EPISODE 20: Simon Evans — Erica Ehm
Marc Aflalo
On this episode of Reinvention of the VJ Erica Ehm gets personal with host of indie show The Wedge Simon Evans who shares the hilarious reason he was put on air, what behind the scenes politics were like at Much and how he went from intern to influencing the Canadian music scene.   Simon opens up ab
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Erica Ehm
0:36

Hi there. I'm Erica Ehm. And thank you so much for tuning in to this episode of my reinvention of the vj podcast. On the show today, we're going back way back back to a prehistoric time when much music wasn't yet conceived, let alone born. As most of you know, it was the new music TV show on city TV that set the stage for a national music channel. And it was city limits that sealed the deal. On today's show, my guest was one of the very few people behind the scenes, who helped bring much music to life eventually was thrown on air and stayed with a company for close to two decades, with jobs in front and behind the camera. I'm looking forward to reminiscing with Simon Evans, host of the edge, and one of the longest standing producers on the nation's music station. Before we jump into our interview, just in case, this is your first time tuning into my podcast, what have you been waiting for? Anyway, as always, I like to give just a little bit of background on the show before we get chatting. So reinvention of the vj podcast is my up close and personal conversations with the eclectic and talented personalities like Simon, that you may have grown up on much some I work closely with, right Simon others may have been on air after my time. But as Simon will attest, while our personalities and approaches have been very different. There's one thing that we all have in common. Each of us played a small part in Canada's most influential pop culture platform. And then we left at different times, for different reasons, each of us set off on our next adventure. And it's that story of what happens after much the reinvention, the resilience, the luck, the crap, the perspective, that's what intrigues me, my chat with Simon is definitely going to be a trip down memory lane for all of us. And hopefully, it's going to spark some interesting tidbits or insights into what it is that it will take for you to get what you want in life, or maybe how to reinvent or deal with transition tough times. And maybe you'll even end up redefining what success is. A lot of us are going through challenging times these days. And we're being forced to reevaluate our priorities and make some tough choices. So maybe this conversation will help with that. Which brings me to a guy I worked very closely with man for, I don't know, 14 years. But Funny enough, we really never got to know each other very well. So Now's my chance. Simon Evans, thank you so much for agreeing to hang out with me on reinvention of the vj. How are you?

3:35

There we go. It is my pleasure. The intro was Yes, I was trying to think yes, the crap. I have a loss of crap, if you wish to speak about that. But that's not what we're here to talk about. Yes. We have known each other now for God Almighty. What? Some 40 years,

3:53

almost 40 years. 20. Right. Yeah.

3:55

We met and how

3:57

old were you? You were the same right? I

3:59

was I would have been when we met I would have been 24. But by

4:06

way, you were older than me.

4:08

Yeah. Well, I'm 60 right now.

4:11

So my

4:12

Well, I will be there. Maybe we met earlier. We're all getting older. My memories don't know. If my plaques on exactly lining up with time dates. Please don't take me to task on that. Because, you know, I? Yeah,

4:26

I mean, we'll just we'll just make shit up and make this podcast really interesting. We have to make

4:32

sure that I'm good. I mean, we two feet.

4:36

Yeah. So I was actually hoping that you would remember this stuff, but now you're asking me to remember it. So we'll try and figure this out. What I remember most importantly, is that I was working in the office at 99 Queen Street East. I had just finished university at Ottawa University. My degree and Communications. And the day that I finished in the summer because I did summer classes to speed up my university. I moved to Toronto, and I started work the next day, answering the phones for the new music, and in walks Simon Evans and Morgan Flurry. And you were that in quotation marks? The interns? Yes. So were you actually an intern? And what is the real story about you landing in that office? At the same day that I started my first day at City TV

5:42

will tell you we. So we went for free into an interview, which in those days, okay, much music. City TV that started the whole thing, as you talked about earlier in the, in your intro was the P Ron. It's too much music, which, you know, nationally, everybody knows, but locally, it was all city TV. So we went to local college. Centennial College, in the RTA program, and Radio and Television Arts. Yeah. Radio and Television. Yes. So yeah. The dying off the radio and television. And so we, myself, Morgan, Florida, who you mentioned, we're friends at college. And we both wanted to work on new music. So our instructor called it new music. We've never had really an intern before. So they were like, they want to work here. Why would they want to work here? And like us, we kind of love music and love the show. And we went for the interview beforehand. And they were like, Oh, yeah, we stopped because we'll need people in the office, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And they have the day we show up. I don't know if you saw the very day we showed up or a couple days later. But anyway, they mentioned you were calling right. And I was like, oh, okay, so now they've got someone else. And they're like, oh, does that mean that we're not gonna get hired? Yeah, it was one of those deals, because right out right out of school, we were in the last year of college. And it was like, yeah, and then the you were you showed up. Daniel richler had just been hired as well, and who was a reporter slash on Earth. New Music. We then became an author, and I don't know what, I haven't seen him in years. But yeah, so it was, it was an interesting, it was an interesting start, because we kind of were like, oh, now do we have to, you know, like, we thought that might be a job. And then you took the job. And then you know, we'd like waited, there was a weird intro to you. I mean, that I think things would go swimmingly for everyone. So it was, yeah, but it was an interesting start. That's how I started my music.

8:12

It's interesting. When I think back to my days at Sydney TV and much that there's an irony because internally, there was not a lot of communication. Even though we were in a communications company, didn't you find like, nobody knew what the hell anybody else was doing or why they were doing and things would just pop up and say, they would say, Okay, now you're doing this. And we're like, wait, what, what just happened? there? Was that person?

8:38

Oh, yeah. No, that was the entire that was our entire lives? No, I mean, he would be like, there was, you know, there was, it was a, it was good things and bad things about that. Right? With? Yes, you didn't really get any information. So certainly, it'd be like, oh, by the way, we're doing this. At the same time, though, you could go with an idea. And literally, if it didn't cost them any money, meaning, you know, like, literally, it didn't cost any money, then let you do it. And it would go on air. And I was like, like you I was what I would consider relatively a quote unquote, kid. I want to be like, you know, I want to do a show on this. And john mons, who was our box at the time, I know that I'm a Brit. To start with, in case people don't know, and he was another Brittany, but just like I yeah, make this go do it. Do it. I'm like, and you do it and go john, you want to say it and like now I trust you? Like Okay, so I'm putting stuff on the air unseen by anyone. You know, and I was like, you know, you're like 2322 Oh, it was crazy. But you know, that was the beauty of it. And I think it worked for them. And I think a lot of creativity came out of it and letting people explore their ideas and they were passionate about it because you know, you will passion about music. I was Yeah, I think it really it worked in our favor. But at the same time you right, suddenly you'll be thrown into something. And it would be like, what what are we doing? Okay. I've never done that before, but we'll give it a go. So yeah, it was. Yeah, it was an interesting way to do it. And especially with john at the helm. You know, unfortunately, recipe he's no longer with us. I'm sure he wouldn't mind me saying this, you know, his office was literally across the street in the ball. You know, we'd like, you know, so you'd go and see john, it was kind of like for a meeting, sometimes it would be in his office, which wasn't really his office, because he'd be in the ball, because he could smoke and he could drink and do whatever. And it was like, it was crazy. When you think about it. It kind of worked at the time. They don't make absolute sense. And now, or something like that kind of, like out of madman or something, you know, the TV show. It's crazy. It's like I was sitting down, I don't drink and I was like, okay, Tony, you're slim. 30. But I'm sure Yeah, why not?

11:06

Did you feel an affinity with john Martin? Because you were both Brits?

11:11

No, not too much. You know, john was, like, we're both Northern England, Brits. He's from Manchester, which is north and the, you know, I know, you people know this from us. I'm from Liverpool. Perhaps perhaps there's a little bit of something going on mayhaps, he saw a little bit of, you know, the northern England than me or something. But you know, just as much as the thing. Anybody had any kind of thing with john, I think he appreciated a bit of spunk, which we had, you know, and if you follow them, like he, you know, he'd listened to you. And if you came in with a volleyball arguments, like he would, and you could yell at him, which is great. You know, I remember the opening night of when we launched much music. And, of course, typically, john, right. He shows up with voice, I have a six hour script for the show. And we're launching like at six o'clock, and he comes in about 530 with an hour and a half of the script. And they're like, Where's the rest? And he's like, oh, we're gonna make it up as we go along. It's a live show. Live show now. All new, right? national launch of a new service. Yeah, so that was john. So at one point, I strangled him. I remember that in the control room. I tried to. And he's my guy. Yeah, you know, he probably had a few. You know, it was like, that was I know, that was the way it was, it was mental, and we made it work. And you thought on your feet, and we came up with ideas on the spot. And yeah, and everybody was involved, you know, on people, as well as behind the scenes people. And, you know, the TVs and all the technical people, you know, the, you know, the guy in the audio room had an idea we do,

13:05

people that I've spoken to, you are the most knowledgeable about the connection between sort of the crew, and I'm using,

13:16

you know, whatever, we're all doing air quotes, yeah. quotes,

13:19

and then the hosts and or the on air people, from your point of view. Tell me about the connection between or the working relationship between the technical crew and the onair people? Did you? Do you feel like they were on the same page? Was there resentment was there camaraderie.

13:44

Um, I think, especially in the early days, like when you started and, you know, and we were there, we were all in it together, kind of thing. It really was, like, you know, we'd all show up and make a show, obviously, the videos that we were going to play were programmed, and the guests that we had coming in for that day, and we had, as you know, a slew of them, right? Especially, you know, once a once it got a bit of momentum, like everybody was calming, they were always going to us, right? So besides those kind of tentpoles, if you will join the day. Like everything else is up for grabs. So, you know, if somebody came up with an idea, like if a camera guy or girl said, Hey, you know, we should do? We should pretend that Eric is, you know, trapped in a box and can't get out or something. It was just like, ridiculous, when you think about it now, but there was no script to it. There was no rhyme or reason, like, you obviously came in with your notes of what you were going to say for the day. And, and everyone was kind of like this. We have moved there live for six hours. You know, there was no breaks kind of thing. So you just sat there twiddling your thumbs to a little bit of an extend was like, Okay, what can we do to lighten things up and I think think most of the staff that they'd hired were kind of free spirited, kind of people, they weren't union type guys, nothing against union people don't get me wrong. I'm a big union supporter. But you know, like, it wasn't like, I'm just there to do a job. Everybody was there to contribute as well. Whenever they had an idea, no one ever, you know, it was like, you know, you're just an associate producer, or a camera guy, like, it was like, now, this isn't anybody's show. This is everyone show, if you will, it was very, like a socialist sort of society in a way. And, you know, we'd like you to come up with an idea. And, you know, like, I know, the other thing, too, was like, sometimes it would be like, I don't know, like, let's just do it and see what happens. We'll just go on it. And it was like, Was that good? I can't tell you no, it feels fine. In a way.

15:53

Well mentioned. You mentioned, the fact that it was a socialist kind of society. And you mentioned the different people who are on the crew, and what, and you said, some of the camera men or women, etc. And I remember that, I was very proud at much because the women and men did the same jobs. It seemed like it was a very, I don't know if the word is feminist, but certainly a very Equal Opportunity place to work, where people were given incredible opportunities, no matter what color their skin was, what gender they were, even if they had disabilities. They were they were invited to participate. Is that true? From your perspective?

16:40

It was almost like, you know, you if you showed up when you contributed, you could have been like a cab driver, you know, and it would be like, if you volunteered long enough, they would hire you. I mean,

16:54

it was the best way to get in there was to volunteer.

16:57

Yeah, I mean, some of the people that would, and this was the great thing about that, you know, we'd have receptionists who would, on their spare time, would volunteer to follow, you know, the AMG camera. People say, for example, and then become entry camera people because they've learned on the job. They have no technical training, and they would hire them because of the fact they put in the time. You know, you don't I mean, I mean, obviously, your skills would have to be

17:29

that's what happened to me, when you think that I was a receptionist. And yes, I had a university degree. And yes, I worked at the local cable company at the same time, and I went on the air there. But I made a demo tape for john and Nancy, at the cable company, when I was working there when we were still at 99, Queen east. And we're in the big office at that point, not the small one. And much music was already on the air. And I showed it to JD, and he went, this is shit. And literally, this is shit. And he said, we need to make you a better one. Do you remember when the crew got together one night and gave me the greatest gift? Because you guys shot my demo tape. Do you remember that?

18:16

All right. I don't I don't know. Well, maybe I wasn't there. Yeah, but yeah, I don't remember. I remember we shot a number of demo tapes with people. But yeah, I mean, I remember when I remember seeing your demo tape. I remember that. And JD was big, you know, supporter. Oh, basically, he

18:35

saved my life. You kidding. He taught me everything. Yeah, it was

18:40

no, no, no, he kicked down. I remember sitting down with you going that's wrong. That's wrong. That's wrong. That's wrong. Now, you know, like, to a point I think, you know, you might have eyes My wife such a well up with tears. But you know, he's right. And he was showing you because, you know, a lot of times you don't see yourself to write, you know, they always say like, you should watch yourself back. I don't know about you. The worst thing in the world is to watch yourself back knew anything. And I believe it was Humphrey Bogart, I might be wrong. So someone can like require that said, watching yourself on this big screen is like eating your own vomit. And it's true. It's like sitting there. And you're going, Oh, my God, this is terrible. You know? So I mean, it's good to have someone sitting there going, yes. You know what? You're doing fine. But here's your mistakes. And yeah, no, I remember like, that's what it was about, like everybody supported everybody else. Everybody wanted everyone to do well, what I

19:41

remember as much as there was all of us working together, that there was really a lack of direction. So I got zero direction. When I would go in for a shift or the on air people. We were all just sort of making it up minute to minute in it. And I wonder for you, as I'm talking to as the producer who also now, right? on our experience. Was there respect for the honor people who had to make shit up all the time? Or were they just annoyed by the fact that the honor people were making shit up all the time?

20:27

No, because you know what, we were all making shit up all the time. But that's a good question. I mean, obviously, like, not everything that came out of, you know, either your mouth, or Christopher's, or whoever else jadis I might agree with at the same time, like, you know, I don't think there was any, any lack of respect, I think perhaps, in the beginning, you stumbled a lot. Which means, I think very frustrating for people like myself, between you and me. Oh, no, wait, there's a whole audience now. You know, only it was really like, Fuck, but at the same time, you know, like, we were all well, getting through it. Like, I didn't know what the hell I was doing. It was suddenly an associate producer. I've been working there for like, a year, you know, suddenly like, oh, okay, I used to be a PA, you know, and now you're producing the show. And you, you know, you're working out of it as you go. So I think, you know, in, when I look back, I probably should have had more patience with other people. But you didn't have the time because you didn't think about it. And at the same time, you know, I think probably people hated me too. You know, it's probably like, what's this? Fucking dude? You know, it's been in for like, a week, you know? So I think it was it was twofold. It would have been nice, I think to have a bit of direction. on at the same time, but at the same time, I liked the fact that we didn't, because we kind of made it up, I think, I think it genuinely came across on screen, that there was there was spirit to this thing, which, you know, a lot of times I'm watching a show now and is like this, nothing in this tone, which I honestly, I didn't used to believe I used to think that people said that about how much music. But I'm now starting to think as I get older that it was true. If there was a certain amount of you could feel the energy through the I think this through the screen about what was happening. And the fact I think people knew we were kind of making it up as we went along. And I think they went with us. And it was like, Oh, I get it. We're all in this together. And I think the audience went a little bit as well, you know, because we used to involve the audience, and especially once the building, you know, we moved to the new building on 299 new building is back in the 80s. I think it was like a way. Yeah, all the glass windows and everything I really added to everything because then people could come in at you watch the chaos, as you know. And it was great. And it was like, you know, the audience were involved as much as we were. You were that makes sense.

23:10

You were there right at the beginning, because in order to get the license for much music, john and john Martin and Moses had this idea to start doing an overnight music show, kooky late night show, to show that they were already doing it, which in fact, worked in their favor, which is how they got the license. One of the reasons we got the license for much. So it was called city limits. Yeah, and that show was kind of nuts. And certainly done on a shoestring. And that's where Christopher Ward was brought in as the host. And you and Morgan were on the team, with Michael Hayden and Howard as producers. I would love to hear from your point of view, what that was like, because that was before there was an MTV, that's before as much music so you were basically paving the way for what much music would become. So tell me a little bit about being part.

24:16

Okay, so we started in September of whatever was it 80 or 8483? Yeah, 83 a great and and then in October of 8083, they decided john Mann decided that we were going to do this all night show. What they did was, as you mentioned earlier, it was on a shoestring. So the the way that they had the control room, it's gonna be a little convoluted, but I'll make it brief. So the control room that they had, they did the news and pretty much every show out. Have, quote unquote silly TV was in this control room that had open windows. So if you came in from the outside, meaning, you know, if you were sitting in the lobby, you could look into the control room. That makes sense. Yeah. And you could open the windows, right? So what they did was they put cameras on the inside, they shot the could just just basically the control room. So they had, you know, the, you know, PA, the director, whoever else is doing, you know, the Kairos, you know, whatever. And they, they shot that and put a host in the middle of it. So, obviously, he didn't need to set. You didn't need any kind of, you know, extra lighting except just lighting, you know, the control room.

25:45

And that was his idea of being part of the process. Right. That was,

25:50

yeah, yeah, that's how it all kind of started.

25:54

for that.

25:56

Yeah. Is being you know, you don't exclude the audience. You bring them into your world. But to be honest, you're right. It was done because it was cheap. It wasn't like we didn't have a budget for it. It was just it was, you know, it was a done. And yeah, we went on the air to one. Well, we went on after the movie. So sometimes it was one o'clock. Sometimes it was 115. You know, depending on the movie in the morning. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, no, we worked overnight. And, and it was like, from there, it was just like you, right? They hired. Chris Ward, was a friend of john mons, from the past. And he was a singer songwriter originally. And he done some Second City work. He'd work with Mike Myers, which will mentioned earlier on now, later on, I mean, sorry. And, yeah, so he came in as kind of the host of the, you know, the show, quote, unquote, and it was it was basically just throwing videos, just like, you know, this is what we can do. 24 seven. So as you said, it was the, you know, this is the show the CRTC, when they granted the licenses, that we have the chops to do it. We had the video library already from the new music that was already, you know, sort of in place. We had clips, you know, we had interviews, we had things we could bring to the table that no one else could. So you know, we have we have some, you know, then quite famous people, we have people like YouTube and you know, when you to yet and you know what I mean? But so yeah, so I mean, that was all on, you know, the board, and then it was it was basically another one of those. Okay, guys, there you go. Now, you have to make this work for five or six hours, depending on how long you know, you're on the air for which, you know, like we did, and that's when we did crazy things like we made up little skips and three in the morning when you're sitting there going, Okay, what are we going to do now, you know, and including the people like, Christmas friend at the time was Mike Myers. He came on, he did come a number of skits. One of them was Wayne was the first time you saw Wayne from Wayne's World was on the city limits, because he played his cousin Wayne from Scarborough, and which is, you know, a border of Toronto if you don't know what Scarborough is. And, yeah, it was like crazy times, once again,

28:33

everybody was everybody Hi, doing this, like,

28:37

No, actually saintly enough. There was no drug use really involved. It was all just, well, first of all, you couldn't because you as an intern shoe, we'd work all day. And then we basically either go home or go to the pub, and then come back at like 1am. And you'd start working. But you have to prep the show. Right? So we'd probably be there by 1030 at night, just to make sure that everything was in place, and everything was ready to go because it was videos. At that point. You have a special you know, you inserted into videotape. Right? But no, I don't think anyone was high. I mean, there might have been some shenanigans going on during the show. But you know, we did have a little thing where we didn't open the bar till 3am we'd buy like a 12 pack of beer or something. But no, there was no. Yeah. No. I mean, it would look like if you watch some of the latest tapes of like, what No, it was, it was just more like the fact it was late night and we were all younger and you know, falling behind and nobody stopped you. You could have done whatever you wanted, and nobody was there to say no.

29:51

Now Moses was known to be a night owl. So would he show up at some of these shoots?

29:57

Yeah, occasionally. It was always a bit of the Dr. Doom kind of scenario showing up because, you know, a lot of times he liked what he saw, a lot of times he'd have some input. And it's like, his input wasn't, you know, particularly pop culturally relevant if you wish. So it would be like, I think we should do more with, you know, offer singers, like, okay, not really going to go down with the 20 somethings that are watching our show stoned out of their minds. But yeah, so it'd be a little bit like that. But for the most part, I think he actually stayed away. For the most part. I think he came in a couple of times, but it was mostly to rag on the fact that nobody looked happy. I remember that. He centers remember once saying, everybody that was at the control desk, didn't look happy enough to be there. And he was like, Yeah, but you know, it's 3am. And everyone's just so I mean, and we just tried to look up. Yes.

31:07

So one of the, I think most important jobs that you and Sherry Greengrass, Morgan Flurry, Craig halkett, that you guys had, you were in charge of programming the videos for our regular video flow, which was essentially the bread and butter of muchmusic. So tell me about what were the rules of programming? Did you? Did you program the shows? For each host? Like, did you play the music that I liked for a show? How much Canadian content was there? You know, I'm just wondering what like, what were the rules for programming, but music?

31:49

Right. So what we did was we set up the same as most radio stations do just to Bay to make it easier, and Beto always get in, like the hits that people want to see. Because remember, like, like back in the day, videos, were actually something that people were interested in, meaning they would actually run home to watch them. Like if Madonna was putting a new video out, we'd say, this is going to premier today 5pm people would actually go home and tune in to see the new video, right? So without said, so we would have our schedule set up sort of like an A, B and C kind of like a rotation. So the A's were the definite players. And they played like, you know, once every six hours, say. And then the bees play every other day once every six hours and the seed play Z's played like three days,

32:48

right? Sometimes heavy em and light rotation. Exactly. Okay. Yes.

32:52

Yes, well put. And then in between that you'd add your own flair, right? you'd add your own, you know, the old ease or everything else? And then yes, we will probably culture it a bit too. You know, what you liked, say being euro, sort of a younger, you know, hipper, silver girl, we would probably program stuff that was more your kind of vibe, right? As opposed to say, a Christopher Ward, or JD, or john as he is now. You know? So you did sort to kind of cater in a bit to who it was like Mike Williams obviously, was like the soul King, right? So we'd probably throw in a little bit more soul music or r&b.

33:46

When you were talking about the the heavy, medium and light rotation that was decided, because there was the weekly music committee. Yeah, and I see you smiling at me as I say that because there was a select group of much music people who every week disappeared into the boardroom with a pile of actual videos, you know, like, yeah, three quarter inch videos that you would then debate and discuss. And at the end of the two hour meeting or so you'd walk out with that next week's playlist. Many people got to see what happened in that room. So can you describe like, was the battle like were people fighting and as you said, You strangle john Martin ones, like were you strangling each other to I want that goddamn video in or out? It's not good, or it's the best?

34:44

Yeah, no, there was definitely a lot of that. Only because everyone was well, obviously everybody in there thought that they had the best ideas, right. But you Semi Well, no, I mean, I, you know, I, I thought what I liked was, you know, to be honest, like things like, I'll tell you two of the main fights that we had right was getting things like, you know, the Corazon, quote, alternative music scene, right? I remember trying to bring that to the forefront going on guys, this is really this is getting really popular, right? It's not just popular with, you know, the punk, quote unquote punks of the day. It's now becoming a thing, right? More and more people listening to it, we should probably start to bring him into the mainstream. The other one was rap, right? In the beginning, rap music was basically it's a Yeah, but you know what, why kids are listening to rap to it ain't just like Evan, you know, music. It's not a it's not no longer just a genre of, it's now a thing. It's not like, it's like the punk thing. It's no longer just a thing. It's like now becoming mainstream. A lot of, you know, a lot of music out there is crossing boundaries and now becoming, it's now become a hit song. And it's not just because, you know, so there was a bit of dogfighting happening as well. But unknown, of course, there was the like, I think, I think this song is going to be a hit, and people are going I don't think it is. And that would when it would move it would get into the, you know, back and forth and things. It's like, Well, you know, your opinion is as good as mine. And then we'll let's see what happens with the song and see who's vindicated at the end. Because if it does become a hit, then you know,

36:45

did you vote on it? Was there a vote? Like?

36:49

There was more? Yeah, it was more of a voting sort of situation. I mean, there was a lot of things that were a done deal, right? Even Madonna puts a song out in those days, it was a hit, done doesn't matter. Doesn't matter what it is, you know, shouldn't be hitting itself on the head with a spoon. We still want to play that right. But there was Yeah, there was a there was a lot more of not debate. So we say, yeah, there was a lot of aRGy bargy back and forth between the members of the of the committee and yeah, there were some of those a couple of times we got heated for sure. No other things. I mean, stupidly, really, when you think about it, you know, but you will fighting for what you believed in. And even something like no

37:35

sigh, think about it, you how many people were in that group? It was you.

37:42

And the original one that was like seven people,

37:44

right? So seven people, you kids, were basically dictating what would become popular in the Canadian music world. Did you understand really, the gravity of your decisions?

38:03

No, not really. I mean, now, we also use things like, you know, billboard, the top 100 on the record, which was the Canadian equivalent of billboard, magazine, for you kids who don't know, that used to be things called magazines, and people used to read them. And yeah, and there was a lot of industry trades that had what was going on, like, what were the stats were so you know, a lot of that was taken into consideration, too, it wasn't all just off the fly. So, you know, obviously, if it's entered number 40, in, you know, the top 100 a billboard it's probably going to be a hit, which means radio is going to play it, which means you're going to listen to it and you're going to want to see the video. So we all you know, we all play that game. At the same time, though. Yeah, you're right. Like it would be like, this is a great video to sign off so much. Thumbs down, I hit but the video is excellent. So we're gonna play the video in high rotation because the video is, you know, the two guys from Tennessee who went on to be really great video directors. I've just made this fantastic video for cry. Yeah, Thera band you haven't heard of yet. So we're gonna play it now I rotation because it's not ahead. But it's, you know, it's an excellent piece of filmmaking. So there was a bit of that, too. Yeah. But in conclusion, you're right. There was a bunch of kids basically programming the station

39:38

and deciding the who would live and die in the music business. It was, it was actually a huge responsibility.

39:48

Yes, yes or no, I mean, I ever was Canadian land. I think for the most part. You know, there was always a high respect for Canadian artists. A because obviously, you know, you fight in the US to get any kind of recognition in a way. Plus you wanted to support your own. So even though some of it was a bit lackluster in my opinion you know, we still we would still played and heavy rotation because, you know, these are Canadian artists. They've got things behind them to tour in Canada. There was a little bit of that.

40:29

Simon, I have to read this. Okay, I found this on the internet.

40:34

Here we go. It must be to

40:37

be original, and still the best host of the wedge, cranky Brit Evans had filled in his host of city limits after fellow Brit Kim Clark champness left. And while his honor demeanor was at times intense, it suited the genres and bands covered. Evans had an encyclopedic knowledge of music, which paired with his moody Northern accent, and made for great TV. And that is the transition from Simon Evans curmudgeonly producer to Simon Evans. COMM curmudgeon on air personality.

41:17

How did you

41:18

how did they pick you? or How did you end up on air?

41:23

It's an interesting story. That was obviously my mom that wrote that, by the way. But yeah, and Okay, well, what happened was, we had I think, three, three v J's, I'd quit in a row. Until Dawn, I think was one come on with the other two were anyway, they don't all bug it off to do other things. And there was no, there wasn't really that many people to fill in the slots. So once again, being it was much music and being that we all got together to put on a show. They decided to let on and people are sorry, staff people be on air people. So basically, if you have any kind of, you know, aspirations to be on air. And at one point, because I was a bit of a critic of on air people, yes, you were I, john Martin, good friend who from the, you know, 15 minutes ago, said, Hey, you should do that may give it a go. Alright, so I did it. I did it. A shift, which was, I think four hours at the time. And Stewart Copeland came in. Yeah. And police from the police.

42:53

Yeah. You Stewart Copeland.

42:57

On I would like, you know, I'm not really on air, right. And he's like, no, I could tell. He's like our slide. You know what? I'm not really. I'm not really in a band. I'm like, Okay. Yeah. Anyway, so, in the meantime, I'm on the air. Jump on in a meeting with our good friend, Moses nightmare. and a bunch of other. Hi, hi. JOHN goes, I just want to put this on. Because we have our staff doing intros to videos. So this is on. I'm on. Moses says, according to john, you know, this is the kind of guy this is my bad nose when personation By the way, this is the kind of guy that we should never put on TV, which is why we should put him on TV. I don't know. Like, he's like, so I'm listening. This is how I got off with the job. So Jonah, that commandment, like, and then go ahead and like listen, for Moses or your thing. And yeah, do you want to do, like, say a couple of shifts a week? And I'm like, What? Like, yeah, you know, like, I don't know, an extra few dollars. Like, I don't know, okay. Yeah, yeah. So I thought about it and, you know, spoke to the wife at the time and watching the same one. And it was like, I was like, Yeah, but I'm on TV. I saw. I'm terrible. She's like me, you always seeing everyone else is terrible. I mean, like, so that's what I'm seriously. You know, it's a true story. I know. It sounds made up but it's not. I know, and that's what I got. I didn't it's like, Oh, God. I know. You know, I gotta be honest, I got out, you know, I hated it. From day one. And it was like, and they paid me I think about like, $12,000 more a year or something. It was like, No, we're going to give you like five and a $5, a six, you know, kind of compensation like, I don't really want to do it. You can find someone else you find any kid on the street at that point. Love to be on muchmusic. Anyway, that's how it started. So that he's like, yeah, I see once referred to me, because, as you well know, you had to deal with Moses. Oh, you have to deal with all those right? Yeah, he called me once the I was the dirty shirt in his laundry basket on PJs. And I was like, I have no idea what that really means. But I'm kind of like doing the dirty shirt. ideas or daddy shit.

45:46

Simon, I'm, I am dying Catholic. So when you went on air, and you hated it, it stains change the way you saw the other on air people's performances?

46:02

Um, yes. And no, I'll tell you why. Because I didn't want to be there. A lot of people did. And I thought, you know, I didn't go home and hone my craft, as they say, Yes, in a way it did. Because I honestly are very important. The beginning, I didn't think it was easy. I just thought, you know, like, I've chosen to be that kind of thing, right? So I had, I was like, so now I have to make this work the way I the way that I can. And, you know, I had to do it. And the way that I did it, which is probably not the best way to do it. It was just me. And I thought you know, what you think about it is I can honestly say if somebody goes wagon go, you know what you are being presented? Like, no, it's just me. It's just me. This is what you get, you know. But yeah, I mean, I, when I look back, you know, I was probably harder on people than I should have been crucial. I don't know. I was just kind of, I don't know, trying to make things better. I would say me too, you know,

47:14

I think everybody was into me at some point. So don't worry about it. I still love you and loved you then.

47:21

I don't think it was any hard feelings. I mean, the thing I liked about about much was, I could have a screaming fight with someone, I mean, a screaming fight. And then, you know, on our song, we'd be at the pub together having a drink. Like it was all that was then this is now you know, yeah. You know, they always like it was like working in like, you know, a high end kitchen is something where, you know, everyone's screaming at each other to get the meal out. Once it's done, everyone's like, Hey, I don't know.

47:50

I think that's a really great sort of description of it. And I think that it's true. And what also happened in the process is that I think deep, deep relationships were formed. Because of that, like, we there is a relationship that you and I have, or Morgan and I are David kinds are the guys who are on camera, the you know, Basil's etc. where it's like, we went through the war together or something.

48:21

Yeah, it was more like it was like in the field stuff that things got a little heated too. Because, you know, you obviously you only had one shot at this, like you're in London, England, and you're interviewing whoever. This is it. You only got one go. And, you know, to me the most was I mean, I can't remember like, you know, you were always prepared and graphs, you know, I didn't agree with what came out of your mouth or something. But at the end of the day, we got it. We got the footage, right. And we got you know, we got it done. And you know, perhaps, but then again, you know, I'm not, I'm not I'm not smart guy like it's like, I have one opinion, you know,

49:03

were you on the road with helix

49:05

in Europe needed me and God mcquarters. What happened? Well, so basically what happened with that is the they will look into someone to tell with helix. Yeah, as you just said, so Europe. Yeah, how I agreed to do it. I don't remember but must have been drunk. And yeah, like I don't know how, because God McWatters at the time wasn't really a field cameraman at all. He just got roped in to some kind of oddball situation. And yeah, we traveled in a Bedford van. It's the smallest van you can imagine in England with the entire band of healing road manager. Yeah.

49:57

So you were in the band with helix The road manager

50:02

tooling around Europe. Yeah.

50:06

Was it fun?

50:10

Was it fun? Yes. And no, it was fun. It was most uncomfortable experience in my life. And yeah. Yeah, I think it was fun. I think we had some good times. You know, it was once again, he looks. You know, you're not to say anything against the elites of the time they were doing okay. It wasn't like we were touring with, you know, Bon Jovi. So it was a little, it was a little difficult, shall we say? Well, yeah, no, it was like, like, once again, it was one of those things that no one else would have done. But us, right. I mean, made a one hour show out of it. Walking around the street TV and it was helix I know you've ever been but it's you know, as you can imagine, a very prosperous high end city with a lot of very snobby people were walking around with a dirty looking rock and roll band, shooting, you know, interviews in the streets. was a fun. Of course, it was fun. When I look back at it, it was fun. And I'm still friends with God. And I still I see him every couple of months, when not more. Not so much lately, but. And yeah, we still reminisce about it a little bit. So it didn't traumatize him so much. It brought us closer together. We're still friends. You know, I think spending a week in a little van traveling around with your legs. So every time we would get now going are crazy. How much more can we drink to make this? seem like it's fun. But yeah. Which we did? Quite a bit of. But yeah, yeah, no, there was some. There's some experiences. I know that was a shitty story. I'm sorry. But

51:50

tell me about the different incarnations of much. So you live through different incarnations. So there was did john Martin era? And was the Denise era. So how did Yeah, what was different about the Denise era, I was gone at that point, Denise donlin was running much music john Martin had yet what was different?

52:19

Well, let me see if I can put this gently. So when john was there, things was things were a little bit more politically incorrect, shall we say? There was a lot more freedom of things to do. And again, though, you have to remember that the time to change to write so you know, we will we lived in the When did you leave? 9119 9494? Okay. So, you know, you saw the change to between 1984 and 94. You know, the music, you know, the whole, you know, video wasn't that special anymore. Things have changed a little bit. It used to be a lot more fun now was just the business in a way. So Denise took over to kind of a time when it was in, it not plateaued, but it was getting there, right? And we're starting to, you know, everyone was like, yeah, we don't really care that much anymore about what the new video is, and everything else. So there was a little bit of that to do to kind of, but she was way more politically motivated as well. You know, it was more like, let's get the kids out to vote and let's do this and that and the other and let's play more, you know, music matters. And it was like, Yeah, but the kids just want to rock because they, you know, old song goes. So it was like, it was a little bit of that was a little bit I think looking down upon things like real pop music. You know, wasn't you know, politically or it wasn't, you know, quote unquote, music in some people's eyes. And it was like, well, it is to the kids and they love it.

54:12

So it was more serious and more earnest.

54:16

It got more in is when it shouldn't have been it should have been quite the opposite. It should have been, you know, we should be doing more of one the Spice Girls than we are. You know, I don't know. Greenpeace. JOHN. JOHN prine. You know, like, it was like, Yeah, I don't know. I think maybe the kids just want to have fun.

54:41

And then she left I think. And then Sheila Sullivan took over. And

54:48

yeah, I was. I was gone by then. So I was gone in 97. So

54:54

what happened?

54:55

How did I move? Well, I'd have enough frankly. Have that and this space channel had just started with Marcy Martin was in charge. He's another executive from CTV, I was really interested in space exploration, not so much the sci fi part, but more the science part when they were doing a lot of that, so I, I went for the job and got the job had a bad reputation. Evidently, when I went there. It was argumentative,

55:34

me talking.

55:36

By No.

55:37

Is it true that when Denise said, it's time for you to go, you argued with her? And you said, Actually, no, it isn't

55:47

true. You build it up. You go do research. That is true. It is true. I have two things on my side, though. I go supposedly, given my walking papers, if that's the right thing, because of my attitude, and not because of my job performance. And I said, Well, you know, what? We agree to disagree. I think some of the things that you do, are not quite what I would do. And I should have been a little bit more. Don't let what you have to remember, we grew up together, right? So we were friends. So I have a friend that will be able to go to you and go do whatever if you kind of suck right now. And you have the right to go Well, fuck you. say okay, but I've had my say, well, like and didn't wash too well, I guess later on in life. So, yeah. But I also was still in the Union. So it was like, Well, yeah. You can't actually, I mean, without the union being prison, which the knot and and she's like, No, no, we're just coming to talk. It was like, okay, we're having a talk. I said, I will keep my mouth shut. I won't say anything anymore. And my business a little while. Yep. And then you went to space? And then in which case? Yeah, but you know what? I was already on my way out anyway. Like, I've done it for how long? 15 years or something 14 years. Like it was like I was ready to go. Yeah,

57:26

it was longer than that, Simon, because I was there for 14 years. And you were there for three years longer. So you were almost 1718 years. That's crazy.

57:37

I was I see. So it was almost time for me to go. It was so yeah. Anyway, I'd like to say to Denise, though, I think we've put those we've buried those hatches, too. So I think everything's cool. But it's hard to know. I

57:50

mean, it's, it's hard when your work colleagues become your bosses. That's it, it changes the whole dynamic.

57:59

Yeah, you know, it wasn't so much that I just didn't agree with what was happening, I think, and I used to be far more vocal, as you will remember, than I am now. And in retrospect, I probably should have kept my mouth shut, because it wasn't my position to say that. But I always thought that there was an open dialogue. So if I think for example, like you're not playing enough pop music, and it's huge. And you know, that's what the kids want. And I come and say it. I think that maybe it listened to me, as opposed to No, that's all.

58:34

So how long were you at space for?

58:37

Oh, for 10 years? Really? Yeah. 97 to 2000, then. Yeah. And then CTV took over. They bought out chum. And then because I was a supervising producer at the time, I got kind of tough, which I expected. You know,

59:04

that must have been a hard time for you though. Because you had been part of that building that company for at that point. If I do my math correctly. 2728 years. That's almost

59:18

no yeah. 20 Yeah. 20. A compound thinking, how, how is my severance package? with how many years was it? It was at the same time? No, it was kind of nice, because I didn't particularly want to live on to the CTV world, already lived on to the chum world. all I could see was like, CTV were way more corporate. And now I say understand, Belle is even way more corporate than that. So and I didn't mind we're actually moving along. Like, I kind of have expected it.

59:53

There's a lot of people these days who are losing their jobs, obviously in broadcasting but in so many different fields. And there's, I'm sure that there's a lot of big emotions involved in leaving something that you're familiar with. And then the fear of the unknown. So how did you deal with that? Did you get a job right away? in broadcasting? Did you change direction completely? How did you deal with that time?

1:00:20

Yeah, no, a good question. Because at the time, I thought, I'm done with broadcasting, because that's all you know, I've been there for so long, I wanted to try something new. And at the time, like, you know, I, I'm in a field, I'm lucky enough to be in a fairly comfortable spot, you know, financially and everything else. So, you know, the wife was like, What? Take some time off? Think about what you want to do. You've worked, you know, for the since you were 18. So why don't you just have a little holiday and think about things? I did? When it's all work? You know, what am I going to do? So I worked for a charity for a while, just for success, they work for them not worked work, you know, volunteered for them for a while you do? And I did like a lot of it? Well, a lot of you know, as a volunteer, you do a little bit of everything. So I didn't do to my I did a bit of marketing for them. You know, I got Jeannie backer on board, you know, things like that, like little things like going like, Well, I know these people and you know, maybe they can help and then she you know, so I think he still works with him now, you know, so many years later, and started that. And then you know, I did a couple of other things. And then I ended up working on a garden center. That was right at the end of my street. Do you remember? I don't think you will know. But I don't know. You know what? JOHN Reeves used to do a thing on city line. Okay. You won't know. Anyway, he's a friend of a friend. And I noticed that the wreaths people were opening something at the end of the street. I always like I always like gardening. So like, so we're going to garden center for a year, then they closed and also things like that. And then yeah, ended up back on the kind of heap. And that's when I hooked up with David times and Hollywood suite, which is the place I work with now, which is like Movie Channel, a great movie channel, he would like me to say, if you don't have it, you should subscribe. And so unfortunately, not what your story

1:02:36

is a story. Here's the story. The story is that you leveraged your relationship that you had nurtured at muchmusic. David kinds, and you had worked together for many, many years. And I'm not sure if you reached out to him or he reached out to you. But in any case, that's what people do when they are in transition for a career is you go to your network, and that's what you did.

1:03:06

Yeah, yeah. No, what happened was what day was he contact me in a freelance. job before I worked? Well, actually a Hollywood tweet. He was doing a freelance gig. And he was like, Oh, you know, I know you're unemployed. At the moment. Oh, you know, living with somebody. Do you want to work on this show with me? I was like, yeah, great, you know, and as a producer, sort of, like role. And then, and then yeah. And then one thing came to another, and then it was like, Oh, you know, we got an opening. And, you know, do you want to work? in the office? You want? Sure. Yeah. So that's how that's how it happened. Yeah, it was more of a freelance gig that became a full time gig. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. I mean, the thing about is, I think, Erica, I don't know about you. I mean, you reinvented yourself, in a way, obviously. But it's like, you know, I thought for sure, when you quit, that something would come to me and gone, you know, you've always wanted to be I don't know, a salt miner. I don't know something stupid, right? Doesn't happen. Oh, it didn't happen to me anyway. And I'm like, I thought, Oh, you know, what? clear my head. And they'll be like, you know, what I've always wanted to do is this, and we're really adamant was like, No, I don't want to want to do

1:04:27

so. Maybe broadcasting is your thing.

1:04:30

Perhaps? Perhaps Indeed, I didn't want it to be when I left. I wanted to do something else completely different.

1:04:37

But here we are. I

1:04:39

didn't think I tried hard enough. Yeah, I didn't try hard enough. Probably. Okay.

1:04:42

If I were to ask you, what did you learn at much that you still use today?

1:04:50

two things. One, I would learn the Yeah, you should probably go with the first idea that you have and do it and she would have And, and don't step back and think about it. Because if you start to think about it, you won't do it. And that's what we used to do was because especially with live TV, it was like, we got to come up with something now and do it, right. And if we'd like, we've got literally, like a pack of videos, which was like, What 12 to 15 minutes, we got to come up with something now and we got to do it. And it worked for the most part, because you're, you know, your heads in it. So don't double think yourself, or whatever your question is. You're overthinking. So thank you, thank you for being here. I don't know what the other thing would be. Living would be like, you know, what you get surrounded by the people that always surround yourself with people that you think will do, not the best people for the job, maybe. But the people that you think, are, have got that in them that they can do it, meaning that you know what, you might not be the best technical person in your job. But as long as you've got that attitude, and you've got that little thing, I don't know what that little thing is, but that's about the only thing because I was thinking, you know, the people that we worked with, honestly, you know, went the best of the jobs, but they were the best for the job, you know, that, that the job that they were in, they were much, you know, like they fit the personality of the place. So it's not all just about experience and skill. It's also about just having the right fit, and having the right mindset. I think that's about the only two things, probably a lot more once we hang up, you know, I'm gonna go Oh, I shouldn't say that.

1:06:37

You have an opportunity now that I'm sure you've been waiting for for years and years, you get to you get to interview me, you get to ask me one question. And I'll be stringing all these questions together. And I will do a show about all the V J's, interviewing me. So is it thing that you would ask me that now that I've since I've pummeled you with questions?

1:07:07

Okay, let me Can I ask you a couple of questions we'll see. And you can pick the best one. Okay. Okay. You were speaking about? earlier on, we were talking about, you know, you being new being on it, and everything else. When you think back about that, what would you do to change what you did on it when you were a kid? Like, what I mean by that is, like, when you watch yourself back, and let's face? Well, actually, we're never the best. What do you think you would have changed to make yourself better that you didn't do that make sense?

1:07:48

Yes. And, in fact, I'm going to answer it differently with a story that I think you'll appreciate. Part of the problem when I was on air is that I was all over the place. I didn't know. It didn't know how to tell a story as a broadcaster. And as you and I discussed, there was no help from the producers or john Martin, or, you know, no one coached me, one person did. If you remember a guy named Bobby Gale, who worked at polygram Records. He came up to me in a bar and said, Can I can I give you some advice? And I was like, I'll take anything buddy helped me out. And he said, You actually don't know how to tell a story. And I said, explain to me what you mean. Because I'm always open. And I'm curious, I like to learn. And he said, when when you're on camera, when you're a broadcaster, you have to tell a story from beginning, middle, and end. So when I first started, I would just sort of vomit out information. But it didn't have a point to it. Because no one told me that you had to I just give information. When he explained to me that you have to tell stories, that your information, each of the throws, or whatever that I was doing, is a story. So tell a story from beginning, middle to end. And that was I probably had been doing that job for probably a couple of years. And I think that was the turning point where I started to become a little more polished, because they were my throws had a point to them. Right. And that I think that's part of what was missing. And how to how to, you know, act cool when you weren't feeling cool inside.

1:09:46

Right? No, you know what, that's an interesting thing to say. And you know what, we should have been a little bit more on the ball on that. When I think about it, you're right. I think what it was to was the And there, we were all I guess, struggling to our own little thing. And perhaps, yeah, perhaps, you know, in the future, like, I got to think you got to think a little more about that kind of thing as like the people that are around you, and what they're going through, you know, that old thing is like, you know, you're going through some problems. Yeah, everybody is. So yeah, you're right, we probably should have been a little more aware of that.

1:10:26

Not you, though, because you were the same age as me. You were not

1:10:30

knowing I know, giving

1:10:32

advice. It was the older people, the ones who, you know, technically would have had more experience.

1:10:39

But yeah,

1:10:39

I the other side of the coin is, I stuck with it. I persevered.

1:10:46

I loved it.

1:10:47

I learned the chops. And I now can carry on a good podcast. Because of

1:10:55

that that was going to be by next question actually is like, what do you would you have done differently? After you left much music? Would you have done something different on your path to success? if you will? What would you have done a little differently? Like, would you have maybe gone into a job job, as opposed to doing your own thing? Like, when you left? How did you feel like what was like? Because obviously, you were on air? You know, you've only got really two options now, right? One is, you know, yeah, you can get into producing or whatever else, or you can be on air. What was what were your what were your feelings when you left? Like, what did you feel scared? And what were you going to do?

1:11:41

When I worked at much? I don't know if you remember this, but I was told by several people that I was replaceable. So I knew that one day, someone would probably ask me to leave. So I was making plans the whole time. So that's why I had my hat company and my song, right?

1:12:00

Yeah, no, I remember you. You very entrepreneurial. Yeah, yeah.

1:12:05

So when I left, you know, you can sit and wait. People hired me, I did several shows over five or six years life network and discovery. tbo did lots of stuff. But I always felt like it was important to be entrepreneurial, because someday the phone's going to stop ringing. And it did. Especially when I had kids, people completely lost interest in me. Because at that point, I was officially old. not interesting, mainstream, no more rock and roll. So my career was pretty dead. And rather than moan about it, I just got to work and immerse myself in the world of parenting. So if I would have done anything differently, I would say no, but I will say today, as I'm older, that I don't really have a pension. I really, still am, am an entrepreneur and I still kind of eat what I kill and share. I wish that I had a job where someone paid my paid me regularly for the work that I did. Absolutely. I wish that there's I'm not going to hide the fact that it's, it's a tough grind to be your own boss and run your own businesses. But I think that I'm better creatively. And I feel more fulfilled. And I'm proud of myself that I've managed to reinvent so many times, and I can still pay the bills. So I couldn't do anything differently. But yeah, sure. I wish I had a little paycheck no and debt now and then that I didn't have to work for for sure. But that's not that wasn't the future of my life.

1:13:49

Yeah, well, I'm not blowing smoke up. Well, I'm Chris, you know, I'm not that kind of guy. But no, I am quite proud of you and what you've done, because I, you really did reinvent yourself and become something that was completely different, really, than television. I know. It's the same sort of thing. But you know, and I was like, wow, yeah, look at you. I knew, you know, you're still putting food on the table and keeping a roof on your head. And I know, you got a husband and you know, no slouch. But yeah, but still. No, that's saying, No, you're I think you've done amazing. Thanks. sighs So, you know, and you know, I wouldn't tell you that.

1:14:28

That's why I asked you to be on this podcast, because I needed this validation 30 years later to hear you say that for you to move on now.

1:14:38

That's right. Yes. Because that little English fucking decades. Yeah. One last last question. One last question.

1:14:47

Oh, okay.

1:14:48

Go ahead. Keep Yummy Mummy. What I mean by that is the word, the name, because you know, it's kind of like now we're going to reinvent psycho. Oh, sorry, I noticed that yes,

1:15:03

about seven years ago, we change the name to Why mc.ca? And you're right. That's a good question.

1:15:12

Sorry.

1:15:13

Yes, we

1:15:15

sorry. Yeah, that's your business. Right. So I just wanted to, you know, cuz you know what? Books trendy, then is not trendy now. And you know, you see all the companies do it, but I just wanted to, but now we see I'm out of the loop. So now my question is like, shut the fuck up. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

1:15:35

Thank you. sigh I'm going to say my goodbyes to everyone who's listening to us to remember if you are listening to the show, and you enjoyed it. My God, Simon Evans, he deserves five stars, don't you think? So it would be great. If you could review the show. Leave a comment. spread the word about reinvention of the vj. And you can even have a call in number 833-972-7272 side Did you know that people can actually phone in just like the old fashioned days and they can leave a message. And we'll play it on the show with questions or memories of much music 833972727 to thank you, Simon so much for joining me today. And it was very cathartic. But I love that you're still a curmudgeon. It's so awesome.

1:16:31

Thank you, Erica.

1:16:32

You're so welcome. And for those of you who enjoyed this show, hopefully you'll join me again next week with another episode of reinvention of the vj. Here's to living a life filled with music meaning, and many reinventions.

1:16:46

Thanks for listening, follow Erica Ehm reinvention of the vj podcast Subscribe and follow more episodes. Click to reinvention of the vj.com podcast produced in collaboration with Steve Anthony productions editing and coordination the flower Communications Inc. Copyright 2020

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