wget
[00:19] <cjwatson> SpamapS: *shrug*
[00:19] <cjwatson> SpamapS: we use it in a few places in d-i I think
[00:19] <SpamapS> cjwatson: ACK. uploaded a new wget with as many disables and optimizations as I could find in 2 hours.
[00:20] <SpamapS> cjwatson: from 159K to 130K
[00:20] <cjwatson> better than nowt
[00:20] <SpamapS> cjwatson: note that the rebuild just with precise's toolchain raised it from 152K to 159K
[02:46] <slangasek> broder: cool :)
[02:56] <An-iSociaL> whatup! ubuntu is booted with xdesktop on my Motorola Xoom!
[05:32] <pitti> Good morning
[05:32] <TheMuso> Morning pitti.
[05:32] <An-iSociaL> mornin
[06:53]  * SpamapS takes a deep breath and uploads mysql 5.5
[07:50] <broder> bdrung: fyi, it looks like bug #808767 no longer affects the lintian build; i can build 2.5.4 on precise-i386 without error
[08:03] <dholbach> good morning
[09:42] <pitti> hm, today's images grew by 8 MB
[09:42] <sladen> pitti: KDE update last night/
[09:42] <pitti> no, Ubuntu's
[09:42]  * pitti checks
[09:43] <pitti> == Added packages ==
[09:43] <pitti> libicu48 (8.1 MB)
[09:43] <pitti> ah, there we go
[09:43] <pitti> libicu44 still has a few rdepends
[09:43] <pitti> also, it was only 7 MB
[09:44] <pitti> but at least the bulk of it will resolve itself with NBS
[10:19] <micahg> pitti: can I get you do 2 PPA copies for me
[10:19] <pitti> micahg: beer accepted
[10:19] <pitti> micahg: sure, which?
[10:20] <micahg> pitti: ubuntu-mozilla-security, firefox 8.0+build1-0ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS> to ubuntu/primary oneiric (Security) and firefox - 8.0+build1-0ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS> to natty-security
[10:24] <pitti> micahg: done
[10:24] <micahg> pitti: thanks :)
[10:35] <hadess> somebody tell diwic to stop creating surveys for software he doesn't maintain
[11:04] <sladen> pitti: has there been a recent upload to xdg-user-dirs?  bug #893526  has just been filed by a user.  We've seen it before as bug #209513 but what concerns me this time around is wanting to rename ~/./ to ~/Public/  (ie move folders between different levels)
[11:05] <pitti> this question also happens if you change your locale
[11:06] <pitti> sladen: last upload was mid June
[11:12] <cjwatson> pitti: icu> yep, remaining unuploaded piece in main is libreoffice; see last night's conversation ...
[11:13] <pitti> cjwatson: right, seems fine; just wanted to make sure it's not something less transietn
[11:13] <pitti> and yay typing
[12:02] <sladen> pitti: the user claims not to have
[12:04] <pitti> slangasek: is that oneiric or precise? might be a lightdm change
[12:11] <pitti> slangasek, TheMuso: uploaded GTK 3 multiarch-ification, FYI
[12:12] <pitti> TheMuso: so you can probably re-enable it in at-spi again, too
[15:13] <seb128> do we need to file rm bugs for sources that got dropped from debian because they are deprecated and non maintained and buggy?
[15:14] <seb128> or is somebody looking at those and mirroring the action in Ubuntu every now and then? (looking at pessulus in this case)
[15:16] <pitti> occasionally; that's "process-removals"
[15:16] <pitti> seb128: so, no need to file them now
[15:16] <pitti> in fact, I'll take a run through this
[15:16] <seb128> pitti, ok, thanks
[15:20] <pitti> Riddell: libkipi was removed from Debian (debian bug 615579), with "taken over by kdegraphics from kde4"; but we still have rdepends
[15:20] <pitti> Riddell: should we follow suit, or keep the sourrce?
[15:24] <Riddell> pitti: let me investigate
[15:24] <Riddell> upstream aren't entirely consistent there
[15:28] <Riddell> pitti: libkipi has indeed been merged into kdegraphics but now kdegraphics is released as separate split tars so we have libkipi again, so please keep it
[15:28] <pitti> Riddell: ah, ok; so eventually Debian will do the same, I figure
[15:29] <pitti> Riddell: thanks for checking!
[15:29] <Riddell> right
[15:30] <pitti> cjwatson, mterry: I think I fixed the libgail-3-common induced uninstallability now
[15:31] <pitti> on powerpc/armel buildds need to catch up
[15:36] <mterry> pitti, sweet!
[15:37] <pitti> mterry: just in case you look at precise_probs and want to LART me :)
[15:37] <mterry> :)
[15:37] <pitti> in hindsight I should have updated seeds and -meta first, then gtk
[15:59] <Andy80> hi all
[16:01] <Andy80> where can I find informations/tutorials about splitting something in multiple packages? (for example: foo, foo-docs, foo-libs, foo-data ecc....). I've given a look at the official packaging documentation but it looks like this thing is not covered (at least on the doc I was reading it wasn't). Thanks!
[16:31] <SpamapS> Andy80: I'm not sure there are specific guides for that.. but usually you will need to be more explicit with each of the .install/.docs files to specify the package name.. and add sections to the control file for each
[16:32]  * SpamapS changes gears
[16:32] <SpamapS> so, I uploaded a merge of mysql-5.5 from Debian experimental and since it is new to Ubuntu, its in the NEW queue. Does it have to pass a full NEW review or am I just waiting for an AA to ack it?
[16:36] <pitti> SpamapS: as long as it's a sync, we usually just wave it through
[16:36] <pitti> SpamapS: so if it's a merge, an AA will at least have to do some cursory checks
[16:52] <SpamapS> pitti: ACK.. so is there anyone I can poke for an expedite? I need to get the libmysqlclient transition rolling. :-P
[16:52] <pitti> SpamapS: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArchiveAdministration#Archive_days says Riddell is the master of the day, but not sure whether that's still current
[16:53] <Riddell> pitti: actually I'm just doing my first archive duties for many months
[16:53] <Riddell> SpamapS: what needs doing?
[16:54] <pitti> Riddell: ah, still know the knobs? :-)
[16:54] <SpamapS> Riddell: mysql-5.5 .. merge from Debian experimental is in the NEW queue.
[16:54] <SpamapS> Riddell: I would be most overjoyed if you could give it a high priority. Thanks! :)
[16:54] <Riddell> SpamapS: then I'll get to it shortly as I do New processing (unless there's a paticular hurry)
[16:55] <SpamapS> Riddell: next few hours is fine. It will take 2 hours to build, and then I have to start a rather large transition for the new libmysqlclient
[16:56] <Riddell> that'll be fun :)
[16:56] <pitti> SpamapS: ugh, ABI change? happy buildd warming :)
[16:57] <Riddell> SpamapS: you'll probably need to poke me again once it's built then to let the New binaries in
[16:57] <pitti> Riddell: JFYI, I'm currently running process-removals (man, looong backlog), so if you try to run some tools and you don't get a lock, that'd be me
[16:57] <pitti> please poke me if you need it
[16:57] <Riddell> ack
[17:02] <SpamapS> Riddell: will do. :)
[17:02] <SpamapS> pitti: what was fun was convincing MySQL upstream that there actually was an ABI change.. they didn't believe it until we showed them the crashes *of their own client software*
[17:03] <pitti> superm1: ah, I can't push to ~mythbuntu/mythtv/mythtv-fixes -- can you please change ttf-droid to fonts-droid and ttf-liberation to fonts-liberation? (presumably some more fonts, too)
[17:03] <pitti> superm1: they recently got renamed
[17:06] <pitti> cjwatson: argh, sorry -- I removed ttf-farsiweb, saw too late that it is used by d-i; it was renamed to fonts-*
[17:09] <superm1> pitti: can you give me a merge request, i'll sort out the permissions problem later and merge it?
[17:09] <superm1> (assuming you already made changes locally of course)
[17:09] <pitti> superm1: not yet, I just saw that I can't push the branch
[17:09] <pitti> but can do
[17:10] <slangasek> pitti: multiarchification - whee, thanks :)
[17:14] <pitti> superm1: https://code.launchpad.net/~pitti/mythtv/font-rename/+merge/83047
[17:18] <pitti> cjwatson: I pushed the change to bzr, but as I haven't done a d-i upload yet I rather don't try it now without your guidance
[18:10] <bryceh> pitti, have you heard of anyone having troubles building pbuilder images for precise?  I posted my log at #893700.
[18:11] <seb128> bryceh, he left for the day but that doesn't seem really pitti specific
[18:11] <seb128> that maybe something the stable team can help with?
[18:11] <seb128> i.e cjwatson or mterry
[18:11] <bryceh> seb128, ok
[18:12] <mterry> y
[18:12] <mterry> o
[18:12]  * mterry looks at bug
[18:13] <bryceh> heya mterry, I poked around to see if anyone got that same error as I but found nothing; wondering if it's some odd perl conflict
[18:13] <bryceh> or something particular to the pbuilder version I have installed
[18:14] <mterry> bryceh, hm maybe cjwatson would know right away, he did the perl transition
[18:14] <broder> bryceh: debootstrap was having issues with perl
[18:14] <broder> perl-modules in particular
[18:14] <broder> cjwatson fixed it with the most recent debootstrap upload to unstable, if you want to grab that
[18:14] <bryceh> broder, ah that sounds like a plausible suspect
[18:15] <broder> (as i recall, both the old and new versions of perl-modules were still getting published, and debootstrap couldn't handle it)
[18:15] <bryceh> broder, ah
[18:16] <bryceh> hmm, not sure if I can direct pbuilder to pull bits from debian, but sounds like we'll be syncing that in before too long?
[18:16] <broder> bryceh: you use your own debootstrap, not the chroots
[18:17] <broder> so you can just install it on your host machine
[18:17] <broder> err, not host, but ykwim
[18:34] <bryceh> broder, awesome, it built the precise pbuilder image now, thanks!
[18:34] <broder> np :)
[18:37] <SpamapS> Crap.. mysql 5.5 FTBFS on armel
[18:37] <SpamapS> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/85702840/buildlog_ubuntu-precise-armel.mysql-5.5_5.5.17-4ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[18:38] <SpamapS> /build/buildd/mysql-5.5-5.5.17/sql-common/client_plugin.c:247:5: error: incompatible type for argument 5 of 'add_plugin'
[18:38] <SpamapS> Guessing this is a common failure
[18:52] <Sarvatt> SpamapS: http://bugs.mysql.com/bug.php?id=62769
[18:53] <SpamapS> Sarvatt: nice.. thanks!
[18:57] <jono> hey all
[18:57] <jono> is Precise reasonably stable at the moment?
[18:57] <jono> I am thinking of upgrading
[19:04]  * SpamapS dist-upgraded a week ago but has yet to reboot
[19:18] <bryceh> jono, I've just upgraded one system and fresh-installed 3 others
[19:19] <bryceh> jono, aside from a few assorted glitches (that I think you'd be unlikely to see) it went smoothly
[19:25] <jono> thanks bryceh
[19:51] <Thetawaves> WW: Explicitly asked to ignore failures (probably not good)
[19:51] <Thetawaves> II: New modules (you've been busy, wipe the poop off your nose)
[20:22] <cjwatson> pitti: fonts-farsiweb> that's fine, thanks - no urgency on an upload, it can go into the next one that's needed for some other reason.  I've committed the corresponding seed change too
[20:23] <cjwatson> bryceh: oh, yeah, I meant to sync debootstrap from unstable today for that but forgot (something to do with being on holiday maybe ;-) ).  Synced now
[20:27] <bryceh> cjwatson, thanks.  Should the fix be sru'd, for folks that are doing pbuilder of precise on stable series?
[20:27] <bryceh> cjwatson, if you can point me at the appropriate patch I can do the sru grunt work on it.
[20:28] <cjwatson> bryceh: I commented on the bug.  I don't think it will get through the SRU process before the archive is changed such that it goes away on its own
[20:28] <bryceh> cjwatson, ah ok
[20:28] <cjwatson> bryceh: http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=d-i/debootstrap.git;a=commitdiff;h=0fbf86aa8fbcd06cb62fddddcfd4605fef2ee8b2 if you want, though
[20:29] <cjwatson> I could put it in -backports, that would be quicker
[20:29] <cjwatson> (after this sync publishes)
[20:29] <bryceh> cjwatson, ah that's not a bad idea
[20:33] <bryceh> cjwatson, I'll wontfix the natty/oneiric tasks unless you think there's any chance that this could recur such as when q-series opens?
[20:36] <cjwatson> at the very least it will recur at each perl transition
[20:41] <broder> cjwatson: :-/ i recognize that we can move packages faster through -backports, but i'm not super thrilled about using backports for bugfixes
[20:43] <jtaylor> has someone looked at backport sphinx 1.07?
[20:44] <broder> jtaylor: bug #?
[20:44] <jtaylor> none yet
[20:44] <broder> then probably not :-P
[20:44] <jtaylor> I'm asking first, not that I do duplicate work
[20:45] <Laney> everything ought to be on bugs
[20:45] <jtaylor> would be quite useful for some python pacakges using dh_sphinxdoc
[20:45] <broder> searching the ubp project, i see bug #256017 and bug #291825, both of which should be killed off at this point anyway
[20:46] <broder> but nothing recent
[20:46] <jtaylor> k thx
[20:47] <broder> jtaylor: i'd encourage you to play with requestbackport in ubuntu-dev-tools, either from precise or from ppa:udt-developers/daily
[20:48] <tumbleweed> broder: oh, I never added existing backport searching to requestbackport
[20:48] <broder> tumbleweed: yeah, but i'm slowly ramping up to encouraging people to always using it for opening new bugs anyway
[20:48] <cjwatson> broder: Well, it's not so much that as that historically I've kept debootstrap up to date in -backports anyway because lots of people want the new scripts symlink
[20:49] <broder> cjwatson: i thought we sru'd those...
[20:49] <cjwatson> Somebody started SRUing them without asking me first
[20:49] <cjwatson> I'd already been backporting them for some time before that
[20:49] <Laney> i only see it in updates for lucid
[20:50] <broder> heh, ok. i have no problem if there's precedent
[20:50] <cjwatson> So basically it's a mess
[20:50] <cjwatson> Alternatively somebody could upload the relevant bits of KDE to make perlkde buildable and then the problem will go away for now :-)
[20:51] <cjwatson> In principle perl transitions should be completeable in about two or three days; less if we had good enough tools to stage them somewhere
[20:51] <Laney> It does seem more appropriate to cherry-pick that fix for SRU, but I recognise that it may be more work than it's worth. So I'm happy with carrying on keeping debootstrap more-or-less up to date in backports..
[20:52] <Riddell> I am in the proccess of merging and uploading large parts of KDE so it should happen soon
[20:53] <cjwatson> it's just smokekde and okular I think, if I can convince you to prioritise :-)
[20:53] <Riddell> I'll see what I can do
[20:54] <cjwatson> cool
[21:01] <TheMuso> pitti: Thanks./
[21:09] <jtaylor> cjwatson: you merged svn last, are you considering fixing bug 881862 in oneiric?
[21:09] <jtaylor> it would be shame when the good triaging of the reporter goes to waste
[21:10] <jtaylor> the issue should be fixed in precise with the merge
[21:42] <RainCT> pitti: Hey. Any idea why the Traceback of bug #760111 & dupes show "/home/username" (ie. with "username", literally) as the path?
[21:57] <seb128> RainCT, some users consider their login name to be private info, apport replace it for privacy reasons
[21:57] <RainCT> seb128: it's still in the bug titles, though
[21:57] <seb128> "bug" ;-)
[21:57] <seb128> the intend is to hide it
[21:58] <seb128> the title case was not considered I guess
[21:58] <RainCT> seb128: Okay, thanks for the info. So it's not XDG_HOME being messed up or something :P
[21:58] <seb128> no it's not ;-)
[21:59] <seb128> "    def anonymize(self):
[21:59] <seb128>         '''Remove user identifying strings from the report.
[21:59] <seb128>         This particularly removes the user name, host name, and IPs
[21:59] <seb128>         from attributes which contain data read from the environment, and
[21:59] <seb128>         removes the ProcCwd attribute completely.
[21:59] <seb128>         '''
[21:59] <seb128> "
[21:59] <seb128> RainCT, ^ that's what apport is doing basically (that's from report.py in the apport source code)
[22:30] <bdrung> broder: k, synced
[23:16] <szymon_g> hi
[23:18] <szymon_g> hm... why does ubuntu have 2 installation-cd: "desktop" and alternate? wouldn't it be easier to keep it on one (since space isn't that big problem- it will be to big for cd anyway...)?
[23:26] <penguin42> szymon_g: Don't forget the desktop is also a live cd
[23:27] <RAOF> szymon_g: You don't need both the alternate and desktop installers; they're two different ways to arrive at the same installed system.
[23:29] <szymon_g> penguin42, yes, i know. i wonder- why they are seperated: on the start of system /when you choose like "check cd for defects" "check memory" etc etc/ someone could choose: either livecd /and maybe simple install from it/ or "advanced" way- i.e. textual installer, with lvm/raid etc
[23:30] <szymon_g> so it would be easier for some people /like me: no need to get 2 images: livecd for checking how unity has been changed + alternate for installing on lvm/raid/
[23:30] <TheMuso> szymon_g: That used to be available in the DVD version.
[23:30] <szymon_g> "used to be" :?
[23:30] <szymon_g> was dvd ceased?
[23:30] <TheMuso> As of oneiric, I believe the DVD version in that form is no longer available.
[23:30] <RAOF> They're separated because you can't fit both of them on the same CD.
[23:31] <TheMuso> There is still a DVD version, but its a live system only, and much smaller.
[23:31] <szymon_g> RAOF, but the next ubuntu wont be on CD either
[23:31] <RAOF> It will be if it fits :)
[23:31] <szymon_g> and textual installer + lvm/raid support wont occupy much space
[23:32] <TheMuso> Yes it will actually, you need all the debs of the system to be installed.
[23:32] <szymon_g> RAOF, i heard rumors that it will be approx 750mb o.O
[23:32] <RAOF> Yes, it will.  it will occupy 700 MB of space. :)
[23:32] <RAOF> There is essentially nothing shared between the livecd and the alternate installer.
[23:33] <szymon_g> so- are there any chances to introduce lvm/raid configuration in livecd installer?
[23:33] <RAOF> Of course.
[23:33] <RAOF> It's a long-standing feature request.
[23:33] <TheMuso> But not a priority afaik.
[23:33] <RAOF> I don't think that anyone's currently working on it, but if you wanted to I don't know of any reason why good patches wouldn't be accepted.
[23:34] <szymon_g> RAOF, i'm just asking. my only programs were "hello world" in C. the most beautiful 32 lines of code you could ever see
[23:34] <szymon_g> ;)
[23:35]  * Frostbite pats szymon_g
[23:35] <szymon_g> :) btw, is anyone working on delta-deb?
[23:35] <szymon_g> it's huge bandwith saving /my record is 96% of savings/