[19:04] <mup> Bug #1737346 opened: IPv4 and IPv6 spaces (v4 & v6 multi-homing): handling IPv4 and IPv6 subnets on the same VLAN <cpe-onsite> <juju:New> <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1737346>
[19:04] <mup> Bug #1737348 opened: IPMI: Add support for custom port <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1737348>
[21:32] <mup> Bug #1737357 opened: [2.3.0] ovs bridge device recognition: "node <hostname> renamed interface eth0 to br0" <cpe-onsite> <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1737357>


[00:56] <PCLine__> Good evening everyone.
[00:57] <Unit193> Howdy.
[00:57] <Unit193> dzho: Microcenter sounds like a great idea.
[02:07] <thafreak> dzho: there's a microcenter a few miles from where OLF is held in cbus
[02:07] <thafreak> I would just go there
[02:07] <thafreak> cleveland sucks to drive in :)
[02:08] <thafreak> I'm not allowed at microcenter
[02:09] <thafreak> I tend to spend like $500 when i go
[02:09] <thafreak> and i tend to buy another raspberry pi everytime i'm there...because they have them
[02:09] <thafreak> i have like 4 or so still in the box
[02:09] <thafreak> :/
[12:35] <dzho> thafreak: I have to drive through greater cleveland anyway, and this way it breaks up my trip.
[12:35] <dzho> I have been to the one in columbus that you speak of.
[12:35] <dzho> first time I went, I got to columbus just an hour before they closed :/
[12:36] <dzho> so, I don't want to be in a rush to avoid that this time.
[12:36] <dzho> thafreak: heh, got my first rpi there, yeah.
[12:36] <dzho> got a banana pi as a gift.
[12:36] <dzho> so far, those are the only two of that kind of form factor I have.
[12:37] <dzho> if microcenter has the pi2 in stock at a reasonable price, that might be something I'd pick up.
[12:37] <dzho> also, my current laptop bag I got there and it has been great but is starting to wear out.
[16:22] <jrgifford> I'm really not allowed in Microcenter...
[16:22] <jrgifford> same reason as thafreak
[16:22] <jrgifford> It's difficult to avoid walking out of there without spending at LEAST $100.


[00:59] <bluesabre> ochosi: broken in the printer dialog as well
[03:10] <bluesabre> ochosi: not sure if you're interested at this point, but do you want to give my latest light-locker-settings a spin? http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~light-locker-settings-team/light-locker-settings/trunk/revision/121
[03:10] <bluesabre> Unit193: feel free to drop it from the seed, I'll get it sponsored normally as needed when I think its good to go
[03:12] <bluesabre> ochosi: aware of any missing icons?  I've spotted a few and can bug you about them
[03:15] <bluesabre> ochosi: icon, and if you think the highlight on the popover seems odd http://imgur.com/Nv4RoSa
[07:37] <ochosi> bluesabre: well obviously, you always need to tell me about missing icons!
[07:42] <ochosi> oh right, hm, they obviously fixed file-roller showing a headerbar meanwhile (thanks Laney)
[07:46] <Unit193> Oh?
[07:46] <Unit193> \o/
[07:56] <ochosi> bluesabre: pushed a fix for the popovers in greybird and found that missing cog (that must've changed names somehow, cause it worked when file-roller still had a headerbar)
[07:57] <ochosi> since i did the release of greybird, quite a few patches have accumulated already...
[07:57] <ochosi> i guess i'll have to do a point release quite soon
[09:02] <lazybear_> hello, здесь кто-нибудь говорит по-русски?...
[09:03] <ochosi> not sure whether that's russian or some other slavic language, however we speak english in here
[09:03] <ochosi> !ru
[09:03] <ochosi> hrm
[09:12] <ochosi> elfy: btw, that problem with xfpm's settings not being applied to X11 was resolved by me resetting xfpm's settings in xfce4-settings-editor (right click the xfpm item in the left column and hit reset)
[09:15] <lazybear_> ty for help. I will join ru channel.
[10:37] <Unit193> apt-offline 1.6 uploaded to experimental: https://tracker.debian.org/news/671624
[11:41] <brainwash> ali1234: http://en.zimagez.com/zimage/sadface.php :(
[11:42] <ali1234> why you show me this?
[11:43] <brainwash> it's a nice picture of a broken root background
[11:43] <ali1234> it's a bug in whatever display manager is being used
[11:43] <ali1234> it's clearly not lightdm-gtk-greeter therefore it's not our problem
[11:44] <brainwash> so lightdm-gtk-greeter corrupts the background? it's fine while the the login screen is active, and breaks sometimes after login (~25%)
[11:44] <ali1234> no, lightdm-gtk-greeter does not corrupt the background
[11:45] <brainwash> it's xubuntu 15.04 + open source radeon driver
[11:45] <brainwash> I did not notice this in 14.04 or 14.10
[11:45] <ali1234> so it's a driver bug then
[11:46] <ali1234> why is there a picture of a clock in the bottom left corner?
[11:46] <brainwash> why the randomness? it works in most cases
[11:46] <brainwash> that's a custom panel setup
[11:47] <brainwash> if it happens randomly, then it should be fixable, or?
[11:47] <ali1234> sure. just fix the radeon driver
[11:47] <ali1234> or, preferably, stop buying AMD graphics hardware because it doesn't work properly
[11:47] <brainwash> it did before :/
[11:48] <brainwash> sad face
[11:49] <ali1234> none of the open source drivers is at all reliable
[11:49] <ali1234> intel driver has had a bug that corrupts the screen for years
[11:49] <ali1234> nouveau crashes constantly
[11:49] <brainwash> maybe radeon is now sharing bugs with nouveau (which corrupted the background in previous releases)
[11:50] <ali1234> probably
[11:50] <ali1234> try fglrx
[11:50] <brainwash> I will
[11:51] <ali1234> what do you see if you kill xfdesktop?
[11:52] <ali1234> please disable xfdesktop when testing because it also messes with the background
[11:54] <ali1234> actually xfdesktop might be the problem
[11:54] <brainwash> xfdesktop usually restores the background (picture). I test and disable it
[11:58] <ali1234> i think i might see the problem
[11:59] <brainwash> ali1234: I disabled xfdesktop and it still happens
[11:59] <ali1234> oh
[11:59] <ali1234> well does it stay after everything else loaded up?
[11:59] <brainwash> it happens with xfwm4 + built-in compositor and xfwm4 + compton
[11:59] <ali1234> what happens?
[11:59] <brainwash> yes, it stays broken/scrambled (without xfdesktop)
[12:00] <brainwash> the root background
[12:00] <ali1234> you can't see the root background when compositing is enabled
[12:00] <brainwash> it breaks immediately after the greeter disappears
[12:00] <ali1234> xfwm opens a fullscreen window with a copy of the real root background in it
[12:01] <ali1234> so the problem must be with the greeter then
[12:01] <brainwash> yes, the copied root background picture I meam
[12:01] <ali1234> and xfwm is just copying the garbage
[12:02] <brainwash> ah, yeah
[12:02] <brainwash> maybe something changed in the greeter code recently
[12:02] <ali1234> no
[12:02] <brainwash> some parts have been rewritten by the new maintainer
[12:03] <ali1234> which parts?
[12:03] <brainwash> no idea, but I will test an older version later
[12:03] <brainwash> the utopic one, or even trusty
[12:03] <brainwash> in vivid
[12:05] <ali1234> yes the greeter background code has been rewritten
[12:05] <ali1234> the retain permanent code has been totally removed
[12:05] <ali1234> so everyone will get this annoying shitty bug
[12:05] <ali1234> thanks, new maintainer
[12:06] <knome> tut tut
[12:07] <brainwash> ali1234: oh.. just tested without compositor and the bug was also triggered
[12:08] <ali1234> yes it would be
[12:08] <ali1234> the new code doesn't draw anything into the root window
[12:08] <brainwash> yeah, you've explained it
[12:08] <ali1234> so it's just full of garbage
[12:08] <brainwash> :(
[12:08] <ochosi> well, can be fixed easily thouh
[12:08] <ochosi> gh
[12:09] <brainwash> ali1234: are you going to file a bug report?
[12:09] <ali1234> yes
[12:10] <brainwash> ok, thanks
[12:10] <ochosi> ali1234: you can also just file a MR and i'll take care of that
[12:10] <ali1234> i don't even know where to start
[12:10] <ochosi> but yeah, in case you don't a report is probably good
[12:10] <ali1234> the retain permanent code is totally deleted
[12:10] <ochosi> then also link it to -v-bugs
[12:10] <ali1234> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~lightdm-gtk-greeter-team/lightdm-gtk-greeter/trunk/revision/295
[12:12] <slickymasterWork>  elfy, today's daily is uninstallable -> http://en.zimagez.com/zimage/ubiquity.php
[12:12] <slickymasterWork> the problem is with ubi-console-setup.py
[12:12] <ali1234> going for lunch then i will fix this
[12:13] <slickymasterWork> it works in live session though
[12:13] <ochosi> slickymasterWork: does the panel in ubiquity work as expected though?
[12:13] <slickymasterWork> nopes
[12:13] <ali1234> also if i find the greeter leaking pixmaps again i am going to be unhappy
[12:14] <slickymasterWork> I'm now trying to retrieve the content of /var/log/syslog
[12:42] <elfy> slickymasterWork: bug 1408495
[13:15] <brainwash> bluesabre, ochosi: new comments -> bugs 1307545
[13:15] <brainwash> b3nmore claims that the default value for logind-handle-lid-switch is wrong in utopic
[13:17] <brainwash> now with those new details we should be able to identify what's broken
[14:13] <ali1234> okay, the retain permanent stuff was moved to a different file
[14:13] <ali1234> but it doesn't work any more for some reason
[14:27] <ali1234> 19222 al        20   0 19.146g 9.908g   5512 S  10.3 63.2 299:00.22 mousepad
[14:27] <ali1234> i think we have a problem :(
[14:28] <ali1234> on the bright side at least the computer isn't totally dying as soon as i hit swap
[14:41] <ochosi> ali1234: tiny leaky-leak in mousepad? :}
[14:41] <ali1234> yeah, i dunno what happened
[14:41] <ochosi> maybe rename it to elephantpad then
[14:41] <ochosi> largest footprint in town!
[14:42] <ali1234> the weird thing is it wasn't growing
[14:42] <ochosi> really odd though, i presume you only opened text-documents with it
[14:42] <ali1234> and it's been like that for a couple of days
[14:42] <ali1234> i've been wondering why my computer is slow for about a week now
[14:43] <ochosi> hehe
[14:44] <ali1234> so i'm  looking at this lightdm code
[14:46] <ali1234> it looks reasonable but it doesn't work
[14:50] <ali1234> master doesn't even build
[14:50] <ali1234> ./configure: line 11669: syntax error near unexpected token `0.9.5'
[14:50] <ali1234> ./configure: line 11669: `GOBJECT_INTROSPECTION_CHECK(0.9.5)'
[14:54] <ali1234> i can't do anything until that is fixed
[15:56] <brainwash> ali1234: the greeter package in vivid is pretty outdated, so I've installed a newer one from the daily ppa (mid dec 2014)
[15:56] <brainwash> and the background is now fine
[15:58] <brainwash> now, apport detects some segfault with the newer build. I'll report it later
[15:58] <ali1234> i can't even get it to build
[15:58] <brainwash> I haven't tried yet
[15:59] <brainwash> but the daily ppa is pretty outdated (maybe there weren't any changes)
[16:01] <brainwash> can you confirm that there is some delay after pressing the login button? it takes like 4-5sec until the greeter screen is destroyed and the actual session loads
[16:01] <ali1234> no
[16:03] <brainwash> very odd, authentication should not take that long.. time to check the logs
[16:03] <brainwash> and test unity-greeter :D
[16:14] <brainwash> ali1234: restarting lightdm fixed it
[16:28] <ali1234> so what commit is the packaged version on?
[16:29] <ali1234> bug 1366534
[16:29] <ali1234> bug 1377743
[16:51] <elfy> ochosi: been getting this http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-140115-164821.php when coming back from lock screen
[16:51] <elfy> any idea? seen it before?
[16:51] <elfy> or indeed anyone else :)
[16:52] <slickymasterWork> haven't get that one yet elfy :P
[16:53] <slickymasterWork> s/get/got
[16:56] <ochosi> elfy: never seen that before
[16:56] <ochosi> happens with a clean user profile too?
[16:56] <elfy> hard to tell as it's not a constant
[16:56] <elfy> I couldn't lock now and be sure to see it
[17:01] <ochosi> okeydokey
[17:01] <ochosi> gotta run
[17:02] <ochosi> slickymasterWork: can't say for sure i'll make the meeting
[17:02] <ochosi> having unforeseen guests tonight
[17:02] <ochosi> bbl
[17:02] <slickymasterWork> ok ochosi
[17:02] <slickymasterWork> hf
[17:07] <elfy> forgot meeting tonight - got confused with the meeting tomorrow ...
[17:10] <slickymasterWork> som many meetings, so little time
[18:28] <fabio> xfce4-volumed: how to change the volume step size?+
[18:29] <fabio> perhaps using the same alsamixer scale that is more proportional
[18:51] <fabio> this is a big deal with large speakers
[18:56] <fabio> (too loud volume from a step to one more)
[18:57] <ali1234> why aren't you using indicator-sound?
[18:58] <elfy> would still do it in whatever incremement the system uses
[18:58] <elfy> I used to do it with amixer set
[18:58] <elfy> but now I just use the volume on the amp
[19:07] <fabio> alil1234 indicator-sound works only with mouse.. if i kill xfce4-volumed, the keyboard volume keys do not work anymore
[19:08] <fabio> works
[19:08] <ali1234> yeah, that's why the step is different
[19:09] <dkessel> please ping me too when the meeting starts - last time i missed most of it until i got a ping from someone halfway through it ;)
[19:10] <slickymasterWork> I'll do it dkessel ;)
[19:10] <elfy> so you should :p
[19:11] <dkessel> \o/
[19:11] <slickymasterWork> if I won't elfy will poke me for sure
[19:11] <elfy> positively
[19:11] <slickymasterWork> heh
[19:11] <slickymasterWork> heading home ->
[19:12] <elfy> yea ... running off more like
[21:48] <elfy> dkessel: 10 minute ish warning :)
[21:59] <slickymaster> !team | meeting time!
[21:59] <knome> oh, the meeting is this late
[21:59] <knome> i thought i already missed it ;)
[21:59] <elfy> nope
[21:59] <elfy> it's on the wiki :D
[21:59] <slickymaster> no you haven't :)
[21:59] <pleia2> o/
[21:59] <slickymaster> #startmeeting
[21:59] <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Jan 14 21:59:51 2015 UTC.  The chair is slickymaster. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[21:59] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[22:00] <slickymaster> Who's here for the meeting?
[22:00] <pleia2> o/
[22:00] <knome> o/
[22:00] <elfy> hobgoblin is
[22:00] <slickymaster> #chair knome pleia2 elfy
[22:00] <meetingology> Current chairs: elfy knome pleia2 slickymaster
[22:00] <dkessel> o/
[22:01] <slickymaster> Unit193, finished eating?
[22:01] <slickymaster> so
[22:01] <slickymaster> #topic Open action items
[22:01] <Unit193> slickymaster: Not started.
[22:01] <slickymaster> let's see
[22:01] <slickymaster> elfy ->  talk with dev people about releasing/not releasing a2
[22:02] <slickymaster> care to elaborate on that?
[22:02] <elfy> done - we're not
[22:02] <slickymaster> also elfy -> add proposed schedule to incentive pad (http://pad.ubuntu.com/QAIncentive)
[22:02] <elfy> done that
[22:02] <slickymaster> damn, you don't miss one ;)
[22:02] <pleia2> yes, thanks elfy!
[22:03] <elfy> pleia2: I thought I pinged you about that - sorry if I forgot
[22:03] <bluesabre> Hey all
[22:03] <slickymaster> I think that covers it all
[22:03] <elfy> hi bluesabre
[22:03] <pleia2> elfy: you did, I was in flu fugue state :)
[22:03] <slickymaster> hey bluesabre, welcome
[22:03] <slickymaster> moving on then
[22:03] <pleia2> (on the mend now)
[22:03] <elfy> pleia2: oh good - thought I'd forgotten to say
[22:04] <slickymaster> #topic Team updates
[22:04] <slickymaster> pleasi don't forget to use #info
[22:04] <slickymaster> anyone?
[22:04] <elfy> #info QA - nothing much done since last meeting
[22:04] <pleia2> #action pleia2 to draft stickers+incentives blog post for QA contributor giveaways
[22:04] <meetingology> ACTION: pleia2 to draft stickers+incentives blog post for QA contributor giveaways
[22:04] <slickymaster> knome, I think you have something
[22:04] <knome> slickymaster, yes, please give me some time ;)
[22:05] <slickymaster> okie doke
[22:05] <bluesabre> #info light-locker integration added to xfce4 power - manager
[22:05] <bluesabre> Giving up on trying to type with my phone keyboard...
[22:05] <slickymaster> lol
[22:05] <knome> #info knome worked on updating and improving the responsive design for documentation
[22:06] <pleia2> #info pleia2 firmed up Global Jam Xubuntu QA event at Gandi on Sunday, February 8th (2000 - 0100 UTC)
[22:06] <pleia2> would be nice to have some folks lurking around here so I can have people join and ask where to submit bugs ;)
[22:06] <knome> #info knome looked at exporting docbook to pdf - exports look pretty bare/bad and images are not working correctly; the exports might not be worth it since doing that requires substantially more dependencies
[22:06] <pleia2> also introduce the newcomers to some Xubuntu devs (make sure you don't bite them)
[22:06] <slickymaster> I'm inclined to agree with you knome
[22:07] <slickymaster> on the conversion
[22:07] <Unit193> #info light-locker-settings removed from the seed.
[22:07] <bluesabre> Yay
[22:07] <knome> #info knome and pleia2 added press/marketing contact information to xubuntu.org
[22:07] <pleia2> #action pleia2 to update docs.xubuntu.org, knome has updated the bzr repo
[22:07] <meetingology> ACTION: pleia2 to update docs.xubuntu.org, knome has updated the bzr repo
[22:07] <knome> #info knome has worked hard on refreshing the website looks to match 2015/the OS
[22:08] <knome> #info knome created a page with all mirrors mirroring xubuntu ISOs
[22:08] <slickymaster> busy bee
[22:08] <knome> #info mirror.anl.gov (our preferred US mirror) is shutting down services on feb 1, we need to list another US mirror
[22:09] <knome> #info knome finalized and copied a better looking mailman info page to -devel and -users
[22:09] <knome> #action pleia2 to copy mailman info page assets under static.xubuntu.org
[22:09] <meetingology> ACTION: pleia2 to copy mailman info page assets under static.xubuntu.org
[22:10] <knome> #info knome cleaned up the processes wiki page, organizing stuff under subpages; feedback welcome on irc/mailing list
[22:10] <pleia2> knome: I forget, is static.x.o stuff in a bzr repo? maybe it should be
[22:10] <pleia2> I think it's not
[22:10] <knome> pleia2, i'll set that up
[22:10] <pleia2> thanks
[22:10] <slickymaster> I did like the new layout of the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Processes page
[22:10] <knome> #action knome to set up a repository for static.xubuntu.org content
[22:10] <meetingology> ACTION: knome to set up a repository for static.xubuntu.org content
[22:10] <knome> hmm, i think that's it for now for my updates
[22:10] <pleia2> me too
[22:10] <slickymaster> is not so dense/heavy now
[22:11] <knome> yep, it's definitely an improvement
[22:11] <slickymaster> anything else?
[22:11] <knome> and i'll update it with the qa stuff once i find it on my email
[22:11] <knome> /hd
[22:11] <slickymaster> going once
[22:11] <knome> as i said, from me yes
[22:12] <slickymaster> going twice
[22:12] <slickymaster> ok
[22:12] <slickymaster> #topic Announcements
[22:12] <slickymaster> nothing from me
[22:12] <bluesabre> Nothing here at the time
[22:13] <elfy> First milestone we'll take part in is Beta 1 wk 18
[22:14] <slickymaster> ok team, please be sure to take an active stand on the testing side of B1
[22:14] <pleia2> or sooner :)
[22:14] <elfy> bluesabre: while that reminds me - any plans to drag anything from staging into default pre-Beta
[22:15] <slickymaster> I presume you'll be mailing everyone (ML) prior to it elfy
[22:15] <elfy> oh - there is the Community Council meeting tomorrow btw
[22:15] <elfy> slickymaster: ofc
[22:15] <slickymaster> :)
[22:15] <Unit193> I've already done all the testing upgrades I have.
[22:15] <elfy> ty :)
[22:15] <slickymaster> CC meeting at what time and channel elfy?
[22:15] <pleia2> 1700 #ubuntu-meeting
[22:15] <elfy> -meeting 1700UTC
[22:15] <elfy> ha
[22:16] <bluesabre> Elfy: stable releases and any patches we want to carry. Will work with Unit193 and ochosi
[22:16] <elfy> beat you :D
[22:16] <slickymaster> thanks for the heads up on that
[22:16] <pleia2> elfy: I'm just happy we agree
[22:16] <elfy> bluesabre: ok :)
[22:16] <elfy> pleia2: lol
[22:16] <pleia2> it's been a long week :)
[22:16] <slickymaster> and we're only half way through it pleia2 :P
[22:16] <pleia2> indeed
[22:16] <slickymaster> alrighty
[22:17] <elfy> not here - weekend starts tomorrow lunch time :D
[22:17] <knome> pleia2, is it too much to ask to tar the current assets somewhere?
[22:17] <pleia2> knome: can do, sec
[22:17] <knome> ta
[22:17] <slickymaster> #topic Discussion
[22:17] <elfy> shall rattle on a bit about newish things
[22:17] <slickymaster> #subtopic Discuss replacing gnome-calculator with galculator (to get rid of CSD)
[22:18] <slickymaster> it's still in the agenda
[22:18] <elfy> I thought this was now nothing to worry about?
[22:18] <knome> i thought it was ok as well
[22:18] <elfy> still no idea what csd is
[22:18] <slickymaster> it wasn't removed from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meeting so I thought it was still an open item
[22:19] <Unit193> Doesn't look OK here, but maybe it will later...
[22:19] <bluesabre> Yeah, I think the Ubuntu team is continuing to add patches to get rid of csd
[22:19] <elfy> no idea - forgotten - and I still don't know what csd is
[22:19] <elfy> so I would say leave it be :p
[22:19] <slickymaster> lol, will someone explain it, pretty please
[22:20] <slickymaster> Unit193, bluesabre ^^
[22:20] <bluesabre> "Client Side Decorations"
[22:20] <slickymaster> thanks
[22:20] <Unit193> Which means the application can decide what it's menus and stuff look like, not the window manager.
[22:20] <bluesabre> Basically applications are composited on their own instead of by xfwm, so it messes up integration and causes issues
[22:21] <elfy> aah ok - thanks :)
[22:22] <elfy> wasn't something else the *same* ?
[22:22] <bluesabre> Xfce had acceptable support for it now, but it can still be a headache
[22:22] <knome> fwiw, branch for static assets set up (not updated for new stuff yet)
[22:22] <pleia2> thanks knome
[22:22] <slickymaster> thanks knome
[22:23] <pleia2> just a general discussion thing, I'm a bit over-committed this cycle between Real Job and other things, if anyone has interest in marketing blueprint things (like picking up with surveys) please jump in, I might not get to them
[22:24] <pleia2> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-v-marketing
[22:24] <elfy> looking
[22:24]  * slickymaster also
[22:24] <knome> pleia2, i just marked one of your items to DONE today ;)
[22:24] <elfy> I could find some time given that qa is taking so much of my time this cycle
[22:25] <pleia2> I thought I wouldn't travel as much, but it turns out I really like airplanes
[22:25] <pleia2> knome: yeah!
[22:25] <elfy> pleia2: wing me what you have for the user survey 1 and I'll have a look
[22:25] <knome> i won't promise anything, but i'll be working with the flyers anyway, so getting those printed might be done by somebody else than you
[22:25] <slickymaster> knome, haven't you already sorted out the alignment for printing?
[22:25] <knome> slickymaster, mostly, see the whiteboard
[22:25] <elfy> given that it's in progress
[22:25] <slickymaster> ok
[22:26] <pleia2> elfy: http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-user-identifies-as
[22:26] <pleia2> elfy: our last discussion on it went bikeshed, so I lost all energy
[22:26] <knome> :(
[22:26] <knome> i'm sorry
[22:26] <elfy> yea - kind of saw that
[22:26] <elfy> pleia2: I'll see if I can move it on
[22:27] <elfy> blueprinted me for those 2
[22:27] <pleia2> knome: no one's fault, I don't know what I'm doing survey-wise so it's hard to argue my simple-is-good points :)
[22:27] <knome> heh
[22:27] <pleia2> thanks elfy
[22:27] <elfy> welcome - might motivate me a bit more than I am atm :)
[22:28] <knome> linked the survey pad ot the whiteboard for future reference
[22:28] <slickymaster> go elfy go elfy go elfy
[22:28] <slickymaster> good idea knome
[22:28] <bluesabre> brb
[22:28]  * slickymaster usually spends some time looking for the pad's urls
[22:29]  * elfy doesn't - or just looks in his index of stuff :D
[22:30] <slickymaster> anything else anyone wants to throw to the table?
[22:31] <slickymaster> ok, this one was a short one
[22:31] <slickymaster> #action pleia2 to schedule next meeting
[22:31] <meetingology> ACTION: pleia2 to schedule next meeting
[22:31] <elfy> yea
[22:31] <slickymaster> #endmeeting
[22:31] <meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Jan 14 22:31:35 2015 UTC.
[22:31] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2015/xubuntu-devel.2015-01-14-21.59.moin.txt
[22:31] <elfy> sorry and all that :)
[22:31] <pleia2> aw man
[22:31] <elfy> oh good lord
[22:31] <slickymaster> lol
[22:31] <elfy> bad slickymaster :|
[22:31] <elfy> :p
[22:31] <slickymaster> no escape pleia2
[22:32] <pleia2> :)
[22:32] <knome> i'll do pleia2's meeting
[22:32] <slickymaster> now to fight the wiki
[22:32] <elfy> bluesabre: one of the things that maybe we could look at - the imgur in screenshots that Unit193 has - really like that
[22:32] <knome> pleia2, that is, if you don't necessarily want to do it...
[22:32] <pleia2> knome: thanks, it's ok, I'll do it :)
[22:33] <knome> oki
[22:33] <bluesabre> back
[22:33] <knome> as you wish
[22:33] <pleia2> will have to be next week though, because then fosdem
[22:33] <bluesabre> elfy: that does sound like a good one
[22:33] <knome> next week sounds fair, not again too many updates ;)
[22:34] <elfy> bluesabre: yea - but mostly what I was getting at was mousepad seems to be a bit more *advanced* in staging than the dev version - don't use parole enough to notice
[22:35] <elfy> but getting as many of those things in before 23rd February means they'd be there for B1
[22:35] <bluesabre> yeah, I think (hopefully) we'll have a new stable mousepad soon... the -staging one is pretty great compared to whats in the archive
[22:35] <elfy> and as well as pointing testers at milestones we can ALSO point them at those things
[22:35] <elfy> ofc - if they're in before - we can just point people at those - BUT
[22:36] <elfy> I'd like enough notice to be able to get the testcases updated :D
[22:36] <bluesabre> looks like feature freeze is feb 23, so we'll start pushing now
[22:36] <knome> yay
[22:36] <bluesabre> woops
[22:36] <bluesabre> feb 19
[22:36] <knome> heh
[22:36] <knome> just enough time anyway
[22:36] <elfy> bluesabre: oh - yea ofc - so week before B1 :)
[22:37] <pleia2> I'll be in Oman
[22:37] <knome> D:
[22:37] <elfy> that imgur thing's probably the thing I've missed most since the clean install I did last week
[22:37] <pleia2> :D
[22:37] <elfy> not got Unit193's ppa in yet
[22:37] <knome> pleia2, o
[22:37] <knome> eh
[22:37] <pleia2> coming home on the 20th though
[22:37] <bluesabre> D:D
[22:37] <elfy> pleia2: not an excuse :D
[22:37] <knome> pleia2, "o'man", says i
[22:37] <pleia2> haha
[22:38] <bluesabre> nice
[22:38] <knome> pleia2, just at the right time to write release notes!
[22:38] <pleia2> haha
[22:38] <elfy> dkessel: just a quick one - there are autopilot things on QA blueprint - do they need to be postponed?
[22:42] <slickymaster> minutes are (finally) up
[22:43] <elfy> that's quicker than I do them
[22:43] <slickymaster> wiki was on my side today elfy
[22:43] <bluesabre> stepping away for dinner, bbiab
[22:43] <dkessel> elfy: there is a 50% chance they need to be, i say
[22:43] <slickymaster> enjoy bluesabre
[22:44] <elfy> dkessel: ok - well I'm kinda cool with you just taking the time tbh - would be really nice to get them for the next LTS perhaps
[22:45] <elfy> so - mark them postponed if you need - I'll certainly not get in the way of you doing it :)
[22:45] <dkessel> Okidokey
[22:46] <elfy> might be time to try and do another mailing list post for it - I can imagine being the only person looking to be quite daunting
[22:46] <slickymaster> FWIW, I removed the item about replacing gnome-calculator with galculator from the discussion topic
[22:46] <elfy> and I do apologise that I can't help and that it's all voodoo to me :(
[22:48] <brainwash> should gnome-mines be replaced too? I noticed that it uses CSD too now
[22:49] <elfy> I'd lose games completely given the chance
[22:49] <brainwash> you can't do that!
[22:49] <slickymaster> +1 on that
[22:50] <elfy> +1 on can't or doing it ?
[22:50] <brainwash> no games? should the user play some bad browser games instead? flash ones? :>
[22:50] <slickymaster> getting rid of them
[22:59] <Unit193> What's new in mousepad then?
[22:59] <Unit193> elfy: That's a git snapshot, older one now, they want to release and just need nick to give them the permission so it should be released soon.
[22:59] <elfy> Unit193: imgur?
[23:00] <Unit193> Yep.
[23:00] <elfy> Unit193: mousepad from my perspective is mostly enhanced menu options - obviously a text editor is a text editor
[23:01] <elfy> as gnome options go down ... xfce go up lol
[23:02] <Unit193> Hah. :D
[23:09] <knome> elfy, good news, found the qa process stuff while waiting for PS to work ;)
[23:09] <knome> elfy, dropping games - exactly what i was thinking the other day
[23:09] <knome> shipping games is so 90's
[23:09] <knome> and the fact is that most people play browser games anyway
[23:10] <slickymaster> or console ones
[23:10] <knome> yep
[23:10] <slickymaster> I would be +1 on dropping them
[23:10] <drc> Unless you ship Gargoyle (for Interactive Fiction), which is so 80's :)
[23:10] <knome> and legacy gamers probably enjoy playing stuff with emulators anyway
[23:10] <elfy> the way I see it is - there's only likely to be people like me who want solitaire
[23:11] <knome> elfy, in that case they can install it
[23:11] <slickymaster> drc we'd have to create a mullet section for the 80s ganes ;)
[23:11] <knome> elfy, games aren't critical for production environments without online connectivity
[23:11] <elfy> knome: yea - that's my point
[23:11] <knome> yep.
[23:11] <elfy> if I have to install something I use - I can install something I don't ... :)
[23:12] <knome> heh
[23:12] <elfy> and ...
[23:13] <elfy> NEXT cycle - because you've not got rid of me yet - remove abiword and gnumeric and install something else
[23:14] <knome> or drop and don't replace
[23:14]  * knome hides
[23:14] <slickymaster> you're only going to be allowed to leave after the next LTS elfy
[23:14] <elfy> I mean - use abiword - which one first use - spawns new ones if you've not got the mouse in the right place
[23:14] <elfy> come on ...
[23:14] <elfy> slickymaster: I'm off Feb 2016
[23:14] <elfy> oh whoops - is that mid-cycle?
[23:14] <brainwash> how about replacing apps with web links for online apps? :D
[23:15]  * knome sighs at client work
[23:15] <slickymaster> we won't let you and will hunt you down
[23:15] <elfy> brainwash: how about not :)
[23:15] <brainwash> it's the future!
[23:15] <elfy> knome: that's the nature of self-employment
[23:15] <knome> no
[23:15] <knome> that's the nature of WORK :|
[23:16] <elfy> brainwash: yep - the UK is going to superfast broadband - that actually really means 2 mb/s or whatever
[23:16] <knome> haha
[23:16] <elfy> knome: you laugh - I'm serious :(
[23:16] <knome> and my 3Mbps upload speed actually means "somewhere along 2Mbps"
[23:16] <slickymaster> lamo
[23:16] <elfy> that's their idea of it
[23:16] <drc> less the overhead for serveillence and backdoors.
[23:17] <knome> otoh "A super-fast 100Mbps line" on the competitor means "You'll get maybe 8Mbps and it's more unreliable than the local post office"
[23:18]  * knome picks smaller ISP with their own backbone, sooo much more reliable
[23:21] <elfy> here - the infrastructure belongs to BT - everyone else rents
[23:21] <knome> that's how it used to be until late too
[23:21] <elfy> so - buy what you like, but if there's an issue - you talk to your supplier who talks to them
[23:21] <knome> now we have that one other considerable ISP with their backbone
[23:21] <elfy> knome: yea - when I was a kid - it all belonged to us
[23:22] <elfy> then politics
[23:22] <knome> well, yeah, one company owns the connection centers in each house
[23:22] <knome> so kind of same
[23:22] <knome> but if the backbone breaks, then the ISP can do something
[23:22] <knome> mum's internet was down for a few days last year or so
[23:22] <knome> because somebody had misconnected stuff
[23:22] <knome> not ISPs fault
[23:22] <knome> and when i first got my new connection from this ISP
[23:23] <knome> it took like months
[23:23] <knome> because the company who owns the connection boxes didn't do their work
[23:23] <knome> but fair enough, i didn't pay for anything for that time, nor the first two connected weeks
[23:25] <bluesabre> I'd be +1 for getting rid of games from default install
[23:26] <elfy> that's almost good then
[23:26] <slickymaster> at least we could discuss it in the next meeting
[23:26] <elfy> I'd swap games for imgur :D
[23:27] <elfy> I'll add it
[23:27] <slickymaster> ok
[23:27] <knome> elfy, hah
[23:28] <elfy> there we go
[23:28] <elfy> slipped a bit


[09:08] <Hybrid512> o/
[09:08] <Hybrid512> I have some questions about ways to optimize the deploy process with Juju
[09:10] <Hybrid512> I mean, Juju works great but I have a huge deployment that I split in parts using overlays and when adding new apps/units, it can take a long time before a new LXD container is started even though there is no load pressure on the hosts
[09:11] <Hybrid512> sometimes I deploy maybe 2 or 3 apps at once with 3 units each but it gives me the impression that juju deploy apps one after the other waiting for the firt to come up before spinning the other and that wastes a lot of time for apps that are not always related
[09:13] <Hybrid51227> are there any options that can be tuned to make juju a little faster ?
[15:11] <viswa> I need help on MaaS proxy - I configured MAAS with Peer Proxy enabled and see squid proxy is running; and I also see all the managed machines were up and updated; now on running apps; The app installation fails saying unable to download the image; I was able to download the image If I login to the machine and run the same command but the app fails
[15:11] <viswa> on running - juju deploy <app>
[15:13] <viswa> juju model-config is showing the right proxy configured for http, https, snap and no-proxy.
[16:40] <viswa> I need help on MaaS proxy - I configured MAAS with Peer Proxy enabled and see squid proxy is running; and I also see all the managed machines were up and updated; now on running apps; The app installation fails saying unable to download the image; I was able to download the image If I login to the machine and run the same command but the app fails
[16:40] <viswa> on running - juju deploy <app>
[16:40] <viswa> juju model-config is showing the right proxy configured for http, https, snap and no-proxy.
[16:43] <achilleasa_> viswa: can you clarify what you mean by image?
[16:44] <viswa> I am running juju deploy rabbitmq-server and I found that in the log and juju status saying trying to download the lxd image and it is failing in downloading it.If I am right that is ubuntu:focal image to bring the rabbitmq-server is failing
[16:47] <viswa> achilleasa_ I wish I answered your question
[16:49] <achilleasa_> viswa: when you configured you model, did you also provide a juju-http-proxy/juju-https-proxy value?
[16:49] <viswa> yes and I could see them in juju model-config too
[16:50] <achilleasa_> note that there is both an http-proxy and a juju-http-proxy setting
[16:50] <viswa> may I know what is the command to see juju-http-proxy setting
[16:52] <achilleasa_> so basically, when you bootstrap you just need to pass '--config juju-http-proxy=X' '--config juju-https-proxy-X'
[16:53] <achilleasa_> when you run `juju model-config` you should see a value there
[16:53] <achilleasa_> also, you mentioned that if you ssh in the box you can successfully 'lxc launch' things?
[16:53] <viswa> achilleasa_ I do see this in Ubunut
[16:53] <viswa> These Juju-specific proxy settings are incompatible with the four corresponding legacy proxy settings described in earlier sections. Data validation is enabled to prevent collisions from occurring.
[16:53] <viswa> Reference - https://discourse.charmhub.io/t/offline-mode-strategies/1071
[16:54] <achilleasa_> I think you bootstrapped with the 'http-proxy' setting instead of 'juju-http-proxy'
[16:54] <viswa> achilleasa_ I was able to successfully run command lxc launch on running manually
[16:54] <achilleasa_> would it be possible to bootstrap again but this time use the juju-prefixed value?
[16:55] <achilleasa_> and inside the box, if you 'env | grep proxy' do you see the URL for squid?
[16:55] <viswa> achilleasa_ Sure I will do that
[16:56] <viswa> so I don't want to have http-proxy or https-proxy during bootstrap rather I need to have juju-http-proxy and juju-https-proxy
[16:56] <achilleasa_> yes, that one supersedes the plain one AFAICT
[16:56] <achilleasa_> one sec, let me double-check that
[16:57] <viswa> Coo! I could see http_proxy and https_proxy on env
[16:57] <viswa> pls let me know so that I will do bootstrap again
[16:57] <achilleasa_> yes, the juju-http(s)-proxy ones seem like the way to go
[16:59] <achilleasa_> not 100% sure if needed but you may also have to pass the proxy address as a 'juju-no-proxy' setting (you can set that post bootstrap)
[16:59] <vultaire> Hi - Just wanted to ask, is there any sort of graphviz-like tool for rendering Juju bundles visually?  I've been playing with the generatesvg.go tool in jujusvg, but it depends on gui-x/gui-y annotations.  If I want to quickly visualize a bundle exported from a cloud, well, that doesn't seem to work well for that case.
[17:04] <viswa> achilleasa_ I will do that
[17:31] <achilleasa> viswa: just tried it and it works for me with juju-htt(s)-proxy. I added squid's IP (which is the same as the lxd remote IP that I was testing on) as juju-no-proxy
[17:32] <achilleasa> also, can you please double-check your squid configuration to make sure that it's ACL doesn't block requests to the lxd image repository?
[17:49] <viswa> achilleasa do we need to provision the machine after adding proxy in juju model-configu
[17:49] <viswa> or juju automatically push the proxy configuraiton to the machine by the time I run juju model-config
[17:50] <achilleasa> no, the machine agent will do that for you a few moments after you change any of the proxy settings
[17:50] <achilleasa> if you juju debug-log you will spot a message where it lets you know that the proxy settings have been updated
[17:55] <viswa> achilleasa install hook failed saying proxy authenticaiton required on running debug-log
[19:58] <d4rks1d3> Hi
[20:22] <d4rks1d3> I am trying to understand how to do a juju charm, Someone can explain me what is the main difference between @hook('amqp-relation-joined') @when('endpoint.amqp.joined') ? There are some points that I am using when and when_not however with hooks is not triggering the funcion. Thanks for your help


 :D
[00:00] <cprofitt> #startmeeting
[00:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 18:00. The chair is cprofitt.
[00:00] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[00:00] <cprofitt> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings
[00:00] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings
[00:00] <cprofitt> meeting url
[00:00] <cprofitt> for agenda
[00:00] <cprofitt> welcome to the UBT team meeting
[00:00] <cprofitt> all UBT members who are here please say present
[00:01] <MrChrisDruif> gift
[00:01] <cprofitt> all UBT members who are here please say present
[00:01] <tenach> present.
[00:01] <MrChrisDruif> Presen
[00:01] <MrChrisDruif> t
[00:02] <cprofitt> well... this does not appear to be a good turnout
[00:02] <MrChrisDruif> Hmmm, not really no
[00:02] <tenach> :
[00:02] <tenach> :/
[00:02] <ddecator> present
[00:03] <MrChrisDruif> Including chair 4 people?
[00:03] <cprofitt> yes
[00:04] <cprofitt> Lets give another few minutes for folks to show up
[00:04] <cprofitt> one more
[00:04] <charlie-tca> present
[00:05] <cprofitt> two more
[00:05] <cprofitt> welcome jledbetter and charlie-tca
[00:05]  * jledbetter waves. Sorry, work, etc.
[00:05] <cprofitt> no problem
[00:05] <MrChrisDruif> Alright, no problem jledbetter :)
[00:05] <cprofitt> well,... lets get the meeting off the ground
[00:06] <cprofitt> I will skep the first proposed topic as none of the new council members appear to be present
[00:06] <cprofitt> [TOPIC] new Documentation FG lead
[00:06] <MootBot> New Topic:  new Documentation FG lead
[00:07] <cprofitt> The council has acted to temporarily fill the vacany in the Documentation Team with UndiFineD
[00:07] <cprofitt> He will fill the role of team lead until we hold an election
[00:07] <cprofitt> UndiFineD: is eligible to run for the position
[00:07] <MrChrisDruif> Who was the previous Doc Lead?
[00:08] <cprofitt> zkriesse
[00:08] <MrChrisDruif> Alright :)
[00:08] <ddecator> sounds good to me
[00:08] <cprofitt> the next topic was UndiFineD's topic
[00:08] <cprofitt> there was quite an extensive discussion on the mailing list about various parts of it
[00:08] <cprofitt> [TOPIC] Improving the BT
[00:08] <MootBot> New Topic:  Improving the BT
[00:09]  * ddecator wonders if he's not on the ML for some reason
[00:09] <cprofitt> I think that as a team we will have to break each element down (on the mailing list) and then work towards having a poll to move forward with a team vote
[00:10] <cprofitt> the issues revolve around some negative conotations concerning the words padawan and master
[00:10] <MrChrisDruif> Team vote with 6 present?
[00:10] <cprofitt> and the relative lack of structure for membership
[00:10] <cprofitt> we will not vote here
[00:10] <cprofitt> we have not settled on what to vote for
[00:10] <cprofitt> I do want to frame the discussion a bit
[00:11] <cprofitt> I do not want to remove 'fun' from being on the team -- we are volunteers
[00:11] <MrChrisDruif> Agreed
[00:11] <cprofitt> I do not like that our current choice of labels apparently causes some offense
[00:11] <ddecator> so the idea is to formalize the process more?
[00:11] <cprofitt> so I think it would be good to gather some fun alternative names we could use
[00:11] <cprofitt> in place of Master / Padawan
[00:11] <jledbetter> fun, hehe
[00:12] <cprofitt> to be honest the whole concept of master / padawan is really not needed -- to me any member should be capable of guiding another person to be a member
[00:12] <cprofitt> it just takes a bit of time and knolwedge
[00:12] <cprofitt> but I can appreciate the enjoyment factor of having titles
[00:12] <MrChrisDruif> cprofitt: Yes, but not everybody wants to take time to do this. I liked having one fixed person
[00:13] <cprofitt> so I would like to ask everyone to research some 'titles' we can use w/o removing the fun
[00:13] <MrChrisDruif> I could talk to when I had questions
[00:13] <cprofitt> MrChrisDruif: I agree we need a one to one relationship
[00:13] <DarkwingDuck> lo
[00:13] <MrChrisDruif> I liked the Guide mentioned in the mailing-list
[00:13] <MrChrisDruif> Hai DarkwingDuck
[00:13] <jledbetter> Ditto on guide. That's not "fun" though but I like it all the same:)
[00:13] <MrChrisDruif> However...Student doesn't do it for me
[00:14] <cprofitt> [action] consider alternative names -- gather some options and suggest them on the mailing list with an eye towards voting next meeting
[00:14] <ddecator> Guide and Apprentice
[00:14] <MootBot> ACTION received:  consider alternative names -- gather some options and suggest them on the mailing list with an eye towards voting next meeting
[00:14] <jledbetter> cprofitt, Should we mail the list with potential titles? If so, by when?
[00:14] <MrChrisDruif> It refers to much to school
[00:14] <jledbetter> nm :)
[00:14] <MrChrisDruif> ddecator: +1
[00:14] <charlie-tca> beginner; noobie
[00:14] <tenach> ddecator: I like that.
[00:14] <cprofitt> as far as teh suggested timeline and structure...
[00:14]  * MrChrisDruif suggested it already on the mailing-list ;)
[00:14] <cprofitt> I have to say that we are a team of volunteers
[00:15] <cprofitt> some of us have families, jobs and other obligations and those should be respected
[00:15] <cprofitt> and all levels of participation should be appreciated
[00:15] <ddecator> aye
[00:15] <charlie-tca> +1
[00:15] <cprofitt> that said I do like the idea of developing a simple checklist of the basics
[00:16] <cprofitt> but the basics have never really been an issue...
[00:16] <cprofitt> it is the contributions / involvement in the community that is difficult to see at times
[00:16] <MrChrisDruif> I had a checklist when I was an Apprentice
[00:16] <ddecator> mainly because it can happen anywhere and we're not everywhere (individually)
[00:16]  * cprofitt nods
[00:16] <cprofitt> +1 ddecator
[00:17] <MrChrisDruif> Support on IRC is difficult to measure
[00:17] <MrChrisDruif> Gave me some trouble getting membership :P
[00:17] <cprofitt> I do feel that having prospective members have to document their activity -- add examples to their wiki or get testimonials to be a worthwhile exercise
[00:18] <cprofitt> as it prepares them if they wish to eventually pursue Ubuntu Memberships
[00:18] <ddecator> plus it promotes good wiki hygiene
[00:18] <cprofitt> ddecator: +1
[00:18] <MrChrisDruif> Indeed
[00:18] <MrChrisDruif> But some people love to edit their wiki and others just want to help
[00:19] <ddecator> adding examples to your wiki page shouldn't take long
[00:19] <cprofitt> I think we can vote on having structure -- and have the council work with the team to create a bit more structure
[00:19] <MrChrisDruif> And, again, putting IRC support on wiki is kinda tricky :P
[00:19] <ddecator> MrChrisDruif: true, but worst case, many of us log the channel and can grep the logs if we're skeptical
[00:19] <cprofitt> I do think that we need to tell people who give IRC support how they could document that...
[00:20] <cprofitt> there are areas that are difficult... and if we want them to count we need to give a guide on how to show that activity
[00:20] <cprofitt> any other comments on that?
[00:20] <ddecator> none so far
[00:21] <DarkwingDuck> documenting people you helped in IRC is hard
[00:21] <cprofitt> [vote]The UBT Countil in conjunction with the team should develop a potential structure docmuent for prospective members to follow. This document would then be adopted by a vote in a future meeting
[00:21] <MootBot> Please vote on: The UBT Countil in conjunction with the team should develop a potential structure docmuent for prospective members to follow. This document would then be adopted by a vote in a future meeting.
[00:21] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[00:21] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[00:21] <DarkwingDuck> documenting issues you helped with is simplier
[00:21] <cprofitt> +1
[00:21] <MootBot> +1 received from cprofitt. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[00:22] <charlie-tca> +1
[00:22] <MootBot> +1 received from charlie-tca. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[00:22] <MrChrisDruif> +1
[00:22] <MootBot> +1 received from MrChrisDruif. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
[00:22] <ddecator> +1
[00:22] <MootBot> +1 received from ddecator. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
[00:22] <DarkwingDuck> +1
[00:22] <MootBot> +1 received from DarkwingDuck. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
[00:22] <jledbetter> +1
[00:22] <MootBot> +1 received from jledbetter. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
[00:22] <cprofitt> any more votes?
[00:22] <cprofitt> last call for votes
[00:22] <MrChrisDruif> Note: correct spelling of course ;)
[00:22] <cprofitt> [endvote]
[00:22] <MootBot> Final result is 6 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 6
[00:22] <jledbetter> hehe MrChrisDruif
[00:23] <cprofitt> [agreed]The UBT Countil in conjunction with the team should develop a potential structure docmuent for prospective members to follow. This document would then be adopted by a vote in a future meeting
[00:23] <MootBot> AGREED received: The UBT Countil in conjunction with the team should develop a potential structure docmuent for prospective members to follow. This document would then be adopted by a vote in a future meeting
[00:23] <cprofitt> any other topics?
[00:24] <ddecator> have a happy natty release everyone :)
[00:24] <DarkwingDuck> hehe
[00:24] <cprofitt> I do want to point out, as it has been an issue for some, that the vote we just took authorized the council to do some work. The council does not make decisions unless the team authorized it
[00:25] <cprofitt> alright since we have no more topics... I would like to go back to an original topic since DarkwingDuck is here
[00:25] <cprofitt> [topic]New council members - plans
[00:25] <MootBot> New Topic: New council members - plans
[00:25] <cprofitt> DarkwingDuck: please tell us some of your plans for the UBT
[00:25] <cprofitt> or things you would like to see
[00:26] <DarkwingDuck> well, ever since the Natty UDS i have wanted to see better interaction with the "main" devel teams in Ubuntu
[00:26] <MrChrisDruif> The document (which will me made with help from the team) will only be adopted with a vote. It was properly defined the vote :)
[00:26] <DarkwingDuck> either in docs, motu and others
[00:27] <ddecator> i wonder if our collaboration with the bugsquad can act as a guinea pig for this
[00:27]  * DarkwingDuck nods
[00:27] <DarkwingDuck> im also in fairly deep with the guys who write the system docs
[00:28] <DarkwingDuck> not just kin kubuntu but all the docs
[00:28] <ddecator> that'd be a good thing for beginners to get involved with
[00:29] <DarkwingDuck> as a member of the documentation committers i would be more then happy to review and approve patches or docs
[00:29] <MrChrisDruif> system docs? As in man pages with programs?
[00:29] <DarkwingDuck> but, the intergration and maybe becoming a "traiining ground" is something i can see us doing
[00:29]  * ddecator nods
[00:29] <cprofitt> DarkwingDuck: sounds like we need to get the Doc Committer team lead to approve you as a Mentor for documentation FG
[00:30] <DarkwingDuck> MrChrisDruif: and the help files that ship with the system
[00:31] <DarkwingDuck> cprofitt: im game now that the doc freeze for natty is in effect
[00:32] <DarkwingDuck> but, my plans are to take what ive learned in other teams and seeing how we can train people to move beyond the BT scope
[00:32] <MrChrisDruif> Good plan DarkwingDuck
[00:32] <ddecator> +1
[00:32] <DarkwingDuck> and maybe even have new people who goto bug squad or motu teams get sent to us for training
[00:32]  * MrChrisDruif is distracted by #lubuntu channel
[00:33] <DarkwingDuck> there is an untapped potential for training here and we are in the perfect position
[00:33] <DarkwingDuck> to fill a small void
[00:34] <DarkwingDuck> the BT helped me get ready for teams with deadlines and i think i can help pass that on
[00:35] <DarkwingDuck> small dreams. :) back to you cprofitt
[00:36] <cprofitt> thanks DarkwingDuck
[00:36] <MrChrisDruif> The whole of Ubuntu is deadline based
[00:36] <cprofitt> alright... I would like to thank everyone who attended the meeting tonight
[00:36] <DarkwingDuck> aye
[00:36] <cprofitt> Have a great night everyone
[00:36] <cprofitt> [endmeeting]
[00:36] <MrChrisDruif> Thanks cprofitt :)
[00:36] <cprofitt> #endmeeting
[00:36] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 18:36.
[00:36] <jledbetter> cprofitt, Thank you :)
[00:41] <DarkwingDuck> ?
[16:03] <robbiew> o/
[16:03] <barry> hi
[16:03] <mvo> hello
[16:04] <doko> hi
[16:04] <stgraber> hello
[16:04] <doko> was there a mumble before? didn't hear anything
[16:04] <stgraber> doko: yep
[16:04] <robbiew> doko: yup
[16:04] <robbiew> #startmeeting
[16:04] <MootBot> Meeting started at 10:04. The chair is robbiew.
[16:04] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[16:05] <robbiew> [TOPIC] Lightning Round
[16:05] <MootBot> New Topic:  Lightning Round
[16:06] <robbiew> barry?
[16:06] <barry> bug 748104 (django-ajax-selects ftbfs), bug 748089 (gmobilemedia ftbfs), bug 727649 (matplotlib ftbfs), bug 747236 and bug 719211 (apache-openid ftbfs & conversion to dh_python2), bug 717843 (python-imaging crasher), bug 752220 (aptdaemon import error), bug 759205 and bug 691841 (lazr.restful), bug 758037 (pyopenssl fix); python issue 11715 (python build on multiarch), pep 396; udd stakeholders meeting; app developer week class on
[16:06] <barry> unittesting.  done.
[16:07] <robbiew> awesome...just what I like to see!
[16:07] <robbiew> thnx barry
[16:07] <robbiew> doko?
[16:07] <mvo> bugfixes, bugfixes, bugfixes!
[16:07] <doko> filed the remaining ftbfs reports (although lp times out showing them),  fixing build failures, fix gcc-4.5 ftbfs (somebody turned on hard errors for pointer conversations on the buildds *after* the test rebuild), prepare and start gcc-4.6 test rebuild
[16:07] <doko> done
[16:09] <robbiew> mvo?
[16:09] <mvo> Apt-clone: review/merge lp:~ev/apt-clone/739489 (thanks!), rework protect_installed hanlding for restore-new-distro mode
[16:09] <mvo> Apt: fix bug when parsing --print-foreign-architectures output, merge fixes from debina-sid, upload new version, run unattended-upgrades even if apt-get update returned a error
[16:09] <mvo> Aptdaemon: prepare new upload, merge lp:~mvo/aptdaemon/relax-lintian-checks as distro patch, test, upload new version, merge fixes from juliank (thanks!)
[16:09] <mvo> Command-not-found: start extraction on frei, updated to include ports architectures (#533031)
[16:09] <mvo> Python-apt: perpare merge python-apt,review/merge changes by juliank (thanks!), test/merge multiarch patch
[16:09] <mvo> Rnr-server: send RT about http -> https redirect for the anoymous API
[16:09] <mvo> Softare-center: fix install-buy-something test, work with ISD, branch review/merges, look at crash (IOError) with multiprocessing and reviews, weblive work with stgraber
[16:09] <mvo> Synaptic: add basic multiarch support
[16:09] <mvo> Unattended-upgrades: add option to auto-fix interrupted dpkg runs, debug/fix crash with overly long control files (LP: #724994)
[16:09] <mvo> Update-maanger: uploading new version, add mini proxy to properly test the proxy download feature, ensure on EOL->EOL upgrade the users see a EOL release accountment text that warns about upgrading to a EOL page, merge lp:~evfool/update-manager/fix727069, work on end-of-life code, integrate new webpage, write some more formal tests, work on more reliable ssh detection (#744995), write debsums_lite.py post-upgrade test (not that useful unfort
[16:09] <mvo> unately as "locale" fails that test
[16:09] <mvo> (done)
[16:10] <robbiew> mvo: as usual...slacking
[16:10] <robbiew> :P
[16:10] <robbiew> thnx
[16:10]  * mvo pats his gtimelog logs
[16:11] <robbiew> cjwatson: ? ...kidding :P
[16:11] <robbiew> jhunt?
[16:11] <jhunt> More Upstart Cookbook updates. Cleared inbox. Rest of time spent
[16:11] <jhunt> diagnosing another upstart chroot issue - taken a long time to determine
[16:11] <jhunt> that problem appears to be related to pbuilder/chroot build env.
[16:11] <jhunt> EOT
[16:12]  * robbiew <3 the upstart cookbook!
[16:12] <robbiew> ev?
[16:12] <ev> Fixing bugs, and doing a lot of bug gardening.  Ubiquity fixes: 726740, 759401, 758236, 652852, 745607, 757208, 752372, 751145, 744938, 745138, m-a: 739400, apt-clone: pushed pyflakes into the test harness and fixed some crasher bugs.  Did my patch pilot time. Deep in bug 664533 at the moment.
[16:12] <ev> bam.
[16:12] <ev> done
[16:12] <robbiew> nice!
[16:12] <ev> thanks
[16:12]  * mvo hugs ev
[16:13] <robbiew> psurbhi: ?
[16:13] <ev> there's a bit more than that actually
[16:13] <ev> but those are the ones with bug numbers
[16:13]  * ev hugs back
[16:13] <ev> thanks for the merges
[16:13] <psurbhi> *) fixes two small code bugs in mountall
[16:13] <psurbhi> *) Added a private dbus server to mountall, tested - submitted for design/code review (spent some time here in debugging a mountall segfault in chroot, and the client app in initramfs - turned out to be a wrong job start clause :-/)
[16:13] <psurbhi> *) adding a test script to upstart - testing the test script.
[16:13] <psurbhi> (done)
[16:14] <robbiew> psurbhi: thx
[16:15] <robbiew> cjwatson?
[16:15] <cjwatson> Done:
[16:15] <cjwatson>  - Fixed livecd-rootfs regression caused by kernel perms change
[16:15] <cjwatson>  - Minor tweak to improve iSCSI installation, though something's still broken
[16:15] <cjwatson>  - Fixed rootskel kernel detection on VMware (745947)
[16:15] <cjwatson>  - apt-setup re-disable partner (744982)
[16:15] <cjwatson>  - Fixed rescue-mode on btrfs
[16:15] <cjwatson>  - Various GRUB backports, esp. btrfs; add grub-mount to improve os-prober
[16:15] <cjwatson>  - OEM locale handling (741304)
[16:16] <cjwatson>  - gfxpayload blacklisting tweaks (757603, 758328)
[16:16] <cjwatson>  - Ubiquity keyboard fixes (758584)
[16:16] <cjwatson>  - and generally walking through beta-2 bugs
[16:16] <cjwatson> To do:
[16:16] <cjwatson>  - GRUB aufs failure (700910)
[16:16] <cjwatson>  - console-setup deadkeys upgrade (742683)
[16:16] <cjwatson>  - GRUB background colour handling (696915)
[16:16] <cjwatson>  - Wubi backports and testing
[16:16] <cjwatson>  - Make partman reuse existing BIOS Boot Partition (746313)
[16:17] <cjwatson> (done)
[16:17] <robbiew> cjwatson: thnx
[16:18] <robbiew> [TOPIC] Natty Bugs
[16:18] <MootBot> New Topic:  Natty Bugs
[16:19] <robbiew> damn it
[16:19] <ev> jeez, amateur hour
[16:19] <robbiew> [Lightning - Part 2]
[16:19] <robbiew> ev: YOU be quiet
[16:19] <robbiew> stgraber: ?
[16:19] <ev> hahaha
[16:19] <stgraber> yeah !
[16:19] <stgraber> A bit of work on AWSTrial, usual meetings (ARB, DMB), otherwise mostly ISO testing and bug fixing: bug 759080, bug 759115, bug 745532, bug 758732, bug 752393, bug 628906, bug 745011
[16:19] <stgraber> (done)
[16:20]  * mvo hugs stgraber
[16:22] <robbiew> [TOPIC] Natty Bugs
[16:22] <MootBot> New Topic:  Natty Bugs
[16:23] <robbiew> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2011-04-08#Foundations
[16:23] <robbiew> that's a bit stale
[16:23] <robbiew> one sec
[16:23] <robbiew> http://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.milestone=33569
[16:23] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.milestone=33569
[16:24] <barry> i have a fix for bug 758037 ready to go after beta release
[16:25] <robbiew> nice!
[16:25] <robbiew> whew...ubiquity mentioned all ova' da place
[16:26] <robbiew> though I question the severity on some of these :P
[16:26] <robbiew> [TOPIC] Oneiric Planning
[16:26] <MootBot> New Topic:  Oneiric Planning
[16:26] <ev> yeah, they're not all very major
[16:27] <ev> I've been milestoneing some bugs to just avoid losing track of them, with the hope of getting them in for natty
[16:27] <robbiew> ack
[16:27] <robbiew> no worries on my end
[16:27] <robbiew> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/OneiricPlanning#Ideas
[16:27] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/OneiricPlanning#Ideas
[16:28] <robbiew> I need to add info from the mailing-list conversations and put this stuff into something a bit more easy to parse
[16:28] <robbiew> will do that this week
[16:28] <robbiew> [TOPIC]AOB/GoodNews?
[16:28] <MootBot> New Topic: AOB/GoodNews?
[16:28] <cjwatson> sorry, on bugs: if anyone is short of work for natty and doesn't have anything off the beta-2 or final bug lists to tackle, please look at the ftbfs list
[16:28] <cjwatson> doko, do you have the current link there?
[16:29] <doko> http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20110329-natty.html
[16:29] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20110329-natty.html
[16:29] <mvo> I got a branch for the archive-crawler by a contributor that massively improves the extraction of the menu-data icons
[16:29]  * mvo loves our community
[16:30] <doko> the ld-no-add-needed are not build failures anymore, because ld --no-add-needed isn't the default anymore, saving us ~80 packages to fix
[16:30] <doko> will be re-enabled for oneiric
[16:31] <cjwatson> doko: thanks
[16:31] <doko> hmm, I doubt the list is up to date. pinged wgrant
[16:31] <robbiew> anything else?
[16:32] <cjwatson> having one of my "what are we missing" moments
[16:32] <robbiew> heh
[16:32] <cjwatson> the bugs we're hearing about at the moment aren't that bad, AFAICT
[16:32] <doko> well, the extra errors on the buildds ... I assume we'll have to catch these somehow
[16:32] <doko> let's see how much of these show up with the gcc-4.6 rebuild
[16:33] <cjwatson> should be possible to scan build logs for the same regex that launchpad-buildd uses
[16:33] <Ampelbein> cjwatson, doko: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=ftbfs+natty+-no-add-needed&field.tags_combinator=ALL should be a list of open ftbfs without ld-no-add-needed
[16:33] <cjwatson> albeit slow as usual
[16:33] <doko> Ampelbein: these queries time out for me unfortunately
[16:34] <doko> Ampelbein: how many issues does this query show?
[16:34] <Ampelbein> doko, 395
[16:35] <doko> hmm. maybe the list *is* up to date
[16:36] <robbiew> #endmeeting
[16:36] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:36.
[16:36] <robbiew> that conversation isn't really meeting specific ;)
[16:36] <robbiew> thanks all!
[16:36] <ev> thanks
[16:36] <stgraber> thanks
[16:36] <barry> thanks robbiew!
[16:36] <mvo> thanks
[16:36] <doko> thanks
[16:36] <jhunt> thx
[16:36] <psurbhi> thanks.


[22:11] <bkerensa> hello
[22:19] <nibalizer> ohai
[22:21] <bkerensa> so this channel is alive :)
[22:56] <MarkDude> Yep
[23:05] <nibalizer> internet works
[23:05] <nibalizer> w00t


[00:49] <CC112> Hello everyone
[00:52] <CC112> This is an open to all ubuntu chat correct?
[17:02] <rohin> Hey, noob question, I have installed elementary os and the wifi driver does not work(intel centrino n 1030) and I was asked to update to the latest kernel
[17:03] <rohin> However I do not know the latest stable release
[17:03] <rohin> any help would be appreciated :)
[19:45] <apw> i'd not sure we know anything about elementary os ?


[00:01] <gnomefreak> topyli: yeah thats been like that and it seems they are changing other themes to fit the new Ubuntu themes
[00:01] <gnomefreak> it was part of the g-t profile thing
[00:02] <gnomefreak> at least that was one of the apps
[00:02] <topyli> i'll just keep using my high quality topyli themes :)
[00:03] <gnomefreak> i also have a few i made that i use
[00:05] <topyli> mine are just simple variants (color schemes) of a few good themes, like clearlooks or elementary
[00:07] <gnomefreak> topyli: mine too making full versions is not something i can do at least not sure if i can
[00:08] <topyli> no reason, when you can take what others already did! :)
[00:08] <gnomefreak> good point
[00:08] <gnomefreak> use-reuse
[00:08] <topyli> i just find a nice desktop background and change clearlooks colors to match
[00:09] <topyli> sometimes i like something so much i save the theme as 'topyli-grayish-non-boring' or similar names
[00:10] <knome> :P
[00:11] <knome> topyli, i envy the amount of imagination and creativiness you put into those names.
[00:12] <topyli> heh
[00:13] <topyli> i even have a theme on gnome-look.org!
[00:13] <knome> oooh
[00:13] <topyli> it's a metacity theme called not-very-much
[00:13] <knome> >__<
[00:13] <gnomefreak> i use john's theme1 ....;2.....3
[00:13] <knome> well, that TELLS A LOT
[00:13] <knome> :P
[00:13] <gnomefreak> sorry not real creative on that
[00:13]  * gnomefreak uses picture to tell apart
[00:14] <topyli> i found a metacity theme with no titlebar at all, but i was unhappy because it still draws a colored border around the window. so i removed the color and uploaded the theme to gnome-look
[00:14] <topyli> i'm a gnome designer and should totally try and get foundation membership
[00:15] <gnomefreak> i spent about an hour looking for good backgrounds. didnt find a whole lot of them
[00:16]  * gnomefreak still waiting for 3.0
[00:16]  * knome is pretty much waiting for xfce 4.8
[00:16] <gnomefreak> only 2 more releases left
[00:17] <gnomefreak> xfce ==4.6?
[00:17] <topyli> gnomefreak, http://dl.dropbox.com/u/213546/index.html -- see promatic and graymatic
[00:17] <knome> gnomefreak, yep. 4.8 is the next
[00:17] <topyli> promate even
[00:17] <knome> topyli, like the balloons bg, though the balloons could have way less contrast
[00:18] <knome> topyli, weird hat.
[00:18] <topyli> knome, there's also a version where the balloons are light blue. it's not very bad
[00:18] <gnomefreak> i like the balloons one
[00:18] <topyli> knome, bald protection for summer!
[00:19] <topyli> gnomefreak, let me upload the one with the blueish balloons so you can take a look at that too
[00:19] <gnomefreak> topyli: thanks
[00:21] <topyli> gnomefreak, refresh the index page, find balloonsblue
[00:21] <gnomefreak> topyli: thanks
[00:22] <gnomefreak> oh yeah i like that
[00:22] <topyli> gah! could have linked directly, i'm just too exited about dropbox-index.py once i found it :)
[00:25] <knome> topyli, the image reminds me of: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/63292/balloon-cup
[00:29] <topyli> knome, i have no idea what that is, but it does look fun :)
[00:30] <knome> topyli, never played the game myself either. but i've heard it's a bit too long an boring for it's genre. sadly. i kind of would have liked the theme :)
[00:34] <topyli> yeah :)
[00:36] <ikonia> I've pm'd paddy_melon to join #ubuntu-ops to talk about his unathurozied bot
[00:36] <ikonia> he knows the rules on this
[00:36] <ikonia> hello paddy_melon thank you for joining
[00:36] <paddy_melon> k
[00:36] <paddy_melon> yep soz
[00:36] <ikonia> paddy_melon: could you please explain why you're running an unauthorized bot in #ubuntu ?
[00:36] <paddy_melon> got installed and, somehow went to that channel
[00:36] <paddy_melon> sorry
[00:36] <paddy_melon> It won't be back
[00:37] <ikonia> ok, thank you
[00:37] <paddy_melon> Once again, sorry for any problems caused
[00:37] <ikonia> no problem, thank you
[00:38] <topyli> all good then. let's hope this is not a recurring event
[00:38] <paddy_melon> BTW, that address is of a shell that a few users use so, some may not be able to connect. I've changed the config of my bot now
[00:38] <ikonia> ok, thank you
[00:38] <paddy_melon> so perhaps you should unban that?
[00:38] <ikonia> we'll look into that
[00:38] <paddy_melon> k
[00:38] <paddy_melon> ok, thanks guys and sorry once again
[00:39] <ikonia> no problem again
[00:39] <ikonia> fyi: I'm not removing that ban just yet, I'll put a note in BT
[00:39] <topyli> ikonia, do you think the bot will not return if there is no ban?
[00:39] <topyli> oh, you don't
[00:40] <ikonia> also keep in mind paddy's a long term problem user and so are his friends (bernard_chan) that use that shell account
[00:40] <topyli> i'm familiar with paddy himself
[00:40] <ikonia> I'd rather leave that in place for just a few days
[00:40] <topyli> agreed
[00:41] <ikonia> easy to remove (I'll put a note in BT for after the weekend)
[00:41] <jrib> yeah, I think we should unban.  I removed the shellium ban a few weeks (months ago), this is the first incident I've noticed and the admins for shellium seem to be pretty responsive (or were in the past at least)
[00:42] <jrib> just my opinion, if you think it's better to leave the ban ikonia, I won't argue
[00:42] <ikonia> it's up to you guys, I'd rather leave it in place for a few days based on paddy's past behaviour and his chums
[00:42] <ikonia> make sure this isn't one of their stupid games
[00:43] <jrib> I'm not familiar with his behavior, just remember the name.  So I'll defer to your judgment
[00:43] <topyli> if it's shellium, we may be talking about lots of users
[00:43] <ikonia> most probably a genuine mistake as suggested, but that's the issue with being a long term problem user, credability goes
[00:43] <jrib> I think they get to choose their hostnames, so it's easy for them to get around the ban anyway
[00:43] <ikonia> if you'd rather remove it, I'm cool with that
[00:43] <topyli> i still think we can push a message by removing the an a bit later
[00:43] <jrib> they can choose *.shellium.org afaik
[00:45] <topyli> um, in that case the ban isn't even a problem for shellium users?
[00:46] <jrib> well, I kicked two clones after ikonia's banned with the same hostname.  I assume they were clones, but they may have been regular users
[00:46] <jrib> At least a couple of months ago, the default hostname was something like support.at.shellium.org
[00:50] <topyli> i'm going to escape to bed. i can't really form opinions, although i would support a short ban (a day? two?) to make sure the Coming of End of Trouble
[00:51] <ikonia> I'll make a note to remove it and see if jrib's suggestions come to reality
[01:02] <ikonia> on it
[01:02] <Flannel> mmm, alright.
[01:03] <ikonia> police_officer = ryan = daemonFC ?
[01:03] <Flannel> Mr Farmer?
[01:03] <ikonia> maybe?
[01:03] <Flannel> let me look
[01:04] <ikonia> ta
[01:08] <Flannel> I don't think so
[01:09] <ikonia> cool, thanks
[01:13] <ikonia> talking to vamp in pm
[01:15] <bazhang> don't see much support from linuxguy2009 ; every answer seems to be karmic is a failure, no surprise it is not working for you
[01:16]  * jpds trolls back.
[01:16] <jpds> bazhang: Hey dude.
[01:17] <bazhang> jpds, hi
[01:17] <jpds> bazhang: You ever seen how awesome our TW mirror stuff is? http://people.canonical.com/~jpds/mirrors/push-archive-mirrors-dot.png
[01:18] <bazhang> jpds, very nice! I know from experience when updating / upgrading that they are flawless
[01:19] <jpds> I was very surprised when I found them out.
[01:27] <ikonia> Hmmm this looks interesting.
[01:27] <ikonia> no idea who tharkun is or why he wants me
[01:43] <ikonia> bed time - out
[01:43] <bazhang> night
[02:56] <bazhang> mYute, hi, can we help you?
[02:57] <mYute> oh no
[02:57] <mYute> no idea why i was redirected here
[02:57] <mYute> im sorry
[03:19] <Flannel> Your quit message I fathom.
[03:19] <Flannel> I just have no idea where he's forwarded from
[03:20] <Seeker`> @bansearch mYute
[03:20] <Seeker`> @login
[03:20] <Seeker`> @bansearch mYute
[03:20] <Flannel> Looked yesterday, not in there.
[03:22] <gord> how bizarre
[03:35] <elky> #ubuntu, set by mneptok, by unaffiliated cloak
[03:53] <tonyyarusso> nalioth: how often is ubot3's database synced to ubottu's again?
[03:56] <tonyyarusso> !games
[03:57] <Semitones> would that be a useful addition?
[03:57] <tonyyarusso> possibly
[03:58] <mneptok> i banned mYute for his/her /quit message
[03:58] <tonyyarusso> Semitones: I don't see that channel on the Ubuntu channel list.
[03:58] <Semitones> I found it on the teams page
[03:58] <mneptok> (and guessing from the content of the message, it's "his")
[03:59] <tonyyarusso> Semitones: link?
[03:59] <Semitones> tonyyarusso, the channel seems pretty quiet though
[03:59] <Semitones> tonyyarusso, their topic has the link -
[03:59] <persia> And doesn't follow current governance recommendations.
[03:59] <Semitones> just a sec
[04:00] <Semitones> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GamingTeam/
[04:01] <tonyyarusso> Semitones: you'll need to get them up to speed with policy and such and listed on the IRC wiki page before it should be in the factoid I think.
[04:01] <persia> I don't think it's best to point folk looking at games to a marketing team.
[04:01] <tonyyarusso> that too
[04:02] <tonyyarusso> maybe it should be -marketing-games or something
[04:02] <Semitones> I thought they were gaming enthusiasts... whoops
[04:02] <persia> There's been a number of long threads about the nomenclature of that team.  It's not worth raising them again.
[04:02] <Semitones> I see
[04:02] <persia> Semitones: Most of them are, but their focus is on marketing and promotion for that team.
[04:03] <persia> Semitones: So while that team benefits from help, I think we'd do better to either create new space (if there is sufficient demand), or just also discuss games in existing channels.
[04:04] <Semitones> persia, that sounds like the best idea
[04:05] <Semitones> the only reason I brought it up was there was someone in -offtopic looking to play wormux with somebody, while nobody did
[04:05] <Semitones> *nobody else wanted to
[04:06] <Semitones> but you're right, until there's enough of a population in -gaming, with a focus on games, -offtopic is as good a place as any to discuss games
[04:42] <nalioth> tonyyarusso: hourly
[04:42] <tonyyarusso> o rly?
[04:42] <tonyyarusso> !-lucid
[04:43] <tonyyarusso> what timezone are those stamps?  UTC?
[04:43] <tonyyarusso> nalioth: I'm quite certain that factoid was edited more than an hour ago, and it hasn't yet updated in ubot3, is why I ask.
[04:45] <nhandler> tonyyarusso: Those times are UTC
[04:46] <tonyyarusso> Okay, so that makes it almost 24 hours ago.
[04:46] <nhandler> Yep
[04:46] <tonyyarusso> nalioth: So I suspect something about that database sync is broken.
[04:48] <nalioth> there is a cronjob that grabs the ubottu db hourly and replaces ubot3s db with it
[04:48] <nalioth> i have no idea why some factoids update and some do not
[04:49] <tonyyarusso> is there some sort of lock on certain parts?
[04:54] <nalioth> i just give the bot a place to stay  :P
[05:30] <Pici> oh dear
[05:41] <Pici> I'm spamming #ubuntu with modes. Sorry.
[05:41] <Flannel> Pici: Spam Spam Spam, Spam Spam, Eggs and Spam.
[05:42] <Pici> We have ~450 stale exceptions
[05:42] <Flannel> Oh, fun.
[05:49] <Pici> done... finally.
[07:45] <elky> wait, banlist filled up again already? why...?
[07:46] <bazhang> 450 or so stale exceptions
[07:57] <elky> bazhang, I removed the pre-march exceptions in 2 of the floodbots just the other day.
[07:58] <bazhang> elky, just reporting what P i c i said from earlier
[07:58] <elky> yeah, but if it's filled up in a matter of days, then the problem is incrementally worsening
[08:01] <jussi01> hrm, anyone about with launchpadlib experience that could write a small script for me?
[08:03] <jussi01> elky: iirc, theres an issue currently with the FB's not removing exceptions correctly.
[08:05] <elky> yeah i've kinda noticed, but that a fortnights worth for 2 bots have been replaced in a matter of like 2 days is scary.
[09:26] <jussi01> !ops | The IRCC has been cleaning up the access list in here. If you have lost your +V in here and believe you should still have it, please contact one of the IRCC. Thanks!
[09:26] <ikonia> test
[09:26] <elky> well... you could cross reference who you just pinged :P
[09:26] <bazhang> sucess
[09:26] <elky> fail
[09:26] <bazhang> phail1
[09:26] <elky> yar
[09:27] <jussi01> no, not so fail, as most people have ! o p s on highlight.
[09:27] <elky> jussi01, you just know you want /another/ launchpad team for voice tracking
[09:27] <jussi01> elky: no, not at all.
[09:27] <bazhang> sorry just kidding jussi01
[09:27] <elky> jussi01, "fail" as in success has 2 c's
[09:30]  * jussi01 whatevers and gets back to work.
[09:30]  * elky raises an eyebrow
[09:46] <ikonia> ok - I'm getting tired of spaceghost now
[09:47] <ikonia> he's lecturing DrWillis who was helping someone really nice
[09:49] <SpaceGhostC2C> I have a question.
[09:49] <ikonia> then ask it
[09:49] <SpaceGhostC2C> It's about informing others about how to use pipes.
[09:49] <SpaceGhostC2C> Is it alright?
[09:50] <ikonia> yes it is
[09:50] <SpaceGhostC2C> Okay, thank you.
[09:50] <ikonia> ughhh
[09:50] <ikonia> never gives time to answer
[09:51] <SpaceGhostC2C> ikonia: yes?
[09:51] <ikonia> thank you for returning
[09:51] <ikonia> I was about to type before you exited
[09:51] <SpaceGhostC2C> Oh.sorry.
[09:51] <ikonia> There is no problem with telling people to use pipes, it's solid advice to help the channel, however look at the situation and the way you approach it
[09:51] <ikonia> 1.) Dr_Willis was helping the guy fine
[09:52] <ikonia> 2.) Dr_willis does not randomly query the bot in the channel, it was 2 occasions
[09:52] <ikonia> 3.) the way you approach it "do you randomly query the bot in channels normally?"
[09:52] <ikonia> 4.) "use pipes please"
[09:52] <ikonia> thats not great
[09:52] <ikonia> I understand what you where trying to do
[09:52] <SpaceGhostC2C> ikonia: good point. he did randomly query a couple times though, I checked.
[09:52] <ikonia> SpaceGhostC2C: a "couple" of times
[09:53] <ikonia> oops
[09:53] <ikonia> with topyli
[09:53] <ikonia> SpaceGhostC2C: so how about stop trying to direct people as you've been asked, and agreed to do with tonyyarusso
[09:53] <SpaceGhostC2C> ikonia: investigate the bot is the correct way to randomly query, right?
[09:53] <ikonia> he wasn't randomly querying
[09:54] <SpaceGhostC2C> I'll change my approach to telling him to use pipes.
[09:54] <ikonia> or don't tell him
[09:54] <ikonia> there wasn't a need
[09:54] <ikonia> but if you do need to tell $someone, approach it better
[09:54] <ikonia> or better still - don't do it at all, as you agreed with topyli
[09:54] <SpaceGhostC2C> Will do.
[09:54] <ikonia> do you remember agreeing that with topyli ?
[09:54] <SpaceGhostC2C> I didn't agree not to show people a better way. I agreed not to troll them.
[09:55] <ikonia> no you didn't
[09:55] <ikonia> and stop trying to direct the channel
[09:55] <SpaceGhostC2C> And to approach things nicer..
[09:55] <ikonia> you agreed to allow the ops to deal with issues
[09:55] <ikonia> do you remember that
[09:55] <SpaceGhostC2C> ikonia: I did, it wasn't an issue, I just wanted to let him know he should use a pipe. Just a friendly thought. I didn't approach it correctly.
[09:56] <ikonia> do you remember agreed to stop trying to direct the channels
[09:56] <topyli> SpaceGhostC2C, if someone makes a random mistake with the bot, the correct way to handle is not to handle it at all. if someone is doing it for their personal amusement, then we have a problem and must deal with it
[09:56] <SpaceGhostC2C> topyli: I'll ignore it in the future.
[09:57] <ikonia> just stop trying to direct the channel,
[09:57] <ikonia> so that went in one ear and out the other
[09:57] <topyli> that's my guess
[09:57] <ikonia> he doesn't hear what he doesn't want to hear
[09:57] <ikonia> it's getting really old now, and it was uncalled for to Dr_Willis who was helping just fine
[09:58] <ikonia> topyli: apologies for the hilight - thoughtless
[09:58]  * jussi01 uses pipes all the time... ?? :confused:
[09:59] <ikonia> jussi01: dr_willis was helping a guy with an annoying nick name (special chars) he hit the bot 2 times in quick success to give the guy the info he asked for
[09:59] <topyli> ikonia, not at all, i might as well know that he's "helping us" again
[09:59] <ikonia> Spaceghost jumped on him telling him to use pipes and asking if he always randomly queried the bot
[09:59] <jussi01> oh meh
[09:59] <jussi01> anyone got a good chicken satay recipe?
[09:59] <ikonia> it wasn't random, it was good help, and Dr_Willis provides great help/attitude normally anyway, so it's not like he didn't know, the guy just had an awkward nick
[10:01] <gord> jussi01, put the chicken in the microwave, for about an hour. put it in tomato soup. put it under the gril, for about an hour. put it in the bin because its disgusting
[10:01] <ikonia> microwave ???
[10:01] <jussi01> gord: hahahahaah
[10:01] <bazhang> http://www.taste.com.au/recipes/3561/chicken+satay
[10:01] <ikonia> jussi01: jamie oliver online has one
[10:01] <ikonia> never used it but it looks ok
[10:01]  * persia wonders if chicken can withstand being in a microwave for about an hour
[10:02]  * ikonia doesn't want to find out
[10:02] <wgrant> Boom?
[10:02] <jussi01> lol
[10:02] <persia> Well, depends on microwave construction.  I think one either ends up with an explosion or little itty bitty diamonds.
[10:03] <persia> (the resulting diamonds are worth less than the electricity + amortisation on a sufficiently pressure-capable microwave for those seeking to try this at home)
[10:03] <jussi01> hehe
[10:03] <gord> to mythbusters!
[10:04] <jussi01> well I guess it depends on whether you put the microwave on high or defrost, no?
[10:04] <wgrant> High, defrost, or diamondify.
[10:05]  * jussi01 gives up and goes to eat peanut butter out of the jar...
[10:05] <persia> Just dip the chicken in, and call it "satay"
[10:05] <jussi01> lol
[10:05] <gord> finger' lick'n good.
[10:06] <jussi01> ok, so what I really need is a _basic_ satay recipe
[10:06] <persia> Take something dead.  marinate in satay sauce.  Burn slightly on an open flame.  Dip in peanut sauce.
[10:07] <jussi01> lol
[10:08] <jussi01> its sad. Ive peanut butter, peanuts, chicken, chilli, soy sauce and a few other bits n peices, but no good recipe for that...
[10:08] <jussi01> :D
[10:09] <jussi01> I think ill end up just whacking stuff in and hooping it tastses good.
[10:09] <topyli> jussi01, just try and get the chicken into an edible status. then call it satay. but not just any satay, but jussi01's special satay! "i bet you've never had one like this before"
[10:09] <persia> there are any number of good recipe-finding resources on the internet.  some links were previously posted.
[10:09] <jussi01> topyli: lol
[10:10] <jussi01> persia: too much complicated stuff on those :D
[10:10] <bazhang> ugh guadalinux kids
[10:14] <elky> one of the #debian ops was telling me earlier that they're getting a lot of the spanish kids over thataway too
[10:17] <topyli> i wonder how *that* happens
[10:33] <elky> I'm not sure it's the same as last year's livecd bug
[10:34] <elky> considering they're being autojoined to the correct network, it kinda rules it out
[10:39] <ikonia> elky: some guy started pm'ing about it last night
[10:39] <ikonia> someone donated a load of ubuntu pc's to some schools
[10:39] <elky> wasn't it a gov't rollout?
[10:40] <elky> to an entire spanish junta
[10:40] <ikonia> ah, maybe
[10:41] <elky> was it themill in #d-ot?
[10:41] <elky> he's who was talking to me about it earlier
[10:41] <ikonia> no katurn, or something like that
[10:41] <ikonia> katakah
[10:41] <ikonia> I'll check
[10:41] <elky> well, you can scroll up in #d-ot and see my conversation about it
[10:42] <ikonia> will do
[10:57] <ikonia> ubottu.com responding like a dog
[13:03] <ikonia> whois xy
[13:03] <ikonia> ok - xy and mewto are the same person with the bad quit message
[15:08] <tritium> Good morning.
[15:09] <jussi01> o/ topyli
[15:09] <jussi01> o/ tritium even
[15:09] <jussi01> tabfail
[15:10] <topyli> i like the attention, real or accidental!
[15:10] <tritium> Hi, jussi01 & topyli.
[15:11] <topyli> hi tritium
[15:30] <Tm_T> o/
[15:32] <knome> moi Tm_T
[15:36] <Tm_T> oh and I won't be much around, being whole week in spa resort/hotel or something that kind
[15:36] <knome> Tm_T, o.O
[15:37] <knome> Tm_T, is there lots of beer?
[15:37] <Tm_T> no, but lots of healthy workouts for my unemployed body
[15:37] <knome> lol, okay
[19:15] <jussi01> Reminder, IRCC meeting in 45 mins.
[19:16] <knome> :)
[22:31] <crashsystems> Is there someone in here on the IRC team who I can talk to briefly via PM?
[22:32] <persia> Does it need to be PM?
[22:32] <crashsystems> I'd prefer it to be, honestly.
[22:33] <persia> OK.  Just operators here, generally.  Is there a specific channel you want to talk about?  That might narrow down who you want to have a PM with.
[22:33] <crashsystems> yes, the #ubuntu-us-fl channel
[22:36] <persia> Hrm.  None of the operators for that channel are here, and that channel isn't controlled by Ubuntu IRC Council for some reason.  I think you want one of the folk listed at https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-irc-council/+members
[22:36] <persia> (assuming this is a matter of escalation)
[22:36] <nhandler> crashsystems: I can talk with you if you want
[22:36] <crashsystems> nhandler: ok, thanks
[22:36] <nhandler> (and send you in the right direction if necessary)


[12:21] <et_> Running 0.18.0. Have checkout. Tried to commit. Got "ERROR: parent_id ... not in inventory". Have no clue what caused this happen, or how to correct it.
[12:27] <et_> Looks like if you bzr moved a file, and try to commit another file without first commiting the move, you get this error message. The work around is to commit the move first.
[02:29] <vila> 4. he's got a *first* baby :)
[03:50] <lapthrick> can you uncommit a revision from the middle of the history?
[03:51] <lapthrick> like, if the current revision is, say, 3000, can I uncommit rev 2900 only?
[06:45] <lifeless> lapthrick: no, uncommit just pops the top off the branch, recursively
[02:32] <cory> I'm confused that adding identical files is a conflict.
[02:34] <dato> cory: when you `bzr add` the same file in two different branches, each of them gets assigned a different file-id, which is the id bzr uses to know if they're the same file or not
[02:49] <cory> I understand.  I guess my gut expectation though is that it clobber files with the same name so that I can do a bzr status to see if they've actually changed, myself.
[02:52] <cory> Also, if, say, I accidentally reverted that part of a merge and kept the files different, I have no idea how to cause them to merge again.
[02:54] <cory> It's unfortunately guaranteed to happen the way I'm trying to round-trip changes with p4. :P
[08:34] <lapthrick> jelmer: poke?
[08:51] <lifeless> moin
[08:51] <lifeless> cory: ping
[09:29] <cory> lifeless: Hiya.
[09:29] <lifeless> hi
[09:30] <lifeless> you're working on a p4 round-tripper ?
[09:30] <cory> pong?
[09:32] <cory> I just have some sketchy scripts I threw together.  One to automate bringing changes from p4 to bzr, and one that just opens files for edit / add / whatever by comparing the current working tree and p4 branch in bzr.
[09:33] <lifeless> ok
[09:33] <cory> The first should really just be tailor, but fixing that was more daunting than making something that would work for now.
[09:33] <lifeless> so a couple of notes about the guts that may help you
[09:33] <lifeless> tailor is, IMO, broken by design
[09:33] <lifeless> because its a lowest common denominator approach
[09:34] <cory> Sure.
[09:34] <lifeless> I prefer high fidelity myself
[09:34] <lifeless> anyhow, bzr has an inode concept
[09:34] <lifeless> files are accessible by path, but identified by 'inode', which we call 'file-id'
[09:36] <cory> How would I take advantage of that?
[09:36] <lifeless> we have some sketches for recording copying and merging of file-ids. When we have that it will be possible, and occasionally sensible, for merges that end up with a file with mostly the same content, at the same place, to be merged rather than placed alongside each other
[09:36] <cory> Ah, neat.
[09:36] <lifeless> but until those sketches are turned into reality you have a bit of a problem :)
[09:37] <lifeless> there are a few ways around the issue
[09:37] <lifeless> bzr-svn, which has the same issue, tackles it by assigning deterministically unique file-ids
[09:38] <lifeless> which gives e.g. README in all branches of the same project on the same svn server the same fileid
[09:38] <lapthrick> http://pastebin.com/m63022805 <-- more bzr-svn fun
[09:38] <lifeless> but unique across all other svn servers
[09:38] <cory> Hrrrrm.
[09:38] <lapthrick> apparently you can't merge-into from an SVN repo, it goes wrong at some point
[09:39] <lifeless> lapthrick: merge-into is a plugin command, it possibly uses the bzrlib api in ways that the bzr-svn author hasn't accomodatd.
[09:39] <cory> How do files get added to a branch from the bzr side when you're working with bzr-svn?
[09:39] <lifeless> lapthrick: I would file a question on bzr-svn about that
[09:39] <lifeless> cory: bzr add :)
[09:40] <lapthrick> lifeless: you mean a question and not a bug now?
[09:40] <cory> Does bzr-svn get involved and make sure the file has a proper file-id?
[09:40] <lifeless> lapthrick: I suggest you work with 'bzr checkout svn:// && bzr merge && bzr commit' because that will preserve the history the same as merge-into, with the advantage of working.
[09:40] <lifeless> lapthrick: yes, its not clear where the bug is.
[09:40] <lifeless> lapthrick: so ask for help :)
[09:41] <lifeless> cory: perhaps I misunderstood your question. I thought you meant 'bzr branch svn:///  foo && cd foo && touch BAR && bzr add BAR && bzr commit && bzr svn-push svn:////'
[09:41] <cory> Oh, or is the original file-id stored in an svn property?
[09:41] <lifeless> cory: yes, bzr svn-push (it will be integrated with bzr push sometime) annotates the svn repository
[09:42] <lapthrick> lifeless: but plain merge won't result in having a branch in a subdir, I do have it working with a branch made out of SVN, I just wanted to reduce the number of intermediate steps between upstream SVN and my branch-in-subdir
[09:42] <lifeless> lapthrick: I don't understand what you mean
[09:42] <lapthrick> lifeless: well, I don't understand what I'm supposed to merge
[09:43] <lifeless> lapthrick: what are you trying to do then?
[09:44] <lifeless> cory: so if you don't want to annotate p4, you can just do a one-way solution, as long as the ids in different branches for the same file are the same bzr will be happy
[09:44] <lifeless> cory: when you add a file on the bzr side, you will have a history disconnect after you get it coming back at you from p4, just take the p4 version always
[09:45] <lapthrick> lifeless: the same as I was doing yesterday (have a branch of an upstream SVN repo inside a subdir of my own repo), but pulled directly from SVN, instead from my-branch-of-upstream-SVN that serves no other purpose than to mediate between upstream SVN and my branch-in-a-subdir
[09:45] <cory> lifeless: Yeah, that sounds sensible.
[09:45] <lifeless> cory: and do a manual merge (patch foo < diff foo.ORIG foo.THIS)
[09:45] <lifeless> lapthrick: do you mean 'repo' or 'tree' ?
[09:46] <lapthrick> lifeless: tree
[09:46] <lifeless> lapthrick: the terms are not interchangable for bzr.
[09:46] <lapthrick> yeah, I guess
[09:46] <lifeless> lapthrick: so, you have tree-root/upstream
[09:46] <lifeless> where tree-root is a bzr tree
[09:46] <lifeless> and upstream is a svn checkout ?, or a bzr-svn branch from svn ?
[09:49] <lapthrick> lifeless: http://pastebin.com/m1a7e323
[09:49] <lapthrick> is it more clear?
[09:51] <cory> Random thought...or there could be something like patch queue manager performing the actual p4 submits. :)
[09:52] <lapthrick> what's p4?
[09:54] <lifeless> lapthrick: I don't have a browser here
[09:54] <cory> lapthrick: perforce
[09:54] <lifeless> lapthrick: perforce, a vcs
[09:54] <lapthrick> lifeless: sec, I'll paste it in private
[09:54] <lifeless> k'
[09:54] <lapthrick> cory: so you're writing p4 integration?
[09:55] <lifeless> adhoc version I think
[09:55] <lifeless> rather than e.g. bzr-p4
[09:55] <cory> Just hacking enough together to get by. :P
[09:55] <lapthrick> ah, so just a single project that's somehow dependent on p4?
[09:56] <lifeless> lapthrick: I'm still confused; what is the relationship between mytree and myupstream; did you bzr join? or are you using the alpha-quality nested trees support?
[09:57] <lifeless> lapthrick: its hard for me to understand what you mean, as your commands used paths that did not exist (you branch to myupstream, then cd to mytree; I can't tell what mytree is meant to be there)
[09:58] <lapthrick> lifeless: mytree is a pre-existing tree I want to have upstream as a part of. I want to get the same effect as bzr join would have, but I'm using merge-into for that
[09:58] <lapthrick> not nested trees
[09:58] <lifeless> I don't understand why you use merge-into, rather than cd + bzr pull
[09:59] <lifeless> merge-into is for doing *merges*, and if you are not changing the upstream, and its just a separate tree that happens to be positioned one dir down, then pull should work fine
[09:59] <lapthrick> lifeless: because I want to have upstream/ be seen as a part of mytree. Mytree is actually backed by an SVN repo, so when I push into it, I want upstream/ be uploaded as well
[10:00] <lapthrick> I'm essentially using bzr to manage SVN for me
[10:00] <lifeless> ok
[10:00] <lifeless> so if you want the content to be added and managed, you need to combine the trees.
[10:00] <lifeless> that means 'bzr join myupstream'
[10:00] <lapthrick> but that's really experimental, right?
[10:01] <lapthrick> merge-into does the same, except without real nested trees support
[10:01] <lapthrick> (and with slight caveats because of that)
[10:03] <lapthrick> lifeless: will I get burnt badly if I use bzr join?
[10:04] <lifeless> merge-into does an implicit join
[10:04] <lifeless> you've already joined
[10:04] <lifeless> after that you should just use regular merge
[10:04] <lapthrick> yes, I know
[10:05] <lapthrick> lifeless: it works, as long as I don't try to merge-into directly from svn://
[10:05] <lapthrick> if I have that intermediate bzr-svn branch, it works like a charm
[10:05] <lifeless> lapthrick: but why are you running merge-into more than once
[10:05] <lifeless> lapthrick: I don't see why the intermediate branch is a problem as you only need it once
[10:05] <lapthrick> lifeless: I'm not, those were two different cases. First is what I did (and what worked), second was what I'd like to do
[10:06] <lifeless> so, I'd definately record this somewhere
[10:06] <lapthrick> lifeless: oh, so I can merge with svn:// later on?
[10:06] <lapthrick> if so, it's even better
[10:06] <lifeless> so that jelmer/john can look at the error
[10:06] <lifeless> but merge-into is used to perform the join
[10:06] <lapthrick> yah, will do
[10:06] <lifeless> you should not keep using merge-into
[10:06] <lapthrick> I'm not, I used it only once
[10:07] <lifeless> righto. So now you use bzr merge svn:// and that should work
[10:09] <lapthrick> apparently it does, missing --other reports nothing
[10:09] <lapthrick> lifeless: thanks, I didn't realise I could do that
[10:10] <lifeless> thats something John should add to the plugin docs
[10:11] <lapthrick> now I just need to figure out how to prod bzr-svn into making an actual SVN branch (ie. one that will result in a branch being created in the SVN repo)
[10:11] <lifeless> bzr svn-push ?
[10:11] <lapthrick> hmm, or I can do it by hand and then rebind
[10:12] <lapthrick> lifeless: will it have the same effect as doing cd svncheckout && svn cp trunk branches/mybranch && svn commit ?
[10:13] <lifeless> I don't know
[10:13] <lapthrick> ah, right, that's what it should do I guess
[10:13] <Lo-lan-do> Anyone knows whether jelmer works freelance?
[10:13] <lapthrick> let's test it on something that's not my job repo though :)
[10:14] <lifeless> Lo-lan-do: he's at uni still AFAIK
[10:14] <lifeless> hi keir
[10:14] <Lo-lan-do> Hmm.
[10:15] <keir> lifeless, hey
[10:15] <keir> lifeless, RL has been giving me the smackdown lately
[10:15] <lifeless> I know the feeling
[10:15] <keir> lifeless, so i haven't touched the indexing backend in awhile
[10:15] <lifeless> I only made incremental partial commit 40% faster last week  :()
[10:16] <keir> that's sweeeet!
[10:16] <lifeless> index reading is 14% of the remaining overhead !
[10:16] <keir> lifeless, cool
[10:18] <keir> lifeless, is that because it has to read the entire index?
[10:19] <lifeless> yes
[10:20] <lapthrick> awesome, it works
[10:22] <keir> lifeless, when do you expect to merge packs?
[10:24] <lifeless> keir: I'm hoping this week to have the code in bzr.dev
[10:24] <lapthrick> is there a way to retroactively change the committer on revisions? I have some revisions committed with the wrong name and would like to avoid mucking around with shelve if possible
[10:24] <keir> lifeless, neat!
[10:24] <lifeless> format freeze will be once the index read issue is fixed
[10:25] <keir> lifeless, have you looked at all at my code?
[10:25] <lifeless> keir: at some yes
[10:25] <lifeless> not at all
[10:25] <keir> lifeless, i won't be able to touch it until tuesday
[10:26] <lifeless> thats fine
[10:26] <keir> lifeless, i feel like the code has become too complicated, and i'd like a second opinion
[10:32] <lapthrick> so what about changing the committer? Is that possible?
[10:34] <keir> lapthrick, uncommit and re-commit?
[10:34] <lifeless> lapthrick: bzr does not support altering or annotating existing revisions
[10:34] <lapthrick> keir: I wanted to avoid doing that
[10:34] <lapthrick> hmm, okay
[10:34] <lifeless> lapthrick: we currently feel that this is too much complexity for too little return
[10:34] <keir> lifeless, what about the 'nuclear launch codes' problem?
[10:34] <lifeless> keir: uncommit and garbage collect
[10:34] <keir> lifeless, i've personally run into that and had to hex edit a svn repo
[10:35] <lifeless> there are plugins that can create new revisions from existing, preserving the deltas etc
[10:35] <keir> lifeless, aah, ok. in my case it was several revs behind
[10:35] <lifeless> but the *meaning* of the revision changes when you remove a file from it
[10:35] <lifeless> or change its content
[10:35] <lifeless> its hash changes
[10:36] <lapthrick> okay, so what will be the easiest change to pop a series of commits, then recommit them, just with a different name? If I could avoid typing in commits messages anew, it'd be helpful
[10:36] <lapthrick> s/easiest change/easiest way/
[10:36] <lifeless> lapthrick: check the rebase plugin out; AIUI it will do what you want
[10:36] <lifeless> of course, it may not ;)
[10:37] <lapthrick> ah, right
[10:37] <lapthrick> I wonder how experimental it is
[10:47] <lapthrick> bzr bzr-pokerolymp:2085/> log -r ancestor:svn+https://beta.aimido.de/svn/src2/trunk
[10:47] <lapthrick> Unhandled error:
[10:47] <lapthrick> 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'base'
[10:47] <lapthrick> interesting
[10:49] <lifeless> bug filin' time  :)
[10:49] <lapthrick> bzr bzr-pokerolymp:2085/> log -r branch:svn+https://beta.aimido.de/svn/src2/trunk
[10:49] <lapthrick> A write attempt was made in a read only transaction on LockableFiles(lock, file:///home/mathrick/Dev/rails/bzr-pokerolymp/.bzr/repository/)
[10:49] <lapthrick> man, I'm good :)
[10:51] <lifeless> intereseteing
[10:51] <lifeless> log should be read only
[10:52] <lifeless> I'm better bzr-svn is the culprit
[11:55] <igc> morning all
[11:55] <lifeless> hola
[11:55] <lifeless> you're up early :)