[05:11] <pitti> Good morning
[05:30] <TheMuso> Morning pitti.
[05:30] <pitti> hey TheMuso, how are you?
[05:31] <TheMuso> pitti: Feeling much better thanks. Caught up on sleep and feel I have beaten a slight bug I caught whilst being run down from my trip.
[07:33] <rodrigo_> morning
[07:34] <pitti> hey rodrigo_
[07:35] <didrocks> good morning
[07:36] <rodrigo_> hi pitti, didrocks
[07:36] <didrocks> hey rodrigo_
[09:08]  * rodrigo_ goes (again) to the police station, bbiab
[09:33] <chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
[09:33] <pitti> hey chrisccoulson
[09:33] <chrisccoulson> hey pitti, how are you?
[09:33] <pitti> pretty well, thanks! how about you?
[09:33] <pitti> still jetlagged?
[09:34] <chrisccoulson> pitti - i'm pretty tired this morning still
[09:34] <chrisccoulson> i was up quite late trying to figure out an addon upgrade issue which is blocking the firefox security update, with little success
[09:36] <seb128> hey chrisccoulson pitti
[09:36] <pitti> bonjour seb128
[09:37] <seb128> hey pitti, how are you?
[09:37] <pitti> seb128: can't complain, pretty good
[09:38] <pitti> I'm waking up like clockwork, just had some trouble getting to sleep yesterday
[09:38] <seb128> bryceh, you made people unhappy on bug #868400 by setting it incomplete where it gets angry comment almost every day
[09:38] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 868400 in xserver-xorg-input-synaptics "Synaptics touchpad stops working" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/868400
[09:38] <seb128> bryceh, if that's a bot reply you might want to update the bot logic to not incomplete active bugs
[09:39] <seb128> pitti, I've no trouble getting to sleep but I've trouble getting up ;-)
[09:40] <pitti> I'm sure it is a bot reply
[09:40] <chrisccoulson> hey seb128
[09:40] <pitti> I also got one for one of my bugs, I just set it back to triaged with a comment
[09:40] <seb128> hey chrisccoulson, stop spending your nights working!
[09:41] <chrisccoulson> heh
[09:41] <seb128> pitti, yeah, probably a bot reply, just unfortunate which it landed on an annoying bug where users are actively commented (and being ignored by us so far)
[09:41] <seb128> commenting
[09:54] <hrw> hi
[09:57] <mhr3> pitti, would i see in apport-filed bug that the user has two graphic cards? like there's the "GraphicsCard:" line, would multiple be listed?
[10:03] <hrw> first day of using unity for work - want me to report any issue?
[10:05] <seb128> hey hrw
[10:06] <seb128> if you have bugs you can check in launchpad if they have been filed and file them if not
[10:06] <hrw> sure
[10:06] <seb128> hrw, if you want to discuss unity on IRC maybe better to use #ayatana that's where dx (those who write the code) hang out
[10:07] <seb128> you can also mention those here but you will reach mainly the packagers, not the upstreams
[10:07] <hrw> ok
[10:10] <chrisccoulson> and if you use the ayatana mailing list, you have to use the words "Fitt's Law" at least once in your messages :)
[10:15] <hrw> ?
[10:15] <chrisccoulson> hrw, that was an attempt at sarcasm ;)
[10:15] <hrw> ah
[10:15] <chrisccoulson> not sure if you read that mailing list or not
[10:15] <hrw> chrisccoulson: no, I do not
[10:15] <chrisccoulson> ah :)
[10:19] <hrw> so far with gnome-control-center + gnome-tweak-tool + ubuntu-tweak I got something which reminds previous setup (as long as I do not try to use Super+[1-9] to switch destops and ignore panels)
[10:20] <seb128> seems like users try to copy their old way to work when switching
[10:21] <seb128> not sure that's the best thing to do, I would recommend trying to use a rather stock unity for a while and figure what works or not for you
[10:21] <seb128> you might be surprised and find that some things are nice and work better than the "old way"
[10:21] <seb128> then you know what to adapt or not
[10:25] <hrw> seb128: but how do I switch to destktop where I have terminal + 4 gvim windows? in other way then ctrl-alt-left multiple time
[10:26] <seb128> you can set keybidings for workspace switching in the GNOME control center
[10:26] <seb128> or in ccsm
[10:26] <seb128> (stay away from ccsm if you can, it cna be destructive)
[10:27] <hrw> ccsm is nightmare indeed
[10:29] <hrw> seb128: bug 886812 looks to be duplicate of bug 867502
[10:30] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 886812 in gnome-control-center "window does not scale up and is not resizable" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/886812
[10:30] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 867502 in gnome-control-center "The system settings window is a bit too small with some themes" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/867502
[10:30] <seb128> hrw, thanks, feel free to mark it as such
[10:31] <hrw> done and commented
[10:31] <seb128> thanks
[10:31] <hrw> btw - how to setup WM to alt-tab first inside of desktop?
[10:32] <hrw> destkop1=terminal, gnome-control-center and alt-tab switches me to firefox on desktop2 when I am in terminal
[10:32] <seb128> you can unmap in unity alt-tab in ccsm and use the old switcher instead if you want
[10:32] <hrw> so it is by design?
[10:36] <hrw> bug 842475 exists already
[10:37] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 842475 in unity "No way to switch quickly between windows (or apps) on the same desktop" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/842475
[10:41] <hrw> is it normal that when I switch to firefox (Start+2) I am not able to type in window and have to activate other app and then firefox again to have it working?
[10:46] <hrw> seb128: thx - old switcher is nicer
[10:47] <seb128> seems like you are determined to make unity behave like your old desktop rather than trying to figure if there is anything nice to get out of unity ;-)
[10:50] <hrw> seb128: unity switcher makes my life harder when 4 gvim windows are open
[10:50] <hrw> I need alt+tab then arrows
[10:50] <seb128> yeah, it has some issues
[10:50] <seb128> well good that you can tweak and use the old switcher ;-)
[10:50] <hrw> old one is not perfect but is better then new one for me
[10:51] <seb128> well, unity switcher, if you stop on an entry which has several instance it will spawn those
[10:51] <seb128> you can also use alt-key_over_tab to cycle between the instances of the same application
[10:51] <hrw> nice
[10:51] <hrw> alt+tilde for most
[10:51] <seb128> there is a bug about the spawn delay not being short enough which leads some people to not nice it does that
[10:52] <seb128> well, 'key_over_tab", really, it's not the same key there on all the layouts ;-)
[10:52] <seb128> it might be tilde for you
[10:52] <hrw> which component is responsible for 'incomplete language support' window? as I want to fix translation
[10:52] <seb128> language-selector
[10:53] <hrw> seb128: during uds I used keyboard which had esc over alt...
[10:55] <hrw> ok, added suggestion to translations
[11:18] <rodrigo_> is mpt off this week?
[11:27] <zyga> hrw, you are doing one thing wrong
[11:27] <hrw> zyga: only one?
[11:27] <zyga> hrw, unity is not your previous setup and as long as you don't accept that you will find it annoying
[11:28] <zyga> hrw, I work differently since natty
[11:28] <zyga> hrw, not everything is perfect
[11:28] <zyga> hrw, but
[11:28] <zyga> hrw, after rethinking my workflow I'm much happier than I was before
[11:28] <hrw> zyga: will see after few days
[11:29] <hrw> mostly I miss colour schemes for UI and WM-decorations
[11:30] <seb128> well, that's what I was saying before, users trying to make unity the same as their old desktop rather than trying to understand how unity work and see if that's better
[11:30] <zyga> seb128, have you seen a bug where the orange outline that usually shows up when you move the window to the side or to the top edge stays around and just sits there until I resize some (any) windows for a while?
[11:30] <seb128> but I guess resistance to change is "normal" ;-)
[11:30] <seb128> zyga, yeah, I'm pretty sure it's reported, it's a bug in compiz grid
[11:31] <zyga> seb128, ok, thanks
[11:37] <hrw> seb128: I found launcher very limited in unity - no way to run several gvim windows from one icon for example
[11:37] <seb128> hrw, you can middle click on the icon
[11:37] <seb128> to run a new instance
[11:37] <hrw> I would never guess that ;)
[11:40] <seb128> didrocks, do you know if there a reference guide to unity somewhere describing that sort of things?
[11:40] <hrw> other question: in 'mail/im' indicator there is 'configure mail' entry which does not do anything. what is a use for it?
[11:40] <zyga> seb128, wow, I did not knew that either :)
[11:40] <hrw> zyga: and you use unity for ~year ;)
[11:40]  * zyga checks if there is a rmb option :)
[11:40] <didrocks> seb128: not that I know of, there is askubuntu.com which contains a lot of those tricks
[11:40] <didrocks> but nothing formally written
[11:40] <zyga> hrw, I rarely use it for that though, usually CTRL+SHIFT+T -> spawn terminal -> work from there
[11:40] <didrocks> you can as well shift + click
[11:40] <seb128> didrocks, ok, so low discoverability, you know to think about questions to find details ;-)
[11:40] <didrocks> or super shift num
[11:40] <zyga> hrw, unity is when I don't focus on having 10s of identical windows
[11:41] <didrocks> well, the low discoverability is by design for that feature
[11:41] <seb128> didrocks, right, well still having a summary of features would be nice for some users I guess
[11:41] <zyga> didrocks, I miss right-click context menu with that option spelled out next to an accelerator shortcut so that I can learn
[11:42] <seb128> hrw, the "configure" is supposed to run the email client corresponding to the entry, likely thunderbird on Oneiric
[11:42] <hrw> seb128: I have thunderbird installed, configured and running - selecting option does not do anything. where I can check/report bug?
[11:43] <seb128> hrw, the component is indicator-messages
[11:43] <hrw> thx
[11:43] <seb128> yw
[11:44] <seb128> hrw, do you have a second email entry in that menu or one for thunderbird?
[11:45] <zyga> hrw, make a screenshot and attach that to your bug report
[11:46] <hrw> seb128: moment
[11:47] <hrw> http://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/~hrw/panel.jpg
[11:47] <seb128> do you have the thunderbird unity thing activated?
[11:48] <seb128> chrisccoulson, ^ do you know if that's required to make the indicator see tb?
[11:48] <hrw> nope
[11:48] <hrw> seb128: this addon is disabled
[11:48] <seb128> try activating it
[11:48] <seb128> it should be activated by default in oneiric
[11:49] <chrisccoulson> yeah, if it's not active, then it won't work :)
[11:49] <hrw> activated, got option
[11:50] <hrw> is it normal that firefox from desktop2 sometimes appear partially on left side of desktop1?
[11:51] <chrisccoulson> yay - http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/nov/09/adobe-flash-mobile-dead \o/
[11:51] <chrisccoulson> now, if only they would do the same with desktop flash....
[11:53] <hrw> ok, time to relogin to get rid of appmenu indicator
[11:54] <hrw> yay! and world got easier
[12:01] <hrw> is bug 833615 duplicate of bug 706931?
[12:01] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 833615 in empathy ""connection is untrusted: Remember this choice for future connections" is not clear" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/833615
[12:01] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 706931 in empathy "repeated asking to verify a certificate. enough already, I already approved it!!" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/706931
[12:01] <rodrigo_> chrisccoulson, cool!
[12:10] <zyga> hrw, what is wrong with your theme?
[12:10] <zyga> hrw, the symbolic icons in your indicator area are impossible to see
[12:12] <pitti> seb128: do you happen to know an easy way of provoking a crash of something while your session gets shut down?
[12:13]  * pitti wants to test a solution for bug 460932
[12:13] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 460932 in apport "Do not catch crashes which happen at logout" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/460932
[12:14] <hrw> zyga: thats radiance theme
[12:14] <zyga> hrw, hmm, it looks readable on my screen, are you sure you have not tweaked anything extra?
[12:15] <zyga> hrw, I can show you how it looks like here
[12:15] <pitti> seb128: it seems that calling org.gnome.SessionManager.IsSessionRunning() pretty much DTRT
[12:15] <hrw> zyga: I changed theme from radiance to other now and now they are more visible
[12:15] <zyga> radiance _is_ readable
[12:15] <pitti> seb128: of course that only works for GNOME, but for now that'll help; other desktops can add something similar to apport if they want
[12:16] <hrw> now... where I can change desktop layout from 2x2 to 1x6...
[12:17] <seif> rodrigo_, guy lunardi says hi
[12:17] <seif> :P
[12:17] <zyga> hrw, http://ubuntuone.com/6a97ekIBjATMuIYY79rM0c
[12:19] <hrw> zyga: I have them now set too
[12:20] <hrw> btw - thunderbird icon in launcher is expected to show proper amount of unread emails or just some random '1' number?
[12:28] <rodrigo_> seif, hey, tell him 'hi' also :D
[12:30] <zyga> hrw, it should show the right amount
[12:30] <zyga> hrw, I can show you how my messaging  indicator looks like
[12:30] <zyga> hrw, did you tweak anything there?
[12:30] <hrw> zyga: nope, did not
[12:31] <zyga> hrw, and obviously thunderbird needs to run for the icon to be accurate
[12:31] <zyga> hrw, does restarting TB fixes the problem?
[12:31] <seb128> pitti, re (was at lunch), no easy way that I know about no
[12:31] <hrw> zyga: it is running, icons shows 'no new mail', TB says '6 mails'
[12:31] <zyga> hrw, if no then I'd report it and follow up with the person that did the customization for ubuntu
[12:31] <hrw> I will
[12:32] <zyga> seb128, that brings me to semi-offtopic: who wrote the messaging indicator? I have a crazy idea I want to try
[12:32] <seb128> zyga, ted from dx
[12:32] <zyga> seb128, ted gould?
[12:32] <seb128> yes
[12:32]  * zyga is sorry if he mixed up the surname
[12:32] <zyga> ok
[12:36] <hrw> zyga: bug 886907 and bug 848774 :D
[12:36] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 886907 in thunderbird "Messaging Menu and Unity launcher don't display unread messages count from Thunderbird" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/886907
[12:36] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 848774 in thunderbird "Icon does not show right amount of new email" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/848774
[12:37] <zyga> hrw, sounds like dupe
[12:37] <hrw> zyga: anyway thing to ignore as it has to display 'new' not 'unread'
[12:38] <zyga> hrw, do some de-dupe for the people that are going to chew through this
[12:38] <hrw> will
[12:39] <seb128> the counter thing tries to be smart
[12:40] <seb128> i.e it only display counts for boxes you didn't open since they got the new emails and it ignores things that you are not directly receiving
[12:40] <seb128> i.e mailing lists
[12:42]  * rodrigo_ lunch
[12:44] <hrw> where I can change desktop layout from 2x2 to 1x6?
[12:46] <seb128> ccsm
[12:47] <zyga> hrw, seb128, in all honesty people expect some degree of personalization from unity so I think things like that will end up (should?) in the control center
[12:47] <zyga> it's just about picking the things we allow for +1
[12:47] <zyga> and adapting to feedback
[12:48] <seb128> what? number of workspaces?
[12:48] <zyga> seb128, that and a few other things
[12:48] <seb128> that like fits in ubuntu-tweaks yes
[12:48] <zyga> seb128, I'd just do 3 options initially
[12:48] <seb128> not sure about g-c-c
[12:48] <zyga> seb128, I disagree, it should be configurable by default
[12:48] <seb128> you assume that most users use workspaces there
[12:48] <seb128> which I'm not sure it's true
[12:49] <zyga> seb128, launcher hiding, workspaces and global menu
[12:49] <seb128> there were some talks about disabling workspaces by default
[12:49] <seb128> launcher hiding will get a g-c-c option this cycle
[12:49] <seb128> the menus are being discussed
[12:49] <hrw> and playing with ccsm == compiz hang == kill compiz from text console
[12:49] <seb128> they are a known issue
[12:49] <seb128> not sure about workspaces
[12:49] <hrw> zyga: and launcher size...
[12:49] <seb128> that will get a g-c-c option as well iirc
[12:50] <zyga> seb128, that is possible, the way mac (Leopard or Snow, cannot remember) disabled this by default, placed in the dock by default (so everyone clicked on it and could enable it easily) and allowed you to say how many you want
[12:50] <hrw> I had to kill compiz. now I have to relogin ;(
[12:50] <seb128> you can probably run "unity" from a vt
[12:50] <zyga> seb128, if that gets into default configuration options then virtually all annoyances I hear and read about all the time will be adressed
[12:50] <seb128> it will restart it on your active X
[12:51] <seb128> zyga, it will make quite some users happy, still some will complain about i.e the launcher position not being configurable though
[12:51] <zyga> seb128, is anyone working on that this cycle? I'm just curious but it sounds (to me) that they are rather simple and perhaps I could help
[12:51] <zyga> seb128, the launcher position is a different topic, AFAIR it is not likely to change for different reasons
[12:52] <zyga> seb128, I remember sabdfl commenting on that topic
[12:52] <seb128> zyga, options for the launcher autohide and some others are on the roadmap, check with dx (#ayatana), or maybe didrocks can help you giving details, I'm sure they would appreciate help if you want to work on those
[12:52] <zyga> seb128, plus I'm not sure how much work is needed to make the launcher movable, the items we discussed above are trivially togglable switches in various configuration systms
[12:52] <seb128> zyga, right
[12:52] <zyga> seb128, thanks, I'll look into that
[12:53] <seb128> well I was just pointing that it will not stop all complain, but that would be a good start for sure ;-)
[12:54] <hrw> ~hail screen - need to relogin again
[12:57] <hrw> ~curse compiz and ccsm
[12:57] <seb128> join the club
[12:57] <seb128> chrisccoulson wants to destroy ccsm, I start agreeing with him that's needed ;-)
[12:58] <hrw> so now I need to remove some config files, restart x11 session, run ccsm, curse, reconfigure
[12:58] <seb128> what happened?
[12:59] <hrw> ccsm -> about == compiz freeze
[12:59] <hrw> after relogin no unity
[13:00] <seb128> try to see if you have a .config  > .compiz-1 > compizconfig
[13:00] <seb128> config there
[13:00] <seb128> try deleting it, you maybe it the bug where the profile is changed for you
[13:01] <hrw> no change
[13:01] <seb128> did you try restarting compiz?
[13:01] <hrw> whole x11 session
[13:01] <seb128> is unity enabled in ccsm?
[13:01] <hrw> was
[13:02] <seb128> you can probably re-enable it if it's not
[13:03] <hrw> anyway need to run other session then unity
[13:03] <chrisccoulson> destroying ccsm +1000 :-)
[13:04] <hrw> http://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/~hrw/shots/Zrzut%20ekranu%202011-11-09%2014%3a03%3a41.png - who knows what this grey area is?
[13:06] <zyga> hrw, stuck dead window?
[13:07] <hrw> zyga: right after login?
[13:07] <zyga> hrw, ps aux?
[13:07] <zyga> hrw, perhaps something started and died?
[13:07] <hrw> xkill better
[13:08] <hrw> nope - xkill did not helped
[13:08] <zyga> hrw, no idea, check for X resources with X hacker
[13:10] <hrw> it was psi+
[13:11] <hrw> appeared exactly there when opened from systray icon
[13:12] <hrw> unity/2d does not restore background after switch from VT ;(
[13:13] <hrw> http://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/~hrw/shots/Zrzut%20ekranu%202011-11-09%2014%3a13%3a03.png
[13:15] <zyga> hrw, sounds like another bug to report for you ;-)
[13:15] <hrw> thats what I am doing now
[13:22] <hrw> bug 888050
[13:22] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 888050 in unity-2d "Desktop background not restored after switch from text console" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/888050
[13:23] <hrw> apport updated
[13:25] <bigon> pitti: hi are you planning to update pygobject to the latest version in debian, to fix the breakage due to gi?
[13:26] <pitti> bigon: how do you mean? 3.0.2 is the latest, and we have that
[13:27] <pitti> it's not meant to be broken, it's working quite fine here; what's wrong with it?
[13:27] <bigon> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=640467
[13:27] <ubot2> Debian bug 640467 in python-gobject "Insufficient requirement on gobject-introspection" [Grave,Open]
[13:28] <bigon> somebody on #debian-gnome just talked about that
[13:29] <pitti> hm, it already b-deps on libgirepository1.0-dev (>= 1.31.0), that shoudl be enough
[13:29] <pitti> which comes out as a binary dep of libgirepository-1.0-1 (>= 1.29.0)
[13:29] <pitti> oh, perhaps the libglib version dep isn't high enough
[13:33] <pitti> bigon: so it's fixed now, I'll followup
[13:35] <hrw> lovely. lightdm hang ;(
[13:35] <pitti> bigon: done
[13:42] <hrw> ok, looks like need to start from scratch ;(
[13:49] <hrw> but thats tomorrow - today I have a work to do
[13:50] <bigon> pitti: thx
[13:58] <AlanBell> hi all, where is the best place to discuss compiz interactions with NUX? specifically relating to bug 762699
[13:58] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 762699 in unity "Unity launcher and panel are not zoomable with Enhanced Zoom Desktop" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/762699
[13:58] <kenvandine> AlanBell, #ayatana
[13:58] <AlanBell> thanks kenvandine
[13:58] <kenvandine> AlanBell, np
[14:55] <dupondje> didrocks: thanks foor looking @ the nautilus bug :)
[14:55] <didrocks> dupondje: no worry, just annoying noise on the bug report :)
[14:56] <dupondje> true
[14:56] <dupondje> happy it will be fixed, cause its like the most annoying bug in Oneiric atm :D
[15:00] <seb128> users are annoying
[15:00] <seb128> well the ones ranting on bugs at least
[15:05] <Xanath> Hello, i tried referring to the general #ubuntu channel but i did not get an answer so i'll try here...
[15:05] <Xanath> when starting applications from the launcher(using the shortcut super+number) they open in workspace/desktop 1 i want to change that so they open in workspace/desktop  5...
[15:13] <pitti> seb128: I have a relatively cautious implementation for bug 460932 now
[15:13] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 460932 in apport "Do not catch crashes which happen at logout" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/460932
[15:13] <pitti> seb128: it might not suppress all the bad ones, but let's see how far this get us
[15:14] <pitti> seb128: the next bug we get for a shutdown crasher will then make a good case study :)
[15:15] <seb128> pitti, nice!
[16:16] <seb128> rodrigo_, there?
[16:17] <rodrigo_> seb128, yes
[16:17] <seb128> rodrigo_, do you plan to sru g-s-d and g-c-c 3.2.2?
[16:18] <rodrigo_> seb128, hmm, wasn't planning to do it, but yes, can do it
[16:19] <mterry> Just FYI y'all, I'm doing my +1 maintenance rotation this month, so I won't be very available for normal desktop stuff
[16:19] <seb128> rodrigo_, not sure we need those but the "fix for gtk 3.2.1" make me thing we do, we might update gtk later on
[16:19] <seb128> mterry, hey, how are you? got over the ubuflu?
[16:19] <rodrigo_> ok
[16:19] <mterry> seb128, no.  :(
[16:19] <seb128> :-(
[16:19] <seb128> I got it as well
[16:20] <mterry> Should be chugging orange juice all UDS next time
[16:20] <seb128> yeah
[16:20] <rodrigo_> it was too cold in some rooms indeed
[16:20] <seb128> mterry, so the rotation, what will that team fix exactly?
[16:21] <seb128> just curious
[16:21] <mterry> seb128, everything.  zarro boogs
[16:21] <mterry> seb128, things like ftbfs, nbs, transitions,
[16:21] <seb128> good, so you will still fix desktop bugs? ;-)
[16:21] <mterry> seb128, installability issues, making sure the daily cd builds
[16:22] <seb128> ok, I still fail to see that being enough to keep dynamic people like you guys busy full time :p
[16:22] <mterry> seb128, well, historically we've had a hard time keeping up on it, right?
[16:22] <seb128> but let's see how it goes in practice, feel free to fix desktop bugs once you nailed all the CD issues ;-)
[16:22] <mterry> seb128, :)
[16:23] <seb128> mterry, yeah, because we are usually sloppy, I would think that like 2-3 hours a day for a few people would be enough
[16:23] <seb128> we usually backlog and pay the price later
[16:23] <mterry> seb128, we'll see; it's an experiment
[16:23] <seb128> mterry, but let's see how it goes, if I'm right you will get some time for desktop bug fixing, if I'm not you will not, no issue ;-)
[16:24] <seb128> mterry, oh sure, not denying it's useful and wanted, I just somewhat think people will still have a bit of time for their normal team bugs though ;-)
[16:24] <mterry> seb128, this certainly involves a lot of local building, so I'll have some free time while waiting perhaps  :)
[16:24] <seb128> or maybe I just hope it's the case :p
[16:24] <kenvandine> sigh... updating tp-mission-control-5 seems to break gabble... good thing i am updating the whole stack :)
[16:26] <seb128> mterry, speaking I was pondering syncing libepc from experimental which has a soname change but I didn't want to deal with the rdepends, does it mean I can just sync it and requires your services to get it fixed then? ;-)
[16:26]  * seb128 hides
[16:26] <mterry> seb128, :(
[16:27] <Laney> there is tool development too
[16:27] <seb128> mterry, ok ok, I will not do it (or at least not today)
[16:28] <seb128> mterry, joke aside enjoy the rotation ;-)
[16:28] <mterry> Laney, true.  a side goal is to improve the tools that let us fix this stuf
[16:28] <seb128> how many people do you get in the team at the same time? 2-3?K
[16:28] <Laney> an index page for the transition tracker would be nice ;-)
[16:29] <mterry> seb128, 3
[16:34] <bryceh> seb128, yep good point
[16:39] <seb128> hey bryceh
[16:40] <seb128> bryceh, do you only check for comments from the bug submitter or is the script buggy in some way and didn't notice there was activity on the bug?
[16:40] <seb128> i.e design decision or bug? ;-)
[16:40] <bryceh> bug
[16:40] <seb128> ok
[16:41] <bryceh> I'd even commented "don't comment on bugs with recent comments", just forgot to implement the check
[16:41] <seb128> ;-)
[16:41] <bryceh> seb128, I only just wrote it yesterday ;-)
[16:42] <bryceh> it is only going to get one time per release.  this time it touched only 112 bugs so its one of my "smaller" scripts.  but the less annoying it is the better
[16:45] <bryceh> seb128, I should probably also include logic to not touch bugs with more than 25 comments or so... those tend to be "heated"
[16:46] <seb128> yeah, don't feed the trolls :p
[16:49]  * didrocks hugs his testsuite
[16:49] <didrocks> was wondering why it suddenly failed
[16:49] <didrocks> before seeing that it was a commented instruction for debugging which was guilty
[17:01] <pitti> good night everyone!
[17:21] <hggdh> pkcs11-kit (on precise) looks for gnome-keyring-pkcs11.so under /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/pkcs11/, but gnome-keyring installed it under /usr/lib/pkcs11. Is this a bug on g-k, or pkcs11-kit (so that I can open it on the correct package)?
[17:23] <seb128> it's report in launchpad
[17:23] <seb128> seems a multiarch issue, try pinging slangasek if you are lucky he might look at it
[17:24] <hggdh> seb128: thank you. I will try my luck, but lately it has been misbehaving ;-)
[17:25] <slangasek> open bug
[17:25] <slangasek> I was waiting for the Debian maintainer's decision
[17:26] <slangasek> Debian bug #645959
[17:26] <ubot2> Debian bug 645959 in src:p11-kit "p11-kit looks in /usr/lib/$arch/pkcs11 for modules, nothing installs there?" [Important,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/645959
[17:27] <slangasek> since the maintainer hasn't replied to my last comment, I guess the next step is for someone to patch p11-kit to look in /usr/lib/pkcs11 for backwards-compatibility
[17:33] <kenvandine> seb128, i was just looking at that in gnome-keyring
[17:34] <seb128> kenvandine, yeah, I just noticed your upload, I was wondering if that's in reaction of the discussion there
[17:34] <walters> hey, could we get a unity developer to come to #gnome-os on gimpnet?  We're looking at merging desrt's GMenuModel stuff in gtk+ and it'd be helpful to have someone who can actually look at how things would work for unity's global menu
[17:34] <kenvandine> well, it fixes it for now, but ideally gnome-keyring should install in multiarch
[17:34] <kenvandine> i think
[17:35] <seb128> walters, do you have desrt there? I think he knows the details
[17:35] <walters> scratch that #gtk+ is more topical
[17:35] <walters> seb128, he's on vacation
[17:36] <seb128> ok, quite some unity people are on vacation as well after UDS
[17:36] <seb128> ted was around earlier, could be lunch time for him, if you can wait a bit he will probably be back
[17:37] <walters> ok, thanks
[17:43] <seb128> kenvandine, could you turn bug #848968 to verification done, I think you said you had the issue and the update fixed it for you?
[17:43] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 848968 in evolution "Google Calendar reminders display unnecessarily" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/848968
[17:44] <seb128> pedro_, could you maybe help to get some green on the evo sru?
[17:44] <kenvandine> seb128, sure
[17:44] <seb128> it's in the queue for 21 days
[17:44] <seb128> kenvandine, thanks
[17:44] <pedro_> still there?
[17:44] <pedro_> seb128, ok i'll check it
[17:44] <seb128> pedro_, thanks
[17:45] <pedro_> no problem
[17:45] <seb128> pedro_, the indicators as well
[17:45] <pedro_> yeah will look at all the desktop related sru's
[17:45] <didrocks> ok, time for some dance, see you tomorrow (on swap, but will connect)
[17:46] <pedro_> didrocks, have fun :-)
[17:47] <chrisccoulson> seb128, i know what's causing your launcher count problem with thunderbird!
[17:47] <seb128> chrisccoulson, is it fixed yet!
[17:47] <chrisccoulson> lol
[17:47] <seb128> tedg, hey, walters was looking for you
[17:48] <seb128> tedg, they want somebody from unity on #gtk+, they are looking at merging gmenumodel
[17:48] <seb128> want -> could use
[17:48] <seb128> desrt is not around this week
[17:48] <seb128> chrisccoulson, what is it?
[17:48] <tedg> Ah, desrt would be a better candidate...
[17:49] <seb128> tedg, right, but he's not around...
[17:49] <chrisccoulson> we're looking at the wrong property changing on e-mails when clearing the count
[17:49] <walters> tedg, it's not critical to do right this instant
[17:49] <walters> tedg, but mclasen is pretty far along - e.g. we have tests
[17:49] <tedg> walters, Ah, I mean, I can help out.  But, I'd defer to desrt any hard questions :-)
[17:51] <jbicha> seb128: are you interested in sponsoring my webkit 1.6 merge?
[17:53] <seb128> jbicha, did you follow the debian source rename?
[17:54] <jbicha> seb128: they renamed it back
[17:54] <seb128> oh, I didn't notice that
[17:55] <seb128> yeah, I'm happy to review
[17:55] <seb128> do we still have a diff?
[17:55] <seb128> we should be pretty close from a sync from what I saw last time I reviewed it
[17:56] <jbicha> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/webkit/ubuntu
[17:56] <jbicha> pretty small diff, maybe I should bug kov harder about getting rid of it
[17:57] <seb128> jbicha, I think the conflict was not required
[17:57] <seb128> i.e in practice they have no common file
[17:57] <seb128> that would need checking
[17:57] <seb128> not sure the regexp stuff is required
[17:58] <seb128> it workaround some other symbols issues and might be cleaner but not worth a diff I think
[17:58] <jbicha> or we could just sync and make changes afterwards if needed?
[17:58] <seb128> jbicha, could you check if the conflicts is required? if not we can just sync
[17:59] <seb128> jbicha, yeah, can do
[17:59] <seb128> jbicha, the -common has /usr/share/webkitgtk-3.0
[17:59] <seb128> which I guess they did for the gtk2, gtk3 version to be installable at the same time
[18:00] <seb128> so no conflict there, we can sync
[18:03] <jbicha> yes, it looks like the conflict isn't needed, thanks
[18:08] <seb128> yw
[18:08] <seb128> chrisccoulson, is it fixed yet? ;-) let me know if I can help testing
[20:17] <micahg> jbicha: the conflicts for webkit are needed for Lucid -> precise upgrades ATM
[20:19] <micahg> at least I would think they'd be needed to remove the old library
[20:20] <micahg> squeeze -> wheeze will have the same issue though, I guess it's fine, assuming that apps will behave properly with both installed
[20:20] <micahg> *wheezy
[20:26] <jbicha> micahg: I don't know as I've not tested lucid>precise upgrades yet, but there isn't a file conflict at least
[20:27] <micahg> well, Debian will have the same issue, so if you're chatting with them anyways, maybe just ask
[20:28]  * micahg is planning to upgrade lucid to 1.6.x, but that's still a couple months off
[20:28] <jbicha> as a backport?
[20:28] <micahg> nope, security update
[20:34] <jbicha> micahg: I have a -ubuntu1 in the desktop branch if you'd rather keep the conflicts
[20:34] <micahg> jbicha: well, that would be the only use case for it, idk if it's needed, we can always add it back later, it's just something to keep in mind
[21:17] <AlanBell> RAOF: on the subject of colour profiles, have we investigated licensing pantone palettes and putting them in the software centre as a pay for item?


[00:27] <babbageclunk> wallyworld: application data bag state changes: https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/10539
[00:43] <wallyworld> babbageclunk: why do we need Role in relationApplicationSettingsKey? isn't "r#123#mysql" enough?
[00:44] <babbageclunk> wallyworld: I wasn't sure it was guaranteed to be unique - can you ever relate an application to itself?
[00:45] <wallyworld> no, that's what peer relations are for
[00:47] <babbageclunk> well, peer relations are for relations that can only be for this application. I mean, could you have an application that has a require and provide endpoint with the same interface, where the other end could be a different application, but could also be the same application
[00:47] <babbageclunk> ?
[00:48] <babbageclunk> It just seemed like including the role avoids that question
[00:48] <wallyworld> technically but i would hope we disallow that
[00:48] <wallyworld> now you've made me want to check
[00:48]  * babbageclunk makes a charm to see
[00:48] <babbageclunk> ha
[00:50] <wallyworld> babbageclunk: doesn't seem possible, i get "no relations found"
[00:50] <wallyworld> which is reassuring
[00:54] <babbageclunk> well still, there's nothing in the data model that prevents it - if anything it would make more sense to remove application, but that seems a bit weird.
[01:04] <wallyworld> but it is something juju disallows and doesn't make sense semantically
[01:11] <wallyworld> babbageclunk: lgtm modulo the role in the id
[01:39] <thumper> ugh...
[01:39] <thumper> while looking at one intermittent failure in TestCharmProfilingInfoError I found another
[01:39] <thumper> perhaps it is the same problem in a different guise
[01:39]  * thumper digs more
[02:03] <thumper> quick review for someone: https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/10570
[02:05] <wallyworld> thumper: lgtm
[02:06] <thumper> wallyworld: cheers
[02:06] <thumper> anastasiamac: speak of the devil
[02:06] <thumper> anastasiamac: I was wanting to hand you a nice PR, but wallyworld just looked at it instead
[02:06] <thumper> anastasiamac: was this one... https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/10570
[02:08] <anastasiamac> thumper: devil!! DEVIL! maybe at least d'evil :D ?
[02:08] <thumper> heh
[02:08] <thumper> Dr Evil?
[02:08] <anastasiamac> niiice! thnx wallyworld  - so delighted u  r holding the fort :D
[02:08] <anastasiamac> nuh.. not a dr and dont want to b one...
[02:09] <thumper> I had thought about studying for a PhD
[02:09] <anastasiamac> thumper: but since u r in the talking mood, do u have a sec to talk about that test i mentioned yesterday
[02:09] <thumper> but I couldn't think of anything that I really wanted to study that badly for three years
[02:09] <thumper> anastasiamac: sure
[02:09] <anastasiamac> 1:1?
[02:09] <thumper> omw
[04:34] <timClicks> thumper: could you create the hello-juju repo and authorise juju hackers to push to it?
[04:34] <thumper> timClicks: in a minute
[04:34] <anastasiamac> wallyworld: loved 'show-action' PR btw :) thank you !
[04:34] <thumper> otp
[04:35] <wallyworld> thanks for reviewing
[04:35] <anastasiamac> anytime :D
[04:35] <wallyworld> i have another almost ready, pending tests
[04:35] <anastasiamac> \o/
[04:35] <wallyworld> all part of actions v2
[04:36] <anastasiamac> i have one to go too.. jsut doing live tests now to fill out details.. 'll b epic
[04:37] <wallyworld> anastasiamac: i didn't change the existing test infrastructure for show cmd, as i neede to use what we had already for list action tests
[04:37] <timClicks> thumper: oh also hello-juju-charm
[04:38] <anastasiamac> wallyworld: yeah it's fine.. m more curious if u r keen to change to use cmd.Output :)
[04:38] <wallyworld> probs, otp, will look properly in a bit
[04:38] <anastasiamac> nws
[05:14] <thumper> anastasiamac: https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/10571
[05:14] <thumper> anastasiamac: a very simple fix in the end
[05:33] <thumper> jam: https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/10571 for what we talked about before
[05:45]  * thumper opens up the PR for any takers
[05:45] <thumper> hpidcock, kelvinliu, wallyworld, babbageclunk: https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/10571
[05:47] <kelvinliu> thumper: lgtm ,thanks!
[05:47] <thumper> kelvinliu: thanks
[05:50] <anastasiamac> thumper: \o/ how did i miss the ping?  :(
[05:50] <anastasiamac> well done!!!
[05:50] <thumper> anastasiamac: no idea
[05:50] <thumper> I thought you were just ignoring me :-P
[05:51] <anastasiamac> i would not dare :P
[06:05] <kelvinliu> np
[06:12]  * thumper is done
[06:12] <thumper> later peeps
[06:22] <babbageclunk> hey jam, the application data bag prs we were talking about are https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/10539 (state changes) and https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/10572 (apiserver)
[11:42] <parlos> Good Morning Juju!
[15:36] <stickupkid> anyone around for a CR https://github.com/juju/os/pull/11
[15:41] <hml> stickupkid: looking
[15:48] <stickupkid> hml, yeah, good shout, i'll do that now
[15:49] <hml> stickupkid: i’m not parsing the comments around DefaultSupportedLTS().  …
[15:49] <hml> stickupkid: the example reads to be what juju 2.3.x shouldn’t have for a defaul tto me
[15:50] <hml> stickupkid: done
[15:51] <stickupkid> hml, that was copy and pasted from juju source code
[15:51] <hml> ha
[15:52] <hml> stickupkid: from < 2015
[15:52] <hml> ?
[15:52] <stickupkid> yeah
[16:02] <stickupkid> hml, done
[16:04] <hml> stickupkid: looking
[16:05] <hml> stickupkid: approved


[15:49] <astraljava> Hmm... interesting. Muting works from Fn+F7, but unmuting doesn't.
[17:08] <knome> madnick, there will be no release-meeting on 23 or 30
[20:16] <planter> :)


[12:36] <ompaul> any idea where the fonts for the ubuntu logo are?
[12:40] <LaserJock> there is a package you can install, but I can't remember the exact name
[02:31] <nixternal> sudo apt-get install ttf-ubuntu-title
[02:31] <LaserJock> ah
[02:32] <nixternal> to late for ompaul though
[04:14] <jsgotangco> jjesse: the kubuntu laptop testing makes sense though, the problem is who will be focusing on things that won't work. KDE does some funky stuff that GNOME does differently and currently, most function keys fixed in Ubuntu only work with GNOME
[04:14] <jsgotangco> but some work like in toshiba sets, while KDE does things differently with Thinkpads and VAIOs
[04:14] <jsgotangco> would be interesting to see the difference though
[04:16] <jjesse> jsgotangco: i agree, i don't know who would be heading it, i'm just trying to bring attention to it
[04:17] <jsgotangco> its worth pursuing though
[04:17] <jjesse> i'm glad you think so
[04:17] <jsgotangco> but we can't expect mjg59 supporting it
[04:17] <jjesse> he heads up the laptop team?
[04:18] <jsgotangco> yeah
[04:18] <jsgotangco> its a gnome ballgame at the moment
[04:18] <jjesse> agreed
[04:18] <jjesse> though i thought i heard some discussion in regards to splitting up the release schedule?
[04:19] <jsgotangco> but it has been wildly successful
[04:19] <jsgotangco> ubuntu/kubuntu?
[04:19] <jsgotangco> dunno
[04:19] <jjesse> yeah splitting kubuntu into a seperate release schedule
[04:19] <jsgotangco> better ask Riddell, most of the kubuntu BOFs werent even published on the BoFicator of LP
[04:19] <jsgotangco> wasn't able to attend one even
[04:20] <jjesse> i will, i did notice that, i wonder if there wasn't enough intrest?
[04:20] <jsgotangco> no that's not it, i dunno, KDE had a lot of people in the summit
[04:21] <jsgotangco> we even had to loan ellen on some BoFs because she's the usability expert
[04:22] <jjesse> i noticed that, which is great, i'm big fan of adept usability
[04:50] <robotgeek> i'm trying to clean the page wiki.ubuntu.com/Kubuntu
[04:50] <jjesse> yay
[04:51] <robotgeek> looks like i'm going to move all the developers stuff into its own subpage
[04:51] <jjesse> cool
[05:08] <robotgeek> okay, first cleanup is done. i think i'll spend some cleanup on main help site
[05:36] <robotgeek> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UKUbuntuPresentation -> Delete?
[05:38] <nixternal> i wouldn't...that seems to be part of some UK team that just started recently
[05:38] <robotgeek> why is it on help.ubuntu.com? its not documentation :)
[05:38] <nixternal> true..did they created that after the move?
[05:39] <nixternal> no...that was created 7 days ago..it hasn't been that long already has it?
[05:39] <nixternal> no..that was just created 7 days ago...
[05:39] <robotgeek> nope, maybe move it to wiki.ubuntu.com ?
[05:40] <nixternal> i don't know why it is CatDoc though
[05:40] <robotgeek> maybe it got moved by mistake
[05:40] <nixternal> thats what I would do, unless someone stepped forward and said no
[05:40] <nixternal> actually..i think it was created right there after the move from the look sof it
[05:41] <nixternal> if you create a CatDoc on w.u.c it doesn't automatically get moved over correct?
[05:41] <nixternal> there is a redirect on w.u.c for that page too
[05:41] <robotgeek> anyways, i think i'll maintain a pagelist, and we can nuke them later on
[05:42] <Madpilot> nixternal, no, stuff added to CatDoc on wiki.u.c doesn't get moved automagically - that was a one-time deal
[05:42] <nixternal> ahhh
[05:42] <nixternal> i knew someone would come to and set me straight ;)
[05:42] <nixternal> so...was that page added after the move, or transfered due to the move?
[05:43] <nixternal> well hello there bhuvan
[05:43] <bhuvan> hello
[05:45] <Madpilot> nixternal, looks like it was created after the move
[05:45] <nixternal> ok..thats what i thought...just couldn't remember the actual date that went live
[09:40] <jenda> I need quick hints
[09:41] <jenda> What is wrong with ubuntuguide.org, doc.gwos.org, easylinux.info?
[09:41] <jenda> I don't recommend them, but I need good arguments to back me up within my LoCo :)
[09:41] <jenda> Hello Madpilot.
[09:41] <Madpilot> ubuntuguide.org is grossly out of date, or was last time I bothered looking at it
[09:41] <jenda> Well, it's written for Dapper.
[09:41] <Madpilot> doc.gwos.org has some good stuff, but it's not really complete
[09:42] <Madpilot> that easylinux one looks a bit like an updated ubuntuguide
[09:42] <jenda> it is.
[09:42] <Madpilot> it's got the same problem ug.org does - no explanations, it's all just cookbook stuff
[09:43] <rob> ubuntuguide.org is responsible for breaking many systems, its up there with automatix IMO
[09:43] <jenda> to me, it looks as if every single one was a huge waste of manpower.
[09:43] <jenda> rob: that bad?
[09:43] <rob> yep
[09:43] <Madpilot> jenda, yeah, that too
[09:43] <rob> the desktop guide was actually originally based on it, but turned into something a heck more reliablel
[09:44] <rob> slip of the finger there :)
[09:44] <jenda> OK
[09:45] <rob> for Breezy at least on help.ubuntu.com there was a one page version of the desktop guide (which would be similar in format at least), not sure if that was kept for Dapper
[09:45] <Madpilot> don't think it was
[09:47] <jenda> Nope - but I'd like to see it again. IT's great for Ctrl+F in firefox.
[09:47] <rob> yep
[09:47] <Madpilot> bug mdke at some point - a one-long-file version of the HTML could probably be generated
[09:47] <rob> yeah, pretty easily
[09:47] <jenda> yes, I will bug him.
[09:48] <Madpilot> I helped write the Ubuntu Desktop Guide, but I leave the actual generation/creation up to Matt :)
[09:49] <rob> iirc its just a matter of passing the right option when generating the html
[10:28] <Kamping_Kaiser> when does the DocteamProjects page change to reflect edgy docs status?
[10:34] (Madpilot/#ubuntu-doc) Kamping_Kaiser, hmm, it should probably do that soon :)
[10:34] (Kamping_Kaiser/#ubuntu-doc) cool :)
[10:34] (Madpilot/#ubuntu-doc) fire a message to the mailing list if it doesn't happen by the end of this week
[11:08] <jenda> https://help.ubuntu.com/
[11:08] <jenda> It would be nice if it were possible to access the other languages from there.
[11:10] <jenda> damn - it's almost impossible to find the desktop guide.
[11:10] <jenda> (in czech)
[11:10] <jsgotangco> yes it does make sense
[11:11] <jenda> can you help me find the guide? I need the link...
[11:11] <jsgotangco> hmm
[11:11] <jsgotangco> hold on
[11:12] <jsgotangco> what is czech?
[11:12] <jsgotangco> cz?
[11:12] <jenda> got it.
[11:12] <jenda> cs
[11:12] <jenda> you just substitute the C in the url
[11:12] <jsgotangco> yeah
[11:12] <jsgotangco> C is the default for GNOME
[11:13] <jenda> OK
[01:25] <kbrooks> Hello
[01:25] <kbrooks> https://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/gnome-app-install.html
[01:25] <kbrooks> Line quoted: "
[01:25] <kbrooks> Some applications and packages are not available to install using Add/Remove Applications. If you cannot find the package you are looking for, click Advanced which will open the Synaptic package manager (see below)."
[01:26] <kbrooks> Below? Shouldn't that mean Next?
[01:38] <jenda> hello kbrooks, you should probably ping whoever is in charge of that.
[01:39] <jenda> Or, sending an email to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>might be a good idea too.
[02:51] <mdke> jenda: help.ubuntu.com uses the default language in the browser
[02:52] <mdke> kbrooks: I think "below" is ok.
[02:52] <jenda> mdke: that's nice... but doesn't solve much. I prefer english opera, but sometimes need the czech guide to link folks to - am the only one? ;)
[02:53] <jenda> I really think there should be a language-crossroads or something like that.
[02:57] <mdke> jenda: no, I don't think you are the only one. We can think about adding a link, but I'm not sure how we'd do it effectively
[02:58] <mdke> jenda: in general local language documentation should be provided on the locoteam site, I think
[02:58] <jenda> well, I'm working on that for my own loco team... but can't do it globally.
[02:58] <mdke> sure
[02:59] <nixternal> mdke: it seems the only major request from the Kubuntu-devel meeting yesterday was...are you read?   Kubuntu theme for h.u.c and a redirect for help.kubuntu.com, which isn't even registered dns wise
[02:59] <nixternal> s/read/ready
[02:59] <jenda> However, if the line saying Ubuntu Desktop Guide html pdf etc. also said 'other languages' and linked to an index of those - that's effective and simple, IMO
[02:59] <mdke> jenda, I can help locoteams use our documentation. I'll think about how to make an index of languages
[02:59] <mdke> nixternal: I have discussed that in email with jon and jjesse
[02:59] <nixternal> great
[03:01] <mdke> should be easy for the wiki...
[03:01] <mdke> no idea how to do it for the static pages
[03:53] <jjesse> !ops
[03:53] <rob> ?
[03:53] <jsgotangco> lol
[03:53] <jjesse> just wondered if it worked in this channel as well
[03:53] <rob> heh
[03:53] <rob> no ubotu
[04:02] <Kamping_Kaiser> jjesse, thats a dangerous way to find out ;)
[04:12] <jenda> robitaille: thx for the fridge/meeting.
[04:12] <robitaille> jenda:  np
[04:12] <robitaille> it's my job :)
[04:15] <jenda>
[05:24] <jjesse> welcome jsgotangco
[05:24] <jsgotangco> hi
[05:24] <jsgotangco> welcme to what? heh
[05:31] <nixternal> welcome to our whacky world ;)
[05:32] <jsgotangco> meh i've been here since late 2004 heh
[05:33] <jjesse> mdke: you around, someone in community council is apoplying
[05:33] <jjesse> that needs some help w/ itialin language team references
[05:33] <jjesse> i forget when istarted hanging out in this wacky world
[05:33] <jsgotangco> around the time i wrote the quickguide for kubuntu in breezy methinks
[05:34] <nixternal> i kind of feel bad for that guy in the CC firing line right now...it looks by his wiki he has contributed..but didn't bring any backing
[05:34] <jsgotangco> or earlier
[05:34] <jjesse> nixternal: it took me two or three councils before i got in
[05:34] <jsgotangco> it happens
[05:34] <nixternal> hehe..i just started hanging out...coming from the Mepis community when they started switching to Ubuntu
[05:34] <jjesse> i had to bring riddell, mdke and a couple of hours for references :)
[05:34] <nixternal> thats why I am waiting jjesse...i will take my time and do more work
[05:35] <jjesse> nixternal: well i would be a refrence for you
[05:35] <nixternal> im in no rush
[05:35] <nixternal> i appreciate it jjesse..ALOT!!!
[05:36] <jjesse> i've been installing office 2007 beta for over an hour :(
[05:36] <nixternal> maybe the next CC meeting I will apply...i just like working with the community...it keeps me busy and my mind going...im not going anywhere...you are stuck with me for a while ;)
[05:36] <nixternal> you know jjesse, office2k7 is the only reason i might install windows here again...i definately want to play with it...i have windows on a vm..
[05:37] <nixternal> i just hope my next job doesn't require me to use windows all the time ;)
[05:37] <jsgotangco> is it really worth looking?
[05:38] <nixternal> it looks like it might be..anyting other then o2k3 is worth looking i think
[05:38] <nixternal> actually...everything i did with office i can do with OOo
[05:38] <nixternal> i wish there was better support with Koffice however since i do the K thing ;)
[05:38] <jsgotangco> i dunno, all my work involves a terminal so...
[05:39] <nixternal> lol...i remember those days jsgotangco when i worked for sun
[05:39] <nixternal> i miss it sometimes...but not that much
[05:39] <jsgotangco> really now
[05:39] <jsgotangco> most of my work involves either a terminal or a glade interface heh
[05:39] <nixternal> i used to work at Sun in Downer's Grove and Arlington Heights b4 they closed the offices
[05:40] <nixternal> i don't know if that sounds like fun anymore ;)
[05:40] <jsgotangco> heh
[05:40] <nixternal> most of my work involves messing around here on irc, since im enjoying the summer being a bum in sweet home chicago ;)
[05:41] <jsgotangco> ahh i wish i could work at home more often
[05:41] <nixternal> i have been doing some work through tacacs+ though when a client calls screaming
[05:49] <nixternal> jsgotangco: when you were in chicago, did you deal with any LUG's at all? I am trying to organise the Chicago LoCo Team, as there is a good deal of buzz in the forums and email, I just can't get them into IRC
[05:50] <jsgotangco> nope not really
[05:50] <jsgotangco> i thought it was a dead place for LUGs or just didn't stay long enough
[05:50] <nixternal> they aren't great thats for sure
[05:51] <nixternal> it is a very dead place for LUGs indead...there are a few posted...they just don't do anything...you might find 1 or 2 that preach FC or Slack
[05:51] <nixternal> most of them are future script kiddies
[06:24] <jsgotangco> goodnight
[08:07] <jjesse> mdke: when you have a chance can you edit the make file for kubuntu to build the adeptupdater.xml and addremoveprograms.xml
[09:35] <nixternal> documentation team meetings?  plans for any future ones at all?  just looking over DocumentationTeam/MeetingAgenda and notice the 6/16 @1700UTC still posted
[09:36] <jjesse> are meetings are sometimes few and far apart
[09:37] <nixternal> kind of figured that...probably the reason for the mass amounts of mail-list action
[09:37] <LaserJock> I think we should have a doc sprint sometime soon
[09:37] <nixternal> LaserJock: what happened to the PackagingGuide on the h.u.c?  it is gone with some hax0r message ;)
[09:37] <nixternal> im j/k...calm down ;)
[09:37] <LaserJock> shesh
[09:38] <nixternal> haha
[09:38] <nixternal> i was reading it..then jjesse let me in on it that you were the master mind..so of course i had to come up with something to mess with you
[09:38] <LaserJock> I was going to start yelling at Matthew
[09:38] <nixternal> hahaa
[09:38] <jjesse> hey dont' get me in troupble
[09:39] <nixternal> i have it here local anyways...as im sure many of us do...so there wouldn't have been a loss...my cron grabs updates periodically
[09:39] <nixternal> hahaha jjesse..busted!!!
[09:39] <nixternal> crimsun showed me where the packaging stuff was..go figure..what doesn't he do or know?
[09:39] <nixternal> im starting to think he is a bot
[09:39] <nixternal> ;)
[09:40] <nixternal> speaking of the east coast though...crimsun has the weather out there been bad??? or are you back up north?
[09:40] <LaserJock> yes, crimsun is an incredible individual, he seems to know everything and also does a lot of work outside Ubuntu. I have absolutely no idea how he does it
[09:41] <nixternal> me either
[09:41] <nixternal> malone to him is like a bone to a dog...try and beat him to the bugs..impossible..
[09:43] <crimsun> nixternal: it sucked last week, stranding me in the Baltimore/Washington, D.C., airport for 13.5 hours
[09:43] <crimsun> nixternal: otherwise it's a fairly average summer thus far
[09:43] <nixternal> good ol' BWI...thats where I used to live..i have a house..well my x does ;) in southern md
[09:44] <nixternal> she called and said it was bad
[09:44] <crimsun> yeah, tornado watches up and down the east coast, causing many airports to close
[09:44] <nixternal> ahhh
[09:44] <LaserJock> we've got a ton on fires here
[09:44] <nixternal> the weather channel has said very little
[09:45] <nixternal> where you at LaserJock?  arizona, california, nevada?
[09:45] <nixternal> ;)
[09:45] <nixternal> those seem to be the 3 burning
[09:45] <LaserJock> NV
[09:45] <nixternal> oh, and co
[09:45] <LaserJock> 14 mi. from CA
[09:45] <LaserJock> we had over a dozen fires start in my area yesterday alone
[09:45] <nixternal> tad bit smokey then for you
[09:45] <jjesse> nixternal: so if the packaging guide didn't answer the questions you had on #kubuntu-devel can you get laserjock to update the guide to answer them ??
[09:45] <LaserJock> 50,000 acres so far
[09:45] <nixternal> it did answer it jjesse
[09:45] <nixternal> crimsun of all people showed me ;)
[09:46] <LaserJock> jjesse: hehe
[09:46] <nixternal> ya LaserJock. i seen where lightning caused a few more over night
[09:46] <LaserJock> supposed to be the same this afternoon
[09:47] <LaserJock> could get pretty bad
[09:47] <nixternal> ya..they showed no rain, but wind for that entire area today
[09:47] <LaserJock> it rains, but with 10% humidity it doesn't get to the ground
[09:47] <nixternal> thats exactly what they said
[09:47] <nixternal> i was like huh..it rains but it doesn't
[09:47] <nixternal> hehe
[09:48] <nixternal> time of year to be a smoke jumper
[09:48] <LaserJock> yeah, you can actually see it raining above you
[09:48] <LaserJock> but nothing ever reaches you
[09:48] <nixternal> wow..now that is a trip
[09:48] <nixternal> when i stayed in san diego...when it rained, it rained


[19:58] <pleo__1> hi guys: someone have solved the bugs about alt gr in java application under ubuntu?
[19:58] <pleo__1> i've unistalled scim and configure gnome for use altgr and type {}, but under java applications (i need especially netbeans) it doesn't work
[20:01] <slytherin> pleo__1: is there a bug already for that?
[20:02] <pleo__1> well..i haven't found strong documentation: someone say that ia a java problem (it happens in all java application), someone a scim problem.
[20:02] <pleo__1> but no, i don't know if is a bug with and id
[20:02] <pleo__1> with an id
[20:02] <pleo__1> i just want to type {} in netbeans,,
[20:03] <slytherin> pleo__1: If there isn't one already, file one. No promise that it will be looked immediately, but it will be at some point of time.
[20:04] <pleo__1> ok
[20:04] <pleo__1> thanks!


 It was X-chat...
[12:47] <nixternal_> nalioth: sure
[12:47] <osxdude|desk> x-chat's away thingy
[12:47] <nalioth> hwo do you message an IP address?
[12:47] <ompaul> nalioth, I think I grok what nixternal_ wants
[12:47] <ompaul> nixternal_, pm
[12:47] <nalioth> i've /msg'd nixternal
[12:48] <ompaul> k
[12:48] <ompaul> all yours
[12:48] <nalioth> dunno how to get any closer to an IP
[12:48] <ompaul> no comment
[12:48] <nixternal_> nalioth: hahaha, msg nixternal_
[12:48] <nixternal_> me
[12:48] <ompaul> haha
[12:48] <ompaul> nixternal_, be nice
[12:49] <ompaul> hehe
[12:49] <ompaul> ohh dear I am tired
[12:49] <ompaul> it is late
[12:49] <nalioth> night, ompaul
[12:49] <ompaul> yeap
[12:49] <ompaul> just a mo
[12:50] <osxdude|desk> ompaul, you should expect no away msgs, no spamming, no long names (which nobody cares about), and no caps
[12:51] <nixternal> thanks nalioth!
[12:51] <nixternal> get out of here imposter nixternal_!
[12:52] <nixternal> damn comcast changed my IP and the silly dyndns broke
[12:52] <ompaul> osxdude|desk, you might want to rejoin #ubuntu
[12:52] <nalioth> osxdude|desk: please keep the Ubuntu CoC in mind, and enjoy #ubuntu
[12:53] <ompaul> nalioth, if you have anything running on that box -tab you know what
[12:53] <ompaul> you might want to move it - it is going to go down in a couple of weeks and come up with a fresh install
[12:53] <ompaul> but that is not for a few weeks
[12:54] <ompaul> gazzAK and his utf8
[12:54] <ompaul> meh
[12:54] <nalioth> ompaul: just poor old GnewSense
[12:54] <ompaul> he ain't doing much
[12:55] <nalioth> he's performing his function very well
[12:56] <ompaul> aye
[12:56] <ompaul> okay well I will talk with you before we take it down
[12:56] <ompaul> it will only have to be down for about 10 minutes
[12:56] <ompaul> but I will be messing about for a while getting passwords and stuf
[12:56] <ompaul> in order
[12:57] <ompaul> all in all it should be back up and running within 20 mins
[03:51] <jdong> nalioth or other staff around to serve a kline to user anculz?
[03:51] <jdong> he spammed all of the ubuntu dev channels with some rectum.whatever.com link
[03:53] <jdong> nvm, looks like he magically died
[04:09] <mneptok> %btlogin
[04:09] <mneptok> grah
[04:09] <mneptok> %login
[04:12] <Burgundavia> jdong: apparently miniville and antiville are some sort of french viral site
[04:13] <Burgundavia> you have a "city" at it, which grows with each click
[04:13] <jdong> Burgundavia: interesting....
[04:13] <jdong> Burgundavia: who names their city rectum???
[04:13] <Burgundavia> somebody with serious issues
[04:13] <jdong> LOL
[04:14] <Burgundavia> I think the anti site is if you want to destroy somebody elses city
[04:14] <jdong> interesting...
[04:31] <Tm_P> bah
[04:31] <Tm_P> BAH!
[05:00] <mneptok> FE Jayx!
[05:25] <Tm_P> nice, no hot water
[05:26] <Tm_P> hilarious (=
[05:26] <ubot3> In #ubuntu-ohio, vorian said:  !beryl is dead
[05:26] <vorian> no
[05:26] <vorian> i did not
[06:12] <mortici> can i please be tested for the dcc exploit on my router i change the port
[06:12] <mortici> err changed
[06:13] <Hobbsee> yep, you're fine.
[06:13] <mortici> can i find more info on this exploit?
[06:14] <Hobbsee> !exploit
[06:14] <Hobbsee> also, if you google "netgear irc exploit" you come up with some good links
[06:14] <mortici> awsome
[06:14] <Hobbsee> ubot3: ping
[06:14] <ubot3> pong
[06:14] <ubot3> pong
[06:14] <Hobbsee> !exploit
[06:14] <Hobbsee> ubot3: exploit
[06:14] <ubot3> There are people around who think it is funny to abuse a bug in certain routers by sending invalid DCC commands. When bitten by this bug ops in #ubuntu remove users so they are no longer targets. To fix it have a look here: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FixDCCExploit
[06:14] <mortici> so can i join the normal channels now?
[06:14] <Hobbsee> okay then...
[06:14] <Hobbsee> i'm trying to find your ban still...
[06:15] <mortici> awsome thank you :)
[06:15] <Hobbsee> this was from ubuntu?
[06:16] <mortici> no kubuntu
[06:16] <Hobbsee> ahhhh...
[06:17] <mortici> :)
[06:17] <Hobbsee> mortici: well, that explains why i cant find any part of you on the #ubuntu banlist, doesnt it?  :P
[06:17] <Hobbsee> ban removed, thanks for your patience :)
[06:17] <mortici> hahah not a problem :)
[06:17] <mortici> glad you took care of me :)
[06:17] <mortici> now to fix my sound problem with some assistance
[06:17] <Hobbsee> good luck!
[06:17] <mortici> thank you!
[06:17] <mortici> :)
[06:18] <Hobbsee> :)
[06:19] <mneptok> the ban remains on your sound card.
[06:23] <Hobbsee> mneptok!
[06:28] <mneptok> ARR
[06:39] <Amaranth> !thanks
[06:39] <Amaranth> oh, bleh
[07:43] <mneptok> ummm
[07:44] <mneptok> +m does nossing?
[07:44] <Hobbsee> mneptok: where?
[07:44] <mneptok> no need now
[07:44] <mneptok> what is +m of this POS network? :D
[07:45] <Hobbsee> mneptok: is the channel +z?
[07:45] <Hobbsee> mneptok: and were you still op'd?
[07:45] <mneptok> #kubuntu is, aye
[07:45] <mneptok> i was opped and could /mode
[07:46] <mneptok> ./mode #kubuntu +m
[07:46] <mneptok> and i watched the flood
[07:46] <mneptok> (an unintentional one)
[07:47] <Hobbsee> mneptok: +z, means that as an op, you will see the flodo anyway
[07:47] <Hobbsee> including anyone +q'd
[07:48] <Hobbsee> what i saw was this.
[07:48] <Hobbsee> [15:43]  *** mneptok sets the channel mode to 'moderated'.
[07:48] <Hobbsee> [15:43]  <-- pagan0ne has left this channel.
[07:48] <Hobbsee> [15:43]  *** mneptok sets the channel mode to 'unmoderated'.
[07:48] <mneptok> lovely
[07:48] <Hobbsee> mneptok: but it means that only the people +o can see it
[07:49] <Hobbsee> so it does work
[07:49] <Hobbsee> if you want to black hole them where absolutely no one is there, use -z
[07:49] <mneptok> 'k
[07:49] <Hobbsee> which usually isnt a good idea
[07:50] <Hobbsee> easier just to deop.  serves the same purpose :P
[07:50] <mneptok> -z means +o+v don't see bsocked PRIVMSG to channel?
[07:50] <mneptok> *blocked
[07:51] <Hobbsee> hm?
[07:52] <mneptok> nm. i'll play with a test channel :)
[09:56] <SoulPropagation> Why am I banned from #ubuntu-offtopic? I don't think I've even been in there
[10:06] <Amaranth> @login
[10:06] <Amaranth> arg
[10:07] <elkbuntu> i think he might be banned because of a ban on eleaf
[10:07] <elkbuntu> who happens to also have the name of ethan
[10:08] <Amaranth> yep
[10:23] <Tm_P> anyone familiar with joomla and wiki combination?
[10:28] <Burgundavia> Tm_P: what sort?
[10:38] <Tm_T> we need to somehow include wiki to joomla
[10:39] <Burgundavia> you want a wiki in joomla?
[10:39] <Tm_T> yes
[10:39] <Tm_T> and I'm not sure what is reasonable method
[10:39] <Burgundavia> I would rather use another wiki like Mediawiki or Moin and theme them the same
[10:40] <Tm_T> problem is, we like to have same authentication to joomla and to wiki, if possiblr
[10:40] <Tm_T> and being separate means separate logins
[10:41] <Burgundavia> you can use LDAP, although Joomla auth against ldap is a major headache
[10:41] <Burgundavia> apparently Joomla 1.5 is going to be better
[10:41] <Tm_T> LDAP, hum
[10:41] <elkbuntu> Tm_P, there are things like mambowiki which integrates mediawiki iirc
[10:42] <Tm_T> elkbuntu: and bundles own (old) mediawiki with it, IIRC
[10:42] <Burgundavia> http://extensions.joomla.org/component/option,com_mtree/task,viewlink/link_id,221/Itemid,35/
[10:42] <Tm_T> if I didn't totally misread
[10:42] <Burgundavia> looks like 1.5.6
[10:42] <elkbuntu> http://sammoffatt.com.au/jauthtools/index.php?title=Main_Page might be useful too
[10:43] <Tm_T> elkbuntu: will look, thanks
[10:43] <Burgundavia> don't try the last link elkbuntu used
[10:43] <Burgundavia> or, at least, try it on a test joomla instance first
[10:45] <Tm_T> ofcourse we'll having test environment (:
[10:45] <Tm_T> with Joomla 1.5 beta and all ;)
[10:45] <Tm_T> thanks, looks like we might try ldap
[11:49] <PriceChild> *sees the first harry potter spam in debian
[12:08] <Amaranth_> yay bot attack :/
[12:10] <jrib> seems like he's having a little trouble
[12:11] <Amaranth> let's not let him get started :)
[12:15] <Amaranth> the morons are out in full force
[04:51] <elkbuntu> mc44, what the hell is she on about?
[04:51] <mc44> elkbuntu: no idea
[04:51] <mc44> but grr at people posting spoilers in general. :(
[04:51] <elkbuntu> yeah
[04:52] <elkbuntu> i havent even read the last book yet ffs
[04:52] <nalioth> spoilers?
[04:52] <nalioth> where?
[04:52] <elkbuntu> nalioth, harry potter spoiler link in #ubuntu
[04:53] <nalioth> ban them forever!
[04:53] <nalioth> :P
[04:53] <mc44> nalioth: k-line pls
[04:53] <PriceChild> When's the book out?
[04:53] <mc44> :)
[04:53] <mc44> PriceChild: 2 days or so
[04:53] <elkbuntu> PriceChild, about 36hrs or something
[04:53] <Hobbsee> PriceChild: saturday.
[04:55] <nalioth> get in line now, so you'll be the FIRST in your neighborhood to get it!!!!!
[04:55] <mc44> :)
[04:55] <Hobbsee> haha
[04:56] <nalioth> Hobbsee: stores here open at midnight
[04:56] <nalioth> no mornings involved
[04:56] <mc44> meh, I just want to read it without some git on the internet having the pleasure of spoilering me
[04:56] <Hobbsee> ahh.  i'ts 9am here
[04:56] <nalioth> Hobbsee: they always open at midnight on release days for much-sought-after-cruft
[04:57] <Hobbsee> ahhh
[04:57] <nalioth> give themselves a 9 hour head start
[04:58] <PriceChild> pfft Hobbsee you're always on in the morning
[04:59] <PriceChild> exactly
[04:59] <Hobbsee> PriceChild: yes, the part before i've gone to bed.
[04:59] <PriceChild> true :)
[05:00] <elkbuntu> nalioth, can you think of any key combo that would conveniently kill a psycho gdm and keep it killed, so as to get to a functional tty to debug :(
[05:01] <nalioth> elkbuntu: ctrl-alt-f4  > sudo /etc/init.d/gdm stop
[05:02] <elkbuntu> nalioth, i forgot to mention that ctrl-alt-F# freezes the whole thing right up
[05:03] <nalioth> elkbuntu: ahhh
[05:03] <nalioth> you're [adjectived]
[05:03] <nalioth> i guess ctrl-alt-backspace doesn't work, either?
[05:03] <elkbuntu> nalioth, it restarts x. not kill it off
[05:04] <mc44> elkbuntu: boot into recovery mode maybe?
[05:04] <nalioth> and it returns in psycho mode, elkbuntu ?
[05:04] <elkbuntu> the current gutsy tribe3 compiz candidate does not agree with VIA graphics cards
[05:04] <nalioth> mc44: i think she's not wanting to reboot
[05:04] <mc44> ah
[05:04] <elkbuntu> nalioth, it turns into this mode http://geekosophical.net/random/gutsytesting/RMOV0307.ogg
[05:05] <elkbuntu> mc44, livecd dear
[05:05] <mc44> oh hmm. So I shouldn't bother testing the tribe3 cd yet? :)
[05:12] <elkbuntu> mc44, if you have a VIA Unichrome graphics chip. no
[05:13] <elkbuntu> there's also a possible FS corruption somewhere
[05:13] <elkbuntu> that affects more than just via
[05:14] <Jordan_U> elkbuntu, A little late but sudo /etc/init.d/gdm stop if you can get to a failsafe terminal
[05:14] <elkbuntu> Jordan_U, you cant even get to that
[05:15] <elkbuntu> Jordan_U, the failsafe terminal.. fails
[05:15] <elkbuntu> since it is embedded into the GDM
[05:15] <Hobbsee> elkbuntu: what was yoru bug # again?
[05:15] <elkbuntu> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/126971
[05:15] <Jordan_U> elkbuntu, Boot into single user mode?
[05:15] <elkbuntu> Jordan_U, livecd
[05:15] <Jordan_U> elkbuntu, You can still pass kernel parameters
[05:17] <Hobbsee> elkbuntu: thanks
[05:17] <elkbuntu> Jordan_U, even if i can boot into a failsafe terminal, i still need the gdm to run and die before i can have logs of it dying. but once it's run, i cant switch ttys
[05:17] <Jordan_U> elkbuntu, Install ssh
[05:17] <elkbuntu> ... oh
[05:17] <elkbuntu> i get you
[05:18] <elkbuntu> Hobbsee, do you think that would work?
[05:18] <Hobbsee> elkbuntu: if you can ssh in, and do it that way, sure
[05:18] <elkbuntu> someone feed me boot options for a singleuser
[05:19] <elkbuntu> because this idea is crazy enough it might just work
[05:19] <nalioth> elkbuntu: do you have 2 computers in the house?
[05:20] <Jordan_U> elkbuntu, Just add the parameter "single"
[05:20] <elkbuntu> nalioth, yes, but it would involve rebooting this one for the params. google works for those too
[05:20] <elkbuntu> Jordan_U, ok thanks
[05:20] <nalioth> elkbuntu: i was gonna suggest you ssh in to the afflicted box
[05:20] <elkbuntu> nalioth, read up please dear ;)
[05:30] <ikonia> is anyone awake please
[05:30] <Hobbsee> no
[05:30] <Pici> I am
[05:31] <Hobbsee> we're all asleep
[05:32] <PriceChild> Hello ikonia?
[05:33] <ikonia> PriceChild: not to worry - he left
[05:33] <ikonia> apologies I'm using a temporary client and didn't see your response
[05:33] <ikonia> I'm not used to this interface
[05:33] <PriceChild> Hobbsee, lol are those OMGsomething bugs?
[05:33] <Hobbsee> PriceChild: which?
[05:33] <Hobbsee> PriceChild: OMGTSIF?
[05:33] <Hobbsee> which bugs?
[05:34] <PriceChild> what's that one stand for again?
[05:34] <PriceChild> oh wait don't :P
[05:34] <PriceChild> i remember
[05:34] <Pici> omg this thing is frelled?
[05:34] <Pici> er
[05:34] <Hobbsee> no, hopefully we dont hit any more of them
[05:34] <PriceChild> the ones elky is having troubles with
[05:34] <Pici> gj Pici
[05:34] <elkbuntu> PriceChild, omg this s*** is f***ed
[05:34] <Hobbsee> PriceChild: meh, standard compiz bug, doesnt seem to effect much HW, not worth delaying the release over
[05:35] <PriceChild> can i quote that as "pah, elkbuntu doesn't matter"?
[05:35] <Hobbsee> PriceChild: if we delayed for that, i'd also want to see this fs breakage fixed too
[05:35] <Pici> I was close ;)
[05:35] <Hobbsee> as that'll hit more machines
[05:35] <Hobbsee> no
[05:35] <Hobbsee> elkbuntu: actually, i'ts omg the sky is falling
[05:35] <elkbuntu> Hobbsee, 'not much hardware' in this house is 1/3 of the machines then :
[05:35] <elkbuntu> Hobbsee, i like mine better
[05:35] <Hobbsee> elkbuntu: hehe, i meant globally, across ubuntu :P
[05:35] <Hobbsee> elkbuntu: hehe, yeah
[05:36] <PriceChild> elkbuntu, gimme some input on my email on what we should add to the guidelines :P
[05:36] <elkbuntu> Hobbsee, well im working on what i have a chance of getting an in-road on, but the FS breakage should be dealt with imho
[05:36] <Hobbsee> elkbuntu: i know.
[05:36] <PriceChild> please :)
[05:37] <Hobbsee> elkbuntu: if we actually *had* a fix for it, that we knew worked, then it'd be a different story
[05:37] <elkbuntu> someone needs to do some hoodoo for ogra
[05:37] <elkbuntu> Hobbsee, well aware
[05:37] <elkbuntu> Hobbsee, if oli can accurately diagnose it, it will be a different story i think
[05:37] <Hobbsee> elkbuntu: however, the fact that it doesnt, and is fairly complex, means that we'd effectively skip tribe 3, or have to hold another block fo main freeze, etc
[05:38] <Hobbsee> true
[05:38] <mc44> PriceChild: why not "Retaliation is unacceptable" :P
[05:38] <GazzaK> wassn't me
[05:39] <Jordan_U> elkbuntu, How is it working out with single user mode ssh and all?
[05:39] <elkbuntu> Hobbsee, but i ddo agree if there is a list of known dead hardware, it's feasible to have a nice big red 72pt 'YES WE KNOW THESE ARE B0RKED' sign with it
[05:39] <Hobbsee> elkbuntu: heh :)
[05:39] <elkbuntu> Jordan_U, slowly. ssh to a livecd isnt the speediest of shell environments ;)
[05:39] <Hobbsee> there's no list, unfortunately.
[05:40] <elkbuntu> Hobbsee, i didnt say it had to be complete from the beginning
[05:40] <PriceChild> mc44, meh that could stop say retaliating against bot attacks by using access to ban for example
[05:40] <elkbuntu> and putting the tribe out will very likely assist in diagnosis
[05:40] <Hobbsee> elkbuntu: that's what i'm thinking
[05:42] <mc44> PriceChild: only if you completely redefine retaliation :P
[05:42] <PriceChild> mc44, :)
[05:43] <elkbuntu> hmm... what is a command to watch a log real-time? is it tail or is that just a once-off?
[05:43] <Pici> elkbuntu: tail -f
[05:43] <elkbuntu> Pici, thanks
[05:46] <ikonia> guys please keep an eye on zepolen in #ubuntu - he was the one trolling and just being a pain earlier. He left but has come back
[05:46] <elkbuntu> Hobbsee, what does single user set as the password for the root user, or is there none?
[05:46] <Hobbsee> elkbuntu: there is none.
[05:46] <nalioth> elkbuntu: there is no root user, is there?
[05:46] <ikonia> elkbuntu: it doesn't set one
[05:47] <Hobbsee> elkbuntu: actually, it's blank
[05:47] <Hobbsee> elkbuntu: which is also a string fo characters, which ogra knows about
[05:48] <elkbuntu> nalioth, single user boot option mode
[05:53] <elkbuntu> heh... didnt think to create a user until now
[05:55] <elkbuntu> grrr
[05:55] <Hobbsee> \o/
[05:57] <elkbuntu> wtf it still wont let me in
[05:58] <Jordan_U> elkbuntu: ssh?
[05:58] <elkbuntu> Jordan_U, yes. single user root doesnt have an actual password
[05:59] <Jordan_U> elkbuntu: Just to cover all bases you have installed openssh-server?
[05:59] <elkbuntu> Jordan_U, yes
[05:59] <elkbuntu> melissa@centaur:~$ ssh<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[05:59] <elkbuntu><EMAIL_ADDRESS>password:
[05:59] <elkbuntu> Permission denied, please try again.
[05:59] <elkbuntu><EMAIL_ADDRESS>password:
[05:59] <elkbuntu> Permission denied, please try again.
[05:59] <elkbuntu><EMAIL_ADDRESS>password:
[05:59] <elkbuntu> is kinda the problem
[06:00] <Jordan_U> passwd ?
[06:01] <Jordan_U> elkbuntu: have you set a root password?
[06:01] <ikonia> if its on the network its not in single user mode
[06:01] <elkbuntu> ikonia, try tell the livecd that
[06:01] <mc44> elkbuntu: log in as ubuntu/ubuntu?
[06:02] <ikonia> elkbuntu: boot from your normal grub menu (no cd) interupt it and root "single" after the linx kernel boot line eg: root=/dev/hda1 single
[06:02] <ikonia> elkbuntu: you'll get put into single user on your current system then
[06:03] <elkbuntu> ikonia, it's not that simple. there is no grub on this system yet. this system only has XP on the hdd. i am trying to install gutsy, but this is not even booting the daily. i am trying to get some form of evaluation of the gdm log to find out why
[06:03] <Jordan_U> elkbuntu: If you want an even crazier Idea you could try enabling persistence :)
[06:04] <ikonia> elkbuntu you could always just boot the livecd and mount the hard disk manually ?
[06:04] <ikonia> take a look at the gdm log
[06:04] <ikonia> ooh
[06:04] <ikonia> sorry
[06:05] <ikonia> ONLY has XP on it
[06:05] <elkbuntu> ikonia, yes, i'm rebuilding the machine.
[06:05] <ikonia> elkbuntu: where are you trying to see the gdm log
[06:05] <ikonia> from the gusty install cd ?
[06:05] <ikonia> or a previous install ?
[06:05] <elkbuntu> ikonia, as the livecd boots
[06:05] <ikonia> elkbuntu ahhh got you
[06:06] <ikonia> elkbuntu can you not let it boot and then drop into a terminal ?
[06:06] <elkbuntu> ikonia, that's the part of the gdm breakage that makes it oh so much fun. no. it locks up
[06:06] <elkbuntu> why else would i be trying to see the log via ssh to a livecd. sheesh :
[06:07] <ikonia> elkbuntu ahh I see
[06:07] <ikonia> as you say, not simple
[06:07] <Jordan_U> elkbuntu: I assume safe graphics mode is no help?
[06:07] <mc44> elkbuntu: did try ssh with ubuntu as the user?
[06:08] <elkbuntu> mc44, yes. single user mode has one user. root
[06:08] <mc44> elkbuntu: passwd doesn't work?
[06:09] <Jordan_U> elkbuntu: Is there something you could do to get X to fail to start at boot instead of doing single user mode?
[06:09] <ikonia> elkbuntu are you creating the cd your self or using a pre-build iso  ?
[06:09] <elkbuntu> Jordan_U, no. there's no 'kill x' keycombo
[06:09] <elkbuntu> ikonia, pre-built gutsy daily build
[06:09] <ikonia> rats so you can't even add a user and re-build
[06:09] <elkbuntu> ZOMG I AM IN
[06:10] <ikonia> elkbuntu: how ?
[06:10] <elkbuntu> i was doing the password bit wrong
[06:10] <elkbuntu> since i always have to read the goddam man page to do passwd right
[06:10] <Jordan_U> elkbuntu: I meant more along the lines of a kernel parameter that would screw something up so that x would crash when it tried to load rather than prevent it from trying
[06:10] <mc44> heh
[06:10] <elkbuntu> since i do it like once every 6mths
[06:12] <Jordan_U> elkbuntu: I would loan you my card if I could, it's a guarenteed fail, won't even work with VESA :)
[06:12] <elkbuntu> Jordan_U, well actually, this VIA doesnt like the safe graphics mode either. but that's part of the FS b0rkage that is making this oh so more fun
[06:13] <elkbuntu> Jordan_U, we have 2 nice complex breakages ;)
[06:14] <Jordan_U> elkbuntu: If you use safe graphics mode will X fail to load?
[06:14] <mc44> seems a bit silly to release the tribe then/ *coughs and runs from Hobbsee fast*
[06:14] <Hobbsee> mc44: there is no good solution
[06:14] <elkbuntu> Jordan_U, it doesnt get as far as x actually
[06:14] <Hobbsee> mc44: excluding the one about early testing.  which obviously we cant go back and do
[06:14] <elkbuntu> (hint, that bit is not to do with the via)
[06:15] <elkbuntu> Jordan_U, if you want to see an interesting error: http://geekosophical.net/random/gutsytesting/RIMG0308.JPG
[06:15] <Jordan_U> elkbuntu: Isn't that what you want, it will keep the GDM from loading
[06:15] <elkbuntu> Jordan_U, it doesnt get as far as a prompt. see the pic
[06:15] <Jordan_U> elkbuntu: I am actually console bound trying to get X to start on the daily :)
[06:16] <mc44> Hobbsee: I suppose it depends on what the point of the Tribe cds are in the first place
[06:16] <elkbuntu> Jordan_U, a functional tty?! WOW!!!!
[06:16] <mc44> Hobbsee: if they were perfect we could release now :P
[06:17] <Jordan_U> elkbuntu: Yes, because X never started :) I am trying to cause the same serendipitous failure for you now :)
[06:17] <Hobbsee> heh
[06:17] <elkbuntu> Jordan_U, you literally get trapped in the looping gdm, until you do something that makes the whole damn thing freeze and the only way to a sane shutdown is ctrl-alt-del
[06:18] <PriceChild> Hobbsee, it was gonna happen eventually
[06:18] <Jordan_U> elkbuntu: out of curiosity does alt+sysrq+ ( whatever key gives you keyboard input ) let you switch to a tty?
[06:19] <Jordan_U> Can't confortably google the key right now :)
[06:20] <Jordan_U> Ok, I think I have it to the point where I can start X, should I run startx to bypass the GDM or try the GDM ( considering I have openssh-server installed and may be able to get some logs ) ?
[06:21] <Hobbsee> PriceChild: so it seems.
[06:22] <elkbuntu> anyway. i have logs now :D
[06:23] <Hobbsee> yay!
[06:23] <mc44> Hobbsee: I know who the target it, don't worry :)
[06:23] <Hobbsee> :)
[06:28] <Jordan_U> Well that failed miserably
[06:30] <Jordan_U> So again, if I am able to get X to start should I try logging in from GDM?
[06:31] <Jordan_U> So again, if I am able to get X to start should I try logging in from GDM?
[06:32] <Jordan_U> elkbuntu: ?
[06:33] <elkbuntu> Jordan_U, are you able to get the xorg log onto a pastebin at all?
[06:33] <Jordan_U> elkbuntu: If I can get another machine to ssh into this one yes
[06:34] <Jordan_U> elkbuntu: I think that is one of the things upstream can grab also
[06:34] <elkbuntu> what is the hurdle to that atm?
[06:35] <Jordan_U> elkbuntu: Installing fglrx and convincing my friend to let me borrow his laptop :)
[06:37] <Jordan_U> So should I try it? How likely am I to have the same problem with gdm and how importand is getting the logs?
[06:38] <elkbuntu> Jordan_U, well, if i can see the logs, i can maybe suggest a way to get it at least bootable
[06:38] <Jordan_U> elkbuntu: Trying now...
[06:39] <elkbuntu> i have a few ATIs myself. im not exactly a newbie to their issues
[06:40] <Jordan_U> elkbuntu: gdm doesn't seem to be doing anything, I ran sudo /etc/init.d/gdm start and so far nothing has happened
[06:40] <elkbuntu> Jordan_U, get me a copy of the /var/log/Xorg.0.log please
[06:40] <Jordan_U> elkbuntu: OK, I'll try
[06:42] <elkbuntu> Jordan_U, if you cant manage a ssh gig. try installing apache and cping it to /var/www/ and giving me a url
[06:45] <elkbuntu> wtf? pitti nicked off too? :(
[06:47] <Jordan_U> elkbuntu: I think that what I have so far is just going to show you my VESA driver problem
[06:48] <elkbuntu> Jordan_U, probably. let me decide
[06:48] <Jordan_U> I am saving things to a flash drive so anything you want me to get / try before I reboot?
[06:50] <elkbuntu> not at this point
[06:50] <Jordan_U> elkbuntu: X / GDM has started !
[06:50] <elkbuntu> Jordan_U, how did you do that?!
[06:51] <Jordan_U> elkbuntu: installed ati drivers and started gdm, gnome-session is started also :)
[06:51] <Jordan_U> I am going to try to pastebin / connect from X
[06:51] <elkbuntu> imagine that
[06:51] <elkbuntu> i suspect the problem with the vesa was certain modules enabled, btw
[06:52] <Jordan_U> elkbuntu: Just so you know the VESA problem also exists for me in Edgy / Feisty
[06:53] <Jordan_U_X> Hi :)
[06:53] <elkbuntu> Jordan_U, ati cant cope with it's own drivers half the time, let alone those for something else :
[06:54] <elkbuntu> brb, need nicotine after the ssh-to-livecd trauma
[06:55] <Jordan_U_X> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/30454/
[06:57] <Jordan_U_X> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/30455/ ( Xorg.0.log.old )
[06:58] <elkbuntu> ok, i'll look in a bit
[09:41] <jrib> heh, their random text managed to hilight me
[09:42] <mc44> there was enough of it :)


[12:12] <TheLordOfTime> is there any way to force-ignore this error?  since the package is heading to a PPA.  dpkg-source: error: Version number suggests Ubuntu changes, but Maintainer: does not have Ubuntu address  (and i'm not supposed to change the Maintainer: field)
[12:12] <tumbleweed> TheLordOfTime: I think persia is giving you pretty good advice in #ubuntu-packaging
[12:13] <TheLordOfTime> tumbleweed:  which is going against what's already in palce on my system
[12:13] <TheLordOfTime> tumbleweed:  i've had DEBEMAIL set for my @ubuntu.com email for the past 6 months.  otherwise, the system can't ID what signing key to use.
[12:13] <tumbleweed> TheLordOfTime: there are only two solutions, and he's suggested both of them
[16:34] <Laney> mfisch: merci
[18:02] <cjwatson> TheLordOfTime: I set DEBSIGN_KEYID to an explicit key ID in ~/.devscripts, rather than having debsign work it out from my e-mail address.  You could do that.
[18:02] <obounaim> Hello
[18:02] <TheLordOfTime> true, i'll have to set that next time i stab my .devscripts
[18:03] <TheLordOfTime> i'll do that later this evening, after i replace a few componetns in my system.
[18:03] <obounaim> Why http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/bugs/rcbugs/raring/ does not show http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=%23619677
[18:05] <jtaylor> probably because its tagged kfreebsd
[18:48] <obounaim> jtaylor, thanks.
[18:49] <obounaim> To upload a source package to a ppa, does it have to be signed, I want to test if a debian source package builds correctly on amd64?
[18:50] <TheLordOfTime> obounaim, you still need to sign the package with a GPG key that is on launchpad.
[18:50] <TheLordOfTime> for it to work with PPAs.
[18:50] <TheLordOfTime> (even if the architecture is amd64 only)
[18:52] <obounaim> How can I do that without modifying  the changelog
[18:53] <TheLordOfTime> out of curiosity, what "package" are you test-building?
[18:54] <obounaim> gfarm2fs
[18:54] <TheLordOfTime> this for a bugfix or something?
[18:56] <obounaim> I want to see if syncing the new version from Debian will fix an existing bug in Ubuntu #837317
[18:56] <obounaim> I have an i386 Ubuntu on my machine so I want to use a ppa to see if it builds correctly on amd64
[18:57]  * TheLordOfTime checks something
[18:58] <TheLordOfTime> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+source/gfarm2fs/+builds
[18:58] <TheLordOfTime> looks like somewhere along the line it built for all archs
[18:58] <TheLordOfTime> any specific Ubuntu verison you're looking at?
[18:59] <TheLordOfTime> (also, that bug you posted, its "Fix Released" for Oneiric)
[18:59] <TheLordOfTime> s/posted/referenced/
[19:01] <obounaim> I agree the current version in Ubuntu builds on all version, What I am trying to do is to see if the new version of the package in Debian fixes the  #837317 bug
[19:02] <obounaim> in order to drop Ubuntu changes and sync the new version of Debian, or if the build fails do a merge
[19:02] <TheLordOfTime> ah.
[19:03] <TheLordOfTime> well i've done test-ports myself of $various_debian_packages, and modified thechangelogs for one of my testing PPAs.
[19:04] <TheLordOfTime> working on php5.4.x ports from Debian to Precise right now for a PPA of mine, same concept.
[19:04] <TheLordOfTime> just create a changelog entry saying no-changes build-test from Debian or something.
[19:04] <TheLordOfTime> unless the MOTUs say that's bad
[19:04] <TheLordOfTime> or someone who's higher up the food chain than me :P
[19:04] <obounaim> So there is now way to sign a source package without changing the changelog
[19:04] <TheLordOfTime> that's not what i said?
[19:04] <obounaim> sorry
[19:05] <TheLordOfTime> actually i misinterpreted you
[19:05] <TheLordOfTime> you might be able to reupload the debian source package, but... the PPAs might not accept it
[19:06] <TheLordOfTime> if i remember right the PPA builders check the signature...
[19:06] <obounaim> I tried "dput -u" but it didn't work
[19:06] <TheLordOfTime> what error(s)?
[19:06] <obounaim> I had no errors but the package didn't show up in the ppa
[19:06] <tumbleweed> personally, my signing is untirely disconnected from building
[19:07] <TheLordOfTime> tumbleweed, doesn't the PPA processor check PGP key signatures on uploads?
[19:07] <tumbleweed> I have DEBUILD_DPKG_BUILDPACKAGE_OPTS="-i -I -uc -us" so, it never signs when I build
[19:07] <tumbleweed> I sign with debsign before uploading
[19:08]  * TheLordOfTime reads the manpage for those commands.
[19:08] <tumbleweed> (I build source packages at least 20x more often than I sign and upload them)
[19:08] <TheLordOfTime> s/commands/arguments/
[19:08] <tumbleweed> err I should have said "in my ~/.devscripts"
[19:08] <TheLordOfTime> tumbleweed, he's testing amd64 builds, not i386 which is his system's architecture.
[19:08] <TheLordOfTime> tumbleweed, same difference?  :P
[19:08] <tumbleweed> and the -i -I are unrelated to signing
[19:08]  * TheLordOfTime assumed it was in ~/.devscripts
[19:09] <tumbleweed> to be clear, when I said bulid there, I meant build locally (debuld / dpkg-buildpackage)
[19:10] <TheLordOfTime> also assumed.
[19:10] <TheLordOfTime> having said this, i think what obounaim's goal is, is to use the PPAs to test whether amd64 builds in Ubuntu for the Debian version of the package they mentioned
[19:11] <tumbleweed> obounaim: do you not have amd64-capable hardware?
[19:11] <TheLordOfTime> but upload without signing it themselves or without makikng a changelog entry
[19:11] <tumbleweed> using PPAs for test-building is fairly painful, because PPA builds can take a while...
[19:11] <TheLordOfTime> tumbleweed, for the record: <obounaim> I have an i386 Ubuntu on my machine so I want to use a ppa to see if it builds correctly on amd64
[19:11] <TheLordOfTime> (scrollbacks, i know)
[19:11] <TheLordOfTime> and i agree, amd64 builds are obscenely long wait times
[19:11] <tumbleweed> how does one still get i386 hardware?
[19:11]  * TheLordOfTime has run into this twice in three days
[19:11] <TheLordOfTime> tumbleweed, some older netbooks >3 years old are i386 only
[19:11] <tumbleweed> that's true
[19:11] <obounaim> TheLordOfTime, That's true I don't have amd64-capable hardware.
[19:12] <TheLordOfTime> and of course ancient machines.
[19:13] <obounaim> I have amd64-capable hardware but I have a i386 of Ubuntu to be correct
[19:13] <TheLordOfTime> well there's the problem.
[19:13] <tumbleweed> you can install an amd64 kernel, and then you'll be able to have amd64 chroots
[19:13] <TheLordOfTime> what tumbleweed said.
[19:16] <obounaim> How can I do that?
[19:20] <tumbleweed> hrm, Ubuntu dosen't have -amd64 kernels, so I assume you'd do it with multiarch
[19:22] <obounaim> I have signed the .changes file with debsign and upload it to a ppa but it was rejected "Rejected:Unable to find distroseries: unstable:
[19:22] <tumbleweed> PPAs don't build for Debian
[19:24] <Laney> you can override the target suite at upload time
[19:24] <Laney> https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA/Uploading#Using_packages_from_other_distributions
[21:59] <bdrung> Quintasan_: poke
[22:00] <bdrung> Quintasan_: now it's your turn to sign my key
[23:27] <thedoctor> i have a question about a package i would like to see carry through
[23:29] <thedoctor> i would like to see the browser "Opera" come to the universe
[23:29] <thedoctor> is this a good endeavor?
[23:31] <jtaylor> its closed source
[23:31] <jtaylor> so not going to happen
[23:31] <jtaylor> opera provides an own repository which works fine
[23:55] <thedoctor> so how come other closed source software are on the universe?
[23:56] <jtaylor> example?
[23:56] <xnox> "Opera" can enter the extras repository or restricted, if Opera the vendor decides to distribute it there.
[23:57] <jtaylor> for restricted you'd have to deal with canonical or?
[23:57] <jtaylor> it could go into multiverse but I don't see the need
[23:57] <xnox> Opera needs to allow re-distribution. It's illegal to take software and redistribute it, unless you have permission to do so (which there is a permission to do so)
[23:57] <xnox> thedoctor: if you want Opera in Ubuntu, you need to ask/push Opera to do so.
[23:58] <jtaylor> I'm an opera user myself
[23:58] <jtaylor> I just use the repository opera themself provide
[23:58] <jtaylor> never had issues
[23:58] <xnox> jtaylor: no. restricted & multiverse are both component of Ubuntu. And both require permission to redistribute.
[23:58] <xnox> jtaylor: "partner" repository is via canonical.
[23:58] <thedoctor> Okay i was wondering why this hadnt happened yet,
[23:58] <thedoctor> makes sense


[20:54] <mthx|laptop> FYI - Some of us in Northfield are starting a Coder Dojo. Here are the details! https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/norlug/HWSqi489WjU