[00:44] <elky_work> freaking fedora...
[00:46] <mneptok> "ask about our broken Perl"
[00:47] <Flannel> they broke perl?
[00:56] <elky_work> mneptok: there are updates waiting, including a kernel update. i dont want to have to reboot right now. however the kernel has fallen out of sync with the vmware modules so i need to recompile. this involves new kernel-devel package. this wants to bring in stuff for 3 different kernels
[01:14] <wgrant> elky_work: You know what it's trying to tell you...
[01:21] <elky_work> wgrant: use ubuntu
[01:21] <elky_work> i knkow
[01:21] <elky_work> but this is strictly a rpm workplace :(
[01:26] <pleia2> elky_work: if you want to move to the other side of the planet we're hiring ;)
[01:28] <elky_work> pleia2: heh. i've done enough moving the past year. i think i'll stick with this side of the planet for a bit longer
[01:29] <pleia2> fair enough
[01:30] <elky_work> i'm actually thinking of buying somewhere in about a year's time. rent costs about the same as a mortgage, so i might as well invest money in my future, rather than someone else's
[01:45] <pleia2> nice :)
[01:59] <mneptok> pleia2: you're in Philthadelphia, ja?
[01:59] <pleia2> mneptok: yep
[01:59] <mneptok> i sometimes almost miss it. :)
[01:59] <mneptok> sometimes. almost.
[02:00]  * pleia2 likes it here
[02:00] <mneptok> what i really miss is working at 4th and South, and lunch at Jim's
[02:00] <pleia2> :)
[02:00] <pleia2> I'm in the suburbs, but am downtown pretty often of late
[02:01] <mneptok> west? NE?
[02:01] <pleia2> NW, collegeville area
[02:01] <mneptok> k, i lived up that way in Bensalem. was born in New Hope.
[02:01] <mneptok> (well, born in Princeton at the hospital, but Mom and Dad lived ...)
[02:02] <pleia2> I lived in Bensalem for a summer in 1999, when I came back in 2001 I ended up in Montgomeryville
[02:02] <pleia2> grew up in Maine
[02:02] <mneptok> i was in Bensalem c1983 :P
[02:02] <pleia2> hehe
[02:02] <mneptok> right on the river. i guess looking at Camden every day is what burned me out ;)
[02:02]  * pleia2 laughs
[02:03] <pleia2> ubuntu NJ just had a lan party in Cherry Hill, I got slightly lost in Camden, I've had better afternoons
[02:03] <mneptok> was in Ardmore c1992. that's when i worked at TLA Video in CC
[02:04] <pleia2> nice area
[02:04] <mneptok> "lost in Camden" pretty much equates to "doomed, though you may be unaware of it" in my head
[02:04]  * pleia2 lived to tell the tale, all is well
[02:05] <mneptok> someday Philly will detonate the Ben Franklin Bridge and be done with it :)
[02:05] <pleia2> lol
[02:05] <mneptok> "so long, and thanks for all the ... uhhh ... inflated crime statistics?"
[02:06] <nalioth> mneptok: not the science lab, there?
[02:07] <mneptok> nalioth: in Camden?
[02:07] <mneptok> nalioth: if you mean "mth lab," SAY "meth lab" >:)
[02:07]  * pleia2 chuckles
[02:09] <nalioth><PHONE_NUMBER> 20:01 <+mneptok> (well, born in Princeton at the hospital, but Mom and Dad lived ...)          <<< not the Princeton University science lab?
[02:19] <mneptok> nalioth: they were asked to leave when my mucus nozzles became active.
[02:22] <Pici> Someday I'll actually do something with the NJ loco, instead of just reading about it on the mailing list
[02:23] <pleia2> Pici: are you local?
[02:23] <pleia2> Pici: do I have to kidnap you? :)
[02:23] <Pici> pleia2: I live right outside of New Brunswick, NJ
[02:23] <pleia2> !
[02:24] <Pici> ! indeed.
[02:24] <Flannel> New Brunswick?  Drinking and Whoring?
[02:24] <elky_work> drinking and what?
[02:24] <Flannel> elky_work: Its from 1776, you can't knock Ben Franklin.
[02:25] <elky_work> Flannel: it might have been said in 1776 by ben franklin, but it's 2008 and not appropriate for this channel.
[02:26] <Flannel> The musical is shown in high school, I'd argue its decent enough for this channel.  It wasn't like I was referring to a particular person.  But whatever.
[02:27] <elky_work> Flannel: so because mississippi burning is shown in highschools here, i should start recreating parts of that?
[02:30]  * mneptok gets aroused at the thought of elky in a full-head, latex Willem Defoe mask
[02:31] <pleia2> speaking of franklin, check it: phillylinux.org
[02:31] <pleia2> we have a new logo :)
[02:31] <mneptok> "Hey Microsoft. Go fly a kite!"
[02:31] <pleia2> hehe
[02:31] <pleia2> he might need a kite
[02:32] <mneptok> and/or a full-head, latex Willem Defoe mask ...
[02:33] <pleia2> and mucus nozzles
[02:33] <elky_work> mneptok: i didnt know you were hot for willem defoe
[02:35] <elky_work> but i'm glad someone understands the relevence of my analogy
[02:47] <mneptok> elky_work: i'll be your Ernest Borgnine if you'll be my Phyllis Diller ...
[02:54] <elky_work> haha
[03:18] <wickedpuppy> hi , how do i give access to a friend ? i am getting the invalid template error
[03:19] <Flannel> wickedpuppy: #ubuntu is the support channel, your best bet is to ask there.
[03:20] <wickedpuppy> thanks Flannel
[03:43] <Flannel> ASrock: How can we help you?
[03:48] <ASrock> i tried joining #ubuntu and i was told to come here to ask for help
[03:52] <elky_work> Flannel: um, wickedpuppy was asking how to give channel ops access to someone in #ubuntu-sg
[03:55] <jrib> was wondering how long that would take.  Anyway, goodnight all
[03:56] <jrib> ASrock: told by whom?
[03:57] <ASrock> "/topic"
[03:58] <jrib> ASrock: did you read it and follow the instructions?
[03:58] <ASrock> the instructions said to come here
[03:58] <jrib> ASrock: please read the topic one more time
[04:00] <ASrock> well i have to go now, i will look into it later
[04:00] <jrib> ok
[04:00] <ASrock> thanks neway though
[04:00] <jrib> night
[04:47] <flaccid> Riddell gave me operator status in #kubuntu a day or two ago and now it seems to have been removed. Can someone please have a look for me?
[04:50] <nalioth> swilkoskicksass: can we help you?
[04:50] <Hobbsee> nalioth: (he's been trolling in #Kubuntu under a different nick, and has already been silenced)
[04:50] <nalioth> Hobbsee: i know who he is  :)
[04:50] <Hobbsee> nalioth: oh good :)
[04:50] <flaccid> Hobbsee: can you help with my above enquiry please
[04:51] <nalioth> swilkoskicksass: is there something we can help you with?
[04:53] <mneptok> flaccid: the only people that should be on the #kubuntu op list are members of the Ubuntu IRC ops team.
[04:54] <mneptok> flaccid: Riddell may have given a +o through a mode change, but that does not make you a permanent op
[04:54] <nalioth> mneptok: they do things a bit different in #kubuntu
[04:54] <Hobbsee> nalioth: that being said, it's in it's correct status now.
[04:54] <flaccid> mneptok: i was able to op myself the other day in the channel, and no i cannot
[04:54] <flaccid> Hobbsee: what status is that?
[04:54] <mneptok> flaccid: you are not on the op list for that channel
[04:55] <flaccid> i was the other day
[04:55] <flaccid> who changed it?
[04:55] <mneptok> probably a member of the ops team.
[04:55] <nalioth> mneptok: i suspect flaccid is asking the wrong people here
[04:55] <flaccid>  so what is the status with me and #kubuntu atm?
[04:56] <Hobbsee> well, by looking at the access list, i see you are nto on it.
[04:56] <nalioth> flaccid: i'd ask whoever added you to the ACL
[04:56] <mneptok> flaccid: you are not on the channel's op list
[04:56] <flaccid> Riddell added me
[04:56] <nalioth> well, there you go
[04:56] <mneptok> flaccid: Riddell does not run the IRC ops team.
[04:57] <nalioth> mneptok: but he runs #kubuntu
[04:57] <mneptok> flaccid: and there are policies about how ops are approved and added. i'll remind Riddell of this.
[04:57] <flaccid> its a bit rude to be added finally, then have this revoked and nobody knows why
[04:57] <Hobbsee> nalioth: he is one who does, last i checked, too.
[04:57] <mneptok> nalioth: no, the Ubuntu IRC namespace is run by the CC and the IRC Council. not individuals.
[04:57] <nalioth> mneptok: riddells name is on the GCF, with the blessing of the CC
[04:58] <flaccid> so you are telling me the leader of Kubuntu did the wrong thing?
[04:58] <mneptok> nalioth: and if some channels aren;t abiding by this, then they need to come into compliance. :)
[04:58] <elky_work> flaccid: i'd say that riddell knows why. you should talk to him
[04:58] <flaccid> he has not been online recently
[04:58] <elky_work> flaccid: then you email him
[04:58] <flaccid> this is pathetic
[04:58]  * Hobbsee notes the various objections by various existing kubuntu operators probably had something to do with the decision, too.
[04:58] <mneptok> flaccid: if you care, an age-old IRC axiom is "the people most anxious for ops are usually the people least likely suited to have them." *shrug*
[04:59] <flaccid> mneptok: i wasnt anxious. i didn't ask. i was offered!
[04:59] <flaccid> the logs clearly show this
[04:59] <flaccid> Hobbsee: what decision and who by?
[04:59] <mneptok> flaccid: were you offered ops by the IRC Council?
[04:59] <elky_work> flaccid: and offers are able to be recinded, which i imagine is what has happened here
[04:59] <Hobbsee> mneptok: clearly, he got them temporarily.  After further discussion, between various current kubuntu operators, they were then removed.
[05:00] <mneptok> flaccid: i think you have the answer, then.
[05:00] <flaccid> Hobbsee: where is evidence of this and why was i not notified?
[05:00] <Hobbsee> that being said #kubuntu does need more ops, and the current ops team is shortlisting a list of people.
[05:01] <flaccid> this is not the point at all
[05:01] <mneptok> flaccid: what is the point you are trying to make, besides "i want my ops back!"? sorry, it's late, and i'm a bit dim.
[05:01] <flaccid> that it was unprofessional
[05:02] <mneptok> good thing we're volunteers and not being paid, then :)
[05:02] <flaccid> and that i deserve better than this
[05:02] <elky_work> i certainly wouldn't give you ops, given your past behaviour towards both users and ops.
[05:02] <flaccid> does jr not get paid by canonical ?
[05:02] <elky_work> flaccid: not everything canonical employees do within the community is paid
[05:02] <mneptok> but in seriousness, Riddell should not be giving people ops in a channel without informing the ops team. i think your complaint is with him, not us.
[05:02] <Hobbsee> elky_work: i believe that, and the fact that it hasn't stopped, is exactly why those powers were revoked.
[05:03] <mneptok> flaccid: *i* get paid by Canonical. but not to IRC.
[05:03] <elky_work> mneptok certainly isnt paid to talk here
[05:03] <flaccid> i guess most people are not willing to admit their mistakes
[05:03] <Hobbsee> mneptok: kubuntu is somewhat different - but they are expected to check with other ops that it's a good idea, etc.
[05:03] <elky_work> flaccid: the mistake was admitted by the removal of your ops. qed.
[05:03] <elky_work> oh darn
[05:04] <Hobbsee> elky_work++
[05:04] <mneptok> Hobbsee: the "is a bit different than..." needs to stop.
[05:04] <mneptok> look what happens.
[05:04] <elky_work> yeah
[05:04] <elky_work> i agree
[05:04] <mneptok> ennyhoo, i'm off for home
[05:04] <elky_work> we do kind of expect better from xubuntu
[05:04]  * mneptok | Metro > ~/
[05:05] <elky_work> mneptok: how long is your commute?
[05:08] <Hobbsee> mneptok: yeah, well.
[05:09] <Hobbsee> mneptok: ultimately, someone needs to step up and take more control of #kubuntu
[05:09] <Hobbsee> and liase with the ops team here
[05:09] <Hobbsee> hopefully someone like jussi01 on the council will do that
[05:09] <Hobbsee> anyway, i have other bits to do, so...
[05:10] <elky_work> ski trip? such a hard life
[05:43] <mneptok> wait, in Oz?
[05:43] <mneptok> waterskiing?
[05:43] <Flannel> mneptok: grass skiing
[06:13] <stdin> Myrtti: how come you automatically blame me when the bot breaks, I was in bed :)
[06:16] <bazhang> tester5, you understand why you were muted in #ubuntu?
[06:16] <tester5> hi, bazhang is being a petty tyrant and banning people who say one single line that is not on topic
[06:16] <tester5> after doing many lines that were helpful to others
[06:16] <tester5> i move for him to be stripped of the privileges he abuses
[06:16] <bazhang> tester5, you were offtopic and warned about it; then ignored and escalated it.
[06:17] <tester5> bazhang, there were like 3 or 4 of us saying silly things, I said one line and you picked on me and warned me
[06:17] <tester5> and again, it was one line after many where i was being helpful
[06:17] <bazhang> tester5, the others warned immediately stopped.
[06:18] <tester5> you discourage people who are helpful with your conduct
[06:18] <bazhang> !coc | tester5
[06:18] <tester5> bazhang, I already know you're petty, so I came here to bring this to others, not to you
[06:19] <tester5> and nice spamming of the code of conduct, you only sent it to me 20 seconds ago
[06:19] <elky_work> tester5: you've come in here for revenge, and that rarely ends well. this channel isnt about getting back at people.
[06:20] <nalioth> jpds: ubottu appears to have returned, can we get rid of ubot5, please?
[06:20] <elky_work> nalioth: just mute it here for now
[06:20] <nalioth> then it can't spout inputs from channels it's in
[06:21] <tester5> elky_work, but there shouldn't be anything for me to get revenge for. If you think I want revenge, then you aknowledge bazhang is a problem
[06:21] <stdin> nalioth: he said to /remove it when ubottu came back
[06:21] <elky_work> tester5: not at all. it means you have a victim complex going
[06:21] <tester5> elky_work, I think he overreacted and was unfair.
[06:21] <nalioth> stdin: ah
[06:23] <stdin> tester5: you were offtopic, disrespectful and abusing the bot, so you got a mute so we could talk about it. there's no need to come in here demanding someone be "stripped of the privileges"
[06:23] <elky_work> tester5: i'm yet to meet someone on the recieving end of op action from an op anywhere who thinks the action has actually been fair. if you were offtopic, you got what came to you.
[06:24] <tester5> stdin, i "was abusing the bot"? you mean, i made one single bot command, right? the tense you use suggests iteration...
[06:25] <stdin> tester5: was the factoid call for anything other than to provoke/annoy bazhang ?
[06:25] <elky_work> tester5: bot abuse can be merely using the bot to mock someone. if you got offtopic called and you tried to make fool of someone
[06:26] <tester5> elky_work, but I had been helping people for some time, and I think after helping people for an hour I should get one single line's worth of offtopic... obviously you admins have to stick together I see
[06:26] <stdin> just because you help people for a certain amount of time does not give you the right to disregard the channel rules/guidelines
[06:27] <tester5> I guess what I'm saying is he has some kind of zero-tolerance zeal to exercise his banning. I'm not saying that strictly I didn't post an offtopic sentence.
[06:28] <stdin> it was not a ban, but a mute
[06:28] <bazhang> you were muted only tester5
[06:28] <tester5> * ChanServ gives channel operator status to bazhang
[06:28] <tester5> * bazhang sets ban on<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[06:28] <tester5> * ChanServ removes channel operator status from bazhang
[06:28] <stdin> yes, a mute
[06:29] <Jordan_U> ubottu and ubot5 are both active in #ubuntu at once
[06:29] <stdin> see the '%' there, that makes it a mute on freenode
[06:29] <tester5> meh whatever, replace the word ban with mute in my complaint
[06:29] <tester5> same diff
[06:30] <stdin> a mute is used to get your attention so the problem can be resolved without a ban
[06:30] <bazhang> tester5<EMAIL_ADDRESS>has joined #ubuntu
[06:30] <bazhang> just now
[06:30] <tester5> oh now! wow!
[06:30] <tester5> is that forbidden after all?
[06:31] <stdin> he's just showing you that it's not a ban, because you can still join
[06:31] <tester5> yeah, obviously I figured that out when I did it
[06:32] <tester5> I see admin solidarity trumps actual moderate moderation
[06:33] <nalioth> tester5: the !love was uncalled for
[06:34] <stdin> if you would have just come in here and talked in a non-aggressive manner, then the mute would have probably been removed by now
[06:35] <tester5> stdin, I know that full well. I want to prevent unfair mutes in the first place, for all helpers in the channel, not just get unmuted for myself now
[06:36] <bazhang> tester5, yourself being the arbiter of what is fair and unfair?
[06:36] <stdin> in what way do you think it's unfair exactly?
[06:39] <tester5> stdin, I just told you how it's unfair. It was a very small percentage of my messages, the VAST majority of which were helping people. It was harmless, and it was a slightly silly single line in response to someone else's offtopic post. Granted it was off topic, in the above circumstances it shouldb't merit a mute or even a warning unless it seems as if I would continue the behavior. After all, the purpose of a mute or warning is to sto
[06:39] <tester5> p the behavior, and since I was showing so little up to that point, I should not be warned after a single line, and embarassed in the channel
[06:41] <bazhang> tester5, the issue was a user was being mocked; ckyle was asked to stop and did so. you were asked to remain on topic and failed to do so, going in the opposite direction with a mocking comment via the bot.
[06:42] <mneptok> tester5: "i help a lot of people" is not an free pas to break channel rules. just because i work hard all week doesn't mean i get to break the rules and leave 6 hours early on friday. and people that *really* want to help abide by the rules, not mock the ops that remind them to abide by the rules.
[06:42] <stdin> so we should only enforce the rules when it seems people will keep offending?
[06:43] <tester5> stdin, of course. The point of enforcement here is to keep the channel on topic, right? Muting someone only helps towards that goal if the muting prevents further rule breakages
[06:44] <stdin> if your problem is being embarrassed in the channel, then why would you try to do the same to bazhang ?
[06:44] <tester5> stdin, because he embarassed me, so i did to him, exactly.
[06:44] <mneptok> tester5: coming in here and demanding retribution is somewhat off-course from the CoC
[06:45] <mneptok> tester5: and there you go. retribution is a viable (and used) part of your defensive repetoire. i think the mute was warranted.
[06:45] <stdin> he embarrassed you by asking you stay on topic?
[06:45] <tester5> stdin, being "warned" by an admin is always embarassing, of course you must know that
[06:46] <mneptok> so then don't do anything that warrants a warning
[06:46] <tester5> mneptok, I argue that I didnt.
[06:46] <tester5> mneptok, no offense, but maybe you should learn to read before using irc.
[06:46] <stdin> so, we can't warn people to abide by the rules? so we should just kick/ban immediately?
[06:46] <mneptok> tester5: you saw someone get told not to use silly "mv blah /dev/foo" commands. and then *immediately repeated the behavior that got someone else a warning*
[06:47] <stdin> you'd rather we just went around removing anyone for any infraction instantly?
[06:47] <tester5> mneptok, I'm pretty sure he didn't get a warning, but if he did, I didn't see it
[06:47] <mneptok> 01:00 < ckyle> mv Dabbu /dev/null
[06:48] <mneptok> :00 < ckyle> mv Dabbu /dev/null
[06:48] <mneptok> 01:00 < ckyle> mv Dabbu /dev/null
[06:48] <mneptok> gah
[06:48] <mneptok> 01:00 < bazhang> ckyle, that is not helpful
[06:48] <mneptok> there it is
[06:48] <bazhang> at which he stopped right away.
[06:48] <mneptok> he was warned. he said "ok."
[06:49] <mneptok> then you immediately repeated that behavior. you also got a warning. then you used the bot.
[06:49] <jpds> nalioth: Done.
[06:49] <mneptok> trust me, my reading skills are fine.
[06:49] <mneptok> i'll give you a moment.
[06:49] <tester5> stdin, wow, I'm saying warn before kick/ban, yes... but not to be so quick to get warning people in the first place
[06:50] <stdin> so we should only warn people after repeatedly doing something wrong?
[06:50] <tester5> stdin, I'm not saying use different policies, I'm saying don't be so uptight
[06:51] <stdin> that just sends out the message, "you can get away with it, as long and you don't do it twice in one go"
[06:52] <stdin> the point of the matter is, you were in the wrong and, after a warning, continued to ignore the rules and so were muted
[06:52] <tester5> stdin, you should be concerned with making the channel the best it can be... it doesn't matter if somebody "gets away with" being silly once or twice while helping someone else. It's only when it is offending other users or making it difficult for others to get help that you should step in and do anything at all.
[06:54] <mneptok> uh ... offending other users?
[06:54] <mneptok> 01:43 < tester5> mneptok, no offense, but maybe you should learn to read before using irc.
[06:54] <tester5> Your overenforcement of the rules is not helping the channel have a good atmosphere, and that is really the whole reason the rules exist as guidelines
[06:54] <stdin> allowing users to break the rules will make the channel "the best it can be"?
[06:55] <stdin> it's a technical support channel, that's the atmosphere it should have
[06:55] <stdin> we have #ubuntu-offtopic for general chatter, and the rules are enforced appropriately
[06:55] <mneptok> !language
[06:55] <mneptok> !o4o
[06:55] <tester5> stdin, the rules exist for a reason. In law, the judges interpret WHY the rules are there, what their intent is... not just applying random rules. You are supposed to think like a judge as an admin.
[06:56] <tester5> mneptok, yeah, that was somewhat rude of me. But I was pretty frustrated. I just explained it about 8 times. Sorry for that "learn to read comment"
[06:57] <bazhang> tester5, and your !love was out of line as well.
[06:57] <mneptok> tester5: please don't make a habit of apologizing, hmmm? ;)
[06:58] <tester5> mneptok, I apologize for the rudeness, but I don't think my frustration was wrong, and I do think bazhang was overzealous in enforement
[06:58] <stdin> tester5: all the operators in #ubuntu are volunteers not judges, we take the responsibility of keeping the channel running because we want to, not because we get paid to
[06:58] <tester5> stdin, are you saying, I should not expect the quality of thought of a paid judge?
[06:59] <stdin> that wasn't exactly my point, but as a side-point, yes
[06:59] <stdin> of coerce you shouldn't
[06:59] <stdin> *course
[06:59] <bazhang> tester5, had you just said okay to my !ot, then none of this would have come about.
[07:00] <mneptok> tester5: wanna know what i think? i think you should understand mutes/bans usually last a day or two, unless the person is incorrigible here or elsewhere. with that in mind, you should stand up, walk 20 paces in any direction, and say "it's just IRC." i doubt we'll see you for at least 72 hours as the "WTF" moment fades, by which time the ban is gone.
[07:00] <stdin> we are not paid judges with years of legal training, so yes, we are not expected to act like legal judges
[07:01] <tester5> stdin, let me put it this way then. Jaywalking is technically illegal. If you guys were police officers, everyone who jaywalks would be thrown into prison for 24 hours. It's called moderation. think about it.
[07:02] <tester5> or would you revoke the license of everyone who goes 1 mph over the limit? no, they shoudn't even get a warning
[07:02] <mneptok> ok, i'm a dot. couch time with the ps3.
[07:02] <mneptok> "it's just irc"
[07:03] <stdin> following your example there, you were jaywalking, got a warning, then flipped off the police officer
[07:03] <tester5> mneptok, but "it's just irc" goes both ways... for the chatters, AND for the admins
[07:03] <nalioth> i think we're done here.  tester5, most mutes and bans don't last more than 24h
[07:04] <elky_work> tester5: the more you argue, the deeper you dig yourself
[07:04] <tester5> stdin, if that's the comparison, then bazhang is the police officer who hides on a deserted road waiting to pounce on any unsuspecting jaywalker... still a pretty pathetic police officer
[07:05]  * stdin is done with this
[07:05] <bazhang> tester5, come back in 24hours or whenever you have cooled off.
 its not criminal if there is a way to get around it in -ot
[07:09] <bazhang> he had the o4o nickname yesterday
[07:12] <nalioth> tester5: have a look at the /topic here, and !CoC and !guidelines please
[07:13] <tester5> nalioth, I know the rules, but thanks. I was talking about overzealous enforcement, not the rules themselves, which make a fair amount of sense.
[07:18] <bazhang> wow
[07:26] <elky_work> bazhang: do be more careful in future please
[07:26] <bazhang> elky_work, careful of what?
[07:27] <elky_work> bazhang: timing, making sure they've actually dug the hole
[07:27] <bazhang> a user was being mocked and the one being offtopic was asked to stop; this other fellow was equally warned then sent the !love command, at which point he was muted.
[07:28] <bazhang> elky_work, I agree; this situation was a bit out of the ordinary though.
[07:28] <bazhang> hard to accept others being mocked in channel.
[07:29] <elky_work> preemption is a luxury that seems to only cause us pain. yes, we're expected to do it, but do it very very carefully
[07:29] <bazhang> elky_work, you are very correct of course.
[07:30] <bazhang> hard to see that this fellow would escalate to the extremes that he did.
[07:30] <bazhang> he once proposed that there be a five-minute rule
[07:30] <elky_work> bazhang: it's even harder to explain troll-dar to someone who lacks it
[07:31] <bazhang> that operators should accept whatever happened within that five minutes and only then take action.
[07:31] <bazhang> clearly not workable in such a busy channel imo.
[07:32] <elky_work> definately not. but as i said, explain that to someone without troll-dar
[07:33] <bazhang> oh I see what you are saying.
[07:33] <bazhang> thanks.
[07:33] <elky_work> ;)
[08:12] <Myrtti> stdin because I know jussi01 too well and know he couldnt have broken it ;-)
[08:13] <stdin> btw, the council could have reset the bot
[08:13] <stdin> I believe jussi01 told them about the magic they can do a while ago
[08:29] <jussi01> !test
[08:30] <jussi01> morning all
[08:31] <jpds> Morning.
[08:33] <jussi01> jpds: ubot5is gone from all the other chans?
[08:33] <jpds> jussi01: Yead.
[08:33] <jussi01> :)
[08:38] <Malwir> just now:
 hi
 hi leute
[08:38] <Malwir> * gnubie has quit ("bye")
 !hi | Richi_
 Richi_: Hi!  I tried. Didn't know how to do it.
[09:02] <Myrtti> note: I was smart enough to *try*
[09:03] <stdin> afaik, kernels are never auto-removed, so it should be there
[09:03] <Myrtti> stdin: which part of "11:01 -'@: fresh installs, always." escaped you?
[09:03] <Myrtti> :-P
[09:04] <stdin> the part where it's early and I forget to read words on the shiny screen :p
[09:04] <bazhang> haha
[09:10] <bazhang> malwir is definitely tester5
[09:11] <stdin> he's digging
[09:12]  * bazhang lets the line reel out
[09:13] <Flannel> I don't think malwir is tester5
[09:13] <stdin> yes, I started it... after he started it :p
[09:14] <Flannel> tester5 is from Canada, malwir is from California
[09:14]  * stdin arrests him for jaywalking
[09:14] <bazhang> he seems almost incontrovertibly to be
 zOMG IM NOT ON TOPIC! I fear the ban police and bazhang coming hot on my tracks!!!
[09:14] <bazhang> exhibit A
[09:15] <stdin> you're supposed to be a judge, not a lawyer, remember? :p
[09:15] <bazhang> hehe
[09:15] <bazhang> not guilty then :)
[09:16]  * stdin goes on ebay to buy a gavel
[09:17]  * jussi01 hands stdin an e-gavel
[09:18] <stdin> !hammertime-#ubuntu-offtopic
[09:18] <bazhang> wait...who predicted it would be an easy day?
[09:18] <jussi01> hehe
[09:24] <Myrtti> nothing works
[09:24] <Myrtti> terminator breaks
[09:24] <Myrtti> my wifi breaks
[09:24] <Myrtti> my head breaks
[09:24] <Myrtti> my tap on touchpad is click breaks
[09:25] <Myrtti> my epiphany breaks
[09:25] <jpds> Long live devel releases.
[09:26] <Myrtti> oh, and my body doesn't work either.
[09:26] <Myrtti> damned piriformis
[09:28] <Myrtti> jpds: but I wanted to help
[09:28] <Myrtti> ;__;
[09:29] <jpds> Myrtti: File bugs?
[09:31] <Myrtti> jpds: I do, remember
[09:32] <Myrtti> I feel like gnawing my ankle like a small trapped animal
[09:32] <jpds> Oh, yeah.
[09:32] <Myrtti> and there epiphany crashed again
[09:32] <Myrtti> so the problem is to do with something about flash.
[09:33] <Myrtti> doesn't matter if it's swfdec, or flashplugin-nonfree
[09:33] <Myrtti> doesn't matter if it's firefox
[09:33] <Myrtti> it just crashes
[09:33] <Myrtti> and I want to cry.
[09:33] <Myrtti> thought - I don't
[09:38] <bazhang> Malwir> bazhang, and have you ever tried "sudo sudo nautilus"? It is even more powerful
[09:43] <jussi01> [11:41:31] <Malwir> god bazhang keeps trying to make me go offtopic in the regular ubuntu channel because he wants to ban me
[09:44] <bazhang> jussi01, hehe
[09:44] <bazhang> if he wants to vent in there that is okay by me
[09:45] <stdin> has it been 5 mins yet? you can ban after 5 mins apparently
[09:45] <bazhang> but the ot in #ubuntu is not okay.
[09:45] <bazhang> stdin, haha
[09:48] <Gary> I miss the days I used to try to mention all the offtopic subjects in one sentence
[09:49] <jussi01> I miss the days when Gary was Gazzak and very crazy (not to mention verbal)
[09:49]  * Myrtti huggles Gary
[09:49] <Gary> I'm still crazy
[09:49] <GazzaK> woot
[09:49] <jussi01> \o/
[09:49]  * Myrtti pinches GazzaK
[09:49] <Myrtti> *squeak*
[09:50]  * GazzaK Mooo's
[09:50] <jussi01> baaaa
[09:50] <jussi01> snuffle snuffle snuffle
[09:50] <GazzaK> verbal?  as in swearing, or as in talking too much?
[09:50] <jussi01> the latter
[09:51] <GazzaK> yeah, thats staffdom and too much work @ work for ya
[09:51] <jussi01> oh, them good old #ubuntuforums days....
[09:51] <GazzaK> lol, yeah
[09:51]  * Myrtti gets jussi01 and GazzaK a cup of milk of magnesia an a ticket to the memory lane tour
[09:52] <jussi01> hehe
[09:52] <bazhang> hahaha
[09:52] <GazzaK> so tempting
[09:53] <Myrtti> #ubuntu-spam?
[09:53] <Myrtti> hmmm
[09:54] <bazhang> hahaha
[10:18] <bazhang> malwir really wants to push this to the limits :)
[10:21] <GazzaK> push him back?
[10:22] <bazhang> his !ot finger will tire before I do :)
[10:22] <bazhang> he was in here earlier as tester5
[10:37] <bazhang> my favorite is when Myrtti uses the +m on -ot and talks about kittens and the like :)
[10:38] <Myrtti> ♥
[10:38] <Myrtti> it always works
[10:38] <bazhang> tis so funny
[10:38] <Myrtti> though, I use it only when there are too many people to be kicked
[10:38] <bazhang> haha
[10:38] <Myrtti> and the conversation has gone on in the wrong direction too long
[10:39] <bazhang> that *never* happens in there.
[10:40] <Myrtti> lol
[11:33] <Myrtti> now wait a minute
[11:35] <PriceChild> @btlogin
[11:35] <Myrtti> what's bigfuzzyjesus doing in -read-topic if he's not a victim?
[11:35] <PriceChild> remove him if so
[11:35]  * Myrtti is boggled
[11:52] <Myrtti> it's so nice and neat that everything in the world is in order again and GazzaK is GazzaK.
[11:58] <Tm_T> Myrtti: even l?l ;)
[11:59] <GazzaK> Myrtti: lol
[12:01] <Myrtti> Tm_T: yeah, even him
[12:27] <bazhang> bdunlap is suggesting deleting home partitions to malwir (aka tester5)
[12:41] <jrib> +ubottu?
[12:42] <Tm_T> ubottu: hi
[12:42] <Tm_T> <3
[12:42] <jrib> what did ubottu just respond to in #ubuntu?
[12:42] <Pici> jrib: spike1
[12:42] <jrib> +n'
[12:42] <jrib> oh
[12:42] <jrib> oops :)
[12:42] <Pici> I thought it was that at first too
[12:43] <Pici> er, although that wouldnt make any sense
[12:43]  * Pici gets more caffeine
[15:19]  * Pici sighs
[16:19]  * jrib sighs
[16:21] <jrib> in pm with user who would rather get banned instead of disabling public away messages
[16:21] <nalioth> c'est la vie
[16:25]  * jussi01 huggles jrib
[16:28] <nalioth> what is zope ?
[16:30] <Pici> I think its a 'web framework'
[16:30] <nalioth> mmmkay.
[16:31] <nalioth> i am reading zope.com (whatever) and am still pretty clueless
[16:58] <Myrtti> if I remember correctly, it's a piece of utter junk developed in python
[16:58] <Pici> And what ubuntu.com uses, I think.
[16:58] <nalioth> bada bing
[17:01] <nalioth> Myrtti: junk or not, what does it do?
[17:04] <Myrtti> "Zope is an open source web application server primarily written in the Python programming language. It features a transactional object database which can store not only content and custom data, but also dynamic HTML templates, scripts, a search engine, and relational database (RDBMS) connections and code."
[17:07] <nalioth> Myrtti: yeah, i read the website ( still don't know what it does )
[17:08]  * Myrtti donates her headache to nalioth so he would care about such minor things
[20:05] <jussi01> crap, got to fix my aliases here
[20:05] <Myrtti> oh my dear god
[20:06] <GazzaK> "i'm a real girl, honest, not a 40 year old truck driver"
[20:12] <ompaul> GazzaK, you are neither unless ... ohh forget it :)
[20:33] <LjL> look who's switched back to her, sorry his, nickname of old
[20:35] <ompaul> hehe
[20:35] <ompaul> both of ye
[20:35] <LjL> yeah i sort of realized after saying it
[20:37]  * Myrtti huggles LjL
[20:37] <Myrtti> I missed you ♥
[20:37] <LjL> i'm just a tired wolf
[20:37] <Myrtti> awwwww
[20:38] <Myrtti> I've always wanted something warm and snuggly to keep my toes warm :-}
[20:38] <Myrtti> polar bear would be the best.
[20:40] <LjL> perhaps next summer
[20:43]  * Myrtti gives LjL some reindeer jerky
[20:43] <mneptok> save the bones!
[20:43] <ompaul> Myrtti, that would be too high in protein for his part of the world
[20:44] <ompaul> mneptok, for?
[20:44] <ompaul> mneptok soup with carrots?
[20:44] <mneptok> pukka knife handles?
[20:44] <ompaul> ahhhhhaaaahhaaahaaaaa
[20:44] <LjL> anything that has protein is too high in protein for me
[20:46]  * Myrtti gives LjL some strawberries
[20:47] <Myrtti> poor wolfie
[20:47] <LjL> strawsberry's good
[21:21] <GazzaK> LjL: did you just like call me a her?
[21:21] <LjL> GazzaK: i corrected myself
[21:22] <GazzaK> there is a backspace key
[21:22] <GazzaK> :'(
[21:22]  * Mez puts his hand against GazzaK's forehead
[21:22] <Mez> You found your K!
[21:23] <LjL> sorry, i don't do it again
[21:23] <LjL> (poor GazzaK, she's so sensitive)
[21:23] <GazzaK> biatch :-D
[21:23] <Mez> Mrs. Kearley/
[21:24] <Mez> s_/_?_
[21:24] <Mez> aw :(
[21:24] <Mez> I scared her off :D
[21:24]  * Myrtti declares normality in the IRC Republic of Ubuntu
[21:24] <Myrtti> ^
[21:24] <LjL> normality? that would be an interesting experiment
[21:24] <Myrtti> LjL: you iz here, GazzaK iz here...
[21:24] <Myrtti> cuddlywuddlies ♥
[21:25] <GazzaK> yay
[21:26] <LjL> you know what's funny, i had to look up "sensitive". because i was confusing it with "sensible".
[21:26] <LjL> uhm wait it's not really funny
[21:31]  * Mez grouphugs LjL on his own
[21:31] <Myrtti> GROUPHUG!
[21:31]  * Myrtti runs
[21:31] <Myrtti> EEEEYYYEEEEEE
[21:31] <Myrtti> HUUUUGGG!
[21:31] <LjL> [22:31:36] <FloodBot1> charsets tried to join #ubuntu from a web gateway, but their host is banned
[21:32]  * Myrtti hugs both Mez and LjL
[21:32] <Myrtti> LjL: perhaps they should be banforwarded here?
[21:32] <Mez> interesting.
[21:32] <Myrtti> he was banned for a reason
[21:32]  * Mez gets squished into an LjL and Myrtti sandwhich
[21:32] <LjL> Myrtti: i have no idea, for a start i'd need to know why they were banned and who they are
[21:32] <Myrtti> @btlogin
[21:32] <LjL> i was just warning they were trying to sneak in
[21:33] <Myrtti> oh - right.
[21:33] <Myrtti> DAMN
[21:33] <Myrtti> no, wait
[21:33] <Myrtti> !ping
[21:33] <Myrtti> @login
[21:33] <Myrtti> er.
[21:33] <Myrtti> it's not working?
[21:35] <Mez> btlogin after login
[21:35] <Mez> @btlogin
[21:35] <Mez> no response
[21:35] <Mez> @login
[21:35] <Mez> @btlogin
[21:35] <Mez> response :D
[21:35] <Myrtti> wth.
[21:35] <Myrtti> @btlogin
[21:36] <GazzaK> @login
[21:36] <GazzaK> yay
[21:36] <Mez> LjL, when it has that message ( tried to join #ubuntu from a web gateway, but their host is banned ) it might be worth adding a message saying what hostmask is banned? (so we can use that to check, rather than have to try and match it)
[21:36] <Myrtti> 2008-08-24T02:03:51 <charsets> UBUNTU
[21:36] <Myrtti> 2008-08-24T02:03:53 <charsets> UBUNTU
[21:36] <Myrtti> 2008-08-24T02:03:56 <charsets> I LOVE UBUNTU
[21:36] <Myrtti> 2008-08-24T02:03:58 <charsets> UBUNTU
[21:36] <Mez> GazzaK, how long has it been since you've actually been active in here?
[21:36] <Mez> @bansearcg charsets
[21:36] <Mez> @bansearch charsets
[21:37] <GazzaK> erm, a while
[21:37] <LjL> Mez: ok
[21:37] <GazzaK> ahh, it might be the nick
[21:37] <Mez> GazzaK, that may be why ;)
[21:37] <Myrtti> it is
[21:37] <PriceChild> 'aoirthoir' rings a bell..
[21:37] <Myrtti> for a looooong time I kept wondering a) wth happened to GazzaK b) who the hell is Gary
[21:37] <ompaul> PriceChild, not a good one
[21:38] <LjL> ...
[21:38] <GazzaK> Myrtti: seriously?  awww
[21:38] <LjL> PriceChild: not a good one.
[21:38] <LjL> aoirtroll...
[21:38] <PriceChild> Myrtti: when did you work it out?
[21:38] <ompaul> LjL, +1
[21:38]  * Mez huggles Myrtti... it's that blond hairdye isn't it?
[21:38] <PriceChild> I forget what he actually did?
[21:38] <Myrtti> sometime this spring - am not sure
[21:39] <GazzaK> Myrtti: lol, thats like a year after I changed nicks
[21:39]  * Myrtti looks at Mez boggled - but I don't dye my hair blonde...
[21:39] <GazzaK> it's natural?
[21:40] <Myrtti> you should see my baby pictures
[21:40] <Mez> Myrtti, maybe not physically, but mentally ;)
[21:40] <Mez> you should see mine...
[21:40]  * Myrtti smacks Mez
[21:40] <Myrtti> you're even *now* blondER than me
[21:40] <GazzaK> oh, I'm a uncle again btw :-)
[21:40] <Mez> you know I enjoy that Myrtti
[21:41] <Mez> Myrtti, maybe in body, but not in soul ;)
[21:41] <Myrtti> that's true >___<
[21:41] <LjL> thought aunt
[21:41] <LjL> sorry i don't even really know why i'm picking on you today
[21:42] <Mez> LjL, cause it's fun?
[21:42] <LjL> ah... uhm, yes.
[21:42] <GazzaK> LjL: 'cos you want a good spanking?
[21:42] <LjL> nah, mez must have it right
[21:42] <Mez> GazzaK, no, it's me who enjoys that...
[21:42] <Mez> (but not from you *backs up against a wall*
[21:43]  * GazzaK spanks Mez
[21:43]  * Myrtti pokes GazzaK with The Pink Fluffy Pen of Poking™
[21:43] <Myrtti> *SQUEEEAK*
[21:43] <GazzaK> where's the hob of seee
[21:43] <LjL> in the sea
[21:43] <Mez> Myrtti's the only person allowed to spank me... well, maybe christel too
[21:44] <ompaul> home by the sea
[21:44] <ompaul> ohhh
[21:44] <ompaul> genesis
[21:46] <Mez> http://is.gd/236D <-- told you I was cute when I was a kid.
[21:46] <Mez> What the hell happened...?
[21:47] <GazzaK> did you have a car accident?
[21:49] <Mez> aw... and here I was hoping someone would pipe up and be nice for once
[21:49]  * Mez slaps GazzaK
[21:50]  * Myrtti decides to unveil her baby pic
[21:51]  * PriceChild wonders what channel he's stumbled into
[21:52] <Myrtti> kyuuute
[21:53] <Myrtti> mmmm cherry chewies
[21:53] <Myrtti> http://www.flickr.com/photos/myrtti/2809661268/ <--
[21:53] <Myrtti> BLONDE
[21:54] <GazzaK> cor, you look innocent there
[21:54] <Myrtti>  and 25 years later, here I am
[21:55] <Myrtti> learning Python and eating cherry candy accompanied by two guinea pigs
[21:58] <Myrtti> Laku stares at me, I think he doesn't approve me eating candy
[22:02] <mneptok> woop woop woop
[22:02] <Myrtti> oh noes, it's a mneptok.
[22:02] <Myrtti> run.
[22:02] <ompaul> PriceChild, the one where people are real and the conversation false?
[22:03] <Pici> Going to vermont for the weekend, if the weathers nice I wont be on irc too much
[22:03] <Pici> cyas :)
[22:03] <Myrtti> ta-tah
[22:03]  * Pici waves
[22:04] <LjL> just when i've come back to this ugly sweaty city, he goes to vermont >:
[22:06] <Mez> 00.
[22:06] <Mez> .010.
[22:06] <Mez> Sorry, was mothsquishing
[22:06] <LjL> ugh
[22:06] <LjL> !overshare
[22:08] <Myrtti> http://www.simonpanrucker.com/beans.html
[22:17] <LjL> anyone familiar with partition table issues, steveire in #ubuntu definitely has a problem
[23:17] <jussio1> ssh on ipod touch :D
[23:19] <Mez> jussi01, jailbroken?
[23:56]  * Myrtti yawns


[00:45] <paran> The patch for bug 345397 in evdev 1:2.1.1-1ubuntu4 causes a bad regression for me, key repeat is disabled for certain arrow keys.
[00:45] <paran> A commend warned that this regression had been observed with this patch on Intrepid. I made a comment there, should I also report the regression as a new bug?
[00:52] <bryce> paran, yep
[00:57] <paran> bryce: ok, will do that tomorrow then.
[03:49] <JanC> bryce: does Ubuntu support multiseat systems?  ツ
[04:12] <crdlb> several people in +1 have said that their xorg.conf files are blank today
[04:12] <crdlb> is this intentional?
[04:43] <JanC> crdlb: Xorg files are supposed to be (almost) blank since intrepid
[04:43] <crdlb> sure, the skeleton is great
[04:43] <crdlb> but I got the impression it was _completely_ blank
[04:44] <JanC> well, that shouldn't really matter AFAIK
[04:44] <crdlb> it matters a lot :)
[04:44] <JanC> how?
[04:44] <crdlb> because it makes trivial additions non-trivial
[04:45] <JanC> most people shouldn't make "trivial additions"
[04:45] <crdlb> eg changing the AccelMethod or enabling AccelDFS
[04:45] <crdlb> there's no reason not to include the skeleton
[04:46] <JanC> and it's easy enough to recreate a skeleton xorg.conf if you really need it
[04:46] <crdlb> it's a pointless extra step
[04:46] <crdlb> the skeleton doesn't break any of the autoconfig
[04:46] <JanC> not really, as for most people it's a pointless step to parse xorg.conf  ;)
[04:47] <crdlb> huh?
[04:48] <JanC> why parse a skeleton xorg.conf?
[04:49] <crdlb> who is the implied subject in that sentence? X?
[04:49] <JanC> X
[04:49] <JanC> most people don't even know xorg.conf exists
[04:50] <crdlb> and they can stay ignorant even if it does exist
[04:50] <JanC> and AFAIK configuration tools will create it if needed
[04:51] <crdlb> there are no configuration tools to add Option "AccelDFS" (and there shouldn't be)
[04:51] <crdlb> but that doesn't mean you should be wasting my time by not including the skeleton
[04:52] <JanC> if there is no reason for configuration tools to set that option, there is no need for that option
[04:52] <JanC> except for debugging maybe
[04:52] <JanC> and it's not me that decides  ;)
[04:52] <crdlb> the option makes EXA usable on my GPU, but it cannot be enabled by default due to buggy hardware that I don't have
[04:53] <JanC> right, so the blacklisting should be refined
[04:53] <crdlb> ...
[04:54] <crdlb> you have yet to suggest a reason not to include the skeleton
[04:54] <JanC> ... or to include it
[04:55] <JanC> I don't really care, except maybe parsing it takes time but is useless for most people
[04:56] <crdlb> parsing it is negligable
[04:57] <JanC> well, I still have it, so duno  :P
[04:57] <JanC> worst case you have to recreate it once
[04:57] <crdlb> yes, which multiplies by every single user I have to tell it to
[04:57] <JanC> dpkg-reconfigure will take care of that I suppose
[04:57] <crdlb> it does, indeed
[04:58] <JanC> crdlb: the users you should tell that to should be a tiny minority, otherwise this should be configured automaticly (and if not, it's a bug)
[04:59] <crdlb> this is the real world :)
[05:00] <JanC> well, help work on getting it fixed in the next version then (although I haven't heard anybody who really needed that option to get a working system, maybe that depends on what you want to do)
[05:01] <crdlb> I just fundamentally don't see the logic in not including an xorg.conf
[05:01] <crdlb> I foolishly assumed it was a bug ...
[05:01] <JanC> and by help I mean: report bugs & help testing & help nagging when it's still possible to change things ;)
[05:02] <JanC> the ultimate goal is to get rid of xorg.conf, so everything that still needs it is a bug  ;)
[05:03] <crdlb> no, the ultimate goal is to not need the xorg.conf for anything
[05:03] <crdlb> which is perfectly served by installing a static xorg.conf with the distro
[05:04] <JanC> if you don't need it, then it's useless to install it
[05:04] <crdlb> it does not follow that you should delete it, though
[05:07] <JanC> maybe an empty file with only a comment about running dpkg-reconfigure would be useful for now
[05:07] <JanC> for those people who don't read upgrade notes etc.  ;)
[05:09] <crdlb> the skeleton is 11 lines :)
[05:12] <JanC> well, I don't think anything is gonna change before tomorrow  ;)
[05:12] <crdlb> of course :)
[05:13] <crdlb> stop the release!!!
[05:13] <JanC> there are much more serious issues than this  :-(
[05:13] <crdlb> intel
[05:14] <JanC> right, as well as AMD/ATI AFAIK   :p
[05:14] <JanC> well, maybe less than intel
[05:14] <crdlb> the radeon driver is quite nice this cycle :)
[05:15] <JanC> duno, I have only intel (3x)
[05:15]  * crdlb has no intel
[05:16] <JanC> anyway, I'm gonna sleep, 6:15 am here  ;)
[05:16] <crdlb> skip it ;>
[12:16] <mnemo> "Intel Linux Driver Kills The Netbook Experience"
[12:16] <mnemo> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NzIyMA
[12:16] <mnemo> sadly I have to agree :(
[16:58] <apw> jbarnes, about?
[16:58] <jbarnes> apw: yeah
[16:59] <apw> jbarnes, just had some feedback on the new mchbar patches, which i refactored onto our kernel, positive
[16:59] <apw> so i'll be cleaning those up and getting back with you 'Tested-by ...' like
[16:59] <jbarnes> great I was just typing that but you beat me :)
[16:59] <jbarnes> I guess you can just reply to bjorn with the cleaned up version that worked for you and hopefully he'll just send it upstream
[17:00] <apw> also just been talking about the other 965 hangs ... and there are rumours of swapping being involced
[17:00] <apw> i was wondering if the bit 17 swizzle fixups could be involved?
[17:00] <jbarnes> supposedly 965 doesn't generally have bit 17 issues
[17:00] <jbarnes> but it's a possibility
[17:00] <jbarnes> (the swapping I mean)
[17:01] <jbarnes> should be easy enough to test... just need a memory hog to run at the same time
[17:01] <apw> can we tell if we have swizzling there from the dumps we get?
[17:01] <jbarnes> I don't think we provide that info right now...
[17:01]  * jbarnes looks
[17:05] <jbarnes> yeah I think we'd have to add some printks to the mchbar checking code, but 965 doesn't have bit 17 swizzling
[17:05] <jbarnes> doesn't mean the new swap code isn't causing problems though...
[17:17] <bryce> morning
[17:17] <jbarnes> morning
[17:18] <bryce> jbarnes: I realized I didn't run with the dri option in the last couple dumps I gave you... will try again today if it still seems relevant
[17:18] <jbarnes> ok thanks
[17:37] <bryce> tjaalton: I've been mulling over setting up an xorg-updates ppa or some such, with newer drivers for jaunty.
[17:37] <bryce> tjaalton: maybe as a ppa in xorg-edgers; it seems to fit well with what tormod does
[17:38] <bryce> tjaalton: sound interesting to you?
[17:43] <mnemo> bryce: would you then be willing to push those packages to main if they prove to be reeeally solid ?
[17:43] <bryce> mnemo: well...  they couldn't go to jaunty since that's released
[17:44] <bryce> mnemo: but yes, they'd be pushed to karmic main as well
[17:44] <mnemo> ok, there is no way xorg/intel driver gets updated through SRU/propsed and so no?
[17:44] <bryce> right, only cherrypicked bug fixes
[17:44] <mnemo> right
[17:45] <mnemo> im gonna be on karmic anyway
[17:45] <mnemo> i want UXA to be rock solid for 9.10
[17:45] <bryce> in certain, very very rare circumstances, an entire driver can go in as SRU, but only like if the driver was entirely busted and non-functional for everyone
[17:46] <mnemo> yea I guess intel in jaunty is bad but not nearly bad enough
[17:47] <bryce> but my idea with xorg-updates is to provide a way for jaunty users to get around this by getting new drivers to play with
[17:48] <bryce> another idea along with that, is that we could "test run" driver updates there for karmic, before putting them into main
[17:48] <bryce> so if there are like major issues, we can identify them there and then hold off on doing the update
[17:48] <bryce> but that's just a side idea; dunno if it's worth the extra effort
[17:49] <mnemo> I think part of the problem is that intel ddx and mesa is not well tested with .28 kernel... upstream is testing more carefully with .29 right now and .30 soon
[17:50]  * bryce nods
[17:50] <mnemo> a karmic PPA would be very nice though
[17:51] <jbarnes> 2.6.28 should actually be ok... but dri1 & exa don't get much love these days
[17:51] <mnemo> bryce: we're moving to UXA right away in karmic right?
[17:51] <bryce> yeah I'm unsure if we did an xorg-unstable, if it should be driver/mesa updates only, or also include new xserver, kernel, etc.
[17:52] <bryce> to keep it simple maybe just stick with major driver updates (e.g. -intel 2.7, etc.)
[18:12] <tjaalton> bryce: yeah, sounds fine
[19:29] <bryce> jbarnes: system still freezes with that buffer reuse option turned off
[19:29] <jbarnes> bryce: arg
[19:29] <bryce> jbarnes: want the gpu data?
[19:30] <jbarnes> if you have the INTEL_DEBUG=batch output, yes
[19:30] <bryce> is there a way to set that by default?  having to remember to restart gdm with that set each time is a PITA
[19:31] <bryce> i.e. no this does not have that set
[19:32] <jbarnes> you'd have to put it in one of the X session files i guess
[19:32] <bryce> sometimes I wonder if you guys make up these options just to keep testers busy ;-)
[19:33] <bryce> is there a way to check post-boot whether the option is in effect?
[19:34] <jbarnes> bryce: yeah if we delay fixing the bug long enough the chip stops shipping :)
[19:34] <jbarnes> dunno about a post-boot check no
[19:34] <jbarnes> aside from seeing if you're getting tons of log output
[19:35] <bryce> that would do.  log output in what file?
[19:40] <jbarnes> the gdm log iirc
[19:40] <jbarnes> like albert23 had
[19:41] <bryce> ok
[19:41] <bryce> is that gdm log file useful to you to include in the data dumps?  If so I'll add it to the guide.
[19:41] <jbarnes> if it has the batch output, otherwise it's not interesting
[19:42] <bryce> is the batch output included in intel_gpu_dump or /sys/kernel/debug/dri/0/i915* or dmesg as well, already?
[19:43] <jbarnes> no the INTEL_DEBUG=batch option makes dri clients dump a bunch of stuff while they execute
[19:43] <jbarnes> which just ends up on stderr I think for that client
[19:44] <jbarnes> so if you start gdm that way its log will have all the batch output
[19:44] <jbarnes> for anything X does anyway
[19:44] <bryce> whoa, no kidding, that's a lot of data
[19:46] <bryce> (fwiw, I just stuck it in /etc/init.d/gdm directly)
[19:46] <jbarnes> cool
[19:46] <jbarnes> yeah albert23's last attachment was several megs
[19:48] <bryce> I see that an easy way to tell that it's in effect is that it slows the system down noticeably
[19:51] <bryce> jbarnes: when setting dri options with driconf, do those take effect instantly or only on reboot?
[19:51] <jbarnes> they'll take effect on newly started dri clients
[19:52] <jbarnes> any running clients won't pick up the change though afaik
[19:53] <bryce> ok, now have a freeze with the dri option, your patch, and INTEL_DEBUG=batch.
[19:53] <jbarnes> cool
[19:55] <bryce> intel_context.c:527: Batchbuffer flush with 404b used
[20:18] <bryce> hrm, the compressed tarball with the gdm.log is 100mb
[20:19] <bryce> 74 mb to be specific
[20:21] <jbarnes> can you put it somewhere?
[20:22] <jbarnes> btw I hope you can meet w/anholt, would probably go much faster
[20:24] <bryce> waiting on it to upload to launchpad... might be a while
[20:25] <bryce> meanwhile, snag it from:  http://www2.bryceharrington.org:8080/files/i915_debugfs_bwh6.tgz
[20:30] <bryce> jbarnes: ^
[20:30] <jbarnes> thanks
[20:37] <jbarnes> bryce: wow almost a gig uncompressed :)
[20:37] <bryce> good compression ratio... lotsa 0x00000 ;-)
[20:37] <bryce> yeah it had to run for a bit before locking up
[20:38] <bryce> it locked up while the switch-desktop OSD was showing, fwiw
[20:41] <bryce> jbarnes: there is a Canonical meet up downtown Portland this friday that I'll be at, that anholt could come to if it would help for him to sit in front of the affected hw
[20:41] <bryce> jbarnes: at least 3 people with affected systems will be there
[20:50] <jbarnes_> bryce: ok cool
[20:50] <bryce> forwarding the invite
[20:55] <bryce> heh, compiz is starting to get piles of "compiz suddenly stopped working!!1!" bug reports
[21:08] <mnemo> bryce: is there any way I could subscribe to all incoming intel ddx and mesa bugs? i'm thinking it would be useful to help out with triage etc
[21:08] <bryce> mnemo: yes, you can get this by joining the ubuntu-x-swat team
[21:09] <bryce> mnemo: that will actually subscribe for all of the X bug reports, so you may have to use a filter to only include the source package(s) you actually care about
[21:11] <mnemo> bryce: cool, I requested to join now
[21:11] <bryce> awesome, I've approved you
[21:12] <mnemo> thanks
[21:22] <mnemo> bryce: you use the "X-Launchpad-Bug: sourcepackage=blah" mailheader to sort the mail right?
[21:23] <bryce> mnemo: exactly
[21:24] <bryce> X-Launchpad-Message-Rationale also can be useful in narrowing down what gets put in your mailbox, but sourcepackage= should take care of th ebulk of it
[21:27] <mnemo> right.. I use thunderbird so im thinking maybe I can sort into folders based on package and then color the mails based on bug status or something like that
[21:32]  * bryce nods
[21:32] <bryce> I use mutt, and colorize based on status changes
[21:33] <bryce> mnemo: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/156128/
[21:34] <bryce> heya tormod
[21:35] <bryce> tormod: I was thinking of an idea sort of inspired from xorg-edgers, to set up a ppa for jaunty updates, but only for stable releases, so people who want newer drivers but not risky git updates have a place to snag them
[21:36] <bryce> tormod: pretty bare bones so far, but it will be living at https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-x-swat/+archive/x-updates
[21:49] <tormod> hi bryce! that's exactly what we have in ~intel-gfx-testing
[21:50] <tormod> I have just been waiting for 2.7.1...
[21:51] <bryce> tormod: oh, didn't realize that was still being maintained
[21:51] <tormod> (looking) I see you go beyond intel
[21:51] <bryce> yeah
[21:51] <bryce> should we merge these two things?
[21:51] <tormod> well maintained... I am waiting for a "stable" version :)
[21:52] <bryce> have you found 2.7.0 not stable enough?
[21:52] <tormod> no, just the intel x.y.0 experience
[21:52]  * bryce nods
[21:53] <bryce> well, a secondary reason I have for setting this up is to pre-test packages we're considering for karmic, to help us find major issues before uploading
[21:53] <tormod> the only reason for having a separate intel repo is that intel needs newer libdrm, the other drivers usually don't
[21:53] <bryce> er, before uploading to karmic
[21:54] <jcristau> tormod: also intel breaks more than others :)
[21:54] <tormod> otherwise we can just use your xup and forget about intel-gfx-testing
[21:55] <tormod> jcristau: true, it should be kept isolated, and be touched with gloves :)
[21:55] <bryce> tormod: I think it'd be fine to carry newer libdrm's in xup... in fact you can see I already pulled in debian's libdrm 2.4.9 :-)
[21:56] <bryce> it's the kernel dependencies that I worry most about...
[21:57] <tormod> yes those are a pita - I guess the "mainline kernels" repo will be popular
[21:58]  * tormod runs 2.6.30rc3 btw
[21:58] <bryce> I talked to apw about getting a .dsc for 2.6.30-rc2, although not sure if he's had time to set it up
[21:59] <bryce> for xup I'm thinking of restricting it to only updates that can run on the given series' kernel and xserver
[21:59] <tormod> yeah that's a good rule
[21:59] <bryce> but updates to mesa, lib's, etc. are okay
[21:59] <jcristau> i'd be pissed if the driver stopped working with "old" kernels. but maybe that's already happened..
[22:00] <tormod> for the time being this == xorg-edgers
[22:00] <bryce> if we find we need something more than that, then maybe that calls for a specialized ppa, something in xorg-edgers perhaps
[22:02] <mnemo> jcristau: since eric is ripping out EXA/DRI1 I guess it will soonish run only on GEM kernels (which I think is .28 and later) .. not sure when they will merge the cleanup branch to master though
[22:02] <jcristau> yeah
[22:02] <jcristau> but i need partial upgrades from lenny to work. that means .26...
[22:04] <tormod> can it not run without acceleration? sounds like it dead slow anyway
[23:43] <bryce> jbarnes: another dri_debug dump with INTEL_DEBUG - https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/365299
[23:44] <jbarnes> bryce: ok thanks
[23:44] <jbarnes> god interactive perf sucks when a build is going on


[18:51] <komputes> I was unable to install i386 RC5 mainline kernel on a system which currently uses a pae kernel (4GB+ RAM). Is anyone available to help with this issue? http://pastebin.ca/1907018
[23:56] <looking4b> I am trying to find out which uart/serial driver my kernel build is using for my embedded system. How can I do this?
[23:56] <looking4b> my map file tells me
[23:56] <looking4b> 0x400b57a8 0x2fe26 drivers/built-in.o 0x400ca81c uart_console_write
[23:56] <looking4b> but I do not know what built-in consist of
[23:57] <looking4b> there is no built-in.c or anything like that


[00:59] <jj-afk> back on later
[01:11] <lifeless> whats the difference in a -server image?
[01:13] <jj-afk> the -server image is configured a little different
[01:13] <jj-afk> Hz = 100, and things like that
[01:16] <lifeless> cool, thanks
[02:34] <alex_mayorga> Hello all and thanks for your work on Ubuntu
[02:34] <alex_mayorga> I keep getting kernel panics as described on bug 693828
[02:34] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 693828 in linux (Ubuntu) "Fatal exception in interrupt: Kernel panic on 2.6.37-10-generic and 2.6.37-11-generic (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/693828
[02:35] <alex_mayorga> can someone help me to pinpoint the problem?
[09:08]  * apw loooks
[14:56] <cnd> sconklin, bjf[afk], if I remember right you two are handling stable kernels now?
[14:57] <cnd> there's a patch queued up for .36 stable that should be applied to lucid and maverick to fix load avg calculations
[14:57] <cnd> will that automatically be applied, or should I forward the patch to the list?
[14:57] <tgardner> cnd, email it on the list?
[14:57] <cnd> ok
[14:57] <tgardner> cnd, it'll happen automagically if its in stable (eventually)
[14:58] <cnd> ok, I'll forward the notification just to be safe
[14:58] <tgardner> cnd, has it bubbled down to .32 and .35 stable?
[14:59] <cnd> tgardner, I don't know, I just got an email stating that it's queued up for .36
[14:59] <cnd> I'll try to check git.kernel.org
[14:59] <tgardner> cnd, I thought we were carrying some form of that patch as a SAUCE patch in older kernels
[14:59] <cnd> tgardner, one of the two patches
[15:00] <cnd> this one is the second
[15:00] <tgardner> ah
[15:00] <cnd> it took a long time for the second one to be fixed
[15:00] <cnd> apparently it was pretty hairy
[15:00] <tgardner> maybe its not suitable for stable
[15:01] <cnd> well, load avg is severely broken without it :)
[15:01] <cnd> on some systems
[15:01] <cnd> it fixes the issue jj found
[15:01] <cnd> on ec2 systems
[15:02] <cnd> hmmm... I can't find where the .35 and .32 patch queues are found
[15:02] <tgardner> cnd, thats right, we dropped your patch on xen flavours because it caused regressions, right?
[15:02] <cnd> I don't know how it all works now with the stable process change
[15:02] <cnd> yeah
[15:02] <cnd> this fixes that regression
[15:02] <tgardner> cnd, yeah, we're a bit confused about where stable kernels are ending up as well
[15:03] <cnd> tgardner, I'll just forward the new patch to the list to be sure, with an explanation of what's going on
[15:28] <bjf> test
[15:28] <tgardner> bjf, test for echo
[15:28] <bjf> test succeeded :-)
[19:19]  * jjohansen -> dr. apt
[19:27]  * tgardner --> lunch
[20:04] <cking> yawn
[20:04] <JFo> yep
[20:14] <cking> beer
[20:16] <JFo> :(
[23:12] <smallfoot-> why isnt Linux kernel 2.6.37 available for Maverick 10.10 in the kernel ppa?
[23:19] <smallfoot-> why isnt Linux kernel 2.6.37 available for Maverick 10.10 in the kernel ppa?
[23:46] <apw> smallfoot-, the kernel-ppa only contains builds for lucid, as that is the only place we are targetting backports
[23:47] <smallfoot-> what?
[23:47] <smallfoot-> but im not using lucid
[23:47] <smallfoot-> im using maverick
[23:48] <smallfoot-> and i want 2.6.37


[00:00] <floating> theres a long list of .so files, and its quite slow to check them one by one prior the install
[00:04] <floating> oh that ldd lkeyholetv output stuff... it says not found only on libglitz.so.1
[00:05] <floating> i wonder how i install libglitz.so.1   not with apt-get at least ;o
[00:06] <floating> synaptic package manager does not find libglitz.so.1
[00:14] <TheSheep> floating: libglitz1 or libglitz-glx1
[00:15] <floating>  libglitz.so.1
[00:15] <floating> 	libz.so.1 => /usr/lib/libz.so.1 (0xb7772000)
[00:15] <floating> 	libglitz.so.1 => not found
[00:15] <floating> etc
[00:33] <floating>  libglitz1-dev: Depends: libx11-dev but it is not installable
[00:33] <floating>                  Depends: xlibmesa-gl-dev but it is not installable or
[00:33] <floating>                           libgl-dev but it is not installable
[00:33] <floating> i need to install libglitz1-dev but i get this... do i need some repos ?
[00:48] <floating> how to add repo that has http://packages.debian.org/testing/libdevel/libglitz1-dev or those dependencies
[00:48] <floating> deb http://packages.debian.org/testing/libdevel/libglitz1-dev in sources.list ?
[00:54] <Dezine> I'm trying to install xubuntu from ubuntu via install the xubuntu-desktop package. I select it is a session but when It logs in it's just a blank screen
[00:54] <TheSheep> Dezine: kill it with alt+ctrl+backspace and try again
[00:55] <TheSheep> Dezine: there is a race condition that leads to this block sometimes, it's fixed (well, worked around) for 8.10
[00:55] <Dezine> Well restarting doesn't work, I have the latest version of ubuntu
[00:56] <TheSheep> the lates is 8.04
[00:56] <TheSheep> latest
[00:56] <TheSheep> they fixed it for the next version
[00:56] <Dezine> I see what you mean
[00:56] <Dezine> For Intrepid
[00:57] <TheSheep> it's actually there since dapper, it's just very random
[00:57] <TheSheep> and it's in ubuntu too
[01:03] <Dezine> It decided to work, interesting
[01:05]  * pronto is Away, Reason: ( food ) | Since: ( Wednesday, June 25, 2008. 17:16:19 ) Xlack v2.1
[01:18] <dabud> hi i need some help getting xubuntu to recognize a hard drive
[01:18] <dabud> it is listing it as a FAT   but I know it is an ntfs
[01:20] <dabud> it gives me a permission denied error  when i try to access it
[01:25] <dabud> hi xbj9000
[01:28] <dabud> how would i change it from FAT  to ntfs
[01:28] <xbj9000> oh hi dabud
[01:28] <dabud> and why wud it see it as a FAT  when it is an ntfs
[01:28] <xbj9000> I was wondering what happened with your issue
[01:29] <dabud> well  i got sidetracked  had to be away for a few days
[01:29] <xbj9000> can you remind me what we were working on?  it's been about a week I think
[01:29] <dabud> yes about that
[01:30] <dabud> i have a hardrive   [ide]  that xubuntu is seeing as a fat  altho it is a ntfs
[01:30] <dabud> i cannot access this   it gives me a permission denied error
[01:31] <zoredache> what do you mean specifically when you say you cannot access it?
[01:31] <dabud> i went back into windows  and confirmed that it is ntfs
[01:32] <xbj9000> hmm
[01:32] <xbj9000> and last time we talked you were setting up the entry for fstab right?
[01:32] <dabud> i mean when i double click on the desktop shortcut or anywhere else i get an error  "Permission Denied"
[01:32] <dabud> yes xjb9000
[01:32] <dabud> xbj9000
[01:33] <xbj9000> well did you set it to fat in the fstab line?
[01:33] <xbj9000> if you are sure it is ntfs you should make sure that is reflected in fstab
[01:33] <DaveKong> Is it normal to have more than one of the same process running?
[01:33] <dabud> it was fat  to begin with   i don't know how it got that way in the fstab     can i changeIt?
[01:34] <xbj9000> yes
[01:34] <xbj9000> dabud yes I mean
[01:34] <dabud> k  i will change it there
[01:37] <xbj9000> dabud you should change where is says "vfat" to "ntfs-3g"
[01:38] <dabud> k   i am trying to remember code to open fstab  sudo gedit  something or other
[01:38] <xbj9000> sudo mousepad /etc/fstab
[01:38] <dabud> k
[01:39] <dabud> /dev/sdc1   /media/music   ntfs-3g   iocharset=utf8,umask=000   0   0
[01:40] <dabud> that is the whole line  does it look right?
[01:40] <xbj9000> yes
[01:40] <xbj9000> is that what it already was?
[01:40] <dabud> do i have to reboot for it to work?
[01:40] <xbj9000> yes
[01:40] <dabud> no  i changed it to ntfs-3g   from vfat
[01:40] <xbj9000> ok
[01:41] <dabud> k i will reboot now   bbiab   ty
[01:41] <xbj9000> sure
[01:48] <marek`> hello
[01:48] <Odd-rationale> !hi | marek`
[01:49] <marek`> thanks :]
[01:49] <marek`> i am trying to get a dual monitor dual video card setup working with one internal intel integrated graphics card and one pci ati rage card
[01:50] <marek`> zoredache advised me to make sure that i could get both video cards working before trying to set up dual so i did
[01:50] <dabud> it didn't work  xbj9000
[01:51] <marek`> but when i put them together and enable xinerama only the intel card will output anything
[01:51] <dabud> still get 'failed to open file'  Permission denied'
[01:51] <marek`> the pci ati card only shows "ATI MACH64 BIOS P/N 113-40102-101" on the screen
[01:52] <xbj9000> dabud  http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/mountwindows
[01:52] <xbj9000> you may like this :  http://www.ubuntugeek.com/widows-ntfs-partitions-readwrite-support-made-easy-in-ubuntu-feisty.html
[01:53] <dabud> k  ty  i will try  those
[01:55] <dabud> the second one  i have done already  it is how i can access my winxp  drive
[01:58] <marek`> cant you just do mount -t ntfs /dev/hda# /mnt ?
[01:58] <dabud> i already have these installed  and they work just fine for my other drives
[01:59] <dabud> also  it used to work ok for this drive too   but when ever i would boot back into windows it would get messed up
[02:55] <Mecha25> does anyone know if it is possible to put xubuntu on a thumb drive?  what size thumb-drive would be needed?
[02:56] <Odd-rationale> Mecha25: yes it is possible. you will need at least a 2gb for a live install. and a 4gb for a full install.
[02:57] <Odd-rationale> Mecha25: but i would suggest DSL or puppy linux (my favorite) if you are planning to run off a usb...
[02:57] <Mecha25> ugh.... I only have a 4gb stick, I'm running puppy linux on it and liking it, but I wanted to see if there was something more full-featured
[02:57] <Mecha25> mainly, puppy is awesome but I'd like the Ubuntu/Xubuntu repos
[02:58] <Odd-rationale> Mecha25: faunos is also a good choice.
[02:58] <Mecha25> I'll look into that, there are Puplets (puppy sub-distros) that run XFCE, but they don't boot nearly as fast as I'd like, and they aren't as well put together as the original.
[02:59] <Odd-rationale> it uses the archlinux repos and probably has as much packages available as ubuntu. i know what you mean by lack of packages gor puppy linux...
[02:59] <DaveKong> My computer had been running for three days and there were several duplicates of processes for some reason but restarting got rid of them... anyone know what may cause this? stuff like xorg and gvfs
[02:59] <Mecha25> DaveKong, you running compiz?
[03:00] <DaveKong> Mecha25:  yea
[03:00] <Mecha25> mine does that too, both Xorg's have identical ram usage?
[03:00] <DaveKong> Mecha25:  yea
[03:00] <DaveKong> but the copy has no cpu usage
[03:01] <Mecha25> Identical to what I've got, same with duplicate GVFS's.  as far as I can tell, it's part of the design, I've tried killing one or both, but they just come back in a split second
[03:01] <Mecha25> double ram usage is, I guess, just part of Compiz
[03:01] <DaveKong> hmm
[03:01] <DaveKong> seems like poor design
[03:02] <DaveKong> restarting did clean it up but as I run my ram usage just keeps going up
[03:02] <Mecha25> ditto that, but frankly I'm running 1GB of RAM, and I have yet to see my comp swapping out for anything, it hardly ever even has anything in the swap partition
[03:03] <Mecha25> although, do tell, how'd you get Compiz running on Xubuntu?  I tried it a while back and had absolute hell, I'm running Ubuntu with it now, and Puppy on my thumb drive
[03:04] <DaveKong> I actually am just running xubuntu on my other computer I tried to put it on this one and the xserver crashed
[03:04] <Odd-rationale> Mecha25: it is rather easy. just install compiz and run compiz --replace
[03:05] <Mecha25> odd: I think back then it was before compiz was in ubuntu by default, I think it was even still called extras, not even fusion
[03:06] <Odd-rationale> Mecha25: well for Xubuntu Hardy, all you need is "sudo apt-get install compiz compizconfig-settings-manager emerald"
[03:08] <Mecha25> ah! so you do need to use Emerald for the window manager?  back then I attempted to keep xfce's default one, it refused to display window decorations and work with compiz at the same time.  by the time I finally managed to get it somewhat working, I had gotten a new laptop, one that could run Ubuntu full speed
[03:08] <Odd-rationale> Mecha25: for xfce, yes you need to use emerald instead of xfwm4
[03:09] <Mecha25> I'll keep that in mind if I ever start up using it again, thanks man.  anyway, so 4GB minimum for full Xubuntu thumb drive install...  I'll get a bigger drive eventually.  Peace out all, you've been a good help
[08:37] <dw269> im sure there must be a solution to this but the only one i can think of requires a nicer monitor.
[08:38] <dw269> ijust installe 8.04 onto a nivida chipset board and using the built in driver restults in 800x600 res
[08:39] <dw269> so enabeling the nv ones requires a restart but pushes the monitor beyond its 1024 max res and i can't do anything from the gui, only reset it or get to the terminal
[08:39] <dw269> any ideas?
[09:46] <Shaba2> Hello anyone here and at the keys
[10:29] <[zEr0-x]> yeap, me :)
[11:35] <microwaver> Hello people, where can I find to option to adjust keyboard layout?
[11:36] <khajavi> HI All: I don't have 1024*768 resolution. what should I do? (in restricted drivers my nvidia-legacy is in red color)
[12:45] <floating> i need to install libgl-dev
[12:45] <floating> it says there is no installation candidates
[12:45] <floating> what repos do i need
[12:52] <ablomen> floating, try libgl1-mesa-dev
[12:52] <floating> no installation candidate
[13:01] <moDumass> hi all, we are tryingt o install xubu on an old laptop, with 128 megs of ram, once the loading bar has completed it turns off the monitor
[13:10] <pleia2> moDumass: you need more ram than that for an install with the livecd, have you tried the alternate installer?
[13:10] <moDumass> hmm, pleia2 no i have not, what is that?
[13:11] <pleia2> moDumass: it's a text based installer, the xubuntu-8.04-alternate is the iso you'd download instead
[13:11] <moDumass> pleia2, it seems the alternative is whats being used
[13:12] <microwaver> Hello, i'm experiencing troubles logging in with xcfe session, it only gives a black screen with a cross as cursor
[13:41] <CostaRicanQuaker> is xubuntu userfriendly to someone switching from windowsxp?
[13:41] <CostaRicanQuaker> moreso than kubuntu?
[13:44] <piouwa> hello
[13:48] <Odd-rationale> CostaRicanQuaker: not really. they are about the same.
[13:49] <CostaRicanQuaker> what about repositories?
[13:50] <CostaRicanQuaker> do they share the same? kubuntu and xubuntu?
[13:52] <Odd-rationale> CostaRicanQuaker: yes. all *buntus share the same repos
[13:54] <ablomen> all official(ish) *buntus that is
[13:55] <Odd-rationale> yeah, true. thanks for correction...
[13:55] <ablomen> heh sorry bored so i thought i'd say something semi inteligent ;)
[14:30] <wrtpeeps> I have 2 sound devices, #0 is my onboard and #1 is my audigy. How can I tell ubuntu to always use my audigy, because I think it's using my onboard at the moment and there are no speakers connected to it.
[14:34] <Riotta> turn off it in bios
[14:35] <Riotta> or pick it up in aumixer / alsa mixer from devices list
[14:35] <Riotta> but better do disable it by hardware (bios way)
[14:37] <wrtpeeps> ok thanks
[14:39] <g00LiPoP> Hi! Does anyone know how to customize the design on xubuntu?
[14:39] <g00LiPoP> Cuz I can't find it
[14:43] <Odd-rationale> g00LiPoP: applications --> settings manager
[14:45] <g00LiPoP> ok
[14:45] <g00LiPoP> whait a second
[14:46] <g00LiPoP> I'm using regular ubuntu right know so I'm just going to switch to xubuntu
[14:53] <g00LiPoP> thx for the help:)
[15:00] <floating> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[15:00] <floating>   libglitz1-dev: Depends: libx11-dev but it is not installable
[15:00] <floating>                  Depends: xlibmesa-gl-dev but it is not installable or
[15:00] <floating>                           libgl-dev but it is not installable
[15:01] <floating> can anyone help ?
[15:18] <The_Kernel> floating try this
[15:18] <The_Kernel> sudo aptitude install libglitz1-de
[15:18] <The_Kernel> sudo aptitude install libglitz1-dev
[15:20] <Odd-rationale> I got a problem and i wonder if anyone can confirm this. When I run screen inside terminal, I can't backspace... :|
[15:20] <floating> The_Kernel: http://up.k10x.net/finzzykfoxziv/aptitude01.txt
[15:20] <Odd-rationale> i do not have this problem with gnome-terminal
[15:20] <Odd-rationale> or konsole, or tilda...
[15:22] <floating> The_Kernel: if you try for example apt-cache search libx11-dev  do you find it ?
[15:28] <luckbuntu> I feeling lucky now.
[15:28] <luckbuntu> Sorry.
[15:29] <test> Can anybode help me with Firefox? I can't switch into German.
[15:37] <floating> ok, i uncommented some of the libraries and i got it installed. now my problem is on the program when i try to run it. it says : (lkeyholetv:6966): Gdk-CRITICAL **: gdk_colormap_get_screen: assertion `GDK_IS_COLORMAP (cmap)' failed
[15:37] <floating> (lkeyholetv:6966): Gdk-CRITICAL **: gdk_colormap_get_visual: assertion `GDK_IS_COLORMAP (colormap)' failed
[15:37] <floating> Segmentation fault
[17:02] <xubuntuuser> does anybody know how to use the german language-pack in thunderbird
[17:26] <jokoon> Hello I have xubuntu on a power pc machine, using rhythmbox is taking 60% cpu, whats wrong ?
[17:31] <Valsum> Rythmbox is quite resource-expensive, but 60% of a powerpc...wow, no idea
[17:31] <jokoon> any lighter player ?
[17:31] <jokoon> for xfce ?
[17:33] <Stroganoff> audacious
[17:33] <Stroganoff> joakim12
[17:33] <Stroganoff> jokoon
[17:34] <Stroganoff> jokoon: audacious
[17:34] <xubuntuuser> My thunderbird doesn't use the language-pack. What can I do?
[17:36] <TheSheep> xubuntuuser: is it installed?
[17:36] <TheSheep> xubuntuuser: is it listed in addons?
[17:36] <xubuntuuser> Yes, Yes
[17:38] <Riotta> jokoon: xfmedia
[17:38] <Riotta> is lightest
[17:38] <Riotta> :d
[17:39] <TheSheep> xubuntuuser: is it selected in addons?
[17:40] <xubuntuuser> selected? what do you mean?
[19:21] <Shaba2> hello is there anyone here and at the keyboard
[19:22] <wozz> ask your question
[19:22] <Shaba2> I followed the instructions at this page. http://grumpymole.blogspot.com/2006/12/xubuntu-remote-desktop-with-vnc4server.html
[19:23] <Shaba2> But when I log into my xubuntu machine from a windows machine running vncviewer. the screen I see in windows looks nothing like what is on the actual monitor of the xubuntu machine
[19:23] <Shaba2> ok is that enough wozz
[19:23] <Shaba2> ??\
[19:27] <Shaba1> Ok now wozz after being sarcastic
[19:27] <Shaba1> you ar silent
[19:40] <wozz> take it easy
[19:40] <wozz> some of us actually work for a living
[19:40] <wozz> what do you see?
[19:51] <zoredache_> Shaba1: if it doesn't look like what you expect can you tell us what you are seeing?
[20:38] <whileimher> Hi. what is the cli to start the terminal?
[20:39] <wozz> what?
[20:39] <whileimher> I want to add the terminal to my panel and I need to know the command to start it?
[20:39] <wozz> oh
[20:40] <wozz> in /usr/bin
[20:41] <whileimher> Some just gave it to me its xfce4-terminal
[20:42] <wozz> it depends on if you are using xfce or not
[20:42] <wozz> are you using xubuntu?
[20:42] <whileimher> Yes
[20:42] <wozz> /usr/bin/xfce4-terminal
[20:42] <thinkmassive> generally people in here are using xubuntu unless they specify otherwise
[20:43] <wozz> well i didn't want to give bad advise
[20:43] <wozz> advice, rather
[20:43] <whileimher> :) Thanks for thinking of it wozz
[20:43] <whileimher> its the 4 that throws me off
[20:43] <wozz> no worries
[20:43] <whileimher> I had just xfce-terminal
[20:46] <whileimher> I have to say that Digikam under XFCE sure is snappier than under GNOME or even KDE.
[20:49] <whileimher> Well got to go back out to work on the lawn Thanks for the help
[21:13] <nikolam> I get strange message when I try to Use ntop: http://paste.ubuntu.com/23354/
[21:24] <maxamillion> nikolam: yeah, that appears to be a bug ... i might recommend either searching launchpad.net for the bug report or if there isn't one yet, file one yourself so that the developers can fix that up
[21:26] <nikolam> i managed to start it with sudo ntop -p /root/ntop (providing I previously made /root/ntop dir) I could access ntop Through browser on http://<IP_ADDRESS>:3000
[21:26] <nikolam> Is that what it should be doing?
[21:26] <nikolam> -P sorry
[21:28] <cody-somerville> NOTICE TO TESTERS: Please help test Xubuntu Intrepid Alpha 1 Candidate. CD Images available at http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily/ and http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/
[21:28] <nikolam> Only problem now is that ntop stays in memory and After Ctrl+c it, i need to kill ntop process with kill -9 command
[21:32] <nikolam> cody-somerville, I need help with running 64-bit virtualization software that support VT instructions, so that I could Use 64-bit OS inside virtual machine, together with 64-bit Host machine runing Xubuntu
[21:33] <cody-somerville> nikolam, You should probably ask someone on the virtualization team.
[21:34] <nikolam> ok, what channel/newsgroul/mailing list/forum/ is that?
[21:36] <Genelyk> started download...
[21:39] <cody-somerville> nikolam, JeOS
[21:40] <nikolam> Maybe I could use JeOS functionality in my current Xubuntu install..
[21:41] <cody-somerville> Probably
[21:41] <nikolam> JeOS is only i386
[21:41] <cody-somerville> Try asking in #ubuntu
[21:42] <cody-somerville> Someone there may know more about virtualization.
[21:45] <nikolam> Its all because I am interested in testing 64-bit Xubuntu exclusively
[22:38] <sulle> hi, why cant i see my other drives on thunar ?
[22:47] <maxamillion> 2 minutes?
[22:47] <maxamillion> he waited 2 minutes
[22:48] <maxamillion> i can't even go to the fridge for something to drink in two minutes
[23:01] <Genelyk> full /home  T_T ,
[23:28] <owen1> how to support japanese (when writing)?