[00:10] <wallyworld> alexisb: free now if you are
[00:11] <wallyworld> anastasiamac: looks like you need to pull juju/testing etc to get latest versions
[00:12] <alexisb> wallyworld, ok, brt
[00:12] <anastasiamac> this elements that the build contains are in charm.v4
[00:13] <anastasiamac> but it looks like there is a conflict with gopkg.in/charm.v4 vs my github.com/juju/charm.v4?... have no idea how to resolve it
[00:13] <anastasiamac> wallyworld: ^^
[00:13] <anastasiamac> i'll try pulling testing though I cannot c if/how it's related..
[00:13] <wallyworld> anastasiamac: the error indicates that juju/testing is out of date
[00:14] <anastasiamac> k. thnx ;)
[00:20] <anastasiamac> wallyworld: pulled testing but the error for charm.v4 is the same..
[00:25] <katco> wallyworld: SHAM-WOW! http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/658/
[00:42] <thumper> wallyworld: https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1403689
[00:42] <mup> Bug #1403689: Server should store tools of unknown or unsupported series <upgrade-juju> <upload-tools> <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1403689>
[01:06] <wallyworld> thumper: just finished meeting, thanks, will look
[01:06] <thumper> np
[01:44] <wwitzel3> ericsnow: ping, in moonstone
[02:02] <thumper> ok, I'm turning distractions off and going to try to focus for an hour
[02:02] <thumper> now if only the kids comply...
[02:03]  * thumper switches music from random to heavy mix
[02:07] <mattyw> thumper, morning - mind if this kid distracts you for a moment?
[02:07]  * thumper looks at mattyw
[02:08] <mattyw> thumper, I made this small change in juju/utils the other day  -  I'm not sure if it belong there - but as it was small I thought - better to ask forgiveness than permission - what do you think? http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/634/
[02:09] <thumper> seems reasonable
[02:13] <mattyw> thumper, do I $$merge$$ utils?
[02:13] <thumper> I don't remember
[02:13] <thumper> try it and if the bot doesn't say anything
[02:13] <thumper> manually do it
[02:14] <mattyw> thumper, thanks for the help - you can go back to <whatever it was you were doing>
[02:19] <mattyw> thumper, me again - I don't have permission, can you hit merge for me?
[02:19] <thumper> done
[02:19] <mattyw> thanks very much
[02:59] <jog> wallyworld, around?
[03:00] <wallyworld> jog: in a meeting, can be with you soon
[03:01] <jog> I'm considering setting bug 1396099 as a blocker on master, please see my latest comment when you're available
[03:01] <mup> Bug #1396099: AWS/Joyent/manual/maas: juju deploy error "connection is shut down" <api> <ci> <deploy> <ec2-provider> <joyent-provider> <manual-provider> <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1396099>
[03:05] <wwitzel3> so in cloud-init.log I see some log lines that read writing /home/ubuntu/.ssh/authorized_keys .. but when I look in the file, the keys don't match my jenv. Any pointers on where to start poking around?
[03:05] <jw4> jog: can I send you some clickbait, or interesting wired articles or anything?
[03:06] <jw4> jog: just trying to buy some time before CI gets blocked
[03:06] <jog> heh heh
[03:08] <katco> davecheney: hey just reviewing some of your comments
[03:09] <katco> davecheney: to maybe save you a bit of time: as this is refactoring, i don't want to change any existing code i don't have to touch
[03:09] <katco> davecheney: e.g.: eitherState (which i agree is a little strange)
[03:09] <davecheney> katco: if you don't clean it up now
[03:09] <davecheney> then when ?
[03:10] <davecheney> refactoring sounds like the perfect time to clean house
[03:10] <katco> davecheney: i will be making changes to this area for awhile longer
[03:10] <katco> davecheney: this piece is just so i can land some leadership functional tests
[03:11] <katco> davecheney: once that's done, i will be circling back and giving this package some more TLC :)
[03:12] <davecheney> sgtm
[03:12] <katco> davecheney: i do appreciate your thoughtful reviews
[03:12] <katco> davecheney: in fact, if you want to call anything out, but not open it as an issue, i'd love that so i can reference it
[03:29] <mattyw> folks, the latest version of juju/utils contains a call to errors.UserNotFound https://github.com/juju/utils/blob/master/file_unix.go. But that call doesn't exist
[03:30] <mattyw> I think we should just return err here - what does everyone else think
[03:40] <menn0> wallyworld, jog: I wonder if that's the new certupdater work. it can lead to the API server being restarted soon after the machine agent starts up.
[03:41] <jw4> mattyw: is errors.UserNotFound in a later version of juju/utils?
[03:41] <jw4> mattyw: can we just update
[03:41] <menn0> s/work/worker/
[03:41] <jw4> mattyw: otherwise I'm in favor of just returning err too
[03:43] <menn0> wallyworld, jog: that issue has certainly been happening a lot in CI lately
[03:44] <jog> yup, it's been a big problem for us lately
[03:46] <mattyw> jw4, is in the latest version
[03:47] <mattyw> jw4, you mean the latest version of juju/errors?
[03:48] <mattyw> jw4, ah yes, it's in the latest version of juju errors - I thought I'd tried that, but apprently not
[03:50] <jw4> mattyw: I meant the latest version of juju/utils because I misunderstood you - but I'm glad you found it anyway :D
[03:52] <ericsnow> davecheney: FYI, I've added a set.Ints (http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/659/) and updated the PortSet patch to use it (http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/617/)
[03:52] <ericsnow> davecheney: thanks for the nudge
[03:52] <wwitzel3> ericsnow: nothing yet on why authorized_keys doesn't contain our keys
[03:52] <ericsnow> wwitzel3: :(
[03:52] <wwitzel3> ericsnow: I did take care of the autoDelete though
[03:53] <ericsnow> wwitzel3: sweet
[03:53] <ericsnow> wwitzel3: I'm pretty sure once the connection issue is resolved we'll be bootstrapping on GCE!!!
[03:54] <wwitzel3> ericsnow: yeah, seems that way .. I'm going to login manually while the attempting to connect loops are running and add the key to authorized_keys and see if that fixes it
[03:55] <ericsnow> wwitzel3: sneaky :)
[03:55] <davecheney> ericsnow: ta
[03:55] <ericsnow> davecheney: it was easier than expected :)
[03:55] <wwitzel3> ericsnow: yeah, the cloud-init.log file looks good, it appears to update the auth_keys file for both ubuntu and root
[03:56] <wwitzel3> ericsnow: but our keys never end up in there :(
[03:56] <ericsnow> wwitzel3: ?!?
[03:58] <ericsnow> wwitzel3: where does cloud-init get the stuff it's supposed to add?
[03:58] <wwitzel3> ericsnow: so far, no luck, I've added the keys, but the Attempting to connect is still just hanging.
[03:58] <wwitzel3> ericsnow: it is from the jenv for gce
[03:58] <davecheney> thumper: i was trying to sort out my xmas leave
[03:58] <davecheney> https://sites.google.com/a/canonical.com/operations/people-and-culture/dashboard
[03:59] <davecheney> this page is now 404
[03:59] <ericsnow> wwitzel3: oh, right
[03:59] <davecheney> where is the calendar that tells us what days we need to claim ?
[03:59] <thumper> hr somehwere
[03:59] <thumper> waigani: do you have that link somewhere?
[03:59] <thumper> waigani: you had it the other day
[03:59] <ericsnow> wwitzel3: what feeds that data to cloud-init on the new instance?
[03:59] <thumper> waigani: the christmas leave page
[04:00] <ericsnow> wwitzel3: I have a feeling it's that metadata :(
[04:00] <wwitzel3> ericsnow: error: Could not load host key: /etc/ssh/ssh_host_ed25519_key
[04:00] <waigani> thumper: https://sites.google.com/a/canonical.com/operations/people-and-culture/general?pli=1
[04:01] <thumper> davecheney: ^^^
[04:01] <thumper> waigani: ta
[04:02] <wwitzel3> ericsnow: it looks like we are connecting successfully, but that error is resulting in a disconnect
[04:03] <ericsnow> wwitzel3: ah
[04:03] <wwitzel3> ericsnow: the keys still aren't getting populated correct, but that error is also preventing us from connecting
[04:04] <wwitzel3> ericsnow: I'm going to keep swing my bat around in this china shop for a while, I'll let you know what i come up with him the morning
[04:04] <dimitern> ericsnow, hey
[04:04] <ericsnow> wwitzel3: k
[04:04] <ericsnow> dimitern: hey
[04:04] <wallyworld> menn0: jog: sorry, just finished meeting
[04:04] <dimitern> ericsnow, can you have a quick look at this please? http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/656/
[04:05] <ericsnow> dimitern: sure
[04:05] <jog> wallyworld, just trying to decide what to do about bug 1396099
[04:05] <wallyworld> when juju starts, it will restart the state server api to accommodate newly known machine addresses
[04:05] <mup> Bug #1396099: AWS/Joyent/manual/maas: juju deploy error "connection is shut down" <api> <ci> <deploy> <ec2-provider> <joyent-provider> <manual-provider> <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1396099>
[04:05] <dimitern> ericsnow, thanks
[04:06] <wallyworld> jog: if the CI scripts immediately connect to the state server api, they could come undone as the state server api will be restarted very shortly after the state server comes up
[04:06] <wallyworld> this restart is necessary to accommodate a new server certicicate being generated
[04:07] <wallyworld> the certificate regeneration is needed to allow https connections over the state server IP addresses
[04:08] <wallyworld> jog: is it plausible to add a small delay to the CI script?
[04:08] <ericsnow> wallyworld: how long does it go before restarting after coming up?
[04:08] <jog> wallyworld, yeah that sounds like what's happening, but if we add a sleep to the test script, customer who are also scripting will experience intermittent connection failures.
[04:08] <bodie_> could use a quick review on https://github.com/juju/charm/pull/81 if anyone has a few moments :)
[04:08] <wallyworld> ericsnow: as soon as it learns about the state server machine addresses, not sure of the exact time
[04:08]  * jog is actually testing a sleep now
[04:08] <bodie_> a worthy Actions schema format
[04:08] <dimitern> wallyworld, can't we use the upgrade blocker or something to block deployments until api server cert is regenerated?
[04:09] <wallyworld> dimitern: it's a change listener, the addresses could change anytime
[04:09] <davecheney> thumper: ta
[04:09] <dimitern> wallyworld, hmm right
[04:09] <wallyworld> dimitern: so before this, any htths connection over the state server ip address would fail
[04:09] <ericsnow> wallyworld: I've see issues with the API client used in backups commands being good for only one request (and then the connection shows up as disconnected), so perhaps that's related
[04:10] <ericsnow> wallyworld: ah
[04:10] <wallyworld> ericsnow: the backup client, if run after the state server has fully come up, will not be affected by this
[04:11] <ericsnow> wallyworld: yeah, that's what I gathered from what you just said :)
[04:11] <wallyworld> well, by fail, i mean certificate verification would fail
[04:13] <ericsnow> dimitern: LGTM
[04:13] <dimitern> ericsnow, cheers
[04:14] <dimitern> wallyworld, well, the api client could be made more robust I guess
[04:15] <dimitern> wallyworld, I mean since this happens at every bootstrap the initial connection (or say first 3 attempts) might fail, but shouldn't be logged as errors
[04:16] <dimitern> wallyworld, and the sleep could be in there, rather than in the ci script
[04:24] <jw4> ericsnow: thanks for that clarification - copied:= *meta... looked like a pointer assignment to me
[04:26] <wallyworld> dimitern: the issue is that if it is really quick, a client might grab a connection which is then lost with the restart. we could look at delaying the state server start until after the first address change
[04:26] <dimitern> wallyworld, that second part sgtm
[04:26] <wallyworld> i'll raise a bug
[04:30] <ericsnow> jw4: yep, * != &, but our brains don't handle that so well sometimes :)
[04:34] <anastasiamac> ericsnow: this should be on a t-shirt :D
[04:35] <jw4> ericsnow: :-p
[04:35] <jw4> ericsnow: yours did
[04:36] <ericsnow> jw4: sure, this time... :)
[04:36] <jw4> hehe
[05:07] <wallyworld> jam1: hi, i see you guys did some work on the status spec. i made a couple of v1 compatibility comments near the top. i also see you didn't like "broken", which is to blocked as busy is to waiting
[05:08] <jam1> wallyworld: so it isn't entirely, we did discuss it a bit
[05:08] <jam1> specifically, Broken is actually "come look and fix something with *me*"
[05:08] <jam1> which is what we had as broken
[05:08] <wallyworld> yes
[05:08] <wallyworld> just like busy, which is waiting on me
[05:08] <jam1> (yes, it means you need to relate me to something else, but that distinction vs you need to fix my config isn't very compelling)
[05:08] <jam1> wallyworld: so still, not exactly
[05:09] <jam1> sorry, I had a typo
[05:09] <wallyworld> not just my config, could also be disk spac eetc
[05:09] <jam1> *blocked* is come look at me
[05:09] <wallyworld> doesn't matter, we can go with what's there
[05:09] <wallyworld> i see there's a lot of extra unit states
[05:11] <jam1> wallyworld: so I would like you to understand how we put the rationale together, I realize in the scale of things the specifics aren't huge, but there was a fair discussion and I was happy with how the mapping worked out.
[05:11] <wallyworld> i think i disagree that error shouldn't be on agent-state, as just because a hook fails, doesn't mean that the software isn't running, but you guys would have discussed that
[05:11] <jam1> wallyworld: so one guiding thing there is that we want to move to where we have 1 Juju agent for the machine and all its units
[05:11] <jam1> not 1 unit-agent per unit
[05:12] <wallyworld> yes, that's true
[05:12] <jam1> wallyworld: so you do need a place to say "this unit failed its hook", without saying that all units are dead
[05:12] <wallyworld> so error is best done on unit then
[05:12] <wallyworld> fair point
[05:12] <jam1> wallyworld: IIRC there is *also* error on the agent for compat
[05:12] <jam1> and then we drop that in favor of "failed"
[05:12] <jam1> when the agent itself is unresponsive
[05:12] <wallyworld> yes
[05:13] <wallyworld> so you agree with my v1 compat comments?
[05:13] <wallyworld> s/do/do
[05:13] <wallyworld> s/so/do
[05:13] <jam1> I haven't gotten to them yet, just chatting with you here
[05:13] <wallyworld> sure, sorry
[05:14] <jam1> wallyworld: np. So Mark feels strongly that we can drop pending, because nobody is actually depending on it, but we'll keep Started and Error
[05:14] <jam1> We don't need Installed, because nothing stayed there very long
[05:14] <jam1> Down is a fair point, though
[05:14] <wallyworld> i figured that would be the case for Installed, just wanted to be 10000% sure
[05:15] <wallyworld> i wasn't sure if we wanted to be really anal about keeping 100% compat
[05:15] <wallyworld> i think we need to keep Stopped also
[05:15] <wallyworld> s/need/should
[05:16] <wallyworld> as we don't know who has scripts that depend on it
[05:16] <jam1> wallyworld: this is agent-state stopped, right? Are we actually able to depend on it? We can run it by fwereade or someone, but I thought Stopped only existed as long as the Database hadn't cleaned up that unit yet
[05:17] <jam1> We may need to keep it for the same purpose, though.
[05:17] <wallyworld> jam1: yes, the current agent-state Stopped
[05:17] <wallyworld> we might be able to safely drop it, as for Installed, just want to be sure
[05:49] <bodie_> I'd really like to land this so TheMue can land the changes in master tomorrow: https://github.com/juju/charm/pull/81
[05:49] <bodie_> it's a pretty simple change which tweaks the way Charm parses actions schemas from yaml
[05:50] <wwitzel3> so when cloud-init writes the authroized_keys file, where does it get the information it writes in to there from?
[05:51] <bodie_> s/tomorrow/today
[05:52] <bodie_> (but a huge usability improvement from the charm author's perspective)
[05:52] <dimitern> bodie_, looking
[05:53] <jog> wallyworld, looks like something with 24c1b80d is affecting upgrades across multiple substrates
[05:53] <bodie_> dimitern, thanks!
[05:53] <wallyworld> let me look at what the rev is
[05:54] <wallyworld> jog: this PR https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/1291 ?
[05:56] <jog> wallyworld, yes
[05:56] <wallyworld> i have no knowledge of that work, what do the CI logs say is the problem?
[06:01] <jog> wallyworld, joyent, aws, hp, azure, maas, KVM, ... all timing out after waiting 10 minutes for juju status after the upgrade... so at a minimum the time for an upgrade to complete has increased
[06:02] <wallyworld> wouldn't surprise me if it's more than that, more likely to be a breakage, the juju state server upgrade and machine log would be helpful
[06:03] <wwitzel3> so in the cloud-init log I see 014-12-18 05:51:56,497 - util.py[DEBUG]: Writing to /home/ubuntu/.ssh/authorized_keys - wb: [384] 1416 bytes
[06:03] <wwitzel3> which implies that it is writing the keys, but when I look at that file, there are only the keys from the provider
[06:03] <wwitzel3> I wonder if Google is overwriting them after we write them ..
[06:04] <wallyworld> could be, i know nothing about gce
[06:06] <wwitzel3> hrmm actually I think maybe I am just not writing them to the proper place in the metadata
[06:06] <jog> wallyworld, I can attach log or if you want to look sooner one instance is under the artifacts here:  http://juju-ci.vapour.ws:8080/job/aws-upgrade-precise-amd64/2176/
[06:06] <wwitzel3> but then what is cloud-init writing? .. hrmm
[06:07] <wallyworld> jog: looking
[06:10] <jog> wallyworld, this looks like the same issue menn0 fixed yesterday " login blocked because upgrade is in progress"
[06:11] <wallyworld> i wasn't aware of that fix - do the logs look the same or similar?
[06:13] <wallyworld> i can see a test fix
[06:15] <wallyworld> the logs sure do have a lot of terminated connections
[06:15] <jam1> fwereade: ping for where you're at with active/goal
[06:16] <dimitern> bodie_, reviewed
[06:16] <bodie_> dimitern, thanks, have been following along making a few changes :)
[06:16] <bodie_> I really ought to call it a day though
[06:17] <bodie_> I think most of this should be very straightforward -- can you sync up with TheMue?  I have to get up early to travel in the morning
[06:17] <bodie_> he offered to pick it up since I'm leaving town
[06:17] <bodie_> or... expect him to ping you back in there
[06:17] <jog> wallyworld, this was yesterdays fix https://github.com/mjs/juju/commit/f22f2f07ace804fbce81b66bfe938439a6878a29
[06:17] <bodie_> or something which works well and makes everyone happy ;)
[06:17] <dimitern> bodie_, ok, feel free to land this, but I'd like you to address the suggestions in a follow-up if you don't mind?
[06:19] <dimitern> bodie_, I will sync up with TheMue
[06:20] <wallyworld> jog: could be related, but doesn't seem like it. i can't see off hand from the logs what the issue is. more detailed investigation is required
[06:20] <wallyworld> are these upgrade failures intermittent?
[06:21] <dimitern> wallyworld, I might be able to help there, let me have a look at the logs
[06:21] <wallyworld> ty :-)
[06:24] <jog> wallyworld, dimitern nearly all substrates started failing upgrade tests with pull 1291... so not intermittent, rather very consistent
[06:25] <dimitern> jog, why is the job destroying the environment? http://juju-ci.vapour.ws:8080/job/aws-upgrade-precise-amd64/2175/console after upgrade
[06:25]  * wallyworld bbiab
[06:26] <dimitern> jog, this is seems fishy 2014-12-18 03:27:58 INFO juju.provider.common destroy.go:15 destroying environment "aws-upgrade-precise-amd64"
[06:26] <jog> it waits 10 minutes checking 'juju status' and then gives up and destroys the environment, so the resources are available for the next test
[06:26] <dimitern> jog, ah, ok
[06:28] <jog> dimitern, wallyworld, I think we should block on this, it might be harder to figure out if addition code lands
[06:36] <bodie_> dimitern, that sounds perfect, much appreciated!
[06:39] <dimitern> jog, looking at the logs so far it seems the upgrade was completed on machine-0, but the upgrade block wasn't lifted
[06:43] <jam1> fwereade: poke when you're awake
[06:44] <wwitzel3> man, it got late. We are so close to getting GCE to bootstrap.
[06:46] <dimitern> wwitzel3, \o/
[06:46] <bodie_> dimitern, I'm going to go ahead and ship the charm fix, and open a new PR with the requested changes referenced.  I also have a branch for updating tests on master to reflect this stuff
[06:48] <dimitern> bodie_, sweet, thanks
[06:54] <dimitern> jog, this is the issue: cannot set agent version for machine 0: not found or dead
[06:54] <dimitern> jog, and machine-0 is obviously alive and well, so something around env-uuid changes in state recently does not work properly
[06:55] <bodie_> fwiw, the PR to fix the charm actions parsing in juju master is http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/661/ if anyone fancies having a look
[06:55] <jog> dimitern, I opened bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1403738
[06:55] <mup> Bug #1403738: upgrade tests fail on multiple substrates with revision 24c1b80d <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1403738>
[07:07] <jog> dimitern, do you need anything else from me? If not my day is long over.
[07:07] <dimitern> jog, can you re-run one of the failing jobs, but using logging-config: <root>=TRACE in envs.yaml ?
[07:08] <dimitern> jog, with <root>=INFO we're practically loosing all context during the upgrade - all upgrade jobs should run with at least logging-config: <root>=DEBUG
[07:09] <jog> ok
[07:09] <jam1> wallyworld: fwereade: we feel pretty good about where the status spec is at (you should have gotten an email). So comments are welcome.
[07:10] <wallyworld> jam1: ty, will look
[07:15] <jam1> wallyworld: are you around at all during the break?
[07:15] <jam1> I feel like it might be good to have a hangout to discuss finer points, but I know everyone is officially not-working
[07:17] <wallyworld> jam1: sure, i can be available, what time is the break?
[07:18] <jam1> wallyworld: I mean Holiday break
[07:18] <jam1> eg, next week
[07:18] <wallyworld> jam1: oh, right :-) that will be fine too
[07:19] <wallyworld> maybe one evening my time, afternoon your time, which will be midday for william
[07:19] <jam1> wallyworld: k, I know I'm out of town from 25-1st, but I'll have Monday/Tues that I'm just relaxing around the house
[07:19] <wallyworld> ok, maybe aim for monday depending on william's availability?
[07:22] <wallyworld> fwereade: you free for a catchup in 10?
[07:38] <dimitern> jog, updated the bug
[08:36] <wallyworld> jam1: storage phase 1 spec has openstack cinder volumes in scope, yet the in scope providers are listed as maas, local, aws. i thought openstack was out of scope for phase 1
[08:42] <wallyworld> jam1: you may have missed my message when your connection bounced
[08:42] <wallyworld> storage phase 1 spec has openstack cinder volumes in scope, yet the in scope providers are listed as maas, local, aws. i thought openstack was out of scope for phase 1
[09:04] <jam1> wallyworld: thanks for the heads up, the network here likes to stay up for approximately 2min before needing to be reset…
[09:04] <jam1> I did try to flag that with a comment, can you make sure there is a note if mine didn't go through ?
[09:04] <wallyworld> sure, will do, just about to be called for dinner, will do it straight after
[09:26] <TheMue> morning
[09:32] <voidspace> TheMue: o/
[09:48] <voidspace> dimitern: ping
[09:52] <dimitern> voidspace, pong
[09:54] <voidspace> dimitern: hey, hi
[09:54] <voidspace> dimitern: davecheney suggests that network.SubnetInfo should use net.IP for the AllocatableIPLow and High
[09:55] <voidspace> dimitern: what do you think?
[09:55] <dimitern> voidspace, sgtm
[09:55] <voidspace> dimitern: we have to convert back to strings where we *use them*
[09:55] <voidspace> dimitern: in state and on the wire
[09:55] <voidspace> dimitern: and it doesn't save us validation as constructing an IP doesn't return an error (you have to check for a nil value)
[09:56] <voidspace> so I'm not sure what it buys, beyond more conversions
[09:58] <voidspace> dimitern: TheMue: little girl just woken up - neighbour has agreed to babysit (wife out), but I have to set that up
[09:58] <voidspace> dimitern: TheMue: will take a few minutes, so will be late to standup again... sorry
[09:59] <TheMue> voi
[09:59] <TheMue> voidspace: ok
[10:05] <rogpeppe> is a unit's public-address also supposed to be accessible from within an environment?
[10:05] <rogpeppe> dimitern: ^
[10:07] <voidspace> TheMue: dimitern: babysitter here, omw
[10:07] <dimitern> rogpeppe, you mean like in ec2 automatic public ips ?
[10:07] <rogpeppe> the question is really: is it reasonable to have a single address for a service endpoint that works both within the environment (from unit to unit) and from outside it?
[10:07] <dimitern> rogpeppe, short answer - it depends
[10:08] <rogpeppe> dimitern: i mean the public-address as reported by the unit-get public-address charm tool
[10:08] <dimitern> rogpeppe, in joyent for example you can, but not in ec2 or openstack (depends on how floating ips are configured)
[10:09] <rogpeppe> dimitern: i thought it worked ok in ec2 as the public-address resolves correctly whether you're inside or outside the cloud
[10:09] <voidspace> TheMue: dimitern: struggling to join...
[10:09] <rogpeppe> dimitern: but perhaps i'm misremembering?
[10:09] <voidspace> "Trying to join the call. Please wait..."
[10:10] <rogpeppe> dimitern: i'm more concerned with the intra-environment behaviour here
[10:10] <dimitern> rogpeppe, you're talking about different things
[10:10] <rogpeppe> dimitern: as i already know that public-address might not be accessible from outside the env - that's an issue we always need to deal with
[10:10] <dimitern> rogpeppe, the ec2 instance dns name resolves to internal ip in ec2 or to the public ip outside
[10:11] <rogpeppe> dimitern: and that's what we report for public-address, right?
[10:11] <rogpeppe> dimitern: or has that changed?
[10:12] <rogpeppe> perhaps i should phrase the question like this: can i be sure that a unit can connect to another unit's public-address as well as its private-address?
[10:13] <rogpeppe> voidspace, dimitern: FWIW, I'm +1 on using net.IP when we know we've got IP addresses
[10:14] <rogpeppe> voidspace: and net.ParseIP does validate, even though it doesn't return an explicit error
[10:16] <dimitern> rogpeppe, it depends on the provider
[10:17] <rogpeppe> dimitern: hmm, that's not great
[10:18] <dimitern> rogpeppe, in standup now, i'll get back to you in a bit
[10:19] <rogpeppe> dimitern: ta
[10:45] <rogpeppe> another network-related question: is it possible for a unit to find out the public address of another unit that it's related to?
[10:45] <rogpeppe> dimitern, fwereade: ^
[10:46] <dimitern> rogpeppe, so you can rely on a split horizon dns name to work internally and externally in ec2 and openstack (if so configured)
[10:47] <dimitern> rogpeppe, not automatically - via relation settings
[10:47] <rogpeppe> dimitern: and public-address will always return a split-horizon dns name
[10:47] <rogpeppe> ?
[10:47] <dimitern> rogpeppe, I wouldn't say always
[10:47] <rogpeppe> dimitern: ok, so i can't rely on this at all then?
[10:48] <dimitern> rogpeppe, in juju status - most likely, as unit.PublicAddress - if set by the provider (IIRC some providers were explicitly changed to either return dns name or ip for various reasons)
[10:49] <rogpeppe> dimitern: my situation is that i have a web service that returns some data to the client which includes the address of another service for the client to connect to.
[10:49] <rogpeppe> dimitern: i'd like that client to work correctly whether it's inside the environment or outside it
[10:49] <dimitern> rogpeppe, right
[10:49] <rogpeppe> dimitern: it currently looks like that's not possible without returning more than one address
[10:50] <dimitern> rogpeppe, yes
[10:50] <rogpeppe> dimitern: and that a standard http relation isn't sufficient to find out the public address
[10:50] <dimitern> rogpeppe, hopefully this will change as more networking model stuff lands
[10:50] <rogpeppe> dimitern: i'm guessing that it will only change if this specific requirement is on the roadmap
[10:51] <dimitern> rogpeppe, alternatively, you can use custom networking config inside the charm
[10:51] <rogpeppe> dimitern: how would that work?
[10:52] <dimitern> rogpeppe, so your webservice charm returns this info via relation settings?
[10:52] <rogpeppe> dimitern: no, via http
[10:53] <dimitern> rogpeppe, ok, so the webservice is not running inside a charm?
[10:53] <rogpeppe> dimitern: it's part of the http API that it exposes
[10:53] <rogpeppe> dimitern: yes, it is running inside a charm
[10:53] <rogpeppe> dimitern: all the services here are running as charms, possibly excluding the client
[10:53] <dimitern> rogpeppe, and you want to return a single hostname/ip that's usable both internally and externally?
[10:54] <rogpeppe> dimitern: ideally, yes
[10:55] <dimitern> rogpeppe, so first, the only way I can think of is to use a split horizon dns name
[10:55] <rogpeppe> dimitern: but i can't rely on that, right?
[10:55] <dimitern> rogpeppe, and it needs to be supported either by the cloud itself (like ec2) or by another exposed service running a dns server
[10:57] <dimitern> rogpeppe, not right now, because the addresses we store in state are not in a single place
[10:58] <dimitern> rogpeppe, that's why it's unreliable - unit.PublicAddress() returns whatever its assigned machine's Addresses() method returns
[10:58] <rogpeppe> dimitern: an arbitrary selection, presumably?
[10:59] <rogpeppe> dimitern: because Addresses can return many addresses
[10:59] <rogpeppe> dimitern: i think i'll just go with returning several addresses to the client and relying on them to try all of them
[11:00] <dimitern> rogpeppe, nope
[11:00] <rogpeppe> dimitern: anything else i think is being unreasonably optimistic/platform-dependent
[11:00] <dimitern> rogpeppe, since a recent change I made all addresses are consistently ordered - public ips before hostnames, then cloud-local, etc.
[11:01] <rogpeppe> dimitern: ok, so it's still an arbitrary selection but at least a stable choice, then?
[11:01] <dimitern> rogpeppe, however the uncertainty still exists, as those addresses are merged from the instance addresses (coming from the provider) and machine ones (as discovered by the net package)
[11:01] <dimitern> rogpeppe, it is stable yes
[11:01] <rogpeppe> dimitern: hmm, so that means that IP addresses are always chosen over host names?
[11:02] <rogpeppe> dimitern: so you'll never get a split-horizon DNS name?
[11:03] <dimitern> rogpeppe, and provider addresses always shadow machine ones - so if the provider (e.g. like maas) adds dns names in addition to ips in response of calling instance.Addresses() - you'll get those, then machine addrs in a single list, ordered
[11:03] <dimitern> rogpeppe, effectively, since that change it's even less likely (can only happen if there are only hostnames)
[11:04] <rogpeppe> dimitern: so i'm right that it'll never return a DNS name when an IP address is available?
[11:04] <rogpeppe> dimitern: "it" == "unit-get public-address"
[11:04] <dimitern> rogpeppe, but this can change - preferring ips over hostnames was a requirement for api endpoints, but for intra-environment communication can be different
[11:05] <rogpeppe> dimitern: in this case, this is about from-the-outside access to the environment
[11:06] <dimitern> rogpeppe, it depends what ip - if it's public, yes - it will always come before any hostnames; if cloud-local - hostnames come first
[11:06] <rogpeppe> dimitern: aren't ip addresses less stable than dns names?
[11:07] <dimitern> rogpeppe, in maas'es case for example we have "vm0.maas" "<IP_ADDRESS>" and "<IP_ADDRESS>" - hostname will be chosen
[11:07] <dimitern> rogpeppe, ips are absolute (much more so at least than hostnames that can resolve to anything)
[11:07] <rogpeppe> dimitern: yeah, but ip addresses can be on short-term lease
[11:08] <rogpeppe> dimitern: in this case i need a stable address that can be used to contact a service
[11:08] <dimitern> rogpeppe, that's rarely an issue
[11:08] <dimitern> rogpeppe, I agree
[11:08] <dimitern> rogpeppe, and can suggest raising a bug about it :)
[11:09] <rogpeppe> dimitern: ok
[11:09] <dimitern> rogpeppe, i.e. have a way to get a hostname if possible for public-address
[11:10] <rogpeppe> dimitern: it would be quite nice if a unit was able to get the public address of a related unit as well as its priviate address too
[11:11] <dimitern> rogpeppe, it still can - if the remote unit sets its address into the relation settings
[11:12] <dimitern> rogpeppe, also, there might not be a public address to get
[11:12] <rogpeppe> dimitern: also, this means that "unit-get public-address" in ec2 will never return an address that is reachable from within the environment, right?
[11:12] <dimitern> rogpeppe, e.g. in maas all ips are cloud-local
[11:13] <rogpeppe> dimitern: that's true. i'm thinking that public-address is provided by default (when available) along with private-address
[11:14] <dimitern> rogpeppe, that's like this since several months now actually - after DNSName got dropped from Environ
[11:14] <rogpeppe> dimitern: just to be clear, there's currently no way to obtain the ec2 split-horizon DNS name within juju, right?
[11:14] <dimitern> rogpeppe, ec2 now only reports ips (public and private)
[11:15] <dimitern> rogpeppe, there are lots of ways :) - fetching a metadata url from the charm for example
[11:15] <dimitern> rogpeppe, but not a "usual" way
[11:16] <rogpeppe> dimitern: yeah, i don't want to write ec2-specific code in my charm
[11:16] <rogpeppe> dimitern: that kinda loses the point of juju
[11:16] <dimitern> rogpeppe, i can't recall what was the reasoning behind removing DNSName() from Environ
[11:17] <dimitern> rogpeppe, true, i'm not suggesting it seriously
[11:17] <rogpeppe> dimitern: i guess one way forward would be to expose a way to get all a unit's addresses from a unit, (and possibly from a related unit)
[11:20] <dimitern> rogpeppe, yeah - a client api call "get all unit addresses"
[11:21] <rogpeppe> dimitern: i'm actually thinking of: unit-get addresses
[11:21] <dimitern> rogpeppe, which then can be called from a hook tool that does that
[11:21] <rogpeppe> dimitern: and relation-get addresses
[11:22] <dimitern> rogpeppe, the address-get hook tool that's on the roadmap for 15.04 will do this
[11:22] <rogpeppe> dimitern: the client side is another question - the only way to get a unit's address is through status currently, right?
[11:22] <dimitern> rogpeppe, by default it will return a single address; you can specify -r <rel-id>  -maybe --all as well
[11:23] <rogpeppe> dimitern: ah, replacing unit-get ?
[11:23] <dimitern> rogpeppe, yep - unit-get will only live for backwards compatibility but will get dropped and aliased to something else in the mean time (most likely address-get)
[11:50] <fwereade> mm, heston blumenthal mass-produces a pretty decent christmas cake
[12:05] <rogpeppe> fwereade: :)
[12:05]  * rogpeppe has mince pies downstairs
[12:07] <rogpeppe> dimitern: as it turns out the public IP address also works ok internally in ec2
[12:08] <dimitern> rogpeppe, nice! :)
[12:14] <jam2> fwereade: sounds yummy. feeling better today ?
[12:15] <fwereade> jam2, yeah, more-or-less with it again
[12:29] <voidspace> dimitern: fancy giving my PR another quick look-over (including string to net.IP change)
[12:29] <voidspace> dimitern: http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/644/
[12:30] <dimitern> voidspace, sure thing
[12:35] <dimitern> voidspace, great, just 1 typo
[12:35] <dimitern> well, not a typo - more like an omission
[12:36] <voidspace> dimitern: ok, cool - thanks
[12:44] <voidspace> dimitern: hmmm... looks like the change to SubnetInfo to use net.IP instead of string is causing a panic
[12:45] <voidspace> dimitern: ... Panic: runtime error: hash of unhashable type network.SubnetInfo (PC=0x414676)
[12:45] <voidspace>
[12:45] <voidspace> dimitern: investigating
[12:45] <voidspace> dimitern: hah, jc.SameContents is panicking trying to compare
[12:46] <dimitern> voidspace, use jc.DeepEquals instead?
[12:47] <voidspace> dimitern: I presume SameContents is being used to not be order dependent
[12:47] <voidspace> dimitern: (this is a pre-existing test)
[12:47] <voidspace> dimitern: I'll try it though
[12:47] <voidspace> it works
[12:47] <voidspace> ShipIt!
[12:53] <dimitern> voidspace, it's used for maps (or was it slices?) but works for gcc-go (ppc) and golang-go
[12:54] <dimitern> voidspace, \o/
[14:23] <wwitzel3> ericsnow: bug #1403662 lgtm, so I'm going prepare the commit to backout the hack we have working around it
[14:24] <wwitzel3> ericsnow: also I still didn't get the ssh issue solved .. even with explictly adding the sshKeys to the GCE metadata.
[14:24] <wwitzel3> ericsnow: it is like there is a step we are missing
[14:51] <wwitzel3> ericsnow: ok, so I have the keys being properly uploaded to GCE, now I'm just trying to resolve this "error: Could not load host key: /etc/ssh/ssh_host_ed25519_key"
[14:51] <wwitzel3> ericsnow: that is the error the juju ssh client keeps disconnecting on
[14:52] <LinstatSDR> Good morning all.
[14:55] <wwitzel3> ericsnow: looks like we are running in to this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/cloud-init/+bug/1382118
[14:55] <mup> Bug #1382118: Cloud-init doesn't support SSH ed25519 keys <cloud-init:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1382118>
[15:13] <ericsnow> wwitzel3: looks like you're on to something
[15:15] <natefinch> well that looks less than promising
[15:20] <ericsnow> natefinch: it does mean we are nearly done with bootstrapping (I think)
[15:21] <natefinch> ericsnow: awesome.  Any idea if that bug is going to be a major problem for you guys?
[15:22] <ericsnow> natefinch: I imagine so but wwitzel3 may have a better idea of it
[15:28] <wwitzel3> natefinch:I don't know much about cloud-init .. can we send it some a set of custom commands to run for us?
[15:29] <wwitzel3> natefinch: we either need the sshd_config on the instance to remove the line expecting ed25519 keys or we need to issue a ssh-keygen to create the expected key file.
[15:39] <natefinch> man I wish we used github for releases.... trying to figure out what code is in what release in launchpad is a huge pain
[15:40] <perrito666> natefinch: tags dont have the same name as releases in lp?
[15:41] <natefinch> perrito666: ha, I missed we had tags on juju... it's a separate tab in the list of branches.  Thanks for that.
[16:29] <ericsnow> fwereade: PTAL: http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/663/
[16:30] <ericsnow> fwereade: that drops the AZ from unit-get and adds it as an env variable
[16:30] <ericsnow> fwereade: let me know if that's what you had in mind
[16:34] <fwereade> ericsnow, catching up wit hthe related code: I'm wondering (1) why we set context.availabilityZone in factory.updateContext, especially given the doc comment on updateContext and (2) why there aren't any tests for it in factory_test.go?
[16:36] <ericsnow> fwereade: I'll take a look
[16:38] <ericsnow> fwereade: FWIW, a lot of what I did for availability zones was following the precedent of what I considered to be the similar fields
[16:40] <fwereade> ericsnow, hmm, what are the untested factory/context bits? I made an effort to fix them -- not saying I *did* catch them all, but I'd like to know so I can fix them ;)
[16:42] <ericsnow> fwereade: oh, I probably just missed addin the AZ-related tests
[16:42] <ericsnow> fwereade: if I see something missing I'll let you know :)
[16:42] <katco> gah, trunk is currently closed?
[16:42] <katco> the room's title lies!
[16:42] <fwereade> ericsnow, I don't want to claim particular superiority of the existing code, though: in particular all the tests that directly construct a *HookContext are Bad Tests, and they're only like that because I was [focused on delivering business value elsewhere|too damn lazy] (strike out whichever does not apply)
[16:43] <katco> we really should modify mup to report CI status.
[16:43] <natefinch> katco: the only thing that never lies is this page: https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bugs?field.status%3Alist=TRIAGED&field.status%3Alist=INPROGRESS&field.importance%3Alist=CRITICAL&field.tag=ci+regression+&field.tags_combinator=ALL
[16:43] <fwereade> ericsnow, (context: I added Factory and moved NewHookContext into export_test.go, but didn't fix all the tests that used it)
[16:43]  * natefinch has that labeled in his bookmarks toolbar as "CI Blockers"
[16:44] <katco> it seems like this question comes up CONSTANTLY and from different people
[16:44] <katco> it's clearly something we need to make more clear somehow
[16:44] <natefinch> katco: yeah, I don't know enough about launchpad to know if there's some way to create a status page or something
[16:45] <natefinch> katco: rather than a random filter of existing bugs
[16:45] <katco> natefinch: there is; i wrote some emacs lisp to interface w/ launchpad
[16:45] <katco> natefinch: ah, yeah that's probably what it would be: does this query return anything? blocked. no? not blocked.
[16:45] <ericsnow> fwereade: got it
[16:45] <katco> and then have mup periodically do that
[16:45] <katco> and change the room topic
[16:46] <katco> and maybe announce it
[16:46] <katco> ~1m or so
[16:46] <natefinch> please no announcements every minute :)
[16:46] <katco> no i mean if it changes haha
[16:47] <katco> "CI IS OPEN AND ALL IS WELL! HEAR YE HEAR YE!"
[16:48] <fwereade> haha
[16:48] <katco> ^ this guy gets it!
[16:48] <natefinch> it would be nice, but not really sufficient, I think.  It's easy to miss stuff in IRC, and you don't see the room title except on login....  I'm much rather have a webpage with a URL I can at least attempt to remember that I can point people to.
[16:49] <katco> natefinch: +1; but fwiw, the topic is always up for me and i can set notifications on keywords/people
[16:49] <voidspace> natefinch: if you use xchat you see the room title all the time
[16:50] <katco> natefinch: but i website would be a great first step. i don't even care if it's blank and the background changes from #00FF00 to #FF0000
[16:50] <natefinch> Oh, yeah, there it is at the top of the screen...
[16:50] <katco> and it should probably be hooked into reports.vapour or w/e
[16:50] <natefinch> it's just like a foot above where I usually look on my IRC window
[16:50] <voidspace> hah...
[16:51] <voidspace> natefinch: you remember the question I asked you about netmasks the other day? How to work out the last ip in a subnet.
[16:51] <voidspace> natefinch: I was taking the number of zeros in the netmask, then OR'ing (2 ** numZeros -1) with the first IP
[16:52] <voidspace> natefinch: which works
[16:52] <voidspace> natefinch: but instead you can do 1 << numZeros
[16:52] <voidspace> natefinch: which gives you the number of IPs in the subnet
[16:52] <natefinch> voidspace: ahh, bit twiddling
[16:52] <voidspace> natefinch: and is a bit more elegant (then add that to the first IP)
[16:52] <voidspace> natefinch: yeah, fun
[16:52] <natefinch> voidspace: evidently useful for more than CS101 and job interviews ;)
[16:53] <voidspace> hehe
[16:53] <voidspace> and crypto
[16:54] <natefinch> voidspace: well, I guess... though if you're writing your own bit twiddling code for crypto, you're probably doing it wrong.
[16:54] <voidspace> natefinch: yeah probably
[16:55] <natefinch> voidspace: but I get your meaning.  Certainly bit twiddling is useful in many circumstances... I was mostly joking :)
[16:55] <voidspace> natefinch: :-)
[17:05] <dimitern> ericsnow, hey
[17:05] <ericsnow> dimitern: what's up?
[17:06] <dimitern> ericsnow, mattyw asked a question today about which repos are handled by the automatic RB diff creation from PRs
[17:06] <ericsnow> dimitern: currently just core and utils
[17:06] <dimitern> ericsnow, and now that I think of it - I wondered as well
[17:07] <dimitern> ericsnow, ah, ok, thanks
[17:07] <ericsnow> dimitern: It's been on my todo list to add the rest of the ones that RB knows about
[17:07] <dimitern> ericsnow, and where is the bot/script that does that live?
[17:07] <dimitern> s/live//
[17:08] <dimitern> ericsnow, iirc it's running on some ec2 instance
[17:08] <ericsnow> dimitern: it's a github webhook (pointing to a RB URL)
[17:08] <ericsnow> dimitern: oh, the GH bot?  I don't know
[17:08] <dimitern> ericsnow, ah right
[17:09] <dimitern> ericsnow, so each repo has a webhook configured?
[17:09] <dimitern> ericsnow, each := juju and utils I mean
[17:09] <ericsnow> dimitern: exactly
[17:10] <dimitern> ericsnow, ok,thanks
[17:10] <ericsnow> dimitern: np
[17:14] <alexisb> wwitzel3, you around?
[17:19] <voidspace> alexisb: o/
[17:20] <voidspace> alexisb: hey, alexis - just saying hi
[17:20] <voidspace> alexisb: happy christmas and see you next year :-)
[17:20] <wwitzel3> alexisb: yes, the bug ended up not being a blocker for gce
[17:21] <voidspace> wwitzel3: and you Wayne - I'm signing off for the year shortly... have a good holiday
[17:22] <wwitzel3> voidspace: ahh, have a great one! :)
[17:22] <katco> voidspace: happy new year!
[17:22] <voidspace> katco: thanks :-) Have a good break and see you on the other side.
[17:23] <alexisb> hey there voidspace we havent chatted in like forever
[17:23] <katco> voidspace: you too! best to you and your family
[17:23] <alexisb> you must not be on my calendar
[17:23] <alexisb> howdy and happy holidays to you!
[17:23] <voidspace> alexisb: I don't think I am...
[17:23] <voidspace> alexisb: we can sort that out next year :-)
[17:23] <alexisb> voidspace, I will fix that
[17:23] <voidspace> coolio
[17:41] <perrito666> mgosuites are a torture
[18:03] <wwitzel3> so anyone have any pointers on why the /var/lib/juju folder and nonce.txt would not be being created?
[18:04] <wwitzel3> when bootstrapping
[18:11] <hazmat> anybody seen these types of errors out of go 1.4
[18:11] <hazmat> $ go get -u -v github.com/docker/swarm/...
[18:11] <hazmat> package github.com/docker/swarm: /home/kapil/src/github.com/docker/swarm is from https://github.com/docker/swarm/, should be from https://github.com/docker/swarm
[18:23] <voidspace> right, EOY
[18:23] <voidspace> bye all
[18:24] <voidspace> have a great holiday and new year, and see you there...
[18:34] <wwitzel3> ericsnow: I'm going to grab some food, but I'll leave my session up
[18:34] <ericsnow> wwitzel3: k
[18:34] <ericsnow> wwitzel3: ping me when you're back
[18:35] <ericsnow> perrito666: so it looks like restore has to be all committed by Jan 9...
[18:36] <perrito666> ericsnow: so it seems
[18:36] <ericsnow> perrito666: or we'll need to disable backups in 1.22 like we did in 1.21
[18:36] <perrito666> we are getting there if CI has enough non locked time
[18:37] <ericsnow> perrito666: :)
[18:38] <ericsnow> if anyone has a few minutes to spare, I could use a review on http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/659/
[18:39] <ericsnow> it's a basically a copy of utils/set.Strings with s/String/Int/ :)
[18:39] <natefinch> ericsnow: ship it!
[18:39] <ericsnow> natefinch: thanks
[18:39] <natefinch> ericsnow: I had looked at it before but forgot to hit the ship it button
[19:07] <wwitzel3> ericsnow: back
[19:08] <ericsnow> brt
[19:13] <wwitzel3> during bootstrap what is responsible for creating the /var/lib/juju on the instance?
[19:14] <wwitzel3> right now, during ssh, when we login, there is no /var/lib/juju/nonce.txt file
[19:14] <wwitzel3> in fact, there is no /var/lib/juju folder at all
[19:14] <wwitzel3> the finish bootstrap command expects that nonce.txt file
[19:14] <ericsnow> (on GCE)
[19:14] <wwitzel3> so that is why GCE is failing atm
[19:22] <natefinch> wwitzel3: cloud init makes it
[20:16] <katco> is there a good, clear example of using suites to set up a full juju stack? i'm getting nil-reference exceptions and it's not exactly clear to me why
[20:19] <perrito666> katco: mm?
[20:19] <natefinch> There's the dummy provider, but proceed with caution... there be dragons
[20:19] <katco> perrito666: so you know how we chain suites in tests?
[20:19] <perrito666> katco: I have no clue
[20:20] <katco> perrito666: i am probably wording it poorly
[20:20] <natefinch> embed this suite in that suite etc etc
[20:20] <katco> yeah
[20:31] <perrito666> natefinch: I might have let you a review in priv
[20:33] <natefinch> katco: I think it's the JujuConnSuite
[20:33] <katco> natefinch: what is?
[20:34] <natefinch> katco: the suite that gives you a bootstrapped env
[20:34] <natefinch> katco: /home/nate/src/github.com/juju/juju/juju/testing/conn.go
[20:34] <katco> natefinch: ah ironically that's where the panic happens :p
[20:34] <thumper> hello folks
[20:34] <perrito666> thumper: morning mate
[20:34] <thumper> katco: what is your error?
[20:34] <katco> natefinch: it's the confluence of using that package with another suite i think
[20:34] <waigani> thumper: http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/627/
[20:34] <perrito666> natefinch: btw, if we have blocking bugs the topic might benefit from that info
[20:34] <waigani> thumper: and follow up branch http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/657/
[20:35] <perrito666> waigani: I answered one question on one of your reviews
[20:35] <thumper> natefinch: is anyone on your team dealing with https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1396099 ?
[20:35] <mup> Bug #1396099: AWS/Joyent/HP/manual/maas: juju deploy error "connection is shut down" <api> <ci> <deploy> <ec2-provider> <joyent-provider> <manual-provider> <regression> <juju-core:Triaged by natefinch> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1396099>
[20:35] <thumper> I don't always trust the assignee
[20:35] <perrito666> thumper: btw, thanks for taking over yesterday
[20:36] <waigani> perrito666: which review?
[20:36] <waigani> perrito666: got it
[20:36] <perrito666> http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/645/diff/#http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/645/diff/#
[20:36] <thumper> perrito666: that's fine
[20:36] <perrito666> waigani:  that, but only once
[20:37]  * perrito666 lends his computer a second to his mother in law to look up the recipe of a sweet chrismas bread and is profusely ... criticized... for having the kb layout US
[20:38] <waigani> hehe
[20:39] <waigani> perrito666: where are the tests for the Restore func?
[20:40] <perrito666> waigani: not yet pushed, sadly when I click fixed it sumits immediately instead of remaining in my draft
[20:40] <perrito666> waigani: but you added a ?
[20:40] <perrito666> which is not very clear
[20:41] <waigani> perrito666: sorry about that , I dropped it
[20:42] <katco> thumper: so i'm trying to use the cmd/jujud/agent/testing/agent.go suite, and if i use that alone i get errors with various workers trying to operate on my host's real fs
[20:42] <katco> thumper: and then the test just keeps trying to dial the state server which apparently didn't come up
[20:43] <katco> thumper: so i tried to bring in juju/juju/testing, and that gives me a nil reference exception (hold)
[20:43] <thumper> katco: do you have the code handy?
[20:43] <katco> thumper: do you feel like doing a peer coding session?
[20:44] <thumper> could do...
[20:44] <katco> thumper: it's not pushed up anywhere yet
[20:44] <thumper> ok
[20:44] <perrito666> waigani: no problem I was curious if that actually was a way to say wtf
[20:57] <perrito666> ericsnow: my mind is a bit clouded, the cool upload is already landed right?
[20:57] <ericsnow> perrito666: right
[20:59] <perrito666> tx man
[21:02] <menn0> wallyworld: ping?
[21:03] <perrito666> ah wallyworld ping me with relative low priority when you have a moment
[21:18] <ericsnow> where does nonce.txt get written to the new instance during bootstrap?
[21:18] <natefinch> ericsnow: it gets added to the stuff cloud init does
[21:18] <ericsnow> natefinch: but where?
[21:19] <natefinch> ericsnow: github.com/juju/juju/environs/cloudinit/cloudinit_ubuntu.go#105
[21:20] <ericsnow> natefinch: that doesn't write anything to the new host though, right?
[21:21] <ericsnow> natefinch: doesn't that happen in cloudinit/sshinit/configure.go?
[21:21] <natefinch> ericsnow: yeah, it adds a line to cloud init... github.com/juju/juju/cloudinit/options.go#374
[21:21] <ericsnow> natefinch: right
[21:30] <perrito666> hey people heads up https://github.com/blog/1938-vulnerability-announced-update-your-git-clients
[21:38] <ericsnow> natefinch: is there an initial /var/lib/juju/nonce.txt included in the cloud images?
[21:39] <natefinch> ericsnow: no clue
[21:39] <ericsnow> natefinch: :(
[21:53] <wallyworld> perrito666: hi
[21:53] <perrito666> wallyworld: hi
[21:53] <perrito666> wallyworld: ill privmsg you
[22:04] <menn0> hmmm.... I think I've found another upgrade regression that's unrelated to what I'm looking at
[22:07] <wallyworld> menn0: hi
[22:08] <menn0> wallyworld: hi
[22:08] <menn0> wallyworld: i think I figured out what i was going to ask you
[22:08] <wallyworld> ask away
[22:08] <menn0> wallyworld: but i'm about to ask you to review a fix to one of the CI blockers
[22:08] <wallyworld> sure
[22:09] <menn0> wallyworld: it's a bit of a reorg of the apiworker in the machine agent
[22:09]  * katco looks at menn0 nervously
[22:09] <wallyworld> is this the upgrade bug with uuid?
[22:09] <menn0> yep
[22:10] <alexisb> menn0, travel approved
[22:10] <menn0> wallyworld: but that change has exposed a "bug" in the machine agent
[22:10] <menn0> alexisb: thanks
[22:10] <menn0> wallyworld: the container setup code was running during upgrades
[22:10] <wallyworld> menn0: so we are roomies, thumper will be jealous
[22:11] <wallyworld> ah, container setup code should run after upgrades shouldn't it
[22:11] <menn0> thumper has nothing to worry about. you're all his :-p
[22:11] <wallyworld> \o/
[22:11] <menn0> wallyworld: yep
[22:11] <menn0> wallyworld: give me a few minutes and you can see what i've done. it's not completely straightforward to fix this.
[22:12] <wallyworld> i guess till now the container setup didn't really matter when it ran so we got away with it
[22:12] <menn0> wallyworld: well kinda,
[22:12] <menn0> wallyworld: there was always a lurking bug there
[22:13] <wallyworld> yeah
[22:13] <wallyworld> i men it was luck nothing broke till now
[22:13] <wallyworld> mean
[22:13] <menn0> wallyworld: if the machines collection migration happened at about the same time as the container setup it could have blown up anyway
[22:13] <menn0> wallyworld: it's just much more likely now
[22:14] <wallyworld> menn0: one thing also that needs doing is to delay the api worker start up until after the first address change has come in
[22:14] <wallyworld> to allow the server cert to be regenerated
[22:14] <wallyworld> with the machine ip addresses
[22:15] <wallyworld> thus avoiding a restart after any clients that manage to connect realy, really quickly
[22:15] <menn0> wallyworld: yeah, the other CI problem
[22:15] <wallyworld> oh, they raised a blocker for that?
[22:15] <wallyworld> wtf
[22:15] <wallyworld> sigh
[22:15] <wallyworld> that will not be an issue in practice
[22:16] <wallyworld> i wish blockers we added to the juju-dev topic
[22:16] <wallyworld> so we could see them
[22:30] <menn0> wallyworld: they are but it seems to be a manual process
[22:30] <menn0> wallyworld: a bot should do it
[22:30] <wallyworld> yes
[22:32] <menn0> wallyworld: here's that fix https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/1343
[22:33] <wallyworld> menn0: ta, in ameeting will look soon
[22:34] <menn0> thumper: can you look at https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/1343 pls? wallyworld is probably best placed to review this but he's in a meeting but I'd like to get this CI blocker fixed.
[22:37] <thumper> menn0: ack
[22:41] <thumper> menn0: Ship It!
[22:41] <menn0> thumper: ta
[22:50] <stokachu> when did juju rename its ssh keys to juju_id_rsa?
[22:50] <stokachu> or has it always been like that
[22:52] <wallyworld> menn0: change looks good, thanks for fixing
[22:52] <menn0> wallyworld: great
[22:52] <wallyworld> stokachu: i'm not 100% sure, i thought it was always like that
[22:52] <menn0> wallyworld, thumper: thanks for the reviews
[22:52] <stokachu> wallyworld: ok cool
[22:53] <menn0> wallyworld: this API server restart issue is affecting my personal test scripts too :)
[22:53] <menn0> wallyworld: it'll probably bite anyone who has scripted deployments
[22:54] <wallyworld> i'm about to relocate, will look at it as soon as i'm online again ain about 20 mins
[22:55] <stokachu> i wonder, if using JUJU_HOME causes the sshkeys to be renamed
[22:55]  * thumper sighs
[22:55] <thumper> I need to take the dog to the vet
[22:55] <thumper> bbl
[22:56] <stokachu> though i can't find anywhere in the code where juju_id_rsa is referenced
[23:24] <perrito666> mm, making a function take a variadic argument does not imply I get a slice of that type right?
[23:26] <katco> perrito666: the argument is used as a slice, but you are not guaranteed its length is > 0
[23:27] <perrito666> but, is it a slice?
[23:27] <katco> yes
[23:27] <katco> well... you mean like down at the AST level?
[23:27] <katco> like if you used reflection would it be a slice?
[23:27] <perrito666> katco: like I want to append it to a [][]string :)
[23:27] <perrito666> katco: exactly
[23:27] <katco> oh, yep. it's a slice :)
[23:28] <perrito666> so I have a slice of string slices and I append the variadic arg to it (tests)
[23:28] <perrito666> but when I try to DeepEqual each of the slices I get an error about the capacity
[23:29] <katco> i am not sure how go constructs the capacity under the covers for variadic parameters
[23:29] <katco> my guess is that it matches the number of parameters passed in exactly?
[23:30] <katco> but it's almost certainly constant, so i'd allocate your test values with whatever capacity it says go has provided
[23:38] <perrito666> katco: It seems that it expects the subslices to have been properly allocated
[23:38] <perrito666> so I have to make them and then fill them with the contents of the variadic arg
[23:38] <katco> perrito666: deep equals?
[23:38] <perrito666> it does not support dirrect assignation
[23:38] <perrito666> katco: yup
[23:38] <katco> i guess that makes sense
[23:39] <perrito666> I would expect go to have that kind of information for those slices
[23:43] <perrito666> katco: https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/1326/files#diff-32f2baace5b89ccd33a7a5a4c0619b3bR67
[23:43] <perrito666> I end up having to do that
[23:46] <perrito666> If anybody want to take a second look at  http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/645/ Ill be thankful
[23:47] <katco> perrito666: that code makes send to me. what is unintuitive about it?
[23:47] <perrito666> katco: well it makes a string slice and copies a string slice
[23:48] <perrito666> but I am most likely de-referencing some pointers there which might be what was breaking my code
[23:49] <katco> oh, so if you just do a mgoArgs = append(mgoArgs, mongoRestoreArgs...) it complains?
[23:49] <perrito666> I have not tried, if you look closely I dont want to append the elements of mongoRestoreArgs but the slice itself
[23:50] <katco> perrito666: oh i think i see what you meant
[23:51] <katco> perrito666: the variadic slice didn't have the correct capacity
[23:51] <perrito666> katco: exactly, which is odd
[23:51] <katco> perrito666: i think there is a way to size it down... hm
[23:51] <perrito666> katco: well what I end up doing is clear so I will leave it that way
[23:53] <katco> perrito666: maybe make the new slice, and then do a copy?
[23:53] <katco> to elide the for loop?
[23:54] <perrito666> I somehow fear copy will blow in a similar way?
[23:54] <katco> perrito666: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/12768744/re-slicing-slices-in-golang
[23:54] <katco> perrito666: well if it's truly the capacity that's erroring out deepequals, as long as your destination slice is the correct capacity i think it should be fine
[23:55] <katco> looks like even better is this: mongoRestoreArgs = mongoRestoreArgs[0:]
[23:55] <perrito666> katco: I might give it a try
[23:55]  * perrito666 tries
[23:55] <katco> perrito666: should give you a slice ref with the correct cap. if not, try mongoRestoreArgs[0:len(mongoRestoreArgs)]
[23:55] <katco> with a nice comment :)
[23:57] <perrito666> katco: blows
[23:57] <katco> perrito666: both?
[23:57] <perrito666> katco: yup (I used a new variable because I find reassignation is a bit ugly)


 I'm doing an hour of LPI study at work
[14:05] <magespawn> funny how time moves when you are having fun
[14:08] <Vince-0> or snowed under with work tasks
[14:10] <magespawn> that too
[14:14] <Kilos> magespawn, whats news with banlam and bakuman , they left the country and their pcs come online or what?
[14:15] <magespawn> are they out of the country Kilos?
[14:15] <Kilos> lol im asking you?
[14:15] <Kilos> hehe
[14:15] <magespawn> no idea
[14:15] <Kilos> Banlam, wb
[14:15] <magespawn> maybe they just busy
[14:16] <Kilos> havent seen or heard from them in months
[14:20] <magespawn> i am trying to upgrade kubuntu from 12.10 to 13.04, and i am not having much luck so far
[14:20] <Kilos> aw
[14:20] <magespawn> keeps telling me no new release found
[14:20] <Kilos> alternate cd or online upgrade
[14:21] <magespawn> online upgrade
[14:21] <Kilos> you been trying for hours now
[14:21] <Kilos> wassup
[14:21] <magespawn> nah was out of the shop most of the day
[14:21] <Kilos> ah
[14:21] <Kilos> ithought you started it before you left
[14:22] <magespawn> i type in do-release-upgrade -d then it comes back Checking for new Ubuntu Release, No new release found
[14:22] <magespawn> i tried but then had to run
[14:23] <Kilos> maybe wrong command
[14:23] <Kilos> ask superfly
[14:23] <Kilos> he always does upgrades
[14:23] <magespawn> superfly you free?
[14:23] <superfly> not right now
[14:23] <Kilos> na hes expensive
[14:24] <Kilos> magespawn, hasnt muon got a block to tick to do it
[14:24] <Kilos> like update manager
[14:25] <magespawn> will have a look been using the command line to far
[14:25] <Kilos> you may be missing something in your command
[14:26] <Kilos> with apt-get or aptitude or just sudo do-the-thing
[14:28] <Cantide> i did an upgrade once.. it worked fine
[14:28] <Cantide> i didn't use the command line though
[14:28] <Cantide> can't remember exactly what i did >.<
[14:28] <magespawn> i am downloading all the latest iso so if it does not work then will do a freash install
[14:29] <magespawn> fresh as well
[14:32] <Cantide> fresh installs are always the best
[14:32] <Cantide> which is why i've not done an upgrade since that one time :p
[14:35] <Kilos> i think so too
[14:36] <Kilos> if you have separate partitions
[14:36] <Kilos> or save /home/ to a backup
[14:39] <Cantide> yeah :p
[14:39] <magespawn> all my data is on an external drive anyway, so just have to redo my extra programs
[14:40] <magespawn> this was a kde install over one of the others so that might also be why it is not working right
[14:40] <Cantide> i tweak my OS a lot after installing -.-
[14:40] <Cantide> keyboard input, programs... lots of them
[14:40] <Cantide> it takes some time to get everything set up again :<
[14:42] <Kilos> ya getting everything the same takes much longer than the install
[14:42] <Cantide> yup
[14:42] <Cantide> else i'd be running 13.04 right now :p
[14:42] <Kilos> but having a separate /home and not deleting it helps
[14:42] <Cantide> yup
[14:42] <Cantide> much easier, but i've heard /home can break things because of settings
[14:43] <Kilos> mail and pidgin and so remembers whats what
[14:43] <Cantide> i'd rather store my data elsewhere and just wipe everything else :p
[14:43] <Kilos> and all the junk on the desktop returns
[14:45] <Kilos> even the dejadup backup option works well
[14:50] <magespawn> does anyone know where we can get remastersys from?
[14:50] <magespawn> and what is LVM?
[14:50] <magespawn> Logical Volume Manager?
[14:52] <Kilos> Maaz, google remastersys for ubuntu
[14:52] <Maaz> Kilos: "Remastersys" http://www.remastersys.com/ :: "Index of /ubuntu - Remastersys" http://www.remastersys.com/ubuntu/ :: "Remastersys 3.0.1-1 for Ubuntu released" http://www.remastersys.com/forums/index.php?topic=1923.0 :: "images - How do I install remastersys? - Ask Ubuntu" http://askubuntu.com/questions/133272/how-do-i-install-remastersys :: "remastersys -
[14:52] <Maaz> Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remastersys :: "How-to Instal…
[14:52] <Kilos> what version magespawn
[14:53] <Kilos> tumbleweed, hi there, whats news about getting maaz to stop doing double post like this
[14:53] <magespawn> any i suppose, all?
[14:53] <Kilos> no man of ubuntu
[14:53] <Kilos> i dunno if they differ
[14:54] <Kilos> it worked here on 12.04 kde and unity
[14:54] <Kilos> running off dvd is the same as running of your drive
[14:55] <Kilos> now 12.04 dont crash anymore because i got it all
[14:58] <magespawn> here is the link of the guys who have forked the project http://system-imaging.blogspot.com/
[15:02] <Kilos> save that magespawn ill need it come 14.04 time
[15:03] <magespawn> can we ask Maaz to save it?
[15:06] <Kilos> ya
[15:06] <Kilos> Maaz, remastersys is <reply> http://system-imaging.blogspot.com/
[15:06] <Maaz> Kilos: I'll remember that
[15:07] <magespawn> there we go then
[15:27] <superfly> magespawn: ping
[15:27] <magespawn> hey superfly
[15:27] <superfly> (on my way home now)
[15:27] <superfly> magespawn: what did you want?
[15:28] <magespawn> i was trying to upgrade from kubuntu 12.10 to 13.04 and not having much luck
[15:28] <magespawn> was trying from the cli
[15:28] <magespawn> with do-release-upgrade
[15:28] <superfly> You did do-releasw-upgrade ?
[15:28] <superfly> Right (lag)
[15:29] <superfly> And them what happened?
[15:29] <superfly> Argh autocorrect!
[15:29] <magespawn> it checked then said no new release
[15:32] <Kilos> magespawn, dont kde come from a different site?
[15:32] <Kilos> or is it all in the repos
[15:33] <magespawn> as far as i know it is
[15:33] <Kilos> same
[15:33] <Kilos> Maaz, google where to get kubuntu 13.04
[15:33] <Maaz> Kilos: "Kubuntu 13.04 | Kubuntu" http://www.kubuntu.org/news/kubuntu-13.04 :: "Kubuntu | Friendly Computing" http://www.kubuntu.org/ :: "News and Announcements | Kubuntu" http://www.kubuntu.org/news :: "Kubuntu 13.04 Final Release Review - Fancy but Unstable - YouTube" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGu5ZSPTqYA :: "See What`s New In Kubuntu 13.04 (Raring Ringtail)
[15:33] <Maaz> ~ Web Upd8 ..." http://www.webupd8.org/2013/04/see-whats-new-in-kubuntu-1304-raring.html …
[15:33] <magespawn> new iso will be finished in the morning so no stress really
[15:34] <magespawn> i am also going to try debian
[15:34] <Kilos> different links
[15:34] <Kilos> you said you added kde on to there
[15:34] <magespawn> i think so but cannot actually remember
[15:35] <Kilos> maybe its still looking at ubuntu links
[15:35] <magespawn> maybe
[15:35] <magespawn> i thought i was getting the command wrong
[15:35] <Kilos> look in muon where it is looking
[15:36] <Kilos> if its ubuntu link give the kubuntu one instead
[15:36] <magespawn> pc packed away now, getting ready to go home
[15:36] <Kilos> ah
[15:37] <Kilos> ok go safe see you later
[15:38] <magespawn> not going just yet
[15:39] <Kilos> ok
[15:39] <magespawn> still got a few things to do
[16:02] <magespawn> home time, later all
[16:02] <Kilos> ok
[17:35] <Kilos> hmm...
[17:35] <Kilos> g+ getting like facebook
[17:36] <Kilos> peeps i dont even know add me to their circles
[17:36] <Kilos> i havent even posted there  i think
[17:37] <Kilos> that oke linu sounds like me. hehe
[17:37] <Kilos> wow its free
[17:41] <Symmetria> http://www.flickr.com/photos/95680965@N04/8782182241/in/set-72157633494536721
[17:41] <Symmetria> ! its the insect overlords cousin
[18:31] <Kilos> hmm... i miss inetpro here
[18:31] <Kilos> he remembers lots ive forgotten
[18:31] <Kilos> hi cocooncrash hows things with you?
[19:05] <ThatGraemeGuy> hello peeps
[19:05] <Cantide> hello, ThatGraemeGuy
[19:05] <Kilos> hi ThatGraemeGuy
[19:06] <ThatGraemeGuy> finally getting around to installing kubuntu
[19:07] <Kilos> lol
[19:08] <Kilos> its lekker but took some getting used to
[19:09] <ThatGraemeGuy> haven't used kde in YEARS
[19:10] <ThatGraemeGuy> i think the last time i used it, Ubuntu hardly existed
[19:10] <Kilos> ah then you got the basics already
[19:10] <Kilos> is kde and kubuntu the same thing?
[19:11] <ThatGraemeGuy> not quite
[19:11] <ThatGraemeGuy> kde is the desktop environment
[19:11] <ThatGraemeGuy> kubuntu is the ubuntu base system with kde
[19:12] <ThatGraemeGuy> regular ubuntu is ubuntu's base with the unity desktop environment
[19:12] <Kilos> i mean do they look the same
[19:12] <ThatGraemeGuy> well kubuntu uses kde as its desktop, so yes
[19:12] <Kilos> what has kubuntu changed from pure kde
[19:12] <ThatGraemeGuy> but kde exists separately from ubuntu as well
[19:13] <Kilos> then youll enjoy it
[19:13] <ThatGraemeGuy> i don't know really, not a lot i'd imagine
[19:15] <Kilos> so soon you also gonna be using quassel
[19:15] <Kilos> yo amanica
[19:15] <Kilos> another kde okey
[19:16] <trender> tonight its twice as nice hour
[19:16] <Kilos> huh?
[19:16] <trender> 2 nicks for the price of one
[19:16] <Kilos> lol
[19:16] <trender> bring in yer clones
[19:17] <Kilos> no these okes use quassel client and can bounce from cell or pc
[19:17] <trender> i should bring my 50 clones into this channel
[19:17] <Cantide> o.o
[19:17]  * Cantide hides
[19:17] <Kilos> hi Cantide
[19:17] <ThatGraemeGuy> uh, no you really shouldn't
[19:17] <trender> make this channel rok
[19:18] <Kilos> no man this is a work channel
[19:18] <trender> we tunr this channle into a night club joll
[19:18] <Kilos> grrr
[19:18] <trender> :)
[19:18] <Cantide> hey Kilos :)
[19:21] <ThatGraemeGuy> ah there we go
[19:21] <ThatGraemeGuy> got a dark theme for quassel, my eyes rejoiceth
[19:24] <superfly> ThatGraemeGuy: I've got a stylesheet for Quassel based on KDE's Obsidian coast theme, which is the best dark theme for KDE (in my opinion)
[19:24] <superfly> now if only I could remember where I save it to
[19:24] <superfly> i mean, uploaded itp
[19:25] <ThatGraemeGuy> i put these sorts of random things in my dropbox :)
[19:25] <superfly> ah, here, of course: http://home.snyman.info/img/superfly_obsidian_coast.qss
[19:27] <ThatGraemeGuy> awesomesauce
[19:27] <ThatGraemeGuy> thanks
[19:27] <ThatGraemeGuy> and obsidian coast is nice too
[19:27] <ThatGraemeGuy> much easier on the old retinas :)
[19:27] <inetpro> good morning Kilos
[19:27] <Kilos> ohi inetpro wb
[19:28] <inetpro> Kilos: good to see you surviving
[19:28] <Kilos> onkruid vergaan nie
[19:29] <inetpro> ai!
[19:29] <Kilos> hehe hoe gaan dit boetie
[19:30] <inetpro> going well thanks, just gonna be busy for quite some time
[19:31] <Kilos> yeah well dont stay away from here all that time
[19:31] <inetpro> way to many changes at once
[19:31] <Kilos> hows the setting up going
[19:31] <inetpro> IMHO going very well
[19:31] <inetpro> but there are still a number of loose strings
[19:32] <Kilos> ah well youll sort it im sure
[19:32] <inetpro> need to tie them together before I can say that I'm happy
[19:43] <Kilos> oh my splits again
[19:46] <Kilos> inetpro, im even using xubuntu now as well
[19:46] <inetpro> wow!
[19:46] <inetpro> and? how is it?
[19:47] <Kilos> only xchat had no sound but otherwise good
[19:47]  * inetpro really need to get 8ta 10G this weekend
[19:48] <Kilos> they got 12.04 sorted out lekker now
[19:48] <Kilos> whew
[19:48] <inetpro> I run out of bundle way to quickly these days
[19:48] <Kilos> what eats all your data
[19:48]  * inetpro running on a terrible vodacom connection at the mo
[19:48] <Kilos> too many movies
[19:49] <inetpro> Kilos: not even
[19:49] <Kilos> ai!
[19:49] <Kilos> lekker to have you back though
[19:49] <inetpro> it's the odd youtube video here or there but otherwise mail and web stuffs
[19:50] <Kilos> sjoe
[19:53] <inetpro> Kilos: one trouble that I have is that as the kids grow older they also need more bandwidth
[19:54] <Kilos> oh ya
[19:54] <inetpro> and with smartphones et all it really becomes a mission to keep everyone on the right track
[19:55] <Kilos> yeah it would
[19:56] <Kilos> i gotta go sleep now
[19:56] <Kilos> night all. sleep tight
[19:56] <inetpro> nag oom Kilos
[19:56] <Kilos> nag inetpro alle voorspoed aan jou
[19:56] <inetpro> thanks
[20:03] <ThatGraemeGuy> night night all


[07:10] <pkh> hi, I've just installed lubuntu-12.10. everything great, but when I run a command from the menu that's set 'terminal=true', I get xterm rathre than lxterminal. is there a setting to change this default?
[07:54] <xll11> I'm a first-time linux user, any benefits of choosing lubuntu over ubuntu?
[07:57] <neurotus> xll11, memory usage might be the greatest benefit
[07:58] <neurotus> my lubuntu takes currently 155MB
[07:58] <neurotus> max 400-500MB
[07:59] <neurotus> my windows uses 3,7GB
[08:00] <pkh> I choose lubuntu over ubuntu on a high-end ultrabook with oodles of rm -- less crap, more responsive. just make sure you install something like synapse to save you walking the menus all the time
[10:06] <Rarrikins> Why does the networking applet say that wireless is disabled even though Enable Wireless is checked?
[10:08] <Rarrikins> I found that rmmod and modprobe of the wireless driver fixed it, but I'm still wondering how it happens.
[10:20] <JohnDoe_71Rus> http://s.pikabu.ru/post_img/2013/04/04/11/1365101207_281457401.png for smile
[13:44] <skdr> Hello, I got a quick newbie question: I saw that Chromium isn't updating on 12.10 without the 3rd party PPA. If I add this PPA, will each new update be handled by Lubuntu's Software Updater or is there some other software that takes care of updates from 3rd party PPA?
[17:50] <tortik> Why is system language menu downloads a languag-pack-kde-en on Lubuntu 12.04? IS there something related to kde?
[19:31] <flazer> hey guys, just had a quick question from someone.  They are on 12.04, and want to try out the 13.04 beta for testing.  They want to know if there is a way to jump straight from 12.04 to 13.04 beta without reinstalling the system
[19:32] <flazer> or also, without having to go to 12.10 first
[19:33] <Unit193> Technically you can try, but it's not recommended and not supported.  You should be able to use the alternate to upgrade, though.
[19:34] <phillw> flazer: it is something that is going to investigated during 13.10, but at present we can give no idea as to if it will bork your system.
[19:35] <flazer> gotcha
[19:35] <flazer> would another way to beta test be to use a live usb? and not actually install the image to your system?