[16:58] <ToyKeeper> I don't get along well with the sun or the heat.  I'm sick of not being able to wear more than a short skirt and small t-shirt without melting.
[16:59] <ToyKeeper> I don't mind having an excuse to wear big floppy sun hats though.
[16:59] <ToyKeeper> And my office is much nicer ever since I finally got an air conditioner last week.
[17:00] <ToyKeeper> ... but cooler weather is definitely preferable.
[17:28] <FunnyLookinHat> ToyKeeper, I worked in a garage up until two weeks ago...  and it sucked.


[00:41] <bazhang> ikonia, you about? here is a useful link if you dont have keyboard setup for -ru http://russian.speak7.com/russian_phrases.htm
[00:42] <bazhang> ikonia, there are several links from that page with more such
[01:03] <elkbuntu> how goes that anyway
[01:03] <elkbuntu> bazhang ^^
[01:04] <bazhang> elkbuntu, its okay; it was pretty late here when I got rights there, so have not been online much for it. they seem to have calmed down quite a bit though
[01:04] <bazhang> the real test will be to see how much they are spamming, abusing/harassing the other #ubuntu channels
[01:05] <bazhang> that zloy fellow kline evaded something like three times.
[01:05] <elkbuntu> it's not just ubuntu channels. two releases ago they sent a delegation to ##windows to troll them
[01:05] <elkbuntu> that's just the incident i actually know about
[01:05] <bazhang> good point; freenode overall
[01:05] <elkbuntu> yep
[01:06] <elkbuntu> i'd chance that they hit up other distro channels on a regular basis.
[01:07] <bazhang> no question; especially the core three or four that were abusing the #ubuntu channels
[01:07] <bazhang> then celebrating back in -ru
[01:08] <elkbuntu> how did your discussion with the russian op go?
[01:08] <bazhang> which one was that? A4Tech?
[01:08] <bazhang> not had one as of yet
[01:08] <elkbuntu> i dont know, i dont think i was told the nick
[01:09] <bazhang> probably him then
[01:11] <elkbuntu> ah, he was talking with gary, it seems.
[01:12] <bazhang> aha
[01:52] <bazhang> aim1159, ping
[09:07] <Gary> elkbuntu: bazhang: I talked to garfeild, who seemed mighty annoyed his loco caused issues
[09:08] <elkbuntu> Gary, i hope he was understanding that we had to take control at the time
[09:08] <Gary> yes
[09:08] <bazhang> Gary, he PM'ed me but I was not online; he had quit before I could respond. thanks for the update
[09:10] <elkbuntu> Gary, bazhang, i'd like to get his agreement to have bazhang mentor the channel. i think it'd be worthwhile having an external presence there for a while, and a means for communication.
[09:11] <bazhang> He is there now I can PM him if you think it prudent
[09:11] <elkbuntu> bazhang, yep, and have him hang out here when he's online too
[09:12] <elkbuntu> i'd like to not have to go in that channel if at all possible, given the series of unfortunate events it triggered.
[09:12] <bazhang> the ones who were leading the charge to abuse/harass seem to have all fled for the moment
[09:13] <elkbuntu> they'll be back.
[09:13] <bazhang> no doubt
[09:13] <bazhang> for how long though remains in question
[09:14] <elkbuntu> Gary, how many times has christel played whack-a-mole with zloy now?
[09:14] <Gary> erm, three, I think
[09:14] <Gary> I might be wrong though
[09:15] <elkbuntu> ah, so he hasnt returned since the last time
[09:15] <bazhang> I got him twice
[09:15] <elkbuntu> bazhang, i'm talking the k-force whacks
[09:16] <bazhang> elkbuntu, ah just one ban by me since then
[09:16] <Gary> since!
[09:16] <Gary> hey Garfeild
[09:16] <Garfeild> hi all (^_^)
[09:17] <bazhang> hi :)
[09:17] <elkbuntu> hi Garfeild :)
[09:17] <bazhang> Garfeild, would you mind keeping this channel in your join list?
[09:18] <Garfeild> i think it's possible
[09:19] <bazhang> thanks Garfeild
[09:19] <elkbuntu> excellent. so do you know aim1159? i was speaking to him about the russian loco channel a month or so back.
[09:20] <Garfeild> elkbuntu: yes, i know him
[09:20] <elkbuntu> Garfeild, cool, so we can come to either of you for russian loco stuff?
[09:23] <Garfeild> what does aim1159 think about it?
[09:24] <elkbuntu> Garfeild, he hasnt been active the past few days to my knowledge
[09:24] <elkbuntu> otherwise he could have helped us yesterday
[09:44] <Garfeild> elkbuntu: sorry, but can you explain what you mean?
[09:45] <elkbuntu> Garfeild, we have not talked to aim1159 recently. if we had, he could have helped us with zloy and friends.
[09:45] <Garfeild> i about your question )
[10:03] <Garfeild> elkbuntu: so?
[10:04] <elkbuntu> Garfeild, ?
[10:04] <elkbuntu> Garfeild, we dont know what aim1159 thinks. we have not talked to aim1159.
[10:07] <Garfeild> elkbuntu: heh...i understood that, but i couldn't understand what you mean in your question about LoCo stuff)
[10:08] <elkbuntu> Garfeild, ah. i meant: so, both of you are people to talk to about russian loco things
[10:47] <Garfeild> for me it's possible
[12:10] <marbisca> someone expert abot sh script?


[17:00] <ashams> thelinuxer, man, do you have any ideas about fund-raising for NGO?
[17:00] <thelinuxer> ideas like what?
[17:00] <thelinuxer> it always replies on connections
[17:01] <thelinuxer> talk to jonathan he has some ideas ...
[17:01] <ashams> thelinuxer, cool thanks
[17:01] <thelinuxer> ashams: yw
[17:01] <thelinuxer> btw
[17:02] <ashams> yes?
[17:02] <thelinuxer> I asked christine if she can send me the press release article
[17:02] <thelinuxer> she sent me this
[17:02] <thelinuxer> http://arabnet.me/conference/summit/press-releases/
[17:02] <ashams> checking it
[17:03] <thelinuxer> so i was thinking about putting these articles on the wiki
[17:03] <thelinuxer> and have it linked somehow
[17:03] <thelinuxer> bas i mesh 3aref 7ases-ha messy shewaya
[17:03] <ashams> yeah
[17:04] <ashams> can't we push it to the planet on loco.thelinuxer.net ?
[17:04] <thelinuxer> don't want el sara7a
[17:04] <thelinuxer> i want it to be local shewaya
[17:04] <ashams> aha
[17:04] <ashams> tab which one to be posted?
[17:05] <thelinuxer> maho this is the problem
[17:05] <thelinuxer> i thought it was one
[17:05] <thelinuxer> she sent me a list!
[17:05] <thelinuxer> so i think all of them..
[17:05] <thelinuxer> at least arabic ones
[17:06] <thelinuxer> anyway need to go now
[17:06] <thelinuxer> if u have any thoughts about the matter send me an email
[17:06] <thelinuxer> salam
[17:06] <ashams> ok
[17:06] <ashams> salam


[05:50] <viswesn> Juju will delete the storage that were added automatically on removing the charm?
[07:19] <kjackal> good morning Juju world!
[07:44] <viswesn> It is juju that will delete all the storage automatically that were added to the charm/unit on removing it or on destroying the controller. Please let me know if I am wrong in my understaning
[14:40] <jhobbs> one of my units is receiving a config changed hook every few hours or so, I am not sure where it is coming from, how can I debug that?  is there some way to enable logging of what is triggering the hook, and what config is changing?
[14:47] <jhobbs> ok.. i think it's this "when recovering from transient unit agent errors"
[14:52] <jrwren> jhobbs: does juju status show that it is not in error state?
[14:53] <jhobbs> i'm not sure jrwren, i'm not polling it constantly
[14:53] <jhobbs> http://paste.ubuntu.com/24313724/
[14:54] <jhobbs> w/wg 2
[14:56] <jrwren> jhobbs: you should probably run juju status and see what it says. Maybe `juju status --format yaml` to get more details.
[15:27] <admcleod>  /query kwmonroe
[15:27] <admcleod> wut
[15:27] <kwmonroe> spaces ftw
[15:27] <kwmonroe>  /kickban admcleod
[15:42] <admcleod>  /troutslap kwmonroe
[16:20] <rogpeppe> here's a question: can anyone think of a juju command that uses a single model that can succeed if there's no current model and no model specified?
[16:31] <rogpeppe> jcastro: ^
[20:03] <cory_fu> tvansteenburgh: If you have a minute, would you mind taking a look at https://travis-ci.org/juju/amulet/jobs/218604087 to see if you can figure out why it's complaining about "import yaml"?  pyyaml is in the test-requirements.txt and the pip log shows that it should be installed.
[20:17] <tvansteenburgh> cory_fu: https://travis-ci.org/juju/amulet/jobs/218604087#L679
[20:17] <cory_fu> tvansteenburgh: Yes.  "requirement already satisfied"  So why would it fail to import?
[20:17] <tvansteenburgh> yeah but it's not actually installed in the venv
[20:18] <cory_fu> tvansteenburgh: What venv?
[20:18] <cory_fu> Oh, Travis creates one.  Hrm
[20:18] <cory_fu> How did this work previously?
[20:21] <cory_fu> tvansteenburgh: Oh, it's because the install script is being run with sudo


[06:20] <Laney> hi from train!
[06:24] <duflu> Laney, hi from an upside down inertial frame of reference
[06:24] <Laney> duflu: you must have strong fingers
[06:25] <duflu> Laney, no the whole country is upside down
[06:37] <didrocks> good morning
[06:39] <nhaines> didrocks: good morning!
[06:40] <didrocks> hey nhaines!
[07:00] <duflu> Hi didrocks, nhaines
[07:16] <didrocks> hey duflu
[07:16] <c-lobrano> morning all :)
[07:21] <didrocks> hey c-lobrano!
[07:21] <oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
[07:21] <c-lobrano> didrocks: :)
[07:26] <didrocks> salut oSoMoN
[07:26] <oSoMoN> salut didrocks
[07:30] <seb128> good morning desktopers
[07:30] <didrocks> salut seb128 !
[07:30] <seb128> hey Laney duflu nhaines didrocks c-lobrano oSoMoN
[07:30] <duflu> Hi seb128, oSoMoN, c-lobrano
[07:32] <duflu> seb128, btw Wednesday will be a holiday in Au (and NZ?). Do you want me online that day anyway?
[07:33] <oSoMoN> salut seb128
[07:33] <seb128> duflu, I don't think it's needed, unless a release blocker fire that requires you is uncovered
[07:33] <oSoMoN> hey duflu
[07:33] <seb128> but that's not likely
[07:54] <didrocks> jibel: hey! So, if you plan to do a respin for ubiquity this week, I quickly wrote https://code.launchpad.net/~didrocks/ubiquity/oem-mode-telemetry/+merge/343781 to collect the oem mode as we discussed. It's up here, as you wish :)
[07:57] <seb128> jbicha, https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-shell/merge_requests/85 seems like one maybe worth trying to get in the release? that's bug #1765353 basically the polkit auth handler getting screwed if you dismiss a prompt
[07:57] <ubot5`> bug 1765353 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "gnome-control-center crashed with SIGSEGV in acquire_cb() from g_simple_async_result_complete()" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1765353
[07:57] <ubot5-ng> GNOME bug (Merge request) 85 in gnome-shell "polkitAgent: Guard against repeated close() calls" (comments: 0) [Merged]
[07:57] <seb128> it's making client code segfault and is screwed until you restart the session
[07:58] <seb128> the fix seems also easy enough
[08:00] <willcooke> morning
[08:01] <seb128> hey willcooke, how are you?
[08:01] <didrocks> hey willcooke, already arrived to the office?
[08:01] <didrocks> at*
[08:02] <willcooke> No, not going in today now
[08:02] <didrocks> ah ok ;)
[08:03] <duflu> Morning willcooke
[08:07] <seb128> willcooke, crap, I forgot about adding -openvpn to the iso after the recent discussion ... I guess for .1 at this point?
[08:07] <seb128> Laney, ^ wdyt?
[08:08] <willcooke> seb128, ah, I forgot too.
[08:08] <seb128> :/
[08:11] <duflu> seb128, that fix sounds like it might also solve bug 1765593
[08:11] <ubot5`> bug 1765593 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "Cannot restart synaptic if cancelled the first time" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1765593
[08:11]  * duflu quietly hopes it also explains a login failure bug or two
[08:13] <seb128> duflu, thx, sounds like you agree we should try to get it in :)
[08:13] <seb128> duflu, did you figure out something about your "first login fails" issue?
[08:13] <duflu> seb128, no I only added all the log messages I could find
[08:13] <duflu> Which was surprisingly little
[08:14] <seb128> :/
[08:14] <seb128> Laney, what did you mean by "if you make it write then the callback is called"? you got the callback connect to "changed" called?
[08:19] <doko> there seem to be some gobject triggered ftbfs regressions:
[08:19] <doko> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/363935466/buildlog_ubuntu-bionic-arm64.libqmi_1.18.0-3_BUILDING.txt.gz
[08:21] <duflu> doko, I think you mean a bug in libqmi-glib. That error is libqmi-glib's fault for failing to cast the result. Isn't it?
[08:23] <doko> duflu: I don't care who's fault this is, but I would expect those people updating to a new glib doing at least an analysis what fails, and the fixing it ...
[08:23] <doko> then even
[08:24] <seb128> doko, we would expect people updating to a new gcc also fixing all the issues in creates in the archive :p
[08:26] <doko> seb128: there's always an analysis of the build failures, which is *completely* missing for *any* glib upload
[08:26] <seb128> doko, I don't think that's a fair statement, we do fix the desktop set components and we look on other issues related when they are raised to us
[08:27] <duflu> seb128, you mentioned some key repeat problems on the login screen last week, do you have more info?
[08:29] <seb128> duflu, https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=777693 is what I was thinking about
[08:29] <ubot5`> Gnome bug 777693 in general "Input event (e. g. typing on keyboard) is sent repeatedly during high load" [Normal,Needinfo]
[08:29] <ubot5-ng> bugzilla.gnome.org bug 777693 in general "Input event (e. g. typing on keyboard) is sent repeatedly during high load" [Normal, Needinfo] - Assigned to gnome-shell-maint
[08:29] <ubot5`> bug 777693 in PernillaSYS "Crash-bug when trying to view registrations if none of the users conferences is locked" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/777693
[08:30] <seb128> see comment #10
[08:59] <Laney> hey seb128
[08:59] <Laney> just got to the office
[08:59] <Laney> seb128: connect the callback and then do a11y_settings[key_name] = False straight after
[09:00] <Laney> it calls the callback
[09:03] <seb128> Laney, hey,; ah right, if you do change it from the code
[09:03] <seb128> yeah, that works :/
[09:03] <seb128> I don't understand the difference with changing it from outside though :/
[09:04] <Laney> right it's connecting to the wrong dconf daemon or something
[09:05] <seb128> that's weird :/
[09:05] <seb128> it relies on the dconf daemon to get the changed signal?
[09:12] <Nafallo> salut o/
[09:13] <Laney> something like that
[09:32] <Wimpress> Morning desktopers
[09:32] <Wimpress> didrocks: I have something to show you :-)
[09:33] <Wimpress> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/5YW7QsK2/telemetry.png
[09:34] <Wimpress> didrocks: I think using flavour specific URLs is required, for people opting out. Otherwise all opt-out counts would be for Ubuntu only.
[09:35] <Wimpress> I think I've found a problem with passing in a URL however.
[09:35] <Wimpress> See this https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/mBB9F45Vqm/
[09:53] <Laney> why are VMs just so bad on my laptop
[09:54] <Laney> is this case particularly affected by spectre fixes?
[09:55] <willcooke> could well be
[10:18] <ads20000> ooo I've noticed slight slowdowns across my desktop, maybe that's why...
[10:22] <didrocks> Wimpress: hey, as explained last time, how to know which flavour is currently reporting?
[10:23] <didrocks> Is installing ubuntu-desktop + xubuntu-desktop should count as xubuntu our ubuntu?
[10:23] <didrocks> or*
[10:23] <didrocks> and now add even more metapackage :)
[10:23] <didrocks> and what about people removing those metapackages as well?
[10:23] <didrocks> that's why we decided against a generic ubuntu/desktop URL for now
[10:24] <didrocks> if you have any suggestions, they would be welcome, but sounds late anyway for release now
[10:33] <didrocks> (and also, I don't think we should collect flavor if they opt-out)
[11:29] <ads20000> seb128: forgive my stupidity in that bug report, I've worked out now how to read the journal but it's taking a while to get through it because an AppArmor denial on the Discord snap is cluttering the log (which I made persistent). In fact, system.journal is 100MB because of that (and only for the last five days) xD
[11:30] <seb128> urg :/
[11:30] <seb128> should get that reported/fixed
[11:30] <ads20000> Will do once it finishes spooling xD
[11:37] <ads20000> filed https://github.com/snapcrafters/discord/issues/23
[11:37] <ubot5-ng> snapcrafters bug 23 in discord "AppArmor denial cluttering systemd logs" (comments: 0) [Open]
[11:37] <ubot5`> bug 23 in Baz (deprecated) "baz redo should use merge3 for conflicts like most other commands do." [Medium,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/23
[11:52] <willcooke> didrocks, hey!  Do you think this is a Dock bug or a generic window matching one? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/1766230
[11:52] <ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1766230 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "Strange window matching behaviour between Slack and Chrome " [Undecided,New]
[11:53] <didrocks> willcooke: the machting is always done by the Shell, not the Dock, so generic window matching
[11:53] <didrocks> matching*
[11:53] <willcooke> thx didrocks
[11:53] <didrocks> yw ;)
[12:21] <GunnarHj> Hello seb128!
[12:22] <GunnarHj> Can you please take a look at this: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-translators/2018-April/007490.html
[12:22] <seb128> hey GunnarHj, how are you?
[12:22] <GunnarHj> seb128: It's fine here, how about you?
[12:24] <GunnarHj> seb128: Several important languages have added translations since I wrote that. The question is if there is a chance the get them in.
[12:28] <seb128> GunnarHj, sorry, dsl disconnected/changed IP so I lost some backlog. Did you see my reply/question? Did you answer
[12:28] <GunnarHj> seb128: No, saw no reply from you.
[12:29] <seb128> GunnarHj, I was saying that I saw that email and that the situation is a bit unfortunate but I'm unsure what's the question/what you need input on?
[12:30] <GunnarHj> seb128: Several important languages have added translations since I wrote that. The question is if there is a chance the get them in.
[12:30] <seb128> Laney, do you keep poking at that ubiquity/gsettings issue or did you give up as well after that unsuccessful round on friday?
[12:30] <seb128> GunnarHj, if the question is about a langpack respin I think you should ask Lukasz/#ubuntu-release
[12:31] <seb128> we could also change g-i-s to have a translations patch and no strip its translations
[12:31] <seb128> like distro update them with a launchpad export
[12:32] <GunnarHj> seb128: Not stripping is an option I didn't think of. Is Lukasz present today?
[12:33] <seb128> He should, I assumed he would be in London for the release week
[12:34] <GunnarHj> seb128: I'll join #ubuntu-release and check. (Have some IRC client problems. Have used Empathy since I started to use Ubuntu, but after upgrading to 18.04 it stopped working.)
[12:34] <seb128> :/
[12:35] <seb128> it's unmaintained and was never a great IRC client
[12:35] <GunnarHj> I like/liked it.
[12:37] <GunnarHj> seb128: What would you recommend for IRC?
[12:38] <GunnarHj> sil2100: Hey, we just talked about you. :)
[12:39] <seb128> GunnarHj, hexchat is popular, polaris is the GNOME one which might be worth trying
[12:39] <GunnarHj> seb128: Thanks. I picked hexchat for now. Seems promising.
[12:40] <seb128> :)
[12:40] <sil2100> What's up?
[12:40] <GunnarHj> sil2100: Did you see my mail late Friday night?
[12:41] <sil2100> hm, what was it about? I don't think I remember anything
[12:41] <GunnarHj> sil2100: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-translators/2018-April/007490.html
[12:42] <sil2100> GunnarHj: ok, so ugh, my Friday full export was useless then
[12:42] <GunnarHj> sil2100: Yeah, if we decide to request another one. Would that be possible?
[12:43] <sil2100> Yeah
[12:43] <sil2100> GunnarHj: how are things standing right now?
[12:44] <GunnarHj> sil2100: Several important languages have added translations since I wrote that. I'd say they have had their chance...
[12:46] <Laney> seb128: I'm looking, but plz to help too
[12:48] <seb128> Laney, I'm out of idea on what to try/how to debug :/
[12:48] <seb128> didrocks is trying to poke as well
[12:48] <sil2100> GunnarHj: ok... requesting an export now
[12:48] <sil2100> (maybe we'll make it in time)
[12:48] <didrocks> yeah, all dbus addresses are legit…
[12:49] <didrocks> so g-s-d is contacting the correct dconf-service, which is supposed to update the file and then send the signal to connected clients…
[12:50] <Laney> meow
[12:50] <Laney> I got one little glimmer
[12:50] <Laney> (ubiquity:23161): dconf-WARNING **: 12:31:27.488: failed to commit changes to dconf: The connection is closed
[12:51] <GunnarHj> sil2100: Great, thanks! If new langpacks before release would fail for some reason, seb128 pointed at the possibility wrt to gnome-initial-setup to upload it without stripping the translations.
[12:51] <Laney> thats when trying to set the key directly in gtk_ui.py
[12:51] <Laney> after making sure DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS was right
[12:51] <didrocks> isn't the only case where the callback was called though?
[12:51] <didrocks> (I didn't try that yet)
[12:53] <Laney> yes
[12:53] <Laney> but the write isn't committed properly
[13:01] <sil2100> GunnarHj: translation export is running, fingers crossed it'll finish soon
[13:02] <GunnarHj> sil2100: Yeah, fingers crossed...
[13:04] <didrocks> Laney: seb128: ok, so a very simple program just connecting to the change signal and running a mainloop, with super+alt+S from ubiquity-dm works
[13:04] <didrocks> (I started this program on a tty)
[13:07] <seb128> didrocks, right, I tried with that people.canonical.com/~seb128/startorca.py
[13:07] <seb128> http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/startorca.py
[13:08] <seb128> which is basically the code I added to ubiquity
[13:08] <didrocks> yep, similar to what I did, without the UI
[13:09] <didrocks> I wonder if there is anything with DBusGMainLoop(set_as_default=True) being called too soon
[13:09] <didrocks> as so some priviledges vs unpriviledges mixup and not connecting to the same session bus
[13:30] <ads20000> seb128: what happens for you if you open Software & Updates and then click Cancel on authentication?
[13:30] <ads20000> (when clicking a checkbox)
[13:31] <seb128> ads20000, that sounds like bug #1765353 you are hitting?
[13:31] <ubot5`> bug 1765353 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "gnome-control-center crashed with SIGSEGV in acquire_cb() from g_simple_async_result_complete()" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1765353
[13:32] <ads20000> seb128: ooooo maybe! I'll reboot and try again to see if it's like that bug...if so then I'll look forward to the proposed package!
[13:33] <seb128> :)
[13:33] <seb128> it might be enough thalt-f2 "r"
[13:43] <ads20000> Thanks seb128 it was indeed a dupe and I have marked the bug as such
[13:44] <seb128> ads20000, great!
[13:46] <ads20000> To gauge for related issues before filing again...I've got a problem where if I enter my password incorrectly a few times in GDM and then type it correctly, it fails to log in, just hangs with a cursor and the purple screen
[13:47] <ads20000> At least, I think that reliably produces the issue for me...
[13:51] <seb128> ads20000, bug #1766137
[13:51] <ubot5`> bug 1766137 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "[regression] Login fails when preceded by incorrect password" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1766137
[13:51] <seb128> bug #1765261
[13:51] <ubot5`> bug 1765261 in gdm3 (Ubuntu) "[regression] Ubuntu 18.04 login screen rejects a valid password on first attempt. Usually works on the second attempt" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1765261
[13:54] <seb128> ads20000, would be nice to report upstream if you can
[13:56] <ads20000> seb128: cheers, bug 1766137 is very closely related to mine (I don't get a menu I don't think, but other than that). If it's a repeated key that's the problem then why does it clear the gdm GUI at all?
[13:56] <ubot5`> bug 1766137 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "[regression] Login fails when preceded by incorrect password" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1766137
[13:56] <ads20000> (vanvugt suggests that a repeated key is the problem but I don't see how)
[13:57] <ads20000> *it clears the GDM GUI and just leaves you on a purple screen if you enter a correct password after the incorrect one
[14:00] <seb128> that sounds like the first of the 2 bugs listed
[14:25] <jbicha> mpt: are you around? I filed some first-login-window bugs. Any chance they could be looked at today? https://github.com/CanonicalLtd/desktop-design/issues/101 102 105
[14:25] <ubot5-ng> CanonicalLtd bug 101 in desktop-design "First login: What's new: wording suggestions" (comments: 2) [Open]
[14:25] <ubot5`> Error: Launchpad bug 101 could not be found
[14:26] <seb128> hey jbicha
[14:27] <jbicha> seb128: hi, yes I can do a gnome-shell upload for the polkit issue
[14:27] <seb128> jbicha, that would be great, thanks
[14:39] <ads20000> seb128: do you think this will be useful for upstream? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdm3/+bug/1766137/comments/9
[14:39] <ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1766137 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "[regression] Login fails when preceded by incorrect password" [High,Incomplete]
[14:40] <ads20000> and should I file against the shell or GDM?
[14:41] <ads20000> It just hangs on purple after the last message, not printing anything else to the log until I hard shutdown
[14:43] <seb128> shell
[14:59] <jibel> how do you translate the screenshot on the 1st page of gnome-initial-setup?
[14:59] <seb128> kenvandine, ^
[14:59] <jibel> it does not seem to be a way to localize it
[14:59] <seb128> Robert said he was working on that
[14:59] <seb128> but that was just before being on holidays
[14:59] <kenvandine> hmm
[14:59] <seb128> and he didn't reply to my question asking how
[15:00] <seb128> maybe Ken knows what he had in mind though
[15:00] <kenvandine> was it an svg?
[15:00] <seb128> that's what I suggested
[15:00] <kenvandine> ah
[15:00] <seb128> that we ask a svg to design
[15:00] <seb128> and do localized version
[15:00] <kenvandine> i knew i saw that somewhere :)
[15:00] <seb128> but nobody replied to that suggestion
[15:00] <kenvandine> :/
[15:01] <jibel> kenvandine, it's a png in the debian/ directory
[15:01] <seb128> Robert wrote "- What's new graphic not translatable - working on that." in his most recent email with the screenshots
[15:01] <jibel> is there a bug report ?
[15:01] <kenvandine> just an email thread i think
[15:05] <jibel> now there is one bug 1766277
[15:05] <ubot5`> bug 1766277 in gnome-initial-setup (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu changes graphic is not translatable" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1766277
[15:09] <seb128> willcooke, ^ did you ever get a reply from design about the svg?
[15:10] <seb128> Laney, didrocks, btw I submitted https://code.launchpad.net/~seb128/ubiquity/gsettings-calls-environ/+merge/343829 ... unsure if we want to get it in the release? Without that doing a keybinding that changes a gsettings key resets all the ubiquity overwrites (under ubiquity-dm)
[15:11] <seb128> like the unset of power manager, disabling for screensaver etc
[15:11] <didrocks> would be good to get it, as we discussed
[15:11] <jibel> seb128, what would be the potential impact of this change?
[15:11] <seb128> jibel, less bugs?
[15:12] <jibel> seb128, right, but I meant the other way :)
[15:12] <seb128> atm those sudo processes spawn a new dconf-service which conflicts with the session
[15:12] <jibel> any risk of regression or new bugs ?
[15:12] <didrocks> jibel: hey, btw, have you seen the little MR for OEM key (if we are going to have another respin for ubiquity)?
[15:12] <willcooke> seb128, https://github.com/CanonicalLtd/desktop-design/issues/66
[15:12] <ubot5-ng> CanonicalLtd bug 66 in desktop-design "Visual design for first-login window" (comments: 21) [Closed] - Assigned to lyubomir-popov (lyubomir)
[15:12] <ubot5`> Error: Could not gather data from Launchpad for bug #66 (https://launchpad.net/bugs/66). The error has been logged
[15:12] <willcooke> svg's attached to that ^
[15:12] <seb128> willcooke, k, thanks
[15:12] <jibel> didrocks, yes I did but it can wait or you want it in .0?
[15:12] <seb128> jibel, well, I guess making code that was not working working can lead to behaviour changes
[15:13] <jibel> didrocks, it's small it could be an opportunistic fix
[15:13] <seb128> it basically avoid a reset of those keys that happen sometime
[15:13] <didrocks> jibel: yeah, I think it would be good if we do another build of ubiquity as it's small
[15:13] <seb128> like when trying to enable the screen reader
[15:13] <seb128> then there is the discussion about what we do to fix the screen reader
[15:13] <seb128> we seems to able to understand why the callbacks don't work
[15:14] <seb128> maybe dbus rejecting the message because ubiquity/the mainloop is under another uid?
[15:14] <seb128> options are to either re-enable the keybinding handler code in ubiquity gtk_ui and let it handle the orca activation
[15:15] <seb128> or to add a small script activated with sudo -u <user> that does the gsettings listening/activation
[15:16] <seb128> didrocks, Laney, keybinding could be limited to -dm mode by putting in under
[15:16] <seb128>         if 'UBIQUITY_ONLY' in os.environ:
[15:16] <seb128> at least I think
[15:16] <seb128> (that's already a check used  to disable the logout indicator in gtk_ui.py)
[15:16] <didrocks> you mean, the listening part?
[15:16] <seb128> yes
[15:17] <seb128> if 'UBIQUITY_ONLY' in os.environ:
[15:17] <seb128>         self.live_installer.connect(
[15:17] <seb128>             'key-press-event', self.a11y_profile_keys)
[15:18] <didrocks> yeah, it would better than the alternative (subprocess), which would be along those lines: http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/gPJpzGbbnv/
[15:18] <ads20000> seb128: filed https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-shell/issues/227
[15:18] <ubot5-ng> GNOME bug 227 in gnome-shell "Login fails when preceded by incorrect password" (comments: 0) [Opened]
[15:18] <ubot5`> Error: Gnome bug 227 could not be found
[15:19] <seb128> ads20000, thx!
[15:19] <seb128> k, I need to step out of an hour, bbl
[15:21] <Trevinho> morning folks
[15:22] <jibel> morning Trevinho
[15:22] <jbicha> jibel: I assume you saw this comment: https://github.com/CanonicalLtd/desktop-design/issues/66#issuecomment-381917292
[15:22] <ubot5-ng> CanonicalLtd bug 66 in desktop-design "Visual design for first-login window" (comments: 21) [Closed] - Assigned to lyubomir-popov (lyubomir)
[15:22] <ubot5`> Error: Could not gather data from Launchpad for bug #66 (https://launchpad.net/bugs/66). The error has been logged
[15:23] <Trevinho> hey jibel
[15:23] <Trevinho> jbicha: hey, do you have some time to check the mutter MR and the gnome-shell MP?
[15:25] <jbicha> Trevinho: I think I already said before that the gnome-shell patch didn't seem very important
[15:26] <Trevinho> jbicha: not very important, but improves rendering in a good way, so I'd like to get in and Daniel too
[15:26] <Trevinho> but, as you prefer... As per mutter is quite needed not to get distracted by wrong bug reports
[15:26] <jibel> jbicha, no I didn't
[15:26] <jbicha> Trevinho: sorry to be a pain, why is the gnome-shell change not committed upstream yet?
[15:27] <Trevinho> jbicha: because you know how upstream timing is...
[15:27] <Trevinho> even simple crash fixes (https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-shell/merge_requests/79) take their time
[15:27] <ubot5-ng> GNOME bug (Merge request) 79 in gnome-shell "St cache texture destroy fixes" (comments: 0) [Opened]
[15:27] <jbicha> Trevinho: and the more patches we add that haven't been accepted in GNOME, the more uncomfortable I get
[15:29] <jbicha> upstream never actually released the gnome-shell & mutter 3.28.1 tarballs. It tempts me to believe in conspiracy theories … (but maybe just an accident here)
[15:33] <jbicha> Trevinho: could you rebase your mutter MP?
[15:41] <Trevinho> willcooke: do you have any option for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-themes/+bug/1762465 seeing how late we are for big changes?
[15:41] <ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1762465 in ubuntu-themes (Ubuntu) "Nautilus sidebar theming is confusing" [Medium,Confirmed]
[15:42] <Trevinho> (and seb128 too ^)
[15:42] <jbicha> Trevinho: I need to do a gnome-shell upload today anyway, maybe you could add more SRU style info to bug 1744001 ?
[15:42] <ubot5`> bug 1744001 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "Expanded panel menus don't fade out cleanly on close" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1744001
[15:42] <Trevinho> ok
[15:49] <Trevinho> jbicha: rebased
[15:49] <Trevinho> jbicha: should I keep unreleased or unstable?
[15:50] <willcooke> Trevinho, IMO you suggested change doesn't solve the problem.  Sorry.
[15:51] <Trevinho> willcooke: I agree, what about the last comment?
[15:51] <Trevinho> willcooke: we can't just change the two backgrounds at this point I think
[15:52] <willcooke> I'm not sure what you are saying is "too big a change".  What duflu is saying, I think, is to make the background colour for the icons the same as the text
[15:52] <willcooke> Are you saying changing the background colour on just the icons is a big change?
[15:52] <Trevinho> willcooke: I mean being past UIf...
[15:52] <willcooke> and would that have a knock on effect elsewhere?
[15:53] <willcooke> Trevinho, I'm not really sure.  I think that the "bug" is real and changing the background colours to match is a fix for that bug.
[15:53] <Trevinho> what I would do as an easy change is to just use the selected item as a single line, instead of using this case where it could be confusing
[15:53] <willcooke> Trevinho, I can email docs team and ask if you like?
[15:53] <willcooke> Trevinho, sorry, I can't imagine what that would look like, could you mock up in gimp, or is it quicker in code?
[15:56] <Trevinho> willcooke:  this https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/DwPJt7na/image.png
[15:56] <Trevinho> maybe with some slightly darker bg on the icon area to keep consistency
[15:59] <willcooke> Trevinho, this is more like what I had in mind:  https://imgur.com/a/MOnoshV
[15:59] <willcooke> So icon area b/g and text labels b/g are the same colour
[15:59] <Trevinho> well it's just what it has been ack'ed by design at the time :-D
[15:59] <willcooke> IMO that's wrong
[16:00] <willcooke> and I don't imagine they would have a problem with making it more like my mock up
[16:00] <willcooke> I can clear it with them if you would prefer
[16:00] <Trevinho> I see... Well, personally now i like the two shades of bg, so I'd prefer to go with the one I sent. wasn't it fixing the confusion for you?
[16:00] <willcooke> but IMO that's the correct fix
[16:00] <willcooke> no, sorry, it's has the same problem IMO
[16:01] <willcooke> it suggests that the test is a tree off of the icon
[16:01] <willcooke> rather than the same thing as the icon
[16:01] <Trevinho> Mh, maybe I got used to it, but I don't see it much :)
[16:02] <Trevinho> also, I for sure would have prerferred to know it before as getting to this look needed some hours :/
[16:03] <Trevinho> I'll see... bbl
[16:11] <jbicha> Trevinho: since we're in Final Freeze, can you add some SRU info to LP: #1748450 (which I guess you're handling in mutter now)
[16:11] <ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1748450 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu Bionic) "gnome-shell crashed with SIGTRAP in _g_log_abort() from g_log_default_handler() from default_log_handler(message="Connection to xwayland lost") from g_logv() from g_log() from <bug 1505409>" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1748450
[16:12] <jbicha> we can still ask for it to be 0-day SRU'd or even accepted before release but I think the Release Team would like to see info on the bug
[16:20] <willcooke> welp, that didn't work..  https://imgur.com/a/bewihKk
[16:27] <Laney> seb128: didrocks: inf_inity reviewed it - is the UBIQUITY_ONLY thing a proposal?
[16:27] <didrocks> Laney: I can make one, I just had a round of testing
[16:27] <didrocks> I'm powndering about that one vs activating back the old keybindings way
[16:28] <Laney> what's that?
[16:28] <didrocks> Laney: see the diff above
[16:28] <didrocks> basically: https://pastebin.com/raw/BnV43Gua
[16:28] <didrocks> quite hackish
[16:28] <didrocks> working, wonder how it copes with different languages though (compared to normal orca)
[16:30] <didrocks> I would appreciate a review a https://code.launchpad.net/~didrocks/ubiquity/oem-mode-telemetry/+merge/343781 based on jibel's bug report, if we plan to have another ubiquity upload
[16:36] <Laney> didrocks: oh yeah, that one looks good, can slip it in probably
[16:36] <didrocks> Laney: yeah, this one is reallky small ;) thx Laney!
[16:38] <Laney> didrocks: oh, but could you push a changelog entry please?
[16:38] <didrocks> Laney: sure, I'm always avoiding that before the approve on ubiquity due to conflicts
[16:38] <didrocks> doing that now
[16:41] <didrocks> Laney: done
[16:44] <seb128> Laney, yeah, I'm unsure to understand who we are trying to protect in the context of an ubiquity-dm session
[16:44] <seb128> hey Trevinho
[16:45] <Laney> seb128: protect?
[16:46] <seb128> why is -E a risk
[16:46] <seb128> in the context of going from ubiquity root to gsettings command as user
[16:46] <seb128> on https://code.launchpad.net/~seb128/ubiquity/gsettings-calls-environ/+merge/343829
[16:46] <seb128> anyway I don't have time to test what bits of the env are needed tonight
[16:46] <Laney> oh, it's probably more about excessive leakage possibly breaking things
[16:46] <seb128> so that's for tomorrow
[16:48] <willcooke> seb128, jbicha - is there a bug I can point to on LP for the ulimit issue>
[16:48] <willcooke> ?
[16:49] <seb128> willcooke, lp #1751460 was the deja-dup issue due to it
[16:49] <ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1751460 in deja-dup (Ubuntu Artful) "[regression] deja-dup-monitor crashed with SIGSEGV in Gigacage::<lambda()>::operator()" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1751460
[16:50] <willcooke> thx seb128
[16:51] <willcooke> jbicha, I found some comments from you pointing to this url, but it 404s now: https://anonscm.debian.org/git/pkg-webkit/webkit.git/tree/debian/NEWS
[16:51] <seb128> willcooke, https://salsa.debian.org/webkit-team/webkit/blob/wk2/unstable/debian/NEWS
[16:52] <willcooke> ah, nice one, thanks seb128
[16:53] <seb128> yw
[16:54] <seb128> jbicha, did you upload gnome-shell yet? I'm getting nervous that it's getting late and might not be accepte
[16:54] <seb128> d
[16:55] <seb128> Trevinho, willcooke, I think it's too late for those UI changes now, we missed that boat, it's SRU/.1 material at this point
[16:55] <seb128> .1 is the real LTS anyway, seeing the list of things we didn't have time to polish or land :/
[16:57] <willcooke> Laney, do you think this can be removed from the release notes now? "It's not possible to unlock encrypted external drives. Install libblockdev-crypto2 and restart (1757321)"  - that bug is fixed released but I don't know if users still need to install something else?
[16:57] <willcooke> seb128, ok
[16:57] <seb128> Laney, I can do an untested update to do --preserve-env=DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS untested today or test more tomorrow or let to somebody else to fix, preference?
[16:57] <seb128> willcooke, Laney, yes, that's fixed/deprecated and can be removed
[16:58] <willcooke> thx
[16:59] <seb128> on that note time for evening activities, at least until the little one is to bed, I'm back at least to deal with some backlog later
[17:00] <willcooke> see ya seb128
[17:06] <Laney> seb128: I just checked that, neither approach just works in the live session for me, you need to pass the session bus through from the desktop file
[17:12] <kenvandine> seb128, mind testing gedit from candidate channel?  it includes the translation fix for dialogs
[17:13] <oSoMoN> kenvandine, it works for me, gedit from candidate has translated dialogs
[17:13] <kenvandine> oSoMoN, yay
[17:13] <kenvandine> thanks!
[17:15] <Laney> seb128: I posted that, maybe you can review
[17:21] <willcooke> woot kenvandine oSoMoN
[17:49] <ads20000> seb128: or literally anyone able to reproduce the bug (and with a spare computer) could you please do what Ray asks here? https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-shell/issues/227#note_99693
[17:49] <ubot5-ng> GNOME bug 227 in gnome-shell "Login fails when preceded by incorrect password" (comments: 3) [Opened]
[17:49] <ubot5`> Error: Gnome bug 227 could not be found
[17:50] <ads20000> I don't have a spare computer to SSH in from to get the logs he needs to fix the bug
[17:50] <ads20000> Thanks! :)
[18:50] <willcooke> andyrock, just going through grabbing screenshots for the LivePatch setup in g-i-s and...
[18:51] <willcooke> ... it worked perfectly.  Nice job!
[18:53] <jbicha> seb128: I'm waiting on Trevinho to update the bugs with SRU style data. Or we could just wait for bug 1744001 until later (it's not been accepted upstream yet either)
[18:53] <ubot5`> bug 1744001 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "Expanded panel menus don't fade out cleanly on close" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1744001
[19:33] <seb128> jbicha, I don't think that patch tagging is a release matter :)
[19:34] <seb128> ads20000, I can ask duflu to have a look
[19:35] <Laney> ah MAN
[19:35] <Laney> seb128: I sort of understand the problem now!!!!!!!!!!!
[19:35] <Laney> the callback one
[19:35] <Laney> if you put import time; time.sleep(10) just before the misc.regain_privileges_save() it works
[19:36] <Laney> it's going and being asynchronous and getting the credentials after this regain call
[19:36] <Laney> at which point you're root again
[19:36] <Laney> and dbus is like HELL NO
[19:36] <seb128> Laney, oh?
[19:36] <Laney> make sense?
[19:36] <Laney> don't know how to fix it though, not atm
[19:36] <seb128> ah!
[19:36] <seb128> yes, it does
[19:38] <seb128> unsure either what would be a proper way to deal with that :/
[19:40] <seb128> Laney, your alternative ubiquity mp looks good to me, I was just sitting back at the computer for a few minutes so I can't test now but I do that tomorrow morning
[19:41]  * oSoMoN goes away for 3 days, happy release everyone!
[19:41] <seb128> but it should be fine so feel free to get that merged/uploaded
[19:41] <Laney> adam's going to look at it tomorrow
[19:42] <seb128> good, I should have it tested by the time you guys start working
[19:42] <Laney> thx for looking
[19:42] <Laney> I didn't try it in the dm session so that would be good
[19:42] <Laney> just live
[19:42] <seb128> k, well I do that first thing in the morning
[19:43] <seb128> Trevinho, can you please do whatever jbicha needs to unblock that gnome-shell upload?
[19:43] <jbicha> ok, I'll upload gnome-shell and let the Release Team figure it out
[19:43] <seb128> jbicha, why do you need the SRU style if we aim at getting the fix in the release?
[19:43] <seb128> jbicha, thx
[19:45] <jbicha> Release Team still needs to decide whether they want to accept or not, but I'll just let them do their job :)
[19:49] <Trevinho> yeah I will... I hate these things :-D
[19:59] <jbicha> seb128: I've uploaded mutter and gnome-shell now
[20:17] <Laney> seb128: i'm going for the evening I think, can't think of anything smart - maybe you and didrocks can
[20:17] <Laney> problem is that dconf fakes being synchronous but it's not really
[20:17] <Laney> night
[20:19]  * willcooke_ exits too
[20:20] <willcooke_> night all


[07:52] <dholbach> good morning
[16:25] <elacheche_anis> Hey, anybody from the loco council here?
[18:15] <skellat> elacheche_anis: What can I do for you?
[20:13] <belkinsa> For those who were at the vUDS for the LoCo Projects, who's idea was that?
[20:13] <skellat> belkinsa: Ping dpm (David Planella)
[20:13]  * skellat disappears for a little while
[20:14] <belkinsa> He's not on, is that his LP username?
[20:15] <belkinsa> nevermind


[01:29] <debfx> micahg: it turns the expired certificate error to a warning
[03:17] <littlegirl> Hey there, does anybody know if there is a list of entities used in the Kubuntu docs, and if so, where it is?
[03:23] <ScottK> Darkwing: ^^^
[03:23]  * littlegirl attempts to conjure Darkwing... (:
[09:06] <bulldog98> Riddell: nice post about arm isos
[09:07] <Riddell> bulldog98: I can't believe there is no mailing list to discuss arm on
[09:07] <Riddell> the precise images don't work for me and I have nowhere to discuss it except hope to find the right people on irc
[09:07] <bulldog98> you could ask for creating one
[09:08] <Riddell> maybe they have an internal canonical one but if so that should go (the team no longer exists in canonical anyway)
[09:09] <Riddell> mm there is an internal one just called "arm"
[09:09] <Riddell> maybe I'll subscribe and see if I get approved :)
[09:32] <Riddell> Tm_Tr: nice approach in #kubuntu :)
[09:33] <Tm_T> yeah
[09:33] <Tm_T> I have little intention to help someone who has that kind of attitude /:
[09:33] <Riddell> well aye, not much else can be done to appease someone grumpy with kmail, it really is a disappointment
[09:34] <Tm_T> well, "find in a message" works just fine here
[09:34] <Tm_T> but I assume he wants to find in messageS which is different thing
[09:35] <Riddell> yeah that'll be a nepomuk thing which is never very reliable
[09:35] <Riddell> although saying that find in file works great for me currently
[09:38] <Riddell> oh my goodness
[09:38] <Riddell> ksecrets works!
[09:38] <Tm_T> all in all, I have little to complain with Kmail in my use
[09:38] <Riddell> ubuntuone-control-panel-qt just works with it!
[09:38] <Tm_T> Riddell: nice
[09:38] <Riddell> oh, no it doesn't :(
[09:39] <Tm_T> Riddell: nice
[09:39]  * Tm_T hides
[09:40] <Riddell> it worked at startup but there's an error on login
[09:40] <Riddell> tsk
[10:46] <Riddell> afiestas: hey did you get sponsorship for UDS?
[10:46] <Riddell> I haven't seen a list yte
[10:46] <afiestas> Riddell: yes !
[10:47] <soee> hi
[10:47] <Riddell> afiestas: do you know anyone else?
[10:48] <afiestas> yes, drf and rbelem at least
[10:53] <shadeslayer> oh, drf is going to UDS? :D
[10:53] <shadeslayer> Riddell: how long does the arm pbuilder take to unpack and everything ?
[10:53] <Riddell> shadeslayer: no idea, I've never used it
[10:53] <shadeslayer> ok
[10:54] <Riddell> shadeslayer: what are you testing on arm?
[10:54] <shadeslayer> Riddell: digikam supposedly supplied a better patch, need to test and report it back upstream
[10:56] <Riddell> shadeslayer: I actually have an arm machine working for one day only if you need to build on precise
[10:57] <shadeslayer> Riddell: ok, for some reason ScottK's machine doesn't go further than : File extracted to: /var/cache/pbuilder/build//8395
[10:57] <shadeslayer> Riddell: digikam just needs to be built from git ...
[10:57] <Riddell> shadeslayer: mine might be useful for building without a pbuilder
[10:57] <shadeslayer> okay
[10:57] <ScottK> Are you sure you where patient enough?
[10:58] <shadeslayer> ScottK: 25 minutes and counting
[10:59] <ScottK> It does seem a bit stopped.
[11:00] <ScottK> What we can't see it file I/O, so I'd wait.
[11:00] <shadeslayer> well, I created it with pbuilder-dist precise create
[11:00] <shadeslayer> ok
[11:00] <ScottK> should work
[11:00] <Riddell> ScottK: what is the actual hardware you have there?
[11:05] <ScottK> It's Efika MX Smarttop.
[11:05] <Riddell> ScottK: netboot style devices?
[11:05] <Riddell> netbook
[11:05] <ScottK> No.
[11:06] <ScottK> This is a little box.
[11:06] <ScottK> It's an end user type device though, not just a bar board.
[11:07] <Riddell> ScottK: http://paulfedora.wordpress.com/2011/04/07/new-arrivals-genesi-efika-mx-smarttop/ ?
[11:07] <ScottK> Yes
[11:07] <Riddell> lovely
[11:08] <ScottK> Unfortunately, Ubuntu never supported them, so I either have to switch them to Debian or Linaro.
[11:08] <Riddell> ScottK: does Linaro support them?
[11:09] <ScottK> Yes
[11:09] <Riddell> surely Linaro works with the same things as ubuntu does?
[11:09] <Riddell> fabo: why are you not working upstream ^^ ? :)
[11:14] <fabo> Riddell: ScottK: for efika, complain to ogra/markos? :)
[11:15] <fabo> btw, Linaro producing hwpack on top of Ubuntu, it's just that Canonical doesn't support it
[11:15] <Riddell> fabo: what is hwpack?
[11:15] <Riddell> fabo: if my pandaboard isn't booting current ubuntu desktop images are there equivalent linaro precise desktop ones I could try?
[11:16] <ScottK> Ubuntu doesn't even carry the subarch (mx5) anymore.
[11:17] <fabo> Riddell: hardware pack, meta tarball that contains bootloader/kernel/blobs if needed
[11:17] <fabo> Riddell: yes, we support panda and have a ubuntu desktop image
[11:18] <fabo> ScottK: dropped recently? I raised concerns for i.MX51 but not i.MX53...
[11:18] <ScottK> Dunno about 53. The boxes I have are 51.
[11:20] <Riddell> fabo: what is the equivalent of BIOS on a pandaboard called?
[11:20] <Riddell> firmware?
[11:26] <fabo> ScottK: i.MX51 isn't supported by FSL, that's why it was dropped
[11:26] <fabo> Riddell: the bootloader (u-boot or uefi)
[11:30]  * shadeslayer goes off to look at the new L4T release
[11:31] <Riddell> fabo: that's the hardware bit?
[11:31] <Riddell> ScottK: L4T?
[11:37] <Riddell> whoopsie 28918     1  0 08:12 ?        00:00:00 whoopsie  whatever is that?
[11:38] <tsdgeos> whoopsie - Ubuntu crash database submission daemon
[11:39] <shadeslayer> Riddell: linux 4 tegra
[11:39] <shadeslayer> uh
[11:39] <shadeslayer> Riddell: that was probably because of me : Sorry, command-not-found has crashed! Please file a bug report at:
[11:39] <shadeslayer> https://bugs.launchpad.net/command-not-found/+filebug
[11:39] <shadeslayer> Please include the following information with the report:
[11:40] <Riddell> shadeslayer: one of your root kits is it? :)
[11:40] <shadeslayer> :D
[11:41] <shadeslayer> seems like command-not-found doesn't work on armhf :)
[11:42] <ulysses> !find libg2c.so
[11:45] <shadeslayer> ScottK: I think my pbuilder is stuck :)
[11:58] <Riddell> yofel: I packaged ksecrets today and I see you did recently too
[11:58] <Riddell> yofel: I've put it in experimental ppa too, I think it lacks the .dbg package compared to yours but that's all
[11:59] <Riddell> yofel: I'm going to post to the ksecrets list to get some answers
[12:08] <fabo> Riddell: no, it's software bits
[12:12] <Riddell> fabo: so what's the term for the hardware bits?
[12:18] <mischasworld> hello
[12:18] <Riddell> hi mischasworld
[12:19] <mischasworld> I recently updated to precise kubuntu beta, suspend to ram via settings in kde settings is not working, if i call pm-suspend via sudo its working any iedas to fix this?
[12:20] <Riddell> user questions in #kubuntu
[12:21] <mischasworld> i thoughts ist devel cause its still beta I'll move ;-) thanks
[12:22] <Tm_T> well, +1 versions are supported on #ubuntu+1 usually (:
[12:22] <apol> do you guys know about any apt/sources.list files parser?
[12:25] <apol> or do you know where should I ask?
[12:27] <Riddell> apol: mvo and glatzor know about package managers in ubuntu
[12:27] <Riddell> apol: but I think we all just fork and run software-properties
[12:28] <BluesKaj> hi all
[12:29] <apol> hm
[12:29] <apol> Riddell: can you point me to the softwareproperties source code?
[12:40] <yofel> Riddell: well, I put it in experimental a while ago, but if you made a proper package that's great
[12:41] <yofel> does yours at least work right?
[12:41] <yofel> apol: bzr co lp:software-properties
[12:42] <apol> hm thanks
[12:43] <yofel> apol: or https://code.launchpad.net/software-properties
[12:46] <apol> :)
[12:47] <Riddell> yofel: I think it works as well as I can expect but the only app I know that uses it gives an error
[12:54] <shadeslayer> Riddell: tp-qt needs rebuilding, they deleted the older farsight package, could you upload it?
[12:55] <shadeslayer> ScottK: I'm killing the pbuilder, unless you want to investigate
[13:07] <shadeslayer> Riddell: do you have special fans or sth cooling your pandaboard? :D
[13:08] <shadeslayer> because it's about to become hot ...
[13:12] <Riddell> shadeslayer: you can see it here http://blogs.kde.org/node/4546
[13:12] <Riddell> shadeslayer: arm chips don't become hot, they just stay slow
[13:13] <shadeslayer> oh sweet, looking
[13:15]  * shadeslayer has like a bazillion things to do on his TODO
[13:24] <Riddell> shadeslayer: only a bazillion?  you're lucky!
[13:24] <shadeslayer> \o/
[13:26] <Riddell> shadeslayer: let me know when that digikam build is done, I've a few tests to run on that machine (it should finish any day now)
[13:26] <shadeslayer> will do
[13:27] <shadeslayer> it's at 4% ... going to take a bit of time
[14:20] <Riddell> how's this? http://blogs.kde.org/node/4547
[14:20] <Riddell> Kubuntu and the state of free consumer software
[14:24] <tazz> Riddell, +1 for the post -1 for the name change.
[14:24] <apachelogger> Riddell: good read, I actually shall poke you later today about that
[14:25] <apachelogger> also sorry for dropping of the intarwebs
[14:25] <tazz> "kubuntu" as a brand has had momentum behind it.
[14:25] <Riddell> apachelogger: I'm glad you climbed back up
[14:25] <Riddell> tazz: yes there are advantages to staying with the current name too, it's mostly down to what canonical will allow to be done with their trademark
[14:25] <apachelogger> yofel: yes, I plan on filing the uifreeze exception request today and hopefully upload tomorrow
[14:26] <tazz> Riddell, ok.
[14:26] <apachelogger> yofel: IMHO we should stuff the wallpaper into workspace
[14:26] <apachelogger> oh actually that doesn't work ^^
[14:26] <yofel> why not?
[14:26] <apachelogger> cuz plymouth needs the image to be in the plymouth image folder
[14:27] <yofel> ah k
[14:27] <apachelogger> so unless we stuff the plymouth artwork into the kdm theme folder which is fuggly we have a problem
[14:27] <yofel> but still, KDM should use the same one
[14:27] <apachelogger> though that might in fact be the best bet here
[14:27] <apachelogger> otherwise we might go oversized
[14:27] <apachelogger> oh
[14:27] <apachelogger> better yet
[14:27] <yofel> or we symlink the plymouth background to the kdm folder?
[14:27] <apachelogger> someone please package the artwork from kde svn
[14:27] <apachelogger> make it a seperate package
[14:27] <apachelogger> yofel: yes
[14:28] <apachelogger> oh well
[14:28] <apachelogger> I'll have to muse about it at uni
[14:28] <apachelogger> yofel: problem is that plymouth has one resolution though we should totally support all resolutions of the background (via extra package)
[14:28] <apachelogger> for plymouth I use 800x600
[14:29] <apol> Riddell: do you know if it's very harmful to call apt-add-repository -y from the user interface? what kind of interaction is expected?
[14:29] <apachelogger> since that image ends up in the initramfs and thus directly affects boot time
[14:30] <Riddell> apol: I'm afraid I don't know, best ask mvo
[14:31] <georgelappies___> hi all, where can I get a list comparing the changes in kubuntu 11.10 to kubuntu 12.04?
[14:31] <apol> Riddell: what channel?
[14:32] <apachelogger> #ubuntu-devel
[14:32] <apachelogger> apol: btw, I think that will not work ... e.g. one query would be if there already is a repo with that name, whether it should be replaced
[14:32] <apachelogger> (or so I'd imagine anyway)
[14:32] <apachelogger> apol: I think libqapt can do the same stuff, or at least I requested it like ages ago :)
[14:33] <apol> hmmm...
[14:33] <apachelogger> anyhow ... off to uni
[14:43] <Riddell> jussi: you're grumbling about LibreOffice?  Time to explore Calligra?
[14:47] <fabo> Riddell: well, the hardware bits part is a data storage device. could be flash memory (sdcard), etc...
[14:56] <jussi> Riddell: Ive tried calligra not so long ago, has it changed much? it was missing a big stack of features, including a format painter, proper handling of MS office formats  nad several other things I dont remember
[14:57] <Riddell> jussi: what's a format painter?
[14:58] <Riddell> jussi: MS Office format importing is reputed to be better than LibreOffice (since it's what KO spends makes its money doing) but I've not done any formal testing
[14:58] <jussi> Riddell: click a place where you like the formatting, click format painter, highlight other stuff you want the first places formatting to go
[14:58] <jussi> Riddell: but can calligra export yet?
[14:59] <Riddell> I don't know, I've never had any need or desire to export to MS Office format and lots to not do so
[14:59] <jussi> hehe, I guess you dont send much to people who use ms office.
[15:00] <Riddell> I do I just make a point in using open formats
[15:00] <Riddell> .odt and .rtf work fine, as do pdf html and ascii
[15:01] <bulldog98> jussi: the export works quite good from what I heard, but I haven’t tried it
[15:01] <jussi> Riddell: I guess its pretty simple, I need the option to be there, its not a choice I have
[15:01] <jussi> do we have a ppa for onewiric thats reasonably stable?
[15:02] <jussi> I dont mind giving it a go again
[15:02] <Riddell> jussi: why?  what can .doc do that the above formats can't?
[15:05] <jussi> Riddell: It is the required format for me to send to certain people.   I always make a point of saying that I require standard non-vendor-specific formats but I realise that approach often doesn't work
[15:07] <jussi> Riddell: anyway, do we have a PPA that I can grab it from for oneiric?
[15:09] <Riddell> jussi: Kubuntu Beta Backports
[15:11] <jussi> Riddell: thanks, installing now
[15:12] <Riddell> jussi: no doubt you will find lots of problems but I'm curious to know what they are from someone who obviously uses office stuff more than me
[15:13] <Riddell> and someone who is finding problems with our current offering :)
[15:13] <jussi> Riddell: :)
[15:14]  * jussi uses libreoffice on a daily basis
[15:22] <apachelogger> bulldog98, jussi: export of ms office formats does not even work reliably in LO
[15:22] <apachelogger> particularly when loads of weird formatting is in the picture
[15:22] <jussi> apachelogger: works for me
[15:22] <jussi> (most of the time)
[15:22] <apachelogger> well yes, so does calligra from what I have heared ;)
[15:22] <Riddell> yes it's a problematic thing to do for sure, MS Office crashing after opening a file made by LO isn't nice either although less blame on LO :)
[15:23] <bulldog98> apachelogger: sure which is the reason, why I don’t use that format :P
[15:23] <apachelogger> import is the most questionable thing there ... as ms office has a shitload of features and to properly reverse engineer the crap you'd need an appropriate sample base
[15:23] <Riddell> I've had trouble with LO on accounts, .ods spreadsheet files that won't open in LO but do in calligra
[15:23] <apachelogger> so by any value LO should perform better there
[15:24] <apachelogger> Riddell: that's gambling, from what I know neither completely implements the odf standard
[15:24] <apachelogger> (or add own stuff)
[15:24] <Riddell> apachelogger: yeah but LO should at least open its own .ods files!
[15:25] <apachelogger> Riddell: sure, if LO was trivial software :P
[15:25] <jussi> Riddell: I dont even have an rtf save format?
[15:25] <Riddell> jussi: dunno that seems surprising but maybe not, #calligra will know
[15:27] <apachelogger> my nano is broken
[15:27] <apachelogger> nano--
[15:28] <Riddell> real geeks use emacs
[15:30] <jussi> Riddell: so apart from the export issue and lack of format painter it seems to do everything I need so far, but for me to switch I need at least that export to .doc/.docx
[15:30]  * jussi tries out the presentations tool
[15:31] <apachelogger> Riddell: yah, and real hackers use vim :P
[15:31] <bulldog98> apachelogger: +1
[15:32] <Riddell> jussi: see I really don't get the need to export to a format that limits your user base like .docx
[15:33] <Riddell> and which is very objectionable from an ethical view
[15:33] <Riddell> but I'd have thought the technical limitations were enough reasons not to use it
[15:34] <jussi> Riddell: I see no reason to not provide an optional plugin for those who need it
[15:36] <Riddell> jussi: except that it's very difficult to code!
[15:36] <jussi> Riddell: but Libreoffice has it.... ?
[15:37] <Riddell> jussi: and they had the large resources of Sun behind them
[15:37] <Riddell> will be interesting to see if they can maintain it without that
[15:37] <jussi> Riddell: its open source, can we not borrow it?
[15:38] <Riddell> jussi: ha ha no
[15:38] <Riddell> ever tried looking at the libreoffice codebase?  it's not pretty
[15:39] <Riddell> when openoffice was first made public the koffice response was "great we can just take all the good bits of code" which was nonsense at the time and has proved to be so
[15:39] <jjesse> but Riddell didn't you just argue on your blog for wider adoption, need to support MS Office .docx/.doc for wider addoption
[15:39] <jussi> jjesse: ++
[15:40] <jjesse> its hard to ask for wider adoption and not support what more people use
[15:40] <Riddell> jjesse: I'm an idealist, I take the view that the world should start using standards and stop using crappy vendor-specific formats that maintain a monopoly
[15:40] <jjesse> almost called them wider people :)
[15:40] <CIA-42> [kubuntu-default-settings] Harald Sitter<EMAIL_ADDRESS>*<EMAIL_ADDRESS>* lib/plymouth/themes/kubuntu-logo/kubuntu-logo.grub make grub background reall really dark
[15:40] <jjesse> that might be fine but more people won't adopt if they can't use what they use for work, etc
[15:40] <Riddell> and as we've been discussing, LO and Calligra do support MS Office formats and have done for years
[15:41] <jussi> does this go both ways? http://odf-converter.sourceforge.net/
[15:41] <Riddell> likewise MS Office support OpenDocument format, this debate should not be relevant any time this decade
[15:44] <CIA-42> [kubuntu-dev-tools] Harald Sitter<EMAIL_ADDRESS>*<EMAIL_ADDRESS>* (bin/plymouth-rgb-normalizer debian/changelog) Add plymouth-rgb-normalizer to normalize 0-255 to plymouth 0.0-1.0 ranges
[15:45] <CIA-42> [kubuntu-dev-tools] Harald Sitter<EMAIL_ADDRESS>*<EMAIL_ADDRESS>* (10 files in 4 dirs) Added klearppa to clear out the packages in a PPA
[15:46] <jussi> Riddell: small annoyance, lack of borders on the slide in stage's document sidebar
[15:46] <CIA-42> [kubuntu-default-settings] Harald Sitter<EMAIL_ADDRESS>*<EMAIL_ADDRESS>* lib/plymouth/themes/kubuntu-logo/plymouth-rgb-normalizer.rb moved rgb normalizer to kubuntu-dev-tools
[15:49] <apachelogger> can someone please run du -h /lib/plymouth/themes/kubuntu-logo
[15:49] <bulldog98> apachelogger: 840K
[15:50] <jussi> jussi@squirrel:~$ du -h /lib/plymouth/themes/kubuntu-logo
[15:50] <jussi> 84K     /lib/plymouth/themes/kubuntu-logo
[15:50] <apachelogger> jussi: thx
[15:50] <apachelogger> so with the new stuff it is 10 times bigger ^^
[15:50] <jussi> apachelogger: thats oneiric
[15:50] <apachelogger> ^ the art of deduction
[15:56] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: 844K for me
[15:57] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: stop bloating my install!
[15:58] <apachelogger> go sip a cuppa
[15:58] <shadeslayer> did that an hour ago
[15:58] <apachelogger> clearly didn't help
[15:58] <shadeslayer> no more tea for me or I get supercharged and don't sleep properly
[15:59] <apachelogger> sleep is for children
[16:00] <shadeslayer> no, sleep is for when you have to go to uni the next day
[16:01] <tsdgeos> shadeslayer: sleep is what you do at uni ;-)
[16:01] <shadeslayer> that's what I thought as well, apparently the professors don't like that and refuse to give you attendance
[16:01] <apachelogger> oh, that is also a very well made point
[16:01]  * apachelogger feels sleepy actually
[16:01] <apachelogger> we are talking about copyright
[16:02] <apachelogger> friends! what's with the udd branches alread?
[16:02] <apachelogger> Riddell: I do not get the plymouth branch at all
[16:02] <apachelogger> it has debian/patches *and* in-source changes
[16:02] <apachelogger> who does the educated uddd work with that?
[16:03] <Riddell> apachelogger: that sounds like a mess up by someone
[16:03] <apachelogger> slangasek is to blame
[16:03] <apachelogger> anywho, I don't need the patches anyway
[16:03] <apachelogger> was just wondering, never seen that
[16:04] <apachelogger> Oo
[16:04] <apachelogger> not even bzr-buildpackage can handle that
[16:04] <Riddell> it does suggest that udd branches might not be a great way to work
[16:05] <Riddell> but my idea of changing udd to be debian/ branch only imports does not have much traction
[16:05] <apachelogger> too bad
[16:22] <ScottK> shadeslayer: OK.  I'd try it again.  Maybe it was a heisenbug.
[16:23]  * shadeslayer didn't know that term
[16:23] <apachelogger> u fail
[16:23] <shadeslayer> ...
[16:31] <Riddell> hi mgraesslin
[16:31] <mgraesslin> hi Riddell
[16:31] <Riddell> mgraesslin: that kmenueditor branch you have seems to be missing some .ui files
[16:32] <shadeslayer> ScottK: heh, still gets stuck
[16:32] <mgraesslin> Riddell: possible
[16:32] <ScottK> No idea.  Try to build something smaller and see if it's your pbuilder setup somehow.
[16:32] <shadeslayer> uh, I just try to login to it
[16:32] <ScottK> That's how I built digikam on that same box the other day.
[16:32] <mgraesslin> Riddell: I will work on it tomorrow and on Friday, so best ignore it till then
[16:32] <ScottK> OK.
[16:33] <shadeslayer> ScottK: http://paste.kde.org/444134/
[16:33] <shadeslayer> and then nothing, just gets stuck
[16:33] <mgraesslin> Riddell: and concerning your blog post: yes kubuntu needs a better name :-)
[16:33] <Riddell> mgraesslin: I'd use kwin but I hear that's taken :)
[16:34] <shadeslayer> I'll make a new one, maybe somethig went wrong
[16:34] <mgraesslin> Riddell: just find a better name for kwin then :-)
[16:34] <tsdgeos> kde-window-manager
[16:34] <tsdgeos> :D
[16:34] <mgraesslin> no, that's quite bad
[16:35] <shadeslayer> kooboon2 :D
[16:35] <yofel> kwinman
[16:37] <ScottK> shadeslayer: You're logged in, but have no shell.
[16:37] <shadeslayer> whut
[16:37] <shadeslayer> I don't understand how is that even possible :S
[16:38] <ScottK> shadeslayer: Look at /home/hooks/C10shell
[16:38] <ScottK> Log in with that hook.
[16:38] <shadeslayer> okie
[16:41] <Peace-> but Riddell i was reading your post ... you want release only kde software
[16:41] <Peace-> this is utopia
[16:42] <Peace-> and the result is : kubuntu can't compete with ubuntu
[16:42] <Peace-> ubuntu uses qt and gtk
[16:42] <Riddell> yes, I'm an idealist like that
[16:42] <Riddell> fortunately qt is all we need :)
[16:43] <Peace-> nope
[16:43] <Peace-> ying yang
[16:43] <Peace-> middle is the true path
[16:43] <Riddell> that's why we need to be part of the ubuntu project
[16:43] <Riddell> lots of gtk in the archives if that's what does it for you
[16:44] <Peace-> i am not a normal user Riddell
[16:44] <tsimpson> I think even Canonical realise that Qt just has the superior API
[16:44] <Peace-> the normal user wants somethign that works
[16:44] <shadeslayer> Peace-: that's implying that power users want something that's broken
[16:45] <Peace-> just only changin rekonq with chromium would be fine
[16:45] <Peace-> shadeslayer: nope
[16:45] <Peace-> shadeslayer: for example i am using beta software because i know  it has bugs
[16:45] <Peace-> and i am ok with that
[16:46] <Peace-> and i know where i can fidn a solution
[16:46] <Peace-> so it not broken
[16:46] <Peace-> it's just fun
[16:47] <tsimpson> bugs _are_ things that are broken
[16:47] <tsimpson> things that don't work properly, things that don't do what they're expected to do, things that don't do things well
[16:47] <Peace-> well krita crashes when you does ctl z 3 time
[16:48] <tsdgeos> that's a bug
[16:48] <tsdgeos> all software has bugs
[16:48] <tsdgeos> Peace-: if you report it i'm even guessing it's a fairly easy one to fix
[16:48] <tsimpson> not all software
[16:48] <tsdgeos> tsimpson: all software
[16:48] <Peace-> tsimpson: i am often on krita channel
[16:49] <Peace-> well even firefox has bugs
[16:49] <Peace-> but less than rekonq
[16:49] <tsimpson> not every single program ever developed has bugs
[16:49] <yofel> Peace-: I believe we still ship the firefox installer?
[16:49] <tsimpson> the larger the code-base, and more complex the program, then yes. you're more likely to have bugs. but not _all_ software
[16:49] <Peace-> yofel: it's always a pain
[16:49] <tsdgeos> tsimpson: are you a developer?
[16:50] <Peace-> the point is releasing what works better
[16:50] <tsimpson> I develop lots of things, so yeah
[16:50] <apachelogger> what's the topic?
[16:50] <Peace-> browser is the most important stuff
[16:50] <tsdgeos> tsimpson: i can't believe you are defending that there is software out there without bugs :D
[16:50] <yofel> apachelogger: whether software has bugs
[16:51] <Peace-> failing on browser = failing distro
[16:51] <apachelogger> Peace-: kubuntu does not compete with ubuntu, we do not target OEM deployments
[16:51] <tsimpson> tsdgeos: no, I'm saying that not every single piece of software in the universe has bugs
[16:51] <tsimpson> int main() { return 0; } // no bugs there
[16:51] <tsimpson> there, I'm a genius
[16:51] <apachelogger> ehm
[16:51] <apachelogger> that is wrong
[16:51] <tsdgeos> see
[16:51] <apachelogger> it implies that the software that uses the software has no bugs
[16:51] <yofel> tsimpson: I believe that depends on the compiler you're using :D
[16:51] <tsdgeos> you missed two parameters in main
[16:51] <apachelogger> or the implementation of the C standard for that matter
[16:52] <apachelogger> in our case the eglibc
[16:52] <yofel> tsdgeos: well, gcc would compile that fine though
[16:52] <tsimpson> well, I can write an application in assembly that doesn't have a main(), and just exits with 0
[16:52] <apachelogger> the simplest of all programs still can have bugs as even that software would depend on the hardware doing what it is supposed to
[16:52] <tsimpson> (assuming the kernel is not broken ;)
[16:53] <yofel> if the hardware isn't defined to be correct, we don't even have to discuss this...
[16:53] <tsimpson> my point is that "bugs" are not something that you should just expect are a fact of life
[16:53] <apachelogger> that is to say, the more aggregated code is used in a program the more likely it has more bugs
[16:54] <apachelogger> tsimpson: well, it is for us as we build highly complicated systems
[16:55] <tsimpson> apachelogger: I mean more from an ideological point of view, not necessarily a practical point of view
[16:55] <apachelogger> well, the target of any developer is to have 0 bugs
[16:56] <apachelogger> that is however not very practical for anything ^^
[16:58] <apachelogger> Riddell: new plymouth packages moving towards kubuntu-experimental for precise
[16:58] <apachelogger> everyone please be testing
[16:59] <yofel> \o/
[16:59] <apachelogger> also kubuntu-text this time
[16:59] <Riddell> apachelogger: beta 2 freeze tomorrow afternoon, do you expect to make that?
[17:00] <shadeslayer> ahhhh
[17:00] <apachelogger> Riddell: probably not
[17:00] <shadeslayer> ScottK: ok figured it out
[17:00] <apachelogger> Riddell: that way we can also keep it fresh for release ;)
[17:00] <Riddell> apachelogger: still things to fix?
[17:00] <shadeslayer> it wasn't stuck, it just doesn't show the shebang and the host
[17:00] <apachelogger> Riddell: not really, but I'd rather have it tested
[17:00] <apachelogger> codewise everything should be fine
[17:01] <apachelogger> plus we need to figure out how to push the proper wallpaper into kdm and we need to get ksplash-qml on the CD
[17:01] <apachelogger> or someone converts the splash from qml to the ksplashx thing ^^
[17:02] <yofel> ksplashqml is already in kde-workspace-bin, so on CD
[17:02] <apachelogger> groovy
[17:03] <yofel> only the example QML theme isn't
[17:03] <apachelogger> ah, perfect
[17:05] <Riddell> apachelogger: so what do we need to test?  k-d-s and plymouth once they're compiled?
[17:05] <apachelogger> aye
[17:05] <apachelogger> grub should be readable now
[17:05] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: yay
[17:06] <apachelogger> also that stuff needs major refactoring, I have no idea where the grub frontend colors are from, but they seem to be pulled from somewhere implicitly
[17:06] <yofel> the wallpaper setting is a one line thing in the theme which sets the wallpaper used.
[17:06] <apachelogger> or my system is silly
[17:06] <shadeslayer> ScottK: https://launchpad.net/~rohangarg/+archive/experimental/+files/kile_2.1.0-1ubuntu2~ppa1.dsc << Kile now recommends texlive-latex-extra
[17:06] <apachelogger> yofel: that implies the wallpaper is a kde wallpaper package :P
[17:06] <ScottK> shadeslayer: Ask me tomorrow on #ubuntu-motu.
[17:06] <apachelogger> with desktop file and all that
[17:06] <shadeslayer> sure
[17:06] <yofel> apachelogger: right
[17:07] <yofel> now the question is whether we switch out the whole default theme with the one from svn, or add it besides ariya
[17:08] <yofel> I doubt we have enough space for both though
[17:10] <apachelogger> why? we only have one file
[17:10] <apachelogger> of 700k
[17:10] <yofel> oh, right
[17:20] <Peace-> apachelogger: if kubuntu can't compete with ubuntu or other distro what is the purpuse of this distro fun?
[17:20] <Riddell> we do compete with ubuntu desktop (and cooperate too)
[17:20] <Riddell> ScottK: you get a name drop by jono in the ubuntu-uk podcast!
[17:21] <Riddell> apachelogger: his point was we don't compete with canonical's needs because they do OEM
[17:21] <ScottK> Ruh. Roh.
[17:23] <ScottK> shadeslayer: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/soqt/1.5.0-2 might be worthwhile to work on now that you have access to arm box.
[17:23] <shadeslayer> awesome
[17:24] <shadeslayer> ScottK: I'm done for stuff this week, I'll fit it in for next week
[17:24] <ScottK> OK
[17:24]  * shadeslayer has to finish writing tests
[17:24] <Peace-> Riddell: btw kde media center can be replaced by unity 2d tv
[17:24] <Peace-> it's always qt no?
[17:24] <shadeslayer> ^ I'm looking to try p-m-c once I get my raspberry pi :D
[17:25] <Riddell> Peace-: it's not KDE
[17:27] <Riddell> shadeslayer: this is what you've been using? http://www.stgraber.org/2012/02/03/ever-wanted-an-armel-or-armhf-container-on-an-x86-machine-its-now-possible-with-lxc-in-ubuntu-precise/
[17:27] <shadeslayer> nope
[17:28] <shadeslayer> Riddell: pbuilder-dist precise armel create : Works only on sid
[17:28] <Riddell> shadeslayer: ah hah.  this one of stgraber's seems worth looking into
[17:28] <shadeslayer> why not just fix pbuilder-dist ?
[17:28] <shadeslayer> isnt' that easier
[17:28] <Riddell> three copy and paste commands is easier than "fix" :)
[17:28] <shadeslayer> or rather, why not fix a familiar tool rather than introduce a new one ? :D
[17:29] <Riddell> don't ask me that's not my blog
[17:29] <shadeslayer> :P
[17:29] <shadeslayer> well ... pbuilder-dist doesn't do armhf yet
[17:33] <shadeslayer> left a comment :D
[17:35] <delight> I got kmix crashing a lot in 12.04  ... i think it came with the upgrades to kde 4.8.1 .. as with the beta1 of precise i didn't experience those frequently crashes ...
[17:35] <delight> do others have the same problem ?
[17:36] <yofel> the only way I got kmix to crash recently (yesterday) was by killing pulseaudio. Otherwise it works fine
[17:37] <delight> yofel: thnx for the feedback
[17:38] <delight> I'll have to invest some more into it
[17:38] <yofel> delight: if you get a crash please file a bug with drkonqi
[17:38] <delight> investigate
[17:39] <delight> drkonqi is not coming up after kmix crash ... do i need to install some additional package ?
[17:41] <yofel> delight: how do you know that it crashed then?
[17:41] <delight> yofel: ok ... got it ... that dialog with the option to restart kmix is drkonqi ... my bad :-D
[17:42] <delight> never looked at whats its called :-D
[17:42] <yofel> ah, ok :)
[17:49] <Riddell> hi littlegirl
[17:52] <littlegirl> Riddell: Hey there. (:
[17:53] <Riddell> littlegirl: welcome to the Kubuntu contributor community :)
[17:54] <littlegirl> Riddell: Thanks - I wish I hadn't arrived at such a hectic time with that deadline looming. (:
[17:54] <Riddell> we always have deadlines
[17:54] <Riddell> if we didn't we'd be debian :)
[17:55] <littlegirl> Riddell: I know I'm doing something wrong with Bazaar because my pushes seem to be trying to push every commit I've ever made rather than just the latest one. Can I past my steps into Pastebin and have you look at them and tell me which one could be causing that and how to fix it?
[17:55] <littlegirl> LOL
[17:55] <yofel> well, bzr push will push all differences between the original branch and yours - meaning all commits
[17:55] <yofel> do you want something else?
[17:56] <yofel> *all your commits
[17:56] <littlegirl> I think so. I would like to push just my most current commit since each time I push I propose the push for merging, and once they're accepted, they shouldn't be pushed again, right?
[17:56]  * littlegirl is not a Bazaar user, but an SVN user. (:
[17:57] <Riddell> that's fine
[17:57] <Riddell> if they're accepted elsewhere they're all good
[17:57] <littlegirl> Okay. (:
[17:57] <Riddell> you can also merge from the main branch to get things more up to date
[17:58] <littlegirl> I have no idea what that means. (:
[17:58] <Riddell> littlegirl: pastebin   bzr info
[18:00] <littlegirl> http://paste.ubuntu.com/893971/
[18:01] <littlegirl> I should probably have numbered them. (:
[18:01] <Riddell> littlegirl: that's not bzr info
[18:01] <littlegirl> Oh, you want me to do bzr info and paste the result into pastebin?
[18:01] <Riddell> yep
[18:02] <Riddell> also paste.kde.org >> paste.ubuntu.com
[18:03] <littlegirl> http://paste.ubuntu.com/893977/
[18:03] <littlegirl> What does that do?
[18:04] <littlegirl> paste.kde.org: command not found
[18:04] <Riddell> tell me where your repository thinks it is in relation to the others
[18:05] <Riddell> it's a website not a command :)
[18:05] <littlegirl> That's the second paste above: http://paste.ubuntu.com/893977/
[18:05] <Riddell> yep
[18:05] <Riddell> so now, what do you want to do?
[18:05] <Riddell> bzr diff  does that show committed stuff?
[18:06] <Riddell> bzr push  will send it all to lp:~littlergirl/kubuntu-docs/basics
[18:06] <Riddell> all the commits so far
[18:06] <littlegirl> I'm not sure. I make all the changes to a document and then do one commit to my local working copy that covers all those changes to the one document. Next I push to the server and propose the push for merging. Is that how it ought to be done?
[18:07] <Riddell> there is no ought, whatever makes it easieest for you and the reviewer
[18:07] <Riddell> but that seems a sensible way yes
[18:07] <Riddell> so what's the problem?
[18:08] <littlegirl> All of that seems to go smoothly at my end, but the email I get back from Launchpad seems to contain every commit I ever did rather than just the most recent one, and the person who reviews my proposals for merging is becoming confused because of duplicates.
[18:08] <Riddell> yes it will contain all the commits since you did your initial bzr branch
[18:08] <littlegirl> I'm brand new to Bazaar and DocBook, so I'm just following the steps I was given. I was hoping someone could look them over and tell me which of them are wrong and what changes I should make to them. (:
[18:09] <littlegirl> Riddell: Is that expected?
[18:09] <Riddell> if you want to isolate some changes you can do a new bzr branch lp:kubuntu-docs  and do separate changes there
[18:09] <Riddell> you could also do a new  bzr branch lp:~littlergirl/kubuntu-docs/basics  that'll give you a new branch starting on the state of your basics branch
[18:09] <littlegirl> Riddell: Is that how pushes are usually done? Doing a new bzr branch before doing a push?
[18:10] <Riddell> when you commit to that and ask for a merge request you can ask for it relative to the basics branch
[18:10] <Riddell> bzr is infinitely flexible, you can do whatever you like
[18:10] <Riddell> you can also do it svn style with just  bzr co lp:~littlergirl/kubuntu-docs/basics
[18:10] <littlegirl> This is the command I was given, and the one I used: bzr branch lp:kubuntu-docs
[18:10] <Riddell> then bzr commit sends it back to lp:~littlergirl/kubuntu-docs/basics
[18:10] <littlegirl> Do I just do that one each time to start with a fresh branch?
[18:11] <Riddell> littlegirl: yes that's keep everything nice and separate
[18:11] <littlegirl> Riddell: Oh, thank you! That should make life easier for whoever has to review what I submit. (:
[18:12] <Riddell> littlegirl: who has been reviewing your stuff?
[18:12] <jjesse> me
[18:12] <littlegirl> Riddell: jjesse
[18:12]  * littlegirl waves at jjesse
[18:12] <jjesse> sorry been away
[18:13] <littlegirl> That's okay. I just hope I'm not causing extra work at a time where you guys must be frantic.
[18:13] <Riddell> he's a nice guy is that jjesse
[18:13] <jjesse> no it isn't
[18:13] <littlegirl> LOL
[18:13] <jjesse> not extra delay :)
[18:13] <littlegirl> I have a few other questions. (:
[18:13] <jjesse> keep asking
[18:13] <littlegirl> Which of these ways of doing a plain link is correct: http://paste.ubuntu.com/894004/
[18:14] <littlegirl> The text link is correct, because I see that one used all over the place in the docs. (:
[18:14] <Riddell> why don't you just use that then?
[18:15] <littlegirl> Riddell: To save a few bytes in a large document, like the development.xml doc that I recently did, for instance. (:
[18:15] <Riddell> a few bytes don't matter
[18:16] <littlegirl> Also, is there a list of entities used in Kubuntu docs, and if so, where is it?
[18:16] <jjesse> yes there
[18:16] <jjesse> there is a list of entities
[18:16] <jjesse> sorry i'm slow to respond its work hours for me
[18:16] <jjesse> look in /libs i think
[18:16] <littlegirl> Oh! Sorry to disturb you while at work!
[18:16] <jjesse> i think its kde- something in that file
[18:17] <jjesse> kde-menus-c.ent
[18:17] <Riddell> littlegirl: if you don't get an answer to a technical question like that in here I think there is #ubuntu-doc as well
[18:17] <jjesse> yes #ubuntu-docs is a great place
[18:17] <jjesse> but Riddell  is a BZR expert compared to me :)
[18:17] <jjesse> and also global.ent
[18:17] <jjesse> both in /libs/
[18:18] <littlegirl> Perfect - thanks!
[18:19] <littlegirl> jjesse, would it be easier for you if I do  bzr branch lp:kubuntu-docs each time I do a push so that you only get offered one document to look over?
[18:19] <jjesse> umm not i know of
[18:19] <Riddell> littlegirl: that would seem easist to me
[18:20] <littlegirl> Riddell: I'll do it. It sounds like the least amount of work over all. (:
[18:22] <littlegirl> Next question: There are work items for documents that don't exist here: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/kubuntu-docs/+spec/desktop-p-kubuntu-docs-precise like tips, for instance. Will someone be creating those?
[18:22] <jjesse> well hopefully
[18:23] <jjesse> unless you want to :)
[18:23] <littlegirl> jjessee: Heh, I don't even know what you would want in them. (:
[18:23] <jjesse> unfortunately there hasn't been much doc work this cycle
[18:23] <Riddell> littlegirl: I guess those are what Darkwing was thinking when he wrote those work items
[18:23] <jjesse> as so far it has only been me doing work as i haven't seen Darkwing around much
[18:24] <Riddell> littlegirl: if you can get hold of him to find what he was planning in a tips document you can decide if it's a good idea of no and start it (or not)
[18:24] <littlegirl> jjesse: No, and it's very sad. The docs are really out of date for the release, and it doesn't look like there is time to get them fixed up, which I assume means they will be added in their current condition.
[18:24] <Riddell> littlegirl: we can do updates after release
[18:24] <jjesse> littlegirl, almost correct
[18:24] <Riddell> littlegirl: and I'd really like them to be available on the web somewhere
[18:24] <jjesse> littlegirl, we would love to have people work on them but like I said I haven't seen Darkwing around who was going to head things up
[18:24] <littlegirl> Riddell: I'll ask him when I hear back from him. So far my email may have gotten snagged up in his spam filter. (:
[18:25] <littlegirl> Oh, thank goodness updates can be done. What a relief!
[18:25] <littlegirl> What is the chain of command for Kubuntu documentation?
[18:25]  * littlegirl doesn't want to step on any toes.
[18:25] <jjesse> there is no real chain of command
[18:26] <jjesse> all community
[18:26] <jjesse> and most of the time it is just Darkwing and myself
[18:26] <jjesse> i think those are the only 2 people who have committed recently
[18:26] <littlegirl> Ah, okay. (:
[18:26] <littlegirl> Can I make some suggestions?
[18:26] <jjesse> nixternal used to help w/ docs but he has stepped away from ubuntu/kubuntu development work
[18:26] <jjesse> yeah can we continue this over email or something, heading back to work ;0
[18:27] <jjesse><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[18:27] <littlegirl> Ah, I had been given his name initially, but had never bumped into him online. (:
[18:27] <littlegirl> jjesse: Okay, thanks for taking time out to chat in here! (:
[18:27] <jjesse> np
[18:27] <Riddell> littlegirl: plunge in, as we say :)
[18:28] <littlegirl> Riddell: I've been, but tentatively, because I'm unsure of a few things. (:
[18:29] <littlegirl> Riddell: I know the deadline is the 22nd, but since there can be updates, can commits and pushes still be done on or after the 22nd as before, and changes made to the https://blueprints.launchpad.net/kubuntu-docs/+spec/desktop-p-kubuntu-docs-precise page, or should I wait until a certain date to begin more work on the docs after the freeze?
[18:30] <Peace-> Riddell: changin name to the distro will not lead somewhere , what users want it's software that works without to do manually
[18:30] <Peace-> or why kubuntu users should use kubuntu
[18:30] <Peace-> they could use arch for example
[18:30] <Peace-> for me it's a pain in the ass btw
[18:31] <Peace-> xD
[18:31] <Riddell> littlegirl: no need to wait
[18:31] <Riddell> Peace-: we're in #kubuntu-offtopic for random chat
[18:31] <littlegirl> Riddell: Okay, thanks. (:
[18:37] <shadeslayer> Riddell: my build finished just fine thanks!
[18:37] <shadeslayer> took about 5-6 hours @_@
[18:41] <Riddell> yay!
[18:50]  * Riddell out
[18:56]  * koolhead17 finds Riddell still in :P


[16:02] <ricotz> tjaalton, hi, is it possible to add missing resolution (1600x900) locally?
[16:03] <ricotz> on bionic/xorg
[16:05] <tjaalton> ricotz: for kms drivers via some kernel cmdline trickery
[16:05] <ricotz> yes, kms it would be here
[16:09] <tjaalton> wonder if this would help:
[16:09] <tjaalton> commit a5e9bcad7ad0887f804905b482894b85751519fb
[16:09] <tjaalton> Author: Martin Wilck<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[16:09] <tjaalton> Date:   Tue Jan 9 20:33:09 2018 +0100
[16:09] <tjaalton>     xfree86: add default modes for 16:9 and 16:10
[16:11] <ricotz> looks like something which would fix this
[16:13] <tjaalton> can you test?
[16:13] <tjaalton> it could be proposed for 1.19.7
[16:13] <tjaalton> I just sent a pull request
[16:13] <tjaalton> for the OutputClass commits
[16:16] <ricotz> trying
[16:17] <ricotz> after building it ;)
[16:24] <mamarley> tjaalton: I noticed you have uploaded an apparently glvnd-enabled mesa to bionic-proposed.  Are updated NVIDIA drivers coming soon?  What does the GPU drivers team need to do?
[16:30] <tseliot> mamarley: yes
[16:30] <tseliot> they are almost ready
[16:30] <mamarley> Cool!
[16:31] <ricotz> tjaalton, it does what I wanted :)
[16:38] <tjaalton> mamarley: right, ppa:canonical-x/testing has a preliminary version, but there are at least some conflicts left and other cruft that tseliot is working on still
[16:39] <tjaalton> one thing that i don't understand how fedora is handling it is that they ship libGLX_indirect.so.0 symlink in both mesa and negativo nvidia rpms
[16:40] <tjaalton> without any mechanism for it that I could see
[16:42] <tjaalton> ricotz: which hw btw?
[16:48] <tjaalton> assuming intel with modesetting..
[16:54] <ricotz> tjaalton, yes, skylake iris 540
[16:55] <tjaalton> righy, so it's one of the regressions when we did the switch
[17:35] <alkisg> Hi! In 18.04, will it be possible to install the nvidia drivers in a template installation that is used by many clients, without having bad effects to clients that don't have nvidia?
[17:35] <alkisg> (read https://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/commit/?id=b5dffbbac193aa640ffcfa0a431c21b862854e53)
[17:39] <tseliot> alkisg: yes, I think so
[17:40] <alkisg> tseliot: great news, thank you guys :)
[17:40] <tseliot> you're welcome
[21:52] <tjaalton> ricotz: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=37858 might appreciate a comment :)
[21:55] <ricotz> tjaalton, looks like there was no rush at all :(


[10:56] <KGB-X> pygobject signed tags 021e0a3 Jeremy Bicha upstream/3.48.2 * Upstream version 3.48.2 * https://salsa.debian.org/gnome-team/pygobject/tags/upstream/3.48.2
[10:57] <KGB-X> pygobject pipeline Jeremy Bicha 662021 * pending (extract-source: pending; build: created; build i386: created; build source: created; test-build-any: created; test-build-all: created; test-crossbuild-arm64: created; reprotest: created; lintian: created; autopkgtest: created; blhc: created; piuparts: created)
[10:57] <KGB-X> pygobject upstream/latest 98d8e9d Jeremy Bicha * pushed 7 commits (first 5 follow) * https://salsa.debian.org/gnome-team/pygobject/compare/5594dbb...98d8e9d
[10:57] <KGB-X> pygobject upstream/latest e1ef2b1 Christoph Reiter meson.build pyproject.toml * version bump * https://salsa.debian.org/gnome-team/pygobject/-/commit/e1ef2b1
[10:57] -ubottu:#ubuntu-desktop- Commit e1ef2b1 in gnome-team/pygobject "version bump"
[10:57] <KGB-X> pygobject upstream/latest 78e485d Arjan Molenaar tests/ gi/overrides/Regress.py regressextra.c regressextra.h * Add a Bitmask implementation, similar to GStreamer's * https://salsa.debian.org/gnome-team/pygobject/-/commit/78e485d
[10:57] -ubottu:#ubuntu-desktop- Commit 78e485d in gnome-team/pygobject "Add a Bitmask implementation, similar to GStreamer's"
[10:57] <KGB-X> pygobject upstream/latest babdb97 Arjan Molenaar tests/test_fundamental.py * Add test case that fails similarly as for GStreamer * https://salsa.debian.org/gnome-team/pygobject/-/commit/babdb97
[10:57] -ubottu:#ubuntu-desktop- Commit babdb97 in gnome-team/pygobject "Add test case that fails similarly as for GStreamer"
[10:57] <KGB-X> pygobject upstream/latest 27d34e4 Arjan Molenaar gi/pygi-fundamental.c * Do no longer error on arguments * https://salsa.debian.org/gnome-team/pygobject/-/commit/27d34e4
[10:57] -ubottu:#ubuntu-desktop- Commit 27d34e4 in gnome-team/pygobject "Do no longer error on arguments"
[10:57] <KGB-X> pygobject upstream/latest d6d937e Arjan Molenaar gi/module.py * Only wrap instantiatable fundamental types * https://salsa.debian.org/gnome-team/pygobject/-/commit/d6d937e
[10:57] -ubottu:#ubuntu-desktop- Commit d6d937e in gnome-team/pygobject "Only wrap instantiatable fundamental types"
[10:58] <KGB-X> pygobject pristine-tar bb5db0c Jeremy Bícha pygobject_3.48.2.orig.tar.xz.delta pygobject_3.48.2.orig.tar.xz.id * pristine-tar data for pygobject_3.48.2.orig.tar.xz * https://salsa.debian.org/gnome-team/pygobject/-/commit/bb5db0c
[10:58] -ubottu:#ubuntu-desktop- Commit bb5db0c in gnome-team/pygobject "pristine-tar data for pygobject_3.48.2.orig.tar.xz"
[10:58] <KGB-X> pygobject pipeline Jeremy Bicha 662021 * running (extract-source: running; build: created; build i386: created; build source: created; test-build-any: created; test-build-all: created; test-crossbuild-arm64: created; reprotest: created; lintian: created; autopkgtest: created; blhc: created; piuparts: created)
[11:14] <KGB-X> pygobject pipeline Jeremy Bicha 662021 * [19 minutes and 45 seconds] success (extract-source: success; build: success; build i386: success; build source: success; test-build-any: success; test-build-all: success; test-crossbuild-arm64: failed; reprotest: success; lintian: success; autopkgtest: success; blhc: success; piuparts: success)