[00:13] <nixternal> anyone want to work for Microsoft? I interviewed with them today and they are looking for more open source people (community leaders and developers)...they are a great company!
[00:15] <seele> nixternal: seriously?
[00:15] <seele> nixternal: i would take an internship with them
[00:15] <nixternal> ya, they just called me with their first offer to hire me
[00:15] <nixternal> i just interviewed with them this morning
[00:16] <seele> wow, that is really quick turn around
[00:16] <seele> but seriously, if they are looking for a research intern in open source.. i would do it
[00:16] <nixternal> an interview that came about due to an argument the guy who interviewed me and I had a couple of weeks ago :p
[00:16] <nixternal> I will pass on that info :)
[00:16] <seele> haha sweet, and congratulations by the way
[00:16] <seele> where will you be moving to?
[00:16] <nixternal> you know though, you can't do nothing for KDE or Ubuntu, or any other open source project right?
[00:17] <seele> you mean as an intern?
[00:17] <nixternal> if I were to take it, right here...they have a nice big campus 15 minutes from my house that has the midwest division of engineers
[00:17] <seele> wow, you can't beat 15 minutes to work
[00:17] <nixternal> seele: as anything...the NDA you sign prohibits you from working in the open source community unless directed to do so by them, and it also prohibits you from working in an open source community for up to 2 years after leaving
[00:18] <seele> nixternal: interesting. i have a colleague/friend who interned at MS research and she didnt have to stop working on her open source project
[00:18] <nixternal> left turn, right turn, left turn, right turn...there :)
[00:18] <nixternal> maybe interns don't get hit then
[00:18] <seele> well if the case, then sign me up
[00:19] <nixternal> I will ask about it...I really don't want to work for them...could you imagine the community backlash :)
[00:19] <seele> but i wouldnt work for microsoft if they disallowed me to work in floss 2 years after leaving.. that's rediculous
[00:19] <nixternal> they want to make sure you forget their code I guess
[00:20] <seele> dear god Riddell.. showing off a bit of chest in those pictures?
[00:20] <seele> yikes.. there;s some leg too
[00:20]  * seele removes all her flickr feeds
[00:20] <nixternal> seele: nhandler might know, he worked (intern I am guessing) last year
[00:20] <seele> nixternal: well he is still working in ubuntu so i guess it is safe :)
[00:20] <nixternal> yup
[00:21] <nixternal> as a matter of fact, he still has the MS laptop don't you nhandler? :p
[00:21] <seele> hah
[00:21] <nixternal> MS doesn't offer that much money initially either...
[00:21] <seele> it's bugged!
[00:21] <nhandler> nixternal: Yep
[00:22] <nhandler> Has a nice "MS Asset" on the bottom
[00:22] <nixternal> nhandler: what was the extent of the NDA you signed?
[00:22] <nixternal> the NDA I was showed would be about the size of the agreement one would sign if they joined Metallica
[00:22] <nixternal> first line states, "Please have your lawyer review this with you."
[00:22] <nhandler> nixternal: It wasn't much. It was mainly to keep me from revealing any of the personal/private files I might come across than to keep me from talking about what I was working on
[00:23] <nixternal> ya, it is funny, the position is for an open source product/project/community manager position...OPEN SOURCE, yet the NDA says I am not allowed to publically state the work I am involved in w/o approval
[00:23] <nixternal> haha
[00:24] <nhandler> Does it only say you cannot discuss it? Does it prohibit you from releasing the open source code to other people?
[00:25] <nixternal> I haven't read it all the way through, and won't get the chance to unless I accept the position
[00:25] <nixternal> it was funny, I was actually a bit of an asshole in the interview, calling them on their BS, and their answer was always, "We aren't allowed to talk about that just yet"
[00:26] <nixternal> but I do know the position absolutely prohibits me from furthering open source projects not controlled by MS
[00:26]  * nhandler would never be able to stand a job like that
[00:26] <nixternal> imagine though, if you worked for MS, people in the open source world aren't going to trust you working on their projects anyways
[00:27]  * kb9vqf thinks Microsofts new strategy for killing FOSS is actually kind of funny
[00:27] <nixternal> ya, they are trying to hire FOSS people now
[00:28] <nixternal> I didn't send them a resume or anything....the guy ran into me, or vice-versa at a recent business thing at the local college
[00:28] <nixternal> then he reviewed my website, blog, LP and all of that...he had a list of commits I had since like 2000
[00:28] <nixternal> I was like, "Damn, I don't even remember that stuff"
[00:29]  * rickspencer3 *cough cough*
[00:29] <kb9vqf> They were probably just making sure they were going to try to buy out someone important enough :wink:
[00:30] <nixternal> rickspencer3: you want to work for MS? I can hook you up :p
[00:30] <rickspencer3> uh ... I worked there for almost 10 years
[00:30] <nixternal> it was actually a very entertaining experience
[00:30]  * rickspencer3 ducks
[00:30] <rickspencer3> I quit so I could work in open source
[00:30] <nixternal> rickspencer3: haha, I contracted for them for 2, so I know
[00:30]  * kb9vqf throws an hard CD case of NT server at rickspencer3
[00:30] <rickspencer3> they weren't real happy about that
[00:31] <nixternal> why are their NDAs like freaking major league baseball contracts?
[00:31] <nixternal> that thing is insane
[00:31] <rickspencer3> because they fundamentally don't get it
[00:31] <rickspencer3> they think everyone is driven by the same motivations in life that they are
[00:32] <nixternal> I did give them the response I was hoping to give, when asked, "What do you expect out of this interview?" I responded with "Some free stuff of course, and how about $1500 to purchase a new PC?" :)
[00:32] <rickspencer3> lol
[00:32] <kb9vqf> :)
[00:32] <rickspencer3> I think they're looking for people to help them compete with *buntu, actually
[00:33] <seele> nixternal: i dont care. i dont plan on ever working for microsoft. but an internship with them is gold on my c.v.
[00:33] <seele> 3 months of sin in my life will open opportunities to do more good later on
[00:33] <rickspencer3> seele: are you serious?
[00:33] <nixternal> rickspencer3: Red Hat in the server market, but they have Novell, so now they stated they want to help *mold* the open source desktop market
[00:33] <rickspencer3> like doing usability?
[00:33] <seele> rickspencer3: research, not practicum
[00:34] <nixternal> hahaha, you go into microsoft for usability, but leave with disability
[00:34] <seele> rickspencer3: and yes i am serious that i would go to microsoft for 3 months for a research interhsip
[00:34] <rickspencer3> with MS research? one of my best friends work in the social computing wing of MS research
[00:34] <seele> i would prefer IBM or Nokia, but a poor PhD student can't be picky :)
[00:34] <rickspencer3> he basically invented twitter like 2 years before twitter, but no one took it seriously
[00:34] <seele> rickspencer3: seriously? what is his name?
[00:34] <rickspencer3> Scott Counts
[00:34]  * seele wonders if paula bach worked with him
[00:35] <rickspencer3> I dunno
[00:35] <seele> hmm.. i'll have to ask her about him tomorrow
[00:35] <rickspencer3> He's like one of my closest buds, actually
[00:35] <rickspencer3> though don't see him much now that they have baby #2 :)
[00:35] <seele> hmm.. so how much wine do i have to send you to get introduced? :)
[00:35] <rickspencer3> I would do that for you in a heart beat
[00:35] <rickspencer3> no problems
[00:35] <nixternal> you know there was a wordpress theme when wordpress came out that provided the same functionality as twitter web...I accidentally came upon it last night, from like 2005 or earlier
[00:35] <nixternal> think it was wordpress
[00:35] <rickspencer3> I'll call him right now if you want :)
[00:35] <nixternal> maybe one of the Nukes
[00:36] <seele> rickspencer3: wow, seriously though. it would be greatly appreciated
[00:36] <seele> (the intro, not the phone call asap ;)
[00:36] <rickspencer3> let me msg you so we can chat
[00:36] <seele> cool
[01:17] <DreadKnight> with latest intel video drivers, blender acts up like shit again, no menus and so on T_T
[01:18] <DreadKnight> revert back to older version?
[01:18] <DreadKnight> it was more than enough that jaunty sucks hard with intel video cards, hope karmic won't be fail like that as well
[01:21] <harolddong> if I wanted to backup and delete my .kde folder to start fresh but didnt want to lost my kopete/kontact settings, how would I go about doing that?  What would I NOT want to delete?
[01:24] <JontheEchidna> harolddong: ~/.kde/share/config/kopeterc and ~/.kde/share/apps/kopete/
[01:24] <JontheEchidna> for kopete anyway
[01:25] <JontheEchidna> kontact is a bit trickier since it's several apps
[01:25] <JontheEchidna> similar pattern for kmail, kaddressbook, etc
[01:25] <harolddong> but what kontact and all of its related apps? would I just looks the same files for kmail, akregator, kaddressbook, etc?
[01:25] <harolddong> yeah
[01:26] <harolddong> okay I'll give it a shot thanks
[01:26] <JontheEchidna> yw
[01:30] <_Groo_> hi/2 all
[01:46] <harolddong> how would I backup the tags?  where they stored?
[01:47] <JontheEchidna> tags?
[01:48] <harolddong> nepomuk tags.... is it just .kde/share/apps/nepomuk?
[01:50] <_Groo_> harolddong: if im not mistaken they are stored in nepomuk mysql engine
[01:51] <JontheEchidna> nepomuk doesn't use mysql
[01:51] <JontheEchidna> but it does look like that's the correct dir
[01:52] <JontheEchidna> (it uses either redland or sesame2 as of KDE 4.2)
[01:54] <harolddong> so if I just backup the folder and any rc files it should work fine when I restore?
[01:54] <JontheEchidna> yup
[01:54] <JontheEchidna> you might wanna keep a copy of the whole thing in case
[01:54] <harolddong> yeah I plan to
[01:54] <harolddong> thanks
[01:59] <_Groo_> JontheEchidna: ah, i was confusing it... you are right...
[01:59] <JontheEchidna> it's confusing enough that everything uses a different DB schema
[01:59] <JontheEchidna> akonadi uses mysql
[01:59] <JontheEchidna> amarok uses mysqle
[02:00] <JontheEchidna> nepomuk can use 3 DBs now
[02:00] <_Groo_> JontheEchidna: btw kde 4.2 , kde 4.3 nepomuk with strigi is broken by default.. you have to symlink libjvm.so to a working jdk
[02:00] <_Groo_> or you wont have a fast enough backend, aka sesame2
[02:15] <_Groo_> cant wait for amarok master to open up :)
[03:29]  * ScottK notes http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2009/06/building-brand-together.html and hopes some Kubuntu person will take that ball and run with it.
[03:36] <Hobbsee> interesting!
[06:57]  * seele yawns
[06:58] <seele> ugh.. 2am?
[08:38] <Riddell> seele: that's for my people behind kde interview, I was told I needed something for the ladies
[10:00] <apachelogger> lex79: what is the news on fotowall?
[13:06] <Sime> Riddell: stable SIP & PyQt4 releases are out, BTW.
[14:00] <Sime> is karmic not yet on KDE 4.3 (beta)?
[14:12] <cbr> it is
[15:10] <Sime> cbr: I see it now on the commit list, thanks.
[15:36] <Riddell> Sime: karmic is generally but not kdebindings yet, good about sip and pyqt we'll get cracking on those
[15:37] <Sime> Riddell: I'm trying to figure out polkitqt with Python, and wondered if it would be easy to test on karmic in a virtualbox.
[15:38] <Riddell> should be
[15:56] <DreadKnight> updated intel video drivers recently and blender 2.49 started acting up again....can someone restore the drivers to an older commit?
[15:57] <Riddell> we're not X I'm afraid, we are but humble KDE packagers
[15:58] <DreadKnight> mhm, i asked in ubuntu devel as well
[15:58] <DreadKnight> ubuntu keeps shitting on it's intel users ffs
[16:01] <DreadKnight> man, i was trying out an opensuse appliance from the web browser... bumped into a virtual keyboard plasmoid.. i was so happy..
[16:01] <DreadKnight> until i've seen that it loses focus on the field/application when you wanna type in something *sigh*
[16:02] <DreadKnight> useless
[16:08] <Quintasan> plasmate?
[16:09] <DreadKnight> hmm i think so
[16:09] <Quintasan> yup
[16:09] <Quintasan> it loses focus :D
[16:09] <DreadKnight> xD
[16:09] <DreadKnight> too bad, it was looking awesome
[16:09] <Quintasan> seriously, I will poke the dev
[16:10] <DreadKnight> poke him, linux so sucks with tablet pc's
[16:10] <DreadKnight> linux sucks in most areas actually
[16:10] <DreadKnight> oh well
[16:10] <Quintasan> I have a revu-ready package but I didn't upload since I haven't tested it yet, and it's so useless
[16:10] <DreadKnight> revu?
[16:10] <Quintasan> yup, I wanted it to be included :P
[16:11] <DreadKnight> oh i see
[16:11] <Quintasan> but users would be like "o lol why I can't type"
[16:11] <DreadKnight> no point in that
[16:11] <DreadKnight> i'm trying to poke dragonplayer devs for quite a long time now
[16:11] <Quintasan> LOL
[16:12] <Quintasan> http://kde-look.org/content/show.php/Plasmaboard?content=101822
[16:12] <Quintasan> check comments
[16:12] <DreadKnight> because that shit application drags kde down, in kde 4.3 even gwenview is a way better video player
[16:12] <DreadKnight> i see
[16:13] <Quintasan> oh well, it doesn't work even with putting it on panel
[16:14] <DreadKnight> true, i tested it on the panel
[16:14] <Quintasan> hmm, check changelog
[16:14] <DreadKnight> i checked
[16:14] <Quintasan> argh
[16:14] <Quintasan> patch for 4.2.4
[16:15] <Quintasan> and I'm running 4.3 beta
[16:15] <DreadKnight> me too
[16:15] <valgaav_> smplayer should be the default  :)
[16:15] <DreadKnight> i don't like smplayer
[16:15] <Quintasan> valgaav++
[16:15] <valgaav_> it's the best nix video player just like amarok is the best audio player :)
[16:15] <DreadKnight> i think vlc should be the default, it's popular, has features and it's cross platform already, best video player
[16:16] <valgaav_> well new vlc GUI still would need some love from usability specialist
[16:16] <DreadKnight> dragonplayer is so unmaintained and the lamest player of them all, i like simplicity but it's epically buggy.. and lacks subtitles
[16:16] <valgaav_> it's better then the old wxwidget one
[16:16] <valgaav_> but still IMHO not htere
[16:17] <DreadKnight> well, vlc gui is OK compared to dragon player, which has a shitty volume control widget.. and controls on the upper part by default
[16:17] <DreadKnight> (i know i can drag those, but would be cooler by default on bottom)
[16:18] <DreadKnight> i think i need to start blogging and flame the crap out of open source, mainly kde and them gnome, along with mockups
[16:18] <valgaav_> I actually didn't play much with Dragonplayer since it even could't display ass/ssa subs styles
[16:19] <DreadKnight> it can't display any kind of subs as far as i know
[16:19] <valgaav_> DreadKnight: linuxhater already did that
[16:19] <DreadKnight> valgaav_: i know, but that guy is lame, lacks mockups and he hates this shit
[16:19] <DreadKnight> i'll do things in a more productive style
[16:20]  * ScottK wonders what any of this has to do with Kubuntu development?
[16:21] <Riddell> random chat in #kubuntu-offtopic please
[16:22] <DreadKnight> well, kubuntu includes kde at least :P so not that offtopic
[16:22] <DreadKnight> ok.. whatever
[16:35] <apachelogger> Quintasan: that plasmoid really should let kvkbd do all the work
[16:36] <Quintasan> apachelogger: I think the guy will be shocked by this fact :P
[16:36] <Quintasan> s/the/this
[16:36] <DreadKnight> plasmoids make more sense than some of the applications
[16:36] <apachelogger> well, obviously :P
[16:36] <Nightrose> *sob* I get thrown out of kde lately at least once a day after a window pops up saying "could not start ksmserver. please check your installation."
[16:37] <Nightrose> any ideas what's wrong?
[16:37] <apachelogger> plasmoids should be ways of visiualization
[16:37] <Nightrose> it seems to happen pretty randomly
[16:37] <apachelogger> meaning there should be a common lib for an app and a plasmoid
[16:37] <DreadKnight> apachelogger: i agree
[16:37]  * Nightrose just lost work because of that again :(
[16:37] <apachelogger> and if there is not and the plasmoid is just reimplementing the app it is rather wasteful
[16:37] <DreadKnight> Nightrose: happened to a buddy as well
[16:37] <apachelogger> same applies for apps reimplementing plasmoids though
[16:38] <apachelogger> Nightrose: upstream screwup it seems
[16:38] <DreadKnight> apachelogger: with that ideology we could kill gnome/gtk devs as well :D
[16:38] <apachelogger> there is a bug report somewhere
[16:38] <apachelogger> it is 100% reproducable with 4.2.4 +  sudo kate
[16:38] <apachelogger> rgreening sez it works in 4.3 though
[16:38] <Nightrose> ok looking for the report
[16:38] <Nightrose> thx
[16:39] <Nightrose> this is pretty nasty tbh
[16:39] <apachelogger> DreadKnight: well, TBH the main reason why gnome was around has been resolved, so ....
[16:39] <apachelogger> the we-have-a-different-attitude is the only thing left that keeps gnome from imploding :P
[16:40] <DreadKnight> i hope google will just stop throwing money at gnome gsoc projects and fire the ex-mozilla guy making chrome with gtk for linux >_<
[16:40] <apachelogger> they should just have made their own toolkit anyway
[16:41] <apachelogger> would be way easier than going half-way into that direction and the other half into having gtk do the work on linux
[16:41] <DreadKnight> i like the croll bar google uses on wave and picasa, kicks ass
[16:41] <DreadKnight> if they would have used qt... release 0.1 for all OS's.. oh well
[16:43] <apachelogger> well, google isn't much of a gpl fan :P
[16:44] <DreadKnight> scroll*
[16:44] <DreadKnight> well, google wave is going to be one of the best things on the internet soon.. and it's open source
[16:45] <emonkey> google do not want to use an toolkit in future they want to do everything in a browser ... IMO.
[16:45] <DreadKnight> it was a gtk vs qt issue
[16:46] <DreadKnight> they picked the wrong toolkit
[16:46] <emonkey> But I think we're a bit OT here ...
[16:46] <DreadKnight> y
[16:46] <apachelogger> DreadKnight: it's not about open source, it is about what kind of open source
[16:46] <apachelogger> in general google does tend towards more restrictive
[16:47] <apachelogger> which is one argument pro gtk
[16:47] <apachelogger> also the ex-mozilla guy knows his way through that
[16:47] <apachelogger> so that is another pro
[16:47] <DreadKnight> yeah, they shouldn't have hired him for the job
[16:47] <apachelogger> well
[16:47] <apachelogger> why not? :P
[16:47] <emonkey> since qt is lgpl that shouldn't be a problem nor?
[16:47] <apachelogger> emonkey: it wasn't at the time
[16:47] <DreadKnight> gnome/gtk needs to die already :P
[16:48] <emonkey> i see
[16:48] <nixternal> are we talking about chromium? :)
[16:48] <DreadKnight> yeah
[16:48] <apachelogger> emonkey: the thing is, AFAIK they have a pretty much own toolkit for windows anyway
[16:48] <emonkey> competition is good so gtk/gnome is good
[16:48] <DreadKnight> gtk/gnome is not good
[16:48] <apachelogger> they should just have designed that crossOS to begin with and all would be a lot better :P
[16:48] <nixternal> one of the chromium developers knows they picked the wrong toolkit, and because of the toolkit they chose, he backlashed against the open source community
[16:49] <emonkey> apachelogger: could be yes
[16:49] <DreadKnight> as long as there are many average toolkits, only confuses people trying to adopt linux, like developers and users alike
[16:49] <DreadKnight> we don't need n toolkits and n DE's, that freedom of choice is retarded, we need one great alternative to closes source / commercial operating systems and software
[16:50] <apachelogger> it's about what the market needs though :P
[16:50] <DreadKnight> gnome 3 is incredibly epic fail in design atm
[16:50] <emonkey> matter of taste
[16:50] <DreadKnight> no matter of taste!
[16:51] <DreadKnight> KDE allows for customization, it's like a toolkit to build your own 'workflow'
[16:51] <apachelogger> right, it's a matter of requirements
[16:51] <valgaav_> I agree on that ... competition is good but we already have mac and windows to compete ... then again  guess it's offtopic in this chanel
[16:51] <DreadKnight> gnome 3 is just stiff and stupid
[16:51] <DreadKnight> yes! compete with mac and windows; linux desktop share is a fucking joke
[16:51] <Riddell> !language
[16:51] <Riddell> ooh, it worked
[16:51] <DreadKnight> :)
[16:52] <apachelogger> Riddell: must be the first time ever ;-)
[16:53] <valgaav_> btw something more on topic ... what's the situation with OOo and kde4 integration ... any hopes for karmic ?
[16:54] <DreadKnight> O_o
[16:55] <Riddell> valgaav_: we're hopeful, shtylman_ is working on the code and yuriy is working on the icons
[16:55] <DreadKnight> firefox could use an integration plugin as well, since konqueror is so lame
[16:55] <Sput> oooh
[16:55] <Mamarok> DreadKnight: can't you do something else than just bashing around?
[16:55] <DreadKnight> if kubuntu has open office and not koffice, it should have pidgin and firefox as well
[16:55] <Sput> Riddell: is that kde4 integration gonna be pushed upstream, or is is kubuntu-specific?
[16:56] <Riddell> Sput: of course it will
[16:56] <DreadKnight> Mamarok: i am doing stuff
[16:56] <Sput> cool
[16:56] <Riddell> there's no way we're going to maintain part of openoffice on our own
[16:56] <Sput> I was already giving up hope for ooo to gain kde4 integration :)
[16:56] <valgaav_> that's great :)
[16:57] <Riddell> Mamarok++
[16:58] <Mamarok> Riddell: yaw :)
[17:09] <ScottK> DreadKnight: We're looking into shipping arora as our default browser for Karmic if it gets some needed improvements.
[17:11] <DreadKnight> ScottK: great, too bad rekonq dude likes to duplicate effort and as far as i know, going for kde4 integration as well ...
[17:12] <DreadKnight> ScottK let me know if you guys need mockups or graphic design elements (icons?)
[17:12] <ScottK> DreadKnight: It's free software.  If people want to scratch an itch in a certain way, I don't think we should complain about it.
[17:12] <ScottK> I'm not sure what it was that was needed.  It's in a spec somewhere.
[17:13] <DreadKnight> i know, but useless code duplication is not that cool heh
[17:16] <ScottK> Personally, I think a certain amount of diversity in the free software ecosystem is a good and healthy thing.
[17:18] <DreadKnight> maybe with a higher market share for the desktop :D
[17:19] <nixternal> what I find interesting is we bicker about this stuff quite a bit, and everyone is like "Look and Mac and Windows" in terms of competing. I don't care what side of the fence you are on, code is duplicated everywhere, wheels are constantly reinvented...go through a site like download.com and find a music app, there are probably about 100x more than what we have
[17:20] <nixternal> why is this whole "reinventing the wheel" so prevelant in the open source world? why do people keep acting like it is a bad thing all of the time? why do people keep thinking it happens here only?
[17:20] <nixternal> I think our time could be better spent working than arguing, as there is no way to have just 1 choice in software, impossible. Nobody has it and nobody will
[17:21] <DreadKnight> because here it's daunting! linux has small market share for the desktop
[17:21] <DreadKnight> you can have one choice of software, as long you can customize it like crap (so that means better qt with time)
[17:21] <nixternal> all we need is that 5% to be the winner, because we will never, mark my word, NEVER, fix bug #1
[17:22] <ScottK> I think it will fix itself in the long run.
[17:22] <DreadKnight> for fixing bug number 1, some choice within foss world must die imho :D
[17:22] <ScottK> If you truly believe that FOSS software development works better than proprietary development, then you just need patience.
[17:22] <DreadKnight> more united people = better stuff
[17:22] <nixternal> will never happen
[17:23] <ScottK> DreadKnight: Impossible to force.  When something is enough a better idea, it'll happen naturally.
[17:23] <nixternal> I love the fact there are like 5 plan9 WMs right now :)
[17:23] <DreadKnight> ScottK i agree
[17:23] <ScottK> Don't sweat it.  It'll come in time.
[17:23] <nixternal> more united people != better stuff
[17:23] <DreadKnight> the more awesome kde is, the more people will attract .. and word of mouth :)
[17:24] <DreadKnight> nixternal: depends on leadership and management!
[17:24] <nixternal> point made, look at the auto manufacturers, look at Microsoft
[17:24] <DreadKnight> and vision/goals
[17:24] <rickspencer3> how are people reacting to Kubuntu Jaunty?
[17:24] <rickspencer3> do they love it?
[17:24] <nixternal> rickspencer3: not as bad as Intrepid :)
[17:24] <nixternal> rickspencer3: so far I have read great reviews of it
[17:24] <DreadKnight> kubuntu website is ambigue.. not even telling what the heck is kubuntu
[17:24] <rickspencer3> heh
[17:24] <rickspencer3> neversfelde: good
[17:24] <rickspencer3> oops, tab completion error
[17:24] <nixternal> hehe
[17:24] <DreadKnight> kubuntu is so dropping down in popularity
[17:24] <rickspencer3> nixternal: good to hear :)
[17:24] <ScottK> A fair amount of hate and discontent about kpackagekit and the NM applet.
[17:24] <ScottK> Generally good though.
[17:25] <nixternal> right, what ScottK said, other than those 2
[17:25] <rickspencer3> I suppose there's always something that's not as good as the other parts of a system
[17:25] <nixternal> though a couple of the reviews were on wired desktops, so we didn't get smashed for NM :)
[17:25] <rickspencer3> heh
[17:25] <DreadKnight> i like kpackagekit but.. no one click install atm in kubuntu, software sources not implemented nicely in kpackagekit and no nice category view
[17:25] <nixternal> I like apt-get :p
[17:25] <DreadKnight> apt-get is for geeks, scares market share
[17:25] <rickspencer3> moving to kpackagekit was a bold move
[17:26] <rickspencer3> I think it will pay off in time
[17:26] <DreadKnight> i like kpackagekit, adept was fugly
[17:26] <nixternal> I find it odd that I enjoy KDE and GNOME as much as I do, especially when I feel that GUIs get in the way
[17:26] <DreadKnight> yes, it will pay off
[17:26] <rickspencer3> ScottK: any progress on the netbook version?
[17:26] <ScottK> rickspencer3: I think we need to be careful as we move forward and KDE moves up out of the KDE 4 transition not to have more stuff like that.
[17:26] <neversfelde> people like jaunty more than intrepid, many users, who switched to gnome are returning. Well, they do not like kpackagekit and nm, but they see, that there was a need to use something new
[17:26] <neversfelde> thats good :)
[17:26] <ScottK> rickspencer3: Yes.  We have a spec now and Tonio is working on some stuff.
[17:26] <rickspencer3> ScottK - coool
[17:26] <DreadKnight> with time kde4 and little will hopefully 'settle down'
[17:26] <ScottK> rickspencer3: Also looks like upstream is making good progress on the netbook shell.
[17:27] <rickspencer3> sweet
[17:27] <DreadKnight> and linux* argh
[17:27]  * nixternal needs a job, a netbook, and some hack time on a Kubuntu Netbook Remix :)
[17:27] <rickspencer3> nixternal: I haven't forgotten about you
[17:27] <rickspencer3> and your netbook
[17:27] <nixternal> hehe
[17:27] <rickspencer3> (well actually, I did during UDS unfortunately :( )
[17:28] <ScottK> rickspencer3: http://www.notmart.org/index.php/Software/Plasmanetbook_breaths
[17:28] <nixternal> I tried to win a netbook at a recent Novell event, but I never get that lucky :)
[17:28] <ScottK> nixternal: Not a remix, the goal is an actual Kubuntu Netbook Edition.
[17:28] <nixternal> I want to be like the guy at Ohio Linux Fest that won that monster openSUSE laptop, and then walked right over to the Ubuntu booth to grab a CD :)
[17:28] <rickspencer3> hehe!
[17:28] <nixternal> ScottK: right, I just like the word Remix for some strange reason
[17:28] <DreadKnight> lol
[17:29] <nixternal> jono, jorge, and I actually felt bad for zonker that day
[17:30] <ScottK> But not so bad you actually installed opensuse?
[17:30] <nixternal> I am running openSUSE now
[17:31] <nixternal> I like to test drive all of the KDE implementations out there
[17:31] <nixternal> I don't know if i do that more for Kubuntu or KDE work though
[17:32] <DreadKnight> nixternal: how do you find opensuse overall?
[17:32] <nixternal> probably one of the best to be honest
[17:32] <ScottK> nixternal: Did you see aseigo's post on distro branding?
[17:32] <nixternal> opensuse boot time is whicked fast, I don't get it
[17:32] <DreadKnight> i love kubuntu, but i'm sick of canonical or whoever is shitting intel users with failed graphic drivers
[17:32] <nixternal> ScottK: yes I did
[17:32] <ScottK> nixternal: Someone (not me, my plate is full) needs to get on that.
[17:32] <nixternal> I suggest kwwii to be honest
[17:33] <ScottK> DreadKnight: We shipped what Intel gave us.  Generally that's a good move, but it's not really (primarily) Canonical's fault.
[17:33] <DreadKnight> i don't get yast, yum and zipper mainly
[17:33] <nixternal> Yast isn't bad, zypper is a bit nuts at times, and yum has died except for centos and red hat :p
[17:33] <DreadKnight> and opensuse is more windows/corporate like, bad usability and bloated with settings, even in the installer
[17:34] <DreadKnight> i wish yast was just implemented into kde/gnome control centers...
[17:34] <nixternal> I hated the fact I had to do do RPM development at my last job...luckily things like ant rpm make it so much easier
[17:34] <nixternal> it is hard for me to call opensuse bloated considering its speed compared to everyone else
[17:34] <nixternal> arch has a good kde implementation as well
[17:35] <DreadKnight> i'm not fond of rmps as well, but as far as i know, opensuse uses delta = minimal download time for updates, woot!
[17:35] <DreadKnight> chakra was interesting... but lacks devs...
[17:35] <nixternal> though there are a few packages they couldn't figure out how to build on their builders, so someone actually just did a local build and packaged the binaries
[17:35] <DreadKnight> nothing beats the ubuntu/kubuntu live installer... nice and small wizard to get the job done fast and without headackes
[17:35] <nixternal> i had no clue that arch was actually started here in chicago and there are a lot of devs here
[17:35] <nixternal> though they are all in high school which is pretty neat
[17:35] <nixternal> luckily we got nhandler :)
[17:36] <DreadKnight> i think arch is for geeks
[17:36] <ScottK> After opensuse 10.1 and being told essentially if I wanted an actual working system I should use SLED, opensus == Never again for me.
[17:36] <ScottK> opensus/opensuse
[17:36] <nixternal> honestly, fedora is the one to watch out for
[17:36] <nixternal> their KDE HIG is very good
[17:36] <nixternal> and they are all around a great group of people
[17:36] <apachelogger> +1
[17:36] <DreadKnight> linux mint is the most noob friendly atm and it has nice website/community-forum/planet and so on
[17:37] <ScottK> nixternal:  So great they convinced Linux to run Gnome?
[17:37] <ScottK> Linux/Linus
[17:37] <nixternal> see, i never paid attention to mint or pclos really
[17:37]  * ScottK can't type today.
[17:37] <DreadKnight> fedora is not so vanilla, bloaded with stuff and lesser artwork and it's even hard to find what you want to download on their website overall
[17:37] <nixternal> ScottK: that's because they made the same decision we did by replacing kde3 so early
[17:37] <DreadKnight> t*
[17:37] <nixternal> if Linus was using KUbuntu, the results would have been the same
[17:37] <apachelogger> +1
[17:37] <ScottK> nixternal: Not the same as we did, they were insane enough to ship 4.0 as default.
[17:38] <ScottK> That's my understanding.  Is that wrong?
[17:38] <apachelogger> ScottK: like it was any better with 4.1?
[17:38] <apachelogger> and like our KDE 3 in hardy is all that good :P
[17:38] <ScottK> apachelogger: I found 4.1 pretty usable.
[17:38] <nixternal> ScottK: that I would blame on whoever runs the download stuff, because they also had a kde3 release that wasn't marketed like the kde4 release
[17:38] <ScottK> 4.2 is way better.
[17:38] <DreadKnight> 4.3 is way better as well
[17:38] <DreadKnight> but still 'not there'
[17:39] <nixternal> 4.3 is even better :)
[17:39] <apachelogger> well
[17:39] <DreadKnight> most kde apps are epic fail
[17:39] <apachelogger> you know
[17:39] <apachelogger> plasma-mid is crashing on me
[17:39] <apachelogger> so I guess I don't like .43
[17:39] <apachelogger> 4.3 even
[17:39] <nixternal> lol
[17:39] <apachelogger> though 4.4. should be usable again :P
[17:39] <rickspencer3> how is NM coming along for Karrmic?
[17:39] <nixternal> rickspencer3: kde is holding a nm sprint right now
[17:39] <nixternal> so we should know more in the next couple of days
[17:39] <apachelogger> in oslo
[17:39] <rickspencer3> sweet
[17:39] <ScottK> rickspencer3: The version we have in karmic and jaunty-proposed is much better.
[17:39] <apachelogger> and I was not invited
[17:39] <apachelogger> not like I could have made it, but still :P
[17:39] <DreadKnight> man i hate the network manager applet, too many circles.. too dizzy
[17:40] <rickspencer3> good to know, that will be very important for the netbook story
[17:40] <Mamarok> apachelogger: 4.3 works much better than 4.2 in Jaunty btw...
[17:40] <rickspencer3> does it manage 3G connections very well?
[17:40] <DreadKnight> (the icon i mean)
[17:40] <nixternal> 3g? that is so 5 years ago now, especially here in chicago...they are putting up 4g? towers
[17:40] <nixternal> and already have service up on this new beast
[17:40] <apachelogger> 4g!
[17:41] <nixternal> don't know what it is, but I heard someone call it 4g
[17:41] <nixternal> don't follow the part of the world all that much..I am still on an EDGE network :(
[17:41] <apachelogger> rickspencer3: I think they have some gsoc students on mobile connections in general
[17:41] <apachelogger> might be wrong though
[17:41] <nixternal> someone is working on it because I saw a blog post about it
[17:41] <rickspencer3> I have a 3G USB stick, so I can test it out when the netbook image is ready
[17:41] <nixternal> there are quite a few people working on the nm stuff for kde right now that are at the sprint, that was pretty impressive
[17:42] <Mamarok> nixternal: you mean WIMAX?
[17:42] <nixternal> Mamarok: nah, we have wimax everywhere, for more than a year now
[17:42]  * Mamarok wonders what 4g would be then
[17:42] <nixternal> you see these huge Intel and Motorola towers that they have branded big time....looks like a Gentoo user decorated it :p
[17:43] <nixternal> it is whatever is replacing 3g
[17:43] <nixternal> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4G
[17:43] <apachelogger> rickspencer3: fregl mentioned "students working on mobile broadband connections" in his most recent blog post, he might know more
[17:43] <nixternal> Chicago is home to Motorola, so we get everything new like this first
[17:43] <nixternal> when I had family members at motorola it was great, we would get the cell phones a year before they came out
[17:43] <nixternal> they don't do that stuff anymore though
[17:44] <apachelogger> Mamarok: didn't some important dood like say that WIMAX aint ever gonna be used?
[17:44]  * apachelogger remembers reading something about it
[17:44] <nixternal> as a matter of fact, I am supposed to go hang out with the Motorola Android developers today at Google for our LUG meeting
[17:44] <apachelogger> nixternal: sounds corporate :P
[17:45] <nixternal> nah, it is a bunch of friends, they are big time open source contributors
[17:45] <nixternal> it is really cool stuff too
[17:45] <nixternal> plus I get to go smack around Fitz and Ben Sussman
[17:45] <apachelogger> well, I would ahve liked corporate better :P
[17:45] <nixternal> make fun of them, Subversion, and Poisonous People :p
[17:45]  * apachelogger finds nixternal evil today
[17:46] <nixternal> just today?
[17:46] <nixternal> apachelogger: oh btw, the red hat development labs in chicago, they are called the "batcave" dude
[17:46]  * rickspencer3 back to coding up a Gtk Treeview, what fun
[17:46] <apachelogger> Oo
[17:46] <apachelogger> sue them
[17:46] <nixternal> ewww, gtk ;p
[17:46] <nixternal> though I will admit, pygtk is about as easy as it could get
[17:47] <apachelogger> oh, talking about coding ... creating plasmoids is fun
[17:47] <nixternal> depends :)
[17:47] <nixternal> what is your definition of fun
[17:47] <apachelogger> well, coding fun
[17:47] <nixternal> I created a 5-a-day plasmoid just in time for 5-a-day to stop :p
[17:47] <apachelogger> ruby + qt + kde + plasma
[17:47] <apachelogger> just the awsome
[17:47] <nixternal> I have yet to jump on that ruby band wagon
[17:47] <nixternal> I really need to though, especially Rails
[17:48] <apachelogger> rails is also uber awesome
[17:48] <Sput> apachelogger: afaik, wimax isn't deployed in .eu, but gaining momentum in .us
[17:48] <nixternal> I have become so addicted to django and web development, though I still kind of suck, that RoR is fascinating
[17:48] <rickspencer3> well, the Treeview class seems a little over-factored to me
[17:48] <Sput> which is why you get wimax-capable cell phones overseas, but not so much over here (we still have UMTS instead)
[17:48] <nixternal> apachelogger: I live right by David Heinemeier Hansson
[17:48] <rickspencer3> like to make a selection you have to ask for a selection object, and then use set_selection_range or something
[17:49] <apachelogger> Oo
[17:49] <rickspencer3> nothing is a one liner
[17:49] <nixternal> http://www.flickr.com/photos/opacity/3415472553/  <- me hanging out with the main motorola android dude, a bit close, but that is just the way the spanish are :p
[17:49] <rickspencer3> you'd think myTreeview.select_row(0) or something would work
[17:50] <apachelogger> hm
[17:50] <apachelogger> does not?
[17:50] <nixternal> everyone complains about treeview :)
[17:50] <apachelogger> you know
[17:50] <apachelogger> in ruby + qt + kde +plasma almost everything is a one liner ;-)
[17:50] <nixternal> http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=flourish09&s=rec  <- our hacker space rocks!
[17:50] <apachelogger> nixternal: one like should move to chicago I guess
[17:50] <nixternal> if you don't have a fatboy bean bag, I suggest you go get one
[17:51] <apachelogger> everyone lives there
[17:51] <nixternal> not just everyone, but me dude! :)
[17:52] <apachelogger> hm, though david heinemeier hansson looks better than you :P
[17:52] <nixternal> http://www.flickr.com/photos/opacity/3415332787/ <- there you go, me, dhh, daliah saper, and christoph lameter on an open source panel...christoph now lives in chicago too :)
[17:52] <nixternal> apachelogger: you are smoking crack
[17:52] <nixternal> he gets the ladies cuz he drives a $300,000 car
[17:53] <nixternal> I take public transportation and ride a bike :p
[17:53] <apachelogger> hm
[17:53] <apachelogger> then again I find bikes rather attracting
[17:53]  * nixternal stops riding a bike
[17:53] <apachelogger> lul
[17:54] <apachelogger> so
[17:54] <apachelogger> I still don't know what students fregl was taking about
[17:54] <nixternal> daliah saper is a good friend to have, she lets you know when your are breaking a license
[17:54] <apachelogger> hehe
[17:54] <Nightrose> apachelogger: Knut's students
[17:54] <Nightrose> he's in oslo atm
[17:54] <nixternal> http://www.flickr.com/photos/opacity/3415348773/ <- those arms would break dhh in half!
[17:54] <Nightrose> nm sprint
[17:54] <nixternal> what a goofy look on my face
[17:55] <apachelogger> well, yeah, that was obvious, but what kind of students?
[17:55] <Nightrose> they're doing nm stuff for Knut
[17:55] <Nightrose> don't know mire either
[17:55] <Nightrose> *more
[17:55] <apachelogger> so they must be groupies kind of students :P
[17:56] <apachelogger> nixternal: weird look indeed
[17:56] <nixternal> everyone at this open source conference didn't like dhh cuz of his attitude, shoot that is the reason I like the dude, we both have that f it mentality :)
[17:57] <nixternal> do we have a Kubuntu barber at all? I need a haircut
[17:57] <lex79> apachelogger: I was waiting debian for fotowall
[17:57] <apachelogger> I once dated a barber, maybe he would be interested in becoming a Kubuntu barber
[17:58] <apachelogger> though that dude was rather weird
[17:58] <nixternal> apachelogger: there you go, get him on board
[17:58] <lex79> apachelogger: upstream isn't responding to my emails
[17:58] <nixternal> apachelogger: you are rather weird, but we still love you
[17:58] <apachelogger> lex79: maybe comment @kde-apps?
[17:58] <apachelogger> nixternal: trust me, he is a lot more weird than I am :P
[17:59] <nixternal> you know what I was disappointed in at the last UDS, I didn't see any weird people in Ubuntu, except for sabdfl cuz he dressed all nice while everyone else was jeans/shorts and t-shirts :p
[17:59] <maco> nixternal, i dressed nice
[18:00] <apachelogger> hm
[18:00] <maco> nixternal, i didn't pack a single pair of jeans. i wore skirts every day
[18:00] <nixternal> maco: did you go to UDS Mt. View? I don't remember
[18:00] <maco> no, just teh most recent one
[18:01] <apachelogger> UDS for 10.10 I shall attend in leather & latex
[18:01] <nixternal> ok, was gonna say
[18:01] <lex79> apachelogger: ok I'll comment to kde-apps this evening
[18:01] <Mamarok> apachelogger: why not earlier?
[18:01] <nixternal> you haven't talked trash about me and tequila at UDS so I wans't sure :p
[18:01] <nixternal> though at UDS I was drinking nxvl's Pisco
[18:01] <apachelogger> Mamarok: will not make it to 10.04
[18:01] <nixternal> actually, greg g. and I polished off one whole bottle in like 5 minutes
[18:01] <nixternal> that wasn't good
[18:01] <Mamarok> oh, where is it btw?
[18:02] <apachelogger> not settled
[18:02] <apachelogger> as if that would matter
[18:02] <apachelogger> oh, uh, ah, or maybe I should furry-up for UDS
[18:02] <Mamarok> apachelogger: it does if it's in the US
[18:02]  * Mamarok will not give her fongerprints away that easily
[18:03] <apachelogger> hm
[18:03] <Mamarok> fingerprints even...
[18:03] <apachelogger> what do they do if there are no fingers to take finger prints from?
[18:03] <apachelogger> like someone without arms or something
[18:03] <apachelogger> no getting in?
[18:03] <Mamarok> apachelogger: iris scan?
[18:03] <Mamarok> ...I suppose
[18:03] <apachelogger> and if he also aint got no eyes?
[18:04] <apachelogger> like he was terrorist and a bomb exploded while he was still working on it
[18:04] <Mamarok> apachelogger: well, then I don't know, not letting him In I suppose
[18:05] <apachelogger> rather rude that is
[18:05] <apachelogger> but makes sense, since he was terrorist
[18:05] <Mamarok> apachelogger: I read a report not long ago about a man/woman who was refused the entry because of missing fingerpirnts
[18:05] <Mamarok> and it was due to some chemotherapy, which is not uncommon
[18:06] <apachelogger> fancy
[18:06] <apachelogger> so lets hope I don't need chemo until 10.10 UDS or that 10.10 UDS is not in the US :P
[18:08] <maco> it was a cancer treatment that's used for cancers in the head and throat instead of chemo
[18:09] <Mamarok> maco: cancer treatement is chemo...
[18:09] <apachelogger> what is radiation for then?
[18:09] <Mamarok> apachelogger: also, most of the time you get both
[18:09] <maco> Mamarok, i thought chemo was just one type of cancer treatment
[18:09] <apachelogger> eww
[18:10] <Mamarok> maco: its a general term for all pharmaceuticals used in cancer treatement
[18:10] <maco> ohok
[18:11] <maco> capecitabine <-- thats the cancer drug he had
[18:11] <Mamarok> yes, just found that report again
[18:16] <nixternal> hey, that person with the chemo and no fingerprints, was on a tv show called "Homeland Security" on NBC
[18:38] <_Groo_> hi/2 all
[18:40] <nixternal> wow, cutting a "hi" in half, what, you don't love us all enough to say hi to everyone? :p
[18:41] <apachelogger> Oo
[18:41] <apachelogger> no cookies for _Groo_
[18:42] <nixternal> YIKES! My C++ has gone in the toilet big time....to much Python makes nixternal a dumb boy
[18:42] <nixternal> nothing like searching API docs like crazy :)
[18:42] <apachelogger> API docs ftw!
[18:42] <nixternal> man, kdevelop is coming along amazingly right now
[18:43] <jussi01> kubotu: order apachelogger a beer
[18:43]  * kubotu slides apachelogger a beer down the bar to jussi01
[18:43] <nixternal> I want one!
[18:43] <nixternal> tequila if you got it
[18:43] <groo_> nixternal: actually im from the time of os/2... that was the way we os/2 warriors cheered each other
[18:43] <nixternal> heh
[18:43] <jussi01> I think my syntax is wrong...
[18:44] <jussi01> kubotu: order a tequila for nixternal
[18:44]  * kubotu slides a tequila down the bar to nixternal
[18:44] <jussi01> there we are :)
[18:44] <nixternal> yes!
[18:44] <nixternal> hey maco, 12:44, to late for tequila :p
[18:45] <groo_> soooo. wheres kde 4.3 beta 2? me volunteers to test the upgrade
[18:47] <nixternal> http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php/Calling+artists!+GAIA09!?content=106232
[18:47] <nixternal> that's pretty cool, but I think it may look a bit much like Vista or whatever the latest Windows junk is
[18:50] <groo_> nixternal: vista + 1 = 7
[18:50] <nixternal> is that what it looks like?
[18:54] <apachelogger> well
[18:54] <apachelogger> irb(main):001:0> vista + 1
[18:54] <apachelogger> => 7
[18:55] <apachelogger> irb(main):002:0> p vista
[18:55] <apachelogger> 6
[18:55] <apachelogger> => nil
[18:55] <apachelogger> to make that clear
[18:58]  * groo_ summons kde 4.3 beta 2 and all the demons, rise apachelogger, JontheEchidna, and the gang of the three powers!
[19:02] <nixternal> anyone working on pyqt 4.5 yet?
[19:03] <_Groo_> nixternal: i backported a snapshot in order to compile kdebindings svn, which lead me to backport qscintilla2...
[19:04] <nixternal> have they been uploaded yet?
[19:05] <_Groo_> nixternal: nope, why should they?
[19:09] <nixternal> why shouldn't they?
[19:10] <nixternal> sorry, you said snapshot
[19:10] <nixternal> pyqt4.5 was released today
[19:10] <nixternal> yesterday rather
[19:10] <_Groo_> ah... didnt knew that
[19:10] <nixternal> hehe
[19:10] <_Groo_> nixternal: :)
[19:12] <_Groo_> nixternal: is any ppa being populated with kde 4.2 beta 2 packages yet?
[19:19] <Mamarok> _Groo_: you mean 4.2.88?
[19:19] <_Groo_> Mamarok: if its beta 2, then yes
[19:29] <nixternal> new kpackagekit released as well
[19:29] <nixternal> though it is the API/ABI breaking version
[19:29] <nixternal> wondering why packagekit is kind of outdated in both jaunty and karmic...odd
[20:20] <ScottK> We don't get them from Debian (IIRC), so it takes someone actually updating it ...
[20:27] <Quintasan> hmm, what do you thing about including krunner plugin for kopete?
[20:27] <Quintasan> s/thing/think
[20:54] <jussi01> Quintasan: what are the pros and cons?
[20:56] <Quintasan> dunno about cons but IMO it's faster to press alt+f2 and search for contacts, Show offline contacts is disabled by default so its irritaing to enable it, search for desired contact and then disable it
[20:56] <Quintasan> jussi01: ^
[20:57] <jussi01> SOunds ok, how about stableness, size, libs it pulls in?
[20:59] <Quintasan> size is very small, trying to build using kdelibs5-deb only since dev didn't provide exact dependencies, afaik it pulls no libs and
[21:01] <jussi01> nice. someone else probably has better questions than me though
[21:02] <Quintasan> hmm DreadKnight is not here
[21:02] <jussi01> hrm, anyone know if kde has an equivalent of cheese?
[21:03] <Quintasan> jussi01: I'm afraid not :/
[21:03] <Quintasan> It was discussed somewhere, maybe at UDS
[21:04]  * jussi01 vaguely remembers something on planet about someone attempting to wrie one...
[21:04] <jussi01> planet kde iirc
[21:04]  * Quintasan wonders if he will make it to MOTU till end of this year
[21:04] <Quintasan> :P
[21:06]  * Quintasan loves building 2 packages at same time
[21:06]  * vorian is guilty of building 7 once
[21:06] <Quintasan> sometimes I want to throw my computer through the window
[21:07] <jussi01> yeah, theres this, dont know about quality though: http://www.kde-apps.org/content/show.php/webKam?content=76902
[21:07] <vorian> Lenovo is having a sale this weekend
[21:07] <vorian> fwiw
[21:07] <Quintasan> vorian: what's your machines spec?
[21:07] <vorian> for the 7 builds, t61 - dual core wrt 4gigs memory
[21:08] <vorian> i do have a desktop wrt quad core and 8 gigs
[21:08] <Quintasan> hm.. what was the word... fancy?
[21:08] <Quintasan> lol
[21:08] <vorian> but, since i built it for my wife - i never get to play with it much
[21:08] <Quintasan> LOL
[21:08] <vorian> ha
[21:08]  * Quintasan steals vorian's wife PC
[21:09] <vorian> noooo!
[21:09] <Quintasan> mine is AMD Athlon 64 3000+ and 1GB memory
[21:09] <vorian> not bad at all
[21:09] <jussi01> Ive a quad core desktop with 4gb ram
[21:09] <vorian> you can at least build amd64 and i386
[21:09] <Quintasan> nothing you can do about it, it's in my room already vorian :P
[21:09] <ryanakca> Quintasan: Same, but with 512MB
[21:10] <Quintasan> ryanakca: how's notifications working for you?
[21:11] <ryanakca> Quintasan: ... they work fine, anything I should look out for?
[21:11] <Quintasan> hmm
[21:11] <Quintasan> if I watch a move or browse, and I recive a message on Kopete, playback is freezed and it takes 3-5 secs to notification to appear
[21:12] <Quintasan> dunno why, or maximizing amarok from tray takes ~7 seconds because I have only window decoration and the rest of interface is being drawn :P
[21:12] <Quintasan> ryanakca: what's your graphics cards?
[21:12] <ryanakca> Quintasan: haven't had that happen, but yes, everything is generally slow
[21:13] <ryanakca> 02:00.0 VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation G70 [GeForce 7600 GS] (rev a1)
[21:13] <Quintasan> 02:00.1 Display controller: ATI Technologies Inc RV350 AS [Radeon 9550] (Secondary)
[21:13] <Quintasan> :<
[21:13] <ryanakca> Heh :/
[21:14] <Quintasan> jussi01: how's webKam?
[21:16] <Quintasan> http://forum.kde.org/krunner-interface-to-amarok-t-61685.html <-- vote if you like it :P
[21:17] <jussi01> Quintasan: it doesnt seem to show any video for me...
[21:17] <jussi01> oh and its in the repos...
[21:17] <Quintasan> woah, seriously?
[21:17] <jussi01> !info webkam
[21:17] <jussi01> hrm
[21:17] <jussi01> maybe I have some ppa with it..
[21:18] <jussi01> or it dids something weird when I looked
[21:18]  * jussi01 shuts  up and goes to figure it out...
[21:18] <neversfelde> webkam uses gstreamer
[21:18]  * Quintasan needs cofeee
[21:18] <jussi01> neversfelde: ahh
[21:31] <Quintasan> jussi01: I lol'd, it takes ~30 mb's of builddeps, kdenetwork-dev :/
[21:36] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: oh lawd, kdeplasma-addons now dep's on 30 MB more of marble-data
[21:36] <_Groo_> devs, how do i add a directory into cmakelists.txt so i can compile amarok with the playground new goodies?
[21:36] <_Groo_> JontheEchidna: are you uploading to a ppa yet? same ppa of beta 1?
[21:36] <JontheEchidna> it will be the same ppa
[21:37] <JontheEchidna> we haven't started jaunty backports yet (but those shouldn't take too long, testing is the main thing)
[21:37] <_Groo_> JontheEchidna: ok...
[22:01] <Quintasan> JontheEchidna: hi :P
[22:16] <JontheEchidna> hi
[22:30] <Quintasan> http://pastebin.com/m42e9289c  <-- can anyone tell me whats going on? never had this problem
[22:30] <JontheEchidna> there's a debhelper.mk rules file that you'll need to include if you use kde.mk
[22:31] <JontheEchidna> that one had me scratching my head too
[22:31] <JontheEchidna> include /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/debhelper.mk
[22:31] <JontheEchidna> Quintasan: ^
[22:32] <Quintasan> JontheEchidna: thanks!
[22:46] <_Groo_> JontheEchidna: im finishing a amarok build from master with included playground goodies.. dont know if my little patch to cmakelist worked though... gonna see
[22:46] <Quintasan> awesome, just awesome
[22:49] <_Groo_> YES.. it added the new code :)
[22:49]  * _Groo_ wonders if he needs to create a new amarok-playground.install then .. hmmm a thing to check in the future
[22:51] <Quintasan> JontheEchidna, vorian, apachelogger: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/krunner-kopete <-- check this out
[22:54] <JontheEchidna> nifty
[22:55] <_Groo_> damn, amarok with the new video service is so damn cool... cloud is nice too
[22:55] <JontheEchidna> Quintasan: I'd change the second line of the long desc to "to start a chat with them without needing to open the Kopete window"
[22:56] <Quintasan> oh wait, I will also file a bug and close it :P
[23:04] <Quintasan> JontheEchidna: should be better now
[23:04] <apachelogger> you know
[23:05] <apachelogger> I would really appreciate it if you would check the license crap before uploading to revu :P
[23:05] <apachelogger> the LICENSE file (which btw is completely no-standard naming) is a copy of GPL3
[23:05] <apachelogger> now
[23:05] <apachelogger> one would expect upstream to know what licenses they are using
[23:06] <apachelogger> yet, the .cpp and the .h are lpgl2+
[23:06] <apachelogger> fancy, isn't it? :P
[23:06] <Quintasan> how the hell?
[23:06] <apachelogger> oh, actually it is lgpl2 only
[23:06] <apachelogger> Quintasan: yeah, one gets to wonder :D
[23:06] <vorian> yeah
[23:07] <Quintasan> srlsy, what on earth
[23:07] <vorian> wrong license file
[23:07] <Quintasan> hmm, more changes, and I thought it would require less than two changes
[23:08] <Quintasan> so I need to change the debian/copyright to lpgl2 ?
[23:08] <vorian> yeah, and the tarball needs to have same said license shipped with it
[23:08] <Quintasan> so quilt added to deps
[23:09] <apachelogger> huh
[23:09] <apachelogger> Quintasan: quilt?
[23:09] <apachelogger> "Runner plugin for KRunner"
[23:09] <apachelogger> that should be rethinked
[23:10] <apachelogger> shounds "kinda" weird
[23:10] <Quintasan> quilt,dpatch whatever
[23:10] <apachelogger> Quintasan: for?
[23:10] <Quintasan> argh
[23:10] <apachelogger> the license should a) be changed upstream b) if upstream doesn't do that or doesn't want to release a new tarball you should repack the tarball mention that int he changelog ... but only _after_ upstream applied the change in SVN or somewhere
[23:11]  * apachelogger notes that usually b should never apply as upstream should care about having his stuff properly licensed
[23:11] <apachelogger> then again upstream doesn't know what license he is using anyway :P
[23:12] <Quintasan> and what the name should be instead of LICENSE?
[23:12] <Quintasan> I'm going to pokestorm him
[23:12] <apachelogger> bug #384382
[23:13] <apachelogger> Quintasan: COPYING
[23:13] <Quintasan> thx
[23:13] <apachelogger> that is really minor annoyance... though it makes sense to stick with well adopted standards ;-)
[23:13] <vorian> or WEWILLSUEYOURASSOFF
[23:13] <apachelogger> hrrhrr
[23:14] <vorian> why is google all tetrisy?
[23:14] <apachelogger> at least he aint got no binary crap in the tarball
[23:14] <apachelogger> vorian: was wondering as well, no idea though
[23:14] <apachelogger> oh
[23:14] <apachelogger> btw
[23:14] <apachelogger> did I publish my all fancy script to check for blob?
[23:14] <vorian> nay
[23:14] <apachelogger> oh dear
[23:14]  * apachelogger better checks if there is a reason for it
[23:15] <apachelogger> oh
[23:15] <vorian> I thought you gave up on it
[23:15] <apachelogger> it seems to be goo code
[23:15] <apachelogger> vorian: well, it works well enough to be used
[23:16] <apachelogger> could be more efficient I suppose
[23:16] <apachelogger> threading and stuff
[23:16] <vorian> anything is better than now, or we could always upload kdelibs last
[23:16] <apachelogger> http://paste.ubuntu.com/189873/
[23:16] <apachelogger> vorian: are we talking about the same thing? :P
[23:17]  * vorian thinks we are talking about different thinies
[23:17] <_Groo_> amarok with playground goodies going up to my ppa
[23:17] <_Groo_> pretty cool btw... the video applet rules
[23:17] <apachelogger> vorian: so what did you mean?
[23:17] <vorian> nothing
[23:18] <apachelogger> cmon, I wanna know
[23:18] <apachelogger> was it something nasty?
[23:18] <_Groo_> but its a 120MB+ monster.. which there where an easier way to upload to ppa
[23:18] <vorian> a some sort of demangle scraper script to watch builds on the buildfarm
[23:18] <apachelogger> _Groo_: I meant to talk to you about that
[23:18] <_Groo_> apachelogger: about what
[23:18] <apachelogger> _Groo_: run ls -la in your amarok src real quick
[23:19] <_Groo_> apachelogger: it has mysql, amarok and debian
[23:19] <apachelogger> vorian: yah, gave up on that ... should be done in python really ... though ... I might have half the code somewhere
[23:19] <apachelogger> just got dragged away really ... most of the parser comonent is done AFAIK
[23:20] <apachelogger> so one would only need to figure out the datastorage and presentation
[23:20] <vorian> apachelogger: no worries
[23:20] <apachelogger> _Groo_: I mean... like ... exactly what that command spits out
[23:21] <vorian> what the
[23:21] <apachelogger> vorian: go talk to nixternal he is a python django pony, so he probably could implement the whole story
[23:21] <apachelogger> using launchpad libs
[23:21] <_Groo_> apachelogger: inside amarok src dir or a level up?
[23:21] <apachelogger> and I have to mention again that I find it rather weird to write them in python rather than c+autotranslation to $language
[23:21] <apachelogger> _Groo_: the one you invoke debuild in
[23:22] <_Groo_> drwxr-xr-x 13 groo groo     752 2009-06-06 17:54 amarok_svn
[23:22] <_Groo_> drwxr-xr-x  2 groo groo      48 2009-03-31 17:15 build
[23:22] <_Groo_> drwxr-xr-x  5 groo groo     448 2009-06-06 19:00 debian
[23:22] <_Groo_> -rw-r--r--  1 groo groo 9774824 2009-03-28 18:17 mysql-dfsg-5.1_5.1.30.orig.tar.lzma
[23:22] <apachelogger> rofl
[23:22]  * apachelogger passes out right away
[23:22] <nixternal> what's up?
[23:22] <_Groo_> did i err? oO
[23:23] <apachelogger> nixternal: go build a framework that gets build status from lunchpad and spits them out in fancy ajax or something
[23:23] <apachelogger> to watch overall build progress on stuff
[23:23] <Quintasan> lol
[23:23] <apachelogger> _Groo_: here goes the story
[23:23] <nixternal> apachelogger: that's it?
[23:23] <apachelogger> a) if you do an svn checkout, svn will leave a track of that checkout
[23:23] <apachelogger> in fact
[23:23] <apachelogger> nixternal: yes
[23:23] <_Groo_> i have a wish.. i want to be able to upload files to launchpad via web, instead dput
[23:23] <nixternal> that's only an hour worth of work
[23:24] <apachelogger> any vcs will do that
[23:24] <apachelogger> just the names differ
[23:24] <apachelogger> so you get like .svn and .git and .bzr ...
[23:24] <_Groo_> apachelogger: yes that i know
[23:24] <nixternal> _Groo_: dput couldn't be any easier though
[23:24] <nixternal> dput ppa:yourname/ppa foo.changes
[23:24] <vorian> dput yomama
[23:24] <nixternal> haha
[23:25] <Quintasan> :D
[23:25] <vorian> (that's my default)
[23:25] <apachelogger> those folders for the better part duplicate (in most cases duplicate^2) the data you checkoued
[23:25] <_Groo_> nixternal: no, dput is fine.. the problem is that during the week im behind a firewall/proxy (atw ork), and dput doesnt work fine with http_proxy.. so a web way to upload thiongs would be nice
[23:25] <apachelogger> checkedout even
[23:25] <apachelogger> or something like that
[23:25] <apachelogger> in any case it bloats the data
[23:25] <apachelogger> so
[23:25] <_Groo_> apachelogger: so how do i clean them before doing a debuild -S -sa?
[23:25] <nixternal> ahh
[23:25] <apachelogger> _Groo_: some fancy cmd line
[23:25] <_Groo_> svn cleanup?
[23:25] <apachelogger> nah
[23:25] <nixternal> where are the ppas for us now
[23:26] <apachelogger> well
[23:26] <Quintasan> _Groo_:  rm -r .git/.svn/.wtfyouused
[23:26] <apachelogger> well
[23:26] <nixternal> there are like a bunch, but I cna't find the main one dangit
[23:26] <apachelogger> no
[23:26] <apachelogger> Quintasan: that would work for bzr and git
[23:26] <apachelogger> not for svn
[23:26] <vorian> nixternal: ~kubuntu-ppa
[23:26] <apachelogger> because svn goes recursive
[23:26] <apachelogger> so you have blah/.svn and blah/src/.svn ....
[23:26] <nixternal> ahh, i did everything but *-ppa :)
[23:26] <Quintasan> oh god
[23:27] <_Groo_> apachelogger: ok, whats the fancy command then?
[23:27] <apachelogger> I have no idea
[23:27] <apachelogger> coded it once in my live in a script :P
[23:28] <apachelogger> and in that script I actually replaced it with ruby magic
[23:28] <_Groo_> apachelogger: _*@#$#*@(*#@)*#)(@#
[23:28] <apachelogger> something like find ./ -name .svn | xargs rm -rf
[23:28] <_Groo_> apachelogger: yeah yeah, brb :D
[23:28] <apachelogger> anyway
[23:28] <apachelogger> b) you really want to compress the data, rather than what you have right now
[23:30] <_Groo_> apachelogger: how?
[23:30] <apachelogger> this got 2 reasons: 1) both bzip2 and lzma have better compression than gzip (which would be used if you don't compress the stuff yourself) 2) if you don't do it that way and compose a .orig.tar.gz you will end up with a gigantic .diff.gz (which in itselfis bad practise) also if the build fails in a ppa you will be screwed if you did not go the .orig.tar.gz way because you will have to reupload all the crap while only the debia
[23:30] <apachelogger>  relevant
[23:31] <apachelogger> tar -cf amarok.tar amarok_svn && lzma -9 amarok.tar
[23:31] <apachelogger> you will need to make sure that your debian/rules got the appropriate code to unpack it though
[23:31] <apachelogger> which you probably commented out to make your solution work :P
[23:32] <apachelogger> c) unless the build/ directory is created by debian/rules and removed in its clean target it will also be part of the tarball/diff/upload
[23:32] <_Groo_> the build is created by debian/rules
[23:32] <apachelogger> abc make your amarok upload 120 MiB vs. 12 (or something) for the official one :P
[23:33] <_Groo_> apachelogger: ok :)
[23:33] <apachelogger> _Groo_: so hopefully it removes that dir as well ... if it is not gone after debuild -S -sa it does not get removed, which means that you should add an appropriate command to the clean target
[23:33] <apachelogger> ~time
[23:33] <kubotu> apachelogger: Europe - Vienna - Sun Jun 07 00:33 CEST
[23:34]  * apachelogger is going to hit the shower so he can go to bed at somewhat sensible time
[23:34] <apachelogger> cyas
[23:34] <_Groo_> thanks apachelogger
[23:34] <Quintasan> oh well I'm off to bed too :P
[23:34] <Quintasan> night everyone
[23:35] <vorian> ~time
[23:35] <kubotu> vorian: America - New York - Sat Jun 06 18:35 EDT
[23:36] <Quintasan> LOL
[23:36] <Quintasan> so early
[23:36] <Quintasan> 00:36 here
[23:36] <vorian> yup
[23:36] <Quintasan> Sunday ofc :P
[23:37] <Quintasan> hmm if I have to get up at 9 I really should go to sleep
[23:45] <_Groo_> ppl if a build fails in ppa how do i send only the diff?